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Give me just a second. 00:00:01
Started. 00:00:05
It is still August 28th, 2024. The time is 6:34 PM. 00:00:08
And we are going to get our Vineyard City Council meeting rolling. We'll start with our proclamation. I'll go ahead and read this. 00:00:15
Proclamation 2024, Dash 06. 00:00:20
Is a constitutional proclamation. 00:00:26
Whereas. 00:00:30
September 17th, 2024. 00:00:31
Marks the 237th annual or anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional 00:00:35
Convention and WHEREAS every anniversary of the Constitution provides a historic opportunity for all Americans to learn about and 00:00:42
to reflect upon the rights and privileges. 00:00:49
Of citizenship and its responsibilities. 00:00:56
And whereas it is fitting improper to record official recognition to this magnificent document in its memorable anniversary. 00:00:58
Into the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. 00:01:06
Now, therefore, I Julie, former mayor of the city of Vineyard. 00:01:11
Utah hereby proclaim the month of September 2024 as Constitution Month and urge all citizens to study the Constitution and reflect 00:01:14
on the privilege of being an American with all the rights and responsibilities which that privilege involves. 00:01:22
Go ahead and sign this. 00:01:31
And then we're going to go ahead and move into. 00:01:40
The staff report and today we have our government consultants here with us today and I just wanted to invite them up to give us a 00:01:44
report as we start to move into the legislative session. 00:01:49
Come on up. 00:01:55
Thank you, Mayor council members. 00:02:01
Happy to be with you today. 00:02:04
Give you an update on where things are at the state level. There's a lot of activity. This is when the busy season begins. 00:02:07
Going into the fall. 00:02:13
The Legislature met last week in its interim session. 00:02:15
There's a flurry of activity around a ballot measure. You may have heard about that. 00:02:19
There's a there's a constitutional amendment on the ballot this fall. 00:02:23
That affects how ballot initiatives will be. 00:02:27
Structure going to state of Utah. It should have passed. 00:02:30
That was done in reaction to some state Supreme Court, state Supreme Court ruling. 00:02:35
And and. 00:02:39
The state can address. 00:02:42
Laws are passed by citizen initiatives. 00:02:43
So that's coming forward and it's that. 00:02:46
That in addition to that on the ballot, there's other constitutional amendments and other things will be considered including. 00:02:48
For our deputy, including making the chair of the Constitutional State Office. 00:02:55
So. 00:02:58
Path will be good. 00:03:00
But this is also the time when when the legislative committees start preparing. 00:03:04
Legislative committee bills, which are formal actions by a committee. 00:03:10
If they pass a bill in in August, September, October. 00:03:13
And it passes. 00:03:17
With a supermajority of the committee, then it becomes what's called the committee bill. Those bills skip the can't skip the 00:03:19
committee process in a legislative session. So there's a way to expedite. 00:03:24
Bill. So that activity begins now. 00:03:29
And and and. 00:03:31
There will be several aggressive legislators who will have try to get the bills through committees in advance because. 00:03:33
It's become become such. 00:03:39
Umm, there creates such a backlog during the session it's hard to get things done. 00:03:44
So, umm. 00:03:47
As we see more bills every year in the legislature, the committee bills will become more popular. 00:03:49
We'll be watching for those. Some of those will will. 00:03:54
Could potentially affect the city. 00:03:58
There will be transportation bills, for example. 00:04:00
There will be. There could be. 00:04:03
A bill on tax exec financing, in fact. 00:04:06
This coming session, so we'll watch for those coming forward with me. 00:04:09
Affect the city may be of interest to the city. 00:04:13
And let you know what those are when they're made available. 00:04:15
But as you know, most bills aren't a public until into the legislative session, sometimes late into the legislative session. 00:04:18
So we like them earlier because it's an easier way to get a hold of them. 00:04:24
Also, this is the time when the governor's office, the executive branch, starts preparing their budget. 00:04:28
The governor submits his budget to. 00:04:34
The Legislature every fall. 00:04:37
Usually October. 00:04:39
That's a recommendation of a budget because the legislative branches. 00:04:41
Has the power of the purse, as you know so. 00:04:45
Just a recommendation that the Governors Office prepares for taking feedback from all the executive agencies. Right now that 00:04:47
includes. 00:04:51
Issues like roads and transit and. 00:04:55
Other things that the state pays for. 00:04:58
And so there's. 00:05:02
There will be a formative activity in September and October. 00:05:03
Regarding. 00:05:07
Spending issues regarding. 00:05:09
Probably housing. Probably. 00:05:11
Transportation, probably lots of things that you all want to be aware of and we'll be watching those and. 00:05:13
And. 00:05:18
We'll make you aware of what we know of when we know of it that would have impact on the city so we can have the input early. 00:05:20
It's a lot easier to me things early than to try to change things late. 00:05:26
So, umm. 00:05:30
In addition to that, we've been working. 00:05:32
Umm, with the city, with staff, and with the mayor on. 00:05:35
Some of the regional issues like. 00:05:40
The ongoing discussions with the United Pacific Railroad about realignment of rail lines and how that impacts the region. 00:05:43
There are discussions going on about regional transportation issues that. 00:05:49
That regarding the Olympics, the Olympics. 00:05:53
Transportation plan has been published, but it doesn't include a lot of things that will get attitude overtime. 00:05:58
I'm so old that I was actually working for Senator Bob Bennett. 00:06:04
US Senator Bob Bennett. 00:06:09
Who is an appropriator for the last for the last Olympics? 00:06:11
And there will be. 00:06:14
A lot of money that comes from the federal government to support the Olympics. 00:06:17
And. 00:06:20
Umm, how that gets allocated and how that gets how those appropriations get done. 00:06:21
And where they get done. 00:06:26
Will have a big impact on the state it's. 00:06:29
Big cash infusion for the state and a lot of infrastructure in particular. 00:06:31
Can be done in those periods of time. 00:06:35
There's. So there were conversations, for example. 00:06:38
Going on now about. 00:06:40
The fact that the Provo airport is increasing in its service, it's increasing, including international service. 00:06:41
And moving people from that airport to venues. 00:06:47
Whether it be the ice rink, which will be just. 00:06:50
Up the street or whether the up to Heber Valley. 00:06:53
Or two points N how you move people from that airport efficiently that are here for the games would be discussed. 00:06:58
And what they were very likely to be funding. 00:07:05
Associated with that. And so those conversations are starting now because there's the only thing planning will begin. 00:07:07
Because 10 years will go by fast. So again. 00:07:13
You're in the inner city, being in the middle of Visit Valley and on the transportation corridors. 00:07:16
You'll want to be part of this conversation. So we're watching those and. 00:07:23
Monitoring those as well. 00:07:26
There, there will always be. 00:07:28
A variety of water issues and other. 00:07:31
Things that come up that could affect your city, so we watch for those. 00:07:33
And. 00:07:37
I guess if you have any questions I'm happy to take them, but. 00:07:38
What starts really post Labor Day, things get really crazy. One of the things that we're going to be doing as we move into this 00:07:41
year is we're going to be having legislative review meetings with our government consultants. 00:07:47
So we can start prepping for what we want to see as a council and then we'll bring that back if there's ongoing projects, of 00:07:54
course, like the railroad and our transit and transportation and water and everything that Seth mentioned, but. 00:08:00
Other things that were interested, we'll have those discussions down the line. So any questions? 00:08:07
Just say one for the community. With the constitutional amendments on the ballot, do you have a recommendation? Where? 00:08:15
Voters can go and get more information. 00:08:21
Yeah, well, the Lieutenant Governor's office will have links to. 00:08:24
Probe each side, pro and con the same thing, as published in the Voter Information Guide. 00:08:28
That have been written yet, but they will be. 00:08:33
I can't remember the timeline, they're required well in advance and so. 00:08:35
The if you go to elections that you Gov you'll be able to find links to those. 00:08:39
In addition. 00:08:44
I can promise you there will be no shortage of information. 00:08:45
Sent to you by. 00:08:48
Both sides of all issues. 00:08:50
It'll be election year. 00:08:54
Male. Overwhelming. 00:08:56
Volumes in your mailboxes again. 00:08:58
But some of these issues are are. 00:08:59
Can be pretty important to how things function in the state, especially when they talk about. 00:09:03
Validations and election laws and things like that. 00:09:10
The constitutional landline, so those ballot measures have written. 00:09:12
Pro and cons that get published so those of you they'll be available soon. 00:09:16
Thank you. Yeah. 00:09:20
Any other questions? 00:09:21
Yeah, I have a lot, but I don't know how much time you're gonna give me. We don't have a lot of time for this, but you could take 00:09:23
a few if you have some questions that you want to take offline. I know. Yeah, I'd just like to ask them publicly. And if you could 00:09:28
get back to me, how many different people could we get a list of everyone that you represent currently so that we can look and 00:09:33
check for conflicts of interest? Yeah, you can. It's also that's also public information because we register publicly, so you can 00:09:38
get a lobbyist.utah.gov. 00:09:44
And that's listed there. Our clients are listed there. 00:09:49
All of our previous clients are actually was there, so when you unregister for client it stays there so you can see past clients 00:09:52
as well. 00:09:54
I noticed in the article that it was published by the Solid Tribune through the. 00:09:58
I want to quote this right. 00:10:05
Journalism Project. 00:10:07
That you guys it was disclosed that you guys. 00:10:09
Umm, it was thought by the Bensons to not have your names released and I went to court over the past four years. 00:10:14
And you guys were a subcontractor listed. Why? Why are we fighting to not know that you're connected? I'm sorry when you say you 00:10:21
guys what? 00:10:24
For university. 00:10:28
In particular. 00:10:29
The Big Game Forever Foundation. 00:10:31
You guys were subcontractors and made a total. 00:10:34
20%, it's in the article. My question is, is why are we fighting for four years for the Ryan Benson and States Consulting to hide 00:10:40
the fact that you're one of the subcontractors in that? 00:10:47
Fighting for the Grey wolf. 00:10:54
Well, I'm not sure where you're getting the term hiding, but we're just, I wasn't involved in any of that, so you can't answer 00:10:56
that question. 00:10:59
Taking it to court to the records request to stop it from coming up. I wasn't involved in any of that, so I can't answer your 00:11:03
question of order. I don't know what this has to do with our council. So if you could clarify and. 00:11:09
But this doesn't have anything to do with us, and we've had no. 00:11:16
Can you clarify what you mean? Because I don't see it right now. Yeah, it has to do with how many different people he's 00:11:21
representing and if there's a conflict of interest. And I think you've stated clearly that it's made public. It's online, right? 00:11:27
But as a subcontractor that wouldn't be listed, only the main contractor. It was listed at the register. 00:11:33
You can see the number I was registered for then. 00:11:40
At that time, I was registered for as a subcontractor, yeah. 00:11:42
Hi, Mayor, if. 00:11:46
If the line of question is going to be directed at character and fitness issues, yes, those can be taken to closed session or a 00:11:50
conversation with Mr. Hartman. And I'm happy to have a conversation with you offline about all of these questions I've offered in 00:11:56
the past. Please refrain from any of those questions in this meeting that has anything to do with character or fitness. Thank you. 00:12:02
Any other questions that are relevant to this meeting? 00:12:11
I just like to state for the record that I disagree with the way in which the city approves this. 00:12:15
Just to have it on the record in a nice, kind way. I don't know what you mean by approves this, just having a. 00:12:20
A lobbyist, I don't think it's the approach that they need to. They should have. OK, thank you. All right, thank you so much. Does 00:12:27
anybody else have any other questions or comments? 00:12:31
Thanks for all you do. We appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks. 00:12:36
All right. 00:12:42
That moves us into a closed session. 00:12:44
What we will do is you guys can remain here and our council will leave the room for a closed session and I'm going to have. 00:12:47
And we'll get a motion to go into it. This will be for the discussion of character, professional competence. 00:12:56
Or physical or mental health? 00:13:02
Of an individual. 00:13:04
So I need a motion to go into that. Do I have to restate that? Yes, please. 00:13:05
Just wanted to say it for the public so they knew. 00:13:10
OK, I'm going to go into a closed session immediately in the conference room here at the city offices. 00:13:13
To discuss the character of professional competence or physical or mental health of an individual. 00:13:18
OK, can I get a second? 00:13:23
2nd. 00:13:28
Roll call, Say yes, member. Aye, yes. 00:13:31
Yes, all right. We will be back. 00:13:34
OK. Thank you for waiting and for your patience. 00:13:44
We are going to move on to appointments. 00:13:47
Appointment of a library board member. 00:13:51
We have Diana Cecile here to fill the remainder of Pilar Steel's term as one of our. 00:13:55
Vineyard Library board members. 00:14:03
And she will fill out the remainder of ourselves term and I just need a motion to approve that appointment. 00:14:05
As an alternate for that term, and if you want to come up and say anything, you can. 00:14:14
Do you want to come up and say anything? 00:14:20
OK, come on up. 00:14:22
No, I don't have a lot to say, but thank you for this opportunity and I just love libraries so. 00:14:24
Thank you. Thank you. 00:14:30
All right. Can I get a motion? Yeah. I move to approve the mayor's appointment to the library that, I'm sorry, the Vineyard 00:14:31
Library board as presented. Can I get a second? 00:14:36
Second, all right. First by Marty, second by Sarah. All in favor. 00:14:42
Aye. All right, welcome. Thank you so much for taking the opportunity to serve our community. We appreciate it. 00:14:46
OK. 00:14:53
Should we do it with the Youth Council or in order? 00:14:55
OK, I was thinking we do the youth council and then we just do it all and get pictures all at the same time. 00:14:58
All right. The Youth Council, our executive board had an election and we have a new Youth Council mayor and manager, and so I'm 00:15:04
just going to read your names. 00:15:09
And make that appointment and then our council will vote you in and then we will go ahead and swear you all in and we'll get some 00:15:14
pictures with you. 00:15:17
So let's see, the elections were held on July 15th, 2024 and these are our youth Mayor Aslan May. 00:15:22
Youth Council City Manager Russell Rasmussen. 00:15:31
Youth Recorder. Beckham, SU Fuentes. 00:15:35
Use communications chair Dahlia de la Piedra Youth Services and Beautification Care Morgan. 00:15:38
Preet Youth Council activities chair Darius. 00:15:45
And city recorder Pamela Spencer will swear you guys in I was reading you into youth. OK, I need a I need a motion. 00:15:50
I did. I saw the city recorder saying and I even mentioned Pam. I mentioned all the names written. 00:15:59
I did OK. 00:16:05
All right, Can I get a motion to appoint those youth council members? 00:16:06
I move to a point. 00:16:11
I'm sorry, I moved to approve the mayor's appointments to the Vineyard Youth Council Executive Board as present. Thank you. Can I 00:16:13
get a second, second, second by Amber all in favor? 00:16:17
OK, now we will start our spring and ceremony. 00:16:23
Come on up pad. 00:16:27
YouTube stand up here like I don't have any more. 00:16:28
All right, so Russell and. 00:16:33
Come on up and stand in front of the bear there. 00:16:35
You're gonna repeat that for me? 00:16:41
No, raise your right. Go ahead. 00:16:43
There's your right hand. And then repeat after me. 00:16:46
I say your name. 00:16:49
Having been elected in a. 00:16:53
Pointed to the Youth Council Executive board and appointed Single Library Board. 00:16:54
Having been elected to the library board. 00:17:00
That's OK. 00:17:04
Having been elected and appointed to these Council Executive Board. 00:17:06
You solemnly swear. 00:17:12
That I will support, obey and defend. 00:17:17
The Constitution of the United States The Constitution. 00:17:21
United States and the Constitution of the State of Utah. Utah. 00:17:25
And that I will discharge the duties of my office. 00:17:31
Charged to do with my office with Fidelity. 00:17:34
Thank you. Congratulations. 00:17:38
OK, can we do a picture? 00:17:43
Pictures. 00:17:56
Shoot. Can we? I can't. Yeah. Thank you. 00:18:00
Did you come back? 00:18:10
Thank you. 00:18:19
Diane Russell, if you come over here, I'll have you sign up and we should thank you. 00:18:20
That's why. 00:18:25
All right, that brings us right into our work session. 00:18:36
We're gonna start out with a mobility device and a golf cart. Discussion by Lieutenant Rockwell. 00:18:39
And he'll present some recommended changes or options for our municipal code. 00:18:45
There are. There you are. 00:18:51
I will swap you because you might have to leave. Yes. 00:18:54
OK, we're actually going to move on to. 00:18:57
5.4 the residents on the North Point past discussion for potential opportunity for. 00:19:00
And passes for our residents. 00:19:07
Eric might have to leave a little bit early, so we're going to move this up. 00:19:09
OK, so. 00:19:13
Thank you everyone. This is kind of an exciting opportunity that we have. 00:19:14
We've been doing a little bit of research. 00:19:20
On neighboring cities and. 00:19:22
Every year we do a spring, a spring cleanup, and a fall cleanup, and we bring dumpsters into the city. 00:19:25
And there are some challenges associated with that. 00:19:31
For residents. 00:19:36
You don't always have the thing that you wanted to get rid of that's too large to put in the garbage can. 00:19:38
In the fall or in the spring on those specific dates. 00:19:43
And from a staffing standpoint, it takes a lot of work to get out there and keep that those bins smashed down. 00:19:46
And So what other cities have been doing and not all some some do what we do, but other cities have have. 00:19:52
Worked with North Point to establish a punch pass so. 00:19:59
Every resident in the city. 00:20:03
Gets what we're proposing would be a 2. 00:20:05
A2 punch pass option. 00:20:08
So that at any point during the year, if your dishwasher goes out, you can throw the dishwasher in the back of the vehicle, take 00:20:10
it to the transfer station. 00:20:14
And you use your punch pass and that waves the $12.00 fee. 00:20:19
For the first 625 lbs. 00:20:24
Of trash that you would like to take there that's kind of your large stuff so that you can clean up whenever that's convenient. 00:20:28
And we feel that from a convenient standpoint to residents. 00:20:33
And a convenient standpoint for. 00:20:38
Managing those spring and fall cleanups. 00:20:40
It would be a great option to shift to this. 00:20:44
Punch pass option in lieu of the spring and fall cleanups. 00:20:48
And I would add that. 00:20:53
A couple of small details. 00:20:55
The cost could be incorporated into our. 00:20:57
Our trash collection. 00:21:00
So that the punch path wouldn't cost anything extra for residents. 00:21:01
And the other. 00:21:06
Housekeeping item would be that you would need to. 00:21:08
All residents that have an account for trash collection would need to come to the city. 00:21:10
Grab a physical pass because we would need to do something on it to kind of make it. 00:21:14
Unique. Umm. 00:21:18
But that that would be how that project or process would work. 00:21:20
Yeah. And there's different options. We can lookout with option or opt out. One of the reasons that this conversation came forward 00:21:24
is because. 00:21:28
There are some of the dumpsters that are being over overfilled in the community and it's really difficult to clean them up and so 00:21:31
the idea was to relock those dumpsters. 00:21:36
One of the reasons why it's there is because there was so much dumping happening along the shoreline and in different various 00:21:42
areas where we were trying to say please don't put your couches on the side of the road or down by the shorelines. 00:21:48
And we needed to go pick up trash and then bring it to these areas. But now they're overfilling and they're overfilling 00:21:55
continuously. And even though we do the spring and fall clean up, I think residents are looking for another option. And so we 00:22:01
wanted you to start vetting what that looks like and how to either participate or why you would or wouldn't want to participate. 00:22:08
So if you have any questions or discussion points tonight as you. 00:22:14
Heard from residents or if you have. 00:22:20
Thoughts about how to move into a program like that? This would be a great time to discuss it before we bring it back to a 00:22:22
business item. 00:22:26
I'm torn because I know a lot of residents are constantly texting me throughout the year. 00:22:31
Hey, I've been waiting for the spring cleanup. 00:22:37
So it would be cool to be able to say, oh, you don't have to wait. Like you can load up your truck and then take it. But a lot of 00:22:40
residents. 00:22:43
Like the convenience, that's why they're using our downstairs because they like having it in town. 00:22:46
And. 00:22:51
I'm I'm honestly torn. I think it would be interesting to see the cost difference that possibly you said that you would have to 00:22:53
compare the numbers with. 00:22:56
Or did you say it would be even? 00:23:01
It's probably a little bit more expensive to do the punch pass option, but we could incorporate that into. 00:23:04
Into the fees that we charge already, so it wouldn't come at a. 00:23:11
An extra cost the. 00:23:15
Republic Services. Just, you know. 00:23:17
Spoiler alert. 00:23:19
On our consolidated fee schedule. 00:23:21
Republic Services has has increased their rate this year so. 00:23:24
We're we're proposing a slight increase in our in our trash collection. 00:23:28
And with that slight. 00:23:34
Increase we can incorporate the punch path option into into the fee so that people don't have to pay the extra. 00:23:35
It would otherwise be $24.00. 00:23:41
Is what the city gets billed for those two punches? 00:23:44
Another thing you'll probably need to review is. 00:23:48
If we do lock the dumpsters. 00:23:52
During the times where it's not spring and fall cleanup, what happens if people are dumping couches? Because that's one of the 00:23:55
issues that we're facing is how do we? 00:24:00
Kind of stop them from doing that. And so are there fees associated? Are there signs what kind of? 00:24:05
Ability to do we have to put someone over to observe that situation. Those are some other things that will come back into play in 00:24:11
this discussion. And, and if you would like some feedback, we've we've been discussing those issues as well and what we're 00:24:16
proposing right now. 00:24:21
Is to get all of our dumpsters into compliance with our own city code and have an enclosure for each of those. 00:24:26
And the ones that we want the public to be using will. 00:24:32
We'll keep them open. 00:24:35
And put signage on them that says please don't put. 00:24:36
Large trash. This is for. 00:24:40
Keeping our shorelines clean. You know, day picnic stuff file. 00:24:42
Means toss it in here. 00:24:46
But anything larger than that, please use your punch pass. 00:24:48
Any of our ones that are not intended to be for public use? Where? 00:24:51
You know, near our parts where it's simply a. 00:24:55
It's a dumpster so that our park staff can take empty all the trash cans and put those in the dumpsters. 00:24:57
We will lock the gates when they're not being used, we'll put signage on them and we'll have a camera near. 00:25:03
That says and we'll keep the lids closed. So if you're throwing a. 00:25:09
Couch over an enclosure that's locked onto the top of a dumpster that is closed. 00:25:14
You know that you did something wrong and when someone shows up to give you a ticket. 00:25:18
You know you got caught for the right reason. 00:25:23
And so we'll make it very clear that certain dumpsters are for public use and others are not. 00:25:25
OK, Any questions on this right now or would you like to well, it'll. 00:25:31
I just saw one thing. Did everybody get the Orem City newsletter just recently? 00:25:36
Yeah. Usually it comes with a coupon, right. You get like a postcard. So it had one and it does have, it has a yeah. 00:25:42
A coupon to go? I wonder if you could just instead of a punch bath? 00:25:48
Because needing to come to the city to get a punch pass a little inconvenient. 00:25:52
But if we did. 00:25:56
Like. 00:25:58
Newsletter Spring and fall that had that too. I thought that was a really good idea. 00:25:59
If yeah, if, if, if a physical mailing is taking place then we could that is another way to get them out. 00:26:03
I mean, we just need to make sure that they're an original copy because the city will get billed. 00:26:10
$12.00 each time the transfer station tracks that. 00:26:15
And then they just. 00:26:20
Send a bill to the city. 00:26:22
For each one that is used. So we wouldn't want to make it so that it was something that. 00:26:23
That could be replicated easily in everybody's dump. 00:26:29
You know 100 dumps. 00:26:31
For the year would get thrown into our Billings. 00:26:33
Well, if residents have any comments on this, you can mention it during public comment, but you could also just leave your or 00:26:37
e-mail us and connect with one of our staff members over here and submit your comment and we will incorporate that into what we 00:26:42
are working on and talking about. 00:26:47
Any other questions from the Council? 00:26:53
OK. Thank you so much, Eric. 00:26:56
We look forward to discussing this more. 00:26:58
We'll go back to 5.1. 00:27:00
With our Lieutenant. 00:27:04
I'm going to back this up just a little bit. 00:27:10
I talk too loud to be that close to you. 00:27:12
Good evening. So we put this on the work session tonight for a couple reasons. And we said golf carts and mobility devices because 00:27:16
it's really hard to quantify, you know? 00:27:21
Is it a selective scooter or like bike, moped, go pad, auto cycle, auto driven cycle? I mean there's a hundred different types of 00:27:26
devices out there so. 00:27:30
Mobility device, what we're talking about is. 00:27:34
Things that are like electric or gas powered things self-propelled via vehicles or devices. 00:27:36
Umm, couple things that brought this up. We've had some recent complaints about golf carts. 00:27:41
And even scooters and other things on our sidewalks and trails and roads. 00:27:46
I've had two incidents at the Sheriff's Office recently with golf carts. 00:27:51
We had one run through the fence of Grove Park. 00:27:55
Had another one over on the overpass where somebody's driving a golf cart on the sidewalk. 00:27:58
And a scooter was going the other direction and there was a collision. 00:28:02
We didn't really determine who was at fault because we had different stories on what happened. 00:28:06
We did have that incident. 00:28:10
We also had a video sent to me from one of you about. 00:28:12
Golf cart incident right here on Center St. 00:28:15
Where the golf cart was going eastbound on Center St. Got to the roundabout, didn't even look or yield, just entered right into 00:28:18
the roundabout right in front of a car. 00:28:21
Golf cart ended up going off the side up near the wall and there was a scooter going by at the same time. It was great. 00:28:24
Umm, we've also, I just got an e-mail from a resident who runs in the city about some some conflicts with him running and cars, 00:28:32
but also people using a scooter on the sidewalk or about electric bike cruising really fast on the sidewalk. That was a close 00:28:36
call. 00:28:40
So that's some of the stuff that's brought it up. 00:28:45
The other thing that is in speaking with Brian and Parks, they have some concerns about these devices within our parks, especially 00:28:47
during like soccer games. 00:28:52
Where the soccer game ends and people are driving their golf carts out onto the field or out onto the grass to pick up kids or 00:28:56
whatever. 00:28:59
And it's just kind of chaotic at that time. So we've got some safety concerns. 00:29:02
Also obviously concerned with tearing up the grass or ruining things that would cause them to have to do more maintenance. 00:29:06
So what I'd like to do tonight is just kind of get a feel of where you guys stand on what you'd like to see. 00:29:12
I'm going to go over some of the stuff we already have in place. 00:29:18
And what our current laws are and then whatever you guys recommend, I have some recommendations or some ideas that we could do. 00:29:21
But really, before we get really knee deep or get deep into drafting ordinances, just want to see what is something that you'd be 00:29:27
interested in. 00:29:30
Potentially passing or or at least looking at SO. 00:29:34
I think for me, we could definitely brush up on our main roads and thoroughfares. 00:29:37
I think it's. 00:29:42
Kind of bold to take your golf cart out on a place that's like people are going 4050 mph yeah, yeah. And we'll talk about that. So 00:29:43
right now. 00:29:47
If we're talking about golf carts, golf carts are not allowed on roads and vineyards by state code. State codes. 00:29:52
Says that golf carts cannot be operated on a road, however municipalities can allow them on. 00:29:58
On roads and then again, as long as they're specifying and taking precautions that it's safe. 00:30:03
And specifying when, who and where those can be operated on. 00:30:09
Currently as far as our sidewalks and trails go. 00:30:14
We don't have anything particularly banning a golf cart or any kind of electric device on our sidewalks or our trails right now. 00:30:17
What we have in place is there's no. 00:30:22
Off Hwy. vehicles on those on sidewalks or trails and that state code defines there's three different grades of. 00:30:26
Highway vehicles, but that's more like your 4 Wheelers and your side by sides and your motorcycles and three Wheelers would. 00:30:34
Whatever that would be. 00:30:40
Umm, within our parks, we don't really have anything that says you couldn't, couldn't drive those within the parks right now. 00:30:42
As far as on the grass or even on the sidewalk or trails. 00:30:48
Obviously our park rules, like a Grove park, say you can't have them in the splash pad, but that's not an actual ordinance. It's 00:30:51
just one of our park rules that's that's written on there. 00:30:55
So that's kind of where we stand right now as far as what we have. We do have speed limits in place on our trails of 15 miles an 00:31:00
hour. 00:31:04
Sidewalk doesn't really have that. We have something in place that says you have to be basically driving or doing things safely on 00:31:07
our sidewalks and trails. 00:31:11
As far as safe travel? 00:31:15
We do have hours of operation within our parks and that's pretty. 00:31:18
Common As for all of our parks. 00:31:22
And our code does say trails is included in that. 00:31:24
And we don't really go around enforcing people on a trail after 11:00 PM. Too much so, but. 00:31:27
So that's that's where we are currently. I want to talk a little bit about enforcement of it. 00:31:33
As you guys know, as far as the way we enforce things in the city, generally speaking, for example like parked cars and that could 00:31:37
be towed by law. 00:31:40
Generally, we're not going to just go and tow it as soon as we see it, we're going to. 00:31:44
Run the plate, try to contact the owner, kind of take a more conservative approach of being friendly and trying to get people to 00:31:48
comply before we take such drastic measures as toner vehicle. The same has been true with golf carts and things on our roads and 00:31:53
things like that. We aren't out issuing citations to people driving their golf carts on the streets or the sidewalks and things 00:31:57
like that. 00:32:02
Now if we're doing it's unsafe, we're going to go talk to him and hey, or they got. 00:32:07
Ten kids hanging off the side and it's unsafe. 00:32:12
That's something we're going to talk to him about, but we haven't been issuing citations for that. 00:32:14
Even though technically they can't be on the roads so. 00:32:17
Just to put that out there, how enforcement is going, we can be more, more, we can increase that enforcement, obviously, if that's 00:32:20
the desire of the Council. 00:32:24
Umm, or if we continue to see issues, we could do that as well. 00:32:27
So, umm. 00:32:31
What the preference is in speaking with Brian at parks, if we go over that first and what we'd like to see in the parks is 00:32:33
potentially we could look at no motorized. 00:32:37
Scooters, bikes, golf carts, et cetera within on the grass within the open space of the park. 00:32:41
We can allow continue to allow them to be on the trails. 00:32:46
We could put something in place like they're restricted to designated sidewalks or trails. 00:32:49
They can't be on the grass unless they're parked there and so many feet from a trailer or a sidewalk. We could do something like 00:32:53
that. 00:32:56
Herriman for example. They don't allow them in their open space. 00:33:01
They recently did a post basically showing a. 00:33:04
A bike trail that was worn into the grass and said they're not allowed in the open spaces. 00:33:07
You can't have them there and they have that in their ordinance. Ordinance. 00:33:12
And that's really, in speaking to Brian, the Parks, that's kind of what their desire would be. 00:33:16
Is to try to keep them out of those open spaces within our parks. 00:33:21
Is there a code that says, hey we don't want to hear, but we do want to hear because this community loves? 00:33:26
Yes, so we could specify areas that would it would be allowed. 00:33:32
The same thing goes for. 00:33:35
When we're talking about like others like the streets and stuff for golf carts, we are, we definitely have the ability to say. 00:33:37
Will allow golf carts on any road 25 miles an hour or slower. 00:33:43
At any trail 8 feet or wider, we could definitely do that. 00:33:48
I would. I don't think I'd recommend allowing them on golf course on sidewalks. Sidewalks 5 feet wide, golf carts 4 feet wide 00:33:52
doesn't leave enough room for. 00:33:56
People that took pass safely, we want to be able to have that still still exist on our sidewalks, but we definitely have the 00:34:00
ability that we could restrict it down to that and say. 00:34:04
OK. You can have those in this area, in these parks and we could we could specify that. 00:34:09
For example. 00:34:13
If you I've been searching a lot of other cities on golf carts and. 00:34:15
And all these things. 00:34:18
Very few have ordinances on golf carts right now. Saint George just did pass. 00:34:19
In May where they do allow golf carts on certain streets. 00:34:25
During daylight hours you have to be 16 years of old of age or older to operate the golf cart and then they actually in their 00:34:29
code. 00:34:33
List out the streets that they're allowed on. 00:34:36
Certain neighborhoods and certain areas that they're allowed so. 00:34:39
We could do that. 00:34:42
And we have the ability to say what age we want them to be. 00:34:45
If we wanted to say 16 or. 00:34:49
You know, some areas in other states say you have to be. 00:34:51
You have to have an active driver's license if you're to be 16, but if you're 18 or older, you just have to have an ID to be able 00:34:55
to operate a golf cart. So on a on a city street. 00:34:59
Umm, the other thing we could do that was brought up potentially is if we wanted to require some kind of a course. 00:35:04
That this we could provide. I mean, I could come up with some curriculum and. 00:35:11
Kind of like the state is done with the new OHV course that they make you go through the hard drive a four Wheeler side by side or 00:35:14
things like that. 00:35:17
That's something we could do to increase safety. 00:35:21
Let's see what else I had on here. 00:35:24
Eagle Mountain is another one. I look at them, they don't allow motor vehicles on it within their parks as well and. 00:35:27
Their definition of that includes. 00:35:33
Tote gills, motorcycles, motorbikes, anything like that within their parks, they don't allow that. 00:35:36
And then there was Saint George and Harriman, and there's a few others, but those were the main ones that had pretty clear 00:35:41
definitions. 00:35:44
The only other code that I found that might be relevant to Vineyard is there's several cities that have one that's called low 00:35:48
profile vehicles. 00:35:51
And that's things that are really short, like your. 00:35:54
Mini bikes and your things like that, we're like little, tiny little Jeeps you can buy. They're less than so many in so many 00:35:57
inches off the ground. 00:36:01
They have codes for those that we can look at adopting so. 00:36:05
What questions do you have? What do you what do you guys think would be appropriate? What do you think that the residents would be 00:36:08
on board with that we can at least look at start? 00:36:11
Down a path of drafting an ordinance. I I specifically think umm. 00:36:15
In regards to bed. 00:36:21
The electric vehicles on the grass. 00:36:23
I think that's a really good rule, except. 00:36:26
I think a lot of people have expensive vehicles that they don't want to leave, you know, 50 feet away from them while they're 00:36:29
watching their soccer game. 00:36:33
Like umm. 00:36:37
I think there's a concern of that some of these electric bikes are really nice. 00:36:38
And people aren't going to feel comfortable setting them off to the side. 00:36:43
And they're in the middle of the field. Do you have any thoughts towards that? 00:36:47
So we could designate a parking area and put in racks if we wanted to, but obviously they would come. There would be an expense to 00:36:50
that. 00:36:53
But we could look at and and Brian actually did bring up is there could we do, hey, there's our designated parking area. The only 00:36:57
concern we brought up with that is if we said, OK, the designated parking area is over by the tennis course, for example. 00:37:02
Well, how many people are actually going to utilize that if they want to be over? 00:37:08
A soccer game on the Far East side of the grass field. 00:37:11
I don't know how that would work, but we could definitely look at parking areas, designated ones, and restrict those vehicles to 00:37:14
be there. 00:37:17
Interesting. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. 00:37:22
I like looking at the busy roads. 00:37:25
I like the idea of finding where we don't want it, where we do want it. I thought those opportunities with Saint George and 00:37:27
Harriman open space was good. 00:37:31
I'd be interested to find out what happens if we lowered the age. Are there suddenly different liabilities that are put on us for 00:37:37
lowering in age for drivers or do we just not talk about it? Liability is a JV question. 00:37:42
So this is where it gets a little bit complicated because. 00:37:50
We're talking about a lot of different vehicle types. 00:37:55
You you now see electric skateboards that have a handheld control and can go at a pretty high speed but. 00:37:58
And interaction with that kind of vehicle is really different than an interaction with the golf cart that weighs a lot more. 00:38:07
Takes up a lot more space and so. 00:38:13
One thing you could do is tailor your rules. 00:38:16
On the the vehicle type. 00:38:19
I think when you're talking about the parks, you're. 00:38:21
Concerned about? 00:38:25
Busy times when interaction with an electric vehicle and people walking. 00:38:26
Can be difficult. 00:38:31
And then the other thing you're dealing with is just damage to city property, but it's difficult to maintain if you have. 00:38:32
If the field flat and somebody's taking. 00:38:39
Golf cart across that's going to damage the grass. 00:38:43
So specifically with golf carts. 00:38:46
With if we were to say. 00:38:51
I'm just throwing out a number, I'm not suggesting it. You're saying like oh 12 enough is fine on a golf cart. Does that make us 00:38:53
liable when a 12 year old is? 00:38:58
Going on a golf cart, Before you answer my question, just to clarify, I think people are going to let their young children drive 00:39:02
golf carts and they I don't. 00:39:08
I think enforcing this would be really hard. 00:39:13
That's great. So liability in Utah is? 00:39:15
Varied In some states, liability is if you're more than 50% responsible, you're fully responsible. 00:39:20
In Utah, liability can be shared among a number of different entities. 00:39:27
And cities can have liability. 00:39:31
The city's liability is reduced a little bit by the Governmental Immunity Act. There's procedures and then there's a per incident 00:39:34
and a per individual cap. 00:39:39
On damages. 00:39:45
So, uh. 00:39:46
You would certainly want to consult with your insurance provider to get their input on this because it will have an effect on 00:39:47
premiums. 00:39:51
If you do it. 00:39:56
As it relates to driving age and the type of vehicle and where those vehicles are allowed to drive. 00:39:57
I think we need to look at that carefully. 00:40:03
You know, before you make those decisions, it may be that you say. 00:40:06
It's safe for. 00:40:10
Younger than 16, teenage driver to operate a golf cart on trails and sidewalks of a certain size, but not on roads where they're 00:40:13
going to mix with. 00:40:18
Vehicular traffic and those kinds of things. 00:40:24
