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Thank you all for being here this evening. 00:00:15
Today is August 14th, 2024. 00:00:17
The time is 536. We're going to go ahead and start our City Council meeting. 00:00:21
Councilmember sequences will give us a invocation and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:27
I, Derek, and Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. 00:00:33
We are grateful for our community. 00:00:40
And for our staff and for. 00:00:43
The hard work. 00:00:45
And relationships that have been built, please bless and. 00:00:46
Help us make good decisions tonight, and help us. 00:00:50
Be calm and level heads that we can understand one another's concerns and. 00:00:53
We're so very grateful for. 00:00:57
This wonderful country we live in. Please bless our servicemen and. 00:00:59
Please press and watch over those residents and people inside and outside of our community who are in need. Help us know how to 00:01:02
find them and help. 00:01:06
Serve and be. 00:01:09
That caring support and we say these things. 00:01:12
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:14
All right. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:21
United States of America. 00:01:24
And from which it stands one nation under God. 00:01:27
With liberty and justice all. 00:01:32
All right. 00:01:45
All right, all right. 00:01:48
As our next meeting is going to be starting at 6:00, I'm going to go in order of this agenda that I feel will take us there and 00:01:52
get us there on time. So we're going to start off with our. 00:01:58
Consent items. 00:02:04
Councillor, I need a motion. 00:02:06
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:02:13
I have a first guy, Amber. Can I get a second second? 00:02:17
Second by Marty, all in favor. 00:02:20
Aye, aye. 00:02:22
All right. 00:02:24
That brings us to public comment. 00:02:25
If there is anyone that. 00:02:29
Excuse me if there's anyone that would like to make a public comment that is not about. 00:02:31
The certified tax rate adjustment that's coming up. 00:02:37
Umm, you may come to the podium. State your name. You have two minutes. 00:02:42
And we will hear your comments. 00:02:47
Kim Cornelius Vineyard Resident I'm just curious why we started at 5:30 to the six. 00:02:56
So that's all I need to know. 00:03:02
Thank you. 00:03:06
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:03:16
Just going on this consent item that you just approved. 00:03:19
On the approval of the. 00:03:22
City Council special session edited minutes of August 7th, 2024. 00:03:24
I asked for City Council to reconsider their decision. 00:03:29
On changing the form of government, unfortunately, my reasoning was edited out. 00:03:33
The reason is because I feel that we do not have the money in the budget for a vote. 00:03:39
And the money to pay for a salary for a new council member at this time. 00:03:44
I would appreciate that. 00:03:49
Those words being entered into the record at this time. Thank you. 00:03:51
Thank you. 00:03:56
Cornelius in your resident. 00:04:09
As you probably know, the. 00:04:14
That have met as a. 00:04:16
As a group of concerned citizens regarding the budget. 00:04:19
And we've met with Eric on two occasions and we recently received an e-mail. 00:04:22
Letting us know that it is not appropriate for him to meet with us, that he feels that it is a partisan discussion and that we 00:04:27
should seek legal counsel regarding that. 00:04:31
So, umm. 00:04:36
My concern is. 00:04:38
How is trying to save? 00:04:39
The residents of Vineyard money a partisan issue. 00:04:42
That's my first point. 00:04:45
My second point is, and I'm going to quote this from the e-mail that he sent. 00:04:47
The appropriate forum for such discussions involving city residents, staff. 00:04:52
And council members is our public council meetings. 00:04:57
Which are open to everyone. 00:05:01
And ensure transparency. 00:05:03
Open to everyone for two minutes. 00:05:06
So to tell me that an open meeting. 00:05:10
With a city staff member. 00:05:13
Is something that we can't do, but we can have two minutes at a City Council is really troubling. 00:05:16
Because if we really want to have informative discussions, things where we learn and you learn. 00:05:22
Two minutes is not sufficient and that's what I wanted to share. Thank you. 00:05:28
Russell Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:05:40
Yeah, my comment kind of piggybacks off of Karen's on that. 00:05:43
Comment This is the meeting to bring forth this kind of stuff. 00:05:46
She's already arrested. two-minute part of it. I'd like to address the part where we don't get answers to questions real time. 00:05:50
We used to get that and I thought that was very useful and informative, like Kim's question, why are we meeting at 5:30 and that 00:05:56
could be answered. 00:05:59
In 10 seconds. 00:06:02
But instead though, we have to wait and maybe get an answer later. And my wife asks questions all the time. 00:06:04
And she does not get answers to all of them. 00:06:10
And so that's failing. 00:06:13
And also when we do get answers, often it leads to follow up questions you can't ask. 00:06:15
Because we didn't get an ask, it didn't get an answer real time. 00:06:19
And so that's my concern is I think we should. 00:06:23
Be able to get answers when they're available. I realize some answers you don't have after research them. 00:06:26
But some answers we can get right away. 00:06:31
And it just would, I think, help where it used to be. I thought it was very, very useful and beneficial. 00:06:33
And I just like to remind everybody, too, we're all on the same team. 00:06:40
When I've been to the residence, we all want a good place to live and. 00:06:44
And, you know, upset in some of these meetings where I just walk out shaking my head. 00:06:47
Some of the comments that have been said. 00:06:52
In a in a bad way. 00:06:54
I think we can disagree in positive ways and work together Compromise. 00:06:56
We can. We're not always going to get our way, I realize that. 00:07:00
But I just like to see this. 00:07:05
Uh, really work hard and really consider one another's opinions. 00:07:07
The transparent so we can all know that it's. 00:07:13
What we're seeing is. 00:07:17
Is so we know what's going on. 00:07:18
And thank you for the comment. 00:07:20
Thank you. 00:07:23
OK, are there any other comments? 00:07:29
If not, I'll go ahead and. 00:07:32
Close the public comments. 00:07:34
And there were a couple of things, Eric, I don't know if you wanted to address. 00:07:35
King's comment, I mean Karens comment. 00:07:39
We are holding this meeting at 5:30 because we are holding a public hearing that's noticed and obligated to be done at six. 00:07:43
So we have to finish all business before that time. 00:07:49
Thank you for your comments otherwise. 00:07:54
I don't know if this is the timer if you'd like to address that outside this meeting. 00:07:56
I'm happy to address the question. 00:08:04
One of our council members. 00:08:07
Holds a campaign group. 00:08:09
Through his political group Politico Group. 00:08:12
And that group has formed a. 00:08:15
A committee or a group that. 00:08:19
That are that one council member uses to provide feedback to him on. 00:08:23
Political issues and other issues, including financial. 00:08:28
Guidance. 00:08:33
But that is very much a group that that our Council member has formed. 00:08:34
That align in. 00:08:40
In beliefs and. 00:08:43
And. 00:08:46
Purpose behind his campaigning efforts. 00:08:47
What I would like to avoid is. 00:08:50
Starting to mix the lines between campaign type activities, which city staff are not supposed to. 00:08:53
Engage in campaign activities. 00:09:01
And. 00:09:03
And legitimate questions. And so This is why. 00:09:04
This is why there is a division between our elected officials. 00:09:08
Staff and the public so that. 00:09:12
Our elected Our elected representatives. 00:09:14
Can interface with the residents of our city. 00:09:17
And be a resource of information on. 00:09:22
What is happening in the city? 00:09:25
So we our expectation is that our, our, our city. 00:09:26
Council members. 00:09:31
Interact with us frequently and and in as many meetings as we need. 00:09:32
To be sure that each of you are well informed. 00:09:38
And then you as representatives of the city. 00:09:42
Can go back to the residence. 00:09:44
And provide answers and information. 00:09:46
And explain why we're doing what we're doing. 00:09:49
And really kind of have those important, engaging conversations. 00:09:52
But that as soon as we start gathering. 00:09:56
With council members, staff and residents. 00:10:00
Especially if those engagements are with particular groups. 00:10:04
That's where we. 00:10:08
Might get ourselves in trouble, and that's what I was. 00:10:10
Trying to get at in that information. I don't know the legalities that are close enough and that's why I suggested. 00:10:12
Getting legal feedback on that. 00:10:20
OK. Thank you. Can we get legal feedback on that, Jamie? 00:10:22
The follow up question is. 00:10:28
Being characterized as a political group, there's many people on the committee that are not part of the Vineyard political group, 00:10:32
namely Daria Evans is not a part of the. 00:10:36
And they were, there were four people that were selected and we went through the approval process of deputizing the for the, the, 00:10:42
the people that we said, hey, these are going to get access to the. 00:10:47
Finances and you said yes. As long as they're your advisors they can help you. 00:10:53
So is he able to block? 00:11:00
Who I have advised me to come in. 00:11:02
I mean, there's, there's four people that have extreme expertise. 00:11:05
Kimberly Olson is a CPA. 00:11:09
David Larae, who's been the more planning sessions than anyone else. 00:11:16
Daria Evans has been to more City Council meetings than anyone else. 00:11:20
Sean Herring, who has the largest background and development in the city. So all four were this. 00:11:24
Were picked now there were others that said hey, if you want to come. 00:11:32
But why would a city manager be able to eliminate who I have advised me? 00:11:36
In a meeting. 00:11:41
You are able to have. 00:11:43
You're able to confront, liaise with whoever you would like. 00:11:45
Right to inform your judgment as a member of the City Council. 00:11:48
The issue as I understand it is. 00:11:52
Whether you along with whichever citizens you wish to have with you. 00:11:55
Have the right to. 00:12:02
Consume staff time to have these discussions. 00:12:05
And whether that is sanctioned or official. 00:12:09
Committee of the city, it's not, definitely not an official, I mean. 00:12:14
There's a little bit more I'd like to answer and I'm happy to answer any follow up questions. 00:12:18
There's a process. 00:12:23
City code that lays out how committees are formed and how commissions are. 00:12:26
Form there's different. 00:12:31
Types of groups that have different functions. Some cities will have a Finance Committee that's comprised of. 00:12:33
Members of staff and members of the council. 00:12:40
The city could form something like that. That would. 00:12:43
Be the subcommittee that would roll up its sleeves to get more in depth and spend more time. 00:12:47
On budget issues and financial issues than what you spend. 00:12:52
During a council meeting. 00:12:57
The limited time that we're together each week. 00:12:59
But. 00:13:01
The the real aspect of what? 00:13:02
This group was doing that is a concern to me is. 00:13:06
The use of this term deputized. 00:13:09
They are not deputized or authorized. 00:13:12
To do anything on behalf of the city. 00:13:16
Yeah. And when you talk about deputies to me, that has. 00:13:19
Significant legal meaning because it means they act with the same authority that. 00:13:23
A member of the council would have or the staff would have, and that just simply isn't the case. 00:13:28
Now, I don't mean by that to. 00:13:33
Minimize the importance of staff involvement or the care that. 00:13:37
Or not. Staff involvement? Citizen involvement. 00:13:42
Or the care that these citizens may have for the city, that that may be real. 00:13:45
But it needs to go through the proper channels. 00:13:50
And I I fear it's a little bit out of order. 00:13:55
To have a single council member. 00:13:57
Deputize people. 00:14:00
And then expect that those individuals will be able to call on staff. 00:14:02
And meet with staff whenever they wish. 00:14:06
I think that's helpful. The word deputize was selected by the state auditor, not me. He's he asked me he he used that term to be 00:14:10
able to. 00:14:15
Share the Ledger. 00:14:20
Or any finances since we were going through the finances of so I could be very careful. 00:14:22
I think deputies is just. 00:14:28
Can I share the finance, the finances that are shared? 00:14:30
And if we need any training of like what they can and cannot do like. 00:14:34
Not posting on social media or something like that. 00:14:38
And it also showed that I think. 00:14:40
You know the state. 00:14:43
Has an assessment where we're graded on if we have a state of a citizen. 00:14:45
Timothy, that I agree that the Council, the state wants us to have a selected by everyone. 00:14:51
But that was. 00:15:00
That offer was rejected. 00:15:03
Like to create that and so. 00:15:05
We just did a smaller of these are advisors that are kind of helping me to kind of. 00:15:08
Depoliticize the effort and bring the experts to help. 00:15:13
So it wasn't any effort and so if we need to. 00:15:17
Walk that legal line so that. 00:15:19
Those that are. 00:15:22
Of the most experts are can be there that's needed I mean I don't know why we wouldn't afford that to me to. 00:15:24
To be there if we have to go through protocol what they can and cannot do. 00:15:31
Obviously, I don't think. 00:15:34
If they are crossing the line of asking things for staff, that would be inappropriate but. 00:15:36
Almost all of that's been through me and it was very limited, so we can clean that up. I just don't want the. 00:15:41
Ability of saying. 00:15:47
We're not ever going to allow. 00:15:49
You know, advisors or citizens that are in the city to be involved in the process. I think that sends a bad message. 00:15:50
I appreciate that you're. 00:15:56
The city manager's role was to manage the time of staff and make sure that they have time to do their jobs and to carry out other 00:15:58
functions. 00:16:02
I think it's within his right to push back if he feels like meetings are. 00:16:06
Consuming too much time or not happening in the proper order? I'm happy to advise you. 00:16:11
On kind of an issue by issue basis of. 00:16:16
What you can and cannot share. 00:16:18
You can liaise with whoever you'd like to inform your judgment before you come to council meetings and vote. 00:16:20
That's different from. 00:16:27
Demanding that citizens or that non council members or non employees be. 00:16:30
Permitted to participate in meetings and have free access to information. 00:16:36
I think one of the things that we should address in this is that. 00:16:41
Well, that's the auditor may have mentioned that they needed to be deputized the. 00:16:45
I think the discussion was that. 00:16:49
We were unable to just deputize your specific group. 00:16:52
And that if it if we wanted to create something that would need to go through the formal process. So if that's something the 00:16:57
council wants to address, I'm happy to. 00:17:01
Bring that one one more sudden. 00:17:05
Footnote I should have to this is that the auditor does have a risk assessment and I'm familiar with that. And one of the things 00:17:07
they will look at on the risk assessment is whether you have a quote. 00:17:12
Audit Committee. 00:17:17
I don't equate the audit committee with the function that you've had this. 00:17:18
Citizen group performing typically an audit committee is a subset. 00:17:23
Of the City Council with either staff or. 00:17:27
Contracted auditor. 00:17:31
That can inform. 00:17:33
Financial decisions. Financial protocols. 00:17:34
And that is something they consider when they look at the risk assessment. 00:17:37
I would, I would agree with that. I would just say that the the state auditor was very clear that I can choose. I mean, it would 00:17:42
be very strange, Mayor, Madam Mayor, for you to pick. 00:17:47
Who does or does not advise me, right? 00:17:53
He was very clear that I get to pick No, absolutely. I don't think that's. 00:17:56
Let me clarify for you so you know. 00:18:00
And then you can tell me if this is wrong. You could pick whoever you want. If you wanted the council to deputize them, it would 00:18:02
go through a formal process. 00:18:07
Where it would be a committee for the whole city. If it's just a group advising you, we wouldn't deputize them. Yeah, I think 00:18:11
we're talking about two different things. Yeah, if it was going to be an official city committee. 00:18:16
I understand that that would definitely be a deputization. 00:18:21
Of that, we're not discussing that. What we're discussing is is. 00:18:25
This committee simply got together and got past documents of all of the past budget. 00:18:28
And did an audit of last year's versus this year. So it's definitely an auditing. 00:18:34
Exactly what went, you know what, what went on and we found a lot of disparities of. 00:18:39
And because of their expertise, some of these people have been going to meetings for 8-9 years. 00:18:45
Religiously and so. 00:18:50
Having the experts in the room is is something that I would definitely safeguard to have. 00:18:52
Yeah, I seem to be right. We were talking about two different things. I just wanted to make clear that if the auditor wanted us to 00:18:59
deputize something, we'd have to go through a formal process. And you're more than welcome to bring on any advisors that you want 00:19:03
to keep with time I'm going to have. 00:19:08
The rest of the City Council share their. 00:19:14
One minute is all you have briefing on your reports and then we can close so that we can start the next meeting on time. 00:19:17
I I just. 00:19:36
I just wanted to say that. 00:19:36
In regards to the conversation we've just had. 00:19:40
I feel like. 00:19:43
Umm, when we all agreed. 00:19:44
That that Christie. We all voted that Christie was. 00:19:47
The right person for the job. 00:19:50
And I, I just want to say again, I feel like she's the right person for the job. 00:19:52
We've come in many, many times. 00:19:56
And she's been so patient and every question I've had for her. 00:20:00
I've yeah gone through item by item and I've requested. 00:20:03
Different summaries of cuts that have been made and. 00:20:09
And things that I know take her extra time, but everything I've asked her to do, she's done. 00:20:14
And she's answered all of my questions. 00:20:18
And reasonable responses. So to me I feel like. 00:20:20
I feel like staff is doing a really good job and they've been completely open and completely transparent. 00:20:25
And I I really appreciate it. 00:20:31
So thank you. 00:20:33
Marty. 00:20:34
We were I was able to meet with the flagship from Woodbury Flagboro coordination meeting. 00:20:40
And Huntsman Cancer Institute. 00:20:47
There's just a lot of conversation and discussion on design and layout and progress. We did have the grocery store and the 00:20:51
Firehouse on the planning. 00:20:55
Commission meeting and that was exciting. It'll be coming back next week for more details, specifically we're talking about. 00:21:00
The grocery store on that one. 00:21:08
And there is some discussion about the drive through. 00:21:10
Pharmacy at the grocery store that the city will need to change some. 00:21:13
A code ordinance. 00:21:18
So that we could allow that if the Council so chooses. 00:21:20
Marty, will that be on the next Planning Commission meeting as well? I believe so. 00:21:24
Can you? Can you repeat that? 00:21:30
This type of the text amendment would take longer that would neither reboot through the planning Commission's City Council a 00:21:34
couple months on that, but the actual site plan for the. 00:21:38
So. 00:21:44
So what it is? Is that our current. 00:21:46
I think you just said it, but our current code doesn't allow Dr. throughs. 00:21:49
In the downtown area for the grocery store specifically, I'm not sure how it all details. 00:21:52
But the. 00:21:58
They're going to approve the site or change the site plans that can start moving forward without delay and then we will be 00:22:00
responsible to change that so that if we desire to have a drive through with our new grocery store for the pharmacy, we can have 00:22:04
it. 00:22:09
Got it. 00:22:14
OK. And then the other thing is the. 00:22:15
And helping school district to have their truth in taxation meeting last night, they did approve. 00:22:18
A number I am still getting through that meeting. 00:22:24
As I work today. 00:22:27
From what I understand is it. 00:22:30
I hate seeing this on a recorded thing. 00:22:33
The person that reported back to me. 00:22:36
On the board said that it was a lower rate, but I'm trying to fully wrap my head around bond levies and everything that that 00:22:39
entails. 00:22:43
So I'm not going to commit an exact number for you because I feel like it might be unrepresentative and not representing 00:22:46
correctly. 00:22:50
But I highly encourage you to watch the recording for the school board. It's. 00:22:55
The work session makes it very long, so maybe multitask. 00:23:00
Great. Amber, did you have anything? Yes, my Commission is currently working on their bylaws and they did a review of Bike Month 00:23:03
which was in May. 00:23:07
And it was very successful and I'm excited to say they're already planning next year's and I think even better. 00:23:12
The library is also also working hard and I know they're getting their fall programming together, so keep your eye out for our 00:23:18
events like coding classes, science, and reading time. 00:23:23
And the community garden is growing, so take a moment to step step over by Gammon Park and check the vegetable. Stand and leave 00:23:29
veggies and take some. 00:23:33
Awesome, Jake, there is about 30 seconds or a minute left for you as well, so we'll get it just so if you get a minute in so. 00:23:38
I just additional. 00:23:47
Yeah, I just want to say thank you to Marty. 00:23:48
For her prayer of openness and listening, I thought it was great. 00:23:52
I also read. 00:23:57
Sarah's post on Facebook about. 00:24:00
Trying to understand the vision and I hope tonight's meeting is. 00:24:03
Challenging in terms of questioning, but also thinking. And then lastly, I think. 00:24:07
To echo Sarah's comments, Christy, what was wonderful in all of our meetings and we know we questioned a lot of things. 00:24:13
On a lot of things and she's just such a wonderful person and so. 00:24:19
I think as we go through this, let's not make sure we attack people, that we challenge different ideas and concepts as we come out 00:24:23
of it. 00:24:26
So I echo that too. 00:24:30
All right, this brings us into 9.1 our public hearing on. 00:24:33
Our certified tax rate. 00:24:38
Christy, our Finance director, will start out with a presentation to get us going on the public hearing. Yeah, is that right? 00:24:40
OK, let's go ahead and go into the public hearing. 00:24:48
I need a motion. 00:24:52
So moved first by Amber, can I get a second? 00:24:53
Second. Second by Marty. All in favor. 00:24:57
Hi, All right. We're now in a public hearing. 00:24:59
Mayor, can I note just for the record of the meeting that it is now 6:00 PM? The law requires us to hold these hearings after 6:00 00:25:03
PM, so I want to make sure that's noted. 00:25:07
Perfect. And it's exactly 6:00 PM. 00:25:11
Go ahead. Something is exact tonight. That's wonderful. 00:25:15
I think many of you, this is maybe your first truth in taxation hearing. I know it is for me. I know it is for several of the 00:25:20
council members, Jamie, maybe you're the only one that has been to these enough that you. 00:25:26
I really familiar with what goes on. 00:25:32
I wanted to take just a minute. 00:25:38
And talk about. 00:25:41
I think most of you are familiar with the budget. Many of you came to the open house that we had last week and asked very good 00:25:43
questions. 00:25:46
And so I'm not going to go through the budget thoroughly, but I did want to talk about what we are doing here tonight. 00:25:49
The county gives you a certified tax rate every year. 00:25:56
And if you determine that you need more revenue than that allows you, then you say no, we're going to do a truth in taxation 00:26:00
hearing and we need this, this dollar amount or this percent. 00:26:05
In order for our city to balance the budget. 00:26:10
And that is what is happening this year. 00:26:13
Vineyard has never done a truth in taxation hearing before to my knowledge. 00:26:16
So like I said, this is new for a lot of people. 00:26:19
The slide that you see up there is the certified tax rate from 2017 to 2023. 00:26:22
The rate that we are recommending for this year for 2024 is the same rate from 2019, it's .003369. 00:26:29
Just another slide to show you what's been happening with our tax rate versus inflation. I think everyone is very well aware of 00:26:41
what has been going on with inflation. 00:26:45
On this graph shows you how the tax rate has continued to decrease as inflation has continued to increase. 00:26:50
And so we have this large gap that we are now trying to correct some of that to bring our spending more in line with that. 00:26:57
If you're not aware. 00:27:06
For every dollar that you pay in property taxes, Vineyard City gets $0.30 of that. 00:27:08
58 cents goes to Alpine School District, 8 cents goes to Utah County and four cents goes to the Central Utah Water Conservancy 00:27:15
District. 00:27:19
So when we talk. 00:27:25
Property tax allocations. 00:27:27
On your property tax notices you will see. 00:27:29
That while vineyards percentage that we're asking is higher than Alpine school districts. 00:27:32
Alpine School District's dollars is actually more. 00:27:38
Because the rate that they get is higher. 00:27:42
So I just wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page and understanding that. 00:27:44
This slide describes the situation that we find ourselves in. 00:27:50
The first pie is our city budget. 00:27:54
And you can see that the police and fire take up a huge portion. 00:27:58
Of that city budget with parks, public works, that admin finance. 00:28:02
All of the other departments taking the remainder. Again, that's the pie on the left. 00:28:06
The pie on the right is what is required for our public safety budget. 00:28:11
And what you can see is the blue, that is how much of our budget. 00:28:17
Our property tax budget will cover public safety. 00:28:22
With the tax increase. 00:28:26
You'll see some examples down below that second pie chart. 00:28:28
I'm showing what will happen this year. We were able to send 83%. 00:28:31
Of our public safety using. 00:28:36
Sorry, last year. Thank you, Eric. 00:28:38
Flashed her with the property taxes for fiscal year 24. 00:28:40
With the tax rate adjustment that we have asked. 00:28:43
And the increases that have come to us, we are now only going to be sending 71%. 00:28:47
Of the public safety. 00:28:52
With that, with the tax rate that we've asked, if we do not do the tax rate adjustment, we are only funding 59%. 00:28:57
Of our public safety. 00:29:04
Now with that, I wanted to talk briefly about taxes. 00:29:05
Why? Because many questions many people have asked Why do property taxes have to pay for public safety? 00:29:10
And the answer is in short. 00:29:16
That property tax is the only stable revenue source that we have. 00:29:18
If there are slight changes in the Earth, there are changes in the economy, it's very slight changes in the property tax. 00:29:23
Versus an elastic revenue like sales tax? 00:29:30
As the economy grows and shrinks, so does your sales tax revenue. 00:29:33
So our goal is to. 00:29:38
To pay for as much of our public safety using our stable revenue source as possible. 00:29:40
And that's why we have asked for that. 00:29:46
Another. 00:29:49
Question that has come up quite a bit is comparing to other cities. 00:29:51
I'm going to show you an example here of why this can be misleading. 00:29:56
But I also want you to just vineyards different. 00:30:01
No other city is in our situation that has RDA the size that we do. 00:30:04
That is growing like we are. 00:30:09
You just it's really hard to compare to other cities because you're not talking apples to apples, you're talking apples and 00:30:12
oranges. 00:30:15
So, and this was just an example I wanted to show you. 00:30:19
So if I want you to look down at the bottom and see where Eagle Mountain is on their tax rate? 00:30:22
So if you went on Utah, our tax rates that you talk about, you would find this information. 00:30:28
And it would say that for 2023, Eagle Mountain's tax rate was .000524. 00:30:33
What? That doesn't tell you, though. 00:30:42
It did not take into account that Eagle Mountain contracts with the Utah Fire Authority for their fire, which is not included in 00:30:46
their property tax. 00:30:50
So if you take into account Utah fire authority. 00:30:55
And their tax rate, it puts them up there at #3 as you can see. 00:30:59
So again, this, you can't look at the raw rates and say, oh, we're comparing apples to apples because we're not. There are so many 00:31:03
little things like this. 00:31:07
That can get in the way and make things misleading. 00:31:12
Like I said, Vineyard is just different. We have different political climate, we have different goals we have. 00:31:17
Different amenities we. 00:31:23
Have a different desire for services, a level of service that we expect. 00:31:24
And so we really shouldn't compare ourselves to other cities. 00:31:28
I I wanted to just touch briefly on the RDA. A lot of people have said, does the RDA affect our what we bring in the property 00:31:35
taxes? 00:31:38
It does. 00:31:42
However. 00:31:44
This decision was made way before you and I. 00:31:45
It was voted on. 00:31:48
It was thought to be the right thing. 00:31:50
And we can disagree on whether it's successful or whether it's doing what we want it to do. 00:31:52
But the fact is it's here and we can't dissolve it. 00:31:58
And so until the RDA agreements end, we will have a higher property tax rate. 00:32:01
That is just. 00:32:06
That's the way it is. 00:32:07
So again, I ask you tonight as we talk about things that you keep in mind, the vineyard is unique. 00:32:09
We are different. There's no other city in the whole state of Utah that has an RDA that has 75% of the property. 00:32:14
Is within the RDA. 00:32:20
Umm, I just oh sorry, this I had this comparison, this just. 00:32:23
Goes to show you several examples of how. 00:32:28
This property tax rate could affect your home. 00:32:31
We did a home value of 330,000. 00:32:35
550,000 and 850,000. 00:32:39
And you can see the annual increase also broken up by month. 00:32:43
So. 00:32:47
It's just a few things to remember before I close. 00:32:50
There have been many months and hours, blood, sweat and tears. 00:32:52
Put into this budget by by council, by staff, by citizens who have been involved. And I just ask you to remember that as we are 00:32:57
making our comments tonight, because there has been a lot of work that has gone into this. 00:33:03
We are not a private entity, we are a government entity and as such our budget is different. 00:33:09
Government budgets are lean, so you can't go in and say it, we're going to cut. 00:33:15
Across the board. 00:33:20
A certain percentage because the budgets are already lean. 00:33:21
Lastly, I want to make sure that everyone is aware, we are aware that there are people and individuals and families that are on 00:33:27
fixed incomes. 00:33:31
And that if this becomes a burden, Utah County does offer a tax relief program for those that will be burdened by the tax 00:33:36
increase. So please keep that in mind. 00:33:41
We are aware that there are people that will need to take advantage of that. 00:33:47
Again, what are what our city pays on property taxes should in no way be decided based on what other cities pay. 00:33:53
We are definitely a unique city with our unique tax needs. 00:33:59
And so I feel that the question tonight is, are we going to fund the fire and police or not? 00:34:03
Thank you. 00:34:11
OK with that. 00:34:13
It is now your time, so please come to the podium, state your name, where you're from and what your comments or question. 00:34:15
And Tony will put your time limit up. Can you raise your hand if you're thinking you're going to make a comment? 00:34:24
Also, for anyone out in the hall, there's about a dozen seats in here. Please come in. 00:34:30
OK. Thank you. 00:34:36
Yeah, I'm going to put it up two minutes. 00:34:38
Go ahead. 00:34:44
If you have something that needs more than two minutes. 00:34:49
Just let me know I'm I'm just calculating to make sure the most voices and here get to speak. 00:34:53
All right. 00:34:59
Start with making a statement that we're under no illusion in the gallery here. 00:35:03
Did anything we said? This Pope of the Night is going to sway any of you? 00:35:08
For those that are here for the first time or don't come very often. 00:35:13
My daughters grew up with an Easy Bake oven. 00:35:17
And from my position as a citizen in Vineyard. 00:35:20
I want you to know that. 00:35:24
I'm fairly certain that the cake has been baked already and so whatever it is said here. 00:35:26
Is probably not going to have an impact. 00:35:31
Let me reassure you that. 00:35:35
On the chart that was up there, I looked at my house and. 00:35:36
The assessed value was like 365. 00:35:40
But the number that was shown there is almost three times that much as far as the taxes can come out of my inbound account every 00:35:43
month. So. 00:35:46
Just for information. 00:35:49
But the $19.00 isn't the problem, the problem is. 00:35:51
Is that? 00:35:55
We're rooted in our city government here. 00:35:57
With an element of distrust because things have always not, have not always been on the up and up. 00:36:00
I feel like there's been a. 00:36:06
A lot of misguided decisions made and I'm just going to focus on one. 00:36:09
A brand new $50 million City Hall. 00:36:14
About two months ago, a group of a small group of U.S. citizens went to Saratoga Springs. We met with the city manager. 00:36:19
We met with a council member. 00:36:25
And another department head and the city manager took great pains to help us understand their history. 00:36:27
They took over 19 years to get to the position where they could build a $50 million City Hall. 00:36:33
Umm. Here's what they have to work with though. 00:36:39
They have a large portion of that money, that 50 million, already in the bank. 00:36:44
They have a substantial tax base that draws from Costco, Walmart, Target and many others, and their property taxes are drawn on 00:36:50
