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Call to Order/Invocation/Inspirational Thought/Pledge of Allegiance   Vice-Chair Bryce Brady called to order at01pm. Planning Commissioner Nathan Steele led an invocation and the pledge of allegiance.  
Public Comments PC   No public comments were made.  Consent Items  1. There are no consent items.    
Business Items  2.
Rezone and Zoning Text Amendment of the5 s Geneva Road property (Resolved)   This item has been resolved as the applicant withdrew their application. There was no public hearing.  
Work Session  1.
2024 Zoning Text Amendment Overhaul
Senior Planner Cache Hancey provided a presentation for the Zoning Text Amendment and provided a background of the whole project.
Senior Planner Hancey discussed the District Use Table with background. He noted the suggested changes: Check casing- Conditional use in the Regional Commercial Zone, and Mobile Food Court- Conditional in the Regional Mixed-Use Zone. He explained where and what the Regional Commercial Zone and the Regional Mixed-Use Zone.
Senior Planner Hancey also included Allowed Temporary Uses and Development Standards. He noted that temporary uses are those established for a maximum of days. The changes Senior Planner Hancey included were: exemption for shaved ice and farmer’s markets (allowed from AprilOctober), requires parking standards, and requires restoration of property after hours of permit expiration.
Commissioner Steele noted that these are very specific, and he recommends language that can be a bit more vague and seasonal. He recommended something like a mobile food vendor. Vice-chair Brady added seasonal language to that suggestion.   Senior Planner Hancey provided more information on the changes.
Planning Commissioner Graden Ostler requested clarification. Commissioner Steele noted this is when someone pulls a permit for a special event or a temporary use. Senior Planner Hancey provided an example for understanding. Senior Planner Hancey noted that this is for a temporary use City wide.
Commissioner Ostler clarified anywhere.   Senior Planner Hancey noted the timeline and where the exemptions would come in.
Commissioner Steele asked why this is being brought up. He discussed that these businesses are running without being regulated. The intent was to create standards.   Commissioner Steele noted that it makes sense to him, but the restoration after hours may not be reasonable especially for improved parking surfaces.
Planning Commissioner Natalie Harbin entered at10pm.   Vice-Chair Brady discussed the permanent dirt lot by00 N. He asked about the meaning of dustless.   Senior Planner Hancey responded in saying the language they have written: “such as gravel or asphalt”.
Commissioner Steele commented that the cleanup timeline is a bit strict. Senior Planner Hancey made a recommendation of language.   Community Development Director Morgan Brim asked if this time period was standard.   Senior Planner Hancey said yes.   Scale for a deposit or bond was discussed.
Senior Planner Hancey noted that if someone trashed it, that Vineyard could follow with the code enforcement measures.   Director Brim initiated conversation on temporary uses and drive-thrus.
Discussion about bonds and finances for them ensued.   Vice-Chair Brady asked if it was days consecutive or days in a year.   Senior Planner Hancey said days in a calendar year.   Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour entered at16pm.   Timeline specifics were discussed. Language suggestions were made.
Commissioner Steele added language about dust control rather than dust-less.   Vice-Chair Brady conversated with Planning Commissioner Natalie Harbin to catch her up to speed. Senior Planner Hancey provided information.
Senior Planner Hancey moved to Temporary Use Supplementary Standards. He added that they are development standards for specific uses. Senior Planner Hancey added that they are looking to require a site plan that is administratively approved and be a part of the temporary use permit. The changes included were: site plan required with application for farmers markets and firework stands (administrative approval), and maybe carnivals. He discussed the farmers markets, firework stands, and carnivals.   Commissioner Steele said that anything at grove park is not included in this definition because it’s a public park.   Senior Planner Hancey responded in saying yes and providing examples
Commissioner Harbin asked if this could be retroactively amended because of the minimal amount of land.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that this could be why we create standards. He noted that we could hone in on a specific type of carnival.
Vice-Chair Brady asked if they would have to get an events permit even if it was on private property.   Senior Planner Hancey affirmed. He added that at that point they would go through the review point.   Director Brim clarified that some of them do not require them.   Vice-Chair Brady asked if it was when it was under a certain number of people.
Director Brim provided an example.   Senior Planner Hancey suggested a note.   Director Brim noted that if it requires traffic control or impeded public right of way then it could call for a permit.   Vice-Chair Brady added that defining things could get messy.   Senior Planner Hancey added that it could be divided by events with impact.   Commissioner Steele noted to have a catch all. He asked if we had definitions for all of those words: farmers marker, carnival, and fireworks stands.   Senior Planner Hancey noticed that he would check on that.
Senior Planner Hancey introduced Temporary Use Exemptions. He described these as uses that may be temporary but do not require a permit. He highlighted changes regarding garage and yard sales.   Commissioner Steele noted his opinion on yard sale signs. Senior Planner Hancey noted that this is in sign code but that he could add something in this section as well.
Senior Planner Hancey moved to the home occupations section. He defined it as a secondary use of a home and added the changes made. These included definitions, aggregate impact for multiple licenses, group instruction, noncompliance, and multifamily parking requirements. He discussed noncompliance with medical practitioners and animal healthcare; however, telehealth is different because it is non-impact.   There were no comments on this.
Drive thru facilities were the next section. Senior Planner Hancey included the changes: queuing lanes can not be located near the primary pedestrian entrance, requires a traffic impact study for every new drive-thru, and no longer allows drive-thrus to be permitted in front of a building.   Commissioner Steele asked if this would be applicable to every zoning district.   Senior Planner Hancey said yes, it would be city wide.   Commissioner Steele asked about a recent discussion about a drive-thru.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that they are requiring a traffic impact study for that project and that he would check and make sure it is not conflicting.
Commissioner Steele noted the language on the paper Senior Planner Hancey provided. He commented that it should be clear and consistent throughout the code.   Director Brim agreed.   Vice-Chair Brady also agrees. He asked what we are defining as the front.   Senior Planner Hancey noted the front facade and acknowledged the difficulty. He added that they will look into that more and put together a definition.
Director Ghandour commented on the traffic impact study to provide language for clarity and variety.   Commissioner Steele noted that his concern is he does not want to create any unnecessary burdens and that a new study would be needed for further development.   Director Ghandour gave another example.   Commissioner Steele suggested language for certain scenarios.   Director Brim used a current drive-thru for example.   Commissioner Steele summarized the discussion that calls for an analysis from a traffic engineer. He recommended to not have overly vague language.   Senior Planner Hancey provided examples of processes.
Senior Planner Hancey added Check Cashing and Other Services. The changes included development standards for separation requirements, limit quantity based on population, and included definitions.
Senior Planner Hancey moved to the mobile food court. This included changes in development standards for site plans with bathrooms, parking, trash, etc. and no drive-thrus. Other changes included requirements for conditional use permits and included definitions.   Vice-Chair Brady noted that if they came with a plan a drive-thru could be fine.   Director Brim discussed the requirements for the drive-thrus that vendors might try to bypass.     Senior Planner Hancey discussed other requirements that we do not want to be bypassed.
Commissioner Steele noted to not say no drive-thrus but to hold them to the standards because they can be very successful.   Director Brim noted that it could be added as a temporary use and provided language.   Vice-Chair Brady added that it should held to consistent standards.   Senior Planner Hancey asked if there was something they wanted to see in terms of standards?   Director Brim added that they had a want to provide a mobile food court by the beach. He suggested a parking analysis and added that it would be hard to have a blanket parking requirement.   Commissioner Steele noted that the discussion about this could take a long time. He stressed that he wants to structure it correctly.
Senior Planner Hancey noted that we want feedback from successful ones and the perspective of food trucks.   Vice-Chair Brady noted a suggestion for spaces provided by the city at parks for food trucks.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that there have been conversations initiated to help this motivation.   Commissioner Steele brought up a successful example.   Vice-Chair Brady noted that we should look into it being in both public and private spaces.   Senior Planner Hancey added that Vineyard is re-examining the policy to see what Vineyard can do.
Commissioner Steele noticed that because of its seasonal use the infrastructure needed is good at a public place.   Vice-Chair Brady suggested to not limit ourselves with the public space.   Director Ghandour commented on infrastructure feasibility.
Senior Planner Hancey moved to short term rentals. He discussed the suggested changes including allows for rentals less than days, requires license held by owner, establishes enforcement language, no duplex rentals allowed, and records management required.   Senior Planner Hancey discussed the license types even further, introduced indifferent types. Typeis for single family homes where there would be a parking requirement of parking stalls. They would have a maximum number of guests. In this type, you can not have an Accessory Dwelling Unit and a Short term Rental. Additionally, there would only belicense issued per homes in a neighborhood.   Vice-Chair Brady asked how much it would cost to get a license.   Senior Planner Hancey answered in saying that they have not determined a price.   Vice-Chair Brady asked if you really did not want one in your neighborhood then you can just apply.
Director Brim added that we would have to analyze the financial state for the cost.   Commissioner Ostler noted his experience with his Accessory Dwelling Unit.   Vice-chair Brady recalled this conversation from a while back.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that someone could apply for a license, but it would not be issued until it met the requirements.   Vice-Chair Brady noted that the question of should they be allowed has been brought up in the past.
Director Brim added where the city could see an economic benefit. He also discussed a third type that was not included in this presentation.   Commissioner Harbin asked about the economics behind it especially with the Olympics in the coming years.   Senior Planner Hancey added that we can not get that benefit right now. And enforcement is difficult and takes a lot of time.   Director Brim added some economics and lifestyle of the third type.
Senior Planner Hancey noted that this could fit in the type He briefed what this type addresses: multifamily housing, requires a conditional use permit, requires on-site management, limited to of units within development, and maximum number of guests.   Commissioner Ostler asked about the owner occupancy.   Senior Planner Hancey said this would not require that. That would be a type He mentioned that Vineyard prefers to keep it as housing stock. He discussed housing affordability.   Director Brim noted that it cuts into rental stock.   Vice-chair Brady asked about the owner occupancy with one license.   Senior Planner Hancey asked for clarification.   Vice-chair Brady added some can rent out a room. He noted his experience.     Senior Planner Hancey acknowledged the documentation records.   Commissioner Steele noted it can get messy asking for documentation.   Vice-chair Brady added the issue with variation.   Director Brim said it was unenforceable.   Commissioner Harbin asked who was enforcing it.
Senior Planner Hancey discussed enforcement options.   Commissioner Harbin noted that it is already a problem and that something needs to be put in place.   Director Brim discussed the code enforcement process.   Senior Planner Hancey added thestrike situation in code enforcement.   Senior Planner Hancey noted his email could be a source for feedback for this text amendment as well.
Commissioner Steele discussed enforcement language.   Director Brim noted that the standard may be time limited. He suggested discussing it with Jaime (the city attorney).   Vice-chair Brady asked what happens if they continue after theirstrikes.   Senior Planner Hancey noted code enforcement in action.   Commissioner Harbin clarified that we should respond to concerns by recommending reports.   Senior Planner Hancey said yes and noted how and what could be used as evidence for catching things.   Commissioner Steele provided his experience with legality.   Discussion ensued.   Director Brim emphasized to recommend reports.   Discussion ensued about report options and how it is being used currently.
Commissioner Steele commented on recommended changes and suggested to stay out of the messy documentation and limits for numbers.   Director Brim added an experience he had.   Vice-chair Brady suggested that limiting it may help the honesty of the system as a whole.   Senior Planner Hancey noted we could base it off bedrooms.   Director Brim commented on how his experience with short term rentals found their numbers for requirements. He discussed the reality of code enforcement.   Vice-Chair Brady suggested having it as informational.
Commissioner Steele clarified that the limitation on an Accessory Dwelling Unit or a short term rental is to not reduce our housing stock.   Senior Planner Hancey said yes.   Director Brim noted that Vineyard gets in trouble with the state.   Senior Planner Hancey clarified that its an ADU license or a short term rental.   Director Brim provided details on why.
Commissioner Steele clarified that each community could haveshort term rentals plus one for every homes. He asked what the definition was for community.   Discussion about bundles for number limits ensued.
Commissioner Stele discussed typelicenses and appreciated resort-based developments.   Director Brim noted we could make a third type for something like that.   Commissioner Steele questioned how to track the number of guests.
Director Brim retouched on the room discussion and what they would rent out.   Discussion ensued about the number of guest allocation and intention of short term rentals.
Vice-chair Brady asked about onsite management and owner occupancy.   Senior Planner Hancey noted what language we could add for flexibility.   Discussion about housing stock and affordability ensued.
Commissioner Ostler asked about the benefit of requiring an owner living within miles.   Discussion ensued about management practices.   Senior Planner Hancey added a suggestion for management or onsite property management.   Vice-chair Brady commented on typeto require a parking pass.   Senior Planner Hancey asked if dedicated parking stalls would be sufficient?   Discussion ensued about parking for typeand type
Senior Planner Hancey moved to the next section of parking. The highlighted changes included: screening language added to be consistent with other sections and the remainder of the chapter be reviewed by the consultant.
Landscaping was a section addressed by Senior Planner Hancey. These changes included: removed outdated language and included a definition of “weed”.
Definitions were a section addressed. Senior Planner Hancey included check cashing and other credit services, weed, and mobile food court in the changes.   Commissioner Steele asked if there is a definitions for mobile food vendors.   Senior Planner Hancey said no.   Director Brim added that we can do a major definition addition.   Commissioner Brim asked about the hammer/ gable.      Senior Planner Hancey noted that he is always open to feedback.   Resident Daria Evans was prompted for her questions.
Ms. Evans asked for clarification on the Regional Commercial zone.   Senior Planner Hancey presented those sections on a map.   Ms. Evans asked about medical practitioners and if that included massage.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that massage was not included and that we will tighten up the definition.
Ms. Evans asked about farmers markets and arts and crafts festivals and if it would be allowed in Utah city.   Director Brim said yes.   Vice-chair Brady added that the discussion was about private spaces.   Ms. Evans asked about mobile food courts and her experience with them.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that is what these standards are for.   Commissioner Steele noted that the intent was to be more defined.
Ms. Evans asked about typeparking for short term rentals.   Senior Planner Hancey clarified that a townhome or condo would not work unless they could have onsite management.
Ms. Evans voiced a concern about check cashing. She asked if there are businesses wanting to come to Vineyard?   Senior Planner Hancey noted that we are planning for the future to protect ourselves.
Ms. Evans asked about a dry cleaner.   Senior Planner Hancey said he is always open to suggestions.
Commissioner Steele asked about state laws on HOA and short term rentals.   Senior Planner Hancey made a note to look into that.   Discussion ensued.  
Staff, Commission, and Committee Reports  4. Property Rights Training   Senior Planner Hancey explained the training that will be coming in January.   Planning Technician Madison Reed noted that the date is still being decided but wanted to notice the commissioners.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that the calendar will be coming up.   Director Brim noted that it was national planner month. He asked if there was anything positive that could be recommended to notice.
Senior Planner Hancey gave updates on APA conference. He highlighted Planner Anthony Fletcher contributions, parking, and planning for kids and teens. He briefed Commissioner Harbin on conferences.   Planning Technician Reed discussed getting emails for the planning commissioners.
Director Ghandour appreciated Staff Engineer Patrick James. He also provided an update on the transportation master plan. Director Ghandour also provided an update the review process of the standards and specifications for infrastructure. He added that the streets team grinded out the street to make it smoother by the lake.  
Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at45pm. minutes certified COMPLETE ON: Novemberh,24 CERTIFIED (NOTICED) BY: Madison Reed, Planning Technician
Welcome everybody. Today is October 16th, 2024. It is 6:01 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. Uh, we'll get 00:00:02
things going and they can still invocation. 00:00:09
We'll do the information about that. 00:00:15
We can be here together and discuss the needs of our communities and we create them out so that we can review and kind of one 00:00:20
another as we discuss these needs and come up with pushing the recommendations that better serve our interests. We're grateful for 00:00:27
our multi lending to Jesus Christ. 00:00:35
I'm doing it in two reply. I'm going to be out of the United States of the United States of America. 00:00:48
Thank you very much. How much is 10100 and Justice for All? 00:00:56
That's nice. All right, we'll move right into public comment. Sorry. You got anything? 00:01:03
I just about the work sounds good. All right, umm and we'll move right into business items 4.2 the rezone and zoning text 00:01:09
amendment of the 145 thousand property. This has actually been resolved. So they pulled their application. Yes, they pulled the 00:01:17
application. So there's actually not going to be anything today do any of the different. 00:01:25
That's working. OK. Uh, then we'll move right into work, right into the work session for the 2024 zoning text amendment overhaul. 00:01:35
We wanna do umm, so this is kind of the first take it at some of the sections we wanted to review with you. Umm, and with this 00:02:12
being a work session, umm, we see this environment, you know, whenever you do have comments, please stop me and you know, provide 00:02:18
any kind of suggestion feedback inside anything like that and I'm happy to entertain that. 00:02:24
Umm, here's a summary. Umm, also just a little background I, I put in that bottom right corner to the numbers, so like 1512050 00:02:31
umm, and just what the numbers refer to often times, uh, in planets weekly, you mentioned these things about one extent and what, 00:02:36
what that means. So the first 2 numbers is going to be the title. In this case it's, it's the zoning code. Umm, the second two 00:02:42
numbers are going to be the chapter. So we, we group umm, different sections into these chapters and then the last three numbers 00:02:48
are going to be the section so. 00:02:53
Umm but yeah, I will just go through each one of these. Like I said, feel free to to stop and and ask any questions or anything 00:03:00
like that or provide suggested. 00:03:04
So first one, umm, this is used table, umm, so the, the distance use table is just a, a table, umm, that that shows the city and 00:03:10
our planners and applicants the, the different allowed uses that we have in the in the city in each zone. Umm, the suggested 00:03:17
changes so far as we're looking at adding two different uses of check cashing, umm, which would be conditional use in the regional 00:03:25
commercial zone and then mobile food court, which would be conditional use in the regional execution. Umm, I'll get. 00:03:32
Definition umm later on as I have a, a breakdown of of what these these pieces are umm, and if you have questions, the, the 00:03:39
regional commercial zone right now is essentially, uh, to the northeast of 800 N and the partner station. A lot of that is 00:03:46
regional commercial as well as where the umm across the street from. 00:03:53
So. So not not cooked. Oh yeah. 00:04:02
Over there, it's also regional commercial, and then they make the regional mix to use that think like just each side of the Hill 00:04:08
Rd. track on Mill Rd. Most of that bizarre. I mean, umm, yeah, yeah, the yard. 00:04:15
OK, so, uh, the next section is going to be allowed temporary uses and development standards. Temporary use is just any use that 00:04:22
an applicant, uh, proposes that less than 60 days. Umm, so we included exemptions in this for shaved ice in farmers markets, umm, 00:04:28
that we would allow those from April first to October 31st without, umm, you know, going beyond that, that 60 days, it kind of 00:04:34
falls outside. Temporary is also not affirmative. So we felt creating exemptions with, with uh, supplementary development 00:04:40
standards for those uses. 00:04:46
Yeah, yeah. 00:04:52
Uh, yeah. So my question is, those are very specific, umm, particularly shaped ice, umm, and I totally understand the need for 00:04:56
umm, temporary or seasonal exemptions and that I totally support. I just worry if someone comes up with an Italian ice chat 00:05:04
because we think shaved ice, so it's not permitted or we need to go back and update the code yet again. 00:05:12
I'm thinking some kind of mobile food vendor, you know, something that's written a bit more vague so we don't need to come back 00:05:21
and update it. Yeah. 00:05:25
Kind of food truck thrown into that category. OK, I like that. 00:05:33
Property to states before they were there after 24 hours after the department expires. 00:06:09
Where this is any kind of pulled up permission special event or a temporary, yeah. So if you think yeah, yeah. If you think about 00:06:17
like a lot of people across from the HBA building, we have that dirt lock there. There's a lot of people that that put a firework 00:06:24
stand or umm, you know, they could put up a shade back stand there, umm, as a temporary use, umm. 00:06:31
And so this is citywide. Anything that that you want to do is a temporary use would have to follow these these standards. 00:06:39
Certainly images, for example, a small business owner, temporary seasonal, uh, approaching. 00:06:47
A vacant lot and it's been there anywhere. That's what we're applying yeah yeah. And currently they, they, most businesses, most 00:06:55
temporary uses are going to be 60 days maximum, right. Umm, and so that's where the exec exemptions would come in where, umm, you 00:07:02
know, we did a generic dessert truck or something like that and, and uh, uh, farmers markets, they could go beyond those 60 days. 00:07:10
So it kind of creates more of this like temporary seasonal use, umm. 00:07:17
While just keeping it in that temporary use category. 00:07:24
Yeah, so. 00:07:28
Umm, these more or less temporary uses to kind of establish a restaurant or whatever without providing. 00:08:01
Yeah, yeah, I mean, they have to go through the work to do tenant improvement. They have staff rooms, they have trash cans, they 00:08:09
have all these things. Meanwhile, somebody could just pull up in a truck and stuff and or I say guys or whatever it may be. So we, 00:08:14
we have seen, uh, had some complaints and so we just wanted to, to get ahead of that thing with farmers markets. We've, we've 00:08:19
heard a lot from, umm, the Utah City folks about the potential of putting in a farmers market in the Utah city, like in the 00:08:24
promenade or something. 00:08:29
Creating those standards so that in the future, if we do have that, we have it in place and we aren't having to react to to 00:08:35
something like that. So and, and the other thing I should say we, we did a lot of benchmarking umm, and just looked at other 00:08:41
cities codes, right and uh found that this is pretty much the standard throughout the, the region was, umm, having these 00:08:47
exemptions in place in these requirements. OK, umm. 00:08:53
Makes total sense to me. Uh, I'm just hoping that our expectation of restoring everything. 00:09:01
Back to its original condition within 24 hours is reasonable, particularly if we're asking them to make a quote. Improved parking 00:09:09
surface that is deskless. Umm, OK. I just wanna make sure we're getting reasonable. I don't wanna be overly burdensome for 00:09:16
something that overall is a benefit to our community, such as our farmers market. It gets people out and active. Umm, I don't 00:09:22
know. I mean, I'm not being the minority on that. I agreeable. 00:09:29
All right, I, I just kinda help to think about the, uh, approval that we just made on 1600 N for the Event Center there and they 00:09:37
have a dirt parking lot. OK, so how do we define? Yeah, yeah. So how do we define desk list exactly? Umm, I, I do believe it's, I 00:09:44
mean in here it says such as gravel or asphalt. Mm-hmm. Umm, so that, that's essentially kind of the standard that we'd be looking 00:09:51
at. They, they could potentially pose something that's similar to CRA. 00:09:59
Like a decomposed grant or whatever. So this is what we're wanting to do. Umm, and, and I'd be fine with that. It's just asking 00:10:07
them picking that up within 24 hours is in my opinion, a huge ask. OK, yeah. And maybe I could put in language into that. Uh, the, 00:10:13
the cleaning up section where it's more of like removes any nuisances such as trash or umm, sometimes you'll have like if people 00:10:19
put up a sign or a tent or something, they put stakes in the ground and they don't remove those stakes. They can create like a 00:10:25
tripping hazards or, uh. 00:10:30
Tire or something so I I could include that one with more just like cleaned up nuisances of trash or debris. That would be better. 00:10:37
I I like that definitely. 00:10:41
Perfect. I'm always amazed that the, the feedback I get, like I read through this, I'm like, oh, you know, this is perfect. And 00:10:49
then it's like, Oh yeah, there's a lot of things that, that we missed, but it's healthy to have these, these conversations and 00:10:56
dialogue consciousness. So other cities that have maybe a longer time period, No, 24 hours was pretty standard. Umm, there, there 00:11:03
are some cities that I, I didn't include this, but some cities will have a, uh, temporary permit bond. 00:11:10
That they have to pay for they'll, they'll give the city like $500 umm, and then the city will get that back to them after the 00:11:17
the, you know, we can go out and approve that it's been cleaned up and, and for January yeah and the, the issue with that, it does 00:11:24
just create a lot more work, right. It means that we now have to create this new process. You have to amend the fee schedule, 00:11:30
which is things that we can do umm, if we're interested in pursuing that umm I, I. 00:11:37
Seen a scale of deposits everywhere I've seen that's required deposit, but then the scale changes based off it if it's a minor or 00:11:44
a danger special event. I don't know if we're gonna get into those leads right now, if we're at the point yet where we need to 00:11:49
differentiate between major and minor. 00:11:53
When it comes to the temporary from what we're talking about right now. 00:11:59
Umm, it's a maximum period of 60 days, yes, right, OK. 00:12:05
Yeah, and, and I imagine right now that we, we just haven't had the issue. But if, if somebody did, let's say they, they have a 00:12:11
temporary use and they just kind of track the property, you just go to our normal code enforcement measures where we would send 00:12:18
them letters of violation that, that includes fees, Umm, and, and we also do have the ability to abate the issue, umm, if needed 00:12:24
and send them the bill for the, the cost to, to do that. Umm, but we, we could look into doing a bond. 00:12:31
Probably something to UMM that we need to do it to tap our uses is decide how we want to handle UMM. 00:12:39
The drive throughs so if you look at. 00:12:45
One of these sections or maybe it's in the mobile 2 sports section addresses. I'm sorry the staples backward by me. So that's how 00:12:53
a printer does it. Cash described the bond versus maybe a deposit. Would that even be a possibility Yeah it's essentially the same 00:13:02
thing. Umm the bond They would generally like get to like a lender somewhere and then they just yeah insurance and provider. 00:13:12
And then they provide that proof to us and say this person has deposited this money into our account for this purpose. And then 00:13:22
what happens is after the inspection, we allow them to release that balance and give them that that money back to traditionally 00:13:28
allow bonds for less than $1000. 00:13:33
Umm, I, that's kind of outside room. I I, we don't deal with them too much, especially since we've kind of removed our ability to 00:13:40
bond for landscaping. 00:13:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:49
No, but I I think at least what I found in temperament is that there is a bonds to see if the money online, it definitely 00:13:53
encourages umm absolutely a better result. And I think if it is limited to debris, snakes, nuisances, 24 hours is totally 00:13:58
reasonable, Yeah. 00:14:04
Is there a maximum of 60 consecutive days or 60 days in a year or Uh, yeah, I believe it is 60 days in a calendar year is how it's 00:14:41
said. OK. Because I, I believe that one of the, the most frequent, umm, uses of these, these temporary use permits is fireworks 00:14:47
stands, umm, where they are open, you know, that's actually state law, what they can be open and selling stuff for, but they apply 00:14:53
for these and then they're open the first part of July and then the last part of June. And then sometimes they'll open up around 00:14:59
New Year's. 00:15:05
So if I wanted to run a year long farmers market that's available every Saturday that works at 52 Saturdays, yes yeah, I guess 00:15:11
that works. So how would that So how would a situation like that work for the 24 hour permit expiration? So they just have to 00:15:19
reapply for every single umm, I I should talk to Kelly. I'll try to Kelly about that. She's our business license person. Well, she 00:15:26
just tells me to go inspect. Usually the the the fireworks stands we've seen and then here they just they will. 00:15:33
Not take down their site until after the July 24th date right now. And then we go to our inspection. So it's within that 60 days. 00:15:41
I don't, I don't know if we've had any set up for New Year's or not. Yeah, if we care. And I'm not saying if we do, we're not. 00:15:48
Umm, I've also seen ordinances that say for a maximum period of 60 days. 00:15:55
Including no more than anyone stretch of time longer than consecutive. You know, something like that. You could I, I think our 00:16:04
code has something, if I wasn't using the free division, I could look into it further. But I, I do think our code has something 00:16:09
like that. But I'm sure, I'm sure there is somewhere in the definition. So yeah. 00:16:15
Umm and the last one on this. 00:16:23
Maybe it would get rid of some of my concerns just getting rid of the word just list and have parking just include an element of 00:16:26
dust control in their proposal. 00:16:31
OK, Umm, yeah. So we're just, this is just a work session. It's the first part of it. 00:16:38
Yeah, this is just a work session. We're just going over, umm, some of the zoning checks, uh. 00:16:47
Nathan. 00:16:58
I think I don't forget. 00:17:00
Yeah, we're, we're just going over the sections of zoning codes that, that we found throughout the year that we're wanting to make 00:17:03
some changes to work. But yeah, we, we do have, there are some pretty, uh, hot topics that we'll see. I think it's towards the 00:17:07
end. 00:17:12
You may not believe, OK, OK, so the next section is supplementary standards. Umm, these, these are some uh, like development 00:17:21
standards for specific pieces. Umm, so we are looking into requirements site plans, umm, that would be administratively approved, 00:17:28
not necessarily given to the defining Commission, just be part of that temporary use permit. 00:17:35
Umm, it would require site plans for farmers markets and fireworks stands. Umm, that would just show us their parking and show us 00:17:43
the trash. It would show us restrooms, these types of things that, that we generally aren't uh, getting right now on these 00:17:49
temporary use permits. Umm, and then the other one that, that I just wanted to maybe have a brief conversation on is carnivals. I 00:17:55
have seen a lot of cities put carnivals and specific, uh, development standards with those. Umm, I, I don't imagine when we'll get 00:18:01
too many private property. 00:18:07
Are you carnivals in the city? Most of the time it's like dinner days where we're going through special event permit and we're 00:18:13
happy to treat it that way. But we're also OK to look into creating this section in temporary use as well. But we we right now we 00:18:20
haven't really done any research on that. Yeah. Anything on growth part even if it's by a private entity because it's on a public 00:18:27
park. It's not necessarily in this definition. Yeah and and and they go through a separate. 00:18:34
We have an event process that that seems like the intervals go through where they're, they're making sure that we get approvals 00:18:42
for insurance and everything like that for carnivals. So the impact and parking plans for them. 00:18:47
I remember somebody wanted to do that with you resurrected me, like come in with it. Umm, just it's because we don't really have a 00:18:54
lot of land here because we can do that. But umm, it was really high important to me. Didn't do that. I guess that now, now that 00:18:59
you. Yeah. 00:19:03
And they set up a full carnival esque and farmers market and there were many, many other issues that came with it, but it caused 00:19:10
quite a an issue. Yeah, yeah. And that. And that's, that's a great point to, you know, why we could create these things. Maybe 00:19:15
there's something where it's like. 00:19:20
Neighborhood car or something like that. Umm, whereas because I, I don't believe in fitting more processes for like vineyard base. 00:19:26
But you're right there. There's another, there's a big carnival that happens every year in form. It's somebody private property 00:19:31
where they bought an extra lot and they essentially turned it into this carnival once a year. And you know, they really do have to 00:19:36
like shut down the whole neighborhood because it's just past umm. 00:19:41
Under a certain amount of people, right. Uh, for you, even that we, uh, we had someone else talking about potentially doing like 00:20:17
those festivals, umm, but it would be on private property. And so she, she's gonna look into that. We might wanna maybe, yeah, we 00:20:24
could even maybe just put a, a note here that says carnivals and festivals require special parts on it. Yeah. And she was not 00:20:31
mentioning if it requires like, uh, traffic control and public driveway and that, that could trigger, umm, a permit. 00:20:38
Umm, anything that could affect right of way or if it's on public property, state lands, that kind of stuff, umm, but it gets a 00:20:45
little bit more, umm, unclear on traffic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, defining stuff can be difficult too, because, I mean, we'll have to 00:20:52
say something that's testable or just the party, house party. Yeah, yeah. So I, I think the impact is a good way of doing that 00:21:00
work. It does impact to have about the same attendance. 00:21:07
Yeah. And along those same notes though, if you have to catch all within carnival vegetables, pachanga, whatever you wanna call 00:21:18
it, any other materials that the plan are being necessary to ensure access and safety, that's a great catch all. So just make sure 00:21:23
that's in there. 00:21:29
Umm, I wanna make sure we're using terms like farmers market, fireworks and carnivals do have definitions for all of those. Most 00:21:37
of them we do, but I, I'll, I'll double check all of our definitions. 00:21:43
OK. Does that depending on definitions and stuff, you may want to change farmers market to public market. Yeah, I'm not a farmer, 00:21:52
I'm not sure. 00:21:57
OK, the the next section, temporary use exemptions. So these are things that are temporary that don't require any kind of permit 00:22:03
right now. We currently have like family reunion in there. Umm, I looking at other codes found that oftentimes cities will include 00:22:07
garage sales. So I just create a standard in there and you'll see that there is one which that says the account operates longer 00:22:12
than five things. 00:22:17
In a calendar year, they kind of struck the sidewalk for public products with there's been some, you know, normal story of code 00:22:22
enforcement officers going to shut down a garage sale so they don't have a permit. And that was really bad on the city. So I 00:22:28
didn't just kind of covering ourselves here and putting in that exemption here to allow that use is good. So at with this, I'm 00:22:35
going to express the pet peeve. If no one else shares it, it's not a sword I'll die on. 00:22:41
I cannot stand when there are yard sale signs throughout a neighborhood, either a fixed to public telephone call or whatever it 00:22:48
is. 00:22:53
That is maintained by the public and then now there's sticky residue on it afterwards. Is there any language or any desire to say 00:22:58
no off site sign that? So yeah, I, I couldn't do that here. But it is also code in our time code. It says no, no time that ever 00:23:04
allowed anywhere. OK good. So we, we try our best to, to pull these signs, but I mean, if we pull one down 10 more show up. 00:23:10
Mm-hmm. Umm. And oftentimes a lot of garage sale friends will put them up on a Friday evening or something for the garage sale on 00:23:16
Saturday and. 00:23:22
Person doesn't work Saturday, so you know that there's ways around it, but we, we do try it back, OK. Just if it's already in 00:23:28
there, then we're good. Thanks. I, yeah, I mean, well, you know, I, I could include that. I'm just saying no thanks. But if it's 00:23:32
redundant. 00:23:36
OK, home occupation. So this is one that we have had some issues with umm, in the past and so we just wanted to kind of re examine 00:23:42
this. Umm So home occupation is just a secondary use of a home for somebody lives in their home and they wanna maybe have an 00:23:47
office where they cut hair or umm, whatever it may be. Umm So things that we've done is we've included definitions. We have very 00:23:53
vague definitions before. 00:23:58
We included a statement about aggregate impact. So somebody has multiple home, umm, business licenses. We say your impact can be 00:24:04
greater than what is allowed, right? You can't have one impact or one license that has this impact and one license that has this 00:24:11
impact. We're going to say those two cannot see, umm, the standards. Umm, we included group instruction as a, a new use. We, we 00:24:17
haven't had anything like that. So somebody wanna do like music lessons, umm, where they have, you know. 00:24:24
Uh, I should just have to share, but you know, more than one customer in their home, you know, whether it's sibling is going to 00:24:32
place you on or whatever it may be, they could not do that. 00:24:37
Umm, we add some language about non supplies and how the city can enforce that. And then we did modify the language about 00:24:43
multifamily parking requirement. We've had some umm, issues when we're issuing licenses where some of you will say, you know, 00:24:50
they, they live in a, a multi family development and they'll say, well, this is my parking stall and we have 30 visitor parking 00:24:57
stalls. Umm, and so we, we did make some modifications to allow them to umm, where we're only going to require them to provide. 00:25:03
Two designated parking spots for the business. 00:25:11
Umm because that's generally what we re require for single family loan. 00:25:14
So if there's any of these sections that you want me to get more, I'm happy to do that. Umm. 00:25:19
But one thing to note with non compliance, it was kind of confusing me. And this is where we, we've had some issues and we've had 00:25:27
to go through uh, uh, umm, hearing, umm is because it used to say that these are, you know, not permitted uses for home occupation 00:25:34
and investment, hiring office kennel or any similar Animal Services and medical practitioners all in one line. And so we just 00:25:41
split medical practitioners off of that because the argument was just sentence here talking purely about animals. 00:25:49
Stop Medical Practitioners doesn't really fit in here, so we just want to make that very clear that we don't want somebody, umm, 00:25:56
doing a medical clinic from their home, umm. 00:26:02
Actually, that's just, yeah, umm, we, we have had, uh, examples of, of doctors who do fight for business licenses for home 00:26:08
occupations where they're doing telehealth. And then that instance we're OK because they aren't treating any, any patients. It's a 00:26:13
non impact. You know, they're, they're just in their office taking calls and then we don't have issues with that. But it's when 00:26:19
they start practicing medicine on people in their basement. 00:26:24
Little little hairy. 00:26:30
Umm, so is there any any of these that. 00:26:34
So I need to go more details on. 00:26:40
Move on. Grocery facilities. So this is just any, you know, restaurant with the drive through. We've had language that queuing 00:26:44
lanes cannot be located near the primary pedestrian entrance. Let me focus just a bit more and I apologize the packet I gave you 00:26:50
is a little out of order. 00:26:57
That's that's a printer for me. 00:27:07
OK, OK. 00:27:12
Public streets that they can contain it within it development or property. Umm and then we're no longer going to allow Dr. 00:27:44
throughs to be permitted in front of buildings. So that's something we currently do allow umm and we we do want to strike that 00:27:51
from from the allowed use. Would this be applicable to every zoning district? Yes, and this would be from 1:00. 00:27:58
OK. Is this consistent with the proposed ordinance that we considered at our last meeting? 00:28:07
Umm, the technically, because we are, you know with that we are requiring them to do a traffic impact study for that drive through 00:28:16
at the pharmacy, umm. 00:28:20
Uh, it doesn't, Yeah, same thing. It's not located near the primary pedestrian entrance of the grocery store. That is, you know, 00:28:26
it's once again the car because we're not supposed to relate that code to the site plan itself. But yeah, it does. I, I'll, I'll 00:28:32
