Bookmark1
Bookmark2
Bookmark3
Bookmark4
Bookmark5
Bookmark6
Bookmark7
Bookmark8
Bookmark9
Bookmark10
Bookmark11
Bookmark12
Bookmark13
Bookmark14
Bookmark15
Bookmark16
Bookmark17
Bookmark18
Bookmark19
Bookmark20
Bookmark21
Bookmark22
Bookmark23
Bookmark24
Bookmark25
Bookmark26
Bookmark27
Bookmark28
Bookmark29
Bookmark30
Bookmark31
Bookmark32
Bookmark33
Bookmark34
Bookmark35
Bookmark36
Bookmark37
Bookmark38
Bookmark39
Bookmark40
Bookmark41
Bookmark42
Bookmark43
Bookmark44
Bookmark45
Bookmark46
Bookmark47
Bookmark48
Bookmark49
Bookmark50
Bookmark51
Bookmark52
All right. 00:00:04
Oh good, let's follow up after this meeting. 00:00:09
OK, Thank you all for being here tonight. Today is July 10th, 2024 and that's the year and the time is 601 and we're going to 00:00:13
start our Vineyard City Council meeting. Our our Councilwoman Sarah Cameron is going to lead us in a invocation and Pledge of 00:00:21
Allegiance. 00:00:28
My dear Father in heaven, we come before the at the beginning of this Council meeting. 00:00:40
To ask for your guidance and direction and the things that we do and the things that we decide and we pray that that we will have 00:00:45
a spirit of peace and. 00:00:50
Collaboration together. 00:00:56
We ask that we will be mindful to always strive to protect the freedoms that that are provided in our our country through your. 00:00:59
Through your divine protection, we love thee and say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:10
All right. Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:17
All right, that moves us right into our work session. We're going to start with a presentation on the Water's Edge Home 00:01:38
Association. We had some questions from some of our council and we kind of wanted to review how the Water's Edge Homeowners 00:01:45
Association works in relation to the council, and I'm going to let our legal counsel lead out on that. 00:01:52
Jamie, did you want to give us an introduction and then our council can ask any questions they might have? Sure. Thank you, Mayor. 00:01:58
This will be a very general reflection on what HOA's are relative to what city governments are and where how they might overlap. 00:02:07
There may be details about the specific situation in Water's Edge that'll require some additional look or some additional 00:02:14
conversation. But what I understand generally is that some members of the community have approached the city and said, city, can 00:02:21
you take over the HOA? 00:02:28
And the short answer to that is no, cities can't on their own take over HOA's. HOA's are created by private property covenants. 00:02:36
Those covenants are created pursuant to state legislation, but they are private property rights. And when a developer establishes 00:02:43
an HOA or a community establishes an HOA, they do it with the consent of all the land owners within that community, often with HO 00:02:51
as. 00:02:58
Created by a developer. They have a period of time where the developer will control the HOA and then once a certain threshold of 00:03:05
units are sold, it's often between 50 and 75% of units. 00:03:12
The control of the HOA will shift from the developer controlling it to the residents in the community electing their own, or I 00:03:20
shouldn't say residents, the home owners within the community electing their own representatives to the HOA board or the 00:03:25
committee. 00:03:30
Depending on what it's called in the in the different Hoas. So it wouldn't be appropriate for the city to assert itself and assume 00:03:36
control of an HOA. To do so would be to to take away the private property rights that those homeowners enjoy. There are some 00:03:44
things HO as do that look and feel a lot like government. They, they can make assessments, they can enforce their rules and their 00:03:52
requirements within the purview of their governing documents and what they state. 00:04:00
There also is property that Hoas own in common, which means all of the residents of the HOA own those properties together, manage 00:04:08
those properties together. They can hire somebody to do the management, the maintenance and the work on it, but they own it in 00:04:16
common is the legal term. And often cities are asked by Hoas that haven't maintained their common areas appropriately to take on 00:04:24
the maintenance because. 00:04:31
There's no other vehicle or tool to do it, or they simply wish for things like private roads, private parks to no longer be 00:04:40
private roads and private parks, but to be public roads and public parks that are owned and controlled by the city. I'm not aware 00:04:47
of the city making any attempt to try to insert itself into the situation that any particular HOA at the city, but I I know there 00:04:55
have been from time to time requests from residents. 00:05:02
Asking why, why isn't the city doing this? And really the answer is it's because it's common property controlled by the HOA and 00:05:10
it's their responsibility and not the cities. So that's kind of a general rough overview of how property rights work with an HOA 00:05:18
relative to the city. And I'm happy if there are more specific questions to answer those to the best of my ability. We may get to 00:05:26
a point where the answer will have to be, we'd have to pull the private covenants, see what they say. 00:05:34
And then we can determine what the right answer is. But. 00:05:42
With that, excellent. Thank you. Are there any questions by the City Council? 00:05:46
Yeah, I have one because there have been a few of the citizens that have that have asked about. 00:05:52
The ability to have their own, it's Hoas are kind of scattered throughout the city, right. So you have lakefront that has their 00:05:59
own. And so some of the neighborhoods were wondering what it would take to be able to pull out of the main one and establish their 00:06:07
own. So they have more autonomy and decisions in there. Yeah, great question. They would so. 00:06:14
A private attorney could advise them on that. If there were overlap between city issues and their issues, I would not be able to 00:06:23
advise them because I'd be conflicted out, but I could put them in touch with somebody that could help them on that. Where where 00:06:31
you would want to look if you have that kind of question is to pull your, it'll be called your covenants conditions. 00:06:38
And restrictions or CNR, sometimes it will be called the declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions. And so they'll 00:06:46
call it the declaration for short. But if you have, they used to call them master and servant Hoas, they've gone away from that 00:06:52
because that language is loaded. 00:06:58
A little bit. And so they'll call it a controlling HOA and then subordinate HOA's where you have that situation, the control you'd 00:07:05
you'd have to 1st pull the CCNR for the controlling HOA and then it would have in it provisions for how many votes would be 00:07:13
required to modify the covenants. And if they were to able to assemble enough votes to meet that threshold, then they could modify 00:07:21
the covenants, record those changes. 00:07:28
And either do away with the controlling HOA and, and revert to where they have, you know, the sub HOA, then become the only HOA or 00:07:37
modify it. There will be a lot of moving parts when they do that just because of how they all interrelate and work together. And 00:07:44
they'll have bank accounts and finances and things like that to work through. But you can do it. OK, OK, thank you. Any other 00:07:51
questions? 00:07:58
I think this is a classic example of like if I think if this were on the agenda, the topic and we advertised this like a week 00:08:08
longer, I think we would get more citizen ideas or input on this. But with it 24 hours I don't have any questions is a good 00:08:15
example of like could we, we and we talked about that. 00:08:22
This is a work session, correct? 00:08:31
So we're not voting on anything. 00:08:33
It's like I'm just saying I can't. I've been talking to quite a few of them over the last few months. And so this was kind of my, 00:09:08
yeah, kind of something I've been working on. So I have been talking about them. I didn't realize we were going to talk about it. 00:09:14
Right. I'm just saying like as a rule, we keep talking about information and we can take it back to the timing of, hey, this is a 00:09:22
week out and Jake, I agree with you. So I would like to still see that on the agenda. I don't remember when it's planned and 00:09:28
sooner the better. I think what we're missing and I think what I hopefully can clarify is this. 00:09:35
Where I can't, if it conflicts with my duties to the city, I can refer them to a capable lawyer who can give them an initial 00:10:57
consultancy direction. Excellent, thank you so much. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to 3.2 X Development parking proposal 00:11:04
and Eric Turner with X Development Will. 00:11:11
Introduce this topic to the Council. Come on up. 00:11:19
Eric Downer, Next Development. 00:11:26
Eric Towner X Development. 00:11:31
Is there a way to provide another microphone so that the recording touches it? 00:11:37
That'd be fine. 00:11:43
Can we use the other staff on the longer staff? Yeah. 00:11:48
But not I think it's. 00:11:52
Let's see how that's working. Eric Towner with X Development. Are you catching that, Pam? Perfect. Let's go. OK. Yeah, we are here 00:12:03
to have a discussion, an open discussion in a work session setting. This is not an application for anything. This is to help us 00:12:10
prepare for an application more than anything else. 00:12:17
To get some feedback before we spend more time, more energy, more effort and especially more money into design and development 00:12:25
looking. And I think our development agreement actually requires us to come back and have these discussions generally about a, a 00:12:34
usually a hot button topic within the city is, is parking. So we do have the yard mixed-use which is within the RMU zone. 00:12:43
We've developed almost 40 acres there of commercial property. The remaining 4 acres is has been previously approved for a 00:12:53
mixed-use building. So why we're here today is just to have these discussions so that we can prepare better for an application 00:13:01
which would be what we understood to finalize the the development agreement or to amend the development agreement that we were. We 00:13:08
were required to complete some studies before we could move forward with the project. 00:13:16
So. 00:13:23
December 8, 2021 City Council approved of the mixed-use building. Approximately like 340 units were approved at that time. 00:13:26
Or 350 units or something. We're quite a bit below that with what we've been able to obtain with our architect and how it will fit 00:13:33
with the height requirements and everything that we have in there. We'll get into that in just a second. Wanted to make sure that 00:13:41
you are aware of some of the findings that we have. We have hired third party engineers and so we'll discuss that today. Want to 00:13:49
make sure that our parking proposals that are going to going to be coming forth to a City Council meeting as a. 00:13:56
An amendment to the development agreement still align with the goals of the city and and the recommendations of the third party 00:14:05
engineers and the need that we have to actually develop the building. I wanna confirm that the city's goals are still the same 00:14:10
today. It's been I think almost two years since we had this approval on this property, about a year and a half and we've spent a 00:14:16
significant amount of time and resources and energy into creating what I I think is going to be a potentially a really good 00:14:22
project. 00:14:28
Yeah, discuss the future application that we'll make for an amendment to the development agreement. And then also some things 00:14:35
maybe have changed or have not changed with 400 N and discussed exactly what the goals that the city has for 400 N It would help 00:14:41
us better prepare that that application when we do come with that. 00:14:46
OK, so here's what we've heard in previous meetings tracking the city for the last year and a half since our, our, our approval. 00:14:54
You know, we, we believe that it's an appropriate place for for the mixed-use project. It it seemed like that was the case two 00:15:01
years ago when it was approved that it's an appropriate place for a, a next use project. That third party engineering studies 00:15:08
would be required of us is in the current development agreement as we understand it to determine actual infrastructure. 00:15:16
For impacts, water use, sewer use and parking need and a parking requirement. We've completed some of the third party engineering 00:15:24
studies to this point, particularly with traffic. As we understand this will add traffic to 400 N, This will add traffic within 00:15:31
our shopping center and there will be a parking need. Also. The engineering studies were done based off of our plans for a 00:15:39
controlled parking garage, parking management plans, I think in the development agreement. 00:15:46
Required. So we just wanted to see before we finalize those plans, if there's any input from City Council for what those parking 00:15:53
management plans would look like. 00:15:57
We believe and we've heard commercial development is a priority for City Council. This is a mixed-use building that contemplates 00:16:04
the. 00:16:07
In our eyes, a substantial amount of square footage of the main level area to be used for retail purposes and commercial purposes. 00:16:11
Just making sure the quality of life for all Vineyard cities is Vineyard Residences is still critical for the city council's 00:16:20
mission. Obviously, that's probably remaining true need a city with a a variety of incomes and and, and all citizens need to be 00:16:27
accommodated for that. We believe this this housing project will will significantly enhance. 00:16:34
The ability for residents to come here and stay here. This will be a fun place for people to live. Pedestrian bicycle access is a 00:16:42
priority for City Council. We've heard that several times in the past. Want to make sure that's still a goal or something we 00:16:48
should be for sure incorporating into this project or if it's changed. City views on 400 N as an important east West connection. 00:16:55
If the city has goals of connecting that to the residential side of Vineyard West of the tracks, eventually obviously through into 00:17:01
Orem. 00:17:07
Through Geneva Rd. 00:17:14
Work, play, eat, recreate, all without having to get out of their car. Man, the zoning code is tough to actually list that out. 00:17:51
You'd probably be 1000 pages if you were trying to actually define exactly what the requirements would be to accomplish that. And 00:18:00
and things change a little bit over time as well. So what we believe is that. 00:18:08
The appropriate process that that we're hoping to take and that we thought through the development agreement was agreed upon is 00:18:16
that we would rely on 3rd party engineers and outside studies and have an active feedback through the process of of how the design 00:18:20
of the mixed-use building would go. 00:18:25
Within a shopping center. 00:18:29
This is the site we're talking about. 00:18:32
Thank everybody familiar with it. 00:18:35
Like I said, this is the remaining site that we have. We don't have any more lands within the yard shopping center. We've got a 00:18:37
couple of pads available that we're hoping to start construction soon on the North End. That's pretty much it. Mountain America 00:18:44
Credit Union is scheduled to open pretty soon. And I think that building looks really good, by the way. OK, next. And Eric, just 00:18:52
don't worry at the council in case they're not seeing full facility, but this is Mill Road, 400 N here and then obviously Geneva. 00:18:59
Yes, and currently 400 N is closed. It's under construction or improvements for Central Utah water and some other infrastructure 00:19:07
items. 00:19:11
This was one of our previous concept plans that we're working with through the development agreement process. You know, very 00:19:15
simple, just trying to do a test fit to see, you know, what would be the appropriate amount of units potentially to bring in here. 00:19:22
At that time we were thinking around 340 units, 350 units somewhere in that area. As we spent significantly more resources and 00:19:28
done more studies and looked at market need and whatnot, it's changed a little bit. If you can go to the next. 00:19:35
Site plan. 00:19:43
Updated site plan brings it down to about 302 units, so less units actually for this site. A little bit different of a mix between 00:19:45
two-bedroom, one bedroom and studio, but like I said, we relied pretty heavily on outside. 00:19:53
Consultants to to direct us as to how to design this, but this is this is getting pretty close to what we'd like to. It's not 00:20:03
finalized and we'll hopefully have a more final version once we apply for a finalization of the development agreement through that 00:20:07
amendment. 00:20:12
Still maintaining the commercial square footage on that main level of about 14,000 square feet. 00:20:19
Vineyards parking requirements for 302 units currently would be 628. 00:20:27
Total stalls with the commercial involved as well. 00:20:33
Our reports came back from Hales Engineering. 00:20:37
If you go to the next slide. 00:20:42
Hills Engineering, um. 00:20:47
They look at the yard overall currently saying, and I don't know if I need to go back into history. I know City Council has 00:20:49
changed quite a bit since we've started developing, but the megaplex was developed by another developer. We acquired all the 00:20:54
surrounding property around the megaplex. 00:20:59
Obviously significant severely under parked the megaplex was we've tried really hard to solve some of their problems or fix some 00:21:05
of their problems, but our our current and and even gone to the extent of helping. 00:21:12
The Edgewater The HOA Edgewater in accommodating them with some of our land to create a parking, a parking field for them. 00:21:19
As doing so, I think we've been extremely conservative for our parking and and I know that's been a requirement of City Council 00:21:29
that we push parking and push parking and push parking. What what was resulted is we are a little bit over parked in the yard 00:21:36
