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Are you rolling? | 00:00:02 | |
All right, today is August 7th, 2024. The time is 4:46. We're going to go ahead and start our special session for City Council. | 00:00:05 | |
We're going to start with an invocation in the Pledge of Allegiance. I'll go ahead and do that and we'll start with a prayer | 00:00:10 | |
first. What kind? Heavenly Father, we're so grateful for this day. We're so grateful for the ability to meet together and talk | 00:00:16 | |
about things that will eventually lead our city in a good path moving forward for generations to come. And we pray that we can be | 00:00:22 | |
thoughtful and. | 00:00:27 | |
Wise about these decisions and we pray that we'll be able to listen with humility and hear. | 00:00:34 | |
The public and where we feel by spirit and I'm just questioning all rise. | 00:00:42 | |
Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. | 00:00:49 | |
And to which it stands one nation under our under this whole with leveraging the impact of trial. | 00:00:53 | |
All right. This meeting is a public hearing to consider a change in government. I'm going to let our attorney, Jamie Blakesley | 00:01:03 | |
give a briefing on this and then we'll go ahead and open the public hearing for comment. Thank you, Mayor. We've had presentations | 00:01:11 | |
on this and discussion about this, so I'm not going to belabor what it is or why it's occurring. But I did want to just talk a | 00:01:18 | |
little bit about process and where we find ourselves because. | 00:01:26 | |
The dates that have to occur in state law, they don't always have logical coherence. And so there's some things happen. There's a | 00:01:33 | |
hearing on this today. And there remains an opportunity for the City Council to reverse course if it hears things and understands | 00:01:41 | |
things that make it want to want to move a different direction. But there are election law time frames that require the city to | 00:01:48 | |
begin acting as if this is going to be on the ballot. And so I just wanted to make clear for the public that. | 00:01:55 | |
Earlier today I noticed one out that was an invitation to for any eligible voter to request to write a for or against statement | 00:02:03 | |
for the ballot proposition. That's part of the process the county leads. That is to create the ballot and then create the voter | 00:02:12 | |
information pamphlets that will go out to voters in the county. That time frame doesn't sync up exactly with the time frame for. | 00:02:21 | |
This hearing and these things. And so I just didn't want anybody to be confused that by publishing that notice. | 00:02:31 | |
The decision was. | 00:02:37 | |
Predetermined and that the comments would not be heard and considered. We can still call things back, but we have to meet the time | 00:02:40 | |
frames within the election code. | 00:02:44 | |
Excellent. Thank you. OK. I'm going to ask for motion to open the public hearing, so moved first by Amber. | 00:02:50 | |
Second. Second by Marty. All in favor, aye. | 00:02:58 | |
OK. And Sarah is absent? | 00:03:04 | |
All right, this opens this up for anybody in the audience that would like to come and make a comment on the change of government. | 00:03:06 | |
Please come on up and share your comments with us. | 00:03:13 | |
Hello. | 00:03:31 | |
OK, my name is Daria Evans. I'm a Vineyard resident and I am coming as a concerned citizen. | 00:03:35 | |
And I'm asking the Council to reconsider the proposal to change the form of government from A5 member to six member council. | 00:03:41 | |
Do you remember the adage use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without? Well, I'm standing here today as living that | 00:03:50 | |
principle. I'm wearing a dress for Myer and Frank. I don't know if any of you are old enough to remember Meyer and Frank. | 00:03:57 | |
This dress was over 20 years old. I'm making it do and I'm going to wear it out. And I want us to live by this last part of that | 00:04:06 | |
little adage. I think we can do without this time. I think we can do without this change for now. And I believe that we can wait | 00:04:14 | |
until we have more revenue coming in to be able to pay for the upcoming ballot and the council member's salary, and we may even | 00:04:21 | |
decide to go to a different form of government. | 00:04:28 | |
That's my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you, darling. | 00:04:37 | |
Should we just raise our hand if we agree with that, or should we see? | 00:04:48 | |
You can come up if you would like to. | 00:04:52 | |
And you can also raise your hand, yeah, but come on up if you want to say something. | 00:04:54 | |
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident I love what Daria had to say and I 2nd that. I think that perhaps now is not the time, and | 00:05:06 | |
maybe it is a process that needs more time, more research, and more input from a larger group in the community. I'm just curious, | 00:05:12 | |
why are we at 4:45? | 00:05:19 | |
That was that was just kind of a, a puzzling thing to me that we had moved it to this time and I think we may have had more | 00:05:26 | |
people. | 00:05:30 | |
Had it been at a more an easier time for people to come? Thanks. | 00:05:34 | |
Thanks. | 00:05:47 | |
I. | 00:05:48 | |
Hi, David Loray resident. | 00:05:57 | |
I agree with the last two speakers for all reasons they stated. It seems to me that there's not much gain. | 00:06:01 | |
It's not what's not worth the effort right now. I think the expense to go forward that. | 00:06:12 | |
Adding another counselor and I don't know, we get much benefit. We do this, we change an awful lot about the way government | 00:06:18 | |
operates. And in fact, it is not clear that the benefits we think we would get, we would get because I think the. | 00:06:24 | |