double check and make sure they aren't. There isn't anything conflicting. So here's where I'm going with it. Umm. 00:28:38
In the proposed #2 it says traffic traffic impact study. All development proposing a traffic Dr. proposing a drive through shall 00:28:45
require traffic impact study and updated traffic effect study. The city engineer may weigh the requirements for a traffic impact 00:28:51
study. 00:28:57
Wow, I 99% of the time, and I wanna get everyone's thought on this, say yeah, I want to allow staff to have the ability to be 00:29:04
flexible. You know that at our last one, we made it pretty darn clear. If you're getting a an exception to a zoning district where 00:29:14
the exception, that zoning district says no Dr. Throughs, you can get an exception if you meet this criteria. I don't want. 00:29:23
Them to then go to this other section of the code and say, look, we're allowed to waive it. 00:29:34
Line it's very clear the only reason you're getting an exception is if you're satisfying does that make sense I agree on that too 00:29:39
I, I, I think maybe it's a requirement, but you should require it for for all the the same similar use I mean it's, it's not like 00:29:45
Fiat has anything different than we are, but still the, the impact of the drive through is gonna be very similar regardless of 00:29:51
which location you you might as well be consistent in your triggering McDonald's as soon as you are uh pharmacies, I'm trying to 00:29:57
think of any circumstance when. 00:30:03
We would waive a traffic impact analysis or study for a drive through and I think. 00:30:09
Yeah, we have two different things. Yeah, 'cause he's just only just strike. He didn't strike that. I want to get everyone's 00:30:18
opinion on that. Uh, yeah, I, I agree. I agree with that. There was also something else that I wanted to point out. It's just no 00:30:24
longer allowed directors to be permitted in front of the building. What are we defining as the front? So to the yard, for example, 00:30:29
you have, uh. 00:30:35
Something that's facing Mill Road and something that's also facing the main center where people are walking and stuff. What's 00:30:40
considered? Yeah, I know that that has been a challenge, right? It's, it's because a lot of people think the front of the building 00:30:46
is like where the pedestrian generally parked and walked in, right? Yeah. Umm. And then in that industry, we're trying to protect 00:30:51
that from the bottom of that building so that there's no drive people walking that off, is it? But also. 00:30:57
Right. We're we're trying to build up next to the street and so that if someone's walking on the sidewalk, they can just walk 00:31:04
right into the building. Umm So, umm, the team has something on this, but this is something that we'll, we'll, we'll look into 00:31:08
more and maybe put a specific definition of what that looks like. 00:31:12
I guess I'm seeing the door blower structure here, but this guy makes comment in regards to the traffic starting traffic impact, 00:31:19
like in regards to that like waving it before. I think there was one time there was a time where the traffic impact study would be 00:31:26
maybe required by the engineer and I think we it was changed to be would be waived by the engineer like instances where it's 00:31:32
required, but it could be waived. 00:31:39
The only instances that umm uh uh, things like that would be waited. 00:31:46
Uh, for example, and it's not just, uh, iCloud for traffic impact study, but uh, for other things where that just there was like 00:31:51
a, uh, for example, uh, a traffic master plan was done for a, uh, for plan development to say that we did a plan development, we 00:31:57
did it, uh, a transportation on the traffic master plan for the whole development. And in that case, uh, while you're, uh, while 00:32:03
you're doing each our parcel for that, for that particular development regardless, it might be, they might sell off to one, uh, 00:32:09
one another builder and so forth. 00:32:15
Things in that master plan concept construct and those were the instances of release. Uh, it would be waived. Another example of 00:32:21
the environmental impact failures, uh, I've done them, uh, in federal government where we've had like, uh, uh, developing, like 00:32:28
our redeveloping in 2000 acres of old, uh, World War 2, uh, uh, facilities. And we would do an impact environmental impact study 00:32:36
and it was following these constructs aware, uh, as long as we're abiding to our, to the, to the main master finance. 00:32:43
A an EIS environmental impact for every single one does not, did not have to be constituted for one. So those would be the really 00:32:51
emphasis on that and having that flexibility to me would just allow a staff to be able to make those just makes sense. 00:32:59
If it's required every single time and they're working, I would say it was a burden on the developers. It's not saying that I 00:33:11
don't mind that. Yeah, no, I, I, I mind it. Umm, and I, I don't wanna make our developers incurring the expenses that aren't 00:33:18
necessary because developers aren't made of money, unlike some of us think that they are. Simply not the case. So I don't wanna 00:33:25
create any unnecessary burdens. Umm, my concern with one of the examples you brought up was if I created a big commercial. 00:33:32
Flat and I show where my commercial pads are. I might have had a study done that didn't consider that pad X has a drive through. 00:33:40
But now, lo and behold, Chick-fil-A is coming. I'm not going to say no to fruit and Chick-fil-A, but Chick-fil-A does not have the 00:33:47
impact of Chick-fil-A. Exactly none of those things where instance where and again. 00:33:53
Yeah. 00:34:02
And then I, I want, I wanna ask my time and I'll give one more example where we're currently doing that. For example, from water, 00:34:04
uh, we're Stillwater long term stormwater master plan that we currently have on the table. Uh, it's required by our MS-4 municipal 00:34:10
Stonewall or something company service. Mm-hmm. I hold the name, but already do like a regional, like a developer does a regional. 00:34:16
Uh, uh, retention system and every time they're, and then what we do, uh, required for developer and just recently had a 00:34:23
conversation last week as, as they're developing each one to keep like, uh, we put the owners on the developer keep track of like 00:34:29
what their impacts are for that, for that system and, umm, to keep track and submit to us every single time you, of course, you go 00:34:35
check on it, but for that thing and on there. And then one, uh, aspect that could be on is could be way by city engineer, but umm, 00:34:41
we get this in my last city, but. 00:34:47
You know, I won't open the door because it requires us to park, uh, to work with our solo planners with, uh, up and down to the, 00:34:53
you know, to be, uh, recommended by the city planner and waived by the city engineer. So put the check and balances and that's 00:34:59
what the city planner is like. Hey, you know, we think this constitutes, uh, constitutes that. And then the engineer will be like, 00:35:05
yeah, we agree with you on that. But again, uh, I'm not gonna post through the state. Everyone just does it regardless. No, I OK, 00:35:11
I'll know. 00:35:16
What we could do is maybe just instead of vaguely saying, sitting in camera with the requirements, say. 00:35:22
If these conditions, not these conditions are under the circumstances, umm, because, uh, because it's, it's like a, so the, uh, 00:35:29
the TIS is being required, but it's not like the master development side. It seems like the pharmacy kind of wanted the main 00:35:35
attentions were looking not just at like the overall traffic, like account and volume, but it was looking at the impact like the 00:35:41
queueing distance. And then maybe there's something. So if the team has the authority to say, well, you don't need to do a full 00:35:46
blown, it's the TIS. 00:35:52
We want we want a traffic engineer to submit a human study. So it it's basically amended it a little bit to fit the actual some 00:35:58
kind of analysis of the traffic impact. Whatever form that takes a letter from a licensed engineer that says I don't see an issue 00:36:04
and that is that is in the code or in the suggested edit is that it says an alternative to the traffic impact. So it would 00:36:11
require. 00:36:17
Analysis. 00:36:24
So I just want to make them. Maybe I'm meeting it today. Umm. 00:36:26
So I, I don't wanna have the language be so they that 20 years from now gonna have a city engineer that doesn't have the same 00:36:33
force or engineer. And they they exist. And the opportunity for me not to renew something. Yeah, that's why I wanna make sure we 00:36:39
we have a few sections of code where it says like parking requirements and it's like it shall be determined by the city clients. 00:36:45
That's it. 00:36:51
And now that's coming to buy before we do have some, some development coming on, right. Hey, you can determine what parking is. 00:36:58
Mostly we're at the point where we say, well, look at the parking code and that'll tell you what the parking requirement is about 00:37:04
that. So we can do that for that one, providing the tools first. Yeah, OK. 00:37:10
Talking too much, OK, uh, getting back to these were the, the new uses that I mentioned in the, the umm, district use table. We 00:37:17
have the check cashing and other credit services. So this is any kind of financial institution except for banks and credit unions. 00:37:23
And there is a very specific definition for this that we got from the state. Umm, but this has development standards, umm, such as 00:37:29
separation requirement. We don't want to see one of these on, you know, five in a row in one building or something. So there's a 00:37:34
separation requirement. 00:37:40
Umm, assistance, they, they have to be from one another. Umm, limiting the quantity based off the population. I believe that's 00:37:46
one, one, uh, business per 10,000 people. Umm, and then we, like I said, included that definition and at the very end of half of 00:37:50
these definitions. 00:37:55
And our attorney said, we're just putting those restrictions on specifically from Aaron promo, their code, umm, and they, they 00:38:01
have these restrictions. And we will, you know, once we, we've got the final draft stage, we'll send this to the, our attorney to 00:38:06
review umm, and then make sure he, he's good with that. 00:38:11
Uh, this is mobile food court. Umm, this is one that we probably should ask yet when we do the pause here, yeah, yeah, we'll 00:38:19
probably have Jamie. Umm, so this is something we, we examined. I think it was mostly felt like say is the city that has the most 00:38:26
developed code on this, but in this case, the development standards, we want to see a site plan. Umm, so essentially mobile food 00:38:33
court is any time that there are more than I believe it's three food trucks in one parcel or property. 00:38:40
Umm, we would require conditional use permit so we could get the vector eyes on the, you know, the finance Commission to review 00:39:18
these, umm, and approve them. And I, I honestly don't imagine we'll see too many mobile food courts come into the city. Umm, but 00:39:24
still just kind of cover up and then that definition. So I think, uh, as far as no Dr. throughs, I think. 00:39:29
If they came with a plan that can show that they structure isn't gonna impact any other properties and some kind of guarantee to 00:39:36
that. I think that having directly fine is, is just maybe one of those things to umm, where the brick and mortar guys are putting 00:39:44
the landscaping, the buffer and all, all those requirements that umm, we have in our drive through ordinance and so. 00:39:52
OK, OK. And we, we just we have a developer approaches. I'm about to build this multi tenant building for restaurant space. But if 00:40:31
you guys are allowing this type of use with Dr. throughs, I'm just gonna do that. And I can get three Dr. throughs on my site 00:40:39
without putting the landscaping or any kind of improvement. And that's where I'm alright. So we don't mobile drive because we 00:40:46
don't become a food truck city. So what I propose is don't pay no Dr. throughs, just hold them to the same. 00:40:54
Standard, and I say this because there's some really successful mobile food courts where they have barely like clearly laid out 00:41:01
salt and and and then we get to change the vendor outlook depending on if they're leasing spaces and some of them have very 00:41:08
clearly laid out Dr. throughs. 00:41:15
Umm, I think something like that would be fantastic for the city. So I don't wanna outright ban them. So I'm fine withholding them 00:41:24
to the exact same standards. So under the temporary use, may we add a section that says, umm, any temporary uses with a drive 00:41:29
through shall here to section and then we put the drive through section and so there's that cross reference and then they we have 00:41:35
that same level of scrutiny that a brick and mortar. So to kinda get to to as well. Yeah, people are fine with that. I think that 00:41:40
sounds great, yeah. 00:41:46
Yeah, if they're if they're holding same standards for the landscaping that drive through in the queue and everything. 00:41:52
To umm, umm, place food options out near the, the beach. It's getting more and more cloudy, even without improvements. But you go 00:42:29
out there on a Saturday and there's nice weather is packed. And so, but being able to provide, uh, a mobile food court, which is, 00:42:36
umm, has the infrastructure it's set up. So it's nice. There's places where, umm, where, where the, the food trucks. So we are 00:42:44
looking at a spot for, for one, if, if we were to do 1 by the, by the beach area and umm, parking wise it, it would. 00:42:51
And that would be more on public land, but parking wise, we would be utilizing all that's a street parking that's going to be 00:42:59
built built into it right there. So I wouldn't necessarily throw a mobile food truck. Umm, if there's parking available, then 00:43:06
maybe like a parking analysis is required. Umm, that, that that we can analyze per food shortcut at food court. But it might be 00:43:13
hard to have like a blanket parking requirement depending on the, you know, the size or what Lucy and offers I. 00:43:21
Feel that the discussion about mobile food courts that alone could be a 45 minute discussion on what could be permitted not 00:43:29
permitted what we want them to look like umm because when done right Oh yeah umm and so I wanna make sure we're putting it we're 00:43:36
structuring it in such a way that we're setting the table yeah one one other step that we're gonna take is we actually wanna reach 00:43:43
out to you know some. 00:43:51
Truck banners in Vineyard, bring them into a meeting and meet with us and, and go over these standards and, and get their feedback 00:43:59
on them. Umm, we understand some might not be too happy if we're gonna say you need to provide bathrooms or safe parking. Umm, but 00:44:04
we do want to have a better understanding from them as well. Like some things that they, they, they're willing to provide and 00:44:09
bring to the site. Just, I mean, it makes everything a much better experience if there is delineated parking and seating and that, 00:44:14
that kind of stuff. 00:44:19
So something we talked about a long time ago when we were discussing, uh, growth, parking done, uh, was the city. 00:44:25
Like providing or even leasing out spaces that a food truck could come and be at a public space. Is there any I'm glad you 00:44:34
actually mentioned this. I it was actually going back to the shape. I think I did. I'm not the shade guys completely reached out 00:44:40
and said, hey, we're interested in in racing up some space from park for the just next year. So umm, and it's currently not 00:44:46
allowed in our policy. So I did reach out to our partners manager just said, hey, what's what's going on here? And he said that it 00:44:52
is his his goal before the spring to get. 00:44:58
Policy in place where we could implement whether it is new trust or some sort of food vendor to bring that to to our part space. 00:45:04
Are you familiar with the hub in South Jordan? Uh, is that like near day right. Uh near if I think South Jordan, I'll say 00:45:10
everything is near but it it, it's worth it Google yeah just to take a look at because that's something that I think is well done 00:45:16
You have. 00:45:22
Nice open area, you have a very clear parking. You have a shared bathroom and that is a. 00:45:29
Mobile support. When I hear mobile food court, I think of that because it's still within a person's, one that may be down the 00:45:36
street from us, that they have two or three at one time. And it is Wild West. You said we wanna limit the former. Yeah. OK. So I, 00:45:43
I definitely think we should look into it more food court stuff or mobile food courts being in public space. So we should, I mean, 00:45:50
it should be allowed in private spaces. 00:45:58
Yeah, well, we, we for sure should hopefully have that policy and I'm not saying the policy would say we're going to allow it uh 00:46:06
in in public spaces, but we are re examining it and, and seeing what we can do. Umm. 00:46:11
And it's it's kind of a pleasant place to go and get your fuel back, but they're they're really working hard at it. But like, it's 00:46:48
not even an easy access or more planal ****** to enjoy it. So if there's a way to make this something that is, umm, able to 00:46:56
include in public makes more sense to me than private because it is not going to get that use the rest of the year easily. And So 00:47:03
what happens with that land? Yeah, yeah. And if if I mean, I don't think we can say like it can only be in the public space. 00:47:11
Until we have like a certain plan of we have spaces where you can actually come and be yeah yeah. But of course we're still right 00:47:19
now for sure OK yeah we'll we'll look into that one again. I'll just add 2 caches and rock telework has been working with Parks 00:47:27
and rec in terms of like looking at the infrastructure feasibility provide for. 00:47:35
Specifically for growth parts like ability to be able to provide for like a like an elevated next house for the kids that can help 00:47:45
area where there's like so they're they're not there. They're not they're two trucks aren't having to run generators. 00:47:51
And they have actual connections to. 00:47:58
Water and so forth make this out a better a better accessory 1 and and to be able to run around as well on that and see what you 00:48:03
know, obviously cost cost connected to that. So you have to have money partners been taking pretty seriously. I think they even 00:48:09
did like a little internal study. Cool, thank you Great stuff. All right here for Mike, you know, a little spicy here. We have a 00:48:15
short term rental. 00:48:21
Umm, we, you know, it is just a, a very hot topic. People hate them and they love them right? When you're on vacation up in 00:48:28
southern and be able to go to our house where you have your own space and take a small hotel room, umm. 00:48:33
That being said, we, we are, you know, examining what we can do in the city to allow them to a certain extent. Umm, so, uh, short 00:48:40
term rentals, anything is less than 30 days. Umm, so this change would allow for rentals less than that. It requires a license to 00:48:46
be held by the owner, umm, and establishes enforcement language that is pretty strict. Umm, it would require no duplex rental 00:48:52
route system beyond, you know, a house with an Adu. They can do an incremental on both. Umm, they couldn't even do a short for 00:48:58
rental and an Adu. 00:49:04
They could, you know, 11 rental. 00:49:10
Yes uh, and then it, it has a calling here about records management. Umm, before there's a few more slides on this that kind of 00:49:15
breaks down how we accomplish this. Umm, we require that there's two different license types. So the first one is for single 00:49:21
family homes. Umm, it would be, uh, we'd require 5 parking stalls. We'd have a maximum of four unrelated people or families. Uh, 00:49:28
yeah. Once again, we cannot have an EU and a. 00:49:34
Short term rental. 00:49:42
And then we would issue 1 license for 50 homes in the neighborhood with a minimum of two. So the neighborhood has 80 houses. We 00:49:43
allow 2 short commercials and it would be just a first temperature basis. And your license is active as long as you keep your, uh, 00:49:49
you know, your license with the city active. Once that last, then you know, we can move on to the next person that supplies. How 00:49:54
much would it cost to get a license? Uh, we don't have that in here yet. That would be something we, we'd need to expand with 00:50:00
other cities. 00:50:06
If you really didn't want a short term rental in your neighborhood, you could just apply. 00:50:12
Well, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there, there's always a, a strategy in there. But what we would most likely do is look at what 00:50:19
the administration costs would be processing the permit. We can't. And then the electronics, we can't like make a profit. And so 00:50:26
basically we have to analyze, umm, you know, what does it take for us to do? Most likely there would be an inspection of some, 00:50:32
some sort of fire inspection. It's your window. Well, it's not covered. 00:50:38
Fires like smoke detectors and so there's things like that. So you gotta look at that and say kind of what the cost of that would 00:50:45
be. And then we base the the GF of that. Yeah. So that, that brings up a good point that I have an Adu in my face and the permit 00:50:54
was about 50 bucks a year. So I was also part of this conversation when we first talked about this. So in the other building. 00:51:03
So a long time, yeah. I, I actually, I, I did just think so technically somebody could do that or they could apply for one. 00:51:13
So the heck of it yeah, I mean you technically still could, but it it you know, there's there's work involved in that yeah. So, 00:51:50
uh, this that in that specific thing wasn't talked about in the meeting, but just short term rentals and should they be allowed in 00:51:58
the meeting? And a lot of yeah, it's like a power feeling like, well, umm, since the last. So we have that kind of initial 00:52:05
conversations. And then there was the umm, the X dev multi family, umm, building, right. We actually required them to to. 00:52:13
We wanted to provide umm, you know, it's like, yeah. And we actually from external development standpoint, we uh, we adopted. So 00:52:20
the county has a 1% transient room tax, but so does the city. And so if you have a short term ******* then we get, you know, one, 00:52:28
1% of that umm would, would come to the city. So there definitely is so, so I guess there's like a fee, but like that's where the 00:52:35
city would see some economic benefit for from these umm, but there's, there's sort of, uh, a 1/3 type 2 that's not in here, but. 00:52:43
Umm, like Saint George, because they're very strictly short term rentals and they don't allow I I, I don't think that most single 00:52:51
family here because don't brown, but they do have developments that that are like, you know, you can own a unit. Everyone can do a 00:52:58
short term rental. You could do like a like a basic complex. Yeah, OK. It is really economical. Again, that brings a lot of 00:53:06
commerce in. And then when you're thinking about things like, you know, having the Olympics here in several years like this. 00:53:13
People from Arizona aren't buying up these short term rentals and vineyards and crafting off of us. It is you know what local 00:54:21
developer something like that. Well, that leads me to question currently does not this proposition say that it needs to be are 00:54:28
occupied in order to do short term rental? No, no, wouldn't so that that would be like the type 1 where you haven't seen a family 00:54:34
home where you might have a basement apartment that you do want to do a short term rental. 00:54:41
We, we actually prefer keeping that as housing stock and that's why we allow the accessory dwelling units because it does offer a 00:54:49
lower income housing. 00:54:53
Umm, option for the city where, you know, all, all of our Adus were then turned into short term rentals. It would actually be a 00:54:58
pretty bad thing in terms of having affordability. Umm, we, we've been here. The, the, the literature that was one, one thing we 00:55:04
found is that, that's one of the negatives to having just like full fledge, uh, short term rentals wherever you want is that they 00:55:10
just cut into the rent rental stock and it can, it can hurt kind of. 00:55:17
So speaking to that, uh, what if we put in the type 1, then it has to be on our occupied but still 1 license issue per fifty 00:55:23
homes. 00:55:28
So I think it's for people who like pretty much have an Adu that they want to turn into us. Yeah, yeah, or, or even like limited. 00:55:35
So it's it's not like a. 00:55:40
Correct. Or there's even homes, uh, that are short term rentals where they rent out a room in the house and they come and stay in 00:55:45
the house with the person. Uh, I would be more in favor of something like that only because so I've, I've been on both sides of 00:55:52
the short term rental where I'm part of a group that you do not want in your short term rental. And I've also been with my family. 00:55:59
That's great. But the group, yeah, you do not want that. 00:56:06
And and that's where we do have, like I said, the the maximum 4 unrelated people or that that consider unrelated people that are 00:56:13
staying the night, right? 00:56:17
Good morning everybody. We do have a pretty strict, uh, document recommendation process where we do require them to at any time so 00:56:21
they can request all the documents of who's been. So I don't know about who since, but like number of people saying your location 00:56:28
and all that data has to be given to the city. Umm, we haven't got it. Sorry, I was just going to. I think that gets really messy. 00:56:35