currently right now and and Hails Engineering is has updated us to that and we can have them talk to it. Hails Engineering's ITE 00:21:44
recommendations for this next use building would be 422 stalls, roughly 200 stalls less than the current city code would require. 00:21:51
I'm not proposing that we go down that low. I'm just that's that's where their third party reports came in a comparable property. 00:22:01
Two hours. 00:22:05
Is that improv or can you say that again? It's too low, The code is too low. Like the code would require like 628 stalls for 302 00:22:12
units. 00:22:17
Engineering standards would recommend 422. 00:22:23
Knowing that this is a parking structure, a controlled parking structure, is how they study it, but we're not proposing that we go 00:22:27
down to 422. By the way, I'm just this is the result of the development agreement requiring me to present a report. 00:22:34
When we come in for our final application, comparable property would require $348 obvious I think too low as well. We developed 00:22:42
two actual need is, is what our hope is. We don't want to have fast parking fields that are empty. We don't want to have tenants 00:22:50
who don't have the ability to park either. I think there's an appropriate way to get to the the accurate number, but that that is 00:22:58
a result of the the Hills engineering study and Hales is here right now if you guys want to ask them any questions. 00:23:06
They're going to a lot more detail when we actually do this, but you guys have a need to ask any questions of Hales. 00:23:14
Today. 00:23:21
Does anybody want to ask any questions? 00:23:23
Not right now what it looks like. 00:23:26
What we're likely this is not final at all. This is what our architect has come up with at this point, likely to create about 503 00:23:31
new stalls. 00:23:37
That would be above and beyond what our partner in Austin, TX, the multi family and mixed-use developer that we're partnering with 00:23:45
on this building, above and beyond what they would request us to build. But this is something that I think we would push to have 00:23:52
them build, understanding that this community is a little sensitive to parking requirements, Cross parking. Currently right now we 00:23:58
have 58 unused stalls at the yard on the South end. 00:24:04
And we believe the type of commercial use that will be coming into this building. 00:24:12
Eyebrow waxing insurance agents, executive tweets for people who want to work from home or Zoom meetings. Those are those are the 00:24:19
types that come in too. It's not going to be like a cafe, real restaurant or something like that at the base level of an apartment 00:24:25
building. These are smaller little retailer or private training suites type type retail uses. And if you're interested, we can 00:24:31
bring in at the next meeting. 00:24:37
A lot of examples what other mixed-use buildings have for that tenant mix. 00:24:44
So that's something that does anybody have any questions about this number or any comments to this number? Did you attach health 00:24:50
parking study on this or is that something that we can meet with them at a later point and talk about? Yeah, I think is that 00:24:55
something that. 00:25:00
You have it? Yeah, it's up right now. 00:25:06
OK. 00:25:09
This is their, their, their memo. So I mean they may have more data that they put put together their summary memo and I'm sure 00:25:13
that they can speak to that they're here. 00:25:18
Yeah. And I think Hales is open for, I mean, Joseph is here right now. 00:25:24
I think they'd be open for any type of discussion or meeting without us present. If you guys need that, that's great. Just the 00:25:30
idea that we have it on file so we can go review and then set up those meetings, I think is very helpful. Thank you. 00:25:36
OK. 00:25:48
So that that would be something that we're looking to discuss in in much more detail at a City Council meeting, in more of a back 00:25:49
and forth with with public comment. 00:25:54
And something that maybe prior to that we can get the full engineering study to you all so that you're much more prepared and much 00:26:01
more educated prior to that City Council meeting structured parking. We have not finished our parking management plan. Do you, is 00:26:06
there any? 00:26:11
The previous City Council had had some ideas for a parking management plan for a structured garage parking. I don't think there is 00:26:18
one in the city today. Are there any buildings today with structured parking in Vineyard? You mean coming up, built today, 00:26:23
operating, Yeah. 00:26:28
OK. Is there something particular that the city would like to see in a parking management plan for a structured parking or mayor? 00:26:34
If I could kind of list some of the things that the council discussed in the past. One thing they wanted was to make sure that 00:26:42
there was an inventory and that the management for each of the units had had it connected to the actual vehicles. What we found is 00:26:50
with with the apartment complexes, especially on Mill Rd. the ones that did that early on. 00:26:59
We that's when we started receiving a lot of complaints and the city went through a major effort of, of working with those 00:27:44
apartment complexes to get parking management plans in place. So definitely having like the leases connected to the vehicles. I 00:27:51
think the other one too was having like the inside the structure somewhat controlled where, where the residential is. So you're 00:27:58
not going to just just have, you know, there may be some mix between the retail that that having some. 00:28:06
Some separation so that you do preserve residential parking spaces for, for, for the actual unit so that it's not just one big 00:28:15
open shared, you know, concepts of whether there's a flash card or something like that that provides you entry. I think those were 00:28:21
the two ones. And then there was a request for some sort of security measure. But I, I remember these are the items that were 00:28:27
brought up in past work sessions when went through the, the development agreement. Those were kind of the three main ones. I don't 00:28:33
know. 00:28:39
Yeah. And I feel like there are other things that we talked about prior that we probably went back and forth on with the last 00:28:46
council, but we could get this together and each of our council today could go through and say what's important to them and we'll 00:28:52
send it to you. The other one, I apologize, it was 400 N providing priority retail parking. 00:28:59
On the street so customers could pull up in front of the the retail establishment so they wouldn't have to go inside of the 00:29:05
parking structure if they didn't need to, that there was some priority parking spaces so. 00:29:11
OK. So assigning specific stalls, having those labeled per unit tied to a license plate of a vehicle with a controlled arm or gate 00:29:19
or some way that it's secured and only permitted guests or permitted tenants could use those stalls, is that? 00:29:28
Or whatever measures, it'll be a pretty detailed management plan and any input that you guys could have or ideas that you have for 00:30:16
managing a structured parking garage, that would be probably the first one that would be built in this city that would be helpful. 00:30:23
That's great. I did a project in Salt Lake, downtown Salt Lake called the 702702 building. That's like part of their address and 00:30:32
they did exactly that. They had they had a card. I think you get get through the gate and then there were. 00:30:39
Assigned parking stalls and it was also mixed-use. So if you're in downtown Salt Lake you could maybe go have them show you 00:30:47
because it it worked right but and similar it was kind of similar in size too. 00:30:53
Yeah, OK. We'll look forward to your comments. 00:31:00
On that next slide. 00:31:05
This is. This has changed quite a bit since our original. 00:31:12
Approval the IT didn't appear to be appropriate. At one point we had reverse 45° stalls in front of the building on 400 N where 00:31:17
you would back into your stall. 00:31:22
That has actually, we've seen, we've been to some projects that have done that, that have done that. 00:31:30
I I don't believe 400 N would be an appropriate road to do that on based on what our consultants have come back to us with. Did 00:31:37
you have any other comments on that Morgan or is that? 00:31:42
But there there there was an interest in looking at that. And so I don't think the City Council was dead set on adverse angle, but 00:32:20
there was something that we wanted to have at least looked at from a safety standpoint. OK, So that's not a City Council issue 00:32:24
that. 00:32:28
With one of that four, OK, we've aligned the parking garage entrance with the South entrance on 400 N that will go into our our 00:32:32
Geneva retail, which consists of the hotel and McDonald's and AutoZone and O'reilly's and all of that to the South. So that's, 00:32:39
that's well aligned right now. 00:32:46
The potential that has been coming back to us is can we add more parking on the north side of 400 N? Possibly. This plan right 00:32:53
here is showing additional stalls, 19 more stalls on 400 N that would go in front of the medical office building to the West of 00:32:59
our project. 00:33:05
Kind of within the right of way area, some on private property, something that I would have to negotiate and deal with, but happy 00:33:13
to move forward with those discussions if this is something that's important with. 00:33:18
With the city or with the Council? 00:33:23
The next thing would be adding a potential bike lane on the 400 N is right now in front of our building. 400 N is not improved. 00:33:59
This is an opportunity that we have to work together to improve a right of way to improve what I think is a pretty important 00:34:05
roadway system through throughout the city. Since 800 N and Center Street are are going to be, you know, interchanges with with 00:34:12
I-15 forever, 400 N has the capability to move east and West underneath the freeway. Eventually once once that intersection on 00:34:18
Geneva Rd. is done, the rail is removed. 00:34:24
And connecting that over into Orem and talking about that seemed to just same discussion with them Council. Do you have any 00:35:02
comments on that or anything? 00:35:06
Not just they've been actually some really good feedback about bikeability over there. So I think it's great that you're looking 00:35:11
at that. 00:35:14
My mic was on. I'll have to speak directly. There have been some good commentary from the residents over there about bike ability, 00:35:18
so I appreciate you looking at it. 00:35:23
Yeah, I think the bike lane needs to stay. 00:35:28
Or the requirement for it? 00:35:32
OK. I don't know if there's a requirement currently today, but we're happy to incorporate it into our plans is what I think we 00:35:35
would like as we're looking to finalize or amend the development agreement with these final little details that we're kind of part 00:35:41
of our approval was that we needed to come back with some engineering reports and some studies. 00:35:47
We have met with the engineering. It does appear that we can fit a bike lane onto 400 N If that's what you'd like to see, I'm 00:35:54
happy to incorporate that. 00:35:58
Something else that's been asked of us is if we could add crosswalks on 400 N. 00:36:03
The. 00:36:09
Our engineers, he's been through it. He surveyed it, he's looked at it. Yes, it's possible. Is it something that we view as our 00:36:13
responsibility as as a private property being improved that's not even adjacent to where these crosswalks would go? 00:36:19
I don't know that there could be a legal requirement to us. Is there something that I would I would like to see for my 00:36:28
development? Yeah, I, I actually actually would really like to see a connection with Edgewater, some pedestrian connectivity to to 00:36:34
our site. And so I think adding that crosswalk and slowing some traffic down. 00:36:39
That they wanted to go to restaurants and bring their family, but that they felt that they had to drive just because there, there 00:37:17
there weren't safe crossings. And so there there was a desire from residents to to see that intersection. So Morgan, we talked 00:37:25
about visual changes and also pedestrian plasters or something like that. Is that what this would include or what all would be 00:37:32
enhanced on the site? Mostly just color differentiation so that they can see there's people walking across. 00:37:39
Yeah, this, this is anticipating and it's not a final design. This is our engineer is just idea right now of a different surface 00:37:46
material that would show the crosswalks, ADA ramps on all four corners of this intersection. 00:37:52
To accommodate and somehow pinching down the traffic a little bit, whether it's through paint or landscape adjacent. It didn't 00:37:59
think there was space for a landscape island in the middle of 400 N, but something that would catch driver's eyes to make them 00:38:04
slow down. 00:38:09
The question we would have is what would be the speed limit on this road long long term? 00:38:16
The scene This is a This is a collector Rd. isn't it? 00:38:21
Yes, yes. Can you hear me alright? Yes, it is. 00:38:31
OK. Yeah, I think we we're definitely about in my opinion connecting these two areas and I think a visual change is definitely 00:38:35
important and this is something I think that I will probably need to go back and. 00:38:43
Look at myself and probably talk to Hills and our engineers just to decide how we're going to move forward with collectors and and 00:38:53
then bring that back to the council so that they can have the best information. But it's I think it's appropriate to. 00:39:00
Plan for it, plan for something there so that we can have those conversations. 00:39:08
OK, Brady Morris at Enzyme Engineering is the one who surveyed and he has most of the data if you wanted to get more sketches from 00:39:13
him. 00:39:17
You can reach out to him on your own. We're happy to provide those as well. And Julie, just to just add really quick on the active 00:39:22
transportation plan that we approve one of the elements and it wasn't a requirement, but how it was stated in there. As we add 00:39:28
cross box that will put pedestrian indicators because I think there was some concern about just adding the painted lines. But if 00:39:35
you have the indicators, you're at least wanting people ahead of time because I think we have a couple others that were interested 00:39:41
in doing this year. 00:39:47
So that would be excellent. 00:40:24
OK. 00:40:27
I mean, the last thing would be Jamie will appreciate this is whether we're who's paying for these improvements. 00:40:29
Or required to pay for them. It's something that I do want to see the success of our project. I'm not saying that we wouldn't 00:40:38
participate in it. I do want to see the success of our project. I want to see it work out and I do think pedestrians into our 00:40:43
shopping center does benefit us probably more than 10 months. 00:40:48
Next slide. 00:40:56
Oh, is there any other comments? Oh last question I had on. 00:40:58
That's the last slide, OK. Any other question on 400 N or comments on 400 N? 00:41:01
I view 400 N as a major thoroughfare to get through and it's got to connect and it would easily take off a lot of stress off of 00:41:08
Center Street. So critical to like maximize that. But then #2 on your parking, and I know it already passed of like, are you going 00:41:16
to be asking less than the minimum that the city requires now? Yeah. So I, I can't remember the exact section within the 00:41:24
development agreement, but there's a requirement of us to go in the development agreement out to. 00:41:32
Engineering for our infrastructure, which is related to. 00:41:41
Water impact and sewer impact as well as parking and and come back with a third party report for that. The way that the current 00:41:44
code is written now, which I think is a blanket code across. 00:41:51
A zone that I don't know how much it should apply to this exact site to be honest with you, but as we're we're quite a bit over 00:41:59
parked in our current shopping center. If you don't include Megaplex, which technically isn't my issue or problem, I've been 00:42:04
trying to help solve it as much as I could. 00:42:09
Umm, I would see I I would think that a blanket approach to parking a. 00:42:15
A structured parking mixed-use facility using code that's intended for. 00:42:21
Surface park, asphalt garden style apartments. 00:42:28
We didn't think it was appropriate and so we thought working with an engineer and through the development agreement and then 00:42:33
coming back with the engineers recommendations that there could be a potential for the appropriate number being allocated. I'm not 00:42:39
saying whether that's less or more. It's currently showing significantly less than what the blanket code shows. 00:42:45
By over 202 hundred stalls, we're not going to be asking for that much of A reduction at all. What we would like to do is not have 00:42:52
a lot of unused stalls, but I think the details of the engineering report, I think we can get to you all between now and the time 00:42:57
we apply. 00:43:02
Any meetings that need to be had with Hales without me there? I'm happy to arrange or or you can reach out directly to Hales, but. 00:43:09
I think unused stalls, it shows a success. They're not a negative, it shows you planned. 00:43:17
I love seeing it. It's like people die, grandmother gets sick missing somebody comes home from a mission. 00:43:25
A plan for somebody get to work. Truck life happens. I like empty stalls sometimes. 00:43:33
I I I would agree for it. 00:43:41
There, I think there was, I think there's an appropriate number is what I'm saying. If you didn't see any, any vacant stalls at 00:43:44
all in front of Cafe Rio, you probably wouldn't go eat there right where you didn't see any vacant stalls at all at the bank, you 00:43:50
might go to the next branch. So yes, there has to be vacant stalls at times, but I think there's an appropriate number that. 00:43:56
People smarter than me usually come up with. 00:44:02
And, and I think it would be, it would be beneficial if council could meet with Hales Engineering, maybe one-on-one even. Yeah, 00:44:08
we'll facilitate those meetings. 00:44:13
Anything, any way that we can assist is we have quite a bit of property adjacent to the rents were. 00:44:51
So right now, money is being spent down on design and we're moving forward. And recently we were able to renegotiate some of the 00:44:56
