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Mayor Fullmer called the meeting to order at13 PM.            SESSION1.   City-wide Parking Discussion
Senior Planner Cache Hancey along with Thomas McMurtry from Avenue Consultants, presented a parking study.
Mayor Fullmer led a discussion regarding parking concerns, specifically addressing parking issues and solutions for the Bridgeport and Lakefront developments, as well as general city planning. In Bridgeport, parking overflow from LeCheminant called for measures such as a parking study, permits, stricter enforcement of parking and occupancy regulations, legislative changes due to UVU's proximity, and collaboration with HOAs on enforcement and education.   Lakefront faced challenges like confusion over parking passes, tandem parking conflicts, trash collection impacts, and residents occupying Homeowners Association (HOA) stalls, leaving no visitor parking. Proposed solutions included digital parking passes, increasing capacity by redesigning streets and reducing greenspace, revising enforcement contracts, and introducing HOA visitor passes.   Broader city-wide recommendations included early investment in parking garages, fast-tracking Utah Transit Authority (UTA) lot development, implementing transit-oriented policies, and enhancing pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure. Additional suggestions explored public funding for parking, metered parking, unbundled parking, and leveraging apps for parking reservations while studying demand and garage utilization.           ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Fullmer adjourned the meeting at32 PM.     MINUTES APPROVED ON:     /11/2024   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:        TONY LARA, DEPUTY Recorder
We are ready, all right. We're going to go ahead and get this meeting started. 00:00:01
See anything except on the agenda except for this? That's right. OK, I wanna tell you a little bit about the format, why we're 00:00:07
sitting down here. We are trying to have a roundtable. You can see it's complex because we have to have microphones cuz it's a 00:00:13
public meeting. And so it's kind of like we just moved on the ground level. But if you want to come up and get closer, that's what 00:00:19
this is really bad. It's about being inviting and letting you know that we really just want to strategize together so I want to 00:00:24
set. 00:00:30
Some expectations for all of us to have a really productive, awesome conversation. I'd say as a growing community that's been 00:00:37
growing as rapidly as we've been growing. There are so many growing things that we're all facing and one community coming in after 00:00:42
another doesn't really slow down and give people time to say how do we fix this community? And one time we solve 1 community and 00:00:48
that topples into another community because we take parking out of the villas and then that parking goes into the Springs and so 00:00:54
on and so forth. 00:01:00
And so the conversation has to keep going. And So what we really want to do tonight is drive the best opportunities to say, what 00:01:06
are you seeing? What can we do? What solutions are you bringing to the table? Now? If we start crossing paths, I'm probably going 00:01:13
to cut you off and say, hey, you, then you, then you. 00:01:19
And then we'll make sure everybody's heard. And I think that's going to be the best way that we can do this. We're going to start 00:01:26
out with Morgan kind of introducing a little bit of the topic of cash, introducing a little bit of the topic, and then we'll just 00:01:31
dive right in. 00:01:36
Yes, and when you want to make a comment. 00:01:42
Yeah, that's a good one. Somebody from the audience wants us to turn down the heat now. It's on the I just propped that door. OK, 00:01:45
We popped the door open. That'll get it a little cooler. It is warm, OK. It's going to get uncomfortable too, because I'm going to 00:01:52
keep telling you to get uncomfortable and come to the microphone. So it's going to feel less inviting and more formal. 00:01:58
To come to this microphone so that we make sure that this is on the public record. That's the ultimate goal is that this 00:02:05
roundtable and this steering committee is public. We want it to be this way. And so don't let it be awkward when I tell you to 00:02:11
come to the microphone and make it uncomfortable. OK Go ahead, Cash. Thank you, mayor and council for the time tonight. We've been 00:02:18
working with as a little background. 00:02:24
The planning department here has been working with Ave. Consultants for just over a year. 00:02:32
Now on this parking study, we've heard a lot of complaints from Vineyard residents about parking. And so we wanted to actually 00:02:37
collect some data to make smart decisions based off of that data. And so the beginning of tonight, we're gonna have our 00:02:44
consultants here. We have Thomas with Ave. who will provide some of that data, just kind of snapshot to show you what we've done. 00:02:51
And after that, we've over on that TV towards Tony if you want to wait. 00:02:58
Great. Sarah, did you want to add anything to this? I know this was a recommendation for me to put together. You've been working 00:03:37
really hard on parking and then maybe we'll have app and you say something and then we'll start. 00:03:42
I just want to thank you, mayor and staff for for doing this. I know this is this is a little different and I didn't expect the 00:03:48
podium. I thought that would. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just wondering, do we have, will you raise your hand if you're from lakefront 00:03:53
community? 00:03:58
We have representation Providence. 00:04:04
Anyone. 00:04:07
What about so Edgewater? Edgewater. Okay, unless Yamina any. 00:04:09
Great. OK. I just want to see that we had some sort of representation from some of the hotspots in the area. But but I really 00:04:17
appreciate the opportunity to do this format. I feel like it's important that you understand that, that we want to. 00:04:24
Be solution oriented and but we have to at least address all of the issues and the correct issues. And I feel like we can do that 00:04:32
tonight altogether. So thank you. I appreciate it. 00:04:37
Awesome. Good evening everyone. My name is Thomas Mortree. I work for Ave. consultants for local transportation consulting firm. 00:04:45
I've had the pleasure of working with Vineyard for the last year on looking at parking issues. I've been doing parking kind of 00:04:50
studies and transportation studies around the state for the last 20 years and and your staff is excellent. They're really kind of 00:04:55
on top of stuff and they really want to make kind of data-driven decisions. And so we collectively have been working on putting 00:05:01
together. 00:05:06
A bunch of data. 00:05:12
Looking at this. 00:06:43
Additionally, the South part of Lesamina is an area that kind of came up. This is kind of rude mats in the area just on the South 00:07:46
and right where it says Center Street, that label, that's an area that came up as well. And we've got some neat kind of data about 00:07:52
that. But we do have data for all of these neighborhoods if you're curious about them. 00:07:58
But I will say when we went back and looked specifically at a bunch of these neighborhoods including like Edgewater and the 00:08:05
Cottonwoods, which has Etus and things to kind of understand the stuff we're seeing, we weren't seeing like. 00:08:10
The issues that we were seeing were not that of like a growing concern that like like a fundamental change had happened, if that 00:08:17
makes sense so I wanna talk about lakefront for a few slides and again I'm gonna try to be brief. This is the same data just 00:08:23
zoomed in the lakefront. One thing of note is that there are only 50 unoccupied assigned stalls within kind of the entire area. So 00:08:28
these are just the on St. assigned. We do have data for driveways. If you're curious, I'll show that to you in a minute but when 00:08:34
we. 00:08:40
Data 300 W was occupied. In fact, on average we were seeing something like 88 cars parked there every single night between, you 00:08:46
know, 300 W and that little piece of in your Loop Rd. where again, parking was restricted so no one was allowed to park and yet 88 00:08:52
cars were every single night. And so this was something that we wanted to talk about. We met with Sarah and Marty and others in 00:08:59
the city to kind of work through what options exist. 00:09:05
Specifically, we were trying to see if there was a way to make that parking available to people who clearly wanted to kind of park 00:09:12
it, but also not necessarily like, you know, try to do it in the fairest, best way we can. We looked at several different options. 00:09:19
Where we landed was on a permit program, which we kind of, we talked about, you know, what we can kind of do. We developed this 00:09:26
plan, joined with the city, and then there's several things kind of within the permit program. But it adds, it allows folks to 00:09:34
purchase a permit to legally park on 300 W and to be there overnight during the restricted hours on a limited basis. So there's 00:09:41
only like 82 permits available for purchase. At the same time, the HOA made the clubhouse available for parking. 00:09:48
It was hard to see in that map, but we we measured every single car that was parked in the clubhouse and. 00:09:56
Overnight parking so we have 87 products. 00:10:31
We've collected a bunch of data to see how it's going. Oh, when it was announced, permits became available in August, Signs went 00:10:34
up almost immediately. There were these signs that were out there at nights. People knew there was a middle sign. You see, there's 00:10:40
about 30 of those located on 300 W that people can see and, and then it's been available. We have data. I'll show it to you here 00:10:46
in a second, but as that has, it was announced in August. 00:10:52
You know, it started in September. It we enforcement didn't begin until October. 00:10:59
But then in October, they have certain enforcement. And so you can see in this photo there's a truck that's been booted for not 00:11:03
having a permit. This is another couple photos of like a permit hanging in the windshield. So that's what looks like you have a 00:11:08
permit. And then if you don't, then you get booted and you can have your boot removed with a. 00:11:13
Oh, that's kind. I was like, I don't know if it'll work on the TV's, but yes, I appreciate it. That's good. So I mean, this is 00:11:22
kind of it's working, it's doing people, the permits are out there and people who have them to park there. So we've collected a 00:11:28
bunch of data on this neighborhood and how the permits are doing and kind of what's going on. I have two different tables maybe to 00:11:34
show you about this. 00:11:39
This table is kind of organized. This is all the lakefront parking and it's organized by the assigned off St. on the top. 00:11:46
The middle is those driveways. We have collect the data on driveways. We didn't do it in last October and and in March, but we did 00:11:51
in August, September and October over multiple nights. We collected all this data and then you can see the parking on 300 W and 00:11:58
ultimately the Vineyard Loop Rd. as well. The thing that I would point out to you is that the assigned off street parking that's 00:12:06
at the very top, you know, last October was at 86% occupied and 14% unoccupied. And now this October, we just posted this. 00:12:13
29th and 30th of October, we waited until late in the month so the enforcement would kind of like work itself out a little bit. 00:12:21
You can see we're at about 92% occupancy, so it's the highest it's ever been. So people are using their assigned stalls. And then 00:12:28
on 300 W where we now have the permit program. So last year, you know, we had 80 plus cars out there on on 300 W and then when it 00:12:36
was announced in August, it was about 5050, you know, about 41 cars. You can see permits in effect. 00:12:43
Had 58 people there but not enforced so in effect but not enforced 71% occupied and then when enforcement began that number 00:12:51
dropped Yep and we're at about 46% occupied and between you'll notice that that was a decrease of 20 stalls and then on Vineyard 00:12:58
loop rotors decrease of 1030 cars that were on 300 W are now off and 35 cars that were somewhere else are now in their assigned 00:13:06
stalls you know in their H280 assigned stalls so we feel like this is really working that the. 00:13:13
Change we wanted to see is happening and that people are taking advantage of the permit program. They parked on the street and be 00:13:21
good and those who don't have permits are then now knowing that they need to park where they're supposed to be. 00:13:26
We also measured a little bit of driveways. We have a bunch of data on the driveways themselves. We also, when we were out there 00:13:33
kind of looking at things, we collected data on how permits have been sold. There have been 77 of the 82 permits sold. You'll 00:13:38
notice when enforcement started in October, you see a spike in those sales people like, Oh my gosh, I don't like a Buddhist. It's 00:13:44
going to go buy a permit. And so like those are are up and there are a few left if people, is that right? Cash, a few left, Yeah, 00:13:50
as of this afternoon, I believe. 00:13:56
Permits available, Yep. And if people kind of want to get those permits, a lot of the things we measure parking at the park, This 00:14:02
is a Sunset park, just S Sunset Beach Park just South of there. People are parking there. They are parking there overnight. There 00:14:09
is a single signs that say no overnight parking, but it's not really enforced. And so that number has gone up. As you know, people 00:14:16
are looking for places to park and we're seeing on average about 26 cars there overnight every night. 00:14:22
In the park there's 62 stalls there so it's not like fully packed. 00:14:30
But there are people there every single night parking where they should be. This is a full data set. If you're curious 00:14:34
specifically about the clubhouse, a year ago there were no, I think it's on there. That second grouping last October, there was 00:14:40
nobody in the clubhouse. And then since we had the permit program, people are taking advantage of the club. So HOA is made 00:14:47
available, people are parking there, and they're parking there overnight. It's not fully occupied, but people are there. 00:14:53
So that's what's going on in Lakefront. If I could just take a few minutes and talk about La Shamana, I'd love to. 00:15:00
So this neighborhood again is one that seems very occupied. This is the occupancy data from last year in late October. 00:15:06
Blue is occupied on street, yellow is there's nobody parking there. The red areas are, there is a car there and there shouldn't 00:15:17
be. So these are people parking in restricted spots or illegally if you will. So we've got several of those that are happening. 00:15:23
Besides that, each of those little blue squares are crashes into parked cars that have been reported by the police and that data 00:15:29
has been like sent up. There are crash reports. 00:15:36
Four people smashing into parked cars. Besides just those crashes, there could be a bunch more that just don't get reported or 00:15:42
whatever, but we are concerned about that and specifically about the areas where there's like cars on both sides and it's kind of 00:15:47
narrow. 00:15:51
Are concerned with the chamber net is largely safety related here's all of the data that we've collected kind of over the last 00:15:56
year at different times. What I would point out is the percent of on street parking has increased not decreased so over the last 00:16:02
year is fuller now than it ever has been so there's more cars parking on the street now than there has been in the past so even 00:16:08
last year when we were looking at this we were like well you know it's not so bad maybe there's opportunities to kind of look at 00:16:13
things it's. It's. 00:16:19
There are more cars on the street now than there was a year ago. 00:16:25
And our concern in Lesamina is safety related. It's specifically people parking right by the stop signs. Here are a couple photos. 00:16:28
You can see you've got cars at night obstructing intersections, obstructing driveways in front of hydrants or in spaces that are 00:16:36
too tight. There's right by blocking the stop signs really in a slight distance, making potential dangerous situations and so. 00:16:44
That's kind of a concern related to these are those same kind of cars and they're occupant and and specifically those those black 00:16:53
cars are kind of shown where they shouldn't be. 00:16:58
Something to do there. The thing that we're thinking of is to look at an opportunity of maybe having on street parking available 00:17:32
to folks at one stall per household. There's about 136 on street spaces available and about 128 units. So there's enough for every 00:17:40
every house to have an on St. space. It might not be in front of your house, but we think that there's there's something to kind 00:17:47
of just continue to look at there to see what we can do to address safety. 00:17:55
That's kind of it. I've got a couple other kind of like. 00:18:03
Didn't we already do red curbing there? 00:18:07
But there are a lot of other areas that have no right curve and probably should. 00:18:40
And so it's those, it's that extension, there's some new stop signs, those intersections really should like have some curve. So 00:18:44
it's safer for people to see especially on those curves. And the two programs that came up in this one was no on street parking 00:18:49
and then a permit. 00:18:55
Pass. No, we never said no. Well, you didn't, but the ones that came and got participated to us. That's right. There have been a 00:19:01
few people that have requested that, but for the most part it is something more along the lines of the the permit program. OK, So 00:19:06
there's some discussion about this one when we looked at it. Is there an opportunity if we want to go through a permit program in 00:19:11
to allow people to have like one on St. space? 00:19:17
Would there be a spillage into Bridgeport? And that was something that we looked at specifically. We're not so concerned about 00:19:23
that. I mean, it might happen, but where we're seeing the parking problems, like even if they spill a little bit further north, it 00:19:30
would likely still kind of stay within. We're not so concerned that it would then be a problem for Bridgeport, if that makes 00:19:36
sense. We are getting petitions from the Bridgeport and the Willows, so. 00:19:43
Both of them are seeing it. So I imagine there would be some kind of spillage that would then make that a harder discussion. Is 00:19:50
there anybody from the Willows of Bridgeport? Bridgeport, OK. 00:19:55
Come to the microphone or go to that table. 00:20:01
State your name Carter Mix from Bridgeport. So everything that was described by the feminine is happening in Bridgeport. I live 00:20:05
right by the entrance of the Bridgeport across the street. There's four single adults living in the top floor, a couple in the 00:20:11
basement. So there's six cars in that house, 4 cars in the house next to it, 10 cars on the street at all times. They're always 00:20:17
parked right by the stop sign. I look out, I can see the entrance and I see probably one year accident every week at least. 00:20:23
Is there anything that you would like to see? I mean, are you thinking just because I want to put it all out there so that we can 00:21:01
study it. There's a parking permit pass that we've discussed that we have available right now in our ordinances that we can 00:21:06
address and that was discussed. And then there's no parking that we've done in the Villas and there's there's a few opportunities. 00:21:12
So from your perspective as a resident in that area, what are you looking at? I mean, my thought is if we could have a sort of and 00:21:18
