|
|
So I know.
|
00:00:02
|
|
|
Roll.
|
00:00:07
|
|
|
All right, today is March 13th, 2024. The time is 6:00 PM and I'm going to go ahead and start the Vineyard City Council meeting.
|
00:00:10
|
|
|
Council Member Holdaway will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance and an invocation.
|
00:00:17
|
|
|
Please stand.
|
00:00:27
|
|
|
I pledge allegiance to.
|
00:00:31
|
|
|
United States of America.
|
00:00:34
|
|
|
One nation under God, indivisible, with strong.
|
00:00:38
|
|
|
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we bow our heads before the citizens of Vineyard, grateful for the wonderful earth
|
00:00:55
|
|
|
that we live in and the opportunity we have to come and.
|
00:01:00
|
|
|
As a government body.
|
00:01:07
|
|
|
Work together and find solutions to represent the people of Vineyard. We pray today that we might be speak clearly with great tone
|
00:01:10
|
|
|
and a tone of togetherness to be able to work through our issues and problems with the city. We pray for the citizens of this city
|
00:01:17
|
|
|
and also for the leadership of it. And these things we pray for humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. All right, our first
|
00:01:23
|
|
|
agenda item for our work session is our Transportation Master Plan update.
|
00:01:30
|
|
|
We have health engineering with us. We also are fortunate enough to have our trustee with go ahead.
|
00:01:37
|
|
|
Presentation. Oh, just kidding. I was jumping right into our work session, but I totally forgot our Department of Environmental
|
00:01:46
|
|
|
Quality. Forgive me. Jalen Cage and Jason, we talked about before the meeting how excited we were to have you here. We'll invite
|
00:01:52
|
|
|
you guys up. I don't know who's Paige? OK Page will be presenting an update on our Division of Environmental Quality process and
|
00:01:59
|
|
|
kind of talk about the north side of the vineyard a little bit. And then I'll go ahead and introduce you guys and give you the
|
00:02:05
|
|
|
same warm welcome.
|
00:02:12
|
|
|
Well, thank you for having us. My name is Paige Bolton. I'm the program manager for the corrective action section for the Division
|
00:02:20
|
|
|
of Waste Management and Radiation Control at the EQ. And I also have with me today Jason Olson, he's the project manager for the
|
00:02:27
|
|
|
Anderson Geneva project and also Jalen Knutson, she's the Assistant Director for the division. And thank you for having us. We
|
00:02:34
|
|
|
were asked to come today to talk about.
|
00:02:41
|
|
|
One site and specific one site, the solid Waste Management. Or as we like to cure evenly, say, schmooze.
|
00:02:49
|
|
|
Through SI Five at the Anderson Geneva site.
|
00:02:56
|
|
|
So just a little bit about how I laid out the presentation for tonight. The two specific questions that I was asked was what is
|
00:03:01
|
|
|
our corrective action process like how do we evaluate site from your terminus site is appropriate for redevelopment, especially in
|
00:03:08
|
|
|
this place for residential use. So I'll talk about that process just generally and then I will talk to specifically about SI Five
|
00:03:15
|
|
|
and the entire investigation process from beginning to end.
|
00:03:23
|
|
|
And how the status of it stay?
|
00:03:30
|
|
|
So Rick or corrective action, RICKRA is the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act and that is the EPA, United States EPA process
|
00:03:35
|
|
|
that we follow. And it's a set of rules and regulations codified both in 40 CFR Code of Federal Regulation and also is adopted by
|
00:03:42
|
|
|
us under our Utah Administrative Code that we follow. And the record corrective action process answers three basic questions. The
|
00:03:49
|
|
|
first one is.
|
00:03:57
|
|
|
How do we know a site or an area has been contaminated?
|
00:04:04
|
|
|
And how we do this is through a series of one, we discover a site and we suspect there's contamination. So then we do a full site
|
00:04:08
|
|
|
investigation where we actually go out and collect samples of soil, groundwater, surface water, whatever the suspected impacted
|
00:04:16
|
|
|
media may be. And we do that to determine nature and extent of contamination. And by nature, I mean what are the chemicals that
|
00:04:24
|
|
|
are present in the various media, so in this case soil.
|
00:04:32
|
|
|
An extent is.
|
00:04:41
|
|
|
What is the extent of contamination? We look at that both laterally, so across an area, but also vertically, the depth of
|
00:04:42
|
|
|
contamination.
|
00:04:47
|
|
|
So once then we decide that it has been impacted, we go to #2 how do we determine if a cleanup is needed? So we've determined that
|
00:04:52
|
|
|
there is contamination. So now we have to assess the magnitude of that contamination. And we do that through the risk assessment
|
00:05:00
|
|
|
process. And that is both a human health and an ecological risk assessment.
|
00:05:07
|
|
|
And under our program that process follows the administrative rule 315101. And so we will do a screening level risk assessment to
|
00:05:15
|
|
|
evaluate what the both carcinogenic and non carcinogenic risk risks may be for the site. And then based on that we can feed into
|
00:05:25
|
|
|
the primary question of three, how do we know residual, residual levels of contamination are safe to allow reuse at the site?
|
00:05:35
|
|
|
So based on their risk assessment, we know the magnitude of the impact. We can look at what the end use of the site will be. In
|
00:05:46
|
|
|
this specific case that was residential, but from a generic perspective under the record corrective process, sometimes
|
00:05:54
|
|
|
commercials, OK, industrial. So we we look at the various end use and assess the risks according to that end use. And so based on
|
00:06:02
|
|
|
that if the risks fall outside acceptable range for the end use, then we do the corrective action.
|
00:06:11
|
|
|
And that can be something as simple as a scoop and haul of soil. It could mean more in depth treatment systems. And so once then
|
00:06:19
|
|
|
the corrective action has been completed, we go back, we resample the area and then those data become our confirmation data. And
|
00:06:28
|
|
|
then we rerun a final risk assessment using the confirmation data. And then based on the confirmation data, we can safely then
|
00:06:36
|
|
|
assess what the end use can be and if it's protective of.
|
00:06:45
|
|
|
The goal for the site. So that's the general process.
|
00:06:53
|
|
|
So now I'm going to explain how we implemented that across News SI 5.
|
00:06:57
|
|
|
And I apologize, our figures are from older reports, though they're not the best of quality and I don't have a pointer, so bear
|
00:07:04
|
|
|
with me on this too. So specifically in question is smooth SI 5. That was the treated water cooling pond and pipeline and you can
|
00:07:10
|
|
|
see on this figure.
|
00:07:17
|
|
|
The original red.
|
00:07:25
|
|
|
Modified triangle with SI 5. Then in 2007, SI five was divided into SI 5A and SI5B and the the main road you can see is the
|
00:07:28
|
|
|
vineyard connector curving around the 800 N and just a little bit to the north of that and all of the southern part of pass the
|
00:07:39
|
|
|
vineyard connector is SI 5A and then the northern part was SI 5B.
|
00:07:50
|
|
|
And I'm going to talk primarily about those, but I also want to mention as shown on this figure, SA5C is on the top right hand
|
00:08:01
|
|
|
side of that triangle. Thank you. And that was split off from SI 5B for the Utah Transit corridor. And so that was also evaluated
|
00:08:09
|
|
|
separately and I will talk about that one. And then the very northern part, you see a little half circle in the the very top that
|
00:08:18
|
|
|
became SI 5D as in Delta.
|
00:08:26
|
|
|
And a lot of what I talk about when we excavated soils and sediment and 5A, they were stockpiled up in 5D. And just so it's very
|
00:08:35
|
|
|
clear to everybody here, SI 5D has not been closed. It still requires additional investigation. And so we're really going to talk
|
00:08:43
|
|
|
about SA 5, AB and C.
|
00:08:51
|
|
|
So Si 5A.
|
00:09:02
|
|
|
Sorry these kind of got a little out of.
|
00:09:07
|
|
|
Border, but that's OK, I can talk to him anyway.
|
00:09:11
|
|
|
So SI 5A was originally investigated in 2005.
|
00:09:15
|
|
|
And based on that investigation, they sampled soil and those were the old ponds. So they sampled the berms, they sampled the
|
00:09:22
|
|
|
bottoms, they sampled all over the ponds. And it was determined that there was contamination above risk assessment levels, both
|
00:09:30
|
|
|
industrial levels, a receptor level and residential levels. So at that time they decided to do corrective action because they
|
00:09:38
|
|
|
wanted a residential use for the property and so removals were conducted.
|
00:09:45
|
|
|
And they actually removed approximately 215,000 cubic yards of impacted sediment and soil. And they also had done sampling to
|
00:09:54
|
|
|
sample the sediment native soil interface. And so they also scrape some of the native soil interface as part of the corrective
|
00:10:04
|
|
|
action removals. Following that they did a.
|
00:10:13
|
|
|
Risk assessment and it showed that the residual contamination was below.
|
00:10:24
|
|
|
Be both carcinogenic risk and non carcinogenic risk for residential use and in 2008 the site was closed under no further action
|
00:10:30
|
|
|
and per our rules under 315101. That means that the residential risks are below the lowest end of the range and for carcinogenic
|
00:10:39
|
|
|
risk and below the target level for non carcinogenic risk. There was also ecological evaluation and an ecological waiver
|
00:10:49
|
|
|
indicating there were no ecological pathways.
|
00:10:58
|
|
|
Present and SO151A was 5 A was closed clean.
|
00:11:07
|
|
|
However.
|
00:11:14
|
|
|
Later, as part of a transfer of the property to a new owner, the new owner wanted to do some different development and the Ora,
|
00:11:16
|
|
|
the oil reclamation area material. They did some, you know, technical analysis on that material and determined it was perfect for
|
00:11:25
|
|
|
Rd. base and under structures. And so I'm going to jump to this little picture here. I call this my Nessie.
|
00:11:35
|
|
|
Kind of looks like monster. So this or a material was placed into both 5A and 5B and the body of Nestle, as I like to call it, is
|
00:11:45
|
|
|
kind of where the UTA station and parking lot is. And then the neck and Nesty appears to have been like a proposed road or
|
00:11:53
|
|
|
connector.
|
00:12:01
|
|
|
So the problem with the placement of the RA material was that the Ora material had levels of contamination that would have
|
00:12:09
|
|
|
violated the no further action. And so because this material was placed into 5A and 5B, the land use controls would have had to
|
00:12:17
|
|
|
have been placed on these properties. So those might have been industrial restriction, things like that, since they chose not to
|
00:12:25
|
|
|
go that route.
|
00:12:33
|
|
|
I don't know all the land use controls that would have been required, but rather the the owners wanted to redevelop and wanted
|
00:12:41
|
|
|
free use of this property and so.
|
00:12:46
|
|
|
Going back up and 2018 they decided to re excavate the OR material from 5A. So they they excavated the orange body in 5A and they
|
00:12:53
|
|
|
resample that area.
|
00:13:02
|
|
|
And.
|
00:13:11
|
|
|
Redid the risk assessments to show that upon removal of this or a material that has been placed in the area, it is now again
|
00:13:14
|
|
|
satisfactorily removed. That the site again now qualified for what we call corrective action complete without controls. And that
|
00:13:21
|
|
|
designation just means that it's equivalent to no further action. But because we did additional corrective action, we placed
|
00:13:29
|
|
|
material and removed it, it now gets the designation of corrective action complete without controls.
|
00:13:36
|
|
|
So the material that was originally excavated from 5A, if you can see on the figure on the left in the very top, that is where
|
00:13:45
|
|
|
that material was stockpiled.
|
00:13:50
|
|
|
And that material is still up there and has not been closed. It still requires investigation and corrective action. So when we
|
00:13:56
|
|
|
talk about getting residential and NFA status or corrective action complete without control status for 5A and 5B, we are strictly
|
00:14:04
|
|
|
talking 5A and 5B that we recognize that there are areas that require additional work before it can be reused for something else.
|
00:14:13
|
|
|
SO5B was this the northern part and this is the neck of Nessie?
|
00:14:24
|
|
|
And in 5B, again, it was originally investigated in 2005 and it was determined to have excess risk for residential use. However,
|
00:14:30
|
|
|
this site wasn't actually remediated in two until 2018. It just wasn't a priority as far as reuse. So in 2018, they came in based
|
00:14:40
|
|
|
on the sampling data excavated.
|
00:14:50
|
|
|
The sediments from the old pond that exceeded the risk, but at the same time they backfilled with the Ora material and so.
|
00:15:00
|
|
|
This one again, so almost as soon as they backfilled, they started re excavating it. And so in 2018 they they excavated not only
|
00:15:12
|
|
|
the sediment from the pond, but the Ora and this material was stockpiled in that faint green area to the north.
|
00:15:22
|
|
|
Of the red and that material is still there and again that has not BeenVerified clean. It's not verified for reuse. It is still
|
00:15:33
|
|
|
pending investigation. So that is outside of this residential area. So following the removal of the original sediments in the pond
|
00:15:40
|
|
|
and the Ora pond material and the Ora that was in the pond, confirmation data were collected in the risk assessment was redone and
|
00:15:48
|
|
|
in 2020.
|
00:15:55
|
|
|
This site was confirmed to meet both residential and ecological risk for and suitable for residential and that was closed in 2020,
|
00:16:03
|
|
|
again with a corrective action complete without controls.
|
00:16:09
|
|
|
In the B section. Not the green though, correct? Just the beta, so not the proposed SI 5D, not that area and not the green, so
|
00:16:17
|
|
|
just that bottom.
|
00:16:23
|
|
|
7-8 the red triangle.
|
00:16:30
|
|
|
OK. So 5C was the Utah transit right away quarter and again this area was sampled in 2005 for determining nature and extensive
|
00:16:34
|
|
|
contamination. But early on it was known that this would be kind of parceled off as part of the quarter is along those the tracks
|
00:16:43
|
|
|
there and so that area was excavated.
|
00:16:51
|
|
|
And the sediments removed and confirmation samples were collected and it also met residential risk, even though it's not being
|
00:17:01
|
|
|
used for residential purposes right now. It's a corridor.
|
00:17:07
|
|
|
It did meet clean closure, no further action and that was closed in 2009.
|
00:17:13
|
|
|
It's also important to note that when we say we clean clothes both in 5B and 5A, the residential risk levels that were calculated
|
00:17:20
|
|
|
using the confirmation data were orders of magnitude below the acceptable levels, so.
|
00:17:28
|
|
|
There, there's it's not like it was a question. It was clearly sufficiently remediated to acceptable residential use.
|
00:17:38
|
|
|
So conclusion to summarizing that was a lot of information. I apologize so.
|
00:17:49
|
|
|
The I'm going to go back up to the, the this picture. So to be clear, so in five a, the southern half of 5A that is South of the
|
00:17:58
|
|
|
Vineyard corridor, no Ora material was ever placed in that area. So the original clean closure NFA always held for that southern
|
00:18:07
|
|
|
part that is currently developed right now.
|
00:18:15
|
|
|
All of the material, both the original sediments that were in the pond as well as the place or a material have been removed and
|
00:18:25
|
|
|
both by a 5B and 5C to residential levels equivalent to no further action or corrective action complete without control.
|
00:18:35
|
|
|
Human health and ecological risk assessments confirmed that and.
|
00:18:46
|
|
|
They they can be used for residential use right now without restrictions.
|
00:18:52
|
|
|
So I'm going to jump into this.
|
00:18:59
|
|
|
Information you're, you're free to e-mail me any questions, but if you have any questions, I'm, I'm happy to answer them. Great.
|
00:19:02
|
|
|
Any questions from the council.
|
00:19:07
|
|
|
What is the longer term plan for?
|
00:19:16
|
|
|
Those top parts were all the contaminated materials. Still are.
|
00:19:19
|
|
|
So the longer term plan will be just like this, they will be investigated, they will be sampled, the record corrective process, so
|
00:19:23
|
|
|
they will be sampled, we'll evaluate the extent and the nature. Contamination risk assessments will be done depending on the
|
00:19:30
|
|
|
ultimate land use to evaluate what needs to be done to ensure they're protective of what the future use will be.
|
00:19:37
|
|
|
Great. A common question that our residents have is they worry about how deep you can go to see how clean it, how deep you could
|
00:19:46
|
|
|
dig down and see how clean. So as part of the the person extensive contamination, we did vertical as well. So it is cleaned with
|
00:19:53
|
|
|
no restrictions on vertical.
|
00:20:00
|
|
|
Vertical going up or vertical going down?
|
00:20:08
|
|
|
Yeah. So this is the, your house is here. This is this way.
|
00:20:11
|
|
|
We have surface and vertical. Do you have different questions? Go ahead, Sir. No, go ahead. So are you familiar with the Daybreak,
|
00:20:20
|
|
|
the Kennecott tailings issue that they had a few years back because it had been cleared by the EPA and it came back and caused
|
00:20:27
|
|
|
huge problems because the tailings destroyed their foundations. Are you familiar with that? Can you explain that because that's a
|
00:20:34
|
|
|
huge concern here like.
|
00:20:41
|
|
|
It could be clean, but.
|
00:20:49
|
|
|
But maybe not so clean. So how did that clear the EPA and then come back to further problems? OK.
|
00:20:51
|
|
|
Dave Wright was known to be built on tailings and was known to have certain restrictions in place to be protective. 5A and 5B are
|
00:21:01
|
|
|
not built on tailings and we have both horizontal and vertical profiles of the contamination, so we know.
|
00:21:11
|
|
|
That there is not residual buried material under 5:00 AM five feet.
|
00:21:22
|
|
|
Other different level. It doesn't answer your question, Sir. Yeah, I'm just curious. How deep? No, it's OK. I'm just wondering how
|
00:21:28
|
|
|
deep did you guys actually go, do you know?
|
00:21:34
|
|
|
Yeah, they did boring I I don't.
|
00:21:42
|
|
|
Know the depth. So one of the things we do look at is vertical profile. So in order to confirm that we have extent of vertical
|
00:21:45
|
|
|
contamination you either we have to show both clearly decreasing concentrations and or not detects.
|
00:21:54
|
|
|
That I would have if you want to know the actual depth of the borings, please e-mail me and I can look that up. I don't have that
|
00:22:03
|
|
|
off the top of my head. I'm sorry. That would be great. Can you put your.
|
00:22:08
|
|
|
Hey, what's, what's the depth?
|
00:22:15
|
|
|
Yeah, but at least 10 to 20 feet because they did sample groundwater and that was not impacted where they got groundwater. OK, But
|
00:22:20
|
|
|
I don't know the exact. That's perfect. That was going to be my question with the groundwater level and it's depending on it.
|
00:22:26
|
|
|
Perfect. Thank you. OK, thank you, Paige. You're welcome. I had some questions.
|
00:22:32
|
|
|
I'm very concerned just because I've lived here my whole life and.
