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All right. 00:00:04
Oh good, let's follow up after this meeting. 00:00:09
OK, Thank you all for being here tonight. Today is July 10th, 2024 and that's the year and the time is 601 and we're going to 00:00:13
start our Vineyard City Council meeting. Our our Councilwoman Sarah Cameron is going to lead us in a invocation and Pledge of 00:00:21
Allegiance. 00:00:28
My dear Father in heaven, we come before the at the beginning of this Council meeting. 00:00:40
To ask for your guidance and direction and the things that we do and the things that we decide and we pray that that we will have 00:00:45
a spirit of peace and. 00:00:50
Collaboration together. 00:00:56
We ask that we will be mindful to always strive to protect the freedoms that that are provided in our our country through your. 00:00:59
Through your divine protection, we love thee and say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:10
All right. Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:17
All right, that moves us right into our work session. We're going to start with a presentation on the Water's Edge Home 00:01:38
Association. We had some questions from some of our council and we kind of wanted to review how the Water's Edge Homeowners 00:01:45
Association works in relation to the council, and I'm going to let our legal counsel lead out on that. 00:01:52
Jamie, did you want to give us an introduction and then our council can ask any questions they might have? Sure. Thank you, Mayor. 00:01:58
This will be a very general reflection on what HOA's are relative to what city governments are and where how they might overlap. 00:02:07
There may be details about the specific situation in Water's Edge that'll require some additional look or some additional 00:02:14
conversation. But what I understand generally is that some members of the community have approached the city and said, city, can 00:02:21
you take over the HOA? 00:02:28
And the short answer to that is no, cities can't on their own take over HOA's. HOA's are created by private property covenants. 00:02:36
Those covenants are created pursuant to state legislation, but they are private property rights. And when a developer establishes 00:02:43
an HOA or a community establishes an HOA, they do it with the consent of all the land owners within that community, often with HO 00:02:51
as. 00:02:58
Created by a developer. They have a period of time where the developer will control the HOA and then once a certain threshold of 00:03:05
units are sold, it's often between 50 and 75% of units. 00:03:12
The control of the HOA will shift from the developer controlling it to the residents in the community electing their own, or I 00:03:20
shouldn't say residents, the home owners within the community electing their own representatives to the HOA board or the 00:03:25
committee. 00:03:30
Depending on what it's called in the in the different Hoas. So it wouldn't be appropriate for the city to assert itself and assume 00:03:36
control of an HOA. To do so would be to to take away the private property rights that those homeowners enjoy. There are some 00:03:44
things HO as do that look and feel a lot like government. They, they can make assessments, they can enforce their rules and their 00:03:52
requirements within the purview of their governing documents and what they state. 00:04:00
There also is property that Hoas own in common, which means all of the residents of the HOA own those properties together, manage 00:04:08
those properties together. They can hire somebody to do the management, the maintenance and the work on it, but they own it in 00:04:16
common is the legal term. And often cities are asked by Hoas that haven't maintained their common areas appropriately to take on 00:04:24
the maintenance because. 00:04:31
There's no other vehicle or tool to do it, or they simply wish for things like private roads, private parks to no longer be 00:04:40
private roads and private parks, but to be public roads and public parks that are owned and controlled by the city. I'm not aware 00:04:47
of the city making any attempt to try to insert itself into the situation that any particular HOA at the city, but I I know there 00:04:55
have been from time to time requests from residents. 00:05:02
Asking why, why isn't the city doing this? And really the answer is it's because it's common property controlled by the HOA and 00:05:10
it's their responsibility and not the cities. So that's kind of a general rough overview of how property rights work with an HOA 00:05:18
relative to the city. And I'm happy if there are more specific questions to answer those to the best of my ability. We may get to 00:05:26
a point where the answer will have to be, we'd have to pull the private covenants, see what they say. 00:05:34
And then we can determine what the right answer is. But. 00:05:42
With that, excellent. Thank you. Are there any questions by the City Council? 00:05:46
Yeah, I have one because there have been a few of the citizens that have that have asked about. 00:05:52
The ability to have their own, it's Hoas are kind of scattered throughout the city, right. So you have lakefront that has their 00:05:59
own. And so some of the neighborhoods were wondering what it would take to be able to pull out of the main one and establish their 00:06:07
own. So they have more autonomy and decisions in there. Yeah, great question. They would so. 00:06:14
A private attorney could advise them on that. If there were overlap between city issues and their issues, I would not be able to 00:06:23
advise them because I'd be conflicted out, but I could put them in touch with somebody that could help them on that. Where where 00:06:31
you would want to look if you have that kind of question is to pull your, it'll be called your covenants conditions. 00:06:38
And restrictions or CNR, sometimes it will be called the declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions. And so they'll 00:06:46
call it the declaration for short. But if you have, they used to call them master and servant Hoas, they've gone away from that 00:06:52
because that language is loaded. 00:06:58
A little bit. And so they'll call it a controlling HOA and then subordinate HOA's where you have that situation, the control you'd 00:07:05
you'd have to 1st pull the CCNR for the controlling HOA and then it would have in it provisions for how many votes would be 00:07:13
required to modify the covenants. And if they were to able to assemble enough votes to meet that threshold, then they could modify 00:07:21
the covenants, record those changes. 00:07:28
And either do away with the controlling HOA and, and revert to where they have, you know, the sub HOA, then become the only HOA or 00:07:37
modify it. There will be a lot of moving parts when they do that just because of how they all interrelate and work together. And 00:07:44
they'll have bank accounts and finances and things like that to work through. But you can do it. OK, OK, thank you. Any other 00:07:51
questions? 00:07:58
I think this is a classic example of like if I think if this were on the agenda, the topic and we advertised this like a week 00:08:08
longer, I think we would get more citizen ideas or input on this. But with it 24 hours I don't have any questions is a good 00:08:15
example of like could we, we and we talked about that. 00:08:22
This is a work session, correct? 00:08:31
So we're not voting on anything. 00:08:33
It's like I'm just saying I can't. I've been talking to quite a few of them over the last few months. And so this was kind of my, 00:09:08
yeah, kind of something I've been working on. So I have been talking about them. I didn't realize we were going to talk about it. 00:09:14
Right. I'm just saying like as a rule, we keep talking about information and we can take it back to the timing of, hey, this is a 00:09:22
week out and Jake, I agree with you. So I would like to still see that on the agenda. I don't remember when it's planned and 00:09:28
sooner the better. I think what we're missing and I think what I hopefully can clarify is this. 00:09:35
Where I can't, if it conflicts with my duties to the city, I can refer them to a capable lawyer who can give them an initial 00:10:57
consultancy direction. Excellent, thank you so much. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to 3.2 X Development parking proposal 00:11:04
and Eric Turner with X Development Will. 00:11:11
Introduce this topic to the Council. Come on up. 00:11:19
Eric Downer, Next Development. 00:11:26
Eric Towner X Development. 00:11:31
Is there a way to provide another microphone so that the recording touches it? 00:11:37
That'd be fine. 00:11:43
Can we use the other staff on the longer staff? Yeah. 00:11:48
But not I think it's. 00:11:52
Let's see how that's working. Eric Towner with X Development. Are you catching that, Pam? Perfect. Let's go. OK. Yeah, we are here 00:12:03
to have a discussion, an open discussion in a work session setting. This is not an application for anything. This is to help us 00:12:10
prepare for an application more than anything else. 00:12:17
To get some feedback before we spend more time, more energy, more effort and especially more money into design and development 00:12:25
looking. And I think our development agreement actually requires us to come back and have these discussions generally about a, a 00:12:34
usually a hot button topic within the city is, is parking. So we do have the yard mixed-use which is within the RMU zone. 00:12:43
We've developed almost 40 acres there of commercial property. The remaining 4 acres is has been previously approved for a 00:12:53
mixed-use building. So why we're here today is just to have these discussions so that we can prepare better for an application 00:13:01
which would be what we understood to finalize the the development agreement or to amend the development agreement that we were. We 00:13:08
were required to complete some studies before we could move forward with the project. 00:13:16
So. 00:13:23
December 8, 2021 City Council approved of the mixed-use building. Approximately like 340 units were approved at that time. 00:13:26
Or 350 units or something. We're quite a bit below that with what we've been able to obtain with our architect and how it will fit 00:13:33
with the height requirements and everything that we have in there. We'll get into that in just a second. Wanted to make sure that 00:13:41
you are aware of some of the findings that we have. We have hired third party engineers and so we'll discuss that today. Want to 00:13:49
make sure that our parking proposals that are going to going to be coming forth to a City Council meeting as a. 00:13:56
An amendment to the development agreement still align with the goals of the city and and the recommendations of the third party 00:14:05
engineers and the need that we have to actually develop the building. I wanna confirm that the city's goals are still the same 00:14:10
today. It's been I think almost two years since we had this approval on this property, about a year and a half and we've spent a 00:14:16
significant amount of time and resources and energy into creating what I I think is going to be a potentially a really good 00:14:22
project. 00:14:28
Yeah, discuss the future application that we'll make for an amendment to the development agreement. And then also some things 00:14:35
maybe have changed or have not changed with 400 N and discussed exactly what the goals that the city has for 400 N It would help 00:14:41
us better prepare that that application when we do come with that. 00:14:46
OK, so here's what we've heard in previous meetings tracking the city for the last year and a half since our, our, our approval. 00:14:54
You know, we, we believe that it's an appropriate place for for the mixed-use project. It it seemed like that was the case two 00:15:01
years ago when it was approved that it's an appropriate place for a, a next use project. That third party engineering studies 00:15:08
would be required of us is in the current development agreement as we understand it to determine actual infrastructure. 00:15:16
For impacts, water use, sewer use and parking need and a parking requirement. We've completed some of the third party engineering 00:15:24
studies to this point, particularly with traffic. As we understand this will add traffic to 400 N, This will add traffic within 00:15:31
our shopping center and there will be a parking need. Also. The engineering studies were done based off of our plans for a 00:15:39
controlled parking garage, parking management plans, I think in the development agreement. 00:15:46
Required. So we just wanted to see before we finalize those plans, if there's any input from City Council for what those parking 00:15:53
management plans would look like. 00:15:57
We believe and we've heard commercial development is a priority for City Council. This is a mixed-use building that contemplates 00:16:04
the. 00:16:07
In our eyes, a substantial amount of square footage of the main level area to be used for retail purposes and commercial purposes. 00:16:11
Just making sure the quality of life for all Vineyard cities is Vineyard Residences is still critical for the city council's 00:16:20
mission. Obviously, that's probably remaining true need a city with a a variety of incomes and and, and all citizens need to be 00:16:27
accommodated for that. We believe this this housing project will will significantly enhance. 00:16:34
The ability for residents to come here and stay here. This will be a fun place for people to live. Pedestrian bicycle access is a 00:16:42
priority for City Council. We've heard that several times in the past. Want to make sure that's still a goal or something we 00:16:48
should be for sure incorporating into this project or if it's changed. City views on 400 N as an important east West connection. 00:16:55
If the city has goals of connecting that to the residential side of Vineyard West of the tracks, eventually obviously through into 00:17:01
Orem. 00:17:07
Through Geneva Rd. 00:17:14
Work, play, eat, recreate, all without having to get out of their car. Man, the zoning code is tough to actually list that out. 00:17:51
You'd probably be 1000 pages if you were trying to actually define exactly what the requirements would be to accomplish that. And 00:18:00
and things change a little bit over time as well. So what we believe is that. 00:18:08
The appropriate process that that we're hoping to take and that we thought through the development agreement was agreed upon is 00:18:16
that we would rely on 3rd party engineers and outside studies and have an active feedback through the process of of how the design 00:18:20
of the mixed-use building would go. 00:18:25
Within a shopping center. 00:18:29
This is the site we're talking about. 00:18:32
Thank everybody familiar with it. 00:18:35
Like I said, this is the remaining site that we have. We don't have any more lands within the yard shopping center. We've got a 00:18:37
couple of pads available that we're hoping to start construction soon on the North End. That's pretty much it. Mountain America 00:18:44
Credit Union is scheduled to open pretty soon. And I think that building looks really good, by the way. OK, next. And Eric, just 00:18:52
don't worry at the council in case they're not seeing full facility, but this is Mill Road, 400 N here and then obviously Geneva. 00:18:59
Yes, and currently 400 N is closed. It's under construction or improvements for Central Utah water and some other infrastructure 00:19:07
items. 00:19:11
This was one of our previous concept plans that we're working with through the development agreement process. You know, very 00:19:15
simple, just trying to do a test fit to see, you know, what would be the appropriate amount of units potentially to bring in here. 00:19:22
At that time we were thinking around 340 units, 350 units somewhere in that area. As we spent significantly more resources and 00:19:28
done more studies and looked at market need and whatnot, it's changed a little bit. If you can go to the next. 00:19:35
Site plan. 00:19:43
Updated site plan brings it down to about 302 units, so less units actually for this site. A little bit different of a mix between 00:19:45
two-bedroom, one bedroom and studio, but like I said, we relied pretty heavily on outside. 00:19:53
Consultants to to direct us as to how to design this, but this is this is getting pretty close to what we'd like to. It's not 00:20:03
finalized and we'll hopefully have a more final version once we apply for a finalization of the development agreement through that 00:20:07
amendment. 00:20:12
Still maintaining the commercial square footage on that main level of about 14,000 square feet. 00:20:19
Vineyards parking requirements for 302 units currently would be 628. 00:20:27
Total stalls with the commercial involved as well. 00:20:33
Our reports came back from Hales Engineering. 00:20:37
If you go to the next slide. 00:20:42
Hills Engineering, um. 00:20:47
They look at the yard overall currently saying, and I don't know if I need to go back into history. I know City Council has 00:20:49
changed quite a bit since we've started developing, but the megaplex was developed by another developer. We acquired all the 00:20:54
surrounding property around the megaplex. 00:20:59
Obviously significant severely under parked the megaplex was we've tried really hard to solve some of their problems or fix some 00:21:05
of their problems, but our our current and and even gone to the extent of helping. 00:21:12
The Edgewater The HOA Edgewater in accommodating them with some of our land to create a parking, a parking field for them. 00:21:19
As doing so, I think we've been extremely conservative for our parking and and I know that's been a requirement of City Council 00:21:29
that we push parking and push parking and push parking. What what was resulted is we are a little bit over parked in the yard 00:21:36
currently right now and and Hails Engineering is has updated us to that and we can have them talk to it. Hails Engineering's ITE 00:21:44
recommendations for this next use building would be 422 stalls, roughly 200 stalls less than the current city code would require. 00:21:51
I'm not proposing that we go down that low. I'm just that's that's where their third party reports came in a comparable property. 00:22:01
Two hours. 00:22:05
Is that improv or can you say that again? It's too low, The code is too low. Like the code would require like 628 stalls for 302 00:22:12
