City Council Regular Meeting
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Transcript
| Yeah, we're good. | 00:00:00 | |
| All right, we're rolling. We'll go ahead and start our Vineyard City Council meeting. It's Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 and the time | 00:00:05 | |
| is 638. | 00:00:10 | |
| And we will. We're going to pull something up from Item 8. It's one of our appointments. | 00:00:15 | |
| Our finance department recently underwent an interview process for our new treasurer and the City Council was all able to meet | 00:00:24 | |
| with the interview the interviewee, Zachary Adams and we had a great time meeting him and I I want to give some time for our. | 00:00:34 | |
| Finance director to come and introduce him before we make that appointment tonight. Thank you, mayor. We had a lot of great | 00:00:44 | |
| candidates that put in for this position and it took us weeks to review them and meet with the different candidates. As the mayor | 00:00:52 | |
| mentioned, HR and Eric, all the council members myself were able to interview all of the candidates and to decide on the best | 00:00:59 | |
| candidate for us. Zach Adams comes from three years at the State Tax Commission. | 00:01:07 | |
| And so we are really excited to have him here. I don't know if he wants to come introduce himself briefly, but like I said, we're | 00:01:15 | |
| excited to present him as our a recommendation for treasurer. Thank you. I felt really great about meeting Zach. I'm sorry to put | 00:01:22 | |
| you on the spot. You got invited up so. | 00:01:28 | |
| Come on up though, we're excited for this introduction. | 00:01:36 | |
| Nice to meet y'all, I'm Zach Adams. I'm from American Fork. | 00:01:40 | |
| I started my professional career with KPMG 1A Big Four, worked there for two years and did personal and business taxes for almost | 00:01:45 | |
| a year. And then I've been at the State Tax Commission for three years as a sales tax examiner, going business to business, | 00:01:53 | |
| meeting everybody and finding out how our community and intertwines and how everybody, how everybody lives. So I was very excited | 00:02:01 | |
| to hear back on the second and third interviews and I hope I can be a good addition to the team here so. | 00:02:08 | |
| Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. | 00:02:16 | |
| Well, like I was saying, and thank you for taking the time to come up. I have snuck back there and said, do you want to say any | 00:02:18 | |
| words? And but I convinced Chrissy right before this that I thought it was a good idea. So well done. Well done everybody. Anyway, | 00:02:24 | |
| we're very excited that you're here. Council, do you have any questions? Otherwise, I just would love some support and a motion | 00:02:30 | |
| for this appointment. | 00:02:36 | |
| I move to approve the Mayor's appointment of Zachary Adams as Treasurer as presented. | 00:02:44 | |
| 1st, I'm already second by Sarah. Any discussion? | 00:02:49 | |
| All right. Seeing as there's none, I just need an approval. All in favor, aye? | 00:02:54 | |
| OK, and Andrew is excused. Thank you so much. And because you're here, Andrew even said a few words. We're going to have you come | 00:03:02 | |
| up and we'll swear you in. | 00:03:06 | |
| I. | 00:03:22 | |
| Tyrone Adams having been appointed district, Have you been appointed as the Treasurer? Solemnly swear, Do solemnly swear that I | 00:03:29 | |
| will support, obey, and defend. That I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of | 00:03:36 | |
| the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Utah, and the Constitution of the State of Utah. And then I will discharge | 00:03:42 | |
| the duties of my office, and then I will discharge the duties of my office with the with fidelity. | 00:03:48 | |
| Congratulations, you're welcome. | 00:03:55 | |
| Welcome to the team. | 00:04:02 | |
| All right, we will return back to the proclamation for declaring that May 5th, May 11th is in 2024 as Vineyard City Drinking Water | 00:04:04 | |
| Week, and I will be signing that proclamation and they'll be posted for you to read. We'll move into our work session and we're | 00:04:11 | |
| going to start out by having a discussion on forms of government and our City Attorney, Jamie Blakesley will lead us in that | 00:04:18 | |
| discussion. | 00:04:24 | |
| Thank you, Mayor. | 00:04:32 | |
| A few different council members asked to have a discussion on forms of government and what the options are that are available to | 00:04:35 | |
| the city. | 00:04:39 | |
| If it wishes to change its form of government and if it decides to do it, what process would it follow to do it? And what are the | 00:04:44 | |
| differences and between the different options? I want to give just a little bit of a preamble about my role in this kind of a | 00:04:51 | |
| process. And this is information a little bit about the city attorney. Generally I, I get asked from time to time. Well, you | 00:04:59 | |
| represent me. I'm a city official, just not engineered, but just in general. | 00:05:07 | |
| And my answer to that always is no. | 00:05:15 | |
| My role as a city attorney as I represent the entity. | 00:05:18 | |
| And so I represent the city and I take direction from the council as a whole. | 00:05:21 | |
| Because the council controls the legislative, administrative and executive functions within the city, The mayor then is the chief | 00:05:28 | |
| executive and I will provide her advice in her role in that capacity. And various council members have roles within the council | 00:05:35 | |
| and I will advise them. And the city manager and staff have roles within city government and I will advise them. But it's not my | 00:05:43 | |
| job to represent anyone person as an individual. | 00:05:50 | |
| Or anyone office as an individual. | 00:05:58 | |
| And so I've taken an attempt in preparing this presentation to be neutral as to. | 00:06:01 | |
| Any of the people that might be involved or affected by this kind of a choice and to take the role seriously that I represent the | 00:06:07 | |
| city as an entity. And in some ways that means in representing the entity, I represent the citizens that live within the city and | 00:06:14 | |
| I care for what occurs within vineyards when it be done well. | 00:06:21 | |
| A lawyer's role is a little bit interesting because when the council is making decisions or the voters are making decisions, my | 00:06:29 | |
| job is to provide the best advice I possibly can. And that includes advice on what is the law, but it also includes advice on | 00:06:37 | |
| based on my experience and the risks and the details in a situation, what are the ways it can go wrong or go sideways or be | 00:06:44 | |
| difficult. | 00:06:51 | |
| And I'll provide my best advice. | 00:06:59 | |
| And then always try to recognize that the decision is not mine to make, and once I provide that advice, I have to let go of it. | 00:07:02 | |
| And once a decision is made, my function shifts a little bit from advising on what the decision should be to supporting the | 00:07:11 | |
| decision that's made and helping it to be successful and effective. And I have practiced a lot over the years in that way. And | 00:07:18 | |
| that's the approach that I've taken to this. The other thing I need to mention, just as preamble, is that a lot of the information | 00:07:26 | |
| PowerPoints don't provide a place for footnotes. | 00:07:33 | |
| And I, it's important to cite your sources as a lawyer. And so most of the historical information that I'm going to talk about is | 00:07:41 | |
| from the Treatise on Local Government Law written by Roger Camp. It's called Forms of Local Government. It has a lot of academic | 00:07:48 | |
| information, historical information and legal information that I've drawn from in putting this presentation together. And so when | 00:07:55 | |
| I cite facts about historically how forms of government have been formed, succeeded, failed. | 00:08:03 | |
| All of that it's taken from that reference. They're not my own ideas. So let me jump into the presentation the. | 00:08:11 | |
| A big decision like this I feel like you can't make unless you know where you are and in in to know where you are, you need to | 00:08:18 | |
| know where you came from. And then you can chart a course and figure out where you're going. And so I'm going to talk a little bit | 00:08:24 | |
| about the histories of city government and then I'll talk about where we are as a city, and then I'll talk about the options going | 00:08:30 | |
| forward. | 00:08:36 | |
| And for the history of city government, United States government is based on the English common law. And so a lot of our | 00:08:43 | |
| structures, even city government structures, you can track all the way back to. | 00:08:49 | |
| Old England where you had boroughs and you had cities and they were forms of government that were self-sufficient and they began | 00:08:55 | |
| really with direct democracy. So you had every citizen had a vote that transitioned eventually to where you had a representative | 00:09:04 | |
| democracy of a sort where instead of every citizen they would elect somebody. | 00:09:12 | |
| Cities in the colonial revolutionary era and before. | 00:09:21 | |
| In England and when there were colonies, they didn't provide services like cities do today. They regulated industry and they | 00:09:26 | |
| regulated the natural resources that the cities would draw upon to support themselves. | 00:09:33 | |
| They largely had unicameral councils. It's a fancy legal word for one legislative body. They didn't have a house and a Senate, so | 00:09:42 | |
| to speak. They just had one big body that was in charge of what occurred in the city. The body was elected, but not everybody | 00:09:50 | |
| voted. You know, today we enjoy elections where anybody over the age of 18, regardless of gender, regardless of property, | 00:09:57 | |
| regardless of station or position or education, gets a vote. | 00:10:05 | |
| In their system, it wasn't that way. They were elected by Freeman, and then once somebody was elected, the vacancies on the | 00:10:12 | |
| councils were filled by the remaining members. | 00:10:17 | |
| And they served for life so much more like what we think of with judges where once they're appointed, they're they're there | 00:10:23 | |
| forever. | 00:10:27 | |
| But the other interesting thing is once you've created that, legislate that council. | 00:10:31 | |
| It repopulated itself without going back to the citizens that it served. | 00:10:37 | |
| So this is a really detailed slide that I'm not going to read, but when we talk about direct democracy, we often think of that as | 00:10:42 | |
| the purest form of democracy. | 00:10:47 | |
| Voters get a say. It has some history. We have examples of it working, but it mostly works only in small communities. And that's | 00:10:53 | |
| because you you can't do long range planning. It's hard to educate all the citizens adequately. It's it's a better system if you | 00:11:00 | |
| have individuals that are. | 00:11:06 | |
| That set apart their time, their effort to represent, educate on things and to be able to make decisions a little bit quicker. | 00:11:13 | |
| And they had real attendance issues in their councils. All of these slides will be public after this, and anybody who would like a | 00:11:22 | |
| copy of the presentation can get it. | 00:11:26 | |
| Then the United States becomes a country, right? We revolt from England. We form our own entity. If you think at the time, there's | 00:11:33 | |
| a real aversion to having kings and councils and and different. | 00:11:40 | |
| Entities in charge and you have AUS constitution that's established that has a bicameral legislation. We have a Senate and the | 00:11:49 | |
| House cities begin to mimic this. | 00:11:54 | |
| States assume control. States charter cities and many cities decide, just like the federal government, we're going to have two | 00:12:01 | |
| legislative bodies. They have one. | 00:12:06 | |
| Body that's an upper house. The upper house is elected at large and then they have a lower house that was elected by wards or | 00:12:13 | |
| districts, and then within the houses or the wards the mayor is selected. | 00:12:20 | |
| By them. | 00:12:27 | |
| The some examples out of Boston, you have a directly. You then transition to a directly elected mayor instead of a mayor that's | 00:12:30 | |
| chosen by these different organizations. The dual council role, not surprisingly, in city government, doesn't function very well. | 00:12:37 | |
| It's really burdensome. It's cumbersome. Where you have the people elected by wards and districts, you get a lot of infighting. | 00:12:44 | |
| I'm not going to give something to your neighborhood unless you give something to mine. | 00:12:52 | |
| Your neighborhoods at that time are mostly ethnic enclaves, and so it made for a lot of fighting among different groups. And then | 00:12:59 | |
| the control at the upper house tended to be to have a lot of graft, a lot of them giving contracts and services and things like | 00:13:06 | |
| that to their friends and associates and not to others. | 00:13:13 | |
| This is what we often call a weak mayor system. | 00:13:22 | |
| That if the council has the control, the mayor's chosen largely by the council again, it you've lacked strong leadership. That | 00:13:27 | |
| vacuum often leads to machine politics, things of that sort that don't function well. | 00:13:35 | |
| In the 1820s, from 1820 to 1900, you start seeing a change more toward a mayor council, a Commission form of government with a | 00:13:43 | |
| strong mayor, a strong mayor. | 00:13:49 | |
| Cities at this point in time start transitioning where they provide more services and so it's less about allocation of resources | 00:13:55 | |
| and and begins to be about how do you provide municipal services. | 00:14:01 | |
| In Brooklyn, as an example, in the late 1800s, you begin to have big construction projects. This is a picture of the Brooklyn | 00:14:08 | |
| Bridge they're building that. They begin building that in about 1880. | 00:14:14 | |
| And you need a mayor that can manage and govern a large infrastructure project. And so you begin in cities like this to be to see | 00:14:21 | |
| a little bit stronger role in an executive so that cities can carry out those kinds of public works. | 00:14:29 | |
| With a directly elected mayor, where you see these types of characteristics, that this is what historically is called a strong | 00:14:38 | |
| mayor government. You have a strong leadership with centralized responsibility. You can form policy, create big projects, | 00:14:45 | |
| implement things. But the disadvantages are that if you have too much responsibility in one person, it's difficult to check their | 00:14:52 | |
| activities and know what they're doing. | 00:15:00 | |
| The mayor also may not be a professional administrator and so you see with some mayors that functions well and with other mayors | 00:15:08 | |
| it doesn't function well. | 00:15:12 | |
| So in Galveston in 1900, a hurricane hits. This is a picture of that image. And they're the first city to transition from a mayor. | 00:15:17 | |
| Council form of government to a Commission form of government. And so they have essentially a council that's about a half dozen | 00:15:28 | |
| people, each individual. | 00:15:32 | |
| Each individual, each person on that council is assigned an area of responsibility within the city and they're given all the reins | 00:15:38 | |
| to be able to carry out that function. So you would have one council member and you would you would say you're the council member | 00:15:43 | |
| over public works. | 00:15:47 | |
| And you're the one over planning and you're the one over transportation. And within that realm, they function almost by Fiat and | 00:15:53 | |
| are able to carry out their obligations and their duties. | 00:15:59 | |
| The this can work in emergency situations. It can work because you make fast decisions if you're the only one responsible for that | 00:16:05 | |
| duty. It's a really simple organizational structure, but there's no coordination or cooperation. | 00:16:13 | |
| And there's a problem when you have the legislative and the policy functions held only by one party or one person. | 00:16:21 | |
| And you don't have anyone person you can point to to be responsible for. | 00:16:28 | |
| The overall administration of the. | 00:16:33 | |
| Of the government. | 00:16:35 | |
| The other difficulty they ran into is if you're reelecting or electing somebody that has a certain area of responsibility, it's | 00:16:36 | |
| hard to find another person with that same expertise. | 00:16:42 | |
| So from 1900 to 1920, you begin seeing a lot of cities tinker with different options. They they start separating politics from | 00:16:49 | |
| administration. And so you begin seeing council manager and you'll have a City Council and they'll hire a professional manager to | 00:16:55 | |
| handle the administrative and sometimes the executive functions of the city. And some of the things on the right hand side that | 00:17:02 | |
| you begin to see is stronger, stronger executives, different size councils. You start seeing a mix of at large and by water | 00:17:09 | |
| district. | 00:17:15 | |
| Appointments and you begin seeing a lot more nonpartisan elections than what had existed prior. | 00:17:23 | |
| The first city to do a council The first notable city to do a council manager form of government was Staunton, VA. | 00:17:30 | |
| So there are some advantages to this. You begin to introduce professional training and acumen into how the city government | 00:17:37 | |
| functions and performs. The council retains control, but you can run a city a little bit more like you would run a business and | 00:17:44 | |
| and have in a council manager. It would function a lot more like a board of directors and ACEO. | 00:17:51 | |
| But what you have with this is the CEO lacks any political acumen or political directive because they're not elected. It's the | 00:17:59 | |
| council that's elected. And you can't have managers that are strangers to the city or looking after their own career instead of | 00:18:07 | |
| the interests of the the city as a whole. And so from 1920 to 1960, you begin seeing mayors come back into the equation and you | 00:18:14 | |
| have a mayor council form of government with the chief administrator officer. You'll see this begins looking more more like what | 00:18:22 | |
| you see in Utah City. | 00:18:30 | |
| As you get to this point in time after World War Two, you have huge economic booms or growth, you have the baby boom and you | 00:18:38 | |
| suddenly need massive development of transportation to support that growth and all of those individuals. And so in San Francisco | 00:18:44 | |
| in 1931, you see them introduce a form of government that's a mayor council form of government, and they hire a chief | 00:18:50 | |
| administrative officer. | 00:18:57 | |
| The mayor and the council set the agenda. The mayor is the political leader and the executive in the city. The chief | 00:19:04 | |
| administrative officer carries out the administrative functions of the city. | 00:19:08 | |
| From. | 00:19:15 | |
| And so from 1960 to 1980, you begin seeing a lot of different variations in how this occurs. You also begin having a national | 00:19:16 | |
| civic league that begins establishing model city charters that cities can pick up and borrow from to figure out how to go about | 00:19:23 | |
| doing their things. And you can see on the bottom right that the percentage of cities that go to a mayor council with the Cao | 00:19:31 | |
| increase dramatically. | 00:19:38 | |
| So we now find ourselves in an era of hybridization, and you see a lot of different varieties of city governments throughout the | 00:19:46 | |
| country. When you hear people talk about strong mayor, weak mayor, usually what they're talking about is executive authority with | 00:19:53 | |
| the mayor that's elected directly. Being a strong mayor or a weak mayor is that the City Council would appoint the mayor, and the | 00:20:01 | |
| mayor performs largely administrative functions, not executive or council functions. | 00:20:08 | |
| So I've been here, finds itself in a bit of a hybrid place and I'll talk a little bit about the options under state government, | 00:20:17 | |
| but what you'll see is. | 00:20:22 | |
| That states charter cities, and it used to be that you get a charter, an actual charter document that would establish what the | 00:20:28 | |
| city is, what its form of government is. | 00:20:32 | |
| The way Utah does it, and the way most states now do it, is that they will charter by legislation. | 00:20:38 | |
| And so we have legislation that sets out the options for municipal governments in Utah. There are three choices. I'll get into | 00:20:44 | |
| them in a few minutes. But the form of government that Vineyard currently has is one of those three choices and it's called the | 00:20:50 | |
| five member council form of government. | 00:20:56 | |
| The mayor is elected directly she chairs the council. She votes as a voting member of the council on all matters before the | 00:21:02 | |
| council. | 00:21:06 | |
| She is the CEO to whom all employees report. She appoints the officers, the city manager and the department heads. | 00:21:12 | |
| This is done with advice and consent of the council. So it's not the appointment right is the mayor's. The council has a role in | 00:21:20 | |
| voting up or down the mayor's appointments or removals. | 00:21:27 | |
| And the Council has both legislative, administrative and. | 00:21:34 | |
| Functions in both of those areas, they pass ordinances, they can remove or delegate powers from the mayor. There are certain | 00:21:43 | |
| categories of things that cannot be removed from the mayor, but other than those, other than that small group of things that are | 00:21:49 | |
| listed, which are legislative or judicial powers. | 00:21:54 | |
| Ceremonial functions, chair of the council or any ex officio positions. Ex officio means positions that come by virtue of her | 00:22:01 | |
| position as mayor. So an example on that is the Mountain Land Association of Governments has a board that's comprised entirely of | 00:22:08 | |
| mayors from the cities that are within its service area. And so that type of thing would be an ex officio position. Whoever's in | 00:22:16 | |
