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Event transcript
That is so much better. I am so sorry for that so. 00:00:00
I will go ahead and get this call, the meeting call to order at 6:10. 00:00:04
As you can see, we are absent Mayor Stratton. 00:00:09
And so with that in mind. 00:00:13
What I would like to do is ask the Council to nominate. 00:00:15
One of your members to serve as the Mayor pro Tempore. 00:00:20
His absence. 00:00:25
I nominate David Larae to serve as Mayor pro Tempore during Mayor Stratton's absence. 00:00:26
All right. I second that. 00:00:32
And a second, OK, we'll do this by roll call Parker. 00:00:33
Hi, Councilmember. Aye, Councilmember Holdaway, Yes. 00:00:38
Councilmember Wood. 00:00:45
Councilmember Larae. 00:00:46
And council member Nair. 00:00:48
Hi, excellent. All right. Motion passes then? 00:00:50
I'm going to turn the time over then. 00:00:54
To our mayor pro tempore, David. 00:00:56
Thank you very much. 00:00:59
Thank you folks for coming and thank you very much for being patient as we get organized here. And. 00:01:01
And get our. 00:01:06
Recording is working. 00:01:08
We want to start with a. 00:01:10
Prayer and. 00:01:12
Pledge allegiance? I've asked. 00:01:14
I've asked a longtime resident and a former city official who's. 00:01:16
Who's seen a lot of changes here in Vineyard to help to lead us out in this And so I've asked Wayne Holdaway if he would come over 00:01:20
and and lead us in an order of prayer. 00:01:24
And then the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:29
So Wayne times yours. 00:01:31
Our righteous, eternal Father in heaven. 00:01:38
Oh, how grateful we are. 00:01:40
To be able to be assembled together in a form of government. 00:01:42
Father would ask that thou blessings will be with us. 00:01:46
People make decisions that are proper decisions that will be good for this wonderful city that we live in. 00:01:50
We love the Father. 00:01:56
And we say this. 00:01:58
And dedicate this meeting to you in Jesus name, Amen. Amen. 00:01:59
Twisted. 00:02:05
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:02:09
Of United States of America. 00:02:12
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:02:14
One nation under God. 00:02:17
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:02:20
Thank you. 00:02:23
When I first arrived in Vineyard. 00:02:32
We Wayne was serving as the chair of the Planning Commission and we had served for many years previously. 00:02:33
He's seen a lot of changes and I, I. 00:02:40
Like to talk with him about that, he shows you some things that have. 00:02:43
We've done well on some of the things that. 00:02:45
That maybe we could lookout to improving. 00:02:48
And it's nice. 00:02:49
Appreciate that very much. Thank you, Wayne. 00:02:51
OK, so the. 00:02:54
1st order of business it looks like. 00:02:55
Presentation. 00:02:58
We want to call on our Deputy City Recorder, Tony Lara, to talk to us about. 00:03:00
About closed sessions and why they're held and when they're held and why we have them on our agenda every week. 00:03:05
I share a thought before we start. Absolutely. 00:03:12
Just for. 00:03:15
Public context here. 00:03:16
The council kind of discussed last week. 00:03:18
Frustration with the. 00:03:21
Constant or the prevalence of closed meetings being on every agenda. 00:03:25
And we wanted to kind of. 00:03:30
Grab the expert opinion and and figure that out if it was just a catch all. 00:03:32
And we put it on there so that it's an option or if it's something that actually needs to be there. 00:03:36
Ultimately, it was. 00:03:42
My belief that we shouldn't have. 00:03:43
Closed door sessions on every agenda unless we intend to use them because I don't want to give the perception. 00:03:46
That that is our intent. 00:03:52
And you are absolutely correct with that. Just because there is a closed session mentioned on an agenda, there is no requirement 00:03:56
then to have that. 00:04:01
That closed session so. 00:04:05
Thanks for giving me the chance to talk to you guys about it. 00:04:08
Essentially. 00:04:11
As as I know you're all aware, there are stipulations that govern closed session meetings as far as. 00:04:13
The subject matter what can be discussed? 00:04:22
And how those are entered into. But also there is still that same stipulation of having to. 00:04:26
Anything that you are voting on needing to be agendized and noticed 24 hours in advance and so. 00:04:32
Generally the approach that we have. 00:04:39
With. 00:04:41
Adding a closed session onto an agenda. 00:04:43
Beforehand. 00:04:46
Regardless of whether we we. 00:04:48
One is planned or not, is to avoid situations where legitimate and time sensitive matters can't be addressed due to a lack of 00:04:50
advanced notice and so the best practice. 00:04:56
That I've inherited. 00:05:03
Was that we put that notice of the. 00:05:06
Closed session on every agenda. 00:05:10
Just as I'm sure you. 00:05:12
The Council has already been aware. 00:05:14
For as many meetings as you've had, sometimes things can change. Last minute discussions about personnel. Discussions about legal 00:05:16
strategies. 00:05:20
Property issues. 00:05:26
Those are all things that would. 00:05:27
During the course of a discussion in a meeting how the potential to come up and would warrant a closed meeting should you want 00:05:30
that and so I just want to make sure. 00:05:35
That that's on there so that you have that as an option and that it's already been. 00:05:41
Legally noticed. 00:05:46
So that way, like I said, there's not a delay in getting those. 00:05:47
Giving those. 00:05:52
Discussions taken care of. 00:05:53
Right. 00:05:56
No, sorry. That's it. That's actually I. 00:06:00
I've been a part of the Utah League of Cities and Towns where it's been taught to put on and had the clerks go back and forth as 00:06:03
to. 00:06:06
Why and how they? 00:06:09
How? By putting it on. 00:06:11
Every single week. 00:06:12
It makes it easier, you know, and you're just like, hey, because you follow the legal requirement means you can do it everything 00:06:14
but I think. 00:06:16
I like the idea. 00:06:20
Councilman. 00:06:21
Mccumber because it's like. 00:06:22
It's always there and citizens don't really know if we are or are not going to hold it. 00:06:25
And I would. 00:06:28
And I would rather. 00:06:29
It not be on the agenda even though it might. 00:06:30
Take a step just because I think. 00:06:34
The whole idea is that we're noticing. 00:06:37
That there is going to be 1. 00:06:39
Because it just sits there every week. 00:06:41
You know. 00:06:44
I don't. I think it's a loophole. 00:06:45
But I know. 00:06:48
Clerks around the state. 00:06:49
Half, or I mean it's about a mixed bag. 00:06:51
But I don't like it. 00:06:54
I'd rather it. 00:06:56
Hey, I've spoken with someone and we're actually doing it and and it means something because this doesn't. 00:06:57
It doesn't mean anything. It's just sitting there every day. 00:07:02
And that means it's like not really a notice. 00:07:04
Oh, sure. No, I mean, oh, absolutely. I sitting there every time that there's some ambiguity there and it, it, it makes me be for 00:07:08
some tension. 00:07:12
You know, if you see it on the agenda in here and you're wondering if it's going to be there or not, and so right, I can 00:07:16
definitely understand where. 00:07:19
Some of my colleagues too have mentioned that they that. 00:07:23
Is one of the reasons that they don't. 00:07:26
Place it on their agendas. So right, because citizens think like, oh, they're going to do it again, you know, and it's like, no, 00:07:27
it's just. 00:07:30
It ends up meaning nothing because it's on every single. 00:07:34
Week. 00:07:37
So that's my opinion. 00:07:40
You know Whorem does, Tony. 00:07:45
That I'm not I'm not sure on I other municipalities do they? 00:07:46
List. 00:07:51
A closed session on every. 00:07:52
I'm not sure on exactly which municipalities do that. 00:07:54
Sorry. 00:07:59
I'm fine getting rid of it, I mean, I think. 00:08:01
We had two in my time as city manager so. 00:08:03
We have them infrequently enough. 00:08:07
Here where we don't need to do it. 00:08:09
Even if other. I think it's commonplace for other entities to do it, but. 00:08:11
We have them so infrequently that I'd be fine without it. 00:08:14
I would. 00:08:17
Advocate for not. 00:08:19
If we need one. 00:08:23
To push the like, just have the closed session in two weeks when you can properly notice it. 00:08:25
Rather than uh. 00:08:30
Kind of moving forward without having a conversation that should have been had, but. 00:08:31
You mean like have us know beforehand? 00:08:35
Yes, if we like get into a discussion, it's like, oh, we need a closed session on this. 00:08:39
That we don't just say, well, we didn't notice it, so let's just pass it and then. 00:08:43
Not have the closed session. 00:08:47
Instead, just continue it two weeks, have the closed session, then discuss it, make the decision I don't think we run into. 00:08:48
Issues that are urgent enough. 00:08:54
We've ever really needed to add to that too. I think a lot of the times that. 00:08:56
That I have had closed sessions. In these meetings, it's usually something that is known ahead of time. It's an issue that. 00:09:00
You know is is known to be addressed. 00:09:07
I think. 00:09:09
That would be perfectly fine if you if the if the Council would prefer that we. 00:09:11
Just notice them as needed. That's. 00:09:16
Perfectly fine too. 00:09:19
At the end of the day, understanding. 00:09:21
I'd say whatever, whatever whoever's preparing the agenda wants to do. 00:09:23
That's great. 00:09:27
I know the mayor will, certainly. 00:09:28
Well, he's likely to go along with what we advise him to do. 00:09:30
So any. 00:09:34
Jacob, you have more comments. It's all I have been. 00:09:37
It's a work session, so we can't vote, right? 00:09:40
Right. But I would say though too, I mean it's more of an administrative. 00:09:42
Action. If the Council thinks that's what you would like to have me do, then I can start doing that moving forward. 00:09:48
No, I think putting it on as needed. 00:09:54
I think that's approved. 00:09:56
So I think the sense of the Council is we probably should do. 00:09:58
Do that. And so we've revised the mayor when he returns at. 00:10:01
That that's what we'd like to do and we'll. 00:10:05
See if he wants to go forward that way. All right, yeah, I'm sure he'll probably direct me to do that then next week. So. 00:10:08
Yeah. All right. 00:10:13
Thank you. 00:10:14
Appreciate that. 00:10:15
Are we going to do that for other agenda items like work sessions and? 00:10:16
Committee reports and stuff like that as well. 00:10:20
That might be helpful to. 00:10:23
Include those just. 00:10:24
If we're going to. 00:10:25
Like I see the section for committee reports, but we don't have any so. 00:10:27
You might as well. 00:10:30
Take those out unless the formatting is going to be difficult on that. 00:10:31
I think for. 00:10:33
Reports you leave it blank. 00:10:35
Because that was something that things are happening and. 00:10:37
You know, I had a meeting here. I had a meeting there. 00:10:40
I think that's a little bit different because it's just. 00:10:42
Disclosing things in a public meeting. 00:10:44
But I think like for work session I think you put none. 00:10:47
You know, so it's like clear, like. 00:10:51
Just so people know, there are none, you know? Yeah. Same with appointments like clean it up. 00:10:52
But then like on. 00:10:57
Council reports. 00:10:58
I don't know. 00:11:01
Kind of as needed. 00:11:02
Those are usually ad hoc. 00:11:03
Yeah, they're kind of ad hoc, like hey, I. 00:11:05
I've had this meeting and I think I need to. 00:11:06
Tell everyone that this meeting happened, you know, 'cause we're not allowed to have meetings. 00:11:08
Good comment. 00:11:16
OK, we'll advise the mayor such and it's. 00:11:17
Let's go ahead and move on then. 00:11:20
Do public comment. I'll be as next. 00:11:23
And so we'd like to invite those who would like to make a comment to the. 00:11:25
Council pleased to. 00:11:29
Come up and take the time you'd like and then address. 00:11:30
We, like you, address things hopefully there aren't on the. 00:11:34
Agenda. 00:11:36
But. 00:11:38
But whatever comedy feels appropriate, please. 00:11:39
Let us know. 00:11:42
Time limit. 00:11:45
OK, great. Thank you. 00:11:50
Darlene Price. 00:11:53
Just kind of to piggyback on what you are discussing back and forth. 00:11:55
As a member of the community, I would appreciate if that were at the end of the. 00:11:59
Think so that we're not sitting here while you are discussing something for hours perhaps. 00:12:04
And then come back. So either put it at the front. 00:12:09
And start the meeting at 6:30. 00:12:12
Or put it at the end. 00:12:15
So that's that's my $0.02 worth. 00:12:17
OK. 00:12:20
OK. 00:12:25
We had some others that wanted to speak as well. 00:12:27
Yeah, please. 00:12:31
Sarah Cameron. 00:12:37
Parkside. 00:12:39
So a few things. 00:12:42
On here. 00:12:43
I was made aware of. 00:12:45
That need to be. 00:12:49
Put on public record. 00:12:51
So you guys are starting? 00:12:54
With a bang. 00:12:57
As as we've been told online that nobody was fired, I'm just curious. 00:13:01
Where's Maria? 00:13:07
Where's cash? 00:13:09
Where's Morgan? Where's? 00:13:10
Secondly. 00:13:14
You guys have changed. 00:13:15
You guys have changed a lot of the policy. 00:13:18
And procedures that we had in. 00:13:20
Place that were designed to keep. 00:13:22
Staff protected and. 00:13:24
So I'm just going to read. 00:13:29
A summary of. 00:13:32
Yeah, some different citizens who are watching. 00:13:34
A power grab occurs when authority is pulled into fewer hands. 00:13:37
Safeguards are removed and the separation of power collapses without increasing accountability. 00:13:40
This new Title 3. 00:13:45
Amendments. 00:13:47
Does all of that. 00:13:48
The revisions to title. 00:13:49
3 Centralized authority by assigning all of you. 00:13:51
The role of chief administrative officer in different sections, blurring the lines of responsibility and eliminating. 00:13:54
The clear chain of command and separation of government. 00:14:01
You also gave yourselves appeal powers again and removed due process. 00:14:04
An unlimited legislature. 00:14:08
Not good for governance. 00:14:10
Governance. 00:14:11
When everyone is effectively the CEO, an appeal officer and legislator, no one is clearly accountable. 00:14:12
These changes bypass structures designed to create checks and balances and collapse the separation between policy administration. 00:14:19
Rather than increasing accountability. 00:14:26
You've reduced it. 00:14:28
The revisions also remove basic employee protections, including due process. 00:14:29
Protection from coercion. 00:14:34
Which, you know, is illegal in Utah. 00:14:35
And the ability to appeal changes to job duties, transfers and apparently legislative decisions regarding lower pay. 00:14:38
That creates legal risk and instability for city services. 00:14:44
What is happening now is a real power grab and it puts our city at risk. 00:14:48
Guardrails are being removed. 00:14:52
Limits on power weakened and political control expanded over daily operations. 00:14:54
The budget and Title 3 changes expand. Government costs destabilize. 00:14:59
Services and eliminate professional structures that keep government smaller and safer by. 00:15:03
Making it predictable, lawful and boring. 00:15:09
Removing these structures exposes the city to lawsuits and higher costs. 00:15:12
Rules of separation. 00:15:16
Rules, separation of powers and fair process protect taxpayers. 00:15:17
The prior code did that. 00:15:22
This new code removes these protections when guardrails disappear power. 00:15:24
Concentrates. Retaliation becomes easier and government becomes more expensive. 00:15:28
Chaotic and risky. 00:15:33
Local control works only when the mayor, manager and council each have defined. 00:15:34
Rolls and limits. 00:15:39
Decisions following clear rules and people treated fairly. 00:15:41
Strong leadership is not. 00:15:45
Unlimited power. 00:15:46
Retroactive rule changing. 00:15:47
Rule changes. 00:15:49
Or firing stuff without due process. 00:15:50
Good outcomes come from strong systems. 00:15:53
Not from who holds power. 00:15:55
That is what. 00:15:57
The original code protected. 00:15:58
And that is what is being taken away. 00:16:00
So redlined just this morning. 00:16:02
The protection from undue influence. 00:16:05
City staff this. 00:16:08
This is. 00:16:09
What the original code said. 00:16:10
City staff shall be protected from undue pressure. 00:16:12
Or influence in the performance of their duties. 00:16:14
Any attempts by council members to coerce or unduly influence staff decisions or actions. 00:16:17
That contrarying. 00:16:22
Professional standards cities. 00:16:23
City policies or ethical guidelines? 00:16:25
Would be subject to review and possible action by the City Council. 00:16:28
Or appropriate. 00:16:32
Oversight body. 00:16:33
The city manager shall establish A confidential process for staff to report concerns about inappropriate interactions or 00:16:34
directives from council members ensuing. 00:16:39
These concerns can be addressed without fear. 00:16:44
Or retaliation. 00:16:47
No way is. 00:16:49
This has been redlined and is stricken from our code. 00:16:50
In no way is this good governance or ethical in nature. 00:16:54
Your job is legislative. 00:16:57
Legislative. 00:16:58
Not to be directors. 00:16:59
Or the other Cao. 00:17:01
It is to treat people with respect, not coercion. 00:17:02
And support the healthy grievance process. 00:17:05
It makes me think you are trying to remove the law. 00:17:08
That would have caused you. 00:17:10
That would have caused you to protect the grievances submitted. 00:17:11
I also have a serious concern. 00:17:16
For the fact that when I was sitting up in that chair. 00:17:18
You had. 00:17:21
Jake especially. 00:17:24
A big problem with. 00:17:26
With a new pump truck. 00:17:28
That was coming. 00:17:29
At the cost of. 00:17:31
I think we discovered after the turn in it would have been 460,000. 00:17:32
You have almost half $1,000,000 in budget amendments here to cover. 00:17:37
The salaries of the severances that have been paid half a million. 00:17:41
You've only been sitting up here for two weeks. 00:17:45
And half a million a budget adjudgment so you can have people that align with you politically. 00:17:47
That's a huge problem in my site. 00:17:53
So that's all I have to say. 00:17:55
Thank you for your comment. 00:17:59
Chip Price, Providence. 00:18:03
I just want to stand up here and also have. 00:18:06
Publicly, on the record that elections have consequences. 00:18:08
And when people stand up and make their votes heard. 00:18:12
Then the action of those individuals who are elected. 00:18:16
To follow through with the things that they're asking them to do. 00:18:19
The people who did not vote for those people, it is fine for them to be in a disagreement with that. 00:18:23
But those people who actually had power to sit in the chairs and make those decisions? 00:18:28
Are the people sitting here in this council? 00:18:34
I have been at every single City Council since you guys have been in office. 00:18:36
And. 00:18:41
I want you to say that. 00:18:41
That the things that you guys have stood for and the things that you ran on. 00:18:44
