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All right, thank you all for being here this evening. Today is August 14th, 2024. The time is 536. We're going to go ahead and 00:00:13
start our City Council meeting. 00:00:20
Councilmember Fuentes will give us a invocation and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:26
Our Durkin Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. We are grateful for our community and for our 00:00:35
staff and for the hard work and relationships that have been built. Please bless and. 00:00:42
Help us make good decisions tonight, and help us. 00:00:49
Be calm and level heads that we can understand one another's concerns and we're so very grateful for this wonderful country we 00:00:52
live in. Please bless our servicemen and please bless and watch over those residents and people inside and outside of our 00:00:58
community who are in need. Help us know how to find them and help serve and be that. 00:01:04
That caring support. And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:11
All rise. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. 00:01:20
To the Republic from which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:26
Exactly. 00:01:42
All right. 00:01:45
All right. 00:01:50
As our next meeting is going to be starting at 6:00, I'm going to go in the order of this agenda that I feel will take us there 00:01:52
and get us there on time. So we're going to start off with our consent items. 00:01:58
Council, I need a motion. 00:02:06
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:02:13
I have a first by Amber. Can I get a second second? 00:02:17
Second by Marty. All in favor, Aye. All right. 00:02:20
That brings us to public comment. 00:02:25
If there is anyone that, excuse me, if there is anyone that would like to make a public comment that is not about the certified 00:02:29
tax rate adjustment that's coming up. 00:02:35
You may come to the podium, state your name, you have two minutes and we will hear your comments. 00:02:42
Kim Cornelius Vineyard resident I'm just curious why we started at 5:30 instead of 6 so that's all I need to know. 00:02:56
Thank you. 00:03:05
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:03:15
Just going on this consent item that you just approved on the approval of the City Council Special session edited minutes of 00:03:19
August 7th, 2024, I asked for City Council to reconsider their decision on changing the form of government. Unfortunately, my 00:03:26
reasoning was edited out. The reason is because I feel that we do not have the money in the budget for a vote and the money to pay 00:03:33
for a salary for new council member at this time. 00:03:41
I would appreciate those words being entered into the record at this time. Thank you. 00:03:49
Thank you. 00:03:55
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:04:08
As you probably know as a. 00:04:13
That have met as a. 00:04:15
As a group of concerned citizens regarding the budget and we've met with Eric on two occasions and we recently received an e-mail. 00:04:18
Letting us know that it is not appropriate for him to meet with us, that he feels that it is a partisan discussion and that we 00:04:27
should seek legal counsel regarding that so. 00:04:31
My concern is how is trying to save? 00:04:37
The residents of Vineyard money a partisan issue. That's my first point. My second point is, and I'm going to quote this from the 00:04:42
e-mail that he sent, the appropriate forum for such discussions involving city residents, staff and council members is our public 00:04:49
council meetings, which are open to everyone and ensure transparency. 00:04:57
Open to everyone for two minutes. 00:05:05
So to tell me that an open meeting with a city staff member? 00:05:09
Is something that we can't do, but we can have two minutes at a City Council is really troubling. 00:05:15
Because if we really want to have informative discussions, things where we learn and you learn, 2 minutes is not sufficient. And 00:05:21
that's what I wanted to share. Thank you. 00:05:26
Russell Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:05:39
Yeah, My comment kind of piggybacks off of Karen's on that comment. This is the meeting to bring forth this kind of stuff. She's 00:05:42
already addressed A2 minute part of it. I'd like to address the part where we don't get answers to questions real time. 00:05:48
We used to get that and I thought that was very useful and informative. Like Kim S question, why are we meeting at 5:30 and that 00:05:55
could be answered in 10 seconds, but instead we have to wait and maybe get get an answer later. And my wife asked questions all 00:06:00
the time and she does not get answers to all of them. 00:06:06
And so that's failing. And also when we do get answers, often it leads to follow up questions which we can't ask because we didn't 00:06:12
get an ask, it didn't get an answer real time. 00:06:17
And so that's my concern is I think we should be able to get answers when when they're available. I realize some answers you don't 00:06:22
have to research them, but some answers we can get right away. And it just would, I think help the way it used to be. I thought it 00:06:28
was very, very useful and beneficial. 00:06:33
And I just like to remind everybody to roll the same team. 00:06:39
We're all Vineyard residents. We all want a good place to live. And and you know, I've said in some of these meetings where I just 00:06:43
walk out shaking my head at some of the comments that have been said in a in a bad way. I think we can disagree in positive ways 00:06:50
and work together compromise. We can we not always going to get our way. I realize that. 00:06:57
But I just like to see us. 00:07:04
Really work hard and really consider one another S opinions and. 00:07:07
Be transparent so we can all know that it's what we're seeing is is so we know what's going on. And thank you for the comment. 00:07:13
Thank you. 00:07:18
OK, are there any other comments? 00:07:28
If not, I'll go ahead and close the public comments. There were a couple things, Eric, I don't know if you wanted to address. 00:07:32
Kim's comment, I mean Karen's comment, we are holding this meeting at 5:30 because we are holding a public hearing that's noticed 00:07:39
and obligated to be done at 6:00. So we have to finish all business before that time. 00:07:45
Thank you for your comments. Otherwise, I don't know if this is the time or if you'd like to address that outside this meeting. 00:07:53
I'm happy to address the question. 00:08:03
One of our council members holds a campaign group through his political group, Politico Group, and that group has formed a. 00:08:06
Committee or a group that. 00:08:20
That are that one council member uses to provide feedback to him on political issues and and and other issues, including financial 00:08:22
guidance. But that is very much a a group that that our council member has formed that a line in in. 00:08:32
In beliefs and. 00:08:42
Purpose behind his campaigning efforts. What I would like to avoid is. 00:08:46
Starting to mix the lines between campaign type activities. Which city staff are not supposed to engage in campaign activities? 00:08:52
And and legitimate questions. And so This is why, This is why there is a division between our elected officials. 00:09:03
Staff in the public so that our elected our elected representatives. 00:09:11
Can interface with the residents of our city and be a resource of information on what is happening in the city. So we our 00:09:17
expectation is that our our our City Council members interact with us frequently and and in as as many meetings as we need to be 00:09:25
sure that each of you are well informed. 00:09:32
And then you, as representatives of the city, can go back to the residents and provide answers and information and explain why 00:09:41
we're doing what we're doing and really kind of have those important, engaging conversations, but that as soon as as we start 00:09:48
gathering with council members, staff and residents. 00:09:55
Especially if those engagements are with particular groups, that's where we might get ourselves in trouble. And that's what I was 00:10:03
trying to get at in that information. I don't know the the legalities of it close enough and that's why I suggested getting legal 00:10:09
feedback on that. 00:10:15
Thank you. Can we get legal feedback on that, Jamie? 00:10:23
The follow up question is. 00:10:27
Being characterized as a political group, there's many people on the committee that are not part of the Vineyard political group, 00:10:31
namely Daria Evans is not a part of the and they were, they, there were four people that were selected and we went through the 00:10:38
approval process of deputizing the four, the, the, the people that we said, hey, these are going to get access to the finances. 00:10:44
And you said, yes, as long as they're your advisors, they can help you. 00:10:51
So is he able to block? 00:10:59
Who I have advised me to come in. 00:11:01
I mean, there's, there's four people that have extreme expertise. Kimberly Olson is a CPA. 00:11:05
David Larae, who's been to more planning sessions than anyone else. 00:11:15
Daria Evans has been to more City Council meetings than anyone else and Sean Herring, who who has the largest background in 00:11:20
development in the city. So all four were were picked. Now there were others that said, hey, if you want to come, but why would a 00:11:26
city manager be able to eliminate who I have advised me? 00:11:33
In a meeting. 00:11:40
You are able to have you're able to consult and liaise with whoever you would like to inform your judgment as a member of the City 00:11:43
Council. 00:11:47
The issue as I understand it is whether. 00:11:51
You, along with whichever citizens you wish to have with you. 00:11:56
Have the right to. 00:12:01
Consume staff time to have these discussions. 00:12:04
And whether that is a sanctioned or official committee of the city, it's not definitely not an official. I mean, there's, there's 00:12:09
a little bit more I'd like to answer and I'm happy to answer any follow-up questions. 00:12:15
There there's a process in city code that lays out how committees are formed and how commissions are. 00:12:22
Formed. There's different types of groups that have different functions. Some cities will have a Finance Committee that's 00:12:30
comprised of members of staff and members of the council. The city could form something like that. That would be the subcommittee 00:12:39
that would roll up its sleeves to get more in depth and spend more time on budget issues and financial issues than what you spend. 00:12:47
During a council meeting, the limited time that we're together each week. 00:12:56
But the the real aspect of what this group was doing that is a concern to me is the use of this term deputized. 00:13:00
They are not deputized or authorized to do anything on behalf of the city. And when you talk about deputized, to me that has 00:13:12
significant legal meaning because it means they act with the same authority that a member of the council would have or that staff 00:13:19
would have. And that just simply isn't the case. Now, I don't mean by that to. 00:13:27
Minimize the importance of staff involvement or the care that or not staff involvement, citizen involvement. 00:13:36
Or the care that these citizens may have for the city, that that may be real. 00:13:44
But it needs to go through the proper channels and I I fear it's a little bit out of order. 00:13:50
To have a single council member quote deputize people. 00:13:57
And then expect that those individuals will be able to call on staff. 00:14:02
And meet with staff whenever they wish, um. 00:14:06
I think that's helpful. The the word deputized was selected by the state auditor, not me. He's the he asked me, he used that term 00:14:10
to be able to share the Ledger or any finances since we were going through the finances of so I could be very careful and I think 00:14:17
deputize is just can I share the finance, the finances that are shared and if we need any training of like what they can and 00:14:25
cannot do, like not posting on social media or something like that. 00:14:32
And I would also show that I think, you know, the state has an assessment where we're graded on if we have a state of a citizen 00:14:40
committee that I agree that the the council, the state wants us to have a selected by everyone, but that was that. 00:14:50
That offer was rejected like to create that and so we just did a smaller of these are advisors that are kind of helping me to kind 00:15:02
of depoliticize the effort and bring the experts to help. So it wasn't any effort and so if we need to walk that legal line so 00:15:08
that. 00:15:15
Those that are of the most experts are can be there that's needed. I mean, I don't know why we wouldn't afford that to me to to be 00:15:21
there. And if we have to go through protocol of what they can and cannot do, obviously I don't think if they are crossing the line 00:15:29
of asking things for staff that would be inappropriate. But almost all of that's been through me and it was very limited. So we 00:15:36
can clean that up. But I just don't want the ability of saying we're not ever going to allow you know, advisors or. 00:15:44
That are in the city to be involved in the process. I think that sends a bad message. 00:15:51
I appreciate that you're the city managers role is to manage the time of staff and make sure that they have time to do their jobs 00:15:56
and to carry out other functions. 00:16:00
I think it's within his right to push back if he feels like meetings are consuming too much time or not happening in the proper 00:16:06
order. I'm happy to advise you on kind of an issue by issue basis of what you can and cannot share. You can. 00:16:13
Liaise with whoever you'd like to inform your judgment before you come to council meetings and vote. That's different from. 00:16:21
Demanding that citizens or that non council members or non employees be permitted to participate in meetings and have free access 00:16:29
to information. 00:16:34
I think one of the things that we should address in this is that while the state auditor may have mentioned that they needed to be 00:16:40
deputized, the I think the discussion was that we were unable to just deputize your specific group. And that if it if we wanted to 00:16:47
create something, it would need to go through the formal process. So if that's something the council wants to address, I'm happy 00:16:53
to bring that forward one, one more. 00:17:00
Footnote I should add to this is that the auditor does have a risk assessment and I'm familiar with that and one of the things 00:17:07
they will look at on the risk assessment is whether you have a quote. 00:17:11
Audit committee. I don't equate the audit committee with the function that you've had this citizen group performing. Typically an 00:17:16
audit committee is a subset of the City Council with either staff or contracted auditor that can inform financial decisions, 00:17:24
financial protocols and that is something they consider when they look at the risk assessment. 00:17:32
I, I would, I would agree with that. I would just say that the, the state auditor was very clear that I can choose. I mean, it 00:17:42
would be very strange, Mayor, Madam Mayor, for you to pick who does or does not advise me, right? He was very clear that I get to 00:17:49
pick. No, absolutely. I don't think that's, let me clarify for you so you know, and then you can tell me if this is wrong. You 00:17:56
could pick whoever you want. If you wanted the council to deputize them, it would go through a formal process. 00:18:03
Where it would be a committee for the whole city. If it's just a group advising you, we wouldn't deputize them. Yeah, I think 00:18:11
we're talking about two different things. Yeah, if it was going to be an official city committee, I understand that that would 00:18:17
definitely be a deputization of that. We're not discussing that. What we're discussing is, is this committee simply got together 00:18:23
and got passed documents of all of the past budget and did an audit of last year's versus this year. So it's definitely an 00:18:29
auditing of exactly what. 00:18:35
You know what, what went on and we found a lot of disparities of, you know, because of their expertise, some of these people have 00:18:41
been going to meetings for 8-9 years. 00:18:45
Religiously and so having the experts in the room is is something that I would definitely safeguard to have. 00:18:50
Yeah, I I think you're right. We were talking about two different things. I just wanted to make clear that if the auditor wanted 00:18:58
us to deputize, something would have to go through a formal process. And you're more than welcome to bring on any advisors that 00:19:04
you want to keep. With time, I'm going to have the rest of the City Council share. 00:19:09
Their one minute is all you have briefing on your reports and then we can close so that we can start the next meeting on time. 00:19:17
Sarah. 00:19:26
I just, I just wanted to say that. 00:19:35
In regards to the conversation we've just had. 00:19:40
I feel like umm. 00:19:42
When we all agreed that that Christie, we all voted that Christie was the right person for the job. 00:19:44
And I, I just want to say again, I feel like she's the right person for the job. We've come in many, many times and she's been so 00:19:51
patient. And every question I've had for her, I've, I've, yeah, gone through item by item and I've requested different summaries 00:19:58
of cuts that have been made and. 00:20:04
And things that I know take her extra time. But everything I've asked her to do, she's done and she's answered all of my 00:20:13
questions. 00:20:16
In in reasonable responses. So to me, I feel like I feel like staff is doing a really good job and they've been completely open 00:20:20
and completely transparent. 00:20:24
And I really appreciate it. 00:20:30
So thank you. 00:20:32
Marty. 00:20:34
We were I was able to meet with the Flagship and Woodbury Flagborough Coordination meeting and Huntsman Cancer Institute. 00:20:39
There's just a lot of conversation and discussion on design and layout and progress. We did have the grocery store and the 00:20:50
Firehouse on the Planning Commission meeting and that was exciting. It'll be coming back next week for more details. Specifically, 00:20:57