| the mayor's seat would always be vineyards representative on that board. | 00:22:23 | |
| The council appropriates funds that sets the budget, the council supervises the performance of the executive and the | 00:22:32 | |
| administrative duties, and the council appoints and removes the city manager and manages the city manager's performance. | 00:22:39 | |
| So looking ahead. | 00:22:48 | |
| If Vineyard, for whatever reason, we're not happy with the five member council form of government, it has two other options it can | 00:22:50 | |
| choose from. | 00:22:55 | |
| Here are the three options that you have. We currently are the five member council. You could also choose the mayor council form | 00:23:01 | |
| of government. This looks a lot like the federal government you have. | 00:23:07 | |
| A City Council that only legislates. | 00:23:13 | |
| And you have a mayor that is both the executive and the administrative officer. | 00:23:16 | |
| A president of the city, so to speak. | 00:23:22 | |
| And there is a distinct separation between the functions of the City Council and the functions of the mayor. They don't overlap, | 00:23:24 | |
| and there are some things in state law that prohibit the council from interfering with the mayor's business and vice versa. | 00:23:33 | |
| The six member council looks almost exactly like the five member council with one key distinction, and that's that the mayor | 00:23:43 | |
| chairs the council but doesn't vote on most issues. | 00:23:49 | |
| The mayor will vote to break a tie, the mayor will vote on the appointment of the city manager, and the mayor will vote on any | 00:23:56 | |
| ordinance change that affects the powers and duties of the mayor or the city manager. And other than those items, the. | 00:24:05 | |
| Mayor would not be a voting member of the council. They would run the meeting, have a voice, help set the agenda, but largely | 00:24:14 | |
| function as the chief executive officer. But the split of duties and the interaction between the mayor and the council is. | 00:24:21 | |
| Really, in all significant respects, the same for A5 and six member council form of government. They look really similar. They | 00:24:30 | |
| appear similar in most meetings. You really can't tell the difference until it comes time to vote and you realize, oh, the mayor | 00:24:36 | |
| didn't cast a vote, they just called for it. | 00:24:42 | |
| So a few slides based on the advantages and disadvantages of the three Utah forms of government and. | 00:24:50 | |
| On the Mayor Council you have a clear separation of powers, you have clear checks and balances, you have elected representation. | 00:24:58 | |
| Just as you doing off, you have elected representation in all of the Utah forms there. There really isn't a form available under | 00:25:06 | |
| Utah law that doesn't have some checks and balances in place and that doesn't have you as citizens represented by an elected | 00:25:12 | |
| council and an elected mayor. | 00:25:18 | |
| On the mayor Council, I tend to think of it as a recipe for constant conflict you will see in mayor Council because there's bright | 00:25:26 | |
| line separation between legislative and executive and administrative roles. | 00:25:33 | |
| That. | 00:25:41 | |
| Cities tend to get things done with quite a bit of conflict and quite a bit of tension. The mayor may or may not be a professional | 00:25:42 | |
| administrator, and so you will get some mayors that are better at that job than others. | 00:25:48 | |
| There is no separation between the political and administrative leadership. And so you get a mayor who's administering city | 00:25:55 | |
| services often with a political bent to the way they go about doing that. And then one big disadvantage is you do have to | 00:26:02 | |
| duplicate some of your staff. So in council mayor forms of government, there is an executive budget and there is a legislative | 00:26:10 | |
| budget. And so both group, the mayor and the council will often have. | 00:26:17 | |
| Legislative officer, they both often will have a clerk or an administrative function. They both often will have their legal | 00:26:25 | |
| counsel and you may also see an administrator on both sides of that Ledger. And so if you pull apart the budget for council, | 00:26:32 | |
| mayor, forms of government, they're spending a higher ratio of their tax revenues on. | 00:26:40 | |
| Administrative and personnel expenses than the other two forms. | 00:26:48 | |
| A6 member council form of government has it this some of the same advantages you have political responsiveness and representation. | 00:26:54 | |
| You elect your mayor, you elect your council members. | 00:26:59 | |
| It does allow for your administrative functions to be depoliticized. So you have a city manager typically that will carry out the | 00:27:06 | |
| administrative functions of the city. And so if you have questions about water, sewer, roads, waste, core city services, you can | 00:27:14 | |
| often go to the administrator. You don't have to go and get a political solution to those kinds of issues. | 00:27:22 | |
| It tends, and this is in my experience and observation toward cooperation over conflict. | 00:27:31 | |
| The way this form of government gets things done is by coming together, not by being opposed. | 00:27:37 | |
| And the tenure of the city administrator is determined by merit and responsiveness. So if the if the administrative functions are | 00:27:43 | |
| not carried out to the liking of the City Council, they can find another person to handle that function. Some disadvantages. As | 00:27:50 | |
| with other forms of government, you may not elect professionals and they may be poorly suited for the jobs in front of them. They | 00:27:56 | |
| may also be very qualified and very well suited. | 00:28:03 | |
| There is inherent tension in how to allocate the administrative authority among the council, the mayor and the city manager | 00:28:12 | |
| because all three, under this form of government, may have some of that administrative authority. | 00:28:19 | |
| There's also an advantage with that because you can tailor it to fit your city. | 00:28:26 | |
| And you're not tied to a. | 00:28:31 | |
| Certain delineation of how it occurs, and then the other disadvantage is if the council and the mayor retain. | 00:28:33 | |
| A lot of the administrative functions, then it can be politicized in the same way it is in the council mayor form. | 00:28:41 | |
| 5 member council again is almost identical to the six member council. The one difference is the mayor votes. | 00:28:48 | |
| And the one disadvantage that is a little bit different on this list is the one on the very bottom right, which is the Open and | 00:28:55 | |
| Public Meetings Act presents some challenges for how the mayor works with the members of the council. Because the mayor and the | 00:29:03 | |
| five member council form of government is a voting member of the council. Anytime they're with two other members of the council, | 00:29:10 | |
| you have a quorum. And if you have a quorum, you can't meet except in a public meeting. And so those. | 00:29:17 | |
| Small meetings that need to occur to coordinate. | 00:29:25 | |
| To work on complicated issues, a big project for example. | 00:29:28 | |
| Is it on schedule or we have this particular aspect of it? We want to prepare information to bring forward in a public meeting. | 00:29:34 | |
| The mayor can only do that work one at a time with members of the council. We're under A6 member council where the mayor doesn't | 00:29:40 | |
| vote on those items. The mayor doesn't count when you're calculating a quorum and so there can be some, there can be more of that | 00:29:46 | |
| informal liaising with. | 00:29:51 | |
| Council members on how they do their functions. | 00:29:58 | |
| One thing I forgot to mention on the mayor council form of government, when you vote on that, you can do A5 member council or A7 | 00:30:01 | |
| member council and so you'll vote. You would vote both on the form of the government and how many members you would want to have | 00:30:08 | |
| on the council. The six and five, you have 5 voting members of your council on both of those. So how do you how does it happen if | 00:30:15 | |
| you want to change? | 00:30:22 | |
| The form of government. There's two ways it can begin. | 00:30:30 | |
| The City Council can adopt A resolution or the voters can file a petition. | 00:30:33 | |
| It has to occur at least 75 days before the general or the municipal election and so on. The two blue arrows. I've split that out | 00:30:38 | |
| into 45 and 30. | 00:30:44 | |
| And I did get to that. 75 S the council adopts a resolution or voters filed for a petition and gather signatures. | 00:30:50 | |
| The council has 45 days to hold at least two public hearings on the topic from from when the petition or the resolution occur. And | 00:30:58 | |
| then after those hearings, you would hold your election, your elections at the normal November date and the election would be | 00:31:05 | |
| about do you want to change to the form of government? You have to identify on the ballot what form of government you're aiming | 00:31:12 | |
| for. | 00:31:20 | |
| You can't say do you want. | 00:31:27 | |
| AB or C you have to identify one. | 00:31:30 | |
| And then they would vote up, the voters would vote up or down on that. And then you would transition to what happens after it's | 00:31:34 | |
| voted in. Assuming it passes, it doesn't take effect for another year. So you with the timing of where we're at right now, if the | 00:31:42 | |
| council were to adopt A resolution, it would go on the November 2024 ballot. The the voters in the city would vote yes, we want it | 00:31:50 | |
| or no, we don't want it, whatever form it is that's put forward. | 00:31:58 | |
| And then if they vote yes, we want a change in government, you would then vote for the officers. | 00:32:06 | |
| At the next election, which is the municipal election in fall of 2025, those new officers would be sworn in in January of 2026. So | 00:32:14 | |
| none of this would take effect immediately. And I guess the reason I share that and why it's important is if you look at how your | 00:32:21 | |
| council is currently composed, you have two members of the council that were just recently elected the four year terms. Neither of | 00:32:29 | |
| them would be. | 00:32:36 | |
| Affected by this change, but your other 3 voting members right now, the mayor and then the two other seats. | 00:32:44 | |
| Would both be up for re-election anyway in the November 2025 election? That's I guess, a point of caution of if the only reason | 00:32:53 | |
| you're contemplating the change in government is to try to accelerate your opportunity to vote on members of the council, it | 00:33:00 | |
| doesn't do anything for you in that regard. | 00:33:07 | |
| The state law is written in a way where if you change form of government, council members have a choice to remain council members | 00:33:14 | |
| under the new government. And so anybody currently in their seat would continue in that role. And your election of officers for | 00:33:21 | |
| the new government would occur at exactly the same time as when it would occur for you already. So you wouldn't have any changes | 00:33:27 | |
| in that way. | 00:33:33 | |
| What does it mean for Vineyard? So the the mayor and the council and the two council members that would be up for re-election | 00:33:41 | |
| would see out their current terms. Those that are not up for re-election would still see out their current terms. | 00:33:48 | |
| The new mayor and council members not elected until the next municipal general election, as I mentioned, and the earliest it can | 00:33:57 | |
| change is January 1, 2026. | 00:34:01 | |
| So what are what are my takeaways? David Church, who was my predecessor in this role and who advised the Utah League of Cities and | 00:34:06 | |
| Towns for the longest time, when he would present on this topic, he would always lead with why do governments exist in Utah? Why | 00:34:12 | |
| do city governments exist? And he always gave three reasons. And they're they're a little humorous in the way that he phrased it, | 00:34:19 | |
| but he would say city governments exist first and foremost to provide services. We need water, we need clean water. We need | 00:34:25 | |
| sewers, we need roads. | 00:34:31 | |
| We provide services at our core. | 00:34:39 | |
| The other thing that we do is we build communities. We try to bring people together. We want the places we live to be meaningful. | 00:34:42 | |
| We want them to be the kinds of places we want to raise our children and enjoy. We hold events and fairs and festivals. We do | 00:34:48 | |
| things to make sure it's clean and cared for. | 00:34:53 | |
| And then the third and he would say the least important reason to have a city is so you can tell people what to do, right. We | 00:35:00 | |
| wanted to find our land use and tell people what they can and can't build and what things should look like. We want to enact laws | 00:35:06 | |
| about how people behave in public spaces and how they whether they clean up after themselves and, and take care of their property. | 00:35:12 | |
| And so. | 00:35:18 | |
| Those are the three things in Utah primarily that cities are enabled and empowered to do listed in order of importance. So with | 00:35:26 | |
| all of that in mind that we've we've gone through. | 00:35:33 | |
| This summary is you really have a set menu and there's only three choices. It's important to recognize the historical aspect of | 00:35:41 | |
| how we got there, but we're we're ordering from a set menu and the only significant difference between the five and six member | 00:35:48 | |
| council is whether the mayor votes. | 00:35:56 | |
| When you think about do you want one of those two or a council mayor form, this is my advice only. | 00:36:04 | |
| Council mayor invites conflict, the five and six member council forms of government invites cooperation, and I think that pretty | 00:36:13 | |
| fairly plays out throughout the state when you look at those different forms. | 00:36:19 | |
| The processes for the key decisions that the council makes are set by statute. They don't change based on your form of government. | 00:36:27 | |
| So when you think about taxing spending, which is budget and land use. | 00:36:36 | |
| All of those have set procedures that every city in the state has to follow, and those procedures are the same. | 00:36:43 | |
| Whether you're A5 or A6 member, council form of government or whether you're a council mayor form of government, they don't change | 00:36:51 | |
| at all. And your voice and your rights and who makes the decision on those things is the same regardless of the form of | 00:36:58 | |
| government. And then on the right hand side, the thing I would highlight is that many of the things that we often associate with | 00:37:06 | |
| the changing government really aren't. The current council has the authority to make changes now. | 00:37:14 | |
| They can adopt rules and regulations for the administration, organization, operation, conduct and business of the city. They can | 00:37:22 | |
| allocate the powers and duties of elected and appointed city officers. They can create offices that they think are necessary. They | 00:37:30 | |
| can oversee the executive and administrative functions of the city. And you can tailor your ordinances right now to do the kinds | 00:37:37 | |
| of things that you want and to allocate those. | 00:37:44 | |
| Duties and and obligations how you want them. | 00:37:52 | |
| No, no, Mr. you require. | 00:38:26 | |
| I think I think the studies wise on some aspects of it, especially if you were to move to. | 00:38:28 | |
| A council mayor, but. | 00:38:34 | |
| There's. | 00:38:37 | |
| One of the things I maybe don't like about how the state law is structured is it's a little bit of ready shoot aim in in how it's | 00:38:39 | |
| structured because you vote on the change in the form of government. And then after that change occurs, the council begins working | 00:38:46 | |
| to reform its current ordinances to match what it wants it to be. And if you go back to this slide, lots of the decisions you're | 00:38:53 | |
| going to make. | 00:39:01 | |
| When you change the form of government are all in that right hand column and you can already do those things. So it doesn't really | 00:39:09 | |
| change a lot of that unless you go to the council mayor forum and then you are drawing bright lines. But a lot of those are | 00:39:16 | |
| already drawn for you by statute. So if you're only thinking about a change between the five and six member council, I think what | 00:39:24 | |
| you're really voting on is do you want the mayor to have a vote on the council or not. | 00:39:31 | |
| Everything else is really the same and the Council authority is the same. | 00:39:39 | |
| Did you get a chance to figure out cost of if we did put it on a ballot, what kind of is it just mostly cost from the recorder, | 00:39:46 | |
| but it's, it's essentially the same cost that you would for any item that you put on the ballot. And it's, it tends to be a | 00:39:53 | |
| minimum of 15 to 20,000. Do I have that ballpark right? | 00:40:01 | |
| Is that? | 00:40:13 | |
| Is that consistent like? | 00:40:14 | |
| For example, I don't. | 00:40:18 | |
| We don't, we have an election this fall. So what I'm just curious what's the cost and adding one item, one line item to it because | 00:40:20 | |
| they have to do a separate one for Vineyard, that's what they'll just charge us the standard rate per registered voter. So it is | 00:40:27 | |
| determined by registered voter, not by what's on the ballot, OK. | 00:40:33 | |
| And then I did have like a really, it's a granular question. | 00:40:41 | |
| Just like a little bit of my OCD, it drives me crazy that for the next election if we did go to like per SE A6 member council, we | 00:40:48 | |
| would be electing 3 council members and a mayor in that election and then two years down the road it would only be just two | 00:40:55 | |
| council members. Could we, would one of those seats be a two year term correct balance that happened that you would have to do it | 00:41:02 | |
| that way in the statute calls for that so you would stagger one term. | 00:41:09 | |
| And we would want to identify you'd have to run for that seat. | 00:41:17 | |
| Well, maybe so one of the other wrinkles and details that we didn't get into here, but it is a choice available to you is you can | 00:41:22 | |
| have your council seats be at large like they are right now, or you can have them by district. I don't love my district because I | 00:41:29 | |
| think you end up fighting with among neighborhoods of well, you don't get your thing if I don't get mine and you're better off | 00:41:36 | |
| making decisions for the city as a whole, all of you. But. | 00:41:43 | |
| That's all to say if if you were. | 00:41:52 | |
| If you were to allocate your council seats by district, you would have to identify ahead of time which is the two year seat. | 00:41:55 | |
| If they're all at large, then what you probably could do is the third. | 00:42:01 | |
| The 3rd place individual would get the two year term and the the 1st and 2nd place would get the four year term and then the mayor | 00:42:09 | |
| of course would be a four year term. | 00:42:15 | |
| OK. | 00:42:23 | |
| Any other questions? | 00:42:26 | |
| OK. I'm not seeing any other questions. Thank you so much for all of your work on this. We really appreciate it. We'll move. Oh, | 00:42:32 | |
| Jake. | 00:42:36 | |
| You're probably just looking for the button and you found it. Can I make one other note while we're patching it? I, I sent to the | 00:42:41 | |
| council, I put together just a, you know, 2 sheet form a checklist table of what the difference authorities that are noted in | 00:42:49 | |
| statute are for the different forms of government. A little bit of an asterisk to this as you read it. | 00:42:57 | |
| Under all of under the five and six member council, the council's given the authority to reallocate most of these things how it | 00:43:05 | |
| would like. | 00:43:10 | |
| There are certain things that I touched on that you can't change, that you can't, for example, remove the mayor's ability to chair | 00:43:15 | |
| the council. But most other things you can figure out where you want the council involved, where you want the mayor involved, | 00:43:21 | |
| where you want the city manager involved. So if you don't see something on the list, but it currently exists in the city, it's | 00:43:27 | |
| legal, or it currently exists, it's just been done by ordinance. So an example on that is the mayor has staff and that's totally | 00:43:34 | |
| appropriate and totally fine. | 00:43:40 | |
| It's not called out on this list in the five member council. It is called out on the six member council. I don't know why that | 00:43:46 | |
| statute has it and the other doesn't, but it's lawful for you to approve that and to have that in a 5 member. | 00:43:53 | |
| All right, go ahead, Jake. | 00:44:02 | |
| So Jamie, you talked about the council and mayor. | 00:44:06 | |
| Having conflict and you review what that conflict is and why you do that is negative. | 00:44:10 | |
| You have a bright line between the executive and administrative function and the legislative function. | 00:44:20 | |
| And a lot of that conflict often stems from. | 00:44:26 | |
| The City Council members that want to be involved in the day-to-day affairs of the city and it is not appropriate under that | 00:44:30 | |
| system for them to be involved in those affairs at all. | 00:44:36 | |
| So if under the council mayor form of government and member of council said I want to meet with the department head and the mayor | 00:44:42 | |
| said no, then they would not be able to meet with the department head. In fact, there's specific language in the statute that says | 00:44:48 | |
| they may not give direction. | 00:44:53 | |
| Two department heads. | 00:45:00 | |
| Under the five and six member council form of government, you can allow for that kind of interaction to occur and in fact in the | 00:45:02 | |
| ordinance you all passed just two weeks ago, you established a framework for some of those interactions to occur, I think in a | 00:45:08 | |
| really healthy way. | 00:45:14 | |
| That would not be an option to you under the mayor council form of government. The mayor could say no and that would be that would | 00:45:20 | |
