City Council Regular Meeting
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Transcript
| So I know. | 00:00:02 | |
| Roll. | 00:00:07 | |
| All right, today is March 13th, 2024. The time is 6:00 PM and I'm going to go ahead and start the Vineyard City Council meeting. | 00:00:10 | |
| Council Member Holdaway will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance and an invocation. | 00:00:17 | |
| Please stand. | 00:00:27 | |
| I pledge allegiance to. | 00:00:31 | |
| United States of America. | 00:00:34 | |
| One nation under God, indivisible, with strong. | 00:00:38 | |
| Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we bow our heads before the citizens of Vineyard, grateful for the wonderful earth | 00:00:55 | |
| that we live in and the opportunity we have to come and. | 00:01:00 | |
| As a government body. | 00:01:07 | |
| Work together and find solutions to represent the people of Vineyard. We pray today that we might be speak clearly with great tone | 00:01:10 | |
| and a tone of togetherness to be able to work through our issues and problems with the city. We pray for the citizens of this city | 00:01:17 | |
| and also for the leadership of it. And these things we pray for humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. All right, our first | 00:01:23 | |
| agenda item for our work session is our Transportation Master Plan update. | 00:01:30 | |
| We have health engineering with us. We also are fortunate enough to have our trustee with go ahead. | 00:01:37 | |
| Presentation. Oh, just kidding. I was jumping right into our work session, but I totally forgot our Department of Environmental | 00:01:46 | |
| Quality. Forgive me. Jalen Cage and Jason, we talked about before the meeting how excited we were to have you here. We'll invite | 00:01:52 | |
| you guys up. I don't know who's Paige? OK Page will be presenting an update on our Division of Environmental Quality process and | 00:01:59 | |
| kind of talk about the north side of the vineyard a little bit. And then I'll go ahead and introduce you guys and give you the | 00:02:05 | |
| same warm welcome. | 00:02:12 | |
| Well, thank you for having us. My name is Paige Bolton. I'm the program manager for the corrective action section for the Division | 00:02:20 | |
| of Waste Management and Radiation Control at the EQ. And I also have with me today Jason Olson, he's the project manager for the | 00:02:27 | |
| Anderson Geneva project and also Jalen Knutson, she's the Assistant Director for the division. And thank you for having us. We | 00:02:34 | |
| were asked to come today to talk about. | 00:02:41 | |
| One site and specific one site, the solid Waste Management. Or as we like to cure evenly, say, schmooze. | 00:02:49 | |
| Through SI Five at the Anderson Geneva site. | 00:02:56 | |
| So just a little bit about how I laid out the presentation for tonight. The two specific questions that I was asked was what is | 00:03:01 | |
| our corrective action process like how do we evaluate site from your terminus site is appropriate for redevelopment, especially in | 00:03:08 | |
| this place for residential use. So I'll talk about that process just generally and then I will talk to specifically about SI Five | 00:03:15 | |
| and the entire investigation process from beginning to end. | 00:03:23 | |
| And how the status of it stay? | 00:03:30 | |
| So Rick or corrective action, RICKRA is the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act and that is the EPA, United States EPA process | 00:03:35 | |
| that we follow. And it's a set of rules and regulations codified both in 40 CFR Code of Federal Regulation and also is adopted by | 00:03:42 | |
| us under our Utah Administrative Code that we follow. And the record corrective action process answers three basic questions. The | 00:03:49 | |
| first one is. | 00:03:57 | |
| How do we know a site or an area has been contaminated? | 00:04:04 | |
| And how we do this is through a series of one, we discover a site and we suspect there's contamination. So then we do a full site | 00:04:08 | |
| investigation where we actually go out and collect samples of soil, groundwater, surface water, whatever the suspected impacted | 00:04:16 | |
| media may be. And we do that to determine nature and extent of contamination. And by nature, I mean what are the chemicals that | 00:04:24 | |
| are present in the various media, so in this case soil. | 00:04:32 | |
| An extent is. | 00:04:41 | |
| What is the extent of contamination? We look at that both laterally, so across an area, but also vertically, the depth of | 00:04:42 | |
| contamination. | 00:04:47 | |
| So once then we decide that it has been impacted, we go to #2 how do we determine if a cleanup is needed? So we've determined that | 00:04:52 | |
| there is contamination. So now we have to assess the magnitude of that contamination. And we do that through the risk assessment | 00:05:00 | |
| process. And that is both a human health and an ecological risk assessment. | 00:05:07 | |
| And under our program that process follows the administrative rule 315101. And so we will do a screening level risk assessment to | 00:05:15 | |
| evaluate what the both carcinogenic and non carcinogenic risk risks may be for the site. And then based on that we can feed into | 00:05:25 | |
| the primary question of three, how do we know residual, residual levels of contamination are safe to allow reuse at the site? | 00:05:35 | |
| So based on their risk assessment, we know the magnitude of the impact. We can look at what the end use of the site will be. In | 00:05:46 | |
| this specific case that was residential, but from a generic perspective under the record corrective process, sometimes | 00:05:54 | |
| commercials, OK, industrial. So we we look at the various end use and assess the risks according to that end use. And so based on | 00:06:02 | |
| that if the risks fall outside acceptable range for the end use, then we do the corrective action. | 00:06:11 | |
| And that can be something as simple as a scoop and haul of soil. It could mean more in depth treatment systems. And so once then | 00:06:19 | |
| the corrective action has been completed, we go back, we resample the area and then those data become our confirmation data. And | 00:06:28 | |
| then we rerun a final risk assessment using the confirmation data. And then based on the confirmation data, we can safely then | 00:06:36 | |
| assess what the end use can be and if it's protective of. | 00:06:45 | |
| The goal for the site. So that's the general process. | 00:06:53 | |
| So now I'm going to explain how we implemented that across News SI 5. | 00:06:57 | |
| And I apologize, our figures are from older reports, though they're not the best of quality and I don't have a pointer, so bear | 00:07:04 | |
| with me on this too. So specifically in question is smooth SI 5. That was the treated water cooling pond and pipeline and you can | 00:07:10 | |
| see on this figure. | 00:07:17 | |
| The original red. | 00:07:25 | |
| Modified triangle with SI 5. Then in 2007, SI five was divided into SI 5A and SI5B and the the main road you can see is the | 00:07:28 | |
| vineyard connector curving around the 800 N and just a little bit to the north of that and all of the southern part of pass the | 00:07:39 | |
| vineyard connector is SI 5A and then the northern part was SI 5B. | 00:07:50 | |
| And I'm going to talk primarily about those, but I also want to mention as shown on this figure, SA5C is on the top right hand | 00:08:01 | |
| side of that triangle. Thank you. And that was split off from SI 5B for the Utah Transit corridor. And so that was also evaluated | 00:08:09 | |
| separately and I will talk about that one. And then the very northern part, you see a little half circle in the the very top that | 00:08:18 | |
| became SI 5D as in Delta. | 00:08:26 | |
| And a lot of what I talk about when we excavated soils and sediment and 5A, they were stockpiled up in 5D. And just so it's very | 00:08:35 | |
| clear to everybody here, SI 5D has not been closed. It still requires additional investigation. And so we're really going to talk | 00:08:43 | |
| about SA 5, AB and C. | 00:08:51 | |
| So Si 5A. | 00:09:02 | |
| Sorry these kind of got a little out of. | 00:09:07 | |
| Border, but that's OK, I can talk to him anyway. | 00:09:11 | |
| So SI 5A was originally investigated in 2005. | 00:09:15 | |
| And based on that investigation, they sampled soil and those were the old ponds. So they sampled the berms, they sampled the | 00:09:22 | |
| bottoms, they sampled all over the ponds. And it was determined that there was contamination above risk assessment levels, both | 00:09:30 | |
| industrial levels, a receptor level and residential levels. So at that time they decided to do corrective action because they | 00:09:38 | |
| wanted a residential use for the property and so removals were conducted. | 00:09:45 | |
| And they actually removed approximately 215,000 cubic yards of impacted sediment and soil. And they also had done sampling to | 00:09:54 | |
| sample the sediment native soil interface. And so they also scrape some of the native soil interface as part of the corrective | 00:10:04 | |
| action removals. Following that they did a. | 00:10:13 | |
| Risk assessment and it showed that the residual contamination was below. | 00:10:24 | |
| Be both carcinogenic risk and non carcinogenic risk for residential use and in 2008 the site was closed under no further action | 00:10:30 | |
| and per our rules under 315101. That means that the residential risks are below the lowest end of the range and for carcinogenic | 00:10:39 | |
| risk and below the target level for non carcinogenic risk. There was also ecological evaluation and an ecological waiver | 00:10:49 | |
| indicating there were no ecological pathways. | 00:10:58 | |
| Present and SO151A was 5 A was closed clean. | 00:11:07 | |
| However. | 00:11:14 | |
| Later, as part of a transfer of the property to a new owner, the new owner wanted to do some different development and the Ora, | 00:11:16 | |
| the oil reclamation area material. They did some, you know, technical analysis on that material and determined it was perfect for | 00:11:25 | |
| Rd. base and under structures. And so I'm going to jump to this little picture here. I call this my Nessie. | 00:11:35 | |
| Kind of looks like monster. So this or a material was placed into both 5A and 5B and the body of Nestle, as I like to call it, is | 00:11:45 | |
| kind of where the UTA station and parking lot is. And then the neck and Nesty appears to have been like a proposed road or | 00:11:53 | |
| connector. | 00:12:01 | |
| So the problem with the placement of the RA material was that the Ora material had levels of contamination that would have | 00:12:09 | |
| violated the no further action. And so because this material was placed into 5A and 5B, the land use controls would have had to | 00:12:17 | |
| have been placed on these properties. So those might have been industrial restriction, things like that, since they chose not to | 00:12:25 | |
| go that route. | 00:12:33 | |
| I don't know all the land use controls that would have been required, but rather the the owners wanted to redevelop and wanted | 00:12:41 | |
| free use of this property and so. | 00:12:46 | |
| Going back up and 2018 they decided to re excavate the OR material from 5A. So they they excavated the orange body in 5A and they | 00:12:53 | |
| resample that area. | 00:13:02 | |
| And. | 00:13:11 | |
| Redid the risk assessments to show that upon removal of this or a material that has been placed in the area, it is now again | 00:13:14 | |
| satisfactorily removed. That the site again now qualified for what we call corrective action complete without controls. And that | 00:13:21 | |
| designation just means that it's equivalent to no further action. But because we did additional corrective action, we placed | 00:13:29 | |
| material and removed it, it now gets the designation of corrective action complete without controls. | 00:13:36 | |
| So the material that was originally excavated from 5A, if you can see on the figure on the left in the very top, that is where | 00:13:45 | |
| that material was stockpiled. | 00:13:50 | |
| And that material is still up there and has not been closed. It still requires investigation and corrective action. So when we | 00:13:56 | |
| talk about getting residential and NFA status or corrective action complete without control status for 5A and 5B, we are strictly | 00:14:04 | |
| talking 5A and 5B that we recognize that there are areas that require additional work before it can be reused for something else. | 00:14:13 | |
| SO5B was this the northern part and this is the neck of Nessie? | 00:14:24 | |
| And in 5B, again, it was originally investigated in 2005 and it was determined to have excess risk for residential use. However, | 00:14:30 | |
| this site wasn't actually remediated in two until 2018. It just wasn't a priority as far as reuse. So in 2018, they came in based | 00:14:40 | |
| on the sampling data excavated. | 00:14:50 | |
| The sediments from the old pond that exceeded the risk, but at the same time they backfilled with the Ora material and so. | 00:15:00 | |
| This one again, so almost as soon as they backfilled, they started re excavating it. And so in 2018 they they excavated not only | 00:15:12 | |
| the sediment from the pond, but the Ora and this material was stockpiled in that faint green area to the north. | 00:15:22 | |
| Of the red and that material is still there and again that has not BeenVerified clean. It's not verified for reuse. It is still | 00:15:33 | |
| pending investigation. So that is outside of this residential area. So following the removal of the original sediments in the pond | 00:15:40 | |
| and the Ora pond material and the Ora that was in the pond, confirmation data were collected in the risk assessment was redone and | 00:15:48 | |
| in 2020. | 00:15:55 | |
| This site was confirmed to meet both residential and ecological risk for and suitable for residential and that was closed in 2020, | 00:16:03 | |
| again with a corrective action complete without controls. | 00:16:09 | |
| In the B section. Not the green though, correct? Just the beta, so not the proposed SI 5D, not that area and not the green, so | 00:16:17 | |
| just that bottom. | 00:16:23 | |
| 7-8 the red triangle. | 00:16:30 | |
| OK. So 5C was the Utah transit right away quarter and again this area was sampled in 2005 for determining nature and extensive | 00:16:34 | |
| contamination. But early on it was known that this would be kind of parceled off as part of the quarter is along those the tracks | 00:16:43 | |
| there and so that area was excavated. | 00:16:51 | |
| And the sediments removed and confirmation samples were collected and it also met residential risk, even though it's not being | 00:17:01 | |
| used for residential purposes right now. It's a corridor. | 00:17:07 | |
| It did meet clean closure, no further action and that was closed in 2009. | 00:17:13 | |
| It's also important to note that when we say we clean clothes both in 5B and 5A, the residential risk levels that were calculated | 00:17:20 | |
| using the confirmation data were orders of magnitude below the acceptable levels, so. | 00:17:28 | |
| There, there's it's not like it was a question. It was clearly sufficiently remediated to acceptable residential use. | 00:17:38 | |
| So conclusion to summarizing that was a lot of information. I apologize so. | 00:17:49 | |
| The I'm going to go back up to the, the this picture. So to be clear, so in five a, the southern half of 5A that is South of the | 00:17:58 | |
| Vineyard corridor, no Ora material was ever placed in that area. So the original clean closure NFA always held for that southern | 00:18:07 | |
| part that is currently developed right now. | 00:18:15 | |
| All of the material, both the original sediments that were in the pond as well as the place or a material have been removed and | 00:18:25 | |
| both by a 5B and 5C to residential levels equivalent to no further action or corrective action complete without control. | 00:18:35 | |
| Human health and ecological risk assessments confirmed that and. | 00:18:46 | |
| They they can be used for residential use right now without restrictions. | 00:18:52 | |
| So I'm going to jump into this. | 00:18:59 | |
| Information you're, you're free to e-mail me any questions, but if you have any questions, I'm, I'm happy to answer them. Great. | 00:19:02 | |
| Any questions from the council. | 00:19:07 | |
| What is the longer term plan for? | 00:19:16 | |
| Those top parts were all the contaminated materials. Still are. | 00:19:19 | |
| So the longer term plan will be just like this, they will be investigated, they will be sampled, the record corrective process, so | 00:19:23 | |
| they will be sampled, we'll evaluate the extent and the nature. Contamination risk assessments will be done depending on the | 00:19:30 | |
| ultimate land use to evaluate what needs to be done to ensure they're protective of what the future use will be. | 00:19:37 | |
| Great. A common question that our residents have is they worry about how deep you can go to see how clean it, how deep you could | 00:19:46 | |
| dig down and see how clean. So as part of the the person extensive contamination, we did vertical as well. So it is cleaned with | 00:19:53 | |
| no restrictions on vertical. | 00:20:00 | |
| Vertical going up or vertical going down? | 00:20:08 | |
| Yeah. So this is the, your house is here. This is this way. | 00:20:11 | |
| We have surface and vertical. Do you have different questions? Go ahead, Sir. No, go ahead. So are you familiar with the Daybreak, | 00:20:20 | |
| the Kennecott tailings issue that they had a few years back because it had been cleared by the EPA and it came back and caused | 00:20:27 | |
| huge problems because the tailings destroyed their foundations. Are you familiar with that? Can you explain that because that's a | 00:20:34 | |
| huge concern here like. | 00:20:41 | |
| It could be clean, but. | 00:20:49 | |
| But maybe not so clean. So how did that clear the EPA and then come back to further problems? OK. | 00:20:51 | |
| Dave Wright was known to be built on tailings and was known to have certain restrictions in place to be protective. 5A and 5B are | 00:21:01 | |
| not built on tailings and we have both horizontal and vertical profiles of the contamination, so we know. | 00:21:11 | |
| That there is not residual buried material under 5:00 AM five feet. | 00:21:22 | |
| Other different level. It doesn't answer your question, Sir. Yeah, I'm just curious. How deep? No, it's OK. I'm just wondering how | 00:21:28 | |
| deep did you guys actually go, do you know? | 00:21:34 | |
| Yeah, they did boring I I don't. | 00:21:42 | |
| Know the depth. So one of the things we do look at is vertical profile. So in order to confirm that we have extent of vertical | 00:21:45 | |
| contamination you either we have to show both clearly decreasing concentrations and or not detects. | 00:21:54 | |
| That I would have if you want to know the actual depth of the borings, please e-mail me and I can look that up. I don't have that | 00:22:03 | |
| off the top of my head. I'm sorry. That would be great. Can you put your. | 00:22:08 | |
| Hey, what's, what's the depth? | 00:22:15 | |
| Yeah, but at least 10 to 20 feet because they did sample groundwater and that was not impacted where they got groundwater. OK, But | 00:22:20 | |
| I don't know the exact. That's perfect. That was going to be my question with the groundwater level and it's depending on it. | 00:22:26 | |
| Perfect. Thank you. OK, thank you, Paige. You're welcome. I had some questions. | 00:22:32 | |
| I'm very concerned just because I've lived here my whole life and. | 00:22:41 | |
| We had a dairy farm on the South side of of Vineyard and we were financed by Geneva Steel or or paid as farmers for wind when it | 00:22:46 | |
| blew over and it would it would blow the chemical over and all the dairy farmers were in the 1970s for paid for that and wind is | 00:22:54 | |
| what brought those over there were in the 1972 windstorm. So we have these piles on the north of the residential that are sitting | 00:23:02 | |
| there that are not clean. | 00:23:11 | |
| And then are going to be moved and picked up and we did have a few dust storms like five or six years ago. So if we're going to | 00:23:20 | |
| build these structures right next to it. | 00:23:24 | |