we're talking about the grocery store on that one and there is some discussion about the drive through pharmacy at the grocery 00:21:03
store that the city will need to change some. 00:21:10
A code ordinance. 00:21:17
So that we could allow that, if the Council so chooses, Marty, will that be on the next Planning Commission meeting as well? I 00:21:20
believe so. 00:21:24
Can you, can you repeat that, Marty, to put on the corner? 00:21:30
Discipline is that the text amendment would take longer that would need a reboot through the planning commission's City Council 00:21:33
couple months on that but the actual site plan for the grocery store so. 00:21:39
So what it is? Is that our current. 00:21:45
I think you just said it, but our current code doesn't allow Dr. throughs in the downtown area for the grocery store specifically, 00:21:48
I'm not sure how it all details, but the they're going to approve the site or change the site plan so that it can start moving 00:21:54
forward without delay. And then we will be responsible to change that so that if we desire to have a drive through with our new 00:22:00
grocery store for the pharmacy, we can have it. 00:22:06
OK. And then the other thing is the Alpine School District had their truth and taxation meeting last night. They did approve a 00:22:15
number. I am still getting through that meeting as I work today. I. 00:22:22
From what I understand is it I hate seeing this on a recorded thing. 00:22:29
They said the person that reported back to me on the board said that it was a lower rate. But I'm trying to fully wrap my head 00:22:36
around bond levies and everything that that entails. So I'm not going to commit an exact number for you because I feel like it 00:22:41
might be unrepresented and not representing correctly. But I highly encourage you to watch the recording for the school board. 00:22:47
It's. 00:22:53
The work session makes it very long, so maybe multitask while you do it. OK, great. Amber, did you have anything? Yes, Bike 00:22:59
Commission is currently working on their bylaws and they did a review of Bike Month, which was in May, and it was very successful. 00:23:05
And I'm excited to say they're already planning next year's and I think it will be even better. The library's also working hard 00:23:11
and I know they're getting their fall programming together, so keep your eye out for events like coding classes, science, and 00:23:16
reading time. 00:23:22
And the community garden is growing, so take a moment to step step over by Gammon Park and check the vegetable. Stand and leave 00:23:28
veggies and take some. 00:23:32
Awesome. Jake, there is about 30 seconds to a minute left for you as well. So we'll get it. Just go if you get a minute in. So I 00:23:37
just additional, yeah, I just want to say thank you to Marty. 00:23:44
For her prayer of openness and listening, I thought it was great. I also read. 00:23:51
Sarah's post on Facebook about trying to understand the vision and I hope tonight's meeting is. 00:24:00
Challenging in terms of questioning, but also thinking. And then lastly, I think to echo Sarah's comments, Christie was wonderful 00:24:07
in all of our meetings and we know we questioned a lot of things on a lot of things, and she's just such a wonderful person. And 00:24:13
so I think as we go through this, let's not make sure we attack people, but we challenge different ideas and concepts as we come 00:24:19
out of it. So I echo that too. 00:24:25
All right. This brings us into 9.1, our public hearing on our certified tax rate. Christy, our Finance Director will start out 00:24:32
with a presentation to get us going on the public hearing. Yeah, is that right? OK, let's go ahead and go into the public hearing. 00:24:40
I need a motion, so moved first by Amber. Can I get a second? 00:24:48
Second. Second by Marty. All in favor? Aye. All right. We're now in a public hearing. 00:24:56
Mayor, can I note just for the record of the meeting that it it is now 6:00 PM, the law requires us to hold these hearings after 00:25:02
6:00 PM, so I want to make sure that's noted Perfect. And it's exactly 6:00 PM. 00:25:07
Go ahead. Something is exact tonight. That's wonderful. 00:25:14
I think many of you, this is maybe your first truth and taxation hearing. I know it is for me. I know it is for several of the 00:25:19
council members, Jamie, maybe you're the only one that has been to these enough that you are really familiar with what goes on. 00:25:26
I wanted to take just a minute. 00:25:37
And talk about, I think most of you are familiar with the budget. Many of you came to the open house that we had last week and 00:25:40
asked very good questions. And so I'm not going to go through the budget thoroughly, but I did want to talk about what we are 00:25:46
doing here tonight. The county gives you a certified tax rate every year. And if you determine that you need more revenue than 00:25:52
that allows you, then you say no, we're going to do a truth and taxation hearing and we need this, this dollar amount or this 00:25:58
percent in order. 00:26:04
For our city to balance the budget and that is what is happening this year. Vineyard has never done a truth in taxation hearing 00:26:10
before to my knowledge. So like I said, this is new for a lot of people. The slide that you see up there is the certified tax rate 00:26:19
from 2017 to 2023. The rate that we are recommending for this year for 2024 is the same rate from 2019, it's .003369. 00:26:29
Just another slide to show you what's been happening with our tax rate versus inflation. I think everyone is very well aware of 00:26:40
what has been going on with inflation on This graph shows you how the tax rate has continued to decrease as inflation has 00:26:46
continued to increase. And so we have this large gap that we are now trying to correct some of that to bring our spending more in 00:26:52
line with that. 00:26:57
If you're not aware, for every dollar that you pay in property taxes, Vineyard City gets $0.30 of that. 00:27:06
58 cents goes to Alpine School District, 8 cents goes to Utah County and four cents goes to the Central Utah Water Conservancy 00:27:14
District. 00:27:18
So when we talk. 00:27:24
Property tax allocations on your property tax notices, you will see that while vineyards percentage that we're asking is higher 00:27:26
than Alpine school districts, Alpine school districts dollars is actually more because the rate that they get is higher. So I just 00:27:33
wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page and understanding that. 00:27:40
This slide describes the situation that we find ourselves in. The first pie is our city budget. 00:27:50
And you can see that the police and fire take up a huge portion of that city budget with parks, public works admin, finance, all 00:27:57
of the other departments taking the remainder. Again, that's the pie on the left. 00:28:03
The pie on the right is what is required for our public safety budget. 00:28:11
And what you can see is the blue, that is how much of our budget, our property tax budget will cover public safety with the tax 00:28:17
increase. You'll see some examples down below that second pie chart. I'm showing what will happen this year. We were able to fund 00:28:25
83% of our public safety using sorry, last year. Thank you, Eric. Last year with the property taxes for fiscal year 24. 00:28:34
With the tax rate adjustment that we have asked. 00:28:43
And the increases that have come to us, we are now only going to be funding 71% of the public safety with that. 00:28:46
With that, with the tax rate that we've asked, if we do not do the tax rate adjustment, we are only funding 59%. 00:28:57
Of our public safety. Now with that, I wanted to talk briefly about taxes. 00:29:03
Why? Because many question many people have asked why do property taxes have to pay for public safety? 00:29:09
And the answer is, in short that property tax is the only stable revenue source that we have. If there are slight changes in the 00:29:15
OR if there are changes in the economy, it's very slight changes in the property tax. 00:29:22
Versus an elastic revenue like sales tax. As the economy grows and shrinks, so does your sales tax revenue. 00:29:29
So our goal is to to pay for as much of our public safety using our stable revenue source as possible and that's why we have asked 00:29:37
for that. 00:29:42
Another question that has come up quite a bit is comparing to other cities. 00:29:49
I'm going to show you an example here of why this can be misleading, but I also want you to just vineyards different. No other 00:29:56
city is in our situation that has RDA the size that we do that is growing like we are. You just, it's really hard to compare to 00:30:03
other cities because you're you're not talking apples to apples, you're talking apples and oranges. So, and this is just an 00:30:10
example I wanted to show you. So if I want you to look down at the bottom and see where Eagle Mountain. 00:30:18
Is on their tax rate. So if you went on you talk to our tax rates Utah Gov you would find this information and it would say that 00:30:25
for 2023 Eagle Mountains tax rate was .000524. 00:30:33
What? That doesn't tell you, though. 00:30:42
It did not take into account that Eagle Mountain contracts with the Utah Fire Authority for their fire, which is not included in 00:30:45
their property tax. 00:30:49
So if you take into account Utah fire authority and their tax rate, it puts them up there at #3 as you can see. So again, this, 00:30:54
you can't look at the raw rates and say, oh, we're comparing apples to apples because we're not. There are so many little things 00:31:01
like this that can get in the way and make things misleading. 00:31:07
Like I said, Vineyard is just different. We have different political climate, we have different goals, we have different 00:31:16
amenities. We have a different desire for services, the level of service that we expect. And so we really shouldn't compare 00:31:21
ourselves to other cities. 00:31:26
Umm, I wanted to just touch briefly on the RDA. A lot of people have said, does the RDA affect our what we bring in property 00:31:34
taxes? It does. 00:31:38
However. 00:31:43
This decision was made way before you and I. 00:31:44
It was voted on, it was thought to be the right thing and we can disagree on whether it's successful or whether it's doing what we 00:31:48
want it to do. 00:31:52
But the fact is it's here and we can't dissolve it. And so until the RDA agreements end, we will have a higher property tax rate. 00:31:57
That is just that's the way it is. So again, I ask you tonight as we talk about things that you keep in mind that Vineyard is 00:32:05
unique. 00:32:09
We are different. There's no other city in the whole state of Utah that has an RDA that has 75% of the property. 00:32:13
Is within the RDA. 00:32:19
I just oh sorry, this I had this comparison. This just goes to show you several examples of how this property tax rate could 00:32:24
affect your home. We did a home value of 330,550 thousand and 850,000 and you can see the annual increase also broken up by month. 00:32:35
So. 00:32:46
Just a few things to remember before I close. 00:32:49
There have been many months and hours, blood, sweat and tears put into this budget by by council, by staff, by citizens who have 00:32:52
been involved. And I just ask you to remember that as we are making our comments tonight, because there has been a lot of work 00:32:59
that has gone into this. We are not a private entity. We are government entity. And as such our budget is different. Government 00:33:07
budgets are lean. So you can't go in and say it. We're going to cut across the board a certain percentage because the budget. 00:33:14
Are already lean. 00:33:22
Lastly, I want to make sure that everyone is aware. We are aware that there are people and individuals and families that are on 00:33:26
fixed incomes and that if this becomes a burden, Utah County does offer a tax relief program for those that will be burdened by 00:33:34
the tax increase. So please keep that in mind. We are aware that there are people that will need to take advantage of that. 00:33:42
Again, what are what our city pays and property taxes should in no way be decided based on what other cities pay. 00:33:52
We are definitely a unique city with our unique tax needs. 00:33:59
And so I feel that the question tonight is, are we going to fund the fire and police or not? 00:34:03
Thank you. 00:34:10
OK, With that, it is now your time. So please come to the podium, state your name, where you're from and what your comments or 00:34:12
question. 00:34:16
And Tony will put your time limit up. Can you raise your hand if you're thinking you're going to make a comment? 00:34:23
Also, for anyone out in the hall, there's about a dozen seats in here. Please come in. 00:34:29
OK. Thank you. 00:34:35
Yeah, it's I'm going to put it at 2 minutes. 00:34:38
Go ahead. 00:34:44
If you have something that needs more than two minutes just let me know. I'm I'm just calculating to make sure the most voices in 00:34:48
here get to speak. 00:34:53
All right. 00:34:59
Start with making a statement that we're under no illusion in the gallery here that anything we said this Pope tonight is going to 00:35:02
sway any of you for those that are here for the first time or don't come very often. 00:35:08
My daughters grew up with an Easy Bake oven and from my position as a citizen and vineyard, I want you to know that I am fairly 00:35:16
certain that the cake has been baked already and so whatever gets said here is probably not going to have an impact. 00:35:24
Let me reassure you that on the chart that was up there, I looked at my house and it's. 00:35:34
The the assessed value was like 365, but the number that was shown there is almost three times that much as far as the tax that's 00:35:39
going to come out of my impound account every month. So just for information, but the $19.00 isn't the problem. The problem is, is 00:35:44
that. 00:35:50
We're rooted in our city government here with an element of distrust because things have always not have not always been on the up 00:35:56
and up. I feel like there's been a lot of misguided decisions made, and I'm just going to focus on one, a brand new $50 million 00:36:03
City Hall. 00:36:09
About two months ago, a group of a small group of U.S. citizens went to Saratoga Springs. We met with the city manager, we met 00:36:18
with a council member and another department head, and the city manager took took great pains to help us understand their history. 00:36:25
They took over 19 years to get to the position where they could build a $50 million City Hall. 00:36:31
Here's what they have to work with though. 00:36:40
They have a large portion portion of that money, that 50 million, already in the bank. 00:36:44
They have a substantial tax base that draws from Costco, Walmart, Target and many others, and their property taxes are drawn on 00:36:49
60,000 residents. 00:36:54
Now we come to Vineyard Top Golf Megaplex 14,000 residents and we still want the 30 to $50,000 or $50 million City Hall and we 00:37:00
have a whopping two $2,000,000 set aside to start doing the plan work for it. 00:37:08
This is almost a direct quote from the city manager from Saratoga Springs, he says. My question to you is understanding where you 00:37:16
are and where we are, why are you even considering building this City Hall? 00:37:23
We didn't have an answer. 00:37:30
So my suggestion is that we've got two $2,000,000 set aside. 00:37:32
That's RDA money. 00:37:37
If that's a structure above ground, is not under the ground. 00:37:40
That money could be moved over and pay for our Firehouse. 00:37:43
That could potentially free up money to pay for other things. It probably could help us balance our budget without going to the 00:37:48
citizens. 00:37:51
Now, to me, this is the epitome of a misguided decision, so I leave that with you for consideration. Thank you. 00:37:55
Mayor Fulmer and members of the City Council. My name is Brent Gray and. 00:38:07
Well, I'm the youngest president of the 55 plus community and Vineyard. 00:38:11
My parents have done a really good job in raising me and teaching me how to be independent and. 00:38:16
For those of you who don't know, I have full spectrum autism. I am on 4 psychotropic medications, I'm on Medicare and Medicaid. 00:38:22
Pretty much I am God's experiment gone wrong. The state of someday when my parents are no longer here, the house that they have 00:38:28
paid for will someday be mine. The state of Utah. 00:38:35
Utah County Alpine School District and Vineyard City need to help not only me, but the citizens of our community who are on low 00:38:41
and fixed incomes. 00:38:47
It has become very clear to me that the state legislature and Utah County have worked together. 00:38:53
To increase our property taxes. 00:38:59
I make $15,000 a year. 00:39:03
Our property taxes if this rate. 00:39:06
Vineyard passes this rate. 00:39:08
Is going to be $4000 per year. 00:39:11
Can someone tell me? 00:39:14
How increasing the How increasing our property valuation puts food on our table? 00:39:16
When my parents are gone, how am I supposed to live on 15,000 a year and pay for this increased property value? 00:39:22
And you're also telling me the county, the state is telling me that I have to pay 100% of my Social Security income on property 00:39:31
taxes? 00:39:36
In 1776, citizens threw tea in the Boston Harbor for less deception than that. 00:39:41
Supposedly, we have one of the lowest state income tax rates in the country. That may be true, but folks, we pay a heck of a lot 00:39:48
more in property taxes as a result of that cut. 00:39:53
Finger pointing and accusation need to stop. 00:39:58
Part of the state, the county, the school board and the city. 00:40:02
I believe that Vineyard needs to help us reduce and remove property taxes for the disabled and senior citizens on a fixed income. 00:40:07
Instead of proposing a tax increase. 00:40:16
Even though the excuses made that we should not be discriminating against specific groups. 00:40:19
I want to also address a comment that was made earlier respectfully by the finance Manager here in Vineyard. 00:40:25
Utah County makes 0 exceptions for people with disabilities. You have to have served in the military. 00:40:31
Become an injured vet, an active member, be over the age of 66, or a surviving spouse to get any type of property tax relief. That 00:40:37
is discrimination at its finest. 00:40:43
