No Bookmarks Exist.
And we'll get started as 534. And we are going to kick off the Bicycle Advisory Commission meeting for September 17th, 2024. 00:00:02
We will start with public comments, so anyone here that wants to speak about something that's not on the agenda today, you're 00:00:12
welcome to come up now. 00:00:16
OK. We'll move right into business items now. Item 3.1 is the Bicycle Advisory Commission bylaws. So Anthony Fletcher's gone 00:00:22
through a revised draft and provided that to us. And I think there was even a few copies there for anyone in the audience that 00:00:29
wanted to look at them. But Anthony, you can go ahead and take us through this and then we'll take appropriate action. 00:00:36
So. 00:00:47
My name is Anthony, as you are now and I would want to make this pretty quick. 00:00:48
I have left the, you know, all the changes that we made in track changes, so you know exactly what was changed based on our 00:00:55
previous discussion. 00:01:00
We went through all the bylaws thoroughly during our last meeting. We made a few changes here and there. 00:01:06
And then we decided that I will update this. 00:01:14
And to move to the next level would have to accept all these changes based on what we discussed. I don't know if you want to 00:01:19
really go through every bit of these changes. 00:01:25
But. 00:01:32
Everything was noted and affected in this one. So if there are no feather. 00:01:33
Changes to the bylaws based on the comments and review. 00:01:39
That we had to, you know. 00:01:46
The things that we have to change in this one, then we should be good to. 00:01:49
Make a motion on accepting. 00:01:54
This as a bylaw, yeah, So hopefully everyone had a chance to skim through that and look at that. If there's any comments, let's do 00:01:57
that now. And then I also, I didn't want to conflate to business items, but I also don't want to approve this and then talk about 00:02:02
a name change when it would impact this so we could. 00:02:07
Maybe discuss that as we go through this as well, because those would be some additional red line changes. 00:02:14
Right. And if we're going to be discussing both at the same time, I'd like to give a little background based on what happened last 00:02:20
time we did talk about. 00:02:24
Possibly changing the name to be more inclusive. So the few names that came up during our discussion was put in the staff report 00:02:29
just to make it easier for us when we meet today to discuss and make a decision. I did check also with the Bike Friendly 00:02:35
Communities America and they're excited about even the name change because they're thinking of making things a lot more inclusive. 00:02:41
So if we're doing this. 00:02:47
Name change with the aim of you know, still making our communities more bike friendly and you know, being more inclusive to have 00:02:54
all these other new things that are popping up, you know the electric scooters and all these things be part of the things that we 00:03:01
plan for then it's a good thing so. 00:03:07
We are clear to change the name if we want to. It doesn't have to be bike only like a BAC as we have it right now. Once we have a 00:03:15
bike focus, active transportation focus in there, they're fine. 00:03:22
Got it. OK. So with that context, we can kind of talk about both as we go through, but I know a few of you had some comments on 00:03:32
the content here and then we can talk. 00:03:35
What would be the most appropriate name for this Commission? 00:03:39
Yeah, I just had a question about the section Article 4 Membership, Section 1 composition. 00:03:43
As maybe pedantic, but it says the BC membership shall consist of two at large members. 00:03:53
Is that shall like an inclusive or like optional? We can have two at large members or. 00:04:00
Or shall as in mandated. We need to have like we'll always need to have, right? Yeah. 00:04:08
Yeah, sorry. 00:04:16
Yeah, the question is about the wording for. 00:04:18
BAC membership shall consist of two at large members. I'm just wondering if like future proofing, if we don't have two at large 00:04:21
members, are we still a valid Commission? 00:04:27
Can I respond, Chair? 00:04:35
Yeah, OK. 00:04:36
So the wording was shall just to make sure that we're having some expertise outside of residence in there. So currently we have 00:04:37
Jim Price with over 25, you know, years of experience in. 00:04:45
Anything that BAC is about right and more and Chris will see who's also in the same field professionally. 00:04:53
So when their terms are over, we're hoping to still have people like them to help us move. OK, yeah, that makes sense. But well, 00:05:01
welcome to change it if you would. I think what you were saying is. 00:05:06
Are we required to always have two out of city? 00:05:13
At large members? Or is it just an option to have those two and someday we might go back to just having 5 Vineyard residents 00:05:16
someday? 00:05:20
So maybe we want to word it that. 00:05:25
The membership The two at large members are. 00:05:29
Or maybe that green line the BAC membership may consist of may include two at large members that reside anywhere in the state, but 00:05:33
it's not a requirement to have. 00:05:38
Two at large members outside of the city. I think it's also fine if it's like a directive that we should sneak out. I mean, if 00:05:45
they ever leave us, which you won't ever leave us. 00:05:50
But if you do ever leave us, then I think it's a good directive to seek out expertise where we can find it. But you also don't 00:05:57
want to be like in violation if you just have 5 billion people helping out, so. 00:06:02
So we'll change that to May. 00:06:08
Thank you. And the green part there. And I'm also just circling all the BIC references because that could change the name here. 00:06:12
Can I make a suggestion on that as well while we're making some changes, Anthony and Mr. Chair? 00:06:19
Is since we're talking about at large members and the purpose of at large members. 00:06:27
Why we have that, we're not referencing that anywhere in the in the bylaws. Do we have some mission statement or something else 00:06:33
that references that why you would want to have at large members? 00:06:39
With the just, yeah, it's not real detailed, but just at large, remember Spring experiment. 00:06:46
But I don't read green for some reason. I only read red. 00:06:55
But if you want to elaborate on that, we can add some more. No, I don't think we need to elaborate. I think it's just it's it 00:07:02
should be explicit what the purpose of those at large members are. 00:07:07
Martina, Mike, you have any comments on the changes? 00:07:14
No, I think it's broad enough to to where if we do change the name. 00:07:19
This still fits for the vast majority of what's in here. 00:07:25
Agreed. 00:07:28
Yeah, some of the references to bicycles are quickly followed by. 00:07:30
And other forms of active transportation. 00:07:33
And we can still have goals to be diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:07:39
Kind of encompasses others, but. 00:07:43
Martinez, do you have thoughts? Do we need to elaborate on what Diamond is or is that something that's known across the board for 00:07:46
this one? 00:07:50
In particular, there's some set standards from. 00:07:55
Maybe we could add in according to was it League of American Cyclists or something like that? 00:07:59
Yeah, so I'm looking at Section 2. 00:08:06
2-2 You see that, Anthony? 00:08:12
I think just it's clarity on. 00:08:15
Diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:08:19
According to. 00:08:21
Yeah, League of American Bicyclists. 00:08:25
OK. Are there any other tiers or awards or for like pedestrian friendly or? 00:08:36
Active transportation, so that that could be something to consider once we if we change the name. 00:08:43
And you said there are some that are focused on pedestrian? 00:08:52
There are multiple tiers within. 00:08:59
The what are the? 00:09:02
Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond for the League of Cyclists, but are there other there are other organizations that have 00:09:06
awards for pedestrian friendliness. 00:09:13
Delete. 00:09:23
Do we want to include that? 00:09:25
We're aiming for these kinds of awards as well, or just limited to the. I think we can say like, yeah, we have a goal of becoming 00:09:28
that, but also pursuing other similar awards or something like that that could. 00:09:35
Leave it open to. 00:09:42
Top scootering destination or something like that, I don't know. 00:09:45
Whatever we want to aspire to. 00:09:50
OK. Any other comments on the changes before we talk about the name? 00:09:53
OK, sorry. Go ahead. 00:10:04
It's a little funky. The eyes and ears part provide a venue for public input and assistance as eyes and ears for issues pertaining 00:10:07
to active transportation in the city. 00:10:12
Yes, I think it. 00:10:17
Yeah, we can. We can reword that if we want to. But basically this Commission. 00:10:19
Is listening to the community and we're out there in the community seeing if there's any issues, so if we want to. 00:10:24
Provide a venue for public input and assistant. 00:10:33
You just take out as eyes and ears for and just assistance for issues pertaining to. 00:10:36
OK. 00:10:44
Yeah, so that would reread provide a venue for public input and assistance. 00:10:48
For issues pertaining to active transportation in the city. 00:10:54
Does that read better Martina for you? 00:10:58
Did you get that, Anthony? I've got my notes jotted down here that I can hand to you afterwards as well. 00:11:05
OK if there's no other comments on actual content changes. 00:11:14
One of the things that we talked about last time in regards to the name change was incorporating the term active transportation. I 00:11:20
checked with Jim, he said that's pretty common. 00:11:25
In Wasatch Front Regional Council has 1, Salt Lake County has one that's called the active transportation Commission. They don't 00:11:32
even say advisory Commission, it's just ATC for a few of these. So that's that's pretty standard. Now we don't have to follow any 00:11:38
of those standards, but I'd love your input and thoughts on what you think this should be named and. 00:11:44
How we can? 00:11:52
Basically, appeal to a broader audience than just those that are bicycling. 00:11:54
Yep, my my only thought on it was we could go even more generic and just be like active vineyard or something. But maybe people 00:12:01
think we'll do yoga in the park If we do that and I'm not comfortable doing you'll be in the. 00:12:08
I think actual transportation Commission is fine. 00:12:16
Yeah. 00:12:20
Thank you. Any comments I make on that. Or is it the active transportation is a commonly used terminology in the in the 00:12:28
profession? 00:12:32
And it's well understood by transportation people. 00:12:36
It's not as well understood by the lay public yet, but it's. 00:12:42
Gaining traction. 00:12:47
And having served on the ATC. 00:12:49
In Salt Lake County for many years. 00:12:53
It's gaining traction up there. It'd be nice to see it gain traction down here. 00:12:57
Do we all feel like that encompasses what we're going for here to include, you know? 00:13:05
Walking, running, cycling, rolling. 00:13:09
Scooters, all that kind of stuff. 00:13:13
Yeah, what would be an example of a passive transportation? 00:13:15
I guess getting pulled in a wagon, pushed in a stroller. 00:13:21
Yeah, I don't know. 00:13:27
Yeah, being driven in a car, I guess so. 00:13:30
Vehicle. 00:13:34
OK. 00:13:36
Is everyone OK then with active transportation Commission? 00:13:40
This would all be subject to approval by the City Council, I'm assuming with the OK. So these are just recommendations that we 00:13:44
that would be making okay. 00:13:48
And yeah, you can let us know when we would present these and we can make sure at least one of us is there to kind of speak 00:13:53
through some of the reasoning. 00:13:56
We have a member of the Council here today, so thanks for being here. 00:14:00
So yeah, let's just note then if we do change to or recommend Active Transportation Commission. 00:14:06
That. 00:14:12
BAC and Bicycle Advisory Commission would need to be updated throughout this. 00:14:14
Document. 00:14:19
Looks like they're on. 00:14:23
Most every page, most every section has something. 00:14:25
That refers to that. 00:14:28
Certainly have copies of bylaws from like Salt Lake County or other active transportation commissions to see. 00:14:31
How we would compare? 00:14:37
And if we're missing anything or that's a good idea. 00:14:39
They should all be. If they're like, truly approved by cities, then they should all be public. 00:14:43
But I think that. 00:14:54
That speaks to something else that I'd love to chat about more. It's just like kind of benchmarking and partnering with other 00:14:56
like. 00:14:59
What's Orem doing that's going well or that we want to make sure we don't do or Yeah, that's always a good idea. 00:15:02
So, Mike, are you proposing another iteration of this or? 00:15:14
Uh, no, I. 00:15:19
I think just to compare and contrast, I guess what we've got versus what else is out there. 00:15:21
Yeah, I think that's so. 00:15:26
OK, well. 00:15:32
Let's do, let's, let's do this then. I think it'd be good for us to put forward a recommendation to the council on what we've got 00:15:33
here just for some quick updates. But I think maybe for our future meeting, just benchmarking in general and maybe we could pull 00:15:41
in some like regional best practices. Jordan, and I'll be a part of it as well, is going to the Connected Communities Summit 00:15:48
tomorrow and Thursday. And I think there's some sessions that are actually on that and like resources. So maybe you'll have some. 00:15:55
Bring back to us. 00:16:03
All right, so on items 3-1 and three, two are there is there any more discussion that you want to have before we? 00:16:05
Make a motions for Anthony to pull this together to present to council. 00:16:12
I like to add, add that we don't need to present the bylaws to council. That would be we'll make a motion here and it becomes, you 00:16:21
know, it goes into effect right away, but the name would need a recommendation to council. Yeah, got it. 00:16:28
OK. So we only need a motion on the bylaw update? 00:16:39
Under bylaw, just to recommend the name change. OK, so we'll keep those separate. So let's do the bylaws first if someone's got a 00:16:43
motion to. 00:16:47
Make the updates as we discussed today and I have on the screen the recommendation from staff. 00:16:53
There we go. 00:17:02
Yeah. So I moved to adopt the revised bylaw document for the BAC, potentially AATC now. 00:17:06
Oh, I see. OK. 00:17:18
Condition with the condition that we are going to update the name to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:17:20
And the. 00:17:27
Handful of other changes that we've talked about today. 00:17:28
Anthony has had enough info for you on that so we got. 00:17:31
Motion by Jordan. Do I have a second for that second, Jim, with the second all in favor? 00:17:35
OK. Thank you for that. 00:17:44
And now just to keep that separate business item 3.2, the Bicycle Advisory Commission name change, we will, this is about 00:17:47
recommending a name change. So if I can get a motion, we we talked about the Active Transportation Commission, but if you have a 00:17:52
motion for something else, you're welcome to make that as well. 00:17:57
Yes. 00:18:09
I moved to recommend the your Microsoft. 00:18:16
I move to recommend the name change for the Bicycle Advisory Commission to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:18:21
All right. That was Martina. Thank you. Do I have a second? A second? Hey, Mike, with the second all in favor? 00:18:29