And then I guess the other thing I would strongly urge is when you make these decisions, you do want to look to. 00:40:27
Established design standards. 00:40:34
For these kinds of vehicles, there are a couple of different places that you can go to where those. 00:40:37
Standards would be acceptable, but the way I think of it on my mind is. 00:40:43
It's OK to be on the cutting edge. We don't want to be on the bleeding edge. 00:40:47
And so we'd like to follow what somebody elses. 00:40:50
Or what a more national organization has blessed in terms of design and what kind of vehicles can safely operate there. 00:40:55
Before we say that's OK within the city. 00:41:01
But I think you can get to a place where. 00:41:05
If you want to allow. 00:41:08
People younger than 16 to operate certain types of vehicles. 00:41:11
On where they're not mixed with automobile traffic. 00:41:17
That you probably can do it safely as long as you make sure the facilities are on or within established design standards. 00:41:21
So as far as enforcement goes, since we can't do it anyway, what if we just picked up enforcement on our main roads and then put 00:41:28
signs on our park and updated our park policy? I mean, the real reason why I see this being effective is that we wanted to allow 00:41:33
for it. 00:41:37
In the downtown, I see this being something where they want to maximize this type of usage and they want to make all vehicles 00:41:43
accessible. So they need to build their codes to a certain size. And this is where we suddenly have the ability to have leverage 00:41:48
and say if you're going to do this, you have to put in this easement and things like that. And I could see that being meaningful. 00:41:53
But otherwise, wouldn't we just update our policy and enforce some core routes? We could definitely increase enforcement when we 00:41:59
see them on our on our bigger. 00:42:04
Business roads, especially roads 30 miles an hour faster. 00:42:09
The state code basically says the municipality shall provide sufficient parameters regarding the operation of a golfer or. 00:42:13
On A to ensure public safety. 00:42:20
That's the way the state code reads that we have to ensure you know sufficient parameters to do that. 00:42:23
I will tell you the two incidents that I talked about, the fence and then the scooter and the golf cart. 00:42:28
One driver was 15, one was 14. 00:42:32
Not that that's indicative of, you know, widespread, but those two incidents, that's how old my 10 year old favor 8 year old 00:42:35
neighbors. But I think to be to be transparent, I think Parks is really interested in as far as timeline goes. 00:42:42
Trying to get something done quicker as far as keeping enough the open space areas. So I think that may be a. 00:42:50
Higher priority and. 00:42:55
As far as what their their desire to do. 00:42:57
If we want to take a little more time, as far as the rest of you know, on the streets or sidewalks or trail. 00:42:59
We could definitely spend some time designating certain areas where we would want them. 00:43:04
And kind of come back with, hey, this is what we think would be acceptable. 00:43:08
OK. I feel like if you need to do something quick, I even feel like we could just update our policy for certain areas. Could we 00:43:11
make a clarification and hear me out, Brian? 00:43:16
I care about your grass. 00:43:22
What if people were to Could we allow people to walk? 00:43:24
Their bikes, their walk, their scooters on the grass and I would say a hard festival of no golf carts on the grass, but. 00:43:27
I just worry that. 00:43:34
I want families to be able to. 00:43:36
You know, feel like they're having their. 00:43:38
Property and being able to keep it. Feel like you know somebody that owns an electric scooter. 00:43:41
I may or may not have driven my electricity. 00:43:48
Yeah. No, I think that's a great point to. 00:43:52
To bring up, there's a number of. 00:43:55
Residents that have been coaching for us for. 00:43:57
Years that I know have some of those vehicles that are using them. 00:44:00
There's just been a number of residents that have expressed concern. 00:44:05
And seeing near accidents. 00:44:09
Umm, so I do think I don't know what the solution is to that, so I want to think about that a little bit more. 00:44:12
Of umm. 00:44:19
I think I. 00:44:21
Go ahead. I think walking a vehicle, just like an elementary school, you're allowed to bring your bike to the you ride your bike 00:44:22
to the property, and then you walk your bike in the rest of the way. 00:44:27
And I feel like walking an item is safer. I don't know if that will solve the grass issue. 00:44:31
You know, and so, but I. 00:44:38
I think I think it's safe to walk something. My recommendation might be that you go back and work on some quick policy for 00:44:40
internal things like that. And if we need to watch things for accidents, we just do it on our main roads. 00:44:46
But I think long term we could start working on something because we're going to need this, I think, for our larger structure for 00:44:52
the whole city. So this is an important conversation long term. 00:44:57
Do you feel like that? 00:45:02
Yeah, good way to move forward right now, because that way you could move faster if you needed something faster that you could 00:45:03
bring back to us quickly. 00:45:06
I mean, each council member can send their concerns or their experience. 00:45:10
With these vehicles. 00:45:14
I'm pro golf cart and they're designed to be driven on grass, so they don't really do damage on grass. That's why they're designed 00:45:17
that way, right? 00:45:21
But the damage is. 00:45:25
Obviously it's a concern with certain types of vehicles, right? And some golf carts. 00:45:28
I think what kind of tires they put on them and if they soup them up a little bit. Some of the golf carts you see are not the golf 00:45:33
carts you drive on your golf course. They're a little bit different, but the other one is more of the safety too, I think. 00:45:39
I actually was at the National League of Cities and they were talking about how children's brains develop at an earlier age, the 00:45:47
sooner you can get them driving. 00:45:51
And how cities should promote early driving 910 and 11 years old because it helps them kind of figure it out. I thought that was 00:45:56
pretty crazy because. 00:46:01
I learned how to drive a tractor at 11 years old with a Baylor in the back without. 00:46:06
Lights on by moonlight, so but. 00:46:10
I think we want to be pro, but I think one adjustment where you could police that is if there are accidents, you're giving a 00:46:14
ticket and you've helped, I think. 00:46:19
That's hard of like give give a citation, not give a citation. But I think if it's a clear delineated of like what it is, hey, we 00:46:23
are going to be pro but parents if there is an accident. 00:46:28
There will be a citation that goes out, so teach your kids to. 00:46:33
Any better and then #2? 00:46:37
100% agree with getting golf carts off of the sidewalks like. 00:46:39
That's where I think your problem is, is it? 00:46:44
Two people going separate ways and it's like. 00:46:47
This one you need to be in the road. 00:46:50
It's a slower Rd. but you're still on the sidewalk type thing so if there's. 00:46:52
Delineation on a map that you say like hey, do not be on the sidewalk here. 00:46:56
Because it is such a slow street, right? 00:47:02
And then lastly I met with. 00:47:05
Strong Towns? What's his name? My buddy last night about Strong Towns. 00:47:08
And it's actually there's a couple of videos about how. 00:47:12
People won't agree, but the golf carts actually slow down traffic. 00:47:16
Because people will see it and they'll get our cars to drive even though they only go 2025 miles an hour. That's kind of what we 00:47:20
want them driving anyway. 00:47:23
In terms of where it's going and so. 00:47:27
There's study after study that it. 00:47:30
If they're not there and you know you have the visualization. 00:47:32
And it's wide open. They're just gonna drive like crazy, so. 00:47:36
Those are my feedback of adjustments. Can I just add, I assume Jordan? Yeah, Jordan, this is also a good opportunity, Jordans on 00:47:40
the bike Commission to collaborate with the bike Commission. They're looking for opportunities to add more facilities for bike 00:47:45
parking and things like that. 00:47:50
So they might be able to give you some good insight. Can we have them lead it? Because he's great. 00:47:55
Sure. 00:48:00
So as far as enforcement goes, just everyone's that you understand. 00:48:04
The only thing I can issue a citation for right now is if they're on the streets, right? That's the only as far as a golf cart 00:48:07
goes, not sidewalks, not a sidewalk 'cause we don't have an ordinance against that in the state. You can't wait till they. 00:48:13
Break a rule and get onto the road. Be like hey. 00:48:19
I could. If it's not written, it doesn't exist, OK? 00:48:23
Hopefully the written rules. So yeah, the state law is no roads. I think we could write a pro golf course absolutely kind of thing 00:48:27
where we keep them off those main roads and we keep them off sidewalks, but we allow them to be on paths and. 00:48:33
I like that idea for a long term approach and my thought in speaking about it, I can get with the same as far as like that, like 00:48:39
you're talking about building standards where they're allowed whether or not and work with him on that as well. So. 00:48:45
But I also think if we drafted something that's code of like when you do see it and it is a minor that we have some sort of 00:48:51
paperwork of like. 00:48:55
Hey, you're. 00:49:00
A parent would love to know that my kid is doing such because a lot of times we'll get some things of like this bad behavior that. 00:49:01
A visit by you is very helpful for parents when we encounter juveniles. Yeah, it's very helpful. We always speak well as long as 00:49:09
we can get ahold of parents, we always right and and just advising people to contact you with take pictures, videos or whatever 00:49:13
to. 00:49:18
Solve it. 00:49:23
I do. I think it's smart if they're going to be under 16 that we have some kind of city certification. 00:49:24
Because we have that in UI. I think it was 14. They decided it was farmland. 00:49:29
Right. And everybody wrote their four Wheelers everywhere, but this is. 00:49:33
This is more congested. 00:49:36
And I feel like if you want to give that right to somebody under 16, they should go through the city certification. 00:49:38
And we can decide what that age is, if we want it to be 12 or. 00:49:44
14 right, I think. 00:49:48
We can just do what the need is and reach out to the community, but I think that's. 00:49:50
I think that's really important because I think when the younger they are. 00:49:54
Right. Maybe the more reckless. 00:49:58
Plan B, right. And if they go through the certification, then they understand. 00:50:00
Right. The risks involved in their parents sign off that they get that certification. I think that would be really valuable. And 00:50:04
Brian, is it the entire grass field that you're worried about or? 00:50:09
Could they bring him onto the perimeter around the? 00:50:15
The sidewalk. 00:50:18
Yeah. So one thing that we talked about Holden and I was. 00:50:19
We just have something in place to where. 00:50:23
They can just park it within, you know, 5 to 10 feet of the trail. 00:50:25
And then they can just walk the rest of the way. 00:50:30
Because one thing I didn't mention too is it's also kind of a space thing. 00:50:33
We have about 25 feet between fields and you've got parents on both sides. 00:50:37
And so there's really not a whole lot of room for a golf cart or. 00:50:42
Or bikes and things without obstructing. 00:50:46
I guess. 00:50:49
For people to walk, they have to go around and then they're. 00:50:50
******* into people. 00:50:53
But they could park near the games. It's not. 00:50:55
Far into the field yeah. And I I'm just a little worried that if we. 00:50:58
Allow people to even just walk. 00:51:03
These vehicles on. 00:51:06
It'll be a little bit hard to enforce because. 00:51:07
There's other incidents where say for example movie at a park and there's. 00:51:10
Dirt bikes that are driving through the field. 00:51:14
Right during the middle of the movie. 00:51:18
Umm, and or there's just, you know. 00:51:20
Golf carts that are just zooming and there's games going. Kids are running around. 00:51:24
It just I see a lot of room for potential accidents. 00:51:29
Umm, but I do want to be open to. 00:51:34
Solutions to that so. 00:51:37
I'd be happy to also reach out to a resident that I know has a golf cart to kind of get. 00:51:39
Their thoughts on maybe what a happy medium would be. 00:51:45
And see if we can figure out a solution that. 00:51:48
Let's move forward with that. You go ahead and work on that policy and bring it back in a week and how long your term discussion 00:51:50
council, if you have additional thoughts on this, please make sure you're emailing Eric and copying these guys in. So thank you. 00:51:54
This is really helpful. 00:51:58
OK. All right. We'll move on to our agenda management and our city recorder. Pam will discuss. 00:52:03
This item. 00:52:10
This item is part of my life. 00:52:17
Oh yeah, I'd love to discuss it with everybody first. I just, I just. 00:52:20
Umm, I went through and I. 00:52:26
Figured out how I put together an agenda and so I did this. 00:52:29
This whole paper I split everything up. 00:52:33
On it in our timeline and everything that we do. 00:52:36
But I thought I'd give another little bit more background on this is that state code requires us. 00:52:40
In our open public meetings at. 00:52:46
Have an agenda, and that agenda should be have. I cannot say this word reasonable specificity. 00:52:48
To notify them. But what is on the agenda so that people understand what's on the agenda? 00:52:55
Itself the agenda. 00:53:01
Has to have the date, time, place. 00:53:05
They were holding it and then. 00:53:07
Just a synopsis kind of of what? 00:53:09
Is going to be discussed. 00:53:13
On the agenda, can't talk about anything. 00:53:15
That's not on the agenda unless there's emergency. 00:53:18
Those types of things. But we're not going to go into all that because it's Jamie's job to teach open public meetings and because 00:53:21
I assigned it to him. 00:53:25
Not today, though. 00:53:30
But anyway. 00:53:32
There's noticing requirements that go with agendas. 00:53:34
And so. 00:53:38
In the state code with no less than 24 hours to post an agenda unless it's an emergency and there's only. 00:53:40
Certain things that might be considered an emergency, but. 00:53:46
The. 00:53:49
So that that no less than 24 hours public notice is kind of what we we hit. 00:53:54
And I can be honest with you, and I know you're pushing for a. 00:53:59
Publishing them earlier. 00:54:04
But that 24 hours is a little stressful in our department. 00:54:08
And so I have always pushed. I would love to do the day before. 00:54:12
We tried Friday before. 00:54:17
Those types of things. But it was, it's always something comes up, there's an issue and we're always amending things. 00:54:19
And I reached out to some other cities. 00:54:26
So I'm not going to go through everything I wrote up but. 00:54:29
We can reach out to you on some other things, but I reached out some other cities to find out when they're doing them. 00:54:32
Cedar Hills is the Friday before Tuesday meeting, Drapers Thursday before the Tuesday meeting. Eagle Mountain was Friday before 00:54:36
Tuesday meeting. So you can see they're kind of all over the place and then. 00:54:41
The fun one was was Orem and then she said they do it. 00:54:47
Like just a couple days before the meeting, but. 00:54:53
I can't remember when anything's. I don't know why I didn't put them in here. 00:54:56
Anyway, but then I looked at their website and their postings are all over the place. 00:54:59
So we're at least consistent, right? 00:55:04
On that. 00:55:07
Some of the concerns that they had with posting too early, they agreed that seven days was way too was too soon. 00:55:09
And they said some of the concerns that they had with it was that. 00:55:16
You posted 7 days and then things come up. 00:55:20
That then you're amending your agenda and he said. It just doesn't look good and it confuses people. 00:55:24
As to what's on the agenda, if you mend it once and then you meant it three times so. 00:55:30
Something like that. I would say we mind at once and that's it. You know, maybe that's within that 24 hours if we need to amend it 00:55:35
or something. 00:55:38
Regardless of when you guys decide you want us to try to post these agendas. 00:55:42
Some of the things that I want to bring up though is to why I wouldn't recommend the full 7 days. 00:55:47
Is this like, for instance, when we have a public hearing where it needs to go to Planning Commission first? 00:55:54
Then it goes to council the next week. 00:55:59
For consideration, would you have one of those on the agenda tonight? 00:56:02
Well, they don't have time to get that report ready before they have the Planning Commission meeting. 00:56:06
So having the report ready, they need to have time to if Planning Commission has any additional recommendations to get those 00:56:11
reports updated. 00:56:15
And into the agenda. 00:56:18
Packet so that you guys have all the information that you need. Those packets are for the councils. 00:56:21
Use therefore the Council so they can. 00:56:27
See what's being changed? 00:56:30
There's certain things you can't approve without a resolution of ordinance in front of you and the. 00:56:32
Supporting documents that go with it and to have some of those to rush them to get those done. 00:56:37
Umm, you know, it could be a little frustrating for those trying to do it. We also have posting deadlines for those public 00:56:43
hearings that I was talking about. 00:56:47
Like budget is 7 days out. 00:56:52
So I'll be posting public hearing the same day of posting the agenda for it. 00:56:54
Land use is 10 days and then is 10 days. 00:56:58
But there are other ones that there's other ones that are different days and so it's. 00:57:03
Kind of crazy how we can. 00:57:08
How we would work things out so we may know some things ahead of time, but we might not. 00:57:10
Before those seven days. So those are some other things that. 00:57:15
There's just a few of the things I wanted to bring up on that. 00:57:20
The other question was. 00:57:23
Having if we could have the fiscal impact on. 00:57:25
Consent. 00:57:29
We've talked about it, we said. 00:57:32
Well, it's not impossible. We'd have to go figure out what that is. But there are issues with having it there when we can have it 00:57:35
in the staff report where they can spell it out. It's already in the staff report. 00:57:40
You can look at the staff report if you're not finding it. 00:57:45
Please make sure you're reading the reports. 00:57:49
Because that's where it really should be. 00:57:51
The other, the other concern on it is that some of those fiscal impacts are. 00:57:54
Complex. And so there's there's going to be several numbers in there. 00:57:59
And they're not going to be totals that necessarily that you could put. 00:58:03
An agenda, because they might be if this happens then this, and if this happens then this. 00:58:08
Would be the impact and so putting that as a. 00:58:13
On our on the headline in the. 00:58:16
The consent might be a little. 00:58:19
Wordy when we've already gotten the staff report. So that's just the recommendation. What if you just put the word fiscal impact 00:58:21
so people knew? 00:58:25
It like this has a fiscal impact because not to make sure everything has a fiscal impact. 00:58:29
Well, if that's what you guys want. 00:58:34
Would you like it like? 00:58:38
Like right in the title. 00:58:39
So that people are going to look for it. Sir, what's your thought on it? 00:58:41
On the last agenda there were there were consent items and there were just there was just a simple fiscal impact. 00:58:46
Amount and that was really helpful. But if it's more involved. 00:58:51
Then maybe just put, you know? 00:58:55
That it's more involved in the other. 00:58:57
Other documents to get information that would be helpful. I think you're OK if it's just in the staff report, right? You don't. 00:59:00
But just to let you know that there's a fiscal impact. 00:59:07
On the consent item or do you want it? I mean, would that make sense? 00:59:10
I guess because the consolidated fee schedule and budget. 00:59:15
Might be the only other ones. 00:59:19
Any budget items you know business item would. 00:59:21
State that it's for a budget so you would know to look for this document explains it so if it was just put in their fiscal impact 00:59:23
for like contracts and good awards and. 00:59:28
And different things like that for the fiscal impact for? 00:59:34
Because you also for your agenda, talk about how you guys operate your executive meetings and vet these things in those days. 00:59:38
You're talking about a staff meeting that we have, OK. 00:59:47
So what happens with the agenda? I can just go in a little bit detail there. So people submit items with our new agenda management 00:59:51
software it has. 00:59:56
Saved me many and Tony, now Tony, many hours of work of changing and moving things around. So that's great to throw that out 01:00:00
there. 01:00:04
Plug for that but. 01:00:08
So staff are asked to put in their agenda items, then that goes through. 01:00:10
A verbal approval process right now. 01:00:16
With the city manager and the mayor. 01:00:18
And then they they put in their staff report and they put in any attachments they might have. But we do discuss it. 01:00:23
The day before Council meeting, which we could probably change that. 01:00:30
If you guys at some point time decide. 01:00:33
That you want to put some kind of a policy in as to when we do things. 01:00:36
But umm. 01:00:40
We discussed those agenda items, what's going to happen with those agenda items so the staff understands. 01:00:42
What's going on with them? 01:00:48
And so we do discuss them during our staff meeting before council meeting this Tuesday before the council meeting. 01:00:50
So that, umm, yeah, no item goes on an agenda without an approval. Well, and the reason why I ask you to mention it is because. 01:00:58
Oftentimes some of the amendments that come are because you're reviewing it, you're getting ready to post it, and then people find 01:01:06
out what is needed in order to complete the agenda item, which causes a change or an amendment. 01:01:12
And that is? 01:01:19
Because those meetings are so close to each other, that's back. That's what's been a little bit complicated. We could probably do 01:01:20
them. 01:01:24
You know the Tuesday before. 01:01:28
That, but still, there's always things that come up that. 01:01:31
Say, hey, we've got a deadline. 01:01:35
And so let me go on this agenda. 01:01:37
So you're gonna have things that come up. 01:01:39
The day before the council meeting. 01:01:42
And says, hey, this has got to go on the agenda. We've had that several times. 01:01:45
So I mean, this is just the way it runs, it works. I think the point is, is that if that happens, though, we're happy with having 01:01:49
it wait for the 8 days or 15 days so that the citizens have a right to be there. But sometimes we have deadlines we have to meet. 01:01:57
And so we can't wait those that extra time. If it's a state deadline or a county deadline and they've just sent it to us, then 01:02:05
we're going to need to put it on that agenda. 01:02:10
In order to. 01:02:16
Meet that deadline so we're not losing out on a contract or funding or. 01:02:18
Or different things like that. 01:02:22
That just. 01:02:24
Sometimes they're a little slower, giving things to us. 01:02:25
Sometimes we have developers. I mean, we don't have some of that now on our agenda. 01:02:29
But we would have developers that need to get your red lines back to us, get your. 01:02:33
It's the correct way. Two weeks. 01:02:37
Sometimes it costs them money if they wait. 01:02:40
And so that is, that's another issue, but they would learn our process, right? 01:02:43
I mean they go at our speed, not we go to them. 01:02:47
No, but like I said, there are some things that there aren't going to wait. The state's not going to wait. The county's not going 01:02:50
to wait. Yeah, and we don't have as many developers. 01:02:54
Stuff anymore because I go through the DRC committee Planning Commission, yeah, yeah, the report state there's they cannot wait 01:02:59
those extra two weeks you're going to cost the developer money. 01:03:05
And that's not going to be good if we have to wait. 01:03:11
Yeah, yeah, there's some codes we have to follow. 01:03:17
Yes. 01:03:23
OK, So what would your recommendation be Pam if not 7 days? 01:03:24
If we can make it work, you know, I send you guys out of the draft on Fridays. 01:03:30
So I don't know how I would send you out a draft if we posted them on Fridays. 01:03:35
But that would be up to you guys. 01:03:41
But posting on Mondays. 01:03:44
Would be helpful as well. I mean that's 48 hours before the meeting they were born. 01:03:46
So. 01:03:52
If we did the Thursday, that Thursday would be a crunch for depending on what's on the agenda, but. 01:03:54
I mean, it is up to you guys. 01:04:01
Council wants it sooner, I think where you feel like it's reasonable, that's reasonable to me. We obviously do work sessions for 01:04:04
things so that the public can see it two weeks before and then we bring it back and we work that process in this year, which I 01:04:09
feel like is working really well. 01:04:15
If we feel as a council we need to continue something, we can always continue it so we have protocols for making sure that there's 01:04:21
enough public discussion. 01:04:25
But if there's a reasonable timeline, you feel like you want a bit sooner and you wanted to post on Mondays and you wanted to not 01:04:30
do it 24 hours in advance, and you think Thursdays. 01:04:35
Today I think. 01:04:39
Whatever you think is meaningful because I know agendas are hard and they take time and there's a lot of people that work on them 01:04:41
and being someone that has to go through it and see my process and make sure I'm meeting the council's process and then going 01:04:47
through and making sure we're making the legal process. And then your process is a. 01:04:53
It's quite a task actually. 01:05:00
And so if you feel like there's opportunity. 01:05:02
I would love you to tell us and if you feel like there's not, I would love to watch the I I, I think I mean right now and maybe we 01:05:06
we work it in slower, but if we made it so that they're posted on Mondays. 01:05:13
And then we reevaluate it. 01:05:19
To see what Friday would look like for the Wednesday before, I wouldn't go any further than that. 01:05:22
Your biggest issue is. 01:05:28
Just if we were needing to amend anything in the meantime, I think is what you're going to be. You've got. 01:05:32
Holidays and stuff. So maybe we need to post a little earlier or it might. 01:05:37
Then I'll go a day later or something around holidays. 01:05:41
Different things like that, but those are some things we can work around. 01:05:44
OK, Yeah. So just whatever you guys decide you want to do. 01:05:48
If you have any comments, no, it makes sense. It makes sense to me. 01:05:53
To not do it too far ahead, I think that would be equally frustrating if you did it seven days ahead and then there were 3 or 4 01:05:58
amendments. 01:06:01
Right, I think that would be more frustrating. 01:06:05
And having to wait. 01:06:08
If you could do it Monday, I love the draft on Friday. 01:06:10
If it's not too stressful, I think Monday would be. 01:06:14
Great. 01:06:17
And just for, for me, Sarah, if she was gonna do it Monday, I would need it Thursday. 01:06:20
In order to get all of my things met, yeah, we could talk on Thursdays rather than Fridays. 01:06:26
And then send send out a draft Friday. 01:06:32
Friday I have to do my review again and then we could do it Monday. 01:06:35
But half the people aren't working on Monday and then Friday. 01:06:40
And they only work until 12. 01:06:44
But anytime we could do, it's going to. 01:06:46
But sometimes we take Monday to fix any issues and to have any legal discussions. 01:06:48
So we'd have to sift it back. I mean, I would love to post even by noon on Mondays if it's at all possible. That would be your 01:06:53
ideal. 01:06:58
I can give you an example, and I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus or anything, but this just happened. 01:07:02
Yesterday we're posting the agenda. 01:07:07
I look up putting it on the bulletin board, and I discover that there's a public hearing notice I didn't know about. 01:07:10
And so I'm hurrying and justice throwing it on. 01:07:16
And they were continuing it anyway. 01:07:19
But I didn't know about it because I've been on vacation. I was probably not allowed to go on vacation again, so. 01:07:22
There you go, now you know. But anyway, so it's just an example of issues of posting. 01:07:28
That so late in the day on a Tuesday. 01:07:36
That's been my stress through. 01:07:39
11 years, well and that is stressful and anyway we can make that stress go out Monday, we would just have to work together. 01:07:41
I guess Sarah or anybody just because I interrupted your comment. Sarah, my thing would be. 01:07:49
I think we should shoot for that. 01:07:54
And then do our best to kind of start building a process to it. And then before formalizing anything, just to learn how it works. 01:07:56
Yeah. And start doing that with the. 01:08:01
With the next one and we'll add the fiscal impact on anything that's on consent. 01:08:06
Or if maybe it's not clear on a business item? 01:08:11
That's one thing that would be helpful because I know that we're going to have last minute. 01:08:15
Umm, change amendments and there's gonna be circumstances that are unavoidable, and I know that'll put us down to that 24 hour 01:08:20
mark. 01:08:23
And even different with emergency things that qualify as an emergency, but I was wondering if we could just make a policy of a 01:08:27
standard that emergency last minute? 01:08:32
Items won't be consent that they will actually have to be something that's itemized for a business item then silver for discussion 01:08:36
and action. Yeah, and I think. 01:08:41
I think this is an interesting thing because at any point you see something on consent that you don't want on there, just pull it 01:08:46
off. Sometimes we just do administrative things on there because otherwise the agenda can become. 01:08:52
Complex and it becomes too much of things that. 01:08:59
This will be like a 2 second thing that we don't actually need on the business item. And so if you see something that looks 01:09:02
complex that we missed that should have gone on business. 01:09:06
My recommendation would just be to pull it off because administratively this is just to conduct proper timing on the agenda. 01:09:11
Yeah. And and the the other thing is, is that. 01:09:18
Almost. 01:09:22
Almost anything can go on consent, like the mayor said. 01:09:24
And you can pull it off and talk about it so. 01:09:28
That's something to just. 01:09:31
Think about because what we're doing and reason, we're putting them on consent. 01:09:33
Is so that you really only have to do 1 motion on things you don't. 01:09:36
Really, we feel that doesn't need discussion. 01:09:40
And so but if you. 01:09:44
See something in there like myself, then just you can pull it off of themselves. I don't think that's an issue at all. Maybe it's 01:09:46
more of a training issue because I think that as a new council member. 01:09:51
It was a little bit overwhelming. 01:09:57
To see the consent items and feel kind of this pressure, like, OK, everyone just voted for it. I better say aye. But. 01:09:59
If it's a last minute item. 01:10:06
And maybe as a new council member, they don't fully always recognize what their role is. If it wasn't on your draft agenda and 01:10:08
then it got added later as what you're thinking. 01:10:12
Before that. 01:10:19
That's more overwhelming for me because it involves huge discussions and I'm like, pull it off. 01:10:23
You know. 01:10:29
The attendant in general, but if it's a consent item, I'm like OK, this is meaningful and if I need to have a discussion I can. 01:10:31
But you're right, it's really hard when you have 24 hours and I I go over the agenda all weekend and then Tuesday night it gets 01:10:36
posted and. 01:10:40
And I'm with family Tuesday night and Wednesday, I'm at work all day and I'm like frantically trying to prepare for council and I 01:10:46
and I come prepared. I make sure of it, but it's. 01:10:51
It would be nice to shoot for that Monday and then to avoid putting last minute consent items on whenever possible. Yeah, and I 01:10:57
would say this too, well, maybe we can do for policy internally is to say if something was put on. I mean, the goal was always 01:11:03
that Eric is reaching out and saying, hey, we added these things. 01:11:08
But we could say, hey, these things were added if you need to pull them out. 01:11:14
Yeah. So, so back to Jake's point on some of that then. 01:11:18
Would you like it to say that it's it must have a type of a deadline with it that we're putting it on last minute? 01:11:23
Or just have a reasoning. I don't even feel like we know how to do that right now. I think we have to go back and try to figure 01:11:31
out the timing of the dates and figure out how to start even. 01:11:36
Moving things back for review. 01:11:41
But if there is anything, we can always pull it off. 01:11:44
And discuss it. And we can always come up with better policy to discuss it, you know. 01:11:47
Yeah. And and like you had mentioned earlier, we did bring back the work sessions so that the items but but this way the items. 01:11:53
These are these are the initial introduction to the items of the work session. 01:12:02
So a lot of times when they come back as a business item, there's a concerned item, you've already had at least one discussion on 01:12:05
it because I know with the. 01:12:10
Some of the code changes you had a couple different discussions and some individual discussions with the. 01:12:14
Some of the stuff that you guys have worked on. 01:12:19
For some code changes so. 01:12:22
I mean, if you don't feel like it's ready, then we put it back on as another work session as well, so. 01:12:24
That's just you guys giving direction to staff and letting us know that we're. 01:12:30
Yeah. We have so many opportunities as a council to pull it off, continue it, discuss it further. So I feel like it's manageable. 01:12:34
I'm sorry. 01:12:38
OK. 01:12:44
Thank you. I just, I just, I just want to say that it's not a hard and fast rule and it's just like, oh, we tried. 01:12:45
I mean, I'm thinking back of the angry. 01:12:53
Months of the fall and it's like, if it's just, oh, we're going to try, but then everyone has the power to just add it on and say 01:12:56
OOP, it's the last minute thing it. 01:13:01
There's not a hard and fast policy and I think that. 01:13:06
Like I just don't want, I don't feel like we have to have a culture of. 01:13:09
Oh, it has to be done. There's there's no way in waiting 7. 01:13:13
14 days. 01:13:16
To just get it right. 01:13:18
And I think it's not me and you read the umm. 01:13:20
Were the council reading the? 01:13:24
Approval or consent items. 01:13:27
It's the citizens reading and understanding. 01:13:30
I mean, we might have a conversation about. 01:13:34
You know anything that's controversial? 01:13:38
But if it's not understood clearly in the consent item and there's not a dollar amount. 01:13:40
Citizens, they'll never know and it'll look bad. 01:13:45
That's right. OK. That's something else that maybe we talk about a little bit. Is, is one of the staff report required? 01:13:47
Expected. 01:13:57
Maybe is a better way to say it. 01:13:58
Because we've we just kind of started using staff reports. 01:14:00
Probably in 20. It's been a while obviously, but they weren't using them. 01:14:05
When I first started. 01:14:09
Rather than we have a full staff report. I know Nathan Crane would do it because he. 01:14:10
Came from, you know, different areas. 01:14:15
Of the family where where we decided, but I think the other thing is. 01:14:20
If somebody sees something on consent, they do have the 24 hours, so if they see it. 01:14:25
And they have a question about it. They can tell their representative and their representative can pull it off. So, so I I feel 01:14:30
and this is. 01:14:34
Pam's opinion is that we have a staff report. 01:14:38
For everything except for all of the minutes, those are. 01:14:41
Self-explanatory I think. 01:14:45
So, umm. 01:14:48
But I just want kind of wanted your feedback on that as to. 01:14:49
I would like to see a staff reporter give them. 01:14:53
Tony and I more information about what is this agenda item and if now you're wanting us to include that it's got a fiscal impact 01:14:56
in that title. 01:15:00
We need to make sure that that's included. 01:15:04
Because if the person putting the agenda item on doesn't put that on, then we, we need to do a little deeper dive and make sure we 01:15:07
include it for you guys, for everybody in general, for. 01:15:12
For publishing and noticing the agenda, my recommendation would be that you take this back to staff meeting and that you guys kind 01:15:18
of go through this and review it and say how can we see these things? I know it as we start building the new agenda. I like that. 01:15:24
Yep. I want to give some feedback because you're saying staff report, do the staff members write an e-mail weekly or bi weekly to 01:15:31
Eric right now? 01:15:35
Um, I'm not sure exactly what he's doing. I know he's trying to send you guys out of. 01:15:40
Is it a weekly Tony? 01:15:46
Tony, I'll have a little more insight on that, SO. 01:15:48
Eric should be We are going to start playing together. Weekly reports from the department heads to Eric. 01:15:51
There are there are reports of the. 01:15:57
Department heads to Eric and then a summarization of. 01:15:59
The past weeks work that Eric has been doing. 01:16:03
To the Council. 01:16:06
Right. I would just give some feedback and that is such a high level report that it doesn't give anything. And if council members 01:16:08
or the mayor is getting one, wouldn't we give the opportunity to get that report as well? 01:16:14
I think we're talking about two different types of reports, right? I think the report that Eric's compiling to send you guys. 01:16:20
Is just an overall overview of what each department's doing. The staff reports that I'm talking about actually. 01:16:28
Go with the item that's on the agenda. 01:16:35
So I'm talking about just clarifying the item. 01:16:38
Like if the mayor is getting a staff report from the department heads. 01:16:41
Then Eric, I think it's going to all over council. 01:16:46
I'm not getting any of them. 01:16:49
So I only get Eric's synopsis, and that's about if they send it to Eric, Eric does a synopsis of it and then sends it. Can I be 01:16:52
copied on all staff reports? I'm gonna clarify it and then I'm gonna end this with her item and move on. But here's what she's 01:16:59
saying. Staff reports, the recommendations are attached to your agenda. Everybody gets them in the agenda. Additionally, there's a 01:17:07
report that goes out from Eric. That's the synopsis that you're copied in on. So you receive all. 01:17:14
The same as the whole council. We all received reports simultaneously. Thank you. Thank you. Right. And for point of 01:17:21
clarification, is there any, could we vote to get the direct report instead of the brief synopsis from the department heads? 01:17:28
Because we can get those, right? We can't make any vote tonight, but you do get the direct report in your packet. That's what 01:17:34
they're discussing. If they were running a different report, we'd have to. I'm talking about. 01:17:40
Department heads weekly report that they submit to Eric instead of getting the aggregate. 01:17:47
I would like the Council on this particular issue. 01:17:53
To by statute have that included. So if we don't want the high version of Eric that we get. 01:17:57
The very lengthy from the department has. So Jamie, I'll give you you can go ahead and talk in a minute. We would I think we would 01:18:04
have to ask Eric how he wanted to designate that time and if he wanted them to write reports, we would have to have that 01:18:10
discussion at a different time. No, we're not. We're not We're not talking about erics writing the report. Well, I understand. I 01:18:15
understand apartment heads that are already writing it. 01:18:21
Just to copy us on it so that if. 01:18:27
We read Eric's report. 01:18:29
And we say, hey, let's get into the details of it. We can also know because you're getting that right. 01:18:31
No, I'm not getting that. What I'm saying is we get the same reports. 01:18:37
In the pocket and in his synopsis, all of us get the same reports and that is all. But if you do want to have a future 01:18:42
conversation about it where we ask for additional reports, we could have that, but we can't tonight. 01:18:48
So we're not going to do that thing. 01:18:54
Please see next agenda item. 01:18:56
OK, this is a bit of A tag team presentation with Jenna Hearn. 01:19:00
The communications director so. 01:19:04
What we wanted to do is give you kind of a brief orientation as to the law. 01:19:07
As it relates to social media comments and social media posts made by the city. 01:19:12
And then Jenna will get into some of the details of the policy. 01:19:17
So there. 01:19:22
By way of background. 01:19:25
There are a number of different social media platforms. Each of them have their own. 01:19:26
Different rules for. 01:19:31
How you post? How you comment? 01:19:33
How you moderate comments? Whether you have to. On some platforms you have to block people outright. There's no option for. 01:19:36
Removing or moderating posts Others do allow a little bit more detail on how you. 01:19:44
Moderate and work through things. So there is a little bit of a difficulty applying the law to some of the specific platforms, but 01:19:50
I'll walk through. 01:19:54
In a nutshell, how that works. 01:19:59
There are two primary concerns when we look at social media. The 1st is any of the city. Any use by the city of social media or by 01:20:02
city officials? 01:20:07
Of social media when you are acting in your official capacity. 01:20:12
Are public, so comments are visible. Comments are accessible by search engines, and they're classified as public records under 01:20:17
state law if there were a request for that information. 01:20:22
