Start Position
Chair Fullmer started the meeting at07  Presentations/Recognitions/Awards/Proclamations  Consent Items  1. Approval of Mayh,24 RDA Meeting Minutes
Motion:BOARDMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE THE CONSENT ITEM AS APPROVED. BOARDMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR FULLMER, BOARDMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, SIFUENTES, AND RASMUSSEN VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  Business Items1.Public Hearing - FY Tentative Budget The RDA Board will hear public comment concerning the adopted Fiscal Year24-2025 Tentative Budget. The RDA Board may review any items that were the proper subject of consideration in the Public Hearing. Approval of the final budget is tentatively scheduled for June,24.
Motion: BOARDMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO OPEN A PUBLIC HEARING AT09 PM. BOARDMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR FULLMER, BOARDMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   Public Hearing began at09
RDA Director Josh Daniels reviewed the budget and offered to answer questions.
Boardmember Sifuentes asked about capital projects and Mr. Daniels gave a list of the projects.
Resident Cole Kelly, living in the Lake Front development, asked about the fiscal year and what months it ran through. He wanted to know, out of the listed capital projects, which ones were final and non-negotiable. Specifically, how many the city was contractually obligated to complete and how many were still in negotiations. A discussion ensued regarding contracts.
Resident Daria Evans, living in The Villas subdivision, wanted clarification on the details of the0 N. Pedestrian Reimbursement and the0 N. Main St. Traffic Signal Finish. Mr. Daniels offered clarification on those projects.
Resident Karen Cornelius, living in The Villas, wanted clarification on money allocated for City Hall Design as well as a breakdown of the Economic Development Strategic Plan to better understand the cost associated with those projects.
Chair Fullmer asked Mr. Daniels for a breakdown of the projects to clarify which were carry over and which were new. A discussion ensued over the list of projects.
Mr. Kelly expressed concerns about the formation of the budget and his hope that elected officials would be as involved in the process as possible.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesly offered clarification on the process of the tentative budget. There was a discussion, initiated by Boardmember Holdaway, regarding the delegation of tasks to staff and the amount of input he felt current boardmembers had when delegating those tasks.
Resident Carson Walker, had questions about the RDA Property Tax Item under Revenue. There was a discussion with Mr. Daniels about property taxes and the general funding of the RDA.
Boardmember Holdaway initiated a discussion with the board and Mr. Daniels on the function and role of the RDA as well as the benefits of current projects. There was further discussion regarding funding and how that money was collected. Boardmember Holdaway was concerned that money going to the RDA was coming from funds that could be used for schools.
Chair Fullmer directed the discussion towards addressing Boardmember Holdaway’s concerns about education spending. Boardmember Sifuentes asked for clarification on what changes Boardmember Holdaway wanted to propose.
Resident David Lauret, living on Holdaway Road, had questions about the use of funds for public buildings and if that was within the scope of the RDA. He also expressed concerns about the Geneva Steel site and the ongoing cleanup work being done there. There was a discussion about the progress of the cleanup and who was responsible for doing it.
Boardmember Holdawayshared concerns that he had about project approvals. There was a discussion with Mr. Daniels about RDA funding and the difference between that and bonds.
Ms. Cornelius shared her concerns about the use of bonds. She also expressed her appreciation for Jake for sharing the history of RDA. She wanted to know who was representing the citizens in the strategic planning committee. Chair Fullmer gave clarification on how those members were selected/appointed and expressed interest in furthering public education on the RDA and how it worked. Boardmember Cameron also asked for clarification on who was appointed to the committee.
Mr. Walker had questions on the impact a split in the Alpine School District would have on funding for the RDA. There was a discussion with Mr. Daniels about how that change would be addressed.
Mr. Lauret had further questions and there was further discussion regarding the cleanup of the Geneva Site and the obligations of US Steel.
There was a discussion about continuing the public hearing.
Motion:BOARDMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO JUNETH24. BOARDMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR FULLMER, BOARDMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Boardmember Holdaway initiated a discussion regarding the admin item listed on the budget and a granular breakdown of expenses. Mr. Daniels and others offered clarification on the difference between a broader budget line item and expenses. It was decided that there would be further discussion in later meetings, including clarification on the differences between a budget and a transaction log.
Mr. Walker asked for clarification on the purchase policies of the RDA and if they were the same as those followed by the city. There was further discussion about those policies including the bidding process.  Adjournment Chair Fullmer Adjourned at30                 MINUTES APPROVED ON:  June,24   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:                        TONY LARA, DEPUTY CITY RECORDER
Okay. 00:00:02
Yeah. 00:00:05
Yes. 00:00:07
All right, we're going to do that again. It's Wednesday. 00:00:10
So wait just a second. 00:00:15
Hold just a minute. 00:00:19
I don't want to hear you. 00:00:24
All right, today is Wednesday, May 22nd. We're going to go ahead and start our Redevelopment Agency board meeting. The time is 607 00:00:28
and Council member Holdaway will start out our meeting by giving us a prayer and meeting us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:36
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we've our heads before these as a city leadership, grateful for the opportunity we 00:00:50
have to serve the great residents and citizens of Vineyard. 00:00:56
We ask for sincerity of heart and that we might be clear and that we might search out the desires of the citizens and that we 00:01:02
might be humble seekers of truth. We're grateful for the Constitution. We're grateful to live in this land. 00:01:09
We're grateful for the freedoms that we have and these things we pray for humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:17
All rise. 00:01:24
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:01:28
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:35
All right, we have something on the consent agenda. I just need a motion, unless you would like to discuss. 00:01:46
I move to approve the consent items as presented second, first by Marty, second by Amber. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye, all 00:01:55
right, carried. This brings us right into our business items, which is our tentative budget, our public hearing for our FY25 00:02:03
tentative budget and our RDA Director, Josh Daniels will be presenting this to us tonight. Before we get started, I'll go ahead 00:02:11
and ask the Board members to open a public hearing. So move. 00:02:19
Thank you, Marty. 00:02:27
All right, second, second by Amber. All in favor, Aye. All right. We are now in a public hearing. 00:02:29
Yeah, I mean, there's not, there's nothing formal to hearing. So you guys have the exhibits and then it's the same budget document 00:03:01
from last meeting. 00:03:10
I don't know if you if you have it in front of you, if you want my phone screen or what would be. Yeah, please put it on the 00:03:21
screen so our residents can see it. Thank you so much. 00:03:25
I. 00:03:30
So fun 25 in our city budget is the RDA fund, so you can see the revenues there. 00:03:37
These are of course estimated because we don't have property values. And so, you know, all property tax revenues are estimated or 00:03:48
forecast basically as part of your budgeting process, the admin that's a formulaic 5% of whatever the annual property tax 00:03:56
increment would be. 00:04:04
And of course, we've got some interest income. 00:04:12
We're not anticipating any bonding, so there won't be any bond proceeds, but we will anticipate potential grant receipts. 00:04:17
So pretty simple and then contracted TIF payments capital projects. 00:04:25
And of course, principal interest on debt service. 00:04:33
Pretty pretty straightforward. 00:04:39
Did we have any? Do you have the document that shows our capital? 00:04:44
Project syntax. 00:04:48
Yeah, let me let me get our capital project list here. 00:04:50
No. 00:04:57
Yeah, Kristen, you've got the. You have your slide. 00:05:12
I'll let you share that one. 00:05:16
I. 00:05:22
So there's your list of capital projects that could be covered by the RDA next year. 00:05:53
And we'll just give that one another minute. 00:06:07
I'm OK for that excite if I run out of. 00:06:23
And does anybody in the audience need this a little bit longer? 00:06:29
OK. 00:06:36
Then we can go to the next slide. 00:06:37
All right. 00:07:01
Are there any questions from the public? 00:07:03
Come on up. 00:07:06
State your name, where you're from, and then what questions you have. 00:07:08
Cole Kelly and I am in the lakefront area. 00:07:14
I'm curious your fiscal year 2024-2025 is that what's what month is that from is that it's obviously not a January 1, December 31. 00:07:19
What's what's this all, all cities in Utah are July 1 to June 30th. So it's the month of July through the month of June of the 00:07:29
following year. And so your your final budget approval it says on this is tentatively scheduled for June 26th. 00:07:38
When that's approved and starting July 1st is when this budget will be approved, correct? How many of the items that you listed 00:07:48
here? 00:07:52
Are finalized and non negotiable. 00:07:57
No. Well, so one important thing to think about with budget is a planning document, right? Yeah, so. 00:08:02
We are in the tentative phase. Well, yeah. But I think the bigger question is that the budget is we plan to spend money on these 00:08:11
things, right. So how, how many of these things are we contractually obligated as a city to pay for and how many of them are 00:08:17
negotiable? That's a good question. I mean, each project will be different in terms of where it's at in the in the in the process 00:08:23
of contracting. 00:08:30
And I, I don't know off top my head on each of these, but umm. 00:08:37
You know, it's kind of like imagine a budget and you say, you know, next year for public works, I'm going to spend, you know, 00:08:41
$200,000 on road salt or something. 00:08:47
You don't buy the road salt till you need it perhaps, right. So then you actually contractually enter that transaction during the 00:08:54
budget year. And so in many cases, these transactions won't occur until we're in that fiscal year. So it's quite likely that on 00:09:00
some of these. 00:09:06
There will still be additional negotiation about the particular prices, the particular services. 00:09:12
And, and so then the idea as well as you go into that transaction, you know you've got the budget plan of how much you're planning 00:09:19
to spend on that any given item, but the actual transaction won't occur until you're in that budget here. Are you wondering is 00:09:25
this carryover from a contract from last year? Sure. Are there are there projects here that we have already committed to spend? I 00:09:32
wonder is the parking master plan a carryover? 00:09:39
The parking master plan, it isn't that that that would be. 00:09:50
That the funds that would allow us to redesign 300 W that Betsy said, OK, then it looks like then it looks like we haven't 00:09:54
committed to any of these at this time. And the master plan would provide us more studies to analyze kind of the overall parking 00:10:00
situation, but that's that's the design work. 00:10:06
Just who, then, who drafted this budget, this proposal? 00:10:13
Staff. Staff didn't OK. 00:10:18
My I'm. 00:10:23
Obviously diving deep into RDA. 00:10:26
Trying to better understand it, so thanks for your patience with my questions, but. 00:10:30
One of the things that I continually find myself being concerned with. 00:10:36
Is that our City Council seems to jump quickly into decisions and I'm going to ask our City Council to be very careful about what 00:10:41
budget we approve for this fiscal year concerning this RDA and the and and let's. 00:10:51
Let's take some time to have a chance to review these projects and make sure that they are what's best for our city. So thank you. 00:11:01
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:11:19
I have a question, two questions on the 1st slide, if we can go back to that. 00:11:22
The 4th N pedestrian reimbursement and the 4th N Main St. signal finish. 00:11:28
I would like to have some more information about why are we getting a reimbursement and what is the signal finish. 00:11:37
Does that mean there's more to that project or is that just like a clear coat on the traffic signal? What is that all about? 00:11:46
That's a good question because as we were looking at the last slide, we talked about carryover and there wasn't carry over from 00:11:52
that. But to answer Kohl's question on this slide, is there carry over on these because these are reimbursements and are there is 00:11:57
there additional carryover? 00:12:03
So in the case of reimbursements, that's where maybe the city didn't actually pay for it, but contracted entity paid for it. And 00:12:11
so we have a contract to then reimburse the cost that has been spent. 00:12:18
And in terms of the signal finish, I'm not exactly sure the exact task that's leftover, but there's some additional work that has 00:12:26
to be that has to be done for that. OK. OK. So it looks like we have the 400 N pedestrian reimbursement call that looks like it's 00:12:33
a carryover for reimbursement and the traffic signal finish on Main Street is an outlying cost. Is there anything else that's 00:12:40
carry over? 00:12:47
I would just add that we have. 00:12:56
The sewer master plan and the drinking water master plan are both obligated projects that we're just continuing into this next 00:12:58
year. 00:13:02
Yeah. And on this one also, the promenade overpass has been committed and we already got funding from the state. So this is our 00:13:15
obligation. 00:13:19
So less than the last slide. 00:13:25
More from this fight and that would also be true for you. Have another question, OK. 00:13:28
Because we got. 00:13:36
Paul, does that answer your question on this? If you have more come on up. It's also important to note that in some cases the 00:13:38
funding source is tied to the project. So there's not always flexibility between these projects. So for example, with the Vineyard 00:13:44
beach improvement where the city is going to be receiving specific. 00:13:51
Restricted revenues for. 00:13:59
Tourism and travel, you know, that has to go for that project because that's what's been approved by the TRCC committee. 00:14:03
That's right. That's a grant. So it's just something we're adding in that we've been given for that project. Thank you for that 00:14:10
clarity. 00:14:14
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident, Can we go to the next slide? 00:14:18
I was under the impression that the City Hall design work of $2,000,000 was already in process. 00:14:25
It has not been committed. The City Council has not voted on it. 00:14:31
OK. Because we were led to believe that that wasn't something that was happening when we were at our last meeting. OK, thank you. 00:14:35
And then my other question is what is involved? It would cost $35,000 in the economic development strategic plan? 00:14:43
Yeah. So the economic development plan is going on right now and this was the City Council had chosen to kind of split it between 00:14:55
fiscal years and so this would be kind of the the last stakeholder meetings and then the final document preparation. So that kind 00:15:02
of the the end of what the public draft would be was put off for this fiscal year and they did all the analysis that the data 00:15:08
gathering. 00:15:14
During this year, is the master plan that they're doing a market study? OK. But isn't that done by staff? So I'm curious. 00:15:21
What we are paying $35,000, we have a consultant that we're working with. So that's ongoing. Then we've already committed to that. 00:15:27
That's not something that's new. It sounds like that's ongoing. OK, so that's another one that we're already committed to. Yes, 00:15:35
I'm, I'm slowly making a list so we can clarify. Thank you. Why don't we just go through them and see what else is committed since 00:15:42