|
00:22:41
|
|
|
We had a dairy farm on the South side of of Vineyard and we were financed by Geneva Steel or or paid as farmers for wind when it
|
00:22:46
|
|
|
blew over and it would it would blow the chemical over and all the dairy farmers were in the 1970s for paid for that and wind is
|
00:22:54
|
|
|
what brought those over there were in the 1972 windstorm. So we have these piles on the north of the residential that are sitting
|
00:23:02
|
|
|
there that are not clean.
|
00:23:11
|
|
|
And then are going to be moved and picked up and we did have a few dust storms like five or six years ago. So if we're going to
|
00:23:20
|
|
|
build these structures right next to it.
|
00:23:24
|
|
|
You know, there were some harmful smells and stuff.
|
00:23:30
|
|
|
How do we know if we're going to build even closer now that when they do that the wind wouldn't blow or whatnot?
|
00:23:33
|
|
|
Because I know we were taught my grandfather died because of cancer and you know, our families were all many farmers were paid off
|
00:23:40
|
|
|
for the bad things that Geneva still did. And it scares the heck out of us, right? Like living downwind and stuff. So I.
|
00:23:49
|
|
|
Is that like, is it OK? Like hey that this property is adjacent and it could blow on?
|
00:23:58
|
|
|
You just say, hey, we can build up next to it or we will dig out with people living next to it. Like how does that work out?
|
00:24:05
|
|
|
Question a very legitimate concern? Yeah, absolutely.
|
00:24:15
|
|
|
I think I would like to think a little bit because I wasn't prepared for that one, but that's my first one. I would like you to
|
00:24:20
|
|
|
e-mail me so we can come up with a solid answer for you because there are things we do, but it's, it's a legitimate concern. Well,
|
00:24:26
|
|
|
I mean, maybe it's because I'm more terrified, but going to Vineyard Elementary, we would be shut down on downwind days. So they
|
00:24:33
|
|
|
would look at when the wind would blow.
|
00:24:39
|
|
|
And they would shut off the air conditioning and we would, you know, hunker down and, and we didn't know a lot in the 1990s about,
|
00:24:45
|
|
|
you know, what was going on. And, and so with that having been open right there, it's like.
|
00:24:51
|
|
|
It just terrifies me. And then and then, you know, part of the compensation of the farmers where we'd have some really strange
|
00:24:58
|
|
|
abnormal things. I can, you can go to the Daily Herald and see the Holdaway 6 legged cows that grew off of this and it was very
|
00:25:04
|
|
|
strange and.
|
00:25:09
|
|
|
You know, so groundwater is clean, but I know in the 1970s, eighties and 90s, all of these farmers were compensated miles away. I
|
00:25:16
|
|
|
mean, Holdaway Rd. is 400 S and we're talking 800 N And, you know, in our wells, our deep water wells, we're getting that back
|
00:25:23
|
|
|
then. So we don't want to scare anyone, but we're still very, you know, it's like, well, we're going to put home. I know the
|
00:25:31
|
|
|
developer comes and says, hey, we're going to change from.
|
00:25:38
|
|
|
Industrial, whatever, but we're going to now put homes it out of Lugos. Whoa, OK. And then my number two thing is?
|
00:25:46
|
|
|
I work nationally in measurements as the measurements that you use.
|
00:25:55
|
|
|
You say that it's a federal standard, but Utah deviates and creates kind of its own standard, you said.
|
00:25:59
|
|
|
No, we've been we are in agreement state and we haven't OK, so you do you adopt it that makes me feel comfortable. So there's no
|
00:26:06
|
|
|
variation. My my other question is, is.
|
00:26:10
|
|
|
When you turn this over and say hey, this is developable.
|
00:26:16
|
|
|
Is the city then taking the risk financially like in the example of?
|
00:26:22
|
|
|
Daybreak with Utah City, are they signing contracts with anybody that if if something does happen and moving into Utah City's
|
00:26:29
|
|
|
property that they would be able to go? Are they are they signing something that would get rid of the like indemnify them?
|
00:26:37
|
|
|
Since this is plain closure, I would say no, but I would need to that's, that's outside our realm because that is a sale and that
|
00:26:47
|
|
|
is part of the the legal negotiation. Because this is plain closure, it's not like there's residual contamination on the property
|
00:26:55
|
|
|
where there's an environmental covenant on the property that ties to the land. Since this is getting clean closure, there isn't
|
00:27:02
|
|
|
that so any sale agreement.
|
00:27:09
|
|
|
On a clean clothes, it would be between the fire and the seller. It'd be just like a buying a house. There's no disclosure.
|
00:27:17
|
|
|
There's no can the city require a public like a a disclosure?
|
00:27:23
|
|
|
On that, do they allow, do they allow for a city to step up and say, hey, just so you know, you're moving? Because I, I run into
|
00:27:30
|
|
|
people all the time that that don't know that they moved on to a brownfield. This is not brown previous previous. I know, but it's
|
00:27:37
|
|
|
it it's scary because you have so many brownfields that have been cleaned and then we science gets better and you realize that oh
|
00:27:43
|
|
|
this it went somewhere or another. And so it's like.
|
00:27:50
|
|
|
Is there?
|
00:27:57
|
|
|
This excellent question that.
|
00:27:59
|
|
|
Just to make sure that we're protecting everyone.
|
00:28:01
|
|
|
Yeah, I just had a conversation.
|
00:28:05
|
|
|
With someone, yeah, she'll kick me if I'm going out. Please. I had a conversation with someone that was purchasing a home
|
00:28:07
|
|
|
absolutely not in this area in the Salt Lake area. And I asked them, oh great, where? And they gave me the address and that
|
00:28:14
|
|
|
immediately sent off oh because they were in an area that had been under a true brownfields program. And the question I had was
|
00:28:22
|
|
|
does your real estate agent do due diligence because.
|
00:28:30
|
|
|
On any commercial transaction.
|
00:28:38
|
|
|
We definitely have a due diligence program and that is where where some commercial entity is purchasing property, they will do due
|
00:28:41
|
|
|
diligence and that is where they go and look at the whole site history unfortunately while everything is public record.
|
00:28:50
|
|
|
I don't necessarily know that individuals do that, even though they can.
|
00:29:00
|
|
|
So I, I, I can't help you there. I mean, the city can definitely everything that we've done here is public, you know, publicly
|
00:29:07
|
|
|
available. So if the city chooses to have information on the area, that's up to the city, but we don't require it. Would the city
|
00:29:15
|
|
|
get sued or this or the developer, I don't know that be able to say, hey, you're not allowed to, you know that it's clean. You're.
|
00:29:24
|
|
|
Scaring people away, but for the good of hey, here is the history.
|
00:29:34
|
|
|
Think that's a liability between the city and their their voices? Have you looked into that? Do you know?
|
00:29:39
|
|
|
Just protecting people.
|
00:29:46
|
|
|
We'd have to look at each individual property and kind of understand what the city's liability profile would be if we were to put
|
00:29:48
|
|
|
that into place. The general principle on property law is that environmental conditions cannot be discharged when you sell
|
00:29:55
|
|
|
property, so.
|
00:30:01
|
|
|
People would have remedies going back through the chain of ownership, not just.
|
00:30:09
|
|
|
To the person who's selling them the property.
|
00:30:14
|
|
|
I'd I'd be hesitant as a city to interfere with the state law construct on that. I think remedies exist for individual owners.
|
00:30:17
|
|
|
The disclosure requirements an interesting one. We could look at that.
|
00:30:27
|
|
|
I I think you I think the answer you've got from the EQ is probably the best.
|
00:30:34
|
|
|
Which is? It's in the chain of title.
|
00:30:40
|
|
|
And all homeowners or prospective homeowners would be well advised to look at the title report and take it seriously.
|
00:30:44
|
|
|
I know a lot of people here have never seen the animals that came off of this property, but for living here for 30 years, it's
|
00:30:52
|
|
|
terrifying, you know, and I know it's clean and I know they say, hey, it is. And I, I good faith of what, what is and where it
|
00:30:57
|
|
|
goes. But like, you know, I, I go to national DC and, and, and on the brownfields, they come every year and they go, hey, we
|
00:31:02
|
|
|
thought we were good.
|
00:31:07
|
|
|
And this happened and that water spring came up and what we thought, you know, from 1940 to 1999, we, our plan at Geneva Steel was
|
00:31:12
|
|
|
to put the crappiest of stuff Outback, put a fence around it and let that water seep into the ground year after year after year.
|
00:31:20
|
|
|
And that's all it did, right. And so where our wells Holdaway property are 250 feet down into the aquifer, that affected us and it
|
00:31:28
|
|
|
affected our cows just drinking the wells. And so it, it's terrifying to just go.
|
00:31:36
|
|
|
As a good faith neighbor, it's like.
|
00:31:44
|
|
|
Putting a sign up and saying, do you know, as a, as a policy just, and I'm not saying to scare them, but just, and people do take
|
00:31:49
|
|
|
those risks, like I take risks all the time. You know, I drink Mountain Dew, you know, it's not good for me. So, but at least they
|
00:31:54
|
|
|
go through and do that.
|
00:31:59
|
|
|
Can I just, can I just have a quick follow-up? Yeah, I just want to recognize that it is, it is scary, right? There's things that
|
00:32:04
|
|
|
have happened in the past. Yeah, I think.
|
00:32:08
|
|
|
And I don't want to discount any wind blowing from the stacks that we've heard the areas we've created, but I think a lot of what
|
00:32:12
|
|
|
happened previously in that downwind was caused by the state.
|
00:32:17
|
|
|
Right, right where they were running. Yeah, so.
|
00:32:22
|
|
|
Look into any potential issues that might come from wind blown things like that from those areas that have been created with the
|
00:32:26
|
|
|
piles. But some of that I think has been mitigated. Thank goodness, right And taking down the site completely and I think we've
|
00:32:32
|
|
|
addressed the along with the attorney the the site specific. Unfortunately we are not legally able to get in in the real estate
|
00:32:39
|
|
|
transaction. We have to get out of that. We meet here it's reported we make sure that it's safe for human health and the
|
00:32:45
|
|
|
environment and.
|
00:32:52
|
|
|
That's that's where our regulations and but I will say we are conscious of that as we do this, we know that there's residents that
|
00:32:58
|
|
|
will repair so.
|
00:33:03
|
|
|
She was hopping her field, so she took another look at this before we came, even though it was from over 10 years ago. She took
|
00:33:09
|
|
|
another look and it's still protected. So my last confirmation that we did the right thing, then it's still safe. No. My last
|
00:33:15
|
|
|
question is on the settling ponds on the West side of the road. I know the machines are no longer they're still there and they're
|
00:33:21
|
|
|
still sitting in there.
|
00:33:27
|
|
|
You know, that's, that's a settling pun. The water is, you know, there's still water in it. And so people look at that and they
|
00:34:07
|
|
|
go, you know, I don't, they don't, they just don't know what it is. And before there was not only barbed wire, but there was razor
|
00:34:14
|
|
|
wire like a prison. It was wrapped around that thing. And so.
|
00:34:21
|
|
|
I'm just.
|
00:34:28
|
|
|
And I know it's an adjacent property, but then they're going to have to clean it with hundreds of thousands of people right next
|
00:34:31
|
|
|
to it.
|
00:34:34
|
|
|
Yeah, addressing your concern about a UN.
|
00:34:39
|
|
|
Spence, Snoop. Yeah, Yeah. And then we can think about it and address it for you. OK. Thanks. Is there a timeline for when this
|
00:34:45
|
|
|
whole area will be complete as far as you're concerned? When will the piles be handled?
|
00:34:52
|
|
|
I don't. Yeah. Money.
|
00:35:03
|
|
|
OK. And so since it's clean, they can dig as much as they want, as deep as they want right now in the clean areas?
|
00:35:10
|
|
|
10.
|
00:35:18
|
|
|
They can, obviously, they probably won't because if they get close to shallow groundwater, they're not going to have stability and
|
00:35:20
|
|
|
some of the technical properties for the development that they might need. But there is no environmental restriction, right? I
|
00:35:27
|
|
|
knew they couldn't dig that deep of footing down.
|
00:35:33
|
|
|
OK. Thank you. Are there any other questions?
|
00:35:40
|
|
|
No, we appreciate this and we'll make sure we follow up with you guys and then we'll publish it so.
|
00:35:45
|
|
|
The Council.
|
00:35:52
|
|
|
Gov By all means, if you have any additional questions that come up as you talk about this, please.
|
00:35:53
|
|
|
E-mail me and we will think about it and get back to you. Thank you so much, Paige. Thank you all. All right.
|
00:36:01
|
|
|
We will. We appreciate that. And now we will go ahead and move on to our transportation master plan. I have you guys going in the
|
00:36:08
|
|
|
beginning, but we finally made it there. And I was going to say we also have Trustee Acerson from Utah Transit Authority. I don't
|
00:36:13
|
|
|
know if you want to introduce yourself. You're not giving the presentation. So yeah, come on up. Just thought you guys would like
|
00:36:18
|
|
|
to meet him.
|
00:36:22
|
|
|
I felt, I feel a little bit like I'm coming home because I live in Linden, was mayor of Linden for several years. I actually hired
|
00:36:30
|
|
|
you the first time for the Utah Lake Commission. And Jamie, I've worked with him at UTA and I know several of you and.
|
00:36:38
|
|
|
It feels good here. Then here's a good place to live. So you've got good people and they understand the stewardship that you've
|
00:36:47
|
|
|
entrusted them with and.
|
00:36:51
|
|
|
I'm just happy to be working with your mayor. She serves on our local Advisory Council as well.
|
00:36:57
|
|
|
Always has good input and provides great discussion as we try to address all of the incoming people that are moving to Utah and
|
00:37:03
|
|
|
being born in Utah. It's both. But my role as a trustee is I represent Utah and Twilight counties. Those are two of the fastest
|
00:37:09
|
|
|
growing areas in the state of Utah.
|
00:37:16
|
|
|
And we just today in our board meeting passed our long range transit plan and that's online. So if you want to look at that,
|
00:37:23
|
|
|
that's 2050.
|
00:37:29
|
|
|
Some of us won't be around in 20-50, but.
|
00:37:37
|
|
|
Now is the time to look at it and you can make comment on that. It's up for public comment and would love to have your feedback on
|
00:37:40
|
|
|
that so.
|
00:37:43
|
|
|
And I know we're working. I mentioned to your mayor the rail that's right there on Geneva Rd. that's kind of a barrier to you to
|
00:37:47
|
|
|
enter your city. And some places we're under discussions on how we can work with Union Pacific and UTA and U dot and.
|
00:37:56
|
|
|
Try to make that easier to get in and out of your city. So perfect. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right, So Ryan,
|
00:38:06
|
|
|
are you presenting today or Josh? Perfect. Come on up, Josh.
|
00:38:12
|
|
|
Awesome. Thank you. Josh Gibbons with Hales Engineering.
|
00:38:21
|
|
|
Let me just get this connected.
|
00:38:25
|
|
|
I.
|
00:38:28
|
|
|
All right. Well, thank you for having us. It's great to be here again. We were here last. We were here last year. Of course, last
|
00:38:36
|
|
|
week we were able to present to the Planning Commission.
|
00:38:40
|
|
|
And I know we've met with each of you recently as well to talk through the updates. Our goal tonight is to provide that update
|
00:38:46
|
|
|
again for you to look at, provide feedback on. And it's also a good opportunity, I think for the the public of course, to hear
|
00:38:51
|
|
|
what we're working on.
|
00:38:57
|
|
|
Let's get that going.
|
00:39:03
|
|
|
Perfect. OK.
|
00:39:10
|
|
|
So we have a small update tonight to talk through. We have a short recap of things we've talked about in the past with level of
|
00:39:12
|
|
|
service and potential improvements we were looking at in the city based on future demand. And then we're we're we're here to talk
|
00:39:20
|
|
|
about a proposed alternative to current planning and current alignments in the city to get your input and feedback.
|
00:39:28
|
|
|
So a key with this master plan is the road jurisdiction, right?
|
00:39:37
|
|
|
U dot, they own a couple different roads within the city. Vineyard Connector is one of those that was just completed to the north.
|
00:39:45
|
|
|
Geneva Rd. is another one that's owned by U dot. And so within this plan, our focus really will be on city roads and seeing what
|
00:39:52
|
|
|
what improvements the city can work on for future growth.
|
00:39:58
|
|
|
And but we'll also talk about potential UDOT facilities that could be improved or modified to fit both local and regional needs.
|
00:40:06
|
|
|
And so tonight we're talking about, you know, you know, some city roads, some some U dot roads. But I just want to make it clear
|
00:40:13
|
|
|
that, you know, there there are two different entities here that own different right of ways.
|
00:40:21
|
|
|
So in the past as we worked on the plan, we've we've been talking about level of service. As a quick recap, level of service is a
|
00:40:30
|
|
|
measurement of congestion on roads and delay. And so tonight we're going to look at existing conditions and a couple different
|
00:40:36
|
|
|
future conditions based on the current traffic volumes on roadways in the city. What you see on the screen here would be the
|
00:40:43
|
|
|
current levels of levels of service.
|
00:40:49
|
|
|
If you see a green color, that's good, of course. It's a good level of service. It's a little bit more congested as you get to CD
|
00:40:57
|
|
|
and ENF, of course.
|
00:41:01
|
|
|
On U dot roads, levels of service A through D are acceptable and then on city roads, it's the same for arterials. But for lower
|
00:41:08
|
|
|
classification roads like local roads, collector roads, we have a lower or a higher standard, I would say level of service C or
|
00:41:15
|
|
|
better. So with that in mind, if you look at the screen, a couple things to point out would be Vineyard connector and this E
|
00:41:23
|
|
|
section is showing up as orange at level of service E.
|
00:41:30
|
|
|
Sorry, D and so it's still acceptable by U dot standard, but still getting congested. They've made a couple changes recently with
|
00:41:38
|
|
|
striping that have helped a lot, I think. And but still, you know, that's telling us there's we're going to need some improvements
|
00:41:45
|
|
|
down the line. You can see there's a few intersections we've highlighted as currently at level of service ERF and so those are
|
00:41:53
|
|
|
things we're looking at and looking at potential improvements for those locations.
|
00:42:00
|
|
|
As we go to a kind of a 10 year or nine year time frame to 2033, you can see that Vineyard Connector now shows up as a level of
|
00:42:09
|
|
|
service E or F roadway. So something that should be fixed. The good news is that MAG recently approved a plan to make Vineyard
|
00:42:16
|
|
|
Connector go to five lanes all the way along the corridor, which should, you know, capture and, and and handle most of the traffic
|
00:42:23
|
|
|
that's shown on here. So.
|
00:42:30
|
|
|
Really the volumes you see here in the 30 thousands of cars a day that can be handled with A5 lane facility.