The First Amendment also comes to bear Commenters on social media posts have First Amendment rights. 01:20:29
Which means the city can restrict certain types of comments, but. 01:20:36
You can only do them. 01:20:40
According to legitimate time, place and manner. 01:20:42
Restrictions. So things like offensive comments. 01:20:45
They may remain if they are legally protected speech. 01:20:49
These are the categories of things that are allowed. 01:20:54
By law to be removed so if you have a discriminatory. 01:20:57
Comment A comment about somebody's race, somebody's marital status, somebody's sexual orientation, their religion. 01:21:01
You can remove those types of comments. 01:21:09
Slander or defamation if you have a threatening, harassing or profane comment. A sexual comment. 01:21:12
And then as you go down through the list, there are a number of other things for which you can moderate. 01:21:18
Or remove a comment. 01:21:25
Essentially, hear what you're trying to do is keep people from harm. 01:21:27
Or keep it. But what you cannot do is remove a comment based on its content. What if you're? 01:21:32
If you have a position on something that is A and somebody comments and says I like be. 01:21:39
You can't remove those comments that say they prefer the other. 01:21:44
We I'll skip that one because we'll get into it a little bit, but that's. 01:21:50
That's the basic framework for comments by way of background. 01:21:55
The city used to allow comments on its social media posts. 01:21:59
With. 01:22:06
More and more social media use and more and more controversial issues. 01:22:07
There begin to be posts that were I thought. 01:22:11
Within the category of being threatening, harassing or profane. 01:22:16
And the city did not have in place a policy for dealing with those types of comments. And so your options were a little bit more 01:22:20
binary. It was either you allow comments or you disallow comments. But if you don't have a policy. 01:22:26
You can't remove them without. 01:22:33
Inviting a First Amendment lawsuit, and we've seen in just this last Supreme Court calendar. 01:22:35
Two cases that related to. 01:22:41
Section 1983 claims against cities and public entities. 01:22:44
For social media use. So what we have now done is taken some time to go through and prepare a policy. 01:22:49
And Jenna and her office have done quite a bit of work to put that together. 01:22:56
The policy will allow for removal of comments. 01:23:00
Based on these criteria that are up on the board. 01:23:04
And then the other thing the policy allows. 01:23:07
That I think is really healthy and important is that. 01:23:10
If a comment is removed, hidden, muted, depending on what the platform is. 01:23:13
There would be an appeal process where the person who had their comment removed could come to the city and say I think you 01:23:18
interpret it. 01:23:21
Incorrectly and it should remain. 01:23:25
And then the communications director can remove that or can review. 01:23:29
That appeal and then. 01:23:33
Make a decision on it. 01:23:35
So I'm going to step aside and yield to Jenna to talk a little bit about how she'll her office will go about implementing this. 01:23:37
And then I'll be available as a resource if you have questions. 01:23:44
Yeah, thanks, Jamie. So. 01:23:48
Like we said in the past comments used to be allowed and. 01:23:51
And without that policy in place, it is hard to handle those situations that come about that are violations of. 01:23:55
Those non protected areas so. 01:24:02
And going forward with this policy with our new digital media specialists, we have that staff power to dedicate more time to 01:24:06
addressing these comments and we think it's. 01:24:11
A great option like social media is a great option for residents to be able to interact with staff, interact with the city, get 01:24:16
questions answered. 01:24:19
Be able to voice concerns, give feedback. 01:24:24
Of course we want it to be a. 01:24:27
A healthy interaction and like we can't control all the negativity out there and we recognize that. 01:24:30
There was there going to be angry posts, There's going to be some negativity that we see. 01:24:36
As such, based on. 01:24:41
Looking at other cities, other state departments. 01:24:44
They don't. 01:24:47
Respond to every single comment. So that's not something that we would plan to do. 01:24:52
Just as a city like we don't have the resources to. 01:24:56
Go in depth every single time anybody brings up anything. I mean, of course we're going to do our best to respond to valid 01:25:00
concerns and questions and feedback. 01:25:04
But yeah, we don't have the staff power to really. 01:25:09
Respond to every single question and we want to keep comments open so that people can interact with each other as well. 01:25:13
And as part of our policy, we're making it clear that this comment section is not meant to be a replacement for. 01:25:18
Emergency reporting or report a concern or. 01:25:24
Safety concerns. So we'll make it clear that there's appropriate channels to go through to report those concerns or get help for 01:25:28
that. 01:25:32
And that the social media is meant to be an interactive. 01:25:36
Place where people can, you know, interact with each other, interact with the city and get answers to their questions. 01:25:41
Right now, based on our estimates, about 20% of residents follow the social media channels, so. 01:25:47
We think it's going to be a really helpful thing that they can find answers to questions straight from the city. 01:25:54
And be able to interact with each other as well. 01:26:00
We'll be creating templates for certain common questions, like if people try to report concerns via comments. Templates that we 01:26:03
can respond to make that process a lot easier. 01:26:08
And less time intensive on staff. 01:26:13
And that we get that. 01:26:16
Kind of a cohesive. 01:26:18
Response going so that people get the same. 01:26:22
The same level of. 01:26:25
A response when they have those questions. 01:26:26
I just want to add in the reason why Jenna is saying this is there's a lot of frustration as we've been working on this policy. 01:26:31
About. 01:26:38
What it means to report a concern or to. 01:26:40
Their comments not being answered. 01:26:44
And there's a lot of feedback that the council and others give about how these questions aren't addressed. 01:26:46
And the issue is that there. 01:26:53
Is not enough. 01:26:55
Resources or people to actually follow and look through comments and find. 01:26:58
Out, out. 01:27:05
How to respond to those questions? That's by going through the podium channel or the report of concern. You can see that instant 01:27:06
feedback and sometimes that's really upsetting to residents when they're like, you haven't responded for three weeks. 01:27:12
And that's not the place to. 01:27:19
Make that. 01:27:22
Dialogue. Umm. 01:27:23
And that's our big reason why people want U.S. Open is so that they can report their concern or put something inside of there or 01:27:24
ask for help. 01:27:28
Inside several threads of questions. 01:27:32
And it can be very complex because what Jenna is stating really clearly is that's not. 01:27:35
What this will be used for, it's just going to be on the post and sometimes they'll see something and they'll go back and they'll 01:27:40
make scripts, but there's just not enough manpower inside of the office to do that. And our plan at the moment is, if we move 01:27:47
forward with this, to create a post kind of outlining those guidelines and where they can turn for those resources, pinning it. 01:27:54
You know, at the top of our feed or making it like a highlight level later on just so that people can reference that back and 01:28:01
that's in a really clear place for residents to see and recognize that. 01:28:05
We're not an emergency service like this isn't reported concern. This is meant to be community engagement and helping people get 01:28:10
answers to questions about the events that we're talking about or the programs that are going on. 01:28:15
But that real concerns do need to be channeled through the appropriate resources so. 01:28:20
Well, and I guess. 01:28:27
When we talk about that there. 01:28:28
This was a plan from when this was put in. 01:28:30
And the policy to make it an information site was to give everybody at the opportunity to obtain this information. 01:28:32
And to do the things that Jamie was articulating, and then this plan was being built. 01:28:39
But as you think about why you would open it back up, if you're just considering this to be a place where people gather 01:28:43
information, if you're thinking this is a place where people go and they get the answers to all of these other things, it will be 01:28:48
a confusing. 01:28:53
Platform because there's not the resources or ability to do any of those things on this. 01:28:58
Well, I could see a concern specifically. 01:29:03
Just from the history of the current Council, sometimes I think. 01:29:08
When this does get opened up or however we push forward. 01:29:12
Sometimes the council will have opinions on how it needs to be answered and I think there needs to be a clear policy that this is 01:29:17
in the purview of our social media director. And if there's something of great concern then it could be brought to the director. 01:29:23
But I think we would want to make sure that as a council we understand we can't micromanage that. 01:29:29
There's there's a really important legal issue. 01:29:36
Related to what Councilwoman SU Fuentes just mentioned, and I didn't put it on my presentation, but you do need to be. 01:29:39
Thinking about it. 01:29:46
Anytime that you have a quorum of the council gathered, it is a quote meeting. 01:29:48
And it has to be properly noticed. 01:29:54
And there's an interpretation of the Open and Public Meetings Act that. 01:29:56
If you all are on the same thread commenting. 01:30:01
That it would be a meeting. 01:30:05
And so my strong advice on city social media helps would be that members of the council limit. 01:30:07
Their interaction on those if you do decide to open comments up and. 01:30:16
I I should also note, and I didn't say this at the beginning of the presentation, we have a draft policy. Nothing is set in stone 01:30:20
yet. What we wanted to do is take it to you and broad strokes today. 01:30:26
To get your feedback on it. 01:30:31
And then we'll refine it, circulate it, you can review it and then consider it fully. 01:30:33
But. 01:30:39
You're not obligated to turn comments on. 01:30:40
On social media, you can choose to continue to use social media as just. 01:30:44
A way to push information out, but not a forum. 01:30:49
Not a public forum in the sense the First Amendment uses that word. 01:30:53
If once you open it up, it does become a public forum, it's a limited public forum you can put. 01:30:57
Time, place and manner restrictions on it, but not many. I mean it really. It really essentially is this list. 01:31:04
And so there will be situations where each of you may want to weigh in on comments or talk on the same thread. 01:31:11
Through those comments and you're going to be restricted a little bit just because of the Open and Public Meetings Act. 01:31:19
So I have a question. 01:31:25
If that's the case and there's something we want to respond to, can we just reach out and say? 01:31:27
Message me yes and not have a conversation on the same thread yes. 01:31:32
Yeah, you can certainly do that. You can reach out to your constituents, you know, through that platform, you could reach out to 01:31:37
them. 01:31:40
By e-mail, text, whatever is convenient. It just can't be. 01:31:44
A conversation including three or more of you. 01:31:47
On the same thread and there can be. 01:31:52
A little bit of tension among councils in that context, because if Sarah reads it first in comments. 01:31:55
And then Marty reads it second in comments. 01:32:01
Than the rest of you are left out. 01:32:04
Of the conversation. 01:32:06
OK. 01:32:08
OK, any questions? If not, send your thoughts to. 01:32:11
These two and we can start having a further discussion on it. 01:32:15
Does that mean all comments would be turned on Instagram, Facebook and every account that we have? 01:32:20
Well, there Twitter, there's a. 01:32:26
You can make a few different choices here. You could. 01:32:28
Elect to continue to keep comments off. 01:32:31
You could turn them on for certain posts and not others. 01:32:34
So the city may wish to put something out that would say we have an event this Thursday night. 01:32:38
Please come. 01:32:44
And you may not want comments on that thing and you may have another one that would be. 01:32:45
We're doing a planning study on this area and we would like your feedback. 01:32:50
Where you then would invite feedback and you could use the social media tool as a way to gather that. 01:32:54
Not all platforms let you turn some comments on some comments off, and so it gets a little tricky because it becomes binary. 01:33:01
Within how those systems work and so. 01:33:10
You could also have a discussion, and Jenna will know this better than I do, about how the different platforms work and whether 01:33:13
you wanted to have it. 01:33:17
Open comments across the board. 01:33:21
Comments on, you know, limited items, but not every item. 01:33:23
But the moment you open comments on an item. 01:33:27
You have to leave them open on that item. 01:33:30
And you can only. 01:33:33
Call or restrict those comments that fall into those. Really. 01:33:35
Strict categories that I had up on the screen. 01:33:39
Great. Thank you. 01:33:45
All right, Sammy, you're up again. 01:33:46
For the Finance Committee. 01:33:49
I'm going to slide into this seat because. 01:33:53
This is really Councilmember Holdaway's item. 01:33:55
But I'll give a little bit of background on it. 01:33:59
There have been questions during the budget discussions of. 01:34:03
What are the right ways for council members and for residents to engage in? 01:34:08
Financial decisions of the city. 01:34:14
And so a piece of advice that I have given to. 01:34:16
Council member Holdaway and other members of the City Council is that some cities form. 01:34:20
Finance Committee. 01:34:26
And the Finance Committee typically is. 01:34:28
Formed by a few council members and then. 01:34:31
Those members of staff that have. 01:34:34
Areas of responsibility related to finance it could be. 01:34:39
Budget responsibilities that could be treasurer responsibilities, that could be audit responsibilities, but anything in in kind of 01:34:42
that grouping in that category. 01:34:47
Could attend those meetings. 01:34:52
They because it's not a quorum of the council, they wouldn't meet publicly, but what it would do is provide a structure wherein a 01:34:54
few different council members could. 01:34:59
Dive a little bit deeper into that topic and then anytime you have. 01:35:05
A discussion as a council on a financial topic. You could look to those council members as. 01:35:08
More expert than they would be if they just had brought. 01:35:14
Responsibilities across the Council and so. 01:35:18
Councilmember Holloway asked to have this be placed on the agenda for discussion. The mayor acquiesced. 01:35:22
And put it on the. 01:35:28
Agenda today as an option. 01:35:30
I have done a little bit of work just to review. 01:35:32
How a few different cities use finance committees. 01:35:35
That's just based on the experience of the lawyers in my firm in the different cities that we represent. 01:35:39
They're the only city we could find in the state that had a formally established Finance Committee that had code sections and the 01:35:44
like. Was. 01:35:48
Salt Lake City, that's in a really different government structure and they actually had a Finance Committee for their RDA. 01:35:53
Their counsel and their. 01:35:58
City administration. 01:36:02
And it was really different than I think what you'd be, what you'd be talking about, but. 01:36:04
Essentially, by my experience, most cities have the function with a few different council members and then staff as needed. 01:36:10
They don't name anybody other than the council members to the committee and the committee members. 01:36:17
Under Vineyard code would be. 01:36:23
Appointed by the mayor and then? 01:36:25
Work in that capacity as their their council assignments. 01:36:27
So I'll add just for context, typically what we've done is I usually appoint someone to finance or I hold the seat myself and then 01:36:32
invite rotating council members to have discussions with our executive staff and our finance team. And then all council goes 01:36:40
through the budgeting process and has their individual meetings through that section. So because we had a lot of. 01:36:48
Questions and detail This year we had a lot of. 01:36:57
Group discussion and then individual discussions and then we held a lot of open discussions for people that wanted to bring in. 01:37:00
People they were working with. 01:37:07
But following that line, we can definitely move forward and even assign one or two people. 01:37:09
As we go forward and the way that we've processed it in the past is quarterly meetings. 01:37:15
That's typical. And then just any insights or any meetings that they have questions and then we would still remain the Council 01:37:21
through that same budget process. 01:37:26
Dave, did you have anything to add or anything that you wanted to clarify? 01:37:37
Umm, you know, we have a very long history and I wish Eric were here. 01:37:47
To defend himself, but we've gone back and forth in emails. 01:37:53
You know, as I called the state. 01:37:56
Auditor today. 01:37:59
I called. 01:38:01
A lot of different cities. 01:38:02
And I have had to help him understand that. 01:38:04
My city manager wants to deny meetings and I now have been corrected that he can deny meetings under his authority. 01:38:07
Umm, it's just disappointing. 01:38:15
You can have two different sides of stories. 01:38:22
Of I think this happened. 01:38:26
And there's a long history there. I even called, you know, previous. 01:38:28
Late Commission members of How do I Deal Better with Eric? 01:38:35
And the first thing that. 01:38:38
Came up was. 01:38:43
He does have a right, but the Council has the ability. 01:38:45
To put in different policies. 01:38:49
Our ordinance says that maybe we might not be able to force him, but we have the ability to do open working sessions. 01:38:53
Knowing the history. 01:39:00
And I don't want to belabor the point of all the instances. 01:39:02
But there are many, and I think everyone knows for the vast majority where. 01:39:06
Whether it be the Ledger? 01:39:10
Or different issues. 01:39:13
There's a different story and having a witness and. 01:39:17
An advisor. 01:39:23
And I would quite frankly say that the vast majority of things, and I understand that I'm more of the whistleblower role or the 01:39:25
one that picks at things not to be negative, but to try to improve. 01:39:29
I try to come with an eye of. 01:39:35
Hey, what is this? Whether it be? 01:39:37
You know, concert tickets or different things that come to light. 01:39:39
That are ugly. 01:39:43
Umm, you know they, I know they are accusatory of, of staff or things, but. 01:39:47
To go in all by yourself. 01:39:51
Is not good government. 01:39:54
Are you not being accommodated with this discussion? 01:39:56
Being provided an Ave. to start, set up a committee that you could be on and do these things. Yeah. So reading through the e-mail, 01:39:59
the mayor would pick her. 01:40:03
Committees, you would pick the people, it would be the finance director, it would be Eric. 01:40:08
And. 01:40:13
In his words, and I'm reading it straightforward, I would not advise or recommend that that a city, that a citizen be on that. So 01:40:14
that's not what we're talking about. 01:40:18
We're talking about the ability for me to have. 01:40:23
Somebody there is a witness so that false accusations don't come up. 01:40:26
And I don't want to go through because we've gone through close right. We're I don't want to go through closed door meetings of. 01:40:30
Things that have happened in our city where? 01:40:37
There are questions of what did or did not happen. 01:40:39
And as a council member. 01:40:43
With false accusations that have come up before in the past where investigations have had to happen. 01:40:45
Closed door meetings have had to happen and. 01:40:52
People's integrity have been questioned. I would be foolish to put myself in a one-on-one situation without an advisor or somebody 01:40:54
there. 01:40:59
Integrity in question. No, I'm saying there's two different stories. No, he's not here. We've we've talked about it in open with 01:41:05
him. We've gone back and forth. Actually we have talked about it in open and we have shown that there have been multiple witnesses 01:41:10
in the room and that they have disagreed with you and you have. 01:41:16
You have been told that. 01:41:21
Eric has met with the people that you were talking about and then said we can't continue to expend resources on this committee, 01:41:23
right. And, and, and it wasn't that. 01:41:28
It wasn't, and he had very specific reasons for it and it followed exactly what he needed to do. He was open about it. He talked 01:41:33
about it here. 01:41:38
And to come out and act like he wasn't trying, especially when you just randomly bring up things. 01:41:43
Like the Ledger or that you're a whistleblower. Nobody has been doing any activity that is illegal. Nobody has been trying to cut 01:41:50
you out of meetings. And even now when you brought up the Finance Committee, we're saying this is how we've done it. 01:41:56
This would be a great and appropriate way to do it. And if this isn't and I'm still talking, you can wait. You can wait your turn. 01:42:02
This isn't a word salad. This is stop, Stop and take your turn, OK? 01:42:08
This isn't a word salad. This Is Us. 01:42:15
Disagreeing with you or me and Amber speaking? Disagreeing with you. 01:42:17
A word salad. This is not a word salad. You're saying and the Ledger, and then you don't talk about the Ledger or what was 01:42:21
discussed or how you asked. I'm still talking and then you can talk. 01:42:27
You can talk when I'm done. 01:42:32
You are not just saying that there was a disagreement, You are making an accusation. You are stating that you are a whistleblower. 01:42:34
You are stating that you're creating transparency while other people are accusing him of doing something illegal and other 01:42:40
investigations. You are alluding to things. 01:42:45
That is inappropriate for this discussion. If you want to tell us that you want an advisor and that you want to expand this beyond 01:42:51
an executive meeting, that would be appropriate. 01:42:55
Go ahead and take your turn. 01:43:00
Can I openly talk about the issues and problems or do we have to go into a closed door session because I would love to name names 01:43:03
right now. 01:43:06
I don't have any context for. 01:43:10
If we need to go into the history of what's gone on, I think I'd like to go into a closed session. 01:43:13
I'd like to add that. 01:43:19
For character of someone, no, I would like to be able to openly talk about the instances. 01:43:21
Because they're known. If you wish to talk about the character, competence, or performance of an individual, then yes, a closed 01:43:27
session is the place for that. 01:43:31
If what I. 01:43:37
I'm struggling to follow. 01:43:39
No, someone would be so foolish. 01:43:42
I I'm struggling to follow how those conversations going to kind of personalize hang on, I'm still not done. 01:43:46
There there is. 01:43:55
The question that was put to me is. 01:43:57
What are ways that other cities engage in the finance? 01:44:00
Of the city. 01:44:06
The budget process. Audit process. 01:44:08
Bigger decisions that might require. 01:44:11
Financial tools or debt? 01:44:14
To fund. 01:44:16
And one of my answers to you was that many cities, most cities. 01:44:18
Have a formal Finance Committee that has a few council members on it. 01:44:24
And then those council members get to do a deeper dive. 01:44:28
And focus their time on that. And councils will have other assignments for other topics. And by dividing them up and diving deeper 01:44:33
as a council. 01:44:37
You then have council members that can develop some expertise. 01:44:42
So that when you have a question about the budget or finances or expenditures. 01:44:46
You don't always just have to go to your city manager. You also could turn to the council members that are on the Finance 01:44:52
Committee. 01:44:55
So that was the basis of my recommendation was. 01:44:59
If you want as a city to have. 01:45:03
Multiple layers of expertise and multiple eyes on things. 01:45:06
That a Finance Committee is a good way to accomplish that. 01:45:11
Now we're we're dealing more with trust issues and the ability to have an open. 01:45:15
Dialogue and understand what did or did not happen in meetings. 01:45:20
And I don't mind openly talking about it, but I don't want to say, hey, you're not allowed to talk about this. 01:45:25
So I mean, just with the Ledger, right, We went back and forth for two months of is Jaker? Eric asked using the word Ledger. 01:45:31
In these meetings and you go, if it was recorded or someone was there, they would know. 01:45:40
And that's good for both sides. 01:45:44
Right. I think I'm being very generous where I'm not saying who was right or was that. 01:45:46
But as a council putting in putting forth a policy to say. 01:45:51
Jake is not what Eric is now, and apparently under his authority. 01:45:55
Now has the ability. 01:46:00
To deny meetings if there is a witness or an advisor present and that is just unacceptable. 01:46:01
That made it seem like that was the reason why he did it. You wanted to have a meeting. 01:46:11
You called on the same day at 3:00. 01:46:16
In order to create actions by a committee that isn't deputized. We didn't wasn't brought on by the council. No, it was about 01:46:19
wanting to hold it the same day. I read through it wasn't the same day. 01:46:25
The budget committee was month. It was like weeks later. No, you met several times, right? We had a meeting that he was talking 01:46:32
about not holding. 01:46:36
Was scheduled and planned for and then you ended up holding at somebody's house at 5:00 at night. 01:46:41
No, no, that was not. 01:46:46
Eric denied that meeting. That's what I'm talking about because it was a short term schedule meeting. He's denying all meetings 01:46:48
moving forward. Mayor, he does not want to meet. He sent an e-mail out to me. 01:46:54
And said he will not meet unless I'm all by myself. 01:47:00
That's unacceptable. 01:47:02
That's not true. That's not true. That is, do we want anyone to raise their hands about what he's been going back and forth? 01:47:04
Listen, no, I mean, I was copied on some of these emails and I think if you're going to quote what his intentions are, I think you 01:47:09
should read the whole thing if you're going to. 01:47:14
If he's not here to speak for himself, and if you're going to summarize well, I'm glad to hear it, that he will be willing to meet 01:47:19
with somebody else in the room. 01:47:22
Because I think that you, it's not that he's not, it's not that he's not willing to meet with somebody else in the room. He's 01:47:26
saying that he wants. 01:47:31
I don't even want to hyper, I don't want to summarize his e-mail because I felt the way he worded it was very. 01:47:36
Fair and explain why he was denying it. 01:47:43
He's he's denying, he says that. I just don't think it's, I don't read the e-mail. Read the e-mail publicly if you want to. 01:47:48
Jacob, I feel bad that we don't want to meet often. 01:47:57
I meet with the other council members and mayor at least. 01:48:00
These are productive one-on-one meetings in which council members, the city manager and the city mayor can work together to 01:48:06
discuss issues facing the city. 01:48:09
In a collaborative manner. 01:48:13
Having these meetings help council members to be better representatives of those Vineyard residents. 01:48:14
Who elect them to that position? It allows you to be informed. 01:48:20
Oh, sorry, I'm reading the wrong e-mail. Sorry. 01:48:24
Let me grab. 01:48:27
Jake, please review my most recent communication. I did not accept your request to continue group meetings. Rather, I encourage 01:48:33
you to accept the offer. 01:48:38
To meet regularly with the mayor and me. 01:48:42
I also encourage you to take. 01:48:44
To take the content of those one-on-one meetings back to your constituents and advisors. 01:48:46
So yeah, he has. And he stopped reading now. He stopped read the whole thing because he talked about making sure that at the end 01:48:53
of the meeting that you 2 could discuss what the what the team was from the meeting. Hold on, let me finish. 01:48:59
You guys would discuss at the end of the meeting, this is what we talked about. This is where we stand. This is what we agree 01:49:06
upon. This is what will be reported to anyone and everyone that wants. I'm really excited to hear that. But that was in the 01:49:11
e-mail. You've read that e-mail. 01:49:15
Why would I have that e-mail and you wouldn't? 01:49:23
Excuse me. Well, point of order, we're going to go back to this discussion. We we see that. I'm excited to hear that he's going to 01:49:26
allow somebody in the meeting. That's not what I said. That's not at all what I said, Yeah. 01:49:32
It's a point of order. 01:49:39
You guys, many of the things actually finish what you're saying and then we're going to go back. 01:49:41
In that e-mail, I'm not sure if it's that exact. 01:49:47
One, but it's in that thread. 01:49:49
He said that he really wants to meet with you more regularly, right? And he understands your concern of the he said he said thing. 01:49:52
But what he said that at the end of the meeting with you and Hammond, potentially the mayor. 01:49:58
You would be able to sit down and say these are the points we talked about. 01:50:04
These are what we will report on, like a record of the meeting so that there is no confusion on, oh, Jake said this or Jake didn't 01:50:09
say this because you both would agree on how the meeting would be reported on. So for me, what I'm saying is I see intent here. He 01:50:15
doesn't want there to be this conflict with you. He understands your distrust of him and he's trying to find solutions. And I 01:50:21
think it's healthy for a city manager or any employee within any kind of city or corporation to have boundaries on how they're 01:50:27
able to. 01:50:33
Conduct their position and their job. So hold on one second. 01:50:40
Abound. Now the reason No. 01:50:44
And then saying, hold on, Jake, Jake, hold on, Jake, hold on one second. So Marty's point to you is that there's an opportunity to 01:50:47
have a discussion. 01:50:52
Because you served your point. 01:50:57
And then she responded. 01:50:59
And the point of the reason why I let it go on is because. 01:51:01
This allows us to decide if this is the way we want to hold. 01:51:06
The Finance Committee or if we want to formalize it in policy, we now know how it's been happening. 01:51:10
Jamie talked about how other cities do it and how we could do it. If you would like to offer a suggestion about doing it a 01:51:16
different way, please present it to the council. Council then you can discuss. That is the conversation we're having. We're now 01:51:20
going back to the. 01:51:24
The other discussion that is irrelevant to this we have to keep business. 01:51:28
We already understand. 01:51:34
That you feel there's disagreement, we recognize it. We understand you feel. 01:51:36
That there's a story going on that. 01:51:42
You're not having representations. So if you want representation, no, it's not that. Again, like. 01:51:44
When we meet. 01:51:50
And there are key differences, and we bring in a few witnesses and immediately they recognize that what he is saying isn't true. 01:51:51
It's awesome to have somebody there. 01:51:58
I'm excited to have people come up that were in the meeting. We all just we. 01:52:05
None of you were in the meeting, so listen. 01:52:09
I don't believe this is important to continue to rehash because we understand. 01:52:13
I guess your recommendation that you guys are open to it because I've been prepared, nobody has said it, but we are understanding 01:52:28
that you're asking please stop. You've been asked to stop. You've been asked to stop talking about this because it's irrelevant. 01:52:34
No, you are interrupting. 01:52:41
You are not allowing us to discuss as a council, you are not allowing us to form a committee or even understand the things that 01:52:47
you want to contribute. 01:52:51
All you have to say is you want additional representation. No, no, that's not what I want either. 01:52:55
What do you want in America nobody is talking about? 01:52:59
Representation, not representation another person to be a witness. That's what you would like, right? So when we go through and 01:53:03
there's misunderstanding, somebody can be there that is a trusted advisor that goes and says, hey. 01:53:09
Eric said this and you can go over and say. 01:53:16
Did that or did that not happen? And it's been time and time again. 01:53:20
That it's we caught this OK. And sometimes, sometimes he will catch me on me, miss. We all misspeak. OK. So Council, I think 01:53:23
what's on the table is that Eric offered that those meetings could be recorded and Jake is offering that he would like somebody 01:53:29
from the outside that he trusts. 01:53:35
Within those meetings, if he's part of the Finance Committee. 01:53:41
Doesn't need to be a Finance Committee. There does not need to be. And I don't know if Jamie didn't understand that. I just talked 01:53:45
about how. 01:53:48
There were multiple instances. 01:53:52
Where things happen and it was like. 01:53:54
I'm glad you were there and I'm glad my integrity is not being questioned. 01:53:57
I'm glad that that did occur. 01:54:02
And that we we don't put ourselves into open liability. I'm going to turn comments over to another council person. You often talk 01:54:04
about the spirit of things, right? 01:54:09
I think that we're we're failing to have a good spirit about this because it seems like the issue is, is that you're going into 01:54:14
these meetings with. 01:54:18
A deep distress of the person that's giving you the information. 01:54:24
And so you want someone there to be a witness of when he quote UN quote life? I don't want it to continue. Hold on. I'm not gonna 01:54:28
have a back and forth. Marty's going to speak and then I'm gonna give other council opportunities to speak so, so frankly. 01:54:35
I. 01:54:42
I respect the position of a city manager and a council member needing to be able to work together. 01:54:45
And I have no problem going into a meeting and working with Eric. 01:54:51
And if Eric saying, listen, Jake, when you bring in extra people to these meetings, it's just becoming like a Witz trial of sorts 01:54:55
or you're just trying to catch me in lies, then he is saying that the spirit of these meetings aren't. 01:55:02
Working. So if it was just like you wanted to bring in. 01:55:09
I don't know it. 01:55:13
Someone with you every time. I think maybe the spirit of it, if it were different. 01:55:14
Then you wouldn't be having so much pushback, but because the way the meetings are being functioned and that it seems like an I 01:55:19
gotcha moment every time I think he's realizing that they're not productive. I would say as my comment, this isn't a back and 01:55:25
forth other council get to take their turns and then you can comment. So I would say that what I recognize in this conversation 01:55:31
and why we're talking about a Finance Committee is that in the last conversation. 01:55:37
Councilmember Foldaway brought forward a committee that he said had been deputized, picked and brought in to discuss and go line 01:55:44
by line through itemization of the budget and that they were making these recommendations and that they were all designated to a 01:55:51
certain area. And we said as a council, this wasn't done by the council, This isn't representative of the people. And so we have 01:55:57
to formalize the committee if we're going to do something like that and the way that we would formalize it. 01:56:03
As Jamie's discussing, any committee like this? 01:56:10
Have to acknowledge it as a council and formalize it or we have to not spend our staff time on it and spend our staff time on 01:56:43
other things that we're putting our resources to. And I think that's what's on the discussion on the table tonight. 01:56:49
So Jamie, it's either, it's either Sarah or. 01:56:56
I'll take a second just to say this because I don't want a mayor or anyone being blamed for you not being able to meet with 01:57:01
people. 01:57:04
And I told you when we met one time. 01:57:08
I would not. 01:57:10
Talk to you outside of public meetings. 01:57:11
Because you will not work in good faith with me and you will not work in good faith with Eric. 01:57:13
I don't know how the other council people feel, but I just want to make sure you understand. 01:57:18
This is not some tyrannical mayor or city manager controlling everything. 01:57:23
Sarah, did you have a? 01:57:29
Honestly, that's been my experience too. 01:57:31
I've I've invited people mostly because I don't understand. 01:57:34
Government Finance. 01:57:37
And every time I've asked them to meet with me. 01:57:39
They've answered all my questions. 01:57:42
But I feel like the difference is, Jake, is you going to these meetings to find things to accuse? 01:57:44
Not to question, not to not to gain understanding. 01:57:49
But but to accuse and to find fault, and to find anywhere you can where you can go? 01:57:53
Say what you're gonna say. I have a whole different experience. 01:57:59
Than you do and I've been working with them for. 01:58:02
For the same amount of time. 01:58:05
And so I think it might be what Marty said, Your energy going into the room is more about revenge. 01:58:07
Then about, then about learning, and about. 01:58:12
Figuring out where things are good, where things are happening correctly in the city. 01:58:15
And even Kim herself. 01:58:20
She said I went, she went through with me and Christie line by line, and she said Christie is so conservative, she's so kind of 01:58:22
careful on the budget. 01:58:26
That we were both completely satisfied with what was happening. 01:58:31
And what we were seeing in the city. But we never hear that response from you. We never hear that acknowledgement. 01:58:34
About how hard people are working and what a great job they're doing. 01:58:39
And that's really frustrating. 01:58:43
Well, I don't want it to be a negative thing, but I mean, obviously I think I play a different role in playing the devil's 01:58:44
advocate and it's not to be. 01:58:49
Personal or anything like that? 01:58:55
But I will tell you the integrity of those that were. 01:58:57
In our group. 01:59:00
They did not come with a got to. 01:59:02
No one said it was them. 01:59:06
We're saying it's you. I I didn't talk in both meetings. 01:59:07
OK, I didn't talk. 01:59:14
Take, I think what would be helpful because this is a work session, but I just want to be clear because if that's what you're 01:59:16
hearing, that's what scares me is the second meeting that was the most contentious. 01:59:21
I was told not to talk and I got a candy bar at the end for not talking. 01:59:26
And so when I leave, I go, Why is Marty, Sifuentes and Sarah hearing that I'm contentious? 01:59:31
This bothers me about the spin. You're this way, you're misleading you're. 01:59:38
Every meeting, but this isn't a bad time. 01:59:42
Act this way every time as points of order though, for you to get to the heart of what you really need here, Jake. 01:59:46
It seems like you're not talking about a Finance Committee, you're talking about me. Hold on, hold on. It seems like you're 01:59:53
talking about meeting with people. 01:59:58
I think you need to recognize that if you're wanting to meet with your Finance Committee that you put together. 02:00:03
We have to have a different discussion and that you have to understand that resources and time of the city. 02:00:09
Have to be designated in a certain fashion. 02:00:14
If you would like to formalize and work on a policy, the Committee to Finance Committee together, that's a different discussion. I 02:00:17
think we can recognize that. 02:00:22
You now understand the resources and ability that Eric has. I think the rest of the council feels comfortable with that. I think 02:00:28
as far as the Finance Committee goes, we're open to a discussion of policy. I'm feeling the council is open to that, and we 02:00:33
already have something like that, but we can formalize it because it's a work session. I'm going to let you guys submit more of 02:00:38
your ideas. 02:00:43
For an agenda item for business for either policy and then I'm going to. 02:00:49
Let this go back to a discussion about resources and legal outside of this discussion because I think it's been understood here, 02:00:55
so I'm going to close out of this. 02:00:59
Item and we're going to move into public comments. 02:01:04
Is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak to? 02:01:07
This Council. 02:01:11
State your name, where you're from and we're going to put 2 minutes on. Can you raise your hand if you want to speak so I know how 02:01:16
much time I have? 02:01:19
You guys have kept me here online. I've got some things to say. Can you raise your hand if you want to speak tonight so I can know 02:01:23
how much time we have? 02:01:28
OK, I've got two people, all right. 02:01:34
Three people. 02:01:36
OK, umm. 02:01:37
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 02:01:38
I take offense to a lot of what has taken place. 02:01:42
I have been in these meetings. 02:01:47
And I have. 02:01:49
Heard Jake maligned. 02:01:51
By Eric Now I recognize that there's a history that Jake and Eric have. 02:01:54
That Marty and Eric don't have, Sarah and Eric don't have. 02:02:00
Amber and Eric don't have. 02:02:06
I think you're aware of it, Julie. 02:02:08
But I hear him being accused of. 02:02:11
Miss him for spreading this information. 02:02:16
When the reality was when I checked it further the following day. 02:02:19
The information that Eric gave us was totally inaccurate. Totally inaccurate about. 02:02:24
And RDA payments. 02:02:31
Jake didn't even mention it. 02:02:33
Except after it was brought up by someone else. 02:02:35
And that was Sean Herring, and Sean kind of knows RVA. 02:02:40
But nobody accused him in that meeting. 02:02:44
Of speaking falsely. 02:02:48
But in a conversation I have the following day with another Councilwoman. 02:02:50