60,000 residents. 00:36:55
Now we come to Vineyard topped off Megaplex 14,000 residents and we still want the 30 to $50,000 or $50 million. 00:37:01
City Hall and we have a whopping $2,000,000 set aside to start doing the plan work for it. 00:37:10
This is almost a direct quote from the city manager from Saratoga Springs. 00:37:16
He says. My question to you is. 00:37:21
Understanding where you are and where we are. 00:37:23
Why are you even considering? 00:37:26
Building this City Hall. 00:37:28
We didn't have an answer. 00:37:31
So my suggestion is that we've got two $2,000,000 set aside. 00:37:33
That's RDA. 00:37:38
If that's a structure above ground, is not under the ground. 00:37:40
That money could be moved over and paid for our. 00:37:44
Firehouse. 00:37:47
That could potentially free up money to pay for other things. It probably could help us balance our budget without going to the 00:37:49
citizens. 00:37:52
Now, to me, this is the epitome of a misguided decision. 00:37:56
So I leave that with you for consideration. Thank you. 00:37:59
Mayor Fulmer and members of the City Council. My name is Brent Gray and. 00:38:08
Well, I'm the youngest president. 00:38:12
Every 55 plus community and vineyard. 00:38:14
My parents have done a really good job in raising me and teaching me how to be independent and. 00:38:17
For those of you who don't know, I have full spectrum autism. I am on 4 psychotropic medications. 00:38:23
Among Medicare and Medicaid. 00:38:28
Pretty much I am got to experiment gone wrong. 00:38:30
The state of. 00:38:33
Someday, when my parents are no longer here. 00:38:35
The house that they have paid for. 00:38:37
Will someday be mine. 00:38:38
The state of Utah. 00:38:40
Utah County. 00:38:42
Alpine School District in Vineyard City. 00:38:43
Need to help not only me. 00:38:46
But the citizens of our community who are on low and fixed incomes. 00:38:48
It has become very clear to me. 00:38:53
That the state legislature and Utah County. 00:38:55
Have worked together. 00:38:58
To increase our property taxes. 00:39:00
I make $15,000 a year. 00:39:03
Our property taxes at this rate. 00:39:07
Vineyard passes this. 00:39:09
There's going to be $4000 per year. 00:39:11
Can someone tell me? 00:39:15
Fell increase in the How? Increasing our property valuation. 00:39:17
Puts food on our table. 00:39:21
When my parents are gone, how am I supposed to live on 15,000 a year and pay for this increased property value? 00:39:23
And you're also telling me? 00:39:32
The county, the state is telling me that I have to pay 100%. 00:39:33
Of my Social Security income. 00:39:37
On property taxes. 00:39:39
In 1776. 00:39:41
Citizens through tea in the Boston Harbor for less deception than that. 00:39:43
Supposedly, we have one of the lowest state income tax rates in the country. 00:39:48
That may be true, but folks, we pay a heck of a lot more in property taxes as a result of that cut. 00:39:53
Finger pointing and accusation need to stop. 00:39:59
On the part of the state. 00:40:02
The county, the school board and the city. 00:40:04
I believe that Vineyard needs to help us reduce and remove. 00:40:08
Property taxes for the disabled and senior citizens on a fixed income. 00:40:11
Instead of proposing a tax increase. 00:40:16
Even though the excuses made that we should not be discriminating against specific groups. 00:40:19
I want to also address a comment that was made earlier respectfully by the the finance manager here in Vineyard. 00:40:26
Utah County makes 0 exceptions for people with disabilities. You have to have served in the military. 00:40:32
Become an injured vet. 00:40:38
An active member be over the age of 66. 00:40:39
Or a surviving spouse to get any type of property tax relief. 00:40:42
That is discrimination at its finest. 00:40:47
While I have been told that vineyard property taxes have increased. 00:40:51
Have not increased. 00:40:55
They have gone up every year since 2014, with all due respect. 00:40:57
In 2014 they were at $600.00 per year. 00:41:02
At this year alone. 00:41:05
They're increasing the $3700. 00:41:07
To say that Vineyard City's property taxes have not increased. 00:41:12
Again, there, with all due respect, is misleading. 00:41:15
My study of history has taught me that we the people. 00:41:19
Created the government. 00:41:22
Not the government created the people. 00:41:24
I asked Vineyard to please listen to We the People. 00:41:27
Thank you. 00:41:30
Thank you. 00:41:31
Terry Ewing. 00:41:39
Sorry. 00:41:41
Resident of Villas. 00:41:42
I worked for American Express, Toyota and Honeywell Aerospace and never did we approach a time when the financial outlook was a 00:41:44
concern. 00:41:47
That we didn't hear about it first. 00:41:51
They held global meetings early in the fiscal year to show. 00:41:53
The economy was impacting us. 00:42:00
How about about the shortfall and what was constituting that? And about future outlook? 00:42:02
And then they told us what they were going to do about it. 00:42:08
They would announce. 00:42:11
Any or all of the following. 00:42:13
There's going to be a freeze on hiring. That meant new hires or backfills or somebody dies. 00:42:15
Freeze on travel. 00:42:21
None. There would be no bonuses for that year. 00:42:22
No new projects could be made unless first approved. 00:42:25
Suppliers were being asked. 00:42:29
Cost cuts and there were other things as well. 00:42:31
And all of this was done so that they could would never have to ask their people, the employees, to take salary cuts. 00:42:33
During the last nine months that I've been attending these meetings, I have heard none of this. 00:42:41
I didn't even hear the words Bond writing until two weeks ago. 00:42:46
Yet it's just OK to ask your citizens during this horrible economic crisis when prices for everything are going through the roof. 00:42:49
To come out of their pockets first. 00:42:56
And they don't even know. 00:42:59
What you're doing with their money? 00:43:01
Citizens have an absolute and fundamental right to transparency. 00:43:03
According to Google. 00:43:08
And I quote. 00:43:09
Organizations with poor governance often lack transparency in their decision making processes by national reporting and 00:43:11
communication with stakeholders. 00:43:15
Let's not be that organization. 00:43:20
Your citizens are the stakeholders. 00:43:23
And when your stakeholders volunteer their time. 00:43:27
To assist in finding ways to cut spending and get pushed to the side. 00:43:30
They should at least have the courtesy of being heard. 00:43:35
We have spent millions of dollars for beautiful renderings of a city that we won't see for years. 00:43:38
We can't afford a permanent fire station, let alone a City Hall. 00:43:44
Everything is contingent upon something else happening first. 00:43:48
We have enough beautiful renderings. We have enough had enough planning. 00:43:52
The only plans we need now is how to bring revenue to this city. 00:43:56
And let's buy American first. We don't need to sell our souls to any foreign countries. 00:44:00
And if some citizens need to give up? 00:44:05
Shade sales A few new trees or plants along Center St. overpass. 00:44:07
Or a temporary roundabout. So be it. 00:44:12
Daria Evans, been your resident. 00:44:27
Last week I wore my 20 year old dress. Tonight I'm wearing my 10 because I'm living within my means. 00:44:29
Tonight I come before you as a concerned citizen. I am not a member of any Vineyard political group. 00:44:38
I just want to make that. 00:44:45
Clear and Jake was very kind, saying I'm an expert. I've been attending City Council meetings since April of 2022. 00:44:47
David Laraine has been around a lot longer than I have, so he's the expert, not me. 00:44:55
But thank you for that, those kind words. 00:45:01
I'm here to share with you. 00:45:04
The people that live in my community. 00:45:06
And several of them are here tonight. It's so wonderful. 00:45:09
I felt like I needed to visit the members of my community. 137 signatures. 00:45:14
People in my community. 00:45:19
Are opposed to this tax increase. 00:45:21
And. 00:45:25
I'll tell you why, because many of them are on fixed incomes. 00:45:27
Like Brent was saying. 00:45:32
Some of these people may receive a COLA, a cost of living adjustment. 00:45:33
But certainly not 18.84%. That's rest would say. 00:45:38
And. 00:45:42
Some of the people, some people might think that. 00:45:45
10 to $18.00 increase. 00:45:48
A month is not that much, but it might be to those people of my community. 00:45:51
That dollar amount might be needed for prescriptions or other medical costs. 00:45:55
Food, utility bills, insurance and other such needs. 00:46:00
An 18.8 tax increase is becoming a burden that is getting too heavy for them to bear. 00:46:04
Myself. 00:46:11
These people enjoy living. 00:46:12
In our Oasis of a community, it's a beautiful community and we love it. 00:46:14
And we want to enjoy it for as long as we can. 00:46:19
I believe that we still can trim some of our budget. 00:46:23
Like a. 00:46:26
Terry suggested the shade sales. 00:46:27
Probably said never been approved if there wasn't money available. 00:46:30
And merit increases and COLA amounts should have been asked for before a vote was taken to approve. 00:46:33
I would like to know the dollar amount of the COLA increase and how much money was awarded for merit increases. 00:46:40
I'm sure the audience would like to also. 00:46:47
I would like to know who conducted the performance appraisals and how many employees received merit increases. 00:46:49
Please remember to be compassionate with aged because one day you will be aged too. 00:46:56
That's George Washington Carver. 00:47:02
Thank you very much. 00:47:04
You're welcome to take this. I won't. 00:47:05
Tony. 00:47:09
Tony. 00:47:11
Thank you very much. 00:47:14
Hi everybody, my name is Justin, I'm coming towards you before you today is a concerned being a resident. 00:47:28
So it's interesting to see a lot of the talk going around, umm. 00:47:34
And I will say before I start, I work in the healthcare industry and my heart goes out to those who are struggling with healthcare 00:47:37
costs especially. 00:47:41
Those were limited. 00:47:45
Repeat your last name. Oh, Justin Jones. Yeah, yeah. 00:47:46
Anyway, it's, it's, it's, it caused a lot of moral distress in the field. We're looking when we, when we ask people to do 00:47:49
something and they're like, I can't do that because it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, it's going to break the bank. You have to 00:47:53
dip into savings. 00:47:56
You know, it's, it's something where I did my medical training in Colorado and this was that was never a problem in Colorado. 00:48:00
There's a lot more investment in community and safety Nets and in programs like that. 00:48:05
And I honestly think, you know, talk to any of the bare bones. 00:48:09
You know, underfunded psychiatrists that they have to beg to work down here in Utah County, and they'll tell you the state needs 00:48:14
to invest more than that. And I think that would be a great starting point. That and the cost of living adjustments. 00:48:19
So people on fixed income and with disabilities, it's like, because I do think that they should have exceptions and there should 00:48:25
be cost of living adjustments. 00:48:29
I do. You know, it's interesting to see the talk going around about different tax increases. I saw the. 00:48:33
The spreadsheet posted about how. 00:48:39
Difference out of all the cities we pay the highest. 00:48:41
Tax rate of any. 00:48:44
But it's really cutting out an apple to Apple comparison. I mean, looking at how much we pay in taxes compared to Provo or how 00:48:45
much we pay in taxes compared to the other decades cities that have been for decades. 00:48:50
It's interesting to see. It's sort of like a 20 year old saying I'm saving more for retirement, yet I don't have as much for 00:48:56
retirement as my, you know, 40 year old sibling. 00:49:00
Well, obviously, because they haven't been spending as much. 00:49:04
So it's just interesting to me in 2024, it's that that in it. 00:49:08
That we have options to get a fire department. 00:49:12
To buff our Police Department to provide all these different city services and those people out there that would want to. 00:49:15
You know when people. 00:49:21
City Council members from both the old guard and the new guard who reviewed this and seen that. 00:49:22
It looks like we're managing funds quite well. 00:49:27
Why people would want to say? 00:49:29
Let's defend the police. Let's defend the fire department. 00:49:31
Just so we can save some money and I think. 00:49:34
I just want to correct the record. I don't think anyone council member has said to defund the police or fire. I think there's all 00:49:39
five of us for. I think what we're going to do during this week is we're going to wait until all the comments are done. 00:49:45
In our neighborhood. 00:49:54
Apologize. 00:49:58
I really just want to actually step up because I think we don't do that enough and and just say thank you to the members of the 00:50:00
council. 00:50:03
There's a lot of information sometimes that that goes on in social media, but it's not always correct. 00:50:07
There's a lot of talk about, you know, mistrust and there's a lot of talk about, you know, hidden things that we don't know about. 00:50:13
And I haven't found that to be the case. And I really just wanted to say thank you to everybody that I have reached out to ask 00:50:19
questions because they've always been answered and very promptly, whether it is from the City Council or whether it has been from 00:50:23
from employees that are absolutely just fantastic. 00:50:28
Christie is wonderful. She. 00:50:33
I was supposed to actually ask her some questions. She didn't even know what I was going to ask her, and she invited me to come in 00:50:36
so I could ask questions about budget and the Ledger. 00:50:40
And ask questions of our Solomon love. I've asked questions. Tony, thank you so much also. 00:50:44
And different people. And I just found the entire, you know. 00:50:48
City fantastic to reach out, you know to. 00:50:53
Precisely to answer my questions, we have the open house. I thought that was a very good and positive experience. I got a lot of 00:50:57
my questions answered. Again, thank you, Christia, for doing that. You've taught me quite a lot. 00:51:02
And the information is out there. I come to this City Council meetings and I find that, you know, if you want to know. 00:51:08
The information is out there. We just need to really be paying attention to what has been said to understand what the facts are 00:51:14
and we don't understand to reach out and ask the question. So thank you so much for doing that. 00:51:18
Thank you. 00:51:24
I I. 00:51:25
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:51:36
I think we can all agree that this is a sad day and none of us really want to be here. None of us want to be adversarial. 00:51:39
We love Vineyard. 00:51:46
We want to make vineyard work and we want to make us. 00:51:48
Able to work together. 00:51:51
As I think about. 00:51:55
It being a sad day, I asked myself, how did we get here? How did we get to this point? 00:51:57
And ever since I moved here almost three years ago. 00:52:02
I've heard nothing about this is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. 00:52:07
And I believe that. 00:52:11
But knowing that, I want to know where the plan was. 00:52:13
When we fail to plan, we plan to fail. 00:52:18
What I'll tell you. 00:52:21
What I see? 00:52:23
This city has done to plan for growth. 00:52:26
We have an amazing waterfront master plan. 00:52:29
Millions and millions of dollars will be required. 00:52:33
To complete what has already cost us thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to plan. 00:52:37
We have a downtown master plan that's beautiful. 00:52:45
But again, we're talking millions of dollars and years and years before we will see that to fruition. 00:52:49
We have a corridor master plan. 00:52:57
Again. 00:53:00
The same problem. Money, money, money. Will we ever see it then? 00:53:01
Now we're faced with meeting a fire station. 00:53:06
For $1,000,000 and we're having to go to the pockets of the Vineyard residents. 00:53:09
So as I. 00:53:14
Talk to people I've read and I've remembered from my past. 00:53:18
I thought does a vineyard have? 00:53:23
A public safety master plan. 00:53:26
And I have come to learn that we have a whole lot. 00:53:28
A very expensive extensive master plans of which I have copies if anybody wants to see them later. 00:53:33
But we do not have. 00:53:39
The most fundamental. 00:53:40
Public safety master plan That plan. 00:53:43
But have enabled us to go to the developers. 00:53:46
And to assess them. 00:53:50
A public safety fee. 00:53:52
We have assessed fees for other things, but an impact view for public safety. 00:53:55
I have been told. 00:54:00
Has not been one time that has not been collected. 00:54:01
From any of the developers here in this city and I have to say why? 00:54:05
That makes no sense. 00:54:09
When we knew that our growth. 00:54:11
Was going to be some of the fastest in the country. 00:54:14
I had a conversation today with the Fire Chief in arm. 00:54:17
Wonderful man and I think we are so blessed to have him working with us. 00:54:21
But he said with me some very important things and that was one of the ones he shared with me because I asked him about that from 00:54:26
my past. 00:54:30
And he said that Vineyard is the only city he is aware of. 00:54:34
In Utah County that does not have this. 00:54:38
Not been assessing. 00:54:40
Developers this. 00:54:42
B. He also shared with me that while we heard from Christy. 00:54:44
Whom I think is doing a dynamite job. 00:54:49
He said with me that we. 00:54:53
That the City of Orem is not financing the public safety at the amount of 80% or 73%. 00:54:55
They are financing it at 50% of the taxpayer money. 00:55:03
And even at that, he just went to a meeting in Sacramento where he was asking for a loan for additional public safety training. 00:55:07
And Orem's. 00:55:16
Bond rating was upgraded to an A+, AAA Plus. 00:55:17
So there. 00:55:23
Only able to fund their public safety. 00:55:25
At 50% of the property tax with property taxes and yet they were still upgraded and that's one of the things that I have heard. 00:55:29
As a scare tactic here. 00:55:38
That if we don't pass this, we will lose our bond rating. 00:55:40
So I would like clarification on that. I feel like I got it from. 00:55:44
Sergeant Sanderson or. 00:55:48
Chief Sanderson, I feel like I got that today. 00:55:50
But then I. 00:55:53
As I was researching. 00:55:55
Today on this master plan I came across an article. 00:55:57
That was in on June 29th. 00:56:01
That was in the Daily Herald. 00:56:04
Where our mayor could be quoted to say as the fiscal year resets this July. 00:56:06
Vineyard has announced a public safety master plan. 00:56:11
Economic development strategies. And then she goes on with other things. 00:56:15
That's the first I've heard that our mayor has announced a public safety plan. 00:56:20
Public safety master plan. 00:56:25
So I'm just concerned. I don't know. 00:56:27
That I get every truth every time I ask a question. 00:56:30
But I have this article as well if anyone would like to see it because. 00:56:35
I don't think that we are being totally transparent. Thank you. 00:56:39
Russell Evans resident. 00:56:57
Like to just address my wife did. She went and collected those 137 signatures almost. 00:56:59
All under 66. I think we're from the village. 00:57:04
We have 154 units in the villas. 00:57:07
She didn't obviously get to everyone, but she worked hard and often when she took half out at some of those signatures, some of 00:57:09
those people like to talk. 00:57:13
To her, but she did a whole lot of work for that. 00:57:17
And I also want to note that there was only one person who declined. 00:57:20
And it wasn't because they supported tax increases, because they said they didn't know enough about it. 00:57:24
To voice an opinion. 00:57:30
So I thought that is a. 00:57:32
Stellar information. 00:57:34
But. 00:57:36
And our property taxes are supposed to go up 25%. 00:57:39
$800.00 so. 00:57:43
My sister. 00:57:45
Is supposed to go up $1000. She also lives in the village. 00:57:46
And of course, not at all. That's trivial, Vineyard. 00:57:49
But these are just the. 00:57:54
Hard things to bear. We have a lot of widows in the villas. 00:57:56
I haven't counted them, but there's a lot. 00:57:59
And we're about to get another one. 00:58:02
Very, very soon likely. 00:58:04
And these these are hard things. 00:58:06
I also work for the government Department of Defense. 00:58:09
I know about waste. 00:58:13
Back in the 1980s. 00:58:14
You may have those of you around back then. You heard about the $400.00 hammer? 00:58:16
And as a contractor that was selling the government. 00:58:21
Regular hammers. 00:58:24
Because of the way they allocated their costing or priced at $400 each. 00:58:26
Yeah, that made that. That made the news. 00:58:30
And then I heard about this one guy that owed the IRS 1800 bucks. 00:58:32
So he sent him 5 hammers and told him to keep the change. 00:58:37
The point is. 00:58:44
There's things that can be cut. 00:58:45
There's waste. 00:58:47
We don't need a bunch of frills. 00:58:50
In fact, I'm not a film kind of guy. 00:58:52
But. 00:58:55
So I'm not saying we shouldn't increase, make some increase, but I'm not sure we need to do the full increase. Thank you. 00:58:57
Hi, I'm Natalie Harbin. I'm a Vineyard resident. And first of all, I just want to make a couple of statements. 00:59:11
And I am aware that this will be a challenge for those on a fixed income and I. 00:59:18
I'm grateful that there are some state programs and I hope that everyone that can takes them into those. And I think. 00:59:23
But there should possibly be some more to include more people. 00:59:28
But I just wanted to make the statement that I think our council and our mayor and the staff. 00:59:31
Are tasked with looking at. 00:59:37
What our city needs for longevity and for the long term. 00:59:39
So I just wanted to bring up a little kind of anecdote or a story. 00:59:43
A few years ago, a study was completed with. 00:59:46
Farmers and when they were in the season of planting and they didn't have very much, they were at a point of scarcity. 00:59:49
They were not able to make good long term decisions. 00:59:55
They were surprisingly. You think when it's tighter. 00:59:59
They would be able to. 01:00:02
Home reigns in and really hold it tightly and make great long term decisions for themselves, but they couldn't. 01:00:04
So those same farmers were revisited after a rich harvest and when they had. 01:00:10
Full pockets and full bellies, they were able to make really strong long term decisions. 01:00:15
So it just shows us that this scarcity mindset does bite into our ability to make clear decisions. 01:00:20
And so I'm grateful for the expertise of our council, of our mayor, of our staff. 01:00:25
To not limit scarcity and to pull above this and to make those long term decisions for us. 01:00:30
They will always impact. 01:00:35
That will impact all of us differently. 01:00:37
And I think. 01:00:39
I believe watching how this has been pursued and the time the efforts put into it, everyone of those outcomes and the pains that 01:00:41
we will all feel from this have been considered, but they're being looked at through the lens. 01:00:47
Of longevity, not a scarcity. So thanks for your work. 01:00:54
Mayor Council Atlanta David Larae. I'm a resident. 01:01:15
I find myself very conflicted. 01:01:22
I understand that. 01:01:24
Highest text. 01:01:26
Communities in the state. 01:01:28
And by all figures include those we saw tonight. 01:01:30
Seems so. I also understand that we have. 01:01:34
A lot of burdens in our city that don't contribute to our tax base. 01:01:37
All the UVU property, no property tax pay on that. 01:01:42
All the RDA property. 01:01:45
Not very much there yet and. 01:01:47
And frankly, if we keep building lots and lots of housing out there, there may not be much out there still. 01:01:50
Hopefully there'll be some businesses that can contribute at the full rate and so forth. 01:01:57
And hopefully that can happen soon. 01:02:02
We understand that we need fire and police protection. 01:02:05
Would like to see it happen. It seems to me that the Council could consider some creative. 01:02:09
Ways to fund those we understand also that there are. 01:02:14
Bonding considerations to be looked at. 01:02:18
It just seems that this is a time when everyone has to tighten their belts and. 01:02:21
It would seem appropriate for our City Council to consider more more means of doing that. 01:02:26
Varsity Budget. 01:02:31
If we can transfer some of the funds for our for the plan for. 01:02:32
City Hall and use those now and provide City Hall for a year or two. 01:02:38
And we're talking about 1020 years in the future anyway, right? So. 01:02:43
It seems to me we could put that off for a little bit of time and use that now when we have. 01:02:46
A need now. 01:02:51
We are hopeful that the future years will have more plenty and less scarcity. 01:02:53
And that will be able to, you know, to do some of the things we want to do. 01:02:58
But right now, necessities seem to be the things that need to be dealt with and. 01:03:02
And working on covering those things the best we can. 01:03:07
Creatively. 01:03:11
And still try to try to maintain all the financial obligations we have to maintain and also. 01:03:13
Keep our bond rating as it needs to be. We would appreciate that to happen, but. 01:03:19
But please consider all possibilities. 01:03:23
For providing tax relief to citizens. 01:03:26
Thank you. 01:03:30
I didn't think this would be such a sad meeting being here, but it kind of is. 01:03:45
I and I think it's really sad. 01:03:50
It really is a sad meeting. 01:03:53
I'm Keith Holdaway. 01:03:55
I. 01:03:58
As I've witnessed and listened and read and. 01:04:01
Ask questions over the last number of years. 01:04:05
I'm not surprised that it's come to this. 01:04:09
I think everything has led to it. 01:04:13
And and mostly because things haven't been out in the open. 01:04:15
There's so much that has been done behind closed doors. 01:04:21
That hasn't been open to the public. 01:04:25
We hear about things that have happened. 01:04:28
That's absolutely wrong. 01:04:30
That's absolutely wrong, and anybody who is a part of that ought to be embarrassed. 01:04:33
When I hear about. 01:04:38
When I hear about trips to other countries and. 01:04:41
Spending lots of money. 01:04:44
That we don't hear about before the trips. 01:04:46
And the goals of it. 01:04:49
We never heard a single word about that. 01:04:51
Why? 01:04:54
I'm embarrassed. 01:04:55
And I'm sad and I'm angry about it. 01:04:58
We should know what the goals of that we haven't even heard a report. 01:05:01
About what we learned and what we have implemented already from all those trips. 01:05:04
Expensive trips. 01:05:09
Nice trips staying in nice places. 01:05:11
Eat in the nice places. 01:05:14
And and henceforth we get this tax increase. 01:05:16
I'm really sad and I'm angry that we haven't heard a report. 01:05:20
We didn't hear a presentation about the trip in the beginning. 01:05:25
And and and and. 01:05:29
And we can talk about other issues, you know, there's lots of other issues. 01:05:31
We haven't heard about increase in pay of anybody. 01:05:36
It hasn't been made public as far as I know. 01:05:40
And, and I think it's sad. 01:05:44
I think we need to wind it down. 01:05:47
And we need to be open. 01:05:50
It's just frustrating to me. 01:05:53
And we have earned this position right now today. 01:05:55
And it's a sad day in Vineyard because. 01:06:00
When I was sitting on the council, we we didn't spend a dime before it was open meeting and everybody talked about it. 01:06:03
And happy the day that we get back to the olden days. 01:06:10
Thank you. 01:06:14
There, I wasn't going to speak. I have spoken 140 times before the Arizona State Legislature, twice before Congress. 01:06:24
I'm Randy Gray, the proud parent of Brent. 01:06:33
And I'm just. I'll be brief. 01:06:37
I think it's criminal. 01:06:42
That retired citizens and the disabled. 01:06:44
Have to for the second time. 01:06:49
Pay 100% taxes on their Social Security income. 01:06:52
That is double taxation. 01:06:57
And that has to stop. 01:07:00
And while we've heard some things here, I've done work in over 50 municipal governments across the country and many counties. 01:07:01
Say. 01:07:11
That if you're on a fixed income or you're on. 01:07:12
Medicare. 01:07:17
You. 01:07:20
Frozen at the cost of your purchase price on the home for county taxes. 01:07:21
That's another thing that should be considered. 01:07:28
So my query and my plea to all of you is we need your leadership. 01:07:31
We need you to help us, especially those who are on fixed income. 01:07:37
To do this and. 01:07:42
I want to acknowledge Marty, who has been now to at least twice. 01:07:45
To the. 01:07:50
Alpine School District boards. I was escorted out of the last meeting. 01:07:52
We had over 50 people who spoke negatively about this. 01:07:57
One person spoke in favor of a property tax increase, and she was a teacher in the system. 01:08:02
Umm, that has to stop. 01:08:10
People who are working and have the children should pay the property taxes. 01:08:13
Not my son, not people who have disabilities, and not seniors who are on fixed income. 01:08:20
I'll stop with that. Thank you. 01:08:26
Thank you. 01:08:28
Tim Blackburn, resident, vineyard. 01:08:34
I'm going to take just a little different approach to this this evening. 01:08:36
Talk about budgets and accountability and not so much the property increase. 01:08:40
I was an employee of the federal government for all my working life, 38 years. 01:08:46
And went through a lot of budget cuts. 01:08:52
It was mentioned briefly earlier this evening by another speaker. 01:08:56
Whenever there was a change of administration, almost every four years. 01:09:00
We would our travel would be restricted. 01:09:06
Our purchases would be restricted. We would have employment hires. There would be no merit increases. 01:09:08
And we went through that routinely. I was a much younger father, have a much younger family. 01:09:14
And we struggled. 01:09:18
But those were the cuts we had to make. 01:09:20
In order to live within budgets. 01:09:22
Rather than increasing budgets in order to. 01:09:25
To meet increasing costs. 01:09:29
So I don't know what all those areas are. I know contracts have already been signed for this coming year and we can't go back and 01:09:31
reduce some of those, but. 01:09:36
The other area I would like to briefly talk about is accountability. 01:09:40
I would hope that the City Council. 01:09:44
Would hold all of yourselves. 01:09:46
Accountable and the staff. 01:09:49
For any. 01:09:51
Monies that are spent, for instance, travel. 01:09:53
What is the benefit of the travel? 01:09:56
There should be reports given. There should be written reports and verbal reports given on the benefits of that travel, especially 01:09:58
if it's foreign travel. 01:10:03
What were the direct benefits to the City of Vineyard? 01:10:08
What are the direct benefits to the City of Vineyard? To have lobbyists? We're one of the few. 01:10:11
Cities in and Utah that have paid lobbyists. 01:10:16
What are the exact benefits that we get from the money spent? What do they do for us? Intangible results that you should be able 01:10:20
to understand. 01:10:25
And say they're really helping or not. 01:10:31
Surveys. We pay quite a bit right now for surveys. I've never seen the results of the survey. 01:10:34
In this community. 01:10:40
Whether they're done by professional company or in house. 01:10:41
You ought to have the results of those surveys and know how they're helping us. 01:10:45
There should be accountability for all of those money spent that you understand. 01:10:49
And then you're able to. 01:10:55
Tell the rest of the citizens, citizens of these benefits. Thank you. 01:10:57
Thank you. 01:11:02
Hello, my name is Kaden Roton. I'm a resident of the Cottonwoods. I wasn't planning on getting up tonight, but. 01:11:08
A lot of thoughts running through my mind as I have heard the comments and listened to the presentation by Christie. Thank you for 01:11:15
that. 01:11:18
I've been involved with the city for a while. I've served on the Bicycle Advisory Commission. I'm currently a member of the 01:11:22
Planning Commission. 01:11:26
Last year I ran for City Council and during that campaign I had an opportunity to. 01:11:30
Meet with a lot of residents I chatted with. 01:11:35
Hundreds of people that live here and listen to their concerns and. 01:11:38
One of the concerns that came up a lot in my conversations were public safety and fire and having. 01:11:43
Fire station. 01:11:50
Within the city limits. 01:11:51
And that was something that was. 01:11:53
A big part of my campaign, another part that I. 01:11:55
Was really trying to focus on was economic development when we talk about budgets, whether it's for a family or for a city. 01:11:58
There are certain things that are necessities in that. 01:12:04
You just simply can't cut, and I think public safety falls into that category. 01:12:09
And for me, I think that. 01:12:14
I was there when you guys voted for the Firehouse in my neighborhood actually. And. 01:12:19
I saw a lot of people. 01:12:23
Members of this council included touting that as a as a. 01:12:25
The win and we're excited about it and I agree. I think it. 01:12:28
Is a good thing for the city and something that. 01:12:31
That we need. 01:12:34
However. 01:12:35
I knew from talking with Orem Fire and with residents and people and city staff. 01:12:37
That that would come with an increase in cost for the city and. 01:12:42
I guess my plea to you is that you have the political will to follow through on the decision that you made when you voted for. 01:12:48
The fire station and four. 01:12:55
The public safety in the city. 01:12:59
And that you now take a concerted effort on. 01:13:00
Economic development and getting more. 01:13:05
Throw in the pie, making sure that we have. 01:13:08
Have a bigger tax base to be able to fund these things and and not fighting against growth. I was. 01:13:11
Kind of painted as the growth candidate in the campaign last year and. 01:13:17
It's a little ironic that a lot of the people that fought me on that got up in opposition of this tonight, so I just want to. 01:13:21
To say that. 01:13:28
I would love to see. 01:13:29
Economic development become a focus of this council and growing the. 01:13:31
For the city, thank you. 01:13:36
Thank you. 01:13:38
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. I live in the Preserve townhouse. 01:13:47
Neighborhood, whatever you call it. 01:13:52
I would ask that if we're in a situation where you're saying that you need to collect more property tax revenue from my property. 01:13:53