closed intersections in the city. So we had to pull back and open up some additional intersections, but those are moving forward 00:45:03
right now. So we're really close to finalizing the next phase of development for removing the spurs, the spur line. U Dot's been 00:45:10
assisting us in that meeting. If you want, we can keep you informed as we move through that process. 00:45:17
Yeah. I think that would be important, especially for this project as well. OK, Thank you. Thanks. 00:45:25
All right, that brings us to our public comments. This is a time for anybody in the audience that wants to address the council on 00:45:30
things that are not currently on the agenda. If you have something come up to the podium, state your name, where you're from, and 00:45:35
we will hear your comments. 00:45:40
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard Resident First of all, I want to say what a wonderful job the city did working with citizens and 00:45:54
cleaning up the graffiti over the weekend. That was amazing how it happened so quickly and so seamlessly. So I think that's 00:46:02
wonderful. I've talked a few times before about the importance of transparency and building trust. 00:46:09
Between those on the council and those who live in Vineyard. 00:46:17
And I just wanted to talk a little bit about transparency and what does it mean to us? 00:46:21
And as I've thought about this, to me in government, transparency is the obligation to share information with citizens. 00:46:26
That is needed to make informed decisions and hold officials accountable for the conduct of the people's business. 00:46:37
So what you do is the business of all of us who pay taxes and who reside here and make this city possible. 00:46:45
Transparency implies openness, communication, and accountability. 00:46:55
And lack of transparency fosters an US versus them attitude, and that's not what we want. 00:47:00
So I have concerns. 00:47:08
One, I'm going to share one of many with you when transparency was needed but not afforded to the citizen and possibly even to 00:47:11
some of the council here in Vineyard. And perhaps we could look at this and improve based on what happened there. And this is 00:47:20
something that I always go back to because this was a big meeting where lots of things happened and this is the December 13th. 00:47:28
I'll wait. 00:47:38
This was the December 13th Council meeting last. 00:47:44
Last year in 2023 and we had on the agenda we had 9. 00:47:48
Consent items. 00:47:54
There the 8th one was 6.8 approval of economic strategy contract extensions. 00:47:57
OK, Now Please note on this, this particular item or any of the items that were consent items that day. 00:48:06
There was no names, there was no amount, so there were no dollar figures and we had no idea who these consent items were between 00:48:14
or with or for or any of them. So. 00:48:21
Marty, and I appreciate you doing this. She apologized for not knowing anything about this particular consent. I don't know. She 00:48:29
asked for an explanation. 00:48:34
And so because Morgan wasn't here at the time, Jamie offered to give an explanation. When I checked the minutes, the explanation 00:48:40
was not in the minutes. It just simply said that Jamie explained it. So I got to take all of my afternoon and go through the 00:48:49
recording so that I could hear how he explained it. So I'm going to read to you, he said. 00:48:58
And I'm going to quote it. 00:49:08
I can find it here in my notes. 00:49:10
The explanation was limited at best, and in answer to Macy's question, he stated there are agreements the city has been working on 00:49:18
with a number of economic development entities and this resolution is to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew and 00:49:25
continue those relationships with the word that he used. 00:49:33
No messing with membership. 00:49:42
I'm sorry, I'm going to continue. 00:49:44
I don't believe this explanation was completely accurate as I mentioned. 00:49:47
It was actually a resolution that allowed for our mayor. 00:49:55
To renew her membership with the World Trade Center Utah for two years. 00:49:59
Relationships and memberships are not the same thing. 00:50:05
So this is not a transparent answer I'm going to have. I'm not going to have you go for 15 seconds more and then we have to stop. 00:50:10
Well, I need to finish. 00:50:14
The way that this works is that you have provided amount of time. I stopped because you left and went over there and I wanted you 00:50:19
to hear what I had and then you had two additional minutes added to it. Resolution. As I said, it allowed for her to have those 00:50:25
two more. So I hope you can see why this is upsetting because there was no transparency in any of these consent items. There was 00:50:31
no dollar figure, there was no names, there was nothing there and it was just everything was approved. I think there was one that 00:50:37
was pulled. 00:50:43
OK, other consent items. Karen, it's time you have to end the comment now. OK, Well, I just want to if you have more transparency 00:50:49
in this community and if we are going if you are going to ask. 00:50:56
We would like you to be transparent with us. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comment. If you have additional things that 00:51:03
you want to say, we can say it after this. 00:51:07
Well, I would just like the steer resolution made that transparency will be in all agenda items. Thank you. Thank you so much, 00:51:12
Karen. 00:51:16
Any further comments? 00:51:23
Hi, Ryan Holdaway, Vineyard resident. 00:51:27
I actually came in today to thank the city for the participation in the memorial which was built to remember Sienna. 00:51:30
I understood that was on Orem property and I understood that they were building that, but I was really pleased to see Vineyard 00:51:41
City trucks. 00:51:47
And engagement obviously in the in the building and the Memorial Day. And I think it's really important because. 00:51:52
These are our children and as a as a driver, myself and I'll. 00:52:01
I'll tell everybody on put it on record. I was pulled over today because I I stopped for something in the crosswalk, but I didn't 00:52:07
wait until I left the crosswalk to drive forward and I was pulled over and given a warning. 00:52:12
And as somebody who looks at that bench every day driving home, I, I failed. And so I think that's really important and protecting 00:52:18
our children is. 00:52:25
It's it's just such a tragedy that she had to lose her life though. So that being said, I do want to mention how grateful I am for 00:52:33
the city and the council and youth manner for thinking about the future and protecting our way of life in Vineyard. 00:52:41
And. 00:52:50
As it relates to as the city is growing exponentially and, and I'm really glad to see agenda items to change how the council and 00:52:52
the mayor work together. And I just would like to publicly state that I would really encourage you guys to not think about the 00:52:59
status quo in the relationships that you have right now, but think about as we change our our form of government, what is what our 00:53:07
government is going to need in five to 10 years from now. So that's my comment and I appreciate this time. 00:53:14
Thank you. 00:53:24
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:53:32
I'd like to also commend our city staff, NASIM and Cash Yancy. 00:53:36
For taking care of that terrible graffiti and it's just, it's just sad and just grateful that it was taken care of immediately. 00:53:42
That was wonderful. Also, that bench is really cool looking. I rode my bike by it. I really liked it. I just have a couple 00:53:49
questions. What is the date for the next public hearing about the change of government? I know that we're having our first public 00:53:56
hearing tonight. I would like to know what the next date for that, for the next public hearing is. 00:54:03
And also. 00:54:11
Our ex development gentleman mentioned parking. I have a concern about the lakefront parking that we were going to talk about 00:54:13
what's going to happen. 00:54:18
From the month November through March when cars are supposed to be off the road for snow removal, if that parking is going to be 00:54:25
allowed for overnight parking on 3rd West, what will happen to those cars during that time period for snow removal? Thank you. 00:54:33
Thank you. 00:54:43
I am Mike Cox, Vineyard resident. 00:54:52
I wanted to just stand out and publicly say how much I love being a Vineyard over the 4th of July and I love being in Utah County 00:54:57
over the 4th of July. It means a lot to me what goes on. 00:55:04
I would like to say that I got involved with what's going on at Vineyard about three years ago. 00:55:14
When my wife and I both felt like. 00:55:24
So we didn't get honesty from our mayor about parking situation. We have to buy parking passes to park in front of our house and. 00:55:27
At first we were told that we could get to, but then when the final thing came down, we voted against it because it was only one 00:55:42
and we needed more than one. 00:55:46
Anyway I. 00:55:51
I have the amazing opportunity, um. 00:55:54
During March and April. 00:55:57
To go door to door and vineyard and umm. 00:56:01
There's one most profound experiences in my life. I knew that I lived among amazing people, but after. 00:56:06
Spending over a month knocking on doors and Vineyard, I was truly moved by house caring and how wonderful and how amazing the 00:56:15
people are here in Vineyard. But I want to say. 00:56:22
That and I can give you all the exact dates and names, the addresses. 00:56:31
Everything I talked to. 00:56:38
786 households in Vineyard. 00:56:40
OK. 00:56:45
And. 00:56:47
Of those 786, I told them that I joined a group that was against what the mayor was doing and against what the City Council had 00:56:49
been doing, and we helped to get two people on City Council. I told them that and. 00:56:56
Out of 786 doors, roofs, households, I found one person who was in favor of our mayor. 00:57:04
And that person happened to be on the Planning Commission. 00:57:14
So I started out talking to these people because I got involved because parking was a disaster. OK, so I want to tell everyone 00:57:17
here, everyone here, 785 to one. 00:57:24
That's how we feel about what's going on with the developers and with high density and with parking. 00:57:32
Comes in here and asks for less parking and you give it to them. 00:57:42
And there's problems in every single every single high density place and vineyard. Everyone has a problem. 00:57:47
So this is the tidal wave that's coming for all of you, 785 to one. Thank you very much. 00:57:55
If you are looking to make a comment, can you raise your hands or public comment? 00:58:12
All right, this is going to be the final comment. 00:58:17
I want to commend the mayor and the council on being diligent and wanting to. 00:58:22
David Larae, resident. 00:58:26
Anyway, welcome to mayor and the council on on being diligent about making sure we move forward the city business and so forth. 00:58:29
And sorry, I understand that that was the reason behind selling these limits on public comment. I would, however, also like to 2nd 00:58:36
Karen Cornetti's comments about transparency. It's a very important thing to have a trust between the citizenry and their 00:58:44
government and I just have to say that. 00:58:51
This limiting that you've been doing, I know it's a million times just to move things along, but the effect is to cause a lot of 00:58:59
great distrust amongst the citizenry. And I'd, I'd ask you if you would please to reconsider that and perhaps find another way to 00:59:04
move things along, but still allow people to be able to speak their mind and give you information they want to give. Thank you. 00:59:10
Thanks. 00:59:16
OK. We'll go ahead and move on to our next item, which is our consent items. Can I get a motion? 00:59:23
I move to approve the consent items as presented first by Amber. Can I get a second? 00:59:38
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 00:59:43
All right, hey, I have a question. Why is it #5 the report and we just skipped to seven one. You just do that in the meeting. I'm 00:59:48
moving those down. Yeah. Why don't we organize this before the meetings so people know the order? Sometimes I do. I just been 00:59:56
making a judgement call to get to some important public hearings tonight. All right, 9.1 discussing an action. This is the parking 01:00:04
permit program resolution 2024-17 and our senior planner cash hand people present. 01:00:11
Thank you, Mayor, I'll be presenting in his place. 01:00:23
Was unable to come tonight. So I'm Morgan Brand, the Community Development Director. And so tonight we're looking at a resolution 01:00:26
which would provide allowance for overnight parking on 300 W and on Loop Rd. which is that perpendicular Rd. that connects in at 01:00:32
that location. 01:00:38
It would limit it to one parking permit per household. 01:00:45
The resolution would provide 5 parking permits to the lakefront at Town Center HOA that they could provide to their residents for 01:00:51
temporary guest parking. 01:00:57
The permit would be provided to city residents on a first come, first serve basis. 01:01:04
It does have a requirement in there for the clubhouse parking which I believe is 29 stalls. 01:01:11
To be opened for their residents to park overnight. 01:01:18
And so we felt that was important that there was some on site parking. 01:01:24
It would provide. 01:01:29
It would limit 12 of the parking stalls. 01:01:32
On 300 W that would not be allowed for overnight parking so that we can preserve that. So on a Saturday morning, folks go into the 01:01:37
lake would still have that, have access to some of those stalls. 01:01:43
The so we will provide up to 70 or 87 street parking stalls for overnight parking. If the if the H way would like more than that, 01:01:52
then it would require the kind of the first remedy to provide those and to build more parking on site up to 25 stalls before we we 01:02:01
would provide more more on site parking. 01:02:09
I think that pretty much sums up that kind of kind of the main points of the resolution. Do you know if our permitting ordinance 01:02:20
touches a snow removal or if we just defer to our snow removal ordinance? Yeah, that we, so we, we have the the winter. 01:02:30
Parking restriction when it's punished, forms coming in. 01:02:41
Yeah, yeah, it'd have been applied to all and that's just for citywide parking in general. Everybody can park on the street and 01:02:45
then everybody has to move solutions. So it would be, it would require that from everyone. OK, great. Thank you for all of your 01:02:52
work on this and thanks for bringing it back to us. Are there questions from the council or any comments? No, thank you, Sarah. I 01:02:58
think we did have a, we did have a. 01:03:05
Apologize for putting that up. So we would like to have at least the program in place in August so we can start issuing permits. 01:03:46
But most likely we would wait till, I believe, September. We would advertise and let people know so that if there are folks that 01:03:53
have been parking out there, then they'd be able to make adjustments before getting towed or booted. Perfect. OK Marty, did you 01:03:59
have anything to add? I know you said it on a lot of these meetings. 01:04:06
I just want to read what Amber said. I feel like Sarah's done a really good job working with the HOA. I was able to sit in on a 01:04:14
meeting and I think from my understanding there was some good compromises made and I really appreciate the work you put into. 01:04:22
Excellent. OK, then I need a motion. I just want to make a comment. I think I think this is a very good step. 01:04:29
Important, but I think there's some rules or different things. 01:04:39
That I wish there were some adjustments to, but it like is a step in the right direction and what the current vote stands it, it's 01:04:44
my understanding that we're going to be doing a parking permit in the city and they're going to be paying us right. And what's the 01:04:48
total dollar amount? 01:04:53
Yeah, it's 60, but but it's, it's prorated. And so every month it goes, it goes down a little bit. And so that's yeah, so it's not 01:05:00
so cuz we've had residents that you're like, well, why do we have to pay the full amount? It's November, we're only getting the 01:05:06
benefit for two months and so. 01:05:12
Yeah, it it's 60 for the full year, and then it drops at least $5.00 a month a month. You know, I remember being here when that 01:05:20
development had hundreds of people protesting the parking problem. 01:05:27
Or the amount of empty parking stalls and just screaming and saying hey, there needs to be more. And I just think that's why I go 01:05:35
back to empty parking as people live differently than what a designer thought. And I hate that now the city is profiting, you 01:05:42
know, the $60.00. And I wish in the future if we had the votes to not have to charge that. But I do support the medium ground and 01:05:49
I think this is a good step in the right direction. I just wish that it would be more aggressive but. 01:05:57
It's the it's the movement that we got, but I would definitely campaign or push for more of. 01:06:05
Just open it up and let him park. But I know I don't. We don't have the votes for that. 01:06:13
In regards to your statement, it was not just the City Council that thought opening up is completely free was. 01:06:18
The best decision, so just to clarify, I wanted to understand your statement. Were you saying you want to do passes, that you want 01:06:27
the passes free or you passes it all in the future? I think the passes should have been done by the HOA and not the city or I 01:06:34
believe that the HOA should be able to control that themselves and not so just to clarify as well. 01:06:42
It is A to do that. It would be a public private partnership that you said you don't like in the past. So I'm just wondering. 01:06:52
If that affects your thought on that at all, no, it doesn't affect it. 01:06:58
It doesn't mean it's a public Rd. So it could take that, but it's, it's not a, it's a compromise that's positive and moves it in 01:07:02
the right direction. That was my understanding is that because it's a city road, then the city takes responsibility for the 01:07:10