maybe this. 00:21:24
The ordinances, but where everyone gets one parking spot on the street overnight, something like that where everyone gets a free 00:21:30
parking permit and then additional ones you have to pay for. I think that would take care of the problem. The other problem is the 00:21:34
red curving is not complete. That stop sign that I'm talking about has no red curbing. So there's someone parked there every 00:21:39
single day. But even where there is red curbing, there's a fire hydrant right outside my house and there's someone parked there 00:21:44
probably once a week, so. 00:21:48
Yeah, I mean, I think enforcement even of parking in illegal spaces would be would mean would do a lot. OK, so let's, OK, you've 00:21:54
got that going. Enforcement. I think something that I've heard too is the city just enforcing on over occupancy or those things, 00:22:01
Some things, I think it's a conversation we have to have because according to state law, there's just some things that we can't 00:22:07
do. But having this discussion here I think is important. 00:22:14
Saying stating the law, so maybe. 00:22:21
We could talk about occupancy as part of what we come back with to report to the residents, so we can kind of address what our 00:22:24
limitations are, what the state law says, what we're, what we're allowed to do and how we solve the problems that we see in 00:22:30
occupancy. So what one thing I can add to that discussion about occupancy, one thing that that we've been doing in the planning 00:22:36
department is examining what other cities do with issues of occupancy. 00:22:43
And a high rental neighborhoods and so most cities, especially those around college towns. 00:22:49
Do have some sort of landlord program where they do require landlords or property owners who rent out their houses to get a 00:22:55
license through the city and part of that they do have to. 00:23:00
Let the city know that they're gonna follow our occupancy limit of 400 individuals. We could have them include some sort of site 00:23:07
plan that shows that they have adequate off street parking and it would also give us contact. A lot of issues that we have with 00:23:13
occupancies. We don't have contact for the owner, only the people who actually live there. 00:23:19
And so this license would require them to provide us contact information for the owner so we can directly go to the owner and let 00:23:26
them know their concerns and hopefully get it fixed a lot faster. So as far as city ordinance, what like legally clearly they're 00:23:32
over occupied. So what is our ordinance for occupancy? 00:23:38
The basic rule is single family homes, you can have no more than 4 unrelated individuals. That's not something the city's in a 00:23:45
position to change. It stems from a string of Supreme Court cases that then have kind of filtered throughout the country. And 00:23:52
that's the standard that you can support without inviting litigation. The problem with enforcement if you don't have a business 00:24:00
license requirement is that. 00:24:07
You rely on almost Gestapo like complaints from neighbors and others about what's happening in a location and it's just not it 00:24:15
doesn't make for good neighbors right to be. 00:24:21
Telling on on the home that has too many people and then the other issue is it's often not the renter, the renters are just 00:24:29
looking for a place to live. The problem really is with the landlords that are renting to more people than what they should. When 00:24:36
you have a business license requirement, you can have inspections related to that business license and I'll say there are 00:24:42
legitimate safety reasons for those inspections because. 00:24:48
In my experience with cities that have that requirement, go in and do the inspections. You would be surprised how many phone calls 00:24:55
I get about. 00:24:59
Six beds in a 10 by 10 room or beds in a closet where there's not proper ventilation or exits in case of a fire. And so having 00:25:04
that in place does make the enforcement a lot simpler on the city's part. It also allows us if we have bad actor landlords. 00:25:14
To prevent them from getting future business licenses. So I do like, I favor some form of that and I I've litigated one of the few 00:25:24
cases in the state, the first case in the state that deals with. 00:25:31
Airbnb type rentals, I know yours is a little different because it's mostly college age and young professional age rentals, but 00:25:38
there is that. And then there's one other portion in state law that is a little bit limiting on cities that are not located in a a 00:25:45
town with a college. And that may be something that the city wants to push for a legislative change because we're not we're not in 00:25:53
Orem where the main UVU. 00:26:00
Is located so that statute doesn't recognize the city in the same way it does warm in Provo for some of those enforcement's. But I 00:26:08
think we have a lot of the UVU students that live here because of our proximity to the campus. And then clearly as the university 00:26:14
expands into Vineyard and begins building facilities that will change a little bit and that kind of law might help us get ahead of 00:26:21
that a little bit. And then the final other thing I would just know is that. 00:26:28
Some of the enforcement can be done by the Hoas in a much more active and. 00:26:35
A better way than what the cities can do because most of the HOA's in the city do have in their CCN, Rs and occupancy cap. 00:26:40
And a cap on the number of units that can be rental units. And they can enforce those with a broader set of tools than what the 00:26:50
city does because they can impose fines, they can force evictions, they can do things like that that aren't available to the city. 00:26:56
And if I may add something as well, and we've seen this in researching what other cities have done in regards to occupancy. It's a 00:27:02
very difficult thing to to to enforce. 00:27:08
But what other cities then we've seen this as well is once you address parking and you address some of those externalities that 00:27:15
may be an over occupied unit would have. 00:27:19
Then that tends to drop the occupancy down as well. So it might not be just, you know, trying to directly hit the occupancy, but 00:27:24
when you start to enforce the parking, the occupancy starts starts to drop down because people break their leases eventually and 00:27:30
the number of students or renters will drop. 00:27:35
OK. So maybe on the last one, we I've not just tools, maybe we say CCNR's as well as CCNR tools and CCN Rs and then we put 00:27:42
increased focus on occupancy, but let's additionally add education on legislation surrounding occupancy and parking. I think it 00:27:50
would be good for us to have that as one of our items. 00:27:58
Because the new legislation that came out that removed our ability to add additional parking and some requirements for things like 00:28:08
Adus. 00:28:12
Sounds like you have a home that has two different living units, yes? 00:28:47
And so you would have no more than 4 unrelated individuals in each one. When you, when you do dig into the HOA rules for most of 00:28:50
the HOA's in the city, because they all were based on the same template. You have the same developer that did a lot of the 00:28:57
communities. They have a restriction that you cannot have bedroom by bedroom rentals unless the owner of the unit lives in the 00:29:04
unit. And so there are places in the city where we see. 00:29:11
That if the owner lives there, you can legally have. 00:29:18
More people occupying the unit where if the owner doesn't live there then you're limited and you can't have bedroom by bedroom 00:29:23
rentals. 00:29:27
Thank you. 00:29:32
So just like Morgan's benefit, so as part of the good landlord program in Salt Lake City, they have like the highest visa state at 00:29:38
$350.00 to kind of to be registered and they waived 90% of it. It will drop down to $35. If as a landlord you go through like a 2 00:29:45
hour training session where they talk about all the the education you want and they talk about the enforcement that could come. 00:29:52
And that like almost everybody does that because it's a huge discount and that way they get educated. It's a good idea. 00:29:59
Yeah, we've thrown that into our research for the landlord program. 00:30:06
Come up to the microphone and just start stating ideas and solutions and what you want to see. 00:30:11
As so many of these we know, but it's great to have it here in this discussion so we can say where we are or add it to our list. 00:30:17
I'm in lakefront. 00:30:25
And I'm sorry, Kimberly Olsen from Lakefront and and. 00:30:28
As a person who. 00:30:34
Doesn't have more cars that are allotted to me. 00:30:37
Umm, what's happening is the over occupancy is like I can't have visitors like I, I bought my home. I have my so I have, you know, 00:30:40
I can have two people and they park in my driveway, but there's no visitor parking anymore because. 00:30:47
All of these enforcements and enactments and so. 00:30:54
Kind of like, well crap, I purchased and now I can't even have people come to my house because there's no Rd. parking. Well then 00:30:58
there's a couple issues that were attempted to be remedied and. 00:31:04
OK, I am telling you what I've been told. So if it's a misstatement that I was told that, I apologize. So go ahead and correct me. 00:31:12
There were some extra spots painted like on the roads and we have super, super, super thin roads, right? 00:31:20
And So what happened is week one of those spots being painted, my garbage wasn't picked up because we I'm not on a through street. 00:31:28
So we have to put garbage can on one side and we have to put recycling on the other side. So I didn't get garbage pickup. Now 00:31:35
bless Fred. He literally came and manually emptied the garbage can and then they went and they painted over it. And so there were 00:31:42
some spots that they tried to make available, but because of the design of the neighborhood itself. 00:31:48
We were able to do that because of garbage pickup, so then that limited spot. 00:31:56
So it's not like a we don't want to do it. It's a we can't and get garbage pickup, right and then. 00:32:01
The other thing that kept happening was that technicality, the owner lives there and I have two neighbors that the owner lives 00:32:09
there and then they have 4 bedrooms and then they finish their basement and. 00:32:16
So there's five people in the house, but they're counting our townhomes as having four spots, which is 2 in the garage and then 00:32:24
two in the driveway, right? 00:32:30
Hey roommate, can you move your car 'cause I got to leave before you? What am I supposed to do? You know, I don't know what to 00:33:06
tell him so. 00:33:09
I did hear in a previous meeting that. 00:33:13
I believe it was Christy Wells who said this because it was last year. She had noted that the that part of the problem in 00:33:16
Lakefront was that they were counting spots that blocked other spots of parking and as a result of that and the problem that 00:33:23
caused, they were not allowing that in the Forge and Utah City. Is that correct? Morgan and Cassidy did change that, didn't we? 00:33:29
We have to read the research that. 00:33:41
Yeah. So we've talked about it. I don't remember specifically if it was put forward, but we've discussed that as something in the 00:33:45
future we don't want to approve. Go ahead and put it on our list and we can research it additionally. 00:33:53
Allowed tenant to tenant and owner donor so that I know that that that was put in the code. 00:34:02
But as far as the forge in the Utah City code, we can pull that up. Have we have we reduced green space for them, those limits for 00:34:09
like? 00:34:14
What is it called? The medians between sidewalks and parking lots? 00:34:21
Park sets. 00:34:27
Let's go ahead and put that in there too. We've done it for other Hoas, so let's talk about green space reductions for grass 00:34:29
that's wasted. 00:34:34
That's actually if there was a redesign thread or was that that's where you would make up some of the space if you add in more 00:34:40
parking would be park stripes. OK, let's add that on the list. 00:34:45
OK, thank you. I just wanted to make sure that that was still a thing that's not going to happen because for us directly it will 00:34:51
compound our issue if Utah City then can we'll be purchasing some of our passes that we clearly what we assigned. And then the 00:34:57
other thing I came in and I brought up when this thing was passed was. 00:35:04
And I don't, I'm not assuming that that was the intention, but I, I feel like, and Jacob can correct me, I feel like what's 00:35:12
happening is it's not people being belligerent. They're making mistakes on which path works where, particularly at midnight and. 00:35:19
In in Lakefront and maybe this is something that the HOA can look into is it's not quite as labeled. 00:35:29
And so people are getting booted. 00:35:37
And it's just a mistake. They're trying, they're doing their best. And so I know we had talked about entering in and I know this 00:35:40
is a bad word. The private part and private public partnership to have in that area of the 300 W within lakefront be one that we 00:35:48
could work with the city to make one so that we're not booting people based on accidents, right. They called it up that for just a 00:35:55
second. I want to capture what you're saying. Yeah, sorry, we don't enforce. 00:36:03
You guys, we enforce now through the towing, through the permit process. So we can't actually do a public private partnership on a 00:36:10
public road, right, Jamie? But we could maybe look at our contract for the people that are doing enforcement. Yeah, I think the 00:36:17
only thing we're limited in is having. 00:36:23
It's a it's a bad idea for a number of reasons to have the HOA's enforced on public roads. I think it needs to be the city that 00:36:31
contracts for that enforcement, manages that enforcement. It doesn't mean you can't enforce on public roads. It just means we have 00:36:37
to, we have to be the ones to do the enforcing. 00:36:43
Anyone in the city who buys the permit. So because we're not, we made no negotiate, we allowed the entire area with the problem to 00:36:50
use the passes. So it would only make sense for us to continue to serve the public that way. 00:36:57
And I do want to know on that real quick. We've only had three people outside of lakefront purchaser pass, OK? So I think 74 00:37:05
passes were bought by lakefront residents. That's great. And it's serving the area. So what we wanna do adds the list then is see 00:37:11
if we can do something with our contract where we're talking about booting and how that is going. It's really our option. I mean, 00:37:18
could we work with the HOA and the city work together to like? 00:37:25
To have. 00:37:33
Vendor providing the services that could be the same vendor or like I believe we have the same vendor. Do we have the same vendor? 00:37:35
OK, yeah, I believe we have the same vendor and I think you follow the same rules. We could do something with education. I think I 00:37:42
already put education up there for it, but we could do education where we go back and forth it might be better and if we talk 00:37:50
about the contract with our same provider so I put that up because I think that might have the bigger foot well and and. 00:37:57
Now it's such a big issue and it's this big thing, but lakefront is so mobile. It is so mobile. People are moving in and out, 00:38:05
particularly the students. And so you take my my situation and double that in the condos, you know what I mean? And so and so when 00:38:11
we talk about available parking. 00:38:17
I don't know if we could have the allotment of driveways to account for. It's just hard. It's it's really, really hard. And and I, 00:38:25
I mean, I expected when I bought my home to be able to have visitors and I thought that was a reasonable expectation. But but then 00:38:33
to go back to what you guys are saying about the occupancy for this the for the city. 00:38:41
We have. We have spoken with our our company. So we're blue in the face and they're telling us that. 00:38:51
Even though our CCNR's say are more rigid than the state that there's nothing that they can do to enforce them and they can't go 00:38:57
knock on people's doors and be like how many people are living here, which I don't, I don't want them to. That's really intrusive. 00:39:04
But so we have this, this talk about over occupancy, but but the reality of it is, is that. 00:39:10
Nobody is living on top of each other because it's fun. It's because it's expensive. And every time we turn around, I don't know 00:39:18
about anybody here, but I it makes me want to cry. It makes me emotional because I got my tax increase, my health insurance went 00:39:24
down the toilet. My bills are compounding. 00:39:30
And I think I have to write down my home to pay my bills, but I don't want to be one of the landlords causing the problems, sorry. 00:39:39
So we talk about over occupancy like. 00:39:48
Like they're the bad guys, but the reality of it is, is that nobody's living on top of each other because it's fun. And so we're 00:39:51
just asking you to come and figure out a better solution for us. 00:39:58
Because. 00:40:07
Everybody's just doing their best and it's so freaky expensive to live. I know. I just looked it up in the condo. They're like 00:40:10
little 3 bedrooms You guys are renting for $2000 a month. 00:40:16
That's not even my mortgage. I couldn't I personally if I wouldn't purchase a condo in lakefront, which is. 00:40:23
Basically one of the smallest units you can get. I could not afford my mortgage right now and I I'm ACPA like I'm not. I make 00:40:32
pretty good money and I could not afford to live in a condo. I am so blessed that I bought my home and I have equity and I have 00:40:39
all of that. But my daughter, she didn't have that. And so they do things. I know plenty of couples in the townhomes. 00:40:46
That one couple lives upstairs and one couple lives downstairs. So you've got four cars there. If there's a family member too, 00:40:54
they're just trying to get by. So I know, and then we go back to the discussion about money. We don't want to raise taxes. And I 00:41:02
know the cost would. Correct me if I'm wrong, Eric, it was like 700,000 to repaint and fix Lakefront to add more spots. 00:41:10
That's that's sort of a ballpark and that would include traffic calming measures out in the streets with some pull bouts and 00:41:20
things like that. But yeah, OK. So, so I feel bad as lakefront being like, hey, we're doing our best and we've got Utah City 00:41:26
looming across the street, which is going to be more high density and. 00:41:32
What do we do? Because I can't, I can't go to our senior citizens and be like, hey guys, sorry, I'm gonna push for $700,000 'cause 00:41:39
we have a parking problem. I can't do that. So well, let's add a couple of things before we forget them. Let's add the education 00:41:47
of the current assessment that we have in the downtown that limits occupancy and build out unless we do a parking study to 00:41:54
accommodate it. We need to talk about this and this because I think that will alleviate. 00:42:02
Concerns of the onslaught of additional things that don't have their own parking. I think we're facing it together, so let's put 00:42:09
that on there. 00:42:13
Hold on. Secondly, let's put on the painting and restriping for the 607 hundred, whatever the estimate is for that cost. And then 00:42:18
thirdly, I would say, I think everything that you're saying, we hear you and we echo what you're saying. And I think that's why 00:42:26
there's so many tools between each of us, our HO as in the city that we can come together on and we can work on because. 00:42:34
We recognize the state issue of affordable housing and we recognize that we're a growing community. 00:42:42