I'll believe you. I would ask that you consider. 01:14:02
Allowing greater flexibility to allow me to live more efficiently. And by that I mean. 01:14:05
Currently, the city regulates the townhouses can't build. 01:14:11
Basement apartments. 01:14:15
And the city regulates. 01:14:17
Pretty heavily. 01:14:19
Parking Minimum parking requirements. 01:14:20
And So what I'm asking for is to say. 01:14:24
There's space on the property that I would like to use. 01:14:27
More efficiently and I would love to. 01:14:30
Invest more heavily in my neighborhood and in return I would love to pay. 01:14:33
More taxes on that increased development. 01:14:38
On my property. I understand this isn't for everybody. 01:14:41
If the options are. 01:14:44
Pay more taxes anyway. That I think should be a viable option. 01:14:47
And especially if you're saying, well, your neighborhood is already built out. 01:14:51
It would negatively affect your neighbors in some way. 01:14:55
At least allow. 01:14:59
Greater flexibility in future development. 01:15:01
I know that parking is a hot topic. 01:15:04
And I know that everybody has their opinion about it. 01:15:06
But allowing people like myself to live more efficiency. 01:15:10
Efficiently like we want to. 01:15:14
Is very beneficial for everybody. 01:15:16
Especially people who don't want to live more efficiently. 01:15:19
Thank you. 01:15:22
We have. We're going to. 01:15:42
Yeah, come on, Can I? I don't see anybody else getting up. 01:15:44
Thank you, Mayor. I had to step outside and take a phone call and I hope I maybe I missed something, but I would just like to 01:15:53
clarify that I have not heard anyone say they are against the fire. 01:15:59
And the police safety? 01:16:04
We just want to review. 01:16:06
And make sure that there are no better ways to fund this and that there is no. 01:16:08
Better way to make this workable for this community. 01:16:14
And that our budget is as. 01:16:19
The city manager explained it in one of the emails as bare bones as it can get. 01:16:21
And I think he says it is now. 01:16:27
But as I already did the budget personally last night at home. 01:16:31
I have lots of questions still and this vote does not have to be taken for another two weeks. 01:16:35
But please understand I have not heard a single person say. 01:16:41
They are against the fire and. 01:16:45
Police safety, thank you. 01:16:48
Good evening. My name is Corey Toshier. 01:17:07
We just moved here from Burlington, Vt where residents are now. 01:17:09
And we live in the villas. 01:17:14
And I simply wanted to point out that. 01:17:15
Property taxes are an issue that you must be very, very careful about. 01:17:18
We lived in Burlington for 23 years. 01:17:23
When I settled and started there, a professor at the University of Vermont. 01:17:26
Our property taxes on our house. 01:17:30
Were $8000 a year. 01:17:32
By the time we left this past year. 01:17:35
They were $13,000 a year. 01:17:37
So you must be very cautious. 01:17:41
In using your property taxes. 01:17:43
Because in Vermont it was used as a way to. 01:17:45
Create and generate funds that because there were no huge industries, there were no resources that were. 01:17:48
Available for doing other than that. 01:17:54
So that's just my comments. Be cautious. 01:17:55
Thank you. 01:17:59
OK, it looks like there are no other comments so I am going to go out of a public hearing. I need a motion. 01:18:09
So move. Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second? 01:18:16
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. 01:18:19
Aye, aye, aye. All right. 01:18:22
Council, we can go ahead and discuss. I know many of you probably. 01:18:25
We want to address some of the comments and then start discussion. I believe I started with reports with Sarah SO. 01:18:30
If somebody else would like to well it was taken answer so somebody else would like to start first between Amber and Marty, OK, go 01:18:37
ahead Amber. I would actually like to know if we can make these truth and taxation. 01:18:44
Meetings are more routine thing. 01:18:51
As we're talking about, it's been over 20 years since we had a tax rate increase. And even if we don't make changes, I think you 01:18:53
would be beneficial for the citizens to be able to come into those routinely every year, every two years, understand what's going 01:18:58
on, share their input so that they don't feel blindsided by this. 01:19:04
Is that something that we could do or OK? 01:19:09
I do think it's important that we do this increase. I see the reasons for it, but I understand why it. 01:19:14
Why? It is stressful and I do hope that we can get opportunities for you to feel more involved along the way. 01:19:20
And have your voices heard. 01:19:26
All right. 01:19:30
I have kind of the group that we did. 01:19:36
I don't want to just talk about it actually. I would rather share my screen, slide my thoughts together. I don't know when the 01:19:39
great time to do that is. 01:19:43
Is that now? Or is this in a question answer? Because I'd like to share my thoughts using the screen. Should I stand up and use 01:19:49
that? 01:19:52
I don't know the best way to approach that, Eric. Or I can just share my screen by standing there. 01:19:58
Oh, I can just do it here. 01:20:04
So you can see my face. 01:20:08
I've loved all the comments for and again and I think those against helped educate us as well. 01:20:14
And I like the spirit. I know. It's a somber spirit, you know, It's a feeling. What do I? 01:20:20
Just turn it on. 01:20:25
Now activate. 01:20:28
In the bottom. 01:20:35
Share screen. 01:20:38
Share City Hall. 01:20:42
Or bulletin board. 01:20:45
Is that called? Is that called bulletin board? 01:20:50
Does that have an HDMI over there? 01:20:53
City Hall Chambers. 01:20:59
While we prepare for this. 01:21:03
I think it would be good to learn about Utah's tax law. 01:21:11
That is revenue neutral. 01:21:16
Christy, I don't know if you want to explain what it means to be revenue neutral and why we do it. 01:21:19
The last question, that or the last comment that came in talks about how property taxes just kept going higher and higher and 01:21:24
higher. 01:21:28
And I think it might be beneficial to learn about. 01:21:32
Being tax revenue neutral. 01:21:35
While it could be the case that people's property taxes have been increasing, the vineyard rate has been decreasing. 01:21:40
Because what the county auditor does when they set your rate. 01:21:47
Is they say what revenue did you use and need this here and what is the rate based on your value? 01:21:50
To get that same amount of revenue next year. 01:21:57
So as we grow. 01:21:59
The tax rate actually goes down and they say that it's revenue neutral because they set the goal is say 10 million. 01:22:01
If we have 10 million this year. 01:22:09
And we had 10 houses that were paying that. 01:22:11
Next year, if we have 12 houses that are paying 10 million, you can see that the rate would actually go down. 01:22:14
Is that what you were asking? Yeah. And so the overall idea is that. 01:22:20
If the entire taxing area increases in value by 10%, the tax rate. 01:22:25
Would decrease, which is what's happening. Sometimes you might find that your tax that you're having an increase when other 01:22:32
people's rates are going down. But for the city since 2017, the numbers are actually going down. Now Brent mentioned something 01:22:39
where our population was increasing, so we're collecting more as a city. 01:22:45
To take care of the needs of the residents that are moving in, but the tax rate itself is decreasing. 01:22:53
So if everybody's taxes or if everybody's. 01:22:58
Property goes up by 10%, then the tax rate goes down evenly. If say there's 10 houses that all went up and that's the full area 01:23:01
except for one house went up by 15%, they would see an increase above that flat 10% increase that everybody went up. 01:23:09
By if there was a house that went down by 5% or only went up by 5% and not 10%. 01:23:17
Then you would see them have a lower. 01:23:24
A value or a lower tax that they would pay? Does that make sense? Did I explain that well? 01:23:26
Yeah. And the only thing that I would add to that is that. 01:23:32
There are 5. 01:23:35
Taxing entities that have an impact on property tax. 01:23:36
It's the While Vineyard has not been increasing its property taxes for 22 years. 01:23:40
Central Utah Water. 01:23:47
They make an adjustment every year. 01:23:49
Alpine School District have made maybe 3 over that same period of time tax tax rate increases. 01:23:51
Utah County has made at least a couple tax rate adjustments. 01:23:58
And who am I forgetting? 01:24:03
Mosquito abatement. They're probably about the same every year, but but. 01:24:06
It's these. It's this variety of text. 01:24:10
Taxing entities. 01:24:12
That each independently can make an adjustment. 01:24:14
That you can see your tax year, your property tax rate or your property tax bill went up this year. 01:24:17
And you want to come attack Vineyard? 01:24:23
In 22 years, that has never been. 01:24:26
Making that adjustment to your tax bill. 01:24:29
It has been one of those other 5. 01:24:32
So this is the first year in 22 years that Vineyard City. 01:24:34
Is proactively looking at the tax rate and saying we need a little bit more this year. 01:24:38
And we're adjusting it back to that 2019 rate. 01:24:44
So that inflation that has. 01:24:47
Gotten out of control a little bit. 01:24:49
Doesn't have the same. 01:24:51
Crushing effect on our buying power. 01:24:53
And it brings us a little closer to being able to. 01:24:56
Cover those things that we need to. 01:24:59
This year and going forward. 01:25:01
I think another thing that would be helpful is that one of the comments that came up was the RDA and how we can offset costs to 01:25:03
our general fund with RDA dollars, but RDA dollars are specifically used for. 01:25:11
Limited purposes. 01:25:18
And those funds can't be utilized for certain things or to offset budgets. It's very specific things like cleanup. 01:25:20
And then certain economic opportunities. And I believe there's one more. 01:25:27
What's the infrastructure? So making sure that we're utilizing those dollars for the right things is is important as we have these 01:25:32
conversations. 01:25:36
Is there anything that overall we felt like needed to be discussed or do you guys want to discuss while they're getting ready? 01:25:42
Well, I just keep, I just keep hearing and since I've been here. 01:25:47
Asking lots and lots of questions, right? 01:25:52
Umm, and I keep hearing tonight, it's like then I keep hearing Vineyard how the higher tax rate. 01:25:55
Then lots of others, but it's been like that since most of before most of us moved here. 01:26:02
And it wasn't a problem until tonight. 01:26:06
So and and like Jayden said. 01:26:09
I During the campaign there was a huge heated argument all the time about. 01:26:12
Frustration and not having. 01:26:17
Our own fire station. 01:26:20
And um. 01:26:21
But I don't know if I'm supposed to use names but a little girl that taught my. 01:26:23
Daughters Sewing. 01:26:28
She had to sit and wait with a broken pelvic bone for over half an hour. 01:26:29
So so when I'm as a pain extra $18.00 a month. 01:26:35
So we can help. 01:26:39
Emergency services 2 minutes from my house. 01:26:40
To me. 01:26:43
There's a universal law called Fair Exchange. What am I giving and what am I getting back? 01:26:44
And if there's fair exchange? 01:26:49
Then I feel fine about it. If there's not fair exchange, Alpine School District might be a different discussion. 01:26:52
But uh. 01:26:57
But for me to have these services one minute 2 minutes from my house for $18.00 increase is fair exchange. 01:26:58
I have a good friend on the Alpine School District and she she asked me when I first got elected, she said. 01:27:11
Have you ever walked into a room and you just knew everybody hated your guts? And I was like, no. 01:27:17
No, I can't imagine that would ever happen. 01:27:21
And I kind of feel like that could happen tonight. 01:27:24
But but I'm gonna vote for the tax rate increase because when it comes down to it. 01:27:28
And one of you in the villas. 01:27:34
Are in need of those emergency services. 01:27:36
I'll know that my tax rate increase is supporting you. 01:27:39
So I just want you to know that. 01:27:43
It's not without thought. 01:27:45
They're asking, they're asking for half of what they actually need and we're hoping that economic economic development will cover 01:27:46
the rest next year. 01:27:50
So they've been very, very. 01:27:54
Small and they're asked. 01:27:58
And I feel like that needs to be taken into account. 01:28:00
Sorry, I can record that. 01:28:07
And I agree, I think you can listen to this argument and hear both sides and. 01:28:10
Come away from it differently and then? 01:28:17
You know, umm. 01:28:20
Not be villainized for hey I agree this or you know, king size candy bar or a regular size. 01:28:22
I think since we have such a good audience here today. 01:28:28
I want to describe. 01:28:31
A dire situation that our city is in based off of decisions that were made in 2011 prior to any of this council. 01:28:32
Was ever put in? 01:28:40
Which is the RDA. 01:28:42
The. 01:28:44
Was a shock to be able to have this city be able to exist. 01:28:45
It was a long shot to be able to do it. 01:28:50
When When? In 2011 it was put in. 01:28:53
Over half of our property, 49 point 1% was put into an RDA. 01:28:58
Half of that then froze. Those property taxes froze in 2011. I want to give you an example of my property at that time. 01:29:04
My property, oh, it's not showing up as a little bit lower, so I can't show it was about $800 in an open space property. And when 01:29:14
I say the RDA, what most people need to understand. 01:29:18
50% of the property I'm talking about is Jimmy the Steel. 01:29:24
Wetlands and everything, all the settling ponds and everything like that, OK. 01:29:27
We decided as a city school district. 01:29:32
Sewer and water. 01:29:37
To freeze half of our property and allow them to stay at a lower rate of 2011. 01:29:39
I gave the example of my house and the sides and I'll show it to you later. It's about $700. 01:29:47
When I build my house in 2024, it's like 4300. I think I have the exact right. 01:29:53
We did that in exchange. 01:30:00
So that they would be able to take that money and we would be able to go out and get economic development like a Costco, a Walmart 01:30:02
or something to be able to develop. 01:30:07
A massive tax base. 01:30:12
From 2011 until now, that tax base has not come to fruition. 01:30:14
It's very difficult to have somebody come to where there's a. 01:30:19
A dump, A power plant, A dirty leg. 01:30:23
And toxic property it's been. That's why they tried to get this to happen. 01:30:26
So that's very important and that bothers me because Utah City, all of those developers, their, this tax rate is not going to be 01:30:32
affecting any of their properties. 01:30:37
It's weighed heavily on me because of that. 01:30:43
They're freezed in at the 2011 rate. 01:30:45
Right, but we will only the other percentage. 01:30:48
Because of that, every year when our when our failure to be able to get sales tax hasn't happened, we've had to turn to the backs 01:30:52
of the citizens to increase their property taxes year over year. 01:30:58
That is why this is not an Apple's. 01:31:03
To Apple's comparison, because we're only. It's like, it's like fighting with one hand tied behind your back, Orem gets. 01:31:05
To do property taxes on 100% of their properties. 01:31:13
Half of them we do get, but they're only playing that produced rate, right? 01:31:18
And that's why we're at the 15. This is an example of an average. 01:31:24
That we used and it went up to 1800. 01:31:28
Every Yeah. Why did you say councilwoman's? 01:31:32
Just because that was that was an example of an average home that but but. 01:31:35
I just, I probably could have found great slides, but just that was the conversation of what an average home was. 01:31:40
Every year. 01:31:48
Since 2014, Vineyard has increased our property tax rate. You can see that on the left there. And then you can see the total 01:31:49
collector base. Our sales tax has gone up. 01:31:54
They go about $1,000,000. 01:31:59
600,000 a million. 01:32:01
Up every single year. 01:32:03
In total revenue that our city gets to go through and spend, right? 01:32:05
And I want to be very clear. 01:32:12
Because of that, many of the early. 01:32:14
People in Vineyard didn't put St. Lights didn't put. 01:32:17
Sidewalks into their roads because they do. They couldn't afford it to be able to have that type of thing. So when you drive down. 01:32:20
Ask you something, you said every year we increase their property taxes and their tax rate goes up or do you mean the total 01:32:28
revenue pie goes up every year? OK, great. 01:32:34
Well, it's actually not throat. Part of it is growth, but everyone's home values have gone up dramatically. Actually, just for the 01:32:41
record, my house value went down. 01:32:46
There is there is some bumps for one year to the next in your home. I just want to be specific. I think that I think that. 01:32:52
I'm gonna let you finish. I'm looking at her whole thing. 01:32:58
I just think the danger here and I'm maybe I'm a little impatient. I just want to understand. 01:33:01
Are you trying to like tell us to cancel the RDA or? 01:33:06
No, what what I think citizens need done, I'll get to it. I think it'll be very helpful to educate everybody. 01:33:10
I'll get, I promise. 01:33:16
Because of that, we get about $1,000,000 more a year. 01:33:19
But on total revenue? 01:33:22
But we are different. It is on the backs of our citizens. 01:33:25
Of our property taxes to be able to do that. 01:33:29
Our total revenue is 8.8 million last year, right? You guys can see that number right under the red. 01:33:32
Umm, question marks. 01:33:39
Our staff and I want to make sure that 'cause I, I have a question so that I can understand your side. So you're saying we're 01:33:44
different in that property taxes paid from the backs of our residents versus other citizens, other cities, other cities are half 01:33:50
the rate because they have a tax base. 01:33:56
Number one the vineyard does not have and the number 2. 01:34:03
Half of the properties are in the RDA, and they're frozen at a very low 2011 rate. 01:34:06
Due to the RDA. 01:34:14
OK. Thank you. 01:34:15
And so people need to understand that that that is a massive. 01:34:17
Arm behind your back, right? 01:34:20
The thing one thing I do want to collect on the record is, and I know Christy did a really, really good job, but I feel like this 01:34:23
slide is a little bit deceiving. 01:34:26
And at the beginning of the year, I know the staff and budget came together and I think this is a learning process. 01:34:30
And that we put together and we said we want to buy or spend $6 million more this coming year than last year. And. 01:34:36
I put into that. 01:34:44
Citizens put into the Council put into that. 01:34:45
And we just put it above what that is and what this graph that was at the open house was saying. We made this big. We added so 01:34:48
many more things. 01:34:52
Over $7,000,000 more. 01:34:57
And when I looked at it, I was like, how do you add $7,000,000 more of our total revenue is only 8 million? 01:35:00
Right. So what that graph is, is kind of misleading is, is that? 01:35:05
We put a wish list together of 7 million. 01:35:09
We. 01:35:12
We cut 76 million of it, but we still are increasing 1,000,000 and so. 01:35:13
It's kind of misleading in that it's. 01:35:18
We're not cutting, we're increasing. 01:35:20
Significantly, but I just wanted to point that out. 01:35:23
That when you say we're increasing significantly, can you tell me what you mean? I think that's well step. I think Christie's 01:35:26
already told you the revenue increases of what we are 600,000 or half a million. 01:35:32
In the revenue increase? 01:35:39
Yeah. So we're actually not cutting. I mean, we're cutting our wish list. It wasn't, which isn't really real money. It's just. 01:35:43
Things that we put together and said we wanted it, I don't think I understand that. Could you explain what he means? Public safety 01:35:52
itself increased 1.1 million, right? So we are asking for a tax rate that would give us 600,000 of that other 600 is from the fund 01:35:58
would be coming from other revenue sources other than property tax. 01:36:05
So I just want people to understand the difference between that because it's like. 01:36:13
We didn't spend $6 million last year. 01:36:17
More and this year in order to hit that, we cut 6,000,000 out of real spending last year that was just. 01:36:20
Proposed Hey, let's say you know these are some wish list things, right? They were proposed projects by City Council. 01:36:27
By staff members and yes, right, but like I said, we have not incurred. 01:36:35
We haven't put our spending past what we were bringing. We needed for the public safety, correct, Correct. Yeah, yeah. 01:36:40
I just, I had so many people call me and I rate like. 01:36:46
Hey, I didn't see 6 million from the previous budget and I'm like, I don't know that I just wanted to clear that out so. 01:36:50
But I also think that and I and. 01:36:57
I really hate the tone of cut. 01:37:02
Or fat or waste. 01:37:05
Because I've worked in government for 20 years and they really are people. So I get emotional about it because there's so many 01:37:07
great people in Vineyard City. 01:37:11
They they really are, you know, and so. 01:37:14
It's a, it's a dicey topic because there's some of our friends, right? But at the same rate when the down economy, you have to 01:37:17
figure things out, right? So. 01:37:21
But I want to go through like. 01:37:25
One of the things that I ran on or that I believe on the tax rate that I have issues with is, is that. 01:37:27
We have spent a lot of money on the corridor master plan or the lakefront master plan where it's like a dog park and they went in 01:37:34
and looked at that. 01:37:38
Half a million or. 01:37:43
A viewing structure or an all abilities part and so many people will ask me questions on. 01:37:45
In the city and be like when am I getting the all abilities park or when am I getting this? 01:37:51
And me knowing the finances for being here, I'm like. 01:37:56
Do you realize for 12 years we have saved for justice a $1.8 million fire station and that's it? And it will trigger anything 01:37:58
because the money just isn't there? 01:38:03
To be able to do it. 01:38:08
And if you look through the corridor master plan of like different promises. 01:38:10
A Community Center, and we're paying to design that. Or pickleball courts. 01:38:15
Or, and these are promises, can you tell me what you mean by promises? 01:38:19
Well, we've hired a consultant. We've gone out and asked them what you want to dream up in a city. 01:38:23
And then we presented it to. 01:38:29
Of here's a philosophical idea of this is what this is our plan and we've documented in the book of this is what we're going to be 01:38:31
doing. 01:38:35
And we haven't even like just like on a fire station. And that's what I'm saying is, is like. 01:38:39
Publicly, we're going out here and I'm going. We are one of the poorest cities due to our tax base. 01:38:44
And we're already twice as much in tax rate, but. 01:38:51
We're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in planning. 01:38:54
And dreaming. 01:38:58
And this is just the corridor project. 01:38:59
When you get into the master front, we are talking about building multi $1,000,000 Piers. We're talking about building restaurants 01:39:01
on them. 01:39:05
We just submitted this 90 days ago to the state. 01:39:08
And saying, hey, why don't we dredge the lake? I had somebody asked. It was like 13 million just to get to that. 01:39:12
And I wanted to show this. 01:39:18
I walked out there last year when I looked at it and I was like. 01:39:20
Do you realize the vineyard has no ability to be able to pay that? But yet we're dreaming and we're putting this into the paper. 01:39:23
And saying that this is going to happen. 01:39:29
And I'm being villainized by saying, guys. 01:39:31
This just isn't going to happen. We have to get a fire station, right? 01:39:34
And it was in the paper and I think. 01:39:38
I think Karen mentioned that of like. 01:39:40
You know, I'll have a resident call me saying we're building a helipad or even a City Hall. 01:39:44
You know, going and meeting with Orem and. 01:39:49
And all these entities that have these things. And I think, Sarah, you said that in your Facebook post of like. 01:39:51
We wanted, we want to dream up this big appetite. 01:39:57
And I agree with you, it's like we don't have that. 01:40:00
Ability to be able to do that right. 01:40:04
And what brought us to our knees is this fire station. And it's such a small house. It's only 1.8 million and only 6 dedicated 01:40:07
offices. And I'm grateful that all five of us aligned and say, hey, this is something that needs to get done. 01:40:13
But I was here in Vineyard when the 12th West Fire Station was brought forth many years ago, and it needed to happen. 01:40:21
And so my parents and my family. 01:40:28
Have built to which is awesome. 01:40:30
And I know we have a master plan that's going to come into that talking to the chief. 01:40:33
But the residents of Vineyard that are currently here right now. 01:40:37
We should be able to say that we have paid for our fire station now. 01:40:41
And we need to be putting an impact the ice. We spoke with them yesterday. 01:40:46
Of saying the residents of Utah city and those. 01:40:49
When they go through and do it, that that next fire station within them and all the public safety of that side of the city. 01:40:52
Will be paid for by them. 01:40:59
Because that's only proper. We can't put that on the backs and to have. 01:41:01
Again, I know you guys are. You think I'm villainizing Utah City and I'm not. 01:41:05
I just you get into the books and you go. It needs to be fair and so I hope in our discussion today. 01:41:09
That we go, hey, you know, this is this is what we can accomplish. Can I just say something? Yeah, Last year I noticed that in 01:41:17
council meeting and I look at all these master plans and all the money that was spent. 01:41:23
On master plans, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's ridiculous. Why do we spend that much? 01:41:29
I've since learned that it's actually really valuable. 01:41:33
We have that in the capital project, a public. 01:41:37
Safety master plan. 01:41:41
So, so there's things that we can do going forward. We're still. 01:41:43
Relatively new as far as governments go. 01:41:47
And I would hope that you guys would understand the fact that we've only had three mayor's and all of this is. 01:41:50
New, and there's going to be mistakes and there's going to be things that we do right. 01:41:57
And if we can be patient with each other and bring suggestions to the table. 01:42:01
I will tell you 100%. 01:42:05
The suggestions that I've made since I've been on the council have absolutely been considered. 01:42:07
To a point where it's actually been kind of surprising. I expected different. 01:42:13
And umm, so that is happening and master plans are. 01:42:17
Important because they help you know what you need to do moving forward. Well, and I'll lean into that just a second. 01:42:22
We did the master plan so that we can phase them because I think we cannot afford to do them all at once. But if you don't plan, 01:42:29
somebody said it, you plan to fail and so. 01:42:34
We are planning in order to phase in projects so that the quality of life of the residents will be meaningful. 01:42:40
OK. Can I add that if we would have done a safety master plan? 01:42:47
Eight years ago it would look very different than what it would look today or even six years ago. 01:42:53
Maybe 8:00 to 10:00, but what I'm I'm agreeing with Mayor Farmer and we have done a lot of different studies that have allowed us 01:42:59
to keep charging these impact fees and this one. 01:43:04
Has been in conversation and is already being planned for. 01:43:09
And I'm excited and grateful that we can have it. 01:43:14
But I'm actually really grateful that it hasn't been accomplished yet, because I want to make sure that we are able to charge 01:43:17
developers exactly what we should be charging them through a current study of what our current layout is. 01:43:23
And then we're going to grow and have to amend and adjust as we get bigger to make sure that we're still getting all those fees 01:43:29
from. 01:43:33
And impact fees as well. 01:43:36
It's better if they're staggered, it's better if we are able to. 01:43:39
It's very important to have these studies and it's very hard to watch. 01:43:46
And hear people say plan, but then I also don't want to spend money on studies or plans. I don't think I'm saying studies, I'm 01:43:50
saying that. 01:43:55
Percent agree with that, but what your logic is is that. 01:44:06
You can always adjust the public safety master plan year to year and do a small little study and say hey this isn't high enough 01:44:09
but Can you imagine doing all? 01:44:13
All of the studies that we want all at once. Our budget. We would have had to raise taxes 8 years ago. 01:44:17
No, I I like because these studies are like, I think we budgeted 75,000 for this. 01:44:22
Public safety master plan to do I don't know how many impact few categories that are. 01:44:28
But I imagine it's close to half a dozen. 01:44:34
To do all of those studies at once would have been a huge right, but. 01:44:36
Burden, let me finish. 01:44:41
A huge burden on the residents. 01:44:43
Earlier And yes, of course we need it now. And I'm not looking to criticize the previous council. Maybe they should have done it 01:44:46
four years ago. 01:44:50
But I'm not looking to criticize the past. I'm looking to move forward. 01:44:54
And get these things accomplished now. Well, and I agree with that. 01:44:57
What I would just say is that. 01:45:03
When looking at any of these plans, and I printed off quite a few different books, I want you to look through them of like the 01:45:06
Abraham and a skate park we paid a. 01:45:09
A skate park person. I met him in the Idaho Association Cities event. He goes, oh, I planned a skate park in your hook. 01:45:13
And I was like, oh, and everything was 10 like 5 to 15,000. I was like. 01:45:22
And then just the planet, right? And then it was like. 01:45:27
How much was it to build it? And I'm like, we don't. 01:45:30
So what I'm saying is, is that we don't know where we're going and yet we're. 01:45:33
We're paying just these plans. 01:45:37
To dredge the lake and go through and do it. 01:45:40
Where we do not have the tax base and our focus as a city has to stop all of this and we have to. And to Natalie Harbin's point. 01:45:43
We have to go. When I met with her it was like tax based economic development businesses we have to get back to. 01:45:51
Be able to go through and all of these other things. There's an aft. It's like a chicken before we have to. 01:45:59
Get that tax base first and foremost. 01:46:06
Before we because I get so many citizens saying this is all that is happening. 01:46:09
And I go, we have $8 million in our total budget. This is never going to happen. And I don't want to be the mean negative angry on 01:46:15
Facebook like. 01:46:19
You know, but I'm the realist of it of like what it is, right. So and then just in closing, like. 01:46:23
We need just like we're doing the fire station before we go and pay. 01:46:29
I'll bet you we've got millions of dollars in planning of ideas that we could never do just. 01:46:34
And what we need as a council to. 01:46:41
Umm, nothing will ever be. 01:46:46
Started to pay a consultant. 01:46:48
Until we come before the residents and say, hey, this is what we're going to do because. 01:46:51
Some of these things, that's just. 01:46:56
This isn't gonna happen. 01:46:58
My last that is, that is the process though, like to do a plan, we vote on it together. So I really want to commend you for being 01:47:00
concerned about what plans we're doing. And that's why you're here on the council. If plans come up and if they're on the budget 01:47:07
and you don't agree with them, you have said and if, if all of us agree, then we even if we disagree, we all talk it out. 01:47:14
And so we all agree that the public safety master planner impact fees to be done, though there's also a Parks and Rec study, I 01:47:21
believe. Is that what it's called? 01:47:25
That that's being done because that could possibly be an impact fee that we could also add to it. 01:47:30
And so there's a lot of plans, but you're talking about plans that were already done. 01:47:35
Which you can have an opinion on that and not agree with previous councils. 01:47:40
But you were elected and you can change that. And just, I think just talking about it in general. 01:47:44
It doesn't feel productive. Let's talk about plans that are currently on this current budget and then we can decide and I'll get 01:47:51
to the current thing, but I just want to change the culture within our city and educate because from this chair. 01:47:59
No one ever helped citizens understand the dire situation and if it continues to grow next year it is going to be. 01:48:06
Another attack, Property tax grace. Another property on the backs of our citizens. 01:48:15
And we're going to be continually throwing up these maps of this is coming and this is coming in. 01:48:19
We just need to be realistic, so I agree with you on that. 01:48:25
Can I say two things? First of all, I don't think it's appropriate for council members to talk about people in the audience. 01:48:28
And clean. They know their viewpoints or groups or viewpoints. 01:48:35
Oh, I was just saying she was wonderful and saying I needed to focus on economic development. These master plans are the. 01:48:39
One of the best ways we have to get citizen involvement. They're the ones that bring the people together and let them give that 01:48:46
feedback and help us understand. 01:48:49
Right. I think the analysis though is that I was raised as a dirt poor farmer and when you go and you know, we didn't even have a 01:48:53
car, right, Dad? 01:48:58
And uh. 01:49:03
When you go out and ask citizens what they want, thinking that they can go and afford the world like we're going to go to Italy, 01:49:04
it's just not in the car. 01:49:08
For financially of what Vineyard could ever afford because we don't have the tax base and you have to tell people. 01:49:12
That that's what it is. And so we have. 01:49:18
Now we can all come together and that's why I said when our offering and retreat in February was. 01:49:21
We all better be meeting right now weekly. 01:49:29
With the RDA, we should be putting a citizen council together. 01:49:32
I would love those that ran against her different ideas to come through and say how do we get a Costco? How do we get it so we can 01:49:36
