Joint City Council and Planning Commission Meeting
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Transcript
| We're rolling. | 00:00:00 | |
| Alright, it is October 26, 2022 and I'd like to open our joint vineyard. | 00:00:02 | |
| City Council and Planning Commission meeting. | 00:00:10 | |
| The time is 603. Please remember to silence your cell phones. | 00:00:12 | |
| And we'll go ahead and. | 00:00:17 | |
| Get started. We'll have an invitation by Tyson. He'll lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance as well. | 00:00:19 | |
| Alright, Heavenly Father, we give you thanks for this day, this opportunity we have together, together. | 00:00:29 | |
| Deal with the concerns and needs of our fair city mean, I said. Blessings will be upon all of those who serve. | 00:00:34 | |
| Especially would seek a blessing upon our emergency. | 00:00:40 | |
| Officials are policemen or firemen. | 00:00:44 | |
| And our medical people who care for us. We thank you, Father, for the moisture that has fallen. | 00:00:47 | |
| As we greatly needed. | 00:00:53 | |
| Yes, said blessed weapon, All those in need and we say stupid Jesus Christ. Amen. Please stand. | 00:00:55 | |
| I pledge allegiance through the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. | 00:01:05 | |
| One nation under God. | 00:01:12 | |
| Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. | 00:01:14 | |
| Alright. | 00:01:20 | |
| To this time, we're going to be switching a few of our discussion items. | 00:01:22 | |
| So and we'll put 2.12 point three or two point one, 2.2 and 2.3 in reverse. So we'll start out with our public hearing Zoning Text | 00:01:27 | |
| Amendment Ordinance 2022, Dash 19. | 00:01:33 | |
| And the City Council and Planning Commission are going to both be talking about this. Morgan's going to kick us off. And so Morgan | 00:01:40 | |
| will just let you start and turn the time over. | 00:01:44 | |
| Yeah, and well, that's a good idea to open it first. So I'll need a motion to open a public hearing. | 00:01:49 | |
| So moved by Amber. | 00:01:55 | |
| Second, Second by ties, all in favor, aye? | 00:01:58 | |
| Hi. | 00:02:01 | |
| All right. | 00:02:02 | |
| You're now in a public hearing. Great. Thank you. Madam Mayor. Former. I've got lots of public comments on. Thank you. | 00:02:03 | |
| So I'll, I'll, I'll review just really quickly. So the applicant for the downtown Flag Borough that's a. | 00:02:09 | |
| That is Flagship and Woodbury combined. | 00:02:16 | |
| And they are applying for several text amendments to our downtown vendor, Special Purpose District. | 00:02:20 | |
| And I just wanna wanna explain that they'll get into the the meat of those. | 00:02:26 | |
| And now, as we know, we spent the last 7-8 years planning and designing our downtown, especially within the last three years, | 00:02:30 | |
| getting a much higher level detail. | 00:02:35 | |
| We anticipated as projects came in. | 00:02:41 | |
| It being our special purpose zoning district, being a form based code, meaning that it's very prescriptive, it has. | 00:02:44 | |
| A lot of dimensional requirements for like windows and entryways, porches and whatnot, and you know, landscaping, open spaces. | 00:02:51 | |
| We we kind of anticipated that the first projects would help guide us to so that we could do further modifications and and and be | 00:03:00 | |
| able to implement the plan that was put that was put put in place by by Jeff Speck. | 00:03:06 | |
| And so these these are amendments to that they are not increasing density or anything like that. They're simply allowing us to | 00:03:13 | |
| modify some of the architectural standards and also gets into some of the. | 00:03:20 | |
| The requirements for a parking study and so there, there's a few changes there as well. So without any further ado, I'd like to | 00:03:27 | |
| turn this over to I think it's Pete. Great. And we'll go from there. Thank you. | 00:03:32 | |
| Is it? Is it? | 00:03:43 | |
| Easier for. | 00:03:44 | |
| Me to plug in. | 00:03:46 | |
| I think cash is going to be able to. | 00:03:48 | |
| OK. | 00:03:50 | |
| Great. | 00:03:52 | |
| Um, so appreciate the opportunity. | 00:03:53 | |
| To visit with you about this tonight and as Morgan said. | 00:03:56 | |
| We we, we kind of always knew that as we designed our first set of buildings and and even. | 00:04:00 | |
| Beyond that, there will be some constraints and. | 00:04:05 | |
| Just executional items that we run into that will need to fine tune. | 00:04:08 | |
| From from a really broad form based code. | 00:04:13 | |
| Some of those we've captured here tonight, we've tried to capture all of them so that you know we're not coming back over and over | 00:04:16 | |
| again. | 00:04:19 | |
| As we design other styles of buildings, we may run into other. | 00:04:22 | |
| Architectural issues that that will. | 00:04:26 | |
| Need to talk about as well, but I think this is a a pretty good summary as we've laid out blocks what we call blocks 5:00 and | 00:04:29 | |
| 6:00. | 00:04:33 | |
| Down on the West End of the Promenade. | 00:04:36 | |
| And and designing buildings worked with staff and really appreciate. | 00:04:39 | |
| Their time and effort in in not only working through these but then also. | 00:04:42 | |
| The process that we line out as we go through, as we submit. | 00:04:46 | |
| Before these first set of buildings and. | 00:04:50 | |
| And the the complications that come with submitting. | 00:04:52 | |
| The first two buildings of many buildings in a large scale master plan. | 00:04:56 | |
| And how? | 00:05:00 | |
| That interacts with the code that would that really anticipated kind of 1 building at a time. | 00:05:02 | |
| Type of building, which is what most most codes are geared for. | 00:05:08 | |
| And so with that, if we can go to the next slide, cash. | 00:05:11 | |
| And so the. | 00:05:15 | |
| I I try to break these up into sections of the code and we'll just kind of go through the summary of. | 00:05:17 | |
| What they ask is and the code change and then I can talk a little bit about why we're asking for the change and then hopefully in | 00:05:24 | |
| some of these were examples would help illustrate the point. We have some examples in here as well. | 00:05:31 | |
| So the first one is to modify the downtown station district. | 00:05:38 | |
| Table the use table. | 00:05:41 | |
| So there there's a table in the in the code. | 00:05:43 | |
| That winds out what we what each district area. | 00:05:46 | |
| Is is permitted and not permitted to do as far as building types? | 00:05:50 | |
| We'd like to add to the downtown station district use table. | 00:05:54 | |
| Single household attached as a permitted use, so those would be like townhomes. | 00:06:00 | |
| We we have, for example, an area in. | 00:06:06 | |
| One of the more dense blocks in in what we call block one where we're looking at. | 00:06:08 | |
| Like a a rose style brownstone walk up, a product that we think would be really complementary. | 00:06:14 | |
| To some of the more dense, taller buildings on that block. Currently we're not allowed to do a A. | 00:06:21 | |
| A townhome product like this. A single family attached product. | 00:06:27 | |
| Similarly on the downtown mixed-use. | 00:06:31 | |
| And then in the lakefront commercial district. | 00:06:34 | |
| We'd like to add single household attached. | 00:06:39 | |
| Has permitted these ones with an asterisk. | 00:06:41 | |
| The asterisks would say that the the permitted use would be limited. | 00:06:44 | |
| To 5% or less of the overall units in that district. | 00:06:48 | |
| So that we're still keeping the intent of the density that the city is expecting. | 00:06:52 | |
| But we're allowing the flexibility. | 00:06:57 | |
| For the additional product types. | 00:06:59 | |
| In the downtown mixed-use district, single household detached as a permitted use with an asterisk so. | 00:07:02 | |
| That would be in addition to the the single family or single household attached townhomes. | 00:07:07 | |
| We could have it actually like a single family detached home. | 00:07:14 | |
| We had a situation that I can show you an example of. | 00:07:17 | |
| Where we had two paseos coming together in a Plaza. | 00:07:20 | |
| And the urban planners and said, hey, this would be a great place. | 00:07:23 | |
| For like a live work unit just to create some activity on this Plaza. | 00:07:27 | |
| And keep keep that activity. | 00:07:31 | |
| And going. | 00:07:33 | |
| But you know, the code didn't allow for that use even with like a live work unit where we would have. | 00:07:35 | |
| Like a a you know, an an attorney or an accountant or. | 00:07:41 | |
| And you know, retail or small retail? | 00:07:45 | |
| To take on the 1st floor with with residential above. | 00:07:48 | |
| On a detached building, we wouldn't be able to do that. | 00:07:52 | |
| Again, these these later ones would be within Asterisk so that we're still keeping to the purpose and intent. | 00:07:54 | |
| Of the density that was planned for these areas. | 00:08:01 | |
| But adding in this additional product type that would allow for a little more flexibility on the uses. | 00:08:03 | |
| Village General, District. Amend the table to include single household detached as permitted with an asterisk. | 00:08:09 | |
| And lakefront commercial similarly? | 00:08:16 | |
| Detached with an asterisks. | 00:08:19 | |
| Um. | 00:08:23 | |
| Any any questions on those? | 00:08:25 | |
| Any questions? No. | 00:08:30 | |
| Planning Commission. | 00:08:32 | |
| Yeah. | 00:08:34 | |
| OK. | 00:08:36 | |
| Are you sure? | 00:08:36 | |
| Could you explain? | 00:08:40 | |
| Because I. | 00:08:43 | |
| I appreciate the. | 00:08:44 | |
| All of the ones with the abstract. Could you explain maybe? | 00:08:45 | |
| How many we're looking at with A&B because. | 00:08:48 | |
| Like we just explain it a little bit more. Yeah, so, so A&B, those ones would be so for example. | 00:08:51 | |
| In the downtown station and the downtown mixed-use area. | 00:08:57 | |
| Where we're planning, for example, a parking structure. | 00:09:01 | |
| And we're planning to wrap that parking structure with townhomes, you know, single, family, single. | 00:09:04 | |
| Single. | 00:09:10 | |
| Household. | 00:09:11 | |
| Attached townhomes to hide that. | 00:09:12 | |
| Parking structure. | 00:09:14 | |
| Then you know the those would be kind of more the. | 00:09:16 | |
| Complementary uses. | 00:09:19 | |
| So we're we're not anticipating. | 00:09:20 | |
| Like a townhome development, standalone townhome development per se. | 00:09:23 | |
| It would be a complementary use that would. | 00:09:26 | |
| Wrap parking structures, for example, or. | 00:09:30 | |
| Have like a standalone. | 00:09:33 | |
| Like a few higher end brownstone units on a Plaza and a paseo. | 00:09:35 | |
| Something like that. So you know we we would anticipate those to still be less than 5% but. | 00:09:40 | |
| Those felt like in those more dense districts, they didn't. | 00:09:46 | |
| Really need to be limited because those areas are gonna want to be more dense anyway. | 00:09:49 | |
| Yeah, yeah. I mean, if if there's a concern, we'd be happy to. | 00:09:55 | |
| Cap it at 5%. | 00:09:59 | |
| But I I don't. | 00:10:00 | |
| I don't foresee us getting to 5%. | 00:10:02 | |
| There, those those blocks are gonna be more dense. | 00:10:05 | |
| Umm. | 00:10:08 | |
| I would like advice from planning if we feel that an asterisk would be. | 00:10:09 | |
| Faster if we're OK without it. | 00:10:13 | |
| And we're we're, we're fine either way. I mean the the thought was that's a less dense product type being being proposed in that | 00:10:19 | |
| in that district. | 00:10:23 | |
| And so we know kind of increasing density is typically the more controversial thing. And so I, you know if they're proposing a | 00:10:27 | |
| less dense type from a staff standpoint we we don't, we don't really have any issues with it. So either either way we could add it | 00:10:31 | |
| if you wanted. | 00:10:36 | |
| No, it's fine. Thank you. | 00:10:40 | |
| Morgan, while you're up there. | 00:10:41 | |
| Question on I I get that. | 00:10:43 | |
| Reducing densities typically less controversial. | 00:10:46 | |
| However. | 00:10:49 | |
| We're designing a downtown here. | 00:10:50 | |
| And if it just becomes a clone of everything that's already South of the connector, that is a concern of mine. | 00:10:52 | |
| If it loses that downtown feel or what we were going for. | 00:10:59 | |
| And becomes just more of. | 00:11:03 | |
| Yeah, Yeah. I mean our own product that that already exists the our feeling is that it provides kind of a complimentary and it | 00:11:05 | |
| provides like like some some some variety that you would see and. | 00:11:10 | |
| It's something that was more of an organic downtown that had that had grown up as opposed to just like community accountability | 00:11:15 | |
| and real townhomes or something like that like adding those specific product types in the line for that I think would provide some | 00:11:20 | |
| interest in some variation. | 00:11:24 | |
| But yeah, we we could add the 5%. It just doesn't. Yeah, I mean I guess the the concern, I just wanna the concern I just wanna | 00:11:30 | |
| voice is that. | 00:11:33 | |
| Most mixed areas that we have zoned. | 00:11:37 | |
| Are not mixed and they are just residential. | 00:11:40 | |
| And if this just becomes another. | 00:11:43 | |
| Essentially residential area. That's a major concern to me, yeah. | 00:11:45 | |
| Yeah, that's an easy out. Like I said, I I think in those blocks we didn't put the asterisks because we don't, we don't anticipate | 00:11:51 | |
| even coming close on that, but happy to. | 00:11:54 | |
| Put the cap on just so that everybody's on the same page can Anthony, you felt like the 5%? | 00:11:58 | |
| Answered your question and. | 00:12:03 | |
| Satisfied you? Yeah, I think so. But even with the 5%, I I would just want to make sure that we capture the essence of what a | 00:12:05 | |
| downtown is that we're trying to build and it doesn't just become. | 00:12:09 | |
| You know extend. | 00:12:15 | |
| Everything that's already built NA little bit more that it is something that unique that we that we're preparing for. Did you | 00:12:16 | |
| wanna capture that essence with adding verbiage or were you feeling comfortable with that probably captures that but that that's | 00:12:21 | |
| just I mean that's my overarching feedback on any of these changes is there's a lot of work that's gone into this downtown zoning | 00:12:26 | |
| code and I want to make sure that the. | 00:12:31 | |
| Minor modifications, fine, but the essence of it, so yeah, we we totally agree. So if you go to the the next slide here, this is | 00:12:37 | |
| kind of an example of. | 00:12:41 | |
| Where we had two paseos coming together and there's a little Plaza in the back like a a little conjunction of those that red | 00:12:45 | |
| squares where the urban planners. | 00:12:50 | |
| But hey, this could be a really cool, like standalone. | 00:12:55 | |
| Single family, if you go to the next slide, here's some concepts of that, so you can see kind of that single family. | 00:12:58 | |
| House tucked back on that Plaza. | 00:13:04 | |
| But still surrounded by, you know, kind of the character and nature of the density that. | 00:13:06 | |
| We were talking about in the urban environment. | 00:13:10 | |
| So. | 00:13:13 | |
| So if you go to the next one, it shows a little more clearly. | 00:13:14 | |
| So that that's kind of like a you know plan is like a live work. | 00:13:17 | |
| Unit with some kind of a, you know, public area on the main floor with the residential on the top floor. | 00:13:20 | |
| They go to the next slide. | 00:13:27 | |
| Another another variation of what that could look like. | 00:13:29 | |
| And then finally the next one. | 00:13:32 | |
| You know, just kind of showing. | 00:13:35 | |
| Different variations of of what that condition. The next slide shows a more of a retail condition. | 00:13:37 | |
| That you could have there where you could have, you know, kind of a. | 00:13:42 | |
| One of the other. | 00:13:46 | |
| Items in the code is that there there aren't any single story buildings. | 00:13:49 | |
| And so, you know, we've asked them to modify that so that we could have. | 00:13:52 | |
| Um, single story buildings on approval. We could ask for approval for single story buildings instead of having the not not | 00:13:57 | |
| permitted. | 00:14:01 | |
| Because there will be some retail users. | 00:14:05 | |
| Like little coffee shop stands or. | 00:14:07 | |
| Apple Store for example. | 00:14:10 | |
| That want their own single level building and and you know. | 00:14:12 | |
| We we think you know. | 00:14:17 | |
| To provide that flexibility is important and not have it be permitted necessarily, but have it be permittable. | 00:14:18 | |
| Are you proposing that as a conditional use or no? As a permittable use, so it's a permitted use? You say upon approval? What are | 00:14:26 | |
| the standards you would apply to that? | 00:14:30 | |
| Well, it would have to be a site plan that we proposed to. | 00:14:36 | |
| Planning Commission and City Council. | 00:14:40 | |
| OK. | 00:14:41 | |
| I guess I'm not opposed to that. I just want to make sure the Council and the Planning Commission understands that. | 00:14:43 | |
| If it's permitted with approval, legally it's a permitted use. | 00:14:48 | |
| And so if they submit an application that complies with the ordinance. | 00:14:52 | |
| Would be obligated to. | 00:14:56 | |
| To permit that. | 00:14:58 | |
| Just curious, so if we made it under a conditional use, we wouldn't be obligated? | 00:15:05 | |
| You're still obligated, but you're allowed to apply standards and. | 00:15:10 | |
| Modifying the site plan according to those standards. This would be something in between. | 00:15:15 | |
| And I would view it as a permitted use as that term is used in state law. | 00:15:20 | |
| And and we just. | 00:15:26 | |
| For the record, we'd be OK changing that to a conditional use, I think. | 00:15:27 | |
| I think what you're describing, Jamie, on the conditional use process is probably more what we were envisioning anyway. | 00:15:31 | |
| And and I please don't take my comment as negative or or saying that it's a bad idea. I just want to make sure it's understood | 00:15:37 | |
| what it means. No, I think legally when you approve the ordinance that process I think. | 00:15:42 | |
| The conditional use process was kind of what we were envisioning, where we would come in with a proposal. | 00:15:48 | |
| The the idea on my part was just not have it be unpermitted. | 00:15:53 | |
| OK. | 00:15:58 | |
| And then Marty, the difference, just so you understand it is. | 00:15:59 | |
| If. | 00:16:02 | |
| If they give it some structure here, but it requires approval, it just means they have to create the site plan. | 00:16:03 | |
| That complies with what the code calls for. | 00:16:10 | |
| And if they create that kind of site plan, then the city would be obligated to approve it. | 00:16:13 | |
| If it's a conditional use, then you can. | 00:16:17 | |
| Um mitigated a little bit by Orion and the site requiring parking. | 00:16:21 | |
| Limiting noise, doing those kinds of things so that that fit with the city standards, but. | 00:16:27 | |
| You still, at the end of the day, if you accommodate those factors, you still will. | 00:16:32 | |
| Approve the use, so I guess what I'm. | 00:16:38 | |
| Saying is, make sure you're comfortable with. | 00:16:41 | |
| A single story use in some circumstances because that's what you're approving to allow. | 00:16:44 | |
| OK. Any questions? | 00:16:51 | |
| What do we, I guess is that. | 00:16:53 | |
| Do we need to make that decision? Are you guys? Do you feel comfortable just leaving it as I put a conditional use for a | 00:16:55 | |
| stipulation? | 00:16:59 | |
| For commentary. Thank you. | 00:17:03 | |
| Any other comments on that? | 00:17:05 | |
| No. | 00:17:07 | |
| OK, thanks. So next, next one, item number two would be. | 00:17:08 | |
| To remove the taxi cab. | 00:17:13 | |
| Designation as a prohibited use. | 00:17:16 | |
| And this is this is again, not us envisioning running a taxi cab operation. | 00:17:18 | |
| In Town Center. But but we do think that in the future there will probably be really creative. | 00:17:24 | |
| Ride sharing and car car sharing and things like that. | 00:17:30 | |
| And then we want to be able to have the flexibility. | 00:17:35 | |
| To be able to implement some of those programs without technically. | 00:17:38 | |
| Running afoul of the. | 00:17:43 | |
| Taxicab provision in the code. | 00:17:44 | |
| Well, and I wonder, does taxicab kind of get rid of Ubers or other things like that? | 00:17:47 | |
| You know. | 00:17:53 | |
| That would make it less profitable. | 00:17:54 | |
| To. | 00:17:55 | |
| OK. | 00:17:56 | |
| Any comments on that one? | 00:17:57 | |
| Yeah. | 00:17:59 | |
| OK. | 00:18:00 | |
| The next one is is building standards. | 00:18:02 | |
| So the request here is to modify the minimum ground story transparency. | 00:18:05 | |
| What what it says in the code right now is minimum ground story transparency measured between 0 and 10 feet above grade. | 00:18:11 | |
| And will be 60% and we're asking to modify that to 40 and. | 00:18:18 | |
| I think we probably ought to have a discussion on whether. | 00:18:21 | |
| 40 is still too high. | 00:18:25 | |
| And I will show you some examples here and and talk about the reason why we're asking for this. The next, the next one there is | 00:18:27 | |
| just the single story building that we just talked about. | 00:18:33 | |
| And then? | 00:18:38 | |
| The minimum ground floor height. So let's go through these one by one. So minimum ground story transparency if you'll go 2 slides | 00:18:41 | |
| down please. | 00:18:45 | |
| So this is showing a a rendering of a building where the ground story, ground story transparency. | 00:18:50 | |
| There's 37.8 glazing. | 00:18:57 | |
| Percent glazing. | 00:19:00 | |
| So 37.8% of the first floor of that building is glass. | 00:19:01 | |
| It's a lot of glass. | 00:19:05 | |
| The next one down is 45.4. | 00:19:07 | |
| And so you can see it this this probably this condition. | 00:19:10 | |
| In the code was anticipating. | 00:19:15 | |
| 1st floor retail basically everywhere. | 00:19:19 | |
| And that's just not a condition. We have first floor retail in some selected areas. | 00:19:22 | |
| In a lot of the buildings we have. | 00:19:26 | |
| 1st floor residential with stoop conditions and porches. | 00:19:30 | |
| And some really cool pedestrian activity. | 00:19:33 | |
| Oriented buildings that are going to really activate our streets and paseos. | 00:19:37 | |
| But a lot of those are not really conducive to having full glass along the front of your unit. | 00:19:41 | |
| As you're on a paseo or a walkway or street. | 00:19:46 | |
| And there's a lot of people walking by. | 00:19:49 | |
| Um, so reducing that glazing requirement would allow us to? | 00:19:52 | |
| The we think more architecturally appropriate. | 00:19:56 | |
| On the 1st floor with the buildings giving given the building use. | 00:19:59 | |
| And the unit types on that first floor. | 00:20:04 | |
| I think we'd still be. | 00:20:07 | |
| I think fine having some sort of a. | 00:20:09 | |
| Requirement on. | 00:20:11 | |
| Areas where we have either a retail or a public use. So in other words where we have a lobby, a common area lobby or a you know, a | 00:20:13 | |
| corner retail area which we're planning several in. | 00:20:19 | |
| Where we expect there to be a little restaurant or a fitness center. | 00:20:25 | |
| Or something like that we can. | 00:20:29 | |
| Add more glazing in those areas, but where they're gonna be residential units. | 00:20:31 | |
| That much glass with that much pedestrian traffic out in front. | 00:20:36 | |
| Is not architecturally appropriate. | 00:20:41 | |
| So your top one is 37% correct. | 00:20:46 | |
| Yeah, so you can see how much glass. | 00:20:51 | |
| That is on that first floor, you know, as you're walking down that street. | 00:20:53 | |
| Most of what you would see would be. | 00:20:57 | |
| Floor to ceiling windows. | 00:21:00 | |
| Yeah, sure. Another another reason for this is sustainability. | 00:21:03 | |
| And as we've talked to it, we're trying to do a lot of sustainable things in the community and obviously. | 00:21:06 | |
| The heating and cooling standpoint standpoint, the more glass you have the more problematic it is to. | 00:21:11 | |
| To achieve some of those sustainable standards we're trying to achieve. So that's another part of that. | 00:21:17 | |