we seem to keep being discovering, we keep discovering them as we go through them. 00:15:50
1/7. 00:15:59
Can we go through them? 00:16:04
For carryover. 00:16:08
Yeah, so we'll start with the beach. 00:16:13
Beaches grant, so that's restricted. 00:16:16
Wetlands permitting and engineering. 00:16:20
That's new contract. 00:16:24
Center St. Overpass. Wait, will you clarify, you said that's a new contract, like we haven't done it yet would be a new contract. 00:16:26
Thank you. What wetlands are we talking about? 00:16:31
The anything below the high watermark along that. 00:16:37
In your beachfront. 00:16:41
OK. 00:16:45
Center St. 00:16:48
Do we decide on Center St. 00:16:50
Yes, Center St. we had a landscaping design that was completed and have been approved by the city councils about a year ago. So 00:16:52
that this would be the funds to these, these would be the funds to implement that design. OK, So that's that's not a contract. 00:17:00
OK, So it's a continued project, but it just hasn't actually been executed yet. The Vineyard Connector promenade overpass, that 00:17:09
was the one that you'd mentioned? Yep, that's connected. Mill Rd. pedestrian enhancements. 00:17:15
That's new, new OK, 4th N pedestrian reimbursement. So that's obligated because it's a reimbursement the Main St. pedestrian 00:17:22
enhancements. 00:17:28
That's new, new, OK, 4th N Main St. traffic signal. So that's process that's that's already been in process, that's finishing up 00:17:34
an existing project. 00:17:39
Mill Rd. wireline loop. 00:17:46
New OK sewer master plan that's obligated economic development strategic plan, It's partially complete, so that's obligated 00:17:50
carryover project. City Hall design work, new new parking master plan. 00:17:58
So this is a carry on from the study that we're we're doing now. So this gives the funds to redesign basically 300 W and to 00:18:07
continue the analysis of accounts. So is that, is that the parking master plan that we're already committed to? Yeah. 00:18:14
Yeah. So it's extending that because when we did the master plan, what we found from the council is that there was a desire that 00:18:22
we, we, we do a design for 300 W this would accommodate that extra work. OK, carry over. 00:18:29
Let's see where we see our construction savings no and 4th N extension redevelopment. Hold on, what is savings if you're studying 00:18:38
my I don't, I don't I don't think it's savings. It's I mean it's not spending, it's just. 00:18:45
It's not obligated. 00:18:53
Right. So why are we doing City Hall construction listed in City Hall Savings? Now we're setting such a recommendation, putting it 00:18:55
in your bank account, so to speak. So it's it's money you're setting aside for a future project. 00:19:01
If I could clarify one thing, the plan right now, we updated it, but we didn't get it on the slide is to flip flop the numbers 00:19:09
between the City Hall design work and the City Hall construction savings. We've done a little bit more homework and it looks like 00:19:15
the design work will be less than expected. 00:19:21
Potentially even less than a million, but for now, expect that the next time you see this, that City Hall design work will be 00:19:28
$1,000,000 line item and the City Hall construction savings would be a $2,000,000 line item. OK. 00:19:35
And then Fourth N extension and redevelopment, that's a new project. And of course, the drinking water master plan is already 00:19:43
obligated. 00:19:47
OK. Thank you. Now that's clear. Did you have more comments with that? Yes, I don't mind. 00:19:51
I guess my concern and that's the part of the reason why I wanted to know ongoing versus. 00:20:02
When you, when you say staff developed the budget, this is partly where you five are our elected representatives. And as our 00:20:07
elected representatives, I hope that you are having input on what is being spent. OK, because rather than, and this is not to 00:20:15
discourage any of you, but government bureaucrats making those decisions and then coming to a meeting and approving that without 00:20:23
any input or any. 00:20:31
Say. 00:20:40
It makes it difficult for us to hold anybody accountable to that. And so as our elected representatives, I hope that you are 00:20:41
engaged in this spending of RDA money and using it in a way that unanimously or you know, that the board feels sorry the council 00:20:48
feels is best for our city. So thanks. Thank you. 00:20:55
All right. Other procedural explanation of what a tentative budget is and where we are in the process. I, I hope nobody leaves the 00:21:04
meeting with the impression that staff just developed a budget and then it is approved. The reason the state statute has a process 00:21:12
in it where you do a tentative budget and then a final budget is so that the council tasks staff with doing the legwork to develop 00:21:20
something that it can then review and react to. And So what you're doing in the hearing today is. 00:21:28
Is hearing from the public and then talking about the tentative budget. Your acceptance of the tentative budget doesn't obligate 00:21:37
or commit the city to any to spending any of those resources. What you're doing is acknowledging receipt essentially of the 00:21:44
tentative budget and then a final budget will come to you in the last week of June. 00:21:51
You have to approve the final budget before July 1 because you can't spend unbudgeted money once the fiscal year comes around. But 00:21:58
your approval today is not approving the budget. It's accepting what's been prepared so you can then begin to do the homework that 00:22:04
you would do as elected officials on what's been presented. 00:22:10
Right, but when you use the word that we would task them to do that, when did we task them to do that? 00:22:17
That's part of it when they were hired to their job, so, but wouldn't they meet with us to get that these ideas on of like, so 00:22:24
they just kind of pull it out like where would they, where would the idea originate from? 00:22:31
With my problem, it originates from carryover from the past things that have been going on, from discussions in our budget 00:22:38
meetings, from priorities that have been set, from the strategic plan, from their needs, from their departments to facilitate the 00:22:45
services and work that's going on. And they pull all of that together and then we get to go through it all with them. I think my 00:22:52
frustration is, is some of those ideas are from people that are no longer elected, right? 00:22:58
So shouldn't we be meeting with them, even though it is the department? I think you're trying to make a point about meeting with 00:23:07
staff, and I believe staff is. We'll meet with anybody on the council on it. We're throwing out the budget officer. I'm the 00:23:13
attorney, so they may not. That might not be the best thing to direct to me, but I think budgets generally for municipalities come 00:23:18
from a lot of different sources. They're not. 00:23:24
Invented so when staff does work on things like this they're looking at the general plan and what's provided there they're looking 00:23:31
at the city's strategic plan and what's provided there and then they. Some of these are a continuation of other work or responses 00:23:36
to. 00:23:42
Projects that are occurring within the city. 00:23:49
So they have some bearing in work that's occurred in the city before. I think it's unrealistic for a city to. 00:23:52
After every election cycle, drop everything that existed. Completely agree. You'll have opportunities to look at all of those 00:24:00
things, and you certainly have an opportunity here to look at what's in the budget and if you disagree with it, come to a 00:24:06
different conclusion. The point I was trying to make was just, I didn't want anybody to think that. 00:24:13
Adopting a tentative budget was the council blindly saying yes. Whatever staff possess will adopt. The tentative budget is receipt 00:24:20
of a document that you then can work on over the next six weeks or so before it's adopted. 00:24:27
Hi. Any other questions from the public? 00:24:36
Carson Walker, retired teacher. I wonder if you could go back to the slide on revenue? 00:24:39
The 10,500 projected. 00:24:45
Yeah, it's a different different file. 00:24:49
OK. So RDA property tax revenue right there, the 10-5, how much of that would be flow through from the Alpine School District? 00:24:52
Well, there's, there's no flow through because all the Rea revenue comes directly from the county. But I mean, I mean if your 00:25:02
point is that. 00:25:07
Property tax revenue that would have otherwise gone to the school district in terms of the increment then, then certainly a 00:25:13
portion, yeah. 00:25:17
A pretty large portion. Well, sure, because the school district is probably. 00:25:22
5060% of all property tax revenue. Got it. What are the personnel expenses for the budget for next year for the RBA staff? 00:25:28
Oh, it's. 00:25:41
Yeah. So the admin and or contract services can can cover some of the admin. So like for example, city staff, if they spend time 00:25:44
doing RDA work, then a portion of their compensation can be billed to this RDA fund. So if a city planner works on a overpass, 00:25:52
part of it could be city, part of it could be art. OK. 00:25:59
OK. And that goes to the RDA admin? 00:26:06
Well, RDA admins are revenue, so that's a formula. So a portion of the contract services. Yeah, that would be where it would be. 00:26:10
That would be in that bucket. Cool. All right. Thank you. Does it have any other questions about that? So I just wanna make sure. 00:26:18
Yeah, I just wanna make sure I understand this. So the revenue is gonna be 10 and a half million. If we didn't do the RDA, roughly 00:26:25
50 or roughly 5 to $6 million would be flowing to our kids. 00:26:33
Education. 00:26:41
But instead is being put into the RDA to build these things right? I think this is a difficult discussion. 00:26:42
I think this this is going to be a good point to clarify for the public about the term. If we didn't do the RDA, do you think you 00:26:52
could express? 00:26:57
Why we do the RDA and? 00:27:03
Well, you have to think about the whole concept of the RDA is you're only collecting. The RDA only collects revenue if and when in 00:27:07
the project area, the activities, the redevelopment activities have actually increased the value, the taxable value of that land. 00:27:14
And so that's the incremental value. And so it's the tax revenue that comes on that incremental revenue that's above and beyond 00:27:21
the base. 00:27:28
Taxable value of that land. So that if so, the theory of how the redevelopment process works in Utah, a couple of principles. The 00:27:35
first one is post performance. So in in other states there it is the case in, in in many states where government policy makers 00:27:43
have decided to incentivize some type of activity like redevelopment, for example, or economic development. There's lots of 00:27:50
terminologies and they mean slightly different things. 00:27:57
But what will happen is they might have special funds that they can use to give as a subsidy for some particular activity to 00:28:05
incentivize something. So for example, redevelopment in the case of Utah policy, all of our incentive and subsidy type activities 00:28:14
are post performance and the RDA is well tax increment financing specifically is one version of. 00:28:23
Incentive where? What must first happen? 00:28:34
Is performance on the part of the actor. So in this case development and the development increases the taxable value of that 00:28:37
existing land. And as that value then increases, that's called the incremental value. The tax revenue that's collected on that 00:28:45
additional increased value can then be used to go back to pay for some of those activities that occurred post performance 00:28:53
payments, right. So in the case of the RDA, the theory is that here's this land. 00:29:01
That's valueless or very low in value or in some cases people talk about a negative value, meaning that in order for it to become 00:29:10
valuable for activity to happen, whether that's development of businesses or homes or what have you, there would have to be a 00:29:18
significant investment in the in the land to make it useful, which which is the case with the former Geneva site. And so in that 00:29:26
scenario, there's a process which Vineyard went through, you know, starting in 2009 and kind of culminating in 2011 where they. 00:29:34
Designated a project area, they adopted a project plan according to state law for an RDA and they set a base value for that land, 00:29:42
that the base taxable value. And then the activities that occur in there for development that increase the value of that land then 00:29:49
contribute to that taxable value, which is the incremental additional value. And then it's the tax revenues on that incremental 00:29:57
value that becomes the revenues that you see here, their RDA property tax revenues, right? 00:30:04
So the theory would be, well, if we didn't do the RDA, so if we go back in time to like 2009 and we say we're not going to 00:30:11
designate the Geneva site as a project area, we're not going to adopt A project plan, then presumably what would happen is it 00:30:18
would sit as an, as a former industrial site and nothing would happen to it. And it would sort of be an eyesore, it'd be blight or 00:30:25
what have you. And it wouldn't be used for any productive use. And so that's why they they kind of create the that law to create 00:30:32
this opportunity to create an RDA so. 00:30:39
So that's why the tax entity committee, which is the school district, the county, the city, etcetera, all the taxing entities who 00:30:48
received property tax revenues from this area, they all have to agree. We're going to agree to forgo for a time the period of time 00:30:55
that the that the Rdas in existence 25 years in some cases, 40 years in in other cases. We're going to forego property tax 00:31:03
revenues for that period of time to allow those property tax revenues to be used as. 00:31:10
As a, as a payment to accelerate the development, because what we think will happen is that property will become so much more 00:31:18
valuable thanks to that investment that then we will receive a much larger property tax revenue from that area than we ever would 00:31:26
have otherwise. And so that's, that's why this mechanism exists. And so that's the, the basically that's the, the anticipation 00:31:34
that the school district is making when the school district agreed as part of that taxing entity committee. 00:31:42
To approve the RDA project area designation, to approve the RDA project plan, to approve the existence of the tax increment 00:31:50
financing and utilization of that tool. What they were deciding is that it'll be far better for the school district in the long 00:31:57
term. And so we're going to forego revenue in the short term because we'll receive more revenue than we would have otherwise in 00:32:05
the long term. So that's, that's kind of a history in a nutshell. And and the theory behind why there's that. 00:32:13
That collection of the incremental property tax revenue that's set aside, it's then reinvested in, in our case often to 00:32:22
reimbursement agreements for the building of infrastructure in the in the site as well as environmental remediation. 00:32:29
Which allows us to bring students, schools, teachers here that otherwise would sit as empty rent. And I know the founders of the 00:32:38
RDA and we're there and I've been able to sit down with them. 00:32:44
And the theory, especially what you say, it hasn't worked, it's not working. I went through the finances over the past week and 00:32:50
this is an abject failure. Like when you grab what the value was in 2006 when it started in 2011. Like, OK, I'm going to give you 00:32:58
an example of my home where my brand new home, the new one, not the old one, right? When you take a piece of property, when we, 00:33:06
when we, I just pulled up the tax right 2010 that law not not developable block was $55,000. 00:33:14
In 2010, in 2010, contacts, right? I'm just looking it up right now at the bottom of the market during that No 8-9. 00:33:22
But you guys also did the RDA is doing based off of 2006 numbers, right? Yeah, the base value was set based on 2000. And so one of 00:33:31
the things that people need to look back on 30 years is every year your taxes go up. Why? Because our house values go up. 00:33:39
You know my house, even on my old house, right? Generally speaking, taxes don't generally go up just because property values go 00:33:48
up, but the but the tax doesn't the value of the property goes up. So one of the things that's unique about Utah property tax just 00:33:56
to remember is that the value of your property appreciating is not a primary or really even a significant contributor to the 00:34:04
amount that you pay in property tax. 00:34:11
The value of residential real estate is rising faster than commercial real estate. There's more demand for residential real estate 00:35:34
