Meeting: City Council Regular Meeting

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Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at00 PM. Councilmember Sifuentes gave the invocation and led the Pledge of Allegiance. PRESENTATIONS/RECOGNITIONS/AWARDS/PROCLAMATIONS No items were submitted. WORK SESSION No items were submitted. PUBLICCOMMENTS
Mayor Fullmer called for public comments.
Karen Cornelious, living in the Villas Subdivision, asked about the independent auditor on the agenda.
Kathleen Clawson, living in the Parkside subdivision, mentioned that she appreciated the Peter Rabbit story on the trails and would like to see more stories.
Mayor Fullmer called for additional comments. Hearing none, she closed the public comment session. She noted that independent auditor discussion was on the agenda and any questions would be answered then. MAYORANDCOUNCILMEMBERS'REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS
Councilmember Sifuentes reported that ballots were in the mail for the25 Primary Election and asked that residents take the time to research the candidates.
Councilmember Holdaway reported that he was grateful for the state laws on GRAMA and the current records request. He requested that council enforce compliance. A discussion ensued. City Attorney Jayme Blakesley explained the request and the responsive documents and conversations with the State Records Ombudsman. The discussion continued. Councilmember Holdaway stated that he had not recorded any interviews with the reporters but recorded them with city staff. Mayor Fullmer requested that the council review the records discussed and make a determination if needed. STAFF,COMMISSION, ANDCOMMITTEE REPORTS CONSENT ITEMS1. Approvalof theJuly2025, CityCouncil Meeting Minutes2. InterlocalAgreementwithUtahCountyforLibraryServices(Resolution2025-)3. InterlocalCooperativeAgreementwithUtahCountyforSubstanceMisuse preventionandCommunitiesthatCare(CTC)ModelforFY26(Resolution2025-)
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion.
Councilmember Sifuentes disclosed that with her job with Utah County in Human Services, she works with the department that works with CTC.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ADOPT AND APPROVE THE CONSENT ITEMS AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR (4) TO ONE (1). APPOINTMENTS/REMOVALS No names were submitted. BUSINESSITEMS1. PUBLICHEARING-AdoptionoftheWorkingFiscalYear2025-2026Budget After Amendment #1(Resolution25-40) FY26 Budget Amendment#1
Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Councilmember Clawson.
Councilmember Clawson explained that the budget amendment was due to the scrutiny and accusations over the city’s finances and the clear path forward was to obtain a fully independent evaluation through a third-party auditor to look for fraud, waste and abuse. He stated that the purpose was not to Audit the State’s Audit. He stated that there was no intention of revising the audit but looking for areas where they might be able to improve as a city. He explained what the audit would entail and the reason for the cost and the desire to pick a firm who was fully independent.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to open the public hearing.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT25 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
David Lauret, living on Holdaway Road, asked about the definitions used and criteria for determining the auditor.
Ms. Cornelious asked about the cost of the audit. She asked how they were able to find the money when they had to raise taxes last year. She felt that the council was not being the best stewards of taxpayers’ dollars.
Mayor Fullmer called for additional public comments. Hearing none, she called for a motion to close the public hearing.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT29 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer called for a discussion from the council.
Councilmember Clawson said that public trust was low, and they need to take steps to repair that trust, which did not come for free.
Councilmember Holdaway said that he did not feel good about supporting an independent audit. There was a discussion about the state audit process. Mayor Fullmer clarified that the Auditor required the mayor to sign the letter, which included the responses from the team working it. Councilmember Holdaway stated that he did not understand the scope of the independent audit and felt that he was getting conflicting information. He commented on waste and abuse and how that was defined. Councilmember Cameron asked him to get to the point. Councilmember Holdaway continued his comments.
Councilmember Clawson clarified the process and how they determined the scope to be included in the “request for proposal” document. For the record, he read an email that went out on Julyth: “the purpose of the initiative was to proactively: Identify any anomalies related to fraud, waste, or abuse; Identify any vulnerabilities in our policies and operations; Recommend changes to build public trust and ensure government accountability to the highest standards.” The purpose for the email was to express to the entire council and the finance committee what they thought the scope should be and to gather input on what they thought it should look like. He said that he received an email between Councilmember Holdaway and Seth Oveson from the State Auditor’s office which prompted him to contact Mr. Oveson for clarification. He received confirmation today that what they were doing was accurate and shared those notes with the council. He felt that the effort was there to be open and transparent on what they were trying to do and that the RFP was well defined. He believed that it left room for the independent firm to recommend changes. He felt that this was a big deal in order to regain public trust.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated that she did not want to have to spend $104,000. From her perspective she believed that with everything that Councilmember Holdaway had been pushing for a state audit and they would be pleased if the city were taking care of their own problems. She felt that Councilmember Holdaway’s concerns about having corruption in the finances then they needed to find it. She added the state gave them advice for things they could do for policy changes.
Councilmember Cameron commented that Councilmember Holdaway expressed frustrations because he was not invited to the meetings, but she did not get an invitation to meet with Mr. Oveson, the State Auditor’s Office, or the newspapers to give a different side of the story. She felt Councilmember Holdaway needed to look at his own behavior if he wanted everything to be fair and balanced. She stated that a lot of Councilmember Holdaway’s accusations of corruption were not founded and that his concerns with the previous council’s transparency was not accurate. She said that everyone agreed that they wanted the city run well and have transparency. She had a conversation with Councilmember Tyce Flake, which was eye opening, and validated what she had seen in the past year and half. She said that she was frustrated with Councilmember Holdaway’s misrepresentation of the people and the city. Councilmember Holdaway for clarification on a councilmember adding items to an agenda. Mayor Fullmer clarified that he was interrupting and turned the time back to Councilmember Cameron. Councilmember Sifuentes requested that Mr. Blakesly clarify Titlein the municipal code and noted that she worked to change the amount of councilmembers need to get something on the agenda. Councilmember Cameron mentioned two things that she had asked Councilmember Holdaway to correct the record: Bella Lash and Mercedes. Bella Lash was a utility refund, and he did not correct the record. A discussion ensued. The mayor brought the meeting back to order. Councilmember Cameron explained that the Mercedes was the purchase of a used dump truck to be fiscally conservative and felt that Councilmember Holdaway was doing a disservice to the community by not correcting the record.
Mayor Fullmer responded to the question on where they found the finances and why they had done this. For the record: “The time they had with the state auditor had closed and they wanted to take what they had given them and implement a process so that if they came back to the city in six months, they would see that the city had taken their suggestions seriously.” She explained that at the last City Council meeting she had suggested that the city look into their policies, best practices, and finances. She felt that taking money from the city’s reserves would be a return on their investment and ensuring money was being spent fiscally. She explained that last year was the first time they had raised taxes in years to recover the cost of inflation. She explained the need for the raise in taxes. She felt it was important to recognize that every time we have to look into these accusations it costs a lot of staff time. A $104,000 is not a lot in comparison to what we have been spending on these discussions. The investment was worth it to let the residents know that their taxpayer dollars were being spent in an efficient way. She mentioned the article in the Daily Herald that Councilmember Holdaway had referred to earlier stating that they were changing away from an independent audit, which they were not doing. She felt it was important to review the email discussed earlier. She said that sometimes the news reports things in a way that the city needs to clarify. She said that there was a document that explained how they were responding to the auditor’s findings. She said that on theh they talked about how all of this was going to be managed. She said that because Councilmember Clawson was the council liaison on their finances, along with Councilmember Cameron, he was going to lead the committee choosing an independent auditor. She mentioned the process they were going through and how they were being transparent.
Mr. Ellis explained that fraud, waste, and abuse were defined in the generally accepted accounting procedures and that an outside accounting firm would use those definitions. The letter that was submitted to the State Auditor was that as a city council, they were a political subdivision ff the state, granted a great deal of autonomy to create your own bylaws and operate as a municipality. The more they rely on outside entities it could have an eroding effect on the value of the council working as a body. He said that if the city council wanted to arrange for an independent audit, they were in their realm to do that.
Mayor Fullmer felt it would be meaningful to the residents that they could search for the things that all of the representative brought to the table and determine what they wanted to review and being transparent. She further explained that they had to be thoughtful of creating quorums.
Mr. Blakesley reviewed the amendment to Municipal Code Title allowing any two councilmembers to request to place an item on the agenda. A discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer called for further comments.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked if they could wait to approve the budget amendment until they had the proposals. A discussion ensued. Councilmember Holdaway suggested the council sit down with the state auditor and get clarification on the audit. The discussion continued. Mr. Blakesly suggested they read the scope in the RFP. He noted that they had heard complaints over the last few years over how the city manages its finances and the rumors persist because there had not been an independent review. He noted that there were protocols and procedures established nationally. He read the deliverables listed in the RFP and items they would look at. He stated that he was baffled by Councilmember Holdaway complaining about these items and then complaining about having an independent auditor. A heated discussion ensued. Councilmember Holdaway admitted he mistakenly blurted out a Bella Lash comment to a small group that did not end up being true. He said that when they first looked at the ledger, there were several items he had concerns about, of which Bella Lash and the Mercedes were part of.
Mayor Fullmer asked council to move the meeting forward.
Mr. Ellis explained that it was a common practice to have a budget amount approved for an item and he felt they should approve the budget tonight, and a decision would come to the council later for the specific amount and firm. A discussion ensued.Mayor Fullmer clarified that they would be putting saving aside for a future possibility; they were not spending any funds yet. She explained how the scope of work was done and that Councilmember Clawson and Councilmember Cameron were working together to create the RFP. Mr. Blakesley clarified that the RFP had been put out today. Mr. Ellis clarified that the RFP was sent to the council for comments before the RFP was published. There was a discussion about the RFP.
Mayor Fullmer clarified that they were saving money and that the RFP was out. She suggested that people email Councilmember Clawson and Councilmember Cameron with comments. She then called for a motion to adopt the change.
Motion:COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON MOVED TO ADOPT RESOLUTION25-40 THE VINEYARD CITY FISCAL YEAR25 –26 BUDGET AMENDMENT #1 AS PRESENTED BY STAFF. COUNCILMEMBER CAMREON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR (4) TO ONE (1). 2. DISCUSSIONANDACTION-AuthorizingBidAwardfora3rdPartyAuditor (Resolution25-41) Adoptingaresolutionallowingthecitymanagertoawardthewinningbidtoathird- party auditor once the committee has made their selection.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to strike this item from the agenda to give council time to review the RFP responses and then award the bid.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON MOVED TO STRIKE ITEM2 DISCUSSIONANDACTION-AUTHORIZINGBIDAWARDFORA3RDPARTYAUDITOR (RESOLUTION25-41) FROM THE AGENDA. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. . CLOSEDSESSION No closed session was held. . ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Fullmer adjourned the meeting at34 PM. MINUTES APPROVED ON: 13/2025 CERTIFIED CORRECT BY: Pamela Spencer, CIty Recorder

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Transcript

Event transcript
	All right, Marty.	00:00:02
	As a reminder.	00:00:08
	You're starting.	00:00:09
	All right, today is July 23rd, 2025.	00:00:11
	The time is 6:00 PM and we're going to go ahead and start a regular City Council meeting.	00:00:15
	We're going to start out with an invocation and.	00:00:20
	Public reasons by Councilmember Fuentes.	00:00:22
	Our dear crying Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. You were.	00:00:27
	Grateful for this wonderful community we live in.	00:00:31
	Please put a special blessing over all those who are struggling.	00:00:35
	We suppose our families in need.	00:00:38
	That they can find the connection and supports that they need.	00:00:40
	Please bless us to be.	00:00:44
	Good advocates for our community and represent well and.	00:00:46
	Good communication and collaboration as a council.	00:00:50
	So grateful for our staff and all the hard work they do, our community, for all the wonderful involvement. We see these things in	00:00:52
	the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. All right.	00:00:56
	Of the United States of America.	00:01:06
	Stands one nation under God.	00:01:11
	I.	00:01:16
	All right, we're going to go ahead and open up our public comments. This is a time for you to address.	00:01:20
	Things with the Council that are not on the agenda, if you would like to speak.	00:01:25
	Please come up and state your name.	00:01:29
	And where you're from and Pam will set a timer of two minutes for you and you can.	00:01:31
	So, your thoughts?	00:01:37
	OK, seeing as there are no comments, I'm going to go ahead and close.	00:01:44
	Oh, it's a skating. We have some people. Come on.	00:01:48
	Unfortunately, I might get kicked out of it.	00:02:00
	Cornelius.	00:02:02
	I just I was out of town.	00:02:04
	So I'm just.	00:02:08
	Perplexed.	00:02:10
	And confused.	00:02:12
	So my question is, are we?	00:02:13
	Hiring an auditor to.	00:02:16
	Audit the auditor.	00:02:18
	And I know it's on the agenda, but.	00:02:21
	In the question in that way and I just.	00:02:24
	Whoa. And how independent is it?	00:02:27
	Is that hiring process?	00:02:31
	When there was number community involved in that, or at least what I can find out, there was number community involved, it was.	00:02:34
	It was.	00:02:40
	Sharing it.	00:02:42
	Apparently that it was.	00:02:43
	Only the Council that was involved in that. So those are just my questions because it was just.	00:02:45
	I'm a little fabricated.	00:02:50
	To see that we're.	00:02:52
	Hiring an auditor.	00:02:54
	To audit the auditor.	00:02:55
	And that is being done supposedly for.	00:02:57
	Purportedly.	00:03:01
	Independently.	00:03:02
	But it doesn't seem that the hiring or the RFP has been independent so.	00:03:05
	I hope I made sense. Thanks.	00:03:09
	All right. Thanks for your.	00:03:13
	This is my first time.	00:03:18
	I'm Kathleen Klassen from Parkside, and I just wanted to say thank you to the city because a couple weeks ago.	00:03:20
	As I walk around the neighborhood.	00:03:26
	Which I don't remember the name of the neighborhood, but I call it the Barky Dogs, which is just right here that pack.	00:03:28
	And I noticed this. Cute.	00:03:35
	Peter Rabbit story as you progress either direction.	00:03:37
	And I loved it.	00:03:42
	And I thought, what a lovely touch. And I'm not sure exactly which organization within the city did it.	00:03:44
	But I just want to share my.	00:03:49
	Gratitude. It was kind of fun.	00:03:51
	And if I had my nieces and nephews.	00:03:53
	That would be so much fun to read.	00:03:55
	The story of Peter Rabbit as we continued on that.	00:03:57
	And I would love it if we could see more of that. I think that would be great.	00:04:00
	No, you're fine.	00:04:04
	Thank you.	00:04:07
	Any other comments?	00:04:09
	All right, we're going to go ahead and click.	00:04:11
	Our public comments.	00:04:13
	Thank you for your comments, Kathleen and Karen. It looks like your topic of discussion is on the agenda, so we'll address it	00:04:15
	then.	00:04:18
	We'll move on to mayor and council member reports.	00:04:23
	This is we're going to take 3 minutes each.	00:04:27
	And just give brief updates so we can keep moving through our meet our minutes.	00:04:30
	Our meeting? Excuse me.	00:04:35
	If anybody has anything that you would like to share in 3 minutes.	00:04:37
	Please.	00:04:42
	Go ahead and send.	00:04:43
	I'm just going to share if I can go first.	00:04:44
	Ballots dropped. I got my ballot today in the mail and I just hope everyone.	00:04:47
	Takes the time to research the candidates and vote.	00:04:51
	So, umm.	00:04:55
	It's really exciting.	00:04:56
	We have 8 candidates and they have all been.	00:04:57
	Working on her. Awesome thank you.	00:05:00
	Anyone else?	00:05:04
	OK.	00:05:07
	OK, go ahead, Jake.	00:05:08
	I am grateful for the state laws of grammar.	00:05:12
	And the ability to comply with that.	00:05:17
	I recently have been grammar.	00:05:21
	Grammar. How do you say that?	00:05:24
	By a citizen I usually don't agree with.	00:05:28
	But I spent a lot of time compiling all of the text messages.	00:05:31
	That I have had between the New York Times and the Salt Lake Tribune.	00:05:35
	And the.	00:05:39
	Contents of those.	00:05:41
	Are directed towards.	00:05:43
	The three individuals that are responsible for doing the grammar.	00:05:45
	Namely, our city manager.	00:05:49
	City attorney and clerk.	00:05:51
	Under state law and statute.	00:05:54
	They are responsible.	00:05:57
	To oversee that process.	00:05:58
	And I believe that there's a conflict of interest.	00:06:01
	I don't know how to oversee that process.	00:06:04
	But on June, over a month ago, when it was supposed to be fulfilled.	00:06:07
	It has not.	00:06:11
	I reached out to the state of Ombudsman.	00:06:12
	And I know we're going through disagreements on.	00:06:15
	If they can be shared in PDF.	00:06:18
	Version or.	00:06:20
	Compiled or not compiled?	00:06:24
	Regardless, they're all there, and I spoke with Monica again after.	00:06:26
	The e-mail exchange about an hour ago.	00:06:31
	But I would like the Council to take steps.	00:06:34
	To helping.	00:06:37
	Get that published so that I am in compliance with.	00:06:39
	Getting those documents.	00:06:44
	Placed so I don't know how to overcome that, but I think that the Council should be aware and disclosed of that effort.	00:06:45
	I don't know how to overcome that because it doesn't.	00:06:52
	In speaking with the state, there is no statute.	00:06:54
	On conflicts of interest.	00:06:57
	So I'm not sure 100% what you're asking. You want what you want to do.	00:07:02
	I don't know either.	00:07:06
	I'm these should have.	00:07:07
	Compiled all of the text messages and PowerPoints.	00:07:10
	Two or three PowerPoints and text messages between me and Leah Larson of the Salt Lake Tribune.	00:07:14
	They were intermingled.	00:07:19
	You know, chronologically, if you could imagine over a year's time.	00:07:22
	There's a text message with everything.	00:07:26
	So I just took screenshots.	00:07:29
	It's really hard actually. I wish.	00:07:31
	Apple would make it so much easier. You just download and.	00:07:33
	You have to take screenshots and.	00:07:37
	100 it's over 100 pages.	00:07:39
	So umm, you grab one and you're like, did I send this one or not? So you're like.	00:07:42
	OK, I have this one and then you have the next and you.	00:07:48
	I mistakenly did an ad.	00:07:51
	The line like the line showing the next line.	00:07:54
	So I had to go back and add.	00:07:57
	Like duplicate it so that this one. So that's ending here.	00:07:59
	Adding there so you can see.	00:08:04
	It's in its entirety, so I submitted that over.	00:08:06
	But it was organized in a way that.	00:08:09
	We had these text messages. Oh.	00:08:12
	And then we hit the PowerPoint. So I had the PowerPoint.	00:08:15
	And then chronologically, OK, then we have these text messages and then the PowerPoint.	00:08:17
	And we are.	00:08:22
	Debating on.	00:08:22
	Can this be sent over in one file?	00:08:24
	Or can it be?	00:08:28
	Can the headers of the PowerPoint be included on it or not?	00:08:31
	And I'm like I can't change the PowerPoints that I shared with via Zoom, I can just.	00:08:35
	Give you what the PowerPoint is.	00:08:40
	And so I I.	00:08:43
	I spoke with the state and they're like, you can't alter state law, you can't alter the PowerPoints, you know the documents if	00:08:44
	that's what you provided.	00:08:48
	And so today I.	00:08:52
	I uh.	00:08:54
	Separated the PowerPoints, so these are the PowerPoints.	00:08:56
	And these are the.	00:08:59
	Umm, text messages.	00:09:02
	So I think we've resolved everything now.	00:09:05
	But I just want to make I just we are one month over.	00:09:07
	The time frame and I got on the phone after I got.	00:09:11
	Tony's e-mail and I said oh, and they said.	00:09:14
	Well, we yeah, it's very customary to get sent over on one file and I've broken it down and not compiled it.	00:09:18
	As they requested. I just think that because.	00:09:24
	Of the focus.	00:09:28
	The three people that are conducting the grammar are the ones.	00:09:29
	Putting the rules so it's like.	00:09:34
	Do we get in an outside city? Do we contact dorm like when there's a?	00:09:36
	Firing of a.	00:09:39
	You know, police officer, they don't conduct the.	00:09:41
	Investigation themselves, they contact an outside.	00:09:43
	Government entity to do that.	00:09:47
	So do we reach out to Linden and say hey?	00:09:48
	We have a crazy.	00:09:52
	Situation here.	00:09:53
	Umm, so.	00:09:56
	Yeah, because the contacts are not.	00:09:58
	Great on all three officers.	00:09:59
	In my opinion.	00:10:02
	Let me provide a little bit of context.	00:10:08
	And then I can answer.	00:10:10
	Councilmember Holdaway's question directly and then I think there's.	00:10:12
	Probably.	00:10:16
	Something for the Council to intervene, or two.	00:10:17
	Act on this not during the meeting today, because it's not on the agenda, but.	00:10:21
	At a future meeting.	00:10:25
	The grandma request is from a citizen or resident of the city. It requests the individual requested.	00:10:27
	Records.	00:10:35
	Of communication between Councilmember Holdaway and.	00:10:36
	A reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune and from the New York Times.	00:10:40
	There were some records provided by council member Holdaway.	00:10:44
	That appeared to have.	00:10:48
	Editorialized comments. He's clarified that that was a.	00:10:51
	PowerPoint presentation or something similar that he shared with the reporter and so.	00:10:55
	If you've separated that out and provided it.	00:11:00
	There were.	00:11:03
	Initially provided some text messages, but it wasn't clear whether it was the entire conversation and so Tony had asked.	00:11:04
	Council member Holdaway to put.	00:11:12
	Usually when we gather text messages, what we'll do is take a screenshot and then you include on the next screen shot.	00:11:14
	The message from the one prior so that you can see the string.	00:11:20
	Carry through. I know it's a complete record.	00:11:25
	I think they may still be waiting on the e-mail.	00:11:27
	Communication between you and.	00:11:30
	The reporter so.	00:11:33
	Tony will follow up with you on that.	00:11:35
	The when we.	00:11:37
	When you indicated, you could call it the.	00:11:39
	The state records on both women.	00:11:42
	We phoned her to ask about that conversation.	00:11:44
	I'll simply say.	00:11:48
	Now for this meeting that.	00:11:49
	What you represented the meeting to be.	00:11:51
	For your communication with her to be and what?	00:11:53
	She told us it was.	00:11:56
	And so.	00:11:59
	There's a question mark there, but I don't know that that limits.	00:12:02
	The grammar response to your question about whether.	00:12:05
	I advise Pam and Tony.	00:12:09
	Pam and Tony are the records officers for the city. It's their responsibility.	00:12:11
	Respond to Grandma requests.	00:12:17
	And uh.	00:12:19
	My understanding is that they have responded to the resident with what they had at the time.	00:12:20
	And then indicated that they had reached out to you to ask for.	00:12:26
	The additional information that was missing.	00:12:30
	Now, there's a piece of this that you didn't mention that is a concern to me and it's that.	00:12:33
	When we normally get grammar requests for records.	00:12:38