| Is this divided by use or is it an overall percentage along your projects? The code currently doesn't discriminate between uses, | 00:21:23 | |
| it's just the ground floor. | 00:21:27 | |
| Between 0 and 10 feet. | 00:21:33 | |
| Hmm. And again I that that makes sense where you have. | 00:21:36 | |
| A retail on the main floor and it's a storefront condition. | 00:21:40 | |
| And you've got glass doors. That all works. | 00:21:44 | |
| And if those are are those are housing units? | 00:21:47 | |
| On the first floor. | 00:21:50 | |
| You don't want the whole front of your unit to be glass. | 00:21:51 | |
| Well, I'm sorry. | 00:21:55 | |
| Yeah, you know you're gonna do this. You cannot be quiet. You can't be quiet. But another thing is there's we've activated this | 00:21:57 | |
| from working with Jeff Speck to get people in these units out into these areas. | 00:22:03 | |
| So most multifamily projects you see. | 00:22:09 | |
| Are accessed from a corridor in the back. | 00:22:12 | |
| And that keeps limited activity out on the street and pedestrians. And what makes the place feel more safe is more pedestrians out | 00:22:15 | |
| on the street. | 00:22:18 | |
| So what we've done here? | 00:22:22 | |
| Is. | 00:22:24 | |
| All of these units here on the main level are accessed from this main level here, so there is no back corridor for the main floor | 00:22:25 | |
| units. | 00:22:28 | |
| Which is very unique. And so part of that too is you're going to have doors there. | 00:22:33 | |
| And having glass doors there. | 00:22:36 | |
| Like Pete said, with this extremely pedestrian friendly area and then everything is glass, you can just walk down that street and | 00:22:38 | |
| look and. | 00:22:42 | |
| In every bedrooms and. | 00:22:46 | |
| All sorts of different things of those units. So a lot of that's privacy for those units. | 00:22:48 | |
| Morgan, are there codes that discriminate between uses on glazing where you could say X amount of percentage for frontage for | 00:22:52 | |
| storefronts and this amount of percentage for? | 00:22:57 | |
| Residential uses. | 00:23:03 | |
| Yeah yeah you you you could take condition it with that. | 00:23:09 | |
| So if you wanted more for the for the retailer, you could you could break out the the use type. | 00:23:13 | |
| And that and that. That's a pretty easy site plan review. | 00:23:18 | |
| Hmm, so. | 00:23:21 | |
| So that might be something I wanna keep the the 60 on retail and then you know 40 on residential or whatever that number is. Yeah, | 00:23:22 | |
| 37 and and Matt beaten with. | 00:23:27 | |
| Nelson Architects is on Zoom and so you know what, Matt, I don't know if you can. | 00:23:34 | |
| Here is if you have anything you want to add. | 00:23:39 | |
| Yeah. Thanks. Can you hear me? Yes. | 00:23:43 | |
| Yeah this is good discussion everything. I think dividing it up between uses is really far idea. I think maybe there's a way to | 00:23:46 | |
| condition the type the code so that. | 00:23:51 | |
| The percentage is tied to the specific use. | 00:23:57 | |
| Yeah. I think, I think you said early on that even 40% maybe too high and we have three very large windows at the ground floor. | 00:24:01 | |
| About the largest. | 00:24:10 | |
| Condition. | 00:24:13 | |
| Kind of running about 45%. | 00:24:14 | |
| I mean, I think this vision maybe some areas of residential architecture where it would be a little less than 20%, maybe 35%. | 00:24:17 | |
| So. | 00:24:25 | |
| I don't know what that number is or wants to be that they've 40% probably did that. | 00:24:25 | |
| 60% residential use. | 00:24:32 | |
| Is there anything you can see? I'm having trouble seeing what's actually on the screen, but I think. | 00:24:35 | |
| The right hand side of that. | 00:24:39 | |
| Image. | 00:24:42 | |
| In any space. | 00:24:45 | |
| So. | 00:24:48 | |
| Where we are being sensitive to years ago. | 00:24:49 | |
| You know, retail space or a space or a leasing office. | 00:24:52 | |
| And fully glazed and, you know, super visible and locally to the street. | 00:24:56 | |
| And then when we get back to the. | 00:25:02 | |
| Residential units, we really want a little bit of little market. | 00:25:04 | |
| I think 40 percent, 3540% of the. | 00:25:09 | |
| Kind of benchmark for that. So I think that's pretty smart idea for you. | 00:25:12 | |
| Find a way to divide that. | 00:25:16 | |
| Percentage based on these? | 00:25:18 | |
| So Matt, on the. | 00:25:22 | |
| Kind of orange area that you've outlined. | 00:25:24 | |
| And that's like 37.8 so if we said 35 on residential and. | 00:25:27 | |
| Well, I mean the what what we have right now I think. | 00:25:32 | |
| On the lobby and future retail area is 45. | 00:25:36 | |
| I mean, do you? | 00:25:40 | |
| Is 45 plus only because we're including all that regional space in it. So yeah, residential I think it's closer. | 00:25:43 | |
| Yeah. And so are, I guess my question is on the retail area is 60. | 00:25:51 | |
| An OK number on the retail area. | 00:25:57 | |
| I didn't get that. I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't wanna do anything less than that probably for retail, OK? | 00:26:01 | |
| Kind of a man. | 00:26:07 | |
| So 35 and 60. | 00:26:12 | |
| Yeah. | 00:26:15 | |
| OK. Council, Planning Commission to guys have any questions or thoughts on that? Just one comment here for me. It's not so much | 00:26:17 | |
| about the percent of glass. Again, I think we knew this when we were going in that that's a high amount and almost. | 00:26:23 | |
| Forcing that to be ground level retail, that was very clear that that was the intent. | 00:26:30 | |
| So again, just to my concern or caution is that we're shifting away from the original intent that we're getting. | 00:26:35 | |
| More of a residential neighborhood feel than the. | 00:26:42 | |
| Downtown feel with with bottom floor retail so. | 00:26:46 | |
| Is that the comment I want to make, is that, OK, so Anthony what you're what you're saying is because we put the 60% it forces | 00:26:49 | |
| retail and doesn't allow residential and Morgan would you say the code speaks to Anthony Anthony's comment that way that 60% | 00:26:55 | |
| designates that? | 00:27:00 | |
| And that we're moving away from the use that we hoped for. | 00:27:06 | |
| Yeah, I mean and that and that that that's one of the the main things like signifiers for for retail that that kind of urban. | 00:27:10 | |
| Tree farm retail is the magic glass. I think maintaining the 60% kind of in our planner world like that that would definitely have | 00:27:16 | |
| the appearance of of a retail storefront. And then the residential, the the 35% you know make makes a lot of sense. I mean because | 00:27:23 | |
| I think you're taking the aggregate. So we would do the calculation based off of like that full frontage for the the residential. | 00:27:30 | |
| But we we feel like that that would trait that parents the 60% is the real storefront window kind of design. | 00:27:38 | |
| What I'm wondering, did we decide on 60%? | 00:27:46 | |
| Kind of trying to force that 60% of that main floor would be retail. So we're looking at one building. | 00:27:48 | |
| No I so so the this so the intent was. | 00:27:54 | |
| On the so the 16% was just blanket. | 00:27:59 | |
| But there there are. | 00:28:02 | |
| Specific areas in the code that have to be first floor retail. | 00:28:03 | |
| So along along Market Street. | 00:28:07 | |
| Along some areas of the promenade. | 00:28:10 | |
| So in those areas, there's those, those have to be first floor retail. | 00:28:12 | |
| And I think the glazing requirement May is logical and makes sense for those. | 00:28:16 | |
| The problem is that. | 00:28:20 | |
| We didn't differentiate between. | 00:28:22 | |
| Retail and residential and I understand what Anthony is saying is that. | 00:28:24 | |
| And if we just if we just keep it all 60 then. | 00:28:28 | |
| Every main floor of every building in here will be retail, but it's that's not realistic. | 00:28:31 | |
| And so. | 00:28:36 | |
| You know, realistically we've consolidated first floor retail in the areas where they make sense. | 00:28:37 | |
| And the other areas that are going to be residential on the main floor need to have an architectural condition that's conducive to | 00:28:43 | |
| residential. | 00:28:46 | |
| Yeah. So I I understand that and I think, I think all I'm calling out is. | 00:28:50 | |
| With a change like this, I think we need to understand and accept that we are almost certain to not get retail anywhere other than | 00:28:54 | |
| where it's required. Yeah, I we're OK with that. And I think that's that's true and not true. I mean. | 00:29:00 | |
| You're you're right. I mean you won't be mandated to have, you know kind of like. | 00:29:07 | |
| Are almost almost like functionally mandated to have retail on the main floor, right? Even though you're not legally mandated to | 00:29:12 | |
| have retail on the main floor? | 00:29:16 | |
| But I think the way that we're designing this is to have future retail in areas where we think they make a lot of sense. So for | 00:29:20 | |
| example, in this building in particular. | 00:29:25 | |
| On the corner, that's on the promenade. | 00:29:29 | |
| And a paseo coming out that we think's gonna have. | 00:29:32 | |
| Really high pedestrian activity. | 00:29:35 | |
| We're putting our fitness center there, but we're also designing in grease traps. | 00:29:37 | |
| So that we can have turn that into a restaurant. | 00:29:41 | |
| In the future, if that makes sense. | 00:29:43 | |
| So I think, I think we're trying to future proof. | 00:29:46 | |
| The development in a way that provides for as much retail as we can. | 00:29:49 | |
| But. | 00:29:53 | |
| You know. | 00:29:54 | |
| Also modifying it so that we're putting retail. | 00:29:56 | |
| We're mandating the retail condition. | 00:29:59 | |
| Where the code says that we're required to have retail. | 00:30:02 | |
| Deserves those those three main districts and then provides that architectural distinction in areas where you'll you'll have that | 00:31:06 | |
| true mixed-use where it's not required. | 00:31:10 | |
| Any other comments on that? | 00:31:19 | |
| And. | 00:31:23 | |
| I think maybe something to consider when you're looking over this is if you wanted to say a reduction of blazing that maybe you | 00:31:24 | |
| say we're hoping to see X amount of retail in this area, maybe that's where you would take your conversation. | 00:31:30 | |
| And. | 00:31:37 | |
| And the upcoming conversation, OK. | 00:31:38 | |
| Any other comments? | 00:31:41 | |
| No. | 00:31:43 | |
| OK. | 00:31:43 | |
| Next. | 00:31:44 | |
| And. | 00:31:45 | |
| So in in Section D, in in D, if you go back to that text, Amendment #3. Thanks. | 00:31:47 | |
| So Dee was demise lines. | 00:31:52 | |
| So in the code right now, there's a requirement that to break up the linear span of buildings so that they. | 00:31:55 | |
| There's not too long of a run. | 00:32:01 | |
| With one look. | 00:32:04 | |
| So every 200 feet there needs to be a demising break in the building facade so that it looks like another building. | 00:32:05 | |
| And you have that you know that architectural. | 00:32:14 | |
| Variability and variety as you walk down that street. | 00:32:17 | |
| And we're we're asking them to limit that to six stories in height. | 00:32:21 | |
| So we had a building. | 00:32:27 | |
| Greater than six stories in height. | 00:32:29 | |
| And we wouldn't want to artificially break up those Dumayas lines on a on what we would call a tower. | 00:32:31 | |
| Because it just looks artificial and. | 00:32:39 | |
| And. | 00:32:42 | |
| You know, like a forced condition. | 00:32:43 | |
| Where with the tower. | 00:32:45 | |
| You're more looking at, you know, kind of more glass. | 00:32:47 | |
| More architectural styling. | 00:32:51 | |
| And and not necessarily relying on the demising breakup of the the facade to create a really interesting building. | 00:32:53 | |
| And. | 00:33:06 | |
| This, this game, this was Jeff Speck's idea like. | 00:33:07 | |
| We talked about Boston, for example, how Boston has on the lower buildings. | 00:33:10 | |
| The brownstone type look that they get broken up every few 100 feet, but then they still have large. | 00:33:15 | |
| Large glass towers and are mixed in that and I can't remember who made the club, I don't know if it was. | 00:33:21 | |
| Planning Commission last week someone said, yeah, it's kind of like trying to create a tower and it looks like New York, NY and | 00:33:26 | |
| Las Vegas where you have one building that tries to make it look like 6, you know? | 00:33:30 | |
| And that was a good image for me on that. But this this idea came from Jeff Speck because we've been looking at building taller | 00:33:36 | |
| buildings, trying to break those up. It's just. | 00:33:40 | |
| Try hard to make those look like different buildings. | 00:33:45 | |
| In a tower setting. | 00:33:49 | |
| And make it look good. | 00:33:51 | |
| Can you do it? | 00:33:53 | |
| Any comments on that? | 00:33:57 | |
| No. | 00:33:59 | |
| OK, let's go to the next one. | 00:34:00 | |
| Next slide. | 00:34:04 | |
| So on on. | 00:34:07 | |
| These these sections really have to do with their residential conditions as they meet. | 00:34:09 | |
| The street. | 00:34:14 | |
| And. | 00:34:15 | |
| Looking at different ways that we do Stoops and porches. | 00:34:18 | |
| And and again, transparency. | 00:34:22 | |
| So A through D are basically removing. | 00:34:24 | |
| Requirements for stoop and porch sizes. | 00:34:28 | |
| And and transparencies. Matt, I don't know if you wanna speak to this a little bit. | 00:34:31 | |
| Maybe we lost now. | 00:34:43 | |
| So Ohh, go ahead. | 00:34:45 | |
| Yes. | 00:34:49 | |
| Yeah, I I feel like you know there's there's we're trying to provide a variety of kind of ground level conditions and. | 00:34:52 | |
| Grand model. | 00:34:59 | |
| And. | 00:35:01 | |
| Part part of. | 00:35:02 | |
| So we're talking about spying. We're also talking about kind of height. I think there's some. | 00:35:05 | |
| Flower. | 00:35:09 | |
| You know what we're trying to do on the ground floor of Building 5 and Six in particular, again, when they were talking about | 00:35:10 | |
| elevating the interior corridor. | 00:35:14 | |
| To promote. | 00:35:19 | |
| Activity on the street and and. | 00:35:21 | |
| Activate the streets around. | 00:35:23 | |
| Have people be able to use the street. | 00:35:25 | |
| And how do you? | 00:35:28 | |
| The suits. | 00:35:30 | |
| Or you can do. | 00:35:32 | |
| Are really kind of everyone's front door and so we're trying to provide the wide variety of conditions along there. | 00:35:33 | |
| Sizes and the skin. | 00:35:41 | |
| Right. | 00:35:43 | |
| Or kind of. | 00:35:44 | |
| International requirements and high requirements were exposed to restrictive. | 00:35:45 | |
| We're going to have. | 00:35:50 | |
| Grant accessible entrances on the ground floor. | 00:35:51 | |
| That means, you know, they're not going to be kind of talk about the grade. They'll be right back grade. | 00:35:54 | |
| Which kind of was a? | 00:35:59 | |
| I think everyone. | 00:36:04 | |
| Is the first born indeed. | 00:36:07 | |
| 1st. | 00:36:09 | |
| Yeah. | 00:36:11 | |
| Yep. | 00:36:12 | |
| So, yeah. So I think that's kind of what I think we want to talk about is. | 00:36:14 | |
| You know. | 00:36:18 | |
| Very sensible entry on the ground for for us to. | 00:36:20 | |
| It's not coming up. You're you're you're being able to. | 00:36:24 | |
| Like. | 00:36:28 | |
| Rule right of your unit for 12 people. | 00:36:29 | |
| So she's gonna. | 00:36:35 | |
| Why it's 13 to 24 with that? | 00:36:36 | |
| Some imagery. | 00:36:39 | |
| So. | 00:36:41 | |
| Conditions that were that were dying. | 00:36:43 | |
| You'll be able to see. | 00:36:48 | |
| We're trying to accomplish. | 00:36:51 | |
| There we go. | 00:36:54 | |
| Somewhere in there or somewhere. | 00:37:00 | |
| Well, she he he doesn't see him on Zoom yet. | 00:37:04 | |
| I I don't think. | 00:37:08 | |
| I don't think Pam has the latest version. | 00:37:11 | |
| And. | 00:37:14 | |
| You need to refresh what you're looking at. I think you've got like a. | 00:37:15 | |
| Older version of it. | 00:37:19 | |
| This is the one I received at 519. | 00:37:26 | |
| OK, so mount. Mount. Well, she's refreshing that we're we're looking at your slides. | 00:37:28 | |
| OK. So you just kind of travel through those slides? | 00:37:34 | |
| Because the. | 00:37:38 | |
| All the the various conditions, so I mean I guess. | 00:37:39 | |
| And even within within block five and six, we have some. | 00:37:42 | |
| Like 1-6 is all on the ground. All that rolling conditions with Corvette. | 00:37:47 | |
| I guess so. | 00:37:53 | |
| They have their own place. | 00:37:55 | |
| You know. | 00:37:58 | |
| Conditioner. | 00:37:59 | |
| Correctly word. | 00:38:01 | |
| And verify and hanging around all condition. Hmm. | 00:38:02 | |
| And then? | 00:38:06 | |
| No. | 00:38:10 | |
| And you had final three or do you have another one, right? | 00:38:13 | |
| We have a little more variety where. | 00:38:16 | |
| But we do have students because you can get in here from the back. So that we pulled this up. | 00:38:18 | |
| Again, exactly right here we have kind of a point guard condition. | 00:38:23 | |
| Where you're you're, this is probably more in line with. | 00:38:27 | |
| We have a very tall kind of floor floor. | 00:38:33 | |
| For. | 00:38:35 | |
| From having grade. | 00:38:36 | |
| Or. | 00:38:39 | |
| We don't have 12 feet all the time. It's all. It's all. | 00:38:40 | |
| 9:00. | 00:38:43 | |
| We're asking for just a little bit of relief on that if we can have a range of nine. | 00:38:45 | |
| It really allows for that variety. | 00:38:51 | |
| And we're we're going after, please. | 00:38:54 | |
| And Matt, can you speak a little bit just to the the size requirements on the porches and Stoops? | 00:38:58 | |
| And the transparency requirements on the front. | 00:39:03 | |
| Yeah. So again, the transparency, I mean, this is a residential condition we don't really want to have. | 00:39:08 | |
| You know, all glaze and necessary full glazing. | 00:39:16 | |
| A little bit of privacy. | 00:39:23 | |
| So you kind of like a traditional city like Boston or New York where? | 00:39:24 | |
| Patient. | 00:39:31 | |
| Smaller windows today. | 00:39:33 | |
| If you're on the street here. | 00:39:34 | |
| Kind of a little bit of a. | 00:39:37 | |
| Of a break my line so that that you back up one. | 00:39:39 | |
| You know, I guess that's a good example right here. | 00:39:43 | |
| So this is not a fully glazed front. | 00:39:46 | |
| So this is back to that kind of 30 and 35%? | 00:39:49 | |
| Transparency that we're talking about before, you really don't want to have any border entrances in this year. | 00:39:53 | |
| Yarn for people living on the ground floor to. | 00:39:59 | |
| Exposed to people on the street and then the size requirements. | 00:40:02 | |
| I can't remember. Can you help me out? Yeah, so that. | 00:40:08 | |
| Yeah, we had a We had a minimum stoop in porch size that we were really bumping into. | 00:40:13 | |
| And on designing these first two blocks, where? | 00:40:19 | |
| We had some work, more creative, really interesting scoop and porch concepts that just didn't fit. | 00:40:22 | |
| And within the code and so. | 00:40:28 | |
| The request was to remove the minimum sizes for Stoops and porches. | 00:40:30 | |
| Right. | 00:40:36 | |
| Or you can see here like right when. | 00:40:37 | |
| 3. | 00:40:41 | |
| I'm Craig. | 00:40:44 | |
| On the code. | 00:40:45 | |
| Understood. Parts of it just to be able to provide you and pushing forward that kind of variety. | 00:40:47 | |
| You know, when you come out of your course, maybe there's more like 3 foot landing and some steps down, but then it kind of breaks | 00:40:52 | |
| out into a side. | 00:40:56 | |
| But. | 00:41:04 | |
| I think it's just a matter of. | 00:41:05 | |
| Not only have a right to prescription code to allow for more variety. | 00:41:07 | |
| And not be so kind of kind of a. | 00:41:12 | |
| Imagine. | 00:41:17 | |
| And another another reason for the porch condition on the inside of the courtyards. You know this. Here we're talking Paseo. | 00:41:19 | |
| Yeah, the backside of the building is in that kind of common courtyard area and we talked about. | 00:41:26 | |
| The larger those portraits, those private porches become, eats more into that kind of. | 00:41:33 | |
| Public private courtyard that that all the residents have to share and so, like the residents on the main level, get an extra few | 00:41:38 | |
| feet. | 00:41:41 | |
| But then it reduces the amount of overall private space that that overall building has. So if you're on the second level, you're | 00:41:45 | |
| just kind of out of luck. | 00:41:49 | |
| So having some private porches on the interior condition. | 00:41:53 | |
| Of those courtyards. But then. | 00:41:57 | |
| Having more, having larger private space for all of the residents in there, so the courtyards in these areas will be key card | 00:41:59 | |
| access. | 00:42:03 | |
| So this is where they'll have kind of. | 00:42:06 | |
| It'll be public to whoever lives in their building, but. | 00:42:09 | |
| But private from all these public vassals and everywhere else that we want all this activity on, so that there is some place to go | 00:42:13 | |
| and have a little BBQ for example. | 00:42:17 | |
| You know, a little more private area to let your kids go around and feel like you can be in your unit looking out your window. | 00:42:21 | |
| But not out in the parcels are on the Promenade for example and we think it's important that those. | 00:42:28 | |
| Those those courtyard areas can be a little bit larger as part of the logic behind that porch area too. | 00:42:32 | |
| Any questions or comments on? | 00:42:42 | |
| Porches Stoops. | 00:42:44 | |
| Just a thought. | 00:42:46 | |
| Umm. | 00:42:49 | |
| The reason for that back in the day? | 00:42:51 | |
| Because we don't want postage stamp. | 00:42:55 | |
| Horses. | 00:42:59 | |
| Where? | 00:43:01 | |
| You put a chair in, you're done. | 00:43:01 | |
| We want this to look like a livable space instead of a inner city. | 00:43:05 | |
| Squash. | 00:43:09 | |
| I I'm fine with providing you flexibility as long as we don't revert. | 00:43:12 | |
| To the standard. | 00:43:18 | |
| Cheap version hmm of this. | 00:43:20 | |
| I see some of your arguments. | 00:43:24 | |
| OK. | 00:43:25 | |
| But I'm scared to death. | 00:43:26 | |
| From past experience of what we get. | 00:43:29 | |
| So. | 00:43:33 | |
| I'm willing to go for flexibility, Morgan. | 00:43:34 | |
| But I want some guarantees. | 00:43:37 | |
| Where architecture? | 00:43:39 | |
| Allows it. | 00:43:41 | |
| And the situation allows for it. | 00:43:44 | |
| If I. | 00:43:47 | |
| Bought one of those apartments. I want more than one chair on my damn patio. | 00:43:48 | |
| Hmm. OK. | 00:43:52 | |
| Understand we need traffic in the front. | 00:43:55 | |
| But I still want that open appearance. | 00:43:58 | |
| That welcoming et cetera. | 00:44:02 | |
| That's very important to this place. | 00:44:04 | |
| OK. | 00:44:07 | |
| So I guess I'm cautionary tale. | 00:44:09 | |
| I trust you, but I don't trust you. Hmm. | 00:44:12 | |
| Morgan and just as we talk about this, is there anything that we could do to? | 00:44:16 | |
| And words, methods to alleviate the concerns that Tyson is feeling. Or should we continue and think about that and navigate that | 00:44:22 | |
| as we get into our council discussion? | 00:44:26 | |
| Yeah, I mean I I think part of it too is Bronson if you guys have the the the schematics that show kind of the front yard area | 00:44:33 | |
| they I think that that was part of it too is. | 00:44:38 | |
| Yeah. If you don't, if you don't have the Stoops, then it provides like a front yard area. It provides more area where neighbors | 00:44:44 | |
| would be outside and and they're, you know it, it provides kind of that at a place where you can have social gathering. It's a | 00:44:49 | |
| little bit stuck concept is kind of dated. Yeah, it is. OK. I understand that. | 00:44:55 | |
| But I want us to come up with. | 00:45:02 | |
| A situation that provides the same thing in centuries past. | 00:45:05 | |
| That astute provided I understand. | 00:45:10 | |
| Still doesn't work for me. What about the concepts that you're talking about and replacing it with that is, is that outlined in | 00:45:13 | |
| our current plan? | 00:45:17 | |
| That says hey, we're replacing it with XY and Z. | 00:45:22 | |
| Yeah, I think we could say maybe we say that there's a that there. | 00:45:25 | |
