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Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at38pm.
The mayor pulled item1 for discussion.
The mayor pulled item1 for discussion.
Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at38pm.
Finance Director Kristie Bayles introduced the new treasurer, Zack Adams.
Finance Director Kristie Bayles introduced the new treasurer, Zack Adams.
Mr. Adams introduced himself to the council.
Mr. Adams introduced himself to the council.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAYOR’S APPOINTMENT OF ZACK ADAMS AS TREASURER AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAYOR’S APPOINTMENT OF ZACK ADAMS AS TREASURER AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
City Recorder Pamela Spencer swore in Zack Adams as Treasurer.      PRESENTATIONS/RECOGNITIONS/AWARDS/PROCLAMATIONS1.   DrinkingWaterWeekProclamation,2024-05 ProclamationdeclaringMay5toMay11,2024,asVineyardCityDrinkingWater Week
City Recorder Pamela Spencer swore in Zack Adams as Treasurer.             PRESENTATIONS/RECOGNITIONS/AWARDS/PROCLAMATIONS1.   DrinkingWaterWeekProclamation,2024-05 ProclamationdeclaringMay5toMay11,2024,asVineyardCityDrinkingWater Week
Mayor Fullmer presented the proclamation.         WORK SESSION1.   Formsof Government CityAttorneyJaymeBlakeslywillleadadiscussionaboutformsofgovernment.
Mayor Fullmer presented the proclamation.         WORK SESSION1.   Formsof Government CityAttorneyJaymeBlakeslywillleadadiscussionaboutformsofgovernment.
Mayor Fullmer presented the item and gave the time over to the City Attorney.
Mayor Fullmer presented the item and gave the time over to the City Attorney.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesly presented on changes in forms of government and the city attorney’s role in the process.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesly presented on changes in forms of government and the city attorney’s role in the process.
Mr. Blakesly covered the current organization of the city government.
Mr. Blakesly covered the current organization of the city government.
Explained the other options that were available and how they function as well as what he sees as the positives and negatives of each.
Explained the other options that were available and how they function as well as what he sees as the positives and negatives of each.
Mr. Blakesly covered the ways that any change can be initiated, either by a resolution adopted by the city council or by petition of the voters. Both of theseBoth options would need to occur at least days before the municipal or general election.
Mr. Blakesly covered the ways that any change can be initiated, either by a resolution adopted by the city council or by petition of the voters. Both options would need to occur at least days before the municipal or general election.
Mr. Blakesly explained further that the resulting ballot would need to describe the exact change being put forth to voters.  Any change would be on the November24 ballot but the officers for the new positions would be voted on in the municipal general election taking place in25 and those elected wouldn’t be sworn in until26.
Mr. Blakesly explained further that the resulting ballot would need to describe the exact change being put forth to voters.  Any change would be on the November24 ballot but the officers for the new positions would be voted on in the municipal general election taking place in25 and those elected wouldn’t be sworn in until26.
Mr. Blakesly concluded his presentation and asked if there were questionsfor.  questions.
Mr. Blakesly concluded his presentation and asked if there were questions.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted clarification on the two public hearings and study mentioned by Mr. Blakesly in his presentation. Specifically, if a study needed to be done if a change was being considered. Mr. Blakesly said it would be helpful but is not required by State code. Studies would be done after the change is already voted for as the council would work to reform existing ordinances to match the change in government.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted clarification on the two public hearings and study mentioned by Mr. Blakesly in his presentation. Specifically, if a study needed to be done if a change was being considered. Mr. Blakesly said it would be helpful but is not required by State code. Studies would be done after the change is already voted for as the council would work to reform existing ordinances to match the change in government.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the cost of putting it on the ballot. Ms. Spencer said it would be close to $18,000 and a discussion ensued about the cost.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the cost of putting it on the ballot. Ms. Spencer said it would be close to $18,000 and a discussion ensued about the cost.
Councilmember Sifuentes had questions about staggering the terms of current councilmembers if a change was made. Mr. Blakesly stated that State code required that one member would have a term ofyears. There was additional discussion regarding the differences in at-large versus district seats and how best to identify who would get theyear term.
Councilmember Sifuentes had questions about staggering the terms of current councilmembers if a change was made. Mr. Blakesly stated that State code required that one member would have a term ofyears. There was additional discussion regarding the differences in at-large versus district seats and how best to identify who would get theyear term.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted clarification about what Mr. Blakesly saw as conflict and wanted him to explain it further. There was a discussion between the two on the duties of a mayor and other general administrative functions in each prospective form of government.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted clarification about what Mr. Blakesly saw as conflict and wanted him to explain it further. There was a discussion between the two on the duties of a mayor and other general administrative functions in each prospective form of government.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted to clarify that this was a public hearing and if they were currently in a public comment period. Both Mayor Fullmer and Mr. Blakesly clarified that this was currently a work session. It was explained that there would be time for public hearings if the decision was made to move forward.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted to clarify that this was a public hearing and if they were currently in a public comment period. Both Mayor Fullmer and Mr. Blakesly clarified that this was currently a work session. It was explained that there would be time for public hearings if the decision was made to move forward.
Councilmember Holdaway asked Councilmember Sifuentes for her thoughts on the presentation.  Councilmember Sifuentes expressed that she doesn’t have interest in the “council-mayor” form and is worried about conflict that it may cause and that it’s not very common for a city our size. She did, however, express that she could see the city moving to amember council. She liked the idea of separating executive and legislative and felt it would make a more unifying person out of a mayor.
Councilmember Holdaway asked Councilmember Sifuentes for her thoughts on the presentation.  Councilmember Sifuentes expressed that she doesn’t have interest in the “council-mayor” form and is worried about conflict that it may cause and that it’s not very common for a city our size. She did, however, express that she could see the city moving to amember council. She liked the idea of separating executive and legislative and felt it would make a more unifying person out of a mayor.
Councilmember Sifuentes also felt it would be more beneficial to save the money that would be spent placing the question on the ballot and instead focus on finding consensus on current issues. Though she mentioned she does understand Councilmember Holdaway’s position.
Councilmember Sifuentes also felt it would be more beneficial to save the money that would be spent placing the question on the ballot and instead focus on finding consensus on current issues. Though she mentioned she does understand Councilmember Holdaway’s position.
Councilmember Holdaway felt that a government change is a wise evolution for a growing city
Councilmember Holdaway felt that a government change is a wise evolution for a growing city
Councilmember Holdaway motioned for a vote to study the issue further and that his preference be that it be set for May,24. Councilmember Sifuentes asked for clarification on the motion if it was for a specific study or if it was to enter a-day period that would include two public hearings.
Councilmember Holdaway motioned for a vote to study the issue further and that his preference be that it be set for May,24. Councilmember Sifuentes asked for clarification on the motion if it was for a specific study or if it was to enter a-day period that would include two public hearings.
Mr. Blakesly also commented on a future resolution and what exactly it would need to have in order to move forward with any change.
Mr. Blakesly explained that a resolution would not be needed tonight and that what was being planned was simply putting it on a later agenda as a further discussion, and that if the mayor agreed to put it on a future agenda that no resolution would be needed.
Mr. Blakesly explained that a resolution would not be needed tonight and that what was being planned was simply putting it on a later agenda as a further discussion, and that if the mayor agreed to put it on a future agenda that no resolution would be needed.
Mr. Blakesly also commented on a future resolution and what exactly it would need to have in order to move forward with any change.
Mayor Fullmer agreed to put it on a future agenda.
Mayor Fullmer agreed to put it on a future agenda.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO HAVE A RESOLUTION REGARDING THE CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT BE ADDED TO AN AGENDA COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.    2.   City Hall Building MorganBrimandJanetQuanwithNelsonPartnerswillpresentaspatialanalysis conducted by Nelson Partners of a new city hall building located in Vineyard Downtown.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO HAVE A RESOLUTION REGARDING THE CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT BE ADDED TO AN AGENDA COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.2.   City Hall Building MorganBrimandJanetQuanwithNelsonPartnerswillpresentaspatialanalysis conducted by Nelson Partners of a new city hall building located in Vineyard Downtown.
Community Development Director Morgan Brim and Janet Quan from Nelson Partners presented on the city hall spatial analysis.
Community Development Director Morgan Brim and Janet Quan from Nelson Partners presented on the city hall spatial analysis.
Councilmember Holdaway had questions about ownership and tenant arrangements. Mr. Brim explained the details had not been worked out but that the actual finances were currently being decided.
Councilmember Holdaway had questions about ownership and tenant arrangements. Mr. Brim explained the details had not been worked out but that the actual finances were currently being decided.
Councilmember Holdaway discussed the price in comparison to other cities. He cited personal analysis that he had conducted, looking for office space in the area and that he was able to find properties between $350,000-$360,000.
Councilmember Holdaway discussed the price in comparison to other cities. He cited personal analysis that he had conducted, looking for office space in the area and that he was able to find properties between $350,000-$360,000.
City Manager Eric Ellis made some clarifications and distinctions from this plan to other cities. Explained the cost of the building would be spread amongst other tenants to bring the cost down. Mr. Brim explained that what was currently being presented was conceptual and that further work needed to be done.
City Manager Eric Ellis made some clarifications and distinctions from this plan to other cities. Explained the cost of the building would be spread amongst other tenants to bring the cost down. Mr. Brim explained that what was currently being presented was conceptual and that further work needed to be done.
Councilmember Holdaway said he felt that a larger building like the one being presented would be, based on growth, a better plan for30 or40. A discussion ensued about the price of the building and the ways that other cities approach solutions to similar issues.
Councilmember Holdaway said he felt that a larger building like the one being presented would be, based on growth, a better plan for30 or40. A discussion ensued about the price of the building and the ways that other cities approach solutions to similar issues.
Councilmember Sifuentes had questions about cost and wanted more accurate numbers and wanted to have further discussions before they started looking for options outside the city.
Councilmember Sifuentes had questions about cost and wanted more accurate numbers and wanted to have further discussions before they started looking for options outside the city.
Councilmember Cameron expressed appreciation for the use of space for public use. She also expressed concern about costs and that it was important to her that the council is careful with the public’s money.
Councilmember Cameron expressed appreciation for the use of space for public use. She also expressed concern about costs and that it was important to her that the council is careful with the public’s money.
Councilmember Holdaway expressed concerns about the third tenant but he did agree with Councilmember Sifuentes that there needed to be significant planning and study.
Councilmember Holdaway expressed concerns about the third tenant, but he did agree with Councilmember Sifuentes that there needed to be significant planning and study.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to point out that sometimes building something earlier can save money in the long run compared to later when prices may be higher.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to point out that sometimes building something earlier can save money in the long run compared to later when prices may be higher.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted to know when this subject would come back for discussion. Mayor Fullmer said she wanted to let staff collect answers to questions raised tonight but that she would like to have it scheduled during budget discussions. Councilmember Holdaway asked that more in-depth cost projections be included in future discussions.         PUBLICCOMMENTS
Councilmember Holdaway wanted to know when this subject would come back for discussion. Mayor Fullmer said she wanted to let staff collect answers to questions raised tonight but that she would like to have it scheduled during budget discussions. Councilmember Holdaway asked that more in-depth cost projections be included in future discussions.         PUBLICCOMMENTS
Resident Daria Evans, living in The Villas subdivision, wanted to know what the land value was of the land that was being donated to the city. She also wanted to know if the current Mountainland Association of Governments building would be vacated and if so, could it be used to house the Public Works department. She wanted to know if the design of the building would go through a bidding process. She also wanted to thank Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour for the placement ofmph speed limit signs that were placed in her community.
Resident Daria Evans, living in The Villas subdivision, wanted to know what the land value was of the land that was being donated to the city. She also wanted to know if the current Mountainland Association of Governments building would be vacated and if so, could it be used to house the Public Works department. She wanted to know if the design of the building would go through a bidding process. She also wanted to thank Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour for the placement ofmph speed limit signs that were placed in her community.
Resident Kim Cornelius, living in The Villas subdivision, wanted clarification on the alternative forms of government that were presented.  He wished to express support for the five-member council with the mayor form of government. Mr. Blakesly clarified that what he was referring to was listed in statute as themember6-member council.
Resident Kim Cornelius, living in The Villas subdivision, wanted clarification on the alternative forms of government that were presented.  He wished to express support for the five-member council with the mayor form of government. Mr. Blakesly clarified that what he was referring to was listed in statute as themember council.
Resident Darlene Price, living in The Villas subdivision, expressed appreciation for the presentations. Commented on the forms of government and that it was her understanding that what Vineyard had currently was built for smaller towns and that she was concerned about the current level of conflict that existed with the current form and so she supported a change of government. She also wanted to express that she felt overwhelmed about the potential price that was presented regarding the new city hall building.
Resident Darlene Price, living in The Villas subdivision, expressed appreciation for the presentations. Commented on the forms of government and that it was her understanding that what Vineyard had currently was built for smaller towns and that she was concerned about the current level of conflict that existed with the current form and so she supported a change of government. She also wanted to express that she felt overwhelmed about the potential price that was presented regarding the new city hall building.
Resident Karen Cornelius, living in The Villas subdivision, shared her concerns about the cost of the city hall project and what she felt would be much higher future unforeseen costs. She also was concerned with how spending on that project would impact any future issues with a split with the Alpine School District. She also wanted to remind the council that she was still waiting for information about Municipal Code Amendment Ordinance23-32.
Resident Karen Cornelius, living in The Villas subdivision, shared her concerns about the cost of the city hall project and what she felt would be much higher future unforeseen costs. She also was concerned with how spending on that project would impact any future issues with a split with the Alpine School District. She also wanted to remind the council that she was still waiting for information about Municipal Code Amendment Ordinance23-32.
Resident Sherrie Kaye Miller, living on Holdaway Road, wanted to comment on the meeting’s decorum and that she was glad that tonight’s meeting displayed more respect for each other and the process and that there was better use of good communication skills. She expressed appreciation for the presentation on forms of government. She asked for increased transparency in the budget process and expressed that it would help build trust.
Resident Sherrie Kaye Miller, living on Holdaway Road, wanted to comment on the meeting’s decorum and that she was glad that tonight’s meeting displayed more respect for each other and the process and that there was better use of good communication skills. She expressed appreciation for the presentation on forms of government. She asked for increased transparency in the budget process and expressed that it would help build trust.
Resident David Pierce, living in the Cascade subdivision. had questions about financing the school district in the event of a split with the ASD and if those sources and means would stay the same or change and if so how. He also expressed what he felt was the importance of planning for the future and relying on analysis and projections that would give us the most likely future and making informed decisions based on those.
Resident David Pierce, living in the Cascade subdivision. had questions about financing the school district in the event of a split with the ASD and if those sources and means would stay the same or change and if so how. He also expressed what he felt was the importance of planning for the future and relying on analysis and projections that would give us the most likely future and making informed decisions based on those.
Resident Tim Heatonliving in the Sleepy Ridge subdivisionexpressed concerns about the time frame in which meeting agendas were provided to the public. He stated that other cities go to great lengths to provide their agendas much earlier and that making them public earlier would allow for better discourse among interested parties.
Resident Tim Heaton living in the Sleepy Ridge subdivision expressed concerns about the time frame in which meeting agendas were provided to the public. He stated that other cities go to great lengths to provide their agendas much earlier and that making them public earlier would allow for better discourse among interested parties.
Mayor Fullmer answered public comment ·       Design bid – Clarified $2 Million with Mr. Brim ·       City Hall - Clarified $50 million was not the proposed cost of the city hall ·       School District – Discussion tonight ·       Agenda Posting – Work sessions are utilized to help present ideas before they are brought before the council.
Mayor Fullmer answered public comment ·       Design bid – Clarified $2 Million with Mr. Brim ·       City Hall - Clarified $50 million was not the proposed cost of the city hall ·       School District – Discussion tonight ·       Agenda Posting – Work sessions are utilized to help present ideas before they are brought before the council.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated there had been internal discussions with staff on creating a policy where the agendas were made publicly available sooner than hours prior.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated there had been internal discussions with staff on creating a policy where the agendas were made publicly available sooner than hours prior.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated that she would like to make a motion to add discussion about a policy change on the agenda for a future work session. The mayor stated that there was a plan to discuss that and that it was already scheduled for the Julyth meeting but that she would support moving it up if she was able to find the time in earlier meetings.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated that she would like to make a motion to add discussion about a policy change on the agenda for a future work session. The mayor stated that there was a plan to discuss that and that it was already scheduled for the Julyth meeting but that she would support moving it up if she was able to find the time in earlier meetings.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for clarification on the time frame regarding discussions on policy, specifically the one mentioned by Councilmember Sifuentes asking for earlier agenda postings. He wanted to know if there was a procedural reason why the discussion for it wasn’t set to happen until Julyth.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for clarification on the time frame regarding discussions on policy, specifically the one mentioned by Councilmember Sifuentes asking for earlier agenda postings. He wanted to know if there was a procedural reason why the discussion for it wasn’t set to happen until Julyth.
Mr. Blakesly clarified why scheduling it out was important and encouraged further discussion on the subject before placing it on the agenda any sooner than it already was. The council and mayor discussed scheduling a work session earlier with Councilmember Holdaway wanting it moved to Maynd.
Mr. Blakesly clarified why scheduling it out was important and encouraged further discussion on the subject before placing it on the agenda any sooner than it already was. The council and mayor discussed scheduling a work session earlier with Councilmember Holdaway wanting it moved to Maynd.
Councilmember Holdaway motioned to have it on the Maynd agenda.
Councilmember Holdaway motioned to have it on the Maynd agenda.
Mr. Ellis expressed concern over posting agendas earlier, that it would reduce the amount of time staff had to prepare answers to questions from previous council meetings and that the limited amount of time may lead to lower quality reporting from staff.
Mr. Ellis expressed concern over posting agendas earlier, that it would reduce the amount of time staff had to prepare answers to questions from previous council meetings and that the limited amount of time may lead to lower quality reporting from staff.
Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concern over what she saw as conflicting requests from the council that reports both be done with enough time for public input but also be done as soon as possible. With that in mind she said she would not be seconding the motion.
Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concern over what she saw as conflicting requests from the council that reports both be done with enough time for public input but also be done as soon as possible. With that in mind she said she would not be seconding the motion.
Councilmember Cameron expressed appreciation for where she felt Councilmember Holdaway was coming from in his motion. She also felt that more advance notice would be beneficial, especially during the budget discussions.
Councilmember Cameron expressed appreciation for where she felt Councilmember Holdaway was coming from in his motion. She also felt that more advance notice would be beneficial, especially during the budget discussions.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION REGARDING POLICIES RELATED TO THE POSTING OF MEETING AGENDAS ADDED TO THE AGENDA OF THE MAYND CITY COUNCIL MEETING.  COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION.   Mayor Fullmer explained the budget process.   MAYOR FULLMER, AND COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES VOTED NO. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION FAILED WITH ONE ABSENT.          MAYORANDCOUNCILMEMBERS'REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS          STAFF,COMMISSION, ANDCOMMITTEE REPORTS
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION REGARDING POLICIES RELATED TO THE POSTING OF MEETING AGENDAS ADDED TO THE AGENDA OF THE MAYND CITY COUNCIL MEETING.  COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION.   Mayor Fullmer explained the budget process.   MAYOR FULLMER, AND COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES VOTED NO. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION FAILED WITH ONE ABSENT.          MAYORANDCOUNCILMEMBERS'REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS          STAFF,COMMISSION, ANDCOMMITTEE REPORTS
Mayor Fullmer moved agenda itemsandto later in the meeting so as to make additional time for consent items and public hearings.          CONSENT ITEMS  1.   Approvalof the April,24, City Council MeetingMinutes2.   ApprovalofanInterlocalagreementwithVineyardCity,SalemCity,OremCity, and Lindon City, allowing each city to conduct inspections in the other cities. (Resolution24-12)3.   Withdrawal by Owner of Application for Assessment under the Farmland AssessmentActforthe11acreparcel(formerlytheRobinsProperty)(Resolution24-13)
Mayor Fullmer moved agenda itemsandto later in the meeting so as to make additional time for consent items and public hearings.          CONSENT ITEMS1.   Approvalof the April,24, City Council MeetingMinutes2.   ApprovalofanInterlocalagreementwithVineyardCity,SalemCity,OremCity, and Lindon City, allowing each city to conduct inspections in the other cities. (Resolution24-12)3.   Withdrawal by Owner of Application for Assessment under the Farmland AssessmentActforthe11acreparcel(formerlytheRobinsProperty)(Resolution24-13)
Councilmember Holdaway asked for a brief explanation of item2
Councilmember Holdaway asked for a brief explanation of item2.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS1 AND3. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS1 AND3. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Chief Building Official Chris Johnson covered2 and explained the interlocal agreement.
Chief Building Official Chris Johnson covered2 and explained the interlocal agreement.
Councilmember Holdaway restated that his understanding of the Interlocal Agreement was that essentially other cities would help each other “play catch up”. Mr. Blakesly and Mr. Johnson explained the reasoning behind the ILA and Councilmember Holdaway stated that he now had a better understanding.
Councilmember Holdaway restated that his understanding of the Interlocal Agreement was that essentially other cities would help each other “play catch up”. Mr. Blakesly and Mr. Johnson explained the reasoning behind the ILA and Councilmember Holdaway stated that he now had a better understanding.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM7.2 AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.        APPOINTMENTS1.   Treasurer WiththeadviceandconsentoftheCityCouncil,MayorFullmerwillappointZackary Adams as the new Treasurer.             BUSINESSITEMS8.         . 1.   PUBLICHEARING–TransferfromEnterpriseFundstoInternalServicesFund CityManagerEricElliswillpresentrecommendationstotransferenterprisefundsto an internal service fund to pay for services such as facilities, fleet, and information systems. The City Council will hear public comment regarding these recommended transfers. No action will be taken.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM7.2 AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.         APPOINTMENTS1.   Treasurer WiththeadviceandconsentoftheCityCouncil,MayorFullmerwillappointZackary Adams as the new Treasurer.           BUSINESSITEMS1.   PUBLICHEARING–TransferfromEnterpriseFundstoInternalServicesFund CityManagerEricElliswillpresentrecommendationstotransferenterprisefundsto an internal service fund to pay for services such as facilities, fleet, and information systems. The City Council will hear public comment regarding these recommended transfers. No action will be taken.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ENTER A PUBLIC HEARING AT43 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ENTER A PUBLIC HEARING AT43 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Mr. Ellis presented on the transfer from enterprise funds to Internal Services Funds.
Mr. Ellis presented on the transfer from enterprise funds to Internal Services Funds.
Ms. Cornelius asked to see more itemized breakdowns of the funds.
Ms. Cornelius asked to see more itemized breakdowns of the funds.
Mr. Ellis provided a line-item breakdown as it was provided in the agenda packet made available to the public.
Mr. Ellis provided a line-item breakdown as it was provided in the agenda packet made available to the public.
Ms. Cornelius asked for further breakdown, specifically where the funds were going to as opposed to the details of where the funds were coming out of. Mr. Ellis explained that the breakdown she was looking for would be covered later in the tentative budget discussion.
Ms. Cornelius asked for further breakdown, specifically where the funds were going to as opposed to the details of where the funds were coming out of. Mr. Ellis explained that the breakdown she was looking for would be covered later in the tentative budget discussion.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for a more granular breakdown of where the funds would be distributed. He wanted to know what action could be taken to amend policy in the future so that this was possible. There was a discussion about policies that dictate the structure of the funds transfer.  Mr. Blakesly explained that the way they were currently presented was not atypical from how other cities, that it was a standard form of municipal accounting.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for a more granular breakdown of where the funds would be distributed. He wanted to know what action could be taken to amend policy in the future so that this was possible. There was a discussion about policies that dictate the structure of the funds transfer.  Mr. Blakesly explained that the way they were currently presented was not atypical from how other cities, that it was a standard form of municipal accounting.
Mayor Fullmer offered to add it to the discussions already scheduled for Maynd.
Mayor Fullmer offered to add it to the discussions already scheduled for Maynd.
Resident Terry Ewing, living in The Villas subdivision, had questions on what happened to excess funds transferred to the internal services fund. Ms. Bayles explained the nature of the fund.
Resident Terry Ewing, living in The Villas subdivision, had questions on what happened to excess funds transferred to the internal services fund. Ms. Bayles explained the nature of the fund.
Mr. Heaton asked what was stopping the city from publicly sharing a more detailed breakdown. Ms. Bayles gave an overview of what was on the transparency website. There was a discussion about providing more than what statute required.
Mr. Heaton asked what was stopping the city from publicly sharing a more detailed breakdown. Ms. Bayles gave an overview of what was on the transparency website. There was a discussion about providing more than what statute required.
Councilmember Holdaway clarified that what was being asked was what he was envisioning in future budget presentations.
Councilmember Holdaway clarified that what was being asked was what he was envisioning in future budget presentations.
Councilmember Sifuentes was concerned about creating unnecessary work and overutilizing staff time. It was agreed that further discussion would be moved the next meeting on Maynd.
Councilmember Sifuentes was concerned about creating unnecessary work and overutilizing staff time. It was agreed that further discussion would be moved the next meeting on Maynd.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING at58 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.  2.   Discussion and Action - Proposed Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 BudgetFinance Director Kristie Bayles will present the Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 Budget.ThemayorandCityCouncilwillacttoadopt(ordeny)theproposedtentative budget and set a public hearing for May,24.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING at58 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.  2.   Discussion and Action - Proposed Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 BudgetFinance Director Kristie Bayles will present the Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 Budget.ThemayorandCityCouncilwillacttoadopt(ordeny)theproposedtentative budget and set a public hearing for May,24.
Ms. Bayles presented the budget calendar and then moved to presenting the Proposed Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 Budget.
Ms. Bayles presented the budget calendar and then moved to presenting the Proposed Tentative Fiscal Year24-2025 Budget.
Councilmember Holdaway spoke in support of a more granular breakdown in the proposed budget to help facilitate public input.
Councilmember Holdaway spoke in support of a more granular breakdown in the proposed budget to help facilitate public input.
Ms. Bayles explained that if what was being presented tonight was made public it would vastly differ from the finalized budget at the end of June and therefore may be of little benefit to the public.
Ms. Bayles explained that if what was being presented tonight was made public it would vastly differ from the finalized budget at the end of June and therefore may be of little benefit to the public.
Ms. Bayles continued her presentation and covered the Internal Service Fund.
Ms. Bayles continued her presentation and covered the Internal Service Fund.
Councilmember Holdaway expressed concern with generalization and wanted to know if the final budget would include a deeper breakdown or if it would still be high level. A discussion ensued.
Councilmember Holdaway expressed concern with generalization and wanted to know if the final budget would include a deeper breakdown or if it would still be high level. A discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ADOPT THE TENTATIVE FISCAL YEAR24-2025 BUDGET AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, AND CAMERON VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR TO ONE WITH ONE ABSENT.  3.   DiscussionandAction-AlpineSchoolDistrictRedistrictingInterlocalAgreement(Resolution24-14) School redistricting conversations are taking place and after the joint special session on7/2024, a proposal to split Alpine School District into two or more smaller districtsisbeingdiscussed.Themayorwillleadadiscussionaboutschoolredistricting asaresultofthoseconversations.VineyardCityCouncilmayvotetoallowtheMayormayor to enter into an interlocal agreement specific to school redistricting with certain municipalities.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ADOPT THE TENTATIVE FISCAL YEAR24-2025 BUDGET AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, AND CAMERON VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR TO ONE WITH ONE ABSENT.  3.   DiscussionandAction-AlpineSchoolDistrictRedistrictingInterlocalAgreement(Resolution24-14) School redistricting conversations are taking place and after the joint special session on7/2024, a proposal to split Alpine School District into two or more smaller districtsisbeingdiscussed.Themayorwillleadadiscussionaboutschoolredistricting asaresultofthoseconversations.VineyardCityCouncilmayvotetoallowthemayor to enter into an interlocal agreement specific to school redistricting with certain municipalities.
Councilmember Sifuentes gave a review of the joint special session that occurred on Mayh regarding the Alpine School District split and a potential interlocal agreement.
Councilmember Sifuentes gave a review of the joint special session that occurred on Mayh regarding the Alpine School District split and a potential interlocal agreement.
Mayor Fullmer asked for clarification on scheduling a special meeting in the event an interlocal agreement needed to be voted on.
Mayor Fullmer asked for clarification on scheduling a special meeting in the event an interlocal agreement needed to be voted on.
Councilmember Cameron commented that she wanted to see any information gathered released to the public as quickly as possible. Through discussion there was an idea of tentative scheduling of a hearing. Mayor Fullmer suggested they use of a survey to get a better understanding of public opinion.
Councilmember Cameron commented that she wanted to see any information gathered released to the public as quickly as possible. Through discussion there was an idea of tentative scheduling of a hearing. Mayor Fullmer suggested the use of a survey to get a better understanding of public opinion.
Councilmember Holdaway commented on the overall state of the split and his feelings on the events that had led to the current discussions happening within the district.
Councilmember Holdaway commented on the overall state of the split and his feelings on the events that had led to the current discussions happening within the district.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to state for the record “I don’t agree with Pleasant Grove’s desire to get involved with Lehi’s central proposal,proposal; I don’t condemn them for it either. I would choose not to do that, just because I understand Lehi’s desire to split, and I respect that they have their reasons and I respect that whatever we decide we have our reasons. I do understand that Pleasant Grove is deeply affected by all of this.”
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to state for the record “I don’t agree with Pleasant Grove’s desire to get involved with Lehi’s central proposal; I don’t condemn them for it either. I would choose not to do that, just because I understand Lehi’s desire to split, and I respect that they have their reasons and I respect that whatever we decide we have our reasons. I do understand that Pleasant Grove is deeply affected by all of this.”
Mayor Fullmer continued the discussion. The councilmembers talked about their takeaways from the special session and their desires to not lock the city into an agreement unless necessary. They also discussed any motions that could be made and when any meetings about that would take place.
Mayor Fullmer continued the discussion. The councilmembers talked about their takeaways from the special session and their desires not to lock the city into an agreement unless necessary. They also discussed any motions that could be made and when any meetings about that would take place.
Mr. Ellis wanted the council to take care that in the event they do make any motions that they would include a deadline giving hours to allow for it to be drafted in time.
Mr. Ellis wanted the council to take care that in the event they do make any motions that they would include a deadline giving hours to allow for it to be drafted in time.
Ms. Cornelius stated that any meeting to discuss entering intoentering an interlocal agreement should start later thanm, as it may be difficult for parents to attend.
Ms. Cornelius stated that any meeting to discuss entering an interlocal agreement should start later thanm, as it may be difficult for parents to attend.
Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concerns over entering intoentering an interlocal agreement, that she believed ASD board members were qualified to make the decision that would work best for the district.
Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concerns over entering an interlocal agreement, that she believed ASD board members were qualified to make the decision that would work best for the district.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO POTENTIALLY HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION ON MAYTH ATM TO DISCUSS ENTERING INTO AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT. ONLY IN THE EVENT THAT OTHER CITIES ENTER INTO INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS AND THEY HAVE INVITED VINEYARD TO ENTER INTO AS WELL. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON, AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO POTENTIALLY HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION ON MAYTH ATM TO DISCUSS ENTERING INTO AN INTERLOCAL AGREEMENT. ONLY IN THE EVENT THAT OTHER CITIES ENTER INTO INTERLOCAL AGREEMENTS AND THEY HAVE INVITED VINEYARD TO ENTER INTO AS WELL. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS SIFUENTES, CAMERON, AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN WAS EXCUSED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE ABSENT.