	The practice of Pam and Tony is to sit down with the person from whom the records are requested.	00:12:43
	And then gather.	00:12:49
	The records with them.	00:12:51
	That way if they end up.	00:12:52
	Being before the state.	00:12:54
	Formerly the state records committee. Now it's a hearing officer.	00:12:56
	But if they're before a hearing officer and asked how did you conduct the search for the records?	00:12:59
	Then you have some redundancy in that search.	00:13:04
	We don't have that redundancy in the search you.	00:13:07
	Conducted it yourself so we have your word.	00:13:10
	That you've conducted a full and complete search and nothing more.	00:13:13
	From my vantage.	00:13:17
	Pam and Tony have simply been.	00:13:19
	We're trying to work with you to get the complete record and it's been difficult.	00:13:21
	To get that.	00:13:26
	So in every grandma that I've ever done with this city and I verified this with the employees like.	00:13:27
	Take my card or Chris Todd or.	00:13:34
	Umm, or George?	00:13:37
	Pam never sat down with him ever to get the record when they did the hearing with.	00:13:40
	Sean Herring And that's on the record.	00:13:44
	In the state hearings.	00:13:47
	So that has never happened before as a precedent.	00:13:48
	#2.	00:13:52
	All of the problems that you're describing on.	00:13:53
	The text messages were solved.	00:13:56
	Back in the time frame.	00:13:59
	That we should have now not.	00:14:02
	Disparaging any elected official and.	00:14:04
	Saying that the three individuals are.	00:14:08
	Delaying purposely. What I'm saying is, is that.	00:14:11
	If over the last six weeks it was disclosed that the three individuals that the.	00:14:16
	Purpose is are over this.	00:14:21
	And we're going back and forth and it's not an independent thing.	00:14:23
	Person that the taste doesn't go.	00:14:27
	They would need to disclose so that's why I was bringing it to the.	00:14:30
	Body here.	00:14:32
	On the additional record there was.	00:14:35
	A claim that I.	00:14:38
	Record my.	00:14:40
	Interviews with The Salt Lake Tribune or New York Times.	00:14:42
	Which I've never recorded any zoom meetings with them. I do record my meetings with city staff.	00:14:45
	And with.	00:14:51
	I think I've disclosed the reasons why.	00:14:53
	But with a reporter, I haven't and.	00:14:55
	I don't know why that accusations made or just.	00:14:57
	So I think you're confusing a question about.	00:15:00
	The existence of records with an accusation.	00:15:04
	Tony was asking. Did you?	00:15:06
	Record those meetings and if so.	00:15:09
	Then we would have an obligation to provide those.	00:15:11
	Right, don't understand yet, but.	00:15:14
	But again, it's you you hadn't until.	00:15:16
	Right now, this moment.	00:15:18
	Confirmed to him that there were no recordings and so yeah, I've emailed him back that there isn't but like.	00:15:20
	If he had that.	00:15:26
	Question six weeks ago to fulfill at the time they should have asked that.	00:15:27
	Question if I had a recording right so.	00:15:31
	But they didn't. It was.	00:15:35
	An hour ago.	00:15:36
	And what I'm saying is it just keeps delaying.	00:15:37
	And it gets to a point where it's like, I know this isn't great information to get out there, but.	00:15:41
	If someone is requesting of assistance, then yeah.	00:15:45
	It I know it doesn't.	00:15:48
	And I've been pushing.	00:15:50
	Like guys, this has to get out so.	00:15:52
	I I don't think that's an accurate characterization. I'll just note that, but.	00:15:56
	I don't know that it benefits anybody that.	00:16:01
	Talk about that art.	00:16:03
	Pam and Tony's communication to you has been in writing.	00:16:05
	And so there's an e-mail record of that exchange and people can.	00:16:08
	What they?	00:16:12
	They did respond to the request.	00:16:14
	I would like the information that was available at that time.	00:16:17
	I did see an e-mail come through from you just minutes before this meeting.	00:16:21
	With the.	00:16:25
	Text messages that Tony has been asking you for.	00:16:26
	I don't believe he had them in that format until that time.	00:16:30
	So yeah, I split them up, I mean.	00:16:33
	Pardon me, I'm not finished, OK? He asked me before this meeting.	00:16:35
	What he should do with the additional information you.	00:16:39
	Provided and.	00:16:42
	My instructions to him were to go through it like you, wouldn't he?	00:16:44
	Records requests see if there's private or protected or.	00:16:48
	Controlled information in the record.	00:16:52
	I don't heal.	00:16:54
	He'll need to do that over the next day or two and then.	00:16:55
	He can supplement.	00:16:58
	The response with.	00:16:59
	What you provided today.	00:17:00
	I would just say that if there's a disagreement.	00:17:02
	I would like the.	00:17:05
	The body here to say who is the independent arbiter since the state ombudsman? Monica offered.	00:17:08
	And we've had.	00:17:14
	Disagreements of.	00:17:15
	What's happened in that conversation or not? Because I called Monica right after and I said.	00:17:17
	This is what we talked about.	00:17:21
	And she confirmed again, yeah, that's.	00:17:23
	That's it, there's.	00:17:25
	We don't need to.	00:17:27
	There's no state code saying that we need to.	00:17:29
	Break them up into two files. You just have to provide everything.	00:17:31
	And so I actually went above and beyond and provided them in.	00:17:35
	In chronological order.	00:17:38
	Which I don't really have to, but.	00:17:42
	But anyway, I just think that if there is a disagreement we schedule a meeting and I don't mind a threat or anyone else.	00:17:44
	Someone an independent?	00:17:50
	And the state ombudsman?	00:17:52
	Could help facilitate so we get these records out to the citizens that want them.	00:17:55
	And again, Tony and Pam have communicated with you in writing on this. There hasn't been phone calls. The reason they didn't do it	00:17:59
	in phone calls was so nobody could twist words.	00:18:04
	Right, they can.	00:18:08
	Put together that communication provided to the Council, I think it would be good for the Council to see.	00:18:10
	And in our conversation with the State record ombudsman, she was unequivocal.	00:18:14
	That it is the records officer.	00:18:20
	That has the obligation to gather records.	00:18:23
	And to establish.	00:18:26
	Protocols for how they gather records.	00:18:28
	And that falls on Pam's shoulders.	00:18:31
	And she and Tony were very clear.	00:18:34
	From my advantage in their communication to you of what they were asking for and looking for. And it wasn't in the form of an	00:18:36
	accusation at all. It was.	00:18:40
	Do you have this type of record if?	00:18:44
	So provided in that format.	00:18:46
	Print it and that was it.	00:18:49
	And it was the.	00:18:51
	Difficult to get that information from you and.	00:18:53
	The Council is welcome to look at that.	00:18:56
	As for whether Monica should intervene for Pam and her duty?	00:18:59
	Monica was really clear with us that that wasn't her role, that it was Pam's role as directors officer and that.	00:19:04
	She's in her position.	00:19:10
	When?	00:19:12
	Appeals and then mediations that relate to appeals and then she has a.	00:19:13
	Guidance function.	00:19:18
	And a policy function, but.	00:19:19
	Her function is not.	00:19:22
	To substitute her judgment for that of the records officer, and that was her communication to us.	00:19:24
	So I think what we should do here then is we'll receive the records that you mentioned for the Council.	00:19:29
	Then we'll review your request, Jake.	00:19:35
	And then we can have this discussion.	00:19:37
	Further and decide if there's something that the body can intervene on.	00:19:40
	Brett or Marty?	00:19:44
	Marty, you already went right. Brett or Sarah, was there anything else that you wanted to add before I move on to the next?	00:19:46
	Item.	00:19:54
	My comments are on the agenda, so unless you want me to do this now, I.	00:19:54
	No, Sarah, did you have anything?	00:19:58
	OK, we're going to move on to the.	00:20:05
	Consent agenda. I need a motion.	00:20:07
	I just need to make a disclosure.	00:20:09
	OK, umm.	00:20:11
	With seven point.	00:20:12
	Three, I just want to disclose that.	00:20:15
	With my job at the county and Human Services.	00:20:18
	I don't directly work with communities that care, but I work with.	00:20:21
	Department. The department that does.	00:20:24
	I just needed to make that public knowledge. I don't think there's any conflict with me voting it in. It's a really cool program.	00:20:26
	Yeah, I don't. I don't.	00:20:33
	Think so, Jamie, is there anything?	00:20:35
	No, no recusals required.	00:20:38
	She just wanted to make that disclosure so it was clear to everybody what her.	00:20:40
	Professional law was OK, there's no conflict under this.	00:20:44
	Thank you, Marty, for making that.	00:20:48
	With that I need a motion.	00:20:50
	I.	00:20:52
	And approve the consent items as presented.	00:20:54
	All right, can I get a second?	00:20:56
	Second. Second by Sarah, first by Marty.	00:20:59
	And.	00:21:03
	We'll do this by roll call.	00:21:04
	Jake No.	00:21:05
	I am Marty.	00:21:08
	Sarah.	00:21:10
	All right.	00:21:11
	We'll go ahead to our.	00:21:14
	Public hearing.	00:21:17
	This is item.	00:21:18
	9.1 where we'll be talking about.	00:21:19
	The adoption of the working fiscal year.	00:21:22
	20/25/2026.	00:21:25
	Budget after amendment.	00:21:27
	#1 Resolution 2025-40.	00:21:29
	And I'm actually going to have.	00:21:32
	Brett lead out on this since we.	00:21:34
	Tasked you with this effort.	00:21:36
	If you want to go ahead and start.	00:21:38
	Sure. So the the reason that we have the.	00:21:42
	The budget amendment coming in is that.	00:21:48
	Over the last.	00:21:51
	Year and a half.	00:21:53
	Two years the city's been under a lot, awful lot of scrutiny and accusation over.	00:21:54
	Over its finances.	00:22:02
	And in terms of?	00:22:04
	Fraud, waste and abuse.	00:22:07
	And the clear path forward.	00:22:08
	Through that.	00:22:11
	Is to obtain a fully independent evaluation.	00:22:12
	Of the city's finances from a third party auditor.	00:22:18
	Or or accounting firm.	00:22:21
	Who will look specifically for?	00:22:23
	Fraud. Waste of abuse.	00:22:26
	In umm to.	00:22:28
	I believe it's appropriate at this time to answer Karen's question.	00:22:32
	The purpose of this is.	00:22:36
	Not to audit the auditor.	00:22:39
	So the audit that was provided by the state previously.	00:22:40
	We intend to be fully compliant with.	00:22:44
	And in some of those items already are.	00:22:46
	There is no intention to try and revisit any of that.	00:22:50
	This is specifically to look for areas where.	00:22:54
	There might be fraud, waste and abuse.	00:22:59
	It is to.	00:23:01
	Get recommendations from a third party firm on.	00:23:03
	Policy where areas where we might be able to improve as a city.	00:23:06
	So the current feeling is that we will look for.	00:23:10
	Look at the last two years.	00:23:16
	And in those two years, we'll be looking at the.	00:23:18
	The policies in place and having the firm go through.	00:23:24
	Every transaction.	00:23:28
	According to the.	00:23:29
	Target areas.	00:23:31
	And they're, we're open to additional recommendations of areas to look at, but we've certainly covered all of the areas that	00:23:33
	Councilmember Holdaway has.	00:23:37
	Raised in the past.	00:23:42
	We want to make sure that we come out the other side of it.	00:23:43
	With there being no question.	00:23:46
	About uh.	00:23:48
	The the state of the city in terms of Broadway's and abuse.	00:23:49
	What that what that means in order to make sure that we have a fully independent.	00:23:53
	Audit is that.	00:24:00
	The the cost goes up a little bit because we have to find a, we have to put out an RFP.	00:24:02
	We have to allow for firms to respond to that.	00:24:07
	That.	00:24:11
	We need to select a firm that is above reproach.	00:24:14
	Right, we cannot allow.	00:24:17
	The the city or the council to select a firm?	00:24:20
	That someone could say, well, the city is biased to me.	00:24:23
	Confirm that they can bully. No, we have to.	00:24:26
	Somebody who is fully independent.	00:24:28
	And it is.	00:24:30
	Again above.	00:24:32
	So from from that perspective.	00:24:34
	That's where we are looking at.	00:24:37
	A budget amendment to allocate funds to do that.	00:24:39
	And then we also have an RFP.	00:24:43
	Which which again is included in the agenda packet.	00:24:47
	For for all to look at.	00:24:50
	And we will go through a full.	00:24:51
	Process in terms of selecting a firm for the.	00:24:54
	To conduct the.	00:24:58
	The Financial Review.	00:25:01
	All right. Are there any questions?	00:25:03
	Yes, let's open.	00:25:07
	Can I get a motion to open the public hearing?	00:25:09
	So moved, can I get a second?	00:25:15
	Second, all in favor?	00:25:18
	Aye.	00:25:20
	All right. Are there any questions from the public?	00:25:21
	Come on up.	00:25:24
	Our comments.	00:25:27
	I want to thank the Council for hearing me on this.	00:25:33
	David Larae.	00:25:37
	So my question has to do with the definitions of fraud, waste and abuse that you'll be using in the audit.	00:25:41
	Obviously, you know you.	00:25:48
	I think we have some. There's some general definitions, but specifically I'm sure you'll have some.	00:25:49
	Criteria and I was wondering if you would share those with us so we might be able to better understand the limits of the scope of.	00:25:54
	Review that you plan.	00:26:00
	Thank you.	00:26:01
	Thank you.	00:26:03
	Karen Cornell, Sevilla's.	00:26:22
	My question is.	00:26:24
	With respect to the $104,000?	00:26:26
	We sat here.	00:26:29
	About 13 or 14 months ago and went over the.	00:26:31
	To have a tax increase in the city of Vineyard because there was number room in the budget for anything.	00:26:35
	And the priority was that we could pay the firefighters, which?	00:26:42
	Is not a luxury.	00:26:46
	It really is.	00:26:47
	And I understand that.	00:26:49
	And we?	00:26:51
	Members of the council to look.	00:26:54
	With an eye.	00:26:56
	To anything that could be reduced, anything that could.	00:26:57
	We're gone so that we.	00:27:01
	Could have a kinder, gentler approach.	00:27:05
	With the citizens of Vineyard and not have to increase.	00:27:07
	Their taxes.	00:27:10
	Now I see that there's $104,000 out there.	00:27:12
	That we can access.	00:27:16
	For what may or may not.	00:27:18
	Seem to be pretended in some cases.	00:27:20
	But I'm just curious how we are always able to pull this money out.	00:27:23
	We pull money out for.	00:27:29
	Many of the settlements that we have to make behind closed doors because perhaps the contracts weren't fully.	00:27:30
	Fully vetted before or because the interests of this.	00:27:37
	The residence wasn't the priority, but the interests of the developer was.	00:27:41
	And I see that there's money there.	00:27:45
	But yet we had to put.	00:27:48
	So much on the back of the taxpayers.	00:27:50
	And just to.	00:27:52
	Oh, and I had two phone calls today from people from my neighborhood, and you know, my neighborhood is retired people.	00:27:54
	Who are very upset, not because a vineyard is raising their taxes again, but taxes are going up again.	00:28:02
	Because of two schools being built in the Alpine School District.	00:28:08
	And I feel like we are not.	00:28:11
	Being the greatest, best stewards.	00:28:14
	Or you are not being the best stewards.	00:28:17
	Of our taxpayer dollar.	00:28:19
	And I don't know where.	00:28:21
	I can look in the budget.	00:28:24
	To find these hidden $104,000 that we have.	00:28:25
	When somebody decides that we need it and so.	00:28:29
	It's just something that has been on my mind today because of the phone calls that I have gotten, so thank you.	00:28:32
	Are there any other?	00:28:49
	Comments.	00:28:50
	OK. I'm going to ask for a motion to close the public hearing.	00:28:53
	So moved. Thank you.	00:28:57
	Marty, can I get a second?	00:28:59
	Second. Second by.	00:29:02
	All in favor.	00:29:04
	Aye, aye.	00:29:05
	Any opposed?	00:29:08
	All right, let's go ahead and have.	00:29:10
	Our discussion, is there any clarity that you guys are looking for, any questions that you have?	00:29:13
	One other thought that I that I would add in.	00:29:21
	Why? Because I think there's a lot of questions about why.	00:29:24
	Is that we're in a state where.	00:29:28
	Trust is low.	00:29:30
	And so we need to find a way to.	00:29:32
	Repair that and improve it.	00:29:36
	And that doesn't come for free.	00:29:38
	I think the city and council members.	00:29:42
	Have done a lot of work.	00:29:44
	To try and repair.	00:29:46
	Trust.	00:29:48
	I think Councilman Holdaway has done a lot of work to try and repair trust. I think that.	00:29:49
	The audit that we got.	00:29:53
	Actually, uh.	00:29:55
	Sound things that are important, not just a vineyard, but to the entire state.	00:29:57
	And so these are all steps that we need to take to rebuild that trust and.	00:30:01
	It's a necessary thing that we have to do.	00:30:05
	In order to.	00:30:09
	Built that trust.	00:30:10
	Jake, do you have any comments?	00:30:14
	Yeah, umm.	00:30:16
	Let me start at the beginning.	00:30:18
	I like the olive branch that Brett has extended.	00:30:24
	And I appreciate his integrity.	00:30:28
	I felt like he's always been.	00:30:33
	A straight shooter.	00:30:35
	That's how you appreciate.	00:30:38
	I want to feel good about supporting an audit and I don't.	00:30:42
	For a variety of reasons.	00:30:46
	When the.	00:30:50
	State auditor came out.	00:30:52
	It lost a lot of trust that this body just couldn't and still hasn't at this point as a group.	00:30:56
	With the state auditor allowed them to come and.	00:31:02
	Have citizens witness.	00:31:04
	And and listen to that.	00:31:07
	Together, I think.	00:31:09
	Getting different versions out of the state auditor. I'm sorry, I don't understand. Can you clarify what you mean?	00:31:11
	When when we two weeks before the public audit came out, we were all invited if we had any questions, concerns or.	00:31:18
	To meet with them.	00:31:25
	That is usually done as a body, but also.	00:31:27
	Or it could be done as a body and it.	00:31:29
	Gained trust, especially if that's what we're trying to accomplish. Are you referring to the e-mail that went to the staff that	00:31:31
	work in the project that you guys were copied in on that tells them if you have anything to the state audit that told us two weeks	00:31:37
	before the state audit of their findings?	00:31:42
	And in there that was to staff and management, we were copied in.	00:31:49
	Yes.	00:31:52
	That was a letter just for clarity, so.	00:31:56
	For the discussion that you're having, that is a letter that.	00:32:00
	Goes to the team that's working on it and asks for.	00:32:04
	A response back from the team that was working on it by the time.	00:32:08
	And I think if it's to gain trust, meaning like.	00:32:12
	You would like 2 separate bodies, meaning probably my side of the Ledger and yours to do it together to.	00:32:15
	Gain common ground.	00:32:21
	You've got to do that together in a bipartisan.	00:32:23
	Way right and then I think.	00:32:27
	I'm sorry, I don't know what you're saying by bipartisan way.	00:32:29
	I think that you responding.	00:32:33
	To the findings by yourself instead of as an entire group.	00:32:35
	And actually listening together to the findings could have.	00:32:40
	Allowed us to get on the same page and vote.	00:32:44
	How we wanted to respond. I didn't vote you.	00:32:47
	We didn't respond back as a.	00:32:50
	Body you were used.	00:32:51
	You responded back by yourself.	00:32:53
	So from my recollection, just.	00:32:55
	So we can have this conversation.	00:32:57
	I think you were the first person to respond back. That said, you didn't have any comments back on it.	00:33:00
	Then I saw other council members respond back.	00:33:04
	Now, if you're referring to my sign.	00:33:07
	The auditor requires that.	00:33:09
	No, I, I, I was very clear e-mail with Eric and then the meeting with signs the letter and that is the letter that I was able to	00:33:11
	sign from the responses back from the team that worked on it as.	00:33:16
	If we continue to get different versions.	00:33:24
	David, Larry was in the meeting where we said are we going to get together? And he was very clear, Eric.	00:33:27
	That the mayor would be responding by by yourself.	00:33:32
	The body did that. That is public record and so it is available. The council can go back and right and what I'm saying is that	00:33:35
	like it.	00:33:38
	If we want to work as a body to restore trust, that citizens want us to see us working together.	00:33:42
	And I want to start to get to that.	00:33:49
	To that level, right? Like I'm.	00:33:52
	Not coming in to argue, I'm coming to find common ground.	00:33:54
	But even then, like.	00:33:58
	Because of that.	00:33:59
	The article in the.	00:34:01
	Daily Herald.	00:34:04
	Was that we are not going to hold the.	00:34:05
	TEC meetings that we're going to continue with the reports.	00:34:10
	I've now heard from the state auditor today that.	00:34:14
	Seth that you met?	00:34:16
	Set up and clear that up and said no, that that isn't true.	00:34:18
	So it kind of gives them echo.	00:34:22
	You know, like an echo response and it goes.	00:34:24
	OK, Eric said this, but then this actually happened.	00:34:26
	Right. And that that.	00:34:29
	And I want to make sure it's not Brett because I want to support the audit.	00:34:31
	Because I believe Brett is working in.	00:34:35
	Good faith.	00:34:37
	So that's the first thing is that.	00:34:38
	There's a few discrep.	00:34:39
	When I first heard the audit, I was like, OK, if it's going to be an independent audit.	00:34:42
	That's why I voted for it two weeks ago.	00:34:46
	I didn't really understand the scope.	00:34:48
	I've never done.	00:34:50
	And this type of audit with this creative detail, but I know that they are tasked to advise us this council, we can call it	00:34:51
	anytime.	00:34:54
	And so.	00:34:58
	My first thing was I would like to get in a meeting with.	00:35:00
	Brett and.	00:35:03
	Seth and the two of us just.	00:35:04
	This is what Brett's thinking this is.	00:35:07
	This is he's the head of it with Sarah.	00:35:09
	Walk me through.	00:35:12
	But talk about it.	00:35:14
	So I can just listen in and hear.	00:35:15
	And a day later I get a long e-mail from Eric as to we are not going to include the state auditor, it would be inappropriate and I	00:35:18
	can copy that entire e-mail.	00:35:22
	And it was.	00:35:28
	We're not going to include the state auditor in helping me.	00:35:29
	Like me, understand my role, we're going to deny.	00:35:32
	You know Friday, me and Brett can't get in there and.	00:35:35
	This is supposed to be an independent audit.	00:35:39
	Of our staff.	00:35:42
	And an e-mail on line 4 it says.	00:35:44
	For this reason, I agree and support the assignment recently given to Council Member Clawson to organize a City Council lead	00:35:49
	audit.	00:35:53
	Of the city's finances.	00:35:57
	And it was like.	00:35:59
	I thought this was an independent third party and so I.	00:36:01
	Sent an e-mail back and said if I can't meet with the state auditor with.	00:36:04
	I'm coming to the table to say.	00:36:08
	I want to work with you.	00:36:11
	And we can have that meeting on Friday, Then what? What's the scope?	00:36:13
	So then I didn't hear anything back.	00:36:17
	From that.	00:36:19
	Thursday or Wednesday?	00:36:20
	And then?	00:36:22
	I wasn't told about the scope or price.	00:36:23
	And obviously.	00:36:26
	I saw the meaning to this agenda and I saw the price tag for $104,000.	00:36:28
	So, umm.	00:36:35
	When I had spoken with the state auditor, it was like 10 to 20 grand of like.	00:36:38
	Ideas of what they thought they could do.	00:36:42
	Like different things.	00:36:44
	But again, it was.	00:36:45
	What I got from the meeting was that we were auditing the auditor.	00:36:48
	That's all I that's all I got.	00:36:52
	So.	00:36:54
	So when?	00:36:56
	So when?	00:36:58
	I literally a couple of hours ago.	00:37:00
	Who told you that we were auditing the auditor?	00:37:02
	I've never, I've never heard that.	00:37:05
	I took from the meeting on.	00:37:07
	The.	00:37:10
	The open council meeting that because we were audited, we needed to go in and look at what the auditor did.	00:37:11
	And see his fine see their findings.	00:37:17
	And understand it and get under it and I was like OK so.	00:37:20
	I don't even think that's accurate. I think all of us agreed.	00:37:24
	In their findings.	00:37:27
	And we voted.	00:37:28
	Together that we agreed with their findings and that we were going to implement what they suggested.	00:37:29
	So there.	00:37:34
	There was no argument.	00:37:35
	So what's the problem with allowing the state auditor to counsel with me and Brett, I think.	00:37:36
	I don't think they're. I don't think there is.	00:37:42
	There's not. Hold on. Let's let's let Jake finish and then and then I'll give each of you the time back so we don't have a back	00:37:43
	and forth. Rather you can.	00:37:48
	Why doesn't the Friday meeting happen?	00:37:52
	Are you done with your plans? They can respond back to starting like why?	00:37:56
	Why the?	00:38:00
	Why we can't?	00:38:01
	Why the long it?	00:38:03
	Changing this from an independent and removing.	00:38:05
	Our finance.	00:38:08
	You know, are because there's there's finance, there's city manager and there's attorneys. There's three things, right?	00:38:10
	So an independent would be removing these three things.	00:38:15
	And immediately when I say, OK, we're going to remove these three things, these three.	00:38:18
	Individuals or you know, we're gonna.	00:38:22
	Independently out of the city.	00:38:24
	I get an e-mail from one of those people saying.	00:38:25
	Do not.	00:38:28
	Do not do this and that we're influencing me us on how the audit is and I'm like.	00:38:29
	If you guys are going to be influencing it.	00:38:34
	Like I'm not gonna like, I would definitely get advice. I'd walk in there and go, hey.	00:38:37
	This looks like we're coming to the table the city is and we want to do an audit.	00:38:42
	You've already done an extensive.	00:38:46
	Brett has some ideas and let Brett talk to him and then.	00:38:49
	Hear their advice and we both come together and I go, hey, I see the parameters of what you're trying to do.	00:38:53
	And we give the price tag and we put out a kumbaya meeting.	00:38:58
	And then I, you know, and so I'm just getting conflicting.	00:39:02
	And I can tell you.	00:39:06
	You know David's in my meeting.	00:39:07
	If he's asleep right now so I don't know but.	00:39:09
	Umm, but like I.	00:39:12
	I didn't. When I met on Monday, Eric didn't tell me that the auditor was now.	00:39:13