While I have been told that Vineyard property taxes have increased, have not increased. They have gone up every year since 2014. 00:40:51
With all due respect, Mayor Palmer. 00:40:55
In 2014 they were at $600.00 per year. 00:41:01
At this year alone. 00:41:04
They're increasing the $3700. 00:41:07
To say that Vineyard Cities property taxes have not increased again, Mayor, with all due respect, is misleading. 00:41:11
My study of history has taught me that we the people. 00:41:18
Created the government. 00:41:21
Not the government created the people. 00:41:23
I asked Vineyard to please listen to We the People. Thank you. 00:41:26
Thank you. 00:41:31
Terry Ewing. 00:41:38
Sorry. 00:41:40
Resident of Villas. I work for American Express, Toyota and Honeywell Aerospace and never did we approach a time when the 00:41:41
financial outlook was a concern that we didn't hear about it first. 00:41:47
They held global meetings early in the fiscal year to show us how the. 00:41:53
The economy was impacting us. 00:41:59
How about about the shortfall and what was constituting that? And about future outlook? 00:42:01
And then they told us what they were going to do about it. They would announce any or all of the following There's going to be a 00:42:07
freeze on hiring. That meant new hires or backfills or if somebody dies. 00:42:13
Freeze on travel? None. There would be no bonuses for that year, no new projects could be made unless first approved, suppliers 00:42:20
were being asked for cost cuts, and there were other things as well. And all of this was done so that they could would never have 00:42:27
to ask their people, the employees, to take salary cuts. 00:42:33
During the last nine months that I've been attending these meetings, I have heard none of this. I didn't even hear the words bond 00:42:40
rating until two weeks ago. Yet it's just okay to ask your citizens during this horrible economic crisis, when prices for 00:42:46
everything are going through the roof, to come out of their pockets first. 00:42:52
And they don't even know what you're doing with their money. 00:42:58
Citizens have an absolute and fundamental right to transparency. According to Google and I quote, organizations with poor 00:43:02
governance often lack transparency in their decision making processes, financial reporting, and communication with stakeholders. 00:43:10
Let's not be that organization. Your citizens are the stakeholders. 00:43:18
And when your stake holders volunteer their time to assist in finding ways to cut spending and get pushed to the side, they should 00:43:26
at least have the courtesy of being heard. We have spent millions of dollars for beautiful renderings of a city that we won't see 00:43:32
for years. We can't afford a permanent fire station, let alone a City Hall. Everything is contingent upon something else happening 00:43:38
first. 00:43:44
We have enough beautiful renderings. We have enough had enough planning. The only plans we need now is how to bring revenue to 00:43:51
this city. And let's buy American first. We don't need to sell our souls to any foreign countries. And if some citizens need to 00:43:59
give up shade sales, a few new trees or plants along Center St. overpass or a temporary roundabout, so be it. 00:44:06
Maria Evans, Vineyard Resident Last week I wore my 20 year old dress. Tonight I'm wearing my tin because I'm living within my 00:44:27
means. I. 00:44:31
Tonight I come before you as a concerned citizen. I am not a member of any Vineyard political group. 00:44:37
I just want to make that clear. And Jake was very kind, saying I'm an expert. I've been attending City Council meetings since 00:44:45
April of 2022. David Larae has been around a lot longer than I have. So he's the expert, not me. But thank you for that kind, 00:44:51
those kind words. I'm here to share with you. 00:44:58
The people that live in my community. 00:45:05
And several of them are here tonight. It's so wonderful. 00:45:08
I felt like I needed to visit the members of my community. 137 signatures. People in my community are opposed to this tax 00:45:13
increase. 00:45:18
And I will tell you why, because many of them are on fixed incomes like Brent was saying, some of these people may receive a COLA, 00:45:25
a cost of living adjustment, but certainly not 18.84%. That's Russ would say and I. 00:45:34
Some of the people, some people might think that. 00:45:44
10 to $18.00 increase a month is not that much, but it might be to those people of my community. That dollar amount might be 00:45:48
needed for prescriptions or other medical costs, food, utility bills, insurance and other such needs. 00:45:56
An 18.8 tax increase is becoming a burden that is getting too heavy for them to bear. 00:46:04
Myself also. These people enjoy living in our Oasis of a community. It's a beautiful community and we love it and we want to enjoy 00:46:10
it for as long as we can. 00:46:16
I believe that we still can trim some of our budget like Terry suggested the shade sails. 00:46:22
Probably should never been approved if there wasn't money available and merit increases and COLA amounts should have been asked 00:46:29
for before a vote was taken to approve. I would like to know the dollar amount of the COLA increase in how much money was awarded 00:46:35
for merit increases. I'm sure the audience would like to also. 00:46:42
I would like to know who conducted the performance appraisals and how many employees received merit increases. Please remember to 00:46:48
be compassionate with aged because one day you will be aged too. That's George Washington Carver. Thank you very much. You're 00:46:55
welcome to take this. I will give it to you. 00:47:01
Tony. 00:47:08
Give it to Tony. 00:47:10
Thank you very much. 00:47:14
Hi everybody, My name is Justin. I'm coming towards you. Before you today is a concerned venue resident. 00:47:27
You know, it's, it's something where I did my medical training in Colorado and this was that was never a problem in Colorado. 00:48:00
There's a lot more investment in community and safety Nets and in programs like that. And I honestly think, you know, to talk to 00:48:04
any of the bare bones, you know, underfunded psychiatrists that they have to beg to work down here in Utah County and they'll tell 00:48:09
you the state needs to invest more in that. And I think that would be a great starting point that in the cost of living 00:48:14
adjustments. 00:48:19
This and seeing that there's. 00:49:24
It looks like we're managing funds quite well. Why people would want to say let's defund the police, let's defund the fire 00:49:26
department. 00:49:30
Just so we can save some money, Amy, thank you. 00:49:33
I just want to correct the record. I don't think anyone council member has said to defund the police or fire. I think there's all 00:49:40
five of us for. I think what we're going to do during this meeting is we're going to wait until all the comments are done. 00:49:45
Sonny McGrath, Shamina neighborhood. 00:49:54
Apologize. 00:49:57
From employees that are absolutely just fantastic. Christie is wonderful. She I was able to actually ask her some questions. She 00:50:29
didn't even know what I was going to ask her and she invited me to come in so I could ask questions about the budget and the 00:50:36
Ledger. I've asked questions of Sullivan love. I've asked questions. Tony, thank you so much also and different people. And I just 00:50:43
found the entire, you know, city fantastic to to reach out, you know, to precisely to answer my questions. 00:50:51
Open House, I thought that that was a very good and positive experience. I got a lot of my questions answered. Again, thank you, 00:50:59
Christina, for doing that. You've taught me quite a lot and the information is out there. I come to this City Council meetings and 00:51:05
I find that if you want to know the information is out there, we just need to really be paying attention to what has been said to 00:51:10
understand what the facts are and we don't understand to reach out and ask the question. So thank you so much for doing that. 00:51:16
Thank you. 00:51:23
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:51:36
I think we can all agree that this is a sad day and none of us really want to be here. None of us want to be adversarial. We love 00:51:38
Vineyard, we want to make Vineyard work and we want to make us able to work together. 00:51:45
As I think about. 00:51:54
It being a sad day, I asked myself, how did we get here? How did we get to this point? 00:51:56
And ever since I moved here almost three years ago, I've heard nothing but this is one of the fastest growing cities in the 00:52:02
country. 00:52:06
And I believe that. 00:52:10
But knowing that, I want to know where the plan was. 00:52:13
When we fail to plan, we plan to fail. 00:52:17
What I'll tell you. 00:52:20
What I see this city has done to plan for growth. 00:52:23
We have an amazing waterfront master plan. 00:52:29
Millions and millions of dollars will be required to to complete what has already cost us thousands and thousands and thousands of 00:52:33
dollars to plan. 00:52:38
We have a downtown master plan that's beautiful. 00:52:44
But again, we're talking millions of dollars and years and years before we will see that to fruition. We have a corridor master 00:52:49
plan. Again, the same problem. Money, money, money. Will we ever see it done? Now we're faced with needing a fire station. 00:52:58
For $1,000,000 and we're having to go to the pockets of the Vineyard residents. 00:53:08
So. 00:53:14
As I've talked to people, I've read and I've remembered from my past. 00:53:16
I thought, does Vineyard have a public safety master plan? And I have come to learn that we have a whole lot. 00:53:23
A very expensive extensive master plans of which I have copies if anybody wants to see them later, but we do not have the most 00:53:32
fundamental. 00:53:37
Public Safety master plan. That plan would have enabled us to go to the developers. 00:53:42
And to assess them a public safety fee, we've assessed fees for other things, but an impact fee for public safety, I have been 00:53:49
told has not been 1 dime that has not been collected from any of the developers here in this city. And I have to say why. 00:53:59
That makes no sense when we knew that our growth was going to be some of the fastest in the country. 00:54:09
I had a conversation today with the Fire Chief in Orem. Wonderful man and I think we are so blessed to have him working with us. 00:54:16
But he shared with me some very important things and that was one of the ones he shared with me because I asked him about that 00:54:26
from my past and he said that Vineyard is the only city he is aware of in Utah County that does not have this and who has not been 00:54:32
assessing developers this fee. 00:54:38
He also shared with me that while we heard from Christie, whom I think is doing a dynamite job. 00:54:45
He shared with me that we that the City of Orem is not financing their public safety at the amount of 80% or 73%. They are 00:54:52
financing it at 50% of the taxpayer money. And even at that, he just went to a meeting in Sacramento where he was asking for a 00:55:02
loan for additional public safety training and Orem's bond rating was upgraded to an A+, AAA Plus. 00:55:12
So they're only able to fund their public safety at 50% of the property tax with property taxes, and yet they were still upgraded. 00:55:23
And that's one of the things that I have heard as a scare tactic here, that if we don't pass this, we will lose our bond rating. 00:55:30
So I would like clarification on that. I feel like I got it from Sergeant Sanderson or Chief Sanderson. I feel like I got that 00:55:37
today. 00:55:45
But then I as I was researching. 00:55:53
Today on this master plan I came across an article. 00:55:57
That was in on June 29th. That was in the Daily Herald. 00:56:01
Where our mayor could be quoted to say, as this fiscal year resets this July, Vineyard has announced a public safety master plan, 00:56:06
economic development strategies, and then she goes on with other things. 00:56:12
That's the first I've heard that our mayor has announced a public safety plan, a public safety master plan. So I'm just concerned. 00:56:20
I don't know that I get every truth every time I ask a question. But I have this article as well if anyone would like to see it 00:56:27
because I don't think that we are being totally transparent. Thank you. 00:56:35
Russ Levin's resident, I'd like to just address my wife did. She went and collected those 137 signatures, almost all of them, 66 I 00:56:56
think were from the villas. We have 154 units in the villas. She didn't obviously get to everyone, but she worked hard and often 00:57:03
when she took half hour to get some of those signatures because some of those people like to talk. 00:57:09
To her, but she did a whole lot of work for that. And I also want to note that there was only one person who declined. 00:57:16
And it wasn't because they supported tax increases is because they said they didn't know enough about it to. 00:57:23
To voice an opinion. So I thought that was a valid information. 00:57:30
But. 00:57:35
And our property taxes are supposed to go up 25 percent, $800, which my sister is supposed to go up $1000. She also lives in the 00:57:38
villas and and. 00:57:44
Of course, not all that's trivial Vineyard. 00:57:50
But these are just the hard things to bear. We have a lot of widows in the villas. 00:57:53
I haven't counted them, but there's a lot. 00:57:59
And we're about to get another one. 00:58:01
Very, very soon likely. And these are hard things. 00:58:03
I also worked for the government Department of Defense and I know about waste. 00:58:08
Back in the 1980s. 00:58:14
You may have those of you around back then. You heard about the $400.00 hammer? 00:58:16
There was a contractor that was selling the government. 00:58:20
Regular hammers. 00:58:24
Because of the way they allocated their costs, they were priced at $400 each. 00:58:25
And that made that made the news. 00:58:29
And then heard about this one guy that oh the IRS 1800 bucks. 00:58:32
So he sent him 5 hammers and told him to keep the change. 00:58:37
The point is, there's things that can be cut. 00:58:43
There's waste. 00:58:46
We don't need all a bunch of frills. 00:58:49
Fact. I'm not a frill kind of guy. 00:58:52
But. 00:58:55
So I'm not saying we shouldn't increase, make some increase, but I'm not sure we need to do the full increase. And thank you. 00:58:56
Hi, I'm Natalie Harbin. I'm a Vineyard resident. And first of all, I just want to make a couple statements. I am aware that this 00:59:11
will be a challenge for those on a fixed income and I I'm grateful that there are some state programs and I hope that everyone 00:59:17
that can takes advantage of those. And I think that there should possibly be some more to include more people. 00:59:24
But I just wanted to make the statement that I think our council and our mayor and the staff are tasked with looking at what our 00:59:30
city needs for longevity and for the long term. So I just wanted to bring up a little kind of anecdote or a story. A few years 00:59:38
ago, a study was completed with farmers and when they were in the season of planting and they didn't have very much, they were at 00:59:45
a point of scarcity. They were not able to make good long term decisions. They were surprisingly, you think when. 00:59:53
Tighter, they would be able to pull reins in and really hold it tightly and make great long term decisions for themselves. But 01:00:00
they couldn't. So those same farmers were revisited after a rich harvest and when they had full pockets and full bellies, they 01:00:08
were able to make really strong long-term decisions. So it just shows us that this scarcity mindset does bite into our ability to 01:00:15
make clear decisions. And so I'm grateful for the expertise of our council, of our mayor, of our staff to not live. 01:00:23
And to pull above this and to make those long term decisions for us, they will always impact. 01:00:31
It will impact all of us differently. And I think, I believe watching how this has been pursued and the time the efforts put into 01:00:36
it, everyone of those outcomes and the pains that we will all feel from this have been considered, but they're being looked at 01:00:43
through the lens of longevity and not obscurity. So thanks for your work. 01:00:49
Mayor and Council. My name is David Larae. I'm a resident. 01:01:14
I find myself very conflicted. 01:01:21
I understand that we're one of the highest taxed communities in the state. 01:01:24
And by all figures, including those we saw tonight, it seems so. 01:01:30
I also understand that we have a lot of burdens in our city that don't contribute to our tax base. 01:01:34
All the UVU property, no property tax paid on that, all of the RDA property not, not very much there yet. And and frankly, if we 01:01:42
keep building lots and lots of housing out there, there may not be much out there still. Hopefully there'll be some, some 01:01:48
businesses that can contribute at the full rate and so forth. 01:01:54
And hopefully that could happen soon. 01:02:01
We understand that we need fire and police protection. 01:02:04
We like to see that happen. It seems to me there that the Council could consider some creative ways to fund those. We understand 01:02:08
also that there are bonding considerations that are being looked at. 01:02:14
It just seems that this is a time when everyone has to tighten their belts and it would seem appropriate for our City Council to 01:02:21
consider more, more means of doing that for our city budget. If we can transfer some of the funds for our for the plan for City 01:02:28
Hall and use those now and and put off City Hall for a year or two. 01:02:35
We're talking about 10 or 20 years in the future anyway, right? So. 01:02:42
It seems to me we could put that off for a little bit of time and use of that now when we have a need now we're we're, we're 01:02:46
hopeful that the future years will have more plenty and less scarcity and that we'll be able to, you know, to do some of the 01:02:51
things we want to do. 01:02:56
But right now, necessities seem to be the things that need to be dealt with and. 01:03:01
And working on covering those things the best we can creatively and but still trying to maintain all the financial obligations we 01:03:06