| be the rule on it. | 00:45:24 | |
| So you also made mention of. | 00:45:32 | |
| Largely of our disagreements currently, we as a majority can actually just vote to resolve some of the issues we have. The | 00:45:36 | |
| Council. Is that what I'm hearing from you? | 00:45:42 | |
| As a legislative, well I don't I don't know what you're referring to specifically with disagreements, but it it is accurate that | 00:45:49 | |
| how you allocate the administrative functions of the city among the council, the mayor and the city manager are entirely within | 00:45:55 | |
| the councils control right now. | 00:46:01 | |
| Right now. | 00:46:09 | |
| OK. So a lot of the Vineyard debate or or I would just say that. | 00:46:10 | |
| Umm, lively that they've had. | 00:46:18 | |
| Is the December 41 vote. So those are just positions like within the city that you you can't change what the supermajority does, | 00:46:20 | |
| let's say some of the issues we've had. | 00:46:26 | |
| Moving the communications department under the mayor or travel or just different things that did something that we currently have. | 00:46:35 | |
| We just need to have a majority vote and change the we're empowered in the smaller. All of those things are within your authority. | 00:46:42 | |
| And the change to the six just. | 00:46:54 | |
| The six member council. The mayor still assistant chair of the legislative body. | 00:47:00 | |
| Correct. | 00:47:06 | |
| So you're not divided, Executive, legislative, you're not divided. | 00:47:08 | |
| They the mayor is a member of the council, but not a voting member of the council. | 00:47:14 | |
| The on the six member council there are certain things that the mayor votes on and I'm going off memory here so I may forget | 00:47:20 | |
| something, but the key things that the mayor votes on under A6 member council is. | 00:47:27 | |
| If you had a council member absent and there was a tie vote, the mayor would break the tie. If there is a vote on appointing a | 00:47:35 | |
| city manager, the mayor votes on that decision if there is a vote on. | 00:47:43 | |
| Changing the mayor's authority. | 00:47:52 | |
| The mayor votes on that item and the same rules that apply to A5 member council on needing the mayor's vote. | 00:47:55 | |
| And a majority of the council or everybody on the council but the mayor apply to that kind of a decision in both the five and the | 00:48:04 | |
| six member council form of government. | 00:48:09 | |
| For the record, somebody spoke, not by the microphone. Do we need that name for who Jamie was responding to? | 00:48:15 | |
| OK, that's OK. I it, it was fine. I just wanted to make sure that we got her name on if we needed it so. | 00:48:25 | |
| Jake, did you have additional questions? | 00:48:36 | |
| Are we going to have a public comment period? | 00:48:40 | |
| Yes, there is a public comment period. | 00:48:43 | |
| They can ask. | 00:48:46 | |
| We'll have a public comment period, but this is a work session, so go ahead and save your comment. I mean state your comment. | 00:48:52 | |
| No, so we're not doing a public comment period. We're not doing public hearing. No, this is there's no decision on the agenda on | 00:49:00 | |
| this item. It's a work session only which typically is a discussion among the council if it if you go down the path of. | 00:49:10 | |
| Looking at a resolution, you're required to hold public hearings as part of that process, and that's when that would occur. | 00:49:20 | |
| So we can't do the resolutions didn't no. | 00:49:27 | |
| This is just a work session. | 00:49:32 | |
| Yes, yeah, we could. | 00:49:37 | |
| Do you want to? | 00:49:41 | |
| Marty, how are you feeling? Don't put me on the spot or anything, Jake. | 00:49:43 | |
| Honestly, I have. I have a lot of different feelings. | 00:49:51 | |
| I don't have interest in the council mayor forum I believe that it creates. | 00:49:59 | |
| I, I see the conflict, I see the issues with having limited access. I believe it limits both sides of things. And I worry that I, | 00:50:07 | |
| I would need, I would need some convincing because everything I've seen so far, I don't feel like that's a great form of | 00:50:14 | |
| government, especially for a city our size. It's not very common. They have, I think the only cities in Utah that have that form | 00:50:22 | |
| of government are Sandy, Salt Lake, and. | 00:50:29 | |
| Ogden. | 00:50:40 | |
| Umm I could see us moving to A6 member council. I do like the idea of creating more of a. | 00:50:41 | |
| It's, it's not a bright line, but I feel like it does separate executive and legislative with having the mayor not have | 00:50:50 | |
| necessarily a vote in the legislative duties, but more of having the mayor be in the role of taking legislative action and helping | 00:50:57 | |
| the city move forward with it. I think that that could create a more unifying position for the mayor rather than being in the | 00:51:03 | |
| weeds of the legislative votes. | 00:51:10 | |
| I'm, I'm, I'm open to A6 member council, but I don't think you'll have my vote on a council mayor for him. | 00:51:21 | |
| Would you guys like to move forward with the resolution date? I had one more comment. I also think that we could save money | 00:51:29 | |
| $18,000 and work on our legislative items. But I feel like there is some conflict there because I think a lot of the concerns that | 00:51:37 | |
| you might have, Jake, have to do with the mayor's powers and that would require a super majority, which I don't think you'll get. | 00:51:46 | |
| That was it, and oh, go ahead. | 00:51:57 | |
| I appreciate your comments. | 00:52:00 | |
| Did we want to make a motion for? | 00:52:04 | |
| I. | 00:52:08 | |
| My comment is. | 00:52:12 | |
| You know, I, I recognize that history and the growth of Vineyard. | 00:52:17 | |
| I'm having then, you know. | 00:52:23 | |
| Being one of the grandsons of one of the articles organizations of the five and and being from, you know, 100 people now to | 00:52:28 | |
| 14,000. | 00:52:32 | |
| I think it's natural for cities to outgrow their governments and support structures in place. We've had three great mayors and | 00:52:38 | |
| then one, Mayor Homer, to recognize that. I'm saying that despite conflicts, I recognize their survey. And, you know, starting | 00:52:46 | |
| from ruling Gamut is a very good man. And also, Randy Mayor Farnsworth. And one of the struggles with the current form of | 00:52:55 | |
| government we have is the alleviation of authority despite being, you know, great men and women. | 00:53:03 | |
| In the three, I think there's wisdom in the separation of powers and the unseen and recognizing the growth of our city. So I | 00:53:12 | |
| would. | 00:53:17 | |
| You know, lean towards the six member council. I know, I know. | 00:53:22 | |
| It might not seem like a significant change, but I do. I do see wisdom in having a more limited role of the mayor moving across | 00:53:29 | |
| council members. | 00:53:34 | |
| Is there a motion? | 00:53:42 | |
| For resolution in the future. | 00:53:46 | |
| I would also make a motion. | 00:53:48 | |
| To put this on for a vote to study as a city in the coming couple of weeks, we could do this two weeks from today. That would be | 00:53:53 | |
| great. So are you asking for a specific study or more of a resolution to put it into the 45 day process where we do two public | 00:53:59 | |
| hearings? | 00:54:04 | |
| I think we do a 40 day, 45 day process and see public hearings, but I I didn't know the public couldn't speak this evening. I was | 00:54:11 | |
| hoping that we could speak about it before the 45 days before starting initially, like initially starting the process. | 00:54:18 | |
| The public could speak about it during public comment. | 00:54:26 | |
| Yeah, during public comment I would love to stand up and give their advice. | 00:54:31 | |
| Are we active about that before the public comment period? | 00:54:38 | |
| Could we do a resolution at the end of the meeting? Well, you're not making a resolution today. All you're all you're doing is | 00:54:43 | |
| moving it to a future agenda. I mean, I can just put it on, but I know you guys can put it on. There's no need for a vote. You | 00:54:49 | |
| can, you can have it there. I want to make sure I understand what you're driving toward though. So the resolution needs to be | 00:54:55 | |
| prepared for a specific choice of government and I understand the choice to be a six member council form of government. I have | 00:55:01 | |
| that right. | 00:55:07 | |
| And that's what the resolution language would be. | 00:55:15 | |
| And then state code has pretty specific language about what the ballot is and then what that resolution is. So I'll just draft it | 00:55:18 | |
| to match. Thank you for that clarity. I think that's good. I'd be happy to put it on. If you guys want to wait to request | 00:55:26 | |
| something for a future agenda until after you make your remarks to us about what you've been up to, we could do it then. | 00:55:34 | |
| I just say, can I make? I'd be happy to just put it on. So either way, OK, sounds great. If you have another comment, I was just | 00:55:45 | |
| going to make a motion to ask for a resolution to be put on the agenda. Hey, we have a first. Do we have a second Kate? We have a | 00:55:51 | |
| first by Marty, second by Sarah. Any discussion? | 00:55:57 | |
| All right. All in favor. Aye, aye. | 00:56:04 | |
| Aye, OK. And Ambers excuse. All right, that brings us to our next work session which is our City Hall building and Morgan will. | 00:56:07 | |
| Lead out on that discussion. Great. Thank you, Mayor and members of the council. | 00:56:20 | |
| Give us just a minute, we'll get set up. Thank you. | 00:56:25 | |
| So I need somebody. I need to let this Sarah, right? | 00:56:32 | |
| Yes. And we do have Janet Kwan with Nelson Partners that is on the smart board. | 00:56:39 | |
| And so, Jenna, if you want to get your presentation up for the council and then I can. | 00:56:49 | |
| Yes, I'll talk a little bit louder. | 00:56:58 | |
| All right. So Jana Kwan is with Nelson Partners. That's the architectural firm that we contract with to help us with a spatial | 00:57:02 | |
| analysis. | 00:57:06 | |
| I'm going to share. We're just going to. Let's not. | 00:57:13 | |
| OK. | 00:57:19 | |
| Yeah, just give me a second. | 00:57:20 | |
| All right, Janet, I'll, I'll, I'm going to lead off and then I'll have you, I'll have you take over and then I'll just, I'll just | 00:57:31 | |
| follow your slides. So we both have the same presentation. My slides will be for the public and then Janet is facing the City | 00:57:38 | |
| Council. So last year the city approved moving forward with a special analysis. We had interest in two entities that. | 00:57:46 | |
| Wanted to Co locate with the with the city that would be Mag Mountain lands Association of government. | 00:57:54 | |
| And also Web Rd. which is a business incubator entity that helps businesses get off the ground and and provides them business | 00:58:00 | |
| services. | 00:58:05 | |
| And so some of the reasons that were discussed for looking at City Hall in downtown was to consolidate staff into one facility to | 00:58:12 | |
| provide a central location for services for the public. | 00:58:19 | |
| And also there was a donation of land from flag Bro to to the city for for the City Hall. So there's some cost savings in, in that | 00:58:27 | |
| regard. And so that kicked off kind of this initial spatial analysis. | 00:58:34 | |
| And so all this is denied as a presentation of of that spatial analysis we do have in the budget. | 00:58:42 | |
| A request for the $2,000,000 to do the deeper design and study that that would also allow the city to hone down, hone in on a | 00:58:52 | |
| final budget that that we would need to, you know, try and finance should the City Council want, want to move forward with, with | 00:59:00 | |
| the City Hall. | 00:59:07 | |
| The site is located in block 5 or north of block 5 in the promenade. So the promenade, if you remember, has five blocks and this | 00:59:16 | |
| would be. | 00:59:22 | |
| Of the downtown, this would be block 10. So block 10 is north of block 5. | 00:59:29 | |
| So show this. | 00:59:36 | |
| OK, so you can see from this graphic. | 00:59:43 | |
| So this is block five of the promenade and then this is block 10 of the downtown development blocks. | 00:59:46 | |
| Um, and so yeah, I just wanted to to touch on just a few things. | 00:59:56 | |
| Another reason that we're kind of looking at this was for the economic development opportunities that are present kind of in the | 01:00:03 | |
| area. | 01:00:06 | |
| We did look at a few other city halls, Provo City Hall and also the Mill Creek City Hall and, and this plan incorporates some of | 01:00:12 | |
| those things that that were that we found to be beneficial in talking with with those entities. | 01:00:20 | |
| We also have the benefit of being next to the promenade, having the public space right there. And so it allows for a unique | 01:00:30 | |
| opportunity to integrate design within the public space that could also help with the community space within the City Hall as | 01:00:36 | |
| well. And so without any further ado, I'll turn this over to, to Janet with Nelson Partners. And Janet, if you want to take them | 01:00:43 | |
| through the plans and then I'll, I'll match your, your slide movement. Thank you. | 01:00:50 | |
| All right. Thank you, Morgan and also Council for letting present this. And if there are any questions along the way, feel free to | 01:00:58 | |
| interrupt. | 01:01:02 | |
| Circle next to those. So I was working stated what you're looking at here is kind of just an overall site plan of where the | 01:01:06 | |
| Vineyard City Hall building would be basically in this parcel here just north of the park. The rest of this development, there's a | 01:01:13 | |
| lot of development happening all around this building as well. And so when you look on this side, this is just kind of a little | 01:01:21 | |
| bit of a close up of the site plan. | 01:01:28 | |
| What we're looking at right now, again, as Morgan mentioned, I met with the city as well as with Mag and Rev Rd. trying to find | 01:01:36 | |
| out what their needs were on the project. And what we've come up with right now is a four story building. | 01:01:44 | |
| Just basically just over 78,000 square feet, 1002 higher agencies, square feet located just north of the promenade. There would | 01:01:53 | |
| kind of be a green state out front of the City Hall because there are a lot of utilities that exist in this N plate promenade in | 01:02:01 | |
| the entire way. So there'd be some sort of green stage that would separate the City Hall from the promenade. There would also be a | 01:02:09 | |
| parking garage to the north of the City Hall that would be. | 01:02:17 | |
| For City Hall as well as. | 01:02:25 | |
| Yeah. I think there's discussions of other portions of the development sharing that parking garage. So when you're looking at kind | 01:02:27 | |
| of a breakdown of each floor, I'll be able to sort of give you an overview as well as some initial floor plans we have for each | 01:02:35 | |
| floor. But it basically, as I mentioned, ends up about 78,000 square feet. | 01:02:43 | |
| So when you're looking close, some of our design thought was to have a kind of entrance from the South that would connect to the | 01:02:53 | |
| common on so that anybody that's at the park, the pool, whatever, we have access. | 01:03:00 | |
| To the city building as well as having an entrance on the north side. That opened up more to the actual overall development of | 01:03:09 | |
| this project. | 01:03:15 | |
| So just sort of what what you're seeing here is just kind of an explorative assault showing you the thought processes behind how | 01:03:23 | |
| we designed this building and what we were putting on all the floors. So if we start from the ground level and as I mentioned, we | 01:03:31 | |
| will get more specifically into a floor plan, but this just kind of gives you a sort of color-coded picture of what's occurring. | 01:03:39 | |
| And. | 01:03:47 | |
| Janet, our our computer is loading very slow, so yeah, if you wanna just hang for a second, sorry. | 01:03:53 | |
| OK. Are you guys now? We'll I'll let you know. I'll let you know probably 10 seconds. | 01:04:02 | |
| The anticipation is building. | 01:04:10 | |
| All right, we're there. | 01:04:13 | |
| OK. So as I mentioned on this first floor, what you're seeing in this sort of pinkish purple color are elements that would be sort | 01:04:18 | |
| of part of the public use. So you've got as well as sort of yellow with circulation. So you're seeing that lobby insurance from | 01:04:26 | |
| the Commonwealth that I mentioned here as well as you got lobby access from the north, which would open up to the rest of the | 01:04:35 | |
| development. And as Morgan mentioned, one of the things that we looked at as we met with him and as they were fist other. | 01:04:44 | |
| All buildings in the area was an opportunity for kind of community. | 01:04:53 | |
| Elephant. | 01:04:59 | |
| Exhibition stage, whatever that might be, but the idea that you would have some community engagement that can happen on that first | 01:05:01 | |
| floor. | 01:05:05 | |
| And then what you're seeing kind of in this green color is the actual Vineyard City building, so on the 2nd floor, and there would | 01:05:12 | |
| be a staircase, just kind of a grand staircase that connects the 1st floor to the second. You're seeing the Vineyard City Hall | 01:05:19 | |
| offices and buildings and then the council chambers. | 01:05:27 | |
| On this North East corner and again we'll look at plans of that most specifically. | 01:05:35 | |
| What you're looking at in this blue color or any spaces that are shared throughout the building. And when we talked with Mag as | 01:05:42 | |
| well as Red Rd. and you know, even with the city, it was the idea of couldn't give you some functions that you could share such as | 01:05:50 | |
| conference rooms, larger conference room tickets, you know, open up into creating a space that allows 100 people to other things | 01:05:58 | |
| like upgrade room area. | 01:06:05 | |
| You know, fitness or things like that that could be shared throughout the building. So if we get to the plans, you'll see that. | 01:06:13 | |
| But that's what kind of this this color is. We also then have Meg right now is shown as taking the entire third floor. They needed | 01:06:21 | |
| some warehouse space, which is what you're seeing on this first floor on the West corner was warehouse suits for them and then Red | 01:06:30 | |
| Rose was we were looking at the 5th floor for that. | 01:06:38 | |
| But then creating some event space on the very top floor. And I believe this is also similar to some of the other City Hall | 01:06:46 | |
| buildings in Utah, but the idea that this is a space that could be rented out and that was on the 4th floor as well. | 01:06:54 | |
| And then you know you have restroom floors and high storage going throughout the building. | 01:07:04 | |
| So I can, I can move on to the floor plan if I, if I can add something, if I can add something to you, there is, there is future | 01:07:10 | |
| tenant space that you see denoted in the building. So you'll see in the City Hall. The idea with that was for future expansion | 01:07:18 | |
| space, we wanted this building to fit the needs of the city for the next, you know, you know, as long as we really could, but you | 01:07:25 | |
| know, for the next 20 years and that provides us the opportunity to. | 01:07:33 | |
| You know at least that out and then doing maybe short leases if there was an engineering firm or someone that needed some space | 01:07:41 | |
| and then at the end of that lease when we needed the space, we could then grow into that space. And so that that was the thought | 01:07:47 | |
| process was providing some spaces that we could grow into. | 01:07:52 | |
| You know, and I could just say also understanding that the square footage is that you're looking at here instead point based on my | 01:08:00 | |
| meetings with them and the space that they thought they needed taking into account future growth. | 01:08:06 | |
| But you know, as Morgan has mentioned, there's nothing set in stone. This is just a kind of space analysis. | 01:08:14 | |
| So are there any questions on this diagram or? | 01:08:25 | |
| Any questions? | 01:08:30 | |
| Feel free to continue. | 01:08:34 | |
| OK. Thank you. | 01:08:36 | |
| So what you're looking at here is the first floor plan and have it loaded. Yeah, you're probably gonna need to give us about 10 | 01:08:38 | |
| seconds again, maybe 20. | 01:08:43 | |
| OK. Yeah, you're good. | 01:09:15 | |
| OK, now as I mentioned again at the bottom of the page, you're seeing the Commodore. This would be that Green states that | 01:09:17 | |
| separates the City Hall building from the promenade. As you get a little closer to what is occurring here, again, this is that | 01:09:23 | |
| Bobby space. | 01:09:29 | |
| That was coming from the South to allow easy access from the and then you also have this lobby space to the north for the rest of | 01:09:35 | |
| the development. | 01:09:41 | |
| And this is that element that could be that communication, whether it's, you know. | 01:10:24 | |
| Farmers Market, Crescent, whatever that element is, just the idea that we're playing some space for some community engagement. | 01:10:31 | |
| Again, as you come into the building, this is that grant there that would take you up to the video and see all building. What | 01:10:42 | |
| you're seeing in this dash line here, this would be a two source space. So that opens up. | 01:10:48 | |
| Using the 2nd floor again, you have here #5 are these conference rooms? This is what I was talking about, that this is conference | 01:10:54 | |
| rooms that could be used for any of the tenants in the building. They could have multiple partitions so that he could open up and | 01:11:02 | |
| need one larger space if there were events that warranted that. | 01:11:10 | |
| You know what you're also not saying like years. I'm not showing any exterior windows and that type of thing. So don't think that | 01:11:19 | |
| it's a building without windows. You know, you you still would have all of that and connections to the park used to the park, but | 01:11:26 | |