	That you'd met with him alone.	00:39:18
	And I'm like.	00:39:20
	So then I called him today and I said OK, I've.	00:39:21
	What are we Should this cost 104,000?	00:39:23
	And he was like, well, what are they doing? And I'm like.	00:39:27
	Well, I don't really know what they're doing.	00:39:29
	I don't know the scope.	00:39:31
	And I was like.	00:39:32
	So I would like to.	00:39:35
	Mayor, can I just clarify?	00:39:37
	I'm gonna let him finish. I'm gonna give you a chance to clarify that something happened.	00:39:39
	When I'm not there.	00:39:44
	Right.	00:39:45
	What else do you have? Because then I'm going to pass the time so we can move through this.	00:39:48
	Because I just want to say like, I'm there to me.	00:39:52
	And I'm asking for a meeting and then it's like we can't have the meeting and then the meeting happens without me.	00:39:55
	You know, so it's like.	00:40:00
	But I don't think it's you back acting in bad faith.	00:40:01
	Because it's like.	00:40:04
	I don't know, it's just it's frustrating that I get conflicting.	00:40:06
	And information and I.	00:40:10
	I wish I would just.	00:40:12
	Hey, Jake, We'll still meet with the auditor. We'll.	00:40:13
	We'll walk through it. We're trying to.	00:40:15
	Because this is a very in depth thing.	00:40:17
	The second thing that I would say is and then to your point.	00:40:19
	We can. So in the National League of Cities, there's 36,000 cities in America.	00:40:22
	I get to go to that often.	00:40:28
	Every single time for 18 years.	00:40:29
	I get to go.	00:40:32
	When you see one city in America, you will hear the word.	00:40:33
	Waste and abuse.	00:40:37
	Like crazy because.	00:40:38
	Where on our side I will say.	00:40:41
	Survey software costs 1000 and.	00:40:43
	Others at 76.	00:40:45
	Others will say travel outside of the county or inside the county only.	00:40:47
	Others will say no, you can travel throughout the state.	00:40:51
	We're even like us. We can travel around the country, our department heads and so.	00:40:54
	That in this council is going to be defined differently, and that's totally OK. That's the American dream because every single	00:40:59
	city.	00:41:02
	Is completely different.	00:41:06
	If we're going to sit down and sit down somebody and say.	00:41:08
	You know, and we're elected.	00:41:11
	To define that, we get to define.	00:41:13
	What is waste?	00:41:15
	And what is abuse?	00:41:17
	US five define that.	00:41:19
	No one else.	00:41:20
	No state does. The state will never come in and tell us what.	00:41:22
	Or sorry, don't tell us what is fraud.	00:41:25
	It will never tell us what is waist.	00:41:27
	They will never tell us what is abuse.	00:41:29
	Because that is.	00:41:31
	What is the governing that will turn over and say that and so?	00:41:33
	You know, I'm sorry, can I excuse?	00:41:36
	But I'm burying.	00:41:39
	Did we have in code of conduct that there was a certain time limit? Because this has been going on for 15 minutes now.	00:41:42
	I think we all.	00:41:48
	I will. If you don't want me to talk to her, that's fine.	00:41:49
	15 minutes. I mean, can you?	00:41:52
	No, but what I'm saying, but what I'm saying is is like.	00:41:53
	When I met with the state auditor, he was like, well.	00:41:56
	You know that's going to be really hard.	00:41:58
	Frame like what?	00:42:00
	David said like.	00:42:01
	What is waste and what is abuse?	00:42:03
	We're having an election here in November and we're going to be held accountable of what definitions those are for, like what I	00:42:05
	define it, and that it's more of a political thing is what I'm trying to help.	00:42:09
	Understand and so like.	00:42:14
	I think.	00:42:16
	For me to get on board with it, and I do want to get on board with it tonight, I'm not because I want to hold, I'd rather hold a	00:42:17
	meeting and if we need to hold a special City Council meeting on Friday.	00:42:21
	To just me and Seth.	00:42:26
	And and and David.	00:42:28
	Or, Brett, we could get together and go because $104,000 is a ton of money.	00:42:31
	But if it were the right scope.	00:42:37
	Of different things, I could get behind it because I do think the city's.	00:42:40
	I do think the citizens.	00:42:44
	You know, want it.	00:42:47
	But right now?	00:42:48
	I'm not there.	00:42:50
	So I'm done.	00:42:51
	Mayor, Yeah, please.	00:42:54
	Couple of thoughts.	00:42:58
	On that.	00:42:59
	So our last meeting was on the 9th. That's when we.	00:43:01
	Said that we would form the committee to go and looked at about how to approach this.	00:43:04
	I had a meeting on Friday the 11th.	00:43:12
	With the mayor.	00:43:15
	The city manager and finance director.	00:43:17
	Just to discuss.	00:43:19
	What? Uh.	00:43:21
	What we thought the scope.	00:43:22
	Could or should be.	00:43:23
	And that was.	00:43:27
	Not intended to be secret or private, it was more just a.	00:43:29
	OK, what kind of advice might might we think? What do we think might be included?	00:43:32
	On the morning of the 12th, so that's Saturday, I sent out an e-mail to the entire.	00:43:38
	Council that included purpose, structure, what we were trying to accomplish.	00:43:43
	In for the sake of the record, I want to read exactly what.	00:43:48
	Was in that meeting that e-mail in terms of purpose.	00:43:52
	Which was the purpose of the initiative is to proactively one identify any anomalies related to fraud, waste or abuse to identify	00:43:55
	any vulnerabilities in our policies.	00:44:00
	And operations.	00:44:05
	Three recommend changes to build public trust and ensure Government Accountability.	00:44:06
	To the highest standards.	00:44:10
	So that was the purpose as defined.	00:44:12
	At that time, on the 12th.	00:44:15
	I think that has evolved a little bit.	00:44:17
	In terms of becoming more.	00:44:19
	Detailed.	00:44:21
	The purpose of that?	00:44:25
	E-mail was to.	00:44:26
	One expressed to the entire Council and to.	00:44:30
	The Finance Committee, what we thought.	00:44:33
	The scope of this should be and to gather input.	00:44:36
	On what we thought it.	00:44:39
	It should look like so if there were any anybody on the Council who had any input that they wanted to have.	00:44:41
	I then got an e-mail from Councilman Holloway.	00:44:52
	Copying Seth.	00:44:55
	Saying that he had a call with them.	00:44:56
	And that it was a bad idea.	00:44:58
	To me, that prompted me to.	00:45:00
	Have a have a conversation with Seth myself.	00:45:02
	Where I went over.	00:45:05
	Exactly what the what the scope was.	00:45:06
	I think we're in that I.	00:45:09
	Sent notes from that meeting.	00:45:10
	To the auditor.	00:45:12
	To get confirmation on.	00:45:15
	Whether or not my understanding of.	00:45:17
	Our meeting was accurate. I got that confirmation today and immediately shared those notes with Councilman Holloway and the	00:45:20
	Council.	00:45:24
	I didn't want to do that until I had that confirmation because.	00:45:29
	If I had a misunderstanding.	00:45:32
	Then I would not want to misrepresent.	00:45:34
	What I what I was trying to do?	00:45:38
	So from from that perspective.	00:45:41
	I feel like the the effort has been there to be.	00:45:43
	Very open and transparent about what we're trying to do.	00:45:47
	I'm certainly over for my part, I'm certainly open to having.	00:45:50
	Any additional discussion about what that scope is? I think.	00:45:55
	Mr. Larae raises a great question about.	00:45:58
	Definitions of fraud, waste and abuse that.	00:46:01
	That we should discuss and make sure that we have well defined.	00:46:03
	The RFP that we'll be looking at here in a minute is.	00:46:06
	Is pretty well defined.	00:46:11
	In terms of what the what the scope is.	00:46:13
	I also believe that we leave room for.	00:46:16
	That firm to actually.	00:46:19
	Umm make any additional suggestions?	00:46:22
	So, so when we say that they we expect them to make recommendations, I think that is an opportunity for.	00:46:27
	An independent firm to actually tell us.	00:46:33
	Where we're doing a bad job.	00:46:36
	And allow us to make those changes.	00:46:38
	So I believe.	00:46:42
	In the last two weeks we've made the effort to try and.	00:46:44
	Get to a place where we can feel good about it.	00:46:48
	And I'm certainly open to continuing that effort, and I think that's why we're all sitting here tonight.	00:46:51
	I mean, tomorrow is a holiday for most people. I get to go to work.	00:46:57
	But.	00:47:01
	But I think you know.	00:47:02
	No one was super excited to come here tonight.	00:47:04
	And we're here because this is a big deal.	00:47:07
	And that's why I think we need to make sure that.	00:47:12
	Were aligned on it.	00:47:16
	Because that public trust has been broken.	00:47:17
	And we need to, we need, we do need to rebuild it.	00:47:20
	Drag, Marty.	00:47:26
	Yeah, I'd rather not have to spend $104,000.	00:47:28
	So if it takes further conversations and.	00:47:32
	I do believe that definitions are important with fraud, waste and abuse.	00:47:35
	Umm.	00:47:39
	I don't know when I met with the.	00:47:44
	Just from my perspective.	00:47:47
	And Brett, maybe you could help me out here from our conversations, but.	00:47:50
	I believe.	00:47:54
	That with everything that you've been pushing for, Jake?	00:47:56
	You've been pushing for a state audit.	00:47:59
	From my understanding.	00:48:02
	Yeah, the state audit is still continuing, right, OK.	00:48:04
	So but I believe.	00:48:06
	The state auditor's office if we were able to repair and fix our own.	00:48:08
	Issues and make sure that we're being effective in our.	00:48:14
	Evaluations of things.	00:48:17
	That would.	00:48:19
	They would be pleased by that.	00:48:20
	And they would.	00:48:22
	Be happy that we're taking care of our own problems.	00:48:23
	I don't believe that this should be paid by the whole state.	00:48:26
	As taxpayers pay.	00:48:29
	The salary and the time used up by the state auditor.	00:48:30
	If Vineyard has a problem, we need to solve it ourselves.	00:48:33
	But again, I would rather not spend $104,000.	00:48:36
	And I do think that.	00:48:39
	Your concerns with.	00:48:41
	State of our finances.	00:48:44
	Um, maybe I've misunderstood your claims from here from.	00:48:48
	The past two years, but.	00:48:51
	You have said over and over, you have cried foul that we have corruption.	00:48:53
	In our finances and if there is, if you're correct.	00:48:58
	We need to find it.	00:49:02
	That's right. So if if that is the case.	00:49:03
	If that is the case.	00:49:07
	There was a couple of the, I don't care to have it back and forth, I just wanted to make that statement and specifically.	00:49:10
	We were given Brett and I when we met with Tina Cannon and Seth Overston.	00:49:17
	They gave us some advice of things that we could do for policy changes.	00:49:21
	And, umm.	00:49:25
	I really would just love to be able to.	00:49:27
	Move. I mean I.	00:49:30
	I've never.	00:49:34
	I'm gonna stop or good.	00:49:36
	OK, OK.	00:49:38
	So a lot of things are.	00:49:46
	Yeah, running through my head right now.	00:49:48
	One is that.	00:49:51
	You express frustration because.	00:49:52
	You aren't invited to these meetings and.	00:49:55
	Brett or Erica and me alone.	00:49:58
	And yet I don't remember getting an invite to go meet with you.	00:50:00
	And stuff.	00:50:04
	For you and Leah.	00:50:06
	For you and.	00:50:07
	Tina.	00:50:10
	Provo newspaper.	00:50:12
	I don't recall any of those invites where you wanted to bring any of the rest of us.	00:50:13
	To give to give a different side of the story.	00:50:18
	So. So if you really want to be fair and balanced, then you have to look at your behavior as well.	00:50:21
	Secondly.	00:50:26
	A lot of your accusations of.	00:50:27
	Corruption from what I've seen.	00:50:30
	It hasn't been there.	00:50:33
	And the transparency where?	00:50:35
	The council previous up.	00:50:37
	Voted on things and because we weren't watching.	00:50:39
	You accuse them of.	00:50:41
	Have not been transparent. They were transparent and they were voted on.	00:50:43
	Can I commit to you to doing a zoom meeting this week?	00:50:46
	Publicly.	00:50:48
	Why not?	00:50:50
	No. OK, well, hold on. We're not going to head back and forth.	00:50:50
	Wait.	00:50:56
	It's now Sarah's turn. You have your time every time, Jake. You had your time.	00:50:57
	And as she's speaking to something very different.	00:51:02
	You are speaking about something where the two of you can sit down.	00:51:05
	I think you can understand her point.	00:51:09
	We're going to let her continue.	00:51:11
	Please, Sarah, continue.	00:51:12
	Everyone agrees.	00:51:20
	That we want our city to run well.	00:51:21
	Everyone agrees that we want transparency.	00:51:24
	I had a conversation with Tice Blake and he.	00:51:27
	I um.	00:51:31
	I'm not a fan of name dropping but I was always curious why.	00:51:35
	He's always very.	00:51:38
	Very composed.	00:51:41
	When he sits there, he's very professional.	00:51:44
	When he was on a council.	00:51:46
	And I was always curious why he.	00:51:48
	Lost his temper about one December and told everyone to shut up.	00:51:51
	And when I had a conversation with him.	00:51:54
	It was eye opening, but it also validated what I've seen as I've sat in the seat for the last year and a half.	00:51:56
	And so so when I hear things.	00:52:04
	Like you go online and you accuse Marty.	00:52:08
	Of putting in.	00:52:11
	A policy.	00:52:13
	That restricts your ability to put things on the agenda.	00:52:14
	It's a bald faced lie.	00:52:17
	And so my patient.	00:52:19
	With your.	00:52:21
	Miss misrepresentation of the people here.	00:52:22
	And the things that.	00:52:26
	Being said about our city.	00:52:27
	I get really frustrated.	00:52:30
	And I have a little file.	00:52:32
	Of all of the things that you said.	00:52:33
	To misrepresent and and misalign and.	00:52:35
	Twist people's words.	00:52:38
	To the point where it's.	00:52:40
	It's getting pretty large, this file. Hey, point of order, Jamie.	00:52:41
	I have to have one other City Council member to add something on the City Council agenda, correct?	00:52:45
	And if I don't have 1/3.	00:52:52
	I have to come back to the City Council meeting.	00:52:54
	To get a third vote to override the mayor. This isn't a point of order. What you're doing is you're interrupting with a tangent of	00:52:57
	something that no, I'm just asking legal because that's how the legal you are interrupting something that's being discussed or	00:53:02
	something that is not on the table to take time away from.	00:53:07
	Sarah, who has not had her turn yet.	00:53:13
	So I'm not going to give it to Marty.	00:53:15
	Not going to give it to Jake.	00:53:17
	I'm going to return it back to Sarah. I can't get. I am going to return it back to Sarah. You had your time.	00:53:18
	You have to give turns to the other people.	00:53:24
	So.	00:53:28
	That the case, yeah. My problem is that you accuse Marty.	00:53:29
	Of implementing that and that's not true.	00:53:33
	Policy that don't.	00:53:35
	They're talking about me, so I get to jump in.	00:53:37
	I would like Jamie to clarify what title 3 is because.	00:53:40
	From my understanding.	00:53:44
	And from everything that we worked on.	00:53:46
	Before to get something on the Council agenda.	00:53:49
	It took three people.	00:53:51
	I worked.	00:53:53
	Nope, it took three.	00:53:55
	Before, you had to have a simple majority.	00:53:57
	To get something automatically.	00:54:00
	Or mandatorily without the mayor's.	00:54:02
	Approval on the agenda?	00:54:04
	And that was difficult for you because at the time you just had an alliance with Sarah.	00:54:06
	That you were hard.	00:54:10
	Kind of using.	00:54:12
	Your sway trying to convince other council members and I thought well that's silly, let's make it easier because if we want	00:54:14
	something on the agenda. I had felt the same way in the past so I.	00:54:18
	Worked with him to change it.	00:54:23
	Easier for you and then you did.	00:54:25
	Tell everyone.	00:54:27
	Maybe you misunderstood.	00:54:28
	But you told everyone that I made it harder.	00:54:30
	Even though I wasn't blocking you. But go back to Sarah.	00:54:32
	Go ahead, Sarah.	00:54:36
	Jamie, I'm gonna wait.	00:54:37
	For you to do that until Sarah has.	00:54:39
	Finished unless there you want this to be part of your discussion because.	00:54:41
	I want you to have your time like everybody else received.	00:54:45
	Well, I'm just going to bring up two things that I asked you.	00:54:48
	Fix a year and a half ago or a year ago?	00:54:52
	When we found out about.	00:54:54
	When we found out about Bella Lash and Mercedes.	00:54:56
	And I don't think you ever went back and clarified what those were.	00:54:59
	And so so while you're accusing the city of doing these things.	00:55:03
	That that.	00:55:06
	Look really bad on the surface.	00:55:08
	When you find out that Bela Lash is actually a utility refund.	00:55:10
	And you don't go back and correct what you said. You have to go back and correct. Yeah, we did. We corrected that. We corrected	00:55:14
	that.	00:55:17
	And we said that JKJ Sarah.	00:55:21
	Jake, listen, everybody, listen. Listen. Jake, you had lots of things. Jake, you had lots of things. You posted it on social	00:55:23
	media. Yeah, I did, right?	00:55:29
	And I said, why didn't you post it? We don't know that. You need to be quiet just for a second.	00:55:36
	Multiple people wanted to comment during your time.	00:55:41
	I did not say multiple people wanted to comment during your time.	00:55:45
	I allowed you to have that time.	00:55:51
	Now you are taking time away from Sarah. I need you to let.	00:55:53
	At this time, even if you want to respond, there are many things that you said that people really wanted to respond to you. I	00:55:56
	didn't allow them to do that. I didn't allow them to interrupt you.	00:56:01
	You need to not interrupt.	00:56:06
	The other people talking?	00:56:07
	And I know that it's hard, but we're going to give her the time.	00:56:09
	Well, and, and I'll bring up the Mercedes too, if you tell people that the city is spending their tax money on.	00:56:13
	Bella Lash and Mercedes.	00:56:19
	And then you find out that Mercedes was actually used dump truck.	00:56:21
	That takes the pendulum swing goes from one extreme to the other.	00:56:25
	No, the city isn't buying a Mercedes for them there.	00:56:28
	They're buying a used dump truck to be fiscally conservative, so if you don't clarify that difference in your discussion with your	00:56:31
	followers, you're doing a huge disservice to our community.	00:56:36
	So that's my point. That's all I have to say. Hold on. It is now. It is now my. It is now my turn.	00:56:41
	Let's make sure that I'm going to go ahead and take my turn as well.	00:56:48
	All right, there was a question.	00:56:53
	About umm.	00:56:55
	Where are we?	00:56:57
	Take this these finances and where do we find them and how do we invest them? And I wanted to talk about why we did this.	00:56:59
	So on the record, as far as we're aware.	00:57:06
	The time that we've had with the auditor.	00:57:09
	And So what we wanted to do was.	00:57:13
	Take what they gave us.	00:57:16
	And implement.	00:57:18
	A process that if they came back to us and said.	00:57:20
	Six months and they looked at what we were doing. They would see we took.	00:57:22
	Their suggestions to us? Seriously.	00:57:27
	And as the Council.	00:57:30
	Discussed there have been a lot of.	00:57:32
	Questions and.	00:57:34
	Comments and even accusations about how we're spending money and so last.	00:57:36
	On last City Council on the 9th I suggested.	00:57:41
	We dig into it.	00:57:44
	We don't want this.	00:57:46
	We don't want the.	00:57:47
	Residents of Vineyard to think that we're.	00:57:48
	Miss spending or using their tax dollars in a way that's not efficient.	00:57:51
	And in a way that represents their values.	00:57:55
	And so my thought was.	00:57:57
	We were grateful for what the auditor did, but why don't we dive in?	00:58:00
	And really make sure.	00:58:03
	We are participating in.	00:58:05
	Best practices.	00:58:07
	That our policies are brought up to where they need to be.	00:58:08
	That our finances are clear and transparent and one of the reasons as we've been growing so fast.	00:58:11
	And so taking an investment.	00:58:17
	From the money that we set aside.	00:58:19
	And our reserves and the and the funding that comes in that says.	00:58:21
	Hey, this is where we want.	00:58:26
	To return the investment to the people of Vineyard and make sure that each dollar is spent appropriately.	00:58:29
	And that it's done in a way that is.	00:58:34
	Above board.	00:58:37
	I think is a meaningful investment.	00:58:38
	We talked about.	00:58:41
	The fire station and why we had to raise taxes. So is the first time we raise taxes in 20 years.	00:58:43
	And I think the unfortunate part of it was.	00:58:48
	Inflation.	00:58:51
	And why we did it was to recoup inflation.	00:58:52
	So the percentage of our dollars that was covering our public.	00:58:55
	Safety. Umm.	00:58:58
	Had gone down.	00:58:59
	Our percentage was in the 80s.	00:59:00
	Almost 90s.	00:59:02
	And.	00:59:04
	Inflation had become so bad that it was taking us to a level that was.	00:59:04
	In the 50s.	00:59:09
	Right. Umm.	00:59:10
	And So what we were doing was we were ensuring.	00:59:11
	Umm, that our property tax continued to go to create a safe.	00:59:14
	Community.	00:59:18
	And we are so fiscally conservative we didn't bring it up to 100% like most cities have.	00:59:20
	We did it to about.	00:59:24
	In the 70s.	00:59:26
	And we?	00:59:27
	Believe that we'd be able to.	00:59:28
	Take our funds and.	00:59:30
	Spend less dollars and still provide those.	00:59:32
	Services that keep this community safe.	00:59:35
	Knowing that we would grow and that.	00:59:38
	That percentage picked back up to where it needed to be, and we're right back to where.	00:59:40
	I think is a remarkable place for the people of.	00:59:44
	Do you do that once in 20 years? I think is.	00:59:48
	Efficient.	00:59:51
	I think it's well thought out and the idea that we didn't take it all the way back to 100, but we planned for it knowing.	00:59:51
	We could be conservative with our dollars was important.	00:59:57
	I think it's important to recognize that every time we have these.	01:00:00
	Every time we wonder what Bella Lash or Mercedes or travel expenses are going on.	01:00:06
	It.	01:00:13
	Staff and our legal.	01:00:14
	And our Council.	01:00:16
	Time. Umm.	01:00:17
	And.	01:00:18
	These this 104,000 is not a lot.	01:00:20
	In comparison to what we've been.	01:00:24
	Spending on these.	01:00:26
	And I think that's important for the people of India to know your taxpayer dollars.	01:00:29
	Have been spent.	01:00:33
	Inefficiently.	01:00:34
	With these accusations and now what we are going to do is say.	01:00:35
	Let's take care of this.	01:00:40
	This is important to you.	01:00:41
	It's important to us.	01:00:43
	And we're going to invest it in an efficient way and I think.	01:00:45
	Brett really clarified in a.	01:00:47
	And in a thoughtful manner when he said.	01:00:50
	We are going to do it so that the people of Vineyard.	01:00:52
	Can look at the people that audited us.	01:00:56
	And have it be a third party. There was a.	01:00:59
	A comment made that said we're changing away from an independent audit.	01:01:02
	But we're not. This is very independent.	01:01:06
	And we'll go through an RFP process.	01:01:08
	This is a very public process.	01:01:10
	Today we're talking about the budget.	01:01:12
	Last week we talked about why the importance was out there. We're going to put out an RFP. We're going to see businesses come in.	01:01:14
	And request to be a part of that process.	01:01:21
	Now I think what's important is.	01:01:24
	The e-mail and I'm Eric. I'm going to give you time to clarify.	01:01:26
	The difference between how we do things internally as a city, especially since that chapter closed with the auditor.	01:01:30
	And when we go to the state.	01:01:36
	And that we are appreciative of those things.	01:01:39
	I think that's important for clarity.	01:01:42
	There's another thing that I think is important.	01:01:44
	Sometimes the news reports things.	01:01:47
	In a way that.	01:01:51
	We have to clarify.	01:01:53
	So there was a comment that said Brett went to Seth and ended up clarifying for the auditor that we were going to work with the	01:01:54
	TC, but.	01:01:58
	On original documents in our records.	01:02:03
	We have something available to the citizens that show what we are doing.	01:02:05
	In our steps to.	01:02:10
	Manage and work with the auditors findings.	01:02:12
	And their observations.	01:02:16
	And in that document it talks about how we're going to reach out to the TUC.	01:02:18
	It talks about the things that we're going to do.	01:02:22
	Come together and work as a group.	01:02:25
	I think that's really important.	01:02:27
	Last on the 9th, we all.	01:02:30
	Talked about how this is going to be managed and I think that's really important for the public.	01:02:32
	Because Brett is over our finances as a liaison from the council, he's leading this and Sarah volunteered to go and be a part of	01:02:38
	this.	01:02:42
	And there's going to be multiple people a part of this process. It's going to be.	01:02:46
	The company that they bring in, and they probably bring some people in from the public that have skills and background to be able	01:02:50
	to look at this and vet these numbers and, and make sure the scope is proper. That's part of it. One of the things that we talked	01:02:57
	about on the Friday 11th meeting, as the executive group was to say to make sure that we had all of the legalities right, to make	01:03:03
	sure that we knew how to bring it back to the council properly, to make sure that we knew which meetings needed to come forward.	01:03:10
	And to make sure that we knew how.	01:03:17
	This group was going to coordinate with the rest of the Council because the transparency of working with the rest of council.	01:03:18
	Was really critical and that started with the e-mail that Brett talked about, which was.	01:03:24
	To David Larry's point.	01:03:29
	Define.	01:03:31
	Define things like.	01:03:34
	Fraud and abuse.	01:03:35
	To make sure that we understand those words and to get the right people and experts in to come and help us understand that	01:03:36
	terminology and come together.	01:03:40
	The really nice thing I think about the exchanges that went back and forth between the Council was that.	01:03:45
	You're welcome to meet with whomever that you want to get advice and.	01:03:50
	Ideas and then bring that content.	01:03:55
	Back into the.	01:03:58
	To tell us about.	01:03:59
	How do you want it to find?	01:04:00
	What would Seth Obesan, if you're meeting with him, Jake, what would you want to see?	01:04:01