| You know, there were some harmful smells and stuff. | 00:23:30 | |
| How do we know if we're going to build even closer now that when they do that the wind wouldn't blow or whatnot? | 00:23:33 | |
| Because I know we were taught my grandfather died because of cancer and you know, our families were all many farmers were paid off | 00:23:40 | |
| for the bad things that Geneva still did. And it scares the heck out of us, right? Like living downwind and stuff. So I. | 00:23:49 | |
| Is that like, is it OK? Like hey that this property is adjacent and it could blow on? | 00:23:58 | |
| You just say, hey, we can build up next to it or we will dig out with people living next to it. Like how does that work out? | 00:24:05 | |
| Question a very legitimate concern? Yeah, absolutely. | 00:24:15 | |
| I think I would like to think a little bit because I wasn't prepared for that one, but that's my first one. I would like you to | 00:24:20 | |
| e-mail me so we can come up with a solid answer for you because there are things we do, but it's, it's a legitimate concern. Well, | 00:24:26 | |
| I mean, maybe it's because I'm more terrified, but going to Vineyard Elementary, we would be shut down on downwind days. So they | 00:24:33 | |
| would look at when the wind would blow. | 00:24:39 | |
| And they would shut off the air conditioning and we would, you know, hunker down and, and we didn't know a lot in the 1990s about, | 00:24:45 | |
| you know, what was going on. And, and so with that having been open right there, it's like. | 00:24:51 | |
| It just terrifies me. And then and then, you know, part of the compensation of the farmers where we'd have some really strange | 00:24:58 | |
| abnormal things. I can, you can go to the Daily Herald and see the Holdaway 6 legged cows that grew off of this and it was very | 00:25:04 | |
| strange and. | 00:25:09 | |
| You know, so groundwater is clean, but I know in the 1970s, eighties and 90s, all of these farmers were compensated miles away. I | 00:25:16 | |
| mean, Holdaway Rd. is 400 S and we're talking 800 N And, you know, in our wells, our deep water wells, we're getting that back | 00:25:23 | |
| then. So we don't want to scare anyone, but we're still very, you know, it's like, well, we're going to put home. I know the | 00:25:31 | |
| developer comes and says, hey, we're going to change from. | 00:25:38 | |
| Industrial, whatever, but we're going to now put homes it out of Lugos. Whoa, OK. And then my number two thing is? | 00:25:46 | |
| I work nationally in measurements as the measurements that you use. | 00:25:55 | |
| You say that it's a federal standard, but Utah deviates and creates kind of its own standard, you said. | 00:25:59 | |
| No, we've been we are in agreement state and we haven't OK, so you do you adopt it that makes me feel comfortable. So there's no | 00:26:06 | |
| variation. My my other question is, is. | 00:26:10 | |
| When you turn this over and say hey, this is developable. | 00:26:16 | |
| Is the city then taking the risk financially like in the example of? | 00:26:22 | |
| Daybreak with Utah City, are they signing contracts with anybody that if if something does happen and moving into Utah City's | 00:26:29 | |
| property that they would be able to go? Are they are they signing something that would get rid of the like indemnify them? | 00:26:37 | |
| Since this is plain closure, I would say no, but I would need to that's, that's outside our realm because that is a sale and that | 00:26:47 | |
| is part of the the legal negotiation. Because this is plain closure, it's not like there's residual contamination on the property | 00:26:55 | |
| where there's an environmental covenant on the property that ties to the land. Since this is getting clean closure, there isn't | 00:27:02 | |
| that so any sale agreement. | 00:27:09 | |
| On a clean clothes, it would be between the fire and the seller. It'd be just like a buying a house. There's no disclosure. | 00:27:17 | |
| There's no can the city require a public like a a disclosure? | 00:27:23 | |
| On that, do they allow, do they allow for a city to step up and say, hey, just so you know, you're moving? Because I, I run into | 00:27:30 | |
| people all the time that that don't know that they moved on to a brownfield. This is not brown previous previous. I know, but it's | 00:27:37 | |
| it it's scary because you have so many brownfields that have been cleaned and then we science gets better and you realize that oh | 00:27:43 | |
| this it went somewhere or another. And so it's like. | 00:27:50 | |
| Is there? | 00:27:57 | |
| This excellent question that. | 00:27:59 | |
| Just to make sure that we're protecting everyone. | 00:28:01 | |
| Yeah, I just had a conversation. | 00:28:05 | |
| With someone, yeah, she'll kick me if I'm going out. Please. I had a conversation with someone that was purchasing a home | 00:28:07 | |
| absolutely not in this area in the Salt Lake area. And I asked them, oh great, where? And they gave me the address and that | 00:28:14 | |
| immediately sent off oh because they were in an area that had been under a true brownfields program. And the question I had was | 00:28:22 | |
| does your real estate agent do due diligence because. | 00:28:30 | |
| On any commercial transaction. | 00:28:38 | |
| We definitely have a due diligence program and that is where where some commercial entity is purchasing property, they will do due | 00:28:41 | |
| diligence and that is where they go and look at the whole site history unfortunately while everything is public record. | 00:28:50 | |
| I don't necessarily know that individuals do that, even though they can. | 00:29:00 | |
| So I, I, I can't help you there. I mean, the city can definitely everything that we've done here is public, you know, publicly | 00:29:07 | |
| available. So if the city chooses to have information on the area, that's up to the city, but we don't require it. Would the city | 00:29:15 | |
| get sued or this or the developer, I don't know that be able to say, hey, you're not allowed to, you know that it's clean. You're. | 00:29:24 | |
| Scaring people away, but for the good of hey, here is the history. | 00:29:34 | |
| Think that's a liability between the city and their their voices? Have you looked into that? Do you know? | 00:29:39 | |
| Just protecting people. | 00:29:46 | |
| We'd have to look at each individual property and kind of understand what the city's liability profile would be if we were to put | 00:29:48 | |
| that into place. The general principle on property law is that environmental conditions cannot be discharged when you sell | 00:29:55 | |
| property, so. | 00:30:01 | |
| People would have remedies going back through the chain of ownership, not just. | 00:30:09 | |
| To the person who's selling them the property. | 00:30:14 | |
| I'd I'd be hesitant as a city to interfere with the state law construct on that. I think remedies exist for individual owners. | 00:30:17 | |
| The disclosure requirements an interesting one. We could look at that. | 00:30:27 | |
| I I think you I think the answer you've got from the EQ is probably the best. | 00:30:34 | |
| Which is? It's in the chain of title. | 00:30:40 | |
| And all homeowners or prospective homeowners would be well advised to look at the title report and take it seriously. | 00:30:44 | |
| I know a lot of people here have never seen the animals that came off of this property, but for living here for 30 years, it's | 00:30:52 | |
| terrifying, you know, and I know it's clean and I know they say, hey, it is. And I, I good faith of what, what is and where it | 00:30:57 | |
| goes. But like, you know, I, I go to national DC and, and, and on the brownfields, they come every year and they go, hey, we | 00:31:02 | |
| thought we were good. | 00:31:07 | |
| And this happened and that water spring came up and what we thought, you know, from 1940 to 1999, we, our plan at Geneva Steel was | 00:31:12 | |
| to put the crappiest of stuff Outback, put a fence around it and let that water seep into the ground year after year after year. | 00:31:20 | |
| And that's all it did, right. And so where our wells Holdaway property are 250 feet down into the aquifer, that affected us and it | 00:31:28 | |
| affected our cows just drinking the wells. And so it, it's terrifying to just go. | 00:31:36 | |
| As a good faith neighbor, it's like. | 00:31:44 | |
| Putting a sign up and saying, do you know, as a, as a policy just, and I'm not saying to scare them, but just, and people do take | 00:31:49 | |
| those risks, like I take risks all the time. You know, I drink Mountain Dew, you know, it's not good for me. So, but at least they | 00:31:54 | |
| go through and do that. | 00:31:59 | |
| Can I just, can I just have a quick follow-up? Yeah, I just want to recognize that it is, it is scary, right? There's things that | 00:32:04 | |
| have happened in the past. Yeah, I think. | 00:32:08 | |
| And I don't want to discount any wind blowing from the stacks that we've heard the areas we've created, but I think a lot of what | 00:32:12 | |
| happened previously in that downwind was caused by the state. | 00:32:17 | |
| Right, right where they were running. Yeah, so. | 00:32:22 | |
| Look into any potential issues that might come from wind blown things like that from those areas that have been created with the | 00:32:26 | |
| piles. But some of that I think has been mitigated. Thank goodness, right And taking down the site completely and I think we've | 00:32:32 | |
| addressed the along with the attorney the the site specific. Unfortunately we are not legally able to get in in the real estate | 00:32:39 | |
| transaction. We have to get out of that. We meet here it's reported we make sure that it's safe for human health and the | 00:32:45 | |
| environment and. | 00:32:52 | |
| That's that's where our regulations and but I will say we are conscious of that as we do this, we know that there's residents that | 00:32:58 | |
| will repair so. | 00:33:03 | |
| She was hopping her field, so she took another look at this before we came, even though it was from over 10 years ago. She took | 00:33:09 | |
| another look and it's still protected. So my last confirmation that we did the right thing, then it's still safe. No. My last | 00:33:15 | |
| question is on the settling ponds on the West side of the road. I know the machines are no longer they're still there and they're | 00:33:21 | |
| still sitting in there. | 00:33:27 | |
| You know, that's, that's a settling pun. The water is, you know, there's still water in it. And so people look at that and they | 00:34:07 | |
| go, you know, I don't, they don't, they just don't know what it is. And before there was not only barbed wire, but there was razor | 00:34:14 | |
| wire like a prison. It was wrapped around that thing. And so. | 00:34:21 | |
| I'm just. | 00:34:28 | |
| And I know it's an adjacent property, but then they're going to have to clean it with hundreds of thousands of people right next | 00:34:31 | |
| to it. | 00:34:34 | |
| Yeah, addressing your concern about a UN. | 00:34:39 | |
| Spence, Snoop. Yeah, Yeah. And then we can think about it and address it for you. OK. Thanks. Is there a timeline for when this | 00:34:45 | |
| whole area will be complete as far as you're concerned? When will the piles be handled? | 00:34:52 | |
| I don't. Yeah. Money. | 00:35:03 | |
| OK. And so since it's clean, they can dig as much as they want, as deep as they want right now in the clean areas? | 00:35:10 | |
| 10. | 00:35:18 | |
| They can, obviously, they probably won't because if they get close to shallow groundwater, they're not going to have stability and | 00:35:20 | |
| some of the technical properties for the development that they might need. But there is no environmental restriction, right? I | 00:35:27 | |
| knew they couldn't dig that deep of footing down. | 00:35:33 | |
| OK. Thank you. Are there any other questions? | 00:35:40 | |
| No, we appreciate this and we'll make sure we follow up with you guys and then we'll publish it so. | 00:35:45 | |
| The Council. | 00:35:52 | |
| Gov By all means, if you have any additional questions that come up as you talk about this, please. | 00:35:53 | |
| E-mail me and we will think about it and get back to you. Thank you so much, Paige. Thank you all. All right. | 00:36:01 | |
| We will. We appreciate that. And now we will go ahead and move on to our transportation master plan. I have you guys going in the | 00:36:08 | |
| beginning, but we finally made it there. And I was going to say we also have Trustee Acerson from Utah Transit Authority. I don't | 00:36:13 | |
| know if you want to introduce yourself. You're not giving the presentation. So yeah, come on up. Just thought you guys would like | 00:36:18 | |
| to meet him. | 00:36:22 | |
| I felt, I feel a little bit like I'm coming home because I live in Linden, was mayor of Linden for several years. I actually hired | 00:36:30 | |
| you the first time for the Utah Lake Commission. And Jamie, I've worked with him at UTA and I know several of you and. | 00:36:38 | |
| It feels good here. Then here's a good place to live. So you've got good people and they understand the stewardship that you've | 00:36:47 | |
| entrusted them with and. | 00:36:51 | |
| I'm just happy to be working with your mayor. She serves on our local Advisory Council as well. | 00:36:57 | |
| Always has good input and provides great discussion as we try to address all of the incoming people that are moving to Utah and | 00:37:03 | |
| being born in Utah. It's both. But my role as a trustee is I represent Utah and Twilight counties. Those are two of the fastest | 00:37:09 | |
| growing areas in the state of Utah. | 00:37:16 | |
| And we just today in our board meeting passed our long range transit plan and that's online. So if you want to look at that, | 00:37:23 | |
| that's 2050. | 00:37:29 | |
| Some of us won't be around in 20-50, but. | 00:37:37 | |
| Now is the time to look at it and you can make comment on that. It's up for public comment and would love to have your feedback on | 00:37:40 | |
| that so. | 00:37:43 | |
| And I know we're working. I mentioned to your mayor the rail that's right there on Geneva Rd. that's kind of a barrier to you to | 00:37:47 | |
| enter your city. And some places we're under discussions on how we can work with Union Pacific and UTA and U dot and. | 00:37:56 | |
| Try to make that easier to get in and out of your city. So perfect. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, So Ryan, | 00:38:06 | |
| are you presenting today or Josh? Perfect. Come on up, Josh. | 00:38:12 | |
| Awesome. Thank you. Josh Gibbons with Hales Engineering. | 00:38:21 | |
| Let me just get this connected. | 00:38:25 | |
| I. | 00:38:28 | |
| All right. Well, thank you for having us. It's great to be here again. We were here last. We were here last year. Of course, last | 00:38:36 | |
| week we were able to present to the Planning Commission. | 00:38:40 | |
| And I know we've met with each of you recently as well to talk through the updates. Our goal tonight is to provide that update | 00:38:46 | |
| again for you to look at, provide feedback on. And it's also a good opportunity, I think for the the public of course, to hear | 00:38:51 | |
| what we're working on. | 00:38:57 | |
| Let's get that going. | 00:39:03 | |
| Perfect. OK. | 00:39:10 | |
| So we have a small update tonight to talk through. We have a short recap of things we've talked about in the past with level of | 00:39:12 | |
| service and potential improvements we were looking at in the city based on future demand. And then we're we're we're here to talk | 00:39:20 | |
| about a proposed alternative to current planning and current alignments in the city to get your input and feedback. | 00:39:28 | |
| So a key with this master plan is the road jurisdiction, right? | 00:39:37 | |
| U dot, they own a couple different roads within the city. Vineyard Connector is one of those that was just completed to the north. | 00:39:45 | |
| Geneva Rd. is another one that's owned by U dot. And so within this plan, our focus really will be on city roads and seeing what | 00:39:52 | |
| what improvements the city can work on for future growth. | 00:39:58 | |
| And but we'll also talk about potential UDOT facilities that could be improved or modified to fit both local and regional needs. | 00:40:06 | |
| And so tonight we're talking about, you know, you know, some city roads, some some U dot roads. But I just want to make it clear | 00:40:13 | |
| that, you know, there there are two different entities here that own different right of ways. | 00:40:21 | |
| So in the past as we worked on the plan, we've we've been talking about level of service. As a quick recap, level of service is a | 00:40:30 | |
| measurement of congestion on roads and delay. And so tonight we're going to look at existing conditions and a couple different | 00:40:36 | |
| future conditions based on the current traffic volumes on roadways in the city. What you see on the screen here would be the | 00:40:43 | |
| current levels of levels of service. | 00:40:49 | |
| If you see a green color, that's good, of course. It's a good level of service. It's a little bit more congested as you get to CD | 00:40:57 | |
| and ENF, of course. | 00:41:01 | |
| On U dot roads, levels of service A through D are acceptable and then on city roads, it's the same for arterials. But for lower | 00:41:08 | |
| classification roads like local roads, collector roads, we have a lower or a higher standard, I would say level of service C or | 00:41:15 | |
| better. So with that in mind, if you look at the screen, a couple things to point out would be Vineyard connector and this E | 00:41:23 | |
| section is showing up as orange at level of service E. | 00:41:30 | |
| Sorry, D and so it's still acceptable by U dot standard, but still getting congested. They've made a couple changes recently with | 00:41:38 | |
| striping that have helped a lot, I think. And but still, you know, that's telling us there's we're going to need some improvements | 00:41:45 | |
| down the line. You can see there's a few intersections we've highlighted as currently at level of service ERF and so those are | 00:41:53 | |
| things we're looking at and looking at potential improvements for those locations. | 00:42:00 | |
| As we go to a kind of a 10 year or nine year time frame to 2033, you can see that Vineyard Connector now shows up as a level of | 00:42:09 | |
| service E or F roadway. So something that should be fixed. The good news is that MAG recently approved a plan to make Vineyard | 00:42:16 | |
| Connector go to five lanes all the way along the corridor, which should, you know, capture and, and and handle most of the traffic | 00:42:23 | |
| that's shown on here. So. | 00:42:30 | |
| Really the volumes you see here in the 30 thousands of cars a day that can be handled with A5 lane facility. | 00:42:38 | |
| As we go to 2050, you know and I should have, you know, recap as well that this takes into account all known developments in the | 00:42:46 | |
| city. It takes into account other growth that's projected by MAG, of course. So in 2050 with all that growth, we would expect that | 00:42:54 | |
| we would need more improvements on the roadways. You can see Vineyard Connector would have volumes in the 50,000 of cars a day, | 00:43:02 | |
| which is basically what A7 lane facility. | 00:43:09 | |
| Or greater would be needed to handle that traffic. | 00:43:17 | |
| Geneva Rd. has a couple sections that are congested as was mentioned just barely. Once the rail line is realigned and removed in | 00:43:25 | |
| that area, U dot will have a lot more flexibility to widen Geneva Road to accommodate that that traffic on Geneva Rd. | 00:43:33 | |
| A couple of other spots to point out. 1600 N shows up with about 16,000 cars a day. That's already planned by MAG to go to five | 00:43:42 | |
| lanes. And so this is something that we can easily address with a proposed project in the plan. | 00:43:48 | |
| A couple of other spots you can see Center St. shows up with about 14,000 cars a day level of service D. So what we're looking at | 00:43:56 | |
| is, are there other connections that can be made in the city to take pressure off of Center St. And so a couple things we talked | 00:44:03 | |
| about so far would be new connections. One would be connection at 1200 N to go into the downtown area that that would be a key | 00:44:11 | |