| it's really just a special analysis at this point. And Janet. | 01:11:33 | |
| Oh OK, when you're done I'll I'll add a few other items. | 01:11:42 | |
| OK, sure. Other things that were kind of important to, you know, the test sitting in bag was an idea of places for bike parking. | 01:11:46 | |
| If you're writing the work, ability to be able to take a shower, you know, bring your bike. So we kind of have some bike storage | 01:11:57 | |
| down here. And then as I mentioned previously, Mag needed a large warehouse area as well as kind of trailer parking. | 01:12:06 | |
| So that's what you're seeing at .9 is the trailer parking and the parking garage. You would like to see to the north of that. And | 01:12:15 | |
| then again we have things like electrical rooms, elevators, you know makes main stairs throughout the building negotiations for we | 01:12:23 | |
| have 3 elevators shown here and then more of a grass there is connecting the 1st and 2nd floor. | 01:12:32 | |
| Right. And to clarify, MAG is Mountain Lands Association of Governments. They are our metropolitan planning organizations. So | 01:12:42 | |
| they're in charge of doing long range planning, long range land use planning. They provide economic development services and | 01:12:49 | |
| coordination on a regional basis. And then they also provide a weatherization program. So they help folks that need AAC or they | 01:12:56 | |
| need heating within their houses that fall within like a low income bracket. | 01:13:03 | |
| And they also provide the Meals on Wheels program. So if you see those trucks going going around that that's bag and they told her | 01:13:11 | |
| Utah Summit and Wasatch counties a few other items to point out too under like Mill Creek. One thing that was really nice the | 01:13:17 | |
| community loved it was that they provided. | 01:13:24 | |
| Starting to do really well. And so I it's just kind of a one of those things that if you're interested in from a, from a council | 01:14:06 | |
| standpoint, we could, we could try and incorporate into the into the building. That's great. Thanks. | 01:14:12 | |
| Jake has his hand up. Hold on one second. | 01:14:18 | |
| Am I good with me? | 01:14:31 | |
| OK. | 01:14:35 | |
| So this is 87,000 square feet like that's. | 01:14:39 | |
| And three, three people separating it all owners mag and then the other third like by the floor, are they renting it from the two | 01:14:44 | |
| of them? | 01:14:48 | |
| So we would look at Craig from Ron Eric, but we would work so that this is just providing like the spatial analysis. I believe | 01:14:54 | |
| that there's there's like a mag was very open on how we could do it. But I believe yeah, both entities are I believe we're gonna | 01:15:01 | |
| work with Lewis Young to help us understand kind of from a financing standpoint how. | 01:15:09 | |
| From a financing standpoint, how that that could come together whether it's three separate owners or if there's long term places. | 01:15:17 | |
| So I I think those details that haven't necessarily been worked out, but the idea is to is to contract with like Louisiana to help | 01:15:23 | |
| us evaluate that. | 01:15:29 | |
| My first initial comment, and I don't want to attack everything, that the size of this City Council building is similar to the | 01:15:39 | |
| Saratoga Springs one. | 01:15:44 | |
| Which has the current price tag of 55, zero million dollars. | 01:15:50 | |
| Of a special size to build today. | 01:15:55 | |
| You know, so that's kind of like. | 01:16:02 | |
| I I I get maybe there's an acre of land to donate. I can imagine an acre in this property being a couple 100,000 or 3.43400 | 01:16:07 | |
| thousand, but 50 million? | 01:16:13 | |
| So basically the 2,000,000 is only just for the planning. | 01:16:20 | |
| Of the building. | 01:16:26 | |
| Yeah, that, that would get us to the construction, construction documents. | 01:16:29 | |
| So I I did some. | 01:16:35 | |
| Commercial analysis on my own and just pulled off that space around here and I asked for. | 01:16:38 | |
| You know how many I know we have 1512 fifteen staff and our current building over there by Maverick and just a quarter mile | 01:16:46 | |
| outside of Vineyard, I was able to find three places for under 350, three, $160,000 total. | 01:16:54 | |
| Like I was like $360,000 to 50 million. Like I mean, it's like we're right now in the lowest. | 01:17:05 | |
| Commercial real estate since the 1970s, yet we're at the highest in all in in commercial building. | 01:17:16 | |
| So that's my only question is. | 01:17:26 | |
| So. | 01:17:33 | |
| I just wanted to point out a couple things to respond. Jake, the building size is 78,000 square feet and. | 01:17:36 | |
| No, that's fine. And still I'm looking at the screen and that's the same. It's roughly the same size. Yeah. One big distinction in | 01:17:47 | |
| the planning on this is that the City Hall is not intended to house public safety when we looked at Provo City. | 01:17:56 | |
| The public safety element of that building brought the cost per square foot up substantially and so the total cost of the building | 01:18:05 | |
| is somewhere more in the ballpark of the 20 to $30 million range and with three partners that brings it into a a much more | 01:18:11 | |
| reasonable cost for the city. | 01:18:17 | |
| To provide something within its city in the downtown core that provides amenities for the general public. | 01:18:23 | |
| Yeah, I would add to, I mean that's, so this is conceptual, this is just to kind of start the process. That's where Lewis Young | 01:18:33 | |
| would would help us with that analysis to see, you know if how we can get this down as as as reasonable as possible. | 01:18:40 | |
| I mean, I think this is a great idea for 20/30/20 Forty 2015. You know, when you look at a similar city like Provost, not like us, | 01:18:49 | |
| right? Provost 100,000 or 14,000. This would be us putting the facts of a City Hall decides in Saratoga Springs, but they have a | 01:18:57 | |
| population of 60,000, so they're spreading that out across 60,000 residents. We would be building the equivalent size and putting | 01:19:06 | |
| the tax burden on only 1415 thousand residents. | 01:19:14 | |
| And, and we're building it, you know, years early. Like decades earlier than what? | 01:19:23 | |
| You know, so I understand that this is like a dream of like, hey, you know, downtown when vineyards built out give me a few tough | 01:19:30 | |
| cities successful in getting a population of their morning. I mean, yeah, you probably would need something like that. But with us | 01:19:38 | |
| that like, I don't know, 30% of the city is like we're building something that is 100% build up ready, right. So is is Saratoga | 01:19:45 | |
| Springs or is it just that there are city offices because. | 01:19:53 | |
| This is not just the city offices. These are three entities. | 01:20:00 | |
| That that, that that would make it. | 01:20:04 | |
| Where they're actually going to have the county police have a portion of their property. | 01:20:06 | |
| I think you're being on the other side of the lathe that that price point would be any different, I think. | 01:20:14 | |
| Sorry, cutting off, I think it would be fine to go and look and see their numbers. I mean, that would be really interesting to | 01:20:23 | |
| find those comparables. I think you could also speak to what the staff is experiencing right now with the division and multiple | 01:20:27 | |
| different buildings and. | 01:20:32 | |
| And the disconnect and how your teams are growing and what that looks like for Jake. | 01:20:37 | |
| 100% I mean, I understand being in different buildings, but almost every city has done that. I mean, you know, when you talk to | 01:20:45 | |
| Maple thing and whatnot, they, they write it up modular trailers. They they've done Saratoga Springs, they've done used dental | 01:20:52 | |
| offices for makeshift for 5-10 years. So like we need to get into a better situation right now. This is the best time in the | 01:21:00 | |
| market. Like I, I went two or four or five different locations and it was like. | 01:21:08 | |
| A square footage right now is the best deal in the world. | 01:21:16 | |
| So we need to get better space and yeah, let's do it for a little while and it would be very smart for the city to buy the space. | 01:21:20 | |
| Because it is the bottom of the people at the bottom of If you read KSL 3 months ago, this is the this is the best times to buy | 01:21:29 | |
| and the worst time to build commercial real estate since 1970. Jake, when you were when I when I toured it, I was like wow, we can | 01:21:37 | |
| pay cash for some of these buildings for 300K400K. | 01:21:44 | |
| What a savings to taxpayers. So hey, Jake, when you were touring or when you were looking at those buildings, were they within | 01:21:53 | |
| Vineyard? | 01:21:57 | |
| NT University Parkway right at the end of quarter mile outside, there's one right next to a freeway off ramp in an arm on Center | 01:22:02 | |
| St. They're they're just barely outside. And taxpayers look at that and go, wow, put a massive cost saving while we're waiting the | 01:22:09 | |
| three to five years to save up money for a, you know, 50 million, $50 million project, right. I think as we're writing down some | 01:22:16 | |
| of the thoughts that save sharing. | 01:22:23 | |
| It would be good as they move forward in these discussions to maybe look at those things and get actual numbers and and what that | 01:22:30 | |
| looks like and provide options as we look forward to this further discussion with the City Council. Yeah, that's one of my | 01:22:37 | |
| questions. I would like to know more accurate numbers. Like Jake, you keep saying 50, but then staff just said 20 to 30. Am I | 01:22:44 | |
| correct? And then. | 01:22:50 | |
| And then we would be splitting that cost with two other entities. So I would like to know a little bit more accurate numbers | 01:22:59 | |
| before we start jumping to outside of the city options. And then the other thing. | 01:23:04 | |
| Yeah, I think that's great. And we can have staff grab those numbers too, additional with the accurate numbers you're asking for, | 01:23:13 | |
| Marty. Yeah. And then the other question I had is moving forward with something like that. I guess it would be interesting to hear | 01:23:19 | |
| from Lewis and Young how we would pay for it if that was something that we would have to go to bond or if we're talking tax | 01:23:26 | |
| increases or if we're just talking that this would be something that our RDA would afford. | 01:23:32 | |
| And then my other just comment is I think there is there's two sides to this. And I definitely want to be fiscally responsible and | 01:23:39 | |
| I want to be wise with our money. But I also know that there is value and good planning. And so if this means we have this good | 01:23:47 | |
| plan of getting a centralized location with Freeland and partnerships in a viable way that doesn't put a huge tax burden on our | 01:23:54 | |
| residents, I just need a lot more information so. | 01:24:02 | |
| Jake, I think you bring up great questions and I think I agree with the mayor. It's worth looking into for sure. | 01:24:11 | |
| I just want to say hold on Jake. Hold on Jake one minute, Jake, hold on one second. Sarah is going to go and then I'll throw it to | 01:24:18 | |
| you. I just want to say I appreciate you guys. You're considering including the community areas in this building. I think it's | 01:24:24 | |
| really awesome. We talked about that a little bit and to have conference rooms that that are usable for the citizens. So I just | 01:24:31 | |
| wanted to acknowledge your. | 01:24:38 | |
| You're making an effort to do that. I think that's really cool It the price tag is overwhelming, right? And it feels premature. | 01:24:45 | |
| And I feel like if what I also looked at one of those buildings that were for rent. So it's to buy I guess for less than 300,000. | 01:24:52 | |
| So really it's it's making sure that the timeline makes sense and that we are being careful with the money that we have. So it | 01:24:59 | |
| doesn't feel. | 01:25:07 | |
| To the citizens like. | 01:25:15 | |
| Opulence. | 01:25:17 | |
| Does that make sense? So. | 01:25:19 | |
| Yeah, and really this process is to is to answer these types of questions and see if the City Council wants to move forward so | 01:25:21 | |
| that. And so yeah, I think we need to dig in and yeah, I think the direction that we're sorry Jake, go to you and then I'll. | 01:25:30 | |
| After you. | 01:25:39 | |
| I mean, my eyes were open when I found this, when I saw this on the agenda. And I spent a lot of time with quite a few different | 01:25:42 | |
| commercial real estate agents right now. And what has been eye opening to me is that everyone has gone from working in an office | 01:25:48 | |
| to working from home. | 01:25:55 | |
| And they are very, they are saying that the amount of commercial real estate is available on the market might take, you know, 10 | 01:26:02 | |
| to 15 years to eat up just a open space. And so, and then my, the other thing I toured with Warren is Orem cities population | 01:26:10 | |
| around 9:00. What is it 9598 thousand? I think we'll get the exact numbers on that. But they're building is only 44,000 square | 01:26:18 | |
| feet. So it's like, I understand they're not renting it out. I do like the idea that you guys are. | 01:26:26 | |
| Going to Mount Land Association of Governments and you know, Saratoga Springs is is doing the same thing with the county and | 01:26:34 | |
| bringing those services over over there. So I can see that. My only concern is like the third tenant and I don't know the company. | 01:26:42 | |
| If it's just a tenant situation, we. | 01:26:52 | |
| Looking at how many people have moved off their spaces and from really good leases and which actually makes me wish we could | 01:26:59 | |
| renegotiate our current lease by Maverick because of the dropout in the market. But I did look at the contract. | 01:27:07 | |
| For another year or so. But yeah, I think there needs to be. I wouldn't mind studying or putting a citizen Commission together on | 01:27:16 | |
| finances and like even even their council and doing some tours and understanding like cities. | 01:27:25 | |
| Because one thing I did come out of this today, I do think we need to plan. I like what Marty said and like this, this does look | 01:27:35 | |
| like something that you know, you need to save the plan some meeting with Utah City and say, hey, you know what? We if this isn't | 01:27:43 | |
| our long range plan, great. You know, we need to talk about that, right? | 01:27:50 | |
| All right. Do you have more comments? I have this thing. One thing that I also wanted to mention was just to keep in mind | 01:28:00 | |
| oftentimes, and I heard this from Lewis and Young, sometimes building something earlier might cost half or I hate throwing out | 01:28:09 | |
| numbers that can't be back, but there could be a definite savings and building something sooner. | 01:28:19 | |
| But like I get, I like your mentality and the sentiment that you're sharing. | 01:28:28 | |
| All right. Any additional comments on this? | 01:28:36 | |
| If not, I feel like you guys have pretty good guidance. Is there anything you need clarity on? | 01:28:41 | |
| Sorry, I appreciate that. | 01:28:47 | |
| Yeah, I think that I really appreciate this. Obviously the sticker shock and and everything goes to the engines. | 01:28:53 | |
| Bring this back again for discussion. | 01:29:04 | |
| I think what my plan is, is I'm going to let the staff go and collect that information and then as they build that time, I'm | 01:29:07 | |
| hoping to keep it within the budget timeline. So I'm going to bring it back as early and often within this budget framework. | 01:29:15 | |
| So I mean like July 1st? No, that would be outside the budget framework. So that would be after the approval of the final budget. | 01:29:25 | |
| I'm thinking the next meeting or the meeting after that. So it's still within the budget framework. | 01:29:32 | |
| We would know that the bonding or the financial mechanism. | 01:29:41 | |
| Of what we would be paying for the total build up. I think that's, I don't know exactly what Lewis and Young will provide or what | 01:29:47 | |
| answers we'll come back with. But I think that the direction that we've given them, hopefully they'll be able to glean those | 01:29:53 | |
| answers and come back. And if it's something that we feel like we have enough answers on that we can vote on anything that would | 01:29:59 | |
| be in our budget. We can. And if not we'll move it to the next year and we can do any amendments that would be necessary or. | 01:30:05 | |
| Kind of proceed in that way. | 01:30:13 | |
| OK, the only request that I would have is when they report back in Saratoga Springs, Orem and promo have all talked about budget | 01:30:16 | |
| creep and about their what they estimated of what it would cost was dramatically higher than what it ultimately did. And So what I | 01:30:25 | |
| would like is a is a complete, I don't want to know just the $2,000,000 for planning because I mean that's just a design this | 01:30:33 | |
| right? It's like OK from beginning then landscaping everything all in and budget creep. | 01:30:41 | |
| And I would like them to study out what that Budget Creek was, was from at least three different cities to say from when you voted | 01:30:51 | |
| to win to where you're at, what is the total percentage that you probably get a breakdown of the three. So we can add that | 01:30:59 | |
| percentage on suite so the citizens know before we vote. We're voting on the total X amount, dollar amount. | 01:31:07 | |
| OK. Thank you. That's helpful. Do you guys feel like we can accomplish that? I know you're working closely with the cities that | 01:31:17 | |
| just built so. | 01:31:20 | |
| Yeah, Yeah. We'd be having to reach out and we haven't worked with with Mill Creek as well. Oh yeah. They, they, they'd be a | 01:31:24 | |
| really good comparative. Yeah, comparable. OK, great. All right. With that, we'll go ahead and move on to our next part of our | 01:31:30 | |
| agenda. | 01:31:35 | |
| Let's see. | 01:31:43 | |
| Who is all desiring to make a comment? | 01:31:46 | |
| Can you raise your hands a little bit higher just so I can count? | 01:31:50 | |
| All right, um. | 01:31:54 | |
| Come on up, state your name and what you would like to talk to us about. | 01:31:57 | |
| Where are you from? Other things? | 01:32:03 | |
| Daria Evans. | 01:32:11 | |
| Thank you for this opportunity. Can I ask a couple questions about the City Hall? OK. | 01:32:13 | |
| I'd like to know if they know what the market value of the land being donated is worth. | 01:32:20 | |
| I'd also like to know what would happen to the current mag building on Geneva Rd. What would that what would happen to that | 01:32:27 | |
| building and could Vineyard utilize it for maybe as a public works building house people there since already the public works | 01:32:35 | |
| building up here in Vineyard is already at capacity and we need to expand it which is too bad. | 01:32:42 | |
| And also. | 01:32:51 | |
| I would like to know is the designer of the construction documents? Is that going out for a bid? | 01:32:54 | |
| And. | 01:33:04 | |
| When would that come in? | 01:33:07 | |
| And also I would just like to thank Nasim Gandor for getting our 25 mile an hour speed limit signs in our community. | 01:33:09 | |
| And I think that's it. Thank you very much. | 01:33:20 | |
| Can I add to the Naseem thing? I heard that one of them was placed in a terrible location and the city responded very quickly to | 01:33:24 | |
| changing that. | 01:33:28 | |
| Oh, come back to the microphone. | 01:33:34 | |
| We had a neighbor. | 01:33:36 | |
| Was not happy because the big red sign was right in her field of view of the mountains and the same and his crew switched, | 01:33:39 | |
| switched around, got a bigger pole and put it so it wasn't in her view. Thank you very much. That was really nice. Thank you. | 01:33:48 | |
| Kim Cornelius Resident I would just say our village residents take the mountains very seriously. So I have a a lady wanted me to | 01:34:03 | |
| move a tree 3 feet so she can see my nose better. | 01:34:08 | |
| How about when you respond to or are you asking? | 01:34:46 | |
| I know we've got the two weeks to come back with it on the agenda. So I was hoping maybe there could be some suggest for some | 01:34:51 | |
| discussion to make sure we get the right. Jamie, did you want to offer clarity there, just that what you refer to is? | 01:34:57 | |
| In the statute called the six member council form of government, is that what they call? Yeah, You have 5 working members hearing | 01:35:04 | |
| the same thing as what we were reading. The mayor is the chair of the council. The mayor votes on certain items but not | 01:35:09 | |
| everything. OK, so would be still 5 council members perhaps. OK, thank you. | 01:35:14 | |
| Sorry about that. I'm Darlene Price. I'm from the Villas. Just a couple of things that as I was watching the presentations, which | 01:35:32 | |
| by the way were very excellent and informative. I, I appreciate that, especially the history that we went through. I know that | 01:35:38 | |
| that was a lot of work. | 01:35:45 | |
| One piece. | 01:35:51 | |
| Our current government that we have right here, which one is that? | 01:35:54 | |
| 5 member council, the five member council. OK. And originally, as I was doing my research, I originally found out that for | 01:36:00 | |
| example, that's that kind of government was for small towns a certain amount and most of those people knew each other. So for | 01:36:08 | |
| example, my family in Leamington, UT, their form of government was this kind because they all were neighbors and were related some | 01:36:15 | |
| way or another, the Christiansons and the deaths and suddenly other people in that small town. | 01:36:23 | |
| And they trusted each other. And so that form of government worked very well for them. And that's the kind that we have here, but | 01:36:31 | |
| we don't have. | 01:36:35 | |
| Family members that trust each other. And so I'm I am concerned about that. I'm concerned by the fact that. | 01:36:42 | |
| One of the things that kept coming back was the conflict that this particular type of government had. I don't see that we have a | 01:36:52 | |