Councilmember Holdaway asked about opportunities to discuss certain budget items, Mayor Fullmer offered to add him to the schedules for those discussions.           CLOSEDSESSION There was no closed session. .     ADJOURNMENT Mayor Fullmer adjourned at:00 PM.     MINUTES APPROVED ON:   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:                        TONY LARA, DEPUTY CITY RECORDER
Councilmember Holdaway asked about opportunities to discuss certain budget items, Mayor Fullmer offered to add him to the schedules for those discussions.   .     CLOSEDSESSION There was no closed session.   .     ADJOURNMENT Mayor Fullmer adjourned at:00 PM.     MINUTES APPROVED ON: May,24   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:                      TONY LARA, DEPUTY CITY RECORDER
Yeah, we're good. 00:00:00
All right, we're rolling. We'll go ahead and start our Vineyard City Council meeting. It's Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 and the time 00:00:05
is 638. 00:00:10
And we will. We're going to pull something up from Item 8. It's one of our appointments. 00:00:15
Our finance department recently underwent an interview process for our new treasurer and the City Council was all able to meet 00:00:24
with the interview the interviewee, Zachary Adams and we had a great time meeting him and I I want to give some time for our. 00:00:34
Finance director to come and introduce him before we make that appointment tonight. Thank you, mayor. We had a lot of great 00:00:44
candidates that put in for this position and it took us weeks to review them and meet with the different candidates. As the mayor 00:00:52
mentioned, HR and Eric, all the council members myself were able to interview all of the candidates and to decide on the best 00:00:59
candidate for us. Zach Adams comes from three years at the State Tax Commission. 00:01:07
And so we are really excited to have him here. I don't know if he wants to come introduce himself briefly, but like I said, we're 00:01:15
excited to present him as our a recommendation for treasurer. Thank you. I felt really great about meeting Zach. I'm sorry to put 00:01:22
you on the spot. You got invited up so. 00:01:28
Come on up though, we're excited for this introduction. 00:01:36
Nice to meet y'all, I'm Zach Adams. I'm from American Fork. 00:01:40
I started my professional career with KPMG 1A Big Four, worked there for two years and did personal and business taxes for almost 00:01:45
a year. And then I've been at the State Tax Commission for three years as a sales tax examiner, going business to business, 00:01:53
meeting everybody and finding out how our community and intertwines and how everybody, how everybody lives. So I was very excited 00:02:01
to hear back on the second and third interviews and I hope I can be a good addition to the team here so. 00:02:08
Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. 00:02:16
Well, like I was saying, and thank you for taking the time to come up. I have snuck back there and said, do you want to say any 00:02:18
words? And but I convinced Chrissy right before this that I thought it was a good idea. So well done. Well done everybody. Anyway, 00:02:24
we're very excited that you're here. Council, do you have any questions? Otherwise, I just would love some support and a motion 00:02:30
for this appointment. 00:02:36
I move to approve the Mayor's appointment of Zachary Adams as Treasurer as presented. 00:02:44
1st, I'm already second by Sarah. Any discussion? 00:02:49
All right. Seeing as there's none, I just need an approval. All in favor, aye? 00:02:54
OK, and Andrew is excused. Thank you so much. And because you're here, Andrew even said a few words. We're going to have you come 00:03:02
up and we'll swear you in. 00:03:06
I. 00:03:22
Tyrone Adams having been appointed district, Have you been appointed as the Treasurer? Solemnly swear, Do solemnly swear that I 00:03:29
will support, obey, and defend. That I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of 00:03:36
the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Utah, and the Constitution of the State of Utah. And then I will discharge 00:03:42
the duties of my office, and then I will discharge the duties of my office with the with fidelity. 00:03:48
Congratulations, you're welcome. 00:03:55
Welcome to the team. 00:04:02
All right, we will return back to the proclamation for declaring that May 5th, May 11th is in 2024 as Vineyard City Drinking Water 00:04:04
Week, and I will be signing that proclamation and they'll be posted for you to read. We'll move into our work session and we're 00:04:11
going to start out by having a discussion on forms of government and our City Attorney, Jamie Blakesley will lead us in that 00:04:18
discussion. 00:04:24
Thank you, Mayor. 00:04:32
A few different council members asked to have a discussion on forms of government and what the options are that are available to 00:04:35
the city. 00:04:39
If it wishes to change its form of government and if it decides to do it, what process would it follow to do it? And what are the 00:04:44
differences and between the different options? I want to give just a little bit of a preamble about my role in this kind of a 00:04:51
process. And this is information a little bit about the city attorney. Generally I, I get asked from time to time. Well, you 00:04:59
represent me. I'm a city official, just not engineered, but just in general. 00:05:07
And my answer to that always is no. 00:05:15
My role as a city attorney as I represent the entity. 00:05:18
And so I represent the city and I take direction from the council as a whole. 00:05:21
Because the council controls the legislative, administrative and executive functions within the city, The mayor then is the chief 00:05:28
executive and I will provide her advice in her role in that capacity. And various council members have roles within the council 00:05:35
and I will advise them. And the city manager and staff have roles within city government and I will advise them. But it's not my 00:05:43
job to represent anyone person as an individual. 00:05:50
Or anyone office as an individual. 00:05:58
And so I've taken an attempt in preparing this presentation to be neutral as to. 00:06:01
Any of the people that might be involved or affected by this kind of a choice and to take the role seriously that I represent the 00:06:07
city as an entity. And in some ways that means in representing the entity, I represent the citizens that live within the city and 00:06:14
I care for what occurs within vineyards when it be done well. 00:06:21
A lawyer's role is a little bit interesting because when the council is making decisions or the voters are making decisions, my 00:06:29
job is to provide the best advice I possibly can. And that includes advice on what is the law, but it also includes advice on 00:06:37
based on my experience and the risks and the details in a situation, what are the ways it can go wrong or go sideways or be 00:06:44
difficult. 00:06:51
And I'll provide my best advice. 00:06:59
And then always try to recognize that the decision is not mine to make, and once I provide that advice, I have to let go of it. 00:07:02
And once a decision is made, my function shifts a little bit from advising on what the decision should be to supporting the 00:07:11
decision that's made and helping it to be successful and effective. And I have practiced a lot over the years in that way. And 00:07:18
that's the approach that I've taken to this. The other thing I need to mention, just as preamble, is that a lot of the information 00:07:26
PowerPoints don't provide a place for footnotes. 00:07:33
And I, it's important to cite your sources as a lawyer. And so most of the historical information that I'm going to talk about is 00:07:41
from the Treatise on Local Government Law written by Roger Camp. It's called Forms of Local Government. It has a lot of academic 00:07:48
information, historical information and legal information that I've drawn from in putting this presentation together. And so when 00:07:55
I cite facts about historically how forms of government have been formed, succeeded, failed. 00:08:03
All of that it's taken from that reference. They're not my own ideas. So let me jump into the presentation the. 00:08:11
A big decision like this I feel like you can't make unless you know where you are and in in to know where you are, you need to 00:08:18
know where you came from. And then you can chart a course and figure out where you're going. And so I'm going to talk a little bit 00:08:24
about the histories of city government and then I'll talk about where we are as a city, and then I'll talk about the options going 00:08:30
forward. 00:08:36
And for the history of city government, United States government is based on the English common law. And so a lot of our 00:08:43
structures, even city government structures, you can track all the way back to. 00:08:49
Old England where you had boroughs and you had cities and they were forms of government that were self-sufficient and they began 00:08:55
really with direct democracy. So you had every citizen had a vote that transitioned eventually to where you had a representative 00:09:04
democracy of a sort where instead of every citizen they would elect somebody. 00:09:12
Cities in the colonial revolutionary era and before. 00:09:21
In England and when there were colonies, they didn't provide services like cities do today. They regulated industry and they 00:09:26
regulated the natural resources that the cities would draw upon to support themselves. 00:09:33
They largely had unicameral councils. It's a fancy legal word for one legislative body. They didn't have a house and a Senate, so 00:09:42
to speak. They just had one big body that was in charge of what occurred in the city. The body was elected, but not everybody 00:09:50
voted. You know, today we enjoy elections where anybody over the age of 18, regardless of gender, regardless of property, 00:09:57
regardless of station or position or education, gets a vote. 00:10:05
In their system, it wasn't that way. They were elected by Freeman, and then once somebody was elected, the vacancies on the 00:10:12
councils were filled by the remaining members. 00:10:17
And they served for life so much more like what we think of with judges where once they're appointed, they're they're there 00:10:23
forever. 00:10:27
But the other interesting thing is once you've created that, legislate that council. 00:10:31
It repopulated itself without going back to the citizens that it served. 00:10:37
So this is a really detailed slide that I'm not going to read, but when we talk about direct democracy, we often think of that as 00:10:42
the purest form of democracy. 00:10:47
Voters get a say. It has some history. We have examples of it working, but it mostly works only in small communities. And that's 00:10:53
because you you can't do long range planning. It's hard to educate all the citizens adequately. It's it's a better system if you 00:11:00
have individuals that are. 00:11:06
That set apart their time, their effort to represent, educate on things and to be able to make decisions a little bit quicker. 00:11:13
And they had real attendance issues in their councils. All of these slides will be public after this, and anybody who would like a 00:11:22
copy of the presentation can get it. 00:11:26
Then the United States becomes a country, right? We revolt from England. We form our own entity. If you think at the time, there's 00:11:33
a real aversion to having kings and councils and and different. 00:11:40
Entities in charge and you have AUS constitution that's established that has a bicameral legislation. We have a Senate and the 00:11:49
House cities begin to mimic this. 00:11:54
States assume control. States charter cities and many cities decide, just like the federal government, we're going to have two 00:12:01
legislative bodies. They have one. 00:12:06
Body that's an upper house. The upper house is elected at large and then they have a lower house that was elected by wards or 00:12:13
districts, and then within the houses or the wards the mayor is selected. 00:12:20
By them. 00:12:27
The some examples out of Boston, you have a directly. You then transition to a directly elected mayor instead of a mayor that's 00:12:30
chosen by these different organizations. The dual council role, not surprisingly, in city government, doesn't function very well. 00:12:37
It's really burdensome. It's cumbersome. Where you have the people elected by wards and districts, you get a lot of infighting. 00:12:44
I'm not going to give something to your neighborhood unless you give something to mine. 00:12:52
Your neighborhoods at that time are mostly ethnic enclaves, and so it made for a lot of fighting among different groups. And then 00:12:59
the control at the upper house tended to be to have a lot of graft, a lot of them giving contracts and services and things like 00:13:06
that to their friends and associates and not to others. 00:13:13
This is what we often call a weak mayor system. 00:13:22
That if the council has the control, the mayor's chosen largely by the council again, it you've lacked strong leadership. That 00:13:27
vacuum often leads to machine politics, things of that sort that don't function well. 00:13:35
In the 1820s, from 1820 to 1900, you start seeing a change more toward a mayor council, a Commission form of government with a 00:13:43
strong mayor, a strong mayor. 00:13:49
Cities at this point in time start transitioning where they provide more services and so it's less about allocation of resources 00:13:55
and and begins to be about how do you provide municipal services. 00:14:01
In Brooklyn, as an example, in the late 1800s, you begin to have big construction projects. This is a picture of the Brooklyn 00:14:08
Bridge they're building that. They begin building that in about 1880. 00:14:14
And you need a mayor that can manage and govern a large infrastructure project. And so you begin in cities like this to be to see 00:14:21
a little bit stronger role in an executive so that cities can carry out those kinds of public works. 00:14:29
With a directly elected mayor, where you see these types of characteristics, that this is what historically is called a strong 00:14:38
mayor government. You have a strong leadership with centralized responsibility. You can form policy, create big projects, 00:14:45
implement things. But the disadvantages are that if you have too much responsibility in one person, it's difficult to check their 00:14:52
activities and know what they're doing. 00:15:00
The mayor also may not be a professional administrator and so you see with some mayors that functions well and with other mayors 00:15:08
it doesn't function well. 00:15:12
So in Galveston in 1900, a hurricane hits. This is a picture of that image. And they're the first city to transition from a mayor. 00:15:17
Council form of government to a Commission form of government. And so they have essentially a council that's about a half dozen 00:15:28
people, each individual. 00:15:32
Each individual, each person on that council is assigned an area of responsibility within the city and they're given all the reins 00:15:38
to be able to carry out that function. So you would have one council member and you would you would say you're the council member 00:15:43
over public works. 00:15:47
And you're the one over planning and you're the one over transportation. And within that realm, they function almost by Fiat and 00:15:53
are able to carry out their obligations and their duties. 00:15:59
The this can work in emergency situations. It can work because you make fast decisions if you're the only one responsible for that 00:16:05
duty. It's a really simple organizational structure, but there's no coordination or cooperation. 00:16:13
And there's a problem when you have the legislative and the policy functions held only by one party or one person. 00:16:21
And you don't have anyone person you can point to to be responsible for. 00:16:28
The overall administration of the. 00:16:33
Of the government. 00:16:35
The other difficulty they ran into is if you're reelecting or electing somebody that has a certain area of responsibility, it's 00:16:36
hard to find another person with that same expertise. 00:16:42
So from 1900 to 1920, you begin seeing a lot of cities tinker with different options. They they start separating politics from 00:16:49
administration. And so you begin seeing council manager and you'll have a City Council and they'll hire a professional manager to 00:16:55
handle the administrative and sometimes the executive functions of the city. And some of the things on the right hand side that 00:17:02
you begin to see is stronger, stronger executives, different size councils. You start seeing a mix of at large and by water 00:17:09
district. 00:17:15
Appointments and you begin seeing a lot more nonpartisan elections than what had existed prior. 00:17:23
The first city to do a council The first notable city to do a council manager form of government was Staunton, VA. 00:17:30
So there are some advantages to this. You begin to introduce professional training and acumen into how the city government 00:17:37
functions and performs. The council retains control, but you can run a city a little bit more like you would run a business and 00:17:44
and have in a council manager. It would function a lot more like a board of directors and ACEO. 00:17:51
But what you have with this is the CEO lacks any political acumen or political directive because they're not elected. It's the 00:17:59
council that's elected. And you can't have managers that are strangers to the city or looking after their own career instead of 00:18:07
the interests of the the city as a whole. And so from 1920 to 1960, you begin seeing mayors come back into the equation and you 00:18:14
have a mayor council form of government with the chief administrator officer. You'll see this begins looking more more like what 00:18:22
you see in Utah City. 00:18:30
As you get to this point in time after World War Two, you have huge economic booms or growth, you have the baby boom and you 00:18:38
suddenly need massive development of transportation to support that growth and all of those individuals. And so in San Francisco 00:18:44
in 1931, you see them introduce a form of government that's a mayor council form of government, and they hire a chief 00:18:50
administrative officer. 00:18:57
The mayor and the council set the agenda. The mayor is the political leader and the executive in the city. The chief 00:19:04
administrative officer carries out the administrative functions of the city. 00:19:08
From. 00:19:15
And so from 1960 to 1980, you begin seeing a lot of different variations in how this occurs. You also begin having a national 00:19:16
civic league that begins establishing model city charters that cities can pick up and borrow from to figure out how to go about 00:19:23
doing their things. And you can see on the bottom right that the percentage of cities that go to a mayor council with the Cao 00:19:31
increase dramatically. 00:19:38
So we now find ourselves in an era of hybridization, and you see a lot of different varieties of city governments throughout the 00:19:46
country. When you hear people talk about strong mayor, weak mayor, usually what they're talking about is executive authority with 00:19:53
the mayor that's elected directly. Being a strong mayor or a weak mayor is that the City Council would appoint the mayor, and the 00:20:01
mayor performs largely administrative functions, not executive or council functions. 00:20:08
So I've been here, finds itself in a bit of a hybrid place and I'll talk a little bit about the options under state government, 00:20:17
but what you'll see is. 00:20:22
That states charter cities, and it used to be that you get a charter, an actual charter document that would establish what the 00:20:28
city is, what its form of government is. 00:20:32
The way Utah does it, and the way most states now do it, is that they will charter by legislation. 00:20:38
And so we have legislation that sets out the options for municipal governments in Utah. There are three choices. I'll get into 00:20:44
them in a few minutes. But the form of government that Vineyard currently has is one of those three choices and it's called the 00:20:50
five member council form of government. 00:20:56
The mayor is elected directly she chairs the council. She votes as a voting member of the council on all matters before the 00:21:02
council. 00:21:06
She is the CEO to whom all employees report. She appoints the officers, the city manager and the department heads. 00:21:12
This is done with advice and consent of the council. So it's not the appointment right is the mayor's. The council has a role in 00:21:20
voting up or down the mayor's appointments or removals. 00:21:27
And the Council has both legislative, administrative and. 00:21:34
Functions in both of those areas, they pass ordinances, they can remove or delegate powers from the mayor. There are certain 00:21:43
categories of things that cannot be removed from the mayor, but other than those, other than that small group of things that are 00:21:49
listed, which are legislative or judicial powers. 00:21:54
Ceremonial functions, chair of the council or any ex officio positions. Ex officio means positions that come by virtue of her 00:22:01
position as mayor. So an example on that is the Mountain Land Association of Governments has a board that's comprised entirely of 00:22:08
mayors from the cities that are within its service area. And so that type of thing would be an ex officio position. Whoever's in 00:22:16
the mayor's seat would always be vineyards representative on that board. 00:22:23
The council appropriates funds that sets the budget, the council supervises the performance of the executive and the 00:22:32
administrative duties, and the council appoints and removes the city manager and manages the city manager's performance. 00:22:39
So looking ahead. 00:22:48
If Vineyard, for whatever reason, we're not happy with the five member council form of government, it has two other options it can 00:22:50
choose from. 00:22:55
Here are the three options that you have. We currently are the five member council. You could also choose the mayor council form 00:23:01
of government. This looks a lot like the federal government you have. 00:23:07
A City Council that only legislates. 00:23:13
And you have a mayor that is both the executive and the administrative officer. 00:23:16
A president of the city, so to speak. 00:23:22
And there is a distinct separation between the functions of the City Council and the functions of the mayor. They don't overlap, 00:23:24
and there are some things in state law that prohibit the council from interfering with the mayor's business and vice versa. 00:23:33
The six member council looks almost exactly like the five member council with one key distinction, and that's that the mayor 00:23:43
chairs the council but doesn't vote on most issues. 00:23:49
The mayor will vote to break a tie, the mayor will vote on the appointment of the city manager, and the mayor will vote on any 00:23:56
ordinance change that affects the powers and duties of the mayor or the city manager. And other than those items, the. 00:24:05
Mayor would not be a voting member of the council. They would run the meeting, have a voice, help set the agenda, but largely 00:24:14
function as the chief executive officer. But the split of duties and the interaction between the mayor and the council is. 00:24:21
Really, in all significant respects, the same for A5 and six member council form of government. They look really similar. They 00:24:30
appear similar in most meetings. You really can't tell the difference until it comes time to vote and you realize, oh, the mayor 00:24:36
didn't cast a vote, they just called for it. 00:24:42
So a few slides based on the advantages and disadvantages of the three Utah forms of government and. 00:24:50
On the Mayor Council you have a clear separation of powers, you have clear checks and balances, you have elected representation. 00:24:58
Just as you doing off, you have elected representation in all of the Utah forms there. There really isn't a form available under 00:25:06
Utah law that doesn't have some checks and balances in place and that doesn't have you as citizens represented by an elected 00:25:12
council and an elected mayor. 00:25:18
On the mayor Council, I tend to think of it as a recipe for constant conflict you will see in mayor Council because there's bright 00:25:26
line separation between legislative and executive and administrative roles. 00:25:33
That. 00:25:41
Cities tend to get things done with quite a bit of conflict and quite a bit of tension. The mayor may or may not be a professional 00:25:42
administrator, and so you will get some mayors that are better at that job than others. 00:25:48
There is no separation between the political and administrative leadership. And so you get a mayor who's administering city 00:25:55
services often with a political bent to the way they go about doing that. And then one big disadvantage is you do have to 00:26:02
duplicate some of your staff. So in council mayor forms of government, there is an executive budget and there is a legislative 00:26:10
budget. And so both group, the mayor and the council will often have. 00:26:17
Legislative officer, they both often will have a clerk or an administrative function. They both often will have their legal 00:26:25
counsel and you may also see an administrator on both sides of that Ledger. And so if you pull apart the budget for council, 00:26:32
mayor, forms of government, they're spending a higher ratio of their tax revenues on. 00:26:40
Administrative and personnel expenses than the other two forms. 00:26:48
A6 member council form of government has it this some of the same advantages you have political responsiveness and representation. 00:26:54
You elect your mayor, you elect your council members. 00:26:59
It does allow for your administrative functions to be depoliticized. So you have a city manager typically that will carry out the 00:27:06
administrative functions of the city. And so if you have questions about water, sewer, roads, waste, core city services, you can 00:27:14
often go to the administrator. You don't have to go and get a political solution to those kinds of issues. 00:27:22
It tends, and this is in my experience and observation toward cooperation over conflict. 00:27:31
The way this form of government gets things done is by coming together, not by being opposed. 00:27:37
And the tenure of the city administrator is determined by merit and responsiveness. So if the if the administrative functions are 00:27:43
not carried out to the liking of the City Council, they can find another person to handle that function. Some disadvantages. As 00:27:50
with other forms of government, you may not elect professionals and they may be poorly suited for the jobs in front of them. They 00:27:56
may also be very qualified and very well suited. 00:28:03
There is inherent tension in how to allocate the administrative authority among the council, the mayor and the city manager 00:28:12
because all three, under this form of government, may have some of that administrative authority. 00:28:19
There's also an advantage with that because you can tailor it to fit your city. 00:28:26
And you're not tied to a. 00:28:31
Certain delineation of how it occurs, and then the other disadvantage is if the council and the mayor retain. 00:28:33
A lot of the administrative functions, then it can be politicized in the same way it is in the council mayor form. 00:28:41
5 member council again is almost identical to the six member council. The one difference is the mayor votes. 00:28:48
And the one disadvantage that is a little bit different on this list is the one on the very bottom right, which is the Open and 00:28:55
Public Meetings Act presents some challenges for how the mayor works with the members of the council. Because the mayor and the 00:29:03
five member council form of government is a voting member of the council. Anytime they're with two other members of the council, 00:29:10
you have a quorum. And if you have a quorum, you can't meet except in a public meeting. And so those. 00:29:17
Small meetings that need to occur to coordinate. 00:29:25
To work on complicated issues, a big project for example. 00:29:28
Is it on schedule or we have this particular aspect of it? We want to prepare information to bring forward in a public meeting. 00:29:34
The mayor can only do that work one at a time with members of the council. We're under A6 member council where the mayor doesn't 00:29:40
vote on those items. The mayor doesn't count when you're calculating a quorum and so there can be some, there can be more of that 00:29:46
informal liaising with. 00:29:51
Council members on how they do their functions. 00:29:58
One thing I forgot to mention on the mayor council form of government, when you vote on that, you can do A5 member council or A7 00:30:01
member council and so you'll vote. You would vote both on the form of the government and how many members you would want to have 00:30:08
on the council. The six and five, you have 5 voting members of your council on both of those. So how do you how does it happen if 00:30:15
you want to change? 00:30:22
The form of government. There's two ways it can begin. 00:30:30
The City Council can adopt A resolution or the voters can file a petition. 00:30:33
It has to occur at least 75 days before the general or the municipal election and so on. The two blue arrows. I've split that out 00:30:38
into 45 and 30. 00:30:44
And I did get to that. 75 S the council adopts a resolution or voters filed for a petition and gather signatures. 00:30:50
The council has 45 days to hold at least two public hearings on the topic from from when the petition or the resolution occur. And 00:30:58
then after those hearings, you would hold your election, your elections at the normal November date and the election would be 00:31:05
about do you want to change to the form of government? You have to identify on the ballot what form of government you're aiming 00:31:12
for. 00:31:20
You can't say do you want. 00:31:27
AB or C you have to identify one. 00:31:30
And then they would vote up, the voters would vote up or down on that. And then you would transition to what happens after it's 00:31:34
voted in. Assuming it passes, it doesn't take effect for another year. So you with the timing of where we're at right now, if the 00:31:42
council were to adopt A resolution, it would go on the November 2024 ballot. The the voters in the city would vote yes, we want it 00:31:50
or no, we don't want it, whatever form it is that's put forward. 00:31:58
And then if they vote yes, we want a change in government, you would then vote for the officers. 00:32:06
At the next election, which is the municipal election in fall of 2025, those new officers would be sworn in in January of 2026. So 00:32:14
none of this would take effect immediately. And I guess the reason I share that and why it's important is if you look at how your 00:32:21
council is currently composed, you have two members of the council that were just recently elected the four year terms. Neither of 00:32:29
them would be. 00:32:36
Affected by this change, but your other 3 voting members right now, the mayor and then the two other seats. 00:32:44
Would both be up for re-election anyway in the November 2025 election? That's I guess, a point of caution of if the only reason 00:32:53
you're contemplating the change in government is to try to accelerate your opportunity to vote on members of the council, it 00:33:00
doesn't do anything for you in that regard. 00:33:07
The state law is written in a way where if you change form of government, council members have a choice to remain council members 00:33:14
under the new government. And so anybody currently in their seat would continue in that role. And your election of officers for 00:33:21
the new government would occur at exactly the same time as when it would occur for you already. So you wouldn't have any changes 00:33:27
in that way. 00:33:33
What does it mean for Vineyard? So the the mayor and the council and the two council members that would be up for re-election 00:33:41
would see out their current terms. Those that are not up for re-election would still see out their current terms. 00:33:48
The new mayor and council members not elected until the next municipal general election, as I mentioned, and the earliest it can 00:33:57
change is January 1, 2026. 00:34:01
So what are what are my takeaways? David Church, who was my predecessor in this role and who advised the Utah League of Cities and 00:34:06
Towns for the longest time, when he would present on this topic, he would always lead with why do governments exist in Utah? Why 00:34:12
do city governments exist? And he always gave three reasons. And they're they're a little humorous in the way that he phrased it, 00:34:19
but he would say city governments exist first and foremost to provide services. We need water, we need clean water. We need 00:34:25
sewers, we need roads. 00:34:31
We provide services at our core. 00:34:39
The other thing that we do is we build communities. We try to bring people together. We want the places we live to be meaningful. 00:34:42
We want them to be the kinds of places we want to raise our children and enjoy. We hold events and fairs and festivals. We do 00:34:48
things to make sure it's clean and cared for. 00:34:53
And then the third and he would say the least important reason to have a city is so you can tell people what to do, right. We 00:35:00
wanted to find our land use and tell people what they can and can't build and what things should look like. We want to enact laws 00:35:06
about how people behave in public spaces and how they whether they clean up after themselves and, and take care of their property. 00:35:12
And so. 00:35:18
Those are the three things in Utah primarily that cities are enabled and empowered to do listed in order of importance. So with 00:35:26
all of that in mind that we've we've gone through. 00:35:33
This summary is you really have a set menu and there's only three choices. It's important to recognize the historical aspect of 00:35:41
how we got there, but we're we're ordering from a set menu and the only significant difference between the five and six member 00:35:48
council is whether the mayor votes. 00:35:56
When you think about do you want one of those two or a council mayor form, this is my advice only. 00:36:04
Council mayor invites conflict, the five and six member council forms of government invites cooperation, and I think that pretty 00:36:13
fairly plays out throughout the state when you look at those different forms. 00:36:19
The processes for the key decisions that the council makes are set by statute. They don't change based on your form of government. 00:36:27
So when you think about taxing spending, which is budget and land use. 00:36:36
All of those have set procedures that every city in the state has to follow, and those procedures are the same. 00:36:43
Whether you're A5 or A6 member, council form of government or whether you're a council mayor form of government, they don't change 00:36:51
at all. And your voice and your rights and who makes the decision on those things is the same regardless of the form of 00:36:58
government. And then on the right hand side, the thing I would highlight is that many of the things that we often associate with 00:37:06
the changing government really aren't. The current council has the authority to make changes now. 00:37:14
They can adopt rules and regulations for the administration, organization, operation, conduct and business of the city. They can 00:37:22
allocate the powers and duties of elected and appointed city officers. They can create offices that they think are necessary. They 00:37:30
can oversee the executive and administrative functions of the city. And you can tailor your ordinances right now to do the kinds 00:37:37
of things that you want and to allocate those. 00:37:44
Duties and and obligations how you want them. 00:37:52
No, no, Mr. you require. 00:38:26
I think I think the studies wise on some aspects of it, especially if you were to move to. 00:38:28
A council mayor, but. 00:38:34
There's. 00:38:37
One of the things I maybe don't like about how the state law is structured is it's a little bit of ready shoot aim in in how it's 00:38:39
structured because you vote on the change in the form of government. And then after that change occurs, the council begins working 00:38:46
to reform its current ordinances to match what it wants it to be. And if you go back to this slide, lots of the decisions you're 00:38:53
going to make. 00:39:01
When you change the form of government are all in that right hand column and you can already do those things. So it doesn't really 00:39:09
change a lot of that unless you go to the council mayor forum and then you are drawing bright lines. But a lot of those are 00:39:16
already drawn for you by statute. So if you're only thinking about a change between the five and six member council, I think what 00:39:24
you're really voting on is do you want the mayor to have a vote on the council or not. 00:39:31
Everything else is really the same and the Council authority is the same. 00:39:39
Did you get a chance to figure out cost of if we did put it on a ballot, what kind of is it just mostly cost from the recorder, 00:39:46
but it's, it's essentially the same cost that you would for any item that you put on the ballot. And it's, it tends to be a 00:39:53
minimum of 15 to 20,000. Do I have that ballpark right? 00:40:01
Is that? 00:40:13
Is that consistent like? 00:40:14
For example, I don't. 00:40:18
We don't, we have an election this fall. So what I'm just curious what's the cost and adding one item, one line item to it because 00:40:20
they have to do a separate one for Vineyard, that's what they'll just charge us the standard rate per registered voter. So it is 00:40:27
determined by registered voter, not by what's on the ballot, OK. 00:40:33
And then I did have like a really, it's a granular question. 00:40:41
Just like a little bit of my OCD, it drives me crazy that for the next election if we did go to like per SE A6 member council, we 00:40:48
would be electing 3 council members and a mayor in that election and then two years down the road it would only be just two 00:40:55
council members. Could we, would one of those seats be a two year term correct balance that happened that you would have to do it 00:41:02
that way in the statute calls for that so you would stagger one term. 00:41:09
And we would want to identify you'd have to run for that seat. 00:41:17
Well, maybe so one of the other wrinkles and details that we didn't get into here, but it is a choice available to you is you can 00:41:22
have your council seats be at large like they are right now, or you can have them by district. I don't love my district because I 00:41:29
think you end up fighting with among neighborhoods of well, you don't get your thing if I don't get mine and you're better off 00:41:36
making decisions for the city as a whole, all of you. But. 00:41:43
That's all to say if if you were. 00:41:52
If you were to allocate your council seats by district, you would have to identify ahead of time which is the two year seat. 00:41:55
If they're all at large, then what you probably could do is the third. 00:42:01
The 3rd place individual would get the two year term and the the 1st and 2nd place would get the four year term and then the mayor 00:42:09
of course would be a four year term. 00:42:15
OK. 00:42:23
Any other questions? 00:42:26
OK. I'm not seeing any other questions. Thank you so much for all of your work on this. We really appreciate it. We'll move. Oh, 00:42:32
Jake. 00:42:36
You're probably just looking for the button and you found it. Can I make one other note while we're patching it? I, I sent to the 00:42:41
council, I put together just a, you know, 2 sheet form a checklist table of what the difference authorities that are noted in 00:42:49
statute are for the different forms of government. A little bit of an asterisk to this as you read it. 00:42:57
Under all of under the five and six member council, the council's given the authority to reallocate most of these things how it 00:43:05
would like. 00:43:10
There are certain things that I touched on that you can't change, that you can't, for example, remove the mayor's ability to chair 00:43:15
the council. But most other things you can figure out where you want the council involved, where you want the mayor involved, 00:43:21
where you want the city manager involved. So if you don't see something on the list, but it currently exists in the city, it's 00:43:27
legal, or it currently exists, it's just been done by ordinance. So an example on that is the mayor has staff and that's totally 00:43:34
appropriate and totally fine. 00:43:40
It's not called out on this list in the five member council. It is called out on the six member council. I don't know why that 00:43:46
statute has it and the other doesn't, but it's lawful for you to approve that and to have that in a 5 member. 00:43:53
All right, go ahead, Jake. 00:44:02
So Jamie, you talked about the council and mayor. 00:44:06
Having conflict and you review what that conflict is and why you do that is negative. 00:44:10
You have a bright line between the executive and administrative function and the legislative function. 00:44:20
And a lot of that conflict often stems from. 00:44:26
The City Council members that want to be involved in the day-to-day affairs of the city and it is not appropriate under that 00:44:30
system for them to be involved in those affairs at all. 00:44:36
So if under the council mayor form of government and member of council said I want to meet with the department head and the mayor 00:44:42
said no, then they would not be able to meet with the department head. In fact, there's specific language in the statute that says 00:44:48
they may not give direction. 00:44:53
Two department heads. 00:45:00
Under the five and six member council form of government, you can allow for that kind of interaction to occur and in fact in the 00:45:02
ordinance you all passed just two weeks ago, you established a framework for some of those interactions to occur, I think in a 00:45:08
really healthy way. 00:45:14
That would not be an option to you under the mayor council form of government. The mayor could say no and that would be that would 00:45:20
be the rule on it. 00:45:24
So you also made mention of. 00:45:32
Largely of our disagreements currently, we as a majority can actually just vote to resolve some of the issues we have. The 00:45:36
Council. Is that what I'm hearing from you? 00:45:42
As a legislative, well I don't I don't know what you're referring to specifically with disagreements, but it it is accurate that 00:45:49
how you allocate the administrative functions of the city among the council, the mayor and the city manager are entirely within 00:45:55
the councils control right now. 00:46:01
Right now. 00:46:09
OK. So a lot of the Vineyard debate or or I would just say that. 00:46:10
Umm, lively that they've had. 00:46:18
Is the December 41 vote. So those are just positions like within the city that you you can't change what the supermajority does, 00:46:20
let's say some of the issues we've had. 00:46:26
Moving the communications department under the mayor or travel or just different things that did something that we currently have. 00:46:35
We just need to have a majority vote and change the we're empowered in the smaller. All of those things are within your authority. 00:46:42
And the change to the six just. 00:46:54
The six member council. The mayor still assistant chair of the legislative body. 00:47:00
Correct. 00:47:06
So you're not divided, Executive, legislative, you're not divided. 00:47:08
They the mayor is a member of the council, but not a voting member of the council. 00:47:14
The on the six member council there are certain things that the mayor votes on and I'm going off memory here so I may forget 00:47:20
something, but the key things that the mayor votes on under A6 member council is. 00:47:27
If you had a council member absent and there was a tie vote, the mayor would break the tie. If there is a vote on appointing a 00:47:35
city manager, the mayor votes on that decision if there is a vote on. 00:47:43
Changing the mayor's authority. 00:47:52
The mayor votes on that item and the same rules that apply to A5 member council on needing the mayor's vote. 00:47:55
And a majority of the council or everybody on the council but the mayor apply to that kind of a decision in both the five and the 00:48:04
six member council form of government. 00:48:09
For the record, somebody spoke, not by the microphone. Do we need that name for who Jamie was responding to? 00:48:15
OK, that's OK. I it, it was fine. I just wanted to make sure that we got her name on if we needed it so. 00:48:25
Jake, did you have additional questions? 00:48:36
Are we going to have a public comment period? 00:48:40
Yes, there is a public comment period. 00:48:43
They can ask. 00:48:46
We'll have a public comment period, but this is a work session, so go ahead and save your comment. I mean state your comment. 00:48:52
No, so we're not doing a public comment period. We're not doing public hearing. No, this is there's no decision on the agenda on 00:49:00
this item. It's a work session only which typically is a discussion among the council if it if you go down the path of. 00:49:10
Looking at a resolution, you're required to hold public hearings as part of that process, and that's when that would occur. 00:49:20
So we can't do the resolutions didn't no. 00:49:27
This is just a work session. 00:49:32
Yes, yeah, we could. 00:49:37
Do you want to? 00:49:41
Marty, how are you feeling? Don't put me on the spot or anything, Jake. 00:49:43
Honestly, I have. I have a lot of different feelings. 00:49:51
I don't have interest in the council mayor forum I believe that it creates. 00:49:59
I, I see the conflict, I see the issues with having limited access. I believe it limits both sides of things. And I worry that I, 00:50:07
I would need, I would need some convincing because everything I've seen so far, I don't feel like that's a great form of 00:50:14
government, especially for a city our size. It's not very common. They have, I think the only cities in Utah that have that form 00:50:22
of government are Sandy, Salt Lake, and. 00:50:29
Ogden. 00:50:40
Umm I could see us moving to A6 member council. I do like the idea of creating more of a. 00:50:41
It's, it's not a bright line, but I feel like it does separate executive and legislative with having the mayor not have 00:50:50
necessarily a vote in the legislative duties, but more of having the mayor be in the role of taking legislative action and helping 00:50:57
the city move forward with it. I think that that could create a more unifying position for the mayor rather than being in the 00:51:03
weeds of the legislative votes. 00:51:10
I'm, I'm, I'm open to A6 member council, but I don't think you'll have my vote on a council mayor for him. 00:51:21
Would you guys like to move forward with the resolution date? I had one more comment. I also think that we could save money 00:51:29
$18,000 and work on our legislative items. But I feel like there is some conflict there because I think a lot of the concerns that 00:51:37
you might have, Jake, have to do with the mayor's powers and that would require a super majority, which I don't think you'll get. 00:51:46
That was it, and oh, go ahead. 00:51:57
I appreciate your comments. 00:52:00
Did we want to make a motion for? 00:52:04