Yeah, if you start asking for the definition of related or family. 00:56:42
That can get no documents you can purchase. They are not and we have to get into like are people allowed over to visit if there's 00:56:50
four people staying there, how many people are allowed in there and then. 00:56:56
Parking gets it's not unenforceable. Yeah, it's unenforceable. That is actually what I wanted to ask because there's all this 00:57:02
enforcement language, but who's enforcing it? It's almost scrutiny. So is that something that can be really regularly monitored 00:57:09
otherwise, You know, it's almost. So essentially I, I can see enforcement working in, in a few ways. So like if if I had an Airbnb 00:57:16
in my house, we realized by the city and then I see somebody pop up with one on. 00:57:22
Illegal. I can report that to the city and once we have a report of a short term rental, we are able to, to do a bit of, of work 00:57:29
of enforcement to get them to shut it down. Umm, but until we have that report, we can't really do anything. You know, we're not 00:57:34
sitting there on our computers at work strolling Airbnb and doing that. We, we wait until we have something seems like I have you 00:57:39
left it it, it definitely does. Umm. 00:57:44
Right, right. 00:58:19
You know, for for a movie or something like that, or they're doing like YouTube videos. 00:58:50
And and make people who do have supplementals make sure that the people coming and renting the branch and the family, not branch 00:59:27
and his friends. 00:59:31
Occurs, I would say upper section, any code enforcement or any police activity kind of all-encompassing because maybe they got the 01:00:06
license and they're abiding by this, but they're breaking the noise ordinance every time because they keep renting out on problem. 01:00:13
Like, you know, maybe I I'd like to see that and click it as well. I love the three strikes you're out. I think that's fantastic. 01:00:21
Something to verify in the three structure out. Umm, I believe in Utah, umm. 01:00:28
The the standard may be within a 12 month period. So that's something we might wanna check with Jamie is do do the first because 01:00:36
he's done on the phone. He's kinda yeah, it does stay in here for the for the third violation within 12 months so that you get 2 01:00:42
and then you're past the 12 months and you get another one. So I got, I wonder if it could just be 3 strikes or if we could help 01:00:48
out a little bit. We might wanna talk to you in a little bit more see if there's something that provides a better time frame than 01:00:54
12 months. Umm yeah, so let's. 01:01:00
We not that we want to umm. 01:01:34
You know, encourage everyone to constantly looking for it. But is that the right response? Then if somebody said that to me, I 01:01:36
could please put in a report. And as many times you see it, just report, OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Morgan's number. And the 01:01:42
more proof the better, right? We, we can try to use like if somebody sends in a report, umm, for an Airbnb website, you can't 01:01:48
actually use the listing itself as a, as a violation, right? That's the freedom of speech to say, I have a house that you can 01:01:54
rent, but we can. 01:02:00
Things like other students have discussed using the what's called the comic section or the the feedback that people leave saying I 01:02:06
had a great time staying at this house with my three friends or whatever. We can do that. 01:02:11
'S a weird, it's a weird. Umm, we can for if somebody has a basement apartment or an accessory long unit, they're using it for 01:02:19
rental, we can use the listing as evidence according to state law. Umm, but we've done before when I, I mean, so much has changed 01:02:25
since I was an enforcement on this, but it's about 10 years ago. 01:02:31
Umm, and there's illegal to offer not just to actually do it, but to offer it. And so we often have, we'd often have people 01:02:38
applying and when it was offered, yeah, yeah. That that is things we can't do. There are cities that that will do that where they 01:02:44
will just log into their account and try to, or they can message the owner be I can't interested in staying the night and they the 01:02:50
owner message is back saying great, we have these available, whatever. At that point you can then say, why don't you break the 01:02:56
code so. 01:03:02
Go back to Gmail. We'll just collect the umm, yeah. I think the more we can encourage people to do the normal violence, what we 01:03:08
get you probably. 01:03:12
Yes, exactly. That's exactly. 01:03:17
Right. 01:03:21
That's in the place the better. So that's great. So my just quick thoughts with the type 1 license, umm, love that needs to be 01:03:54
held by a property owner. So you're not subletting, umm, parking spaces. That's fine. I would recommend we scratch any kind of 01:04:01
maximum of number of guests or the type of guests, whether it's guest or family, stay out of it. So if there's twelve of them, but 01:04:08
they're respectful and they're quiet and there's not a single thing, how about it? I don't care and same thing. We we can. 01:04:16
Met with parking right if they don't have the parking they have for the people show up in 30 cars, then we, we can say requires 5 01:04:24
parking spaces and make sure it's part of the license that they share with their guests in the long street parking that doesn't 01:04:29
count yeah I, I think that's really why I, I mean just recently we had a battery unit and my sister dented umm, a, a condo in 01:04:35
Provo and a lot of us just showed up and hung out when we didn't stay there and so yeah, you kinda get into where you're like 01:04:41
splitting hairs with the guest yeah. 01:04:47
I will be here past the night. So I think I think the reason to have the maximum number of guests isn't so much to enforce that as 01:04:54
much as it is for the people that are. 01:04:58
Good owners of properties, they'll be like, this is the most that I can do. Like I'm gonna try to up, I'm gonna try to do that 01:05:04
instead of rent this out and be like, I'm lifting it with you can have 16 people here. Like I think it's just to keep the like 01:05:11
honest and good guys like in check. Like this is what I can do if I'm trying to buy this as an investment. We, we could do it like 01:05:18
based off of like bedroom or something like that where they can have two people per bedroom in the house. 01:05:26
Or something. So I have a little bit of flexibility if you have any better homes but have 16 we could do that, you know, 01:05:33
inspection of color highs that was over that that short term rental program. 01:05:37
In reality, like the police aren't going to like question every single person and go are you staying the night or you just said, 01:06:11
yeah, I mean, if I want to see those good just to have. But we have other codes that are pro like really impossible. But it is 01:06:16
good to have it because you can always point someone to it. Go well, that is the code. 01:06:21
Market for Adus that, that that's one that pretty much everyone violates, but it's, it's really hard to, uh, enforce because you 01:06:28
can tandem park a umm, umm, the, the Adu people Cantana park. You can't Tana park Adu as an owner. It's more informational, but 01:06:35
it's, it's like so hard to have it as much informational. OK, we can't really enforce that, but the people that are doing things 01:06:43
right and like sticking to code, which there are people that are doing that like to get some information. 01:06:50
Yeah, umm, my other thought where homes cannot have an Adu license and a, umm, short term rental license, that's just to make sure 01:06:58
that we're not reducing our housing stock. Those numbers that we're reporting as part of our housing element, we want to make sure 01:07:04
we're not losing those. It makes perfect sense. And we, we get in trouble with anything from the state where we start reducing, 01:07:10
umm, global housing stock. Yeah, we, we have how many Adus we have in the city? And if that number goes down, they're not going to 01:07:16
be too active. 01:07:22
So if I have if I have a basement apartment and I work. 01:07:28
To make that an ADUI have zero chance of ever making that, uh, short term rental unless I want to request that my Adu license 11 01:07:32
or the other great. And what's nice about how, uh, cash has this written up. It really does, umm, allow the IT, it does make it 01:07:39
very sparse, but that's illegal. And so even if someone doesn't need you, it's not taking a ton of inventory away. Whereas in 01:07:47
here, uh, for ads, you can pretty much, umm, anywhere in the city as long as you meet the minimum requirements. 01:07:54
Account so so I, I think this is a pretty good compromise OK and then my last one for type 1 licenses. Umm each community can have 01:08:02
a minimum of 2 short term rental licenses plus one so for every 50 home umm. 01:08:10
What's the definition of community? For the most part, most a lot of the cities built into these black pods of homes. 01:08:18
An actual map OK so we do the same thing yeah I, I think that works umm I also we could have the map attached to the ordnance some 01:08:31
kind of exhibit there that and instead of we could say 53 or whatever. OK almost now as long as we have that spelled out district 01:08:37
or community or like the garden neighborhood yeah that's, that's a basically how we added them, but there are a few communities 01:08:44
where there's only 12 homes so then are you getting. 01:08:51
You know, to single or short term rentals in that one small community. And so we, you know, there might be so many communities 01:08:58
that we we bundle together where you have, you know, 50 homes that are together. 01:09:04
For the most part, we have very defined and vineyards. So it actually makes this this pretty easy. You have some very defined 01:09:11
boundaries, but what we might have is the line where you have part sides and then you have garden. They're backing up next to each 01:09:17
other, They're separate. 01:09:22
Neighborhood but they're next door to each other and you have to have a cluster of 10 all right next to each other and so is there 01:09:28
an appetite for not just having this restriction but also seeing No2 licenses shall be within 100 feet of each other or whatever 01:09:36
number we choose we we could check with Jamie on that one I'm I'm thinking. 01:09:44
That may have been something that we talked about and, and, and initially and uh, yeah, we, we, we just have to check on it 01:09:53
because it's kind of like if your neighbor does a short term rental. 01:09:58
Flies back. Now she takes away your ability so you can't be no, no, no, yeah. 01:10:03
No, we're already putting the first come first serve restriction. Yeah, we'll we'll have my conversation. 01:10:11
And according to this definition regarding neighborhood has 126 homes. So we're looking at 4-4. Yeah, Yeah. If we decided that was 01:10:19
a community, right, we might, yeah. We also need to kind of figure that out. And then, and it could be more gonna just have 01:10:26
smaller meetings and more than the neighborhood, you know, Parkside plus Garden equals 415 homes. They're gonna get a lot more 01:10:33
than if you split them up. 01:10:41
You know anymore if you say the water, Yeah. 01:10:49
You know all of them. Yeah, yeah, in the garden. So yeah, we'll work. We'll work out those things. OK, Thanks. Umm, then Type 2 01:10:54
license. I'm agreeing. I would love to encourage if there's a condo development that is kind of resort based, umm, those are 01:11:02
awesome developments where it's controlled, it's managed. Umm, those would be great. 01:11:09
Sure. Yeah, the development permit, permit, OK. 01:11:21
Two, yes, please multifamily complex that builds in the on site management and then umm, they could do that. But with the type 3 01:11:25
it most likely what we're imagining in the news development some coming in. So we wanna do a resort type development where EE, you 01:11:32
know, everyone there is allowed to have a short credentials, but then we need to have requirements like in Saint George, they 01:11:40
advertise it yes, like you drive into development and it's like short term rentals are allowed here. 01:11:47
It's like about that, yeah. And I, I think those ones are great. 01:11:55
Umm my only comment on the type 2 was similar is the one that's the type 1 of questioning how your the maximum number of guests 01:11:59
and a family, all that stuff like comments. Do we want to on type one just to kind of go back to umm, Bryce's comment about the 01:12:06
room do is that something umm we would fit into type 1? I guess how how we have type 1 is that limited to a unit or umm or could 01:12:13
that be a room within a house? If someone has a house without, maybe you wanna rent out a room. 01:12:19
I whatever I I wanna hear what everyone else says for me. I feel like that's impossible. 01:12:30
I think if you did limit it, I like bedrooms. Like I'm, I'm proposing my house with one bedroom for an Adu. We'd say up to two 01:12:35
people or whatever. Umm, alright. My only comment on that is it's impossible to enforce, but that's my end up Yeah, umm. 01:12:44
Yeah. Uh, I would just say yeah, maybe number of guests per ring, 2 guests per room or something. Yeah. But again, that's, yeah, 01:12:55
it is hard to then you just have something in there though that you can, yeah, go back. But like if they're stackable though, 01:13:02
right? Because if they're all these parameters, you can kind of stack if you were violating them. So the better it can be defined. 01:13:10
That gives you a start yeah and for the most part it's OK uh, with a short term rental, that code is like they're getting 01:13:19
complained about umm and it's usually cut the noise. They're having a big party, they're parking all over the place and so. 01:13:25
There's a lot of like ancillary things that we can go at from a code enforcement and then we go, oh, and you're a social medical. 01:13:32
Yeah, Yeah, so you're right. Yeah, you stack them. You stack them one thing, but multiple things would be clear that they were 01:13:37
breaking the parameters and what it was intended to be. Yeah. 01:13:43
Umm, what? One, we don't want these to be family reunions, pretty much because that's not what they were built and intended to be. 01:13:50
That's what the Yeah, my family and my brother's family wanted to visit vineyards during the Olympics, and there's only A5 bedroom 01:13:55
home. 01:14:00
We would have to go to another community. I just want to make sure. 01:14:07
And that's where I do like it is hard to enforce, but, but it's pretty obvious that the family 50 shows up for family reunion that 01:14:12
they are breaking that code and we would be able to work, you know, with the license folder that they can't do stuff like that. 01:14:19
And same thing we could use that listing, right? If somebody has a home with, with eight bedrooms, they we could look at the 01:14:25
listing and say, hey, you have the home with eight bedrooms. You can have up to 16 guests, but you're advertising 20 plus. 01:14:32
There we go. Yeah, that's more than I was thinking too, because you might need to be in two houses because it's home, but you can 01:14:39
actually get 2 houses. 01:14:41
Right. And they wouldn't be fitted, one of the homes, one of the bedrooms. 01:14:45
It wouldn't be next to each other probably either because of the way this set up in here. Unless you had a separate community, you 01:14:51
wouldn't be staying near each other. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, it's kind of a part of me was saying, oh, I could have made 01:14:56
one of the rooms a bunk room and there's four beds in it. But this restriction. But then that means I'm in the business of short 01:15:02
term rentals. That's what I'm saying is no, this isn't for professional short term renters, right? 01:15:08
With yeah because we don't want because it needs to be owner occupied yeah we don't wanna have like possible correct yeah yeah 01:15:14
alright. Umm a rotating door yeah yeah umm well looking at the looking at the type 2 and talking about the type 3 they require on 01:15:21
site management. I still think with type 1 like having it owner occupied like we we could say so some cities will say things like 01:15:29
the and. 01:15:36
The, the owner has to live within 25 miles or something like that. Umm, which which is hard for us to enforce, but that is, you 01:15:44
know, and live like in vineyards. So because right now we don't allow they're there, but this, this would be like opening up. 01:15:51
What's the, and that way we're not taking, I mean, we're not taking stock off of like the market for somebody buying it as an 01:15:59
investment property for short term rentals. And we're making it possible for people that. 01:16:06
Having a hard time buying their first home to make it possible for them to. That's my concern. When I was in Napa, CA, those house 01:16:14
prices were going up so much partially because me and my little family were competing with the Silicon Valley billionaires buying 01:16:22
their 4th vacation and so there's no way I could compete with that. I'd like to continue to encourage Vineyard to have as many. 01:16:30
Resident occupants as possible, because those are the ones participating in the schools, on the library board, on the Planning 01:16:39
Commission, coming to meetings that are overflowing like this one. I wanna make sure we're so still doing that and if we create 01:16:44
too many opportunities. 01:16:49
For rental investment that only where I think this helps too is that instead of it being you're taking away housing stock and 01:16:54
you're driving the cost of real estate up. What you're what you're doing is you're creating a tool where someone owns a house and 01:17:00
then they're able to use a short term answer to offset the mortgage to make it more affordable that I. 01:17:07
Blackandveteran.com to be a missionary, what am I gonna do with my home for two years? Stuff like that, You know stuff like that 01:17:15
is OK. It's I just wanna make sure all those would be long term rentals. Never mind. I see the benefit of doing that occupied 01:17:23
requirement for instruction rentals, but what would the benefit of the owner living within 25 miles be? 01:17:31
Umm, and it it, it works OK, but the idea is that they're supposed to respond really quickly. 01:18:11
Yeah, noise complaint. Hmm. So that, that, that I I think that's one somebody's gonna do it. Could we require it needs to be 01:18:17
professionally managed. Is that the concern? 01:18:21
Uh, no, no, not an outfit. If you're, if you're the owner for type 1, I don't know. 01:18:28
If that's necessary, if it's owner occupied and yeah. And if the owner occupied as far as management, I mean, if it's under 01:18:32
occupied, then they kind of have the responsibility to their neighbors because they know their neighbors, they live next to them. 01:18:38
And then, uh, we can just have requirements where it would need to their yard and stuff would need to be managed to a level that's 01:18:44
higher than even just a single family home. And I put that on the license application thing, understand by getting this license, 01:18:50
this is kind of another. 01:18:56
Registration form where you're on a list and you're gonna be held to a higher standard. Yeah, OK, that's reasonable. Umm, one 01:19:03
thing I, I did note on here, umm, on site property owners might be a little vague. Somebody who lives in, in water, that might be 01:19:08
like, well, I have, you know, my HOA management company at the clubhouse or whatever. So I think we'd want to have very specific 01:19:14
language on what on site management means that like it's on the property site, right? Umm, but that type 2 it is somewhere, you 01:19:20
know, with this building. 01:19:26
That proposed they're proposing that they will have like a leasing office there for the apartment units of lack as this management 01:19:33
company for the the the short term rentals. Yeah. And another comment on the Type 2. I think that they would have to require a 01:19:39
parking pass with the short term rental that it would have to be a physical. You have these two parking passes and that's it like 01:19:45
yeah, yeah. 01:19:52
In a more professional setting, you're a professional. No, all of them neighborhoods have some sort of parking programs. Yeah. 01:20:29
Yeah. OK. And if they don't, then it would just have to be they would have to park in a dedicated spot. OK. Because the type one. 01:20:36
Yeah. Don't go on the street. You have 5 spaces be in the garage or on the driveway. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. 01:20:44
OK, umm, and I, we put in the required back with back to type one. That's just came to my mind. Umm, with the five plus parking 01:20:52
stalls, we could require that. Like the garage is acceptable. We've been talking to you like, you know, I use an RV tab in the 01:20:59
driveway. Uh, but a broad drop limit. Do we want any kind of language about that? I'm looking at the garage being off limits if 01:21:06
they can still provide 5 stalls that are off the street, OK. 01:21:13
OK. 01:21:21
Perfect, that's a lot work off of with. 01:21:21
Sorry, that was just my thought. I don't know if this or not. And on some of these, I think this is a drawing that we we, we can 01:21:25
even bring back and just do an individual session on. 01:21:30
Yeah, short term. So especially once, once it gets out, umm, as far as people who own short term vessels, we have attacking 01:21:35
support. I think this is what you're talking about, Bryce. That big meeting you had where the, where umm, they got word of it and 01:21:40
everyone who owned a short term vessel, you know, contacting each other. And also one meeting we didn't actually do not accept 01:21:46
like because it was the first time where everyone at the meeting was speaking in favor of source message. 01:21:51
Because I was the only one that was on the Commission that had gone to a short term rental. And they're like they said they're 01:21:59
still and they're like, and he knows he's been to a short term rental. He's in favor of this. And I was like, well, I know you're 01:22:04
there. When was his name? I saw you left in the bathroom. 01:22:09
Yeah, yeah. I would've been like 2018-2019, not before that. Yeah, it's in the old buildings. It was a while ago. 01:22:17
And in park. 01:22:25
Umm, and then we included a specific definition of weed. 01:23:00
And that is everything. So these are the definitions like I said that that check cashing in other private services is very, very 01:23:03
specific of, of what that is. A lot of it coming from the state, umm, pretty much is exempting, you know, your, your credit Union 01:23:09
Bank, but it's your, you know, check cashing kind of places that are considering that. Does the code have a definition of mobile 01:23:15
food vendor? Uh, currently, no, no, these are all new things. So I like that, such as food trucks, but where it says there are 01:23:21
multiple food vendors. 01:23:27
There's trouble mobile. I think what we could do is it sounds like, umm overall people want you. You all want some good defined 01:23:34
definitions for like the first route. So what what why don't we kind of just do an audit any like a major terms definition for 01:23:41
that? Yeah. And that could just be 15.1 or wherever the definition. Yeah, we just dropped. So I think that is all that I have. I 01:23:48
have a really important question. Does umm price get sent in to gavel when we're done? 01:23:55
I'm allowed to yeah it's done it's usually when you say 1st is my normal time here you can let nano thing standard water. Oh I 01:24:03
will bang gavel guys no, I'll have to ask this one No just. 01:24:08
Umm, I, I just wanted to know if that was, you know, it's an option. It's an option. OK. Just want to make sure. I think I think 01:24:14
Bryce would use it maybe once or twice when people are like, really? Wow. 01:24:20
Yeah, I see. Yeah, I was. This is some of my favorite watcher. 01:24:25
Right now, those are my questions. Alright, thank you Tash. Umm, thank you guys for all your comments on that. Oh, and we're one 01:24:31
of the if if you know, you're bored and reviewing our zoning code someday. Any detections that you want us to kind of focus in 01:24:36
more on? I'm I'm having the exam more like I said, this is Part 1. We probably have another section equally big of other topics, 01:24:41
but we wanna bring to your attention umm. 01:24:47
But yeah, any, any suggestions anything like that, you're like, I think we need to tighten this up or loosen this up. We're we're 01:24:53
happy to to throw that in here. Cool. 01:24:57
Did you have any comments starting on that you wanted to? I have some questions. 01:25:02
Sorry it wasn't Vineyard resident umm, I just wanted to make sure I know where the regional commercial zone is. I'm I'm prepared 01:25:17
for that. OK, wonderful. I saw some at the beginning of my presentation now and have a little link here to a map. 01:25:26
Oh, I'm not sure my screen like bringing that up. Did you want to stay early questions or oh, who am I? Like I said, I was 01:25:36
prepared. 01:25:41
So anything you see in light blue is the regional commercial. So you have a big chunk up here, umm, right along Geneva Road and 01:25:48
800 N and as well as down here off of Geneva Rd. There's some sections that are regional commercial that are for the most part 01:25:54
built out. There are a few empty lots there. OK, OK. I was just curious. OK, thank you. 01:26:01
When you were talking about medical practitioners, umm, does that include massage? No, I, I believe we have a whole other section 01:26:11
on massage there. OK. I think is there only driving anything that's like a bike requires some sort of medical license or, or like 01:26:16
medical. Yeah, I'll, I'll make sure that, that we tighten up that, that definition of medical. OK, that's a good idea. OK. What 01:26:22
somebody who did to you know, we refuse to ask your, uh, issue a license to it was not, you know, it wasn't a doctor or somebody 01:26:28
who had to have a, a. 01:26:33