than commercial real estate. And so there's been a few years where because of that inequity in the increase of demand for that 00:35:42
type of real estate, the values are changing differently. And as a result, the burden of property tax was shifting from commercial 00:35:51
to residential. So residences, residences are seeing maybe increased tax burden on them that has really nothing to do. 00:35:59
For 30-40 or fifty years. So if I, if I got to vote, I mean lock in a low value, just locking the value of what I would pay, 00:36:43
right? Like that's what we're doing with all the Rdas, right? And so let's say that I got the RDA just on my home, I would lock in 00:36:53
the 55,000 evaluation and I would have been paying the, the rate which I was paying back then, which is 600 and yes, $655, right? 00:37:03
So basically what we're saying is that these businesses get to lock in at that 655 rate just without doing any approvals. My tax 00:37:13
rate is not 655, it's 3800. 00:37:21
That's my yes, yeah. 00:37:30
And a lot of that's because Alpine School District, which is the right, but that's what I'm right. So but who wouldn't love to 00:37:33
vote right now and say that's what I'm saying. The RDA isn't functioning like it was and going and interviewing the founders of 00:37:40
what it is because of the values that are going up walking in all of this. All it is, is taking all of our money from our 00:37:48
education dollars and giving it to the developers. The modeling hasn't worked. 00:37:55
And they were good people, I know. But what I'm saying, I know. But what I'm, what I'm saying is it's going through the modeling 00:38:04
and seeing it that 10.5 million, like we shouldn't have done any of these deals. And we took a large section of money out of 00:38:11
education dollars. And now we're looking at these dollars and going, hey, let's go build other things with it instead of saying 00:38:19
maybe we should prioritize education. 00:38:26
And that's what's scary to me is I, and this is where I ask you a question. 00:38:34
Who are we paying to look back in the modeling to see if any of the decisions were profitable? And the answer is nobody. 00:38:39
I think you can say this without some of the decisions that were made, as Josh stated, there would be no development, no schools. 00:38:48
The people that live here that are before us today wouldn't be here. Their kids wouldn't be here. And so there wouldn't be the 00:38:55
opportunity that we have to invest the additional increment in their students, which I think is an important aspect. I think the 00:39:02
more accurate way to think about what the RDA does. 00:39:09
Is the RDA temporarily takes property tax revenue that would have gone to school because they're the largest taxing entity, right? 00:39:16
And it redirects that money to build infrastructure to create a city. So you had a, you had, you didn't have a city in 2009, 00:39:24
right? It was like 200 residents of, of the city of Vineyard in 2009. And now you've got, you know, 10,000 plus residents of, of 00:39:31
Vineyard, right? So what happened was you didn't have a city. And then the school district said, I'll tell you what. 00:39:39
We will not receive property tax revenue for 25 years and will allow those property tax dollars to instead. 00:39:46
No, this needs to be on the public record now, because this is the. I'm going to interrupt you just for a second, just to say, is 00:40:33
there something about I? 00:40:37
I hear you and this is what I'm hearing and I'm hoping we can find what you are trying to say. 00:40:42
You don't like that the Rdas, No, there's nothing that you can do about all of these previous engagements. What I'm saying is 00:40:49
moving forward-looking at it, you have to look at the modeling of what was done. Then there's a lot of chair to finish and it's an 00:40:57
abject failure. OK, So what I'm hearing from you is that you're sending out a signal that says look at the modeling. You're really 00:41:05
concerned that we are putting anything towards projects. Are there additional? 00:41:12
What we're doing basically is that we're gonna have to. And it was interesting. I had four calls from City Council members on the 00:41:20
Alpine split and they looked at the RDA and immediately they said, wait, you guys are taking money from your future education 00:41:28
dollars, county dollars and city dollars. So we will have to operate with less in the future because these entities that are now 00:41:35
here, Top Golf and all the other ones. 00:41:42
They are not going to be paying those taxes and that increment will be going back to them for the next 20-30 years and we're going 00:41:50
to be having to operate off of not that revenue is like one hand tied behind our back, right? 00:41:57
Yeah, I mean, and I think citizens need to understand it because as soon as I went through this, it was like. 00:42:05
The alternative is that you pay as you go, but you can only go as fast as you have gas. Before we go on, this has to come to some 00:42:11
kind of reason for why we're having the discussion. And I need to understand where you're going with the discussion so I can see 00:42:17
how long to keep going with this discussion because. Because if you're talking about going and spending this millions of dollars 00:42:24
that was before going to be set aside for. 00:42:30
City, county and the vast majority, like you said, 50% schools. 00:42:36
Our schools need this money like we can't just the founders of the RDA, what word to hey, we need to build, we have to build this 00:42:42
city as fast as we can. So let's take the money from our schools and build a city facet. Hey, our cities, our schools need they 00:42:49
need the same amount of taxes. So ongoing. And I think that's what Cole's question is, is how many of these are, are committed and 00:42:57
can we go back and look at the modeling and say, was this worth it or not? 00:43:04
Because even if you did nothing. 00:43:11
The cleaning of that, so there's 4,000,100 or 100,052, it goes towards cleaning specifically. So what are you proposing to do with 00:43:46
the money? If we didn't use it on our projects, our education needs to be. So you're saying that how much can I? Yeah, you can. 00:43:54
You're saying that we need to somehow change our capital projects and start listing high schools or something? No, what what I 00:44:02
would say is, is that we need to have a very long series conversation. 00:44:10
Of looking at the percentage of Vineyard City. 00:44:19
We're 49% the other cities, the next closest in the entire county is only 17. And if you drop off of that, it's like 6 and 2%. So 00:44:22
are you? Are you saying that you wanna go in and lobby to change legislation to somehow? 00:44:29
We're gonna stop this conversation for a second. What we understand I I think everybody hears you think, I think. 00:44:47
That we could have an education on the modeling and we can come back to that and. 00:44:56
If you want to have this conversation further if the if the citizens have questions or comments. 00:45:03
Hi, David Lara Citizen. Hey, I've noticed on the expenditures you had $2,000,000 for the City Hall but redesigned in savings and 00:45:11
plop those, so total is about 303 million there about. 00:45:19
I guess I'm wondering, the Redevelopment Agency was supposed to fund projects like roads and sewers, water, all those sorts of 00:45:28
things, and it's doing that that's great. But we were, I'm not sure it was supposed to fund public buildings. Maybe I'm wrong 00:45:36
about that, but I thought the main, main purpose was to help me help make the land clean enough to be able to develop. I know 00:45:43
besides the camera up there, we have a big, huge pile. 00:45:51
Of tailings and dirt that they scraped off there that they haven't taken care of or haven't treated. You've got some bushes 00:45:59
growing on and so forth. Other than that, when the wind blows, it's, it blows that dust back on the area they cleaned it off. So 00:46:06
I, I'm, I'm wondering, it seems to me there's more work that could be done towards cleaning up and that we might be wanting to do 00:46:12
that before we spend $30 million towards the City Hall when we have one. 00:46:18
Thank you. Did you have anything to add to that? 00:46:25
Well, just that the, that the purpose of the Rd. as outlined in the project plan document adopted back in, you know, around 2011 00:46:29
time frame and cleaning was not the primary purpose. There was a, there was a whole list of purposes, but amenities, 00:46:36
infrastructure, all of that was included. And some of the, a large chunk of the cleaning obligation in terms of cost is actually 00:46:44
the legal obligation and financial obligation of the US Steel. 00:46:51
And they're actually the largest contributor to the cost of environmental remediation and. 00:46:58
Just a more technical thing is tailings wouldn't be the accurate term for the the pile of debris that came from the mill, the sort 00:47:06
of complicated. But when you talk about exactly the types of materials that are in that pile versus under the Camus versus what 00:47:12
you would find in a mine, which is where you might talk about tailings, which is very different. 00:47:19
So all of the impacted material, which is the material that the US EPA required to be contained is under the camo. The containment 00:47:27
unit as part of what the camo stands for the the pile of debris is, is not the type of material that would have to be contained in 00:47:34
the in the same way. Just just to be clear. 00:47:41
Just a quick question. When we were founded, the school district had to sign off on it and so did the county. 00:47:49
Is that open-ended forever like they? Every project we do never goes back to either of those bodies and RRDA is the only person 00:47:57
that votes on new projects moving forward. 00:48:03
Like the spend and budget. So they authorized like a were the were the organization that does that, even though the half of that 00:48:11
is education or was education dollars. They said, hey, you take it and it never goes back despite, you know, 15 years of, you 00:48:20
know, once, once the once the project plan is complete in terms of its timeline, then the increment. 00:48:30
Expires and then the taxing entities get 100% of the revenues that they that they were gotten right. Currently all of the entities 00:48:40
still receive 100% of the tax revenue on the base value right, but that's miniscule it's pennies and then 25% of the additional 00:48:47
revenue correct. The 20 yeah, the 75 goes back to so but but my thought because I sat down with some kind of commissioners elected 00:48:55
and others. 00:49:03
And it was, you know, you're looking about bodies of government that you've had four different placeholders since then and their 00:49:11
dollars are still coming to this RDA instead of a. 00:49:17
You know what's traditional? And in a traditional city, when a city builds a City Hall, they do it off of revenues and taxation. 00:49:25
We're doing it off of future, you know, this tax increment financing. And it's like we're spending future dollars similar to 00:49:32
bonding. Yeah. And it's like that's what a lot of public entities do for infrastructure because you have a big expense. It's like, 00:49:40
you know, we need a freeway. Why? Well, let's let's save money for the freeway. 00:49:47
They take on the risk because they're only going to receive reimbursement if in fact the the values rise and the revenues come in 00:50:27
as expected or modeled as you were talking about. Karen. Well, did you have a comment? Well, the bottom line is reimbursement down 00:50:34
the road, but it's going to fall on the because of the taxpayers and the property owners. That's where that will fall on when you 00:50:40
bond. There's no way of getting around that. 00:50:47
The bonds are basically mortgage our future, mortgaging our future. That's what a bond does. So that was that's my concern. 00:50:54
We can bond for a school, we can bond for this. We need to be saving money for these things, not bonding for them. But the reason 00:51:05
I'm up here is I wanted to say how much I appreciate Jake sharing with us some of the history and helping us to understand. 00:51:14
That maybe we are. 00:51:24
Not going in the right direction, but I'm really frustrated to see all the eye rolling that I see up here and one particular 00:51:26
council member who's very frustrated and isn't not in any way, shape or form hiding that frustration. We, the people of this city 00:51:35
deserve these kinds of discussions. We deserve to hear this. And so, Jake, I appreciate that very much. And it's not always met in 00:51:43
the way that we would like to see it met. My question is on this strategic planning committee. 00:51:51
Do we have anyone representing the citizenry? Do we have anyone from the Council on there? Do we have any taxpayers on that 00:51:59
committee? 00:52:03
Who is representing us when these decisions are being made when we use these strategic planning committee? Can you clarify what 00:52:08
you're talking about for me? You've got it up there for $35,000. 00:52:13
We have got the economic development strategy, there are there's a steering committee, there's representatives, there's city, 00:52:20
there's city residents there. 00:52:24
How were they chosen? Appointed through the same processes that we do for all of our students. So you put out applications and 00:52:29
people apply to that. Or how does that happen sometimes on certain committees? That's how it happens sometimes. I want to know on 00:52:36
this committee, I don't care about the other committees. I'm concerned about this one because this, this concerns our future and 00:52:44
it's 10 years down the road. I'm not here and my husband's not here and our kids need to sell our property. 00:52:51
Someone coming in to buy that property is going to want to know what the tax liabilities in the future are going to look like on 00:53:00
that piece of property. And so I think as residents, we need to defend our position. And so I appreciate what Jake is saying. And 00:53:07
I feel bad when eyes are rolled and people don't want to take the time for this. This is our only time to learn these things. And 00:53:14
I don't want to be the bad guys because we come here to learn them. So I think, I think that. 00:53:21
I'm going to speak in the sense that I believe that the council cares about wasting your time. I'm grateful that you feel that 00:53:30
somebody is here representing you. I know that what we talked about was putting forward slides for additional education to clarify 00:53:36
any missing information that was out there and solidify information that was well put. And we'll get that out because I think 00:53:42
additional education is meaningful to the residents. 00:53:48
And then the public will make comment and you'll get to talk about it and express your opinions and the council will represent you 00:54:32
and they'll speak for you. And just like you're feeling representative day, those people will speak for you and they will make 00:54:36
those decisions. Then that it'll come to the public. Right now the steering committee is just helping form something to be brought 00:54:41
to the public so that people can see it. So, but thank you. 00:54:46
When a decision is made in a committee or by staff, that is what is rubber stamped here and I've seen that the whole time that 00:54:53
I've come here, I've seen people stand here and line up. 00:54:59
To ask you not to do something and within 20 minutes, that decision has been made contrary to what the public has asked for. So 00:55:05
it's concerning to me. And that's about all I have to say about it. I want to see the citizens represented and we deserve that. So 00:55:12
Karen and I would additionally encourage you to reach out to these people sitting here and, and have them express that even more. 00:55:18
So I feel like keep putting it out there and, and see, I mean, I keep coming here. We love having you and we love having hearing 00:55:25
your comments. Thank you. 00:55:32
So I have a question real quick. Hold on one second. Go ahead. Is there, is there a council member assigned to that committee or 00:55:38
is it just people you assigned? Yeah, for economic development. We have myself and Marty on these. They're Marty just joined 00:55:44
recently. 00:55:49
Yeah. So my my question is Carson Walker, retired teacher. 00:55:55
Is what happens with if and when Alpine School District splits to the RDA in Vineyard does. 00:56:02
Since it was started in 06 but didn't really trigger to 2011, does his Alpine School district on the hook until it ends or is the 00:56:10
new district because the parcels, the geographic land is in the new district? And just with that question, I want you guys to 00:56:16
think about as a council. 00:56:22
How that split potential split in Alpine School District impacts the property taxes of the residential to to pay for this 00:56:29
commercial rebate right to, to their, to their taxes to, to develop. And so if there is a split and the and the residential taxes 00:56:36
go up quite a bit. 00:56:43