I. 00:52:08
My comment is. 00:52:12
You know, I, I recognize that history and the growth of Vineyard. 00:52:17
I'm having then, you know. 00:52:23
Being one of the grandsons of one of the articles organizations of the five and and being from, you know, 100 people now to 00:52:28
14,000. 00:52:32
I think it's natural for cities to outgrow their governments and support structures in place. We've had three great mayors and 00:52:38
then one, Mayor Homer, to recognize that. I'm saying that despite conflicts, I recognize their survey. And, you know, starting 00:52:46
from ruling Gamut is a very good man. And also, Randy Mayor Farnsworth. And one of the struggles with the current form of 00:52:55
government we have is the alleviation of authority despite being, you know, great men and women. 00:53:03
In the three, I think there's wisdom in the separation of powers and the unseen and recognizing the growth of our city. So I 00:53:12
would. 00:53:17
You know, lean towards the six member council. I know, I know. 00:53:22
It might not seem like a significant change, but I do. I do see wisdom in having a more limited role of the mayor moving across 00:53:29
council members. 00:53:34
Is there a motion? 00:53:42
For resolution in the future. 00:53:46
I would also make a motion. 00:53:48
To put this on for a vote to study as a city in the coming couple of weeks, we could do this two weeks from today. That would be 00:53:53
great. So are you asking for a specific study or more of a resolution to put it into the 45 day process where we do two public 00:53:59
hearings? 00:54:04
I think we do a 40 day, 45 day process and see public hearings, but I I didn't know the public couldn't speak this evening. I was 00:54:11
hoping that we could speak about it before the 45 days before starting initially, like initially starting the process. 00:54:18
The public could speak about it during public comment. 00:54:26
Yeah, during public comment I would love to stand up and give their advice. 00:54:31
Are we active about that before the public comment period? 00:54:38
Could we do a resolution at the end of the meeting? Well, you're not making a resolution today. All you're all you're doing is 00:54:43
moving it to a future agenda. I mean, I can just put it on, but I know you guys can put it on. There's no need for a vote. You 00:54:49
can, you can have it there. I want to make sure I understand what you're driving toward though. So the resolution needs to be 00:54:55
prepared for a specific choice of government and I understand the choice to be a six member council form of government. I have 00:55:01
that right. 00:55:07
And that's what the resolution language would be. 00:55:15
And then state code has pretty specific language about what the ballot is and then what that resolution is. So I'll just draft it 00:55:18
to match. Thank you for that clarity. I think that's good. I'd be happy to put it on. If you guys want to wait to request 00:55:26
something for a future agenda until after you make your remarks to us about what you've been up to, we could do it then. 00:55:34
I just say, can I make? I'd be happy to just put it on. So either way, OK, sounds great. If you have another comment, I was just 00:55:45
going to make a motion to ask for a resolution to be put on the agenda. Hey, we have a first. Do we have a second Kate? We have a 00:55:51
first by Marty, second by Sarah. Any discussion? 00:55:57
All right. All in favor. Aye, aye. 00:56:04
Aye, OK. And Ambers excuse. All right, that brings us to our next work session which is our City Hall building and Morgan will. 00:56:07
Lead out on that discussion. Great. Thank you, Mayor and members of the council. 00:56:20
Give us just a minute, we'll get set up. Thank you. 00:56:25
So I need somebody. I need to let this Sarah, right? 00:56:32
Yes. And we do have Janet Kwan with Nelson Partners that is on the smart board. 00:56:39
And so, Jenna, if you want to get your presentation up for the council and then I can. 00:56:49
Yes, I'll talk a little bit louder. 00:56:58
All right. So Jana Kwan is with Nelson Partners. That's the architectural firm that we contract with to help us with a spatial 00:57:02
analysis. 00:57:06
I'm going to share. We're just going to. Let's not. 00:57:13
OK. 00:57:19
Yeah, just give me a second. 00:57:20
All right, Janet, I'll, I'll, I'm going to lead off and then I'll have you, I'll have you take over and then I'll just, I'll just 00:57:31
follow your slides. So we both have the same presentation. My slides will be for the public and then Janet is facing the City 00:57:38
Council. So last year the city approved moving forward with a special analysis. We had interest in two entities that. 00:57:46
Wanted to Co locate with the with the city that would be Mag Mountain lands Association of government. 00:57:54
And also Web Rd. which is a business incubator entity that helps businesses get off the ground and and provides them business 00:58:00
services. 00:58:05
And so some of the reasons that were discussed for looking at City Hall in downtown was to consolidate staff into one facility to 00:58:12
provide a central location for services for the public. 00:58:19
And also there was a donation of land from flag Bro to to the city for for the City Hall. So there's some cost savings in, in that 00:58:27
regard. And so that kicked off kind of this initial spatial analysis. 00:58:34
And so all this is denied as a presentation of of that spatial analysis we do have in the budget. 00:58:42
A request for the $2,000,000 to do the deeper design and study that that would also allow the city to hone down, hone in on a 00:58:52
final budget that that we would need to, you know, try and finance should the City Council want, want to move forward with, with 00:59:00
the City Hall. 00:59:07
The site is located in block 5 or north of block 5 in the promenade. So the promenade, if you remember, has five blocks and this 00:59:16
would be. 00:59:22
Of the downtown, this would be block 10. So block 10 is north of block 5. 00:59:29
So show this. 00:59:36
OK, so you can see from this graphic. 00:59:43
So this is block five of the promenade and then this is block 10 of the downtown development blocks. 00:59:46
Um, and so yeah, I just wanted to to touch on just a few things. 00:59:56
Another reason that we're kind of looking at this was for the economic development opportunities that are present kind of in the 01:00:03
area. 01:00:06
We did look at a few other city halls, Provo City Hall and also the Mill Creek City Hall and, and this plan incorporates some of 01:00:12
those things that that were that we found to be beneficial in talking with with those entities. 01:00:20
We also have the benefit of being next to the promenade, having the public space right there. And so it allows for a unique 01:00:30
opportunity to integrate design within the public space that could also help with the community space within the City Hall as 01:00:36
well. And so without any further ado, I'll turn this over to, to Janet with Nelson Partners. And Janet, if you want to take them 01:00:43
through the plans and then I'll, I'll match your, your slide movement. Thank you. 01:00:50
All right. Thank you, Morgan and also Council for letting present this. And if there are any questions along the way, feel free to 01:00:58
interrupt. 01:01:02
Circle next to those. So I was working stated what you're looking at here is kind of just an overall site plan of where the 01:01:06
Vineyard City Hall building would be basically in this parcel here just north of the park. The rest of this development, there's a 01:01:13
lot of development happening all around this building as well. And so when you look on this side, this is just kind of a little 01:01:21
bit of a close up of the site plan. 01:01:28
What we're looking at right now, again, as Morgan mentioned, I met with the city as well as with Mag and Rev Rd. trying to find 01:01:36
out what their needs were on the project. And what we've come up with right now is a four story building. 01:01:44
Just basically just over 78,000 square feet, 1002 higher agencies, square feet located just north of the promenade. There would 01:01:53
kind of be a green state out front of the City Hall because there are a lot of utilities that exist in this N plate promenade in 01:02:01
the entire way. So there'd be some sort of green stage that would separate the City Hall from the promenade. There would also be a 01:02:09
parking garage to the north of the City Hall that would be. 01:02:17
For City Hall as well as. 01:02:25
Yeah. I think there's discussions of other portions of the development sharing that parking garage. So when you're looking at kind 01:02:27
of a breakdown of each floor, I'll be able to sort of give you an overview as well as some initial floor plans we have for each 01:02:35
floor. But it basically, as I mentioned, ends up about 78,000 square feet. 01:02:43
So when you're looking close, some of our design thought was to have a kind of entrance from the South that would connect to the 01:02:53
common on so that anybody that's at the park, the pool, whatever, we have access. 01:03:00
To the city building as well as having an entrance on the north side. That opened up more to the actual overall development of 01:03:09
this project. 01:03:15
So just sort of what what you're seeing here is just kind of an explorative assault showing you the thought processes behind how 01:03:23
we designed this building and what we were putting on all the floors. So if we start from the ground level and as I mentioned, we 01:03:31
will get more specifically into a floor plan, but this just kind of gives you a sort of color-coded picture of what's occurring. 01:03:39
And. 01:03:47
Janet, our our computer is loading very slow, so yeah, if you wanna just hang for a second, sorry. 01:03:53
OK. Are you guys now? We'll I'll let you know. I'll let you know probably 10 seconds. 01:04:02
The anticipation is building. 01:04:10
All right, we're there. 01:04:13
OK. So as I mentioned on this first floor, what you're seeing in this sort of pinkish purple color are elements that would be sort 01:04:18
of part of the public use. So you've got as well as sort of yellow with circulation. So you're seeing that lobby insurance from 01:04:26
the Commonwealth that I mentioned here as well as you got lobby access from the north, which would open up to the rest of the 01:04:35
development. And as Morgan mentioned, one of the things that we looked at as we met with him and as they were fist other. 01:04:44
All buildings in the area was an opportunity for kind of community. 01:04:53
Elephant. 01:04:59
Exhibition stage, whatever that might be, but the idea that you would have some community engagement that can happen on that first 01:05:01
floor. 01:05:05
And then what you're seeing kind of in this green color is the actual Vineyard City building, so on the 2nd floor, and there would 01:05:12
be a staircase, just kind of a grand staircase that connects the 1st floor to the second. You're seeing the Vineyard City Hall 01:05:19
offices and buildings and then the council chambers. 01:05:27
On this North East corner and again we'll look at plans of that most specifically. 01:05:35
What you're looking at in this blue color or any spaces that are shared throughout the building. And when we talked with Mag as 01:05:42
well as Red Rd. and you know, even with the city, it was the idea of couldn't give you some functions that you could share such as 01:05:50
conference rooms, larger conference room tickets, you know, open up into creating a space that allows 100 people to other things 01:05:58
like upgrade room area. 01:06:05
You know, fitness or things like that that could be shared throughout the building. So if we get to the plans, you'll see that. 01:06:13
But that's what kind of this this color is. We also then have Meg right now is shown as taking the entire third floor. They needed 01:06:21
some warehouse space, which is what you're seeing on this first floor on the West corner was warehouse suits for them and then Red 01:06:30
Rose was we were looking at the 5th floor for that. 01:06:38
But then creating some event space on the very top floor. And I believe this is also similar to some of the other City Hall 01:06:46
buildings in Utah, but the idea that this is a space that could be rented out and that was on the 4th floor as well. 01:06:54
And then you know you have restroom floors and high storage going throughout the building. 01:07:04
So I can, I can move on to the floor plan if I, if I can add something, if I can add something to you, there is, there is future 01:07:10
tenant space that you see denoted in the building. So you'll see in the City Hall. The idea with that was for future expansion 01:07:18
space, we wanted this building to fit the needs of the city for the next, you know, you know, as long as we really could, but you 01:07:25
know, for the next 20 years and that provides us the opportunity to. 01:07:33
You know at least that out and then doing maybe short leases if there was an engineering firm or someone that needed some space 01:07:41
and then at the end of that lease when we needed the space, we could then grow into that space. And so that that was the thought 01:07:47
process was providing some spaces that we could grow into. 01:07:52
You know, and I could just say also understanding that the square footage is that you're looking at here instead point based on my 01:08:00
meetings with them and the space that they thought they needed taking into account future growth. 01:08:06
But you know, as Morgan has mentioned, there's nothing set in stone. This is just a kind of space analysis. 01:08:14
So are there any questions on this diagram or? 01:08:25
Any questions? 01:08:30
Feel free to continue. 01:08:34
OK. Thank you. 01:08:36
So what you're looking at here is the first floor plan and have it loaded. Yeah, you're probably gonna need to give us about 10 01:08:38
seconds again, maybe 20. 01:08:43
OK. Yeah, you're good. 01:09:15
OK, now as I mentioned again at the bottom of the page, you're seeing the Commodore. This would be that Green states that 01:09:17
separates the City Hall building from the promenade. As you get a little closer to what is occurring here, again, this is that 01:09:23
Bobby space. 01:09:29
That was coming from the South to allow easy access from the and then you also have this lobby space to the north for the rest of 01:09:35
the development. 01:09:41
And this is that element that could be that communication, whether it's, you know. 01:10:24
Farmers Market, Crescent, whatever that element is, just the idea that we're playing some space for some community engagement. 01:10:31
Again, as you come into the building, this is that grant there that would take you up to the video and see all building. What 01:10:42
you're seeing in this dash line here, this would be a two source space. So that opens up. 01:10:48
Using the 2nd floor again, you have here #5 are these conference rooms? This is what I was talking about, that this is conference 01:10:54
rooms that could be used for any of the tenants in the building. They could have multiple partitions so that he could open up and 01:11:02
need one larger space if there were events that warranted that. 01:11:10
You know what you're also not saying like years. I'm not showing any exterior windows and that type of thing. So don't think that 01:11:19
it's a building without windows. You know, you you still would have all of that and connections to the park used to the park, but 01:11:26
it's really just a special analysis at this point. And Janet. 01:11:33
Oh OK, when you're done I'll I'll add a few other items. 01:11:42
OK, sure. Other things that were kind of important to, you know, the test sitting in bag was an idea of places for bike parking. 01:11:46
If you're writing the work, ability to be able to take a shower, you know, bring your bike. So we kind of have some bike storage 01:11:57
down here. And then as I mentioned previously, Mag needed a large warehouse area as well as kind of trailer parking. 01:12:06
So that's what you're seeing at .9 is the trailer parking and the parking garage. You would like to see to the north of that. And 01:12:15
then again we have things like electrical rooms, elevators, you know makes main stairs throughout the building negotiations for we 01:12:23
have 3 elevators shown here and then more of a grass there is connecting the 1st and 2nd floor. 01:12:32
Right. And to clarify, MAG is Mountain Lands Association of Governments. They are our metropolitan planning organizations. So 01:12:42
they're in charge of doing long range planning, long range land use planning. They provide economic development services and 01:12:49
coordination on a regional basis. And then they also provide a weatherization program. So they help folks that need AAC or they 01:12:56
need heating within their houses that fall within like a low income bracket. 01:13:03
And they also provide the Meals on Wheels program. So if you see those trucks going going around that that's bag and they told her 01:13:11
Utah Summit and Wasatch counties a few other items to point out too under like Mill Creek. One thing that was really nice the 01:13:17
community loved it was that they provided. 01:13:24
Starting to do really well. And so I it's just kind of a one of those things that if you're interested in from a, from a council 01:14:06
standpoint, we could, we could try and incorporate into the into the building. That's great. Thanks. 01:14:12
Jake has his hand up. Hold on one second. 01:14:18
Am I good with me? 01:14:31
OK. 01:14:35
So this is 87,000 square feet like that's. 01:14:39
And three, three people separating it all owners mag and then the other third like by the floor, are they renting it from the two 01:14:44
of them? 01:14:48
So we would look at Craig from Ron Eric, but we would work so that this is just providing like the spatial analysis. I believe 01:14:54
that there's there's like a mag was very open on how we could do it. But I believe yeah, both entities are I believe we're gonna 01:15:01
work with Lewis Young to help us understand kind of from a financing standpoint how. 01:15:09
From a financing standpoint, how that that could come together whether it's three separate owners or if there's long term places. 01:15:17
So I I think those details that haven't necessarily been worked out, but the idea is to is to contract with like Louisiana to help 01:15:23
us evaluate that. 01:15:29
My first initial comment, and I don't want to attack everything, that the size of this City Council building is similar to the 01:15:39
Saratoga Springs one. 01:15:44
Which has the current price tag of 55, zero million dollars. 01:15:50
Of a special size to build today. 01:15:55
You know, so that's kind of like. 01:16:02
I I I get maybe there's an acre of land to donate. I can imagine an acre in this property being a couple 100,000 or 3.43400 01:16:07
thousand, but 50 million? 01:16:13
So basically the 2,000,000 is only just for the planning. 01:16:20
Of the building. 01:16:26
Yeah, that, that would get us to the construction, construction documents. 01:16:29
So I I did some. 01:16:35
Commercial analysis on my own and just pulled off that space around here and I asked for. 01:16:38
You know how many I know we have 1512 fifteen staff and our current building over there by Maverick and just a quarter mile 01:16:46
outside of Vineyard, I was able to find three places for under 350, three, $160,000 total. 01:16:54
Like I was like $360,000 to 50 million. Like I mean, it's like we're right now in the lowest. 01:17:05
Commercial real estate since the 1970s, yet we're at the highest in all in in commercial building. 01:17:16
So that's my only question is. 01:17:26
So. 01:17:33
I just wanted to point out a couple things to respond. Jake, the building size is 78,000 square feet and. 01:17:36
No, that's fine. And still I'm looking at the screen and that's the same. It's roughly the same size. Yeah. One big distinction in 01:17:47
the planning on this is that the City Hall is not intended to house public safety when we looked at Provo City. 01:17:56
The public safety element of that building brought the cost per square foot up substantially and so the total cost of the building 01:18:05
is somewhere more in the ballpark of the 20 to $30 million range and with three partners that brings it into a a much more 01:18:11
reasonable cost for the city. 01:18:17
To provide something within its city in the downtown core that provides amenities for the general public. 01:18:23
Yeah, I would add to, I mean that's, so this is conceptual, this is just to kind of start the process. That's where Lewis Young 01:18:33
would would help us with that analysis to see, you know if how we can get this down as as as reasonable as possible. 01:18:40
I mean, I think this is a great idea for 20/30/20 Forty 2015. You know, when you look at a similar city like Provost, not like us, 01:18:49
right? Provost 100,000 or 14,000. This would be us putting the facts of a City Hall decides in Saratoga Springs, but they have a 01:18:57
population of 60,000, so they're spreading that out across 60,000 residents. We would be building the equivalent size and putting 01:19:06
the tax burden on only 1415 thousand residents. 01:19:14
And, and we're building it, you know, years early. Like decades earlier than what? 01:19:23
You know, so I understand that this is like a dream of like, hey, you know, downtown when vineyards built out give me a few tough 01:19:30
cities successful in getting a population of their morning. I mean, yeah, you probably would need something like that. But with us 01:19:38
that like, I don't know, 30% of the city is like we're building something that is 100% build up ready, right. So is is Saratoga 01:19:45
Springs or is it just that there are city offices because. 01:19:53
This is not just the city offices. These are three entities. 01:20:00
That that, that that would make it. 01:20:04
Where they're actually going to have the county police have a portion of their property. 01:20:06
I think you're being on the other side of the lathe that that price point would be any different, I think. 01:20:14
Sorry, cutting off, I think it would be fine to go and look and see their numbers. I mean, that would be really interesting to 01:20:23
find those comparables. I think you could also speak to what the staff is experiencing right now with the division and multiple 01:20:27
different buildings and. 01:20:32
And the disconnect and how your teams are growing and what that looks like for Jake. 01:20:37
100% I mean, I understand being in different buildings, but almost every city has done that. I mean, you know, when you talk to 01:20:45
Maple thing and whatnot, they, they write it up modular trailers. They they've done Saratoga Springs, they've done used dental 01:20:52
offices for makeshift for 5-10 years. So like we need to get into a better situation right now. This is the best time in the 01:21:00
market. Like I, I went two or four or five different locations and it was like. 01:21:08
A square footage right now is the best deal in the world. 01:21:16
So we need to get better space and yeah, let's do it for a little while and it would be very smart for the city to buy the space. 01:21:20
Because it is the bottom of the people at the bottom of If you read KSL 3 months ago, this is the this is the best times to buy 01:21:29
and the worst time to build commercial real estate since 1970. Jake, when you were when I when I toured it, I was like wow, we can 01:21:37
pay cash for some of these buildings for 300K400K. 01:21:44
What a savings to taxpayers. So hey, Jake, when you were touring or when you were looking at those buildings, were they within 01:21:53
Vineyard? 01:21:57
NT University Parkway right at the end of quarter mile outside, there's one right next to a freeway off ramp in an arm on Center 01:22:02
St. They're they're just barely outside. And taxpayers look at that and go, wow, put a massive cost saving while we're waiting the 01:22:09
three to five years to save up money for a, you know, 50 million, $50 million project, right. I think as we're writing down some 01:22:16
of the thoughts that save sharing. 01:22:23
It would be good as they move forward in these discussions to maybe look at those things and get actual numbers and and what that 01:22:30
looks like and provide options as we look forward to this further discussion with the City Council. Yeah, that's one of my 01:22:37
questions. I would like to know more accurate numbers. Like Jake, you keep saying 50, but then staff just said 20 to 30. Am I 01:22:44
correct? And then. 01:22:50
And then we would be splitting that cost with two other entities. So I would like to know a little bit more accurate numbers 01:22:59
before we start jumping to outside of the city options. And then the other thing. 01:23:04
Yeah, I think that's great. And we can have staff grab those numbers too, additional with the accurate numbers you're asking for, 01:23:13
Marty. Yeah. And then the other question I had is moving forward with something like that. I guess it would be interesting to hear 01:23:19
from Lewis and Young how we would pay for it if that was something that we would have to go to bond or if we're talking tax 01:23:26
increases or if we're just talking that this would be something that our RDA would afford. 01:23:32
And then my other just comment is I think there is there's two sides to this. And I definitely want to be fiscally responsible and 01:23:39
I want to be wise with our money. But I also know that there is value and good planning. And so if this means we have this good 01:23:47
plan of getting a centralized location with Freeland and partnerships in a viable way that doesn't put a huge tax burden on our 01:23:54
residents, I just need a lot more information so. 01:24:02
Jake, I think you bring up great questions and I think I agree with the mayor. It's worth looking into for sure. 01:24:11
I just want to say hold on Jake. Hold on Jake one minute, Jake, hold on one second. Sarah is going to go and then I'll throw it to 01:24:18
you. I just want to say I appreciate you guys. You're considering including the community areas in this building. I think it's 01:24:24
really awesome. We talked about that a little bit and to have conference rooms that that are usable for the citizens. So I just 01:24:31
wanted to acknowledge your. 01:24:38
You're making an effort to do that. I think that's really cool It the price tag is overwhelming, right? And it feels premature. 01:24:45
And I feel like if what I also looked at one of those buildings that were for rent. So it's to buy I guess for less than 300,000. 01:24:52
So really it's it's making sure that the timeline makes sense and that we are being careful with the money that we have. So it 01:24:59
doesn't feel. 01:25:07
To the citizens like. 01:25:15
Opulence. 01:25:17
Does that make sense? So. 01:25:19
Yeah, and really this process is to is to answer these types of questions and see if the City Council wants to move forward so 01:25:21
that. And so yeah, I think we need to dig in and yeah, I think the direction that we're sorry Jake, go to you and then I'll. 01:25:30
After you. 01:25:39
I mean, my eyes were open when I found this, when I saw this on the agenda. And I spent a lot of time with quite a few different 01:25:42
commercial real estate agents right now. And what has been eye opening to me is that everyone has gone from working in an office 01:25:48
to working from home. 01:25:55
And they are very, they are saying that the amount of commercial real estate is available on the market might take, you know, 10 01:26:02
to 15 years to eat up just a open space. And so, and then my, the other thing I toured with Warren is Orem cities population 01:26:10
around 9:00. What is it 9598 thousand? I think we'll get the exact numbers on that. But they're building is only 44,000 square 01:26:18
feet. So it's like, I understand they're not renting it out. I do like the idea that you guys are. 01:26:26
Going to Mount Land Association of Governments and you know, Saratoga Springs is is doing the same thing with the county and 01:26:34
bringing those services over over there. So I can see that. My only concern is like the third tenant and I don't know the company. 01:26:42
If it's just a tenant situation, we. 01:26:52
Looking at how many people have moved off their spaces and from really good leases and which actually makes me wish we could 01:26:59
renegotiate our current lease by Maverick because of the dropout in the market. But I did look at the contract. 01:27:07
For another year or so. But yeah, I think there needs to be. I wouldn't mind studying or putting a citizen Commission together on 01:27:16
finances and like even even their council and doing some tours and understanding like cities. 01:27:25
Because one thing I did come out of this today, I do think we need to plan. I like what Marty said and like this, this does look 01:27:35
like something that you know, you need to save the plan some meeting with Utah City and say, hey, you know what? We if this isn't 01:27:43
our long range plan, great. You know, we need to talk about that, right? 01:27:50
All right. Do you have more comments? I have this thing. One thing that I also wanted to mention was just to keep in mind 01:28:00
oftentimes, and I heard this from Lewis and Young, sometimes building something earlier might cost half or I hate throwing out 01:28:09
numbers that can't be back, but there could be a definite savings and building something sooner. 01:28:19
But like I get, I like your mentality and the sentiment that you're sharing. 01:28:28
All right. Any additional comments on this? 01:28:36
If not, I feel like you guys have pretty good guidance. Is there anything you need clarity on? 01:28:41
Sorry, I appreciate that. 01:28:47
Yeah, I think that I really appreciate this. Obviously the sticker shock and and everything goes to the engines. 01:28:53
Bring this back again for discussion. 01:29:04
I think what my plan is, is I'm going to let the staff go and collect that information and then as they build that time, I'm 01:29:07
hoping to keep it within the budget timeline. So I'm going to bring it back as early and often within this budget framework. 01:29:15
So I mean like July 1st? No, that would be outside the budget framework. So that would be after the approval of the final budget. 01:29:25
I'm thinking the next meeting or the meeting after that. So it's still within the budget framework. 01:29:32
We would know that the bonding or the financial mechanism. 01:29:41
Of what we would be paying for the total build up. I think that's, I don't know exactly what Lewis and Young will provide or what 01:29:47
answers we'll come back with. But I think that the direction that we've given them, hopefully they'll be able to glean those 01:29:53
answers and come back. And if it's something that we feel like we have enough answers on that we can vote on anything that would 01:29:59
be in our budget. We can. And if not we'll move it to the next year and we can do any amendments that would be necessary or. 01:30:05
Kind of proceed in that way. 01:30:13
OK, the only request that I would have is when they report back in Saratoga Springs, Orem and promo have all talked about budget 01:30:16
creep and about their what they estimated of what it would cost was dramatically higher than what it ultimately did. And So what I 01:30:25
would like is a is a complete, I don't want to know just the $2,000,000 for planning because I mean that's just a design this 01:30:33
right? It's like OK from beginning then landscaping everything all in and budget creep. 01:30:41
And I would like them to study out what that Budget Creek was, was from at least three different cities to say from when you voted 01:30:51
to win to where you're at, what is the total percentage that you probably get a breakdown of the three. So we can add that 01:30:59
percentage on suite so the citizens know before we vote. We're voting on the total X amount, dollar amount. 01:31:07
OK. Thank you. That's helpful. Do you guys feel like we can accomplish that? I know you're working closely with the cities that 01:31:17
just built so. 01:31:20
Yeah, Yeah. We'd be having to reach out and we haven't worked with with Mill Creek as well. Oh yeah. They, they, they'd be a 01:31:24
really good comparative. Yeah, comparable. OK, great. All right. With that, we'll go ahead and move on to our next part of our 01:31:30
agenda. 01:31:35
Let's see. 01:31:43
Who is all desiring to make a comment? 01:31:46
Can you raise your hands a little bit higher just so I can count? 01:31:50
All right, um. 01:31:54
Come on up, state your name and what you would like to talk to us about. 01:31:57
Where are you from? Other things? 01:32:03
Daria Evans. 01:32:11
Thank you for this opportunity. Can I ask a couple questions about the City Hall? OK. 01:32:13
I'd like to know if they know what the market value of the land being donated is worth. 01:32:20
I'd also like to know what would happen to the current mag building on Geneva Rd. What would that what would happen to that 01:32:27
building and could Vineyard utilize it for maybe as a public works building house people there since already the public works 01:32:35
building up here in Vineyard is already at capacity and we need to expand it which is too bad. 01:32:42
And also. 01:32:51
I would like to know is the designer of the construction documents? Is that going out for a bid? 01:32:54
And. 01:33:04
When would that come in? 01:33:07
And also I would just like to thank Nasim Gandor for getting our 25 mile an hour speed limit signs in our community. 01:33:09
And I think that's it. Thank you very much. 01:33:20
Can I add to the Naseem thing? I heard that one of them was placed in a terrible location and the city responded very quickly to 01:33:24
changing that. 01:33:28
Oh, come back to the microphone. 01:33:34
We had a neighbor. 01:33:36
Was not happy because the big red sign was right in her field of view of the mountains and the same and his crew switched, 01:33:39
switched around, got a bigger pole and put it so it wasn't in her view. Thank you very much. That was really nice. Thank you. 01:33:48
Kim Cornelius Resident I would just say our village residents take the mountains very seriously. So I have a a lady wanted me to 01:34:03
move a tree 3 feet so she can see my nose better. 01:34:08
How about when you respond to or are you asking? 01:34:46
I know we've got the two weeks to come back with it on the agenda. So I was hoping maybe there could be some suggest for some 01:34:51
discussion to make sure we get the right. Jamie, did you want to offer clarity there, just that what you refer to is? 01:34:57
In the statute called the six member council form of government, is that what they call? Yeah, You have 5 working members hearing 01:35:04
the same thing as what we were reading. The mayor is the chair of the council. The mayor votes on certain items but not 01:35:09
everything. OK, so would be still 5 council members perhaps. OK, thank you. 01:35:14
Sorry about that. I'm Darlene Price. I'm from the Villas. Just a couple of things that as I was watching the presentations, which 01:35:32
by the way were very excellent and informative. I, I appreciate that, especially the history that we went through. I know that 01:35:38
that was a lot of work. 01:35:45
One piece. 01:35:51
Our current government that we have right here, which one is that? 01:35:54
5 member council, the five member council. OK. And originally, as I was doing my research, I originally found out that for 01:36:00
example, that's that kind of government was for small towns a certain amount and most of those people knew each other. So for 01:36:08
example, my family in Leamington, UT, their form of government was this kind because they all were neighbors and were related some 01:36:15
way or another, the Christiansons and the deaths and suddenly other people in that small town. 01:36:23
And they trusted each other. And so that form of government worked very well for them. And that's the kind that we have here, but 01:36:31
we don't have. 01:36:35
Family members that trust each other. And so I'm I am concerned about that. I'm concerned by the fact that. 01:36:42
One of the things that kept coming back was the conflict that this particular type of government had. I don't see that we have a 01:36:52
type of government that is without conflict what we currently have. And, and so how it can't be worse than what we've got. That's 01:36:59
what I keep thinking is it just cannot be worse than what we've got and you have to admit. 01:37:07
That there are nights when I come here on Wednesday that I'm not sure what we're going to see. You know, we've got people that are 01:37:15
very, very passionate about where they are. And so I, I find a change of government is what we need for, for Vineyard, mostly 01:37:22
because we're not a small town anymore. The other thing we were talking about was the City Hall. I am overwhelmed at the point of 01:37:30
paying $50 million for a building that we will use in the future. 01:37:38
With promises that we will rent this out and we'll rent this out and we don't know that that's what's going to happen. 01:37:46
If in four years, three years, two years, the economy goes into the sink, where will we be stuck with building a $50 billion 01:37:54
building? And I want to tell you, I'm a retired person, recently widowed, and I don't have the ability to go out and earn more 01:38:02
money to pay my taxes. And so I, I would say knock down that wall right there. If you want bigger spaces, move this place back. 01:38:10
And that won't cost you $50 million. I don't even think it'll cost you 300. 01:38:18
To just knock that out. If you want temporary space, more space. 01:38:27
Karen Cornelius, Villa resident. 01:38:39
I first of all I just want to say my head is spinning. 01:38:43
And I know that this you said it was in the budget last year that we are spending $2,000,000 for a conceptual design. 01:38:47
I, I, I, I'm blown away. So then when I think of that, I think that the $50 million price tag might be a little bit low because 01:38:59
usually those designs are percentage of the total project. 01:39:07
So it's really kind of scary to think what the total project would be. And I know that that's going to require something happening 01:39:15
financially and Vineyard, whether it be bonds, whether it be tax increases. 01:39:20
But at the same time, we're looking at a school district that is totally and completely uncertain and if we have to begin a new 01:39:27
school district. 01:39:31
In our neck of the woods where we're no longer paying for school buildings in Saratoga Springs, which I can understand why we need 01:39:38
to do this, but we don't know what the tax implications that is going to put on the citizens of vineyards. I think we have to back 01:39:44
up, and I think that's one of my concerns. 01:39:50
That I've had since I've lived here is everything has to be. 01:39:57
At a rapid pace. And we can't make all of these decisions that rapidly when we have so much uncertainty. And I'm concerned about 01:40:03
what the school district will mean. I know that that is an expensive proposition, but I also know in my mind that the benefits of 01:40:11
that far outweigh the benefits of a beautiful Taj Mahal in Utah City. We have to take into consideration the future of the 01:40:18
families and the children that live in this. 01:40:26
This town, and if that's where our money needs to go for five years, that's where our money needs to go. And other things can be 01:40:34
put on the back burner, not done away with. But that cannot be our focus in the here and now because as my friend just said, we're 01:40:42
on fixed incomes. So don't do that. Don't put everything on us all at once. 01:40:49
I'm still also waiting for an answer as to what we can do about the 4:00 to 1:00 when we were told on December 13 that our new 01:40:57
council could change that. And I'm waiting for an answer to that question as to how that can actually happen. Thank you. 01:41:05
Hello Sherry K Miller resident. I want to tell Pam first I'm sorry about your back. I feel horrible because I've had back 01:41:22
surgeries. Hope that doesn't happen to you anyway. Okay so I I wanted to I after two weeks ago meeting I went home that night and 01:41:29
I just scribbled down some notes. So I'm going to start with those and then I'm going to give the good news. So I said last one 01:41:37
after last May I says I care about what is happening here in Vineyard and I also care about how it is happening. 01:41:44
Tonight, last council meeting last night, things got contentious with a lot of interrupting and talking over each other. It was 01:41:52
painful to watch and I'm so sad that the reputation over the last few years of Vineyard has gone down. Breaks my heart. But I 01:41:59
wrote a little note. Tonight's meeting was much better. I came worried that it was going to be that sick feeling again and I felt 01:42:07
like things were better today. So I appreciate that there was no interrupting jumping on each other. 01:42:14
Because I think effective communication skills is really important so that we have a sense of community. 01:42:23
I also, OK, so I wanted to say that the transparency plus time equals trust. And I think that is what hasn't happened. And we have 01:42:33
some PTSD going on that is lingering and I and I want to get over it and I am going to get over it. But I, I think that's a lot of 01:42:40
what's happening. 01:42:47
Anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to switch what I was going to say then. I really appreciate the civics lesson. I do think we have 01:42:55
a strong mayor. I do think that there's been more in what happened in the past, but the council members were not. 01:43:03
Well, as I said, they were at peace with what was happening and that wasn't good for the citizenship for me anyway, I think. I 01:43:12
think we need more checks and balances. I really liked what she said. I heard once that conflict isn't bad, it's contention that's 01:43:20
bad. So conflict isn't a bad thing. Usually end up I, I lived in Pennsylvania and there was a lot, I mean, in, in the world that I 01:43:29
revolved in. And I sat in lots of meetings and we always came up with really good solutions. 01:43:37
In our family, we wanted to do an extension for our room because we didn't have a place where we could all eat together and we 01:44:23
thought we had a plan. We had to wait for a couple years because things just didn't work out. So anyway, I just want to have our 01:44:30
community to be somewhat like that as a family where we're making all decisions. So if we can have. 01:44:36
Transparency time will have trust. Thank you. 01:44:44
Thank you. Any further comments? 01:44:52
All right, then I'm going to close the public comments section. Oh, come on up. 01:44:54
Right after you, David Pierce, I'm a resident in the Cascade areas and I have a couple of questions. One is. 01:45:01
If we split the school district, will the method of financing the school district expenses change from what it is now? 01:45:12
As far as methodology and sources. 01:45:21
And the other comment, the other question is. 01:45:25
If the city stops planning. 01:45:33
For the future. 01:45:38
What happens to the city? 01:45:43
What happens to the homes we live in and the services that we expect? 01:45:45
The city to give us If we stop planning for the future because we're maybe afraid that this may happen, where do we go? 01:45:51
What do we do? 01:46:03
The best I think we can do. 01:46:06
Is take the projections of what we. 01:46:09
Believe is going to happen. 01:46:12
What analysis happens? What the projections are for the most possible future? 01:46:16
And those are my comments, my questions. Thank you. Go ahead, Tim. Last one. 01:46:30
So this is brief, but Tim Keaton. 01:46:37
There we go. 01:46:40
I can't see any good reason. 01:46:45
For providing the agenda to the citizens. 01:46:48
A mere 24 hours prior to meetings. 01:46:52
I know other cities try to, they go to great lengths. 01:46:57
To provide information beforehand for a couple of weeks so that people can think about it. Discussions can happen. 01:47:02
Organizations can become involved so that by the time we come to a meeting, people are prepared with comments that they can't do 01:47:13
in a way where 24 hours is all they have. So. 01:47:19
Could we please, please, And I can't see any reason why anybody here would disagree, can we please, please extend greatly the 01:47:28
amount of time that the public has access to agenda items prior to meetings? 01:47:35
I'm going to comment on it and then you can comment on it after I close all the comments. OK, Unless you need clarity for his 01:47:44
comment. OK, thank you. 01:47:48
All right. So let's see the designer of construction being out to bid. My understanding of your question is that it's referring to 01:47:53
the $2,000,000 in the budget. Can you clarify what that is? 01:48:01
And also there was a comment about it being conceptual. So the the conceptual was what was done and we can look back in last 01:48:10
year's budget, but it was substantial. Last construction documents are very expensive. And so that was that was the amount to 01:48:18
budget. Just to make sure that we had enough, we would go through an RFP process or request for proposals. We'd have qualified 01:48:25
architectural design firms bid on it and hopefully. 01:48:32
The number would come in less, less than two million and that there'd be hope just to get it down as much as possible. That would 01:48:40
be for construction documents. So that's ready to build billing permit. We're in the ground building the engineering and all that 01:48:46
stuff will be included with the 2 million. The concept is what we saw tonight. 01:48:52
Thank you. I think just for clarity purposes of the number of 50 million price tag was just. 01:48:59
A Something that Jacob mentioned, looking into the estimated cost that our staff had come up with was or worked with the group who 01:49:07
did the designs as 28 million and it was split and that was split between three groups. So three groups that would be 9.3 and if 01:49:14
it was divided by some other number, it could be anywhere to 14 to 18,000 a million dollars. 01:49:21
I think Marty articulated it well that we want to nail down those questions and Jake did a great job saying how can we itemize 01:49:29
these things and bring it together. So let's before we have any sticker shock, let's get those numbers for what it actually would 01:49:35
be for the community so that we really know what we're looking at. I think that's important. Let's see. So we talked about the 01:49:41
conceptual design is actually engineer designs, price tags, OK, With the school district, there were some questions about the 01:49:48
school district. 01:49:54
We will be talking about the school district. We're not exactly sure how all of those things would change, but we'll talk more 01:50:01
about that during that item. 01:50:05
And then let's see, as far as the hope to get things out there for the public, one of the things that we've been trying to do is 01:50:09
have work sessions. So we present the idea and we put it out for the public so that you can have the discussion. And then we bring 01:50:17
that discussion back again for the actual action item so that you have it for at least two weeks beforehand and you have a public 01:50:26
discussion about it. So that's one of the things that we've been working on. Marty, did you want to add to that one in particular? 01:50:34
I was actually hoping this isn't something that's been some discussion with staff and among the council of putting something into 01:50:44
a resolution to require within our city a policy of getting things out before 24 hours. I think that as I've been talking to 01:50:49