have to maintain and also keep our our bond rating as it needs to be. We would appreciate that to happen, but please consider all 01:03:14
possibilities for providing tax relief to your citizens. Thank you. 01:03:22
I didn't think this would be such a sad meeting being here, but it kind of is. 01:03:45
I and I think it's really sad. It really is a sad meeting. I'm Keith Holdaway. 01:03:50
I. 01:03:58
As I've witnessed and listened and read and asked questions over the last number of years, I'm not surprised that it's come to 01:04:01
this. 01:04:06
I think everything has led to it. 01:04:12
And mostly because things haven't been out in the open. 01:04:15
There's so much that has been done behind closed doors that hasn't been open to the public. 01:04:21
We hear about things that have happened that's absolutely wrong. 01:04:27
It's absolutely wrong and anybody who is a part of that ought to be embarrassed. 01:04:32
When I hear about. 01:04:38
When I hear about trips to other countries and. 01:04:40
Spending lots of money that we don't hear about before the trips and the goals of it, we never heard a single word about that. 01:04:44
Why? I'm embarrassed. 01:04:53
I'm and I'm sad and I'm angry about it. 01:04:56
We should know what the goals are there. We haven't even heard a report about what we learned and what we have implemented already 01:05:00
from all those trips, expensive trips, nice trips, staying in nice places, eating the nice places and and henceforth we get this 01:05:06
tax increase. 01:05:12
I'm, I'm, I'm really sad and I'm angry that we haven't heard a report. We didn't hear a presentation about the trip in the 01:05:19
beginning. 01:05:23
And and, and, and we can talk about other issues. You know, there's lots of other issues. 01:05:28
We haven't heard about increase in pay of anybody. 01:05:35
It hasn't been made public as far as I know. 01:05:40
And I think it's sad. I think we need to wind it down and we need to be open. 01:05:44
It's just frustrating to me. 01:05:53
And, and we have earned this position right now today. 01:05:55
And it's a sad day in Vineyard because. 01:05:59
When I was sitting on the council, we we didn't spend a dime before it was open meeting and everybody talked about it. 01:06:02
And happy the day that we get back to the olden days. 01:06:10
Thank you. 01:06:14
Mayor, I wasn't going to speak. I have spoken 140 times before the Arizona State Legislature, twice before Congress. 01:06:24
I'm Randy Gray, the proud parent of Brent. 01:06:32
And I'm just. I'll be brief. 01:06:36
I I think it's criminal. 01:06:41
That. 01:06:44
Retired citizens and the disabled. 01:06:45
Have to for the second time. 01:06:49
Pay 100% taxes on their Social Security income. That is double taxation. 01:06:52
And that has to stop. And while we've heard some things here, I've done work in over 50 municipal governments across the country, 01:06:59
in many counties. 01:07:05
Say that if you're on a fixed income or you're on. 01:07:11
Medicare. 01:07:16
You are frozen at the cost of your purchase price on the home for county taxes. 01:07:19
That's another thing that should be considered. So my query and my plea to all of you is we need your leadership. 01:07:28
We need you to help us, especially those who are on fixed income to do this. And I want to acknowledge Marty, who has been now to 01:07:36
at least twice to the Alpine School District boards. I was escorted out of the last meeting. We had over 50 people who spoke 01:07:46
negatively about this. One person spoke in favor of a property tax increase. 01:07:56
And she was a teacher in the system. 01:08:06
Umm, that has to stop. People who are working and have the children should pay the property taxes. 01:08:10
Not my son, not people who have disabilities, and not seniors who are on fixed income. 01:08:19
I'll start with that. Thank you. 01:08:26
Thank you. 01:08:28
Tim Blackburn, resident, vineyard. 01:08:33
I'm going to take just a little different approach to this this evening, talk about budgets and and accountability and not so much 01:08:36
the property increase. I was an employee of the federal government for all my working life, 38 years. 01:08:43
And went through a lot of budget cuts. It was mentioned briefly earlier this evening by another speaker. 01:08:52
Whenever there was a change of administration, almost every four years. 01:09:00
We would, our travel would be restricted, our purchases would be restricted. We would have employment hires. There would be no 01:09:05
merit increases and we went through that routinely. I was a much younger father, had a much younger family and we struggled. 01:09:12
But those were the cuts we had to make in order to live within budgets, rather than increasing budgets in order to. 01:09:19
To meet increasing costs. 01:09:28
So I don't know what all those areas are. I know contracts have already been signed for this coming year and we can't go back and 01:09:31
reduce some of those. But the other area I would like to briefly talk about is accountability. I would hope that the City Council 01:09:38
would hold all of yourselves accountable and the staff for any monies that are spent, for instance, travel. What is the benefit of 01:09:45
the travel? There should be reports given, there should be. 01:09:53
Written reports and verbal reports given on the benefits of that travel, especially if it's foreign travel. 01:10:01
What were the direct benefits to the city of Vineyard? What are the direct benefits to the city of Vineyard to have lobbyists? 01:10:08
Were one of the few cities in and Utah that have paid lobbyists. What are the exact benefits that we get from the money spent? 01:10:16
What do they do for us? Intangible results that you should be able to understand and say they're really helping or not. 01:10:24
Surveys. We pay quite a bit right now for surveys. I've never seen the results of a survey. 01:10:33
In this community, whether they're done by professional company or in house, you ought to have the results of those surveys and 01:10:39
know how they're helping us. There should be accountability for all of those money spent that you understand, and then you're able 01:10:46
to tell the rest of the citizens, citizens of these benefits. Thank you. 01:10:53
Thank you. 01:11:02
Hello, my name is Kayden wrote. And I'm a resident of the Cottonwoods. I wasn't planning on getting up tonight, but. 01:11:07
A lot of thoughts running through my mind as I have heard the comments and listened to the presentation by Christy. Thank you for 01:11:14
that. 01:11:18
I've been involved with the city for a while. I've served on the Bicycle Advisory Commission. I'm currently a member of the 01:11:21
Planning Commission. Last year I ran for City Council and during that campaign I had an opportunity to meet with a lot of 01:11:28
residents. I chatted with hundreds of people that live here and listen to their concerns. And one of the concerns that came up a 01:11:35
lot in my conversations were public safety and fire and having. 01:11:42
A fire station within the city limits. 01:11:49
And that was something that was a big part of my campaign. Another part that I was really trying to focus on was economic 01:11:52
development when we talk about budgets, whether it's for a family or for a city. 01:11:58
There are certain things that are necessities and that you just simply can't cut, and I think public safety falls into that 01:12:04
category. 01:12:09
And for me, I think that. 01:12:14
I was there when you guys voted for the, the Firehouse in my neighborhood actually, and I saw a lot of people, members of this 01:12:18
council included, touting that as a as a win. And we're excited about it. And I agree, I think it is a good thing for the city and 01:12:24
something that that we need, however. 01:12:30
I knew from talking with Orem Fire and with residents and people and city staff that that would come with an increase in costs for 01:12:37
the city and. 01:12:41
I guess my plea to you is that you have the political will to follow through on the decision that you made when you voted for the 01:12:47
the fire station and for the public safety in the city, and that you now take a concerted effort on. 01:12:55
Economic development and getting more. 01:13:05
Growing the pie, making sure that we have have a bigger tax base to be able to fund these things and and not fighting against 01:13:07
growth. I was kind of painted as the growth candidate in the campaign last year. And it's a little ironic that a lot of the people 01:13:14
that fought me on that got up in opposition of this tonight. So I just want to to say that I would love to see economic 01:13:21
development become a focus of this council and growing the pie. 01:13:28
For the city, thank you. Thank you. 01:13:36
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. I live in the Preserve Townhouse neighborhood, whatever you call it. 01:13:47
I would ask that if we're in a situation where you're saying that you need to collect more property tax revenue from my property, 01:13:54
I'll believe you. I would ask that you consider allowing greater flexibility to allow me to live more efficiently. And by that I 01:14:01
mean, currently the city regulates the townhouses, can't build basement apartments. 01:14:08
And the city regulates pretty heavily parking minimum parking requirements. 01:14:16
And So what I'm asking for is to say there's space on my property that I would like to use more efficiently and I would love to 01:14:23
invest more heavily in my neighborhood. And in return, I would love to pay more taxes on that increased development on my 01:14:31
property. I understand this isn't for everybody, but if the options are. 01:14:38
Pay more taxes anyway. That I think should be a viable option. And if you, especially if you're saying, well, your neighborhood is 01:14:46
already built out, it would negatively affect your neighbors in some way. 01:14:52
At least allow greater flexibility in future development. I know that parking is a hot topic and I know that everybody has their 01:14:59
opinion about it, but allowing people like myself to live more efficiency efficiently like we want to is very beneficial for 01:15:07
everybody, especially people who don't want to live more efficiently. Thank you. 01:15:14
We have. We're going to. 01:15:41
Yeah, come on, Karen. I don't see anybody else getting up. 01:15:43
Thank you, Mayor. I had to step outside and take a phone call and I hope I maybe I missed something, but I would just like to 01:15:53
clarify that I have not heard anyone say they are against the fire and the police safety. 01:15:59
We just want to review and make sure that there are no better ways to fund this and that there is no. 01:16:05
Better way to make this workable for this community and that our budget is, as the city manager explained it in one of the emails, 01:16:14
as bare bones as it can get and I think he says it is now. 01:16:21
But as I reviewed the budget personally last night at home. 01:16:30
I have lots of questions still and this vote does not have to be taken for another two weeks, but please understand I have not 01:16:34
heard a single person say they are against the fire and the police safety. Thank you. 01:16:42
Good evening, my name is Corey Toy. Sure. We just moved here from Burlington, Vt where residents have Vineyard now and we live in 01:17:06
the Villas. 01:17:10
And I simply wanted to point out that. 01:17:15
Property taxes are an issue that you must be very, very careful about. 01:17:18
We lived in Burlington for 23 years when he settled and started there, a professor at the University of Vermont. 01:17:22
Our property taxes on our house were $8000 a year. 01:17:29
By the time we left this past year, they were $13,000 a year. 01:17:35
So you must be very cautious in using your property taxes because in Vermont it was used as a way to create and generate funds 01:17:40
that because there were no huge industries, there were no resources that were available for doing other than that. So that's just 01:17:46
my comments. Be cautious. 01:17:52
Thank you. 01:17:58
OK, it looks like there are no other comments so I am going to go out of a public hearing. I need a motion. 01:18:08
So moved. Thank you Amber. Can I get a second? 01:18:15
Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor. Aye. All right. 01:18:19
Council. 01:18:25
We can go ahead and discuss. I know many of you probably want to address some of the comments and then start discussion. I believe 01:18:27
I started with reports with Sarah. So if somebody else would like to, well, it was Jake and then Sarah. So somebody else would 01:18:32
like to start first between Amber and Marty. 01:18:38
OK, go ahead, Amber. I would actually like to know if we can make these truths and taxation. 01:18:44
Meetings are more routine thing, as we've talked about, it's been over 20 years since we had a tax rate increase. And even if we 01:18:50
don't make changes, I think it would be beneficial for the citizens to be able to come into those routinely every year, every two 01:18:55
years, understand what's going on, share their input so that they don't feel blindsided by this. Is that something that we could 01:19:00
do or OK? 01:19:06
I do think it's important that we do this increase. I see the reasons for it, but I understand why it why it is stressful and I do 01:19:13
hope that we can get opportunities for you to feel more involved along the way and have your voices heard. 01:19:20
All right. 01:19:29
I have kind of the the group that we did. 01:19:35
I don't want to just talk about it, I actually would rather share my screen so I have my thoughts together. I don't know when the 01:19:39
great time to do that is. 01:19:43
Is that now? Or is this in a question answer? Because I'd like to share my thoughts using the screen, so should I stand up and use 01:19:48
that? 01:19:52
I don't know the best way to approach that Eric or Tony. I can just share my screen by standing there. 01:19:57
Oh, I can just do it here. 01:20:04
So you can see my face. 01:20:07
I've loved all the comments for and again, and I think those against helped educate us as well. And I like the spirit. I know it's 01:20:13
a somber spirit. You know, it's a feeling. What do I, what do I just turn it on? 01:20:19
It'll activate. 01:20:27
In the bottom. 01:20:34
Share screen. 01:20:38
City Hall. 01:20:43
Or bulletin board. 01:20:44
Is that called? Is that called bulletin board? Does that have an HDMI over there? 01:20:49
City Hall Chambers. 01:20:58
Is that what that is? 01:21:03
While we prepare for this. 01:21:08
I think it would be good to learn about Utah's tax law that is revenue neutral. Christie, I don't know if you want to explain what 01:21:10
it means to be revenue neutral and why we do it. The last question that or the last comment that came in talked about how property 01:21:19
taxes just kept going higher and higher and higher. And I think it might be beneficial to learn about being tax revenue neutral. 01:21:28
While it could be the case that people's property taxes have been been increasing, the vineyard rate has been decreasing because 01:21:39
what the county auditor does when they set your rate is they say what revenue did you use and need this year and what is the rate 01:21:46
based on your value to get that same amount of revenue next year. 01:21:52
So as we grow, the tax rate actually goes down and they say that it's revenue neutral because they set the goal is say 10 million. 01:21:59
If we have 10 million this year and we had 10 houses that were paying that next year if we have 12 houses that are paying 10 01:22:05
million, you can see that the rate would actually go down. 01:22:12
Is that what you were asking? Yeah. And so the overall idea is that if the entire taxing area increases in value by 10%, the tax 01:22:20
rate would decrease, which is what's happening. Sometimes you might find that your tax that you are having an increase when other 01:22:27
people's rates are going down. But for the city since 2017, the numbers are actually going down. Now Brent mentioned something 01:22:34
where our population was increasing. 01:22:42
So we're collecting more as a city to take care of the needs of the residents that are moving in, but the tax rate itself is 01:22:49
decreasing. 01:22:53
So if everybody's taxes or if everybody's property goes up by 10%, then the tax rate goes down evenly. If say there's ten houses 01:22:58
that all went up and that's the full area except for one house went up by 15%, they would see an increase above that flat 10% 01:23:04
increase that everybody went up. 01:23:10
By if there was a house that went down by 5% or only went up by 5% and not 10% then you would see them have a lower. 01:23:16
Value or a lower tax that they would pay. Does that make sense? Did I explain that well, yeah. And the only thing that I would add 01:23:27
to that is that there are 5 taxing entities that have an impact on property tax. And so while Vineyard has not been increasing its 01:23:33
property taxes for 22 years. 01:23:39
Century Utah Water, they make an adjustment every year. Alpine School District have made maybe three over that same period of 01:23:46
time. Tax tax rate increases. Utah County has made at least a couple tax rate adjustments. 01:23:54
And. 01:24:02
Who am I forgetting mosquito abatement. They're probably about the same every year, but but it's these it's this variety of tax 01:24:04
taxing entities that each independently can make an adjustment that you can see your tax, your your property tax rate or your 01:24:10
property tax bill went up this year. 01:24:16
And you want to come attack Vineyard? Well. 01:24:22
In 22 years, that has never been Vineyard making that adjustment to your tax bill. 01:24:25
It has been one of those other five. 01:24:32
So this is the first year in 22 years that Vineyard City. 01:24:34
Is proactively looking at the tax rate and saying we need a little bit more this year and we're adjusting it back to that 2019 01:24:38
rate so that inflation that has gotten out of control a little bit doesn't have the same crushing effect on our buying power. And 01:24:44
it brings us a little closer to being able to cover those things that we need to this year and going forward. I think another 01:24:51
thing that would be helpful. 01:24:58
Is that one of the comments that came up was the RDA and how we can offset cost to our? 01:25:05
General fund with RDA dollars, but RDA dollars are specifically used for limited purposes and those funds can't be utilized for 01:25:12