Because of this RDA and, and the, the money that's flowing through to the commercial developers, you know, it's just, I, I just 00:56:52
see that as problematic. So if you guys could research or explain if you know. 00:56:57
What happens if Alpine School District splits to the TIF, to the TIF bonds, to the revenues projections, all that stuff? 00:57:02
Yeah, that's a really good question. We'll look into that. I mean, first blush is likely the district, although the district will 00:57:13
be defined differently if it splits in terms of bonds, the the bonds are, you know, any bonds that the RDA is taken out are still 00:57:20
obligated to the RDA. So the district's not really involved in that sense. And just to clarify, nothing about the RDA process, the 00:57:28
existing reimbursement contracts that the RDA has. 00:57:36
The future tax increment payments that might be made by the RDA and even the even bonds themselves, nothing about that creates a 00:57:45
future increase in tax burden for the taxpayer. The way the RDA works is it's whatever revenue the existing tax rate produces is 00:57:55
then utilized for expenses like reimbursements. So nothing about the RDA process creates a future. 00:58:05
Increase in in tax burden as was kind of you know discussed or questioned about right but it but it leaves a void because right. 00:58:15
But that's except for somebody was making a concern that like our taxes are going to go up in the future because of the RIAA. 00:58:22
Well, you're right it's like the school district could operate with a significant amount less with art but but. 00:58:29
How would you have a school district in the coming, you said 30 or 40 years work with about half of their, even less than half of 00:58:37
the modeling that we just saw. And it was like. 00:58:43
Do our citizens recognize that instead of future education dollars, that would be level to Linden and Orem? 00:58:50
And I think people need to understand the founders of the RDA I don't think ever envisioned this in the financing of our city is 00:58:59
not happening in any other city in the county we're financing off of this RDA. 00:59:06
The next 20 to 40 years in education. And I don't think any of our citizens recognize that. And my other concern is, is that. 00:59:46
What kind of conversation are we having with the school board? Because there were many school board people in the school split 00:59:55
that they immediately looked at us and said all of your future education dollars are already committed at 49%. How I mean, that 01:00:03
is, that is terrifying. OK, I have to, you know what I mean? I have to call this, this is a I'm it's the same conversation. 01:00:11
So I'm going to close this conversation again, just want to make sure I don't, I want to stop this conversation. We've got a plan. 01:00:20
We're going to build some information about it, to learn more about it. I think everybody understands the feelings, but we've got 01:00:25
to move on and allow the public to speak and ask questions public. Are there more questions that you have about the RDA tentative 01:00:31
budget today? 01:00:37
Yeah, please come up, David. 01:00:44
State your name. Where are your friends? Yeah, David Marie again. 01:00:46
I appreciate Mr. Dan has explained the, you know, purposes of the, of the RDA finds and so forth, not at least that, that pile of 01:00:51
knot tailings, but certainly stuff that we didn't want there in the 1st place so they wouldn't scrap it up. So it has some 01:00:57
militarious properties. What are we, you know. 01:01:03
That says we will reimburse you for cleanup on that property, OK. So, so when they get around to cleaning up that pile then if 01:01:49
they ever do and they'll think reimbursement at that time is that that new thing. And that's what Josh was saying. The added value 01:01:55
that comes to that site that we used in that increment will be dispersed to pay them back for the stuff they just paid to clean 01:02:01
up. Can I interrupt? I just went and did a tour of the site and they are definitely working on a lot of areas. There's a huge area 01:02:08
of land and so. 01:02:14
Go around it today, specific areas that maybe seem like they're not going to get around to, I mean. 01:02:21
It's kind of like reading your garden. You focus on one spot at a time. Well, the long term plan for the pile is to reduce it a 01:02:28
certain amount, but not eliminate it entirely. And then there'll be some development and construction on that site. Well, the kind 01:02:34
of construction that's put there. 01:02:40
Will be influenced by the fact that they're building a contaminated soil. So I don't know it would be accurate to call it 01:02:47
contaminated soil because anything that would be I think called contaminated is under the containment unit, the camo. So it's 01:02:54
really just a giant trash dirt pile. There's a whole lot of cement and you know, and dirt and things like that. 01:03:02
In the first place, I'm just wondering active material that's a little bit thicker than oil. 01:03:09
The timing is up to the developer that I understand you there. Yes, because they have to pay for it and then we have to reimburse 01:03:45
them for it. Thank you. Answer the question. Thank you, thank you. Can we get the interlocal agreement of what the school district 01:03:51
and county and all of us signed in 2011 and then #2? 01:03:57
And they have some additional role to play. I'm, I'm not, you know, an expert in everything that they do. But the US Steel 01:04:37
obligation is totally separate from the RDA and from the city. The weak answer you how that works. Yeah. And get you that 01:04:43
documentation. 01:04:49
No, that's their private company. Private. Yeah. It's their private legal obligation. It's their relationship with the federal 01:04:55
regulators that oversee some of their obligations related to to those environmental. 01:05:02
Requirements and things like that. OK, good question. Do they do they send a report of the work that they've been doing to the? 01:05:09
Yeah, to both the federal and state Department of Environmental Quality. 01:05:18
I thought we could get somebody to bring something down and help us see it. Yeah, we'll contact them. I'll put that on our list. 01:05:26
All right. Any other questions from the public? 01:05:30
OK. Seeing as there are no questions from the public, we'll go ahead and we have an option to close the public hearing or continue 01:05:35
it. 01:05:38
I just need a motion. What would be the benefit of continuing it? Whenever we finish the first meeting in June, we'll have another 01:05:46
discussion. So let's continue the public hearing. I move to continue the public hearing. OK, To the next meeting, OK. 01:05:53
Is that so we can continue to talk more and gather data? It's so that the public can come back and speak again because we will 01:06:01
continue to talk more and the tentative budget will come back that day. The final budget won't be presented until the last, the 01:06:07
last council meeting in June. This is just allowing the public another chance after we've gathered information to come back and 01:06:13
speak. I have more on the budget, but we can. This is just the public here. 01:06:19
You just need to stay to date. 01:06:27
I think it is the 12th. 01:06:32
Thank you, Tammy. 01:06:35
Yeah. 01:06:36
I've got no Marty made a first to continue the public hearing to June 12th. Can I get a second, second. Thank you, Sarah, any 01:06:39
discussion? All in favor? Aye. All right, Council, do you have more I mean or do you have more discussion? 01:06:47
Do you wanna go first? 01:06:58
I'm waiting on you, Sir. 01:07:00
The I got your e-mail, Josh about. 01:07:03
Not breaking down the. 01:07:09
437 admin fee or admin line of like is that admin you and all the staff that take to run the RDA? Yeah and there's and there's 01:07:13
other things too. But what that is is that's actually a revenue figure, right. So say we're gonna get this much money that we can 01:07:19
spend. 01:07:26
Well, yeah, but you can set it aside for I mean, there's there's a whole host of things that are. 01:07:33
Eligible for the admin portion to cover. My issue is this has to be a budget. It can't be hey we get a slush fund of $437,000 to 01:07:39
spend and then. 01:07:44
Your salary, this salary like this isn't a budget. I know you say that I don't get to get access, like I don't get granular access 01:07:50
to that, but that's just not acceptable to me. I think. I think as an RDA council, we should be able to go and say. 01:07:58
You know, this salary, that salary, this position, it can't just be some half a million plus half $1,000,000. This is how much 01:08:06
money is coming in. And me as an RDA. 01:08:12
Like why don't, why do you have a position that we don't get to know that and have it broken down? 01:08:20
Yeah. 01:08:59
The management of the RDA is managed by your RDA director. 01:09:04
The expenses are reported to the council and the council gets, or the board in this case gets to review those expenses and then 01:09:10
weigh in with additional policy if that is needed. But that is the purpose of having a RDA director in this case, to manage the 01:09:17
budget throughout the year under the policies that that this board has set forth. 01:09:24
I think I want to clarify that there must be some confusion of what it seems like would be normal where you're asking for who you 01:09:33
would hire to a transactional log. We don't need to have that discussion today, but I think in our meetings in the next few weeks 01:09:41
as we go through this with the board, I would love to sit down and understand the difference between those requests of 01:09:48
transactional law versus overall requests of staff time and things like that. 01:09:56
So that in the next meeting, we can clearly delineate what the board is having access to so that the people can understand that 01:10:04
there's transparency and that we do know what we are voting on either for two reasons. Two, to let people know that we understand 01:10:12
the budget, we know what we're voting for, and we have control of the budget and number and number. Wait, what's 12? I'm just 01:10:20
working backwards. And then #2 so that we can clarify the difference in those things so that there's not confusion about. 01:10:28
Or misrepresentation about those discussions. So I'm going to move that conversation aside and I'm going to, I want to see a 01:10:38
meeting come forward where we can sit down and gather together and talk about that probably. 01:10:46
So if I understand right, we're going to have a discussion of if I do or do not strategically get to have a breakdown of where we 01:10:54
spend our money. 01:10:59
Where we say $5000, the department heads or managers or. 01:11:38
Purchasing agent can approve $5000 without having to come back to the council. You wanted to bring it down from what I understand, 01:11:44
back to $200.00. And So what I want to understand is, is what you're asking for a $200.00 transactional cost or is it something 01:11:51
that you should have access to? I don't feel like we need to have that discussion here tonight, but we will do that discussion so 01:11:58
that you have what you need to make sure that you. 01:12:05
Can vote on this budget properly. 01:12:13
Yeah, I think we brought forth that idea of three, five, $1000, whatever that limit is. 01:12:17
And that is how we're going to move forward with this conversation. We're moving on to the next question because we have a 01:13:31
solution for this one. Can I, can I ask Jamie a question as a government body, if we're just voting on this much revenue, 5%, 01:13:37
which is half a million and I'm just approving it. 01:13:42
And is that legal for them to not give that access to us, like to break it down? I mean, if they have three votes, they can say 01:13:49
we're not going to know about it. First of all, you're not voting on not today, the approvals today, right? But obviously, we've 01:13:55
had this argument for four months of trying to get a breakdown on it and it hasn't been coming. 01:14:02
And we're in the final 3-4 weeks, right. I don't know that that's accurate on you not getting information that relates to the 01:14:09
budget. I do think some of the conversation. 01:14:14
Conflates budget line items which are broader than expense line items when you get an expense report and so. 01:14:20
There's a few ways I would think of framing the conversation if what you want to drive at is. 01:14:31
Policy that relates to how is money spent and how, how are those approvals? 01:14:37
Made The city currently has a procurement policy that gives authority for certain dollar amount expenditures to happen at certain 01:14:42
levels. I don't have the chart in front of me, so I don't want to tell you it's 5000. 01:14:50
You know under a certain level an individual employee can obligate money. 01:14:59
And then once you go from say 5 to 10,000, then it's a different level. And then if you get to a certain point, which is 50,000 or 01:15:05
more I believe. 01:15:10
Is that right? It's 50,000. We've actually got a presentation on that very thing for today. So well then I've worked. I'm not 01:15:16
going to steal the Thunder of that presentation, but. 01:15:20
Your financial controls over how money is spent. 01:15:27
It happens in two ways. You set the budget as the policy and then you have the financial controls in place of who makes the 01:15:31
decision on the various expenditures. If you don't put a category in the budget, then nothing can be spent on that category. You 01:15:39
have to have something in the budget that reflects that. So if there were. 01:15:46
Memberships or travel or things like that that you've mentioned that you don't like, you could not fund those things and then no 01:15:55
city monies could be spent on it. But if you had a line item, say for. 01:16:02
Something and money was spent on it as long as the approvals occur within. 01:16:10
Those parameters, then it would occur. It would be really unusual for a budget to try to get as granular as what you would get 01:16:17
when you get expenses and your report on expenditures. 01:16:23
And it's really for the reasons Josh mentioned earlier that. 01:16:29
You don't know what the price is going to be 6 months down the road, so you try to estimate what that is. You put it into your 01:16:33
budget, but when it comes time to buy it, you. 01:16:38
By within. 01:16:43
Your purchasing policy, yeah, at those levels and then where the council has control over it, and this is true of every city in 01:16:45
the in the state, is you get expense reports back and you can look at those expense reports and make sure that the way the money 01:16:51
was spent comports both with your budget. 01:16:58
And with your spending authority and policies of how those decisions are made. 01:17:04
Right. But how this is presented of here's 450,000 admin, there's nothing wrapped around that. That's not unusual for an RDA 01:17:12
budget to have categories like. And because we're coming back to the same conversation, I'm going to shut it down again and I'm 01:17:19
going to say we are actually going over the policy that Jamie is referring to. So that can be another conversation you can look 01:17:27
at, but Jamie can join us for this meeting where we go and we review these things and we bring it back. 01:17:35
And that's how we're going to move forward with that. 01:17:43
If I can wrap it with one quick description, the of that admin fee there is the the cost of of our RDA director and everything 01:17:47
else gets deposited or transferred into the general fund and is expended line item by line item in your FY25 budget. That is 01:17:55
helpful, Thank you. That is relevant. Carson Walker, retired teacher is asking a quick question. Jamie mentioned that cities have 01:18:03
pro permit and purchasing rules that you guys follow policies, guidelines, whatever. 01:18:11
My understanding is Rdas are kind of quasi or pseudo governmental and they don't have to follow some, maybe some of our all of the 01:18:20
rules that a city might. So does the RDA follow the same purchasing or procurement guidelines that you mentioned that the Vineyard 01:18:25
city would follow? 01:18:31
And maybe if you guys can answer that would be great. 01:18:38
For direct expenses, so things like personnel or. 01:18:41
Or those kinds of things. Yes, it follows the same protocols that the city would use otherwise. There are a number of RDA expenses 01:18:47
that where the city doesn't do the buying. So one of the reasons already is use reimbursement is we want the developers to hold 01:18:53
the risk and also we frankly don't want to have to. 01:19:00
Burdened the community with two concurrent or with two separate construction projects. So if you had the developer build the homes 01:19:07
and then you hit pause and the city comes in and builds the roads, you disrupt the neighborhood twice. So one of the things the 01:19:14
RDA and the reimbursements allows you to do is the developer with the construction crew that it mobilizes at the outset. It does 01:19:21
all of the work together and then they submit their receipts and their expenses that relate to the public infrastructure and then 01:19:28