We recognize we have contracts that we have to fulfill, but we understand the issue that you're in and what you're facing. And so 00:42:48
many Hoas have had to go through it, right. And, and sometimes that is an adjustment of things like. 00:42:54
Your CCNRS and sometimes that's restriping and I think that's why we're putting it up here, Jake. 00:43:01
Everyone of these developments that we're talking about submitted a parking study and said that it would be ample before building 00:43:11
it. Am I right? 00:43:16
And everyone of those parking studies said, and right, and I just want to give people history on that, right? So like when the 00:43:22
mayor says, hey, Utah City, we're going to we're going to require another parking study, You can come back and allow them to say 00:43:26
anything. 00:43:30
Humans live differently. They will change overtime. They'll live intergenerationally and they'll have students. And as 00:43:36
governments, if we look at a home when we build it and we say this is the only type of person we're going to allow to live here, 00:43:43
we don't know if UV will grow and expand and we'll get more students or shrink. And like, it's hard to do that #2. Jamie and I and 00:43:51
I wanted to make sure it was clear there is no state law from us doing a private, private partnership. You, I. 00:43:58
You say you don't like it or it's not the best scenario. What I would suggest, though, is we're looking at kind of epic failure on 00:44:05
the parking. And I understand that it might not be the best case scenario, but I mean, I was in Atlanta, GA, and I thought I was 00:44:13
from Vineyard, UT, and they said parking Armageddon, never going back. And I was like, yeah, you know, I think everyone knows that 00:44:20
like people move out of our city like. 00:44:28
Hundreds of them, you know, and so like we can allow for one parking permit legally allowed. The city can go into a private 00:44:35
partnership and allow the HOA's. 00:44:42
And permit to be used on city roads and I know that's not in the perfect planned out world for liability, but there's nothing in 00:44:49
state law that. 00:44:54
The second thing though, that I would say, can I clarify on that? Yeah, I think they were two different questions that were asked. 00:45:01
One was can the HOA's enforce on public roads? The answer, the answer to that is definitively no. The next question you asked is a 00:45:10
little bit different, which is could the city choose to recognize an HOA parking pass as some kind of official parking pass? Sure. 00:45:18
We could work out a way that that would function. There's details you'd need them to negotiate about how they're issued, how 00:45:27
they're maintained, all of those things. But that part of it you could do. And let me ask you, I just want to raise the hands, how 00:45:33
many people would like their HOA to be in charge or be making the decision on this, on their specific HOA and saying for parking 00:45:38
by raise of hands? 00:45:44
How many would not? How many would like a generalized citywide policy? 00:45:52
Well, just just a different well, I, I think and, and, and to be fair is what's happening is like one neighborhood spills into 00:45:57
another, spills into another. Hold on one second. I just gonna apply the room. I'm gonna let, I'm gonna let you finish. Then I'm 00:46:03
gonna let you finish. Plus she's responding to you. And then I'm gonna let you finish responding to her. And then if somebody else 00:46:09
in the audience had something. 00:46:15
OK. The second thing though that I think is really important. 00:46:23
Is that how many developers are here right now? 00:46:27
OK. I wanted to point that out because. 00:46:31
Every single time for the past 25 years, a developer comes in and says this is going to be ample parking and then they leave and 00:46:36
the problem is left to us. 00:46:40
And then the developer says, Hey, this is a parking study. I promise it'll be good. And then they're gone. And we haven't learned 00:46:45
those lessons over many decades. And so The thing is, is like, I believe that the citizens that live closest to that parking spot, 00:46:53
if they, if I love all of these ideas, but I, I generally believe that if, if they could meet as HOAS and I know there's going to 00:47:00
be cross HOAS, like, hey, if they have this policy, it's going to impact them. But if it does impact them. 00:47:08
HOA doesn't counter, hey, we're gonna adjust this. HOAS can self regulate a little bit better. Like we want more parking or we 00:47:15
want a mean tow truck driver. We want an easier tech driver. We wanna have this culture. We wanna have that culture. We're talking 00:47:21
about really different communities from like the higher density stuff to custom homes like the villas where they're like, you 00:47:27
know, they'll have a different approach where they're gonna want, hey, this is what we've agreed and where we live in our space. 00:47:33
And I think that individuality and. 00:47:39
From the HOA leadership, you know I would love to hear from them of let us you know let us kind of suggest and listen to our 00:47:45
people about what we need. Well and I agree with that too and so I agree with the HOA's. What do you do to do the CC dollars but 00:47:51
but. 00:47:58
I think the city has recognized enough that tandem parking is an issue so that you're addressing it in future. So I guess what I'm 00:48:05
asking is could, could you help us out a little bit more because it wasn't addressed when, when Lakefront was built like I was, we 00:48:11
were going over a couple of us still there that actually built our own. I built mine. So I got a piece of ground and and I built 00:48:17
it and what was sent to me as the plans. 00:48:24
Is not true. So it says on my plans that you could park all both sides of 300 W. You cannot. It also says that there will be two 00:48:31
parking spots right next to my home which impacted my lot purchase. And because the road was not approved to be wide enough for 00:48:39
emergency and delivery vehicles to go through my Rd. those got painted red within a week of me moving in. 00:48:47
So I went and I watched my house rebuilt and I did all of that and I was so thrilled because I was the second person to move it on 00:48:56
my Rd. 00:49:00
And then I watched them paint it red and I was like, what are you doing? These are two parking spots and they're like, no, your 00:49:04
Rd. isn't wide enough for emergency vehicles and delivery vehicles. It's like, are you freaking kidding me? So I get a lot of 00:49:09
mistakes were made and we're now built so. 00:49:14
Given that, given that the city has recognized that it's an issue. 00:49:20
If we could help something out with the permit, make it a little bit more. I don't. I mean, Jamie had mentioned that there were 00:49:26
things. Oh, perfect. Yeah, we did add that. And we also added Jake's comments on sharing. So we'll go ahead and review that. And 00:49:32
can I add one extra thing, Sorry, that I'll be done for electric as part of the education part of my confusion as somebody who 00:49:38
lives in. 00:49:44
In Vineyard is, I'm hearing like 3 different stories. And so I hear it's the city's fault and then I hear it's the HOA's fault. 00:49:50
And then, and then Jake had said that they could, you could deed over the, the parking to us with just a three person vote. And 00:49:56
then there was the public private partnership. And I think it's part of the education. What, what, what's real and what's not 00:50:03
because I, I'm spinning. I don't know. 00:50:09
You bring up a really good point. I was trying to think of how we could articulate this because. 00:50:17
You talked about a few people. You talked about the person that sold the lot to you. You talked about your HOA, CC and Rs that you 00:50:23
adhere to, right? You talked about a development agreement that went in with the city. You talked about how they went into an 00:50:29
agreement and then broke the agreement and painted things that they shouldn't have painted, right? Then you're talking about some 00:50:34
new people moving in that maybe don't fit this agreement but need affordable house. There's a, there's a nuanced thing happening 00:50:40
and then you're talking about. 00:50:46
Just even different voices within the city or with a neighbor that you might know that is saying something. 00:50:52
I don't know exactly how to articulate an education. What we did put together was an HOA coalition meeting. And what we do 00:50:57
frequently is try to find the gaps in some of these development agreements and see, okay, what happened after we made the 00:51:04
agreement? How did housing change? Like the affordable housing, who didn't go ahead and enforce their CCN Rs? Who made CCN Rs that 00:51:12
work maybe too intrusive, you know, things like that and we have to go down. 00:51:19
Very long list so that we can enforce our codes. Maybe we try to come up with something that's more robust than just the HOA 00:51:27
coalition meeting where we're driving something I don't know if we want to put. 00:51:33
Steering committee of education, this is complicated. Any HOA person that's sat in here that's had this discussion with all of us 00:51:40
that's had to, I see many of you that have had this discussion have faced the same experience. That's the same thing with somebody 00:51:48
said I'd have a view for five years, you know, right, right, right. And they charged you more for it. It's a complicated 00:51:55
discussion. So we'll figure out how to name that better. But can we all agree that that's what that means right now? 00:52:02
Steering Committee of Education of It's not just a choice, it's all of the. 00:52:10
The president. 00:52:19
Right, because right now the residents are just smack in the middle. It's like the cities like go to the HOA, the HOA is like, go 00:52:21
to the city and they're like for the love. We gotta figure something out. We try to come up with certain things. We've had maps of 00:52:27
HOA versus city. We have frequently asked questions we have, we have random little things. But I think what you're saying is how 00:52:32
do we just consolidate it? It's something we've been trying to figure out, but now we're gonna we're gonna try to make it more 00:52:37
concrete. 00:52:42
No, it's it's that our CCNR say one thing and so the city can't help us because our CC and Rs are more stringent than the city 00:52:49
code, so nobody's helping us. 00:52:53
The within the community it's not super obvious which like permit is where I feel like the city permit is obvious. It's just the 00:53:01
difference between what Rd. you have to use the city and what when you have to use the lakefront. So I thought combining them 00:53:07
would help the issue. 00:53:13
So one suggestion may be related to this is. 00:53:21
Of A1 pager for each community that would identify what the levers are. And because I think what we're really what we've been 00:53:26
talking about at least recently is enforcement and what tools are available for enforcement. And you probably could go community 00:53:34
by community and look at are there commitments in the development agreement? Are there commitments in the zoning code? 00:53:41
Are what are the commitments in the CCN ours that the HOH is responsible to enforce? And then what things are available to the 00:53:50
city? I think you're right that if you're a resident, it's really confusing and and hard to identify kind of which is which. And 00:53:57
some of the rub in the conversation that we're having is the relationship between occupancy, vehicle ownership and and then how 00:54:04
many spaces are available for people to use. 00:54:12
And I think what we've learned in the parking study that's really helpful is to have data on, on all of those things and and at 00:54:20
least better information about occupancy, vehicle ownership and then where the parking issues are. Do you have that cash? 00:54:27
We're going to focus on the commitments of each of the stakeholders. OK, just so I don't lose track of it. Steering might be the 00:54:35
wrong one. And real quick, Kim, just to let you know, this is, you know, goes back to the whole education thing. Part of the 00:54:41
resolution for the parking on 300 W is we did give the HOA 5 visitor passes that they can give out to community members who, you 00:54:47
know, might have a visitor coming for the weekend or whatever that they can park on 300 W overnight. So we, we sent those to the, 00:54:53
the community manager. 00:54:59
To disseminate throughout the community. So it's up to kind of HOA and the board on how they want it to this presence. But there 00:55:06
are some options. We're going to keep going. So don't worry about it. We'll bring it back. One thing that I did wanna say, Marty 00:55:12
did bring up something really important. Let's go ahead and bring forward the transportation plan in this discussion so that we 00:55:19
can understand Rd. dating, all of those things. 00:55:25
Write that down as one of our. 00:55:32
Yeah, you. 00:55:35
While you're doing that, you ask me a question. There is nothing in state law that prohibits the city from. I'm similar to our 00:55:37
landscaping where the lines didn't line up. And the HOA is taking care of some of our property and we're taking care of some of 00:55:44
theirs a couple of months ago. And we're having an agreement to clean up lines and work better be more neighborly, right? 00:55:52
On the landscaping a couple of months ago. 00:56:00
I'm not sure what you're asking. So last a couple of months ago, we were working on some of the properties and easements of the 00:56:03
landscaping and I believe lakefront don't line up. And so we're working with to draw those up so that we're gonna be watering 00:56:09
their lawn or they're gonna be watering our we're kinda cleaning things up, right. But I think that's a little bit different than 00:56:15
the parking issue. But the only reason why, the only reason why I point that out is there's nothing in state code that doesn't 00:56:21
prohibit us from as a city giving. 00:56:27
Meant for parking to allow them to do that or even dating over the property. There's nothing in state code that does. And when we 00:56:33
do have parking Armageddon, we need to look outside of the box on every available parking spot. And since it's legally available 00:56:39
to do so, I mean, maybe we don't want to, but there's a lot of options at the table that the city could do to empower the HOA to 00:56:44
have more. 00:56:49
Say and have their permit recognized to just simplify it. 00:56:56
Get there to have that added to the sheet for you. 00:57:01
Go ahead, darling, if you would. This is I'm Darlene Price. We are thinking laterally, right? Where all the cars parked on the 00:57:03
street. Why don't we think vertically? Why don't you put a leveled parking lot where the train station is? The top three levels 00:57:11
are parking permits for the people that live in those condos. The bottom one, the bottom two or three levels is for people that 00:57:18
ride. 00:57:25
The train and they've got a parking thing. 00:57:33
I think we need when you were talking about outside of the box, I think we need to look it up. OK, so let's add. 00:57:35
The temporary parking lot that the developer donated to UTA and talked to UTA about speeding up their parking structure for that 00:57:43
area and what the city can do. I would guess there's probably a few parts to that. She's talking about a relationship with UTA and 00:57:51
also a commitment of investment and speeding up the parking lot in that phase. 00:57:59
So those are two different things. One is investment, early investment and 1 is a partnership. 00:58:09
How are you cool, Kelly? I work in not work. I live in lakefront. And the question I have for staff, since we have allowed the 00:58:15
city parking pass, have we looked into how many of those spaces are being utilized? 00:58:25
Yeah. So they showed that data. I think the last count there was 35 vehicles. I could be wrong. 00:58:37
On are you talking about parking on 300 W, on 300 W and Vineyard Loop? Yeah, there's, I think the last count was about 35 at 00:58:44
night, 35 out of about 80. 00:58:48
So we do have that data. I'm not leaving between 1:00 and 5:00 in the morning. I do leave at about 7:00 AM for, for work and I'm 00:58:56
and, and, and I'm just, I'm not, they're, they're my, my thing is the spaces are there. Let's use them. 00:59:05
You know and and. 00:59:15
You, you answer, I, Kim did a good job, I think of addressing a few of the things. But the thing that you mentioned is really what 00:59:17
I had, I had is look, I don't think it's a public private partnership that we're asking for. I think it's recognizing our passes, 00:59:24
you know, and, and the lakefront passes. I'll tell my story. 00:59:31
My wife and I went out of town for the weekend. We have a 21 year old. 21 year old invited over some friends. My car had the 00:59:40
lakefront pass in it. They took my car because I had the lakefront pass in it. Moved it over to 300 W ended up with a boot on it, 00:59:49
right? She had some friends over. She's 21 years old. What 21 years ago is going to do when parents are out of town, right? 00:59:57
It's no big deal but but I just. 01:00:08
I just I've beat this horse so many times, I just I can't understand why the lakefront past can't be recognized and I don't see 01:00:10
any reason why, you know, that pass for lakefront because I think that's again, the the the issue is, you know, we we could 01:00:19
continue to beat this thing, but. 01:00:27
Those, those individuals that have that lakefront pass, I think that's the majority of who's getting booted there. 01:00:37
Yeah, I have a question. So theoretically, right. So it's a public road and we all pay our taxes together. I'm just, I know how 01:00:43
you like the Constitution, right? Sure, let's go property ownership. So I pay taxes. I don't live in lakefront, but I so I can't 01:00:51
park on that road. But you guys can. No, that's not what we're saying. If you own a city pass, you can park there, but you're just 01:00:58
Yeah, we're just. I'm just saying like you're recognizing both of those passes if you. 01:01:06
City pass, you can park there, it's recognized. If you have a lakefront pass, it's recognized. And I don't disagree with you. I'm 01:01:13
just what happens if you buy a city pass and then you go to park on the road? You're paying your $5.00 a month. You should have 01:01:21
your spot but then it's filled with HOA passes. But you but you keep trying to create problems that don't exist. Those spaces are 01:01:28
not being used and people have people right now can buy a city pass. 01:01:36
Right. Anybody in this room can buy a city pass right now, is that correct? OK. And yet those spaces are not being utilized. And 01:01:44
so everybody who wants to park in the city of Vineyard, anybody who wants to park on 300 W or Vineyard Loop right now, sorry. 01:01:54
Has has that opportunity. OK. But they're not being used. OK, hold on. One second pause. Yeah. 01:02:07
Pause for a second, then Marty is going to finish and then Sarah will speak next. So I wanted to turn it back to the parking 01:02:15
consultant because we had a presentation of slide showing how much parking was utilized before the past program came in and what 01:02:22
it wasn't what it is now. Will you remind me, Thomas, what before the parking pass came in and people are just parking there 01:02:29
illegally? Were there days where it was 100% full? 01:02:36
You know, likely he's got to go upstairs. 01:02:43
You've got to go. We were like it was probably very, very close, probably in the 90s, but likely not at 100%. It would rarely get 01:02:49
there. But so on any given night, there's probably one or two unoccupied. But we are seeing occupancy rates previously that was. 01:02:57
Very near. 01:03:05
On average, so almost any given night, there's at least seven MP at the contest. And so we never quite hit 100%, but we are seeing 01:03:38