go through and do that. That should be all of our focus. 01:49:41
Within the city. Bueller Go. 01:49:46
I understand that the dream to be able to draft all of these things up and but in this budget we last year we just added another 01:49:48
planner to plan, right. 01:49:52
And so we're going to be doing more plants to plan planting and I looked at the budget and I go, I don't see it so. 01:49:57
Did you have another slide? 01:50:03
Yeah, what I was just gonna end with and it's not a slide, but it's. 01:50:04
Just learning and I and I and I echo your feelings, Marty, where you go? Hey, I'm not here to. 01:50:09
You know, what can this current council do? And we just can't bash the previous council and that's not what we're here today. But. 01:50:15
I'm a history person like no other, and you're gonna repeat it if you if you don't learn from it. 01:50:22
And in October or November last year. 01:50:29
Where we were like. 01:50:32
Survey Software 87,000. 01:50:33
Or Sage Consulting, our lobbyists or World Trade Center. 01:50:36
Or X Factor. Those are all baked in. 01:50:39
But if we would have known or understood or been more transparent, people would have sounded the alarm and we would have known. So 01:50:43
like putting things in place where people know much more above and beyond, we wouldn't be in that place. 01:50:49
Now this year. 01:50:55
I'm not going to call the Budget Committee, but the citizens that advise me now. 01:50:57
I just want to say thank you for all of them that put that effort in. 01:51:02
And it is difficult, but #1 cutting our increase as a City Council, we don't need to get paid more. 01:51:05
The Planning Commission isn't paid. The bike Commission isn't. 01:51:13
The merit, the I I believe the merit increases for the time being and also out of state travel. 01:51:17
Could be cut for a year. 01:51:24
Also in meeting with Orem. 01:51:26
And there is some debate on is this City Hall going to be 30 million or 50 or 20? 01:51:29
We've learned through this whole exercise that even a $1.8 million City Hall is just breaking our community in terms of finances. 01:51:34
So how does it 10? 01:51:38
And you could leverage it. You could go and say, hey, we're going to put all of our tips in the back. And every single city 01:51:43
manager said, I can't even believe that you're talking about this. It would break your city. 01:51:48
So taking that and we asked or submitted. 01:51:53
To Eric and said, hey, can we take that? City Hall $2,000,000? 01:51:58
It is already a money. 01:52:02
The RDA money has been used outside of the RDA on Hold Waste Rd. sewer it's been used on. 01:52:04
Forum Centre St. Overpass, half of it. 01:52:11
So, legally, can we? 01:52:13
I think it's called define that is infrastructure to move that City Hall since. 01:52:16
We know over 5810 years away from affording a City Hall. 01:52:22
To not plan for it. 01:52:27
Right now and and do that on the City Hall and then. 01:52:30
The other thing I think is the culture needs to change is I've never driven a car. 01:52:35
Our truck. 01:52:38
With less than 75,000 miles and I think it it, you know, I think. 01:52:41
It's a good standard that we get brand new cars every three years. 01:52:46
And I know over a three-year period it makes sense. 01:52:50
You know what? 01:52:54
Some of the best people I know drive cars 1015 years and they drive it till they're older and some of those cars. 01:52:55
Our F-350 S and. 01:53:01
There's things that we can do to extend those cars. 01:53:03
Be able to go through that. So those are those are the things that. 01:53:06
I think that we could cut. 01:53:09
And then I would just ask for those that met with me, were there any other cuts that I was meeting that we met with that I need to 01:53:11
cover? 01:53:14
OK, so those are those are things and we. 01:53:18
Wholeheartedly support the fire increases and everything if we could cut those things. 01:53:22
But also, just as a council, learn. 01:53:26
Of our of our dire situation. 01:53:28
And talk about it as in our dire situation, I think we'll all get, we'll all move forward and. 01:53:31
I think this is a forgiving. 01:53:37
Community. 01:53:39
I think sometimes we frame, screen frame so we can be heard and I appreciate extending the offer to you guys on some cuts. 01:53:41
Have you been in any of the meetings regarding City Hall and the partnerships around that and sort of the trajectory? Yeah. I 01:53:48
mean, I, I went to Saratoga Springs and Orem and I got the general overlook. 01:53:54
No, OK. And it's not something. 01:54:01
If you want to come and talk to me, I met with NASIM and we went over the leasing option and it ends up actually costing the city 01:54:05
almost nothing. 01:54:09
So I'm happy to go over that with you too. 01:54:12
The money, the equation is based over a three-year period, as if we wanted to get new cars every 3 to 5, right? 01:54:14
10 year periods releasing those cars for 10, that's not what the contract said that I saw is over three right in the same. 01:54:22
The assessment for cost. The cost benefit analysis of leasing versus purchasing. 01:54:29
Is based on a 10 year span. 01:54:35
And they compare the cost of purchasing cars over that 10 year span. 01:54:37
Versus leasing on a three-year lease? 01:54:42
To own. 01:54:45
And the the the the analysis comes back with the lease option being the least expensive option for the city. 01:54:46
And so when you compare purchasing and keeping long term. 01:54:54
Versus leasing and keeping them for that three-year window? 01:54:58
If you can. 01:55:01
If it costs less to lease and keep them for a three-year. 01:55:02
Versus purchasing and keeping them for longer term? 01:55:06
The wisest choice, in our opinion, is to go with the cost that is less. 01:55:10
I'd love to sit down and see the numbers. We cracked it. 01:55:15
Umm, you know, I've sold at auction vehicles for 17 years with the public group. 01:55:18
And the numbers that we ran on the analysis didn't show up, but I'm more than willing to sit down and go over those and. 01:55:24
OK, great. OK, Marty. 01:55:31
Go ahead. OK. 01:55:34
There are several points. 01:55:37
Throughout this meeting and. 01:55:39
Hopefully I don't miss any of the ones that I really have knowledge and ability to respond to. 01:55:43
This budget and the tax amendment and. 01:55:50
Or the budget specifically we've been working on for quite some time. 01:55:55
And I want you all to know that it is something I think at this point with this tax increase and with our budget. 01:55:59
I didn't write it down, but I think I'm at at least 100 hours of examining everything, meeting with different people, talking to 01:56:06
different residents. 01:56:10
And um. 01:56:14
It's definitely something that has been painstakingly difficult. 01:56:16
And it was disappointing and it's a fair statement, but it was disappointing when. 01:56:20
The statement was made that our decisions already been made. 01:56:26
Because this is something that I've been working through. 01:56:29
So so. 01:56:32
Intently and. 01:56:34
Sleepless nights. 01:56:36
I've had to refill my Ambien prescription and I. 01:56:38
I I'm embarrassed to admit I cried at one of my meetings because I just thought, man, if I could take this budget and if I could 01:56:41
find this deficit that we need for the fire station, I could be like the town hero and I could go and save everybody's pockets. 01:56:49
No one wants to pay more taxes. I don't want to pay more taxes. Can I afford it? Yes, I can afford it, but can everyone else know? 01:56:58
I am concerned about our community and the people that can't afford a tax increase and I do hope that we can find them resources 01:57:03
and tools. 01:57:07
But what it comes down to is when I sat in that meeting, specifically the one where I cried. 01:57:13
There's no crying in City Council. I just want for the record, I've never done it before. 01:57:19
The point is. 01:57:24
If we don't make some kind of adjustment now first time in 22 years, then we're doing this again next year or the year after. And 01:57:26
what we're looking at is we have to hire. 01:57:32
So we saved, we planned and saved and were able to pay for this fire station out of our savings. 01:57:38
The new fire staff and then the two additional police, It's 1.5, which was a compromise. 01:57:45
The 1.5 deputies, so we hired one in July and we're hiring one in January. 01:57:53
But to hire 6 new firemen and the 1 1/2 deputies, we're looking at $1.1 million. 01:57:58
So what our city staff has done is they went and took out of our general fund. Did I get that term? 01:58:06
Correct. Our general fund, we had an excess where we had been frugal enough that that money had been set aside. So instead of 01:58:13
doing a $1.1 million increase on our community, we were able to get it down to $600,000. 01:58:20
And I know that's disappointing and yes. 01:58:28
My whole goal was can we find $600,000 from the budget so we don't have to do this increase, But then the very next thing is next 01:58:30
year we have to hire another six. So we're looking at 12 new firemen and that does not. 01:58:38
Somehow we don't have another 600,000 to pull out of our general fund. Our general fund now is that the the minimum balance that 01:58:45
it can be on? 01:58:49
To stay within our bond commitments. Is that correct? 01:58:54
So now we're looking at next year. So let's say we don't raise this tax, we don't do this tax increase this year. Let's let's 01:58:57
pretend we don't. So then we're doing this again next year. 01:59:02
And we're actually in a worser position. Is worse, or even a word worse. 01:59:07
I get, I swear. 01:59:13
I'm so articulate except for when I'm in a large group. 01:59:15
Very intelligent, I think. 01:59:19
We're in a worse position and then the following year we're going to hire another six firemen and I haven't even mentioned what we 01:59:24
might need for police. 01:59:29
So I'm looking at this in the long scale. 01:59:34
The long term. 01:59:38
I walked out of the house and my husband, I snapped at one of my kids as I was walking out and he looked at me and he goes, man, 01:59:40
you're going into this meeting. I was like. 01:59:44
And I said, well babe, I'm getting ready to. 01:59:49
To have people pretty mad at me because I have to make some hard choices and just don't do it. 01:59:51
Just don't raise the taxes. It's fine. Everything will be OK. And I said, well, I think if I don't somehow make an adjustment 01:59:56
here. 02:00:00
In a few years you might hear. 02:00:04
My name in the news, there's some of our city in the news because we're that city that was. 02:00:05
Too nervous or too shy to make a tax increase, and now we're looking at financial turmoil. 02:00:11
That's dramatic. I try not to speak in those kind of terms, but all I'm saying is. 02:00:15
I am a planner and I don't want to take out of our savings to pay for our day-to-day. I don't believe that that is a good business 02:00:20
decision and So what I am saying is my family. 02:00:26
Will pay that 13 extra dollars a month, which I believe I live in a pretty average typical home. 02:00:31
And we will contribute to the community so that we can have this fire station nearby where we can have accessible service, that 02:00:37
is. 02:00:42
To the national standard. 02:00:47
Right now, our deputies, our fire department, sorry, our Police Department. 02:00:49
We only have. 02:00:53
The national standards is to have one officer, one deputy per 1000 residents. 02:00:55
We currently have .75 or 7 three which is fine. Vineyard is very safe but. 02:01:00
We need to be able to keep up. I had a text message before this. 02:01:06
Another concerned citizen that had some really good ideas, but in the end he said, well, have we thought about just cutting fire 02:01:10
and police? And I was like. 02:01:14
What I've learned in all of government and city and taking care of a community is the first thing to go is never safety. 02:01:19
And I'm not willing to say I don't want to put safety as a priority, and I don't think anyone else is specifically saying that 02:01:26
either. 02:01:30
But it's hard when we hear kind of contradictory statements where we want to plan, but we don't want to pay for the studies. We 02:01:33
want fire and fleas, but we don't want to pay for it. And it's this balance back and forth and so frankly. 02:01:39
Sorry for the long monologue. 02:01:46
I feel very comfortable. 02:01:48
Disappointed that this has to happen, they're very comfortable with my decision. 02:01:53
And. 02:01:58
It sucks to be the person that has to make everyone pay more taxes. It sucks to have to even try to justify it to the community. 02:01:59
But. 02:02:03
Fully intend on doing what I think is best for the city as a whole financially and if it means that we're going to have to pay a 02:02:09
little extra taxes. 02:02:13
For a few years and actually it'll be several years until our RDA. 02:02:17
Starts to. 02:02:22
Close. I think we'll have to do it because I moved here specifically because I saw the. 02:02:24
The beauty and the wonderful community that Vineyard has, and I've talked to a lot of residents that might not be here tonight 02:02:32
that have also said we're willing to pay a little extra to be able to have the same level of service or better. 02:02:38
And, umm. 02:02:44
One last thing that I've been wanting to say. 02:02:46
Is I know there's a lot of controversy around our lobbyists and I know that there was some questions like let's have some 02:02:49
evidence, let's get some good results, let's be transparent. Let's make sure that if we're going to take a trip somewhere to do an 02:02:54
economic development conference that we're seeing what the benefits are. One specific celebratory item is we have a lobbyist, we 02:03:00
pay him 100,000 a year. 02:03:06
We paid him 142 last year but he's only entertainer for 42. 02:03:14
What's the correct amount? 02:03:18
It doesn't matter. 100,000 is a good a good point. 02:03:20
OK. Do do we know it it's a two year contract. 02:03:25
We pay them an extra 100,000. I guess what I'm saying is that sees. 02:03:29
Saying higher. 02:03:34
She's saying we're paying higher the amount and she's about to make a point that says even if. 02:03:36
We invested $100,000. 02:03:41
We got $10 million, so the return of investment. 02:03:43
Is great. So what it was is. 02:03:46
The lobby. 02:03:49
No, no. 02:03:50
The lobbyists and the mayor. 02:03:52
And I believe Amber, you were somehow a part of this, went up to the legislature during the session in January. 02:03:54
And they had state appropriations where Vineyard was able to get. 02:04:01
$10 million in funding. Now the argument could be all that's taxpayer money. Would you rather that go to Draper? 02:04:06
That there are so many other cities that could have gotten or so many other entities that could have gotten that $10 million. We 02:04:13
have this $10 million that will help build an overpass. 02:04:17
In Vayner on 1200 N. 02:04:22
OK, we're not going to do it back and forth, but oh, Jake, it's still Marty Stern. Go ahead, Marty. 02:04:25
So what I'm trying to say is. 02:04:31
Let's ask questions. 02:04:34
Call me anytime, message me anytime. I will answer all of them. I think what I want to do is rebuild that trust. I don't want you 02:04:36
guys to think that we're crooked and dagger, that we're hiding things and having backdoor meetings. I have a lot of meetings. I 02:04:42
actually write them all down now so that if anyone ever asks, these are the meetings that I've had, but I'm not going to spend. 02:04:49
8 hours every council meeting making my making the citizens sit and go through my new details. 02:04:56
And I've noticed that when we have these 8 hour long meetings. 02:05:02
People leave and by the end of it they're missing important information. So my job is to prepare myself to come to these meetings. 02:05:07
I'm so sorry, I don't really young. 02:05:11
To come to these meetings prepared with my homework done. 02:05:16
So it's not to have secret meetings, it's to know all the details inside and out so that I can give you a summary of what I feel 02:05:20
comfortable with and if you have questions further from that. 02:05:25
Please reach out to me. I have never refused to meet with a single person. I have had one person that I haven't been able to match 02:05:30
schedules with. 02:05:34
That's it. So. 02:05:38
If you have questions, if you have frustrations with me, I am happy to hear them. Please reach out any other time, anytime. 02:05:40
I'm going to go ahead and take a turn now, unless you have something in response. Yeah, just in response. I just want to clear the 02:05:48
record that. 02:05:51
A city our size doesn't have this lobbyist. And the second I found out about it, I called our representative, Nelson Abbott, and I 02:05:55
said you are our legal representative, Nelson here is the best guy ever. Vote for him. Where? 02:06:00
I was trash talking to Nelson. 02:06:07
We got to use them. We didn't call them once. That's the normal and it's free and he can get us just as much or it's not that $10 02:06:12
million bridge. 02:06:16
We didn't even ask him to do it. We don't need special favors to be able to do it. 02:06:21
It doesn't cost. 02:06:27
A million and a half, $100,000 to get 10 that's not. 02:06:29
The Utah. 02:06:33
You dot the director. 02:06:35
I've done his auction vehicles for years. He will talk to anybody that he wants to and we don't have to be a lobbyist to do so. 02:06:38
All right, let's turn. You got us a bridge, but. 02:06:45
OK, hold on. It's my turn. We're not going to do it back and forth. 02:06:49
Thank you for comment, Jake. 02:06:52
Just in response to that from my perspective. 02:06:54
We did actually go to our representatives. Senator Keith Grover sponsored it. He took it through the process. He worked with our 02:06:57
lobbyists. 02:07:01
And it was a really great unified effort. We've been able to hire this lobbyist that's worked for. 02:07:05
A very good value and like Marty said, with an incredible return of investment, not just this 10 million, but year after year 02:07:11
showing things like $16 million for the Vineyard Connector. We have a lot of infrastructure in the city that's state 02:07:17
infrastructure. And so working within the parameters and getting them to move ahead on their timelines is a very significant thing 02:07:23
for Vineyard and we've been very lucky. 02:07:28
To talk about taxes. 02:07:35
And come back to it before we go back to the budget. 02:07:37
I think it's important that the atmosphere of this public space is that we offer these public hearings so that we can receive 02:07:41
questions and comments, and that as you go through the records, you'll find that we are often giving reports that sometimes when 02:07:47
these hard things come up, you're probably not reading. 02:07:52
But if you want to see them, if you want to see reports on why we are investing so much in economic development, why we feel 02:07:58
business tax is important because it offsets property tax, why we felt it was important to invest in things like EDC, Utah World 02:08:03
Trade Center. 02:08:09
The Chamber of Commerce, things like that, We have those types of reports to look into, but we're looking at the RDA. There was a 02:08:15
comment that was made. 02:08:19
About where we started when this project area was created, and Christie said it really well, she said. We're different there's. 02:08:23
Almost 75% of our city is encompassed in this area. Center St. North is in this project area where we had a remediate A. 02:08:30
A steel plant. 02:08:42
And so Jake was saying we locked in at a base revenue. So this all. 02:08:43
Of these taxing entities got together and said, you know what, we're going to give 70% of that money. 02:08:48
And. 02:08:54
That increment, well, let me explain from the beginning. 02:08:55
The lock in the space revenue, that's the bottom, that's what everybody is paying at the time. Then they'll say any increment on 02:08:59
top of that that's built, any value that's created from that land. 02:09:03
75 or 70%? 02:09:09
Will go to the RDA to put in infrastructure. 02:09:11
Help with economic development and do that cleanup in order to attract. 02:09:15
Companies to come here and people to live here. 02:09:19
To create the city that we have. 02:09:23
And so there as you're looking at sites like the Megaplex. 02:09:25
There was Marty actually asked for this data and they came in and they showed that that base revenue since the time of 02:09:29
implementation of the project area to now that base revenue went up 24 times. And you can see this as we're bringing in the 02:09:36
economic development, as we're cleaning up these sites, as we're laying the infrastructure that we're talking about and investing 02:09:42
in this. That's how this is going to keep happening and we're going to keep doing this so that that increment. 02:09:49
We'll build our community, bring in that sales, effect that business tax and offset these property taxes when we go to the next. 02:09:56
And that's, that's an important part of. So what are we using these dollars for this 30% that's on our side? 02:10:04
100% of that property tax that comes to us. 02:10:11
Is for police and fire. 02:10:14
That's all. 02:10:15
And Christie said in 2000 or last year. 02:10:16
That full property tax that we get, that 30% that comes to us on this side. 02:10:20
It paid for 83% of our fire and police. 02:10:25
Now we're having our tax rate go down again. 02:10:29
Because property values are going up. 02:10:32
And that's a 24% reduction. And so we are losing. 02:10:34
We're going from 83 to 59% coverage, and so we're saying the tax rate is going down, but we need to adjust. Utah Tax Association 02:10:39
for Utah advocates for lower tax taxes in Utah. 02:10:46
They say there's not a whole lot of reasons for recouping, for raising your taxes, but the one thing that they do agree is that we 02:10:53
need to recoup inflation. And we've gone up 24% inflation and we've gone 32% down in our tax rate. And so we haven't been 02:10:58
recouping it. 02:11:04
But like we were talking about earlier, all of these things are phased and planned. 02:11:10
At the time where we need them to reduce the burden on the citizens. 02:11:14
So right now, we're in a structural deficit that means all of our operational costs, all of the things that allow us to go. 02:11:18
When the economy is high or low, those are the things where we can spend a little bit extra money putting in a roundabout at 600 N 02:11:25
or not doing it when when it's not. 02:11:29
Doing so well. 02:11:34
But we do need to recoup inflation and right now one of our costs, our costs are going up because we are building a fire station. 02:11:36
We've been saving. We were able to pay in full, but now we have a team. 02:11:41
And we have two police officers that we need to pay for and to keep that level of service that means so much to us. 02:11:47
Somebody mentioned waivers. 02:11:55
And working on that. And I'm glad Representative Abbott is here now. You know they're talking to you because that's state law. But 02:11:57
we'll all be working with you to talk about what our residents want. There was a petition that came in that said they they didn't 02:12:02
want to see this because they're on fixed income. And I think that's meaningful. And you'll be the first person that we come and 02:12:07
we take that to. Tony has a copy of it that we can get to tonight. 02:12:12
I think staff and level of service, there was a graph that came up and it was showing the budget cuts. 02:12:20
That came and that it wasn't meaningful. It was a wish list, but I want to talk about why I think it's meaningful. 02:12:25
So each year we go through a budget process and we talk about all sorts of things that residents want. 02:12:30
That staff feels like they need in order to maintain and keep the level of service that we have today. 02:12:35
And things come in from parents who are having their kids go down slides and they're it's too hot. So like shade sales, things 02:12:41
like that. 02:12:45
Sarah had mentioned it in the post. 02:12:50
Other things come in where we need people over sewer or we need sewer systems and all of these projects are being phased. So it's 02:12:52
it's not just a wish list, it's infrastructure. 02:12:58
It's the type of police coverage that we have. 02:13:03
It is things that you guys are coming in actively, people that I see in the room today. 02:13:07
Asking for. 02:13:12
And all of those things are what we're saying. We're going to wait on this. We're going to cut this. 02:13:14
We're going to make sure that we're not. 02:13:19
And diving into that budget because? 02:13:21
We are keeping and maintaining. 02:13:24
Conservative spending here and there's a few metrics that we base that on when you're looking at the Utah Taxpayer Association. 02:13:27
And it's one are our extractions from residents going down as population is growing and as we're spending. And that's something 02:13:33
that we sewed at the open house. But it is, and I don't know if we have those pictures here, but that's something that we are 02:13:39
doing now you can see as population has been leveling out the last two years. 02:13:45
That our amounts. 02:13:51
As we go for a fire station, A6 member team and two police officers is up. 02:13:54
It's because we're making an injection of capital into what we think will keep the level of service needed for this community to 02:13:59
make sure people get to your homes or in 2019 you can see a little bump that goes up. 02:14:04
In our extraction from. 02:14:10
Of taxes per resident and it's when we bought the Linden property to put out the public workstation so that we could mall the 02:14:13
grass and take care of the snow plowing and do all of those things. 02:14:18
On these these graphs are available for you. They're made public. 02:14:24
And so that you can really delve into them. Another one that was measured was how much are we taking? 02:14:28
Per $1000 of the average median income. 02:14:34
And what we're spending is below $12.00. 02:14:38
And that's meaningful because our. 02:14:42
Since we since 2017 as we looked at the numbers. 02:14:45
What residents are making average Their average median income has gone up since that time. 02:14:50
That's something that the Utah Taxpayer Association looks at. 02:14:56
Taxes in the county, it said. We have the highest taxes in the in the state and I just wanted to reference that it's in the county 02:15:00
and that each. 02:15:03
Each city does something different. Provo has the airport that they have to deal with. We, Christie mentioned Eagle Mountain was 02:15:07
very. 02:15:11
Small on taxes but then was very close to us when they were paying for their public. 02:15:15
Safety. 02:15:20
And. 02:15:21
And that's why those comparisons are so difficult. Marty mentioned the bond rating and I wanted to just clarify really quick 02:15:22
because somebody mentioned that we might be bonding for this. And I just wanted to talk about we already have bonds for things. 02:15:28
And in order to maintain the rating that we have, so we don't have to pay more and take more from the citizens or put a burden on, 02:15:33
we have to keep a certain amount of money in our rainy day fund. 02:15:39
And right now? 02:15:45
Because of these costs that we're doing to make sure that we complete our contracts and get a fire station and hire the team that 02:15:46
we need, we're at 17%. 02:15:50
And so we want to say even if we took all of the suggestions that you guys were talking about tonight. 02:15:55
Off and we didn't phase them in from year to year to make sure people aren't waiting at 600 N. 02:16:01
Or that it's safe to cross in certain areas. Or that your kids could slide down the slides without getting burns. Things like 02:16:07
that. Even if we waited. 02:16:10
Those things would just go back into our Operation rainy day fund to make sure that we gave you a stable count for 22% instead of 02:16:14
17% so that next year we could have. 02:16:21
As we look at these projects and we keep building and growing as a city, we can keep maintaining that and have and be fiscally 02:16:28
conservative so that we're not doing tax increases every year. 02:16:34
And there was a news article that came out that said. 02:16:39
Utah has the highest tax increase out of the five municipalities. 02:16:42
That you're doing a tax increase in Utah County and what it didn't mention is that like was stated here tonight, we haven't done a 02:16:46
tax increase in 22 years, so that since like 2002. 02:16:51
And. 02:16:57
And what that means for us and, and all of these other entities have been doing incremental tax increases when they found it was 02:16:58
important to them, when they suddenly needed to build a Community Center, they did these increases and they've they've 02:17:04
continuously done it. That's why Amber said, can we do it more often? So if residents don't want to want us to see, want to come 02:17:11
and tell us, hey, we want you to get rid of all of this stuff because you're again considering this. 02:17:17
Residents will be able to come in and and share more and tell us what to do better as we're spending so it becomes a more 02:17:24
transparent approach. 02:17:28
It it almost feels like white you want to have this conversation again, but it was really to say this is one of the only ways with 02:17:32
a tax revenue. 02:17:36
System to come in and tell your city whether or not they're doing a good enough job with spending. 02:17:40
And then economic development. 02:17:46
Sometimes there's conversations, I mean, I talked a little bit about why those things are important and maybe I'll just leave it 02:17:48
with her because we've gone long. 02:17:51
But I too am in support of this. 02:17:56
Tax rate adjustment, I think it's necessary and I think we'll provide stability year over year for the people of Vineyard. We've 02:17:59
been anticipating it for several years years now, phasing it in after 22 years to recoup that kind of inflation loss. 02:18:06
It's really important and to make sure that Vineyard is set up for success for the rest of. 02:18:13
Vineyards, growth and generations to come, we need to make sure that we are. 02:18:19
We are spending properly. 02:18:24
And that we are honest about the realities that we're facing as a community. 02:18:27
And one of the realities that we started the discussion with is that our city is built on an RDA, was created on an RDA. And those 02:18:31
are the cards that we have and that we're dealing with. And it's going to, if we do it right, if we're honest, then we and we put 02:18:36
these things forward and we raise taxes when we need to and we're conservative on our spending like we should be and like we have 02:18:41
been. 02:18:47
We will continue to do things like the Megaplex site where we are. 02:18:53
Increasing that base value by 24%. At this time, I'm going to go ahead and take a motion. 02:18:58
Sarah, you had a time, did you? Or did you want to talk more? We all took so much time and you were so concise, as was Amber. OK 02:19:05
then I need a motion. Could I just say real quick that we can all disagree civilly and still get along on this particular issue 02:19:11
and that we don't spread hate or anger? 02:19:17
And that we put a lot of time into and I respect all four of your guys''s votes wherever I wouldn't question your integrity on 02:19:22
where you came down on. 02:19:27
Looking at the same numbers and. 02:19:33
Like Sarah said on our post, she put a lot of thought into it and Marty's well, and I respect a difference of opinion, right? 02:19:35
And I'd like I'd like that to be echoed from everyone. 02:19:41
Like even though we did sign, you know? 02:19:45
I'm pretty loud about the perilous finances of our city and. 02:19:47
I just want to make sure that anyone that. 02:19:52
Support maintains that decorum. 02:19:54
Thank you. Can I get a motion? 02:19:57
Yeah, Does it not have a Russian food? 02:20:06
I move to approve Ordinance 202409 as presented. 02:20:11
All right, can I get a second? Second. 02:20:16
This is done by roll call. 02:20:18
That first by Amber, second by Marty. 02:20:20
There was number discussion. 02:20:23
We have a lot of discussion. OK, Jake. 02:20:25
No Amber I. 02:20:28
I, Marty. Sarah. 02:20:32
Yes, all right. 02:20:35
That brings us to 9.3 discussion and action adoption of the fiscal year 2024-2025 budget resolution. 02:20:38
Can I get a motion on this? 02:20:46
I thought this was two weeks from now. 02:20:48
I thought we were going to get two weeks to kind of go through that, no. 02:20:52
It doesn't have to go. 02:20:57
I don't know if there's been agenda for today. 02:21:00
I saw it on the agenda, but I thought, I thought that that was just a conversation. I didn't think that that was a vote on it. I 02:21:03
thought we got two more weeks we could. 02:21:07
Today is a vote, but you could ask for additional time if you wanted to. 02:21:11
So the mayor's assistant or other thing, there's nothing that we can do. I think you guys have saw even the. 02:21:18
Things that you suggested, shades or travel? 02:21:26
Nothing. 02:21:31
Of the ideas just. 02:21:32
Are you looking at me both anyone I think there are you asking for discussion? Are you asking for I think we've thrown out just 02:21:33
different ideas that. 02:21:37
The group of our budget committee, whatever you're calling it, like just a group of people. I'm, I'm OK with continuance because I 02:21:42
expected it into as well. I did go over and compare. 02:21:48
The two that that. 02:21:53
The working budget with the one tonight and they're they're the same and I'm fairly confident, I mean. 02:21:56
We went through it with. 02:22:03
With I don't know if I'm supposed. Can I say her name? I don't know anyway. 02:22:06
That works in government, finance and C. 02:22:11
Yes, he agreed that it was very conservative. 02:22:15
So are we voting on this now that this box is in for the 2 million to start the City Hall though? 02:22:18
So you're setting aside the 2,000,000 RDA? 02:22:24
And clarification, assisted savings account, right? It's not that we're committing. I'm not ready to commit to a City Hall and 02:22:27
that hasn't been committed. So we would have to vote. 02:22:31
To move forward with that. But even that idea of using it for the fire station though? 02:22:36
Well, that's just a point of clarification. That is the RDA budget, I know, not the city budget. OK, thank you. 02:22:42
Would you guys like to discuss this now or are we trying to wait for two weeks and continue to the next meeting? 02:22:48
I feel you know. 02:22:56
Jake is on motion. 02:22:57
To discontinue it. 02:22:59
To continue it to two weeks, I will make that motion. All right. Can I get a second? 02:23:02
Second. All right. First by Jake, second by Sarah. Any discussion? All in favor, aye. 02:23:06
All right, did we need to name the actual date or is 2 weeks sufficient? 02:23:12
OK, great. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. 02:23:17