we review that. 01:19:34
And then it's reimbursed in that way. 01:19:42
So you eliminate having to have two mobilization expenses for the construction you eliminate having. 01:19:44
To disrupt the neighborhood twice to do that work. 01:19:51
And you can put the burden of those things on the developer, but those are not direct city purchases. And so they're not made. The 01:19:54
city's not writing a check except for the reimbursement when it comes back. 01:20:01
One of the issues and problems with that is that there's no bidding process. So however that price is set up within the RDA, it's 01:20:10
sole discretion of that developer, right? 01:20:15
You control it in the reimbursement agreements by putting a cap. So you require an estimate at the beginning. They have to get 01:20:21
bids when they submit that estimate. And then we, I say we it's really you all as the RDA board. 01:20:28
Review their application, their estimate. 01:20:35
And then the all of the reimbursement agreements that I've been a part of, we put a cap on the cities participation And so if it 01:20:38
ends up costing more. 01:20:42
The developer bears that excess cost, not the city. 01:20:47
Other questions? 01:20:52
All right, if there are no other questions. 01:20:55
I would just say that I would love to strongly advocate the council. We get to control those controls and those rules. And I don't 01:21:00
think they're to the standard that I feel comfortable with. And I would hope that we would have a majority where we could review 01:21:08
those and get clarity. I I don't like that even on the. 01:21:16
A notice that went out that it's just very high level, you know, half a million. I don't think that because then it, it doesn't 01:21:25
allow us to get as granular and educated citizens coming in. 01:21:31
Especially 24 hours. So we keep talking about these government processes that are just very quick and easy because we're talking 01:21:38
millions of dollars. 01:21:42
In in massive projects for 24 hours notice taking money from education. 01:21:47
So it's like, is this worth it over funding our schools? 01:21:54
You know, I don't know. So I go back to process and I know we keep voting on that, but. 01:21:58
So you said, Jamie, the board is supposed to review the bids that come in and we're all part of that board, the entire City 01:22:06
Council. So by, by statute, the RDA board for each redevelopment agency is constituted by the City Council. The mayor becomes the 01:22:12
chair of the RDA board and then the council members are the members of the RDA board. And I, I, I said, well, never mind, I'll 01:22:19
hold that. 01:22:25
Apparently we need to have more meetings. 01:22:33
OK. I believe we've already set a date and a continuance, so I just need a motion to adjourn this meeting. 01:22:35
Actually, I'm just gonna have your name. 01:22:44
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Okay. 00:00:02
Yeah. 00:00:05
Yes. 00:00:07
All right, we're going to do that again. It's Wednesday. 00:00:10
So wait just a second. 00:00:15
Hold just a minute. 00:00:19
I don't want to hear you. 00:00:24
All right, today is Wednesday, May 22nd. We're going to go ahead and start our Redevelopment Agency board meeting. The time is 607 00:00:28
and Council member Holdaway will start out our meeting by giving us a prayer and meeting us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:36
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, we've our heads before these as a city leadership, grateful for the opportunity we 00:00:50
have to serve the great residents and citizens of Vineyard. 00:00:56
We ask for sincerity of heart and that we might be clear and that we might search out the desires of the citizens and that we 00:01:02
might be humble seekers of truth. We're grateful for the Constitution. We're grateful to live in this land. 00:01:09
We're grateful for the freedoms that we have and these things we pray for humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:01:17
All rise. 00:01:24
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:01:28
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:35
All right, we have something on the consent agenda. I just need a motion, unless you would like to discuss. 00:01:46
I move to approve the consent items as presented second, first by Marty, second by Amber. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye, all 00:01:55
right, carried. This brings us right into our business items, which is our tentative budget, our public hearing for our FY25 00:02:03
tentative budget and our RDA Director, Josh Daniels will be presenting this to us tonight. Before we get started, I'll go ahead 00:02:11
and ask the Board members to open a public hearing. So move. 00:02:19
Thank you, Marty. 00:02:27
All right, second, second by Amber. All in favor, Aye. All right. We are now in a public hearing. 00:02:29
Yeah, I mean, there's not, there's nothing formal to hearing. So you guys have the exhibits and then it's the same budget document 00:03:01
from last meeting. 00:03:10
I don't know if you if you have it in front of you, if you want my phone screen or what would be. Yeah, please put it on the 00:03:21
screen so our residents can see it. Thank you so much. 00:03:25
I. 00:03:30
So fun 25 in our city budget is the RDA fund, so you can see the revenues there. 00:03:37
These are of course estimated because we don't have property values. And so, you know, all property tax revenues are estimated or 00:03:48
forecast basically as part of your budgeting process, the admin that's a formulaic 5% of whatever the annual property tax 00:03:56
increment would be. 00:04:04
And of course, we've got some interest income. 00:04:12
We're not anticipating any bonding, so there won't be any bond proceeds, but we will anticipate potential grant receipts. 00:04:17
So pretty simple and then contracted TIF payments capital projects. 00:04:25
And of course, principal interest on debt service. 00:04:33
Pretty pretty straightforward. 00:04:39
Did we have any? Do you have the document that shows our capital? 00:04:44
Project syntax. 00:04:48
Yeah, let me let me get our capital project list here. 00:04:50
No. 00:04:57
Yeah, Kristen, you've got the. You have your slide. 00:05:12
I'll let you share that one. 00:05:16
I. 00:05:22
So there's your list of capital projects that could be covered by the RDA next year. 00:05:53
And we'll just give that one another minute. 00:06:07
I'm OK for that excite if I run out of. 00:06:23
And does anybody in the audience need this a little bit longer? 00:06:29
OK. 00:06:36
Then we can go to the next slide. 00:06:37
All right. 00:07:01
Are there any questions from the public? 00:07:03
Come on up. 00:07:06
State your name, where you're from, and then what questions you have. 00:07:08
Cole Kelly and I am in the lakefront area. 00:07:14
I'm curious your fiscal year 2024-2025 is that what's what month is that from is that it's obviously not a January 1, December 31. 00:07:19
What's what's this all, all cities in Utah are July 1 to June 30th. So it's the month of July through the month of June of the 00:07:29
following year. And so your your final budget approval it says on this is tentatively scheduled for June 26th. 00:07:38
When that's approved and starting July 1st is when this budget will be approved, correct? How many of the items that you listed 00:07:48
here? 00:07:52
Are finalized and non negotiable. 00:07:57
No. Well, so one important thing to think about with budget is a planning document, right? Yeah, so. 00:08:02
We are in the tentative phase. Well, yeah. But I think the bigger question is that the budget is we plan to spend money on these 00:08:11
things, right. So how, how many of these things are we contractually obligated as a city to pay for and how many of them are 00:08:17
negotiable? That's a good question. I mean, each project will be different in terms of where it's at in the in the in the process 00:08:23
of contracting. 00:08:30
And I, I don't know off top my head on each of these, but umm. 00:08:37
You know, it's kind of like imagine a budget and you say, you know, next year for public works, I'm going to spend, you know, 00:08:41
$200,000 on road salt or something. 00:08:47
You don't buy the road salt till you need it perhaps, right. So then you actually contractually enter that transaction during the 00:08:54
budget year. And so in many cases, these transactions won't occur until we're in that fiscal year. So it's quite likely that on 00:09:00
some of these. 00:09:06
There will still be additional negotiation about the particular prices, the particular services. 00:09:12
And, and so then the idea as well as you go into that transaction, you know you've got the budget plan of how much you're planning 00:09:19
to spend on that any given item, but the actual transaction won't occur until you're in that budget here. Are you wondering is 00:09:25
this carryover from a contract from last year? Sure. Are there are there projects here that we have already committed to spend? I 00:09:32
wonder is the parking master plan a carryover? 00:09:39
The parking master plan, it isn't that that that would be. 00:09:50
That the funds that would allow us to redesign 300 W that Betsy said, OK, then it looks like then it looks like we haven't 00:09:54
committed to any of these at this time. And the master plan would provide us more studies to analyze kind of the overall parking 00:10:00
situation, but that's that's the design work. 00:10:06
Just who, then, who drafted this budget, this proposal? 00:10:13
Staff. Staff didn't OK. 00:10:18
My I'm. 00:10:23
Obviously diving deep into RDA. 00:10:26
Trying to better understand it, so thanks for your patience with my questions, but. 00:10:30
One of the things that I continually find myself being concerned with. 00:10:36
Is that our City Council seems to jump quickly into decisions and I'm going to ask our City Council to be very careful about what 00:10:41
budget we approve for this fiscal year concerning this RDA and the and and let's. 00:10:51
Let's take some time to have a chance to review these projects and make sure that they are what's best for our city. So thank you. 00:11:01
Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 00:11:19
I have a question, two questions on the 1st slide, if we can go back to that. 00:11:22
The 4th N pedestrian reimbursement and the 4th N Main St. signal finish. 00:11:28
I would like to have some more information about why are we getting a reimbursement and what is the signal finish. 00:11:37
Does that mean there's more to that project or is that just like a clear coat on the traffic signal? What is that all about? 00:11:46
That's a good question because as we were looking at the last slide, we talked about carryover and there wasn't carry over from 00:11:52
that. But to answer Kohl's question on this slide, is there carry over on these because these are reimbursements and are there is 00:11:57
there additional carryover? 00:12:03
So in the case of reimbursements, that's where maybe the city didn't actually pay for it, but contracted entity paid for it. And 00:12:11
so we have a contract to then reimburse the cost that has been spent. 00:12:18
And in terms of the signal finish, I'm not exactly sure the exact task that's leftover, but there's some additional work that has 00:12:26
to be that has to be done for that. OK. OK. So it looks like we have the 400 N pedestrian reimbursement call that looks like it's 00:12:33
a carryover for reimbursement and the traffic signal finish on Main Street is an outlying cost. Is there anything else that's 00:12:40
carry over? 00:12:47
I would just add that we have. 00:12:56
The sewer master plan and the drinking water master plan are both obligated projects that we're just continuing into this next 00:12:58
year. 00:13:02
Yeah. And on this one also, the promenade overpass has been committed and we already got funding from the state. So this is our 00:13:15
obligation. 00:13:19
So less than the last slide. 00:13:25
More from this fight and that would also be true for you. Have another question, OK. 00:13:28
Because we got. 00:13:36
Paul, does that answer your question on this? If you have more come on up. It's also important to note that in some cases the 00:13:38
funding source is tied to the project. So there's not always flexibility between these projects. So for example, with the Vineyard 00:13:44
beach improvement where the city is going to be receiving specific. 00:13:51
Restricted revenues for. 00:13:59
Tourism and travel, you know, that has to go for that project because that's what's been approved by the TRCC committee. 00:14:03
That's right. That's a grant. So it's just something we're adding in that we've been given for that project. Thank you for that 00:14:10
clarity. 00:14:14
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident, Can we go to the next slide? 00:14:18
I was under the impression that the City Hall design work of $2,000,000 was already in process. 00:14:25
It has not been committed. The City Council has not voted on it. 00:14:31
OK. Because we were led to believe that that wasn't something that was happening when we were at our last meeting. OK, thank you. 00:14:35
And then my other question is what is involved? It would cost $35,000 in the economic development strategic plan? 00:14:43
Yeah. So the economic development plan is going on right now and this was the City Council had chosen to kind of split it between 00:14:55
fiscal years and so this would be kind of the the last stakeholder meetings and then the final document preparation. So that kind 00:15:02
of the the end of what the public draft would be was put off for this fiscal year and they did all the analysis that the data 00:15:08
gathering. 00:15:14
During this year, is the master plan that they're doing a market study? OK. But isn't that done by staff? So I'm curious. 00:15:21
What we are paying $35,000, we have a consultant that we're working with. So that's ongoing. Then we've already committed to that. 00:15:27
That's not something that's new. It sounds like that's ongoing. OK, so that's another one that we're already committed to. Yes, 00:15:35
I'm, I'm slowly making a list so we can clarify. Thank you. Why don't we just go through them and see what else is committed since 00:15:42
we seem to keep being discovering, we keep discovering them as we go through them. 00:15:50
1/7. 00:15:59
Can we go through them? 00:16:04
For carryover. 00:16:08
Yeah, so we'll start with the beach. 00:16:13
Beaches grant, so that's restricted. 00:16:16
Wetlands permitting and engineering. 00:16:20
That's new contract. 00:16:24
Center St. Overpass. Wait, will you clarify, you said that's a new contract, like we haven't done it yet would be a new contract. 00:16:26
Thank you. What wetlands are we talking about? 00:16:31
The anything below the high watermark along that. 00:16:37
In your beachfront. 00:16:41
OK. 00:16:45
Center St. 00:16:48
Do we decide on Center St. 00:16:50
Yes, Center St. we had a landscaping design that was completed and have been approved by the city councils about a year ago. So 00:16:52
that this would be the funds to these, these would be the funds to implement that design. OK, So that's that's not a contract. 00:17:00
OK, So it's a continued project, but it just hasn't actually been executed yet. The Vineyard Connector promenade overpass, that 00:17:09
was the one that you'd mentioned? Yep, that's connected. Mill Rd. pedestrian enhancements. 00:17:15
That's new, new OK, 4th N pedestrian reimbursement. So that's obligated because it's a reimbursement the Main St. pedestrian 00:17:22
enhancements. 00:17:28
That's new, new, OK, 4th N Main St. traffic signal. So that's process that's that's already been in process, that's finishing up 00:17:34
an existing project. 00:17:39
Mill Rd. wireline loop. 00:17:46
New OK sewer master plan that's obligated economic development strategic plan, It's partially complete, so that's obligated 00:17:50
carryover project. City Hall design work, new new parking master plan. 00:17:58
So this is a carry on from the study that we're we're doing now. So this gives the funds to redesign basically 300 W and to 00:18:07
continue the analysis of accounts. So is that, is that the parking master plan that we're already committed to? Yeah. 00:18:14
Yeah. So it's extending that because when we did the master plan, what we found from the council is that there was a desire that 00:18:22
we, we, we do a design for 300 W this would accommodate that extra work. OK, carry over. 00:18:29
Let's see where we see our construction savings no and 4th N extension redevelopment. Hold on, what is savings if you're studying 00:18:38
my I don't, I don't I don't think it's savings. It's I mean it's not spending, it's just. 00:18:45
It's not obligated. 00:18:53
Right. So why are we doing City Hall construction listed in City Hall Savings? Now we're setting such a recommendation, putting it 00:18:55
in your bank account, so to speak. So it's it's money you're setting aside for a future project. 00:19:01
If I could clarify one thing, the plan right now, we updated it, but we didn't get it on the slide is to flip flop the numbers 00:19:09