She shared with me. 02:02:55
A completely different scenario. 02:02:58
And she said that is what has taken place. 02:03:01
So I really take offense with him going in and being the bad guy. I think we have to understand if he goes in. 02:03:04
Without anyone else. 02:03:12
It's not going to be the same as Marty going in or as Sarah going in because there's a history there and I don't think either one 02:03:13
of them trust each other. 02:03:18
And that is a sad scenario. 02:03:22
And I think that Jake. 02:03:25
Needs people with him. 02:03:27
And if anybody wants to know what the situation is I'm Speaking of. 02:03:30
Is the forge. 02:03:33
And it is the RDA. 02:03:35
Having been. 02:03:37
Having reimbursed the Forge developers, that is exactly what Marty told me. 02:03:39
The following day I didn't ask you about it. 02:03:44
The forge. We were talking about the forge. 02:03:47
At the open house. 02:03:50
We were talking at the. 02:03:52
Have a see. I needed a witness. 02:03:54
I need a no, we're not going to have it back and forth. Thank you for your comment. Is there anything else? 02:03:58
We had also in a meeting with. 02:04:04
Umm, as we were discussing some of the ways that we might fortify the budget, the city budget we recognize. 02:04:07
That the tax. 02:04:14
The tax increase is taking place. 02:04:17
And we are excited that we're going to have the safety. 02:04:19
The safety avenues here in this city. 02:04:23
But we brought up. 02:04:26
That we would like to see. 02:04:28
The $3,000,000 that has been set aside. 02:04:31
For a City Hall that is not currently needed. 02:04:35
We would like to see that money go to the fire station. 02:04:38
That money? 02:04:42
Then we have set aside for the fire station could be a surplus in our budget. 02:04:43
That could help us. 02:04:48
And this was a discussion we had and he. 02:04:50
Gave some story about. 02:04:53
RDA money has to go for. 02:04:55
In ground. 02:04:58
Infrastructure for roads, for lighting. 02:04:59
And the question came up, how is how is the fire station any different? 02:05:03
Than the City Hall. They're both vertical. 02:05:09
He said he would have to get back to us and that he would bring it up. 02:05:12
I don't think any of you have heard that. 02:05:16
But so I think. 02:05:18
He is running his agenda too and I think that it's very wrong. I'm sorry he's not here because I would be saying the same things. 02:05:21
But it's very wrong to put the blame on one. 02:05:29
And I think that would be in the best interest of everyone on this Council. 02:05:32
If they allowed him to have a scribe and another person with him at each of these meetings. 02:05:37
Because we are at an impasse there and I think that. 02:05:42
I think we need to respect that, and I think that is very amber. I'm so tired of you shaking your hand. I'm sorry. 02:05:46
But I think that it's really important. 02:05:54
That we don't malign. 02:05:57
His character. 02:05:59
And none of you understand because you don't have the history. 02:06:01
With Eric. 02:06:05
That Jake and Eric have, and I think that's very unfair. 02:06:08
That we're trying and I'm not trying to be. I'm not trying to be a troublemaker. 02:06:12
I am not trying to do anything like that. I'm a mother of five and a grandmother of 18, and I know sometimes. 02:06:17
When you're not in the room, you're not going to get the whole story. 02:06:24
When they're coming out telling on one another. 02:06:28
I think that that is human nature. 02:06:32
And I think we're in an interesting position here because of the history. 02:06:34
That this small little town has. 02:06:39
And we need to respect one another. And that's one of the ways that I think we can show respect is by allowing. 02:06:42
Him, Jake and Eric to have meetings where there is someone else in. 02:06:48
Present at the time. 02:06:53
And one more thing. 02:06:55
I was. 02:06:57
Taken aback tonight. 02:06:58
When it was not on the agenda. 02:07:00
But our lobbyists were brought up to speak. 02:07:02
However, they weren't called lobbyists, they were called legislative. 02:07:05
Legislative consultants. 02:07:10
Nowhere on the budget do I see. 02:07:13
Legislative consultants. So let's call them what they are. They are our lobbyists and that's the way they show up in our budget. 02:07:15
Thanks. 02:07:19
If it's the same. 02:07:26
Russ Levinson, resident of the Villas. 02:07:38
Happy to live there, feel blessed to live there. 02:07:41
This is a first. I don't think my wife's talking tonight. 02:07:43
And she doesn't have laryngitis or anything like that. 02:07:46
But uh. 02:07:49
This hasn't been very fun. 02:07:50
And hopefully good comes out of it, I really do. 02:07:52
I know sometimes there needs to be some storming and so on. 02:07:55
But we do need to move forward again, said the last time. We're all on the same team. 02:08:00
But I'm not going to talk about something a little bit different too that. 02:08:06
Also, I think it's wrong too that we have to wait 195 minutes before the public comments. 02:08:10
I'm not sure why the closed session had to be wholeheld when it did. 02:08:15
Why it's not held at the end like it has been before? 02:08:18
Maybe there's a reason for it? 02:08:21
But waiting over three hours for it to be able to make public, public comments isn't right. 02:08:24
At least isn't isn't good. 02:08:30
I'll say that, but my wife and I attended the Planning Commission last week. 02:08:32
And they talked about the grocery store. 02:08:37
And a couple of things troubled me. 02:08:39
One is that we found out that the owners of the grocery store is Flagboro. 02:08:42
We were told. 02:08:48
And leaves. 02:08:50
Lisa's managing it. 02:08:51
And to me, that just, I don't know, just doesn't sit right with me. 02:08:53
It would seem like we should would. 02:08:58
We thought, and I'm not sure any people on the council even knew that. 02:09:00
That black borough is the owner of the grocery store. 02:09:04
And that that bothers me because they just. 02:09:08
Just seemed like they got their hand in everything and they're controlling everything over there. 02:09:14
And my wife and I wrote a letter a long time ago that. 02:09:19
Well, last year of it to the council and mayor that. 02:09:21
Said this looks like the. 02:09:25
Flagborough is controlling everything and. 02:09:27
And we're subservient to them. 02:09:29
Does that troubled me? You know, nothing troubled me about the grocery stores, the design. 02:09:31
They want the when the trucks come to deliver. 02:09:35
They have to block a public road to back in. 02:09:38
And poor design. 02:09:42
And, you know, people said, well, we'll be coming in the wee hours of the morning. You can't assume that. 02:09:44
They come all times of the day. 02:09:49
And then they say, well, it's not a very busy road or whatever, but that bothers me too, that. 02:09:52
They have to just put every little square inch in there for their benefit to make their dollar. 02:09:57
Instead of making it a better place for the people of Vineyard. 02:10:03
And I just wanted to express those comments and. 02:10:06
Thank you very much. 02:10:10
Thanks. All right. I'm Justin Hammer. I live in the Solstice neighborhood. I sent an e-mail to everybody. I just want to put a 02:10:12
face to the words. Bit of a tonal shift, I think, but. 02:10:18
I just want to. I noticed in the papers that I got that. 02:10:24
Public comments are supposed to be for non agenda items so. 02:10:29
Just a couple other things for my e-mail that I. 02:10:32
I sent you about public safety stuff. 02:10:34
I've talked to the mayor. 02:10:38
Couple times over the last couple years about off leash dogs. That's just continue. 02:10:39
Continual thing that I see when I'm out running. 02:10:44
It's always there's all and it's probably a weekly occurrence where I have a dog that comes after me. Thankfully nothing bad has 02:10:47
happened so far. 02:10:50
And then in addition to that, just another. 02:10:54
Point for my e-mail I wanted to reiterate about. 02:10:57
Just car safety in general, I think that. 02:11:00
There's there are a number of streets where I especially recognize that need extra attention when I'm out. 02:11:03
Anytime somebody's turning on the Main Street feels like they're not looking both ways left and right for pedestrians, and I know 02:11:09
that. 02:11:13
One of our paths goes right along there as well, so I think both but. 02:11:16
Yeah, we've already talked about the golf carts and everything and obviously. 02:11:21
That was in my e-mail too, but yeah, so. 02:11:26
I think if there's anything I can do to continue to facilitate the conversation, I'm happy to do that. I will continue to be 02:11:31
recording my runs as well. I don't know if I need to. 02:11:35
Keep sending updates or whatever, but umm yeah. Open to the conversation so thanks. Thank you. 02:11:40
All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our consent agenda. 02:11:48
Do I need a motion? 02:11:54
I move to approve the consent items as presented. Thank you. First by Marty. Can I get a second? 02:12:02
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 02:12:09
All right, we'll move on to our business items public hearing for zoning text amendment Sections 151250 and 1532 to 20. 02:12:13
We'll go into the public hearing and then we will. 02:12:23
Have this discussion, Morgan, will you be talking about this? 02:12:27
Yes, OK. 02:12:32
Can I get a motion to go into a public hearing? 02:12:34
So moved. Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 02:12:36
2nd thank you Sarah. All in favor. 02:12:40
Aye. All right, go ahead, Morgan. OK, great. I'm gonna pull the map really quick to show you the. 02:12:42
Part of the city that would be affected by this change. 02:12:49
OK, Thank you, Mayor and members of the council wanted to. 02:13:26
Show you really quickly that this change. 02:13:30
Affects the FOI district. This is from Enigma 3. 02:13:33
They're a studio. 02:13:38
On the Northside of the city. 02:13:41
Located off the 1600 N. 02:13:43
They provide studio space. 02:13:45
For filming. 02:13:48
And they are requesting. 02:13:50
A text amendment to the FOI district to allow for. 02:13:52
Events and specifically Event centers. 02:13:56
To operate as conditional use permit. 02:14:02
The Planning Commission did review this change. They recommended approval to the. 02:14:05
To the City Council. 02:14:11
With the amendment that a definition presents center be added. 02:14:12
Umm, this right here shows. 02:14:19
The table. 02:14:24
So this is just to come back a cross section of the table event centers being added. 02:14:25
Conditional use being put into the FOI. 02:14:29
There are other districts throughout the city where we can probably have event centers as well. We are doing a larger kind of bulk 02:14:32
amendment to our zoning code. 02:14:37
But that so potentially we could fit that into like the retail districts. There's there's some other areas that we think it would 02:14:42
be really beneficial. 02:14:46
Overall, we found that the proposal. 02:14:50
Would be a very +1 who would bring people from outside the city into the city. So from an economic development standpoint, that 02:14:53
would be really helpful. 02:14:57
Additionally, the conditional use permit process would allow the Planning Commission to impose conditions to mitigate any 02:15:01
potential impacts. 02:15:04
You know, to safety to the public or to impact to surrounding neighbors. 02:15:09
Some of those impacts that we kind of looked at in the FOI district could be. 02:15:13
The mixing of. 02:15:18
You know, visitor parking and traffic with that of trucks and deliveries. 02:15:20
And so the conditional use permit process would allow for the Planning Commission to control some of the hours of operation, 02:15:26
ensure that there's traffic. 02:15:30
Control on site. 02:15:36
That parking areas are well lit. Typically in the industrial districts, you know there are some parking lots that a little bit 02:15:38
darker. This would affect the whole FOI. 02:15:42
But we do know that they would propose. 02:15:46
Having an Event Center. 02:15:49
Or more regularly scheduled events that would fall under the Event Center use on their property. 02:15:51
And so with that, staff is also recommending approval and standard for any questions. 02:15:58
OK, are there any questions from the Council? 02:16:05
Actually, I'll put it to the public. Any questions for the public? 02:16:07
A lot of time. 02:16:13
OK, let's go ahead and go out of a public hearing. 02:16:16
Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second, second, second by Marty all in favor? 02:16:19
OK. 02:16:25
Council questions. 02:16:26
We we each have a map again. 02:16:28
I didn't see the map. 02:16:30
While you're doing. 02:16:33
If you're really, never mind. 02:16:35
So the the FOI district is the district that covers a large portion of the northeastern part of the city. 02:16:37
FOI stands for Flex office Industrial, so that's where we do have a lot of flex office. 02:16:45
Typically warehouses with like a retail frontage or an office frontage. 02:16:49
So that's kind of the primary building form that you see up there. 02:16:53
The applicant is intending to do more regular events, if you remember. 02:16:58
I think it was a few months ago the there was a one off approval before for an event up there so this would allow them. 02:17:04
To dysfunction as a regular business who would provide them another revenue source. 02:17:10
And we feel it would be very positive. 02:17:16
OK. Any additional questions? Otherwise I need a motion. 02:17:18
I support it. 02:17:24
They expect all the first by Jake. Can I get a second? 02:17:25
Second Second by Sarah. 02:17:29
I'll do roll call, say does this go through the whole property? So anyone in the foyer area cannot do this? Yeah. So what they 02:17:31
would be allowed to do is to apply for conditional use permit, then they they would go to the Planning Commission. And so the 02:17:37
Planning Commission could right size it depending on where it goes. 02:17:42
And I met with them. It makes sense and we need to be flexible for businesses in that area to. 02:17:48
Stay in business when business models change. 02:17:53
Shift, yeah, this is also a use that would be positive for other businesses and providing a place for other businesses to hold 02:17:56
events. And they said that's their primary function. I think that then had a large event there. 02:18:01
This would be good for our business community as well. OK, any further discussion? 02:18:06
OK, Shake. 02:18:12
Aye, Amber, aye aye, Marty, Sarah. 02:18:13
Yes. All right. We'll go into our second public hearing. This is the consolidated fee schedule amendment Resolution 2022 for 2025. 02:18:17
Our utility billing clerk, Maria will come and present. I need a motion to go into a public hearing. So moved. Thank you. Marty, 02:18:25
can I get a second? 02:18:29
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, Aye. We're now in a public hearing. 02:18:33
So I submitted this and I wanted to just give you guys an update that I did change some today. 02:18:38
This week we got clarification, worrying that I needed to do. 02:18:44
So the ones that we changed as of today that you might have not seen are going to be. 02:18:47
The fire hydrant meter. 02:18:52
We're going to do a residential daily rental fee that's going to be for people that are renting it out. 02:18:54
To like fill up their pools so instead of charging them. 02:19:00
The commercial price, we're going to do $10 a day plus the residential fee. 02:19:04
For water usage and then. 02:19:08
For fire hydrant meters for the commercial use. 02:19:12
We've changed it to now say that they will be paying. 02:19:16
The base rate for a three inch meter every month. 02:19:19
And then after the that will be for the initial 5000 gallons. After that they'll go to the tiered rate. 02:19:21
On the commercial usage, will you bring up any other changes for the public if you want me to, yeah, yes. 02:19:27
Oh yeah. Do we have it that we could pull it up? 02:19:36
If not, you can read them if it's in the staff report. Yeah, give me a second. 02:19:38
I'm assuming they're red lines, so we can probably, yeah, a little red line. So #5 is gonna be the first one. 02:20:22
At the bottom so. 02:20:30
Non vineyard resident business fee so this is for. 02:20:32
Water rates if they are outside of the city. 02:20:36
So this has got to be kind of towards Linden Marina since we service them. 02:20:39
Since they are not Vineyard, residents are not in Vineyard, we would charge them double the rate. 02:20:43
So that's just adding that in there. 02:20:48
Next one. 02:20:50
Is collection. So as of now we do not have a collections policy in place. That's something that I've been working on for the last 02:20:52
year. 02:20:55
And we have kind of finalized it to where we're going. We're going with one. So we were just adding it into the fee schedule. 02:21:00
This will be for. 02:21:06
Any unpaid utility bills, fees, or civil penalties that are not paid. 02:21:07
Then we'll just go into collections after. 02:21:11
30 days past the due date, OK. 02:21:14
And then? 02:21:18
Eric kind of brought it up. 02:21:19
Yeah. 02:21:21
So collections like. 02:21:23
Outside of the city where we send it out. 02:21:25
So. 02:21:29
Because how it's worked as of now is. 02:21:30
We've never, we haven't had a collection agency in years. There's. 02:21:32
Been discussions if there's been one in the past but we haven't used one. 02:21:36
Since a lot of people have known. 02:21:40
But that's very standard for every city to have. 02:21:42
Well, I mean like. 02:21:44
When I get a bill sent to collections I feel like my life has ended because I care about my credit score. So usually this is going 02:21:46
to be For the most part, the unpaid utility bills are for people who have moved out of the city and we can't get contact with. 02:21:52
Would we want to say something like six years? I just feel like 30 days is that would be something we'd have to change in the in 02:21:59
the code. So in the code right now, it states 30 days. So that's why I put that on there. 02:22:05
That could be something that we could look into most what cities do, and I've contacted every city in Utah County. 02:22:10
Is they all typically do 30 days so and they kind of have some lenience. 02:22:17
What they do is they'll send out a. 02:22:23
Initial letter that says hey here's. 02:22:25
You'll notice you owe this past due balance. 02:22:28
They'll send a warning saying hey now you're going to go to collections if you don't pay within this time frame. 02:22:31
At that point goes to collections. 02:22:35
I believe from what I remember there's only. 02:22:37
Two to three cities that go past. 02:22:40
30 days and usually they go to 45 days. 02:22:43
And that's kind of where they give their cutoff. For the most part, how we've been is very lenient. 02:22:46
And even then, we typically would probably be a lot more lenient. They're working with us. This is going to be for people who. 02:22:50
Haven't yet in contact with us. 02:22:57
Have walked our numbers anything like that where we can't reach out to them. 02:22:58
I think it's kind of an aggressive policy. 02:23:04
I mean, we can focus on this later, I guess. Yeah, we can. We can look at changing in the code if you want to change it to an 02:23:06
additional phase as of now, because it's in the code. That's why I put 30 days. I just worry. 02:23:12
For people that might not check their it sounds like. 02:23:17
What you're doing is great. I just think that that's so this isn't for like people typically who are in the city, So how I usually 02:23:21
do it. 02:23:25
As I reach out to them multiple times and I usually get a response. So this is more for people, like I said, who have moved out of 02:23:29
Vineyard and are no longer residents. 02:23:32
So we have. 02:23:36
They even offer payment plans and then they put on cycles. So we have about 10 accounts that are closed right now for people who 02:23:38
have not been here in. 02:23:42
A couple years and we haven't been able to reach them out. 02:23:46
And right now we have. 02:23:49
An account balance of $5000 that we haven't been able to collect on, but those accounts would clearly be past 30 days if they 02:23:52
haven't lived here. So I'm just saying as a policy. 02:23:57
I still want to read. Yeah, we can do that. 02:24:03
Yeah. So I can put that down, but yeah. And then. 02:24:07
I said for sanitation fees, Eric talked about that, but Republics is raising their fees, so we. 02:24:11
Have to also. 02:24:17
To kind of keep up with that. 02:24:18
Page 8. That's fun. 02:24:21
Food truck vendor fees. This is for special events. 02:24:25
They just didn't have one in place. 02:24:29
This is so that they can now have a fee for their license. 02:24:31
Personality just changed the staff per person. We decided to just do 1 ring instead of having. 02:24:36
Separate rates for individual departments. 02:24:41
#9. 02:24:44
Illegal trash dumping that wasn't in place before so that we have added a fry enough $250 for that. 02:24:47
On that one. 02:24:54
Maybe there's something we could do at another time, but is there something for wetland? 02:24:56
Dump it. 02:25:03
It seems like maybe that's something we need to talk with Jamie on. But yeah, if there's people dumping in like Sunset Lands area 02:25:04
that we, we may want to bump that up a little bit, but that can be pretty bad. I mean, we do get that. 02:25:10
So yeah, the next time around. 02:25:17
#11. 02:25:23
Water sampling cost of 10%. 02:25:31
And there's $300. 02:25:34
Fee as any more Naseem. 02:25:36
The rest of it on there is just kind of adding words that make more sense. Public works is also part. 02:25:40
Of that engineering team, so we've added that. 02:25:45
Uh, same deal. 02:25:49
Go down more. 02:25:54
This is all just red line because they've redone the whole page, so the next page will just show all of the new fees. 02:25:56
And then the last one. 02:26:14
Which we've talked about most of them. 02:26:16
The only other ones that I haven't talked on that page are Unauthorized opening of meter box. 02:26:19
And water main flushing, those have been added. 02:26:24
OK. Is that it? Yeah. 02:26:28
Any questions from the public? 02:26:30
OK, I need to go out of the public hearing. I need a motion. 02:26:34
So moved. Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 02:26:40
Second, second by Sarah, all in favor. Thank you. Any questions or comments by the Council? 02:26:43
I was just hoping Maria would explain the report a concern. 02:26:50
I talked to her today about that. 02:26:55
Because I I know I've seen it on the city page. 02:26:58
But I didn't, it didn't really register. Will you, will you come back up? 02:27:01
And just explain what you. 02:27:04
Told me today because I think it's really beneficial if we're. 02:27:07
In unison where we. 02:27:11
On social media, if we can just. 02:27:13
Direct people back to the report of concern instead of trying to solve it and reach out I. 02:27:16
Done that a few times trying to reach out to cash in this game. 02:27:21
Where I can just given to you and then anyway just tell everything Yeah. So a part of my. 02:27:24
I'm part time in Utility billing. I'm also part time in Neighborhood Services Coordinator. 02:27:30
So that also entails code enforcement for the city. 02:27:35
What we've kind of discussed today is kind of our what our plans are going forward. 02:27:39
One of the biggest things that I've noticed is Enemy and cash have kind of talked about this is on social media we've been 02:27:44
getting. 02:27:47
A lot of people just saying, hey, the city's not doing anything and they'll post their concerns to Facebook. 02:27:50
And Jenna kind of talked about it earlier. 02:27:55
Where people are kind of venting their issues or what they're what they're seeing in terms of concerns. 02:27:58
But they're not sending it to me through the report of concern. 02:28:04
So half the time I'm not getting it. 02:28:08
And so I've gotten calls saying, hey, I made this post and nobody's going back to me. 02:28:10
And I have to then say, well, that's not the right channel. 02:28:15
So. 02:28:18
What we've kind of talked about is. 02:28:19
If while you guys are on Facebook and you do see these comments where people are saying hey there's Wasps here or. 02:28:20
Hey, there's garbage here that we want to discuss. 02:28:27
If you could, then just instead of. 02:28:29
Some people have been. 02:28:32
Saying, oh, I wish the city would. 02:28:33
Get back to you. I hope I'll tell the city to reach back to you. What they should, what I would prefer. 02:28:36
Is to say. 02:28:42
Here's the Report of concern link. Please make. 02:28:43
A report here. 02:28:46
And then someone will get back to you and then that would go to me. 02:28:47
And I could look into it and work on it. 02:28:50
Perfect. Yeah. And can you tell me about your news, your new software? 02:28:53
Oh yeah. So we do have new software that we just got, which is Civic Review. 02:28:57
That has gotten a lot easier because before what we would do is it was a spreadsheet. 02:29:03
That I would mark everybody's information, address, phone number. 02:29:08
And then what I had done and contacted. 02:29:13
What this new? 02:29:16
Software does. 02:29:17
Is it will give me the capabilities to notify people what process they're in? 02:29:19
So when a concern comes in, I can say. 02:29:24
In progress. 02:29:28
Investigating a resolve and then that will send them an e-mail to let them know where they're at in the process. 02:29:29
So they know when I'm working on it, when I've looked at it and what it's done and during those. 02:29:35
Once it's resolved or in the process, I can write a note. 02:29:41
And it'll also send it with that notification. So if it says resolved, it'll say. 02:29:45
Dear so and so this is I've looked into this. This is what I've done. 02:29:49
Please reach out to me if you have any other questions and then I'll send it with them. 02:29:53
And then that will also give me a tracking system so I can see. 02:29:57
What areas might be more concerned? 02:30:01
And then like. 02:30:06
What areas, what issues are there? So if there's a lot of weeds? 02:30:08
A lot of like parking issues, occupancy, anything like that. 02:30:13
OK. I love that. Thank you. 02:30:17
All right, I need a motion. 02:30:19
Is that what Marty showed today? 02:30:24
I moved to adopt Resolution 2024-25, Consolidated fee schedule amendments. 02:30:28
Presented as presented by staff. All right, I have a first time Marty. Can I get a second? 02:30:35
Second Second by Sarah. 02:30:39
I'll do this by roll call Jake. 02:30:42
This is 10.3 right? 02:30:44
10.2. 02:30:47
Amber aye. 02:30:50
All right, Marty. Yay, Sarah. Yes. 02:30:52
All right, that brings us to 10.3 discussing an action adoption of the fiscal year 2024-2025 budget Resolution 2024-24. 02:30:55
And. 02:31:06
Christy, yes, you will be. 02:31:08
Disgusting. 02:31:11
Thank you, Mayor. 02:31:20
I feel like we've talked. 02:31:23
Very much about the budget in the last couple months. 02:31:25
I feel like the council is probably very familiar with it, as are many of the residents. 02:31:28
Umm, I just wanted to mention some of the changes that had happened since 2 weeks ago. It was tabled and there have been some 02:31:34
housekeeping items that have come up since then. Just some changes in some estimates. 02:31:39
As well as some other things that we were trying to. 02:31:44
Cut everywhere we could. 02:31:48
I just wanted to make the citizens and council members aware of that. 02:31:50
In the communications budget, we did cut. 02:31:54
25,000 related to a consultant. 02:31:58
In the capital. 02:32:02
Projects. 02:32:03
Budget We took out the modular roundabouts that had been discussed. 02:32:06
And we have tabled that. 02:32:10
To help. 02:32:12
With the fund balance as well. 02:32:14
There were some adjustments that were needed related to water use in the parks and the public works maintenance. 02:32:16
Those allocations needed to be adjusted and moved to different funds and I was able to take care of that. 02:32:24
And roundabout, in the end, we were able to decrease the prior use of fund balance for the general fund with almost $190,000. 02:32:31
So at this time I just ask that the Council approve the budget for fiscal year 25. 02:32:40
I'm also mentioning that we by law, have to have a budget approved. 02:32:46
And uploaded to the state website by the end of this month. So this is kind of an important. 02:32:50
Action that we have, that we are coming to. 02:32:55
Perfect. Thank you so much. 02:32:59
Council, can I would anybody like to make comment? Jake? I'm gonna rotate the comments really quick. 02:33:01
Umm, Sarah Amber, do you? 02:33:07
It's come a long way. 02:33:11
It's been a lot of work, a lot of input from a lot of different people, and you've managed it very well. Thank you very much. 02:33:13
Thank you, Sir. I agree. I appreciate your patience and. 02:33:20
Answering all of the questions. 02:33:24
That you did and. 02:33:27
And the. 02:33:28
The line items that you did, that you broke down for me for miscellaneous and the other things that you did. 02:33:31
Made a big difference and I appreciate everything that you've done. 02:33:36
Thank you. 02:33:39
Cried Jake. 02:33:40
What is the total dollar amount that was cut? 02:33:42
Did you add that up? 02:33:45
The total decrease in prior year from the previous from two months because you said the roundabout? 02:33:48
It's a roundabout with 405,000 coming from the capital projects fund. You cut that whole thing out. 02:33:53
Yes. And then did you add up all of the cuts from the past two weeks just so that it's on the record of what was the total dollar 02:33:59
amount? What was it? 02:34:03
Which fund would you like all of the various? I don't have a total by all of them, but they obviously have to balance. 02:34:08
Like was there a total impact on it of all the cuts? 02:34:18
Yes, we had $190,000 additional in the general fund that we did not have to use prior year fund balance when all was said and 02:34:22
done. 02:34:26
OK. Thank you. I appreciate any cut we can get. 02:34:30
I I don't have any. 02:34:35
Questions or comments? Besides, thank you for your hard work. 02:34:38
I know it's been a rough one. 02:34:41
Yeah. Thank you so much. And we appreciate you working with us and kind of figuring out different ways to still make those 02:34:44
priorities a priority for our residents, but finding different ways to offset costs and pay for them in different ways. So we 02:34:50
really appreciate you've done a marvelous job all. 02:34:55
Our staff has, it's been incredible. 02:35:01
All right, with that I need a motion. 02:35:03
I move to adopt resolution 2024. 02:35:08
2024-24 The Vineyard City Fiscal Year 2024 Dash 2025 budget as presented by. Hey, I have a first time already, can I get a second? 02:35:12
Second Second by Sarah. 02:35:22
I'll do this by roll call Sarah. 02:35:24
Yes, Marty. 02:35:27
Yeah, Yes, Amber. 02:35:29
Hi, Sanjay. 02:35:30
OK. 10.4 was a public hearing that's being postponed to a later date. So I'm going to go ahead and adjourn this meeting. Thank you 02:35:32
for coming. We have reports. 02:35:37
Oh, did you have something in the park? Yeah, it's my only time I get to talk. 02:35:42
I wanted to go through that. 02:35:46
I, you know, you get 30 minutes to calm down and I think that's why it's important to meet in person. 02:35:51
I don't think a Finance Committee, if it was selected like I read through and I don't know if Jamie, you said that of like. 02:35:58
The parameters like the mayor would pick it and then we would have consent and it's the city manager on it and. 02:36:04
A financial person you know. 02:36:10
Whole purpose was to get people outside to have a double check on it. 02:36:12
And as long as. 02:36:16
We can have. 02:36:18
A witness and an advisor, depending on the issue, whether it be RDA that's going to be on the council, then you bring somebody 02:36:20
with that or a CPA. 02:36:23
Or, you know, different people, a strong count person with Eric where it's like, hey, there's somebody there. 02:36:27
I I really want to mend whatever relationship and look for a pathway forward with Eric. 02:36:33
And I know that is with. 02:36:38
Having someone there. 02:36:40
When there's a misunderstanding. 02:36:42
You know, umm. 02:36:44
You can't just. 02:36:45
Write 2 sentence after and say these are the two things that happened in a 60 minute meeting, right? 02:36:47
And a lot of accusations. 02:36:53
Are hurting our city instead of like what did or did not happen. So fighting for I just have a quick question. 02:36:55
Are you making a report to us with something new? 02:37:02
So that's the first thing I wanted to cover. 02:37:06
The second thing is, is on our social media that today we had a lot of people just explode about. 02:37:08
The parking agreement that we passed a couple of weeks ago. 02:37:15
And the social media post detailed a lot of the various things. So then I went in and looked at it. 02:37:19
And I just feel like we missed an opportunity by not negotiating that in. 02:37:24
An open working session where it wasn't advertised and nobody really knew about it. 02:37:29
I wasn't even in the negotiations, it was just the two of you. 02:37:37
And I just, they were popping up different things and I was like, I can't. 02:37:41
Sorry, Marty and Sarah, I could be more clear. You were invited. I went in your place. 02:37:46
No, I was told I couldn't go. No. 02:37:51
Sarah called me and said Jake couldn't go to this meeting. 02:37:54
So I went to the HOA board to negotiate. 02:37:58
And we all discussed it publicly as board. But continue, let's not have a back and forth we're trying to leave. 02:38:02
I thought to try to get into that HR meeting. It looks like you guys disagree. Go ahead, next thing. 02:38:07
And I just feel like in getting so many people's feedback today where it just hit, it was like. 02:38:14
Umm, when we get hot button issues instead of having one or two of us go and meet. 02:38:20
Bringing that back in and saying, hey, it looks like there's this is going to be contentious. 02:38:27
Can we do a working session so that people could come in? 02:38:32
Talk about. I know we did a working session. 02:38:35
But it wasn't advertised as 24 hours. 02:38:37
And I'm just hearing so many people just wish, I wish I would have known because I don't like the agreement. I'm like, are we 02:38:40
still talking about the parking thing? 02:38:43
I'm talking about the culture of doing open. 02:38:47
City Council working session. So I guess what I want to say is Sarah held multiple meetings. This has gone on for two years. There 02:38:50
have been multiple discussions. 02:38:54
They went and did surveys for people. It was publicized. 02:38:59
And I feel like not only was it publicized to the HOA, but the HOA had the ability to publicize it even further. So right. But I 02:39:04
wasn't in the agreement cutting of the terms. It was just the three of no, you were it was public. And when we. 02:39:11
Brought it here. When we do it, we do it before the people. When we, we, we debate and we deliberate before the people and the 02:39:19
negotiations happen here. So if you're not assigned to it, you do those negotiations here. I wasn't in that room, but I made my 02:39:24
negotiations here. 02:39:30
OK, well, and Fred came to speak to everybody. 02:39:36
And then? 02:39:39
It was on the agenda and I asked them to postpone it for two more weeks so everybody could go through it and everybody could talk 02:39:41
about it. 02:39:44
So if you didn't do that, I. 02:39:48
I don't know what to tell you. 02:39:50
I know I did. And I came and heard it and I said it was here and I said please postpone it because I haven't had time to read 02:39:52
through it really well. So you could have done the same thing. I read it. Well, her point is it wasn't 24 hours for the people. 02:39:57
And what I'm saying is, is what I'm saying is, is I read it. 02:40:01
And there were a few HOA leaders that read it. 02:40:06
And I was like, OK, are we happy? But that's a culture of transparency. People know about it. Like if this is important to you, 02:40:09
it's it's important to all of us. 02:40:13
But we all have the opportunity. If you notice there's something that's a hot button item that you know there's going to be a huge 02:40:18
interest in, please, like you utilize social media probably more than any of us. Please let everyone know. 02:40:24
I think we all get kind of disappointed when you come after the fact and then. 02:40:31
I like honestly, I I was texting could we do this in an open meeting? Could we do this? But we did do it in an open meeting, 2 02:40:35
meetings. You're just not acknowledging that. 02:40:40
The same people in those discussions were here before us, having the negotiation with us. 02:40:45
I saw them in the audience. We were able to have the negotiation and had you wanted to do anything different, you could have done 02:40:50
it. Not to mention they had that negotiation before the people. 02:40:54
From multiple, not just these two meters, I will be very clear. Hey, let's stop and and bring those negotiations into a working 02:40:59
session before an agreement as Matt, because what they felt like is the three of you guys caked it. Just the three. They were 02:41:05
like, hey, you three. There is a whole, there was a whole group of and I wasn't there. I made my discussions here in this meeting 02:41:11
and they came back to me and I was like, I'm not even in it. Like I came back and said, are you good with it? 02:41:17
Because you keep saying we can deed the deed, the road over to them. There's lots of options. Here's the thing. That's just not 02:41:24
true. Yeah. And The thing is, you're talking about a culture of transparency. This is how we do it here. This is the culture of 02:41:29
transparency. 02:41:33
I wasn't at the meetings. Amber wasn't in the meetings, You weren't in the meetings because we're not assigned to them. So we make 02:41:38
our negotiations before the public. 02:41:41
That's how we do it. We don't do it in quorums. We do our quorums here before the public so that they can see our negotiations. 02:41:45
Well, I think the feedback that I got was that if they would have had a third vote and I kept saying, well, I'm right here. I 02:41:50
don't know about, well, the mayor is going to vote this way. And I said. 02:41:55
Well let's just do this in open working system, just giving feedback to be able to improve. I am not our attacking, I'm just 02:42:01
saying like I feel like. 02:42:05
Thank you representing what really happened nor are you acknowledged really helpful if you would just go back and acknowledge the 02:42:09
fact that where they weren't allowed to park there. 02:42:13
Overnight now they're allowed to park there. I'm not. There's a small fee, so it would be really, really wise. 02:42:18
For you to go back and acknowledge the win. 02:42:23
And also acknowledge it's a slight improvement and also acknowledge that we did it in the Republic. We had a discussion in the 02:42:27
public. It wasn't 24 hours, so that's not true. We had multiple meetings on this and it didn't start with those two meetings. But 02:42:32
if you remember that public comment, I. 02:42:37
I spoke up right then and said, whoa, nobody knows about this because I was messaging each way, people going, hey, this was 02:42:43
noticed 24 hours again, we postponed it. Two weeks we postponed it. 02:42:48
I didn't eat and and that's the that's the hard part. I love the point that the council said. 02:42:53
Go ahead and notify people and let them know how. You don't have to listen to them. Just saying I it's not that you're just giving 02:43:00
feedback. You're also saying that we are not doing things a certain way. We're disagreeing with you. 02:43:05
And that's OK. We can disagree. Rather than just giving feedback, why don't you explain to the community what the process was so 02:43:11
that they can understand because you're you're there. You know what happened? No, I wasn't in any way. I have no idea what. No, 02:43:18
you know, there was social media where people are saying there was no meeting, there was no public discussion. And you could go 02:43:24
back and say. 02:43:31
We have this on the agenda and then we pushed it out right to make sure to give you plenty of time and then you could take 02:43:37
ownership and say, I'm so sorry that I didn't make it more clear as your Councilman. Not to mention it happened for two years. So 02:43:43
we're going to go ahead and go to the next one. Thank you for sharing. 02:43:49
With you, we like feedback. We disagree with you. That's good. That's good. OK, maybe we'll try it. Maybe next. You know? No. 02:43:56
You're saying we have no culture of discussion, no culture of transparency. We only do things in 24 hours. We don't involve 02:44:02
anybody. All of these things we disagree with you on. It's not that we don't like feedback. We disagree. 02:44:08
The next thing is. 02:44:15
I know in code from the last couple of meetings that. 02:44:18
We the government, the change of government would require. 02:44:21
Our form of government. 02:44:26
Would only allow two of us there because you hold a standing meeting. 02:44:27
Yet you don't attend my meetings with Eric. 02:44:31
And it would be amazing. 02:44:34
Since it's just Eric that if I could know ahead of time. Just some courtesy. 02:44:36
So that I could invite Marty or Amber or Sarah to be there. 02:44:41
Because you don't attend any of my meetings. So I did attend your meeting online for one of them and I did attend a multiple of 02:44:45
your meetings in person. 02:44:49
And the one that the last one, I didn't attend your meeting because I didn't actually see it on my calendar because my calendars 02:44:52
weren't connected. I apologize for not being there, but it wasn't intentional. But anytime that I won't be there or can't be there 02:44:58
and I know I will let you know and other people will be able to. 02:45:03
You know, yeah, I'm with you on your block. You know, it blocks our ability to have more people. Yeah. Well, Sarah, Marty or 02:45:09
somebody said I'd love to be in the same meeting with her. Yeah, absolutely. You guys want a better relationship with Eric. I want 02:45:13
a better relationship. 02:45:17
And I think you guys being in the meeting would improve things. Yeah, I can support you on that. I support you on that 02:45:21
continuously. 02:45:24
The next thing? 02:45:30
I think, I think we're believing it's 10:00. I think I've. 02:45:32
I think I've done for that. 02:45:36
Does anybody have anything else to add? I skipped over the reports, but otherwise I'm going to adjourn. OK Origin, thank you. 02:45:38
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Give me just a second. 00:00:01