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Thank you all for being here this evening. 00:00:15
Today is August 14th, 2024. 00:00:17
The time is 536. We're going to go ahead and start our City Council meeting. 00:00:21
Councilmember sequences will give us a invocation and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:27
I, Derek, and Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. 00:00:33
We are grateful for our community. 00:00:40
And for our staff and for. 00:00:43
The hard work. 00:00:45
And relationships that have been built, please bless and. 00:00:46
Help us make good decisions tonight, and help us. 00:00:50
Be calm and level heads that we can understand one another's concerns and. 00:00:53
We're so very grateful for. 00:00:57
This wonderful country we live in. Please bless our servicemen and. 00:00:59
Please press and watch over those residents and people inside and outside of our community who are in need. Help us know how to 00:01:02
find them and help. 00:01:06
Serve and be. 00:01:09
That caring support and we say these things. 00:01:12
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:14
All right. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:21
United States of America. 00:01:24
And from which it stands one nation under God. 00:01:27
With liberty and justice all. 00:01:32
All right. 00:01:45
All right, all right. 00:01:48
As our next meeting is going to be starting at 6:00, I'm going to go in order of this agenda that I feel will take us there and 00:01:52
get us there on time. So we're going to start off with our. 00:01:58
Consent items. 00:02:04
Councillor, I need a motion. 00:02:06
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:02:13
I have a first guy, Amber. Can I get a second second? 00:02:17
Second by Marty, all in favor. 00:02:20
Aye, aye. 00:02:22
All right. 00:02:24
That brings us to public comment. 00:02:25
If there is anyone that. 00:02:29
Excuse me if there's anyone that would like to make a public comment that is not about. 00:02:31
The certified tax rate adjustment that's coming up. 00:02:37
Umm, you may come to the podium. State your name. You have two minutes. 00:02:42
And we will hear your comments. 00:02:47
Kim Cornelius Vineyard Resident I'm just curious why we started at 5:30 to the six. 00:02:56
So that's all I need to know. 00:03:02
Thank you. 00:03:06
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:03:16
Just going on this consent item that you just approved. 00:03:19
On the approval of the. 00:03:22
City Council special session edited minutes of August 7th, 2024. 00:03:24
I asked for City Council to reconsider their decision. 00:03:29
On changing the form of government, unfortunately, my reasoning was edited out. 00:03:33
The reason is because I feel that we do not have the money in the budget for a vote. 00:03:39
And the money to pay for a salary for a new council member at this time. 00:03:44
I would appreciate that. 00:03:49
Those words being entered into the record at this time. Thank you. 00:03:51
Thank you. 00:03:56
Cornelius in your resident. 00:04:09
As you probably know, the. 00:04:14
That have met as a. 00:04:16
As a group of concerned citizens regarding the budget. 00:04:19
And we've met with Eric on two occasions and we recently received an e-mail. 00:04:22
Letting us know that it is not appropriate for him to meet with us, that he feels that it is a partisan discussion and that we 00:04:27
should seek legal counsel regarding that. 00:04:31
So, umm. 00:04:36
My concern is. 00:04:38
How is trying to save? 00:04:39
The residents of Vineyard money a partisan issue. 00:04:42
That's my first point. 00:04:45
My second point is, and I'm going to quote this from the e-mail that he sent. 00:04:47
The appropriate forum for such discussions involving city residents, staff. 00:04:52
And council members is our public council meetings. 00:04:57
Which are open to everyone. 00:05:01
And ensure transparency. 00:05:03
Open to everyone for two minutes. 00:05:06
So to tell me that an open meeting. 00:05:10
With a city staff member. 00:05:13
Is something that we can't do, but we can have two minutes at a City Council is really troubling. 00:05:16
Because if we really want to have informative discussions, things where we learn and you learn. 00:05:22
Two minutes is not sufficient and that's what I wanted to share. Thank you. 00:05:28
Russell Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:05:40
Yeah, my comment kind of piggybacks off of Karen's on that. 00:05:43
Comment This is the meeting to bring forth this kind of stuff. 00:05:46
She's already arrested. two-minute part of it. I'd like to address the part where we don't get answers to questions real time. 00:05:50
We used to get that and I thought that was very useful and informative, like Kim's question, why are we meeting at 5:30 and that 00:05:56
could be answered. 00:05:59
In 10 seconds. 00:06:02
But instead though, we have to wait and maybe get an answer later. And my wife asks questions all the time. 00:06:04
And she does not get answers to all of them. 00:06:10
And so that's failing. 00:06:13
And also when we do get answers, often it leads to follow up questions you can't ask. 00:06:15
Because we didn't get an ask, it didn't get an answer real time. 00:06:19
And so that's my concern is I think we should. 00:06:23
Be able to get answers when they're available. I realize some answers you don't have after research them. 00:06:26
But some answers we can get right away. 00:06:31
And it just would, I think, help where it used to be. I thought it was very, very useful and beneficial. 00:06:33
And I just like to remind everybody, too, we're all on the same team. 00:06:40
When I've been to the residence, we all want a good place to live and. 00:06:44
And, you know, upset in some of these meetings where I just walk out shaking my head. 00:06:47
Some of the comments that have been said. 00:06:52
In a in a bad way. 00:06:54
I think we can disagree in positive ways and work together Compromise. 00:06:56
We can. We're not always going to get our way, I realize that. 00:07:00
But I just like to see this. 00:07:05
Uh, really work hard and really consider one another's opinions. 00:07:07
The transparent so we can all know that it's. 00:07:13
What we're seeing is. 00:07:17
Is so we know what's going on. 00:07:18
And thank you for the comment. 00:07:20
Thank you. 00:07:23
OK, are there any other comments? 00:07:29
If not, I'll go ahead and. 00:07:32
Close the public comments. 00:07:34
And there were a couple of things, Eric, I don't know if you wanted to address. 00:07:35
King's comment, I mean Karens comment. 00:07:39
We are holding this meeting at 5:30 because we are holding a public hearing that's noticed and obligated to be done at six. 00:07:43
So we have to finish all business before that time. 00:07:49
Thank you for your comments otherwise. 00:07:54
I don't know if this is the timer if you'd like to address that outside this meeting. 00:07:56
I'm happy to address the question. 00:08:04
One of our council members. 00:08:07
Holds a campaign group. 00:08:09
Through his political group Politico Group. 00:08:12
And that group has formed a. 00:08:15
A committee or a group that. 00:08:19
That are that one council member uses to provide feedback to him on. 00:08:23
Political issues and other issues, including financial. 00:08:28
Guidance. 00:08:33
But that is very much a group that that our Council member has formed. 00:08:34
That align in. 00:08:40
In beliefs and. 00:08:43
And. 00:08:46
Purpose behind his campaigning efforts. 00:08:47
What I would like to avoid is. 00:08:50
Starting to mix the lines between campaign type activities, which city staff are not supposed to. 00:08:53
Engage in campaign activities. 00:09:01
And. 00:09:03
And legitimate questions. And so This is why. 00:09:04
This is why there is a division between our elected officials. 00:09:08
Staff and the public so that. 00:09:12
Our elected Our elected representatives. 00:09:14
Can interface with the residents of our city. 00:09:17
And be a resource of information on. 00:09:22
What is happening in the city? 00:09:25
So we our expectation is that our, our, our city. 00:09:26
Council members. 00:09:31
Interact with us frequently and and in as many meetings as we need. 00:09:32
To be sure that each of you are well informed. 00:09:38
And then you as representatives of the city. 00:09:42
Can go back to the residence. 00:09:44
And provide answers and information. 00:09:46
And explain why we're doing what we're doing. 00:09:49
And really kind of have those important, engaging conversations. 00:09:52
But that as soon as we start gathering. 00:09:56
With council members, staff and residents. 00:10:00
Especially if those engagements are with particular groups. 00:10:04
That's where we. 00:10:08
Might get ourselves in trouble, and that's what I was. 00:10:10
Trying to get at in that information. I don't know the legalities that are close enough and that's why I suggested. 00:10:12
Getting legal feedback on that. 00:10:20
OK. Thank you. Can we get legal feedback on that, Jamie? 00:10:22
The follow up question is. 00:10:28
Being characterized as a political group, there's many people on the committee that are not part of the Vineyard political group, 00:10:32
namely Daria Evans is not a part of the. 00:10:36
And they were, there were four people that were selected and we went through the approval process of deputizing the for the, the, 00:10:42
the people that we said, hey, these are going to get access to the. 00:10:47
Finances and you said yes. As long as they're your advisors they can help you. 00:10:53
So is he able to block? 00:11:00
Who I have advised me to come in. 00:11:02
I mean, there's, there's four people that have extreme expertise. 00:11:05
Kimberly Olson is a CPA. 00:11:09
David Larae, who's been the more planning sessions than anyone else. 00:11:16
Daria Evans has been to more City Council meetings than anyone else. 00:11:20
Sean Herring, who has the largest background and development in the city. So all four were this. 00:11:24
Were picked now there were others that said hey, if you want to come. 00:11:32
But why would a city manager be able to eliminate who I have advised me? 00:11:36
In a meeting. 00:11:41
You are able to have. 00:11:43
You're able to confront, liaise with whoever you would like. 00:11:45
Right to inform your judgment as a member of the City Council. 00:11:48
The issue as I understand it is. 00:11:52
Whether you along with whichever citizens you wish to have with you. 00:11:55
Have the right to. 00:12:02
Consume staff time to have these discussions. 00:12:05
And whether that is sanctioned or official. 00:12:09
Committee of the city, it's not, definitely not an official, I mean. 00:12:14
There's a little bit more I'd like to answer and I'm happy to answer any follow up questions. 00:12:18
There's a process. 00:12:23
City code that lays out how committees are formed and how commissions are. 00:12:26
Form there's different. 00:12:31
Types of groups that have different functions. Some cities will have a Finance Committee that's comprised of. 00:12:33
Members of staff and members of the council. 00:12:40
The city could form something like that. That would. 00:12:43
Be the subcommittee that would roll up its sleeves to get more in depth and spend more time. 00:12:47
On budget issues and financial issues than what you spend. 00:12:52
During a council meeting. 00:12:57
The limited time that we're together each week. 00:12:59
But. 00:13:01
The the real aspect of what? 00:13:02
This group was doing that is a concern to me is. 00:13:06
The use of this term deputized. 00:13:09
They are not deputized or authorized. 00:13:12
To do anything on behalf of the city. 00:13:16
Yeah. And when you talk about deputies to me, that has. 00:13:19
Significant legal meaning because it means they act with the same authority that. 00:13:23
A member of the council would have or the staff would have, and that just simply isn't the case. 00:13:28
Now, I don't mean by that to. 00:13:33
Minimize the importance of staff involvement or the care that. 00:13:37
Or not. Staff involvement? Citizen involvement. 00:13:42
Or the care that these citizens may have for the city, that that may be real. 00:13:45
But it needs to go through the proper channels. 00:13:50
And I I fear it's a little bit out of order. 00:13:55
To have a single council member. 00:13:57
Deputize people. 00:14:00
And then expect that those individuals will be able to call on staff. 00:14:02
And meet with staff whenever they wish. 00:14:06
I think that's helpful. The word deputize was selected by the state auditor, not me. He's he asked me he he used that term to be 00:14:10
able to. 00:14:15
Share the Ledger. 00:14:20
Or any finances since we were going through the finances of so I could be very careful. 00:14:22
I think deputies is just. 00:14:28
Can I share the finance, the finances that are shared? 00:14:30
And if we need any training of like what they can and cannot do like. 00:14:34
Not posting on social media or something like that. 00:14:38
And it also showed that I think. 00:14:40
You know the state. 00:14:43
Has an assessment where we're graded on if we have a state of a citizen. 00:14:45
Timothy, that I agree that the Council, the state wants us to have a selected by everyone. 00:14:51
But that was. 00:15:00
That offer was rejected. 00:15:03
Like to create that and so. 00:15:05
We just did a smaller of these are advisors that are kind of helping me to kind of. 00:15:08
Depoliticize the effort and bring the experts to help. 00:15:13
So it wasn't any effort and so if we need to. 00:15:17
Walk that legal line so that. 00:15:19
Those that are. 00:15:22
Of the most experts are can be there that's needed I mean I don't know why we wouldn't afford that to me to. 00:15:24
To be there if we have to go through protocol what they can and cannot do. 00:15:31
Obviously, I don't think. 00:15:34
If they are crossing the line of asking things for staff, that would be inappropriate but. 00:15:36
Almost all of that's been through me and it was very limited, so we can clean that up. I just don't want the. 00:15:41
Ability of saying. 00:15:47
We're not ever going to allow. 00:15:49
You know, advisors or citizens that are in the city to be involved in the process. I think that sends a bad message. 00:15:50
I appreciate that you're. 00:15:56
The city manager's role was to manage the time of staff and make sure that they have time to do their jobs and to carry out other 00:15:58
functions. 00:16:02
I think it's within his right to push back if he feels like meetings are. 00:16:06
Consuming too much time or not happening in the proper order? I'm happy to advise you. 00:16:11
On kind of an issue by issue basis of. 00:16:16
What you can and cannot share. 00:16:18
You can liaise with whoever you'd like to inform your judgment before you come to council meetings and vote. 00:16:20
That's different from. 00:16:27
Demanding that citizens or that non council members or non employees be. 00:16:30
Permitted to participate in meetings and have free access to information. 00:16:36
I think one of the things that we should address in this is that. 00:16:41
Well, that's the auditor may have mentioned that they needed to be deputized the. 00:16:45
I think the discussion was that. 00:16:49
We were unable to just deputize your specific group. 00:16:52
And that if it if we wanted to create something that would need to go through the formal process. So if that's something the 00:16:57
council wants to address, I'm happy to. 00:17:01
Bring that one one more sudden. 00:17:05
Footnote I should have to this is that the auditor does have a risk assessment and I'm familiar with that. And one of the things 00:17:07
they will look at on the risk assessment is whether you have a quote. 00:17:12
Audit Committee. 00:17:17
I don't equate the audit committee with the function that you've had this. 00:17:18
Citizen group performing typically an audit committee is a subset. 00:17:23
Of the City Council with either staff or. 00:17:27
Contracted auditor. 00:17:31
That can inform. 00:17:33
Financial decisions. Financial protocols. 00:17:34
And that is something they consider when they look at the risk assessment. 00:17:37
I would, I would agree with that. I would just say that the the state auditor was very clear that I can choose. I mean, it would 00:17:42
be very strange, Mayor, Madam Mayor, for you to pick. 00:17:47
Who does or does not advise me, right? 00:17:53
He was very clear that I get to pick No, absolutely. I don't think that's. 00:17:56
Let me clarify for you so you know. 00:18:00
And then you can tell me if this is wrong. You could pick whoever you want. If you wanted the council to deputize them, it would 00:18:02
go through a formal process. 00:18:07
Where it would be a committee for the whole city. If it's just a group advising you, we wouldn't deputize them. Yeah, I think 00:18:11
we're talking about two different things. Yeah, if it was going to be an official city committee. 00:18:16
I understand that that would definitely be a deputization. 00:18:21
Of that, we're not discussing that. What we're discussing is is. 00:18:25
This committee simply got together and got past documents of all of the past budget. 00:18:28
And did an audit of last year's versus this year. So it's definitely an auditing. 00:18:34
Exactly what went, you know what, what went on and we found a lot of disparities of. 00:18:39
And because of their expertise, some of these people have been going to meetings for 8-9 years. 00:18:45
Religiously and so. 00:18:50
Having the experts in the room is is something that I would definitely safeguard to have. 00:18:52
Yeah, I seem to be right. We were talking about two different things. I just wanted to make clear that if the auditor wanted us to 00:18:59
deputize something, we'd have to go through a formal process. And you're more than welcome to bring on any advisors that you want 00:19:03
to keep with time I'm going to have. 00:19:08
The rest of the City Council share their. 00:19:14
One minute is all you have briefing on your reports and then we can close so that we can start the next meeting on time. 00:19:17
I I just. 00:19:36
I just wanted to say that. 00:19:36
In regards to the conversation we've just had. 00:19:40
I feel like. 00:19:43
Umm, when we all agreed. 00:19:44
That that Christie. We all voted that Christie was. 00:19:47
The right person for the job. 00:19:50
And I, I just want to say again, I feel like she's the right person for the job. 00:19:52
We've come in many, many times. 00:19:56
And she's been so patient and every question I've had for her. 00:20:00
I've yeah gone through item by item and I've requested. 00:20:03
Different summaries of cuts that have been made and. 00:20:09
And things that I know take her extra time, but everything I've asked her to do, she's done. 00:20:14
And she's answered all of my questions. 00:20:18
And reasonable responses. So to me I feel like. 00:20:20
I feel like staff is doing a really good job and they've been completely open and completely transparent. 00:20:25
And I I really appreciate it. 00:20:31
So thank you. 00:20:33
Marty. 00:20:34
We were I was able to meet with the flagship from Woodbury Flagboro coordination meeting. 00:20:40
And Huntsman Cancer Institute. 00:20:47
There's just a lot of conversation and discussion on design and layout and progress. We did have the grocery store and the 00:20:51
Firehouse on the planning. 00:20:55
Commission meeting and that was exciting. It'll be coming back next week for more details, specifically we're talking about. 00:21:00
The grocery store on that one. 00:21:08
And there is some discussion about the drive through. 00:21:10
Pharmacy at the grocery store that the city will need to change some. 00:21:13
A code ordinance. 00:21:18
So that we could allow that if the Council so chooses. 00:21:20
Marty, will that be on the next Planning Commission meeting as well? I believe so. 00:21:24
Can you? Can you repeat that? 00:21:30
This type of the text amendment would take longer that would neither reboot through the planning Commission's City Council a 00:21:34
couple months on that, but the actual site plan for the. 00:21:38
So. 00:21:44
So what it is? Is that our current. 00:21:46
I think you just said it, but our current code doesn't allow Dr. throughs. 00:21:49
In the downtown area for the grocery store specifically, I'm not sure how it all details. 00:21:52
But the. 00:21:58
They're going to approve the site or change the site plans that can start moving forward without delay and then we will be 00:22:00
responsible to change that so that if we desire to have a drive through with our new grocery store for the pharmacy, we can have 00:22:04
it. 00:22:09
Got it. 00:22:14
OK. And then the other thing is the. 00:22:15
And helping school district to have their truth in taxation meeting last night, they did approve. 00:22:18
A number I am still getting through that meeting. 00:22:24
As I work today. 00:22:27
From what I understand is it. 00:22:30
I hate seeing this on a recorded thing. 00:22:33
The person that reported back to me. 00:22:36
On the board said that it was a lower rate, but I'm trying to fully wrap my head around bond levies and everything that that 00:22:39
entails. 00:22:43
So I'm not going to commit an exact number for you because I feel like it might be unrepresentative and not representing 00:22:46
correctly. 00:22:50
But I highly encourage you to watch the recording for the school board. It's. 00:22:55
The work session makes it very long, so maybe multitask. 00:23:00
Great. Amber, did you have anything? Yes, my Commission is currently working on their bylaws and they did a review of Bike Month 00:23:03
which was in May. 00:23:07
And it was very successful and I'm excited to say they're already planning next year's and I think even better. 00:23:12
The library is also also working hard and I know they're getting their fall programming together, so keep your eye out for our 00:23:18
events like coding classes, science, and reading time. 00:23:23
And the community garden is growing, so take a moment to step step over by Gammon Park and check the vegetable. Stand and leave 00:23:29
veggies and take some. 00:23:33
Awesome, Jake, there is about 30 seconds or a minute left for you as well, so we'll get it just so if you get a minute in so. 00:23:38
I just additional. 00:23:47
Yeah, I just want to say thank you to Marty. 00:23:48
For her prayer of openness and listening, I thought it was great. 00:23:52
I also read. 00:23:57
Sarah's post on Facebook about. 00:24:00
Trying to understand the vision and I hope tonight's meeting is. 00:24:03
Challenging in terms of questioning, but also thinking. And then lastly, I think. 00:24:07
To echo Sarah's comments, Christy, what was wonderful in all of our meetings and we know we questioned a lot of things. 00:24:13
On a lot of things and she's just such a wonderful person and so. 00:24:19
I think as we go through this, let's not make sure we attack people, that we challenge different ideas and concepts as we come out 00:24:23
of it. 00:24:26
So I echo that too. 00:24:30
All right, this brings us into 9.1 our public hearing on. 00:24:33
Our certified tax rate. 00:24:38
Christy, our Finance director, will start out with a presentation to get us going on the public hearing. Yeah, is that right? 00:24:40
OK, let's go ahead and go into the public hearing. 00:24:48
I need a motion. 00:24:52
So moved first by Amber, can I get a second? 00:24:53
Second. Second by Marty. All in favor. 00:24:57
Hi, All right. We're now in a public hearing. 00:24:59
Mayor, can I note just for the record of the meeting that it is now 6:00 PM? The law requires us to hold these hearings after 6:00 00:25:03
PM, so I want to make sure that's noted. 00:25:07
Perfect. And it's exactly 6:00 PM. 00:25:11
Go ahead. Something is exact tonight. That's wonderful. 00:25:15
I think many of you, this is maybe your first truth in taxation hearing. I know it is for me. I know it is for several of the 00:25:20
council members, Jamie, maybe you're the only one that has been to these enough that you. 00:25:26
I really familiar with what goes on. 00:25:32
I wanted to take just a minute. 00:25:38
And talk about. 00:25:41
I think most of you are familiar with the budget. Many of you came to the open house that we had last week and asked very good 00:25:43
questions. 00:25:46
And so I'm not going to go through the budget thoroughly, but I did want to talk about what we are doing here tonight. 00:25:49
The county gives you a certified tax rate every year. 00:25:56
And if you determine that you need more revenue than that allows you, then you say no, we're going to do a truth in taxation 00:26:00
hearing and we need this, this dollar amount or this percent. 00:26:05
In order for our city to balance the budget. 00:26:10
And that is what is happening this year. 00:26:13
Vineyard has never done a truth in taxation hearing before to my knowledge. 00:26:16
So like I said, this is new for a lot of people. 00:26:19
The slide that you see up there is the certified tax rate from 2017 to 2023. 00:26:22
The rate that we are recommending for this year for 2024 is the same rate from 2019, it's .003369. 00:26:29
Just another slide to show you what's been happening with our tax rate versus inflation. I think everyone is very well aware of 00:26:41
what has been going on with inflation. 00:26:45
On this graph shows you how the tax rate has continued to decrease as inflation has continued to increase. 00:26:50
And so we have this large gap that we are now trying to correct some of that to bring our spending more in line with that. 00:26:57
If you're not aware. 00:27:06
For every dollar that you pay in property taxes, Vineyard City gets $0.30 of that. 00:27:08
58 cents goes to Alpine School District, 8 cents goes to Utah County and four cents goes to the Central Utah Water Conservancy 00:27:15
District. 00:27:19
So when we talk. 00:27:25
Property tax allocations. 00:27:27
On your property tax notices you will see. 00:27:29
That while vineyards percentage that we're asking is higher than Alpine school districts. 00:27:32
Alpine School District's dollars is actually more. 00:27:38
Because the rate that they get is higher. 00:27:42
So I just wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page and understanding that. 00:27:44
This slide describes the situation that we find ourselves in. 00:27:50
The first pie is our city budget. 00:27:54
And you can see that the police and fire take up a huge portion. 00:27:58
Of that city budget with parks, public works, that admin finance. 00:28:02
All of the other departments taking the remainder. Again, that's the pie on the left. 00:28:06
The pie on the right is what is required for our public safety budget. 00:28:11
And what you can see is the blue, that is how much of our budget. 00:28:17
Our property tax budget will cover public safety. 00:28:22
With the tax increase. 00:28:26
You'll see some examples down below that second pie chart. 00:28:28
I'm showing what will happen this year. We were able to send 83%. 00:28:31
Of our public safety using. 00:28:36
Sorry, last year. Thank you, Eric. 00:28:38
Flashed her with the property taxes for fiscal year 24. 00:28:40
With the tax rate adjustment that we have asked. 00:28:43
And the increases that have come to us, we are now only going to be sending 71%. 00:28:47
Of the public safety. 00:28:52
With that, with the tax rate that we've asked, if we do not do the tax rate adjustment, we are only funding 59%. 00:28:57
Of our public safety. 00:29:04
Now with that, I wanted to talk briefly about taxes. 00:29:05
Why? Because many questions many people have asked Why do property taxes have to pay for public safety? 00:29:10
And the answer is in short. 00:29:16
That property tax is the only stable revenue source that we have. 00:29:18
If there are slight changes in the Earth, there are changes in the economy, it's very slight changes in the property tax. 00:29:23
Versus an elastic revenue like sales tax? 00:29:30
As the economy grows and shrinks, so does your sales tax revenue. 00:29:33
So our goal is to. 00:29:38
To pay for as much of our public safety using our stable revenue source as possible. 00:29:40
And that's why we have asked for that. 00:29:46
Another. 00:29:49
Question that has come up quite a bit is comparing to other cities. 00:29:51
I'm going to show you an example here of why this can be misleading. 00:29:56
But I also want you to just vineyards different. 00:30:01
No other city is in our situation that has RDA the size that we do. 00:30:04
That is growing like we are. 00:30:09
You just it's really hard to compare to other cities because you're not talking apples to apples, you're talking apples and 00:30:12
oranges. 00:30:15
So, and this was just an example I wanted to show you. 00:30:19
So if I want you to look down at the bottom and see where Eagle Mountain is on their tax rate? 00:30:22
So if you went on Utah, our tax rates that you talk about, you would find this information. 00:30:28
And it would say that for 2023, Eagle Mountain's tax rate was .000524. 00:30:33
What? That doesn't tell you, though. 00:30:42
It did not take into account that Eagle Mountain contracts with the Utah Fire Authority for their fire, which is not included in 00:30:46
their property tax. 00:30:50
So if you take into account Utah fire authority. 00:30:55
And their tax rate, it puts them up there at #3 as you can see. 00:30:59
So again, this, you can't look at the raw rates and say, oh, we're comparing apples to apples because we're not. There are so many 00:31:03
little things like this. 00:31:07
That can get in the way and make things misleading. 00:31:12
Like I said, Vineyard is just different. We have different political climate, we have different goals we have. 00:31:17
Different amenities we. 00:31:23
Have a different desire for services, a level of service that we expect. 00:31:24
And so we really shouldn't compare ourselves to other cities. 00:31:28
I I wanted to just touch briefly on the RDA. A lot of people have said, does the RDA affect our what we bring in the property 00:31:35
taxes? 00:31:38
It does. 00:31:42
However. 00:31:44
This decision was made way before you and I. 00:31:45
It was voted on. 00:31:48
It was thought to be the right thing. 00:31:50
And we can disagree on whether it's successful or whether it's doing what we want it to do. 00:31:52
But the fact is it's here and we can't dissolve it. 00:31:58
And so until the RDA agreements end, we will have a higher property tax rate. 00:32:01
That is just. 00:32:06
That's the way it is. 00:32:07
So again, I ask you tonight as we talk about things that you keep in mind, the vineyard is unique. 00:32:09
We are different. There's no other city in the whole state of Utah that has an RDA that has 75% of the property. 00:32:14
Is within the RDA. 00:32:20
Umm, I just oh sorry, this I had this comparison, this just. 00:32:23
Goes to show you several examples of how. 00:32:28
This property tax rate could affect your home. 00:32:31
We did a home value of 330,000. 00:32:35
550,000 and 850,000. 00:32:39
And you can see the annual increase also broken up by month. 00:32:43
So. 00:32:47
It's just a few things to remember before I close. 00:32:50
There have been many months and hours, blood, sweat and tears. 00:32:52
Put into this budget by by council, by staff, by citizens who have been involved. And I just ask you to remember that as we are 00:32:57
making our comments tonight, because there has been a lot of work that has gone into this. 00:33:03
We are not a private entity, we are a government entity and as such our budget is different. 00:33:09
Government budgets are lean, so you can't go in and say it, we're going to cut. 00:33:15
Across the board. 00:33:20
A certain percentage because the budgets are already lean. 00:33:21
Lastly, I want to make sure that everyone is aware, we are aware that there are people and individuals and families that are on 00:33:27
fixed incomes. 00:33:31
And that if this becomes a burden, Utah County does offer a tax relief program for those that will be burdened by the tax 00:33:36
increase. So please keep that in mind. 00:33:41
We are aware that there are people that will need to take advantage of that. 00:33:47
Again, what are what our city pays on property taxes should in no way be decided based on what other cities pay. 00:33:53
We are definitely a unique city with our unique tax needs. 00:33:59
And so I feel that the question tonight is, are we going to fund the fire and police or not? 00:34:03
Thank you. 00:34:11
OK with that. 00:34:13
It is now your time, so please come to the podium, state your name, where you're from and what your comments or question. 00:34:15
And Tony will put your time limit up. Can you raise your hand if you're thinking you're going to make a comment? 00:34:24
Also, for anyone out in the hall, there's about a dozen seats in here. Please come in. 00:34:30
OK. Thank you. 00:34:36
Yeah, I'm going to put it up two minutes. 00:34:38
Go ahead. 00:34:44
If you have something that needs more than two minutes. 00:34:49
Just let me know I'm I'm just calculating to make sure the most voices and here get to speak. 00:34:53
All right. 00:34:59
Start with making a statement that we're under no illusion in the gallery here. 00:35:03
Did anything we said? This Pope of the Night is going to sway any of you? 00:35:08
For those that are here for the first time or don't come very often. 00:35:13
My daughters grew up with an Easy Bake oven. 00:35:17
And from my position as a citizen in Vineyard. 00:35:20
I want you to know that. 00:35:24
I'm fairly certain that the cake has been baked already and so whatever it is said here. 00:35:26
Is probably not going to have an impact. 00:35:31
Let me reassure you that. 00:35:35
On the chart that was up there, I looked at my house and. 00:35:36
The assessed value was like 365. 00:35:40
But the number that was shown there is almost three times that much as far as the taxes can come out of my inbound account every 00:35:43
month. So. 00:35:46
Just for information. 00:35:49
But the $19.00 isn't the problem, the problem is. 00:35:51
Is that? 00:35:55
We're rooted in our city government here. 00:35:57
With an element of distrust because things have always not, have not always been on the up and up. 00:36:00
I feel like there's been a. 00:36:06
A lot of misguided decisions made and I'm just going to focus on one. 00:36:09
A brand new $50 million City Hall. 00:36:14
About two months ago, a group of a small group of U.S. citizens went to Saratoga Springs. We met with the city manager. 00:36:19
We met with a council member. 00:36:25
And another department head and the city manager took great pains to help us understand their history. 00:36:27
They took over 19 years to get to the position where they could build a $50 million City Hall. 00:36:33
Umm. Here's what they have to work with though. 00:36:39
They have a large portion of that money, that 50 million, already in the bank. 00:36:44
They have a substantial tax base that draws from Costco, Walmart, Target and many others, and their property taxes are drawn on 00:36:50