| If there's not a minimum size in the porch area, if it's on a paseo, a larger paseo, or a courtyard example where it backs enough. | 00:45:29 | |
| Because I think what we're trying to get at is the same thing here. And so having some language in there that talks about. | 00:45:36 | |
| You know there there is a minimum port size unless you're on a paseo or a courtyard for example, so that. | 00:45:42 | |
| And then there's some variety in the ability of the scoops that because this is a really good plan that we've submitted here to to | 00:45:48 | |
| see. But once again, this is 2 buildings of an awful lot of buildings and so keeping that. | 00:45:54 | |
| Keeping that language and protection in there, I think we're OK with because that's our intent. So I think talking about maybe. | 00:46:02 | |
| Having if there's courtyards or paseos with those buildings being submitted that those, then those porch requirements can go away | 00:46:08 | |
| so that we're not just. | 00:46:11 | |
| Because I it's kind of back to Anthony's point of we gotta make sure we're creating this intent of this urban downtown that we're | 00:46:15 | |
| all trying to create. And I think the buildings were submitting are we don't want you to feel like we're trying to submit these | 00:46:21 | |
| buildings and then change and revert back to you know stuff that's been done in the past that that no one really loves. | 00:46:27 | |
| I agree with your. | 00:46:35 | |
| Approach, Yeah. | 00:46:37 | |
| I'm just concerned that we continue to have some. | 00:46:39 | |
| I would get it in the code that way. Yeah. Yeah. Would that would that work, you guys? Like, if there's courtyards? And yeah, | 00:46:43 | |
| Matt, Matt, what were you gonna say? | 00:46:47 | |
| You can do that. | 00:46:53 | |
| Accident which is the left hand. | 00:46:55 | |
| You know we are trying to keep the scale. If you look around the perimeter Public St. | 00:46:59 | |
| Because the every unit recess is back. | 00:47:06 | |
| And push it forward so we have a public street, so. | 00:47:08 | |
| They're much larger. | 00:47:16 | |
| Ohh, you're on the street. | 00:47:19 | |
| Thank you. | 00:47:21 | |
| So we can add that in. | 00:47:25 | |
| When you're facing. | 00:47:29 | |
| For Harvard. | 00:47:32 | |
| Before I send it. | 00:47:38 | |
| You see, we don't really have to recess in there. | 00:47:39 | |
| So when you have covered, kind of come out, but the idea is that the courtyard is really hard, so you're sharing a yard maybe. | 00:47:42 | |
| You know, eight or nine different families and units, but it's really belongs to the residents. | 00:47:52 | |
| Ownership. | 00:47:58 | |
| We don't have. | 00:48:01 | |
| Baseline and really reactions to. | 00:48:09 | |
| Wasn't. | 00:48:11 | |
| Street furniture. | 00:48:14 | |
| I think there is some level of. | 00:48:18 | |
| Happiness gives a sensibility. | 00:48:20 | |
| OK. | 00:48:26 | |
| That makes sense. Yep. Let's go to the next one. OK. Any questions? | 00:48:27 | |
| No. | 00:48:31 | |
| OK. And were were there any questions on the? | 00:48:37 | |
| Minimum ground floor height. | 00:48:40 | |
| Growing to 9 to 12 feet instead of 12 feet. | 00:48:43 | |
| I think Matt explained that pretty well, but. | 00:48:46 | |
| Wanted to make sure we didn't. | 00:48:48 | |
| Move on from that if you had questions, we're good. | 00:48:50 | |
| OK. | 00:48:52 | |
| OK. | 00:48:54 | |
| Um. | 00:48:58 | |
| Yeah, I think. | 00:49:02 | |
| Speaks. | 00:49:04 | |
| I think we are a #5. Yep, structure is an open space. | 00:49:05 | |
| So in the structures in the open space. | 00:49:09 | |
| Section of the code. | 00:49:13 | |
| There were there. There are limits to how much of the open space. | 00:49:15 | |
| In courtyards and plazas. | 00:49:20 | |
| And paseos can be covered with structures. | 00:49:23 | |
| And. | 00:49:27 | |
| And as we've as we as we've started landscape planning on some of those those. | 00:49:28 | |
| Some of those areas want to have more cover than others and So what we're asking for is, is a site plan. | 00:49:34 | |
| Approval process instead of a strict. | 00:49:41 | |
| Restriction. | 00:49:44 | |
| On some of those percentages, so that we can look at that. | 00:49:46 | |
| On a case by case basis. | 00:49:49 | |
| Any comments or questions on that? | 00:49:53 | |
| Yeah, we've got some examples like on. | 00:49:57 | |
| Here where you can see the. | 00:50:00 | |
| That pavilion would cover, you know, a greater percentage of. | 00:50:02 | |
| What would be termed as a a little Plaza there? | 00:50:06 | |
| But it's in the middle of. | 00:50:10 | |
| Yeah, that's the Transit Plaza. | 00:50:12 | |
| And so the idea there would be to have a pavilion in the transit Plaza that could be a resting area or. | 00:50:14 | |
| Maybe a future commercial standalone restaurant type of thing? | 00:50:21 | |
| Um. | 00:50:25 | |
| But. | 00:50:26 | |
| You know right now would would probably run afoul of the. | 00:50:27 | |
| Restrictions on covered area. | 00:50:30 | |
| So just move that to a a case by case site plan. | 00:50:33 | |
| Basis as we're planning these different open space areas to be approved. | 00:50:37 | |
| At that time. | 00:50:42 | |
| OK. | 00:50:43 | |
| Questions. So Morgan, do we want to provide a list of approved? | 00:50:45 | |
| Or just leave it up to. | 00:50:49 | |
| Yeah, you you could. And so I mean, it could be a, you know, we could list it as. | 00:50:53 | |
| Amenities for pedestrians. | 00:50:58 | |
| A restaurant, 80 eateries. I mean there we or, you know, structure for variety shade. | 00:51:02 | |
| Yeah, if you want we we we can definitely do that. It is kind of a concern like they try to get like an additional residential or | 00:51:10 | |
| something. | 00:51:13 | |
| I just. | 00:51:16 | |
| You said non resident. | 00:51:17 | |
| Yeah, yeah. | 00:51:19 | |
| Yeah. | 00:51:20 | |
| I. | 00:51:21 | |
| I'm fine again. Flexibility is good. We're planning. | 00:51:22 | |
| A big open space. That's nothing there, right? And we don't know a lot of what's going to happen. | 00:51:26 | |
| Today. | 00:51:32 | |
| So. | 00:51:34 | |
| I'm more than happy to be flexible. | 00:51:34 | |
| I just want to be flexible. | 00:51:37 | |
| What did Ronald Reagan Reagan say? Yeah, yeah. | 00:51:39 | |
| You know. | 00:51:44 | |
| Yeah, I think the ideas are great. OK? | 00:51:47 | |
| And. | 00:51:50 | |
| I do think we're, in some instances we've bound your creativity. | 00:51:50 | |
| And doing this. | 00:51:55 | |
| I'm OK with loosening those. | 00:51:56 | |
| With some. | 00:51:59 | |
| Guarantee the guardrails. OK. Yeah. Thank you. OK. | 00:52:01 | |
| Work on what? | 00:52:05 | |
| Right. | 00:52:07 | |
| All right. | 00:52:09 | |
| They were just sitting on non residential, yeah. | 00:52:12 | |
| Um, OK text Amendment number? | 00:52:16 | |
| 6. | 00:52:20 | |
| Because. | 00:52:21 | |
| Let me just get there on my computer. So this is section 3.10.50. | 00:52:23 | |
| And this has to do This section has to do with building materials and building siding. | 00:52:29 | |
| So the the 1st. | 00:52:35 | |
| Request is right now Architectural metal panel. | 00:52:36 | |
| Is in the secondary material list for architectural exteriors. | 00:52:40 | |
| We'd ask to move it to the primary. | 00:52:45 | |
| Material list, but we think there's a lot of and there's percentages in the code. | 00:52:47 | |
| Of what can be worked but. | 00:52:52 | |
| As architectural metal panels expand and become more versatile, they're becoming a larger component of the exterior facade. | 00:52:54 | |
| So if you look at the next slide cache, this is a. | 00:53:02 | |
| This is the wood looking metal panel facade. | 00:53:05 | |
| And for Nichiha. | 00:53:08 | |
| And you know, you you would think that was wood, but it's actually metal. | 00:53:10 | |
| And so you know, as as metal panels become. | 00:53:14 | |
| In greater use on exterior cladding. | 00:53:19 | |
| We think that it just makes more sense to move that from a secondary. | 00:53:22 | |
| Accent material in the code to a primary. | 00:53:25 | |
| Beyond the primary facade material list. | 00:53:28 | |
| Any questions on that one? | 00:53:32 | |
| OK, um C is the add fiber cement as as optionally available shutter material. If you go 2 slides down cache you'll see. | 00:53:34 | |
| Some examples of fiber cement shutters. | 00:53:43 | |
| And the fiber cement shutters. | 00:53:45 | |
| Are. | 00:53:48 | |
| More durable than more wood looking. | 00:53:49 | |
| There there is requirements in the code that you can't have what we call fault shutters. | 00:53:52 | |
| If we put shutters on the building, they have to actually look like they would work. | 00:53:56 | |
| For the window. | 00:53:59 | |
| So you know they'll still be architecturally true. | 00:54:01 | |
| But we should. | 00:54:04 | |
| We we think that. | 00:54:06 | |
| That that provides some optionality there with a really durable good product. | 00:54:08 | |
| They could match them elevations. | 00:54:12 | |
| Um, subsection 3. | 00:54:16 | |
| Let's see. | 00:54:20 | |
| The This is having to do with exterior balconies. | 00:54:21 | |
| On buildings, removing both the size and the requirement for at least 25%. | 00:54:25 | |
| Of the units. | 00:54:30 | |
| And within those two areas they have balconies. | 00:54:31 | |
| The reason for that is that this is just another one of those conditions that face you were talking about where. | 00:54:34 | |
| We're kind of artificially forcing an architectural condition that. | 00:54:40 | |
| May or may not match with the building style. | 00:54:43 | |
| That's being developed. | 00:54:46 | |
| So you know, as you could see from. | 00:54:48 | |
| Blocks 5:00 and 6:00. | 00:54:51 | |
| We included balconies where we thought they would be really advantageous along the pedestrian corridors and the courtyards. We | 00:54:52 | |
| took them off on the street conditions. | 00:54:57 | |
| Most of the ground floor has a stoop or a porch condition. | 00:55:02 | |
| And so, you know, we're still creating that porous really active. | 00:55:05 | |
| Environment without forcing. | 00:55:09 | |
| A condition with porches where they wouldn't make sense. | 00:55:12 | |
| That's right. | 00:55:19 | |
| OK. On the next one we just this was just a clean up item where? | 00:55:19 | |
| That said, 50% of the small single family dwellings will have porches, but we don't have any small lot single family dwellings. | 00:55:23 | |
| In the master plan so that that was just a clean up item. | 00:55:31 | |
| Subsection 7 has to do with waste containers. | 00:55:34 | |
| Where it says that they'll be located below ground and where we would like to add the. | 00:55:37 | |
| The. | 00:55:43 | |
| Ending to that when feasible, there's a lot of times when below Gray or or underground. | 00:55:44 | |
| Trash facilities and other facilities just aren't feasible, especially with the water table. | 00:55:50 | |
| Um, so where? Where it's not feasible. Then we would revert back to the current code. | 00:55:56 | |
| Which makes sure that the containers are out of public view and the minimum from 10 feet from the property line and screen, with | 00:56:02 | |
| landscaping so still keeping all of those protections on trash and waste. | 00:56:07 | |
| Containment. | 00:56:13 | |
| But recognizing that most of the time the trash containment and collection will be above grade. | 00:56:15 | |
| And we'll need to, you know, look at. | 00:56:22 | |
| Screening it from that standpoint. | 00:56:24 | |
| And for example, in these buildings we just submitted, you'll see there's a trash room, there's a compactor in there, it's covered | 00:56:27 | |
| and ventilated. So it's completely inside the building. And we've got valet trash for the residents there. So they'll go by and | 00:56:32 | |
| pick all their trash up and put it there, but and trash shoots built into the building. So it's, I mean it's all very organized, | 00:56:37 | |
| but it's not underground. | 00:56:41 | |
| Yeah, and and we think. | 00:56:46 | |
| It's for sustainability reasons to keeping it out of the groundwater, yeah. | 00:56:49 | |
| Any questions? Yeah. | 00:56:57 | |
| OK. | 00:56:59 | |
| Subsection 9 has to do with the amenity requirements currently in the. | 00:57:00 | |
| Code, there's a. There's a requirement that amenities are. | 00:57:04 | |
| Completed. There's a list of amenities. | 00:57:08 | |
| In the code with kind of a. | 00:57:10 | |
| A radius saying within a certain radius these amenities. | 00:57:13 | |
| You know a certain number of these amenities must be completed and another. | 00:57:16 | |
| A radius, A larger radius, certain amenities must be completed. This this again just goes back to just adding some flexibility | 00:57:21 | |
| and. | 00:57:25 | |
| The recognition that some of these amenities. | 00:57:30 | |
| In a master plan, large scale master plan are going to be. | 00:57:33 | |
| In other buildings or in other areas that are adjacent. | 00:57:36 | |
| And so. | 00:57:40 | |
| Changing it to say that as long as they're planned. | 00:57:42 | |
| Uh. | 00:57:45 | |
| In an upcoming development phase. | 00:57:46 | |
| And a bond is posted. | 00:57:48 | |
| That. | 00:57:50 | |
| That particular building would still be able to get a certificate of occupancy. | 00:57:51 | |
| If if the particular. | 00:57:56 | |
| Amenities in that one were not met. | 00:57:58 | |
| I guess I just wanna clarify. | 00:58:06 | |
| And I'm. | 00:58:10 | |
| I don't mean to. I don't want to be insensitive when I say this, but sure, I think that. | 00:58:11 | |
| What we're trying to avoid is things like. | 00:58:16 | |
| You know if we, if we believe in amenities coming that it's not going to be extremely delayed like maybe a park or two that we've | 00:58:18 | |
| experienced, right? | 00:58:22 | |
| So, yes, so we so we added in here the the amenity the bond wouldn't be for more than 12 months. | 00:58:26 | |
| And Marian, do you think that's? | 00:58:34 | |
| Alright. | 00:58:36 | |
| That's 12 years before he changed. Yeah, hard, hard to hear. | 00:58:41 | |
| Or they wanted 12 months so they said 12 years and I ohh 12 months. | 00:58:47 | |
| Yeah. | 00:58:50 | |
| And I I think to him Jimmy might be able to speak to this but with with with amenities and and certain. | 00:58:53 | |
| Certain improvements to sites. | 00:58:59 | |
| I believe the state code requires cities to allow for for bonding. | 00:59:02 | |
| And so and so we've dealt with that a lot with open space and landscaping where they bond with winters come in, there might be | 00:59:08 | |
| like certainties like that especially with COVID and all the. | 00:59:12 | |
| And we still have, we still do have you know just just issues with getting material and stuff shipped so. | 00:59:18 | |
| And yeah, we're we're totally comfortable with family. We kind of already practiced that with our development process. | 00:59:26 | |
| Thank you. | 00:59:34 | |
| Any comments, questions? | 00:59:35 | |
| No. | 00:59:38 | |
| Right, so if we can skip down. | 00:59:40 | |
| Through the next set of slides, these are those were just kind of examples on the. | 00:59:43 | |
| Portion Paseo Conditions Section Item number 7. | 00:59:47 | |
| Is fencing. | 00:59:51 | |
| Right now, there there are. | 00:59:52 | |
| There there are areas in the code where they line out different types of open spaces and. | 00:59:56 | |
| Have different fencing restrictions on different types of open spaces. | 01:00:01 | |
| Ohh, what we'd like to do is modify the pension requirements to apply to the existing fencing requirements. | 01:00:06 | |
| Where they can't really be fenced. | 01:00:12 | |
| To the north Promenade of the Lake Promenade in Geneva Park. | 01:00:14 | |
| And but open space is defined by 3.12. | 01:00:18 | |
| 30 and 3.1250. | 01:00:22 | |
| So that those ones in between which are. | 01:00:25 | |
| Um. | 01:00:27 | |
| Courtyards and plazas and paseos. | 01:00:28 | |
| To allow for fencing as part of the development plan. | 01:00:31 | |
| UM, which would be submitted to the city planner. | 01:00:35 | |
| So in other words, some of these. | 01:00:38 | |
| Courtyards, if you go to the the next thanks the next slide, this will illustrate that. So in some of these courtyards they're | 01:00:41 | |
| they're really incorporated into a building, they're interior to a building. | 01:00:47 | |
| And we feel like it's important to be able to provide some security. | 01:00:52 | |
| And some access control to those courtyards. | 01:00:56 | |
| Our thought is to have those courtyards be open to anybody who lives in the community through some sort of controlled access. | 01:00:59 | |
| But to be able to to control that access from, you know, just kind of the the. | 01:01:06 | |
| Maybe, you know people that are on the promenade that came in on the train and they're wandering through and looking at Paseo so | 01:01:13 | |
| that there is some level of security on those interior courtyards. | 01:01:17 | |
| The paseo would stay open. Yeah, so. | 01:01:24 | |
| Yeah. So the paseos, they open and and there's conditions. Again this would be on a on a site plan. | 01:01:27 | |
| Races. | 01:01:32 | |
| But just providing that flexibility to be able to propose it and and in certain areas where we think that it makes sense. | 01:01:34 | |
| For example, in some of these buildings, they're more of a U shape. | 01:01:40 | |
| And the courtyard opens up onto a paseo. | 01:01:43 | |
| And some of those courtyards are gonna be more porous and more, you know, kind of semi public. | 01:01:46 | |
| And so fencing. | 01:01:50 | |
| Part of that might make sense, but all of it might not make sense. | 01:01:52 | |
| On these interior ones, where you're where you're literally like. | 01:01:56 | |
| The courtyard within a building, we think that those make a lot more sense to have more access control. | 01:01:59 | |
| Any questions on those? | 01:02:06 | |
| Ohh yeah. | 01:02:13 | |
| Sorry, just a matter of clarification. We actually changed that from city planner to site plan process. | 01:02:17 | |
| And so it it'll be part of the site plan process of the Planning Commission approves, right? | 01:02:24 | |
| Morgan didn't want that kind of responsibility. | 01:02:30 | |
| Fancy. | 01:02:34 | |
| We know. | 01:02:35 | |
| And then and then in the in the open space, we'd like to propose adding an aquatic. | 01:02:37 | |
| Use as it permitted. Use as subject to site plan review and approval. | 01:02:42 | |
| And in the. | 01:02:47 | |
| In the open space promenade area. | 01:02:48 | |
| Long as we have water, Ohh what is? Can you give us any idea what that means? Yeah, so So the idea would be kind of a resort style | 01:02:54 | |
| swimming pool, Aquatic Center. | 01:02:58 | |
| And we've had some discussions with staff but haven't had a lot with either Planning Commission or staff because. | 01:03:05 | |
| Right now it's not a permitted use, so. | 01:03:11 | |
| Adding it as a permitted use would allow us to we we've been working on some plans that. | 01:03:13 | |
| We think could really add. | 01:03:18 | |
| And. | 01:03:20 | |
| To to the promenade area and really activate that area. | 01:03:21 | |
| And we'd love to have, you know, further discussions on that with some concepts that we have and some ideas on. | 01:03:24 | |
| How do we do that with? | 01:03:30 | |
| The city and the other residents of the city and residents of the downtown area, and how does that all work together? | 01:03:32 | |
| I think there there's a variety of structures there that. | 01:03:38 | |
| We've seen work in in other locations that we can talk through and. | 01:03:41 | |
| And look at that as an option in that open space area. | 01:03:45 | |
| Morgan. | 01:03:49 | |
| Does the site plan review? | 01:03:50 | |
| Process as written here. Just go through the Planning Commission. | 01:03:52 | |
| I I believe so. I I I I can look back at the the administrative I. | 01:03:59 | |
| I understand he's my guess is it will also come through the FDA. So there will be a joint. Yeah. So we'll still see it as a board, | 01:04:04 | |
| but yeah and I well and also anything that that's public open space, our practice is to bring it to the City Council because | 01:04:10 | |
| you're the board over anything that that's public. And so it'll it'll go to you kind of for your preliminary approval and then it | 01:04:16 | |
| goes for the like the official plan, but you'd be able to change it then. Alright. | 01:04:21 | |
| Yeah. Any questions or comments on that? | 01:04:28 | |
| That's good. OK, Section 8, item number 8 deals with temporary. | 01:04:32 | |
| Uses. | 01:04:37 | |
| And and the the temporary uses didn't specifically. I mean temporary parking probably would have fit in temporary uses but instead | 01:04:38 | |
| of trying to shoehorn it in we. | 01:04:43 | |
| Decided to be better just to line it out so that we can talk about what the city is comfortable with and what works from a | 01:04:49 | |
| development standpoint. | 01:04:52 | |
| So the the. | 01:04:56 | |
| Request here, kind of midway down is. | 01:04:58 | |
| For temporary parking lots. | 01:05:01 | |
| Um. | 01:05:03 | |
| The applicant or developer would not be required to submit a parking lot landscape plan. | 01:05:04 | |
| That it's that's in compliance with this section and this section is. | 01:05:10 | |
| The current city code. | 01:05:13 | |
| For this area, that has to do with permanent parking lots. | 01:05:15 | |
| Rather, temporary parking lots would be submitted on a simplified temporary landscaping plan. | 01:05:18 | |
| Showing proposed landscape locations. | 01:05:24 | |
| And buffering for approval by the city planner. | 01:05:27 | |
| And and then the temporary parking lot. | 01:05:30 | |
| Would need to be removed and developed and the additionally developed property would need to conform. | 01:05:32 | |
| To those permanent requirements within seven years of a CEO for the building that's asking for the temporary parking lot. | 01:05:39 | |
| And service. | 01:05:46 | |
| Seven years. | 01:05:49 | |
| Because the the idea was. | 01:05:50 | |
| Building. | 01:05:52 | |
| You know, surface parking. I mean, some places are gonna come in with structure parking right away, but places like this. | 01:05:53 | |
| Like the block five or six that are pushed kind of further back away from the train station and it was to phase it in and as they | 01:05:58 | |
| come in to do the infill development, build out the site, then they would convert that either to either to a structure parking or | 01:06:03 | |
| or to to a building. | 01:06:08 | |
| And. | 01:06:14 | |
| And so one thing that Planning Commission talked about in their work session and their last meeting was that if they do that, if | 01:06:15 | |
| the parking lot is to remain surface, so if it doesn't get upgraded to I think we. | 01:06:21 | |
| From the actual code, the ordinance I I put a few things like if it's a building, a parking structure or open space. So that's | 01:06:27 | |
| always a benefit. So if it's not one of those three things, if it stays as a surface parking lot, then there will be a requirement | 01:06:33 | |
| to meet the code plus 25%. | 01:06:38 | |
| Of of what the code is so that yeah no no, no, no, no bigger so. | 01:06:45 | |
| You can speak right, right. Ohh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so and so it it it so it kind of in a way it's. | 01:06:51 | |
| Like the the city benefits by getting even more landscape landscape than they would have got. And it kind of. | 01:06:59 | |
| And our punishment? Yeah, that penalizes them for for waiting too long and and for keeping it surface parking lot. | 01:07:05 | |
| Because we, I mean, I think it's everyone's best interest to not have a lot of surface parking, so. | 01:07:11 | |
| So what was the rationale for seven years? | 01:07:17 | |
| Buildings on top of those are next to etcetera. So it's just it's just so that we're not. | 01:07:51 | |
| Putting a bunch of money in that were tearing all out to redo something here in the next little while. | 01:07:56 | |
| But it's still, I mean for our, for us since we're going to be leasing these units and selling these units now. | 01:08:00 | |
| It's it's not going to look like Utah's parking lot out here. I mean no offense to them and they're great. They're great people. | 01:08:05 | |
| But but we're, I mean it's still going to have to be from our perspective a livable area and and so it's not just going to be. | 01:08:12 | |
| It's it's still gonna have some landscaping, it's just not quite to this to the level of the long term plan for the whole site. | 01:08:19 | |
| Hmm. | 01:08:26 | |