OK. So that will be presented to council and they'll be able to choose one way or another and then we'll make sure the bylaws 00:18:36
reflect. If that's not approved, then it'll stay BAC. If not ATC. 00:18:42
So we will be moving this into the next Planning City Council meeting. So it will be in the agenda. I will be sure to send you an 00:18:48
e-mail with an update on. 00:18:53
Whatever is going to happen or need someone to speak about it, great, SO. 00:18:58
OK OK. 00:19:03
All right, we'll move to business item 3.3, the ordinance amendment about mobility devices and golf carts, and it will answer the 00:19:04
question, are golf carts active transportation? 00:19:09
OK. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. 00:19:23
If you don't know me, my name is Brian I. 00:19:27
The parks director. 00:19:30
And I'm excited that we have this advisory group. I think it's super awesome and going to bring just a ton of value to Vineyard 00:19:33
that already has. 00:19:38
And I've noticed there's an increase in. 00:19:46
Electric type vehicles such as bikes, golf carts. 00:19:51
Dirt bikes, whatever it might be, lots of things throughout the city. And so I specifically want to come to you with this policy. 00:19:56
Regarding golf carts and E bikes. 00:20:06
Of. 00:20:09
How do we best regulate the usage of them in our parks? We've had a number of issues recently come up to where? 00:20:12
On recreation game nights we have golf carts that are zooming through the field. 00:20:22
In between games. 00:20:30
And there's been a lot of parents that have expressed their frustration and worry that there's going to be a potential accident. 00:20:32
There's been several close calls. And, you know, we get dirt bikes that cruise through the park or we get E bikes that go through 00:20:39
the splash pad. 00:20:46
Anyway, so we are in the process of trying to figure out how do we still allow all of these types of vehicles. 00:20:57
But regulate them in a way that we can help ensure. 00:21:03
Improve safety at parks. 00:21:08
So I kind of want to make this an open discussion. 00:21:12
But before I do that, kind of the latest of what we've talked about is with golf carts to still make it encouraging for people to 00:21:17
drive those because I think that it's beneficial to have these. 00:21:23
Alternative routes of transportation because it takes up less parking spots there's. 00:21:30
It just, it can be a lot easier for families to have golf carts to bring all their stuff they don't have to, you know, plug 00:21:37
everything from their car. 00:21:41
But the latest that we've come up with is having a standard that with golf carts, anyone that brings a golf cart to the park, they 00:21:46
would just need to park it within 10 feet of the trail or a sidewalk. So that way there's not any driving of the golf carts on the 00:21:54
field during games. 00:22:01
That way it's not any type of hazard to the kid while games are going. 00:22:09
But maybe just to start from there, I want to hear your guys's thoughts. You guys, I feel like are much more expert in this than I 00:22:14
am when it comes to knowledge of bikes and what that looks like. So what are regulations you would recommend? And then after we 00:22:21
have this discussion, I also want to know your thoughts on what could we do? 00:22:28
From a city standpoint to make our parks more bike friendly. 00:22:37
So let's first start out and just I want to hear your thoughts about what could we do to help regulate? 00:22:42
The usage of electric type vehicles. 00:22:48
Yeah, thoughts. 00:22:56
Yeah, I like the idea of just like park it within. 00:23:01
10 feet of the trail or sidewalk. 00:23:05
Do you think they would extend to like E bikes also or or only golf carts? 00:23:08
We're trying to decide. 00:23:14
Is where do we go with that? With the E bikes? Some concerns that we've had is. 00:23:18
We have limited space in between each field and so you have parents that sit on each side of the field. 00:23:26
And so when people park their bikes in between the fields, it could potentially be a barrier to people trying to walk through, 00:23:33
walk around, or they're running into parents or whatever it might be. So that's a potential concern. 00:23:40
But I'm open to your feedback on that. 00:23:49
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. So when we. 00:23:53
Take our kids to play soccer at the games. Occasionally we'll park, like you were saying, kind of in between the fields. And it's 00:23:57
a bit disruptive, to be fair. 00:24:01
I think just expanding it to say golf carts and E bikes, you should just park them along the sides. 00:24:09
And that leaves kind of flexibility for people to interpret is like, oh, well, if I have a normal bike with a trailer that I bring 00:24:18
my kids on, then I'm OK to be in the middle and I think that's fine. Or even like a smaller E bike with the trailer with kids I 00:24:24
think is also fine. I think it's more the once you get like even into the. 00:24:31
Kids writing on the back of your E bike that's. 00:24:39
Pretty substantial footprint of something to accommodate on the field. 00:24:42
Just with that, is there any concern with someone potentially stealing the bike if we? 00:24:47
By the sidewalk. That's why there's been kind of a like people want to keep it near them. 00:24:53
I mean with a golf cart, do you think pee out and. 00:25:00
But with the bike is a little bit different. 00:25:04
So I'm open to. 00:25:08
What are your thoughts on having a designated spot for these? 00:25:11
Or are we just saying free game for everybody across the? 00:25:17
Field. 00:25:23
Like a golf cart and E bike parking area, right Right. 00:25:25
Also, are we trying to find a solution for a very narrow? 00:25:30
Situation like, because I guess I'm here during soccer games, but like say a soccer game isn't on there. Are we still trying to 00:25:34
find similar regulations or rules all the time even if there's no soccer game going on? 00:25:41
I think, yes, I think it's more so an issue on game days of recreation events like high traffic general, which is kind of why it's 00:25:49
kind of a multi faceted issue, right? So I brought up this picture because I wanted to show you. So this is Grove Park. There's a 00:25:58
sidewalk that goes east West just on the north side of the field. And I would say this is where we have the most potential issues. 00:26:07
Is when we have, you know, E scooters or E bikes. 00:26:16
Typically it's young kids, it's teenagers. They go flying on this sidewalk here where you have people getting out of their cars 00:26:21
coming onto the sidewalk, or you've got this NS sidewalk here where kids are flying down and there's been. 00:26:29
Very close injuries happening right here at this corner. 00:26:38
Here just I'm sure. 00:26:43
Kind of all along. 00:26:46
That pathway. So there's been talk, you know, do we? 00:26:47
Prevent usage of. 00:26:50
Any type of electric vehicles on those two specific sidewalks. 00:26:53
Regulate that I'm not entirely. 00:26:58
I just want to get since you guys are the buying experts. 00:27:01
Of yeah. 00:27:05
We just want to find out. 00:27:07
I'm personally much more concerned about the movement of these vehicles on trails and sidewalks. And I am about where they park. 00:27:08
Like there could be a day where I'm where I'm bugged about where it's parked maybe. But like that's not, I don't know. It's it's 00:27:16
more about like, yeah, if my kids riding a scooter on a trail on a golf carts coming at them and my kid has to go off the trail 00:27:23
because that's coming by and it basically becomes like another Rd. like that. That's more what I'm concerned about regulating. 00:27:31
And I would about where it parks, but what if we had signs or something that's just for visibility for these writers, just to be 00:27:38
mindful of pedestrians or, you know, well, that was again, I'm going back to like actually on the trail, but like, I don't know if 00:27:46
you've seen these before. I think Murdoch Canal trail has some which they don't allow, like golf carts and things like that. But 00:27:53
like where you've got multi use and it's like, well, people who are walking, people who are on a skateboard, scooter, bike or. 00:28:01
Cases someone on a horse, but that could be like a cart or something like that. And it would just basically show if you're in a 00:28:09
golf cart, you yield to everyone, no one's yielding. You're the low on the low person there. And if you had a few of those signs 00:28:16
that might help. But I don't know if that solves the issue that you're that you're looking for, but I would hope that like by 00:28:24
default in that area that like people walking have priority. Maybe it's a bike dismount area maybe. 00:28:31
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. 00:28:40
Whatever approach we want to take there, I think, I think it's smart for the city though to like say we need to have some rules in 00:28:42
place to provide some safety because. 00:28:46
If someone got hurt and there's no rules in place, my guess is there's probably some liability. So well, and I'd be curious too, 00:28:51
of the close calls, what percentage of those was a 12 year old driving the golf cart versus an adult? So I don't know that it's 00:28:57
more the parking or like access, but who's actually operating the vehicle. And that I don't know if you can regulate that because 00:29:04
even even like an ATVI think you're supposed to be 16 years old. 00:29:11
Or a licensed driver and things like that, 'cause like, I think part of what makes Vineyard cool is we do have this like rural 00:29:18
heritage where people were zipping around on ATVs and things like that. I don't know if we'll ever get back to that necessarily. 00:29:24
I was talking to my wife about this. She's like, just have him make a really wide bike lanes and then everyone can use that. It's 00:29:30
like, hey, I like the sound of it. That's how like in Arizona where there's golf courses everywhere. They've got the lane for the 00:29:34
cards, but. 00:29:38
Again. 00:29:43
I think the part of the issue too is the Gulf hurts are going down the sidewalk even not necessarily the sidewalks that are 00:29:45
widened, but just sidewalks like on Center St. And then it's only wide enough for the golf cart and you're going to hopefully 00:29:50
trust a 12 year old not to hit you so. 00:29:55
Yeah. Have there, have there been like infrastructure damage at all like like those running over like sprinkler heads or like 00:30:01
things like that? Is that taking place as well? Because like I think we should think about like what, what other thing, what other 00:30:07
issues are being caused by this that we want to try to address while still allowing for like. 00:30:13
It's a fun unique thing here and like no one wants to shut it down. I just making sure that like. 00:30:21
You know, your little kid doesn't have to be. You know, the beauty of the trails is that you don't have to have your head on a 00:30:27
swivel wondering like if you're going to get hit. Like that's the whole point of a trail. So yeah, there was one incident where a 00:30:31
team. 00:30:35
In that golf cart. 00:30:39
Hit a fence. 00:30:41
Around the park and damage the fence. So that was one incident. The other one is kind of mainly more on roads we had. 00:30:43
A number of teenagers in a golf cart that we're going around the roundabout at Center St. and Main Street right as a car was 00:30:51
coming up. They weren't watching, barely dodged the car and were at the same time an E scooter went right through so. 00:30:59
Thankfully there was number injuries with that, but just given the situation we want to definitely get. 00:31:07
Can we set an age requirement for the golf carts? 00:31:15
Because if you do 16 they have to go through like drivers. 00:31:20
Permit. 00:31:26
Yeah, you could say like licensed drivers or something like that. 00:31:28
But again, I hate to be too prescriptive cuz it's like, again, let's kinda like the cool fun stuff about a golf cart is that it's 00:31:31
not a car, right? And so I don't know. 00:31:36
Good night. Hop in on that thing. 00:31:42
One of the things about and I find this interesting because as I was driving here this meeting and I saw exactly what we were 00:31:47
talking about in that field. 00:31:52
Golf carts don't belong anywhere. 00:31:59
Is the problem they don't Rd. along on the road? 00:32:03
They don't really belong on trails. 00:32:08
You know, but I sure as heck don't belong on sidewalks. 00:32:11
So where do they belong? 00:32:14
Golf carts are a different animal than E scooters and E bikes because of their size and weight. 00:32:17
And same with cars, same with ATVs. 00:32:25
Their size, weight, power is a different animal than a person on a scooter or person on that. 00:32:31
On an E bike. 00:32:37
Well, not all golf carts are created equally. There's some pretty burly golf carts. Yes, that's correct. 00:32:40
So it it, I think it kind of comes down to we need to define as a city what? 00:32:48
We're trying to do. 00:32:55
And what our goal, our values are? 00:32:57
Do we value the ability to drive a golf cart? 00:33:00
Within. 00:33:04
Off of a golf course or off off of private property? On public property? Anywhere on public property. 00:33:05
Or do we say, no, that's not an appropriate use on public property, including on trails, including on sidewalks, including on 00:33:12
streets? 00:33:15
Or do we say, yes, that is appropriate on streets because you don't allow ATVs on trails, you don't allow ATVs on sidewalks? 00:33:21
And. 00:33:32
They're more closely correlated in my mind to a golf cart. 00:33:34
In size and weight and that kind of thing. 00:33:39
That's speed, kind of, but. 00:33:44
The purpose is more correlated. 00:33:48
To that. 00:33:51
And in Utah, we've said that. 00:33:54
ATV's, if they're licensed, can be driven by a licensed driver on the street. 00:33:59
Can we do the same thing, or has that been addressed in state law in any way? 00:34:06
I'm with, with, I don't know. 00:34:10
Other. 00:34:12
Things like golf carts or other. A golf cart is a. 00:34:15
In my mind. 00:34:20
A really mellow ATV. It's electric powered. 00:34:23
Like the original side by sides. 00:34:27
So where does it really go and if it doesn't really belong anywhere? 00:34:32
Kind of that's kind of where you have to start. 00:34:38
Where does it belong and where can we allow it? I think allow. You don't want to continue to encourage people to. 00:34:41
Bring a golf cart. 00:34:50
By giving them a place to park. 00:34:53
If you're not going to give them a place to get from home to that place to park first, a route, yeah. 00:34:56
Nothing is that I think we have to be really careful about regulating, trying to regulate E bikes. 00:35:05
And this is and I'm putting this in air quotes for the record. 00:35:13
E bikes versus regular bikes. 00:35:18
I have both, I ride both. 00:35:22
I've built both. 00:35:26
I know the the capabilities and the upsides and the downsides of both. 00:35:29
The upside of an E bike is that. 00:35:34
If I leave, if I go over that hill, I know I can get back over that hill. 00:35:38
It doesn't matter how old I am or how out of shape I am, I know I can usually get back over that hill. If I do that on my road 00:35:44
bike, I'm not sure I can always get back over that. 00:35:48
So there's a purpose to E bikes and there's a there's a public policy I. 00:35:54
Quality of life issue with E bikes is we want people to leave their cars at home, right? We want them to be more active, we want 00:36:06
to give them more freedom of choice. 00:36:11
And E bikes do exactly that. 00:36:17
To a certain point, an E bikes become a problem where they're too fast, they're too heavy, they're not being written responsibly. 00:36:21