|
00:42:38
|
|
|
As we go to 2050, you know and I should have, you know, recap as well that this takes into account all known developments in the
|
00:42:46
|
|
|
city. It takes into account other growth that's projected by MAG, of course. So in 2050 with all that growth, we would expect that
|
00:42:54
|
|
|
we would need more improvements on the roadways. You can see Vineyard Connector would have volumes in the 50,000 of cars a day,
|
00:43:02
|
|
|
which is basically what A7 lane facility.
|
00:43:09
|
|
|
Or greater would be needed to handle that traffic.
|
00:43:17
|
|
|
Geneva Rd. has a couple sections that are congested as was mentioned just barely. Once the rail line is realigned and removed in
|
00:43:25
|
|
|
that area, U dot will have a lot more flexibility to widen Geneva Road to accommodate that that traffic on Geneva Rd.
|
00:43:33
|
|
|
A couple of other spots to point out. 1600 N shows up with about 16,000 cars a day. That's already planned by MAG to go to five
|
00:43:42
|
|
|
lanes. And so this is something that we can easily address with a proposed project in the plan.
|
00:43:48
|
|
|
A couple of other spots you can see Center St. shows up with about 14,000 cars a day level of service D. So what we're looking at
|
00:43:56
|
|
|
is, are there other connections that can be made in the city to take pressure off of Center St. And so a couple things we talked
|
00:44:03
|
|
|
about so far would be new connections. One would be connection at 1200 N to go into the downtown area that that would be a key
|
00:44:11
|
|
|
connection point to take pressure off of Vineyard Connector.
|
00:44:18
|
|
|
And other facilities, same thing with Center St. There's already 400 S, which can take pressure off of Center Street, but beyond
|
00:44:26
|
|
|
that we're talking about possibilities of maybe a 400 N connection.
|
00:44:33
|
|
|
At this location across the rail. So these are different projects we're talking about. Like I said, we've talked about other
|
00:44:41
|
|
|
alternatives to the current alignments that Mag has been talking from, which is what you see here on the screen.
|
00:44:48
|
|
|
And that's where I'll turn it over to Ryan.
|
00:44:56
|
|
|
Perfect. Thank you for letting us be here tonight. So as we look at some of the long range planning that's been done in the area,
|
00:45:04
|
|
|
the current MAG RTP or regional transportation plan, they're looking at future roadways in the area. Several of those are lake
|
00:45:10
|
|
|
crossing. They've identified 3 different lake crossing connections and where they might come across historically. I think as we've
|
00:45:16
|
|
|
talked about it within the plan set and and.
|
00:45:21
|
|
|
As the mayor has been working on it, the one coming across on the 800 N is probably not the correct connection and has been.
|
00:45:28
|
|
|
I think discounted at this point, we show it as a point of reference. There's enough traffic coming around on.
|
00:45:35
|
|
|
Many of the other roads that 800 N would be severely overloaded if that came in and connected as well and we'd be talking volumes
|
00:45:43
|
|
|
that would be more freeway type on that segment of 800 N So as we look at that, we're looking at several different alternatives.
|
00:45:48
|
|
|
One would be the extension of.
|
00:45:54
|
|
|
How the road would come down, but the whole connection of.
|
00:46:01
|
|
|
Vineyard Connector and where it would come into Vineyard, it would come in on the North End just like it normally would, but
|
00:46:05
|
|
|
instead of wrapping around on the West side of Utah City.
|
00:46:09
|
|
|
It becomes somewhat of a barrier for crossing within the city if it goes to seven lanes and has about 57,000 cars a day.
|
00:46:14
|
|
|
And become somewhat divisive or Vineyard City and overall. So what we've looked at is a potential reroute of that that would push
|
00:46:22
|
|
|
it onto the 1600 N alignment shown in that that golden dash line as it comes down from the north and.
|
00:46:29
|
|
|
Makes its way through. I'll try and get the laser pointer up there. I apologize, a little bit harder to see, but as you come down
|
00:46:39
|
|
|
and around that corner, it would go on to a 1600 N alignment and then onto a Geneva Rd. alignment where it would bend and go
|
00:46:43
|
|
|
towards the South.
|
00:46:47
|
|
|
Several advantages that we see with this are that we have multiple connections going over to I-15. Number one, we can redirect
|
00:46:52
|
|
|
that traffic to I-15 on 1600 N as well as giving it a better connection to 800 N and allowing that traffic to flow freely back and
|
00:46:58
|
|
|
forth and all the way down to 400. So we have many, many more opportunities to try and move that traffic east, West into Orem or
|
00:47:04
|
|
|
further down into Provo where it wants to be.
|
00:47:10
|
|
|
Those are some great advantages if we do that and I'll go through a couple more slides here.
|
00:47:17
|
|
|
And just kind of show that connection on the left is the current plan where it comes down around the West side of Utah City, shown
|
00:47:23
|
|
|
in pink.
|
00:47:26
|
|
|
There's a railroad crossing on the North End.
|
00:47:30
|
|
|
Again, I'll try and get the laser pointer over there, but the.
|
00:47:33
|
|
|
There's a great separate crossing, so you would go up and over the railroad tracks to make sure the tracks can can move fairly
|
00:47:36
|
|
|
freely, and then it would come down and touchdown and the traffic would go around. Utah City in its current and present format,
|
00:47:41
|
|
|
the way it's been drawn.
|
00:47:46
|
|
|
What we're looking at is an alternative that is not new to you daughter to Mac. They have also looked at alternatives like this
|
00:47:51
|
|
|
that would bring Vineyard Connector down towards the North End of Vineyard. There's where a little more gentle and followed the
|
00:47:56
|
|
|
tracks and went through some property on a diagonal.
|
00:48:01
|
|
|
Somewhat paralleling on the tracks, and then they've also looked at other options as well.
|
00:48:07
|
|
|
This alternative to 1600 N, we'd still have the grade separation. We'd have to go up and over the tracks, but we want to keep that
|
00:48:13
|
|
|
great separation a little bit longer.
|
00:48:17
|
|
|
And then bend those lanes to where they would go to the South onto Geneva Rd. We would still have a local access Rd. on 1600 N
|
00:48:22
|
|
|
that would come off of the interchange, would go to the West, still providing access into the industrial area as well as the
|
00:48:27
|
|
|
connection of Mill Rd. going North and South.
|
00:48:33
|
|
|
And then on to the West and it would go over.
|
00:48:39
|
|
|
Underneath Vineyard Connector and still keep those local roads all connected.
|
00:48:43
|
|
|
One of the other advantages that we have is that we're looking at a connection on 1200 N, which would continue out of Utah City.
|
00:48:47
|
|
|
Would go across to End Mill Road and then eventually go over and connect into Geneva Rd.
|
00:48:54
|
|
|
Again, having multiple options within a city for that traffic to flow and move around is is fairly helpful from a transportation
|
00:49:00
|
|
|
perspective.
|
00:49:03
|
|
|
It also keeps the traffic volumes a little bit lower.
|
00:49:07
|
|
|
As are shown in this next diagram.
|
00:49:11
|
|
|
Those 2050 future projected volumes is are consistent with what mags long range planning is. They always shoot towards the 2050
|
00:49:14
|
|
|
projection.
|
00:49:17
|
|
|
But what you would see is we're able to drop the volumes on that road. It's still necessary. We still need this road that's
|
00:49:22
|
|
|
coming. The five lanes that are currently planned, projected and funded as those get built, they would remain, but it would remain
|
00:49:28
|
|
|
at 5 lanes and we wouldn't have to increase that to seven lanes. We'd be moving that traffic that's cut through traffic around the
|
00:49:33
|
|
|
edge of the city and pushing it onto 1600 N and onto Geneva Rd.
|
00:49:39
|
|
|
Mill Rd. does pick up a lot of traffic still as it normally has done in the past historically and projections about 25,000 cars a
|
00:49:45
|
|
|
day still within A5 lane Rd. cross section. EW 1200 N would be 5 lanes as it comes across.
|
00:49:53
|
|
|
And then we try and divert that and bring it back down to probably 3 lanes as we come into Utah City.
|
00:50:02
|
|
|
Certainly as we look at the the band where we were looking at, I think it was 57,000 cars a day, which is again above a A7 lane
|
00:50:08
|
|
|
Rd. capacity, we're down to about 32,000. So we're probably 5 lanes through here.
|
00:50:14
|
|
|
That segment between Mill Road and Geneva Road or up to 40. So we're probably going to be looking at a little bit of lane widening
|
00:50:21
|
|
|
there. That would be turn pockets and things like that.
|
00:50:26
|
|
|
And.
|
00:50:31
|
|
|
We create those impact fees, which then are charged to new residents or new building projects that come into the city, and so that
|
00:51:36
|
|
|
the new population is paying for those improvements, not the existing population that's here. It's a good way to disperse some of
|
00:51:42
|
|
|
those impacts.
|
00:51:47
|
|
|
And then we're we're shooting for a plan adoption in May, May to June of this year.
|
00:51:54
|
|
|
Councillor, are there any questions that we might be able to address at this point?
|
00:52:00
|
|
|
Any questions from the Council?
|
00:52:04
|
|
|
I have one, the one that you said was already had already been funded. We had talked before in our meeting that that connects into
|
00:52:08
|
|
|
Pioneer Crossing.
|
00:52:12
|
|
|
Is that, is that right? Did I understand that correctly? What's what's been funded? I hope I say this correctly. I have not looked
|
00:52:17
|
|
|
at it specifically and Nassim might have a little more information on it.
|
00:52:21
|
|
|
But at least through the Vineyard area, it's been funded as A5 Lane Rd. Certainly to the north as you look at Pioneer Crossing
|
00:52:27
|
|
|
and, and what's happening up to the north, there's still some plans that are ongoing up there and, and looking at alignments and
|
00:52:32
|
|
|
the shift of those alignments potentially in the Lehigh City Transportation Master Plan.
|
00:52:38
|
|
|
Yeah.
|
00:52:44
|
|
|
We had discussions today actually with you thought about something a lot different subject and this came up. So any thoughts
|
00:52:47
|
|
|
stated that it is on their long range plan to connect it all the way to.
|
00:52:53
|
|
|
All the way up Pioneer Crossing, excuse me, Yeah, up to Pioneer Crossing, they don't have exact data on it, but just like to kind
|
00:53:02
|
|
|
to kind of repeat what Ryan said is a lot of moving parts that they're working up, working with up there.
|
00:53:08
|
|
|
Thank you. I have one question. I noticed the road across Utah Lake.
|
00:53:17
|
|
|
Got to speak before St. Fire and state lands a couple weeks ago and obviously they own the property there. Why is it always
|
00:53:24
|
|
|
showing that it's there? Like it's possible? Like is that magnet shows that they would do that? Yeah, it's on the MAG regional
|
00:53:31
|
|
|
transportation plan. They haven't submitted anything to forestry pharmacy lands in like 30 years. They always say, hey, here's the
|
00:53:38
|
|
|
and I think I've seen 20 different bridges, right? Or roads and that never happens, right? So are we.
|
00:53:46
|
|
|
Saving property to connect to 800 N, If they do that, is that what that was or is that connecting down an Orem? They were showing
|
00:53:53
|
|
|
potential connection points where they thought it might connect. But I think at this point that it's all hyper 100 is not being
|
00:54:00
|
|
|
considered at this because I saw the public comments on the Lehigh stuff where they're like they went on.
|
00:54:06
|
|
|
I think the process is that they envision it and with this envisioned study, then they go and they present it to FFSL or whoever
|
00:54:45
|
|
|
is in the right of way and then they would go present it and get all the permits and do that type of thing. But first they have to
|
00:54:50
|
|
|
go through this study.
|
00:54:56
|
|
|
OK, similar to Proload running writing a letter. Is there any way our council, I know it doesn't have any power or authority, but
|
00:55:05
|
|
|
could we vote as a council to say we don't want to vote through the lake?
|
00:55:09
|
|
|
I think you could, yeah. I think you could write a letter to, I'm saying US voting as a council, like saying, hey, we don't really
|
00:55:15
|
|
|
need a highway coming through. Oh yeah, we did as as our council body. That's why we're seeing that dotted line through vineyard
|
00:55:22
|
|
|
is gone. Last City Council, the last City Council went and pushed very hard for that road to not connect into vineyards. So we did
|
00:55:28
|
|
|
do that as a council.
|
00:55:34
|
|
|
That will not be a line on the map and the transportation master plan is its finalized. OK yeah I just don't wanna scare anyone on
|
00:55:41
|
|
|
this. If it's so superficial or whatever then probably not show it.
|
00:55:46
|
|
|
Out of our city, so.
|
00:56:22
|
|
|
Anyway, thank you. Any other question? OK, thank you so much. We're going to go ahead and take a 10 minute break and then we'll
|
00:56:24
|
|
|
resume the meeting.
|
00:56:29
|
|
|
OK.
|
00:56:38
|
|
|
Hopefully still we're live.
|
00:56:45
|
|
|
All right. Thank you for letting us have that little break. We're going to move on to 3.2. This is a municipal code title 3,
|
00:56:49
|
|
|
calling a special meetings ordinance 2024, Dash 05 and actually 3.23 point 3 and 3.4 will all be presented by our legal counsel.
|
00:56:56
|
|
|
So I am just going to let you introduce them as you go through. Thank you. I'm going to do them all as the same presentation and
|
00:57:04
|
|
|
same discussion, if that's OK that's great.
|
00:57:11
|
|
|
We.
|
00:57:20
|
|
|
The mayor a few months ago restructured how we do our.
|
00:57:22
|
|
|
Agenda and it was in response to things that we heard from the public and from some of the incoming council members. And so this
|
00:57:27
|
|
|
is my reminder that we don't have a a room, a big room with the conference table where we all can sit around and look at documents
|
00:57:32
|
|
|
and talk together. But if you'll close your eyes and imagine.
|
00:57:38
|
|
|
Is sometimes writing code to me feels like a negotiation that you have on your own as you're putting things on a piece of paper.
|
00:58:16
|
|
|
And when I have clients that I'm in a negotiation remediation.
|
00:58:21
|
|
|
It's often the case that when you come to a good agreement, everybody feels a little bit happy and everybody feels a little bit
|
00:58:27
|
|
|
upset. And I suspect as we go through this with your varying priorities and what you, what you value as council members and how
|
00:58:33
|
|
|
you'd like to interact, that there might be things in the document that will make you smile and you'll say, yes, finally, I've
|
00:58:39
|
|
|
been waiting for that. And there may be some things where you'll say, well, I don't like that that gives that benefit somebody
|
00:58:45
|
|
|
else or that helps.
|
00:58:51
|
|
|
Them and what they're doing.
|
00:58:57
|
|
|
My goal was to try to thread the needle and make sure that we respected the state statutory powers and authorities that you have
|
00:58:59
|
|
|
and that we establish processes that will help you do your work efficiently and help you make sure that you have really clear
|
00:59:06
|
|
|
pathways to get things on agenda, to manage your meetings and and to do things. So a little bit of the why State law requires that
|
00:59:14
|
|
|
cities have rules of order and procedure.
|
00:59:21
|
|
|
Vineyard City does not, I'm not sure why they were not included in the original set of documents, but they weren't. And the cities
|
00:59:29
|
|
|
moved along without them and I think has done a really nice job of that. But they have had a, you have had a council within the
|
00:59:37
|
|
|
city that was largely united on issues. And so having some differences of opinion has prompted some questions about, well, what is
|
00:59:44
|
|
|
our process for this and how do we go about doing that? And I think it would.
|
00:59:51
|
|
|
Behoove us all to have some rules in place so that when we get into those discussions, we don't have to spin up and spend a lot of
|
00:59:59
|
|
|
time asking how do we do this or is it appropriate to do this? But they have rules we can point to and say, you know, yes, we can
|
01:00:06
|
|
|
and we shouldn't. Here's how we do it. So the document that I put together for you to consider is a draft ordinance and it has
|
01:00:14
|
|
|
these items on it. Talks about agenda formation, public comments and hearings, council discussions and reports.
|
01:00:21
|
|
|
How to make requests of staff, what requests are appropriate and how to go about doing it. Council staff interactions and then
|
01:00:29
|
|
|
special meetings. So I just want to walk through everyone kind of an overview format. And then I provided to Pam. We'd initially
|
01:00:35
|
|
|
put this together as two different ordinances. And then as we looked at the agenda, we thought it made sense to take it up all at
|
01:00:41
|
|
|
once. And so I sent Pam and I didn't send it to her in time for the meeting, but I consolidated the two ordinances into one
|
01:00:47
|
|
|
document.
|
01:00:53
|
|
|
She if she hasn't already, we'll circulate that soon after the meeting so you can look at it.
|
01:01:00
|
|
|
As usual, pans ahead.
|
01:01:07
|
|
|
On things. So let me give you an overview and then you have the document in front of you and then when I'm done, we can talk about
|
01:01:10
|
|
|
it. You can provide my input if I don't expect that you'll have a.
|
01:01:16
|
|
|
All of your questions formulated today and so if there are things you need to follow up with me on over the next two weeks, we
|
01:01:24
|
|
|
have time to do it and then we can Polish the document and bring it forward for action at the next meeting. So on agenda
|
01:01:29
|
|
|
formation, the structure under state law is that the mayor is the chair of the Council and as chair of the Council she establishes
|
01:01:35
|
|
|
the agenda.
|
01:01:41
|
|
|
The question that's come up recently, well, how do we get things on the agenda if the mayor hasn't put it on the agenda? And what
|
01:01:48
|
|
|
I'm proposing is that since any 2 council members have the ability to call a special meeting, it makes sense to have any 2 council
|
01:01:55
|
|
|
members have the ability to request that something be added to the agenda. That way we don't have to burden the council or the
|
01:02:03
|
|
|
citizens with additional meetings. We can try to get as much business done during our regular meetings as possible.
|
01:02:10
|
|
|
So the process is that if any 2 council members want something on the agenda, they can submit that request to the mayor in
|
01:02:19
|
|
|
writing. The mayor in most circumstances I imagine, will accept the item and put it on the agenda.
|
01:02:25
|
|
|
If she rejects it for either procedural or legal reasons, she would respond in writing and then if you still wish to have it on
|
01:02:32
|
|
|
the on the agenda, you would have it as a procedural question on the next council agenda. The council can vote and if a majority
|
01:02:40
|
|
|
of the council wants to have it on a future agenda, they can override the mayor. This is a process that doesn't get things on the
|
01:02:48
|
|
|
agenda immediately, but it does get them on the agenda quickly when you think of it in terms of government speed, right?
|
01:02:56
|
|
|
We don't move as quickly as a private organization would because we want to involve feedback from the public. We want to be
|
01:03:04
|
|
|
deliberative. We want to make sure we're making the right decision. So I think it would be about four to six weeks from when you
|
01:03:10
|
|
|
would ask for something if the mayor rejected it, that it would end up on an agenda.