Those are the things that you guys are putting in and acting into place. 00:18:51
And so. 00:18:54
Elections do have consequences, and if code is changed, that's the nature of your business. 00:18:55
Change code. 00:19:01
Reform Government. 00:19:03
And put it on a different trajectory. 00:19:04
Not everybody's going to like that. 00:19:06
And I think that's fine. 00:19:08
Karen Cornelius Villas. 00:19:27
First of all I want to thank you. 00:19:29
For last. 00:19:31
Week's meeting. 00:19:32
Where we talked about involving the public more. 00:19:33
With the things that take place in Vineyard on allowing the public and the citizens. 00:19:37
To volunteer and create. 00:19:42
More of a sense of community than having everything. 00:19:44
Done through the City Hall. Not that they've done a bad job. 00:19:47
That's not what I'm saying at all. 00:19:51
But I think there's some really fun and exciting things that we can bring out, bring about as a result of that. 00:19:52
I also would like to piggyback on what ship just said elections do have consequences. 00:19:59
I would also like to bring up. 00:20:05
On the front page of our agenda every week. 00:20:09
We read whenever raising comments. 00:20:12
Whenever making comments. 00:20:15
Whether during public comment period or public hearing. 00:20:17
Or an informal basis. Citizens are expected to address the issue. 00:20:21
And not address an individual. 00:20:26
We have someone in the audience. 00:20:28
That both times she has addressed the Council. 00:20:30
She has. 00:20:33
Dictated her remarks. 00:20:35
To one particular council member. 00:20:37
Always in a condemning fashion. 00:20:40
And she? 00:20:43
Was one of those who voted in. 00:20:44
This very statement that we find on here. 00:20:46
And I think it's important. 00:20:49
That we. 00:20:51
Have that respect. 00:20:52
That is found in that code of conduct. 00:20:54
That was put together. 00:20:57
By our previous council. 00:20:59
Hopefully. 00:21:01
We will make some changes because it doesn't seem to be working. 00:21:02
I would also like to. 00:21:06
Address the fact. 00:21:08
That there has been a meeting held regarding grandma. 00:21:09
In Salt Lake. 00:21:14
Regarding one of our current Council members. 00:21:16
Who was never. 00:21:19
Told about this meeting, never given a chance to represent himself. 00:21:21
Either by. 00:21:26
The recorder. 00:21:28
The assistant. 00:21:29
Or the formal former councilperson. 00:21:31
Who brought these charges against them? 00:21:34
So for someone to stand up here and say we need transparency, we need to be open, we need to be honest in government. 00:21:37
I think this was really a poor. 00:21:43
Poor, poor showing of how we are open. 00:21:45
With the rights of the. 00:21:51
Government documents. 00:21:54
So that's what I would like to share today, but I appreciate what you guys are doing. 00:21:56
To bring about the change. 00:22:02
That we, the citizens of Vineyard. 00:22:04
Voted for. Thank you. 00:22:07
Thank you. 00:22:10
Tim Blackburn, Sleepy Ridge. 00:22:18
Do I look sleepy? 00:22:20
I'll just sleep on the Ridge. 00:22:22
It is a pleasure to be here with you tonight and I would just encourage you, council members. 00:22:24
To speak up. 00:22:28
I don't know if it's just my age. 00:22:30
But I'm having a hard time hearing some of your comments. 00:22:32
So when you do address things, talk among yourselves. It's more than just talking among yourselves. We try to hear you too. So. 00:22:35
Please speak up. 00:22:43
So that we can. 00:22:44
Understand you as well. 00:22:45
The two points that I would like to bring up tonight. 00:22:46
Several years ago. 00:22:50
It was brought to our attention, my attention. 00:22:53
That. 00:22:56
In order to be. 00:22:57
In order to die. 00:22:59
In Vineyard. 00:23:00
And be buried. 00:23:02
In some place close by. 00:23:03
The only cemeteries we had were in. 00:23:05
Provo, Aurum. 00:23:08
Pleasant Grove. 00:23:10
American Fork. 00:23:11
And so on. 00:23:12
And I don't know if you know or not. 00:23:13
But in order for those of us in Vineyard to be buried in one of those cemeteries. 00:23:16
It costs nearly twice as much as it does a resident of those cities. 00:23:20
Because we don't pay taxes into those cities. 00:23:25
So several years ago. 00:23:28
The Vineyard Heritage Foundation put together a project and presented it to the City Council. 00:23:30
And we did some research on what would it take to. 00:23:36
To create a cemetery in Vineyard. 00:23:39
Because we like to promote this city as being from birth to grave. 00:23:42
You know, start and end here, buy and keep, keep going up. We've had quite a few deaths in Vineyard. 00:23:46
Over the last. 00:23:53
Seven or eight years, some very small, some older individuals. 00:23:54
They would have all loved. 00:23:58
To be buried in Vineyard. 00:23:59
So at that time, several years ago, we made a proposal that some land be set aside. 00:24:01
For the creation of a. 00:24:07
Cemetery and vineyard we don't need a lot of our research showed that we don't need much land. 00:24:09
About two acres. 00:24:14
Is about it. 00:24:15
To be able to bury a lot of people. 00:24:16
So the the last City Council. 00:24:19
Kind of talked about it. 00:24:22
And I think maybe even looked at a few parcels around. 00:24:24
But I'm just saying this to the new City Council. 00:24:28
As a way to. 00:24:32
Let's continue that movement forward. 00:24:33
And let's see if we can't identify a parcel of land that could be used for a vineyard cemetery. 00:24:35
Whatever it's going to be called. 00:24:42
That's point #1. 00:24:43
Second, also looking to the future. 00:24:45
We need a post office. 00:24:48
And Vineyard. 00:24:49
Have you ever been to a little community in in Utah? 00:24:50
500 people. 600 people. 00:24:54
They have post offices. 00:24:56
We have nearly. 00:24:58
20,000 moving in that direction. 00:24:59
And we're still using the Orem post office. 00:25:01
It seems to me that we should be able. 00:25:04
To come up with her own post office. 00:25:06
It doesn't cost the city money. 00:25:09
But what it does take is your active support to our federal delegations, our senators and representatives, because they're the 00:25:11
ones that are going to ultimately have to push this through because it's a presidentially. 00:25:17
Created. 00:25:23
Thing in our community. 00:25:24
So it doesn't cost us money to do. 00:25:26
But it would be great to have. 00:25:28
In our community. 00:25:30
Thank you very much. 00:25:31
Thank you. 00:25:33
Any other comments? 00:25:36
All right, I'd like to. 00:25:41
Close public comments, right? 00:25:43
I have a public comment as a citizen, but are you gonna make me walk up there? Because I'd rather face that way. 00:25:45
I think you can go ahead and make it here, OK. 00:25:50
Just because I. 00:25:53
I think it's important to be transparent and. 00:25:55
State your name. My name is Jake Holdaway. 00:26:01
Resident of Vineyard. 00:26:03
I'd like to talk to the Vineyard staff. 00:26:08
But also to the citizens. 00:26:10
I'm not going to use names. I know names have been employees have been brought out. 00:26:13
So I'll keep those confidential, but I want to share an update to our employees and to the citizens. 00:26:17
To be honest with you, Vineyard is extremely blessed to have the many hard working staff that we do. 00:26:23
I've had about 8 reach out to me. 00:26:29
And say thank you. 00:26:32
This past week. 00:26:34
For protecting them and for thanking them. 00:26:35
Or. 00:26:39
For everything that Mayor Stratton is doing, and that's been a. 00:26:40
I've never had that. 00:26:44
My 2 years of service. 00:26:45
I just want to say their dedication, professionalism and service to our community. 00:26:47
Is. 00:26:52
100% deserved. 00:26:52
And the sincere recognition for their gratitude because their calls were cool. 00:26:56
I'd love to have a better relationship as. 00:27:01
As in the last two years. 00:27:03
There were policies in place where. 00:27:04
That prohibited that and I'm excited to be able to work more. 00:27:07
In the past couple weeks. 00:27:11
There was a false claim by our previous city attorney that. 00:27:14
And a few citizens online that amplified false accusations. 00:27:17
That many in city employees had been fired within 24 or 48 hours. 00:27:22
And that there were mass layoffs that were going to happen. 00:27:26
Nobody to date. 00:27:30
Has been fired. 00:27:31
Yeah, because of this false information from. 00:27:33
Prominent leader in the city as our attorney many. 00:27:36
Really good, loyal employees. 00:27:40
Would feel bad. 00:27:42
It would be a very. 00:27:44
Troubling situation to feel like hey, I'm going to lose my job, right? 00:27:45
People that we care about. 00:27:51
We're scared and unnecessarily put in. 00:27:52
To uncomfortable situations. 00:27:55
For context, this past year our city experienced a very meaningful election season. 00:27:58
As Chip mentioned, and voters were presented with two very distinct approaches for the future of the city. 00:28:05
And obviously the citizens made those priorities clear. 00:28:12
I want to defend Mayor Stratton. 00:28:15
And our new City Council when elected on a platform of greater transparency. 00:28:18
In many processes. 00:28:23
Lower taxes and a smaller, efficient government. 00:28:25
A smaller sometimes means that. 00:28:28
You're making cuts. 00:28:30
To people. 00:28:31
And they really are people. 00:28:32
And. 00:28:37
I can't tell you how. 00:28:38
Responsible and serious and committed to carrying out thoughtful and respectful conversations. 00:28:40
When Mayor Stratton would call me, it was tough. 00:28:47
And as part of any transition in in strong leadership, it is normal. 00:28:50
And best practice for a mayor and council to review every department head. 00:28:55
See how their departments. 00:29:00
Are organized. 00:29:02
And how those leaderships are. 00:29:04
Align with the direct. 00:29:05
The direction that the mayor supported. 00:29:08
Now the mayor does not did not have the authority to make any leadership changes quickly. 00:29:11
So there was nobody that was fired. 00:29:16
But his approach was very Christlike and centered. 00:29:19
Instead, Mayor Stratton was kind, careful, private and respectful. He has taken time to meet. 00:29:23
With us as a City Council to hear our priorities as being elected, that never happened. 00:29:30
When I was elected. 00:29:36
For him to sit down with each one of us. 00:29:38
Meant a lot to me. 00:29:40
He included. 00:29:43
After those conversations, he met individually with department heads to share that vision, to listen, to learn, and to share his 00:29:44
vision for the next chapter of Vineyard. 00:29:49
He included the human resources. 00:29:54
Director to ensure best practices and to record and make sure. 00:29:57
Things were set straight. 00:30:01
I want to apologize for our human resource director because she was in those meetings. 00:30:04
She was accused that there were mass firings and I called her immediately and she's like nobody's been fired. 00:30:08
Two witnesses in the same meetings. 00:30:14
It can be uncomfortable. 00:30:18
Now I recognize. 00:30:21
And I hope we all can recognize that this kind of direct communication. 00:30:24
During a political transition can feel very personal. 00:30:29
And uncertain, especially for employees that we love. 00:30:34
And who are dedicated many years to our city. 00:30:38
As we talk to him, it's a tough situation. 00:30:41
So. 00:30:43
Balancing transparency and. 00:30:44
Personal conversation. 00:30:46
Stations are tough. 00:30:48
But. 00:30:52
When asked to reapply. 00:30:55
Or to. 00:30:58
Approach the Council. 00:30:59
Of reapplying. 00:31:02
Even if they are amazing, considering employees, I can understand how that can feel. 00:31:04
Difficult like why would I need to reapply? 00:31:08
And it's extremely unfortunate. 00:31:13
To be honest with you. 00:31:15
That some of those personal conversations. 00:31:17
Intended to be handled and an individual respectful and helping them professionally. 00:31:21
Were shared. 00:31:27
In public, in ways that were incomplete. 00:31:28
Misleading. Untrue. 00:31:30
I made sure to verify this with the HR director. 00:31:34
This kind of misinformation has harmed public trust. 00:31:38
It makes our our other employees feel very insecure. 00:31:42
It damages the cities reputation. 00:31:46
And creates unnecessary stressful environment for all the rest of the employees that this doesn't affect, which are the vast 00:31:49
majority. 00:31:52
And candidly, when private conversations meant to help. 00:31:57
Those those employees are discussed and taken out of context and turned into false public narratives. 00:32:02
It actually reinforces the election results. 00:32:08
And why those difficult conversations need to happen in the first place? 00:32:11
It confirms. 00:32:17
That a very careful, direct and perversional approach that Mayor Stratton had taken is not only appropriate, but it was necessary. 00:32:18
Now. 00:32:28
It is never our intent of the Council to diminish anyone's contributions over the many years. 00:32:29
It's to ensure that the organization is aligned with the goals that residents voted for. 00:32:35
So changes are not a. 00:32:41
Direct reflection of their bad behavior or poor performance is just the direction that the city is going to go. 00:32:43
That they feel. 00:32:51
And so our intent is never to diminish anyone's contributions, especially for many great years of service. 00:32:52
It's just to ensure that the organization is aligned with the goals that residents voted for. 00:32:59
Top to bottom in the organization. 00:33:05
The one thing that we do want to mention? 00:33:09
Is that yes, the department heads serve at the will. 00:33:11
And the consent of the Council. 00:33:14
All of them. 00:33:17
Have always been welcome to reapply. 00:33:20
If they felt so. 00:33:22
But those difficult conversations or things that. 00:33:23
Didn't align were brought up with them. 00:33:26
I believe the mayor and the council's goals can be preserved while still treating employees with dignity, fairness and gratitude. 00:33:31
And I've thought about this. 00:33:39
If those individual employees would like to be a part of public record, then that conversation could happen. But secondhand 00:33:40
stories coming up. 00:33:44
We don't know if their intent and if they want to be thrown out publicly. 00:33:48
So unless they're here. 00:33:52
I don't know if that should be discussed here. 00:33:54
If that makes sense. That's why I'm not using names, but it's hard to balance transparency. 00:33:56
With also. 00:34:01
You know the the privacy of an individual citizen. 00:34:03
The last thing I want to say is. 00:34:07
Vineyard employees matter. 00:34:11
I've met with Stephanie, our HR director, who is incredible. 00:34:15
I apologize for the incomplete information that is shared on social media that hurt the rest of our staff. 00:34:20
The impact that that might have had on your families. 00:34:28
Because your work matters. 00:34:31
And as we move forward, our goal is to lead with professionalism. 00:34:33
Compassion and respect for both the people who serve our city and the residents that elected us. 00:34:38
And for the vast majority of the hard working staff of Vineyard, I just want to say, and I know the mayor believes it, thank you. 00:34:44
I believe and trust. 00:34:51
Mayor Stratton. 00:34:53
Many people could say, oh, just. 00:34:55
Bring them out and vote and get rid of them. 00:34:57
He took the time over a very long period to have difficult conversations. 00:34:59
And that type of respect. So I look forward to serving what this is again. 00:35:03
That's my public comment. 00:35:08
Thank you. 00:35:11
Let's close public comments then. 00:35:13
And then I. 00:35:15
I want to go over a couple of responses to the comments I wanted to say to. 00:35:17
Miss Price, who just left a minute ago. Sorry. 00:35:21
We will advise the mayor that the. 00:35:24
Closed sessions, when we have them, should go. 00:35:27
At the end of the meeting. 00:35:30
So as not to not to keep the people here longer than they need to be. 00:35:31
Sarah Cameron has also left now. But I wanted to, I wanted to tell her that. 00:35:36
She mentioned various staff people weren't here tonight. 00:35:41
And normally would be here. 00:35:44
And they've chosen. 00:35:45
To not come for their own reasons. They they have not been fired, they are still. 00:35:48
You know, they're still employed here, they still have jobs and so. 00:35:52
That's. 00:35:55
I understand there's a lot of changes happening and they may not be happy with all of them. 00:35:57
But they are still. 00:36:01
You know, they could have been here if they wanted to. 00:36:04
So that was so that's that. 00:36:06
As far as safeguards being removed in the different in the government. 00:36:09
In the government, what the changes we're making tonight? 00:36:13
We will be talking at a great deal. 00:36:16
The great length about the changes we want to make to the to Title 2 and title three of our code, which deals with the powers of 00:36:19
the of the Mayor and the Council. 00:36:23
And there there have been last minute changes. 00:36:27
Couple times today. 00:36:31
So we expect that there'll be more as we talk about them. 00:36:32
So that's not all. 00:36:36
All done. 00:36:37
As far as safeguards being removed, I would I would recommend that. 00:36:38
That we remember. 00:36:42
That all, all authority from from us for a city comes from the state and they have vested it in the City Council. 00:36:43
And the City Council vests it where they choose. 00:36:50
And at least that's my understanding and our attorney will correct me if I'm wrong about that. 00:36:53
Anyway, and so that's. 00:36:59
But but, but we'll have that discussion as we go on. 00:37:00
And please take notes. And so if you have any questions about that, let us know about it afterwards or. 00:37:03
I'm prepared next time with comments either way. 00:37:10
There's I think. 00:37:16
Pretty much. That's almost sort of summarizes her things. 00:37:18
Chip, thank you. Elections do have consequences and we're trying to make them good ones. 00:37:21
He's gone also. Sorry. 00:37:24
Karen. 00:37:26
We try to, we're going to try to live up to the code of conduct. 00:37:30
We will. We'll try to do that. Thank you. 00:37:33
And as far and we'll also be learning more about grammar laws and how to observe them. And we promise to do that. 00:37:36
Tim, thank you for the reminder about the cemetery. We do want to pursue that. 00:37:44
And that's something we can have conversations about, I think, the Vineyard Heritage Foundation. 00:37:48
Might be able to help us with that. 00:37:53
So let's keep that in the forefront so we can. 00:37:55
So you make that happen. 00:37:57
And also. 00:38:01
Great idea, let's pursue that too. 00:38:02
And then? 00:38:05
And Jake, thank you very much for the for going over the. 00:38:06
The situation with the employees, I just want to say that all the people who work for the City of Vineyard, we really appreciate 00:38:09
all the work you've done and all you're doing now. 00:38:14
And we want you to understand that we're doing our best to make this transition happen as smoothly as we can. 00:38:18
Unfortunately, it's we've run to some several roadblocks. 00:38:24
We're trying to work through those in the most. 00:38:27
Well, in the most gracious way, we can't. 00:38:31