But of course, normal bikes are not written responsibly either. 00:36:26
Let's say if it wasn't an E bike that's riding out over the grass, maybe it's going to be a mountain bike. Something, not somebody 00:36:33
on a mountain bike is doing this exactly the same thing? 00:36:38
And so I think you first have to start with what are we trying to do? What are, what are our values and what do we want to allow 00:36:43
and what do we want to? 00:36:48
Encourage people to do and what we want to discourage people from doing. 00:36:54
And that's just the start. I think putting signs up is a start. My experience has been that people don't pay attention to signs. 00:36:58
Whether they see them or not. 00:37:10
They do pay attention to being ticketed. 00:37:12
Which the a sign would be a precursor. Usually a precursor. I would never want to discourage a kid. Say the ordinance would be 00:37:16
precursors, sure. I just never would have wanted to discourage a kid. 00:37:23
Even E biking to practice because the alternative is OK, dad, get in the car and drive me over there. You know, like. So yeah, we 00:37:29
got to think about the consequences with some of that unintended consequences of banning or allowing. 00:37:36
Exactly what we're what we're trying to focus on trying to figure out. 00:37:44
Same thing with E scooters as opposed to just push scooters. 00:37:52
E Scooters. 00:37:56
Heck of a lot of fun to ride. Heck of a lot more fun than push scooters. 00:37:58
And I see them everywhere and I see people flying on those and I see people without how much, which just makes me. 00:38:02
But then I say, and I see people on motorcycles, helmets and so it's the same thing but. 00:38:12
One thing I might suggest. 00:38:20
Is that the city? 00:38:23
Do some research on you know, we were talking about. 00:38:26
What the weather ATC's do? What do other cities do? 00:38:30
I'm sure that there are other cities that I'm 100% sure that there are other cities that have tried to tackle what's very same, 00:38:34
including Salt Lake City. 00:38:37
And especially with it with the E scooters and E bikes. 00:38:42
And they've been. 00:38:47
Somewhat successful in their approach. 00:38:50
But I don't think they've had to deal with. 00:38:53
Things like. 00:38:56
Golf carts yet? 00:38:58
And so. 00:39:01
That may be something, I don't know, Anthony, if I just sent a text to Dan Wayne and Mag to ask if it would be appropriate to do a 00:39:03
like a. 00:39:09
Tag study. Technical assistance study. 00:39:17
Looking at this, at this very thing. 00:39:22
And kind of help maybe the rest of the cities within. 00:39:26
Utah County or within Utah start to address this. 00:39:30
Vineyard is by far not alone. Noises everywhere. 00:39:33
Just to go off that too, there's been some regulations that other. 00:39:40
Cities that put in regarding the type of E bike so like those that you know can go home. 00:39:44
Right. So that's kind of one potential thing that we can do, but I mean there's a million situations that. 00:39:54
A good looking for saying it. 00:40:05
But this has been helpful to get your guys thoughts on this. So well I had one other thing. So without. 00:40:16
By default, like carving out like a full throated endorsement of golf carts, right? By doing some of these things, I think we can 00:40:25
address some of the issues by like anything that's concrete there on this screen. What if that was a? 00:40:31
Dismount pedestrian only, wheelchair only. 00:40:40
Right. And so it's like I'm not riding my bike through there. 00:40:43
While people are, you know, while games are in session or something like that, it's really just for people walking or using 00:40:47
wheelchairs or. 00:40:51
That's all it's for. On the concrete like that might be something to look at. 00:40:55
And then the other thing I was thinking of on the trails. 00:41:01
Again, enforcement. I don't know if you'd ever do this, but. 00:41:04
If you said there's a 15 mile an hour limit on the trails, is that OK? So like, maybe making that known? Because again, like a 00:41:07
responsible mom driving a golf cart 5 miles an hour on the trail doesn't really like concern me that much. Maybe someday it will. 00:41:14
If there's, you know, 500 of them, who knows? 00:41:21
But it's it's the people like tearing around going real fast that that that's where dangerous things are going to happen. So. 00:41:29
Maybe it's just education, like, especially if there's stuff already in place, Maybe it's just like, hey, let's double down on 00:41:36
this and make sure that that's not a problem. 00:41:40
Just a couple thoughts. There's the other. 00:41:44
MM goes over 15 miles an hour on his bike. 00:41:48
Just don't tell on me. I know they're trying to watch on Murdoch. 00:41:52
I will say, and this is not bragging, but this is because I was being chased by a lightning storm coming down Provo Canyon on my 00:41:58
road bike. I hit 35, which for me is slow. I mean for me is fast. 00:42:03
For the professionals, that's you're not really going very fast. 00:42:14
Regular bikes can go just as fast as your bikes in certain situations. E bikes make it easier for people who are less experienced 00:42:19
to go faster. Is it kind of where it causes problems? 00:42:25
One of the things that I might also suggest here is that in addition to signage, it may be some physical barriers. And that seems 00:42:32
to work really well on where you've got where you've got limited access or yeah, like like the the boardwalk, I don't know if 00:42:38
you've seen that. It's got a little bollard in the middle. There's no golf carts that go across that. 00:42:45
One other thought I had to especially if we want to address those that don't have licenses but still want to drive. 00:42:53
If the city did a program, maybe even a revenue generating opportunity to say, hey, you got to go through this course and you have 00:43:00
to get a permit, right? And it's just for the use in, in within Vineyard so that if something does happen and they're not 00:43:07
permitted or they don't have the permit or whatever, right? At least we're trying to educate and be proactive on that front and 00:43:14
explain the rules as opposed to just letting them run around wherever, right? And then hoping that they don't get an accident. 00:43:21
Awesome. Yeah, I think that's great. 00:43:30
There's a sorry, I was going to add two more things. So on BYU campus, you can't ride your bike during the class breaks, which I 00:43:34
think works really well because there's a ton of people walking there, but you can any other time. So I wonder if just during 00:43:39
events we just have a sign says walk your bike and just put it at like. 00:43:44
The North End of that. 00:43:51
Because if you show up on a Tuesday at 3:00 PM to that park, you can ride your bike around there no problem. The other one is that 00:43:54
there's a city in Georgia called Peachtree City, I think, that has a ton of golf carts, like everywhere. Like people write them to 00:44:01
high school people write them to. 00:44:08
Go see grandma, whatever. And it doesn't seem like their trust system is that much wider than ours. So I'd be curious to see like 00:44:16
how they actually manage it because they have like a dedicated trail system and everybody just uses it for golf carts. And maybe 00:44:22
they just have like enough people only doing golf carts and not kids biking. But I would imagine that little kids ride their bikes 00:44:28
on those trails also. And so I'd be curious to see how they. 00:44:34
Actually manage that if they really do have like separated infrastructure for golf carts versus bikes versus walking or. 00:44:41
They just have a culture of. 00:44:48
Golf carts actually yield to everybody or I don't know, but it's the same in Arizona to in certain spots. 00:44:51
The golf carts yield to the bikes, but in the bike path is much larger and it has a picture of a golf cart and a bike. So the golf 00:44:56
cart just yields to the bike. It's one of the one of the first issues and that's a great comment about the width. 00:45:05
Is there actually width for a bike and a golf cart to share a path safely? 00:45:14
Typically in the in the 8 to 10 feet. 00:45:21
Of trail that we have in most of the cities in Utah, the answer that's an easy no. It's pretty cool. 00:45:24
Golf carts are just way too big. 00:45:32
But it could be like Main Street, Center Street, where you got the bike image on the far right lane you could put a golf cart. 00:45:35
Logo there too. 00:45:41
Force everybody on the road. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of like unused space on our roads that even cars don't occupy 00:45:43
the median for 95% of the time. 00:45:48
There you go. I mean repainting our Rd. 00:45:55
Inside and a golf cart laying on the outside. 00:46:00
And the golf cart lane protects the bike lane from the traffic and the 12 year old driving the golf. 00:46:03
Just wear a helmet. Yeah, Transition now into. 00:46:10
What can the Vineyard City do to make our parks more bike? 00:46:13
I think one one thing is that you have you currently have bike parking, right? 00:46:24
They have places for people to lock, put their bikes and lock them. 00:46:29
We have some, there could be more closer to the fields I think probably. 00:46:35
And if you're playing way down here? 00:46:44
Bike up here and that's that's pretty far to. 00:46:46
So I don't know if there's, you know, for bike parking by these or something. 00:46:51
I feel like routes would be. 00:46:58
Helpful. 00:47:01
As in like. 00:47:02
Like visually? 00:47:05
Designatings. 00:47:09
Like a route or something. 00:47:11
Like with a trail map? Yeah, yeah. Like this is the recommended route for bike users or something like that. 00:47:13
Which we'd probably have to do some study on, like OK, this is. 00:47:23
But yeah, it's kind of the idea of like safe routes to school, but like safe routes to our city amenities like. 00:47:28
Parks. 00:47:34
That could be good. 00:47:37
And are we thinking like, hey, you can ride your bike on the grass or is it mainly for cemented areas or? 00:47:41
I don't know what other options there are. 00:47:53
For big events, which I don't know if that falls underneath Parks and Recreation, but. 00:47:58
We had talked about. 00:48:04
Using the tennis courts, pickleball courts is like a. 00:48:06
More safe, secure bike parking if it's like. 00:48:10
Like that 911 event that we just did, or the Heritage Days where it's really big. 00:48:14
We threw out the ideas, but we didn't really execute, you know, in time for some of that stuff. But yeah. 00:48:18
In future years, I think that could be a good one to look at too. 00:48:25
You're talking to the right guy. He's the he's all in charge of all these things because I know parking can be tight. 00:48:29
For like just a regular Saturday morning events, but I think you guys do a pretty good job and. 00:48:37
It's not like a deal breaker, but for like heritage days, there's probably some people that don't show up. 00:48:42
Because parking so bad or it's so hard, or there's some people. 00:48:47
That have to drive and don't have the so like the people that don't need to drive, you know, giving them an easy, easy way. I 00:48:51
think that's one one thing that could help. That's more event management though, than like infrastructure for the park. 00:48:57
I think I'm just like a normal no event, no programming going on at the park. 00:49:06
Things are pretty good, I agree. 00:49:12
Maybe the, maybe the. 00:49:15
Bike parking at. 00:49:17
At Grove Park is not the best in the world, but. 00:49:20
Like most of the time people just kind of pull up and. 00:49:23
Park right next to the bench or next to whatever they're doing there and. 00:49:27
It's not like we're at capacity on a. 00:49:32
Normal day or whatever, I think it's really the event. 00:49:37
Where there's a ton of people or even like after the. 00:49:40
The parade. 00:49:47
Down at the Sunset Beach Park and around there seemed like there was. 00:49:50
Yeah, just kind of confusion around like, yeah, I rode my bike here and that's great and now I just leave it here or. 00:49:55
Like what do I do? 00:50:02
And so people kind of just do what they assume is best or assume is acceptable. 00:50:04
So yeah, I think having. 00:50:10
I think having a strategy around how we're going to handle bikes or bigger events, which. 00:50:12
Would be great if we can staff that all the time. 00:50:18
If not at least having kind of a designated area, I think we could. 00:50:21
Is it likely that those with E bikes? 00:50:26
Feel comfortable even just locking their bike into a bike rack. 00:50:29
Or is that not? 00:50:32
I don't ride an ebike, but I ride a bike that I still wouldn't lock up to to. 00:50:38
I don't, but that's just me and I'm OCD about it. But yeah, yeah. 00:50:44
So something to consider. Funny because I'm just the opposite. I have a. 00:50:49
I wouldn't. 00:50:54
I wouldn't lock up my road bike. 00:50:55
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind writing with a big heavy chain on my E bike. And I've done that because I don't want to carry that 00:50:58
chain, that big heavy chain on my road bike anywhere. 00:51:04
I think I think generally people, especially people with like maybe in my demographic, if you have kids and you have an E bike are 00:51:10
pretty LAX about like even locking their bike up anywhere, which I think is probably a cultural shift that we should change. I 00:51:17
think one thing that we could do to try to incentivize that behavior of like, you know, you should like lock up your bike or know 00:51:24
where it is is. 00:51:30
Work on the bike registration stuff. 00:51:38
Just to kind of shed awareness to like somebody might steal your bike. Like we live in a nice city, but somebody might still come 00:51:40
steal your bike. And so let's get it registered and let's have a plan in place of. 00:51:47
Where you going to park your bike when it's out in public and. 00:51:54
And whatever. 00:51:57
Yeah. But yeah, to summarize my thoughts on, I think the parks are great and that's evidenced by like, just like how many people 00:51:58
ride their bike there. Like we do a pretty good job, but if you got more places to sit. 00:52:04
Like a cement pad that has a bench and a bike rack and a few of those around, like close to the trail so that you can kind of 00:52:11
spectate like, I think that would go a long way. And did your question center on events or just like parks in general? 00:52:18
OK. 00:52:26
OK this isn't a park, but I guess the park strip next to bus stations if we could get like a bike rack there. 00:52:29
That'd be cool. I've seen people. 00:52:38
Like or where the like the junior high and elementary bus stops are because yeah, some of the kids. 00:52:40
Yeah, they want a bike or scooter to the bus stop. I know the city did a good job out there. They put one just right here. Yeah, 00:52:51
that was really smart, like, and I think they could probably use that in other places. It's probably tough though, because maybe 00:52:57
the school district arbitrarily changes pick up spots too, so I get it. But where it makes sense, like I know some of them are 00:53:02
near like detention ponds and things like that where it's just kind of unused area. You could throw some racks and things there. 00:53:08
Well this is great. Thanks for your time and forgiving. 00:53:15
Feedback So I'll definitely do more research into this and work with Holden. Who? 00:53:20
And have more to say. What happens on the streets? Yeah. 00:53:27
Just, I'm sure this will kind of be an ongoing conversation. We'll find all the solutions in one night, but. 00:53:33
Maybe we did, yes. 00:53:39
Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming. And like, yeah, I think overall, like they're fun as long as people are safe, 00:53:42