Started. 00:00:05
It is still August 28th, 2024. The time is 6:34 PM. 00:00:08
And we are going to get our Vineyard City Council meeting rolling. We'll start with our proclamation. I'll go ahead and read this. 00:00:15
Proclamation 2024, Dash 06. 00:00:20
Is a constitutional proclamation. 00:00:26
Whereas. 00:00:30
September 17th, 2024. 00:00:31
Marks the 237th annual or anniversary of the drafting of the Constitution of the United States of America by the Constitutional 00:00:35
Convention and WHEREAS every anniversary of the Constitution provides a historic opportunity for all Americans to learn about and 00:00:42
to reflect upon the rights and privileges. 00:00:49
Of citizenship and its responsibilities. 00:00:56
And whereas it is fitting improper to record official recognition to this magnificent document in its memorable anniversary. 00:00:58
Into the patriotic celebrations which will commemorate the occasion. 00:01:06
Now, therefore, I Julie, former mayor of the city of Vineyard. 00:01:11
Utah hereby proclaim the month of September 2024 as Constitution Month and urge all citizens to study the Constitution and reflect 00:01:14
on the privilege of being an American with all the rights and responsibilities which that privilege involves. 00:01:22
Go ahead and sign this. 00:01:31
And then we're going to go ahead and move into. 00:01:40
The staff report and today we have our government consultants here with us today and I just wanted to invite them up to give us a 00:01:44
report as we start to move into the legislative session. 00:01:49
Come on up. 00:01:55
Thank you, Mayor council members. 00:02:01
Happy to be with you today. 00:02:04
Give you an update on where things are at the state level. There's a lot of activity. This is when the busy season begins. 00:02:07
Going into the fall. 00:02:13
The Legislature met last week in its interim session. 00:02:15
There's a flurry of activity around a ballot measure. You may have heard about that. 00:02:19
There's a there's a constitutional amendment on the ballot this fall. 00:02:23
That affects how ballot initiatives will be. 00:02:27
Structure going to state of Utah. It should have passed. 00:02:30
That was done in reaction to some state Supreme Court, state Supreme Court ruling. 00:02:35
And and. 00:02:39
The state can address. 00:02:42
Laws are passed by citizen initiatives. 00:02:43
So that's coming forward and it's that. 00:02:46
That in addition to that on the ballot, there's other constitutional amendments and other things will be considered including. 00:02:48
For our deputy, including making the chair of the Constitutional State Office. 00:02:55
So. 00:02:58
Path will be good. 00:03:00
But this is also the time when when the legislative committees start preparing. 00:03:04
Legislative committee bills, which are formal actions by a committee. 00:03:10
If they pass a bill in in August, September, October. 00:03:13
And it passes. 00:03:17
With a supermajority of the committee, then it becomes what's called the committee bill. Those bills skip the can't skip the 00:03:19
committee process in a legislative session. So there's a way to expedite. 00:03:24
Bill. So that activity begins now. 00:03:29
And and and. 00:03:31
There will be several aggressive legislators who will have try to get the bills through committees in advance because. 00:03:33
It's become become such. 00:03:39
Umm, there creates such a backlog during the session it's hard to get things done. 00:03:44
So, umm. 00:03:47
As we see more bills every year in the legislature, the committee bills will become more popular. 00:03:49
We'll be watching for those. Some of those will will. 00:03:54
Could potentially affect the city. 00:03:58
There will be transportation bills, for example. 00:04:00
There will be. There could be. 00:04:03
A bill on tax exec financing, in fact. 00:04:06
This coming session, so we'll watch for those coming forward with me. 00:04:09
Affect the city may be of interest to the city. 00:04:13
And let you know what those are when they're made available. 00:04:15
But as you know, most bills aren't a public until into the legislative session, sometimes late into the legislative session. 00:04:18
So we like them earlier because it's an easier way to get a hold of them. 00:04:24
Also, this is the time when the governor's office, the executive branch, starts preparing their budget. 00:04:28
The governor submits his budget to. 00:04:34
The Legislature every fall. 00:04:37
Usually October. 00:04:39
That's a recommendation of a budget because the legislative branches. 00:04:41
Has the power of the purse, as you know so. 00:04:45
Just a recommendation that the Governors Office prepares for taking feedback from all the executive agencies. Right now that 00:04:47
includes. 00:04:51
Issues like roads and transit and. 00:04:55
Other things that the state pays for. 00:04:58
And so there's. 00:05:02
There will be a formative activity in September and October. 00:05:03
Regarding. 00:05:07
Spending issues regarding. 00:05:09
Probably housing. Probably. 00:05:11
Transportation, probably lots of things that you all want to be aware of and we'll be watching those and. 00:05:13
And. 00:05:18
We'll make you aware of what we know of when we know of it that would have impact on the city so we can have the input early. 00:05:20
It's a lot easier to me things early than to try to change things late. 00:05:26
So, umm. 00:05:30
In addition to that, we've been working. 00:05:32
Umm, with the city, with staff, and with the mayor on. 00:05:35
Some of the regional issues like. 00:05:40
The ongoing discussions with the United Pacific Railroad about realignment of rail lines and how that impacts the region. 00:05:43
There are discussions going on about regional transportation issues that. 00:05:49
That regarding the Olympics, the Olympics. 00:05:53
Transportation plan has been published, but it doesn't include a lot of things that will get attitude overtime. 00:05:58
I'm so old that I was actually working for Senator Bob Bennett. 00:06:04
US Senator Bob Bennett. 00:06:09
Who is an appropriator for the last for the last Olympics? 00:06:11
And there will be. 00:06:14
A lot of money that comes from the federal government to support the Olympics. 00:06:17
And. 00:06:20
Umm, how that gets allocated and how that gets how those appropriations get done. 00:06:21
And where they get done. 00:06:26
Will have a big impact on the state it's. 00:06:29
Big cash infusion for the state and a lot of infrastructure in particular. 00:06:31
Can be done in those periods of time. 00:06:35
There's. So there were conversations, for example. 00:06:38
Going on now about. 00:06:40
The fact that the Provo airport is increasing in its service, it's increasing, including international service. 00:06:41
And moving people from that airport to venues. 00:06:47
Whether it be the ice rink, which will be just. 00:06:50
Up the street or whether the up to Heber Valley. 00:06:53
Or two points N how you move people from that airport efficiently that are here for the games would be discussed. 00:06:58
And what they were very likely to be funding. 00:07:05
Associated with that. And so those conversations are starting now because there's the only thing planning will begin. 00:07:07
Because 10 years will go by fast. So again. 00:07:13
You're in the inner city, being in the middle of Visit Valley and on the transportation corridors. 00:07:16
You'll want to be part of this conversation. So we're watching those and. 00:07:23
Monitoring those as well. 00:07:26
There, there will always be. 00:07:28
A variety of water issues and other. 00:07:31
Things that come up that could affect your city, so we watch for those. 00:07:33
And. 00:07:37
I guess if you have any questions I'm happy to take them, but. 00:07:38
What starts really post Labor Day, things get really crazy. One of the things that we're going to be doing as we move into this 00:07:41
year is we're going to be having legislative review meetings with our government consultants. 00:07:47
So we can start prepping for what we want to see as a council and then we'll bring that back if there's ongoing projects, of 00:07:54
course, like the railroad and our transit and transportation and water and everything that Seth mentioned, but. 00:08:00
Other things that were interested, we'll have those discussions down the line. So any questions? 00:08:07
Just say one for the community. With the constitutional amendments on the ballot, do you have a recommendation? Where? 00:08:15
Voters can go and get more information. 00:08:21
Yeah, well, the Lieutenant Governor's office will have links to. 00:08:24
Probe each side, pro and con the same thing, as published in the Voter Information Guide. 00:08:28
That have been written yet, but they will be. 00:08:33
I can't remember the timeline, they're required well in advance and so. 00:08:35
The if you go to elections that you Gov you'll be able to find links to those. 00:08:39
In addition. 00:08:44
I can promise you there will be no shortage of information. 00:08:45
Sent to you by. 00:08:48
Both sides of all issues. 00:08:50
It'll be election year. 00:08:54
Male. Overwhelming. 00:08:56
Volumes in your mailboxes again. 00:08:58
But some of these issues are are. 00:08:59
Can be pretty important to how things function in the state, especially when they talk about. 00:09:03
Validations and election laws and things like that. 00:09:10
The constitutional landline, so those ballot measures have written. 00:09:12
Pro and cons that get published so those of you they'll be available soon. 00:09:16
Thank you. Yeah. 00:09:20
Any other questions? 00:09:21
Yeah, I have a lot, but I don't know how much time you're gonna give me. We don't have a lot of time for this, but you could take 00:09:23
a few if you have some questions that you want to take offline. I know. Yeah, I'd just like to ask them publicly. And if you could 00:09:28
get back to me, how many different people could we get a list of everyone that you represent currently so that we can look and 00:09:33
check for conflicts of interest? Yeah, you can. It's also that's also public information because we register publicly, so you can 00:09:38
get a lobbyist.utah.gov. 00:09:44
And that's listed there. Our clients are listed there. 00:09:49
All of our previous clients are actually was there, so when you unregister for client it stays there so you can see past clients 00:09:52
as well. 00:09:54
I noticed in the article that it was published by the Solid Tribune through the. 00:09:58
I want to quote this right. 00:10:05
Journalism Project. 00:10:07
That you guys it was disclosed that you guys. 00:10:09
Umm, it was thought by the Bensons to not have your names released and I went to court over the past four years. 00:10:14
And you guys were a subcontractor listed. Why? Why are we fighting to not know that you're connected? I'm sorry when you say you 00:10:21
guys what? 00:10:24
For university. 00:10:28
In particular. 00:10:29
The Big Game Forever Foundation. 00:10:31
You guys were subcontractors and made a total. 00:10:34
20%, it's in the article. My question is, is why are we fighting for four years for the Ryan Benson and States Consulting to hide 00:10:40
the fact that you're one of the subcontractors in that? 00:10:47
Fighting for the Grey wolf. 00:10:54
Well, I'm not sure where you're getting the term hiding, but we're just, I wasn't involved in any of that, so you can't answer 00:10:56
that question. 00:10:59
Taking it to court to the records request to stop it from coming up. I wasn't involved in any of that, so I can't answer your 00:11:03
question of order. I don't know what this has to do with our council. So if you could clarify and. 00:11:09
But this doesn't have anything to do with us, and we've had no. 00:11:16
Can you clarify what you mean? Because I don't see it right now. Yeah, it has to do with how many different people he's 00:11:21
representing and if there's a conflict of interest. And I think you've stated clearly that it's made public. It's online, right? 00:11:27
But as a subcontractor that wouldn't be listed, only the main contractor. It was listed at the register. 00:11:33
You can see the number I was registered for then. 00:11:40
At that time, I was registered for as a subcontractor, yeah. 00:11:42
Hi, Mayor, if. 00:11:46
If the line of question is going to be directed at character and fitness issues, yes, those can be taken to closed session or a 00:11:50
conversation with Mr. Hartman. And I'm happy to have a conversation with you offline about all of these questions I've offered in 00:11:56
the past. Please refrain from any of those questions in this meeting that has anything to do with character or fitness. Thank you. 00:12:02
Any other questions that are relevant to this meeting? 00:12:11
I just like to state for the record that I disagree with the way in which the city approves this. 00:12:15
Just to have it on the record in a nice, kind way. I don't know what you mean by approves this, just having a. 00:12:20
A lobbyist, I don't think it's the approach that they need to. They should have. OK, thank you. All right, thank you so much. Does 00:12:27
anybody else have any other questions or comments? 00:12:31
Thanks for all you do. We appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks. 00:12:36
All right. 00:12:42
That moves us into a closed session. 00:12:44
What we will do is you guys can remain here and our council will leave the room for a closed session and I'm going to have. 00:12:47
And we'll get a motion to go into it. This will be for the discussion of character, professional competence. 00:12:56
Or physical or mental health? 00:13:02
Of an individual. 00:13:04
So I need a motion to go into that. Do I have to restate that? Yes, please. 00:13:05
Just wanted to say it for the public so they knew. 00:13:10
OK, I'm going to go into a closed session immediately in the conference room here at the city offices. 00:13:13
To discuss the character of professional competence or physical or mental health of an individual. 00:13:18
OK, can I get a second? 00:13:23
2nd. 00:13:28
Roll call, Say yes, member. Aye, yes. 00:13:31
Yes, all right. We will be back. 00:13:34
OK. Thank you for waiting and for your patience. 00:13:44
We are going to move on to appointments. 00:13:47
Appointment of a library board member. 00:13:51
We have Diana Cecile here to fill the remainder of Pilar Steel's term as one of our. 00:13:55
Vineyard Library board members. 00:14:03
And she will fill out the remainder of ourselves term and I just need a motion to approve that appointment. 00:14:05
As an alternate for that term, and if you want to come up and say anything, you can. 00:14:14
Do you want to come up and say anything? 00:14:20
OK, come on up. 00:14:22
No, I don't have a lot to say, but thank you for this opportunity and I just love libraries so. 00:14:24
Thank you. Thank you. 00:14:30
All right. Can I get a motion? Yeah. I move to approve the mayor's appointment to the library that, I'm sorry, the Vineyard 00:14:31
Library board as presented. Can I get a second? 00:14:36
Second, all right. First by Marty, second by Sarah. All in favor. 00:14:42
Aye. All right, welcome. Thank you so much for taking the opportunity to serve our community. We appreciate it. 00:14:46
OK. 00:14:53
Should we do it with the Youth Council or in order? 00:14:55
OK, I was thinking we do the youth council and then we just do it all and get pictures all at the same time. 00:14:58
All right. The Youth Council, our executive board had an election and we have a new Youth Council mayor and manager, and so I'm 00:15:04
just going to read your names. 00:15:09
And make that appointment and then our council will vote you in and then we will go ahead and swear you all in and we'll get some 00:15:14
pictures with you. 00:15:17
So let's see, the elections were held on July 15th, 2024 and these are our youth Mayor Aslan May. 00:15:22
Youth Council City Manager Russell Rasmussen. 00:15:31
Youth Recorder. Beckham, SU Fuentes. 00:15:35
Use communications chair Dahlia de la Piedra Youth Services and Beautification Care Morgan. 00:15:38
Preet Youth Council activities chair Darius. 00:15:45
And city recorder Pamela Spencer will swear you guys in I was reading you into youth. OK, I need a I need a motion. 00:15:50
I did. I saw the city recorder saying and I even mentioned Pam. I mentioned all the names written. 00:15:59
I did OK. 00:16:05
All right, Can I get a motion to appoint those youth council members? 00:16:06
I move to a point. 00:16:11
I'm sorry, I moved to approve the mayor's appointments to the Vineyard Youth Council Executive Board as present. Thank you. Can I 00:16:13
get a second, second, second by Amber all in favor? 00:16:17
OK, now we will start our spring and ceremony. 00:16:23
Come on up pad. 00:16:27
YouTube stand up here like I don't have any more. 00:16:28
All right, so Russell and. 00:16:33
Come on up and stand in front of the bear there. 00:16:35
You're gonna repeat that for me? 00:16:41
No, raise your right. Go ahead. 00:16:43
There's your right hand. And then repeat after me. 00:16:46
I say your name. 00:16:49
Having been elected in a. 00:16:53
Pointed to the Youth Council Executive board and appointed Single Library Board. 00:16:54
Having been elected to the library board. 00:17:00
That's OK. 00:17:04
Having been elected and appointed to these Council Executive Board. 00:17:06
You solemnly swear. 00:17:12
That I will support, obey and defend. 00:17:17
The Constitution of the United States The Constitution. 00:17:21
United States and the Constitution of the State of Utah. Utah. 00:17:25
And that I will discharge the duties of my office. 00:17:31
Charged to do with my office with Fidelity. 00:17:34
Thank you. Congratulations. 00:17:38
OK, can we do a picture? 00:17:43
Pictures. 00:17:56
Shoot. Can we? I can't. Yeah. Thank you. 00:18:00
Did you come back? 00:18:10
Thank you. 00:18:19
Diane Russell, if you come over here, I'll have you sign up and we should thank you. 00:18:20
That's why. 00:18:25
All right, that brings us right into our work session. 00:18:36
We're gonna start out with a mobility device and a golf cart. Discussion by Lieutenant Rockwell. 00:18:39
And he'll present some recommended changes or options for our municipal code. 00:18:45
There are. There you are. 00:18:51
I will swap you because you might have to leave. Yes. 00:18:54
OK, we're actually going to move on to. 00:18:57
5.4 the residents on the North Point past discussion for potential opportunity for. 00:19:00
And passes for our residents. 00:19:07
Eric might have to leave a little bit early, so we're going to move this up. 00:19:09
OK, so. 00:19:13
Thank you everyone. This is kind of an exciting opportunity that we have. 00:19:14
We've been doing a little bit of research. 00:19:20
On neighboring cities and. 00:19:22
Every year we do a spring, a spring cleanup, and a fall cleanup, and we bring dumpsters into the city. 00:19:25
And there are some challenges associated with that. 00:19:31
For residents. 00:19:36
You don't always have the thing that you wanted to get rid of that's too large to put in the garbage can. 00:19:38
In the fall or in the spring on those specific dates. 00:19:43
And from a staffing standpoint, it takes a lot of work to get out there and keep that those bins smashed down. 00:19:46
And So what other cities have been doing and not all some some do what we do, but other cities have have. 00:19:52
Worked with North Point to establish a punch pass so. 00:19:59
Every resident in the city. 00:20:03
Gets what we're proposing would be a 2. 00:20:05
A2 punch pass option. 00:20:08
So that at any point during the year, if your dishwasher goes out, you can throw the dishwasher in the back of the vehicle, take 00:20:10
it to the transfer station. 00:20:14
And you use your punch pass and that waves the $12.00 fee. 00:20:19
For the first 625 lbs. 00:20:24
Of trash that you would like to take there that's kind of your large stuff so that you can clean up whenever that's convenient. 00:20:28
And we feel that from a convenient standpoint to residents. 00:20:33
And a convenient standpoint for. 00:20:38
Managing those spring and fall cleanups. 00:20:40
It would be a great option to shift to this. 00:20:44
Punch pass option in lieu of the spring and fall cleanups. 00:20:48
And I would add that. 00:20:53
A couple of small details. 00:20:55
The cost could be incorporated into our. 00:20:57
Our trash collection. 00:21:00
So that the punch path wouldn't cost anything extra for residents. 00:21:01
And the other. 00:21:06
Housekeeping item would be that you would need to. 00:21:08
All residents that have an account for trash collection would need to come to the city. 00:21:10
Grab a physical pass because we would need to do something on it to kind of make it. 00:21:14
Unique. Umm. 00:21:18
But that that would be how that project or process would work. 00:21:20
Yeah. And there's different options. We can lookout with option or opt out. One of the reasons that this conversation came forward 00:21:24
is because. 00:21:28
There are some of the dumpsters that are being over overfilled in the community and it's really difficult to clean them up and so 00:21:31
the idea was to relock those dumpsters. 00:21:36
One of the reasons why it's there is because there was so much dumping happening along the shoreline and in different various 00:21:42
areas where we were trying to say please don't put your couches on the side of the road or down by the shorelines. 00:21:48
And we needed to go pick up trash and then bring it to these areas. But now they're overfilling and they're overfilling 00:21:55
continuously. And even though we do the spring and fall clean up, I think residents are looking for another option. And so we 00:22:01
wanted you to start vetting what that looks like and how to either participate or why you would or wouldn't want to participate. 00:22:08
So if you have any questions or discussion points tonight as you. 00:22:14
Heard from residents or if you have. 00:22:20
Thoughts about how to move into a program like that? This would be a great time to discuss it before we bring it back to a 00:22:22
business item. 00:22:26
I'm torn because I know a lot of residents are constantly texting me throughout the year. 00:22:31
Hey, I've been waiting for the spring cleanup. 00:22:37
So it would be cool to be able to say, oh, you don't have to wait. Like you can load up your truck and then take it. But a lot of 00:22:40
residents. 00:22:43
Like the convenience, that's why they're using our downstairs because they like having it in town. 00:22:46
And. 00:22:51
I'm I'm honestly torn. I think it would be interesting to see the cost difference that possibly you said that you would have to 00:22:53
compare the numbers with. 00:22:56
Or did you say it would be even? 00:23:01
It's probably a little bit more expensive to do the punch pass option, but we could incorporate that into. 00:23:04
Into the fees that we charge already, so it wouldn't come at a. 00:23:11
An extra cost the. 00:23:15
Republic Services. Just, you know. 00:23:17
Spoiler alert. 00:23:19
On our consolidated fee schedule. 00:23:21
Republic Services has has increased their rate this year so. 00:23:24
We're we're proposing a slight increase in our in our trash collection. 00:23:28
And with that slight. 00:23:34
Increase we can incorporate the punch path option into into the fee so that people don't have to pay the extra. 00:23:35
It would otherwise be $24.00. 00:23:41
Is what the city gets billed for those two punches? 00:23:44
Another thing you'll probably need to review is. 00:23:48
If we do lock the dumpsters. 00:23:52
During the times where it's not spring and fall cleanup, what happens if people are dumping couches? Because that's one of the 00:23:55
issues that we're facing is how do we? 00:24:00
Kind of stop them from doing that. And so are there fees associated? Are there signs what kind of? 00:24:05
Ability to do we have to put someone over to observe that situation. Those are some other things that will come back into play in 00:24:11
this discussion. And, and if you would like some feedback, we've we've been discussing those issues as well and what we're 00:24:16
proposing right now. 00:24:21
Is to get all of our dumpsters into compliance with our own city code and have an enclosure for each of those. 00:24:26
And the ones that we want the public to be using will. 00:24:32
We'll keep them open. 00:24:35
And put signage on them that says please don't put. 00:24:36
Large trash. This is for. 00:24:40
Keeping our shorelines clean. You know, day picnic stuff file. 00:24:42
Means toss it in here. 00:24:46
But anything larger than that, please use your punch pass. 00:24:48
Any of our ones that are not intended to be for public use? Where? 00:24:51
You know, near our parts where it's simply a. 00:24:55
It's a dumpster so that our park staff can take empty all the trash cans and put those in the dumpsters. 00:24:57
We will lock the gates when they're not being used, we'll put signage on them and we'll have a camera near. 00:25:03
That says and we'll keep the lids closed. So if you're throwing a. 00:25:09
Couch over an enclosure that's locked onto the top of a dumpster that is closed. 00:25:14
You know that you did something wrong and when someone shows up to give you a ticket. 00:25:18
You know you got caught for the right reason. 00:25:23
And so we'll make it very clear that certain dumpsters are for public use and others are not. 00:25:25
OK, Any questions on this right now or would you like to well, it'll. 00:25:31
I just saw one thing. Did everybody get the Orem City newsletter just recently? 00:25:36
Yeah. Usually it comes with a coupon, right. You get like a postcard. So it had one and it does have, it has a yeah. 00:25:42
A coupon to go? I wonder if you could just instead of a punch bath? 00:25:48
Because needing to come to the city to get a punch pass a little inconvenient. 00:25:52
But if we did. 00:25:56
Like. 00:25:58
Newsletter Spring and fall that had that too. I thought that was a really good idea. 00:25:59
If yeah, if, if, if a physical mailing is taking place then we could that is another way to get them out. 00:26:03
I mean, we just need to make sure that they're an original copy because the city will get billed. 00:26:10
$12.00 each time the transfer station tracks that. 00:26:15
And then they just. 00:26:20
Send a bill to the city. 00:26:22
For each one that is used. So we wouldn't want to make it so that it was something that. 00:26:23
That could be replicated easily in everybody's dump. 00:26:29
You know 100 dumps. 00:26:31
For the year would get thrown into our Billings. 00:26:33
Well, if residents have any comments on this, you can mention it during public comment, but you could also just leave your or 00:26:37
e-mail us and connect with one of our staff members over here and submit your comment and we will incorporate that into what we 00:26:42
are working on and talking about. 00:26:47
Any other questions from the Council? 00:26:53
OK. Thank you so much, Eric. 00:26:56
We look forward to discussing this more. 00:26:58
We'll go back to 5.1. 00:27:00
With our Lieutenant. 00:27:04
I'm going to back this up just a little bit. 00:27:10
I talk too loud to be that close to you. 00:27:12
Good evening. So we put this on the work session tonight for a couple reasons. And we said golf carts and mobility devices because 00:27:16
it's really hard to quantify, you know? 00:27:21
Is it a selective scooter or like bike, moped, go pad, auto cycle, auto driven cycle? I mean there's a hundred different types of 00:27:26
devices out there so. 00:27:30
Mobility device, what we're talking about is. 00:27:34
Things that are like electric or gas powered things self-propelled via vehicles or devices. 00:27:36
Umm, couple things that brought this up. We've had some recent complaints about golf carts. 00:27:41
And even scooters and other things on our sidewalks and trails and roads. 00:27:46
I've had two incidents at the Sheriff's Office recently with golf carts. 00:27:51
We had one run through the fence of Grove Park. 00:27:55
Had another one over on the overpass where somebody's driving a golf cart on the sidewalk. 00:27:58
And a scooter was going the other direction and there was a collision. 00:28:02
We didn't really determine who was at fault because we had different stories on what happened. 00:28:06
We did have that incident. 00:28:10
We also had a video sent to me from one of you about. 00:28:12
Golf cart incident right here on Center St. 00:28:15
Where the golf cart was going eastbound on Center St. Got to the roundabout, didn't even look or yield, just entered right into 00:28:18
the roundabout right in front of a car. 00:28:21
Golf cart ended up going off the side up near the wall and there was a scooter going by at the same time. It was great. 00:28:24
Umm, we've also, I just got an e-mail from a resident who runs in the city about some some conflicts with him running and cars, 00:28:32
but also people using a scooter on the sidewalk or about electric bike cruising really fast on the sidewalk. That was a close 00:28:36
call. 00:28:40
So that's some of the stuff that's brought it up. 00:28:45
The other thing that is in speaking with Brian and Parks, they have some concerns about these devices within our parks, especially 00:28:47
during like soccer games. 00:28:52
Where the soccer game ends and people are driving their golf carts out onto the field or out onto the grass to pick up kids or 00:28:56
whatever. 00:28:59
And it's just kind of chaotic at that time. So we've got some safety concerns. 00:29:02
Also obviously concerned with tearing up the grass or ruining things that would cause them to have to do more maintenance. 00:29:06
So what I'd like to do tonight is just kind of get a feel of where you guys stand on what you'd like to see. 00:29:12
I'm going to go over some of the stuff we already have in place. 00:29:18
And what our current laws are and then whatever you guys recommend, I have some recommendations or some ideas that we could do. 00:29:21
But really, before we get really knee deep or get deep into drafting ordinances, just want to see what is something that you'd be 00:29:27
interested in. 00:29:30
Potentially passing or or at least looking at SO. 00:29:34
I think for me, we could definitely brush up on our main roads and thoroughfares. 00:29:37
I think it's. 00:29:42
Kind of bold to take your golf cart out on a place that's like people are going 4050 mph yeah, yeah. And we'll talk about that. So 00:29:43
right now. 00:29:47
If we're talking about golf carts, golf carts are not allowed on roads and vineyards by state code. State codes. 00:29:52
Says that golf carts cannot be operated on a road, however municipalities can allow them on. 00:29:58
On roads and then again, as long as they're specifying and taking precautions that it's safe. 00:30:03
And specifying when, who and where those can be operated on. 00:30:09
Currently as far as our sidewalks and trails go. 00:30:14
We don't have anything particularly banning a golf cart or any kind of electric device on our sidewalks or our trails right now. 00:30:17
What we have in place is there's no. 00:30:22
Off Hwy. vehicles on those on sidewalks or trails and that state code defines there's three different grades of. 00:30:26
Highway vehicles, but that's more like your 4 Wheelers and your side by sides and your motorcycles and three Wheelers would. 00:30:34
Whatever that would be. 00:30:40
Umm, within our parks, we don't really have anything that says you couldn't, couldn't drive those within the parks right now. 00:30:42
As far as on the grass or even on the sidewalk or trails. 00:30:48
Obviously our park rules, like a Grove park, say you can't have them in the splash pad, but that's not an actual ordinance. It's 00:30:51
just one of our park rules that's that's written on there. 00:30:55
So that's kind of where we stand right now as far as what we have. We do have speed limits in place on our trails of 15 miles an 00:31:00
hour. 00:31:04
Sidewalk doesn't really have that. We have something in place that says you have to be basically driving or doing things safely on 00:31:07
our sidewalks and trails. 00:31:11
As far as safe travel? 00:31:15
We do have hours of operation within our parks and that's pretty. 00:31:18
Common As for all of our parks. 00:31:22
And our code does say trails is included in that. 00:31:24
And we don't really go around enforcing people on a trail after 11:00 PM. Too much so, but. 00:31:27
So that's that's where we are currently. I want to talk a little bit about enforcement of it. 00:31:33
As you guys know, as far as the way we enforce things in the city, generally speaking, for example like parked cars and that could 00:31:37
be towed by law. 00:31:40
Generally, we're not going to just go and tow it as soon as we see it, we're going to. 00:31:44
Run the plate, try to contact the owner, kind of take a more conservative approach of being friendly and trying to get people to 00:31:48
comply before we take such drastic measures as toner vehicle. The same has been true with golf carts and things on our roads and 00:31:53
things like that. We aren't out issuing citations to people driving their golf carts on the streets or the sidewalks and things 00:31:57
like that. 00:32:02
Now if we're doing it's unsafe, we're going to go talk to him and hey, or they got. 00:32:07
Ten kids hanging off the side and it's unsafe. 00:32:12
That's something we're going to talk to him about, but we haven't been issuing citations for that. 00:32:14
Even though technically they can't be on the roads so. 00:32:17
Just to put that out there, how enforcement is going, we can be more, more, we can increase that enforcement, obviously, if that's 00:32:20
the desire of the Council. 00:32:24
Umm, or if we continue to see issues, we could do that as well. 00:32:27
So, umm. 00:32:31
What the preference is in speaking with Brian at parks, if we go over that first and what we'd like to see in the parks is 00:32:33
potentially we could look at no motorized. 00:32:37
Scooters, bikes, golf carts, et cetera within on the grass within the open space of the park. 00:32:41
We can allow continue to allow them to be on the trails. 00:32:46
We could put something in place like they're restricted to designated sidewalks or trails. 00:32:49
They can't be on the grass unless they're parked there and so many feet from a trailer or a sidewalk. We could do something like 00:32:53
that. 00:32:56
Herriman for example. They don't allow them in their open space. 00:33:01
They recently did a post basically showing a. 00:33:04
A bike trail that was worn into the grass and said they're not allowed in the open spaces. 00:33:07
You can't have them there and they have that in their ordinance. Ordinance. 00:33:12
And that's really, in speaking to Brian, the Parks, that's kind of what their desire would be. 00:33:16
Is to try to keep them out of those open spaces within our parks. 00:33:21
Is there a code that says, hey we don't want to hear, but we do want to hear because this community loves? 00:33:26
Yes, so we could specify areas that would it would be allowed. 00:33:32
The same thing goes for. 00:33:35
When we're talking about like others like the streets and stuff for golf carts, we are, we definitely have the ability to say. 00:33:37
Will allow golf carts on any road 25 miles an hour or slower. 00:33:43
At any trail 8 feet or wider, we could definitely do that. 00:33:48
I would. I don't think I'd recommend allowing them on golf course on sidewalks. Sidewalks 5 feet wide, golf carts 4 feet wide 00:33:52
doesn't leave enough room for. 00:33:56
People that took pass safely, we want to be able to have that still still exist on our sidewalks, but we definitely have the 00:34:00
ability that we could restrict it down to that and say. 00:34:04
OK. You can have those in this area, in these parks and we could we could specify that. 00:34:09
For example. 00:34:13
If you I've been searching a lot of other cities on golf carts and. 00:34:15
And all these things. 00:34:18
Very few have ordinances on golf carts right now. Saint George just did pass. 00:34:19
In May where they do allow golf carts on certain streets. 00:34:25
During daylight hours you have to be 16 years of old of age or older to operate the golf cart and then they actually in their 00:34:29
code. 00:34:33
List out the streets that they're allowed on. 00:34:36
Certain neighborhoods and certain areas that they're allowed so. 00:34:39
We could do that. 00:34:42
And we have the ability to say what age we want them to be. 00:34:45
If we wanted to say 16 or. 00:34:49
You know, some areas in other states say you have to be. 00:34:51
You have to have an active driver's license if you're to be 16, but if you're 18 or older, you just have to have an ID to be able 00:34:55
to operate a golf cart. So on a on a city street. 00:34:59
Umm, the other thing we could do that was brought up potentially is if we wanted to require some kind of a course. 00:35:04
That this we could provide. I mean, I could come up with some curriculum and. 00:35:11
Kind of like the state is done with the new OHV course that they make you go through the hard drive a four Wheeler side by side or 00:35:14
things like that. 00:35:17
That's something we could do to increase safety. 00:35:21
Let's see what else I had on here. 00:35:24
Eagle Mountain is another one. I look at them, they don't allow motor vehicles on it within their parks as well and. 00:35:27
Their definition of that includes. 00:35:33
Tote gills, motorcycles, motorbikes, anything like that within their parks, they don't allow that. 00:35:36
And then there was Saint George and Harriman, and there's a few others, but those were the main ones that had pretty clear 00:35:41
definitions. 00:35:44
The only other code that I found that might be relevant to Vineyard is there's several cities that have one that's called low 00:35:48
profile vehicles. 00:35:51
And that's things that are really short, like your. 00:35:54
Mini bikes and your things like that, we're like little, tiny little Jeeps you can buy. They're less than so many in so many 00:35:57
inches off the ground. 00:36:01
They have codes for those that we can look at adopting so. 00:36:05
What questions do you have? What do you what do you guys think would be appropriate? What do you think that the residents would be 00:36:08
on board with that we can at least look at start? 00:36:11
Down a path of drafting an ordinance. I I specifically think umm. 00:36:15
In regards to bed. 00:36:21
The electric vehicles on the grass. 00:36:23
I think that's a really good rule, except. 00:36:26
I think a lot of people have expensive vehicles that they don't want to leave, you know, 50 feet away from them while they're 00:36:29
watching their soccer game. 00:36:33
Like umm. 00:36:37
I think there's a concern of that some of these electric bikes are really nice. 00:36:38
And people aren't going to feel comfortable setting them off to the side. 00:36:43
And they're in the middle of the field. Do you have any thoughts towards that? 00:36:47
So we could designate a parking area and put in racks if we wanted to, but obviously they would come. There would be an expense to 00:36:50
that. 00:36:53
But we could look at and and Brian actually did bring up is there could we do, hey, there's our designated parking area. The only 00:36:57
concern we brought up with that is if we said, OK, the designated parking area is over by the tennis course, for example. 00:37:02
Well, how many people are actually going to utilize that if they want to be over? 00:37:08
A soccer game on the Far East side of the grass field. 00:37:11
I don't know how that would work, but we could definitely look at parking areas, designated ones, and restrict those vehicles to 00:37:14
be there. 00:37:17
Interesting. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. 00:37:22
I like looking at the busy roads. 00:37:25
I like the idea of finding where we don't want it, where we do want it. I thought those opportunities with Saint George and 00:37:27
Harriman open space was good. 00:37:31
I'd be interested to find out what happens if we lowered the age. Are there suddenly different liabilities that are put on us for 00:37:37
lowering in age for drivers or do we just not talk about it? Liability is a JV question. 00:37:42
So this is where it gets a little bit complicated because. 00:37:50
We're talking about a lot of different vehicle types. 00:37:55
You you now see electric skateboards that have a handheld control and can go at a pretty high speed but. 00:37:58
And interaction with that kind of vehicle is really different than an interaction with the golf cart that weighs a lot more. 00:38:07
Takes up a lot more space and so. 00:38:13
One thing you could do is tailor your rules. 00:38:16
On the the vehicle type. 00:38:19
I think when you're talking about the parks, you're. 00:38:21
Concerned about? 00:38:25
Busy times when interaction with an electric vehicle and people walking. 00:38:26
Can be difficult. 00:38:31
And then the other thing you're dealing with is just damage to city property, but it's difficult to maintain if you have. 00:38:32
If the field flat and somebody's taking. 00:38:39
Golf cart across that's going to damage the grass. 00:38:43
So specifically with golf carts. 00:38:46
With if we were to say. 00:38:51
I'm just throwing out a number, I'm not suggesting it. You're saying like oh 12 enough is fine on a golf cart. Does that make us 00:38:53
liable when a 12 year old is? 00:38:58
Going on a golf cart, Before you answer my question, just to clarify, I think people are going to let their young children drive 00:39:02
golf carts and they I don't. 00:39:08
I think enforcing this would be really hard. 00:39:13
That's great. So liability in Utah is? 00:39:15
Varied In some states, liability is if you're more than 50% responsible, you're fully responsible. 00:39:20
In Utah, liability can be shared among a number of different entities. 00:39:27
And cities can have liability. 00:39:31
The city's liability is reduced a little bit by the Governmental Immunity Act. There's procedures and then there's a per incident 00:39:34
and a per individual cap. 00:39:39
On damages. 00:39:45
So, uh. 00:39:46
You would certainly want to consult with your insurance provider to get their input on this because it will have an effect on 00:39:47
premiums. 00:39:51
If you do it. 00:39:56
As it relates to driving age and the type of vehicle and where those vehicles are allowed to drive. 00:39:57
I think we need to look at that carefully. 00:40:03
You know, before you make those decisions, it may be that you say. 00:40:06
It's safe for. 00:40:10
Younger than 16, teenage driver to operate a golf cart on trails and sidewalks of a certain size, but not on roads where they're 00:40:13
going to mix with. 00:40:18
Vehicular traffic and those kinds of things. 00:40:24