relatively high algorithms. And Cole, before I hand the mic to start, I'm not trying to be argumentative with you. I'm just trying 01:03:44
to, and I don't mind you being a devil's advocate here, that's fine. But let me ask, let me ask you this question then, Marty, do 01:03:51
we want those spaces utilized? 01:03:57
Don't we want 100% of those spaces being used by Vineyard residents that that's why we have? 01:04:05
Well, so here's OK. This is why I actually have to stop you. I must have people Speaking of the microphone. So I have to have you 01:04:11
stop when I direct you to stop. And then I will hand you the microphone and all of us can exercise patience. Thank you. It's you 01:04:17
now, Marty. Then it's Sarah. 01:04:23
I would not want to see 100% utilized because that means if there's, that means we don't have enough if it's 100%, but I would 01:04:31
like to see it being generally utilized. If it's 100% utilized, that means there's probably 20 more cars or five or one more car 01:04:37
that's not getting this stuff. But just just responding now it's Sarah's turn. 01:04:44
So I have a question, so you guys in in lakefront you have how many HOA parkings spots that you will that they can park with a 01:04:52
pass, do you know? 01:04:58
We talked about that with withholding today. How many, how many parking passes or how many parking spots do you have? 01:05:05
300, as you guys find this or maybe you clarified it, I'm going to remind you that what you're talking about and what Cole brought 01:05:15
to the table is actually on the board as a solution we can look through just for frame of reference. And additionally, you'll have 01:05:21
to discuss the costs and how they're paid, where they're paid in the maintenance. That's probably the discussion that's on the 01:05:27
board. 01:05:33
OK. OK. So if you have 367 spot spread, is that correct? 01:05:40
364 How many HOA passes have you given out to your community? 01:05:46
Every unit and how many units do you have? 01:05:52
Over like 600 and 6600, so 600 units each get a parking pass and you have 365 spots, Is that correct? Yes. OK, so you're giving 01:05:54
over 200 spots that you actually have parking spaces for, right? So so in that theory, then if the city offered 125 spots for 87? 01:06:07
Parking stalls. That's kind of like what you guys have done, right? 01:06:20
Do you think they'd be more utilized that the concern that Marty brought up is if you fill everything to 100% and somebody paid 01:06:24
for a parking pass because they want to make sure they had a spot to park if they get home from work at 2:00 AM, right? So, so 01:06:31
that becomes problematic if we oversell to, to make sure that all of those spots are filled, right? Like that makes sense that we 01:06:38
want all the parking utilized. That makes sense. We want it utilized, right. 01:06:45
The problem is if you oversell to the point where. 01:06:52
Somebody who paid for parking doesn't have anywhere to park. Then we have a flurry of frustrated people again, right. Does that 01:06:56
make sense? So there has to be some sort of balance where where we utilize the parking that's there. But people who pay for 01:07:03
parking or or assign parking through the HOA know that they can come home and have a a parking spot right. See and and one one of 01:07:11
the issues that Ken brought up that I think is that is that I think is important is when these. 01:07:18
Were sold to us. 01:07:26
If you look at our maps that were sold to us right on those maps, those parking stalls are highlighted as lakefront parking, OK. 01:07:28
And where and where that break, where that breakdown between the city edge? 01:07:36
The HOAI don't know. 01:07:44
The site plan that was approved doesn't clearly label all 300 W and Vineyard Loop Rd. as public parking. The great news is we have 01:07:48
that one on the board as clarifying commitments so that we can manage that in this discussion. OK. 01:07:56
So we've talked about a digital parking path and we feel like that might. 01:08:06
Be a really good solution to a lot of a lot of the issues that are happening. A it would reduce the price significantly. And 01:08:13
Nicole, the the digital parking pass would allow your daughter to go on the app and and put her car her license plate in so so you 01:08:19
could have the pass, but she could use it. If you're not. We it wouldn't we'd get away from the the hard copy. It really is just a 01:08:26
license plate. 01:08:32
Digital. 01:08:40
Permit, so it ends up being $10 a year for this digital permit you can have multiple cars on there we can do a visitor pass that 01:08:41
they can just they can go on and and have it it lets us have so much flexibility on what we can do and what we can allow my my 01:08:48
thing is I had a. 01:08:55
Sorry. Sorry. Since you're looking at my point, I'll just clarify. We have a permit passed, but it's not on the board that there's 01:09:03
also a digital option. So I just wanted to put that on the board. That's the top line on the board. 01:09:09
Just kidding, I didn't read. Yeah, and we can do a work session on that. I think it'd be really beneficial for you guys to see 01:09:18
what that would do for our city. It might be something rolling out next. 01:09:22
We do need to make that decision before the beginning of the new year where we'd be purchasing new passes to send out. 01:09:27
So that's something we're working on right now. OK, Kind of my feeling is I've gone back and forth and I've listened to the 01:09:33
frustrations of over over renting and shortage of parking. And I had a house in Provo that that we turned into a rental and I had 01:09:41
to sign up for their landlord program. I had to tell them how many people were going to be there, how many cars and and that was 01:09:48
just expected as a business, right? I have a business in Vineyard City. I have to report if cars are going to. 01:09:56
Comment and park in front of my house. If they're right, Marty, you're the same. We have to report to this city what what the 01:10:03
parking expectation is going to be. So part of like edge can build their community. They can give what they think is sufficient 01:10:11
parking. But if you have investor owned investors that come in and buy over 50% of the community and they over rent like like they 01:10:18
said, 88 cars to a four bedroom condo or or a townhome. 01:10:25
That OK, that's not really a fair assumption to say the builders failed, right? It's it, it really is a problem of we need 01:10:33
affordable of what, Right exactly. 01:10:38
Just as a reminder, let's in a policy analysis that we're doing right in what has been done to solve for these problems in the 01:10:46
community already. And then #2 Sarah mentioned investor legislation, I believe that's coming forward this legislative cycle so we 01:10:53
can make sure that we are highly involved, OK. 01:11:00
Go ahead. And then, Jake, you said you had a comment. 01:11:11
My name is Fred Vanderwerff. I live in Lakefront. I as a member of the Master board, I've been involved in these discussions for 01:11:15
the for the past two years. 01:11:19
Two comments #1 the entire context of the request that we made to the city. 01:11:24
Was really confined to simply recognizing the lakefront pass. We never asked for exclusivity. We never asked for access to 300 W 01:11:32
24 hours a day. We simply asked for overnight and please recognize our parking pass. That was really everything we were ever 01:11:40
asking for. And contrary to what Jamie has indicated, we were told that was not an option. 01:11:49
So point #1. 01:11:59
We were lied to. 01:12:01
Point #2 conversation about not wanting 100% parking. I actually disagree with that because the only way we know if there is a 01:12:03
problem is if we actually have 100% parking and we know that there are people who are not able to to park where where where they 01:12:09
would normally be able to park. 01:12:15
That provides a data point as an HOA member, as an HO, as a member of the HOA board that I would want to know. 01:12:23
I would assume the city would want to know about it as well, rather than trying to manage down and restricting parking to to a. 01:12:31
Prohibitive to a prohibitive level. 01:12:41
The last point I'll make about. 01:12:45
About that About. 01:12:48
Um, you, Sir, you brought up, you brought up. You know what happens if if. 01:12:54
We, you, we have, we give everybody in Lakefront. 01:13:00
That they recognize the city recognizes our parking pass and everybody with the lakefront parking passes on 300 W and nobody that 01:13:06
has a city pass can park there. 01:13:11
It is to me that is the same thing about setting expectations that we have adopted in Lakefront, which is everybody who who every 01:13:18
single one of our parking passes are issued with the understanding that they come on a first come, first served basis. 01:13:26
There is no expectation that there is a parking spot guaranteed because as you already observed, we just don't have the space. 01:13:35
It's not realistic. Our own numbers also indicate that there's and I think that the study supports this, that we actually have. 01:13:44
Generally speaking, between cart, between garages, driveways and the overflow that we have plus 300 W, we have pretty close to 01:13:53
sufficient. 01:14:00
Parking We haven't gotten enough data yet to indicate that we need a whole lot more. 01:14:07
So it's really about establishing the correct expectation, not necessarily the parking pass guarantees that you've got a spot, but 01:14:14
if there is one available, your pass is going to be recognized there. That has been the entire context that we've that we have 01:14:21
made our parking pass available on lakefront. I think the city can easily adopt the same. 01:14:28
The same method. 01:14:36
Mayor, I don't want to jump the queue, but after Mr. Holdaway, can I? Yes. Or you can go first. You can go. 01:14:40
OK. 01:14:47
I don't appreciate the finger pointing. 01:14:49
And I and I don't appreciate the accusation of, of dishonesty. I don't think that's accurate at all. 01:14:52
I think you know that. So the when, pardon me, we can agree to disagree. 01:14:59
A few years ago when the conversation began with the HOA's, there were conversations about could their passes be used on city 01:15:06
streets. Never was it said that that was unlawful. The City made a policy decision. 01:15:13
Your parking passes are oversubscribed as you mentioned today and the city had questions about occupancy in your community. I 01:15:21
don't know the gentleman's name in the BYU had in the front row, but he made a very good point a few minutes ago about. 01:15:27
That you know it can be true that when the developer does its parking study, that it's not up to what you would like it to be and 01:15:34
that. 01:15:39
The HOA is not managing occupancy within the units according to the CCNRS. And one of the reasons those two data points are really 01:15:44
important is that when the developer does its study, the studies based on the expected occupancy of the community. And I believe 01:15:50
one of the things that has happened in some of these communities and your HOA may be symptomatic of this. I don't have the 01:15:57
information. I'd love to know the answer to the question. 01:16:03
But if you have a majority. 01:16:11
I don't want to say develop her own, but investor owned units that are then rented at more than what the allowed occupancy is. 01:16:14
When you go to your HOA and say we'd like to enforce occupancy, you have a majority of the HOA owners that say that's not in my 01:16:22
best financial interest. I'm not going to put resources toward enforcement. And I think that question needs to be part of this 01:16:29
discussion because my. 01:16:36
View is that the Hoas don't have the appetite to do some of that enforcement because you are at such a high level investor owned 01:16:44
again, I agree to disagree in in lakefront we have adopted we have adopted a resolution between the condo boards the. 01:16:56
Town home boards and. 01:17:09
Who were primarily. They primarily deal with their own areas. 01:17:12
Each of those boards have adopted resolutions. 01:17:16
Associated with gathering data from investors about. 01:17:20
About their About their their renters. 01:17:25
And they, the condos specifically I know are managing down to the they're they're managing. 01:17:34
Existing sales. 01:17:43
Of candle units until the. 01:17:45
The minimum threshold is reached. 01:17:50
Maximum threshold excuse me, lakefront the the lakefront townhome HOA specifically has no such limitation in it CCNR OK, so I 01:17:53
believe we can add this to the commentary that was made. I tried to add this into recognizing our commitments talking about tools 01:18:01
and CCN Rs that are there and then actually. 01:18:08
Sarah talked about. 01:18:18
Ownership, that's not our level, but the state level. So I think, I think in that we address that. So thank you, Fred for your 01:18:20
comment. 01:18:24
So my comments are for Jamie is I believe we have to be looking at this through the lens not only of history, but of the future, 01:18:30
which is. 01:18:35
Housing prices are going to go up into Kim's point of where my children going to live. Double occupancy is going to be on the 01:18:42
rise. It probably is, right. And so I believe we need to be looking at this through the lens of the RDA. I believe that one of my 01:18:49
frustrations with some of the projects that were approved through the RDA was like that's not a pain point that I'm seeing. We 01:18:57
have millions of dollars that can be put forth through into the RDA property and we have very limited, but we do have. 01:19:04
Adjacent lands like in lakefront on the West side, there's some parcels of the state the city owns up by the Maverick. As you go 01:19:12
to the America First, there's spillage from your community that's over there. And I believe we need to be looking to the future 01:19:19
and saying, hey, look, zoning wise, is there any way we could get those parcels to to prepare for the future because the problem 01:19:25
will be there and then also allocating public dollars for public parking. 01:19:32
That's available to I love the college president. I forget your name. 01:19:40
That came in and said, hey, this is what we do in college towns to to be able to save those properties and some staff could be 01:19:44
looking into those possibilities of how much would it be for us to purchase by what the RDA or even through zoning to look towards 01:19:49
the future. 01:19:55
OK. So I believe we have started working on this. We have the shared parking agreements, We have RDA designations of parking 01:20:01
garages. We have facilitated things such as that. I think that addresses what Jake is saying and then looking at the studies to 01:20:09
see where that's viable and possible with partnerships with universities. But let's add it to the board as part of the discussion. 01:20:18
Does anybody know a higher priority to invest in right now in the city? 01:20:28
Yeah. 01:20:32
There's a desire I don't. 01:20:34
Can I, can I play devil's advocate for a second again, you guys, sorry. I really like debate so. 01:20:39
If. 01:20:46
I I've heard the argument from a resident that approached me and said they actually own a town home in Edgewater and they said, 01:20:49
and for you guys, I'm not like I care and I'm really trying. But this is what I'm hearing from other people too. Like this is a 01:20:56
citywide issue, but they're like RHOA invested in land and built more property. The city didn't come in and buy more land and 01:21:02
invest in parking for. 01:21:09
Our for our private. 01:21:16
And I like, I would like to hear about your experience. So it's Sarah. But so one of their concerns was they said if you go and 01:21:21
buy parking lots that will specifically cater or serve to a certain complex, you're and it's like what Kimberly said, we're using 01:21:28
everyone's tax dollars. So I have no problem in investing in parking, like bring it on, but I would want to make sure that it 01:21:34
works for the public as. 01:21:41
Whole it wouldn't just be catered to one complex and like specifically. 01:21:48
Sarah has a residency and if she didn't have enough parking on her property, the city wouldn't come in and buy a piece of the park 01:21:55
behind her house and make her a parking spot. It's just so it's this balance of we're trying to fix that. We're trying to make it 01:22:01
fair. But Sean, could you please explain what? 01:22:07
So I'll say two things on that just to clarify for the white board that is enforcement of CCNR and internal parking changes, the 01:22:15
tools that's up there. And then additionally it's investment probably geared towards economic development that serves shared 01:22:22
parking. So it folds it back into that one with clarity. 01:22:29
Respond to one sentence to your You have to come to the Microsoft and I have a good loud teacher's voice. People hear me, you know 01:22:39
it's the recording. 01:22:44
Call Kelly Lakefront. Just because you made a mistake in the past doesn't mean we need to keep making that mistake. That that 01:22:52
that's the answer to your question. Just because we didn't do it for this group, well, that may have been the wrong decision. So 01:22:59
we don't have to keep making the mistake. Let's correct the mistake. Hold on. Wait, that's a great point. And I think what we can 01:23:06
address in that one is. 01:23:13
What were the commitments, because there was this nuanced thing, where were the gaps made? And I think we've addressed that in a 01:23:20
white board thing. And what could we do differently is what we're exploring right now. So we're at the right place. 01:23:28
OK so my name is Sean Bailey, I'm from the Edgewater community and about 3 years ago I joined the HOA board and we had a parking 01:23:38
problem. 01:23:44
Here tonight, that is it, Lakeside Lakefront. Lakefront is at the top of the rankings for parking problems. We used to be at the 01:23:51
top of the rankings. We've dropped down in the rankings, thankfully, because we've been able to do a few things. So what we did is 01:23:59
we looked at enforcement. We had CCNRS. Our CCNR said that you can only have two vehicles per residence. 01:24:07
It wasn't happening that way though, and So what was happening is all of our visitor parking was being like you were talking about 01:24:16
before. 01:24:20
Our visitor parking was being taken for residents, so you couldn't have anyone visit. You had all of your visitor parking taken 01:24:23
and people were taking other people's spots. People were parking in the desert. People were walking all the way across Geneva Rd. 01:24:30
We had all kinds of problems, OK. And So what do we what we found is that we were not going to be able to solve this problem with 01:24:36
enforcement alone. 01:24:42
Because we just didn't have enough parking. 01:24:49
And So what we decided to do is we decided to invest our own funds into building more parking. 01:24:53
We went to, I think it was Anderson, Geneva. 01:25:01
What's that? No, Anderson, Geneva was the one that won at first if we talked to them way before even exit home and was involved. 01:25:06
Yeah. And then they, Anderson didn't pull the fasten on us and they used us as a stocking horse to be able to sell the property to 01:25:12
X Development for a higher price. We were really appreciative of that. And then we went to X Development and they were actually 01:25:18
really helpful with us. 01:25:24
To say, look, we know that all of your people are parking on our land. We don't want that happen either. We also know that our 01:25:30
customers are going to be your people so let's work together and the city got involved, X development got involved, the HOA got 01:25:37
involved, the community got involved and we were able to get some investment money to purchase this land and build a parking lot. 01:25:45
It took three years, it took a long time these problems are created quickly and solved slowly but. 01:25:52