We have put in place a number of ordinances over the last 6-8 months that would actually prevent many of the benefits we think we | 00:06:31 | |
would get from from taking place. And so unless those benefits were repealed specifically, I don't see that we would get any, any | 00:06:39 | |
benefit from it. So I'm not, I'm not in favor of spending more money when we don't get anything for it to my point. Thanks. | 00:06:47 | |
Let's come up now some time. | 00:07:06 | |
Yeah, please. | 00:07:11 | |
David Pierce I'm a resident of Vineyard. | 00:07:14 | |
And. | 00:07:18 | |
Whether or not. | 00:07:20 | |
We maintain the same structure of government that we have now or whether or not we change it. | 00:07:23 | |
Ought to be a citizen's decision. | 00:07:32 | |
I hear a lot of comments from the podium here about giving giving citizens the choice. This is a perfect example of giving the | 00:07:36 | |
citizens a choice in what kind of government they want and how they want it to function structurally. | 00:07:45 | |
And. | 00:07:55 | |
With respect. | 00:07:59 | |
I think that it's always worth the effort to try and improve. | 00:08:01 | |
Our city government. | 00:08:07 | |
Government at any level. | 00:08:09 | |
I believe. | 00:08:13 | |
In the proposed form of government. | 00:08:15 | |
I think also. | 00:08:19 | |
That the current form of government is not bad. | 00:08:21 | |
But I believe the people should be given a choice. | 00:08:27 | |
Let them decide. Let us decide which way we want our city to go. | 00:08:32 | |
Having. | 00:08:42 | |
Having. | 00:08:48 | |
The attitude that. | 00:08:50 | |
Doesn't matter. | 00:08:54 | |
It's kind of scary to me. | 00:08:57 | |
Because I think it does matter. | 00:08:59 | |
It matters that we have a choice. It matters that we have the opportunity to select the best form of government this city needs, | 00:09:03 | |
this city deserves, from now into the future. | 00:09:11 | |
Thank you. Thank you. | 00:09:21 | |
Tim Blackburn, Vineyard resident. | 00:09:29 | |
I agree with everything's been said, I'm just not sure they're going to a six person council is the best. I think we should have | 00:09:32 | |
the best in this city of this growing. | 00:09:37 | |
The Five Council forum has worked more or less over the years that we've grown, and maybe we've grown beyond what that provided | 00:09:42 | |
for many years, but I'm not sure that only having the two choices is right at this point. I believe that we need to just put it on | 00:09:51 | |
hold and really study the situation out for a growing community. | 00:09:59 | |
It needs to be a form of government that is of the people, by the people and for the people. | 00:10:10 | |
I think somebody famous said that. | 00:10:16 | |
In the 1860s, and that's the kind of government that we really need, is where our citizens are heard. I agree with the idea that | 00:10:18 | |
citizens need to be heard. | 00:10:23 | |
But I'm not sure that these are the only choices that we should have before us before we move forward. So I would agree that now | 00:10:30 | |
is not the time to decide on a, a six person, put it on the ballot for a six person council or not. There should be probably other | 00:10:38 | |
deliberations and thinking of this going on for a while. Thank you very much. | 00:10:46 | |
Alright, Jamie, my question is, now that we've heard from everybody in the audience, almost. | 00:11:08 | |
Can I close out of the public hearing and then are we, we're not able to comment or answer any questions on that, right. Can you | 00:11:16 | |
give us the protocol after that? Sure. Once the hearings closed, you're able to to speak about the matter. It is on your agenda | 00:11:23 | |
there. There's not an action item on the agenda today so that the council can't act on anything. | 00:11:30 | |
You have until a little bit later this month to. | 00:11:37 | |
Change course if you wish to on the matter, but you would have to either do it on your next regularly scheduled meeting or call a | 00:11:40 | |
special session to do it. Pam is the date the 25th. | 00:11:46 | |
I can tell you. | 00:12:00 | |
That's OK. | 00:12:03 | |
OK, we'll go ahead and go out of the public hearing. Is this my 5th? Thank you. | 00:12:04 | |
All right. I need a motion to go out of the public hearing, so moved. Thank you. Amber, can I get a second? | 00:12:09 | |
Second, was that Sarah? OK. Second by Sarah. All in favor. Aye. All right. | 00:12:16 | |
Council, did you want to make final comments or have a discussion? | 00:12:26 | |
OK please I can. | 00:12:37 | |
I don't like the idea of raising taxes and growing the size of government, especially with. | 00:12:40 | |
We have the power amongst 3 votes right now currently on our City Council in a down economy. | 00:12:46 | |
Where we are have a proposed tax increase, I don't remember the exact numbers of putting it onto the. | 00:12:54 | |
Vote under the budget or the extra seat of 20,000 annually. | 00:13:03 | |
And in reviewing all the authority the mayor still has over the agenda and over the budget and we are in a both all of us being in | 00:13:10 | |
a legislative and all of us being in an executive role. And so I I would lean against it about that decision isn't being made | 00:13:18 | |
today. | 00:13:26 | |
But yeah. | 00:13:37 | |
I think I think there would need to be a consensus and more teaching. I just don't think it's the right time right now in this | 00:13:40 | |
economy. | 00:13:45 | |
OK, that's good. Well, I appreciate everyone coming out and sharing their opinions and I hope they will continue to do so and that | 00:13:51 | |
we hear from more people. I know this is a very big issue we're looking at and there are meaningful ramifications. So just | 00:13:56 | |
continue sharing your feedback. | 00:14:01 | |
So I didn't, I didn't realize we Vineyard Cities only had three mayors up to this point. | 00:14:10 | |
So we're so new in our organized government. | 00:14:15 | |