And then I guess the other thing I would strongly urge is when you make these decisions, you do want to look to. 00:40:27
Established design standards. 00:40:34
For these kinds of vehicles, there are a couple of different places that you can go to where those. 00:40:37
Standards would be acceptable, but the way I think of it on my mind is. 00:40:43
It's OK to be on the cutting edge. We don't want to be on the bleeding edge. 00:40:47
And so we'd like to follow what somebody elses. 00:40:50
Or what a more national organization has blessed in terms of design and what kind of vehicles can safely operate there. 00:40:55
Before we say that's OK within the city. 00:41:01
But I think you can get to a place where. 00:41:05
If you want to allow. 00:41:08
People younger than 16 to operate certain types of vehicles. 00:41:11
On where they're not mixed with automobile traffic. 00:41:17
That you probably can do it safely as long as you make sure the facilities are on or within established design standards. 00:41:21
So as far as enforcement goes, since we can't do it anyway, what if we just picked up enforcement on our main roads and then put 00:41:28
signs on our park and updated our park policy? I mean, the real reason why I see this being effective is that we wanted to allow 00:41:33
for it. 00:41:37
In the downtown, I see this being something where they want to maximize this type of usage and they want to make all vehicles 00:41:43
accessible. So they need to build their codes to a certain size. And this is where we suddenly have the ability to have leverage 00:41:48
and say if you're going to do this, you have to put in this easement and things like that. And I could see that being meaningful. 00:41:53
But otherwise, wouldn't we just update our policy and enforce some core routes? We could definitely increase enforcement when we 00:41:59
see them on our on our bigger. 00:42:04
Business roads, especially roads 30 miles an hour faster. 00:42:09
The state code basically says the municipality shall provide sufficient parameters regarding the operation of a golfer or. 00:42:13
On A to ensure public safety. 00:42:20
That's the way the state code reads that we have to ensure you know sufficient parameters to do that. 00:42:23
I will tell you the two incidents that I talked about, the fence and then the scooter and the golf cart. 00:42:28
One driver was 15, one was 14. 00:42:32
Not that that's indicative of, you know, widespread, but those two incidents, that's how old my 10 year old favor 8 year old 00:42:35
neighbors. But I think to be to be transparent, I think Parks is really interested in as far as timeline goes. 00:42:42
Trying to get something done quicker as far as keeping enough the open space areas. So I think that may be a. 00:42:50
Higher priority and. 00:42:55
As far as what their their desire to do. 00:42:57
If we want to take a little more time, as far as the rest of you know, on the streets or sidewalks or trail. 00:42:59
We could definitely spend some time designating certain areas where we would want them. 00:43:04
And kind of come back with, hey, this is what we think would be acceptable. 00:43:08
OK. I feel like if you need to do something quick, I even feel like we could just update our policy for certain areas. Could we 00:43:11
make a clarification and hear me out, Brian? 00:43:16
I care about your grass. 00:43:22
What if people were to Could we allow people to walk? 00:43:24
Their bikes, their walk, their scooters on the grass and I would say a hard festival of no golf carts on the grass, but. 00:43:27
I just worry that. 00:43:34
I want families to be able to. 00:43:36
You know, feel like they're having their. 00:43:38
Property and being able to keep it. Feel like you know somebody that owns an electric scooter. 00:43:41
I may or may not have driven my electricity. 00:43:48
Yeah. No, I think that's a great point to. 00:43:52
To bring up, there's a number of. 00:43:55
Residents that have been coaching for us for. 00:43:57
Years that I know have some of those vehicles that are using them. 00:44:00
There's just been a number of residents that have expressed concern. 00:44:05
And seeing near accidents. 00:44:09
Umm, so I do think I don't know what the solution is to that, so I want to think about that a little bit more. 00:44:12
Of umm. 00:44:19
I think I. 00:44:21
Go ahead. I think walking a vehicle, just like an elementary school, you're allowed to bring your bike to the you ride your bike 00:44:22
to the property, and then you walk your bike in the rest of the way. 00:44:27
And I feel like walking an item is safer. I don't know if that will solve the grass issue. 00:44:31
You know, and so, but I. 00:44:38
I think I think it's safe to walk something. My recommendation might be that you go back and work on some quick policy for 00:44:40
internal things like that. And if we need to watch things for accidents, we just do it on our main roads. 00:44:46
But I think long term we could start working on something because we're going to need this, I think, for our larger structure for 00:44:52
the whole city. So this is an important conversation long term. 00:44:57
Do you feel like that? 00:45:02
Yeah, good way to move forward right now, because that way you could move faster if you needed something faster that you could 00:45:03
bring back to us quickly. 00:45:06
I mean, each council member can send their concerns or their experience. 00:45:10
With these vehicles. 00:45:14
I'm pro golf cart and they're designed to be driven on grass, so they don't really do damage on grass. That's why they're designed 00:45:17
that way, right? 00:45:21
But the damage is. 00:45:25
Obviously it's a concern with certain types of vehicles, right? And some golf carts. 00:45:28
I think what kind of tires they put on them and if they soup them up a little bit. Some of the golf carts you see are not the golf 00:45:33
carts you drive on your golf course. They're a little bit different, but the other one is more of the safety too, I think. 00:45:39
I actually was at the National League of Cities and they were talking about how children's brains develop at an earlier age, the 00:45:47
sooner you can get them driving. 00:45:51
And how cities should promote early driving 910 and 11 years old because it helps them kind of figure it out. I thought that was 00:45:56
pretty crazy because. 00:46:01
I learned how to drive a tractor at 11 years old with a Baylor in the back without. 00:46:06
Lights on by moonlight, so but. 00:46:10
I think we want to be pro, but I think one adjustment where you could police that is if there are accidents, you're giving a 00:46:14
ticket and you've helped, I think. 00:46:19
That's hard of like give give a citation, not give a citation. But I think if it's a clear delineated of like what it is, hey, we 00:46:23
are going to be pro but parents if there is an accident. 00:46:28
There will be a citation that goes out, so teach your kids to. 00:46:33
Any better and then #2? 00:46:37
100% agree with getting golf carts off of the sidewalks like. 00:46:39
That's where I think your problem is, is it? 00:46:44
Two people going separate ways and it's like. 00:46:47
This one you need to be in the road. 00:46:50
It's a slower Rd. but you're still on the sidewalk type thing so if there's. 00:46:52
Delineation on a map that you say like hey, do not be on the sidewalk here. 00:46:56
Because it is such a slow street, right? 00:47:02
And then lastly I met with. 00:47:05
Strong Towns? What's his name? My buddy last night about Strong Towns. 00:47:08
And it's actually there's a couple of videos about how. 00:47:12
People won't agree, but the golf carts actually slow down traffic. 00:47:16
Because people will see it and they'll get our cars to drive even though they only go 2025 miles an hour. That's kind of what we 00:47:20
want them driving anyway. 00:47:23
In terms of where it's going and so. 00:47:27
There's study after study that it. 00:47:30
If they're not there and you know you have the visualization. 00:47:32
And it's wide open. They're just gonna drive like crazy, so. 00:47:36
Those are my feedback of adjustments. Can I just add, I assume Jordan? Yeah, Jordan, this is also a good opportunity, Jordans on 00:47:40
the bike Commission to collaborate with the bike Commission. They're looking for opportunities to add more facilities for bike 00:47:45
parking and things like that. 00:47:50
So they might be able to give you some good insight. Can we have them lead it? Because he's great. 00:47:55
Sure. 00:48:00
So as far as enforcement goes, just everyone's that you understand. 00:48:04
The only thing I can issue a citation for right now is if they're on the streets, right? That's the only as far as a golf cart 00:48:07
goes, not sidewalks, not a sidewalk 'cause we don't have an ordinance against that in the state. You can't wait till they. 00:48:13
Break a rule and get onto the road. Be like hey. 00:48:19
I could. If it's not written, it doesn't exist, OK? 00:48:23
Hopefully the written rules. So yeah, the state law is no roads. I think we could write a pro golf course absolutely kind of thing 00:48:27
where we keep them off those main roads and we keep them off sidewalks, but we allow them to be on paths and. 00:48:33
I like that idea for a long term approach and my thought in speaking about it, I can get with the same as far as like that, like 00:48:39
you're talking about building standards where they're allowed whether or not and work with him on that as well. So. 00:48:45
But I also think if we drafted something that's code of like when you do see it and it is a minor that we have some sort of 00:48:51
paperwork of like. 00:48:55
Hey, you're. 00:49:00
A parent would love to know that my kid is doing such because a lot of times we'll get some things of like this bad behavior that. 00:49:01
A visit by you is very helpful for parents when we encounter juveniles. Yeah, it's very helpful. We always speak well as long as 00:49:09
we can get ahold of parents, we always right and and just advising people to contact you with take pictures, videos or whatever 00:49:13
to. 00:49:18
Solve it. 00:49:23
I do. I think it's smart if they're going to be under 16 that we have some kind of city certification. 00:49:24
Because we have that in UI. I think it was 14. They decided it was farmland. 00:49:29
Right. And everybody wrote their four Wheelers everywhere, but this is. 00:49:33
This is more congested. 00:49:36
And I feel like if you want to give that right to somebody under 16, they should go through the city certification. 00:49:38
And we can decide what that age is, if we want it to be 12 or. 00:49:44
14 right, I think. 00:49:48
We can just do what the need is and reach out to the community, but I think that's. 00:49:50
I think that's really important because I think when the younger they are. 00:49:54
Right. Maybe the more reckless. 00:49:58
Plan B, right. And if they go through the certification, then they understand. 00:50:00
Right. The risks involved in their parents sign off that they get that certification. I think that would be really valuable. And 00:50:04
Brian, is it the entire grass field that you're worried about or? 00:50:09
Could they bring him onto the perimeter around the? 00:50:15
The sidewalk. 00:50:18
Yeah. So one thing that we talked about Holden and I was. 00:50:19
We just have something in place to where. 00:50:23
They can just park it within, you know, 5 to 10 feet of the trail. 00:50:25
And then they can just walk the rest of the way. 00:50:30
Because one thing I didn't mention too is it's also kind of a space thing. 00:50:33
We have about 25 feet between fields and you've got parents on both sides. 00:50:37
And so there's really not a whole lot of room for a golf cart or. 00:50:42
Or bikes and things without obstructing. 00:50:46
I guess. 00:50:49
For people to walk, they have to go around and then they're. 00:50:50
******* into people. 00:50:53
But they could park near the games. It's not. 00:50:55
Far into the field yeah. And I I'm just a little worried that if we. 00:50:58
Allow people to even just walk. 00:51:03
These vehicles on. 00:51:06
It'll be a little bit hard to enforce because. 00:51:07
There's other incidents where say for example movie at a park and there's. 00:51:10
Dirt bikes that are driving through the field. 00:51:14
Right during the middle of the movie. 00:51:18
Umm, and or there's just, you know. 00:51:20
Golf carts that are just zooming and there's games going. Kids are running around. 00:51:24
It just I see a lot of room for potential accidents. 00:51:29
Umm, but I do want to be open to. 00:51:34
Solutions to that so. 00:51:37
I'd be happy to also reach out to a resident that I know has a golf cart to kind of get. 00:51:39
Their thoughts on maybe what a happy medium would be. 00:51:45
And see if we can figure out a solution that. 00:51:48
Let's move forward with that. You go ahead and work on that policy and bring it back in a week and how long your term discussion 00:51:50
council, if you have additional thoughts on this, please make sure you're emailing Eric and copying these guys in. So thank you. 00:51:54
This is really helpful. 00:51:58
OK. All right. We'll move on to our agenda management and our city recorder. Pam will discuss. 00:52:03
This item. 00:52:10
This item is part of my life. 00:52:17
Oh yeah, I'd love to discuss it with everybody first. I just, I just. 00:52:20
Umm, I went through and I. 00:52:26
Figured out how I put together an agenda and so I did this. 00:52:29
This whole paper I split everything up. 00:52:33
On it in our timeline and everything that we do. 00:52:36
But I thought I'd give another little bit more background on this is that state code requires us. 00:52:40
In our open public meetings at. 00:52:46
Have an agenda, and that agenda should be have. I cannot say this word reasonable specificity. 00:52:48
To notify them. But what is on the agenda so that people understand what's on the agenda? 00:52:55
Itself the agenda. 00:53:01
Has to have the date, time, place. 00:53:05
They were holding it and then. 00:53:07
Just a synopsis kind of of what? 00:53:09
Is going to be discussed. 00:53:13
On the agenda, can't talk about anything. 00:53:15
That's not on the agenda unless there's emergency. 00:53:18
Those types of things. But we're not going to go into all that because it's Jamie's job to teach open public meetings and because 00:53:21
I assigned it to him. 00:53:25
Not today, though. 00:53:30
But anyway. 00:53:32
There's noticing requirements that go with agendas. 00:53:34
And so. 00:53:38
In the state code with no less than 24 hours to post an agenda unless it's an emergency and there's only. 00:53:40
Certain things that might be considered an emergency, but. 00:53:46
The. 00:53:49
So that that no less than 24 hours public notice is kind of what we we hit. 00:53:54
And I can be honest with you, and I know you're pushing for a. 00:53:59
Publishing them earlier. 00:54:04
But that 24 hours is a little stressful in our department. 00:54:08
And so I have always pushed. I would love to do the day before. 00:54:12
We tried Friday before. 00:54:17
Those types of things. But it was, it's always something comes up, there's an issue and we're always amending things. 00:54:19
And I reached out to some other cities. 00:54:26
So I'm not going to go through everything I wrote up but. 00:54:29
We can reach out to you on some other things, but I reached out some other cities to find out when they're doing them. 00:54:32
Cedar Hills is the Friday before Tuesday meeting, Drapers Thursday before the Tuesday meeting. Eagle Mountain was Friday before 00:54:36
Tuesday meeting. So you can see they're kind of all over the place and then. 00:54:41
The fun one was was Orem and then she said they do it. 00:54:47
Like just a couple days before the meeting, but. 00:54:53
I can't remember when anything's. I don't know why I didn't put them in here. 00:54:56
Anyway, but then I looked at their website and their postings are all over the place. 00:54:59
So we're at least consistent, right? 00:55:04
On that. 00:55:07
Some of the concerns that they had with posting too early, they agreed that seven days was way too was too soon. 00:55:09
And they said some of the concerns that they had with it was that. 00:55:16
You posted 7 days and then things come up. 00:55:20
That then you're amending your agenda and he said. It just doesn't look good and it confuses people. 00:55:24
As to what's on the agenda, if you mend it once and then you meant it three times so. 00:55:30
Something like that. I would say we mind at once and that's it. You know, maybe that's within that 24 hours if we need to amend it 00:55:35
or something. 00:55:38
Regardless of when you guys decide you want us to try to post these agendas. 00:55:42
Some of the things that I want to bring up though is to why I wouldn't recommend the full 7 days. 00:55:47
Is this like, for instance, when we have a public hearing where it needs to go to Planning Commission first? 00:55:54
Then it goes to council the next week. 00:55:59
For consideration, would you have one of those on the agenda tonight? 00:56:02
Well, they don't have time to get that report ready before they have the Planning Commission meeting. 00:56:06
So having the report ready, they need to have time to if Planning Commission has any additional recommendations to get those 00:56:11
reports updated. 00:56:15
And into the agenda. 00:56:18
Packet so that you guys have all the information that you need. Those packets are for the councils. 00:56:21
Use therefore the Council so they can. 00:56:27
See what's being changed? 00:56:30
There's certain things you can't approve without a resolution of ordinance in front of you and the. 00:56:32
Supporting documents that go with it and to have some of those to rush them to get those done. 00:56:37
Umm, you know, it could be a little frustrating for those trying to do it. We also have posting deadlines for those public 00:56:43
hearings that I was talking about. 00:56:47
Like budget is 7 days out. 00:56:52
So I'll be posting public hearing the same day of posting the agenda for it. 00:56:54
Land use is 10 days and then is 10 days. 00:56:58
But there are other ones that there's other ones that are different days and so it's. 00:57:03
Kind of crazy how we can. 00:57:08
How we would work things out so we may know some things ahead of time, but we might not. 00:57:10
Before those seven days. So those are some other things that. 00:57:15
There's just a few of the things I wanted to bring up on that. 00:57:20
The other question was. 00:57:23
Having if we could have the fiscal impact on. 00:57:25
Consent. 00:57:29
We've talked about it, we said. 00:57:32
Well, it's not impossible. We'd have to go figure out what that is. But there are issues with having it there when we can have it 00:57:35
in the staff report where they can spell it out. It's already in the staff report. 00:57:40
You can look at the staff report if you're not finding it. 00:57:45
Please make sure you're reading the reports. 00:57:49
Because that's where it really should be. 00:57:51
The other, the other concern on it is that some of those fiscal impacts are. 00:57:54
Complex. And so there's there's going to be several numbers in there. 00:57:59
And they're not going to be totals that necessarily that you could put. 00:58:03
An agenda, because they might be if this happens then this, and if this happens then this. 00:58:08
Would be the impact and so putting that as a. 00:58:13
On our on the headline in the. 00:58:16
The consent might be a little. 00:58:19
Wordy when we've already gotten the staff report. So that's just the recommendation. What if you just put the word fiscal impact 00:58:21
so people knew? 00:58:25
It like this has a fiscal impact because not to make sure everything has a fiscal impact. 00:58:29
Well, if that's what you guys want. 00:58:34
Would you like it like? 00:58:38
Like right in the title. 00:58:39
So that people are going to look for it. Sir, what's your thought on it? 00:58:41
On the last agenda there were there were consent items and there were just there was just a simple fiscal impact. 00:58:46
Amount and that was really helpful. But if it's more involved. 00:58:51
Then maybe just put, you know? 00:58:55
That it's more involved in the other. 00:58:57
Other documents to get information that would be helpful. I think you're OK if it's just in the staff report, right? You don't. 00:59:00
But just to let you know that there's a fiscal impact. 00:59:07
On the consent item or do you want it? I mean, would that make sense? 00:59:10
I guess because the consolidated fee schedule and budget. 00:59:15
Might be the only other ones. 00:59:19
Any budget items you know business item would. 00:59:21
State that it's for a budget so you would know to look for this document explains it so if it was just put in their fiscal impact 00:59:23
for like contracts and good awards and. 00:59:28
And different things like that for the fiscal impact for? 00:59:34
Because you also for your agenda, talk about how you guys operate your executive meetings and vet these things in those days. 00:59:38
You're talking about a staff meeting that we have, OK. 00:59:47
So what happens with the agenda? I can just go in a little bit detail there. So people submit items with our new agenda management 00:59:51
software it has. 00:59:56
Saved me many and Tony, now Tony, many hours of work of changing and moving things around. So that's great to throw that out 01:00:00
there. 01:00:04
Plug for that but. 01:00:08
So staff are asked to put in their agenda items, then that goes through. 01:00:10
A verbal approval process right now. 01:00:16
With the city manager and the mayor. 01:00:18
And then they they put in their staff report and they put in any attachments they might have. But we do discuss it. 01:00:23
The day before Council meeting, which we could probably change that. 01:00:30
If you guys at some point time decide. 01:00:33
That you want to put some kind of a policy in as to when we do things. 01:00:36
But umm. 01:00:40
We discussed those agenda items, what's going to happen with those agenda items so the staff understands. 01:00:42
What's going on with them? 01:00:48
And so we do discuss them during our staff meeting before council meeting this Tuesday before the council meeting. 01:00:50
So that, umm, yeah, no item goes on an agenda without an approval. Well, and the reason why I ask you to mention it is because. 01:00:58
Oftentimes some of the amendments that come are because you're reviewing it, you're getting ready to post it, and then people find 01:01:06
out what is needed in order to complete the agenda item, which causes a change or an amendment. 01:01:12
And that is? 01:01:19
Because those meetings are so close to each other, that's back. That's what's been a little bit complicated. We could probably do 01:01:20
them. 01:01:24
You know the Tuesday before. 01:01:28
That, but still, there's always things that come up that. 01:01:31
Say, hey, we've got a deadline. 01:01:35
And so let me go on this agenda. 01:01:37
So you're gonna have things that come up. 01:01:39
The day before the council meeting. 01:01:42
And says, hey, this has got to go on the agenda. We've had that several times. 01:01:45
So I mean, this is just the way it runs, it works. I think the point is, is that if that happens, though, we're happy with having 01:01:49
it wait for the 8 days or 15 days so that the citizens have a right to be there. But sometimes we have deadlines we have to meet. 01:01:57
And so we can't wait those that extra time. If it's a state deadline or a county deadline and they've just sent it to us, then 01:02:05
we're going to need to put it on that agenda. 01:02:10
In order to. 01:02:16
Meet that deadline so we're not losing out on a contract or funding or. 01:02:18
Or different things like that. 01:02:22
That just. 01:02:24
Sometimes they're a little slower, giving things to us. 01:02:25
Sometimes we have developers. I mean, we don't have some of that now on our agenda. 01:02:29
But we would have developers that need to get your red lines back to us, get your. 01:02:33
It's the correct way. Two weeks. 01:02:37
Sometimes it costs them money if they wait. 01:02:40
And so that is, that's another issue, but they would learn our process, right? 01:02:43
I mean they go at our speed, not we go to them. 01:02:47
No, but like I said, there are some things that there aren't going to wait. The state's not going to wait. The county's not going 01:02:50
to wait. Yeah, and we don't have as many developers. 01:02:54
Stuff anymore because I go through the DRC committee Planning Commission, yeah, yeah, the report state there's they cannot wait 01:02:59
those extra two weeks you're going to cost the developer money. 01:03:05
And that's not going to be good if we have to wait. 01:03:11
Yeah, yeah, there's some codes we have to follow. 01:03:17
Yes. 01:03:23
OK, So what would your recommendation be Pam if not 7 days? 01:03:24
If we can make it work, you know, I send you guys out of the draft on Fridays. 01:03:30
So I don't know how I would send you out a draft if we posted them on Fridays. 01:03:35
But that would be up to you guys. 01:03:41
But posting on Mondays. 01:03:44
Would be helpful as well. I mean that's 48 hours before the meeting they were born. 01:03:46
So. 01:03:52
If we did the Thursday, that Thursday would be a crunch for depending on what's on the agenda, but. 01:03:54
I mean, it is up to you guys. 01:04:01
Council wants it sooner, I think where you feel like it's reasonable, that's reasonable to me. We obviously do work sessions for 01:04:04
things so that the public can see it two weeks before and then we bring it back and we work that process in this year, which I 01:04:09
feel like is working really well. 01:04:15
If we feel as a council we need to continue something, we can always continue it so we have protocols for making sure that there's 01:04:21
enough public discussion. 01:04:25
But if there's a reasonable timeline, you feel like you want a bit sooner and you wanted to post on Mondays and you wanted to not 01:04:30
do it 24 hours in advance, and you think Thursdays. 01:04:35
Today I think. 01:04:39
Whatever you think is meaningful because I know agendas are hard and they take time and there's a lot of people that work on them 01:04:41
and being someone that has to go through it and see my process and make sure I'm meeting the council's process and then going 01:04:47
through and making sure we're making the legal process. And then your process is a. 01:04:53
It's quite a task actually. 01:05:00
And so if you feel like there's opportunity. 01:05:02
I would love you to tell us and if you feel like there's not, I would love to watch the I I, I think I mean right now and maybe we 01:05:06
we work it in slower, but if we made it so that they're posted on Mondays. 01:05:13
And then we reevaluate it. 01:05:19
To see what Friday would look like for the Wednesday before, I wouldn't go any further than that. 01:05:22
Your biggest issue is. 01:05:28
Just if we were needing to amend anything in the meantime, I think is what you're going to be. You've got. 01:05:32
Holidays and stuff. So maybe we need to post a little earlier or it might. 01:05:37
Then I'll go a day later or something around holidays. 01:05:41
Different things like that, but those are some things we can work around. 01:05:44
OK, Yeah. So just whatever you guys decide you want to do. 01:05:48
If you have any comments, no, it makes sense. It makes sense to me. 01:05:53
To not do it too far ahead, I think that would be equally frustrating if you did it seven days ahead and then there were 3 or 4 01:05:58
amendments. 01:06:01
Right, I think that would be more frustrating. 01:06:05
And having to wait. 01:06:08
If you could do it Monday, I love the draft on Friday. 01:06:10
If it's not too stressful, I think Monday would be. 01:06:14
Great. 01:06:17
And just for, for me, Sarah, if she was gonna do it Monday, I would need it Thursday. 01:06:20
In order to get all of my things met, yeah, we could talk on Thursdays rather than Fridays. 01:06:26
And then send send out a draft Friday. 01:06:32
Friday I have to do my review again and then we could do it Monday. 01:06:35
But half the people aren't working on Monday and then Friday. 01:06:40
And they only work until 12. 01:06:44
But anytime we could do, it's going to. 01:06:46
But sometimes we take Monday to fix any issues and to have any legal discussions. 01:06:48
So we'd have to sift it back. I mean, I would love to post even by noon on Mondays if it's at all possible. That would be your 01:06:53
ideal. 01:06:58
I can give you an example, and I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus or anything, but this just happened. 01:07:02
Yesterday we're posting the agenda. 01:07:07
I look up putting it on the bulletin board, and I discover that there's a public hearing notice I didn't know about. 01:07:10
And so I'm hurrying and justice throwing it on. 01:07:16
And they were continuing it anyway. 01:07:19
But I didn't know about it because I've been on vacation. I was probably not allowed to go on vacation again, so. 01:07:22
There you go, now you know. But anyway, so it's just an example of issues of posting. 01:07:28
That so late in the day on a Tuesday. 01:07:36
That's been my stress through. 01:07:39
11 years, well and that is stressful and anyway we can make that stress go out Monday, we would just have to work together. 01:07:41
I guess Sarah or anybody just because I interrupted your comment. Sarah, my thing would be. 01:07:49
I think we should shoot for that. 01:07:54
And then do our best to kind of start building a process to it. And then before formalizing anything, just to learn how it works. 01:07:56
Yeah. And start doing that with the. 01:08:01
With the next one and we'll add the fiscal impact on anything that's on consent. 01:08:06
Or if maybe it's not clear on a business item? 01:08:11
That's one thing that would be helpful because I know that we're going to have last minute. 01:08:15
Umm, change amendments and there's gonna be circumstances that are unavoidable, and I know that'll put us down to that 24 hour 01:08:20
mark. 01:08:23
And even different with emergency things that qualify as an emergency, but I was wondering if we could just make a policy of a 01:08:27
standard that emergency last minute? 01:08:32
Items won't be consent that they will actually have to be something that's itemized for a business item then silver for discussion 01:08:36
and action. Yeah, and I think. 01:08:41
I think this is an interesting thing because at any point you see something on consent that you don't want on there, just pull it 01:08:46
off. Sometimes we just do administrative things on there because otherwise the agenda can become. 01:08:52
Complex and it becomes too much of things that. 01:08:59
This will be like a 2 second thing that we don't actually need on the business item. And so if you see something that looks 01:09:02
complex that we missed that should have gone on business. 01:09:06
My recommendation would just be to pull it off because administratively this is just to conduct proper timing on the agenda. 01:09:11
Yeah. And and the the other thing is, is that. 01:09:18
Almost. 01:09:22
Almost anything can go on consent, like the mayor said. 01:09:24
And you can pull it off and talk about it so. 01:09:28
That's something to just. 01:09:31
Think about because what we're doing and reason, we're putting them on consent. 01:09:33
Is so that you really only have to do 1 motion on things you don't. 01:09:36
Really, we feel that doesn't need discussion. 01:09:40
And so but if you. 01:09:44
See something in there like myself, then just you can pull it off of themselves. I don't think that's an issue at all. Maybe it's 01:09:46
more of a training issue because I think that as a new council member. 01:09:51
It was a little bit overwhelming. 01:09:57
To see the consent items and feel kind of this pressure, like, OK, everyone just voted for it. I better say aye. But. 01:09:59
If it's a last minute item. 01:10:06
And maybe as a new council member, they don't fully always recognize what their role is. If it wasn't on your draft agenda and 01:10:08
then it got added later as what you're thinking. 01:10:12
Before that. 01:10:19
That's more overwhelming for me because it involves huge discussions and I'm like, pull it off. 01:10:23
You know. 01:10:29
The attendant in general, but if it's a consent item, I'm like OK, this is meaningful and if I need to have a discussion I can. 01:10:31
But you're right, it's really hard when you have 24 hours and I I go over the agenda all weekend and then Tuesday night it gets 01:10:36
posted and. 01:10:40
And I'm with family Tuesday night and Wednesday, I'm at work all day and I'm like frantically trying to prepare for council and I 01:10:46
and I come prepared. I make sure of it, but it's. 01:10:51
It would be nice to shoot for that Monday and then to avoid putting last minute consent items on whenever possible. Yeah, and I 01:10:57
would say this too, well, maybe we can do for policy internally is to say if something was put on. I mean, the goal was always 01:11:03
that Eric is reaching out and saying, hey, we added these things. 01:11:08
But we could say, hey, these things were added if you need to pull them out. 01:11:14
Yeah. So, so back to Jake's point on some of that then. 01:11:18
Would you like it to say that it's it must have a type of a deadline with it that we're putting it on last minute? 01:11:23
Or just have a reasoning. I don't even feel like we know how to do that right now. I think we have to go back and try to figure 01:11:31
out the timing of the dates and figure out how to start even. 01:11:36
Moving things back for review. 01:11:41
But if there is anything, we can always pull it off. 01:11:44
And discuss it. And we can always come up with better policy to discuss it, you know. 01:11:47
Yeah. And and like you had mentioned earlier, we did bring back the work sessions so that the items but but this way the items. 01:11:53
These are these are the initial introduction to the items of the work session. 01:12:02
So a lot of times when they come back as a business item, there's a concerned item, you've already had at least one discussion on 01:12:05
it because I know with the. 01:12:10
Some of the code changes you had a couple different discussions and some individual discussions with the. 01:12:14
Some of the stuff that you guys have worked on. 01:12:19
For some code changes so. 01:12:22
I mean, if you don't feel like it's ready, then we put it back on as another work session as well, so. 01:12:24
That's just you guys giving direction to staff and letting us know that we're. 01:12:30
Yeah. We have so many opportunities as a council to pull it off, continue it, discuss it further. So I feel like it's manageable. 01:12:34
I'm sorry. 01:12:38
OK. 01:12:44
Thank you. I just, I just, I just want to say that it's not a hard and fast rule and it's just like, oh, we tried. 01:12:45
I mean, I'm thinking back of the angry. 01:12:53
Months of the fall and it's like, if it's just, oh, we're going to try, but then everyone has the power to just add it on and say 01:12:56
OOP, it's the last minute thing it. 01:13:01
There's not a hard and fast policy and I think that. 01:13:06
Like I just don't want, I don't feel like we have to have a culture of. 01:13:09
Oh, it has to be done. There's there's no way in waiting 7. 01:13:13
14 days. 01:13:16
To just get it right. 01:13:18
And I think it's not me and you read the umm. 01:13:20
Were the council reading the? 01:13:24
Approval or consent items. 01:13:27
It's the citizens reading and understanding. 01:13:30
I mean, we might have a conversation about. 01:13:34
You know anything that's controversial? 01:13:38
But if it's not understood clearly in the consent item and there's not a dollar amount. 01:13:40
Citizens, they'll never know and it'll look bad. 01:13:45
That's right. OK. That's something else that maybe we talk about a little bit. Is, is one of the staff report required? 01:13:47
Expected. 01:13:57
Maybe is a better way to say it. 01:13:58
Because we've we just kind of started using staff reports. 01:14:00
Probably in 20. It's been a while obviously, but they weren't using them. 01:14:05
When I first started. 01:14:09
Rather than we have a full staff report. I know Nathan Crane would do it because he. 01:14:10
Came from, you know, different areas. 01:14:15
Of the family where where we decided, but I think the other thing is. 01:14:20
If somebody sees something on consent, they do have the 24 hours, so if they see it. 01:14:25
And they have a question about it. They can tell their representative and their representative can pull it off. So, so I I feel 01:14:30
and this is. 01:14:34
Pam's opinion is that we have a staff report. 01:14:38
For everything except for all of the minutes, those are. 01:14:41
Self-explanatory I think. 01:14:45
So, umm. 01:14:48
But I just want kind of wanted your feedback on that as to. 01:14:49
I would like to see a staff reporter give them. 01:14:53
Tony and I more information about what is this agenda item and if now you're wanting us to include that it's got a fiscal impact 01:14:56
in that title. 01:15:00
We need to make sure that that's included. 01:15:04
Because if the person putting the agenda item on doesn't put that on, then we, we need to do a little deeper dive and make sure we 01:15:07
include it for you guys, for everybody in general, for. 01:15:12
For publishing and noticing the agenda, my recommendation would be that you take this back to staff meeting and that you guys kind 01:15:18
of go through this and review it and say how can we see these things? I know it as we start building the new agenda. I like that. 01:15:24
Yep. I want to give some feedback because you're saying staff report, do the staff members write an e-mail weekly or bi weekly to 01:15:31
Eric right now? 01:15:35
Um, I'm not sure exactly what he's doing. I know he's trying to send you guys out of. 01:15:40
Is it a weekly Tony? 01:15:46
Tony, I'll have a little more insight on that, SO. 01:15:48
Eric should be We are going to start playing together. Weekly reports from the department heads to Eric. 01:15:51
There are there are reports of the. 01:15:57
Department heads to Eric and then a summarization of. 01:15:59
The past weeks work that Eric has been doing. 01:16:03
To the Council. 01:16:06
Right. I would just give some feedback and that is such a high level report that it doesn't give anything. And if council members 01:16:08
or the mayor is getting one, wouldn't we give the opportunity to get that report as well? 01:16:14
I think we're talking about two different types of reports, right? I think the report that Eric's compiling to send you guys. 01:16:20
Is just an overall overview of what each department's doing. The staff reports that I'm talking about actually. 01:16:28
Go with the item that's on the agenda. 01:16:35
So I'm talking about just clarifying the item. 01:16:38
Like if the mayor is getting a staff report from the department heads. 01:16:41
Then Eric, I think it's going to all over council. 01:16:46
I'm not getting any of them. 01:16:49
So I only get Eric's synopsis, and that's about if they send it to Eric, Eric does a synopsis of it and then sends it. Can I be 01:16:52
copied on all staff reports? I'm gonna clarify it and then I'm gonna end this with her item and move on. But here's what she's 01:16:59
saying. Staff reports, the recommendations are attached to your agenda. Everybody gets them in the agenda. Additionally, there's a 01:17:07
report that goes out from Eric. That's the synopsis that you're copied in on. So you receive all. 01:17:14
The same as the whole council. We all received reports simultaneously. Thank you. Thank you. Right. And for point of 01:17:21
clarification, is there any, could we vote to get the direct report instead of the brief synopsis from the department heads? 01:17:28
Because we can get those, right? We can't make any vote tonight, but you do get the direct report in your packet. That's what 01:17:34
they're discussing. If they were running a different report, we'd have to. I'm talking about. 01:17:40
Department heads weekly report that they submit to Eric instead of getting the aggregate. 01:17:47
I would like the Council on this particular issue. 01:17:53
To by statute have that included. So if we don't want the high version of Eric that we get. 01:17:57
The very lengthy from the department has. So Jamie, I'll give you you can go ahead and talk in a minute. We would I think we would 01:18:04
have to ask Eric how he wanted to designate that time and if he wanted them to write reports, we would have to have that 01:18:10
discussion at a different time. No, we're not. We're not We're not talking about erics writing the report. Well, I understand. I 01:18:15
understand apartment heads that are already writing it. 01:18:21
Just to copy us on it so that if. 01:18:27
We read Eric's report. 01:18:29
And we say, hey, let's get into the details of it. We can also know because you're getting that right. 01:18:31
No, I'm not getting that. What I'm saying is we get the same reports. 01:18:37
In the pocket and in his synopsis, all of us get the same reports and that is all. But if you do want to have a future 01:18:42
conversation about it where we ask for additional reports, we could have that, but we can't tonight. 01:18:48
So we're not going to do that thing. 01:18:54
Please see next agenda item. 01:18:56
OK, this is a bit of A tag team presentation with Jenna Hearn. 01:19:00
The communications director so. 01:19:04
What we wanted to do is give you kind of a brief orientation as to the law. 01:19:07
As it relates to social media comments and social media posts made by the city. 01:19:12
And then Jenna will get into some of the details of the policy. 01:19:17
So there. 01:19:22
By way of background. 01:19:25
There are a number of different social media platforms. Each of them have their own. 01:19:26
Different rules for. 01:19:31
How you post? How you comment? 01:19:33
How you moderate comments? Whether you have to. On some platforms you have to block people outright. There's no option for. 01:19:36
Removing or moderating posts Others do allow a little bit more detail on how you. 01:19:44
Moderate and work through things. So there is a little bit of a difficulty applying the law to some of the specific platforms, but 01:19:50
I'll walk through. 01:19:54
In a nutshell, how that works. 01:19:59
There are two primary concerns when we look at social media. The 1st is any of the city. Any use by the city of social media or by 01:20:02
city officials? 01:20:07
Of social media when you are acting in your official capacity. 01:20:12
Are public, so comments are visible. Comments are accessible by search engines, and they're classified as public records under 01:20:17
state law if there were a request for that information. 01:20:22