|
01:03:16
|
|
|
Public comment and hearings. This is in line with the city's current practices. It's just putting it on paper and putting it in an
|
01:03:24
|
|
|
ordinance. There would be public comment in the agenda for every regular City Council meeting.
|
01:03:31
|
|
|
The mayor is the chair of the meeting, can allocate time among people. Public comment is not a filibuster. We're not the Senate.
|
01:03:38
|
|
|
And so we want to hear from everybody, but we also don't want, we want to allow time for the council to do the business that's in
|
01:03:44
|
|
|
front of it.
|
01:03:49
|
|
|
And then on council discussions and reports, similar principles, we want to limit discussion to the matter being considered. We
|
01:03:56
|
|
|
want to have equitable, equitable participation so everybody on the council has an opportunity to speak and that as chair of the
|
01:04:03
|
|
|
meeting, the mayor would moderate those discussions and how they would occur.
|
01:04:10
|
|
|
Request of staff. So the basic principle here is we want council members to be able to ask for information from staff to make
|
01:04:18
|
|
|
decisions. It's important that you have that.
|
01:04:24
|
|
|
And that you're informed before you're asked to decide things. We also recognize that you have five people on the council. And if
|
01:04:31
|
|
|
everybody's making really significant demands on staff time, then it can take them away from the core work that they need to be
|
01:04:39
|
|
|
doing. And so we have to have some kind of process in place that would balance that. This is an attempt at that. And you can tell
|
01:04:46
|
|
|
me whether we're close to the mark or off the mark or how to adjust it. But what I've inserted in the ordinance is what I.
|
01:04:54
|
|
|
I'm just terming a significant request. It would be any request that takes three or more hours of staff time.
|
01:05:02
|
|
|
And if anyone other than anyone without the mayor or the managers approval wants to make that kind of a demand or that volume of a
|
01:05:08
|
|
|
demand of staff, we just ask that either the mayor or the manager say that's OK. It won't take away from the time that they need
|
01:05:14
|
|
|
to be spending on other things. Or that you come to the council and the council votes and says yes, we want staff doing that
|
01:05:20
|
|
|
thing.
|
01:05:26
|
|
|
Council staff interactions, The balance we're trying to get here is council need to be able to communicate and to speak with staff
|
01:05:34
|
|
|
that can give them information and can help the council in its decisions. We also have to respect that there needs to be some
|
01:05:41
|
|
|
hierarchy and some responsibility and accountability among staff. And the way it works in cities is that the mayor and the city
|
01:05:49
|
|
|
manager are kind of.
|
01:05:56
|
|
|
At the top of the organizational chart and need to be aware of what the people under them are doing so that they can hold them
|
01:06:03
|
|
|
accountable and so they can be accountable to you. And so the way the code is written is that you, if you have requests of staff,
|
01:06:09
|
|
|
you would direct those inquiries through the mayor or the city manager. And then again if something requires significant staff
|
01:06:15
|
|
|
time.
|
01:06:21
|
|
|
Of three or more hours than it would be communicated to the council and approved by either the council, the mayor or the city
|
01:06:27
|
|
|
manager. So the intent again here is to try to respect those lines of authority so we have clear accountability. But.
|
01:06:35
|
|
|
But also to allow you as members of the council, to make requests if the mayor or city manager who the staff members report to,
|
01:06:44
|
|
|
say this won't be disruptive. Staff can work on this and get it to you. There's no need to come back to the council if they say,
|
01:06:50
|
|
|
you know what, we're pretty overwhelmed with things right now. We can't get to it as quickly as you want. You can come back to the
|
01:06:57
|
|
|
council and then the council can say, staff make this a priority.
|
01:07:03
|
|
|
So that's the ordinance in a nutshell.
|
01:07:13
|
|
|
Can I ask some clarification just on that last slide, so we talked about?
|
01:07:16
|
|
|
Also, having that be, it's the mayor and city manager and then directors.
|
01:07:24
|
|
|
Is it to have the directors be able to approve the request or that you could communicate with?
|
01:07:32
|
|
|
I thought that was also included in that one. I think you're right that it is. Let me look at the ordinance and make sure that's
|
01:07:39
|
|
|
there.
|
01:07:44
|
|
|
Marty helped with some of the drafting and review of this and so.
|
01:07:51
|
|
|
Marty, I'll make note of it. I believe that's in there. But if it's not, I I know it's important to you and we can make that
|
01:07:57
|
|
|
insertion.
|
01:08:01
|
|
|
You also have in your packet memo from me. In the absence of an ordinance like this, a lot of questions have come up over the last
|
01:08:07
|
|
|
three months of.
|
01:08:13
|
|
|
When and how can we make requests of staff? How quickly should we expect to get answers back from things? What's appropriate and
|
01:08:19
|
|
|
what's not? And I've been getting asked those questions by council members, by staff. And so I wanted to put pen to paper and kind
|
01:08:25
|
|
|
of lay out.
|
01:08:30
|
|
|
Under state law, what's appropriate and what's not? The short answer under state law is that council members are entitled to all
|
01:08:36
|
|
|
administrative records of the city.
|
01:08:42
|
|
|
And that cities may adopt rules or parameters around how those requests are to be made. And that's a court decision that's been in
|
01:08:48
|
|
|
place just about as long as I've been alive and it's been unchallenged and and has remained kind of the standard, at least
|
01:08:56
|
|
|
judicially in the state. So then the question is what requests are appropriate? What requests can come from a council member
|
01:09:04
|
|
|
without approval from the council? And so I've attempted to give you some guidance on that.
|
01:09:12
|
|
|
The the crux of the issue that I'm trying to get at in the memo is.
|
01:09:20
|
|
|
There are competing demands on the city. The city has information that is public. It also has information that is private or
|
01:09:26
|
|
|
protected about the people we serve. We have bank account information, procurement information, personal information about people
|
01:09:34
|
|
|
in the city. And if we provide information that would have private or protected information in it, the council has an obligation
|
01:09:42
|
|
|
to also treat that information appropriately. And So what I hope the memo will give you some instruction on is.
|
01:09:50
|
|
|
Sometimes if you want things quickly, the staff won't have time to do the same review it would if it were to receive a grammar
|
01:09:59
|
|
|
request from a member of the public. And I think that's OK. I just want you all to be aware and kind of unnoticed that if you get
|
01:10:06
|
|
|
information from staff that does that hasn't been reviewed in the same way you would have grammar request so that you can get
|
01:10:13
|
|
|
things quickly, that you have that obligation not to share it publicly unless.
|
01:10:21
|
|
|
You talk to Pam or talk to me and get direction of yes this can be shared or no it can't be shared.
|
01:10:29
|
|
|
I hope that makes sense and feel free to ask questions if you have specific concerns about that. It would be nice if we had some
|
01:10:35
|
|
|
kind of.
|
01:10:39
|
|
|
I mean, we are making policy, but sometimes I know in the beginning I would be sent something and it was always really helpful
|
01:10:44
|
|
|
when Pam at the end.
|
01:10:48
|
|
|
Say this is private, not ready for the public side. And I know sometimes I'll receive emails and I'll look at it and I'll have to
|
01:10:52
|
|
|
respond and say what are we talking here? So just like a note towards that's a great suggestion that when we share information, we
|
01:10:58
|
|
|
indicate what we believe it is. I think most staff can make their best effort at that and certainly your director level staff
|
01:11:04
|
|
|
should have a pretty good idea of what things are.
|
01:11:10
|
|
|
My worry is you might get things from staff lower down the organizational chart and they may not be aware of what grammar
|
01:11:17
|
|
|
requirements would apply. They generally just treat everything as if it's private and protected, and that's kind of the default.
|
01:11:24
|
|
|
So please, if you have any question in your mind about what is this and should I be sharing it publicly, give Pam a ring. She's
|
01:11:30
|
|
|
the city's records officer as a reporter. Or give me a ring and we can walk you through it and make sure you know what can be
|
01:11:37
|
|
|
shared and what can't be shared.
|
01:11:43
|
|
|
I guess the, and I mean the real thrust of this is we want you to have the information you need to get do your job.
|
01:11:51
|
|
|
And we can get it to you quicker if we do it in that way.
|
01:11:56
|
|
|
Can I just say one thing?
|
01:12:01
|
|
|
Just to start off, so we're not doing a deep dive into anything, anything that's.
|
01:12:03
|
|
|
Title the draft or his draft across it is is not a record and not to be shared outside of the organization because we're not ready
|
01:12:09
|
|
|
to share because there are going to be changes on it. So that's that's where you can start.
|
01:12:17
|
|
|
That's the first thing to start with. There are other things, but and we can talk about those later, but Pam and I will work with
|
01:12:26
|
|
|
Eric to try to figure out some kind of labeling or protocols that we can follow.
|
01:12:31
|
|
|
In the absence of that, I think we'll just try to mark things private, protected or draft.
|
01:12:38
|
|
|
As we work through them, I spent 10 years as a lawyer for the US Department of Transportation. I, they didn't have really neat
|
01:12:43
|
|
|
protocols for that. I was always jealous of my colleagues with the Department of Defense because they had really strict e-mail
|
01:12:49
|
|
|
protocols. And they had, you know, these three letter codes that were really instructive on every e-mail telling them who could
|
01:12:55
|
|
|
see it, who couldn't see it. And I thought it was great.
|
01:13:01
|
|
|
Are we ready for Q&A? Yeah.
|
01:13:11
|
|
|
Sorry, sorry, my microphone was wrong.
|
01:13:13
|
|
|
I am really concerned about a lot of language. Obviously we're setting up divided government and I.
|
01:13:19
|
|
|
Had a conversation with Nelson Abbott, our representative, about how, you know, we're, we're a legislature, we're a body and we're
|
01:13:27
|
|
|
going to vote as a majority is going to put rules on.
|
01:13:34
|
|
|
All of us, the minority about how the basically how the minority gets to interact with the staff. And one of the things that he
|
01:13:41
|
|
|
said on the phone or we discussed was that.
|
01:13:47
|
|
|
As a legislator, he would never go to the governor and say, can I pretty please speak with this department over here and get
|
01:13:54
|
|
|
permission? Could you imagine the Democrats going and asking President Trump saying, can I go speak with the Department of Defense
|
01:14:01
|
|
|
and getting permission? And I just think it sets a precedence of, you know, obviously, hey, I want this type of information.
|
01:14:08
|
|
|
Go ask Eric and Julie for this. No, we don't. We don't want to give it to you. You know, it's not a, it's not a staff important
|
01:14:16
|
|
|
thing.
|
01:14:20
|
|
|
Of the, you know, the city manager and everything. And if it's like, hey, I'm looking for these finances, it's like, you know,
|
01:14:56
|
|
|
we're, we're here in March and I still don't have the finances, right. So it's like, oh, it's not a priority. Like I just want to
|
01:15:03
|
|
|
know where all of our money has been spent and we're having our budget and it's like, well, it's just not a priority. The mayor,
|
01:15:09
|
|
|
you know, we don't have this. I don't have three votes to do that. So as a minority, we're going to like, we're going to put the
|
01:15:16
|
|
|
we're going to vote in two weeks.
|
01:15:22
|
|
|
And the majority is going to vote how much information the minority gets. And I think that's I think it's unconstitutional. All
|
01:15:29
|
|
|
right, just I'm going to give everybody a turn. Let's go ahead and have Amber and then we'll have Marty and we'll go back to Jake.
|
01:15:36
|
|
|
I just was, I'm curious about specifically which section is concerning to you regarding this. You can make requests for
|
01:15:44
|
|
|
information from the manager or from the department heads, right? And so obviously.
|
01:15:51
|
|
|
I gotta turn. Oh, I guess you get to respond. Yeah, she's just asking questions. So see where it talks about inclusive, like
|
01:15:58
|
|
|
request items. So we put it up there and we ask for documents and it goes, we're gonna put in an ordinance that says I have to
|
01:16:06
|
|
|
then come back to you guys and say pretty please, can I have oversight of what you're doing? Amber, did you have a comment back on
|
01:16:13
|
|
|
that? Which section? Oh, he it was, I think he's talking about.
|
01:16:21
|
|
|
Section C of C Yeah, you said C It was a formation of the agenda. I think it was CC Yeah, the agenda. But also when you're I, I
|
01:16:30
|
|
|
see the.
|
01:16:37
|
|
|
It was more on the document side of things of like, hey, the staff thinks this is too much work, so then we're going to the city
|
01:16:46
|
|
|
managers and the mayor is going to have authority to say, hey, this isn't a top priority, let staff do this. So therefore, what
|
01:16:51
|
|
|
makes the determination?
|
01:16:56
|
|
|
We could.
|
01:17:04
|
|
|
Staff time. Who decides if it's three or more hours?
|
01:17:06
|
|
|
It would just be an estimate of how much time it would take somebody from the staff. It's asked they would get that assessment. So
|
01:17:10
|
|
|
I want to say hold on one second. Is that the end of your comment? OK. You just wanted to know. Go ahead, Marty. I was a big
|
01:17:16
|
|
|
helper on all of this. And I want you to understand my motivations here.
|
01:17:23
|
|
|
Specifically on what you're talking about.
|
01:17:32
|
|
|
So in my conversations with Jamie, Jamie's time is not included in this since he is our legal representative. This is just staff,
|
01:18:40
|
|
|
right? You're our legal counsel's carved out of this, right?
|
01:18:45
|
|
|
I think Marty's point remains. But I I don't want any of you to feel like you can't call me on things I please do.
|
01:18:52
|
|
|
That I think the question is if you if you were to ask me to do something, that would be.
|
01:19:00
|
|
|
1/2 day or a full day effort, if I got a request from everybody all at once, I would have to prioritize it. And so this is an
|
01:19:07
|
|
|
attempt to have a process in place where we can prioritize those kinds of things.
|
01:19:14
|
|
|
And I'm with you, Marty. Like I don't think my projects are the ones that are stopping stuffing cuz I haven't gotten any results
|
01:19:21
|
|
|
from staff. So I think there are projects and there are heavy burden, but I have been waiting patiently. Like, OK. And but I just
|
01:19:27
|
|
|
don't like the majority getting to prioritize the minority. It's like it's when you submit it, we're all equals, like all five of
|
01:19:34
|
|
|
us. So why would the majority get to prioritize what gets out of site? Hey, I, you know, I'll check in with Pam. Hey, do we have
|
01:19:40
|
|
|
this yet? OK now.
|
01:19:47
|
|
|
And it's like, no, we're going to prioritize that. You guys get this, right. For the record, can we specify that staff has given
|
01:19:54
|
|
|
you financial documents, but they weren't what you were looking for?
|
01:20:00
|
|
|
Right, that's what I'm No, I have no, I only have the names of the vendors.
|
01:20:06
|
|
|
It's it's an incomplete statement and I think that's what Marty is talking about right now. OK, so this is my concern.
|
01:21:15
|
|
|
That I did get a vendor list and a lot of the vendors.
|
01:21:23
|
|
|
You know hotels in France travel in England.
|
01:21:29
|
|
|
Restaurants in Ireland, these are companies that are on this vendor list, so department heads are not going to want to talk about
|
01:21:34
|
|
|
this.
|
01:21:39
|
|
|
It'll be delayed.
|
01:21:45
|
|
|
And so majorities don't want to talk about this.
|
01:21:47
|
|
|
So how do I get to talk about? You haven't asked me if I want to talk about it or not. That's a fair statement, but in many cases.
|
01:21:52
|
|
|
Take you're making assumptions that aren't fair. I've asked you not to speak for me. I would be OK with talking about those
|
01:22:01
|
|
|
things. I'm aware of some of those things and I would like to I would be fine talking further into it. And I think that if we
|
01:22:06
|
|
|
talked about it, we would get further understanding right. And we're and we're talking about.
|
01:22:12
|
|
|
But that's why I'm, I'm helping the public understand like they're gonna, they're sometimes in government, Democrat, Republican,
|
01:22:17
|
|
|
whether it be the federal side, the state side or local side where it goes. Wow.
|
01:22:23
|
|
|
Since we're oversight, we're looking at financial things that we're seeing and it's like, hey, I'd like to dig into this. And what
|
01:22:31
|
|
|
I'm saying is that it's very inappropriate for us to.
|
01:22:36
|
|
|
Guidelines.
|
01:22:42
|
|
|
That say the majority, you think you got it in order to talk, in order to overcome this. So I'm just giving you one case example.
|
01:22:44
|
|
|
I'm happy to say that you are and I don't. And I apologize. I don't want to say I speak for you, but sometimes it's like I've got
|
01:22:50
|
|
|
to go fish on a boat to bring this spend out or, or to talk about it publicly or put it on the agenda. It's like, do you have
|
01:22:56
|
|
|
specific changes in mind that you'd like to see? Yeah, I just don't think. I just don't think well, and I'm going to bring it back
|
01:23:03
|
|
|
to the point of the conversation.
|
01:23:09
|
|
|
OK. Were there additional things outside of that? Are there projects I just don't I could understand for agenda items like hey,
|
01:24:24
|
|
|
you need to have three for agenda items, but I don't agree with documents from staff or from you got like me having to go to you
|
01:24:32
|
|
|
and then to the mayor or or Eric and saying, hey, can you guys get them to give me these documents because documents I can take it
|
01:24:39
|
|
|
and go, it's not on the agenda.
|
01:24:46
|
|
|
I just go slowly and I don't like.
|
01:25:56
|
|
|
I think that the valuable time in the next two weeks would be good to address this item to come to some consensus for it to be
|
01:26:40
|
|
|
voted on. So the public comment period. Is this addressed in this too because you went over it really fast. I'm extremely
|
01:26:47
|
|
|
concerned about that. We've shut down Facebook and we've shut down or we've shut it down to 10 minutes. Now the new policy is
|
01:26:54
|
|
|
stating that a citizens must state before the meeting and then it comes up to you to then if there's many of them, we group all
|
01:27:01
|
|
|
those decisions or the topics together.
|
01:27:08
|
|
|
And then only one person gets to speak and and I think we're trending in the wrong direction there. I don't think there should be
|
01:27:15
|
|
|
rules. I think, I think as a council, we have to like this is their time. This is this is their meeting just as much as ours. And,
|
01:27:21
|
|
|
and I'm just.
|
01:27:27
|
|
|
You know, if there's ten people to talk about parking, there's ten people to talk about parking. They all tend to speak, you know?
|
01:27:34
|
|
|
That's because that's not how I read it and I wouldn't be comfortable with that either. Help me, and maybe this is the
|
01:27:42
|
|
|
conversation we have after this meeting, but.
|
01:27:46
|
|
|
The the intent on the public comment period was the state that we wanted to hear from everybody that wanted to speak. The mayor
|
01:27:50
|
|
|
can ask people of a similar comment to group together. You know how it usually works in most council meetings throughout the state
|
01:27:57
|
|
|
as if you have people that want to group together then the chair will give them 5 minutes instead of two minutes or whatever it is
|
01:28:04
|
|
|
and usually the chair will try to.