units. 00:22:17
Engineering standards would recommend 422. 00:22:23
Knowing that this is a parking structure, a controlled parking structure, is how they study it, but we're not proposing that we go 00:22:27
down to 422. By the way, I'm just this is the result of the development agreement requiring me to present a report. 00:22:34
When we come in for our final application, comparable property would require $348 obvious I think too low as well. We developed 00:22:42
two actual need is, is what our hope is. We don't want to have fast parking fields that are empty. We don't want to have tenants 00:22:50
who don't have the ability to park either. I think there's an appropriate way to get to the the accurate number, but that that is 00:22:58
a result of the the Hills engineering study and Hales is here right now if you guys want to ask them any questions. 00:23:06
They're going to a lot more detail when we actually do this, but you guys have a need to ask any questions of Hales. 00:23:14
Today. 00:23:21
Does anybody want to ask any questions? 00:23:23
Not right now what it looks like. 00:23:26
What we're likely this is not final at all. This is what our architect has come up with at this point, likely to create about 503 00:23:31
new stalls. 00:23:37
That would be above and beyond what our partner in Austin, TX, the multi family and mixed-use developer that we're partnering with 00:23:45
on this building, above and beyond what they would request us to build. But this is something that I think we would push to have 00:23:52
them build, understanding that this community is a little sensitive to parking requirements, Cross parking. Currently right now we 00:23:58
have 58 unused stalls at the yard on the South end. 00:24:04
And we believe the type of commercial use that will be coming into this building. 00:24:12
Eyebrow waxing insurance agents, executive tweets for people who want to work from home or Zoom meetings. Those are those are the 00:24:19
types that come in too. It's not going to be like a cafe, real restaurant or something like that at the base level of an apartment 00:24:25
building. These are smaller little retailer or private training suites type type retail uses. And if you're interested, we can 00:24:31
bring in at the next meeting. 00:24:37
A lot of examples what other mixed-use buildings have for that tenant mix. 00:24:44
So that's something that does anybody have any questions about this number or any comments to this number? Did you attach health 00:24:50
parking study on this or is that something that we can meet with them at a later point and talk about? Yeah, I think is that 00:24:55
something that. 00:25:00
You have it? Yeah, it's up right now. 00:25:06
OK. 00:25:09
This is their, their, their memo. So I mean they may have more data that they put put together their summary memo and I'm sure 00:25:13
that they can speak to that they're here. 00:25:18
Yeah. And I think Hales is open for, I mean, Joseph is here right now. 00:25:24
I think they'd be open for any type of discussion or meeting without us present. If you guys need that, that's great. Just the 00:25:30
idea that we have it on file so we can go review and then set up those meetings, I think is very helpful. Thank you. 00:25:36
OK. 00:25:48
So that that would be something that we're looking to discuss in in much more detail at a City Council meeting, in more of a back 00:25:49
and forth with with public comment. 00:25:54
And something that maybe prior to that we can get the full engineering study to you all so that you're much more prepared and much 00:26:01
more educated prior to that City Council meeting structured parking. We have not finished our parking management plan. Do you, is 00:26:06
there any? 00:26:11
The previous City Council had had some ideas for a parking management plan for a structured garage parking. I don't think there is 00:26:18
one in the city today. Are there any buildings today with structured parking in Vineyard? You mean coming up, built today, 00:26:23
operating, Yeah. 00:26:28
OK. Is there something particular that the city would like to see in a parking management plan for a structured parking or mayor? 00:26:34
If I could kind of list some of the things that the council discussed in the past. One thing they wanted was to make sure that 00:26:42
there was an inventory and that the management for each of the units had had it connected to the actual vehicles. What we found is 00:26:50
with with the apartment complexes, especially on Mill Rd. the ones that did that early on. 00:26:59
We that's when we started receiving a lot of complaints and the city went through a major effort of, of working with those 00:27:44
apartment complexes to get parking management plans in place. So definitely having like the leases connected to the vehicles. I 00:27:51
think the other one too was having like the inside the structure somewhat controlled where, where the residential is. So you're 00:27:58
not going to just just have, you know, there may be some mix between the retail that that having some. 00:28:06
Some separation so that you do preserve residential parking spaces for, for, for the actual unit so that it's not just one big 00:28:15
open shared, you know, concepts of whether there's a flash card or something like that that provides you entry. I think those were 00:28:21
the two ones. And then there was a request for some sort of security measure. But I, I remember these are the items that were 00:28:27
brought up in past work sessions when went through the, the development agreement. Those were kind of the three main ones. I don't 00:28:33
know. 00:28:39
Yeah. And I feel like there are other things that we talked about prior that we probably went back and forth on with the last 00:28:46
council, but we could get this together and each of our council today could go through and say what's important to them and we'll 00:28:52
send it to you. The other one, I apologize, it was 400 N providing priority retail parking. 00:28:59
On the street so customers could pull up in front of the the retail establishment so they wouldn't have to go inside of the 00:29:05
parking structure if they didn't need to, that there was some priority parking spaces so. 00:29:11
OK. So assigning specific stalls, having those labeled per unit tied to a license plate of a vehicle with a controlled arm or gate 00:29:19
or some way that it's secured and only permitted guests or permitted tenants could use those stalls, is that? 00:29:28
Or whatever measures, it'll be a pretty detailed management plan and any input that you guys could have or ideas that you have for 00:30:16
managing a structured parking garage, that would be probably the first one that would be built in this city that would be helpful. 00:30:23
That's great. I did a project in Salt Lake, downtown Salt Lake called the 702702 building. That's like part of their address and 00:30:32
they did exactly that. They had they had a card. I think you get get through the gate and then there were. 00:30:39
Assigned parking stalls and it was also mixed-use. So if you're in downtown Salt Lake you could maybe go have them show you 00:30:47
because it it worked right but and similar it was kind of similar in size too. 00:30:53
Yeah, OK. We'll look forward to your comments. 00:31:00
On that next slide. 00:31:05
This is. This has changed quite a bit since our original. 00:31:12
Approval the IT didn't appear to be appropriate. At one point we had reverse 45° stalls in front of the building on 400 N where 00:31:17
you would back into your stall. 00:31:22
That has actually, we've seen, we've been to some projects that have done that, that have done that. 00:31:30
I I don't believe 400 N would be an appropriate road to do that on based on what our consultants have come back to us with. Did 00:31:37
you have any other comments on that Morgan or is that? 00:31:42
But there there there was an interest in looking at that. And so I don't think the City Council was dead set on adverse angle, but 00:32:20
there was something that we wanted to have at least looked at from a safety standpoint. OK, So that's not a City Council issue 00:32:24
that. 00:32:28
With one of that four, OK, we've aligned the parking garage entrance with the South entrance on 400 N that will go into our our 00:32:32
Geneva retail, which consists of the hotel and McDonald's and AutoZone and O'reilly's and all of that to the South. So that's, 00:32:39
that's well aligned right now. 00:32:46
The potential that has been coming back to us is can we add more parking on the north side of 400 N? Possibly. This plan right 00:32:53
here is showing additional stalls, 19 more stalls on 400 N that would go in front of the medical office building to the West of 00:32:59
our project. 00:33:05
Kind of within the right of way area, some on private property, something that I would have to negotiate and deal with, but happy 00:33:13
to move forward with those discussions if this is something that's important with. 00:33:18
With the city or with the Council? 00:33:23
The next thing would be adding a potential bike lane on the 400 N is right now in front of our building. 400 N is not improved. 00:33:59
This is an opportunity that we have to work together to improve a right of way to improve what I think is a pretty important 00:34:05
roadway system through throughout the city. Since 800 N and Center Street are are going to be, you know, interchanges with with 00:34:12
I-15 forever, 400 N has the capability to move east and West underneath the freeway. Eventually once once that intersection on 00:34:18
Geneva Rd. is done, the rail is removed. 00:34:24
And connecting that over into Orem and talking about that seemed to just same discussion with them Council. Do you have any 00:35:02
comments on that or anything? 00:35:06
Not just they've been actually some really good feedback about bikeability over there. So I think it's great that you're looking 00:35:11
at that. 00:35:14
My mic was on. I'll have to speak directly. There have been some good commentary from the residents over there about bike ability, 00:35:18
so I appreciate you looking at it. 00:35:23
Yeah, I think the bike lane needs to stay. 00:35:28
Or the requirement for it? 00:35:32
OK. I don't know if there's a requirement currently today, but we're happy to incorporate it into our plans is what I think we 00:35:35
would like as we're looking to finalize or amend the development agreement with these final little details that we're kind of part 00:35:41
of our approval was that we needed to come back with some engineering reports and some studies. 00:35:47
We have met with the engineering. It does appear that we can fit a bike lane onto 400 N If that's what you'd like to see, I'm 00:35:54
happy to incorporate that. 00:35:58
Something else that's been asked of us is if we could add crosswalks on 400 N. 00:36:03
The. 00:36:09
Our engineers, he's been through it. He surveyed it, he's looked at it. Yes, it's possible. Is it something that we view as our 00:36:13
responsibility as as a private property being improved that's not even adjacent to where these crosswalks would go? 00:36:19
I don't know that there could be a legal requirement to us. Is there something that I would I would like to see for my 00:36:28
development? Yeah, I, I actually actually would really like to see a connection with Edgewater, some pedestrian connectivity to to 00:36:34
our site. And so I think adding that crosswalk and slowing some traffic down. 00:36:39
That they wanted to go to restaurants and bring their family, but that they felt that they had to drive just because there, there 00:37:17
there weren't safe crossings. And so there there was a desire from residents to to see that intersection. So Morgan, we talked 00:37:25
about visual changes and also pedestrian plasters or something like that. Is that what this would include or what all would be 00:37:32
enhanced on the site? Mostly just color differentiation so that they can see there's people walking across. 00:37:39
Yeah, this, this is anticipating and it's not a final design. This is our engineer is just idea right now of a different surface 00:37:46
material that would show the crosswalks, ADA ramps on all four corners of this intersection. 00:37:52
To accommodate and somehow pinching down the traffic a little bit, whether it's through paint or landscape adjacent. It didn't 00:37:59
think there was space for a landscape island in the middle of 400 N, but something that would catch driver's eyes to make them 00:38:04
slow down. 00:38:09
The question we would have is what would be the speed limit on this road long long term? 00:38:16
The scene This is a This is a collector Rd. isn't it? 00:38:21
Yes, yes. Can you hear me alright? Yes, it is. 00:38:31
OK. Yeah, I think we we're definitely about in my opinion connecting these two areas and I think a visual change is definitely 00:38:35
important and this is something I think that I will probably need to go back and. 00:38:43
Look at myself and probably talk to Hills and our engineers just to decide how we're going to move forward with collectors and and 00:38:53
then bring that back to the council so that they can have the best information. But it's I think it's appropriate to. 00:39:00
Plan for it, plan for something there so that we can have those conversations. 00:39:08
OK, Brady Morris at Enzyme Engineering is the one who surveyed and he has most of the data if you wanted to get more sketches from 00:39:13
him. 00:39:17
You can reach out to him on your own. We're happy to provide those as well. And Julie, just to just add really quick on the active 00:39:22
transportation plan that we approve one of the elements and it wasn't a requirement, but how it was stated in there. As we add 00:39:28
cross box that will put pedestrian indicators because I think there was some concern about just adding the painted lines. But if 00:39:35
you have the indicators, you're at least wanting people ahead of time because I think we have a couple others that were interested 00:39:41
in doing this year. 00:39:47
So that would be excellent. 00:40:24
OK. 00:40:27
I mean, the last thing would be Jamie will appreciate this is whether we're who's paying for these improvements. 00:40:29
Or required to pay for them. It's something that I do want to see the success of our project. I'm not saying that we wouldn't 00:40:38
participate in it. I do want to see the success of our project. I want to see it work out and I do think pedestrians into our 00:40:43
shopping center does benefit us probably more than 10 months. 00:40:48
Next slide. 00:40:56
Oh, is there any other comments? Oh last question I had on. 00:40:58
That's the last slide, OK. Any other question on 400 N or comments on 400 N? 00:41:01
I view 400 N as a major thoroughfare to get through and it's got to connect and it would easily take off a lot of stress off of 00:41:08
Center Street. So critical to like maximize that. But then #2 on your parking, and I know it already passed of like, are you going 00:41:16
to be asking less than the minimum that the city requires now? Yeah. So I, I can't remember the exact section within the 00:41:24
development agreement, but there's a requirement of us to go in the development agreement out to. 00:41:32
Engineering for our infrastructure, which is related to. 00:41:41
Water impact and sewer impact as well as parking and and come back with a third party report for that. The way that the current 00:41:44
code is written now, which I think is a blanket code across. 00:41:51
A zone that I don't know how much it should apply to this exact site to be honest with you, but as we're we're quite a bit over 00:41:59
parked in our current shopping center. If you don't include Megaplex, which technically isn't my issue or problem, I've been 00:42:04
trying to help solve it as much as I could. 00:42:09
Umm, I would see I I would think that a blanket approach to parking a. 00:42:15
A structured parking mixed-use facility using code that's intended for. 00:42:21
Surface park, asphalt garden style apartments. 00:42:28
We didn't think it was appropriate and so we thought working with an engineer and through the development agreement and then 00:42:33
coming back with the engineers recommendations that there could be a potential for the appropriate number being allocated. I'm not 00:42:39
saying whether that's less or more. It's currently showing significantly less than what the blanket code shows. 00:42:45
By over 202 hundred stalls, we're not going to be asking for that much of A reduction at all. What we would like to do is not have 00:42:52
a lot of unused stalls, but I think the details of the engineering report, I think we can get to you all between now and the time 00:42:57
we apply. 00:43:02
Any meetings that need to be had with Hales without me there? I'm happy to arrange or or you can reach out directly to Hales, but. 00:43:09
I think unused stalls, it shows a success. They're not a negative, it shows you planned. 00:43:17
I love seeing it. It's like people die, grandmother gets sick missing somebody comes home from a mission. 00:43:25
A plan for somebody get to work. Truck life happens. I like empty stalls sometimes. 00:43:33
I I I would agree for it. 00:43:41
There, I think there was, I think there's an appropriate number is what I'm saying. If you didn't see any, any vacant stalls at 00:43:44
all in front of Cafe Rio, you probably wouldn't go eat there right where you didn't see any vacant stalls at all at the bank, you 00:43:50
might go to the next branch. So yes, there has to be vacant stalls at times, but I think there's an appropriate number that. 00:43:56
People smarter than me usually come up with. 00:44:02
And, and I think it would be, it would be beneficial if council could meet with Hales Engineering, maybe one-on-one even. Yeah, 00:44:08
we'll facilitate those meetings. 00:44:13
Anything, any way that we can assist is we have quite a bit of property adjacent to the rents were. 00:44:51
So right now, money is being spent down on design and we're moving forward. And recently we were able to renegotiate some of the 00:44:56
closed intersections in the city. So we had to pull back and open up some additional intersections, but those are moving forward 00:45:03
right now. So we're really close to finalizing the next phase of development for removing the spurs, the spur line. U Dot's been 00:45:10
assisting us in that meeting. If you want, we can keep you informed as we move through that process. 00:45:17
