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Event transcript
And we'll get started as 534. And we are going to kick off the Bicycle Advisory Commission meeting for September 17th, 2024. 00:00:02
We will start with public comments, so anyone here that wants to speak about something that's not on the agenda today, you're 00:00:12
welcome to come up now. 00:00:16
OK. We'll move right into business items now. Item 3.1 is the Bicycle Advisory Commission bylaws. So Anthony Fletcher's gone 00:00:22
through a revised draft and provided that to us. And I think there was even a few copies there for anyone in the audience that 00:00:29
wanted to look at them. But Anthony, you can go ahead and take us through this and then we'll take appropriate action. 00:00:36
So. 00:00:47
My name is Anthony, as you are now and I would want to make this pretty quick. 00:00:48
I have left the, you know, all the changes that we made in track changes, so you know exactly what was changed based on our 00:00:55
previous discussion. 00:01:00
We went through all the bylaws thoroughly during our last meeting. We made a few changes here and there. 00:01:06
And then we decided that I will update this. 00:01:14
And to move to the next level would have to accept all these changes based on what we discussed. I don't know if you want to 00:01:19
really go through every bit of these changes. 00:01:25
But. 00:01:32
Everything was noted and affected in this one. So if there are no feather. 00:01:33
Changes to the bylaws based on the comments and review. 00:01:39
That we had to, you know. 00:01:46
The things that we have to change in this one, then we should be good to. 00:01:49
Make a motion on accepting. 00:01:54
This as a bylaw, yeah, So hopefully everyone had a chance to skim through that and look at that. If there's any comments, let's do 00:01:57
that now. And then I also, I didn't want to conflate to business items, but I also don't want to approve this and then talk about 00:02:02
a name change when it would impact this so we could. 00:02:07
Maybe discuss that as we go through this as well, because those would be some additional red line changes. 00:02:14
Right. And if we're going to be discussing both at the same time, I'd like to give a little background based on what happened last 00:02:20
time we did talk about. 00:02:24
Possibly changing the name to be more inclusive. So the few names that came up during our discussion was put in the staff report 00:02:29
just to make it easier for us when we meet today to discuss and make a decision. I did check also with the Bike Friendly 00:02:35
Communities America and they're excited about even the name change because they're thinking of making things a lot more inclusive. 00:02:41
So if we're doing this. 00:02:47
Name change with the aim of you know, still making our communities more bike friendly and you know, being more inclusive to have 00:02:54
all these other new things that are popping up, you know the electric scooters and all these things be part of the things that we 00:03:01
plan for then it's a good thing so. 00:03:07
We are clear to change the name if we want to. It doesn't have to be bike only like a BAC as we have it right now. Once we have a 00:03:15
bike focus, active transportation focus in there, they're fine. 00:03:22
Got it. OK. So with that context, we can kind of talk about both as we go through, but I know a few of you had some comments on 00:03:32
the content here and then we can talk. 00:03:35
What would be the most appropriate name for this Commission? 00:03:39
Yeah, I just had a question about the section Article 4 Membership, Section 1 composition. 00:03:43
As maybe pedantic, but it says the BC membership shall consist of two at large members. 00:03:53
Is that shall like an inclusive or like optional? We can have two at large members or. 00:04:00
Or shall as in mandated. We need to have like we'll always need to have, right? Yeah. 00:04:08
Yeah, sorry. 00:04:16
Yeah, the question is about the wording for. 00:04:18
BAC membership shall consist of two at large members. I'm just wondering if like future proofing, if we don't have two at large 00:04:21
members, are we still a valid Commission? 00:04:27
Can I respond, Chair? 00:04:35
Yeah, OK. 00:04:36
So the wording was shall just to make sure that we're having some expertise outside of residence in there. So currently we have 00:04:37
Jim Price with over 25, you know, years of experience in. 00:04:45
Anything that BAC is about right and more and Chris will see who's also in the same field professionally. 00:04:53
So when their terms are over, we're hoping to still have people like them to help us move. OK, yeah, that makes sense. But well, 00:05:01
welcome to change it if you would. I think what you were saying is. 00:05:06
Are we required to always have two out of city? 00:05:13
At large members? Or is it just an option to have those two and someday we might go back to just having 5 Vineyard residents 00:05:16
someday? 00:05:20
So maybe we want to word it that. 00:05:25
The membership The two at large members are. 00:05:29
Or maybe that green line the BAC membership may consist of may include two at large members that reside anywhere in the state, but 00:05:33
it's not a requirement to have. 00:05:38
Two at large members outside of the city. I think it's also fine if it's like a directive that we should sneak out. I mean, if 00:05:45
they ever leave us, which you won't ever leave us. 00:05:50
But if you do ever leave us, then I think it's a good directive to seek out expertise where we can find it. But you also don't 00:05:57
want to be like in violation if you just have 5 billion people helping out, so. 00:06:02
So we'll change that to May. 00:06:08
Thank you. And the green part there. And I'm also just circling all the BIC references because that could change the name here. 00:06:12
Can I make a suggestion on that as well while we're making some changes, Anthony and Mr. Chair? 00:06:19
Is since we're talking about at large members and the purpose of at large members. 00:06:27
Why we have that, we're not referencing that anywhere in the in the bylaws. Do we have some mission statement or something else 00:06:33
that references that why you would want to have at large members? 00:06:39
With the just, yeah, it's not real detailed, but just at large, remember Spring experiment. 00:06:46
But I don't read green for some reason. I only read red. 00:06:55
But if you want to elaborate on that, we can add some more. No, I don't think we need to elaborate. I think it's just it's it 00:07:02
should be explicit what the purpose of those at large members are. 00:07:07
Martina, Mike, you have any comments on the changes? 00:07:14
No, I think it's broad enough to to where if we do change the name. 00:07:19
This still fits for the vast majority of what's in here. 00:07:25
Agreed. 00:07:28
Yeah, some of the references to bicycles are quickly followed by. 00:07:30
And other forms of active transportation. 00:07:33
And we can still have goals to be diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:07:39
Kind of encompasses others, but. 00:07:43
Martinez, do you have thoughts? Do we need to elaborate on what Diamond is or is that something that's known across the board for 00:07:46
this one? 00:07:50
In particular, there's some set standards from. 00:07:55
Maybe we could add in according to was it League of American Cyclists or something like that? 00:07:59
Yeah, so I'm looking at Section 2. 00:08:06
2-2 You see that, Anthony? 00:08:12
I think just it's clarity on. 00:08:15
Diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:08:19
According to. 00:08:21
Yeah, League of American Bicyclists. 00:08:25
OK. Are there any other tiers or awards or for like pedestrian friendly or? 00:08:36
Active transportation, so that that could be something to consider once we if we change the name. 00:08:43
And you said there are some that are focused on pedestrian? 00:08:52
There are multiple tiers within. 00:08:59
The what are the? 00:09:02
Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond for the League of Cyclists, but are there other there are other organizations that have 00:09:06
awards for pedestrian friendliness. 00:09:13
Delete. 00:09:23
Do we want to include that? 00:09:25
We're aiming for these kinds of awards as well, or just limited to the. I think we can say like, yeah, we have a goal of becoming 00:09:28
that, but also pursuing other similar awards or something like that that could. 00:09:35
Leave it open to. 00:09:42
Top scootering destination or something like that, I don't know. 00:09:45
Whatever we want to aspire to. 00:09:50
OK. Any other comments on the changes before we talk about the name? 00:09:53
OK, sorry. Go ahead. 00:10:04
It's a little funky. The eyes and ears part provide a venue for public input and assistance as eyes and ears for issues pertaining 00:10:07
to active transportation in the city. 00:10:12
Yes, I think it. 00:10:17
Yeah, we can. We can reword that if we want to. But basically this Commission. 00:10:19
Is listening to the community and we're out there in the community seeing if there's any issues, so if we want to. 00:10:24
Provide a venue for public input and assistant. 00:10:33
You just take out as eyes and ears for and just assistance for issues pertaining to. 00:10:36
OK. 00:10:44
Yeah, so that would reread provide a venue for public input and assistance. 00:10:48
For issues pertaining to active transportation in the city. 00:10:54
Does that read better Martina for you? 00:10:58
Did you get that, Anthony? I've got my notes jotted down here that I can hand to you afterwards as well. 00:11:05
OK if there's no other comments on actual content changes. 00:11:14
One of the things that we talked about last time in regards to the name change was incorporating the term active transportation. I 00:11:20
checked with Jim, he said that's pretty common. 00:11:25
In Wasatch Front Regional Council has 1, Salt Lake County has one that's called the active transportation Commission. They don't 00:11:32
even say advisory Commission, it's just ATC for a few of these. So that's that's pretty standard. Now we don't have to follow any 00:11:38
of those standards, but I'd love your input and thoughts on what you think this should be named and. 00:11:44
How we can? 00:11:52
Basically, appeal to a broader audience than just those that are bicycling. 00:11:54
Yep, my my only thought on it was we could go even more generic and just be like active vineyard or something. But maybe people 00:12:01
think we'll do yoga in the park If we do that and I'm not comfortable doing you'll be in the. 00:12:08
I think actual transportation Commission is fine. 00:12:16
Yeah. 00:12:20
Thank you. Any comments I make on that. Or is it the active transportation is a commonly used terminology in the in the 00:12:28
profession? 00:12:32
And it's well understood by transportation people. 00:12:36
It's not as well understood by the lay public yet, but it's. 00:12:42
Gaining traction. 00:12:47
And having served on the ATC. 00:12:49
In Salt Lake County for many years. 00:12:53
It's gaining traction up there. It'd be nice to see it gain traction down here. 00:12:57
Do we all feel like that encompasses what we're going for here to include, you know? 00:13:05
Walking, running, cycling, rolling. 00:13:09
Scooters, all that kind of stuff. 00:13:13
Yeah, what would be an example of a passive transportation? 00:13:15
I guess getting pulled in a wagon, pushed in a stroller. 00:13:21
Yeah, I don't know. 00:13:27
Yeah, being driven in a car, I guess so. 00:13:30
Vehicle. 00:13:34
OK. 00:13:36
Is everyone OK then with active transportation Commission? 00:13:40
This would all be subject to approval by the City Council, I'm assuming with the OK. So these are just recommendations that we 00:13:44
that would be making okay. 00:13:48
And yeah, you can let us know when we would present these and we can make sure at least one of us is there to kind of speak 00:13:53
through some of the reasoning. 00:13:56
We have a member of the Council here today, so thanks for being here. 00:14:00
So yeah, let's just note then if we do change to or recommend Active Transportation Commission. 00:14:06
That. 00:14:12
BAC and Bicycle Advisory Commission would need to be updated throughout this. 00:14:14
Document. 00:14:19
Looks like they're on. 00:14:23
Most every page, most every section has something. 00:14:25
That refers to that. 00:14:28
Certainly have copies of bylaws from like Salt Lake County or other active transportation commissions to see. 00:14:31
How we would compare? 00:14:37
And if we're missing anything or that's a good idea. 00:14:39
They should all be. If they're like, truly approved by cities, then they should all be public. 00:14:43
But I think that. 00:14:54
That speaks to something else that I'd love to chat about more. It's just like kind of benchmarking and partnering with other 00:14:56
like. 00:14:59
What's Orem doing that's going well or that we want to make sure we don't do or Yeah, that's always a good idea. 00:15:02
So, Mike, are you proposing another iteration of this or? 00:15:14
Uh, no, I. 00:15:19
I think just to compare and contrast, I guess what we've got versus what else is out there. 00:15:21
Yeah, I think that's so. 00:15:26
OK, well. 00:15:32
Let's do, let's, let's do this then. I think it'd be good for us to put forward a recommendation to the council on what we've got 00:15:33
here just for some quick updates. But I think maybe for our future meeting, just benchmarking in general and maybe we could pull 00:15:41
in some like regional best practices. Jordan, and I'll be a part of it as well, is going to the Connected Communities Summit 00:15:48
tomorrow and Thursday. And I think there's some sessions that are actually on that and like resources. So maybe you'll have some. 00:15:55
Bring back to us. 00:16:03
All right, so on items 3-1 and three, two are there is there any more discussion that you want to have before we? 00:16:05
Make a motions for Anthony to pull this together to present to council. 00:16:12
I like to add, add that we don't need to present the bylaws to council. That would be we'll make a motion here and it becomes, you 00:16:21
know, it goes into effect right away, but the name would need a recommendation to council. Yeah, got it. 00:16:28
OK. So we only need a motion on the bylaw update? 00:16:39
Under bylaw, just to recommend the name change. OK, so we'll keep those separate. So let's do the bylaws first if someone's got a 00:16:43
motion to. 00:16:47
Make the updates as we discussed today and I have on the screen the recommendation from staff. 00:16:53
There we go. 00:17:02
Yeah. So I moved to adopt the revised bylaw document for the BAC, potentially AATC now. 00:17:06
Oh, I see. OK. 00:17:18
Condition with the condition that we are going to update the name to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:17:20
And the. 00:17:27
Handful of other changes that we've talked about today. 00:17:28
Anthony has had enough info for you on that so we got. 00:17:31
Motion by Jordan. Do I have a second for that second, Jim, with the second all in favor? 00:17:35
OK. Thank you for that. 00:17:44
And now just to keep that separate business item 3.2, the Bicycle Advisory Commission name change, we will, this is about 00:17:47
recommending a name change. So if I can get a motion, we we talked about the Active Transportation Commission, but if you have a 00:17:52
motion for something else, you're welcome to make that as well. 00:17:57
Yes. 00:18:09
I moved to recommend the your Microsoft. 00:18:16
I move to recommend the name change for the Bicycle Advisory Commission to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:18:21
All right. That was Martina. Thank you. Do I have a second? A second? Hey, Mike, with the second all in favor? 00:18:29
OK. So that will be presented to council and they'll be able to choose one way or another and then we'll make sure the bylaws 00:18:36
reflect. If that's not approved, then it'll stay BAC. If not ATC. 00:18:42
So we will be moving this into the next Planning City Council meeting. So it will be in the agenda. I will be sure to send you an 00:18:48
e-mail with an update on. 00:18:53
Whatever is going to happen or need someone to speak about it, great, SO. 00:18:58
OK OK. 00:19:03
All right, we'll move to business item 3.3, the ordinance amendment about mobility devices and golf carts, and it will answer the 00:19:04
question, are golf carts active transportation? 00:19:09
OK. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. 00:19:23
If you don't know me, my name is Brian I. 00:19:27
The parks director. 00:19:30
And I'm excited that we have this advisory group. I think it's super awesome and going to bring just a ton of value to Vineyard 00:19:33
that already has. 00:19:38
And I've noticed there's an increase in. 00:19:46
Electric type vehicles such as bikes, golf carts. 00:19:51
Dirt bikes, whatever it might be, lots of things throughout the city. And so I specifically want to come to you with this policy. 00:19:56
Regarding golf carts and E bikes. 00:20:06
Of. 00:20:09
How do we best regulate the usage of them in our parks? We've had a number of issues recently come up to where? 00:20:12
On recreation game nights we have golf carts that are zooming through the field. 00:20:22
In between games. 00:20:30
And there's been a lot of parents that have expressed their frustration and worry that there's going to be a potential accident. 00:20:32
There's been several close calls. And, you know, we get dirt bikes that cruise through the park or we get E bikes that go through 00:20:39
the splash pad. 00:20:46
Anyway, so we are in the process of trying to figure out how do we still allow all of these types of vehicles. 00:20:57