certain things or to offset budgets. It's very specific things like cleanup and then certain economic opportunities. And I believe 01:25:18
there's one more. 01:25:25
What's the infrastructure? So making sure that we're utilizing those dollars for the right things is is important as we have these 01:25:31
conversations. 01:25:36
Umm, was there anything that overall we felt like needed to be discussed or do you guys want to discuss while they're getting 01:25:42
ready? Well, I just keep, I just keep hearing, and since I've been here, I'm asking lots and lots of questions, right? 01:25:48
And I keep hearing tonight it's like Vineyard, they, I keep hearing Vineyard has a higher tax rate than lots of others. But it's 01:25:56
been like that since most of before most of us moved here. And it wasn't a problem until tonight. So, and, and like Gaiden said, I 01:26:03
during the campaign that there was a huge heated argument all the time about frustration and not having. 01:26:11
Our own fire station and. 01:26:19
That I don't know if I'm supposed to use names, but a little gal that taught my daughter sewing. She had to sit and wait with a 01:26:22
broken pelvic bone for over half an hour. 01:26:27
So so when I'm asked to panic extra $18.00 a month so we can have fire and emergency services 2 minutes from my house to me, 01:26:34
there's a universal law called Fair Exchange. What am I giving and what am I getting back? And if there's fair exchange? 01:26:42
Then I feel fine about it if there's not fair exchange. Alpine School district might be a different discussion, but but for me to 01:26:51
have these services one minute 2 minutes from my house for $18.00 increase is fair exchange. 01:26:58
I have a good friend on the Alpine School District and she she asked me when I first got elected, she said. 01:27:10
Have you ever walked into a room and you just knew everybody hated your guts? And I was like, no, no, I can't imagine that would 01:27:16
ever happen. And, and I kind of feel like that could happen tonight. But but I'm going to vote for the tax rate increase because 01:27:23
when it comes down to it, and one of you in the villas are in need of those emergency services, I'll know that my tax rate 01:27:31
increase is supporting you. So I just want you to know that it's not without thought. 01:27:38
They're asking, they're asking for half of what they actually need and we're hoping that economic development will cover the rest 01:27:46
next year. 01:27:50
So they've been very, very. 01:27:54
Small in their ask and I feel like that needs to be taken into account. 01:27:58
I'm ready. 01:28:04
Sorry, I can record that. 01:28:07
And I agree, I think you can listen to this argument and hear both sides and I. 01:28:10
Come away from it differently. 01:28:16
You know. 01:28:20
Not be villainized for hey, I agree this or you know, king size candy bar or a regular size. I think since we have such a good 01:28:21
audience here today, I want to describe the dire situation that our city is in based off of decisions that were made in 2011 prior 01:28:28
to any of this council was ever put in, which is the RDA. 01:28:35
The RDA was a shot to be able to have this city be able to exist. It was a long shot to be able to do it. 01:28:43
When When? In 2011 it was put in. 01:28:53
Over half of our property, 49.1%, was put into an RDA. 01:28:57
Half of that then froze. Those property taxes froze in 2011. I want to give you an example of my property at that time. 01:29:04
My property, oh, it's not showing up. It's a little bit lower so I can't show. It was about $800 in an open space property. And 01:29:13
when I say the RDA, most people need to understand the 50% of the property I'm talking about is Geneva Steel wetlands and every, 01:29:19
all the settling ponds and everything like that, okay. 01:29:25
We decided as a city school district. 01:29:32
Sewer and water. 01:29:37
To freeze half of our property and allow them to stay at a lower rate of 2011. I gave the example of my house and the slides and 01:29:39
I'll show it to you later. It's about $700. 01:29:45
When I built that, when I build my house in 2024, it's like 4300. I think I have the exact right. 01:29:52
We did that in exchange so that they would be able to take that money and we would be able to go out and get economic development 01:29:59
like a Costco, a Walmart or something to be able to develop a massive tax base. From 2011 until now, that tax base has not come to 01:30:06
fruition. 01:30:12
It's very difficult to have somebody come to where there's a dump, a power plant, a dirty lake and toxic property it's been. 01:30:19
That's why they tried to get this to happen. 01:30:24
So that's very important. And that bothers me because Utah City, all of those developers, their best tax rate is not going to be 01:30:32
affecting any of their properties. It's weighed heavily on me because of that. 01:30:38
They're freezed in at the 2011 rate, right? We will only the other percentage. 01:30:45
Because of that, every year when our fit, when our failure to be able to get sales tax hasn't happened, we've had to turn to the 01:30:52
backs of the citizens to increase their property taxes year over year. That is why this is not an apples to apples comparison 01:30:58
because we're only it's like, it's like fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Orem gets to do property taxes on 100% of 01:31:04
their properties. 01:31:10
Half of them we do get, but we're they're only playing that produced rate, right? 01:31:17
And that's why we're at the 15. This is an example of an average home that we used and it went up to 1800s. 01:31:23
Every Yeah. Why did you say Council woman's? 01:31:32
Just because that was that was an example of an average home that but but I just I, I probably could have not great slides, but 01:31:34
just that was the conversation of what an average home was. 01:31:40
Every year. 01:31:47
Since 2014, Vineyard has increased our property tax rate and you can see that on the left there and then you can see the total 01:31:49
collector base. Our sales tax has gone up. We go about a million dollars, 600,000 a million up every single year. 01:31:56
In in total revenue that our city gets to go through and spend right. 01:32:04
And I want to be very clear because of that many of the early. 01:32:11
People in Vineyard didn't put streetlights, didn't put sidewalks into their roads because they knew they couldn't afford it. 01:32:16
To be able to have that type of thing. So when you drive down Hallway Rd. if I ask you something, sure. You said every year we 01:32:23
increase their property taxes and their tax rate goes up. Or do you mean the total revenue pie goes up every year? OK, great 01:32:31
growth. I see. So what they're part of it is growth, but everyone's home values have gone up dramatically. 01:32:39
Just for the record, my house value went down. There is there is some bumps for one year to the next in your home. 01:32:48
Want to be specific? I think that I think that. 01:32:54
I'm gonna let you finish. I'm looking at the whole thing. I just think the danger here, and I'm, maybe I'm a little impatient. I 01:32:57
just want to understand. Are you trying to, like, tell us to cancel the RDA or no? What I think citizens need done. I'll get to 01:33:04
it. I think it'll be very helpful to educate everybody. I'll get to it, I promise. 01:33:10
Because of that we get about $1,000,000 more a year, but it on total revenue. But it we are different, it is on the backs of our 01:33:18
citizens of our property taxes to be able to do that. 01:33:24
Our total revenue is 8.8 million last year, right? You guys can see that number right under the red. 01:33:32
Question marks. 01:33:39
Our staff and I want to make sure that because I have a question so that I can understand your slide. So you're saying we're 01:33:43
different in that property taxes paid from the backs of our residents versus other citizens, other cities, other cities are half 01:33:50
the rate because they have a tax base number one that Vineyard does not have in the number two, half of the properties are are in 01:33:57
the RDA and they're frozen at a very. 01:34:03
2011 rate due to the RDA. 01:34:10
OK. Thank you. 01:34:14
And so people need to understand that that that is a massive arm behind your back, right? 01:34:16
The thing one thing I do want to collect on the record is, and I know Christy did a really, really good job, but I feel like this 01:34:22
slide is a little bit deceiving. 01:34:26
In that at the beginning of the year, I know the staff and budget came together and I think it this is a learning process and that 01:34:30
we put together and we said we want to buy or spend $6 million more this coming year than last year. And I put into that, citizens 01:34:35
put into that council put into that. 01:34:41
And we just put it above what that is and what this graph that was at the open house was saying. We made this big. We added so 01:34:48
many more things. 01:34:52
Over $7,000,000 more. 01:34:56
And when I looked at it, I was like, how do you add $7,000,000 more of our total revenue is only 8 million, right. So what that 01:34:59
graph is, is kind of misleading is, is that we put a wish list together of 7 million. 01:35:05
We cut, we cut 76 million of it, but we still are increasing 1,000,000. And so it's kind of misleading in that it it's we're not 01:35:11
cutting, we're increasing. 01:35:16
Significantly, but I just wanted to point that out. 01:35:23
That when you say we're increasing significantly, can you tell me what you mean? I think that's well step. I think Christie's 01:35:26
already told you the revenue increases of what we are. Is it 600,000 or half a million in the revenue increase, Christy? 01:35:33
Yeah. 01:35:42
So we're actually not cutting, I mean, we're cutting our wish list, which isn't really real money. It's just. 01:35:45
Things that we put together and said we want to do, I don't think I understand that. Could you explain what he means? So the 01:35:51
public safety itself increased 1.1 million, right? So we are asking for a tax rate that would give us 600,000 of that. The other 01:35:58
600 is from the fund would be coming from other revenue sources other than property tax, right? 01:36:04
So, and I just want people to understand the difference between that because it's like we didn't spend $6 million last year more 01:36:12
and this year in order to hit that, we cut 6,000,000 out of real spending last year that was just proposed. Hey, let's you know, 01:36:20
these are some wish list things, right? They were proposed projects by City Council, by staff members and yes. 01:36:28
Those those were cut, but like I said, we have not Inc. 01:36:36
We haven't put our spending past what we were bringing we needed for the public safety, correct. Yeah, yeah, I just, I had so many 01:36:39
people call me and irate like, hey, I didn't see 6 million from the previous budget. And I'm like, I know that. I just wanted to 01:36:45
clear that out. So no, that was just to balance our budget. That's what we came to. But I also think that and I and I really hate 01:36:51
the tone of cut. 01:36:57
Or fat or waste because I've worked in government for 20 years and they really are people. So I get emotional about it because 01:37:05
there's so many great people in Vineyard City that they, they really are, you know, and so it's a, it's a dicey topic because 01:37:12
there's some of our friends, right? But at the same rate when the down economy, you have to figure things out, right? So, but I 01:37:18
want to go through like one of the things that I ran on or, or that I believe on the tax rate that I have issues with is, is that. 01:37:25
We have spent a lot of money on the corridor master plan or the lakefront master plan where it's like a dog park and I went in and 01:37:34
looked at that half a million or a viewing structure or an all abilities park. And so many people will ask me questions on in the 01:37:41
city and be like when am I getting the all abilities park or when am I getting this? And me knowing the finances for being here, 01:37:48
I'm like, do you realize for 12 years we have saved for just a $1.8 million fire station? 01:37:56
And it will trigger anything because the money just isn't there to be able to do it. And if you look through the corridor master 01:38:03
plan of like different promises of a Community Center and we're paying to design that or pickleball courts or and these are 01:38:10
promises. Can you tell me what you mean by promises? Well, we've hired a consultant. We've gone out and asked them what do you 01:38:17
want to dream up in a city? And then we've presented it to. 01:38:23
Here's a philosophical idea of This is what this is our plan. 01:38:31
And we've documented in a book of this is what we're going to be doing. And we haven't even like just like on a fire station. And 01:38:35
that's what I'm saying is, is like publicly, we're going out here and I'm going, we are one of the poorest cities due to our tax 01:38:42
base and we're already twice as much in tax rate. But we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in planning and dreaming. 01:38:50
And this is just the corridor project. When you get into the master front, we are talking about building multi $1,000,000. 01:38:57
Years we're talking about building restaurants on them we just submitted this 90 days ago to the state and saying hey why don't we 01:39:05
dredge the lake. I had somebody ask it was like 13 million just to get to that and I wanted to show this I walked out there last 01:39:11
year when I looked at it and I was like do you realize the vineyard has no ability to be able to pay that but yet we're dreaming 01:39:17
and we're putting this into the paper and saying that this is going to happen and I'm being villainized by saying guys I this just 01:39:23
isn't going to. 01:39:29
And we have to get a fire station, right? And it was in the paper. And I think, I think Karen mentioned that of like, you know, 01:39:35
I'll have a resident call me saying we're building a helipad or even a City Hall, you know, going and meeting with Orem and, and 01:39:42
all these entities that have these things. And I think, Sarah, you said that in your Facebook post of like, we wanted, we want to 01:39:49
dream up this big appetite. And I agree with you. It's like we don't have that. 01:39:55
Ability to be able to to do that right. 01:40:03
And what brought us to our knees is this fire station. And it's such a small house. It's only 1.8 million and only six dedicated 01:40:07
offices. And I'm grateful that all five of us align and say, hey, this is something that needs to get done. 01:40:13
But I was here in Vineyard when the 12th West Fire Station was brought forth many years ago, and it needed to happen. And so my 01:40:20
parents and my family have built 2, which is awesome. And I know we have a master plan that's going to come into that, talking to 01:40:27
the chief, but the residents of Vineyard that are currently here right now. 01:40:33
We should be able to say that we have paid for our fire station now and we need to be putting an impact the ice. We spoke with him 01:40:41
yesterday of saying the residents of Utah City and those when they go through and do it that that next fire station within them 01:40:47
and all the public safety of that side of the city will be paid for by them because that's only proper. We can't put that on the 01:40:53
backs and to have that and again, I I know you guys are you think I'm villainizing Utah City and I'm not I just you you get into 01:40:59
the books. 01:41:05
And you go, it needs to be fair. And so I hope in our discussion today that we go, hey, you know, this is this is what we can 01:41:11
accomplish. Can I just say something? Yeah. Last year when I would sit in council meeting and I'd look at all these master plans 01:41:17
and all the money that was spent on master plans, I was like, oh, my gosh, that's ridiculous. Why do we spend that much? I since 01:41:23
learned that it's actually really valuable. 01:41:29
We have that in the capital projects as a public safety master plan. 01:41:37
So, so there's things that we can do going forward. We're still relatively new as far as governments go. And I would hope that you 01:41:42
guys would understand the fact that we've only had three mayors and all of this is new and there's going to be mistakes and 01:41:50
there's going to be things that we do right. And if we can be patient with each other and bring suggestions to the table, I will 01:41:57
tell you 100% the suggestions that I've made since I've been on the council have absolutely been considered to. 01:42:05
Where it's actually been kind of surprising, I expected different. And so that is happening and master plans are important because 01:42:12
they help you know what you need to do moving forward. Well, and I'll lean into that just a second. We do the master plan so that 01:42:20
we can phase them because I think we cannot afford to do them all at once. But if you don't plan, somebody said it, you plan to 01:42:27
fail. And so we are planning in order to phase in projects. 01:42:35
So that the quality of life of the residents will be meaningful overtime. Can I add that if we would have done a safety master 01:42:43
plan? 01:42:47
Eight years ago it would look very different than what it would look today or even six years ago, maybe eight, eight to 10. But 01:42:52
what I'm I'm agreeing with Mayor Fulmer and we have done a lot of different studies that have allowed us to keep charging these 01:42:59
impact fees. And this one has been in conversation and is already being planned for. And I'm excited and grateful that we can have 01:43:07
it. But I'm actually really grateful that it hasn't been accomplished yet because I want to make sure that we. 01:43:14
Are able to charge developers exactly what we should be charging them through a current study of what our current layout is. And 01:43:21
then we're going to grow and have to amend and adjust as we get bigger to make sure that we're still getting all those fees from 01:43:28
an impact fees as well. They it's better if they're staggered, it's better if we are able to. 01:43:35
It's very important to have these studies and it's very hard to watch and hear people say plan. But then I also don't want to 01:43:45
spend money on studies or plans. I don't think I'm saying studies. I'm saying that studies create. We have to do studies and plans 01:43:52