Yeah. I think that would be important, especially for this project as well. OK, Thank you. Thanks. 00:45:25
All right, that brings us to our public comments. This is a time for anybody in the audience that wants to address the council on 00:45:30
things that are not currently on the agenda. If you have something come up to the podium, state your name, where you're from, and 00:45:35
we will hear your comments. 00:45:40
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard Resident First of all, I want to say what a wonderful job the city did working with citizens and 00:45:54
cleaning up the graffiti over the weekend. That was amazing how it happened so quickly and so seamlessly. So I think that's 00:46:02
wonderful. I've talked a few times before about the importance of transparency and building trust. 00:46:09
Between those on the council and those who live in Vineyard. 00:46:17
And I just wanted to talk a little bit about transparency and what does it mean to us? 00:46:21
And as I've thought about this, to me in government, transparency is the obligation to share information with citizens. 00:46:26
That is needed to make informed decisions and hold officials accountable for the conduct of the people's business. 00:46:37
So what you do is the business of all of us who pay taxes and who reside here and make this city possible. 00:46:45
Transparency implies openness, communication, and accountability. 00:46:55
And lack of transparency fosters an US versus them attitude, and that's not what we want. 00:47:00
So I have concerns. 00:47:08
One, I'm going to share one of many with you when transparency was needed but not afforded to the citizen and possibly even to 00:47:11
some of the council here in Vineyard. And perhaps we could look at this and improve based on what happened there. And this is 00:47:20
something that I always go back to because this was a big meeting where lots of things happened and this is the December 13th. 00:47:28
I'll wait. 00:47:38
This was the December 13th Council meeting last. 00:47:44
Last year in 2023 and we had on the agenda we had 9. 00:47:48
Consent items. 00:47:54
There the 8th one was 6.8 approval of economic strategy contract extensions. 00:47:57
OK, Now Please note on this, this particular item or any of the items that were consent items that day. 00:48:06
There was no names, there was no amount, so there were no dollar figures and we had no idea who these consent items were between 00:48:14
or with or for or any of them. So. 00:48:21
Marty, and I appreciate you doing this. She apologized for not knowing anything about this particular consent. I don't know. She 00:48:29
asked for an explanation. 00:48:34
And so because Morgan wasn't here at the time, Jamie offered to give an explanation. When I checked the minutes, the explanation 00:48:40
was not in the minutes. It just simply said that Jamie explained it. So I got to take all of my afternoon and go through the 00:48:49
recording so that I could hear how he explained it. So I'm going to read to you, he said. 00:48:58
And I'm going to quote it. 00:49:08
I can find it here in my notes. 00:49:10
The explanation was limited at best, and in answer to Macy's question, he stated there are agreements the city has been working on 00:49:18
with a number of economic development entities and this resolution is to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew and 00:49:25
continue those relationships with the word that he used. 00:49:33
No messing with membership. 00:49:42
I'm sorry, I'm going to continue. 00:49:44
I don't believe this explanation was completely accurate as I mentioned. 00:49:47
It was actually a resolution that allowed for our mayor. 00:49:55
To renew her membership with the World Trade Center Utah for two years. 00:49:59
Relationships and memberships are not the same thing. 00:50:05
So this is not a transparent answer I'm going to have. I'm not going to have you go for 15 seconds more and then we have to stop. 00:50:10
Well, I need to finish. 00:50:14
The way that this works is that you have provided amount of time. I stopped because you left and went over there and I wanted you 00:50:19
to hear what I had and then you had two additional minutes added to it. Resolution. As I said, it allowed for her to have those 00:50:25
two more. So I hope you can see why this is upsetting because there was no transparency in any of these consent items. There was 00:50:31
no dollar figure, there was no names, there was nothing there and it was just everything was approved. I think there was one that 00:50:37
was pulled. 00:50:43
OK, other consent items. Karen, it's time you have to end the comment now. OK, Well, I just want to if you have more transparency 00:50:49
in this community and if we are going if you are going to ask. 00:50:56
We would like you to be transparent with us. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comment. If you have additional things that 00:51:03
you want to say, we can say it after this. 00:51:07
Well, I would just like the steer resolution made that transparency will be in all agenda items. Thank you. Thank you so much, 00:51:12
Karen. 00:51:16
Any further comments? 00:51:23
Hi, Ryan Holdaway, Vineyard resident. 00:51:27
I actually came in today to thank the city for the participation in the memorial which was built to remember Sienna. 00:51:30
I understood that was on Orem property and I understood that they were building that, but I was really pleased to see Vineyard 00:51:41
City trucks. 00:51:47
And engagement obviously in the in the building and the Memorial Day. And I think it's really important because. 00:51:52
These are our children and as a as a driver, myself and I'll. 00:52:01
I'll tell everybody on put it on record. I was pulled over today because I I stopped for something in the crosswalk, but I didn't 00:52:07
wait until I left the crosswalk to drive forward and I was pulled over and given a warning. 00:52:12
And as somebody who looks at that bench every day driving home, I, I failed. And so I think that's really important and protecting 00:52:18
our children is. 00:52:25
It's it's just such a tragedy that she had to lose her life though. So that being said, I do want to mention how grateful I am for 00:52:33
the city and the council and youth manner for thinking about the future and protecting our way of life in Vineyard. 00:52:41
And. 00:52:50
As it relates to as the city is growing exponentially and, and I'm really glad to see agenda items to change how the council and 00:52:52
the mayor work together. And I just would like to publicly state that I would really encourage you guys to not think about the 00:52:59
status quo in the relationships that you have right now, but think about as we change our our form of government, what is what our 00:53:07
government is going to need in five to 10 years from now. So that's my comment and I appreciate this time. 00:53:14
Thank you. 00:53:24
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:53:32
I'd like to also commend our city staff, NASIM and Cash Yancy. 00:53:36
For taking care of that terrible graffiti and it's just, it's just sad and just grateful that it was taken care of immediately. 00:53:42
That was wonderful. Also, that bench is really cool looking. I rode my bike by it. I really liked it. I just have a couple 00:53:49
questions. What is the date for the next public hearing about the change of government? I know that we're having our first public 00:53:56
hearing tonight. I would like to know what the next date for that, for the next public hearing is. 00:54:03
And also. 00:54:11
Our ex development gentleman mentioned parking. I have a concern about the lakefront parking that we were going to talk about 00:54:13
what's going to happen. 00:54:18
From the month November through March when cars are supposed to be off the road for snow removal, if that parking is going to be 00:54:25
allowed for overnight parking on 3rd West, what will happen to those cars during that time period for snow removal? Thank you. 00:54:33
Thank you. 00:54:43
I am Mike Cox, Vineyard resident. 00:54:52
I wanted to just stand out and publicly say how much I love being a Vineyard over the 4th of July and I love being in Utah County 00:54:57
over the 4th of July. It means a lot to me what goes on. 00:55:04
I would like to say that I got involved with what's going on at Vineyard about three years ago. 00:55:14
When my wife and I both felt like. 00:55:24
So we didn't get honesty from our mayor about parking situation. We have to buy parking passes to park in front of our house and. 00:55:27
At first we were told that we could get to, but then when the final thing came down, we voted against it because it was only one 00:55:42
and we needed more than one. 00:55:46
Anyway I. 00:55:51
I have the amazing opportunity, um. 00:55:54
During March and April. 00:55:57
To go door to door and vineyard and umm. 00:56:01
There's one most profound experiences in my life. I knew that I lived among amazing people, but after. 00:56:06
Spending over a month knocking on doors and Vineyard, I was truly moved by house caring and how wonderful and how amazing the 00:56:15
people are here in Vineyard. But I want to say. 00:56:22
That and I can give you all the exact dates and names, the addresses. 00:56:31
Everything I talked to. 00:56:38
786 households in Vineyard. 00:56:40
OK. 00:56:45
And. 00:56:47
Of those 786, I told them that I joined a group that was against what the mayor was doing and against what the City Council had 00:56:49
been doing, and we helped to get two people on City Council. I told them that and. 00:56:56
Out of 786 doors, roofs, households, I found one person who was in favor of our mayor. 00:57:04
And that person happened to be on the Planning Commission. 00:57:14
So I started out talking to these people because I got involved because parking was a disaster. OK, so I want to tell everyone 00:57:17
here, everyone here, 785 to one. 00:57:24
That's how we feel about what's going on with the developers and with high density and with parking. 00:57:32
Comes in here and asks for less parking and you give it to them. 00:57:42
And there's problems in every single every single high density place and vineyard. Everyone has a problem. 00:57:47
So this is the tidal wave that's coming for all of you, 785 to one. Thank you very much. 00:57:55
If you are looking to make a comment, can you raise your hands or public comment? 00:58:12
All right, this is going to be the final comment. 00:58:17
I want to commend the mayor and the council on being diligent and wanting to. 00:58:22
David Larae, resident. 00:58:26
Anyway, welcome to mayor and the council on on being diligent about making sure we move forward the city business and so forth. 00:58:29
And sorry, I understand that that was the reason behind selling these limits on public comment. I would, however, also like to 2nd 00:58:36
Karen Cornetti's comments about transparency. It's a very important thing to have a trust between the citizenry and their 00:58:44
government and I just have to say that. 00:58:51
This limiting that you've been doing, I know it's a million times just to move things along, but the effect is to cause a lot of 00:58:59
great distrust amongst the citizenry. And I'd, I'd ask you if you would please to reconsider that and perhaps find another way to 00:59:04
move things along, but still allow people to be able to speak their mind and give you information they want to give. Thank you. 00:59:10
Thanks. 00:59:16
OK. We'll go ahead and move on to our next item, which is our consent items. Can I get a motion? 00:59:23
I move to approve the consent items as presented first by Amber. Can I get a second? 00:59:38
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 00:59:43
All right, hey, I have a question. Why is it #5 the report and we just skipped to seven one. You just do that in the meeting. I'm 00:59:48
moving those down. Yeah. Why don't we organize this before the meetings so people know the order? Sometimes I do. I just been 00:59:56
making a judgement call to get to some important public hearings tonight. All right, 9.1 discussing an action. This is the parking 01:00:04
permit program resolution 2024-17 and our senior planner cash hand people present. 01:00:11
Thank you, Mayor, I'll be presenting in his place. 01:00:23
Was unable to come tonight. So I'm Morgan Brand, the Community Development Director. And so tonight we're looking at a resolution 01:00:26
which would provide allowance for overnight parking on 300 W and on Loop Rd. which is that perpendicular Rd. that connects in at 01:00:32
that location. 01:00:38
It would limit it to one parking permit per household. 01:00:45
The resolution would provide 5 parking permits to the lakefront at Town Center HOA that they could provide to their residents for 01:00:51
temporary guest parking. 01:00:57
The permit would be provided to city residents on a first come, first serve basis. 01:01:04
It does have a requirement in there for the clubhouse parking which I believe is 29 stalls. 01:01:11
To be opened for their residents to park overnight. 01:01:18
And so we felt that was important that there was some on site parking. 01:01:24
It would provide. 01:01:29
It would limit 12 of the parking stalls. 01:01:32
On 300 W that would not be allowed for overnight parking so that we can preserve that. So on a Saturday morning, folks go into the 01:01:37
lake would still have that, have access to some of those stalls. 01:01:43
The so we will provide up to 70 or 87 street parking stalls for overnight parking. If the if the H way would like more than that, 01:01:52
then it would require the kind of the first remedy to provide those and to build more parking on site up to 25 stalls before we we 01:02:01
would provide more more on site parking. 01:02:09
I think that pretty much sums up that kind of kind of the main points of the resolution. Do you know if our permitting ordinance 01:02:20
touches a snow removal or if we just defer to our snow removal ordinance? Yeah, that we, so we, we have the the winter. 01:02:30
Parking restriction when it's punished, forms coming in. 01:02:41
Yeah, yeah, it'd have been applied to all and that's just for citywide parking in general. Everybody can park on the street and 01:02:45
then everybody has to move solutions. So it would be, it would require that from everyone. OK, great. Thank you for all of your 01:02:52
work on this and thanks for bringing it back to us. Are there questions from the council or any comments? No, thank you, Sarah. I 01:02:58
think we did have a, we did have a. 01:03:05
Apologize for putting that up. So we would like to have at least the program in place in August so we can start issuing permits. 01:03:46
But most likely we would wait till, I believe, September. We would advertise and let people know so that if there are folks that 01:03:53
have been parking out there, then they'd be able to make adjustments before getting towed or booted. Perfect. OK Marty, did you 01:03:59
have anything to add? I know you said it on a lot of these meetings. 01:04:06
I just want to read what Amber said. I feel like Sarah's done a really good job working with the HOA. I was able to sit in on a 01:04:14
meeting and I think from my understanding there was some good compromises made and I really appreciate the work you put into. 01:04:22
Excellent. OK, then I need a motion. I just want to make a comment. I think I think this is a very good step. 01:04:29
Important, but I think there's some rules or different things. 01:04:39
That I wish there were some adjustments to, but it like is a step in the right direction and what the current vote stands it, it's 01:04:44
my understanding that we're going to be doing a parking permit in the city and they're going to be paying us right. And what's the 01:04:48
total dollar amount? 01:04:53
Yeah, it's 60, but but it's, it's prorated. And so every month it goes, it goes down a little bit. And so that's yeah, so it's not 01:05:00
so cuz we've had residents that you're like, well, why do we have to pay the full amount? It's November, we're only getting the 01:05:06
benefit for two months and so. 01:05:12
Yeah, it it's 60 for the full year, and then it drops at least $5.00 a month a month. You know, I remember being here when that 01:05:20
development had hundreds of people protesting the parking problem. 01:05:27
Or the amount of empty parking stalls and just screaming and saying hey, there needs to be more. And I just think that's why I go 01:05:35
back to empty parking as people live differently than what a designer thought. And I hate that now the city is profiting, you 01:05:42
know, the $60.00. And I wish in the future if we had the votes to not have to charge that. But I do support the medium ground and 01:05:49
I think this is a good step in the right direction. I just wish that it would be more aggressive but. 01:05:57
It's the it's the movement that we got, but I would definitely campaign or push for more of. 01:06:05
Just open it up and let him park. But I know I don't. We don't have the votes for that. 01:06:13
In regards to your statement, it was not just the City Council that thought opening up is completely free was. 01:06:18
The best decision, so just to clarify, I wanted to understand your statement. Were you saying you want to do passes, that you want 01:06:27
the passes free or you passes it all in the future? I think the passes should have been done by the HOA and not the city or I 01:06:34
believe that the HOA should be able to control that themselves and not so just to clarify as well. 01:06:42
It is A to do that. It would be a public private partnership that you said you don't like in the past. So I'm just wondering. 01:06:52
If that affects your thought on that at all, no, it doesn't affect it. 01:06:58
It doesn't mean it's a public Rd. So it could take that, but it's, it's not a, it's a compromise that's positive and moves it in 01:07:02
the right direction. That was my understanding is that because it's a city road, then the city takes responsibility for the 01:07:10
upkeep. And so that's, that's why it felt like a little bit of a fair exchange for them. But I feel like they've been very fair on 01:07:18
their pricing and, and we've talked to about during the holiday season, just not patrolling at all, like giving, giving leeway. 01:07:26
Where we can give leeway, I think is good. And and it's opened up to to anyone who needs one. We have found that that there was 01:07:34