But regulate them in a way that we can help ensure. 00:21:03
Improve safety at parks. 00:21:08
So I kind of want to make this an open discussion. 00:21:12
But before I do that, kind of the latest of what we've talked about is with golf carts to still make it encouraging for people to 00:21:17
drive those because I think that it's beneficial to have these. 00:21:23
Alternative routes of transportation because it takes up less parking spots there's. 00:21:30
It just, it can be a lot easier for families to have golf carts to bring all their stuff they don't have to, you know, plug 00:21:37
everything from their car. 00:21:41
But the latest that we've come up with is having a standard that with golf carts, anyone that brings a golf cart to the park, they 00:21:46
would just need to park it within 10 feet of the trail or a sidewalk. So that way there's not any driving of the golf carts on the 00:21:54
field during games. 00:22:01
That way it's not any type of hazard to the kid while games are going. 00:22:09
But maybe just to start from there, I want to hear your guys's thoughts. You guys, I feel like are much more expert in this than I 00:22:14
am when it comes to knowledge of bikes and what that looks like. So what are regulations you would recommend? And then after we 00:22:21
have this discussion, I also want to know your thoughts on what could we do? 00:22:28
From a city standpoint to make our parks more bike friendly. 00:22:37
So let's first start out and just I want to hear your thoughts about what could we do to help regulate? 00:22:42
The usage of electric type vehicles. 00:22:48
Yeah, thoughts. 00:22:56
Yeah, I like the idea of just like park it within. 00:23:01
10 feet of the trail or sidewalk. 00:23:05
Do you think they would extend to like E bikes also or or only golf carts? 00:23:08
We're trying to decide. 00:23:14
Is where do we go with that? With the E bikes? Some concerns that we've had is. 00:23:18
We have limited space in between each field and so you have parents that sit on each side of the field. 00:23:26
And so when people park their bikes in between the fields, it could potentially be a barrier to people trying to walk through, 00:23:33
walk around, or they're running into parents or whatever it might be. So that's a potential concern. 00:23:40
But I'm open to your feedback on that. 00:23:49
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. So when we. 00:23:53
Take our kids to play soccer at the games. Occasionally we'll park, like you were saying, kind of in between the fields. And it's 00:23:57
a bit disruptive, to be fair. 00:24:01
I think just expanding it to say golf carts and E bikes, you should just park them along the sides. 00:24:09
And that leaves kind of flexibility for people to interpret is like, oh, well, if I have a normal bike with a trailer that I bring 00:24:18
my kids on, then I'm OK to be in the middle and I think that's fine. Or even like a smaller E bike with the trailer with kids I 00:24:24
think is also fine. I think it's more the once you get like even into the. 00:24:31
Kids writing on the back of your E bike that's. 00:24:39
Pretty substantial footprint of something to accommodate on the field. 00:24:42
Just with that, is there any concern with someone potentially stealing the bike if we? 00:24:47
By the sidewalk. That's why there's been kind of a like people want to keep it near them. 00:24:53
I mean with a golf cart, do you think pee out and. 00:25:00
But with the bike is a little bit different. 00:25:04
So I'm open to. 00:25:08
What are your thoughts on having a designated spot for these? 00:25:11
Or are we just saying free game for everybody across the? 00:25:17
Field. 00:25:23
Like a golf cart and E bike parking area, right Right. 00:25:25
Also, are we trying to find a solution for a very narrow? 00:25:30
Situation like, because I guess I'm here during soccer games, but like say a soccer game isn't on there. Are we still trying to 00:25:34
find similar regulations or rules all the time even if there's no soccer game going on? 00:25:41
I think, yes, I think it's more so an issue on game days of recreation events like high traffic general, which is kind of why it's 00:25:49
kind of a multi faceted issue, right? So I brought up this picture because I wanted to show you. So this is Grove Park. There's a 00:25:58
sidewalk that goes east West just on the north side of the field. And I would say this is where we have the most potential issues. 00:26:07
Is when we have, you know, E scooters or E bikes. 00:26:16
Typically it's young kids, it's teenagers. They go flying on this sidewalk here where you have people getting out of their cars 00:26:21
coming onto the sidewalk, or you've got this NS sidewalk here where kids are flying down and there's been. 00:26:29
Very close injuries happening right here at this corner. 00:26:38
Here just I'm sure. 00:26:43
Kind of all along. 00:26:46
That pathway. So there's been talk, you know, do we? 00:26:47
Prevent usage of. 00:26:50
Any type of electric vehicles on those two specific sidewalks. 00:26:53
Regulate that I'm not entirely. 00:26:58
I just want to get since you guys are the buying experts. 00:27:01
Of yeah. 00:27:05
We just want to find out. 00:27:07
I'm personally much more concerned about the movement of these vehicles on trails and sidewalks. And I am about where they park. 00:27:08
Like there could be a day where I'm where I'm bugged about where it's parked maybe. But like that's not, I don't know. It's it's 00:27:16
more about like, yeah, if my kids riding a scooter on a trail on a golf carts coming at them and my kid has to go off the trail 00:27:23
because that's coming by and it basically becomes like another Rd. like that. That's more what I'm concerned about regulating. 00:27:31
And I would about where it parks, but what if we had signs or something that's just for visibility for these writers, just to be 00:27:38
mindful of pedestrians or, you know, well, that was again, I'm going back to like actually on the trail, but like, I don't know if 00:27:46
you've seen these before. I think Murdoch Canal trail has some which they don't allow, like golf carts and things like that. But 00:27:53
like where you've got multi use and it's like, well, people who are walking, people who are on a skateboard, scooter, bike or. 00:28:01
Cases someone on a horse, but that could be like a cart or something like that. And it would just basically show if you're in a 00:28:09
golf cart, you yield to everyone, no one's yielding. You're the low on the low person there. And if you had a few of those signs 00:28:16
that might help. But I don't know if that solves the issue that you're that you're looking for, but I would hope that like by 00:28:24
default in that area that like people walking have priority. Maybe it's a bike dismount area maybe. 00:28:31
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. 00:28:40
Whatever approach we want to take there, I think, I think it's smart for the city though to like say we need to have some rules in 00:28:42
place to provide some safety because. 00:28:46
If someone got hurt and there's no rules in place, my guess is there's probably some liability. So well, and I'd be curious too, 00:28:51
of the close calls, what percentage of those was a 12 year old driving the golf cart versus an adult? So I don't know that it's 00:28:57
more the parking or like access, but who's actually operating the vehicle. And that I don't know if you can regulate that because 00:29:04
even even like an ATVI think you're supposed to be 16 years old. 00:29:11
Or a licensed driver and things like that, 'cause like, I think part of what makes Vineyard cool is we do have this like rural 00:29:18
heritage where people were zipping around on ATVs and things like that. I don't know if we'll ever get back to that necessarily. 00:29:24
I was talking to my wife about this. She's like, just have him make a really wide bike lanes and then everyone can use that. It's 00:29:30
like, hey, I like the sound of it. That's how like in Arizona where there's golf courses everywhere. They've got the lane for the 00:29:34
cards, but. 00:29:38
Again. 00:29:43
I think the part of the issue too is the Gulf hurts are going down the sidewalk even not necessarily the sidewalks that are 00:29:45
widened, but just sidewalks like on Center St. And then it's only wide enough for the golf cart and you're going to hopefully 00:29:50
trust a 12 year old not to hit you so. 00:29:55
Yeah. Have there, have there been like infrastructure damage at all like like those running over like sprinkler heads or like 00:30:01
things like that? Is that taking place as well? Because like I think we should think about like what, what other thing, what other 00:30:07
issues are being caused by this that we want to try to address while still allowing for like. 00:30:13
It's a fun unique thing here and like no one wants to shut it down. I just making sure that like. 00:30:21
You know, your little kid doesn't have to be. You know, the beauty of the trails is that you don't have to have your head on a 00:30:27
swivel wondering like if you're going to get hit. Like that's the whole point of a trail. So yeah, there was one incident where a 00:30:31
team. 00:30:35
In that golf cart. 00:30:39
Hit a fence. 00:30:41
Around the park and damage the fence. So that was one incident. The other one is kind of mainly more on roads we had. 00:30:43
A number of teenagers in a golf cart that we're going around the roundabout at Center St. and Main Street right as a car was 00:30:51
coming up. They weren't watching, barely dodged the car and were at the same time an E scooter went right through so. 00:30:59
Thankfully there was number injuries with that, but just given the situation we want to definitely get. 00:31:07
Can we set an age requirement for the golf carts? 00:31:15
Because if you do 16 they have to go through like drivers. 00:31:20
Permit. 00:31:26
Yeah, you could say like licensed drivers or something like that. 00:31:28
But again, I hate to be too prescriptive cuz it's like, again, let's kinda like the cool fun stuff about a golf cart is that it's 00:31:31
not a car, right? And so I don't know. 00:31:36
Good night. Hop in on that thing. 00:31:42
One of the things about and I find this interesting because as I was driving here this meeting and I saw exactly what we were 00:31:47
talking about in that field. 00:31:52
Golf carts don't belong anywhere. 00:31:59
Is the problem they don't Rd. along on the road? 00:32:03
They don't really belong on trails. 00:32:08
You know, but I sure as heck don't belong on sidewalks. 00:32:11
So where do they belong? 00:32:14
Golf carts are a different animal than E scooters and E bikes because of their size and weight. 00:32:17
And same with cars, same with ATVs. 00:32:25
Their size, weight, power is a different animal than a person on a scooter or person on that. 00:32:31
On an E bike. 00:32:37
Well, not all golf carts are created equally. There's some pretty burly golf carts. Yes, that's correct. 00:32:40
So it it, I think it kind of comes down to we need to define as a city what? 00:32:48
We're trying to do. 00:32:55
And what our goal, our values are? 00:32:57
Do we value the ability to drive a golf cart? 00:33:00
Within. 00:33:04
Off of a golf course or off off of private property? On public property? Anywhere on public property. 00:33:05
Or do we say, no, that's not an appropriate use on public property, including on trails, including on sidewalks, including on 00:33:12
streets? 00:33:15
Or do we say, yes, that is appropriate on streets because you don't allow ATVs on trails, you don't allow ATVs on sidewalks? 00:33:21
And. 00:33:32
They're more closely correlated in my mind to a golf cart. 00:33:34
In size and weight and that kind of thing. 00:33:39
That's speed, kind of, but. 00:33:44
The purpose is more correlated. 00:33:48
To that. 00:33:51
And in Utah, we've said that. 00:33:54
ATV's, if they're licensed, can be driven by a licensed driver on the street. 00:33:59
Can we do the same thing, or has that been addressed in state law in any way? 00:34:06
I'm with, with, I don't know. 00:34:10
Other. 00:34:12
Things like golf carts or other. A golf cart is a. 00:34:15
In my mind. 00:34:20
A really mellow ATV. It's electric powered. 00:34:23
Like the original side by sides. 00:34:27
So where does it really go and if it doesn't really belong anywhere? 00:34:32
Kind of that's kind of where you have to start. 00:34:38
Where does it belong and where can we allow it? I think allow. You don't want to continue to encourage people to. 00:34:41
Bring a golf cart. 00:34:50
By giving them a place to park. 00:34:53
If you're not going to give them a place to get from home to that place to park first, a route, yeah. 00:34:56
Nothing is that I think we have to be really careful about regulating, trying to regulate E bikes. 00:35:05
And this is and I'm putting this in air quotes for the record. 00:35:13
E bikes versus regular bikes. 00:35:18
I have both, I ride both. 00:35:22
I've built both. 00:35:26
I know the the capabilities and the upsides and the downsides of both. 00:35:29
The upside of an E bike is that. 00:35:34
If I leave, if I go over that hill, I know I can get back over that hill. 00:35:38
It doesn't matter how old I am or how out of shape I am, I know I can usually get back over that hill. If I do that on my road 00:35:44
bike, I'm not sure I can always get back over that. 00:35:48
So there's a purpose to E bikes and there's a there's a public policy I. 00:35:54
Quality of life issue with E bikes is we want people to leave their cars at home, right? We want them to be more active, we want 00:36:06
to give them more freedom of choice. 00:36:11
And E bikes do exactly that. 00:36:17
To a certain point, an E bikes become a problem where they're too fast, they're too heavy, they're not being written responsibly. 00:36:21
But of course, normal bikes are not written responsibly either. 00:36:26
Let's say if it wasn't an E bike that's riding out over the grass, maybe it's going to be a mountain bike. Something, not somebody 00:36:33
on a mountain bike is doing this exactly the same thing? 00:36:38
And so I think you first have to start with what are we trying to do? What are, what are our values and what do we want to allow 00:36:43
and what do we want to? 00:36:48
Encourage people to do and what we want to discourage people from doing. 00:36:54
And that's just the start. I think putting signs up is a start. My experience has been that people don't pay attention to signs. 00:36:58
Whether they see them or not. 00:37:10
They do pay attention to being ticketed. 00:37:12
Which the a sign would be a precursor. Usually a precursor. I would never want to discourage a kid. Say the ordinance would be 00:37:16
precursors, sure. I just never would have wanted to discourage a kid. 00:37:23
Even E biking to practice because the alternative is OK, dad, get in the car and drive me over there. You know, like. So yeah, we 00:37:29
got to think about the consequences with some of that unintended consequences of banning or allowing. 00:37:36
Exactly what we're what we're trying to focus on trying to figure out. 00:37:44
Same thing with E scooters as opposed to just push scooters. 00:37:52
E Scooters. 00:37:56
Heck of a lot of fun to ride. Heck of a lot more fun than push scooters. 00:37:58
And I see them everywhere and I see people flying on those and I see people without how much, which just makes me. 00:38:02
But then I say, and I see people on motorcycles, helmets and so it's the same thing but. 00:38:12
One thing I might suggest. 00:38:20
Is that the city? 00:38:23
Do some research on you know, we were talking about. 00:38:26
What the weather ATC's do? What do other cities do? 00:38:30
I'm sure that there are other cities that I'm 100% sure that there are other cities that have tried to tackle what's very same, 00:38:34
including Salt Lake City. 00:38:37
And especially with it with the E scooters and E bikes. 00:38:42
And they've been. 00:38:47
Somewhat successful in their approach. 00:38:50
But I don't think they've had to deal with. 00:38:53
Things like. 00:38:56
Golf carts yet? 00:38:58
And so. 00:39:01
That may be something, I don't know, Anthony, if I just sent a text to Dan Wayne and Mag to ask if it would be appropriate to do a 00:39:03
like a. 00:39:09
Tag study. Technical assistance study. 00:39:17
Looking at this, at this very thing. 00:39:22
And kind of help maybe the rest of the cities within. 00:39:26
Utah County or within Utah start to address this. 00:39:30
Vineyard is by far not alone. Noises everywhere. 00:39:33
Just to go off that too, there's been some regulations that other. 00:39:40
Cities that put in regarding the type of E bike so like those that you know can go home. 00:39:44
Right. So that's kind of one potential thing that we can do, but I mean there's a million situations that. 00:39:54
A good looking for saying it. 00:40:05
But this has been helpful to get your guys thoughts on this. So well I had one other thing. So without. 00:40:16
By default, like carving out like a full throated endorsement of golf carts, right? By doing some of these things, I think we can 00:40:25
address some of the issues by like anything that's concrete there on this screen. What if that was a? 00:40:31
Dismount pedestrian only, wheelchair only. 00:40:40
Right. And so it's like I'm not riding my bike through there. 00:40:43
While people are, you know, while games are in session or something like that, it's really just for people walking or using 00:40:47
wheelchairs or. 00:40:51
That's all it's for. On the concrete like that might be something to look at. 00:40:55
And then the other thing I was thinking of on the trails. 00:41:01