to be able to charge impact fees. Right? IA 100% agree with that. But what your logic is is that you can always adjust the public 01:43:59
safety master plan year to year and and do a small little study. 01:44:06
This isn't high enough, but Can you imagine doing all of the studies that we want all at once? Our budget? We would have had to 01:44:13
raise taxes eight years ago. 01:44:17
No, I like because these studies are like, I think we budgeted 75,000 for this public safety master plan to do. I don't know how 01:44:22
many impact fee categories there are, but I imagine it's close to half a dozen. To do all of those studies at once would have been 01:44:29
a huge right, but but a huge burden on the residents earlier. And yes, of course we need it now. And I'm not looking to criticize 01:44:37
the previous council. Maybe they should have done. 01:44:44
Four years ago. But I'm not looking to criticize the past. I'm looking to move forward and. 01:44:52
Get these things accomplished now. Well, and I agree with that. What I what I would just say is that when looking in any of these 01:44:58
plans and I printed off quite a few different books, I want you to look through them of like the abriom and a skate park. We paid 01:45:05
a skate park person. I met him in the Idaho association cities event and he was Oh, I I I planned a skate park in your hook and I 01:45:13
was like, Oh, and I think it was 10, like 5 to 15,000 and it's like and then just a planet, right. 01:45:20
And then it was like, how much was it to build it? And I'm like, we don't. So what I'm saying is, is that we don't know where 01:45:28
we're going. And yet we're, we're paying just these plans to dredge the lake and go through and do it where we do not have the tax 01:45:35
base. And our, our focus as a city has to stop all of this. And we have to, and to Natalie Harbin's point, we have to go. When I 01:45:43
met with her, it was like tax base, economic development businesses we have to get back to. 01:45:50
Be able to go through and and all of these other things is an after. It's like a chicken before like we have to. 01:45:58
Get that tax base first and foremost before we because I get so many citizens saying this is all that is happening and I go, we 01:46:06
have $8 million in our total budget. This is never going to happen. And I don't want to be the mean negative angry on Facebook 01:46:13
like, you know, but I'm the realist of it of, of like what it is right. So and and then just in closing, like. 01:46:20
We need just like we're doing the fire station before we go and pay. I'll bet you we've got millions of dollars in planning of 01:46:28
ideas that we could never do just. 01:46:34
And but we need as a council to to. 01:46:40
Nothing will ever be started to pay a consultant. 01:46:46
Until we come before the residents and say, hey, this is what we're going to do. Because some of these things, that's just. 01:46:51
It just isn't gonna happen. So my last that is, that is the process though, like to do a plan. We vote on it together. So I really 01:46:57
want to commend you for being concerned about what plans we're doing. And that's why you're here on the council. If plans come up 01:47:03
and if they're on the budget and you don't agree with them, you have said, and if, if all of us agree, then we or even if we 01:47:09
disagree, we all talk it out. And so we all agree that the public safety master plan or impact fee needs to be done, though 01:47:15
there's also a parks and Rec. 01:47:21
I believe is that what it's called that that's being done because that could possibly be an impact fee that we could also add to 01:47:27
it. And so there's a lot of plans like you're talking about plans that were already done. 01:47:33
Which you can have an opinion on that and not agree with previous councils but you were elected. 01:47:39
And you can change that. And just I think just talking about it in general, it doesn't feel productive. Let's talk about plans 01:47:45
that are currently on this current budget and then we can decide as a group if we think they're a priority. And I'll get to the 01:47:51
current things, but I just want to change the culture within our city and educate because. 01:47:58
From this chair, no one ever helped citizens understand the dire situation. And if it continues to grow next year, it is going to 01:48:04
be another property tax, another property on the backs of our citizens. And we're going to be continually throwing up these maps 01:48:12
of this is coming and this is coming in. We just need to be realist. So I I agree with you on that. Can I say two things? First of 01:48:19
all, I don't think it's appropriate for council members to talk about people in the audience. 01:48:27
And claim they know their viewpoints or grooves their viewpoints. Oh, I was just saying she was wonderful and saying I needed to 01:48:35
focus on economic development. These master plans are the one of the best ways we have to get citizen involvement. They're the 01:48:40
ones that bring the people together and let them give that feedback and help us understand what people want and need. I think the 01:48:46
analysis though, is that I was raised as a as a dirt poor farmer. And when you go in at my, you know, we didn't even have a car, 01:48:52
right, Dad and. 01:48:58
When you go out and ask citizens what they want, thinking that they can go and afford the world, like we're going to go to Italy 01:49:03
or it's just not in the cards for financially of what Vineyard could ever afford because we don't have the tax base. And you have 01:49:11
to tell people that that's what it is. And so we have now we can all come together as and that's why I said when we when our off 01:49:18
rate and retreat in February was we all better be meeting right now weekly with the RDA. We should be putting a citizen. 01:49:26
Together, I would love those that ran against our different ideas to come through and say, how do we get a Costco? How do we get 01:49:34
it so we can go through and do that. That should be all of our focus within the city to be able to go through and do that. I 01:49:40
understand that the dream to be able to draft all of these things up. And but in this budget, we last year we just added another 01:49:45
planner to plan right. And so we're going to be doing more plans to plan, plan thing. And I look at the budget and I go, I don't 01:49:51
see it. So did you have another slide? 01:49:57
Yeah, what I was just gonna end with and it's not a slide, but it's. 01:50:04
Just learning and I and I and I echo your your feelings, Marty, where you go? Hey, I'm not here to, you know, what can this 01:50:09
current council do? And we just can't bash the previous council and that's not what we're here today, but. 01:50:15
I'm a history person like no other. And you're gonna repeat it if you if you don't learn from it. And in October or November last 01:50:21
year where we were like Survey Software 87,000 or Sage consulting our lobbyists or World Trade Center or X Factor, those are all 01:50:29
baked in. But if we would have known or understood or been more transparent, people would have sounded the alarm and we would have 01:50:36
known. So like putting things in place where people know much more. 01:50:44
Above and beyond. We wouldn't be in that place now this year. 01:50:51
As I'm not going to call the budget committee, but the citizens that advise me now, I just want to say thank you for all of them 01:50:56
that put that effort in. And it is difficult, but #1 cutting our increase as a City Council, we don't need to get paid more. The 01:51:02
Planning Commission isn't paid, the bike Commission isn't. 01:51:09
The merit, the I I believe the merit increases for the time being and also out-of-state travel could be cut for a year. 01:51:17
Also in meeting with Orem and there is some debate on is this City Hall going to be 30 million or 50 or 20. We've learned through 01:51:25
this whole exercise that even a $1.8 million City Hall is just breaking our community in terms of finances. So how does it 10 and 01:51:32
and you could leverage it, you could go and say, hey, we're going to put all of our chips in the back. And every single city 01:51:39
manager said, I can't even believe that you're talking about this, it would break your city. 01:51:46
So taking that and we asked or submitted to Eric and said hey, can we take that? City Hall $2,000,000 It is RDA money. The RDA 01:51:53
money has been used outside of the RDA on Holdaway Road sewer it's been used on. 01:52:01
Orem Centre St. overpass half of it so legally can we it's I think it's called define that as infrastructure to move that City 01:52:10
Hall since. 01:52:15
We know we're five, 810 years away from affording a City Hall. 01:52:22
To not plan for it right now and and do that on the City Hall and then. 01:52:27
The other thing I think is the culture needs to change is I've never driven a car or truck with less than 75,000 miles. And I 01:52:34
think it it, you know, I think it, it's a good standard that we get brand new cars every three years. 01:52:42
And I know over a three-year period it makes sense. But you know what? 01:52:50
Some of the best people I know drive cars 1015 years and they drive it till they're older. And some of those cars are F3 fifties. 01:52:55
And there's things that we can do to extend those cars to be able to go through and do that. So those are the those are the things 01:53:00
that I think that we could cut. And then I would just ask for those that met with me, were there any other cuts that I was meeting 01:53:05
that we met with that I need to cover? 01:53:11
OK, so those were those are the things and we. 01:53:18
Wholeheartedly support the fire increases and everything if we could cut those things, but also just as a council, learn. 01:53:21
Of our dire situation and talk about it as in our dire situation, I think we'll all get a, we'll all move forward and I think this 01:53:28
is a forgiving community. 01:53:33
I think sometimes we scream, scream, scream so we can be heard and I appreciate extending the offer to you guys on some cuts. 01:53:41
Have you been in any of the meetings regarding City Hall and the partnerships around that and sort of the trajectory? Yeah. I 01:53:47
mean, I, I went to Saratoga Springs and Orem and I got the general lover look of no. 01:53:54
And it's not something. So also if you want to come and talk to me, I met with Naseem and we went over the leasing option and it 01:54:02
ends up actually costing the city almost nothing. So I'm happy to go over that with you too. The money, the, the equation is based 01:54:08
over a three-year period as if we wanted to get new cars every three to five, right, 1010 year period. 01:54:15
We're leasing those cars for 10. That's not what the contract said that I saw it was over three, right, Nassim? 01:54:22
The assessment for cost, the cost benefit analysis of leasing versus purchasing is based on a 10 year span and and they compare 01:54:28
the cost of purchasing cars over that 10 year span versus leasing on a three-year lease to own. And the the the analysis comes 01:54:36
back with the lease option being the least expensive option for the city. And so when you compare purchasing and keeping long term 01:54:43
versus. 01:54:50
Leasing and keeping them for that three-year window if you can, if it costs less to lease and keep them for a three-year versus 01:54:57
purchasing and keeping them for longer term. 01:55:02
The wisest choice, in our opinion, is to go with the cost that is less. 01:55:09
I'd love to sit down and see the numbers. We cracked it. 01:55:14
You know, I've I've sold at auction vehicles for 17 years with the public group. 01:55:19
And the numbers that we ran on the analysis didn't show up, but I'm more than willing to sit down and go over those and. 01:55:24
That would be great. OK, Marty. 01:55:30
Go ahead. 01:55:34
OK, there were several points. 01:55:35
Throughout this meeting and I would. 01:55:39
Hopefully I don't miss any of the ones that I really have knowledge and ability to respond to. Umm. 01:55:42
This budget and the tax amendment and. 01:55:50
Well, that budget specifically we've been working on for quite some time. And I want you all to know that it is something I think 01:55:54
at this point with this tax increase and with our budget, I didn't write it down, but I think I'm at least 100 hours of examining 01:56:02
everything, meeting with different people, talking to different residents. And it's definitely something that has been 01:56:09
painstakingly difficult. And it was disappointing and it's a fair statement, but it was disappointing when. 01:56:17
The statement was made that our decisions already been made because this is something that I've been working through. 01:56:25
So, so intently and sleepless nights. 01:56:31
I've had to refill my Ambien prescription and I've, I, I'm embarrassed to admit I cried at one of my meetings because I just 01:56:38
thought, man, if I could take this budget and if I could find this deficit that we need for the fire station, I could be like the 01:56:44
town hero and I could go and save everybody's pockets. 01:56:50
No one wants to pay more taxes. I don't want to pay more taxes. Can I afford it? Yes, I can afford it, but can everyone else know? 01:56:57
I am concerned about our community and the people that can't afford a tax increase and I do hope that we can find them resources 01:57:04
and tools. But what it comes down to is when I sat in that meeting, specifically the one where I cried. 01:57:10
There's no crying in City Council. I just want for the record, I've never done it before. 01:57:18
The point is. 01:57:24
If we don't make some kind of adjustment now first time in 22 years, then we're doing this again next year or the year after. And 01:57:26
what we're looking at is we have to hire. 01:57:31
So we saved, we planned and saved and were able to pay for this fire station out of our savings. 01:57:37
The new fire staff and then the two additional police or it's 1.5, which was a compromise, the 1.5 deputies. So we hired one in 01:57:45
July and we're hiring one in January. 01:57:51
But to hire 6 new firemen and the 1 1/2 deputies were looking at $1.1 million. So what our city staff has done is they went and 01:57:57
took out of our general fund. Did I get that term correct? Our general fund, we had an excess where we had been frugal enough that 01:58:05
that money had been set aside. So instead of doing a $1.1 million increase on our community, we were able to get it down to 01:58:12
$600,000. 01:58:20
And I know that's disappointing. And yes, my whole goal was can we find $600,000 from the budget so we don't have to do this 01:58:27
increase. But then the very next thing is next year we have to hire another six. So we're looking at 12 new firemen and that does 01:58:35
not somehow we don't have another 600,000 to pull out of our general fund. Our general fund now is that the the minimum balance 01:58:42
that it can be on to stay within our bond commitments? Is that correct? 01:58:49
So now we're looking at next year. So let's say we don't raise this tax, we don't do this tax increase this year. Let's let's 01:58:57
pretend we don't. So then we're doing this again next year and we're actually in a worser position. Is worser even a word worse? 01:59:04
Guys, I get, I swear, I'm so articulate, except for when I'm in a large group. 01:59:11
Very intelligent, I think. 01:59:18
We're in a worse position and then the following year. 01:59:23
We're going to hire another six firemen and I haven't even mentioned what we might need for police. So I'm looking at this in the 01:59:27
lungs, in the long scale. 01:59:32
The long term I walked out of the house and my husband, I snapped at one of my kids as I was walking out and he looked at me and 01:59:37
he goes, man, you're going into this meeting with a terrible attitude. And I said, well, babe, I'm getting ready to to have people 01:59:44
pretty mad at me because I have to make some hard choices and goes, just don't do it. Just don't raise the taxes. It's fine. 01:59:50
Everything will be OK. And I said, well, I think if I don't somehow make an adjustment here. 01:59:56
In a few years, you might hear my name in the news or some of our city in the news, because we're that city that was too nervous 02:00:03
or too shy to make a tax increase and now we're looking at financial turmoil. 02:00:09
That's dramatic. I try not to speak in those kind of terms, but all I'm saying is I am a planner and I don't want to take out of 02:00:15
our savings to pay for our day-to-day. I don't believe that that is a good business decision. And So what I am saying is my family 02:00:22
will pay that 13 extra dollars a month, which I believe I live in a pretty average typical home and we will contribute to the 02:00:30
community so that we can have this fire station nearby where we can have accessible. 02:00:37
That is to the national standard right now. Our deputies, our fire department, sorry, our Police Department. 02:00:45
We only have. 02:00:53
The national standards is to have one officer, one deputy per 1000 residents. We currently have .75 or 73, which is fine. Vineyard 02:00:54
is very safe, but we need to be able to keep up. I had a text message before this of a concerned citizen that had some really good 02:01:02
ideas. But in the end he said, well have we thought about just cutting fire and police? And I was like. 02:01:09
What I've learned in all of government and city and taking care of a community is the first thing to go is never safety. And I'm 02:01:18
not willing to say I don't want to put safety as a priority. And I don't think anyone else is specifically saying that either. But 02:01:24
it's hard when we hear kind of contradictory statements where we want to plan, but we don't want to pay for the studies. We want 02:01:29
fire and police, but we don't want to pay for it. And it's this balance back and forth. And so frankly, sorry for the long 02:01:35
monologue. 02:01:41
I feel very comfortable. 02:01:47
If not. 02:01:51
Disappointed that this has to happen, but very comfortable with my decision. And it sucks to be the person that has to make 02:01:53
everyone pay more taxes. It sucks to have to even try to justify it to the community. But I fully intend on doing what I think is 02:02:01
best for the city as a whole financially and if it means that we're going to have to pay a little extra taxes for a few years. 02:02:09