needed parking from the locks and from the preserve that also will be allowed to park there. And I don't know, I'd rather pay 01:07:42
$60.00 a year than a $300.00 towing bill. So the goal is we're part of the transition. Yeah, we're park. Yeah, right. It gets them 01:07:49
a lot closer to their home. So I feel like this is this is a good compromise and the HOA is happy with it and it'll, it'll. 01:07:57
Can I add one more thing? Sure. 01:08:05
Umm, I just think what you're suggesting is dangerous because umm, I read AI read a book about parking and it was really fun. But 01:08:07
in this book it actually talked about how the city of Chicago let private companies manage their parking and they were able to 01:08:15
charge whatever they wanted and it actually became a huge issue. So I do understand your desire. I think it's a righteous cause 01:08:22
trying to get the city out of parking restrictions and whatnot. 01:08:30
And it's great to have private. 01:08:37
I think public private partnerships sometimes are great, but I think that the decision that Sarah and the Council are coming to is 01:08:41
actually very healthy, good set of boundaries. And so I want to I guess again say how much I've appreciated Sarah work and I think 01:08:47
that we've come to a good compromise. 01:08:54
Yeah, I I would only note that there's a difference between a company and an HOA. An HOA serves its members just like a citizen. I 01:09:01
mean, it's not there to profit and make money. An HOA administrative company that administers the HOA is, but not the HOA. I think 01:09:07
a lot of people would disagree with you, though. Sometimes there's HOA that start to go up to. 01:09:13
Bringing this ordinance back that came back last year. 01:09:50
And then once we implement the program, I think the plan will be for us to do some enforcement for the first month or two as as 01:10:35
Sheriff's Office and then we'll turn it over to the children. So I also think it's important as we've gone through this process 01:10:41
for the last seven years, we've been going to different Hoas and saying, reassessing and saying what are the growth needs, 01:10:48
changing their green space, having them enforce their CCNR is going through their permitting process, making sure that they have 01:10:54
something so that they can make sure that. 01:11:00
With that, did we make a motion? Let me just add two more comments, which is. 01:11:38
We're going to just allow the mayor to make the decision and adjust when needed of like here I am or I'm not going to set up 01:14:24
policy. If it was conveyed to the city manager and he conveyed that to me, we could convey that to the token without a vote. I 01:14:29
like that that we can just. 01:14:34
All right, it looks like we are at the point of motion. I move to adopt resolution 20/24/17 Parking permit program for 300 W as 01:14:40
presented. 01:14:45
Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second, second, second by Sarah? Let's see. We'll go ahead and do this by roll call. 01:14:51
Sarah yes. 01:14:59
Marty Aye, aye, Amber, aye, yes. With the hope to get better. All right, let's go to 9.2. This is a public hearing proposal to 01:15:02
consider a change in government. This is the first of two public hearings to receive public comment on a proposal to change the 01:15:09
form of government from A5 to A6 member Council. No action will be taken on this. This is just a time for you to come and share 01:15:17
your opinions on it. So we're going to open the public hearing and hear your comments. 01:15:24
Can I have a motion to go into a public hearing? 01:15:32
So moved all right first by Amber. Can I get a second? 01:15:35
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 01:15:40
All right, we're now in a public hearing. 01:15:46
Please come to the microphone and state your name and where you're from and any comments that you would like to give us on this 01:15:51
form of government. 01:15:54
Hi, David Lane resident. 01:16:02
This is that examined the various forms of government available to us. It appears that this one is changed from A5 member council 01:16:06
to six member council. It's probably the the smallest possible change that we could have a that we could have come up with. It 01:16:13
really doesn't address many of the issues that we're having. And so it seems to me that I understand well back up, I understand 01:16:21
that our three attorneys is most in favor of this as opposed to a council mayor forum. 01:16:28
The issue here is that. 01:16:36
And so I think and also it also separates out powers and provides checks and balances aren't available in the other forms. And I 01:17:16
think that that would be as very valuable. It provides a clear delineation on on, on who does what as far as executive goes and 01:17:22
the legislative as well. 01:17:28
We have a great tradition of. 01:17:35
Of adversarial discussion and backyard. Our whole judicial system is built upon that principle. 01:17:40
We have a prosecutor, we have a defense attorney and they argue and. 01:17:46
We have a judge, this is a referee and we have a, you know, a committee of our peers that makes the final decision as a jury. But 01:17:52
we, but the point is, is we, we have a great tradition of, of systems that allow us to be able to express different points of view 01:17:59
and, and work together to come to a compromise. And sometimes those aren't, you know, those aren't friendly, overly friendly 01:18:06
appearing things. But in the end, they, they, they allow everything to be discussed. 01:18:13
Everything to be aired and it becomes a much better solution, so I would ask if I would ask the Council if they would please. 01:18:21
To reconsider that measure and to actually adopt A council, mayor form of government, I think it's much more efficient. It's much 01:18:28
more keeping our traditions in America. I think it's much more, it has many more pros and cons. And I think it'd be worth our 01:18:34
while. If we're going to take the time to make this change and spend the money to make it. We I think we should do it right. I 01:18:40
think that's the best way forward. Thank you. 01:18:46
Thank you. 01:18:53
Claudia Larae Resident I just have a question for the Council. What is the opposition? 01:19:11
To having a six member council. 01:19:19
You mean a city, county? This is not going to be a time for discourse, but we can hear your comment right now. And then we could 01:19:25
be prepared with questions for, I mean we could be prepared with answers for the the second public hearing. 01:19:31
I mean answers. I do have a question of clarification. Are we discussing this at all after our public hearing? Are you saying 01:19:40
we're not? We are not at all. 01:19:44
For another, OK, but we will be able to bring forth your, I mean anything that we can find to answer those questions for the 01:19:49
second publisher, well, just personally. 01:19:55
And this is not. 01:20:01
This is as a citizen to the city government. 01:20:03
I I have. 01:20:09
Given public comment. 01:20:14
That has been given with a majority of people that has been ignored in the final analysis. So why? And I think that is one thing 01:20:17
that has led to this distrust. And I'm I'm really trying to follow the rules here and say the right things and but it seems like 01:20:27
my my concerns fall on deaf ears. And so it seems like. 01:20:38
A useless form in the form that it's in, something has to change. So I would like to agree that we need a change of government. 01:20:49
Thanks. Thank you. 01:21:03
Sorry, I'm doing a junior resident. 01:21:10
I disagree with what David said. I think it makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to clear something up. It doesn't have anything to 01:21:16
do with anyone sitting on this council because this is something that, should we take the time and the money and the energy to 01:21:24
work on would hopefully remain through council after council, mayor after mayor. So this is not targeted at anyone. This is 01:21:32
actually just a better way to represent the people and to have a representative government like this country. 01:21:40
Has has been. 01:21:49
Had for the last 200 plus years. So I just I want to make that clear that it has nothing to do with anyone that sits in front of 01:21:51
us. It has to do with having the guardrails up for years to come. So thank you. Can you stay for a second? Karen raised her hand 01:21:58
in agreement with the council mayor form. I just wanted that to be clear so that a comment was understood. 01:22:04
I want to speak to the issue. The choice shouldn't be the smallest change. Will you state your name? I'm sorry, David Pierce. I 01:22:24
live in the Cascade neighborhood. 01:22:29
We all know each other, so it's hard. 01:22:35
When we make a change in the form of government, it shouldn't be just the smallest change, it should be the change for the most 01:22:40
effective form of government for the city. 01:22:46
And I want to speak to the six member City Council. 01:22:52
Contrary to belief, it will, and it does facilitate closer cooperation between elected officials to effectively conduct the city's 01:22:57
business. 01:23:02
It is recognized as a better form of municipal government. 01:23:09
This structure was chosen by multiple cities locally as the most effective structure for their city government, Cities, by the 01:23:15
way, that have been mentioned in earlier City Council meetings here because of their effectiveness and efficiency and city 01:23:21
involvement. 01:23:26
It does protect the separation of power and the spheres of responsibility for the various elected officials and six member City 01:23:37
Council does bring government closer to the people. 01:23:45
Just a very true and a very simple example of what the five member City Council. 01:23:54
And given a population of about 20,000. 01:24:01
That means each City Council member would represent 4000 people. 01:24:06
But a six person City Council? 01:24:11
Council members would represent populations 3300 each. 01:24:14
It does bring government closer to the people. 01:24:20
Changes in city government should be forward-looking and not rearward looking. 01:24:26
And I want to point out one other thing. 01:24:35
That a city is not a state or the federal government a city in our American political system. 01:24:39
Is a subordinate entity of a state government. As such, the state legislators, in recognition of that, have given cities an option 01:24:50
to choose their form of government. 01:24:57
Based. 01:25:04
On the principles first principles of American government. On representative government. 01:25:07
Thank you. 01:25:13
Thank you. 01:25:15
Elizabeth Holdaway resident. 01:25:26
I I live in my grandparents or Ryan's grandparents home and there's a lot of legacy around me. 01:26:01
Thank you. 01:26:41
Mike Cox entered resident. I just want to. 01:26:47
Say that I agree with Elizabeth and Karen and David and umm. 01:26:51
The council mayor with either five or seven. 01:26:55
Councilman is, is in my opinion, far better than the six whenever council thing I, you know, with six people on the council, you 01:26:59
could if if all six people were there, you could have a three, three tie and that's you know. 01:27:07
Spinning your wheels so I just. 01:27:15
I just think that the council mayor makes a lot more sense. 01:27:19
Do you want to clarify? 01:27:26
It's called 6 member council. You only have five members of the council. 01:27:29
Who who vote on but the mayor is not voting. The mayor only votes on certain appointments and and discrete issues. 01:27:34
No, it never would be the mayor's. The typo. 01:27:43
Continue Any other comments? 01:27:46
But also Jamie, anything that relies on her authority, right? 01:27:50
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you mean the mayors like. 01:27:56
All right, any other further comment? 01:28:36
All right. If not we will. The question I have is we're holding another public hearing. So I close this public hearing and then we 01:28:39
go into it or I continue it. You will close this public hearing and then the the next public hearing will be noticed. It's 01:28:45
separate. All right. I need a motion to go out of the public hearing. 01:28:51
So moved. Thank you first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:28:59
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 01:29:03
This brings us to our staff, Commission and committee reports. Do we have anything today? 01:29:09
No. OK, then we'll go to your council. Sarah, did you have anything? 01:29:18
Cash isn't here, but I wanted to say thanks to him for his his work with me. We walked, we walked through the. 01:29:24
The roads leading up to the front runner station and put. 01:29:32
Put Flyers with QR codes on so we could know who needed more parking. And so he was, he was really helpful and. 01:29:36
And I just really appreciate I've, I, I bring up a lot of concerns and I feel like staff has taken them seriously. And even the 01:29:43
fact that you put on about changing the HOA from flagship, I just talked about it a little bit and it was on the agenda. So I 01:29:51
appreciate you guys listening and considering the things that are the things that are brought to you. But anyway. 01:29:59
So there's that and the cleaning up of the graffiti too. I didn't even know that it happened, but I just, I think you guys are 01:30:08
amazing and I I wanna let you know. Thank you. One other thing. 01:30:14
As far as the budget? 01:30:21
We had talked Christie about maybe making some of those line items more specific and. 01:30:24
Working with Kim, she talked about how she does council packets once a month and we talked about that before and if you if you 01:30:32
could do that before we do the final budget, that would be great. 01:30:38
Would you like some clarity? 01:30:49
Or do you understand what? I can talk to you about it later? Yeah, that's great. Eric, did you have something here? 01:30:51
Yeah, I just wanted to weigh in on your first request for reports and just to let them know that the Council know that I will have 01:30:59
a report that will be included in the council package. So it'll be available for the general public, but I'll have that out 01:31:05
sometime later this week. We're just gathering last month's reports from our directors and there's a whole bunch of stuff. And so 01:31:11
it would probably be a little bit burdensome to read it through in in this meeting, but we'll make sure that it's available for 01:31:17
you all. 01:31:23
And the public by putting it in that package. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Amber. 01:31:29
The Community Garden is putting on a healthy cooking class this Thursday at 6:00 at Gannon Park, so stop by if you want to learn 01:31:35
about that and keep your eyes open for being your Cares events. They have expanded. They had an event for 7 to 8 year olds and it 01:31:42
was very well attended and successful, so keep your eye out for some of those events. 01:31:48
And thank you to Arch Commission for their fantastic job on Vineyard days. They did exceptionally well. We had great attendance, 01:31:56
great interact with people, and I really appreciate Element. 01:32:01
As well as that fantastic Independence Day celebration, the best fireworks show I've seen in Vineyard. 01:32:08
Marty. 01:32:16
Actually mine. You can go next, Jake. 01:32:17
I would like an understanding. I got a few calls from a few citizens about the grant that they worked for and was awarded and then 01:32:24
it got pulled and then they called and said I voted or the council voted not to award the grant this year, the 20 or 25,000. And I 01:32:33
was like, I wasn't even aware of I, I thought we So what happened with that grant? 01:32:41
Print specifically the tax, the tax they're going back through the process and you'll see it, it'll come to you. Right, But why 01:32:50
was it put out? Everyone put the process in and then stopped. I'd just like to the scope wasn't fully done and so they are putting 01:32:56
the scope back in. 01:33:02
But it went out on the street and everyone submitted and then we backed out of it. We didn't back out of it though it the process 01:33:08
is just continuing. We just recognized that some of the stuff from the statute wasn't put in. So we want to do it properly. So we 01:33:16
had people submit for it. They submitted their their responses. There was a committee that was held. And then after the responses 01:33:23
came back, those were presented. And then we decided, hey, the statute isn't good, so we're going to. 01:33:30
Undo that right? Not that the statue wasn't good, it was that it wasn't upheld. And so. 01:33:38
They'll continue their process and then you'll see it. So why was that decision made without? I mean, they called me and said the 01:33:44
council had made a decision and I. 01:33:48
The council hasn't made a decision. It hasn't come to the table yet. So how did how did it go to start the decision and go through 01:33:54
it and then like you said, now reevaluate and pull back if I don't know the because as we were looking at the agenda item, we 01:33:59
recognized that the scope wasn't met and so they needed to complete the process for the council to appropriately get a 01:34:05
recommendation Who makes that decision that. 01:34:10
That the scope was or was not met? And were other council members a part of that? Like who goes through that? So I didn't allow it 01:34:16
to come to the agenda because it's not complete yet. And I reviewed the scope of the Arts Commission and I looked at it and sent 01:34:21
it back to them. 01:34:25
There's no way that if I'd be happy to, I'd be happy to talk to you more about it. I just wanted to a point of order with Jamie. 01:36:09
If we set forth the guidelines for how a grant could be awarded and then we don't like it those guidelines, wouldn't we see the 01:36:16
guidelines as a council to be able to put those into code? Is that really like both? Both of those are an executive function. 01:36:24
There's a lot of people that put in for that grant that are frustrated that and I'm like I. 01:36:32
We're not even. 01:36:39
There is only one applicant on the grant that is coming back and talking about this. You approved the other items in the budget. 01:36:42
Yeah, I know, but it's not about not liking the process, it's that they didn't follow the process. 01:36:52
So I'm executing upon the process that the Council has already put in. 01:37:00
We can talk about this more often. Is there another one that you wanted to bring to council? Yeah. The other thing is just 01:37:05