right? And I think that's all you're trying to go for. So that's good. 00:53:47
I have one more thing for the park because I am long winded. Sometimes the bike pump nozzle, the rubber in there wears out, 00:53:52
especially along the Murdoch trail. Like all of those are kind of worthless because the the rubber doesn't really work very well, 00:53:58
especially over like winter. It just gets like dried up and doesn't seal properly. So what's the best thing? Like if someone sees 00:54:04
that just do the like the report a concern on the OK. 00:54:10
What if there's like a sticker or something we could put on those like if it's not working like? 00:54:18
Scan this QR code and yeah, that might message Anthony Jenkins. Yeah, yeah, here's Anthony. 00:54:23
Sure, I've got. 00:54:30
I can't do anything about it, but but that's not just for bike stuff. Like if you saw a swing was broken, like you'd probably want 00:54:32
to know that stuff, right? 00:54:36
You better leave before we give you more feedback. 00:54:43
OK, thanks. 00:54:52
Anthony, that, that, that was a business item, but there's no action needed on that one, right? It was more just kind of talking 00:54:55
through. 00:54:57
OK. 00:55:01
So the conversation we had had before this presentation was he'd take the comments and possibly. 00:55:03
Have them all presented as so our comments could be put into motion. 00:55:10
To him to be treated as a recommendation to counsel. 00:55:16
So we still have to make a motion. 00:55:21
Before we end that. 00:55:23
That business item? 00:55:26
So, OK, so we could we could ask for someone to make a motion. 00:55:28
For Brian to incorporate our feedback into the code changes that they are recommending. OK. 00:55:32
Well, yeah, I know none of us concisely did that, but you were taking some notes here and it's recorded so you can go back. But 00:55:39
anyone want to make a motion so moved? 00:55:43
Yeah. So Jordans making a motion that Anthony set out there, anyone second? 00:55:49
I second it. All right, Martin, with a second all in favor. 00:55:57
Aye, OK. 00:56:01
Right, you've got our you've got our blessing to go forward with that then. 00:56:04
OK. All right. We'll now move on to staff, Commission and committee reports. Let's start with the Commission. We'll just go down 00:56:08
the line and see if there's anything that you wanted to share, anything top of mind. 00:56:13
I just had one. Maybe it's a stretch because I think part of what we're trying to do is connect all the trails, not just with 00:56:19
inventory but other parts of the county. Is there any way to work with Provo to like redo that Provo River Trail? It is insanely 00:56:27
horrible. Well, I don't know if anybody's ridden it from like the mouth of Provo Canyon back. Like there's no more markings 00:56:34
anymore. They painted them all out so people just walk wherever they ride bikes wherever. 00:56:41
I don't know. I'm just like going through the city itself. Do we have like a special favor or somebody we know that we could talk 00:56:50
about that? 00:56:53
So. 00:56:58
Jordan Jordan's gonna see some bike Provo people and I will too tomorrow. And it's to the point where like I try not to go down 00:56:59
that trail anymore. I it's insanely horrible. My mountain bike if I do a lot. 00:57:05
For some of the like the root because they flattened some of the root areas out, but it's still just another redoing Some of the 00:57:11
underpasses too like by the river and under. 00:57:15
Widening them a little bit, but it's very. 00:57:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't know the answer on that or somebody has a phone number I could call every day until somebody does 00:57:24
something. But yeah, I think if I just look at that and zoom out a little bit like you're basically just saying regional trail 00:57:29
infrastructure and making sure that. 00:57:33
What we have adds to the value of that and everyone else is also trying to keep their regional trails. 00:57:39
I like that, yeah, it's more PC wave approaching it. 00:57:45
I have a name and a number. If you would like that I would love that. 00:57:50
Happy shared with that I would I would suggest that your first. 00:57:54
There are actually 3. 00:57:59
Different agencies that should be in contact with the city should be in contact with. 00:58:02
1st is going to be MAG. 00:58:09
They're going to be Calvin Clark. 00:58:11
I was doing what I used to do. 00:58:14
Or at least took my spot. 00:58:17
This is something actually that. 00:58:25
It's funny bring this up. 00:58:28
In the, in the, in the context of things that we're doing, these are, these are generational changes, these are, these are long 00:58:30
term changes to the infrastructure. 00:58:34
It always takes a long time, a lot longer than we'd like. 00:58:38
A lot longer than than anybody wants, and they're always more expensive than anybody wants. 00:58:42
But if they're done right. 00:58:49
Than they're going to be done right for a very long time. 00:58:51
And that's one of the reasons that I would encourage. 00:58:55
Connection first with mag #1 because Calvin has expertise in this, he has contacts. 00:58:59
Between all the cities and the county and UW and everybody who would be a shareholder in doing something like that. 00:59:08
And two, because MAG is a Funding Agency, they bring a lot of money to the table. 00:59:16
For reconstruct, constructing and reconstructing trails. In fact, the reconstruction of the Pearl River Trail along University 00:59:22
Ave. 00:59:27
Was funded by MAG OK. 00:59:32
And. 00:59:37
That one still has paint and and and 3rd paint is they'll have to talk offline about paint. Just as long as it gets a smooth 00:59:40
surface. Like you look at Murdoch, that's a great trail, even though there's really no paint on it, but it's still smooth, it's 00:59:45
wide enough. 00:59:51
You get on that purple river trail and there's like gaps, like, I don't know, it's yeah, that's maintenance issue. Small child 00:59:58
could fall in one of those. Yeah. Same with with Jordan Trail. It's it's a. 01:00:03
It's a maintenance issue. 01:00:10
And the third one will be Utah County, because they're all. 01:00:12
That's good. 01:00:16
But yeah, I like that. And I think if you if you chat with Matt, give us an update next time because I think what Vineyard wants 01:00:18
to do, we've got. 01:00:23
You know, the trail to from my neighborhood to Grove Park is not going to be part of a regional trail network, but along the lake 01:00:28
like that, that fits in and that should all be part of a cohesive network, right? So I think that's that's good. 01:00:35
Jim, do you have anything? 01:00:45
I feel like I've said more than I should have. 01:00:48
All right, well, if you do have things, feel free to speak up. 01:00:52
One thing that I just wanted to bring up and Nassim actually did a report a concern on this. There's a there's a couple places in 01:00:56
the city where. 01:01:00
The trails will dead end into like a park strip, but I mean it's not the end of the world. You can turn right and go over to 01:01:07
someones driveway and down. But you know, if you're in a wheelchair or you know, rollerblading or roller skating like it, it might 01:01:13
be a little more disruptive than you know, like on a bike. So I'm just identifying some of those areas. I don't think that's like 01:01:20
the highest priority, but I think it's probably good to have on some. 01:01:27
Plan somewhere, you know, if there's, because I think they're probably fairly inexpensive projects too. So if there's just a list 01:01:34
of like, hey, if we've got budget at the end of the year, you know, we could. 01:01:39
Add that additional. 01:01:44
Sidewalk or trail that connects it to the road or you know, grind the curb down South. It's an ADA ramp or whatever it might be. 01:01:46
So anyway, I just was going to bring that up because there's there's a few places that are like that. 01:01:51
Yeah, so we did the bike to the UVU. 01:01:59
Walk and roll to Campus Day. 01:02:05
Anthony and I rode and we had one other person join us on the scooter. Made a few connections with people there. Met two people 01:02:09
actually who live in Vineyard who go to UVU. 01:02:16
One is who the people? 01:02:23
I forget if it was there somewhere else. Somebody brought up a concern. They live on Mill Rd. in an apartment along there. And 01:02:27
they're like, yeah, I used to lock up my bike outside my apartment just like kind of under the stairs there. I guess the apartment 01:02:33
building banned that. They're wondering if the city can do. 01:02:39
Anything or has any advice of like where to park your bike if you live on Mill Rd. 01:02:46
Those apartment buildings really don't have great bike parking at all that honestly, none of those apartment buildings have any 01:02:52
bike parking. So unless you're bringing it into your apartment, yeah. Yeah. So he parks us in his living room. 01:02:58
I've I've seen a few people just like leave them out on the balcony or whatever. 01:03:06
I don't know how to fix that or what to do about that but. 01:03:11
There's something also talked to the Orem police at the UVA event. They were registering bikes there. 01:03:14
They said that the county has a unified way of doing that, so I'm going to follow up with our. 01:03:23
Police force here. 01:03:31
To get incorporated with that, with the hope that we could. 01:03:32
Get some stickers or whatever, just get added to their database and then maybe participate in like the next. I think the next big 01:03:39
city thing is the Halloween trick or treat event. If you had like a a booth to the side there of just registering your bike and. 01:03:47
Putting a sticker on it would be something new. 01:03:55
And then? 01:03:59
The other thought as far as events goes, so we have. 01:04:01
A calendar of events for the May bike month set up now that I can. 01:04:07
I don't know if you were included in that e-mail. Yeah, I don't know if I saw the final one, but yeah, Anna had all those mapped 01:04:13
out, right? Yeah. So kind of the kind of the key strategies there is that we're going to try to coordinate at least with Orem to 01:04:19
do our Bike to Work day on the same day that they're doing theirs. Potentially have like a snack station at the front runner 01:04:24
station just for whoever. 01:04:30
And then? 01:04:37
Also kind of revamped the bike rodeo a little bit. 01:04:40
To be maybe not just a kids safety event but like a more generic like bike skills event. If you're an adult and want to learn how 01:04:44
to ride a bike then that might be a good Ave. for that. Also I. 01:04:53
Maybe some tuning lessons or something. Yeah, yeah, like a bike maintenance type of thing. So. 01:05:03
Yeah, that's kind of a. 01:05:10
Kind of the bigger change for this year's, trying to incorporate some different ideas into that event. 01:05:14
And then? 01:05:20
Try to also continue to expand our events during the year a little bit. So I think the next thing that we should try to do is like 01:05:22
a winter bike to school day, maybe sometime early January when a lot of kids aren't riding their bike to school because it's cold. 01:05:29
Which is fair, but I think we can still do that. 01:05:38
When the leaves start changing, like there was a couple people that wanted to do a little thing, but yeah, like a little fall 01:05:41
ride. Yeah, that'd be fun. It's really fun. Pretty cool. 01:05:47
Um, I think. 01:05:54
Everything that I have. 01:05:58
Nice, Martina. 01:06:00
Anything from you? 01:06:02
I missed the last meeting, but did we talk about the city tour like the bike tour at all? 01:06:07
Yeah. Did you have anything you wanted to add about that? Just like if we could have a mic or whoever. OK, So if there is an 01:06:44
educational aspect, make sure everyone can hear. But it was really cool. There's so many people that came and I just thought like, 01:06:52
man, this is what community looks like, you know, like everybody coming together and just getting excited about what's going on. 01:07:00
Or at least informed. Yeah, yeah, yes. Informed, yes. 01:07:08
Oh yeah, here we go. Here's some pictures that anything's got up there. 01:07:12
But yes, it was a success. It was good. 01:07:16
All right, well, if that's it from the Commission, we'll go to staff real quick. Anthony Museum, Holden, anything from you? 01:07:20
That's active transportation related. 01:07:28
Yes. 01:07:31
I have a few things for the Commission. 01:07:31
All right, so. 01:07:34
The first one would be the Connected Community Summit, which is happening tomorrow, and that's the 18th and 19th. 01:07:36
This is happening at the Utah Valley Convention Center, so if any of you is interested in being part of this, please let me know 01:07:45
and we'll get you tickets for that. So. 01:07:51
It's on the House. 01:07:58
But like, let him know now because so yeah, it's tomorrow. So if you're interested, you just let me know now. 01:08:01
Yeah. 01:08:07
So that's that's the main thing that's urgent right now. But the next thing is going to be an update on the tag grant. We're 01:08:08
fortunate to have Anthony join us in the consultant selection meeting. We have selected a consultant. 01:08:17
It's Ave. consultants with other consultants. They came together, but it's been led by Ave. and today we sent out a draft contract 01:08:27
that is being reviewed. 01:08:34
So we're probably going to be on the contract with the selected consultant. 01:08:42
In the next week or two. 01:08:48
The plan is once they get in the contract and they start working, there's going to be a date that we put together for. 01:08:50
Town hall where the, you know, the whole project is pretty much opened to the entire community to come, you know, ask questions 01:09:00
and just get to know about it. But the BAC will be heavily involved in a lot of the meetings that go on with that project, so. 01:09:09
Were just a few weeks away from being busy. We might organize some special sessions. 01:09:19
I don't know till we have really a contract in place and we have a game plan with the consultant. 01:09:26
So that's a quick update that I wanted to give. Other than that, I think we're doing great. 01:09:32
Thank you. 01:09:39
Did you have anything? 01:09:42
If you get all the way up here and say no, I'm going to be frustrated. 01:09:49
Seeing the door by the worst director, I say engineer. 01:10:02
I have something. 01:10:06
So we've recently been working with Frontrunner in regards to the front runner, what they call the Front Runner Point Improvement 01:10:09
project in regards to. 01:10:14
Doing more increase the frequency for front runner throughout Utah County, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County and so and such. One 01:10:20
of the items that's been we've been having some discussions with is and we've been working with the city forum and are continuing 01:10:26
to work with city forum in regards to continuing the trail. 01:10:32
Along down South of Vineyard Rd. I believe that's what it's called down here, but it's a road that takes you from right by. 01:10:39
Center St. down to kind of where they're building the new townhouses, as well as in the coming looping down to Lakeside Park. 01:10:50
Yeah, there we go, Lakeside Park. 01:10:55
As well, But we're also talking about some doing some realignment realignments of the road, but also too and in terms of kind of 01:11:02
what that kind of spurred the trail discussions to and to provide the connectivity from Viner down to the sports park and also. 01:11:11
To help, taught us some discussions about addressing the parking. 01:11:21
I'm on there because right now a lot of people are parking on the streets and there's an overflow flow in the park on the streets, 01:11:26