| connection point to take pressure off of Vineyard Connector. | 00:44:18 | |
| And other facilities, same thing with Center St. There's already 400 S, which can take pressure off of Center Street, but beyond | 00:44:26 | |
| that we're talking about possibilities of maybe a 400 N connection. | 00:44:33 | |
| At this location across the rail. So these are different projects we're talking about. Like I said, we've talked about other | 00:44:41 | |
| alternatives to the current alignments that Mag has been talking from, which is what you see here on the screen. | 00:44:48 | |
| And that's where I'll turn it over to Ryan. | 00:44:56 | |
| Perfect. Thank you for letting us be here tonight. So as we look at some of the long range planning that's been done in the area, | 00:45:04 | |
| the current MAG RTP or regional transportation plan, they're looking at future roadways in the area. Several of those are lake | 00:45:10 | |
| crossing. They've identified 3 different lake crossing connections and where they might come across historically. I think as we've | 00:45:16 | |
| talked about it within the plan set and and. | 00:45:21 | |
| As the mayor has been working on it, the one coming across on the 800 N is probably not the correct connection and has been. | 00:45:28 | |
| I think discounted at this point, we show it as a point of reference. There's enough traffic coming around on. | 00:45:35 | |
| Many of the other roads that 800 N would be severely overloaded if that came in and connected as well and we'd be talking volumes | 00:45:43 | |
| that would be more freeway type on that segment of 800 N So as we look at that, we're looking at several different alternatives. | 00:45:48 | |
| One would be the extension of. | 00:45:54 | |
| How the road would come down, but the whole connection of. | 00:46:01 | |
| Vineyard Connector and where it would come into Vineyard, it would come in on the North End just like it normally would, but | 00:46:05 | |
| instead of wrapping around on the West side of Utah City. | 00:46:09 | |
| It becomes somewhat of a barrier for crossing within the city if it goes to seven lanes and has about 57,000 cars a day. | 00:46:14 | |
| And become somewhat divisive or Vineyard City and overall. So what we've looked at is a potential reroute of that that would push | 00:46:22 | |
| it onto the 1600 N alignment shown in that that golden dash line as it comes down from the north and. | 00:46:29 | |
| Makes its way through. I'll try and get the laser pointer up there. I apologize, a little bit harder to see, but as you come down | 00:46:39 | |
| and around that corner, it would go on to a 1600 N alignment and then onto a Geneva Rd. alignment where it would bend and go | 00:46:43 | |
| towards the South. | 00:46:47 | |
| Several advantages that we see with this are that we have multiple connections going over to I-15. Number one, we can redirect | 00:46:52 | |
| that traffic to I-15 on 1600 N as well as giving it a better connection to 800 N and allowing that traffic to flow freely back and | 00:46:58 | |
| forth and all the way down to 400. So we have many, many more opportunities to try and move that traffic east, West into Orem or | 00:47:04 | |
| further down into Provo where it wants to be. | 00:47:10 | |
| Those are some great advantages if we do that and I'll go through a couple more slides here. | 00:47:17 | |
| And just kind of show that connection on the left is the current plan where it comes down around the West side of Utah City, shown | 00:47:23 | |
| in pink. | 00:47:26 | |
| There's a railroad crossing on the North End. | 00:47:30 | |
| Again, I'll try and get the laser pointer over there, but the. | 00:47:33 | |
| There's a great separate crossing, so you would go up and over the railroad tracks to make sure the tracks can can move fairly | 00:47:36 | |
| freely, and then it would come down and touchdown and the traffic would go around. Utah City in its current and present format, | 00:47:41 | |
| the way it's been drawn. | 00:47:46 | |
| What we're looking at is an alternative that is not new to you daughter to Mac. They have also looked at alternatives like this | 00:47:51 | |
| that would bring Vineyard Connector down towards the North End of Vineyard. There's where a little more gentle and followed the | 00:47:56 | |
| tracks and went through some property on a diagonal. | 00:48:01 | |
| Somewhat paralleling on the tracks, and then they've also looked at other options as well. | 00:48:07 | |
| This alternative to 1600 N, we'd still have the grade separation. We'd have to go up and over the tracks, but we want to keep that | 00:48:13 | |
| great separation a little bit longer. | 00:48:17 | |
| And then bend those lanes to where they would go to the South onto Geneva Rd. We would still have a local access Rd. on 1600 N | 00:48:22 | |
| that would come off of the interchange, would go to the West, still providing access into the industrial area as well as the | 00:48:27 | |
| connection of Mill Rd. going North and South. | 00:48:33 | |
| And then on to the West and it would go over. | 00:48:39 | |
| Underneath Vineyard Connector and still keep those local roads all connected. | 00:48:43 | |
| One of the other advantages that we have is that we're looking at a connection on 1200 N, which would continue out of Utah City. | 00:48:47 | |
| Would go across to End Mill Road and then eventually go over and connect into Geneva Rd. | 00:48:54 | |
| Again, having multiple options within a city for that traffic to flow and move around is is fairly helpful from a transportation | 00:49:00 | |
| perspective. | 00:49:03 | |
| It also keeps the traffic volumes a little bit lower. | 00:49:07 | |
| As are shown in this next diagram. | 00:49:11 | |
| Those 2050 future projected volumes is are consistent with what mags long range planning is. They always shoot towards the 2050 | 00:49:14 | |
| projection. | 00:49:17 | |
| But what you would see is we're able to drop the volumes on that road. It's still necessary. We still need this road that's | 00:49:22 | |
| coming. The five lanes that are currently planned, projected and funded as those get built, they would remain, but it would remain | 00:49:28 | |
| at 5 lanes and we wouldn't have to increase that to seven lanes. We'd be moving that traffic that's cut through traffic around the | 00:49:33 | |
| edge of the city and pushing it onto 1600 N and onto Geneva Rd. | 00:49:39 | |
| Mill Rd. does pick up a lot of traffic still as it normally has done in the past historically and projections about 25,000 cars a | 00:49:45 | |
| day still within A5 lane Rd. cross section. EW 1200 N would be 5 lanes as it comes across. | 00:49:53 | |
| And then we try and divert that and bring it back down to probably 3 lanes as we come into Utah City. | 00:50:02 | |
| Certainly as we look at the the band where we were looking at, I think it was 57,000 cars a day, which is again above a A7 lane | 00:50:08 | |
| Rd. capacity, we're down to about 32,000. So we're probably 5 lanes through here. | 00:50:14 | |
| That segment between Mill Road and Geneva Road or up to 40. So we're probably going to be looking at a little bit of lane widening | 00:50:21 | |
| there. That would be turn pockets and things like that. | 00:50:26 | |
| And. | 00:50:31 | |
| We create those impact fees, which then are charged to new residents or new building projects that come into the city, and so that | 00:51:36 | |
| the new population is paying for those improvements, not the existing population that's here. It's a good way to disperse some of | 00:51:42 | |
| those impacts. | 00:51:47 | |
| And then we're we're shooting for a plan adoption in May, May to June of this year. | 00:51:54 | |
| Councillor, are there any questions that we might be able to address at this point? | 00:52:00 | |
| Any questions from the Council? | 00:52:04 | |
| I have one, the one that you said was already had already been funded. We had talked before in our meeting that that connects into | 00:52:08 | |
| Pioneer Crossing. | 00:52:12 | |
| Is that, is that right? Did I understand that correctly? What's what's been funded? I hope I say this correctly. I have not looked | 00:52:17 | |
| at it specifically and Nassim might have a little more information on it. | 00:52:21 | |
| But at least through the Vineyard area, it's been funded as A5 Lane Rd. Certainly to the north as you look at Pioneer Crossing | 00:52:27 | |
| and, and what's happening up to the north, there's still some plans that are ongoing up there and, and looking at alignments and | 00:52:32 | |
| the shift of those alignments potentially in the Lehigh City Transportation Master Plan. | 00:52:38 | |
| Yeah. | 00:52:44 | |
| We had discussions today actually with you thought about something a lot different subject and this came up. So any thoughts | 00:52:47 | |
| stated that it is on their long range plan to connect it all the way to. | 00:52:53 | |
| All the way up Pioneer Crossing, excuse me, Yeah, up to Pioneer Crossing, they don't have exact data on it, but just like to kind | 00:53:02 | |
| to kind of repeat what Ryan said is a lot of moving parts that they're working up, working with up there. | 00:53:08 | |
| Thank you. I have one question. I noticed the road across Utah Lake. | 00:53:17 | |
| Got to speak before St. Fire and state lands a couple weeks ago and obviously they own the property there. Why is it always | 00:53:24 | |
| showing that it's there? Like it's possible? Like is that magnet shows that they would do that? Yeah, it's on the MAG regional | 00:53:31 | |
| transportation plan. They haven't submitted anything to forestry pharmacy lands in like 30 years. They always say, hey, here's the | 00:53:38 | |
| and I think I've seen 20 different bridges, right? Or roads and that never happens, right? So are we. | 00:53:46 | |
| Saving property to connect to 800 N, If they do that, is that what that was or is that connecting down an Orem? They were showing | 00:53:53 | |
| potential connection points where they thought it might connect. But I think at this point that it's all hyper 100 is not being | 00:54:00 | |
| considered at this because I saw the public comments on the Lehigh stuff where they're like they went on. | 00:54:06 | |
| I think the process is that they envision it and with this envisioned study, then they go and they present it to FFSL or whoever | 00:54:45 | |
| is in the right of way and then they would go present it and get all the permits and do that type of thing. But first they have to | 00:54:50 | |
| go through this study. | 00:54:56 | |
| OK, similar to Proload running writing a letter. Is there any way our council, I know it doesn't have any power or authority, but | 00:55:05 | |
| could we vote as a council to say we don't want to vote through the lake? | 00:55:09 | |
| I think you could, yeah. I think you could write a letter to, I'm saying US voting as a council, like saying, hey, we don't really | 00:55:15 | |
| need a highway coming through. Oh yeah, we did as as our council body. That's why we're seeing that dotted line through vineyard | 00:55:22 | |
| is gone. Last City Council, the last City Council went and pushed very hard for that road to not connect into vineyards. So we did | 00:55:28 | |
| do that as a council. | 00:55:34 | |
| That will not be a line on the map and the transportation master plan is its finalized. OK yeah I just don't wanna scare anyone on | 00:55:41 | |
| this. If it's so superficial or whatever then probably not show it. | 00:55:46 | |
| Out of our city, so. | 00:56:22 | |
| Anyway, thank you. Any other question? OK, thank you so much. We're going to go ahead and take a 10 minute break and then we'll | 00:56:24 | |
| resume the meeting. | 00:56:29 | |
| OK. | 00:56:38 | |
| Hopefully still we're live. | 00:56:45 | |
| All right. Thank you for letting us have that little break. We're going to move on to 3.2. This is a municipal code title 3, | 00:56:49 | |
| calling a special meetings ordinance 2024, Dash 05 and actually 3.23 point 3 and 3.4 will all be presented by our legal counsel. | 00:56:56 | |
| So I am just going to let you introduce them as you go through. Thank you. I'm going to do them all as the same presentation and | 00:57:04 | |
| same discussion, if that's OK that's great. | 00:57:11 | |
| We. | 00:57:20 | |
| The mayor a few months ago restructured how we do our. | 00:57:22 | |
| Agenda and it was in response to things that we heard from the public and from some of the incoming council members. And so this | 00:57:27 | |
| is my reminder that we don't have a a room, a big room with the conference table where we all can sit around and look at documents | 00:57:32 | |
| and talk together. But if you'll close your eyes and imagine. | 00:57:38 | |
| Is sometimes writing code to me feels like a negotiation that you have on your own as you're putting things on a piece of paper. | 00:58:16 | |
| And when I have clients that I'm in a negotiation remediation. | 00:58:21 | |
| It's often the case that when you come to a good agreement, everybody feels a little bit happy and everybody feels a little bit | 00:58:27 | |
| upset. And I suspect as we go through this with your varying priorities and what you, what you value as council members and how | 00:58:33 | |
| you'd like to interact, that there might be things in the document that will make you smile and you'll say, yes, finally, I've | 00:58:39 | |
| been waiting for that. And there may be some things where you'll say, well, I don't like that that gives that benefit somebody | 00:58:45 | |
| else or that helps. | 00:58:51 | |
| Them and what they're doing. | 00:58:57 | |
| My goal was to try to thread the needle and make sure that we respected the state statutory powers and authorities that you have | 00:58:59 | |
| and that we establish processes that will help you do your work efficiently and help you make sure that you have really clear | 00:59:06 | |
| pathways to get things on agenda, to manage your meetings and and to do things. So a little bit of the why State law requires that | 00:59:14 | |
| cities have rules of order and procedure. | 00:59:21 | |
| Vineyard City does not, I'm not sure why they were not included in the original set of documents, but they weren't. And the cities | 00:59:29 | |
| moved along without them and I think has done a really nice job of that. But they have had a, you have had a council within the | 00:59:37 | |
| city that was largely united on issues. And so having some differences of opinion has prompted some questions about, well, what is | 00:59:44 | |
| our process for this and how do we go about doing that? And I think it would. | 00:59:51 | |
| Behoove us all to have some rules in place so that when we get into those discussions, we don't have to spin up and spend a lot of | 00:59:59 | |
| time asking how do we do this or is it appropriate to do this? But they have rules we can point to and say, you know, yes, we can | 01:00:06 | |
| and we shouldn't. Here's how we do it. So the document that I put together for you to consider is a draft ordinance and it has | 01:00:14 | |
| these items on it. Talks about agenda formation, public comments and hearings, council discussions and reports. | 01:00:21 | |
| How to make requests of staff, what requests are appropriate and how to go about doing it. Council staff interactions and then | 01:00:29 | |
| special meetings. So I just want to walk through everyone kind of an overview format. And then I provided to Pam. We'd initially | 01:00:35 | |
| put this together as two different ordinances. And then as we looked at the agenda, we thought it made sense to take it up all at | 01:00:41 | |
| once. And so I sent Pam and I didn't send it to her in time for the meeting, but I consolidated the two ordinances into one | 01:00:47 | |
| document. | 01:00:53 | |
| She if she hasn't already, we'll circulate that soon after the meeting so you can look at it. | 01:01:00 | |
| As usual, pans ahead. | 01:01:07 | |
| On things. So let me give you an overview and then you have the document in front of you and then when I'm done, we can talk about | 01:01:10 | |
| it. You can provide my input if I don't expect that you'll have a. | 01:01:16 | |
| All of your questions formulated today and so if there are things you need to follow up with me on over the next two weeks, we | 01:01:24 | |
| have time to do it and then we can Polish the document and bring it forward for action at the next meeting. So on agenda | 01:01:29 | |
| formation, the structure under state law is that the mayor is the chair of the Council and as chair of the Council she establishes | 01:01:35 | |
| the agenda. | 01:01:41 | |
| The question that's come up recently, well, how do we get things on the agenda if the mayor hasn't put it on the agenda? And what | 01:01:48 | |
| I'm proposing is that since any 2 council members have the ability to call a special meeting, it makes sense to have any 2 council | 01:01:55 | |
| members have the ability to request that something be added to the agenda. That way we don't have to burden the council or the | 01:02:03 | |
| citizens with additional meetings. We can try to get as much business done during our regular meetings as possible. | 01:02:10 | |
| So the process is that if any 2 council members want something on the agenda, they can submit that request to the mayor in | 01:02:19 | |
| writing. The mayor in most circumstances I imagine, will accept the item and put it on the agenda. | 01:02:25 | |
| If she rejects it for either procedural or legal reasons, she would respond in writing and then if you still wish to have it on | 01:02:32 | |
| the on the agenda, you would have it as a procedural question on the next council agenda. The council can vote and if a majority | 01:02:40 | |
| of the council wants to have it on a future agenda, they can override the mayor. This is a process that doesn't get things on the | 01:02:48 | |
| agenda immediately, but it does get them on the agenda quickly when you think of it in terms of government speed, right? | 01:02:56 | |
| We don't move as quickly as a private organization would because we want to involve feedback from the public. We want to be | 01:03:04 | |
| deliberative. We want to make sure we're making the right decision. So I think it would be about four to six weeks from when you | 01:03:10 | |
| would ask for something if the mayor rejected it, that it would end up on an agenda. | 01:03:16 | |
| Public comment and hearings. This is in line with the city's current practices. It's just putting it on paper and putting it in an | 01:03:24 | |
| ordinance. There would be public comment in the agenda for every regular City Council meeting. | 01:03:31 | |
| The mayor is the chair of the meeting, can allocate time among people. Public comment is not a filibuster. We're not the Senate. | 01:03:38 | |
| And so we want to hear from everybody, but we also don't want, we want to allow time for the council to do the business that's in | 01:03:44 | |
| front of it. | 01:03:49 | |
| And then on council discussions and reports, similar principles, we want to limit discussion to the matter being considered. We | 01:03:56 | |
| want to have equitable, equitable participation so everybody on the council has an opportunity to speak and that as chair of the | 01:04:03 | |
| meeting, the mayor would moderate those discussions and how they would occur. | 01:04:10 | |
| Request of staff. So the basic principle here is we want council members to be able to ask for information from staff to make | 01:04:18 | |
| decisions. It's important that you have that. | 01:04:24 | |
| And that you're informed before you're asked to decide things. We also recognize that you have five people on the council. And if | 01:04:31 | |
| everybody's making really significant demands on staff time, then it can take them away from the core work that they need to be | 01:04:39 | |
| doing. And so we have to have some kind of process in place that would balance that. This is an attempt at that. And you can tell | 01:04:46 | |
| me whether we're close to the mark or off the mark or how to adjust it. But what I've inserted in the ordinance is what I. | 01:04:54 | |
| I'm just terming a significant request. It would be any request that takes three or more hours of staff time. | 01:05:02 | |
| And if anyone other than anyone without the mayor or the managers approval wants to make that kind of a demand or that volume of a | 01:05:08 | |
| demand of staff, we just ask that either the mayor or the manager say that's OK. It won't take away from the time that they need | 01:05:14 | |