| And the idea behind the 20%, like Morgan was saying, I think, I think there was a comment by Anthony Van, I can't remember. | 01:08:27 | |
| Who brought it up during the working session is. | 01:08:33 | |
| If we wait 7-7 years and then. | 01:08:35 | |
| You put in code then. | 01:08:37 | |
| We would have had more growth. | 01:08:39 | |
| During those seven years, had you done it initially? | 01:08:42 | |
| And so. | 01:08:45 | |
| If we if we add 25% more to the landscaping requirements at that point, then we're kind of getting where we should have been. | 01:08:46 | |
| Had that growth been able to come in? | 01:08:53 | |
| Baby trees. | 01:08:58 | |
| Any comments or questions on that? | 01:09:01 | |
| OK. | 01:09:04 | |
| The next one is is text #9, which is tree branch height. | 01:09:07 | |
| This is this is just a clarification or or actually a change. | 01:09:12 | |
| On the minimum, clear branch height as as it applies to the code. | 01:09:17 | |
| So our. | 01:09:22 | |
| Our request is that we remove them the clear branch height. | 01:09:24 | |
| When it's. | 01:09:29 | |
| Used for privacy screening adjacent to buildings. | 01:09:30 | |
| So where we have. | 01:09:33 | |
| Windows and large windows along pedestrian corridors. | 01:09:34 | |
| And you know, a lot of times we like to to put kind of a more columnar or bushy. | 01:09:38 | |
| Plant in front of those windows to provide some privacy screening. | 01:09:44 | |
| The the code right now requires a. | 01:09:47 | |
| Clear branch right there would make us limp those trees up and basically expose that window. | 01:09:50 | |
| Well, a lot of that too is like at the end of a public St. for example, you have Windows. | 01:09:55 | |
| And if you don't put something there, a tree for example. | 01:10:00 | |
| The headlights. Headlights shine right into their units, so you'll always want to put something there so that you know, like at | 01:10:05 | |
| the end of the square about, for example. | 01:10:08 | |
| Whatever's on the other side of that, they're not going to want headlights just shining in their. | 01:10:13 | |
| Non-stop. | 01:10:16 | |
| Very limited times we'll be using this, but. | 01:10:18 | |
| It's important when it's informant. | 01:10:21 | |
| Any questions on that one? | 01:10:25 | |
| Um. | 01:10:27 | |
| I would prefer a warning. | 01:10:29 | |
| Where? | 01:10:33 | |
| Rather than taking Thank you. | 01:10:34 | |
| Rather than taking away. | 01:10:38 | |
| The purpose of that? | 01:10:40 | |
| Was that we implement. | 01:10:43 | |
| When? | 01:10:45 | |
| Trees or bushes are used for screening. | 01:10:46 | |
| There is an exception. | 01:10:51 | |
| So I I think that's, I mean that's what we try to do here is that we say minimum clearance height applies to trees. | 01:10:53 | |
| Not used for privacy screening adjacent to buildings, so so it's kind of a double negative but. | 01:11:00 | |
| 100. | 01:11:09 | |
| So it's the trees along a walkway. We would still be lined up. And that's the idea. You're not smacking your head on it. And then | 01:11:13 | |
| you're parks and yeah, yeah, yeah, the screening stuff, right, next windows and. | 01:11:18 | |
| Portraits. OK, good. | 01:11:24 | |
| Any other comments online? | 01:11:28 | |
| 10 is a a parking study. | 01:11:31 | |
| So when we. | 01:11:33 | |
| When we were going through the downtown code. | 01:11:36 | |
| And looking at how to handle parking. | 01:11:39 | |
| And there were. There was. | 01:11:42 | |
| A lot of discussion about. | 01:11:43 | |
| What parking was appropriate? How much parking would be appropriate in the future? | 01:11:45 | |
| What types of uses would would be there in the future and how to accommodate for those? | 01:11:50 | |
| The. | 01:11:55 | |
| The conclusion was that. | 01:11:56 | |
| There would be an option for either the city or the developer. | 01:11:58 | |
| To do a parking study, to reevaluate that parking at certain milestones in the future as the project built out. | 01:12:02 | |
| And and then that study. | 01:12:10 | |
| Would Uh. | 01:12:13 | |
| Then inform the city planner and city engineer. | 01:12:15 | |
| On the ability to change the parking. | 01:12:18 | |
| And requirements in the code. | 01:12:21 | |
| What we'd like to change it to is more of an objective standard. | 01:12:23 | |
| To where we have a qualified. | 01:12:26 | |
| Expert and and traffic engineer. | 01:12:29 | |
| Who would do those same? Do that study at those same milestones optionally. | 01:12:32 | |
| Either the city or the. | 01:12:37 | |
| Developer could ask for that study to be done. | 01:12:39 | |
| And we would. | 01:12:41 | |
| We would recommend 3 qualified traffic engineers. The city would pick one. | 01:12:43 | |
| And the conclusions of that study would then become. | 01:12:49 | |
| The table the parking table for the code. | 01:12:52 | |
| And so that it would be an objective standard instead of. | 01:12:55 | |
| A subjective standard. | 01:12:58 | |
| Or cause the the way the code currently reads is we do this study and then Morgan basically whatever Morgan decides goes. So if | 01:13:00 | |
| Morgan comes back and says you know what this study says you need. | 01:13:05 | |
| More parking, but I don't like parking, so I'm just going to say there's no parking required. | 01:13:10 | |
| The way the current code is written is that's the way it would work. | 01:13:15 | |
| So we just thought having. | 01:13:18 | |
| With and we've dealt with this in other cities where you go spend 150,000 on a parking study that's one of the best you know and | 01:13:20 | |
| they study all this stuff and then they take it and. | 01:13:24 | |
| It's like well. | 01:13:28 | |
| You know, I don't know about this or that. You couldn't do fences, so we couldn't depart. Yeah, that is, Yeah. As long as as | 01:13:30 | |
| Morgan's here, I think we're comfortable. It's just what's gonna happen. And you know, 10 years of Morgan's the governor by, | 01:13:34 | |
| Morgan's the governor by then and cash is the Lieutenant governor by then. And we don't know who we're dealing with. So this is | 01:13:39 | |
| just something for the future to. | 01:13:44 | |
| Have something objective in the code that knows what we can fall back on. | 01:13:49 | |
| And. | 01:13:54 | |
| Like playing devil's advocate. | 01:13:56 | |
| You know what? If we genuinely don't like the study, I like having a little bit of flexibility. | 01:13:58 | |
| You know what I mean? I what? What wouldn't you like about this study? Well, I mean. | 01:14:04 | |
| As you know, parking is a huge issue here in menu. We have a lot of concerned citizens. I had a citizen call me today or yesterday | 01:14:09 | |
| with concerns about what our, our, what our minimum requirements are on this. | 01:14:15 | |
| And I just. | 01:14:21 | |
| I I'm really cautious anytime we're talking about parking and honestly Morgan, I would love for you to explain. | 01:14:23 | |
| Maybe a little bit of. | 01:14:30 | |
| Of how? | 01:14:32 | |
| Perkins plan to work with even with this chart below. | 01:14:33 | |
| Umm. | 01:14:38 | |
| Yeah. Thank you. | 01:14:40 | |
| The so there's this was one of those and this is actually a very unique requirement that we put in place a a few years ago 2020. | 01:14:42 | |
| And what what I really love about about this the standard. | 01:14:51 | |
| Is that it's it's like a legitimate way of right sizing the parking because the city we don't want. | 01:14:54 | |
| Way more parking than than what's needed because from an economic development standpoint we're losing potentially on you know | 01:14:59 | |
| offices and and and you know just open space and that kind of stuff and and parking spaces are very expensive. So the developers | 01:15:06 | |
| also don't want to build more structure parking to do think 12 to $20,000 per per parking stall. I mean it can be very expensive. | 01:15:13 | |
| And so this is a a very unique compromise and I actually haven't seen this in any other city. So as it builds out what it provides | 01:15:20 | |
| is as we hit 500 units which we will for those first two Billings. | 01:15:25 | |
| Getting a a a parking consultant that can analyze real world conditions right on the site and say OK what is the actual parking | 01:15:31 | |
| need and and they they would do an in depth analysis that the engineering planner from the staff side would would review and then | 01:15:37 | |
| it has other thresholds 1500. So then it provides kind of another 1000 units to come on board. Then we study it again and then if | 01:15:43 | |
| we need to reduce or increase depending on the parking study it allows us to the right size the parking requirements all the way | 01:15:49 | |
| up to. | 01:15:55 | |
| 5000 units. | 01:16:01 | |
| And so it's actually a a really great ordinance and I. | 01:16:02 | |
| You know unfortunately we we don't have that in place for some of the others, but I I think this would if this was in place, I | 01:16:06 | |
| want to resolve a lot of those those issues that we're having now. | 01:16:11 | |
| Well, the one thing, so to kind of to to your point ohh and and also I apologize. | 01:16:17 | |
| Get dividends to the city in the future. | 01:16:53 | |
| And so for kind of from that aspect, it helps the transit obviously helps the mixing of uses because you're able to capture. | 01:16:56 | |
| Trip. So if someone lives there they they can they can walk to, you know if there's a theater or entertainment they have a job | 01:17:03 | |
| there, retail, grocery store. So it provides a lot of those options. Someone driving there is able to to drive once park and | 01:17:09 | |
| they're able to hit many uses And so that's kind of like like like capturing trips instead of having to drive to you know to | 01:17:14 | |
| Smiths. | 01:17:19 | |
| And then you drive to the school, and then you drive to, you know, go. | 01:17:25 | |
| Get coffee with your friends. You're able to to park once and do a lot of that, and so because of the overall design makes the | 01:17:30 | |
| uses, it helps to reduce the overall parking requirement. | 01:17:35 | |
| And and kind of kind of you to your point too if the city doesn't agree with it, one thing that that you could put in here and I'd | 01:17:41 | |
| like to hear kind of what name he think of us too is. | 01:17:46 | |
| I I wouldn't necessarily want to want to put the the responsibility specifically on the the city planner and the city engineer to | 01:17:53 | |
| say we we disagree with this. You know you need to have X number of spaces per per unit. 1 way to resolve that is allowing the | 01:17:59 | |
| city to Commission someone else to to review that parking study. | 01:18:06 | |
| And I I I think that's something that you could easily build in because then you're having 2 qualified professionals. | 01:18:13 | |
| You know you you get your study done and then if the city disagrees with it this city planner city engineer review and they go, we | 01:18:19 | |
| just think it's. | 01:18:23 | |
| You know, they're like there's some flaws in that. We could Commission someone to to to review that. | 01:18:27 | |
| You know that that might be a possibility. I'd like to hear you. | 01:18:35 | |
| And additionally, just to add to that, I think one thing to. | 01:18:39 | |
| Recognize what this is that. | 01:18:43 | |
| Whatever the speed table is, that's the minimum required parking. And so if the city decided. | 01:18:45 | |
| You know what? We don't like the study. We want more parking. | 01:18:50 | |
| Then the city is more than welcome to contribute. The residents can all agree, hey, we're going to contribute additional tax | 01:18:53 | |
| resources to increasing the parking in that area. We can fund another level of a parking structure, however, however you see fit. | 01:19:00 | |
| I like the idea of having flexibility in the sense that. | 01:19:09 | |
| I'm sure whoever we hire. | 01:19:14 | |
| Would be great, but I have seen studies come out, be it traffic studies or parking studies, where people disagree with the | 01:19:17 | |
| results. | 01:19:20 | |
| And so I don't want to be tied down to one study if it comes back and it just doesn't seem to reflect what the needs are. | 01:19:23 | |
| From my from the public's perspective, Even so, I don't. | 01:19:30 | |
| I just want to be able to protect the city. | 01:19:34 | |
| If something comes out. | 01:19:38 | |
| I don't want to just be tied down. | 01:19:40 | |
| So yeah, and I think. | 01:19:42 | |
| Like, if this was the City Council that we were dealing with and this was the staff we were dealing with in the future, I think | 01:19:45 | |
| we'd be like, yeah, sure, we can agree that I think the concern with the way it's written now. | 01:19:49 | |
| And just not know it like. | 01:19:54 | |
| Not knowing what the future, who you're dealing with in the future where the Council is not reasonable and they say. | 01:19:57 | |
| Don't we want 10,000 parking stalls per unit in here? | 01:20:04 | |
| What you say, you say ohh well. | 01:20:08 | |
| That's not what any study anywhere says or anyone recommends. And that's not, and that's millions of dollars, but that's that's | 01:20:10 | |
| what you get a few people in the future to say. I think that's kind of more of the concern. | 01:20:15 | |
| I think also one thing that this really does. | 01:20:21 | |
| And somebody pointed this out, I think it was on council, councillors, Planning Commission, that the places you have problems in | 01:20:24 | |
| the city right now. | 01:20:28 | |
| Are parking areas that are not professionally managed? | 01:20:32 | |
| And I think what this does is this really makes it critical to us to get parking right. | 01:20:34 | |
| To make sure that we're not, that we are building ample parking because. | 01:20:40 | |
| The biggest, the biggest risk that we'll have in the future on this project is we're gonna own a lot of this, most of this. | 01:20:44 | |
| And if parking doesn't work, no one's gonna want to live there. It's gonna be a nightmare for everyone to go in and out of that. | 01:20:50 | |
| So we have, I mean. | 01:20:53 | |
| Getting parking right will be no more important for anyone than ourselves. | 01:20:56 | |
| Because a lot of the other areas too, that you're seeing problems with parking, it's where people have just sold everything and | 01:21:00 | |
| left. | 01:21:03 | |
| And I and I think. | 01:21:07 | |
| I think that this. | 01:21:08 | |
| Helps us in the future where like right now we're all just kind of saying we think it's this, but in the future when there's. | 01:21:10 | |
| You know, we're talking about doing buying a bunch of like. | 01:21:16 | |
| Two or three hundred cars that people share, they live in the community. They can just use it anytime. | 01:21:19 | |
| Because, like you use your car about 5% of the time. | 01:21:23 | |
| And so if we can, if we can, use that more proactively in the community. | 01:21:27 | |
| Like, there's a lot of these things that are going to be happening with automated cars in the future, and we just don't want to. | 01:21:31 | |
| We don't want to commit hundreds of millions of dollars of parking because that's the problem with this is it's not just surface | 01:21:36 | |
| park sales. You're going to be building all these structures that the FDA actually has reimbursing. So it's good for both of us to | 01:21:40 | |
| make sure we get it right and I think. | 01:21:45 | |
| I think the way this is written it makes it very objective. | 01:21:49 | |
| Now maybe there's a 10% something there that. | 01:21:53 | |
| But you know, if the study comes back and you disagree by 10%, up or down. | 01:21:55 | |
| Then, you know, I think maybe we'd be open to, we can adjust that, like if it says you need 1000 stalls and you're like, no, we | 01:22:00 | |
| need 1100 stalls. | 01:22:04 | |
| You know, but I think the concern is if we get a study back and Morgan just says. | 01:22:08 | |
| No. | 01:22:12 | |
| I don't want 10 times that amount of parking. | 01:22:13 | |
| Or I want no parking. | 01:22:16 | |
| I mean right now. | 01:22:18 | |
| So we're like cream build these buildings and we're gonna just. | 01:22:19 | |
| What do you think you know? | 01:22:22 | |
| Um. | 01:22:23 | |
| I think that's why we we like this more objective standard. | 01:22:24 | |
| And I think I would be comfortable if we added in some kind of leniency with. | 01:22:28 | |
| You know, 15%. | 01:22:33 | |
| Something to that extent because I. | 01:22:35 | |
| I just. | 01:22:38 | |
| I feel like you explained it well. I think it's it's a fair concern because you don't know who you will be working with. | 01:22:40 | |
| But I also think it's a fair concern that there might be things happening within the city that we want to try to. | 01:22:45 | |
| Sex. And I don't want to have my hands tied. Yeah. And I. And it's not just who we're working with, it's what the conditions are | 01:22:51 | |
| at the time, I mean. | 01:22:54 | |
| 10 years ago. There's a lot of things happening now that you couldn't have imagined 10 years ago. | 01:22:59 | |
| And 10 years from now there's gonna be things that. | 01:23:04 | |
| We don't foresee right now and so. | 01:23:06 | |
| You know, we we want to be able to make sure that we're objective, but then at the same time. | 01:23:09 | |
| I understand the concern of. | 01:23:13 | |
| Hey, we we've seen studies by consultants in the past that. | 01:23:15 | |
| The developer hired and they were really one sided. | 01:23:18 | |
| That's why we were saying, look, we'll, we'll provide. | 01:23:21 | |
| You know 3 or 4 qualified individuals and you pick. | 01:23:23 | |
| The expert that you want to do the study, and we'll both live by the conclusions. Morgan, were you suggesting that in the current | 01:23:28 | |
| code how it's written to be changed? That instead of having it be to assist you to review it? | 01:23:33 | |
| That you would have another consultant review it. So it'd be 1 consultant that we picked that they paid for the study and then | 01:23:40 | |
| another consultant to tag team with them. | 01:23:45 | |
| And I mean this provides more and more expertise than it maybe it provides just more like a sense of kind of security to the city | 01:24:21 | |
| that that they have more eyeballs on it, OK. And then how did they come to a decision? | 01:24:27 | |
| Rock paper scissors. | 01:24:33 | |
| So. | 01:24:36 | |
| Come up with an idea and they work together. And you guys felt comfortable with that kind of a plan? Yeah. I mean, so I think | 01:24:38 | |
| we're gonna just kind of brainstorming here. We we don't really talk about that part of it. But I mean, we we'd be OK with that. | 01:24:43 | |
| We're just trying to get to something objective. | 01:24:47 | |
| That everybody's comfortable with with these future conditions, I think. | 01:24:53 | |
| I'm sorry to interrupt you. I kind of feel like that gives you the leeway that you're talking about where you're saying, hey, | 01:24:57 | |
| we're having struggles on this side, we'll go ahead and bring in our own expert and we come to the middle ground. Gotcha. Why | 01:25:02 | |
| don't we reverse it where the city picks the three and then the developer selects from that list. | 01:25:07 | |
| Or maybe we three decide now we pick some of the best parking consultants in the world. I think the concern there is I think | 01:25:14 | |
| you're talking about a horizon that's. | 01:25:18 | |
| You know you're looking at. | 01:25:22 | |
| Maybe doing these studies once city personnel changes. | 01:25:24 | |
| You're gonna have. | 01:25:28 | |
| A different group of. | 01:25:29 | |
| Parking experts in the state to draw from. | 01:25:31 | |
| What I find interesting about this too is so there's this conversation that's say we pick them, say they come up with a study. | 01:25:37 | |
| And then we have to adhere to that study according to how the code is written. | 01:25:44 | |
| Where this other one that Morgan suggested is that say they picked somebody and then we wanted somebody and it's two people going | 01:25:51 | |
| together to make a compromise. | 01:25:55 | |
| I feel like. | 01:25:59 | |
| I don't know which one gives you more comfort. One has two consultants and one you get to pick your consultant from the beginning. | 01:26:00 | |
| So I like the idea of. | 01:26:03 | |
| We pick one and you pick one and then maybe they work together. | 01:26:07 | |
| I don't know. | 01:26:11 | |
| And then I don't know I that doesn't call me skeptical because I I, you know my world is dispute resolution and. | 01:26:11 | |
| What? | 01:26:20 | |
| Well, that's well, that's why if I want a lot of parking, I'm gonna hire the guy from Houston, and if I don't want much, I'm gonna | 01:26:21 | |
| go to Portland. | 01:26:24 | |
| So. | 01:26:29 | |
| I I think we ought to have. | 01:26:30 | |
| I don't, I think. | 01:26:34 | |
| I guess what I'm saying is, in my view, it's impractical to have two. | 01:26:37 | |
| Experts work together. | 01:26:41 | |
| What if we take them? They're experts because you want their judgment. | 01:26:43 | |
| And. | 01:26:47 | |
| They are going to reach different conclusions that. | 01:26:48 | |
| They will. | 01:26:51 | |
| Jamie, what if we pick them together as a compromise? If we can't come to the table, is there a way that? | 01:26:52 | |
| The our City Council and the developing partner and we pick them together and we agree on the consultant. Yeah. And I think, well, | 01:26:57 | |
| there's two things to consider. One is who's the consultant? | 01:27:01 | |
| And the other is what criteria are you giving them to do their parking? | 01:27:06 | |
| Study. So we need to add that as we determine the scope together and the criteria. | 01:27:10 | |
| In this, yeah, I would. I mean, I. | 01:27:17 | |
| Yeah, we pick them now and we can decide like I just think. | 01:27:20 | |
| Right. There's been there's parking consultants event like big firms have been around for a long time and taking them now and | 01:27:23 | |
| agreeing on that I just the concern is like you said. | 01:27:27 | |
| The other thing is we're both incentivized by hundreds of millions of dollars to make sure we do this right because the city right | 01:27:32 | |
| now to pay for all this money. | 01:27:35 | |
| So. | 01:27:39 | |
| What do you guys think about adding wording that said, we will determine the criterion scope together and then we'll agree on the | 01:27:40 | |
| consultant together between our two teams? | 01:27:45 | |
| I think, yeah. | 01:27:50 | |
| And and then there's no then there, then we both agreed on the console. So whatever they say is the is the determination. | 01:27:52 | |
| Say that again. So we would pick the consultant together, we would determine the criteria in the scope together, and then we would | 01:28:00 | |
| accept the results. | 01:28:04 | |
| Like you would do if you went into a study together and you've all joined in together. | 01:28:09 | |
| So and then just on the. | 01:28:14 | |
| Who's on the list? And I understand Jamie's concern like you, you put, you know, you codify a consultant. | 01:28:16 | |
| In here on the approved list, and then they're not around in five years. | 01:28:24 | |
| And. | 01:28:28 | |
| Could we? | 01:28:29 | |
| Put three of them in there now and then. | 01:28:31 | |
| Yeah, put language in there that. | 01:28:34 | |
| One of one or more of those are no longer. | 01:28:35 | |
| Yeah, out of business. Are we picking her study? | 01:28:39 | |
| Tonight, yeah. | 01:28:42 | |
| Can you you could put that in your solicitation like the city and you guys together can write a solicitation of what you want? | 01:28:43 | |
| And you could. You could. | 01:28:51 | |
| Have it limited to three, but you could also. | 01:28:52 | |
| Open it up on the cities thing and say any parking expert that wants to participate in. | 01:28:55 | |
| And put together a proposal on this, they could, I guess, right? | 01:29:01 | |
| Unless there's a reason you want to limit other than no, just for just from. I mean it's quicker. Yeah. Yeah, I mean yeah, right. | 01:29:04 | |
| I mean then you don't have 100 you have going three guess. Alright P process right. | 01:29:10 | |
| I just. I don't know if we need to take more time on this. I just don't. I wanna get it right. I don't wanna just feel like we're | 01:29:17 | |
| having to rush for a decision right this second. | 01:29:21 | |
| You mean we're talking this is in the future? | 01:29:26 | |
| I just. | 01:29:30 | |
| It's a big deal, in my opinion. We're talking about millions of dollars. We're talking about working well together and we're | 01:29:31 | |
| talking about like you said. | 01:29:35 | |
| We're going to get these consultants from and how it's going to pan out. I just. | 01:29:38 | |