which provides. 01:11:29
Now they, you know, hazards for cars, but hazards for everyone else who are trying to get in and out. And obviously we understand, 01:11:33
we know that the recent history of the pedestrian safety in that area, but also part of our discussions have been working with 01:11:39
with Orem City about connecting on the east side of the railroad tracks there. We go east side of the railroad tracks where the 01:11:45
Vine Apartments are, where the trail terminates. 01:11:51
To where the bridge have missing piece like a year ago. 01:11:58
Yeah. So having some discussions with connect all the way through to, we're having some discussions with ARM, but more importantly 01:12:03
with ETA in regards to utilizing some right away space property that DTA has reserved and will want to keep reserving, but would 01:12:11
be open to the city building a trail there on the basis that if they ever needed the trail goes away. 01:12:19
But you know that is maybe in a 50 years or 100 years from now. 01:12:29
Or it might be tomorrow. It's one of those things. 01:12:34
But I mean, they're very open to that. And Orem City, we had discussions with Orem Cities city engineer, engineering staff as well 01:12:36
as their plan, their planner, planning department in regards to that. So hopefully we see some good movement along there. I know 01:12:42
that's been a topic discussion like a year and a half ago. 01:12:48
And for other reasons, I'm sure, let's just put on pause. So we want to move forward with that because that not only provides the 01:12:55
connectivity for recreational use, but also it provides another route for the people that live in the apartments to get to 01:13:02
Vineyard Elementary without having to go a mile and a half out of their way. 01:13:09
On that one so I just wanted to give you updates on that. And then of course we received the especially thanks to MAG and from the 01:13:17
former people of MAG that we received the federal we're we're moving forward receiving federal funding to do some drug enhancement 01:13:23
projects. One of them is over at Center Street by. 01:13:29
Franklin Elementary, Franklin Elementary and Gammon Park, we did the city when there's some plumber improvements there now as well 01:13:36
as the work over by Vineyard Elementary and Lakeside Park as well with some for some improvements there. Both the areas of city 01:13:43
this improvements is to get something into the ground, but the funding that we'll be receiving will actually be for some good long 01:13:50
term sustainable improvements 1. 01:13:57
Notably, is to help with the. 01:14:05
Driveway improvement. 01:14:08
Realignment for the Lakeside Park. 01:14:09
To ensure that you know. 01:14:12
Regular intersection. So it's a classic four way versus an offset four way. I'm, you know. 01:14:14
Funny enough, when I when we talked to or city of warm about that for before your answer was their park was there first, Vineyard 01:14:20
came second, so. 01:14:24
Well, we're, but we're still interested in the lead to make make that correction. 01:14:28
So those are, yeah, those are the big things on there. 01:14:33
And hopefully again, hopefully. 01:14:42
Connection underneath 800 N into the to the front runner station in the new trail system. Yeah, connection there. I mean, we're 01:14:44
yeah. And we're working forward without making this like all the other construction that might happen. There is solely nothing to 01:14:50
do with the trail. It's just kind of more landscaping improvements as well as infrastructure improvements. Residents that live 01:14:55
over in those townhomes and they've really. 01:15:00
It's a big upgrade, yeah. And we're playing out, yeah, we're playing out planting trees along there just to provide some good, 01:15:05
like a good distinguishing on the, you know, privacy slash, aesthetics slash, you know, everything else. 01:15:11
That's good. Thanks for seeing. 01:15:19
All right, one last update. 01:15:21
So in my communication with the League of American Bicyclists, they did say that they have training. 01:15:24
Opportunities for cities to like just have staff and buy commissions just come together and receive trainings to guide us through 01:15:32
a. 01:15:38
Get into a much higher status from bronze to maybe, you know, silver or gold. So that is something that I'm waiting on an e-mail 01:15:45
with details on how to get signed up for such trainings. But it comes at a cost that the city has to pay. 01:15:54
And it's, you know, they described it as. 01:16:04
Just transportation and time for them here. 01:16:07
So that's one they come in to do the training. It's a 2 day training. 01:16:11
So something they offer to cities? 01:16:16
Another thing, also from the League of American Bicyclists, is they could. 01:16:19
Have a virtual call with us. 01:16:25
Which we could probably have on our next meeting. 01:16:28
Just have them go through our scores and the reason why we're still bronze with us, that will be free, but they can't be here in 01:16:32
person. So I noticed too that like. 01:16:38
Our PDF scorecard didn't seem to be updated for this last go around. I don't know if it's because of the the IT was still bronze 01:16:46
so they just kept the other one up. But I can follow up on that as well. Yeah, but I think that be a good agenda item. Just let us 01:16:51
know if it is and we can plan for you. I will update the team though on probably the cost involved in having the real train. Would 01:16:57
you be interested in having a training? 01:17:03
Maybe next year. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about it and like what we would expect to learn. Two days is a lot. Yes, it is a lot 01:17:10
that anyone that this isn't their full time job to do. I think so, yeah. My only concern, they said the outcome is usually pretty 01:17:17
good because they try to just have all of us in a space where we can interact and just go through stuff. 01:17:24
More than just discussing the scorecard and also they recommend during that time to have a bike ride in the city. 01:17:33
Just to have a good idea of what exists and also have them make recommendations because they don't live here. So they'll really 01:17:41
that's the reason why it's all two days because they spend time right in the city even before the time that you have to meet and 01:17:47
write as a group. 01:17:52
OK, with enough notice, we could probably plan for that. Yeah, sure. Can I, can I ask a couple questions on that? Yeah, sure. 01:18:00
Another they're doing this on they're willing to do this on a city by city basis. 01:18:11
Would they be willing to do it on a regional basis? 01:18:17
In other words, having what if, what if Mag headed this up. 01:18:20
And the cities, when you bring in Orem and you bring in all the cities and those who are actually doing the applications, the 01:18:24
staff, yeah, we're doing those applications can be trained and then. 01:18:31
Each of the cities I think it's just us taking advantage of in this area, but there's also UVU and BYU I think are bike friendly 01:18:38
campuses. And then there's a couple businesses too, so you could just invite them all. That's a good idea. 01:18:45
I'd ask them, but I sounds like a very good idea. Something that would be worth having though. 01:18:53
And then if some of us couldn't make it, there still be like critical mass of people to. 01:19:02
I didn't have someone come out and like, three of us said we'd be there and only one can make it, you know? And it's like, OK, 01:19:07
that's not anyone's time, but if you can get a few other entities involved, that could be good. That would be good. 01:19:13
Thank you. 01:19:19
All right. Next meeting is on December 17th. That's scheduled. But for now meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thanks. 01:19:20
Did you see a Jordan? 01:19:35
Thank you. 01:19:38
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
And we'll get started as 534. And we are going to kick off the Bicycle Advisory Commission meeting for September 17th, 2024. 00:00:02
We will start with public comments, so anyone here that wants to speak about something that's not on the agenda today, you're 00:00:12
welcome to come up now. 00:00:16
OK. We'll move right into business items now. Item 3.1 is the Bicycle Advisory Commission bylaws. So Anthony Fletcher's gone 00:00:22
through a revised draft and provided that to us. And I think there was even a few copies there for anyone in the audience that 00:00:29
wanted to look at them. But Anthony, you can go ahead and take us through this and then we'll take appropriate action. 00:00:36
So. 00:00:47
My name is Anthony, as you are now and I would want to make this pretty quick. 00:00:48
I have left the, you know, all the changes that we made in track changes, so you know exactly what was changed based on our 00:00:55
previous discussion. 00:01:00
We went through all the bylaws thoroughly during our last meeting. We made a few changes here and there. 00:01:06
And then we decided that I will update this. 00:01:14
And to move to the next level would have to accept all these changes based on what we discussed. I don't know if you want to 00:01:19
really go through every bit of these changes. 00:01:25
But. 00:01:32
Everything was noted and affected in this one. So if there are no feather. 00:01:33
Changes to the bylaws based on the comments and review. 00:01:39
That we had to, you know. 00:01:46
The things that we have to change in this one, then we should be good to. 00:01:49
Make a motion on accepting. 00:01:54
This as a bylaw, yeah, So hopefully everyone had a chance to skim through that and look at that. If there's any comments, let's do 00:01:57
that now. And then I also, I didn't want to conflate to business items, but I also don't want to approve this and then talk about 00:02:02
a name change when it would impact this so we could. 00:02:07
Maybe discuss that as we go through this as well, because those would be some additional red line changes. 00:02:14
Right. And if we're going to be discussing both at the same time, I'd like to give a little background based on what happened last 00:02:20
time we did talk about. 00:02:24
Possibly changing the name to be more inclusive. So the few names that came up during our discussion was put in the staff report 00:02:29
just to make it easier for us when we meet today to discuss and make a decision. I did check also with the Bike Friendly 00:02:35
Communities America and they're excited about even the name change because they're thinking of making things a lot more inclusive. 00:02:41
So if we're doing this. 00:02:47
Name change with the aim of you know, still making our communities more bike friendly and you know, being more inclusive to have 00:02:54
all these other new things that are popping up, you know the electric scooters and all these things be part of the things that we 00:03:01
plan for then it's a good thing so. 00:03:07
We are clear to change the name if we want to. It doesn't have to be bike only like a BAC as we have it right now. Once we have a 00:03:15
bike focus, active transportation focus in there, they're fine. 00:03:22
Got it. OK. So with that context, we can kind of talk about both as we go through, but I know a few of you had some comments on 00:03:32
the content here and then we can talk. 00:03:35
What would be the most appropriate name for this Commission? 00:03:39
Yeah, I just had a question about the section Article 4 Membership, Section 1 composition. 00:03:43
As maybe pedantic, but it says the BC membership shall consist of two at large members. 00:03:53
Is that shall like an inclusive or like optional? We can have two at large members or. 00:04:00
Or shall as in mandated. We need to have like we'll always need to have, right? Yeah. 00:04:08
Yeah, sorry. 00:04:16
Yeah, the question is about the wording for. 00:04:18
BAC membership shall consist of two at large members. I'm just wondering if like future proofing, if we don't have two at large 00:04:21
members, are we still a valid Commission? 00:04:27
Can I respond, Chair? 00:04:35
Yeah, OK. 00:04:36
So the wording was shall just to make sure that we're having some expertise outside of residence in there. So currently we have 00:04:37
Jim Price with over 25, you know, years of experience in. 00:04:45
Anything that BAC is about right and more and Chris will see who's also in the same field professionally. 00:04:53
So when their terms are over, we're hoping to still have people like them to help us move. OK, yeah, that makes sense. But well, 00:05:01
welcome to change it if you would. I think what you were saying is. 00:05:06
Are we required to always have two out of city? 00:05:13
At large members? Or is it just an option to have those two and someday we might go back to just having 5 Vineyard residents 00:05:16
someday? 00:05:20
So maybe we want to word it that. 00:05:25
The membership The two at large members are. 00:05:29
Or maybe that green line the BAC membership may consist of may include two at large members that reside anywhere in the state, but 00:05:33
it's not a requirement to have. 00:05:38
Two at large members outside of the city. I think it's also fine if it's like a directive that we should sneak out. I mean, if 00:05:45
they ever leave us, which you won't ever leave us. 00:05:50
But if you do ever leave us, then I think it's a good directive to seek out expertise where we can find it. But you also don't 00:05:57
want to be like in violation if you just have 5 billion people helping out, so. 00:06:02
So we'll change that to May. 00:06:08
Thank you. And the green part there. And I'm also just circling all the BIC references because that could change the name here. 00:06:12
Can I make a suggestion on that as well while we're making some changes, Anthony and Mr. Chair? 00:06:19
Is since we're talking about at large members and the purpose of at large members. 00:06:27
Why we have that, we're not referencing that anywhere in the in the bylaws. Do we have some mission statement or something else 00:06:33
that references that why you would want to have at large members? 00:06:39
With the just, yeah, it's not real detailed, but just at large, remember Spring experiment. 00:06:46
But I don't read green for some reason. I only read red. 00:06:55
But if you want to elaborate on that, we can add some more. No, I don't think we need to elaborate. I think it's just it's it 00:07:02
should be explicit what the purpose of those at large members are. 00:07:07
Martina, Mike, you have any comments on the changes? 00:07:14
No, I think it's broad enough to to where if we do change the name. 00:07:19
This still fits for the vast majority of what's in here. 00:07:25
Agreed. 00:07:28
Yeah, some of the references to bicycles are quickly followed by. 00:07:30
And other forms of active transportation. 00:07:33
And we can still have goals to be diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:07:39
Kind of encompasses others, but. 00:07:43
Martinez, do you have thoughts? Do we need to elaborate on what Diamond is or is that something that's known across the board for 00:07:46
this one? 00:07:50
In particular, there's some set standards from. 00:07:55
Maybe we could add in according to was it League of American Cyclists or something like that? 00:07:59
Yeah, so I'm looking at Section 2. 00:08:06
2-2 You see that, Anthony? 00:08:12
I think just it's clarity on. 00:08:15
Diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:08:19
According to. 00:08:21
Yeah, League of American Bicyclists. 00:08:25
OK. Are there any other tiers or awards or for like pedestrian friendly or? 00:08:36
Active transportation, so that that could be something to consider once we if we change the name. 00:08:43
And you said there are some that are focused on pedestrian? 00:08:52