	From your perspective, because that's who you're getting advice from.	01:04:06
	And anybody else?	01:04:09
	Brings it back.	01:04:10
	To the lead and to.	01:04:12
	Who will come together?	01:04:14
	And they'll bring that back to the audit committee.	01:04:16
	And then that will come back.	01:04:18
	To us as a body, as a whole, like we do every other process.	01:04:19
	I think that's important because there's clarity in that.	01:04:23
	The whole council's involved.	01:04:25
	It's clear it's.	01:04:27
	Its public record.	01:04:29
	And work together on it and what we will do most.	01:04:30
	Importantly, spend those dollars.	01:04:33
	Efficiently, uh.	01:04:35
	And in a way, that's.	01:04:37
	Saves taxpayer dollars, removes the burden that's been there and helps us.	01:04:38
	In the long run.	01:04:42
	As we narrow in on that scope, I'm sure you guys will have a lot of opportunities to come together and discuss those things.	01:04:43
	Eric, I'm going to spend, I'm going to give a little bit of time.	01:04:49
	For you to share what you wanted to share and then I'm going to.	01:04:52
	And potentially.	01:04:56
	Finish up what I was my notes.	01:04:57
	And then I'm going to return it back to the discussion if there's anything otherwise I'd like to.	01:04:59
	Make a motion.	01:05:03
	Go ahead, Eric.	01:05:04
	My point is just really quick. A couple times it's been raised.	01:05:06
	If they're how we define fraud, waste and abuse.	01:05:10
	Fortunately for us.	01:05:13
	It's not something that we need to define.	01:05:15
	The generally accepted.	01:05:17
	Counting procedures.	01:05:19
	Specifically defines those measures and an outside accounting firm or audit firm.	01:05:22
	We'll use that those specific definitions to guide their review of our.	01:05:28
	Finances.	01:05:33
	So that's one that we we don't need to participate on.	01:05:34
	You could look that up there. They're pretty clearly defined online. You can.	01:05:37
	You can read through.	01:05:42
	The definitions of each of those.	01:05:43
	As for the letter.	01:05:46
	The letter that I've.	01:05:48
	Submitted.	01:05:49
	The chain of conversation going on between.	01:05:50
	Our Finance Committee.	01:05:54
	And uh.	01:05:56
	The auditor.	01:05:57
	Was that?	01:05:59
	As a City Council, you.	01:06:00
	You are a political subdivision of this state.	01:06:02
	Granted.	01:06:05
	A great deal of autonomy.	01:06:06
	And that as you act as a.	01:06:09
	As a legislative body.	01:06:11
	You can create.	01:06:12
	Systems for oversight you can create.	01:06:14
	Bylaws for our city and.	01:06:17
	The more we rely on, it isn't that I have any issue whatsoever.	01:06:19
	With utilizing the expertise of a state oversight.	01:06:24
	Body like the state auditor.	01:06:28
	It's that.	01:06:30
	As a city, you you have been granted.	01:06:31
	Autonomy.	01:06:33
	To create your own bylaws and operate as a municipality.	01:06:35
	And that the more you rely on outside entities.	01:06:39
	It can.	01:06:41
	Have an eroding effect on.	01:06:43
	The value of you acting as a body and I just wanted to.	01:06:45
	Make sure that we are being clear on that so that.	01:06:49
	If our City Council wants to.	01:06:52
	Arrange for an external audit.	01:06:55
	They are perfectly in their realm of.	01:06:57
	Of autonomy to.	01:07:00
	To conduct that study.	01:07:01
	Or to request it.	01:07:03
	Because it is an external audit.	01:07:05
	As the Council, you'll simply be.	01:07:07
	Hearing from that auditor.	01:07:11
	They'll say we need.	01:07:13
	This this this this.	01:07:14
	You'll ask our staff to produce that.	01:07:16
	And that outside auditor will independently review whatever it is that they're receiving from us. So it becomes.	01:07:19
	Very much.	01:07:25
	An official outside audit.	01:07:26
	Independent audit.	01:07:28
	And I'll leave it with that. Well, and I think one of the great things that we're doing and I really think.	01:07:30
	Will be meaningful to the residents is that?	01:07:35
	We can search for the things that.	01:07:38
	All of the representatives bring to the table and invite to that scope and say.	01:07:40
	This is really what we want to review so that.	01:07:44
	It's very clear, very transparent and it's aligned with the commitments that we've made to.	01:07:47
	People, there was something that I don't think I explained when I was explaining how we aligned it and for the people to be	01:07:53
	involved, but we do have to be very thoughtful.	01:07:57
	Of creating quorums.	01:08:01
	And so even on a meeting on Friday, even though Sarah was involved.	01:08:03
	Because we had to go back to the legalities and executive meetings, she couldn't be there because I was there. So we have to be	01:08:08
	thoughtful about how we interact and one of the ways that we've decided and.	01:08:13
	Really thought this would be.	01:08:17
	Effective is by making sure.	01:08:20
	We get those e-mail chains going.	01:08:23
	I don't think it's a part of this discussion.	01:08:26
	But I'm happy now to yield a little bit of time today. I need to just clarify the votes unless we want to do that after this.	01:08:30
	Meeting agenda.	01:08:38
	I can talk briefly to it, although I.	01:08:40
	I don't know that it has anything to do with the.	01:08:43
	Audit, so if you want me to come back to it later, I can.	01:08:45
	I get to write this right. Could we do it right after this?	01:08:48
	OK, actually it's fine.	01:08:51
	Go ahead and take a minute.	01:08:52
	Oh, and then we'll close that discussion.	01:08:53
	There didn't used to be a lot of detail in title 3 of the.	01:08:56
	City code and.	01:08:59
	Previously there was question about.	01:09:01
	What would it take for something to get on the agenda and without any rule in place?	01:09:03
	The only way the council could act on things was by majority vote, but.	01:09:08
	And so the Council adopted rules put it into.	01:09:12
	I shouldn't even say rules in ordinance.	01:09:15
	Put it into title 3 of the city code and it allows any 2 council members together.	01:09:17
	To request to have something on the agenda and then.	01:09:23
	It would be put on the agenda.	01:09:26
	And you know, there's the detailed process for other now that let's let's make sure.	01:09:27
	It can be submitted to the mayor.	01:09:32
	And then if the mayor denies it?	01:09:34
	Then I can talk in a council meeting and then we need to.	01:09:36
	As I said, it has a detailed process. That's a big detail, Jamie.	01:09:41
	So it needs a third.	01:09:45
	No, no, it doesn't. And I, I think maybe for clarity because I think maybe you're not.	01:09:46
	That's also.	01:09:53
	People can find out that what you're saying is not true. In fact, most of the time you don't request.	01:09:55
	Things but when you do, I don't request anything anymore because of the fight. You guys don't want to hear the problem, just like	01:10:00
	Sarah doesn't want to talk openly.	01:10:05
	Like or do cross examine or hey, you say there's a lie, let's get into the details like.	01:10:09
	You, Sarah, it's not funny to laugh.	01:10:16
	You're making false accusations as well, and I think that it's.	01:10:20
	So hold on, I'm clear. No, I'm going to.	01:10:24
	Because I'll apologize for the ball out. No, I want to. I want to end this discussion.	01:10:29
	Jake, I want to end this discussion because it doesn't have to do with us. I just wanted you to.	01:10:33
	No, I just wanted you to understand meeting protocol. This doesn't even have to do with what we're talking about.	01:10:39
	And meeting protocol.	01:10:44
	Is that?	01:10:46
	You can e-mail.	01:10:47
	And then?	01:10:49
	You can get to people and if two people don't support you, which might be why your item isn't making it.	01:10:50
	Or it.	01:10:55
	Didn't meet the criteria. Hold on please.	01:10:56
	Is that you would bring it to the Council and see if.	01:10:59
	Then you could be supported a different way. It's it's actually to enable you and give you multiple opportunities to get something	01:11:02
	on the agenda. It's it's an empowerment tool to say an empowerment that nothing has been on the agenda. Mayor, that is not true.	01:11:10
	I, I disagree with you can't talk about LRS we can't talk about. There's so many things we can't talk about here.	01:11:17
	That's not true.	01:11:24
	But we're not talking about the items.	01:11:25
	There's so many things. I mean, let's just name them.	01:11:28
	You can't say that I'm not trying.	01:11:33
	Yeah, in the last six months we're having over the season and it's not.	01:11:35
	Listen to me, no. But if you say point of order, I'm not saying anything false.	01:11:39
	You just disagree.	01:11:44
	Right. I'm just saying like, no, no.	01:11:45
	Listen, listen to what I'm saying. Can we put him on the agenda then?	01:11:48
	Jake, right now I'm explaining the process to you.	01:11:51
	I'm explaining that it.	01:11:55
	Saves you the opportunity to do it in multiple ways.	01:11:57
	Right. They'll be blocked multiple ways because obviously they haven't been on the agenda, right?	01:12:00
	All right. Now that you know the rules and that we've discussed it and Jamie has made it clear and everybody understands that if	01:12:05
	you guys would like to have a further discussion at a different time, we can.	01:12:10
	But we are going to solve what we are here to do on this agenda item.	01:12:16
	So let's go ahead and if was there any other questions for clarity? I had a question for clarity. I know that the next topic is.	01:12:21
	Approving the RFP, yeah, we'll be pushing that to a different meeting. OK. I'm just wondering if.	01:12:31
	We can.	01:12:37
	Wait till we get the RFP and then we can decide how much money we need to transfer for our budget amendment. Rather than	01:12:39
	preemptively transferring, can we wait till we know?	01:12:44
	What it is?	01:12:49
	Yeah, that would be great.	01:12:51
	Christie reached out to some.	01:12:53
	Firms and got a ballpark.	01:12:54
	If we have that in the budget.	01:12:56
	Then the next decision will simply be a council decision to approve the contract at the.	01:12:59
	Actual amount that it is.	01:13:03
	I mean, does it hurt to wait and disapprove it when we?	01:13:06
	Have the numbers.	01:13:09
	But I mean, that is what that is what Eric is saying we would do.	01:13:10
	We're just putting it into the budget. No, I understand. I mean.	01:13:15
	We're just saving funding.	01:13:19
	And we still have the funding. It's just moving it around at this point. I mean, I'm fine.	01:13:21
	I just think.	01:13:26
	We could post. I mean does it harm to postpone this with the other item?	01:13:27
	If you guys don't want this to be this massive thing and you want it to be successful.	01:13:34
	Just sitting down with the state auditor with me and.	01:13:39
	For an hour and going through Brett's scope of work so that.	01:13:43
	We can hear it.	01:13:47
	You can get a second opinion and go OK, great. And then hearing that advice and saying, OK, this is where we're at.	01:13:48
	I think we could find bipartisan stuff. Well, I sat down with the auditor and had a really great conversation with Brett, and she	01:13:54
	clarified several things and pointed out several things.	01:14:00
	He thought about the original. I'm talking about this spending $104,000. What I think is wild is you've never invited me to any of	01:14:05
	these meetings. You've had like all these conversations about an audit, what council member from any city?	01:14:11
	Pursues auditing their own city.	01:14:18
	Like if you would have sat down, we are in Ukraine, India.	01:14:20
	France and England so small city like this and.	01:14:25
	There was no payments.	01:14:30
	I know. And you guys don't think that is wasted abuse? No, that's not what you say.	01:14:32
	Pay for We did not pay for the mayor, but the membership doesn't just provide those, they pay for other things as well.	01:14:37
	But we've talked about this several times and you bring it up all the time and then.	01:14:45
	Other people are misunderstanding what you're saying and.	01:14:49
	Making it more inflammatory. And So what I'm saying is.	01:14:52
	We've talked about travel policies. You've requested many things to call. We've talked about the Financial Policy. You asked for	01:14:56
	that to go on the agenda.	01:14:59
	It went on. You asked about the travel policy. It went on.	01:15:03
	It's not my problem if you're not getting what you want out of those meetings.	01:15:07
	It is your problem because Eric is your city manager. And if I'm not included in it.	01:15:11
	On your shoulders. Public meetings.	01:15:16
	Yeah. But if you guys are just presenting, this is our policy and we're not changing it. No, that's not at all. We're the one	01:15:18
	that's accountable. We didn't change our procurement policy because you didn't show up to that meeting. You were not there. I was	01:15:24
	in the procurement meeting.	01:15:29
	No, I'm talking about we had it a few times on the agenda.	01:15:34
	Helped some of the discussion to read what's in the.	01:15:39
	RFP and what the scope is.	01:15:42
	Sure. And then you can proceed to whatever you want to do on the.	01:15:44
	On the boat.	01:15:48
	But I.	01:15:49
	I We have heard.	01:15:50
	Over the last few years, complaints about.	01:15:52
	Several different aspects of.	01:15:55
	How the city manages its resources, be it be.	01:15:58
	Procurement, be it financial oversight.	01:16:00
	And the city?	01:16:03
	Those rumors?	01:16:06
	In part because there's been no independent auditor, no independent review.	01:16:08
	And that's what this effort is about, is to bring somebody in that doesn't.	01:16:12
	According to professional standards.	01:16:16
	Those professional standards require independence. Those professional standards have definitions. They have.	01:16:18
	Protocols and procedures.	01:16:25
	That are established nationally. They're not.	01:16:27
	Vineyards.	01:16:30
	Specific, uh.	01:16:31
	Protocol for procedures.	01:16:32
	There is in the RFP.	01:16:34
	Three different.	01:16:38
	Categories of deliverables that the auditor would be asked to do. The first is what's called.	01:16:38
	And agreed upon procedures audit agreed upon procedures is.	01:16:44
	A term of art.	01:16:48
	In the professional finance.	01:16:49
	Where you define procedures for audit and then they look at things.	01:16:53
	What the agreed upon procedures?	01:16:56
	Audit will include.	01:16:59
	But is not limited to our five different things. This gets at the Frogway Synapse.	01:17:01
	It's a review of transaction level data for procurement and disbursement cycles.	01:17:06
	It's a review of compliance with internal spending thresholds and approvals.	01:17:11
	It's a sampling of employee reimbursements and credit card charges.	01:17:15
	It's a verification of urine balances and fund transfers for selected fiscal years.	01:17:20
	And its compliance with key state laws.	01:17:25
	Now the agreed upon.	01:17:28
	Procedures portion of the audit is where you look at the existing rules you look at.	01:17:31
	What is accounted for and what's in the books, and you see whether they align.	01:17:36
	And if they don't, then you get a report back that helps you understand that.	01:17:40
	And there you can.	01:17:44
	Target or pinpointed front way. I'm not finished.	01:17:45
	And the second part of.	01:17:49
	The audit and the second category of deliverables is.	01:17:52
	Written it.	01:17:57
	Evaluation of policies and procedures for each listed category.	01:17:58
	So if you look at the two together, the 1st is saying what are your current rules and do you follow them?	01:18:02
	The second category is saying.	01:18:07
	What are your current rules?	01:18:09
	And should they be modified, updated or changed?	01:18:11
	In accordance with.	01:18:14
	Their experience.	01:18:16
	Nationally and locally and best practices both in the state.	01:18:17
	And outside of the state.	01:18:21
	Part of the recommendations there specifically would be.	01:18:23
	To have.	01:18:27
	To evaluate the city's mechanisms for reporting and investigating.	01:18:28
	Employee misconduct.	01:18:33
	Waste or fraud?	01:18:34
	And best practices on evaluating the city's.	01:18:37
	Procedures.	01:18:41
	And then the third thing that we would ask of the auditor.	01:18:42
	Is that they?	01:18:45
	Prepare recommendations for an audit committee, charter or bylaws.	01:18:47
	What an appointment process would look like and then sample onboarding or training.	01:18:53
	For that committee, should the city decide to stand it up.	01:18:57
	For the targeted review of internal.	01:19:01
	Controls. There are categories of things that they would look at. They include.	01:19:04
	Employee peak heart issuance and use.	01:19:08
	Employee travel and reimbursement.	01:19:10
	Municipal vehicle.	01:19:13
	Assignment and usage tracking.	01:19:14
	Redevelopment Agency.	01:19:17
	Payments and compliance.	01:19:18
	Procurement of food.	01:19:20
	Meals, events, Employee recognition.	01:19:21
	Cast Transactions Utility Billing.	01:19:24
	RDA Cleanup.	01:19:27
	The last.	01:19:29
	Two of those are recommendations that came specifically from the state auditor where they said can you include.	01:19:30
	Those two categories of things, and we obliged that and.	01:19:37
	Included them.	01:19:41
	Now, if you'll permit me.	01:19:43
	Editorial comment.	01:19:45
	I am baffled.	01:19:47
	By Councilmember Holdaway complaining about these items.	01:19:48
	And then objecting to bringing.	01:19:52
	Somebody and independently review them.	01:19:55
	I can't reconcile that.	01:19:57
	I don't understand why you would ask.	01:19:59
	Questions about those categories of expenses?	01:20:01
	And then not want somebody to examine them.	01:20:04
	OK. I would love to respond to that.	01:20:07
	When I get messages.	01:20:11
	Of our cars in Vegas and in Disneyland.	01:20:13
	And I try and get fuel expenses in October, right? David Larae.	01:20:17
	And say.	01:20:22
	Can I get an excess of T cards? I am told that we are not keeping that data and that our vendor does not provide that.	01:20:23
	And it takes six months to gather that information.	01:20:30
	On a delay so that the information is lost.	01:20:34
	So that's the first thing. Second.	01:20:37
	I know if you've.	01:20:39
	What no information was my information. The citizens that took the information of the car, not your information, my information.	01:20:41
	To be able to look over what you guys are doing.	01:20:49
	Because it took six months.	01:20:51
	Because I'm lied to.	01:20:53
	You guys told me the vendor didn't provide it and it did.	01:20:55
	They hadn't. They had it meaning you've never looked over it, ever. And they even told us that.	01:20:58
	You guys have never looked over this.	01:21:05
	These are the problems that I have is like you guys delay and delay.	01:21:06
	And you fight it. And then finally it's produced six months later. And that's when we lose that trust, the issue you just	01:21:12
	mentioned.	01:21:16
	Right. And I understand that, but what I'm saying is he's asking why you don't want us to audit ourselves if that's your problem,	01:21:19
	why you're asking questions about the same categories that are in here because we're not wanting.	01:21:26
	An independent review of those. I started that conversation and said I totally at the beginning of the conversation, I support	01:21:33
	Brett.	01:21:37
	Threats wanting to go through and do that.	01:21:41
	But I.	01:21:45
	Immediately when I sit down with a state auditor.	01:21:46
	I get an e-mail from him telling me not.	01:21:49
	That we shouldn't be doing.	01:21:51
	And that I'm not in the e-mail.	01:21:52
	To be.	01:21:54
	Involved in that meeting and I haven't had that meeting with that, OK, I think.	01:21:55
	So I'd love to go through your skeptic scope, what you're saying there.	01:21:59
	With them.	01:22:02
	To get by in because.	01:22:03
	What I heard from Brett was.	01:22:04
	Well, I went and sat down with it at the beginning. We went and sat down with Eric.	01:22:06
	And Christie.	01:22:10
	And they put.	01:22:11
	Forth the guidelines and I'm like, well, that doesn't sound like an independent audit to me because I'm fighting for fuel records.	01:22:12
	Of cars all over the place, right? And it took us six months.	01:22:19
	And by that time I go back and we don't.	01:22:22
	Where they're at or who's driving, you're not going to be able to figure it out, so it just loses trust.	01:22:24
	On the bellow lasses thing, I would definitely apologize for the bellow lashes thing.	01:22:30
	When we first originally looked at the Ledger.	01:22:35
	We're going to come back to this. No, because I made a mistake. I can totally order.	01:22:39
	We're going to come back to this item.	01:22:43
	Because it's really important, right? And we're going to stay, we're going to stay on this. But.	01:22:45
	If someone throws something that I'm just honest, I can totally apologize for it.	01:22:49
	We had to take.	01:22:53
	Right now we're going to.	01:22:56
	Item so that we can get through the business of the city.	01:22:57
	Hold on, Jake.	01:23:02
	This is gonna take 30 seconds.	01:23:03
	I will give you a few seconds. Go ahead.	01:23:05
	When we looked at the Ledger.	01:23:09
	We saw a hotel in France, a hotel in England, Bella Lashes, Mercedes.	01:23:10
	And we and I.	01:23:15
	Mistakenly.	01:23:17
	Blurted out in a small group of people.	01:23:18
	I want to look at this. I want to look at this. I want to look at this.	01:23:21
	And I did not know if Beller lasses 1 of 15 things.	01:23:24
	Or are the bell lasses in the other thing?	01:23:28
	That didn't end up being true.	01:23:31
	But the four-star hotel was.	01:23:34
	The biking in Dallas was all of these other things were.	01:23:36
	Listen, we're here to take. Hey, Jake, listen to me. Please listen.	01:23:40
	No, and I didn't even go to social media.	01:23:44
	Hey Jake, you're the one that posted.	01:23:47
	So I didn't even go to Eric about Belacas. You did?	01:23:50
	So I don't know. I'm not responsible for that.	01:23:53
	But on the other stuff.	01:23:56
	But 8090%?	01:23:58
	Guys, I would really like to.	01:23:59
	To get through this meeting, you know.	01:24:01
	And I would like your support.	01:24:03
	And moving this meeting forward.	01:24:04
	It's really critical that we.	01:24:08
	Keep to our agenda and move this forward, otherwise our business items can be derailed and we have people that come here.	01:24:10
	Hear this and to hear the agenda items.	01:24:17
	That are here.	01:24:19
	On the agendas and I would really like your support.	01:24:20
	There can I make a quick point just to respond to the question that Marty asked about the.	01:24:23
	The pertinence?	01:24:28
	Proving this tonight.	01:24:30
	No, not until I get a response from the Council.	01:24:31
	For the support, Oh, I would love to move the meeting forward.	01:24:35
	OK. Thank you.	01:24:39
	I'm going to make a point to that and then you can.	01:24:42
	I don't well.	01:24:44
	Actually, yeah.	01:24:45
	Do you feel like it's necessary tonight? Yeah.	01:24:46
	OK, umm.	01:24:48
	As a practice for us, for city staff.	01:24:50
	It is.	01:24:54
	Our common practice to have.	01:24:56
	Anything that we are pursuing with.	01:24:58
	Dollars attached to it.	01:25:01
	That we have a budget.	01:25:03
	Approved for that item.	01:25:04
	It would be in bad faith for us to issue an RFP and have people go through the work of.	01:25:06
	Producing a proposal.	01:25:11
	For something that we have not approved a budget to support.	01:25:13
	And so.	01:25:17
	If we can approve a budget tonight.	01:25:17
	It doesn't mean that you have to spend the dollars, it means that we have dollars set aside for that item that we are issuing an	01:25:20
	RFP on.	01:25:23
	And a later decision will come to the Council.	01:25:26
	So that you can give your support.	01:25:30
	Or or lack.	01:25:32
	Of the specific contract that we bring before Council.	01:25:34
	Right. We're not approving RFP tonight. It could be moved with the other one because we want to be.	01:25:39
	You wouldn't be putting it out to RFP.	01:25:43
	The.	01:25:46
	Would go out what you would approve at a later time as.	01:25:47
	And award of a contract, right? Well, the problem is is the scope.	01:25:50
	Like the reason why when I spoke with the state auditor and he was like, whoa, 104 was like, what is that scope? And he didn't	01:25:54
	know. And I spoke to him an hour before this meeting.	01:25:58
	And I was like, is that high? And it's like.	01:26:03
	Well, wow, how are you defining?	01:26:05
	And we got all these questions and I was like.	01:26:07
	OK. So if you don't know, I don't know, I don't know what fret either.	01:26:10
	And that's why I think it needs to be delayed. And I want you to know.	01:26:13
	That if if we're gonna have healing in our city.	01:26:16
	You guys need me?	01:26:18
	Because it can't just be going and.	01:26:20
	We.	01:26:23
	Our employees, we put the scope of work together.	01:26:24
	Jake asked over and over to be included.	01:26:27
	They went and met all by themselves, but then when they came back and said this is the scope and we're going to follow the city	01:26:31
	staff.	01:26:33
	Drink like I want to be on board I want to.	01:26:37
	I'm gonna say something though.	01:26:39
	This let's make it very clear what we would be doing right now.	01:26:41
	Because I think there's confusion.	01:26:45
	Tonight we would be putting savings aside.	01:26:48
	For a future possibility.	01:26:51
	Eric saying that.	01:26:54
	If you have savings set aside, people know that you're serious. It triggers the RFP.	01:26:56
	No, the artist could be put out.	01:27:01
	Anyway, we're just saying it's.	01:27:03
	Better if we put the finances.	01:27:05
	And we're saving them.	01:27:08
	That is what you're saying.	01:27:10
	Now we're not spending them yet.	01:27:12
	We're saving them.	01:27:13
	I have no problem with the.	01:27:15
	The spending, it's the scope of work. It's OK so #2.	01:27:16
	The scope of work is designed like this.	01:27:20
	Brett and Sarah as a quorum will be working together to fulfill this before we send out the RFP.	01:27:24
	I think you can.	01:27:31
	Work with them.	01:27:33
	Through the channels that were designed.	01:27:34
	To complete and.	01:27:36
	Say these are the things that the RFP is on the street.	01:27:38
	So I don't want, yeah.	01:27:41
	That it's been published, it's out.	01:27:43
	OK. When was that put out? Hold on one second, Jake.	01:27:45
	And the scope of the RFP was shared with the full council.	01:27:49
	And a request by Brett.	01:27:53
	For feedback from the Council.	01:27:55
	And then Brett reached out to Seth to verify with him. Yeah, which we saw all of that information was.	01:27:56
	Encapsulating what?	01:28:03
	All I did is verify the notes of the music. OK so.	01:28:05