staff. 01:50:55
I think that in the beginning there might be a small adjustment to do that, but. 01:51:02
Being able to put it on to to get an attendance that you know. 01:51:07
Possibly seven days before a meeting, I feel like isn't too big of an ask. I also think that if anything can, we were to need to 01:51:12
add something last minute, it would just there would have to be a special process to that or special conditions. And so I would 01:51:20
actually like to make a motion to put some kind of clarification, something on the agenda where we could talk about that policy. 01:51:28
We already have that on the upcoming agenda. It's scheduled for July 10th. Perfect. OK. 01:51:36
And as we, as we have openings in the budget, I mean in the agenda, we could move it closer if that ends up being available. So it 01:51:46
is there. All right, great. Thank you. 01:51:53
Got a hand? OK, Jake. 01:52:02
Did you have a specific comment? Because I was going to have you do comments during your reports. 01:52:04
With all due respect, July 10th. 01:52:16
Budgeting if it's just a simple. 01:52:21
Policy of getting it posted seven days before. Why can't we just I mean King is that process to vote on that policy that wrong. 01:52:24
I think what? 01:52:38
Well, I know it sounds simple to say, but. 01:52:44
I don't think you want a hard and fast rule of if it's not posted seven days ahead of time, the council can't act on it. There are 01:52:57
emergent things that come up that may not require an emergency meeting or a special meeting, but where you might need to add 01:53:04
something to an agenda to respond to what's happening regionally. The school district conversations a good example of that. You 01:53:12
know, we, we're not the, we're not in the driver's seat, right? We're responding to what other people are doing. 01:53:20
So I think the policy Marty wants drafted would be seven days as the general rule, and then we'd have to identify what the 01:53:28
exceptions are acceptable. 01:53:34
To that, so I would encourage some discussion on it instead of just making a blanket comment. 01:53:39
I. 01:53:49
I think and Mayor, please, please clarify. But I think that there's so many things that we're adding on the budget. I think she's 01:53:51
scheduling them out so that we're not, we don't have too many things. And if you look at our items on our agenda today, we have 01:53:57
like 5 things. I think it's not that many items and we're already 2 1/2 hours in. 01:54:04
Can I make a motion that we put this on next in two weeks just so that we can have transparency, But this is a bigger item. I 01:54:14
don't think anyone would. 01:54:20
I promise to not even talk during your quickening team. 01:54:26
Or there was something that was coming in an emergent situation that would we could add it if we needed to. I think it would be 01:55:02
different. 01:55:06
That's, that's one thought #2 because we've been putting the work sessions ahead of time. So there is that expansive time of two 01:55:13
weeks and, and trying not to have anything come to our agenda for actions that are are big deals where we're putting it in a work 01:55:20
session and then putting it on the agenda. We're double stacking the agenda purposely for this. So it's also public. 01:55:28
There's a decision time, there's two weeks for it to go back to the citizens and then to come. I thought because our agendas right 01:55:36
now are so stacked with obligations, it's difficult to spend time on a process when we have a lot of obligations to get through. 01:55:43
But if, if you're just saying, hey, can we try to get this in motion and start working towards it until we can fit it onto the 01:55:51
agenda. And like I mentioned to Marty, it's those things start clearing off the agenda, then we could add this on earlier. 01:55:58
But I'm just prioritizing according to according to our obligations and the things that you guys also mentioned were top priority. 01:56:06
I understand that. Could I ask the council? I'd like to make a motion to put on agenda for two weeks because I think this is the 01:56:16
top priority because we're talking about the finances, the budget, and I don't think that they should be. The finances should be 01:56:23
dropped for 24 hours each two, it's going to give PTSD. 01:56:29
A massive, massive budget documents. 01:56:36
24 instead of. 01:56:40
You know, getting some days. Eric had a comment. 01:56:44
I just wanted to point out that we have council meetings every two weeks. And at our council meetings, we are getting a fairly 01:56:48
good workload of of requests and assignments that we need to respond to by a subsequent council meeting. And having one week to to 01:56:56
prepare for those will likely either leave us in a position where we aren't producing the kind of material that you're looking for 01:57:04
or we're preemptively or or prematurely submitting stuff simply because. 01:57:12
We only had a week to produce it and so there is a great risk of having. 01:57:20
A7 day mandate when our meetings are so close together that that leaves us with very little time to respond. Well, I think that 01:57:27
we're looking at, we're kind of we're pushing for two conflicting things. We want to have more time before. 01:57:34
The before the OR with the agenda, we want to release seven days in advance and then at the same time we're asking to have 01:57:43
something done ASAP and not giving the staff enough time to OR. 01:57:48
This is what I'm getting out of it, that we're not giving the staff enough time to be able to prioritize items. And so they're 01:57:56
they're asking or the mayor is lobbying for them to have more time and have kind of a good advance. 01:58:02
Plan for our agenda. So I I won't second your motion. I'm not sure if Sarah will. 01:58:09
I, I think I understand why, why Jake's doing what he's doing right, because. 01:58:17
Because when this agenda came out and it's a sticker shock of $2,000,000, right? And people weren't prepared right there, there 01:58:21
wasn't really an understanding. And there's a lot of budget items that are coming up hard and fast, right, So I think. 01:58:29
I mean, I'm OK with July so long as we have public discussions about the budget, right? And there's, there's plenty of time for 01:58:38
them to look at everything like what Sherry Kay said and go over everything line by line. 01:58:46
I I think there's value in hitting the vote on the record that I tried, I'd like a second but. 01:58:58
I also, I also think so we have a first by Jake, we have a second by Sarah. I'll take this time to have a little bit of 01:59:06
discussion. I, I understand what you're saying and I'm going to push back just a little bit in the sense that we're starting a 01:59:13
budget process in the public where we are bringing something that's brought by the staff. We're starting with the public and then 01:59:20
we're going to go through a robust budget process. 01:59:26
Time where you can call in and ask questions. So, umm, anyway, I appreciate that the motion has failed, right? All in favor? No, 02:00:08
no. So it has not failed. It has not gone through, but it is on the record. So thank you. 02:00:16
OK, We're going to hold staff committee reports and mayor and council member reports to the end so that we can get to our public 02:00:26
hearing. I'm going to move to our consent items. Did anybody want to discuss these or can I get a motion for approval? 02:00:32
On the consent items. 02:00:44
Let me shift gears back where we're at, sorry. 02:00:47
Okay. 02:01:02
I would like a brief explanation in our local agreement. 02:01:08
I think I understand the premise of it, but let's pull that one and out. 02:01:13
OK. And this is 7.2. Do you have any questions on 7.1 or 7.3 or can you make a motion to approve those? 02:01:17
I can make a motion 7.1 and 7.3. Here we have our first fight. Jake, can I get a second? 02:01:26
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. 02:01:34
Roll call, Sarah, Marty, I, Jake. 02:01:37
All right, we'll move on to 7.2. This is the approval of an interlocal agreement with Vineyards City and Salem, Orem City and 02:01:44
Linden allowing each city to conduct inspections in this other cities. This is resolution, Resolution 2024-12 and this is bringing 02:01:52
us into compliance with SB185 referring to building inspections, I don't know who. 02:01:59
Chris, would you like to take this on? This is. 02:02:08
For the Utah Code, section 158105 as amended by Senate Bill 185 requires the all jurisdictions have a list of approved third party 02:02:14
inspection firms. The minimum number of third party inspection firms, vineyards required to have this three, and this interlocal 02:02:21
agreement provides those three third party inspectors. 02:02:29
So I think the city is unable to complete an inspection associated with the building permit within three business days. Then the 02:02:37
billing permit applicant may engage a third party inspection firm from the approved list. So if we're going to be able to conduct 02:02:44
an inspection within the three days, the applicant can contact Salem. 02:02:50
Or Linden to. 02:02:57
Conduct an inspection. 02:03:00
The impact is low. Over the past year, the average number of business days to complete an inspection in Vineyard is less than one. 02:03:03
It's .15. 02:03:07
Currently, none of the other cities within this agreement have. 02:03:13
Went over the three day period. 02:03:17
It will be unlucky that this interlocal agreement will impact your inspection levels. 02:03:20
OK. Do you have any questions about that, Jake or anyone from the Council? 02:03:29
So the cities are playing kind of back up to us, like if we can't do it, we'll they'll allow us, We'll use their staff. 02:03:35
Correct. We're required to have this list North City is planning on. 02:03:47
OK, the the the basic statutory framework here, Jake, is there was a proposal before the legislature by developers that if cities 02:03:54
can't complete the inspections within three days, that they could have their own inspector perform the work, a little like the fox 02:04:01
guarding the hen house. The negotiation back from that was that instead of picking their own, the city could create a list and 02:04:09
then they can pick from the city's list. 02:04:16
Instead of using private inspectors, we've found it's more efficient to collaborate with our neighbor cities and they use ours and 02:04:23
we use theirs. This agreement puts that in place. Yeah. What's neat about it is we've done it in the past when our people haven't 02:04:30
had work or other people haven't had work. So it's kind of a something that we've done in the past and are used to. OK, can I get 02:04:36
a motion? 02:04:42
I moved to approve consent item 7.2 as presented. All right, we have the first minority. Can I get a second, second, second by 02:04:51
Sarah? This is done by roll call Jake. 02:04:56
Aye, Marty, Sarah and Amber's excuse. OK, that brings us to our public hearing. Transfer from Enterprise funds to internal Service 02:05:04
fund and we're going to need a motion to go into a public hearing. So moved. Thank you. Marty, can I get a second? 02:05:12
Second, second by Sarah, All in favor. Aye, aye. All right, We're now in a public hearing and our city Manager, Eric Ellis, will 02:05:21
present the recommendations to transfer the funds. OK, Thank you, Mayor. So state law requires that Vineyard City once a year 02:05:29
provide an annual disclosure for funds that are transferred from utility enterprise funds to other funds. So in this case, this is 02:05:36
these are funds coming from water, wastewater and stormwater as well as transportation. 02:05:44
To go into. 02:05:53
The city's. 02:05:55
Internal service fund to cover HR needs, admin facilities, fleet management and information systems. And so this year the total 02:05:57
for that transfer is 803,655. 02:06:04
Other questions? 02:06:13
Are we asking from the public? Yes, we are asking from the public as well. 02:06:16
Guys have questions about this. 02:06:21
Is there any way to stay itemized? Come up to the microphone please and state your name. 02:06:26
It is and your comment. 02:06:35
Karen Cornelius, Village resident. That's a lot of money. So I'm just curious, is there any way to see that itemized? I've had 02:06:39
neighbors talking about that line item on their utility bills and wondering what it was for. And I think that it would be really 02:06:46
nice if we could see how that money is really going, what an itemization of just like we would at home like we heard earlier. So 02:06:53
that would be something that I would like to see happen. Thanks. Karen, did you want to comment on that? 02:07:01
I was just going to point out that the. 02:07:10
The line item version of this was included in the agenda packet, but I could read it out if that would help. So from water 02:07:12
$221,009 transferred into the internal services fund, wastewater 190,584, stormwater $132,050 and transportation $260,012.00. OK, 02:07:22
thank you. Any other comments? I just want to clarify that. 02:07:31
State your name again, Karen Cornelius, fellow resident. I think we would like to see the itemization not of the funds that was 02:07:45
coming out of, but the funds that it's going into. 02:07:50
I'm going to clarify that for her. 02:07:58
Do you want to maybe explain what the internal services? Yeah, well, it says here that it's fleet. 02:08:01
It's some information systems, it's HR. So we would like to see an itemization of those funds that that money is going into how 02:08:08
that's being spent by the taxpayers, OK. 02:08:15
Do you want to explain how that process works? 02:08:24
Think I'll, I will call on you in just a second, don't you worry. 02:08:29
There, that will be included as part of the budget review that Christie's gonna be giving us. Awesome. Thank you. I just wanted 02:08:34
that stated in the record. Awesome. Go ahead, Jake. 02:08:38
We're we're unmuting you, Yeah. 02:08:44
Yeah, this. 02:08:49
I incur with. 02:08:52
Oh, say that one more time, Jake. You're cutting out for a minute. We want to make sure we hear you. 02:08:57
Can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. 02:09:03
Like instead of saying sleep it needs to say. 02:09:08
This F 1:15 This F-150, this F-150 information system, it needs to say survey software. 02:09:12
Cisco 8 computer, 7 phones, these are the phones human resources that needs to say this app or this budget like it. When we talked 02:09:22
about doing budget and we talked about I don't know what number we were setting on $200.00 down to 200 or down to $300. 02:09:32
Just putting in and saying $221,000 for the water fund, it is not broken down enough. I, I did see a transfer of these, most of 02:09:43
these get away from these enterprise funds to transfer as much as they can keep it as small as possible and so. 02:09:53
What can we do to vote to not allow this to happen again policy wise savings so that like is very. 02:10:04
Clear because like right now we're voting. It's like the citizens have no idea what 800 and I mean. 02:10:13
$803,000 is. 02:10:20
Sammy, did you have any? 02:10:26
I I. 02:10:30
Requested with Sarah I believe. Forgive me if I'm wrong about that. Sarah, let me check you were on that to have expenditures. 02:10:35
Over $5000 would mean. 02:10:52
Council approval. I don't have anything for clear delineation of itemization down to the item. 02:10:56
I think it would be your policy on budget expenditures and approval levels for that, that you would look at. That's probably in 02:11:04
the same ballpark as what you're talking about the the fund transfer that is part of this hearing today is a more standard 02:11:10
function of. 02:11:17
Municipal accounting and I don't see anything in how the city is doing it today that is atypical from how every other city does 02:11:24
it. I there's no commitment on how the money would be spent on what you're doing today. That's part of your budget discussion. 02:11:32
OK. So we're just basically moving it into one bank account to the other account. You're not there are there are rules. There are 02:11:43
rules about what balances you can keep in your various funds, and you have to make these kinds of transfers from time to time so 02:11:50
that you don't run afoul of those rules. 02:11:56
Take if you want to discuss it more, I could add it. I could add it to the discussion that I have you down for on May 22nd. 02:12:04
What do you want? Do you want me to add it to that one? 02:12:15
Yeah, this would be one. 02:12:19
Just being very open and transparent on down to $200.00 level. I'm not saying voting on it. I think that's two separate issues of 02:12:24
AFK spending over 5000. It needs to come to us. But I'm just saying for these transfers and everything, we need to get really, 02:12:31
really granular just so that we can show everything right. 02:12:39
OK, I have it. I have added it to that same agenda item that you made that request on. 02:12:47
Any other questions from the public on this? 02:12:56
Come on. 02:13:00
Come on up, state your name where you're from. 02:13:01
Ewing from the Villas. I just, I'm sorry, can you say your name on Terry Ewing? Yes, as in Jr. 02:13:06
Your old nephew known that is um. 02:13:15
It just came up. So we're transferring funds from the enterprise funds to the internal services fund. And then you mentioned that 02:13:18
there's. 02:13:21
A limit on what the funds you can can hold. So where do their excess funds go? 02:13:25
The internal services where they transfer those. 02:13:31
Do you guys want to answer? 02:13:35
An internal service fund. Is overtime supposed to zero out? 02:13:41
But obviously you have upcoming expenses. You may have a small balance in there that you're carrying over, may need to buy a new 02:13:47
truck next year, but the balance is relatively low because of the nature of the fund. We look at what our total expenses are and 02:13:54
we say, OK, HR, stormwater people, they hired so many people, so they used HR services. So what that's happening is they are just 02:14:01
paying for a portion of the HR and again, it's just common. 02:14:09
Umm, services, like I said, we have the fleet, which is all of the transport, all of vehicles that you see going around our 02:14:17
facilities that we own and that we lease our IT. We don't have an internal IT program, but we have to go out. We actually have a 02:14:24
list of all of the computers that will be replaced every year. Now, do I send that list out to the community so that we can go 02:14:32
over every single item? No, I mean, we would be here forever. So I do have that detail. I have how much is being charged. 02:14:40
Each of those items to those funds in fact we reviewed recently with the CPA and outside CPA and he was reviewing our budget 02:14:48
document and he made the comment that our internal service fund was one of the more detailed analysis that he had seen. So I, I 02:14:54
feel like we are doing our due diligence and I'm happy to as we go in and we meet with the council members and individual budget 02:15:01
meetings, we will be going down through the line item detail. I just don't think that's appropriate to do in a public setting or 02:15:07
we would be here. 02:15:14
I understand that. And so they use it or lose the kind of thing, just roll over. You know, it rolls over. But again, the idea is 02:15:21
that you keep it small just so that if you have a few expenses that come up that we're unanticipated, but no long term it will 02:15:27
zero out. Does that make sense? Thank you. 02:15:33
Any other questions, Terry? No, no. OK. 02:15:40
Tim Heaton again, so if you do have that level of detail, what is stopping you from providing that online for public access, to 02:15:44
review, to see the numbers, to see the level of detail for themselves? Why not do that? 02:15:51
By law we are required to provide so much and that is on the transparency website. I just uploaded the the quarter three for 02:16:03
fiscal year 24 last month and that's what we are required to do to show you our expenses. We also have the budget on there, but we 02:16:10
do not need to go down into the line item D, but you know, maybe we could do is put a link to that because we're already putting 02:16:18
it out there. I think that's yeah. So my she's not addressing my my specific question. 02:16:26
Which is not What does the law require, which are bare minimums? 02:16:33
My question is, what is stopping you from providing the level of detail? There's no law that says you can't do it. 02:16:39
Not what the law requires. I want more than that. And we have the privilege to do more than that. Nothing stopping us from doing 02:17:22
more than that. Let's do more than that. Yeah, thanks, Tim. I thought you meant what she was stating was on the transparency 02:17:28
website. Is the detail that you were saying, is that right? Just for clarity, Transactions, Yes, but he's asking for line item 02:17:34
budget detail, correct? That is not finalized. So we have projects that we're still discussing. So I would be happy to do that 02:17:40
after we have approved. 02:17:46
Approved the final budget. 02:17:53
If that's the case, they can be labeled as such and then when the numbers are finalized, they can be labeled as such and that way 02:18:30
there is no confusion about the provisional nature or the final status of the numbers that are provided. Thanks for those 02:18:35
suggestions. 02:18:40
Did you have a comment? 02:18:46
Yeah, Christy, I just want to say I appreciate the question. Another. 02:18:50
One, I wanted to say if we know the total dollar amount of $803,000? 02:18:57
You're probably just grabbing that in the Ledger or Excel sheet and then column of what it actually is. So it's just that's what 02:19:06
I'm asking for is when we do this staff report and moving it. 02:19:13
And maybe you do say it's 800 and 306 subject to change, but this is what currently is. 02:19:20
That's what that's what I'm asking for. OK, subject to change, but this is 50,000 is. 02:19:29
I feel like we're asking for a lot of details being like kind of put in different places. And I don't want to create a lot of busy 02:19:38
work if we can figure out a way to make it uniform so that we're not monopolizing time. So I really need to do that so that we're 02:19:45
not like. 02:19:51
I just don't want to add unnecessary work, but I do want the public to have information. I just think we have to figure out a 02:19:58
balance here where that we're not. 02:20:03
I think to just point of order to stay on topic, I like what you're saying. And what if we take what you're doing and put that 02:20:10
inside of that policy discussion for the next meeting? Can we do that? 02:20:14
All right. Anything else from the public that's sitting here at this time? OK, I'm going to close a public hearing. I need a 02:20:20
motion. 02:20:24
I move to close the public hearing. First by Marty, second second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 02:20:29
Thank you. OK, Council, do you have any questions? 02:20:41
Jake, do you have any additional questions? 02:20:46
No, just a comment. I just don't think I could ever vote on something so high level without, you know, like you know, I want the 02:20:50
citizens to have this type of form. You know, we can advance and have the 803,000 itemized set up so they can see it, so that 02:20:57
they're coming to a meeting here to be able to look at the item. I think it gives me feedback for the council member. Until then, 02:21:04
I just wouldn't support, even if it is just a one fund to another fund. 02:21:12
Movement so I just do those businesses in the most kind nice way. I would I would vote for OK, thanks Jake. This is a public 02:21:19
hearing for comment regarding the recommended transfers. But today no actions going to be taken by the council. So I appreciate 02:21:25
your comment. 02:21:31
All right. We will move to discussion in action 9.2, Proposed tenant fiscal year, tentative fiscal year 2024-2025 budget and our 02:21:38
Finance Director, Christy Bayless will present this. 02:21:44
Thank you. I first wanted to review and the budget calendar. 02:21:57
So that everyone is aware of the process that we go through as a city. 02:22:03
That our process to create this budget actually started back on February 21st when I was three weeks into this job and we met with 02:22:08
the council and the directors and we talked about priorities and what they wanted to see happen in this budget season. 02:22:15
Then in March, I started looking at revenue projections. I have been following the sales tax and and property taxes very closely 02:22:23
so that we can have accurate. And again this is projections. Remember when we talked budget, it's all projections. We're doing our 02:22:29
best guess as to what we think is going to be happening. 02:22:34
And then in March, I spent two weeks meeting individually with each director in their department, where they were able to come and 02:22:41
give me all of their asks. Now, when it comes to government budget, if I could give every department everything that they needed 02:22:49
to to work just smoothly, and I could give all of the community everything that they wanted, it would be wonderful. 02:22:57
But what we have to do is try and give you the best bang for your buck. And so like I said, we met with the directors, we came up 02:23:06
with their asks, and then we took those asks along with the priorities from the extra budget session that they had with the 02:23:13
council and we tried to mesh those into something that can be adopted tonight. Again, this is just us presenting it. So by law, 02:23:21
the first meeting in May of the City Council, the tentative budget has to be presented and accepted. 02:23:29
And in two weeks, on the 22nd, we will be having the public hearing where we will be able to discuss it. But between now and then, 02:23:37
Eric and I will be meeting with each council member to go over their individual asks. At that time, they will be seeing the detail 02:23:45
that we've been talking about. Again, all of the projects that council wants and all of the projects that staff wants, it's not 02:23:52
possible to do. And so that's why I'm a little nervous about putting that out there. 02:24:00
I would rather wait until we have a final budget so you know what the actual projects are that we are that we are considering. I 02:24:07
did want to mention that you should have gotten right before this meeting, Council members your quarterly report for Q3, for 02:24:14
fiscal year 24. I'm sorry that it was late. 02:24:20
I'm sorry that my goal is to have it the first day of the month following the end of the quarter. Now next time we would be doing 02:24:28
that would be August 1st, but I'm going to ask to not have to do that until August 15th because we will be coming up on year end. 02:24:34
And so it would take a couple extra weeks just to get everything finalized. But I will be emailing you another quarterly report 02:24:40
and we'll do that quarterly going forward. And then if you have, if you can review it on your time and if you have questions then 02:24:45
reach out to me. 02:24:51
So let's take a look at our budget for this next year. Again, this is projections. 02:24:58
You can see year over year our budget has gone up, has gone up, has gone up and this year it is not going up. And again that's 02:25:07
we've talked about the economy that we're living in the way things are and we are very cognizant of that. We are trying to keep 02:25:14
our general fund at a healthy place. And so we've had to do things a little bit different this year. But if like I said, you can 02:25:21
see our total budget, our total budget amount is not actually going up. 02:25:28
This year. 02:25:35
This is our general fund. These are all of the revenues, just to clarify. 02:25:37
When we talk about sewer, stormwater, transportation, those are enterprise funds and we'll be going over those budgets here in a 02:25:42
second. Enterprise funds are meant to be self-sustaining so that they it's ideal that you don't have to transfer general funds to 02:25:50
cover those expenses. We want them to be self-sustaining, making their own revenue covering all of their expenses. The general 02:25:57
fund is where all of the taxes come in and you can see the other revenues that are listed here. 02:26:05
Building permits, recreation fees, business licenses, all the business that the city conducts, the fees that are listed and 02:26:14
associated with that are listed here in the revenue. 02:26:19
This slide shows all of the expenditures that we are anticipating for fiscal year 25. It breaks it out by department and percent 02:26:27
of total expenditures. 02:26:32
I'm going to give you a minute to review that and if there are any questions I'd be happy to. 02:26:39
OK. Next, I'm going to go to the water fund. Again, this is an enterprise fund, so ideally we want it to sustain itself. The blue 02:26:48
is the revenues and the yellow or orange, excuse me, is expensive. So obviously we want the revenue to be more than expensive as 02:26:55
we go forward so that it can sustain itself. 02:27:01
Wastewater. 02:27:12
The same situation now you can see that we did make an adjustment and we are tracking to where we will be able to sustain this 02:27:15
fund on our own. This is what we want to see so that we don't have to use general funds to supplement these funds on these 02:27:23
enterprise funds. Sorry. The next one is the storm water fund. You can see here, we have got a huge shortfall, but I think you're 02:27:30
all aware that we are currently working on a master plan and that will address and hopefully help to correct. 02:27:38
Some of this where the revenues are not enough to sustain and and pay for the expenses and then have a little bit of a cushion. 02:27:46
Same thing here with the transportation fund. We are in the current, we're currently doing a master plan for that. And again, this 02:27:54
is something that once that impact fee study and master plan is complete, we should see a correction in these numbers. 02:28:01
Here is the internal service fund that we were talking about briefly earlier. You can see that there is no increase going from. 02:28:10
24 to 25. In fact, there's actually a decrease. 02:28:19
A big part of that is we have started leasing vehicles instead of buying vehicles. And so the total cost per year has gone down. 02:28:24
Hey, Christy, do you mind pausing just for a second? Jake has a question for a comment. Yeah. 02:28:31
Go ahead. 02:28:38
Hey Christy, this looks like 5 minutes ago. Oh, sorry. 02:28:40
Can you say that again? You just, you just cut out for a minute? 02:28:50
Sorry, can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. 02:28:56
I understand that we have all of these apps and requests that make it like there's no way we're going to be able to pay for those 02:29:01
things. 02:29:05
But from a. 02:29:11
From a City Council and also a citizen standpoint, just understanding the financial asks of everything to see this is everything 02:29:14
that's out there is extremely helpful. 02:29:19
Hi to everyone to say hey as we cut it. Yeah, I know we're not going to. 02:29:28
It's not going to hit the final budget. 02:29:35
But it really does help people to prioritize things and approach in City Council member like, hey, they're asking for paint a 02:29:38
field or they're asking for soccer. They're like, I don't want to post it because that might not be in the final budget. So but it 02:29:44
might be helpful because then you see how little it is and they can say, well, actually that's kind of a prior to me. Let's keep 02:29:49
that on and cut something else, you know. 02:29:55
Jake. 02:30:01
Well, my anticipation is that you will be interacting with the citizens and as we meet with you and we go over this over the next 02:30:06
couple weeks, that you will be their voice. I obviously can't sit down with each individual citizen and talk about what they think 02:30:11
we should do. 02:30:16
And so I'm counting on you to represent them. 02:30:21
And again, that's why I feel like it's important that when we meet with you, we go through the line item details because not 02:30:26
everything is going to get approved. In fact, the budget that I'm presenting tonight will be completely different than what is 02:30:31
approved at the end of June. It's just that's the reality. 02:30:35
No, Jake. 02:30:45
Take the. 02:30:48
The packet the Vineyard City projected, well, no, but it's on the website as well. But I think, I think some of our concern is. 02:30:51
I mean, yeah, I mean, they already have access to it. People can look through it and you can see there, I don't know how many 02:31:01
pages of this. 02:31:05
33 yeah. So I think what you're asking for is already available. 02:31:10
I don't know. 02:31:17
OK, continue. 02:31:19
OK. 02:31:21
And this is just as we were talking about the internal service fund, this is where the revenue and expenses come in. This is the 02:31:25
breakdown that you were asking for earlier. You can see that the general fund has the largest contribution to the internal service 02:31:32
fund, but that's because it covers so many different departments, Parks and rec and finance and city manager, it covers so many 02:31:39
departments and that what that's why they have a higher percentage of the revenue that comes into the internal service fund. 02:31:46
Expenditures, you can see it broken out by the total expenses that are anticipated for next year. Again, this is just our best 02:31:55
projection and it is broken out by the number of vehicles that each. 02:32:01
Fund needs and the number of computers that are going to be replaced in each fund. And then the HR is done on a percentage of 02:32:08
total payroll so that we can say the general fund has this percentage of total payroll. And so that's how we apply the HR costs. 02:32:17
So it there is a method to what looks like madness to you? 02:32:26
Then the last one I wanted to talk about is the capital projects. This is something you're going to see something this year in the 02:32:33
proposed budget that you don't usually see and that is a transfer from capital projects into the general fund because we have 02:32:41
overspent and need to pull some of that fund back in to make sure that we have a healthy balance in the general fund. 02:32:48
These are just the proposed projects that are listed here on this page and the next page. And again, I expect these projects will 02:32:56
be very different at when it's all said and done. There will be some that are no longer on there. There will be others that have 02:33:03
been added that are not currently on there so. 02:33:09
Any questions on that? 02:33:16
Any questions? 02:33:19
Go ahead, Jake. 02:33:23
I think my concern is that a lot of this is still. 02:33:27
Miscellaneous 50,000. Miscellaneous 30,000. 02:33:34
Or meetings. 02:33:39
And it's a very just large numbers with no visibility of poor memberships in the final budget. Are we going to get details of like 02:33:42
fiscal World Trade Center Utah membership and this is the car and. 02:33:48
This is the 40,000 food we've been spending this high level. 02:33:56
Marty, did you have something? I, I was just saying it, Jake, you're asking for something more granular, right? You're asking for 02:34:03
something that you want to break down of. 02:34:07
Like, are you specifically asking like on capital projects? Are you asking for just everything in general? 02:34:13
Just just because I went through it in the last couple of days, it's still extremely, you know, some of the departments actually 02:34:21
increased in size, they're miscellaneous budget and it's like. 02:34:28
OK, I thought that was something we didn't more often wanted it very granular or meetings increased as well from what the letter 02:34:36
showed was it was just a bunch of food going out. So it's like doesn't really help us understand. I'm I'm all for employee 02:34:44
leading, you know, and having some parties like what parties are we improving and not and there's really very high level. 02:34:51
Jake, at our recent training down in Saint George, this very same question came up. And the point of a City Council is to set 02:35:02
legislative priorities and a budget that is then managed by a city administrator. And, and I get that there's a desire to dive in 02:35:12
and and look at the granular, but that is really the job of the city administrator and your job as a City Council is to determine. 02:35:22
Where do we want to allocate funds? 02:35:33
If we're talking public works, where do we want to allocate funds within public works? But but the specific details, we don't know 02:35:35
all the meetings, we don't know all the specific memberships that that is one of the jobs of the city administrators to is to 02:35:43
review those requests by department heads on a, on a case by case and make an informed decision with prudence based on the the 02:35:51
guidelines of the budget that has been set forth by the council on a on a specific basis. 02:35:59
And and if and if that was what the council wanted to do that what that would be a an administrative dive that that really isn't 02:36:07
the place of the City Council to be doing well. And additionally, I'm going to add to that. We additionally I'm gonna add to that 02:36:14
we do have the discussion for kind of what you're talking about for May 22nd. 02:36:21
To come back and you had talked about kind of wanting to dive into that policy. What if we save that discussion for that time and 02:36:30
as you guys are working individually making sure you can get what you need and if you don't have it what you need by the 22nd, you 02:36:35
can always discuss that with the Council. 02:36:41
Something your determination and then they can guide that policy can can we save that for that meeting? 02:36:47
Yeah. I mean, that's when we're going to dig into it, right? My only perspective, I understand that throughout the year, I, I 02:36:56
don't get, I don't get to micromanage the administrative side of the. 02:37:02
Hotels and travel around the world and stuff. This is my only time legislatively during the budget to see it. And so I, I would 02:37:09
push back and say I better see it, you know? 02:37:17
Detailed in order to approve it because this is my only time I don't get to micromanage you. I only get the opportunity now and I 02:37:27
feel like I have a right to granularly see it. So we'll talk about this on the 22nd. Thanks for your comment, Jake. All right, 02:37:32
continue. Continue, Christy. 02:37:38
Is that it? That's it, OK. Any additional comments on the tentative budget as it is? 02:37:44
That's tentative. I don't know if I saw that. No, I would just encourage you, Jake, to make sure to maybe make a goal to meet with 02:37:52
Christy so that if you have questions that maybe could be answered, like if you want to get more into the granular, it definitely 02:37:59
will take more time. And so I definitely think it'd be worth you setting up an appointment to sit down and see things. 02:38:07
We do need to make a motion on this. Yeah, I'll motion. 02:38:16
Go ahead, Marty. 02:38:21
I motion to approve. Hold on. 02:38:26
The proposed tentative fiscal year 2024 Dash 2025 budget as presented. OK, we have a motion to adopt by Marty, so I get a second 02:38:31
by Sarah. Any discussion? 02:38:38
If not, I'll do this by roll call. Oh, go ahead, Jake. 02:38:46
I only discussion similar to the RDA. I would never vote even on that sort of cut the budget unless it was fine item to be able to 02:38:50
do for my own, you know? 02:38:55
And just for the record, you mean more so than what's in the budget packet right now? 02:39:02
Yeah. 02:39:07
Understand meetings and food and. 02:39:11
Travel. You know on what you're what you're projecting to be doing, right? 02:39:14
Mayor, can I make a quick legal note? Yeah. So just just to so all the council members are clear what you're voting on today is 02:39:20
approval does not mean their acceptance does not mean approval. Acceptance means you've received it. You have it. This is the 02:39:28
tentative budget. There will be no approval until you approve the final budget. Yeah. And you're not agreeing with it or agreeing 02:39:35
that you've seen everything that you need. You're just accepting it in general. It's still your choice. 02:39:43
I could agree with that somewhat, but I think it's accepting it in the level of transparency that we would want it to be accepted. 02:39:51
I understand that. Okay, All right, Sarah. 02:39:57
Yesterday. 02:40:04
OK, Marty. Yes, yes, Jake. Amber is excused. All right, we'll go on to 9.3. This discussion in action was related to the Alpine 02:40:05
School District redistrict redistricting meeting that happened between Orem, Vineyard, Linden and Pleasant Grove. They have been 02:40:13
discussing an interlocal opportunity. There were a couple school districts. The school district had a few cities that went into 02:40:20
some interlocals and it left these four cities to have a discussion. 02:40:28
I'm going to let Marty, who's been doing a really great job representing, representing us as a council, to lead out on this 02:40:37
discussion where she can recap for you, if you weren't able to follow along, what some of the outcomes were of that discussion we 02:40:44
had with the interlocal discussion. And then additionally, she attended a meeting that Alpine School District put on to have a 02:40:51
further discussion on finances this afternoon. 02:40:58
And then we can have a quick discussion and and we'll go from there. Go ahead, Marty. There's a lot in this discussion just even 02:41:05
in the meeting this afternoon, there's a lot. But just to recap. 02:41:13
Alpine School District put out a went into a study. Results were provided with several different options. The school district is 02:41:26
in the is currently in the process of researching these different options and putting it onto and potentially putting on a 02:41:35
recommendation or an option that they think might be best for the district for our community. 02:41:43
Overall throughout the district to vote on. 02:41:53
Alongside that process, there's a new there was new legislation that was passed where cities can actually go into interlocal 02:41:57
agreements to create their own school districts. Now, the law is still something that everyone's trying to completely understand. 02:42:05
There's a lot of questions that still need to be answered or a lot of, I guess, unknowns just in this process. 02:42:13
And So what has currently happened is Saratoga, Eagle Mountain, Cedar Valley, and forgive me, there's another small town out 02:42:22
there, Cedar Fort. 02:42:27
Oh, did I take? What are they? 02:42:33
Oh, Fairfield and Cedar Fort, they went into an or they are beginning the process of going into an interlocal agreement. All four 02:42:37
cities out there voted to to start the process. And then in the same breath we have a central, so that's called our W option. In 02:42:46
the central location. We have Lehigh City, Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills and American Fork that have signed or that have voted to 02:42:54
start the process of looking into and going into an interlocal agreement. 02:43:03
Both of those proposals or resolutions would go onto the ballot if approved within the timelines they have to meet and those would 02:43:12
be left for the citizens in their areas to vote on. So in consequence to both of those proposals, it leaves Vineyard, Pleasant 02:43:20
Grove, Orem and Linden in a potential school district. Whether we have the we have the option to go into an interlocal with these 02:43:28
three other cities or we have the option to not go into an interlocal. 02:43:36
And we could still end up as a school district depending on how the other two interlocal agreement proposals pan out. On top of 02:43:45
that factor, as I stated before, Alpine School District still has the potential to add on to the ballot a question or an option 02:43:52
that they think is best to potentially split our district. So there are so many moving parts. And last night we got together as 02:43:59
four city councils. 02:44:07
It was, it was one. It's the wonderful people. I've really enjoyed the process getting to know. 02:44:16
All the city councils from Orem, Linden and Pleasant Grove and what it's sounding like. 02:44:21
We have a, we have a, we have a need as a council to discuss. 02:44:28
Our desires whether or not to go into an interlocal with these other cities, but we kind of are tied. Our hands are a little bit 02:44:36
tied because Pleasant Grove and Linden have both publicly, well, Pleasant Grove has voted. 02:44:44
They will not go into an interlocal. So if an interlocal was created, Pleasant Grove is officially. 02:44:52
Out Linden has stated that they do not have interest in going through an interlocal, but they could and they have not put a vote 02:44:58
on their schedule to go into that or talk about it as a council publicly. So that leaves and then Orem, a split council. From what 02:45:05
I can understand you, it seems like part of their council would like to enter into an interlocal agreement and part of their 02:45:13
council wouldn't. So that leaves Vineyard and as a council we need to discuss. 02:45:21
That. 02:45:29
If. 02:45:31
Would have to schedule that meeting so we could vote on that and it has to be done by next Friday if we want to have the 02:46:10
opportunity, even though nobody might want to do it with us. 02:46:15
Noting the outcomes of that discussion. 02:46:59
There was a lot of information yesterday that was helpful, so I talked to Marty today. We have a teaspoon of information to make 02:47:08
this decision right And the most important thing. 02:47:14
I feel like is that we get all of all of the information out as best we can and then get it out to the public to see what you guys 02:47:21
how what, what you feel. 02:47:26
Like what you would like to see happen because it's there's people that feel really strongly in both ways, but I think education 02:47:32
is power. So, so we get the pros and cons to to both right A2 way split or the interlocals. And just I think what, what Mayor 02:47:40
Young said was if we, if we decide to do an interlocal, it gives us time. 02:47:49
Is that right? He did say that, yeah. So, yeah, because if we were to vote to start an interlocal, which like I said, we'd have to 02:47:58
make sure other cities would want to do that with us. But if we were to decide to start it, that would start the 45 day process 02:48:06
where we would have two public hearings and then we would get to research. We'd have to study it more as well, right? 02:48:14
So yeah, it does give you time to study it as a community. Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see. 02:48:23
Yeah. The pros and cons of an interlocal, I think it sounds like it could be good. So I guess the mayor's point is do we want to 02:48:32
just pick, because if the deadline's next Friday and no one else goes into it, then it's, do you agree that we wouldn't need to 02:48:38
vote on that? 02:48:44
Right. Not if not, if nobody invites us to the party. So maybe we put a tentative special meeting on the calendar close to Friday. 02:48:51
And if anyone else goes into it, yeah. 02:48:58
Does that sound like we can have that discussion? Additionally, I apologize I have like a mint in my mouth, my throat was itchy 02:49:04
but I just want to point out too if we don't go into an interlocal. 02:49:11
The sentiment was to ask the school district to create a survey. 02:49:20
That each community could send out and collect data from on what residents want to do to help their decision because. 02:49:26
Not only pending what we do, but no matter what we do, they have to make a determinate determination on July 12th and whether or 02:49:36