process. And I just want to document this and I apologize for the last meeting on the budget. My grandmother passed away the day 01:37:11
prior and so I probably wasn't as fuzzy, but. 01:37:17
As things passed and the vote passed, I just want to go through my experience of the past six months on the budget and preparing 01:37:24
for it. 01:37:28
Because I, I don't, I didn't like anything of the process and I know I'm in the minority, but obviously in being put in in 01:37:33
December and getting up and running, wanting to meet and understanding with all of the council members and saying what are your 01:37:39
priorities or what are not your priorities? 01:37:46
You know, we we put off and we said we're going to do that during the off site. We already mentioned that the off site wasn't 01:37:54
successful and I felt like we lost an opportunity when. 01:37:59
You know, you gave the, you know, address of the city and then left that day where we couldn't go and say, OK, what are we going 01:38:05
to accomplish? And then we came back and we said, hey, let's sync for another hour. And I thought that one hour meeting where we 01:38:11
got together and said, hey, here are some priorities. Was was a good was a good first start. But then, you know, I held out to try 01:38:17
to get. 01:38:23
A quorum where we could do this in a public way. 01:38:30
Very early on in in March and April and May and it was always let's go in and meet with Christy and Eric one-on-one. And it was, 01:38:34
you know, I know that Christy and Eric put that put the line items from the various departments, but it's more of us as a council 01:38:42
having a great culture and character of coming together and speaking about what our priorities and and that just that just didn't 01:38:49
happen. And so I, I, I feel like I, you know, in in trying to pull it to. 01:38:57
Move this into a public forum and move that process so that I could develop trust with you guys because I really do. I want, I 01:39:04
want the council to know that I'm trying to develop trust. And one of the things I spoke with Jamie about on the phone today was 01:39:10
one of the things that we can do to develop trust is. 01:39:15
Maybe doing things in the public, maybe things being written down, maybe walking away, having more people there so that we know 01:39:21
that what we say is done. You know, I know I reached out to all of you saying, Hey, could we do this in a, in a public way and, 01:39:29
and have a quorum and, and those were denied and I was offered just go meet with Eric and Christy. And so finally, you know, 01:39:36
holding out saying we're not going to do this in a, in a, in a way in which I view is, is, is doing this in a better way. 01:39:44
We went in and met and Kim went about 24 hours before or sorry, 48 hours before. And you know, Kim and I had worked very hard line 01:39:52
item. There were a lot of things that like miscellaneous that were that we need to ask exactly what that is. And I really 01:39:59
appreciate Kim going in and saying, OK, what is that? And can that be written down and make make sure that that what what you're 01:40:06
telling me it is? It's just not. 01:40:14
Us in a quiet meeting, me, Eric and Christy and us. But it is actually in the budget, because I don't know if you know state law, 01:40:22
but it's not in the budget, then it doesn't exist. It's just a conversation. 01:40:27
And so one of the biggest things was, is this written down these light items and to come back the day before and see a high level 01:40:32
and many of those light items, they're just not there, which means that that if it's just a high level 75,000 and we broke it down 01:40:39
earlier with Eric and Christy and they said, well, we're thinking this, we're thinking this, we're thinking this, those are just 01:40:46
words and there's nothing accountable on those to hold them accountable to what they said in a quiet meeting. And I don't like 01:40:52
that. 01:40:59
We came back and we said the night before, 24 hours before, can we get this budget? And one of the other things that struggled 01:41:06
with was, and I know Christie's doing a fantastic job. This is not on Christy or the staff they are doing. 01:41:14
But we're so late in the game because we put this off for months. 01:41:22
But one of the things that came up with was you're working off an old budget when we asked, well, how many times has it changed? 01:41:26
Will it change daily? OK, well, we weren't notified of all of these changes, right? And so that was problematic. But coming in 24 01:41:33
hours before we get the budget and I believe we were 400,000 and it went up to 1.2. 01:41:41
And I called Kim and I go, wow, these numbers are dramatically different than what we did the day before. And also as a City 01:41:49
Council member, I emailed that out to as many citizens as I can. I say, guys, I got this 24 hours earlier. Can you look through 01:41:56
this? And I look at it and there's not the detailed of is this, you know, there's still these high level miscellaneous travel 01:42:04
meetings and there's a lot of things missing. And so we go through and vote and all I have is my vote, right? So. 01:42:12
And so. 01:42:51
That that stops our ability. And so I just want to say and apologize that I fought for that process. And even with 24 hours of the 01:42:54
people that didn't vote for me, I couldn't even get it out there to say, hey, advocate for or against. And we could have done this 01:43:01
in March. And I know you guys don't want to meet in that way or that culture, but I just want you to know that I'm not a mean 01:43:07
person. 01:43:13
In that and that was my vote and that was the reason for it. So that was my comment. OK. The next thing is I wanna discuss my 01:43:20
question about the city manager's compensation and total compensation. And in the meeting I asked specifically because then again, 01:43:28
we were working with various numbers. But I just want the record to know that one of the questions I asked was, is the city 01:43:35
manager's department or manager being compensated differently in previous years? Ezra. 01:43:43
Our city manager was being compensated with a total salary and benefits of 160,000. 01:43:51
He was also doing the RDA director compensation, correct? And he didn't have an assistant. And so his total compensation to do all 01:43:57
of his job from one year to the next was $160,000. In this current budget. And I might not have answered it the right way in last 01:44:06
meeting, but I want the record to show that the new city manager's compensation is not 160 with benefits. It's two O 6. 01:44:14
So there's 47 thousand more in just compensation. We now have to hire a separate RDA director to do that position. That's an 01:44:23
additional 50,000, that's $97,000 more. We also have an assistant will take third a part, that's the deputy clerk. That third of 01:44:31
their responsibilities will kicked over for an additional 26,000. So the total compensation is 283,000 as opposed to what it was a 01:44:39
year before 160,000. 01:44:46
And so there is a difference of $123,000 just in that one compensation. And I asked about that and it should have been more clear 01:44:55
in the record. And it's not to attack him or anything, but it's the right to know of what is different from one year to the next. 01:45:02
And so I just wanted to make that it's not an attack personally, but it's just making the citizens know. And the second thing is. 01:45:10
On transparency now that it is set. 01:45:19
And so I hope to have something back that I could. And I know maybe there aren't the votes for this because I already voted, but I 01:45:53
would like to share A to show the citizens that we've tried to do everything we can. 01:45:58
And your due diligence on that? 01:46:04
And then the last thing I have is um. 01:46:07
You know, I'm, I'm really trying to develop a better relationship with the mayor and Eric. 01:46:11
And I believe, like I said earlier with the UMM. 01:46:17
With the budget. 01:46:24
That if there is a conflict of opinions of what happened in a closed door meeting, the best way to overcome that is sunlight and 01:46:26
transparency and to bring people in that we trust. And maybe after months of meeting we can develop a trust where we can work 01:46:32
together. Because I believe the citizens want us to work together. And so I believe that we have a weekly meeting, me and you, 01:46:38
where we can meet me and you and go over the agenda. If I look at anything and I need it, then I can pick you up on that meeting 01:46:44
and ask some questions. 01:46:50
But I also have the ability of scheduling my own meetings to meet with department heads or with Eric as needed on parking or 01:46:57
anything like that. And I've requested that me and Sarah, whether it be or any of you, I'd love either of you guys to be. Hey, me 01:47:05
and a council member would like to meet with Eric. And currently there's been some confusion on if I can and cannot hold a meeting 01:47:14
with Eric and another City Council member because. 01:47:23
Right now it's it's under the decision that I cannot hold a meeting with me and Eric and another council member. 01:47:31
Because it might so happen to be that the mayor might want to attend the meeting, which I love, if the mayor would want to attend 01:47:38
that meeting that I'm calling. But then it would necessitate a public meeting, which would be awesome because you know me, I would 01:47:44
rather do it that way. But in the event that the mayor doesn't want to do that, I just want to make clear that I can meet with 01:47:49
Eric. 01:47:54
And another council member by statute so that I can look into whatever department or what ask any questions that we not I'm not I, 01:48:00
I just don't feel like the last three months of being denied. Jacob can't meet with you with another person. It has to be just me 01:48:05
and you. 01:48:10
So I just like that clarified tonight so that we can see if we can move forward. And I want Eric and the mayor to know that I'm 01:48:17
trying my best and I do. I do hold out because I like people to see what I do and I don't like to meet just by myself. 01:48:25
All right. Thank you. Do you have any other comments or are you done? 01:48:36
Your last, that was my conversation. That was my question. Alright. And to Jamie, I will go and then Marty can go and then we'll 01:48:39
close the meeting. All right, just to address Eric's compensation really quick, I wanted to talk about the fact that Ezra did have 01:48:48
an executive assistant that had a total pay of $102,000, a hundred and 2900 and $99196. Additionally, we had an RDA director who's 01:48:56
a consultant that was paid the exact same as our current consultant hourly. 01:49:04
So I think that we can share these numbers with you to help you better understand additionally. 01:49:13
And now it's my turn. But additionally, the RDA Esther did not do the finance director job nor did he do the RDA director job. 01:49:19
These were separate. And so understanding that I think is key and critical and no way are these things hidden. When we hire 01:49:26
people, we hire them in the public. Compensation of each position is is brought to the public. And so it's a very transparent 01:49:34
process I would say. 01:49:41
My response to the budget is that. 01:49:49
I'm really grateful to hear that you would like to meet with me because and that you want to bring in people and that you want to 01:49:53
bring in people to meet and talk about the budget. During the time that we went through this budget process, we met six times 01:50:01
publicly as a group to talk about things. And each time we have the ability to go through and and discuss our goals and our needs. 01:50:09
And we also pleaded with the council, including yourself, to make sure that you were coming to your your weekly budget meeting. 01:50:17
You were invited to attend to, to work with the council, to work with me, to sit down with the finance director, Eric. We offered 01:50:25
to meet with a full group and in the last council meeting I felt like I was very clear. We really needed you to be there and I was 01:50:32
so grateful to see you come and bring people with you. I think that we have a good process and if we all attend our meetings it 01:50:38
could be a great process. 01:50:44
I feel like let's see. 01:50:52
Hold on, please. At the beginning of the meeting, the meeting was set for an hour and you went past an hour. I had another meeting 01:50:55
I had to attend, and so I'm sorry that I couldn't stay for the whole thing, but it was set for an hour and I stayed the entire 01:51:01
hour. OK, So the other thing is the way that our budget works and our Financial Policy is that the council does vote on it and we 01:51:07
can read through the Financial Policy. It was described to the public. You had actually mentioned it about how these things are 01:51:13
itemized. 01:51:18
And the City Council was able to talk about that. I'm going to forego the rest of my announcements today and turn the time over to 01:51:56
Marty and then we will adjourn. 01:52:01
Are you gonna answer my question? 01:52:08
What I'm saying on the legislative side, go ahead answer this so we can get it. And I've and I've described it with Jamie over the 01:52:43
phone today. 01:52:47
Jake and I already met on this today, so he's aware of the contours of the law on this. 01:52:52
There are two items of statute that are that come to bear here. One is the Open and Public Meetings Act and that prohibits a 01:53:01
quorum from meeting without it being a public meeting. That would require 24 hours notice and. 01:53:08
And that the public be allowed to participate like this meeting. 01:53:17
Here today, if Jake wants to hold informal meetings with the city manager, he may do it. If he and the mayor are present at the 01:53:21
meeting, then you can't have a third council member present or it would violate the Open and Public Meetings Act. So I think 01:53:29
that's the question of if the mayor's president and council member holdaway as president, then that's the most council members you 01:53:36
could have present without moving it to a public meeting. 01:53:44
You can shuffle participation however you'd like, as long as it's two or fewer. 01:53:52
That are at the meeting. The other aspect of this that is important is that by statute, the mayor of a city, regardless of the 01:53:58
form of government. 01:54:03
Is the chief executive officer of the city to home all employees report. And so if the mayor wishes to be at a meeting with the 01:54:08
city manager, that is her right as the chief executive officer. 01:54:15
And, and I want the citizens to understand what that means is that if I call and say, hey, me and Sarah or me and Amber or me and 01:54:23
Marty want to go and meet about a particular problem, the mayor is able to block me from meeting the two of us with Eric to go 01:54:29
over. She holds the right to to do that. 01:54:35
My meetings that I'm trying to hold. 01:54:42
Not the mayors meetings. So I can I can answer this a little. Sure. And why and why can't answer to it. Yeah, but let me make. So 01:54:46
I'm going to turn the time over to her. Can you answer it briefly and then follow your report. I think it's a really hard awkward 01:54:54
conversation safe. I understand what your desire is and I can see why you want a little bit of an adjustment. I will say that this 01:55:02
is a part, a big part of the form of government change that I'm looking for with. 01:55:10
I can report that I've been working on the form of government. 01:55:18
Yes, I did want to clarify that Jamie said that every form of government is the same. On this particular. I will say that with 01:55:21
this execution council, you can have two council members and the mayor meeting together, which is a huge benefit for one of the 01:55:29
issues our council is having. Also in a council mayor forum, the mayor could withhold any of the staff from you meeting with any 01:55:37
of them. So this is my turn. So what I'm trying to say is I validate your frustration. I validate your concern. 01:55:45
We do have to. 01:55:54
Be within the law with the Open Public Meetings Act. 01:55:57
I won't go much further into the form of government change, but I do hope you understand that part of why I've put so much work 01:56:02
into this is because a lot of your concerns, even though I had my own concerns before you joined us here on the council, which 01:56:08
motivated my changes which I have been working on for the past few weeks. I've been working really hard, talking to different 01:56:14
cities, talking to different people throughout the city, getting information, and I look forward to the next time that I'm allowed 01:56:20
to publicly speak on this. 01:56:27
Because I have a lot of thoughts in response to the public comments, if any citizens want to contact me personally, I would love 01:56:33
to answer any questions or discuss with them. 01:56:38
I do see a need for chains and I do see the benefits of the different types that are available. 01:56:45
And I'm looking forward to our next public hearing on that. 01:56:52
I do have a couple things. 01:56:55
I've just in the past few weeks it's been not as many meetings as usual, but I did get to meet with the economic development 01:56:58
meeting for Huntsman and Flagborough and that was very, it was great to touch bases. Huntsman is really excited to come be a part 01:57:04
of our city and I believe they will be a huge benefit. 01:57:10
I want to thank the city staff and specifically Eric for his Aunt Anna more specifically. 01:57:18
But for the work that all the staff did in the July 1st event. 01:57:27
There there was just such wonderful feedback from the community on that event and I know that Eric and Anna did a lot to make that 01:57:32
happen. So thank you so much. Also, I want to thank Maria publicly. I had a citizen call and let me know that there was a 01:57:38
complaint that she had about. 01:57:44
Code enforcement and Maria was very commutative and got her results very quickly. 01:57:52
So I want to thank specifically Maria and thank Naseem on that same issue. 01:57:59
Also, I want to thank staff for the calendar invites. 01:58:05
Thank you. That's been a big desire of mine to be more informed on the council level so I can know when events are happening or 01:58:09
special meetings, so thank you for getting that to happen. I think that sums up my report. Thank you. This meeting's adjourned. 01:58:17