The First Amendment also comes to bear Commenters on social media posts have First Amendment rights. 01:20:29
Which means the city can restrict certain types of comments, but. 01:20:36
You can only do them. 01:20:40
According to legitimate time, place and manner. 01:20:42
Restrictions. So things like offensive comments. 01:20:45
They may remain if they are legally protected speech. 01:20:49
These are the categories of things that are allowed. 01:20:54
By law to be removed so if you have a discriminatory. 01:20:57
Comment A comment about somebody's race, somebody's marital status, somebody's sexual orientation, their religion. 01:21:01
You can remove those types of comments. 01:21:09
Slander or defamation if you have a threatening, harassing or profane comment. A sexual comment. 01:21:12
And then as you go down through the list, there are a number of other things for which you can moderate. 01:21:18
Or remove a comment. 01:21:25
Essentially, hear what you're trying to do is keep people from harm. 01:21:27
Or keep it. But what you cannot do is remove a comment based on its content. What if you're? 01:21:32
If you have a position on something that is A and somebody comments and says I like be. 01:21:39
You can't remove those comments that say they prefer the other. 01:21:44
We I'll skip that one because we'll get into it a little bit, but that's. 01:21:50
That's the basic framework for comments by way of background. 01:21:55
The city used to allow comments on its social media posts. 01:21:59
With. 01:22:06
More and more social media use and more and more controversial issues. 01:22:07
There begin to be posts that were I thought. 01:22:11
Within the category of being threatening, harassing or profane. 01:22:16
And the city did not have in place a policy for dealing with those types of comments. And so your options were a little bit more 01:22:20
binary. It was either you allow comments or you disallow comments. But if you don't have a policy. 01:22:26
You can't remove them without. 01:22:33
Inviting a First Amendment lawsuit, and we've seen in just this last Supreme Court calendar. 01:22:35
Two cases that related to. 01:22:41
Section 1983 claims against cities and public entities. 01:22:44
For social media use. So what we have now done is taken some time to go through and prepare a policy. 01:22:49
And Jenna and her office have done quite a bit of work to put that together. 01:22:56
The policy will allow for removal of comments. 01:23:00
Based on these criteria that are up on the board. 01:23:04
And then the other thing the policy allows. 01:23:07
That I think is really healthy and important is that. 01:23:10
If a comment is removed, hidden, muted, depending on what the platform is. 01:23:13
There would be an appeal process where the person who had their comment removed could come to the city and say I think you 01:23:18
interpret it. 01:23:21
Incorrectly and it should remain. 01:23:25
And then the communications director can remove that or can review. 01:23:29
That appeal and then. 01:23:33
Make a decision on it. 01:23:35
So I'm going to step aside and yield to Jenna to talk a little bit about how she'll her office will go about implementing this. 01:23:37
And then I'll be available as a resource if you have questions. 01:23:44
Yeah, thanks, Jamie. So. 01:23:48
Like we said in the past comments used to be allowed and. 01:23:51
And without that policy in place, it is hard to handle those situations that come about that are violations of. 01:23:55
Those non protected areas so. 01:24:02
And going forward with this policy with our new digital media specialists, we have that staff power to dedicate more time to 01:24:06
addressing these comments and we think it's. 01:24:11
A great option like social media is a great option for residents to be able to interact with staff, interact with the city, get 01:24:16
questions answered. 01:24:19
Be able to voice concerns, give feedback. 01:24:24
Of course we want it to be a. 01:24:27
A healthy interaction and like we can't control all the negativity out there and we recognize that. 01:24:30
There was there going to be angry posts, There's going to be some negativity that we see. 01:24:36
As such, based on. 01:24:41
Looking at other cities, other state departments. 01:24:44
They don't. 01:24:47
Respond to every single comment. So that's not something that we would plan to do. 01:24:52
Just as a city like we don't have the resources to. 01:24:56
Go in depth every single time anybody brings up anything. I mean, of course we're going to do our best to respond to valid 01:25:00
concerns and questions and feedback. 01:25:04
But yeah, we don't have the staff power to really. 01:25:09
Respond to every single question and we want to keep comments open so that people can interact with each other as well. 01:25:13
And as part of our policy, we're making it clear that this comment section is not meant to be a replacement for. 01:25:18
Emergency reporting or report a concern or. 01:25:24
Safety concerns. So we'll make it clear that there's appropriate channels to go through to report those concerns or get help for 01:25:28
that. 01:25:32
And that the social media is meant to be an interactive. 01:25:36
Place where people can, you know, interact with each other, interact with the city and get answers to their questions. 01:25:41
Right now, based on our estimates, about 20% of residents follow the social media channels, so. 01:25:47
We think it's going to be a really helpful thing that they can find answers to questions straight from the city. 01:25:54
And be able to interact with each other as well. 01:26:00
We'll be creating templates for certain common questions, like if people try to report concerns via comments. Templates that we 01:26:03
can respond to make that process a lot easier. 01:26:08
And less time intensive on staff. 01:26:13
And that we get that. 01:26:16
Kind of a cohesive. 01:26:18
Response going so that people get the same. 01:26:22
The same level of. 01:26:25
A response when they have those questions. 01:26:26
I just want to add in the reason why Jenna is saying this is there's a lot of frustration as we've been working on this policy. 01:26:31
About. 01:26:38
What it means to report a concern or to. 01:26:40
Their comments not being answered. 01:26:44
And there's a lot of feedback that the council and others give about how these questions aren't addressed. 01:26:46
And the issue is that there. 01:26:53
Is not enough. 01:26:55
Resources or people to actually follow and look through comments and find. 01:26:58
Out, out. 01:27:05
How to respond to those questions? That's by going through the podium channel or the report of concern. You can see that instant 01:27:06
feedback and sometimes that's really upsetting to residents when they're like, you haven't responded for three weeks. 01:27:12
And that's not the place to. 01:27:19
Make that. 01:27:22
Dialogue. Umm. 01:27:23
And that's our big reason why people want U.S. Open is so that they can report their concern or put something inside of there or 01:27:24
ask for help. 01:27:28
Inside several threads of questions. 01:27:32
And it can be very complex because what Jenna is stating really clearly is that's not. 01:27:35
What this will be used for, it's just going to be on the post and sometimes they'll see something and they'll go back and they'll 01:27:40
make scripts, but there's just not enough manpower inside of the office to do that. And our plan at the moment is, if we move 01:27:47
forward with this, to create a post kind of outlining those guidelines and where they can turn for those resources, pinning it. 01:27:54
You know, at the top of our feed or making it like a highlight level later on just so that people can reference that back and 01:28:01
that's in a really clear place for residents to see and recognize that. 01:28:05
We're not an emergency service like this isn't reported concern. This is meant to be community engagement and helping people get 01:28:10
answers to questions about the events that we're talking about or the programs that are going on. 01:28:15
But that real concerns do need to be channeled through the appropriate resources so. 01:28:20
Well, and I guess. 01:28:27
When we talk about that there. 01:28:28
This was a plan from when this was put in. 01:28:30
And the policy to make it an information site was to give everybody at the opportunity to obtain this information. 01:28:32
And to do the things that Jamie was articulating, and then this plan was being built. 01:28:39
But as you think about why you would open it back up, if you're just considering this to be a place where people gather 01:28:43
information, if you're thinking this is a place where people go and they get the answers to all of these other things, it will be 01:28:48
a confusing. 01:28:53
Platform because there's not the resources or ability to do any of those things on this. 01:28:58
Well, I could see a concern specifically. 01:29:03
Just from the history of the current Council, sometimes I think. 01:29:08
When this does get opened up or however we push forward. 01:29:12
Sometimes the council will have opinions on how it needs to be answered and I think there needs to be a clear policy that this is 01:29:17
in the purview of our social media director. And if there's something of great concern then it could be brought to the director. 01:29:23
But I think we would want to make sure that as a council we understand we can't micromanage that. 01:29:29
There's there's a really important legal issue. 01:29:36
Related to what Councilwoman SU Fuentes just mentioned, and I didn't put it on my presentation, but you do need to be. 01:29:39
Thinking about it. 01:29:46
Anytime that you have a quorum of the council gathered, it is a quote meeting. 01:29:48
And it has to be properly noticed. 01:29:54
And there's an interpretation of the Open and Public Meetings Act that. 01:29:56
If you all are on the same thread commenting. 01:30:01
That it would be a meeting. 01:30:05
And so my strong advice on city social media helps would be that members of the council limit. 01:30:07
Their interaction on those if you do decide to open comments up and. 01:30:16
I I should also note, and I didn't say this at the beginning of the presentation, we have a draft policy. Nothing is set in stone 01:30:20
yet. What we wanted to do is take it to you and broad strokes today. 01:30:26
To get your feedback on it. 01:30:31
And then we'll refine it, circulate it, you can review it and then consider it fully. 01:30:33
But. 01:30:39
You're not obligated to turn comments on. 01:30:40
On social media, you can choose to continue to use social media as just. 01:30:44
A way to push information out, but not a forum. 01:30:49
Not a public forum in the sense the First Amendment uses that word. 01:30:53
If once you open it up, it does become a public forum, it's a limited public forum you can put. 01:30:57
Time, place and manner restrictions on it, but not many. I mean it really. It really essentially is this list. 01:31:04
And so there will be situations where each of you may want to weigh in on comments or talk on the same thread. 01:31:11
Through those comments and you're going to be restricted a little bit just because of the Open and Public Meetings Act. 01:31:19
So I have a question. 01:31:25
If that's the case and there's something we want to respond to, can we just reach out and say? 01:31:27
Message me yes and not have a conversation on the same thread yes. 01:31:32
Yeah, you can certainly do that. You can reach out to your constituents, you know, through that platform, you could reach out to 01:31:37
them. 01:31:40
By e-mail, text, whatever is convenient. It just can't be. 01:31:44
A conversation including three or more of you. 01:31:47
On the same thread and there can be. 01:31:52
A little bit of tension among councils in that context, because if Sarah reads it first in comments. 01:31:55
And then Marty reads it second in comments. 01:32:01
Than the rest of you are left out. 01:32:04
Of the conversation. 01:32:06
OK. 01:32:08
OK, any questions? If not, send your thoughts to. 01:32:11
These two and we can start having a further discussion on it. 01:32:15
Does that mean all comments would be turned on Instagram, Facebook and every account that we have? 01:32:20
Well, there Twitter, there's a. 01:32:26
You can make a few different choices here. You could. 01:32:28
Elect to continue to keep comments off. 01:32:31
You could turn them on for certain posts and not others. 01:32:34
So the city may wish to put something out that would say we have an event this Thursday night. 01:32:38
Please come. 01:32:44
And you may not want comments on that thing and you may have another one that would be. 01:32:45
We're doing a planning study on this area and we would like your feedback. 01:32:50
Where you then would invite feedback and you could use the social media tool as a way to gather that. 01:32:54
Not all platforms let you turn some comments on some comments off, and so it gets a little tricky because it becomes binary. 01:33:01
Within how those systems work and so. 01:33:10
You could also have a discussion, and Jenna will know this better than I do, about how the different platforms work and whether 01:33:13
you wanted to have it. 01:33:17
Open comments across the board. 01:33:21
Comments on, you know, limited items, but not every item. 01:33:23
But the moment you open comments on an item. 01:33:27
You have to leave them open on that item. 01:33:30
And you can only. 01:33:33
Call or restrict those comments that fall into those. Really. 01:33:35
Strict categories that I had up on the screen. 01:33:39
Great. Thank you. 01:33:45
All right, Sammy, you're up again. 01:33:46
For the Finance Committee. 01:33:49
I'm going to slide into this seat because. 01:33:53
This is really Councilmember Holdaway's item. 01:33:55
But I'll give a little bit of background on it. 01:33:59
There have been questions during the budget discussions of. 01:34:03
What are the right ways for council members and for residents to engage in? 01:34:08
Financial decisions of the city. 01:34:14
And so a piece of advice that I have given to. 01:34:16
Council member Holdaway and other members of the City Council is that some cities form. 01:34:20
Finance Committee. 01:34:26
And the Finance Committee typically is. 01:34:28
Formed by a few council members and then. 01:34:31
Those members of staff that have. 01:34:34
Areas of responsibility related to finance it could be. 01:34:39
Budget responsibilities that could be treasurer responsibilities, that could be audit responsibilities, but anything in in kind of 01:34:42
that grouping in that category. 01:34:47
Could attend those meetings. 01:34:52
They because it's not a quorum of the council, they wouldn't meet publicly, but what it would do is provide a structure wherein a 01:34:54
few different council members could. 01:34:59
Dive a little bit deeper into that topic and then anytime you have. 01:35:05
A discussion as a council on a financial topic. You could look to those council members as. 01:35:08
More expert than they would be if they just had brought. 01:35:14
Responsibilities across the Council and so. 01:35:18
Councilmember Holloway asked to have this be placed on the agenda for discussion. The mayor acquiesced. 01:35:22
And put it on the. 01:35:28
Agenda today as an option. 01:35:30
I have done a little bit of work just to review. 01:35:32
How a few different cities use finance committees. 01:35:35
That's just based on the experience of the lawyers in my firm in the different cities that we represent. 01:35:39
They're the only city we could find in the state that had a formally established Finance Committee that had code sections and the 01:35:44
like. Was. 01:35:48
Salt Lake City, that's in a really different government structure and they actually had a Finance Committee for their RDA. 01:35:53
Their counsel and their. 01:35:58
City administration. 01:36:02
And it was really different than I think what you'd be, what you'd be talking about, but. 01:36:04
Essentially, by my experience, most cities have the function with a few different council members and then staff as needed. 01:36:10
They don't name anybody other than the council members to the committee and the committee members. 01:36:17
Under Vineyard code would be. 01:36:23
Appointed by the mayor and then? 01:36:25
Work in that capacity as their their council assignments. 01:36:27
So I'll add just for context, typically what we've done is I usually appoint someone to finance or I hold the seat myself and then 01:36:32
invite rotating council members to have discussions with our executive staff and our finance team. And then all council goes 01:36:40
through the budgeting process and has their individual meetings through that section. So because we had a lot of. 01:36:48
Questions and detail This year we had a lot of. 01:36:57
Group discussion and then individual discussions and then we held a lot of open discussions for people that wanted to bring in. 01:37:00
People they were working with. 01:37:07
But following that line, we can definitely move forward and even assign one or two people. 01:37:09
As we go forward and the way that we've processed it in the past is quarterly meetings. 01:37:15
That's typical. And then just any insights or any meetings that they have questions and then we would still remain the Council 01:37:21
through that same budget process. 01:37:26
Dave, did you have anything to add or anything that you wanted to clarify? 01:37:37
Umm, you know, we have a very long history and I wish Eric were here. 01:37:47
To defend himself, but we've gone back and forth in emails. 01:37:53
You know, as I called the state. 01:37:56
Auditor today. 01:37:59
I called. 01:38:01
A lot of different cities. 01:38:02
And I have had to help him understand that. 01:38:04
My city manager wants to deny meetings and I now have been corrected that he can deny meetings under his authority. 01:38:07
Umm, it's just disappointing. 01:38:15
You can have two different sides of stories. 01:38:22
Of I think this happened. 01:38:26
And there's a long history there. I even called, you know, previous. 01:38:28
Late Commission members of How do I Deal Better with Eric? 01:38:35
And the first thing that. 01:38:38
Came up was. 01:38:43
He does have a right, but the Council has the ability. 01:38:45
To put in different policies. 01:38:49
Our ordinance says that maybe we might not be able to force him, but we have the ability to do open working sessions. 01:38:53
Knowing the history. 01:39:00
And I don't want to belabor the point of all the instances. 01:39:02
But there are many, and I think everyone knows for the vast majority where. 01:39:06
Whether it be the Ledger? 01:39:10
Or different issues. 01:39:13
There's a different story and having a witness and. 01:39:17
An advisor. 01:39:23
And I would quite frankly say that the vast majority of things, and I understand that I'm more of the whistleblower role or the 01:39:25
one that picks at things not to be negative, but to try to improve. 01:39:29
I try to come with an eye of. 01:39:35
Hey, what is this? Whether it be? 01:39:37
You know, concert tickets or different things that come to light. 01:39:39
That are ugly. 01:39:43
Umm, you know they, I know they are accusatory of, of staff or things, but. 01:39:47
To go in all by yourself. 01:39:51
Is not good government. 01:39:54
Are you not being accommodated with this discussion? 01:39:56
Being provided an Ave. to start, set up a committee that you could be on and do these things. Yeah. So reading through the e-mail, 01:39:59
the mayor would pick her. 01:40:03
Committees, you would pick the people, it would be the finance director, it would be Eric. 01:40:08
And. 01:40:13
In his words, and I'm reading it straightforward, I would not advise or recommend that that a city, that a citizen be on that. So 01:40:14
that's not what we're talking about. 01:40:18
We're talking about the ability for me to have. 01:40:23
Somebody there is a witness so that false accusations don't come up. 01:40:26
And I don't want to go through because we've gone through close right. We're I don't want to go through closed door meetings of. 01:40:30
Things that have happened in our city where? 01:40:37
There are questions of what did or did not happen. 01:40:39
And as a council member. 01:40:43
With false accusations that have come up before in the past where investigations have had to happen. 01:40:45
Closed door meetings have had to happen and. 01:40:52
People's integrity have been questioned. I would be foolish to put myself in a one-on-one situation without an advisor or somebody 01:40:54
there. 01:40:59
Integrity in question. No, I'm saying there's two different stories. No, he's not here. We've we've talked about it in open with 01:41:05
him. We've gone back and forth. Actually we have talked about it in open and we have shown that there have been multiple witnesses 01:41:10
in the room and that they have disagreed with you and you have. 01:41:16
You have been told that. 01:41:21
Eric has met with the people that you were talking about and then said we can't continue to expend resources on this committee, 01:41:23
right. And, and, and it wasn't that. 01:41:28
It wasn't, and he had very specific reasons for it and it followed exactly what he needed to do. He was open about it. He talked 01:41:33
about it here. 01:41:38
And to come out and act like he wasn't trying, especially when you just randomly bring up things. 01:41:43
Like the Ledger or that you're a whistleblower. Nobody has been doing any activity that is illegal. Nobody has been trying to cut 01:41:50
you out of meetings. And even now when you brought up the Finance Committee, we're saying this is how we've done it. 01:41:56
This would be a great and appropriate way to do it. And if this isn't and I'm still talking, you can wait. You can wait your turn. 01:42:02
This isn't a word salad. This is stop, Stop and take your turn, OK? 01:42:08
This isn't a word salad. This Is Us. 01:42:15
Disagreeing with you or me and Amber speaking? Disagreeing with you. 01:42:17
A word salad. This is not a word salad. You're saying and the Ledger, and then you don't talk about the Ledger or what was 01:42:21
discussed or how you asked. I'm still talking and then you can talk. 01:42:27
You can talk when I'm done. 01:42:32
You are not just saying that there was a disagreement, You are making an accusation. You are stating that you are a whistleblower. 01:42:34
You are stating that you're creating transparency while other people are accusing him of doing something illegal and other 01:42:40
investigations. You are alluding to things. 01:42:45
That is inappropriate for this discussion. If you want to tell us that you want an advisor and that you want to expand this beyond 01:42:51
an executive meeting, that would be appropriate. 01:42:55
Go ahead and take your turn. 01:43:00
Can I openly talk about the issues and problems or do we have to go into a closed door session because I would love to name names 01:43:03
right now. 01:43:06
I don't have any context for. 01:43:10
If we need to go into the history of what's gone on, I think I'd like to go into a closed session. 01:43:13
I'd like to add that. 01:43:19
For character of someone, no, I would like to be able to openly talk about the instances. 01:43:21
Because they're known. If you wish to talk about the character, competence, or performance of an individual, then yes, a closed 01:43:27
session is the place for that. 01:43:31
If what I. 01:43:37
I'm struggling to follow. 01:43:39
No, someone would be so foolish. 01:43:42
I I'm struggling to follow how those conversations going to kind of personalize hang on, I'm still not done. 01:43:46
There there is. 01:43:55
The question that was put to me is. 01:43:57
What are ways that other cities engage in the finance? 01:44:00
Of the city. 01:44:06
The budget process. Audit process. 01:44:08
Bigger decisions that might require. 01:44:11
Financial tools or debt? 01:44:14
To fund. 01:44:16
And one of my answers to you was that many cities, most cities. 01:44:18
Have a formal Finance Committee that has a few council members on it. 01:44:24
And then those council members get to do a deeper dive. 01:44:28
And focus their time on that. And councils will have other assignments for other topics. And by dividing them up and diving deeper 01:44:33
as a council. 01:44:37
You then have council members that can develop some expertise. 01:44:42
So that when you have a question about the budget or finances or expenditures. 01:44:46
You don't always just have to go to your city manager. You also could turn to the council members that are on the Finance 01:44:52
Committee. 01:44:55
So that was the basis of my recommendation was. 01:44:59
If you want as a city to have. 01:45:03
Multiple layers of expertise and multiple eyes on things. 01:45:06
That a Finance Committee is a good way to accomplish that. 01:45:11
Now we're we're dealing more with trust issues and the ability to have an open. 01:45:15
Dialogue and understand what did or did not happen in meetings. 01:45:20
And I don't mind openly talking about it, but I don't want to say, hey, you're not allowed to talk about this. 01:45:25
So I mean, just with the Ledger, right, We went back and forth for two months of is Jaker? Eric asked using the word Ledger. 01:45:31
In these meetings and you go, if it was recorded or someone was there, they would know. 01:45:40
And that's good for both sides. 01:45:44
Right. I think I'm being very generous where I'm not saying who was right or was that. 01:45:46
But as a council putting in putting forth a policy to say. 01:45:51
Jake is not what Eric is now, and apparently under his authority. 01:45:55
Now has the ability. 01:46:00
To deny meetings if there is a witness or an advisor present and that is just unacceptable. 01:46:01
That made it seem like that was the reason why he did it. You wanted to have a meeting. 01:46:11
You called on the same day at 3:00. 01:46:16
In order to create actions by a committee that isn't deputized. We didn't wasn't brought on by the council. No, it was about 01:46:19
wanting to hold it the same day. I read through it wasn't the same day. 01:46:25
The budget committee was month. It was like weeks later. No, you met several times, right? We had a meeting that he was talking 01:46:32
about not holding. 01:46:36
Was scheduled and planned for and then you ended up holding at somebody's house at 5:00 at night. 01:46:41
No, no, that was not. 01:46:46
Eric denied that meeting. That's what I'm talking about because it was a short term schedule meeting. He's denying all meetings 01:46:48
moving forward. Mayor, he does not want to meet. He sent an e-mail out to me. 01:46:54
And said he will not meet unless I'm all by myself. 01:47:00
That's unacceptable. 01:47:02
That's not true. That's not true. That is, do we want anyone to raise their hands about what he's been going back and forth? 01:47:04
Listen, no, I mean, I was copied on some of these emails and I think if you're going to quote what his intentions are, I think you 01:47:09
should read the whole thing if you're going to. 01:47:14
If he's not here to speak for himself, and if you're going to summarize well, I'm glad to hear it, that he will be willing to meet 01:47:19
with somebody else in the room. 01:47:22
Because I think that you, it's not that he's not, it's not that he's not willing to meet with somebody else in the room. He's 01:47:26
saying that he wants. 01:47:31
I don't even want to hyper, I don't want to summarize his e-mail because I felt the way he worded it was very. 01:47:36
Fair and explain why he was denying it. 01:47:43
He's he's denying, he says that. I just don't think it's, I don't read the e-mail. Read the e-mail publicly if you want to. 01:47:48
Jacob, I feel bad that we don't want to meet often. 01:47:57
I meet with the other council members and mayor at least. 01:48:00
These are productive one-on-one meetings in which council members, the city manager and the city mayor can work together to 01:48:06
discuss issues facing the city. 01:48:09
In a collaborative manner. 01:48:13
Having these meetings help council members to be better representatives of those Vineyard residents. 01:48:14
Who elect them to that position? It allows you to be informed. 01:48:20
Oh, sorry, I'm reading the wrong e-mail. Sorry. 01:48:24
Let me grab. 01:48:27
Jake, please review my most recent communication. I did not accept your request to continue group meetings. Rather, I encourage 01:48:33
you to accept the offer. 01:48:38
To meet regularly with the mayor and me. 01:48:42
I also encourage you to take. 01:48:44
To take the content of those one-on-one meetings back to your constituents and advisors. 01:48:46
So yeah, he has. And he stopped reading now. He stopped read the whole thing because he talked about making sure that at the end 01:48:53
of the meeting that you 2 could discuss what the what the team was from the meeting. Hold on, let me finish. 01:48:59
You guys would discuss at the end of the meeting, this is what we talked about. This is where we stand. This is what we agree 01:49:06
upon. This is what will be reported to anyone and everyone that wants. I'm really excited to hear that. But that was in the 01:49:11
e-mail. You've read that e-mail. 01:49:15
Why would I have that e-mail and you wouldn't? 01:49:23
Excuse me. Well, point of order, we're going to go back to this discussion. We we see that. I'm excited to hear that he's going to 01:49:26
allow somebody in the meeting. That's not what I said. That's not at all what I said, Yeah. 01:49:32
It's a point of order. 01:49:39
You guys, many of the things actually finish what you're saying and then we're going to go back. 01:49:41
In that e-mail, I'm not sure if it's that exact. 01:49:47
One, but it's in that thread. 01:49:49
He said that he really wants to meet with you more regularly, right? And he understands your concern of the he said he said thing. 01:49:52
But what he said that at the end of the meeting with you and Hammond, potentially the mayor. 01:49:58
You would be able to sit down and say these are the points we talked about. 01:50:04
These are what we will report on, like a record of the meeting so that there is no confusion on, oh, Jake said this or Jake didn't 01:50:09
say this because you both would agree on how the meeting would be reported on. So for me, what I'm saying is I see intent here. He 01:50:15
doesn't want there to be this conflict with you. He understands your distrust of him and he's trying to find solutions. And I 01:50:21
think it's healthy for a city manager or any employee within any kind of city or corporation to have boundaries on how they're 01:50:27
able to. 01:50:33
Conduct their position and their job. So hold on one second. 01:50:40
Abound. Now the reason No. 01:50:44
And then saying, hold on, Jake, Jake, hold on, Jake, hold on one second. So Marty's point to you is that there's an opportunity to 01:50:47
have a discussion. 01:50:52
Because you served your point. 01:50:57
And then she responded. 01:50:59
And the point of the reason why I let it go on is because. 01:51:01
This allows us to decide if this is the way we want to hold. 01:51:06
The Finance Committee or if we want to formalize it in policy, we now know how it's been happening. 01:51:10
Jamie talked about how other cities do it and how we could do it. If you would like to offer a suggestion about doing it a 01:51:16
different way, please present it to the council. Council then you can discuss. That is the conversation we're having. We're now 01:51:20
going back to the. 01:51:24
The other discussion that is irrelevant to this we have to keep business. 01:51:28
We already understand. 01:51:34
That you feel there's disagreement, we recognize it. We understand you feel. 01:51:36
That there's a story going on that. 01:51:42
You're not having representations. So if you want representation, no, it's not that. Again, like. 01:51:44
When we meet. 01:51:50
And there are key differences, and we bring in a few witnesses and immediately they recognize that what he is saying isn't true. 01:51:51
It's awesome to have somebody there. 01:51:58
I'm excited to have people come up that were in the meeting. We all just we. 01:52:05
None of you were in the meeting, so listen. 01:52:09
I don't believe this is important to continue to rehash because we understand. 01:52:13
I guess your recommendation that you guys are open to it because I've been prepared, nobody has said it, but we are understanding 01:52:28
that you're asking please stop. You've been asked to stop. You've been asked to stop talking about this because it's irrelevant. 01:52:34
No, you are interrupting. 01:52:41
You are not allowing us to discuss as a council, you are not allowing us to form a committee or even understand the things that 01:52:47
you want to contribute. 01:52:51
All you have to say is you want additional representation. No, no, that's not what I want either. 01:52:55
What do you want in America nobody is talking about? 01:52:59
Representation, not representation another person to be a witness. That's what you would like, right? So when we go through and 01:53:03
there's misunderstanding, somebody can be there that is a trusted advisor that goes and says, hey. 01:53:09
Eric said this and you can go over and say. 01:53:16
Did that or did that not happen? And it's been time and time again. 01:53:20
That it's we caught this OK. And sometimes, sometimes he will catch me on me, miss. We all misspeak. OK. So Council, I think 01:53:23
what's on the table is that Eric offered that those meetings could be recorded and Jake is offering that he would like somebody 01:53:29
from the outside that he trusts. 01:53:35
Within those meetings, if he's part of the Finance Committee. 01:53:41
Doesn't need to be a Finance Committee. There does not need to be. And I don't know if Jamie didn't understand that. I just talked 01:53:45
about how. 01:53:48
There were multiple instances. 01:53:52
Where things happen and it was like. 01:53:54
I'm glad you were there and I'm glad my integrity is not being questioned. 01:53:57
I'm glad that that did occur. 01:54:02
And that we we don't put ourselves into open liability. I'm going to turn comments over to another council person. You often talk 01:54:04
about the spirit of things, right? 01:54:09
I think that we're we're failing to have a good spirit about this because it seems like the issue is, is that you're going into 01:54:14
these meetings with. 01:54:18
A deep distress of the person that's giving you the information. 01:54:24
And so you want someone there to be a witness of when he quote UN quote life? I don't want it to continue. Hold on. I'm not gonna 01:54:28
have a back and forth. Marty's going to speak and then I'm gonna give other council opportunities to speak so, so frankly. 01:54:35
I. 01:54:42
I respect the position of a city manager and a council member needing to be able to work together. 01:54:45
And I have no problem going into a meeting and working with Eric. 01:54:51
And if Eric saying, listen, Jake, when you bring in extra people to these meetings, it's just becoming like a Witz trial of sorts 01:54:55
or you're just trying to catch me in lies, then he is saying that the spirit of these meetings aren't. 01:55:02
Working. So if it was just like you wanted to bring in. 01:55:09
I don't know it. 01:55:13
Someone with you every time. I think maybe the spirit of it, if it were different. 01:55:14
Then you wouldn't be having so much pushback, but because the way the meetings are being functioned and that it seems like an I 01:55:19
gotcha moment every time I think he's realizing that they're not productive. I would say as my comment, this isn't a back and 01:55:25
forth other council get to take their turns and then you can comment. So I would say that what I recognize in this conversation 01:55:31
and why we're talking about a Finance Committee is that in the last conversation. 01:55:37
Councilmember Foldaway brought forward a committee that he said had been deputized, picked and brought in to discuss and go line 01:55:44
by line through itemization of the budget and that they were making these recommendations and that they were all designated to a 01:55:51
certain area. And we said as a council, this wasn't done by the council, This isn't representative of the people. And so we have 01:55:57
to formalize the committee if we're going to do something like that and the way that we would formalize it. 01:56:03
As Jamie's discussing, any committee like this? 01:56:10
Have to acknowledge it as a council and formalize it or we have to not spend our staff time on it and spend our staff time on 01:56:43
other things that we're putting our resources to. And I think that's what's on the discussion on the table tonight. 01:56:49
So Jamie, it's either, it's either Sarah or. 01:56:56
I'll take a second just to say this because I don't want a mayor or anyone being blamed for you not being able to meet with 01:57:01
people. 01:57:04
And I told you when we met one time. 01:57:08
I would not. 01:57:10
Talk to you outside of public meetings. 01:57:11
Because you will not work in good faith with me and you will not work in good faith with Eric. 01:57:13
I don't know how the other council people feel, but I just want to make sure you understand. 01:57:18
This is not some tyrannical mayor or city manager controlling everything. 01:57:23
Sarah, did you have a? 01:57:29
Honestly, that's been my experience too. 01:57:31
I've I've invited people mostly because I don't understand. 01:57:34
Government Finance. 01:57:37
And every time I've asked them to meet with me. 01:57:39
They've answered all my questions. 01:57:42
But I feel like the difference is, Jake, is you going to these meetings to find things to accuse? 01:57:44
Not to question, not to not to gain understanding. 01:57:49
But but to accuse and to find fault, and to find anywhere you can where you can go? 01:57:53
Say what you're gonna say. I have a whole different experience. 01:57:59
Than you do and I've been working with them for. 01:58:02
For the same amount of time. 01:58:05
And so I think it might be what Marty said, Your energy going into the room is more about revenge. 01:58:07
Then about, then about learning, and about. 01:58:12
Figuring out where things are good, where things are happening correctly in the city. 01:58:15
And even Kim herself. 01:58:20
She said I went, she went through with me and Christie line by line, and she said Christie is so conservative, she's so kind of 01:58:22
careful on the budget. 01:58:26
That we were both completely satisfied with what was happening. 01:58:31
And what we were seeing in the city. But we never hear that response from you. We never hear that acknowledgement. 01:58:34
About how hard people are working and what a great job they're doing. 01:58:39
And that's really frustrating. 01:58:43
Well, I don't want it to be a negative thing, but I mean, obviously I think I play a different role in playing the devil's 01:58:44
advocate and it's not to be. 01:58:49
Personal or anything like that? 01:58:55
But I will tell you the integrity of those that were. 01:58:57
In our group. 01:59:00
They did not come with a got to. 01:59:02
No one said it was them. 01:59:06
We're saying it's you. I I didn't talk in both meetings. 01:59:07
OK, I didn't talk. 01:59:14
Take, I think what would be helpful because this is a work session, but I just want to be clear because if that's what you're 01:59:16
hearing, that's what scares me is the second meeting that was the most contentious. 01:59:21
I was told not to talk and I got a candy bar at the end for not talking. 01:59:26
And so when I leave, I go, Why is Marty, Sifuentes and Sarah hearing that I'm contentious? 01:59:31
This bothers me about the spin. You're this way, you're misleading you're. 01:59:38
Every meeting, but this isn't a bad time. 01:59:42
Act this way every time as points of order though, for you to get to the heart of what you really need here, Jake. 01:59:46
It seems like you're not talking about a Finance Committee, you're talking about me. Hold on, hold on. It seems like you're 01:59:53
talking about meeting with people. 01:59:58
I think you need to recognize that if you're wanting to meet with your Finance Committee that you put together. 02:00:03
We have to have a different discussion and that you have to understand that resources and time of the city. 02:00:09
Have to be designated in a certain fashion. 02:00:14
If you would like to formalize and work on a policy, the Committee to Finance Committee together, that's a different discussion. I 02:00:17
think we can recognize that. 02:00:22
You now understand the resources and ability that Eric has. I think the rest of the council feels comfortable with that. I think 02:00:28
as far as the Finance Committee goes, we're open to a discussion of policy. I'm feeling the council is open to that, and we 02:00:33
already have something like that, but we can formalize it because it's a work session. I'm going to let you guys submit more of 02:00:38
your ideas. 02:00:43
For an agenda item for business for either policy and then I'm going to. 02:00:49
Let this go back to a discussion about resources and legal outside of this discussion because I think it's been understood here, 02:00:55
so I'm going to close out of this. 02:00:59
Item and we're going to move into public comments. 02:01:04
Is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak to? 02:01:07
This Council. 02:01:11
State your name, where you're from and we're going to put 2 minutes on. Can you raise your hand if you want to speak so I know how 02:01:16
much time I have? 02:01:19
You guys have kept me here online. I've got some things to say. Can you raise your hand if you want to speak tonight so I can know 02:01:23
how much time we have? 02:01:28
OK, I've got two people, all right. 02:01:34
Three people. 02:01:36
OK, umm. 02:01:37
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 02:01:38
I take offense to a lot of what has taken place. 02:01:42
I have been in these meetings. 02:01:47
And I have. 02:01:49
Heard Jake maligned. 02:01:51
By Eric Now I recognize that there's a history that Jake and Eric have. 02:01:54
That Marty and Eric don't have, Sarah and Eric don't have. 02:02:00
Amber and Eric don't have. 02:02:06
I think you're aware of it, Julie. 02:02:08
But I hear him being accused of. 02:02:11
Miss him for spreading this information. 02:02:16
When the reality was when I checked it further the following day. 02:02:19
The information that Eric gave us was totally inaccurate. Totally inaccurate about. 02:02:24
And RDA payments. 02:02:31
Jake didn't even mention it. 02:02:33
Except after it was brought up by someone else. 02:02:35
And that was Sean Herring, and Sean kind of knows RVA. 02:02:40
But nobody accused him in that meeting. 02:02:44
Of speaking falsely. 02:02:48
But in a conversation I have the following day with another Councilwoman. 02:02:50