And and so we'll continue to do that. 00:38:33
Anyway, but thank you very much for your comments and then we'll. 00:38:36
And if you have anything else, let us know afterwards please. 00:38:39
OK, next on the agenda. 00:38:43
Let's see next page. 00:38:46
OK, so. 00:38:51
Reports. 00:38:52
Can I? Are you going, Ezra? 00:38:54
I was No, you're good. 00:38:57
So any reports or yeah can I share please? I have one. 00:38:59
Yeah, go ahead, Parker, you're on. 00:39:02
OK, two that I wanted to bring up. 00:39:05
Previously or earlier in the week? 00:39:09
And Taylor reached out to me about getting a post office for Vineyard. 00:39:11
I just wanted to share I had reached out to the. 00:39:16
USPS and asked about that process. 00:39:19
They notified me that it starts with the city and the City Council. 00:39:22
And that we would need to designate land and have a land or a building assigned for a post office to take it to them to start that 00:39:26
process. 00:39:30
That's about as far as I've gotten in understanding how that process goes, but it starts with us, not with. 00:39:36
The USPS, not with the. 00:39:41
Federal government. 00:39:42
It was there and then. 00:39:44
After our conversation last week on code enforcement. 00:39:46
Or sorry on parking. 00:39:49
The most prevalent? 00:39:52
Comments that I've received has been about cities code enforcement. 00:39:53
Even. 00:39:59
David Pierce, who's here with us tonight, had brought up that that's. 00:40:00
A large contributing factor to parking issues in the city. 00:40:03
To try and get a better understanding of that, I reached out to. 00:40:09
Maria, she's listed as the code enforcement. 00:40:12
Officer on the. 00:40:15
City's website. 00:40:17
I haven't been able to get a response from her yet, so I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this, but Eric, could you just. 00:40:18
Make sure that I get an e-mail back from her eventually that has. 00:40:24
What I was asking for specifically is the process. 00:40:28
That code enforcement goes through right now, so. 00:40:31
What does it look like from receiving a complaint? 00:40:34
Through uh. 00:40:36
Does the city actually have? 00:40:38
A mechanism for fines or fees, or some kind of enforcement. 00:40:40
Does the Sheriff's Department ever have to get involved with that? I just don't understand the process well enough to. 00:40:44
Make an informed or educated decision. When it comes to deliberating, you know the best. 00:40:50
Way to proceed with that. So I'd like to understand that process more. 00:40:55
Thank you. That's what I had. 00:40:59
I have two things I. 00:41:03
I had a conversation with Seth that the state auditors office about his desire to come and. 00:41:07
Clear up some confusion about grandma. 00:41:13
Which is awesome, I've been wanting this for quite some time. 00:41:16
And a lot of things have happened in the past couple years. 00:41:19
Where things have been misconstrued about their office and he said I would like to come and. 00:41:22
Set the record straight and so. 00:41:28
If it's OK with the council, he would like to come not this Tuesday, but the following Tuesday. 00:41:30
A week from today. 00:41:35
Unless there's not a council meeting. So in two weeks. 00:41:38
We'll have to check the schedule, OK. 00:41:40
So yeah, the next City Council meeting, but it went really well. He has some issues with. 00:41:42
The way in which our previous city attorney. 00:41:50
Interpreted quite a few things and so if we have any questions and I added some of the. 00:41:52
Public comments. 00:41:58
From last that they said that they would. 00:41:59
Be more than willing to address. 00:42:01
Also. 00:42:03
To report back, David Larae and I met with the. 00:42:04
Other auditor. 00:42:08
Of. 00:42:09
Chris. 00:42:09
Of our independent auditor. 00:42:11
For two hours, 3 hours, 2 1/2 hours. 00:42:14
With the mayor. 00:42:17
I would I would describe it as extremely productive. This is the audit of the RDA. 00:42:18
He will based off of his findings. 00:42:25
He did not. 00:42:28
We were able to give him some context of history. 00:42:29
Some. 00:42:33
Context. 00:42:34
And documents and working with. 00:42:36
Our current city attorney. 00:42:38
He will be. 00:42:41
We felt that we would want to bring it to you guys to. 00:42:42
Have add him to. 00:42:46
An agenda I believe it was for this coming Tuesday as well as a week from today. So those two, but. 00:42:48
If we have to move it to the next two. 00:42:53
There's there's a lot of things that. 00:42:58
In the initial conversation. 00:43:01
It looked like there will need to be more digging and and and and another audit. 00:43:03
I just wanted to prepare the Council for that, in terms of what things. 00:43:08
He considered. 00:43:12
To look at, he's putting together a price. 00:43:14
Proposal of what that is and it would change. 00:43:17
In in scope and he's going to. 00:43:20
Come back and present that. 00:43:22
To us. 00:43:23
So I would advise. 00:43:24
Maybe meeting with him? 00:43:26
I don't think he's ready, but individually meeting and understanding a little bit more on that. 00:43:28
And then be ready. 00:43:33
For the public comment. 00:43:34
Period for the citizens to see that presentation. 00:43:36
OK, thanks. 00:43:40
Jacob. 00:43:41
Nothing. OK. 00:43:42
Ezra. 00:43:43
Just the railroad has received its 10%. 00:43:46
Plan. 00:43:51
We're excited about that moving forward. They've given us permission to move on to the 25% design. 00:43:53
Design plans. So this is for the project removing the rail spur that's separating us between. 00:43:58
Vineyard Norm right now, so. 00:44:04
Excited to see that project hit a substantial milestone there and continue to move forward. 00:44:06
So what are next steps? 00:44:10
Help us understand a little more of their next steps after that. So we're going to move from the 10% designs to the 25% designs 00:44:11
and then from there it's. 00:44:15
50 and then 75 it's it's a long. 00:44:19
Planning and design process. Since it's small federal, it's just a matter of what it takes to remove the rails or and. 00:44:22
Level the Lander, that sort of thing. You're yeah, basically. So we've got. 00:44:28
The 10% design, which is. 00:44:33
Somewhat conceptual at this point. I mean, it's a real design it has. 00:44:35
Actual umm. 00:44:40
Engineering behind it. 00:44:41
And so there's a next step to just further that and. 00:44:43
Added. 00:44:46
Additional. 00:44:47
Calculations and more specifics. And so it'll keep going down that road for. 00:44:48
Thank you. That's. 00:44:53
That's way cool. I mean, I. 00:44:54
We need that a big way. 00:44:56
Eric, you. 00:45:00
Comment just one additional point to that. Thanks for bringing that up that that was exciting. Getting to the 10% might not sound 00:45:01
like a lot, but that's a. 00:45:04
Huge hurdle along with the 10% approval from. 00:45:09
UPR. 00:45:12
Will come a memorandum of understanding. 00:45:13
That. 00:45:16
Sets all of our expectations of what that rail removal and realignment. 00:45:17
Will look like. 00:45:22
And opens the door for us to seek federal funding. 00:45:23
State funding. 00:45:27
For the. 00:45:28
Construction side of that project, right now we have funding for the. 00:45:29
Full design and environmental. 00:45:33
Permitting of that project. 00:45:37
But we'll need to round up. 00:45:39
A substantial amount of funding for. 00:45:41
The construction. 00:45:44
Of the new rail and the removal of the. 00:45:45
Previous rail. So this is a huge step and really kind of opens the door for us to get those. 00:45:47
Funds aligned through. 00:45:53
Federal grants, federal appropriations, and state appropriations as well. 00:45:55
That's great. I've been hearing about this project for at least the last 12 years. 00:46:00
It's nice to see you moving. 00:46:04
Cool. OK. And I just wanted to say that I was. 00:46:07
We had an excellent meeting with the with the RDA subcommittee. 00:46:10
And we're. 00:46:14
We will be we, I received. 00:46:15
Today, a bid from Chris Harding, the auditor. And so we'll be. 00:46:17
Pursuing, getting funding for that and then pursuing with. 00:46:21
Proceeding with that. 00:46:25
So that's that's in process. 00:46:26
Can I get a report on just the staffing subcommittee too? 00:46:29
Will we sub? 00:46:32
Review 1:00 We we have, we met with the mayor and we've and we've. 00:46:35
And he's asked us basically to let him meet with people with HR and sort of feel that that process out and so. 00:46:39
We've we. 00:46:46
Jacob and I are working on a. 00:46:48
On a mission statement, mission statement for the city, basically so we can so people who apply will know what their you know 00:46:50
what? 00:46:54
What they're applying for and what they're. 00:46:57
Sort of getting into. 00:46:59
And then and also if we wanted also we talked. 00:47:00
We've talked about process. 00:47:04
The what the interview process would look like like. 00:47:05
You know, step one, Step 2 and you know. 00:47:08
That kind of thing. 00:47:10
So that's. 00:47:11
That's just a conceptual thing. 00:47:13
That's where we are with it. 00:47:15
There, that's OK. 00:47:18
Cool. 00:47:19
Right, so that's those are the Council. 00:47:20
Reports. 00:47:24
Any staff or committee reports? 00:47:25
Merrick, none for today. Thank you. OK. 00:47:29
Cool. 00:47:34
OK, so we have a consent item. 00:47:35
We have the minutes from the January 14th, 2026 Council meeting. 00:47:36
I would accept. 00:47:42
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:47:44
2nd. 00:47:48
OK. Firstly, Parker, second by. 00:47:50
By Jacob. 00:47:52
Would do we have? 00:47:53
Wood, sorry. 00:47:55
And this is just an up or down vote, correct Tony? 00:47:58
That's correct. 00:48:01
OK, all in favor say aye. Any opposed? 00:48:02
Unanimously approved. 00:48:06
OK, there are no appointments or removals. 00:48:08
For our business items, our first one is the Municipal Code Title 2 and Title 3 amendments, discussion and actions. We're going to 00:48:11
invite our City Attorney, Jesse Riddle to. 00:48:15
Come forward and lead us in a discussion. 00:48:20
Through that and and. 00:48:22
Should be a lively discussion. 00:48:25
Can I share a context? 00:48:28
With the city real quick. 00:48:29
So. 00:48:31
You may recall that we. 00:48:32
In the previous election had voted to change our form of city government. 00:48:36
And the. 00:48:41
Changes to our city code now. 00:48:43
That we're going to be discussing are largely in. 00:48:45
Correlation to that we're moving to A6 member that's. 00:48:48
The five councils and the mayor. The mayor is. 00:48:52
Predominantly a non voting member. 00:48:54
And so the way that this has been. 00:48:57
Done to my understanding, is largely that we've drawn. 00:48:59
Best practices from the surrounding cities that run. 00:49:02
This form of government. 00:49:06
It's also I want to point out. 00:49:09
That I find it strange, but the. 00:49:11
That you get to control that like it's pretty. It's a pretty cool. 00:49:13
Opportunity, right for them to sit down and say where should the power and authority be held? 00:49:18
And that there is so many difference. There's what, 36,000 cities in America and you have to go to that city's code. 00:49:23
To kind of find out where that authority meets. And so I would invite citizens to look through. There's been a lot of. 00:49:31
Thoughtful. 00:49:37
Things that have been put in place. 00:49:38
What an awesome opportunity in America it is to have to sit down and go. 00:49:40
These are the ordinances that which we believe would govern us. 00:49:45
And they're different. 00:49:49
It was mentioned earlier tonight about. 00:49:50
The change in some of the powers. 00:49:53
Just for the understanding of the citizens. 00:49:55
Largely, this is a move to. 00:49:59
Make the mayor, the executive officer of the city and the council to be the legislative body and that's kind of the intent behind 00:50:02
the the move. So there's a clear separation of power with checks and balances. 00:50:07
So those very things that we heard about, complaints about, we're trying to address with this code. 00:50:14
So I'm sorry. 00:50:20
Please to give. 00:50:22
The members of the public. 00:50:23
Brief understanding of my experience I was hard by Orem, the city of Orem to be their legislative council and largely. 00:50:25
My responsibility was working on state code. 00:50:34
That represented what the City Council desired and also working on. 00:50:37
The city code. 00:50:42
So for example, you may remember. 00:50:44
Prop 2 was the school district split. 00:50:46
So the state code was not very clear and so I made a lot of. 00:50:51
Amendments to the Code and submitted to the Legislature. 00:50:56
And at that period most of my amendments were adopted by the legislature. 00:50:59
Just to clarify the state code and to make it. 00:51:05
More clear for a city or a group of cities to split. 00:51:08
After. 00:51:13
Alpine. 00:51:15
After the split was put on the ballot by the three and three districts were created. 00:51:17
I was contacted by the state legislature and say now what? 00:51:22
And. 00:51:25
Alpine, for example, could not bond. 00:51:26
And yet we know that they need schools out West and so. 00:51:29
I talked to. 00:51:33
City officials, the Legislature and said what? 00:51:34
Here's some of the issues I see. What do you see? 00:51:37
And. 00:51:40
And and literally I looked at every state code to see what happened. 00:51:41
As far as the school district split and there were probably about 5 codes that dealt with it a lot of. 00:51:46
States do it by county, so there's not a split, but there were some codes that were very. 00:51:53
Informative, for example. 00:52:00
I never thought of this, but who keeps the records of Alpine School District after they're dissolved? 00:52:02
And the answer. 00:52:08
Was the legislature gets to decide, but one code had said. 00:52:09
That the school district where this. 00:52:13
Offices of the school district are currently located of Alpine School District and that's what the legislature adopted. 00:52:16
The school district that had the most students they could have done the school district with the most value. 00:52:23
But they elected to keep it at the are where the data center. 00:52:29
Center was located which would be in Linden. 00:52:32
But they elected so. 00:52:35
Those are the things legislators have to decide. 00:52:36
With my changes tonight, I've spoken to every council member in the mayor. 00:52:40
To ask your opinions about which way you want to go. And I want the public to know I feel like Moses coming down the mountain with 00:52:45
the tablets. 00:52:48
I didn't create the tablets. I heard there were 15 commandments. Moses looked at the people and threw one down and it broke. 00:52:52
And now we were with 10, so I'm just Moses delivering. 00:52:59
What the council has asked me to deliver and every council member is made very. 00:53:03
Insightful comments. In fact, Councilmember Nair and I spoke this afternoon and I actually in my latest version that you haven't 00:53:09
gotten I've I've incorporated. 00:53:15
His changes because I think his changes were very relevant and were overlooked by me. 00:53:21
So. 00:53:26
The way the. 00:53:28
The government works in A6 member council. I think the mayor has no vote except in limited circumstances and those limited 00:53:28
circumstances if whenever you are absent and there's a tie, the mayor. 00:53:34
Has the right to vote. 00:53:39
Or if you grant to the mayor power. 00:53:41
And then you attempt to take it away. The mayor has a right to vote in. 00:53:44
That setting. 00:53:48
The way the. 00:53:49
The Utah law is structured is the City Council. 00:53:50
Is both the legislative? 00:53:54
Body and. 00:53:56
You administer through the city. 00:53:57
You have several options when you administer the city. You can have a city manager administer the city. 00:53:59
You can each do it. If you want to run the city, you can assign. 00:54:05
Everyone of you could be over a department. 00:54:09
And that's permitted in the code. 00:54:11
You can have the mayor run the city. 00:54:13
And those are the options that you have to administer the city. 00:54:16
And so when? 00:54:20
When you've heard. 00:54:22
That this is a. 00:54:23
Power grab. Actually, the legislature has given the legislature. 00:54:24
The body. 00:54:28
All the power. 00:54:30
And I actually put a kind of a comment on the side is once you give. 00:54:31
The power to. 00:54:36
The mayor. 00:54:38
Not necessarily the city manager, but the mayor is very difficult to get power back. 00:54:39
Because it has to be a unanimous vote of the council or it has to be a majority of the vote of the council with the mayor. 00:54:44
Willing to give the power back. So it's very difficult, so I would. 00:54:52
Admonish the council to be very deliberate and what powers you want to give to anybody that administers the city. But right now 00:54:57
you hold that power. 00:55:01
So the first couple pages are actually just changes that. 00:55:06
That are made regarding. 00:55:10
That we're making these changes in the code. 00:55:12
And when we really get into the code, we get into. 00:55:15
Section 202. 00:55:18
Which? 00:55:20
Talks about what? 00:55:21
Utah law says. 00:55:22
Just as. 00:55:24
A point of order. 00:55:25
Do we want to go page by page and stay in order? 00:55:26
As things come up. 00:55:28
Or do we want to just jump around? 00:55:30
I'd love to go page by page. I think there's enough here that. 00:55:32
It would be helpful to just. 00:55:35
Sequentially go through it, but that's the question anybody can we should go page by page otherwise we'll get lost and we'll 00:55:37
forget something jump around I got this I got that so. 00:55:40
Anyway, and I apologize for the formatting, I'm more worried about content than I am formatting because when we do the formatting, 00:55:45
it actually is done by the. 00:55:49
The company that we use that does the proper formatting so 202 point. 00:55:54
010 is actually what I just described is the form of government. 00:56:01
And where the authority lies in the government's, what I just described, that the City Council has authority. 00:56:05
And it tells what the mayor's authority is. And it tells. 00:56:10
How the mayor will vote. 00:56:15
Section B of that. 00:56:17
Is out of your code, so it actually stayed the same that if. 00:56:19
People want to run for elected office, they have to pay a $50 fee. 00:56:23
And they have to live within the city. Section C the mayor with advice. 00:56:27
Consent of the Council shall appoint. 00:56:31
All officers by the city by. 00:56:33
By the city ordinance or by statue and shall appoint all. 00:56:36
Committees authorized by ordinance or resolution. 00:56:40
So what number are we on? 00:56:43
We're on 20210, OK. 00:56:45
And I just finished C. 00:56:48
OK, and I added a section regarding the mayor and this is taken out of state code. 00:56:50
The mayor presides at the City Council, signs ordinances. 00:56:57
And by the way, my I gave you my copy and so I have a copy that's all blue marked so I don't know which is added. 00:57:01
So I'm just going to go over the code. 00:57:08
So the mayor represents the mayor, the city is in ceremonial events, delivers the annual budget. 00:57:11
Appoint. 00:57:17
The committee members and also the officers. 00:57:20
And you can you can decide whether the mayor appoints department heads. That's something the legislative body can. 00:57:23