|
01:28:10
|
|
|
Give people as much time as as they can for the topic and for the number of people present. The way this rule is written is it has
|
01:28:20
|
|
|
a floor, not a ceiling. So it wouldn't limit the mayor or the chair from allowing people more time, But it would prohibit the
|
01:28:27
|
|
|
mayor or the chair from giving people less than two minutes, or from presenting, or from preventing every person at least one
|
01:28:34
|
|
|
opportunity to speak, either individually or as a group.
|
01:28:41
|
|
|
It doesn't like it's written in a way where we're trying to give flexibility to the chair to look at who's president, look at the
|
01:28:49
|
|
|
issue, look at how many people want to speak, and then try to tailor the time accordingly when a quorum can extend time as well.
|
01:28:57
|
|
|
I I just want like I'm looking at the legalese and ox. I threw this out. There are so many things where it says.
|
01:29:07
|
|
|
Almost every sentence in here is like, the majority is getting together to put rules on the minority and we're gonna vote in two
|
01:29:45
|
|
|
weeks. This is ruled on all of us. It's not just and it's not about people, right, but before.
|
01:29:52
|
|
|
OK, hold on. We're gonna. Did you have anything further on your comment, Marty? Well, I just wanted to say I'm willing to talk
|
01:30:00
|
|
|
about the public comment section like if you want to change some of the some of the times or you want to change some of the
|
01:30:05
|
|
|
wording.
|
01:30:10
|
|
|
I I don't think there's.
|
01:30:15
|
|
|
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And like Jamie said, this is brought to the table for discussion. And when I sat
|
01:30:18
|
|
|
down with him and worked on it, it was like there were things that were OK. I don't think that's right. Let's push it to here. And
|
01:30:22
|
|
|
I don't think this is right. Let's push it here. So if there's things that you're not comfortable with, we can still discuss. I'm
|
01:30:27
|
|
|
not sorry. We're having a work session.
|
01:30:32
|
|
|
If I yeah, I agree.
|
01:30:38
|
|
|
Let's wait till Martha's done, OK? Just hold on, Marty. Sorry. Go ahead. No, you're fighting. You're. I'm OK.
|
01:30:41
|
|
|
I just am saying that with the discussions with council members and their reports, if it's going to be hours long, I will walk out
|
01:30:50
|
|
|
of here like that is like Jacob, we need to be able to have efficient meetings, not just like someone sitting here for two hours
|
01:30:58
|
|
|
talking about what they think is right. I mean, meetings actually cost money. Like we're using taxpayer dollars to use staff time.
|
01:31:05
|
|
|
And it's it's not something that I take right. And that's why I'm like it.
|
01:31:13
|
|
|
I don't know if you misspoke, but it to council members can request an agenda item now. Well, previously we've known it as three,
|
01:31:21
|
|
|
but we didn't really have policy on it from what I understand. So now you and Sarah could request anything to the mayor in writing
|
01:31:26
|
|
|
and she would have to give you a response of why that's good. I mean, there were some there were a few things in there was that I
|
01:31:31
|
|
|
talked to Jamie. I said appreciate it because it's been a couple months. I'm like, hey, it's not on there, right. So I appreciate
|
01:31:37
|
|
|
that.
|
01:31:42
|
|
|
I just there, there's a lot of things on here where obviously this was drafted by the majority. And so I know it's a draft
|
01:31:49
|
|
|
document, but if we could, if I could take it back and I didn't want to share it publicly, but it was like.
|
01:31:57
|
|
|
I I would hope that we could have that two weeks from now have a very long public engagement period so people could go through it
|
01:32:07
|
|
|
or have a working meeting off session with me and you in good faith we sit down.
|
01:32:13
|
|
|
I had another promise, but it slipped my mind now. So go ahead to to council member hold the way. I would just say if if you're
|
01:32:50
|
|
|
going to throw darts at this throw them at me. I'm the only one that put it. So it's this wasn't there were no really detailed
|
01:32:57
|
|
|
instructions on you know, make sure the rules include this or include that the context was.
|
01:33:04
|
|
|
Staff and members of the council are are getting and are asking a lot of questions about what's appropriate or how do we handle
|
01:33:13
|
|
|
this or how do we and, and each time what I found was under rule on that.
|
01:33:19
|
|
|
And so my suggestion to the mayor was maybe we ought to put together a set of rules. And then I just looked at what other cities
|
01:33:27
|
|
|
had in their code and there are things you can put in ordinance, There are things you can put in rules. So you could adjust this
|
01:33:32
|
|
|
accordingly if there are things you'd say, well.
|
01:33:37
|
|
|
I don't like it in the ordinance, but maybe I'd like to do a resolution that would have a rule on that. You could adjust it that
|
01:33:43
|
|
|
way.
|
01:33:46
|
|
|
And then again to my comment at the very, very beginning, I think like any negotiated document you're going to on some things feel
|
01:33:50
|
|
|
like, wow, I really won there and I got what I wanted. And on other things you may think, you know, I didn't get what I wanted
|
01:33:57
|
|
|
there. But I, I don't think it's fair to anyone else on the council to say.
|
01:34:04
|
|
|
And so we may, when you say staff to staff, not like department heads, right? I don't think we should ever kick. We ever give
|
01:34:48
|
|
|
staff, I don't think, I hope not.
|
01:34:52
|
|
|
But some councils have or council members, not our council, but I have experience where there are council members who will try to
|
01:34:57
|
|
|
give instruction to staff. I see. And staff will pull five different ways. If they get 5 different sets of instruction. I can see
|
01:35:03
|
|
|
that. So it is helpful to have rules on that point that say, you know, if you're going to task staff to do something, it has to be
|
01:35:10
|
|
|
consistent with the city plans and with city ordinances. And then the direction comes through a chain of command just like in any
|
01:35:16
|
|
|
other organization.
|
01:35:22
|
|
|
Amber, did you remember your comment?
|
01:35:30
|
|
|
This is a response, I believe to the last meeting where we were seeking ways to hold the meetings and looking for opportunities to
|
01:35:33
|
|
|
work that way. And so I, I think this is a good opportunity for you to work with Jamie and get this to the point where you want so
|
01:35:38
|
|
|
you feel comfortable.
|
01:35:44
|
|
|
Yeah, on page 6 E it talks about how city stat or I don't know if it's department heads or city staff can like report us for
|
01:35:50
|
|
|
talking to them or going after. And I'm like an an annual report will be summarized for the nature and scope of significant
|
01:35:57
|
|
|
information requests and then.
|
01:36:04
|
|
|
Like it?
|
01:36:11
|
|
|
We're over them.
|
01:36:14
|
|
|
So it's like.
|
01:36:16
|
|
|
Which one are you looking at? I'm sorry, an annual review of significant information requests. So it's like the City Manager will
|
01:36:18
|
|
|
compile an annual report summarizing the nature and scope of significant information requests received by State Council, the
|
01:36:24
|
|
|
resources required to fulfill the request, and any issues encountered.
|
01:36:30
|
|
|
This report will be presented the City Council for review and consider and consideration for the adjustment and these limitations.
|
01:36:37
|
|
|
So let's so now we're codifying that if a minority City Council is asking for a lot, then the majority can come in and say you
|
01:36:43
|
|
|
know what, you're asking for too much. We're not going to let it. And it's like that. That shouldn't be in code. Well, the intent
|
01:36:50
|
|
|
there would be for their for council to receive a report annually that would say.
|
01:36:56
|
|
|
These were the demands put on staff time for information. I don't think the intent behind that is to try to point fingers is just
|
01:37:04
|
|
|
try to help help the council understand, are we?
|
01:37:09
|
|
|
I think maybe we're just working off the precedent of the city is that we've always generally respected the the people over
|
01:37:46
|
|
|
whoever the staff are. So for us, we've always said, hey, city manager, we would like this. And the city manager looks for who out
|
01:37:54
|
|
|
of the staff have the time to fulfill that purpose. And if they don't have that time, that way we're not having people work
|
01:38:02
|
|
|
overtime or come in early or do things like that and they're able to facilitate.
|
01:38:10
|
|
|
Proper production that's efficient to maximizing what you are asking for, what the total council is asking for. And if that time
|
01:38:19
|
|
|
starts taking too much away from the priorities that the full council set and think that's where the parameters are coming in
|
01:38:25
|
|
|
here, but I think it would be fair to maybe.
|
01:38:31
|
|
|
You could all meet in small working groups and go through this. Are there any other high level points? I think that I think we can
|
01:38:37
|
|
|
find agreement of what I would say is because this is so much of an adjustment that citizens should at least get two weeks to see
|
01:38:44
|
|
|
the final version and then a public comment. Because like sometimes there's consequences and unintended consequences and you can't
|
01:38:50
|
|
|
look at it in terms of like the current makeup of the council right now or the current problem. You have to look at it like in the
|
01:38:57
|
|
|
future.
|
01:39:03
|
|
|
Outside of the issues of the day, right So.
|
01:39:10
|
|
|
I don't think there's any rush on this. I think it's a fair request and I'd be happy to meet with you, Jake. I, I really do try to
|
01:39:14
|
|
|
make sure that we're representing everyone on the council and I do think that same thing when I'm making, when I'm working on
|
01:39:20
|
|
|
policy. How will this affect the council 10 years from now?
|
01:39:26
|
|
|
We don't know who's going to be mayor, who's going to be making the decisions as a council, and so I agree with you 100%.
|
01:39:34
|
|
|
Is this a public document?
|
01:39:43
|
|
|
Yeah, Mayor, thank you for the time. It was helpful to get feedback from everybody and.
|
01:39:45
|
|
|
I'll take a stab at making some changes and I'll make some phone calls to members of the council to try to get their suggestions.
|
01:39:49
|
|
|
And then to the individual members of the council, feel free to send me red line edits or an e-mail or whatever is easiest for you
|
01:39:57
|
|
|
to get information back. And then I'll try to create a new draft and we can. And I also, I also want to reiterate that I, I'm so
|
01:40:05
|
|
|
grateful for the staff, the documents that I do gather they're not attacking. I mean some, I hope they can understand my tone.
|
01:40:12
|
|
|
Thank you, Amber.
|
01:41:35
|
|
|
All right, if we are done with this and there are no further comments on this, I'm going to go ahead and take us to the next
|
01:41:37
|
|
|
agenda item which moves us right into public comment, I believe. Let me confirm.
|
01:41:43
|
|
|
Minutes on the screen.
|
01:42:23
|
|
|
And then if you have an item that all of you would like to share.
|
01:42:26
|
|
|
Citizens acting in inappropriate manners will be, you know, invited to leave, same as always. And we're so excited to hear from
|
01:43:06
|
|
|
you and really learn about what you care about in our community. So with that, we invite you to come up and share.
|
01:43:12
|
|
|
Come on.
|
01:43:21
|
|
|
Yeah, go ahead and stand in line if you want. You can. Forward to you if you want to. I'm Darlene Price. I appreciate you having
|
01:43:22
|
|
|
people lean forward and talking to their mic because.
|
01:43:27
|
|
|
I had a real hard time listening and hearing what they were doing on the discussion here. So that was great Council. I appreciate
|
01:43:32
|
|
|
that my personal my my point and my questions that you can answer later is who is the we that form this document on agenda public
|
01:43:41
|
|
|
comments, request from staff? Was that the entire council that got together and said let's put this together or was it just you?
|
01:43:50
|
|
|
I mean that that's my question is who's the we that did that? Then I said I'm looking for looking at each of the things that you
|
01:43:59
|
|
|
talked about. The big red mark that came out in my mind was that the mayor established the agenda.
|
01:44:07
|
|
|
The mayor allocates the time for personal comments.
|
01:44:16
|
|
|
The mayor requests what can be requested of staff, the mayor or the manager directs the staff. And to me that and finally the
|
01:44:20
|
|
|
mayor decides who gets what records. And so for me, that's a big, a big exclamation point that that's a lot of power in one
|
01:44:28
|
|
|
person's hands to dictate what your constituents want to have done in our home and around in our area. So that those are my
|
01:44:36
|
|
|
questions.
|
01:44:44
|
|
|
The big red flash about what the mayor does on every single one of these things. Nobody else gets a second opinion.
|
01:44:52
|
|
|
And the fact that the we who was that I would like to know. Thank you.
|
01:44:59
|
|
|
Hi, I'm Keith Hold the way I live on Holdaway road.
|
01:45:07
|
|
|
I think it's been three months ago that I asked for a response and the mayor told me that she would e-mail me the amount of tax
|
01:45:10
|
|
|
returned to, to the golf place and, and I and also Larry Miller Theater and she has not done that yet. I'm, I'm waiting for that
|
01:45:18
|
|
|
e-mail from the mayor because it was promised to me. And, and I just want to know that I think I have a right as a citizen to ask
|
01:45:26
|
|
|
that.
|
01:45:34
|
|
|
And I was promised that.
|
01:45:41
|
|
|
I I also remember when I was voted in and and sworn in, I actually had all of the financial.
|
01:45:44
|
|
|
Records as soon as I received the vote of the citizens, I didn't have to wait till the swearing in and I didn't have to wait three
|
01:45:55
|
|
|
or four months later to get every single detail that I wanted as a City Councilman.
|
01:46:02
|
|
|
There should be nobody that waits that long to receive any type of. We voted for certain people and we voted for them to have
|
01:46:11
|
|
|
total access, not partial.
|
01:46:16
|
|
|
That's exactly. Remember to raise your hand, please, no commentary. And that should happen and you ought to make sure as a council
|
01:46:22
|
|
|
that that happens today or tomorrow.
|
01:46:27
|
|
|
Every single item that they want to review, they should be able to review past expenses. They should have the total books.
|
01:46:33
|
|
|
Everyone should. The whole staff should be open to that. They should want that for the public good.
|
01:46:41
|
|
|
And and for it not to be like that is a kangaroo court.
|
01:46:50
|
|
|
I'm done.
|
01:46:55
|
|
|
Chip price Providence I.
|
01:46:59
|
|
|
I wanted to take a little bit of time to just kind of remind you guys that as elected officials, you guys work for us. And in
|
01:47:03
|
|
|
order for that to take place, we need to be able to stand in this room and have and have us express how we feel.
|
01:47:12
|
|
|
Your job is to listen to what we're asking you to do, and if public comments are squelched then.
|
01:47:21
|
|
|
You're not. You're not a representative anymore.
|
01:47:31
|
|
|
You're you're working for yourselves and that's, that's not what our government was designed to do.
|
01:47:35
|
|
|
I have, I have a question. A couple months ago we received an e-mail with a survey that said, hey, prioritize what you guys want,
|
01:47:44
|
|
|
your vision of things, how we're doing.
|
01:47:50
|
|
|
Are those results going to be made public? Are we going to be able to see what the City of Vineyards public view is? And.
|
01:47:59
|
|
|
When? When will those results be just disclosed?
|
01:48:10
|
|
|
That's a question.
|
01:48:16
|
|
|
I will, yeah. We'll answer. I'll answer after.
|
01:48:18
|
|
|
That's it.
|
01:48:22
|
|
|
Thanks Tip.
|
01:48:23
|
|
|
Daria Evans Figured resident. Thank you for this opportunity. I just have.
|
01:48:26
|
|
|
I was really glad to hear that MAG has awarded the city tag grant. I'd like to know how much that grant was for. It wasn't listed
|
01:48:33
|
|
|
in the Vineyard City Facebook page how much that grant is worth and it also it gave the areas that it's going to be distributed.
|
01:48:40
|
|
|
I'd like to know where Geneva Rd. loop is.
|
01:48:47
|
|
|
I have no idea where Geneva Rd. loop is and that's listed on the bottom of the little.
|
01:48:56
|
|
|
Picture it says it will be at Mill Rd. Vineyard Connector and Geneva Rd. loop. So I'd like to know where Geneva Rd. loop is on
|
01:49:03
|
|
|
that. And then also a neighbor asked me about the sun shades back in August of 2023. I asked that question when they will be
|
01:49:11
|
|
|
installed and my neighbor just asked me this past week when are those sun shades going to be installed. So I'd like to get her an
|
01:49:18
|
|
|
answer on that.
|
01:49:26
|
|
|
And then also on the March 4th Vineyard Community, Vineyard City page, it was talking about the Vineyard Community Garden, and I
|
01:49:35
|
|
|
think the picture on there is misleading it. I was looking at it. Oh, that looks really great. It's a picture of the Orem
|
01:49:43
|
|
|
Community Garden, and I think that needs to be credited to the Oren Community Garden.
|
01:49:52
|
|
|
Because that's that is misleading. And so I would appreciate that being corrected. I also spoke with Mr. Ellis in February about
|
01:50:01
|
|
|
the Top Golf tax incentive and he told me that he would talk to Laura Lewis. She's the accountant back in 2018 was doing all this
|
01:50:08
|
|
|
work with the Top Golf.
|
01:50:15
|
|
|
And it would, he said. It might be scheduled for February 28th or March.
|
01:50:23
|
|
|
And he said that 200 pages of document would be provided for for people to look through when that happens, that she would explain
|
01:50:28
|
|
|
it and.
|
01:50:33
|
|
|
February 28th meeting was cancelled and so I'm wondering when that meeting will be scheduled for the public.
|
01:50:39
|
|
|
And then I also asked him about the railroad spur, and he said negotiations still in progress, the Union Pacific is asking for
|
01:50:46
|
|
|
more siding. And so I'd like to know how those negotiations are going.
|
01:50:53
|
|
|
I also missed the special sessions on February and 17th and 19th because we are out of town Tennessee visiting family, and I was
|
01:51:01
|
|
|
hoping that the minutes of those two sessions would be approved tonight as consent items, but they are not listed. And so I'd like
|
01:51:09
|
|
|
to know when they would be available to read. And then also I'd like to be able to read Mayor Fulmer's state of the city that you
|
01:51:17
|
|
|
presented at your February 21st retreat meeting. I would like to go to let me think about the state of the city. Thank you.
|
01:51:25
|
|
|
Kim Cornelius resident.
|
01:51:41
|
|
|
I'd like to say I heard this through the Grapevine, but it's pretty credible. Grapevine happens to be a retired city chief, Fire
|
01:51:45
|
|
|
Chief Jim McGill, and from what I understand there have been.
|
01:51:51
|
|
|
Some pretty different plans put in place for a fire station and it seems very creative. It sounds like it's pretty good, but I'm
|
01:51:59
|
|
|
wondering if you could give the public who knows nothing about this current plan, proposed plan a status update.
|
01:52:07
|
|
|
Because I'm not sure that the water getting to the end of the roof so that we're kept abreast of what's going on. I'm not even
|
01:52:15
|
|
|
sure that all the council members know what was going on. Thank you.