Again, enforcement. I don't know if you'd ever do this, but. 00:41:04
If you said there's a 15 mile an hour limit on the trails, is that OK? So like, maybe making that known? Because again, like a 00:41:07
responsible mom driving a golf cart 5 miles an hour on the trail doesn't really like concern me that much. Maybe someday it will. 00:41:14
If there's, you know, 500 of them, who knows? 00:41:21
But it's it's the people like tearing around going real fast that that that's where dangerous things are going to happen. So. 00:41:29
Maybe it's just education, like, especially if there's stuff already in place, Maybe it's just like, hey, let's double down on 00:41:36
this and make sure that that's not a problem. 00:41:40
Just a couple thoughts. There's the other. 00:41:44
MM goes over 15 miles an hour on his bike. 00:41:48
Just don't tell on me. I know they're trying to watch on Murdoch. 00:41:52
I will say, and this is not bragging, but this is because I was being chased by a lightning storm coming down Provo Canyon on my 00:41:58
road bike. I hit 35, which for me is slow. I mean for me is fast. 00:42:03
For the professionals, that's you're not really going very fast. 00:42:14
Regular bikes can go just as fast as your bikes in certain situations. E bikes make it easier for people who are less experienced 00:42:19
to go faster. Is it kind of where it causes problems? 00:42:25
One of the things that I might also suggest here is that in addition to signage, it may be some physical barriers. And that seems 00:42:32
to work really well on where you've got where you've got limited access or yeah, like like the the boardwalk, I don't know if 00:42:38
you've seen that. It's got a little bollard in the middle. There's no golf carts that go across that. 00:42:45
One other thought I had to especially if we want to address those that don't have licenses but still want to drive. 00:42:53
If the city did a program, maybe even a revenue generating opportunity to say, hey, you got to go through this course and you have 00:43:00
to get a permit, right? And it's just for the use in, in within Vineyard so that if something does happen and they're not 00:43:07
permitted or they don't have the permit or whatever, right? At least we're trying to educate and be proactive on that front and 00:43:14
explain the rules as opposed to just letting them run around wherever, right? And then hoping that they don't get an accident. 00:43:21
Awesome. Yeah, I think that's great. 00:43:30
There's a sorry, I was going to add two more things. So on BYU campus, you can't ride your bike during the class breaks, which I 00:43:34
think works really well because there's a ton of people walking there, but you can any other time. So I wonder if just during 00:43:39
events we just have a sign says walk your bike and just put it at like. 00:43:44
The North End of that. 00:43:51
Because if you show up on a Tuesday at 3:00 PM to that park, you can ride your bike around there no problem. The other one is that 00:43:54
there's a city in Georgia called Peachtree City, I think, that has a ton of golf carts, like everywhere. Like people write them to 00:44:01
high school people write them to. 00:44:08
Go see grandma, whatever. And it doesn't seem like their trust system is that much wider than ours. So I'd be curious to see like 00:44:16
how they actually manage it because they have like a dedicated trail system and everybody just uses it for golf carts. And maybe 00:44:22
they just have like enough people only doing golf carts and not kids biking. But I would imagine that little kids ride their bikes 00:44:28
on those trails also. And so I'd be curious to see how they. 00:44:34
Actually manage that if they really do have like separated infrastructure for golf carts versus bikes versus walking or. 00:44:41
They just have a culture of. 00:44:48
Golf carts actually yield to everybody or I don't know, but it's the same in Arizona to in certain spots. 00:44:51
The golf carts yield to the bikes, but in the bike path is much larger and it has a picture of a golf cart and a bike. So the golf 00:44:56
cart just yields to the bike. It's one of the one of the first issues and that's a great comment about the width. 00:45:05
Is there actually width for a bike and a golf cart to share a path safely? 00:45:14
Typically in the in the 8 to 10 feet. 00:45:21
Of trail that we have in most of the cities in Utah, the answer that's an easy no. It's pretty cool. 00:45:24
Golf carts are just way too big. 00:45:32
But it could be like Main Street, Center Street, where you got the bike image on the far right lane you could put a golf cart. 00:45:35
Logo there too. 00:45:41
Force everybody on the road. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of like unused space on our roads that even cars don't occupy 00:45:43
the median for 95% of the time. 00:45:48
There you go. I mean repainting our Rd. 00:45:55
Inside and a golf cart laying on the outside. 00:46:00
And the golf cart lane protects the bike lane from the traffic and the 12 year old driving the golf. 00:46:03
Just wear a helmet. Yeah, Transition now into. 00:46:10
What can the Vineyard City do to make our parks more bike? 00:46:13
I think one one thing is that you have you currently have bike parking, right? 00:46:24
They have places for people to lock, put their bikes and lock them. 00:46:29
We have some, there could be more closer to the fields I think probably. 00:46:35
And if you're playing way down here? 00:46:44
Bike up here and that's that's pretty far to. 00:46:46
So I don't know if there's, you know, for bike parking by these or something. 00:46:51
I feel like routes would be. 00:46:58
Helpful. 00:47:01
As in like. 00:47:02
Like visually? 00:47:05
Designatings. 00:47:09
Like a route or something. 00:47:11
Like with a trail map? Yeah, yeah. Like this is the recommended route for bike users or something like that. 00:47:13
Which we'd probably have to do some study on, like OK, this is. 00:47:23
But yeah, it's kind of the idea of like safe routes to school, but like safe routes to our city amenities like. 00:47:28
Parks. 00:47:34
That could be good. 00:47:37
And are we thinking like, hey, you can ride your bike on the grass or is it mainly for cemented areas or? 00:47:41
I don't know what other options there are. 00:47:53
For big events, which I don't know if that falls underneath Parks and Recreation, but. 00:47:58
We had talked about. 00:48:04
Using the tennis courts, pickleball courts is like a. 00:48:06
More safe, secure bike parking if it's like. 00:48:10
Like that 911 event that we just did, or the Heritage Days where it's really big. 00:48:14
We threw out the ideas, but we didn't really execute, you know, in time for some of that stuff. But yeah. 00:48:18
In future years, I think that could be a good one to look at too. 00:48:25
You're talking to the right guy. He's the he's all in charge of all these things because I know parking can be tight. 00:48:29
For like just a regular Saturday morning events, but I think you guys do a pretty good job and. 00:48:37
It's not like a deal breaker, but for like heritage days, there's probably some people that don't show up. 00:48:42
Because parking so bad or it's so hard, or there's some people. 00:48:47
That have to drive and don't have the so like the people that don't need to drive, you know, giving them an easy, easy way. I 00:48:51
think that's one one thing that could help. That's more event management though, than like infrastructure for the park. 00:48:57
I think I'm just like a normal no event, no programming going on at the park. 00:49:06
Things are pretty good, I agree. 00:49:12
Maybe the, maybe the. 00:49:15
Bike parking at. 00:49:17
At Grove Park is not the best in the world, but. 00:49:20
Like most of the time people just kind of pull up and. 00:49:23
Park right next to the bench or next to whatever they're doing there and. 00:49:27
It's not like we're at capacity on a. 00:49:32
Normal day or whatever, I think it's really the event. 00:49:37
Where there's a ton of people or even like after the. 00:49:40
The parade. 00:49:47
Down at the Sunset Beach Park and around there seemed like there was. 00:49:50
Yeah, just kind of confusion around like, yeah, I rode my bike here and that's great and now I just leave it here or. 00:49:55
Like what do I do? 00:50:02
And so people kind of just do what they assume is best or assume is acceptable. 00:50:04
So yeah, I think having. 00:50:10
I think having a strategy around how we're going to handle bikes or bigger events, which. 00:50:12
Would be great if we can staff that all the time. 00:50:18
If not at least having kind of a designated area, I think we could. 00:50:21
Is it likely that those with E bikes? 00:50:26
Feel comfortable even just locking their bike into a bike rack. 00:50:29
Or is that not? 00:50:32
I don't ride an ebike, but I ride a bike that I still wouldn't lock up to to. 00:50:38
I don't, but that's just me and I'm OCD about it. But yeah, yeah. 00:50:44
So something to consider. Funny because I'm just the opposite. I have a. 00:50:49
I wouldn't. 00:50:54
I wouldn't lock up my road bike. 00:50:55
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind writing with a big heavy chain on my E bike. And I've done that because I don't want to carry that 00:50:58
chain, that big heavy chain on my road bike anywhere. 00:51:04
I think I think generally people, especially people with like maybe in my demographic, if you have kids and you have an E bike are 00:51:10
pretty LAX about like even locking their bike up anywhere, which I think is probably a cultural shift that we should change. I 00:51:17
think one thing that we could do to try to incentivize that behavior of like, you know, you should like lock up your bike or know 00:51:24
where it is is. 00:51:30
Work on the bike registration stuff. 00:51:38
Just to kind of shed awareness to like somebody might steal your bike. Like we live in a nice city, but somebody might still come 00:51:40
steal your bike. And so let's get it registered and let's have a plan in place of. 00:51:47
Where you going to park your bike when it's out in public and. 00:51:54
And whatever. 00:51:57
Yeah. But yeah, to summarize my thoughts on, I think the parks are great and that's evidenced by like, just like how many people 00:51:58
ride their bike there. Like we do a pretty good job, but if you got more places to sit. 00:52:04
Like a cement pad that has a bench and a bike rack and a few of those around, like close to the trail so that you can kind of 00:52:11
spectate like, I think that would go a long way. And did your question center on events or just like parks in general? 00:52:18
OK. 00:52:26
OK this isn't a park, but I guess the park strip next to bus stations if we could get like a bike rack there. 00:52:29
That'd be cool. I've seen people. 00:52:38
Like or where the like the junior high and elementary bus stops are because yeah, some of the kids. 00:52:40
Yeah, they want a bike or scooter to the bus stop. I know the city did a good job out there. They put one just right here. Yeah, 00:52:51
that was really smart, like, and I think they could probably use that in other places. It's probably tough though, because maybe 00:52:57
the school district arbitrarily changes pick up spots too, so I get it. But where it makes sense, like I know some of them are 00:53:02
near like detention ponds and things like that where it's just kind of unused area. You could throw some racks and things there. 00:53:08
Well this is great. Thanks for your time and forgiving. 00:53:15
Feedback So I'll definitely do more research into this and work with Holden. Who? 00:53:20
And have more to say. What happens on the streets? Yeah. 00:53:27
Just, I'm sure this will kind of be an ongoing conversation. We'll find all the solutions in one night, but. 00:53:33
Maybe we did, yes. 00:53:39
Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming. And like, yeah, I think overall, like they're fun as long as people are safe, 00:53:42
right? And I think that's all you're trying to go for. So that's good. 00:53:47
I have one more thing for the park because I am long winded. Sometimes the bike pump nozzle, the rubber in there wears out, 00:53:52
especially along the Murdoch trail. Like all of those are kind of worthless because the the rubber doesn't really work very well, 00:53:58
especially over like winter. It just gets like dried up and doesn't seal properly. So what's the best thing? Like if someone sees 00:54:04
that just do the like the report a concern on the OK. 00:54:10
What if there's like a sticker or something we could put on those like if it's not working like? 00:54:18
Scan this QR code and yeah, that might message Anthony Jenkins. Yeah, yeah, here's Anthony. 00:54:23
Sure, I've got. 00:54:30
I can't do anything about it, but but that's not just for bike stuff. Like if you saw a swing was broken, like you'd probably want 00:54:32
to know that stuff, right? 00:54:36
You better leave before we give you more feedback. 00:54:43
OK, thanks. 00:54:52
Anthony, that, that, that was a business item, but there's no action needed on that one, right? It was more just kind of talking 00:54:55
through. 00:54:57
OK. 00:55:01
So the conversation we had had before this presentation was he'd take the comments and possibly. 00:55:03
Have them all presented as so our comments could be put into motion. 00:55:10
To him to be treated as a recommendation to counsel. 00:55:16
So we still have to make a motion. 00:55:21
Before we end that. 00:55:23
That business item? 00:55:26
So, OK, so we could we could ask for someone to make a motion. 00:55:28
For Brian to incorporate our feedback into the code changes that they are recommending. OK. 00:55:32
Well, yeah, I know none of us concisely did that, but you were taking some notes here and it's recorded so you can go back. But 00:55:39
anyone want to make a motion so moved? 00:55:43
Yeah. So Jordans making a motion that Anthony set out there, anyone second? 00:55:49
I second it. All right, Martin, with a second all in favor. 00:55:57
Aye, OK. 00:56:01
Right, you've got our you've got our blessing to go forward with that then. 00:56:04
OK. All right. We'll now move on to staff, Commission and committee reports. Let's start with the Commission. We'll just go down 00:56:08
the line and see if there's anything that you wanted to share, anything top of mind. 00:56:13
I just had one. Maybe it's a stretch because I think part of what we're trying to do is connect all the trails, not just with 00:56:19
inventory but other parts of the county. Is there any way to work with Provo to like redo that Provo River Trail? It is insanely 00:56:27
horrible. Well, I don't know if anybody's ridden it from like the mouth of Provo Canyon back. Like there's no more markings 00:56:34
anymore. They painted them all out so people just walk wherever they ride bikes wherever. 00:56:41
I don't know. I'm just like going through the city itself. Do we have like a special favor or somebody we know that we could talk 00:56:50
about that? 00:56:53
So. 00:56:58
Jordan Jordan's gonna see some bike Provo people and I will too tomorrow. And it's to the point where like I try not to go down 00:56:59
that trail anymore. I it's insanely horrible. My mountain bike if I do a lot. 00:57:05
For some of the like the root because they flattened some of the root areas out, but it's still just another redoing Some of the 00:57:11
underpasses too like by the river and under. 00:57:15
Widening them a little bit, but it's very. 00:57:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't know the answer on that or somebody has a phone number I could call every day until somebody does 00:57:24
something. But yeah, I think if I just look at that and zoom out a little bit like you're basically just saying regional trail 00:57:29
infrastructure and making sure that. 00:57:33
What we have adds to the value of that and everyone else is also trying to keep their regional trails. 00:57:39
I like that, yeah, it's more PC wave approaching it. 00:57:45
I have a name and a number. If you would like that I would love that. 00:57:50
Happy shared with that I would I would suggest that your first. 00:57:54
There are actually 3. 00:57:59
Different agencies that should be in contact with the city should be in contact with. 00:58:02
1st is going to be MAG. 00:58:09
They're going to be Calvin Clark. 00:58:11
I was doing what I used to do. 00:58:14
Or at least took my spot. 00:58:17
This is something actually that. 00:58:25
It's funny bring this up. 00:58:28
In the, in the, in the context of things that we're doing, these are, these are generational changes, these are, these are long 00:58:30
term changes to the infrastructure. 00:58:34
It always takes a long time, a lot longer than we'd like. 00:58:38
A lot longer than than anybody wants, and they're always more expensive than anybody wants. 00:58:42
But if they're done right. 00:58:49
Than they're going to be done right for a very long time. 00:58:51
And that's one of the reasons that I would encourage. 00:58:55
Connection first with mag #1 because Calvin has expertise in this, he has contacts. 00:58:59
Between all the cities and the county and UW and everybody who would be a shareholder in doing something like that. 00:59:08
And two, because MAG is a Funding Agency, they bring a lot of money to the table. 00:59:16
For reconstruct, constructing and reconstructing trails. In fact, the reconstruction of the Pearl River Trail along University 00:59:22
Ave. 00:59:27
Was funded by MAG OK. 00:59:32
And. 00:59:37
That one still has paint and and and 3rd paint is they'll have to talk offline about paint. Just as long as it gets a smooth 00:59:40
surface. Like you look at Murdoch, that's a great trail, even though there's really no paint on it, but it's still smooth, it's 00:59:45