| I just don't. I'm not in any rush to make a decision without feeling comfortable about it. So I think we're going to have to carry | 01:29:43 | |
| on this conversation into our City Council meeting and we'll go back to that comment now. And we'll just reserve this comment for | 01:29:48 | |
| the public. We have to get to another meeting and we only have our Planning Commission for a select amount of time. | 01:29:53 | |
| Working studies, OK. | 01:30:29 | |
| Well, in this. | 01:30:31 | |
| This will go into the Planning Commission in a minute and then it'll come into the council. So we can even have that conversation. | 01:30:32 | |
| OK, let's just make sure that like more Planning Commission gets through the meeting. | 01:30:37 | |
| Alright. | 01:30:44 | |
| I hope you all know that I've been calling for public comment this entire time, but if you haven't, if there are any comments, | 01:30:46 | |
| please come to the podium, State your name and. | 01:30:50 | |
| Make your comments down. | 01:30:56 | |
| It's probably hard when I'm like looking at the audience, looking at the Planning Commission, calling out the council, apologize, | 01:31:03 | |
| I thought you were just asking the the Commission, so thank you for this opportunity, Daria Evans. | 01:31:09 | |
| Resident of Vineyard, I just have a couple questions. | 01:31:16 | |
| About. | 01:31:20 | |
| These two amendments ohh thank you Mr. Hansey for. | 01:31:22 | |
| Emailing me the proposals ahead of time. I appreciate that. I really liked reading it. | 01:31:25 | |
| And. | 01:31:30 | |
| The start with the the 88AUS. | 01:31:34 | |
| Ohh, that's not open yet. OK, OK. | 01:31:39 | |
| Then I'll just go to what we've been talking. | 01:31:42 | |
| But I've been listening to here. | 01:31:44 | |
| It talked about the tower heights. It says the heights are unlimited. | 01:31:45 | |
| What does that mean? How tall are they going to be? | 01:31:50 | |
| From my understanding you guys on that. | 01:31:55 | |
| So you may want to just stand up and answer some of these questions if you want to. | 01:31:57 | |
| Excuse me, sorry. So Pete Evans, so we we haven't designed. | 01:32:02 | |
| Most of the buildings in the. | 01:32:07 | |
| In the. | 01:32:09 | |
| Town Center area. The two that we're getting ready to submit are four stories, but there will be taller buildings. | 01:32:10 | |
| OK, but. | 01:32:16 | |
| Like you said, the Skype. I mean, there's an IMAX. No, there there there. There's no maximum height in the downtown center area. | 01:32:17 | |
| Like it could be 100, could be 100 stories tall. | 01:32:22 | |
| OK. When we're going through the paths, we're not going to see the lake at all. | 01:32:28 | |
| Well. | 01:32:32 | |
| I mean the building. | 01:32:33 | |
| It'll be a tower, so it won't block the entire lake. | 01:32:34 | |
| Well, OK. | 01:32:37 | |
| But but that is a good question and it's not something that's being determined in tonight's discussion. But there is no Max | 01:32:39 | |
| height. Yeah figure. | 01:32:43 | |
| It talks about having EV stations. | 01:32:49 | |
| Who is going to operate and maintain those electrical charging stations? | 01:32:52 | |
| Hmm. | 01:32:58 | |
| For vehicles. | 01:32:59 | |
| Yeah, it depends. I mean the city is is looking at adding some EV stations. We looked at at grants, we know there's a lot of | 01:33:03 | |
| interest in that. So we we thought about kind of that low hanging fruit, possibly trying to get some here. | 01:33:09 | |
| And then as as a downtown takes off, if it's if it's in the street of public St. most likely it would be like that the city would | 01:33:15 | |
| would oversee it if it's on private property. | 01:33:21 | |
| Then it would be the the private developer. We we, we have them now in the lakefront at the Town Center. So that's the HOA that | 01:33:26 | |
| manages theirs, that's in their parking lot. And then Divine has I believe too and they their apartment management group manages | 01:33:32 | |
| theirs. OK, so then So what you're saying is the city will not operate and maintain them. They will be taken over by private | 01:33:38 | |
| entities. | 01:33:44 | |
| Am I am I saying that correctly? It it depends if it's in the the public right of way or if it's on if it's in the private | 01:33:51 | |
| development so. | 01:33:55 | |
| Public right away, being in like a city street, then most likely. I mean this isn't things that have been absolutely determined. | 01:33:59 | |
| The city would need to like flush out those exact details, but typically if it's in the public right of way then it would be city | 01:34:04 | |
| infrastructure the city would maintain if it's in like a private parking lot or or a garage and it would be maintained by the, you | 01:34:09 | |
| know, the the developer. | 01:34:14 | |
| If it's on the public right away. | 01:34:21 | |
| Who's going to pay for that charging for that vehicle? Is the city gonna pay for it if I'm gonna be paying for someone else's | 01:34:23 | |
| beautiful? | 01:34:26 | |
| Typically they they they have advisors like a credit card there's something it's a you you'd you'd pull up and then you you'd pay | 01:34:31 | |
| for the you know whatever the rate. And we we've we've interviewed a couple companies that that do it and they have different | 01:34:37 | |
| different ways of doing it. So the city is able to basically set what what that rate is. | 01:34:44 | |
| Yeah, I have an idea really quick. Can somebody go back to all of the amendments? There was an executive list of amendments. | 01:34:50 | |
| Did you have an executive list of them amendments? It was the first slide. | 01:34:59 | |
| It had all of the different changes. | 01:35:06 | |
| I was just the users. Well, what what I was thinking is due to the timing for the Planning Commission to get through these things, | 01:35:10 | |
| if you wanted to talk about any of the changes in the amendments that we talked about. | 01:35:16 | |
| During this portion, we can answer those questions and then if you have additional questions about the Town Center, we'll take | 01:35:22 | |
| them during our council meeting. And so we'll divide your comments up just to get through this small portion. Can we do that? | 01:35:29 | |
| Ohh OK, OK. | 01:35:35 | |
| Unless you have any questions about what's going to be decided on the amendments. | 01:35:38 | |
| Just about the facade. | 01:35:44 | |
| The suits and things that that would be right now, yes. | 01:35:45 | |
| Some of these things don't look very ADA compliant. | 01:35:50 | |
| OK. Yeah. | 01:35:54 | |
| You know. | 01:35:56 | |
| I think it's great. Everything wants to be walkable, but there are people in the community that I live in. | 01:35:57 | |
| That if there isn't a handicapped parking space, they won't be able to access any of these amenities. | 01:36:04 | |
| I know people that cannot access the Riverwoods because. | 01:36:11 | |
| The parking is so far away. | 01:36:14 | |
| That they can't get to the bit, the venue. | 01:36:16 | |
| They just are very limited and I just. | 01:36:20 | |
| I can't see it being a vibrant community for people who are. | 01:36:24 | |
| Older. | 01:36:28 | |
| And I don't know what your your total vision is for. | 01:36:29 | |
| Vineyard. | 01:36:33 | |
| I don't know if it's really family oriented or if it's just urban professional. | 01:36:34 | |
| But the way that this is going. | 01:36:39 | |
| And. | 01:36:40 | |
| I've just. | 01:36:42 | |
| Kind of concerned because. | 01:36:43 | |
| I wanted to be more of a family oriented. | 01:36:45 | |
| And. | 01:36:47 | |
| That's just my thought on that and. | 01:36:49 | |
| Walk five and six. How many? | 01:36:53 | |
| Townhomes, are you wanting to put in? Can you give me a number if there are any townhomes? | 01:36:56 | |
| Well, that's what. | 01:37:03 | |
| When you were doing that with that thoughts one and two, then yeah, that was an example. He come to the microphone, please. | 01:37:04 | |
| Call. | 01:37:11 | |
| So, so blacks five and six don't include any single family townhomes they do include. | 01:37:13 | |
| Attached like apartment style units. OK, how many units and I think we're. | 01:37:18 | |
| Four or four, 54150, OK and then? | 01:37:24 | |
| When there was talking about. | 01:37:28 | |
| The parking? Hmm, it's that crossed out or two 3000 and it said And 5000. | 01:37:30 | |
| So you're adding 2000 more. Well, we're just adding another milestone at which the parking could be reevaluated. | 01:37:38 | |
| So you're not we're we're not adding additional. | 01:37:45 | |
| No, there's there's no additional units added to the project. We just. | 01:37:49 | |
| Added another level of milestone where the parking could be reevaluated. OK, and so. | 01:37:53 | |
| Boy, I was reading it sounded like you were adding. Yeah. Yeah. No, the only thing we've done tonight with any of these things | 01:37:59 | |
| here is reduce density in areas that has more density than than is currently existing. We're giving us the optionality to that. | 01:38:05 | |
| None of these, none of these, none of these here that we've come to talk. That was all done like the height, etcetera. That was | 01:38:11 | |
| all done years ago. And that's just right by the train station itself. That's not the whole time. So it's not like. | 01:38:17 | |
| You're gonna have. | 01:38:24 | |
| Ten story buildings everywhere down there and then just real quick on the accessibility, because that is important. | 01:38:25 | |
| I mean, what what we've shown today is a lot of stoop and porch conditions. | 01:38:32 | |
| Those units have. | 01:38:36 | |
| Have accessibility from the back. | 01:38:38 | |
| So, so those units even though they they are front loaded, they're also rear loaded on an on a threshold entryway. So all of the | 01:38:40 | |
| buildings that we're designing are meet the fair housing requirements for accessibility. Thank you very much. I just say one last | 01:38:46 | |
| thing, one thing you said too is. | 01:38:52 | |
| We want this downtown area to be a place for everyone. | 01:38:59 | |
| We want it to be a place for everyone, no matter their socioeconomic status, no matter their age, no matter their race or gender. | 01:39:02 | |
| We think this place downtown can be a really incredible place and needs to be designed with everybody in mind. | 01:39:08 | |
| We're not designing this saying ohh we want this type of attendant we want. | 01:39:14 | |
| We want everyone to be down there. We want. | 01:39:19 | |
| Young people like yourself and. | 01:39:22 | |
| People like myself there as well, OK? | 01:39:24 | |
| Alright, well, thank you. Thank you. | 01:39:27 | |
| OK. | 01:39:29 | |
| And any other comments? | 01:39:30 | |
| OK, I need a motion to go out of the public hearing. | 01:39:32 | |
| So move down to second. | 01:39:36 | |
| Sacrifice on favor? Aye, Alright. There is no action on this. We will move on to. | 01:39:38 | |
| Hold on. | 01:39:46 | |
| Alright. | 01:39:47 | |
| No, we're going to move on to our lakefront for Walk Park. | 01:39:54 | |
| 2.3. | 01:40:00 | |
| That's why I loved it you. | 01:40:01 | |
| Yeah. | 01:40:03 | |
| Ohh, we don't need it. We just need it for the public hearing. Let's do the 2.2, OK? I just wanted to get the Planning Commission | 01:40:07 | |
| through our staff as possible, so. | 01:40:11 | |
| OK, yes, we're open public hearing zoning text amendment Ordinance 22. | 01:40:16 | |
| 20/22/18. | 01:40:22 | |
| And this is to talk about the accessory dwelling units. | 01:40:24 | |
| Should we? | 01:40:29 | |
| Just real quick. | 01:40:34 | |
| Mayor Weird Anthony who was the one that had a time constraint has gone already. We we stopped three members unemployment | 01:40:35 | |
| Commission. | 01:40:38 | |
| Ohh, you need. Never mind. Disregard that, yeah. | 01:40:44 | |
| That's OK. Right after this, I'll turn the time over to the Planning Commission. | 01:40:52 | |
| And then we can come back if we need to to. That's all. | 01:40:56 | |
| OK. | 01:41:00 | |
| Sure. | 01:41:02 | |
| And can I get a motion to go into a public hearing and the 2nd? | 01:41:03 | |
| Second, I'm already all in favor. Aye. OK. Are we doing 80s right now? Is that OK? Thank you. | 01:41:07 | |
| 2 minutes OK, I'll be rubbing really quick. So easy. Change the the code. Right now we allow accessory dwelling units within all | 01:41:15 | |
| single family homes on bots 5200 square feet or larger. | 01:41:21 | |
| One of the general plan. | 01:41:27 | |
| Goals that that we recently adopted for the moderate income housing was to provide more flexibility for for a use and there is | 01:41:31 | |
| definitely a a movement to to allow accessory. | 01:41:37 | |
| Detached units. | 01:41:44 | |
| Pam, if you have the staff report or whoever is controlling the monitor, if you can just pull up the staff report and just just | 01:41:45 | |
| show it, show the picture. | 01:41:50 | |
| So right now the what's really nice is that the market is responding to the housing shortage. And so there's lots of kits you can | 01:41:56 | |
| buy. There's a lot of contractors that specialize in doing the detached accessory drawing units. | 01:42:02 | |
| So in the staff report on the first page, you'll see just just two examples. I just thought though that those were kind of | 01:42:09 | |
| interesting. | 01:42:12 | |
| And So what that code change would be would be to allow for detached accessory dwelling units. Right now it does allow them, but | 01:42:16 | |
| they have to be above a garage. | 01:42:20 | |
| And so it is fairly restrictive because a lot of the models that that you can buy are not garage accessory dwelling units. The | 01:42:25 | |
| same code would apply though so you you could you could only have one accessory dwelling unit. So if you have a detached one you | 01:42:31 | |
| can't have one in your basement or if you have one of your basement or in your main house you can't have a detached and so still | 01:42:36 | |
| 11 on the property. So this is just an example of of of some of the products out there that that are for purchase kits and stuff | 01:42:41 | |
| that you can purchase. | 01:42:46 | |
| Um, the the minimum lot size is 12,000 square feet if you do a detached accessory dwelling unit. | 01:42:52 | |
| And so I this is one that we worked with our Councilwoman Welsh on. | 01:43:00 | |
| And she felt that we needed to have a a minimum lot size for those because you, you know, essentially you having like 2 houses on | 01:43:06 | |
| one lot. | 01:43:10 | |
| And so ensuring that there's enough yard space to to accommodate both. | 01:43:14 | |
| And just overall room to have two, two units, so? | 01:43:18 | |
| That is. | 01:43:22 | |
| Everything for for the proposal. | 01:43:24 | |
| And there was one thing on section 9 it says connected to and service, but just the technical, like there's too much, too much, | 01:43:26 | |
| too many words there. | 01:43:31 | |
| Do you wanna roll to that An accessory dwelling unit shall be connected through and served by you got. | 01:43:35 | |
| Right of connected to. | 01:43:41 | |
| And ohh, yeah, they're served by. It's just technical language. Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't necessarily have to have to be connected | 01:43:43 | |
| to the to the house real quick question. Oh, I see what you're saying. OK as far as like Seward is there sewer line need to | 01:43:47 | |
| connect to the house? | 01:43:52 | |
| So it's still be on the same meter what we we don't want two separate meters so how as long as they meet the the standard for our | 01:43:57 | |
| city engineer or if I don't know if Emily knows those or not but but yeah yeah I mean you would still have to have somewhere | 01:44:03 | |
| they'd have to be a a bathroom there so you'd have to have the line run to it but it I believe it's. | 01:44:10 | |
| The power and that would still be on the same meter. OK, great. Any questions from the public? | 01:44:16 | |
| OK. | 01:44:25 | |
| Come on up to the microphone. | 01:44:27 | |
| So you don't know what your questions or comments are. | 01:44:29 | |
| Thank you. | 01:44:35 | |
| Going to state my name again. I'm sorry, Evans. | 01:44:36 | |
| I would just like to know is this just for new construction going forward or is this this? | 01:44:39 | |
| Applied to previously existing homes. | 01:44:45 | |
| Yeah, yeah, Yes to both. So if you're if you're buying a. | 01:44:50 | |
| If you're building a house, you can you can also build a, you know, a detached accessory dwelling unit. You just need to have at | 01:44:53 | |
| least a lot size of 12,000 square feet and you can also add 1 if you if you meet that that parameter. | 01:44:59 | |
| What do you think those? | 01:45:06 | |
| Detached homes will be what areas. | 01:45:08 | |
| And then you have those 12,000 square foot minimum, yeah. So initially we looked at 15,000 and there there there was only a few of | 01:45:11 | |
| them. Once you go to 12,000, I don't have like the percentage or so, but Christy and I went through a a few neighborhoods and you | 01:45:18 | |
| you get a lot of them in the lots of fan out on like the knuckles and that the cul de sacs you you get some of those like the some | 01:45:25 | |
| of the the lakeside developments that were built with larger lots that have like half acre to close to an acre. | 01:45:32 | |
| So there, there, there's, there's quite a few more, but we we kind of felt like 12,000 square feet. You didn't want to necessarily | 01:45:40 | |
| go smaller in that cause you're compacting just too much on the on the on a lot. And one thing the council is asked us to do is to | 01:45:46 | |
| try to keep our traditional single family neighborhoods to try to keep that character. So we didn't want to, you know, pack them | 01:45:51 | |
| in too much. Yeah. Alright. Thank you very much. Thank you. OK any other questions or comments by the public? | 01:45:57 | |
| If not gonna go out of the public hearing. | 01:46:03 | |
| So moved and 2nd, 2nd alright. | 01:46:07 | |
| Amber all in favor? | 01:46:10 | |
| I alright, I'm gonna go ahead and turn the time over to. | 01:46:11 | |
| Share Price Brady to open the special session for Planning Commission. | 01:46:17 | |
| Alright, today is October 26th, 2022. It is 7:49 PM and I'd like to open the Planning Commission special session. | 01:46:24 | |
| And we'll just go right to discussion and action on 3.1, which is the Zoning Text Amendment Ordinance 2022-18. | 01:46:33 | |
| And did you guys have any questions, this is regarding the accessory dwelling units, Any questions on that at all? | 01:46:41 | |
| If not, do I have a motion? | 01:46:47 | |
| Motion. | 01:46:50 | |
| Uh. | 01:46:51 | |
| Yeah. | 01:46:53 | |
| I moved to recommend approval of ordinance. | 01:46:54 | |
| 2022-18 Accessory Dwelling Units. | 01:46:57 | |
| Do I have a second? | 01:47:00 | |
| Alright, Steven, second, this is a roll call. So Craig? | 01:47:03 | |
| Alright, Steve. | 01:47:07 | |
| Alright. And Bryce, aye. | 01:47:09 | |
| Alright, that passes. Moving to 3.2, Zoning Text Amendment Ordinance 2022, Dash 19. | 01:47:11 | |
| And I do have the, the suggestion conditions and I'm happy to when you're ready. Yeah. Yeah, please. OK, great. So this is for the | 01:47:17 | |
| the vendor downtown and so the. | 01:47:23 | |
| Feel free to add or amend however you want so the conditions of approval are single family or OK. So the first is for the use | 01:47:30 | |
| section would be single household detached. | 01:47:35 | |
| Are OK, sorry. Single household detach uses are to be listed as a conditional use. | 01:47:42 | |
| And the downtown station Downtown mixed-use. | 01:47:49 | |
| Village. | 01:47:53 | |
| General. | 01:47:54 | |
| And lakefront commercial districts. | 01:47:56 | |
| And have a limit of 5% of. | 01:47:59 | |
| Of total units. | 01:48:02 | |
| The second condition. | 01:48:04 | |
| Is that single household attached? | 01:48:06 | |
| Uses. | 01:48:10 | |
| Be listed as a conditional use in the downtown station. Downtown mixed-use. | 01:48:11 | |
| And the lakefront commercial with the limit of 5% of total units. | 01:48:16 | |
| Any questions on those two? | 01:48:21 | |
| Yeah. | 01:48:22 | |
| 3rd condition is minimum ground. | 01:48:24 | |
| Floor or ground story transparency shall be 35% for residential uses and 6060% for commercial uses. | 01:48:27 | |
| I don't get 4th is provide an exception to Stoops and port requirements for buildings containing a courtyard. | 01:48:37 | |
| The requirements in the code currently will remain as a default standard, so. | 01:48:46 | |
| It was so we showed in the in the code, crossing things out, but those would be uncrossed out, but we would provide the the | 01:48:52 | |
| exception. | 01:48:55 | |
| Real quick clarification on that. Do we need to clarify? Does it need to be a courtyard or can it be a? | 01:48:58 | |
| Say or. | 01:49:05 | |
| Park should we add that language in or do you feel comfortable? I I think the the the courtyard was good because that provided | 01:49:07 | |
| what Pete was talking about as kind of like the the the private amenity for you know for the people that that live in the | 01:49:13 | |
| building. So they give them kind of that same feeling that you would get with the porch where you have kind of that private | 01:49:19 | |
| exterior space obviously shared with the that attendant but not by the general public. | 01:49:24 | |
| Keep the stoop minimum unless there's a courtyard or a for sale attached. OK? Isn't that what you said? | 01:49:31 | |
| No. | 01:49:38 | |
| Different. | 01:49:39 | |
| I don't know what it was, but. | 01:49:41 | |
| I think it was stupid stuff and imports to yeah just just added for variety in those ports. So much so. | 01:49:42 | |
| Because like. | 01:49:49 | |
| Matt said on the call. Like on the on the public streets, we're actually bigger porches and bigger Stoops, and we are in the | 01:49:51 | |
| paseos and courtyards. | 01:49:55 | |
| So. | 01:49:59 | |
| I think it's if it's on a per sale, I I see, yeah, I said if it's on a for sale or a courtyard then it can be different if it's on | 01:50:01 | |
| a public St. | 01:50:05 | |
| Then it's, then it's sticks with what's currently. So I think it is. Keep this through some unless it's unnecessary or you're | 01:50:10 | |
| right OK? | 01:50:14 | |
| And then a fifth. | 01:50:19 | |
| Add language to the Plaza and open space area sections. | 01:50:21 | |
| That spaces in excess of the requirements of will require site plan approval for non residential structures. | 01:50:25 | |
| The taste of that go far enough or that go that go that go far enough but yeah, yeah. | 01:50:34 | |
| Great. And those are the five conditions. OK. So if you you could say as. | 01:50:39 | |
| Stated in the in the record. | 01:50:44 | |
| Yeah. | 01:50:46 | |
| Alright, do I have a motion? | 01:50:47 | |
| I moved to recommend approval of ordinance 2022-19, Downtown Vineyard Special Purpose District. | 01:50:50 | |
| As mentioned in the record. | 01:50:57 | |
| Do I have a second? Ohh, I apologize with. | 01:50:59 | |
| With the conditions, with conditions mentioned, yeah, and and and the removal of the the parking study section to to be reviewed | 01:51:03 | |
| at at at a later date. Are we doing that or it would go back through the process we we bring it back to Planning Commission and | 01:51:08 | |
| the City Council. So, but we could approve the parking as it's written and then they could just do whatever they want with that, | 01:51:13 | |
| right? Yeah, you could. | 01:51:19 | |
| OK. | 01:51:25 | |
| Unless you wanna change the parking. So do I need to change what I just said? | 01:51:26 | |
| No, you're you're. No, you're you're you're. Yeah. So you got you guys you guys can provide that recommendation and then the City | 01:51:30 | |
| Council can approve it while withholding the the parking study to be considered in another ordinance. You don't need to mention | 01:51:35 | |
| the parking at all. So you're you're fine. | 01:51:40 | |
| OK. Yeah. | 01:51:46 | |
| Go ahead, second, second. Alright. This also is a roll call, Craig, Steve and Bryce I. | 01:51:47 | |
| Alright, that is also move the time over to Mayor former. | 01:51:54 | |
| OK, thank you. If you have to go, you're now free to leave. And I'm gonna. | 01:51:59 | |
| Go back to our joint work session. | 01:52:04 | |
| And. | 01:52:07 | |
| And it's 755 and we'll have our discussion on the Lakefront Boardwalk Park. | 01:52:08 | |
| Thanks, Steve. | 01:52:17 | |
| Is it? Is it easier for you? | 01:52:21 | |
| Hold on a SEC. | 01:52:35 | |
| Friends like. | 01:52:56 | |
| You know. | 01:53:18 | |
| Yeah, it should be good. | 01:53:19 | |
| Alright, Planning Commission and City Council. Ohh. Should we wait a minute or? | 01:53:21 | |
| Well, I'll go do a quick, I can do it. Just a really quick intro. | 01:53:28 | |