|
01:52:19
|
|
|
Claudia Larae, Holdaway Rd. Thank you for all your work. I know it's kind of a thankless job. I would just like to make a comment
|
01:52:27
|
|
|
about meetings in December.
|
01:52:33
|
|
|
It was very disappointing to be one of 27 people sitting up in that hall that were not accommodated for being able to hear the
|
01:52:40
|
|
|
meeting if people take their time to come, I think maybe while we're making all these.
|
01:52:49
|
|
|
Rules that make. Maybe we should address what to do with an overflow. I noticed there was a.
|
01:52:59
|
|
|
Screen out there.
|
01:53:09
|
|
|
That maybe could have. I don't know if it was set up or not, but I'm asking you please to.
|
01:53:10
|
|
|
Make a plan for that so those of us, you know, if we can't fit in these seats. I mean, people came to hear and to comment. And I
|
01:53:18
|
|
|
certainly understand not wanting to hear the same comment over and over, but just to be able to accommodate the citizens who come
|
01:53:27
|
|
|
in some way. I don't know what the answer is.
|
01:53:35
|
|
|
But I know that there is an answer.
|
01:53:44
|
|
|
Thank you.
|
01:53:49
|
|
|
Karen Cornelius, resident.
|
01:53:56
|
|
|
I consider myself to be a constitutional conservative.
|
01:53:58
|
|
|
And one of the things that I hold dearest.
|
01:54:03
|
|
|
Is the 1st Amendment.
|
01:54:07
|
|
|
And that First Amendment gives me the right to stand here before you and share my concerns about the legislative body, about the
|
01:54:09
|
|
|
things that are happening in this city and about things that I see that we might be able to improve. And one of those is
|
01:54:16
|
|
|
definitely communication. But, and I remember that same meeting that Claudia just spoke of, and I want to read you something that
|
01:54:23
|
|
|
was said in that meeting or to a reporter after the meeting.
|
01:54:30
|
|
|
It's amazing to see people so impassioned to care so much and even on the smallest items, things that I never would have thought
|
01:54:39
|
|
|
would ever come to the discussion, she said. This is meaningful and sometimes it's difficult to explain the law or to understand
|
01:54:47
|
|
|
what is exactly coming before you, but just to see that you people care is incredible.
|
01:54:55
|
|
|
That was a quote from our mayor. We care and we understand. We do our homework. We may not know the law like you do.
|
01:55:04
|
|
|
But we do our homework and we come to these meetings with a level of preparation that is good for us and we deserve respect.
|
01:55:13
|
|
|
I don't trust that we're getting it. I don't feel like we're getting it when you say that. Even the smallest items, well, one of
|
01:55:24
|
|
|
those small items just happened to be the four to one power grab. We sitting out there did not consider that to be small. We
|
01:55:31
|
|
|
considered that to be major. Two others were two Pids that we knew nothing about. I know my time is running out. If you want to
|
01:55:38
|
|
|
handcuff me, that's OK. But I want to finish what I have to say.
|
01:55:45
|
|
|
I I like to keep all the way want to know about the taxes and I want that in a public meeting because.
|
01:55:54
|
|
|
That I had to try and keep forgetting it.
|
01:56:04
|
|
|
I want to know in a public meeting the answer to Keith Hoodways question because that question was asked in public and if we all
|
01:56:11
|
|
|
want to know the answer why do we have to go 1 by 1 to get the answer from someone else that needs to be on public records.
|
01:56:19
|
|
|
Another thing that I'm concerned about is the bridge that has been approved for Utah City. When I see the eyesore at the front
|
01:56:28
|
|
|
runner station with no parking facility. Nobody talks about when that's planned for and I know that there's hopes to be jumped
|
01:56:36
|
|
|
through to get it, but there were also hoops that were jumped through to get that bridge.
|
01:56:44
|
|
|
In Utah City. So I know that there are things that can be done and I know that Julie and Jeff Hartley have some some people they
|
01:56:53
|
|
|
know and some pressure that they can place. And we are really kind of the laughingstock of Utah County the way our frontrunner
|
01:57:00
|
|
|
station has become the over the overflow trap, the overflow. Our new time is up. So we're going to have to wrap up. I understand
|
01:57:06
|
|
|
it is.
|
01:57:12
|
|
|
It's not fair for me to give you additional time when I have to take time with other people. So we can talk about this next time,
|
01:57:22
|
|
|
but let's finish the job at the front runner. Let's not be starting all of these other projects when we've got that eyesore every
|
01:57:27
|
|
|
time we come over the bridge at 800. Thanks.
|
01:57:33
|
|
|
I'm Adam Tushar. I'm a resident in the Windsor neighborhood. So just a few questions I guess about kind of to clarify a couple
|
01:57:45
|
|
|
things.
|
01:57:49
|
|
|
This packet says that this public comment is for items not on the agenda. But the mayor did say something about like you could
|
01:57:54
|
|
|
address items on the agenda. So I don't know if that's a new policy or just wanted to be. No, I think I meant not on the agenda. I
|
01:58:00
|
|
|
might have misspoke. I was reading.
|
01:58:05
|
|
|
The OK, so we'll do away with that.
|
01:58:12
|
|
|
I did wanna make it. Was it an agenda item that was already addressed? Go ahead. OK, All right. So I just wanted to I read through
|
01:58:17
|
|
|
kind of the stuff that about the meetings and I think there was two very specific areas that maybe the counselor, the attorney
|
01:58:24
|
|
|
might consider just some additional clarity. One was I think it was maybe already brought up, but like what is the definition of a
|
01:58:30
|
|
|
prestige really inappropriate agenda item and who makes that determination and just.
|
01:58:36
|
|
|
You know, is that, you know, legally that's obvious, but like what is procedurally mean? And then the other one was what is the
|
01:58:43
|
|
|
definition of there's a part that says strong support from the community. So how is that determined? And that's in regards to how
|
01:58:49
|
|
|
the city manager prioritizes request for information or you know, other things like that. I think that would just be helpful with
|
01:58:55
|
|
|
the public to understand too. Aside from that, I did want to mention I did go to one of the special meetings. I thought it was
|
01:59:02
|
|
|
really great.
|
01:59:08
|
|
|
That's it. Thank you. Thank you.
|
01:59:45
|
|
|
All right.
|
01:59:48
|
|
|
Doesn't look like we have any other comments, Elizabeth.
|
01:59:50
|
|
|
I would like to just add really fast I.
|
01:59:55
|
|
|
President.
|
02:00:00
|
|
|
The same meeting that Keith asked for, the e-mail for the second time I asked for. If we do have to, I don't wanna talk right? But
|
02:00:02
|
|
|
if I do raise my hand, I would love to have some kind of tally system when it goes into the notes to be like when this person said
|
02:00:07
|
|
|
that comment we had.
|
02:00:12
|
|
|
15 people raised their hand or whatever, right? So that, that if I'm not going to repeat something that at least my voice was
|
02:00:18
|
|
|
heard by my raise of hand. Because I'm telling you right now, she doesn't look up. You look up sometimes you look up every time
|
02:00:24
|
|
|
you look up every time you look up every time. So if we're going to raise our hand in support of a comment or something, that
|
02:00:30
|
|
|
means I'm sorry, something that that's been said.
|
02:00:36
|
|
|
Our freedom of speech is is I agree with what was that our freedom of speech is such a.
|
02:00:43
|
|
|
I mean, it's where our country is built on one of the main things being able to say what we wanted. And I think to limit comments
|
02:00:50
|
|
|
to do anything with public comment is, is such a spot on the face. And I would just also like to say that if we're going to talk
|
02:00:57
|
|
|
about respecting of time and meetings and the flow of meetings, have the top agenda items be your 123 bullet points of the agenda.
|
02:01:04
|
|
|
And if something else happens after and it's been 2 hours, then say, guess what, we're going to move these to the next meeting.
|
02:01:10
|
|
|
So maybe just.
|
02:01:50
|
|
|
Put an important sense that if it doesn't fit in that meeting, it gets bumped to the next meeting.
|
02:01:52
|
|
|
All right.
|
02:02:01
|
|
|
No, I raised my hand to agree with it because you told me to do that. All right, I will be able to address some of these. Darlene
|
02:02:04
|
|
|
Price, you mentioned who's the we. I think Jamie did a sufficient job answering that question early when he presented Jamie, I
|
02:02:10
|
|
|
don't know if you want to reiterate that you that process.
|
02:02:17
|
|
|
Attorneys have privilege. Is everybody OK if I answer that question so.
|
02:02:25
|
|
|
Sometimes things come about organically, so this was not an agenda item where there was one particular council member who said
|
02:02:31
|
|
|
Jamie do this.
|
02:02:36
|
|
|
I have filled a lot of requests over the last three months of we've had this new thing come up. How do we deal with it? And then
|
02:02:41
|
|
|
when I went and looked at it, I realized that we had no rules.
|
02:02:47
|
|
|
Lawyers like rules because it.
|
02:02:53
|
|
|
Set some structure to how we do things. And so I asked the mayor if I could put together some rules for the council to consider. I
|
02:02:56
|
|
|
met with the mayor to discuss them, I met with Marty to discuss them and I met with council member Holdaway to discuss them. That
|
02:03:02
|
|
|
doesn't mean that they were drafted by any of those council members, but I received input from all three. And again with the
|
02:03:08
|
|
|
structure of the meetings, this was in a work session today. And so it's kind of a first read of the item or reaction to the item
|
02:03:15
|
|
|
and then we can.
|
02:03:21
|
|
|
Work on refining it, make it what the council wants, and then at the end of the day when the council does adopt it and vote, it
|
02:03:28
|
|
|
will be their document and it'll be the city's document.
|
02:03:33
|
|
|
Could you clarify, and I'm sorry if you were going to ask us next, but could you clarify the mayor's role because she had
|
02:03:38
|
|
|
questions about how the mayor establishes the agenda and the public comments and direct staff and so on. Could you kind of talk
|
02:03:44
|
|
|
about her executive role and what is state code versus our code? Sure.
|
02:03:50
|
|
|
The Under state law, the mayor is the chair of the council and so there are some functions that follow the mayor by law, not by.
|
02:03:58
|
|
|
Now, we can't change that part of the rule. And so the rules reflect that under state law. But the mayor is the chair of the
|
02:04:08
|
|
|
council. There's a provision in state law that allows certain roles or functions of a mayor to be defined or limited by a city.
|
02:04:15
|
|
|
But one of the roles that cannot under any circumstance be limited is the mayor's role as chair of the council. And that does
|
02:04:23
|
|
|
involve agenda setting and things related to that. And so you do see the mayor.
|
02:04:30
|
|
|
The Office of the Mayor.
|
02:04:39
|
|
|
Identified in the rules throughout and that's really a function of what's in state law. There are some places when you read the
|
02:04:41
|
|
|
document where it says mayor slash city manager slash council. My effort in stating things in that way is to make clear that.
|
02:04:50
|
|
|
If any one of those three say to staff move forward with the request, then it would happen. It's it's an effort, I guess, to be
|
02:05:00
|
|
|
expansive, not restrictive.
|
02:05:05
|
|
|
Thank you. All right. Please hold the way you mentioned that I said I would personally e-mail you and I just want to clarify that
|
02:05:13
|
|
|
my discussion was that Eric Ellis and our RDA Director would be the people in contact with you. What I understand about the
|
02:05:18
|
|
|
situation. And I also stated that if anybody else wanted that information to go and meet with the staff members as well. And what
|
02:05:23
|
|
|
I understand about the situation that you guys are currently working together and trying to solve that problem for that
|
02:05:28
|
|
|
information.
|
02:05:33
|
|
|
Well, I apologize if I misstated it, but I wouldn't have the information. So it would be the two people that did that. So thank
|
02:05:40
|
|
|
you. Can you can you talk to the point? Because this just keeps coming up.
|
02:05:46
|
|
|
Is there certain parts of this private information? I think so. And Eric, if you want to go ahead and clarify it, go ahead.
|
02:05:53
|
|
|
It's this, yeah, this is working. So I have been speaking with Council member Holdaway about this specific topic. He just, he
|
02:06:02
|
|
|
requested that he own this topic directly and in order to pull this documentation, it requires a grammar request. And so I sent
|
02:06:10
|
|
|
the grammar request file to Council member Holdaway and have not received a response on that yet. Why does it require a grammar
|
02:06:17
|
|
|
request like it's tax?
|
02:06:24
|
|
|
To a single entity and so there it's.
|
02:06:33
|
|
|
It's considered private information.
|
02:06:35
|
|
|
So like if they did a grammar request, would things be redacted? Like the information they want would just be redacted? It would,
|
02:06:38
|
|
|
it would more specifically, I don't know what would be redacted, but it would go through a recorder and she would vet that for
|
02:06:44
|
|
|
private versus public information. And, and as a council member, the response could be different than it would be for what was
|
02:06:50
|
|
|
available to the public potentially. Jamie, can you chime in on legal tax reimbursement that a government entity is giving back
|
02:06:57
|
|
|
for taxes?
|
02:07:03
|
|
|
The private number, but we can't share. I've seen in other cities where Saratoga Springs has their Costco annually they post how
|
02:07:10
|
|
|
much money is going back to Costco and they just do A1 pager of these are all the tax deals that we've given. And I know we have
|
02:07:18
|
|
|
quite a few more. And I owned it and said, First off, I don't want to do a grandma. It's like 10 and and I didn't I don't like
|
02:07:26
|
|
|
that approach because it's like I wanted to move this towards transparency in terms of.
|
02:07:35
|
|
|
Could we set forth a policy of A1 pager and every year we update it once that new information comes out and it's just released to
|
02:07:43
|
|
|
the public in January of we paid out this much this year because you know, those Rdas are set up on the economy, right? We're
|
02:07:51
|
|
|
we're making a guest 20 years ago on how much taxes the megaplex is going to go for on a percentage basis over that 20 or 30 year
|
02:07:59
|
|
|
period, right? And it's calculated every year depending on how many people go and do it. And so as a policy.
|
02:08:07
|
|
|
That's what my father's asking for is can we calculate year to date and every year so that because there are certain businesses
|
02:08:15
|
|
|
that don't get any money and it's hard when we do give these better deals through the RDA, it just needs to be public what it is.
|
02:08:22
|
|
|
So if I could just make one more comment, the I'm gonna let you make a comment, but it's gonna go to Jamie. Then I'm gonna go to
|
02:08:30
|
|
|
the next. OK, this will be quick adding the grandma request.
|
02:08:37
|
|
|
And so again, our goal in providing their grammar request is so that we have crystal clear instructions on what we need to look
|
02:09:19
|
|
|
for so that we can be responsive to that request.
|
02:09:24
|
|
|
Thank God. Jimmy, are you council member? Hold the way. Maybe what might help is if we jump on a quick phone call with you and
|
02:09:31
|
|
|
your dad and I can help.
|
02:09:37
|
|
|
I can help Orient you to kind of what information is available and it's out there and then maybe you can pinpoint what exactly you
|
02:09:44
|
|
|
want. I think this could be an agenda item of the policy of staff does this. Yeah. The next thing I wanted to mention is I know
|
02:09:51
|
|
|
the mayor is scheduled in RDA meeting following the council meeting in two weeks.
|
02:09:57
|
|
|
And has arranged for the RDA director to be present to walk through all of the RDA obligations over time so that the public can
|
02:10:04
|
|
|
hear everything and and ask all the follow up questions. But we can get you, you know, basic information of agreements,
|
02:10:12
|
|
|
reimbursement commitments, dollar amounts on those kinds of things certainly are public.
|
02:10:20
|
|
|
Tax receipts for individual businesses.
|
02:10:30
|
|
|
Are not and I think where there might have been some miscommunication between your request and what Eric's looking for is he
|
02:10:34
|
|
|
understood the request to be individual tax receipts and.
|
02:10:39
|
|
|
Put their suggestions and sorry, I don't know the tag grant number offhand, but if you stop by our planning and talk to Morgan,
|
02:11:15
|
|
|
he'll be able to put that and maybe we can add that to the picture or the listing that we put on social media. Thanks for the
|
02:11:22
|
|
|
comment on the Orem Community Garden. We'll send that feedback back to the social media team. Eric, will you make note of that and
|
02:11:30
|
|
|
make sure that we do that the ARM community Gardens page picture. OK, let's see.
|
02:11:37
|
|
|
Additionally, you can find out about the loop sunshade, the Geneva. No, no, the sun shades. I the last time we talked about this,
|
02:11:45
|
|
|
I believe it was spring, but it would be good to talk to Morgan the same or Brian and you could even touch base with Eric and they
|
02:11:51
|
|
|
could update you on that timeline. We didn't want to put them up in the winter because it's just wear and tear on them. So we were
|
02:11:56
|
|
|
waiting for good weather.
|
02:12:02
|
|
|
Right. And have we received them yet? Sorry, I said I'd be quick. No, no, I, I, I think the best opportunity would be to talk to
|
02:12:09
|
|
|
staff and get the full timeline.
|
02:12:13
|
|
|
So that if they know the information best Geneva Loop, Rd. Morgan, I'd like to know what that is too. So the tag grant just to
|
02:12:17
|
|
|
kind of explain really quickly is the technical assistance. The tag grant is the technical assistance grant through MAG. And so we
|
02:12:25
|
|
|
received $120,000 and what? And that's that's for planning funds to help us plan those corridors to make them safer for
|
02:12:33
|
|
|
pedestrians, for bikes to to add crossings we did.
|
02:12:40
|
|
|
We did town halls over there and that was one of the number #1 concerns from residents was that they feel unsafe crossing and you
|
02:12:49
|
|
|
know, but they feel safe in the community. So yeah, I think the. Is it a loop to Geneva? Yeah. So, so So what it looks at is Mill
|
02:12:56
|
|
|
Road 400 NA connection to Frontrunner and then the loop of Geneva on our side of Geneva Rd. Geneva is the state road and it falls
|
02:13:04
|
|
|
mainly within Orem. But the planning grant would look at our trail because there is a.
|
02:13:11
|
|
|
Plan trail on our side of Diva and then coming up the Vineyard connector and making a connection up to the front runner. So it's
|
02:13:19
|
|
|
looking at kind of those corridors for trails and for overall.
|
02:13:24
|
|
|
Bicycle and pedestrian safety. Okay, all right, let's see.
|
02:13:31
|
|
|
And for accommodations for what happens if we have overflow, I think we can work on that. There's a few things that we'll probably
|
02:14:09
|
|
|
have to work through. When you make a public notice, you're not necessarily sure how many people might show up. And so sometimes
|
02:14:15
|
|
|
when there's a public notice, you have to hold it at the area. But what we can do in the future.
|
02:14:21
|
|
|
Maybe is triggered better and then bring that back for a brainstorming session. So that's good.