wide enough. 00:59:51
You get on that purple river trail and there's like gaps, like, I don't know, it's yeah, that's maintenance issue. Small child 00:59:58
could fall in one of those. Yeah. Same with with Jordan Trail. It's it's a. 01:00:03
It's a maintenance issue. 01:00:10
And the third one will be Utah County, because they're all. 01:00:12
That's good. 01:00:16
But yeah, I like that. And I think if you if you chat with Matt, give us an update next time because I think what Vineyard wants 01:00:18
to do, we've got. 01:00:23
You know, the trail to from my neighborhood to Grove Park is not going to be part of a regional trail network, but along the lake 01:00:28
like that, that fits in and that should all be part of a cohesive network, right? So I think that's that's good. 01:00:35
Jim, do you have anything? 01:00:45
I feel like I've said more than I should have. 01:00:48
All right, well, if you do have things, feel free to speak up. 01:00:52
One thing that I just wanted to bring up and Nassim actually did a report a concern on this. There's a there's a couple places in 01:00:56
the city where. 01:01:00
The trails will dead end into like a park strip, but I mean it's not the end of the world. You can turn right and go over to 01:01:07
someones driveway and down. But you know, if you're in a wheelchair or you know, rollerblading or roller skating like it, it might 01:01:13
be a little more disruptive than you know, like on a bike. So I'm just identifying some of those areas. I don't think that's like 01:01:20
the highest priority, but I think it's probably good to have on some. 01:01:27
Plan somewhere, you know, if there's, because I think they're probably fairly inexpensive projects too. So if there's just a list 01:01:34
of like, hey, if we've got budget at the end of the year, you know, we could. 01:01:39
Add that additional. 01:01:44
Sidewalk or trail that connects it to the road or you know, grind the curb down South. It's an ADA ramp or whatever it might be. 01:01:46
So anyway, I just was going to bring that up because there's there's a few places that are like that. 01:01:51
Yeah, so we did the bike to the UVU. 01:01:59
Walk and roll to Campus Day. 01:02:05
Anthony and I rode and we had one other person join us on the scooter. Made a few connections with people there. Met two people 01:02:09
actually who live in Vineyard who go to UVU. 01:02:16
One is who the people? 01:02:23
I forget if it was there somewhere else. Somebody brought up a concern. They live on Mill Rd. in an apartment along there. And 01:02:27
they're like, yeah, I used to lock up my bike outside my apartment just like kind of under the stairs there. I guess the apartment 01:02:33
building banned that. They're wondering if the city can do. 01:02:39
Anything or has any advice of like where to park your bike if you live on Mill Rd. 01:02:46
Those apartment buildings really don't have great bike parking at all that honestly, none of those apartment buildings have any 01:02:52
bike parking. So unless you're bringing it into your apartment, yeah. Yeah. So he parks us in his living room. 01:02:58
I've I've seen a few people just like leave them out on the balcony or whatever. 01:03:06
I don't know how to fix that or what to do about that but. 01:03:11
There's something also talked to the Orem police at the UVA event. They were registering bikes there. 01:03:14
They said that the county has a unified way of doing that, so I'm going to follow up with our. 01:03:23
Police force here. 01:03:31
To get incorporated with that, with the hope that we could. 01:03:32
Get some stickers or whatever, just get added to their database and then maybe participate in like the next. I think the next big 01:03:39
city thing is the Halloween trick or treat event. If you had like a a booth to the side there of just registering your bike and. 01:03:47
Putting a sticker on it would be something new. 01:03:55
And then? 01:03:59
The other thought as far as events goes, so we have. 01:04:01
A calendar of events for the May bike month set up now that I can. 01:04:07
I don't know if you were included in that e-mail. Yeah, I don't know if I saw the final one, but yeah, Anna had all those mapped 01:04:13
out, right? Yeah. So kind of the kind of the key strategies there is that we're going to try to coordinate at least with Orem to 01:04:19
do our Bike to Work day on the same day that they're doing theirs. Potentially have like a snack station at the front runner 01:04:24
station just for whoever. 01:04:30
And then? 01:04:37
Also kind of revamped the bike rodeo a little bit. 01:04:40
To be maybe not just a kids safety event but like a more generic like bike skills event. If you're an adult and want to learn how 01:04:44
to ride a bike then that might be a good Ave. for that. Also I. 01:04:53
Maybe some tuning lessons or something. Yeah, yeah, like a bike maintenance type of thing. So. 01:05:03
Yeah, that's kind of a. 01:05:10
Kind of the bigger change for this year's, trying to incorporate some different ideas into that event. 01:05:14
And then? 01:05:20
Try to also continue to expand our events during the year a little bit. So I think the next thing that we should try to do is like 01:05:22
a winter bike to school day, maybe sometime early January when a lot of kids aren't riding their bike to school because it's cold. 01:05:29
Which is fair, but I think we can still do that. 01:05:38
When the leaves start changing, like there was a couple people that wanted to do a little thing, but yeah, like a little fall 01:05:41
ride. Yeah, that'd be fun. It's really fun. Pretty cool. 01:05:47
Um, I think. 01:05:54
Everything that I have. 01:05:58
Nice, Martina. 01:06:00
Anything from you? 01:06:02
I missed the last meeting, but did we talk about the city tour like the bike tour at all? 01:06:07
Yeah. Did you have anything you wanted to add about that? Just like if we could have a mic or whoever. OK, So if there is an 01:06:44
educational aspect, make sure everyone can hear. But it was really cool. There's so many people that came and I just thought like, 01:06:52
man, this is what community looks like, you know, like everybody coming together and just getting excited about what's going on. 01:07:00
Or at least informed. Yeah, yeah, yes. Informed, yes. 01:07:08
Oh yeah, here we go. Here's some pictures that anything's got up there. 01:07:12
But yes, it was a success. It was good. 01:07:16
All right, well, if that's it from the Commission, we'll go to staff real quick. Anthony Museum, Holden, anything from you? 01:07:20
That's active transportation related. 01:07:28
Yes. 01:07:31
I have a few things for the Commission. 01:07:31
All right, so. 01:07:34
The first one would be the Connected Community Summit, which is happening tomorrow, and that's the 18th and 19th. 01:07:36
This is happening at the Utah Valley Convention Center, so if any of you is interested in being part of this, please let me know 01:07:45
and we'll get you tickets for that. So. 01:07:51
It's on the House. 01:07:58
But like, let him know now because so yeah, it's tomorrow. So if you're interested, you just let me know now. 01:08:01
Yeah. 01:08:07
So that's that's the main thing that's urgent right now. But the next thing is going to be an update on the tag grant. We're 01:08:08
fortunate to have Anthony join us in the consultant selection meeting. We have selected a consultant. 01:08:17
It's Ave. consultants with other consultants. They came together, but it's been led by Ave. and today we sent out a draft contract 01:08:27
that is being reviewed. 01:08:34
So we're probably going to be on the contract with the selected consultant. 01:08:42
In the next week or two. 01:08:48
The plan is once they get in the contract and they start working, there's going to be a date that we put together for. 01:08:50
Town hall where the, you know, the whole project is pretty much opened to the entire community to come, you know, ask questions 01:09:00
and just get to know about it. But the BAC will be heavily involved in a lot of the meetings that go on with that project, so. 01:09:09
Were just a few weeks away from being busy. We might organize some special sessions. 01:09:19
I don't know till we have really a contract in place and we have a game plan with the consultant. 01:09:26
So that's a quick update that I wanted to give. Other than that, I think we're doing great. 01:09:32
Thank you. 01:09:39
Did you have anything? 01:09:42
If you get all the way up here and say no, I'm going to be frustrated. 01:09:49
Seeing the door by the worst director, I say engineer. 01:10:02
I have something. 01:10:06
So we've recently been working with Frontrunner in regards to the front runner, what they call the Front Runner Point Improvement 01:10:09
project in regards to. 01:10:14
Doing more increase the frequency for front runner throughout Utah County, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County and so and such. One 01:10:20
of the items that's been we've been having some discussions with is and we've been working with the city forum and are continuing 01:10:26
to work with city forum in regards to continuing the trail. 01:10:32
Along down South of Vineyard Rd. I believe that's what it's called down here, but it's a road that takes you from right by. 01:10:39
Center St. down to kind of where they're building the new townhouses, as well as in the coming looping down to Lakeside Park. 01:10:50
Yeah, there we go, Lakeside Park. 01:10:55
As well, But we're also talking about some doing some realignment realignments of the road, but also too and in terms of kind of 01:11:02
what that kind of spurred the trail discussions to and to provide the connectivity from Viner down to the sports park and also. 01:11:11
To help, taught us some discussions about addressing the parking. 01:11:21
I'm on there because right now a lot of people are parking on the streets and there's an overflow flow in the park on the streets, 01:11:26
which provides. 01:11:29
Now they, you know, hazards for cars, but hazards for everyone else who are trying to get in and out. And obviously we understand, 01:11:33
we know that the recent history of the pedestrian safety in that area, but also part of our discussions have been working with 01:11:39
with Orem City about connecting on the east side of the railroad tracks there. We go east side of the railroad tracks where the 01:11:45
Vine Apartments are, where the trail terminates. 01:11:51
To where the bridge have missing piece like a year ago. 01:11:58
Yeah. So having some discussions with connect all the way through to, we're having some discussions with ARM, but more importantly 01:12:03
with ETA in regards to utilizing some right away space property that DTA has reserved and will want to keep reserving, but would 01:12:11
be open to the city building a trail there on the basis that if they ever needed the trail goes away. 01:12:19
But you know that is maybe in a 50 years or 100 years from now. 01:12:29
Or it might be tomorrow. It's one of those things. 01:12:34
But I mean, they're very open to that. And Orem City, we had discussions with Orem Cities city engineer, engineering staff as well 01:12:36
as their plan, their planner, planning department in regards to that. So hopefully we see some good movement along there. I know 01:12:42
that's been a topic discussion like a year and a half ago. 01:12:48
And for other reasons, I'm sure, let's just put on pause. So we want to move forward with that because that not only provides the 01:12:55
connectivity for recreational use, but also it provides another route for the people that live in the apartments to get to 01:13:02
Vineyard Elementary without having to go a mile and a half out of their way. 01:13:09
On that one so I just wanted to give you updates on that. And then of course we received the especially thanks to MAG and from the 01:13:17
former people of MAG that we received the federal we're we're moving forward receiving federal funding to do some drug enhancement 01:13:23
projects. One of them is over at Center Street by. 01:13:29
Franklin Elementary, Franklin Elementary and Gammon Park, we did the city when there's some plumber improvements there now as well 01:13:36
as the work over by Vineyard Elementary and Lakeside Park as well with some for some improvements there. Both the areas of city 01:13:43
this improvements is to get something into the ground, but the funding that we'll be receiving will actually be for some good long 01:13:50
term sustainable improvements 1. 01:13:57
Notably, is to help with the. 01:14:05
Driveway improvement. 01:14:08
Realignment for the Lakeside Park. 01:14:09
To ensure that you know. 01:14:12
Regular intersection. So it's a classic four way versus an offset four way. I'm, you know. 01:14:14
Funny enough, when I when we talked to or city of warm about that for before your answer was their park was there first, Vineyard 01:14:20
came second, so. 01:14:24
Well, we're, but we're still interested in the lead to make make that correction. 01:14:28
So those are, yeah, those are the big things on there. 01:14:33
And hopefully again, hopefully. 01:14:42
Connection underneath 800 N into the to the front runner station in the new trail system. Yeah, connection there. I mean, we're 01:14:44
yeah. And we're working forward without making this like all the other construction that might happen. There is solely nothing to 01:14:50
do with the trail. It's just kind of more landscaping improvements as well as infrastructure improvements. Residents that live 01:14:55
over in those townhomes and they've really. 01:15:00
It's a big upgrade, yeah. And we're playing out, yeah, we're playing out planting trees along there just to provide some good, 01:15:05
like a good distinguishing on the, you know, privacy slash, aesthetics slash, you know, everything else. 01:15:11
That's good. Thanks for seeing. 01:15:19
All right, one last update. 01:15:21
So in my communication with the League of American Bicyclists, they did say that they have training. 01:15:24
Opportunities for cities to like just have staff and buy commissions just come together and receive trainings to guide us through 01:15:32
a. 01:15:38
Get into a much higher status from bronze to maybe, you know, silver or gold. So that is something that I'm waiting on an e-mail 01:15:45
with details on how to get signed up for such trainings. But it comes at a cost that the city has to pay. 01:15:54
And it's, you know, they described it as. 01:16:04
Just transportation and time for them here. 01:16:07
So that's one they come in to do the training. It's a 2 day training. 01:16:11
So something they offer to cities? 01:16:16
Another thing, also from the League of American Bicyclists, is they could. 01:16:19
Have a virtual call with us. 01:16:25
Which we could probably have on our next meeting. 01:16:28
Just have them go through our scores and the reason why we're still bronze with us, that will be free, but they can't be here in 01:16:32
person. So I noticed too that like. 01:16:38
Our PDF scorecard didn't seem to be updated for this last go around. I don't know if it's because of the the IT was still bronze 01:16:46
so they just kept the other one up. But I can follow up on that as well. Yeah, but I think that be a good agenda item. Just let us 01:16:51
know if it is and we can plan for you. I will update the team though on probably the cost involved in having the real train. Would 01:16:57
you be interested in having a training? 01:17:03
Maybe next year. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about it and like what we would expect to learn. Two days is a lot. Yes, it is a lot 01:17:10
that anyone that this isn't their full time job to do. I think so, yeah. My only concern, they said the outcome is usually pretty 01:17:17
good because they try to just have all of us in a space where we can interact and just go through stuff. 01:17:24
More than just discussing the scorecard and also they recommend during that time to have a bike ride in the city. 01:17:33
Just to have a good idea of what exists and also have them make recommendations because they don't live here. So they'll really 01:17:41
that's the reason why it's all two days because they spend time right in the city even before the time that you have to meet and 01:17:47
write as a group. 01:17:52
OK, with enough notice, we could probably plan for that. Yeah, sure. Can I, can I ask a couple questions on that? Yeah, sure. 01:18:00
Another they're doing this on they're willing to do this on a city by city basis. 01:18:11
Would they be willing to do it on a regional basis? 01:18:17
In other words, having what if, what if Mag headed this up. 01:18:20
And the cities, when you bring in Orem and you bring in all the cities and those who are actually doing the applications, the 01:18:24
staff, yeah, we're doing those applications can be trained and then. 01:18:31
Each of the cities I think it's just us taking advantage of in this area, but there's also UVU and BYU I think are bike friendly 01:18:38
campuses. And then there's a couple businesses too, so you could just invite them all. That's a good idea. 01:18:45
I'd ask them, but I sounds like a very good idea. Something that would be worth having though. 01:18:53
And then if some of us couldn't make it, there still be like critical mass of people to. 01:19:02
I didn't have someone come out and like, three of us said we'd be there and only one can make it, you know? And it's like, OK, 01:19:07
that's not anyone's time, but if you can get a few other entities involved, that could be good. That would be good. 01:19:13
Thank you. 01:19:19
All right. Next meeting is on December 17th. That's scheduled. But for now meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thanks. 01:19:20