It took a long time for us to get the parking lot down. We built it this, We finished it this past year, and now we have 150 spots 01:26:00
more that we've been able to allocate. Fifty of those spots became visitor parking. So we doubled the visitor parking in our 01:26:07
community, and it's absolutely fantastic. Like I just someday I just sit out staring out the window, just admiring all of the 01:26:15
extra park. I have it displayed on the TV over there. Yeah, there it is. How? 01:26:22
How did you raise your money? Was it an assessment that you that you did to your community? No, no, no, no. Walk us through that 01:26:31
process. So the way that we did it for me, I was absolutely adamant that our community was not going to pay any extra dollars for 01:26:36
this project. 01:26:42
And refinance the entire thing. And so now all we have now is a monthly payment to Bank of Utah that is completely 100% covered by 01:27:18
the parking permits that we sell. So we have 100 new spots, including 68 old spots, and every one of those dollars goes towards 01:27:27
paying down this parking lot. Now we're interested in RDA money too, if we can actually look at that. 01:27:36
But we wanted the parking lot to be completely self-sufficient and it is. 01:27:46
It is and the parking is $125.00 a month and we have all but about 3 like we're talking about if you have 100% and there's people 01:27:51
that are left out, we have all of a but about 3 who are not utilized. And we had a waiting list of probably 75 people before we 01:27:58
have the parking lot. So this is, this is not a solution for everybody because not everybody has space next to their communities 01:28:06
to build a new parking lot. It's not, but it is a way to to show you that. 01:28:13
If you can think outside the box, use a little bit of private help, public help the city developers. 01:28:21
Some people within your community, there are ways to solve these problems that don't just mean booting more, towing more and. 01:28:30
Basically Gestapo style, going into each house and making sure everyone's having the right amount of renters. Yeah, that's 01:28:40
absolutely right. You also assessed your green space and you re stripe for emergency vehicles. 01:28:46
And then you did shared parking, which was pretty incredible. 01:28:52
So we tried to. We tried to solve it with enforcement. We tried to solve it with. 01:28:57
Just having additional spots put into the various areas that that I think the fire Marshall came in and said that we had too many 01:29:03
thoughts, the roads were too narrow, and so we had to take out a bunch of those spots and it wasn't enough anyway. And so we tried 01:29:11
a bunch of things, we experimented and eventually we just realized we just need more. We just need more. 01:29:18
And then directly after that we, the RDA did. 01:29:28
Work with a group that was open and amenable. The same group on a parking structure next door. So that's right. 01:29:33
They're going to build a parking garage, just like Sean saying that under the microphone because I stole it. But I want it on 01:29:43
record. So if you see anything we can add to the board for that, please. 01:29:47
I'm talking about RDA money. 01:29:54
In talking with some of the religious leaders that are facing this and the. 01:29:57
That right of like, hey, you're, you're helping an amenity to try to stop turnover so that we can build a community instead of 01:30:33
like having such turnover, like driving them away. I think I heard two things there that I thought were interesting. Let's look 01:30:38
at. 01:30:43
And Sean really brought it to a head in the beginning and then Jake followed it. It's parcels next door from land owners. I think 01:30:49
we've talked about it in the past. Let's bring it back to the front. And then we also talked about. 01:30:56
That's what was the last thing they said, market correction. I think that we need to talk about what that looks like and what 01:31:04
parking generally looks like and and how that fits into this discussion. 01:31:09
I mean North, and I'm Dale Tedro from the village. 01:31:16
All right. I'm really impressed with a lot of the comments that some of the things that I wanted to say you already have in the 01:31:21
works. I'm grateful for that. I heard we paved Paradise and put a parking lot. We should look for those spots that aren't Paradise 01:31:28
that are open. One, for instance, is in the townhomes right off of 300 W, but a lot of the tenants thought were landlords or 01:31:36
whatever thought were going to be parks for their kids, then they're right across. 01:31:43
At Beach Park, I get that, but that possibly could handle some overflow parking. You know more about the zoning of it than I do, 01:31:51
that's for sure. And I'm not here. Well, I also see in these solutions, which are great that the key to that is collaboration and 01:32:00
accountability. And that involves the landlords, the developers, the HO as and and the city, of course and you talked about. 01:32:09
The developers submitting. 01:32:19
Parking. 01:32:22
Studies and so on. Well, it sounded like that was at the beginning and then things changed, rapid growth, everything else. It 01:32:24
seems to me there should be a step by step inspection process. Show me your plan that's going to account for the change that we 01:32:31
see going on. We see change all the time because we're from the village and we've seen a lot now and then we know we're not the 01:32:39
point of the sphere, but we have a lot of experience and. 01:32:46
And so on to share. One of those things that I came here to do is to issue a preemptive strike. And I see that you already have 01:32:54
dotted lines around the villas rather than as a solution rather than solid lines. Grateful for that. But I don't think the villas 01:33:02
being overflow parking for the poor planning of anyone else is a rumor. 01:33:10
And if it's a rumor, Hallelujah, I'm so glad. I want you to squelch it for me. We squelched it today. 01:33:19
Here in this public meeting. OK, not true. Never was. 01:33:25
OK, so change those dotted lines even as possible then? Yeah, there are many reasons. It was just identifying your neighborhood as 01:33:29
a parking pass program neighborhood. 01:33:35
Because we don't because you guys came in and got your restriction. So to show that you did something that's right and we took 01:33:44
care of it and that's just showing another neighborhood could reflect what you've already done. Well, that's great. I like what 01:33:49
you I like what you added. 01:33:54
Because we didn't state it, all the words here kind of claiming it and it's that we have somebody doing a parking study to 01:34:00
evaluate it. So let's put that up on a board. And then another thing is we do a third party study now because instead of having a 01:34:06
developer come in and do it and the city do it on their own, we have to have somebody do it that we both are looking at and 01:34:13
finding. 01:34:19
Middle ground because of exactly what you're saying so. 01:34:26
Without that, yeah, I have the language here. So you mentioned kind of reevaluating parking as stuff gets built out. And so 01:34:30
something that happened, what year was that? 2022 I believe the City Council changed the code for the downtown parking to require 01:34:37
study to be taking place at 500 residential units, 15103 thousand and 5000 residential units. And the the neat thing about this 01:34:44
the study is that this third party will will do the study, examine what the parking demand for that area is. 01:34:52
Automatically update our code to reflect those minimums. So if they are way under parked for those first 500 units, our code is 01:35:00
automatically updated. Before we allow anybody else to move into those neighborhoods, we require them to build up to the 01:35:06
additional parking. We don't want to be doing this again, right? So this study, this study will happen up to four times where 01:35:13
we're going to be reevaluating that number to really right size that parking so that we don't have this problem in the future. 01:35:20
And future councils will always have to deal with it. That's the interesting thing that we have. But we're going to put in 01:35:27
safeguards as much as we can to make sure that we have this. So thank you for stating them out loud. Let's add them to the board 01:35:33
to make sure that we're educating and doing it right so that you have the right information. 01:35:38
And we can continue them to call the villas our Mayberry or our little. 01:35:44
That's right. You're Oasis. That's beautiful. 01:35:49
We would never. 01:35:53
It's OK. 01:35:56
My name is Tyler Harrelson, I believe in Edgewater. I'm glad to see someone else here. 01:36:01
My suggestion got a couple suggestions. So biggest 1 is like when we talk about having six people in a house or four people in a 01:36:08
house or 10 people in a house and they have six cars or four cars or 10 cars. It's each adult has one car. To me, kind of what 01:36:16
Cole was saying of of like, you know, we can't fix the problems of the past, like we can't go back and turn back time. 01:36:24
But. 01:36:32
I think that that's, it would be great if we would have had an option to have not have to take a car to work or not have to take a 01:36:35
car to every place that we go to. So then you could have 10 adults and they have five cars, or they have four adults and they have 01:36:41
two cars or three cars or how many it is. You know, if you cut down the number of people who need a car by 20%, suddenly you have 01:36:48
20% more parking, right? 01:36:54
So that's kind of the general idea. I'd like to see more biking and transit infrastructure. So to give some examples, you said you 01:37:02
wanted to hear what I'm observing. So my little brother is a big daredevil and he loves mountain biking and he loves biking all 01:37:08
over the place. He came to my house to visit probably a month ago. 01:37:15
He visits fairly often. 01:37:23
And this one day I was like, OK, be here at this time. And he rode in on his bike and I was like, this is new. Apparently he had 01:37:26
not liked that he couldn't find a visitor parking space in our development. So he's like, I'll ride my bike. And of course, I'm 01:37:33
really into this stuff. So when he got there, I was like, so how was it? And he was like, I will never, ever ride my bike ever 01:37:40
again because he had to cross Mill Road. And he just about got hit. And he was like, this is the most horrible place in the world. 01:37:47
He was like, I'll go park at the movie theater, I'll park at talk golf and go walk over to your development rather than ride my 01:37:55
bike again. And and this kid is like, like he jumps out of airplanes. 01:38:00
For fun. He's insane. He's a daredevil, right? And even he was not OK with Mill Rd. being how unsafe it was. And I had a similar 01:38:05
experience when I used to live at Edgewater just across Mill Rd. We would to go to the movie theater, my wife and I, we would get 01:38:12
in our car, drive 30 seconds to the theater and then drive back because we had also crossed Mill Rd. even at the the designated 01:38:19
crossing and it was not safe and we were really uncomfortable. 01:38:27
So now you've got. 01:38:35
More people taking up visitor parking with my brother even though he would love to bike. And you've got a bunch of people taking 01:38:37
up movie theater parking. So if you have better parking options that would be great. And I'm sure if a specialty college kids, if 01:38:44
they were able to take transit to work, I would love to take transit to work. I love working Pleasant Grove, but there's no trains 01:38:50
and no like I'd add like 30 minutes to my 15 minutes to commute. 01:38:57
If I wanted to take a bus, so if you made the buses faster, you could put in trains that were faster. 01:39:04
And I'm sure tons of college kids would just love to sell their cars and not have car expenses and not have to pay for parking 01:39:10
fees, would love to take their bike to college or take public transit to work to their work or their college. 01:39:17
If they could just get there safely and get there fairly quickly, and I do see that a little bit. I noticed on the map one of the 01:39:25
areas that had a little bit less. 01:39:31
Problem with too much, not enough space with northern Edgewater that's right across the street from all the commercial development 01:39:38
there and I see people all the time for their leisure and also some people who were dressed up in work uniforms for the. 01:39:46
The movie theater, they're clearly walking to work and it's like, great, some high school kid didn't have to buy a car. So even 01:39:55
though it's two adults and a high school kid, they didn't have to have three cars. They only had two because the kid works at the 01:40:00
movie theater and he just walks. So I would love to see more options where you don't have to take a car. Then you don't have to 01:40:06
worry about as much enforcement. You don't have as much of a problem. OK, so let's add to the board our active transportation 01:40:11
plan. 01:40:17
We could do some education on the TAG grant, the regional transportation grant, kind of highlight maybe where priorities for me to 01:40:23
go. Maybe we send something out that talks about safety priorities and where the biggest key issues are that we've identified. I 01:40:31
think that touches on what you just mentioned. And then we also have our BAC that's now actually trying to look at active 01:40:38
transportation. So we can kind of maybe let them make an announcement. 01:40:46
Do and be part of this broader community discussion. And then we are the multimodal transportation hub for the Northern Utah 01:40:53
County. So we can talk about that. We have it on transportation I believe, but let's make it more apparent and then just add on 01:41:00
really quick the active transportation. We're doing the Mill Rd. study right now, so. 01:41:07
The idea is to keep the same capacity in the road for traffic but make it in a safer Rd. with better crossings so that you don't 01:41:15
have situations like they could call out. OK perfect. I think we addressed it. 01:41:21
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. I live in the preserved neighborhood. 01:41:28
Of a few thoughts. 01:41:33
One is that sometimes it feels like in discussions like these were. 01:41:36
We're dangerously close to abandoning all tenets of capitalism. And in saying that, that won't work for parking because parking is 01:41:40
different. 01:41:45
But I think we heard a great example of where when people want more of something, they can pay for more of something. And I 01:41:51
understand that not every neighborhood is. 01:41:56
Situated exactly like yours and has an empty parcel right next to it. But even in the lakefront neighborhood or in my 01:42:02
neighborhood, you can buy more parking by having fewer roommates. And some people don't want to do that. And that's fine. And I'm 01:42:10
not saying that they should or shouldn't do that. I'm saying that's their choice to make and we should let them make that choice. 01:42:17
The second thing here is I'm sure that if we gave our water away for free. 01:42:24
We would have a lot more backyard pools and I'm sure that at some point some institutional investor would realize what we were 01:42:32
doing and would say, hey, we should go build like all of our data centers in vineyard because all of their water is free. And I'm 01:42:38
sure everybody would think of every water intensive use that they could build here. And I would say let's go do it in vineyards 01:42:45
because vineyards a great place because they give their water away for free. 01:42:52
And we have a picture here of a street that's inundated with cars and I think we give that parking away for free. And, and just 01:42:59
the other week, my neighbor who rents out to multiple roommates and they do the stacked tandem parking thing and they all drive 01:43:05
tracks and it's. 01:43:11
Impressive that they can manage that chaos. He was asking me, he's like, we can rent spots down at the lakefront now for 5 bucks a 01:43:19
month. And I said, yeah, I think it's open to everybody. And he said I would pay so much more than that to get rid of this tandem 01:43:25
parking problem with my roommates. And then I think he signed up for something and it's it. 01:43:32
It's, I think it's frankly absurd to think, oh, well, if we've reached, if we created these conditions where if we've reached 100% 01:43:40
maximum occupancy, then that just means that we have to build more of the things that. 01:43:46
I called up the apartments that I could get in touch with on Mill Road and the going rate for their cheapest, least desirable, 01:43:54
nobody wants this parking spot is $30.00 a month. 01:43:59
And to say, you know, I don't know the market, maybe $5.00 a month is right. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but but it is 01:44:05
a market. It is capitalism that is going to best allocate our scarce resources. We shouldn't give our water away for free. That 01:44:10
would be dumb. 01:44:16
We shouldn't give, we shouldn't give our scarce land away for free just because people expect that we do. The other point that I 01:44:23
want to make here? 01:44:28
I think we've captured it on the board, unless you want to do something additional like maybe your solution beyond permits, beyond 01:44:34
CCNR, beyond accountability measures would be metered parking, parking pay. Is there something else that you're thinking or there 01:44:41
is and it's minimum parking requirements and maybe I'll guess when Scott said this, but minimum parking requirements are not 01:44:48
working. 01:44:54
And I think it's very poor policy and the existence of this meeting and all of these complaints, I feel like there's evidence that 01:45:02
minimum parking requirements is not good policy. Whoever set these requirements according to whatever made-up logic that they used 01:45:09
and said this is going to work and maybe it worked at the time and maybe we've evolved beyond that, but it's a very rigid, 01:45:17
inflexible system. OK, so. 01:45:24
Let's look at both city code and then state code on those two things. Yeah, I will add part of this parking study. Ave. has 01:45:31
actually examined our parking code and our parking standards and stuff like that that we'll be bringing back to the public and the 01:45:37
council. This is known as it's on the board and we don't forget it. Yeah, absolutely. 01:45:43
And now I have a personal story because logic, I feel like never works in conversations about parking. So hopefully an emotional 01:45:51
appeal will work here. I've lived in Utah County for about 15 years. I came here as a college student and I've stayed and I've 01:45:57
loved it and I've lived here enjoying the whole experience and. 01:46:03
For a very short time during those 15 years have I owned a personal vehicle to get around. 01:46:11
To be fair, a lot of my family lives in being heard and we share a couple of vehicles, so it's not like I never use a car, We use 01:46:20
a car. We just charmed them because they're expensive and it's great to not have to carry the whole burden. But during that entire 01:46:27
15 year period, I've almost never used a parking spot. But I've always paid for a parking pot, whether that's a renter having to. 01:46:35
Pay for the embedded cost of parking in my housing or now as a homeowner who has unoccupied spots that I let my neighbor park in 01:46:43
because I don't use it and that is just baked into my mortgage. And and you've said this arbitrary bar to say you have to be at 01:46:51
least this wealthy and that wealthy is to say you have to be able to afford rent and including in that rent is parking in order to 01:46:58
live in Vineyard and in. 01:47:06
And I think that if any one of you or anybody in the audience here or anybody listening to this later would have the curiosity to 01:47:14
use a bike or get on the bus or use these other transportation methods, you'll see the people who can't afford a car using that as 01:47:23