I think you're kind of the culture. 01:58:27
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All right. 00:00:04
Oh good, let's follow up after this meeting. 00:00:09
OK, Thank you all for being here tonight. Today is July 10th, 2024 and that's the year and the time is 601 and we're going to 00:00:13
start our Vineyard City Council meeting. Our our Councilwoman Sarah Cameron is going to lead us in a invocation and Pledge of 00:00:21
Allegiance. 00:00:28
My dear Father in heaven, we come before the at the beginning of this Council meeting. 00:00:40
To ask for your guidance and direction and the things that we do and the things that we decide and we pray that that we will have 00:00:45
a spirit of peace and. 00:00:50
Collaboration together. 00:00:56
We ask that we will be mindful to always strive to protect the freedoms that that are provided in our our country through your. 00:00:59
Through your divine protection, we love thee and say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:10
All right. Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:17
All right, that moves us right into our work session. We're going to start with a presentation on the Water's Edge Home 00:01:38
Association. We had some questions from some of our council and we kind of wanted to review how the Water's Edge Homeowners 00:01:45
Association works in relation to the council, and I'm going to let our legal counsel lead out on that. 00:01:52
Jamie, did you want to give us an introduction and then our council can ask any questions they might have? Sure. Thank you, Mayor. 00:01:58
This will be a very general reflection on what HOA's are relative to what city governments are and where how they might overlap. 00:02:07
There may be details about the specific situation in Water's Edge that'll require some additional look or some additional 00:02:14
conversation. But what I understand generally is that some members of the community have approached the city and said, city, can 00:02:21
you take over the HOA? 00:02:28
And the short answer to that is no, cities can't on their own take over HOA's. HOA's are created by private property covenants. 00:02:36
Those covenants are created pursuant to state legislation, but they are private property rights. And when a developer establishes 00:02:43
an HOA or a community establishes an HOA, they do it with the consent of all the land owners within that community, often with HO 00:02:51
as. 00:02:58
Created by a developer. They have a period of time where the developer will control the HOA and then once a certain threshold of 00:03:05
units are sold, it's often between 50 and 75% of units. 00:03:12
The control of the HOA will shift from the developer controlling it to the residents in the community electing their own, or I 00:03:20
shouldn't say residents, the home owners within the community electing their own representatives to the HOA board or the 00:03:25
committee. 00:03:30
Depending on what it's called in the in the different Hoas. So it wouldn't be appropriate for the city to assert itself and assume 00:03:36
control of an HOA. To do so would be to to take away the private property rights that those homeowners enjoy. There are some 00:03:44
things HO as do that look and feel a lot like government. They, they can make assessments, they can enforce their rules and their 00:03:52
requirements within the purview of their governing documents and what they state. 00:04:00
There also is property that Hoas own in common, which means all of the residents of the HOA own those properties together, manage 00:04:08
those properties together. They can hire somebody to do the management, the maintenance and the work on it, but they own it in 00:04:16
common is the legal term. And often cities are asked by Hoas that haven't maintained their common areas appropriately to take on 00:04:24
the maintenance because. 00:04:31
There's no other vehicle or tool to do it, or they simply wish for things like private roads, private parks to no longer be 00:04:40
private roads and private parks, but to be public roads and public parks that are owned and controlled by the city. I'm not aware 00:04:47
of the city making any attempt to try to insert itself into the situation that any particular HOA at the city, but I I know there 00:04:55
have been from time to time requests from residents. 00:05:02
Asking why, why isn't the city doing this? And really the answer is it's because it's common property controlled by the HOA and 00:05:10
it's their responsibility and not the cities. So that's kind of a general rough overview of how property rights work with an HOA 00:05:18
relative to the city. And I'm happy if there are more specific questions to answer those to the best of my ability. We may get to 00:05:26
a point where the answer will have to be, we'd have to pull the private covenants, see what they say. 00:05:34
And then we can determine what the right answer is. But. 00:05:42
With that, excellent. Thank you. Are there any questions by the City Council? 00:05:46
Yeah, I have one because there have been a few of the citizens that have that have asked about. 00:05:52
The ability to have their own, it's Hoas are kind of scattered throughout the city, right. So you have lakefront that has their 00:05:59
own. And so some of the neighborhoods were wondering what it would take to be able to pull out of the main one and establish their 00:06:07
own. So they have more autonomy and decisions in there. Yeah, great question. They would so. 00:06:14
A private attorney could advise them on that. If there were overlap between city issues and their issues, I would not be able to 00:06:23
advise them because I'd be conflicted out, but I could put them in touch with somebody that could help them on that. Where where 00:06:31
you would want to look if you have that kind of question is to pull your, it'll be called your covenants conditions. 00:06:38
And restrictions or CNR, sometimes it will be called the declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions. And so they'll 00:06:46
call it the declaration for short. But if you have, they used to call them master and servant Hoas, they've gone away from that 00:06:52
because that language is loaded. 00:06:58
A little bit. And so they'll call it a controlling HOA and then subordinate HOA's where you have that situation, the control you'd 00:07:05
you'd have to 1st pull the CCNR for the controlling HOA and then it would have in it provisions for how many votes would be 00:07:13
required to modify the covenants. And if they were to able to assemble enough votes to meet that threshold, then they could modify 00:07:21
the covenants, record those changes. 00:07:28
And either do away with the controlling HOA and, and revert to where they have, you know, the sub HOA, then become the only HOA or 00:07:37
modify it. There will be a lot of moving parts when they do that just because of how they all interrelate and work together. And 00:07:44
they'll have bank accounts and finances and things like that to work through. But you can do it. OK, OK, thank you. Any other 00:07:51
questions? 00:07:58
I think this is a classic example of like if I think if this were on the agenda, the topic and we advertised this like a week 00:08:08
longer, I think we would get more citizen ideas or input on this. But with it 24 hours I don't have any questions is a good 00:08:15
example of like could we, we and we talked about that. 00:08:22
This is a work session, correct? 00:08:31
So we're not voting on anything. 00:08:33
It's like I'm just saying I can't. I've been talking to quite a few of them over the last few months. And so this was kind of my, 00:09:08
yeah, kind of something I've been working on. So I have been talking about them. I didn't realize we were going to talk about it. 00:09:14
Right. I'm just saying like as a rule, we keep talking about information and we can take it back to the timing of, hey, this is a 00:09:22
week out and Jake, I agree with you. So I would like to still see that on the agenda. I don't remember when it's planned and 00:09:28
sooner the better. I think what we're missing and I think what I hopefully can clarify is this. 00:09:35
Where I can't, if it conflicts with my duties to the city, I can refer them to a capable lawyer who can give them an initial 00:10:57
consultancy direction. Excellent, thank you so much. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to 3.2 X Development parking proposal 00:11:04
and Eric Turner with X Development Will. 00:11:11
Introduce this topic to the Council. Come on up. 00:11:19
Eric Downer, Next Development. 00:11:26
Eric Towner X Development. 00:11:31
Is there a way to provide another microphone so that the recording touches it? 00:11:37
That'd be fine. 00:11:43
Can we use the other staff on the longer staff? Yeah. 00:11:48
But not I think it's. 00:11:52
Let's see how that's working. Eric Towner with X Development. Are you catching that, Pam? Perfect. Let's go. OK. Yeah, we are here 00:12:03
to have a discussion, an open discussion in a work session setting. This is not an application for anything. This is to help us 00:12:10
prepare for an application more than anything else. 00:12:17
To get some feedback before we spend more time, more energy, more effort and especially more money into design and development 00:12:25
looking. And I think our development agreement actually requires us to come back and have these discussions generally about a, a 00:12:34
usually a hot button topic within the city is, is parking. So we do have the yard mixed-use which is within the RMU zone. 00:12:43
We've developed almost 40 acres there of commercial property. The remaining 4 acres is has been previously approved for a 00:12:53
mixed-use building. So why we're here today is just to have these discussions so that we can prepare better for an application 00:13:01
which would be what we understood to finalize the the development agreement or to amend the development agreement that we were. We 00:13:08
were required to complete some studies before we could move forward with the project. 00:13:16
So. 00:13:23
December 8, 2021 City Council approved of the mixed-use building. Approximately like 340 units were approved at that time. 00:13:26
Or 350 units or something. We're quite a bit below that with what we've been able to obtain with our architect and how it will fit 00:13:33
with the height requirements and everything that we have in there. We'll get into that in just a second. Wanted to make sure that 00:13:41
you are aware of some of the findings that we have. We have hired third party engineers and so we'll discuss that today. Want to 00:13:49
make sure that our parking proposals that are going to going to be coming forth to a City Council meeting as a. 00:13:56
An amendment to the development agreement still align with the goals of the city and and the recommendations of the third party 00:14:05
engineers and the need that we have to actually develop the building. I wanna confirm that the city's goals are still the same 00:14:10
today. It's been I think almost two years since we had this approval on this property, about a year and a half and we've spent a 00:14:16
significant amount of time and resources and energy into creating what I I think is going to be a potentially a really good 00:14:22
project. 00:14:28
Yeah, discuss the future application that we'll make for an amendment to the development agreement. And then also some things 00:14:35
maybe have changed or have not changed with 400 N and discussed exactly what the goals that the city has for 400 N It would help 00:14:41
us better prepare that that application when we do come with that. 00:14:46
OK, so here's what we've heard in previous meetings tracking the city for the last year and a half since our, our, our approval. 00:14:54
You know, we, we believe that it's an appropriate place for for the mixed-use project. It it seemed like that was the case two 00:15:01
years ago when it was approved that it's an appropriate place for a, a next use project. That third party engineering studies 00:15:08
would be required of us is in the current development agreement as we understand it to determine actual infrastructure. 00:15:16
For impacts, water use, sewer use and parking need and a parking requirement. We've completed some of the third party engineering 00:15:24
studies to this point, particularly with traffic. As we understand this will add traffic to 400 N, This will add traffic within 00:15:31
our shopping center and there will be a parking need. Also. The engineering studies were done based off of our plans for a 00:15:39
controlled parking garage, parking management plans, I think in the development agreement. 00:15:46
Required. So we just wanted to see before we finalize those plans, if there's any input from City Council for what those parking 00:15:53
management plans would look like. 00:15:57
We believe and we've heard commercial development is a priority for City Council. This is a mixed-use building that contemplates 00:16:04
the. 00:16:07
In our eyes, a substantial amount of square footage of the main level area to be used for retail purposes and commercial purposes. 00:16:11
Just making sure the quality of life for all Vineyard cities is Vineyard Residences is still critical for the city council's 00:16:20
mission. Obviously, that's probably remaining true need a city with a a variety of incomes and and, and all citizens need to be 00:16:27
accommodated for that. We believe this this housing project will will significantly enhance. 00:16:34
The ability for residents to come here and stay here. This will be a fun place for people to live. Pedestrian bicycle access is a 00:16:42
priority for City Council. We've heard that several times in the past. Want to make sure that's still a goal or something we 00:16:48
should be for sure incorporating into this project or if it's changed. City views on 400 N as an important east West connection. 00:16:55
If the city has goals of connecting that to the residential side of Vineyard West of the tracks, eventually obviously through into 00:17:01
Orem. 00:17:07
Through Geneva Rd. 00:17:14
Work, play, eat, recreate, all without having to get out of their car. Man, the zoning code is tough to actually list that out. 00:17:51
You'd probably be 1000 pages if you were trying to actually define exactly what the requirements would be to accomplish that. And 00:18:00
and things change a little bit over time as well. So what we believe is that. 00:18:08
The appropriate process that that we're hoping to take and that we thought through the development agreement was agreed upon is 00:18:16
that we would rely on 3rd party engineers and outside studies and have an active feedback through the process of of how the design 00:18:20
of the mixed-use building would go. 00:18:25
Within a shopping center. 00:18:29
This is the site we're talking about. 00:18:32
Thank everybody familiar with it. 00:18:35
Like I said, this is the remaining site that we have. We don't have any more lands within the yard shopping center. We've got a 00:18:37
couple of pads available that we're hoping to start construction soon on the North End. That's pretty much it. Mountain America 00:18:44
Credit Union is scheduled to open pretty soon. And I think that building looks really good, by the way. OK, next. And Eric, just 00:18:52
don't worry at the council in case they're not seeing full facility, but this is Mill Road, 400 N here and then obviously Geneva. 00:18:59
Yes, and currently 400 N is closed. It's under construction or improvements for Central Utah water and some other infrastructure 00:19:07
items. 00:19:11
This was one of our previous concept plans that we're working with through the development agreement process. You know, very 00:19:15
simple, just trying to do a test fit to see, you know, what would be the appropriate amount of units potentially to bring in here. 00:19:22
At that time we were thinking around 340 units, 350 units somewhere in that area. As we spent significantly more resources and 00:19:28
done more studies and looked at market need and whatnot, it's changed a little bit. If you can go to the next. 00:19:35
Site plan. 00:19:43
Updated site plan brings it down to about 302 units, so less units actually for this site. A little bit different of a mix between 00:19:45
two-bedroom, one bedroom and studio, but like I said, we relied pretty heavily on outside. 00:19:53
Consultants to to direct us as to how to design this, but this is this is getting pretty close to what we'd like to. It's not 00:20:03
finalized and we'll hopefully have a more final version once we apply for a finalization of the development agreement through that 00:20:07
amendment. 00:20:12
Still maintaining the commercial square footage on that main level of about 14,000 square feet. 00:20:19
Vineyards parking requirements for 302 units currently would be 628. 00:20:27
Total stalls with the commercial involved as well. 00:20:33
Our reports came back from Hales Engineering. 00:20:37
If you go to the next slide. 00:20:42
Hills Engineering, um. 00:20:47
They look at the yard overall currently saying, and I don't know if I need to go back into history. I know City Council has 00:20:49
changed quite a bit since we've started developing, but the megaplex was developed by another developer. We acquired all the 00:20:54
surrounding property around the megaplex. 00:20:59
Obviously significant severely under parked the megaplex was we've tried really hard to solve some of their problems or fix some 00:21:05
of their problems, but our our current and and even gone to the extent of helping. 00:21:12
The Edgewater The HOA Edgewater in accommodating them with some of our land to create a parking, a parking field for them. 00:21:19
As doing so, I think we've been extremely conservative for our parking and and I know that's been a requirement of City Council 00:21:29
that we push parking and push parking and push parking. What what was resulted is we are a little bit over parked in the yard 00:21:36
currently right now and and Hails Engineering is has updated us to that and we can have them talk to it. Hails Engineering's ITE 00:21:44
recommendations for this next use building would be 422 stalls, roughly 200 stalls less than the current city code would require. 00:21:51
I'm not proposing that we go down that low. I'm just that's that's where their third party reports came in a comparable property. 00:22:01
Two hours. 00:22:05