between the City Hall design work and the City Hall construction savings. We've done a little bit more homework and it looks like 00:19:15
the design work will be less than expected. 00:19:21
Potentially even less than a million, but for now, expect that the next time you see this, that City Hall design work will be 00:19:28
$1,000,000 line item and the City Hall construction savings would be a $2,000,000 line item. OK. 00:19:35
And then Fourth N extension and redevelopment, that's a new project. And of course, the drinking water master plan is already 00:19:43
obligated. 00:19:47
OK. Thank you. Now that's clear. Did you have more comments with that? Yes, I don't mind. 00:19:51
I guess my concern and that's the part of the reason why I wanted to know ongoing versus. 00:20:02
When you, when you say staff developed the budget, this is partly where you five are our elected representatives. And as our 00:20:07
elected representatives, I hope that you are having input on what is being spent. OK, because rather than, and this is not to 00:20:15
discourage any of you, but government bureaucrats making those decisions and then coming to a meeting and approving that without 00:20:23
any input or any. 00:20:31
Say. 00:20:40
It makes it difficult for us to hold anybody accountable to that. And so as our elected representatives, I hope that you are 00:20:41
engaged in this spending of RDA money and using it in a way that unanimously or you know, that the board feels sorry the council 00:20:48
feels is best for our city. So thanks. Thank you. 00:20:55
All right. Other procedural explanation of what a tentative budget is and where we are in the process. I, I hope nobody leaves the 00:21:04
meeting with the impression that staff just developed a budget and then it is approved. The reason the state statute has a process 00:21:12
in it where you do a tentative budget and then a final budget is so that the council tasks staff with doing the legwork to develop 00:21:20
something that it can then review and react to. And So what you're doing in the hearing today is. 00:21:28
Is hearing from the public and then talking about the tentative budget. Your acceptance of the tentative budget doesn't obligate 00:21:37
or commit the city to any to spending any of those resources. What you're doing is acknowledging receipt essentially of the 00:21:44
tentative budget and then a final budget will come to you in the last week of June. 00:21:51
You have to approve the final budget before July 1 because you can't spend unbudgeted money once the fiscal year comes around. But 00:21:58
your approval today is not approving the budget. It's accepting what's been prepared so you can then begin to do the homework that 00:22:04
you would do as elected officials on what's been presented. 00:22:10
Right, but when you use the word that we would task them to do that, when did we task them to do that? 00:22:17
That's part of it when they were hired to their job, so, but wouldn't they meet with us to get that these ideas on of like, so 00:22:24
they just kind of pull it out like where would they, where would the idea originate from? 00:22:31
With my problem, it originates from carryover from the past things that have been going on, from discussions in our budget 00:22:38
meetings, from priorities that have been set, from the strategic plan, from their needs, from their departments to facilitate the 00:22:45
services and work that's going on. And they pull all of that together and then we get to go through it all with them. I think my 00:22:52
frustration is, is some of those ideas are from people that are no longer elected, right? 00:22:58
So shouldn't we be meeting with them, even though it is the department? I think you're trying to make a point about meeting with 00:23:07
staff, and I believe staff is. We'll meet with anybody on the council on it. We're throwing out the budget officer. I'm the 00:23:13
attorney, so they may not. That might not be the best thing to direct to me, but I think budgets generally for municipalities come 00:23:18
from a lot of different sources. They're not. 00:23:24
Invented so when staff does work on things like this they're looking at the general plan and what's provided there they're looking 00:23:31
at the city's strategic plan and what's provided there and then they. Some of these are a continuation of other work or responses 00:23:36
to. 00:23:42
Projects that are occurring within the city. 00:23:49
So they have some bearing in work that's occurred in the city before. I think it's unrealistic for a city to. 00:23:52
After every election cycle, drop everything that existed. Completely agree. You'll have opportunities to look at all of those 00:24:00
things, and you certainly have an opportunity here to look at what's in the budget and if you disagree with it, come to a 00:24:06
different conclusion. The point I was trying to make was just, I didn't want anybody to think that. 00:24:13
Adopting a tentative budget was the council blindly saying yes. Whatever staff possess will adopt. The tentative budget is receipt 00:24:20
of a document that you then can work on over the next six weeks or so before it's adopted. 00:24:27
Hi. Any other questions from the public? 00:24:36
Carson Walker, retired teacher. I wonder if you could go back to the slide on revenue? 00:24:39
The 10,500 projected. 00:24:45
Yeah, it's a different different file. 00:24:49
OK. So RDA property tax revenue right there, the 10-5, how much of that would be flow through from the Alpine School District? 00:24:52
Well, there's, there's no flow through because all the Rea revenue comes directly from the county. But I mean, I mean if your 00:25:02
point is that. 00:25:07
Property tax revenue that would have otherwise gone to the school district in terms of the increment then, then certainly a 00:25:13
portion, yeah. 00:25:17
A pretty large portion. Well, sure, because the school district is probably. 00:25:22
5060% of all property tax revenue. Got it. What are the personnel expenses for the budget for next year for the RBA staff? 00:25:28
Oh, it's. 00:25:41
Yeah. So the admin and or contract services can can cover some of the admin. So like for example, city staff, if they spend time 00:25:44
doing RDA work, then a portion of their compensation can be billed to this RDA fund. So if a city planner works on a overpass, 00:25:52
part of it could be city, part of it could be art. OK. 00:25:59
OK. And that goes to the RDA admin? 00:26:06
Well, RDA admins are revenue, so that's a formula. So a portion of the contract services. Yeah, that would be where it would be. 00:26:10
That would be in that bucket. Cool. All right. Thank you. Does it have any other questions about that? So I just wanna make sure. 00:26:18
Yeah, I just wanna make sure I understand this. So the revenue is gonna be 10 and a half million. If we didn't do the RDA, roughly 00:26:25
50 or roughly 5 to $6 million would be flowing to our kids. 00:26:33
Education. 00:26:41
But instead is being put into the RDA to build these things right? I think this is a difficult discussion. 00:26:42
I think this this is going to be a good point to clarify for the public about the term. If we didn't do the RDA, do you think you 00:26:52
could express? 00:26:57
Why we do the RDA and? 00:27:03
Well, you have to think about the whole concept of the RDA is you're only collecting. The RDA only collects revenue if and when in 00:27:07
the project area, the activities, the redevelopment activities have actually increased the value, the taxable value of that land. 00:27:14
And so that's the incremental value. And so it's the tax revenue that comes on that incremental revenue that's above and beyond 00:27:21
the base. 00:27:28
Taxable value of that land. So that if so, the theory of how the redevelopment process works in Utah, a couple of principles. The 00:27:35
first one is post performance. So in in other states there it is the case in, in in many states where government policy makers 00:27:43
have decided to incentivize some type of activity like redevelopment, for example, or economic development. There's lots of 00:27:50
terminologies and they mean slightly different things. 00:27:57
But what will happen is they might have special funds that they can use to give as a subsidy for some particular activity to 00:28:05
incentivize something. So for example, redevelopment in the case of Utah policy, all of our incentive and subsidy type activities 00:28:14
are post performance and the RDA is well tax increment financing specifically is one version of. 00:28:23
Incentive where? What must first happen? 00:28:34
Is performance on the part of the actor. So in this case development and the development increases the taxable value of that 00:28:37
existing land. And as that value then increases, that's called the incremental value. The tax revenue that's collected on that 00:28:45
additional increased value can then be used to go back to pay for some of those activities that occurred post performance 00:28:53
payments, right. So in the case of the RDA, the theory is that here's this land. 00:29:01
That's valueless or very low in value or in some cases people talk about a negative value, meaning that in order for it to become 00:29:10
valuable for activity to happen, whether that's development of businesses or homes or what have you, there would have to be a 00:29:18
significant investment in the in the land to make it useful, which which is the case with the former Geneva site. And so in that 00:29:26
scenario, there's a process which Vineyard went through, you know, starting in 2009 and kind of culminating in 2011 where they. 00:29:34
Designated a project area, they adopted a project plan according to state law for an RDA and they set a base value for that land, 00:29:42
that the base taxable value. And then the activities that occur in there for development that increase the value of that land then 00:29:49
contribute to that taxable value, which is the incremental additional value. And then it's the tax revenues on that incremental 00:29:57
value that becomes the revenues that you see here, their RDA property tax revenues, right? 00:30:04
So the theory would be, well, if we didn't do the RDA, so if we go back in time to like 2009 and we say we're not going to 00:30:11
designate the Geneva site as a project area, we're not going to adopt A project plan, then presumably what would happen is it 00:30:18
would sit as an, as a former industrial site and nothing would happen to it. And it would sort of be an eyesore, it'd be blight or 00:30:25
what have you. And it wouldn't be used for any productive use. And so that's why they they kind of create the that law to create 00:30:32
this opportunity to create an RDA so. 00:30:39
So that's why the tax entity committee, which is the school district, the county, the city, etcetera, all the taxing entities who 00:30:48
received property tax revenues from this area, they all have to agree. We're going to agree to forgo for a time the period of time 00:30:55
that the that the Rdas in existence 25 years in some cases, 40 years in in other cases. We're going to forego property tax 00:31:03
revenues for that period of time to allow those property tax revenues to be used as. 00:31:10
As a, as a payment to accelerate the development, because what we think will happen is that property will become so much more 00:31:18
valuable thanks to that investment that then we will receive a much larger property tax revenue from that area than we ever would 00:31:26
have otherwise. And so that's, that's why this mechanism exists. And so that's the, the basically that's the, the anticipation 00:31:34
that the school district is making when the school district agreed as part of that taxing entity committee. 00:31:42
To approve the RDA project area designation, to approve the RDA project plan, to approve the existence of the tax increment 00:31:50
financing and utilization of that tool. What they were deciding is that it'll be far better for the school district in the long 00:31:57
term. And so we're going to forego revenue in the short term because we'll receive more revenue than we would have otherwise in 00:32:05
the long term. So that's, that's kind of a history in a nutshell. And and the theory behind why there's that. 00:32:13
That collection of the incremental property tax revenue that's set aside, it's then reinvested in, in our case often to 00:32:22
reimbursement agreements for the building of infrastructure in the in the site as well as environmental remediation. 00:32:29
Which allows us to bring students, schools, teachers here that otherwise would sit as empty rent. And I know the founders of the 00:32:38
RDA and we're there and I've been able to sit down with them. 00:32:44
And the theory, especially what you say, it hasn't worked, it's not working. I went through the finances over the past week and 00:32:50
this is an abject failure. Like when you grab what the value was in 2006 when it started in 2011. Like, OK, I'm going to give you 00:32:58
an example of my home where my brand new home, the new one, not the old one, right? When you take a piece of property, when we, 00:33:06
when we, I just pulled up the tax right 2010 that law not not developable block was $55,000. 00:33:14
In 2010, in 2010, contacts, right? I'm just looking it up right now at the bottom of the market during that No 8-9. 00:33:22
But you guys also did the RDA is doing based off of 2006 numbers, right? Yeah, the base value was set based on 2000. And so one of 00:33:31
the things that people need to look back on 30 years is every year your taxes go up. Why? Because our house values go up. 00:33:39
You know my house, even on my old house, right? Generally speaking, taxes don't generally go up just because property values go 00:33:48
up, but the but the tax doesn't the value of the property goes up. So one of the things that's unique about Utah property tax just 00:33:56
to remember is that the value of your property appreciating is not a primary or really even a significant contributor to the 00:34:04
amount that you pay in property tax. 00:34:11
The value of residential real estate is rising faster than commercial real estate. There's more demand for residential real estate 00:35:34
than commercial real estate. And so there's been a few years where because of that inequity in the increase of demand for that 00:35:42
type of real estate, the values are changing differently. And as a result, the burden of property tax was shifting from commercial 00:35:51
to residential. So residences, residences are seeing maybe increased tax burden on them that has really nothing to do. 00:35:59
For 30-40 or fifty years. So if I, if I got to vote, I mean lock in a low value, just locking the value of what I would pay, 00:36:43
right? Like that's what we're doing with all the Rdas, right? And so let's say that I got the RDA just on my home, I would lock in 00:36:53
the 55,000 evaluation and I would have been paying the, the rate which I was paying back then, which is 600 and yes, $655, right? 00:37:03
So basically what we're saying is that these businesses get to lock in at that 655 rate just without doing any approvals. My tax 00:37:13
rate is not 655, it's 3800. 00:37:21
That's my yes, yeah. 00:37:30
And a lot of that's because Alpine School District, which is the right, but that's what I'm right. So but who wouldn't love to 00:37:33
vote right now and say that's what I'm saying. The RDA isn't functioning like it was and going and interviewing the founders of 00:37:40
what it is because of the values that are going up walking in all of this. All it is, is taking all of our money from our 00:37:48
education dollars and giving it to the developers. The modeling hasn't worked. 00:37:55
And they were good people, I know. But what I'm saying, I know. But what I'm, what I'm saying is it's going through the modeling 00:38:04
and seeing it that 10.5 million, like we shouldn't have done any of these deals. And we took a large section of money out of 00:38:11
education dollars. And now we're looking at these dollars and going, hey, let's go build other things with it instead of saying 00:38:19
maybe we should prioritize education. 00:38:26
And that's what's scary to me is I, and this is where I ask you a question. 00:38:34
Who are we paying to look back in the modeling to see if any of the decisions were profitable? And the answer is nobody. 00:38:39
I think you can say this without some of the decisions that were made, as Josh stated, there would be no development, no schools. 00:38:48
The people that live here that are before us today wouldn't be here. Their kids wouldn't be here. And so there wouldn't be the 00:38:55
opportunity that we have to invest the additional increment in their students, which I think is an important aspect. I think the 00:39:02
more accurate way to think about what the RDA does. 00:39:09
Is the RDA temporarily takes property tax revenue that would have gone to school because they're the largest taxing entity, right? 00:39:16
And it redirects that money to build infrastructure to create a city. So you had a, you had, you didn't have a city in 2009, 00:39:24