Did you see a Jordan? 01:19:35
Thank you. 01:19:38

Transcript

Event transcript
And we'll get started as 534. And we are going to kick off the Bicycle Advisory Commission meeting for September 17th, 2024. 00:00:02
We will start with public comments, so anyone here that wants to speak about something that's not on the agenda today, you're 00:00:12
welcome to come up now. 00:00:16
OK. We'll move right into business items now. Item 3.1 is the Bicycle Advisory Commission bylaws. So Anthony Fletcher's gone 00:00:22
through a revised draft and provided that to us. And I think there was even a few copies there for anyone in the audience that 00:00:29
wanted to look at them. But Anthony, you can go ahead and take us through this and then we'll take appropriate action. 00:00:36
So. 00:00:47
My name is Anthony, as you are now and I would want to make this pretty quick. 00:00:48
I have left the, you know, all the changes that we made in track changes, so you know exactly what was changed based on our 00:00:55
previous discussion. 00:01:00
We went through all the bylaws thoroughly during our last meeting. We made a few changes here and there. 00:01:06
And then we decided that I will update this. 00:01:14
And to move to the next level would have to accept all these changes based on what we discussed. I don't know if you want to 00:01:19
really go through every bit of these changes. 00:01:25
But. 00:01:32
Everything was noted and affected in this one. So if there are no feather. 00:01:33
Changes to the bylaws based on the comments and review. 00:01:39
That we had to, you know. 00:01:46
The things that we have to change in this one, then we should be good to. 00:01:49
Make a motion on accepting. 00:01:54
This as a bylaw, yeah, So hopefully everyone had a chance to skim through that and look at that. If there's any comments, let's do 00:01:57
that now. And then I also, I didn't want to conflate to business items, but I also don't want to approve this and then talk about 00:02:02
a name change when it would impact this so we could. 00:02:07
Maybe discuss that as we go through this as well, because those would be some additional red line changes. 00:02:14
Right. And if we're going to be discussing both at the same time, I'd like to give a little background based on what happened last 00:02:20
time we did talk about. 00:02:24
Possibly changing the name to be more inclusive. So the few names that came up during our discussion was put in the staff report 00:02:29
just to make it easier for us when we meet today to discuss and make a decision. I did check also with the Bike Friendly 00:02:35
Communities America and they're excited about even the name change because they're thinking of making things a lot more inclusive. 00:02:41
So if we're doing this. 00:02:47
Name change with the aim of you know, still making our communities more bike friendly and you know, being more inclusive to have 00:02:54
all these other new things that are popping up, you know the electric scooters and all these things be part of the things that we 00:03:01
plan for then it's a good thing so. 00:03:07
We are clear to change the name if we want to. It doesn't have to be bike only like a BAC as we have it right now. Once we have a 00:03:15
bike focus, active transportation focus in there, they're fine. 00:03:22
Got it. OK. So with that context, we can kind of talk about both as we go through, but I know a few of you had some comments on 00:03:32
the content here and then we can talk. 00:03:35
What would be the most appropriate name for this Commission? 00:03:39
Yeah, I just had a question about the section Article 4 Membership, Section 1 composition. 00:03:43
As maybe pedantic, but it says the BC membership shall consist of two at large members. 00:03:53
Is that shall like an inclusive or like optional? We can have two at large members or. 00:04:00
Or shall as in mandated. We need to have like we'll always need to have, right? Yeah. 00:04:08
Yeah, sorry. 00:04:16
Yeah, the question is about the wording for. 00:04:18
BAC membership shall consist of two at large members. I'm just wondering if like future proofing, if we don't have two at large 00:04:21
members, are we still a valid Commission? 00:04:27
Can I respond, Chair? 00:04:35
Yeah, OK. 00:04:36
So the wording was shall just to make sure that we're having some expertise outside of residence in there. So currently we have 00:04:37
Jim Price with over 25, you know, years of experience in. 00:04:45
Anything that BAC is about right and more and Chris will see who's also in the same field professionally. 00:04:53
So when their terms are over, we're hoping to still have people like them to help us move. OK, yeah, that makes sense. But well, 00:05:01
welcome to change it if you would. I think what you were saying is. 00:05:06
Are we required to always have two out of city? 00:05:13
At large members? Or is it just an option to have those two and someday we might go back to just having 5 Vineyard residents 00:05:16
someday? 00:05:20
So maybe we want to word it that. 00:05:25
The membership The two at large members are. 00:05:29
Or maybe that green line the BAC membership may consist of may include two at large members that reside anywhere in the state, but 00:05:33
it's not a requirement to have. 00:05:38
Two at large members outside of the city. I think it's also fine if it's like a directive that we should sneak out. I mean, if 00:05:45
they ever leave us, which you won't ever leave us. 00:05:50
But if you do ever leave us, then I think it's a good directive to seek out expertise where we can find it. But you also don't 00:05:57
want to be like in violation if you just have 5 billion people helping out, so. 00:06:02
So we'll change that to May. 00:06:08
Thank you. And the green part there. And I'm also just circling all the BIC references because that could change the name here. 00:06:12
Can I make a suggestion on that as well while we're making some changes, Anthony and Mr. Chair? 00:06:19
Is since we're talking about at large members and the purpose of at large members. 00:06:27
Why we have that, we're not referencing that anywhere in the in the bylaws. Do we have some mission statement or something else 00:06:33
that references that why you would want to have at large members? 00:06:39
With the just, yeah, it's not real detailed, but just at large, remember Spring experiment. 00:06:46
But I don't read green for some reason. I only read red. 00:06:55
But if you want to elaborate on that, we can add some more. No, I don't think we need to elaborate. I think it's just it's it 00:07:02
should be explicit what the purpose of those at large members are. 00:07:07
Martina, Mike, you have any comments on the changes? 00:07:14
No, I think it's broad enough to to where if we do change the name. 00:07:19
This still fits for the vast majority of what's in here. 00:07:25
Agreed. 00:07:28
Yeah, some of the references to bicycles are quickly followed by. 00:07:30
And other forms of active transportation. 00:07:33
And we can still have goals to be diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:07:39
Kind of encompasses others, but. 00:07:43
Martinez, do you have thoughts? Do we need to elaborate on what Diamond is or is that something that's known across the board for 00:07:46
this one? 00:07:50
In particular, there's some set standards from. 00:07:55
Maybe we could add in according to was it League of American Cyclists or something like that? 00:07:59
Yeah, so I'm looking at Section 2. 00:08:06
2-2 You see that, Anthony? 00:08:12
I think just it's clarity on. 00:08:15
Diamond level bicycle friendly community. 00:08:19
According to. 00:08:21
Yeah, League of American Bicyclists. 00:08:25
OK. Are there any other tiers or awards or for like pedestrian friendly or? 00:08:36
Active transportation, so that that could be something to consider once we if we change the name. 00:08:43
And you said there are some that are focused on pedestrian? 00:08:52
There are multiple tiers within. 00:08:59
The what are the? 00:09:02
Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond for the League of Cyclists, but are there other there are other organizations that have 00:09:06
awards for pedestrian friendliness. 00:09:13
Delete. 00:09:23
Do we want to include that? 00:09:25
We're aiming for these kinds of awards as well, or just limited to the. I think we can say like, yeah, we have a goal of becoming 00:09:28
that, but also pursuing other similar awards or something like that that could. 00:09:35
Leave it open to. 00:09:42
Top scootering destination or something like that, I don't know. 00:09:45
Whatever we want to aspire to. 00:09:50
OK. Any other comments on the changes before we talk about the name? 00:09:53
OK, sorry. Go ahead. 00:10:04
It's a little funky. The eyes and ears part provide a venue for public input and assistance as eyes and ears for issues pertaining 00:10:07
to active transportation in the city. 00:10:12
Yes, I think it. 00:10:17
Yeah, we can. We can reword that if we want to. But basically this Commission. 00:10:19
Is listening to the community and we're out there in the community seeing if there's any issues, so if we want to. 00:10:24
Provide a venue for public input and assistant. 00:10:33
You just take out as eyes and ears for and just assistance for issues pertaining to. 00:10:36
OK. 00:10:44
Yeah, so that would reread provide a venue for public input and assistance. 00:10:48
For issues pertaining to active transportation in the city. 00:10:54
Does that read better Martina for you? 00:10:58
Did you get that, Anthony? I've got my notes jotted down here that I can hand to you afterwards as well. 00:11:05
OK if there's no other comments on actual content changes. 00:11:14
One of the things that we talked about last time in regards to the name change was incorporating the term active transportation. I 00:11:20
checked with Jim, he said that's pretty common. 00:11:25
In Wasatch Front Regional Council has 1, Salt Lake County has one that's called the active transportation Commission. They don't 00:11:32
even say advisory Commission, it's just ATC for a few of these. So that's that's pretty standard. Now we don't have to follow any 00:11:38
of those standards, but I'd love your input and thoughts on what you think this should be named and. 00:11:44
How we can? 00:11:52
Basically, appeal to a broader audience than just those that are bicycling. 00:11:54
Yep, my my only thought on it was we could go even more generic and just be like active vineyard or something. But maybe people 00:12:01
think we'll do yoga in the park If we do that and I'm not comfortable doing you'll be in the. 00:12:08
I think actual transportation Commission is fine. 00:12:16
Yeah. 00:12:20
Thank you. Any comments I make on that. Or is it the active transportation is a commonly used terminology in the in the 00:12:28
profession? 00:12:32
And it's well understood by transportation people. 00:12:36
It's not as well understood by the lay public yet, but it's. 00:12:42
Gaining traction. 00:12:47
And having served on the ATC. 00:12:49
In Salt Lake County for many years. 00:12:53
It's gaining traction up there. It'd be nice to see it gain traction down here. 00:12:57
Do we all feel like that encompasses what we're going for here to include, you know? 00:13:05
Walking, running, cycling, rolling. 00:13:09
Scooters, all that kind of stuff. 00:13:13
Yeah, what would be an example of a passive transportation? 00:13:15
I guess getting pulled in a wagon, pushed in a stroller. 00:13:21
Yeah, I don't know. 00:13:27
Yeah, being driven in a car, I guess so. 00:13:30
Vehicle. 00:13:34
OK. 00:13:36
Is everyone OK then with active transportation Commission? 00:13:40
This would all be subject to approval by the City Council, I'm assuming with the OK. So these are just recommendations that we 00:13:44
that would be making okay. 00:13:48
And yeah, you can let us know when we would present these and we can make sure at least one of us is there to kind of speak 00:13:53
through some of the reasoning. 00:13:56
We have a member of the Council here today, so thanks for being here. 00:14:00
So yeah, let's just note then if we do change to or recommend Active Transportation Commission. 00:14:06
That. 00:14:12
BAC and Bicycle Advisory Commission would need to be updated throughout this. 00:14:14
Document. 00:14:19
Looks like they're on. 00:14:23
Most every page, most every section has something. 00:14:25
That refers to that. 00:14:28
Certainly have copies of bylaws from like Salt Lake County or other active transportation commissions to see. 00:14:31
How we would compare? 00:14:37
And if we're missing anything or that's a good idea. 00:14:39
They should all be. If they're like, truly approved by cities, then they should all be public. 00:14:43
But I think that. 00:14:54
That speaks to something else that I'd love to chat about more. It's just like kind of benchmarking and partnering with other 00:14:56
like. 00:14:59
What's Orem doing that's going well or that we want to make sure we don't do or Yeah, that's always a good idea. 00:15:02
So, Mike, are you proposing another iteration of this or? 00:15:14
Uh, no, I. 00:15:19
I think just to compare and contrast, I guess what we've got versus what else is out there. 00:15:21
Yeah, I think that's so. 00:15:26
OK, well. 00:15:32
Let's do, let's, let's do this then. I think it'd be good for us to put forward a recommendation to the council on what we've got 00:15:33
here just for some quick updates. But I think maybe for our future meeting, just benchmarking in general and maybe we could pull 00:15:41
in some like regional best practices. Jordan, and I'll be a part of it as well, is going to the Connected Communities Summit 00:15:48
tomorrow and Thursday. And I think there's some sessions that are actually on that and like resources. So maybe you'll have some. 00:15:55
Bring back to us. 00:16:03
All right, so on items 3-1 and three, two are there is there any more discussion that you want to have before we? 00:16:05
Make a motions for Anthony to pull this together to present to council. 00:16:12
I like to add, add that we don't need to present the bylaws to council. That would be we'll make a motion here and it becomes, you 00:16:21
know, it goes into effect right away, but the name would need a recommendation to council. Yeah, got it. 00:16:28
OK. So we only need a motion on the bylaw update? 00:16:39
Under bylaw, just to recommend the name change. OK, so we'll keep those separate. So let's do the bylaws first if someone's got a 00:16:43
motion to. 00:16:47
Make the updates as we discussed today and I have on the screen the recommendation from staff. 00:16:53
There we go. 00:17:02
Yeah. So I moved to adopt the revised bylaw document for the BAC, potentially AATC now. 00:17:06
Oh, I see. OK. 00:17:18
Condition with the condition that we are going to update the name to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:17:20
And the. 00:17:27
Handful of other changes that we've talked about today. 00:17:28
Anthony has had enough info for you on that so we got. 00:17:31
Motion by Jordan. Do I have a second for that second, Jim, with the second all in favor? 00:17:35
OK. Thank you for that. 00:17:44
And now just to keep that separate business item 3.2, the Bicycle Advisory Commission name change, we will, this is about 00:17:47
recommending a name change. So if I can get a motion, we we talked about the Active Transportation Commission, but if you have a 00:17:52
motion for something else, you're welcome to make that as well. 00:17:57
Yes. 00:18:09
I moved to recommend the your Microsoft. 00:18:16
I move to recommend the name change for the Bicycle Advisory Commission to the Active Transportation Commission. 00:18:21
All right. That was Martina. Thank you. Do I have a second? A second? Hey, Mike, with the second all in favor? 00:18:29
OK. So that will be presented to council and they'll be able to choose one way or another and then we'll make sure the bylaws 00:18:36
reflect. If that's not approved, then it'll stay BAC. If not ATC. 00:18:42
So we will be moving this into the next Planning City Council meeting. So it will be in the agenda. I will be sure to send you an 00:18:48
e-mail with an update on. 00:18:53
Whatever is going to happen or need someone to speak about it, great, SO. 00:18:58
OK OK. 00:19:03
All right, we'll move to business item 3.3, the ordinance amendment about mobility devices and golf carts, and it will answer the 00:19:04
question, are golf carts active transportation? 00:19:09
OK. Thanks for the opportunity to be here. 00:19:23
If you don't know me, my name is Brian I. 00:19:27
The parks director. 00:19:30
And I'm excited that we have this advisory group. I think it's super awesome and going to bring just a ton of value to Vineyard 00:19:33
that already has. 00:19:38
And I've noticed there's an increase in. 00:19:46
Electric type vehicles such as bikes, golf carts. 00:19:51
Dirt bikes, whatever it might be, lots of things throughout the city. And so I specifically want to come to you with this policy. 00:19:56
Regarding golf carts and E bikes. 00:20:06
Of. 00:20:09
How do we best regulate the usage of them in our parks? We've had a number of issues recently come up to where? 00:20:12
On recreation game nights we have golf carts that are zooming through the field. 00:20:22
In between games. 00:20:30
And there's been a lot of parents that have expressed their frustration and worry that there's going to be a potential accident. 00:20:32
There's been several close calls. And, you know, we get dirt bikes that cruise through the park or we get E bikes that go through 00:20:39
the splash pad. 00:20:46
Anyway, so we are in the process of trying to figure out how do we still allow all of these types of vehicles. 00:20:57