Certificate that we ruled as medical practice practice and they were saying it's not really and so that's where the issue was is 01:26:40
this medical or is it not when it was injecting you know somebody with something like we still have symmetrical oh like both of us 01:26:48
or something yeah OK just like it yeah juvenile OK I don't know but umm. 01:26:56
Let's see. Oh, so you were talking about farmers markets and. 01:27:05
Possibly arts and crafts festivals. Is that going to be, umm allowed in Utah City? 01:27:11
Yeah, umm, and, and I, I think like, that's not the problem now, is being, uh, set up so that that would definitely be like a 01:27:18
public space, OK. And yeah, So what we're talking about in this was for private spaces, so public spaces like Promenade and Grove 01:27:24
Park and stuff like that. 01:27:29
They both need to go through. Yeah. OK. And then you were talking about mobile, Mobile food courts near Vineyard Beach? Mm-hmm. 01:27:37
OK. 01:27:42
Umm, I've been to mobile through court in French Polynesia and they had pay plots, they had tables and chairs, they had lighting, 01:27:47
they had large trash dumpsters and bathrooms. 01:27:54
That's the bare minimum, yeah. Yeah. And so that's that's what the the supplementary development standards for these mobile food 01:28:03
Corps. 01:28:06
Food court is, is that we do want to see restrooms, especially if you have like employees that are working on just there and they 01:28:09
don't have a restroom. That's an issue. Umm, and same thing we, we, we did remove like ductless surface, right? As as long as 01:28:15
there's an improved parking surface of some sort, but there isn't just flying everywhere, you know, and, and remember, dustless 01:28:21
wasn't for the mobile food court, the mobile food court. 01:28:27
We are yeah, that was for temporary uses. I was saying mobile needs to be more permanent in nature, but just the hub in South 01:28:34
Jordan or the electricity, electricity and and yeah yeah, we we recommend more designing areas we wanna see all OK, absolutely OK 01:28:39
and then umm. 01:28:44
That's part of the single, umm. What do you call stores? What about type 2 parking? I mean you mentioned parking permit but with 01:28:51
those townhouses and condos? 01:28:59
How are you going to manage that? Because. 01:29:08
Some some have more than another. So so no townhome or condo would technically this would work for unless there's permanent on 01:29:11
site management. So you're like if you think of like late front account centers, they couldn't apply for type 2. 01:29:18
Because more planning, more parking is adequate parking. 01:29:52
Right. We're always looking for more parking, right? That's right. You said that last city, the last what I was looking for, umm, 01:29:57
it's already going to be a parking consultant by an anti. I have one more concern about the check cashing. Mm-hmm. 01:30:06
Things that similar with like sexually oriented businesses to plan for them. 01:30:46
So we, we just gotta cover ourselves to make sure that if they do, this is what they can do. Right. Well, Speaking of sexually 01:30:52
oriented businesses, restore an iPod against bikini cuts because it did not fit a community standard. And unfortunately, I don't, 01:30:59
I don't think that check cashing and title loans and all that kind of stuff is a good fit for Vineyard. Yeah, Yeah. But once 01:31:07
again, it's one of the things that if we don't have language in there, yeah. 01:31:14
You know, we can try to restrict. You're trying to cover yourself before. If you don't have anything, then they can't, then 01:31:22
they're gonna and then they're gonna be located right next to Chubby's in the yard, right? 01:31:28
Yeah, we, we can experience or whatever we can, OK, that, that's essentially what this is doing. And this is something Kelly our, 01:31:35
I don't think you've met her, but our business licensing person, she's phenomenal. And she kind of realized this was a big gap in 01:31:41
our, our use table. If we see this coming, we need to make sure we we have set standards, OK? But like you said, just to protect 01:31:47
our, our community standards that we do have. OK. So when are we gonna get a dry cleaner? That's what we need to dry, if you have 01:31:53
any suggestions. 01:31:59
Reach out to him. Yeah. We're, we're always happy to do that. Only we could pick as a city, like which business is like, yeah, you 01:32:05
know, you know, something that the community could use. I mean, a lot of men that wear suits around here. 01:32:12
Ties and all that kind of stuff. 01:32:21
So thank you very much, uh, mobile dry cleaners. 01:32:23
Sure. 01:32:29
Umm, the state of Utah have any laws regulating whether HOA can have rules on short term rentals? 01:32:30
Good question. I will because there's some states that have prohibited Hoas from making any decision one way or the other, and I'm 01:32:39
just curious if Utah has. 01:32:43
Because what I would hate is if we eventually grant all this and someone goes through the process of getting a license and then 01:32:50
Water's Edge or whatever and says, hey, it's illegal here, but the city says I can't Now you're in the battle with the Italy. And 01:32:57
so maybe an element that says, First off, do they need to get approval from day 2A? Get that before you. Yeah. Or if HOA can't do 01:33:04
anything, then it's. Yeah, we, we actually do have that, like with some of our building permits. When, when you build. 01:33:12
And, and waters that you actually do have to provide or, or an accessory dwelling or whatever to your house. You do have to 01:33:20
provide it an architectural letter from the HOA that says we improve over this. So we could, you know, do something like that if 01:33:25
needed. Umm, and we, we could sit down with some of the larger ways, take larger action and ask them what if, if anything, are you 01:33:30
guys doing to control personal? I don't think they're doing anything right now, but that makes good, right? Well, that's what I 01:33:36
would check with as well as. 01:33:41
The state, if the state has, yeah, I'll, I'll look into that. 01:33:46
All right. 01:33:51
Umm, staff permission committee report, we're doing a property rights training. No, no, yeah, I guess that kind of, uh, we, we 01:33:53
just want to bring that up all to your attention. Umm, I guess Price, you won't care so much on this because in January you'll no 01:33:59
longer be with us. Umm, but we will be doing a combined Planning Commission, City Council meeting, the, I believe on the eighth. 01:34:05
We're still waiting on the date to be confirmed. Umm, but we reached out to the state ombudsman, Property I ombudsman to come do a 01:34:11
training. He's done this. 01:34:17
So. 01:34:52
Cool, thanks for that. Everything that you yeah. So, umm, I just had to get to date from Pam Umm And when the City Council is, 01:34:52
which we have no approved the schedule for any of that yet. So I didn't wanna put a date out, but just to put it on your calendar 01:35:00
that there will be a dream most likely. And pretty much we will have the calendar. I don't know how you kind of asked me about the 01:35:07
calendar. Umm, we will have that probably for approval next Planning Commission meeting for the next for the following year. 01:35:14
Umm, it's been kind of long days, but and we still have, we still do have funding. So and if you, if the commissioners fine 01:37:22
training that you find umm as important and you you wanna wanna go, but let us know. We'll we're happy to to cover it. Cool. 01:37:28
Umm, one last thing that we are going to get all the planning commissioners emails and so I just need a defined list of who I 01:37:35
needed to get enrolled in an e-mail. So if you want to just reach out to me or I think this was kind of hard for us with you only 01:37:43
having two months left or do you want to have a Vineyard e-mail address? I'll stick with this vineyard, alright? 01:37:51
So everybody else, we are just for grandma was whenever you get e-mail, umm, it's technically people can request that, but rather 01:38:00
than it go to your personal e-mail or if you create your own for this, this position, umm, this way we'll just always have access 01:38:05
to those emails. Umm, it just makes it a lot easier on our end. So that's something we'll we'll probably be doing in the next few 01:38:11
weeks. We'll be working on getting you set up with that. 01:38:17
So make sure you check that e-mail address as well. 01:38:24
Perfect. Anything else from staff? 01:38:28
And. 01:38:32
You only have two rights left. Some point in this thing, it's got to bang the this is and it really is your time. That'll be 01:38:40
another opportunity. 01:38:47
I haven't been here this whole year and I disappeared this whole year. 01:38:57
Yeah. 01:39:03
The only, umm, I'm from the work engineering, I'm here. Umm, so Patrick, uh, Patrick is gone, uh, for, for the week, uh, he's done 01:39:06
a well deserved, uh, vacation with, uh, yeah. Well, the verification. So, uh, I'm grateful for going in for, uh, gratefully 01:39:12
selling it. So I'm sure you, uh, want to push that out to, uh, how much I appreciate, uh, all the work I've done. It says once 01:39:18
he's, uh, especially when he's not here. Umm, I appreciate he appreciated more, Uh, so, uh, other things, uh, contestation related 01:39:24
items, we're certainly working. 01:39:29
Transportation master plan we, we've talked about the, uh, roadway cross sections that better fit, uh, the needs of Vineyard city 01:39:36
and so forth, but also trying to align things with, uh, how other cities, umm, kinda like make sure there's a time with what other 01:39:44
cities does do as well with the grand with a grand salt on that. Uh, we're also working, uh, working our way through, uh, revising 01:39:51
and updating our standards and specifications for, uh, infrastructure as well. Umm, we're bringing. 01:39:59
Or as a consultant, uh, it's a phenomenal, uh, almost task force to the engineer. Uh, he's not a consultant, so he's gonna be, uh, 01:40:06
who a also led the way for, uh, the Utah American Public Works Association revamping uh, standards and, uh, with a, with a whole 01:40:14
hard concentration to aligning our specifications and standards, uh, in a more regional. 01:40:23
Base, umm, mindset, uh, obviously to make sure that we address within your city needs as well, but to ensure that when, uh, we 01:40:32
kinda like Legos, we connect, we connect we, our, our Lego pieces connect well with other Lego pieces. So once, uh, and when 01:40:38
residents then businesses and so forth go from 38 to Vineyard City that, you know that we have some consistency to make sure that 01:40:45
things are yeah easily being built because we often sometimes find issues with. 01:40:51
Uh, infrastructure and such, because, you know, people are just used to doing it a different way and it's kinda like hungry, we 01:40:58
teach them stuff. Uh, we're really looking towards improving our, improving those types of business practices to make sure to make 01:41:03
things better for people, uh, like. 01:41:08
Growth, which, uh, if the weather goes along the way, NS, umm, uh, if you drive on that, uh, whether it's on your, in your car or 01:41:13
on a bike and so forth, you'll find something that's missing. Uh, that thing missing is the natural speed pumps that were created 01:41:20
many, many years ago. Our street stand, umm, spent some last three, three days, uh, grinding those things out, umm, and hoping 01:41:27
that they're not like a worse thing comes back. 01:41:34
So now, you know, uh, obviously I lost a lot of people, a lot of people use the trails and so forth, but we, we understand that, 01:41:42
you know, uh, you know, providing a better, uh, better environment for everyone. 01:41:48
Is also a key talking about their environment. It was now it was stated in the last SDA council meeting, but it's kind of 01:41:55
reiterates that there's a phenomenal effort umm, of uh, the people's other works about uh, bringing umm, the Venner city, the one 01:42:02
veneer city quite known rail crossing over at 1600 N uh, by the public works building and Linden Marina up to the FRA standards, 01:42:10
uh, to ensure that tabs in your city does its. 01:42:17
Ensure that requires some gets we established, uh, throughout the, uh, Salt Lake City, UT Valley, uh, corridor on that and, you 01:42:25
know, uh, waiting to see about the other cities as well, But that, and that was also at no, uh, without the great help. 01:42:32
Definitely, uh, uh, ETA Utah transit for you. 01:42:40
That's when we were able to go out. We were doing it in accordance to umm, the umm. 01:42:49
Federal, state accountants and instrument, we were able to get to work. So I definitely wanted to take through those and those 01:42:56
types of relationships, the relationships that we build on working with them on trails and so forth and such has really been able 01:43:05
to provide just positive impacts to being able to get the job done in other areas. So let's go on here. So great, thanks. Alright. 01:43:13
That's everything. 01:43:23
Is there anything else? No. 01:43:26
OK, thanks. Yes, that's everything then, uh, meetings are. Thanks everybody. 01:43:33
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Welcome everybody. Today is October 16th, 2024. It is 6:01 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. Uh, we'll get 00:00:02
things going and they can still invocation. 00:00:09
We'll do the information about that. 00:00:15
We can be here together and discuss the needs of our communities and we create them out so that we can review and kind of one 00:00:20
another as we discuss these needs and come up with pushing the recommendations that better serve our interests. We're grateful for 00:00:27
our multi lending to Jesus Christ. 00:00:35
I'm doing it in two reply. I'm going to be out of the United States of the United States of America. 00:00:48
Thank you very much. How much is 10100 and Justice for All? 00:00:56
That's nice. All right, we'll move right into public comment. Sorry. You got anything? 00:01:03
I just about the work sounds good. All right, umm and we'll move right into business items 4.2 the rezone and zoning text 00:01:09
amendment of the 145 thousand property. This has actually been resolved. So they pulled their application. Yes, they pulled the 00:01:17
application. So there's actually not going to be anything today do any of the different. 00:01:25
That's working. OK. Uh, then we'll move right into work, right into the work session for the 2024 zoning text amendment overhaul. 00:01:35
We wanna do umm, so this is kind of the first take it at some of the sections we wanted to review with you. Umm, and with this 00:02:12
being a work session, umm, we see this environment, you know, whenever you do have comments, please stop me and you know, provide 00:02:18
any kind of suggestion feedback inside anything like that and I'm happy to entertain that. 00:02:24
Umm, here's a summary. Umm, also just a little background I, I put in that bottom right corner to the numbers, so like 1512050 00:02:31
umm, and just what the numbers refer to often times, uh, in planets weekly, you mentioned these things about one extent and what, 00:02:36
what that means. So the first 2 numbers is going to be the title. In this case it's, it's the zoning code. Umm, the second two 00:02:42
numbers are going to be the chapter. So we, we group umm, different sections into these chapters and then the last three numbers 00:02:48
are going to be the section so. 00:02:53
Umm but yeah, I will just go through each one of these. Like I said, feel free to to stop and and ask any questions or anything 00:03:00
like that or provide suggested. 00:03:04
So first one, umm, this is used table, umm, so the, the distance use table is just a, a table, umm, that that shows the city and 00:03:10
our planners and applicants the, the different allowed uses that we have in the in the city in each zone. Umm, the suggested 00:03:17
changes so far as we're looking at adding two different uses of check cashing, umm, which would be conditional use in the regional 00:03:25
commercial zone and then mobile food court, which would be conditional use in the regional execution. Umm, I'll get. 00:03:32
Definition umm later on as I have a, a breakdown of of what these these pieces are umm, and if you have questions, the, the 00:03:39
regional commercial zone right now is essentially, uh, to the northeast of 800 N and the partner station. A lot of that is 00:03:46
regional commercial as well as where the umm across the street from. 00:03:53
So. So not not cooked. Oh yeah. 00:04:02
Over there, it's also regional commercial, and then they make the regional mix to use that think like just each side of the Hill 00:04:08
Rd. track on Mill Rd. Most of that bizarre. I mean, umm, yeah, yeah, the yard. 00:04:15
OK, so, uh, the next section is going to be allowed temporary uses and development standards. Temporary use is just any use that 00:04:22
an applicant, uh, proposes that less than 60 days. Umm, so we included exemptions in this for shaved ice in farmers markets, umm, 00:04:28
that we would allow those from April first to October 31st without, umm, you know, going beyond that, that 60 days, it kind of 00:04:34
falls outside. Temporary is also not affirmative. So we felt creating exemptions with, with uh, supplementary development 00:04:40
standards for those uses. 00:04:46
Yeah, yeah. 00:04:52
Uh, yeah. So my question is, those are very specific, umm, particularly shaped ice, umm, and I totally understand the need for 00:04:56
umm, temporary or seasonal exemptions and that I totally support. I just worry if someone comes up with an Italian ice chat 00:05:04
because we think shaved ice, so it's not permitted or we need to go back and update the code yet again. 00:05:12
I'm thinking some kind of mobile food vendor, you know, something that's written a bit more vague so we don't need to come back 00:05:21
and update it. Yeah. 00:05:25
Kind of food truck thrown into that category. OK, I like that. 00:05:33
Property to states before they were there after 24 hours after the department expires. 00:06:09
Where this is any kind of pulled up permission special event or a temporary, yeah. So if you think yeah, yeah. If you think about 00:06:17
like a lot of people across from the HBA building, we have that dirt lock there. There's a lot of people that that put a firework 00:06:24
stand or umm, you know, they could put up a shade back stand there, umm, as a temporary use, umm. 00:06:31
And so this is citywide. Anything that that you want to do is a temporary use would have to follow these these standards. 00:06:39
Certainly images, for example, a small business owner, temporary seasonal, uh, approaching. 00:06:47
A vacant lot and it's been there anywhere. That's what we're applying yeah yeah. And currently they, they, most businesses, most 00:06:55
temporary uses are going to be 60 days maximum, right. Umm, and so that's where the exec exemptions would come in where, umm, you 00:07:02
know, we did a generic dessert truck or something like that and, and uh, uh, farmers markets, they could go beyond those 60 days. 00:07:10
So it kind of creates more of this like temporary seasonal use, umm. 00:07:17
While just keeping it in that temporary use category. 00:07:24
Yeah, so. 00:07:28
Umm, these more or less temporary uses to kind of establish a restaurant or whatever without providing. 00:08:01
Yeah, yeah, I mean, they have to go through the work to do tenant improvement. They have staff rooms, they have trash cans, they 00:08:09
have all these things. Meanwhile, somebody could just pull up in a truck and stuff and or I say guys or whatever it may be. So we, 00:08:14
we have seen, uh, had some complaints and so we just wanted to, to get ahead of that thing with farmers markets. We've, we've 00:08:19
heard a lot from, umm, the Utah City folks about the potential of putting in a farmers market in the Utah city, like in the 00:08:24
promenade or something. 00:08:29
Creating those standards so that in the future, if we do have that, we have it in place and we aren't having to react to to 00:08:35
something like that. So and, and the other thing I should say we, we did a lot of benchmarking umm, and just looked at other 00:08:41
cities codes, right and uh found that this is pretty much the standard throughout the, the region was, umm, having these 00:08:47
exemptions in place in these requirements. OK, umm. 00:08:53
Makes total sense to me. Uh, I'm just hoping that our expectation of restoring everything. 00:09:01
Back to its original condition within 24 hours is reasonable, particularly if we're asking them to make a quote. Improved parking 00:09:09
surface that is deskless. Umm, OK. I just wanna make sure we're getting reasonable. I don't wanna be overly burdensome for 00:09:16
something that overall is a benefit to our community, such as our farmers market. It gets people out and active. Umm, I don't 00:09:22
know. I mean, I'm not being the minority on that. I agreeable. 00:09:29
All right, I, I just kinda help to think about the, uh, approval that we just made on 1600 N for the Event Center there and they 00:09:37
have a dirt parking lot. OK, so how do we define? Yeah, yeah. So how do we define desk list exactly? Umm, I, I do believe it's, I 00:09:44
mean in here it says such as gravel or asphalt. Mm-hmm. Umm, so that, that's essentially kind of the standard that we'd be looking 00:09:51
at. They, they could potentially pose something that's similar to CRA. 00:09:59
Like a decomposed grant or whatever. So this is what we're wanting to do. Umm, and, and I'd be fine with that. It's just asking 00:10:07
them picking that up within 24 hours is in my opinion, a huge ask. OK, yeah. And maybe I could put in language into that. Uh, the, 00:10:13
the cleaning up section where it's more of like removes any nuisances such as trash or umm, sometimes you'll have like if people 00:10:19
put up a sign or a tent or something, they put stakes in the ground and they don't remove those stakes. They can create like a 00:10:25
tripping hazards or, uh. 00:10:30
Tire or something so I I could include that one with more just like cleaned up nuisances of trash or debris. That would be better. 00:10:37
I I like that definitely. 00:10:41
Perfect. I'm always amazed that the, the feedback I get, like I read through this, I'm like, oh, you know, this is perfect. And 00:10:49
then it's like, Oh yeah, there's a lot of things that, that we missed, but it's healthy to have these, these conversations and 00:10:56
dialogue consciousness. So other cities that have maybe a longer time period, No, 24 hours was pretty standard. Umm, there, there 00:11:03
are some cities that I, I didn't include this, but some cities will have a, uh, temporary permit bond. 00:11:10
That they have to pay for they'll, they'll give the city like $500 umm, and then the city will get that back to them after the 00:11:17
the, you know, we can go out and approve that it's been cleaned up and, and for January yeah and the, the issue with that, it does 00:11:24
just create a lot more work, right. It means that we now have to create this new process. You have to amend the fee schedule, 00:11:30
which is things that we can do umm, if we're interested in pursuing that umm I, I. 00:11:37
Seen a scale of deposits everywhere I've seen that's required deposit, but then the scale changes based off it if it's a minor or 00:11:44
a danger special event. I don't know if we're gonna get into those leads right now, if we're at the point yet where we need to 00:11:49
differentiate between major and minor. 00:11:53
When it comes to the temporary from what we're talking about right now. 00:11:59
Umm, it's a maximum period of 60 days, yes, right, OK. 00:12:05
Yeah, and, and I imagine right now that we, we just haven't had the issue. But if, if somebody did, let's say they, they have a 00:12:11
temporary use and they just kind of track the property, you just go to our normal code enforcement measures where we would send 00:12:18
them letters of violation that, that includes fees, Umm, and, and we also do have the ability to abate the issue, umm, if needed 00:12:24
and send them the bill for the, the cost to, to do that. Umm, but we, we could look into doing a bond. 00:12:31
Probably something to UMM that we need to do it to tap our uses is decide how we want to handle UMM. 00:12:39
The drive throughs so if you look at. 00:12:45
One of these sections or maybe it's in the mobile 2 sports section addresses. I'm sorry the staples backward by me. So that's how 00:12:53
a printer does it. Cash described the bond versus maybe a deposit. Would that even be a possibility Yeah it's essentially the same 00:13:02
thing. Umm the bond They would generally like get to like a lender somewhere and then they just yeah insurance and provider. 00:13:12
And then they provide that proof to us and say this person has deposited this money into our account for this purpose. And then 00:13:22
what happens is after the inspection, we allow them to release that balance and give them that that money back to traditionally 00:13:28
allow bonds for less than $1000. 00:13:33
Umm, I, that's kind of outside room. I I, we don't deal with them too much, especially since we've kind of removed our ability to 00:13:40
bond for landscaping. 00:13:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:49
No, but I I think at least what I found in temperament is that there is a bonds to see if the money online, it definitely 00:13:53
encourages umm absolutely a better result. And I think if it is limited to debris, snakes, nuisances, 24 hours is totally 00:13:58
reasonable, Yeah. 00:14:04
Is there a maximum of 60 consecutive days or 60 days in a year or Uh, yeah, I believe it is 60 days in a calendar year is how it's 00:14:41
said. OK. Because I, I believe that one of the, the most frequent, umm, uses of these, these temporary use permits is fireworks 00:14:47
stands, umm, where they are open, you know, that's actually state law, what they can be open and selling stuff for, but they apply 00:14:53
for these and then they're open the first part of July and then the last part of June. And then sometimes they'll open up around 00:14:59
New Year's. 00:15:05