transportation. And almost all of them are still paying for parking that they don't use. 01:47:31
That they're getting by on whatever. It would be probably great for a lot of them if they could afford a car. And I'm not saying 01:47:41
that we should set parking maximum so arbitrarily drive away people's abilities to own cars and to pay for them and use them as a 01:47:48
tool to increase their economic mobility. That would be terrible policy. But equally terrible policy is forcing people who can't 01:47:55
afford to own a car to still have to pay for parking that they don't use. 01:48:02
That's all I got. 01:48:11
OK. 01:48:12
I'm Carla Hughes. I'm at the Villas. 01:48:16
And we have talked a lot. We have a nice list. 01:48:19
There are some solutions that have been talked about, but what concerns me is that we're going to get stuck in the here and now. 01:48:25
And we're going to look at that nice list and we're going to go through it. And then we're going to go look what great work we've 01:48:32
done when in fact we do need to do that great work, But we need to think out-of-the-box for the future. We cannot, we cannot 01:48:40
afford to wait until it's time for the next emergency 7:00 meeting to talk about parking. And I think that one of the things that 01:48:47
we need to do is when you say look out-of-the-box, we don't have many. 01:48:55
Revenue streams in Vineyard. I think we need to look at where our revenue streams when it comes to parking. And I just, you know, 01:49:02
I drive Vineyard Loop Rd. and I think, wow, I wonder how far those people walk, you know, for those terrible parking places on the 01:49:11
street in the rain and the smell and the cold. And wouldn't it be better if we had, as someone mentioned earlier. 01:49:20
A parking garage where we could sell safe. 01:49:30
Undercover parking places and there are people I know there are people who cannot afford to live. 01:49:34
In Vineyard without being roommate. 01:49:43
Type of people, right? But there are people who can afford those parking spaces if they can, if they can afford to park a Tesla 01:49:47
down by the train station, they can pay for a parking place. And so I think we need to look at those options if we get UTA or 01:49:54
whoever it is that we're talking about to, to build that parking garage. 01:50:02
As Jake mentioned, you know in university towns what they usually do is when they do a parking garage, and parking garages are 01:50:12
expensive. 01:50:16
But what they usually do is they add a couple more floors and commuter parking gets a spot or someone who lives in the 01:50:20
neighborhood can buy a spot. And that's pure revenue. And so I think we need to look at how can we solve this? People are already 01:50:27
parking far away. They're already walking. Then what can we do to make it safe? 01:50:34
And also create a great environment for Vineyard. Thank you. Thank you. 01:50:42
As we've already kind of been going and investing and doing those things with parking garages, maybe we talk about. 01:50:49
We talked about new negotiations, but let's talk about phasing and what's being done and and how it pencils. You need some kind of 01:50:56
feasibility. 01:51:01
Discussion happening here. 01:51:07
I've said this before, but I missed her. Daria Evans. 01:51:13
And. 01:51:17
But. 01:51:19
But just a couple comments. Adele Tedro talked about that space over in Lakefront. It's just it's ugly. It's got weeds on it, it's 01:51:23
not maintained, it's an eyesore, and also it's a fire hazard in the summer. That's a potential spot. 01:51:31
But we walk by that and just shake our heads. Every once in a while some three guys come by and take a couple couple days, knock 01:51:39
the weeds down. But I don't think it's even happened this year. 01:51:43
But also looking at the future. 01:51:48
I just perceive more parking problems in the future, like it's been brought up and I think that there's a. 01:51:51
Mindset that somehow people are going to be riding more bicycles, people are going to be walking more. 01:51:57
Notice that there's requirements for bike racks in all these places. I've yet to see a full bicycle rack in the city. Yet to see 01:52:02
one. Doubt I will. To be honest with you, and I've said this well over a year ago multiple times, Apple parking will be sufficient 01:52:08
parking. 01:52:14
And builders, there's no money in parking and so that's why they don't want it. And it just needs to be those the parking needs to 01:52:21
be up. 01:52:25
And I guess those are my comments and. 01:52:31
I think we need to stop studying what we're going to build and we need to start studying who lives here and how we live and 01:52:35
justice. Look at hey, this house here has this many and this wasn't a lot and go and study the HOA and talk to him and say, what 01:52:42
did we make a mistake on and what should we have done? And that's the study. It's not this figurative. Hey, this is the building 01:52:49
and this is the design and this is this and we think it's there and it's because it's not. It's like. 01:52:56
Look at it and then and then in any budget that I do, it's always plus 10%. Just add the 10% say sorry, you know, I think that 01:53:04
that's the study. OK. So we've got an occupancy discussion happening and we've done demographic studies. I think that's what 01:53:13
Jake's referring to. We've also done like this is how we do some of our building reports, but maybe we bring that back together. 01:53:21
In in this discussion. 01:53:31
At Jacob Wood Lakefront, I really appreciate this discussion. We all have different opinions, but I appreciate you guys sitting 01:53:33
down talking about these solutions because this is an issue with young people. It's a major issue. And after the change of the 01:53:41
enforcement 300 W to the to the city pass, a lot of people are hurt by that. OK, But I'm not going to talk about the past. I'm 01:53:48
going to talk about the future. And I think the best case scenario for 300 W is to allow HOA passes. 01:53:55
OK, I think that's the best comments and solution. 01:54:03
And I'd like to hear you guys position on that. We did put it up there. So we gotta study out the the pros and cons of it and then 01:54:06
we could. 01:54:10
I think that's what they're gonna go in and look at, OK? 01:54:17
So all the people who were booted on 300 W, how many of them had HOA tests? 01:54:20
We don't have any Well and I'll tell you why I don't think back and forth on this is good and and why we shouldn't do it. Bringing 01:54:26
this idea to the table. I don't want to shoot down your idea just because I have half the information and I don't want to just go 01:54:32
for it and then make a decision like we're saying that could have bad implications when one of the things I did mention to the 01:54:38
City Council that right off the bat we would have to address. 01:54:45
Just at surface is every time that you pay for something, why are we paying for it, right? 01:54:52
For a past so that we can maintain whatever facility that we're putting through. Now you have a group of people paying for a pass 01:54:59
with parking on a facility and they take the money and they run whatever, whatever group is managing it. We don't necessarily in 01:55:05
this conversation know where that money goes, how it reverts back to the road, how we do any of that. We don't know whatever money 01:55:10
goes to the HOA, how they maintain their roads or their facilities or what they're using on that side. And so that kind of 01:55:16
conversation right here is a really. 01:55:22
Mission broke. You can pay the booty. They lived here. And you know, paying that was really hard. It was really hard. So I feel 01:55:59
like that solution. 01:56:03
It really passes along. That's common sense. So we hope you guys consider that and do it OK. A lot of solutions too. So I really 01:56:08
hope this is not just like a meeting then six months from now. We just like whatever happened, you know. So I really hope we can 01:56:13
take some of these ideas, good ideas. Hope you guys. 01:56:18
Put aside your differences, work with HOA, I believe there can be a deal worked out. So I really hope we can solve this issue 01:56:25
because putting your beliefs aside, a lot of people are being hurt by that, a lot of people. 01:56:30
I specifically asked Sean to come and talk about his HOA and their issue with parking and how they solve the problem proactively. 01:56:38
Marty and I had discussions with your HOA and back and forth to try to help solve the problem the best we could. There was a point 01:56:48
where we talked about additional parking that could be added in your community and they shot it down. 01:56:56
And so I want, I want that to be on record and I want you to understand because then I had a conversation with you and you said 01:57:06
there's all of these places where lakefront could add their own parking, right? So it really is a matter of perspective. And if we 01:57:14
all take a certain amount of ownership on what we can all do to solve the problem, then we come to a better. 01:57:21
Problem was that the original builders of Lakefront did not follow their code. 01:57:32
And where was the punishment? Where was the punishment? So is it fair for the HOA to have to pay for the consequences of the 01:57:37
developers? 01:57:42
I am going to tell Fabric here. I'm so sorry but developers made it, made a bad decision. City didn't regulate how we think they 01:57:49
should have. 01:57:55
And I don't know, I wasn't on the council when it happened. 01:58:01
Because of that happened, what I'm trying to say is. 01:58:06
I'm not trying to be insensitive, I just really the capitalism here and I feel like you guys own the property. You need more 01:58:12
parking spots. The city wants to be a good partner here and it would be great to see you guys buy into the solution. Not saying 01:58:20
financially necessarily, but find solutions that can help your complex more and you've already done that by doing your parking. 01:58:28
Pass program to start with because before there was no regulations within your parking and that was when we worked together and we 01:58:37
had retained to the table and it was a good solution and I think it has improved your situation. 01:58:42
But I also think, like Sarah was saying, it would be great to have collaboration here where it's not just the city that needs to 01:58:47
solve the problem. And I totally agree. 01:58:53
I think the great news about that is that we've got your solution there. The solution that you talked about with Sarah, I think is 01:58:59
there. We've got some opportunities where we talked about nearby parcels, we talked about opportunities for green space within 01:59:05
your own area. 01:59:11
Where we could change our code if we need to. And so I think there's ways for us to come together and have that conversation. And 01:59:17
are you seeing anything else that you want to add to the list here? I think we got a lot of it. So I just my concern is just at 01:59:24
least one of those things happen. And I like what you pointed out and and I believe Carla Hughes did this too, Carla, right? 01:59:32
One of the things that we don't want to happen and I think our staff do an excellent job of. 01:59:41
They immediately take things and go to work. And so they're not going to let this sit. They're they're going to immediately take 01:59:47
it. They're going to organize it. They're going to say what staff resources and time we have available for it. And then we're 01:59:53
going to come back out. We're going to sell you exactly when we have the time scheduled before us and we're going to have the hard 01:59:59
conversation. So I think we're on and the over renting issue. I mean, it's a contract, it's complex issue. I've seen it. I know. 02:00:06
A family that has like, I think like 10 people living there, lots of cars. So it is an issue. 02:00:13
That solving that's going to be difficult. I don't like the idea of what, you know, someone knock on my door and say, oh, can I 02:00:19
check your bedroom? So many beds there. 02:00:23
And I would say just as a personal note, when we do review commitments, it might be good to just look at your CC and ours because 02:00:29
they are very different from other CC and Rs in the community, yours personally at that facility. And you might want to go and 02:00:36
tell the rest of your community, let's change these, let's update them. That was a recommendation that we made. And I think you 02:00:43
might want to because you, you all. 02:00:50
When I look at them and we read them and we talk about them out loud, none of you like them. And I think that it would be 02:00:58
meaningful to the people that own the land there to own the houses there, to agree with what is in your codes. And you have the 02:01:03
ability and the the power to do that, OK. 02:01:08
OK, sweet Karen. And then you could come back up if you would like. 02:01:14
Karen Cornelius, Phyllis, This is wonderful. 02:01:22
It will take months to get through, but it's wonderful because people have been heard. But the one thing I don't see there that 02:01:26
you always hear from me is what are we doing about Utah City? Are we going to repeat this? And I'm telling you, there's not enough 02:01:33
parking over there in this temporary seven-year parking lot and there is no covering and it is a vertical parking lot. I don't 02:01:39
know why. 02:01:46
I don't know why the plans for these kinds of buildings are even. 02:01:54
Accepted when we don't maybe take the first two stories and make them parking. No, I, I think what you're saying really hits on 02:02:00
something that somebody else in your neighbor had actually said. So it's the temporary donation that they gave to UTA. So we 02:02:07
talked about talking with UTA. We're already working on it. But I say we put it back up there and we have a new discussion on it. 02:02:13
It was partnership. There was additionally paid opportunities inside of that parking garage. 02:02:20
We talked about incentivizing parking early, what that looks like. 02:02:27
And allowing people to buy. Then we also talked about, and I think this gets the heart of what you're saying is a third party 02:02:32
person that comes in and assesses parking and holds them to occupancy, but not after seven years, it's 400 units. Another question 02:02:41
I have and maybe it's way out there is why do they not? Why do the developers of Utah City not send representatives? 02:02:51
Meetings like this and hear what the community would like. You know what they need to be here. You're right. I love that you're 02:03:01
saying this. What we didn't want was. 02:03:07
Their insights into this, we wanted it to be community driven and then we could have them come to the next one. So I think we can. 02:03:14
I think that's kind of disappeared. That's how I feel. And I don't think things are going grand over there. Oh, OK. And I think we 02:03:20
need a report as citizens. 02:03:26
Let's, let's add it to it, let's add it to the list that we can get an update from this group and not just this group. Let's get 02:03:32
an update from our developers and what's happening with parking. Because another question I have about what the developers have 02:03:38
gotten away with is the narrow, narrow streets. 02:03:44
I can't tell you how many times going to see my daughter just across Main Street when I have been confronted by a UPS truck and 02:03:51
there is not room for both of us, okay. And I I think we need to expect that these developers are going to lose a few more Dimes 02:04:00
to give us a little more driving space for safety. So that those are just my thoughts about this thing. 02:04:09
Thank you so much. Yeah. 02:04:18
I think we have to keep in mind too, is that is that the build out was so fast, right? And there's no we're new to the council and 02:04:22
you've been there for six years, seven years, right? So the truth is, is that we're going to have to learn from some of our 02:04:29
mistakes, right? You go down where Kim lives and then the roads are way too narrow, right? And we are going to have to learn from 02:04:36
from our mistakes and go forward. The important thing is that is that we realize that we are. 02:04:43
Aware of those mistakes, we realize that it's not a great quality of life when that's the situation. 02:04:50
Cash mentioned that they have a new parking policy in place and they're they're the builders. The developers are required to do an 02:04:59
independent study, not they don't get to pick it independent to prove that they're sufficiently part. If they're not sufficiently 02:05:04
parked, they have to add parking before they get any more occupancy. So they can't rent out one more apartment until they build 02:05:10
their parking. 02:05:16
Sufficient for what their development is so that's in place right now that's only been two years that that's been in place so so 02:05:22
I'm. 02:05:26
It's important that we understand, right, that this is this is a new city and and a quickly growing city and there weren't things 02:05:32
in place four years ago that are in place now. So we don't keep repeating the problem. So it's important that you understand that. 02:05:39
Everyone is aware and watching. 02:05:46
Yeah. And I would say this something that you, your involvement is so exciting about having all of you here. This, this will 02:05:49
continue to be the case. When I moved in, the roads were too thin and I went and made them wider. And right now, one of the things 02:05:56
that we've been working on is we want more great connections. But in the beginning, there was this opportunity where we had to 02:06:03
shut that in order to get Center St. and the people before us. 02:06:11
Dealt with the cards that they had and now these new groups and not just this council, the council before and the council before 02:06:19
had to renegotiate and reopen all those access points. So today's discussion that you're having right now will be tomorrow's 02:06:26
discussion that you come back and I hope you stay involved because it's going to be continuous. I want to, I want to respond to 02:06:32
Sarah's, the HOA and creating new parking, right? 02:06:39
And and as a member of the. 02:06:47
Lakefront HOA Board OK, here's here's what here's what I'm willing to say is we would be willing to do that. But what it 02:06:49
continued, what it continues to feel like is the city says you guys need to do this and then we do it. 02:06:56
And then you guys need to do this and then we do it. And then you guys need to do this and then we do it. And then and, and then 02:07:05
when we ask the city to help us. 02:07:09
It's not happening, right? So would we be willing to create more parking in Lakefront? Yes. But right now we're asking the city to 02:07:14
help U.S. Open up 300 W, open up Vineyard Loop, allow those passes. And then if we find that we reach that 100% capacity and that 02:07:23
we still don't have enough, then we can say, all right, Lakefront, you guys. 02:07:31
Need to do this, this, this and this. 02:07:41
And and and but. 02:07:43
My contention is. 02:07:45
If we allow those passes on 300 W and Vineyard Loop that it will not completely solve the problem, but it will significantly help 02:07:47
solve the problem. I would like to see near capacity of those spots being used on 300 W and Vineyard Loop and I don't feel like 02:07:55
we're there yet. So what we're doing and what we continue to try to do. 02:08:04
Just hasn't been working those those those parking stalls. 02:08:13
Whether it says on my map public parking or not were part of the numbers that were configured into the parking stalls when those 02:08:19
units were sold to us. And so I, I, I just don't, I continually struggle to understand why that community does not have access to 02:08:28
it without getting booted or towed. And I think Sarah has a comment, but I, I think on the board. 02:08:37
How I would add to this is that we talked about clarifying commitments. 02:08:47
We talked about when we talked about moving the goal posts. So we talked about a timeline for what has occurred and how this was 02:08:52