| to be spending on other things. Or that you come to the council and the council votes and says yes, we want staff doing that | 01:05:20 | |
| thing. | 01:05:26 | |
| Council staff interactions, The balance we're trying to get here is council need to be able to communicate and to speak with staff | 01:05:34 | |
| that can give them information and can help the council in its decisions. We also have to respect that there needs to be some | 01:05:41 | |
| hierarchy and some responsibility and accountability among staff. And the way it works in cities is that the mayor and the city | 01:05:49 | |
| manager are kind of. | 01:05:56 | |
| At the top of the organizational chart and need to be aware of what the people under them are doing so that they can hold them | 01:06:03 | |
| accountable and so they can be accountable to you. And so the way the code is written is that you, if you have requests of staff, | 01:06:09 | |
| you would direct those inquiries through the mayor or the city manager. And then again if something requires significant staff | 01:06:15 | |
| time. | 01:06:21 | |
| Of three or more hours than it would be communicated to the council and approved by either the council, the mayor or the city | 01:06:27 | |
| manager. So the intent again here is to try to respect those lines of authority so we have clear accountability. But. | 01:06:35 | |
| But also to allow you as members of the council, to make requests if the mayor or city manager who the staff members report to, | 01:06:44 | |
| say this won't be disruptive. Staff can work on this and get it to you. There's no need to come back to the council if they say, | 01:06:50 | |
| you know what, we're pretty overwhelmed with things right now. We can't get to it as quickly as you want. You can come back to the | 01:06:57 | |
| council and then the council can say, staff make this a priority. | 01:07:03 | |
| So that's the ordinance in a nutshell. | 01:07:13 | |
| Can I ask some clarification just on that last slide, so we talked about? | 01:07:16 | |
| Also, having that be, it's the mayor and city manager and then directors. | 01:07:24 | |
| Is it to have the directors be able to approve the request or that you could communicate with? | 01:07:32 | |
| I thought that was also included in that one. I think you're right that it is. Let me look at the ordinance and make sure that's | 01:07:39 | |
| there. | 01:07:44 | |
| Marty helped with some of the drafting and review of this and so. | 01:07:51 | |
| Marty, I'll make note of it. I believe that's in there. But if it's not, I I know it's important to you and we can make that | 01:07:57 | |
| insertion. | 01:08:01 | |
| You also have in your packet memo from me. In the absence of an ordinance like this, a lot of questions have come up over the last | 01:08:07 | |
| three months of. | 01:08:13 | |
| When and how can we make requests of staff? How quickly should we expect to get answers back from things? What's appropriate and | 01:08:19 | |
| what's not? And I've been getting asked those questions by council members, by staff. And so I wanted to put pen to paper and kind | 01:08:25 | |
| of lay out. | 01:08:30 | |
| Under state law, what's appropriate and what's not? The short answer under state law is that council members are entitled to all | 01:08:36 | |
| administrative records of the city. | 01:08:42 | |
| And that cities may adopt rules or parameters around how those requests are to be made. And that's a court decision that's been in | 01:08:48 | |
| place just about as long as I've been alive and it's been unchallenged and and has remained kind of the standard, at least | 01:08:56 | |
| judicially in the state. So then the question is what requests are appropriate? What requests can come from a council member | 01:09:04 | |
| without approval from the council? And so I've attempted to give you some guidance on that. | 01:09:12 | |
| The the crux of the issue that I'm trying to get at in the memo is. | 01:09:20 | |
| There are competing demands on the city. The city has information that is public. It also has information that is private or | 01:09:26 | |
| protected about the people we serve. We have bank account information, procurement information, personal information about people | 01:09:34 | |
| in the city. And if we provide information that would have private or protected information in it, the council has an obligation | 01:09:42 | |
| to also treat that information appropriately. And So what I hope the memo will give you some instruction on is. | 01:09:50 | |
| Sometimes if you want things quickly, the staff won't have time to do the same review it would if it were to receive a grammar | 01:09:59 | |
| request from a member of the public. And I think that's OK. I just want you all to be aware and kind of unnoticed that if you get | 01:10:06 | |
| information from staff that does that hasn't been reviewed in the same way you would have grammar request so that you can get | 01:10:13 | |
| things quickly, that you have that obligation not to share it publicly unless. | 01:10:21 | |
| You talk to Pam or talk to me and get direction of yes this can be shared or no it can't be shared. | 01:10:29 | |
| I hope that makes sense and feel free to ask questions if you have specific concerns about that. It would be nice if we had some | 01:10:35 | |
| kind of. | 01:10:39 | |
| I mean, we are making policy, but sometimes I know in the beginning I would be sent something and it was always really helpful | 01:10:44 | |
| when Pam at the end. | 01:10:48 | |
| Say this is private, not ready for the public side. And I know sometimes I'll receive emails and I'll look at it and I'll have to | 01:10:52 | |
| respond and say what are we talking here? So just like a note towards that's a great suggestion that when we share information, we | 01:10:58 | |
| indicate what we believe it is. I think most staff can make their best effort at that and certainly your director level staff | 01:11:04 | |
| should have a pretty good idea of what things are. | 01:11:10 | |
| My worry is you might get things from staff lower down the organizational chart and they may not be aware of what grammar | 01:11:17 | |
| requirements would apply. They generally just treat everything as if it's private and protected, and that's kind of the default. | 01:11:24 | |
| So please, if you have any question in your mind about what is this and should I be sharing it publicly, give Pam a ring. She's | 01:11:30 | |
| the city's records officer as a reporter. Or give me a ring and we can walk you through it and make sure you know what can be | 01:11:37 | |
| shared and what can't be shared. | 01:11:43 | |
| I guess the, and I mean the real thrust of this is we want you to have the information you need to get do your job. | 01:11:51 | |
| And we can get it to you quicker if we do it in that way. | 01:11:56 | |
| Can I just say one thing? | 01:12:01 | |
| Just to start off, so we're not doing a deep dive into anything, anything that's. | 01:12:03 | |
| Title the draft or his draft across it is is not a record and not to be shared outside of the organization because we're not ready | 01:12:09 | |
| to share because there are going to be changes on it. So that's that's where you can start. | 01:12:17 | |
| That's the first thing to start with. There are other things, but and we can talk about those later, but Pam and I will work with | 01:12:26 | |
| Eric to try to figure out some kind of labeling or protocols that we can follow. | 01:12:31 | |
| In the absence of that, I think we'll just try to mark things private, protected or draft. | 01:12:38 | |
| As we work through them, I spent 10 years as a lawyer for the US Department of Transportation. I, they didn't have really neat | 01:12:43 | |
| protocols for that. I was always jealous of my colleagues with the Department of Defense because they had really strict e-mail | 01:12:49 | |
| protocols. And they had, you know, these three letter codes that were really instructive on every e-mail telling them who could | 01:12:55 | |
| see it, who couldn't see it. And I thought it was great. | 01:13:01 | |
| Are we ready for Q&A? Yeah. | 01:13:11 | |
| Sorry, sorry, my microphone was wrong. | 01:13:13 | |
| I am really concerned about a lot of language. Obviously we're setting up divided government and I. | 01:13:19 | |
| Had a conversation with Nelson Abbott, our representative, about how, you know, we're, we're a legislature, we're a body and we're | 01:13:27 | |
| going to vote as a majority is going to put rules on. | 01:13:34 | |
| All of us, the minority about how the basically how the minority gets to interact with the staff. And one of the things that he | 01:13:41 | |
| said on the phone or we discussed was that. | 01:13:47 | |
| As a legislator, he would never go to the governor and say, can I pretty please speak with this department over here and get | 01:13:54 | |
| permission? Could you imagine the Democrats going and asking President Trump saying, can I go speak with the Department of Defense | 01:14:01 | |
| and getting permission? And I just think it sets a precedence of, you know, obviously, hey, I want this type of information. | 01:14:08 | |
| Go ask Eric and Julie for this. No, we don't. We don't want to give it to you. You know, it's not a, it's not a staff important | 01:14:16 | |
| thing. | 01:14:20 | |
| Of the, you know, the city manager and everything. And if it's like, hey, I'm looking for these finances, it's like, you know, | 01:14:56 | |
| we're, we're here in March and I still don't have the finances, right. So it's like, oh, it's not a priority. Like I just want to | 01:15:03 | |
| know where all of our money has been spent and we're having our budget and it's like, well, it's just not a priority. The mayor, | 01:15:09 | |
| you know, we don't have this. I don't have three votes to do that. So as a minority, we're going to like, we're going to put the | 01:15:16 | |
| we're going to vote in two weeks. | 01:15:22 | |
| And the majority is going to vote how much information the minority gets. And I think that's I think it's unconstitutional. All | 01:15:29 | |
| right, just I'm going to give everybody a turn. Let's go ahead and have Amber and then we'll have Marty and we'll go back to Jake. | 01:15:36 | |
| I just was, I'm curious about specifically which section is concerning to you regarding this. You can make requests for | 01:15:44 | |
| information from the manager or from the department heads, right? And so obviously. | 01:15:51 | |
| I gotta turn. Oh, I guess you get to respond. Yeah, she's just asking questions. So see where it talks about inclusive, like | 01:15:58 | |
| request items. So we put it up there and we ask for documents and it goes, we're gonna put in an ordinance that says I have to | 01:16:06 | |
| then come back to you guys and say pretty please, can I have oversight of what you're doing? Amber, did you have a comment back on | 01:16:13 | |
| that? Which section? Oh, he it was, I think he's talking about. | 01:16:21 | |
| Section C of C Yeah, you said C It was a formation of the agenda. I think it was CC Yeah, the agenda. But also when you're I, I | 01:16:30 | |
| see the. | 01:16:37 | |
| It was more on the document side of things of like, hey, the staff thinks this is too much work, so then we're going to the city | 01:16:46 | |
| managers and the mayor is going to have authority to say, hey, this isn't a top priority, let staff do this. So therefore, what | 01:16:51 | |
| makes the determination? | 01:16:56 | |
| We could. | 01:17:04 | |
| Staff time. Who decides if it's three or more hours? | 01:17:06 | |
| It would just be an estimate of how much time it would take somebody from the staff. It's asked they would get that assessment. So | 01:17:10 | |
| I want to say hold on one second. Is that the end of your comment? OK. You just wanted to know. Go ahead, Marty. I was a big | 01:17:16 | |
| helper on all of this. And I want you to understand my motivations here. | 01:17:23 | |
| Specifically on what you're talking about. | 01:17:32 | |
| So in my conversations with Jamie, Jamie's time is not included in this since he is our legal representative. This is just staff, | 01:18:40 | |
| right? You're our legal counsel's carved out of this, right? | 01:18:45 | |
| I think Marty's point remains. But I I don't want any of you to feel like you can't call me on things I please do. | 01:18:52 | |
| That I think the question is if you if you were to ask me to do something, that would be. | 01:19:00 | |
| 1/2 day or a full day effort, if I got a request from everybody all at once, I would have to prioritize it. And so this is an | 01:19:07 | |
| attempt to have a process in place where we can prioritize those kinds of things. | 01:19:14 | |
| And I'm with you, Marty. Like I don't think my projects are the ones that are stopping stuffing cuz I haven't gotten any results | 01:19:21 | |
| from staff. So I think there are projects and there are heavy burden, but I have been waiting patiently. Like, OK. And but I just | 01:19:27 | |
| don't like the majority getting to prioritize the minority. It's like it's when you submit it, we're all equals, like all five of | 01:19:34 | |
| us. So why would the majority get to prioritize what gets out of site? Hey, I, you know, I'll check in with Pam. Hey, do we have | 01:19:40 | |
| this yet? OK now. | 01:19:47 | |
| And it's like, no, we're going to prioritize that. You guys get this, right. For the record, can we specify that staff has given | 01:19:54 | |
| you financial documents, but they weren't what you were looking for? | 01:20:00 | |
| Right, that's what I'm No, I have no, I only have the names of the vendors. | 01:20:06 | |
| It's it's an incomplete statement and I think that's what Marty is talking about right now. OK, so this is my concern. | 01:21:15 | |
| That I did get a vendor list and a lot of the vendors. | 01:21:23 | |
| You know hotels in France travel in England. | 01:21:29 | |
| Restaurants in Ireland, these are companies that are on this vendor list, so department heads are not going to want to talk about | 01:21:34 | |
| this. | 01:21:39 | |
| It'll be delayed. | 01:21:45 | |
| And so majorities don't want to talk about this. | 01:21:47 | |
| So how do I get to talk about? You haven't asked me if I want to talk about it or not. That's a fair statement, but in many cases. | 01:21:52 | |
| Take you're making assumptions that aren't fair. I've asked you not to speak for me. I would be OK with talking about those | 01:22:01 | |
| things. I'm aware of some of those things and I would like to I would be fine talking further into it. And I think that if we | 01:22:06 | |
| talked about it, we would get further understanding right. And we're and we're talking about. | 01:22:12 | |
| But that's why I'm, I'm helping the public understand like they're gonna, they're sometimes in government, Democrat, Republican, | 01:22:17 | |
| whether it be the federal side, the state side or local side where it goes. Wow. | 01:22:23 | |
| Since we're oversight, we're looking at financial things that we're seeing and it's like, hey, I'd like to dig into this. And what | 01:22:31 | |
| I'm saying is that it's very inappropriate for us to. | 01:22:36 | |
| Guidelines. | 01:22:42 | |
| That say the majority, you think you got it in order to talk, in order to overcome this. So I'm just giving you one case example. | 01:22:44 | |
| I'm happy to say that you are and I don't. And I apologize. I don't want to say I speak for you, but sometimes it's like I've got | 01:22:50 | |
| to go fish on a boat to bring this spend out or, or to talk about it publicly or put it on the agenda. It's like, do you have | 01:22:56 | |
| specific changes in mind that you'd like to see? Yeah, I just don't think. I just don't think well, and I'm going to bring it back | 01:23:03 | |
| to the point of the conversation. | 01:23:09 | |
| OK. Were there additional things outside of that? Are there projects I just don't I could understand for agenda items like hey, | 01:24:24 | |
| you need to have three for agenda items, but I don't agree with documents from staff or from you got like me having to go to you | 01:24:32 | |
| and then to the mayor or or Eric and saying, hey, can you guys get them to give me these documents because documents I can take it | 01:24:39 | |
| and go, it's not on the agenda. | 01:24:46 | |
| I just go slowly and I don't like. | 01:25:56 | |
| I think that the valuable time in the next two weeks would be good to address this item to come to some consensus for it to be | 01:26:40 | |
| voted on. So the public comment period. Is this addressed in this too because you went over it really fast. I'm extremely | 01:26:47 | |
| concerned about that. We've shut down Facebook and we've shut down or we've shut it down to 10 minutes. Now the new policy is | 01:26:54 | |
| stating that a citizens must state before the meeting and then it comes up to you to then if there's many of them, we group all | 01:27:01 | |
| those decisions or the topics together. | 01:27:08 | |
| And then only one person gets to speak and and I think we're trending in the wrong direction there. I don't think there should be | 01:27:15 | |
| rules. I think, I think as a council, we have to like this is their time. This is this is their meeting just as much as ours. And, | 01:27:21 | |
| and I'm just. | 01:27:27 | |
| You know, if there's ten people to talk about parking, there's ten people to talk about parking. They all tend to speak, you know? | 01:27:34 | |
| That's because that's not how I read it and I wouldn't be comfortable with that either. Help me, and maybe this is the | 01:27:42 | |
| conversation we have after this meeting, but. | 01:27:46 | |
| The the intent on the public comment period was the state that we wanted to hear from everybody that wanted to speak. The mayor | 01:27:50 | |
| can ask people of a similar comment to group together. You know how it usually works in most council meetings throughout the state | 01:27:57 | |
| as if you have people that want to group together then the chair will give them 5 minutes instead of two minutes or whatever it is | 01:28:04 | |
| and usually the chair will try to. | 01:28:10 | |
| Give people as much time as as they can for the topic and for the number of people present. The way this rule is written is it has | 01:28:20 | |
| a floor, not a ceiling. So it wouldn't limit the mayor or the chair from allowing people more time, But it would prohibit the | 01:28:27 | |
| mayor or the chair from giving people less than two minutes, or from presenting, or from preventing every person at least one | 01:28:34 | |
| opportunity to speak, either individually or as a group. | 01:28:41 | |
| It doesn't like it's written in a way where we're trying to give flexibility to the chair to look at who's president, look at the | 01:28:49 | |
| issue, look at how many people want to speak, and then try to tailor the time accordingly when a quorum can extend time as well. | 01:28:57 | |
| I I just want like I'm looking at the legalese and ox. I threw this out. There are so many things where it says. | 01:29:07 | |
| Almost every sentence in here is like, the majority is getting together to put rules on the minority and we're gonna vote in two | 01:29:45 | |
| weeks. This is ruled on all of us. It's not just and it's not about people, right, but before. | 01:29:52 | |
| OK, hold on. We're gonna. Did you have anything further on your comment, Marty? Well, I just wanted to say I'm willing to talk | 01:30:00 | |
| about the public comment section like if you want to change some of the some of the times or you want to change some of the | 01:30:05 | |
| wording. | 01:30:10 | |
| I I don't think there's. | 01:30:15 | |
| I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And like Jamie said, this is brought to the table for discussion. And when I sat | 01:30:18 | |
| down with him and worked on it, it was like there were things that were OK. I don't think that's right. Let's push it to here. And | 01:30:22 | |
| I don't think this is right. Let's push it here. So if there's things that you're not comfortable with, we can still discuss. I'm | 01:30:27 | |
| not sorry. We're having a work session. | 01:30:32 | |
| If I yeah, I agree. | 01:30:38 | |
| Let's wait till Martha's done, OK? Just hold on, Marty. Sorry. Go ahead. No, you're fighting. You're. I'm OK. | 01:30:41 | |
| I just am saying that with the discussions with council members and their reports, if it's going to be hours long, I will walk out | 01:30:50 | |