60,000 residents. 00:36:55
Now we come to Vineyard topped off Megaplex 14,000 residents and we still want the 30 to $50,000 or $50 million. 00:37:01
City Hall and we have a whopping $2,000,000 set aside to start doing the plan work for it. 00:37:10
This is almost a direct quote from the city manager from Saratoga Springs. 00:37:16
He says. My question to you is. 00:37:21
Understanding where you are and where we are. 00:37:23
Why are you even considering? 00:37:26
Building this City Hall. 00:37:28
We didn't have an answer. 00:37:31
So my suggestion is that we've got two $2,000,000 set aside. 00:37:33
That's RDA. 00:37:38
If that's a structure above ground, is not under the ground. 00:37:40
That money could be moved over and paid for our. 00:37:44
Firehouse. 00:37:47
That could potentially free up money to pay for other things. It probably could help us balance our budget without going to the 00:37:49
citizens. 00:37:52
Now, to me, this is the epitome of a misguided decision. 00:37:56
So I leave that with you for consideration. Thank you. 00:37:59
Mayor Fulmer and members of the City Council. My name is Brent Gray and. 00:38:08
Well, I'm the youngest president. 00:38:12
Every 55 plus community and vineyard. 00:38:14
My parents have done a really good job in raising me and teaching me how to be independent and. 00:38:17
For those of you who don't know, I have full spectrum autism. I am on 4 psychotropic medications. 00:38:23
Among Medicare and Medicaid. 00:38:28
Pretty much I am got to experiment gone wrong. 00:38:30
The state of. 00:38:33
Someday, when my parents are no longer here. 00:38:35
The house that they have paid for. 00:38:37
Will someday be mine. 00:38:38
The state of Utah. 00:38:40
Utah County. 00:38:42
Alpine School District in Vineyard City. 00:38:43
Need to help not only me. 00:38:46
But the citizens of our community who are on low and fixed incomes. 00:38:48
It has become very clear to me. 00:38:53
That the state legislature and Utah County. 00:38:55
Have worked together. 00:38:58
To increase our property taxes. 00:39:00
I make $15,000 a year. 00:39:03
Our property taxes at this rate. 00:39:07
Vineyard passes this. 00:39:09
There's going to be $4000 per year. 00:39:11
Can someone tell me? 00:39:15
Fell increase in the How? Increasing our property valuation. 00:39:17
Puts food on our table. 00:39:21
When my parents are gone, how am I supposed to live on 15,000 a year and pay for this increased property value? 00:39:23
And you're also telling me? 00:39:32
The county, the state is telling me that I have to pay 100%. 00:39:33
Of my Social Security income. 00:39:37
On property taxes. 00:39:39
In 1776. 00:39:41
Citizens through tea in the Boston Harbor for less deception than that. 00:39:43
Supposedly, we have one of the lowest state income tax rates in the country. 00:39:48
That may be true, but folks, we pay a heck of a lot more in property taxes as a result of that cut. 00:39:53
Finger pointing and accusation need to stop. 00:39:59
On the part of the state. 00:40:02
The county, the school board and the city. 00:40:04
I believe that Vineyard needs to help us reduce and remove. 00:40:08
Property taxes for the disabled and senior citizens on a fixed income. 00:40:11
Instead of proposing a tax increase. 00:40:16
Even though the excuses made that we should not be discriminating against specific groups. 00:40:19
I want to also address a comment that was made earlier respectfully by the the finance manager here in Vineyard. 00:40:26
Utah County makes 0 exceptions for people with disabilities. You have to have served in the military. 00:40:32
Become an injured vet. 00:40:38
An active member be over the age of 66. 00:40:39
Or a surviving spouse to get any type of property tax relief. 00:40:42
That is discrimination at its finest. 00:40:47
While I have been told that vineyard property taxes have increased. 00:40:51
Have not increased. 00:40:55
They have gone up every year since 2014, with all due respect. 00:40:57
In 2014 they were at $600.00 per year. 00:41:02
At this year alone. 00:41:05
They're increasing the $3700. 00:41:07
To say that Vineyard City's property taxes have not increased. 00:41:12
Again, there, with all due respect, is misleading. 00:41:15
My study of history has taught me that we the people. 00:41:19
Created the government. 00:41:22
Not the government created the people. 00:41:24
I asked Vineyard to please listen to We the People. 00:41:27
Thank you. 00:41:30
Thank you. 00:41:31
Terry Ewing. 00:41:39
Sorry. 00:41:41
Resident of Villas. 00:41:42
I worked for American Express, Toyota and Honeywell Aerospace and never did we approach a time when the financial outlook was a 00:41:44
concern. 00:41:47
That we didn't hear about it first. 00:41:51
They held global meetings early in the fiscal year to show. 00:41:53
The economy was impacting us. 00:42:00
How about about the shortfall and what was constituting that? And about future outlook? 00:42:02
And then they told us what they were going to do about it. 00:42:08
They would announce. 00:42:11
Any or all of the following. 00:42:13
There's going to be a freeze on hiring. That meant new hires or backfills or somebody dies. 00:42:15
Freeze on travel. 00:42:21
None. There would be no bonuses for that year. 00:42:22
No new projects could be made unless first approved. 00:42:25
Suppliers were being asked. 00:42:29
Cost cuts and there were other things as well. 00:42:31
And all of this was done so that they could would never have to ask their people, the employees, to take salary cuts. 00:42:33
During the last nine months that I've been attending these meetings, I have heard none of this. 00:42:41
I didn't even hear the words Bond writing until two weeks ago. 00:42:46
Yet it's just OK to ask your citizens during this horrible economic crisis when prices for everything are going through the roof. 00:42:49
To come out of their pockets first. 00:42:56
And they don't even know. 00:42:59
What you're doing with their money? 00:43:01
Citizens have an absolute and fundamental right to transparency. 00:43:03
According to Google. 00:43:08
And I quote. 00:43:09
Organizations with poor governance often lack transparency in their decision making processes by national reporting and 00:43:11
communication with stakeholders. 00:43:15
Let's not be that organization. 00:43:20
Your citizens are the stakeholders. 00:43:23
And when your stakeholders volunteer their time. 00:43:27
To assist in finding ways to cut spending and get pushed to the side. 00:43:30
They should at least have the courtesy of being heard. 00:43:35
We have spent millions of dollars for beautiful renderings of a city that we won't see for years. 00:43:38
We can't afford a permanent fire station, let alone a City Hall. 00:43:44
Everything is contingent upon something else happening first. 00:43:48
We have enough beautiful renderings. We have enough had enough planning. 00:43:52
The only plans we need now is how to bring revenue to this city. 00:43:56
And let's buy American first. We don't need to sell our souls to any foreign countries. 00:44:00
And if some citizens need to give up? 00:44:05
Shade sales A few new trees or plants along Center St. overpass. 00:44:07
Or a temporary roundabout. So be it. 00:44:12
Daria Evans, been your resident. 00:44:27
Last week I wore my 20 year old dress. Tonight I'm wearing my 10 because I'm living within my means. 00:44:29
Tonight I come before you as a concerned citizen. I am not a member of any Vineyard political group. 00:44:38
I just want to make that. 00:44:45
Clear and Jake was very kind, saying I'm an expert. I've been attending City Council meetings since April of 2022. 00:44:47
David Laraine has been around a lot longer than I have, so he's the expert, not me. 00:44:55
But thank you for that, those kind words. 00:45:01
I'm here to share with you. 00:45:04
The people that live in my community. 00:45:06
And several of them are here tonight. It's so wonderful. 00:45:09
I felt like I needed to visit the members of my community. 137 signatures. 00:45:14
People in my community. 00:45:19
Are opposed to this tax increase. 00:45:21
And. 00:45:25
I'll tell you why, because many of them are on fixed incomes. 00:45:27
Like Brent was saying. 00:45:32
Some of these people may receive a COLA, a cost of living adjustment. 00:45:33
But certainly not 18.84%. That's rest would say. 00:45:38
And. 00:45:42
Some of the people, some people might think that. 00:45:45
10 to $18.00 increase. 00:45:48
A month is not that much, but it might be to those people of my community. 00:45:51
That dollar amount might be needed for prescriptions or other medical costs. 00:45:55
Food, utility bills, insurance and other such needs. 00:46:00
An 18.8 tax increase is becoming a burden that is getting too heavy for them to bear. 00:46:04
Myself. 00:46:11
These people enjoy living. 00:46:12
In our Oasis of a community, it's a beautiful community and we love it. 00:46:14
And we want to enjoy it for as long as we can. 00:46:19
I believe that we still can trim some of our budget. 00:46:23
Like a. 00:46:26
Terry suggested the shade sales. 00:46:27
Probably said never been approved if there wasn't money available. 00:46:30
And merit increases and COLA amounts should have been asked for before a vote was taken to approve. 00:46:33
I would like to know the dollar amount of the COLA increase and how much money was awarded for merit increases. 00:46:40
I'm sure the audience would like to also. 00:46:47
I would like to know who conducted the performance appraisals and how many employees received merit increases. 00:46:49
Please remember to be compassionate with aged because one day you will be aged too. 00:46:56
That's George Washington Carver. 00:47:02
Thank you very much. 00:47:04
You're welcome to take this. I won't. 00:47:05
Tony. 00:47:09
Tony. 00:47:11
Thank you very much. 00:47:14
Hi everybody, my name is Justin, I'm coming towards you before you today is a concerned being a resident. 00:47:28
So it's interesting to see a lot of the talk going around, umm. 00:47:34
And I will say before I start, I work in the healthcare industry and my heart goes out to those who are struggling with healthcare 00:47:37
costs especially. 00:47:41
Those were limited. 00:47:45
Repeat your last name. Oh, Justin Jones. Yeah, yeah. 00:47:46
Anyway, it's, it's, it's, it caused a lot of moral distress in the field. We're looking when we, when we ask people to do 00:47:49
something and they're like, I can't do that because it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, it's going to break the bank. You have to 00:47:53
dip into savings. 00:47:56
You know, it's, it's something where I did my medical training in Colorado and this was that was never a problem in Colorado. 00:48:00
There's a lot more investment in community and safety Nets and in programs like that. 00:48:05
And I honestly think, you know, talk to any of the bare bones. 00:48:09
You know, underfunded psychiatrists that they have to beg to work down here in Utah County, and they'll tell you the state needs 00:48:14
to invest more than that. And I think that would be a great starting point. That and the cost of living adjustments. 00:48:19
So people on fixed income and with disabilities, it's like, because I do think that they should have exceptions and there should 00:48:25
be cost of living adjustments. 00:48:29
I do. You know, it's interesting to see the talk going around about different tax increases. I saw the. 00:48:33
The spreadsheet posted about how. 00:48:39
Difference out of all the cities we pay the highest. 00:48:41
Tax rate of any. 00:48:44
But it's really cutting out an apple to Apple comparison. I mean, looking at how much we pay in taxes compared to Provo or how 00:48:45
much we pay in taxes compared to the other decades cities that have been for decades. 00:48:50
It's interesting to see. It's sort of like a 20 year old saying I'm saving more for retirement, yet I don't have as much for 00:48:56
retirement as my, you know, 40 year old sibling. 00:49:00
Well, obviously, because they haven't been spending as much. 00:49:04
So it's just interesting to me in 2024, it's that that in it. 00:49:08
That we have options to get a fire department. 00:49:12
To buff our Police Department to provide all these different city services and those people out there that would want to. 00:49:15
You know when people. 00:49:21
City Council members from both the old guard and the new guard who reviewed this and seen that. 00:49:22
It looks like we're managing funds quite well. 00:49:27
Why people would want to say? 00:49:29
Let's defend the police. Let's defend the fire department. 00:49:31
Just so we can save some money and I think. 00:49:34
I just want to correct the record. I don't think anyone council member has said to defund the police or fire. I think there's all 00:49:39
five of us for. I think what we're going to do during this week is we're going to wait until all the comments are done. 00:49:45
In our neighborhood. 00:49:54
Apologize. 00:49:58
I really just want to actually step up because I think we don't do that enough and and just say thank you to the members of the 00:50:00
council. 00:50:03
There's a lot of information sometimes that that goes on in social media, but it's not always correct. 00:50:07
There's a lot of talk about, you know, mistrust and there's a lot of talk about, you know, hidden things that we don't know about. 00:50:13
And I haven't found that to be the case. And I really just wanted to say thank you to everybody that I have reached out to ask 00:50:19
questions because they've always been answered and very promptly, whether it is from the City Council or whether it has been from 00:50:23
from employees that are absolutely just fantastic. 00:50:28
Christie is wonderful. She. 00:50:33
I was supposed to actually ask her some questions. She didn't even know what I was going to ask her, and she invited me to come in 00:50:36
so I could ask questions about budget and the Ledger. 00:50:40
And ask questions of our Solomon love. I've asked questions. Tony, thank you so much also. 00:50:44
And different people. And I just found the entire, you know. 00:50:48
City fantastic to reach out, you know to. 00:50:53
Precisely to answer my questions, we have the open house. I thought that was a very good and positive experience. I got a lot of 00:50:57
my questions answered. Again, thank you, Christia, for doing that. You've taught me quite a lot. 00:51:02
And the information is out there. I come to this City Council meetings and I find that, you know, if you want to know. 00:51:08
The information is out there. We just need to really be paying attention to what has been said to understand what the facts are 00:51:14
and we don't understand to reach out and ask the question. So thank you so much for doing that. 00:51:18
Thank you. 00:51:24
I I. 00:51:25
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:51:36
I think we can all agree that this is a sad day and none of us really want to be here. None of us want to be adversarial. 00:51:39
We love Vineyard. 00:51:46
We want to make vineyard work and we want to make us. 00:51:48
Able to work together. 00:51:51
As I think about. 00:51:55
It being a sad day, I asked myself, how did we get here? How did we get to this point? 00:51:57
And ever since I moved here almost three years ago. 00:52:02
I've heard nothing about this is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. 00:52:07
And I believe that. 00:52:11
But knowing that, I want to know where the plan was. 00:52:13
When we fail to plan, we plan to fail. 00:52:18
What I'll tell you. 00:52:21
What I see? 00:52:23
This city has done to plan for growth. 00:52:26
We have an amazing waterfront master plan. 00:52:29
Millions and millions of dollars will be required. 00:52:33
To complete what has already cost us thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to plan. 00:52:37
We have a downtown master plan that's beautiful. 00:52:45
But again, we're talking millions of dollars and years and years before we will see that to fruition. 00:52:49
We have a corridor master plan. 00:52:57
Again. 00:53:00
The same problem. Money, money, money. Will we ever see it then? 00:53:01
Now we're faced with meeting a fire station. 00:53:06
For $1,000,000 and we're having to go to the pockets of the Vineyard residents. 00:53:09
So as I. 00:53:14
Talk to people I've read and I've remembered from my past. 00:53:18
I thought does a vineyard have? 00:53:23
A public safety master plan. 00:53:26
And I have come to learn that we have a whole lot. 00:53:28
A very expensive extensive master plans of which I have copies if anybody wants to see them later. 00:53:33
But we do not have. 00:53:39
The most fundamental. 00:53:40
Public safety master plan That plan. 00:53:43
But have enabled us to go to the developers. 00:53:46
And to assess them. 00:53:50
A public safety fee. 00:53:52
We have assessed fees for other things, but an impact view for public safety. 00:53:55
I have been told. 00:54:00
Has not been one time that has not been collected. 00:54:01
From any of the developers here in this city and I have to say why? 00:54:05
That makes no sense. 00:54:09
When we knew that our growth. 00:54:11
Was going to be some of the fastest in the country. 00:54:14
I had a conversation today with the Fire Chief in arm. 00:54:17
Wonderful man and I think we are so blessed to have him working with us. 00:54:21
But he said with me some very important things and that was one of the ones he shared with me because I asked him about that from 00:54:26
my past. 00:54:30
And he said that Vineyard is the only city he is aware of. 00:54:34
In Utah County that does not have this. 00:54:38
Not been assessing. 00:54:40
Developers this. 00:54:42
B. He also shared with me that while we heard from Christy. 00:54:44
Whom I think is doing a dynamite job. 00:54:49
He said with me that we. 00:54:53
That the City of Orem is not financing the public safety at the amount of 80% or 73%. 00:54:55
They are financing it at 50% of the taxpayer money. 00:55:03
And even at that, he just went to a meeting in Sacramento where he was asking for a loan for additional public safety training. 00:55:07
And Orem's. 00:55:16
Bond rating was upgraded to an A+, AAA Plus. 00:55:17
So there. 00:55:23
Only able to fund their public safety. 00:55:25
At 50% of the property tax with property taxes and yet they were still upgraded and that's one of the things that I have heard. 00:55:29
As a scare tactic here. 00:55:38
That if we don't pass this, we will lose our bond rating. 00:55:40
So I would like clarification on that. I feel like I got it from. 00:55:44
Sergeant Sanderson or. 00:55:48
Chief Sanderson, I feel like I got that today. 00:55:50
But then I. 00:55:53
As I was researching. 00:55:55
Today on this master plan I came across an article. 00:55:57
That was in on June 29th. 00:56:01
That was in the Daily Herald. 00:56:04
Where our mayor could be quoted to say as the fiscal year resets this July. 00:56:06
Vineyard has announced a public safety master plan. 00:56:11
Economic development strategies. And then she goes on with other things. 00:56:15
That's the first I've heard that our mayor has announced a public safety plan. 00:56:20
Public safety master plan. 00:56:25
So I'm just concerned. I don't know. 00:56:27
That I get every truth every time I ask a question. 00:56:30
But I have this article as well if anyone would like to see it because. 00:56:35
I don't think that we are being totally transparent. Thank you. 00:56:39
Russell Evans resident. 00:56:57
Like to just address my wife did. She went and collected those 137 signatures almost. 00:56:59
All under 66. I think we're from the village. 00:57:04
We have 154 units in the villas. 00:57:07
She didn't obviously get to everyone, but she worked hard and often when she took half out at some of those signatures, some of 00:57:09
those people like to talk. 00:57:13
To her, but she did a whole lot of work for that. 00:57:17
And I also want to note that there was only one person who declined. 00:57:20
And it wasn't because they supported tax increases, because they said they didn't know enough about it. 00:57:24
To voice an opinion. 00:57:30
So I thought that is a. 00:57:32
Stellar information. 00:57:34
But. 00:57:36
And our property taxes are supposed to go up 25%. 00:57:39
$800.00 so. 00:57:43
My sister. 00:57:45
Is supposed to go up $1000. She also lives in the village. 00:57:46
And of course, not at all. That's trivial, Vineyard. 00:57:49
But these are just the. 00:57:54
Hard things to bear. We have a lot of widows in the villas. 00:57:56
I haven't counted them, but there's a lot. 00:57:59
And we're about to get another one. 00:58:02
Very, very soon likely. 00:58:04
And these these are hard things. 00:58:06
I also work for the government Department of Defense. 00:58:09
I know about waste. 00:58:13
Back in the 1980s. 00:58:14
You may have those of you around back then. You heard about the $400.00 hammer? 00:58:16
And as a contractor that was selling the government. 00:58:21
Regular hammers. 00:58:24
Because of the way they allocated their costing or priced at $400 each. 00:58:26
Yeah, that made that. That made the news. 00:58:30
And then I heard about this one guy that owed the IRS 1800 bucks. 00:58:32
So he sent him 5 hammers and told him to keep the change. 00:58:37
The point is. 00:58:44
There's things that can be cut. 00:58:45
There's waste. 00:58:47
We don't need a bunch of frills. 00:58:50
In fact, I'm not a film kind of guy. 00:58:52
But. 00:58:55
So I'm not saying we shouldn't increase, make some increase, but I'm not sure we need to do the full increase. Thank you. 00:58:57
Hi, I'm Natalie Harbin. I'm a Vineyard resident. And first of all, I just want to make a couple of statements. 00:59:11
And I am aware that this will be a challenge for those on a fixed income and I. 00:59:18
I'm grateful that there are some state programs and I hope that everyone that can takes them into those. And I think. 00:59:23
But there should possibly be some more to include more people. 00:59:28
But I just wanted to make the statement that I think our council and our mayor and the staff. 00:59:31
Are tasked with looking at. 00:59:37
What our city needs for longevity and for the long term. 00:59:39
So I just wanted to bring up a little kind of anecdote or a story. 00:59:43
A few years ago, a study was completed with. 00:59:46
Farmers and when they were in the season of planting and they didn't have very much, they were at a point of scarcity. 00:59:49
They were not able to make good long term decisions. 00:59:55
They were surprisingly. You think when it's tighter. 00:59:59
They would be able to. 01:00:02
Home reigns in and really hold it tightly and make great long term decisions for themselves, but they couldn't. 01:00:04
So those same farmers were revisited after a rich harvest and when they had. 01:00:10
Full pockets and full bellies, they were able to make really strong long term decisions. 01:00:15
So it just shows us that this scarcity mindset does bite into our ability to make clear decisions. 01:00:20
And so I'm grateful for the expertise of our council, of our mayor, of our staff. 01:00:25
To not limit scarcity and to pull above this and to make those long term decisions for us. 01:00:30
They will always impact. 01:00:35
That will impact all of us differently. 01:00:37
And I think. 01:00:39
I believe watching how this has been pursued and the time the efforts put into it, everyone of those outcomes and the pains that 01:00:41
we will all feel from this have been considered, but they're being looked at through the lens. 01:00:47
Of longevity, not a scarcity. So thanks for your work. 01:00:54
Mayor Council Atlanta David Larae. I'm a resident. 01:01:15
I find myself very conflicted. 01:01:22
I understand that. 01:01:24
Highest text. 01:01:26
Communities in the state. 01:01:28
And by all figures include those we saw tonight. 01:01:30
Seems so. I also understand that we have. 01:01:34
A lot of burdens in our city that don't contribute to our tax base. 01:01:37
All the UVU property, no property tax pay on that. 01:01:42
All the RDA property. 01:01:45
Not very much there yet and. 01:01:47
And frankly, if we keep building lots and lots of housing out there, there may not be much out there still. 01:01:50
Hopefully there'll be some businesses that can contribute at the full rate and so forth. 01:01:57
And hopefully that can happen soon. 01:02:02
We understand that we need fire and police protection. 01:02:05
Would like to see it happen. It seems to me that the Council could consider some creative. 01:02:09
Ways to fund those we understand also that there are. 01:02:14
Bonding considerations to be looked at. 01:02:18
It just seems that this is a time when everyone has to tighten their belts and. 01:02:21
It would seem appropriate for our City Council to consider more more means of doing that. 01:02:26
Varsity Budget. 01:02:31
If we can transfer some of the funds for our for the plan for. 01:02:32
City Hall and use those now and provide City Hall for a year or two. 01:02:38
And we're talking about 1020 years in the future anyway, right? So. 01:02:43
It seems to me we could put that off for a little bit of time and use that now when we have. 01:02:46
A need now. 01:02:51
We are hopeful that the future years will have more plenty and less scarcity. 01:02:53
And that will be able to, you know, to do some of the things we want to do. 01:02:58
But right now, necessities seem to be the things that need to be dealt with and. 01:03:02
And working on covering those things the best we can. 01:03:07
Creatively. 01:03:11
And still try to try to maintain all the financial obligations we have to maintain and also. 01:03:13
Keep our bond rating as it needs to be. We would appreciate that to happen, but. 01:03:19
But please consider all possibilities. 01:03:23
For providing tax relief to citizens. 01:03:26
Thank you. 01:03:30
I didn't think this would be such a sad meeting being here, but it kind of is. 01:03:45
I and I think it's really sad. 01:03:50
It really is a sad meeting. 01:03:53
I'm Keith Holdaway. 01:03:55
I. 01:03:58
As I've witnessed and listened and read and. 01:04:01
Ask questions over the last number of years. 01:04:05
I'm not surprised that it's come to this. 01:04:09
I think everything has led to it. 01:04:13
And and mostly because things haven't been out in the open. 01:04:15
There's so much that has been done behind closed doors. 01:04:21
That hasn't been open to the public. 01:04:25
We hear about things that have happened. 01:04:28
That's absolutely wrong. 01:04:30
That's absolutely wrong, and anybody who is a part of that ought to be embarrassed. 01:04:33
When I hear about. 01:04:38
When I hear about trips to other countries and. 01:04:41
Spending lots of money. 01:04:44
That we don't hear about before the trips. 01:04:46
And the goals of it. 01:04:49
We never heard a single word about that. 01:04:51
Why? 01:04:54
I'm embarrassed. 01:04:55
And I'm sad and I'm angry about it. 01:04:58
We should know what the goals of that we haven't even heard a report. 01:05:01
About what we learned and what we have implemented already from all those trips. 01:05:04
Expensive trips. 01:05:09
Nice trips staying in nice places. 01:05:11
Eat in the nice places. 01:05:14
And and henceforth we get this tax increase. 01:05:16
I'm really sad and I'm angry that we haven't heard a report. 01:05:20
We didn't hear a presentation about the trip in the beginning. 01:05:25
And and and and. 01:05:29
And we can talk about other issues, you know, there's lots of other issues. 01:05:31
We haven't heard about increase in pay of anybody. 01:05:36
It hasn't been made public as far as I know. 01:05:40
And, and I think it's sad. 01:05:44
I think we need to wind it down. 01:05:47
And we need to be open. 01:05:50
It's just frustrating to me. 01:05:53
And we have earned this position right now today. 01:05:55
And it's a sad day in Vineyard because. 01:06:00
When I was sitting on the council, we we didn't spend a dime before it was open meeting and everybody talked about it. 01:06:03
And happy the day that we get back to the olden days. 01:06:10
Thank you. 01:06:14
There, I wasn't going to speak. I have spoken 140 times before the Arizona State Legislature, twice before Congress. 01:06:24
I'm Randy Gray, the proud parent of Brent. 01:06:33
And I'm just. I'll be brief. 01:06:37
I think it's criminal. 01:06:42
That retired citizens and the disabled. 01:06:44
Have to for the second time. 01:06:49
Pay 100% taxes on their Social Security income. 01:06:52
That is double taxation. 01:06:57
And that has to stop. 01:07:00
And while we've heard some things here, I've done work in over 50 municipal governments across the country and many counties. 01:07:01
Say. 01:07:11
That if you're on a fixed income or you're on. 01:07:12
Medicare. 01:07:17
You. 01:07:20
Frozen at the cost of your purchase price on the home for county taxes. 01:07:21
That's another thing that should be considered. 01:07:28
So my query and my plea to all of you is we need your leadership. 01:07:31
We need you to help us, especially those who are on fixed income. 01:07:37
To do this and. 01:07:42
I want to acknowledge Marty, who has been now to at least twice. 01:07:45
To the. 01:07:50
Alpine School District boards. I was escorted out of the last meeting. 01:07:52
We had over 50 people who spoke negatively about this. 01:07:57
One person spoke in favor of a property tax increase, and she was a teacher in the system. 01:08:02
Umm, that has to stop. 01:08:10
People who are working and have the children should pay the property taxes. 01:08:13
Not my son, not people who have disabilities, and not seniors who are on fixed income. 01:08:20
I'll stop with that. Thank you. 01:08:26
Thank you. 01:08:28
Tim Blackburn, resident, vineyard. 01:08:34
I'm going to take just a little different approach to this this evening. 01:08:36
Talk about budgets and accountability and not so much the property increase. 01:08:40
I was an employee of the federal government for all my working life, 38 years. 01:08:46
And went through a lot of budget cuts. 01:08:52
It was mentioned briefly earlier this evening by another speaker. 01:08:56
Whenever there was a change of administration, almost every four years. 01:09:00
We would our travel would be restricted. 01:09:06
Our purchases would be restricted. We would have employment hires. There would be no merit increases. 01:09:08
And we went through that routinely. I was a much younger father, have a much younger family. 01:09:14
And we struggled. 01:09:18
But those were the cuts we had to make. 01:09:20
In order to live within budgets. 01:09:22
Rather than increasing budgets in order to. 01:09:25
To meet increasing costs. 01:09:29
So I don't know what all those areas are. I know contracts have already been signed for this coming year and we can't go back and 01:09:31
reduce some of those, but. 01:09:36
The other area I would like to briefly talk about is accountability. 01:09:40
I would hope that the City Council. 01:09:44
Would hold all of yourselves. 01:09:46
Accountable and the staff. 01:09:49
For any. 01:09:51
Monies that are spent, for instance, travel. 01:09:53
What is the benefit of the travel? 01:09:56
There should be reports given. There should be written reports and verbal reports given on the benefits of that travel, especially 01:09:58
if it's foreign travel. 01:10:03
What were the direct benefits to the City of Vineyard? 01:10:08
What are the direct benefits to the City of Vineyard? To have lobbyists? We're one of the few. 01:10:11
Cities in and Utah that have paid lobbyists. 01:10:16
What are the exact benefits that we get from the money spent? What do they do for us? Intangible results that you should be able 01:10:20
to understand. 01:10:25
And say they're really helping or not. 01:10:31
Surveys. We pay quite a bit right now for surveys. I've never seen the results of the survey. 01:10:34
In this community. 01:10:40
Whether they're done by professional company or in house. 01:10:41
You ought to have the results of those surveys and know how they're helping us. 01:10:45
There should be accountability for all of those money spent that you understand. 01:10:49
And then you're able to. 01:10:55
Tell the rest of the citizens, citizens of these benefits. Thank you. 01:10:57
Thank you. 01:11:02
Hello, my name is Kaden Roton. I'm a resident of the Cottonwoods. I wasn't planning on getting up tonight, but. 01:11:08
A lot of thoughts running through my mind as I have heard the comments and listened to the presentation by Christie. Thank you for 01:11:15
that. 01:11:18
I've been involved with the city for a while. I've served on the Bicycle Advisory Commission. I'm currently a member of the 01:11:22
Planning Commission. 01:11:26
Last year I ran for City Council and during that campaign I had an opportunity to. 01:11:30
Meet with a lot of residents I chatted with. 01:11:35
Hundreds of people that live here and listen to their concerns and. 01:11:38
One of the concerns that came up a lot in my conversations were public safety and fire and having. 01:11:43
Fire station. 01:11:50
Within the city limits. 01:11:51
And that was something that was. 01:11:53
A big part of my campaign, another part that I. 01:11:55
Was really trying to focus on was economic development when we talk about budgets, whether it's for a family or for a city. 01:11:58
There are certain things that are necessities in that. 01:12:04
You just simply can't cut, and I think public safety falls into that category. 01:12:09
And for me, I think that. 01:12:14
I was there when you guys voted for the Firehouse in my neighborhood actually. And. 01:12:19
I saw a lot of people. 01:12:23
Members of this council included touting that as a as a. 01:12:25
The win and we're excited about it and I agree. I think it. 01:12:28
Is a good thing for the city and something that. 01:12:31
That we need. 01:12:34
However. 01:12:35
I knew from talking with Orem Fire and with residents and people and city staff. 01:12:37
That that would come with an increase in cost for the city and. 01:12:42
I guess my plea to you is that you have the political will to follow through on the decision that you made when you voted for. 01:12:48
The fire station and four. 01:12:55
The public safety in the city. 01:12:59
And that you now take a concerted effort on. 01:13:00
Economic development and getting more. 01:13:05
Throw in the pie, making sure that we have. 01:13:08
Have a bigger tax base to be able to fund these things and and not fighting against growth. I was. 01:13:11
Kind of painted as the growth candidate in the campaign last year and. 01:13:17
It's a little ironic that a lot of the people that fought me on that got up in opposition of this tonight, so I just want to. 01:13:21
To say that. 01:13:28
I would love to see. 01:13:29
Economic development become a focus of this council and growing the. 01:13:31
For the city, thank you. 01:13:36
Thank you. 01:13:38
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. I live in the Preserve townhouse. 01:13:47
Neighborhood, whatever you call it. 01:13:52
I would ask that if we're in a situation where you're saying that you need to collect more property tax revenue from my property. 01:13:53