I talked to Chris Karn from Saratoga Springs today and there's quite a few cities that use the six, the 6th council form and | 00:14:21 | |
they've all said that they feel like it functions really well. The problems that some of the problems we've had with our 5 member. | 00:14:28 | |
Sorry, I just have to run my grandbaby home. | 00:14:35 | |
Is that we can't meet more than two of us together and so it's hard to collaborate. I feel like it would. | 00:14:44 | |
Be a big benefit if we could meet with three of us together, right? That's what happened. So so there's that Plus I feel like the | 00:14:53 | |
the mayor council forum. | 00:14:58 | |
From what I've heard, seems to bring more contention. | 00:15:05 | |
So I just, I want us to really think about it because there's a lot of cities just slightly bigger than ours. We're only four and | 00:15:09 | |
a half square miles. We're not going to get bigger than that. And and there's cities that are our size and a little bit bigger | 00:15:17 | |
that use the six member and they all seem to really agree that it functioned well. So I think if we take into account people who | 00:15:24 | |
were where we are and now are bigger and they still think that that one functions well for them. | 00:15:31 | |
It might be good for us to pay attention so. | 00:15:39 | |
That's all I have on there. | 00:15:43 | |
I, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm in agreement with Sarah on this one. | 00:15:45 | |
I think that we've been handicapped by only being able to meet with one council and the mayor at a time. 1 council member. I think | 00:15:52 | |
that there's a lot of frustration that's been expressed over the past, specifically the past seven months. | 00:16:01 | |
Where if we change this form of government, we'd be able to have two council members and the mayor meeting regularly to understand | 00:16:11 | |
policy better. | 00:16:14 | |
To prepare for meetings to discuss and hear it all at the same time. I also believe that having been having a better separation | 00:16:19 | |
between our legislative and executive body where the mayor would only have a vote where her powers and duties were applied and | 00:16:27 | |
voting in a tie break, I think sounds appropriate. I know there's some controversy with some legislation that we have in in | 00:16:34 | |
current in our current. | 00:16:41 | |
But. | 00:16:49 | |
I believe that as we move forward as a city, as we grow, as we develop that looking for a form that most of the city's surrounding | 00:16:52 | |
us with the exclusion of forum and Spanish work, they have a council manager form which is no longer available as an option. With | 00:16:59 | |
the council mayor form, I was able to find 8 cities in the entire state that have that form in which the majority have | 00:17:07 | |
populations. | 00:17:14 | |
Of their higher populations, key cities that I was able to find for Provo, Sandy, West Jordan, Ogden, Salt Lake City, and then | 00:17:22 | |
Logan and Murray were a little smaller. And then there was a city called Marriott Slaterville. | 00:17:29 | |
I could be wrong. | 00:17:39 | |
Is that what you got? | 00:17:41 | |
I've spoken with City Council members from other cities specifically that also said that they feel that the six member form of | 00:17:44 | |
government is a basic standard form of government that they believe functions in the best capacity. | 00:17:51 | |
I won't redo the cities. There are a lot of cities that use that form and I had a lot of conversation. Well, I don't exaggerate. I | 00:18:01 | |
think I had a few conversations. | 00:18:05 | |
I'm proposing this to put on the ballot and let the let our community decide. And if I'm wrong, then we'll find out in November. | 00:18:12 | |
And I believe that this would, I believe that this would substantially improve how we function and I. | 00:18:20 | |
I'm glad that we have this time to hear each other out over the next few months until this comes to the November ballot. | 00:18:31 | |
I just wanted a clarification because I think it's really important that all of us understand that. | 00:18:40 | |
What's happened over the past and obviously it's in my opinion of the past two to three years as the six member form obviously | 00:18:46 | |
will increase our tax burden about what we make 20,000 a year. | 00:18:51 | |
And I think the worst part of the six number form is the. | 00:18:59 | |
This wouldn't take into effect until the end of this term, right? And so we're going to 2026 and then when it does. | 00:19:04 | |
It doesn't change. I mean we literally have the same authority and power as a 5 as a six. Except for when I looked in state code. | 00:19:14 | |
Jamie, when you said that the mayor votes on certain things and on certain issues, it's actually not delineated anywhere in state | 00:19:24 | |
code of what she does or doesn't, though. It's more up to the opinion of the mayor of what things it's under her purview or not, | 00:19:28 | |
right? | 00:19:33 | |
No, that's not accurate. So state code talks about basically 3 categories of things that the mayor would vote on. | 00:19:39 | |
The mayor votes on the appointment of your city manager. The mayor votes to break the tie if you have a tie among the members of | 00:19:46 | |
the City Council that are present at a meeting. So if you had a meeting with four present and A22 vote, the mayor would break that | 00:19:54 | |
tie and then the mayor by right votes on any ordinance change that. | 00:20:02 | |
Affects her powers and obligations, basically her function within the city. | 00:20:11 | |
And if there's an ordinance that would affect those issues, then she would vote as a voting member of the council. On all other | 00:20:18 | |
council decisions, the mayor and the six member council form of government would not vote. So on budget questions, would not vote | 00:20:26 | |