upkeep. And so that's, that's why it felt like a little bit of a fair exchange for them. But I feel like they've been very fair on 01:07:18
their pricing and, and we've talked to about during the holiday season, just not patrolling at all, like giving, giving leeway. 01:07:26
Where we can give leeway, I think is good. And and it's opened up to to anyone who needs one. We have found that that there was 01:07:34
needed parking from the locks and from the preserve that also will be allowed to park there. And I don't know, I'd rather pay 01:07:42
$60.00 a year than a $300.00 towing bill. So the goal is we're part of the transition. Yeah, we're park. Yeah, right. It gets them 01:07:49
a lot closer to their home. So I feel like this is this is a good compromise and the HOA is happy with it and it'll, it'll. 01:07:57
Can I add one more thing? Sure. 01:08:05
Umm, I just think what you're suggesting is dangerous because umm, I read AI read a book about parking and it was really fun. But 01:08:07
in this book it actually talked about how the city of Chicago let private companies manage their parking and they were able to 01:08:15
charge whatever they wanted and it actually became a huge issue. So I do understand your desire. I think it's a righteous cause 01:08:22
trying to get the city out of parking restrictions and whatnot. 01:08:30
And it's great to have private. 01:08:37
I think public private partnerships sometimes are great, but I think that the decision that Sarah and the Council are coming to is 01:08:41
actually very healthy, good set of boundaries. And so I want to I guess again say how much I've appreciated Sarah work and I think 01:08:47
that we've come to a good compromise. 01:08:54
Yeah, I I would only note that there's a difference between a company and an HOA. An HOA serves its members just like a citizen. I 01:09:01
mean, it's not there to profit and make money. An HOA administrative company that administers the HOA is, but not the HOA. I think 01:09:07
a lot of people would disagree with you, though. Sometimes there's HOA that start to go up to. 01:09:13
Bringing this ordinance back that came back last year. 01:09:50
And then once we implement the program, I think the plan will be for us to do some enforcement for the first month or two as as 01:10:35
Sheriff's Office and then we'll turn it over to the children. So I also think it's important as we've gone through this process 01:10:41
for the last seven years, we've been going to different Hoas and saying, reassessing and saying what are the growth needs, 01:10:48
changing their green space, having them enforce their CCNR is going through their permitting process, making sure that they have 01:10:54
something so that they can make sure that. 01:11:00
With that, did we make a motion? Let me just add two more comments, which is. 01:11:38
We're going to just allow the mayor to make the decision and adjust when needed of like here I am or I'm not going to set up 01:14:24
policy. If it was conveyed to the city manager and he conveyed that to me, we could convey that to the token without a vote. I 01:14:29
like that that we can just. 01:14:34
All right, it looks like we are at the point of motion. I move to adopt resolution 20/24/17 Parking permit program for 300 W as 01:14:40
presented. 01:14:45
Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second, second, second by Sarah? Let's see. We'll go ahead and do this by roll call. 01:14:51
Sarah yes. 01:14:59
Marty Aye, aye, Amber, aye, yes. With the hope to get better. All right, let's go to 9.2. This is a public hearing proposal to 01:15:02
consider a change in government. This is the first of two public hearings to receive public comment on a proposal to change the 01:15:09
form of government from A5 to A6 member Council. No action will be taken on this. This is just a time for you to come and share 01:15:17
your opinions on it. So we're going to open the public hearing and hear your comments. 01:15:24
Can I have a motion to go into a public hearing? 01:15:32
So moved all right first by Amber. Can I get a second? 01:15:35
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 01:15:40
All right, we're now in a public hearing. 01:15:46
Please come to the microphone and state your name and where you're from and any comments that you would like to give us on this 01:15:51
form of government. 01:15:54
Hi, David Lane resident. 01:16:02
This is that examined the various forms of government available to us. It appears that this one is changed from A5 member council 01:16:06
to six member council. It's probably the the smallest possible change that we could have a that we could have come up with. It 01:16:13
really doesn't address many of the issues that we're having. And so it seems to me that I understand well back up, I understand 01:16:21
that our three attorneys is most in favor of this as opposed to a council mayor forum. 01:16:28
The issue here is that. 01:16:36
And so I think and also it also separates out powers and provides checks and balances aren't available in the other forms. And I 01:17:16
think that that would be as very valuable. It provides a clear delineation on on, on who does what as far as executive goes and 01:17:22
the legislative as well. 01:17:28
We have a great tradition of. 01:17:35
Of adversarial discussion and backyard. Our whole judicial system is built upon that principle. 01:17:40
We have a prosecutor, we have a defense attorney and they argue and. 01:17:46
We have a judge, this is a referee and we have a, you know, a committee of our peers that makes the final decision as a jury. But 01:17:52
we, but the point is, is we, we have a great tradition of, of systems that allow us to be able to express different points of view 01:17:59
and, and work together to come to a compromise. And sometimes those aren't, you know, those aren't friendly, overly friendly 01:18:06
appearing things. But in the end, they, they, they allow everything to be discussed. 01:18:13
Everything to be aired and it becomes a much better solution, so I would ask if I would ask the Council if they would please. 01:18:21
To reconsider that measure and to actually adopt A council, mayor form of government, I think it's much more efficient. It's much 01:18:28
more keeping our traditions in America. I think it's much more, it has many more pros and cons. And I think it'd be worth our 01:18:34
while. If we're going to take the time to make this change and spend the money to make it. We I think we should do it right. I 01:18:40
think that's the best way forward. Thank you. 01:18:46
Thank you. 01:18:53
Claudia Larae Resident I just have a question for the Council. What is the opposition? 01:19:11
To having a six member council. 01:19:19
You mean a city, county? This is not going to be a time for discourse, but we can hear your comment right now. And then we could 01:19:25
be prepared with questions for, I mean we could be prepared with answers for the the second public hearing. 01:19:31
I mean answers. I do have a question of clarification. Are we discussing this at all after our public hearing? Are you saying 01:19:40
we're not? We are not at all. 01:19:44
For another, OK, but we will be able to bring forth your, I mean anything that we can find to answer those questions for the 01:19:49
second publisher, well, just personally. 01:19:55
And this is not. 01:20:01
This is as a citizen to the city government. 01:20:03
I I have. 01:20:09
Given public comment. 01:20:14
That has been given with a majority of people that has been ignored in the final analysis. So why? And I think that is one thing 01:20:17
that has led to this distrust. And I'm I'm really trying to follow the rules here and say the right things and but it seems like 01:20:27
my my concerns fall on deaf ears. And so it seems like. 01:20:38
A useless form in the form that it's in, something has to change. So I would like to agree that we need a change of government. 01:20:49
Thanks. Thank you. 01:21:03
Sorry, I'm doing a junior resident. 01:21:10
I disagree with what David said. I think it makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to clear something up. It doesn't have anything to 01:21:16
do with anyone sitting on this council because this is something that, should we take the time and the money and the energy to 01:21:24
work on would hopefully remain through council after council, mayor after mayor. So this is not targeted at anyone. This is 01:21:32
actually just a better way to represent the people and to have a representative government like this country. 01:21:40
Has has been. 01:21:49
Had for the last 200 plus years. So I just I want to make that clear that it has nothing to do with anyone that sits in front of 01:21:51
us. It has to do with having the guardrails up for years to come. So thank you. Can you stay for a second? Karen raised her hand 01:21:58
in agreement with the council mayor form. I just wanted that to be clear so that a comment was understood. 01:22:04
I want to speak to the issue. The choice shouldn't be the smallest change. Will you state your name? I'm sorry, David Pierce. I 01:22:24
live in the Cascade neighborhood. 01:22:29
We all know each other, so it's hard. 01:22:35
When we make a change in the form of government, it shouldn't be just the smallest change, it should be the change for the most 01:22:40
effective form of government for the city. 01:22:46
And I want to speak to the six member City Council. 01:22:52
Contrary to belief, it will, and it does facilitate closer cooperation between elected officials to effectively conduct the city's 01:22:57
business. 01:23:02
It is recognized as a better form of municipal government. 01:23:09
This structure was chosen by multiple cities locally as the most effective structure for their city government, Cities, by the 01:23:15
way, that have been mentioned in earlier City Council meetings here because of their effectiveness and efficiency and city 01:23:21
involvement. 01:23:26
It does protect the separation of power and the spheres of responsibility for the various elected officials and six member City 01:23:37
Council does bring government closer to the people. 01:23:45
Just a very true and a very simple example of what the five member City Council. 01:23:54
And given a population of about 20,000. 01:24:01
That means each City Council member would represent 4000 people. 01:24:06
But a six person City Council? 01:24:11
Council members would represent populations 3300 each. 01:24:14
It does bring government closer to the people. 01:24:20
Changes in city government should be forward-looking and not rearward looking. 01:24:26
And I want to point out one other thing. 01:24:35
That a city is not a state or the federal government a city in our American political system. 01:24:39
Is a subordinate entity of a state government. As such, the state legislators, in recognition of that, have given cities an option 01:24:50
to choose their form of government. 01:24:57
Based. 01:25:04
On the principles first principles of American government. On representative government. 01:25:07
Thank you. 01:25:13
Thank you. 01:25:15
Elizabeth Holdaway resident. 01:25:26
I I live in my grandparents or Ryan's grandparents home and there's a lot of legacy around me. 01:26:01
Thank you. 01:26:41
Mike Cox entered resident. I just want to. 01:26:47
Say that I agree with Elizabeth and Karen and David and umm. 01:26:51
The council mayor with either five or seven. 01:26:55
Councilman is, is in my opinion, far better than the six whenever council thing I, you know, with six people on the council, you 01:26:59
could if if all six people were there, you could have a three, three tie and that's you know. 01:27:07
Spinning your wheels so I just. 01:27:15
I just think that the council mayor makes a lot more sense. 01:27:19
Do you want to clarify? 01:27:26
It's called 6 member council. You only have five members of the council. 01:27:29
Who who vote on but the mayor is not voting. The mayor only votes on certain appointments and and discrete issues. 01:27:34
No, it never would be the mayor's. The typo. 01:27:43
Continue Any other comments? 01:27:46
But also Jamie, anything that relies on her authority, right? 01:27:50
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what you mean the mayors like. 01:27:56
All right, any other further comment? 01:28:36
All right. If not we will. The question I have is we're holding another public hearing. So I close this public hearing and then we 01:28:39
go into it or I continue it. You will close this public hearing and then the the next public hearing will be noticed. It's 01:28:45
separate. All right. I need a motion to go out of the public hearing. 01:28:51
So moved. Thank you first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:28:59
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 01:29:03
This brings us to our staff, Commission and committee reports. Do we have anything today? 01:29:09
No. OK, then we'll go to your council. Sarah, did you have anything? 01:29:18
Cash isn't here, but I wanted to say thanks to him for his his work with me. We walked, we walked through the. 01:29:24
The roads leading up to the front runner station and put. 01:29:32
Put Flyers with QR codes on so we could know who needed more parking. And so he was, he was really helpful and. 01:29:36
And I just really appreciate I've, I, I bring up a lot of concerns and I feel like staff has taken them seriously. And even the 01:29:43
fact that you put on about changing the HOA from flagship, I just talked about it a little bit and it was on the agenda. So I 01:29:51
appreciate you guys listening and considering the things that are the things that are brought to you. But anyway. 01:29:59
So there's that and the cleaning up of the graffiti too. I didn't even know that it happened, but I just, I think you guys are 01:30:08
amazing and I I wanna let you know. Thank you. One other thing. 01:30:14
As far as the budget? 01:30:21
We had talked Christie about maybe making some of those line items more specific and. 01:30:24
Working with Kim, she talked about how she does council packets once a month and we talked about that before and if you if you 01:30:32
could do that before we do the final budget, that would be great. 01:30:38
Would you like some clarity? 01:30:49
Or do you understand what? I can talk to you about it later? Yeah, that's great. Eric, did you have something here? 01:30:51
Yeah, I just wanted to weigh in on your first request for reports and just to let them know that the Council know that I will have 01:30:59
a report that will be included in the council package. So it'll be available for the general public, but I'll have that out 01:31:05
sometime later this week. We're just gathering last month's reports from our directors and there's a whole bunch of stuff. And so 01:31:11
it would probably be a little bit burdensome to read it through in in this meeting, but we'll make sure that it's available for 01:31:17
you all. 01:31:23
And the public by putting it in that package. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Amber. 01:31:29
The Community Garden is putting on a healthy cooking class this Thursday at 6:00 at Gannon Park, so stop by if you want to learn 01:31:35
about that and keep your eyes open for being your Cares events. They have expanded. They had an event for 7 to 8 year olds and it 01:31:42
was very well attended and successful, so keep your eye out for some of those events. 01:31:48
And thank you to Arch Commission for their fantastic job on Vineyard days. They did exceptionally well. We had great attendance, 01:31:56
great interact with people, and I really appreciate Element. 01:32:01
As well as that fantastic Independence Day celebration, the best fireworks show I've seen in Vineyard. 01:32:08
Marty. 01:32:16
Actually mine. You can go next, Jake. 01:32:17
I would like an understanding. I got a few calls from a few citizens about the grant that they worked for and was awarded and then 01:32:24
it got pulled and then they called and said I voted or the council voted not to award the grant this year, the 20 or 25,000. And I 01:32:33
was like, I wasn't even aware of I, I thought we So what happened with that grant? 01:32:41
Print specifically the tax, the tax they're going back through the process and you'll see it, it'll come to you. Right, But why 01:32:50
was it put out? Everyone put the process in and then stopped. I'd just like to the scope wasn't fully done and so they are putting 01:32:56
the scope back in. 01:33:02
But it went out on the street and everyone submitted and then we backed out of it. We didn't back out of it though it the process 01:33:08
is just continuing. We just recognized that some of the stuff from the statute wasn't put in. So we want to do it properly. So we 01:33:16
had people submit for it. They submitted their their responses. There was a committee that was held. And then after the responses 01:33:23
came back, those were presented. And then we decided, hey, the statute isn't good, so we're going to. 01:33:30
Undo that right? Not that the statue wasn't good, it was that it wasn't upheld. And so. 01:33:38
They'll continue their process and then you'll see it. So why was that decision made without? I mean, they called me and said the 01:33:44
council had made a decision and I. 01:33:48
The council hasn't made a decision. It hasn't come to the table yet. So how did how did it go to start the decision and go through 01:33:54
it and then like you said, now reevaluate and pull back if I don't know the because as we were looking at the agenda item, we 01:33:59
recognized that the scope wasn't met and so they needed to complete the process for the council to appropriately get a 01:34:05
recommendation Who makes that decision that. 01:34:10
That the scope was or was not met? And were other council members a part of that? Like who goes through that? So I didn't allow it 01:34:16
to come to the agenda because it's not complete yet. And I reviewed the scope of the Arts Commission and I looked at it and sent 01:34:21
it back to them. 01:34:25
There's no way that if I'd be happy to, I'd be happy to talk to you more about it. I just wanted to a point of order with Jamie. 01:36:09
If we set forth the guidelines for how a grant could be awarded and then we don't like it those guidelines, wouldn't we see the 01:36:16
guidelines as a council to be able to put those into code? Is that really like both? Both of those are an executive function. 01:36:24
There's a lot of people that put in for that grant that are frustrated that and I'm like I. 01:36:32
We're not even. 01:36:39