not they'll put initiative on their ballot. And so they'll make the decision that day. And so really understanding the pulse of 02:49:42
our community is something that we need to capture either way. 02:49:49
Did you have a comment or would you, should we just make a motion to go into A to retain that date? OK, go ahead. 02:49:57
I just think that this is really unfortunate. 02:50:08
I I, I feel like in that meeting there was some. 02:50:13
Bad feelings that we were walking into and. 02:50:19
Looking to the history of you know, or splitting without with ASD and watching that require not being at the table. 02:50:27
As in two years ago, a year ago. 02:50:37
And watching them argue over data and then ASD refusing they're not wanting to get over. And then the numbers shifting and 02:50:40
changing. 02:50:46
I think that opened up Pandora's box across the county. And I think that argument really, you know, Washington DC governments go 02:50:53
back and forth between opened up the eyes of the West side and and then obviously the bond not passing. 02:51:02
Has really helped the West side see the finances and they're not going to get schools. And so, you know, the West side voting 02:51:13
unanimously. 02:51:17
Across their six is a very strong message that they know financially it makes sense to them because of the bond. 02:51:23
Now seeing the central vote unanimously as well. 02:51:31
And I, and I think it has to do with trust all ten of those cities asked ASD, are you going to put something on the ballot? And 02:51:38
they perfectly well could speed up that decision and make some commitments and say we are going to commit to putting a two or 02:51:45
three-way split on the ballot, but they don't want to. Well, actually Jake, oh, wait, wait, let him finish. 02:51:52
Especially with the board's public comments of if they have their personal desire, they would prefer notebook to have them any. I 02:52:01
counseled by board members and said that in public meetings. 02:52:08
And so my my thing that I don't want for Vineyard to happen is to see what has happened in Orem of the city versus an organization 02:52:16
stronger together where there is just this pity each other. 02:52:24
And what I saw yesterday, you know, when I asked that question of Pleasant Rd. OK, so you know, you've got these ten cities. What 02:52:33
is your plan? And and their response goes, well, I'm going to get politically important to get involved. And I I, my heart just 02:52:40
hurt because I was like you, you as a Pleasant Grove City are going to go and get involved politically within the cities of 02:52:47
American Fork and Lehigh. 02:52:54
I just thought, OK, so we're gonna, we're gonna argue this out and and and I just don't think that's the role of another city to 02:53:02
go to another border. I mean, I could, I could have paid it with another city came in and we voters say this, we're gonna go, but 02:53:09
we're gonna go and get to your voters and, you know, change, change that vote and so. 02:53:16
So that's my first comment. Can Marty respond to you? She had a comment. See your comment. Yeah, there's a, there's a few points I 02:53:24
need to make sure to share because they're important. ASD is planning on voting on May 14th. I believe that they say 14th. I 02:53:32
thought it was 12/1 of those days. So it's before the deadline for the other cities. They're planning on having their vote to say 02:53:39
whether or not they would put something on the ballot and what it is. 02:53:46
And so that that is happening, yeah, that's the date I was given. And if I'm, if I'm wrong, no, no, I thought you meant July 12th 02:53:54
for the finals, but you mean no, that's May 14th. Is the preemptive, is that what you're talking about? 02:54:01
And then they would go through the process and then they would submit it to the county by by July 12th. So I think that's 02:54:10
important to recognize that that next week they are going to be sharing their intent with us. 02:54:17
Be it however their council or their board votes. And then another thing. There's two other things I want to address that you 02:54:24
said. There is one important thing that I wanted to make sure the public knew. 02:54:30
Jamie, could you answer the question lease, revenue bond? 02:54:37
Does that go on a ballot or is that something a board could vote through? 02:54:42
Do you know? 02:54:47
Anyone. 02:54:49
Yeah. So the school district, I guess I'll explain what she's talking about, the two different bonds, one that that one that 02:54:52
failed on the ballot and then the additional that could be put in without a little more detail on. So the context of it is I 02:55:00
attended a meeting today where they discussed, they discussed numbers that were incorrect from the MTG study that the school 02:55:07
district hired and they were fixing everything. And then they added some extra slides and said. 02:55:15
Now listen, no matter what happens like split option 3 for whatever happens, there's still this possibility of an A lease revenue 02:55:22
bond going through for 2024 that would get Saratoga Springs. I don't know how many 100 million, I have it in my notes, I'm sorry. 02:55:30
But there is a large bond that would be put that could be pushed through with the way I see it. And what would happen is we would 02:55:38
be splitting. 02:55:46
That cost with a split. So I said that really poorly. I apologize. So I think I understand what you're saying. I I can get you an 02:55:54
answer. The rules for school districts are different than the rules for cities. So I need to do a little bit of research to make 02:56:00
sure. So if that bond happens. 02:56:06
And splits happen, then the debt of that bond will be divided. 02:56:14
And 20% of that debt goes with Saratoga Westside School District and then. 02:56:20
80% would go to either a east side school district or a, you know, 40-30 something split, 40 something to 30 something split 02:56:27
between Lehigh Central District and what would be the, you know, they call it EI think we're South of the four cities. And I think 02:56:34
it's important to pay attention to what Marty's articulating because what she's saying is if they vote on that bond before the 02:56:41
interlocal splits occur. 02:56:49
Then even with, well, once the interlocals occur and the school districts are split, the bond wouldn't matter because each 02:56:57
district would go into it by themselves. But if like you're saying, they vote on it in 2024, what Marty is saying really well is 02:57:04
that that bond becomes all of our shared debt. And so even if they interlocals occur and three districts happen, they divide that 02:57:11
like a marriage. 02:57:18
And so the important, the importance of this is to say when you're going to the school district, if these interlocals are 02:57:26
occurring, if an initiative is going to the ballot, you wouldn't necessarily want to pass a bond that then gets divided between 02:57:33
however the mapping works out at the end. And that question I can't answer because a lease revenue bond on like a general 02:57:40
obligation is tied to specific facilities and the payments on those specific facilities. 02:57:48
So however they're divided up and moved around, those obligations would remain in some form. 02:57:56
And I think one thing that I want to note just for the record, because I think that the narrative and I'm sorry, Jack, I know you 02:58:03
have another comment. 02:58:06
Umm, this goes hand in hand with Pleasant Groves. Umm, your comment with Pleasant Grove. I don't agree with Pleasant Grove's 02:58:11
desire to get involved with Lehigh Central proposal. Umm, I don't condemn them for it either. I'm just saying that I would choose 02:58:19
not to be that just because I understand Lehigh's desires to split. And I respect that. They have their reasons and I respect that 02:58:27
whatever we decide, we have our reasons. But I do understand that there are. 02:58:34
Pleasant Grove is deeply affected by all of this and so their their choice to go on the offense and attack politically. 02:58:43
Is frankly their choice. 02:58:53
The can I add to that? Yeah, I would say, and we'd have to go listen to the minutes. But I feel like what I heard was when you 02:58:55
asked do you want to do nothing? And they said what we want to do is take action by doing nothing and that we want the school 02:59:02
board to make the decision. 02:59:08
I don't know if their intent was to say they were going to rally and breakdown the initiative of Lehigh rather heavily support the 02:59:16
initiative in a ballot item that Alpine School District put in. I think to say any more than that from what I remember would be 02:59:23
out mischaracterizing them. But we would have to read the minutes, you know, and I think that's a fair statement. I I don't ever 02:59:31
want to speak for them. And so I thank you, Mayor, for that clarification. 02:59:39
And then I will say lastly that at the end of the day, there's two mangoes I have for not only Vineyard City, for the entire 02:59:48
school district is there are children in need of new facilities out on the West side. And there is a circumstance where we might 02:59:56
have to help pay for it. And I know it's not great and I'm deeply concerned about the tax burden to our community, but I am also 03:00:03
deeply concerned about children not having a place, a safe place. 03:00:11
To learn and so I think that there is a huge balance here in in all of the things happening but my number one concerns as a 03:00:19
representative for Vineyard City Council is what can I do to help our students have continued good high value education, high 03:00:26
standard education while keeping our tax dollars low and so. 03:00:33
To move forward on any position, I would need proof that this would be the best step for both of those circumstances. OK, go 03:00:42
ahead, Jake. 03:00:47
Thanks for taking time. 03:00:54
That's how I took it. We're going to go and the comments after the meeting and what they were going to be organizing, I was like, 03:00:58
I just don't think that you guys don't go into Lehigh America or you know, but. 03:01:11
But my, the other thing though, is it comes back to trust, you know, when, when Aura, when sorry, when AFD gave data that wasn't 03:01:25
good and it was corrected. And even today, like in talking to ASD again, had to correct their data, they were off by 20 million 03:01:35
today, right? Or 18 or 20 million on having to correct the numbers for the West side in, in today's meeting in which category? 03:01:44
Are we legally keeping the door open and having an option? 03:02:40
Especially because the legislature is for the county what they didn't even know what government body was going to rule it to 03:02:45
agenda. If two items are on the vote, which one supersedes? Is it the city supersedes the school district or not? And so I was 03:02:55
just so disappointed because it was like, wow, I would love to have oxygen on the table as data changes and. 03:03:05
I think the discussion really involved a couple things. You had a group that was saying, hey, let's be proactive in sending a 03:03:51
message that we want a three district split and let's send a message saying that we're going to act in this direction because this 03:04:00
is what we feel is kind of best. And the other group was saying, hey, I feel like it would be better for all of us if it was 03:04:08
Lehigh down to Orem and if we take the stands to. 03:04:17
Enter in this interlocal because we're leftover, then we're sending a message for the July 12th meeting that we're OK with a 03:04:26
different option than the option 3, which was the two split. And since they had a desire for the two way split versus the 03:04:33
three-way split it they were taking a proactive approach and not sending a message. Because when you do 3 interlocals as was 03:04:40
discussed, it's these preemptive interlocals that kind of sends a message across, you know? 03:04:47
If you guys want to continue this discussion to to bring more things forward, I think it's good and I'll turn that time back over 03:06:07
to you, Jake. But otherwise, we could make a motion. Jake, go ahead. 03:06:12
So I I filled a phone call from a very large group out of Lehigh today that called me that is pro toothless and they were so angry 03:06:18
that was so funny. There are their thought was that taking their local from a group like Pleasant Grove that is for two doing an 03:06:28
interlocal would allow the four cities to come together to do a study to show better data. 03:06:38
To that would back up a two district slip and there they were really frustrated that there isn't a good local agreement between 03:06:49
the four and a study Commission because they felt like Pleasant Grove and Orem that is the their council is. 03:06:59
Pro tea waistlet right So they can put some data together to. 03:07:09
Three ways, but we wouldn't be agreeing to study not a two way split and that would cause. 03:07:54
No to go into an interlocal agreement. 03:08:01
Study this freeway, but we also want to understand the finances of A2 way we still could do that. 03:08:07
You just want to have the opportunity to go into a three if you thought it was relevant, but if it was 3, then you could go into a 03:08:15
2. But I think we've exhausted the point and I I think we have an opportunity to do it again. 03:08:20
Next week, if that opportunity comes to us, what if we make a motion and we belabor it then? 03:08:27
Eric, did you have something? 03:08:36
Comment is this is that? 03:08:38
I love the comment from pleasant room with the ladies that I don't sit on the school board. And I would echo that as well. I don't 03:08:41
sit on the school board. I don't cancel. And this type of massive decision should be involving 50, a hundred, 200 citizens just 03:08:48
within venue. They're really, really well educated. And I wonder if doing a Zoom town hall, Marty, you're the leader of the 03:08:56
education sentiment of like next Tuesday. You could. 03:09:03
Have a human a you know, and, and have people from maybe you, you were there and I'm there. I think it would be very helpful to 03:09:12
say this is being thrown on us and we're we didn't do zoom like Tuesday night or something like that. I think it could really show 03:09:19
that we want to gather and just say, come and talk to us. Come and talk to us. We just want to hear your voice. We want to hear a 03:09:26
different perspective would be very helpful. 03:09:32
I purposely didn't want this. Our town hall scheduled over the next two weeks and I'm in full mom mode with soccer, baseball and 03:09:41
in school year. I know I need to. I would love to engage the community in it but I can't commit to next week without missing some 03:09:48
important things. Well I can say this if if they offer us to go into an interlocal and that's what the council decides, you'll 03:09:56
have 45 days to really take have the time to talk to our residents if that's the case. 03:10:04
OK. And Marty, did you confirm next the 17th? I thought it was the 11th. 03:10:52
We could go back and look at the attorney, he said. Next Friday. Next Friday, Jake, is that what you remember in that meeting when 03:10:58
they attended? 03:11:03
Is it? 03:11:10
It looks like it is the 14th. 03:11:14
And we would only have Monday or this Friday. 03:11:17
Yeah. 03:11:24
All right. 03:11:26
So presumably Monday Friday is the deadline. 03:11:28
From a city that wants partner. 03:11:33
Oh, please make your comment. 03:11:40
And then just for clarity on this Friday is when we would receive it. We can reach out to those cities. I'd be happy to do that or 03:11:43
happy to have staff do that. And then we take that deadline. And if that's the case, we will notice it for Monday. 03:11:52
And how about we keep 6:00? 03:12:01
I think her parents that's too early. 03:12:06
It's too early for parents. 03:12:09
I think that's true. They're just getting them out from other activities and trying to get. 03:12:11
Oh, thank you. That was from Karen. She said she felt like that was too early. I apologize for not having that on the record. And 03:12:16
what I will say to that is this, this would just put us into an opportunity for an interlocal. I think between that time, each 03:12:22
council person can go out to their people and their constituents and go look for it. And then we can do something broader after 03:12:29
that. So can we retain this time on everybody's schedule? OK, if that is the motion, that would be Monday at 6:00. 03:12:36
OK, now that motion hasn't been made. Marty, you had a comment. I'm OK. Marty's OK. OK. I need motion, though. 03:12:45
I'm going to say something. 03:12:57
I feel like it would be disingenuous to not share that I have a lot of concerns with starting the process of an interlocal. 03:12:59
And I, I do feel that that Alpine School district, I'm looking forward to hearing from them more, as in Sid Lemons comments she 03:13:08
was saying. 03:13:13
Her intent in that statement was saying that she feels that it's best in the hands of the school district. They are voted by their 03:13:19
constituents to be handling school district needs and this new legislation has changed and put in a very complicated decision that 03:13:27
I've been studying for 2 1/2 years. It constantly has ever changing numbers that it's hard to get a specific on. And so I do not 03:13:35
love this new legislation and I feel that leaving it in the hands of Alpine School District is how. 03:13:43
It should be and so I just wanted to be, I wanted to be forthcoming and sharing publicly that I am against and then a local but 03:13:51
knowing that my council might not feel the same way as me. I respect the process and I would be willing to meet and obviously 03:13:58
discuss this further. Great. Is that a motion? 03:14:04
To potentially have a special session on Monday May 13th. 03:14:13
Sarah seconded. All in favor. Aye, All right. 03:14:56
It's really late, but if you have something that you've been working on, Marty, you belabor jurors and the really positive 03:15:02
belabored way, you know, just like the next meeting. But do you have anything else to add? No, no, thank you. Okay, Sarah, Jake, 03:15:07
do you have anything to add? 03:15:11
Yeah, we went through the process. 03:15:18
I would like to engage the right department on travel policies, the food, miscellaneous and vehicle and rewriting those. Is anyone 03:15:23
leading that effort there that I take the first stab at it with meeting with Eric and and the staff to make sure we have the right 03:15:31
policies. OK, so right, right now I have. 03:15:39
Identified travel budgets. Review per diem policy. Review hotel policy. 03:15:48
Looking for potential savings in unneeded software and review how often vehicles leave the county all being worked on to present 03:15:53
to the council to then go into something more detailed at that point. But that is all going to be coming forward. And then if the 03:16:00
council wants to move forward with additional changes or if you want to add to that, what I can do is I can schedule you into 03:16:06
those meetings. Would that work for you? 03:16:13
Yeah. 03:16:21
If those are going to be done before we do the budget, yes, that's just like I told you, those we're going to put that along with 03:16:24
the budget. Yeah. So I have all of those prepared for you. 03:16:29
I didn't see a date on this budget in my last working session requesting the World Trade Center and aerospace beyond this meeting. 03:16:38
Did you put a date on? Yeah, So I sent an e-mail back to have the quarterly reports and the World Trade Center reviews started or 03:16:45
implemented right now. And then I have it on. They're going through and they're going to assess all of those details and get them 03:16:52
all together. And then as soon as that's done, I will put it on an agenda. 03:16:59
And I said a deadline for the meeting, the first meeting in August. But if we clear time, I can bump it up and if the work has 03:17:06
been done by our staff, I'll bump that sooner. Does that work? 03:17:13
These are budget items, so we would need to discuss these in the budget, right? If you, if the City Council was going to add 03:17:21
anything to the budget on them, we could. Since there's no request for it going in, we don't need to. And if there was something 03:17:27
further that could happen with it, it could go through an amendment. 03:17:32
So I just thought that would workout timeline. 03:17:39
Well, I would like. 03:17:43
To make a motion that we do this before the budget on both of those aerospace and. 03:17:48
Yes, we do have a different presentation. You have wanted to review policy and costs and benefits and it's going to take some time 03:17:55
to get those things together. 03:18:01
So I thought that was a little bit more robust than just having some people come in and talk to us. If we can schedule something 03:18:09
out in between that time and it fits on the agenda, I'd be happy to put that on. I have all of your priorities outlined and I 03:18:14
will. 03:18:19
Set it up in priority and send you things and ask you which ones you want to rotate off. 03:18:25
Two different council. 03:18:31
Utah membership started in April. 03:18:34
So. 03:18:37
Chances of getting a refund or diminished weekly on full refund? 03:18:38
OK, I see your ask. 03:18:43
I will discuss internally with staff and then come back to you on that. Is that OK? 03:18:47
Yeah, I'm just gonna bring it up weekly until we get this. Yeah, I, I appreciate that. And then we can talk about your priorities 03:18:54
and see which ones we can put on. So. All right. 03:18:59
Moving on the next day, David Pearson. 03:19:08
We do have that visitor, our constituent, with us today. 03:19:12
David reached out to me, the Goodman he is, and he brought to my attention a cement for picking your Blackhawk or cement into the 03:19:17
water basin. Can we? 03:19:22
Describe it later, but I agree with him as well. I think he grabs water basin is overflowed parking at Grove Park dysfunction 03:19:29
really well. I believe it was 1.2 million or 1.5 million. I don't know if you talked about it, but there was a, there was a 03:19:37
request from council. So each of us received that letter and we are really excited about receiving it. But there was a request 03:19:45
that he mentions it at the next council meeting when we talk about the budget versus extending tonight's meeting. 03:19:53
Would that be OK? 03:20:01
It's past his bedtime. 03:20:04
For the record, that was from David Pierce. 03:20:07
Make sure you get that. And then he asked a question about methodologies and, you know, whether we split or not in the school 03:20:10
district colleges in the state of thing. The thing that's different is I've worked with the surplus warehouse in State Street for 03:20:18
18 years. For public group, we will need to be potentially building a bus garage and a administration building either two or 03:20:26
three, you know, plus size. So the methodology would stay the same, but they would. 03:20:33
Need to do bonding or something for those additional buildings. So taxes would certainly be come up without us on that and no one 03:20:41
would help. That's what's so scary is the cloud over it. And then his third question, which was planning for the future. I, I 03:20:49
agree with him planning for a City Hall. You know, the side of the 87,000 square foot one. I agree with definitely planning. I 03:20:56
mean, I think my uncle's and father started to plan for the City Hall 15 years ago. 03:21:03
It's just more of not stopping the plan, but just when is the time when you actually build that there's one of the say you don't 03:21:11
stop, but. 03:21:15
And then we already talked about the 24 hours. 03:21:20
Agenda, My only request is we need to like even tonight the RDA slide or the change of government slides that JBUS or the City 03:21:24
Hall design slides. It's just so helpful when we put together a city packet that not only is the notices and everything, but just 03:21:31
these are the slides that are going to be presented because so many people will review before and come a better question. So I 03:21:38
would like to have part of the policy and that's all I have. 03:21:45
Um. 03:21:54
We are adjourned. Thank you for coming tonight. 03:21:56
Thanks guys, love you all. 03:22:01
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Yeah, we're good. 00:00:00
All right, we're rolling. We'll go ahead and start our Vineyard City Council meeting. It's Wednesday, May 8th, 2024 and the time 00:00:05
is 638. 00:00:10
And we will. We're going to pull something up from Item 8. It's one of our appointments. 00:00:15
Our finance department recently underwent an interview process for our new treasurer and the City Council was all able to meet 00:00:24
with the interview the interviewee, Zachary Adams and we had a great time meeting him and I I want to give some time for our. 00:00:34
Finance director to come and introduce him before we make that appointment tonight. Thank you, mayor. We had a lot of great 00:00:44
candidates that put in for this position and it took us weeks to review them and meet with the different candidates. As the mayor 00:00:52
mentioned, HR and Eric, all the council members myself were able to interview all of the candidates and to decide on the best 00:00:59
candidate for us. Zach Adams comes from three years at the State Tax Commission. 00:01:07
And so we are really excited to have him here. I don't know if he wants to come introduce himself briefly, but like I said, we're 00:01:15
excited to present him as our a recommendation for treasurer. Thank you. I felt really great about meeting Zach. I'm sorry to put 00:01:22
you on the spot. You got invited up so. 00:01:28
Come on up though, we're excited for this introduction. 00:01:36
Nice to meet y'all, I'm Zach Adams. I'm from American Fork. 00:01:40
I started my professional career with KPMG 1A Big Four, worked there for two years and did personal and business taxes for almost 00:01:45
a year. And then I've been at the State Tax Commission for three years as a sales tax examiner, going business to business, 00:01:53
meeting everybody and finding out how our community and intertwines and how everybody, how everybody lives. So I was very excited 00:02:01
to hear back on the second and third interviews and I hope I can be a good addition to the team here so. 00:02:08
Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. 00:02:16
Well, like I was saying, and thank you for taking the time to come up. I have snuck back there and said, do you want to say any 00:02:18
words? And but I convinced Chrissy right before this that I thought it was a good idea. So well done. Well done everybody. Anyway, 00:02:24
we're very excited that you're here. Council, do you have any questions? Otherwise, I just would love some support and a motion 00:02:30
for this appointment. 00:02:36
I move to approve the Mayor's appointment of Zachary Adams as Treasurer as presented. 00:02:44
1st, I'm already second by Sarah. Any discussion? 00:02:49
All right. Seeing as there's none, I just need an approval. All in favor, aye? 00:02:54
OK, and Andrew is excused. Thank you so much. And because you're here, Andrew even said a few words. We're going to have you come 00:03:02
up and we'll swear you in. 00:03:06
I. 00:03:22
Tyrone Adams having been appointed district, Have you been appointed as the Treasurer? Solemnly swear, Do solemnly swear that I 00:03:29
will support, obey, and defend. That I will support, obey, and defend the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of 00:03:36
the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Utah, and the Constitution of the State of Utah. And then I will discharge 00:03:42
the duties of my office, and then I will discharge the duties of my office with the with fidelity. 00:03:48
Congratulations, you're welcome. 00:03:55
Welcome to the team. 00:04:02
All right, we will return back to the proclamation for declaring that May 5th, May 11th is in 2024 as Vineyard City Drinking Water 00:04:04
Week, and I will be signing that proclamation and they'll be posted for you to read. We'll move into our work session and we're 00:04:11
going to start out by having a discussion on forms of government and our City Attorney, Jamie Blakesley will lead us in that 00:04:18
discussion. 00:04:24
Thank you, Mayor. 00:04:32
A few different council members asked to have a discussion on forms of government and what the options are that are available to 00:04:35
the city. 00:04:39
If it wishes to change its form of government and if it decides to do it, what process would it follow to do it? And what are the 00:04:44
differences and between the different options? I want to give just a little bit of a preamble about my role in this kind of a 00:04:51
process. And this is information a little bit about the city attorney. Generally I, I get asked from time to time. Well, you 00:04:59
represent me. I'm a city official, just not engineered, but just in general. 00:05:07
And my answer to that always is no. 00:05:15
My role as a city attorney as I represent the entity. 00:05:18
And so I represent the city and I take direction from the council as a whole. 00:05:21
Because the council controls the legislative, administrative and executive functions within the city, The mayor then is the chief 00:05:28
executive and I will provide her advice in her role in that capacity. And various council members have roles within the council 00:05:35
and I will advise them. And the city manager and staff have roles within city government and I will advise them. But it's not my 00:05:43
job to represent anyone person as an individual. 00:05:50
Or anyone office as an individual. 00:05:58
And so I've taken an attempt in preparing this presentation to be neutral as to. 00:06:01
Any of the people that might be involved or affected by this kind of a choice and to take the role seriously that I represent the 00:06:07
city as an entity. And in some ways that means in representing the entity, I represent the citizens that live within the city and 00:06:14
I care for what occurs within vineyards when it be done well. 00:06:21
A lawyer's role is a little bit interesting because when the council is making decisions or the voters are making decisions, my 00:06:29
job is to provide the best advice I possibly can. And that includes advice on what is the law, but it also includes advice on 00:06:37
based on my experience and the risks and the details in a situation, what are the ways it can go wrong or go sideways or be 00:06:44
difficult. 00:06:51
And I'll provide my best advice. 00:06:59
And then always try to recognize that the decision is not mine to make, and once I provide that advice, I have to let go of it. 00:07:02
And once a decision is made, my function shifts a little bit from advising on what the decision should be to supporting the 00:07:11
decision that's made and helping it to be successful and effective. And I have practiced a lot over the years in that way. And 00:07:18
that's the approach that I've taken to this. The other thing I need to mention, just as preamble, is that a lot of the information 00:07:26
PowerPoints don't provide a place for footnotes. 00:07:33
And I, it's important to cite your sources as a lawyer. And so most of the historical information that I'm going to talk about is 00:07:41
from the Treatise on Local Government Law written by Roger Camp. It's called Forms of Local Government. It has a lot of academic 00:07:48
information, historical information and legal information that I've drawn from in putting this presentation together. And so when 00:07:55
I cite facts about historically how forms of government have been formed, succeeded, failed. 00:08:03
All of that it's taken from that reference. They're not my own ideas. So let me jump into the presentation the. 00:08:11
A big decision like this I feel like you can't make unless you know where you are and in in to know where you are, you need to 00:08:18
know where you came from. And then you can chart a course and figure out where you're going. And so I'm going to talk a little bit 00:08:24
about the histories of city government and then I'll talk about where we are as a city, and then I'll talk about the options going 00:08:30
forward. 00:08:36
And for the history of city government, United States government is based on the English common law. And so a lot of our 00:08:43
structures, even city government structures, you can track all the way back to. 00:08:49
Old England where you had boroughs and you had cities and they were forms of government that were self-sufficient and they began 00:08:55
really with direct democracy. So you had every citizen had a vote that transitioned eventually to where you had a representative 00:09:04
democracy of a sort where instead of every citizen they would elect somebody. 00:09:12
Cities in the colonial revolutionary era and before. 00:09:21
In England and when there were colonies, they didn't provide services like cities do today. They regulated industry and they 00:09:26
regulated the natural resources that the cities would draw upon to support themselves. 00:09:33
They largely had unicameral councils. It's a fancy legal word for one legislative body. They didn't have a house and a Senate, so 00:09:42
to speak. They just had one big body that was in charge of what occurred in the city. The body was elected, but not everybody 00:09:50
voted. You know, today we enjoy elections where anybody over the age of 18, regardless of gender, regardless of property, 00:09:57
regardless of station or position or education, gets a vote. 00:10:05
In their system, it wasn't that way. They were elected by Freeman, and then once somebody was elected, the vacancies on the 00:10:12
councils were filled by the remaining members. 00:10:17
And they served for life so much more like what we think of with judges where once they're appointed, they're they're there 00:10:23
forever. 00:10:27
But the other interesting thing is once you've created that, legislate that council. 00:10:31
It repopulated itself without going back to the citizens that it served. 00:10:37
So this is a really detailed slide that I'm not going to read, but when we talk about direct democracy, we often think of that as 00:10:42
the purest form of democracy. 00:10:47
Voters get a say. It has some history. We have examples of it working, but it mostly works only in small communities. And that's 00:10:53
because you you can't do long range planning. It's hard to educate all the citizens adequately. It's it's a better system if you 00:11:00
have individuals that are. 00:11:06
That set apart their time, their effort to represent, educate on things and to be able to make decisions a little bit quicker. 00:11:13
And they had real attendance issues in their councils. All of these slides will be public after this, and anybody who would like a 00:11:22
copy of the presentation can get it. 00:11:26
Then the United States becomes a country, right? We revolt from England. We form our own entity. If you think at the time, there's 00:11:33
a real aversion to having kings and councils and and different. 00:11:40
Entities in charge and you have AUS constitution that's established that has a bicameral legislation. We have a Senate and the 00:11:49
House cities begin to mimic this. 00:11:54
States assume control. States charter cities and many cities decide, just like the federal government, we're going to have two 00:12:01
legislative bodies. They have one. 00:12:06
Body that's an upper house. The upper house is elected at large and then they have a lower house that was elected by wards or 00:12:13
districts, and then within the houses or the wards the mayor is selected. 00:12:20
By them. 00:12:27
The some examples out of Boston, you have a directly. You then transition to a directly elected mayor instead of a mayor that's 00:12:30
chosen by these different organizations. The dual council role, not surprisingly, in city government, doesn't function very well. 00:12:37
It's really burdensome. It's cumbersome. Where you have the people elected by wards and districts, you get a lot of infighting. 00:12:44
I'm not going to give something to your neighborhood unless you give something to mine. 00:12:52
Your neighborhoods at that time are mostly ethnic enclaves, and so it made for a lot of fighting among different groups. And then 00:12:59
the control at the upper house tended to be to have a lot of graft, a lot of them giving contracts and services and things like 00:13:06
that to their friends and associates and not to others. 00:13:13
This is what we often call a weak mayor system. 00:13:22
That if the council has the control, the mayor's chosen largely by the council again, it you've lacked strong leadership. That 00:13:27
vacuum often leads to machine politics, things of that sort that don't function well. 00:13:35
In the 1820s, from 1820 to 1900, you start seeing a change more toward a mayor council, a Commission form of government with a 00:13:43
strong mayor, a strong mayor. 00:13:49
Cities at this point in time start transitioning where they provide more services and so it's less about allocation of resources 00:13:55
and and begins to be about how do you provide municipal services. 00:14:01
In Brooklyn, as an example, in the late 1800s, you begin to have big construction projects. This is a picture of the Brooklyn 00:14:08
Bridge they're building that. They begin building that in about 1880. 00:14:14
And you need a mayor that can manage and govern a large infrastructure project. And so you begin in cities like this to be to see 00:14:21
a little bit stronger role in an executive so that cities can carry out those kinds of public works. 00:14:29
With a directly elected mayor, where you see these types of characteristics, that this is what historically is called a strong 00:14:38
mayor government. You have a strong leadership with centralized responsibility. You can form policy, create big projects, 00:14:45
implement things. But the disadvantages are that if you have too much responsibility in one person, it's difficult to check their 00:14:52
activities and know what they're doing. 00:15:00
The mayor also may not be a professional administrator and so you see with some mayors that functions well and with other mayors 00:15:08
it doesn't function well. 00:15:12
So in Galveston in 1900, a hurricane hits. This is a picture of that image. And they're the first city to transition from a mayor. 00:15:17
Council form of government to a Commission form of government. And so they have essentially a council that's about a half dozen 00:15:28
people, each individual. 00:15:32
Each individual, each person on that council is assigned an area of responsibility within the city and they're given all the reins 00:15:38
to be able to carry out that function. So you would have one council member and you would you would say you're the council member 00:15:43
over public works. 00:15:47
And you're the one over planning and you're the one over transportation. And within that realm, they function almost by Fiat and 00:15:53
are able to carry out their obligations and their duties. 00:15:59
The this can work in emergency situations. It can work because you make fast decisions if you're the only one responsible for that 00:16:05
duty. It's a really simple organizational structure, but there's no coordination or cooperation. 00:16:13
And there's a problem when you have the legislative and the policy functions held only by one party or one person. 00:16:21
And you don't have anyone person you can point to to be responsible for. 00:16:28
The overall administration of the. 00:16:33
Of the government. 00:16:35
The other difficulty they ran into is if you're reelecting or electing somebody that has a certain area of responsibility, it's 00:16:36
hard to find another person with that same expertise. 00:16:42
So from 1900 to 1920, you begin seeing a lot of cities tinker with different options. They they start separating politics from 00:16:49
administration. And so you begin seeing council manager and you'll have a City Council and they'll hire a professional manager to 00:16:55
handle the administrative and sometimes the executive functions of the city. And some of the things on the right hand side that 00:17:02
you begin to see is stronger, stronger executives, different size councils. You start seeing a mix of at large and by water 00:17:09
district. 00:17:15
Appointments and you begin seeing a lot more nonpartisan elections than what had existed prior. 00:17:23
The first city to do a council The first notable city to do a council manager form of government was Staunton, VA. 00:17:30
So there are some advantages to this. You begin to introduce professional training and acumen into how the city government 00:17:37
functions and performs. The council retains control, but you can run a city a little bit more like you would run a business and 00:17:44
and have in a council manager. It would function a lot more like a board of directors and ACEO. 00:17:51
But what you have with this is the CEO lacks any political acumen or political directive because they're not elected. It's the 00:17:59
council that's elected. And you can't have managers that are strangers to the city or looking after their own career instead of 00:18:07
the interests of the the city as a whole. And so from 1920 to 1960, you begin seeing mayors come back into the equation and you 00:18:14
have a mayor council form of government with the chief administrator officer. You'll see this begins looking more more like what 00:18:22
you see in Utah City. 00:18:30
As you get to this point in time after World War Two, you have huge economic booms or growth, you have the baby boom and you 00:18:38
suddenly need massive development of transportation to support that growth and all of those individuals. And so in San Francisco 00:18:44
in 1931, you see them introduce a form of government that's a mayor council form of government, and they hire a chief 00:18:50
administrative officer. 00:18:57
The mayor and the council set the agenda. The mayor is the political leader and the executive in the city. The chief 00:19:04
administrative officer carries out the administrative functions of the city. 00:19:08
From. 00:19:15
And so from 1960 to 1980, you begin seeing a lot of different variations in how this occurs. You also begin having a national 00:19:16
civic league that begins establishing model city charters that cities can pick up and borrow from to figure out how to go about 00:19:23
doing their things. And you can see on the bottom right that the percentage of cities that go to a mayor council with the Cao 00:19:31
increase dramatically. 00:19:38
So we now find ourselves in an era of hybridization, and you see a lot of different varieties of city governments throughout the 00:19:46
country. When you hear people talk about strong mayor, weak mayor, usually what they're talking about is executive authority with 00:19:53
the mayor that's elected directly. Being a strong mayor or a weak mayor is that the City Council would appoint the mayor, and the 00:20:01
mayor performs largely administrative functions, not executive or council functions. 00:20:08
So I've been here, finds itself in a bit of a hybrid place and I'll talk a little bit about the options under state government, 00:20:17
but what you'll see is. 00:20:22
That states charter cities, and it used to be that you get a charter, an actual charter document that would establish what the 00:20:28
city is, what its form of government is. 00:20:32
The way Utah does it, and the way most states now do it, is that they will charter by legislation. 00:20:38
And so we have legislation that sets out the options for municipal governments in Utah. There are three choices. I'll get into 00:20:44
them in a few minutes. But the form of government that Vineyard currently has is one of those three choices and it's called the 00:20:50
five member council form of government. 00:20:56
The mayor is elected directly she chairs the council. She votes as a voting member of the council on all matters before the 00:21:02
council. 00:21:06
She is the CEO to whom all employees report. She appoints the officers, the city manager and the department heads. 00:21:12
This is done with advice and consent of the council. So it's not the appointment right is the mayor's. The council has a role in 00:21:20
voting up or down the mayor's appointments or removals. 00:21:27
And the Council has both legislative, administrative and. 00:21:34
Functions in both of those areas, they pass ordinances, they can remove or delegate powers from the mayor. There are certain 00:21:43
categories of things that cannot be removed from the mayor, but other than those, other than that small group of things that are 00:21:49
listed, which are legislative or judicial powers. 00:21:54
Ceremonial functions, chair of the council or any ex officio positions. Ex officio means positions that come by virtue of her 00:22:01
position as mayor. So an example on that is the Mountain Land Association of Governments has a board that's comprised entirely of 00:22:08
mayors from the cities that are within its service area. And so that type of thing would be an ex officio position. Whoever's in 00:22:16
the mayor's seat would always be vineyards representative on that board. 00:22:23
The council appropriates funds that sets the budget, the council supervises the performance of the executive and the 00:22:32
administrative duties, and the council appoints and removes the city manager and manages the city manager's performance. 00:22:39
So looking ahead. 00:22:48
If Vineyard, for whatever reason, we're not happy with the five member council form of government, it has two other options it can 00:22:50
choose from. 00:22:55
Here are the three options that you have. We currently are the five member council. You could also choose the mayor council form 00:23:01
of government. This looks a lot like the federal government you have. 00:23:07
A City Council that only legislates. 00:23:13
And you have a mayor that is both the executive and the administrative officer. 00:23:16
A president of the city, so to speak. 00:23:22
And there is a distinct separation between the functions of the City Council and the functions of the mayor. They don't overlap, 00:23:24
and there are some things in state law that prohibit the council from interfering with the mayor's business and vice versa. 00:23:33
The six member council looks almost exactly like the five member council with one key distinction, and that's that the mayor 00:23:43
chairs the council but doesn't vote on most issues. 00:23:49
The mayor will vote to break a tie, the mayor will vote on the appointment of the city manager, and the mayor will vote on any 00:23:56
ordinance change that affects the powers and duties of the mayor or the city manager. And other than those items, the. 00:24:05
Mayor would not be a voting member of the council. They would run the meeting, have a voice, help set the agenda, but largely 00:24:14
function as the chief executive officer. But the split of duties and the interaction between the mayor and the council is. 00:24:21
Really, in all significant respects, the same for A5 and six member council form of government. They look really similar. They 00:24:30
appear similar in most meetings. You really can't tell the difference until it comes time to vote and you realize, oh, the mayor 00:24:36
didn't cast a vote, they just called for it. 00:24:42
So a few slides based on the advantages and disadvantages of the three Utah forms of government and. 00:24:50
On the Mayor Council you have a clear separation of powers, you have clear checks and balances, you have elected representation. 00:24:58
Just as you doing off, you have elected representation in all of the Utah forms there. There really isn't a form available under 00:25:06