So if I wanted to run a year long farmers market that's available every Saturday that works at 52 Saturdays, yes yeah, I guess 00:15:11
that works. So how would that So how would a situation like that work for the 24 hour permit expiration? So they just have to 00:15:19
reapply for every single umm, I I should talk to Kelly. I'll try to Kelly about that. She's our business license person. Well, she 00:15:26
just tells me to go inspect. Usually the the the fireworks stands we've seen and then here they just they will. 00:15:33
Not take down their site until after the July 24th date right now. And then we go to our inspection. So it's within that 60 days. 00:15:41
I don't, I don't know if we've had any set up for New Year's or not. Yeah, if we care. And I'm not saying if we do, we're not. 00:15:48
Umm, I've also seen ordinances that say for a maximum period of 60 days. 00:15:55
Including no more than anyone stretch of time longer than consecutive. You know, something like that. You could I, I think our 00:16:04
code has something, if I wasn't using the free division, I could look into it further. But I, I do think our code has something 00:16:09
like that. But I'm sure, I'm sure there is somewhere in the definition. So yeah. 00:16:15
Umm and the last one on this. 00:16:23
Maybe it would get rid of some of my concerns just getting rid of the word just list and have parking just include an element of 00:16:26
dust control in their proposal. 00:16:31
OK, Umm, yeah. So we're just, this is just a work session. It's the first part of it. 00:16:38
Yeah, this is just a work session. We're just going over, umm, some of the zoning checks, uh. 00:16:47
Nathan. 00:16:58
I think I don't forget. 00:17:00
Yeah, we're, we're just going over the sections of zoning codes that, that we found throughout the year that we're wanting to make 00:17:03
some changes to work. But yeah, we, we do have, there are some pretty, uh, hot topics that we'll see. I think it's towards the 00:17:07
end. 00:17:12
You may not believe, OK, OK, so the next section is supplementary standards. Umm, these, these are some uh, like development 00:17:21
standards for specific pieces. Umm, so we are looking into requirements site plans, umm, that would be administratively approved, 00:17:28
not necessarily given to the defining Commission, just be part of that temporary use permit. 00:17:35
Umm, it would require site plans for farmers markets and fireworks stands. Umm, that would just show us their parking and show us 00:17:43
the trash. It would show us restrooms, these types of things that, that we generally aren't uh, getting right now on these 00:17:49
temporary use permits. Umm, and then the other one that, that I just wanted to maybe have a brief conversation on is carnivals. I 00:17:55
have seen a lot of cities put carnivals and specific, uh, development standards with those. Umm, I, I don't imagine when we'll get 00:18:01
too many private property. 00:18:07
Are you carnivals in the city? Most of the time it's like dinner days where we're going through special event permit and we're 00:18:13
happy to treat it that way. But we're also OK to look into creating this section in temporary use as well. But we we right now we 00:18:20
haven't really done any research on that. Yeah. Anything on growth part even if it's by a private entity because it's on a public 00:18:27
park. It's not necessarily in this definition. Yeah and and and they go through a separate. 00:18:34
We have an event process that that seems like the intervals go through where they're, they're making sure that we get approvals 00:18:42
for insurance and everything like that for carnivals. So the impact and parking plans for them. 00:18:47
I remember somebody wanted to do that with you resurrected me, like come in with it. Umm, just it's because we don't really have a 00:18:54
lot of land here because we can do that. But umm, it was really high important to me. Didn't do that. I guess that now, now that 00:18:59
you. Yeah. 00:19:03
And they set up a full carnival esque and farmers market and there were many, many other issues that came with it, but it caused 00:19:10
quite a an issue. Yeah, yeah. And that. And that's, that's a great point to, you know, why we could create these things. Maybe 00:19:15
there's something where it's like. 00:19:20
Neighborhood car or something like that. Umm, whereas because I, I don't believe in fitting more processes for like vineyard base. 00:19:26
But you're right there. There's another, there's a big carnival that happens every year in form. It's somebody private property 00:19:31
where they bought an extra lot and they essentially turned it into this carnival once a year. And you know, they really do have to 00:19:36
like shut down the whole neighborhood because it's just past umm. 00:19:41
Under a certain amount of people, right. Uh, for you, even that we, uh, we had someone else talking about potentially doing like 00:20:17
those festivals, umm, but it would be on private property. And so she, she's gonna look into that. We might wanna maybe, yeah, we 00:20:24
could even maybe just put a, a note here that says carnivals and festivals require special parts on it. Yeah. And she was not 00:20:31
mentioning if it requires like, uh, traffic control and public driveway and that, that could trigger, umm, a permit. 00:20:38
Umm, anything that could affect right of way or if it's on public property, state lands, that kind of stuff, umm, but it gets a 00:20:45
little bit more, umm, unclear on traffic. Yeah, yeah. I mean, defining stuff can be difficult too, because, I mean, we'll have to 00:20:52
say something that's testable or just the party, house party. Yeah, yeah. So I, I think the impact is a good way of doing that 00:21:00
work. It does impact to have about the same attendance. 00:21:07
Yeah. And along those same notes though, if you have to catch all within carnival vegetables, pachanga, whatever you wanna call 00:21:18
it, any other materials that the plan are being necessary to ensure access and safety, that's a great catch all. So just make sure 00:21:23
that's in there. 00:21:29
Umm, I wanna make sure we're using terms like farmers market, fireworks and carnivals do have definitions for all of those. Most 00:21:37
of them we do, but I, I'll, I'll double check all of our definitions. 00:21:43
OK. Does that depending on definitions and stuff, you may want to change farmers market to public market. Yeah, I'm not a farmer, 00:21:52
I'm not sure. 00:21:57
OK, the the next section, temporary use exemptions. So these are things that are temporary that don't require any kind of permit 00:22:03
right now. We currently have like family reunion in there. Umm, I looking at other codes found that oftentimes cities will include 00:22:07
garage sales. So I just create a standard in there and you'll see that there is one which that says the account operates longer 00:22:12
than five things. 00:22:17
In a calendar year, they kind of struck the sidewalk for public products with there's been some, you know, normal story of code 00:22:22
enforcement officers going to shut down a garage sale so they don't have a permit. And that was really bad on the city. So I 00:22:28
didn't just kind of covering ourselves here and putting in that exemption here to allow that use is good. So at with this, I'm 00:22:35
going to express the pet peeve. If no one else shares it, it's not a sword I'll die on. 00:22:41
I cannot stand when there are yard sale signs throughout a neighborhood, either a fixed to public telephone call or whatever it 00:22:48
is. 00:22:53
That is maintained by the public and then now there's sticky residue on it afterwards. Is there any language or any desire to say 00:22:58
no off site sign that? So yeah, I, I couldn't do that here. But it is also code in our time code. It says no, no time that ever 00:23:04
allowed anywhere. OK good. So we, we try our best to, to pull these signs, but I mean, if we pull one down 10 more show up. 00:23:10
Mm-hmm. Umm. And oftentimes a lot of garage sale friends will put them up on a Friday evening or something for the garage sale on 00:23:16
Saturday and. 00:23:22
Person doesn't work Saturday, so you know that there's ways around it, but we, we do try it back, OK. Just if it's already in 00:23:28
there, then we're good. Thanks. I, yeah, I mean, well, you know, I, I could include that. I'm just saying no thanks. But if it's 00:23:32
redundant. 00:23:36
OK, home occupation. So this is one that we have had some issues with umm, in the past and so we just wanted to kind of re examine 00:23:42
this. Umm So home occupation is just a secondary use of a home for somebody lives in their home and they wanna maybe have an 00:23:47
office where they cut hair or umm, whatever it may be. Umm So things that we've done is we've included definitions. We have very 00:23:53
vague definitions before. 00:23:58
We included a statement about aggregate impact. So somebody has multiple home, umm, business licenses. We say your impact can be 00:24:04
greater than what is allowed, right? You can't have one impact or one license that has this impact and one license that has this 00:24:11
impact. We're going to say those two cannot see, umm, the standards. Umm, we included group instruction as a, a new use. We, we 00:24:17
haven't had anything like that. So somebody wanna do like music lessons, umm, where they have, you know. 00:24:24
Uh, I should just have to share, but you know, more than one customer in their home, you know, whether it's sibling is going to 00:24:32
place you on or whatever it may be, they could not do that. 00:24:37
Umm, we add some language about non supplies and how the city can enforce that. And then we did modify the language about 00:24:43
multifamily parking requirement. We've had some umm, issues when we're issuing licenses where some of you will say, you know, 00:24:50
they, they live in a, a multi family development and they'll say, well, this is my parking stall and we have 30 visitor parking 00:24:57
stalls. Umm, and so we, we did make some modifications to allow them to umm, where we're only going to require them to provide. 00:25:03
Two designated parking spots for the business. 00:25:11
Umm because that's generally what we re require for single family loan. 00:25:14
So if there's any of these sections that you want me to get more, I'm happy to do that. Umm. 00:25:19
But one thing to note with non compliance, it was kind of confusing me. And this is where we, we've had some issues and we've had 00:25:27
to go through uh, uh, umm, hearing, umm is because it used to say that these are, you know, not permitted uses for home occupation 00:25:34
and investment, hiring office kennel or any similar Animal Services and medical practitioners all in one line. And so we just 00:25:41
split medical practitioners off of that because the argument was just sentence here talking purely about animals. 00:25:49
Stop Medical Practitioners doesn't really fit in here, so we just want to make that very clear that we don't want somebody, umm, 00:25:56
doing a medical clinic from their home, umm. 00:26:02
Actually, that's just, yeah, umm, we, we have had, uh, examples of, of doctors who do fight for business licenses for home 00:26:08
occupations where they're doing telehealth. And then that instance we're OK because they aren't treating any, any patients. It's a 00:26:13
non impact. You know, they're, they're just in their office taking calls and then we don't have issues with that. But it's when 00:26:19
they start practicing medicine on people in their basement. 00:26:24
Little little hairy. 00:26:30
Umm, so is there any any of these that. 00:26:34
So I need to go more details on. 00:26:40
Move on. Grocery facilities. So this is just any, you know, restaurant with the drive through. We've had language that queuing 00:26:44
lanes cannot be located near the primary pedestrian entrance. Let me focus just a bit more and I apologize the packet I gave you 00:26:50
is a little out of order. 00:26:57
That's that's a printer for me. 00:27:07
OK, OK. 00:27:12
Public streets that they can contain it within it development or property. Umm and then we're no longer going to allow Dr. 00:27:44
throughs to be permitted in front of buildings. So that's something we currently do allow umm and we we do want to strike that 00:27:51
from from the allowed use. Would this be applicable to every zoning district? Yes, and this would be from 1:00. 00:27:58
OK. Is this consistent with the proposed ordinance that we considered at our last meeting? 00:28:07
Umm, the technically, because we are, you know with that we are requiring them to do a traffic impact study for that drive through 00:28:16
at the pharmacy, umm. 00:28:20
Uh, it doesn't, Yeah, same thing. It's not located near the primary pedestrian entrance of the grocery store. That is, you know, 00:28:26
it's once again the car because we're not supposed to relate that code to the site plan itself. But yeah, it does. I, I'll, I'll 00:28:32
double check and make sure they aren't. There isn't anything conflicting. So here's where I'm going with it. Umm. 00:28:38
In the proposed #2 it says traffic traffic impact study. All development proposing a traffic Dr. proposing a drive through shall 00:28:45
require traffic impact study and updated traffic effect study. The city engineer may weigh the requirements for a traffic impact 00:28:51
study. 00:28:57
Wow, I 99% of the time, and I wanna get everyone's thought on this, say yeah, I want to allow staff to have the ability to be 00:29:04
flexible. You know that at our last one, we made it pretty darn clear. If you're getting a an exception to a zoning district where 00:29:14
the exception, that zoning district says no Dr. Throughs, you can get an exception if you meet this criteria. I don't want. 00:29:23
Them to then go to this other section of the code and say, look, we're allowed to waive it. 00:29:34
Line it's very clear the only reason you're getting an exception is if you're satisfying does that make sense I agree on that too 00:29:39
I, I, I think maybe it's a requirement, but you should require it for for all the the same similar use I mean it's, it's not like 00:29:45
Fiat has anything different than we are, but still the, the impact of the drive through is gonna be very similar regardless of 00:29:51
which location you you might as well be consistent in your triggering McDonald's as soon as you are uh pharmacies, I'm trying to 00:29:57
think of any circumstance when. 00:30:03
We would waive a traffic impact analysis or study for a drive through and I think. 00:30:09
Yeah, we have two different things. Yeah, 'cause he's just only just strike. He didn't strike that. I want to get everyone's 00:30:18
opinion on that. Uh, yeah, I, I agree. I agree with that. There was also something else that I wanted to point out. It's just no 00:30:24
longer allowed directors to be permitted in front of the building. What are we defining as the front? So to the yard, for example, 00:30:29
you have, uh. 00:30:35
Something that's facing Mill Road and something that's also facing the main center where people are walking and stuff. What's 00:30:40
considered? Yeah, I know that that has been a challenge, right? It's, it's because a lot of people think the front of the building 00:30:46
is like where the pedestrian generally parked and walked in, right? Yeah. Umm. And then in that industry, we're trying to protect 00:30:51
that from the bottom of that building so that there's no drive people walking that off, is it? But also. 00:30:57
Right. We're we're trying to build up next to the street and so that if someone's walking on the sidewalk, they can just walk 00:31:04
right into the building. Umm So, umm, the team has something on this, but this is something that we'll, we'll, we'll look into 00:31:08
more and maybe put a specific definition of what that looks like. 00:31:12
I guess I'm seeing the door blower structure here, but this guy makes comment in regards to the traffic starting traffic impact, 00:31:19
like in regards to that like waving it before. I think there was one time there was a time where the traffic impact study would be 00:31:26
maybe required by the engineer and I think we it was changed to be would be waived by the engineer like instances where it's 00:31:32
required, but it could be waived. 00:31:39
The only instances that umm uh uh, things like that would be waited. 00:31:46
Uh, for example, and it's not just, uh, iCloud for traffic impact study, but uh, for other things where that just there was like 00:31:51
a, uh, for example, uh, a traffic master plan was done for a, uh, for plan development to say that we did a plan development, we 00:31:57
did it, uh, a transportation on the traffic master plan for the whole development. And in that case, uh, while you're, uh, while 00:32:03
you're doing each our parcel for that, for that particular development regardless, it might be, they might sell off to one, uh, 00:32:09
one another builder and so forth. 00:32:15
Things in that master plan concept construct and those were the instances of release. Uh, it would be waived. Another example of 00:32:21
the environmental impact failures, uh, I've done them, uh, in federal government where we've had like, uh, uh, developing, like 00:32:28
our redeveloping in 2000 acres of old, uh, World War 2, uh, uh, facilities. And we would do an impact environmental impact study 00:32:36
and it was following these constructs aware, uh, as long as we're abiding to our, to the, to the main master finance. 00:32:43
A an EIS environmental impact for every single one does not, did not have to be constituted for one. So those would be the really 00:32:51
emphasis on that and having that flexibility to me would just allow a staff to be able to make those just makes sense. 00:32:59
If it's required every single time and they're working, I would say it was a burden on the developers. It's not saying that I 00:33:11
don't mind that. Yeah, no, I, I, I mind it. Umm, and I, I don't wanna make our developers incurring the expenses that aren't 00:33:18
necessary because developers aren't made of money, unlike some of us think that they are. Simply not the case. So I don't wanna 00:33:25
create any unnecessary burdens. Umm, my concern with one of the examples you brought up was if I created a big commercial. 00:33:32
Flat and I show where my commercial pads are. I might have had a study done that didn't consider that pad X has a drive through. 00:33:40
But now, lo and behold, Chick-fil-A is coming. I'm not going to say no to fruit and Chick-fil-A, but Chick-fil-A does not have the 00:33:47
impact of Chick-fil-A. Exactly none of those things where instance where and again. 00:33:53
Yeah. 00:34:02
And then I, I want, I wanna ask my time and I'll give one more example where we're currently doing that. For example, from water, 00:34:04
uh, we're Stillwater long term stormwater master plan that we currently have on the table. Uh, it's required by our MS-4 municipal 00:34:10
Stonewall or something company service. Mm-hmm. I hold the name, but already do like a regional, like a developer does a regional. 00:34:16
Uh, uh, retention system and every time they're, and then what we do, uh, required for developer and just recently had a 00:34:23
conversation last week as, as they're developing each one to keep like, uh, we put the owners on the developer keep track of like 00:34:29
what their impacts are for that, for that system and, umm, to keep track and submit to us every single time you, of course, you go 00:34:35
check on it, but for that thing and on there. And then one, uh, aspect that could be on is could be way by city engineer, but umm, 00:34:41
we get this in my last city, but. 00:34:47
You know, I won't open the door because it requires us to park, uh, to work with our solo planners with, uh, up and down to the, 00:34:53
you know, to be, uh, recommended by the city planner and waived by the city engineer. So put the check and balances and that's 00:34:59
what the city planner is like. Hey, you know, we think this constitutes, uh, constitutes that. And then the engineer will be like, 00:35:05
yeah, we agree with you on that. But again, uh, I'm not gonna post through the state. Everyone just does it regardless. No, I OK, 00:35:11
I'll know. 00:35:16
What we could do is maybe just instead of vaguely saying, sitting in camera with the requirements, say. 00:35:22
If these conditions, not these conditions are under the circumstances, umm, because, uh, because it's, it's like a, so the, uh, 00:35:29
the TIS is being required, but it's not like the master development side. It seems like the pharmacy kind of wanted the main 00:35:35
attentions were looking not just at like the overall traffic, like account and volume, but it was looking at the impact like the 00:35:41
queueing distance. And then maybe there's something. So if the team has the authority to say, well, you don't need to do a full 00:35:46
blown, it's the TIS. 00:35:52
We want we want a traffic engineer to submit a human study. So it it's basically amended it a little bit to fit the actual some 00:35:58
kind of analysis of the traffic impact. Whatever form that takes a letter from a licensed engineer that says I don't see an issue 00:36:04
and that is that is in the code or in the suggested edit is that it says an alternative to the traffic impact. So it would 00:36:11
require. 00:36:17
Analysis. 00:36:24
So I just want to make them. Maybe I'm meeting it today. Umm. 00:36:26
So I, I don't wanna have the language be so they that 20 years from now gonna have a city engineer that doesn't have the same 00:36:33
force or engineer. And they they exist. And the opportunity for me not to renew something. Yeah, that's why I wanna make sure we 00:36:39
we have a few sections of code where it says like parking requirements and it's like it shall be determined by the city clients. 00:36:45
That's it. 00:36:51
And now that's coming to buy before we do have some, some development coming on, right. Hey, you can determine what parking is. 00:36:58
Mostly we're at the point where we say, well, look at the parking code and that'll tell you what the parking requirement is about 00:37:04
that. So we can do that for that one, providing the tools first. Yeah, OK. 00:37:10
Talking too much, OK, uh, getting back to these were the, the new uses that I mentioned in the, the umm, district use table. We 00:37:17
have the check cashing and other credit services. So this is any kind of financial institution except for banks and credit unions. 00:37:23
And there is a very specific definition for this that we got from the state. Umm, but this has development standards, umm, such as 00:37:29
separation requirement. We don't want to see one of these on, you know, five in a row in one building or something. So there's a 00:37:34
separation requirement. 00:37:40
Umm, assistance, they, they have to be from one another. Umm, limiting the quantity based off the population. I believe that's 00:37:46
one, one, uh, business per 10,000 people. Umm, and then we, like I said, included that definition and at the very end of half of 00:37:50
these definitions. 00:37:55
And our attorney said, we're just putting those restrictions on specifically from Aaron promo, their code, umm, and they, they 00:38:01
have these restrictions. And we will, you know, once we, we've got the final draft stage, we'll send this to the, our attorney to 00:38:06
review umm, and then make sure he, he's good with that. 00:38:11
Uh, this is mobile food court. Umm, this is one that we probably should ask yet when we do the pause here, yeah, yeah, we'll 00:38:19
probably have Jamie. Umm, so this is something we, we examined. I think it was mostly felt like say is the city that has the most 00:38:26
developed code on this, but in this case, the development standards, we want to see a site plan. Umm, so essentially mobile food 00:38:33
court is any time that there are more than I believe it's three food trucks in one parcel or property. 00:38:40
Umm, we would require conditional use permit so we could get the vector eyes on the, you know, the finance Commission to review 00:39:18
these, umm, and approve them. And I, I honestly don't imagine we'll see too many mobile food courts come into the city. Umm, but 00:39:24
still just kind of cover up and then that definition. So I think, uh, as far as no Dr. throughs, I think. 00:39:29
If they came with a plan that can show that they structure isn't gonna impact any other properties and some kind of guarantee to 00:39:36
that. I think that having directly fine is, is just maybe one of those things to umm, where the brick and mortar guys are putting 00:39:44
the landscaping, the buffer and all, all those requirements that umm, we have in our drive through ordinance and so. 00:39:52
OK, OK. And we, we just we have a developer approaches. I'm about to build this multi tenant building for restaurant space. But if 00:40:31
you guys are allowing this type of use with Dr. throughs, I'm just gonna do that. And I can get three Dr. throughs on my site 00:40:39
without putting the landscaping or any kind of improvement. And that's where I'm alright. So we don't mobile drive because we 00:40:46
don't become a food truck city. So what I propose is don't pay no Dr. throughs, just hold them to the same. 00:40:54
Standard, and I say this because there's some really successful mobile food courts where they have barely like clearly laid out 00:41:01
salt and and and then we get to change the vendor outlook depending on if they're leasing spaces and some of them have very 00:41:08
clearly laid out Dr. throughs. 00:41:15
Umm, I think something like that would be fantastic for the city. So I don't wanna outright ban them. So I'm fine withholding them 00:41:24
to the exact same standards. So under the temporary use, may we add a section that says, umm, any temporary uses with a drive 00:41:29
through shall here to section and then we put the drive through section and so there's that cross reference and then they we have 00:41:35
that same level of scrutiny that a brick and mortar. So to kinda get to to as well. Yeah, people are fine with that. I think that 00:41:40
sounds great, yeah. 00:41:46