There is only one applicant on the grant that is coming back and talking about this. You approved the other items in the budget. 01:36:42
Yeah, I know, but it's not about not liking the process, it's that they didn't follow the process. 01:36:52
So I'm executing upon the process that the Council has already put in. 01:37:00
We can talk about this more often. Is there another one that you wanted to bring to council? Yeah. The other thing is just 01:37:05
process. And I just want to document this and I apologize for the last meeting on the budget. My grandmother passed away the day 01:37:11
prior and so I probably wasn't as fuzzy, but. 01:37:17
As things passed and the vote passed, I just want to go through my experience of the past six months on the budget and preparing 01:37:24
for it. 01:37:28
Because I, I don't, I didn't like anything of the process and I know I'm in the minority, but obviously in being put in in 01:37:33
December and getting up and running, wanting to meet and understanding with all of the council members and saying what are your 01:37:39
priorities or what are not your priorities? 01:37:46
You know, we we put off and we said we're going to do that during the off site. We already mentioned that the off site wasn't 01:37:54
successful and I felt like we lost an opportunity when. 01:37:59
You know, you gave the, you know, address of the city and then left that day where we couldn't go and say, OK, what are we going 01:38:05
to accomplish? And then we came back and we said, hey, let's sync for another hour. And I thought that one hour meeting where we 01:38:11
got together and said, hey, here are some priorities. Was was a good was a good first start. But then, you know, I held out to try 01:38:17
to get. 01:38:23
A quorum where we could do this in a public way. 01:38:30
Very early on in in March and April and May and it was always let's go in and meet with Christy and Eric one-on-one. And it was, 01:38:34
you know, I know that Christy and Eric put that put the line items from the various departments, but it's more of us as a council 01:38:42
having a great culture and character of coming together and speaking about what our priorities and and that just that just didn't 01:38:49
happen. And so I, I, I feel like I, you know, in in trying to pull it to. 01:38:57
Move this into a public forum and move that process so that I could develop trust with you guys because I really do. I want, I 01:39:04
want the council to know that I'm trying to develop trust. And one of the things I spoke with Jamie about on the phone today was 01:39:10
one of the things that we can do to develop trust is. 01:39:15
Maybe doing things in the public, maybe things being written down, maybe walking away, having more people there so that we know 01:39:21
that what we say is done. You know, I know I reached out to all of you saying, Hey, could we do this in a, in a public way and, 01:39:29
and have a quorum and, and those were denied and I was offered just go meet with Eric and Christy. And so finally, you know, 01:39:36
holding out saying we're not going to do this in a, in a, in a way in which I view is, is, is doing this in a better way. 01:39:44
We went in and met and Kim went about 24 hours before or sorry, 48 hours before. And you know, Kim and I had worked very hard line 01:39:52
item. There were a lot of things that like miscellaneous that were that we need to ask exactly what that is. And I really 01:39:59
appreciate Kim going in and saying, OK, what is that? And can that be written down and make make sure that that what what you're 01:40:06
telling me it is? It's just not. 01:40:14
Us in a quiet meeting, me, Eric and Christy and us. But it is actually in the budget, because I don't know if you know state law, 01:40:22
but it's not in the budget, then it doesn't exist. It's just a conversation. 01:40:27
And so one of the biggest things was, is this written down these light items and to come back the day before and see a high level 01:40:32
and many of those light items, they're just not there, which means that that if it's just a high level 75,000 and we broke it down 01:40:39
earlier with Eric and Christy and they said, well, we're thinking this, we're thinking this, we're thinking this, those are just 01:40:46
words and there's nothing accountable on those to hold them accountable to what they said in a quiet meeting. And I don't like 01:40:52
that. 01:40:59
We came back and we said the night before, 24 hours before, can we get this budget? And one of the other things that struggled 01:41:06
with was, and I know Christie's doing a fantastic job. This is not on Christy or the staff they are doing. 01:41:14
But we're so late in the game because we put this off for months. 01:41:22
But one of the things that came up with was you're working off an old budget when we asked, well, how many times has it changed? 01:41:26
Will it change daily? OK, well, we weren't notified of all of these changes, right? And so that was problematic. But coming in 24 01:41:33
hours before we get the budget and I believe we were 400,000 and it went up to 1.2. 01:41:41
And I called Kim and I go, wow, these numbers are dramatically different than what we did the day before. And also as a City 01:41:49
Council member, I emailed that out to as many citizens as I can. I say, guys, I got this 24 hours earlier. Can you look through 01:41:56
this? And I look at it and there's not the detailed of is this, you know, there's still these high level miscellaneous travel 01:42:04
meetings and there's a lot of things missing. And so we go through and vote and all I have is my vote, right? So. 01:42:12
And so. 01:42:51
That that stops our ability. And so I just want to say and apologize that I fought for that process. And even with 24 hours of the 01:42:54
people that didn't vote for me, I couldn't even get it out there to say, hey, advocate for or against. And we could have done this 01:43:01
in March. And I know you guys don't want to meet in that way or that culture, but I just want you to know that I'm not a mean 01:43:07
person. 01:43:13
In that and that was my vote and that was the reason for it. So that was my comment. OK. The next thing is I wanna discuss my 01:43:20
question about the city manager's compensation and total compensation. And in the meeting I asked specifically because then again, 01:43:28
we were working with various numbers. But I just want the record to know that one of the questions I asked was, is the city 01:43:35
manager's department or manager being compensated differently in previous years? Ezra. 01:43:43
Our city manager was being compensated with a total salary and benefits of 160,000. 01:43:51
He was also doing the RDA director compensation, correct? And he didn't have an assistant. And so his total compensation to do all 01:43:57
of his job from one year to the next was $160,000. In this current budget. And I might not have answered it the right way in last 01:44:06
meeting, but I want the record to show that the new city manager's compensation is not 160 with benefits. It's two O 6. 01:44:14
So there's 47 thousand more in just compensation. We now have to hire a separate RDA director to do that position. That's an 01:44:23
additional 50,000, that's $97,000 more. We also have an assistant will take third a part, that's the deputy clerk. That third of 01:44:31
their responsibilities will kicked over for an additional 26,000. So the total compensation is 283,000 as opposed to what it was a 01:44:39
year before 160,000. 01:44:46
And so there is a difference of $123,000 just in that one compensation. And I asked about that and it should have been more clear 01:44:55
in the record. And it's not to attack him or anything, but it's the right to know of what is different from one year to the next. 01:45:02
And so I just wanted to make that it's not an attack personally, but it's just making the citizens know. And the second thing is. 01:45:10
On transparency now that it is set. 01:45:19
And so I hope to have something back that I could. And I know maybe there aren't the votes for this because I already voted, but I 01:45:53
would like to share A to show the citizens that we've tried to do everything we can. 01:45:58
And your due diligence on that? 01:46:04
And then the last thing I have is um. 01:46:07
You know, I'm, I'm really trying to develop a better relationship with the mayor and Eric. 01:46:11
And I believe, like I said earlier with the UMM. 01:46:17
With the budget. 01:46:24
That if there is a conflict of opinions of what happened in a closed door meeting, the best way to overcome that is sunlight and 01:46:26
transparency and to bring people in that we trust. And maybe after months of meeting we can develop a trust where we can work 01:46:32
together. Because I believe the citizens want us to work together. And so I believe that we have a weekly meeting, me and you, 01:46:38
where we can meet me and you and go over the agenda. If I look at anything and I need it, then I can pick you up on that meeting 01:46:44
and ask some questions. 01:46:50
But I also have the ability of scheduling my own meetings to meet with department heads or with Eric as needed on parking or 01:46:57
anything like that. And I've requested that me and Sarah, whether it be or any of you, I'd love either of you guys to be. Hey, me 01:47:05
and a council member would like to meet with Eric. And currently there's been some confusion on if I can and cannot hold a meeting 01:47:14
with Eric and another City Council member because. 01:47:23
Right now it's it's under the decision that I cannot hold a meeting with me and Eric and another council member. 01:47:31
Because it might so happen to be that the mayor might want to attend the meeting, which I love, if the mayor would want to attend 01:47:38
that meeting that I'm calling. But then it would necessitate a public meeting, which would be awesome because you know me, I would 01:47:44
rather do it that way. But in the event that the mayor doesn't want to do that, I just want to make clear that I can meet with 01:47:49
Eric. 01:47:54
And another council member by statute so that I can look into whatever department or what ask any questions that we not I'm not I, 01:48:00
I just don't feel like the last three months of being denied. Jacob can't meet with you with another person. It has to be just me 01:48:05
and you. 01:48:10
So I just like that clarified tonight so that we can see if we can move forward. And I want Eric and the mayor to know that I'm 01:48:17
trying my best and I do. I do hold out because I like people to see what I do and I don't like to meet just by myself. 01:48:25
All right. Thank you. Do you have any other comments or are you done? 01:48:36
Your last, that was my conversation. That was my question. Alright. And to Jamie, I will go and then Marty can go and then we'll 01:48:39
close the meeting. All right, just to address Eric's compensation really quick, I wanted to talk about the fact that Ezra did have 01:48:48
an executive assistant that had a total pay of $102,000, a hundred and 2900 and $99196. Additionally, we had an RDA director who's 01:48:56
a consultant that was paid the exact same as our current consultant hourly. 01:49:04
So I think that we can share these numbers with you to help you better understand additionally. 01:49:13
And now it's my turn. But additionally, the RDA Esther did not do the finance director job nor did he do the RDA director job. 01:49:19
These were separate. And so understanding that I think is key and critical and no way are these things hidden. When we hire 01:49:26
people, we hire them in the public. Compensation of each position is is brought to the public. And so it's a very transparent 01:49:34
process I would say. 01:49:41
My response to the budget is that. 01:49:49
I'm really grateful to hear that you would like to meet with me because and that you want to bring in people and that you want to 01:49:53
bring in people to meet and talk about the budget. During the time that we went through this budget process, we met six times 01:50:01
publicly as a group to talk about things. And each time we have the ability to go through and and discuss our goals and our needs. 01:50:09
And we also pleaded with the council, including yourself, to make sure that you were coming to your your weekly budget meeting. 01:50:17
You were invited to attend to, to work with the council, to work with me, to sit down with the finance director, Eric. We offered 01:50:25
to meet with a full group and in the last council meeting I felt like I was very clear. We really needed you to be there and I was 01:50:32
so grateful to see you come and bring people with you. I think that we have a good process and if we all attend our meetings it 01:50:38
could be a great process. 01:50:44
I feel like let's see. 01:50:52
Hold on, please. At the beginning of the meeting, the meeting was set for an hour and you went past an hour. I had another meeting 01:50:55
I had to attend, and so I'm sorry that I couldn't stay for the whole thing, but it was set for an hour and I stayed the entire 01:51:01
hour. OK, So the other thing is the way that our budget works and our Financial Policy is that the council does vote on it and we 01:51:07
can read through the Financial Policy. It was described to the public. You had actually mentioned it about how these things are 01:51:13
itemized. 01:51:18
And the City Council was able to talk about that. I'm going to forego the rest of my announcements today and turn the time over to 01:51:56
Marty and then we will adjourn. 01:52:01
Are you gonna answer my question? 01:52:08
What I'm saying on the legislative side, go ahead answer this so we can get it. And I've and I've described it with Jamie over the 01:52:43
phone today. 01:52:47
Jake and I already met on this today, so he's aware of the contours of the law on this. 01:52:52
There are two items of statute that are that come to bear here. One is the Open and Public Meetings Act and that prohibits a 01:53:01
quorum from meeting without it being a public meeting. That would require 24 hours notice and. 01:53:08
And that the public be allowed to participate like this meeting. 01:53:17
Here today, if Jake wants to hold informal meetings with the city manager, he may do it. If he and the mayor are present at the 01:53:21
meeting, then you can't have a third council member present or it would violate the Open and Public Meetings Act. So I think 01:53:29
that's the question of if the mayor's president and council member holdaway as president, then that's the most council members you 01:53:36
could have present without moving it to a public meeting. 01:53:44
You can shuffle participation however you'd like, as long as it's two or fewer. 01:53:52
That are at the meeting. The other aspect of this that is important is that by statute, the mayor of a city, regardless of the 01:53:58
form of government. 01:54:03
Is the chief executive officer of the city to home all employees report. And so if the mayor wishes to be at a meeting with the 01:54:08
city manager, that is her right as the chief executive officer. 01:54:15
And, and I want the citizens to understand what that means is that if I call and say, hey, me and Sarah or me and Amber or me and 01:54:23
Marty want to go and meet about a particular problem, the mayor is able to block me from meeting the two of us with Eric to go 01:54:29
over. She holds the right to to do that. 01:54:35
My meetings that I'm trying to hold. 01:54:42
Not the mayors meetings. So I can I can answer this a little. Sure. And why and why can't answer to it. Yeah, but let me make. So 01:54:46
I'm going to turn the time over to her. Can you answer it briefly and then follow your report. I think it's a really hard awkward 01:54:54
conversation safe. I understand what your desire is and I can see why you want a little bit of an adjustment. I will say that this 01:55:02
is a part, a big part of the form of government change that I'm looking for with. 01:55:10
I can report that I've been working on the form of government. 01:55:18
Yes, I did want to clarify that Jamie said that every form of government is the same. On this particular. I will say that with 01:55:21
this execution council, you can have two council members and the mayor meeting together, which is a huge benefit for one of the 01:55:29
issues our council is having. Also in a council mayor forum, the mayor could withhold any of the staff from you meeting with any 01:55:37
of them. So this is my turn. So what I'm trying to say is I validate your frustration. I validate your concern. 01:55:45
We do have to. 01:55:54
Be within the law with the Open Public Meetings Act. 01:55:57
I won't go much further into the form of government change, but I do hope you understand that part of why I've put so much work 01:56:02
into this is because a lot of your concerns, even though I had my own concerns before you joined us here on the council, which 01:56:08
motivated my changes which I have been working on for the past few weeks. I've been working really hard, talking to different 01:56:14
cities, talking to different people throughout the city, getting information, and I look forward to the next time that I'm allowed 01:56:20
to publicly speak on this. 01:56:27
Because I have a lot of thoughts in response to the public comments, if any citizens want to contact me personally, I would love 01:56:33
to answer any questions or discuss with them. 01:56:38
I do see a need for chains and I do see the benefits of the different types that are available. 01:56:45
And I'm looking forward to our next public hearing on that. 01:56:52
I do have a couple things. 01:56:55
I've just in the past few weeks it's been not as many meetings as usual, but I did get to meet with the economic development 01:56:58
meeting for Huntsman and Flagborough and that was very, it was great to touch bases. Huntsman is really excited to come be a part 01:57:04
of our city and I believe they will be a huge benefit. 01:57:10
I want to thank the city staff and specifically Eric for his Aunt Anna more specifically. 01:57:18
But for the work that all the staff did in the July 1st event. 01:57:27
There there was just such wonderful feedback from the community on that event and I know that Eric and Anna did a lot to make that 01:57:32
happen. So thank you so much. Also, I want to thank Maria publicly. I had a citizen call and let me know that there was a 01:57:38
complaint that she had about. 01:57:44
Code enforcement and Maria was very commutative and got her results very quickly. 01:57:52