And actually, it'll be several years until our RDA starts to. 02:02:18
Close. 02:02:24
I think we'll have to do it because I moved here specifically because I saw the. 02:02:26
The beauty and the wonderful community that Vineyard has, and I've talked to a lot of residents that might not be here tonight 02:02:31
that have also said we're willing to pay a little extra to be able to have the same level of service or better. 02:02:37
And one last thing that I've been wanting to say is I know there's a lot of controversy around our lobbyists. And I know that 02:02:44
there was some questions like let's have some evidence, let's get some good results, let's be transparent, Let's make sure that if 02:02:50
we're going to take a trip somewhere to do an economic development conference that we're seeing what the benefits are. One 02:02:57
specific celebratory item is we have a lobbyist, we pay him 100,000 a year. 02:03:04
42,042. 02:03:11
We paid him 142 last year but he's only on retainer for 42. 02:03:14
What's the correct amount? 02:03:18
It doesn't matter. 100,000 is a good point. 02:03:20
OK. Do do we know it it's a two year contract. 02:03:24
We paid him an extra 100,000. I guess what I'm saying is that she is saying higher, she's saying we're paying higher the amount 02:03:29
and she's about to make a point that says even if we invested $100,000, we got $10 million. So the return of investment is great. 02:03:35
So what it was is. 02:03:41
The lobbyists. 02:03:48
No, no, those lobbyists, the lobbyists and the mayor and I believe Amber, you were somehow part of this, went up to the 02:03:50
legislature during the session in January and they had state appropriations where Vineyard was able to get $10 million in funding. 02:03:57
Now the argument could be all that's taxpayer money. Would you rather that go to Draper that there are so many other cities that 02:04:05
could have gotten or so many other entities that could have gotten that $10 million? We have this $10 million. 02:04:12
Help build an overpass in Vineyard on 1200 N. 02:04:20
OK, we're not going to do it back and forth, but Marty. Oh, Jake, it's still Marty's turn. Go ahead, Marty. 02:04:25
So what I'm trying to say is. 02:04:30
Let's ask questions, call me anytime, message me anytime. I will answer all of them. I think what I want to do is rebuild that 02:04:33
trust. I don't want you guys to think that we're cloak and dagger that we're hiding things and having backdoor meetings. I have a 02:04:41
lot of meetings. I actually write them all down now so that if anyone ever asks, these are the meetings that I've had. But I'm not 02:04:48
going to spend 8 hours every council meeting making my making the citizens sit and go through my new details. I'm I've noticed. 02:04:56
That when we have these eight hour long meetings, people leave and by the end of it, they're missing important information. So my 02:05:04
job is to prepare myself to come to these meetings. I'm so sorry. I don't mean to be yelling to come to these meetings prepared 02:05:10
with my homework done. So it's not to have secret meetings, It's to know all the details inside and out so that I can give you a 02:05:16
summary of what I feel comfortable with. And if you have questions further from that, please reach out to me. I have never refused 02:05:21
to meet with a single person. 02:05:27
I have had one person that I haven't been able to match schedules with. 02:05:34
That's it. So if you have questions, if you have frustrations with me, I am happy to hear them. Please reach out any other time, 02:05:38
anytime. 02:05:42
I'm going to go ahead and take a turn now, unless you have something in response to. Yeah, just in response. I just want to clear 02:05:47
the record that a city our size doesn't have this lobbyist. And the second I found out about it, I called our representative, 02:05:53
Nelson Abbott, and I said you are our legal representatives. Nelson here is the best guy ever. Vote for him. Where? 02:05:59
I was trash talking to Nelson. 02:06:07
We got to use him. We didn't call him once. That's the normal per and it's free and he can get us just as much. Or if not that $10 02:06:11
million bridge. We didn't even ask him to do it. We don't need special favors to be able to do it. 02:06:18
It doesn't cost a million or a half, $100,000 to get 10. That's not the the Utah way. 02:06:26
U dot the director. 02:06:35
I've done his auction vehicles for years. He will talk to anybody that he wants to and we don't have to be a lobbyist to do so. 02:06:37
All right, but yeah, he got us a bridge. But. 02:06:45
OK, hold on. It's my turn. We're not going to do it back and forth. 02:06:48
Thank you for your comment, Jake. Just in response to that, from my perspective, we did actually go to our representatives. 02:06:51
Senator Keith Grover sponsored it. He took it through the process. He worked with our lobbyist and it was a really great unified 02:06:59
effort. We've been able to hire this lobbyist that's worked for a very good value and like Marty said, with an incredible return 02:07:06
of investment, not just this 10 million, but year after year showing things like $16 million for the Vineyard. 02:07:14
Connector, we have a lot of infrastructure in the city that state infrastructure and so working within the parameters and getting 02:07:21
them to move ahead on their timelines is a very significant thing for Vineyard. And we've been very lucky to talk about taxes and 02:07:28
and and come back to it before we go back to the budget. 02:07:34
I think it's important that the atmosphere of this public space is that we offer these public hearings so that we can receive 02:07:41
questions and comments. And that as you go through the records, you'll find that we are often giving reports that sometimes when 02:07:47
these hard things come up, you're probably not reading. But if you want to see them, if you want to see reports on why we are 02:07:53
investing so much in economic development, why we feel business tax is important because it offsets property tax, why we felt it 02:07:59
was important. 02:08:04
Invest in things like EDC, Utah World Trade Center, the Chamber of Commerce, things like that. We have those types of reports to 02:08:10
look into when we're looking at the RDA. There was a comment that was made about where we started when this project area was 02:08:17
created, and Christy said it really well. She said we're different. There's almost 75% of our city is encompassed in this area. 02:08:24
Center St. North is in this project area where we had a remediate. 02:08:31
A a steel plant. 02:08:40
And so Jake was saying we locked in at a base revenue. So this all of these taxing entities got together and said, you know what, 02:08:42
we're going to give 70% of that money and that increment, well, let me explain from the beginning, the lock in the space revenue, 02:08:49
that's the bottom, that's what everybody is paying at the time. Then they'll say any increment on top of that that's built, any 02:08:56
value that's created from that land 75 or 70%. 02:09:03
Will go to the RDA. 02:09:10
To put in infrastructure, help with economic development and do that cleanup in order to attract. 02:09:12
Companies to come here and people to live here to create the city that we have. And so there as you're looking at sites like the 02:09:19
Megaplex. 02:09:24
There was Marty actually asked for this data and they came in and they showed that that base revenue since the time of 02:09:29
implementation of the project area till now, that base revenue went up 24 times. And you can see this as we're bringing in the 02:09:35
economic development, as we're cleaning up these sites, as we're laying the infrastructure that we're talking about and investing 02:09:41
in this. That's how this is going to keep happening and we're going to keep doing this so that that increment. 02:09:48
Will build our community, bring in that sales tax, that business tax and offset these property taxes. 02:09:55
When we go to the next and that's, that's an important part of So what are we using these dollars for this 30% that's on our side, 02:10:01
100% of that property tax that comes to us is for police and fire, that's all. 02:10:08
And Christie said in 2000 or last year. 02:10:16
That full property tax that we get, that 30% that comes to us on this side, it paid for 83% of our fire and police. Now we're 02:10:20
having our tax rate go down again because property values are going up and that's a 24% reduction. And so we are losing. We're 02:10:27
going from 83 to 59% coverage. And so we're saying the tax rate is going down, but we need to adjust Utah Tax Association for 02:10:34
Utah. 02:10:41
Advocates for lower tax taxes in Utah. They say there's not a whole lot of reasons for recouping, for raising your taxes. But the 02:10:49
one thing that they do agree is that we need to recoup inflation. And we've gone up 24% inflation and we've gone 32% down in our 02:10:56
tax rate. And so we haven't been recouping it. 02:11:02
But like we were talking about earlier, all of these things are phased and planned at the time where we need them to reduce the 02:11:09
burden on the citizens. So right now we're in a structural deficit that means all of our operational costs, all of the things that 02:11:16
allow us to go when the economy is high or low, those are the things where we can spend a little bit extra money putting in a 02:11:22
roundabout at 600 N or not doing it when when it's not doing so well. 02:11:28
But we do need to recoup inflation and right now one of our costs, our costs are going up because. 02:11:35
I think that's meaningful and you'll be the first person that we come and we take that to. Tony has a copy of it that we can get 02:12:11
you tonight. 02:12:14
I think staff and level of service, there was a graph that come up, came up and it was showing the budget cuts that came and that 02:12:19
it wasn't meaningful. It was a wish list. But I want to talk about why I think it's meaningful. 02:12:24
So each year we go through a budget process and we talk about all sorts of things that residents want that staff feels like they 02:12:30
need in order to maintain and keep the level of service that we have today. 02:12:35
And things come in from parents who are having their kids go down slides and they're it's too hot. So like shade sales, things 02:12:40
like that. Sarah had mentioned it in a post. Other things come in where we need people over sewer or we need sewer systems. And 02:12:47
all of these projects are being phased. So it's, it's not just a wish list, It's infrastructure. It's the type of police coverage 02:12:54
that we have. It is. 02:13:00
Things that you guys are coming in actively, people that I see in the room today. 02:13:08
Looking for and all of those things are what we're saying. We're going to wait on this, we're going to cut this, we're going to 02:13:12
make sure that we're not diving into that budget because we are keeping and maintaining. 02:13:19
Conservative spending here and there's a few metrics that we base that on when you're looking at the Utah Taxpayer Association, 02:13:27
and it's one are our extractions from residents going down as population is growing and as we're spending. And that's something 02:13:33
that we showed at the open house that it is. And I don't know if we have those pictures here. 02:13:39
But that's something that we are doing now. You can see as population has been leveling out the last two years that our amount as 02:13:45
we go for a fire station A6 member team and two police officers is up. It's 'cause we're making an injection of capital into what 02:13:51
we think will keep the level of service needed for this community to make sure people get to your homes. Or in 2019 you can see a 02:13:57
little bump that goes up. 02:14:03
In our extraction from of taxes per resident. 02:14:10
And it's when we bought the Linden property to put out the public workstation so that we could mall the grass and take care of the 02:14:14
snow plowing and do all of those things. These these graphs are available for you. They're made public and so that you can really 02:14:20
delve into them. Another one that was measured was how much are we taking? 02:14:27
Per $1000 of the average median income and what we're spending is below $12.00. And that's meaningful because our since we since 02:14:34
2017 as we looked at the numbers, what residents are making average, their average median income has gone up since that time. And 02:14:42
that's something that the Utah Taxpayer Association looks at. 02:14:50
Taxes in the county, it said. We have the highest taxes in the in the state and I just wanted to reference that it's in the county 02:14:59
and that each. 02:15:02
Each city does something different. Provo has the airport that they have to deal with. We Christy mentioned Eagle Mountain was 02:15:06
very small on taxes, but then was very close to us when they were paying for their public safety and. 02:15:14
Need we're at 17%. And so we want to say even if we took all of the suggestions that you guys were talking about tonight off and 02:15:51
we didn't phase them in from year to year to make sure people aren't waiting at 600 N or that it's safe to cross in certain areas 02:15:59
or that your kids could slide down the slides without getting burns, things like that. Even if we waited, those things would just 02:16:06
go back into our Operation rainy day fund to make sure that we gave you a stable count for. 02:16:14
22% instead of 17% so that next year we could have, as we look at these projects and we keep building and growing as a city, we 02:16:22
can keep maintaining that and have and be fiscally conservative so that we're not doing tax increases every year. And there was a 02:16:28
news article that came out that said. 02:16:35
Utah has the highest tax increase out of the five municipalities that are doing a tax increase in Utah County. And what it didn't 02:16:42
mention is that like was stated here tonight, we haven't done a tax increase in 22 years. So since like 2002 and, and what that 02:16:48
means for us and, and all of these other entities have been doing incremental tax increases when they found it was important to 02:16:55
them when they suddenly needed to build a, a Community Center. 02:17:01
They did these increases and they've, they've continuously done it. That's why Amber said. Can we do it more often? So if 02:17:09
residents don't want to want us to see, want to come and tell us, hey, we want you to get rid of all of this stuff because you're 02:17:13
again considering this. 02:17:18
Residents will be able to come in and and share more and tell us what to do better as we're spending. So it becomes a more 02:17:23
transparent approach. It, it almost feels like white, you want to have this conversation again. But it was really to say this is 02:17:29
one of the only ways with a tax revenue system to come in and tell your city whether or not they're doing a good enough job with 02:17:35
spending and then economic development. 02:17:41
Sometimes there's conversations, I mean, I talked a little bit about why those things are important and maybe I'll just leave it 02:17:48
with there because we've gone long, but I too am in support of this tax rate adjustment. I think it's necessary and I think we'll 02:17:53
provide stability year over year for the people of Vineyard. We've been anticipating it for several year years now, phasing it in 02:17:59
after 22 years to recoup that kind of inflation loss. It's really important and to make sure that Vineyard is set up for success 02:18:05
for the rest of. 02:18:11
Vineyards, growth and generations to come, we need to make sure that we are. 02:18:18
We are spending properly and that we are honest about the realities that we're facing as a community. And one of the realities 02:18:24
that we started the discussion with is that our city is built on an RDA, was created on an RDA. And those are the cards that we 02:18:31
have and that we're dealing with. And it's going to, if we do it right, if we're honest and we and we put these things forward and 02:18:37
we raise taxes when we need to and we're conservative on our spending like we should be and like we have been. 02:18:44
We will continue to do things like the megaplex. 02:18:52
Site where we are increasing that base value by 24%. At this time, I'm going to go ahead and take a motion. 02:18:55
Sarah, you had a time, did you or did you want to talk more? We all took so much time and you were so concise as was Amber. Okay, 02:19:05
then I need a motion. Could I just say real quick that we can all disagree civilly and still get along on this particular issue 02:19:12
and that we don't spread hate or anger and that we put a lot of time into. And I respect all four of your guys votes wherever. I 02:19:19
wouldn't question your integrity on where you came down on looking at the same numbers and. 02:19:26
Sarah said on her post she put a lot of thought into it. And Marty as well. And I, I respect a difference of opinion, right? And 02:19:34
I'd like, I'd like that to be echoed from everyone. Like, even though we did sign, you know, I'm pretty loud about the perilous 02:19:40
finances of our city. And I just want to make sure that anyone that supports me maintains that decorum. Thank you. Can I get a 02:19:46
motion? 02:19:52
Yeah. Does it not have a motion for you? 02:20:06
I move to approve Ordinance 202409 as presented. 02:20:10
All right, can I get a second second? This is done by roll call. 02:20:16
That first by Amber, second by Marty. There was no discussion. We had a lot of discussion. OK, Jake. 02:20:20
No Amber I. 02:20:27
Aye, Marty. Yay, Sarah. Yes. All right. 02:20:31
That brings us to 9.3 discussion and action adoption of the fiscal year 2024-2025 budget resolution. 02:20:37
Can I get a motion on this? 02:20:45
I thought this was two weeks from now. 02:20:47
It I thought we were going to get 2 weeks to kind of go through that, no. 02:20:52
It doesn't have to you're looking at me, but there, I don't know. It has been agenda for today. 02:20:57
I saw it on the agenda, but I thought, I thought that that was just a conversation. I didn't think that that was a vote on it. I 02:21:03
thought we had two more weeks so we could. 02:21:06
Today is a vote, but you could ask for additional time if you wanted to. 02:21:11
So. 02:21:17