solved in other areas. And I think what that will do is really establish what the requirements are. Because sometimes when you 02:08:58
hand out three requirements or you say, hey, if you can address these things, we can do these things and then you meet one and you 02:09:05
were focused on one. Was it that the goal post was moved? Was it that? 02:09:11
There was waiting that was happening. I think that's something that we can assess on the board and I think we wrote it down. 02:09:20
That can draw to what you're talking about and make sure that if that is happening, we don't do that, and if it isn't happening 02:09:26
that we address it and then we can show our path forward so expectations can be clear. I think we can satisfy that. 02:09:34
So a couple of concerns that I heard about just just opening up completely is that down by the lake you have transient people and 02:09:43
you would have you would have people that would literally park their vans and. 02:09:49
Decide they want to live there, right? So that's part of the reason why it said no parking from 1:00 to 5:00 AM. 02:09:56
Was to make sure that was continually cleared out. 02:10:02
So there's that issue and how you want to deal with that and that. 02:10:07
And. 02:10:11
It's not just hearsay 'cause I had a policeman warned my daughter not to go down by the lake after certain hours because we do 02:10:13
have homeless people that that go down there. So, so that is a concern. 02:10:18
That that you need to consider on 300 W. 02:10:25
What she's saying is that originally the reason why they blocked parking at night, which was one of the. 02:10:33
Discussions that we had before the permit parking winning was that it was to create a safer community for transient traffic. And 02:10:42
so one of the things that she's saying is if you're having people come in and we're opening up additional slots and we're just 02:10:48
removing that sign, does that add to it? And I think what you're saying is whatever solution that you're bringing forward is 02:10:55
permit parking. So it's not going to be an issue there. 02:11:01
Is that a good clarity? Yeah. 02:11:09
And the other thing too is, is if you have a concern that if it well if it's permit parking anyway, that doesn't open it up for. 02:11:11
For landlords to say, oh great that parking is open up now I can rent out two more rooms, right? Does that make sense? It's like, 02:11:23
is that going to create a future problem of over occupancy if if it just becomes open? 02:11:29
That's issued right now. I am going to do something that you might all hate. 02:11:37
But I don't want to do it for all of us. Raise your hand if you have something, a solution that is not on the board. 02:11:44
Because if you do, get out here. 02:11:53
And we're going to put it on a board and then we're going to get through this meeting. We're going to close it so that we get out 02:11:56
of here before 10:00. 02:11:59
I have to confess this really isn't serious, but I only have one car. I have A2 car garage, but half of the job, half of my garage 02:12:05
is my junk room now because I've only been there for 2 1/2 years and I still haven't gotten everything to fit in my house. 02:12:13
And I have driven past other homes at certain times and seeing the garage door open for A2 car garage and half of it is stuffed 02:12:23
with the kids bikes and. 02:12:28
You know, lawn equipment and stuff like that. I don't know how we could ever get everybody to clean their garage. 02:12:34
And it will never happen. But it's just a thought. It's not and it hasn't been. There's two things. 02:12:43
I think we could put that under that is something called market correction. It happens when you push parking back into an area. 02:12:50
People make do with the space that they have. And then the other one is CCN Rs and that's where you want to make sure your CC and 02:12:57
Rs say what you want them to say. OK, can I offer one other step that made me think of one other thing? 02:13:05
So. 02:13:14
One of the legal hurdles cities have when they're working with developers is this. 02:13:17
Thing called exactions and an exaction is. 02:13:23
When the city tells the developer you have to provide us a road and that exaction has to be proportionate to the impacts of their 02:13:27
development. If we demand more than we have to pay more and they could even sue us to pay more. And so we have to be careful to 02:13:34
get that amount right. You run into that issue a little bit with parking, especially when you're dealing with on street parking, 02:13:41
but. 02:13:48
Exactions. 02:13:55
And the analysis going into that and the analysis going into parking studies looks at current practices and current needs within 02:13:57
the city. And if we. 02:14:02
One of the assumptions that goes into that is you count the number of parking spots. And so you look at garages, driveways, we've 02:14:09
talked about, is it tandem parking where it really shouldn't count as two spots, right, because one person has to wake up early to 02:14:15
move their car for the other person to get out and go to work. The other thing that we often don't factor in is that people like 02:14:22
this store bikes and skis in the 1/2 of their garage. 02:14:28
And only park half of it. But when we do our parking counts, we count the garages 2 spots and it may be really helpful if the 02:14:35
communities are open to it. 02:14:41
To let us get some counts within the city of how do people actually use their garages and if it ends up that we have a certain 02:14:46
ratio where it's just used for storage and that's how people live. I know my garage is that half of it skis and bikes. 02:14:54
That. 02:15:03
If we get those counts, then we can use that data when we're telling the developers down the road how many parking stalls we need 02:15:05
per community. 02:15:09
I'm not suggesting that, but the anyway, thanks. Thanks for the long allowing me to the long answer. But I, I, I do think it's an 02:15:17
important data point that we often overlook and and I actually do want to add something to this as well. One thing that one of the 02:15:24
developments in NRC when it was built out, it was an investor built out community and they actually. 02:15:32
To maximize the parking that we already do have. 02:16:08
Right, give us the new one. Sorry, I forgot I had something else. So I'm on our HOA board and I'm trying to visit the rest of our 02:16:12
board that we should advertise this more, but there's an app called Spot Hero, which is like you can go find a parking spot and in 02:16:17
our neighborhood there's some amount of shared visitor parking. 02:16:23
Typically runs out pretty quick but there's probably like 70 or 80% of our townhouses have an extra spot. At least one extra spot 02:16:29
and like mine is but my neighbor use. But the idea is put stickers on our no parking signs and say hey you can find a spot if 02:16:35
people sign up here. 02:16:40
And maybe the benevolent version of this is like, hey, I just need a spot for a couple hours. Of course you can park in my 02:16:49
driveway for free or whatever, but there's no market or mechanism right now to be aware of that. 02:16:54
Existing at all, Maybe the more beefed up version of this is like, hey, parking is really 125 bucks a month and maybe I'm more 02:17:00
eager to rent out my driveway to whoever wants to park there anyway. No, that's true actually. So it was just added to the board, 02:17:06
but there are private companies here that use that and allow people to access it so that they can see it with a shared parking 02:17:13
thing that we discussed earlier. So thank you, that's good. 02:17:19
You'll have to tell me if this is a new item or not because I'm a little bit confused if it is or not. I just noticed when Jacob 02:17:29
was talking. 02:17:33
Their reactions that. 02:17:38
Our community was built to code. So my question is, is the code the same now as it was when Lakefront was built? And if it is 02:17:41
other, can we put an action item to revisit the code? It is different, but we did add the action item to reset it anyway. Perfect. 02:17:47
OK. And and that is ongoing right now with our program. OK, yeah. Because that's just the concern of Utah City coming in. If 02:17:54
they're using the same code that we use, then we have a problem. 02:18:01
That's right. Yep. OK, in multiple ways. Perfect. Thank you. Perfect. OK. 02:18:09
Thank you for taking the time for coming out. We're going to follow up with this. I hope you feel like you've been heard. If you 02:18:15
didn't leave your name on the document as you walked in, I hope that you do so that we can follow up with you And if you have 02:18:21
questions that you can continue to send them. If you have new ideas, continue to send them and we can aggregate those so that we 02:18:28
can be efficient with getting back and making this the most effective conversation that we can. 02:18:35
With that, I'm going to adjourn the meeting. Thank you. 02:18:42
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We are ready, all right. We're going to go ahead and get this meeting started. 00:00:01
See anything except on the agenda except for this? That's right. OK, I wanna tell you a little bit about the format, why we're 00:00:07
sitting down here. We are trying to have a roundtable. You can see it's complex because we have to have microphones cuz it's a 00:00:13
public meeting. And so it's kind of like we just moved on the ground level. But if you want to come up and get closer, that's what 00:00:19
this is really bad. It's about being inviting and letting you know that we really just want to strategize together so I want to 00:00:24
set. 00:00:30
Some expectations for all of us to have a really productive, awesome conversation. I'd say as a growing community that's been 00:00:37
growing as rapidly as we've been growing. There are so many growing things that we're all facing and one community coming in after 00:00:42
another doesn't really slow down and give people time to say how do we fix this community? And one time we solve 1 community and 00:00:48
that topples into another community because we take parking out of the villas and then that parking goes into the Springs and so 00:00:54
on and so forth. 00:01:00
And so the conversation has to keep going. And So what we really want to do tonight is drive the best opportunities to say, what 00:01:06
are you seeing? What can we do? What solutions are you bringing to the table? Now? If we start crossing paths, I'm probably going 00:01:13
to cut you off and say, hey, you, then you, then you. 00:01:19
And then we'll make sure everybody's heard. And I think that's going to be the best way that we can do this. We're going to start 00:01:26
out with Morgan kind of introducing a little bit of the topic of cash, introducing a little bit of the topic, and then we'll just 00:01:31
dive right in. 00:01:36
Yes, and when you want to make a comment. 00:01:42
Yeah, that's a good one. Somebody from the audience wants us to turn down the heat now. It's on the I just propped that door. OK, 00:01:45
We popped the door open. That'll get it a little cooler. It is warm, OK. It's going to get uncomfortable too, because I'm going to 00:01:52
keep telling you to get uncomfortable and come to the microphone. So it's going to feel less inviting and more formal. 00:01:58
To come to this microphone so that we make sure that this is on the public record. That's the ultimate goal is that this 00:02:05
roundtable and this steering committee is public. We want it to be this way. And so don't let it be awkward when I tell you to 00:02:11
come to the microphone and make it uncomfortable. OK Go ahead, Cash. Thank you, mayor and council for the time tonight. We've been 00:02:18
working with as a little background. 00:02:24
The planning department here has been working with Ave. Consultants for just over a year. 00:02:32
Now on this parking study, we've heard a lot of complaints from Vineyard residents about parking. And so we wanted to actually 00:02:37
collect some data to make smart decisions based off of that data. And so the beginning of tonight, we're gonna have our 00:02:44
consultants here. We have Thomas with Ave. who will provide some of that data, just kind of snapshot to show you what we've done. 00:02:51
And after that, we've over on that TV towards Tony if you want to wait. 00:02:58
Great. Sarah, did you want to add anything to this? I know this was a recommendation for me to put together. You've been working 00:03:37
really hard on parking and then maybe we'll have app and you say something and then we'll start. 00:03:42
I just want to thank you, mayor and staff for for doing this. I know this is this is a little different and I didn't expect the 00:03:48
podium. I thought that would. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just wondering, do we have, will you raise your hand if you're from lakefront 00:03:53
community? 00:03:58
We have representation Providence. 00:04:04
Anyone. 00:04:07
What about so Edgewater? Edgewater. Okay, unless Yamina any. 00:04:09
Great. OK. I just want to see that we had some sort of representation from some of the hotspots in the area. But but I really 00:04:17
appreciate the opportunity to do this format. I feel like it's important that you understand that, that we want to. 00:04:24
Be solution oriented and but we have to at least address all of the issues and the correct issues. And I feel like we can do that 00:04:32
tonight altogether. So thank you. I appreciate it. 00:04:37
Awesome. Good evening everyone. My name is Thomas Mortree. I work for Ave. consultants for local transportation consulting firm. 00:04:45
I've had the pleasure of working with Vineyard for the last year on looking at parking issues. I've been doing parking kind of 00:04:50
studies and transportation studies around the state for the last 20 years and and your staff is excellent. They're really kind of 00:04:55
on top of stuff and they really want to make kind of data-driven decisions. And so we collectively have been working on putting 00:05:01
together. 00:05:06
A bunch of data. 00:05:12
Looking at this. 00:06:43
Additionally, the South part of Lesamina is an area that kind of came up. This is kind of rude mats in the area just on the South 00:07:46
and right where it says Center Street, that label, that's an area that came up as well. And we've got some neat kind of data about 00:07:52
that. But we do have data for all of these neighborhoods if you're curious about them. 00:07:58
But I will say when we went back and looked specifically at a bunch of these neighborhoods including like Edgewater and the 00:08:05
Cottonwoods, which has Etus and things to kind of understand the stuff we're seeing, we weren't seeing like. 00:08:10
The issues that we were seeing were not that of like a growing concern that like like a fundamental change had happened, if that 00:08:17
makes sense so I wanna talk about lakefront for a few slides and again I'm gonna try to be brief. This is the same data just 00:08:23
zoomed in the lakefront. One thing of note is that there are only 50 unoccupied assigned stalls within kind of the entire area. So 00:08:28
these are just the on St. assigned. We do have data for driveways. If you're curious, I'll show that to you in a minute but when 00:08:34
we. 00:08:40
Data 300 W was occupied. In fact, on average we were seeing something like 88 cars parked there every single night between, you 00:08:46
know, 300 W and that little piece of in your Loop Rd. where again, parking was restricted so no one was allowed to park and yet 88 00:08:52
cars were every single night. And so this was something that we wanted to talk about. We met with Sarah and Marty and others in 00:08:59
the city to kind of work through what options exist. 00:09:05
Specifically, we were trying to see if there was a way to make that parking available to people who clearly wanted to kind of park 00:09:12
it, but also not necessarily like, you know, try to do it in the fairest, best way we can. We looked at several different options. 00:09:19
Where we landed was on a permit program, which we kind of, we talked about, you know, what we can kind of do. We developed this 00:09:26
plan, joined with the city, and then there's several things kind of within the permit program. But it adds, it allows folks to 00:09:34
purchase a permit to legally park on 300 W and to be there overnight during the restricted hours on a limited basis. So there's 00:09:41
only like 82 permits available for purchase. At the same time, the HOA made the clubhouse available for parking. 00:09:48
It was hard to see in that map, but we we measured every single car that was parked in the clubhouse and. 00:09:56
Overnight parking so we have 87 products. 00:10:31
We've collected a bunch of data to see how it's going. Oh, when it was announced, permits became available in August, Signs went 00:10:34
up almost immediately. There were these signs that were out there at nights. People knew there was a middle sign. You see, there's 00:10:40
about 30 of those located on 300 W that people can see and, and then it's been available. We have data. I'll show it to you here 00:10:46
in a second, but as that has, it was announced in August. 00:10:52
You know, it started in September. It we enforcement didn't begin until October. 00:10:59
But then in October, they have certain enforcement. And so you can see in this photo there's a truck that's been booted for not 00:11:03
having a permit. This is another couple photos of like a permit hanging in the windshield. So that's what looks like you have a 00:11:08
permit. And then if you don't, then you get booted and you can have your boot removed with a. 00:11:13
Oh, that's kind. I was like, I don't know if it'll work on the TV's, but yes, I appreciate it. That's good. So I mean, this is 00:11:22
kind of it's working, it's doing people, the permits are out there and people who have them to park there. So we've collected a 00:11:28
bunch of data on this neighborhood and how the permits are doing and kind of what's going on. I have two different tables maybe to 00:11:34
show you about this. 00:11:39
This table is kind of organized. This is all the lakefront parking and it's organized by the assigned off St. on the top. 00:11:46
The middle is those driveways. We have collect the data on driveways. We didn't do it in last October and and in March, but we did 00:11:51
in August, September and October over multiple nights. We collected all this data and then you can see the parking on 300 W and 00:11:58
ultimately the Vineyard Loop Rd. as well. The thing that I would point out to you is that the assigned off street parking that's 00:12:06
at the very top, you know, last October was at 86% occupied and 14% unoccupied. And now this October, we just posted this. 00:12:13
29th and 30th of October, we waited until late in the month so the enforcement would kind of like work itself out a little bit. 00:12:21
You can see we're at about 92% occupancy, so it's the highest it's ever been. So people are using their assigned stalls. And then 00:12:28
on 300 W where we now have the permit program. So last year, you know, we had 80 plus cars out there on on 300 W and then when it 00:12:36
was announced in August, it was about 5050, you know, about 41 cars. You can see permits in effect. 00:12:43
Had 58 people there but not enforced so in effect but not enforced 71% occupied and then when enforcement began that number 00:12:51
dropped Yep and we're at about 46% occupied and between you'll notice that that was a decrease of 20 stalls and then on Vineyard 00:12:58
loop rotors decrease of 1030 cars that were on 300 W are now off and 35 cars that were somewhere else are now in their assigned 00:13:06
stalls you know in their H280 assigned stalls so we feel like this is really working that the. 00:13:13
Change we wanted to see is happening and that people are taking advantage of the permit program. They parked on the street and be 00:13:21