|
02:14:28
|
|
|
Did not want to do the conversation and negotiations have gone really well. The state has been a great partner. Union Pacific
|
02:15:08
|
|
|
Railroad is coming to a good agreement with us. UTA, as they mentioned are also becoming a good partner in it. And I think we're
|
02:15:15
|
|
|
working on something that's really going to be a great benefit to the city and it's not something that's going to.
|
02:15:21
|
|
|
I think you'll be happy with the outcome. As we get to the other side of that, let's see, special session minutes were discussed
|
02:15:29
|
|
|
by one of our residents. But just to clarify it, because there were only two people, it's not actually a City Council meeting. It
|
02:15:37
|
|
|
falls to a different standard. And so the Open Public Meetings Act is not required for meeting minutes to be taken, but if you
|
02:15:45
|
|
|
request for the video or the audio that was taken, you can listen to it. So if you have questions about that, you can.
|
02:15:53
|
|
|
Reach out to our recorder. Thank you for the comments on the procedural and the public definitions for the ordinances that we're
|
02:16:01
|
|
|
looking at it. We'll also mention the updates for the trail network and I believe that's it. So thank you again for all of the
|
02:16:07
|
|
|
public comments and.
|
02:16:14
|
|
|
I'll go ahead and let you talk about, I mean, is there something specific that you want to address? I just want to respond to the
|
02:16:23
|
|
|
public comment section, so.
|
02:16:27
|
|
|
I don't want to go through all of it unless you have something additional to add that's information.
|
02:16:32
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm just responding to the public comments. So they asking me these questions, right?
|
02:16:37
|
|
|
So I know, so the way that I want to do this is I love the idea that you wanna comment. So if you have something more to add to
|
02:16:44
|
|
|
these specific ideas or information, that's a very specific thing and they're different from your comments.
|
02:16:52
|
|
|
It'll be the same thing now as then. I can wait 10 minutes. OK, let's go ahead and move into it. You can be first.
|
02:17:35
|
|
|
Just for procedure, I just want to follow the same procedure. OK, so for the question period, I just want the citizens to know how
|
02:17:42
|
|
|
hard it is for me to get information from Eric in the I'll say, hey, I would like this and a public comment. I would like this
|
02:17:50
|
|
|
before on the agenda. I would like a policy of putting this through. And it's like, hey, fill out this grammar request and it
|
02:17:57
|
|
|
becomes a lot of homework. And it it it is, it's like slow the roll, right? It takes some time.
|
02:18:05
|
|
|
On tip on your survey results, I read every single one of them. There are over 650 responses and it was very loud.
|
02:18:13
|
|
|
It was shocking, the anger and and I, I think the citizens deserve to see just like Facebook comments, how angry everyone is if
|
02:18:22
|
|
|
they just go to one source or four or five of us, we can just say, hey, everything is fine in the city. And I just don't think
|
02:18:27
|
|
|
anything, it needs to be transparent, right?
|
02:18:32
|
|
|
Sorry, I don't. I don't know about veneer, Lupro or whatever. The picture of the gardens on the garden thing.
|
02:18:39
|
|
|
I think I did see that we're putting out a garden director. So this kind of more of my report. I really believe that the garden
|
02:18:46
|
|
|
group themselves should be picking their own leader instead of having them apply to us. I think it creates a sense of community.
|
02:18:53
|
|
|
Same thing with the library, the Heritage Commission. I don't think it should be appointed. It's just kind of the topic there.
|
02:19:00
|
|
|
They voted on their roles and volunteered on their roles. I think he means the actual appointments that fall under.
|
02:19:10
|
|
|
Yeah, I don't think the appointment, yeah, I think the appointments should just be made by their group, like allowing them to vote
|
02:19:18
|
|
|
for themselves. I think it it, it allows them some autonomy, I think. And going back to the special meeting minutes.
|
02:19:25
|
|
|
I want to work with you guys in good faith and you know, I, I apologized already for the Saturday and Monday and I saw those on
|
02:19:33
|
|
|
the rules of saying, hey, we can't ever do that on Saturday and Monday. And I can agree with that.
|
02:19:40
|
|
|
However, I think that you know with the.
|
02:19:48
|
|
|
I don't know 30 or 30 or so that attended or 2025 that attended. We spent many hours going through a lot of issues and problems
|
02:19:53
|
|
|
and we've got to be able. I know that in good.
|
02:19:59
|
|
|
If if the group doesn't vote to put them on, then we're not going to allow people to know of the pain and different problems. I
|
02:20:08
|
|
|
just think that we're in good faith to just say that it can be listed cuz it's.
|
02:20:14
|
|
|
But I understand by law it can be denied. The next thing is on the fire department. Sarah and I have never met with the fire
|
02:20:20
|
|
|
department yet and we've requested to meet with City Council or on that. And so just if we could meet and know all these different
|
02:20:28
|
|
|
plans and changes. Same thing with the rail spur and same thing with Huntsman, like we request to meet with different things.
|
02:20:35
|
|
|
Claudia, I, I I want to make you feel that we are listening.
|
02:20:45
|
|
|
I think that opening up Facebook comments and wouldn't make it so you didn't have to come here. But I also think it adds the
|
02:20:50
|
|
|
transparency is what other people are saying. And then Karen, just knowing about the taxes and different things on that. And then
|
02:20:56
|
|
|
on your bridge comment, I just wanted to place this on the record. Like I'm grateful that we bring amenities to the state, but I
|
02:21:03
|
|
|
did not know about the 12th North Bridge. I tried to speak with Mr. Hartley. He only gave me the ability to go up to the
|
02:21:10
|
|
|
legislature and learn about that.
|
02:21:16
|
|
|
And you guys know that I've asked them to come down here and ask some serious questions about everything his relationship, and it
|
02:21:23
|
|
|
still hasn't happened. And I wanted to, I want to do that within closed doors.
|
02:21:28
|
|
|
And hey, let's go meet and now I'm like to the point where I think there needs to be a clearing of air grievances and, and just
|
02:21:35
|
|
|
kind of hear things out. And that's why I think special sessions are needed if if we don't want to allow for, you know, Ben Abbott
|
02:21:42
|
|
|
or others that had some issues where we could talk about it openly.
|
02:21:48
|
|
|
I just want to make sure that people understand I'm I'm trying it gets tough and I heard I read it in your in your survey
|
02:21:55
|
|
|
responses and they made me sad.
|
02:22:00
|
|
|
On my report stuff this week, we held two meetings and I'm really grateful for Utah City that came and met with me and Sarah and
|
02:22:07
|
|
|
we held those meetings and we did that in a style in which that it wouldn't have a quorum and so we could speak openly.
|
02:22:16
|
|
|
And I don't like that culture in our city. I think you guys should be able to see me work with Utah City and talk and it should be
|
02:22:26
|
|
|
recorded. And me and Sarah are being separated to where we don't really need to be. We're spending double the staff hour time to
|
02:22:33
|
|
|
hold one meeting at 9:00 and then an hour and a half later do another meeting. And we're doing it twice. And the and the excuse
|
02:22:40
|
|
|
that we're given is that it would have to be recorded and be public. And I just go, I don't remember the culture of this when.
|
02:22:48
|
|
|
It used to not be that way and so I wanted to push back on on that. And then our second meeting about the.
|
02:22:55
|
|
|
Argument about the finances. So the people saw me and you leave that meeting and even today talk about the differences of what
|
02:23:03
|
|
|
actually happened. And I don't like that because I think the public should be able to see that disagreement in those types of
|
02:23:10
|
|
|
meetings. And when I get summoned to those, I go, there's only two of us here there. This is a great meeting where everyone should
|
02:23:16
|
|
|
watch this open debate and go through and do it. And that's what the public deserve.
|
02:23:23
|
|
|
And you guys get to vote us based off of what's happened. And, and I, I get that certain things like a Utah city, like, oh, I want
|
02:23:31
|
|
|
privacy or whatever. And, and I, I, I'm kind of like in certain issues, guys, I want to have this public.
|
02:23:39
|
|
|
Can I respond to one of them? Sure.
|
02:24:17
|
|
|
I guess we'd have to refer to Damien on the whole public meeting because we are following state code. But the whole reason we had
|
02:24:20
|
|
|
we met with Ave. consultants was to help us be employed and educated because it will be presented to the public. And the
|
02:24:26
|
|
|
presentation that we saw today, the transportation, we all saw that. And then we had our questions and we could even make requests
|
02:24:33
|
|
|
for changes and then they brought it to the public. So I agree with you.
|
02:24:39
|
|
|
In the sense that it's great to have more public involvement, but at the same time, I think what you're asking for, if we had a
|
02:24:46
|
|
|
public meeting on every single thing we did, our staff would be monopolized by that. No, their last meetings because we're holding
|
02:24:52
|
|
|
the meeting twice. Well, but to have it in the public, I just feel like.
|
02:24:58
|
|
|
We literally are doing duplicate meetings to avoid the public and it's like to have a public meeting we have to have like 10
|
02:25:06
|
|
|
people here from staff.
|
02:25:10
|
|
|
To present like this is a working session. We're all working through ideas by allowing the public to see and watch those. I
|
02:25:52
|
|
|
thought the parking decision will be made except in a public meeting, right? Not what I'm saying, but it's like we're doing all of
|
02:25:58
|
|
|
these working sessions quite a bit before to get to it. And it's like, why don't we just do all of these in one time? That limits
|
02:26:04
|
|
|
me and Sarah's ability to talk and your ability to talk because we all can't talk. It's like one is here, one is there, and I'm
|
02:26:10
|
|
|
going.
|
02:26:16
|
|
|
Well, we're doing this to to avoid a public meeting and.
|
02:26:23
|
|
|
I'm just like, why let's not avoid it? Let's just, let's just do it publicly so that we can all come away with, you know what
|
02:26:27
|
|
|
happened? Because it literally is we're just duplicating meetings right now and I just don't wanna avoid.
|
02:26:34
|
|
|
You know, but like, you want to meet with the fire station, which, no, no, no. I'm saying in certain instances. I'm not saying in
|
02:26:43
|
|
|
every instance, like in trainings, yeah, like, hey, you gotta do some things. But I'm just giving the two examples of the parking
|
02:26:48
|
|
|
study that we did and also the Utah City meeting.
|
02:26:53
|
|
|
You're running those trainings or you're wanting to be a part of it. You're also wanting them to be public. Can I, can I speak for
|
02:28:04
|
|
|
a minute? Yeah, I think, I think what Jake's saying is they did the identical meeting back-to-back. So why if if Jake and I both
|
02:28:09
|
|
|
need the exact same training, why can we not be in the training together? I mean, it was the identical meeting, right? One right
|
02:28:15
|
|
|
after the other.
|
02:28:21
|
|
|
Because the public, public meetings have an expense associated with them. You have to have, you're doing a recording, you have you
|
02:28:28
|
|
|
pay for my time, you pay for Pam's time, you pay for staff time. That's all over there. So you have to be hang on. I'm not done.
|
02:28:34
|
|
|
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
|
02:28:39
|
|
|
The meeting that we had this week related to your request for financial information and so.
|
02:28:46
|
|
|
We wanted to meet with the mayor and you wanted to meet with the.
|
02:28:54
|
|
|
City manager on that item, if you meet with the mayor, the city manager and Sarah all at once, you have a quorum of the council
|
02:28:58
|
|
|
and so you would have to have a public meeting.
|
02:29:03
|
|
|
You could do it that way, but it would you just go into a closed session and so there's no reason to.
|
02:29:09
|
|
|
Mobilize all the staff, record things and do that if you're just going to have.
|
02:29:16
|
|
|
Look at documents and say, this column looks private to me. I don't need this. This column looks public to me. I don't need that.
|
02:29:20
|
|
|
And so to economize time, the mayor and Eric arranged for Utah City and their representatives to be there at the end of one
|
02:29:26
|
|
|
meeting at the beginning of the other. But it allowed each of you an opportunity to ask questions of the mayor and to give
|
02:29:32
|
|
|
instructions to the mayor and to the city.
|
02:29:38
|
|
|
Manager about.
|
02:29:44
|
|
|
What financial information? So I'm really baffled by the conversation because I hear.
|
02:29:46
|
|
|
I'm not getting information but then they hold a meeting with you to show you the documentation and say.
|
02:29:53
|
|
|
We think this is private. We think this is public. Which parts of it do you want? And then you can turn and you can say to
|
02:30:00
|
|
|
Christy, this is what we want, this is what we don't want. And then she can go back and run reports. It seems really inefficient
|
02:30:06
|
|
|
to do that kind of a conversation.
|
02:30:12
|
|
|
In an open meeting, and yet here we are.
|
02:30:19
|
|
|
Well, I can understand that, but we didn't talk about anything private in those meetings. It was just more of of what we can and
|
02:30:23
|
|
|
cannot share and our quest to be more transparent. So I think it's a good exercise of like because we never referenced one
|
02:30:31
|
|
|
specific or if we did, we could be careful. Hey, I'm not going to reference the name of this or that, right? This is we could
|
02:30:39
|
|
|
have, we could have hold both of those meetings just in our City Council meeting and debated it openly on how what is or is not.
|
02:30:48
|
|
|
Transparent, right? Or when or how are we or how we not sharing because I came away from that meeting and I was like, I don't like
|
02:30:56
|
|
|
that. There's going to be two sides of what happened here, you know, and, and I just want to be more. I just would rather have an
|
02:31:03
|
|
|
audience when things are happening. Like there needs to be more of that.
|
02:31:10
|
|
|
I I feel, 'cause you know.
|
02:31:19
|
|
|
But that's not what's happening. We're in. What we're saying is it was in the public, it went on an agenda to go through the
|
02:32:29
|
|
|
study. The studies been happening. And as I explained, you will be brought into those meetings, you will see it, you will get to
|
02:32:35
|
|
|
review it all. It goes through the stakeholder. Then after that meeting you'll see it. Then it'll go through the public because
|
02:32:41
|
|
|
that's the procedure of policy analysis.
|
02:32:47
|
|
|
Well, and I just want to add.
|
02:32:53
|
|
|
When we started this meeting, this room was full and now this room is dwindling because it's getting light. If we do everything in
|
02:32:55
|
|
|
a public meeting, I have volunteered my time. I do get paid what I believe is a minimum wage, minimal, not minimum, and I just
|
02:33:04
|
|
|
don't see the endurance of the public being able to. I think there are some people that would be able to come to if we had a
|
02:33:12
|
|
|
public meeting every day. I think there's some people that would join, but the public can only do so much and I think that.
|
02:33:20
|
|
|
And so I am trying really hard to take what you guys are saying and put it here. I might not agree with everything you guys are
|
02:34:30
|
|
|
saying, but I genuinely take what you're saying into consideration and I try to represent people as I'm in these meetings. Now,
|
02:34:36
|
|
|
everyone in Vineyard isn't here right now. There's a lot of people out there that I'm trying to think, OK, what would so and so
|
02:34:42
|
|
|
that works. Three jobs that lives in an apartment that you can't afford time to come to these meetings. I want to make sure I'm
|
02:34:49
|
|
|
still representing her or.
|
02:34:55
|
|
|
I don't need to get into this, but I'm saying that asking for more public meetings and acting like we aren't being transparent is
|
02:35:01
|
|
|
really unfair. Because I feel like we really try for all of that and we're not perfect and there are definitely ways for us to
|
02:35:08
|
|
|
improve. But I think what you're asking for is very it's, it's too far off. We can't have public meetings for everything we do.
|
02:35:16
|
|
|
I would suggest since we've been talking about this for about 20 minutes.
|
02:35:25
|
|
|
All right, I'm going to turn that time over to Amber.
|
02:36:38
|
|
|
With my mic on, I'm going to go through this quickly. The legislative session is over. I'll just highlight a couple of bills. HB
|
02:36:42
|
|
|
488, transportation funding modifications went through and this provides additional ongoing funding for the Transit Transportation
|
02:36:47
|
|
|
Investment Fund.
|
02:36:52
|
|
|
And it also allows a local auction for sales tax for transportation or public safety purposes.
|
02:36:59
|
|
|
Then we also have the Housing and Transit reinvestment zone amendments.
|
02:37:06
|
|
|
Which enhances and clarifies housing affordability and make some changes to the HDRZ zone which we have. And then they did the
|
02:37:11
|
|
|
fizz as well, which is similar to the HDRC which passed which is the, I'm trying to remember what it stands for first time
|
02:37:19
|
|
|
investment zone act. Now that cannot be over the HTRZ zone, but it is another area.
|
02:37:26
|
|
|
Where you can get.
|
02:37:35
|
|
|
Let's see, I'm reorganizing my notes here. So the new tool for city to propose medium density city or Town Center and it is a way
|
02:37:38
|
|
|
to get owner occupation for at least the 1st 25 years. They're looking at getting affordable, affordable homes and the face zone
|
02:37:44
|
|
|
needs to be mixed-use.
|
02:37:50
|
|
|
I can actually go through and just create an overall legislative wrap up for the council and e-mail that out to you so we're not
|
02:37:57
|
|
|
here all day. Fight Commission met. They are going to be updating their priorities. They are working on some bylaws and they are.
|
02:38:03
|
|
|
Let's see.
|
02:38:09
|
|
|
They are next meeting is going to be April 23rd. The Community garden is accepting applications until the 18th so make sure you
|
02:38:16
|
|
|
get those in the following week. They will select the winners by a lottery and the garden director position is opened applied for
|
02:38:21
|
|
|
as well.
|
02:38:25
|
|
|
All right. Thank you, Marty.
|
02:38:32
|
|
|
I'm OK.
|
02:38:34
|
|
|
OK, Sarah.
|
02:38:36
|
|
|
I just wanted to thank nothing for the new flag. I appreciate it.
|
02:38:40
|
|
|
Tip, I apologize, I did not mention the survey results and they will be posted. I believe the team putting that together will be
|
02:38:46
|
|
|
posting it. So you'll be you'll have the opportunities to get and I appreciate Jake mentioning the 12 NI can't remember who talked
|
02:38:52
|
|
|
about the parking lot for UTA. It's been under negotiation for some time of seeing when they're going to put financing and how we
|
02:38:58
|
|
|
can help them and what we can do to facilitate that improvement.
|
02:39:05
|
|
|
But.
|
02:39:13
|
|
|
I think something that should be discussed here is as we work on opening up access for 16th and Vineyard Connector and 12th North
|
02:39:14
|
|
|
and 4th North and the the station that they are all projects that are being simultaneously worked on. Because if we were just to
|
02:39:22
|
|
|
focus on just the front runner space and parking lot, we wouldn't be be able to take care of the infrastructure that's necessary
|
02:39:30
|
|
|
for the city. So 1200 N was funded which was exciting.
|
02:39:38
|
|
|
And at the same time, I talked to Sarah about this and she said, why aren't we articulating this better? But we're also working
|
02:39:46
|
|
|
very.
|
02:39:49
|
|
|
Hard on opening up the access point at 400 N, not just on the main line.