Allow the mayor to do that are the. 00:57:31
Are. 00:57:33
Allow the mayor to make that decision. 00:57:34
What did we fall on? 00:57:37
Pardon me, what did our code fall on on that? 00:57:39
I'm sorry I. 00:57:42
I don't. 00:57:44
Think the code is. 00:57:44
Is has a statement on whether they and maybe Mr. Ellis can enlighten us. Do does the mayor appoint department heads? 00:57:46
And the weak consent there are specific department heads that the mayor. 00:57:55
Points with the advice and consent of the council. OK, so that's. 00:57:59
So I didn't change that. I didn't. 00:58:04
202010. 00:58:07
Section C. 00:58:09
OK. 00:58:11
So then section B is how the mayor can vote. 00:58:14
Section C. 00:58:20
Is if you're taking a power or duty away from the mayor. 00:58:23
It kind of tells you what the how the mayor can vote. 00:58:28
So none of this was changed. It's just state code. You're adding state code. I'm adding state code. Really, I'm just. 00:58:35
Mimic and say code and the reason is. 00:58:40
Council Member Nair and I talked about chasing Utah code. 00:58:45
So for example, your Section 1 in your code is your Criminal Code. 00:58:49
Which is really interesting that you would put your. 00:58:53
Opening section as. 00:58:55
We've got a bunch of criminals in vineyards, yeah. 00:58:57
So I didn't do that. 00:59:00
I'm just telling you your Section 1 and your Section 1 actually. 00:59:01
Mirrors Utah code, except Utah code has changed over the years and so I call it chasing Utah code. I don't advise it when I was at 00:59:05
Orem. 00:59:10
We decided as a City Council, that City Council decided. 00:59:15
That they would just reference, for example, the grandma law. They would just reference grandma. 00:59:18
Grandma changed last year and so did the Open Meetings Act instead of. 00:59:23
Quoting the entire Open Meetings Act in your ordinance. Just reference. 00:59:27
Whatever Utah code does so you're always in compliance. 00:59:31
And so. 00:59:35
One of the reasons I thought it was important to put this in the code is for the education of the council and the education of the 00:59:36
public so that they understand what Utah code permits. So. 00:59:42
And so section C here. 00:59:48
In germane to what we were talking about a minute ago, the mayor, with the advice and consent of the City Council, shall appoint 00:59:51
all officers provided for by the city ordinances. 00:59:55
And by statute. 00:59:59
And shall appoint all committee committees authorized by ordinance or resolution. 01:00:00
Of the City Council. 01:00:04
So right now it looks like the mayor appoints. 01:00:05
And we would have to ratify. 01:00:07
Is that my understanding? Yes, you do it with. 01:00:09
You discussed. 01:00:12
The appointment. 01:00:13
So. 01:00:14
Like you did the other night with me, you would say this is what we're doing. 01:00:16
You discuss it publicly. You can't vote in a closed meeting. 01:00:20
So you have a public discussion and then you cast a vote. 01:00:24
So if the vote is in the negative, then the mayor would have to. 01:00:27
Submit another application and generally the way that works if there's an opening in a position. 01:00:31
The mayor will send out a. 01:00:37
An e-mail and say, hey, we have an opening on this committee. 01:00:39
Please give me names that you would like to. 01:00:42
For me to consider. 01:00:45
And then the mayor will. 01:00:47
Look at. 01:00:48
Their application and then decide on the top three candidates, go back to the council and kind of. 01:00:49
To say what do you? 01:00:55
Individually and say how do you feel about this one or that one and then the mayor will decide on when to nominate. So that's 01:00:57
generally how the. 01:01:00
That works in the city. 01:01:04
So. 01:01:07
And I'm sorry, Councilmember Larae, I had skipped that. 01:01:08
But I'm on now the two. 01:01:11
.3 where? 01:01:14
We're talking about the mayor's duties. 01:01:16
Just to help with the discussion. 01:01:20
Do we want to see if there's any recommend? We want to just go page by page and see if there's any recommendations. 01:01:22
Recommended. Yes, I think some of these. 01:01:28
Are innocuous enough that we could. 01:01:30
Just say here's. 01:01:32
Changes and get those approved and move on and that way we can get to the discussion on some of the. 01:01:34
Bigger, bigger changes. 01:01:38
One point of clarification I wanted to make is. 01:01:40
On December 10th, we did. 01:01:44
Adopt A code change to allow us to move to the. 01:01:46
6 member council form of government. So just as the public's reading through and understanding what all this entails, primarily 01:01:49
this is changing. 01:01:53
Kind of the structure within that. So before we had. 01:01:57
Delegated a lot of the powers and duties to the city manager to. 01:02:01
Direct staff appoint staff on that December 10th meeting. 01:02:05
So this is changing a lot of. 01:02:08
Who holds those powers? 01:02:10
And so that'll be a big part of the discussion. 01:02:12
So I think. 01:02:15
Two, we definitely need to change. 01:02:16
2.02 Because that is one that. 01:02:18
The background from those ordinance changes that we did do. 01:02:21
Were not incorporated into the actual code. 01:02:25
And I'm wondering just. 01:02:27
So we can go sequentially here. 01:02:29
Is the preface and the history going to be incorporated in the code this time? I think I think it'd be helpful for the public when 01:02:32
they go in. 01:02:34
To see the code to have a little bit of background and understanding of. 01:02:37
Of what exactly that means? 01:02:41
And the reason I revised the preface, I agree with you that the city. 01:02:43
It's easier for the. 01:02:47
Citizens to look at the preface and say, oh, in November 2024 at a general election, the city voted to change to A6 member council 01:02:50
and I apologize council member. 01:02:56
The only code that I. 01:03:01
I've asked for a copy of the code and the only code that I have is the one that's online and so I have the updated online and if 01:03:03
you made additional changes from that. 01:03:07
I wasn't aware of that. I did note that there are a couple of sections that were included in the code that says that the changes 01:03:13
were adopted in December of 2025 and I probably went. 01:03:18
Along with my. 01:03:23
Faulty assumption that all the changes in December 2025 were incorporated in the code and we're hopeful that's true. I think it's 01:03:25
all there. Yeah, I think we're working from what's currently online, available in public now, which is, and again just on the 01:03:30
10th. Can I ask the rest of the council, are you guys good with going page by page to say if you have a change on the page to say 01:03:35
something, otherwise move on. Yeah, that works. 01:03:40
So for the preface, I just wanted to clarify on the state code has the. 01:03:46
The new form of government or the new council start the first Monday of the year. 01:03:50
Which I'd. 01:03:55
Think January 1st, but it was like the. 01:03:56
Yeah, 6 or something like that. So it might be helpful to just. 01:03:59
Put that in place since. 01:04:03
Some of these will have retroactive impacts. That looks like January 5th. Was that first Monday? 01:04:05
And and let me. 01:04:09
Let me go back and look at the code to determine when that takes effect, and I'll assume you're right, but I like to refer the 01:04:11
code, so I would put the code section in there so that the citizens can go look that up. 01:04:17
So. 01:04:24
So yes, the the preface. 01:04:26
I'm recommending that the City Council. 01:04:28
Adopt the preface and make. 01:04:31
The changes that you would desire. 01:04:33
So I wanted to go back to. 01:04:37
The 2.03. 01:04:39
Sorry, could I could I add one more thing in the? Absolutely. 01:04:43
Just because there is some administrative work. 01:04:46
I'm wondering if in two to B. 01:04:49
If we strike. 01:04:52
The filing fee is refundable. 01:04:53
If somebody files in their. 01:04:55
They've been properly filed for office. 01:04:57
Just to account for. 01:04:59
The bird in that. 01:05:01
Staff has to take to verify their. 01:05:02
Eligibility to be a candidate. 01:05:05
So we just strike that last sentence into. 01:05:08
.02. 01:05:11
What do you think about that? 01:05:13
I mean, if someone, if someone walks in and files the fee and they find it later on, OK, I'm not a citizen after all. Whatever, 01:05:16
you know? 01:05:19
I don't live in vineyards, but whatever. 01:05:23
Yeah we get non refundable for them too. I mean if you know within a day you can't do it. 01:05:26
Parker, you're. 01:05:32
Oh, it would not be great for me to say my thoughts. 01:05:39
Look. 01:05:45
If you. 01:05:46
File umm. 01:05:48
And you're not eligible to run. 01:05:49
How did you not know you weren't eligible to run? 01:05:52
The requirements are you live in the city and you're a citizen. 01:05:55
So either you don't live in the city and you lied so lose your 50 bucks. 01:05:58
Or you lied about your citizenship and. 01:06:02
Who cares? Lose your 50 bucks. 01:06:05
I'm I'm happy to support Ezra in that endeavor, but I think largely that's the penalty for stupidity. And I know the Daily Herald 01:06:07
is going to publish that quote. Jake Holloway, you think so? 01:06:13
Think it's OK? 01:06:19
I think it's OK. 01:06:20
OK, I'll delete that. Is that what the consensus is for me to delete? Let's go with that. 01:06:22
OK, 2 pages down. Let's keep going. 01:06:27
Yeah. 01:06:32
Any other comments on that section? Any other recommendations or changes? 01:06:34
Now we're going to change the effective date to the first Monday in January, is that right? 01:06:38
I'm going to look at. 01:06:43
Utah code to. 01:06:44
OK Utah code. 01:06:47
When you take office, it's the first Monday. But I don't know about the change of the form of government. I don't remember. I did 01:06:49
a memo on that about three years ago. 01:06:53
But I don't remember when it takes effect, whether it's the first. 01:06:57
Day of January or the first Monday? 01:07:00
So I'll go look and I'll quote the code so that OK. 01:07:03
That's. 01:07:07
So anyway, most of. 01:07:08
2.03 is out of state code except. 01:07:09
D is a Nusselt Other, probably divided by an agreement, is set out in UCA 3/11/05. 01:07:18
That's when you can have agreements with city employees. 01:07:23
That may have a term. 01:07:27
In it. 01:07:31
Then all the employees of the city served. 01:07:32
As at will employees and hold employment without limitation of time. 01:07:36
So the City Council can enter into agreements with any employee you would like, Can they? Absolutely. And. 01:07:41
If the if you want to do a term agreement hypothetically. 01:07:49
A new council comes in and they want to hire. 01:07:53
A finance manager, but they want the finance manager to be there they. 01:07:57
Want to do a two year term with the finance manager to incentify? 01:08:00
Somebody to come on the city where? 01:08:04
They know they're not. There's not going to be a transition. 01:08:06
The only other exception in the code is the city manager cannot have a term in their agreement. In other words, you can't hire 01:08:09
city manager for a one year term. 01:08:13
So that's the only other restriction in Utah code. City manager can have an agreement, can have severance. 01:08:18
All of those things in the agreement. 01:08:24
But that's the exception in Utah law. 01:08:27
And you're just adding the law, not. 01:08:30
OK, well, I clarify. Yeah, I added Utah law to clarify. 01:08:32
To the City Council that you can have agreements with people if you do put a term in the agreement. 01:08:36
You have to. 01:08:41
Site in the agreement. 01:08:41
That statue and in the resolution that statue and again a good city attorney will let you know that Section F is there were 01:08:43
resignations in the city. Sorry, real quick on that. 01:08:49
F on D. 01:08:58
I know our historic practice has been to just say that. 01:09:00
Every employee is at will. 01:09:04
OK. 01:09:06
Does that do you think that would hold? 01:09:10
Muster to this section of code that's being referenced here where. 01:09:14
Employees have to formally acknowledge that they're. 01:09:20
Or in writing, acknowledge that they're. 01:09:25
Their employment is. 01:09:27
Appointed or at will. 01:09:29
And that they voluntarily waived the procedures in 10/3. 01:09:30
1106. 01:09:34
Which are the? 01:09:35
Grievance and appeal procedures. 01:09:37
So my opinion is the City Council can make that determination whether that will if they're a term. 01:09:39
Or whether they have an agreement. 01:09:45
That's a position of the City Council can take. 01:09:49
From a practical point of view. 01:09:53
I was asked. 01:09:56
In my agreement to give a 30 day notice and my response is if you don't want me I don't want to be here for 30 days. 01:09:57
Right, if you have a. 01:10:04
Conflict with your attorney. The attorney doesn't want to stay around because. 01:10:06
The attorney doesn't want to represent a client that's not happy with the attorney. 01:10:10
And so I did. 01:10:14
Do as I was asked to put a 30 day notice but if the council decides that they no longer want my service. 01:10:15
Then I would probably want to resign immediately. 01:10:22
So you can have those terms but. 01:10:25
The reality is in a practical. 01:10:27
Sense that when people are going to separate from the city, you generally come up with some kind of agreement. So there's a. 01:10:30
There's a proper separation. 01:10:37
So, so not just for the employment employees, but just for like kind of the. 01:10:40
The basic employees that are. 01:10:43
You know, ground level. 01:10:45
Like a public works inspector. 01:10:47
Would we? 01:10:49
Would we consider this? 01:10:50
Code change. 01:10:53
Basically that written acknowledgment that. 01:10:55
So what does this mean for our existing employees? I guess is what I'm trying to the only reason I wanted to put it in? 01:10:57
Is that? 01:11:02
Some cities don't know this. 01:11:03
Because they would. 01:11:06
They don't understand. 01:11:07
Utah law is very complicated. It's not all in one place. 01:11:10
So if the City Council decided to do an agreement with the term in it, you have to. 01:11:13
Provide that provision both in the agreement and in your resolution. Other than that, everybody is at will. Even if you do an 01:11:17
agreement with me and you give me a severance and I say I'm going to be here for a year. 01:11:23
Most city manager contracts are just simply at will. 01:11:31
Most cities don't have contracts with anyone other than maybe some of the executives of the city. So maybe if you have a city 01:11:35
planner, a city attorney, or a city manager. 01:11:40
They may have agreements. I had an agreement with. 01:11:46
With the city of Orem. 01:11:49
When I was their counsel. 01:11:51
Side agreement with the city to be the City Council. Council and your city manager has an agreement and most city managers do have 01:11:53
an agreement so I wouldn't. 01:11:58
Provide agreements just as a practical point to any other city employees. They are at will. 01:12:03
But they do have some protections in the code. 01:12:09
They have it protections because you put it in your code. They have protections in your code. If you didn't have it in your code, 01:12:13
they have protections and state code. There's a pill process. 01:12:17
OK, so you're saying by default all of our employees are at will? 01:12:22
All of the employees are at will and quite frankly, it doesn't really matter if you have an agreement. 01:12:26
If the City Council. 01:12:30
Doesn't want someone then it's more of an AT will employment. You may have to pay a severance or you may have to pay the term out 01:12:31
if you have a term agreement. 01:12:35
But. 01:12:39
If you if the. 01:12:40
Council decides. 01:12:42
Just a hypothetical, if you hire somebody and they have a one year term and six months in it. 01:12:44
They're not competent. The City Council can say we don't want you here anymore. 01:12:49
But the agreement may pay that require that you pay the this additional six months term because that's what you've agreed to. But 01:12:54
most of the people, all the people really are at will. We serve at the pleasure of the City Council. 01:13:00
You're the. You're the. 01:13:07
Well, the governing body includes the mayor, but the City Council makes the policies. 01:13:09
And passes the ordinances so. 01:13:14
Everyone serves at your will. 01:13:17
So it seems to me that if. 01:13:20
When you're hired, if you part of your employment packet, you sign a disclosure statement that says that it informs you that 01:13:22
you're. 01:13:25
It will. It just reminds you of that basically. 01:13:28
Right, it would. It would probably suffice to take. 01:13:30
You know as proper notification. 01:13:33
It that provision is not necessary. 01:13:35
I just. 01:13:38
Just in my experience, I wanted to educate the City Council on all aspects of doing an agreement with an employee. 01:13:39
So number FII would just point out. 01:13:47
And I think it's. 01:13:51
The employees need to understand this. That's why I think it's so amazing what Mayor Stratton has done even though having the 01:13:52
authority and the council. 01:13:55
To go meet, sit, talk. 01:13:59
Even, you know, there was a comment like I can't believe you're paying out. I'm like. 01:14:02
That's how good we are. 01:14:06
That's how great. 01:14:07
It to work with people quietly and not kick him to the curb in a mean way when they don't. 01:14:08
When there's not a fit like, that's the way. 01:14:14
Vineyard is if there's a change, so. 01:14:17
I think Orem was really good about that too. If there was a separation with an employee, it was done quietly. It was 01:14:20
unconfidentially. 01:14:23
In in most cases there probably was a severance unless there was a serious issue with the employee. So and I think. 01:14:27
You know, if you're. 01:14:36
Going to separate from the city you don't want, you want to give the employee the opportunity to go out and get another job and, 01:14:37
and so. 01:14:41
You really don't want to make these employee employment issues public or even, yeah, even drag them here on social media or drag 01:14:46
them on a meeting to have a vote. It's like. 01:14:50
Yeah, and one day there was a Supreme Court case that came out last year regarding City Council members. It was actually a city 01:14:55
manager that had a Facebook page. 01:15:00
And so the Supreme Court actually took it up. So one day we'll talk about your social media. 01:15:05
And what you can and. 01:15:10
Can do and what you. 01:15:12
What is? 01:15:14
What the Supreme Court guidelines were. 01:15:16
So section F came up as a result of some resignations in your city, and I was asked to draft this. So this is a unique. 01:15:18
Provision. I haven't seen it in any other city codes. 01:15:26
But the question was who has the ability to, say, accept a resignation? 01:15:29
And it could be you. You could if somebody at. 01:15:35
That is a department head resigns. You can say the resignation has to be submitted to the City Council and the City Council will 01:15:37
accept it. But that means that you have to have a vote to accept it. You can't accept it privately. You have to bring the issue up 01:15:42
in a public meeting to say. 01:15:48
The employee resigned. 01:15:56
That may not be what the employee wishes. 01:15:57
And so so I drafted as the Mayor may accept the resignation of an officer employee of the city and at the Mayor's discretion and 01:16:00