But regulate them in a way that we can help ensure. 00:21:03
Improve safety at parks. 00:21:08
So I kind of want to make this an open discussion. 00:21:12
But before I do that, kind of the latest of what we've talked about is with golf carts to still make it encouraging for people to 00:21:17
drive those because I think that it's beneficial to have these. 00:21:23
Alternative routes of transportation because it takes up less parking spots there's. 00:21:30
It just, it can be a lot easier for families to have golf carts to bring all their stuff they don't have to, you know, plug 00:21:37
everything from their car. 00:21:41
But the latest that we've come up with is having a standard that with golf carts, anyone that brings a golf cart to the park, they 00:21:46
would just need to park it within 10 feet of the trail or a sidewalk. So that way there's not any driving of the golf carts on the 00:21:54
field during games. 00:22:01
That way it's not any type of hazard to the kid while games are going. 00:22:09
But maybe just to start from there, I want to hear your guys's thoughts. You guys, I feel like are much more expert in this than I 00:22:14
am when it comes to knowledge of bikes and what that looks like. So what are regulations you would recommend? And then after we 00:22:21
have this discussion, I also want to know your thoughts on what could we do? 00:22:28
From a city standpoint to make our parks more bike friendly. 00:22:37
So let's first start out and just I want to hear your thoughts about what could we do to help regulate? 00:22:42
The usage of electric type vehicles. 00:22:48
Yeah, thoughts. 00:22:56
Yeah, I like the idea of just like park it within. 00:23:01
10 feet of the trail or sidewalk. 00:23:05
Do you think they would extend to like E bikes also or or only golf carts? 00:23:08
We're trying to decide. 00:23:14
Is where do we go with that? With the E bikes? Some concerns that we've had is. 00:23:18
We have limited space in between each field and so you have parents that sit on each side of the field. 00:23:26
And so when people park their bikes in between the fields, it could potentially be a barrier to people trying to walk through, 00:23:33
walk around, or they're running into parents or whatever it might be. So that's a potential concern. 00:23:40
But I'm open to your feedback on that. 00:23:49
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good idea. So when we. 00:23:53
Take our kids to play soccer at the games. Occasionally we'll park, like you were saying, kind of in between the fields. And it's 00:23:57
a bit disruptive, to be fair. 00:24:01
I think just expanding it to say golf carts and E bikes, you should just park them along the sides. 00:24:09
And that leaves kind of flexibility for people to interpret is like, oh, well, if I have a normal bike with a trailer that I bring 00:24:18
my kids on, then I'm OK to be in the middle and I think that's fine. Or even like a smaller E bike with the trailer with kids I 00:24:24
think is also fine. I think it's more the once you get like even into the. 00:24:31
Kids writing on the back of your E bike that's. 00:24:39
Pretty substantial footprint of something to accommodate on the field. 00:24:42
Just with that, is there any concern with someone potentially stealing the bike if we? 00:24:47
By the sidewalk. That's why there's been kind of a like people want to keep it near them. 00:24:53
I mean with a golf cart, do you think pee out and. 00:25:00
But with the bike is a little bit different. 00:25:04
So I'm open to. 00:25:08
What are your thoughts on having a designated spot for these? 00:25:11
Or are we just saying free game for everybody across the? 00:25:17
Field. 00:25:23
Like a golf cart and E bike parking area, right Right. 00:25:25
Also, are we trying to find a solution for a very narrow? 00:25:30
Situation like, because I guess I'm here during soccer games, but like say a soccer game isn't on there. Are we still trying to 00:25:34
find similar regulations or rules all the time even if there's no soccer game going on? 00:25:41
I think, yes, I think it's more so an issue on game days of recreation events like high traffic general, which is kind of why it's 00:25:49
kind of a multi faceted issue, right? So I brought up this picture because I wanted to show you. So this is Grove Park. There's a 00:25:58
sidewalk that goes east West just on the north side of the field. And I would say this is where we have the most potential issues. 00:26:07
Is when we have, you know, E scooters or E bikes. 00:26:16
Typically it's young kids, it's teenagers. They go flying on this sidewalk here where you have people getting out of their cars 00:26:21
coming onto the sidewalk, or you've got this NS sidewalk here where kids are flying down and there's been. 00:26:29
Very close injuries happening right here at this corner. 00:26:38
Here just I'm sure. 00:26:43
Kind of all along. 00:26:46
That pathway. So there's been talk, you know, do we? 00:26:47
Prevent usage of. 00:26:50
Any type of electric vehicles on those two specific sidewalks. 00:26:53
Regulate that I'm not entirely. 00:26:58
I just want to get since you guys are the buying experts. 00:27:01
Of yeah. 00:27:05
We just want to find out. 00:27:07
I'm personally much more concerned about the movement of these vehicles on trails and sidewalks. And I am about where they park. 00:27:08
Like there could be a day where I'm where I'm bugged about where it's parked maybe. But like that's not, I don't know. It's it's 00:27:16
more about like, yeah, if my kids riding a scooter on a trail on a golf carts coming at them and my kid has to go off the trail 00:27:23
because that's coming by and it basically becomes like another Rd. like that. That's more what I'm concerned about regulating. 00:27:31
And I would about where it parks, but what if we had signs or something that's just for visibility for these writers, just to be 00:27:38
mindful of pedestrians or, you know, well, that was again, I'm going back to like actually on the trail, but like, I don't know if 00:27:46
you've seen these before. I think Murdoch Canal trail has some which they don't allow, like golf carts and things like that. But 00:27:53
like where you've got multi use and it's like, well, people who are walking, people who are on a skateboard, scooter, bike or. 00:28:01
Cases someone on a horse, but that could be like a cart or something like that. And it would just basically show if you're in a 00:28:09
golf cart, you yield to everyone, no one's yielding. You're the low on the low person there. And if you had a few of those signs 00:28:16
that might help. But I don't know if that solves the issue that you're that you're looking for, but I would hope that like by 00:28:24
default in that area that like people walking have priority. Maybe it's a bike dismount area maybe. 00:28:31
Yeah, I don't know. Whatever. 00:28:40
Whatever approach we want to take there, I think, I think it's smart for the city though to like say we need to have some rules in 00:28:42
place to provide some safety because. 00:28:46
If someone got hurt and there's no rules in place, my guess is there's probably some liability. So well, and I'd be curious too, 00:28:51
of the close calls, what percentage of those was a 12 year old driving the golf cart versus an adult? So I don't know that it's 00:28:57
more the parking or like access, but who's actually operating the vehicle. And that I don't know if you can regulate that because 00:29:04
even even like an ATVI think you're supposed to be 16 years old. 00:29:11
Or a licensed driver and things like that, 'cause like, I think part of what makes Vineyard cool is we do have this like rural 00:29:18
heritage where people were zipping around on ATVs and things like that. I don't know if we'll ever get back to that necessarily. 00:29:24
I was talking to my wife about this. She's like, just have him make a really wide bike lanes and then everyone can use that. It's 00:29:30
like, hey, I like the sound of it. That's how like in Arizona where there's golf courses everywhere. They've got the lane for the 00:29:34
cards, but. 00:29:38
Again. 00:29:43
I think the part of the issue too is the Gulf hurts are going down the sidewalk even not necessarily the sidewalks that are 00:29:45
widened, but just sidewalks like on Center St. And then it's only wide enough for the golf cart and you're going to hopefully 00:29:50
trust a 12 year old not to hit you so. 00:29:55
Yeah. Have there, have there been like infrastructure damage at all like like those running over like sprinkler heads or like 00:30:01
things like that? Is that taking place as well? Because like I think we should think about like what, what other thing, what other 00:30:07
issues are being caused by this that we want to try to address while still allowing for like. 00:30:13
It's a fun unique thing here and like no one wants to shut it down. I just making sure that like. 00:30:21
You know, your little kid doesn't have to be. You know, the beauty of the trails is that you don't have to have your head on a 00:30:27
swivel wondering like if you're going to get hit. Like that's the whole point of a trail. So yeah, there was one incident where a 00:30:31
team. 00:30:35
In that golf cart. 00:30:39
Hit a fence. 00:30:41
Around the park and damage the fence. So that was one incident. The other one is kind of mainly more on roads we had. 00:30:43
A number of teenagers in a golf cart that we're going around the roundabout at Center St. and Main Street right as a car was 00:30:51
coming up. They weren't watching, barely dodged the car and were at the same time an E scooter went right through so. 00:30:59
Thankfully there was number injuries with that, but just given the situation we want to definitely get. 00:31:07
Can we set an age requirement for the golf carts? 00:31:15
Because if you do 16 they have to go through like drivers. 00:31:20
Permit. 00:31:26
Yeah, you could say like licensed drivers or something like that. 00:31:28
But again, I hate to be too prescriptive cuz it's like, again, let's kinda like the cool fun stuff about a golf cart is that it's 00:31:31
not a car, right? And so I don't know. 00:31:36
Good night. Hop in on that thing. 00:31:42
One of the things about and I find this interesting because as I was driving here this meeting and I saw exactly what we were 00:31:47
talking about in that field. 00:31:52
Golf carts don't belong anywhere. 00:31:59
Is the problem they don't Rd. along on the road? 00:32:03
They don't really belong on trails. 00:32:08
You know, but I sure as heck don't belong on sidewalks. 00:32:11
So where do they belong? 00:32:14
Golf carts are a different animal than E scooters and E bikes because of their size and weight. 00:32:17
And same with cars, same with ATVs. 00:32:25
Their size, weight, power is a different animal than a person on a scooter or person on that. 00:32:31
On an E bike. 00:32:37
Well, not all golf carts are created equally. There's some pretty burly golf carts. Yes, that's correct. 00:32:40
So it it, I think it kind of comes down to we need to define as a city what? 00:32:48
We're trying to do. 00:32:55
And what our goal, our values are? 00:32:57
Do we value the ability to drive a golf cart? 00:33:00
Within. 00:33:04
Off of a golf course or off off of private property? On public property? Anywhere on public property. 00:33:05
Or do we say, no, that's not an appropriate use on public property, including on trails, including on sidewalks, including on 00:33:12
streets? 00:33:15
Or do we say, yes, that is appropriate on streets because you don't allow ATVs on trails, you don't allow ATVs on sidewalks? 00:33:21
And. 00:33:32
They're more closely correlated in my mind to a golf cart. 00:33:34
In size and weight and that kind of thing. 00:33:39
That's speed, kind of, but. 00:33:44
The purpose is more correlated. 00:33:48
To that. 00:33:51
And in Utah, we've said that. 00:33:54
ATV's, if they're licensed, can be driven by a licensed driver on the street. 00:33:59
Can we do the same thing, or has that been addressed in state law in any way? 00:34:06
I'm with, with, I don't know. 00:34:10
Other. 00:34:12
Things like golf carts or other. A golf cart is a. 00:34:15
In my mind. 00:34:20
A really mellow ATV. It's electric powered. 00:34:23
Like the original side by sides. 00:34:27
So where does it really go and if it doesn't really belong anywhere? 00:34:32
Kind of that's kind of where you have to start. 00:34:38
Where does it belong and where can we allow it? I think allow. You don't want to continue to encourage people to. 00:34:41
Bring a golf cart. 00:34:50
By giving them a place to park. 00:34:53
If you're not going to give them a place to get from home to that place to park first, a route, yeah. 00:34:56
Nothing is that I think we have to be really careful about regulating, trying to regulate E bikes. 00:35:05
And this is and I'm putting this in air quotes for the record. 00:35:13
E bikes versus regular bikes. 00:35:18
I have both, I ride both. 00:35:22
I've built both. 00:35:26
I know the the capabilities and the upsides and the downsides of both. 00:35:29
The upside of an E bike is that. 00:35:34
If I leave, if I go over that hill, I know I can get back over that hill. 00:35:38
It doesn't matter how old I am or how out of shape I am, I know I can usually get back over that hill. If I do that on my road 00:35:44
bike, I'm not sure I can always get back over that. 00:35:48
So there's a purpose to E bikes and there's a there's a public policy I. 00:35:54
Quality of life issue with E bikes is we want people to leave their cars at home, right? We want them to be more active, we want 00:36:06
to give them more freedom of choice. 00:36:11
And E bikes do exactly that. 00:36:17
To a certain point, an E bikes become a problem where they're too fast, they're too heavy, they're not being written responsibly. 00:36:21
But of course, normal bikes are not written responsibly either. 00:36:26
Let's say if it wasn't an E bike that's riding out over the grass, maybe it's going to be a mountain bike. Something, not somebody 00:36:33
on a mountain bike is doing this exactly the same thing? 00:36:38
And so I think you first have to start with what are we trying to do? What are, what are our values and what do we want to allow 00:36:43
and what do we want to? 00:36:48
Encourage people to do and what we want to discourage people from doing. 00:36:54
And that's just the start. I think putting signs up is a start. My experience has been that people don't pay attention to signs. 00:36:58
Whether they see them or not. 00:37:10
They do pay attention to being ticketed. 00:37:12
Which the a sign would be a precursor. Usually a precursor. I would never want to discourage a kid. Say the ordinance would be 00:37:16
precursors, sure. I just never would have wanted to discourage a kid. 00:37:23
Even E biking to practice because the alternative is OK, dad, get in the car and drive me over there. You know, like. So yeah, we 00:37:29
got to think about the consequences with some of that unintended consequences of banning or allowing. 00:37:36
Exactly what we're what we're trying to focus on trying to figure out. 00:37:44
Same thing with E scooters as opposed to just push scooters. 00:37:52
E Scooters. 00:37:56
Heck of a lot of fun to ride. Heck of a lot more fun than push scooters. 00:37:58
And I see them everywhere and I see people flying on those and I see people without how much, which just makes me. 00:38:02
But then I say, and I see people on motorcycles, helmets and so it's the same thing but. 00:38:12
One thing I might suggest. 00:38:20
Is that the city? 00:38:23
Do some research on you know, we were talking about. 00:38:26
What the weather ATC's do? What do other cities do? 00:38:30
I'm sure that there are other cities that I'm 100% sure that there are other cities that have tried to tackle what's very same, 00:38:34
including Salt Lake City. 00:38:37
And especially with it with the E scooters and E bikes. 00:38:42
And they've been. 00:38:47
Somewhat successful in their approach. 00:38:50
But I don't think they've had to deal with. 00:38:53
Things like. 00:38:56
Golf carts yet? 00:38:58
And so. 00:39:01
That may be something, I don't know, Anthony, if I just sent a text to Dan Wayne and Mag to ask if it would be appropriate to do a 00:39:03
like a. 00:39:09
Tag study. Technical assistance study. 00:39:17
Looking at this, at this very thing. 00:39:22
And kind of help maybe the rest of the cities within. 00:39:26
Utah County or within Utah start to address this. 00:39:30
Vineyard is by far not alone. Noises everywhere. 00:39:33
Just to go off that too, there's been some regulations that other. 00:39:40
Cities that put in regarding the type of E bike so like those that you know can go home. 00:39:44
Right. So that's kind of one potential thing that we can do, but I mean there's a million situations that. 00:39:54
A good looking for saying it. 00:40:05
But this has been helpful to get your guys thoughts on this. So well I had one other thing. So without. 00:40:16
By default, like carving out like a full throated endorsement of golf carts, right? By doing some of these things, I think we can 00:40:25
address some of the issues by like anything that's concrete there on this screen. What if that was a? 00:40:31
Dismount pedestrian only, wheelchair only. 00:40:40
Right. And so it's like I'm not riding my bike through there. 00:40:43
While people are, you know, while games are in session or something like that, it's really just for people walking or using 00:40:47
wheelchairs or. 00:40:51
That's all it's for. On the concrete like that might be something to look at. 00:40:55
And then the other thing I was thinking of on the trails. 00:41:01
Again, enforcement. I don't know if you'd ever do this, but. 00:41:04