on routine resolutions, contract approvals, those kinds of things, would not vote on any kind of ordinance that you would pass | 00:20:33 | |
that affects anything other than the mayor's rules. | 00:20:40 | |
Responsibilities would not vote and so the function does become a lot different the mayor role in that form of government becomes | 00:20:48 | |
one of executive functions within the city, ceremonial functions within the city and then as the chair of the council, the mayor | 00:20:56 | |
becomes the individual that. | 00:21:04 | |
Tries to coordinate them on the council members to determine what city council's business should be. | 00:21:13 | |
To try to work and find consensus on matters, knowing that as as she works to develop consensus in that form of government, she's | 00:21:19 | |
not a voting member of that consensus. So it's trying to drive toward solutions and problem solving. So in my experience with six | 00:21:27 | |
member councils, and I have several clients that operate in that form, that those are the shifts you see in in how the mayor | 00:21:34 | |
operates. But by law, they only vote on those 3. | 00:21:41 | |
You mentioned that we're all over the legislative authority and are over executive authority. We hold those roles together. What | 00:21:52 | |
what does he mean by that? | 00:21:56 | |
In the five member form, we all have 1/5 executive all right in our in our current form of government. | 00:22:01 | |
Oh, it doesn't take three to do to accomplish something. | 00:22:08 | |
There, it may be worth dusting off portions of the presentation I gave a little bit ago, but I'll summarize it under all three | 00:22:13 | |
forms of government available in the cities in Utah. So 5 member councils, 6 member council and council mayor. | 00:22:20 | |
The mayor is the chief executive of the city. There within the five and six member council form of government, there is some | 00:22:29 | |
determination by the City Council. What are the executive functions and the administrative functions that are given to the mayor | 00:22:36 | |
and what are the functions that are given to a city manager or retained by the City Council to to make decisions on. So an example | 00:22:43 | |
of that and kind of routine city business is. | 00:22:51 | |
You can establish spending authority and spending limits and you can draw those thresholds wherever you would like them to be. | 00:22:59 | |
You, you're not restricted by law and what they are or on what those processes may be. And so different cities have them in | 00:23:06 | |
different places. Larger cities that have to make a lot of larger expenditures may not want to burden the council with those | 00:23:14 | |
decisions. Smaller cities that have more limited budgets may want more of those decisions to come to the City Council and so. | 00:23:21 | |
You within your code can determine where you want to draw those lines. What you can't change in your code is that the mayor is the | 00:23:29 | |
chief executive officer and that all employees report through that chain of command and that certain executive functions and | 00:23:35 | |
appointment functions that the mayor holds, that the mayor holds regardless of your form of government. And so those things | 00:23:41 | |
wouldn't change, but. | 00:23:46 | |
Your your ordinances under. Within that framework you you can decide where to stack them and where to put them. | 00:23:54 | |
Your biggest difference five and five member council, 6 member council is whether the mayor is a voting member of the council on | 00:24:01 | |
routine business of the City Council. | 00:24:06 | |
Is that I would have a vote as a legislative part of a legislative presently and on the 6th it would be limited and then the mayor | 00:24:13 | |
council form there would be a veto. | 00:24:19 | |
You mentioned a tax increase for the six member. You had also mentioned the mayor council form that would be a higher tax | 00:24:26 | |
increase. What were your thoughts on that? Are you leaning towards staying with the five member? Yeah. I just think at this time | 00:24:34 | |
without a consensus across that it's it's we have more important things to focus in on the city, especially with our proposed tax | 00:24:41 | |
rate increase. I just don't think it's. | 00:24:48 | |
You know, in looking at it, it was to solve the problems of the past and I don't see the jurisdictional changes to that change | 00:24:56 | |
this. I think that. | 00:25:01 | |
Just without having to mention all of them it it there's more aggressive one that removes and makes it very delineated legislative | 00:25:08 | |
and executive. And if the council is open to doing that I would have gone to that. I I think I'm not close the door on if. | 00:25:16 | |
You know, both of the governments would have increased costs other than mayor or council form of government and. | 00:25:26 | |
At this time with with the proposed tax rate increase, I just go with three people. We have the votes to be able to do what we | 00:25:35 | |
need to do. | 00:25:38 | |
And if if US 5 can't get it done, I don't think getting a six person to bury the burden solves it. | 00:25:43 | |
And I think it is, I think the six member is a better form of government. I think we're probably three to five years out on | 00:25:52 | |
getting to that. And I think proposing it to just increase the cost right now is not the right timing. But I, I do agree with | 00:25:59 | |
Sarah and Marty that in the future it is, it is a better form and it gets there, but. | 00:26:06 | |
You know, we just got out of a budget meeting where we're. | 00:26:14 | |
Don't have any money for anything, so I just go another City Council member. I don't see that as a needed cost. | 00:26:17 | |
Just financially OK. Any closing comments from the Council? | 00:26:23 | |
OK, if not I am going to. | 00:26:30 | |
I joined this meeting. We're now adjourned. Thank you for coming. | 00:26:34 |