Is that improv or can you say that again? It's too low, The code is too low. Like the code would require like 628 stalls for 302 00:22:12
units. 00:22:17
Engineering standards would recommend 422. 00:22:23
Knowing that this is a parking structure, a controlled parking structure, is how they study it, but we're not proposing that we go 00:22:27
down to 422. By the way, I'm just this is the result of the development agreement requiring me to present a report. 00:22:34
When we come in for our final application, comparable property would require $348 obvious I think too low as well. We developed 00:22:42
two actual need is, is what our hope is. We don't want to have fast parking fields that are empty. We don't want to have tenants 00:22:50
who don't have the ability to park either. I think there's an appropriate way to get to the the accurate number, but that that is 00:22:58
a result of the the Hills engineering study and Hales is here right now if you guys want to ask them any questions. 00:23:06
They're going to a lot more detail when we actually do this, but you guys have a need to ask any questions of Hales. 00:23:14
Today. 00:23:21
Does anybody want to ask any questions? 00:23:23
Not right now what it looks like. 00:23:26
What we're likely this is not final at all. This is what our architect has come up with at this point, likely to create about 503 00:23:31
new stalls. 00:23:37
That would be above and beyond what our partner in Austin, TX, the multi family and mixed-use developer that we're partnering with 00:23:45
on this building, above and beyond what they would request us to build. But this is something that I think we would push to have 00:23:52
them build, understanding that this community is a little sensitive to parking requirements, Cross parking. Currently right now we 00:23:58
have 58 unused stalls at the yard on the South end. 00:24:04
And we believe the type of commercial use that will be coming into this building. 00:24:12
Eyebrow waxing insurance agents, executive tweets for people who want to work from home or Zoom meetings. Those are those are the 00:24:19
types that come in too. It's not going to be like a cafe, real restaurant or something like that at the base level of an apartment 00:24:25
building. These are smaller little retailer or private training suites type type retail uses. And if you're interested, we can 00:24:31
bring in at the next meeting. 00:24:37
A lot of examples what other mixed-use buildings have for that tenant mix. 00:24:44
So that's something that does anybody have any questions about this number or any comments to this number? Did you attach health 00:24:50
parking study on this or is that something that we can meet with them at a later point and talk about? Yeah, I think is that 00:24:55
something that. 00:25:00
You have it? Yeah, it's up right now. 00:25:06
OK. 00:25:09
This is their, their, their memo. So I mean they may have more data that they put put together their summary memo and I'm sure 00:25:13
that they can speak to that they're here. 00:25:18
Yeah. And I think Hales is open for, I mean, Joseph is here right now. 00:25:24
I think they'd be open for any type of discussion or meeting without us present. If you guys need that, that's great. Just the 00:25:30
idea that we have it on file so we can go review and then set up those meetings, I think is very helpful. Thank you. 00:25:36
OK. 00:25:48
So that that would be something that we're looking to discuss in in much more detail at a City Council meeting, in more of a back 00:25:49
and forth with with public comment. 00:25:54
And something that maybe prior to that we can get the full engineering study to you all so that you're much more prepared and much 00:26:01
more educated prior to that City Council meeting structured parking. We have not finished our parking management plan. Do you, is 00:26:06
there any? 00:26:11
The previous City Council had had some ideas for a parking management plan for a structured garage parking. I don't think there is 00:26:18
one in the city today. Are there any buildings today with structured parking in Vineyard? You mean coming up, built today, 00:26:23
operating, Yeah. 00:26:28
OK. Is there something particular that the city would like to see in a parking management plan for a structured parking or mayor? 00:26:34
If I could kind of list some of the things that the council discussed in the past. One thing they wanted was to make sure that 00:26:42
there was an inventory and that the management for each of the units had had it connected to the actual vehicles. What we found is 00:26:50
with with the apartment complexes, especially on Mill Rd. the ones that did that early on. 00:26:59
We that's when we started receiving a lot of complaints and the city went through a major effort of, of working with those 00:27:44
apartment complexes to get parking management plans in place. So definitely having like the leases connected to the vehicles. I 00:27:51
think the other one too was having like the inside the structure somewhat controlled where, where the residential is. So you're 00:27:58
not going to just just have, you know, there may be some mix between the retail that that having some. 00:28:06
Some separation so that you do preserve residential parking spaces for, for, for the actual unit so that it's not just one big 00:28:15
open shared, you know, concepts of whether there's a flash card or something like that that provides you entry. I think those were 00:28:21
the two ones. And then there was a request for some sort of security measure. But I, I remember these are the items that were 00:28:27
brought up in past work sessions when went through the, the development agreement. Those were kind of the three main ones. I don't 00:28:33
know. 00:28:39
Yeah. And I feel like there are other things that we talked about prior that we probably went back and forth on with the last 00:28:46
council, but we could get this together and each of our council today could go through and say what's important to them and we'll 00:28:52
send it to you. The other one, I apologize, it was 400 N providing priority retail parking. 00:28:59
On the street so customers could pull up in front of the the retail establishment so they wouldn't have to go inside of the 00:29:05
parking structure if they didn't need to, that there was some priority parking spaces so. 00:29:11
OK. So assigning specific stalls, having those labeled per unit tied to a license plate of a vehicle with a controlled arm or gate 00:29:19
or some way that it's secured and only permitted guests or permitted tenants could use those stalls, is that? 00:29:28
Or whatever measures, it'll be a pretty detailed management plan and any input that you guys could have or ideas that you have for 00:30:16
managing a structured parking garage, that would be probably the first one that would be built in this city that would be helpful. 00:30:23
That's great. I did a project in Salt Lake, downtown Salt Lake called the 702702 building. That's like part of their address and 00:30:32
they did exactly that. They had they had a card. I think you get get through the gate and then there were. 00:30:39
Assigned parking stalls and it was also mixed-use. So if you're in downtown Salt Lake you could maybe go have them show you 00:30:47
because it it worked right but and similar it was kind of similar in size too. 00:30:53
Yeah, OK. We'll look forward to your comments. 00:31:00
On that next slide. 00:31:05
This is. This has changed quite a bit since our original. 00:31:12
Approval the IT didn't appear to be appropriate. At one point we had reverse 45° stalls in front of the building on 400 N where 00:31:17
you would back into your stall. 00:31:22
That has actually, we've seen, we've been to some projects that have done that, that have done that. 00:31:30
I I don't believe 400 N would be an appropriate road to do that on based on what our consultants have come back to us with. Did 00:31:37
you have any other comments on that Morgan or is that? 00:31:42
But there there there was an interest in looking at that. And so I don't think the City Council was dead set on adverse angle, but 00:32:20
there was something that we wanted to have at least looked at from a safety standpoint. OK, So that's not a City Council issue 00:32:24
that. 00:32:28
With one of that four, OK, we've aligned the parking garage entrance with the South entrance on 400 N that will go into our our 00:32:32
Geneva retail, which consists of the hotel and McDonald's and AutoZone and O'reilly's and all of that to the South. So that's, 00:32:39
that's well aligned right now. 00:32:46
The potential that has been coming back to us is can we add more parking on the north side of 400 N? Possibly. This plan right 00:32:53
here is showing additional stalls, 19 more stalls on 400 N that would go in front of the medical office building to the West of 00:32:59
our project. 00:33:05
Kind of within the right of way area, some on private property, something that I would have to negotiate and deal with, but happy 00:33:13
to move forward with those discussions if this is something that's important with. 00:33:18
With the city or with the Council? 00:33:23
The next thing would be adding a potential bike lane on the 400 N is right now in front of our building. 400 N is not improved. 00:33:59
This is an opportunity that we have to work together to improve a right of way to improve what I think is a pretty important 00:34:05
roadway system through throughout the city. Since 800 N and Center Street are are going to be, you know, interchanges with with 00:34:12
I-15 forever, 400 N has the capability to move east and West underneath the freeway. Eventually once once that intersection on 00:34:18
Geneva Rd. is done, the rail is removed. 00:34:24
And connecting that over into Orem and talking about that seemed to just same discussion with them Council. Do you have any 00:35:02
comments on that or anything? 00:35:06
Not just they've been actually some really good feedback about bikeability over there. So I think it's great that you're looking 00:35:11
at that. 00:35:14
My mic was on. I'll have to speak directly. There have been some good commentary from the residents over there about bike ability, 00:35:18
so I appreciate you looking at it. 00:35:23
Yeah, I think the bike lane needs to stay. 00:35:28
Or the requirement for it? 00:35:32
OK. I don't know if there's a requirement currently today, but we're happy to incorporate it into our plans is what I think we 00:35:35
would like as we're looking to finalize or amend the development agreement with these final little details that we're kind of part 00:35:41
of our approval was that we needed to come back with some engineering reports and some studies. 00:35:47
We have met with the engineering. It does appear that we can fit a bike lane onto 400 N If that's what you'd like to see, I'm 00:35:54
happy to incorporate that. 00:35:58
Something else that's been asked of us is if we could add crosswalks on 400 N. 00:36:03
The. 00:36:09
Our engineers, he's been through it. He surveyed it, he's looked at it. Yes, it's possible. Is it something that we view as our 00:36:13
responsibility as as a private property being improved that's not even adjacent to where these crosswalks would go? 00:36:19
I don't know that there could be a legal requirement to us. Is there something that I would I would like to see for my 00:36:28
development? Yeah, I, I actually actually would really like to see a connection with Edgewater, some pedestrian connectivity to to 00:36:34
our site. And so I think adding that crosswalk and slowing some traffic down. 00:36:39
That they wanted to go to restaurants and bring their family, but that they felt that they had to drive just because there, there 00:37:17
there weren't safe crossings. And so there there was a desire from residents to to see that intersection. So Morgan, we talked 00:37:25
about visual changes and also pedestrian plasters or something like that. Is that what this would include or what all would be 00:37:32
enhanced on the site? Mostly just color differentiation so that they can see there's people walking across. 00:37:39
Yeah, this, this is anticipating and it's not a final design. This is our engineer is just idea right now of a different surface 00:37:46
material that would show the crosswalks, ADA ramps on all four corners of this intersection. 00:37:52
To accommodate and somehow pinching down the traffic a little bit, whether it's through paint or landscape adjacent. It didn't 00:37:59
think there was space for a landscape island in the middle of 400 N, but something that would catch driver's eyes to make them 00:38:04
slow down. 00:38:09
The question we would have is what would be the speed limit on this road long long term? 00:38:16
The scene This is a This is a collector Rd. isn't it? 00:38:21
Yes, yes. Can you hear me alright? Yes, it is. 00:38:31
OK. Yeah, I think we we're definitely about in my opinion connecting these two areas and I think a visual change is definitely 00:38:35
important and this is something I think that I will probably need to go back and. 00:38:43
Look at myself and probably talk to Hills and our engineers just to decide how we're going to move forward with collectors and and 00:38:53
then bring that back to the council so that they can have the best information. But it's I think it's appropriate to. 00:39:00
Plan for it, plan for something there so that we can have those conversations. 00:39:08
OK, Brady Morris at Enzyme Engineering is the one who surveyed and he has most of the data if you wanted to get more sketches from 00:39:13
him. 00:39:17
You can reach out to him on your own. We're happy to provide those as well. And Julie, just to just add really quick on the active 00:39:22
transportation plan that we approve one of the elements and it wasn't a requirement, but how it was stated in there. As we add 00:39:28
cross box that will put pedestrian indicators because I think there was some concern about just adding the painted lines. But if 00:39:35
you have the indicators, you're at least wanting people ahead of time because I think we have a couple others that were interested 00:39:41
in doing this year. 00:39:47
So that would be excellent. 00:40:24
OK. 00:40:27
I mean, the last thing would be Jamie will appreciate this is whether we're who's paying for these improvements. 00:40:29
Or required to pay for them. It's something that I do want to see the success of our project. I'm not saying that we wouldn't 00:40:38
participate in it. I do want to see the success of our project. I want to see it work out and I do think pedestrians into our 00:40:43
shopping center does benefit us probably more than 10 months. 00:40:48
Next slide. 00:40:56
Oh, is there any other comments? Oh last question I had on. 00:40:58
That's the last slide, OK. Any other question on 400 N or comments on 400 N? 00:41:01
I view 400 N as a major thoroughfare to get through and it's got to connect and it would easily take off a lot of stress off of 00:41:08
Center Street. So critical to like maximize that. But then #2 on your parking, and I know it already passed of like, are you going 00:41:16
to be asking less than the minimum that the city requires now? Yeah. So I, I can't remember the exact section within the 00:41:24
development agreement, but there's a requirement of us to go in the development agreement out to. 00:41:32
Engineering for our infrastructure, which is related to. 00:41:41
Water impact and sewer impact as well as parking and and come back with a third party report for that. The way that the current 00:41:44
code is written now, which I think is a blanket code across. 00:41:51
A zone that I don't know how much it should apply to this exact site to be honest with you, but as we're we're quite a bit over 00:41:59
parked in our current shopping center. If you don't include Megaplex, which technically isn't my issue or problem, I've been 00:42:04
trying to help solve it as much as I could. 00:42:09
Umm, I would see I I would think that a blanket approach to parking a. 00:42:15
A structured parking mixed-use facility using code that's intended for. 00:42:21
Surface park, asphalt garden style apartments. 00:42:28
We didn't think it was appropriate and so we thought working with an engineer and through the development agreement and then 00:42:33
coming back with the engineers recommendations that there could be a potential for the appropriate number being allocated. I'm not 00:42:39
saying whether that's less or more. It's currently showing significantly less than what the blanket code shows. 00:42:45
By over 202 hundred stalls, we're not going to be asking for that much of A reduction at all. What we would like to do is not have 00:42:52
a lot of unused stalls, but I think the details of the engineering report, I think we can get to you all between now and the time 00:42:57
we apply. 00:43:02
Any meetings that need to be had with Hales without me there? I'm happy to arrange or or you can reach out directly to Hales, but. 00:43:09
I think unused stalls, it shows a success. They're not a negative, it shows you planned. 00:43:17
I love seeing it. It's like people die, grandmother gets sick missing somebody comes home from a mission. 00:43:25
A plan for somebody get to work. Truck life happens. I like empty stalls sometimes. 00:43:33
I I I would agree for it. 00:43:41
There, I think there was, I think there's an appropriate number is what I'm saying. If you didn't see any, any vacant stalls at 00:43:44
all in front of Cafe Rio, you probably wouldn't go eat there right where you didn't see any vacant stalls at all at the bank, you 00:43:50
might go to the next branch. So yes, there has to be vacant stalls at times, but I think there's an appropriate number that. 00:43:56
People smarter than me usually come up with. 00:44:02
And, and I think it would be, it would be beneficial if council could meet with Hales Engineering, maybe one-on-one even. Yeah, 00:44:08
we'll facilitate those meetings. 00:44:13
Anything, any way that we can assist is we have quite a bit of property adjacent to the rents were. 00:44:51
So right now, money is being spent down on design and we're moving forward. And recently we were able to renegotiate some of the 00:44:56
closed intersections in the city. So we had to pull back and open up some additional intersections, but those are moving forward 00:45:03
right now. So we're really close to finalizing the next phase of development for removing the spurs, the spur line. U Dot's been 00:45:10