If you said there's a 15 mile an hour limit on the trails, is that OK? So like, maybe making that known? Because again, like a 00:41:07
responsible mom driving a golf cart 5 miles an hour on the trail doesn't really like concern me that much. Maybe someday it will. 00:41:14
If there's, you know, 500 of them, who knows? 00:41:21
But it's it's the people like tearing around going real fast that that that's where dangerous things are going to happen. So. 00:41:29
Maybe it's just education, like, especially if there's stuff already in place, Maybe it's just like, hey, let's double down on 00:41:36
this and make sure that that's not a problem. 00:41:40
Just a couple thoughts. There's the other. 00:41:44
MM goes over 15 miles an hour on his bike. 00:41:48
Just don't tell on me. I know they're trying to watch on Murdoch. 00:41:52
I will say, and this is not bragging, but this is because I was being chased by a lightning storm coming down Provo Canyon on my 00:41:58
road bike. I hit 35, which for me is slow. I mean for me is fast. 00:42:03
For the professionals, that's you're not really going very fast. 00:42:14
Regular bikes can go just as fast as your bikes in certain situations. E bikes make it easier for people who are less experienced 00:42:19
to go faster. Is it kind of where it causes problems? 00:42:25
One of the things that I might also suggest here is that in addition to signage, it may be some physical barriers. And that seems 00:42:32
to work really well on where you've got where you've got limited access or yeah, like like the the boardwalk, I don't know if 00:42:38
you've seen that. It's got a little bollard in the middle. There's no golf carts that go across that. 00:42:45
One other thought I had to especially if we want to address those that don't have licenses but still want to drive. 00:42:53
If the city did a program, maybe even a revenue generating opportunity to say, hey, you got to go through this course and you have 00:43:00
to get a permit, right? And it's just for the use in, in within Vineyard so that if something does happen and they're not 00:43:07
permitted or they don't have the permit or whatever, right? At least we're trying to educate and be proactive on that front and 00:43:14
explain the rules as opposed to just letting them run around wherever, right? And then hoping that they don't get an accident. 00:43:21
Awesome. Yeah, I think that's great. 00:43:30
There's a sorry, I was going to add two more things. So on BYU campus, you can't ride your bike during the class breaks, which I 00:43:34
think works really well because there's a ton of people walking there, but you can any other time. So I wonder if just during 00:43:39
events we just have a sign says walk your bike and just put it at like. 00:43:44
The North End of that. 00:43:51
Because if you show up on a Tuesday at 3:00 PM to that park, you can ride your bike around there no problem. The other one is that 00:43:54
there's a city in Georgia called Peachtree City, I think, that has a ton of golf carts, like everywhere. Like people write them to 00:44:01
high school people write them to. 00:44:08
Go see grandma, whatever. And it doesn't seem like their trust system is that much wider than ours. So I'd be curious to see like 00:44:16
how they actually manage it because they have like a dedicated trail system and everybody just uses it for golf carts. And maybe 00:44:22
they just have like enough people only doing golf carts and not kids biking. But I would imagine that little kids ride their bikes 00:44:28
on those trails also. And so I'd be curious to see how they. 00:44:34
Actually manage that if they really do have like separated infrastructure for golf carts versus bikes versus walking or. 00:44:41
They just have a culture of. 00:44:48
Golf carts actually yield to everybody or I don't know, but it's the same in Arizona to in certain spots. 00:44:51
The golf carts yield to the bikes, but in the bike path is much larger and it has a picture of a golf cart and a bike. So the golf 00:44:56
cart just yields to the bike. It's one of the one of the first issues and that's a great comment about the width. 00:45:05
Is there actually width for a bike and a golf cart to share a path safely? 00:45:14
Typically in the in the 8 to 10 feet. 00:45:21
Of trail that we have in most of the cities in Utah, the answer that's an easy no. It's pretty cool. 00:45:24
Golf carts are just way too big. 00:45:32
But it could be like Main Street, Center Street, where you got the bike image on the far right lane you could put a golf cart. 00:45:35
Logo there too. 00:45:41
Force everybody on the road. Yeah. I mean, there's, there's a lot of like unused space on our roads that even cars don't occupy 00:45:43
the median for 95% of the time. 00:45:48
There you go. I mean repainting our Rd. 00:45:55
Inside and a golf cart laying on the outside. 00:46:00
And the golf cart lane protects the bike lane from the traffic and the 12 year old driving the golf. 00:46:03
Just wear a helmet. Yeah, Transition now into. 00:46:10
What can the Vineyard City do to make our parks more bike? 00:46:13
I think one one thing is that you have you currently have bike parking, right? 00:46:24
They have places for people to lock, put their bikes and lock them. 00:46:29
We have some, there could be more closer to the fields I think probably. 00:46:35
And if you're playing way down here? 00:46:44
Bike up here and that's that's pretty far to. 00:46:46
So I don't know if there's, you know, for bike parking by these or something. 00:46:51
I feel like routes would be. 00:46:58
Helpful. 00:47:01
As in like. 00:47:02
Like visually? 00:47:05
Designatings. 00:47:09
Like a route or something. 00:47:11
Like with a trail map? Yeah, yeah. Like this is the recommended route for bike users or something like that. 00:47:13
Which we'd probably have to do some study on, like OK, this is. 00:47:23
But yeah, it's kind of the idea of like safe routes to school, but like safe routes to our city amenities like. 00:47:28
Parks. 00:47:34
That could be good. 00:47:37
And are we thinking like, hey, you can ride your bike on the grass or is it mainly for cemented areas or? 00:47:41
I don't know what other options there are. 00:47:53
For big events, which I don't know if that falls underneath Parks and Recreation, but. 00:47:58
We had talked about. 00:48:04
Using the tennis courts, pickleball courts is like a. 00:48:06
More safe, secure bike parking if it's like. 00:48:10
Like that 911 event that we just did, or the Heritage Days where it's really big. 00:48:14
We threw out the ideas, but we didn't really execute, you know, in time for some of that stuff. But yeah. 00:48:18
In future years, I think that could be a good one to look at too. 00:48:25
You're talking to the right guy. He's the he's all in charge of all these things because I know parking can be tight. 00:48:29
For like just a regular Saturday morning events, but I think you guys do a pretty good job and. 00:48:37
It's not like a deal breaker, but for like heritage days, there's probably some people that don't show up. 00:48:42
Because parking so bad or it's so hard, or there's some people. 00:48:47
That have to drive and don't have the so like the people that don't need to drive, you know, giving them an easy, easy way. I 00:48:51
think that's one one thing that could help. That's more event management though, than like infrastructure for the park. 00:48:57
I think I'm just like a normal no event, no programming going on at the park. 00:49:06
Things are pretty good, I agree. 00:49:12
Maybe the, maybe the. 00:49:15
Bike parking at. 00:49:17
At Grove Park is not the best in the world, but. 00:49:20
Like most of the time people just kind of pull up and. 00:49:23
Park right next to the bench or next to whatever they're doing there and. 00:49:27
It's not like we're at capacity on a. 00:49:32
Normal day or whatever, I think it's really the event. 00:49:37
Where there's a ton of people or even like after the. 00:49:40
The parade. 00:49:47
Down at the Sunset Beach Park and around there seemed like there was. 00:49:50
Yeah, just kind of confusion around like, yeah, I rode my bike here and that's great and now I just leave it here or. 00:49:55
Like what do I do? 00:50:02
And so people kind of just do what they assume is best or assume is acceptable. 00:50:04
So yeah, I think having. 00:50:10
I think having a strategy around how we're going to handle bikes or bigger events, which. 00:50:12
Would be great if we can staff that all the time. 00:50:18
If not at least having kind of a designated area, I think we could. 00:50:21
Is it likely that those with E bikes? 00:50:26
Feel comfortable even just locking their bike into a bike rack. 00:50:29
Or is that not? 00:50:32
I don't ride an ebike, but I ride a bike that I still wouldn't lock up to to. 00:50:38
I don't, but that's just me and I'm OCD about it. But yeah, yeah. 00:50:44
So something to consider. Funny because I'm just the opposite. I have a. 00:50:49
I wouldn't. 00:50:54
I wouldn't lock up my road bike. 00:50:55
But I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind writing with a big heavy chain on my E bike. And I've done that because I don't want to carry that 00:50:58
chain, that big heavy chain on my road bike anywhere. 00:51:04
I think I think generally people, especially people with like maybe in my demographic, if you have kids and you have an E bike are 00:51:10
pretty LAX about like even locking their bike up anywhere, which I think is probably a cultural shift that we should change. I 00:51:17
think one thing that we could do to try to incentivize that behavior of like, you know, you should like lock up your bike or know 00:51:24
where it is is. 00:51:30
Work on the bike registration stuff. 00:51:38
Just to kind of shed awareness to like somebody might steal your bike. Like we live in a nice city, but somebody might still come 00:51:40
steal your bike. And so let's get it registered and let's have a plan in place of. 00:51:47
Where you going to park your bike when it's out in public and. 00:51:54
And whatever. 00:51:57
Yeah. But yeah, to summarize my thoughts on, I think the parks are great and that's evidenced by like, just like how many people 00:51:58
ride their bike there. Like we do a pretty good job, but if you got more places to sit. 00:52:04
Like a cement pad that has a bench and a bike rack and a few of those around, like close to the trail so that you can kind of 00:52:11
spectate like, I think that would go a long way. And did your question center on events or just like parks in general? 00:52:18
OK. 00:52:26
OK this isn't a park, but I guess the park strip next to bus stations if we could get like a bike rack there. 00:52:29
That'd be cool. I've seen people. 00:52:38
Like or where the like the junior high and elementary bus stops are because yeah, some of the kids. 00:52:40
Yeah, they want a bike or scooter to the bus stop. I know the city did a good job out there. They put one just right here. Yeah, 00:52:51
that was really smart, like, and I think they could probably use that in other places. It's probably tough though, because maybe 00:52:57
the school district arbitrarily changes pick up spots too, so I get it. But where it makes sense, like I know some of them are 00:53:02
near like detention ponds and things like that where it's just kind of unused area. You could throw some racks and things there. 00:53:08
Well this is great. Thanks for your time and forgiving. 00:53:15
Feedback So I'll definitely do more research into this and work with Holden. Who? 00:53:20
And have more to say. What happens on the streets? Yeah. 00:53:27
Just, I'm sure this will kind of be an ongoing conversation. We'll find all the solutions in one night, but. 00:53:33
Maybe we did, yes. 00:53:39
Thank you for that. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for coming. And like, yeah, I think overall, like they're fun as long as people are safe, 00:53:42
right? And I think that's all you're trying to go for. So that's good. 00:53:47
I have one more thing for the park because I am long winded. Sometimes the bike pump nozzle, the rubber in there wears out, 00:53:52
especially along the Murdoch trail. Like all of those are kind of worthless because the the rubber doesn't really work very well, 00:53:58
especially over like winter. It just gets like dried up and doesn't seal properly. So what's the best thing? Like if someone sees 00:54:04
that just do the like the report a concern on the OK. 00:54:10
What if there's like a sticker or something we could put on those like if it's not working like? 00:54:18
Scan this QR code and yeah, that might message Anthony Jenkins. Yeah, yeah, here's Anthony. 00:54:23
Sure, I've got. 00:54:30
I can't do anything about it, but but that's not just for bike stuff. Like if you saw a swing was broken, like you'd probably want 00:54:32
to know that stuff, right? 00:54:36
You better leave before we give you more feedback. 00:54:43
OK, thanks. 00:54:52
Anthony, that, that, that was a business item, but there's no action needed on that one, right? It was more just kind of talking 00:54:55
through. 00:54:57
OK. 00:55:01
So the conversation we had had before this presentation was he'd take the comments and possibly. 00:55:03
Have them all presented as so our comments could be put into motion. 00:55:10
To him to be treated as a recommendation to counsel. 00:55:16
So we still have to make a motion. 00:55:21
Before we end that. 00:55:23
That business item? 00:55:26
So, OK, so we could we could ask for someone to make a motion. 00:55:28
For Brian to incorporate our feedback into the code changes that they are recommending. OK. 00:55:32
Well, yeah, I know none of us concisely did that, but you were taking some notes here and it's recorded so you can go back. But 00:55:39
anyone want to make a motion so moved? 00:55:43
Yeah. So Jordans making a motion that Anthony set out there, anyone second? 00:55:49
I second it. All right, Martin, with a second all in favor. 00:55:57
Aye, OK. 00:56:01
Right, you've got our you've got our blessing to go forward with that then. 00:56:04
OK. All right. We'll now move on to staff, Commission and committee reports. Let's start with the Commission. We'll just go down 00:56:08
the line and see if there's anything that you wanted to share, anything top of mind. 00:56:13
I just had one. Maybe it's a stretch because I think part of what we're trying to do is connect all the trails, not just with 00:56:19
inventory but other parts of the county. Is there any way to work with Provo to like redo that Provo River Trail? It is insanely 00:56:27
horrible. Well, I don't know if anybody's ridden it from like the mouth of Provo Canyon back. Like there's no more markings 00:56:34
anymore. They painted them all out so people just walk wherever they ride bikes wherever. 00:56:41
I don't know. I'm just like going through the city itself. Do we have like a special favor or somebody we know that we could talk 00:56:50
about that? 00:56:53
So. 00:56:58
Jordan Jordan's gonna see some bike Provo people and I will too tomorrow. And it's to the point where like I try not to go down 00:56:59
that trail anymore. I it's insanely horrible. My mountain bike if I do a lot. 00:57:05
For some of the like the root because they flattened some of the root areas out, but it's still just another redoing Some of the 00:57:11
underpasses too like by the river and under. 00:57:15
Widening them a little bit, but it's very. 00:57:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't know the answer on that or somebody has a phone number I could call every day until somebody does 00:57:24
something. But yeah, I think if I just look at that and zoom out a little bit like you're basically just saying regional trail 00:57:29
infrastructure and making sure that. 00:57:33
What we have adds to the value of that and everyone else is also trying to keep their regional trails. 00:57:39
I like that, yeah, it's more PC wave approaching it. 00:57:45
I have a name and a number. If you would like that I would love that. 00:57:50
Happy shared with that I would I would suggest that your first. 00:57:54
There are actually 3. 00:57:59
Different agencies that should be in contact with the city should be in contact with. 00:58:02
1st is going to be MAG. 00:58:09
They're going to be Calvin Clark. 00:58:11
I was doing what I used to do. 00:58:14
Or at least took my spot. 00:58:17
This is something actually that. 00:58:25
It's funny bring this up. 00:58:28
In the, in the, in the context of things that we're doing, these are, these are generational changes, these are, these are long 00:58:30
term changes to the infrastructure. 00:58:34
It always takes a long time, a lot longer than we'd like. 00:58:38
A lot longer than than anybody wants, and they're always more expensive than anybody wants. 00:58:42
But if they're done right. 00:58:49
Than they're going to be done right for a very long time. 00:58:51
And that's one of the reasons that I would encourage. 00:58:55
Connection first with mag #1 because Calvin has expertise in this, he has contacts. 00:58:59
Between all the cities and the county and UW and everybody who would be a shareholder in doing something like that. 00:59:08
And two, because MAG is a Funding Agency, they bring a lot of money to the table. 00:59:16
For reconstruct, constructing and reconstructing trails. In fact, the reconstruction of the Pearl River Trail along University 00:59:22
Ave. 00:59:27
Was funded by MAG OK. 00:59:32
And. 00:59:37
That one still has paint and and and 3rd paint is they'll have to talk offline about paint. Just as long as it gets a smooth 00:59:40
surface. Like you look at Murdoch, that's a great trail, even though there's really no paint on it, but it's still smooth, it's 00:59:45