I'll believe you. I would ask that you consider. 01:14:02
Allowing greater flexibility to allow me to live more efficiently. And by that I mean. 01:14:05
Currently, the city regulates the townhouses can't build. 01:14:11
Basement apartments. 01:14:15
And the city regulates. 01:14:17
Pretty heavily. 01:14:19
Parking Minimum parking requirements. 01:14:20
And So what I'm asking for is to say. 01:14:24
There's space on the property that I would like to use. 01:14:27
More efficiently and I would love to. 01:14:30
Invest more heavily in my neighborhood and in return I would love to pay. 01:14:33
More taxes on that increased development. 01:14:38
On my property. I understand this isn't for everybody. 01:14:41
If the options are. 01:14:44
Pay more taxes anyway. That I think should be a viable option. 01:14:47
And especially if you're saying, well, your neighborhood is already built out. 01:14:51
It would negatively affect your neighbors in some way. 01:14:55
At least allow. 01:14:59
Greater flexibility in future development. 01:15:01
I know that parking is a hot topic. 01:15:04
And I know that everybody has their opinion about it. 01:15:06
But allowing people like myself to live more efficiency. 01:15:10
Efficiently like we want to. 01:15:14
Is very beneficial for everybody. 01:15:16
Especially people who don't want to live more efficiently. 01:15:19
Thank you. 01:15:22
We have. We're going to. 01:15:42
Yeah, come on, Can I? I don't see anybody else getting up. 01:15:44
Thank you, Mayor. I had to step outside and take a phone call and I hope I maybe I missed something, but I would just like to 01:15:53
clarify that I have not heard anyone say they are against the fire. 01:15:59
And the police safety? 01:16:04
We just want to review. 01:16:06
And make sure that there are no better ways to fund this and that there is no. 01:16:08
Better way to make this workable for this community. 01:16:14
And that our budget is as. 01:16:19
The city manager explained it in one of the emails as bare bones as it can get. 01:16:21
And I think he says it is now. 01:16:27
But as I already did the budget personally last night at home. 01:16:31
I have lots of questions still and this vote does not have to be taken for another two weeks. 01:16:35
But please understand I have not heard a single person say. 01:16:41
They are against the fire and. 01:16:45
Police safety, thank you. 01:16:48
Good evening. My name is Corey Toshier. 01:17:07
We just moved here from Burlington, Vt where residents are now. 01:17:09
And we live in the villas. 01:17:14
And I simply wanted to point out that. 01:17:15
Property taxes are an issue that you must be very, very careful about. 01:17:18
We lived in Burlington for 23 years. 01:17:23
When I settled and started there, a professor at the University of Vermont. 01:17:26
Our property taxes on our house. 01:17:30
Were $8000 a year. 01:17:32
By the time we left this past year. 01:17:35
They were $13,000 a year. 01:17:37
So you must be very cautious. 01:17:41
In using your property taxes. 01:17:43
Because in Vermont it was used as a way to. 01:17:45
Create and generate funds that because there were no huge industries, there were no resources that were. 01:17:48
Available for doing other than that. 01:17:54
So that's just my comments. Be cautious. 01:17:55
Thank you. 01:17:59
OK, it looks like there are no other comments so I am going to go out of a public hearing. I need a motion. 01:18:09
So move. Thank you, Amber. Can I get a second? 01:18:16
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. 01:18:19
Aye, aye, aye. All right. 01:18:22
Council, we can go ahead and discuss. I know many of you probably. 01:18:25
We want to address some of the comments and then start discussion. I believe I started with reports with Sarah SO. 01:18:30
If somebody else would like to well it was taken answer so somebody else would like to start first between Amber and Marty, OK, go 01:18:37
ahead Amber. I would actually like to know if we can make these truth and taxation. 01:18:44
Meetings are more routine thing. 01:18:51
As we're talking about, it's been over 20 years since we had a tax rate increase. And even if we don't make changes, I think you 01:18:53
would be beneficial for the citizens to be able to come into those routinely every year, every two years, understand what's going 01:18:58
on, share their input so that they don't feel blindsided by this. 01:19:04
Is that something that we could do or OK? 01:19:09
I do think it's important that we do this increase. I see the reasons for it, but I understand why it. 01:19:14
Why? It is stressful and I do hope that we can get opportunities for you to feel more involved along the way. 01:19:20
And have your voices heard. 01:19:26
All right. 01:19:30
I have kind of the group that we did. 01:19:36
I don't want to just talk about it actually. I would rather share my screen, slide my thoughts together. I don't know when the 01:19:39
great time to do that is. 01:19:43
Is that now? Or is this in a question answer? Because I'd like to share my thoughts using the screen. Should I stand up and use 01:19:49
that? 01:19:52
I don't know the best way to approach that, Eric. Or I can just share my screen by standing there. 01:19:58
Oh, I can just do it here. 01:20:04
So you can see my face. 01:20:08
I've loved all the comments for and again and I think those against helped educate us as well. 01:20:14
And I like the spirit. I know. It's a somber spirit, you know, It's a feeling. What do I? 01:20:20
Just turn it on. 01:20:25
Now activate. 01:20:28
In the bottom. 01:20:35
Share screen. 01:20:38
Share City Hall. 01:20:42
Or bulletin board. 01:20:45
Is that called? Is that called bulletin board? 01:20:50
Does that have an HDMI over there? 01:20:53
City Hall Chambers. 01:20:59
While we prepare for this. 01:21:03
I think it would be good to learn about Utah's tax law. 01:21:11
That is revenue neutral. 01:21:16
Christy, I don't know if you want to explain what it means to be revenue neutral and why we do it. 01:21:19
The last question, that or the last comment that came in talks about how property taxes just kept going higher and higher and 01:21:24
higher. 01:21:28
And I think it might be beneficial to learn about. 01:21:32
Being tax revenue neutral. 01:21:35
While it could be the case that people's property taxes have been increasing, the vineyard rate has been decreasing. 01:21:40
Because what the county auditor does when they set your rate. 01:21:47
Is they say what revenue did you use and need this here and what is the rate based on your value? 01:21:50
To get that same amount of revenue next year. 01:21:57
So as we grow. 01:21:59
The tax rate actually goes down and they say that it's revenue neutral because they set the goal is say 10 million. 01:22:01
If we have 10 million this year. 01:22:09
And we had 10 houses that were paying that. 01:22:11
Next year, if we have 12 houses that are paying 10 million, you can see that the rate would actually go down. 01:22:14
Is that what you were asking? Yeah. And so the overall idea is that. 01:22:20
If the entire taxing area increases in value by 10%, the tax rate. 01:22:25
Would decrease, which is what's happening. Sometimes you might find that your tax that you're having an increase when other 01:22:32
people's rates are going down. But for the city since 2017, the numbers are actually going down. Now Brent mentioned something 01:22:39
where our population was increasing, so we're collecting more as a city. 01:22:45
To take care of the needs of the residents that are moving in, but the tax rate itself is decreasing. 01:22:53
So if everybody's taxes or if everybody's. 01:22:58
Property goes up by 10%, then the tax rate goes down evenly. If say there's 10 houses that all went up and that's the full area 01:23:01
except for one house went up by 15%, they would see an increase above that flat 10% increase that everybody went up. 01:23:09
By if there was a house that went down by 5% or only went up by 5% and not 10%. 01:23:17
Then you would see them have a lower. 01:23:24
A value or a lower tax that they would pay? Does that make sense? Did I explain that well? 01:23:26
Yeah. And the only thing that I would add to that is that. 01:23:32
There are 5. 01:23:35
Taxing entities that have an impact on property tax. 01:23:36
It's the While Vineyard has not been increasing its property taxes for 22 years. 01:23:40
Central Utah Water. 01:23:47
They make an adjustment every year. 01:23:49
Alpine School District have made maybe 3 over that same period of time tax tax rate increases. 01:23:51
Utah County has made at least a couple tax rate adjustments. 01:23:58
And who am I forgetting? 01:24:03
Mosquito abatement. They're probably about the same every year, but but. 01:24:06
It's these. It's this variety of text. 01:24:10
Taxing entities. 01:24:12
That each independently can make an adjustment. 01:24:14
That you can see your tax year, your property tax rate or your property tax bill went up this year. 01:24:17
And you want to come attack Vineyard? 01:24:23
In 22 years, that has never been. 01:24:26
Making that adjustment to your tax bill. 01:24:29
It has been one of those other 5. 01:24:32
So this is the first year in 22 years that Vineyard City. 01:24:34
Is proactively looking at the tax rate and saying we need a little bit more this year. 01:24:38
And we're adjusting it back to that 2019 rate. 01:24:44
So that inflation that has. 01:24:47
Gotten out of control a little bit. 01:24:49
Doesn't have the same. 01:24:51
Crushing effect on our buying power. 01:24:53
And it brings us a little closer to being able to. 01:24:56
Cover those things that we need to. 01:24:59
This year and going forward. 01:25:01
I think another thing that would be helpful is that one of the comments that came up was the RDA and how we can offset costs to 01:25:03
our general fund with RDA dollars, but RDA dollars are specifically used for. 01:25:11
Limited purposes. 01:25:18
And those funds can't be utilized for certain things or to offset budgets. It's very specific things like cleanup. 01:25:20
And then certain economic opportunities. And I believe there's one more. 01:25:27
What's the infrastructure? So making sure that we're utilizing those dollars for the right things is is important as we have these 01:25:32
conversations. 01:25:36
Is there anything that overall we felt like needed to be discussed or do you guys want to discuss while they're getting ready? 01:25:42
Well, I just keep, I just keep hearing and since I've been here. 01:25:47
Asking lots and lots of questions, right? 01:25:52
Umm, and I keep hearing tonight, it's like then I keep hearing Vineyard how the higher tax rate. 01:25:55
Then lots of others, but it's been like that since most of before most of us moved here. 01:26:02
And it wasn't a problem until tonight. 01:26:06
So and and like Jayden said. 01:26:09
I During the campaign there was a huge heated argument all the time about. 01:26:12
Frustration and not having. 01:26:17
Our own fire station. 01:26:20
And um. 01:26:21
But I don't know if I'm supposed to use names but a little girl that taught my. 01:26:23
Daughters Sewing. 01:26:28
She had to sit and wait with a broken pelvic bone for over half an hour. 01:26:29
So so when I'm as a pain extra $18.00 a month. 01:26:35
So we can help. 01:26:39
Emergency services 2 minutes from my house. 01:26:40
To me. 01:26:43
There's a universal law called Fair Exchange. What am I giving and what am I getting back? 01:26:44
And if there's fair exchange? 01:26:49
Then I feel fine about it. If there's not fair exchange, Alpine School District might be a different discussion. 01:26:52
But uh. 01:26:57
But for me to have these services one minute 2 minutes from my house for $18.00 increase is fair exchange. 01:26:58
I have a good friend on the Alpine School District and she she asked me when I first got elected, she said. 01:27:11
Have you ever walked into a room and you just knew everybody hated your guts? And I was like, no. 01:27:17
No, I can't imagine that would ever happen. 01:27:21
And I kind of feel like that could happen tonight. 01:27:24
But but I'm gonna vote for the tax rate increase because when it comes down to it. 01:27:28
And one of you in the villas. 01:27:34
Are in need of those emergency services. 01:27:36
I'll know that my tax rate increase is supporting you. 01:27:39
So I just want you to know that. 01:27:43
It's not without thought. 01:27:45
They're asking, they're asking for half of what they actually need and we're hoping that economic economic development will cover 01:27:46
the rest next year. 01:27:50
So they've been very, very. 01:27:54
Small and they're asked. 01:27:58
And I feel like that needs to be taken into account. 01:28:00
Sorry, I can record that. 01:28:07
And I agree, I think you can listen to this argument and hear both sides and. 01:28:10
Come away from it differently and then? 01:28:17
You know, umm. 01:28:20
Not be villainized for hey I agree this or you know, king size candy bar or a regular size. 01:28:22
I think since we have such a good audience here today. 01:28:28
I want to describe. 01:28:31
A dire situation that our city is in based off of decisions that were made in 2011 prior to any of this council. 01:28:32
Was ever put in? 01:28:40
Which is the RDA. 01:28:42
The. 01:28:44
Was a shock to be able to have this city be able to exist. 01:28:45
It was a long shot to be able to do it. 01:28:50
When When? In 2011 it was put in. 01:28:53
Over half of our property, 49 point 1% was put into an RDA. 01:28:58
Half of that then froze. Those property taxes froze in 2011. I want to give you an example of my property at that time. 01:29:04
My property, oh, it's not showing up as a little bit lower, so I can't show it was about $800 in an open space property. And when 01:29:14
I say the RDA, what most people need to understand. 01:29:18
50% of the property I'm talking about is Jimmy the Steel. 01:29:24
Wetlands and everything, all the settling ponds and everything like that, OK. 01:29:27
We decided as a city school district. 01:29:32
Sewer and water. 01:29:37
To freeze half of our property and allow them to stay at a lower rate of 2011. 01:29:39
I gave the example of my house and the sides and I'll show it to you later. It's about $700. 01:29:47
When I build my house in 2024, it's like 4300. I think I have the exact right. 01:29:53
We did that in exchange. 01:30:00
So that they would be able to take that money and we would be able to go out and get economic development like a Costco, a Walmart 01:30:02
or something to be able to develop. 01:30:07
A massive tax base. 01:30:12
From 2011 until now, that tax base has not come to fruition. 01:30:14
It's very difficult to have somebody come to where there's a. 01:30:19
A dump, A power plant, A dirty leg. 01:30:23
And toxic property it's been. That's why they tried to get this to happen. 01:30:26
So that's very important and that bothers me because Utah City, all of those developers, their, this tax rate is not going to be 01:30:32
affecting any of their properties. 01:30:37
It's weighed heavily on me because of that. 01:30:43
They're freezed in at the 2011 rate. 01:30:45
Right, but we will only the other percentage. 01:30:48
Because of that, every year when our when our failure to be able to get sales tax hasn't happened, we've had to turn to the backs 01:30:52
of the citizens to increase their property taxes year over year. 01:30:58
That is why this is not an Apple's. 01:31:03
To Apple's comparison, because we're only. It's like, it's like fighting with one hand tied behind your back, Orem gets. 01:31:05
To do property taxes on 100% of their properties. 01:31:13
Half of them we do get, but they're only playing that produced rate, right? 01:31:18
And that's why we're at the 15. This is an example of an average. 01:31:24
That we used and it went up to 1800. 01:31:28
Every Yeah. Why did you say councilwoman's? 01:31:32
Just because that was that was an example of an average home that but but. 01:31:35
I just, I probably could have found great slides, but just that was the conversation of what an average home was. 01:31:40
Every year. 01:31:48
Since 2014, Vineyard has increased our property tax rate. You can see that on the left there. And then you can see the total 01:31:49
collector base. Our sales tax has gone up. 01:31:54
They go about $1,000,000. 01:31:59
600,000 a million. 01:32:01
Up every single year. 01:32:03
In total revenue that our city gets to go through and spend, right? 01:32:05
And I want to be very clear. 01:32:12
Because of that, many of the early. 01:32:14
People in Vineyard didn't put St. Lights didn't put. 01:32:17
Sidewalks into their roads because they do. They couldn't afford it to be able to have that type of thing. So when you drive down. 01:32:20
Ask you something, you said every year we increase their property taxes and their tax rate goes up or do you mean the total 01:32:28
revenue pie goes up every year? OK, great. 01:32:34
Well, it's actually not throat. Part of it is growth, but everyone's home values have gone up dramatically. Actually, just for the 01:32:41
record, my house value went down. 01:32:46
There is there is some bumps for one year to the next in your home. I just want to be specific. I think that I think that. 01:32:52
I'm gonna let you finish. I'm looking at her whole thing. 01:32:58
I just think the danger here and I'm maybe I'm a little impatient. I just want to understand. 01:33:01
Are you trying to like tell us to cancel the RDA or? 01:33:06
No, what what I think citizens need done, I'll get to it. I think it'll be very helpful to educate everybody. 01:33:10
I'll get, I promise. 01:33:16
Because of that, we get about $1,000,000 more a year. 01:33:19
But on total revenue? 01:33:22
But we are different. It is on the backs of our citizens. 01:33:25
Of our property taxes to be able to do that. 01:33:29
Our total revenue is 8.8 million last year, right? You guys can see that number right under the red. 01:33:32
Umm, question marks. 01:33:39
Our staff and I want to make sure that 'cause I, I have a question so that I can understand your side. So you're saying we're 01:33:44
different in that property taxes paid from the backs of our residents versus other citizens, other cities, other cities are half 01:33:50
the rate because they have a tax base. 01:33:56
Number one the vineyard does not have and the number 2. 01:34:03
Half of the properties are in the RDA, and they're frozen at a very low 2011 rate. 01:34:06
Due to the RDA. 01:34:14
OK. Thank you. 01:34:15
And so people need to understand that that that is a massive. 01:34:17
Arm behind your back, right? 01:34:20
The thing one thing I do want to collect on the record is, and I know Christy did a really, really good job, but I feel like this 01:34:23
slide is a little bit deceiving. 01:34:26
And at the beginning of the year, I know the staff and budget came together and I think this is a learning process. 01:34:30
And that we put together and we said we want to buy or spend $6 million more this coming year than last year. And. 01:34:36
I put into that. 01:34:44
Citizens put into the Council put into that. 01:34:45
And we just put it above what that is and what this graph that was at the open house was saying. We made this big. We added so 01:34:48
many more things. 01:34:52
Over $7,000,000 more. 01:34:57
And when I looked at it, I was like, how do you add $7,000,000 more of our total revenue is only 8 million? 01:35:00
Right. So what that graph is, is kind of misleading is, is that? 01:35:05
We put a wish list together of 7 million. 01:35:09
We. 01:35:12
We cut 76 million of it, but we still are increasing 1,000,000 and so. 01:35:13
It's kind of misleading in that it's. 01:35:18
We're not cutting, we're increasing. 01:35:20
Significantly, but I just wanted to point that out. 01:35:23
That when you say we're increasing significantly, can you tell me what you mean? I think that's well step. I think Christie's 01:35:26
already told you the revenue increases of what we are 600,000 or half a million. 01:35:32
In the revenue increase? 01:35:39
Yeah. So we're actually not cutting. I mean, we're cutting our wish list. It wasn't, which isn't really real money. It's just. 01:35:43
Things that we put together and said we wanted it, I don't think I understand that. Could you explain what he means? Public safety 01:35:52
itself increased 1.1 million, right? So we are asking for a tax rate that would give us 600,000 of that other 600 is from the fund 01:35:58
would be coming from other revenue sources other than property tax. 01:36:05
So I just want people to understand the difference between that because it's like. 01:36:13
We didn't spend $6 million last year. 01:36:17
More and this year in order to hit that, we cut 6,000,000 out of real spending last year that was just. 01:36:20
Proposed Hey, let's say you know these are some wish list things, right? They were proposed projects by City Council. 01:36:27
By staff members and yes, right, but like I said, we have not incurred. 01:36:35
We haven't put our spending past what we were bringing. We needed for the public safety, correct, Correct. Yeah, yeah. 01:36:40
I just, I had so many people call me and I rate like. 01:36:46
Hey, I didn't see 6 million from the previous budget and I'm like, I don't know that I just wanted to clear that out so. 01:36:50
But I also think that and I and. 01:36:57
I really hate the tone of cut. 01:37:02
Or fat or waste. 01:37:05
Because I've worked in government for 20 years and they really are people. So I get emotional about it because there's so many 01:37:07
great people in Vineyard City. 01:37:11
They they really are, you know, and so. 01:37:14
It's a, it's a dicey topic because there's some of our friends, right? But at the same rate when the down economy, you have to 01:37:17
figure things out, right? So. 01:37:21
But I want to go through like. 01:37:25
One of the things that I ran on or that I believe on the tax rate that I have issues with is, is that. 01:37:27
We have spent a lot of money on the corridor master plan or the lakefront master plan where it's like a dog park and they went in 01:37:34
and looked at that. 01:37:38
Half a million or. 01:37:43
A viewing structure or an all abilities part and so many people will ask me questions on. 01:37:45
In the city and be like when am I getting the all abilities park or when am I getting this? 01:37:51
And me knowing the finances for being here, I'm like. 01:37:56
Do you realize for 12 years we have saved for justice a $1.8 million fire station and that's it? And it will trigger anything 01:37:58
because the money just isn't there? 01:38:03
To be able to do it. 01:38:08
And if you look through the corridor master plan of like different promises. 01:38:10
A Community Center, and we're paying to design that. Or pickleball courts. 01:38:15
Or, and these are promises, can you tell me what you mean by promises? 01:38:19
Well, we've hired a consultant. We've gone out and asked them what you want to dream up in a city. 01:38:23
And then we presented it to. 01:38:29
Of here's a philosophical idea of this is what this is our plan and we've documented in the book of this is what we're going to be 01:38:31
doing. 01:38:35
And we haven't even like just like on a fire station. And that's what I'm saying is, is like. 01:38:39
Publicly, we're going out here and I'm going. We are one of the poorest cities due to our tax base. 01:38:44
And we're already twice as much in tax rate, but. 01:38:51
We're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in planning. 01:38:54
And dreaming. 01:38:58
And this is just the corridor project. 01:38:59
When you get into the master front, we are talking about building multi $1,000,000 Piers. We're talking about building restaurants 01:39:01
on them. 01:39:05
We just submitted this 90 days ago to the state. 01:39:08
And saying, hey, why don't we dredge the lake? I had somebody asked. It was like 13 million just to get to that. 01:39:12
And I wanted to show this. 01:39:18
I walked out there last year when I looked at it and I was like. 01:39:20
Do you realize the vineyard has no ability to be able to pay that? But yet we're dreaming and we're putting this into the paper. 01:39:23
And saying that this is going to happen. 01:39:29
And I'm being villainized by saying, guys. 01:39:31
This just isn't going to happen. We have to get a fire station, right? 01:39:34
And it was in the paper and I think. 01:39:38
I think Karen mentioned that of like. 01:39:40
You know, I'll have a resident call me saying we're building a helipad or even a City Hall. 01:39:44
You know, going and meeting with Orem and. 01:39:49
And all these entities that have these things. And I think, Sarah, you said that in your Facebook post of like. 01:39:51
We wanted, we want to dream up this big appetite. 01:39:57
And I agree with you, it's like we don't have that. 01:40:00
Ability to be able to do that right. 01:40:04
And what brought us to our knees is this fire station. And it's such a small house. It's only 1.8 million and only 6 dedicated 01:40:07
offices. And I'm grateful that all five of us aligned and say, hey, this is something that needs to get done. 01:40:13
But I was here in Vineyard when the 12th West Fire Station was brought forth many years ago, and it needed to happen. 01:40:21
And so my parents and my family. 01:40:28
Have built to which is awesome. 01:40:30
And I know we have a master plan that's going to come into that talking to the chief. 01:40:33
But the residents of Vineyard that are currently here right now. 01:40:37
We should be able to say that we have paid for our fire station now. 01:40:41
And we need to be putting an impact the ice. We spoke with them yesterday. 01:40:46
Of saying the residents of Utah city and those. 01:40:49
When they go through and do it, that that next fire station within them and all the public safety of that side of the city. 01:40:52
Will be paid for by them. 01:40:59
Because that's only proper. We can't put that on the backs and to have. 01:41:01
Again, I know you guys are. You think I'm villainizing Utah City and I'm not. 01:41:05
I just you get into the books and you go. It needs to be fair and so I hope in our discussion today. 01:41:09
That we go, hey, you know, this is this is what we can accomplish. Can I just say something? Yeah, Last year I noticed that in 01:41:17
council meeting and I look at all these master plans and all the money that was spent. 01:41:23
On master plans, I was like, Oh my gosh, that's ridiculous. Why do we spend that much? 01:41:29
I've since learned that it's actually really valuable. 01:41:33
We have that in the capital project, a public. 01:41:37
Safety master plan. 01:41:41
So, so there's things that we can do going forward. We're still. 01:41:43
Relatively new as far as governments go. 01:41:47
And I would hope that you guys would understand the fact that we've only had three mayor's and all of this is. 01:41:50
New, and there's going to be mistakes and there's going to be things that we do right. 01:41:57
And if we can be patient with each other and bring suggestions to the table. 01:42:01
I will tell you 100%. 01:42:05
The suggestions that I've made since I've been on the council have absolutely been considered. 01:42:07
To a point where it's actually been kind of surprising. I expected different. 01:42:13
And umm, so that is happening and master plans are. 01:42:17
Important because they help you know what you need to do moving forward. Well, and I'll lean into that just a second. 01:42:22
We did the master plan so that we can phase them because I think we cannot afford to do them all at once. But if you don't plan, 01:42:29
somebody said it, you plan to fail and so. 01:42:34
We are planning in order to phase in projects so that the quality of life of the residents will be meaningful. 01:42:40
OK. Can I add that if we would have done a safety master plan? 01:42:47
Eight years ago it would look very different than what it would look today or even six years ago. 01:42:53
Maybe 8:00 to 10:00, but what I'm I'm agreeing with Mayor Farmer and we have done a lot of different studies that have allowed us 01:42:59
to keep charging these impact fees and this one. 01:43:04
Has been in conversation and is already being planned for. 01:43:09
And I'm excited and grateful that we can have it. 01:43:14
But I'm actually really grateful that it hasn't been accomplished yet, because I want to make sure that we are able to charge 01:43:17
developers exactly what we should be charging them through a current study of what our current layout is. 01:43:23
And then we're going to grow and have to amend and adjust as we get bigger to make sure that we're still getting all those fees 01:43:29
from. 01:43:33
And impact fees as well. 01:43:36
It's better if they're staggered, it's better if we are able to. 01:43:39
It's very important to have these studies and it's very hard to watch. 01:43:46
And hear people say plan, but then I also don't want to spend money on studies or plans. I don't think I'm saying studies, I'm 01:43:50
saying that. 01:43:55
Percent agree with that, but what your logic is is that. 01:44:06
You can always adjust the public safety master plan year to year and do a small little study and say hey this isn't high enough 01:44:09
but Can you imagine doing all? 01:44:13
All of the studies that we want all at once. Our budget. We would have had to raise taxes 8 years ago. 01:44:17
No, I I like because these studies are like, I think we budgeted 75,000 for this. 01:44:22
Public safety master plan to do I don't know how many impact few categories that are. 01:44:28
But I imagine it's close to half a dozen. 01:44:34
To do all of those studies at once would have been a huge right, but. 01:44:36
Burden, let me finish. 01:44:41
A huge burden on the residents. 01:44:43
Earlier And yes, of course we need it now. And I'm not looking to criticize the previous council. Maybe they should have done it 01:44:46
four years ago. 01:44:50
But I'm not looking to criticize the past. I'm looking to move forward. 01:44:54
And get these things accomplished now. Well, and I agree with that. 01:44:57
What I would just say is that. 01:45:03
When looking at any of these plans, and I printed off quite a few different books, I want you to look through them of like the 01:45:06
Abraham and a skate park we paid a. 01:45:09
A skate park person. I met him in the Idaho Association Cities event. He goes, oh, I planned a skate park in your hook. 01:45:13
And I was like, oh, and everything was 10 like 5 to 15,000. I was like. 01:45:22
And then just the planet, right? And then it was like. 01:45:27
How much was it to build it? And I'm like, we don't. 01:45:30
So what I'm saying is, is that we don't know where we're going and yet we're. 01:45:33
We're paying just these plans. 01:45:37
To dredge the lake and go through and do it. 01:45:40
Where we do not have the tax base and our focus as a city has to stop all of this and we have to. And to Natalie Harbin's point. 01:45:43
We have to go. When I met with her it was like tax based economic development businesses we have to get back to. 01:45:51
Be able to go through and all of these other things. There's an aft. It's like a chicken before we have to. 01:45:59
Get that tax base first and foremost. 01:46:06
Before we because I get so many citizens saying this is all that is happening. 01:46:09
And I go, we have $8 million in our total budget. This is never going to happen. And I don't want to be the mean negative angry on 01:46:15
Facebook like. 01:46:19
You know, but I'm the realist of it of like what it is, right. So and then just in closing, like. 01:46:23
We need just like we're doing the fire station before we go and pay. 01:46:29
I'll bet you we've got millions of dollars in planning of ideas that we could never do just. 01:46:34
And what we need as a council to. 01:46:41
Umm, nothing will ever be. 01:46:46
Started to pay a consultant. 01:46:48
Until we come before the residents and say, hey, this is what we're going to do because. 01:46:51
Some of these things, that's just. 01:46:56
This isn't gonna happen. 01:46:58
My last that is, that is the process though, like to do a plan, we vote on it together. So I really want to commend you for being 01:47:00
concerned about what plans we're doing. And that's why you're here on the council. If plans come up and if they're on the budget 01:47:07
and you don't agree with them, you have said and if, if all of us agree, then we even if we disagree, we all talk it out. 01:47:14
And so we all agree that the public safety master planner impact fees to be done, though there's also a Parks and Rec study, I 01:47:21
believe. Is that what it's called? 01:47:25
That that's being done because that could possibly be an impact fee that we could also add to it. 01:47:30
And so there's a lot of plans, but you're talking about plans that were already done. 01:47:35
Which you can have an opinion on that and not agree with previous councils. 01:47:40
But you were elected and you can change that. And just, I think just talking about it in general. 01:47:44
It doesn't feel productive. Let's talk about plans that are currently on this current budget and then we can decide and I'll get 01:47:51
to the current thing, but I just want to change the culture within our city and educate because from this chair. 01:47:59
No one ever helped citizens understand the dire situation and if it continues to grow next year it is going to be. 01:48:06
Another attack, Property tax grace. Another property on the backs of our citizens. 01:48:15
And we're going to be continually throwing up these maps of this is coming and this is coming in. 01:48:19
We just need to be realistic, so I agree with you on that. 01:48:25
Can I say two things? First of all, I don't think it's appropriate for council members to talk about people in the audience. 01:48:28
And clean. They know their viewpoints or groups or viewpoints. 01:48:35
Oh, I was just saying she was wonderful and saying I needed to focus on economic development. These master plans are the. 01:48:39
One of the best ways we have to get citizen involvement. They're the ones that bring the people together and let them give that 01:48:46
feedback and help us understand. 01:48:49
Right. I think the analysis though is that I was raised as a dirt poor farmer and when you go and you know, we didn't even have a 01:48:53
car, right, Dad? 01:48:58
And uh. 01:49:03
When you go out and ask citizens what they want, thinking that they can go and afford the world like we're going to go to Italy, 01:49:04
it's just not in the car. 01:49:08
For financially of what Vineyard could ever afford because we don't have the tax base and you have to tell people. 01:49:12
That that's what it is. And so we have. 01:49:18
Now we can all come together and that's why I said when our offering and retreat in February was. 01:49:21
We all better be meeting right now weekly. 01:49:29
With the RDA, we should be putting a citizen council together. 01:49:32
I would love those that ran against her different ideas to come through and say how do we get a Costco? How do we get it so we can 01:49:36