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Are you rolling? | 00:00:02 | |
All right, today is August 7th, 2024. The time is 4:46. We're going to go ahead and start our special session for City Council. | 00:00:05 | |
We're going to start with an invocation in the Pledge of Allegiance. I'll go ahead and do that and we'll start with a prayer | 00:00:10 | |
first. What kind? Heavenly Father, we're so grateful for this day. We're so grateful for the ability to meet together and talk | 00:00:16 | |
about things that will eventually lead our city in a good path moving forward for generations to come. And we pray that we can be | 00:00:22 | |
thoughtful and. | 00:00:27 | |
Wise about these decisions and we pray that we'll be able to listen with humility and hear. | 00:00:34 | |
The public and where we feel by spirit and I'm just questioning all rise. | 00:00:42 | |
Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. | 00:00:49 | |
And to which it stands one nation under our under this whole with leveraging the impact of trial. | 00:00:53 | |
All right. This meeting is a public hearing to consider a change in government. I'm going to let our attorney, Jamie Blakesley | 00:01:03 | |
give a briefing on this and then we'll go ahead and open the public hearing for comment. Thank you, Mayor. We've had presentations | 00:01:11 | |
on this and discussion about this, so I'm not going to belabor what it is or why it's occurring. But I did want to just talk a | 00:01:18 | |
little bit about process and where we find ourselves because. | 00:01:26 | |
The dates that have to occur in state law, they don't always have logical coherence. And so there's some things happen. There's a | 00:01:33 | |
hearing on this today. And there remains an opportunity for the City Council to reverse course if it hears things and understands | 00:01:41 | |
things that make it want to want to move a different direction. But there are election law time frames that require the city to | 00:01:48 | |
begin acting as if this is going to be on the ballot. And so I just wanted to make clear for the public that. | 00:01:55 | |
Earlier today I noticed one out that was an invitation to for any eligible voter to request to write a for or against statement | 00:02:03 | |
for the ballot proposition. That's part of the process the county leads. That is to create the ballot and then create the voter | 00:02:12 | |
information pamphlets that will go out to voters in the county. That time frame doesn't sync up exactly with the time frame for. | 00:02:21 | |
This hearing and these things. And so I just didn't want anybody to be confused that by publishing that notice. | 00:02:31 | |
The decision was. | 00:02:37 | |
Predetermined and that the comments would not be heard and considered. We can still call things back, but we have to meet the time | 00:02:40 | |
frames within the election code. | 00:02:44 | |
Excellent. Thank you. OK. I'm going to ask for motion to open the public hearing, so moved first by Amber. | 00:02:50 | |
Second. Second by Marty. All in favor, aye. | 00:02:58 | |
OK. And Sarah is absent? | 00:03:04 | |
All right, this opens this up for anybody in the audience that would like to come and make a comment on the change of government. | 00:03:06 | |
Please come on up and share your comments with us. | 00:03:13 | |
Hello. | 00:03:31 | |
OK, my name is Daria Evans. I'm a Vineyard resident and I am coming as a concerned citizen. | 00:03:35 | |
And I'm asking the Council to reconsider the proposal to change the form of government from A5 member to six member council. | 00:03:41 | |
Do you remember the adage use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without? Well, I'm standing here today as living that | 00:03:50 | |
principle. I'm wearing a dress for Myer and Frank. I don't know if any of you are old enough to remember Meyer and Frank. | 00:03:57 | |
This dress was over 20 years old. I'm making it do and I'm going to wear it out. And I want us to live by this last part of that | 00:04:06 | |
little adage. I think we can do without this time. I think we can do without this change for now. And I believe that we can wait | 00:04:14 | |
until we have more revenue coming in to be able to pay for the upcoming ballot and the council member's salary, and we may even | 00:04:21 | |
decide to go to a different form of government. | 00:04:28 | |
That's my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you, darling. | 00:04:37 | |
Should we just raise our hand if we agree with that, or should we see? | 00:04:48 | |
You can come up if you would like to. | 00:04:52 | |
And you can also raise your hand, yeah, but come on up if you want to say something. | 00:04:54 | |
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident I love what Daria had to say and I 2nd that. I think that perhaps now is not the time, and | 00:05:06 | |
maybe it is a process that needs more time, more research, and more input from a larger group in the community. I'm just curious, | 00:05:12 | |
why are we at 4:45? | 00:05:19 | |
That was that was just kind of a, a puzzling thing to me that we had moved it to this time and I think we may have had more | 00:05:26 | |
people. | 00:05:30 | |
Had it been at a more an easier time for people to come? Thanks. | 00:05:34 | |
Thanks. | 00:05:47 | |
I. | 00:05:48 | |
Hi, David Loray resident. | 00:05:57 | |
I agree with the last two speakers for all reasons they stated. It seems to me that there's not much gain. | 00:06:01 | |
It's not what's not worth the effort right now. I think the expense to go forward that. | 00:06:12 | |
Adding another counselor and I don't know, we get much benefit. We do this, we change an awful lot about the way government | 00:06:18 | |
operates. And in fact, it is not clear that the benefits we think we would get, we would get because I think the. | 00:06:24 | |