right? It was like 200 residents of, of the city of Vineyard in 2009. And now you've got, you know, 10,000 plus residents of, of 00:39:31
Vineyard, right? So what happened was you didn't have a city. And then the school district said, I'll tell you what. 00:39:39
We will not receive property tax revenue for 25 years and will allow those property tax dollars to instead. 00:39:46
No, this needs to be on the public record now, because this is the. I'm going to interrupt you just for a second, just to say, is 00:40:33
there something about I? 00:40:37
I hear you and this is what I'm hearing and I'm hoping we can find what you are trying to say. 00:40:42
You don't like that the Rdas, No, there's nothing that you can do about all of these previous engagements. What I'm saying is 00:40:49
moving forward-looking at it, you have to look at the modeling of what was done. Then there's a lot of chair to finish and it's an 00:40:57
abject failure. OK, So what I'm hearing from you is that you're sending out a signal that says look at the modeling. You're really 00:41:05
concerned that we are putting anything towards projects. Are there additional? 00:41:12
What we're doing basically is that we're gonna have to. And it was interesting. I had four calls from City Council members on the 00:41:20
Alpine split and they looked at the RDA and immediately they said, wait, you guys are taking money from your future education 00:41:28
dollars, county dollars and city dollars. So we will have to operate with less in the future because these entities that are now 00:41:35
here, Top Golf and all the other ones. 00:41:42
They are not going to be paying those taxes and that increment will be going back to them for the next 20-30 years and we're going 00:41:50
to be having to operate off of not that revenue is like one hand tied behind our back, right? 00:41:57
Yeah, I mean, and I think citizens need to understand it because as soon as I went through this, it was like. 00:42:05
The alternative is that you pay as you go, but you can only go as fast as you have gas. Before we go on, this has to come to some 00:42:11
kind of reason for why we're having the discussion. And I need to understand where you're going with the discussion so I can see 00:42:17
how long to keep going with this discussion because. Because if you're talking about going and spending this millions of dollars 00:42:24
that was before going to be set aside for. 00:42:30
City, county and the vast majority, like you said, 50% schools. 00:42:36
Our schools need this money like we can't just the founders of the RDA, what word to hey, we need to build, we have to build this 00:42:42
city as fast as we can. So let's take the money from our schools and build a city facet. Hey, our cities, our schools need they 00:42:49
need the same amount of taxes. So ongoing. And I think that's what Cole's question is, is how many of these are, are committed and 00:42:57
can we go back and look at the modeling and say, was this worth it or not? 00:43:04
Because even if you did nothing. 00:43:11
The cleaning of that, so there's 4,000,100 or 100,052, it goes towards cleaning specifically. So what are you proposing to do with 00:43:46
the money? If we didn't use it on our projects, our education needs to be. So you're saying that how much can I? Yeah, you can. 00:43:54
You're saying that we need to somehow change our capital projects and start listing high schools or something? No, what what I 00:44:02
would say is, is that we need to have a very long series conversation. 00:44:10
Of looking at the percentage of Vineyard City. 00:44:19
We're 49% the other cities, the next closest in the entire county is only 17. And if you drop off of that, it's like 6 and 2%. So 00:44:22
are you? Are you saying that you wanna go in and lobby to change legislation to somehow? 00:44:29
We're gonna stop this conversation for a second. What we understand I I think everybody hears you think, I think. 00:44:47
That we could have an education on the modeling and we can come back to that and. 00:44:56
If you want to have this conversation further if the if the citizens have questions or comments. 00:45:03
Hi, David Lara Citizen. Hey, I've noticed on the expenditures you had $2,000,000 for the City Hall but redesigned in savings and 00:45:11
plop those, so total is about 303 million there about. 00:45:19
I guess I'm wondering, the Redevelopment Agency was supposed to fund projects like roads and sewers, water, all those sorts of 00:45:28
things, and it's doing that that's great. But we were, I'm not sure it was supposed to fund public buildings. Maybe I'm wrong 00:45:36
about that, but I thought the main, main purpose was to help me help make the land clean enough to be able to develop. I know 00:45:43
besides the camera up there, we have a big, huge pile. 00:45:51
Of tailings and dirt that they scraped off there that they haven't taken care of or haven't treated. You've got some bushes 00:45:59
growing on and so forth. Other than that, when the wind blows, it's, it blows that dust back on the area they cleaned it off. So 00:46:06
I, I'm, I'm wondering, it seems to me there's more work that could be done towards cleaning up and that we might be wanting to do 00:46:12
that before we spend $30 million towards the City Hall when we have one. 00:46:18
Thank you. Did you have anything to add to that? 00:46:25
Well, just that the, that the purpose of the Rd. as outlined in the project plan document adopted back in, you know, around 2011 00:46:29
time frame and cleaning was not the primary purpose. There was a, there was a whole list of purposes, but amenities, 00:46:36
infrastructure, all of that was included. And some of the, a large chunk of the cleaning obligation in terms of cost is actually 00:46:44
the legal obligation and financial obligation of the US Steel. 00:46:51
And they're actually the largest contributor to the cost of environmental remediation and. 00:46:58
Just a more technical thing is tailings wouldn't be the accurate term for the the pile of debris that came from the mill, the sort 00:47:06
of complicated. But when you talk about exactly the types of materials that are in that pile versus under the Camus versus what 00:47:12
you would find in a mine, which is where you might talk about tailings, which is very different. 00:47:19
So all of the impacted material, which is the material that the US EPA required to be contained is under the camo. The containment 00:47:27
unit as part of what the camo stands for the the pile of debris is, is not the type of material that would have to be contained in 00:47:34
the in the same way. Just just to be clear. 00:47:41
Just a quick question. When we were founded, the school district had to sign off on it and so did the county. 00:47:49
Is that open-ended forever like they? Every project we do never goes back to either of those bodies and RRDA is the only person 00:47:57
that votes on new projects moving forward. 00:48:03
Like the spend and budget. So they authorized like a were the were the organization that does that, even though the half of that 00:48:11
is education or was education dollars. They said, hey, you take it and it never goes back despite, you know, 15 years of, you 00:48:20
know, once, once the once the project plan is complete in terms of its timeline, then the increment. 00:48:30
Expires and then the taxing entities get 100% of the revenues that they that they were gotten right. Currently all of the entities 00:48:40
still receive 100% of the tax revenue on the base value right, but that's miniscule it's pennies and then 25% of the additional 00:48:47
revenue correct. The 20 yeah, the 75 goes back to so but but my thought because I sat down with some kind of commissioners elected 00:48:55
and others. 00:49:03
And it was, you know, you're looking about bodies of government that you've had four different placeholders since then and their 00:49:11
dollars are still coming to this RDA instead of a. 00:49:17
You know what's traditional? And in a traditional city, when a city builds a City Hall, they do it off of revenues and taxation. 00:49:25
We're doing it off of future, you know, this tax increment financing. And it's like we're spending future dollars similar to 00:49:32
bonding. Yeah. And it's like that's what a lot of public entities do for infrastructure because you have a big expense. It's like, 00:49:40
you know, we need a freeway. Why? Well, let's let's save money for the freeway. 00:49:47
They take on the risk because they're only going to receive reimbursement if in fact the the values rise and the revenues come in 00:50:27
as expected or modeled as you were talking about. Karen. Well, did you have a comment? Well, the bottom line is reimbursement down 00:50:34
the road, but it's going to fall on the because of the taxpayers and the property owners. That's where that will fall on when you 00:50:40
bond. There's no way of getting around that. 00:50:47
The bonds are basically mortgage our future, mortgaging our future. That's what a bond does. So that was that's my concern. 00:50:54
We can bond for a school, we can bond for this. We need to be saving money for these things, not bonding for them. But the reason 00:51:05
I'm up here is I wanted to say how much I appreciate Jake sharing with us some of the history and helping us to understand. 00:51:14
That maybe we are. 00:51:24
Not going in the right direction, but I'm really frustrated to see all the eye rolling that I see up here and one particular 00:51:26
council member who's very frustrated and isn't not in any way, shape or form hiding that frustration. We, the people of this city 00:51:35
deserve these kinds of discussions. We deserve to hear this. And so, Jake, I appreciate that very much. And it's not always met in 00:51:43
the way that we would like to see it met. My question is on this strategic planning committee. 00:51:51
Do we have anyone representing the citizenry? Do we have anyone from the Council on there? Do we have any taxpayers on that 00:51:59
committee? 00:52:03
Who is representing us when these decisions are being made when we use these strategic planning committee? Can you clarify what 00:52:08
you're talking about for me? You've got it up there for $35,000. 00:52:13
We have got the economic development strategy, there are there's a steering committee, there's representatives, there's city, 00:52:20
there's city residents there. 00:52:24
How were they chosen? Appointed through the same processes that we do for all of our students. So you put out applications and 00:52:29
people apply to that. Or how does that happen sometimes on certain committees? That's how it happens sometimes. I want to know on 00:52:36
this committee, I don't care about the other committees. I'm concerned about this one because this, this concerns our future and 00:52:44
it's 10 years down the road. I'm not here and my husband's not here and our kids need to sell our property. 00:52:51
Someone coming in to buy that property is going to want to know what the tax liabilities in the future are going to look like on 00:53:00
that piece of property. And so I think as residents, we need to defend our position. And so I appreciate what Jake is saying. And 00:53:07
I feel bad when eyes are rolled and people don't want to take the time for this. This is our only time to learn these things. And 00:53:14
I don't want to be the bad guys because we come here to learn them. So I think, I think that. 00:53:21
I'm going to speak in the sense that I believe that the council cares about wasting your time. I'm grateful that you feel that 00:53:30
somebody is here representing you. I know that what we talked about was putting forward slides for additional education to clarify 00:53:36
any missing information that was out there and solidify information that was well put. And we'll get that out because I think 00:53:42
additional education is meaningful to the residents. 00:53:48
And then the public will make comment and you'll get to talk about it and express your opinions and the council will represent you 00:54:32
and they'll speak for you. And just like you're feeling representative day, those people will speak for you and they will make 00:54:36
those decisions. Then that it'll come to the public. Right now the steering committee is just helping form something to be brought 00:54:41
to the public so that people can see it. So, but thank you. 00:54:46
When a decision is made in a committee or by staff, that is what is rubber stamped here and I've seen that the whole time that 00:54:53
I've come here, I've seen people stand here and line up. 00:54:59
To ask you not to do something and within 20 minutes, that decision has been made contrary to what the public has asked for. So 00:55:05
it's concerning to me. And that's about all I have to say about it. I want to see the citizens represented and we deserve that. So 00:55:12
Karen and I would additionally encourage you to reach out to these people sitting here and, and have them express that even more. 00:55:18
So I feel like keep putting it out there and, and see, I mean, I keep coming here. We love having you and we love having hearing 00:55:25
your comments. Thank you. 00:55:32
So I have a question real quick. Hold on one second. Go ahead. Is there, is there a council member assigned to that committee or 00:55:38
is it just people you assigned? Yeah, for economic development. We have myself and Marty on these. They're Marty just joined 00:55:44
recently. 00:55:49
Yeah. So my my question is Carson Walker, retired teacher. 00:55:55
Is what happens with if and when Alpine School District splits to the RDA in Vineyard does. 00:56:02
Since it was started in 06 but didn't really trigger to 2011, does his Alpine School district on the hook until it ends or is the 00:56:10
new district because the parcels, the geographic land is in the new district? And just with that question, I want you guys to 00:56:16
think about as a council. 00:56:22
How that split potential split in Alpine School District impacts the property taxes of the residential to to pay for this 00:56:29
commercial rebate right to, to their, to their taxes to, to develop. And so if there is a split and the and the residential taxes 00:56:36
go up quite a bit. 00:56:43
Because of this RDA and, and the, the money that's flowing through to the commercial developers, you know, it's just, I, I just 00:56:52
see that as problematic. So if you guys could research or explain if you know. 00:56:57
What happens if Alpine School District splits to the TIF, to the TIF bonds, to the revenues projections, all that stuff? 00:57:02
Yeah, that's a really good question. We'll look into that. I mean, first blush is likely the district, although the district will 00:57:13
be defined differently if it splits in terms of bonds, the the bonds are, you know, any bonds that the RDA is taken out are still 00:57:20
obligated to the RDA. So the district's not really involved in that sense. And just to clarify, nothing about the RDA process, the 00:57:28
existing reimbursement contracts that the RDA has. 00:57:36
The future tax increment payments that might be made by the RDA and even the even bonds themselves, nothing about that creates a 00:57:45
future increase in tax burden for the taxpayer. The way the RDA works is it's whatever revenue the existing tax rate produces is 00:57:55
then utilized for expenses like reimbursements. So nothing about the RDA process creates a future. 00:58:05
Increase in in tax burden as was kind of you know discussed or questioned about right but it but it leaves a void because right. 00:58:15
But that's except for somebody was making a concern that like our taxes are going to go up in the future because of the RIAA. 00:58:22
Well, you're right it's like the school district could operate with a significant amount less with art but but. 00:58:29
How would you have a school district in the coming, you said 30 or 40 years work with about half of their, even less than half of 00:58:37
the modeling that we just saw. And it was like. 00:58:43
Do our citizens recognize that instead of future education dollars, that would be level to Linden and Orem? 00:58:50
And I think people need to understand the founders of the RDA I don't think ever envisioned this in the financing of our city is 00:58:59
not happening in any other city in the county we're financing off of this RDA. 00:59:06
The next 20 to 40 years in education. And I don't think any of our citizens recognize that. And my other concern is, is that. 00:59:46
What kind of conversation are we having with the school board? Because there were many school board people in the school split 00:59:55
that they immediately looked at us and said all of your future education dollars are already committed at 49%. How I mean, that 01:00:03
is, that is terrifying. OK, I have to, you know what I mean? I have to call this, this is a I'm it's the same conversation. 01:00:11
So I'm going to close this conversation again, just want to make sure I don't, I want to stop this conversation. We've got a plan. 01:00:20
We're going to build some information about it, to learn more about it. I think everybody understands the feelings, but we've got 01:00:25