There are multiple tiers within. 00:08:59
The what are the? 00:09:02
Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond for the League of Cyclists, but are there other there are other organizations that have 00:09:06
awards for pedestrian friendliness. 00:09:13
Delete. 00:09:23
Do we want to include that? 00:09:25
We're aiming for these kinds of awards as well, or just limited to the. I think we can say like, yeah, we have a goal of becoming 00:09:28
that, but also pursuing other similar awards or something like that that could. 00:09:35
Leave it open to. 00:09:42
Top scootering destination or something like that, I don't know. 00:09:45
Whatever we want to aspire to. 00:09:50
OK. Any other comments on the changes before we talk about the name? 00:09:53
OK, sorry. Go ahead. 00:10:04
It's a little funky. The eyes and ears part provide a venue for public input and assistance as eyes and ears for issues pertaining 00:10:07
to active transportation in the city. 00:10:12
Yes, I think it. 00:10:17
Yeah, we can. We can reword that if we want to. But basically this Commission. 00:10:19
Is listening to the community and we're out there in the community seeing if there's any issues, so if we want to. 00:10:24
Provide a venue for public input and assistant. 00:10:33
You just take out as eyes and ears for and just assistance for issues pertaining to. 00:10:36
OK. 00:10:44
Yeah, so that would reread provide a venue for public input and assistance. 00:10:48
For issues pertaining to active transportation in the city. 00:10:54
Does that read better Martina for you? 00:10:58
Did you get that, Anthony? I've got my notes jotted down here that I can hand to you afterwards as well. 00:11:05
OK if there's no other comments on actual content changes. 00:11:14
One of the things that we talked about last time in regards to the name change was incorporating the term active transportation. I 00:11:20
checked with Jim, he said that's pretty common. 00:11:25
In Wasatch Front Regional Council has 1, Salt Lake County has one that's called the active transportation Commission. They don't 00:11:32
even say advisory Commission, it's just ATC for a few of these. So that's that's pretty standard. Now we don't have to follow any 00:11:38
of those standards, but I'd love your input and thoughts on what you think this should be named and. 00:11:44
How we can? 00:11:52
Basically, appeal to a broader audience than just those that are bicycling. 00:11:54
Yep, my my only thought on it was we could go even more generic and just be like active vineyard or something. But maybe people 00:12:01
think we'll do yoga in the park If we do that and I'm not comfortable doing you'll be in the. 00:12:08
I think actual transportation Commission is fine. 00:12:16
Yeah. 00:12:20
Thank you. Any comments I make on that. Or is it the active transportation is a commonly used terminology in the in the 00:12:28
profession? 00:12:32
And it's well understood by transportation people. 00:12:36
It's not as well understood by the lay public yet, but it's. 00:12:42
Gaining traction. 00:12:47
And having served on the ATC. 00:12:49
In Salt Lake County for many years. 00:12:53
It's gaining traction up there. It'd be nice to see it gain traction down here. 00:12:57
Do we all feel like that encompasses what we're going for here to include, you know? 00:13:05
Walking, running, cycling, rolling. 00:13:09
Scooters, all that kind of stuff. 00:13:13
Yeah, what would be an example of a passive transportation? 00:13:15
I guess getting pulled in a wagon, pushed in a stroller. 00:13:21
Yeah, I don't know. 00:13:27
Yeah, being driven in a car, I guess so. 00:13:30
Vehicle. 00:13:34
OK. 00:13:36
Is everyone OK then with active transportation Commission? 00:13:40
This would all be subject to approval by the City Council, I'm assuming with the OK. So these are just recommendations that we 00:13:44
that would be making okay. 00:13:48
And yeah, you can let us know when we would present these and we can make sure at least one of us is there to kind of speak 00:13:53
through some of the reasoning. 00:13:56
We have a member of the Council here today, so thanks for being here. 00:14:00
So yeah, let's just note then if we do change to or recommend Active Transportation Commission. 00:14:06
That. 00:14:12
BAC and Bicycle Advisory Commission would need to be updated throughout this. 00:14:14
Document. 00:14:19
Looks like they're on. 00:14:23
Most every page, most every section has something. 00:14:25
That refers to that. 00:14:28
Certainly have copies of bylaws from like Salt Lake County or other active transportation commissions to see. 00:14:31
How we would compare? 00:14:37
And if we're missing anything or that's a good idea. 00:14:39
They should all be. If they're like, truly approved by cities, then they should all be public. 00:14:43
But I think that. 00:14:54
That speaks to something else that I'd love to chat about more. It's just like kind of benchmarking and partnering with other 00:14:56
like. 00:14:59
What's Orem doing that's going well or that we want to make sure we don't do or Yeah, that's always a good idea. 00:15:02
So, Mike, are you proposing another iteration of this or? 00:15:14
Uh, no, I. 00:15:19
I think just to compare and contrast, I guess what we've got versus what else is out there. 00:15:21
Yeah, I think that's so. 00:15:26
OK, well. 00:15:32
Let's do, let's, let's do this then. I think it'd be good for us to put forward a recommendation to the council on what we've got 00:15:33
here just for some quick updates. But I think maybe for our future meeting, just benchmarking in general and maybe we could pull 00:15:41
in some like regional best practices. Jordan, and I'll be a part of it as well, is going to the Connected Communities Summit 00:15:48
tomorrow and Thursday. And I think there's some sessions that are actually on that and like resources. So maybe you'll have some. 00:15:55
Bring back to us. 00:16:03
All right, so on items 3-1 and three, two are there is there any more discussion that you want to have before we? 00:16:05
Make a motions for Anthony to pull this together to present to council. 00:16:12
I like to add, add that we don't need to present the bylaws to council. That would be we'll make a motion here and it becomes, you 00:16:21
know, it goes into effect right away, but the name would need a recommendation to council. Yeah, got it. 00:16:28
OK. So we only need a motion on the bylaw update? 00:16:39
Under bylaw, just to recommend the name change. OK, so we'll keep those separate. So let's do the bylaws first if someone's got a 00:16:43
motion to. 00:16:47
Make the updates as we discussed today and I have on the screen the recommendation from staff. 00:16:53
There we go. 00:17:02
Yeah. So I moved to adopt the revised bylaw document for the BAC, potentially AATC now. 00:17:06
Oh, I see. OK. 00:17:18
Condition with the condition that we are going to update the name to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:17:20
And the. 00:17:27
Handful of other changes that we've talked about today. 00:17:28
Anthony has had enough info for you on that so we got. 00:17:31
Motion by Jordan. Do I have a second for that second, Jim, with the second all in favor? 00:17:35
OK. Thank you for that. 00:17:44
And now just to keep that separate business item 3.2, the Bicycle Advisory Commission name change, we will, this is about 00:17:47
recommending a name change. So if I can get a motion, we we talked about the Active Transportation Commission, but if you have a 00:17:52
motion for something else, you're welcome to make that as well. 00:17:57
Yes. 00:18:09
I moved to recommend the your Microsoft. 00:18:16
I move to recommend the name change for the Bicycle Advisory Commission to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:18:21
All right. That was Martina. Thank you. Do I have a second? A second? Hey, Mike, with the second all in favor? 00:18:29
OK. So that will be presented to council and they'll be able to choose one way or another and then we'll make sure the bylaws 00:18:36
reflect. If that's not approved, then it'll stay BAC. If not ATC. 00:18:42
So we will be moving this into the next Planning City Council meeting. So it will be in the agenda. I will be sure to send you an 00:18:48
e-mail with an update on. 00:18:53
Whatever is going to happen or need someone to speak about it, great, SO. 00:18:58
OK OK. 00:19:03
All right, we'll move to business item 3.3, the ordinance amendment about mobility devices and golf carts, and it will answer the 00:19:04
question, are golf carts active transportation? 00:19:09
OK. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. 00:19:23
If you don't know me, my name is Brian I. 00:19:27
The parks director. 00:19:30
And I'm excited that we have this advisory group. I think it's super awesome and going to bring just a ton of value to Vineyard 00:19:33
that already has. 00:19:38
And I've noticed there's an increase in. 00:19:46
Electric type vehicles such as bikes, golf carts. 00:19:51
Dirt bikes, whatever it might be, lots of things throughout the city. And so I specifically want to come to you with this policy. 00:19:56
Regarding golf carts and E bikes. 00:20:06
Of. 00:20:09
How do we best regulate the usage of them in our parks? We've had a number of issues recently come up to where? 00:20:12
On recreation game nights we have golf carts that are zooming through the field. 00:20:22
In between games. 00:20:30
And there's been a lot of parents that have expressed their frustration and worry that there's going to be a potential accident. 00:20:32
There's been several close calls. And, you know, we get dirt bikes that cruise through the park or we get E bikes that go through 00:20:39
the splash pad. 00:20:46
Anyway, so we are in the process of trying to figure out how do we still allow all of these types of vehicles. 00:20:57
But regulate them in a way that we can help ensure. 00:21:03
Improve safety at parks. 00:21:08
So I kind of want to make this an open discussion. 00:21:12
But before I do that, kind of the latest of what we've talked about is with golf carts to still make it encouraging for people to 00:21:17
drive those because I think that it's beneficial to have these. 00:21:23
Alternative routes of transportation because it takes up less parking spots there's. 00:21:30
It just, it can be a lot easier for families to have golf carts to bring all their stuff they don't have to, you know, plug 00:21:37
everything from their car. 00:21:41
But the latest that we've come up with is having a standard that with golf carts, anyone that brings a golf cart to the park, they 00:21:46
would just need to park it within 10 feet of the trail or a sidewalk. So that way there's not any driving of the golf carts on the 00:21:54
field during games. 00:22:01
That way it's not any type of hazard to the kid while games are going. 00:22:09
But maybe just to start from there, I want to hear your guys's thoughts. You guys, I feel like are much more expert in this than I 00:22:14
am when it comes to knowledge of bikes and what that looks like. So what are regulations you would recommend? And then after we 00:22:21
have this discussion, I also want to know your thoughts on what could we do? 00:22:28
From a city standpoint to make our parks more bike friendly. 00:22:37
So let's first start out and just I want to hear your thoughts about what could we do to help regulate? 00:22:42
The usage of electric type vehicles. 00:22:48
Yeah, thoughts. 00:22:56
Yeah, I like the idea of just like park it within. 00:23:01
10 feet of the trail or sidewalk. 00:23:05
Do you think they would extend to like E bikes also or or only golf carts? 00:23:08
We're trying to decide. 00:23:14
Is where do we go with that? With the E bikes? Some concerns that we've had is. 00:23:18
We have limited space in between each field and so you have parents that sit on each side of the field. 00:23:26
And so when people park their bikes in between the fields, it could potentially be a barrier to people trying to walk through, 00:23:33
walk around, or they're running into parents or whatever it might be. So that's a potential concern. 00:23:40
But I'm open to your feedback on that. 00:23:49
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. So when we. 00:23:53
Take our kids to play soccer at the games. Occasionally we'll park, like you were saying, kind of in between the fields. And it's 00:23:57
a bit disruptive, to be fair. 00:24:01
I think just expanding it to say golf carts and E bikes, you should just park them along the sides. 00:24:09
And that leaves kind of flexibility for people to interpret is like, oh, well, if I have a normal bike with a trailer that I bring 00:24:18
my kids on, then I'm OK to be in the middle and I think that's fine. Or even like a smaller E bike with the trailer with kids I 00:24:24
think is also fine. I think it's more the once you get like even into the. 00:24:31
Kids writing on the back of your E bike that's. 00:24:39
Pretty substantial footprint of something to accommodate on the field. 00:24:42
Just with that, is there any concern with someone potentially stealing the bike if we? 00:24:47
By the sidewalk. That's why there's been kind of a like people want to keep it near them. 00:24:53
I mean with a golf cart, do you think pee out and. 00:25:00
But with the bike is a little bit different. 00:25:04
So I'm open to. 00:25:08
What are your thoughts on having a designated spot for these? 00:25:11
Or are we just saying free game for everybody across the? 00:25:17
Field. 00:25:23
Like a golf cart and E bike parking area, right Right. 00:25:25
Also, are we trying to find a solution for a very narrow? 00:25:30
Situation like, because I guess I'm here during soccer games, but like say a soccer game isn't on there. Are we still trying to 00:25:34
find similar regulations or rules all the time even if there's no soccer game going on? 00:25:41
I think, yes, I think it's more so an issue on game days of recreation events like high traffic general, which is kind of why it's 00:25:49
kind of a multi faceted issue, right? So I brought up this picture because I wanted to show you. So this is Grove Park. There's a 00:25:58
sidewalk that goes east West just on the north side of the field. And I would say this is where we have the most potential issues. 00:26:07
Is when we have, you know, E scooters or E bikes. 00:26:16
Typically it's young kids, it's teenagers. They go flying on this sidewalk here where you have people getting out of their cars 00:26:21
coming onto the sidewalk, or you've got this NS sidewalk here where kids are flying down and there's been. 00:26:29
Very close injuries happening right here at this corner. 00:26:38
Here just I'm sure. 00:26:43
Kind of all along. 00:26:46
That pathway. So there's been talk, you know, do we? 00:26:47
Prevent usage of. 00:26:50
Any type of electric vehicles on those two specific sidewalks. 00:26:53
Regulate that I'm not entirely. 00:26:58
I just want to get since you guys are the buying experts. 00:27:01
Of yeah. 00:27:05
We just want to find out. 00:27:07
I'm personally much more concerned about the movement of these vehicles on trails and sidewalks. And I am about where they park. 00:27:08
Like there could be a day where I'm where I'm bugged about where it's parked maybe. But like that's not, I don't know. It's it's 00:27:16
more about like, yeah, if my kids riding a scooter on a trail on a golf carts coming at them and my kid has to go off the trail 00:27:23
because that's coming by and it basically becomes like another Rd. like that. That's more what I'm concerned about regulating. 00:27:31
And I would about where it parks, but what if we had signs or something that's just for visibility for these writers, just to be 00:27:38