We have put in place a number of ordinances over the last 6-8 months that would actually prevent many of the benefits we think we | 00:06:31 | |
would get from from taking place. And so unless those benefits were repealed specifically, I don't see that we would get any, any | 00:06:39 | |
benefit from it. So I'm not, I'm not in favor of spending more money when we don't get anything for it to my point. Thanks. | 00:06:47 | |
Let's come up now some time. | 00:07:06 | |
Yeah, please. | 00:07:11 | |
David Pierce I'm a resident of Vineyard. | 00:07:14 | |
And. | 00:07:18 | |
Whether or not. | 00:07:20 | |
We maintain the same structure of government that we have now or whether or not we change it. | 00:07:23 | |
Ought to be a citizen's decision. | 00:07:32 | |
I hear a lot of comments from the podium here about giving giving citizens the choice. This is a perfect example of giving the | 00:07:36 | |
citizens a choice in what kind of government they want and how they want it to function structurally. | 00:07:45 | |
And. | 00:07:55 | |
With respect. | 00:07:59 | |
I think that it's always worth the effort to try and improve. | 00:08:01 | |
Our city government. | 00:08:07 | |
Government at any level. | 00:08:09 | |
I believe. | 00:08:13 | |
In the proposed form of government. | 00:08:15 | |
I think also. | 00:08:19 | |
That the current form of government is not bad. | 00:08:21 | |
But I believe the people should be given a choice. | 00:08:27 | |
Let them decide. Let us decide which way we want our city to go. | 00:08:32 | |
Having. | 00:08:42 | |
Having. | 00:08:48 | |
The attitude that. | 00:08:50 | |
Doesn't matter. | 00:08:54 | |
It's kind of scary to me. | 00:08:57 | |
Because I think it does matter. | 00:08:59 | |
It matters that we have a choice. It matters that we have the opportunity to select the best form of government this city needs, | 00:09:03 | |
this city deserves, from now into the future. | 00:09:11 | |
Thank you. Thank you. | 00:09:21 | |
Tim Blackburn, Vineyard resident. | 00:09:29 | |
I agree with everything's been said, I'm just not sure they're going to a six person council is the best. I think we should have | 00:09:32 | |
the best in this city of this growing. | 00:09:37 | |
The Five Council forum has worked more or less over the years that we've grown, and maybe we've grown beyond what that provided | 00:09:42 | |
for many years, but I'm not sure that only having the two choices is right at this point. I believe that we need to just put it on | 00:09:51 | |
hold and really study the situation out for a growing community. | 00:09:59 | |
It needs to be a form of government that is of the people, by the people and for the people. | 00:10:10 | |
I think somebody famous said that. | 00:10:16 | |
In the 1860s, and that's the kind of government that we really need, is where our citizens are heard. I agree with the idea that | 00:10:18 | |
citizens need to be heard. | 00:10:23 | |
But I'm not sure that these are the only choices that we should have before us before we move forward. So I would agree that now | 00:10:30 | |
is not the time to decide on a, a six person, put it on the ballot for a six person council or not. There should be probably other | 00:10:38 | |
deliberations and thinking of this going on for a while. Thank you very much. | 00:10:46 | |
Alright, Jamie, my question is, now that we've heard from everybody in the audience, almost. | 00:11:08 | |
Can I close out of the public hearing and then are we, we're not able to comment or answer any questions on that, right. Can you | 00:11:16 | |
give us the protocol after that? Sure. Once the hearings closed, you're able to to speak about the matter. It is on your agenda | 00:11:23 | |
there. There's not an action item on the agenda today so that the council can't act on anything. | 00:11:30 | |
You have until a little bit later this month to. | 00:11:37 | |
Change course if you wish to on the matter, but you would have to either do it on your next regularly scheduled meeting or call a | 00:11:40 | |
special session to do it. Pam is the date the 25th. | 00:11:46 | |
I can tell you. | 00:12:00 | |
That's OK. | 00:12:03 | |
OK, we'll go ahead and go out of the public hearing. Is this my 5th? Thank you. | 00:12:04 | |
All right. I need a motion to go out of the public hearing, so moved. Thank you. Amber, can I get a second? | 00:12:09 | |
Second, was that Sarah? OK. Second by Sarah. All in favor. Aye. All right. | 00:12:16 | |
Council, did you want to make final comments or have a discussion? | 00:12:26 | |
OK please I can. | 00:12:37 | |
I don't like the idea of raising taxes and growing the size of government, especially with. | 00:12:40 | |
We have the power amongst 3 votes right now currently on our City Council in a down economy. | 00:12:46 | |
Where we are have a proposed tax increase, I don't remember the exact numbers of putting it onto the. | 00:12:54 | |
Vote under the budget or the extra seat of 20,000 annually. | 00:13:03 | |
And in reviewing all the authority the mayor still has over the agenda and over the budget and we are in a both all of us being in | 00:13:10 | |
a legislative and all of us being in an executive role. And so I I would lean against it about that decision isn't being made | 00:13:18 | |
today. | 00:13:26 | |
But yeah. | 00:13:37 | |
I think I think there would need to be a consensus and more teaching. I just don't think it's the right time right now in this | 00:13:40 | |
economy. | 00:13:45 | |
OK, that's good. Well, I appreciate everyone coming out and sharing their opinions and I hope they will continue to do so and that | 00:13:51 | |
we hear from more people. I know this is a very big issue we're looking at and there are meaningful ramifications. So just | 00:13:56 | |
continue sharing your feedback. | 00:14:01 | |
So I didn't, I didn't realize we Vineyard Cities only had three mayors up to this point. | 00:14:10 | |
So we're so new in our organized government. | 00:14:15 | |