| of here like that is like Jacob, we need to be able to have efficient meetings, not just like someone sitting here for two hours | 01:30:58 | |
| talking about what they think is right. I mean, meetings actually cost money. Like we're using taxpayer dollars to use staff time. | 01:31:05 | |
| And it's it's not something that I take right. And that's why I'm like it. | 01:31:13 | |
| I don't know if you misspoke, but it to council members can request an agenda item now. Well, previously we've known it as three, | 01:31:21 | |
| but we didn't really have policy on it from what I understand. So now you and Sarah could request anything to the mayor in writing | 01:31:26 | |
| and she would have to give you a response of why that's good. I mean, there were some there were a few things in there was that I | 01:31:31 | |
| talked to Jamie. I said appreciate it because it's been a couple months. I'm like, hey, it's not on there, right. So I appreciate | 01:31:37 | |
| that. | 01:31:42 | |
| I just there, there's a lot of things on here where obviously this was drafted by the majority. And so I know it's a draft | 01:31:49 | |
| document, but if we could, if I could take it back and I didn't want to share it publicly, but it was like. | 01:31:57 | |
| I I would hope that we could have that two weeks from now have a very long public engagement period so people could go through it | 01:32:07 | |
| or have a working meeting off session with me and you in good faith we sit down. | 01:32:13 | |
| I had another promise, but it slipped my mind now. So go ahead to to council member hold the way. I would just say if if you're | 01:32:50 | |
| going to throw darts at this throw them at me. I'm the only one that put it. So it's this wasn't there were no really detailed | 01:32:57 | |
| instructions on you know, make sure the rules include this or include that the context was. | 01:33:04 | |
| Staff and members of the council are are getting and are asking a lot of questions about what's appropriate or how do we handle | 01:33:13 | |
| this or how do we and, and each time what I found was under rule on that. | 01:33:19 | |
| And so my suggestion to the mayor was maybe we ought to put together a set of rules. And then I just looked at what other cities | 01:33:27 | |
| had in their code and there are things you can put in ordinance, There are things you can put in rules. So you could adjust this | 01:33:32 | |
| accordingly if there are things you'd say, well. | 01:33:37 | |
| I don't like it in the ordinance, but maybe I'd like to do a resolution that would have a rule on that. You could adjust it that | 01:33:43 | |
| way. | 01:33:46 | |
| And then again to my comment at the very, very beginning, I think like any negotiated document you're going to on some things feel | 01:33:50 | |
| like, wow, I really won there and I got what I wanted. And on other things you may think, you know, I didn't get what I wanted | 01:33:57 | |
| there. But I, I don't think it's fair to anyone else on the council to say. | 01:34:04 | |
| And so we may, when you say staff to staff, not like department heads, right? I don't think we should ever kick. We ever give | 01:34:48 | |
| staff, I don't think, I hope not. | 01:34:52 | |
| But some councils have or council members, not our council, but I have experience where there are council members who will try to | 01:34:57 | |
| give instruction to staff. I see. And staff will pull five different ways. If they get 5 different sets of instruction. I can see | 01:35:03 | |
| that. So it is helpful to have rules on that point that say, you know, if you're going to task staff to do something, it has to be | 01:35:10 | |
| consistent with the city plans and with city ordinances. And then the direction comes through a chain of command just like in any | 01:35:16 | |
| other organization. | 01:35:22 | |
| Amber, did you remember your comment? | 01:35:30 | |
| This is a response, I believe to the last meeting where we were seeking ways to hold the meetings and looking for opportunities to | 01:35:33 | |
| work that way. And so I, I think this is a good opportunity for you to work with Jamie and get this to the point where you want so | 01:35:38 | |
| you feel comfortable. | 01:35:44 | |
| Yeah, on page 6 E it talks about how city stat or I don't know if it's department heads or city staff can like report us for | 01:35:50 | |
| talking to them or going after. And I'm like an an annual report will be summarized for the nature and scope of significant | 01:35:57 | |
| information requests and then. | 01:36:04 | |
| Like it? | 01:36:11 | |
| We're over them. | 01:36:14 | |
| So it's like. | 01:36:16 | |
| Which one are you looking at? I'm sorry, an annual review of significant information requests. So it's like the City Manager will | 01:36:18 | |
| compile an annual report summarizing the nature and scope of significant information requests received by State Council, the | 01:36:24 | |
| resources required to fulfill the request, and any issues encountered. | 01:36:30 | |
| This report will be presented the City Council for review and consider and consideration for the adjustment and these limitations. | 01:36:37 | |
| So let's so now we're codifying that if a minority City Council is asking for a lot, then the majority can come in and say you | 01:36:43 | |
| know what, you're asking for too much. We're not going to let it. And it's like that. That shouldn't be in code. Well, the intent | 01:36:50 | |
| there would be for their for council to receive a report annually that would say. | 01:36:56 | |
| These were the demands put on staff time for information. I don't think the intent behind that is to try to point fingers is just | 01:37:04 | |
| try to help help the council understand, are we? | 01:37:09 | |
| I think maybe we're just working off the precedent of the city is that we've always generally respected the the people over | 01:37:46 | |
| whoever the staff are. So for us, we've always said, hey, city manager, we would like this. And the city manager looks for who out | 01:37:54 | |
| of the staff have the time to fulfill that purpose. And if they don't have that time, that way we're not having people work | 01:38:02 | |
| overtime or come in early or do things like that and they're able to facilitate. | 01:38:10 | |
| Proper production that's efficient to maximizing what you are asking for, what the total council is asking for. And if that time | 01:38:19 | |
| starts taking too much away from the priorities that the full council set and think that's where the parameters are coming in | 01:38:25 | |
| here, but I think it would be fair to maybe. | 01:38:31 | |
| You could all meet in small working groups and go through this. Are there any other high level points? I think that I think we can | 01:38:37 | |
| find agreement of what I would say is because this is so much of an adjustment that citizens should at least get two weeks to see | 01:38:44 | |
| the final version and then a public comment. Because like sometimes there's consequences and unintended consequences and you can't | 01:38:50 | |
| look at it in terms of like the current makeup of the council right now or the current problem. You have to look at it like in the | 01:38:57 | |
| future. | 01:39:03 | |
| Outside of the issues of the day, right So. | 01:39:10 | |
| I don't think there's any rush on this. I think it's a fair request and I'd be happy to meet with you, Jake. I, I really do try to | 01:39:14 | |
| make sure that we're representing everyone on the council and I do think that same thing when I'm making, when I'm working on | 01:39:20 | |
| policy. How will this affect the council 10 years from now? | 01:39:26 | |
| We don't know who's going to be mayor, who's going to be making the decisions as a council, and so I agree with you 100%. | 01:39:34 | |
| Is this a public document? | 01:39:43 | |
| Yeah, Mayor, thank you for the time. It was helpful to get feedback from everybody and. | 01:39:45 | |
| I'll take a stab at making some changes and I'll make some phone calls to members of the council to try to get their suggestions. | 01:39:49 | |
| And then to the individual members of the council, feel free to send me red line edits or an e-mail or whatever is easiest for you | 01:39:57 | |
| to get information back. And then I'll try to create a new draft and we can. And I also, I also want to reiterate that I, I'm so | 01:40:05 | |
| grateful for the staff, the documents that I do gather they're not attacking. I mean some, I hope they can understand my tone. | 01:40:12 | |
| Thank you, Amber. | 01:41:35 | |
| All right, if we are done with this and there are no further comments on this, I'm going to go ahead and take us to the next | 01:41:37 | |
| agenda item which moves us right into public comment, I believe. Let me confirm. | 01:41:43 | |
| Minutes on the screen. | 01:42:23 | |
| And then if you have an item that all of you would like to share. | 01:42:26 | |
| Citizens acting in inappropriate manners will be, you know, invited to leave, same as always. And we're so excited to hear from | 01:43:06 | |
| you and really learn about what you care about in our community. So with that, we invite you to come up and share. | 01:43:12 | |
| Come on. | 01:43:21 | |
| Yeah, go ahead and stand in line if you want. You can. Forward to you if you want to. I'm Darlene Price. I appreciate you having | 01:43:22 | |
| people lean forward and talking to their mic because. | 01:43:27 | |
| I had a real hard time listening and hearing what they were doing on the discussion here. So that was great Council. I appreciate | 01:43:32 | |
| that my personal my my point and my questions that you can answer later is who is the we that form this document on agenda public | 01:43:41 | |
| comments, request from staff? Was that the entire council that got together and said let's put this together or was it just you? | 01:43:50 | |
| I mean that that's my question is who's the we that did that? Then I said I'm looking for looking at each of the things that you | 01:43:59 | |
| talked about. The big red mark that came out in my mind was that the mayor established the agenda. | 01:44:07 | |
| The mayor allocates the time for personal comments. | 01:44:16 | |
| The mayor requests what can be requested of staff, the mayor or the manager directs the staff. And to me that and finally the | 01:44:20 | |
| mayor decides who gets what records. And so for me, that's a big, a big exclamation point that that's a lot of power in one | 01:44:28 | |
| person's hands to dictate what your constituents want to have done in our home and around in our area. So that those are my | 01:44:36 | |
| questions. | 01:44:44 | |
| The big red flash about what the mayor does on every single one of these things. Nobody else gets a second opinion. | 01:44:52 | |
| And the fact that the we who was that I would like to know. Thank you. | 01:44:59 | |
| Hi, I'm Keith Hold the way I live on Holdaway road. | 01:45:07 | |
| I think it's been three months ago that I asked for a response and the mayor told me that she would e-mail me the amount of tax | 01:45:10 | |
| returned to, to the golf place and, and I and also Larry Miller Theater and she has not done that yet. I'm, I'm waiting for that | 01:45:18 | |
| e-mail from the mayor because it was promised to me. And, and I just want to know that I think I have a right as a citizen to ask | 01:45:26 | |
| that. | 01:45:34 | |
| And I was promised that. | 01:45:41 | |
| I I also remember when I was voted in and and sworn in, I actually had all of the financial. | 01:45:44 | |
| Records as soon as I received the vote of the citizens, I didn't have to wait till the swearing in and I didn't have to wait three | 01:45:55 | |
| or four months later to get every single detail that I wanted as a City Councilman. | 01:46:02 | |
| There should be nobody that waits that long to receive any type of. We voted for certain people and we voted for them to have | 01:46:11 | |
| total access, not partial. | 01:46:16 | |
| That's exactly. Remember to raise your hand, please, no commentary. And that should happen and you ought to make sure as a council | 01:46:22 | |
| that that happens today or tomorrow. | 01:46:27 | |
| Every single item that they want to review, they should be able to review past expenses. They should have the total books. | 01:46:33 | |
| Everyone should. The whole staff should be open to that. They should want that for the public good. | 01:46:41 | |
| And and for it not to be like that is a kangaroo court. | 01:46:50 | |
| I'm done. | 01:46:55 | |
| Chip price Providence I. | 01:46:59 | |
| I wanted to take a little bit of time to just kind of remind you guys that as elected officials, you guys work for us. And in | 01:47:03 | |
| order for that to take place, we need to be able to stand in this room and have and have us express how we feel. | 01:47:12 | |
| Your job is to listen to what we're asking you to do, and if public comments are squelched then. | 01:47:21 | |
| You're not. You're not a representative anymore. | 01:47:31 | |
| You're you're working for yourselves and that's, that's not what our government was designed to do. | 01:47:35 | |
| I have, I have a question. A couple months ago we received an e-mail with a survey that said, hey, prioritize what you guys want, | 01:47:44 | |
| your vision of things, how we're doing. | 01:47:50 | |
| Are those results going to be made public? Are we going to be able to see what the City of Vineyards public view is? And. | 01:47:59 | |
| When? When will those results be just disclosed? | 01:48:10 | |
| That's a question. | 01:48:16 | |
| I will, yeah. We'll answer. I'll answer after. | 01:48:18 | |
| That's it. | 01:48:22 | |
| Thanks Tip. | 01:48:23 | |
| Daria Evans Figured resident. Thank you for this opportunity. I just have. | 01:48:26 | |
| I was really glad to hear that MAG has awarded the city tag grant. I'd like to know how much that grant was for. It wasn't listed | 01:48:33 | |
| in the Vineyard City Facebook page how much that grant is worth and it also it gave the areas that it's going to be distributed. | 01:48:40 | |
| I'd like to know where Geneva Rd. loop is. | 01:48:47 | |
| I have no idea where Geneva Rd. loop is and that's listed on the bottom of the little. | 01:48:56 | |
| Picture it says it will be at Mill Rd. Vineyard Connector and Geneva Rd. loop. So I'd like to know where Geneva Rd. loop is on | 01:49:03 | |
| that. And then also a neighbor asked me about the sun shades back in August of 2023. I asked that question when they will be | 01:49:11 | |
| installed and my neighbor just asked me this past week when are those sun shades going to be installed. So I'd like to get her an | 01:49:18 | |
| answer on that. | 01:49:26 | |
| And then also on the March 4th Vineyard Community, Vineyard City page, it was talking about the Vineyard Community Garden, and I | 01:49:35 | |
| think the picture on there is misleading it. I was looking at it. Oh, that looks really great. It's a picture of the Orem | 01:49:43 | |
| Community Garden, and I think that needs to be credited to the Oren Community Garden. | 01:49:52 | |
| Because that's that is misleading. And so I would appreciate that being corrected. I also spoke with Mr. Ellis in February about | 01:50:01 | |
| the Top Golf tax incentive and he told me that he would talk to Laura Lewis. She's the accountant back in 2018 was doing all this | 01:50:08 | |
| work with the Top Golf. | 01:50:15 | |
| And it would, he said. It might be scheduled for February 28th or March. | 01:50:23 | |
| And he said that 200 pages of document would be provided for for people to look through when that happens, that she would explain | 01:50:28 | |
| it and. | 01:50:33 | |
| February 28th meeting was cancelled and so I'm wondering when that meeting will be scheduled for the public. | 01:50:39 | |
| And then I also asked him about the railroad spur, and he said negotiations still in progress, the Union Pacific is asking for | 01:50:46 | |
| more siding. And so I'd like to know how those negotiations are going. | 01:50:53 | |
| I also missed the special sessions on February and 17th and 19th because we are out of town Tennessee visiting family, and I was | 01:51:01 | |
| hoping that the minutes of those two sessions would be approved tonight as consent items, but they are not listed. And so I'd like | 01:51:09 | |
| to know when they would be available to read. And then also I'd like to be able to read Mayor Fulmer's state of the city that you | 01:51:17 | |
| presented at your February 21st retreat meeting. I would like to go to let me think about the state of the city. Thank you. | 01:51:25 | |
| Kim Cornelius resident. | 01:51:41 | |
| I'd like to say I heard this through the Grapevine, but it's pretty credible. Grapevine happens to be a retired city chief, Fire | 01:51:45 | |
| Chief Jim McGill, and from what I understand there have been. | 01:51:51 | |
| Some pretty different plans put in place for a fire station and it seems very creative. It sounds like it's pretty good, but I'm | 01:51:59 | |
| wondering if you could give the public who knows nothing about this current plan, proposed plan a status update. | 01:52:07 | |
| Because I'm not sure that the water getting to the end of the roof so that we're kept abreast of what's going on. I'm not even | 01:52:15 | |
| sure that all the council members know what was going on. Thank you. | 01:52:19 | |
| Claudia Larae, Holdaway Rd. Thank you for all your work. I know it's kind of a thankless job. I would just like to make a comment | 01:52:27 | |
| about meetings in December. | 01:52:33 | |
| It was very disappointing to be one of 27 people sitting up in that hall that were not accommodated for being able to hear the | 01:52:40 | |
| meeting if people take their time to come, I think maybe while we're making all these. | 01:52:49 | |
| Rules that make. Maybe we should address what to do with an overflow. I noticed there was a. | 01:52:59 | |
| Screen out there. | 01:53:09 | |
| That maybe could have. I don't know if it was set up or not, but I'm asking you please to. | 01:53:10 | |
| Make a plan for that so those of us, you know, if we can't fit in these seats. I mean, people came to hear and to comment. And I | 01:53:18 | |
| certainly understand not wanting to hear the same comment over and over, but just to be able to accommodate the citizens who come | 01:53:27 | |
| in some way. I don't know what the answer is. | 01:53:35 | |
| But I know that there is an answer. | 01:53:44 | |
| Thank you. | 01:53:49 | |
| Karen Cornelius, resident. | 01:53:56 | |
| I consider myself to be a constitutional conservative. | 01:53:58 | |
| And one of the things that I hold dearest. | 01:54:03 | |
| Is the 1st Amendment. | 01:54:07 | |
| And that First Amendment gives me the right to stand here before you and share my concerns about the legislative body, about the | 01:54:09 | |
| things that are happening in this city and about things that I see that we might be able to improve. And one of those is | 01:54:16 | |
| definitely communication. But, and I remember that same meeting that Claudia just spoke of, and I want to read you something that | 01:54:23 | |
| was said in that meeting or to a reporter after the meeting. | 01:54:30 | |
| It's amazing to see people so impassioned to care so much and even on the smallest items, things that I never would have thought | 01:54:39 | |
| would ever come to the discussion, she said. This is meaningful and sometimes it's difficult to explain the law or to understand | 01:54:47 | |
| what is exactly coming before you, but just to see that you people care is incredible. | 01:54:55 | |
| That was a quote from our mayor. We care and we understand. We do our homework. We may not know the law like you do. | 01:55:04 | |
| But we do our homework and we come to these meetings with a level of preparation that is good for us and we deserve respect. | 01:55:13 | |
| I don't trust that we're getting it. I don't feel like we're getting it when you say that. Even the smallest items, well, one of | 01:55:24 | |
| those small items just happened to be the four to one power grab. We sitting out there did not consider that to be small. We | 01:55:31 | |
| considered that to be major. Two others were two Pids that we knew nothing about. I know my time is running out. If you want to | 01:55:38 | |
| handcuff me, that's OK. But I want to finish what I have to say. | 01:55:45 | |