So I want to thank specifically Maria and thank Naseem on that same issue. 01:57:59
Also, I want to thank staff for the calendar invites. 01:58:05
Thank you. That's been a big desire of mine to be more informed on the council level so I can know when events are happening or 01:58:09
special meetings, so thank you for getting that to happen. I think that sums up my report. Thank you. This meeting's adjourned. 01:58:17
I think you're kind of the culture. 01:58:27
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
All right. 00:00:04
Oh good, let's follow up after this meeting. 00:00:09
OK, Thank you all for being here tonight. Today is July 10th, 2024 and that's the year and the time is 601 and we're going to 00:00:13
start our Vineyard City Council meeting. Our our Councilwoman Sarah Cameron is going to lead us in a invocation and Pledge of 00:00:21
Allegiance. 00:00:28
My dear Father in heaven, we come before the at the beginning of this Council meeting. 00:00:40
To ask for your guidance and direction and the things that we do and the things that we decide and we pray that that we will have 00:00:45
a spirit of peace and. 00:00:50
Collaboration together. 00:00:56
We ask that we will be mindful to always strive to protect the freedoms that that are provided in our our country through your. 00:00:59
Through your divine protection, we love thee and say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:10
All right. Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:17
All right, that moves us right into our work session. We're going to start with a presentation on the Water's Edge Home 00:01:38
Association. We had some questions from some of our council and we kind of wanted to review how the Water's Edge Homeowners 00:01:45
Association works in relation to the council, and I'm going to let our legal counsel lead out on that. 00:01:52
Jamie, did you want to give us an introduction and then our council can ask any questions they might have? Sure. Thank you, Mayor. 00:01:58
This will be a very general reflection on what HOA's are relative to what city governments are and where how they might overlap. 00:02:07
There may be details about the specific situation in Water's Edge that'll require some additional look or some additional 00:02:14
conversation. But what I understand generally is that some members of the community have approached the city and said, city, can 00:02:21
you take over the HOA? 00:02:28
And the short answer to that is no, cities can't on their own take over HOA's. HOA's are created by private property covenants. 00:02:36
Those covenants are created pursuant to state legislation, but they are private property rights. And when a developer establishes 00:02:43
an HOA or a community establishes an HOA, they do it with the consent of all the land owners within that community, often with HO 00:02:51
as. 00:02:58
Created by a developer. They have a period of time where the developer will control the HOA and then once a certain threshold of 00:03:05
units are sold, it's often between 50 and 75% of units. 00:03:12
The control of the HOA will shift from the developer controlling it to the residents in the community electing their own, or I 00:03:20
shouldn't say residents, the home owners within the community electing their own representatives to the HOA board or the 00:03:25
committee. 00:03:30
Depending on what it's called in the in the different Hoas. So it wouldn't be appropriate for the city to assert itself and assume 00:03:36
control of an HOA. To do so would be to to take away the private property rights that those homeowners enjoy. There are some 00:03:44
things HO as do that look and feel a lot like government. They, they can make assessments, they can enforce their rules and their 00:03:52
requirements within the purview of their governing documents and what they state. 00:04:00
There also is property that Hoas own in common, which means all of the residents of the HOA own those properties together, manage 00:04:08
those properties together. They can hire somebody to do the management, the maintenance and the work on it, but they own it in 00:04:16
common is the legal term. And often cities are asked by Hoas that haven't maintained their common areas appropriately to take on 00:04:24
the maintenance because. 00:04:31
There's no other vehicle or tool to do it, or they simply wish for things like private roads, private parks to no longer be 00:04:40
private roads and private parks, but to be public roads and public parks that are owned and controlled by the city. I'm not aware 00:04:47
of the city making any attempt to try to insert itself into the situation that any particular HOA at the city, but I I know there 00:04:55
have been from time to time requests from residents. 00:05:02
Asking why, why isn't the city doing this? And really the answer is it's because it's common property controlled by the HOA and 00:05:10
it's their responsibility and not the cities. So that's kind of a general rough overview of how property rights work with an HOA 00:05:18
relative to the city. And I'm happy if there are more specific questions to answer those to the best of my ability. We may get to 00:05:26
a point where the answer will have to be, we'd have to pull the private covenants, see what they say. 00:05:34
And then we can determine what the right answer is. But. 00:05:42
With that, excellent. Thank you. Are there any questions by the City Council? 00:05:46
Yeah, I have one because there have been a few of the citizens that have that have asked about. 00:05:52
The ability to have their own, it's Hoas are kind of scattered throughout the city, right. So you have lakefront that has their 00:05:59
own. And so some of the neighborhoods were wondering what it would take to be able to pull out of the main one and establish their 00:06:07
own. So they have more autonomy and decisions in there. Yeah, great question. They would so. 00:06:14
A private attorney could advise them on that. If there were overlap between city issues and their issues, I would not be able to 00:06:23
advise them because I'd be conflicted out, but I could put them in touch with somebody that could help them on that. Where where 00:06:31
you would want to look if you have that kind of question is to pull your, it'll be called your covenants conditions. 00:06:38
And restrictions or CNR, sometimes it will be called the declaration of covenants, conditions and restrictions. And so they'll 00:06:46
call it the declaration for short. But if you have, they used to call them master and servant Hoas, they've gone away from that 00:06:52
because that language is loaded. 00:06:58
A little bit. And so they'll call it a controlling HOA and then subordinate HOA's where you have that situation, the control you'd 00:07:05
you'd have to 1st pull the CCNR for the controlling HOA and then it would have in it provisions for how many votes would be 00:07:13
required to modify the covenants. And if they were to able to assemble enough votes to meet that threshold, then they could modify 00:07:21
the covenants, record those changes. 00:07:28
And either do away with the controlling HOA and, and revert to where they have, you know, the sub HOA, then become the only HOA or 00:07:37
modify it. There will be a lot of moving parts when they do that just because of how they all interrelate and work together. And 00:07:44
they'll have bank accounts and finances and things like that to work through. But you can do it. OK, OK, thank you. Any other 00:07:51
questions? 00:07:58
I think this is a classic example of like if I think if this were on the agenda, the topic and we advertised this like a week 00:08:08
longer, I think we would get more citizen ideas or input on this. But with it 24 hours I don't have any questions is a good 00:08:15
example of like could we, we and we talked about that. 00:08:22
This is a work session, correct? 00:08:31
So we're not voting on anything. 00:08:33
It's like I'm just saying I can't. I've been talking to quite a few of them over the last few months. And so this was kind of my, 00:09:08
yeah, kind of something I've been working on. So I have been talking about them. I didn't realize we were going to talk about it. 00:09:14
Right. I'm just saying like as a rule, we keep talking about information and we can take it back to the timing of, hey, this is a 00:09:22
week out and Jake, I agree with you. So I would like to still see that on the agenda. I don't remember when it's planned and 00:09:28
sooner the better. I think what we're missing and I think what I hopefully can clarify is this. 00:09:35
Where I can't, if it conflicts with my duties to the city, I can refer them to a capable lawyer who can give them an initial 00:10:57
consultancy direction. Excellent, thank you so much. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to 3.2 X Development parking proposal 00:11:04
and Eric Turner with X Development Will. 00:11:11
Introduce this topic to the Council. Come on up. 00:11:19
Eric Downer, Next Development. 00:11:26
Eric Towner X Development. 00:11:31
Is there a way to provide another microphone so that the recording touches it? 00:11:37
That'd be fine. 00:11:43
Can we use the other staff on the longer staff? Yeah. 00:11:48
But not I think it's. 00:11:52
Let's see how that's working. Eric Towner with X Development. Are you catching that, Pam? Perfect. Let's go. OK. Yeah, we are here 00:12:03
to have a discussion, an open discussion in a work session setting. This is not an application for anything. This is to help us 00:12:10
prepare for an application more than anything else. 00:12:17
To get some feedback before we spend more time, more energy, more effort and especially more money into design and development 00:12:25
looking. And I think our development agreement actually requires us to come back and have these discussions generally about a, a 00:12:34
usually a hot button topic within the city is, is parking. So we do have the yard mixed-use which is within the RMU zone. 00:12:43
We've developed almost 40 acres there of commercial property. The remaining 4 acres is has been previously approved for a 00:12:53
mixed-use building. So why we're here today is just to have these discussions so that we can prepare better for an application 00:13:01
which would be what we understood to finalize the the development agreement or to amend the development agreement that we were. We 00:13:08
were required to complete some studies before we could move forward with the project. 00:13:16
So. 00:13:23
December 8, 2021 City Council approved of the mixed-use building. Approximately like 340 units were approved at that time. 00:13:26
Or 350 units or something. We're quite a bit below that with what we've been able to obtain with our architect and how it will fit 00:13:33
with the height requirements and everything that we have in there. We'll get into that in just a second. Wanted to make sure that 00:13:41
you are aware of some of the findings that we have. We have hired third party engineers and so we'll discuss that today. Want to 00:13:49
make sure that our parking proposals that are going to going to be coming forth to a City Council meeting as a. 00:13:56
An amendment to the development agreement still align with the goals of the city and and the recommendations of the third party 00:14:05
engineers and the need that we have to actually develop the building. I wanna confirm that the city's goals are still the same 00:14:10
today. It's been I think almost two years since we had this approval on this property, about a year and a half and we've spent a 00:14:16
significant amount of time and resources and energy into creating what I I think is going to be a potentially a really good 00:14:22
project. 00:14:28
Yeah, discuss the future application that we'll make for an amendment to the development agreement. And then also some things 00:14:35
maybe have changed or have not changed with 400 N and discussed exactly what the goals that the city has for 400 N It would help 00:14:41
us better prepare that that application when we do come with that. 00:14:46
OK, so here's what we've heard in previous meetings tracking the city for the last year and a half since our, our, our approval. 00:14:54
You know, we, we believe that it's an appropriate place for for the mixed-use project. It it seemed like that was the case two 00:15:01
years ago when it was approved that it's an appropriate place for a, a next use project. That third party engineering studies 00:15:08
would be required of us is in the current development agreement as we understand it to determine actual infrastructure. 00:15:16
For impacts, water use, sewer use and parking need and a parking requirement. We've completed some of the third party engineering 00:15:24
studies to this point, particularly with traffic. As we understand this will add traffic to 400 N, This will add traffic within 00:15:31
our shopping center and there will be a parking need. Also. The engineering studies were done based off of our plans for a 00:15:39
controlled parking garage, parking management plans, I think in the development agreement. 00:15:46
Required. So we just wanted to see before we finalize those plans, if there's any input from City Council for what those parking 00:15:53
management plans would look like. 00:15:57
We believe and we've heard commercial development is a priority for City Council. This is a mixed-use building that contemplates 00:16:04
the. 00:16:07
In our eyes, a substantial amount of square footage of the main level area to be used for retail purposes and commercial purposes. 00:16:11
Just making sure the quality of life for all Vineyard cities is Vineyard Residences is still critical for the city council's 00:16:20
mission. Obviously, that's probably remaining true need a city with a a variety of incomes and and, and all citizens need to be 00:16:27
accommodated for that. We believe this this housing project will will significantly enhance. 00:16:34
The ability for residents to come here and stay here. This will be a fun place for people to live. Pedestrian bicycle access is a 00:16:42
priority for City Council. We've heard that several times in the past. Want to make sure that's still a goal or something we 00:16:48
should be for sure incorporating into this project or if it's changed. City views on 400 N as an important east West connection. 00:16:55
If the city has goals of connecting that to the residential side of Vineyard West of the tracks, eventually obviously through into 00:17:01
Orem. 00:17:07
Through Geneva Rd. 00:17:14
Work, play, eat, recreate, all without having to get out of their car. Man, the zoning code is tough to actually list that out. 00:17:51
You'd probably be 1000 pages if you were trying to actually define exactly what the requirements would be to accomplish that. And 00:18:00
and things change a little bit over time as well. So what we believe is that. 00:18:08
The appropriate process that that we're hoping to take and that we thought through the development agreement was agreed upon is 00:18:16
that we would rely on 3rd party engineers and outside studies and have an active feedback through the process of of how the design 00:18:20
of the mixed-use building would go. 00:18:25
Within a shopping center. 00:18:29
This is the site we're talking about. 00:18:32
Thank everybody familiar with it. 00:18:35
Like I said, this is the remaining site that we have. We don't have any more lands within the yard shopping center. We've got a 00:18:37
couple of pads available that we're hoping to start construction soon on the North End. That's pretty much it. Mountain America 00:18:44
Credit Union is scheduled to open pretty soon. And I think that building looks really good, by the way. OK, next. And Eric, just 00:18:52
don't worry at the council in case they're not seeing full facility, but this is Mill Road, 400 N here and then obviously Geneva. 00:18:59
Yes, and currently 400 N is closed. It's under construction or improvements for Central Utah water and some other infrastructure 00:19:07
items. 00:19:11
This was one of our previous concept plans that we're working with through the development agreement process. You know, very 00:19:15
simple, just trying to do a test fit to see, you know, what would be the appropriate amount of units potentially to bring in here. 00:19:22
At that time we were thinking around 340 units, 350 units somewhere in that area. As we spent significantly more resources and 00:19:28
done more studies and looked at market need and whatnot, it's changed a little bit. If you can go to the next. 00:19:35
Site plan. 00:19:43
Updated site plan brings it down to about 302 units, so less units actually for this site. A little bit different of a mix between 00:19:45
two-bedroom, one bedroom and studio, but like I said, we relied pretty heavily on outside. 00:19:53
Consultants to to direct us as to how to design this, but this is this is getting pretty close to what we'd like to. It's not 00:20:03
finalized and we'll hopefully have a more final version once we apply for a finalization of the development agreement through that 00:20:07
amendment. 00:20:12
Still maintaining the commercial square footage on that main level of about 14,000 square feet. 00:20:19
Vineyards parking requirements for 302 units currently would be 628. 00:20:27
Total stalls with the commercial involved as well. 00:20:33
Our reports came back from Hales Engineering. 00:20:37
If you go to the next slide. 00:20:42
Hills Engineering, um. 00:20:47
They look at the yard overall currently saying, and I don't know if I need to go back into history. I know City Council has 00:20:49
changed quite a bit since we've started developing, but the megaplex was developed by another developer. We acquired all the 00:20:54
surrounding property around the megaplex. 00:20:59
Obviously significant severely under parked the megaplex was we've tried really hard to solve some of their problems or fix some 00:21:05
of their problems, but our our current and and even gone to the extent of helping. 00:21:12
The Edgewater The HOA Edgewater in accommodating them with some of our land to create a parking, a parking field for them. 00:21:19
As doing so, I think we've been extremely conservative for our parking and and I know that's been a requirement of City Council 00:21:29
that we push parking and push parking and push parking. What what was resulted is we are a little bit over parked in the yard 00:21:36
currently right now and and Hails Engineering is has updated us to that and we can have them talk to it. Hails Engineering's ITE 00:21:44