I talked to Chris Karn from Saratoga Springs today and there's quite a few cities that use the six, the 6th council form and | 00:14:21 | |
they've all said that they feel like it functions really well. The problems that some of the problems we've had with our 5 member. | 00:14:28 | |
Sorry, I just have to run my grandbaby home. | 00:14:35 | |
Is that we can't meet more than two of us together and so it's hard to collaborate. I feel like it would. | 00:14:44 | |
Be a big benefit if we could meet with three of us together, right? That's what happened. So so there's that Plus I feel like the | 00:14:53 | |
the mayor council forum. | 00:14:58 | |
From what I've heard, seems to bring more contention. | 00:15:05 | |
So I just, I want us to really think about it because there's a lot of cities just slightly bigger than ours. We're only four and | 00:15:09 | |
a half square miles. We're not going to get bigger than that. And and there's cities that are our size and a little bit bigger | 00:15:17 | |
that use the six member and they all seem to really agree that it functioned well. So I think if we take into account people who | 00:15:24 | |
were where we are and now are bigger and they still think that that one functions well for them. | 00:15:31 | |
It might be good for us to pay attention so. | 00:15:39 | |
That's all I have on there. | 00:15:43 | |
I, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm in agreement with Sarah on this one. | 00:15:45 | |
I think that we've been handicapped by only being able to meet with one council and the mayor at a time. 1 council member. I think | 00:15:52 | |
that there's a lot of frustration that's been expressed over the past, specifically the past seven months. | 00:16:01 | |
Where if we change this form of government, we'd be able to have two council members and the mayor meeting regularly to understand | 00:16:11 | |
policy better. | 00:16:14 | |
To prepare for meetings to discuss and hear it all at the same time. I also believe that having been having a better separation | 00:16:19 | |
between our legislative and executive body where the mayor would only have a vote where her powers and duties were applied and | 00:16:27 | |
voting in a tie break, I think sounds appropriate. I know there's some controversy with some legislation that we have in in | 00:16:34 | |
current in our current. | 00:16:41 | |
But. | 00:16:49 | |
I believe that as we move forward as a city, as we grow, as we develop that looking for a form that most of the city's surrounding | 00:16:52 | |
us with the exclusion of forum and Spanish work, they have a council manager form which is no longer available as an option. With | 00:16:59 | |
the council mayor form, I was able to find 8 cities in the entire state that have that form in which the majority have | 00:17:07 | |
populations. | 00:17:14 | |
Of their higher populations, key cities that I was able to find for Provo, Sandy, West Jordan, Ogden, Salt Lake City, and then | 00:17:22 | |
Logan and Murray were a little smaller. And then there was a city called Marriott Slaterville. | 00:17:29 | |
I could be wrong. | 00:17:39 | |
Is that what you got? | 00:17:41 | |
I've spoken with City Council members from other cities specifically that also said that they feel that the six member form of | 00:17:44 | |
government is a basic standard form of government that they believe functions in the best capacity. | 00:17:51 | |
I won't redo the cities. There are a lot of cities that use that form and I had a lot of conversation. Well, I don't exaggerate. I | 00:18:01 | |
think I had a few conversations. | 00:18:05 | |
I'm proposing this to put on the ballot and let the let our community decide. And if I'm wrong, then we'll find out in November. | 00:18:12 | |
And I believe that this would, I believe that this would substantially improve how we function and I. | 00:18:20 | |
I'm glad that we have this time to hear each other out over the next few months until this comes to the November ballot. | 00:18:31 | |
I just wanted a clarification because I think it's really important that all of us understand that. | 00:18:40 | |
What's happened over the past and obviously it's in my opinion of the past two to three years as the six member form obviously | 00:18:46 | |
will increase our tax burden about what we make 20,000 a year. | 00:18:51 | |
And I think the worst part of the six number form is the. | 00:18:59 | |
This wouldn't take into effect until the end of this term, right? And so we're going to 2026 and then when it does. | 00:19:04 | |
It doesn't change. I mean we literally have the same authority and power as a 5 as a six. Except for when I looked in state code. | 00:19:14 | |
Jamie, when you said that the mayor votes on certain things and on certain issues, it's actually not delineated anywhere in state | 00:19:24 | |
code of what she does or doesn't, though. It's more up to the opinion of the mayor of what things it's under her purview or not, | 00:19:28 | |
right? | 00:19:33 | |
No, that's not accurate. So state code talks about basically 3 categories of things that the mayor would vote on. | 00:19:39 | |
The mayor votes on the appointment of your city manager. The mayor votes to break the tie if you have a tie among the members of | 00:19:46 | |
the City Council that are present at a meeting. So if you had a meeting with four present and A22 vote, the mayor would break that | 00:19:54 | |
tie and then the mayor by right votes on any ordinance change that. | 00:20:02 | |
Affects her powers and obligations, basically her function within the city. | 00:20:11 | |
And if there's an ordinance that would affect those issues, then she would vote as a voting member of the council. On all other | 00:20:18 | |
council decisions, the mayor and the six member council form of government would not vote. So on budget questions, would not vote | 00:20:26 | |