| I I like to keep all the way want to know about the taxes and I want that in a public meeting because. | 01:55:54 | |
| That I had to try and keep forgetting it. | 01:56:04 | |
| I want to know in a public meeting the answer to Keith Hoodways question because that question was asked in public and if we all | 01:56:11 | |
| want to know the answer why do we have to go 1 by 1 to get the answer from someone else that needs to be on public records. | 01:56:19 | |
| Another thing that I'm concerned about is the bridge that has been approved for Utah City. When I see the eyesore at the front | 01:56:28 | |
| runner station with no parking facility. Nobody talks about when that's planned for and I know that there's hopes to be jumped | 01:56:36 | |
| through to get it, but there were also hoops that were jumped through to get that bridge. | 01:56:44 | |
| In Utah City. So I know that there are things that can be done and I know that Julie and Jeff Hartley have some some people they | 01:56:53 | |
| know and some pressure that they can place. And we are really kind of the laughingstock of Utah County the way our frontrunner | 01:57:00 | |
| station has become the over the overflow trap, the overflow. Our new time is up. So we're going to have to wrap up. I understand | 01:57:06 | |
| it is. | 01:57:12 | |
| It's not fair for me to give you additional time when I have to take time with other people. So we can talk about this next time, | 01:57:22 | |
| but let's finish the job at the front runner. Let's not be starting all of these other projects when we've got that eyesore every | 01:57:27 | |
| time we come over the bridge at 800. Thanks. | 01:57:33 | |
| I'm Adam Tushar. I'm a resident in the Windsor neighborhood. So just a few questions I guess about kind of to clarify a couple | 01:57:45 | |
| things. | 01:57:49 | |
| This packet says that this public comment is for items not on the agenda. But the mayor did say something about like you could | 01:57:54 | |
| address items on the agenda. So I don't know if that's a new policy or just wanted to be. No, I think I meant not on the agenda. I | 01:58:00 | |
| might have misspoke. I was reading. | 01:58:05 | |
| The OK, so we'll do away with that. | 01:58:12 | |
| I did wanna make it. Was it an agenda item that was already addressed? Go ahead. OK, All right. So I just wanted to I read through | 01:58:17 | |
| kind of the stuff that about the meetings and I think there was two very specific areas that maybe the counselor, the attorney | 01:58:24 | |
| might consider just some additional clarity. One was I think it was maybe already brought up, but like what is the definition of a | 01:58:30 | |
| prestige really inappropriate agenda item and who makes that determination and just. | 01:58:36 | |
| You know, is that, you know, legally that's obvious, but like what is procedurally mean? And then the other one was what is the | 01:58:43 | |
| definition of there's a part that says strong support from the community. So how is that determined? And that's in regards to how | 01:58:49 | |
| the city manager prioritizes request for information or you know, other things like that. I think that would just be helpful with | 01:58:55 | |
| the public to understand too. Aside from that, I did want to mention I did go to one of the special meetings. I thought it was | 01:59:02 | |
| really great. | 01:59:08 | |
| That's it. Thank you. Thank you. | 01:59:45 | |
| All right. | 01:59:48 | |
| Doesn't look like we have any other comments, Elizabeth. | 01:59:50 | |
| I would like to just add really fast I. | 01:59:55 | |
| President. | 02:00:00 | |
| The same meeting that Keith asked for, the e-mail for the second time I asked for. If we do have to, I don't wanna talk right? But | 02:00:02 | |
| if I do raise my hand, I would love to have some kind of tally system when it goes into the notes to be like when this person said | 02:00:07 | |
| that comment we had. | 02:00:12 | |
| 15 people raised their hand or whatever, right? So that, that if I'm not going to repeat something that at least my voice was | 02:00:18 | |
| heard by my raise of hand. Because I'm telling you right now, she doesn't look up. You look up sometimes you look up every time | 02:00:24 | |
| you look up every time you look up every time. So if we're going to raise our hand in support of a comment or something, that | 02:00:30 | |
| means I'm sorry, something that that's been said. | 02:00:36 | |
| Our freedom of speech is is I agree with what was that our freedom of speech is such a. | 02:00:43 | |
| I mean, it's where our country is built on one of the main things being able to say what we wanted. And I think to limit comments | 02:00:50 | |
| to do anything with public comment is, is such a spot on the face. And I would just also like to say that if we're going to talk | 02:00:57 | |
| about respecting of time and meetings and the flow of meetings, have the top agenda items be your 123 bullet points of the agenda. | 02:01:04 | |
| And if something else happens after and it's been 2 hours, then say, guess what, we're going to move these to the next meeting. | 02:01:10 | |
| So maybe just. | 02:01:50 | |
| Put an important sense that if it doesn't fit in that meeting, it gets bumped to the next meeting. | 02:01:52 | |
| All right. | 02:02:01 | |
| No, I raised my hand to agree with it because you told me to do that. All right, I will be able to address some of these. Darlene | 02:02:04 | |
| Price, you mentioned who's the we. I think Jamie did a sufficient job answering that question early when he presented Jamie, I | 02:02:10 | |
| don't know if you want to reiterate that you that process. | 02:02:17 | |
| Attorneys have privilege. Is everybody OK if I answer that question so. | 02:02:25 | |
| Sometimes things come about organically, so this was not an agenda item where there was one particular council member who said | 02:02:31 | |
| Jamie do this. | 02:02:36 | |
| I have filled a lot of requests over the last three months of we've had this new thing come up. How do we deal with it? And then | 02:02:41 | |
| when I went and looked at it, I realized that we had no rules. | 02:02:47 | |
| Lawyers like rules because it. | 02:02:53 | |
| Set some structure to how we do things. And so I asked the mayor if I could put together some rules for the council to consider. I | 02:02:56 | |
| met with the mayor to discuss them, I met with Marty to discuss them and I met with council member Holdaway to discuss them. That | 02:03:02 | |
| doesn't mean that they were drafted by any of those council members, but I received input from all three. And again with the | 02:03:08 | |
| structure of the meetings, this was in a work session today. And so it's kind of a first read of the item or reaction to the item | 02:03:15 | |
| and then we can. | 02:03:21 | |
| Work on refining it, make it what the council wants, and then at the end of the day when the council does adopt it and vote, it | 02:03:28 | |
| will be their document and it'll be the city's document. | 02:03:33 | |
| Could you clarify, and I'm sorry if you were going to ask us next, but could you clarify the mayor's role because she had | 02:03:38 | |
| questions about how the mayor establishes the agenda and the public comments and direct staff and so on. Could you kind of talk | 02:03:44 | |
| about her executive role and what is state code versus our code? Sure. | 02:03:50 | |
| The Under state law, the mayor is the chair of the council and so there are some functions that follow the mayor by law, not by. | 02:03:58 | |
| Now, we can't change that part of the rule. And so the rules reflect that under state law. But the mayor is the chair of the | 02:04:08 | |
| council. There's a provision in state law that allows certain roles or functions of a mayor to be defined or limited by a city. | 02:04:15 | |
| But one of the roles that cannot under any circumstance be limited is the mayor's role as chair of the council. And that does | 02:04:23 | |
| involve agenda setting and things related to that. And so you do see the mayor. | 02:04:30 | |
| The Office of the Mayor. | 02:04:39 | |
| Identified in the rules throughout and that's really a function of what's in state law. There are some places when you read the | 02:04:41 | |
| document where it says mayor slash city manager slash council. My effort in stating things in that way is to make clear that. | 02:04:50 | |
| If any one of those three say to staff move forward with the request, then it would happen. It's it's an effort, I guess, to be | 02:05:00 | |
| expansive, not restrictive. | 02:05:05 | |
| Thank you. All right. Please hold the way you mentioned that I said I would personally e-mail you and I just want to clarify that | 02:05:13 | |
| my discussion was that Eric Ellis and our RDA Director would be the people in contact with you. What I understand about the | 02:05:18 | |
| situation. And I also stated that if anybody else wanted that information to go and meet with the staff members as well. And what | 02:05:23 | |
| I understand about the situation that you guys are currently working together and trying to solve that problem for that | 02:05:28 | |
| information. | 02:05:33 | |
| Well, I apologize if I misstated it, but I wouldn't have the information. So it would be the two people that did that. So thank | 02:05:40 | |
| you. Can you can you talk to the point? Because this just keeps coming up. | 02:05:46 | |
| Is there certain parts of this private information? I think so. And Eric, if you want to go ahead and clarify it, go ahead. | 02:05:53 | |
| It's this, yeah, this is working. So I have been speaking with Council member Holdaway about this specific topic. He just, he | 02:06:02 | |
| requested that he own this topic directly and in order to pull this documentation, it requires a grammar request. And so I sent | 02:06:10 | |
| the grammar request file to Council member Holdaway and have not received a response on that yet. Why does it require a grammar | 02:06:17 | |
| request like it's tax? | 02:06:24 | |
| To a single entity and so there it's. | 02:06:33 | |
| It's considered private information. | 02:06:35 | |
| So like if they did a grammar request, would things be redacted? Like the information they want would just be redacted? It would, | 02:06:38 | |
| it would more specifically, I don't know what would be redacted, but it would go through a recorder and she would vet that for | 02:06:44 | |
| private versus public information. And, and as a council member, the response could be different than it would be for what was | 02:06:50 | |
| available to the public potentially. Jamie, can you chime in on legal tax reimbursement that a government entity is giving back | 02:06:57 | |
| for taxes? | 02:07:03 | |
| The private number, but we can't share. I've seen in other cities where Saratoga Springs has their Costco annually they post how | 02:07:10 | |
| much money is going back to Costco and they just do A1 pager of these are all the tax deals that we've given. And I know we have | 02:07:18 | |
| quite a few more. And I owned it and said, First off, I don't want to do a grandma. It's like 10 and and I didn't I don't like | 02:07:26 | |
| that approach because it's like I wanted to move this towards transparency in terms of. | 02:07:35 | |
| Could we set forth a policy of A1 pager and every year we update it once that new information comes out and it's just released to | 02:07:43 | |
| the public in January of we paid out this much this year because you know, those Rdas are set up on the economy, right? We're | 02:07:51 | |
| we're making a guest 20 years ago on how much taxes the megaplex is going to go for on a percentage basis over that 20 or 30 year | 02:07:59 | |
| period, right? And it's calculated every year depending on how many people go and do it. And so as a policy. | 02:08:07 | |
| That's what my father's asking for is can we calculate year to date and every year so that because there are certain businesses | 02:08:15 | |
| that don't get any money and it's hard when we do give these better deals through the RDA, it just needs to be public what it is. | 02:08:22 | |
| So if I could just make one more comment, the I'm gonna let you make a comment, but it's gonna go to Jamie. Then I'm gonna go to | 02:08:30 | |
| the next. OK, this will be quick adding the grandma request. | 02:08:37 | |
| And so again, our goal in providing their grammar request is so that we have crystal clear instructions on what we need to look | 02:09:19 | |
| for so that we can be responsive to that request. | 02:09:24 | |
| Thank God. Jimmy, are you council member? Hold the way. Maybe what might help is if we jump on a quick phone call with you and | 02:09:31 | |
| your dad and I can help. | 02:09:37 | |
| I can help Orient you to kind of what information is available and it's out there and then maybe you can pinpoint what exactly you | 02:09:44 | |
| want. I think this could be an agenda item of the policy of staff does this. Yeah. The next thing I wanted to mention is I know | 02:09:51 | |
| the mayor is scheduled in RDA meeting following the council meeting in two weeks. | 02:09:57 | |
| And has arranged for the RDA director to be present to walk through all of the RDA obligations over time so that the public can | 02:10:04 | |
| hear everything and and ask all the follow up questions. But we can get you, you know, basic information of agreements, | 02:10:12 | |
| reimbursement commitments, dollar amounts on those kinds of things certainly are public. | 02:10:20 | |
| Tax receipts for individual businesses. | 02:10:30 | |
| Are not and I think where there might have been some miscommunication between your request and what Eric's looking for is he | 02:10:34 | |
| understood the request to be individual tax receipts and. | 02:10:39 | |
| Put their suggestions and sorry, I don't know the tag grant number offhand, but if you stop by our planning and talk to Morgan, | 02:11:15 | |
| he'll be able to put that and maybe we can add that to the picture or the listing that we put on social media. Thanks for the | 02:11:22 | |
| comment on the Orem Community Garden. We'll send that feedback back to the social media team. Eric, will you make note of that and | 02:11:30 | |
| make sure that we do that the ARM community Gardens page picture. OK, let's see. | 02:11:37 | |
| Additionally, you can find out about the loop sunshade, the Geneva. No, no, the sun shades. I the last time we talked about this, | 02:11:45 | |
| I believe it was spring, but it would be good to talk to Morgan the same or Brian and you could even touch base with Eric and they | 02:11:51 | |
| could update you on that timeline. We didn't want to put them up in the winter because it's just wear and tear on them. So we were | 02:11:56 | |
| waiting for good weather. | 02:12:02 | |
| Right. And have we received them yet? Sorry, I said I'd be quick. No, no, I, I, I think the best opportunity would be to talk to | 02:12:09 | |
| staff and get the full timeline. | 02:12:13 | |
| So that if they know the information best Geneva Loop, Rd. Morgan, I'd like to know what that is too. So the tag grant just to | 02:12:17 | |
| kind of explain really quickly is the technical assistance. The tag grant is the technical assistance grant through MAG. And so we | 02:12:25 | |
| received $120,000 and what? And that's that's for planning funds to help us plan those corridors to make them safer for | 02:12:33 | |
| pedestrians, for bikes to to add crossings we did. | 02:12:40 | |
| We did town halls over there and that was one of the number #1 concerns from residents was that they feel unsafe crossing and you | 02:12:49 | |
| know, but they feel safe in the community. So yeah, I think the. Is it a loop to Geneva? Yeah. So, so So what it looks at is Mill | 02:12:56 | |
| Road 400 NA connection to Frontrunner and then the loop of Geneva on our side of Geneva Rd. Geneva is the state road and it falls | 02:13:04 | |
| mainly within Orem. But the planning grant would look at our trail because there is a. | 02:13:11 | |
| Plan trail on our side of Diva and then coming up the Vineyard connector and making a connection up to the front runner. So it's | 02:13:19 | |
| looking at kind of those corridors for trails and for overall. | 02:13:24 | |
| Bicycle and pedestrian safety. Okay, all right, let's see. | 02:13:31 | |
| And for accommodations for what happens if we have overflow, I think we can work on that. There's a few things that we'll probably | 02:14:09 | |
| have to work through. When you make a public notice, you're not necessarily sure how many people might show up. And so sometimes | 02:14:15 | |
| when there's a public notice, you have to hold it at the area. But what we can do in the future. | 02:14:21 | |
| Maybe is triggered better and then bring that back for a brainstorming session. So that's good. | 02:14:28 | |
| Did not want to do the conversation and negotiations have gone really well. The state has been a great partner. Union Pacific | 02:15:08 | |
| Railroad is coming to a good agreement with us. UTA, as they mentioned are also becoming a good partner in it. And I think we're | 02:15:15 | |
| working on something that's really going to be a great benefit to the city and it's not something that's going to. | 02:15:21 | |
| I think you'll be happy with the outcome. As we get to the other side of that, let's see, special session minutes were discussed | 02:15:29 | |
| by one of our residents. But just to clarify it, because there were only two people, it's not actually a City Council meeting. It | 02:15:37 | |
| falls to a different standard. And so the Open Public Meetings Act is not required for meeting minutes to be taken, but if you | 02:15:45 | |
| request for the video or the audio that was taken, you can listen to it. So if you have questions about that, you can. | 02:15:53 | |
| Reach out to our recorder. Thank you for the comments on the procedural and the public definitions for the ordinances that we're | 02:16:01 | |
| looking at it. We'll also mention the updates for the trail network and I believe that's it. So thank you again for all of the | 02:16:07 | |
| public comments and. | 02:16:14 | |
| I'll go ahead and let you talk about, I mean, is there something specific that you want to address? I just want to respond to the | 02:16:23 | |
| public comment section, so. | 02:16:27 | |
| I don't want to go through all of it unless you have something additional to add that's information. | 02:16:32 | |
| Yeah, I'm just responding to the public comments. So they asking me these questions, right? | 02:16:37 | |
| So I know, so the way that I want to do this is I love the idea that you wanna comment. So if you have something more to add to | 02:16:44 | |
| these specific ideas or information, that's a very specific thing and they're different from your comments. | 02:16:52 | |
| It'll be the same thing now as then. I can wait 10 minutes. OK, let's go ahead and move into it. You can be first. | 02:17:35 | |
| Just for procedure, I just want to follow the same procedure. OK, so for the question period, I just want the citizens to know how | 02:17:42 | |
| hard it is for me to get information from Eric in the I'll say, hey, I would like this and a public comment. I would like this | 02:17:50 | |
| before on the agenda. I would like a policy of putting this through. And it's like, hey, fill out this grammar request and it | 02:17:57 | |
| becomes a lot of homework. And it it it is, it's like slow the roll, right? It takes some time. | 02:18:05 | |
| On tip on your survey results, I read every single one of them. There are over 650 responses and it was very loud. | 02:18:13 | |
| It was shocking, the anger and and I, I think the citizens deserve to see just like Facebook comments, how angry everyone is if | 02:18:22 | |
| they just go to one source or four or five of us, we can just say, hey, everything is fine in the city. And I just don't think | 02:18:27 | |
| anything, it needs to be transparent, right? | 02:18:32 | |
| Sorry, I don't. I don't know about veneer, Lupro or whatever. The picture of the gardens on the garden thing. | 02:18:39 | |
| I think I did see that we're putting out a garden director. So this kind of more of my report. I really believe that the garden | 02:18:46 | |
| group themselves should be picking their own leader instead of having them apply to us. I think it creates a sense of community. | 02:18:53 | |
| Same thing with the library, the Heritage Commission. I don't think it should be appointed. It's just kind of the topic there. | 02:19:00 | |