| Ohh yeah. | 01:53:34 | |
| That reach the red. | 01:53:37 | |
| Hey Tasha, can you help Susie out? | 01:53:43 | |
| Dongle. | 01:53:48 | |
| Answers. | 01:53:49 | |
| I don't know. | 01:53:51 | |
| Yeah. | 01:53:54 | |
| Substance. | 01:53:56 | |
| Somebody did something. | 01:53:59 | |
| Adjusted. | 01:54:04 | |
| Nice. | 01:54:08 | |
| Alright. | 01:54:16 | |
| Alright. | 01:54:22 | |
| Just let's get rolling. Alright, so Planning, Planning Commission, City Council, this is a really exciting project. We emailed it | 01:54:24 | |
| over to you this morning. | 01:54:28 | |
| As you know we had a couple months ago we approved the Waterfront Master plan is is really great headed up by FKR and EDS A | 01:54:34 | |
| design. | 01:54:38 | |
| And so now FKR is doing kind of the more granular that design and on on the Catalyst project for the the grant, the TRC Granite as | 01:54:43 | |
| you all know. And so we're really excited we we kind of chose the the beach area and the Borough Park. We felt that would be a | 01:54:50 | |
| great catalyst as. | 01:54:56 | |
| And we also wanted this, this open space feature to be able to connect with our future economic development goals and the | 01:55:04 | |
| Boardwalk area will have this program. They have a lot of retail and restaurants and and those kind of things to help. | 01:55:09 | |
| Kind of boost our overall regional tourism in the area. | 01:55:16 | |
| And anyway, without any further ado, I'll turn the time over to Will and to Susie. | 01:55:19 | |
| Yeah, Susie Petheram with FTR and I'll have Will to state his name. | 01:55:27 | |
| Will Linscott with Fr. | 01:55:34 | |
| Right. | 01:55:38 | |
| Thanks. So we just have some slides to go through. As Morgan said, this is a really exciting project and it's one that we're very | 01:55:39 | |
| excited about. | 01:55:44 | |
| And. | 01:55:49 | |
| Happy to be here to share a little bit more details on the progress of the project so. | 01:55:50 | |
| We're gonna go through a few slides and just tell you a little bit about the project areas as Morgan mentioned, we're focusing on. | 01:55:57 | |
| The Downtown Waterfront area, also known as the North Waterfront area. | 01:56:06 | |
| And. | 01:56:13 | |
| While it's one project area, what we're looking to do is implement different elements and ideas from the master plan in a series | 01:56:14 | |
| of distinct but related projects. | 01:56:20 | |
| That will launch that transformation of the Vineyard waterfront and the goals of these first projects are to really set that sense | 01:56:25 | |
| of arrival and place making at the waterfront. | 01:56:31 | |
| Improve the access both to the waterfront and down to the beach area. | 01:56:37 | |
| And then provide some great amenities and activities for people when they come to the waterfront, whether it's a Vineyard resident | 01:56:42 | |
| or something coming from outside of Vineyard. | 01:56:46 | |
| So there's seven different proposed target areas for the projects. | 01:56:52 | |
| And we'll go through the overall plan and some of the features and then we've just got some character in the tree to talk about | 01:56:57 | |
| each of the the sub project areas as we move forward. So Will and I will just switch back and forth tell you a little bit more | 01:57:03 | |
| detail. I'm a planner and urban designer, Willis the landscape architect and designer. So all of the the great design work is is | 01:57:09 | |
| built handicraft. | 01:57:15 | |
| And we've just collaborated on putting together some of the character imagery. So just as a quick recap. | 01:57:21 | |
| This is the the North Waterfront concept design that came from the master plan that we worked on with you and with the ESA. | 01:57:27 | |
| Over the past year. | 01:57:36 | |
| This image shows a. | 01:57:38 | |
| Merger with the downtown concept design and so an overlay of how the two looked together and. | 01:57:41 | |
| What we're hoping to accomplish with this is to. | 01:57:49 | |
| You know, take some of the elements of the downtown plan. | 01:57:52 | |
| And the concept plan from the Waterfront Master Plan. | 01:57:55 | |
| And just begin to look at the similarities and how we can start to implement some of the ideas from both sides of the lake room. | 01:57:58 | |
| So going through the preliminary design, we just wanted to start off by showing an overview of. | 01:58:07 | |
| Uh. | 01:58:15 | |
| The preliminary design on that merged concept plan overlay. | 01:58:16 | |
| We have about 20-9 different features and those will be called out on the next page but also in the the project sub pages so we | 01:58:20 | |
| won't try to get into a lot of detail. | 01:58:25 | |
| But you can see that the project area really starts at the the North End. | 01:58:31 | |
| By that reclamation pond that's currently in existence and right around where the North Promenade is going to. | 01:58:36 | |
| Intersect across the vineyard connector and over to the waterfront. | 01:58:44 | |
| With the southern boundary being that sells promenade. | 01:58:48 | |
| Right now we're working from the line work for the roadway design and the current draft that's showing the potential roundabout | 01:58:52 | |
| connection of the South Promenade Overpass and where 300 W will connect into the Lake Rd. | 01:58:59 | |
| We know that the the Lake Rd. | 01:59:06 | |
| Alignment design is still in a little bit of flux, and so some of that may adjust and some of the things on the east side may | 01:59:08 | |
| adjust, but we feel fairly confident that the alignment of the lake trail and everything W is is fairly solid as far as location. | 01:59:17 | |
| So many of the features are located on the West side, but we are starting to show some of those ideas of how the the East | 01:59:26 | |
| boardwalk area can start to look. | 01:59:31 | |
| And integrate with the the waterfront design so. | 01:59:36 | |
| The features, like I said, we have 29 of them. They're grouped by the different 7 projects of the areas. | 01:59:41 | |
| And we've got everything from 4:00 block paths to overlooks. | 01:59:48 | |
| As well as some terrorist steps down to the beach. | 01:59:52 | |
| And some landscape tourist areas where there could be seating and potentially some screen cabanas. | 01:59:57 | |
| As well as. | 02:00:03 | |
| Improve the pathways down to the beach and along the beach. | 02:00:04 | |
| And some enhancement of that existing tree Grove. | 02:00:08 | |
| With some elevated walkways and potentially A roofs course. | 02:00:12 | |
| And I'm looking to improve some of the the landscaping with native vegetation. | 02:00:17 | |
| Clear enough some of the the invasive species down on the the beach and improving that. | 02:00:22 | |
| Surface area. | 02:00:27 | |
| And then looking to incorporate a stormwater garden with that major stormwater outfall on the South end. | 02:00:29 | |
| So I'm going to have will just. | 02:00:37 | |
| Go through in the next couple of slides that just shows some of the the overview with different backgrounds. | 02:00:39 | |
| Umm. | 02:00:51 | |
| This is just, uh, before kind of going into the individual. | 02:00:52 | |
| Pieces. | 02:00:57 | |
| Some of the. | 02:00:58 | |
| Sort of. | 02:00:59 | |
| Really, what we're trying to do with? | 02:01:01 | |
| What we're showing here as these. | 02:01:04 | |
| Um. | 02:01:07 | |
| These pieces that we'd like to start implementing. | 02:01:08 | |
| Kind of as soon as possible or things that are gonna be. | 02:01:12 | |
| Successful. | 02:01:14 | |
| In the long term with with sort of the realization of. | 02:01:16 | |
| More features from the original master plan. | 02:01:21 | |
| That are going to come with you know. | 02:01:24 | |
| The the construction of the beach and the lagoons and and a lot of this. | 02:01:26 | |
| More heavy-handed kind of. | 02:01:30 | |
| Ecological engineering and and the peers that's going to be sort of a. | 02:01:32 | |
| A longer, more drawn out process. | 02:01:36 | |
| So. | 02:01:38 | |
| Umm. | 02:01:39 | |
| A lot of this is identifying. | 02:01:40 | |
| With the current constrictions of. | 02:01:43 | |
| Slope and road alignment. | 02:01:45 | |
| Umm. | 02:01:48 | |
| What we can. | 02:01:49 | |
| What we can have soon. | 02:01:51 | |
| That will. | 02:01:53 | |
| You know. | 02:01:54 | |
| Kind of capitalize on the opportunities that are here. | 02:01:55 | |
| And provide a lot of the sort of footwork. | 02:01:58 | |
| Going forward for those future developments and not have to be. | 02:02:02 | |
| Demolished. | 02:02:06 | |
| As things progress into the the. | 02:02:07 | |
| State is further on. So anyway, this map is just showing wetland. | 02:02:10 | |
| The wetland areas that are. | 02:02:17 | |
| Umm. | 02:02:19 | |
| More protected environmentally, ecologically as they should be and the topography and slope of the existing the slope is is that | 02:02:21 | |
| yellow line that's sort of where the existing bluff line is. So working with that thinking about you know. | 02:02:27 | |
| Major. | 02:02:34 | |
| Land. | 02:02:35 | |
| Moving and. | 02:02:37 | |
| Bringing some of these pieces out. | 02:02:38 | |
| In a way, again, that's really just gonna set us up for success in in the future. | 02:02:41 | |
| Umm. | 02:02:48 | |
| Am I going the right way? | 02:02:52 | |
| OK. So we had these as spreads, but they fit better on single pages. | 02:02:54 | |
| Umm. | 02:03:00 | |
| So this. | 02:03:01 | |
| First area I'll talk about is is the furthest north. | 02:03:03 | |
| And that is really going to be one of the main arrivals and. | 02:03:06 | |
| And. | 02:03:11 | |
| It is the. | 02:03:12 | |
| The old steel site, that is. | 02:03:14 | |
| Sort of. | 02:03:15 | |
| Undergoing, you know, ecological remediation. | 02:03:16 | |
| That really is this Oasis. It's kind of a special Oasis that I think Vineyard has. | 02:03:20 | |
| So working with the entities at hand to. | 02:03:25 | |
| Somehow provide a pretty light handed access into that. | 02:03:30 | |
| Space. | 02:03:35 | |
| A viewing platform. | 02:03:36 | |
| Boardwalks. | 02:03:38 | |
| And. | 02:03:39 | |
| You know something that's gonna bring. | 02:03:41 | |
| People. | 02:03:43 | |
| Down down the vineyard, even before, really, there's much. | 02:03:44 | |
| Urban Development in this area as a place for for that. | 02:03:49 | |
| Kind of rest relaxation capitalizing on. | 02:03:53 | |
| Trail systems and and providing. | 02:03:56 | |
| Access down to water, vegetation. | 02:03:59 | |
| Um. | 02:04:02 | |
| And so you kind of get a look at at. | 02:04:03 | |
| How the North Promenade. | 02:04:06 | |
| Comes up and. | 02:04:09 | |
| Basically this is kind of in your main. Your main view shed is. | 02:04:13 | |
| And. | 02:04:17 | |
| You know, wetland and and these kind of lower lying. | 02:04:18 | |
| Boardwalk areas. | 02:04:22 | |
| Slightly to the north and then as we'll get in the next slide. | 02:04:24 | |
| Something a little bit more. | 02:04:28 | |
| Built to the South. | 02:04:30 | |
| So you can see here that yeah, the boardwalk path. | 02:04:32 | |
| And this semi circular kind of overlook. | 02:04:35 | |
| Um. | 02:04:39 | |
| And. | 02:04:41 | |
| In improving sort of these? | 02:04:44 | |
| Trail access around that area and providing a couple of circuits. | 02:04:46 | |
| Um. | 02:04:52 | |
| Just going through some character energy imagery of what we're thinking of. | 02:04:53 | |
| So really kind of nestled into. | 02:04:57 | |
| The landscape working again with with the features that are there. | 02:05:00 | |
| For the pathways, nothing too heavy-handed, not hard pavement necessarily. | 02:05:06 | |
| And we do provide a lot of ADA access in some other areas. | 02:05:12 | |
| Something that is. | 02:05:17 | |
| Relatively accessible, but doesn't need to be, you know, fully concrete paved. | 02:05:20 | |
| And again Boardwalk, you know you can have very minimal footings that that really. | 02:05:24 | |
| Do not disturb the welling. | 02:05:28 | |
| Um. | 02:05:31 | |
| Going on further South. | 02:05:32 | |
| We have kind of the. | 02:05:34 | |
| Uh. | 02:05:37 | |
| The Plaza and and terraces down to the beach that are. | 02:05:38 | |
| Going to. | 02:05:43 | |
| Kind of be this central point in. | 02:05:44 | |
| Into lakefront development and and taken from. | 02:05:49 | |
| The form and and the ideas moving forward of. | 02:05:51 | |
| Of the future concept. | 02:05:54 | |
| We. | 02:05:56 | |
| Would like to provide. | 02:05:58 | |
| So here we do have ADA access all the way down to the beach. | 02:06:00 | |
| Circular ramp. | 02:06:06 | |
| Um around this upper Plaza. | 02:06:07 | |
| I. | 02:06:10 | |
| So. | 02:06:11 | |
| You know, it's it's kind of hard to see in plan, but if you're thinking about this. | 02:06:12 | |
| In. | 02:06:16 | |
| Elevation. | 02:06:18 | |
| I'm starting at the north. | 02:06:19 | |
| That's all sort of at at the grade of the the road and then those, those terrorists. | 02:06:21 | |
| Kind of open space areas kind of step down as the ramp takes you down to the beach. | 02:06:25 | |
| To. | 02:06:31 | |
| Lower. | 02:06:32 | |
| Basically, you could have cabanas that are fixed and beach access. There's there's. | 02:06:33 | |
| Rock bouldering walls and so this is all up on kind of a retaining wall with these overlook overlooks up top. | 02:06:39 | |
| The wide open Plaza area. | 02:06:47 | |
| Space for a pavilion as as we've discussed back and forth with our steering committee. | 02:06:49 | |
| That can be used for ice skating in the winter and. | 02:06:54 | |
| Basically really open-ended as far as events and programming goes. | 02:06:58 | |
| And again, that's that's really the main goal of this is. | 02:07:03 | |
| Is is taking me the opportunities that we have providing these open-ended. | 02:07:09 | |
| Umm. | 02:07:14 | |
| Programming experiences. | 02:07:16 | |
| And. | 02:07:18 | |
| Uh. | 02:07:19 | |
| Giving something. | 02:07:20 | |
| That is. | 02:07:21 | |
| Very usable. | 02:07:22 | |
| That. | 02:07:25 | |
| That doesn't get in the way of. | 02:07:26 | |
| Future development down the road. | 02:07:28 | |
| Here's some images of. | 02:07:31 | |
| Of like the pavilion in in. | 02:07:33 | |
| Ohh boy. | 02:07:36 | |
| Hey. | 02:07:37 | |
| Yeah, Manassas. Thank you. | 02:07:38 | |
| So you can get roughly kind of an idea for size scale those over the lake views. | 02:07:40 | |
| Straight out of the water. | 02:07:47 | |
| At. | 02:07:48 | |
| A couple of the areas had the these larger kind of amphitheater steps down toward like the boardwalk area that. | 02:07:49 | |
| Um. | 02:07:57 | |
| Basically you could use for for seeding and. | 02:07:58 | |
| Kind of all of this again, is is really openly programmable? | 02:08:02 | |
| Umm. | 02:08:06 | |
| Centered around access. | 02:08:08 | |
| Views. | 02:08:10 | |
| And kind of passive recreation. | 02:08:12 | |
| Um. | 02:08:16 | |
| We've got just some imagery of of cabanas and and kind of vegetated. | 02:08:18 | |
| Areas. | 02:08:23 | |
| Um, surrounding those walkways and steps and. | 02:08:24 | |
| Providing. | 02:08:28 | |
| Some active recreation in the area. | 02:08:29 | |
| Kind of in the form of of Rockwall's. | 02:08:32 | |
| Capitalizing on the height change that's going to be there, these retaining walls that that would need to be in the area. | 02:08:35 | |
| Umm. | 02:08:41 | |
| Adjacent to where you know parents are gonna be. | 02:08:42 | |
| Hanging out of their cabanas, looking over the beach, watching the sunset, their kids are right next to them, climbing on walls, | 02:08:46 | |
| hopefully only falling about six or seven feet. | 02:08:50 | |
| And. | 02:08:55 | |
| And you know. | 02:08:56 | |
| Getting hurt and not telling their parents about it, ideally. | 02:08:57 | |
| Just kidding. | 02:09:01 | |
| They won't get her. Kids don't get hurt. | 02:09:02 | |
| How am I doing? | 02:09:07 | |
| On time. Alright, yeah. | 02:09:09 | |
| Where? | 02:09:11 | |
| We. | 02:09:12 | |
| Are also looking at. | 02:09:14 | |
| So. | 02:09:16 | |
| This access to these areas. | 02:09:17 | |
| This, this north. | 02:09:20 | |
| Mall. | 02:09:21 | |
| Is gonna be really simple. | 02:09:23 | |
| Kind of. | 02:09:25 | |
| We want open space. | 02:09:27 | |
| Some allies of trees that framed the views. | 02:09:29 | |
| And walkways to get you from the vineyard connector and areas where people are gonna be parking to these areas. | 02:09:32 | |
| And I mean leaving that. | 02:09:39 | |
| To. | 02:09:42 | |
| Improving it with with shade structures. | 02:09:43 | |
| Ah. | 02:09:47 | |
| We planted arbors potentially. | 02:09:48 | |
| Seating elements of inches, tables, places to picnic, but. | 02:09:50 | |
| Otherwise. | 02:09:54 | |
| Again, very openly programmed. | 02:09:55 | |
| And just fitting within kind of the form of of. | 02:09:58 | |
| What we're. | 02:10:01 | |
| Anticipating kind of. | 02:10:02 | |
| Bridging that east side and West side of the Lake Rd. | 02:10:04 | |
| Um. | 02:10:09 | |
| More character imagery of. | 02:10:11 | |
| Kind of. | 02:10:13 | |
| Just. | 02:10:15 | |
| What we have in mind, this mix of kind of park and Plaza again transitioning from that. | 02:10:18 | |
| More developed side to the lakeside. | 02:10:23 | |
| Um. | 02:10:26 | |
| The Boardwalk Park, just a little bit further South. | 02:10:28 | |
| A kind of a budding the. | 02:10:31 | |
| Retail corridor. | 02:10:35 | |
| Providing providing access. | 02:10:38 | |
| This is. | 02:10:40 | |
| You know, we're still really waiting to get. | 02:10:41 | |
| The footprints of these figured out what we do know are the blocks. | 02:10:45 | |
| And where crossing is going to be. So really focusing on. | 02:10:50 | |
| Safe pedestrian crossings. | 02:10:53 | |
| And these raised tabletop crossings. | 02:10:55 | |
| Tree lined pathways providing shade, providing places to stop. | 02:10:57 | |
| Umm. | 02:11:01 | |
| Giving some of those spaces to to move and rest on the east side again. | 02:11:02 | |
| And then those transition areas over to the West, West side of the lake. | 02:11:07 | |
| Are there any any questions so far? | 02:11:14 | |
| OK. | 02:11:21 | |
| It's something that that you know is a kind of a. | 02:11:23 | |
| Stephen. | 02:11:27 | |
| A fun piece of this project. | 02:11:28 | |
| There's there's that. | 02:11:29 | |
| Big stand of of Cottonwood trees. | 02:11:31 | |
| That. | 02:11:33 | |
| We think. | 02:11:34 | |
| Could be. | 02:11:36 | |
| A Pretty pretty awesome. | 02:11:37 | |
| Place to have. | 02:11:39 | |
| And it does happen to be laying within a wetland, so you can't do much on the ground level, but you can potentially go up into the | 02:11:41 | |
| trees. | 02:11:44 | |
| And. | 02:11:48 | |
| There are. | 02:11:49 | |
| Plenty of of. | 02:11:51 | |
| Examples of. | 02:11:53 | |
| Kind of ropes courses, adventure courses like this in urban areas. | 02:11:54 | |
| That are kind of a main dry daytime and night time. | 02:11:58 | |
| Umm. | 02:12:02 | |
| Not. | 02:12:03 | |
| And here you can see kind of a few examples. | 02:12:05 | |
| That you don't really need much height and much space. | 02:12:10 | |
| Um. | 02:12:14 | |
| And. | 02:12:16 | |
| You're able to. | 02:12:18 | |
| Use um. | 02:12:20 | |
| Kind of this. | 02:12:23 | |
| Existing. | 02:12:24 | |
| Elevation to not have to build this big structure. | 02:12:26 | |
| To get up. | 02:12:31 | |
| But. | 02:12:33 | |
| Rather kind of. | 02:12:34 | |
| Lighter. | 02:12:36 | |
| Lighter handed. | 02:12:37 | |
| Yeah. | 02:12:38 | |
| What time is it? | 02:12:43 | |
| Sorry. | 02:12:45 | |
| Yeah. | 02:12:48 | |
| And you can't forget the zip line. | 02:12:49 | |
| Kind of a lighter hand to touch in this area that could be an attraction. | 02:12:52 | |
| For kind of people all over, there's nothing like this in the area and and I think the lakefront is is kind of. | 02:12:56 | |
| A perfect place for it. | 02:13:04 | |
| You can see the zip line over the lake lit up at night. | 02:13:06 | |
| Umm. | 02:13:10 | |
| Proposing. | 02:13:11 | |
| Pathways that dip down. | 02:13:13 | |
| As part of this access to the lower level. | 02:13:15 | |
| That kind of cut into. | 02:13:18 | |
| The. | 02:13:20 | |
| Into the bluff. | 02:13:21 | |
| Umm. | 02:13:23 | |
| And in this particular space you you would be kind of walking through the treetops, you wouldn't even need to be on the ropes | 02:13:24 | |
| course. So kind of giving you that glimpse without even having to you know, take take that extra risk. | 02:13:29 | |
| Umm. | 02:13:37 | |
| Looking at the kind of furthest area South. | 02:13:39 | |
| We have talked about. | 02:13:43 | |
| Building A. | 02:13:47 | |
| A memorial and I I believe it is a a Veterans Memorial. | 02:13:49 | |
| Um. | 02:13:54 | |
| And. | 02:13:56 | |
| The idea here. | 02:13:57 | |
| You can see it's that circle label #25. | 02:13:59 | |
| Is that? | 02:14:02 | |
| From From the Streetscape. | 02:14:04 | |
| You have this space. | 02:14:07 | |
| Kind of similar to the Ensign Peak Memorial if you've been there. | 02:14:09 | |
| That is dropped down about, you know, halfway into the bluff. | 02:14:13 | |
| And. | 02:14:17 | |
| Um. | 02:14:18 | |
| So held up by this retaining wall with with plantings of trees, so that from above. | 02:14:19 | |
| You're kind of seeing the top of this space. | 02:14:24 | |
| Uh, whatever this structure is. And the treetops. | 02:14:27 | |
| But. | 02:14:30 | |
| It is. | 02:14:31 | |
| Sort of vertically removed from. | 02:14:32 | |
| The hustle and bustle of the road, so you're in a quiet space. | 02:14:34 | |
| Facing out to the lake. | 02:14:39 | |
| And then you have the stormwater outflow right there, so. | 02:14:41 | |
| Planting, managing. | 02:14:46 | |
| That as. | 02:14:48 | |
| As. | 02:14:49 | |
| Part of this, this garden, this memorial. | 02:14:51 | |
| Umm. | 02:14:54 | |
| As as the water kind of pours out, spreads out. | 02:14:56 | |
| The idea is. | 02:14:59 | |
| That. | 02:15:01 | |
| You're in this. | 02:15:02 | |
| Kind of peaceful Oasis. | 02:15:04 | |
| Umm. | 02:15:06 | |
| Getting a glimpse of it from above but but having to kind of. | 02:15:07 | |
| Walk that pathway down to below. | 02:15:11 | |
| Here is the inside peak. | 02:15:15 | |
| Memorial, you can kind of see that it's it's built into the mountainside. | 02:15:18 | |
| Here's some other examples, just some project precedents of. | 02:15:23 | |
| Of stormwater gardens and. | 02:15:27 | |
| At the top right is the the National AIDS Memorial. | 02:15:30 | |
| Um, just similar kind of. | 02:15:34 | |
| Languages with. | 02:15:37 | |
| Umm. | 02:15:39 | |
| A pathway or two and then. | 02:15:41 | |
| Vegetation. | 02:15:44 | |
| And umm. | 02:15:46 | |
| Shared seclusion. Quiet. | 02:15:47 | |
| One of the biggest pieces. | 02:15:51 | |
| Of this early stages is is. | 02:15:53 | |
| Keeping access through the Utah Trail and enhancing the Utah Utah Lake Trail. | 02:15:56 | |
| And. | 02:16:01 | |
| By. | 02:16:03 | |
| Expanding. | 02:16:04 | |
| West. | 02:16:05 | |
| Of the current trail. | 02:16:06 | |
| Uh, with landscaping with, with. | 02:16:08 | |
| Maintenance. Bike maintenance pieces. | 02:16:11 | |
| Umm. | 02:16:14 | |
| Tree plantings. Again, these these access paths down. | 02:16:15 | |
| That take you down to the beach, Back up, down to the beach, back up. | 02:16:19 | |
| Um. | 02:16:23 | |
| As as we talked about kind of raised table top crossings. | 02:16:25 | |
| Um some on street parking that. | 02:16:29 | |
| Yeah. | 02:16:32 | |
| You know. | 02:16:32 | |
| That's. | 02:16:33 | |
| Obviously very contentious, contentious issue. | 02:16:35 | |
| But. | 02:16:39 | |
| Providing that access in these earlier stages before. | 02:16:40 | |
| All the parking lots are. | 02:16:45 | |
| Fully built and. | 02:16:47 | |
| Um, just making sure that people can. | 02:16:49 | |
| Get to you. | 02:16:51 | |
| Kind of all all of these. | 02:16:54 | |
| Offerings. | 02:16:55 | |
| Via. | 02:16:56 | |
| Walking via bike via car. | 02:16:57 | |
| Umm. | 02:17:01 | |
| So. | 02:17:04 | |
| Yeah, here, here's. | 02:17:07 | |
| Basically some of the. | 02:17:09 | |
| Site furnishings that were kind of considering. | 02:17:10 | |
| Um. | 02:17:14 | |
| Simple. | 02:17:16 | |
| Wood resistant. | 02:17:18 | |
| Comfortable at some? | 02:17:21 | |
| On street parking, obviously with with. | 02:17:25 | |
| A fair amount of landscaping where there where there is cars. | 02:17:28 | |
| Keeping keeping that shade as a priority. | 02:17:32 | |
| Um. | 02:17:35 | |
| And screening the views. | 02:17:36 | |
| Umm. | 02:17:41 | |
| Sorry, Susie. | 02:17:44 | |
| I think I was supposed to switch off with you. | 02:17:45 | |
| Yeah. | 02:17:49 | |
| Got carried away. | 02:17:50 | |
| Umm. | 02:17:54 | |