Utah law that doesn't have some checks and balances in place and that doesn't have you as citizens represented by an elected 00:25:12
council and an elected mayor. 00:25:18
On the mayor Council, I tend to think of it as a recipe for constant conflict you will see in mayor Council because there's bright 00:25:26
line separation between legislative and executive and administrative roles. 00:25:33
That. 00:25:41
Cities tend to get things done with quite a bit of conflict and quite a bit of tension. The mayor may or may not be a professional 00:25:42
administrator, and so you will get some mayors that are better at that job than others. 00:25:48
There is no separation between the political and administrative leadership. And so you get a mayor who's administering city 00:25:55
services often with a political bent to the way they go about doing that. And then one big disadvantage is you do have to 00:26:02
duplicate some of your staff. So in council mayor forms of government, there is an executive budget and there is a legislative 00:26:10
budget. And so both group, the mayor and the council will often have. 00:26:17
Legislative officer, they both often will have a clerk or an administrative function. They both often will have their legal 00:26:25
counsel and you may also see an administrator on both sides of that Ledger. And so if you pull apart the budget for council, 00:26:32
mayor, forms of government, they're spending a higher ratio of their tax revenues on. 00:26:40
Administrative and personnel expenses than the other two forms. 00:26:48
A6 member council form of government has it this some of the same advantages you have political responsiveness and representation. 00:26:54
You elect your mayor, you elect your council members. 00:26:59
It does allow for your administrative functions to be depoliticized. So you have a city manager typically that will carry out the 00:27:06
administrative functions of the city. And so if you have questions about water, sewer, roads, waste, core city services, you can 00:27:14
often go to the administrator. You don't have to go and get a political solution to those kinds of issues. 00:27:22
It tends, and this is in my experience and observation toward cooperation over conflict. 00:27:31
The way this form of government gets things done is by coming together, not by being opposed. 00:27:37
And the tenure of the city administrator is determined by merit and responsiveness. So if the if the administrative functions are 00:27:43
not carried out to the liking of the City Council, they can find another person to handle that function. Some disadvantages. As 00:27:50
with other forms of government, you may not elect professionals and they may be poorly suited for the jobs in front of them. They 00:27:56
may also be very qualified and very well suited. 00:28:03
There is inherent tension in how to allocate the administrative authority among the council, the mayor and the city manager 00:28:12
because all three, under this form of government, may have some of that administrative authority. 00:28:19
There's also an advantage with that because you can tailor it to fit your city. 00:28:26
And you're not tied to a. 00:28:31
Certain delineation of how it occurs, and then the other disadvantage is if the council and the mayor retain. 00:28:33
A lot of the administrative functions, then it can be politicized in the same way it is in the council mayor form. 00:28:41
5 member council again is almost identical to the six member council. The one difference is the mayor votes. 00:28:48
And the one disadvantage that is a little bit different on this list is the one on the very bottom right, which is the Open and 00:28:55
Public Meetings Act presents some challenges for how the mayor works with the members of the council. Because the mayor and the 00:29:03
five member council form of government is a voting member of the council. Anytime they're with two other members of the council, 00:29:10
you have a quorum. And if you have a quorum, you can't meet except in a public meeting. And so those. 00:29:17
Small meetings that need to occur to coordinate. 00:29:25
To work on complicated issues, a big project for example. 00:29:28
Is it on schedule or we have this particular aspect of it? We want to prepare information to bring forward in a public meeting. 00:29:34
The mayor can only do that work one at a time with members of the council. We're under A6 member council where the mayor doesn't 00:29:40
vote on those items. The mayor doesn't count when you're calculating a quorum and so there can be some, there can be more of that 00:29:46
informal liaising with. 00:29:51
Council members on how they do their functions. 00:29:58
One thing I forgot to mention on the mayor council form of government, when you vote on that, you can do A5 member council or A7 00:30:01
member council and so you'll vote. You would vote both on the form of the government and how many members you would want to have 00:30:08
on the council. The six and five, you have 5 voting members of your council on both of those. So how do you how does it happen if 00:30:15
you want to change? 00:30:22
The form of government. There's two ways it can begin. 00:30:30
The City Council can adopt A resolution or the voters can file a petition. 00:30:33
It has to occur at least 75 days before the general or the municipal election and so on. The two blue arrows. I've split that out 00:30:38
into 45 and 30. 00:30:44
And I did get to that. 75 S the council adopts a resolution or voters filed for a petition and gather signatures. 00:30:50
The council has 45 days to hold at least two public hearings on the topic from from when the petition or the resolution occur. And 00:30:58
then after those hearings, you would hold your election, your elections at the normal November date and the election would be 00:31:05
about do you want to change to the form of government? You have to identify on the ballot what form of government you're aiming 00:31:12
for. 00:31:20
You can't say do you want. 00:31:27
AB or C you have to identify one. 00:31:30
And then they would vote up, the voters would vote up or down on that. And then you would transition to what happens after it's 00:31:34
voted in. Assuming it passes, it doesn't take effect for another year. So you with the timing of where we're at right now, if the 00:31:42
council were to adopt A resolution, it would go on the November 2024 ballot. The the voters in the city would vote yes, we want it 00:31:50
or no, we don't want it, whatever form it is that's put forward. 00:31:58
And then if they vote yes, we want a change in government, you would then vote for the officers. 00:32:06
At the next election, which is the municipal election in fall of 2025, those new officers would be sworn in in January of 2026. So 00:32:14
none of this would take effect immediately. And I guess the reason I share that and why it's important is if you look at how your 00:32:21
council is currently composed, you have two members of the council that were just recently elected the four year terms. Neither of 00:32:29
them would be. 00:32:36
Affected by this change, but your other 3 voting members right now, the mayor and then the two other seats. 00:32:44
Would both be up for re-election anyway in the November 2025 election? That's I guess, a point of caution of if the only reason 00:32:53
you're contemplating the change in government is to try to accelerate your opportunity to vote on members of the council, it 00:33:00
doesn't do anything for you in that regard. 00:33:07
The state law is written in a way where if you change form of government, council members have a choice to remain council members 00:33:14
under the new government. And so anybody currently in their seat would continue in that role. And your election of officers for 00:33:21
the new government would occur at exactly the same time as when it would occur for you already. So you wouldn't have any changes 00:33:27
in that way. 00:33:33
What does it mean for Vineyard? So the the mayor and the council and the two council members that would be up for re-election 00:33:41
would see out their current terms. Those that are not up for re-election would still see out their current terms. 00:33:48
The new mayor and council members not elected until the next municipal general election, as I mentioned, and the earliest it can 00:33:57
change is January 1, 2026. 00:34:01
So what are what are my takeaways? David Church, who was my predecessor in this role and who advised the Utah League of Cities and 00:34:06
Towns for the longest time, when he would present on this topic, he would always lead with why do governments exist in Utah? Why 00:34:12
do city governments exist? And he always gave three reasons. And they're they're a little humorous in the way that he phrased it, 00:34:19
but he would say city governments exist first and foremost to provide services. We need water, we need clean water. We need 00:34:25
sewers, we need roads. 00:34:31
We provide services at our core. 00:34:39
The other thing that we do is we build communities. We try to bring people together. We want the places we live to be meaningful. 00:34:42
We want them to be the kinds of places we want to raise our children and enjoy. We hold events and fairs and festivals. We do 00:34:48
things to make sure it's clean and cared for. 00:34:53
And then the third and he would say the least important reason to have a city is so you can tell people what to do, right. We 00:35:00
wanted to find our land use and tell people what they can and can't build and what things should look like. We want to enact laws 00:35:06
about how people behave in public spaces and how they whether they clean up after themselves and, and take care of their property. 00:35:12
And so. 00:35:18
Those are the three things in Utah primarily that cities are enabled and empowered to do listed in order of importance. So with 00:35:26
all of that in mind that we've we've gone through. 00:35:33
This summary is you really have a set menu and there's only three choices. It's important to recognize the historical aspect of 00:35:41
how we got there, but we're we're ordering from a set menu and the only significant difference between the five and six member 00:35:48
council is whether the mayor votes. 00:35:56
When you think about do you want one of those two or a council mayor form, this is my advice only. 00:36:04
Council mayor invites conflict, the five and six member council forms of government invites cooperation, and I think that pretty 00:36:13
fairly plays out throughout the state when you look at those different forms. 00:36:19
The processes for the key decisions that the council makes are set by statute. They don't change based on your form of government. 00:36:27
So when you think about taxing spending, which is budget and land use. 00:36:36
All of those have set procedures that every city in the state has to follow, and those procedures are the same. 00:36:43
Whether you're A5 or A6 member, council form of government or whether you're a council mayor form of government, they don't change 00:36:51
at all. And your voice and your rights and who makes the decision on those things is the same regardless of the form of 00:36:58
government. And then on the right hand side, the thing I would highlight is that many of the things that we often associate with 00:37:06
the changing government really aren't. The current council has the authority to make changes now. 00:37:14
They can adopt rules and regulations for the administration, organization, operation, conduct and business of the city. They can 00:37:22
allocate the powers and duties of elected and appointed city officers. They can create offices that they think are necessary. They 00:37:30
can oversee the executive and administrative functions of the city. And you can tailor your ordinances right now to do the kinds 00:37:37
of things that you want and to allocate those. 00:37:44
Duties and and obligations how you want them. 00:37:52
No, no, Mr. you require. 00:38:26
I think I think the studies wise on some aspects of it, especially if you were to move to. 00:38:28
A council mayor, but. 00:38:34
There's. 00:38:37
One of the things I maybe don't like about how the state law is structured is it's a little bit of ready shoot aim in in how it's 00:38:39
structured because you vote on the change in the form of government. And then after that change occurs, the council begins working 00:38:46
to reform its current ordinances to match what it wants it to be. And if you go back to this slide, lots of the decisions you're 00:38:53
going to make. 00:39:01
When you change the form of government are all in that right hand column and you can already do those things. So it doesn't really 00:39:09
change a lot of that unless you go to the council mayor forum and then you are drawing bright lines. But a lot of those are 00:39:16
already drawn for you by statute. So if you're only thinking about a change between the five and six member council, I think what 00:39:24
you're really voting on is do you want the mayor to have a vote on the council or not. 00:39:31
Everything else is really the same and the Council authority is the same. 00:39:39
Did you get a chance to figure out cost of if we did put it on a ballot, what kind of is it just mostly cost from the recorder, 00:39:46
but it's, it's essentially the same cost that you would for any item that you put on the ballot. And it's, it tends to be a 00:39:53
minimum of 15 to 20,000. Do I have that ballpark right? 00:40:01
Is that? 00:40:13
Is that consistent like? 00:40:14
For example, I don't. 00:40:18
We don't, we have an election this fall. So what I'm just curious what's the cost and adding one item, one line item to it because 00:40:20
they have to do a separate one for Vineyard, that's what they'll just charge us the standard rate per registered voter. So it is 00:40:27
determined by registered voter, not by what's on the ballot, OK. 00:40:33
And then I did have like a really, it's a granular question. 00:40:41
Just like a little bit of my OCD, it drives me crazy that for the next election if we did go to like per SE A6 member council, we 00:40:48
would be electing 3 council members and a mayor in that election and then two years down the road it would only be just two 00:40:55
council members. Could we, would one of those seats be a two year term correct balance that happened that you would have to do it 00:41:02
that way in the statute calls for that so you would stagger one term. 00:41:09
And we would want to identify you'd have to run for that seat. 00:41:17
Well, maybe so one of the other wrinkles and details that we didn't get into here, but it is a choice available to you is you can 00:41:22
have your council seats be at large like they are right now, or you can have them by district. I don't love my district because I 00:41:29
think you end up fighting with among neighborhoods of well, you don't get your thing if I don't get mine and you're better off 00:41:36
making decisions for the city as a whole, all of you. But. 00:41:43
That's all to say if if you were. 00:41:52
If you were to allocate your council seats by district, you would have to identify ahead of time which is the two year seat. 00:41:55
If they're all at large, then what you probably could do is the third. 00:42:01
The 3rd place individual would get the two year term and the the 1st and 2nd place would get the four year term and then the mayor 00:42:09
of course would be a four year term. 00:42:15
OK. 00:42:23
Any other questions? 00:42:26
OK. I'm not seeing any other questions. Thank you so much for all of your work on this. We really appreciate it. We'll move. Oh, 00:42:32
Jake. 00:42:36
You're probably just looking for the button and you found it. Can I make one other note while we're patching it? I, I sent to the 00:42:41
council, I put together just a, you know, 2 sheet form a checklist table of what the difference authorities that are noted in 00:42:49
statute are for the different forms of government. A little bit of an asterisk to this as you read it. 00:42:57
Under all of under the five and six member council, the council's given the authority to reallocate most of these things how it 00:43:05
would like. 00:43:10
There are certain things that I touched on that you can't change, that you can't, for example, remove the mayor's ability to chair 00:43:15
the council. But most other things you can figure out where you want the council involved, where you want the mayor involved, 00:43:21
where you want the city manager involved. So if you don't see something on the list, but it currently exists in the city, it's 00:43:27
legal, or it currently exists, it's just been done by ordinance. So an example on that is the mayor has staff and that's totally 00:43:34
appropriate and totally fine. 00:43:40
It's not called out on this list in the five member council. It is called out on the six member council. I don't know why that 00:43:46
statute has it and the other doesn't, but it's lawful for you to approve that and to have that in a 5 member. 00:43:53
All right, go ahead, Jake. 00:44:02
So Jamie, you talked about the council and mayor. 00:44:06
Having conflict and you review what that conflict is and why you do that is negative. 00:44:10
You have a bright line between the executive and administrative function and the legislative function. 00:44:20
And a lot of that conflict often stems from. 00:44:26
The City Council members that want to be involved in the day-to-day affairs of the city and it is not appropriate under that 00:44:30
system for them to be involved in those affairs at all. 00:44:36
So if under the council mayor form of government and member of council said I want to meet with the department head and the mayor 00:44:42
said no, then they would not be able to meet with the department head. In fact, there's specific language in the statute that says 00:44:48
they may not give direction. 00:44:53
Two department heads. 00:45:00
Under the five and six member council form of government, you can allow for that kind of interaction to occur and in fact in the 00:45:02
ordinance you all passed just two weeks ago, you established a framework for some of those interactions to occur, I think in a 00:45:08
really healthy way. 00:45:14
That would not be an option to you under the mayor council form of government. The mayor could say no and that would be that would 00:45:20
be the rule on it. 00:45:24
So you also made mention of. 00:45:32
Largely of our disagreements currently, we as a majority can actually just vote to resolve some of the issues we have. The 00:45:36
Council. Is that what I'm hearing from you? 00:45:42
As a legislative, well I don't I don't know what you're referring to specifically with disagreements, but it it is accurate that 00:45:49
how you allocate the administrative functions of the city among the council, the mayor and the city manager are entirely within 00:45:55
the councils control right now. 00:46:01
Right now. 00:46:09
OK. So a lot of the Vineyard debate or or I would just say that. 00:46:10
Umm, lively that they've had. 00:46:18
Is the December 41 vote. So those are just positions like within the city that you you can't change what the supermajority does, 00:46:20
let's say some of the issues we've had. 00:46:26
Moving the communications department under the mayor or travel or just different things that did something that we currently have. 00:46:35
We just need to have a majority vote and change the we're empowered in the smaller. All of those things are within your authority. 00:46:42
And the change to the six just. 00:46:54
The six member council. The mayor still assistant chair of the legislative body. 00:47:00
Correct. 00:47:06
So you're not divided, Executive, legislative, you're not divided. 00:47:08
They the mayor is a member of the council, but not a voting member of the council. 00:47:14
The on the six member council there are certain things that the mayor votes on and I'm going off memory here so I may forget 00:47:20
something, but the key things that the mayor votes on under A6 member council is. 00:47:27
If you had a council member absent and there was a tie vote, the mayor would break the tie. If there is a vote on appointing a 00:47:35
city manager, the mayor votes on that decision if there is a vote on. 00:47:43
Changing the mayor's authority. 00:47:52
The mayor votes on that item and the same rules that apply to A5 member council on needing the mayor's vote. 00:47:55
And a majority of the council or everybody on the council but the mayor apply to that kind of a decision in both the five and the 00:48:04
six member council form of government. 00:48:09
For the record, somebody spoke, not by the microphone. Do we need that name for who Jamie was responding to? 00:48:15
OK, that's OK. I it, it was fine. I just wanted to make sure that we got her name on if we needed it so. 00:48:25
Jake, did you have additional questions? 00:48:36
Are we going to have a public comment period? 00:48:40
Yes, there is a public comment period. 00:48:43
They can ask. 00:48:46
We'll have a public comment period, but this is a work session, so go ahead and save your comment. I mean state your comment. 00:48:52
No, so we're not doing a public comment period. We're not doing public hearing. No, this is there's no decision on the agenda on 00:49:00
this item. It's a work session only which typically is a discussion among the council if it if you go down the path of. 00:49:10
Looking at a resolution, you're required to hold public hearings as part of that process, and that's when that would occur. 00:49:20
So we can't do the resolutions didn't no. 00:49:27
This is just a work session. 00:49:32
Yes, yeah, we could. 00:49:37
Do you want to? 00:49:41
Marty, how are you feeling? Don't put me on the spot or anything, Jake. 00:49:43
Honestly, I have. I have a lot of different feelings. 00:49:51
I don't have interest in the council mayor forum I believe that it creates. 00:49:59
I, I see the conflict, I see the issues with having limited access. I believe it limits both sides of things. And I worry that I, 00:50:07
I would need, I would need some convincing because everything I've seen so far, I don't feel like that's a great form of 00:50:14
government, especially for a city our size. It's not very common. They have, I think the only cities in Utah that have that form 00:50:22
of government are Sandy, Salt Lake, and. 00:50:29
Ogden. 00:50:40
Umm I could see us moving to A6 member council. I do like the idea of creating more of a. 00:50:41
It's, it's not a bright line, but I feel like it does separate executive and legislative with having the mayor not have 00:50:50
necessarily a vote in the legislative duties, but more of having the mayor be in the role of taking legislative action and helping 00:50:57
the city move forward with it. I think that that could create a more unifying position for the mayor rather than being in the 00:51:03
weeds of the legislative votes. 00:51:10
I'm, I'm, I'm open to A6 member council, but I don't think you'll have my vote on a council mayor for him. 00:51:21
Would you guys like to move forward with the resolution date? I had one more comment. I also think that we could save money 00:51:29
$18,000 and work on our legislative items. But I feel like there is some conflict there because I think a lot of the concerns that 00:51:37
you might have, Jake, have to do with the mayor's powers and that would require a super majority, which I don't think you'll get. 00:51:46
That was it, and oh, go ahead. 00:51:57
I appreciate your comments. 00:52:00
Did we want to make a motion for? 00:52:04
I. 00:52:08
My comment is. 00:52:12
You know, I, I recognize that history and the growth of Vineyard. 00:52:17
I'm having then, you know. 00:52:23
Being one of the grandsons of one of the articles organizations of the five and and being from, you know, 100 people now to 00:52:28
14,000. 00:52:32
I think it's natural for cities to outgrow their governments and support structures in place. We've had three great mayors and 00:52:38
then one, Mayor Homer, to recognize that. I'm saying that despite conflicts, I recognize their survey. And, you know, starting 00:52:46
from ruling Gamut is a very good man. And also, Randy Mayor Farnsworth. And one of the struggles with the current form of 00:52:55
government we have is the alleviation of authority despite being, you know, great men and women. 00:53:03
In the three, I think there's wisdom in the separation of powers and the unseen and recognizing the growth of our city. So I 00:53:12
would. 00:53:17
You know, lean towards the six member council. I know, I know. 00:53:22
It might not seem like a significant change, but I do. I do see wisdom in having a more limited role of the mayor moving across 00:53:29
council members. 00:53:34
Is there a motion? 00:53:42
For resolution in the future. 00:53:46
I would also make a motion. 00:53:48
To put this on for a vote to study as a city in the coming couple of weeks, we could do this two weeks from today. That would be 00:53:53
great. So are you asking for a specific study or more of a resolution to put it into the 45 day process where we do two public 00:53:59
hearings? 00:54:04
I think we do a 40 day, 45 day process and see public hearings, but I I didn't know the public couldn't speak this evening. I was 00:54:11
hoping that we could speak about it before the 45 days before starting initially, like initially starting the process. 00:54:18
The public could speak about it during public comment. 00:54:26
Yeah, during public comment I would love to stand up and give their advice. 00:54:31
Are we active about that before the public comment period? 00:54:38
Could we do a resolution at the end of the meeting? Well, you're not making a resolution today. All you're all you're doing is 00:54:43
moving it to a future agenda. I mean, I can just put it on, but I know you guys can put it on. There's no need for a vote. You 00:54:49
can, you can have it there. I want to make sure I understand what you're driving toward though. So the resolution needs to be 00:54:55
prepared for a specific choice of government and I understand the choice to be a six member council form of government. I have 00:55:01
that right. 00:55:07
And that's what the resolution language would be. 00:55:15
And then state code has pretty specific language about what the ballot is and then what that resolution is. So I'll just draft it 00:55:18
to match. Thank you for that clarity. I think that's good. I'd be happy to put it on. If you guys want to wait to request 00:55:26
something for a future agenda until after you make your remarks to us about what you've been up to, we could do it then. 00:55:34
I just say, can I make? I'd be happy to just put it on. So either way, OK, sounds great. If you have another comment, I was just 00:55:45
going to make a motion to ask for a resolution to be put on the agenda. Hey, we have a first. Do we have a second Kate? We have a 00:55:51
first by Marty, second by Sarah. Any discussion? 00:55:57
All right. All in favor. Aye, aye. 00:56:04
Aye, OK. And Ambers excuse. All right, that brings us to our next work session which is our City Hall building and Morgan will. 00:56:07
Lead out on that discussion. Great. Thank you, Mayor and members of the council. 00:56:20
Give us just a minute, we'll get set up. Thank you. 00:56:25
So I need somebody. I need to let this Sarah, right? 00:56:32
Yes. And we do have Janet Kwan with Nelson Partners that is on the smart board. 00:56:39
And so, Jenna, if you want to get your presentation up for the council and then I can. 00:56:49
Yes, I'll talk a little bit louder. 00:56:58
All right. So Jana Kwan is with Nelson Partners. That's the architectural firm that we contract with to help us with a spatial 00:57:02
analysis. 00:57:06
I'm going to share. We're just going to. Let's not. 00:57:13
OK. 00:57:19
Yeah, just give me a second. 00:57:20
All right, Janet, I'll, I'll, I'm going to lead off and then I'll have you, I'll have you take over and then I'll just, I'll just 00:57:31
follow your slides. So we both have the same presentation. My slides will be for the public and then Janet is facing the City 00:57:38
Council. So last year the city approved moving forward with a special analysis. We had interest in two entities that. 00:57:46
Wanted to Co locate with the with the city that would be Mag Mountain lands Association of government. 00:57:54
And also Web Rd. which is a business incubator entity that helps businesses get off the ground and and provides them business 00:58:00
services. 00:58:05
And so some of the reasons that were discussed for looking at City Hall in downtown was to consolidate staff into one facility to 00:58:12
provide a central location for services for the public. 00:58:19
And also there was a donation of land from flag Bro to to the city for for the City Hall. So there's some cost savings in, in that 00:58:27
regard. And so that kicked off kind of this initial spatial analysis. 00:58:34
And so all this is denied as a presentation of of that spatial analysis we do have in the budget. 00:58:42
A request for the $2,000,000 to do the deeper design and study that that would also allow the city to hone down, hone in on a 00:58:52
final budget that that we would need to, you know, try and finance should the City Council want, want to move forward with, with 00:59:00
the City Hall. 00:59:07
The site is located in block 5 or north of block 5 in the promenade. So the promenade, if you remember, has five blocks and this 00:59:16
would be. 00:59:22
Of the downtown, this would be block 10. So block 10 is north of block 5. 00:59:29
So show this. 00:59:36
OK, so you can see from this graphic. 00:59:43
So this is block five of the promenade and then this is block 10 of the downtown development blocks. 00:59:46
Um, and so yeah, I just wanted to to touch on just a few things. 00:59:56
Another reason that we're kind of looking at this was for the economic development opportunities that are present kind of in the 01:00:03
area. 01:00:06
We did look at a few other city halls, Provo City Hall and also the Mill Creek City Hall and, and this plan incorporates some of 01:00:12
those things that that were that we found to be beneficial in talking with with those entities. 01:00:20
We also have the benefit of being next to the promenade, having the public space right there. And so it allows for a unique 01:00:30
opportunity to integrate design within the public space that could also help with the community space within the City Hall as 01:00:36
well. And so without any further ado, I'll turn this over to, to Janet with Nelson Partners. And Janet, if you want to take them 01:00:43
through the plans and then I'll, I'll match your, your slide movement. Thank you. 01:00:50
All right. Thank you, Morgan and also Council for letting present this. And if there are any questions along the way, feel free to 01:00:58
interrupt. 01:01:02
Circle next to those. So I was working stated what you're looking at here is kind of just an overall site plan of where the 01:01:06
Vineyard City Hall building would be basically in this parcel here just north of the park. The rest of this development, there's a 01:01:13
lot of development happening all around this building as well. And so when you look on this side, this is just kind of a little 01:01:21
bit of a close up of the site plan. 01:01:28
What we're looking at right now, again, as Morgan mentioned, I met with the city as well as with Mag and Rev Rd. trying to find 01:01:36
out what their needs were on the project. And what we've come up with right now is a four story building. 01:01:44
Just basically just over 78,000 square feet, 1002 higher agencies, square feet located just north of the promenade. There would 01:01:53
kind of be a green state out front of the City Hall because there are a lot of utilities that exist in this N plate promenade in 01:02:01
the entire way. So there'd be some sort of green stage that would separate the City Hall from the promenade. There would also be a 01:02:09
parking garage to the north of the City Hall that would be. 01:02:17
For City Hall as well as. 01:02:25
Yeah. I think there's discussions of other portions of the development sharing that parking garage. So when you're looking at kind 01:02:27
of a breakdown of each floor, I'll be able to sort of give you an overview as well as some initial floor plans we have for each 01:02:35
floor. But it basically, as I mentioned, ends up about 78,000 square feet. 01:02:43
So when you're looking close, some of our design thought was to have a kind of entrance from the South that would connect to the 01:02:53
common on so that anybody that's at the park, the pool, whatever, we have access. 01:03:00
To the city building as well as having an entrance on the north side. That opened up more to the actual overall development of 01:03:09
this project. 01:03:15
So just sort of what what you're seeing here is just kind of an explorative assault showing you the thought processes behind how 01:03:23
we designed this building and what we were putting on all the floors. So if we start from the ground level and as I mentioned, we 01:03:31
will get more specifically into a floor plan, but this just kind of gives you a sort of color-coded picture of what's occurring. 01:03:39
And. 01:03:47
Janet, our our computer is loading very slow, so yeah, if you wanna just hang for a second, sorry. 01:03:53
OK. Are you guys now? We'll I'll let you know. I'll let you know probably 10 seconds. 01:04:02
The anticipation is building. 01:04:10
All right, we're there. 01:04:13
OK. So as I mentioned on this first floor, what you're seeing in this sort of pinkish purple color are elements that would be sort 01:04:18
of part of the public use. So you've got as well as sort of yellow with circulation. So you're seeing that lobby insurance from 01:04:26
the Commonwealth that I mentioned here as well as you got lobby access from the north, which would open up to the rest of the 01:04:35
development. And as Morgan mentioned, one of the things that we looked at as we met with him and as they were fist other. 01:04:44
All buildings in the area was an opportunity for kind of community. 01:04:53
Elephant. 01:04:59
Exhibition stage, whatever that might be, but the idea that you would have some community engagement that can happen on that first 01:05:01
floor. 01:05:05
And then what you're seeing kind of in this green color is the actual Vineyard City building, so on the 2nd floor, and there would 01:05:12
be a staircase, just kind of a grand staircase that connects the 1st floor to the second. You're seeing the Vineyard City Hall 01:05:19
offices and buildings and then the council chambers. 01:05:27
On this North East corner and again we'll look at plans of that most specifically. 01:05:35
What you're looking at in this blue color or any spaces that are shared throughout the building. And when we talked with Mag as 01:05:42
well as Red Rd. and you know, even with the city, it was the idea of couldn't give you some functions that you could share such as 01:05:50
conference rooms, larger conference room tickets, you know, open up into creating a space that allows 100 people to other things 01:05:58
like upgrade room area. 01:06:05
You know, fitness or things like that that could be shared throughout the building. So if we get to the plans, you'll see that. 01:06:13
But that's what kind of this this color is. We also then have Meg right now is shown as taking the entire third floor. They needed 01:06:21
some warehouse space, which is what you're seeing on this first floor on the West corner was warehouse suits for them and then Red 01:06:30
Rose was we were looking at the 5th floor for that. 01:06:38
But then creating some event space on the very top floor. And I believe this is also similar to some of the other City Hall 01:06:46
buildings in Utah, but the idea that this is a space that could be rented out and that was on the 4th floor as well. 01:06:54
And then you know you have restroom floors and high storage going throughout the building. 01:07:04
So I can, I can move on to the floor plan if I, if I can add something, if I can add something to you, there is, there is future 01:07:10
tenant space that you see denoted in the building. So you'll see in the City Hall. The idea with that was for future expansion 01:07:18
space, we wanted this building to fit the needs of the city for the next, you know, you know, as long as we really could, but you 01:07:25
know, for the next 20 years and that provides us the opportunity to. 01:07:33
You know at least that out and then doing maybe short leases if there was an engineering firm or someone that needed some space 01:07:41
and then at the end of that lease when we needed the space, we could then grow into that space. And so that that was the thought 01:07:47
process was providing some spaces that we could grow into. 01:07:52
You know, and I could just say also understanding that the square footage is that you're looking at here instead point based on my 01:08:00
meetings with them and the space that they thought they needed taking into account future growth. 01:08:06
But you know, as Morgan has mentioned, there's nothing set in stone. This is just a kind of space analysis. 01:08:14
So are there any questions on this diagram or? 01:08:25
Any questions? 01:08:30
Feel free to continue. 01:08:34
OK. Thank you. 01:08:36
So what you're looking at here is the first floor plan and have it loaded. Yeah, you're probably gonna need to give us about 10 01:08:38
seconds again, maybe 20. 01:08:43
OK. Yeah, you're good. 01:09:15
OK, now as I mentioned again at the bottom of the page, you're seeing the Commodore. This would be that Green states that 01:09:17
separates the City Hall building from the promenade. As you get a little closer to what is occurring here, again, this is that 01:09:23
Bobby space. 01:09:29
That was coming from the South to allow easy access from the and then you also have this lobby space to the north for the rest of 01:09:35
the development. 01:09:41
And this is that element that could be that communication, whether it's, you know. 01:10:24
Farmers Market, Crescent, whatever that element is, just the idea that we're playing some space for some community engagement. 01:10:31
Again, as you come into the building, this is that grant there that would take you up to the video and see all building. What 01:10:42
you're seeing in this dash line here, this would be a two source space. So that opens up. 01:10:48
Using the 2nd floor again, you have here #5 are these conference rooms? This is what I was talking about, that this is conference 01:10:54
rooms that could be used for any of the tenants in the building. They could have multiple partitions so that he could open up and 01:11:02
need one larger space if there were events that warranted that. 01:11:10
You know what you're also not saying like years. I'm not showing any exterior windows and that type of thing. So don't think that 01:11:19
it's a building without windows. You know, you you still would have all of that and connections to the park used to the park, but 01:11:26
it's really just a special analysis at this point. And Janet. 01:11:33
Oh OK, when you're done I'll I'll add a few other items. 01:11:42
OK, sure. Other things that were kind of important to, you know, the test sitting in bag was an idea of places for bike parking. 01:11:46
If you're writing the work, ability to be able to take a shower, you know, bring your bike. So we kind of have some bike storage 01:11:57
down here. And then as I mentioned previously, Mag needed a large warehouse area as well as kind of trailer parking. 01:12:06
So that's what you're seeing at .9 is the trailer parking and the parking garage. You would like to see to the north of that. And 01:12:15
then again we have things like electrical rooms, elevators, you know makes main stairs throughout the building negotiations for we 01:12:23
have 3 elevators shown here and then more of a grass there is connecting the 1st and 2nd floor. 01:12:32
Right. And to clarify, MAG is Mountain Lands Association of Governments. They are our metropolitan planning organizations. So 01:12:42
they're in charge of doing long range planning, long range land use planning. They provide economic development services and 01:12:49
coordination on a regional basis. And then they also provide a weatherization program. So they help folks that need AAC or they 01:12:56
need heating within their houses that fall within like a low income bracket. 01:13:03
And they also provide the Meals on Wheels program. So if you see those trucks going going around that that's bag and they told her 01:13:11
Utah Summit and Wasatch counties a few other items to point out too under like Mill Creek. One thing that was really nice the 01:13:17
community loved it was that they provided. 01:13:24
Starting to do really well. And so I it's just kind of a one of those things that if you're interested in from a, from a council 01:14:06
standpoint, we could, we could try and incorporate into the into the building. That's great. Thanks. 01:14:12
Jake has his hand up. Hold on one second. 01:14:18
Am I good with me? 01:14:31
OK. 01:14:35
So this is 87,000 square feet like that's. 01:14:39
And three, three people separating it all owners mag and then the other third like by the floor, are they renting it from the two 01:14:44
of them? 01:14:48
So we would look at Craig from Ron Eric, but we would work so that this is just providing like the spatial analysis. I believe 01:14:54
that there's there's like a mag was very open on how we could do it. But I believe yeah, both entities are I believe we're gonna 01:15:01
work with Lewis Young to help us understand kind of from a financing standpoint how. 01:15:09
From a financing standpoint, how that that could come together whether it's three separate owners or if there's long term places. 01:15:17
So I I think those details that haven't necessarily been worked out, but the idea is to is to contract with like Louisiana to help 01:15:23
us evaluate that. 01:15:29
My first initial comment, and I don't want to attack everything, that the size of this City Council building is similar to the 01:15:39
Saratoga Springs one. 01:15:44
Which has the current price tag of 55, zero million dollars. 01:15:50
Of a special size to build today. 01:15:55
You know, so that's kind of like. 01:16:02
I I I get maybe there's an acre of land to donate. I can imagine an acre in this property being a couple 100,000 or 3.43400 01:16:07
thousand, but 50 million? 01:16:13
So basically the 2,000,000 is only just for the planning. 01:16:20
Of the building. 01:16:26
Yeah, that, that would get us to the construction, construction documents. 01:16:29
So I I did some. 01:16:35
Commercial analysis on my own and just pulled off that space around here and I asked for. 01:16:38
You know how many I know we have 1512 fifteen staff and our current building over there by Maverick and just a quarter mile 01:16:46
outside of Vineyard, I was able to find three places for under 350, three, $160,000 total. 01:16:54
Like I was like $360,000 to 50 million. Like I mean, it's like we're right now in the lowest. 01:17:05
Commercial real estate since the 1970s, yet we're at the highest in all in in commercial building. 01:17:16
So that's my only question is. 01:17:26
So. 01:17:33
I just wanted to point out a couple things to respond. Jake, the building size is 78,000 square feet and. 01:17:36
No, that's fine. And still I'm looking at the screen and that's the same. It's roughly the same size. Yeah. One big distinction in 01:17:47
the planning on this is that the City Hall is not intended to house public safety when we looked at Provo City. 01:17:56
The public safety element of that building brought the cost per square foot up substantially and so the total cost of the building 01:18:05
is somewhere more in the ballpark of the 20 to $30 million range and with three partners that brings it into a a much more 01:18:11
reasonable cost for the city. 01:18:17
To provide something within its city in the downtown core that provides amenities for the general public. 01:18:23
Yeah, I would add to, I mean that's, so this is conceptual, this is just to kind of start the process. That's where Lewis Young 01:18:33
would would help us with that analysis to see, you know if how we can get this down as as as reasonable as possible. 01:18:40
I mean, I think this is a great idea for 20/30/20 Forty 2015. You know, when you look at a similar city like Provost, not like us, 01:18:49
right? Provost 100,000 or 14,000. This would be us putting the facts of a City Hall decides in Saratoga Springs, but they have a 01:18:57
population of 60,000, so they're spreading that out across 60,000 residents. We would be building the equivalent size and putting 01:19:06
the tax burden on only 1415 thousand residents. 01:19:14
And, and we're building it, you know, years early. Like decades earlier than what? 01:19:23
You know, so I understand that this is like a dream of like, hey, you know, downtown when vineyards built out give me a few tough 01:19:30
cities successful in getting a population of their morning. I mean, yeah, you probably would need something like that. But with us 01:19:38
that like, I don't know, 30% of the city is like we're building something that is 100% build up ready, right. So is is Saratoga 01:19:45
Springs or is it just that there are city offices because. 01:19:53
This is not just the city offices. These are three entities. 01:20:00
That that, that that would make it. 01:20:04
Where they're actually going to have the county police have a portion of their property. 01:20:06
I think you're being on the other side of the lathe that that price point would be any different, I think. 01:20:14
Sorry, cutting off, I think it would be fine to go and look and see their numbers. I mean, that would be really interesting to 01:20:23
find those comparables. I think you could also speak to what the staff is experiencing right now with the division and multiple 01:20:27
different buildings and. 01:20:32
And the disconnect and how your teams are growing and what that looks like for Jake. 01:20:37
100% I mean, I understand being in different buildings, but almost every city has done that. I mean, you know, when you talk to 01:20:45
Maple thing and whatnot, they, they write it up modular trailers. They they've done Saratoga Springs, they've done used dental 01:20:52
offices for makeshift for 5-10 years. So like we need to get into a better situation right now. This is the best time in the 01:21:00
market. Like I, I went two or four or five different locations and it was like. 01:21:08
A square footage right now is the best deal in the world. 01:21:16
So we need to get better space and yeah, let's do it for a little while and it would be very smart for the city to buy the space. 01:21:20
Because it is the bottom of the people at the bottom of If you read KSL 3 months ago, this is the this is the best times to buy 01:21:29
and the worst time to build commercial real estate since 1970. Jake, when you were when I when I toured it, I was like wow, we can 01:21:37
pay cash for some of these buildings for 300K400K. 01:21:44
What a savings to taxpayers. So hey, Jake, when you were touring or when you were looking at those buildings, were they within 01:21:53
Vineyard? 01:21:57
NT University Parkway right at the end of quarter mile outside, there's one right next to a freeway off ramp in an arm on Center 01:22:02
St. They're they're just barely outside. And taxpayers look at that and go, wow, put a massive cost saving while we're waiting the 01:22:09
three to five years to save up money for a, you know, 50 million, $50 million project, right. I think as we're writing down some 01:22:16
of the thoughts that save sharing. 01:22:23
It would be good as they move forward in these discussions to maybe look at those things and get actual numbers and and what that 01:22:30