recommendations for this next use building would be 422 stalls, roughly 200 stalls less than the current city code would require. 00:21:51
I'm not proposing that we go down that low. I'm just that's that's where their third party reports came in a comparable property. 00:22:01
Two hours. 00:22:05
Is that improv or can you say that again? It's too low, The code is too low. Like the code would require like 628 stalls for 302 00:22:12
units. 00:22:17
Engineering standards would recommend 422. 00:22:23
Knowing that this is a parking structure, a controlled parking structure, is how they study it, but we're not proposing that we go 00:22:27
down to 422. By the way, I'm just this is the result of the development agreement requiring me to present a report. 00:22:34
When we come in for our final application, comparable property would require $348 obvious I think too low as well. We developed 00:22:42
two actual need is, is what our hope is. We don't want to have fast parking fields that are empty. We don't want to have tenants 00:22:50
who don't have the ability to park either. I think there's an appropriate way to get to the the accurate number, but that that is 00:22:58
a result of the the Hills engineering study and Hales is here right now if you guys want to ask them any questions. 00:23:06
They're going to a lot more detail when we actually do this, but you guys have a need to ask any questions of Hales. 00:23:14
Today. 00:23:21
Does anybody want to ask any questions? 00:23:23
Not right now what it looks like. 00:23:26
What we're likely this is not final at all. This is what our architect has come up with at this point, likely to create about 503 00:23:31
new stalls. 00:23:37
That would be above and beyond what our partner in Austin, TX, the multi family and mixed-use developer that we're partnering with 00:23:45
on this building, above and beyond what they would request us to build. But this is something that I think we would push to have 00:23:52
them build, understanding that this community is a little sensitive to parking requirements, Cross parking. Currently right now we 00:23:58
have 58 unused stalls at the yard on the South end. 00:24:04
And we believe the type of commercial use that will be coming into this building. 00:24:12
Eyebrow waxing insurance agents, executive tweets for people who want to work from home or Zoom meetings. Those are those are the 00:24:19
types that come in too. It's not going to be like a cafe, real restaurant or something like that at the base level of an apartment 00:24:25
building. These are smaller little retailer or private training suites type type retail uses. And if you're interested, we can 00:24:31
bring in at the next meeting. 00:24:37
A lot of examples what other mixed-use buildings have for that tenant mix. 00:24:44
So that's something that does anybody have any questions about this number or any comments to this number? Did you attach health 00:24:50
parking study on this or is that something that we can meet with them at a later point and talk about? Yeah, I think is that 00:24:55
something that. 00:25:00
You have it? Yeah, it's up right now. 00:25:06
OK. 00:25:09
This is their, their, their memo. So I mean they may have more data that they put put together their summary memo and I'm sure 00:25:13
that they can speak to that they're here. 00:25:18
Yeah. And I think Hales is open for, I mean, Joseph is here right now. 00:25:24
I think they'd be open for any type of discussion or meeting without us present. If you guys need that, that's great. Just the 00:25:30
idea that we have it on file so we can go review and then set up those meetings, I think is very helpful. Thank you. 00:25:36
OK. 00:25:48
So that that would be something that we're looking to discuss in in much more detail at a City Council meeting, in more of a back 00:25:49
and forth with with public comment. 00:25:54
And something that maybe prior to that we can get the full engineering study to you all so that you're much more prepared and much 00:26:01
more educated prior to that City Council meeting structured parking. We have not finished our parking management plan. Do you, is 00:26:06
there any? 00:26:11
The previous City Council had had some ideas for a parking management plan for a structured garage parking. I don't think there is 00:26:18
one in the city today. Are there any buildings today with structured parking in Vineyard? You mean coming up, built today, 00:26:23
operating, Yeah. 00:26:28
OK. Is there something particular that the city would like to see in a parking management plan for a structured parking or mayor? 00:26:34
If I could kind of list some of the things that the council discussed in the past. One thing they wanted was to make sure that 00:26:42
there was an inventory and that the management for each of the units had had it connected to the actual vehicles. What we found is 00:26:50
with with the apartment complexes, especially on Mill Rd. the ones that did that early on. 00:26:59
We that's when we started receiving a lot of complaints and the city went through a major effort of, of working with those 00:27:44
apartment complexes to get parking management plans in place. So definitely having like the leases connected to the vehicles. I 00:27:51
think the other one too was having like the inside the structure somewhat controlled where, where the residential is. So you're 00:27:58
not going to just just have, you know, there may be some mix between the retail that that having some. 00:28:06
Some separation so that you do preserve residential parking spaces for, for, for the actual unit so that it's not just one big 00:28:15
open shared, you know, concepts of whether there's a flash card or something like that that provides you entry. I think those were 00:28:21
the two ones. And then there was a request for some sort of security measure. But I, I remember these are the items that were 00:28:27
brought up in past work sessions when went through the, the development agreement. Those were kind of the three main ones. I don't 00:28:33
know. 00:28:39
Yeah. And I feel like there are other things that we talked about prior that we probably went back and forth on with the last 00:28:46
council, but we could get this together and each of our council today could go through and say what's important to them and we'll 00:28:52
send it to you. The other one, I apologize, it was 400 N providing priority retail parking. 00:28:59
On the street so customers could pull up in front of the the retail establishment so they wouldn't have to go inside of the 00:29:05
parking structure if they didn't need to, that there was some priority parking spaces so. 00:29:11
OK. So assigning specific stalls, having those labeled per unit tied to a license plate of a vehicle with a controlled arm or gate 00:29:19
or some way that it's secured and only permitted guests or permitted tenants could use those stalls, is that? 00:29:28
Or whatever measures, it'll be a pretty detailed management plan and any input that you guys could have or ideas that you have for 00:30:16
managing a structured parking garage, that would be probably the first one that would be built in this city that would be helpful. 00:30:23
That's great. I did a project in Salt Lake, downtown Salt Lake called the 702702 building. That's like part of their address and 00:30:32
they did exactly that. They had they had a card. I think you get get through the gate and then there were. 00:30:39
Assigned parking stalls and it was also mixed-use. So if you're in downtown Salt Lake you could maybe go have them show you 00:30:47
because it it worked right but and similar it was kind of similar in size too. 00:30:53
Yeah, OK. We'll look forward to your comments. 00:31:00
On that next slide. 00:31:05
This is. This has changed quite a bit since our original. 00:31:12
Approval the IT didn't appear to be appropriate. At one point we had reverse 45° stalls in front of the building on 400 N where 00:31:17
you would back into your stall. 00:31:22
That has actually, we've seen, we've been to some projects that have done that, that have done that. 00:31:30
I I don't believe 400 N would be an appropriate road to do that on based on what our consultants have come back to us with. Did 00:31:37
you have any other comments on that Morgan or is that? 00:31:42
But there there there was an interest in looking at that. And so I don't think the City Council was dead set on adverse angle, but 00:32:20
there was something that we wanted to have at least looked at from a safety standpoint. OK, So that's not a City Council issue 00:32:24
that. 00:32:28
With one of that four, OK, we've aligned the parking garage entrance with the South entrance on 400 N that will go into our our 00:32:32
Geneva retail, which consists of the hotel and McDonald's and AutoZone and O'reilly's and all of that to the South. So that's, 00:32:39
that's well aligned right now. 00:32:46
The potential that has been coming back to us is can we add more parking on the north side of 400 N? Possibly. This plan right 00:32:53
here is showing additional stalls, 19 more stalls on 400 N that would go in front of the medical office building to the West of 00:32:59
our project. 00:33:05
Kind of within the right of way area, some on private property, something that I would have to negotiate and deal with, but happy 00:33:13
to move forward with those discussions if this is something that's important with. 00:33:18
With the city or with the Council? 00:33:23
The next thing would be adding a potential bike lane on the 400 N is right now in front of our building. 400 N is not improved. 00:33:59
This is an opportunity that we have to work together to improve a right of way to improve what I think is a pretty important 00:34:05
roadway system through throughout the city. Since 800 N and Center Street are are going to be, you know, interchanges with with 00:34:12
I-15 forever, 400 N has the capability to move east and West underneath the freeway. Eventually once once that intersection on 00:34:18
Geneva Rd. is done, the rail is removed. 00:34:24
And connecting that over into Orem and talking about that seemed to just same discussion with them Council. Do you have any 00:35:02
comments on that or anything? 00:35:06
Not just they've been actually some really good feedback about bikeability over there. So I think it's great that you're looking 00:35:11
at that. 00:35:14
My mic was on. I'll have to speak directly. There have been some good commentary from the residents over there about bike ability, 00:35:18
so I appreciate you looking at it. 00:35:23
Yeah, I think the bike lane needs to stay. 00:35:28
Or the requirement for it? 00:35:32
OK. I don't know if there's a requirement currently today, but we're happy to incorporate it into our plans is what I think we 00:35:35
would like as we're looking to finalize or amend the development agreement with these final little details that we're kind of part 00:35:41
of our approval was that we needed to come back with some engineering reports and some studies. 00:35:47
We have met with the engineering. It does appear that we can fit a bike lane onto 400 N If that's what you'd like to see, I'm 00:35:54
happy to incorporate that. 00:35:58
Something else that's been asked of us is if we could add crosswalks on 400 N. 00:36:03
The. 00:36:09
Our engineers, he's been through it. He surveyed it, he's looked at it. Yes, it's possible. Is it something that we view as our 00:36:13
responsibility as as a private property being improved that's not even adjacent to where these crosswalks would go? 00:36:19
I don't know that there could be a legal requirement to us. Is there something that I would I would like to see for my 00:36:28
development? Yeah, I, I actually actually would really like to see a connection with Edgewater, some pedestrian connectivity to to 00:36:34
our site. And so I think adding that crosswalk and slowing some traffic down. 00:36:39
That they wanted to go to restaurants and bring their family, but that they felt that they had to drive just because there, there 00:37:17
there weren't safe crossings. And so there there was a desire from residents to to see that intersection. So Morgan, we talked 00:37:25
about visual changes and also pedestrian plasters or something like that. Is that what this would include or what all would be 00:37:32
enhanced on the site? Mostly just color differentiation so that they can see there's people walking across. 00:37:39
Yeah, this, this is anticipating and it's not a final design. This is our engineer is just idea right now of a different surface 00:37:46
material that would show the crosswalks, ADA ramps on all four corners of this intersection. 00:37:52
To accommodate and somehow pinching down the traffic a little bit, whether it's through paint or landscape adjacent. It didn't 00:37:59
think there was space for a landscape island in the middle of 400 N, but something that would catch driver's eyes to make them 00:38:04
slow down. 00:38:09
The question we would have is what would be the speed limit on this road long long term? 00:38:16
The scene This is a This is a collector Rd. isn't it? 00:38:21
Yes, yes. Can you hear me alright? Yes, it is. 00:38:31
OK. Yeah, I think we we're definitely about in my opinion connecting these two areas and I think a visual change is definitely 00:38:35
important and this is something I think that I will probably need to go back and. 00:38:43
Look at myself and probably talk to Hills and our engineers just to decide how we're going to move forward with collectors and and 00:38:53
then bring that back to the council so that they can have the best information. But it's I think it's appropriate to. 00:39:00
Plan for it, plan for something there so that we can have those conversations. 00:39:08
OK, Brady Morris at Enzyme Engineering is the one who surveyed and he has most of the data if you wanted to get more sketches from 00:39:13
him. 00:39:17
You can reach out to him on your own. We're happy to provide those as well. And Julie, just to just add really quick on the active 00:39:22
transportation plan that we approve one of the elements and it wasn't a requirement, but how it was stated in there. As we add 00:39:28
cross box that will put pedestrian indicators because I think there was some concern about just adding the painted lines. But if 00:39:35
you have the indicators, you're at least wanting people ahead of time because I think we have a couple others that were interested 00:39:41
in doing this year. 00:39:47
So that would be excellent. 00:40:24
OK. 00:40:27
I mean, the last thing would be Jamie will appreciate this is whether we're who's paying for these improvements. 00:40:29
Or required to pay for them. It's something that I do want to see the success of our project. I'm not saying that we wouldn't 00:40:38
participate in it. I do want to see the success of our project. I want to see it work out and I do think pedestrians into our 00:40:43
shopping center does benefit us probably more than 10 months. 00:40:48
Next slide. 00:40:56
Oh, is there any other comments? Oh last question I had on. 00:40:58
That's the last slide, OK. Any other question on 400 N or comments on 400 N? 00:41:01
I view 400 N as a major thoroughfare to get through and it's got to connect and it would easily take off a lot of stress off of 00:41:08
Center Street. So critical to like maximize that. But then #2 on your parking, and I know it already passed of like, are you going 00:41:16
to be asking less than the minimum that the city requires now? Yeah. So I, I can't remember the exact section within the 00:41:24
development agreement, but there's a requirement of us to go in the development agreement out to. 00:41:32
Engineering for our infrastructure, which is related to. 00:41:41
Water impact and sewer impact as well as parking and and come back with a third party report for that. The way that the current 00:41:44
code is written now, which I think is a blanket code across. 00:41:51
A zone that I don't know how much it should apply to this exact site to be honest with you, but as we're we're quite a bit over 00:41:59
parked in our current shopping center. If you don't include Megaplex, which technically isn't my issue or problem, I've been 00:42:04
trying to help solve it as much as I could. 00:42:09
Umm, I would see I I would think that a blanket approach to parking a. 00:42:15
A structured parking mixed-use facility using code that's intended for. 00:42:21
Surface park, asphalt garden style apartments. 00:42:28
We didn't think it was appropriate and so we thought working with an engineer and through the development agreement and then 00:42:33
coming back with the engineers recommendations that there could be a potential for the appropriate number being allocated. I'm not 00:42:39
saying whether that's less or more. It's currently showing significantly less than what the blanket code shows. 00:42:45
By over 202 hundred stalls, we're not going to be asking for that much of A reduction at all. What we would like to do is not have 00:42:52
a lot of unused stalls, but I think the details of the engineering report, I think we can get to you all between now and the time 00:42:57
we apply. 00:43:02
Any meetings that need to be had with Hales without me there? I'm happy to arrange or or you can reach out directly to Hales, but. 00:43:09
I think unused stalls, it shows a success. They're not a negative, it shows you planned. 00:43:17
I love seeing it. It's like people die, grandmother gets sick missing somebody comes home from a mission. 00:43:25
A plan for somebody get to work. Truck life happens. I like empty stalls sometimes. 00:43:33
I I I would agree for it. 00:43:41
There, I think there was, I think there's an appropriate number is what I'm saying. If you didn't see any, any vacant stalls at 00:43:44
all in front of Cafe Rio, you probably wouldn't go eat there right where you didn't see any vacant stalls at all at the bank, you 00:43:50
might go to the next branch. So yes, there has to be vacant stalls at times, but I think there's an appropriate number that. 00:43:56
People smarter than me usually come up with. 00:44:02
And, and I think it would be, it would be beneficial if council could meet with Hales Engineering, maybe one-on-one even. Yeah, 00:44:08
we'll facilitate those meetings. 00:44:13
Anything, any way that we can assist is we have quite a bit of property adjacent to the rents were. 00:44:51
So right now, money is being spent down on design and we're moving forward. And recently we were able to renegotiate some of the 00:44:56