| They voted on their roles and volunteered on their roles. I think he means the actual appointments that fall under. | 02:19:10 | |
| Yeah, I don't think the appointment, yeah, I think the appointments should just be made by their group, like allowing them to vote | 02:19:18 | |
| for themselves. I think it it, it allows them some autonomy, I think. And going back to the special meeting minutes. | 02:19:25 | |
| I want to work with you guys in good faith and you know, I, I apologized already for the Saturday and Monday and I saw those on | 02:19:33 | |
| the rules of saying, hey, we can't ever do that on Saturday and Monday. And I can agree with that. | 02:19:40 | |
| However, I think that you know with the. | 02:19:48 | |
| I don't know 30 or 30 or so that attended or 2025 that attended. We spent many hours going through a lot of issues and problems | 02:19:53 | |
| and we've got to be able. I know that in good. | 02:19:59 | |
| If if the group doesn't vote to put them on, then we're not going to allow people to know of the pain and different problems. I | 02:20:08 | |
| just think that we're in good faith to just say that it can be listed cuz it's. | 02:20:14 | |
| But I understand by law it can be denied. The next thing is on the fire department. Sarah and I have never met with the fire | 02:20:20 | |
| department yet and we've requested to meet with City Council or on that. And so just if we could meet and know all these different | 02:20:28 | |
| plans and changes. Same thing with the rail spur and same thing with Huntsman, like we request to meet with different things. | 02:20:35 | |
| Claudia, I, I I want to make you feel that we are listening. | 02:20:45 | |
| I think that opening up Facebook comments and wouldn't make it so you didn't have to come here. But I also think it adds the | 02:20:50 | |
| transparency is what other people are saying. And then Karen, just knowing about the taxes and different things on that. And then | 02:20:56 | |
| on your bridge comment, I just wanted to place this on the record. Like I'm grateful that we bring amenities to the state, but I | 02:21:03 | |
| did not know about the 12th North Bridge. I tried to speak with Mr. Hartley. He only gave me the ability to go up to the | 02:21:10 | |
| legislature and learn about that. | 02:21:16 | |
| And you guys know that I've asked them to come down here and ask some serious questions about everything his relationship, and it | 02:21:23 | |
| still hasn't happened. And I wanted to, I want to do that within closed doors. | 02:21:28 | |
| And hey, let's go meet and now I'm like to the point where I think there needs to be a clearing of air grievances and, and just | 02:21:35 | |
| kind of hear things out. And that's why I think special sessions are needed if if we don't want to allow for, you know, Ben Abbott | 02:21:42 | |
| or others that had some issues where we could talk about it openly. | 02:21:48 | |
| I just want to make sure that people understand I'm I'm trying it gets tough and I heard I read it in your in your survey | 02:21:55 | |
| responses and they made me sad. | 02:22:00 | |
| On my report stuff this week, we held two meetings and I'm really grateful for Utah City that came and met with me and Sarah and | 02:22:07 | |
| we held those meetings and we did that in a style in which that it wouldn't have a quorum and so we could speak openly. | 02:22:16 | |
| And I don't like that culture in our city. I think you guys should be able to see me work with Utah City and talk and it should be | 02:22:26 | |
| recorded. And me and Sarah are being separated to where we don't really need to be. We're spending double the staff hour time to | 02:22:33 | |
| hold one meeting at 9:00 and then an hour and a half later do another meeting. And we're doing it twice. And the and the excuse | 02:22:40 | |
| that we're given is that it would have to be recorded and be public. And I just go, I don't remember the culture of this when. | 02:22:48 | |
| It used to not be that way and so I wanted to push back on on that. And then our second meeting about the. | 02:22:55 | |
| Argument about the finances. So the people saw me and you leave that meeting and even today talk about the differences of what | 02:23:03 | |
| actually happened. And I don't like that because I think the public should be able to see that disagreement in those types of | 02:23:10 | |
| meetings. And when I get summoned to those, I go, there's only two of us here there. This is a great meeting where everyone should | 02:23:16 | |
| watch this open debate and go through and do it. And that's what the public deserve. | 02:23:23 | |
| And you guys get to vote us based off of what's happened. And, and I, I get that certain things like a Utah city, like, oh, I want | 02:23:31 | |
| privacy or whatever. And, and I, I, I'm kind of like in certain issues, guys, I want to have this public. | 02:23:39 | |
| Can I respond to one of them? Sure. | 02:24:17 | |
| I guess we'd have to refer to Damien on the whole public meeting because we are following state code. But the whole reason we had | 02:24:20 | |
| we met with Ave. consultants was to help us be employed and educated because it will be presented to the public. And the | 02:24:26 | |
| presentation that we saw today, the transportation, we all saw that. And then we had our questions and we could even make requests | 02:24:33 | |
| for changes and then they brought it to the public. So I agree with you. | 02:24:39 | |
| In the sense that it's great to have more public involvement, but at the same time, I think what you're asking for, if we had a | 02:24:46 | |
| public meeting on every single thing we did, our staff would be monopolized by that. No, their last meetings because we're holding | 02:24:52 | |
| the meeting twice. Well, but to have it in the public, I just feel like. | 02:24:58 | |
| We literally are doing duplicate meetings to avoid the public and it's like to have a public meeting we have to have like 10 | 02:25:06 | |
| people here from staff. | 02:25:10 | |
| To present like this is a working session. We're all working through ideas by allowing the public to see and watch those. I | 02:25:52 | |
| thought the parking decision will be made except in a public meeting, right? Not what I'm saying, but it's like we're doing all of | 02:25:58 | |
| these working sessions quite a bit before to get to it. And it's like, why don't we just do all of these in one time? That limits | 02:26:04 | |
| me and Sarah's ability to talk and your ability to talk because we all can't talk. It's like one is here, one is there, and I'm | 02:26:10 | |
| going. | 02:26:16 | |
| Well, we're doing this to to avoid a public meeting and. | 02:26:23 | |
| I'm just like, why let's not avoid it? Let's just, let's just do it publicly so that we can all come away with, you know what | 02:26:27 | |
| happened? Because it literally is we're just duplicating meetings right now and I just don't wanna avoid. | 02:26:34 | |
| You know, but like, you want to meet with the fire station, which, no, no, no. I'm saying in certain instances. I'm not saying in | 02:26:43 | |
| every instance, like in trainings, yeah, like, hey, you gotta do some things. But I'm just giving the two examples of the parking | 02:26:48 | |
| study that we did and also the Utah City meeting. | 02:26:53 | |
| You're running those trainings or you're wanting to be a part of it. You're also wanting them to be public. Can I, can I speak for | 02:28:04 | |
| a minute? Yeah, I think, I think what Jake's saying is they did the identical meeting back-to-back. So why if if Jake and I both | 02:28:09 | |
| need the exact same training, why can we not be in the training together? I mean, it was the identical meeting, right? One right | 02:28:15 | |
| after the other. | 02:28:21 | |
| Because the public, public meetings have an expense associated with them. You have to have, you're doing a recording, you have you | 02:28:28 | |
| pay for my time, you pay for Pam's time, you pay for staff time. That's all over there. So you have to be hang on. I'm not done. | 02:28:34 | |
| Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. | 02:28:39 | |
| The meeting that we had this week related to your request for financial information and so. | 02:28:46 | |
| We wanted to meet with the mayor and you wanted to meet with the. | 02:28:54 | |
| City manager on that item, if you meet with the mayor, the city manager and Sarah all at once, you have a quorum of the council | 02:28:58 | |
| and so you would have to have a public meeting. | 02:29:03 | |
| You could do it that way, but it would you just go into a closed session and so there's no reason to. | 02:29:09 | |
| Mobilize all the staff, record things and do that if you're just going to have. | 02:29:16 | |
| Look at documents and say, this column looks private to me. I don't need this. This column looks public to me. I don't need that. | 02:29:20 | |
| And so to economize time, the mayor and Eric arranged for Utah City and their representatives to be there at the end of one | 02:29:26 | |
| meeting at the beginning of the other. But it allowed each of you an opportunity to ask questions of the mayor and to give | 02:29:32 | |
| instructions to the mayor and to the city. | 02:29:38 | |
| Manager about. | 02:29:44 | |
| What financial information? So I'm really baffled by the conversation because I hear. | 02:29:46 | |
| I'm not getting information but then they hold a meeting with you to show you the documentation and say. | 02:29:53 | |
| We think this is private. We think this is public. Which parts of it do you want? And then you can turn and you can say to | 02:30:00 | |
| Christy, this is what we want, this is what we don't want. And then she can go back and run reports. It seems really inefficient | 02:30:06 | |
| to do that kind of a conversation. | 02:30:12 | |
| In an open meeting, and yet here we are. | 02:30:19 | |
| Well, I can understand that, but we didn't talk about anything private in those meetings. It was just more of of what we can and | 02:30:23 | |
| cannot share and our quest to be more transparent. So I think it's a good exercise of like because we never referenced one | 02:30:31 | |
| specific or if we did, we could be careful. Hey, I'm not going to reference the name of this or that, right? This is we could | 02:30:39 | |
| have, we could have hold both of those meetings just in our City Council meeting and debated it openly on how what is or is not. | 02:30:48 | |
| Transparent, right? Or when or how are we or how we not sharing because I came away from that meeting and I was like, I don't like | 02:30:56 | |
| that. There's going to be two sides of what happened here, you know, and, and I just want to be more. I just would rather have an | 02:31:03 | |
| audience when things are happening. Like there needs to be more of that. | 02:31:10 | |
| I I feel, 'cause you know. | 02:31:19 | |
| But that's not what's happening. We're in. What we're saying is it was in the public, it went on an agenda to go through the | 02:32:29 | |
| study. The studies been happening. And as I explained, you will be brought into those meetings, you will see it, you will get to | 02:32:35 | |
| review it all. It goes through the stakeholder. Then after that meeting you'll see it. Then it'll go through the public because | 02:32:41 | |
| that's the procedure of policy analysis. | 02:32:47 | |
| Well, and I just want to add. | 02:32:53 | |
| When we started this meeting, this room was full and now this room is dwindling because it's getting light. If we do everything in | 02:32:55 | |
| a public meeting, I have volunteered my time. I do get paid what I believe is a minimum wage, minimal, not minimum, and I just | 02:33:04 | |
| don't see the endurance of the public being able to. I think there are some people that would be able to come to if we had a | 02:33:12 | |
| public meeting every day. I think there's some people that would join, but the public can only do so much and I think that. | 02:33:20 | |
| And so I am trying really hard to take what you guys are saying and put it here. I might not agree with everything you guys are | 02:34:30 | |
| saying, but I genuinely take what you're saying into consideration and I try to represent people as I'm in these meetings. Now, | 02:34:36 | |
| everyone in Vineyard isn't here right now. There's a lot of people out there that I'm trying to think, OK, what would so and so | 02:34:42 | |
| that works. Three jobs that lives in an apartment that you can't afford time to come to these meetings. I want to make sure I'm | 02:34:49 | |
| still representing her or. | 02:34:55 | |
| I don't need to get into this, but I'm saying that asking for more public meetings and acting like we aren't being transparent is | 02:35:01 | |
| really unfair. Because I feel like we really try for all of that and we're not perfect and there are definitely ways for us to | 02:35:08 | |
| improve. But I think what you're asking for is very it's, it's too far off. We can't have public meetings for everything we do. | 02:35:16 | |
| I would suggest since we've been talking about this for about 20 minutes. | 02:35:25 | |
| All right, I'm going to turn that time over to Amber. | 02:36:38 | |
| With my mic on, I'm going to go through this quickly. The legislative session is over. I'll just highlight a couple of bills. HB | 02:36:42 | |
| 488, transportation funding modifications went through and this provides additional ongoing funding for the Transit Transportation | 02:36:47 | |
| Investment Fund. | 02:36:52 | |
| And it also allows a local auction for sales tax for transportation or public safety purposes. | 02:36:59 | |
| Then we also have the Housing and Transit reinvestment zone amendments. | 02:37:06 | |
| Which enhances and clarifies housing affordability and make some changes to the HDRZ zone which we have. And then they did the | 02:37:11 | |
| fizz as well, which is similar to the HDRC which passed which is the, I'm trying to remember what it stands for first time | 02:37:19 | |
| investment zone act. Now that cannot be over the HTRZ zone, but it is another area. | 02:37:26 | |
| Where you can get. | 02:37:35 | |
| Let's see, I'm reorganizing my notes here. So the new tool for city to propose medium density city or Town Center and it is a way | 02:37:38 | |
| to get owner occupation for at least the 1st 25 years. They're looking at getting affordable, affordable homes and the face zone | 02:37:44 | |
| needs to be mixed-use. | 02:37:50 | |
| I can actually go through and just create an overall legislative wrap up for the council and e-mail that out to you so we're not | 02:37:57 | |
| here all day. Fight Commission met. They are going to be updating their priorities. They are working on some bylaws and they are. | 02:38:03 | |
| Let's see. | 02:38:09 | |
| They are next meeting is going to be April 23rd. The Community garden is accepting applications until the 18th so make sure you | 02:38:16 | |
| get those in the following week. They will select the winners by a lottery and the garden director position is opened applied for | 02:38:21 | |
| as well. | 02:38:25 | |
| All right. Thank you, Marty. | 02:38:32 | |
| I'm OK. | 02:38:34 | |
| OK, Sarah. | 02:38:36 | |
| I just wanted to thank nothing for the new flag. I appreciate it. | 02:38:40 | |
| Tip, I apologize, I did not mention the survey results and they will be posted. I believe the team putting that together will be | 02:38:46 | |
| posting it. So you'll be you'll have the opportunities to get and I appreciate Jake mentioning the 12 NI can't remember who talked | 02:38:52 | |
| about the parking lot for UTA. It's been under negotiation for some time of seeing when they're going to put financing and how we | 02:38:58 | |
| can help them and what we can do to facilitate that improvement. | 02:39:05 | |
| But. | 02:39:13 | |
| I think something that should be discussed here is as we work on opening up access for 16th and Vineyard Connector and 12th North | 02:39:14 | |
| and 4th North and the the station that they are all projects that are being simultaneously worked on. Because if we were just to | 02:39:22 | |
| focus on just the front runner space and parking lot, we wouldn't be be able to take care of the infrastructure that's necessary | 02:39:30 | |
| for the city. So 1200 N was funded which was exciting. | 02:39:38 | |
| And at the same time, I talked to Sarah about this and she said, why aren't we articulating this better? But we're also working | 02:39:46 | |
| very. | 02:39:49 | |
| Hard on opening up the access point at 400 N, not just on the main line. | 02:39:54 | |
| By trail aside, but also the Geneva access point, so both sides. So we talked about it a lot, but I want to emphasize that we're | 02:40:01 | |
| working on that project we're working on. | 02:40:06 | |
| Widening 800 N, as we saw in our transportation. | 02:40:13 | |
| All of these things are being worked on together. We have a great team that's been working on all of these things. So if you have | 02:40:16 | |
| suggestions for them, if you're noticing an issue, Please remember to send it into our city as well. Yeah, our government | 02:40:21 | |
| consultants will be here at the next meeting. OK? So if you have questions on the legislative recap, they'll be here to answer | 02:40:25 | |
| those questions as well. | 02:40:30 | |
| So I just wonder if there's a way there's so many people that are curious about the comments in the sessions that Jake and I had. | 02:40:38 | |
| Is it possible to put an attachment on the city page so if people want to go and look at them, they can They can dig through and | 02:40:46 | |
| read everything that was commented. And then another thing, did you guys get those? I sent them over. Yeah, we have them all typed | 02:40:52 | |
| up. I sent them to you, Eric. Did you get them? | 02:40:58 | |
| All of the sticky, the post it note you, you got them. So they've all been typed up. None of you guys responded. So I was like, | 02:41:05 | |
| David Laurie, thank you very much. And so you have all those. So is it, is it possible to do an attachment on either the social | 02:41:12 | |
| media page or somewhere else where people can have access to them? | 02:41:18 | |
| Awesome. And then and then Mayor, I appreciate you. | 02:41:27 | |
| Acknowledging our conversation with 1200 N versus 400 NI, think part of the frustration that you here today is that a lot of the | 02:41:32 | |
| citizens feel like their request and their concerns are falling on deaf ears and they don't get an update that we're actually | 02:41:39 | |
| taking them seriously. And I feel like the more we acknowledge what they're saying and they start to see that we are actually | 02:41:47 | |
| implementing their concerns and their frustration that a lot of the dynamic and the energy will change. | 02:41:55 | |
| That comment that you did, just like how can we articulate it more because we might be saying it in the transportation plan, we | 02:42:03 | |
| might be making a brief update about it, but just really hammering on here are our plans. This is what we're doing is a good | 02:42:09 | |
| point, Sarah, thank you. So they can start to see that absolutely concerns are implemented. Yeah, I agree with you. All right, | 02:42:16 | |
| let's go ahead and move on to our consent items. If there isn't any discussion that needs to be had, I just need a motion. | 02:42:22 | |
| I move to approve the consent items as presented. All right, first by Amber. | 02:42:30 | |
| Did we? | 02:42:38 | |
| I thought something's removed off and something's removed on, right? | 02:42:41 | |
| We're just doing the meeting minutes and the historical flag. That's right. Yep. | 02:42:46 | |
| Are we putting the historical flag up? Is that what we're doing? Amber, let's go ahead and do 6.1 and 6.2. I move to approve item | 02:42:52 | |
| 6.1 and 6.2. Great. Can I get a second? Second. Thank you, Marley. First by Amber, second by Marty. All in favor. Aye. 6.3 is up | 02:43:00 | |
| for discussing. Go ahead, Jake. I just think we need to be on the record of what flag we're voting for because I want to be for | 02:43:07 | |
| the old historical flag flag if they do. Sarah, did you want to go ahead and introduce the topic? | 02:43:15 | |
| Well, yeah, I I asked for that, for the historic flag to be flown. I know there's it's been kind of a divisive issue. And so I'm | 02:43:23 | |
| not opposed to flying them both, but I think they both need to be represented. | 02:43:30 | |