mindful of pedestrians or, you know, well, that was again, I'm going back to like actually on the trail, but like, I don't know if 00:27:46
you've seen these before. I think Murdoch Canal trail has some which they don't allow, like golf carts and things like that. But 00:27:53
like where you've got multi use and it's like, well, people who are walking, people who are on a skateboard, scooter, bike or. 00:28:01
Cases someone on a horse, but that could be like a cart or something like that. And it would just basically show if you're in a 00:28:09
golf cart, you yield to everyone, no one's yielding. You're the low on the low person there. And if you had a few of those signs 00:28:16
that might help. But I don't know if that solves the issue that you're that you're looking for, but I would hope that like by 00:28:24
default in that area that like people walking have priority. Maybe it's a bike dismount area maybe. 00:28:31
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. 00:28:40
Whatever approach we want to take there, I think, I think it's smart for the city though to like say we need to have some rules in 00:28:42
place to provide some safety because. 00:28:46
If someone got hurt and there's no rules in place, my guess is there's probably some liability. So well, and I'd be curious too, 00:28:51
of the close calls, what percentage of those was a 12 year old driving the golf cart versus an adult? So I don't know that it's 00:28:57
more the parking or like access, but who's actually operating the vehicle. And that I don't know if you can regulate that because 00:29:04
even even like an ATVI think you're supposed to be 16 years old. 00:29:11
Or a licensed driver and things like that, 'cause like, I think part of what makes Vineyard cool is we do have this like rural 00:29:18
heritage where people were zipping around on ATVs and things like that. I don't know if we'll ever get back to that necessarily. 00:29:24
I was talking to my wife about this. She's like, just have him make a really wide bike lanes and then everyone can use that. It's 00:29:30
like, hey, I like the sound of it. That's how like in Arizona where there's golf courses everywhere. They've got the lane for the 00:29:34
cards, but. 00:29:38
Again. 00:29:43
I think the part of the issue too is the Gulf hurts are going down the sidewalk even not necessarily the sidewalks that are 00:29:45
widened, but just sidewalks like on Center St. And then it's only wide enough for the golf cart and you're going to hopefully 00:29:50
trust a 12 year old not to hit you so. 00:29:55
Yeah. Have there, have there been like infrastructure damage at all like like those running over like sprinkler heads or like 00:30:01
things like that? Is that taking place as well? Because like I think we should think about like what, what other thing, what other 00:30:07
issues are being caused by this that we want to try to address while still allowing for like. 00:30:13
It's a fun unique thing here and like no one wants to shut it down. I just making sure that like. 00:30:21
You know, your little kid doesn't have to be. You know, the beauty of the trails is that you don't have to have your head on a 00:30:27
swivel wondering like if you're going to get hit. Like that's the whole point of a trail. So yeah, there was one incident where a 00:30:31
team. 00:30:35
In that golf cart. 00:30:39
Hit a fence. 00:30:41
Around the park and damage the fence. So that was one incident. The other one is kind of mainly more on roads we had. 00:30:43
A number of teenagers in a golf cart that we're going around the roundabout at Center St. and Main Street right as a car was 00:30:51
coming up. They weren't watching, barely dodged the car and were at the same time an E scooter went right through so. 00:30:59
Thankfully there was number injuries with that, but just given the situation we want to definitely get. 00:31:07
Can we set an age requirement for the golf carts? 00:31:15
Because if you do 16 they have to go through like drivers. 00:31:20
Permit. 00:31:26
Yeah, you could say like licensed drivers or something like that. 00:31:28
But again, I hate to be too prescriptive cuz it's like, again, let's kinda like the cool fun stuff about a golf cart is that it's 00:31:31
not a car, right? And so I don't know. 00:31:36
Good night. Hop in on that thing. 00:31:42
One of the things about and I find this interesting because as I was driving here this meeting and I saw exactly what we were 00:31:47
talking about in that field. 00:31:52
Golf carts don't belong anywhere. 00:31:59
Is the problem they don't Rd. along on the road? 00:32:03
They don't really belong on trails. 00:32:08
You know, but I sure as heck don't belong on sidewalks. 00:32:11
So where do they belong? 00:32:14
Golf carts are a different animal than E scooters and E bikes because of their size and weight. 00:32:17
And same with cars, same with ATVs. 00:32:25
Their size, weight, power is a different animal than a person on a scooter or person on that. 00:32:31
On an E bike. 00:32:37
Well, not all golf carts are created equally. There's some pretty burly golf carts. Yes, that's correct. 00:32:40
So it it, I think it kind of comes down to we need to define as a city what? 00:32:48
We're trying to do. 00:32:55
And what our goal, our values are? 00:32:57
Do we value the ability to drive a golf cart? 00:33:00
Within. 00:33:04
Off of a golf course or off off of private property? On public property? Anywhere on public property. 00:33:05
Or do we say, no, that's not an appropriate use on public property, including on trails, including on sidewalks, including on 00:33:12
streets? 00:33:15
Or do we say, yes, that is appropriate on streets because you don't allow ATVs on trails, you don't allow ATVs on sidewalks? 00:33:21
And. 00:33:32
They're more closely correlated in my mind to a golf cart. 00:33:34
In size and weight and that kind of thing. 00:33:39
That's speed, kind of, but. 00:33:44
The purpose is more correlated. 00:33:48
To that. 00:33:51
And in Utah, we've said that. 00:33:54
ATV's, if they're licensed, can be driven by a licensed driver on the street. 00:33:59
Can we do the same thing, or has that been addressed in state law in any way? 00:34:06
I'm with, with, I don't know. 00:34:10
Other. 00:34:12
Things like golf carts or other. A golf cart is a. 00:34:15
In my mind. 00:34:20
A really mellow ATV. It's electric powered. 00:34:23
Like the original side by sides. 00:34:27
So where does it really go and if it doesn't really belong anywhere? 00:34:32
Kind of that's kind of where you have to start. 00:34:38
Where does it belong and where can we allow it? I think allow. You don't want to continue to encourage people to. 00:34:41
Bring a golf cart. 00:34:50
By giving them a place to park. 00:34:53
If you're not going to give them a place to get from home to that place to park first, a route, yeah. 00:34:56
Nothing is that I think we have to be really careful about regulating, trying to regulate E bikes. 00:35:05
And this is and I'm putting this in air quotes for the record. 00:35:13
E bikes versus regular bikes. 00:35:18
I have both, I ride both. 00:35:22
I've built both. 00:35:26
I know the the capabilities and the upsides and the downsides of both. 00:35:29
The upside of an E bike is that. 00:35:34
If I leave, if I go over that hill, I know I can get back over that hill. 00:35:38
It doesn't matter how old I am or how out of shape I am, I know I can usually get back over that hill. If I do that on my road 00:35:44
bike, I'm not sure I can always get back over that. 00:35:48
So there's a purpose to E bikes and there's a there's a public policy I. 00:35:54
Quality of life issue with E bikes is we want people to leave their cars at home, right? We want them to be more active, we want 00:36:06
to give them more freedom of choice. 00:36:11
And E bikes do exactly that. 00:36:17
To a certain point, an E bikes become a problem where they're too fast, they're too heavy, they're not being written responsibly. 00:36:21
But of course, normal bikes are not written responsibly either. 00:36:26
Let's say if it wasn't an E bike that's riding out over the grass, maybe it's going to be a mountain bike. Something, not somebody 00:36:33
on a mountain bike is doing this exactly the same thing? 00:36:38
And so I think you first have to start with what are we trying to do? What are, what are our values and what do we want to allow 00:36:43
and what do we want to? 00:36:48
Encourage people to do and what we want to discourage people from doing. 00:36:54
And that's just the start. I think putting signs up is a start. My experience has been that people don't pay attention to signs. 00:36:58
Whether they see them or not. 00:37:10
They do pay attention to being ticketed. 00:37:12
Which the a sign would be a precursor. Usually a precursor. I would never want to discourage a kid. Say the ordinance would be 00:37:16
precursors, sure. I just never would have wanted to discourage a kid. 00:37:23
Even E biking to practice because the alternative is OK, dad, get in the car and drive me over there. You know, like. So yeah, we 00:37:29
got to think about the consequences with some of that unintended consequences of banning or allowing. 00:37:36
Exactly what we're what we're trying to focus on trying to figure out. 00:37:44
Same thing with E scooters as opposed to just push scooters. 00:37:52
E Scooters. 00:37:56
Heck of a lot of fun to ride. Heck of a lot more fun than push scooters. 00:37:58
And I see them everywhere and I see people flying on those and I see people without how much, which just makes me. 00:38:02
But then I say, and I see people on motorcycles, helmets and so it's the same thing but. 00:38:12
One thing I might suggest. 00:38:20
Is that the city? 00:38:23
Do some research on you know, we were talking about. 00:38:26
What the weather ATC's do? What do other cities do? 00:38:30
I'm sure that there are other cities that I'm 100% sure that there are other cities that have tried to tackle what's very same, 00:38:34
including Salt Lake City. 00:38:37
And especially with it with the E scooters and E bikes. 00:38:42
And they've been. 00:38:47
Somewhat successful in their approach. 00:38:50
But I don't think they've had to deal with. 00:38:53
Things like. 00:38:56
Golf carts yet? 00:38:58
And so. 00:39:01
That may be something, I don't know, Anthony, if I just sent a text to Dan Wayne and Mag to ask if it would be appropriate to do a 00:39:03
like a. 00:39:09
Tag study. Technical assistance study. 00:39:17
Looking at this, at this very thing. 00:39:22
And kind of help maybe the rest of the cities within. 00:39:26
Utah County or within Utah start to address this. 00:39:30
Vineyard is by far not alone. Noises everywhere. 00:39:33
Just to go off that too, there's been some regulations that other. 00:39:40
Cities that put in regarding the type of E bike so like those that you know can go home. 00:39:44
Right. So that's kind of one potential thing that we can do, but I mean there's a million situations that. 00:39:54
A good looking for saying it. 00:40:05
But this has been helpful to get your guys thoughts on this. So well I had one other thing. So without. 00:40:16
By default, like carving out like a full throated endorsement of golf carts, right? By doing some of these things, I think we can 00:40:25
address some of the issues by like anything that's concrete there on this screen. What if that was a? 00:40:31
Dismount pedestrian only, wheelchair only. 00:40:40
Right. And so it's like I'm not riding my bike through there. 00:40:43
While people are, you know, while games are in session or something like that, it's really just for people walking or using 00:40:47
wheelchairs or. 00:40:51
That's all it's for. On the concrete like that might be something to look at. 00:40:55
And then the other thing I was thinking of on the trails. 00:41:01
Again, enforcement. I don't know if you'd ever do this, but. 00:41:04
If you said there's a 15 mile an hour limit on the trails, is that OK? So like, maybe making that known? Because again, like a 00:41:07
responsible mom driving a golf cart 5 miles an hour on the trail doesn't really like concern me that much. Maybe someday it will. 00:41:14
If there's, you know, 500 of them, who knows? 00:41:21
But it's it's the people like tearing around going real fast that that that's where dangerous things are going to happen. So. 00:41:29
Maybe it's just education, like, especially if there's stuff already in place, Maybe it's just like, hey, let's double down on 00:41:36
this and make sure that that's not a problem. 00:41:40
Just a couple thoughts. There's the other. 00:41:44
MM goes over 15 miles an hour on his bike. 00:41:48
Just don't tell on me. I know they're trying to watch on Murdoch. 00:41:52
I will say, and this is not bragging, but this is because I was being chased by a lightning storm coming down Provo Canyon on my 00:41:58
road bike. I hit 35, which for me is slow. I mean for me is fast. 00:42:03
For the professionals, that's you're not really going very fast. 00:42:14
Regular bikes can go just as fast as your bikes in certain situations. E bikes make it easier for people who are less experienced 00:42:19
to go faster. Is it kind of where it causes problems? 00:42:25
One of the things that I might also suggest here is that in addition to signage, it may be some physical barriers. And that seems 00:42:32
to work really well on where you've got where you've got limited access or yeah, like like the the boardwalk, I don't know if 00:42:38
you've seen that. It's got a little bollard in the middle. There's no golf carts that go across that. 00:42:45
One other thought I had to especially if we want to address those that don't have licenses but still want to drive. 00:42:53
If the city did a program, maybe even a revenue generating opportunity to say, hey, you got to go through this course and you have 00:43:00
to get a permit, right? And it's just for the use in, in within Vineyard so that if something does happen and they're not 00:43:07
permitted or they don't have the permit or whatever, right? At least we're trying to educate and be proactive on that front and 00:43:14
explain the rules as opposed to just letting them run around wherever, right? And then hoping that they don't get an accident. 00:43:21
Awesome. Yeah, I think that's great. 00:43:30
There's a sorry, I was going to add two more things. So on BYU campus, you can't ride your bike during the class breaks, which I 00:43:34
think works really well because there's a ton of people walking there, but you can any other time. So I wonder if just during 00:43:39
events we just have a sign says walk your bike and just put it at like. 00:43:44
The North End of that. 00:43:51
Because if you show up on a Tuesday at 3:00 PM to that park, you can ride your bike around there no problem. The other one is that 00:43:54
there's a city in Georgia called Peachtree City, I think, that has a ton of golf carts, like everywhere. Like people write them to 00:44:01
high school people write them to. 00:44:08
Go see grandma, whatever. And it doesn't seem like their trust system is that much wider than ours. So I'd be curious to see like 00:44:16
how they actually manage it because they have like a dedicated trail system and everybody just uses it for golf carts. And maybe 00:44:22
they just have like enough people only doing golf carts and not kids biking. But I would imagine that little kids ride their bikes 00:44:28
on those trails also. And so I'd be curious to see how they. 00:44:34
Actually manage that if they really do have like separated infrastructure for golf carts versus bikes versus walking or. 00:44:41
They just have a culture of. 00:44:48
Golf carts actually yield to everybody or I don't know, but it's the same in Arizona to in certain spots. 00:44:51