in compliance with the City's employment policies, enter into a severance agreement. 01:16:06
Which means that your employment. 01:16:13
Policy should limit the mayor on what he can provide as he or she can provide as a severance. 01:16:15
So, and I don't know if it does because I didn't go into your city policy. I did review them briefly, but I didn't. 01:16:21
Align those, but they should be aligned where the City Council sets the policy on what the mayor can give as a severance. 01:16:28
And therefore it's just an automatic thing. Somebody says I want to resign or the city wants to sever. 01:16:36
Separate. 01:16:41
Than the mayor can say I'll give you the severance and based on the city policy, this is the severance that we can offer. 01:16:43
And so that's better set as a policy. 01:16:48
Issue and not necessarily encode. 01:16:50
Is a policy issue, Yes. 01:16:52
Yes, can we? 01:16:54
Is everyone OK if we instruct our HR director to? 01:16:56
Bring that policy before us and review it, yeah. 01:16:59
Yeah, I think we can ask for that. 01:17:02
Even though it's not drafted, just just so we know, I think it's better to put it in a policy and give. 01:17:05
Free reign of. 01:17:10
Hey, here's some guidelines of where you're at. 01:17:11
So can you ask our city manager to to ask the mayor to do that and arrange for that? 01:17:14
So next week we can. 01:17:20
You said Mayor you. 01:17:21
HR Director. 01:17:23
Yeah, the HR director. 01:17:24
OK, HR director, bring it. OK, Yeah. 01:17:26
That makes more sense and I'd be glad to sure. Thank you. 01:17:28
And again, I I did not compare this with your policies. I don't know what your policies are, but I would recommend that if you're 01:17:31
going to go. 01:17:35
This route and allow the mayor to accept a resignation. 01:17:40
Than the mayor should. 01:17:43
Be able to look at the policies and determine what his authority, his or her authority would be. 01:17:45
In my experience, I've actually had. 01:17:50
Two that have said. 01:17:53
In I remember reading the e-mail saying they did not want it to come to a public vote. 01:17:56
And so that like this is honoring the privacy of. 01:18:01
I haven't had very many, but in the last year. 01:18:05
A while ago but I was like oh that makes sense. 01:18:07
So I think giving the mayor the opportunity to accept it privately is fine. 01:18:10
Yeah, great. Moving on. Keep going. 01:18:14
Could we hold off on proving that one until we? 01:18:19
Amend the policy, because right now. 01:18:22
I don't think there's any direction in the employment policy so. 01:18:24
I theory. 01:18:28
I spoke with the HR director yesterday at length. 01:18:29
About all of this. 01:18:32
And I don't have any problems. 01:18:34
I mean, it's pretty. 01:18:36
Standard and I don't. 01:18:37
Not trust the mayor is. 01:18:39
To your concern that the mayor would give out too much severance to someone? 01:18:41
In theory not. 01:18:46
Looking at the policy from a person perspective, but just looking at. 01:18:48
Regardless of who's in the seat. Does this make sense? 01:18:52
At this moment. 01:18:55
And I think without that direction. 01:18:56
We are. 01:18:59
Giving broad authority that. 01:19:00
We might never get back. 01:19:02
So the issue is then. 01:19:04
And I, I would agree with that that. 01:19:06
You should have a policy, and I don't know if you do. I'm not suggesting you don't have a policy. I don't know. 01:19:09
But. 01:19:15
Then you're going to have to give direction on who accepts the resignation. 01:19:17
So if. 01:19:21
I resign. 01:19:22
Pardon me, can we propose an amendment to it so that if we vote to pass that we can have an amended? 01:19:24
Code here. 01:19:31
Like could I just say. 01:19:33
The mayor can accept a resignation. 01:19:35
Of an officer. 01:19:37
And enter into a severance agreement. 01:19:40
Up to one month per year of. 01:19:42
Work. 01:19:45
Something like that. 01:19:46
You can put that in the ordinance. Why wouldn't you? Just why wouldn't you? 01:19:48
Because I don't think we're giving the authority to the mayor. We're. 01:19:51
Delineating it to the policy. 01:19:54
So it's not. 01:19:57
Giving the mayor power, it's just. 01:19:57
We just got to make sure that we put the policy in place. So yeah, I just want to say like, let's just keep that first part. 01:20:00
And then we can. 01:20:05
Amend. 01:20:06
This. 01:20:07
You can amend this code. 01:20:08
When we have the policy, we can do it at the same time of saying. 01:20:10
So that we have a policy we can re add that the mayor may accept the resignation of an officer or employee of the city at the 01:20:13
mayor's discretion and just cut it there. Is that what you're saying? 01:20:17
Yeah. And then? 01:20:22
We still hold the authority over kind of establishing what's in the severance agreement so we can talk about it. 01:20:23
Do that, but then eventually we'll get to a policy where we say this is the standard and we can. 01:20:28
Pass that and then amend that back into. 01:20:34
To this that gets a thumbs up from me. 01:20:36
That means that the. 01:20:41
Agreements would need to come back. 01:20:43
For a vote. 01:20:44
Is what you're saying is that would be the current one. 01:20:45
We approve the policy. We wouldn't have to approve each one. We'd approve a policy. 01:20:49
That would then be used, Yeah, I would do the policy, but currently we would. 01:20:54
Get to deliberate on those. 01:20:58
OK, and and the issue you have right now if you have. 01:21:01
Resignation agreements and you have severance agreements. The mayor has no authority. 01:21:05
The mayor can accept those, but the mayor has no authority to give a severance out unless it's voted on publicly by the council. 01:21:11
Can we? 01:21:14
Just to get your guys's. 01:21:19
Thought opinion on this because we're supposed to deliberate publicly. 01:21:21
I am generally aware. 01:21:24
Of. 01:21:27
The current severance agreements being offered to people who are resigning. 01:21:28
I'm not. 01:21:32
Explicitly aware of the detail here, but I don't think that there's anything particularly concerning. Could we just grandfather 01:21:33
those in? 01:21:36
Yeah, I definitely don't want to. 01:21:40
Hold it up knowing I mean I'm I'm generally. 01:21:42
Except I do not think the numbers reference publicly were anything near that. But yeah. 01:21:44
Like umm. 01:21:49
And I don't, I don't, I don't want to hold the service to the employees that are also looking to move on. 01:21:51
I don't want to put them in the spotlight unnecessarily. 01:21:57
And they have already, if they've already come to agreements, we should honor those agreements. 01:22:00
Maybe if you want to go in that direction, maybe we take out. 01:22:05
In compliance with the city's employment policies for right now. 01:22:11
So the mayor can still enter into a severance agreement. If you trust your mayor, you can add that and then we can revise it. 01:22:15
Later to say, oh, the mayor has to comply with the policy so that way it does we can keep it as a you just e-mail me what? 01:22:22
Those numbers are I. 01:22:30
I don't really know what those numbers are so. 01:22:33
OK, that's all I'm. 01:22:35
And just to remind the council why you're negotiating with people, it's a confidential matter, right? And even drafts that go back 01:22:37
and forth of agreements or are are drafts and they're not grammable. 01:22:43
But once you sign the agreement as a severance agreement, that's a public document. 01:22:48
And so, so right now, whatever you pass among yourself regarding employees is just a draft. It's going back and forth. I don't 01:22:53
know all of the people that are resigning, but I know four are represented by very competent legal counsel and I have spoken to 01:23:00
the legal counsel on several occasions. So they're very well represented and. 01:23:06
They actually did the draft of the agreement, so obviously they think the agreement is fair, so. 01:23:14
To any other questions. So I guess I need some direction shall I take out? 01:23:21
No, I think you can leave it in, that's fine. 01:23:28
So I want to make sure I understand it and take out and in compliance with the city's employment policies, I'd leave that in 01:23:31
there. Yeah, OK. I think we just settled that we'd leave it. OK. And. 01:23:36
All right. And then that just needs to change the E. 01:23:42
Right. 01:23:45
If I think unless there's an E that I'm missing. 01:23:46
And so the issue that I have as attorney, I'm very. 01:23:48
Particular with the law. 01:23:52
The mayor has no authority to enter several agreements unless you have policies, so my recommendation you change that in 01:23:54
compliance with the city's policies. 01:23:58
And you have to trust the mayor this time. 01:24:03
And then when you do the policies, we can. 01:24:06
Reinsert that back in. 01:24:08
So right now you're handcuffing the mayor that he can't do a severance agreement if there's no policies. And I don't know if 01:24:10
there's no policies. I'm just saying I don't let's. 01:24:14
We trust him, I mean. 01:24:19
OK, no coffee. 01:24:20
He's been very transparent with the. 01:24:22
For now, so. 01:24:23
Yeah, no, there's no current policy. 01:24:25
There was specifically cover that, so let's do that. 01:24:27
The mayor is, yeah. 01:24:30
And the policy could be you leave it at the. 01:24:31
The mayor or the city? 01:24:34
Managers discretion. That could be your policy instead of doing. 01:24:35
One month for every year or whatever. It can be a policy. That is just the discretion, yeah. 01:24:39
Because if an if an employee hypothetically does something illegal. 01:24:44
Maybe you don't want to give a separance. Maybe this is. 01:24:49
Termination for cause, and so you wouldn't want to reward bad behavior. So what if you just add it in consultation with the 01:24:52
council instead of in compliance with the city's employment policies? 01:24:56
OK. As we talked about the number, I just want to make sure that. 01:25:01
We've thrown out some numbers. 01:25:04
And so I just want to. 01:25:07
Verify what those are before. 01:25:08
We go through with it. 01:25:11
Just. 01:25:12
I can put that in there. 01:25:14
The only issue I have with it when he does it in consultation with the Council. 01:25:16
He can do it. 01:25:20
Individually. 01:25:23
Individual, but he can't. 01:25:25
You can't vote. 01:25:26
Other words you can't say to the mayor. 01:25:28
Yes, I vote that you can do that. You can say to the mayor. 01:25:31
It looked. 01:25:34
Your your offer looks good to me. 01:25:36
But it should come in front of the Council. 01:25:38
If you're going to do consultation with the council, it should be open to the public. 01:25:40
Right. And so I think you have a problem if you put in consultation with the council because you've got to be transparent, you 01:25:45
have to be transparent with the public that. 01:25:49
The council's consulting about something and they should know how you feel about that. 01:25:52
Right. Yeah, I think where we got last time because we had. 01:25:57
Closed session to. 01:26:00
Basically kind of talk about. 01:26:02
The individual performance. 01:26:03
And then there were some numbers thrown out in there. 01:26:06
So. 01:26:10
If we just had a closed session, that was like, here's what the plan is for the professional competence on this individual. 01:26:12
I'd be comfortable with that. 01:26:19
I is the intent. 01:26:22
For that to discuss the severance package directly. 01:26:24
I just want to know what the numbers are. That's the main thing. I just want to make sure So and I would reckon have an impact on 01:26:27
the budget, which again, you're the council, you decide. So I would recommend if you do that, the mayor. 01:26:32
There would be an agenda item that says. 01:26:39
The council approves the severance agreements that have been recommended by the mayor and they could be a consent item so just. 01:26:41
Right. And so you don't have to name the employees the issue, I think Councilmember Holdaway. 01:26:48
Said is that the employees don't want to. 01:26:54
People to know that. 01:26:57
They're leaving the city. We don't want to disadvantage them in their next position or in their hiring process and so. 01:26:58
The less you can make public about an employee, the better it would be for the employee. 01:27:05
Just my personal opinion so. 01:27:10
I can put in consultation with the Council if you'd like. 01:27:13
Is that what? 01:27:16
I don't want anything to hold up. 01:27:18
Normal current like. 01:27:20
I can understand as well. 01:27:23
Yeah, yeah. And speaking with the HR. 01:27:26
Person like there we should. I feel like we're delayed. 01:27:29
I would leave it as is. 01:27:33
And we can make a correction later. 01:27:35
I would recommend you take out an in compliance with the city's employment policies since there are no policies and the mayor 01:27:38
would be handcuffed to only give a severance according to those policies. So I would take that out and just give the mayor the 01:27:43
discretion dinner to a severance agreement. 01:27:48
Yeah. And if you just. 01:27:53
If. 01:27:55
When you guys have those numbers, just e-mail them to me. That would work fine. 01:27:56
And I asked a recorder to bring that up, as I think we could even say China later on. 01:27:59
I think we could even without. 01:28:03
Talking people like generally. 01:28:05
Bring that up as an amendment to the code later on and a future meeting. 01:28:07
I think we could even say generally. 01:28:11
Publicly like what the. 01:28:13
Guidelines. I mean it. 01:28:15
Of what kind of the rule of thumb he followed? 01:28:18
Without saying specific names. 01:28:20
I don't mind. You're the counsel you you can. 01:28:24
Do I mean generally it's like? 01:28:26
A month or two and a couple of weeks depending on how much they worked, I think. So it wasn't like this massive lump sum I think 01:28:28
to make sure. 01:28:32
The general target he's pursued has been a week of severance per year of employment for people who were not guaranteed severance, 01:28:36
right. So it's still trying to give people a software like huge numbers here. Just want to make sure the because of the. 01:28:44
That big number, the throne, why don't we go ahead and leave it out for now So he has full power do what he would, right? That's 01:28:51
why I said I just wanted to make Tony outside. As for like future, put that on the record because like and by the way, or my 01:28:57
understanding is Mayor Stratton has been very forthcoming with the council. Spoken to each of you. 01:29:02
So I don't know. 01:29:07
The only reason that I know it is I've seen the agreements but other than that I I'm not involved in. 01:29:09
The severance other than on the agreement side, and I don't pay attention to what you're paying people, but I'm certain that if 01:29:15
you called Mayor Stratton, he would let you know what the severance is so that. 01:29:20
That's kind of how. 01:29:26
I don't think he's going to sign a severance without the City Council. 01:29:29
Giving yeah, that sounds reasonable to me. Kind of an odd. I think we all have general ideas of what what they are. So I I'm 01:29:33
comfortable with the general idea. 01:29:36
So the next is the mayor Pro Tem. 01:29:41
Filling a vacancy? 01:29:44
And this is. 01:29:46
Really. Uh. 01:29:48
Pretty simple. You did that tonight. 01:29:50
And. 01:29:52
But. 01:29:53
It also provides that. 01:29:54
That the mayor Pro Tem shall possess the power of the mayor. 01:29:57
So. 01:30:00
Councilmember Larae, you have the ability to sign agreements for the city if the mayor is. 01:30:02
Is not available. 01:30:08
Yeah, so just to make sure, you're afraid he's coming back real soon. 01:30:09
Yeah, but what I'm saying, if there's an agreement that needs to be signed this week because there's a deadline, you have that 01:30:12
ability as the mayor Pro Tem. 01:30:16
I do have one question in. 01:30:20
How, when acting as a mayor Pro Tem, will the council retain? 01:30:22
Their their vote on normal legislative matters. 01:30:26
Would he as a council member? 01:30:31
But since he's fulfilling both roles, yeah, you you're still on the you're still on the City Council. So you do vote, OK. 01:30:32
So yes, you're not. That's all you talk. Code is silent on that, so there's no prohibition. 01:30:39
OK, so. 01:30:45
The next one is the most important one for you to consider because. 01:30:47
Ask one quick question. 01:30:51
Please. 01:30:53
Just just to clarify on that last point, are you suggesting that? 01:30:55
That the. 01:30:59
Reservation for adjustment of powers of the mayor. 01:31:00
For requiring that the mayor be present for any adjustment to their powers. 01:31:05
Could be. 01:31:10
Approved by a mayor Pro Tem. 01:31:12
Good catch, don't know Well Utah code requires that if the mayor's not. 01:31:20
Available that a mayor Pro Tem. 01:31:24
Be appointed. 01:31:26
And it's silent as to whether that takes the power away from the mayor. I think they just want somebody to be the chairperson of 01:31:28
the. 01:31:32
Council, but it also provides that they have the power of the mayor. So hypothetically. 01:31:36
What I read in that is that. 01:31:45
If there's a disruption in your City Council meeting. 01:31:47
The mayor Pro Tem can take care of the disruption and if there's urgent business of the city, the. 01:31:50
I'm sure the mayor Pro Tem will. 01:31:56
Contact the mayor. So I don't think it's taking the power away and it's only temporary, but. 01:31:57
I I'll go back inside Utah, but you're suggesting that the that the mayor has all the powers. 01:32:02
The mayor Pro Tem has all the powers of the mayor. 01:32:08
And therefore for example. 01:32:11
This document tonight. 01:32:13
Could be approved. 01:32:15
In the absence of our. 01:32:17
Elected mayor. 01:32:18
Even though it is adjusting the. 01:32:21
Powers and duties of that mayor, which are. 01:32:23
Pretty clearly supposed to be. 01:32:26
Including that mayor. 01:32:28
Mayor's vote on such changes. That is a great point because if you take the power away from the mayor, it has to be approved. 01:32:30
I think the purpose of the statue is to. 01:32:39
Of the statue and Pro Tem is to allow. 01:32:42
The meeting to go forward with the chairperson, but I think that's a very well taken point. So I would recommend until the mayor's 01:32:46
back. 01:32:49
That we. 01:32:53
Don't amend this section. 01:32:54
To the code is not always clear and I'll give you an example. The mayor is the chief administrative author. 01:32:56
Officer of the city and all employees report to the mayor. 01:33:04
But the mayor has no administrative duties unless the City Council grants those. 01:33:10
Duties to the mayor, and yet he's the chief administrative officer. So there's a dichotomy in the in the code and Utah. 01:33:14
Courts have been very critical of the. 01:33:22
Drafting of the municipal code saying that it's not clear and certain. 01:33:24
Situations. 01:33:29
So I. 01:33:30
I like your recommendation. 01:33:32
Your comment and I would recommend that we table this issue. 01:33:34
Are this provision until the mayor's back so the mayor can. 01:33:38
Have a boat on this issue now we just the mayor Pro Tem issue. 01:33:42
Just the mayor Pro Tem issue. OK, that's cool because I use. Does that work for you? 01:33:45
Yeah, Eric, would that be appropriate, you think? 01:33:49
Seems like a risk. It's a good catch. 01:33:54
It's a good catch. 01:33:57