looks like and provide options as we look forward to this further discussion with the City Council. Yeah, that's one of my 01:22:37
questions. I would like to know more accurate numbers. Like Jake, you keep saying 50, but then staff just said 20 to 30. Am I 01:22:44
correct? And then. 01:22:50
And then we would be splitting that cost with two other entities. So I would like to know a little bit more accurate numbers 01:22:59
before we start jumping to outside of the city options. And then the other thing. 01:23:04
Yeah, I think that's great. And we can have staff grab those numbers too, additional with the accurate numbers you're asking for, 01:23:13
Marty. Yeah. And then the other question I had is moving forward with something like that. I guess it would be interesting to hear 01:23:19
from Lewis and Young how we would pay for it if that was something that we would have to go to bond or if we're talking tax 01:23:26
increases or if we're just talking that this would be something that our RDA would afford. 01:23:32
And then my other just comment is I think there is there's two sides to this. And I definitely want to be fiscally responsible and 01:23:39
I want to be wise with our money. But I also know that there is value and good planning. And so if this means we have this good 01:23:47
plan of getting a centralized location with Freeland and partnerships in a viable way that doesn't put a huge tax burden on our 01:23:54
residents, I just need a lot more information so. 01:24:02
Jake, I think you bring up great questions and I think I agree with the mayor. It's worth looking into for sure. 01:24:11
I just want to say hold on Jake. Hold on Jake one minute, Jake, hold on one second. Sarah is going to go and then I'll throw it to 01:24:18
you. I just want to say I appreciate you guys. You're considering including the community areas in this building. I think it's 01:24:24
really awesome. We talked about that a little bit and to have conference rooms that that are usable for the citizens. So I just 01:24:31
wanted to acknowledge your. 01:24:38
You're making an effort to do that. I think that's really cool It the price tag is overwhelming, right? And it feels premature. 01:24:45
And I feel like if what I also looked at one of those buildings that were for rent. So it's to buy I guess for less than 300,000. 01:24:52
So really it's it's making sure that the timeline makes sense and that we are being careful with the money that we have. So it 01:24:59
doesn't feel. 01:25:07
To the citizens like. 01:25:15
Opulence. 01:25:17
Does that make sense? So. 01:25:19
Yeah, and really this process is to is to answer these types of questions and see if the City Council wants to move forward so 01:25:21
that. And so yeah, I think we need to dig in and yeah, I think the direction that we're sorry Jake, go to you and then I'll. 01:25:30
After you. 01:25:39
I mean, my eyes were open when I found this, when I saw this on the agenda. And I spent a lot of time with quite a few different 01:25:42
commercial real estate agents right now. And what has been eye opening to me is that everyone has gone from working in an office 01:25:48
to working from home. 01:25:55
And they are very, they are saying that the amount of commercial real estate is available on the market might take, you know, 10 01:26:02
to 15 years to eat up just a open space. And so, and then my, the other thing I toured with Warren is Orem cities population 01:26:10
around 9:00. What is it 9598 thousand? I think we'll get the exact numbers on that. But they're building is only 44,000 square 01:26:18
feet. So it's like, I understand they're not renting it out. I do like the idea that you guys are. 01:26:26
Going to Mount Land Association of Governments and you know, Saratoga Springs is is doing the same thing with the county and 01:26:34
bringing those services over over there. So I can see that. My only concern is like the third tenant and I don't know the company. 01:26:42
If it's just a tenant situation, we. 01:26:52
Looking at how many people have moved off their spaces and from really good leases and which actually makes me wish we could 01:26:59
renegotiate our current lease by Maverick because of the dropout in the market. But I did look at the contract. 01:27:07
For another year or so. But yeah, I think there needs to be. I wouldn't mind studying or putting a citizen Commission together on 01:27:16
finances and like even even their council and doing some tours and understanding like cities. 01:27:25
Because one thing I did come out of this today, I do think we need to plan. I like what Marty said and like this, this does look 01:27:35
like something that you know, you need to save the plan some meeting with Utah City and say, hey, you know what? We if this isn't 01:27:43
our long range plan, great. You know, we need to talk about that, right? 01:27:50
All right. Do you have more comments? I have this thing. One thing that I also wanted to mention was just to keep in mind 01:28:00
oftentimes, and I heard this from Lewis and Young, sometimes building something earlier might cost half or I hate throwing out 01:28:09
numbers that can't be back, but there could be a definite savings and building something sooner. 01:28:19
But like I get, I like your mentality and the sentiment that you're sharing. 01:28:28
All right. Any additional comments on this? 01:28:36
If not, I feel like you guys have pretty good guidance. Is there anything you need clarity on? 01:28:41
Sorry, I appreciate that. 01:28:47
Yeah, I think that I really appreciate this. Obviously the sticker shock and and everything goes to the engines. 01:28:53
Bring this back again for discussion. 01:29:04
I think what my plan is, is I'm going to let the staff go and collect that information and then as they build that time, I'm 01:29:07
hoping to keep it within the budget timeline. So I'm going to bring it back as early and often within this budget framework. 01:29:15
So I mean like July 1st? No, that would be outside the budget framework. So that would be after the approval of the final budget. 01:29:25
I'm thinking the next meeting or the meeting after that. So it's still within the budget framework. 01:29:32
We would know that the bonding or the financial mechanism. 01:29:41
Of what we would be paying for the total build up. I think that's, I don't know exactly what Lewis and Young will provide or what 01:29:47
answers we'll come back with. But I think that the direction that we've given them, hopefully they'll be able to glean those 01:29:53
answers and come back. And if it's something that we feel like we have enough answers on that we can vote on anything that would 01:29:59
be in our budget. We can. And if not we'll move it to the next year and we can do any amendments that would be necessary or. 01:30:05
Kind of proceed in that way. 01:30:13
OK, the only request that I would have is when they report back in Saratoga Springs, Orem and promo have all talked about budget 01:30:16
creep and about their what they estimated of what it would cost was dramatically higher than what it ultimately did. And So what I 01:30:25
would like is a is a complete, I don't want to know just the $2,000,000 for planning because I mean that's just a design this 01:30:33
right? It's like OK from beginning then landscaping everything all in and budget creep. 01:30:41
And I would like them to study out what that Budget Creek was, was from at least three different cities to say from when you voted 01:30:51
to win to where you're at, what is the total percentage that you probably get a breakdown of the three. So we can add that 01:30:59
percentage on suite so the citizens know before we vote. We're voting on the total X amount, dollar amount. 01:31:07
OK. Thank you. That's helpful. Do you guys feel like we can accomplish that? I know you're working closely with the cities that 01:31:17
just built so. 01:31:20
Yeah, Yeah. We'd be having to reach out and we haven't worked with with Mill Creek as well. Oh yeah. They, they, they'd be a 01:31:24
really good comparative. Yeah, comparable. OK, great. All right. With that, we'll go ahead and move on to our next part of our 01:31:30
agenda. 01:31:35
Let's see. 01:31:43
Who is all desiring to make a comment? 01:31:46
Can you raise your hands a little bit higher just so I can count? 01:31:50
All right, um. 01:31:54
Come on up, state your name and what you would like to talk to us about. 01:31:57
Where are you from? Other things? 01:32:03
Daria Evans. 01:32:11
Thank you for this opportunity. Can I ask a couple questions about the City Hall? OK. 01:32:13
I'd like to know if they know what the market value of the land being donated is worth. 01:32:20
I'd also like to know what would happen to the current mag building on Geneva Rd. What would that what would happen to that 01:32:27
building and could Vineyard utilize it for maybe as a public works building house people there since already the public works 01:32:35
building up here in Vineyard is already at capacity and we need to expand it which is too bad. 01:32:42
And also. 01:32:51
I would like to know is the designer of the construction documents? Is that going out for a bid? 01:32:54
And. 01:33:04
When would that come in? 01:33:07
And also I would just like to thank Nasim Gandor for getting our 25 mile an hour speed limit signs in our community. 01:33:09
And I think that's it. Thank you very much. 01:33:20
Can I add to the Naseem thing? I heard that one of them was placed in a terrible location and the city responded very quickly to 01:33:24
changing that. 01:33:28
Oh, come back to the microphone. 01:33:34
We had a neighbor. 01:33:36
Was not happy because the big red sign was right in her field of view of the mountains and the same and his crew switched, 01:33:39
switched around, got a bigger pole and put it so it wasn't in her view. Thank you very much. That was really nice. Thank you. 01:33:48
Kim Cornelius Resident I would just say our village residents take the mountains very seriously. So I have a a lady wanted me to 01:34:03
move a tree 3 feet so she can see my nose better. 01:34:08
How about when you respond to or are you asking? 01:34:46
I know we've got the two weeks to come back with it on the agenda. So I was hoping maybe there could be some suggest for some 01:34:51
discussion to make sure we get the right. Jamie, did you want to offer clarity there, just that what you refer to is? 01:34:57
In the statute called the six member council form of government, is that what they call? Yeah, You have 5 working members hearing 01:35:04
the same thing as what we were reading. The mayor is the chair of the council. The mayor votes on certain items but not 01:35:09
everything. OK, so would be still 5 council members perhaps. OK, thank you. 01:35:14
Sorry about that. I'm Darlene Price. I'm from the Villas. Just a couple of things that as I was watching the presentations, which 01:35:32
by the way were very excellent and informative. I, I appreciate that, especially the history that we went through. I know that 01:35:38
that was a lot of work. 01:35:45
One piece. 01:35:51
Our current government that we have right here, which one is that? 01:35:54
5 member council, the five member council. OK. And originally, as I was doing my research, I originally found out that for 01:36:00
example, that's that kind of government was for small towns a certain amount and most of those people knew each other. So for 01:36:08
example, my family in Leamington, UT, their form of government was this kind because they all were neighbors and were related some 01:36:15
way or another, the Christiansons and the deaths and suddenly other people in that small town. 01:36:23
And they trusted each other. And so that form of government worked very well for them. And that's the kind that we have here, but 01:36:31
we don't have. 01:36:35
Family members that trust each other. And so I'm I am concerned about that. I'm concerned by the fact that. 01:36:42
One of the things that kept coming back was the conflict that this particular type of government had. I don't see that we have a 01:36:52
type of government that is without conflict what we currently have. And, and so how it can't be worse than what we've got. That's 01:36:59
what I keep thinking is it just cannot be worse than what we've got and you have to admit. 01:37:07
That there are nights when I come here on Wednesday that I'm not sure what we're going to see. You know, we've got people that are 01:37:15
very, very passionate about where they are. And so I, I find a change of government is what we need for, for Vineyard, mostly 01:37:22
because we're not a small town anymore. The other thing we were talking about was the City Hall. I am overwhelmed at the point of 01:37:30
paying $50 million for a building that we will use in the future. 01:37:38
With promises that we will rent this out and we'll rent this out and we don't know that that's what's going to happen. 01:37:46
If in four years, three years, two years, the economy goes into the sink, where will we be stuck with building a $50 billion 01:37:54
building? And I want to tell you, I'm a retired person, recently widowed, and I don't have the ability to go out and earn more 01:38:02
money to pay my taxes. And so I, I would say knock down that wall right there. If you want bigger spaces, move this place back. 01:38:10
And that won't cost you $50 million. I don't even think it'll cost you 300. 01:38:18
To just knock that out. If you want temporary space, more space. 01:38:27
Karen Cornelius, Villa resident. 01:38:39
I first of all I just want to say my head is spinning. 01:38:43
And I know that this you said it was in the budget last year that we are spending $2,000,000 for a conceptual design. 01:38:47
I, I, I, I'm blown away. So then when I think of that, I think that the $50 million price tag might be a little bit low because 01:38:59
usually those designs are percentage of the total project. 01:39:07
So it's really kind of scary to think what the total project would be. And I know that that's going to require something happening 01:39:15
financially and Vineyard, whether it be bonds, whether it be tax increases. 01:39:20
But at the same time, we're looking at a school district that is totally and completely uncertain and if we have to begin a new 01:39:27
school district. 01:39:31
In our neck of the woods where we're no longer paying for school buildings in Saratoga Springs, which I can understand why we need 01:39:38
to do this, but we don't know what the tax implications that is going to put on the citizens of vineyards. I think we have to back 01:39:44
up, and I think that's one of my concerns. 01:39:50
That I've had since I've lived here is everything has to be. 01:39:57
At a rapid pace. And we can't make all of these decisions that rapidly when we have so much uncertainty. And I'm concerned about 01:40:03
what the school district will mean. I know that that is an expensive proposition, but I also know in my mind that the benefits of 01:40:11
that far outweigh the benefits of a beautiful Taj Mahal in Utah City. We have to take into consideration the future of the 01:40:18
families and the children that live in this. 01:40:26
This town, and if that's where our money needs to go for five years, that's where our money needs to go. And other things can be 01:40:34
put on the back burner, not done away with. But that cannot be our focus in the here and now because as my friend just said, we're 01:40:42
on fixed incomes. So don't do that. Don't put everything on us all at once. 01:40:49
I'm still also waiting for an answer as to what we can do about the 4:00 to 1:00 when we were told on December 13 that our new 01:40:57
council could change that. And I'm waiting for an answer to that question as to how that can actually happen. Thank you. 01:41:05
Hello Sherry K Miller resident. I want to tell Pam first I'm sorry about your back. I feel horrible because I've had back 01:41:22
surgeries. Hope that doesn't happen to you anyway. Okay so I I wanted to I after two weeks ago meeting I went home that night and 01:41:29
I just scribbled down some notes. So I'm going to start with those and then I'm going to give the good news. So I said last one 01:41:37
after last May I says I care about what is happening here in Vineyard and I also care about how it is happening. 01:41:44
Tonight, last council meeting last night, things got contentious with a lot of interrupting and talking over each other. It was 01:41:52
painful to watch and I'm so sad that the reputation over the last few years of Vineyard has gone down. Breaks my heart. But I 01:41:59
wrote a little note. Tonight's meeting was much better. I came worried that it was going to be that sick feeling again and I felt 01:42:07
like things were better today. So I appreciate that there was no interrupting jumping on each other. 01:42:14
Because I think effective communication skills is really important so that we have a sense of community. 01:42:23
I also, OK, so I wanted to say that the transparency plus time equals trust. And I think that is what hasn't happened. And we have 01:42:33
some PTSD going on that is lingering and I and I want to get over it and I am going to get over it. But I, I think that's a lot of 01:42:40
what's happening. 01:42:47
Anyway, I'm going to, I'm going to switch what I was going to say then. I really appreciate the civics lesson. I do think we have 01:42:55
a strong mayor. I do think that there's been more in what happened in the past, but the council members were not. 01:43:03
Well, as I said, they were at peace with what was happening and that wasn't good for the citizenship for me anyway, I think. I 01:43:12
think we need more checks and balances. I really liked what she said. I heard once that conflict isn't bad, it's contention that's 01:43:20
bad. So conflict isn't a bad thing. Usually end up I, I lived in Pennsylvania and there was a lot, I mean, in, in the world that I 01:43:29
revolved in. And I sat in lots of meetings and we always came up with really good solutions. 01:43:37
In our family, we wanted to do an extension for our room because we didn't have a place where we could all eat together and we 01:44:23
thought we had a plan. We had to wait for a couple years because things just didn't work out. So anyway, I just want to have our 01:44:30
community to be somewhat like that as a family where we're making all decisions. So if we can have. 01:44:36
Transparency time will have trust. Thank you. 01:44:44
Thank you. Any further comments? 01:44:52
All right, then I'm going to close the public comments section. Oh, come on up. 01:44:54
Right after you, David Pierce, I'm a resident in the Cascade areas and I have a couple of questions. One is. 01:45:01
If we split the school district, will the method of financing the school district expenses change from what it is now? 01:45:12
As far as methodology and sources. 01:45:21
And the other comment, the other question is. 01:45:25
If the city stops planning. 01:45:33
For the future. 01:45:38
What happens to the city? 01:45:43
What happens to the homes we live in and the services that we expect? 01:45:45
The city to give us If we stop planning for the future because we're maybe afraid that this may happen, where do we go? 01:45:51
What do we do? 01:46:03
The best I think we can do. 01:46:06
Is take the projections of what we. 01:46:09
Believe is going to happen. 01:46:12
What analysis happens? What the projections are for the most possible future? 01:46:16
And those are my comments, my questions. Thank you. Go ahead, Tim. Last one. 01:46:30
So this is brief, but Tim Keaton. 01:46:37
There we go. 01:46:40
I can't see any good reason. 01:46:45
For providing the agenda to the citizens. 01:46:48
A mere 24 hours prior to meetings. 01:46:52
I know other cities try to, they go to great lengths. 01:46:57
To provide information beforehand for a couple of weeks so that people can think about it. Discussions can happen. 01:47:02
Organizations can become involved so that by the time we come to a meeting, people are prepared with comments that they can't do 01:47:13
in a way where 24 hours is all they have. So. 01:47:19
Could we please, please, And I can't see any reason why anybody here would disagree, can we please, please extend greatly the 01:47:28
amount of time that the public has access to agenda items prior to meetings? 01:47:35
I'm going to comment on it and then you can comment on it after I close all the comments. OK, Unless you need clarity for his 01:47:44
comment. OK, thank you. 01:47:48
All right. So let's see the designer of construction being out to bid. My understanding of your question is that it's referring to 01:47:53
the $2,000,000 in the budget. Can you clarify what that is? 01:48:01
And also there was a comment about it being conceptual. So the the conceptual was what was done and we can look back in last 01:48:10
year's budget, but it was substantial. Last construction documents are very expensive. And so that was that was the amount to 01:48:18
budget. Just to make sure that we had enough, we would go through an RFP process or request for proposals. We'd have qualified 01:48:25
architectural design firms bid on it and hopefully. 01:48:32
The number would come in less, less than two million and that there'd be hope just to get it down as much as possible. That would 01:48:40
be for construction documents. So that's ready to build billing permit. We're in the ground building the engineering and all that 01:48:46
stuff will be included with the 2 million. The concept is what we saw tonight. 01:48:52
Thank you. I think just for clarity purposes of the number of 50 million price tag was just. 01:48:59
A Something that Jacob mentioned, looking into the estimated cost that our staff had come up with was or worked with the group who 01:49:07
did the designs as 28 million and it was split and that was split between three groups. So three groups that would be 9.3 and if 01:49:14
it was divided by some other number, it could be anywhere to 14 to 18,000 a million dollars. 01:49:21
I think Marty articulated it well that we want to nail down those questions and Jake did a great job saying how can we itemize 01:49:29
these things and bring it together. So let's before we have any sticker shock, let's get those numbers for what it actually would 01:49:35
be for the community so that we really know what we're looking at. I think that's important. Let's see. So we talked about the 01:49:41
conceptual design is actually engineer designs, price tags, OK, With the school district, there were some questions about the 01:49:48
school district. 01:49:54
We will be talking about the school district. We're not exactly sure how all of those things would change, but we'll talk more 01:50:01
about that during that item. 01:50:05
And then let's see, as far as the hope to get things out there for the public, one of the things that we've been trying to do is 01:50:09
have work sessions. So we present the idea and we put it out for the public so that you can have the discussion. And then we bring 01:50:17
that discussion back again for the actual action item so that you have it for at least two weeks beforehand and you have a public 01:50:26
discussion about it. So that's one of the things that we've been working on. Marty, did you want to add to that one in particular? 01:50:34
I was actually hoping this isn't something that's been some discussion with staff and among the council of putting something into 01:50:44
a resolution to require within our city a policy of getting things out before 24 hours. I think that as I've been talking to 01:50:49
staff. 01:50:55
I think that in the beginning there might be a small adjustment to do that, but. 01:51:02
Being able to put it on to to get an attendance that you know. 01:51:07
Possibly seven days before a meeting, I feel like isn't too big of an ask. I also think that if anything can, we were to need to 01:51:12
add something last minute, it would just there would have to be a special process to that or special conditions. And so I would 01:51:20
actually like to make a motion to put some kind of clarification, something on the agenda where we could talk about that policy. 01:51:28
We already have that on the upcoming agenda. It's scheduled for July 10th. Perfect. OK. 01:51:36
And as we, as we have openings in the budget, I mean in the agenda, we could move it closer if that ends up being available. So it 01:51:46
is there. All right, great. Thank you. 01:51:53
Got a hand? OK, Jake. 01:52:02
Did you have a specific comment? Because I was going to have you do comments during your reports. 01:52:04
With all due respect, July 10th. 01:52:16
Budgeting if it's just a simple. 01:52:21
Policy of getting it posted seven days before. Why can't we just I mean King is that process to vote on that policy that wrong. 01:52:24
I think what? 01:52:38
Well, I know it sounds simple to say, but. 01:52:44
I don't think you want a hard and fast rule of if it's not posted seven days ahead of time, the council can't act on it. There are 01:52:57
emergent things that come up that may not require an emergency meeting or a special meeting, but where you might need to add 01:53:04
something to an agenda to respond to what's happening regionally. The school district conversations a good example of that. You 01:53:12
know, we, we're not the, we're not in the driver's seat, right? We're responding to what other people are doing. 01:53:20
So I think the policy Marty wants drafted would be seven days as the general rule, and then we'd have to identify what the 01:53:28
exceptions are acceptable. 01:53:34
To that, so I would encourage some discussion on it instead of just making a blanket comment. 01:53:39
I. 01:53:49
I think and Mayor, please, please clarify. But I think that there's so many things that we're adding on the budget. I think she's 01:53:51
scheduling them out so that we're not, we don't have too many things. And if you look at our items on our agenda today, we have 01:53:57
like 5 things. I think it's not that many items and we're already 2 1/2 hours in. 01:54:04
Can I make a motion that we put this on next in two weeks just so that we can have transparency, But this is a bigger item. I 01:54:14
don't think anyone would. 01:54:20
I promise to not even talk during your quickening team. 01:54:26
Or there was something that was coming in an emergent situation that would we could add it if we needed to. I think it would be 01:55:02
different. 01:55:06
That's, that's one thought #2 because we've been putting the work sessions ahead of time. So there is that expansive time of two 01:55:13
weeks and, and trying not to have anything come to our agenda for actions that are are big deals where we're putting it in a work 01:55:20
session and then putting it on the agenda. We're double stacking the agenda purposely for this. So it's also public. 01:55:28
There's a decision time, there's two weeks for it to go back to the citizens and then to come. I thought because our agendas right 01:55:36
now are so stacked with obligations, it's difficult to spend time on a process when we have a lot of obligations to get through. 01:55:43
But if, if you're just saying, hey, can we try to get this in motion and start working towards it until we can fit it onto the 01:55:51
agenda. And like I mentioned to Marty, it's those things start clearing off the agenda, then we could add this on earlier. 01:55:58
But I'm just prioritizing according to according to our obligations and the things that you guys also mentioned were top priority. 01:56:06
I understand that. Could I ask the council? I'd like to make a motion to put on agenda for two weeks because I think this is the 01:56:16
top priority because we're talking about the finances, the budget, and I don't think that they should be. The finances should be 01:56:23
dropped for 24 hours each two, it's going to give PTSD. 01:56:29
A massive, massive budget documents. 01:56:36
24 instead of. 01:56:40
You know, getting some days. Eric had a comment. 01:56:44
I just wanted to point out that we have council meetings every two weeks. And at our council meetings, we are getting a fairly 01:56:48
good workload of of requests and assignments that we need to respond to by a subsequent council meeting. And having one week to to 01:56:56
prepare for those will likely either leave us in a position where we aren't producing the kind of material that you're looking for 01:57:04
or we're preemptively or or prematurely submitting stuff simply because. 01:57:12
We only had a week to produce it and so there is a great risk of having. 01:57:20
A7 day mandate when our meetings are so close together that that leaves us with very little time to respond. Well, I think that 01:57:27
we're looking at, we're kind of we're pushing for two conflicting things. We want to have more time before. 01:57:34
The before the OR with the agenda, we want to release seven days in advance and then at the same time we're asking to have 01:57:43
something done ASAP and not giving the staff enough time to OR. 01:57:48
This is what I'm getting out of it, that we're not giving the staff enough time to be able to prioritize items. And so they're 01:57:56
they're asking or the mayor is lobbying for them to have more time and have kind of a good advance. 01:58:02
Plan for our agenda. So I I won't second your motion. I'm not sure if Sarah will. 01:58:09
I, I think I understand why, why Jake's doing what he's doing right, because. 01:58:17
Because when this agenda came out and it's a sticker shock of $2,000,000, right? And people weren't prepared right there, there 01:58:21
wasn't really an understanding. And there's a lot of budget items that are coming up hard and fast, right, So I think. 01:58:29
I mean, I'm OK with July so long as we have public discussions about the budget, right? And there's, there's plenty of time for 01:58:38
them to look at everything like what Sherry Kay said and go over everything line by line. 01:58:46
I I think there's value in hitting the vote on the record that I tried, I'd like a second but. 01:58:58
I also, I also think so we have a first by Jake, we have a second by Sarah. I'll take this time to have a little bit of 01:59:06
discussion. I, I understand what you're saying and I'm going to push back just a little bit in the sense that we're starting a 01:59:13
budget process in the public where we are bringing something that's brought by the staff. We're starting with the public and then 01:59:20
we're going to go through a robust budget process. 01:59:26
Time where you can call in and ask questions. So, umm, anyway, I appreciate that the motion has failed, right? All in favor? No, 02:00:08
no. So it has not failed. It has not gone through, but it is on the record. So thank you. 02:00:16
OK, We're going to hold staff committee reports and mayor and council member reports to the end so that we can get to our public 02:00:26
hearing. I'm going to move to our consent items. Did anybody want to discuss these or can I get a motion for approval? 02:00:32
On the consent items. 02:00:44
Let me shift gears back where we're at, sorry. 02:00:47
Okay. 02:01:02
I would like a brief explanation in our local agreement. 02:01:08
I think I understand the premise of it, but let's pull that one and out. 02:01:13
OK. And this is 7.2. Do you have any questions on 7.1 or 7.3 or can you make a motion to approve those? 02:01:17
I can make a motion 7.1 and 7.3. Here we have our first fight. Jake, can I get a second? 02:01:26
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. 02:01:34
Roll call, Sarah, Marty, I, Jake. 02:01:37
All right, we'll move on to 7.2. This is the approval of an interlocal agreement with Vineyards City and Salem, Orem City and 02:01:44
Linden allowing each city to conduct inspections in this other cities. This is resolution, Resolution 2024-12 and this is bringing 02:01:52
us into compliance with SB185 referring to building inspections, I don't know who. 02:01:59
Chris, would you like to take this on? This is. 02:02:08
For the Utah Code, section 158105 as amended by Senate Bill 185 requires the all jurisdictions have a list of approved third party 02:02:14
inspection firms. The minimum number of third party inspection firms, vineyards required to have this three, and this interlocal 02:02:21
agreement provides those three third party inspectors. 02:02:29
So I think the city is unable to complete an inspection associated with the building permit within three business days. Then the 02:02:37
billing permit applicant may engage a third party inspection firm from the approved list. So if we're going to be able to conduct 02:02:44
an inspection within the three days, the applicant can contact Salem. 02:02:50
Or Linden to. 02:02:57
Conduct an inspection. 02:03:00
The impact is low. Over the past year, the average number of business days to complete an inspection in Vineyard is less than one. 02:03:03
It's .15. 02:03:07
Currently, none of the other cities within this agreement have. 02:03:13
Went over the three day period. 02:03:17
It will be unlucky that this interlocal agreement will impact your inspection levels. 02:03:20
OK. Do you have any questions about that, Jake or anyone from the Council? 02:03:29
So the cities are playing kind of back up to us, like if we can't do it, we'll they'll allow us, We'll use their staff. 02:03:35
Correct. We're required to have this list North City is planning on. 02:03:47
OK, the the the basic statutory framework here, Jake, is there was a proposal before the legislature by developers that if cities 02:03:54
can't complete the inspections within three days, that they could have their own inspector perform the work, a little like the fox 02:04:01
guarding the hen house. The negotiation back from that was that instead of picking their own, the city could create a list and 02:04:09
then they can pick from the city's list. 02:04:16
Instead of using private inspectors, we've found it's more efficient to collaborate with our neighbor cities and they use ours and 02:04:23
we use theirs. This agreement puts that in place. Yeah. What's neat about it is we've done it in the past when our people haven't 02:04:30
had work or other people haven't had work. So it's kind of a something that we've done in the past and are used to. OK, can I get 02:04:36
a motion? 02:04:42
I moved to approve consent item 7.2 as presented. All right, we have the first minority. Can I get a second, second, second by 02:04:51
Sarah? This is done by roll call Jake. 02:04:56
Aye, Marty, Sarah and Amber's excuse. OK, that brings us to our public hearing. Transfer from Enterprise funds to internal Service 02:05:04
fund and we're going to need a motion to go into a public hearing. So moved. Thank you. Marty, can I get a second? 02:05:12
Second, second by Sarah, All in favor. Aye, aye. All right, We're now in a public hearing and our city Manager, Eric Ellis, will 02:05:21
present the recommendations to transfer the funds. OK, Thank you, Mayor. So state law requires that Vineyard City once a year 02:05:29
provide an annual disclosure for funds that are transferred from utility enterprise funds to other funds. So in this case, this is 02:05:36
these are funds coming from water, wastewater and stormwater as well as transportation. 02:05:44
To go into. 02:05:53
The city's. 02:05:55
Internal service fund to cover HR needs, admin facilities, fleet management and information systems. And so this year the total 02:05:57
for that transfer is 803,655. 02:06:04
Other questions? 02:06:13
Are we asking from the public? Yes, we are asking from the public as well. 02:06:16
Guys have questions about this. 02:06:21
Is there any way to stay itemized? Come up to the microphone please and state your name. 02:06:26
It is and your comment. 02:06:35
Karen Cornelius, Village resident. That's a lot of money. So I'm just curious, is there any way to see that itemized? I've had 02:06:39
neighbors talking about that line item on their utility bills and wondering what it was for. And I think that it would be really 02:06:46
nice if we could see how that money is really going, what an itemization of just like we would at home like we heard earlier. So 02:06:53
that would be something that I would like to see happen. Thanks. Karen, did you want to comment on that? 02:07:01
I was just going to point out that the. 02:07:10
The line item version of this was included in the agenda packet, but I could read it out if that would help. So from water 02:07:12
$221,009 transferred into the internal services fund, wastewater 190,584, stormwater $132,050 and transportation $260,012.00. OK, 02:07:22
thank you. Any other comments? I just want to clarify that. 02:07:31
State your name again, Karen Cornelius, fellow resident. I think we would like to see the itemization not of the funds that was 02:07:45
coming out of, but the funds that it's going into. 02:07:50
I'm going to clarify that for her. 02:07:58
Do you want to maybe explain what the internal services? Yeah, well, it says here that it's fleet. 02:08:01
It's some information systems, it's HR. So we would like to see an itemization of those funds that that money is going into how 02:08:08
that's being spent by the taxpayers, OK. 02:08:15
Do you want to explain how that process works? 02:08:24
Think I'll, I will call on you in just a second, don't you worry. 02:08:29
There, that will be included as part of the budget review that Christie's gonna be giving us. Awesome. Thank you. I just wanted 02:08:34
that stated in the record. Awesome. Go ahead, Jake. 02:08:38
We're we're unmuting you, Yeah. 02:08:44
Yeah, this. 02:08:49
I incur with. 02:08:52
Oh, say that one more time, Jake. You're cutting out for a minute. We want to make sure we hear you. 02:08:57
Can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. 02:09:03
Like instead of saying sleep it needs to say. 02:09:08
This F 1:15 This F-150, this F-150 information system, it needs to say survey software. 02:09:12
Cisco 8 computer, 7 phones, these are the phones human resources that needs to say this app or this budget like it. When we talked 02:09:22
about doing budget and we talked about I don't know what number we were setting on $200.00 down to 200 or down to $300. 02:09:32
Just putting in and saying $221,000 for the water fund, it is not broken down enough. I, I did see a transfer of these, most of 02:09:43
these get away from these enterprise funds to transfer as much as they can keep it as small as possible and so. 02:09:53
What can we do to vote to not allow this to happen again policy wise savings so that like is very. 02:10:04
Clear because like right now we're voting. It's like the citizens have no idea what 800 and I mean. 02:10:13
$803,000 is. 02:10:20
Sammy, did you have any? 02:10:26
I I. 02:10:30
Requested with Sarah I believe. Forgive me if I'm wrong about that. Sarah, let me check you were on that to have expenditures. 02:10:35
Over $5000 would mean. 02:10:52
Council approval. I don't have anything for clear delineation of itemization down to the item. 02:10:56
I think it would be your policy on budget expenditures and approval levels for that, that you would look at. That's probably in 02:11:04
the same ballpark as what you're talking about the the fund transfer that is part of this hearing today is a more standard 02:11:10
function of. 02:11:17
Municipal accounting and I don't see anything in how the city is doing it today that is atypical from how every other city does 02:11:24
it. I there's no commitment on how the money would be spent on what you're doing today. That's part of your budget discussion. 02:11:32
OK. So we're just basically moving it into one bank account to the other account. You're not there are there are rules. There are 02:11:43
rules about what balances you can keep in your various funds, and you have to make these kinds of transfers from time to time so 02:11:50
that you don't run afoul of those rules. 02:11:56
Take if you want to discuss it more, I could add it. I could add it to the discussion that I have you down for on May 22nd. 02:12:04
What do you want? Do you want me to add it to that one? 02:12:15
Yeah, this would be one. 02:12:19
Just being very open and transparent on down to $200.00 level. I'm not saying voting on it. I think that's two separate issues of 02:12:24
AFK spending over 5000. It needs to come to us. But I'm just saying for these transfers and everything, we need to get really, 02:12:31
really granular just so that we can show everything right. 02:12:39
OK, I have it. I have added it to that same agenda item that you made that request on. 02:12:47
Any other questions from the public on this? 02:12:56
Come on. 02:13:00
Come on up, state your name where you're from. 02:13:01
Ewing from the Villas. I just, I'm sorry, can you say your name on Terry Ewing? Yes, as in Jr. 02:13:06
Your old nephew known that is um. 02:13:15
It just came up. So we're transferring funds from the enterprise funds to the internal services fund. And then you mentioned that 02:13:18
there's. 02:13:21
A limit on what the funds you can can hold. So where do their excess funds go? 02:13:25
The internal services where they transfer those. 02:13:31
Do you guys want to answer? 02:13:35
An internal service fund. Is overtime supposed to zero out? 02:13:41
But obviously you have upcoming expenses. You may have a small balance in there that you're carrying over, may need to buy a new 02:13:47
truck next year, but the balance is relatively low because of the nature of the fund. We look at what our total expenses are and 02:13:54
we say, OK, HR, stormwater people, they hired so many people, so they used HR services. So what that's happening is they are just 02:14:01
paying for a portion of the HR and again, it's just common. 02:14:09
Umm, services, like I said, we have the fleet, which is all of the transport, all of vehicles that you see going around our 02:14:17
facilities that we own and that we lease our IT. We don't have an internal IT program, but we have to go out. We actually have a 02:14:24
list of all of the computers that will be replaced every year. Now, do I send that list out to the community so that we can go 02:14:32
over every single item? No, I mean, we would be here forever. So I do have that detail. I have how much is being charged. 02:14:40
Each of those items to those funds in fact we reviewed recently with the CPA and outside CPA and he was reviewing our budget 02:14:48
document and he made the comment that our internal service fund was one of the more detailed analysis that he had seen. So I, I 02:14:54
feel like we are doing our due diligence and I'm happy to as we go in and we meet with the council members and individual budget 02:15:01
meetings, we will be going down through the line item detail. I just don't think that's appropriate to do in a public setting or 02:15:07
we would be here. 02:15:14
I understand that. And so they use it or lose the kind of thing, just roll over. You know, it rolls over. But again, the idea is 02:15:21
that you keep it small just so that if you have a few expenses that come up that we're unanticipated, but no long term it will 02:15:27
zero out. Does that make sense? Thank you. 02:15:33
Any other questions, Terry? No, no. OK. 02:15:40
Tim Heaton again, so if you do have that level of detail, what is stopping you from providing that online for public access, to 02:15:44
review, to see the numbers, to see the level of detail for themselves? Why not do that? 02:15:51
By law we are required to provide so much and that is on the transparency website. I just uploaded the the quarter three for 02:16:03
fiscal year 24 last month and that's what we are required to do to show you our expenses. We also have the budget on there, but we 02:16:10
do not need to go down into the line item D, but you know, maybe we could do is put a link to that because we're already putting 02:16:18
it out there. I think that's yeah. So my she's not addressing my my specific question. 02:16:26
Which is not What does the law require, which are bare minimums? 02:16:33
My question is, what is stopping you from providing the level of detail? There's no law that says you can't do it. 02:16:39
Not what the law requires. I want more than that. And we have the privilege to do more than that. Nothing stopping us from doing 02:17:22
more than that. Let's do more than that. Yeah, thanks, Tim. I thought you meant what she was stating was on the transparency 02:17:28
website. Is the detail that you were saying, is that right? Just for clarity, Transactions, Yes, but he's asking for line item 02:17:34
budget detail, correct? That is not finalized. So we have projects that we're still discussing. So I would be happy to do that 02:17:40
after we have approved. 02:17:46
Approved the final budget. 02:17:53
If that's the case, they can be labeled as such and then when the numbers are finalized, they can be labeled as such and that way 02:18:30
there is no confusion about the provisional nature or the final status of the numbers that are provided. Thanks for those 02:18:35
suggestions. 02:18:40
Did you have a comment? 02:18:46
Yeah, Christy, I just want to say I appreciate the question. Another. 02:18:50
One, I wanted to say if we know the total dollar amount of $803,000? 02:18:57
You're probably just grabbing that in the Ledger or Excel sheet and then column of what it actually is. So it's just that's what 02:19:06
I'm asking for is when we do this staff report and moving it. 02:19:13
And maybe you do say it's 800 and 306 subject to change, but this is what currently is. 02:19:20
That's what that's what I'm asking for. OK, subject to change, but this is 50,000 is. 02:19:29
I feel like we're asking for a lot of details being like kind of put in different places. And I don't want to create a lot of busy 02:19:38
work if we can figure out a way to make it uniform so that we're not monopolizing time. So I really need to do that so that we're 02:19:45
not like. 02:19:51
I just don't want to add unnecessary work, but I do want the public to have information. I just think we have to figure out a 02:19:58
balance here where that we're not. 02:20:03
I think to just point of order to stay on topic, I like what you're saying. And what if we take what you're doing and put that 02:20:10
inside of that policy discussion for the next meeting? Can we do that? 02:20:14
All right. Anything else from the public that's sitting here at this time? OK, I'm going to close a public hearing. I need a 02:20:20
motion. 02:20:24
I move to close the public hearing. First by Marty, second second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 02:20:29
Thank you. OK, Council, do you have any questions? 02:20:41
Jake, do you have any additional questions? 02:20:46
No, just a comment. I just don't think I could ever vote on something so high level without, you know, like you know, I want the 02:20:50
citizens to have this type of form. You know, we can advance and have the 803,000 itemized set up so they can see it, so that 02:20:57
they're coming to a meeting here to be able to look at the item. I think it gives me feedback for the council member. Until then, 02:21:04
I just wouldn't support, even if it is just a one fund to another fund. 02:21:12
Movement so I just do those businesses in the most kind nice way. I would I would vote for OK, thanks Jake. This is a public 02:21:19
hearing for comment regarding the recommended transfers. But today no actions going to be taken by the council. So I appreciate 02:21:25
your comment. 02:21:31
All right. We will move to discussion in action 9.2, Proposed tenant fiscal year, tentative fiscal year 2024-2025 budget and our 02:21:38
Finance Director, Christy Bayless will present this. 02:21:44
Thank you. I first wanted to review and the budget calendar. 02:21:57
So that everyone is aware of the process that we go through as a city. 02:22:03