go through and do that. That should be all of our focus. 01:49:41
Within the city. Bueller Go. 01:49:46
I understand that the dream to be able to draft all of these things up and but in this budget we last year we just added another 01:49:48
planner to plan, right. 01:49:52
And so we're going to be doing more plants to plan planting and I looked at the budget and I go, I don't see it so. 01:49:57
Did you have another slide? 01:50:03
Yeah, what I was just gonna end with and it's not a slide, but it's. 01:50:04
Just learning and I and I and I echo your feelings, Marty, where you go? Hey, I'm not here to. 01:50:09
You know, what can this current council do? And we just can't bash the previous council and that's not what we're here today. But. 01:50:15
I'm a history person like no other, and you're gonna repeat it if you if you don't learn from it. 01:50:22
And in October or November last year. 01:50:29
Where we were like. 01:50:32
Survey Software 87,000. 01:50:33
Or Sage Consulting, our lobbyists or World Trade Center. 01:50:36
Or X Factor. Those are all baked in. 01:50:39
But if we would have known or understood or been more transparent, people would have sounded the alarm and we would have known. So 01:50:43
like putting things in place where people know much more above and beyond, we wouldn't be in that place. 01:50:49
Now this year. 01:50:55
I'm not going to call the Budget Committee, but the citizens that advise me now. 01:50:57
I just want to say thank you for all of them that put that effort in. 01:51:02
And it is difficult, but #1 cutting our increase as a City Council, we don't need to get paid more. 01:51:05
The Planning Commission isn't paid. The bike Commission isn't. 01:51:13
The merit, the I I believe the merit increases for the time being and also out of state travel. 01:51:17
Could be cut for a year. 01:51:24
Also in meeting with Orem. 01:51:26
And there is some debate on is this City Hall going to be 30 million or 50 or 20? 01:51:29
We've learned through this whole exercise that even a $1.8 million City Hall is just breaking our community in terms of finances. 01:51:34
So how does it 10? 01:51:38
And you could leverage it. You could go and say, hey, we're going to put all of our tips in the back. And every single city 01:51:43
manager said, I can't even believe that you're talking about this. It would break your city. 01:51:48
So taking that and we asked or submitted. 01:51:53
To Eric and said, hey, can we take that? City Hall $2,000,000? 01:51:58
It is already a money. 01:52:02
The RDA money has been used outside of the RDA on Hold Waste Rd. sewer it's been used on. 01:52:04
Forum Centre St. Overpass, half of it. 01:52:11
So, legally, can we? 01:52:13
I think it's called define that is infrastructure to move that City Hall since. 01:52:16
We know over 5810 years away from affording a City Hall. 01:52:22
To not plan for it. 01:52:27
Right now and and do that on the City Hall and then. 01:52:30
The other thing I think is the culture needs to change is I've never driven a car. 01:52:35
Our truck. 01:52:38
With less than 75,000 miles and I think it it, you know, I think. 01:52:41
It's a good standard that we get brand new cars every three years. 01:52:46
And I know over a three-year period it makes sense. 01:52:50
You know what? 01:52:54
Some of the best people I know drive cars 1015 years and they drive it till they're older and some of those cars. 01:52:55
Our F-350 S and. 01:53:01
There's things that we can do to extend those cars. 01:53:03
Be able to go through that. So those are those are the things that. 01:53:06
I think that we could cut. 01:53:09
And then I would just ask for those that met with me, were there any other cuts that I was meeting that we met with that I need to 01:53:11
cover? 01:53:14
OK, so those are those are things and we. 01:53:18
Wholeheartedly support the fire increases and everything if we could cut those things. 01:53:22
But also, just as a council, learn. 01:53:26
Of our of our dire situation. 01:53:28
And talk about it as in our dire situation, I think we'll all get, we'll all move forward and. 01:53:31
I think this is a forgiving. 01:53:37
Community. 01:53:39
I think sometimes we frame, screen frame so we can be heard and I appreciate extending the offer to you guys on some cuts. 01:53:41
Have you been in any of the meetings regarding City Hall and the partnerships around that and sort of the trajectory? Yeah. I 01:53:48
mean, I, I went to Saratoga Springs and Orem and I got the general overlook. 01:53:54
No, OK. And it's not something. 01:54:01
If you want to come and talk to me, I met with NASIM and we went over the leasing option and it ends up actually costing the city 01:54:05
almost nothing. 01:54:09
So I'm happy to go over that with you too. 01:54:12
The money, the equation is based over a three-year period, as if we wanted to get new cars every 3 to 5, right? 01:54:14
10 year periods releasing those cars for 10, that's not what the contract said that I saw is over three right in the same. 01:54:22
The assessment for cost. The cost benefit analysis of leasing versus purchasing. 01:54:29
Is based on a 10 year span. 01:54:35
And they compare the cost of purchasing cars over that 10 year span. 01:54:37
Versus leasing on a three-year lease? 01:54:42
To own. 01:54:45
And the the the the analysis comes back with the lease option being the least expensive option for the city. 01:54:46
And so when you compare purchasing and keeping long term. 01:54:54
Versus leasing and keeping them for that three-year window? 01:54:58
If you can. 01:55:01
If it costs less to lease and keep them for a three-year. 01:55:02
Versus purchasing and keeping them for longer term? 01:55:06
The wisest choice, in our opinion, is to go with the cost that is less. 01:55:10
I'd love to sit down and see the numbers. We cracked it. 01:55:15
Umm, you know, I've sold at auction vehicles for 17 years with the public group. 01:55:18
And the numbers that we ran on the analysis didn't show up, but I'm more than willing to sit down and go over those and. 01:55:24
OK, great. OK, Marty. 01:55:31
Go ahead. OK. 01:55:34
There are several points. 01:55:37
Throughout this meeting and. 01:55:39
Hopefully I don't miss any of the ones that I really have knowledge and ability to respond to. 01:55:43
This budget and the tax amendment and. 01:55:50
Or the budget specifically we've been working on for quite some time. 01:55:55
And I want you all to know that it is something I think at this point with this tax increase and with our budget. 01:55:59
I didn't write it down, but I think I'm at at least 100 hours of examining everything, meeting with different people, talking to 01:56:06
different residents. 01:56:10
And um. 01:56:14
It's definitely something that has been painstakingly difficult. 01:56:16
And it was disappointing and it's a fair statement, but it was disappointing when. 01:56:20
The statement was made that our decisions already been made. 01:56:26
Because this is something that I've been working through. 01:56:29
So so. 01:56:32
Intently and. 01:56:34
Sleepless nights. 01:56:36
I've had to refill my Ambien prescription and I. 01:56:38
I I'm embarrassed to admit I cried at one of my meetings because I just thought, man, if I could take this budget and if I could 01:56:41
find this deficit that we need for the fire station, I could be like the town hero and I could go and save everybody's pockets. 01:56:49
No one wants to pay more taxes. I don't want to pay more taxes. Can I afford it? Yes, I can afford it, but can everyone else know? 01:56:58
I am concerned about our community and the people that can't afford a tax increase and I do hope that we can find them resources 01:57:03
and tools. 01:57:07
But what it comes down to is when I sat in that meeting, specifically the one where I cried. 01:57:13
There's no crying in City Council. I just want for the record, I've never done it before. 01:57:19
The point is. 01:57:24
If we don't make some kind of adjustment now first time in 22 years, then we're doing this again next year or the year after. And 01:57:26
what we're looking at is we have to hire. 01:57:32
So we saved, we planned and saved and were able to pay for this fire station out of our savings. 01:57:38
The new fire staff and then the two additional police, It's 1.5, which was a compromise. 01:57:45
The 1.5 deputies, so we hired one in July and we're hiring one in January. 01:57:53
But to hire 6 new firemen and the 1 1/2 deputies, we're looking at $1.1 million. 01:57:58
So what our city staff has done is they went and took out of our general fund. Did I get that term? 01:58:06
Correct. Our general fund, we had an excess where we had been frugal enough that that money had been set aside. So instead of 01:58:13
doing a $1.1 million increase on our community, we were able to get it down to $600,000. 01:58:20
And I know that's disappointing and yes. 01:58:28
My whole goal was can we find $600,000 from the budget so we don't have to do this increase, But then the very next thing is next 01:58:30
year we have to hire another six. So we're looking at 12 new firemen and that does not. 01:58:38
Somehow we don't have another 600,000 to pull out of our general fund. Our general fund now is that the the minimum balance that 01:58:45
it can be on? 01:58:49
To stay within our bond commitments. Is that correct? 01:58:54
So now we're looking at next year. So let's say we don't raise this tax, we don't do this tax increase this year. Let's let's 01:58:57
pretend we don't. So then we're doing this again next year. 01:59:02
And we're actually in a worser position. Is worse, or even a word worse. 01:59:07
I get, I swear. 01:59:13
I'm so articulate except for when I'm in a large group. 01:59:15
Very intelligent, I think. 01:59:19
We're in a worse position and then the following year we're going to hire another six firemen and I haven't even mentioned what we 01:59:24
might need for police. 01:59:29
So I'm looking at this in the long scale. 01:59:34
The long term. 01:59:38
I walked out of the house and my husband, I snapped at one of my kids as I was walking out and he looked at me and he goes, man, 01:59:40
you're going into this meeting. I was like. 01:59:44
And I said, well babe, I'm getting ready to. 01:59:49
To have people pretty mad at me because I have to make some hard choices and just don't do it. 01:59:51
Just don't raise the taxes. It's fine. Everything will be OK. And I said, well, I think if I don't somehow make an adjustment 01:59:56
here. 02:00:00
In a few years you might hear. 02:00:04
My name in the news, there's some of our city in the news because we're that city that was. 02:00:05
Too nervous or too shy to make a tax increase, and now we're looking at financial turmoil. 02:00:11
That's dramatic. I try not to speak in those kind of terms, but all I'm saying is. 02:00:15
I am a planner and I don't want to take out of our savings to pay for our day-to-day. I don't believe that that is a good business 02:00:20
decision and So what I am saying is my family. 02:00:26
Will pay that 13 extra dollars a month, which I believe I live in a pretty average typical home. 02:00:31
And we will contribute to the community so that we can have this fire station nearby where we can have accessible service, that 02:00:37
is. 02:00:42
To the national standard. 02:00:47
Right now, our deputies, our fire department, sorry, our Police Department. 02:00:49
We only have. 02:00:53
The national standards is to have one officer, one deputy per 1000 residents. 02:00:55
We currently have .75 or 7 three which is fine. Vineyard is very safe but. 02:01:00
We need to be able to keep up. I had a text message before this. 02:01:06
Another concerned citizen that had some really good ideas, but in the end he said, well, have we thought about just cutting fire 02:01:10
and police? And I was like. 02:01:14
What I've learned in all of government and city and taking care of a community is the first thing to go is never safety. 02:01:19
And I'm not willing to say I don't want to put safety as a priority, and I don't think anyone else is specifically saying that 02:01:26
either. 02:01:30
But it's hard when we hear kind of contradictory statements where we want to plan, but we don't want to pay for the studies. We 02:01:33
want fire and fleas, but we don't want to pay for it. And it's this balance back and forth and so frankly. 02:01:39
Sorry for the long monologue. 02:01:46
I feel very comfortable. 02:01:48
Disappointed that this has to happen, they're very comfortable with my decision. 02:01:53
And. 02:01:58
It sucks to be the person that has to make everyone pay more taxes. It sucks to have to even try to justify it to the community. 02:01:59
But. 02:02:03
Fully intend on doing what I think is best for the city as a whole financially and if it means that we're going to have to pay a 02:02:09
little extra taxes. 02:02:13
For a few years and actually it'll be several years until our RDA. 02:02:17
Starts to. 02:02:22
Close. I think we'll have to do it because I moved here specifically because I saw the. 02:02:24
The beauty and the wonderful community that Vineyard has, and I've talked to a lot of residents that might not be here tonight 02:02:32
that have also said we're willing to pay a little extra to be able to have the same level of service or better. 02:02:38
And, umm. 02:02:44
One last thing that I've been wanting to say. 02:02:46
Is I know there's a lot of controversy around our lobbyists and I know that there was some questions like let's have some 02:02:49
evidence, let's get some good results, let's be transparent. Let's make sure that if we're going to take a trip somewhere to do an 02:02:54
economic development conference that we're seeing what the benefits are. One specific celebratory item is we have a lobbyist, we 02:03:00
pay him 100,000 a year. 02:03:06
We paid him 142 last year but he's only entertainer for 42. 02:03:14
What's the correct amount? 02:03:18
It doesn't matter. 100,000 is a good a good point. 02:03:20
OK. Do do we know it it's a two year contract. 02:03:25
We pay them an extra 100,000. I guess what I'm saying is that sees. 02:03:29
Saying higher. 02:03:34
She's saying we're paying higher the amount and she's about to make a point that says even if. 02:03:36
We invested $100,000. 02:03:41
We got $10 million, so the return of investment. 02:03:43
Is great. So what it was is. 02:03:46
The lobby. 02:03:49
No, no. 02:03:50
The lobbyists and the mayor. 02:03:52
And I believe Amber, you were somehow a part of this, went up to the legislature during the session in January. 02:03:54
And they had state appropriations where Vineyard was able to get. 02:04:01
$10 million in funding. Now the argument could be all that's taxpayer money. Would you rather that go to Draper? 02:04:06
That there are so many other cities that could have gotten or so many other entities that could have gotten that $10 million. We 02:04:13
have this $10 million that will help build an overpass. 02:04:17
In Vayner on 1200 N. 02:04:22
OK, we're not going to do it back and forth, but oh, Jake, it's still Marty Stern. Go ahead, Marty. 02:04:25
So what I'm trying to say is. 02:04:31
Let's ask questions. 02:04:34
Call me anytime, message me anytime. I will answer all of them. I think what I want to do is rebuild that trust. I don't want you 02:04:36
guys to think that we're crooked and dagger, that we're hiding things and having backdoor meetings. I have a lot of meetings. I 02:04:42
actually write them all down now so that if anyone ever asks, these are the meetings that I've had, but I'm not going to spend. 02:04:49
8 hours every council meeting making my making the citizens sit and go through my new details. 02:04:56
And I've noticed that when we have these 8 hour long meetings. 02:05:02
People leave and by the end of it they're missing important information. So my job is to prepare myself to come to these meetings. 02:05:07
I'm so sorry, I don't really young. 02:05:11
To come to these meetings prepared with my homework done. 02:05:16
So it's not to have secret meetings, it's to know all the details inside and out so that I can give you a summary of what I feel 02:05:20
comfortable with and if you have questions further from that. 02:05:25
Please reach out to me. I have never refused to meet with a single person. I have had one person that I haven't been able to match 02:05:30
schedules with. 02:05:34
That's it. So. 02:05:38
If you have questions, if you have frustrations with me, I am happy to hear them. Please reach out any other time, anytime. 02:05:40
I'm going to go ahead and take a turn now, unless you have something in response. Yeah, just in response. I just want to clear the 02:05:48
record that. 02:05:51
A city our size doesn't have this lobbyist. And the second I found out about it, I called our representative, Nelson Abbott, and I 02:05:55
said you are our legal representative, Nelson here is the best guy ever. Vote for him. Where? 02:06:00
I was trash talking to Nelson. 02:06:07
We got to use them. We didn't call them once. That's the normal and it's free and he can get us just as much or it's not that $10 02:06:12
million bridge. 02:06:16
We didn't even ask him to do it. We don't need special favors to be able to do it. 02:06:21
It doesn't cost. 02:06:27
A million and a half, $100,000 to get 10 that's not. 02:06:29
The Utah. 02:06:33
You dot the director. 02:06:35
I've done his auction vehicles for years. He will talk to anybody that he wants to and we don't have to be a lobbyist to do so. 02:06:38
All right, let's turn. You got us a bridge, but. 02:06:45
OK, hold on. It's my turn. We're not going to do it back and forth. 02:06:49
Thank you for comment, Jake. 02:06:52
Just in response to that from my perspective. 02:06:54
We did actually go to our representatives. Senator Keith Grover sponsored it. He took it through the process. He worked with our 02:06:57
lobbyists. 02:07:01
And it was a really great unified effort. We've been able to hire this lobbyist that's worked for. 02:07:05
A very good value and like Marty said, with an incredible return of investment, not just this 10 million, but year after year 02:07:11
showing things like $16 million for the Vineyard Connector. We have a lot of infrastructure in the city that's state 02:07:17
infrastructure. And so working within the parameters and getting them to move ahead on their timelines is a very significant thing 02:07:23
for Vineyard and we've been very lucky. 02:07:28
To talk about taxes. 02:07:35
And come back to it before we go back to the budget. 02:07:37
I think it's important that the atmosphere of this public space is that we offer these public hearings so that we can receive 02:07:41
questions and comments, and that as you go through the records, you'll find that we are often giving reports that sometimes when 02:07:47
these hard things come up, you're probably not reading. 02:07:52
But if you want to see them, if you want to see reports on why we are investing so much in economic development, why we feel 02:07:58
business tax is important because it offsets property tax, why we felt it was important to invest in things like EDC, Utah World 02:08:03
Trade Center. 02:08:09
The Chamber of Commerce, things like that, We have those types of reports to look into, but we're looking at the RDA. There was a 02:08:15
comment that was made. 02:08:19
About where we started when this project area was created, and Christie said it really well, she said. We're different there's. 02:08:23
Almost 75% of our city is encompassed in this area. Center St. North is in this project area where we had a remediate A. 02:08:30
A steel plant. 02:08:42
And so Jake was saying we locked in at a base revenue. So this all. 02:08:43
Of these taxing entities got together and said, you know what, we're going to give 70% of that money. 02:08:48
And. 02:08:54
That increment, well, let me explain from the beginning. 02:08:55
The lock in the space revenue, that's the bottom, that's what everybody is paying at the time. Then they'll say any increment on 02:08:59
top of that that's built, any value that's created from that land. 02:09:03
75 or 70%? 02:09:09
Will go to the RDA to put in infrastructure. 02:09:11
Help with economic development and do that cleanup in order to attract. 02:09:15
Companies to come here and people to live here. 02:09:19
To create the city that we have. 02:09:23
And so there as you're looking at sites like the Megaplex. 02:09:25
There was Marty actually asked for this data and they came in and they showed that that base revenue since the time of 02:09:29
implementation of the project area to now that base revenue went up 24 times. And you can see this as we're bringing in the 02:09:36
economic development, as we're cleaning up these sites, as we're laying the infrastructure that we're talking about and investing 02:09:42
in this. That's how this is going to keep happening and we're going to keep doing this so that that increment. 02:09:49
We'll build our community, bring in that sales, effect that business tax and offset these property taxes when we go to the next. 02:09:56
And that's, that's an important part of. So what are we using these dollars for this 30% that's on our side? 02:10:04
100% of that property tax that comes to us. 02:10:11
Is for police and fire. 02:10:14
That's all. 02:10:15
And Christie said in 2000 or last year. 02:10:16
That full property tax that we get, that 30% that comes to us on this side. 02:10:20
It paid for 83% of our fire and police. 02:10:25
Now we're having our tax rate go down again. 02:10:29
Because property values are going up. 02:10:32
And that's a 24% reduction. And so we are losing. 02:10:34
We're going from 83 to 59% coverage, and so we're saying the tax rate is going down, but we need to adjust. Utah Tax Association 02:10:39
for Utah advocates for lower tax taxes in Utah. 02:10:46
They say there's not a whole lot of reasons for recouping, for raising your taxes, but the one thing that they do agree is that we 02:10:53
need to recoup inflation. And we've gone up 24% inflation and we've gone 32% down in our tax rate. And so we haven't been 02:10:58
recouping it. 02:11:04
But like we were talking about earlier, all of these things are phased and planned. 02:11:10
At the time where we need them to reduce the burden on the citizens. 02:11:14
So right now, we're in a structural deficit that means all of our operational costs, all of the things that allow us to go. 02:11:18
When the economy is high or low, those are the things where we can spend a little bit extra money putting in a roundabout at 600 N 02:11:25
or not doing it when when it's not. 02:11:29
Doing so well. 02:11:34
But we do need to recoup inflation and right now one of our costs, our costs are going up because we are building a fire station. 02:11:36
We've been saving. We were able to pay in full, but now we have a team. 02:11:41
And we have two police officers that we need to pay for and to keep that level of service that means so much to us. 02:11:47
Somebody mentioned waivers. 02:11:55
And working on that. And I'm glad Representative Abbott is here now. You know they're talking to you because that's state law. But 02:11:57
we'll all be working with you to talk about what our residents want. There was a petition that came in that said they they didn't 02:12:02
want to see this because they're on fixed income. And I think that's meaningful. And you'll be the first person that we come and 02:12:07
we take that to. Tony has a copy of it that we can get to tonight. 02:12:12
I think staff and level of service, there was a graph that came up and it was showing the budget cuts. 02:12:20
That came and that it wasn't meaningful. It was a wish list, but I want to talk about why I think it's meaningful. 02:12:25
So each year we go through a budget process and we talk about all sorts of things that residents want. 02:12:30
That staff feels like they need in order to maintain and keep the level of service that we have today. 02:12:35
And things come in from parents who are having their kids go down slides and they're it's too hot. So like shade sales, things 02:12:41
like that. 02:12:45
Sarah had mentioned it in the post. 02:12:50
Other things come in where we need people over sewer or we need sewer systems and all of these projects are being phased. So it's 02:12:52
it's not just a wish list, it's infrastructure. 02:12:58
It's the type of police coverage that we have. 02:13:03
It is things that you guys are coming in actively, people that I see in the room today. 02:13:07
Asking for. 02:13:12
And all of those things are what we're saying. We're going to wait on this. We're going to cut this. 02:13:14
We're going to make sure that we're not. 02:13:19
And diving into that budget because? 02:13:21
We are keeping and maintaining. 02:13:24
Conservative spending here and there's a few metrics that we base that on when you're looking at the Utah Taxpayer Association. 02:13:27
And it's one are our extractions from residents going down as population is growing and as we're spending. And that's something 02:13:33
that we sewed at the open house. But it is, and I don't know if we have those pictures here, but that's something that we are 02:13:39
doing now you can see as population has been leveling out the last two years. 02:13:45
That our amounts. 02:13:51
As we go for a fire station, A6 member team and two police officers is up. 02:13:54
It's because we're making an injection of capital into what we think will keep the level of service needed for this community to 02:13:59
make sure people get to your homes or in 2019 you can see a little bump that goes up. 02:14:04
In our extraction from. 02:14:10
Of taxes per resident and it's when we bought the Linden property to put out the public workstation so that we could mall the 02:14:13
grass and take care of the snow plowing and do all of those things. 02:14:18
On these these graphs are available for you. They're made public. 02:14:24
And so that you can really delve into them. Another one that was measured was how much are we taking? 02:14:28
Per $1000 of the average median income. 02:14:34
And what we're spending is below $12.00. 02:14:38
And that's meaningful because our. 02:14:42
Since we since 2017 as we looked at the numbers. 02:14:45
What residents are making average Their average median income has gone up since that time. 02:14:50
That's something that the Utah Taxpayer Association looks at. 02:14:56
Taxes in the county, it said. We have the highest taxes in the in the state and I just wanted to reference that it's in the county 02:15:00
and that each. 02:15:03
Each city does something different. Provo has the airport that they have to deal with. We, Christie mentioned Eagle Mountain was 02:15:07
very. 02:15:11
Small on taxes but then was very close to us when they were paying for their public. 02:15:15
Safety. 02:15:20
And. 02:15:21
And that's why those comparisons are so difficult. Marty mentioned the bond rating and I wanted to just clarify really quick 02:15:22
because somebody mentioned that we might be bonding for this. And I just wanted to talk about we already have bonds for things. 02:15:28
And in order to maintain the rating that we have, so we don't have to pay more and take more from the citizens or put a burden on, 02:15:33
we have to keep a certain amount of money in our rainy day fund. 02:15:39
And right now? 02:15:45
Because of these costs that we're doing to make sure that we complete our contracts and get a fire station and hire the team that 02:15:46
we need, we're at 17%. 02:15:50
And so we want to say even if we took all of the suggestions that you guys were talking about tonight. 02:15:55
Off and we didn't phase them in from year to year to make sure people aren't waiting at 600 N. 02:16:01
Or that it's safe to cross in certain areas. Or that your kids could slide down the slides without getting burns. Things like 02:16:07
that. Even if we waited. 02:16:10
Those things would just go back into our Operation rainy day fund to make sure that we gave you a stable count for 22% instead of 02:16:14
17% so that next year we could have. 02:16:21
As we look at these projects and we keep building and growing as a city, we can keep maintaining that and have and be fiscally 02:16:28
conservative so that we're not doing tax increases every year. 02:16:34
And there was a news article that came out that said. 02:16:39
Utah has the highest tax increase out of the five municipalities. 02:16:42
That you're doing a tax increase in Utah County and what it didn't mention is that like was stated here tonight, we haven't done a 02:16:46
tax increase in 22 years, so that since like 2002. 02:16:51
And. 02:16:57
And what that means for us and, and all of these other entities have been doing incremental tax increases when they found it was 02:16:58
important to them, when they suddenly needed to build a Community Center, they did these increases and they've they've 02:17:04
continuously done it. That's why Amber said, can we do it more often? So if residents don't want to want us to see, want to come 02:17:11
and tell us, hey, we want you to get rid of all of this stuff because you're again considering this. 02:17:17
Residents will be able to come in and and share more and tell us what to do better as we're spending so it becomes a more 02:17:24
transparent approach. 02:17:28
It it almost feels like white you want to have this conversation again, but it was really to say this is one of the only ways with 02:17:32
a tax revenue. 02:17:36
System to come in and tell your city whether or not they're doing a good enough job with spending. 02:17:40
And then economic development. 02:17:46
Sometimes there's conversations, I mean, I talked a little bit about why those things are important and maybe I'll just leave it 02:17:48
with her because we've gone long. 02:17:51
But I too am in support of this. 02:17:56
Tax rate adjustment, I think it's necessary and I think we'll provide stability year over year for the people of Vineyard. We've 02:17:59
been anticipating it for several years years now, phasing it in after 22 years to recoup that kind of inflation loss. 02:18:06
It's really important and to make sure that Vineyard is set up for success for the rest of. 02:18:13
Vineyards, growth and generations to come, we need to make sure that we are. 02:18:19
We are spending properly. 02:18:24
And that we are honest about the realities that we're facing as a community. 02:18:27
And one of the realities that we started the discussion with is that our city is built on an RDA, was created on an RDA. And those 02:18:31
are the cards that we have and that we're dealing with. And it's going to, if we do it right, if we're honest, then we and we put 02:18:36
these things forward and we raise taxes when we need to and we're conservative on our spending like we should be and like we have 02:18:41
been. 02:18:47
We will continue to do things like the Megaplex site where we are. 02:18:53
Increasing that base value by 24%. At this time, I'm going to go ahead and take a motion. 02:18:58
Sarah, you had a time, did you? Or did you want to talk more? We all took so much time and you were so concise, as was Amber. OK 02:19:05
then I need a motion. Could I just say real quick that we can all disagree civilly and still get along on this particular issue 02:19:11
and that we don't spread hate or anger? 02:19:17
And that we put a lot of time into and I respect all four of your guys''s votes wherever I wouldn't question your integrity on 02:19:22
where you came down on. 02:19:27
Looking at the same numbers and. 02:19:33
Like Sarah said on our post, she put a lot of thought into it and Marty's well, and I respect a difference of opinion, right? 02:19:35
And I'd like I'd like that to be echoed from everyone. 02:19:41
Like even though we did sign, you know? 02:19:45
I'm pretty loud about the perilous finances of our city and. 02:19:47
I just want to make sure that anyone that. 02:19:52
Support maintains that decorum. 02:19:54
Thank you. Can I get a motion? 02:19:57
Yeah, Does it not have a Russian food? 02:20:06
I move to approve Ordinance 202409 as presented. 02:20:11
All right, can I get a second? Second. 02:20:16
This is done by roll call. 02:20:18
That first by Amber, second by Marty. 02:20:20
There was number discussion. 02:20:23
We have a lot of discussion. OK, Jake. 02:20:25
No Amber I. 02:20:28
I, Marty. Sarah. 02:20:32
Yes, all right. 02:20:35
That brings us to 9.3 discussion and action adoption of the fiscal year 2024-2025 budget resolution. 02:20:38
Can I get a motion on this? 02:20:46
I thought this was two weeks from now. 02:20:48
I thought we were going to get two weeks to kind of go through that, no. 02:20:52
It doesn't have to go. 02:20:57
I don't know if there's been agenda for today. 02:21:00
I saw it on the agenda, but I thought, I thought that that was just a conversation. I didn't think that that was a vote on it. I 02:21:03
thought we got two more weeks we could. 02:21:07
Today is a vote, but you could ask for additional time if you wanted to. 02:21:11
So the mayor's assistant or other thing, there's nothing that we can do. I think you guys have saw even the. 02:21:18
Things that you suggested, shades or travel? 02:21:26
Nothing. 02:21:31
Of the ideas just. 02:21:32
Are you looking at me both anyone I think there are you asking for discussion? Are you asking for I think we've thrown out just 02:21:33
different ideas that. 02:21:37
The group of our budget committee, whatever you're calling it, like just a group of people. I'm, I'm OK with continuance because I 02:21:42
expected it into as well. I did go over and compare. 02:21:48
The two that that. 02:21:53
The working budget with the one tonight and they're they're the same and I'm fairly confident, I mean. 02:21:56
We went through it with. 02:22:03
With I don't know if I'm supposed. Can I say her name? I don't know anyway. 02:22:06
That works in government, finance and C. 02:22:11
Yes, he agreed that it was very conservative. 02:22:15
So are we voting on this now that this box is in for the 2 million to start the City Hall though? 02:22:18
So you're setting aside the 2,000,000 RDA? 02:22:24
And clarification, assisted savings account, right? It's not that we're committing. I'm not ready to commit to a City Hall and 02:22:27
that hasn't been committed. So we would have to vote. 02:22:31
To move forward with that. But even that idea of using it for the fire station though? 02:22:36
Well, that's just a point of clarification. That is the RDA budget, I know, not the city budget. OK, thank you. 02:22:42
Would you guys like to discuss this now or are we trying to wait for two weeks and continue to the next meeting? 02:22:48
I feel you know. 02:22:56
Jake is on motion. 02:22:57
To discontinue it. 02:22:59
To continue it to two weeks, I will make that motion. All right. Can I get a second? 02:23:02
Second. All right. First by Jake, second by Sarah. Any discussion? All in favor, aye. 02:23:06
All right, did we need to name the actual date or is 2 weeks sufficient? 02:23:12
OK, great. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. 02:23:17
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