Yes, it is risky because you could get sunburned. 01:33:58
Even even if the doesn't the mayor have to say that he's giving the? 01:34:02
Mayor Pro Tem. 01:34:06
Or no, no, you just claim that unto yourself at least has to be not there and the rest of it is there. We go have mayor Pro Tem 01:34:08
and we vote. 01:34:11
Well, I wasn't aware when I wrote this section that the mayor was going to be absent. So frankly, I didn't expect this issue to be 01:34:15
in full transparency. He was like, good luck. 01:34:20
I trust all of you guys to do what you want, right? It was amazing how great he was. It was, I was like, wow, right? But the code 01:34:25
specifically says if you're taking a power away from the mayor, he has to vote on that. 01:34:30
And so I have no problem. It's a good solution to just omit this particular portion of the code from tonight's vote. 01:34:36
If we if we vote on this code. 01:34:41
Right and. 01:34:43
And the mayor was very clear he wanted. 01:34:45
This past. 01:34:47
So I received. 01:34:48
No shortage of messages to that effect. 01:34:50
Well, let me say this. The code says that if the mayor votes. 01:34:52
He only votes. 01:34:59
If there's a majority of the council. 01:35:00
And the mayor are the are the councils unanimous? So if you vote for this unanimously, it's not relevant. 01:35:03
That the mayor had a vote. 01:35:10
Because the Council unanimously has voted. 01:35:11
And I'm not suggesting you should vote. I'm I'm suggesting we have an issue here because the mayor's not here. 01:35:14
My recommendation is you table this section and then at your next listen you have other code issues and this is not the most 01:35:20
important issue. 01:35:24
And so my recommendation is we just to make sure we're in compliance with Utah law. 01:35:28
We give the opportunity for the mayor to understand what's happening with this section and give the opportunity for the mayor to 01:35:33
be here and to vote. I want to say accept the motion to table. 01:35:38
2.03. 01:35:45
Correct. 01:35:48
So when you make your final. 01:35:49
Motion whether you want to adopt. 01:35:51
So we can't do it ahead of time. We've got 30 more pages to get open to get it done without having to talk about it again. 01:35:55
OK. All right, continue on. OK. 01:36:02
Let's see. 01:36:08
2.04. 01:36:11
All right, 2043. 01:36:14
The Council. 01:36:17
Here this is the decision that you guys have made. I just only. 01:36:19
I'm Moses I. 01:36:23
I actually just wrote down what you said the Council is proposing. 01:36:25
That you delegate. 01:36:30
The administrative. 01:36:32
An executive duties to the mayor. 01:36:35
And remember, you don't have to do that. 01:36:38
You can delegate it to a city manager our. 01:36:40
Each one of you can take a position in the city. 01:36:43
You can't get paid for it, but you can be over. 01:36:46
So that's a significant change in your code. 01:36:49
And I just want to make sure everybody is aware of that, that that's the direction. 01:36:52
That you've asked to go. 01:36:55
But I said notwithstanding. 01:36:57
Subsection D. 01:36:59
And several council members were really, really reluctant to give full power to the mayor and so. 01:37:01
In subsection D, the council has reserved powers that are not granted to the mayor. 01:37:08
Well, they may be granted to the mayor in another section, but the council retains the right to do this also. 01:37:16
So the first one. 01:37:22
The if hypothetically. 01:37:24
You don't like? 01:37:26
How the mayor manages. 01:37:27
Because you're making a decision. 01:37:29
Then the Council can. 01:37:31
Direct the mayor to appoint a city manager. 01:37:33
So specific time frame to be put in there. 01:37:37
And again, we may have the issue with. 01:37:41
Taking a power away from the mayor. 01:37:44
And so. 01:37:46
That may come up later. For example, is that actually taking any power away? He would still have the ability to appoint a city 01:37:48
manager if he chose to appoint a city manager. 01:37:52
Technically, yes, it takes power away if the manager is going to take over administrative duties. But if you change the code to 01:37:57
say that the. 01:38:00
City Manager. 01:38:04
Is. 01:38:06
Reports to the mayor and the mayor still has the administrative duties. That wouldn't be a problem. 01:38:08
If you take power away from the mayor, though, the mayor has to vote on that issue. So again, that's something down the road. 01:38:12
That I can foresee being an issue. 01:38:18
But right now, I don't think it is so you can vote to have the mayor. 01:38:20
Appoint a manager. 01:38:24
And this was the second one was a little bit of disconcerting to some of you to prove the payment or a series of payments made by 01:38:28
the city that exceeds $10,000 and your city manager will say, well, that will just stifle the City Council. So what I would 01:38:34
recommend is that you do a report of all the. 01:38:40
Payments that are made on a monthly basis over $10,000 and you approve those for the rest of the remaining of the year. And then 01:38:45
the onesies and twosies that come in, it goes in front of the City Council. And by the way. 01:38:51
That was the recommendation of the council, that they wanted to have some control over the expenses of the city. 01:38:58
Can I? 01:39:04
Ask a question maybe for clarification too. So I got. 01:39:05
I got that information from our city manager and I went through it today. 01:39:09
And the vast majority. 01:39:14
Of payments that are in excess of $10,000 are related to. 01:39:16
The essential services that the city provides or employment. 01:39:21
That's probably like. 01:39:25
80 plus percent of those those. 01:39:27
And those are budgeted for at the beginning of the year. 01:39:29
So would it. 01:39:32
I mean, I think that would satisfy this requirement, right? So if the City Council is going through the budget process, then we 01:39:33
don't have to actually review every single one of those payments. It would be budgeted for and approved in our. 01:39:38
Well, the purpose of this is to. 01:39:44
Ensure that payments aren't being made by the mayor that the City Council doesn't know about. The downside of this is the City 01:39:47
Council has you're inviting more work for yourself for oversight. 01:39:52
And so you, you make the decision if that's what you want to do. But I agree with you, if you pass the budget, we can actually add 01:39:57
that except for those items that are. 01:40:01
Are within the city budget. 01:40:07
OK, because I think the the. 01:40:09
The bigger intent behind that specific bulletin is. 01:40:11
Anything large coming up? 01:40:16
Unforeseen. That's being done by the mayor without the. 01:40:19
Vote of the Council. 01:40:22
I I think I agree with that. 01:40:24
But if you look at our previous. 01:40:26
Budgets, I love reoccurring, but I think we need to add some specificity because. 01:40:28
You know, they'll say, oh, you voted on the budget of 50. 01:40:34
1000 and travel so it's like. 01:40:37
Yeah, you did vote on that and it is a reoccurring like every year annual travel. 01:40:39
So. 01:40:44
But I'm OK with. 01:40:45
With with doing that. 01:40:46
But I I struggle with what is the defining what is. 01:40:49
Definition of reoccurring. 01:40:52
Yeah, I would maybe travel is not reoccurring. It may be a budgeted item. 01:40:55
But it's not reoccurring. 01:40:59
But your utility would be your services would be your employment utilities. I love all those if we specifically said utilities. 01:41:01
Payments. 01:41:12
Well, that would approved contract, yeah, that would be kind of your city manager would have to give some insight on. 01:41:13
What you want to exclude so? 01:41:20
And if we're trying to make the code change tonight, I think it's going to be, I'm OK with it as it stands, a little laborious, 01:41:24
but I, I do think it could be clarified. And I do think me working with the city manager, we could make it another amendment to 01:41:30
this later if you'd like. I'm OK to vote as it stands. 01:41:35
I think it's a good idea. Make a minute later to it. 01:41:41
And Amanda and just instruct the city. So you want it as is and then amend it? I think so, although as is and then a quick 01:41:43
question on 10,000, so does that. 01:41:47
Payments are breaking up into two 5005 thousand. Is that account for this? Yeah, so. 01:41:54
In federal law, you have. 01:41:59
A series of payments that may violate federal laws, so. 01:42:04
Maybe a $5000 deposit would not violate federal law, but if they make a series of deposits, they're trying to get around the 01:42:07
reporting requirements. And so that's kind of so this would be mirrored in federal, federal law. You don't want the city, you 01:42:13
don't want somebody who's approving the payments to make a $5000 payment one day and then make a $5000 payment the next day to the 01:42:19
same vendor because it. 01:42:24
That's not the purpose of it. The purpose of this is a City Council to know. 01:42:30
What's being paid out? 01:42:35
By the city. 01:42:36
So I that's why I put the series of payments in there that kind of mirrors federal law. 01:42:37
So we're OK with it like it is or do you want to? I think I am, yeah. I think we're kind of in agreement. We're OK with this as it 01:42:43
is. We'll make an amendment later to be more specific. 01:42:48
Right #3 is that the City Council reserves the right to discharge an employee of the city. So if you find that there's 01:42:53
malfeasance, if you find that it's a criminal conduct. 01:42:58
I'm assuming the mayor would probably go through a process of termination of the employee, but if the mayor. 01:43:03
Does not the City Council has the right to act in the best interest by the majority vote? 01:43:09
By majority vote. All of this is by majority vote. 01:43:14
The preface is it has to be my. Is there any supermajority language in? 01:43:18
The margin this majority language was taken out of Utah code, notwithstanding the delegation of powers with the majority of the 01:43:22
voting. 01:43:26
Members of the council. 01:43:31
Regarding the absence or vacancy, the City Council specifically reserved that reserves of power so that language is taken out of 01:43:33
Utah code. 01:43:36
So could we say in compliance with? 01:43:40
HR policies or employment policies on. 01:43:44
On three. 01:43:47
I think that's irrelevant. It's all at will anyways. 01:43:49
And if you have a majority of the council that's determined there's malfeasance, I would maybe argue to defend that though. 01:43:53
A supermajority. 01:44:00
Right. 01:44:02
I guess on the council exclusively it's. 01:44:05
Maybe irrelevant. Well, would this include the mayor since it technically doesn't include the mayor's ability to to govern? 01:44:07
May I make a recommendation? It's really difficult when you're a council to say. 01:44:14
Do we have to have a majority vote or supermajority vote? So the less changes you make in Utah law, the better. And Utah law was? 01:44:18
Thoroughly vetted and. 01:44:26
Thought through. 01:44:28
And so if it's a majority vote, stay with you what Utah law does. 01:44:29
You're welcome to do a supermajority. 01:44:33
But it does become confusing when you're having a City Council meeting, you're making a decision. 01:44:35
So this. 01:44:41
To discharge an employee of the city, Utah law is a simple majority. 01:44:43
No. 01:44:48
The city can terminate anybody. 01:44:50
Can discharge anybody. It does. Generally that's. 01:44:53
Delegated to the mayor or the city manager. 01:44:57
So is that right, Eric? You have the ability to determine it employees? 01:45:00
I do, and I wanted to point out that you you. 01:45:03
Hinted at this earlier. 01:45:07
We do have that ability with cause. 01:45:09
But. 01:45:12
City employees, with with few exceptions, being appointed officials and so forth. 01:45:13
Have merit protection and I had I. 01:45:18
Search this for merit. 01:45:21
Protections. 01:45:23
You. You kind of. 01:45:24
Danced around it earlier when we were talking about. 01:45:27
The protections that staff do have. 01:45:30
It might be helpful to. 01:45:32
Use a description like the one that Councilmember Nair recommended. 01:45:34
Because there are protections for. 01:45:39
For public. 01:45:43
Staff. 01:45:44
That are called merit protections. 01:45:45
And HR rules would. 01:45:48
Would include. 01:45:50
Merit protections of of city employees that aren't. 01:45:52
Appointed or. 01:45:55
Exempt. 01:45:57
Let me address that in two aspects. I like that recommendation because when you. 01:45:58
Do a termination. You should know what the city policies are and should comply with them. 01:46:02
If it's for 'cause there may be. 01:46:09
Different way to terminate an employee as opposed to. 01:46:11
Reduction in force. 01:46:15
Also, the issue regarding appointed officials and. 01:46:17
Department heads is addressed in another section where? 01:46:25
Mayor's required to. 01:46:28
Have a meeting with the City Council in. 01:46:31
In a closed meeting to discuss the termination prior to the termination. So there are some protections. 01:46:33
Further in the code for those. 01:46:39
Just to be clear, I'm referring to. 01:46:44
The all but. 01:46:46
So I'm specifically I think the HR Paul. 01:46:47
Following the HR policy would be helpful so that. 01:46:51
So that the merit. 01:46:54
Employee Protections. 01:46:55
Would be. 01:46:57
Accounted for in this discharge any employee of the city. 01:46:59
Statement The Council would be well advised to. 01:47:02
Make sure that before they. 01:47:07
Terminate an employee. 01:47:09
That they are. 01:47:11
That they are. 01:47:12
Aware of merit. 01:47:13
Protections. 01:47:14
And and making sure that they're. 01:47:15
Dotting their eyes and crossing their T's. 01:47:17
On the dismissal of a merit. 01:47:20
Employee. 01:47:22
Well, I would assume. 01:47:23
And I agree with that. So I put discharge any employees in the city in compliance with the city policies. 01:47:25
Oh, I just don't see that here. No, I just added that based on your recommendation, so I'm proposing that. 01:47:32
That those protections be outlined here. In other words, I think what would happen if the City Council has to. 01:47:38
Terminated employee as opposed to the administrator that you. 01:47:43
You appoint. 01:47:47
Is that the City Council would. 01:47:49
Bring the HR director in and say how do we do this? 01:47:52
And it would be in a closed meeting so the HR director can give you. 01:47:55
The direction on how to do it, but I like that because it does say that the mayor just can't or the City Council can't do it 01:47:59
unless it's in compliance. So thank you for the clarification. 01:48:04
So we don't have a policy yet, but we'll bring that we'll. 01:48:09
Build and create that merit. Well, I think you do have a policy, merit protections policy. 01:48:12
Yeah. Is that more than just a city policy, Eric? Is that just state code? 01:48:16
Yeah, OK. That's in our city code or state code. 01:48:22
State stay both. 01:48:25
The city The city uses state code for merit protections. 01:48:27
As part of our general HR policy, so we don't have to much like you described earlier about. 01:48:30
Chasing the statutes, right? 01:48:37
This the HR. 01:48:39
Office operates under the state code. As far as protections for merit employees, it's. 01:48:41
It's our practice. 01:48:46
Rather than. 01:48:47
Specifically articulated. 01:48:48
Ordinance. 01:48:50
So a city that doesn't have. 01:48:53
A code and you do you have an ordinance regarding? 01:48:55
The protection of employees and that that's left in it's there's a slight change that. 01:48:58
Mirror state code, but if you didn't have that then they would have the rights under state code as a merit employee. 01:49:03
So, uh. 01:49:10
So that but I think if we. 01:49:11
In compliance I could actually do in compliance section of 10/3 11:05. 01:49:14
I don't have the code in front of me but. 01:49:21
Yeah, I think it's 10/3, 11:05. 01:49:23
So I could put in compliance with city policies or state law in case. 01:49:26
The City Council. Ever. 01:49:31
If you good idea. 01:49:33
You that work? Thank you. And by the way, I've been on the phone. 01:49:34
With all of you making. 01:49:39
Changes even today so. 01:49:41
This is a. 01:49:43
Work, and that's what why it's called a work session is to work through it. 01:49:44
And compliance with state law. 01:49:49
No, this is a business session. 01:49:53
And we have the option to. 01:49:55
Pass it or continue it as well. I mean, if we think it's not ready, it's not ready. 01:49:57
And so #4 is to hold a closed meeting prior to the termination of a city officer described in Section 204 are a department head. 01:50:01
So there's the kind of the. 01:50:10
Governor on the mayor's ability so the mayor can't say well I've depart I. 01:50:12
I've gotten rid of the city attorney or the city engineer or the department head. It has to. 01:50:18
You have to hold a closed meeting and understand why the mayor wants to proceed in that direction. 01:50:26
And as a council, you. 01:50:31
Could say to the mayor. 01:50:33
We don't recommend you do it and I think. 01:50:35
A reasonable mayor would listen to your concerns, and that's why I think you would want to have a closed meeting. 01:50:38
But you are giving to the mayor the right to terminate. 01:50:44
Even if in the closed meeting. 01:50:48
The mayor. 01:50:50
Gets a direction. Otherwise the mayor still has that right to terminate because you're giving. 01:50:51
The mayor, the administrative powers of the city just so there's no I'm just trying to make sure that city. 01:50:56
The Council is fully aware of what you're doing. 01:51:02
That makes sense because if. 01:51:05
The mayor is. 01:51:07
That upset with an employee doesn't want to work with them anymore. The relationship is not going to go forward, right? 01:51:08
And just so you know. 01:51:14
I don't have my thumb on the scale either way. I'm I'm not here advocating for a city manager or a mayor or. 01:51:15
Any other? 01:51:21
Way that you're going to minister the city. 01:51:22
I've only taken the feedback from what? 01:51:24
The council has provided. 01:51:26
And written it in the document. 01:51:28
#5 is grant. These are the. 01:51:31
The powers that you have reserved that you haven't get to the mayor, grant the authority. 01:51:33
Of the mayors who negotiated and sign a contract. 01:51:38
So you have the right to do that. You can say to the mayor, if it's a big contract, you can say we're protected by that $10,000 01:51:42
previously discussed, right. 01:51:47
Great, SO. 01:51:51
You can oversee the filling of a vacancy as required in 28510. 01:51:53
And that's the vacancy of a City Council member or a mayor who resigns. 01:51:58
And there are some problems with Utah cities that haven't complied fully with that law. 01:52:04
The law requires that a resigning member send a irrevocable letter of resignation. 01:52:10
To the members of the municipal body. 01:52:16
And my understanding. 01:52:19
And I haven't seen. 01:52:22
Any documents my understanding that that's never occurred? 01:52:23
And the disconcerting issue is that a resigning member. 01:52:27
Can withdraw their resignation. 01:52:31
At. 01:52:34
Unless they've sent their resignation to the members of the legislative. 01:52:35
The municipal legislative. 01:52:39
Body. 01:52:41
To all of them. So there is an argument and other people disagree with this I've talked to. 01:52:42