That our process to create this budget actually started back on February 21st when I was three weeks into this job and we met with 02:22:08
the council and the directors and we talked about priorities and what they wanted to see happen in this budget season. 02:22:15
Then in March, I started looking at revenue projections. I have been following the sales tax and and property taxes very closely 02:22:23
so that we can have accurate. And again this is projections. Remember when we talked budget, it's all projections. We're doing our 02:22:29
best guess as to what we think is going to be happening. 02:22:34
And then in March, I spent two weeks meeting individually with each director in their department, where they were able to come and 02:22:41
give me all of their asks. Now, when it comes to government budget, if I could give every department everything that they needed 02:22:49
to to work just smoothly, and I could give all of the community everything that they wanted, it would be wonderful. 02:22:57
But what we have to do is try and give you the best bang for your buck. And so like I said, we met with the directors, we came up 02:23:06
with their asks, and then we took those asks along with the priorities from the extra budget session that they had with the 02:23:13
council and we tried to mesh those into something that can be adopted tonight. Again, this is just us presenting it. So by law, 02:23:21
the first meeting in May of the City Council, the tentative budget has to be presented and accepted. 02:23:29
And in two weeks, on the 22nd, we will be having the public hearing where we will be able to discuss it. But between now and then, 02:23:37
Eric and I will be meeting with each council member to go over their individual asks. At that time, they will be seeing the detail 02:23:45
that we've been talking about. Again, all of the projects that council wants and all of the projects that staff wants, it's not 02:23:52
possible to do. And so that's why I'm a little nervous about putting that out there. 02:24:00
I would rather wait until we have a final budget so you know what the actual projects are that we are that we are considering. I 02:24:07
did want to mention that you should have gotten right before this meeting, Council members your quarterly report for Q3, for 02:24:14
fiscal year 24. I'm sorry that it was late. 02:24:20
I'm sorry that my goal is to have it the first day of the month following the end of the quarter. Now next time we would be doing 02:24:28
that would be August 1st, but I'm going to ask to not have to do that until August 15th because we will be coming up on year end. 02:24:34
And so it would take a couple extra weeks just to get everything finalized. But I will be emailing you another quarterly report 02:24:40
and we'll do that quarterly going forward. And then if you have, if you can review it on your time and if you have questions then 02:24:45
reach out to me. 02:24:51
So let's take a look at our budget for this next year. Again, this is projections. 02:24:58
You can see year over year our budget has gone up, has gone up, has gone up and this year it is not going up. And again that's 02:25:07
we've talked about the economy that we're living in the way things are and we are very cognizant of that. We are trying to keep 02:25:14
our general fund at a healthy place. And so we've had to do things a little bit different this year. But if like I said, you can 02:25:21
see our total budget, our total budget amount is not actually going up. 02:25:28
This year. 02:25:35
This is our general fund. These are all of the revenues, just to clarify. 02:25:37
When we talk about sewer, stormwater, transportation, those are enterprise funds and we'll be going over those budgets here in a 02:25:42
second. Enterprise funds are meant to be self-sustaining so that they it's ideal that you don't have to transfer general funds to 02:25:50
cover those expenses. We want them to be self-sustaining, making their own revenue covering all of their expenses. The general 02:25:57
fund is where all of the taxes come in and you can see the other revenues that are listed here. 02:26:05
Building permits, recreation fees, business licenses, all the business that the city conducts, the fees that are listed and 02:26:14
associated with that are listed here in the revenue. 02:26:19
This slide shows all of the expenditures that we are anticipating for fiscal year 25. It breaks it out by department and percent 02:26:27
of total expenditures. 02:26:32
I'm going to give you a minute to review that and if there are any questions I'd be happy to. 02:26:39
OK. Next, I'm going to go to the water fund. Again, this is an enterprise fund, so ideally we want it to sustain itself. The blue 02:26:48
is the revenues and the yellow or orange, excuse me, is expensive. So obviously we want the revenue to be more than expensive as 02:26:55
we go forward so that it can sustain itself. 02:27:01
Wastewater. 02:27:12
The same situation now you can see that we did make an adjustment and we are tracking to where we will be able to sustain this 02:27:15
fund on our own. This is what we want to see so that we don't have to use general funds to supplement these funds on these 02:27:23
enterprise funds. Sorry. The next one is the storm water fund. You can see here, we have got a huge shortfall, but I think you're 02:27:30
all aware that we are currently working on a master plan and that will address and hopefully help to correct. 02:27:38
Some of this where the revenues are not enough to sustain and and pay for the expenses and then have a little bit of a cushion. 02:27:46
Same thing here with the transportation fund. We are in the current, we're currently doing a master plan for that. And again, this 02:27:54
is something that once that impact fee study and master plan is complete, we should see a correction in these numbers. 02:28:01
Here is the internal service fund that we were talking about briefly earlier. You can see that there is no increase going from. 02:28:10
24 to 25. In fact, there's actually a decrease. 02:28:19
A big part of that is we have started leasing vehicles instead of buying vehicles. And so the total cost per year has gone down. 02:28:24
Hey, Christy, do you mind pausing just for a second? Jake has a question for a comment. Yeah. 02:28:31
Go ahead. 02:28:38
Hey Christy, this looks like 5 minutes ago. Oh, sorry. 02:28:40
Can you say that again? You just, you just cut out for a minute? 02:28:50
Sorry, can you hear me now? Yeah, we can. 02:28:56
I understand that we have all of these apps and requests that make it like there's no way we're going to be able to pay for those 02:29:01
things. 02:29:05
But from a. 02:29:11
From a City Council and also a citizen standpoint, just understanding the financial asks of everything to see this is everything 02:29:14
that's out there is extremely helpful. 02:29:19
Hi to everyone to say hey as we cut it. Yeah, I know we're not going to. 02:29:28
It's not going to hit the final budget. 02:29:35
But it really does help people to prioritize things and approach in City Council member like, hey, they're asking for paint a 02:29:38
field or they're asking for soccer. They're like, I don't want to post it because that might not be in the final budget. So but it 02:29:44
might be helpful because then you see how little it is and they can say, well, actually that's kind of a prior to me. Let's keep 02:29:49
that on and cut something else, you know. 02:29:55
Jake. 02:30:01
Well, my anticipation is that you will be interacting with the citizens and as we meet with you and we go over this over the next 02:30:06
couple weeks, that you will be their voice. I obviously can't sit down with each individual citizen and talk about what they think 02:30:11
we should do. 02:30:16
And so I'm counting on you to represent them. 02:30:21
And again, that's why I feel like it's important that when we meet with you, we go through the line item details because not 02:30:26
everything is going to get approved. In fact, the budget that I'm presenting tonight will be completely different than what is 02:30:31
approved at the end of June. It's just that's the reality. 02:30:35
No, Jake. 02:30:45
Take the. 02:30:48
The packet the Vineyard City projected, well, no, but it's on the website as well. But I think, I think some of our concern is. 02:30:51
I mean, yeah, I mean, they already have access to it. People can look through it and you can see there, I don't know how many 02:31:01
pages of this. 02:31:05
33 yeah. So I think what you're asking for is already available. 02:31:10
I don't know. 02:31:17
OK, continue. 02:31:19
OK. 02:31:21
And this is just as we were talking about the internal service fund, this is where the revenue and expenses come in. This is the 02:31:25
breakdown that you were asking for earlier. You can see that the general fund has the largest contribution to the internal service 02:31:32
fund, but that's because it covers so many different departments, Parks and rec and finance and city manager, it covers so many 02:31:39
departments and that what that's why they have a higher percentage of the revenue that comes into the internal service fund. 02:31:46
Expenditures, you can see it broken out by the total expenses that are anticipated for next year. Again, this is just our best 02:31:55
projection and it is broken out by the number of vehicles that each. 02:32:01
Fund needs and the number of computers that are going to be replaced in each fund. And then the HR is done on a percentage of 02:32:08
total payroll so that we can say the general fund has this percentage of total payroll. And so that's how we apply the HR costs. 02:32:17
So it there is a method to what looks like madness to you? 02:32:26
Then the last one I wanted to talk about is the capital projects. This is something you're going to see something this year in the 02:32:33
proposed budget that you don't usually see and that is a transfer from capital projects into the general fund because we have 02:32:41
overspent and need to pull some of that fund back in to make sure that we have a healthy balance in the general fund. 02:32:48
These are just the proposed projects that are listed here on this page and the next page. And again, I expect these projects will 02:32:56
be very different at when it's all said and done. There will be some that are no longer on there. There will be others that have 02:33:03
been added that are not currently on there so. 02:33:09
Any questions on that? 02:33:16
Any questions? 02:33:19
Go ahead, Jake. 02:33:23
I think my concern is that a lot of this is still. 02:33:27
Miscellaneous 50,000. Miscellaneous 30,000. 02:33:34
Or meetings. 02:33:39
And it's a very just large numbers with no visibility of poor memberships in the final budget. Are we going to get details of like 02:33:42
fiscal World Trade Center Utah membership and this is the car and. 02:33:48
This is the 40,000 food we've been spending this high level. 02:33:56
Marty, did you have something? I, I was just saying it, Jake, you're asking for something more granular, right? You're asking for 02:34:03
something that you want to break down of. 02:34:07
Like, are you specifically asking like on capital projects? Are you asking for just everything in general? 02:34:13
Just just because I went through it in the last couple of days, it's still extremely, you know, some of the departments actually 02:34:21
increased in size, they're miscellaneous budget and it's like. 02:34:28
OK, I thought that was something we didn't more often wanted it very granular or meetings increased as well from what the letter 02:34:36
showed was it was just a bunch of food going out. So it's like doesn't really help us understand. I'm I'm all for employee 02:34:44
leading, you know, and having some parties like what parties are we improving and not and there's really very high level. 02:34:51
Jake, at our recent training down in Saint George, this very same question came up. And the point of a City Council is to set 02:35:02
legislative priorities and a budget that is then managed by a city administrator. And, and I get that there's a desire to dive in 02:35:12
and and look at the granular, but that is really the job of the city administrator and your job as a City Council is to determine. 02:35:22
Where do we want to allocate funds? 02:35:33
If we're talking public works, where do we want to allocate funds within public works? But but the specific details, we don't know 02:35:35
all the meetings, we don't know all the specific memberships that that is one of the jobs of the city administrators to is to 02:35:43
review those requests by department heads on a, on a case by case and make an informed decision with prudence based on the the 02:35:51
guidelines of the budget that has been set forth by the council on a on a specific basis. 02:35:59
And and if and if that was what the council wanted to do that what that would be a an administrative dive that that really isn't 02:36:07
the place of the City Council to be doing well. And additionally, I'm going to add to that. We additionally I'm gonna add to that 02:36:14
we do have the discussion for kind of what you're talking about for May 22nd. 02:36:21
To come back and you had talked about kind of wanting to dive into that policy. What if we save that discussion for that time and 02:36:30
as you guys are working individually making sure you can get what you need and if you don't have it what you need by the 22nd, you 02:36:35
can always discuss that with the Council. 02:36:41
Something your determination and then they can guide that policy can can we save that for that meeting? 02:36:47
Yeah. I mean, that's when we're going to dig into it, right? My only perspective, I understand that throughout the year, I, I 02:36:56
don't get, I don't get to micromanage the administrative side of the. 02:37:02
Hotels and travel around the world and stuff. This is my only time legislatively during the budget to see it. And so I, I would 02:37:09
push back and say I better see it, you know? 02:37:17
Detailed in order to approve it because this is my only time I don't get to micromanage you. I only get the opportunity now and I 02:37:27
feel like I have a right to granularly see it. So we'll talk about this on the 22nd. Thanks for your comment, Jake. All right, 02:37:32
continue. Continue, Christy. 02:37:38
Is that it? That's it, OK. Any additional comments on the tentative budget as it is? 02:37:44
That's tentative. I don't know if I saw that. No, I would just encourage you, Jake, to make sure to maybe make a goal to meet with 02:37:52
Christy so that if you have questions that maybe could be answered, like if you want to get more into the granular, it definitely 02:37:59
will take more time. And so I definitely think it'd be worth you setting up an appointment to sit down and see things. 02:38:07
We do need to make a motion on this. Yeah, I'll motion. 02:38:16
Go ahead, Marty. 02:38:21
I motion to approve. Hold on. 02:38:26
The proposed tentative fiscal year 2024 Dash 2025 budget as presented. OK, we have a motion to adopt by Marty, so I get a second 02:38:31
by Sarah. Any discussion? 02:38:38
If not, I'll do this by roll call. Oh, go ahead, Jake. 02:38:46
I only discussion similar to the RDA. I would never vote even on that sort of cut the budget unless it was fine item to be able to 02:38:50
do for my own, you know? 02:38:55
And just for the record, you mean more so than what's in the budget packet right now? 02:39:02
Yeah. 02:39:07
Understand meetings and food and. 02:39:11
Travel. You know on what you're what you're projecting to be doing, right? 02:39:14
Mayor, can I make a quick legal note? Yeah. So just just to so all the council members are clear what you're voting on today is 02:39:20
approval does not mean their acceptance does not mean approval. Acceptance means you've received it. You have it. This is the 02:39:28
tentative budget. There will be no approval until you approve the final budget. Yeah. And you're not agreeing with it or agreeing 02:39:35
that you've seen everything that you need. You're just accepting it in general. It's still your choice. 02:39:43
I could agree with that somewhat, but I think it's accepting it in the level of transparency that we would want it to be accepted. 02:39:51
I understand that. Okay, All right, Sarah. 02:39:57
Yesterday. 02:40:04
OK, Marty. Yes, yes, Jake. Amber is excused. All right, we'll go on to 9.3. This discussion in action was related to the Alpine 02:40:05
School District redistrict redistricting meeting that happened between Orem, Vineyard, Linden and Pleasant Grove. They have been 02:40:13
discussing an interlocal opportunity. There were a couple school districts. The school district had a few cities that went into 02:40:20
some interlocals and it left these four cities to have a discussion. 02:40:28
I'm going to let Marty, who's been doing a really great job representing, representing us as a council, to lead out on this 02:40:37
discussion where she can recap for you, if you weren't able to follow along, what some of the outcomes were of that discussion we 02:40:44
had with the interlocal discussion. And then additionally, she attended a meeting that Alpine School District put on to have a 02:40:51
further discussion on finances this afternoon. 02:40:58
And then we can have a quick discussion and and we'll go from there. Go ahead, Marty. There's a lot in this discussion just even 02:41:05
in the meeting this afternoon, there's a lot. But just to recap. 02:41:13
Alpine School District put out a went into a study. Results were provided with several different options. The school district is 02:41:26
in the is currently in the process of researching these different options and putting it onto and potentially putting on a 02:41:35
recommendation or an option that they think might be best for the district for our community. 02:41:43
Overall throughout the district to vote on. 02:41:53
Alongside that process, there's a new there was new legislation that was passed where cities can actually go into interlocal 02:41:57
agreements to create their own school districts. Now, the law is still something that everyone's trying to completely understand. 02:42:05
There's a lot of questions that still need to be answered or a lot of, I guess, unknowns just in this process. 02:42:13
And So what has currently happened is Saratoga, Eagle Mountain, Cedar Valley, and forgive me, there's another small town out 02:42:22
there, Cedar Fort. 02:42:27
Oh, did I take? What are they? 02:42:33
Oh, Fairfield and Cedar Fort, they went into an or they are beginning the process of going into an interlocal agreement. All four 02:42:37
cities out there voted to to start the process. And then in the same breath we have a central, so that's called our W option. In 02:42:46
the central location. We have Lehigh City, Alpine, Highland, Cedar Hills and American Fork that have signed or that have voted to 02:42:54
start the process of looking into and going into an interlocal agreement. 02:43:03
Both of those proposals or resolutions would go onto the ballot if approved within the timelines they have to meet and those would 02:43:12
be left for the citizens in their areas to vote on. So in consequence to both of those proposals, it leaves Vineyard, Pleasant 02:43:20
Grove, Orem and Linden in a potential school district. Whether we have the we have the option to go into an interlocal with these 02:43:28
three other cities or we have the option to not go into an interlocal. 02:43:36
And we could still end up as a school district depending on how the other two interlocal agreement proposals pan out. On top of 02:43:45
that factor, as I stated before, Alpine School District still has the potential to add on to the ballot a question or an option 02:43:52
that they think is best to potentially split our district. So there are so many moving parts. And last night we got together as 02:43:59
four city councils. 02:44:07
It was, it was one. It's the wonderful people. I've really enjoyed the process getting to know. 02:44:16
All the city councils from Orem, Linden and Pleasant Grove and what it's sounding like. 02:44:21
We have a, we have a, we have a need as a council to discuss. 02:44:28
Our desires whether or not to go into an interlocal with these other cities, but we kind of are tied. Our hands are a little bit 02:44:36
tied because Pleasant Grove and Linden have both publicly, well, Pleasant Grove has voted. 02:44:44
They will not go into an interlocal. So if an interlocal was created, Pleasant Grove is officially. 02:44:52
Out Linden has stated that they do not have interest in going through an interlocal, but they could and they have not put a vote 02:44:58
on their schedule to go into that or talk about it as a council publicly. So that leaves and then Orem, a split council. From what 02:45:05
I can understand you, it seems like part of their council would like to enter into an interlocal agreement and part of their 02:45:13
council wouldn't. So that leaves Vineyard and as a council we need to discuss. 02:45:21
That. 02:45:29
If. 02:45:31
Would have to schedule that meeting so we could vote on that and it has to be done by next Friday if we want to have the 02:46:10
opportunity, even though nobody might want to do it with us. 02:46:15
Noting the outcomes of that discussion. 02:46:59
There was a lot of information yesterday that was helpful, so I talked to Marty today. We have a teaspoon of information to make 02:47:08
this decision right And the most important thing. 02:47:14
I feel like is that we get all of all of the information out as best we can and then get it out to the public to see what you guys 02:47:21
how what, what you feel. 02:47:26
Like what you would like to see happen because it's there's people that feel really strongly in both ways, but I think education 02:47:32
is power. So, so we get the pros and cons to to both right A2 way split or the interlocals. And just I think what, what Mayor 02:47:40
Young said was if we, if we decide to do an interlocal, it gives us time. 02:47:49
Is that right? He did say that, yeah. So, yeah, because if we were to vote to start an interlocal, which like I said, we'd have to 02:47:58
make sure other cities would want to do that with us. But if we were to decide to start it, that would start the 45 day process 02:48:06
where we would have two public hearings and then we would get to research. We'd have to study it more as well, right? 02:48:14
So yeah, it does give you time to study it as a community. Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see. 02:48:23
Yeah. The pros and cons of an interlocal, I think it sounds like it could be good. So I guess the mayor's point is do we want to 02:48:32
just pick, because if the deadline's next Friday and no one else goes into it, then it's, do you agree that we wouldn't need to 02:48:38
vote on that? 02:48:44
Right. Not if not, if nobody invites us to the party. So maybe we put a tentative special meeting on the calendar close to Friday. 02:48:51
And if anyone else goes into it, yeah. 02:48:58
Does that sound like we can have that discussion? Additionally, I apologize I have like a mint in my mouth, my throat was itchy 02:49:04
but I just want to point out too if we don't go into an interlocal. 02:49:11
The sentiment was to ask the school district to create a survey. 02:49:20
That each community could send out and collect data from on what residents want to do to help their decision because. 02:49:26
Not only pending what we do, but no matter what we do, they have to make a determinate determination on July 12th and whether or 02:49:36
not they'll put initiative on their ballot. And so they'll make the decision that day. And so really understanding the pulse of 02:49:42
our community is something that we need to capture either way. 02:49:49
Did you have a comment or would you, should we just make a motion to go into A to retain that date? OK, go ahead. 02:49:57
I just think that this is really unfortunate. 02:50:08
I I, I feel like in that meeting there was some. 02:50:13
Bad feelings that we were walking into and. 02:50:19
Looking to the history of you know, or splitting without with ASD and watching that require not being at the table. 02:50:27
As in two years ago, a year ago. 02:50:37
And watching them argue over data and then ASD refusing they're not wanting to get over. And then the numbers shifting and 02:50:40
changing. 02:50:46
I think that opened up Pandora's box across the county. And I think that argument really, you know, Washington DC governments go 02:50:53
back and forth between opened up the eyes of the West side and and then obviously the bond not passing. 02:51:02
Has really helped the West side see the finances and they're not going to get schools. And so, you know, the West side voting 02:51:13
unanimously. 02:51:17
Across their six is a very strong message that they know financially it makes sense to them because of the bond. 02:51:23
Now seeing the central vote unanimously as well. 02:51:31
And I, and I think it has to do with trust all ten of those cities asked ASD, are you going to put something on the ballot? And 02:51:38
they perfectly well could speed up that decision and make some commitments and say we are going to commit to putting a two or 02:51:45
three-way split on the ballot, but they don't want to. Well, actually Jake, oh, wait, wait, let him finish. 02:51:52
Especially with the board's public comments of if they have their personal desire, they would prefer notebook to have them any. I 02:52:01
counseled by board members and said that in public meetings. 02:52:08
And so my my thing that I don't want for Vineyard to happen is to see what has happened in Orem of the city versus an organization 02:52:16
stronger together where there is just this pity each other. 02:52:24
And what I saw yesterday, you know, when I asked that question of Pleasant Rd. OK, so you know, you've got these ten cities. What 02:52:33
is your plan? And and their response goes, well, I'm going to get politically important to get involved. And I I, my heart just 02:52:40
hurt because I was like you, you as a Pleasant Grove City are going to go and get involved politically within the cities of 02:52:47
American Fork and Lehigh. 02:52:54
I just thought, OK, so we're gonna, we're gonna argue this out and and and I just don't think that's the role of another city to 02:53:02
go to another border. I mean, I could, I could have paid it with another city came in and we voters say this, we're gonna go, but 02:53:09
we're gonna go and get to your voters and, you know, change, change that vote and so. 02:53:16
So that's my first comment. Can Marty respond to you? She had a comment. See your comment. Yeah, there's a, there's a few points I 02:53:24
need to make sure to share because they're important. ASD is planning on voting on May 14th. I believe that they say 14th. I 02:53:32
thought it was 12/1 of those days. So it's before the deadline for the other cities. They're planning on having their vote to say 02:53:39
whether or not they would put something on the ballot and what it is. 02:53:46
And so that that is happening, yeah, that's the date I was given. And if I'm, if I'm wrong, no, no, I thought you meant July 12th 02:53:54
for the finals, but you mean no, that's May 14th. Is the preemptive, is that what you're talking about? 02:54:01
And then they would go through the process and then they would submit it to the county by by July 12th. So I think that's 02:54:10
important to recognize that that next week they are going to be sharing their intent with us. 02:54:17
Be it however their council or their board votes. And then another thing. There's two other things I want to address that you 02:54:24
said. There is one important thing that I wanted to make sure the public knew. 02:54:30
Jamie, could you answer the question lease, revenue bond? 02:54:37
Does that go on a ballot or is that something a board could vote through? 02:54:42
Do you know? 02:54:47
Anyone. 02:54:49
Yeah. So the school district, I guess I'll explain what she's talking about, the two different bonds, one that that one that 02:54:52
failed on the ballot and then the additional that could be put in without a little more detail on. So the context of it is I 02:55:00
attended a meeting today where they discussed, they discussed numbers that were incorrect from the MTG study that the school 02:55:07
district hired and they were fixing everything. And then they added some extra slides and said. 02:55:15
Now listen, no matter what happens like split option 3 for whatever happens, there's still this possibility of an A lease revenue 02:55:22
bond going through for 2024 that would get Saratoga Springs. I don't know how many 100 million, I have it in my notes, I'm sorry. 02:55:30
But there is a large bond that would be put that could be pushed through with the way I see it. And what would happen is we would 02:55:38
be splitting. 02:55:46
That cost with a split. So I said that really poorly. I apologize. So I think I understand what you're saying. I I can get you an 02:55:54
answer. The rules for school districts are different than the rules for cities. So I need to do a little bit of research to make 02:56:00
sure. So if that bond happens. 02:56:06
And splits happen, then the debt of that bond will be divided. 02:56:14
And 20% of that debt goes with Saratoga Westside School District and then. 02:56:20
80% would go to either a east side school district or a, you know, 40-30 something split, 40 something to 30 something split 02:56:27
between Lehigh Central District and what would be the, you know, they call it EI think we're South of the four cities. And I think 02:56:34
it's important to pay attention to what Marty's articulating because what she's saying is if they vote on that bond before the 02:56:41
interlocal splits occur. 02:56:49
Then even with, well, once the interlocals occur and the school districts are split, the bond wouldn't matter because each 02:56:57
district would go into it by themselves. But if like you're saying, they vote on it in 2024, what Marty is saying really well is 02:57:04
that that bond becomes all of our shared debt. And so even if they interlocals occur and three districts happen, they divide that 02:57:11
like a marriage. 02:57:18
And so the important, the importance of this is to say when you're going to the school district, if these interlocals are 02:57:26
occurring, if an initiative is going to the ballot, you wouldn't necessarily want to pass a bond that then gets divided between 02:57:33
however the mapping works out at the end. And that question I can't answer because a lease revenue bond on like a general 02:57:40
obligation is tied to specific facilities and the payments on those specific facilities. 02:57:48
So however they're divided up and moved around, those obligations would remain in some form. 02:57:56
And I think one thing that I want to note just for the record, because I think that the narrative and I'm sorry, Jack, I know you 02:58:03
have another comment. 02:58:06
Umm, this goes hand in hand with Pleasant Groves. Umm, your comment with Pleasant Grove. I don't agree with Pleasant Grove's 02:58:11
desire to get involved with Lehigh Central proposal. Umm, I don't condemn them for it either. I'm just saying that I would choose 02:58:19
not to be that just because I understand Lehigh's desires to split. And I respect that. They have their reasons and I respect that 02:58:27
whatever we decide, we have our reasons. But I do understand that there are. 02:58:34
Pleasant Grove is deeply affected by all of this and so their their choice to go on the offense and attack politically. 02:58:43
Is frankly their choice. 02:58:53
The can I add to that? Yeah, I would say, and we'd have to go listen to the minutes. But I feel like what I heard was when you 02:58:55
asked do you want to do nothing? And they said what we want to do is take action by doing nothing and that we want the school 02:59:02
board to make the decision. 02:59:08
I don't know if their intent was to say they were going to rally and breakdown the initiative of Lehigh rather heavily support the 02:59:16
initiative in a ballot item that Alpine School District put in. I think to say any more than that from what I remember would be 02:59:23
out mischaracterizing them. But we would have to read the minutes, you know, and I think that's a fair statement. I I don't ever 02:59:31
want to speak for them. And so I thank you, Mayor, for that clarification. 02:59:39
And then I will say lastly that at the end of the day, there's two mangoes I have for not only Vineyard City, for the entire 02:59:48
school district is there are children in need of new facilities out on the West side. And there is a circumstance where we might 02:59:56
have to help pay for it. And I know it's not great and I'm deeply concerned about the tax burden to our community, but I am also 03:00:03
deeply concerned about children not having a place, a safe place. 03:00:11
To learn and so I think that there is a huge balance here in in all of the things happening but my number one concerns as a 03:00:19
representative for Vineyard City Council is what can I do to help our students have continued good high value education, high 03:00:26
standard education while keeping our tax dollars low and so. 03:00:33
To move forward on any position, I would need proof that this would be the best step for both of those circumstances. OK, go 03:00:42
ahead, Jake. 03:00:47
Thanks for taking time. 03:00:54
That's how I took it. We're going to go and the comments after the meeting and what they were going to be organizing, I was like, 03:00:58
I just don't think that you guys don't go into Lehigh America or you know, but. 03:01:11
But my, the other thing though, is it comes back to trust, you know, when, when Aura, when sorry, when AFD gave data that wasn't 03:01:25
good and it was corrected. And even today, like in talking to ASD again, had to correct their data, they were off by 20 million 03:01:35
today, right? Or 18 or 20 million on having to correct the numbers for the West side in, in today's meeting in which category? 03:01:44
Are we legally keeping the door open and having an option? 03:02:40
Especially because the legislature is for the county what they didn't even know what government body was going to rule it to 03:02:45
agenda. If two items are on the vote, which one supersedes? Is it the city supersedes the school district or not? And so I was 03:02:55
just so disappointed because it was like, wow, I would love to have oxygen on the table as data changes and. 03:03:05
I think the discussion really involved a couple things. You had a group that was saying, hey, let's be proactive in sending a 03:03:51
message that we want a three district split and let's send a message saying that we're going to act in this direction because this 03:04:00
is what we feel is kind of best. And the other group was saying, hey, I feel like it would be better for all of us if it was 03:04:08
Lehigh down to Orem and if we take the stands to. 03:04:17
Enter in this interlocal because we're leftover, then we're sending a message for the July 12th meeting that we're OK with a 03:04:26
different option than the option 3, which was the two split. And since they had a desire for the two way split versus the 03:04:33
three-way split it they were taking a proactive approach and not sending a message. Because when you do 3 interlocals as was 03:04:40
discussed, it's these preemptive interlocals that kind of sends a message across, you know? 03:04:47
If you guys want to continue this discussion to to bring more things forward, I think it's good and I'll turn that time back over 03:06:07
to you, Jake. But otherwise, we could make a motion. Jake, go ahead. 03:06:12
So I I filled a phone call from a very large group out of Lehigh today that called me that is pro toothless and they were so angry 03:06:18
that was so funny. There are their thought was that taking their local from a group like Pleasant Grove that is for two doing an 03:06:28
interlocal would allow the four cities to come together to do a study to show better data. 03:06:38
To that would back up a two district slip and there they were really frustrated that there isn't a good local agreement between 03:06:49
the four and a study Commission because they felt like Pleasant Grove and Orem that is the their council is. 03:06:59
Pro tea waistlet right So they can put some data together to. 03:07:09
Three ways, but we wouldn't be agreeing to study not a two way split and that would cause. 03:07:54
No to go into an interlocal agreement. 03:08:01
Study this freeway, but we also want to understand the finances of A2 way we still could do that. 03:08:07
You just want to have the opportunity to go into a three if you thought it was relevant, but if it was 3, then you could go into a 03:08:15
2. But I think we've exhausted the point and I I think we have an opportunity to do it again. 03:08:20
Next week, if that opportunity comes to us, what if we make a motion and we belabor it then? 03:08:27
Eric, did you have something? 03:08:36
Comment is this is that? 03:08:38
I love the comment from pleasant room with the ladies that I don't sit on the school board. And I would echo that as well. I don't 03:08:41
sit on the school board. I don't cancel. And this type of massive decision should be involving 50, a hundred, 200 citizens just 03:08:48
within venue. They're really, really well educated. And I wonder if doing a Zoom town hall, Marty, you're the leader of the 03:08:56
education sentiment of like next Tuesday. You could. 03:09:03
Have a human a you know, and, and have people from maybe you, you were there and I'm there. I think it would be very helpful to 03:09:12
say this is being thrown on us and we're we didn't do zoom like Tuesday night or something like that. I think it could really show 03:09:19
that we want to gather and just say, come and talk to us. Come and talk to us. We just want to hear your voice. We want to hear a 03:09:26
different perspective would be very helpful. 03:09:32
I purposely didn't want this. Our town hall scheduled over the next two weeks and I'm in full mom mode with soccer, baseball and 03:09:41
in school year. I know I need to. I would love to engage the community in it but I can't commit to next week without missing some 03:09:48
important things. Well I can say this if if they offer us to go into an interlocal and that's what the council decides, you'll 03:09:56
have 45 days to really take have the time to talk to our residents if that's the case. 03:10:04
OK. And Marty, did you confirm next the 17th? I thought it was the 11th. 03:10:52
We could go back and look at the attorney, he said. Next Friday. Next Friday, Jake, is that what you remember in that meeting when 03:10:58
they attended? 03:11:03
Is it? 03:11:10
It looks like it is the 14th. 03:11:14
And we would only have Monday or this Friday. 03:11:17
Yeah. 03:11:24
All right. 03:11:26
So presumably Monday Friday is the deadline. 03:11:28
From a city that wants partner. 03:11:33
Oh, please make your comment. 03:11:40
And then just for clarity on this Friday is when we would receive it. We can reach out to those cities. I'd be happy to do that or 03:11:43
happy to have staff do that. And then we take that deadline. And if that's the case, we will notice it for Monday. 03:11:52
And how about we keep 6:00? 03:12:01
I think her parents that's too early. 03:12:06
It's too early for parents. 03:12:09
I think that's true. They're just getting them out from other activities and trying to get. 03:12:11
Oh, thank you. That was from Karen. She said she felt like that was too early. I apologize for not having that on the record. And 03:12:16
what I will say to that is this, this would just put us into an opportunity for an interlocal. I think between that time, each 03:12:22
council person can go out to their people and their constituents and go look for it. And then we can do something broader after 03:12:29
that. So can we retain this time on everybody's schedule? OK, if that is the motion, that would be Monday at 6:00. 03:12:36
OK, now that motion hasn't been made. Marty, you had a comment. I'm OK. Marty's OK. OK. I need motion, though. 03:12:45
I'm going to say something. 03:12:57
I feel like it would be disingenuous to not share that I have a lot of concerns with starting the process of an interlocal. 03:12:59
And I, I do feel that that Alpine School district, I'm looking forward to hearing from them more, as in Sid Lemons comments she 03:13:08
was saying. 03:13:13
Her intent in that statement was saying that she feels that it's best in the hands of the school district. They are voted by their 03:13:19
constituents to be handling school district needs and this new legislation has changed and put in a very complicated decision that 03:13:27
I've been studying for 2 1/2 years. It constantly has ever changing numbers that it's hard to get a specific on. And so I do not 03:13:35
love this new legislation and I feel that leaving it in the hands of Alpine School District is how. 03:13:43
It should be and so I just wanted to be, I wanted to be forthcoming and sharing publicly that I am against and then a local but 03:13:51
knowing that my council might not feel the same way as me. I respect the process and I would be willing to meet and obviously 03:13:58
discuss this further. Great. Is that a motion? 03:14:04
To potentially have a special session on Monday May 13th. 03:14:13
Sarah seconded. All in favor. Aye, All right. 03:14:56
It's really late, but if you have something that you've been working on, Marty, you belabor jurors and the really positive 03:15:02
belabored way, you know, just like the next meeting. But do you have anything else to add? No, no, thank you. Okay, Sarah, Jake, 03:15:07
do you have anything to add? 03:15:11
Yeah, we went through the process. 03:15:18
I would like to engage the right department on travel policies, the food, miscellaneous and vehicle and rewriting those. Is anyone 03:15:23
leading that effort there that I take the first stab at it with meeting with Eric and and the staff to make sure we have the right 03:15:31
policies. OK, so right, right now I have. 03:15:39
Identified travel budgets. Review per diem policy. Review hotel policy. 03:15:48
Looking for potential savings in unneeded software and review how often vehicles leave the county all being worked on to present 03:15:53
to the council to then go into something more detailed at that point. But that is all going to be coming forward. And then if the 03:16:00
council wants to move forward with additional changes or if you want to add to that, what I can do is I can schedule you into 03:16:06
those meetings. Would that work for you? 03:16:13
Yeah. 03:16:21
If those are going to be done before we do the budget, yes, that's just like I told you, those we're going to put that along with 03:16:24
the budget. Yeah. So I have all of those prepared for you. 03:16:29
I didn't see a date on this budget in my last working session requesting the World Trade Center and aerospace beyond this meeting. 03:16:38
Did you put a date on? Yeah, So I sent an e-mail back to have the quarterly reports and the World Trade Center reviews started or 03:16:45
implemented right now. And then I have it on. They're going through and they're going to assess all of those details and get them 03:16:52
all together. And then as soon as that's done, I will put it on an agenda. 03:16:59
And I said a deadline for the meeting, the first meeting in August. But if we clear time, I can bump it up and if the work has 03:17:06
been done by our staff, I'll bump that sooner. Does that work? 03:17:13
These are budget items, so we would need to discuss these in the budget, right? If you, if the City Council was going to add 03:17:21
anything to the budget on them, we could. Since there's no request for it going in, we don't need to. And if there was something 03:17:27
further that could happen with it, it could go through an amendment. 03:17:32
So I just thought that would workout timeline. 03:17:39
Well, I would like. 03:17:43
To make a motion that we do this before the budget on both of those aerospace and. 03:17:48
Yes, we do have a different presentation. You have wanted to review policy and costs and benefits and it's going to take some time 03:17:55
to get those things together. 03:18:01
So I thought that was a little bit more robust than just having some people come in and talk to us. If we can schedule something 03:18:09
out in between that time and it fits on the agenda, I'd be happy to put that on. I have all of your priorities outlined and I 03:18:14
will. 03:18:19
Set it up in priority and send you things and ask you which ones you want to rotate off. 03:18:25
Two different council. 03:18:31
Utah membership started in April. 03:18:34
So. 03:18:37
Chances of getting a refund or diminished weekly on full refund? 03:18:38
OK, I see your ask. 03:18:43
I will discuss internally with staff and then come back to you on that. Is that OK? 03:18:47
Yeah, I'm just gonna bring it up weekly until we get this. Yeah, I, I appreciate that. And then we can talk about your priorities 03:18:54
and see which ones we can put on. So. All right. 03:18:59
Moving on the next day, David Pearson. 03:19:08
We do have that visitor, our constituent, with us today. 03:19:12
David reached out to me, the Goodman he is, and he brought to my attention a cement for picking your Blackhawk or cement into the 03:19:17
water basin. Can we? 03:19:22
Describe it later, but I agree with him as well. I think he grabs water basin is overflowed parking at Grove Park dysfunction 03:19:29
really well. I believe it was 1.2 million or 1.5 million. I don't know if you talked about it, but there was a, there was a 03:19:37
request from council. So each of us received that letter and we are really excited about receiving it. But there was a request 03:19:45
that he mentions it at the next council meeting when we talk about the budget versus extending tonight's meeting. 03:19:53
Would that be OK? 03:20:01
It's past his bedtime. 03:20:04
For the record, that was from David Pierce. 03:20:07
Make sure you get that. And then he asked a question about methodologies and, you know, whether we split or not in the school 03:20:10
district colleges in the state of thing. The thing that's different is I've worked with the surplus warehouse in State Street for 03:20:18
18 years. For public group, we will need to be potentially building a bus garage and a administration building either two or 03:20:26
three, you know, plus size. So the methodology would stay the same, but they would. 03:20:33
Need to do bonding or something for those additional buildings. So taxes would certainly be come up without us on that and no one 03:20:41
would help. That's what's so scary is the cloud over it. And then his third question, which was planning for the future. I, I 03:20:49
agree with him planning for a City Hall. You know, the side of the 87,000 square foot one. I agree with definitely planning. I 03:20:56
mean, I think my uncle's and father started to plan for the City Hall 15 years ago. 03:21:03
It's just more of not stopping the plan, but just when is the time when you actually build that there's one of the say you don't 03:21:11
stop, but. 03:21:15
And then we already talked about the 24 hours. 03:21:20
Agenda, My only request is we need to like even tonight the RDA slide or the change of government slides that JBUS or the City 03:21:24
Hall design slides. It's just so helpful when we put together a city packet that not only is the notices and everything, but just 03:21:31
these are the slides that are going to be presented because so many people will review before and come a better question. So I 03:21:38
would like to have part of the policy and that's all I have. 03:21:45
Um. 03:21:54
We are adjourned. Thank you for coming tonight. 03:21:56
Thanks guys, love you all. 03:22:01
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