| type of government that is without conflict what we currently have. And, and so how it can't be worse than what we've got. That's | 01:36:59 | |
| what I keep thinking is it just cannot be worse than what we've got and you have to admit. | 01:37:07 | |
| That there are nights when I come here on Wednesday that I'm not sure what we're going to see. You know, we've got people that are | 01:37:15 | |
| very, very passionate about where they are. And so I, I find a change of government is what we need for, for Vineyard, mostly | 01:37:22 | |
| because we're not a small town anymore. The other thing we were talking about was the City Hall. I am overwhelmed at the point of | 01:37:30 | |
| paying $50 million for a building that we will use in the future. | 01:37:38 | |
| With promises that we will rent this out and we'll rent this out and we don't know that that's what's going to happen. | 01:37:46 | |
| If in four years, three years, two years, the economy goes into the sink, where will we be stuck with building a $50 billion | 01:37:54 | |
| building? And I want to tell you, I'm a retired person, recently widowed, and I don't have the ability to go out and earn more | 01:38:02 | |
| money to pay my taxes. And so I, I would say knock down that wall right there. If you want bigger spaces, move this place back. | 01:38:10 | |
| And that won't cost you $50 million. I don't even think it'll cost you 300. | 01:38:18 | |
| To just knock that out. If you want temporary space, more space. | 01:38:27 | |
| Karen Cornelius, Villa resident. | 01:38:39 | |
| I first of all I just want to say my head is spinning. | 01:38:43 | |
| And I know that this you said it was in the budget last year that we are spending $2,000,000 for a conceptual design. | 01:38:47 | |
| I, I, I, I'm blown away. So then when I think of that, I think that the $50 million price tag might be a little bit low because | 01:38:59 | |
| usually those designs are percentage of the total project. | 01:39:07 | |
| So it's really kind of scary to think what the total project would be. And I know that that's going to require something happening | 01:39:15 | |
| financially and Vineyard, whether it be bonds, whether it be tax increases. | 01:39:20 | |
| But at the same time, we're looking at a school district that is totally and completely uncertain and if we have to begin a new | 01:39:27 | |
| school district. | 01:39:31 | |
| In our neck of the woods where we're no longer paying for school buildings in Saratoga Springs, which I can understand why we need | 01:39:38 | |
| to do this, but we don't know what the tax implications that is going to put on the citizens of vineyards. I think we have to back | 01:39:44 | |
| up, and I think that's one of my concerns. | 01:39:50 | |
| That I've had since I've lived here is everything has to be. | 01:39:57 | |
| At a rapid pace. And we can't make all of these decisions that rapidly when we have so much uncertainty. And I'm concerned about | 01:40:03 | |
| what the school district will mean. I know that that is an expensive proposition, but I also know in my mind that the benefits of | 01:40:11 | |
| that far outweigh the benefits of a beautiful Taj Mahal in Utah City. We have to take into consideration the future of the | 01:40:18 | |
| families and the children that live in this. | 01:40:26 | |
| This town, and if that's where our money needs to go for five years, that's where our money needs to go. And other things can be | 01:40:34 | |
| put on the back burner, not done away with. But that cannot be our focus in the here and now because as my friend just said, we're | 01:40:42 | |
| on fixed incomes. So don't do that. Don't put everything on us all at once. | 01:40:49 | |
| I'm still also waiting for an answer as to what we can do about the 4:00 to 1:00 when we were told on December 13 that our new | 01:40:57 | |
| council could change that. And I'm waiting for an answer to that question as to how that can actually happen. Thank you. | 01:41:05 | |
| Hello Sherry K Miller resident. I want to tell Pam first I'm sorry about your back. I feel horrible because I've had back | 01:41:22 | |
| surgeries. Hope that doesn't happen to you anyway. Okay so I I wanted to I after two weeks ago meeting I went home that night and | 01:41:29 | |
| I just scribbled down some notes. So I'm going to start with those and then I'm going to give the good news. So I said last one | 01:41:37 | |
| after last May I says I care about what is happening here in Vineyard and I also care about how it is happening. | 01:41:44 | |
| Tonight, last council meeting last night, things got contentious with a lot of interrupting and talking over each other. It was | 01:41:52 | |
| painful to watch and I'm so sad that the reputation over the last few years of Vineyard has gone down. Breaks my heart. But I | 01:41:59 | |
| wrote a little note. Tonight's meeting was much better. I came worried that it was going to be that sick feeling again and I felt | 01:42:07 | |
| like things were better today. So I appreciate that there was no interrupting jumping on each other. | 01:42:14 | |
| Because I think effective communication skills is really important so that we have a sense of community. | 01:42:23 | |
| I also, OK, so I wanted to say that the transparency plus time equals trust. And I think that is what hasn't happened. And we have | 01:42:33 | |
| some PTSD going on that is lingering and I and I want to get over it and I am going to get over it. But I, I think that's a lot of | 01:42:40 | |
| what's happening. | 01:42:47 | |
| Anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to switch what I was going to say then. I really appreciate the civics lesson. I do think we have | 01:42:55 | |
| a strong mayor. I do think that there's been more in what happened in the past, but the council members were not. | 01:43:03 | |
| Well, as I said, they were at peace with what was happening and that wasn't good for the citizenship for me anyway, I think. I | 01:43:12 | |
| think we need more checks and balances. I really liked what she said. I heard once that conflict isn't bad, it's contention that's | 01:43:20 | |
| bad. So conflict isn't a bad thing. Usually end up I, I lived in Pennsylvania and there was a lot, I mean, in, in the world that I | 01:43:29 | |
| revolved in. And I sat in lots of meetings and we always came up with really good solutions. | 01:43:37 | |
| In our family, we wanted to do an extension for our room because we didn't have a place where we could all eat together and we | 01:44:23 | |
| thought we had a plan. We had to wait for a couple years because things just didn't work out. So anyway, I just want to have our | 01:44:30 | |
| community to be somewhat like that as a family where we're making all decisions. So if we can have. | 01:44:36 | |
| Transparency time will have trust. Thank you. | 01:44:44 | |
| Thank you. Any further comments? | 01:44:52 | |
| All right, then I'm going to close the public comments section. Oh, come on up. | 01:44:54 | |
| Right after you, David Pierce, I'm a resident in the Cascade areas and I have a couple of questions. One is. | 01:45:01 | |
| If we split the school district, will the method of financing the school district expenses change from what it is now? | 01:45:12 | |
| As far as methodology and sources. | 01:45:21 | |
| And the other comment, the other question is. | 01:45:25 | |
| If the city stops planning. | 01:45:33 | |
| For the future. | 01:45:38 | |
| What happens to the city? | 01:45:43 | |
| What happens to the homes we live in and the services that we expect? | 01:45:45 | |
| The city to give us If we stop planning for the future because we're maybe afraid that this may happen, where do we go? | 01:45:51 | |
| What do we do? | 01:46:03 | |
| The best I think we can do. | 01:46:06 | |
| Is take the projections of what we. | 01:46:09 | |
| Believe is going to happen. | 01:46:12 | |
| What analysis happens? What the projections are for the most possible future? | 01:46:16 | |
| And those are my comments, my questions. Thank you. Go ahead, Tim. Last one. | 01:46:30 | |
| So this is brief, but Tim Keaton. | 01:46:37 | |
| There we go. | 01:46:40 | |
| I can't see any good reason. | 01:46:45 | |
| For providing the agenda to the citizens. | 01:46:48 | |
| A mere 24 hours prior to meetings. | 01:46:52 | |
| I know other cities try to, they go to great lengths. | 01:46:57 | |
| To provide information beforehand for a couple of weeks so that people can think about it. Discussions can happen. | 01:47:02 | |
| Organizations can become involved so that by the time we come to a meeting, people are prepared with comments that they can't do | 01:47:13 | |
| in a way where 24 hours is all they have. So. | 01:47:19 | |
| Could we please, please, And I can't see any reason why anybody here would disagree, can we please, please extend greatly the | 01:47:28 | |
| amount of time that the public has access to agenda items prior to meetings? | 01:47:35 | |
| I'm going to comment on it and then you can comment on it after I close all the comments. OK, Unless you need clarity for his | 01:47:44 | |
| comment. OK, thank you. | 01:47:48 | |
| All right. So let's see the designer of construction being out to bid. My understanding of your question is that it's referring to | 01:47:53 | |
| the $2,000,000 in the budget. Can you clarify what that is? | 01:48:01 | |
| And also there was a comment about it being conceptual. So the the conceptual was what was done and we can look back in last | 01:48:10 | |
| year's budget, but it was substantial. Last construction documents are very expensive. And so that was that was the amount to | 01:48:18 | |
| budget. Just to make sure that we had enough, we would go through an RFP process or request for proposals. We'd have qualified | 01:48:25 | |
| architectural design firms bid on it and hopefully. | 01:48:32 | |
| The number would come in less, less than two million and that there'd be hope just to get it down as much as possible. That would | 01:48:40 | |
| be for construction documents. So that's ready to build billing permit. We're in the ground building the engineering and all that | 01:48:46 | |
| stuff will be included with the 2 million. The concept is what we saw tonight. | 01:48:52 | |
| Thank you. I think just for clarity purposes of the number of 50 million price tag was just. | 01:48:59 | |
| A Something that Jacob mentioned, looking into the estimated cost that our staff had come up with was or worked with the group who | 01:49:07 | |
| did the designs as 28 million and it was split and that was split between three groups. So three groups that would be 9.3 and if | 01:49:14 | |
| it was divided by some other number, it could be anywhere to 14 to 18,000 a million dollars. | 01:49:21 | |
| I think Marty articulated it well that we want to nail down those questions and Jake did a great job saying how can we itemize | 01:49:29 | |
| these things and bring it together. So let's before we have any sticker shock, let's get those numbers for what it actually would | 01:49:35 | |
| be for the community so that we really know what we're looking at. I think that's important. Let's see. So we talked about the | 01:49:41 | |
| conceptual design is actually engineer designs, price tags, OK, With the school district, there were some questions about the | 01:49:48 | |
| school district. | 01:49:54 | |
| We will be talking about the school district. We're not exactly sure how all of those things would change, but we'll talk more | 01:50:01 | |
| about that during that item. | 01:50:05 | |
| And then let's see, as far as the hope to get things out there for the public, one of the things that we've been trying to do is | 01:50:09 | |
| have work sessions. So we present the idea and we put it out for the public so that you can have the discussion. And then we bring | 01:50:17 | |
| that discussion back again for the actual action item so that you have it for at least two weeks beforehand and you have a public | 01:50:26 | |
| discussion about it. So that's one of the things that we've been working on. Marty, did you want to add to that one in particular? | 01:50:34 | |
| I was actually hoping this isn't something that's been some discussion with staff and among the council of putting something into | 01:50:44 | |
| a resolution to require within our city a policy of getting things out before 24 hours. I think that as I've been talking to | 01:50:49 | |
| staff. | 01:50:55 | |
| I think that in the beginning there might be a small adjustment to do that, but. | 01:51:02 | |
| Being able to put it on to to get an attendance that you know. | 01:51:07 | |
| Possibly seven days before a meeting, I feel like isn't too big of an ask. I also think that if anything can, we were to need to | 01:51:12 | |
| add something last minute, it would just there would have to be a special process to that or special conditions. And so I would | 01:51:20 | |
| actually like to make a motion to put some kind of clarification, something on the agenda where we could talk about that policy. | 01:51:28 | |
| We already have that on the upcoming agenda. It's scheduled for July 10th. Perfect. OK. | 01:51:36 | |
| And as we, as we have openings in the budget, I mean in the agenda, we could move it closer if that ends up being available. So it | 01:51:46 | |
| is there. All right, great. Thank you. | 01:51:53 | |
| Got a hand? OK, Jake. | 01:52:02 | |
| Did you have a specific comment? Because I was going to have you do comments during your reports. | 01:52:04 | |
| With all due respect, July 10th. | 01:52:16 | |
| Budgeting if it's just a simple. | 01:52:21 | |
| Policy of getting it posted seven days before. Why can't we just I mean King is that process to vote on that policy that wrong. | 01:52:24 | |
| I think what? | 01:52:38 | |
| Well, I know it sounds simple to say, but. | 01:52:44 | |
| I don't think you want a hard and fast rule of if it's not posted seven days ahead of time, the council can't act on it. There are | 01:52:57 | |
| emergent things that come up that may not require an emergency meeting or a special meeting, but where you might need to add | 01:53:04 | |
| something to an agenda to respond to what's happening regionally. The school district conversations a good example of that. You | 01:53:12 | |
| know, we, we're not the, we're not in the driver's seat, right? We're responding to what other people are doing. | 01:53:20 | |
| So I think the policy Marty wants drafted would be seven days as the general rule, and then we'd have to identify what the | 01:53:28 | |
| exceptions are acceptable. | 01:53:34 | |
| To that, so I would encourage some discussion on it instead of just making a blanket comment. | 01:53:39 | |
| I. | 01:53:49 | |
| I think and Mayor, please, please clarify. But I think that there's so many things that we're adding on the budget. I think she's | 01:53:51 | |
| scheduling them out so that we're not, we don't have too many things. And if you look at our items on our agenda today, we have | 01:53:57 | |
| like 5 things. I think it's not that many items and we're already 2 1/2 hours in. | 01:54:04 | |
| Can I make a motion that we put this on next in two weeks just so that we can have transparency, But this is a bigger item. I | 01:54:14 | |
| don't think anyone would. | 01:54:20 | |
| I promise to not even talk during your quickening team. | 01:54:26 | |
| Or there was something that was coming in an emergent situation that would we could add it if we needed to. I think it would be | 01:55:02 | |
| different. | 01:55:06 | |
| That's, that's one thought #2 because we've been putting the work sessions ahead of time. So there is that expansive time of two | 01:55:13 | |
| weeks and, and trying not to have anything come to our agenda for actions that are are big deals where we're putting it in a work | 01:55:20 | |
| session and then putting it on the agenda. We're double stacking the agenda purposely for this. So it's also public. | 01:55:28 | |
| There's a decision time, there's two weeks for it to go back to the citizens and then to come. I thought because our agendas right | 01:55:36 | |
| now are so stacked with obligations, it's difficult to spend time on a process when we have a lot of obligations to get through. | 01:55:43 | |
| But if, if you're just saying, hey, can we try to get this in motion and start working towards it until we can fit it onto the | 01:55:51 | |
| agenda. And like I mentioned to Marty, it's those things start clearing off the agenda, then we could add this on earlier. | 01:55:58 | |
| But I'm just prioritizing according to according to our obligations and the things that you guys also mentioned were top priority. | 01:56:06 | |
| I understand that. Could I ask the council? I'd like to make a motion to put on agenda for two weeks because I think this is the | 01:56:16 | |
| top priority because we're talking about the finances, the budget, and I don't think that they should be. The finances should be | 01:56:23 | |
| dropped for 24 hours each two, it's going to give PTSD. | 01:56:29 | |
| A massive, massive budget documents. | 01:56:36 | |
| 24 instead of. | 01:56:40 | |
| You know, getting some days. Eric had a comment. | 01:56:44 | |
| I just wanted to point out that we have council meetings every two weeks. And at our council meetings, we are getting a fairly | 01:56:48 | |
| good workload of of requests and assignments that we need to respond to by a subsequent council meeting. And having one week to to | 01:56:56 | |
| prepare for those will likely either leave us in a position where we aren't producing the kind of material that you're looking for | 01:57:04 | |
| or we're preemptively or or prematurely submitting stuff simply because. | 01:57:12 | |
| We only had a week to produce it and so there is a great risk of having. | 01:57:20 | |
| A7 day mandate when our meetings are so close together that that leaves us with very little time to respond. Well, I think that | 01:57:27 | |
| we're looking at, we're kind of we're pushing for two conflicting things. We want to have more time before. | 01:57:34 | |
| The before the OR with the agenda, we want to release seven days in advance and then at the same time we're asking to have | 01:57:43 | |
| something done ASAP and not giving the staff enough time to OR. | 01:57:48 | |
| This is what I'm getting out of it, that we're not giving the staff enough time to be able to prioritize items. And so they're | 01:57:56 | |
| they're asking or the mayor is lobbying for them to have more time and have kind of a good advance. | 01:58:02 | |
| Plan for our agenda. So I I won't second your motion. I'm not sure if Sarah will. | 01:58:09 | |
| I, I think I understand why, why Jake's doing what he's doing right, because. | 01:58:17 | |
| Because when this agenda came out and it's a sticker shock of $2,000,000, right? And people weren't prepared right there, there | 01:58:21 | |
| wasn't really an understanding. And there's a lot of budget items that are coming up hard and fast, right, So I think. | 01:58:29 | |
| I mean, I'm OK with July so long as we have public discussions about the budget, right? And there's, there's plenty of time for | 01:58:38 | |
| them to look at everything like what Sherry Kay said and go over everything line by line. | 01:58:46 | |
| I I think there's value in hitting the vote on the record that I tried, I'd like a second but. | 01:58:58 | |
| I also, I also think so we have a first by Jake, we have a second by Sarah. I'll take this time to have a little bit of | 01:59:06 | |
| discussion. I, I understand what you're saying and I'm going to push back just a little bit in the sense that we're starting a | 01:59:13 | |
| budget process in the public where we are bringing something that's brought by the staff. We're starting with the public and then | 01:59:20 | |
| we're going to go through a robust budget process. | 01:59:26 | |
| Time where you can call in and ask questions. So, umm, anyway, I appreciate that the motion has failed, right? All in favor? No, | 02:00:08 | |
| no. So it has not failed. It has not gone through, but it is on the record. So thank you. | 02:00:16 | |
| OK, We're going to hold staff committee reports and mayor and council member reports to the end so that we can get to our public | 02:00:26 | |
| hearing. I'm going to move to our consent items. Did anybody want to discuss these or can I get a motion for approval? | 02:00:32 | |
| On the consent items. | 02:00:44 | |
| Let me shift gears back where we're at, sorry. | 02:00:47 | |
| Okay. | 02:01:02 | |
| I would like a brief explanation in our local agreement. | 02:01:08 | |
| I think I understand the premise of it, but let's pull that one and out. | 02:01:13 | |
| OK. And this is 7.2. Do you have any questions on 7.1 or 7.3 or can you make a motion to approve those? | 02:01:17 | |
| I can make a motion 7.1 and 7.3. Here we have our first fight. Jake, can I get a second? | 02:01:26 | |
| Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. | 02:01:34 | |
| Roll call, Sarah, Marty, I, Jake. | 02:01:37 | |
| All right, we'll move on to 7.2. This is the approval of an interlocal agreement with Vineyards City and Salem, Orem City and | 02:01:44 | |
| Linden allowing each city to conduct inspections in this other cities. This is resolution, Resolution 2024-12 and this is bringing | 02:01:52 | |
| us into compliance with SB185 referring to building inspections, I don't know who. | 02:01:59 | |
| Chris, would you like to take this on? This is. | 02:02:08 | |
| For the Utah Code, section 158105 as amended by Senate Bill 185 requires the all jurisdictions have a list of approved third party | 02:02:14 | |
| inspection firms. The minimum number of third party inspection firms, vineyards required to have this three, and this interlocal | 02:02:21 | |
| agreement provides those three third party inspectors. | 02:02:29 | |
| So I think the city is unable to complete an inspection associated with the building permit within three business days. Then the | 02:02:37 | |
| billing permit applicant may engage a third party inspection firm from the approved list. So if we're going to be able to conduct | 02:02:44 | |
| an inspection within the three days, the applicant can contact Salem. | 02:02:50 | |
| Or Linden to. | 02:02:57 | |
| Conduct an inspection. | 02:03:00 | |
| The impact is low. Over the past year, the average number of business days to complete an inspection in Vineyard is less than one. | 02:03:03 | |
| It's .15. | 02:03:07 | |
| Currently, none of the other cities within this agreement have. | 02:03:13 | |
| Went over the three day period. | 02:03:17 | |