	So well, and we're not we're not actually working with the state auditor to create ourselves. I think the point that is being	01:28:09
	discussed here.	01:28:13
	Is that you were given an opportunity to define the scope.	01:28:19
	So we hope that you took the opportunity.	01:28:23
	You were, you were able, you were able to meet with the auditor yourself.	01:28:28
	Brett was able to meet with the auditor also.	01:28:37
	And then you were given the opportunity to send an e-mail. No, you did.	01:28:40
	No, I didn't. No, what I mean is you had an opportunity.	01:28:45
	During the time that you were given the e-mail.	01:28:49
	You even talked to him today by yourself. Am I misunderstanding that? You have a definitely misunderstanding because all he did is	01:28:52
	verify the notes of Brett. He did not verify the scope of the RFP.	01:28:57
	He didn't. He knew there were certain things that were added. OK, but I wasn't in that meeting. And so to put that in our words,	01:29:03
	what about what about the e-mail?	01:29:07
	Why didn't you send it to him if you were working with him? I did send him.	01:29:10
	No, it's with Brett's.	01:29:16
	Scope e-mail asking you for your input on this because I sat down and said let's have a meeting and that's what we were going to	01:29:18
	go through. It looks like you were.	01:29:21
	Told that they weren't going to meet together. So right we were denied the meeting. No, my question is why didn't you go and ask	01:29:25
	us?	01:29:29
	If you really wanted such input.	01:29:33
	Because Seth, at that point.	01:29:35
	I had no knowledge.	01:29:37
	Brett was even going to meet with him.	01:29:38
	I didn't even know he'd met with him.	01:29:40
	Because the e-mail from Eric was that it wasn't going to go through.	01:29:42
	So I emailed back and said if I'm not going to meet with.	01:29:45
	The bread and the state auditor, you guys are going to stop that.	01:29:48
	To go over the scope, I'm not going to participate. We're not going to kick the state out of her.	01:29:52
	From counseling me and getting help.	01:29:56
	I'm not going to go through that process. So from Eric's.	01:29:59
	Explanation. I don't think I don't understand it that way. It doesn't seem like that's the way that you intended it. It doesn't	01:30:02
	seem that that that's the way that Brett interpreted it.	01:30:07
	I think you should review the scope and.	01:30:13
	Maybe inside of the scope that's there, look for things that.	01:30:16
	You could.	01:30:21
	Could meet your needs.	01:30:23
	As Brett mentioned, most of the things that you've been bringing up.	01:30:24
	To the Council and to the public.	01:30:28
	Are being discussed and I think that's because especially me on the 9th.	01:30:31
	I wanted to make sure that those things were incorporated.	01:30:36
	If you see something that isn't there, I think you could shoot an e-mail to Brett.	01:30:39
	And really talk about it.	01:30:44
	I guess what I mean is the scope is broad.	01:30:47
	No, it's not. It's pretty defined in the scope of every RFP is pretty. Jamie read it to us and it seemed like there were a lot of	01:30:52
	opportunities in writing. So why would you be able to adjust it if it's already off? That's what we're arguing because sometimes	01:30:57
	there's categories software company I taught.	01:31:02
	Request for proposals for eight years. I know what this is. Were there any times where there were categories where you could fit	01:31:07
	in the things that you care about to be put into those categories?	01:31:13
	104,000 Shock like whoa, what is going on?	01:31:19
	And I hear is that it'll be.	01:31:24
	You know, 10 to 20.	01:31:26
	Oh, OK.	01:31:27
	Because what we're looking, you guys are trying to go after trust.	01:31:28
	I'm trying to grasp their trust.	01:31:32
	How are you going to get trust?	01:31:34
	You're going to get trust by the state auditor saying we're in compliance with those things.	01:31:35
	They're going to get thrust by saying.	01:31:39
	Jake was involved in the process.	01:31:41
	Others were in the categories that in the oversight of it.	01:31:43
	That's the only way you get trust.	01:31:46
	If you guys go out and hire your own third party independent person and your own employee, that's like hiring your own.	01:31:48
	Your own referee. It's really difficult when people try to involve you and you you don't participate if it's not the way that you	01:31:55
	want it to be, like you could have.	01:31:59
	Participating now.	01:32:04
	And and and tonight, you know.	01:32:06
	This is so.	01:32:08
	Sorry, can I interrupt again?	01:32:10
	Marty has to leave. We didn't figure this would be a long, long meeting.	01:32:12
	And Jake, you know what?	01:32:16
	You own a company.	01:32:17
	That that provides standard of measurements for companies, right?	01:32:19
	This is literally what This is why we argue about. This is literally what Jamie just explained.	01:32:22
	Whoever we hire.	01:32:26
	They're the standard of measurements for audit that.	01:32:28
	No, no, Marty has to go.	01:32:31
	So we're just gonna stop right here?	01:32:33
	And let Julie have the right.	01:32:35
	I know that it's ideal.	01:32:38
	It doesn't seem like.	01:32:40
	Everybody is on board with it. Is it possible that we could?	01:32:42
	I'm fine with.	01:32:45
	I'm fine with moving money in the budget. That's fine. And that we're going to have the final say on the RFP before the money	01:32:47
	spent. That's right.	01:32:51
	OK, umm.	01:32:55
	So, umm.	01:32:55
	For clarity for the public.	01:32:56
	We're saving money.	01:32:58
	The RFP is out, you can read it.	01:32:59
	You can, you know.	01:33:01
	Review the notes that were written tonight if you find things that fit into that scope.	01:33:02
	Please feel free to e-mail Brett or Sara, they're the.	01:33:07
	People that are working on this.	01:33:10
	If you find an opportunity inside that, I hope that works out.	01:33:12
	Umm, because we really want you to be involved in this process and I hope that.	01:33:17
	We've made that really clear as we go through this process.	01:33:21
	I need a motion.	01:33:24
	To adopt.	01:33:25
	This change.	01:33:28
	I move to adopt resolution.	01:33:33
	2025-40.	01:33:34
	Vineyard City Fiscal Year 20252026 Budget amendment #1 as presented by staff.	01:33:36
	All right. Thank you. At the first by Brett. Can I get a second?	01:33:42
	Second Second by Sarah.	01:33:45
	I'm going to do this by roll call.	01:33:48
	Shake No.	01:33:49
	Hi, Marty.	01:33:53
	Sarah, hi.	01:33:55
	All right, so this.	01:33:56
	This next one, I think what we're going to do is.	01:33:57
	I am going to ask that.	01:34:02
	We just pull this from the agenda and what we'll do is we'll revisit it in a way that.	01:34:05
	The Council will be able to, really.	01:34:10
	And review the RFP and look at it and.	01:34:13
	Awarded bid and.	01:34:19
	Make this process as public as we can. So I was going to have this continued, but instead let's strike it from the.	01:34:21
	Agenda. I'm going to ask for a motion.	01:34:28
	So moved. Thanks, Brett. Can I get a second?	01:34:31
	Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor.	01:34:34
	Aye, all right.	01:34:36
	That was the strength. Oh, sorry.	01:34:41
	OK. And the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.	01:34:44

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Event transcript
	All right, Marty.	00:00:02
	As a reminder.	00:00:08
	You're starting.	00:00:09
	All right, today is July 23rd, 2025.	00:00:11
	The time is 6:00 PM and we're going to go ahead and start a regular City Council meeting.	00:00:15
	We're going to start out with an invocation and.	00:00:20
	Public reasons by Councilmember Fuentes.	00:00:22
	Our dear crying Heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful summer day. You were.	00:00:27
	Grateful for this wonderful community we live in.	00:00:31
	Please put a special blessing over all those who are struggling.	00:00:35
	We suppose our families in need.	00:00:38
	That they can find the connection and supports that they need.	00:00:40
	Please bless us to be.	00:00:44
	Good advocates for our community and represent well and.	00:00:46
	Good communication and collaboration as a council.	00:00:50
	So grateful for our staff and all the hard work they do, our community, for all the wonderful involvement. We see these things in	00:00:52
	the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. All right.	00:00:56
	Of the United States of America.	00:01:06
	Stands one nation under God.	00:01:11
	I.	00:01:16
	All right, we're going to go ahead and open up our public comments. This is a time for you to address.	00:01:20
	Things with the Council that are not on the agenda, if you would like to speak.	00:01:25
	Please come up and state your name.	00:01:29
	And where you're from and Pam will set a timer of two minutes for you and you can.	00:01:31
	So, your thoughts?	00:01:37
	OK, seeing as there are no comments, I'm going to go ahead and close.	00:01:44
	Oh, it's a skating. We have some people. Come on.	00:01:48
	Unfortunately, I might get kicked out of it.	00:02:00
	Cornelius.	00:02:02
	I just I was out of town.	00:02:04
	So I'm just.	00:02:08
	Perplexed.	00:02:10
	And confused.	00:02:12
	So my question is, are we?	00:02:13
	Hiring an auditor to.	00:02:16
	Audit the auditor.	00:02:18
	And I know it's on the agenda, but.	00:02:21
	In the question in that way and I just.	00:02:24
	Whoa. And how independent is it?	00:02:27
	Is that hiring process?	00:02:31
	When there was number community involved in that, or at least what I can find out, there was number community involved, it was.	00:02:34
	It was.	00:02:40
	Sharing it.	00:02:42
	Apparently that it was.	00:02:43
	Only the Council that was involved in that. So those are just my questions because it was just.	00:02:45
	I'm a little fabricated.	00:02:50
	To see that we're.	00:02:52
	Hiring an auditor.	00:02:54
	To audit the auditor.	00:02:55
	And that is being done supposedly for.	00:02:57
	Purportedly.	00:03:01
	Independently.	00:03:02
	But it doesn't seem that the hiring or the RFP has been independent so.	00:03:05
	I hope I made sense. Thanks.	00:03:09
	All right. Thanks for your.	00:03:13
	This is my first time.	00:03:18
	I'm Kathleen Klassen from Parkside, and I just wanted to say thank you to the city because a couple weeks ago.	00:03:20
	As I walk around the neighborhood.	00:03:26
	Which I don't remember the name of the neighborhood, but I call it the Barky Dogs, which is just right here that pack.	00:03:28
	And I noticed this. Cute.	00:03:35
	Peter Rabbit story as you progress either direction.	00:03:37
	And I loved it.	00:03:42
	And I thought, what a lovely touch. And I'm not sure exactly which organization within the city did it.	00:03:44
	But I just want to share my.	00:03:49
	Gratitude. It was kind of fun.	00:03:51
	And if I had my nieces and nephews.	00:03:53
	That would be so much fun to read.	00:03:55
	The story of Peter Rabbit as we continued on that.	00:03:57
	And I would love it if we could see more of that. I think that would be great.	00:04:00
	No, you're fine.	00:04:04
	Thank you.	00:04:07
	Any other comments?	00:04:09
	All right, we're going to go ahead and click.	00:04:11
	Our public comments.	00:04:13
	Thank you for your comments, Kathleen and Karen. It looks like your topic of discussion is on the agenda, so we'll address it	00:04:15
	then.	00:04:18
	We'll move on to mayor and council member reports.	00:04:23
	This is we're going to take 3 minutes each.	00:04:27
	And just give brief updates so we can keep moving through our meet our minutes.	00:04:30
	Our meeting? Excuse me.	00:04:35
	If anybody has anything that you would like to share in 3 minutes.	00:04:37
	Please.	00:04:42
	Go ahead and send.	00:04:43
	I'm just going to share if I can go first.	00:04:44
	Ballots dropped. I got my ballot today in the mail and I just hope everyone.	00:04:47
	Takes the time to research the candidates and vote.	00:04:51
	So, umm.	00:04:55
	It's really exciting.	00:04:56
	We have 8 candidates and they have all been.	00:04:57
	Working on her. Awesome thank you.	00:05:00
	Anyone else?	00:05:04
	OK.	00:05:07
	OK, go ahead, Jake.	00:05:08
	I am grateful for the state laws of grammar.	00:05:12
	And the ability to comply with that.	00:05:17
	I recently have been grammar.	00:05:21
	Grammar. How do you say that?	00:05:24
	By a citizen I usually don't agree with.	00:05:28
	But I spent a lot of time compiling all of the text messages.	00:05:31
	That I have had between the New York Times and the Salt Lake Tribune.	00:05:35
	And the.	00:05:39
	Contents of those.	00:05:41
	Are directed towards.	00:05:43
	The three individuals that are responsible for doing the grammar.	00:05:45
	Namely, our city manager.	00:05:49
	City attorney and clerk.	00:05:51
	Under state law and statute.	00:05:54
	They are responsible.	00:05:57
	To oversee that process.	00:05:58
	And I believe that there's a conflict of interest.	00:06:01
	I don't know how to oversee that process.	00:06:04
	But on June, over a month ago, when it was supposed to be fulfilled.	00:06:07
	It has not.	00:06:11
	I reached out to the state of Ombudsman.	00:06:12
	And I know we're going through disagreements on.	00:06:15
	If they can be shared in PDF.	00:06:18
	Version or.	00:06:20
	Compiled or not compiled?	00:06:24
	Regardless, they're all there, and I spoke with Monica again after.	00:06:26
	The e-mail exchange about an hour ago.	00:06:31
	But I would like the Council to take steps.	00:06:34
	To helping.	00:06:37
	Get that published so that I am in compliance with.	00:06:39
	Getting those documents.	00:06:44
	Placed so I don't know how to overcome that, but I think that the Council should be aware and disclosed of that effort.	00:06:45
	I don't know how to overcome that because it doesn't.	00:06:52
	In speaking with the state, there is no statute.	00:06:54
	On conflicts of interest.	00:06:57
	So I'm not sure 100% what you're asking. You want what you want to do.	00:07:02
	I don't know either.	00:07:06
	I'm these should have.	00:07:07
	Compiled all of the text messages and PowerPoints.	00:07:10
	Two or three PowerPoints and text messages between me and Leah Larson of the Salt Lake Tribune.	00:07:14
	They were intermingled.	00:07:19
	You know, chronologically, if you could imagine over a year's time.	00:07:22
	There's a text message with everything.	00:07:26
	So I just took screenshots.	00:07:29
	It's really hard actually. I wish.	00:07:31
	Apple would make it so much easier. You just download and.	00:07:33
	You have to take screenshots and.	00:07:37
	100 it's over 100 pages.	00:07:39
	So umm, you grab one and you're like, did I send this one or not? So you're like.	00:07:42
	OK, I have this one and then you have the next and you.	00:07:48
	I mistakenly did an ad.	00:07:51
	The line like the line showing the next line.	00:07:54
	So I had to go back and add.	00:07:57
	Like duplicate it so that this one. So that's ending here.	00:07:59
	Adding there so you can see.	00:08:04
	It's in its entirety, so I submitted that over.	00:08:06
	But it was organized in a way that.	00:08:09
	We had these text messages. Oh.	00:08:12
	And then we hit the PowerPoint. So I had the PowerPoint.	00:08:15
	And then chronologically, OK, then we have these text messages and then the PowerPoint.	00:08:17
	And we are.	00:08:22
	Debating on.	00:08:22
	Can this be sent over in one file?	00:08:24
	Or can it be?	00:08:28
	Can the headers of the PowerPoint be included on it or not?	00:08:31
	And I'm like I can't change the PowerPoints that I shared with via Zoom, I can just.	00:08:35
	Give you what the PowerPoint is.	00:08:40
	And so I I.	00:08:43
	I spoke with the state and they're like, you can't alter state law, you can't alter the PowerPoints, you know the documents if	00:08:44
	that's what you provided.	00:08:48
	And so today I.	00:08:52
	I uh.	00:08:54
	Separated the PowerPoints, so these are the PowerPoints.	00:08:56
	And these are the.	00:08:59
	Umm, text messages.	00:09:02
	So I think we've resolved everything now.	00:09:05
	But I just want to make I just we are one month over.	00:09:07
	The time frame and I got on the phone after I got.	00:09:11
	Tony's e-mail and I said oh, and they said.	00:09:14
	Well, we yeah, it's very customary to get sent over on one file and I've broken it down and not compiled it.	00:09:18
	As they requested. I just think that because.	00:09:24
	Of the focus.	00:09:28
	The three people that are conducting the grammar are the ones.	00:09:29
	Putting the rules so it's like.	00:09:34
	Do we get in an outside city? Do we contact dorm like when there's a?	00:09:36
	Firing of a.	00:09:39
	You know, police officer, they don't conduct the.	00:09:41
	Investigation themselves, they contact an outside.	00:09:43
	Government entity to do that.	00:09:47
	So do we reach out to Linden and say hey?	00:09:48
	We have a crazy.	00:09:52
	Situation here.	00:09:53
	Umm, so.	00:09:56
	Yeah, because the contacts are not.	00:09:58
	Great on all three officers.	00:09:59
	In my opinion.	00:10:02
	Let me provide a little bit of context.	00:10:08
	And then I can answer.	00:10:10
	Councilmember Holdaway's question directly and then I think there's.	00:10:12
	Probably.	00:10:16
	Something for the Council to intervene, or two.	00:10:17
	Act on this not during the meeting today, because it's not on the agenda, but.	00:10:21
	At a future meeting.	00:10:25
	The grandma request is from a citizen or resident of the city. It requests the individual requested.	00:10:27
	Records.	00:10:35
	Of communication between Councilmember Holdaway and.	00:10:36
	A reporter from the Salt Lake Tribune and from the New York Times.	00:10:40
	There were some records provided by council member Holdaway.	00:10:44
	That appeared to have.	00:10:48
	Editorialized comments. He's clarified that that was a.	00:10:51
	PowerPoint presentation or something similar that he shared with the reporter and so.	00:10:55
	If you've separated that out and provided it.	00:11:00
	There were.	00:11:03
	Initially provided some text messages, but it wasn't clear whether it was the entire conversation and so Tony had asked.	00:11:04
	Council member Holdaway to put.	00:11:12
	Usually when we gather text messages, what we'll do is take a screenshot and then you include on the next screen shot.	00:11:14
	The message from the one prior so that you can see the string.	00:11:20
	Carry through. I know it's a complete record.	00:11:25
	I think they may still be waiting on the e-mail.	00:11:27
	Communication between you and.	00:11:30
	The reporter so.	00:11:33
	Tony will follow up with you on that.	00:11:35
	The when we.	00:11:37
	When you indicated, you could call it the.	00:11:39
	The state records on both women.	00:11:42
	We phoned her to ask about that conversation.	00:11:44
	I'll simply say.	00:11:48
	Now for this meeting that.	00:11:49
	What you represented the meeting to be.	00:11:51
	For your communication with her to be and what?	00:11:53
	She told us it was.	00:11:56
	And so.	00:11:59
	There's a question mark there, but I don't know that that limits.	00:12:02
	The grammar response to your question about whether.	00:12:05
	I advise Pam and Tony.	00:12:09
	Pam and Tony are the records officers for the city. It's their responsibility.	00:12:11
	Respond to Grandma requests.	00:12:17
	And uh.	00:12:19
	My understanding is that they have responded to the resident with what they had at the time.	00:12:20
	And then indicated that they had reached out to you to ask for.	00:12:26
	The additional information that was missing.	00:12:30
	Now, there's a piece of this that you didn't mention that is a concern to me and it's that.	00:12:33
	When we normally get grammar requests for records.	00:12:38
	The practice of Pam and Tony is to sit down with the person from whom the records are requested.	00:12:43
	And then gather.	00:12:49
	The records with them.	00:12:51
	That way if they end up.	00:12:52
	Being before the state.	00:12:54
	Formerly the state records committee. Now it's a hearing officer.	00:12:56
	But if they're before a hearing officer and asked how did you conduct the search for the records?	00:12:59
	Then you have some redundancy in that search.	00:13:04
	We don't have that redundancy in the search you.	00:13:07
	Conducted it yourself so we have your word.	00:13:10
	That you've conducted a full and complete search and nothing more.	00:13:13
	From my vantage.	00:13:17
	Pam and Tony have simply been.	00:13:19
	We're trying to work with you to get the complete record and it's been difficult.	00:13:21
	To get that.	00:13:26
	So in every grandma that I've ever done with this city and I verified this with the employees like.	00:13:27
	Take my card or Chris Todd or.	00:13:34
	Umm, or George?	00:13:37
	Pam never sat down with him ever to get the record when they did the hearing with.	00:13:40
	Sean Herring And that's on the record.	00:13:44
	In the state hearings.	00:13:47
	So that has never happened before as a precedent.	00:13:48
	#2.	00:13:52
	All of the problems that you're describing on.	00:13:53
	The text messages were solved.	00:13:56
	Back in the time frame.	00:13:59
	That we should have now not.	00:14:02
	Disparaging any elected official and.	00:14:04
	Saying that the three individuals are.	00:14:08
	Delaying purposely. What I'm saying is, is that.	00:14:11
	If over the last six weeks it was disclosed that the three individuals that the.	00:14:16
	Purpose is are over this.	00:14:21
	And we're going back and forth and it's not an independent thing.	00:14:23
	Person that the taste doesn't go.	00:14:27
	They would need to disclose so that's why I was bringing it to the.	00:14:30
	Body here.	00:14:32
	On the additional record there was.	00:14:35
	A claim that I.	00:14:38
	Record my.	00:14:40
	Interviews with The Salt Lake Tribune or New York Times.	00:14:42
	Which I've never recorded any zoom meetings with them. I do record my meetings with city staff.	00:14:45
	And with.	00:14:51
	I think I've disclosed the reasons why.	00:14:53
	But with a reporter, I haven't and.	00:14:55
	I don't know why that accusations made or just.	00:14:57
	So I think you're confusing a question about.	00:15:00
	The existence of records with an accusation.	00:15:04
	Tony was asking. Did you?	00:15:06
	Record those meetings and if so.	00:15:09
	Then we would have an obligation to provide those.	00:15:11
	Right, don't understand yet, but.	00:15:14
	But again, it's you you hadn't until.	00:15:16
	Right now, this moment.	00:15:18
	Confirmed to him that there were no recordings and so yeah, I've emailed him back that there isn't but like.	00:15:20
	If he had that.	00:15:26
	Question six weeks ago to fulfill at the time they should have asked that.	00:15:27
	Question if I had a recording right so.	00:15:31
	But they didn't. It was.	00:15:35
	An hour ago.	00:15:36
	And what I'm saying is it just keeps delaying.	00:15:37
	And it gets to a point where it's like, I know this isn't great information to get out there, but.	00:15:41
	If someone is requesting of assistance, then yeah.	00:15:45
	It I know it doesn't.	00:15:48
	And I've been pushing.	00:15:50
	Like guys, this has to get out so.	00:15:52
	I I don't think that's an accurate characterization. I'll just note that, but.	00:15:56
	I don't know that it benefits anybody that.	00:16:01
	Talk about that art.	00:16:03
	Pam and Tony's communication to you has been in writing.	00:16:05
	And so there's an e-mail record of that exchange and people can.	00:16:08
	What they?	00:16:12
	They did respond to the request.	00:16:14
	I would like the information that was available at that time.	00:16:17
	I did see an e-mail come through from you just minutes before this meeting.	00:16:21
	With the.	00:16:25
	Text messages that Tony has been asking you for.	00:16:26
	I don't believe he had them in that format until that time.	00:16:30
	So yeah, I split them up, I mean.	00:16:33
	Pardon me, I'm not finished, OK? He asked me before this meeting.	00:16:35
	What he should do with the additional information you.	00:16:39
	Provided and.	00:16:42
	My instructions to him were to go through it like you, wouldn't he?	00:16:44
	Records requests see if there's private or protected or.	00:16:48
	Controlled information in the record.	00:16:52
	I don't heal.	00:16:54
	He'll need to do that over the next day or two and then.	00:16:55
	He can supplement.	00:16:58
	The response with.	00:16:59
	What you provided today.	00:17:00
	I would just say that if there's a disagreement.	00:17:02
	I would like the.	00:17:05
	The body here to say who is the independent arbiter since the state ombudsman? Monica offered.	00:17:08
	And we've had.	00:17:14
	Disagreements of.	00:17:15
	What's happened in that conversation or not? Because I called Monica right after and I said.	00:17:17
	This is what we talked about.	00:17:21
	And she confirmed again, yeah, that's.	00:17:23
	That's it, there's.	00:17:25
	We don't need to.	00:17:27
	There's no state code saying that we need to.	00:17:29
	Break them up into two files. You just have to provide everything.	00:17:31
	And so I actually went above and beyond and provided them in.	00:17:35
	In chronological order.	00:17:38
	Which I don't really have to, but.	00:17:42
	But anyway, I just think that if there is a disagreement we schedule a meeting and I don't mind a threat or anyone else.	00:17:44
	Someone an independent?	00:17:50
	And the state ombudsman?	00:17:52
	Could help facilitate so we get these records out to the citizens that want them.	00:17:55
	And again, Tony and Pam have communicated with you in writing on this. There hasn't been phone calls. The reason they didn't do it	00:17:59
	in phone calls was so nobody could twist words.	00:18:04
	Right, they can.	00:18:08
	Put together that communication provided to the Council, I think it would be good for the Council to see.	00:18:10
	And in our conversation with the State record ombudsman, she was unequivocal.	00:18:14
	That it is the records officer.	00:18:20
	That has the obligation to gather records.	00:18:23
	And to establish.	00:18:26
	Protocols for how they gather records.	00:18:28
	And that falls on Pam's shoulders.	00:18:31
	And she and Tony were very clear.	00:18:34
	From my advantage in their communication to you of what they were asking for and looking for. And it wasn't in the form of an	00:18:36
	accusation at all. It was.	00:18:40
	Do you have this type of record if?	00:18:44
	So provided in that format.	00:18:46
	Print it and that was it.	00:18:49
	And it was the.	00:18:51
	Difficult to get that information from you and.	00:18:53
	The Council is welcome to look at that.	00:18:56
	As for whether Monica should intervene for Pam and her duty?	00:18:59
	Monica was really clear with us that that wasn't her role, that it was Pam's role as directors officer and that.	00:19:04
	She's in her position.	00:19:10
	When?	00:19:12
	Appeals and then mediations that relate to appeals and then she has a.	00:19:13