wide enough. 00:59:51
You get on that purple river trail and there's like gaps, like, I don't know, it's yeah, that's maintenance issue. Small child 00:59:58
could fall in one of those. Yeah. Same with with Jordan Trail. It's it's a. 01:00:03
It's a maintenance issue. 01:00:10
And the third one will be Utah County, because they're all. 01:00:12
That's good. 01:00:16
But yeah, I like that. And I think if you if you chat with Matt, give us an update next time because I think what Vineyard wants 01:00:18
to do, we've got. 01:00:23
You know, the trail to from my neighborhood to Grove Park is not going to be part of a regional trail network, but along the lake 01:00:28
like that, that fits in and that should all be part of a cohesive network, right? So I think that's that's good. 01:00:35
Jim, do you have anything? 01:00:45
I feel like I've said more than I should have. 01:00:48
All right, well, if you do have things, feel free to speak up. 01:00:52
One thing that I just wanted to bring up and Nassim actually did a report a concern on this. There's a there's a couple places in 01:00:56
the city where. 01:01:00
The trails will dead end into like a park strip, but I mean it's not the end of the world. You can turn right and go over to 01:01:07
someones driveway and down. But you know, if you're in a wheelchair or you know, rollerblading or roller skating like it, it might 01:01:13
be a little more disruptive than you know, like on a bike. So I'm just identifying some of those areas. I don't think that's like 01:01:20
the highest priority, but I think it's probably good to have on some. 01:01:27
Plan somewhere, you know, if there's, because I think they're probably fairly inexpensive projects too. So if there's just a list 01:01:34
of like, hey, if we've got budget at the end of the year, you know, we could. 01:01:39
Add that additional. 01:01:44
Sidewalk or trail that connects it to the road or you know, grind the curb down South. It's an ADA ramp or whatever it might be. 01:01:46
So anyway, I just was going to bring that up because there's there's a few places that are like that. 01:01:51
Yeah, so we did the bike to the UVU. 01:01:59
Walk and roll to Campus Day. 01:02:05
Anthony and I rode and we had one other person join us on the scooter. Made a few connections with people there. Met two people 01:02:09
actually who live in Vineyard who go to UVU. 01:02:16
One is who the people? 01:02:23
I forget if it was there somewhere else. Somebody brought up a concern. They live on Mill Rd. in an apartment along there. And 01:02:27
they're like, yeah, I used to lock up my bike outside my apartment just like kind of under the stairs there. I guess the apartment 01:02:33
building banned that. They're wondering if the city can do. 01:02:39
Anything or has any advice of like where to park your bike if you live on Mill Rd. 01:02:46
Those apartment buildings really don't have great bike parking at all that honestly, none of those apartment buildings have any 01:02:52
bike parking. So unless you're bringing it into your apartment, yeah. Yeah. So he parks us in his living room. 01:02:58
I've I've seen a few people just like leave them out on the balcony or whatever. 01:03:06
I don't know how to fix that or what to do about that but. 01:03:11
There's something also talked to the Orem police at the UVA event. They were registering bikes there. 01:03:14
They said that the county has a unified way of doing that, so I'm going to follow up with our. 01:03:23
Police force here. 01:03:31
To get incorporated with that, with the hope that we could. 01:03:32
Get some stickers or whatever, just get added to their database and then maybe participate in like the next. I think the next big 01:03:39
city thing is the Halloween trick or treat event. If you had like a a booth to the side there of just registering your bike and. 01:03:47
Putting a sticker on it would be something new. 01:03:55
And then? 01:03:59
The other thought as far as events goes, so we have. 01:04:01
A calendar of events for the May bike month set up now that I can. 01:04:07
I don't know if you were included in that e-mail. Yeah, I don't know if I saw the final one, but yeah, Anna had all those mapped 01:04:13
out, right? Yeah. So kind of the kind of the key strategies there is that we're going to try to coordinate at least with Orem to 01:04:19
do our Bike to Work day on the same day that they're doing theirs. Potentially have like a snack station at the front runner 01:04:24
station just for whoever. 01:04:30
And then? 01:04:37
Also kind of revamped the bike rodeo a little bit. 01:04:40
To be maybe not just a kids safety event but like a more generic like bike skills event. If you're an adult and want to learn how 01:04:44
to ride a bike then that might be a good Ave. for that. Also I. 01:04:53
Maybe some tuning lessons or something. Yeah, yeah, like a bike maintenance type of thing. So. 01:05:03
Yeah, that's kind of a. 01:05:10
Kind of the bigger change for this year's, trying to incorporate some different ideas into that event. 01:05:14
And then? 01:05:20
Try to also continue to expand our events during the year a little bit. So I think the next thing that we should try to do is like 01:05:22
a winter bike to school day, maybe sometime early January when a lot of kids aren't riding their bike to school because it's cold. 01:05:29
Which is fair, but I think we can still do that. 01:05:38
When the leaves start changing, like there was a couple people that wanted to do a little thing, but yeah, like a little fall 01:05:41
ride. Yeah, that'd be fun. It's really fun. Pretty cool. 01:05:47
Um, I think. 01:05:54
Everything that I have. 01:05:58
Nice, Martina. 01:06:00
Anything from you? 01:06:02
I missed the last meeting, but did we talk about the city tour like the bike tour at all? 01:06:07
Yeah. Did you have anything you wanted to add about that? Just like if we could have a mic or whoever. OK, So if there is an 01:06:44
educational aspect, make sure everyone can hear. But it was really cool. There's so many people that came and I just thought like, 01:06:52
man, this is what community looks like, you know, like everybody coming together and just getting excited about what's going on. 01:07:00
Or at least informed. Yeah, yeah, yes. Informed, yes. 01:07:08
Oh yeah, here we go. Here's some pictures that anything's got up there. 01:07:12
But yes, it was a success. It was good. 01:07:16
All right, well, if that's it from the Commission, we'll go to staff real quick. Anthony Museum, Holden, anything from you? 01:07:20
That's active transportation related. 01:07:28
Yes. 01:07:31
I have a few things for the Commission. 01:07:31
All right, so. 01:07:34
The first one would be the Connected Community Summit, which is happening tomorrow, and that's the 18th and 19th. 01:07:36
This is happening at the Utah Valley Convention Center, so if any of you is interested in being part of this, please let me know 01:07:45
and we'll get you tickets for that. So. 01:07:51
It's on the House. 01:07:58
But like, let him know now because so yeah, it's tomorrow. So if you're interested, you just let me know now. 01:08:01
Yeah. 01:08:07
So that's that's the main thing that's urgent right now. But the next thing is going to be an update on the tag grant. We're 01:08:08
fortunate to have Anthony join us in the consultant selection meeting. We have selected a consultant. 01:08:17
It's Ave. consultants with other consultants. They came together, but it's been led by Ave. and today we sent out a draft contract 01:08:27
that is being reviewed. 01:08:34
So we're probably going to be on the contract with the selected consultant. 01:08:42
In the next week or two. 01:08:48
The plan is once they get in the contract and they start working, there's going to be a date that we put together for. 01:08:50
Town hall where the, you know, the whole project is pretty much opened to the entire community to come, you know, ask questions 01:09:00
and just get to know about it. But the BAC will be heavily involved in a lot of the meetings that go on with that project, so. 01:09:09
Were just a few weeks away from being busy. We might organize some special sessions. 01:09:19
I don't know till we have really a contract in place and we have a game plan with the consultant. 01:09:26
So that's a quick update that I wanted to give. Other than that, I think we're doing great. 01:09:32
Thank you. 01:09:39
Did you have anything? 01:09:42
If you get all the way up here and say no, I'm going to be frustrated. 01:09:49
Seeing the door by the worst director, I say engineer. 01:10:02
I have something. 01:10:06
So we've recently been working with Frontrunner in regards to the front runner, what they call the Front Runner Point Improvement 01:10:09
project in regards to. 01:10:14
Doing more increase the frequency for front runner throughout Utah County, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County and so and such. One 01:10:20
of the items that's been we've been having some discussions with is and we've been working with the city forum and are continuing 01:10:26
to work with city forum in regards to continuing the trail. 01:10:32
Along down South of Vineyard Rd. I believe that's what it's called down here, but it's a road that takes you from right by. 01:10:39
Center St. down to kind of where they're building the new townhouses, as well as in the coming looping down to Lakeside Park. 01:10:50
Yeah, there we go, Lakeside Park. 01:10:55
As well, But we're also talking about some doing some realignment realignments of the road, but also too and in terms of kind of 01:11:02
what that kind of spurred the trail discussions to and to provide the connectivity from Viner down to the sports park and also. 01:11:11
To help, taught us some discussions about addressing the parking. 01:11:21
I'm on there because right now a lot of people are parking on the streets and there's an overflow flow in the park on the streets, 01:11:26
which provides. 01:11:29
Now they, you know, hazards for cars, but hazards for everyone else who are trying to get in and out. And obviously we understand, 01:11:33
we know that the recent history of the pedestrian safety in that area, but also part of our discussions have been working with 01:11:39
with Orem City about connecting on the east side of the railroad tracks there. We go east side of the railroad tracks where the 01:11:45
Vine Apartments are, where the trail terminates. 01:11:51
To where the bridge have missing piece like a year ago. 01:11:58
Yeah. So having some discussions with connect all the way through to, we're having some discussions with ARM, but more importantly 01:12:03
with ETA in regards to utilizing some right away space property that DTA has reserved and will want to keep reserving, but would 01:12:11
be open to the city building a trail there on the basis that if they ever needed the trail goes away. 01:12:19
But you know that is maybe in a 50 years or 100 years from now. 01:12:29
Or it might be tomorrow. It's one of those things. 01:12:34
But I mean, they're very open to that. And Orem City, we had discussions with Orem Cities city engineer, engineering staff as well 01:12:36
as their plan, their planner, planning department in regards to that. So hopefully we see some good movement along there. I know 01:12:42
that's been a topic discussion like a year and a half ago. 01:12:48
And for other reasons, I'm sure, let's just put on pause. So we want to move forward with that because that not only provides the 01:12:55
connectivity for recreational use, but also it provides another route for the people that live in the apartments to get to 01:13:02
Vineyard Elementary without having to go a mile and a half out of their way. 01:13:09
On that one so I just wanted to give you updates on that. And then of course we received the especially thanks to MAG and from the 01:13:17
former people of MAG that we received the federal we're we're moving forward receiving federal funding to do some drug enhancement 01:13:23
projects. One of them is over at Center Street by. 01:13:29
Franklin Elementary, Franklin Elementary and Gammon Park, we did the city when there's some plumber improvements there now as well 01:13:36
as the work over by Vineyard Elementary and Lakeside Park as well with some for some improvements there. Both the areas of city 01:13:43
this improvements is to get something into the ground, but the funding that we'll be receiving will actually be for some good long 01:13:50
term sustainable improvements 1. 01:13:57
Notably, is to help with the. 01:14:05
Driveway improvement. 01:14:08
Realignment for the Lakeside Park. 01:14:09
To ensure that you know. 01:14:12
Regular intersection. So it's a classic four way versus an offset four way. I'm, you know. 01:14:14
Funny enough, when I when we talked to or city of warm about that for before your answer was their park was there first, Vineyard 01:14:20
came second, so. 01:14:24
Well, we're, but we're still interested in the lead to make make that correction. 01:14:28
So those are, yeah, those are the big things on there. 01:14:33
And hopefully again, hopefully. 01:14:42
Connection underneath 800 N into the to the front runner station in the new trail system. Yeah, connection there. I mean, we're 01:14:44
yeah. And we're working forward without making this like all the other construction that might happen. There is solely nothing to 01:14:50
do with the trail. It's just kind of more landscaping improvements as well as infrastructure improvements. Residents that live 01:14:55
over in those townhomes and they've really. 01:15:00
It's a big upgrade, yeah. And we're playing out, yeah, we're playing out planting trees along there just to provide some good, 01:15:05
like a good distinguishing on the, you know, privacy slash, aesthetics slash, you know, everything else. 01:15:11
That's good. Thanks for seeing. 01:15:19
All right, one last update. 01:15:21
So in my communication with the League of American Bicyclists, they did say that they have training. 01:15:24
Opportunities for cities to like just have staff and buy commissions just come together and receive trainings to guide us through 01:15:32
a. 01:15:38
Get into a much higher status from bronze to maybe, you know, silver or gold. So that is something that I'm waiting on an e-mail 01:15:45
with details on how to get signed up for such trainings. But it comes at a cost that the city has to pay. 01:15:54
And it's, you know, they described it as. 01:16:04
Just transportation and time for them here. 01:16:07
So that's one they come in to do the training. It's a 2 day training. 01:16:11
So something they offer to cities? 01:16:16
Another thing, also from the League of American Bicyclists, is they could. 01:16:19
Have a virtual call with us. 01:16:25
Which we could probably have on our next meeting. 01:16:28
Just have them go through our scores and the reason why we're still bronze with us, that will be free, but they can't be here in 01:16:32
person. So I noticed too that like. 01:16:38
Our PDF scorecard didn't seem to be updated for this last go around. I don't know if it's because of the the IT was still bronze 01:16:46
so they just kept the other one up. But I can follow up on that as well. Yeah, but I think that be a good agenda item. Just let us 01:16:51
know if it is and we can plan for you. I will update the team though on probably the cost involved in having the real train. Would 01:16:57
you be interested in having a training? 01:17:03
Maybe next year. Yeah, I'd like to hear more about it and like what we would expect to learn. Two days is a lot. Yes, it is a lot 01:17:10
that anyone that this isn't their full time job to do. I think so, yeah. My only concern, they said the outcome is usually pretty 01:17:17
good because they try to just have all of us in a space where we can interact and just go through stuff. 01:17:24
More than just discussing the scorecard and also they recommend during that time to have a bike ride in the city. 01:17:33
Just to have a good idea of what exists and also have them make recommendations because they don't live here. So they'll really 01:17:41
that's the reason why it's all two days because they spend time right in the city even before the time that you have to meet and 01:17:47
write as a group. 01:17:52
OK, with enough notice, we could probably plan for that. Yeah, sure. Can I, can I ask a couple questions on that? Yeah, sure. 01:18:00
Another they're doing this on they're willing to do this on a city by city basis. 01:18:11
Would they be willing to do it on a regional basis? 01:18:17
In other words, having what if, what if Mag headed this up. 01:18:20
And the cities, when you bring in Orem and you bring in all the cities and those who are actually doing the applications, the 01:18:24
staff, yeah, we're doing those applications can be trained and then. 01:18:31
Each of the cities I think it's just us taking advantage of in this area, but there's also UVU and BYU I think are bike friendly 01:18:38
campuses. And then there's a couple businesses too, so you could just invite them all. That's a good idea. 01:18:45
I'd ask them, but I sounds like a very good idea. Something that would be worth having though. 01:18:53
And then if some of us couldn't make it, there still be like critical mass of people to. 01:19:02
I didn't have someone come out and like, three of us said we'd be there and only one can make it, you know? And it's like, OK, 01:19:07
that's not anyone's time, but if you can get a few other entities involved, that could be good. That would be good. 01:19:13
Thank you. 01:19:19
All right. Next meeting is on December 17th. That's scheduled. But for now meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thanks. 01:19:20
Did you see a Jordan? 01:19:35
Thank you. 01:19:38