| Susie, do you have anything to add? Does anyone have any questions? | 02:17:55 | |
| Yeah, I have. I have some questions. | 02:18:00 | |
| As we're going through this process, what is kind of the timeline? Are you looking for guidance back tonight? | 02:18:02 | |
| What can we do tonight for you? | 02:18:09 | |
| Well, and I know it's a work session, but what what kind of feedback would you like to see tonight? | 02:18:12 | |
| So basically just some early like any initial reactions to some of the design direction that we're taking and if there's any of | 02:18:18 | |
| these project subset areas that really stick out is like this is a top priority. | 02:18:25 | |
| You know, maybe this isn't as high of a priority. | 02:18:33 | |
| With the funding, you know, it would be great if we could do it all. That might not be the case and so we just want to start | 02:18:36 | |
| prioritizing things from a a funding perspective. | 02:18:41 | |
| And knowing that there's going to be different schedule tracks for some of these projects just based on the coordination either | 02:18:46 | |
| with the the Lake Rd. design or if there are some wetland impacts even if they're minimal, you know that will need to go through a | 02:18:52 | |
| separate process. But what we've. | 02:18:57 | |
| Tried to do is to create like a great deal of amenities that don't have any wetland impacts. | 02:19:04 | |
| So it's really just a matter of coordinating with the the state for moving some of those amenities boards. So that's that's the | 02:19:11 | |
| main feedback is you know what. | 02:19:15 | |
| You know what sticks out of the priority? And are there any things that you know that we've shown that don't really, you know, | 02:19:21 | |
| resonate? Is there something that's missing that we can try to include? | 02:19:26 | |
| Uh, just general feedback. | 02:19:31 | |
| Awesome. Well, it looks amazing. You guys are doing great. | 02:19:33 | |
| I feel like it's capturing so much of what we talked about and all our committees came together and spoke about counselors there, | 02:19:37 | |
| Planning Commission, is there stuff that you guys wanna? | 02:19:41 | |
| Add to it or see. Or would you like to make a list and maybe e-mail it in just like the overall map of it? | 02:19:47 | |
| That would be cool. | 02:19:53 | |
| Have have we moved forward at all with getting those wetlands like changed? | 02:20:02 | |
| As far as that beach area? | 02:20:08 | |
| The. | 02:20:12 | |
| Are you asking if? | 02:20:13 | |
| There are wetlands currently on the beach if there are wetlands or if we are in the process of like working on doing so. If there | 02:20:15 | |
| were wetlands on the beach, what we would do and what the process would be is that we would work with the Army Corps and get them | 02:20:21 | |
| delineated and then we would protect them how the Army Corps wanted us to do it. So if we went through a survey and it was | 02:20:27 | |
| delineated, we could discover that if you're talking about to the north, that there's a reservoir with phragmites in it that kind | 02:20:34 | |
| of looked like wetlands. | 02:20:40 | |
| We might need to mitigate to some sense. We would work through that state process as well. So if there were wetlands and we will | 02:20:46 | |
| discover, if we discovered them, we would just protect them and then we'd go around and yeah, if it's mitigation, we'll discover | 02:20:53 | |
| that and then we'll mitigate what we need to mitigate. Is that right? Kind of what you were expressing. I guess my question is on | 02:21:00 | |
| the plans that we've gone through already. We're planning on expanding the Beach Park 1800 feet. | 02:21:07 | |
| Um, that area is what I'm talking about specifically, yeah. So, and we understand everyone told us that that that's, that needs to | 02:21:15 | |
| be the focus because the process takes so long. We do have deadlines, 2023 December, we need to expend the funds for for the | 02:21:20 | |
| grant. | 02:21:25 | |
| And so Susie and Will been really great helping us identify the projects that we can do now to to expand those grant funds. And | 02:21:31 | |
| then I believe Nichols Engineering they're they're they're working right now at at analyzing kind of that beach area because we | 02:21:38 | |
| want to bring in sand, we want to deepen it, we want to potentially dredge the the immediate area around there. | 02:21:46 | |
| We could do a sand saver wall aeration. I mean there there's a lot of really good ideas, yeah, but we we do have to go through | 02:21:54 | |
| that that process. And so the beach expansion most likely is going to take a few years to to go through that process. But this is, | 02:21:59 | |
| I don't want to say low hanging fruit because it's really great projects, but these are the projects that we can build now with | 02:22:04 | |
| the grant money. | 02:22:09 | |
| Yeah. But exactly what I said. If if we did come across that, it would be through those two methods. Yeah, right. And then just | 02:22:16 | |
| kind of where I'm going with this is. | 02:22:20 | |
| Because I know that the. | 02:22:26 | |
| Hope is that we get that beach in as soon as possible. | 02:22:29 | |
| So I say if we are gonna focus on an area, we should focus right there. Obviously we're not going to be doing the beach with this | 02:22:32 | |
| first funding, but that kind of Plaza area, everything right next to the beach I would say would be the focus. | 02:22:40 | |
| Yeah, I can I add something to what's the wetlands? | 02:22:48 | |
| So you're going to have wetlands. It's probably pretty obvious, but. | 02:22:52 | |
| One of the things that is an opportunity and that the Army Corps permit allows. | 02:22:55 | |
| Because if we do have impacts and we are required to mitigate, you could take advantage of that in your design coming up. So just. | 02:23:01 | |
| Not obviously. We wanna avoid as much as we can. Just know that. | 02:23:09 | |
| Diamond core process does allow you to mitigate and with design it would be a great opportunity to take advantage of. | 02:23:12 | |
| Creating good space and also taking advantage of OK, well, we we do have to mitigate but. | 02:23:21 | |
| So anyways, I'm just saying, just an idea to think about. | 02:23:25 | |
| Yeah. | 02:23:29 | |
| I think as far as I go I might have some ideas. All ideas, but what I would do is probably e-mail them to you. So is there a | 02:23:30 | |
| deadline that you guys would would be acceptable for additional? | 02:23:35 | |
| Yeah, I I think whenever you can send them would be great. You know, we're just working with our, our steering committee just | 02:23:42 | |
| trying to. | 02:23:45 | |
| And to refine some of these ideas and move them forward. So I don't OK, you could probably in in the next like 2 weeks at the | 02:23:49 | |
| latest, because what what we want to do is get like kind of thumbs up. Are we going in the right direction finding kind of like | 02:23:55 | |
| what those focus areas on And then FTR is going to then take us from a schematic design and start working on that discussion, | 02:24:01 | |
| Morgan. So we focus on next Wednesday or next Friday, not this Friday, but next Friday. | 02:24:07 | |
| Did do a I had our notes in. OK, great. Let's focus on that and. | 02:24:14 | |
| Yeah, I think that's great. I I just wanna add that I think it's awesome and my son's watching and he wanted me to add the zip | 02:24:22 | |
| line was really cool and he wants a pumpkin patch so I'm not sure where but he's pretty interesting. So if pumpkins can be | 02:24:28 | |
| considered, you know, native vegetation maybe, maybe there's a great space for them so. | 02:24:35 | |
| Yeah, and. | 02:24:43 | |
| This map that I stopped on. | 02:24:46 | |
| Shows that wetlands in that blue, So that's from a delineation study that was done. | 02:24:49 | |
| To show where that boundary is between the open water and the compromise line and some of the wetlands on the beach area. | 02:24:55 | |
| And the whole idea with the the beach when we talked to the core during the master plan process, one of the things they wanted to | 02:25:03 | |
| see was a a smaller demonstration project area for the beach so that the you know engineering and the. | 02:25:11 | |
| You know strategies that we are proposing. | 02:25:20 | |
| There could be built at a smaller scale, you know. Go through a couple seasons to see how you know the weather, the ice close and | 02:25:23 | |
| the fluctuation in the water. | 02:25:27 | |
| And then you know, if it seems like the the strategies have proven themselves, then go into that larger you know. | 02:25:31 | |
| Beach that was envisioned for the master plan, but we are looking to you know move forward that demonstration project essentially | 02:25:39 | |
| at the base. | 02:25:43 | |
| Of where these terrorist areas are working down to the beach, so that. | 02:25:48 | |
| You know, it's really set up for that beach. | 02:25:53 | |
| Improve beach in the future but. | 02:25:57 | |
| You know, we know that people go down there and use the beach now and its current state. And so you know, there's things that | 02:26:00 | |
| might even work in the interim, you know, cleaning up some of the vegetation down there on the beach and. | 02:26:06 | |
| You know booking up potential cost of like what is the cost of just bringing in some new sand? | 02:26:11 | |
| You know, seasonally each year just to create a better surface in the interim while we're working through a more permanent design. | 02:26:16 | |
| So those are things that we'll we'll be looking into and. | 02:26:21 | |
| Yeah, just like as we go through this, you know we'll and I just get very excited about the the future. | 02:26:27 | |
| Of how this area is going to look and be transformed, that's great. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming and presenting | 02:26:33 | |
| to us and we appreciate. | 02:26:36 | |
| All you're doing and we'll get you that feedback. | 02:26:40 | |
| By next week. | 02:26:43 | |
| So I just want to know one thing too I, I know it was a kind of an area of emphasis is providing seasonal like so you can get out | 02:26:44 | |
| there during the winter and so that that's why I kind of that pavilion putting that as kind of a centerpiece. | 02:26:51 | |
| They the one I've been asked is that that that I'm pretty familiar with was great. It was where the city would hold its galas that | 02:26:58 | |
| would be dances. It was it was really fun. The farmers market was there and then winter they they had they had the tubing that ran | 02:27:04 | |
| under the the the concrete that helped to support I ice skating. And believe it or not that it's it's pretty similar. I mean more | 02:27:10 | |
| humidity but from a just a temperature standpoint it's actually very similar to to to Vineyard and so there there's that potential | 02:27:16 | |
| of being able to ice skate. | 02:27:22 | |
| Right, right out on the lake, you know, under a structure that kind of protects it from the sun. So it's really exciting project. | 02:27:28 | |
| Quick comment just for Tim, he would want to say that he would want that to look like the dancehall for the heritage. | 02:27:34 | |
| Alright, committee so. | 02:27:40 | |
| Just speaking for 10 minutes, not here. | 02:27:43 | |
| And I think Morgan's point about the pavilion too, it's also a potential revenue generator. So, you know, because there's. | 02:27:45 | |
| Events and activities that you can host there, you know that's a way to sort of further the the objectives of the grant which is | 02:27:52 | |
| to increase some of that that tourism and tax base. | 02:27:58 | |
| So those are some of the features that we're trying to include as well in this first page. Thank you. Great. Thanks so much. OK, I | 02:28:03 | |
| am. We appreciate having you here. And I'm gonna give the council a 5 minute break and then we'll lead into our next discussion. | 02:28:08 | |
| Thank you. | 02:28:13 | |
| Listen. | 02:28:25 | |
| No. | 02:28:28 | |
| OK, I'm gonna go ahead and open the Vineyard City Council regular session. The time is 8:40. I'm going to start with our public | 02:28:35 | |
| comments. This is a time for anything that you would like to say to the City Council that is not currently on the agenda. If you | 02:28:41 | |
| have anything come to the podium, state your name, where you're from, and what your comments is. | 02:28:47 | |
| Thank you for putting public comments first. | 02:29:00 | |
| Daria Evans. | 02:29:03 | |
| Vineyard resonance. | 02:29:05 | |
| I would just like to. | 02:29:08 | |
| Thank. | 02:29:10 | |
| Whoever was in charge of putting in that new four way stop at Trailside Elementary. | 02:29:11 | |
| And. | 02:29:18 | |
| 4th North. | 02:29:19 | |
| How did that come about so quickly? | 02:29:20 | |
| You know what, we had a great engineer that put together a study. We worked really hard as a council to focus on that, and | 02:29:22 | |
| together as a team we put that together right. | 02:29:28 | |
| It's just looking around like, who's that great engineer? But it's him. | 02:29:35 | |
| Thank you. | 02:29:39 | |
| OK, OK. | 02:29:40 | |
| OK. Well, thank you and I really appreciate it. The Utah County Sheriff was right there at that intersection today watching. | 02:29:42 | |
| So that was really good. I like that. | 02:29:50 | |
| I would love to see the Utah County Sheriff along Main St. | 02:29:52 | |
| Watching. | 02:29:57 | |
| The traffic it's. | 02:29:58 | |
| Is there an area in particular you'd like us to review in your loop and 4th, 4th north? | 02:30:00 | |
| Yeah, those two intersections I'm here again to. | 02:30:06 | |
| And advocate for stop signals. I know that the signal is. | 02:30:09 | |
| Allocated in the 2023 budget. | 02:30:15 | |
| But I'd like to know. | 02:30:17 | |
| When it is coming in 2023. | 02:30:19 | |
| So I'm not seeing the door paperwork director saying here, so we have the signal for the 400 N and Main Street is out to bid right | 02:30:24 | |
| now we're just waiting for to close out and receive the bids for it to be built. So again. | 02:30:31 | |
| That's that's currently out and depending on the depending on the contractors to come in we expect that they're from from starting | 02:30:39 | |
| the construction. | 02:30:42 | |
| To completion of the construction is gonna be about four months, five months. | 02:30:47 | |
| How long has that been been out there that we do 3030 day period for bids to be posted because of the size of the size of the | 02:30:50 | |
| project about estimated to be about $500,000. | 02:30:55 | |
| So therefore we have a 30 day period where we're farther out. | 02:31:01 | |
| OK. | 02:31:05 | |
| It's been more than 30 days the last time I came to ask about it. | 02:31:06 | |
| Yes ma'am, no. The best thing posted for for about 30 days, so I know when I believe the last thing you might have asked about. | 02:31:11 | |
| Now there are fees of designs are being put together. | 02:31:16 | |
| And so forth. | 02:31:20 | |
| OK. So OK. Again, I apologize about the process of how some of the projects go. OK. | 02:31:22 | |
| And also. | 02:31:29 | |
| There have been a lot of comments and. | 02:31:31 | |
| People that I know. | 02:31:34 | |
| A while back you came to our community to talk about Loop Rd. and Main St. calming measures. | 02:31:36 | |
| What does ever happen to those calming measures? | 02:31:46 | |
| Yeah. So they put in a big traffic study and it was really inclusive. And then we talked about how we went through this big | 02:31:48 | |
| process about how we were going to get a stoplight on Main Street and then how they were going to upgrade the system on 400 N and | 02:31:54 | |
| what that would do to the 600 N intersection. And so it's kind of been processed and they're saying now we need to see the traffic | 02:32:00 | |
| study. | 02:32:05 | |
| And they're going through all these traffic studies for that. | 02:32:11 | |
| Does coming medications and seeing you might be able to speak more to that and kind of what we've been doing, but it's been a big | 02:32:14 | |
| process and we've definitely been working on it. | 02:32:18 | |
| That was over a year and a half ago when you came to talk to us about it and and and the traffic is just getting worse. | 02:32:23 | |
| And there have been more and more comments by other residents. | 02:32:30 | |
| East of Main Street. | 02:32:33 | |
| They're worried, OK? Scared. Yeah. You know, we've had a crossing guard. | 02:32:36 | |
| Quit. | 02:32:41 | |
| Because it's just too dangerous and. | 02:32:42 | |
| And then we had the young boy. | 02:32:44 | |
| That attends when your elementary hit hit by car. I don't know where you would sit by car, but you just feel bad. | 02:32:47 | |
| And just being a wife, a mom and grandma, I'm worried about those children. | 02:32:53 | |
| You know, crossing. | 02:32:57 | |
| From South to north on Main to get to freedom. Elements Freedom Academy. | 02:32:59 | |
| Is scary. | 02:33:04 | |
| Because. | 02:33:06 | |
| The east West traffic can't see that Hawkeye going. | 02:33:07 | |
| And those little kids can't cross north to South because there's no one there to help them. Hmm. | 02:33:11 | |
| And. | 02:33:16 | |
| We need to have some. | 02:33:18 | |
| Some use some of these problems, fix them later. I just am afraid that someone's gonna get. | 02:33:19 | |
| Really hurt, I agree. And same with the six, the six N the loop Rd. | 02:33:26 | |
| The residents try to cross to their gym. | 02:33:32 | |
| There's no crosswalk they're taking, you know, they're taking lives in their hands and. | 02:33:36 | |
| People don't signal. They just either go left or they go right or they go straight. Hmm, You don't know what's happening. And I'm | 02:33:42 | |
| just really concerned. And he seemed to think that. | 02:33:47 | |
| Sorry to cut you up. | 02:33:53 | |
| Sooner than later. Did you have anything? Yeah. One of the struggles that we face is this. I wish that we could just order the | 02:33:55 | |
| signs and go put them in. I would have painted the intersection myself and gone to Google or Amazon bought the signs, and on my | 02:34:02 | |
| weekend I would have put it in myself. And the project that you're talking about was Vineyard Elementary, you know, we work with. | 02:34:10 | |
| Another jurisdiction on that, on that intersection and just the amount of time that it takes to get people to come together on | 02:34:17 | |
| those decisions and get that process going. | 02:34:22 | |
| It's an extensive and so when we're like we're working on it and This is why Naseem said we apologize about the process because we | 02:34:28 | |
| have to put out for a study and we have to turn in all this data, then we have to go and get another engineer to review it. And | 02:34:34 | |
| and so even though we're going very fast and going as fast as we possibly can on it, it feels like it's way too long and I know | 02:34:40 | |
| that it feels like it's way too long. So we hear you. But nursing, do you have anything to add to that to kind of build on what | 02:34:46 | |
| she's talking about? So yeah. | 02:34:52 | |
| I know we've been now would find that the fire department's been working on active transportation plan like a master plan that | 02:34:58 | |
| would be put together. We see them. They receive surveys about areas Main Street along Main St. | 02:35:04 | |
| Corridor has been one of the areas where about to cross the east West pedestrian traffic. | 02:35:11 | |
| And. | 02:35:17 | |
| Part of the planning here can correct me if I'm wrong, but part of that some of the recommended recommended actions that there | 02:35:18 | |
| are. | 02:35:21 | |
| Being proposed to go forward in the 2nd lane, repurposing and putting additional crosswalks. | 02:35:25 | |
| Signalized crosswalks along Main St. as like midpark midblock crossings, those are That's a. | 02:35:32 | |
| That hope that the project is kind of a project that would have to be planned. | 02:35:40 | |
| Engineer it and then put into a put into our budget in order to ensure that we can pay for those types of improvements. The now. | 02:35:45 | |
| And we're actually being worked on. There's a whole active transportation plan underway right now. So you working on the update to | 02:35:52 | |
| that active transportation plan, Yeah. And when do you think that's gonna be? | 02:35:58 | |
| That we can learn more about it, Yeah. I can't speak out specifically about the active transportation plan. Alpine department can, | 02:36:05 | |
| but if I can go on if some of the market, if I can talk about the schools. | 02:36:10 | |
| Where we've been engaged with the Safe, Safe Routes to School programs. | 02:36:17 | |
| We actually are meeting with a consultant. | 02:36:22 | |
| Nonprofit consultant at the Specializes nationwide and safehouses. School for on next week. | 02:36:25 | |
| In regards to what type of? | 02:36:32 | |
| What type of measures that can be that can occur in order to ensure to to protect our our children when they go to and from | 02:36:34 | |
| school. Myself having school aged children, I think every comes down to not just providing some what we call engineering measure | 02:36:42 | |
| measures like stop signs and other signage and so forth. They're also comes down to just having drivers more mindful and cautious | 02:36:49 | |
| when they enter into school zones as well as and then one of the other. | 02:36:57 | |
| Things in terms of our Vineyard Elementary, we are working with Orem City. | 02:37:04 | |
| I spoke with them. I spoke with the city engineer last week, I believe, or in regards to realigning the parking the driveway into | 02:37:08 | |
| the Lakeside Park. | 02:37:14 | |
| The Riverside Park. | 02:37:20 | |
| The switch is north of that not offset intersection. | 02:37:22 | |
| And realigning that which is technically in Orange City and as well as doing some other improvements, we've contacted the. | 02:37:27 | |
| Distracting Company that's current, that's currently in Vineyard that's going around to do enhanced visual crosswalks along along | 02:37:37 | |
| all our schools. They include Environmentally, Trailside, Freedom and Franklin. | 02:37:43 | |
| We've also now received. | 02:37:50 | |
| Plumeria plants for enhanced pedestrian crossing at Center St. and Holloway Road to allow for pedestrians to Does not school | 02:37:52 | |
| crossword business to allow pedestrians safe access across Center St. | 02:37:59 | |
| Again and then we're also looking at. | 02:38:06 | |
| We've we've conducted some studies and having some discussions in regards to speed, recessing the speed limits across the city. | 02:38:09 | |
| And specifically focused on school areas. | 02:38:19 | |
| On that as well. So lots of means and measures and again, this is my personal. | 02:38:22 | |
| Opinion is a lot of those means and measures would be enhanced and will work as long as drivers are mindful about. | 02:38:30 | |
| Where you're driving and how fast you're driving as well. | 02:38:39 | |
| So can you put like the speed? | 02:38:42 | |
| Indicators how fast people are driving? Can you put some of those portable ones so they can say ohh? | 02:38:45 | |
| And that's 45 and the 25 zone. One of the things that might be beneficial for this. I don't know, Daria, if you've had a chance to | 02:38:50 | |
| meet with this team, but it might be a good opportunity to work through some of these things and maybe come up with a list that | 02:38:55 | |
| especially that your community is facing. | 02:39:00 | |
| OK. | 02:39:05 | |
| If you wanted to leave your contact information for nothing, he could contact you and you guys could work through some of these | 02:39:05 | |
| things and maybe we can bring them to the table and come over the timeline that we can present that are on it. | 02:39:11 | |
| OK. Happy to do that. OK. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. | 02:39:17 | |
| Or should I do that? I leave it back on that sheet, on that table right there. Let's see, we'll connect with you. | 02:39:20 | |
| Perfect. Any other public comments? | 02:39:27 | |
| If not, we'll go into our reports. Marty, you mentioned that you might have a report. | 02:39:31 | |
| Yeah, two things actually add. Just wanted to say the Book Plaza was awesome, well attended. I think they counted 2100. | 02:39:35 | |
| Kids are piece of the candy. I'm not sure which one. | 02:39:44 | |
| And so I really wanted to thank our events department for that. | 02:39:47 | |
| Also, just wanted to update everyone. We've had a lot of, there's a lot going on with the election coming up with the Orem School | 02:39:51 | |
| District. | 02:39:54 | |
| Vote on the Oregon ballot. I just wanted to update everyone and say that we have been communicating and meeting with legislators, | 02:39:59 | |
| with our legislator and with Orem. | 02:40:04 | |