Yeah, if they're if they're holding same standards for the landscaping that drive through in the queue and everything. 00:41:52
To umm, umm, place food options out near the, the beach. It's getting more and more cloudy, even without improvements. But you go 00:42:29
out there on a Saturday and there's nice weather is packed. And so, but being able to provide, uh, a mobile food court, which is, 00:42:36
umm, has the infrastructure it's set up. So it's nice. There's places where, umm, where, where the, the food trucks. So we are 00:42:44
looking at a spot for, for one, if, if we were to do 1 by the, by the beach area and umm, parking wise it, it would. 00:42:51
And that would be more on public land, but parking wise, we would be utilizing all that's a street parking that's going to be 00:42:59
built built into it right there. So I wouldn't necessarily throw a mobile food truck. Umm, if there's parking available, then 00:43:06
maybe like a parking analysis is required. Umm, that, that that we can analyze per food shortcut at food court. But it might be 00:43:13
hard to have like a blanket parking requirement depending on the, you know, the size or what Lucy and offers I. 00:43:21
Feel that the discussion about mobile food courts that alone could be a 45 minute discussion on what could be permitted not 00:43:29
permitted what we want them to look like umm because when done right Oh yeah umm and so I wanna make sure we're putting it we're 00:43:36
structuring it in such a way that we're setting the table yeah one one other step that we're gonna take is we actually wanna reach 00:43:43
out to you know some. 00:43:51
Truck banners in Vineyard, bring them into a meeting and meet with us and, and go over these standards and, and get their feedback 00:43:59
on them. Umm, we understand some might not be too happy if we're gonna say you need to provide bathrooms or safe parking. Umm, but 00:44:04
we do want to have a better understanding from them as well. Like some things that they, they, they're willing to provide and 00:44:09
bring to the site. Just, I mean, it makes everything a much better experience if there is delineated parking and seating and that, 00:44:14
that kind of stuff. 00:44:19
So something we talked about a long time ago when we were discussing, uh, growth, parking done, uh, was the city. 00:44:25
Like providing or even leasing out spaces that a food truck could come and be at a public space. Is there any I'm glad you 00:44:34
actually mentioned this. I it was actually going back to the shape. I think I did. I'm not the shade guys completely reached out 00:44:40
and said, hey, we're interested in in racing up some space from park for the just next year. So umm, and it's currently not 00:44:46
allowed in our policy. So I did reach out to our partners manager just said, hey, what's what's going on here? And he said that it 00:44:52
is his his goal before the spring to get. 00:44:58
Policy in place where we could implement whether it is new trust or some sort of food vendor to bring that to to our part space. 00:45:04
Are you familiar with the hub in South Jordan? Uh, is that like near day right. Uh near if I think South Jordan, I'll say 00:45:10
everything is near but it it, it's worth it Google yeah just to take a look at because that's something that I think is well done 00:45:16
You have. 00:45:22
Nice open area, you have a very clear parking. You have a shared bathroom and that is a. 00:45:29
Mobile support. When I hear mobile food court, I think of that because it's still within a person's, one that may be down the 00:45:36
street from us, that they have two or three at one time. And it is Wild West. You said we wanna limit the former. Yeah. OK. So I, 00:45:43
I definitely think we should look into it more food court stuff or mobile food courts being in public space. So we should, I mean, 00:45:50
it should be allowed in private spaces. 00:45:58
Yeah, well, we, we for sure should hopefully have that policy and I'm not saying the policy would say we're going to allow it uh 00:46:06
in in public spaces, but we are re examining it and, and seeing what we can do. Umm. 00:46:11
And it's it's kind of a pleasant place to go and get your fuel back, but they're they're really working hard at it. But like, it's 00:46:48
not even an easy access or more planal ****** to enjoy it. So if there's a way to make this something that is, umm, able to 00:46:56
include in public makes more sense to me than private because it is not going to get that use the rest of the year easily. And So 00:47:03
what happens with that land? Yeah, yeah. And if if I mean, I don't think we can say like it can only be in the public space. 00:47:11
Until we have like a certain plan of we have spaces where you can actually come and be yeah yeah. But of course we're still right 00:47:19
now for sure OK yeah we'll we'll look into that one again. I'll just add 2 caches and rock telework has been working with Parks 00:47:27
and rec in terms of like looking at the infrastructure feasibility provide for. 00:47:35
Specifically for growth parts like ability to be able to provide for like a like an elevated next house for the kids that can help 00:47:45
area where there's like so they're they're not there. They're not they're two trucks aren't having to run generators. 00:47:51
And they have actual connections to. 00:47:58
Water and so forth make this out a better a better accessory 1 and and to be able to run around as well on that and see what you 00:48:03
know, obviously cost cost connected to that. So you have to have money partners been taking pretty seriously. I think they even 00:48:09
did like a little internal study. Cool, thank you Great stuff. All right here for Mike, you know, a little spicy here. We have a 00:48:15
short term rental. 00:48:21
Umm, we, you know, it is just a, a very hot topic. People hate them and they love them right? When you're on vacation up in 00:48:28
southern and be able to go to our house where you have your own space and take a small hotel room, umm. 00:48:33
That being said, we, we are, you know, examining what we can do in the city to allow them to a certain extent. Umm, so, uh, short 00:48:40
term rentals, anything is less than 30 days. Umm, so this change would allow for rentals less than that. It requires a license to 00:48:46
be held by the owner, umm, and establishes enforcement language that is pretty strict. Umm, it would require no duplex rental 00:48:52
route system beyond, you know, a house with an Adu. They can do an incremental on both. Umm, they couldn't even do a short for 00:48:58
rental and an Adu. 00:49:04
They could, you know, 11 rental. 00:49:10
Yes uh, and then it, it has a calling here about records management. Umm, before there's a few more slides on this that kind of 00:49:15
breaks down how we accomplish this. Umm, we require that there's two different license types. So the first one is for single 00:49:21
family homes. Umm, it would be, uh, we'd require 5 parking stalls. We'd have a maximum of four unrelated people or families. Uh, 00:49:28
yeah. Once again, we cannot have an EU and a. 00:49:34
Short term rental. 00:49:42
And then we would issue 1 license for 50 homes in the neighborhood with a minimum of two. So the neighborhood has 80 houses. We 00:49:43
allow 2 short commercials and it would be just a first temperature basis. And your license is active as long as you keep your, uh, 00:49:49
you know, your license with the city active. Once that last, then you know, we can move on to the next person that supplies. How 00:49:54
much would it cost to get a license? Uh, we don't have that in here yet. That would be something we, we'd need to expand with 00:50:00
other cities. 00:50:06
If you really didn't want a short term rental in your neighborhood, you could just apply. 00:50:12
Well, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, there, there's always a, a strategy in there. But what we would most likely do is look at what 00:50:19
the administration costs would be processing the permit. We can't. And then the electronics, we can't like make a profit. And so 00:50:26
basically we have to analyze, umm, you know, what does it take for us to do? Most likely there would be an inspection of some, 00:50:32
some sort of fire inspection. It's your window. Well, it's not covered. 00:50:38
Fires like smoke detectors and so there's things like that. So you gotta look at that and say kind of what the cost of that would 00:50:45
be. And then we base the the GF of that. Yeah. So that, that brings up a good point that I have an Adu in my face and the permit 00:50:54
was about 50 bucks a year. So I was also part of this conversation when we first talked about this. So in the other building. 00:51:03
So a long time, yeah. I, I actually, I, I did just think so technically somebody could do that or they could apply for one. 00:51:13
So the heck of it yeah, I mean you technically still could, but it it you know, there's there's work involved in that yeah. So, 00:51:50
uh, this that in that specific thing wasn't talked about in the meeting, but just short term rentals and should they be allowed in 00:51:58
the meeting? And a lot of yeah, it's like a power feeling like, well, umm, since the last. So we have that kind of initial 00:52:05
conversations. And then there was the umm, the X dev multi family, umm, building, right. We actually required them to to. 00:52:13
We wanted to provide umm, you know, it's like, yeah. And we actually from external development standpoint, we uh, we adopted. So 00:52:20
the county has a 1% transient room tax, but so does the city. And so if you have a short term ******* then we get, you know, one, 00:52:28
1% of that umm would, would come to the city. So there definitely is so, so I guess there's like a fee, but like that's where the 00:52:35
city would see some economic benefit for from these umm, but there's, there's sort of, uh, a 1/3 type 2 that's not in here, but. 00:52:43
Umm, like Saint George, because they're very strictly short term rentals and they don't allow I I, I don't think that most single 00:52:51
family here because don't brown, but they do have developments that that are like, you know, you can own a unit. Everyone can do a 00:52:58
short term rental. You could do like a like a basic complex. Yeah, OK. It is really economical. Again, that brings a lot of 00:53:06
commerce in. And then when you're thinking about things like, you know, having the Olympics here in several years like this. 00:53:13
People from Arizona aren't buying up these short term rentals and vineyards and crafting off of us. It is you know what local 00:54:21
developer something like that. Well, that leads me to question currently does not this proposition say that it needs to be are 00:54:28
occupied in order to do short term rental? No, no, wouldn't so that that would be like the type 1 where you haven't seen a family 00:54:34
home where you might have a basement apartment that you do want to do a short term rental. 00:54:41
We, we actually prefer keeping that as housing stock and that's why we allow the accessory dwelling units because it does offer a 00:54:49
lower income housing. 00:54:53
Umm, option for the city where, you know, all, all of our Adus were then turned into short term rentals. It would actually be a 00:54:58
pretty bad thing in terms of having affordability. Umm, we, we've been here. The, the, the literature that was one, one thing we 00:55:04
found is that, that's one of the negatives to having just like full fledge, uh, short term rentals wherever you want is that they 00:55:10
just cut into the rent rental stock and it can, it can hurt kind of. 00:55:17
So speaking to that, uh, what if we put in the type 1, then it has to be on our occupied but still 1 license issue per fifty 00:55:23
homes. 00:55:28
So I think it's for people who like pretty much have an Adu that they want to turn into us. Yeah, yeah, or, or even like limited. 00:55:35
So it's it's not like a. 00:55:40
Correct. Or there's even homes, uh, that are short term rentals where they rent out a room in the house and they come and stay in 00:55:45
the house with the person. Uh, I would be more in favor of something like that only because so I've, I've been on both sides of 00:55:52
the short term rental where I'm part of a group that you do not want in your short term rental. And I've also been with my family. 00:55:59
That's great. But the group, yeah, you do not want that. 00:56:06
And and that's where we do have, like I said, the the maximum 4 unrelated people or that that consider unrelated people that are 00:56:13
staying the night, right? 00:56:17
Good morning everybody. We do have a pretty strict, uh, document recommendation process where we do require them to at any time so 00:56:21
they can request all the documents of who's been. So I don't know about who since, but like number of people saying your location 00:56:28
and all that data has to be given to the city. Umm, we haven't got it. Sorry, I was just going to. I think that gets really messy. 00:56:35
Yeah, if you start asking for the definition of related or family. 00:56:42
That can get no documents you can purchase. They are not and we have to get into like are people allowed over to visit if there's 00:56:50
four people staying there, how many people are allowed in there and then. 00:56:56
Parking gets it's not unenforceable. Yeah, it's unenforceable. That is actually what I wanted to ask because there's all this 00:57:02
enforcement language, but who's enforcing it? It's almost scrutiny. So is that something that can be really regularly monitored 00:57:09
otherwise, You know, it's almost. So essentially I, I can see enforcement working in, in a few ways. So like if if I had an Airbnb 00:57:16
in my house, we realized by the city and then I see somebody pop up with one on. 00:57:22
Illegal. I can report that to the city and once we have a report of a short term rental, we are able to, to do a bit of, of work 00:57:29
of enforcement to get them to shut it down. Umm, but until we have that report, we can't really do anything. You know, we're not 00:57:34
sitting there on our computers at work strolling Airbnb and doing that. We, we wait until we have something seems like I have you 00:57:39
left it it, it definitely does. Umm. 00:57:44
Right, right. 00:58:19
You know, for for a movie or something like that, or they're doing like YouTube videos. 00:58:50
And and make people who do have supplementals make sure that the people coming and renting the branch and the family, not branch 00:59:27
and his friends. 00:59:31
Occurs, I would say upper section, any code enforcement or any police activity kind of all-encompassing because maybe they got the 01:00:06
license and they're abiding by this, but they're breaking the noise ordinance every time because they keep renting out on problem. 01:00:13
Like, you know, maybe I I'd like to see that and click it as well. I love the three strikes you're out. I think that's fantastic. 01:00:21
Something to verify in the three structure out. Umm, I believe in Utah, umm. 01:00:28
The the standard may be within a 12 month period. So that's something we might wanna check with Jamie is do do the first because 01:00:36
he's done on the phone. He's kinda yeah, it does stay in here for the for the third violation within 12 months so that you get 2 01:00:42
and then you're past the 12 months and you get another one. So I got, I wonder if it could just be 3 strikes or if we could help 01:00:48
out a little bit. We might wanna talk to you in a little bit more see if there's something that provides a better time frame than 01:00:54
12 months. Umm yeah, so let's. 01:01:00
We not that we want to umm. 01:01:34
You know, encourage everyone to constantly looking for it. But is that the right response? Then if somebody said that to me, I 01:01:36
could please put in a report. And as many times you see it, just report, OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is Morgan's number. And the 01:01:42
more proof the better, right? We, we can try to use like if somebody sends in a report, umm, for an Airbnb website, you can't 01:01:48
actually use the listing itself as a, as a violation, right? That's the freedom of speech to say, I have a house that you can 01:01:54
rent, but we can. 01:02:00
Things like other students have discussed using the what's called the comic section or the the feedback that people leave saying I 01:02:06
had a great time staying at this house with my three friends or whatever. We can do that. 01:02:11
'S a weird, it's a weird. Umm, we can for if somebody has a basement apartment or an accessory long unit, they're using it for 01:02:19
rental, we can use the listing as evidence according to state law. Umm, but we've done before when I, I mean, so much has changed 01:02:25
since I was an enforcement on this, but it's about 10 years ago. 01:02:31
Umm, and there's illegal to offer not just to actually do it, but to offer it. And so we often have, we'd often have people 01:02:38
applying and when it was offered, yeah, yeah. That that is things we can't do. There are cities that that will do that where they 01:02:44
will just log into their account and try to, or they can message the owner be I can't interested in staying the night and they the 01:02:50
owner message is back saying great, we have these available, whatever. At that point you can then say, why don't you break the 01:02:56
code so. 01:03:02
Go back to Gmail. We'll just collect the umm, yeah. I think the more we can encourage people to do the normal violence, what we 01:03:08
get you probably. 01:03:12
Yes, exactly. That's exactly. 01:03:17
Right. 01:03:21
That's in the place the better. So that's great. So my just quick thoughts with the type 1 license, umm, love that needs to be 01:03:54
held by a property owner. So you're not subletting, umm, parking spaces. That's fine. I would recommend we scratch any kind of 01:04:01
maximum of number of guests or the type of guests, whether it's guest or family, stay out of it. So if there's twelve of them, but 01:04:08
they're respectful and they're quiet and there's not a single thing, how about it? I don't care and same thing. We we can. 01:04:16
Met with parking right if they don't have the parking they have for the people show up in 30 cars, then we, we can say requires 5 01:04:24
parking spaces and make sure it's part of the license that they share with their guests in the long street parking that doesn't 01:04:29
count yeah I, I think that's really why I, I mean just recently we had a battery unit and my sister dented umm, a, a condo in 01:04:35
Provo and a lot of us just showed up and hung out when we didn't stay there and so yeah, you kinda get into where you're like 01:04:41
splitting hairs with the guest yeah. 01:04:47
I will be here past the night. So I think I think the reason to have the maximum number of guests isn't so much to enforce that as 01:04:54
much as it is for the people that are. 01:04:58
Good owners of properties, they'll be like, this is the most that I can do. Like I'm gonna try to up, I'm gonna try to do that 01:05:04
instead of rent this out and be like, I'm lifting it with you can have 16 people here. Like I think it's just to keep the like 01:05:11
honest and good guys like in check. Like this is what I can do if I'm trying to buy this as an investment. We, we could do it like 01:05:18
based off of like bedroom or something like that where they can have two people per bedroom in the house. 01:05:26
Or something. So I have a little bit of flexibility if you have any better homes but have 16 we could do that, you know, 01:05:33
inspection of color highs that was over that that short term rental program. 01:05:37
In reality, like the police aren't going to like question every single person and go are you staying the night or you just said, 01:06:11
yeah, I mean, if I want to see those good just to have. But we have other codes that are pro like really impossible. But it is 01:06:16
good to have it because you can always point someone to it. Go well, that is the code. 01:06:21
Market for Adus that, that that's one that pretty much everyone violates, but it's, it's really hard to, uh, enforce because you 01:06:28
can tandem park a umm, umm, the, the Adu people Cantana park. You can't Tana park Adu as an owner. It's more informational, but 01:06:35
it's, it's like so hard to have it as much informational. OK, we can't really enforce that, but the people that are doing things 01:06:43
right and like sticking to code, which there are people that are doing that like to get some information. 01:06:50
Yeah, umm, my other thought where homes cannot have an Adu license and a, umm, short term rental license, that's just to make sure 01:06:58
that we're not reducing our housing stock. Those numbers that we're reporting as part of our housing element, we want to make sure 01:07:04
we're not losing those. It makes perfect sense. And we, we get in trouble with anything from the state where we start reducing, 01:07:10
umm, global housing stock. Yeah, we, we have how many Adus we have in the city? And if that number goes down, they're not going to 01:07:16
be too active. 01:07:22
So if I have if I have a basement apartment and I work. 01:07:28
To make that an ADUI have zero chance of ever making that, uh, short term rental unless I want to request that my Adu license 11 01:07:32
or the other great. And what's nice about how, uh, cash has this written up. It really does, umm, allow the IT, it does make it 01:07:39
very sparse, but that's illegal. And so even if someone doesn't need you, it's not taking a ton of inventory away. Whereas in 01:07:47
here, uh, for ads, you can pretty much, umm, anywhere in the city as long as you meet the minimum requirements. 01:07:54
Account so so I, I think this is a pretty good compromise OK and then my last one for type 1 licenses. Umm each community can have 01:08:02
a minimum of 2 short term rental licenses plus one so for every 50 home umm. 01:08:10
What's the definition of community? For the most part, most a lot of the cities built into these black pods of homes. 01:08:18
An actual map OK so we do the same thing yeah I, I think that works umm I also we could have the map attached to the ordnance some 01:08:31
kind of exhibit there that and instead of we could say 53 or whatever. OK almost now as long as we have that spelled out district 01:08:37
or community or like the garden neighborhood yeah that's, that's a basically how we added them, but there are a few communities 01:08:44
where there's only 12 homes so then are you getting. 01:08:51
You know, to single or short term rentals in that one small community. And so we, you know, there might be so many communities 01:08:58
that we we bundle together where you have, you know, 50 homes that are together. 01:09:04
For the most part, we have very defined and vineyards. So it actually makes this this pretty easy. You have some very defined 01:09:11
boundaries, but what we might have is the line where you have part sides and then you have garden. They're backing up next to each 01:09:17
other, They're separate. 01:09:22
Neighborhood but they're next door to each other and you have to have a cluster of 10 all right next to each other and so is there 01:09:28
an appetite for not just having this restriction but also seeing No2 licenses shall be within 100 feet of each other or whatever 01:09:36
number we choose we we could check with Jamie on that one I'm I'm thinking. 01:09:44
That may have been something that we talked about and, and, and initially and uh, yeah, we, we, we just have to check on it 01:09:53
because it's kind of like if your neighbor does a short term rental. 01:09:58
Flies back. Now she takes away your ability so you can't be no, no, no, yeah. 01:10:03
No, we're already putting the first come first serve restriction. Yeah, we'll we'll have my conversation. 01:10:11
And according to this definition regarding neighborhood has 126 homes. So we're looking at 4-4. Yeah, Yeah. If we decided that was 01:10:19
a community, right, we might, yeah. We also need to kind of figure that out. And then, and it could be more gonna just have 01:10:26
smaller meetings and more than the neighborhood, you know, Parkside plus Garden equals 415 homes. They're gonna get a lot more 01:10:33
than if you split them up. 01:10:41
You know anymore if you say the water, Yeah. 01:10:49
You know all of them. Yeah, yeah, in the garden. So yeah, we'll work. We'll work out those things. OK, Thanks. Umm, then Type 2 01:10:54
license. I'm agreeing. I would love to encourage if there's a condo development that is kind of resort based, umm, those are 01:11:02
awesome developments where it's controlled, it's managed. Umm, those would be great. 01:11:09
Sure. Yeah, the development permit, permit, OK. 01:11:21
Two, yes, please multifamily complex that builds in the on site management and then umm, they could do that. But with the type 3 01:11:25
it most likely what we're imagining in the news development some coming in. So we wanna do a resort type development where EE, you 01:11:32
know, everyone there is allowed to have a short credentials, but then we need to have requirements like in Saint George, they 01:11:40
advertise it yes, like you drive into development and it's like short term rentals are allowed here. 01:11:47
It's like about that, yeah. And I, I think those ones are great. 01:11:55
Umm my only comment on the type 2 was similar is the one that's the type 1 of questioning how your the maximum number of guests 01:11:59
and a family, all that stuff like comments. Do we want to on type one just to kind of go back to umm, Bryce's comment about the 01:12:06
room do is that something umm we would fit into type 1? I guess how how we have type 1 is that limited to a unit or umm or could 01:12:13
that be a room within a house? If someone has a house without, maybe you wanna rent out a room. 01:12:19
I whatever I I wanna hear what everyone else says for me. I feel like that's impossible. 01:12:30
I think if you did limit it, I like bedrooms. Like I'm, I'm proposing my house with one bedroom for an Adu. We'd say up to two 01:12:35
people or whatever. Umm, alright. My only comment on that is it's impossible to enforce, but that's my end up Yeah, umm. 01:12:44