The mayor's assistant or other thing there's nothing that we can do I've I think you guys have saw even the things that you 02:21:18
suggested shades or travel. 02:21:24
Nothing of the idea it's just are you looking at me both anyone I think there are you asking for discussion or are you asking for 02:21:30
continue? I think we've thrown out a just different ideas the the group of I don't know, budget committee, whatever we were 02:21:36
calling it like just the group of people. I'm I'm OK with continuance because I expected it in two weeks as well. I did go over 02:21:42
and compare the two that. 02:21:48
The working budget with the one tonight and they're they're the same. 02:21:56
And I'm fairly confident. I mean, we went through it with. 02:22:00
With I don't know if I'm supposed to. Can I say her name? I don't know. Anyway, that works in government finance and she. 02:22:05
Yeah, She agreed that it was very conservative. So are we voting on this now that this locks us in for the 2 million to start the 02:22:14
City Hall, though? So you're setting aside the 2,000,000 RDA, a clarification. It's just a savings account, right? It's not that 02:22:21
we're committing. I'm not ready to commit to a City Hall, and it hasn't been committed. And so we would have to vote to move 02:22:27
forward with that. But even that idea of using it for the fire station, no. 02:22:34
That's well. That's just a point of clarification. That is the RDA budget, I know, not the city budget. OK, thank you. Would you 02:22:41
guys like to discuss this now? Are we trained? We wait for two weeks. OK. Can I get a motion to continue to the next meeting? 02:22:48
I feel, yeah. 02:22:55
Jake is out of motion. 02:22:57
To discontinue it, to continue it, to continue it to two weeks. I will make that motion. All right. Can I get a second? Second. 02:22:59
All right. First by Jake, second by Sarah. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. All right. Did we need to name the actual date or is 02:23:04
2 weeks sufficient? 02:23:10
OK, great. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. 02:23:16
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All right, thank you all for being here this evening. Today is August 14th, 2024. The time is 536. We're going to go ahead and 00:00:13
start our City Council meeting. 00:00:20
Councilmember Fuentes will give us a invocation and lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:26
Our Durkin Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. We are grateful for our community and for our 00:00:35
staff and for the hard work and relationships that have been built. Please bless and. 00:00:42
Help us make good decisions tonight, and help us. 00:00:49
Be calm and level heads that we can understand one another's concerns and we're so very grateful for this wonderful country we 00:00:52
live in. Please bless our servicemen and please bless and watch over those residents and people inside and outside of our 00:00:58
community who are in need. Help us know how to find them and help serve and be that. 00:01:04
That caring support. And we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:11
All rise. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. 00:01:20
To the Republic from which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:26
Exactly. 00:01:42
All right. 00:01:45
All right. 00:01:50
As our next meeting is going to be starting at 6:00, I'm going to go in the order of this agenda that I feel will take us there 00:01:52
and get us there on time. So we're going to start off with our consent items. 00:01:58
Council, I need a motion. 00:02:06
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:02:13
I have a first by Amber. Can I get a second second? 00:02:17
Second by Marty. All in favor, Aye. All right. 00:02:20
That brings us to public comment. 00:02:25
If there is anyone that, excuse me, if there is anyone that would like to make a public comment that is not about the certified 00:02:29
tax rate adjustment that's coming up. 00:02:35
You may come to the podium, state your name, you have two minutes and we will hear your comments. 00:02:42
Kim Cornelius Vineyard resident I'm just curious why we started at 5:30 instead of 6 so that's all I need to know. 00:02:56
Thank you. 00:03:05
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:03:15
Just going on this consent item that you just approved on the approval of the City Council Special session edited minutes of 00:03:19
August 7th, 2024, I asked for City Council to reconsider their decision on changing the form of government. Unfortunately, my 00:03:26
reasoning was edited out. The reason is because I feel that we do not have the money in the budget for a vote and the money to pay 00:03:33
for a salary for new council member at this time. 00:03:41
I would appreciate those words being entered into the record at this time. Thank you. 00:03:49
Thank you. 00:03:55
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:04:08
As you probably know as a. 00:04:13
That have met as a. 00:04:15
As a group of concerned citizens regarding the budget and we've met with Eric on two occasions and we recently received an e-mail. 00:04:18
Letting us know that it is not appropriate for him to meet with us, that he feels that it is a partisan discussion and that we 00:04:27
should seek legal counsel regarding that so. 00:04:31
My concern is how is trying to save? 00:04:37
The residents of Vineyard money a partisan issue. That's my first point. My second point is, and I'm going to quote this from the 00:04:42
e-mail that he sent, the appropriate forum for such discussions involving city residents, staff and council members is our public 00:04:49
council meetings, which are open to everyone and ensure transparency. 00:04:57
Open to everyone for two minutes. 00:05:05
So to tell me that an open meeting with a city staff member? 00:05:09
Is something that we can't do, but we can have two minutes at a City Council is really troubling. 00:05:15
Because if we really want to have informative discussions, things where we learn and you learn, 2 minutes is not sufficient. And 00:05:21
that's what I wanted to share. Thank you. 00:05:26
Russell Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:05:39
Yeah, My comment kind of piggybacks off of Karen's on that comment. This is the meeting to bring forth this kind of stuff. She's 00:05:42
already addressed A2 minute part of it. I'd like to address the part where we don't get answers to questions real time. 00:05:48
We used to get that and I thought that was very useful and informative. Like Kim S question, why are we meeting at 5:30 and that 00:05:55
could be answered in 10 seconds, but instead we have to wait and maybe get get an answer later. And my wife asked questions all 00:06:00
the time and she does not get answers to all of them. 00:06:06
And so that's failing. And also when we do get answers, often it leads to follow up questions which we can't ask because we didn't 00:06:12
get an ask, it didn't get an answer real time. 00:06:17
And so that's my concern is I think we should be able to get answers when when they're available. I realize some answers you don't 00:06:22
have to research them, but some answers we can get right away. And it just would, I think help the way it used to be. I thought it 00:06:28
was very, very useful and beneficial. 00:06:33
And I just like to remind everybody to roll the same team. 00:06:39
We're all Vineyard residents. We all want a good place to live. And and you know, I've said in some of these meetings where I just 00:06:43
walk out shaking my head at some of the comments that have been said in a in a bad way. I think we can disagree in positive ways 00:06:50
and work together compromise. We can we not always going to get our way. I realize that. 00:06:57
But I just like to see us. 00:07:04
Really work hard and really consider one another S opinions and. 00:07:07
Be transparent so we can all know that it's what we're seeing is is so we know what's going on. And thank you for the comment. 00:07:13
Thank you. 00:07:18
OK, are there any other comments? 00:07:28
If not, I'll go ahead and close the public comments. There were a couple things, Eric, I don't know if you wanted to address. 00:07:32
Kim's comment, I mean Karen's comment, we are holding this meeting at 5:30 because we are holding a public hearing that's noticed 00:07:39
and obligated to be done at 6:00. So we have to finish all business before that time. 00:07:45
Thank you for your comments. Otherwise, I don't know if this is the time or if you'd like to address that outside this meeting. 00:07:53
I'm happy to address the question. 00:08:03
One of our council members holds a campaign group through his political group, Politico Group, and that group has formed a. 00:08:06
Committee or a group that. 00:08:20
That are that one council member uses to provide feedback to him on political issues and and and other issues, including financial 00:08:22
guidance. But that is very much a a group that that our council member has formed that a line in in. 00:08:32
In beliefs and. 00:08:42
Purpose behind his campaigning efforts. What I would like to avoid is. 00:08:46
Starting to mix the lines between campaign type activities. Which city staff are not supposed to engage in campaign activities? 00:08:52
And and legitimate questions. And so This is why, This is why there is a division between our elected officials. 00:09:03
Staff in the public so that our elected our elected representatives. 00:09:11
Can interface with the residents of our city and be a resource of information on what is happening in the city. So we our 00:09:17
expectation is that our our our City Council members interact with us frequently and and in as as many meetings as we need to be 00:09:25
sure that each of you are well informed. 00:09:32
And then you, as representatives of the city, can go back to the residents and provide answers and information and explain why 00:09:41
we're doing what we're doing and really kind of have those important, engaging conversations, but that as soon as as we start 00:09:48
gathering with council members, staff and residents. 00:09:55
Especially if those engagements are with particular groups, that's where we might get ourselves in trouble. And that's what I was 00:10:03
trying to get at in that information. I don't know the the legalities of it close enough and that's why I suggested getting legal 00:10:09
feedback on that. 00:10:15
Thank you. Can we get legal feedback on that, Jamie? 00:10:23
The follow up question is. 00:10:27
Being characterized as a political group, there's many people on the committee that are not part of the Vineyard political group, 00:10:31
namely Daria Evans is not a part of the and they were, they, there were four people that were selected and we went through the 00:10:38
approval process of deputizing the four, the, the, the people that we said, hey, these are going to get access to the finances. 00:10:44
And you said, yes, as long as they're your advisors, they can help you. 00:10:51
So is he able to block? 00:10:59
Who I have advised me to come in. 00:11:01
I mean, there's, there's four people that have extreme expertise. Kimberly Olson is a CPA. 00:11:05
David Larae, who's been to more planning sessions than anyone else. 00:11:15
Daria Evans has been to more City Council meetings than anyone else and Sean Herring, who who has the largest background in 00:11:20
development in the city. So all four were were picked. Now there were others that said, hey, if you want to come, but why would a 00:11:26
city manager be able to eliminate who I have advised me? 00:11:33
In a meeting. 00:11:40
You are able to have you're able to consult and liaise with whoever you would like to inform your judgment as a member of the City 00:11:43
Council. 00:11:47
The issue as I understand it is whether. 00:11:51
You, along with whichever citizens you wish to have with you. 00:11:56
Have the right to. 00:12:01
Consume staff time to have these discussions. 00:12:04
And whether that is a sanctioned or official committee of the city, it's not definitely not an official. I mean, there's, there's 00:12:09
a little bit more I'd like to answer and I'm happy to answer any follow-up questions. 00:12:15
There there's a process in city code that lays out how committees are formed and how commissions are. 00:12:22
Formed. There's different types of groups that have different functions. Some cities will have a Finance Committee that's 00:12:30
comprised of members of staff and members of the council. The city could form something like that. That would be the subcommittee 00:12:39
that would roll up its sleeves to get more in depth and spend more time on budget issues and financial issues than what you spend. 00:12:47
During a council meeting, the limited time that we're together each week. 00:12:56
But the the real aspect of what this group was doing that is a concern to me is the use of this term deputized. 00:13:00
They are not deputized or authorized to do anything on behalf of the city. And when you talk about deputized, to me that has 00:13:12
significant legal meaning because it means they act with the same authority that a member of the council would have or that staff 00:13:19
would have. And that just simply isn't the case. Now, I don't mean by that to. 00:13:27
Minimize the importance of staff involvement or the care that or not staff involvement, citizen involvement. 00:13:36
Or the care that these citizens may have for the city, that that may be real. 00:13:44
But it needs to go through the proper channels and I I fear it's a little bit out of order. 00:13:50
To have a single council member quote deputize people. 00:13:57
And then expect that those individuals will be able to call on staff. 00:14:02
And meet with staff whenever they wish, um. 00:14:06
I think that's helpful. The the word deputized was selected by the state auditor, not me. He's the he asked me, he used that term 00:14:10
to be able to share the Ledger or any finances since we were going through the finances of so I could be very careful and I think 00:14:17
deputize is just can I share the finance, the finances that are shared and if we need any training of like what they can and 00:14:25
cannot do, like not posting on social media or something like that. 00:14:32
And I would also show that I think, you know, the state has an assessment where we're graded on if we have a state of a citizen 00:14:40
committee that I agree that the the council, the state wants us to have a selected by everyone, but that was that. 00:14:50
That offer was rejected like to create that and so we just did a smaller of these are advisors that are kind of helping me to kind 00:15:02
of depoliticize the effort and bring the experts to help. So it wasn't any effort and so if we need to walk that legal line so 00:15:08
that. 00:15:15
Those that are of the most experts are can be there that's needed. I mean, I don't know why we wouldn't afford that to me to to be 00:15:21
there. And if we have to go through protocol of what they can and cannot do, obviously I don't think if they are crossing the line 00:15:29
of asking things for staff that would be inappropriate. But almost all of that's been through me and it was very limited. So we 00:15:36
can clean that up. But I just don't want the ability of saying we're not ever going to allow you know, advisors or. 00:15:44
That are in the city to be involved in the process. I think that sends a bad message. 00:15:51
I appreciate that you're the city managers role is to manage the time of staff and make sure that they have time to do their jobs 00:15:56
and to carry out other functions. 00:16:00
I think it's within his right to push back if he feels like meetings are consuming too much time or not happening in the proper 00:16:06
order. I'm happy to advise you on kind of an issue by issue basis of what you can and cannot share. You can. 00:16:13
Liaise with whoever you'd like to inform your judgment before you come to council meetings and vote. That's different from. 00:16:21
Demanding that citizens or that non council members or non employees be permitted to participate in meetings and have free access 00:16:29
to information. 00:16:34
I think one of the things that we should address in this is that while the state auditor may have mentioned that they needed to be 00:16:40
deputized, the I think the discussion was that we were unable to just deputize your specific group. And that if it if we wanted to 00:16:47
create something, it would need to go through the formal process. So if that's something the council wants to address, I'm happy 00:16:53
to bring that forward one, one more. 00:17:00
Footnote I should add to this is that the auditor does have a risk assessment and I'm familiar with that and one of the things 00:17:07
they will look at on the risk assessment is whether you have a quote. 00:17:11
Audit committee. I don't equate the audit committee with the function that you've had this citizen group performing. Typically an 00:17:16
audit committee is a subset of the City Council with either staff or contracted auditor that can inform financial decisions, 00:17:24
financial protocols and that is something they consider when they look at the risk assessment. 00:17:32
I, I would, I would agree with that. I would just say that the, the state auditor was very clear that I can choose. I mean, it 00:17:42
would be very strange, Mayor, Madam Mayor, for you to pick who does or does not advise me, right? He was very clear that I get to 00:17:49
pick. No, absolutely. I don't think that's, let me clarify for you so you know, and then you can tell me if this is wrong. You 00:17:56
could pick whoever you want. If you wanted the council to deputize them, it would go through a formal process. 00:18:03
Where it would be a committee for the whole city. If it's just a group advising you, we wouldn't deputize them. Yeah, I think 00:18:11
we're talking about two different things. Yeah, if it was going to be an official city committee, I understand that that would 00:18:17
definitely be a deputization of that. We're not discussing that. What we're discussing is, is this committee simply got together 00:18:23
and got passed documents of all of the past budget and did an audit of last year's versus this year. So it's definitely an 00:18:29
auditing of exactly what. 00:18:35
You know what, what went on and we found a lot of disparities of, you know, because of their expertise, some of these people have 00:18:41