assisting us in that meeting. If you want, we can keep you informed as we move through that process. 00:45:17
Yeah. I think that would be important, especially for this project as well. OK, Thank you. Thanks. 00:45:25
All right, that brings us to our public comments. This is a time for anybody in the audience that wants to address the council on 00:45:30
things that are not currently on the agenda. If you have something come up to the podium, state your name, where you're from, and 00:45:35
we will hear your comments. 00:45:40
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard Resident First of all, I want to say what a wonderful job the city did working with citizens and 00:45:54
cleaning up the graffiti over the weekend. That was amazing how it happened so quickly and so seamlessly. So I think that's 00:46:02
wonderful. I've talked a few times before about the importance of transparency and building trust. 00:46:09
Between those on the council and those who live in Vineyard. 00:46:17
And I just wanted to talk a little bit about transparency and what does it mean to us? 00:46:21
And as I've thought about this, to me in government, transparency is the obligation to share information with citizens. 00:46:26
That is needed to make informed decisions and hold officials accountable for the conduct of the people's business. 00:46:37
So what you do is the business of all of us who pay taxes and who reside here and make this city possible. 00:46:45
Transparency implies openness, communication, and accountability. 00:46:55
And lack of transparency fosters an US versus them attitude, and that's not what we want. 00:47:00
So I have concerns. 00:47:08
One, I'm going to share one of many with you when transparency was needed but not afforded to the citizen and possibly even to 00:47:11
some of the council here in Vineyard. And perhaps we could look at this and improve based on what happened there. And this is 00:47:20
something that I always go back to because this was a big meeting where lots of things happened and this is the December 13th. 00:47:28
I'll wait. 00:47:38
This was the December 13th Council meeting last. 00:47:44
Last year in 2023 and we had on the agenda we had 9. 00:47:48
Consent items. 00:47:54
There the 8th one was 6.8 approval of economic strategy contract extensions. 00:47:57
OK, Now Please note on this, this particular item or any of the items that were consent items that day. 00:48:06
There was no names, there was no amount, so there were no dollar figures and we had no idea who these consent items were between 00:48:14
or with or for or any of them. So. 00:48:21
Marty, and I appreciate you doing this. She apologized for not knowing anything about this particular consent. I don't know. She 00:48:29
asked for an explanation. 00:48:34
And so because Morgan wasn't here at the time, Jamie offered to give an explanation. When I checked the minutes, the explanation 00:48:40
was not in the minutes. It just simply said that Jamie explained it. So I got to take all of my afternoon and go through the 00:48:49
recording so that I could hear how he explained it. So I'm going to read to you, he said. 00:48:58
And I'm going to quote it. 00:49:08
I can find it here in my notes. 00:49:10
The explanation was limited at best, and in answer to Macy's question, he stated there are agreements the city has been working on 00:49:18
with a number of economic development entities and this resolution is to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew and 00:49:25
continue those relationships with the word that he used. 00:49:33
No messing with membership. 00:49:42
I'm sorry, I'm going to continue. 00:49:44
I don't believe this explanation was completely accurate as I mentioned. 00:49:47
It was actually a resolution that allowed for our mayor. 00:49:55
To renew her membership with the World Trade Center Utah for two years. 00:49:59
Relationships and memberships are not the same thing. 00:50:05
So this is not a transparent answer I'm going to have. I'm not going to have you go for 15 seconds more and then we have to stop. 00:50:10
Well, I need to finish. 00:50:14
The way that this works is that you have provided amount of time. I stopped because you left and went over there and I wanted you 00:50:19
to hear what I had and then you had two additional minutes added to it. Resolution. As I said, it allowed for her to have those 00:50:25
two more. So I hope you can see why this is upsetting because there was no transparency in any of these consent items. There was 00:50:31
no dollar figure, there was no names, there was nothing there and it was just everything was approved. I think there was one that 00:50:37
was pulled. 00:50:43
OK, other consent items. Karen, it's time you have to end the comment now. OK, Well, I just want to if you have more transparency 00:50:49
in this community and if we are going if you are going to ask. 00:50:56
We would like you to be transparent with us. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comment. If you have additional things that 00:51:03
you want to say, we can say it after this. 00:51:07
Well, I would just like the steer resolution made that transparency will be in all agenda items. Thank you. Thank you so much, 00:51:12
Karen. 00:51:16
Any further comments? 00:51:23
Hi, Ryan Holdaway, Vineyard resident. 00:51:27
I actually came in today to thank the city for the participation in the memorial which was built to remember Sienna. 00:51:30
I understood that was on Orem property and I understood that they were building that, but I was really pleased to see Vineyard 00:51:41
City trucks. 00:51:47
And engagement obviously in the in the building and the Memorial Day. And I think it's really important because. 00:51:52
These are our children and as a as a driver, myself and I'll. 00:52:01
I'll tell everybody on put it on record. I was pulled over today because I I stopped for something in the crosswalk, but I didn't 00:52:07
wait until I left the crosswalk to drive forward and I was pulled over and given a warning. 00:52:12
And as somebody who looks at that bench every day driving home, I, I failed. And so I think that's really important and protecting 00:52:18
our children is. 00:52:25
It's it's just such a tragedy that she had to lose her life though. So that being said, I do want to mention how grateful I am for 00:52:33
the city and the council and youth manner for thinking about the future and protecting our way of life in Vineyard. 00:52:41
And. 00:52:50
As it relates to as the city is growing exponentially and, and I'm really glad to see agenda items to change how the council and 00:52:52
the mayor work together. And I just would like to publicly state that I would really encourage you guys to not think about the 00:52:59
status quo in the relationships that you have right now, but think about as we change our our form of government, what is what our 00:53:07
government is going to need in five to 10 years from now. So that's my comment and I appreciate this time. 00:53:14
Thank you. 00:53:24
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:53:32
I'd like to also commend our city staff, NASIM and Cash Yancy. 00:53:36
For taking care of that terrible graffiti and it's just, it's just sad and just grateful that it was taken care of immediately. 00:53:42
That was wonderful. Also, that bench is really cool looking. I rode my bike by it. I really liked it. I just have a couple 00:53:49
questions. What is the date for the next public hearing about the change of government? I know that we're having our first public 00:53:56
hearing tonight. I would like to know what the next date for that, for the next public hearing is. 00:54:03
And also. 00:54:11
Our ex development gentleman mentioned parking. I have a concern about the lakefront parking that we were going to talk about 00:54:13
what's going to happen. 00:54:18
From the month November through March when cars are supposed to be off the road for snow removal, if that parking is going to be 00:54:25
allowed for overnight parking on 3rd West, what will happen to those cars during that time period for snow removal? Thank you. 00:54:33
Thank you. 00:54:43
I am Mike Cox, Vineyard resident. 00:54:52
I wanted to just stand out and publicly say how much I love being a Vineyard over the 4th of July and I love being in Utah County 00:54:57
over the 4th of July. It means a lot to me what goes on. 00:55:04
I would like to say that I got involved with what's going on at Vineyard about three years ago. 00:55:14
When my wife and I both felt like. 00:55:24
So we didn't get honesty from our mayor about parking situation. We have to buy parking passes to park in front of our house and. 00:55:27
At first we were told that we could get to, but then when the final thing came down, we voted against it because it was only one 00:55:42
and we needed more than one. 00:55:46
Anyway I. 00:55:51
I have the amazing opportunity, um. 00:55:54
During March and April. 00:55:57
To go door to door and vineyard and umm. 00:56:01
There's one most profound experiences in my life. I knew that I lived among amazing people, but after. 00:56:06
Spending over a month knocking on doors and Vineyard, I was truly moved by house caring and how wonderful and how amazing the 00:56:15
people are here in Vineyard. But I want to say. 00:56:22
That and I can give you all the exact dates and names, the addresses. 00:56:31
Everything I talked to. 00:56:38
786 households in Vineyard. 00:56:40
OK. 00:56:45
And. 00:56:47
Of those 786, I told them that I joined a group that was against what the mayor was doing and against what the City Council had 00:56:49
been doing, and we helped to get two people on City Council. I told them that and. 00:56:56
Out of 786 doors, roofs, households, I found one person who was in favor of our mayor. 00:57:04
And that person happened to be on the Planning Commission. 00:57:14
So I started out talking to these people because I got involved because parking was a disaster. OK, so I want to tell everyone 00:57:17
here, everyone here, 785 to one. 00:57:24
That's how we feel about what's going on with the developers and with high density and with parking. 00:57:32
Comes in here and asks for less parking and you give it to them. 00:57:42
And there's problems in every single every single high density place and vineyard. Everyone has a problem. 00:57:47
So this is the tidal wave that's coming for all of you, 785 to one. Thank you very much. 00:57:55
If you are looking to make a comment, can you raise your hands or public comment? 00:58:12
All right, this is going to be the final comment. 00:58:17
I want to commend the mayor and the council on being diligent and wanting to. 00:58:22
David Larae, resident. 00:58:26
Anyway, welcome to mayor and the council on on being diligent about making sure we move forward the city business and so forth. 00:58:29
And sorry, I understand that that was the reason behind selling these limits on public comment. I would, however, also like to 2nd 00:58:36
Karen Cornetti's comments about transparency. It's a very important thing to have a trust between the citizenry and their 00:58:44
government and I just have to say that. 00:58:51
This limiting that you've been doing, I know it's a million times just to move things along, but the effect is to cause a lot of 00:58:59
great distrust amongst the citizenry. And I'd, I'd ask you if you would please to reconsider that and perhaps find another way to 00:59:04
move things along, but still allow people to be able to speak their mind and give you information they want to give. Thank you. 00:59:10
Thanks. 00:59:16
OK. We'll go ahead and move on to our next item, which is our consent items. Can I get a motion? 00:59:23
I move to approve the consent items as presented first by Amber. Can I get a second? 00:59:38
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 00:59:43
All right, hey, I have a question. Why is it #5 the report and we just skipped to seven one. You just do that in the meeting. I'm 00:59:48
moving those down. Yeah. Why don't we organize this before the meetings so people know the order? Sometimes I do. I just been 00:59:56
making a judgement call to get to some important public hearings tonight. All right, 9.1 discussing an action. This is the parking 01:00:04
permit program resolution 2024-17 and our senior planner cash hand people present. 01:00:11
Thank you, Mayor, I'll be presenting in his place. 01:00:23
Was unable to come tonight. So I'm Morgan Brand, the Community Development Director. And so tonight we're looking at a resolution 01:00:26
which would provide allowance for overnight parking on 300 W and on Loop Rd. which is that perpendicular Rd. that connects in at 01:00:32
that location. 01:00:38
It would limit it to one parking permit per household. 01:00:45
The resolution would provide 5 parking permits to the lakefront at Town Center HOA that they could provide to their residents for 01:00:51
temporary guest parking. 01:00:57
The permit would be provided to city residents on a first come, first serve basis. 01:01:04
It does have a requirement in there for the clubhouse parking which I believe is 29 stalls. 01:01:11
To be opened for their residents to park overnight. 01:01:18
And so we felt that was important that there was some on site parking. 01:01:24
It would provide. 01:01:29
It would limit 12 of the parking stalls. 01:01:32
On 300 W that would not be allowed for overnight parking so that we can preserve that. So on a Saturday morning, folks go into the 01:01:37
lake would still have that, have access to some of those stalls. 01:01:43
The so we will provide up to 70 or 87 street parking stalls for overnight parking. If the if the H way would like more than that, 01:01:52
then it would require the kind of the first remedy to provide those and to build more parking on site up to 25 stalls before we we 01:02:01
would provide more more on site parking. 01:02:09
I think that pretty much sums up that kind of kind of the main points of the resolution. Do you know if our permitting ordinance 01:02:20
touches a snow removal or if we just defer to our snow removal ordinance? Yeah, that we, so we, we have the the winter. 01:02:30
Parking restriction when it's punished, forms coming in. 01:02:41
Yeah, yeah, it'd have been applied to all and that's just for citywide parking in general. Everybody can park on the street and 01:02:45
then everybody has to move solutions. So it would be, it would require that from everyone. OK, great. Thank you for all of your 01:02:52
work on this and thanks for bringing it back to us. Are there questions from the council or any comments? No, thank you, Sarah. I 01:02:58
think we did have a, we did have a. 01:03:05
Apologize for putting that up. So we would like to have at least the program in place in August so we can start issuing permits. 01:03:46
But most likely we would wait till, I believe, September. We would advertise and let people know so that if there are folks that 01:03:53
have been parking out there, then they'd be able to make adjustments before getting towed or booted. Perfect. OK Marty, did you 01:03:59
have anything to add? I know you said it on a lot of these meetings. 01:04:06
I just want to read what Amber said. I feel like Sarah's done a really good job working with the HOA. I was able to sit in on a 01:04:14
meeting and I think from my understanding there was some good compromises made and I really appreciate the work you put into. 01:04:22
Excellent. OK, then I need a motion. I just want to make a comment. I think I think this is a very good step. 01:04:29
Important, but I think there's some rules or different things. 01:04:39
That I wish there were some adjustments to, but it like is a step in the right direction and what the current vote stands it, it's 01:04:44
my understanding that we're going to be doing a parking permit in the city and they're going to be paying us right. And what's the 01:04:48
total dollar amount? 01:04:53
Yeah, it's 60, but but it's, it's prorated. And so every month it goes, it goes down a little bit. And so that's yeah, so it's not 01:05:00
so cuz we've had residents that you're like, well, why do we have to pay the full amount? It's November, we're only getting the 01:05:06
benefit for two months and so. 01:05:12
Yeah, it it's 60 for the full year, and then it drops at least $5.00 a month a month. You know, I remember being here when that 01:05:20
development had hundreds of people protesting the parking problem. 01:05:27
Or the amount of empty parking stalls and just screaming and saying hey, there needs to be more. And I just think that's why I go 01:05:35
back to empty parking as people live differently than what a designer thought. And I hate that now the city is profiting, you 01:05:42
know, the $60.00. And I wish in the future if we had the votes to not have to charge that. But I do support the medium ground and 01:05:49
I think this is a good step in the right direction. I just wish that it would be more aggressive but. 01:05:57
It's the it's the movement that we got, but I would definitely campaign or push for more of. 01:06:05
Just open it up and let him park. But I know I don't. We don't have the votes for that. 01:06:13
In regards to your statement, it was not just the City Council that thought opening up is completely free was. 01:06:18
The best decision, so just to clarify, I wanted to understand your statement. Were you saying you want to do passes, that you want 01:06:27
the passes free or you passes it all in the future? I think the passes should have been done by the HOA and not the city or I 01:06:34
believe that the HOA should be able to control that themselves and not so just to clarify as well. 01:06:42
It is A to do that. It would be a public private partnership that you said you don't like in the past. So I'm just wondering. 01:06:52
If that affects your thought on that at all, no, it doesn't affect it. 01:06:58
It doesn't mean it's a public Rd. So it could take that, but it's, it's not a, it's a compromise that's positive and moves it in 01:07:02
the right direction. That was my understanding is that because it's a city road, then the city takes responsibility for the 01:07:10
upkeep. And so that's, that's why it felt like a little bit of a fair exchange for them. But I feel like they've been very fair on 01:07:18
their pricing and, and we've talked to about during the holiday season, just not patrolling at all, like giving, giving leeway. 01:07:26
Where we can give leeway, I think is good. And and it's opened up to to anyone who needs one. We have found that that there was 01:07:34