closed intersections in the city. So we had to pull back and open up some additional intersections, but those are moving forward 00:45:03
right now. So we're really close to finalizing the next phase of development for removing the spurs, the spur line. U Dot's been 00:45:10
assisting us in that meeting. If you want, we can keep you informed as we move through that process. 00:45:17
Yeah. I think that would be important, especially for this project as well. OK, Thank you. Thanks. 00:45:25
All right, that brings us to our public comments. This is a time for anybody in the audience that wants to address the council on 00:45:30
things that are not currently on the agenda. If you have something come up to the podium, state your name, where you're from, and 00:45:35
we will hear your comments. 00:45:40
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard Resident First of all, I want to say what a wonderful job the city did working with citizens and 00:45:54
cleaning up the graffiti over the weekend. That was amazing how it happened so quickly and so seamlessly. So I think that's 00:46:02
wonderful. I've talked a few times before about the importance of transparency and building trust. 00:46:09
Between those on the council and those who live in Vineyard. 00:46:17
And I just wanted to talk a little bit about transparency and what does it mean to us? 00:46:21
And as I've thought about this, to me in government, transparency is the obligation to share information with citizens. 00:46:26
That is needed to make informed decisions and hold officials accountable for the conduct of the people's business. 00:46:37
So what you do is the business of all of us who pay taxes and who reside here and make this city possible. 00:46:45
Transparency implies openness, communication, and accountability. 00:46:55
And lack of transparency fosters an US versus them attitude, and that's not what we want. 00:47:00
So I have concerns. 00:47:08
One, I'm going to share one of many with you when transparency was needed but not afforded to the citizen and possibly even to 00:47:11
some of the council here in Vineyard. And perhaps we could look at this and improve based on what happened there. And this is 00:47:20
something that I always go back to because this was a big meeting where lots of things happened and this is the December 13th. 00:47:28
I'll wait. 00:47:38
This was the December 13th Council meeting last. 00:47:44
Last year in 2023 and we had on the agenda we had 9. 00:47:48
Consent items. 00:47:54
There the 8th one was 6.8 approval of economic strategy contract extensions. 00:47:57
OK, Now Please note on this, this particular item or any of the items that were consent items that day. 00:48:06
There was no names, there was no amount, so there were no dollar figures and we had no idea who these consent items were between 00:48:14
or with or for or any of them. So. 00:48:21
Marty, and I appreciate you doing this. She apologized for not knowing anything about this particular consent. I don't know. She 00:48:29
asked for an explanation. 00:48:34
And so because Morgan wasn't here at the time, Jamie offered to give an explanation. When I checked the minutes, the explanation 00:48:40
was not in the minutes. It just simply said that Jamie explained it. So I got to take all of my afternoon and go through the 00:48:49
recording so that I could hear how he explained it. So I'm going to read to you, he said. 00:48:58
And I'm going to quote it. 00:49:08
I can find it here in my notes. 00:49:10
The explanation was limited at best, and in answer to Macy's question, he stated there are agreements the city has been working on 00:49:18
with a number of economic development entities and this resolution is to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew and 00:49:25
continue those relationships with the word that he used. 00:49:33
No messing with membership. 00:49:42
I'm sorry, I'm going to continue. 00:49:44
I don't believe this explanation was completely accurate as I mentioned. 00:49:47
It was actually a resolution that allowed for our mayor. 00:49:55
To renew her membership with the World Trade Center Utah for two years. 00:49:59
Relationships and memberships are not the same thing. 00:50:05
So this is not a transparent answer I'm going to have. I'm not going to have you go for 15 seconds more and then we have to stop. 00:50:10
Well, I need to finish. 00:50:14
The way that this works is that you have provided amount of time. I stopped because you left and went over there and I wanted you 00:50:19
to hear what I had and then you had two additional minutes added to it. Resolution. As I said, it allowed for her to have those 00:50:25
two more. So I hope you can see why this is upsetting because there was no transparency in any of these consent items. There was 00:50:31
no dollar figure, there was no names, there was nothing there and it was just everything was approved. I think there was one that 00:50:37
was pulled. 00:50:43
OK, other consent items. Karen, it's time you have to end the comment now. OK, Well, I just want to if you have more transparency 00:50:49
in this community and if we are going if you are going to ask. 00:50:56
We would like you to be transparent with us. Thank you very much. Thank you for your comment. If you have additional things that 00:51:03
you want to say, we can say it after this. 00:51:07
Well, I would just like the steer resolution made that transparency will be in all agenda items. Thank you. Thank you so much, 00:51:12
Karen. 00:51:16
Any further comments? 00:51:23
Hi, Ryan Holdaway, Vineyard resident. 00:51:27
I actually came in today to thank the city for the participation in the memorial which was built to remember Sienna. 00:51:30
I understood that was on Orem property and I understood that they were building that, but I was really pleased to see Vineyard 00:51:41
City trucks. 00:51:47
And engagement obviously in the in the building and the Memorial Day. And I think it's really important because. 00:51:52
These are our children and as a as a driver, myself and I'll. 00:52:01
I'll tell everybody on put it on record. I was pulled over today because I I stopped for something in the crosswalk, but I didn't 00:52:07
wait until I left the crosswalk to drive forward and I was pulled over and given a warning. 00:52:12
And as somebody who looks at that bench every day driving home, I, I failed. And so I think that's really important and protecting 00:52:18
our children is. 00:52:25
It's it's just such a tragedy that she had to lose her life though. So that being said, I do want to mention how grateful I am for 00:52:33
the city and the council and youth manner for thinking about the future and protecting our way of life in Vineyard. 00:52:41
And. 00:52:50
As it relates to as the city is growing exponentially and, and I'm really glad to see agenda items to change how the council and 00:52:52
the mayor work together. And I just would like to publicly state that I would really encourage you guys to not think about the 00:52:59
status quo in the relationships that you have right now, but think about as we change our our form of government, what is what our 00:53:07
government is going to need in five to 10 years from now. So that's my comment and I appreciate this time. 00:53:14
Thank you. 00:53:24
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:53:32
I'd like to also commend our city staff, NASIM and Cash Yancy. 00:53:36
For taking care of that terrible graffiti and it's just, it's just sad and just grateful that it was taken care of immediately. 00:53:42
That was wonderful. Also, that bench is really cool looking. I rode my bike by it. I really liked it. I just have a couple 00:53:49
questions. What is the date for the next public hearing about the change of government? I know that we're having our first public 00:53:56
hearing tonight. I would like to know what the next date for that, for the next public hearing is. 00:54:03
And also. 00:54:11
Our ex development gentleman mentioned parking. I have a concern about the lakefront parking that we were going to talk about 00:54:13
what's going to happen. 00:54:18
From the month November through March when cars are supposed to be off the road for snow removal, if that parking is going to be 00:54:25
allowed for overnight parking on 3rd West, what will happen to those cars during that time period for snow removal? Thank you. 00:54:33
Thank you. 00:54:43
I am Mike Cox, Vineyard resident. 00:54:52
I wanted to just stand out and publicly say how much I love being a Vineyard over the 4th of July and I love being in Utah County 00:54:57
over the 4th of July. It means a lot to me what goes on. 00:55:04
I would like to say that I got involved with what's going on at Vineyard about three years ago. 00:55:14
When my wife and I both felt like. 00:55:24
So we didn't get honesty from our mayor about parking situation. We have to buy parking passes to park in front of our house and. 00:55:27
At first we were told that we could get to, but then when the final thing came down, we voted against it because it was only one 00:55:42
and we needed more than one. 00:55:46
Anyway I. 00:55:51
I have the amazing opportunity, um. 00:55:54
During March and April. 00:55:57
To go door to door and vineyard and umm. 00:56:01
There's one most profound experiences in my life. I knew that I lived among amazing people, but after. 00:56:06
Spending over a month knocking on doors and Vineyard, I was truly moved by house caring and how wonderful and how amazing the 00:56:15
people are here in Vineyard. But I want to say. 00:56:22
That and I can give you all the exact dates and names, the addresses. 00:56:31
Everything I talked to. 00:56:38
786 households in Vineyard. 00:56:40
OK. 00:56:45
And. 00:56:47
Of those 786, I told them that I joined a group that was against what the mayor was doing and against what the City Council had 00:56:49
been doing, and we helped to get two people on City Council. I told them that and. 00:56:56
Out of 786 doors, roofs, households, I found one person who was in favor of our mayor. 00:57:04
And that person happened to be on the Planning Commission. 00:57:14
So I started out talking to these people because I got involved because parking was a disaster. OK, so I want to tell everyone 00:57:17
here, everyone here, 785 to one. 00:57:24
That's how we feel about what's going on with the developers and with high density and with parking. 00:57:32
Comes in here and asks for less parking and you give it to them. 00:57:42
And there's problems in every single every single high density place and vineyard. Everyone has a problem. 00:57:47
So this is the tidal wave that's coming for all of you, 785 to one. Thank you very much. 00:57:55
If you are looking to make a comment, can you raise your hands or public comment? 00:58:12
All right, this is going to be the final comment. 00:58:17
I want to commend the mayor and the council on being diligent and wanting to. 00:58:22
David Larae, resident. 00:58:26
Anyway, welcome to mayor and the council on on being diligent about making sure we move forward the city business and so forth. 00:58:29
And sorry, I understand that that was the reason behind selling these limits on public comment. I would, however, also like to 2nd 00:58:36
Karen Cornetti's comments about transparency. It's a very important thing to have a trust between the citizenry and their 00:58:44
government and I just have to say that. 00:58:51
This limiting that you've been doing, I know it's a million times just to move things along, but the effect is to cause a lot of 00:58:59
great distrust amongst the citizenry. And I'd, I'd ask you if you would please to reconsider that and perhaps find another way to 00:59:04
move things along, but still allow people to be able to speak their mind and give you information they want to give. Thank you. 00:59:10
Thanks. 00:59:16
OK. We'll go ahead and move on to our next item, which is our consent items. Can I get a motion? 00:59:23
I move to approve the consent items as presented first by Amber. Can I get a second? 00:59:38
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, aye. 00:59:43
All right, hey, I have a question. Why is it #5 the report and we just skipped to seven one. You just do that in the meeting. I'm 00:59:48
moving those down. Yeah. Why don't we organize this before the meetings so people know the order? Sometimes I do. I just been 00:59:56
making a judgement call to get to some important public hearings tonight. All right, 9.1 discussing an action. This is the parking 01:00:04
permit program resolution 2024-17 and our senior planner cash hand people present. 01:00:11
Thank you, Mayor, I'll be presenting in his place. 01:00:23
Was unable to come tonight. So I'm Morgan Brand, the Community Development Director. And so tonight we're looking at a resolution 01:00:26
which would provide allowance for overnight parking on 300 W and on Loop Rd. which is that perpendicular Rd. that connects in at 01:00:32
that location. 01:00:38
It would limit it to one parking permit per household. 01:00:45
The resolution would provide 5 parking permits to the lakefront at Town Center HOA that they could provide to their residents for 01:00:51
temporary guest parking. 01:00:57
The permit would be provided to city residents on a first come, first serve basis. 01:01:04
It does have a requirement in there for the clubhouse parking which I believe is 29 stalls. 01:01:11
To be opened for their residents to park overnight. 01:01:18
And so we felt that was important that there was some on site parking. 01:01:24
It would provide. 01:01:29
It would limit 12 of the parking stalls. 01:01:32
On 300 W that would not be allowed for overnight parking so that we can preserve that. So on a Saturday morning, folks go into the 01:01:37
lake would still have that, have access to some of those stalls. 01:01:43
The so we will provide up to 70 or 87 street parking stalls for overnight parking. If the if the H way would like more than that, 01:01:52
then it would require the kind of the first remedy to provide those and to build more parking on site up to 25 stalls before we we 01:02:01
would provide more more on site parking. 01:02:09
I think that pretty much sums up that kind of kind of the main points of the resolution. Do you know if our permitting ordinance 01:02:20
touches a snow removal or if we just defer to our snow removal ordinance? Yeah, that we, so we, we have the the winter. 01:02:30
Parking restriction when it's punished, forms coming in. 01:02:41
Yeah, yeah, it'd have been applied to all and that's just for citywide parking in general. Everybody can park on the street and 01:02:45
then everybody has to move solutions. So it would be, it would require that from everyone. OK, great. Thank you for all of your 01:02:52
work on this and thanks for bringing it back to us. Are there questions from the council or any comments? No, thank you, Sarah. I 01:02:58
think we did have a, we did have a. 01:03:05
Apologize for putting that up. So we would like to have at least the program in place in August so we can start issuing permits. 01:03:46
But most likely we would wait till, I believe, September. We would advertise and let people know so that if there are folks that 01:03:53
have been parking out there, then they'd be able to make adjustments before getting towed or booted. Perfect. OK Marty, did you 01:03:59
have anything to add? I know you said it on a lot of these meetings. 01:04:06
I just want to read what Amber said. I feel like Sarah's done a really good job working with the HOA. I was able to sit in on a 01:04:14
meeting and I think from my understanding there was some good compromises made and I really appreciate the work you put into. 01:04:22
Excellent. OK, then I need a motion. I just want to make a comment. I think I think this is a very good step. 01:04:29
Important, but I think there's some rules or different things. 01:04:39
That I wish there were some adjustments to, but it like is a step in the right direction and what the current vote stands it, it's 01:04:44
my understanding that we're going to be doing a parking permit in the city and they're going to be paying us right. And what's the 01:04:48
total dollar amount? 01:04:53
Yeah, it's 60, but but it's, it's prorated. And so every month it goes, it goes down a little bit. And so that's yeah, so it's not 01:05:00
so cuz we've had residents that you're like, well, why do we have to pay the full amount? It's November, we're only getting the 01:05:06
benefit for two months and so. 01:05:12
Yeah, it it's 60 for the full year, and then it drops at least $5.00 a month a month. You know, I remember being here when that 01:05:20
development had hundreds of people protesting the parking problem. 01:05:27
Or the amount of empty parking stalls and just screaming and saying hey, there needs to be more. And I just think that's why I go 01:05:35
back to empty parking as people live differently than what a designer thought. And I hate that now the city is profiting, you 01:05:42
know, the $60.00. And I wish in the future if we had the votes to not have to charge that. But I do support the medium ground and 01:05:49
I think this is a good step in the right direction. I just wish that it would be more aggressive but. 01:05:57
It's the it's the movement that we got, but I would definitely campaign or push for more of. 01:06:05
Just open it up and let him park. But I know I don't. We don't have the votes for that. 01:06:13
In regards to your statement, it was not just the City Council that thought opening up is completely free was. 01:06:18
The best decision, so just to clarify, I wanted to understand your statement. Were you saying you want to do passes, that you want 01:06:27
the passes free or you passes it all in the future? I think the passes should have been done by the HOA and not the city or I 01:06:34
believe that the HOA should be able to control that themselves and not so just to clarify as well. 01:06:42
It is A to do that. It would be a public private partnership that you said you don't like in the past. So I'm just wondering. 01:06:52
If that affects your thought on that at all, no, it doesn't affect it. 01:06:58
It doesn't mean it's a public Rd. So it could take that, but it's, it's not a, it's a compromise that's positive and moves it in 01:07:02
the right direction. That was my understanding is that because it's a city road, then the city takes responsibility for the 01:07:10
upkeep. And so that's, that's why it felt like a little bit of a fair exchange for them. But I feel like they've been very fair on 01:07:18