on routine resolutions, contract approvals, those kinds of things, would not vote on any kind of ordinance that you would pass | 00:20:33 | |
that affects anything other than the mayor's rules. | 00:20:40 | |
Responsibilities would not vote and so the function does become a lot different the mayor role in that form of government becomes | 00:20:48 | |
one of executive functions within the city, ceremonial functions within the city and then as the chair of the council, the mayor | 00:20:56 | |
becomes the individual that. | 00:21:04 | |
Tries to coordinate them on the council members to determine what city council's business should be. | 00:21:13 | |
To try to work and find consensus on matters, knowing that as as she works to develop consensus in that form of government, she's | 00:21:19 | |
not a voting member of that consensus. So it's trying to drive toward solutions and problem solving. So in my experience with six | 00:21:27 | |
member councils, and I have several clients that operate in that form, that those are the shifts you see in in how the mayor | 00:21:34 | |
operates. But by law, they only vote on those 3. | 00:21:41 | |
You mentioned that we're all over the legislative authority and are over executive authority. We hold those roles together. What | 00:21:52 | |
what does he mean by that? | 00:21:56 | |
In the five member form, we all have 1/5 executive all right in our in our current form of government. | 00:22:01 | |
Oh, it doesn't take three to do to accomplish something. | 00:22:08 | |
There, it may be worth dusting off portions of the presentation I gave a little bit ago, but I'll summarize it under all three | 00:22:13 | |
forms of government available in the cities in Utah. So 5 member councils, 6 member council and council mayor. | 00:22:20 | |
The mayor is the chief executive of the city. There within the five and six member council form of government, there is some | 00:22:29 | |
determination by the City Council. What are the executive functions and the administrative functions that are given to the mayor | 00:22:36 | |
and what are the functions that are given to a city manager or retained by the City Council to to make decisions on. So an example | 00:22:43 | |
of that and kind of routine city business is. | 00:22:51 | |
You can establish spending authority and spending limits and you can draw those thresholds wherever you would like them to be. | 00:22:59 | |
You, you're not restricted by law and what they are or on what those processes may be. And so different cities have them in | 00:23:06 | |
different places. Larger cities that have to make a lot of larger expenditures may not want to burden the council with those | 00:23:14 | |
decisions. Smaller cities that have more limited budgets may want more of those decisions to come to the City Council and so. | 00:23:21 | |
You within your code can determine where you want to draw those lines. What you can't change in your code is that the mayor is the | 00:23:29 | |
chief executive officer and that all employees report through that chain of command and that certain executive functions and | 00:23:35 | |
appointment functions that the mayor holds, that the mayor holds regardless of your form of government. And so those things | 00:23:41 | |
wouldn't change, but. | 00:23:46 | |
Your your ordinances under. Within that framework you you can decide where to stack them and where to put them. | 00:23:54 | |
Your biggest difference five and five member council, 6 member council is whether the mayor is a voting member of the council on | 00:24:01 | |
routine business of the City Council. | 00:24:06 | |
Is that I would have a vote as a legislative part of a legislative presently and on the 6th it would be limited and then the mayor | 00:24:13 | |
council form there would be a veto. | 00:24:19 | |
You mentioned a tax increase for the six member. You had also mentioned the mayor council form that would be a higher tax | 00:24:26 | |
increase. What were your thoughts on that? Are you leaning towards staying with the five member? Yeah. I just think at this time | 00:24:34 | |
without a consensus across that it's it's we have more important things to focus in on the city, especially with our proposed tax | 00:24:41 | |
rate increase. I just don't think it's. | 00:24:48 | |
You know, in looking at it, it was to solve the problems of the past and I don't see the jurisdictional changes to that change | 00:24:56 | |
this. I think that. | 00:25:01 | |
Just without having to mention all of them it it there's more aggressive one that removes and makes it very delineated legislative | 00:25:08 | |
and executive. And if the council is open to doing that I would have gone to that. I I think I'm not close the door on if. | 00:25:16 | |
You know, both of the governments would have increased costs other than mayor or council form of government and. | 00:25:26 | |
At this time with with the proposed tax rate increase, I just go with three people. We have the votes to be able to do what we | 00:25:35 | |
need to do. | 00:25:38 | |
And if if US 5 can't get it done, I don't think getting a six person to bury the burden solves it. | 00:25:43 | |
And I think it is, I think the six member is a better form of government. I think we're probably three to five years out on | 00:25:52 | |
getting to that. And I think proposing it to just increase the cost right now is not the right timing. But I, I do agree with | 00:25:59 | |
Sarah and Marty that in the future it is, it is a better form and it gets there, but. | 00:26:06 | |
You know, we just got out of a budget meeting where we're. | 00:26:14 | |
Don't have any money for anything, so I just go another City Council member. I don't see that as a needed cost. | 00:26:17 | |
Just financially OK. Any closing comments from the Council? | 00:26:23 | |
OK, if not I am going to. | 00:26:30 | |
I joined this meeting. We're now adjourned. Thank you for coming. | 00:26:34 |