Yeah. Uh, I would just say yeah, maybe number of guests per ring, 2 guests per room or something. Yeah. But again, that's, yeah, 01:12:55
it is hard to then you just have something in there though that you can, yeah, go back. But like if they're stackable though, 01:13:02
right? Because if they're all these parameters, you can kind of stack if you were violating them. So the better it can be defined. 01:13:10
That gives you a start yeah and for the most part it's OK uh, with a short term rental, that code is like they're getting 01:13:19
complained about umm and it's usually cut the noise. They're having a big party, they're parking all over the place and so. 01:13:25
There's a lot of like ancillary things that we can go at from a code enforcement and then we go, oh, and you're a social medical. 01:13:32
Yeah, Yeah, so you're right. Yeah, you stack them. You stack them one thing, but multiple things would be clear that they were 01:13:37
breaking the parameters and what it was intended to be. Yeah. 01:13:43
Umm, what? One, we don't want these to be family reunions, pretty much because that's not what they were built and intended to be. 01:13:50
That's what the Yeah, my family and my brother's family wanted to visit vineyards during the Olympics, and there's only A5 bedroom 01:13:55
home. 01:14:00
We would have to go to another community. I just want to make sure. 01:14:07
And that's where I do like it is hard to enforce, but, but it's pretty obvious that the family 50 shows up for family reunion that 01:14:12
they are breaking that code and we would be able to work, you know, with the license folder that they can't do stuff like that. 01:14:19
And same thing we could use that listing, right? If somebody has a home with, with eight bedrooms, they we could look at the 01:14:25
listing and say, hey, you have the home with eight bedrooms. You can have up to 16 guests, but you're advertising 20 plus. 01:14:32
There we go. Yeah, that's more than I was thinking too, because you might need to be in two houses because it's home, but you can 01:14:39
actually get 2 houses. 01:14:41
Right. And they wouldn't be fitted, one of the homes, one of the bedrooms. 01:14:45
It wouldn't be next to each other probably either because of the way this set up in here. Unless you had a separate community, you 01:14:51
wouldn't be staying near each other. Absolutely. Absolutely. But yeah, it's kind of a part of me was saying, oh, I could have made 01:14:56
one of the rooms a bunk room and there's four beds in it. But this restriction. But then that means I'm in the business of short 01:15:02
term rentals. That's what I'm saying is no, this isn't for professional short term renters, right? 01:15:08
With yeah because we don't want because it needs to be owner occupied yeah we don't wanna have like possible correct yeah yeah 01:15:14
alright. Umm a rotating door yeah yeah umm well looking at the looking at the type 2 and talking about the type 3 they require on 01:15:21
site management. I still think with type 1 like having it owner occupied like we we could say so some cities will say things like 01:15:29
the and. 01:15:36
The, the owner has to live within 25 miles or something like that. Umm, which which is hard for us to enforce, but that is, you 01:15:44
know, and live like in vineyards. So because right now we don't allow they're there, but this, this would be like opening up. 01:15:51
What's the, and that way we're not taking, I mean, we're not taking stock off of like the market for somebody buying it as an 01:15:59
investment property for short term rentals. And we're making it possible for people that. 01:16:06
Having a hard time buying their first home to make it possible for them to. That's my concern. When I was in Napa, CA, those house 01:16:14
prices were going up so much partially because me and my little family were competing with the Silicon Valley billionaires buying 01:16:22
their 4th vacation and so there's no way I could compete with that. I'd like to continue to encourage Vineyard to have as many. 01:16:30
Resident occupants as possible, because those are the ones participating in the schools, on the library board, on the Planning 01:16:39
Commission, coming to meetings that are overflowing like this one. I wanna make sure we're so still doing that and if we create 01:16:44
too many opportunities. 01:16:49
For rental investment that only where I think this helps too is that instead of it being you're taking away housing stock and 01:16:54
you're driving the cost of real estate up. What you're what you're doing is you're creating a tool where someone owns a house and 01:17:00
then they're able to use a short term answer to offset the mortgage to make it more affordable that I. 01:17:07
Blackandveteran.com to be a missionary, what am I gonna do with my home for two years? Stuff like that, You know stuff like that 01:17:15
is OK. It's I just wanna make sure all those would be long term rentals. Never mind. I see the benefit of doing that occupied 01:17:23
requirement for instruction rentals, but what would the benefit of the owner living within 25 miles be? 01:17:31
Umm, and it it, it works OK, but the idea is that they're supposed to respond really quickly. 01:18:11
Yeah, noise complaint. Hmm. So that, that, that I I think that's one somebody's gonna do it. Could we require it needs to be 01:18:17
professionally managed. Is that the concern? 01:18:21
Uh, no, no, not an outfit. If you're, if you're the owner for type 1, I don't know. 01:18:28
If that's necessary, if it's owner occupied and yeah. And if the owner occupied as far as management, I mean, if it's under 01:18:32
occupied, then they kind of have the responsibility to their neighbors because they know their neighbors, they live next to them. 01:18:38
And then, uh, we can just have requirements where it would need to their yard and stuff would need to be managed to a level that's 01:18:44
higher than even just a single family home. And I put that on the license application thing, understand by getting this license, 01:18:50
this is kind of another. 01:18:56
Registration form where you're on a list and you're gonna be held to a higher standard. Yeah, OK, that's reasonable. Umm, one 01:19:03
thing I, I did note on here, umm, on site property owners might be a little vague. Somebody who lives in, in water, that might be 01:19:08
like, well, I have, you know, my HOA management company at the clubhouse or whatever. So I think we'd want to have very specific 01:19:14
language on what on site management means that like it's on the property site, right? Umm, but that type 2 it is somewhere, you 01:19:20
know, with this building. 01:19:26
That proposed they're proposing that they will have like a leasing office there for the apartment units of lack as this management 01:19:33
company for the the the short term rentals. Yeah. And another comment on the Type 2. I think that they would have to require a 01:19:39
parking pass with the short term rental that it would have to be a physical. You have these two parking passes and that's it like 01:19:45
yeah, yeah. 01:19:52
In a more professional setting, you're a professional. No, all of them neighborhoods have some sort of parking programs. Yeah. 01:20:29
Yeah. OK. And if they don't, then it would just have to be they would have to park in a dedicated spot. OK. Because the type one. 01:20:36
Yeah. Don't go on the street. You have 5 spaces be in the garage or on the driveway. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. 01:20:44
OK, umm, and I, we put in the required back with back to type one. That's just came to my mind. Umm, with the five plus parking 01:20:52
stalls, we could require that. Like the garage is acceptable. We've been talking to you like, you know, I use an RV tab in the 01:20:59
driveway. Uh, but a broad drop limit. Do we want any kind of language about that? I'm looking at the garage being off limits if 01:21:06
they can still provide 5 stalls that are off the street, OK. 01:21:13
OK. 01:21:21
Perfect, that's a lot work off of with. 01:21:21
Sorry, that was just my thought. I don't know if this or not. And on some of these, I think this is a drawing that we we, we can 01:21:25
even bring back and just do an individual session on. 01:21:30
Yeah, short term. So especially once, once it gets out, umm, as far as people who own short term vessels, we have attacking 01:21:35
support. I think this is what you're talking about, Bryce. That big meeting you had where the, where umm, they got word of it and 01:21:40
everyone who owned a short term vessel, you know, contacting each other. And also one meeting we didn't actually do not accept 01:21:46
like because it was the first time where everyone at the meeting was speaking in favor of source message. 01:21:51
Because I was the only one that was on the Commission that had gone to a short term rental. And they're like they said they're 01:21:59
still and they're like, and he knows he's been to a short term rental. He's in favor of this. And I was like, well, I know you're 01:22:04
there. When was his name? I saw you left in the bathroom. 01:22:09
Yeah, yeah. I would've been like 2018-2019, not before that. Yeah, it's in the old buildings. It was a while ago. 01:22:17
And in park. 01:22:25
Umm, and then we included a specific definition of weed. 01:23:00
And that is everything. So these are the definitions like I said that that check cashing in other private services is very, very 01:23:03
specific of, of what that is. A lot of it coming from the state, umm, pretty much is exempting, you know, your, your credit Union 01:23:09
Bank, but it's your, you know, check cashing kind of places that are considering that. Does the code have a definition of mobile 01:23:15
food vendor? Uh, currently, no, no, these are all new things. So I like that, such as food trucks, but where it says there are 01:23:21
multiple food vendors. 01:23:27
There's trouble mobile. I think what we could do is it sounds like, umm overall people want you. You all want some good defined 01:23:34
definitions for like the first route. So what what why don't we kind of just do an audit any like a major terms definition for 01:23:41
that? Yeah. And that could just be 15.1 or wherever the definition. Yeah, we just dropped. So I think that is all that I have. I 01:23:48
have a really important question. Does umm price get sent in to gavel when we're done? 01:23:55
I'm allowed to yeah it's done it's usually when you say 1st is my normal time here you can let nano thing standard water. Oh I 01:24:03
will bang gavel guys no, I'll have to ask this one No just. 01:24:08
Umm, I, I just wanted to know if that was, you know, it's an option. It's an option. OK. Just want to make sure. I think I think 01:24:14
Bryce would use it maybe once or twice when people are like, really? Wow. 01:24:20
Yeah, I see. Yeah, I was. This is some of my favorite watcher. 01:24:25
Right now, those are my questions. Alright, thank you Tash. Umm, thank you guys for all your comments on that. Oh, and we're one 01:24:31
of the if if you know, you're bored and reviewing our zoning code someday. Any detections that you want us to kind of focus in 01:24:36
more on? I'm I'm having the exam more like I said, this is Part 1. We probably have another section equally big of other topics, 01:24:41
but we wanna bring to your attention umm. 01:24:47
But yeah, any, any suggestions anything like that, you're like, I think we need to tighten this up or loosen this up. We're we're 01:24:53
happy to to throw that in here. Cool. 01:24:57
Did you have any comments starting on that you wanted to? I have some questions. 01:25:02
Sorry it wasn't Vineyard resident umm, I just wanted to make sure I know where the regional commercial zone is. I'm I'm prepared 01:25:17
for that. OK, wonderful. I saw some at the beginning of my presentation now and have a little link here to a map. 01:25:26
Oh, I'm not sure my screen like bringing that up. Did you want to stay early questions or oh, who am I? Like I said, I was 01:25:36
prepared. 01:25:41
So anything you see in light blue is the regional commercial. So you have a big chunk up here, umm, right along Geneva Road and 01:25:48
800 N and as well as down here off of Geneva Rd. There's some sections that are regional commercial that are for the most part 01:25:54
built out. There are a few empty lots there. OK, OK. I was just curious. OK, thank you. 01:26:01
When you were talking about medical practitioners, umm, does that include massage? No, I, I believe we have a whole other section 01:26:11
on massage there. OK. I think is there only driving anything that's like a bike requires some sort of medical license or, or like 01:26:16
medical. Yeah, I'll, I'll make sure that, that we tighten up that, that definition of medical. OK, that's a good idea. OK. What 01:26:22
somebody who did to you know, we refuse to ask your, uh, issue a license to it was not, you know, it wasn't a doctor or somebody 01:26:28
who had to have a, a. 01:26:33
Certificate that we ruled as medical practice practice and they were saying it's not really and so that's where the issue was is 01:26:40
this medical or is it not when it was injecting you know somebody with something like we still have symmetrical oh like both of us 01:26:48
or something yeah OK just like it yeah juvenile OK I don't know but umm. 01:26:56
Let's see. Oh, so you were talking about farmers markets and. 01:27:05
Possibly arts and crafts festivals. Is that going to be, umm allowed in Utah City? 01:27:11
Yeah, umm, and, and I, I think like, that's not the problem now, is being, uh, set up so that that would definitely be like a 01:27:18
public space, OK. And yeah, So what we're talking about in this was for private spaces, so public spaces like Promenade and Grove 01:27:24
Park and stuff like that. 01:27:29
They both need to go through. Yeah. OK. And then you were talking about mobile, Mobile food courts near Vineyard Beach? Mm-hmm. 01:27:37
OK. 01:27:42
Umm, I've been to mobile through court in French Polynesia and they had pay plots, they had tables and chairs, they had lighting, 01:27:47
they had large trash dumpsters and bathrooms. 01:27:54
That's the bare minimum, yeah. Yeah. And so that's that's what the the supplementary development standards for these mobile food 01:28:03
Corps. 01:28:06
Food court is, is that we do want to see restrooms, especially if you have like employees that are working on just there and they 01:28:09
don't have a restroom. That's an issue. Umm, and same thing we, we, we did remove like ductless surface, right? As as long as 01:28:15
there's an improved parking surface of some sort, but there isn't just flying everywhere, you know, and, and remember, dustless 01:28:21
wasn't for the mobile food court, the mobile food court. 01:28:27
We are yeah, that was for temporary uses. I was saying mobile needs to be more permanent in nature, but just the hub in South 01:28:34
Jordan or the electricity, electricity and and yeah yeah, we we recommend more designing areas we wanna see all OK, absolutely OK 01:28:39
and then umm. 01:28:44
That's part of the single, umm. What do you call stores? What about type 2 parking? I mean you mentioned parking permit but with 01:28:51
those townhouses and condos? 01:28:59
How are you going to manage that? Because. 01:29:08
Some some have more than another. So so no townhome or condo would technically this would work for unless there's permanent on 01:29:11
site management. So you're like if you think of like late front account centers, they couldn't apply for type 2. 01:29:18
Because more planning, more parking is adequate parking. 01:29:52
Right. We're always looking for more parking, right? That's right. You said that last city, the last what I was looking for, umm, 01:29:57
it's already going to be a parking consultant by an anti. I have one more concern about the check cashing. Mm-hmm. 01:30:06
Things that similar with like sexually oriented businesses to plan for them. 01:30:46
So we, we just gotta cover ourselves to make sure that if they do, this is what they can do. Right. Well, Speaking of sexually 01:30:52
oriented businesses, restore an iPod against bikini cuts because it did not fit a community standard. And unfortunately, I don't, 01:30:59
I don't think that check cashing and title loans and all that kind of stuff is a good fit for Vineyard. Yeah, Yeah. But once 01:31:07
again, it's one of the things that if we don't have language in there, yeah. 01:31:14
You know, we can try to restrict. You're trying to cover yourself before. If you don't have anything, then they can't, then 01:31:22
they're gonna and then they're gonna be located right next to Chubby's in the yard, right? 01:31:28
Yeah, we, we can experience or whatever we can, OK, that, that's essentially what this is doing. And this is something Kelly our, 01:31:35
I don't think you've met her, but our business licensing person, she's phenomenal. And she kind of realized this was a big gap in 01:31:41
our, our use table. If we see this coming, we need to make sure we we have set standards, OK? But like you said, just to protect 01:31:47
our, our community standards that we do have. OK. So when are we gonna get a dry cleaner? That's what we need to dry, if you have 01:31:53
any suggestions. 01:31:59
Reach out to him. Yeah. We're, we're always happy to do that. Only we could pick as a city, like which business is like, yeah, you 01:32:05
know, you know, something that the community could use. I mean, a lot of men that wear suits around here. 01:32:12
Ties and all that kind of stuff. 01:32:21
So thank you very much, uh, mobile dry cleaners. 01:32:23
Sure. 01:32:29
Umm, the state of Utah have any laws regulating whether HOA can have rules on short term rentals? 01:32:30
Good question. I will because there's some states that have prohibited Hoas from making any decision one way or the other, and I'm 01:32:39
just curious if Utah has. 01:32:43
Because what I would hate is if we eventually grant all this and someone goes through the process of getting a license and then 01:32:50
Water's Edge or whatever and says, hey, it's illegal here, but the city says I can't Now you're in the battle with the Italy. And 01:32:57
so maybe an element that says, First off, do they need to get approval from day 2A? Get that before you. Yeah. Or if HOA can't do 01:33:04
anything, then it's. Yeah, we, we actually do have that, like with some of our building permits. When, when you build. 01:33:12
And, and waters that you actually do have to provide or, or an accessory dwelling or whatever to your house. You do have to 01:33:20
provide it an architectural letter from the HOA that says we improve over this. So we could, you know, do something like that if 01:33:25
needed. Umm, and we, we could sit down with some of the larger ways, take larger action and ask them what if, if anything, are you 01:33:30
guys doing to control personal? I don't think they're doing anything right now, but that makes good, right? Well, that's what I 01:33:36
would check with as well as. 01:33:41
The state, if the state has, yeah, I'll, I'll look into that. 01:33:46
All right. 01:33:51
Umm, staff permission committee report, we're doing a property rights training. No, no, yeah, I guess that kind of, uh, we, we 01:33:53
just want to bring that up all to your attention. Umm, I guess Price, you won't care so much on this because in January you'll no 01:33:59
longer be with us. Umm, but we will be doing a combined Planning Commission, City Council meeting, the, I believe on the eighth. 01:34:05
We're still waiting on the date to be confirmed. Umm, but we reached out to the state ombudsman, Property I ombudsman to come do a 01:34:11
training. He's done this. 01:34:17
So. 01:34:52
Cool, thanks for that. Everything that you yeah. So, umm, I just had to get to date from Pam Umm And when the City Council is, 01:34:52
which we have no approved the schedule for any of that yet. So I didn't wanna put a date out, but just to put it on your calendar 01:35:00
that there will be a dream most likely. And pretty much we will have the calendar. I don't know how you kind of asked me about the 01:35:07
calendar. Umm, we will have that probably for approval next Planning Commission meeting for the next for the following year. 01:35:14
Umm, it's been kind of long days, but and we still have, we still do have funding. So and if you, if the commissioners fine 01:37:22
training that you find umm as important and you you wanna wanna go, but let us know. We'll we're happy to to cover it. Cool. 01:37:28
Umm, one last thing that we are going to get all the planning commissioners emails and so I just need a defined list of who I 01:37:35
needed to get enrolled in an e-mail. So if you want to just reach out to me or I think this was kind of hard for us with you only 01:37:43
having two months left or do you want to have a Vineyard e-mail address? I'll stick with this vineyard, alright? 01:37:51
So everybody else, we are just for grandma was whenever you get e-mail, umm, it's technically people can request that, but rather 01:38:00
than it go to your personal e-mail or if you create your own for this, this position, umm, this way we'll just always have access 01:38:05
to those emails. Umm, it just makes it a lot easier on our end. So that's something we'll we'll probably be doing in the next few 01:38:11
weeks. We'll be working on getting you set up with that. 01:38:17
So make sure you check that e-mail address as well. 01:38:24
Perfect. Anything else from staff? 01:38:28
And. 01:38:32
You only have two rights left. Some point in this thing, it's got to bang the this is and it really is your time. That'll be 01:38:40
another opportunity. 01:38:47
I haven't been here this whole year and I disappeared this whole year. 01:38:57
Yeah. 01:39:03
The only, umm, I'm from the work engineering, I'm here. Umm, so Patrick, uh, Patrick is gone, uh, for, for the week, uh, he's done 01:39:06
a well deserved, uh, vacation with, uh, yeah. Well, the verification. So, uh, I'm grateful for going in for, uh, gratefully 01:39:12
selling it. So I'm sure you, uh, want to push that out to, uh, how much I appreciate, uh, all the work I've done. It says once 01:39:18
he's, uh, especially when he's not here. Umm, I appreciate he appreciated more, Uh, so, uh, other things, uh, contestation related 01:39:24
items, we're certainly working. 01:39:29
Transportation master plan we, we've talked about the, uh, roadway cross sections that better fit, uh, the needs of Vineyard city 01:39:36
and so forth, but also trying to align things with, uh, how other cities, umm, kinda like make sure there's a time with what other 01:39:44
cities does do as well with the grand with a grand salt on that. Uh, we're also working, uh, working our way through, uh, revising 01:39:51
and updating our standards and specifications for, uh, infrastructure as well. Umm, we're bringing. 01:39:59
Or as a consultant, uh, it's a phenomenal, uh, almost task force to the engineer. Uh, he's not a consultant, so he's gonna be, uh, 01:40:06
who a also led the way for, uh, the Utah American Public Works Association revamping uh, standards and, uh, with a, with a whole 01:40:14
hard concentration to aligning our specifications and standards, uh, in a more regional. 01:40:23
Base, umm, mindset, uh, obviously to make sure that we address within your city needs as well, but to ensure that when, uh, we 01:40:32
kinda like Legos, we connect, we connect we, our, our Lego pieces connect well with other Lego pieces. So once, uh, and when 01:40:38
residents then businesses and so forth go from 38 to Vineyard City that, you know that we have some consistency to make sure that 01:40:45
things are yeah easily being built because we often sometimes find issues with. 01:40:51
Uh, infrastructure and such, because, you know, people are just used to doing it a different way and it's kinda like hungry, we 01:40:58
teach them stuff. Uh, we're really looking towards improving our, improving those types of business practices to make sure to make 01:41:03
things better for people, uh, like. 01:41:08
Growth, which, uh, if the weather goes along the way, NS, umm, uh, if you drive on that, uh, whether it's on your, in your car or 01:41:13
on a bike and so forth, you'll find something that's missing. Uh, that thing missing is the natural speed pumps that were created 01:41:20
many, many years ago. Our street stand, umm, spent some last three, three days, uh, grinding those things out, umm, and hoping 01:41:27
that they're not like a worse thing comes back. 01:41:34
So now, you know, uh, obviously I lost a lot of people, a lot of people use the trails and so forth, but we, we understand that, 01:41:42
you know, uh, you know, providing a better, uh, better environment for everyone. 01:41:48
Is also a key talking about their environment. It was now it was stated in the last SDA council meeting, but it's kind of 01:41:55
reiterates that there's a phenomenal effort umm, of uh, the people's other works about uh, bringing umm, the Venner city, the one 01:42:02
veneer city quite known rail crossing over at 1600 N uh, by the public works building and Linden Marina up to the FRA standards, 01:42:10
uh, to ensure that tabs in your city does its. 01:42:17
Ensure that requires some gets we established, uh, throughout the, uh, Salt Lake City, UT Valley, uh, corridor on that and, you 01:42:25
know, uh, waiting to see about the other cities as well, But that, and that was also at no, uh, without the great help. 01:42:32
Definitely, uh, uh, ETA Utah transit for you. 01:42:40
That's when we were able to go out. We were doing it in accordance to umm, the umm. 01:42:49
Federal, state accountants and instrument, we were able to get to work. So I definitely wanted to take through those and those 01:42:56
types of relationships, the relationships that we build on working with them on trails and so forth and such has really been able 01:43:05
to provide just positive impacts to being able to get the job done in other areas. So let's go on here. So great, thanks. Alright. 01:43:13
That's everything. 01:43:23
Is there anything else? No. 01:43:26
OK, thanks. Yes, that's everything then, uh, meetings are. Thanks everybody. 01:43:33
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