Senators about it, I've talked to other city councils about it and they agree with the reading that. 01:52:48
There has to be a vacancy. 01:52:53
I'm not recommending that the city. 01:52:55
Do anything you can do what you want with it, but I want to make sure going forward that you oversee the filling of a vacancy 01:52:57
because the code is pretty is absolutely clear that it's a. 01:53:03
The municipal legislative body that oversees that process, for example, in the code, it says when you receive it. 01:53:09
You notify. 01:53:16
The recorder that you've received the resignation. 01:53:18
The media's legislative body, not the mayor. 01:53:20
And I don't know if that happened. I haven't looked in that. I haven't been asked to research that, but that's required by the 01:53:23
code. 01:53:26
That's an indication that you're telling the recorder. 01:53:29
Notices up so we can do two things. 01:53:32
We can determine whether the letter complies with the code, and we can set a meeting for the 14 day notice period so that you can 01:53:35
interview candidates for the. 01:53:40
Vacancy. 01:53:44
So that's the purpose of that code section is to give notice to the recorder to notice up a meeting. 01:53:45
And I don't know what your procedures were here, so you'd have to go back and look at that. That's a matter for another time. 01:53:51
That's a matter for another time. And if you want to take it up, I'm not even recommending that you take it up. I'm. 01:53:58
I'm neutral on this issue. I'll give you my legal opinion if you ask for it. 01:54:03
7 is retain legal counsel, which is not the same as the city attorney. 01:54:08
That's in the Heber City code. 01:54:12
And that's in the code for a very good reason. 01:54:14
If the city attorney is giving advice that you think is favorable to the mayor, you have a right to go get independent legal 01:54:17
counsel because you can say, well, the city attorney is more favorable to the mayor. 01:54:23
And by the way, I called the City Council member on a. 01:54:29
A local City Council who's an attorney and I said, do you have ever? 01:54:32
Do you have that in your code? He said no. 01:54:36
We've known our attorney and we know that he wouldn't have a conflict of interest, but if he did, he would let us know. 01:54:38
And yes, the Council. 01:54:44
Feels like we have the inherent power. 01:54:45
To go get our own counsel. But I, instead of having an inherent power, I wanted that. 01:54:48
You put in the code so you actually have the actual authority to do it, so it's not debated. 01:54:53
Review and inspect any record or document. I have a question about that one. Sure. 01:54:58
I I don't love it. 01:55:02
But what? 01:55:05
What do we mean by retaining legal counsel? Like who? So let's say. 01:55:08
There was an agreement, a disagreement between the City Council and the mayor. 01:55:12
Who would? 01:55:17
So the the. 01:55:19
City Council could sue the mayor if it got. 01:55:20
Crossways to. 01:55:23
That extent or what's the I think? 01:55:24
The purpose of this is for if the city, what are the implications I guess if the city attorney issues an opinion. 01:55:27
And the opinion? 01:55:34
Is not. 01:55:35
If the City Council says we want a different legal, we want another legal opinion, the City Council has the ability to go get 01:55:37
another law firm instead of the city attorney and get a legal opinion. And when you get the legal opinion, then you have something 01:55:41
to talk about. 01:55:46
With the city attorney to say, hey, we think your opinion, have you considered this? And by the way, city attorneys are not always 01:55:50
right. They're not always correct. So somebody can say, well, we think you're wrong, we think, you know, we should. 01:55:57
Disregard your opinion and my response is let's look at state code first, let's look at your city code second. So I think it just 01:56:03
gives the City Council the opportunity to be protected in the event something like that happens. I'm with you, Ezra. But that it 01:56:10
is so few and far between. But I have been in instances where. 01:56:16
And I love that you admit that city attorneys are wrong. They're wrong. 01:56:23
Quite often, in fact, the state corrects them a lot. And Mr. Riddle, is that part of your experience that you've seen that happen? 01:56:26
I've never seen it happen. 01:56:35
But the city of Orem did retain me as the. 01:56:37
The City of Orem is the council manager form of government, so the manager. 01:56:40
Is a member of the governing body. 01:56:45
And so when the new council took over, they said we want to know what our. 01:56:48
What our? 01:56:52
Rights and duties are as council members so the retain me. 01:56:53
And there was friction because the Council was now asserting their rights and. 01:56:57
And duties and the city manager said I've always done that and. 01:57:02
And so therefore, so there are things that maybe the council decided to do that the city manager didn't like. 01:57:06
So there is a city attorney. 01:57:12
That worked with the manager and then you. 01:57:14
The Council separately. 01:57:16
The city attorney advises the council and. 01:57:18
The city manager. 01:57:21
But the. 01:57:23
They wanted an independent person to represent just the City Council. And by the way, very little conflict, the city attorney. 01:57:24
Of Orem is probably one of the best to city attorney, if not the best city attorney in the state. He's a great friend of mine. 01:57:32
Respect him and I respect his judgment. There were so there was really no conflict. It's not that we didn't agree with everything, 01:57:38
but we resolved our disagreements that. 01:57:42
We saw. 01:57:46
Something one way and he saw the other. We would sit down and discuss it. So and that's what city. 01:57:48
That's what attorneys do to try to get it resolved for for the body. And so that's that's the intent of this right. That's the 01:57:53
intent is to give you that opportunity. Sorry, I'm just trying to. 01:57:57
To see what. 01:58:02
What the implications of that would be so? 01:58:05
If we got to the point where we needed to do this. 01:58:08
The city attorney still represents the mayor and council. 01:58:12
That's right, the. 01:58:15
Legal. 01:58:16
Council that the City Council retains would. 01:58:18
Just inform the city or would they actually represent the City Council? 01:58:21
Because then like, let's say we get this opinion. 01:58:27
And it's something that needs to go to court. 01:58:29
Then do we have to have our city attorney defend? 01:58:31
The other city attorney's position like why not just get a new city attorney at that point? I don't trying to see that I think 01:58:34
benefit of that. 01:58:37
The bigger intent is that it just affords us the opportunity to get that second opinion. If we want to get a second opinion, I I 01:58:40
don't think you have standing as a City Council to sue the mayor. 01:58:45
I think everything it. 01:58:50
Regarding I mean. 01:58:51
So when I did the change of government. 01:58:54
Presentation to the city of Orem. They wanted to consider it. 01:58:57
And at the end they said, well, what's your opinion? And I said, well, I grew up on a farm and if it's not broke then. 01:59:00
You know. 01:59:06
Don't pick, just fix it. If it's broken, fix it. If not, change it. 01:59:07
And then they said, well, what? What would you? 01:59:11
Preference be on a form of government. 01:59:13
And I said I can tell you. 01:59:15
The most preferred form of government by talking to all these City Council members and mayors, it's always the government that the 01:59:17
other city has, right? No one is ever happy with their City Council, so you have to work together as a body and the code doesn't 01:59:23
allow you to have standing to sue. 01:59:29
What it means though, is you can get a separate legal opinion from somebody. 01:59:35
That may not have an affiliation with the mayor where maybe the city attorney is clouded in. 01:59:39
That the city attorney favors the mayor's position. 01:59:45
And so it's a healthy thing to do and then. 01:59:48
If the different legal opinion came in, I think that the city attorney would have to consider. 01:59:53
You know other people's opinions and it would be resolved with the council, so the council could make policies or pass a 01:59:58
resolution that this is the opinion that we accept. 02:00:03
Oh, OK, so you you have that right as a council because you're a policy making. That would make sense if we can then. 02:00:08
Right. 02:00:13
Take that legal advice. 02:00:14
Make an official resolution to say. 02:00:15
And I would, I would city attorney need to defend this position that we've received from this other. I'm sorry, whatever I would 02:00:17
agree with that. 02:00:20
And I would recommend it would never really go to a resolution, it would be. 02:00:24
It would be resolved in the backroom. 02:00:29
In the smoke filled background and I don't know if you noticed that I was a little dyslexic there. I have 7-9 and eight so that 02:00:31
wasn't intentional. All the numbers are there. 02:00:36
Yeah, so, uh. 02:00:41
Are we through with that section? 02:00:44
I'm sorry, record or document city and investigate the affairs of the city and right. 02:00:47
Any department. So right now the City Council has to comply with grandma. 02:00:53
To get a record. 02:00:58
And grandma's not intended for the governing body. The governing body should have access to every record in the city. 02:00:59
Now, it doesn't mean you can distribute the record and it may be a protected record. 02:01:06
And so later on. 02:01:10
That if you want to see a record, it should be in consultation with the City Council. If you want to make a copy, the best 02:01:12
practice would be if you want to see any record, you should have access to it because you have to make a decision on behalf of the 02:01:16
elected officials. They elected you to make decisions. 02:01:21
So to keep records from the. 02:01:26
From the governing body. 02:01:27
Is abhorrent to Utah law. 02:01:29
You're not. 02:01:31
You're not. 02:01:32
Members of the public seeking a grandma. 02:01:33
Request. 02:01:36
To me. 02:01:37
That is an anathema to good governance. You should have access to every document the city possesses. 02:01:38
Doesn't mean you should make a copy of it my. 02:01:46
Best practice would be if you don't need to make a copy of a protected document. 02:01:48
So for example, if you wanted to see my employment file, you have a right to see that. If I've been written up or anything in my 02:01:53
employment file, I don't recommend you make a copy of it because if it gets distributed, you may have a claim against you. 02:01:59
Somebody could make a claim that you've distributed information that's confidential. 02:02:05
If you do make a copy, I recommend that you use it for your purposes. You need and return the copy back to the city. 02:02:09
And the city can destroy that copy. 02:02:16
So in other words. 02:02:18
This gives you access to every record. 02:02:19
Exactly what the governing body should have. How can you make a decisions and avoid or? 02:02:22
Without proper information. 02:02:27
And so and again. 02:02:29
I this is the impression that you've given me is that you want access to all the records. You want to make decisions based on all 02:02:31
the facts. 02:02:35
Your comments on that? 02:02:41
Love it. 02:02:43
Let's move to #8. 02:02:43
Yes, it's #9. 02:02:46
But I think. 02:02:48
I have it. 02:02:49
Yes. To review, inspect any record or document. 02:02:50
By the city. 02:02:54
And then it says investigate the next one down, investigate the affairs of the city and any department or division thereof, and 02:02:57
any contract for the proper performance of any obligations of the city. 02:03:02
And you're the. 02:03:07
You're the policymaking and the reason that actually came out of the city manager's duties and the reason you're the policymaker. 02:03:09
And so Congress does this all the time. They send subpoenas out. So they send subpoenas out and they ask the drug companies, why 02:03:14
are you charging the US? 02:03:19
Citizens, more than you're charging. 02:03:24
For the same drug and. 02:03:26
Europe and so that's how they make policies they. 02:03:28
They do investigations and so you should have that authority to investigate. 02:03:31
And again, if it's confidential, you can you can. 02:03:35
You can just. 02:03:40
Come to a consensus that we're going to start this investigation and assign a council member to do it. 02:03:43
I prefer to lean on making things public except for. 02:03:49
Employment issues or. 02:03:54
Our confidential issues, those issues that are covered by the. 02:03:55
The Closed Meetings Act is the things that I think you have to be concerned with. 02:04:00
But you are the policy making. 02:04:04
Body and should. 02:04:07
Be able to investigate issues. 02:04:09
Any grievance moving on? 02:04:10
2.04.010. 02:04:12
Looking good. 02:04:17
OK. 02:04:18
That first day is out of state code. 02:04:20
So I'm just mimicking state code. Great. 02:04:24
B. The only offices of the city of your class that you're required to have. 02:04:29
And I did this for education for the Council. 02:04:34
The only officers you're required in your city to have are the city treasurer. 02:04:37
And the city recorder. 02:04:42
And so you're required to have those offices. So we put in the code that those offices are created because you're required to 02:04:44
recreate those office. 02:04:47
All the other offices, the city attorney, the city engineer, city planner or whatever other offices you have. 02:04:51
Are all discretionary. 02:04:57
But I stayed with your code. The only question is do you have a municipal engineer? 02:04:59
You know I was. 02:05:04
Told that, it's combined now with. 02:05:06
The theme, right? 02:05:08
They're separate, but he holds both now. 02:05:10
Pardon me. 02:05:13
Right. 02:05:13
I agree. 02:05:14
He was asking about the structure of. 02:05:16
The municipal engineer is Nassim that role. 02:05:18
Yes, Naseem is. 02:05:21
Both the city engineer and the public works director. 02:05:23
Well, by policy there are two separate positions. 02:05:26
No, by our policy. 02:05:30
By our practice, we have. 02:05:32
Well, I know currently in the old code we saw that they were. 02:05:34
They were mentioned separately. 02:05:38
Which was strange. 02:05:41
We have the ability to point whatever officers they want. We don't have to. We don't have, so we could create one. 02:05:42
So there's two parts to this. 02:05:48
See the first part if you do appoint a city engineer. 02:05:51
The City engineer is required by Utah law to have the same duties as an engineer in the city of the 1st and 2nd class. 02:05:55
Just so make sure you understand that you can't. 02:06:02
Diminish the duties of an engineer. The engineer has to have the obligations which are consistent with the duties. 02:06:05
Of city engineer in the cities of the 1st and 2nd class So if you're going to appoint a city engineer then you need to go compare 02:06:13
what the duties and obligations are of cities of first and second class. The second part is it is you're establishing the offices 02:06:19
and I think you should read this carefully because. 02:06:25
We've already. 02:06:31
I took the city recorder and city treasurer out because they're they're addressed in B. 02:06:32
And which is very important because B is required and C is permissive. 02:06:38
So are those the offices that you have in the city, the finance director of the city attorney and the city engineer, are there 02:06:44
others? 02:06:47
You also have city manager in here. 02:06:53
It reads finance director, city attorney, city manager, city engineer are created and established. 02:06:55
Does this actually create these offices or does it allow us to create these offices? 02:07:01
You're creating these offices in the code, and by the way, your code has already created it, so. 02:07:06
I have actually. You'll notice that I'm not amending your code, I'm just taking two of those out. 02:07:12
And putting those above. 02:07:18
But I did put the city manager in there because that is an. 02:07:21
Office. 02:07:24
Under Utah law. 02:07:26
OK, so that was not in your code and. 02:07:28
I think it is a permissive. 02:07:31
Appointment you don't have to have a city manager, you don't have to have a city attorney, so. 02:07:34
But the city attorney was already created. I just added the city manager to be more reflective of Utah law. And literally I have 02:07:40
to cross reference you, the city attorney. 02:07:45
Pardon me? Well, yeah, Going anywhere already exists, and he's left it in here. 02:07:50
OK, so the only thing I've. 02:07:55
Taken out as a city recorder, city treasurer and move those to be and I added the city manager because that's an office that is 02:07:58
permissive. 02:08:02
And you're creating that office. 02:08:06
Is this intended to be an exhaustive list? 02:08:10
Pardon me, is this intended to be an exhaustive list of May? 02:08:12
Establish. 02:08:16
Well, we have other departments, so I think. 02:08:19
No see. 02:08:22
You can establish pointed. 02:08:24
And it so these are the appointed officials and the other ones would be hired. But on the previous page, it said the City Council 02:08:25
can create any office it may deem necessary for good governance of the city. So it's not exhaustive. We have the power to create 02:08:30
others. This is just specified. 02:08:34
Correct. 02:08:40
That's correct. So. 02:08:41
I'm trying to stay with your current code of the offices you've already created. 02:08:43
And just clarifying that you created an office of the City Manager already, it's created in a different section. 02:08:47
But if you're talking about the creation for simplicity purposes, for the public and for you. 02:08:53
These are the offices that you've created. So literally it's a clarification. It's not a different. 02:08:58
I'm not. 02:09:05
I'm not suggesting you haven't created the office of City Manager. You have, but it's in a different section of the code. But I 02:09:05
want to make sure that you understand that those are the offices that you created. But you're right, you can create other offices 02:09:10
you can create. 02:09:14
City Development Office You can create a city community. 02:09:19
A community representative office, whatever you want to create, you can create. I just point out that there are other offices and 02:09:25
so if this was intended to be. 02:09:30
Consistent with the offices that we currently have. 02:09:34
It is. It is not. 02:09:37
Inclusive of all of those, we have a city planning planning office. 02:09:39
OK, we have an HR office. We have a communications office. 02:09:43
OK, so so previously those were created by the city manager because they had. 02:09:48
The authority to do that so. 02:09:52
Do we need to? 02:09:54
Basically, if we're going to take this power back to the City Council, do we need to? 02:09:55
Specify all those out or. 02:10:00
What do we do with those? 02:10:03
And park direct. 02:10:05
Yeah, of course, we've got Brian, so. 02:10:06
But they don't have to be. 02:10:10
Publicly. 02:10:11
We don't have to specify all of them out. 02:10:12
Well, I'm saying with your code, so I didn't see those in the code as offices accreted. I saw those positions that were created. 02:10:15
So I'm making a distinction in my mind and you don't seem to be making the same distinction. So do you believe that there are 02:10:19
appointed offices? 02:10:23