good and those who don't have permits are then now knowing that they need to park where they're supposed to be. 00:13:26
We also measured a little bit of driveways. We have a bunch of data on the driveways themselves. We also, when we were out there 00:13:33
kind of looking at things, we collected data on how permits have been sold. There have been 77 of the 82 permits sold. You'll 00:13:38
notice when enforcement started in October, you see a spike in those sales people like, Oh my gosh, I don't like a Buddhist. It's 00:13:44
going to go buy a permit. And so like those are are up and there are a few left if people, is that right? Cash, a few left, Yeah, 00:13:50
as of this afternoon, I believe. 00:13:56
Permits available, Yep. And if people kind of want to get those permits, a lot of the things we measure parking at the park, This 00:14:02
is a Sunset park, just S Sunset Beach Park just South of there. People are parking there. They are parking there overnight. There 00:14:09
is a single signs that say no overnight parking, but it's not really enforced. And so that number has gone up. As you know, people 00:14:16
are looking for places to park and we're seeing on average about 26 cars there overnight every night. 00:14:22
In the park there's 62 stalls there so it's not like fully packed. 00:14:30
But there are people there every single night parking where they should be. This is a full data set. If you're curious 00:14:34
specifically about the clubhouse, a year ago there were no, I think it's on there. That second grouping last October, there was 00:14:40
nobody in the clubhouse. And then since we had the permit program, people are taking advantage of the club. So HOA is made 00:14:47
available, people are parking there, and they're parking there overnight. It's not fully occupied, but people are there. 00:14:53
So that's what's going on in Lakefront. If I could just take a few minutes and talk about La Shamana, I'd love to. 00:15:00
So this neighborhood again is one that seems very occupied. This is the occupancy data from last year in late October. 00:15:06
Blue is occupied on street, yellow is there's nobody parking there. The red areas are, there is a car there and there shouldn't 00:15:17
be. So these are people parking in restricted spots or illegally if you will. So we've got several of those that are happening. 00:15:23
Besides that, each of those little blue squares are crashes into parked cars that have been reported by the police and that data 00:15:29
has been like sent up. There are crash reports. 00:15:36
Four people smashing into parked cars. Besides just those crashes, there could be a bunch more that just don't get reported or 00:15:42
whatever, but we are concerned about that and specifically about the areas where there's like cars on both sides and it's kind of 00:15:47
narrow. 00:15:51
Are concerned with the chamber net is largely safety related here's all of the data that we've collected kind of over the last 00:15:56
year at different times. What I would point out is the percent of on street parking has increased not decreased so over the last 00:16:02
year is fuller now than it ever has been so there's more cars parking on the street now than there has been in the past so even 00:16:08
last year when we were looking at this we were like well you know it's not so bad maybe there's opportunities to kind of look at 00:16:13
things it's. It's. 00:16:19
There are more cars on the street now than there was a year ago. 00:16:25
And our concern in Lesamina is safety related. It's specifically people parking right by the stop signs. Here are a couple photos. 00:16:28
You can see you've got cars at night obstructing intersections, obstructing driveways in front of hydrants or in spaces that are 00:16:36
too tight. There's right by blocking the stop signs really in a slight distance, making potential dangerous situations and so. 00:16:44
That's kind of a concern related to these are those same kind of cars and they're occupant and and specifically those those black 00:16:53
cars are kind of shown where they shouldn't be. 00:16:58
Something to do there. The thing that we're thinking of is to look at an opportunity of maybe having on street parking available 00:17:32
to folks at one stall per household. There's about 136 on street spaces available and about 128 units. So there's enough for every 00:17:40
every house to have an on St. space. It might not be in front of your house, but we think that there's there's something to kind 00:17:47
of just continue to look at there to see what we can do to address safety. 00:17:55
That's kind of it. I've got a couple other kind of like. 00:18:03
Didn't we already do red curbing there? 00:18:07
But there are a lot of other areas that have no right curve and probably should. 00:18:40
And so it's those, it's that extension, there's some new stop signs, those intersections really should like have some curve. So 00:18:44
it's safer for people to see especially on those curves. And the two programs that came up in this one was no on street parking 00:18:49
and then a permit. 00:18:55
Pass. No, we never said no. Well, you didn't, but the ones that came and got participated to us. That's right. There have been a 00:19:01
few people that have requested that, but for the most part it is something more along the lines of the the permit program. OK, So 00:19:06
there's some discussion about this one when we looked at it. Is there an opportunity if we want to go through a permit program in 00:19:11
to allow people to have like one on St. space? 00:19:17
Would there be a spillage into Bridgeport? And that was something that we looked at specifically. We're not so concerned about 00:19:23
that. I mean, it might happen, but where we're seeing the parking problems, like even if they spill a little bit further north, it 00:19:30
would likely still kind of stay within. We're not so concerned that it would then be a problem for Bridgeport, if that makes 00:19:36
sense. We are getting petitions from the Bridgeport and the Willows, so. 00:19:43
Both of them are seeing it. So I imagine there would be some kind of spillage that would then make that a harder discussion. Is 00:19:50
there anybody from the Willows of Bridgeport? Bridgeport, OK. 00:19:55
Come to the microphone or go to that table. 00:20:01
State your name Carter Mix from Bridgeport. So everything that was described by the feminine is happening in Bridgeport. I live 00:20:05
right by the entrance of the Bridgeport across the street. There's four single adults living in the top floor, a couple in the 00:20:11
basement. So there's six cars in that house, 4 cars in the house next to it, 10 cars on the street at all times. They're always 00:20:17
parked right by the stop sign. I look out, I can see the entrance and I see probably one year accident every week at least. 00:20:23
Is there anything that you would like to see? I mean, are you thinking just because I want to put it all out there so that we can 00:21:01
study it. There's a parking permit pass that we've discussed that we have available right now in our ordinances that we can 00:21:06
address and that was discussed. And then there's no parking that we've done in the Villas and there's there's a few opportunities. 00:21:12
So from your perspective as a resident in that area, what are you looking at? I mean, my thought is if we could have a sort of and 00:21:18
maybe this. 00:21:24
The ordinances, but where everyone gets one parking spot on the street overnight, something like that where everyone gets a free 00:21:30
parking permit and then additional ones you have to pay for. I think that would take care of the problem. The other problem is the 00:21:34
red curving is not complete. That stop sign that I'm talking about has no red curbing. So there's someone parked there every 00:21:39
single day. But even where there is red curbing, there's a fire hydrant right outside my house and there's someone parked there 00:21:44
probably once a week, so. 00:21:48
Yeah, I mean, I think enforcement even of parking in illegal spaces would be would mean would do a lot. OK, so let's, OK, you've 00:21:54
got that going. Enforcement. I think something that I've heard too is the city just enforcing on over occupancy or those things, 00:22:01
Some things, I think it's a conversation we have to have because according to state law, there's just some things that we can't 00:22:07
do. But having this discussion here I think is important. 00:22:14
Saying stating the law, so maybe. 00:22:21
We could talk about occupancy as part of what we come back with to report to the residents, so we can kind of address what our 00:22:24
limitations are, what the state law says, what we're, what we're allowed to do and how we solve the problems that we see in 00:22:30
occupancy. So what one thing I can add to that discussion about occupancy, one thing that that we've been doing in the planning 00:22:36
department is examining what other cities do with issues of occupancy. 00:22:43
And a high rental neighborhoods and so most cities, especially those around college towns. 00:22:49
Do have some sort of landlord program where they do require landlords or property owners who rent out their houses to get a 00:22:55
license through the city and part of that they do have to. 00:23:00
Let the city know that they're gonna follow our occupancy limit of 400 individuals. We could have them include some sort of site 00:23:07
plan that shows that they have adequate off street parking and it would also give us contact. A lot of issues that we have with 00:23:13
occupancies. We don't have contact for the owner, only the people who actually live there. 00:23:19
And so this license would require them to provide us contact information for the owner so we can directly go to the owner and let 00:23:26
them know their concerns and hopefully get it fixed a lot faster. So as far as city ordinance, what like legally clearly they're 00:23:32
over occupied. So what is our ordinance for occupancy? 00:23:38
The basic rule is single family homes, you can have no more than 4 unrelated individuals. That's not something the city's in a 00:23:45
position to change. It stems from a string of Supreme Court cases that then have kind of filtered throughout the country. And 00:23:52
that's the standard that you can support without inviting litigation. The problem with enforcement if you don't have a business 00:24:00
license requirement is that. 00:24:07
You rely on almost Gestapo like complaints from neighbors and others about what's happening in a location and it's just not it 00:24:15
doesn't make for good neighbors right to be. 00:24:21
Telling on on the home that has too many people and then the other issue is it's often not the renter, the renters are just 00:24:29
looking for a place to live. The problem really is with the landlords that are renting to more people than what they should. When 00:24:36
you have a business license requirement, you can have inspections related to that business license and I'll say there are 00:24:42
legitimate safety reasons for those inspections because. 00:24:48
In my experience with cities that have that requirement, go in and do the inspections. You would be surprised how many phone calls 00:24:55
I get about. 00:24:59
Six beds in a 10 by 10 room or beds in a closet where there's not proper ventilation or exits in case of a fire. And so having 00:25:04
that in place does make the enforcement a lot simpler on the city's part. It also allows us if we have bad actor landlords. 00:25:14
To prevent them from getting future business licenses. So I do like, I favor some form of that and I I've litigated one of the few 00:25:24
cases in the state, the first case in the state that deals with. 00:25:31
Airbnb type rentals, I know yours is a little different because it's mostly college age and young professional age rentals, but 00:25:38
there is that. And then there's one other portion in state law that is a little bit limiting on cities that are not located in a a 00:25:45
town with a college. And that may be something that the city wants to push for a legislative change because we're not we're not in 00:25:53
Orem where the main UVU. 00:26:00
Is located so that statute doesn't recognize the city in the same way it does warm in Provo for some of those enforcement's. But I 00:26:08
think we have a lot of the UVU students that live here because of our proximity to the campus. And then clearly as the university 00:26:14
expands into Vineyard and begins building facilities that will change a little bit and that kind of law might help us get ahead of 00:26:21
that a little bit. And then the final other thing I would just know is that. 00:26:28
Some of the enforcement can be done by the Hoas in a much more active and. 00:26:35
A better way than what the cities can do because most of the HOA's in the city do have in their CCN, Rs and occupancy cap. 00:26:40
And a cap on the number of units that can be rental units. And they can enforce those with a broader set of tools than what the 00:26:50
city does because they can impose fines, they can force evictions, they can do things like that that aren't available to the city. 00:26:56
And if I may add something as well, and we've seen this in researching what other cities have done in regards to occupancy. It's a 00:27:02
very difficult thing to to to enforce. 00:27:08
But what other cities then we've seen this as well is once you address parking and you address some of those externalities that 00:27:15
may be an over occupied unit would have. 00:27:19
Then that tends to drop the occupancy down as well. So it might not be just, you know, trying to directly hit the occupancy, but 00:27:24
when you start to enforce the parking, the occupancy starts starts to drop down because people break their leases eventually and 00:27:30
the number of students or renters will drop. 00:27:35
OK. So maybe on the last one, we I've not just tools, maybe we say CCNR's as well as CCNR tools and CCN Rs and then we put 00:27:42
increased focus on occupancy, but let's additionally add education on legislation surrounding occupancy and parking. I think it 00:27:50
would be good for us to have that as one of our items. 00:27:58
Because the new legislation that came out that removed our ability to add additional parking and some requirements for things like 00:28:08
Adus. 00:28:12
Sounds like you have a home that has two different living units, yes? 00:28:47
And so you would have no more than 4 unrelated individuals in each one. When you, when you do dig into the HOA rules for most of 00:28:50
the HOA's in the city, because they all were based on the same template. You have the same developer that did a lot of the 00:28:57
communities. They have a restriction that you cannot have bedroom by bedroom rentals unless the owner of the unit lives in the 00:29:04
unit. And so there are places in the city where we see. 00:29:11
That if the owner lives there, you can legally have. 00:29:18
More people occupying the unit where if the owner doesn't live there then you're limited and you can't have bedroom by bedroom 00:29:23
rentals. 00:29:27
Thank you. 00:29:32
So just like Morgan's benefit, so as part of the good landlord program in Salt Lake City, they have like the highest visa state at 00:29:38
$350.00 to kind of to be registered and they waived 90% of it. It will drop down to $35. If as a landlord you go through like a 2 00:29:45
hour training session where they talk about all the the education you want and they talk about the enforcement that could come. 00:29:52
And that like almost everybody does that because it's a huge discount and that way they get educated. It's a good idea. 00:29:59
Yeah, we've thrown that into our research for the landlord program. 00:30:06
Come up to the microphone and just start stating ideas and solutions and what you want to see. 00:30:11
As so many of these we know, but it's great to have it here in this discussion so we can say where we are or add it to our list. 00:30:17
I'm in lakefront. 00:30:25
And I'm sorry, Kimberly Olsen from Lakefront and and. 00:30:28
As a person who. 00:30:34
Doesn't have more cars that are allotted to me. 00:30:37
Umm, what's happening is the over occupancy is like I can't have visitors like I, I bought my home. I have my so I have, you know, 00:30:40
I can have two people and they park in my driveway, but there's no visitor parking anymore because. 00:30:47
All of these enforcements and enactments and so. 00:30:54
Kind of like, well crap, I purchased and now I can't even have people come to my house because there's no Rd. parking. Well then 00:30:58
there's a couple issues that were attempted to be remedied and. 00:31:04
OK, I am telling you what I've been told. So if it's a misstatement that I was told that, I apologize. So go ahead and correct me. 00:31:12
There were some extra spots painted like on the roads and we have super, super, super thin roads, right? 00:31:20
And So what happened is week one of those spots being painted, my garbage wasn't picked up because we I'm not on a through street. 00:31:28
So we have to put garbage can on one side and we have to put recycling on the other side. So I didn't get garbage pickup. Now 00:31:35
bless Fred. He literally came and manually emptied the garbage can and then they went and they painted over it. And so there were 00:31:42
some spots that they tried to make available, but because of the design of the neighborhood itself. 00:31:48
We were able to do that because of garbage pickup, so then that limited spot. 00:31:56
So it's not like a we don't want to do it. It's a we can't and get garbage pickup, right and then. 00:32:01
The other thing that kept happening was that technicality, the owner lives there and I have two neighbors that the owner lives 00:32:09
there and then they have 4 bedrooms and then they finish their basement and. 00:32:16
So there's five people in the house, but they're counting our townhomes as having four spots, which is 2 in the garage and then 00:32:24
two in the driveway, right? 00:32:30
Hey roommate, can you move your car 'cause I got to leave before you? What am I supposed to do? You know, I don't know what to 00:33:06
tell him so. 00:33:09
I did hear in a previous meeting that. 00:33:13
I believe it was Christy Wells who said this because it was last year. She had noted that the that part of the problem in 00:33:16
Lakefront was that they were counting spots that blocked other spots of parking and as a result of that and the problem that 00:33:23
caused, they were not allowing that in the Forge and Utah City. Is that correct? Morgan and Cassidy did change that, didn't we? 00:33:29
We have to read the research that. 00:33:41
Yeah. So we've talked about it. I don't remember specifically if it was put forward, but we've discussed that as something in the 00:33:45
future we don't want to approve. Go ahead and put it on our list and we can research it additionally. 00:33:53
Allowed tenant to tenant and owner donor so that I know that that that was put in the code. 00:34:02
But as far as the forge in the Utah City code, we can pull that up. Have we have we reduced green space for them, those limits for 00:34:09
like? 00:34:14
What is it called? The medians between sidewalks and parking lots? 00:34:21
Park sets. 00:34:27
Let's go ahead and put that in there too. We've done it for other Hoas, so let's talk about green space reductions for grass 00:34:29
that's wasted. 00:34:34
That's actually if there was a redesign thread or was that that's where you would make up some of the space if you add in more 00:34:40
parking would be park stripes. OK, let's add that on the list. 00:34:45
OK, thank you. I just wanted to make sure that that was still a thing that's not going to happen because for us directly it will 00:34:51
compound our issue if Utah City then can we'll be purchasing some of our passes that we clearly what we assigned. And then the 00:34:57
other thing I came in and I brought up when this thing was passed was. 00:35:04
And I don't, I'm not assuming that that was the intention, but I, I feel like, and Jacob can correct m