She shared with me. 02:02:55
A completely different scenario. 02:02:58
And she said that is what has taken place. 02:03:01
So I really take offense with him going in and being the bad guy. I think we have to understand if he goes in. 02:03:04
Without anyone else. 02:03:12
It's not going to be the same as Marty going in or as Sarah going in because there's a history there and I don't think either one 02:03:13
of them trust each other. 02:03:18
And that is a sad scenario. 02:03:22
And I think that Jake. 02:03:25
Needs people with him. 02:03:27
And if anybody wants to know what the situation is I'm Speaking of. 02:03:30
Is the forge. 02:03:33
And it is the RDA. 02:03:35
Having been. 02:03:37
Having reimbursed the Forge developers, that is exactly what Marty told me. 02:03:39
The following day I didn't ask you about it. 02:03:44
The forge. We were talking about the forge. 02:03:47
At the open house. 02:03:50
We were talking at the. 02:03:52
Have a see. I needed a witness. 02:03:54
I need a no, we're not going to have it back and forth. Thank you for your comment. Is there anything else? 02:03:58
We had also in a meeting with. 02:04:04
Umm, as we were discussing some of the ways that we might fortify the budget, the city budget we recognize. 02:04:07
That the tax. 02:04:14
The tax increase is taking place. 02:04:17
And we are excited that we're going to have the safety. 02:04:19
The safety avenues here in this city. 02:04:23
But we brought up. 02:04:26
That we would like to see. 02:04:28
The $3,000,000 that has been set aside. 02:04:31
For a City Hall that is not currently needed. 02:04:35
We would like to see that money go to the fire station. 02:04:38
That money? 02:04:42
Then we have set aside for the fire station could be a surplus in our budget. 02:04:43
That could help us. 02:04:48
And this was a discussion we had and he. 02:04:50
Gave some story about. 02:04:53
RDA money has to go for. 02:04:55
In ground. 02:04:58
Infrastructure for roads, for lighting. 02:04:59
And the question came up, how is how is the fire station any different? 02:05:03
Than the City Hall. They're both vertical. 02:05:09
He said he would have to get back to us and that he would bring it up. 02:05:12
I don't think any of you have heard that. 02:05:16
But so I think. 02:05:18
He is running his agenda too and I think that it's very wrong. I'm sorry he's not here because I would be saying the same things. 02:05:21
But it's very wrong to put the blame on one. 02:05:29
And I think that would be in the best interest of everyone on this Council. 02:05:32
If they allowed him to have a scribe and another person with him at each of these meetings. 02:05:37
Because we are at an impasse there and I think that. 02:05:42
I think we need to respect that, and I think that is very amber. I'm so tired of you shaking your hand. I'm sorry. 02:05:46
But I think that it's really important. 02:05:54
That we don't malign. 02:05:57
His character. 02:05:59
And none of you understand because you don't have the history. 02:06:01
With Eric. 02:06:05
That Jake and Eric have, and I think that's very unfair. 02:06:08
That we're trying and I'm not trying to be. I'm not trying to be a troublemaker. 02:06:12
I am not trying to do anything like that. I'm a mother of five and a grandmother of 18, and I know sometimes. 02:06:17
When you're not in the room, you're not going to get the whole story. 02:06:24
When they're coming out telling on one another. 02:06:28
I think that that is human nature. 02:06:32
And I think we're in an interesting position here because of the history. 02:06:34
That this small little town has. 02:06:39
And we need to respect one another. And that's one of the ways that I think we can show respect is by allowing. 02:06:42
Him, Jake and Eric to have meetings where there is someone else in. 02:06:48
Present at the time. 02:06:53
And one more thing. 02:06:55
I was. 02:06:57
Taken aback tonight. 02:06:58
When it was not on the agenda. 02:07:00
But our lobbyists were brought up to speak. 02:07:02
However, they weren't called lobbyists, they were called legislative. 02:07:05
Legislative consultants. 02:07:10
Nowhere on the budget do I see. 02:07:13
Legislative consultants. So let's call them what they are. They are our lobbyists and that's the way they show up in our budget. 02:07:15
Thanks. 02:07:19
If it's the same. 02:07:26
Russ Levinson, resident of the Villas. 02:07:38
Happy to live there, feel blessed to live there. 02:07:41
This is a first. I don't think my wife's talking tonight. 02:07:43
And she doesn't have laryngitis or anything like that. 02:07:46
But uh. 02:07:49
This hasn't been very fun. 02:07:50
And hopefully good comes out of it, I really do. 02:07:52
I know sometimes there needs to be some storming and so on. 02:07:55
But we do need to move forward again, said the last time. We're all on the same team. 02:08:00
But I'm not going to talk about something a little bit different too that. 02:08:06
Also, I think it's wrong too that we have to wait 195 minutes before the public comments. 02:08:10
I'm not sure why the closed session had to be wholeheld when it did. 02:08:15
Why it's not held at the end like it has been before? 02:08:18
Maybe there's a reason for it? 02:08:21
But waiting over three hours for it to be able to make public, public comments isn't right. 02:08:24
At least isn't isn't good. 02:08:30
I'll say that, but my wife and I attended the Planning Commission last week. 02:08:32
And they talked about the grocery store. 02:08:37
And a couple of things troubled me. 02:08:39
One is that we found out that the owners of the grocery store is Flagboro. 02:08:42
We were told. 02:08:48
And leaves. 02:08:50
Lisa's managing it. 02:08:51
And to me, that just, I don't know, just doesn't sit right with me. 02:08:53
It would seem like we should would. 02:08:58
We thought, and I'm not sure any people on the council even knew that. 02:09:00
That black borough is the owner of the grocery store. 02:09:04
And that that bothers me because they just. 02:09:08
Just seemed like they got their hand in everything and they're controlling everything over there. 02:09:14
And my wife and I wrote a letter a long time ago that. 02:09:19
Well, last year of it to the council and mayor that. 02:09:21
Said this looks like the. 02:09:25
Flagborough is controlling everything and. 02:09:27
And we're subservient to them. 02:09:29
Does that troubled me? You know, nothing troubled me about the grocery stores, the design. 02:09:31
They want the when the trucks come to deliver. 02:09:35
They have to block a public road to back in. 02:09:38
And poor design. 02:09:42
And, you know, people said, well, we'll be coming in the wee hours of the morning. You can't assume that. 02:09:44
They come all times of the day. 02:09:49
And then they say, well, it's not a very busy road or whatever, but that bothers me too, that. 02:09:52
They have to just put every little square inch in there for their benefit to make their dollar. 02:09:57
Instead of making it a better place for the people of Vineyard. 02:10:03
And I just wanted to express those comments and. 02:10:06
Thank you very much. 02:10:10
Thanks. All right. I'm Justin Hammer. I live in the Solstice neighborhood. I sent an e-mail to everybody. I just want to put a 02:10:12
face to the words. Bit of a tonal shift, I think, but. 02:10:18
I just want to. I noticed in the papers that I got that. 02:10:24
Public comments are supposed to be for non agenda items so. 02:10:29
Just a couple other things for my e-mail that I. 02:10:32
I sent you about public safety stuff. 02:10:34
I've talked to the mayor. 02:10:38
Couple times over the last couple years about off leash dogs. That's just continue. 02:10:39
Continual thing that I see when I'm out running. 02:10:44
It's always there's all and it's probably a weekly occurrence where I have a dog that comes after me. Thankfully nothing bad has 02:10:47
happened so far. 02:10:50
And then in addition to that, just another. 02:10:54
Point for my e-mail I wanted to reiterate about. 02:10:57
Just car safety in general, I think that. 02:11:00
There's there are a number of streets where I especially recognize that need extra attention when I'm out. 02:11:03
Anytime somebody's turning on the Main Street feels like they're not looking both ways left and right for pedestrians, and I know 02:11:09
that. 02:11:13
One of our paths goes right along there as well, so I think both but. 02:11:16
Yeah, we've already talked about the golf carts and everything and obviously. 02:11:21
That was in my e-mail too, but yeah, so. 02:11:26
I think if there's anything I can do to continue to facilitate the conversation, I'm happy to do that. I will continue to be 02:11:31
recording my runs as well. I don't know if I need to. 02:11:35
Keep sending updates or whatever, but umm yeah. Open to the conversation so thanks. Thank you. 02:11:40
All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our consent agenda. 02:11:48
Do I need a motion? 02:11:54
I move to approve the consent items as presented. Thank you. First by Marty. Can I get a second? 02:12:02
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 02:12:09
All right, we'll move on to our business items public hearing for zoning text amendment Sections 151250 and 1532 to 20. 02:12:13
We'll go into the public hearing and then we will. 02:12:23
Have this discussion, Morgan, will you be talking about this? 02:12:27
Yes, OK. 02:12:32
Can I get a motion to go into a public hearing? 02:12:34
So moved. Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 02:12:36
2nd thank you Sarah. All in favor. 02:12:40
Aye. All right, go ahead, Morgan. OK, great. I'm gonna pull the map really quick to show you the. 02:12:42
Part of the city that would be affected by this change. 02:12:49
OK, Thank you, Mayor and members of the council wanted to. 02:13:26
Show you really quickly that this change. 02:13:30
Affects the FOI district. This is from Enigma 3. 02:13:33
They're a studio. 02:13:38
On the Northside of the city. 02:13:41
Located off the 1600 N. 02:13:43
They provide studio space. 02:13:45
For filming. 02:13:48
And they are requesting. 02:13:50
A text amendment to the FOI district to allow for. 02:13:52
Events and specifically Event centers. 02:13:56
To operate as conditional use permit. 02:14:02
The Planning Commission did review this change. They recommended approval to the. 02:14:05
To the City Council. 02:14:11
With the amendment that a definition presents center be added. 02:14:12
Umm, this right here shows. 02:14:19
The table. 02:14:24
So this is just to come back a cross section of the table event centers being added. 02:14:25
Conditional use being put into the FOI. 02:14:29
There are other districts throughout the city where we can probably have event centers as well. We are doing a larger kind of bulk 02:14:32
amendment to our zoning code. 02:14:37
But that so potentially we could fit that into like the retail districts. There's there's some other areas that we think it would 02:14:42
be really beneficial. 02:14:46
Overall, we found that the proposal. 02:14:50
Would be a very +1 who would bring people from outside the city into the city. So from an economic development standpoint, that 02:14:53
would be really helpful. 02:14:57
Additionally, the conditional use permit process would allow the Planning Commission to impose conditions to mitigate any 02:15:01
potential impacts. 02:15:04
You know, to safety to the public or to impact to surrounding neighbors. 02:15:09
Some of those impacts that we kind of looked at in the FOI district could be. 02:15:13
The mixing of. 02:15:18
You know, visitor parking and traffic with that of trucks and deliveries. 02:15:20
And so the conditional use permit process would allow for the Planning Commission to control some of the hours of operation, 02:15:26
ensure that there's traffic. 02:15:30
Control on site. 02:15:36
That parking areas are well lit. Typically in the industrial districts, you know there are some parking lots that a little bit 02:15:38
darker. This would affect the whole FOI. 02:15:42
But we do know that they would propose. 02:15:46
Having an Event Center. 02:15:49
Or more regularly scheduled events that would fall under the Event Center use on their property. 02:15:51
And so with that, staff is also recommending approval and standard for any questions. 02:15:58
OK, are there any questions from the Council? 02:16:05
Actually, I'll put it to the public. Any questions for the public? 02:16:07
A lot of time. 02:16:13
OK, let's go ahead and go out of a public hearing. 02:16:16
Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second, second, second by Marty all in favor? 02:16:19
OK. 02:16:25
Council questions. 02:16:26
We we each have a map again. 02:16:28
I didn't see the map. 02:16:30
While you're doing. 02:16:33
If you're really, never mind. 02:16:35
So the the FOI district is the district that covers a large portion of the northeastern part of the city. 02:16:37
FOI stands for Flex office Industrial, so that's where we do have a lot of flex office. 02:16:45
Typically warehouses with like a retail frontage or an office frontage. 02:16:49
So that's kind of the primary building form that you see up there. 02:16:53
The applicant is intending to do more regular events, if you remember. 02:16:58
I think it was a few months ago the there was a one off approval before for an event up there so this would allow them. 02:17:04
To dysfunction as a regular business who would provide them another revenue source. 02:17:10
And we feel it would be very positive. 02:17:16
OK. Any additional questions? Otherwise I need a motion. 02:17:18
I support it. 02:17:24
They expect all the first by Jake. Can I get a second? 02:17:25
Second Second by Sarah. 02:17:29
I'll do roll call, say does this go through the whole property? So anyone in the foyer area cannot do this? Yeah. So what they 02:17:31
would be allowed to do is to apply for conditional use permit, then they they would go to the Planning Commission. And so the 02:17:37
Planning Commission could right size it depending on where it goes. 02:17:42
And I met with them. It makes sense and we need to be flexible for businesses in that area to. 02:17:48
Stay in business when business models change. 02:17:53
Shift, yeah, this is also a use that would be positive for other businesses and providing a place for other businesses to hold 02:17:56
events. And they said that's their primary function. I think that then had a large event there. 02:18:01
This would be good for our business community as well. OK, any further discussion? 02:18:06
OK, Shake. 02:18:12
Aye, Amber, aye aye, Marty, Sarah. 02:18:13
Yes. All right. We'll go into our second public hearing. This is the consolidated fee schedule amendment Resolution 2022 for 2025. 02:18:17
Our utility billing clerk, Maria will come and present. I need a motion to go into a public hearing. So moved. Thank you. Marty, 02:18:25
can I get a second? 02:18:29
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, Aye. We're now in a public hearing. 02:18:33
So I submitted this and I wanted to just give you guys an update that I did change some today. 02:18:38
This week we got clarification, worrying that I needed to do. 02:18:44
So the ones that we changed as of today that you might have not seen are going to be. 02:18:47
The fire hydrant meter. 02:18:52
We're going to do a residential daily rental fee that's going to be for people that are renting it out. 02:18:54
To like fill up their pools so instead of charging them. 02:19:00
The commercial price, we're going to do $10 a day plus the residential fee. 02:19:04
For water usage and then. 02:19:08
For fire hydrant meters for the commercial use. 02:19:12
We've changed it to now say that they will be paying. 02:19:16
The base rate for a three inch meter every month. 02:19:19
And then after the that will be for the initial 5000 gallons. After that they'll go to the tiered rate. 02:19:21
On the commercial usage, will you bring up any other changes for the public if you want me to, yeah, yes. 02:19:27
Oh yeah. Do we have it that we could pull it up? 02:19:36
If not, you can read them if it's in the staff report. Yeah, give me a second. 02:19:38
I'm assuming they're red lines, so we can probably, yeah, a little red line. So #5 is gonna be the first one. 02:20:22
At the bottom so. 02:20:30
Non vineyard resident business fee so this is for. 02:20:32
Water rates if they are outside of the city. 02:20:36
So this has got to be kind of towards Linden Marina since we service them. 02:20:39
Since they are not Vineyard, residents are not in Vineyard, we would charge them double the rate. 02:20:43
So that's just adding that in there. 02:20:48
Next one. 02:20:50
Is collection. So as of now we do not have a collections policy in place. That's something that I've been working on for the last 02:20:52
year. 02:20:55
And we have kind of finalized it to where we're going. We're going with one. So we were just adding it into the fee schedule. 02:21:00
This will be for. 02:21:06
Any unpaid utility bills, fees, or civil penalties that are not paid. 02:21:07
Then we'll just go into collections after. 02:21:11
30 days past the due date, OK. 02:21:14
And then? 02:21:18
Eric kind of brought it up. 02:21:19
Yeah. 02:21:21
So collections like. 02:21:23
Outside of the city where we send it out. 02:21:25
So. 02:21:29
Because how it's worked as of now is. 02:21:30
We've never, we haven't had a collection agency in years. There's. 02:21:32
Been discussions if there's been one in the past but we haven't used one. 02:21:36
Since a lot of people have known. 02:21:40
But that's very standard for every city to have. 02:21:42
Well, I mean like. 02:21:44
When I get a bill sent to collections I feel like my life has ended because I care about my credit score. So usually this is going 02:21:46
to be For the most part, the unpaid utility bills are for people who have moved out of the city and we can't get contact with. 02:21:52
Would we want to say something like six years? I just feel like 30 days is that would be something we'd have to change in the in 02:21:59
the code. So in the code right now, it states 30 days. So that's why I put that on there. 02:22:05
That could be something that we could look into most what cities do, and I've contacted every city in Utah County. 02:22:10
Is they all typically do 30 days so and they kind of have some lenience. 02:22:17
What they do is they'll send out a. 02:22:23
Initial letter that says hey here's. 02:22:25
You'll notice you owe this past due balance. 02:22:28
They'll send a warning saying hey now you're going to go to collections if you don't pay within this time frame. 02:22:31
At that point goes to collections. 02:22:35
I believe from what I remember there's only. 02:22:37
Two to three cities that go past. 02:22:40
30 days and usually they go to 45 days. 02:22:43
And that's kind of where they give their cutoff. For the most part, how we've been is very lenient. 02:22:46
And even then, we typically would probably be a lot more lenient. They're working with us. This is going to be for people who. 02:22:50
Haven't yet in contact with us. 02:22:57
Have walked our numbers anything like that where we can't reach out to them. 02:22:58
I think it's kind of an aggressive policy. 02:23:04
I mean, we can focus on this later, I guess. Yeah, we can. We can look at changing in the code if you want to change it to an 02:23:06
additional phase as of now, because it's in the code. That's why I put 30 days. I just worry. 02:23:12
For people that might not check their it sounds like. 02:23:17
What you're doing is great. I just think that that's so this isn't for like people typically who are in the city, So how I usually 02:23:21
do it. 02:23:25
As I reach out to them multiple times and I usually get a response. So this is more for people, like I said, who have moved out of 02:23:29
Vineyard and are no longer residents. 02:23:32
So we have. 02:23:36
They even offer payment plans and then they put on cycles. So we have about 10 accounts that are closed right now for people who 02:23:38
have not been here in. 02:23:42
A couple years and we haven't been able to reach them out. 02:23:46
And right now we have. 02:23:49
An account balance of $5000 that we haven't been able to collect on, but those accounts would clearly be past 30 days if they 02:23:52
haven't lived here. So I'm just saying as a policy. 02:23:57
I still want to read. Yeah, we can do that. 02:24:03
Yeah. So I can put that down, but yeah. And then. 02:24:07
I said for sanitation fees, Eric talked about that, but Republics is raising their fees, so we. 02:24:11
Have to also. 02:24:17
To kind of keep up with that. 02:24:18
Page 8. That's fun. 02:24:21
Food truck vendor fees. This is for special events. 02:24:25
They just didn't have one in place. 02:24:29
This is so that they can now have a fee for their license. 02:24:31
Personality just changed the staff per person. We decided to just do 1 ring instead of having. 02:24:36
Separate rates for individual departments. 02:24:41
#9. 02:24:44
Illegal trash dumping that wasn't in place before so that we have added a fry enough $250 for that. 02:24:47
On that one. 02:24:54
Maybe there's something we could do at another time, but is there something for wetland? 02:24:56
Dump it. 02:25:03
It seems like maybe that's something we need to talk with Jamie on. But yeah, if there's people dumping in like Sunset Lands area 02:25:04
that we, we may want to bump that up a little bit, but that can be pretty bad. I mean, we do get that. 02:25:10
So yeah, the next time around. 02:25:17
#11. 02:25:23
Water sampling cost of 10%. 02:25:31
And there's $300. 02:25:34
Fee as any more Naseem. 02:25:36
The rest of it on there is just kind of adding words that make more sense. Public works is also part. 02:25:40
Of that engineering team, so we've added that. 02:25:45
Uh, same deal. 02:25:49
Go down more. 02:25:54
This is all just red line because they've redone the whole page, so the next page will just show all of the new fees. 02:25:56
And then the last one. 02:26:14
Which we've talked about most of them. 02:26:16
The only other ones that I haven't talked on that page are Unauthorized opening of meter box. 02:26:19
And water main flushing, those have been added. 02:26:24
OK. Is that it? Yeah. 02:26:28
Any questions from the public? 02:26:30
OK, I need to go out of the public hearing. I need a motion. 02:26:34
So moved. Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 02:26:40
Second, second by Sarah, all in favor. Thank you. Any questions or comments by the Council? 02:26:43
I was just hoping Maria would explain the report a concern. 02:26:50
I talked to her today about that. 02:26:55
Because I I know I've seen it on the city page. 02:26:58
But I didn't, it didn't really register. Will you, will you come back up? 02:27:01
And just explain what you. 02:27:04
Told me today because I think it's really beneficial if we're. 02:27:07
In unison where we. 02:27:11
On social media, if we can just. 02:27:13
Direct people back to the report of concern instead of trying to solve it and reach out I. 02:27:16
Done that a few times trying to reach out to cash in this game. 02:27:21
Where I can just given to you and then anyway just tell everything Yeah. So a part of my. 02:27:24
I'm part time in Utility billing. I'm also part time in Neighborhood Services Coordinator. 02:27:30
So that also entails code enforcement for the city. 02:27:35
What we've kind of discussed today is kind of our what our plans are going forward. 02:27:39
One of the biggest things that I've noticed is Enemy and cash have kind of talked about this is on social media we've been 02:27:44
getting. 02:27:47
A lot of people just saying, hey, the city's not doing anything and they'll post their concerns to Facebook. 02:27:50
And Jenna kind of talked about it earlier. 02:27:55
Where people are kind of venting their issues or what they're what they're seeing in terms of concerns. 02:27:58
But they're not sending it to me through the report of concern. 02:28:04
So half the time I'm not getting it. 02:28:08
And so I've gotten calls saying, hey, I made this post and nobody's going back to me. 02:28:10
And I have to then say, well, that's not the right channel. 02:28:15
So. 02:28:18
What we've kind of talked about is. 02:28:19
If while you guys are on Facebook and you do see these comments where people are saying hey there's Wasps here or. 02:28:20
Hey, there's garbage here that we want to discuss. 02:28:27
If you could, then just instead of. 02:28:29
Some people have been. 02:28:32
Saying, oh, I wish the city would. 02:28:33
Get back to you. I hope I'll tell the city to reach back to you. What they should, what I would prefer. 02:28:36
Is to say. 02:28:42
Here's the Report of concern link. Please make. 02:28:43
A report here. 02:28:46
And then someone will get back to you and then that would go to me. 02:28:47
And I could look into it and work on it. 02:28:50
Perfect. Yeah. And can you tell me about your news, your new software? 02:28:53
Oh yeah. So we do have new software that we just got, which is Civic Review. 02:28:57
That has gotten a lot easier because before what we would do is it was a spreadsheet. 02:29:03
That I would mark everybody's information, address, phone number. 02:29:08
And then what I had done and contacted. 02:29:13
What this new? 02:29:16
Software does. 02:29:17
Is it will give me the capabilities to notify people what process they're in? 02:29:19
So when a concern comes in, I can say. 02:29:24
In progress. 02:29:28
Investigating a resolve and then that will send them an e-mail to let them know where they're at in the process. 02:29:29
So they know when I'm working on it, when I've looked at it and what it's done and during those. 02:29:35
Once it's resolved or in the process, I can write a note. 02:29:41
And it'll also send it with that notification. So if it says resolved, it'll say. 02:29:45
Dear so and so this is I've looked into this. This is what I've done. 02:29:49
Please reach out to me if you have any other questions and then I'll send it with them. 02:29:53
And then that will also give me a tracking system so I can see. 02:29:57
What areas might be more concerned? 02:30:01
And then like. 02:30:06
What areas, what issues are there? So if there's a lot of weeds? 02:30:08
A lot of like parking issues, occupancy, anything like that. 02:30:13
OK. I love that. Thank you. 02:30:17
All right, I need a motion. 02:30:19
Is that what Marty showed today? 02:30:24
I moved to adopt Resolution 2024-25, Consolidated fee schedule amendments. 02:30:28
Presented as presented by staff. All right, I have a first time Marty. Can I get a second? 02:30:35
Second Second by Sarah. 02:30:39
I'll do this by roll call Jake. 02:30:42
This is 10.3 right? 02:30:44
10.2. 02:30:47
Amber aye. 02:30:50
All right, Marty. Yay, Sarah. Yes. 02:30:52
All right, that brings us to 10.3 discussing an action adoption of the fiscal year 2024-2025 budget Resolution 2024-24. 02:30:55
And. 02:31:06
Christy, yes, you will be. 02:31:08
Disgusting. 02:31:11
Thank you, Mayor. 02:31:20
I feel like we've talked. 02:31:23
Very much about the budget in the last couple months. 02:31:25
I feel like the council is probably very familiar with it, as are many of the residents. 02:31:28
Umm, I just wanted to mention some of the changes that had happened since 2 weeks ago. It was tabled and there have been some 02:31:34
housekeeping items that have come up since then. Just some changes in some estimates. 02:31:39
As well as some other things that we were trying to. 02:31:44
Cut everywhere we could. 02:31:48
I just wanted to make the citizens and council members aware of that. 02:31:50
In the communications budget, we did cut. 02:31:54
25,000 related to a consultant. 02:31:58
In the capital. 02:32:02
Projects. 02:32:03
Budget We took out the modular roundabouts that had been discussed. 02:32:06
And we have tabled that. 02:32:10
To help. 02:32:12
With the fund balance as well. 02:32:14
There were some adjustments that were needed related to water use in the parks and the public works maintenance. 02:32:16
Those allocations needed to be adjusted and moved to different funds and I was able to take care of that. 02:32:24
And roundabout, in the end, we were able to decrease the prior use of fund balance for the general fund with almost $190,000. 02:32:31
So at this time I just ask that the Council approve the budget for fiscal year 25. 02:32:40
I'm also mentioning that we by law, have to have a budget approved. 02:32:46
And uploaded to the state website by the end of this month. So this is kind of an important. 02:32:50
Action that we have, that we are coming to. 02:32:55
Perfect. Thank you so much. 02:32:59
Council, can I would anybody like to make comment? Jake? I'm gonna rotate the comments really quick. 02:33:01
Umm, Sarah Amber, do you? 02:33:07
It's come a long way. 02:33:11
It's been a lot of work, a lot of input from a lot of different people, and you've managed it very well. Thank you very much. 02:33:13
Thank you, Sir. I agree. I appreciate your patience and. 02:33:20
Answering all of the questions. 02:33:24
That you did and. 02:33:27
And the. 02:33:28
The line items that you did, that you broke down for me for miscellaneous and the other things that you did. 02:33:31
Made a big difference and I appreciate everything that you've done. 02:33:36
Thank you. 02:33:39
Cried Jake. 02:33:40
What is the total dollar amount that was cut? 02:33:42
Did you add that up? 02:33:45
The total decrease in prior year from the previous from two months because you said the roundabout? 02:33:48
It's a roundabout with 405,000 coming from the capital projects fund. You cut that whole thing out. 02:33:53
Yes. And then did you add up all of the cuts from the past two weeks just so that it's on the record of what was the total dollar 02:33:59
amount? What was it? 02:34:03
Which fund would you like all of the various? I don't have a total by all of them, but they obviously have to balance. 02:34:08
Like was there a total impact on it of all the cuts? 02:34:18
Yes, we had $190,000 additional in the general fund that we did not have to use prior year fund balance when all was said and 02:34:22
done. 02:34:26
OK. Thank you. I appreciate any cut we can get. 02:34:30
I I don't have any. 02:34:35
Questions or comments? Besides, thank you for your hard work. 02:34:38
I know it's been a rough one. 02:34:41
Yeah. Thank you so much. And we appreciate you working with us and kind of figuring out different ways to still make those 02:34:44
priorities a priority for our residents, but finding different ways to offset costs and pay for them in different ways. So we 02:34:50
really appreciate you've done a marvelous job all. 02:34:55
Our staff has, it's been incredible. 02:35:01
All right, with that I need a motion. 02:35:03
I move to adopt resolution 2024. 02:35:08
2024-24 The Vineyard City Fiscal Year 2024 Dash 2025 budget as presented by. Hey, I have a first time already, can I get a second? 02:35:12
Second Second by Sarah. 02:35:22
I'll do this by roll call Sarah. 02:35:24
Yes, Marty. 02:35:27
Yeah, Yes, Amber. 02:35:29
Hi, Sanjay. 02:35:30
OK. 10.4 was a public hearing that's being postponed to a later date. So I'm going to go ahead and adjourn this meeting. Thank you 02:35:32
for coming. We have reports. 02:35:37
Oh, did you have something in the park? Yeah, it's my only time I get to talk. 02:35:42
I wanted to go through that. 02:35:46
I, you know, you get 30 minutes to calm down and I think that's why it's important to meet in person. 02:35:51
I don't think a Finance Committee, if it was selected like I read through and I don't know if Jamie, you said that of like. 02:35:58
The parameters like the mayor would pick it and then we would have consent and it's the city manager on it and. 02:36:04
A financial person you know. 02:36:10
Whole purpose was to get people outside to have a double check on it. 02:36:12
And as long as. 02:36:16
We can have. 02:36:18
A witness and an advisor, depending on the issue, whether it be RDA that's going to be on the council, then you bring somebody 02:36:20
with that or a CPA. 02:36:23
Or, you know, different people, a strong count person with Eric where it's like, hey, there's somebody there. 02:36:27
I I really want to mend whatever relationship and look for a pathway forward with Eric. 02:36:33
And I know that is with. 02:36:38
Having someone there. 02:36:40
When there's a misunderstanding. 02:36:42
You know, umm. 02:36:44
You can't just. 02:36:45
Write 2 sentence after and say these are the two things that happened in a 60 minute meeting, right? 02:36:47
And a lot of accusations. 02:36:53
Are hurting our city instead of like what did or did not happen. So fighting for I just have a quick question. 02:36:55
Are you making a report to us with something new? 02:37:02
So that's the first thing I wanted to cover. 02:37:06
The second thing is, is on our social media that today we had a lot of people just explode about. 02:37:08
The parking agreement that we passed a couple of weeks ago. 02:37:15
And the social media post detailed a lot of the various things. So then I went in and looked at it. 02:37:19
And I just feel like we missed an opportunity by not negotiating that in. 02:37:24
An open working session where it wasn't advertised and nobody really knew about it. 02:37:29
I wasn't even in the negotiations, it was just the two of you. 02:37:37
And I just, they were popping up different things and I was like, I can't. 02:37:41
Sorry, Marty and Sarah, I could be more clear. You were invited. I went in your place. 02:37:46
No, I was told I couldn't go. No. 02:37:51
Sarah called me and said Jake couldn't go to this meeting. 02:37:54
So I went to the HOA board to negotiate. 02:37:58
And we all discussed it publicly as board. But continue, let's not have a back and forth we're trying to leave. 02:38:02
I thought to try to get into that HR meeting. It looks like you guys disagree. Go ahead, next thing. 02:38:07
And I just feel like in getting so many people's feedback today where it just hit, it was like. 02:38:14
Umm, when we get hot button issues instead of having one or two of us go and meet. 02:38:20
Bringing that back in and saying, hey, it looks like there's this is going to be contentious. 02:38:27
Can we do a working session so that people could come in? 02:38:32
Talk about. I know we did a working session. 02:38:35
But it wasn't advertised as 24 hours. 02:38:37
And I'm just hearing so many people just wish, I wish I would have known because I don't like the agreement. I'm like, are we 02:38:40
still talking about the parking thing? 02:38:43
I'm talking about the culture of doing open. 02:38:47
City Council working session. So I guess what I want to say is Sarah held multiple meetings. This has gone on for two years. There 02:38:50
have been multiple discussions. 02:38:54
They went and did surveys for people. It was publicized. 02:38:59
And I feel like not only was it publicized to the HOA, but the HOA had the ability to publicize it even further. So right. But I 02:39:04
wasn't in the agreement cutting of the terms. It was just the three of no, you were it was public. And when we. 02:39:11
Brought it here. When we do it, we do it before the people. When we, we, we debate and we deliberate before the people and the 02:39:19
negotiations happen here. So if you're not assigned to it, you do those negotiations here. I wasn't in that room, but I made my 02:39:24
negotiations here. 02:39:30
OK, well, and Fred came to speak to everybody. 02:39:36
And then? 02:39:39
It was on the agenda and I asked them to postpone it for two more weeks so everybody could go through it and everybody could talk 02:39:41
about it. 02:39:44
So if you didn't do that, I. 02:39:48
I don't know what to tell you. 02:39:50
I know I did. And I came and heard it and I said it was here and I said please postpone it because I haven't had time to read 02:39:52
through it really well. So you could have done the same thing. I read it. Well, her point is it wasn't 24 hours for the people. 02:39:57
And what I'm saying is, is what I'm saying is, is I read it. 02:40:01
And there were a few HOA leaders that read it. 02:40:06
And I was like, OK, are we happy? But that's a culture of transparency. People know about it. Like if this is important to you, 02:40:09
it's it's important to all of us. 02:40:13
But we all have the opportunity. If you notice there's something that's a hot button item that you know there's going to be a huge 02:40:18
interest in, please, like you utilize social media probably more than any of us. Please let everyone know. 02:40:24
I think we all get kind of disappointed when you come after the fact and then. 02:40:31
I like honestly, I I was texting could we do this in an open meeting? Could we do this? But we did do it in an open meeting, 2 02:40:35
meetings. You're just not acknowledging that. 02:40:40
The same people in those discussions were here before us, having the negotiation with us. 02:40:45
I saw them in the audience. We were able to have the negotiation and had you wanted to do anything different, you could have done 02:40:50
it. Not to mention they had that negotiation before the people. 02:40:54
From multiple, not just these two meters, I will be very clear. Hey, let's stop and and bring those negotiations into a working 02:40:59
session before an agreement as Matt, because what they felt like is the three of you guys caked it. Just the three. They were 02:41:05
like, hey, you three. There is a whole, there was a whole group of and I wasn't there. I made my discussions here in this meeting 02:41:11
and they came back to me and I was like, I'm not even in it. Like I came back and said, are you good with it? 02:41:17
Because you keep saying we can deed the deed, the road over to them. There's lots of options. Here's the thing. That's just not 02:41:24
true. Yeah. And The thing is, you're talking about a culture of transparency. This is how we do it here. This is the culture of 02:41:29
transparency. 02:41:33
I wasn't at the meetings. Amber wasn't in the meetings, You weren't in the meetings because we're not assigned to them. So we make 02:41:38
our negotiations before the public. 02:41:41
That's how we do it. We don't do it in quorums. We do our quorums here before the public so that they can see our negotiations. 02:41:45
Well, I think the feedback that I got was that if they would have had a third vote and I kept saying, well, I'm right here. I 02:41:50
don't know about, well, the mayor is going to vote this way. And I said. 02:41:55
Well let's just do this in open working system, just giving feedback to be able to improve. I am not our attacking, I'm just 02:42:01
saying like I feel like. 02:42:05
Thank you representing what really happened nor are you acknowledged really helpful if you would just go back and acknowledge the 02:42:09
fact that where they weren't allowed to park there. 02:42:13
Overnight now they're allowed to park there. I'm not. There's a small fee, so it would be really, really wise. 02:42:18
For you to go back and acknowledge the win. 02:42:23
And also acknowledge it's a slight improvement and also acknowledge that we did it in the Republic. We had a discussion in the 02:42:27
public. It wasn't 24 hours, so that's not true. We had multiple meetings on this and it didn't start with those two meetings. But 02:42:32
if you remember that public comment, I. 02:42:37
I spoke up right then and said, whoa, nobody knows about this because I was messaging each way, people going, hey, this was 02:42:43
noticed 24 hours again, we postponed it. Two weeks we postponed it. 02:42:48
I didn't eat and and that's the that's the hard part. I love the point that the council said. 02:42:53
Go ahead and notify people and let them know how. You don't have to listen to them. Just saying I it's not that you're just giving 02:43:00
feedback. You're also saying that we are not doing things a certain way. We're disagreeing with you. 02:43:05
And that's OK. We can disagree. Rather than just giving feedback, why don't you explain to the community what the process was so 02:43:11
that they can understand because you're you're there. You know what happened? No, I wasn't in any way. I have no idea what. No, 02:43:18
you know, there was social media where people are saying there was no meeting, there was no public discussion. And you could go 02:43:24
back and say. 02:43:31
We have this on the agenda and then we pushed it out right to make sure to give you plenty of time and then you could take 02:43:37
ownership and say, I'm so sorry that I didn't make it more clear as your Councilman. Not to mention it happened for two years. So 02:43:43
we're going to go ahead and go to the next one. Thank you for sharing. 02:43:49
With you, we like feedback. We disagree with you. That's good. That's good. OK, maybe we'll try it. Maybe next. You know? No. 02:43:56
You're saying we have no culture of discussion, no culture of transparency. We only do things in 24 hours. We don't involve 02:44:02
anybody. All of these things we disagree with you on. It's not that we don't like feedback. We disagree. 02:44:08
The next thing is. 02:44:15
I know in code from the last couple of meetings that. 02:44:18
We the government, the change of government would require. 02:44:21
Our form of government. 02:44:26
Would only allow two of us there because you hold a standing meeting. 02:44:27
Yet you don't attend my meetings with Eric. 02:44:31
And it would be amazing. 02:44:34
Since it's just Eric that if I could know ahead of time. Just some courtesy. 02:44:36
So that I could invite Marty or Amber or Sarah to be there. 02:44:41
Because you don't attend any of my meetings. So I did attend your meeting online for one of them and I did attend a multiple of 02:44:45
your meetings in person. 02:44:49
And the one that the last one, I didn't attend your meeting because I didn't actually see it on my calendar because my calendars 02:44:52
weren't connected. I apologize for not being there, but it wasn't intentional. But anytime that I won't be there or can't be there 02:44:58
and I know I will let you know and other people will be able to. 02:45:03
You know, yeah, I'm with you on your block. You know, it blocks our ability to have more people. Yeah. Well, Sarah, Marty or 02:45:09
somebody said I'd love to be in the same meeting with her. Yeah, absolutely. You guys want a better relationship with Eric. I want 02:45:13
a better relationship. 02:45:17
And I think you guys being in the meeting would improve things. Yeah, I can support you on that. I support you on that 02:45:21
continuously. 02:45:24
The next thing? 02:45:30
I think, I think we're believing it's 10:00. I think I've. 02:45:32
I think I've done for that. 02:45:36
Does anybody have anything else to add? I skipped over the reports, but otherwise I'm going to adjourn. OK Origin, thank you. 02:45:38
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