	Guidance function.	00:19:18
	And a policy function, but.	00:19:19
	Her function is not.	00:19:22
	To substitute her judgment for that of the records officer, and that was her communication to us.	00:19:24
	So I think what we should do here then is we'll receive the records that you mentioned for the Council.	00:19:29
	Then we'll review your request, Jake.	00:19:35
	And then we can have this discussion.	00:19:37
	Further and decide if there's something that the body can intervene on.	00:19:40
	Brett or Marty?	00:19:44
	Marty, you already went right. Brett or Sarah, was there anything else that you wanted to add before I move on to the next?	00:19:46
	Item.	00:19:54
	My comments are on the agenda, so unless you want me to do this now, I.	00:19:54
	No, Sarah, did you have anything?	00:19:58
	OK, we're going to move on to the.	00:20:05
	Consent agenda. I need a motion.	00:20:07
	I just need to make a disclosure.	00:20:09
	OK, umm.	00:20:11
	With seven point.	00:20:12
	Three, I just want to disclose that.	00:20:15
	With my job at the county and Human Services.	00:20:18
	I don't directly work with communities that care, but I work with.	00:20:21
	Department. The department that does.	00:20:24
	I just needed to make that public knowledge. I don't think there's any conflict with me voting it in. It's a really cool program.	00:20:26
	Yeah, I don't. I don't.	00:20:33
	Think so, Jamie, is there anything?	00:20:35
	No, no recusals required.	00:20:38
	She just wanted to make that disclosure so it was clear to everybody what her.	00:20:40
	Professional law was OK, there's no conflict under this.	00:20:44
	Thank you, Marty, for making that.	00:20:48
	With that I need a motion.	00:20:50
	I.	00:20:52
	And approve the consent items as presented.	00:20:54
	All right, can I get a second?	00:20:56
	Second. Second by Sarah, first by Marty.	00:20:59
	And.	00:21:03
	We'll do this by roll call.	00:21:04
	Jake No.	00:21:05
	I am Marty.	00:21:08
	Sarah.	00:21:10
	All right.	00:21:11
	We'll go ahead to our.	00:21:14
	Public hearing.	00:21:17
	This is item.	00:21:18
	9.1 where we'll be talking about.	00:21:19
	The adoption of the working fiscal year.	00:21:22
	20/25/2026.	00:21:25
	Budget after amendment.	00:21:27
	#1 Resolution 2025-40.	00:21:29
	And I'm actually going to have.	00:21:32
	Brett lead out on this since we.	00:21:34
	Tasked you with this effort.	00:21:36
	If you want to go ahead and start.	00:21:38
	Sure. So the the reason that we have the.	00:21:42
	The budget amendment coming in is that.	00:21:48
	Over the last.	00:21:51
	Year and a half.	00:21:53
	Two years the city's been under a lot, awful lot of scrutiny and accusation over.	00:21:54
	Over its finances.	00:22:02
	And in terms of?	00:22:04
	Fraud, waste and abuse.	00:22:07
	And the clear path forward.	00:22:08
	Through that.	00:22:11
	Is to obtain a fully independent evaluation.	00:22:12
	Of the city's finances from a third party auditor.	00:22:18
	Or or accounting firm.	00:22:21
	Who will look specifically for?	00:22:23
	Fraud. Waste of abuse.	00:22:26
	In umm to.	00:22:28
	I believe it's appropriate at this time to answer Karen's question.	00:22:32
	The purpose of this is.	00:22:36
	Not to audit the auditor.	00:22:39
	So the audit that was provided by the state previously.	00:22:40
	We intend to be fully compliant with.	00:22:44
	And in some of those items already are.	00:22:46
	There is no intention to try and revisit any of that.	00:22:50
	This is specifically to look for areas where.	00:22:54
	There might be fraud, waste and abuse.	00:22:59
	It is to.	00:23:01
	Get recommendations from a third party firm on.	00:23:03
	Policy where areas where we might be able to improve as a city.	00:23:06
	So the current feeling is that we will look for.	00:23:10
	Look at the last two years.	00:23:16
	And in those two years, we'll be looking at the.	00:23:18
	The policies in place and having the firm go through.	00:23:24
	Every transaction.	00:23:28
	According to the.	00:23:29
	Target areas.	00:23:31
	And they're, we're open to additional recommendations of areas to look at, but we've certainly covered all of the areas that	00:23:33
	Councilmember Holdaway has.	00:23:37
	Raised in the past.	00:23:42
	We want to make sure that we come out the other side of it.	00:23:43
	With there being no question.	00:23:46
	About uh.	00:23:48
	The the state of the city in terms of Broadway's and abuse.	00:23:49
	What that what that means in order to make sure that we have a fully independent.	00:23:53
	Audit is that.	00:24:00
	The the cost goes up a little bit because we have to find a, we have to put out an RFP.	00:24:02
	We have to allow for firms to respond to that.	00:24:07
	That.	00:24:11
	We need to select a firm that is above reproach.	00:24:14
	Right, we cannot allow.	00:24:17
	The the city or the council to select a firm?	00:24:20
	That someone could say, well, the city is biased to me.	00:24:23
	Confirm that they can bully. No, we have to.	00:24:26
	Somebody who is fully independent.	00:24:28
	And it is.	00:24:30
	Again above.	00:24:32
	So from from that perspective.	00:24:34
	That's where we are looking at.	00:24:37
	A budget amendment to allocate funds to do that.	00:24:39
	And then we also have an RFP.	00:24:43
	Which which again is included in the agenda packet.	00:24:47
	For for all to look at.	00:24:50
	And we will go through a full.	00:24:51
	Process in terms of selecting a firm for the.	00:24:54
	To conduct the.	00:24:58
	The Financial Review.	00:25:01
	All right. Are there any questions?	00:25:03
	Yes, let's open.	00:25:07
	Can I get a motion to open the public hearing?	00:25:09
	So moved, can I get a second?	00:25:15
	Second, all in favor?	00:25:18
	Aye.	00:25:20
	All right. Are there any questions from the public?	00:25:21
	Come on up.	00:25:24
	Our comments.	00:25:27
	I want to thank the Council for hearing me on this.	00:25:33
	David Larae.	00:25:37
	So my question has to do with the definitions of fraud, waste and abuse that you'll be using in the audit.	00:25:41
	Obviously, you know you.	00:25:48
	I think we have some. There's some general definitions, but specifically I'm sure you'll have some.	00:25:49
	Criteria and I was wondering if you would share those with us so we might be able to better understand the limits of the scope of.	00:25:54
	Review that you plan.	00:26:00
	Thank you.	00:26:01
	Thank you.	00:26:03
	Karen Cornell, Sevilla's.	00:26:22
	My question is.	00:26:24
	With respect to the $104,000?	00:26:26
	We sat here.	00:26:29
	About 13 or 14 months ago and went over the.	00:26:31
	To have a tax increase in the city of Vineyard because there was number room in the budget for anything.	00:26:35
	And the priority was that we could pay the firefighters, which?	00:26:42
	Is not a luxury.	00:26:46
	It really is.	00:26:47
	And I understand that.	00:26:49
	And we?	00:26:51
	Members of the council to look.	00:26:54
	With an eye.	00:26:56
	To anything that could be reduced, anything that could.	00:26:57
	We're gone so that we.	00:27:01
	Could have a kinder, gentler approach.	00:27:05
	With the citizens of Vineyard and not have to increase.	00:27:07
	Their taxes.	00:27:10
	Now I see that there's $104,000 out there.	00:27:12
	That we can access.	00:27:16
	For what may or may not.	00:27:18
	Seem to be pretended in some cases.	00:27:20
	But I'm just curious how we are always able to pull this money out.	00:27:23
	We pull money out for.	00:27:29
	Many of the settlements that we have to make behind closed doors because perhaps the contracts weren't fully.	00:27:30
	Fully vetted before or because the interests of this.	00:27:37
	The residence wasn't the priority, but the interests of the developer was.	00:27:41
	And I see that there's money there.	00:27:45
	But yet we had to put.	00:27:48
	So much on the back of the taxpayers.	00:27:50
	And just to.	00:27:52
	Oh, and I had two phone calls today from people from my neighborhood, and you know, my neighborhood is retired people.	00:27:54
	Who are very upset, not because a vineyard is raising their taxes again, but taxes are going up again.	00:28:02
	Because of two schools being built in the Alpine School District.	00:28:08
	And I feel like we are not.	00:28:11
	Being the greatest, best stewards.	00:28:14
	Or you are not being the best stewards.	00:28:17
	Of our taxpayer dollar.	00:28:19
	And I don't know where.	00:28:21
	I can look in the budget.	00:28:24
	To find these hidden $104,000 that we have.	00:28:25
	When somebody decides that we need it and so.	00:28:29
	It's just something that has been on my mind today because of the phone calls that I have gotten, so thank you.	00:28:32
	Are there any other?	00:28:49
	Comments.	00:28:50
	OK. I'm going to ask for a motion to close the public hearing.	00:28:53
	So moved. Thank you.	00:28:57
	Marty, can I get a second?	00:28:59
	Second. Second by.	00:29:02
	All in favor.	00:29:04
	Aye, aye.	00:29:05
	Any opposed?	00:29:08
	All right, let's go ahead and have.	00:29:10
	Our discussion, is there any clarity that you guys are looking for, any questions that you have?	00:29:13
	One other thought that I that I would add in.	00:29:21
	Why? Because I think there's a lot of questions about why.	00:29:24
	Is that we're in a state where.	00:29:28
	Trust is low.	00:29:30
	And so we need to find a way to.	00:29:32
	Repair that and improve it.	00:29:36
	And that doesn't come for free.	00:29:38
	I think the city and council members.	00:29:42
	Have done a lot of work.	00:29:44
	To try and repair.	00:29:46
	Trust.	00:29:48
	I think Councilman Holdaway has done a lot of work to try and repair trust. I think that.	00:29:49
	The audit that we got.	00:29:53
	Actually, uh.	00:29:55
	Sound things that are important, not just a vineyard, but to the entire state.	00:29:57
	And so these are all steps that we need to take to rebuild that trust and.	00:30:01
	It's a necessary thing that we have to do.	00:30:05
	In order to.	00:30:09
	Built that trust.	00:30:10
	Jake, do you have any comments?	00:30:14
	Yeah, umm.	00:30:16
	Let me start at the beginning.	00:30:18
	I like the olive branch that Brett has extended.	00:30:24
	And I appreciate his integrity.	00:30:28
	I felt like he's always been.	00:30:33
	A straight shooter.	00:30:35
	That's how you appreciate.	00:30:38
	I want to feel good about supporting an audit and I don't.	00:30:42
	For a variety of reasons.	00:30:46
	When the.	00:30:50
	State auditor came out.	00:30:52
	It lost a lot of trust that this body just couldn't and still hasn't at this point as a group.	00:30:56
	With the state auditor allowed them to come and.	00:31:02
	Have citizens witness.	00:31:04
	And and listen to that.	00:31:07
	Together, I think.	00:31:09
	Getting different versions out of the state auditor. I'm sorry, I don't understand. Can you clarify what you mean?	00:31:11
	When when we two weeks before the public audit came out, we were all invited if we had any questions, concerns or.	00:31:18
	To meet with them.	00:31:25
	That is usually done as a body, but also.	00:31:27
	Or it could be done as a body and it.	00:31:29
	Gained trust, especially if that's what we're trying to accomplish. Are you referring to the e-mail that went to the staff that	00:31:31
	work in the project that you guys were copied in on that tells them if you have anything to the state audit that told us two weeks	00:31:37
	before the state audit of their findings?	00:31:42
	And in there that was to staff and management, we were copied in.	00:31:49
	Yes.	00:31:52
	That was a letter just for clarity, so.	00:31:56
	For the discussion that you're having, that is a letter that.	00:32:00
	Goes to the team that's working on it and asks for.	00:32:04
	A response back from the team that was working on it by the time.	00:32:08
	And I think if it's to gain trust, meaning like.	00:32:12
	You would like 2 separate bodies, meaning probably my side of the Ledger and yours to do it together to.	00:32:15
	Gain common ground.	00:32:21
	You've got to do that together in a bipartisan.	00:32:23
	Way right and then I think.	00:32:27
	I'm sorry, I don't know what you're saying by bipartisan way.	00:32:29
	I think that you responding.	00:32:33
	To the findings by yourself instead of as an entire group.	00:32:35
	And actually listening together to the findings could have.	00:32:40
	Allowed us to get on the same page and vote.	00:32:44
	How we wanted to respond. I didn't vote you.	00:32:47
	We didn't respond back as a.	00:32:50
	Body you were used.	00:32:51
	You responded back by yourself.	00:32:53
	So from my recollection, just.	00:32:55
	So we can have this conversation.	00:32:57
	I think you were the first person to respond back. That said, you didn't have any comments back on it.	00:33:00
	Then I saw other council members respond back.	00:33:04
	Now, if you're referring to my sign.	00:33:07
	The auditor requires that.	00:33:09
	No, I, I, I was very clear e-mail with Eric and then the meeting with signs the letter and that is the letter that I was able to	00:33:11
	sign from the responses back from the team that worked on it as.	00:33:16
	If we continue to get different versions.	00:33:24
	David, Larry was in the meeting where we said are we going to get together? And he was very clear, Eric.	00:33:27
	That the mayor would be responding by by yourself.	00:33:32
	The body did that. That is public record and so it is available. The council can go back and right and what I'm saying is that	00:33:35
	like it.	00:33:38
	If we want to work as a body to restore trust, that citizens want us to see us working together.	00:33:42
	And I want to start to get to that.	00:33:49
	To that level, right? Like I'm.	00:33:52
	Not coming in to argue, I'm coming to find common ground.	00:33:54
	But even then, like.	00:33:58
	Because of that.	00:33:59
	The article in the.	00:34:01
	Daily Herald.	00:34:04
	Was that we are not going to hold the.	00:34:05
	TEC meetings that we're going to continue with the reports.	00:34:10
	I've now heard from the state auditor today that.	00:34:14
	Seth that you met?	00:34:16
	Set up and clear that up and said no, that that isn't true.	00:34:18
	So it kind of gives them echo.	00:34:22
	You know, like an echo response and it goes.	00:34:24
	OK, Eric said this, but then this actually happened.	00:34:26
	Right. And that that.	00:34:29
	And I want to make sure it's not Brett because I want to support the audit.	00:34:31
	Because I believe Brett is working in.	00:34:35
	Good faith.	00:34:37
	So that's the first thing is that.	00:34:38
	There's a few discrep.	00:34:39
	When I first heard the audit, I was like, OK, if it's going to be an independent audit.	00:34:42
	That's why I voted for it two weeks ago.	00:34:46
	I didn't really understand the scope.	00:34:48
	I've never done.	00:34:50
	And this type of audit with this creative detail, but I know that they are tasked to advise us this council, we can call it	00:34:51
	anytime.	00:34:54
	And so.	00:34:58
	My first thing was I would like to get in a meeting with.	00:35:00
	Brett and.	00:35:03
	Seth and the two of us just.	00:35:04
	This is what Brett's thinking this is.	00:35:07
	This is he's the head of it with Sarah.	00:35:09
	Walk me through.	00:35:12
	But talk about it.	00:35:14
	So I can just listen in and hear.	00:35:15
	And a day later I get a long e-mail from Eric as to we are not going to include the state auditor, it would be inappropriate and I	00:35:18
	can copy that entire e-mail.	00:35:22
	And it was.	00:35:28
	We're not going to include the state auditor in helping me.	00:35:29
	Like me, understand my role, we're going to deny.	00:35:32
	You know Friday, me and Brett can't get in there and.	00:35:35
	This is supposed to be an independent audit.	00:35:39
	Of our staff.	00:35:42
	And an e-mail on line 4 it says.	00:35:44
	For this reason, I agree and support the assignment recently given to Council Member Clawson to organize a City Council lead	00:35:49
	audit.	00:35:53
	Of the city's finances.	00:35:57
	And it was like.	00:35:59
	I thought this was an independent third party and so I.	00:36:01
	Sent an e-mail back and said if I can't meet with the state auditor with.	00:36:04
	I'm coming to the table to say.	00:36:08
	I want to work with you.	00:36:11
	And we can have that meeting on Friday, Then what? What's the scope?	00:36:13
	So then I didn't hear anything back.	00:36:17
	From that.	00:36:19
	Thursday or Wednesday?	00:36:20
	And then?	00:36:22
	I wasn't told about the scope or price.	00:36:23
	And obviously.	00:36:26
	I saw the meaning to this agenda and I saw the price tag for $104,000.	00:36:28
	So, umm.	00:36:35
	When I had spoken with the state auditor, it was like 10 to 20 grand of like.	00:36:38
	Ideas of what they thought they could do.	00:36:42
	Like different things.	00:36:44
	But again, it was.	00:36:45
	What I got from the meeting was that we were auditing the auditor.	00:36:48
	That's all I that's all I got.	00:36:52
	So.	00:36:54
	So when?	00:36:56
	So when?	00:36:58
	I literally a couple of hours ago.	00:37:00
	Who told you that we were auditing the auditor?	00:37:02
	I've never, I've never heard that.	00:37:05
	I took from the meeting on.	00:37:07
	The.	00:37:10
	The open council meeting that because we were audited, we needed to go in and look at what the auditor did.	00:37:11
	And see his fine see their findings.	00:37:17
	And understand it and get under it and I was like OK so.	00:37:20
	I don't even think that's accurate. I think all of us agreed.	00:37:24
	In their findings.	00:37:27
	And we voted.	00:37:28
	Together that we agreed with their findings and that we were going to implement what they suggested.	00:37:29
	So there.	00:37:34
	There was no argument.	00:37:35
	So what's the problem with allowing the state auditor to counsel with me and Brett, I think.	00:37:36
	I don't think they're. I don't think there is.	00:37:42
	There's not. Hold on. Let's let's let Jake finish and then and then I'll give each of you the time back so we don't have a back	00:37:43
	and forth. Rather you can.	00:37:48
	Why doesn't the Friday meeting happen?	00:37:52
	Are you done with your plans? They can respond back to starting like why?	00:37:56
	Why the?	00:38:00
	Why we can't?	00:38:01
	Why the long it?	00:38:03
	Changing this from an independent and removing.	00:38:05
	Our finance.	00:38:08
	You know, are because there's there's finance, there's city manager and there's attorneys. There's three things, right?	00:38:10
	So an independent would be removing these three things.	00:38:15
	And immediately when I say, OK, we're going to remove these three things, these three.	00:38:18
	Individuals or you know, we're gonna.	00:38:22
	Independently out of the city.	00:38:24
	I get an e-mail from one of those people saying.	00:38:25
	Do not.	00:38:28
	Do not do this and that we're influencing me us on how the audit is and I'm like.	00:38:29
	If you guys are going to be influencing it.	00:38:34
	Like I'm not gonna like, I would definitely get advice. I'd walk in there and go, hey.	00:38:37
	This looks like we're coming to the table the city is and we want to do an audit.	00:38:42
	You've already done an extensive.	00:38:46
	Brett has some ideas and let Brett talk to him and then.	00:38:49
	Hear their advice and we both come together and I go, hey, I see the parameters of what you're trying to do.	00:38:53
	And we give the price tag and we put out a kumbaya meeting.	00:38:58
	And then I, you know, and so I'm just getting conflicting.	00:39:02
	And I can tell you.	00:39:06
	You know David's in my meeting.	00:39:07
	If he's asleep right now so I don't know but.	00:39:09
	Umm, but like I.	00:39:12
	I didn't. When I met on Monday, Eric didn't tell me that the auditor was now.	00:39:13
	That you'd met with him alone.	00:39:18
	And I'm like.	00:39:20
	So then I called him today and I said OK, I've.	00:39:21
	What are we Should this cost 104,000?	00:39:23
	And he was like, well, what are they doing? And I'm like.	00:39:27
	Well, I don't really know what they're doing.	00:39:29
	I don't know the scope.	00:39:31
	And I was like.	00:39:32
	So I would like to.	00:39:35
	Mayor, can I just clarify?	00:39:37
	I'm gonna let him finish. I'm gonna give you a chance to clarify that something happened.	00:39:39
	When I'm not there.	00:39:44
	Right.	00:39:45
	What else do you have? Because then I'm going to pass the time so we can move through this.	00:39:48
	Because I just want to say like, I'm there to me.	00:39:52
	And I'm asking for a meeting and then it's like we can't have the meeting and then the meeting happens without me.	00:39:55
	You know, so it's like.	00:40:00
	But I don't think it's you back acting in bad faith.	00:40:01
	Because it's like.	00:40:04
	I don't know, it's just it's frustrating that I get conflicting.	00:40:06
	And information and I.	00:40:10
	I wish I would just.	00:40:12
	Hey, Jake, We'll still meet with the auditor. We'll.	00:40:13
	We'll walk through it. We're trying to.	00:40:15
	Because this is a very in depth thing.	00:40:17
	The second thing that I would say is and then to your point.	00:40:19
	We can. So in the National League of Cities, there's 36,000 cities in America.	00:40:22
	I get to go to that often.	00:40:28
	Every single time for 18 years.	00:40:29
	I get to go.	00:40:32
	When you see one city in America, you will hear the word.	00:40:33
	Waste and abuse.	00:40:37
	Like crazy because.	00:40:38
	Where on our side I will say.	00:40:41
	Survey software costs 1000 and.	00:40:43
	Others at 76.	00:40:45
	Others will say travel outside of the county or inside the county only.	00:40:47
	Others will say no, you can travel throughout the state.	00:40:51
	We're even like us. We can travel around the country, our department heads and so.	00:40:54
	That in this council is going to be defined differently, and that's totally OK. That's the American dream because every single	00:40:59
	city.	00:41:02
	Is completely different.	00:41:06
	If we're going to sit down and sit down somebody and say.	00:41:08
	You know, and we're elected.	00:41:11
	To define that, we get to define.	00:41:13
	What is waste?	00:41:15
	And what is abuse?	00:41:17
	US five define that.	00:41:19
	No one else.	00:41:20
	No state does. The state will never come in and tell us what.	00:41:22
	Or sorry, don't tell us what is fraud.	00:41:25
	It will never tell us what is waist.	00:41:27
	They will never tell us what is abuse.	00:41:29
	Because that is.	00:41:31
	What is the governing that will turn over and say that and so?	00:41:33
	You know, I'm sorry, can I excuse?	00:41:36
	But I'm burying.	00:41:39
	Did we have in code of conduct that there was a certain time limit? Because this has been going on for 15 minutes now.	00:41:42
	I think we all.	00:41:48
	I will. If you don't want me to talk to her, that's fine.	00:41:49
	15 minutes. I mean, can you?	00:41:52
	No, but what I'm saying, but what I'm saying is is like.	00:41:53
	When I met with the state auditor, he was like, well.	00:41:56
	You know that's going to be really hard.	00:41:58
	Frame like what?	00:42:00
	David said like.	00:42:01
	What is waste and what is abuse?	00:42:03
	We're having an election here in November and we're going to be held accountable of what definitions those are for, like what I	00:42:05
	define it, and that it's more of a political thing is what I'm trying to help.	00:42:09
	Understand and so like.	00:42:14
	I think.	00:42:16
	For me to get on board with it, and I do want to get on board with it tonight, I'm not because I want to hold, I'd rather hold a	00:42:17
	meeting and if we need to hold a special City Council meeting on Friday.	00:42:21
	To just me and Seth.	00:42:26
	And and and David.	00:42:28
	Or, Brett, we could get together and go because $104,000 is a ton of money.	00:42:31
	But if it were the right scope.	00:42:37
	Of different things, I could get behind it because I do think the city's.	00:42:40
	I do think the citizens.	00:42:44
	You know, want it.	00:42:47
	But right now?	00:42:48
	I'm not there.	00:42:50
	So I'm done.	00:42:51
	Mayor, Yeah, please.	00:42:54
	Couple of thoughts.	00:42:58
	On that.	00:42:59
	So our last meeting was on the 9th. That's when we.	00:43:01
	Said that we would form the committee to go and looked at about how to approach this.	00:43:04
	I had a meeting on Friday the 11th.	00:43:12
	With the mayor.	00:43:15
	The city manager and finance director.	00:43:17
	Just to discuss.	00:43:19
	What? Uh.	00:43:21
	What we thought the scope.	00:43:22
	Could or should be.	00:43:23
	And that was.	00:43:27
	Not intended to be secret or private, it was more just a.	00:43:29
	OK, what kind of advice might might we think? What do we think might be included?	00:43:32
	On the morning of the 12th, so that's Saturday, I sent out an e-mail to the entire.	00:43:38
	Council that included purpose, structure, what we were trying to accomplish.	00:43:43
	In for the sake of the record, I want to read exactly what.	00:43:48
	Was in that meeting that e-mail in terms of purpose.	00:43:52
	Which was the purpose of the initiative is to proactively one identify any anomalies related to fraud, waste or abuse to identify	00:43:55
	any vulnerabilities in our policies.	00:44:00
	And operations.	00:44:05
	Three recommend changes to build public trust and ensure Government Accountability.	00:44:06
	To the highest standards.	00:44:10
	So that was the purpose as defined.	00:44:12
	At that time, on the 12th.	00:44:15
	I think that has evolved a little bit.	00:44:17
	In terms of becoming more.	00:44:19
	Detailed.	00:44:21
	The purpose of that?	00:44:25
	E-mail was to.	00:44:26
	One expressed to the entire Council and to.	00:44:30
	The Finance Committee, what we thought.	00:44:33
	The scope of this should be and to gather input.	00:44:36
	On what we thought it.	00:44:39
	It should look like so if there were any anybody on the Council who had any input that they wanted to have.	00:44:41
	I then got an e-mail from Councilman Holloway.	00:44:52
	Copying Seth.	00:44:55
	Saying that he had a call with them.	00:44:56
	And that it was a bad idea.	00:44:58
	To me, that prompted me to.	00:45:00
	Have a have a conversation with Seth myself.	00:45:02
	Where I went over.	00:45:05
	Exactly what the what the scope was.	00:45:06
	I think we're in that I.	00:45:09
	Sent notes from that meeting.	00:45:10
	To the auditor.	00:45:12
	To get confirmation on.	00:45:15
	Whether or not my understanding of.	00:45:17
	Our meeting was accurate. I got that confirmation today and immediately shared those notes with Councilman Holloway and the	00:45:20
	Council.	00:45:24
	I didn't want to do that until I had that confirmation because.	00:45:29
	If I had a misunderstanding.	00:45:32
	Then I would not want to misrepresent.	00:45:34
	What I what I was trying to do?	00:45:38
	So from from that perspective.	00:45:41
	I feel like the the effort has been there to be.	00:45:43
	Very open and transparent about what we're trying to do.	00:45:47