|
02:39:54
|
|
|
By trail aside, but also the Geneva access point, so both sides. So we talked about it a lot, but I want to emphasize that we're
|
02:40:01
|
|
|
working on that project we're working on.
|
02:40:06
|
|
|
Widening 800 N, as we saw in our transportation.
|
02:40:13
|
|
|
All of these things are being worked on together. We have a great team that's been working on all of these things. So if you have
|
02:40:16
|
|
|
suggestions for them, if you're noticing an issue, Please remember to send it into our city as well. Yeah, our government
|
02:40:21
|
|
|
consultants will be here at the next meeting. OK? So if you have questions on the legislative recap, they'll be here to answer
|
02:40:25
|
|
|
those questions as well.
|
02:40:30
|
|
|
So I just wonder if there's a way there's so many people that are curious about the comments in the sessions that Jake and I had.
|
02:40:38
|
|
|
Is it possible to put an attachment on the city page so if people want to go and look at them, they can They can dig through and
|
02:40:46
|
|
|
read everything that was commented. And then another thing, did you guys get those? I sent them over. Yeah, we have them all typed
|
02:40:52
|
|
|
up. I sent them to you, Eric. Did you get them?
|
02:40:58
|
|
|
All of the sticky, the post it note you, you got them. So they've all been typed up. None of you guys responded. So I was like,
|
02:41:05
|
|
|
David Laurie, thank you very much. And so you have all those. So is it, is it possible to do an attachment on either the social
|
02:41:12
|
|
|
media page or somewhere else where people can have access to them?
|
02:41:18
|
|
|
Awesome. And then and then Mayor, I appreciate you.
|
02:41:27
|
|
|
Acknowledging our conversation with 1200 N versus 400 NI, think part of the frustration that you here today is that a lot of the
|
02:41:32
|
|
|
citizens feel like their request and their concerns are falling on deaf ears and they don't get an update that we're actually
|
02:41:39
|
|
|
taking them seriously. And I feel like the more we acknowledge what they're saying and they start to see that we are actually
|
02:41:47
|
|
|
implementing their concerns and their frustration that a lot of the dynamic and the energy will change.
|
02:41:55
|
|
|
That comment that you did, just like how can we articulate it more because we might be saying it in the transportation plan, we
|
02:42:03
|
|
|
might be making a brief update about it, but just really hammering on here are our plans. This is what we're doing is a good
|
02:42:09
|
|
|
point, Sarah, thank you. So they can start to see that absolutely concerns are implemented. Yeah, I agree with you. All right,
|
02:42:16
|
|
|
let's go ahead and move on to our consent items. If there isn't any discussion that needs to be had, I just need a motion.
|
02:42:22
|
|
|
I move to approve the consent items as presented. All right, first by Amber.
|
02:42:30
|
|
|
Did we?
|
02:42:38
|
|
|
I thought something's removed off and something's removed on, right?
|
02:42:41
|
|
|
We're just doing the meeting minutes and the historical flag. That's right. Yep.
|
02:42:46
|
|
|
Are we putting the historical flag up? Is that what we're doing? Amber, let's go ahead and do 6.1 and 6.2. I move to approve item
|
02:42:52
|
|
|
6.1 and 6.2. Great. Can I get a second? Second. Thank you, Marley. First by Amber, second by Marty. All in favor. Aye. 6.3 is up
|
02:43:00
|
|
|
for discussing. Go ahead, Jake. I just think we need to be on the record of what flag we're voting for because I want to be for
|
02:43:07
|
|
|
the old historical flag flag if they do. Sarah, did you want to go ahead and introduce the topic?
|
02:43:15
|
|
|
Well, yeah, I I asked for that, for the historic flag to be flown. I know there's it's been kind of a divisive issue. And so I'm
|
02:43:23
|
|
|
not opposed to flying them both, but I think they both need to be represented.
|
02:43:30
|
|
|
And do you need, can you clarify how we would have to do it so that it's understood by the public? There was a law passed during
|
02:43:38
|
|
|
the last legislative session that if you fly both, that you fly the new one higher than the old one.
|
02:43:44
|
|
|
Right now. So if you if you fly both, that's the way you have to do it.
|
02:43:52
|
|
|
What if you have a second flag? I'm OK with that. All right, everybody, this item then would be to make sure that we fly the
|
02:43:57
|
|
|
original flag as well. So any other discussion on it? One quick point. Yeah, the legislation that passed dictates when that flag
|
02:44:04
|
|
|
is the historical flag is flown and it is flown on the 12 historic or the 12 legal holidays of the year. And so that was those are
|
02:44:12
|
|
|
the days that we will be flying that flag. Oh, so we're not going to have it up all the time just on those holidays.
|
02:44:19
|
|
|
We can't fight all the time. The law dictated that it be flown on legal holidays.
|
02:44:28
|
|
|
That I thought we could, I thought that you could always choose to have both. You know what, how about this? Let's clarify it
|
02:44:35
|
|
|
because I, I was under the same assumption, but let's just clarify and then our vote will go with whatever the law states. Does
|
02:44:39
|
|
|
that work?
|
02:44:44
|
|
|
Yeah, let me make sure I understand it. So if the law allows flexibility, then we fly both all the time. If the law restricts the
|
02:44:50
|
|
|
flying of the historic flag to the holidays, then we follow that. Does that work? Okay, we did our best. Is there any debate?
|
02:44:56
|
|
|
Yeah, and I think we all love the idea, so.
|
02:45:03
|
|
|
I just need a motion if no other discussions moving forward. So I'll move to approve item 6.3 with the clarification that we will
|
02:45:10
|
|
|
follow state mandated state law.
|
02:45:17
|
|
|
Yeah. Is that clear enough? OK, first by Marty.
|
02:45:25
|
|
|
Second, Second by Amber, All in favor, aye. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to business Item Public Hearing 8.1 Budget
|
02:45:29
|
|
|
Amendment Resolution 2024-1.
|
02:45:34
|
|
|
And Chrissy, our Finance Director, will present this proposed change.
|
02:45:39
|
|
|
It's Christy Bayless, finance director.
|
02:45:47
|
|
|
I think we've all had a chance to review this. It's pretty cut and dried. When we do a budget, we project taxes that we anticipate
|
02:45:49
|
|
|
coming in throughout the years the county gives us.
|
02:45:55
|
|
|
Because that too collects the property taxes as they give us. It's an idea of over, over or we're under. This year we projected a
|
02:46:01
|
|
|
little bit low, so the sun's coming a little bit more and move that there. We would like to take the money that we have gotten
|
02:46:07
|
|
|
from that and put it towards a senior planner position. I think you have all heard how how many master plans we have going on and
|
02:46:13
|
|
|
the things that are happening with that department and it is definitely a need. The second thing I want to bring to your attention
|
02:46:19
|
|
|
is.
|
02:46:25
|
|
|
A ULA grant that we received for the 22,500 that is going to go towards putting sand volleyball pits down on the lakefront.
|
02:46:32
|
|
|
Awesome. OK, Can I get a motion to open a public hearing?
|
02:46:42
|
|
|
Thank you. Marty, can I get a second? Thanks, Jake. All in favor, Aye. All right. We're in a public hearing. Is there any comments
|
02:46:48
|
|
|
from the public? We had a public hearing on this and then we continued it so that you would ask additional questions. So Daria,
|
02:46:53
|
|
|
come up to the microphone, state your name, where you're from and what your question is.
|
02:46:59
|
|
|
Daria Evans in your resident. I just have a question for Morgan. Those staff volleyball kids, are they going to be on the Vineyard
|
02:47:11
|
|
|
beats?
|
02:47:15
|
|
|
Where are they going, you said, the lake Fritz? Or are they going to be on that new Vineyard beach?
|
02:47:20
|
|
|
So I know that our Parks and Recreation director is looking at a few spots, I think near near the beach, but also there's the, the
|
02:47:25
|
|
|
townhomes that at lakefront community that are just South of that. There's a public easement on either side of the, the clubhouse.
|
02:47:32
|
|
|
And we, we're in the process of working with edge homes. The developer develops that to try and clear that that area. But that
|
02:47:40
|
|
|
actually might be a really good spot too, because it's, it would be sandwiched between the two public trails.
|
02:47:47
|
|
|
And then access via the easement. So I think he's considering kind of both spots. OK, So that spot you're talking about, that's
|
02:47:55
|
|
|
that weedy area that used to be kind of grassy. And now it's just. Yeah. And hopefully we can get that cleaned up soon so that
|
02:48:01
|
|
|
that'll be part of it. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Daria.
|
02:48:06
|
|
|
Any other questions?
|
02:48:14
|
|
|
OK.
|
02:48:17
|
|
|
Darlene Price Villas, this is just a very common sort of question. This year is the first year I've been able to or that I'm doing
|
02:48:24
|
|
|
IRS taxes, right. And so the IRS has asked me when I do my budget and I say, for example, travel, they want to know what exactly
|
02:48:31
|
|
|
the travel went to where I went and why that is considered a deduction. I would like to see the same kind of transparency with our
|
02:48:38
|
|
|
budget.
|
02:48:45
|
|
|
That we've got. So if you say it's travel, then where are you going? List where you're going and how much each one of those are
|
02:48:53
|
|
|
going to cost. Same thing with miscellaneous. What is miscellaneous? Is it screws and bolts for the school buses? What is that?
|
02:49:01
|
|
|
Instead of just putting a big lump sum in a miscellaneous, I would like to see more specific kinds of things listed instead of
|
02:49:09
|
|
|
just a generic travel and this is how much it's going to cost. That would just help me as a person who is now paying more taxes.
|
02:49:17
|
|
|
And to be more supportive. Thank you.
|
02:49:26
|
|
|
Oh, OK. OK. Thank you.
|
02:49:32
|
|
|
All right, any other comments?
|
02:49:35
|
|
|
Hey, something else. There are no other comments. I'm going to close the public hearing. Can I get a motion so moved? Thank you,
|
02:49:38
|
|
|
Amber, can I get a second?
|
02:49:41
|
|
|
I'll second thank you, Sarah. All in favor, Hi. Hi. All right, we are now out of a public hearing.
|
02:49:46
|
|
|
Council, do you have discussion on this item?
|
02:49:54
|
|
|
Sarah, I don't know who. I don't want to go 1st every time. Does anyone want to go first? I'm just looking around.
|
02:50:01
|
|
|
I don't have anything to say, so I'm OK with that. OK. Thank you, Marty. I'm ready to move forward with it.
|
02:50:06
|
|
|
OK. Thank you, Amber.
|
02:50:12
|
|
|
You know, we push this back on the last two meetings just because we're waiting for numbers and we still haven't, we still haven't
|
02:50:17
|
|
|
gotten those. And you know, I, I want to do a complete sister city study of where we are. If we commit to hiring someone, we're
|
02:50:24
|
|
|
not going to hire them for the end of this year. We're probably going to have that position forever, right? And so I haven't seen
|
02:50:32
|
|
|
the finance finances for the fire station. It's a top priority for us.
|
02:50:39
|
|
|
And voted in and so they just don't have the bandwidth without.
|
02:51:26
|
|
|
The additional support and tools to complete the jobs that need to be done with a fast growing city. And so I feel really ready to
|
02:51:32
|
|
|
move forward on this. Yeah, Christie, I appreciate you responding to my e-mail to answer my question where that money comes from
|
02:51:38
|
|
|
and you put it in here. So I appreciate that.
|
02:51:43
|
|
|
Like was just spoken by.
|
02:51:51
|
|
|
Mr. Price, sorry, we moving forward we'd like to see more more explanation besides just miscellaneous, but I feel comfortable
|
02:51:58
|
|
|
moving forward voting for this today with the understanding Morgan replied to me on e-mail. So I understand you have a heavy load
|
02:52:05
|
|
|
and and that this this actually comes from from an excess that you anticipate. Is that correct? So I feel OK about moving forward
|
02:52:12
|
|
|
with it today. All right, if there are no further comments, I just need a motion and this is done by ordinance. So we will a
|
02:52:19
|
|
|
resolution.
|
02:52:27
|
|
|
So we will have a roll call. I move to adopt Resolution 202401 proposed 2024 budget amendment #3 is presented by staff. All right,
|
02:52:35
|
|
|
we have a first fight. Amber, I need a second.
|
02:52:41
|
|
|
Second, Second by Sarah and this is done by roll call Sarah.
|
02:52:48
|
|
|
Marty.
|
02:52:55
|
|
|
Yay, Amber. Aye and Jake. All right, thank you. We will move on to 8.2 Public hearing General plan update Goal 2 technology
|
02:52:57
|
|
|
element. We had talked about this in a prior prior work session. We'll go ahead and start out by opening the public hearing.
|
02:53:06
|
|
|
I need a motion to open a public hearing. Second, Marty, second by Amber. All in favor. Aye, aye, All right. And our economic,
|
02:53:16
|
|
|
our, our community development Director, Morgan Brim will present this technology element that deals with privacy.
|
02:53:24
|
|
|
Great. Thank you, Mayor and members of the council. Let me see if I can get this up a little bit.
|
02:53:34
|
|
|
Scroll in there we go. So hopefully you're I'll speak, so hopefully you're able to see this. So we were directed by the City
|
02:53:40
|
|
|
Council. It was in June of last year to put together some policy or or some additional language to our general plan strategies
|
02:53:48
|
|
|
under the technology chapter that would help guide privacy and the protection of like sensitive information as we implement
|
02:53:55
|
|
|
technology.
|
02:54:02
|
|
|
And so, as we know, technology is.
|
02:54:10
|
|
|
There's always advances and things that could help us from the City side, but we need to ensure that it's gonna protect
|
02:54:13
|
|
|
information of our public.
|
02:54:17
|
|
|
And that information is being utilized properly. And so under these, there are 6 strategies. Four of those are new strategies 4-5
|
02:54:24
|
|
|
and six. And then strategy three has some additional language. So I'll read through these fairly quickly. So Strategy 3 utilized
|
02:54:31
|
|
|
communication technology to increase public awareness and involvement in city planning and decision making.
|
02:54:38
|
|
|
Strategy 6 update forums on which personal information is collected to include a notice of purpose and use of information. Ensure
|
02:55:18
|
|
|
use of information is limited to those purposes and uses and so we, the Planning Commission, did assign.
|
02:55:24
|
|
|
Commissioner Bramwell, who is actually the state privacy officer. So we're very lucky to have that, that resource to work, to work
|
02:55:33
|
|
|
with us. We worked with him and also our legal counsel and drafting these we did, we held a.
|
02:55:40
|
|
|
A work session with the City Council, work session with the Planning Commission, and also a public hearing with the Planning
|
02:55:47
|
|
|
Commission. And they did recommend approval in their last meeting. Happy to answer any questions you may have. All right, great.
|
02:55:52
|
|
|
Are there any questions from the public about this privacy policy?
|
02:55:57
|
|
|
OK. Seeing if there's none, I'm going to go out of the public hearing. Can I get a motion? Thank you, Amber, I need a second.
|
02:56:05
|
|
|
Second by Marty, All in favor, aye. All right, Council, do you have questions, thoughts, input, things you would like to change?
|
02:56:12
|
|
|
I'm just going to thank you. We're going through the operational.
|
02:56:22
|
|
|
Level of getting all of this put together and it's so expansive and it's going to take a lot of work, but having this framework is
|
02:56:26
|
|
|
going to make it very easy for us and easy for the public to follow along as well.
|
02:56:31
|
|
|
My comment is also I love the grassroots effort of.
|
02:56:38
|
|
|
Morgan and them of how they did that. I would love to do a similar thing exactly like that with public records. I know I just
|
02:56:44
|
|
|
wanted to make it aware of you guys. I've had five or six people that have said, hey, you know, I want your records on your phone
|
02:56:50
|
|
|
or I want this and that. And I'm like, well, they're on my private phone right now. I'd I'd give you my phone, look at it, but I
|
02:56:56
|
|
|
don't, you know, and so I think a great general plan update or a great records request that citizens each of you guys could put
|
02:57:02
|
|
|
someone on it.
|
02:57:08
|
|
|
You know, I could suggest people that support you guys that want it and I can suggest people and just.
|
02:57:16
|
|
|
Look at it and go above and beyond the grammar process.
|
02:57:21
|
|
|
You know, so I just I just love how this.
|
02:57:27
|
|
|
Isn't one of us that has nothing to do with anything, right? Yes. I'm saying I do want to say I love this and let's bring it up
|
02:57:30
|
|
|
together. But let's focus on the agenda item right now. Is there anything that you want to add on this privacy policy in
|
02:57:37
|
|
|
particular? Except for you love this plan. Just the culture of how it was created. OK, thanks. Yeah, I feel like it was a great
|
02:57:43
|
|
|
culture. And Amber, thank you. And Chris Bramwell, he's not here, but he really did a great job. And your whole team.
|
02:57:50
|
|
|
Just going out and meeting with a lot of people around the stage and bringing in a lot of voices to us. So thank you for that.
|
02:57:56
|
|
|
Marty or Sarah, do you have any comments before we make a motion? No. OK, then if there's no other comments, I would just need a
|
02:58:02
|
|
|
motion.
|
02:58:08
|
|
|
We already went out of public. And yes, I move to adopt Ordinance 2024, Dash 4 to amend the technology element of the Vineyard
|
02:58:15
|
|
|
General Plan to safeguard privacy and the protection of sensitive information and the implementation of technology as presented.
|
02:58:23
|
|
|
All right, we have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? Thank you, Sarah. Any discussion? If not, I'm going to call Roll call,
|
02:58:31
|
|
|
Jake. Aye, Amber. Aye aye, Marty. Yay, Sarah. Yes. All right.
|
02:58:39
|
|
|
We'll go ahead and move on to a discussion and action items of Vineyard Days celebration. This is a fireworks versus a drone show.
|
02:58:47
|
|
|
You've been able to see the three options presented before you. I don't know who is presenting on this because it is not in my
|
02:58:55
|
|
|
packet. Sorry, this is this is an Anna item, but she was not able to be with us tonight. So the three options are we have a 200
|
02:59:03
|
|
|
drone show that is 22,000 approximately 5100 drone show that is 15,000.
|
02:59:11
|
|
|
And we have.
|
02:59:20
|
|
|
Fireworks show option with 2 1/2 inch shells is kind of the specifics there, which would be similar to the previous fireworks show
|
02:59:22
|
|
|
that was a mix of 2 1/2 inch and three inch shells.
|
02:59:28
|
|
|
That cost just a little over 14,000. The accommodation that was made for the fireworks show, if that's the the route that you
|
02:59:34
|
|
|
choose, was to put the fireworks show behind Freedom Elementary. They offered that location so that viewers can sit and relax and
|
02:59:40
|
|
|
enjoy the show from Grove Park and not worry about any of the fireworks fallout and and kind of create that safety buffer between
|
02:59:47
|
|
|
the two.
|
02:59:53
|
|
|