to move on and allow the public to speak and ask questions public. Are there more questions that you have about the RDA tentative 01:00:31
budget today? 01:00:37
Yeah, please come up, David. 01:00:44
State your name. Where are your friends? Yeah, David Marie again. 01:00:46
I appreciate Mr. Dan has explained the, you know, purposes of the, of the RDA finds and so forth, not at least that, that pile of 01:00:51
knot tailings, but certainly stuff that we didn't want there in the 1st place so they wouldn't scrap it up. So it has some 01:00:57
militarious properties. What are we, you know. 01:01:03
That says we will reimburse you for cleanup on that property, OK. So, so when they get around to cleaning up that pile then if 01:01:49
they ever do and they'll think reimbursement at that time is that that new thing. And that's what Josh was saying. The added value 01:01:55
that comes to that site that we used in that increment will be dispersed to pay them back for the stuff they just paid to clean 01:02:01
up. Can I interrupt? I just went and did a tour of the site and they are definitely working on a lot of areas. There's a huge area 01:02:08
of land and so. 01:02:14
Go around it today, specific areas that maybe seem like they're not going to get around to, I mean. 01:02:21
It's kind of like reading your garden. You focus on one spot at a time. Well, the long term plan for the pile is to reduce it a 01:02:28
certain amount, but not eliminate it entirely. And then there'll be some development and construction on that site. Well, the kind 01:02:34
of construction that's put there. 01:02:40
Will be influenced by the fact that they're building a contaminated soil. So I don't know it would be accurate to call it 01:02:47
contaminated soil because anything that would be I think called contaminated is under the containment unit, the camo. So it's 01:02:54
really just a giant trash dirt pile. There's a whole lot of cement and you know, and dirt and things like that. 01:03:02
In the first place, I'm just wondering active material that's a little bit thicker than oil. 01:03:09
The timing is up to the developer that I understand you there. Yes, because they have to pay for it and then we have to reimburse 01:03:45
them for it. Thank you. Answer the question. Thank you, thank you. Can we get the interlocal agreement of what the school district 01:03:51
and county and all of us signed in 2011 and then #2? 01:03:57
And they have some additional role to play. I'm, I'm not, you know, an expert in everything that they do. But the US Steel 01:04:37
obligation is totally separate from the RDA and from the city. The weak answer you how that works. Yeah. And get you that 01:04:43
documentation. 01:04:49
No, that's their private company. Private. Yeah. It's their private legal obligation. It's their relationship with the federal 01:04:55
regulators that oversee some of their obligations related to to those environmental. 01:05:02
Requirements and things like that. OK, good question. Do they do they send a report of the work that they've been doing to the? 01:05:09
Yeah, to both the federal and state Department of Environmental Quality. 01:05:18
I thought we could get somebody to bring something down and help us see it. Yeah, we'll contact them. I'll put that on our list. 01:05:26
All right. Any other questions from the public? 01:05:30
OK. Seeing as there are no questions from the public, we'll go ahead and we have an option to close the public hearing or continue 01:05:35
it. 01:05:38
I just need a motion. What would be the benefit of continuing it? Whenever we finish the first meeting in June, we'll have another 01:05:46
discussion. So let's continue the public hearing. I move to continue the public hearing. OK, To the next meeting, OK. 01:05:53
Is that so we can continue to talk more and gather data? It's so that the public can come back and speak again because we will 01:06:01
continue to talk more and the tentative budget will come back that day. The final budget won't be presented until the last, the 01:06:07
last council meeting in June. This is just allowing the public another chance after we've gathered information to come back and 01:06:13
speak. I have more on the budget, but we can. This is just the public here. 01:06:19
You just need to stay to date. 01:06:27
I think it is the 12th. 01:06:32
Thank you, Tammy. 01:06:35
Yeah. 01:06:36
I've got no Marty made a first to continue the public hearing to June 12th. Can I get a second, second. Thank you, Sarah, any 01:06:39
discussion? All in favor? Aye. All right, Council, do you have more I mean or do you have more discussion? 01:06:47
Do you wanna go first? 01:06:58
I'm waiting on you, Sir. 01:07:00
The I got your e-mail, Josh about. 01:07:03
Not breaking down the. 01:07:09
437 admin fee or admin line of like is that admin you and all the staff that take to run the RDA? Yeah and there's and there's 01:07:13
other things too. But what that is is that's actually a revenue figure, right. So say we're gonna get this much money that we can 01:07:19
spend. 01:07:26
Well, yeah, but you can set it aside for I mean, there's there's a whole host of things that are. 01:07:33
Eligible for the admin portion to cover. My issue is this has to be a budget. It can't be hey we get a slush fund of $437,000 to 01:07:39
spend and then. 01:07:44
Your salary, this salary like this isn't a budget. I know you say that I don't get to get access, like I don't get granular access 01:07:50
to that, but that's just not acceptable to me. I think. I think as an RDA council, we should be able to go and say. 01:07:58
You know, this salary, that salary, this position, it can't just be some half a million plus half $1,000,000. This is how much 01:08:06
money is coming in. And me as an RDA. 01:08:12
Like why don't, why do you have a position that we don't get to know that and have it broken down? 01:08:20
Yeah. 01:08:59
The management of the RDA is managed by your RDA director. 01:09:04
The expenses are reported to the council and the council gets, or the board in this case gets to review those expenses and then 01:09:10
weigh in with additional policy if that is needed. But that is the purpose of having a RDA director in this case, to manage the 01:09:17
budget throughout the year under the policies that that this board has set forth. 01:09:24
I think I want to clarify that there must be some confusion of what it seems like would be normal where you're asking for who you 01:09:33
would hire to a transactional log. We don't need to have that discussion today, but I think in our meetings in the next few weeks 01:09:41
as we go through this with the board, I would love to sit down and understand the difference between those requests of 01:09:48
transactional law versus overall requests of staff time and things like that. 01:09:56
So that in the next meeting, we can clearly delineate what the board is having access to so that the people can understand that 01:10:04
there's transparency and that we do know what we are voting on either for two reasons. Two, to let people know that we understand 01:10:12
the budget, we know what we're voting for, and we have control of the budget and number and number. Wait, what's 12? I'm just 01:10:20
working backwards. And then #2 so that we can clarify the difference in those things so that there's not confusion about. 01:10:28
Or misrepresentation about those discussions. So I'm going to move that conversation aside and I'm going to, I want to see a 01:10:38
meeting come forward where we can sit down and gather together and talk about that probably. 01:10:46
So if I understand right, we're going to have a discussion of if I do or do not strategically get to have a breakdown of where we 01:10:54
spend our money. 01:10:59
Where we say $5000, the department heads or managers or. 01:11:38
Purchasing agent can approve $5000 without having to come back to the council. You wanted to bring it down from what I understand, 01:11:44
back to $200.00. And So what I want to understand is, is what you're asking for a $200.00 transactional cost or is it something 01:11:51
that you should have access to? I don't feel like we need to have that discussion here tonight, but we will do that discussion so 01:11:58
that you have what you need to make sure that you. 01:12:05
Can vote on this budget properly. 01:12:13
Yeah, I think we brought forth that idea of three, five, $1000, whatever that limit is. 01:12:17
And that is how we're going to move forward with this conversation. We're moving on to the next question because we have a 01:13:31
solution for this one. Can I, can I ask Jamie a question as a government body, if we're just voting on this much revenue, 5%, 01:13:37
which is half a million and I'm just approving it. 01:13:42
And is that legal for them to not give that access to us, like to break it down? I mean, if they have three votes, they can say 01:13:49
we're not going to know about it. First of all, you're not voting on not today, the approvals today, right? But obviously, we've 01:13:55
had this argument for four months of trying to get a breakdown on it and it hasn't been coming. 01:14:02
And we're in the final 3-4 weeks, right. I don't know that that's accurate on you not getting information that relates to the 01:14:09
budget. I do think some of the conversation. 01:14:14
Conflates budget line items which are broader than expense line items when you get an expense report and so. 01:14:20
There's a few ways I would think of framing the conversation if what you want to drive at is. 01:14:31
Policy that relates to how is money spent and how, how are those approvals? 01:14:37
Made The city currently has a procurement policy that gives authority for certain dollar amount expenditures to happen at certain 01:14:42
levels. I don't have the chart in front of me, so I don't want to tell you it's 5000. 01:14:50
You know under a certain level an individual employee can obligate money. 01:14:59
And then once you go from say 5 to 10,000, then it's a different level. And then if you get to a certain point, which is 50,000 or 01:15:05
more I believe. 01:15:10
Is that right? It's 50,000. We've actually got a presentation on that very thing for today. So well then I've worked. I'm not 01:15:16
going to steal the Thunder of that presentation, but. 01:15:20
Your financial controls over how money is spent. 01:15:27
It happens in two ways. You set the budget as the policy and then you have the financial controls in place of who makes the 01:15:31
decision on the various expenditures. If you don't put a category in the budget, then nothing can be spent on that category. You 01:15:39
have to have something in the budget that reflects that. So if there were. 01:15:46
Memberships or travel or things like that that you've mentioned that you don't like, you could not fund those things and then no 01:15:55
city monies could be spent on it. But if you had a line item, say for. 01:16:02
Something and money was spent on it as long as the approvals occur within. 01:16:10
Those parameters, then it would occur. It would be really unusual for a budget to try to get as granular as what you would get 01:16:17
when you get expenses and your report on expenditures. 01:16:23
And it's really for the reasons Josh mentioned earlier that. 01:16:29
You don't know what the price is going to be 6 months down the road, so you try to estimate what that is. You put it into your 01:16:33
budget, but when it comes time to buy it, you. 01:16:38
By within. 01:16:43
Your purchasing policy, yeah, at those levels and then where the council has control over it, and this is true of every city in 01:16:45
the in the state, is you get expense reports back and you can look at those expense reports and make sure that the way the money 01:16:51
was spent comports both with your budget. 01:16:58
And with your spending authority and policies of how those decisions are made. 01:17:04
Right. But how this is presented of here's 450,000 admin, there's nothing wrapped around that. That's not unusual for an RDA 01:17:12
budget to have categories like. And because we're coming back to the same conversation, I'm going to shut it down again and I'm 01:17:19
going to say we are actually going over the policy that Jamie is referring to. So that can be another conversation you can look 01:17:27
at, but Jamie can join us for this meeting where we go and we review these things and we bring it back. 01:17:35
And that's how we're going to move forward with that. 01:17:43
If I can wrap it with one quick description, the of that admin fee there is the the cost of of our RDA director and everything 01:17:47
else gets deposited or transferred into the general fund and is expended line item by line item in your FY25 budget. That is 01:17:55
helpful, Thank you. That is relevant. Carson Walker, retired teacher is asking a quick question. Jamie mentioned that cities have 01:18:03
pro permit and purchasing rules that you guys follow policies, guidelines, whatever. 01:18:11
My understanding is Rdas are kind of quasi or pseudo governmental and they don't have to follow some, maybe some of our all of the 01:18:20
rules that a city might. So does the RDA follow the same purchasing or procurement guidelines that you mentioned that the Vineyard 01:18:25
city would follow? 01:18:31
And maybe if you guys can answer that would be great. 01:18:38
For direct expenses, so things like personnel or. 01:18:41
Or those kinds of things. Yes, it follows the same protocols that the city would use otherwise. There are a number of RDA expenses 01:18:47
that where the city doesn't do the buying. So one of the reasons already is use reimbursement is we want the developers to hold 01:18:53
the risk and also we frankly don't want to have to. 01:19:00
Burdened the community with two concurrent or with two separate construction projects. So if you had the developer build the homes 01:19:07
and then you hit pause and the city comes in and builds the roads, you disrupt the neighborhood twice. So one of the things the 01:19:14
RDA and the reimbursements allows you to do is the developer with the construction crew that it mobilizes at the outset. It does 01:19:21
all of the work together and then they submit their receipts and their expenses that relate to the public infrastructure and then 01:19:28
we review that. 01:19:34
And then it's reimbursed in that way. 01:19:42
So you eliminate having to have two mobilization expenses for the construction you eliminate having. 01:19:44
To disrupt the neighborhood twice to do that work. 01:19:51
And you can put the burden of those things on the developer, but those are not direct city purchases. And so they're not made. The 01:19:54
city's not writing a check except for the reimbursement when it comes back. 01:20:01
One of the issues and problems with that is that there's no bidding process. So however that price is set up within the RDA, it's 01:20:10
sole discretion of that developer, right? 01:20:15
You control it in the reimbursement agreements by putting a cap. So you require an estimate at the beginning. They have to get 01:20:21
bids when they submit that estimate. And then we, I say we it's really you all as the RDA board. 01:20:28
Review their application, their estimate. 01:20:35
And then the all of the reimbursement agreements that I've been a part of, we put a cap on the cities participation And so if it 01:20:38
ends up costing more. 01:20:42
The developer bears that excess cost, not the city. 01:20:47
Other questions? 01:20:52
All right, if there are no other questions. 01:20:55
I would just say that I would love to strongly advocate the council. We get to control those controls and those rules. And I don't 01:21:00
think they're to the standard that I feel comfortable with. And I would hope that we would have a majority where we could review 01:21:08
those and get clarity. I I don't like that even on the. 01:21:16
A notice that went out that it's just very high level, you know, half a million. I don't think that because then it, it doesn't 01:21:25
allow us to get as granular and educated citizens coming in. 01:21:31
Especially 24 hours. So we keep talking about these government processes that are just very quick and easy because we're talking 01:21:38
millions of dollars. 01:21:42
In in massive projects for 24 hours notice taking money from education. 01:21:47
So it's like, is this worth it over funding our schools? 01:21:54
You know, I don't know. So I go back to process and I know we keep voting on that, but. 01:21:58
So you said, Jamie, the board is supposed to review the bids that come in and we're all part of that board, the entire City 01:22:06
Council. So by, by statute, the RDA board for each redevelopment agency is constituted by the City Council. The mayor becomes the 01:22:12
chair of the RDA board and then the council members are the members of the RDA board. And I, I, I said, well, never mind, I'll 01:22:19
hold that. 01:22:25
Apparently we need to have more meetings. 01:22:33
OK. I believe we've already set a date and a continuance, so I just need a motion to adjourn this meeting. 01:22:35
Actually, I'm just gonna have your name. 01:22:44
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