	I'm certainly over for my part, I'm certainly open to having.	00:45:50
	Any additional discussion about what that scope is? I think.	00:45:55
	Mr. Larae raises a great question about.	00:45:58
	Definitions of fraud, waste and abuse that.	00:46:01
	That we should discuss and make sure that we have well defined.	00:46:03
	The RFP that we'll be looking at here in a minute is.	00:46:06
	Is pretty well defined.	00:46:11
	In terms of what the what the scope is.	00:46:13
	I also believe that we leave room for.	00:46:16
	That firm to actually.	00:46:19
	Umm make any additional suggestions?	00:46:22
	So, so when we say that they we expect them to make recommendations, I think that is an opportunity for.	00:46:27
	An independent firm to actually tell us.	00:46:33
	Where we're doing a bad job.	00:46:36
	And allow us to make those changes.	00:46:38
	So I believe.	00:46:42
	In the last two weeks we've made the effort to try and.	00:46:44
	Get to a place where we can feel good about it.	00:46:48
	And I'm certainly open to continuing that effort, and I think that's why we're all sitting here tonight.	00:46:51
	I mean, tomorrow is a holiday for most people. I get to go to work.	00:46:57
	But.	00:47:01
	But I think you know.	00:47:02
	No one was super excited to come here tonight.	00:47:04
	And we're here because this is a big deal.	00:47:07
	And that's why I think we need to make sure that.	00:47:12
	Were aligned on it.	00:47:16
	Because that public trust has been broken.	00:47:17
	And we need to, we need, we do need to rebuild it.	00:47:20
	Drag, Marty.	00:47:26
	Yeah, I'd rather not have to spend $104,000.	00:47:28
	So if it takes further conversations and.	00:47:32
	I do believe that definitions are important with fraud, waste and abuse.	00:47:35
	Umm.	00:47:39
	I don't know when I met with the.	00:47:44
	Just from my perspective.	00:47:47
	And Brett, maybe you could help me out here from our conversations, but.	00:47:50
	I believe.	00:47:54
	That with everything that you've been pushing for, Jake?	00:47:56
	You've been pushing for a state audit.	00:47:59
	From my understanding.	00:48:02
	Yeah, the state audit is still continuing, right, OK.	00:48:04
	So but I believe.	00:48:06
	The state auditor's office if we were able to repair and fix our own.	00:48:08
	Issues and make sure that we're being effective in our.	00:48:14
	Evaluations of things.	00:48:17
	That would.	00:48:19
	They would be pleased by that.	00:48:20
	And they would.	00:48:22
	Be happy that we're taking care of our own problems.	00:48:23
	I don't believe that this should be paid by the whole state.	00:48:26
	As taxpayers pay.	00:48:29
	The salary and the time used up by the state auditor.	00:48:30
	If Vineyard has a problem, we need to solve it ourselves.	00:48:33
	But again, I would rather not spend $104,000.	00:48:36
	And I do think that.	00:48:39
	Your concerns with.	00:48:41
	State of our finances.	00:48:44
	Um, maybe I've misunderstood your claims from here from.	00:48:48
	The past two years, but.	00:48:51
	You have said over and over, you have cried foul that we have corruption.	00:48:53
	In our finances and if there is, if you're correct.	00:48:58
	We need to find it.	00:49:02
	That's right. So if if that is the case.	00:49:03
	If that is the case.	00:49:07
	There was a couple of the, I don't care to have it back and forth, I just wanted to make that statement and specifically.	00:49:10
	We were given Brett and I when we met with Tina Cannon and Seth Overston.	00:49:17
	They gave us some advice of things that we could do for policy changes.	00:49:21
	And, umm.	00:49:25
	I really would just love to be able to.	00:49:27
	Move. I mean I.	00:49:30
	I've never.	00:49:34
	I'm gonna stop or good.	00:49:36
	OK, OK.	00:49:38
	So a lot of things are.	00:49:46
	Yeah, running through my head right now.	00:49:48
	One is that.	00:49:51
	You express frustration because.	00:49:52
	You aren't invited to these meetings and.	00:49:55
	Brett or Erica and me alone.	00:49:58
	And yet I don't remember getting an invite to go meet with you.	00:50:00
	And stuff.	00:50:04
	For you and Leah.	00:50:06
	For you and.	00:50:07
	Tina.	00:50:10
	Provo newspaper.	00:50:12
	I don't recall any of those invites where you wanted to bring any of the rest of us.	00:50:13
	To give to give a different side of the story.	00:50:18
	So. So if you really want to be fair and balanced, then you have to look at your behavior as well.	00:50:21
	Secondly.	00:50:26
	A lot of your accusations of.	00:50:27
	Corruption from what I've seen.	00:50:30
	It hasn't been there.	00:50:33
	And the transparency where?	00:50:35
	The council previous up.	00:50:37
	Voted on things and because we weren't watching.	00:50:39
	You accuse them of.	00:50:41
	Have not been transparent. They were transparent and they were voted on.	00:50:43
	Can I commit to you to doing a zoom meeting this week?	00:50:46
	Publicly.	00:50:48
	Why not?	00:50:50
	No. OK, well, hold on. We're not going to head back and forth.	00:50:50
	Wait.	00:50:56
	It's now Sarah's turn. You have your time every time, Jake. You had your time.	00:50:57
	And as she's speaking to something very different.	00:51:02
	You are speaking about something where the two of you can sit down.	00:51:05
	I think you can understand her point.	00:51:09
	We're going to let her continue.	00:51:11
	Please, Sarah, continue.	00:51:12
	Everyone agrees.	00:51:20
	That we want our city to run well.	00:51:21
	Everyone agrees that we want transparency.	00:51:24
	I had a conversation with Tice Blake and he.	00:51:27
	I um.	00:51:31
	I'm not a fan of name dropping but I was always curious why.	00:51:35
	He's always very.	00:51:38
	Very composed.	00:51:41
	When he sits there, he's very professional.	00:51:44
	When he was on a council.	00:51:46
	And I was always curious why he.	00:51:48
	Lost his temper about one December and told everyone to shut up.	00:51:51
	And when I had a conversation with him.	00:51:54
	It was eye opening, but it also validated what I've seen as I've sat in the seat for the last year and a half.	00:51:56
	And so so when I hear things.	00:52:04
	Like you go online and you accuse Marty.	00:52:08
	Of putting in.	00:52:11
	A policy.	00:52:13
	That restricts your ability to put things on the agenda.	00:52:14
	It's a bald faced lie.	00:52:17
	And so my patient.	00:52:19
	With your.	00:52:21
	Miss misrepresentation of the people here.	00:52:22
	And the things that.	00:52:26
	Being said about our city.	00:52:27
	I get really frustrated.	00:52:30
	And I have a little file.	00:52:32
	Of all of the things that you said.	00:52:33
	To misrepresent and and misalign and.	00:52:35
	Twist people's words.	00:52:38
	To the point where it's.	00:52:40
	It's getting pretty large, this file. Hey, point of order, Jamie.	00:52:41
	I have to have one other City Council member to add something on the City Council agenda, correct?	00:52:45
	And if I don't have 1/3.	00:52:52
	I have to come back to the City Council meeting.	00:52:54
	To get a third vote to override the mayor. This isn't a point of order. What you're doing is you're interrupting with a tangent of	00:52:57
	something that no, I'm just asking legal because that's how the legal you are interrupting something that's being discussed or	00:53:02
	something that is not on the table to take time away from.	00:53:07
	Sarah, who has not had her turn yet.	00:53:13
	So I'm not going to give it to Marty.	00:53:15
	Not going to give it to Jake.	00:53:17
	I'm going to return it back to Sarah. I can't get. I am going to return it back to Sarah. You had your time.	00:53:18
	You have to give turns to the other people.	00:53:24
	So.	00:53:28
	That the case, yeah. My problem is that you accuse Marty.	00:53:29
	Of implementing that and that's not true.	00:53:33
	Policy that don't.	00:53:35
	They're talking about me, so I get to jump in.	00:53:37
	I would like Jamie to clarify what title 3 is because.	00:53:40
	From my understanding.	00:53:44
	And from everything that we worked on.	00:53:46
	Before to get something on the Council agenda.	00:53:49
	It took three people.	00:53:51
	I worked.	00:53:53
	Nope, it took three.	00:53:55
	Before, you had to have a simple majority.	00:53:57
	To get something automatically.	00:54:00
	Or mandatorily without the mayor's.	00:54:02
	Approval on the agenda?	00:54:04
	And that was difficult for you because at the time you just had an alliance with Sarah.	00:54:06
	That you were hard.	00:54:10
	Kind of using.	00:54:12
	Your sway trying to convince other council members and I thought well that's silly, let's make it easier because if we want	00:54:14
	something on the agenda. I had felt the same way in the past so I.	00:54:18
	Worked with him to change it.	00:54:23
	Easier for you and then you did.	00:54:25
	Tell everyone.	00:54:27
	Maybe you misunderstood.	00:54:28
	But you told everyone that I made it harder.	00:54:30
	Even though I wasn't blocking you. But go back to Sarah.	00:54:32
	Go ahead, Sarah.	00:54:36
	Jamie, I'm gonna wait.	00:54:37
	For you to do that until Sarah has.	00:54:39
	Finished unless there you want this to be part of your discussion because.	00:54:41
	I want you to have your time like everybody else received.	00:54:45
	Well, I'm just going to bring up two things that I asked you.	00:54:48
	Fix a year and a half ago or a year ago?	00:54:52
	When we found out about.	00:54:54
	When we found out about Bella Lash and Mercedes.	00:54:56
	And I don't think you ever went back and clarified what those were.	00:54:59
	And so so while you're accusing the city of doing these things.	00:55:03
	That that.	00:55:06
	Look really bad on the surface.	00:55:08
	When you find out that Bela Lash is actually a utility refund.	00:55:10
	And you don't go back and correct what you said. You have to go back and correct. Yeah, we did. We corrected that. We corrected	00:55:14
	that.	00:55:17
	And we said that JKJ Sarah.	00:55:21
	Jake, listen, everybody, listen. Listen. Jake, you had lots of things. Jake, you had lots of things. You posted it on social	00:55:23
	media. Yeah, I did, right?	00:55:29
	And I said, why didn't you post it? We don't know that. You need to be quiet just for a second.	00:55:36
	Multiple people wanted to comment during your time.	00:55:41
	I did not say multiple people wanted to comment during your time.	00:55:45
	I allowed you to have that time.	00:55:51
	Now you are taking time away from Sarah. I need you to let.	00:55:53
	At this time, even if you want to respond, there are many things that you said that people really wanted to respond to you. I	00:55:56
	didn't allow them to do that. I didn't allow them to interrupt you.	00:56:01
	You need to not interrupt.	00:56:06
	The other people talking?	00:56:07
	And I know that it's hard, but we're going to give her the time.	00:56:09
	Well, and, and I'll bring up the Mercedes too, if you tell people that the city is spending their tax money on.	00:56:13
	Bella Lash and Mercedes.	00:56:19
	And then you find out that Mercedes was actually used dump truck.	00:56:21
	That takes the pendulum swing goes from one extreme to the other.	00:56:25
	No, the city isn't buying a Mercedes for them there.	00:56:28
	They're buying a used dump truck to be fiscally conservative, so if you don't clarify that difference in your discussion with your	00:56:31
	followers, you're doing a huge disservice to our community.	00:56:36
	So that's my point. That's all I have to say. Hold on. It is now. It is now my. It is now my turn.	00:56:41
	Let's make sure that I'm going to go ahead and take my turn as well.	00:56:48
	All right, there was a question.	00:56:53
	About umm.	00:56:55
	Where are we?	00:56:57
	Take this these finances and where do we find them and how do we invest them? And I wanted to talk about why we did this.	00:56:59
	So on the record, as far as we're aware.	00:57:06
	The time that we've had with the auditor.	00:57:09
	And So what we wanted to do was.	00:57:13
	Take what they gave us.	00:57:16
	And implement.	00:57:18
	A process that if they came back to us and said.	00:57:20
	Six months and they looked at what we were doing. They would see we took.	00:57:22
	Their suggestions to us? Seriously.	00:57:27
	And as the Council.	00:57:30
	Discussed there have been a lot of.	00:57:32
	Questions and.	00:57:34
	Comments and even accusations about how we're spending money and so last.	00:57:36
	On last City Council on the 9th I suggested.	00:57:41
	We dig into it.	00:57:44
	We don't want this.	00:57:46
	We don't want the.	00:57:47
	Residents of Vineyard to think that we're.	00:57:48
	Miss spending or using their tax dollars in a way that's not efficient.	00:57:51
	And in a way that represents their values.	00:57:55
	And so my thought was.	00:57:57
	We were grateful for what the auditor did, but why don't we dive in?	00:58:00
	And really make sure.	00:58:03
	We are participating in.	00:58:05
	Best practices.	00:58:07
	That our policies are brought up to where they need to be.	00:58:08
	That our finances are clear and transparent and one of the reasons as we've been growing so fast.	00:58:11
	And so taking an investment.	00:58:17
	From the money that we set aside.	00:58:19
	And our reserves and the and the funding that comes in that says.	00:58:21
	Hey, this is where we want.	00:58:26
	To return the investment to the people of Vineyard and make sure that each dollar is spent appropriately.	00:58:29
	And that it's done in a way that is.	00:58:34
	Above board.	00:58:37
	I think is a meaningful investment.	00:58:38
	We talked about.	00:58:41
	The fire station and why we had to raise taxes. So is the first time we raise taxes in 20 years.	00:58:43
	And I think the unfortunate part of it was.	00:58:48
	Inflation.	00:58:51
	And why we did it was to recoup inflation.	00:58:52
	So the percentage of our dollars that was covering our public.	00:58:55
	Safety. Umm.	00:58:58
	Had gone down.	00:58:59
	Our percentage was in the 80s.	00:59:00
	Almost 90s.	00:59:02
	And.	00:59:04
	Inflation had become so bad that it was taking us to a level that was.	00:59:04
	In the 50s.	00:59:09
	Right. Umm.	00:59:10
	And So what we were doing was we were ensuring.	00:59:11
	Umm, that our property tax continued to go to create a safe.	00:59:14
	Community.	00:59:18
	And we are so fiscally conservative we didn't bring it up to 100% like most cities have.	00:59:20
	We did it to about.	00:59:24
	In the 70s.	00:59:26
	And we?	00:59:27
	Believe that we'd be able to.	00:59:28
	Take our funds and.	00:59:30
	Spend less dollars and still provide those.	00:59:32
	Services that keep this community safe.	00:59:35
	Knowing that we would grow and that.	00:59:38
	That percentage picked back up to where it needed to be, and we're right back to where.	00:59:40
	I think is a remarkable place for the people of.	00:59:44
	Do you do that once in 20 years? I think is.	00:59:48
	Efficient.	00:59:51
	I think it's well thought out and the idea that we didn't take it all the way back to 100, but we planned for it knowing.	00:59:51
	We could be conservative with our dollars was important.	00:59:57
	I think it's important to recognize that every time we have these.	01:00:00
	Every time we wonder what Bella Lash or Mercedes or travel expenses are going on.	01:00:06
	It.	01:00:13
	Staff and our legal.	01:00:14
	And our Council.	01:00:16
	Time. Umm.	01:00:17
	And.	01:00:18
	These this 104,000 is not a lot.	01:00:20
	In comparison to what we've been.	01:00:24
	Spending on these.	01:00:26
	And I think that's important for the people of India to know your taxpayer dollars.	01:00:29
	Have been spent.	01:00:33
	Inefficiently.	01:00:34
	With these accusations and now what we are going to do is say.	01:00:35
	Let's take care of this.	01:00:40
	This is important to you.	01:00:41
	It's important to us.	01:00:43
	And we're going to invest it in an efficient way and I think.	01:00:45
	Brett really clarified in a.	01:00:47
	And in a thoughtful manner when he said.	01:00:50
	We are going to do it so that the people of Vineyard.	01:00:52
	Can look at the people that audited us.	01:00:56
	And have it be a third party. There was a.	01:00:59
	A comment made that said we're changing away from an independent audit.	01:01:02
	But we're not. This is very independent.	01:01:06
	And we'll go through an RFP process.	01:01:08
	This is a very public process.	01:01:10
	Today we're talking about the budget.	01:01:12
	Last week we talked about why the importance was out there. We're going to put out an RFP. We're going to see businesses come in.	01:01:14
	And request to be a part of that process.	01:01:21
	Now I think what's important is.	01:01:24
	The e-mail and I'm Eric. I'm going to give you time to clarify.	01:01:26
	The difference between how we do things internally as a city, especially since that chapter closed with the auditor.	01:01:30
	And when we go to the state.	01:01:36
	And that we are appreciative of those things.	01:01:39
	I think that's important for clarity.	01:01:42
	There's another thing that I think is important.	01:01:44
	Sometimes the news reports things.	01:01:47
	In a way that.	01:01:51
	We have to clarify.	01:01:53
	So there was a comment that said Brett went to Seth and ended up clarifying for the auditor that we were going to work with the	01:01:54
	TC, but.	01:01:58
	On original documents in our records.	01:02:03
	We have something available to the citizens that show what we are doing.	01:02:05
	In our steps to.	01:02:10
	Manage and work with the auditors findings.	01:02:12
	And their observations.	01:02:16
	And in that document it talks about how we're going to reach out to the TUC.	01:02:18
	It talks about the things that we're going to do.	01:02:22
	Come together and work as a group.	01:02:25
	I think that's really important.	01:02:27
	Last on the 9th, we all.	01:02:30
	Talked about how this is going to be managed and I think that's really important for the public.	01:02:32
	Because Brett is over our finances as a liaison from the council, he's leading this and Sarah volunteered to go and be a part of	01:02:38
	this.	01:02:42
	And there's going to be multiple people a part of this process. It's going to be.	01:02:46
	The company that they bring in, and they probably bring some people in from the public that have skills and background to be able	01:02:50
	to look at this and vet these numbers and, and make sure the scope is proper. That's part of it. One of the things that we talked	01:02:57
	about on the Friday 11th meeting, as the executive group was to say to make sure that we had all of the legalities right, to make	01:03:03
	sure that we knew how to bring it back to the council properly, to make sure that we knew which meetings needed to come forward.	01:03:10
	And to make sure that we knew how.	01:03:17
	This group was going to coordinate with the rest of the Council because the transparency of working with the rest of council.	01:03:18
	Was really critical and that started with the e-mail that Brett talked about, which was.	01:03:24
	To David Larry's point.	01:03:29
	Define.	01:03:31
	Define things like.	01:03:34
	Fraud and abuse.	01:03:35
	To make sure that we understand those words and to get the right people and experts in to come and help us understand that	01:03:36
	terminology and come together.	01:03:40
	The really nice thing I think about the exchanges that went back and forth between the Council was that.	01:03:45
	You're welcome to meet with whomever that you want to get advice and.	01:03:50
	Ideas and then bring that content.	01:03:55
	Back into the.	01:03:58
	To tell us about.	01:03:59
	How do you want it to find?	01:04:00
	What would Seth Obesan, if you're meeting with him, Jake, what would you want to see?	01:04:01
	From your perspective, because that's who you're getting advice from.	01:04:06
	And anybody else?	01:04:09
	Brings it back.	01:04:10
	To the lead and to.	01:04:12
	Who will come together?	01:04:14
	And they'll bring that back to the audit committee.	01:04:16
	And then that will come back.	01:04:18
	To us as a body, as a whole, like we do every other process.	01:04:19
	I think that's important because there's clarity in that.	01:04:23
	The whole council's involved.	01:04:25
	It's clear it's.	01:04:27
	Its public record.	01:04:29
	And work together on it and what we will do most.	01:04:30
	Importantly, spend those dollars.	01:04:33
	Efficiently, uh.	01:04:35
	And in a way, that's.	01:04:37
	Saves taxpayer dollars, removes the burden that's been there and helps us.	01:04:38
	In the long run.	01:04:42
	As we narrow in on that scope, I'm sure you guys will have a lot of opportunities to come together and discuss those things.	01:04:43
	Eric, I'm going to spend, I'm going to give a little bit of time.	01:04:49
	For you to share what you wanted to share and then I'm going to.	01:04:52
	And potentially.	01:04:56
	Finish up what I was my notes.	01:04:57
	And then I'm going to return it back to the discussion if there's anything otherwise I'd like to.	01:04:59
	Make a motion.	01:05:03
	Go ahead, Eric.	01:05:04
	My point is just really quick. A couple times it's been raised.	01:05:06
	If they're how we define fraud, waste and abuse.	01:05:10
	Fortunately for us.	01:05:13
	It's not something that we need to define.	01:05:15
	The generally accepted.	01:05:17
	Counting procedures.	01:05:19
	Specifically defines those measures and an outside accounting firm or audit firm.	01:05:22
	We'll use that those specific definitions to guide their review of our.	01:05:28
	Finances.	01:05:33
	So that's one that we we don't need to participate on.	01:05:34
	You could look that up there. They're pretty clearly defined online. You can.	01:05:37
	You can read through.	01:05:42
	The definitions of each of those.	01:05:43
	As for the letter.	01:05:46
	The letter that I've.	01:05:48
	Submitted.	01:05:49
	The chain of conversation going on between.	01:05:50
	Our Finance Committee.	01:05:54
	And uh.	01:05:56
	The auditor.	01:05:57
	Was that?	01:05:59
	As a City Council, you.	01:06:00
	You are a political subdivision of this state.	01:06:02
	Granted.	01:06:05
	A great deal of autonomy.	01:06:06
	And that as you act as a.	01:06:09
	As a legislative body.	01:06:11
	You can create.	01:06:12
	Systems for oversight you can create.	01:06:14
	Bylaws for our city and.	01:06:17
	The more we rely on, it isn't that I have any issue whatsoever.	01:06:19
	With utilizing the expertise of a state oversight.	01:06:24
	Body like the state auditor.	01:06:28
	It's that.	01:06:30
	As a city, you you have been granted.	01:06:31
	Autonomy.	01:06:33
	To create your own bylaws and operate as a municipality.	01:06:35
	And that the more you rely on outside entities.	01:06:39
	It can.	01:06:41
	Have an eroding effect on.	01:06:43
	The value of you acting as a body and I just wanted to.	01:06:45
	Make sure that we are being clear on that so that.	01:06:49
	If our City Council wants to.	01:06:52
	Arrange for an external audit.	01:06:55
	They are perfectly in their realm of.	01:06:57
	Of autonomy to.	01:07:00
	To conduct that study.	01:07:01
	Or to request it.	01:07:03
	Because it is an external audit.	01:07:05
	As the Council, you'll simply be.	01:07:07
	Hearing from that auditor.	01:07:11
	They'll say we need.	01:07:13
	This this this this.	01:07:14
	You'll ask our staff to produce that.	01:07:16
	And that outside auditor will independently review whatever it is that they're receiving from us. So it becomes.	01:07:19
	Very much.	01:07:25
	An official outside audit.	01:07:26
	Independent audit.	01:07:28
	And I'll leave it with that. Well, and I think one of the great things that we're doing and I really think.	01:07:30
	Will be meaningful to the residents is that?	01:07:35
	We can search for the things that.	01:07:38
	All of the representatives bring to the table and invite to that scope and say.	01:07:40
	This is really what we want to review so that.	01:07:44
	It's very clear, very transparent and it's aligned with the commitments that we've made to.	01:07:47
	People, there was something that I don't think I explained when I was explaining how we aligned it and for the people to be	01:07:53
	involved, but we do have to be very thoughtful.	01:07:57
	Of creating quorums.	01:08:01
	And so even on a meeting on Friday, even though Sarah was involved.	01:08:03
	Because we had to go back to the legalities and executive meetings, she couldn't be there because I was there. So we have to be	01:08:08
	thoughtful about how we interact and one of the ways that we've decided and.	01:08:13
	Really thought this would be.	01:08:17
	Effective is by making sure.	01:08:20
	We get those e-mail chains going.	01:08:23
	I don't think it's a part of this discussion.	01:08:26
	But I'm happy now to yield a little bit of time today. I need to just clarify the votes unless we want to do that after this.	01:08:30
	Meeting agenda.	01:08:38
	I can talk briefly to it, although I.	01:08:40
	I don't know that it has anything to do with the.	01:08:43
	Audit, so if you want me to come back to it later, I can.	01:08:45
	I get to write this right. Could we do it right after this?	01:08:48
	OK, actually it's fine.	01:08:51
	Go ahead and take a minute.	01:08:52
	Oh, and then we'll close that discussion.	01:08:53
	There didn't used to be a lot of detail in title 3 of the.	01:08:56
	City code and.	01:08:59
	Previously there was question about.	01:09:01
	What would it take for something to get on the agenda and without any rule in place?	01:09:03
	The only way the council could act on things was by majority vote, but.	01:09:08
	And so the Council adopted rules put it into.	01:09:12
	I shouldn't even say rules in ordinance.	01:09:15
	Put it into title 3 of the city code and it allows any 2 council members together.	01:09:17
	To request to have something on the agenda and then.	01:09:23
	It would be put on the agenda.	01:09:26
	And you know, there's the detailed process for other now that let's let's make sure.	01:09:27
	It can be submitted to the mayor.	01:09:32
	And then if the mayor denies it?	01:09:34
	Then I can talk in a council meeting and then we need to.	01:09:36
	As I said, it has a detailed process. That's a big detail, Jamie.	01:09:41
	So it needs a third.	01:09:45
	No, no, it doesn't. And I, I think maybe for clarity because I think maybe you're not.	01:09:46
	That's also.	01:09:53
	People can find out that what you're saying is not true. In fact, most of the time you don't request.	01:09:55
	Things but when you do, I don't request anything anymore because of the fight. You guys don't want to hear the problem, just like	01:10:00
	Sarah doesn't want to talk openly.	01:10:05
	Like or do cross examine or hey, you say there's a lie, let's get into the details like.	01:10:09
	You, Sarah, it's not funny to laugh.	01:10:16
	You're making false accusations as well, and I think that it's.	01:10:20
	So hold on, I'm clear. No, I'm going to.	01:10:24
	Because I'll apologize for the ball out. No, I want to. I want to end this discussion.	01:10:29