The golf carts yield to the bikes, but in the bike path is much larger and it has a picture of a golf cart and a bike. So the golf 00:44:56
cart just yields to the bike. It's one of the one of the first issues and that's a great comment about the width. 00:45:05
Is there actually width for a bike and a golf cart to share a path safely? 00:45:14
Typically in the in the 8 to 10 feet. 00:45:21
Of trail that we have in most of the cities in Utah, the answer that's an easy no. It's pretty cool. 00:45:24
Golf carts are just way too big. 00:45:32
But it could be like Main Street, Center Street, where you got the bike image on the far right lane you could put a golf cart. 00:45:35
Logo there too. 00:45:41
Force everybody on the road. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of like unused space on our roads that even cars don't occupy 00:45:43
the median for 95% of the time. 00:45:48
There you go. I mean repainting our Rd. 00:45:55
Inside and a golf cart laying on the outside. 00:46:00
And the golf cart lane protects the bike lane from the traffic and the 12 year old driving the golf. 00:46:03
Just wear a helmet. Yeah, Transition now into. 00:46:10
What can the Vineyard City do to make our parks more bike? 00:46:13
I think one one thing is that you have you currently have bike parking, right? 00:46:24
They have places for people to lock, put their bikes and lock them. 00:46:29
We have some, there could be more closer to the fields I think probably. 00:46:35
And if you're playing way down here? 00:46:44
Bike up here and that's that's pretty far to. 00:46:46
So I don't know if there's, you know, for bike parking by these or something. 00:46:51
I feel like routes would be. 00:46:58
Helpful. 00:47:01
As in like. 00:47:02
Like visually? 00:47:05
Designatings. 00:47:09
Like a route or something. 00:47:11
Like with a trail map? Yeah, yeah. Like this is the recommended route for bike users or something like that. 00:47:13
Which we'd probably have to do some study on, like OK, this is. 00:47:23
But yeah, it's kind of the idea of like safe routes to school, but like safe routes to our city amenities like. 00:47:28
Parks. 00:47:34
That could be good. 00:47:37
And are we thinking like, hey, you can ride your bike on the grass or is it mainly for cemented areas or? 00:47:41
I don't know what other options there are. 00:47:53
For big events, which I don't know if that falls underneath Parks and Recreation, but. 00:47:58
We had talked about. 00:48:04
Using the tennis courts, pickleball courts is like a. 00:48:06
More safe, secure bike parking if it's like. 00:48:10
Like that 911 event that we just did, or the Heritage Days where it's really big. 00:48:14
We threw out the ideas, but we didn't really execute, you know, in time for some of that stuff. But yeah. 00:48:18
In future years, I think that could be a good one to look at too. 00:48:25
You're talking to the right guy. He's the he's all in charge of all these things because I know parking can be tight. 00:48:29
For like just a regular Saturday morning events, but I think you guys do a pretty good job and. 00:48:37
It's not like a deal breaker, but for like heritage days, there's probably some people that don't show up. 00:48:42
Because parking so bad or it's so hard, or there's some people. 00:48:47
That have to drive and don't have the so like the people that don't need to drive, you know, giving them an easy, easy way. I 00:48:51
think that's one one thing that could help. That's more event management though, than like infrastructure for the park. 00:48:57
I think I'm just like a normal no event, no programming going on at the park. 00:49:06
Things are pretty good, I agree. 00:49:12
Maybe the, maybe the. 00:49:15
Bike parking at. 00:49:17
At Grove Park is not the best in the world, but. 00:49:20
Like most of the time people just kind of pull up and. 00:49:23
Park right next to the bench or next to whatever they're doing there and. 00:49:27
It's not like we're at capacity on a. 00:49:32
Normal day or whatever, I think it's really the event. 00:49:37
Where there's a ton of people or even like after the. 00:49:40
The parade. 00:49:47
Down at the Sunset Beach Park and around there seemed like there was. 00:49:50
Yeah, just kind of confusion around like, yeah, I rode my bike here and that's great and now I just leave it here or. 00:49:55
Like what do I do? 00:50:02
And so people kind of just do what they assume is best or assume is acceptable. 00:50:04
So yeah, I think having. 00:50:10
I think having a strategy around how we're going to handle bikes or bigger events, which. 00:50:12
Would be great if we can staff that all the time. 00:50:18
If not at least having kind of a designated area, I think we could. 00:50:21
Is it likely that those with E bikes? 00:50:26
Feel comfortable even just locking their bike into a bike rack. 00:50:29
Or is that not? 00:50:32
I don't ride an ebike, but I ride a bike that I still wouldn't lock up to to. 00:50:38
I don't, but that's just me and I'm OCD about it. But yeah, yeah. 00:50:44
So something to consider. Funny because I'm just the opposite. I have a. 00:50:49
I wouldn't. 00:50:54
I wouldn't lock up my road bike. 00:50:55
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind writing with a big heavy chain on my E bike. And I've done that because I don't want to carry that 00:50:58
chain, that big heavy chain on my road bike anywhere. 00:51:04
I think I think generally people, especially people with like maybe in my demographic, if you have kids and you have an E bike are 00:51:10
pretty LAX about like even locking their bike up anywhere, which I think is probably a cultural shift that we should change. I 00:51:17
think one thing that we could do to try to incentivize that behavior of like, you know, you should like lock up your bike or know 00:51:24
where it is is. 00:51:30
Work on the bike registration stuff. 00:51:38
Just to kind of shed awareness to like somebody might steal your bike. Like we live in a nice city, but somebody might still come 00:51:40
steal your bike. And so let's get it registered and let's have a plan in place of. 00:51:47
Where you going to park your bike when it's out in public and. 00:51:54
And whatever. 00:51:57
Yeah. But yeah, to summarize my thoughts on, I think the parks are great and that's evidenced by like, just like how many people 00:51:58
ride their bike there. Like we do a pretty good job, but if you got more places to sit. 00:52:04
Like a cement pad that has a bench and a bike rack and a few of those around, like close to the trail so that you can kind of 00:52:11
spectate like, I think that would go a long way. And did your question center on events or just like parks in general? 00:52:18
OK. 00:52:26
OK this isn't a park, but I guess the park strip next to bus stations if we could get like a bike rack there. 00:52:29
That'd be cool. I've seen people. 00:52:38
Like or where the like the junior high and elementary bus stops are because yeah, some of the kids. 00:52:40
Yeah, they want a bike or scooter to the bus stop. I know the city did a good job out there. They put one just right here. Yeah, 00:52:51
that was really smart, like, and I think they could probably use that in other places. It's probably tough though, because maybe 00:52:57
the school district arbitrarily changes pick up spots too, so I get it. But where it makes sense, like I know some of them are 00:53:02
near like detention ponds and things like that where it's just kind of unused area. You could throw some racks and things there. 00:53:08
Well this is great. Thanks for your time and forgiving. 00:53:15
Feedback So I'll definitely do more research into this and work with Holden. Who? 00:53:20
And have more to say. What happens on the streets? Yeah. 00:53:27
Just, I'm sure this will kind of be an ongoing conversation. We'll find all the solutions in one night, but. 00:53:33
Maybe we did, yes. 00:53:39
Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming. And like, yeah, I think overall, like they're fun as long as people are safe, 00:53:42
right? And I think that's all you're trying to go for. So that's good. 00:53:47
I have one more thing for the park because I am long winded. Sometimes the bike pump nozzle, the rubber in there wears out, 00:53:52
especially along the Murdoch trail. Like all of those are kind of worthless because the the rubber doesn't really work very well, 00:53:58
especially over like winter. It just gets like dried up and doesn't seal properly. So what's the best thing? Like if someone sees 00:54:04
that just do the like the report a concern on the OK. 00:54:10
What if there's like a sticker or something we could put on those like if it's not working like? 00:54:18
Scan this QR code and yeah, that might message Anthony Jenkins. Yeah, yeah, here's Anthony. 00:54:23
Sure, I've got. 00:54:30
I can't do anything about it, but but that's not just for bike stuff. Like if you saw a swing was broken, like you'd probably want 00:54:32
to know that stuff, right? 00:54:36
You better leave before we give you more feedback. 00:54:43
OK, thanks. 00:54:52
Anthony, that, that, that was a business item, but there's no action needed on that one, right? It was more just kind of talking 00:54:55
through. 00:54:57
OK. 00:55:01
So the conversation we had had before this presentation was he'd take the comments and possibly. 00:55:03
Have them all presented as so our comments could be put into motion. 00:55:10
To him to be treated as a recommendation to counsel. 00:55:16
So we still have to make a motion. 00:55:21
Before we end that. 00:55:23
That business item? 00:55:26
So, OK, so we could we could ask for someone to make a motion. 00:55:28
For Brian to incorporate our feedback into the code changes that they are recommending. OK. 00:55:32
Well, yeah, I know none of us concisely did that, but you were taking some notes here and it's recorded so you can go back. But 00:55:39
anyone want to make a motion so moved? 00:55:43
Yeah. So Jordans making a motion that Anthony set out there, anyone second? 00:55:49
I second it. All right, Martin, with a second all in favor. 00:55:57
Aye, OK. 00:56:01
Right, you've got our you've got our blessing to go forward with that then. 00:56:04
OK. All right. We'll now move on to staff, Commission and committee reports. Let's start with the Commission. We'll just go down 00:56:08
the line and see if there's anything that you wanted to share, anything top of mind. 00:56:13
I just had one. Maybe it's a stretch because I think part of what we're trying to do is connect all the trails, not just with 00:56:19
inventory but other parts of the county. Is there any way to work with Provo to like redo that Provo River Trail? It is insanely 00:56:27
horrible. Well, I don't know if anybody's ridden it from like the mouth of Provo Canyon back. Like there's no more markings 00:56:34
anymore. They painted them all out so people just walk wherever they ride bikes wherever. 00:56:41
I don't know. I'm just like going through the city itself. Do we have like a special favor or somebody we know that we could talk 00:56:50
about that? 00:56:53
So. 00:56:58
Jordan Jordan's gonna see some bike Provo people and I will too tomorrow. And it's to the point where like I try not to go down 00:56:59
that trail anymore. I it's insanely horrible. My mountain bike if I do a lot. 00:57:05
For some of the like the root because they flattened some of the root areas out, but it's still just another redoing Some of the 00:57:11
underpasses too like by the river and under. 00:57:15
Widening them a little bit, but it's very. 00:57:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't know the answer on that or somebody has a phone number I could call every day until somebody does 00:57:24
something. But yeah, I think if I just look at that and zoom out a little bit like you're basically just saying regional trail 00:57:29
infrastructure and making sure that. 00:57:33
What we have adds to the value of that and everyone else is also trying to keep their regional trails. 00:57:39
I like that, yeah, it's more PC wave approaching it. 00:57:45
I have a name and a number. If you would like that I would love that. 00:57:50
Happy shared with that I would I would suggest that your first. 00:57:54
There are actually 3. 00:57:59
Different agencies that should be in contact with the city should be in contact with. 00:58:02
1st is going to be MAG. 00:58:09
They're going to be Calvin Clark. 00:58:11
I was doing what I used to do. 00:58:14
Or at least took my spot. 00:58:17
This is something actually that. 00:58:25
It's funny bring this up. 00:58:28
In the, in the, in the context of things that we're doing, these are, these are generational changes, these are, these are long 00:58:30
term changes to the infrastructure. 00:58:34
It always takes a long time, a lot longer than we'd like. 00:58:38
A lot longer than than anybody wants, and they're always more expensive than anybody wants. 00:58:42
But if they're done right. 00:58:49
Than they're going to be done right for a very long time. 00:58:51
And that's one of the reasons that I would encourage. 00:58:55
Connection first with mag #1 because Calvin has expertise in this, he has contacts. 00:58:59
Between all the cities and the county and UW and everybody who would be a shareholder in doing something like that. 00:59:08
And two, because MAG is a Funding Agency, they bring a lot of money to the table. 00:59:16
For reconstruct, constructing and reconstructing trails. In fact, the reconstruction of the Pearl River Trail along University 00:59:22
Ave. 00:59:27
Was funded by MAG OK. 00:59:32
And. 00:59:37
That one still has paint and and and 3rd paint is they'll have to talk offline about paint. Just as long as it gets a smooth 00:59:40
surface. Like you look at Murdoch, that's a great trail, even though there's really no paint on it, but it's still smooth, it's 00:59:45
wide enough. 00:59:51
You get on that purple river trail and there's like gaps, like, I don't know, it's yeah, that's maintenance issue. Small child 00:59:58
could fall in one of those. Yeah. Same with with Jordan Trail. It's it's a. 01:00:03
It's a maintenance issue. 01:00:10
And the third one will be Utah County, because they're all. 01:00:12
That's good. 01:00:16
But yeah, I like that. And I think if you if you chat with Matt, give us an update next time because I think what Vineyard wants 01:00:18
to do, we've got. 01:00:23
You know, the trail to from my neighborhood to Grove Park is not going to be part of a regional trail network, but along the lake 01:00:28
like that, that fits in and that should all be part of a cohesive network, right? So I think that's that's good. 01:00:35
Jim, do you have anything? 01:00:45
I feel like I've said more than I should have. 01:00:48
All right, well, if you do have things, feel free to speak up. 01:00:52
One thing that I just wanted to bring up and Nassim actually did a report a concern on this. There's a there's a couple places in 01:00:56
the city where. 01:01:00
The trails will dead end into like a park strip, but I mean it's not the end of the world. You can turn right and go over to 01:01:07
someones driveway and down. But you know, if you're in a wheelchair or you know, rollerblading or roller skating like it, it might 01:01:13
be a little more disruptive than you know, like on a bike. So I'm just identifying some of those areas. I don't think that's like 01:01:20
the highest priority, but I think it's probably good to have on some. 01:01:27
Plan somewhere, you know, if there's, because I think they're probably fairly inexpensive projects too. So if there's just a list 01:01:34
of like, hey, if we've got budget at the end of the year, you know, we could. 01:01:39
Add that additional. 01:01:44
Sidewalk or trail that connects it to the road or you know, grind the curb down South. It's an ADA ramp or whatever it might be. 01:01:46