| It will be unlucky that this interlocal agreement will impact your inspection levels. | 02:03:20 | |
| OK. Do you have any questions about that, Jake or anyone from the Council? | 02:03:29 | |
| So the cities are playing kind of back up to us, like if we can't do it, we'll they'll allow us, We'll use their staff. | 02:03:35 | |
| Correct. We're required to have this list North City is planning on. | 02:03:47 | |
| OK, the the the basic statutory framework here, Jake, is there was a proposal before the legislature by developers that if cities | 02:03:54 | |
| can't complete the inspections within three days, that they could have their own inspector perform the work, a little like the fox | 02:04:01 | |
| guarding the hen house. The negotiation back from that was that instead of picking their own, the city could create a list and | 02:04:09 | |
| then they can pick from the city's list. | 02:04:16 | |
| Instead of using private inspectors, we've found it's more efficient to collaborate with our neighbor cities and they use ours and | 02:04:23 | |
| we use theirs. This agreement puts that in place. Yeah. What's neat about it is we've done it in the past when our people haven't | 02:04:30 | |
| had work or other people haven't had work. So it's kind of a something that we've done in the past and are used to. OK, can I get | 02:04:36 | |
| a motion? | 02:04:42 | |
| I moved to approve consent item 7.2 as presented. All right, we have the first minority. Can I get a second, second, second by | 02:04:51 | |
| Sarah? This is done by roll call Jake. | 02:04:56 | |
| Aye, Marty, Sarah and Amber's excuse. OK, that brings us to our public hearing. Transfer from Enterprise funds to internal Service | 02:05:04 | |
| fund and we're going to need a motion to go into a public hearing. So moved. Thank you. Marty, can I get a second? | 02:05:12 | |
| Second, second by Sarah, All in favor. Aye, aye. All right, We're now in a public hearing and our city Manager, Eric Ellis, will | 02:05:21 | |
| present the recommendations to transfer the funds. OK, Thank you, Mayor. So state law requires that Vineyard City once a year | 02:05:29 | |
| provide an annual disclosure for funds that are transferred from utility enterprise funds to other funds. So in this case, this is | 02:05:36 | |
| these are funds coming from water, wastewater and stormwater as well as transportation. | 02:05:44 | |
| To go into. | 02:05:53 | |
| The city's. | 02:05:55 | |
| Internal service fund to cover HR needs, admin facilities, fleet management and information systems. And so this year the total | 02:05:57 | |
| for that transfer is 803,655. | 02:06:04 | |
| Other questions? | 02:06:13 | |
| Are we asking from the public? Yes, we are asking from the public as well. | 02:06:16 | |
| Guys have questions about this. | 02:06:21 | |
| Is there any way to stay itemized? Come up to the microphone please and state your name. | 02:06:26 | |
| It is and your comment. | 02:06:35 | |
| Karen Cornelius, Village resident. That's a lot of money. So I'm just curious, is there any way to see that itemized? I've had | 02:06:39 | |
| neighbors talking about that line item on their utility bills and wondering what it was for. And I think that it would be really | 02:06:46 | |
| nice if we could see how that money is really going, what an itemization of just like we would at home like we heard earlier. So | 02:06:53 | |
| that would be something that I would like to see happen. Thanks. Karen, did you want to comment on that? | 02:07:01 | |
| I was just going to point out that the. | 02:07:10 | |
| The line item version of this was included in the agenda packet, but I could read it out if that would help. So from water | 02:07:12 | |
| $221,009 transferred into the internal services fund, wastewater 190,584, stormwater $132,050 and transportation $260,012.00. OK, | 02:07:22 | |
| thank you. Any other comments? I just want to clarify that. | 02:07:31 | |
| State your name again, Karen Cornelius, fellow resident. I think we would like to see the itemization not of the funds that was | 02:07:45 | |
| coming out of, but the funds that it's going into. | 02:07:50 | |
| I'm going to clarify that for her. | 02:07:58 | |
| Do you want to maybe explain what the internal services? Yeah, well, it says here that it's fleet. | 02:08:01 | |
| It's some information systems, it's HR. So we would like to see an itemization of those funds that that money is going into how | 02:08:08 | |
| that's being spent by the taxpayers, OK. | 02:08:15 | |
| Do you want to explain how that process works? | 02:08:24 | |
| Think I'll, I will call on you in just a second, don't you worry. | 02:08:29 | |
| There, that will be included as part of the budget review that Christie's gonna be giving us. Awesome. Thank you. I just wanted | 02:08:34 | |
| that stated in the record. Awesome. Go ahead, Jake. | 02:08:38 | |
| We're we're unmuting you, Yeah. | 02:08:44 | |
| Yeah, this. | 02:08:49 | |
| I incur with. | 02:08:52 | |
| Oh, say that one more time, Jake. You're cutting out for a minute. We want to make sure we hear you. | 02:08:57 | |
| Can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. | 02:09:03 | |
| Like instead of saying sleep it needs to say. | 02:09:08 | |
| This F 1:15 This F-150, this F-150 information system, it needs to say survey software. | 02:09:12 | |
| Cisco 8 computer, 7 phones, these are the phones human resources that needs to say this app or this budget like it. When we talked | 02:09:22 | |
| about doing budget and we talked about I don't know what number we were setting on $200.00 down to 200 or down to $300. | 02:09:32 | |
| Just putting in and saying $221,000 for the water fund, it is not broken down enough. I, I did see a transfer of these, most of | 02:09:43 | |
| these get away from these enterprise funds to transfer as much as they can keep it as small as possible and so. | 02:09:53 | |
| What can we do to vote to not allow this to happen again policy wise savings so that like is very. | 02:10:04 | |
| Clear because like right now we're voting. It's like the citizens have no idea what 800 and I mean. | 02:10:13 | |
| $803,000 is. | 02:10:20 | |
| Sammy, did you have any? | 02:10:26 | |
| I I. | 02:10:30 | |
| Requested with Sarah I believe. Forgive me if I'm wrong about that. Sarah, let me check you were on that to have expenditures. | 02:10:35 | |
| Over $5000 would mean. | 02:10:52 | |
| Council approval. I don't have anything for clear delineation of itemization down to the item. | 02:10:56 | |
| I think it would be your policy on budget expenditures and approval levels for that, that you would look at. That's probably in | 02:11:04 | |
| the same ballpark as what you're talking about the the fund transfer that is part of this hearing today is a more standard | 02:11:10 | |
| function of. | 02:11:17 | |
| Municipal accounting and I don't see anything in how the city is doing it today that is atypical from how every other city does | 02:11:24 | |
| it. I there's no commitment on how the money would be spent on what you're doing today. That's part of your budget discussion. | 02:11:32 | |
| OK. So we're just basically moving it into one bank account to the other account. You're not there are there are rules. There are | 02:11:43 | |
| rules about what balances you can keep in your various funds, and you have to make these kinds of transfers from time to time so | 02:11:50 | |
| that you don't run afoul of those rules. | 02:11:56 | |
| Take if you want to discuss it more, I could add it. I could add it to the discussion that I have you down for on May 22nd. | 02:12:04 | |
| What do you want? Do you want me to add it to that one? | 02:12:15 | |
| Yeah, this would be one. | 02:12:19 | |
| Just being very open and transparent on down to $200.00 level. I'm not saying voting on it. I think that's two separate issues of | 02:12:24 | |
| AFK spending over 5000. It needs to come to us. But I'm just saying for these transfers and everything, we need to get really, | 02:12:31 | |
| really granular just so that we can show everything right. | 02:12:39 | |
| OK, I have it. I have added it to that same agenda item that you made that request on. | 02:12:47 | |
| Any other questions from the public on this? | 02:12:56 | |
| Come on. | 02:13:00 | |
| Come on up, state your name where you're from. | 02:13:01 | |
| Ewing from the Villas. I just, I'm sorry, can you say your name on Terry Ewing? Yes, as in Jr. | 02:13:06 | |
| Your old nephew known that is um. | 02:13:15 | |
| It just came up. So we're transferring funds from the enterprise funds to the internal services fund. And then you mentioned that | 02:13:18 | |
| there's. | 02:13:21 | |
| A limit on what the funds you can can hold. So where do their excess funds go? | 02:13:25 | |
| The internal services where they transfer those. | 02:13:31 | |
| Do you guys want to answer? | 02:13:35 | |
| An internal service fund. Is overtime supposed to zero out? | 02:13:41 | |
| But obviously you have upcoming expenses. You may have a small balance in there that you're carrying over, may need to buy a new | 02:13:47 | |
| truck next year, but the balance is relatively low because of the nature of the fund. We look at what our total expenses are and | 02:13:54 | |
| we say, OK, HR, stormwater people, they hired so many people, so they used HR services. So what that's happening is they are just | 02:14:01 | |
| paying for a portion of the HR and again, it's just common. | 02:14:09 | |
| Umm, services, like I said, we have the fleet, which is all of the transport, all of vehicles that you see going around our | 02:14:17 | |
| facilities that we own and that we lease our IT. We don't have an internal IT program, but we have to go out. We actually have a | 02:14:24 | |
| list of all of the computers that will be replaced every year. Now, do I send that list out to the community so that we can go | 02:14:32 | |
| over every single item? No, I mean, we would be here forever. So I do have that detail. I have how much is being charged. | 02:14:40 | |
| Each of those items to those funds in fact we reviewed recently with the CPA and outside CPA and he was reviewing our budget | 02:14:48 | |
| document and he made the comment that our internal service fund was one of the more detailed analysis that he had seen. So I, I | 02:14:54 | |
| feel like we are doing our due diligence and I'm happy to as we go in and we meet with the council members and individual budget | 02:15:01 | |
| meetings, we will be going down through the line item detail. I just don't think that's appropriate to do in a public setting or | 02:15:07 | |
| we would be here. | 02:15:14 | |
| I understand that. And so they use it or lose the kind of thing, just roll over. You know, it rolls over. But again, the idea is | 02:15:21 | |
| that you keep it small just so that if you have a few expenses that come up that we're unanticipated, but no long term it will | 02:15:27 | |
| zero out. Does that make sense? Thank you. | 02:15:33 | |
| Any other questions, Terry? No, no. OK. | 02:15:40 | |
| Tim Heaton again, so if you do have that level of detail, what is stopping you from providing that online for public access, to | 02:15:44 | |
| review, to see the numbers, to see the level of detail for themselves? Why not do that? | 02:15:51 | |
| By law we are required to provide so much and that is on the transparency website. I just uploaded the the quarter three for | 02:16:03 | |
| fiscal year 24 last month and that's what we are required to do to show you our expenses. We also have the budget on there, but we | 02:16:10 | |
| do not need to go down into the line item D, but you know, maybe we could do is put a link to that because we're already putting | 02:16:18 | |
| it out there. I think that's yeah. So my she's not addressing my my specific question. | 02:16:26 | |
| Which is not What does the law require, which are bare minimums? | 02:16:33 | |
| My question is, what is stopping you from providing the level of detail? There's no law that says you can't do it. | 02:16:39 | |
| Not what the law requires. I want more than that. And we have the privilege to do more than that. Nothing stopping us from doing | 02:17:22 | |
| more than that. Let's do more than that. Yeah, thanks, Tim. I thought you meant what she was stating was on the transparency | 02:17:28 | |
| website. Is the detail that you were saying, is that right? Just for clarity, Transactions, Yes, but he's asking for line item | 02:17:34 | |
| budget detail, correct? That is not finalized. So we have projects that we're still discussing. So I would be happy to do that | 02:17:40 | |
| after we have approved. | 02:17:46 | |
| Approved the final budget. | 02:17:53 | |
| If that's the case, they can be labeled as such and then when the numbers are finalized, they can be labeled as such and that way | 02:18:30 | |
| there is no confusion about the provisional nature or the final status of the numbers that are provided. Thanks for those | 02:18:35 | |
| suggestions. | 02:18:40 | |
| Did you have a comment? | 02:18:46 | |
| Yeah, Christy, I just want to say I appreciate the question. Another. | 02:18:50 | |
| One, I wanted to say if we know the total dollar amount of $803,000? | 02:18:57 | |
| You're probably just grabbing that in the Ledger or Excel sheet and then column of what it actually is. So it's just that's what | 02:19:06 | |
| I'm asking for is when we do this staff report and moving it. | 02:19:13 | |
| And maybe you do say it's 800 and 306 subject to change, but this is what currently is. | 02:19:20 | |
| That's what that's what I'm asking for. OK, subject to change, but this is 50,000 is. | 02:19:29 | |
| I feel like we're asking for a lot of details being like kind of put in different places. And I don't want to create a lot of busy | 02:19:38 | |
| work if we can figure out a way to make it uniform so that we're not monopolizing time. So I really need to do that so that we're | 02:19:45 | |
| not like. | 02:19:51 | |
| I just don't want to add unnecessary work, but I do want the public to have information. I just think we have to figure out a | 02:19:58 | |
| balance here where that we're not. | 02:20:03 | |
| I think to just point of order to stay on topic, I like what you're saying. And what if we take what you're doing and put that | 02:20:10 | |
| inside of that policy discussion for the next meeting? Can we do that? | 02:20:14 | |
| All right. Anything else from the public that's sitting here at this time? OK, I'm going to close a public hearing. I need a | 02:20:20 | |
| motion. | 02:20:24 | |
| I move to close the public hearing. First by Marty, second second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. | 02:20:29 | |
| Thank you. OK, Council, do you have any questions? | 02:20:41 | |
| Jake, do you have any additional questions? | 02:20:46 | |
| No, just a comment. I just don't think I could ever vote on something so high level without, you know, like you know, I want the | 02:20:50 | |
| citizens to have this type of form. You know, we can advance and have the 803,000 itemized set up so they can see it, so that | 02:20:57 | |
| they're coming to a meeting here to be able to look at the item. I think it gives me feedback for the council member. Until then, | 02:21:04 | |
| I just wouldn't support, even if it is just a one fund to another fund. | 02:21:12 | |
| Movement so I just do those businesses in the most kind nice way. I would I would vote for OK, thanks Jake. This is a public | 02:21:19 | |
| hearing for comment regarding the recommended transfers. But today no actions going to be taken by the council. So I appreciate | 02:21:25 | |
| your comment. | 02:21:31 | |
| All right. We will move to discussion in action 9.2, Proposed tenant fiscal year, tentative fiscal year 2024-2025 budget and our | 02:21:38 | |
| Finance Director, Christy Bayless will present this. | 02:21:44 | |
| Thank you. I first wanted to review and the budget calendar. | 02:21:57 | |
| So that everyone is aware of the process that we go through as a city. | 02:22:03 | |
| That our process to create this budget actually started back on February 21st when I was three weeks into this job and we met with | 02:22:08 | |
| the council and the directors and we talked about priorities and what they wanted to see happen in this budget season. | 02:22:15 | |
| Then in March, I started looking at revenue projections. I have been following the sales tax and and property taxes very closely | 02:22:23 | |
| so that we can have accurate. And again this is projections. Remember when we talked budget, it's all projections. We're doing our | 02:22:29 | |
| best guess as to what we think is going to be happening. | 02:22:34 | |
| And then in March, I spent two weeks meeting individually with each director in their department, where they were able to come and | 02:22:41 | |
| give me all of their asks. Now, when it comes to government budget, if I could give every department everything that they needed | 02:22:49 | |
| to to work just smoothly, and I could give all of the community everything that they wanted, it would be wonderful. | 02:22:57 | |
| But what we have to do is try and give you the best bang for your buck. And so like I said, we met with the directors, we came up | 02:23:06 | |
| with their asks, and then we took those asks along with the priorities from the extra budget session that they had with the | 02:23:13 | |
| council and we tried to mesh those into something that can be adopted tonight. Again, this is just us presenting it. So by law, | 02:23:21 | |
| the first meeting in May of the City Council, the tentative budget has to be presented and accepted. | 02:23:29 | |
| And in two weeks, on the 22nd, we will be having the public hearing where we will be able to discuss it. But between now and then, | 02:23:37 | |
| Eric and I will be meeting with each council member to go over their individual asks. At that time, they will be seeing the detail | 02:23:45 | |
| that we've been talking about. Again, all of the projects that council wants and all of the projects that staff wants, it's not | 02:23:52 | |
| possible to do. And so that's why I'm a little nervous about putting that out there. | 02:24:00 | |
| I would rather wait until we have a final budget so you know what the actual projects are that we are that we are considering. I | 02:24:07 | |
| did want to mention that you should have gotten right before this meeting, Council members your quarterly report for Q3, for | 02:24:14 | |
| fiscal year 24. I'm sorry that it was late. | 02:24:20 | |
| I'm sorry that my goal is to have it the first day of the month following the end of the quarter. Now next time we would be doing | 02:24:28 | |
| that would be August 1st, but I'm going to ask to not have to do that until August 15th because we will be coming up on year end. | 02:24:34 | |
| And so it would take a couple extra weeks just to get everything finalized. But I will be emailing you another quarterly report | 02:24:40 | |
| and we'll do that quarterly going forward. And then if you have, if you can review it on your time and if you have questions then | 02:24:45 | |
| reach out to me. | 02:24:51 | |
| So let's take a look at our budget for this next year. Again, this is projections. | 02:24:58 | |
| You can see year over year our budget has gone up, has gone up, has gone up and this year it is not going up. And again that's | 02:25:07 | |
| we've talked about the economy that we're living in the way things are and we are very cognizant of that. We are trying to keep | 02:25:14 | |
| our general fund at a healthy place. And so we've had to do things a little bit different this year. But if like I said, you can | 02:25:21 | |
| see our total budget, our total budget amount is not actually going up. | 02:25:28 | |
| This year. | 02:25:35 | |
| This is our general fund. These are all of the revenues, just to clarify. | 02:25:37 | |
| When we talk about sewer, stormwater, transportation, those are enterprise funds and we'll be going over those budgets here in a | 02:25:42 | |
| second. Enterprise funds are meant to be self-sustaining so that they it's ideal that you don't have to transfer general funds to | 02:25:50 | |
| cover those expenses. We want them to be self-sustaining, making their own revenue covering all of their expenses. The general | 02:25:57 | |
| fund is where all of the taxes come in and you can see the other revenues that are listed here. | 02:26:05 | |
| Building permits, recreation fees, business licenses, all the business that the city conducts, the fees that are listed and | 02:26:14 | |
| associated with that are listed here in the revenue. | 02:26:19 | |
| This slide shows all of the expenditures that we are anticipating for fiscal year 25. It breaks it out by department and percent | 02:26:27 | |
| of total expenditures. | 02:26:32 | |
| I'm going to give you a minute to review that and if there are any questions I'd be happy to. | 02:26:39 | |
| OK. Next, I'm going to go to the water fund. Again, this is an enterprise fund, so ideally we want it to sustain itself. The blue | 02:26:48 | |
| is the revenues and the yellow or orange, excuse me, is expensive. So obviously we want the revenue to be more than expensive as | 02:26:55 | |
| we go forward so that it can sustain itself. | 02:27:01 | |
| Wastewater. | 02:27:12 | |
| The same situation now you can see that we did make an adjustment and we are tracking to where we will be able to sustain this | 02:27:15 | |
| fund on our own. This is what we want to see so that we don't have to use general funds to supplement these funds on these | 02:27:23 | |
| enterprise funds. Sorry. The next one is the storm water fund. You can see here, we have got a huge shortfall, but I think you're | 02:27:30 | |
| all aware that we are currently working on a master plan and that will address and hopefully help to correct. | 02:27:38 | |
| Some of this where the revenues are not enough to sustain and and pay for the expenses and then have a little bit of a cushion. | 02:27:46 | |
| Same thing here with the transportation fund. We are in the current, we're currently doing a master plan for that. And again, this | 02:27:54 | |
| is something that once that impact fee study and master plan is complete, we should see a correction in these numbers. | 02:28:01 | |
| Here is the internal service fund that we were talking about briefly earlier. You can see that there is no increase going from. | 02:28:10 | |
| 24 to 25. In fact, there's actually a decrease. | 02:28:19 | |
| A big part of that is we have started leasing vehicles instead of buying vehicles. And so the total cost per year has gone down. | 02:28:24 | |