| Just to be mindful on how this will potentially affect us. | 02:40:10 | |
| Umm. | 02:40:16 | |
| Is there anything specific you might want? | 02:40:17 | |
| Think I should. | 02:40:19 | |
| Anything that we can put out to the public to help direct you to a place that you can obtain information about this, feel free to | 02:40:49 | |
| reach out to us and our staff, and I do. I do want to add that there are quite a few questions that we get asked that really can't | 02:40:54 | |
| be answered at this point. | 02:40:58 | |
| Because there are a lot of unknowns and I think that's why we or I know that's why we've just tried to stay neutral on this topic | 02:41:04 | |
| because. | 02:41:07 | |
| There's just so much we don't know, yeah. | 02:41:11 | |
| So, OK. Thank you, Ezra. | 02:41:14 | |
| Yes. I want to start by doing this. Time over to our newest employee, Rachel. And she's in our planning department and she's hired | 02:41:18 | |
| just a little over a week ago and go ahead. So happy to have you here. Yeah. So my name is Rachel Stevens. I'm a new part time | 02:41:24 | |
| planning tech. | 02:41:30 | |
| I came over from Orem. I was a planner there and my resident with Vineyard, so I was super excited. | 02:41:37 | |
| It's so great to have somebody with that high level experience. | 02:41:45 | |
| In this position, So we really lucked out there. She works a little too fast, so we'll give her project. | 02:41:49 | |
| 10 minutes later she's like, OK, the next one. Ohh, hold on. | 02:41:54 | |
| My God. | 02:41:59 | |
| I'm grateful to have you here. Thank you so much and thanks for introducing yourself to everyone. | 02:42:03 | |
| Right, and like we mentioned before, we put the stop sign up with the Trailside Elementary crossing. We will also be restricting | 02:42:08 | |
| that intersection with the yellow and white paint to make it just more visible. We'll red paint that green once the green paints | 02:42:14 | |
| available, but we wanted to try to get something out as soon as possible while school is in session. | 02:42:19 | |
| Additionally, we'll have additional engagement on the park corridor plan, this time focusing on the east side of vineyard across | 02:42:26 | |
| the tracks. Next Thursday, November 3rd in the evening we'll have. | 02:42:32 | |
| That's so weird. But it's November next week. It feels like this, months gone by really fast. We'll have a open house at the | 02:42:37 | |
| Edgewater clubhouse and then the HBA building. | 02:42:42 | |
| To help get exposure to those residents that live on that side of the tracks. | 02:42:48 | |
| And then additionally, we're kicking off our job audits for market and organizational study. So our consultants team will be | 02:42:52 | |
| interviewing with all the staff members and reviewing their job descriptions. | 02:42:57 | |
| Over the next few weeks, we're starting those off with the directors next week. | 02:43:03 | |
| That's all. | 02:43:06 | |
| Great. | 02:43:07 | |
| We'll move under our consent items. I just need a motion. | 02:43:08 | |
| I move to approve consent item 7.1. | 02:43:14 | |
| 2nd. | 02:43:18 | |
| OK, all in favor. Aye. We'll move on to our appointments. We had our youth execute our youth council executive committee meet. We | 02:43:20 | |
| wanted to hold an election, but as they all put him through positions, none of them were running against each other. So we just | 02:43:25 | |
| accepted them in their positions. | 02:43:30 | |
| So I will go ahead and read. | 02:43:35 | |
| After names for appointments, let me pull that up really quick. | 02:43:38 | |
| It is our youth, not our youth, mayor. | 02:43:43 | |
| Alexa Davidson, our city manager, was not sold yet. Recorder can see Scott Meetings The election share from Goodmanson Service | 02:43:47 | |
| chair Natalie Welsh Activity Chair is empty at this time. Beautification chairs As for May, so I'd like to go ahead and appoint. | 02:43:54 | |
| Those individuals tonight, and I just want a motion from our council to support them. | 02:44:03 | |
| So. | 02:44:07 | |
| Second, Second by Marty on favor. Aye, alright. | 02:44:08 | |
| Our business items, we've been discussing these at length tonight and we'll go ahead and start with our accessory dwelling units. | 02:44:12 | |
| This is 10.1. | 02:44:16 | |
| Morgan, is there anything that you want to say on this council? Do you have any further questions? No. Yeah, we covered everything | 02:44:20 | |
| in the work session. Great. Just need a motion. | 02:44:24 | |
| I moved to approve. | 02:44:31 | |
| Let's see is that I moved to adopt ordinance 2022-18, Accessory Dwelling Units. Can I get a second? Second This is done by roll | 02:44:34 | |
| call twice. Amber eye Ray Marty. Yeah, Christy is excused. Alright, discussion reaction with running text amendment. Ordinance | 02:44:42 | |
| 20/22/19. This is the discussion we had on the downtown. Daria is not here, so I think her questions were fulfilled. I was going | 02:44:49 | |
| to let her add additional comments. It looks like we had stipulations brought in by our. | 02:44:57 | |
| Planning Commission. We had a few more that I'm just going to read off. | 02:45:04 | |
| And let's go through them really quick. | 02:45:09 | |
| On the demise lines that we had talked about. | 02:45:13 | |
| For six stories and higher. | 02:45:18 | |
| Buildings greater than six stories. | 02:45:20 | |
| Could we add an wording that says architectural elements make up the structure? | 02:45:23 | |
| Could be added to that little section, yeah, I I don't think we'd have any problem with adding something so that you feel like | 02:45:29 | |
| you're getting. | 02:45:32 | |
| And. | 02:45:36 | |
| Variety in the building the the the challenge I think is that. | 02:45:38 | |
| When you're building above 6 stories and you're building and with steel now instead of wood, yeah, then most of those have more of | 02:45:41 | |
| a uniform. | 02:45:45 | |
| What kind of work to it as they get taller, Yeah, so you know, a lot of this glass, so. | 02:45:50 | |
| So that the idea would be we'd kind of break up the base more and then have the tower structure more. So it's almost as if you | 02:45:56 | |
| would do that up to six stories anyway and then the rest would just be tall. Yeah. So, you know, you'd have like a. | 02:46:02 | |
| Our retail level like one or two stories, sometimes 3. | 02:46:10 | |
| And then above that would be a tower structure. | 02:46:14 | |
| Hmm. OK. | 02:46:16 | |
| OK. | 02:46:18 | |
| That sounds good. | 02:46:20 | |
| So. | 02:46:21 | |
| You're good with how it is, or you're good with chasing additional architectural designs. OK, so so maybe we say, maybe we say | 02:46:23 | |
| that we stick with the demise lines on the ground floor. | 02:46:28 | |
| Of the building up to six stories, like you were saying. Yeah, I mean, when I was thinking of six stories, I was thinking of the | 02:46:35 | |
| entire building being six stories or less, because that's kind of your cap for wood. | 02:46:40 | |
| Frame construction, which makes sense because you're trying to make a six story building look smaller with the maize lines, right? | 02:46:46 | |
| And so I totally get that if you go bigger, if you said something like, I think it's just that guarantee of architectural. | 02:46:52 | |
| Kind of elements to break it up and you kept it even in that six story. | 02:46:59 | |
| Part where or whatever, even if you were keeping it a little bit lower. And then there's lots of buildings that have like cool | 02:47:04 | |
| things around the top that just make it look. | 02:47:07 | |
| Yeah, I think that would be fine. OK and. | 02:47:11 | |
| I think it's what I'm talking about. | 02:47:14 | |
| Yeah, that's right. That's I'm just saying, I mean the the build those buildings will be approved on a. | 02:47:17 | |
| Building by building basis anyway. OK, what about building materials that you mentioned being conditional so that you don't get | 02:47:22 | |
| people? Say you sold off a property to somebody and they just decided to do all cheap metal siding. That looked horrifying. You | 02:47:28 | |
| know what I mean? Could it be conditional or does that become complex architectural metal panels so that. I mean, those aren't | 02:47:34 | |
| like corrugated metal or. OK, so you you specify the language. Yeah, architectural metal panels, if you like. If you Google that | 02:47:40 | |
| term. | 02:47:46 | |
| It'll come up with, you know, those that type of. | 02:47:52 | |
| Exterior metal cladding and I think you'll be happy with. | 02:47:56 | |
| The images you see, did anybody feel did you wanna do conditional style or do you feel comfortable with the specified language | 02:47:59 | |
| that they did? | 02:48:03 | |
| I know. | 02:48:08 | |
| What I know of those channels, they're not cheap. | 02:48:09 | |
| No this this isn't well and they looked lovely in the pictures you did and I did actually Google all yeah I looked up they were | 02:48:12 | |
| they were nice. I just thought so if there's anything that we wanted conditional on that, we would need to do it now this isn't a | 02:48:17 | |
| downgrade on on elements. This is more just a recognition that. | 02:48:23 | |
| And it's already included as an accent material. | 02:48:30 | |
| In the buildings, this is just a recognition that this is getting used more and more. | 02:48:33 | |
| As a primary cladding material, OK. And so just moving it into that category of primary building material, you know, I'll feel | 02:48:37 | |
| comfortable with that. | 02:48:41 | |
| OK. | 02:48:46 | |
| You feel good, OK? | 02:48:48 | |
| Let's see. And then we have language on the parking study. Did you wanna read that for us? | 02:48:50 | |
| Yeah. | 02:48:57 | |
| There was discussion during the Planning Commission joint session about how to resolve disputes over the parking and. | 02:49:00 | |
| So what I put together and. | 02:49:07 | |
| On this is language and I'll just read it, but in a nutshell what it is is. | 02:49:09 | |
| We make an attempt to agree. | 02:49:13 | |
| And I think in most cases we will agree. | 02:49:15 | |
| And certainly with. | 02:49:18 | |
| Current staff and current developers, I think we would agree. | 02:49:20 | |
| We've worked together on a lot of really complicated issues. | 02:49:23 | |
| And come to agreement on them. | 02:49:26 | |
| But if we don't agree, then what we would do is each would pick an expert. | 02:49:28 | |
| And then the two experts we select would pick a third individual. | 02:49:32 | |
| And that individual would perform the parking study. | 02:49:36 | |
| And so the language reads, it says. | 02:49:40 | |
| The parking study shall be completed by a qualified professional with demonstrated experience in conducting parking studies. | 02:49:41 | |
| End Quote, parking expert. | 02:49:48 | |
| The parking expert and the criteria for the parking study shall be established jointly by the city and the developer. | 02:49:50 | |
| If the city and developer cannot agree on a parking expert or the criteria for the parking study. | 02:49:56 | |
| Then. | 02:50:02 | |
| The dispute should be resolved as follows. The city and the developer shall each nominate a parking expert within 30 days from the | 02:50:03 | |
| date of a request for a parking study. | 02:50:07 | |
| The two parking experts shall consult. | 02:50:11 | |
| And select the third parking expert to conduct the parking study. | 02:50:14 | |
| The selected parking expert shall conduct the parking study using the criteria he or she develops following consultation with the | 02:50:18 | |
| city and the developer. | 02:50:22 | |
| Which study shall be used to establish a new parking requirements? | 02:50:26 | |
| Yeah, I think that's a great solution. | 02:50:33 | |
| OK, great. Nice to have an expert in dispute resolution. | 02:50:35 | |
| Alright then if there's nothing to add and if everybody feels comfortable, if just just one more this is the under the the uses. | 02:50:40 | |
| The the Planning Commission and I I I think that may have been by mistake. Maybe I wasn't quite understanding it. I listed the | 02:50:49 | |
| single household detached use. | 02:50:54 | |
| As a conditional use, but it I I think maybe the conversation was it's conditional. If you don't have the five the 5% cap, I think | 02:51:00 | |
| the the applicants would rather have the 5% cap and keep it a permitted use. We have enough design standards in our code that if | 02:51:07 | |
| there's a conditional use, there's really not much we would do with the conditional use anyway and so I think the just. | 02:51:14 | |
| Turning those back to our permitted use. | 02:51:22 | |
| As opposed to a conditional use. Well I I think it will help the process. I'm sorry, is it a permitted use now? It is. Ohh no no | 02:51:24 | |
| there. It's a non permitted use. So this will move it into a permitted use category under the 5%. Yeah, with the 5%. | 02:51:32 | |
| Percent. | 02:51:40 | |
| Instead of conditional on 5%, no. So. So the idea, the idea would be and this was kind of more to Anthony's point of. | 02:51:41 | |
| The the cap would be making sure that we're meeting the intent. | 02:51:48 | |
| The original intent of the density within the areas. | 02:51:52 | |
| And then the the. | 02:51:55 | |
| Additional product type would give us the flexibility to put those in and and. | 02:51:57 | |
| Where the conditional use came up and this was all it all was kind of happening kind of quick. | 02:52:01 | |
| But where Jamie brought the conditional use issue up was where we were talking about a single story building and adding the single | 02:52:06 | |
| story buildings in eliminating the restriction on single story buildings. | 02:52:12 | |
| And Jamie was saying, Well, hey. | 02:52:18 | |
| Instead of a, instead of a. | 02:52:20 | |
| Permitted use with a site plan review on that. Let's make that a conditional use so that you can. | 02:52:22 | |
| Put more restrictions and more conditions. | 02:52:28 | |
| On that kind of an approval to make sure that we're keeping the character. | 02:52:31 | |
| Of the neighborhoods that we originally planned for, Ohh, yes, I do have it the way that you said in my conditions. | 02:52:35 | |
| And a single story is conditional, right? | 02:52:43 | |
| So then the the single household attack 5% is 5% permitted? | 02:52:45 | |
| And the single household detached is 5% per minute. | 02:52:51 | |
| Yep, and then the. | 02:52:55 | |
| And then the single story buildings can do conditional, yeah. | 02:52:56 | |
| Yeah, I think there was one more comment on the are we OK on that one. | 02:53:00 | |
| One more comment on the parking. | 02:53:05 | |
| If so, if we agree once, we agree on the 1st. | 02:53:07 | |
| Let's say at the 500, for example, we we both agree or we don't agree and then our two consultants agree, let's use that same | 02:53:11 | |
| consultant movement. Once we've agreed, let's just use that same consultant moving forward because the only thought is. | 02:53:18 | |
| We're doing a 500. | 02:53:26 | |
| And you pick a different one, we pick a different one and you know, we're getting these varieties. Are you guys OK if we? | 02:53:27 | |
| On that. | 02:53:33 | |
| On the first well. | 02:53:34 | |
| Well, that same thing goes both ways, so I think that's why it helps us to work together on the first one to make sure. | 02:53:37 | |
| If it forces us, I think, more to compromise with each other, then how old is, who cares on this first one, we'll get the next one | 02:53:43 | |
| and and then we'll get the next one. And the other thing we're talking here is we're going to be building a lot of things here, so | 02:53:48 | |
| we're going to be talking. | 02:53:52 | |
| 10s of millions of dollars in structures on some projects and then say, oh you got to go back now because this is, this is I think | 02:53:56 | |
| retract to the whole site. | 02:54:00 | |
| Is that something you guys would be OK with? Do it for a term like? | 02:54:04 | |
| When the consultant was picked, it's like 5 year or ten year term. | 02:54:08 | |
| Yeah. Or or you could just say as long as they're still going there, yeah. | 02:54:13 | |
| Sort of been out of business as long as there's still a qualified expert or up to an increment, you could say in that project | 02:54:19 | |
| zone, you could say up to 5000 or up to 1500. | 02:54:24 | |
| You know, I I can, I can prepare language for whatever you're comfortable with. | 02:54:30 | |
| On this point I. | 02:54:34 | |
| I think the point you're making is we want to be able to adjust for change circumstances. | 02:54:36 | |
| But we don't want a moving target and we don't have to. | 02:54:40 | |
| We don't want something like this. | 02:54:42 | |
| Six times, yeah. It's to go through the process over again and picking consultants if we have one that we both agree on and we're | 02:54:44 | |
| comfortable with and. | 02:54:47 | |
| Then we just stick with them and there's consistency. | 02:54:51 | |
| The, the, the, the term idea that Ezra was mentioned, that actually makes a lot of science if you did like a five year term. | 02:54:56 | |
| Then you know, I, I don't know if you want to go beyond that, but five years, I think you're gonna have probably the same kind of | 02:55:03 | |
| do you think years is the timeline, I mean what if we have rapid growth or really slow growth, do you know what I mean? I mean? | 02:55:09 | |
| I I mean my my personal opinion is you just. | 02:55:17 | |
| Stick with them and as long as there's a qualified still qualified to do the work. | 02:55:21 | |
| Title. | 02:55:26 | |
| I think that will help us compromise in the first one too, to work together so that we know. | 02:55:26 | |
| We're getting someone you know good that we're comfortable with also just. | 02:55:31 | |
| Why are you still on that for a second? | 02:55:36 | |
| In the last meeting you mentioned the green space was 20% of 1. | 02:55:39 | |
| Moment. And then you mentioned it was 25% at one moment. | 02:55:44 | |
| And. | 02:55:48 | |
| For the seven years for the parking lot, it's it's it's a 25 percent, 25% increase, 25% of above the K2 numbers came out, so I was | 02:55:49 | |
| gonna bump it to the 25. That's alright. Yeah. | 02:55:56 | |
| That's how it's actually written in the code. Good, yeah? | 02:56:04 | |
| Alright, well, once we decide on that. | 02:56:10 | |
| I'm good either way. So did you have any suggestions? | 02:56:14 | |
| I'm comfortable with the proposal as it is. | 02:56:19 | |
| I mean a timeline, do you want like a five year timeline or just as long as we? | 02:56:21 | |
| Don't agree. I mean, unless both parties, I guess, decide that they've made a horrible mistake, I guess they could. | 02:56:27 | |
| Did you come up with something additional? But I don't. | 02:56:35 | |
| I don't need a timeline though. | 02:56:37 | |
| I was gonna put in whatever you agreed to, OK? Did you want a timeline? | 02:56:41 | |
| It's OK to want a timeline. I don't think it hurts to have a timeline. | 02:56:47 | |
| I I agree. You don't want to be bouncing back and forth and say ohh get it next time. You know what I mean I I understand that. I | 02:56:52 | |
| just. | 02:56:55 | |
| I think the timeline is fairer than we can. | 02:56:58 | |
| If we need to reevaluate, we can three or five years, five years, I think we do five years, I think, on a project this big where | 02:57:01 | |
| we're gonna be building out over. | 02:57:05 | |
| 1520 years, 10 years is probably a good timeline. | 02:57:10 | |
| To reevaluate just based on the. | 02:57:13 | |
| Absorption of the milestones that we're talking about because we're not talking about doing parking studies. | 02:57:16 | |
| On a timed basis, we're talking about doing it on a unit. | 02:57:21 | |
| Milestone bases. | 02:57:25 | |
| And so as we look at those unit milestones, I think 10 years probably more appropriate. Well, so would just go by units then if | 02:57:26 | |
| that's the case like I mean that's the more consistent realistic. | 02:57:31 | |
| Well then I think then I think you're getting into how many times do you want to start over and switch the process. That's what | 02:57:36 | |
| she's saying. Maybe you go to 5000 each time or maybe you go to half that amount each time. What? | 02:57:41 | |
| The one we pick, right, Right. I just don't want to tie the hands if something happens. And yeah, when I. | 02:57:48 | |
| I think our concern is. | 02:57:53 | |
| Switching back and forth, let's say we get the 5000 units. | 02:57:55 | |
| And we've had the same consultant tell then and then you say no or we say no. | 02:57:58 | |
| And we have our new consultant. | 02:58:03 | |
| That changes it. | 02:58:05 | |
| And we've already built out much of the section of the city. I just don't know how you go back at that point if it's radically, | 02:58:07 | |
| you know. So if you have the same consultant, they're looking at the same criteria every time. | 02:58:12 | |
| Umm. | 02:58:17 | |
| That'd be my cause. | 02:58:19 | |
| You get. So I don't know how many units we're gonna end up with. Maybe it is only 5, but let's say it's 8 or 9 or 10. Or how about | 02:58:21 | |
| this? And it gives us some flexibility to. | 02:58:25 | |
| You know we're talking about. | 02:58:30 | |
| Large structures. | 02:58:32 | |
| Dense development. It doesn't happen overnight, so I think a 5 year old interval is a lot shorter than we. | 02:58:34 | |
| Are you still if it were a single family development? | 02:58:40 | |
| So. | 02:58:44 | |
| This is to avoid the need to raise like a parking expert comma The process of selecting a parking expert shall not be made more | 02:58:45 | |
| frequently. | 02:58:48 | |
| Then at five year intervals. | 02:58:52 | |
| Sure. | 02:58:56 | |
| Yeah, I think we prefer tan, but it it's five because seven to be consistent with the landscaping. So let's say we start these | 02:58:58 | |
| buildings right now, right these first, this first building we have that's a two year project before we start leasing that | 02:59:03 | |
| project. | 02:59:07 | |
| And that's going to take a, you know 12 to 18 months? | 02:59:12 | |
| So all of a sudden you're 3 1/2 years before that first project is done. | 02:59:15 | |
| And then you do a study that, yeah, it just. | 02:59:18 | |
| Probably decide we're going into the units. It feels like 10 years is probably and that we're not going to have the whole thing | 02:59:22 | |
| built out in 10 years. So that gives us time to switch the consultant if we need to, but we're not in. | 02:59:27 | |
| In this process with although you don't need the consultant, I mean the the way that that, Jamie said. I I like that because I I | 02:59:33 | |
| think what it does is. | 02:59:36 | |
| Well, so if you're hiring a firm in five years, let's say there's a lot of turnover. And so even though it's the same firm you're | 02:59:40 | |
| you're dealing, you're dealing with with different engineers or planners, whoever's doing that, that that analysis. But but but | 02:59:46 | |
| then it lets the city kind of have that option if if they, you know, if they want to make a change at that time. | 02:59:53 | |
| But they could have all the same people and you know everyone feels comfortable at the same principles are are gonna be working | 03:00:01 | |
| on. Yeah. Like you don't have to for 15 years if you don't want to with that statement. Yeah, yeah, I mean you could just keep the | 03:00:05 | |
| same on the whole time if you want. | 03:00:10 | |
| OK. | 03:00:16 | |
| 7 1/2. | 03:00:19 | |
| Then that feels like the phone number that was just randomly put in here feel like, yeah, like, let's go for seven, right? I can | 03:00:21 | |
| compromise, OK? | 03:00:25 | |
| Seven years. | 03:00:29 | |
| Sorry. | 03:00:31 | |
| OK. | 03:00:32 | |
| Great. | 03:00:33 | |
| I need a motion. | 03:00:34 | |
| Who? | 03:00:36 | |
| Morgan has them. We stated them in the record. Do you feel comfortable with how they were stated in the record? OK. | 03:00:37 | |
| I say to them and she put them in the record, though. Yes, and I have them written down for Pam. | 03:00:45 | |
| So. | 03:00:50 | |
| You're welcome. | 03:00:52 | |
| There's no other. | 03:00:55 | |
| OK. | 03:00:56 | |
| I move that we recommend the approval. | 03:00:58 | |
| OK. | 03:01:01 | |
| Adopt. | 03:01:03 | |
| Ordinance 2022 Dash 19. | 03:01:05 | |
| Downtown Vineyard Special Purpose District with the following modifications as stated on the record. | 03:01:09 | |
| Can I get a second second? | 03:01:16 | |
| OK, this is done by roll call Tice. Amber I yay Marty, hi and. | 03:01:18 | |
| Christy is excused. | 03:01:23 | |
| Alright. | 03:01:25 | |
| Perfect. I just need a motion to adjourn. | 03:01:26 | |
| And the second all in favor. Aye. Thanks for coming. Thank you. | 03:01:29 |