| And do you need, can you clarify how we would have to do it so that it's understood by the public? There was a law passed during | 02:43:38 | |
| the last legislative session that if you fly both, that you fly the new one higher than the old one. | 02:43:44 | |
| Right now. So if you if you fly both, that's the way you have to do it. | 02:43:52 | |
| What if you have a second flag? I'm OK with that. All right, everybody, this item then would be to make sure that we fly the | 02:43:57 | |
| original flag as well. So any other discussion on it? One quick point. Yeah, the legislation that passed dictates when that flag | 02:44:04 | |
| is the historical flag is flown and it is flown on the 12 historic or the 12 legal holidays of the year. And so that was those are | 02:44:12 | |
| the days that we will be flying that flag. Oh, so we're not going to have it up all the time just on those holidays. | 02:44:19 | |
| We can't fight all the time. The law dictated that it be flown on legal holidays. | 02:44:28 | |
| That I thought we could, I thought that you could always choose to have both. You know what, how about this? Let's clarify it | 02:44:35 | |
| because I, I was under the same assumption, but let's just clarify and then our vote will go with whatever the law states. Does | 02:44:39 | |
| that work? | 02:44:44 | |
| Yeah, let me make sure I understand it. So if the law allows flexibility, then we fly both all the time. If the law restricts the | 02:44:50 | |
| flying of the historic flag to the holidays, then we follow that. Does that work? Okay, we did our best. Is there any debate? | 02:44:56 | |
| Yeah, and I think we all love the idea, so. | 02:45:03 | |
| I just need a motion if no other discussions moving forward. So I'll move to approve item 6.3 with the clarification that we will | 02:45:10 | |
| follow state mandated state law. | 02:45:17 | |
| Yeah. Is that clear enough? OK, first by Marty. | 02:45:25 | |
| Second, Second by Amber, All in favor, aye. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to business Item Public Hearing 8.1 Budget | 02:45:29 | |
| Amendment Resolution 2024-1. | 02:45:34 | |
| And Chrissy, our Finance Director, will present this proposed change. | 02:45:39 | |
| It's Christy Bayless, finance director. | 02:45:47 | |
| I think we've all had a chance to review this. It's pretty cut and dried. When we do a budget, we project taxes that we anticipate | 02:45:49 | |
| coming in throughout the years the county gives us. | 02:45:55 | |
| Because that too collects the property taxes as they give us. It's an idea of over, over or we're under. This year we projected a | 02:46:01 | |
| little bit low, so the sun's coming a little bit more and move that there. We would like to take the money that we have gotten | 02:46:07 | |
| from that and put it towards a senior planner position. I think you have all heard how how many master plans we have going on and | 02:46:13 | |
| the things that are happening with that department and it is definitely a need. The second thing I want to bring to your attention | 02:46:19 | |
| is. | 02:46:25 | |
| A ULA grant that we received for the 22,500 that is going to go towards putting sand volleyball pits down on the lakefront. | 02:46:32 | |
| Awesome. OK, Can I get a motion to open a public hearing? | 02:46:42 | |
| Thank you. Marty, can I get a second? Thanks, Jake. All in favor, Aye. All right. We're in a public hearing. Is there any comments | 02:46:48 | |
| from the public? We had a public hearing on this and then we continued it so that you would ask additional questions. So Daria, | 02:46:53 | |
| come up to the microphone, state your name, where you're from and what your question is. | 02:46:59 | |
| Daria Evans in your resident. I just have a question for Morgan. Those staff volleyball kids, are they going to be on the Vineyard | 02:47:11 | |
| beats? | 02:47:15 | |
| Where are they going, you said, the lake Fritz? Or are they going to be on that new Vineyard beach? | 02:47:20 | |
| So I know that our Parks and Recreation director is looking at a few spots, I think near near the beach, but also there's the, the | 02:47:25 | |
| townhomes that at lakefront community that are just South of that. There's a public easement on either side of the, the clubhouse. | 02:47:32 | |
| And we, we're in the process of working with edge homes. The developer develops that to try and clear that that area. But that | 02:47:40 | |
| actually might be a really good spot too, because it's, it would be sandwiched between the two public trails. | 02:47:47 | |
| And then access via the easement. So I think he's considering kind of both spots. OK, So that spot you're talking about, that's | 02:47:55 | |
| that weedy area that used to be kind of grassy. And now it's just. Yeah. And hopefully we can get that cleaned up soon so that | 02:48:01 | |
| that'll be part of it. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Daria. | 02:48:06 | |
| Any other questions? | 02:48:14 | |
| OK. | 02:48:17 | |
| Darlene Price Villas, this is just a very common sort of question. This year is the first year I've been able to or that I'm doing | 02:48:24 | |
| IRS taxes, right. And so the IRS has asked me when I do my budget and I say, for example, travel, they want to know what exactly | 02:48:31 | |
| the travel went to where I went and why that is considered a deduction. I would like to see the same kind of transparency with our | 02:48:38 | |
| budget. | 02:48:45 | |
| That we've got. So if you say it's travel, then where are you going? List where you're going and how much each one of those are | 02:48:53 | |
| going to cost. Same thing with miscellaneous. What is miscellaneous? Is it screws and bolts for the school buses? What is that? | 02:49:01 | |
| Instead of just putting a big lump sum in a miscellaneous, I would like to see more specific kinds of things listed instead of | 02:49:09 | |
| just a generic travel and this is how much it's going to cost. That would just help me as a person who is now paying more taxes. | 02:49:17 | |
| And to be more supportive. Thank you. | 02:49:26 | |
| Oh, OK. OK. Thank you. | 02:49:32 | |
| All right, any other comments? | 02:49:35 | |
| Hey, something else. There are no other comments. I'm going to close the public hearing. Can I get a motion so moved? Thank you, | 02:49:38 | |
| Amber, can I get a second? | 02:49:41 | |
| I'll second thank you, Sarah. All in favor, Hi. Hi. All right, we are now out of a public hearing. | 02:49:46 | |
| Council, do you have discussion on this item? | 02:49:54 | |
| Sarah, I don't know who. I don't want to go 1st every time. Does anyone want to go first? I'm just looking around. | 02:50:01 | |
| I don't have anything to say, so I'm OK with that. OK. Thank you, Marty. I'm ready to move forward with it. | 02:50:06 | |
| OK. Thank you, Amber. | 02:50:12 | |
| You know, we push this back on the last two meetings just because we're waiting for numbers and we still haven't, we still haven't | 02:50:17 | |
| gotten those. And you know, I, I want to do a complete sister city study of where we are. If we commit to hiring someone, we're | 02:50:24 | |
| not going to hire them for the end of this year. We're probably going to have that position forever, right? And so I haven't seen | 02:50:32 | |
| the finance finances for the fire station. It's a top priority for us. | 02:50:39 | |
| And voted in and so they just don't have the bandwidth without. | 02:51:26 | |
| The additional support and tools to complete the jobs that need to be done with a fast growing city. And so I feel really ready to | 02:51:32 | |
| move forward on this. Yeah, Christie, I appreciate you responding to my e-mail to answer my question where that money comes from | 02:51:38 | |
| and you put it in here. So I appreciate that. | 02:51:43 | |
| Like was just spoken by. | 02:51:51 | |
| Mr. Price, sorry, we moving forward we'd like to see more more explanation besides just miscellaneous, but I feel comfortable | 02:51:58 | |
| moving forward voting for this today with the understanding Morgan replied to me on e-mail. So I understand you have a heavy load | 02:52:05 | |
| and and that this this actually comes from from an excess that you anticipate. Is that correct? So I feel OK about moving forward | 02:52:12 | |
| with it today. All right, if there are no further comments, I just need a motion and this is done by ordinance. So we will a | 02:52:19 | |
| resolution. | 02:52:27 | |
| So we will have a roll call. I move to adopt Resolution 202401 proposed 2024 budget amendment #3 is presented by staff. All right, | 02:52:35 | |
| we have a first fight. Amber, I need a second. | 02:52:41 | |
| Second, Second by Sarah and this is done by roll call Sarah. | 02:52:48 | |
| Marty. | 02:52:55 | |
| Yay, Amber. Aye and Jake. All right, thank you. We will move on to 8.2 Public hearing General plan update Goal 2 technology | 02:52:57 | |
| element. We had talked about this in a prior prior work session. We'll go ahead and start out by opening the public hearing. | 02:53:06 | |
| I need a motion to open a public hearing. Second, Marty, second by Amber. All in favor. Aye, aye, All right. And our economic, | 02:53:16 | |
| our, our community development Director, Morgan Brim will present this technology element that deals with privacy. | 02:53:24 | |
| Great. Thank you, Mayor and members of the council. Let me see if I can get this up a little bit. | 02:53:34 | |
| Scroll in there we go. So hopefully you're I'll speak, so hopefully you're able to see this. So we were directed by the City | 02:53:40 | |
| Council. It was in June of last year to put together some policy or or some additional language to our general plan strategies | 02:53:48 | |
| under the technology chapter that would help guide privacy and the protection of like sensitive information as we implement | 02:53:55 | |
| technology. | 02:54:02 | |
| And so, as we know, technology is. | 02:54:10 | |
| There's always advances and things that could help us from the City side, but we need to ensure that it's gonna protect | 02:54:13 | |
| information of our public. | 02:54:17 | |
| And that information is being utilized properly. And so under these, there are 6 strategies. Four of those are new strategies 4-5 | 02:54:24 | |
| and six. And then strategy three has some additional language. So I'll read through these fairly quickly. So Strategy 3 utilized | 02:54:31 | |
| communication technology to increase public awareness and involvement in city planning and decision making. | 02:54:38 | |
| Strategy 6 update forums on which personal information is collected to include a notice of purpose and use of information. Ensure | 02:55:18 | |
| use of information is limited to those purposes and uses and so we, the Planning Commission, did assign. | 02:55:24 | |
| Commissioner Bramwell, who is actually the state privacy officer. So we're very lucky to have that, that resource to work, to work | 02:55:33 | |
| with us. We worked with him and also our legal counsel and drafting these we did, we held a. | 02:55:40 | |
| A work session with the City Council, work session with the Planning Commission, and also a public hearing with the Planning | 02:55:47 | |
| Commission. And they did recommend approval in their last meeting. Happy to answer any questions you may have. All right, great. | 02:55:52 | |
| Are there any questions from the public about this privacy policy? | 02:55:57 | |
| OK. Seeing if there's none, I'm going to go out of the public hearing. Can I get a motion? Thank you, Amber, I need a second. | 02:56:05 | |
| Second by Marty, All in favor, aye. All right, Council, do you have questions, thoughts, input, things you would like to change? | 02:56:12 | |
| I'm just going to thank you. We're going through the operational. | 02:56:22 | |
| Level of getting all of this put together and it's so expansive and it's going to take a lot of work, but having this framework is | 02:56:26 | |
| going to make it very easy for us and easy for the public to follow along as well. | 02:56:31 | |
| My comment is also I love the grassroots effort of. | 02:56:38 | |
| Morgan and them of how they did that. I would love to do a similar thing exactly like that with public records. I know I just | 02:56:44 | |
| wanted to make it aware of you guys. I've had five or six people that have said, hey, you know, I want your records on your phone | 02:56:50 | |
| or I want this and that. And I'm like, well, they're on my private phone right now. I'd I'd give you my phone, look at it, but I | 02:56:56 | |
| don't, you know, and so I think a great general plan update or a great records request that citizens each of you guys could put | 02:57:02 | |
| someone on it. | 02:57:08 | |
| You know, I could suggest people that support you guys that want it and I can suggest people and just. | 02:57:16 | |
| Look at it and go above and beyond the grammar process. | 02:57:21 | |
| You know, so I just I just love how this. | 02:57:27 | |
| Isn't one of us that has nothing to do with anything, right? Yes. I'm saying I do want to say I love this and let's bring it up | 02:57:30 | |
| together. But let's focus on the agenda item right now. Is there anything that you want to add on this privacy policy in | 02:57:37 | |
| particular? Except for you love this plan. Just the culture of how it was created. OK, thanks. Yeah, I feel like it was a great | 02:57:43 | |
| culture. And Amber, thank you. And Chris Bramwell, he's not here, but he really did a great job. And your whole team. | 02:57:50 | |
| Just going out and meeting with a lot of people around the stage and bringing in a lot of voices to us. So thank you for that. | 02:57:56 | |
| Marty or Sarah, do you have any comments before we make a motion? No. OK, then if there's no other comments, I would just need a | 02:58:02 | |
| motion. | 02:58:08 | |
| We already went out of public. And yes, I move to adopt Ordinance 2024, Dash 4 to amend the technology element of the Vineyard | 02:58:15 | |
| General Plan to safeguard privacy and the protection of sensitive information and the implementation of technology as presented. | 02:58:23 | |
| All right, we have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? Thank you, Sarah. Any discussion? If not, I'm going to call Roll call, | 02:58:31 | |
| Jake. Aye, Amber. Aye aye, Marty. Yay, Sarah. Yes. All right. | 02:58:39 | |
| We'll go ahead and move on to a discussion and action items of Vineyard Days celebration. This is a fireworks versus a drone show. | 02:58:47 | |
| You've been able to see the three options presented before you. I don't know who is presenting on this because it is not in my | 02:58:55 | |
| packet. Sorry, this is this is an Anna item, but she was not able to be with us tonight. So the three options are we have a 200 | 02:59:03 | |
| drone show that is 22,000 approximately 5100 drone show that is 15,000. | 02:59:11 | |
| And we have. | 02:59:20 | |
| Fireworks show option with 2 1/2 inch shells is kind of the specifics there, which would be similar to the previous fireworks show | 02:59:22 | |
| that was a mix of 2 1/2 inch and three inch shells. | 02:59:28 | |
| That cost just a little over 14,000. The accommodation that was made for the fireworks show, if that's the the route that you | 02:59:34 | |
| choose, was to put the fireworks show behind Freedom Elementary. They offered that location so that viewers can sit and relax and | 02:59:40 | |
| enjoy the show from Grove Park and not worry about any of the fireworks fallout and and kind of create that safety buffer between | 02:59:47 | |
| the two. | 02:59:53 | |
| And those are the options in front of you. | 03:00:01 | |
| Can I add so I've been able to work with Anna the past few years on events and last year the council voted to do the drone show | 03:00:04 | |
| because I thought it was really cool we did it for the. | 03:00:09 | |
| It was announced 9/11. I know what we had done it before that, but then it got postponed because of the weather, so then we did it | 03:00:16 | |
| on 9/11. | 03:00:19 | |
| I wish we could. I wish our budget could have us do drones every 911 because I thought that was really cool. I thought that the | 03:00:25 | |
| feelings there and that how just the whole program was beautiful. | 03:00:31 | |
| Now without talking about that because we're focusing on specifically Vineyard days, my thought and hope and I'm I don't I don't | 03:00:38 | |
| have a personal preference which one we do, but I was thinking maybe to be able to represent. | 03:00:44 | |
| So there is that option too if you guys wanted to. | 03:02:10 | |
| And we have to go for that. Yeah, that's a good point. | 03:02:14 | |
| Jake, do you have a comment? Yeah, my, my comment is that I think that we have arrived as a city to. | 03:02:19 | |
| Move in your days out of the out of the city and grow like Orem with Orem Fest and the Freedom Festival of Provo and Strawberry | 03:02:28 | |
| Days where it's not controlled by the City Council anymore. It it is, it creates a cultural event to where. | 03:02:38 | |
| You know, you could ask a, you know, I know they caught create 501 C 3S for that. I can't tell you how incredible it is to have | 03:02:49 | |
| service and people. I know that the Heritage Commission used to control it back in the day. There wasn't a lot of people around | 03:02:56 | |
| until then. It got put over into the city because we could do a good thing. And now we have such a great population to if we could | 03:03:04 | |
| survey the city and say, would there be a desire for a committee, an organization for Vineyard Days to be set up for next year? | 03:03:11 | |
| Fire and police and where they and they just do whatever. So I guess what we would need to decide. | 03:05:00 | |
| We, we do have it running through them. This specifically they wanted us to change status on. So the status would be how much | 03:05:06 | |
| you're willing to put towards it as funding, which does fall in this purview. And then second, you could say we don't care, we'll | 03:05:13 | |
| send it back to the committee or you could say fireworks. But most likely if you approve anything less than, I mean 15,000, it's | 03:05:19 | |
| going to end up being the fireworks. | 03:05:25 | |
| Just make a comment. Yeah, I would just like us to consider veterans and people with PTSD as well as dogs, because fireworks do | 03:05:33 | |
| cause issue with themselves. Take that under consideration. I agree. I think that having it publicly noticed, I mean, I don't know | 03:05:40 | |
| if we can make that an official public notice, but making sure people are aware of that is really important, OK. | 03:05:47 | |
| We could work on that. | 03:05:54 | |
| All right. So what I'm hearing is if you want this decision to go back to the committee and give them full rein, you will need to | 03:05:57 | |
| approve the $22,000 so that they can decide between the fireworks or the drones. If you're wanting to have it on a rotational | 03:06:03 | |
| schedule, you would want to state that and then you would probably want to approve the 14,000 for the fireworks within the | 03:06:10 | |
| location that was identified, which I believe is option 3. | 03:06:17 | |
| If there's a different recommendation because you're worried about the veterans, it's it's OK if we notify it if that's the | 03:06:25 | |
| consensus we're building. Does that work for you? | 03:06:28 | |
| I hear so much good about the drones from the community, and I think that that's also a good option to cover that. Would you be OK | 03:06:34 | |
| if we do rotation or send it back to the committee with sending your concerns about it? OK? Is there anybody that would like to | 03:06:39 | |
| take a stab at a motion? | 03:06:43 | |
| Well if if everyone's OK with it, I move to approve up to 22,000 to cover drugs. | 03:06:49 | |
| To cover the possibility of doing 200 drones, but I would like to leave it up to the committee to make the final decision with our | 03:06:59 | |
| recommendation of possibly going on a rotating schedule. OK, We have a first by Marty. And can you also add that we will tell them | 03:07:07 | |
| about the notification that the notification for the veterans and PTSD. | 03:07:14 | |
| OK. We have a first by Marty. Can I get a second, second, second by Amber, all in favor, Aye. All right, great. Thank you. This | 03:07:22 | |
| brings us to the end of this meeting. I'm going to go ahead and adjourn our meeting and then we will be back in 10 minutes or so | 03:07:27 | |
| for our already in need. | 03:07:33 |