| Hey, Christy, do you mind pausing just for a second? Jake has a question for a comment. Yeah. | 02:28:31 | |
| Go ahead. | 02:28:38 | |
| Hey Christy, this looks like 5 minutes ago. Oh, sorry. | 02:28:40 | |
| Can you say that again? You just, you just cut out for a minute? | 02:28:50 | |
| Sorry, can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. | 02:28:56 | |
| I understand that we have all of these apps and requests that make it like there's no way we're going to be able to pay for those | 02:29:01 | |
| things. | 02:29:05 | |
| But from a. | 02:29:11 | |
| From a City Council and also a citizen standpoint, just understanding the financial asks of everything to see this is everything | 02:29:14 | |
| that's out there is extremely helpful. | 02:29:19 | |
| Hi to everyone to say hey as we cut it. Yeah, I know we're not going to. | 02:29:28 | |
| It's not going to hit the final budget. | 02:29:35 | |
| But it really does help people to prioritize things and approach in City Council member like, hey, they're asking for paint a | 02:29:38 | |
| field or they're asking for soccer. They're like, I don't want to post it because that might not be in the final budget. So but it | 02:29:44 | |
| might be helpful because then you see how little it is and they can say, well, actually that's kind of a prior to me. Let's keep | 02:29:49 | |
| that on and cut something else, you know. | 02:29:55 | |
| Jake. | 02:30:01 | |
| Well, my anticipation is that you will be interacting with the citizens and as we meet with you and we go over this over the next | 02:30:06 | |
| couple weeks, that you will be their voice. I obviously can't sit down with each individual citizen and talk about what they think | 02:30:11 | |
| we should do. | 02:30:16 | |
| And so I'm counting on you to represent them. | 02:30:21 | |
| And again, that's why I feel like it's important that when we meet with you, we go through the line item details because not | 02:30:26 | |
| everything is going to get approved. In fact, the budget that I'm presenting tonight will be completely different than what is | 02:30:31 | |
| approved at the end of June. It's just that's the reality. | 02:30:35 | |
| No, Jake. | 02:30:45 | |
| Take the. | 02:30:48 | |
| The packet the Vineyard City projected, well, no, but it's on the website as well. But I think, I think some of our concern is. | 02:30:51 | |
| I mean, yeah, I mean, they already have access to it. People can look through it and you can see there, I don't know how many | 02:31:01 | |
| pages of this. | 02:31:05 | |
| 33 yeah. So I think what you're asking for is already available. | 02:31:10 | |
| I don't know. | 02:31:17 | |
| OK, continue. | 02:31:19 | |
| OK. | 02:31:21 | |
| And this is just as we were talking about the internal service fund, this is where the revenue and expenses come in. This is the | 02:31:25 | |
| breakdown that you were asking for earlier. You can see that the general fund has the largest contribution to the internal service | 02:31:32 | |
| fund, but that's because it covers so many different departments, Parks and rec and finance and city manager, it covers so many | 02:31:39 | |
| departments and that what that's why they have a higher percentage of the revenue that comes into the internal service fund. | 02:31:46 | |
| Expenditures, you can see it broken out by the total expenses that are anticipated for next year. Again, this is just our best | 02:31:55 | |
| projection and it is broken out by the number of vehicles that each. | 02:32:01 | |
| Fund needs and the number of computers that are going to be replaced in each fund. And then the HR is done on a percentage of | 02:32:08 | |
| total payroll so that we can say the general fund has this percentage of total payroll. And so that's how we apply the HR costs. | 02:32:17 | |
| So it there is a method to what looks like madness to you? | 02:32:26 | |
| Then the last one I wanted to talk about is the capital projects. This is something you're going to see something this year in the | 02:32:33 | |
| proposed budget that you don't usually see and that is a transfer from capital projects into the general fund because we have | 02:32:41 | |
| overspent and need to pull some of that fund back in to make sure that we have a healthy balance in the general fund. | 02:32:48 | |
| These are just the proposed projects that are listed here on this page and the next page. And again, I expect these projects will | 02:32:56 | |
| be very different at when it's all said and done. There will be some that are no longer on there. There will be others that have | 02:33:03 | |
| been added that are not currently on there so. | 02:33:09 | |
| Any questions on that? | 02:33:16 | |
| Any questions? | 02:33:19 | |
| Go ahead, Jake. | 02:33:23 | |
| I think my concern is that a lot of this is still. | 02:33:27 | |
| Miscellaneous 50,000. Miscellaneous 30,000. | 02:33:34 | |
| Or meetings. | 02:33:39 | |
| And it's a very just large numbers with no visibility of poor memberships in the final budget. Are we going to get details of like | 02:33:42 | |
| fiscal World Trade Center Utah membership and this is the car and. | 02:33:48 | |
| This is the 40,000 food we've been spending this high level. | 02:33:56 | |
| Marty, did you have something? I, I was just saying it, Jake, you're asking for something more granular, right? You're asking for | 02:34:03 | |
| something that you want to break down of. | 02:34:07 | |
| Like, are you specifically asking like on capital projects? Are you asking for just everything in general? | 02:34:13 | |
| Just just because I went through it in the last couple of days, it's still extremely, you know, some of the departments actually | 02:34:21 | |
| increased in size, they're miscellaneous budget and it's like. | 02:34:28 | |
| OK, I thought that was something we didn't more often wanted it very granular or meetings increased as well from what the letter | 02:34:36 | |
| showed was it was just a bunch of food going out. So it's like doesn't really help us understand. I'm I'm all for employee | 02:34:44 | |
| leading, you know, and having some parties like what parties are we improving and not and there's really very high level. | 02:34:51 | |
| Jake, at our recent training down in Saint George, this very same question came up. And the point of a City Council is to set | 02:35:02 | |
| legislative priorities and a budget that is then managed by a city administrator. And, and I get that there's a desire to dive in | 02:35:12 | |
| and and look at the granular, but that is really the job of the city administrator and your job as a City Council is to determine. | 02:35:22 | |
| Where do we want to allocate funds? | 02:35:33 | |
| If we're talking public works, where do we want to allocate funds within public works? But but the specific details, we don't know | 02:35:35 | |
| all the meetings, we don't know all the specific memberships that that is one of the jobs of the city administrators to is to | 02:35:43 | |
| review those requests by department heads on a, on a case by case and make an informed decision with prudence based on the the | 02:35:51 | |
| guidelines of the budget that has been set forth by the council on a on a specific basis. | 02:35:59 | |
| And and if and if that was what the council wanted to do that what that would be a an administrative dive that that really isn't | 02:36:07 | |
| the place of the City Council to be doing well. And additionally, I'm going to add to that. We additionally I'm gonna add to that | 02:36:14 | |
| we do have the discussion for kind of what you're talking about for May 22nd. | 02:36:21 | |
| To come back and you had talked about kind of wanting to dive into that policy. What if we save that discussion for that time and | 02:36:30 | |
| as you guys are working individually making sure you can get what you need and if you don't have it what you need by the 22nd, you | 02:36:35 | |
| can always discuss that with the Council. | 02:36:41 | |
| Something your determination and then they can guide that policy can can we save that for that meeting? | 02:36:47 | |
| Yeah. I mean, that's when we're going to dig into it, right? My only perspective, I understand that throughout the year, I, I | 02:36:56 | |
| don't get, I don't get to micromanage the administrative side of the. | 02:37:02 | |
| Hotels and travel around the world and stuff. This is my only time legislatively during the budget to see it. And so I, I would | 02:37:09 | |
| push back and say I better see it, you know? | 02:37:17 | |
| Detailed in order to approve it because this is my only time I don't get to micromanage you. I only get the opportunity now and I | 02:37:27 | |
| feel like I have a right to granularly see it. So we'll talk about this on the 22nd. Thanks for your comment, Jake. All right, | 02:37:32 | |
| continue. Continue, Christy. | 02:37:38 | |
| Is that it? That's it, OK. Any additional comments on the tentative budget as it is? | 02:37:44 | |
| That's tentative. I don't know if I saw that. No, I would just encourage you, Jake, to make sure to maybe make a goal to meet with | 02:37:52 | |
| Christy so that if you have questions that maybe could be answered, like if you want to get more into the granular, it definitely | 02:37:59 | |
| will take more time. And so I definitely think it'd be worth you setting up an appointment to sit down and see things. | 02:38:07 | |
| We do need to make a motion on this. Yeah, I'll motion. | 02:38:16 | |
| Go ahead, Marty. | 02:38:21 | |
| I motion to approve. Hold on. | 02:38:26 | |
| The proposed tentative fiscal year 2024 Dash 2025 budget as presented. OK, we have a motion to adopt by Marty, so I get a second | 02:38:31 | |
| by Sarah. Any discussion? | 02:38:38 | |
| If not, I'll do this by roll call. Oh, go ahead, Jake. | 02:38:46 | |
| I only discussion similar to the RDA. I would never vote even on that sort of cut the budget unless it was fine item to be able to | 02:38:50 | |
| do for my own, you know? | 02:38:55 | |
| And just for the record, you mean more so than what's in the budget packet right now? | 02:39:02 | |
| Yeah. | 02:39:07 | |
| Understand meetings and food and. | 02:39:11 | |
| Travel. You know on what you're what you're projecting to be doing, right? | 02:39:14 | |
| Mayor, can I make a quick legal note? Yeah. So just just to so all the council members are clear what you're voting on today is | 02:39:20 | |
| approval does not mean their acceptance does not mean approval. Acceptance means you've received it. You have it. This is the | 02:39:28 | |
| tentative budget. There will be no approval until you approve the final budget. Yeah. And you're not agreeing with it or agreeing | 02:39:35 | |
| that you've seen everything that you need. You're just accepting it in general. It's still your choice. | 02:39:43 | |
| I could agree with that somewhat, but I think it's accepting it in the level of transparency that we would want it to be accepted. | 02:39:51 | |
| I understand that. Okay, All right, Sarah. | 02:39:57 | |
| Yesterday. | 02:40:04 | |
| OK, Marty. Yes, yes, Jake. Amber is excused. All right, we'll go on to 9.3. This discussion in action was related to the Alpine | 02:40:05 | |
| School District redistrict redistricting meeting that happened between Orem, Vineyard, Linden and Pleasant Grove. They have been | 02:40:13 | |
| discussing an interlocal opportunity. There were a couple school districts. The school district had a few cities that went into | 02:40:20 | |
| some interlocals and it left these four cities to have a discussion. | 02:40:28 | |
| I'm going to let Marty, who's been doing a really great job representing, representing us as a council, to lead out on this | 02:40:37 | |
| discussion where she can recap for you, if you weren't able to follow along, what some of the outcomes were of that discussion we | 02:40:44 | |
| had with the interlocal discussion. And then additionally, she attended a meeting that Alpine School District put on to have a | 02:40:51 | |
| further discussion on finances this afternoon. | 02:40:58 | |
| And then we can have a quick discussion and and we'll go from there. Go ahead, Marty. There's a lot in this discussion just even | 02:41:05 | |
| in the meeting this afternoon, there's a lot. But just to recap. | 02:41:13 | |
| Alpine School District put out a went into a study. Results were provided with several different options. The school district is | 02:41:26 | |
| in the is currently in the process of researching these different options and putting it onto and potentially putting on a | 02:41:35 | |
| recommendation or an option that they think might be best for the district for our community. | 02:41:43 | |
| Overall throughout the district to vote on. | 02:41:53 | |
| Alongside that process, there's a new there was new legislation that was passed where cities can actually go into interlocal | 02:41:57 | |
| agreements to create their own school districts. Now, the law is still something that everyone's trying to completely understand. | 02:42:05 | |
| There's a lot of questions that still need to be answered or a lot of, I guess, unknowns just in this process. | 02:42:13 | |
| And So what has currently happened is Saratoga, Eagle Mountain, Cedar Valley, and forgive me, there's another small town out | 02:42:22 | |
| there, Cedar Fort. | 02:42:27 | |
| Oh, did I take? What are they? | 02:42:33 | |
| Oh, Fairfield and Cedar Fort, they went into an or they are beginning the process of going into an interlocal agreement. All four | 02:42:37 | |
| cities out there voted to to start the process. And then in the same breath we have a central, so that's called our W option. In | 02:42:46 | |
| the central location. We have Lehigh City, Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills and American Fork that have signed or that have voted to | 02:42:54 | |
| start the process of looking into and going into an interlocal agreement. | 02:43:03 | |
| Both of those proposals or resolutions would go onto the ballot if approved within the timelines they have to meet and those would | 02:43:12 | |
| be left for the citizens in their areas to vote on. So in consequence to both of those proposals, it leaves Vineyard, Pleasant | 02:43:20 | |
| Grove, Orem and Linden in a potential school district. Whether we have the we have the option to go into an interlocal with these | 02:43:28 | |
| three other cities or we have the option to not go into an interlocal. | 02:43:36 | |
| And we could still end up as a school district depending on how the other two interlocal agreement proposals pan out. On top of | 02:43:45 | |
| that factor, as I stated before, Alpine School District still has the potential to add on to the ballot a question or an option | 02:43:52 | |
| that they think is best to potentially split our district. So there are so many moving parts. And last night we got together as | 02:43:59 | |
| four city councils. | 02:44:07 | |
| It was, it was one. It's the wonderful people. I've really enjoyed the process getting to know. | 02:44:16 | |
| All the city councils from Orem, Linden and Pleasant Grove and what it's sounding like. | 02:44:21 | |
| We have a, we have a, we have a need as a council to discuss. | 02:44:28 | |
| Our desires whether or not to go into an interlocal with these other cities, but we kind of are tied. Our hands are a little bit | 02:44:36 | |
| tied because Pleasant Grove and Linden have both publicly, well, Pleasant Grove has voted. | 02:44:44 | |
| They will not go into an interlocal. So if an interlocal was created, Pleasant Grove is officially. | 02:44:52 | |
| Out Linden has stated that they do not have interest in going through an interlocal, but they could and they have not put a vote | 02:44:58 | |
| on their schedule to go into that or talk about it as a council publicly. So that leaves and then Orem, a split council. From what | 02:45:05 | |
| I can understand you, it seems like part of their council would like to enter into an interlocal agreement and part of their | 02:45:13 | |
| council wouldn't. So that leaves Vineyard and as a council we need to discuss. | 02:45:21 | |
| That. | 02:45:29 | |
| If. | 02:45:31 | |
| Would have to schedule that meeting so we could vote on that and it has to be done by next Friday if we want to have the | 02:46:10 | |
| opportunity, even though nobody might want to do it with us. | 02:46:15 | |
| Noting the outcomes of that discussion. | 02:46:59 | |
| There was a lot of information yesterday that was helpful, so I talked to Marty today. We have a teaspoon of information to make | 02:47:08 | |
| this decision right And the most important thing. | 02:47:14 | |
| I feel like is that we get all of all of the information out as best we can and then get it out to the public to see what you guys | 02:47:21 | |
| how what, what you feel. | 02:47:26 | |
| Like what you would like to see happen because it's there's people that feel really strongly in both ways, but I think education | 02:47:32 | |
| is power. So, so we get the pros and cons to to both right A2 way split or the interlocals. And just I think what, what Mayor | 02:47:40 | |
| Young said was if we, if we decide to do an interlocal, it gives us time. | 02:47:49 | |
| Is that right? He did say that, yeah. So, yeah, because if we were to vote to start an interlocal, which like I said, we'd have to | 02:47:58 | |
| make sure other cities would want to do that with us. But if we were to decide to start it, that would start the 45 day process | 02:48:06 | |
| where we would have two public hearings and then we would get to research. We'd have to study it more as well, right? | 02:48:14 | |
| So yeah, it does give you time to study it as a community. Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see. | 02:48:23 | |
| Yeah. The pros and cons of an interlocal, I think it sounds like it could be good. So I guess the mayor's point is do we want to | 02:48:32 | |
| just pick, because if the deadline's next Friday and no one else goes into it, then it's, do you agree that we wouldn't need to | 02:48:38 | |
| vote on that? | 02:48:44 | |
| Right. Not if not, if nobody invites us to the party. So maybe we put a tentative special meeting on the calendar close to Friday. | 02:48:51 | |
| And if anyone else goes into it, yeah. | 02:48:58 | |
| Does that sound like we can have that discussion? Additionally, I apologize I have like a mint in my mouth, my throat was itchy | 02:49:04 | |
| but I just want to point out too if we don't go into an interlocal. | 02:49:11 | |
| The sentiment was to ask the school district to create a survey. | 02:49:20 | |
| That each community could send out and collect data from on what residents want to do to help their decision because. | 02:49:26 | |
| Not only pending what we do, but no matter what we do, they have to make a determinate determination on July 12th and whether or | 02:49:36 | |
| not they'll put initiative on their ballot. And so they'll make the decision that day. And so really understanding the pulse of | 02:49:42 | |
| our community is something that we need to capture either way. | 02:49:49 | |
| Did you have a comment or would you, should we just make a motion to go into A to retain that date? OK, go ahead. | 02:49:57 | |
| I just think that this is really unfortunate. | 02:50:08 | |
| I I, I feel like in that meeting there was some. | 02:50:13 | |
| Bad feelings that we were walking into and. | 02:50:19 | |
| Looking to the history of you know, or splitting without with ASD and watching that require not being at the table. | 02:50:27 | |
| As in two years ago, a year ago. | 02:50:37 | |
| And watching them argue over data and then ASD refusing they're not wanting to get over. And then the numbers shifting and | 02:50:40 | |
| changing. | 02:50:46 | |
| I think that opened up Pandora's box across the county. And I think that argument really, you know, Washington DC governments go | 02:50:53 | |
| back and forth between opened up the eyes of the West side and and then obviously the bond not passing. | 02:51:02 | |
| Has really helped the West side see the finances and they're not going to get schools. And so, you know, the West side voting | 02:51:13 | |
| unanimously. | 02:51:17 | |
| Across their six is a very strong message that they know financially it makes sense to them because of the bond. | 02:51:23 | |
| Now seeing the central vote unanimously as well. | 02:51:31 | |
| And I, and I think it has to do with trust all ten of those cities asked ASD, are you going to put something on the ballot? And | 02:51:38 | |
| they perfectly well could speed up that decision and make some commitments and say we are going to commit to putting a two or | 02:51:45 | |
| three-way split on the ballot, but they don't want to. Well, actually Jake, oh, wait, wait, let him finish. | 02:51:52 | |
| Especially with the board's public comments of if they have their personal desire, they would prefer notebook to have them any. I | 02:52:01 | |
| counseled by board members and said that in public meetings. | 02:52:08 | |
| And so my my thing that I don't want for Vineyard to happen is to see what has happened in Orem of the city versus an organization | 02:52:16 | |
| stronger together where there is just this pity each other. | 02:52:24 | |
| And what I saw yesterday, you know, when I asked that question of Pleasant Rd. OK, so you know, you've got these ten cities. What | 02:52:33 | |
| is your plan? And and their response goes, well, I'm going to get politically important to get involved. And I I, my heart just | 02:52:40 | |
| hurt because I was like you, you as a Pleasant Grove City are going to go and get involved politically within the cities of | 02:52:47 | |
| American Fork and Lehigh. | 02:52:54 | |
| I just thought, OK, so we're gonna, we're gonna argue this out and and and I just don't think that's the role of another city to | 02:53:02 | |
| go to another border. I mean, I could, I could have paid it with another city came in and we voters say this, we're gonna go, but | 02:53:09 | |
| we're gonna go and get to your voters and, you know, change, change that vote and so. | 02:53:16 | |
| So that's my first comment. Can Marty respond to you? She had a comment. See your comment. Yeah, there's a, there's a few points I | 02:53:24 | |
| need to make sure to share because they're important. ASD is planning on voting on May 14th. I believe that they say 14th. I | 02:53:32 | |
| thought it was 12/1 of those days. So it's before the deadline for the other cities. They're planning on having their vote to say | 02:53:39 | |