	Jake, I want to end this discussion because it doesn't have to do with us. I just wanted you to.	01:10:33
	No, I just wanted you to understand meeting protocol. This doesn't even have to do with what we're talking about.	01:10:39
	And meeting protocol.	01:10:44
	Is that?	01:10:46
	You can e-mail.	01:10:47
	And then?	01:10:49
	You can get to people and if two people don't support you, which might be why your item isn't making it.	01:10:50
	Or it.	01:10:55
	Didn't meet the criteria. Hold on please.	01:10:56
	Is that you would bring it to the Council and see if.	01:10:59
	Then you could be supported a different way. It's it's actually to enable you and give you multiple opportunities to get something	01:11:02
	on the agenda. It's it's an empowerment tool to say an empowerment that nothing has been on the agenda. Mayor, that is not true.	01:11:10
	I, I disagree with you can't talk about LRS we can't talk about. There's so many things we can't talk about here.	01:11:17
	That's not true.	01:11:24
	But we're not talking about the items.	01:11:25
	There's so many things. I mean, let's just name them.	01:11:28
	You can't say that I'm not trying.	01:11:33
	Yeah, in the last six months we're having over the season and it's not.	01:11:35
	Listen to me, no. But if you say point of order, I'm not saying anything false.	01:11:39
	You just disagree.	01:11:44
	Right. I'm just saying like, no, no.	01:11:45
	Listen, listen to what I'm saying. Can we put him on the agenda then?	01:11:48
	Jake, right now I'm explaining the process to you.	01:11:51
	I'm explaining that it.	01:11:55
	Saves you the opportunity to do it in multiple ways.	01:11:57
	Right. They'll be blocked multiple ways because obviously they haven't been on the agenda, right?	01:12:00
	All right. Now that you know the rules and that we've discussed it and Jamie has made it clear and everybody understands that if	01:12:05
	you guys would like to have a further discussion at a different time, we can.	01:12:10
	But we are going to solve what we are here to do on this agenda item.	01:12:16
	So let's go ahead and if was there any other questions for clarity? I had a question for clarity. I know that the next topic is.	01:12:21
	Approving the RFP, yeah, we'll be pushing that to a different meeting. OK. I'm just wondering if.	01:12:31
	We can.	01:12:37
	Wait till we get the RFP and then we can decide how much money we need to transfer for our budget amendment. Rather than	01:12:39
	preemptively transferring, can we wait till we know?	01:12:44
	What it is?	01:12:49
	Yeah, that would be great.	01:12:51
	Christie reached out to some.	01:12:53
	Firms and got a ballpark.	01:12:54
	If we have that in the budget.	01:12:56
	Then the next decision will simply be a council decision to approve the contract at the.	01:12:59
	Actual amount that it is.	01:13:03
	I mean, does it hurt to wait and disapprove it when we?	01:13:06
	Have the numbers.	01:13:09
	But I mean, that is what that is what Eric is saying we would do.	01:13:10
	We're just putting it into the budget. No, I understand. I mean.	01:13:15
	We're just saving funding.	01:13:19
	And we still have the funding. It's just moving it around at this point. I mean, I'm fine.	01:13:21
	I just think.	01:13:26
	We could post. I mean does it harm to postpone this with the other item?	01:13:27
	If you guys don't want this to be this massive thing and you want it to be successful.	01:13:34
	Just sitting down with the state auditor with me and.	01:13:39
	For an hour and going through Brett's scope of work so that.	01:13:43
	We can hear it.	01:13:47
	You can get a second opinion and go OK, great. And then hearing that advice and saying, OK, this is where we're at.	01:13:48
	I think we could find bipartisan stuff. Well, I sat down with the auditor and had a really great conversation with Brett, and she	01:13:54
	clarified several things and pointed out several things.	01:14:00
	He thought about the original. I'm talking about this spending $104,000. What I think is wild is you've never invited me to any of	01:14:05
	these meetings. You've had like all these conversations about an audit, what council member from any city?	01:14:11
	Pursues auditing their own city.	01:14:18
	Like if you would have sat down, we are in Ukraine, India.	01:14:20
	France and England so small city like this and.	01:14:25
	There was no payments.	01:14:30
	I know. And you guys don't think that is wasted abuse? No, that's not what you say.	01:14:32
	Pay for We did not pay for the mayor, but the membership doesn't just provide those, they pay for other things as well.	01:14:37
	But we've talked about this several times and you bring it up all the time and then.	01:14:45
	Other people are misunderstanding what you're saying and.	01:14:49
	Making it more inflammatory. And So what I'm saying is.	01:14:52
	We've talked about travel policies. You've requested many things to call. We've talked about the Financial Policy. You asked for	01:14:56
	that to go on the agenda.	01:14:59
	It went on. You asked about the travel policy. It went on.	01:15:03
	It's not my problem if you're not getting what you want out of those meetings.	01:15:07
	It is your problem because Eric is your city manager. And if I'm not included in it.	01:15:11
	On your shoulders. Public meetings.	01:15:16
	Yeah. But if you guys are just presenting, this is our policy and we're not changing it. No, that's not at all. We're the one	01:15:18
	that's accountable. We didn't change our procurement policy because you didn't show up to that meeting. You were not there. I was	01:15:24
	in the procurement meeting.	01:15:29
	No, I'm talking about we had it a few times on the agenda.	01:15:34
	Helped some of the discussion to read what's in the.	01:15:39
	RFP and what the scope is.	01:15:42
	Sure. And then you can proceed to whatever you want to do on the.	01:15:44
	On the boat.	01:15:48
	But I.	01:15:49
	I We have heard.	01:15:50
	Over the last few years, complaints about.	01:15:52
	Several different aspects of.	01:15:55
	How the city manages its resources, be it be.	01:15:58
	Procurement, be it financial oversight.	01:16:00
	And the city?	01:16:03
	Those rumors?	01:16:06
	In part because there's been no independent auditor, no independent review.	01:16:08
	And that's what this effort is about, is to bring somebody in that doesn't.	01:16:12
	According to professional standards.	01:16:16
	Those professional standards require independence. Those professional standards have definitions. They have.	01:16:18
	Protocols and procedures.	01:16:25
	That are established nationally. They're not.	01:16:27
	Vineyards.	01:16:30
	Specific, uh.	01:16:31
	Protocol for procedures.	01:16:32
	There is in the RFP.	01:16:34
	Three different.	01:16:38
	Categories of deliverables that the auditor would be asked to do. The first is what's called.	01:16:38
	And agreed upon procedures audit agreed upon procedures is.	01:16:44
	A term of art.	01:16:48
	In the professional finance.	01:16:49
	Where you define procedures for audit and then they look at things.	01:16:53
	What the agreed upon procedures?	01:16:56
	Audit will include.	01:16:59
	But is not limited to our five different things. This gets at the Frogway Synapse.	01:17:01
	It's a review of transaction level data for procurement and disbursement cycles.	01:17:06
	It's a review of compliance with internal spending thresholds and approvals.	01:17:11
	It's a sampling of employee reimbursements and credit card charges.	01:17:15
	It's a verification of urine balances and fund transfers for selected fiscal years.	01:17:20
	And its compliance with key state laws.	01:17:25
	Now the agreed upon.	01:17:28
	Procedures portion of the audit is where you look at the existing rules you look at.	01:17:31
	What is accounted for and what's in the books, and you see whether they align.	01:17:36
	And if they don't, then you get a report back that helps you understand that.	01:17:40
	And there you can.	01:17:44
	Target or pinpointed front way. I'm not finished.	01:17:45
	And the second part of.	01:17:49
	The audit and the second category of deliverables is.	01:17:52
	Written it.	01:17:57
	Evaluation of policies and procedures for each listed category.	01:17:58
	So if you look at the two together, the 1st is saying what are your current rules and do you follow them?	01:18:02
	The second category is saying.	01:18:07
	What are your current rules?	01:18:09
	And should they be modified, updated or changed?	01:18:11
	In accordance with.	01:18:14
	Their experience.	01:18:16
	Nationally and locally and best practices both in the state.	01:18:17
	And outside of the state.	01:18:21
	Part of the recommendations there specifically would be.	01:18:23
	To have.	01:18:27
	To evaluate the city's mechanisms for reporting and investigating.	01:18:28
	Employee misconduct.	01:18:33
	Waste or fraud?	01:18:34
	And best practices on evaluating the city's.	01:18:37
	Procedures.	01:18:41
	And then the third thing that we would ask of the auditor.	01:18:42
	Is that they?	01:18:45
	Prepare recommendations for an audit committee, charter or bylaws.	01:18:47
	What an appointment process would look like and then sample onboarding or training.	01:18:53
	For that committee, should the city decide to stand it up.	01:18:57
	For the targeted review of internal.	01:19:01
	Controls. There are categories of things that they would look at. They include.	01:19:04
	Employee peak heart issuance and use.	01:19:08
	Employee travel and reimbursement.	01:19:10
	Municipal vehicle.	01:19:13
	Assignment and usage tracking.	01:19:14
	Redevelopment Agency.	01:19:17
	Payments and compliance.	01:19:18
	Procurement of food.	01:19:20
	Meals, events, Employee recognition.	01:19:21
	Cast Transactions Utility Billing.	01:19:24
	RDA Cleanup.	01:19:27
	The last.	01:19:29
	Two of those are recommendations that came specifically from the state auditor where they said can you include.	01:19:30
	Those two categories of things, and we obliged that and.	01:19:37
	Included them.	01:19:41
	Now, if you'll permit me.	01:19:43
	Editorial comment.	01:19:45
	I am baffled.	01:19:47
	By Councilmember Holdaway complaining about these items.	01:19:48
	And then objecting to bringing.	01:19:52
	Somebody and independently review them.	01:19:55
	I can't reconcile that.	01:19:57
	I don't understand why you would ask.	01:19:59
	Questions about those categories of expenses?	01:20:01
	And then not want somebody to examine them.	01:20:04
	OK. I would love to respond to that.	01:20:07
	When I get messages.	01:20:11
	Of our cars in Vegas and in Disneyland.	01:20:13
	And I try and get fuel expenses in October, right? David Larae.	01:20:17
	And say.	01:20:22
	Can I get an excess of T cards? I am told that we are not keeping that data and that our vendor does not provide that.	01:20:23
	And it takes six months to gather that information.	01:20:30
	On a delay so that the information is lost.	01:20:34
	So that's the first thing. Second.	01:20:37
	I know if you've.	01:20:39
	What no information was my information. The citizens that took the information of the car, not your information, my information.	01:20:41
	To be able to look over what you guys are doing.	01:20:49
	Because it took six months.	01:20:51
	Because I'm lied to.	01:20:53
	You guys told me the vendor didn't provide it and it did.	01:20:55
	They hadn't. They had it meaning you've never looked over it, ever. And they even told us that.	01:20:58
	You guys have never looked over this.	01:21:05
	These are the problems that I have is like you guys delay and delay.	01:21:06
	And you fight it. And then finally it's produced six months later. And that's when we lose that trust, the issue you just	01:21:12
	mentioned.	01:21:16
	Right. And I understand that, but what I'm saying is he's asking why you don't want us to audit ourselves if that's your problem,	01:21:19
	why you're asking questions about the same categories that are in here because we're not wanting.	01:21:26
	An independent review of those. I started that conversation and said I totally at the beginning of the conversation, I support	01:21:33
	Brett.	01:21:37
	Threats wanting to go through and do that.	01:21:41
	But I.	01:21:45
	Immediately when I sit down with a state auditor.	01:21:46
	I get an e-mail from him telling me not.	01:21:49
	That we shouldn't be doing.	01:21:51
	And that I'm not in the e-mail.	01:21:52
	To be.	01:21:54
	Involved in that meeting and I haven't had that meeting with that, OK, I think.	01:21:55
	So I'd love to go through your skeptic scope, what you're saying there.	01:21:59
	With them.	01:22:02
	To get by in because.	01:22:03
	What I heard from Brett was.	01:22:04
	Well, I went and sat down with it at the beginning. We went and sat down with Eric.	01:22:06
	And Christie.	01:22:10
	And they put.	01:22:11
	Forth the guidelines and I'm like, well, that doesn't sound like an independent audit to me because I'm fighting for fuel records.	01:22:12
	Of cars all over the place, right? And it took us six months.	01:22:19
	And by that time I go back and we don't.	01:22:22
	Where they're at or who's driving, you're not going to be able to figure it out, so it just loses trust.	01:22:24
	On the bellow lasses thing, I would definitely apologize for the bellow lashes thing.	01:22:30
	When we first originally looked at the Ledger.	01:22:35
	We're going to come back to this. No, because I made a mistake. I can totally order.	01:22:39
	We're going to come back to this item.	01:22:43
	Because it's really important, right? And we're going to stay, we're going to stay on this. But.	01:22:45
	If someone throws something that I'm just honest, I can totally apologize for it.	01:22:49
	We had to take.	01:22:53
	Right now we're going to.	01:22:56
	Item so that we can get through the business of the city.	01:22:57
	Hold on, Jake.	01:23:02
	This is gonna take 30 seconds.	01:23:03
	I will give you a few seconds. Go ahead.	01:23:05
	When we looked at the Ledger.	01:23:09
	We saw a hotel in France, a hotel in England, Bella Lashes, Mercedes.	01:23:10
	And we and I.	01:23:15
	Mistakenly.	01:23:17
	Blurted out in a small group of people.	01:23:18
	I want to look at this. I want to look at this. I want to look at this.	01:23:21
	And I did not know if Beller lasses 1 of 15 things.	01:23:24
	Or are the bell lasses in the other thing?	01:23:28
	That didn't end up being true.	01:23:31
	But the four-star hotel was.	01:23:34
	The biking in Dallas was all of these other things were.	01:23:36
	Listen, we're here to take. Hey, Jake, listen to me. Please listen.	01:23:40
	No, and I didn't even go to social media.	01:23:44
	Hey Jake, you're the one that posted.	01:23:47
	So I didn't even go to Eric about Belacas. You did?	01:23:50
	So I don't know. I'm not responsible for that.	01:23:53
	But on the other stuff.	01:23:56
	But 8090%?	01:23:58
	Guys, I would really like to.	01:23:59
	To get through this meeting, you know.	01:24:01
	And I would like your support.	01:24:03
	And moving this meeting forward.	01:24:04
	It's really critical that we.	01:24:08
	Keep to our agenda and move this forward, otherwise our business items can be derailed and we have people that come here.	01:24:10
	Hear this and to hear the agenda items.	01:24:17
	That are here.	01:24:19
	On the agendas and I would really like your support.	01:24:20
	There can I make a quick point just to respond to the question that Marty asked about the.	01:24:23
	The pertinence?	01:24:28
	Proving this tonight.	01:24:30
	No, not until I get a response from the Council.	01:24:31
	For the support, Oh, I would love to move the meeting forward.	01:24:35
	OK. Thank you.	01:24:39
	I'm going to make a point to that and then you can.	01:24:42
	I don't well.	01:24:44
	Actually, yeah.	01:24:45
	Do you feel like it's necessary tonight? Yeah.	01:24:46
	OK, umm.	01:24:48
	As a practice for us, for city staff.	01:24:50
	It is.	01:24:54
	Our common practice to have.	01:24:56
	Anything that we are pursuing with.	01:24:58
	Dollars attached to it.	01:25:01
	That we have a budget.	01:25:03
	Approved for that item.	01:25:04
	It would be in bad faith for us to issue an RFP and have people go through the work of.	01:25:06
	Producing a proposal.	01:25:11
	For something that we have not approved a budget to support.	01:25:13
	And so.	01:25:17
	If we can approve a budget tonight.	01:25:17
	It doesn't mean that you have to spend the dollars, it means that we have dollars set aside for that item that we are issuing an	01:25:20
	RFP on.	01:25:23
	And a later decision will come to the Council.	01:25:26
	So that you can give your support.	01:25:30
	Or or lack.	01:25:32
	Of the specific contract that we bring before Council.	01:25:34
	Right. We're not approving RFP tonight. It could be moved with the other one because we want to be.	01:25:39
	You wouldn't be putting it out to RFP.	01:25:43
	The.	01:25:46
	Would go out what you would approve at a later time as.	01:25:47
	And award of a contract, right? Well, the problem is is the scope.	01:25:50
	Like the reason why when I spoke with the state auditor and he was like, whoa, 104 was like, what is that scope? And he didn't	01:25:54
	know. And I spoke to him an hour before this meeting.	01:25:58
	And I was like, is that high? And it's like.	01:26:03
	Well, wow, how are you defining?	01:26:05
	And we got all these questions and I was like.	01:26:07
	OK. So if you don't know, I don't know, I don't know what fret either.	01:26:10
	And that's why I think it needs to be delayed. And I want you to know.	01:26:13
	That if if we're gonna have healing in our city.	01:26:16
	You guys need me?	01:26:18
	Because it can't just be going and.	01:26:20
	We.	01:26:23
	Our employees, we put the scope of work together.	01:26:24
	Jake asked over and over to be included.	01:26:27
	They went and met all by themselves, but then when they came back and said this is the scope and we're going to follow the city	01:26:31
	staff.	01:26:33
	Drink like I want to be on board I want to.	01:26:37
	I'm gonna say something though.	01:26:39
	This let's make it very clear what we would be doing right now.	01:26:41
	Because I think there's confusion.	01:26:45
	Tonight we would be putting savings aside.	01:26:48
	For a future possibility.	01:26:51
	Eric saying that.	01:26:54
	If you have savings set aside, people know that you're serious. It triggers the RFP.	01:26:56
	No, the artist could be put out.	01:27:01
	Anyway, we're just saying it's.	01:27:03
	Better if we put the finances.	01:27:05
	And we're saving them.	01:27:08
	That is what you're saying.	01:27:10
	Now we're not spending them yet.	01:27:12
	We're saving them.	01:27:13
	I have no problem with the.	01:27:15
	The spending, it's the scope of work. It's OK so #2.	01:27:16
	The scope of work is designed like this.	01:27:20
	Brett and Sarah as a quorum will be working together to fulfill this before we send out the RFP.	01:27:24
	I think you can.	01:27:31
	Work with them.	01:27:33
	Through the channels that were designed.	01:27:34
	To complete and.	01:27:36
	Say these are the things that the RFP is on the street.	01:27:38
	So I don't want, yeah.	01:27:41
	That it's been published, it's out.	01:27:43
	OK. When was that put out? Hold on one second, Jake.	01:27:45
	And the scope of the RFP was shared with the full council.	01:27:49
	And a request by Brett.	01:27:53
	For feedback from the Council.	01:27:55
	And then Brett reached out to Seth to verify with him. Yeah, which we saw all of that information was.	01:27:56
	Encapsulating what?	01:28:03
	All I did is verify the notes of the music. OK so.	01:28:05
	So well, and we're not we're not actually working with the state auditor to create ourselves. I think the point that is being	01:28:09
	discussed here.	01:28:13
	Is that you were given an opportunity to define the scope.	01:28:19
	So we hope that you took the opportunity.	01:28:23
	You were, you were able, you were able to meet with the auditor yourself.	01:28:28
	Brett was able to meet with the auditor also.	01:28:37
	And then you were given the opportunity to send an e-mail. No, you did.	01:28:40
	No, I didn't. No, what I mean is you had an opportunity.	01:28:45
	During the time that you were given the e-mail.	01:28:49
	You even talked to him today by yourself. Am I misunderstanding that? You have a definitely misunderstanding because all he did is	01:28:52
	verify the notes of Brett. He did not verify the scope of the RFP.	01:28:57
	He didn't. He knew there were certain things that were added. OK, but I wasn't in that meeting. And so to put that in our words,	01:29:03
	what about what about the e-mail?	01:29:07
	Why didn't you send it to him if you were working with him? I did send him.	01:29:10
	No, it's with Brett's.	01:29:16
	Scope e-mail asking you for your input on this because I sat down and said let's have a meeting and that's what we were going to	01:29:18
	go through. It looks like you were.	01:29:21
	Told that they weren't going to meet together. So right we were denied the meeting. No, my question is why didn't you go and ask	01:29:25
	us?	01:29:29
	If you really wanted such input.	01:29:33
	Because Seth, at that point.	01:29:35
	I had no knowledge.	01:29:37
	Brett was even going to meet with him.	01:29:38
	I didn't even know he'd met with him.	01:29:40
	Because the e-mail from Eric was that it wasn't going to go through.	01:29:42
	So I emailed back and said if I'm not going to meet with.	01:29:45
	The bread and the state auditor, you guys are going to stop that.	01:29:48
	To go over the scope, I'm not going to participate. We're not going to kick the state out of her.	01:29:52
	From counseling me and getting help.	01:29:56
	I'm not going to go through that process. So from Eric's.	01:29:59
	Explanation. I don't think I don't understand it that way. It doesn't seem like that's the way that you intended it. It doesn't	01:30:02
	seem that that that's the way that Brett interpreted it.	01:30:07
	I think you should review the scope and.	01:30:13
	Maybe inside of the scope that's there, look for things that.	01:30:16
	You could.	01:30:21
	Could meet your needs.	01:30:23
	As Brett mentioned, most of the things that you've been bringing up.	01:30:24
	To the Council and to the public.	01:30:28
	Are being discussed and I think that's because especially me on the 9th.	01:30:31
	I wanted to make sure that those things were incorporated.	01:30:36
	If you see something that isn't there, I think you could shoot an e-mail to Brett.	01:30:39
	And really talk about it.	01:30:44
	I guess what I mean is the scope is broad.	01:30:47
	No, it's not. It's pretty defined in the scope of every RFP is pretty. Jamie read it to us and it seemed like there were a lot of	01:30:52
	opportunities in writing. So why would you be able to adjust it if it's already off? That's what we're arguing because sometimes	01:30:57
	there's categories software company I taught.	01:31:02
	Request for proposals for eight years. I know what this is. Were there any times where there were categories where you could fit	01:31:07
	in the things that you care about to be put into those categories?	01:31:13
	104,000 Shock like whoa, what is going on?	01:31:19
	And I hear is that it'll be.	01:31:24
	You know, 10 to 20.	01:31:26
	Oh, OK.	01:31:27
	Because what we're looking, you guys are trying to go after trust.	01:31:28
	I'm trying to grasp their trust.	01:31:32
	How are you going to get trust?	01:31:34
	You're going to get trust by the state auditor saying we're in compliance with those things.	01:31:35
	They're going to get thrust by saying.	01:31:39
	Jake was involved in the process.	01:31:41
	Others were in the categories that in the oversight of it.	01:31:43
	That's the only way you get trust.	01:31:46
	If you guys go out and hire your own third party independent person and your own employee, that's like hiring your own.	01:31:48
	Your own referee. It's really difficult when people try to involve you and you you don't participate if it's not the way that you	01:31:55
	want it to be, like you could have.	01:31:59
	Participating now.	01:32:04
	And and and tonight, you know.	01:32:06
	This is so.	01:32:08
	Sorry, can I interrupt again?	01:32:10
	Marty has to leave. We didn't figure this would be a long, long meeting.	01:32:12
	And Jake, you know what?	01:32:16
	You own a company.	01:32:17
	That that provides standard of measurements for companies, right?	01:32:19
	This is literally what This is why we argue about. This is literally what Jamie just explained.	01:32:22
	Whoever we hire.	01:32:26
	They're the standard of measurements for audit that.	01:32:28
	No, no, Marty has to go.	01:32:31
	So we're just gonna stop right here?	01:32:33
	And let Julie have the right.	01:32:35
	I know that it's ideal.	01:32:38
	It doesn't seem like.	01:32:40
	Everybody is on board with it. Is it possible that we could?	01:32:42
	I'm fine with.	01:32:45
	I'm fine with moving money in the budget. That's fine. And that we're going to have the final say on the RFP before the money	01:32:47
	spent. That's right.	01:32:51
	OK, umm.	01:32:55
	So, umm.	01:32:55
	For clarity for the public.	01:32:56
	We're saving money.	01:32:58
	The RFP is out, you can read it.	01:32:59
	You can, you know.	01:33:01
	Review the notes that were written tonight if you find things that fit into that scope.	01:33:02
	Please feel free to e-mail Brett or Sara, they're the.	01:33:07
	People that are working on this.	01:33:10
	If you find an opportunity inside that, I hope that works out.	01:33:12
	Umm, because we really want you to be involved in this process and I hope that.	01:33:17
	We've made that really clear as we go through this process.	01:33:21
	I need a motion.	01:33:24
	To adopt.	01:33:25
	This change.	01:33:28
	I move to adopt resolution.	01:33:33
	2025-40.	01:33:34
	Vineyard City Fiscal Year 20252026 Budget amendment #1 as presented by staff.	01:33:36
	All right. Thank you. At the first by Brett. Can I get a second?	01:33:42
	Second Second by Sarah.	01:33:45
	I'm going to do this by roll call.	01:33:48
	Shake No.	01:33:49
	Hi, Marty.	01:33:53
	Sarah, hi.	01:33:55
	All right, so this.	01:33:56
	This next one, I think what we're going to do is.	01:33:57
	I am going to ask that.	01:34:02
	We just pull this from the agenda and what we'll do is we'll revisit it in a way that.	01:34:05
	The Council will be able to, really.	01:34:10
	And review the RFP and look at it and.	01:34:13
	Awarded bid and.	01:34:19
	Make this process as public as we can. So I was going to have this continued, but instead let's strike it from the.	01:34:21
	Agenda. I'm going to ask for a motion.	01:34:28
	So moved. Thanks, Brett. Can I get a second?	01:34:31
	Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor.	01:34:34
	Aye, all right.	01:34:36
	That was the strength. Oh, sorry.	01:34:41
	OK. And the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.	01:34:44