| whether or not they would put something on the ballot and what it is. | 02:53:46 | |
| And so that that is happening, yeah, that's the date I was given. And if I'm, if I'm wrong, no, no, I thought you meant July 12th | 02:53:54 | |
| for the finals, but you mean no, that's May 14th. Is the preemptive, is that what you're talking about? | 02:54:01 | |
| And then they would go through the process and then they would submit it to the county by by July 12th. So I think that's | 02:54:10 | |
| important to recognize that that next week they are going to be sharing their intent with us. | 02:54:17 | |
| Be it however their council or their board votes. And then another thing. There's two other things I want to address that you | 02:54:24 | |
| said. There is one important thing that I wanted to make sure the public knew. | 02:54:30 | |
| Jamie, could you answer the question lease, revenue bond? | 02:54:37 | |
| Does that go on a ballot or is that something a board could vote through? | 02:54:42 | |
| Do you know? | 02:54:47 | |
| Anyone. | 02:54:49 | |
| Yeah. So the school district, I guess I'll explain what she's talking about, the two different bonds, one that that one that | 02:54:52 | |
| failed on the ballot and then the additional that could be put in without a little more detail on. So the context of it is I | 02:55:00 | |
| attended a meeting today where they discussed, they discussed numbers that were incorrect from the MTG study that the school | 02:55:07 | |
| district hired and they were fixing everything. And then they added some extra slides and said. | 02:55:15 | |
| Now listen, no matter what happens like split option 3 for whatever happens, there's still this possibility of an A lease revenue | 02:55:22 | |
| bond going through for 2024 that would get Saratoga Springs. I don't know how many 100 million, I have it in my notes, I'm sorry. | 02:55:30 | |
| But there is a large bond that would be put that could be pushed through with the way I see it. And what would happen is we would | 02:55:38 | |
| be splitting. | 02:55:46 | |
| That cost with a split. So I said that really poorly. I apologize. So I think I understand what you're saying. I I can get you an | 02:55:54 | |
| answer. The rules for school districts are different than the rules for cities. So I need to do a little bit of research to make | 02:56:00 | |
| sure. So if that bond happens. | 02:56:06 | |
| And splits happen, then the debt of that bond will be divided. | 02:56:14 | |
| And 20% of that debt goes with Saratoga Westside School District and then. | 02:56:20 | |
| 80% would go to either a east side school district or a, you know, 40-30 something split, 40 something to 30 something split | 02:56:27 | |
| between Lehigh Central District and what would be the, you know, they call it EI think we're South of the four cities. And I think | 02:56:34 | |
| it's important to pay attention to what Marty's articulating because what she's saying is if they vote on that bond before the | 02:56:41 | |
| interlocal splits occur. | 02:56:49 | |
| Then even with, well, once the interlocals occur and the school districts are split, the bond wouldn't matter because each | 02:56:57 | |
| district would go into it by themselves. But if like you're saying, they vote on it in 2024, what Marty is saying really well is | 02:57:04 | |
| that that bond becomes all of our shared debt. And so even if they interlocals occur and three districts happen, they divide that | 02:57:11 | |
| like a marriage. | 02:57:18 | |
| And so the important, the importance of this is to say when you're going to the school district, if these interlocals are | 02:57:26 | |
| occurring, if an initiative is going to the ballot, you wouldn't necessarily want to pass a bond that then gets divided between | 02:57:33 | |
| however the mapping works out at the end. And that question I can't answer because a lease revenue bond on like a general | 02:57:40 | |
| obligation is tied to specific facilities and the payments on those specific facilities. | 02:57:48 | |
| So however they're divided up and moved around, those obligations would remain in some form. | 02:57:56 | |
| And I think one thing that I want to note just for the record, because I think that the narrative and I'm sorry, Jack, I know you | 02:58:03 | |
| have another comment. | 02:58:06 | |
| Umm, this goes hand in hand with Pleasant Groves. Umm, your comment with Pleasant Grove. I don't agree with Pleasant Grove's | 02:58:11 | |
| desire to get involved with Lehigh Central proposal. Umm, I don't condemn them for it either. I'm just saying that I would choose | 02:58:19 | |
| not to be that just because I understand Lehigh's desires to split. And I respect that. They have their reasons and I respect that | 02:58:27 | |
| whatever we decide, we have our reasons. But I do understand that there are. | 02:58:34 | |
| Pleasant Grove is deeply affected by all of this and so their their choice to go on the offense and attack politically. | 02:58:43 | |
| Is frankly their choice. | 02:58:53 | |
| The can I add to that? Yeah, I would say, and we'd have to go listen to the minutes. But I feel like what I heard was when you | 02:58:55 | |
| asked do you want to do nothing? And they said what we want to do is take action by doing nothing and that we want the school | 02:59:02 | |
| board to make the decision. | 02:59:08 | |
| I don't know if their intent was to say they were going to rally and breakdown the initiative of Lehigh rather heavily support the | 02:59:16 | |
| initiative in a ballot item that Alpine School District put in. I think to say any more than that from what I remember would be | 02:59:23 | |
| out mischaracterizing them. But we would have to read the minutes, you know, and I think that's a fair statement. I I don't ever | 02:59:31 | |
| want to speak for them. And so I thank you, Mayor, for that clarification. | 02:59:39 | |
| And then I will say lastly that at the end of the day, there's two mangoes I have for not only Vineyard City, for the entire | 02:59:48 | |
| school district is there are children in need of new facilities out on the West side. And there is a circumstance where we might | 02:59:56 | |
| have to help pay for it. And I know it's not great and I'm deeply concerned about the tax burden to our community, but I am also | 03:00:03 | |
| deeply concerned about children not having a place, a safe place. | 03:00:11 | |
| To learn and so I think that there is a huge balance here in in all of the things happening but my number one concerns as a | 03:00:19 | |
| representative for Vineyard City Council is what can I do to help our students have continued good high value education, high | 03:00:26 | |
| standard education while keeping our tax dollars low and so. | 03:00:33 | |
| To move forward on any position, I would need proof that this would be the best step for both of those circumstances. OK, go | 03:00:42 | |
| ahead, Jake. | 03:00:47 | |
| Thanks for taking time. | 03:00:54 | |
| That's how I took it. We're going to go and the comments after the meeting and what they were going to be organizing, I was like, | 03:00:58 | |
| I just don't think that you guys don't go into Lehigh America or you know, but. | 03:01:11 | |
| But my, the other thing though, is it comes back to trust, you know, when, when Aura, when sorry, when AFD gave data that wasn't | 03:01:25 | |
| good and it was corrected. And even today, like in talking to ASD again, had to correct their data, they were off by 20 million | 03:01:35 | |
| today, right? Or 18 or 20 million on having to correct the numbers for the West side in, in today's meeting in which category? | 03:01:44 | |
| Are we legally keeping the door open and having an option? | 03:02:40 | |
| Especially because the legislature is for the county what they didn't even know what government body was going to rule it to | 03:02:45 | |
| agenda. If two items are on the vote, which one supersedes? Is it the city supersedes the school district or not? And so I was | 03:02:55 | |
| just so disappointed because it was like, wow, I would love to have oxygen on the table as data changes and. | 03:03:05 | |
| I think the discussion really involved a couple things. You had a group that was saying, hey, let's be proactive in sending a | 03:03:51 | |
| message that we want a three district split and let's send a message saying that we're going to act in this direction because this | 03:04:00 | |
| is what we feel is kind of best. And the other group was saying, hey, I feel like it would be better for all of us if it was | 03:04:08 | |
| Lehigh down to Orem and if we take the stands to. | 03:04:17 | |
| Enter in this interlocal because we're leftover, then we're sending a message for the July 12th meeting that we're OK with a | 03:04:26 | |
| different option than the option 3, which was the two split. And since they had a desire for the two way split versus the | 03:04:33 | |
| three-way split it they were taking a proactive approach and not sending a message. Because when you do 3 interlocals as was | 03:04:40 | |
| discussed, it's these preemptive interlocals that kind of sends a message across, you know? | 03:04:47 | |
| If you guys want to continue this discussion to to bring more things forward, I think it's good and I'll turn that time back over | 03:06:07 | |
| to you, Jake. But otherwise, we could make a motion. Jake, go ahead. | 03:06:12 | |
| So I I filled a phone call from a very large group out of Lehigh today that called me that is pro toothless and they were so angry | 03:06:18 | |
| that was so funny. There are their thought was that taking their local from a group like Pleasant Grove that is for two doing an | 03:06:28 | |
| interlocal would allow the four cities to come together to do a study to show better data. | 03:06:38 | |
| To that would back up a two district slip and there they were really frustrated that there isn't a good local agreement between | 03:06:49 | |
| the four and a study Commission because they felt like Pleasant Grove and Orem that is the their council is. | 03:06:59 | |
| Pro tea waistlet right So they can put some data together to. | 03:07:09 | |
| Three ways, but we wouldn't be agreeing to study not a two way split and that would cause. | 03:07:54 | |
| No to go into an interlocal agreement. | 03:08:01 | |
| Study this freeway, but we also want to understand the finances of A2 way we still could do that. | 03:08:07 | |
| You just want to have the opportunity to go into a three if you thought it was relevant, but if it was 3, then you could go into a | 03:08:15 | |
| 2. But I think we've exhausted the point and I I think we have an opportunity to do it again. | 03:08:20 | |
| Next week, if that opportunity comes to us, what if we make a motion and we belabor it then? | 03:08:27 | |
| Eric, did you have something? | 03:08:36 | |
| Comment is this is that? | 03:08:38 | |
| I love the comment from pleasant room with the ladies that I don't sit on the school board. And I would echo that as well. I don't | 03:08:41 | |
| sit on the school board. I don't cancel. And this type of massive decision should be involving 50, a hundred, 200 citizens just | 03:08:48 | |
| within venue. They're really, really well educated. And I wonder if doing a Zoom town hall, Marty, you're the leader of the | 03:08:56 | |
| education sentiment of like next Tuesday. You could. | 03:09:03 | |
| Have a human a you know, and, and have people from maybe you, you were there and I'm there. I think it would be very helpful to | 03:09:12 | |
| say this is being thrown on us and we're we didn't do zoom like Tuesday night or something like that. I think it could really show | 03:09:19 | |
| that we want to gather and just say, come and talk to us. Come and talk to us. We just want to hear your voice. We want to hear a | 03:09:26 | |
| different perspective would be very helpful. | 03:09:32 | |
| I purposely didn't want this. Our town hall scheduled over the next two weeks and I'm in full mom mode with soccer, baseball and | 03:09:41 | |
| in school year. I know I need to. I would love to engage the community in it but I can't commit to next week without missing some | 03:09:48 | |
| important things. Well I can say this if if they offer us to go into an interlocal and that's what the council decides, you'll | 03:09:56 | |
| have 45 days to really take have the time to talk to our residents if that's the case. | 03:10:04 | |
| OK. And Marty, did you confirm next the 17th? I thought it was the 11th. | 03:10:52 | |
| We could go back and look at the attorney, he said. Next Friday. Next Friday, Jake, is that what you remember in that meeting when | 03:10:58 | |
| they attended? | 03:11:03 | |
| Is it? | 03:11:10 | |
| It looks like it is the 14th. | 03:11:14 | |
| And we would only have Monday or this Friday. | 03:11:17 | |
| Yeah. | 03:11:24 | |
| All right. | 03:11:26 | |
| So presumably Monday Friday is the deadline. | 03:11:28 | |
| From a city that wants partner. | 03:11:33 | |
| Oh, please make your comment. | 03:11:40 | |
| And then just for clarity on this Friday is when we would receive it. We can reach out to those cities. I'd be happy to do that or | 03:11:43 | |
| happy to have staff do that. And then we take that deadline. And if that's the case, we will notice it for Monday. | 03:11:52 | |
| And how about we keep 6:00? | 03:12:01 | |
| I think her parents that's too early. | 03:12:06 | |
| It's too early for parents. | 03:12:09 | |
| I think that's true. They're just getting them out from other activities and trying to get. | 03:12:11 | |
| Oh, thank you. That was from Karen. She said she felt like that was too early. I apologize for not having that on the record. And | 03:12:16 | |
| what I will say to that is this, this would just put us into an opportunity for an interlocal. I think between that time, each | 03:12:22 | |
| council person can go out to their people and their constituents and go look for it. And then we can do something broader after | 03:12:29 | |
| that. So can we retain this time on everybody's schedule? OK, if that is the motion, that would be Monday at 6:00. | 03:12:36 | |
| OK, now that motion hasn't been made. Marty, you had a comment. I'm OK. Marty's OK. OK. I need motion, though. | 03:12:45 | |
| I'm going to say something. | 03:12:57 | |
| I feel like it would be disingenuous to not share that I have a lot of concerns with starting the process of an interlocal. | 03:12:59 | |
| And I, I do feel that that Alpine School district, I'm looking forward to hearing from them more, as in Sid Lemons comments she | 03:13:08 | |
| was saying. | 03:13:13 | |
| Her intent in that statement was saying that she feels that it's best in the hands of the school district. They are voted by their | 03:13:19 | |
| constituents to be handling school district needs and this new legislation has changed and put in a very complicated decision that | 03:13:27 | |
| I've been studying for 2 1/2 years. It constantly has ever changing numbers that it's hard to get a specific on. And so I do not | 03:13:35 | |
| love this new legislation and I feel that leaving it in the hands of Alpine School District is how. | 03:13:43 | |
| It should be and so I just wanted to be, I wanted to be forthcoming and sharing publicly that I am against and then a local but | 03:13:51 | |
| knowing that my council might not feel the same way as me. I respect the process and I would be willing to meet and obviously | 03:13:58 | |
| discuss this further. Great. Is that a motion? | 03:14:04 | |
| To potentially have a special session on Monday May 13th. | 03:14:13 | |
| Sarah seconded. All in favor. Aye, All right. | 03:14:56 | |
| It's really late, but if you have something that you've been working on, Marty, you belabor jurors and the really positive | 03:15:02 | |
| belabored way, you know, just like the next meeting. But do you have anything else to add? No, no, thank you. Okay, Sarah, Jake, | 03:15:07 | |
| do you have anything to add? | 03:15:11 | |
| Yeah, we went through the process. | 03:15:18 | |
| I would like to engage the right department on travel policies, the food, miscellaneous and vehicle and rewriting those. Is anyone | 03:15:23 | |
| leading that effort there that I take the first stab at it with meeting with Eric and and the staff to make sure we have the right | 03:15:31 | |
| policies. OK, so right, right now I have. | 03:15:39 | |
| Identified travel budgets. Review per diem policy. Review hotel policy. | 03:15:48 | |
| Looking for potential savings in unneeded software and review how often vehicles leave the county all being worked on to present | 03:15:53 | |
| to the council to then go into something more detailed at that point. But that is all going to be coming forward. And then if the | 03:16:00 | |
| council wants to move forward with additional changes or if you want to add to that, what I can do is I can schedule you into | 03:16:06 | |
| those meetings. Would that work for you? | 03:16:13 | |
| Yeah. | 03:16:21 | |
| If those are going to be done before we do the budget, yes, that's just like I told you, those we're going to put that along with | 03:16:24 | |
| the budget. Yeah. So I have all of those prepared for you. | 03:16:29 | |
| I didn't see a date on this budget in my last working session requesting the World Trade Center and aerospace beyond this meeting. | 03:16:38 | |
| Did you put a date on? Yeah, So I sent an e-mail back to have the quarterly reports and the World Trade Center reviews started or | 03:16:45 | |
| implemented right now. And then I have it on. They're going through and they're going to assess all of those details and get them | 03:16:52 | |
| all together. And then as soon as that's done, I will put it on an agenda. | 03:16:59 | |
| And I said a deadline for the meeting, the first meeting in August. But if we clear time, I can bump it up and if the work has | 03:17:06 | |
| been done by our staff, I'll bump that sooner. Does that work? | 03:17:13 | |
| These are budget items, so we would need to discuss these in the budget, right? If you, if the City Council was going to add | 03:17:21 | |
| anything to the budget on them, we could. Since there's no request for it going in, we don't need to. And if there was something | 03:17:27 | |
| further that could happen with it, it could go through an amendment. | 03:17:32 | |
| So I just thought that would workout timeline. | 03:17:39 | |
| Well, I would like. | 03:17:43 | |
| To make a motion that we do this before the budget on both of those aerospace and. | 03:17:48 | |
| Yes, we do have a different presentation. You have wanted to review policy and costs and benefits and it's going to take some time | 03:17:55 | |
| to get those things together. | 03:18:01 | |
| So I thought that was a little bit more robust than just having some people come in and talk to us. If we can schedule something | 03:18:09 | |
| out in between that time and it fits on the agenda, I'd be happy to put that on. I have all of your priorities outlined and I | 03:18:14 | |
| will. | 03:18:19 | |
| Set it up in priority and send you things and ask you which ones you want to rotate off. | 03:18:25 | |
| Two different council. | 03:18:31 | |
| Utah membership started in April. | 03:18:34 | |
| So. | 03:18:37 | |
| Chances of getting a refund or diminished weekly on full refund? | 03:18:38 | |
| OK, I see your ask. | 03:18:43 | |
| I will discuss internally with staff and then come back to you on that. Is that OK? | 03:18:47 | |
| Yeah, I'm just gonna bring it up weekly until we get this. Yeah, I, I appreciate that. And then we can talk about your priorities | 03:18:54 | |
| and see which ones we can put on. So. All right. | 03:18:59 | |
| Moving on the next day, David Pearson. | 03:19:08 | |
| We do have that visitor, our constituent, with us today. | 03:19:12 | |
| David reached out to me, the Goodman he is, and he brought to my attention a cement for picking your Blackhawk or cement into the | 03:19:17 | |
| water basin. Can we? | 03:19:22 | |
| Describe it later, but I agree with him as well. I think he grabs water basin is overflowed parking at Grove Park dysfunction | 03:19:29 | |
| really well. I believe it was 1.2 million or 1.5 million. I don't know if you talked about it, but there was a, there was a | 03:19:37 | |
| request from council. So each of us received that letter and we are really excited about receiving it. But there was a request | 03:19:45 | |
| that he mentions it at the next council meeting when we talk about the budget versus extending tonight's meeting. | 03:19:53 | |
| Would that be OK? | 03:20:01 | |
| It's past his bedtime. | 03:20:04 | |
| For the record, that was from David Pierce. | 03:20:07 | |
| Make sure you get that. And then he asked a question about methodologies and, you know, whether we split or not in the school | 03:20:10 | |
| district colleges in the state of thing. The thing that's different is I've worked with the surplus warehouse in State Street for | 03:20:18 | |
| 18 years. For public group, we will need to be potentially building a bus garage and a administration building either two or | 03:20:26 | |
| three, you know, plus size. So the methodology would stay the same, but they would. | 03:20:33 | |
| Need to do bonding or something for those additional buildings. So taxes would certainly be come up without us on that and no one | 03:20:41 | |
| would help. That's what's so scary is the cloud over it. And then his third question, which was planning for the future. I, I | 03:20:49 | |
| agree with him planning for a City Hall. You know, the side of the 87,000 square foot one. I agree with definitely planning. I | 03:20:56 | |
| mean, I think my uncle's and father started to plan for the City Hall 15 years ago. | 03:21:03 | |
| It's just more of not stopping the plan, but just when is the time when you actually build that there's one of the say you don't | 03:21:11 | |
| stop, but. | 03:21:15 | |
| And then we already talked about the 24 hours. | 03:21:20 | |
| Agenda, My only request is we need to like even tonight the RDA slide or the change of government slides that JBUS or the City | 03:21:24 | |
| Hall design slides. It's just so helpful when we put together a city packet that not only is the notices and everything, but just | 03:21:31 | |
| these are the slides that are going to be presented because so many people will review before and come a better question. So I | 03:21:38 | |
| would like to have part of the policy and that's all I have. | 03:21:45 | |
| Um. | 03:21:54 | |
| We are adjourned. Thank you for coming tonight. | 03:21:56 | |
| Thanks guys, love you all. | 03:22:01 |