I don't see why they would be, and I'm not arguing, I'm just asking because I can add whatever the City Council wants to the code 02:10:29
now. I'm fine with that if these are just the appointed offices that we're talking about here and everyone else's. 02:10:34
Just employees of the city. 02:10:39
With their own divisions and we separate those duties out. 02:10:41
Yeah. 02:10:44
I don't see why you'd have to spell out. 02:10:45
Each and every. 02:10:48
You're never going to get the code to write every single type of position and division and. 02:10:50
You know. 02:10:55
So then, so any other questions about that? Did that satisfy? 02:10:56
You OK? 02:11:01
Those can be created by your administrator who? 02:11:04
Whomever you select, whether it's the mayor of the city manager. 02:11:07
Are both you could. 02:11:11
Do that. 02:11:12
D is because C is permissive. The City Council may eliminate any office listed in Subsection C. 02:11:14
Is not required to select an officer to fill a vacancy in Subsection C and is not prohibited from selecting a person or entity to 02:11:22
oversee one or more to the offices listed in Subsection C. 02:11:27
Now, council member Nair said if a. 02:11:33
He when in our conversation today he mentioned that if an entity is selected. 02:11:37
The entity has the select an individual to be the officer and that that person has to take an oath, so I've added that. 02:11:41
In the. 02:11:48
Councilmember Nair. 02:11:50
So that. 02:11:51
So if you've hired my firm, so I should? 02:11:53
Be named as. 02:11:56
Be the one that my firm would name. 02:11:57
As a city attorney and take not the first. 02:12:00
And and so I again, I'm getting feedback from all of you at different times and I'm trying to. 02:12:02
Keep up with the feedback and thank you. 02:12:08
OK. Any questions regarding that? In other words, if if the city? 02:12:12
Now if the city treasurer resigns. 02:12:16
Are the city recorder resigned? You have to fill it. But anybody a city attorney resigns, you don't have, you don't need a city 02:12:18
attorney, you don't have to do that. 02:12:22
I would recommend you do, but you don't have to do that. 02:12:26
Appointment. The Mayor, with advice and consent of the City Council, shall appoint A qualified person or entity as described in To 02:12:29
fill the offices and Sections B&C. 02:12:34
So the mayor has to do these offices by advice and consent. 02:12:41
There's not a lot of changes in F&G it looks like Yeah and F&G the. 02:12:46
And then in GI just said unless set out. 02:12:53
In an employment agreement, the persons or entities appointed. 02:12:56
She'll serve at the pleasure of the mayor and the City Council and maybe remove that anytime with or without caused by affirmative 02:13:00
vote of the City Council. 02:13:04
Now I change that because you had them. 02:13:08
You had this super. 02:13:10
Vote. And some of you didn't like the Super vote. 02:13:12
But that's your decision. You can keep the code as is as the mayor. 02:13:16
And a majority of the City Council or all the City Council members except the mayor. So you have to decide if you want to remove 02:13:21
an officer how you want to vote. State code doesn't say that. 02:13:26
Stakeholds as this majority vote to take any act by the council, except if you're taking a power or giving the mayor power, then 02:13:31
it's that. 02:13:36
It's this. So it's changed. So this is the famous power grab. So this is going back to just the simple majority. I have no comment 02:13:40
on that. I'm just saying that state code clarification for clarification for clarification. I'm fine with this. 02:13:46
Especially moving to A6 member council where the mayor has to vote. Now you need 4 votes instead of. 02:13:54
Before you could do 3 two. Now it would be 3 three if there was a tie, so. 02:13:58
It's kind of. 02:14:02
Or to his point, right? 02:14:03
So sorry, I want to get to the entity comment. I mentioned that there was something to address. 02:14:05
That there would be. 02:14:11
A person within the entity that's that's selected. 02:14:13
I'm just not seeing where that. 02:14:16
And maybe I have the wrong topic. I'll be candid. I'm not sure where I put it and I'm sure if it's in this, OK, we'll keep going. 02:14:18
If I don't because I gave my draft and I don't know if I have my latest draft, but I will. 02:14:24
Make these changes that are recommended tonight and send you a different draft. 02:14:30
It was in section D. 02:14:35
Paragraph 3. 02:14:38
The bottom half. 02:14:39
If an entity is selected, that entity shall designate a person to represent the city and take the oath of office. Is that what you 02:14:40
were asking? 02:14:44
Yeah, where's that at? 02:14:47
Underneath. 02:14:49
2.04 dot. 02:14:52
010. 02:14:54
Section D, paragraph 3. 02:14:56
I don't have that on my copy. 02:15:01
And I'm sorry, I got the cool copy. 02:15:06
I just say it's not permitted to. 02:15:10
From selecting a person or entity to oversee, I did. I did put that language in, but I don't see it on my copy. OK Ezra, on my 02:15:12
copy it's the next sentence, so it's just yours is missing the sentence but it reads. If an entity is selected, that entity shall 02:15:17
designate a person to represent the city. 02:15:22
And take the oath of office. 02:15:28
OK, is that language acceptable? So it is. It is in there, it's just that I don't see it on my copy. 02:15:30
Yep, it it might need to go in a different spot just so it applies to all all. 02:15:35
There's a lot of entity language in here. 02:15:40
And I want to make sure that applies to all. 02:15:42
All the entities rather than just in that section. 02:15:44
So my feeling is that that's a procedural issue. 02:15:46
If you adopt. 02:15:49
The code then we can change around where. 02:15:51
Those provisions go so. 02:15:53
The question for the Council is, do you accept? 02:15:55
Council members near recommendation that I. 02:15:58
Drafted in the code. 02:16:01
And then? 02:16:02
Council member Nair may be correct that it may be better situated in another section of the code. I'm good with that. 02:16:04
Yeah, I. 02:16:11
I have a so I have a question under E appointment right there on the area there. 02:16:12
The mayor, with the advice and consent of the City Council, shall appoint and I'm wondering if it should be a may appoint. 02:16:18
It has. I would. 02:16:26
Say it has to be a shall because the positions in B are required Section B. 02:16:28
So like your recorder and your treasurer. 02:16:33
And as per section C there, that's not the case. 02:16:36
Correct. 02:16:38
But. 02:16:39
Well. 02:16:41
It is confusing. I see what you're saying now because I'm saying that the mayor shall appoint, but other up. 02:16:43
This paragraph above. 02:16:47
Says the mayor doesn't have to appoint for a vacancy, so I need to clarify that. 02:16:50
But the mayor shall appoint somebody who's a treasurer, so let me let me clarify that. 02:16:54
So I understand what you're saying. 02:16:59
Is it? 02:17:05
It seems like. 02:17:06
The shall refer. 02:17:07
Pertinent to the. 02:17:09
Qualifications rather than. 02:17:10
A mandate to hire all of those positions. 02:17:13
Well, that was the intent of it, but I can understand the confusion and I like clarity. 02:17:17
Over. 02:17:22
Being right. 02:17:23
On the next page, FGH. These are all largely unchanged. 02:17:26
Right, minor. 02:17:31
Grammatical or clerical edits? But can we go ahead and just jump? 02:17:32
To the. 02:17:37
I have substantial edit which was. 02:17:38
2.04 point. 02:17:41
030 I want to stop at letter G if it's all right. 02:17:42
It talks at the end of affirmative vote of the mayor and you struck out the mayor and the majority of City Council. 02:17:46
So I'm just thinking. So we left it just for the City Council and we're. 02:17:52
I think your copy is different than mine again. 02:17:57
Because mine doesn't show that those are struck out. 02:18:00
Mine does too. 02:18:05
So we want to say we want to. Do we want to? 02:18:07
Do we want to remove the mayor from that decision or do we want to leave the mayor into that decision? 02:18:09
I would leave him in so the way mine reads. 02:18:13
And this is what I would advocate for unless set out in an employment agreement. 02:18:16
The person or entity appointed to the offices listed in subsection B&C above shall serve at the pleasure of the mayor. 02:18:22
And the City Council. 02:18:30
And may be removed at anytime, with or without cause by the affirmative. 02:18:31
Vote of. 02:18:35
The mayor. 02:18:37
Or a majority of the City Council. 02:18:38
And then it cuts out all. 02:18:41
Council members, except the mayor. 02:18:42
So it does remove the mayor. 02:18:45
No, you just, you just write yours. It does strike that out. Yeah. I misunderstood where you were saying the strikethrough was. I 02:18:47
thought you were saying in that paragraph. So the feedback I got was some of you didn't want a supermajority. 02:18:53
And so I changed this to what state code says. The minimum you have to have is a majority of the voting members of the council. 02:18:59
And again, if one of your absence, the mayor does get to vote. 02:19:04
But you can keep this in I don't have a preference as whatever you prefer. 02:19:10
Does the mayor vote on? 02:19:15
All the appointed offices are just the city manager. 02:19:17
The city manager doesn't vote so. 02:19:22
No, no, the mayor does the mayor boat? 02:19:24
I know the mayor votes for like when we're appointing a city manager, the mayor votes. Is that the same for all of the other 02:19:26
offices? The code is that the mayor brings the appointment to us and we vote. 02:19:30
So it's that a mayor appoints, the council consents. 02:19:36
And let me mayor votes. Let me seek the clarification. I've read the code several times, but I'll ask the city managers, does the 02:19:39
mayor vote on your appointment? 02:19:43
I can't see it listed on the website, so that was a question. 02:19:49
Pages. 02:19:53
Weather, yeah. So this when it's describing the mayors duties. 02:20:00
On 2. 02:20:04
OK. 02:20:06
OK, so that's one of the. 02:20:09
That's from state code. So again, that's out of state code so and I'm sorry I. 02:20:12
Forgot that issue. I just wanted to make sure you you brought it up and I want to make sure it's clarified. Thank you. 02:20:18
So do we want to just say the same manner as the City Council or the city manager? 02:20:25
That way, the American. 02:20:30
Vote on all those appointees as well. 02:20:32
In accordance with state law. 02:20:35
The way you have it is exactly the way the mayor. 02:20:36
Votes for the. 02:20:40
The city manager. 02:20:42
So. 02:20:45
But you're that's what I'd like changing the sentence to say, the mayor and the majority of the City Council. 02:20:48
Correct. 02:20:55
But you're extending this to all of the offices now. Yeah. So you've already extended to the all the office. It's not just to the. 02:20:55
So it would be more proper if you're following state code to say. 02:21:03
Except for. 02:21:08
Provision 2.0, whatever it was. 02:21:10
Then it's just the majority of the City Council. 02:21:13
I think we can, yeah. The mayor brings the appointment. He's alright. So that's an affirmative vote right there. Correct. Agree. 02:21:16
Yeah, and I'm fine with the mayor voting on those so that way. 02:21:23
You essentially need 4 votes. 02:21:27
For all of the. 02:21:28
Offices that are listed here rather than. 02:21:31
3 Umm. 02:21:33
Because if the mayor brings the appointments, 3 council members say. 02:21:34
No, then it would die. But if the mayor gets to vote then. 02:21:36
They would need 4. 02:21:40
And that's the same way the city manager's done. 02:21:42
I don't think it makes a difference because again, if the mayor is bringing the appointment to you. 02:21:46
Then it's three votes and him. 02:21:51
Because he brought the appointment. 02:21:53
So if he doesn't get to vote then. 02:21:55
It's just three out of the five, but it's really. 02:21:57
4 out of 6 because of the mayor's bringing the appointment and he wouldn't bring an appointment if it wasn't wasn't someone he 02:22:01
supported, right? Exactly. So if the City Council disagreed with the mayor. 02:22:05
And voted three no. 02:22:09
Then the mayor's appointments now void or null so they get voted down. Correct? But then it would still just be. 02:22:11
A3 versus 3 vote. 02:22:18
Keep in mind that this is both for the appointment and the removal and so. 02:22:20
Where while you're you're just. 02:22:24
Discussion point is revolving around the mayor bringing an appointment to the table. 02:22:26
That's right. 02:22:30
This this has the same impact in the reverse, which will likely not. 02:22:30
Well, potentially could have. 02:22:35
The mayor in disagreement with. 02:22:37
The removal. 02:22:39
Is that accurate or is it not separate? 02:22:40
Lines of code because we previously went over the. 02:22:43
Removal the discharge any employee with a majority vote and now this section is talking specifically about. 02:22:45
The appointment. 02:22:52
I don't know. That'd be great. Yeah, No, they'd be a great conflict in that, that instance. I was thinking more just. 02:22:54
Purely in the in the affirmative, the mayor brings somebody. 02:23:00
They want to point. 02:23:03
If three City Council members said no, we don't want that person, even though the mayor. 02:23:04
Agrees. 02:23:09
They wouldn't let me make a couple of clarifications. 02:23:11
It's a difference with no distinction. May be removed at anytime, with or without cosplay. 02:23:16
Let me let me say this, this is the term of office. So this was already in your code. The only thing I've added and let's set out 02:23:20
an employment agreement. 02:23:24
Because if you have an employment agreement for the term with that has a term in it. 02:23:29
That you can't remove that person unless you comply with the employment agreement. So I've added that. I've added the offices in 02:23:33
BNC to clarify which offices we're talking about. 02:23:38
And other than that, the only clarification I made was how you vote. 02:23:43
But this is the term of office. This is, in other words, everybody serves at the pleasure of the City Council, somebody except 02:23:47
somebody who has a term agreement. 02:23:51
And they serve according to the term agreement. 02:23:56
Yeah, OK. 02:23:58
So it's a. It's a. 02:24:00
Distinction without a difference. 02:24:01
Yeah, well, and the results the same. 02:24:03
I'll leave it the way it is in your current code. 02:24:07
But the the. 02:24:09
The information I was getting from the council members, you don't want a supermajority except when it's required by state law. 02:24:11
Yeah. 02:24:17
You decide. I don't like a supermajority unless it's required by state law. 02:24:20
I I agree with that. 02:24:25
Do you disagree? 02:24:29
I was the one that advocated for the Super majority. 02:24:31
Call me a leading heart. You gotta watch out for everyone's employment. 02:24:36
No, but I have no complaints with it. 02:24:41
All right. Then I assume that we're going to leave it in the way. 02:24:45
Was described. 02:24:48
OK. 02:24:50
You're good. 02:24:54
And then I just kind of clarified. 02:24:56
And H and then we move on to. 02:24:59
To any other questions regarding that section, no. Can we jump forward to 030A? There's a bunch of changes in there. 02:25:01
Yeah. So what happened your code right now? So let me just tell you my understanding. 02:25:09
And if my understanding is wrong, this is would be a great time to correct me and embarrass me in front of your citizens here. But 02:25:14
my understanding is the mayor. 02:25:18
Wishes not to appoint a city manager. 02:25:23
And that. 02:25:26
At this time. 02:25:28
And remember, you have in your code the right to. 02:25:30
Require him to appoint a city manager if. 02:25:33
The his strategy doesn't workout. 02:25:36
And so I had to change this section because it was the city manager duties. 02:25:38
So I called it the administrator, whoever you. 02:25:43
Decide to administrate the city, whoever you give that power to. So these really are the duties that the city manager currently 02:25:46
has. 02:25:50
So I've just tried to clarify. 02:25:55
Those. 02:25:57
Things and some of those. 02:25:58
I don't think I've made any substantive changes in here. 02:26:02
Other than. 02:26:06
So you're saying that the chief administrative officer? 02:26:10
You're saying that whoever chose will be the chief administrative officer and that wouldn't that be the same as the city manager 02:26:15
who's also the chief administrative officer? 02:26:19
Well, well. 02:26:22
To my understanding. 02:26:24
The mayor is the chief administrative officer and there's a conflict. 02:26:25
With how we've. 02:26:29
Given the powers out from previous council. 02:26:30
Right. So you have three options. You can do a city manager. 02:26:33
Which is permitted under Utah code. 02:26:36
You can do the mayor. 02:26:39
Are you going to assign? 02:26:40
Other individuals on the council to run different departments. 02:26:43
And and so you have those three options. I don't have a preference. I don't know if. 02:26:47
What others, mostly other cities, have. 02:26:52
Either the mayor runs it or the city manager. I don't think council members want to run. 02:26:55
Their full time job and their families and run the city. 02:27:00
So again, the changes in here were just changes to reflect that. 02:27:03
These are the. 02:27:07
Duties of the administrator. Let me tell you why, if you. 02:27:09
To if you say the mayor this is not working out or the mayor says it's not working out, I want a city manager. We don't change 02:27:12
this section. 02:27:15
Sure. 02:27:19
So, in other words, that we retain the rights to. 02:27:20
Changes and make the mayor hire a city manager, right? 02:27:24
Correct. 02:27:28
So those are the changes in that. 02:27:29
Situation. 02:27:32
So do you accept those changes? Those are just. 02:27:34
More changes regarding taking the city manager out and saying that 2.05. 02:27:37
Good, so this is a new section and I just took this out of Utah code. 02:27:41
So this is what? 02:27:47
The Utah code basically provides and I've tried to quote the code where it's applicable. 02:27:48
And these are the duties. 02:27:55
The powers and duties of the City Council. 02:27:57
In this entire section of the 2.05. That's from state code. Yes, state code. 02:28:00
Basically says that this is these are the duties of the City Council. OK, so regardless of any input that we would have, it 02:28:05
doesn't change state code so we can move on. 02:28:09
Well some of these may be permissive like well state code said you may require by ordinance that any this is C that any of all 02:28:14
appointed officers reside in the municipality. 02:28:19
But again. 02:28:25
That's not in state code, but that's kind of. 02:28:27
You decide that if you want somebody to live in the miss. 02:28:30
Municipality to be the administrator you can say you can require them that they live in Vineyard. 02:28:34
Yeah, you require larger cities. I don't think that would make sense for. 02:28:39
Yeah. 02:28:44
As nice as and I haven't seen any city that requires that. I have seen actually a city manager agreement. 02:28:45
That incentivizes city manager with a cash. 02:28:52
Incentive. 02:28:55
To move to the city, right? 02:28:56
And which I don't think will ever happen, but they did put an incentive in for the manager to move into the city. 02:28:59
Did you move here when you became like, hey, I want to be here? 02:29:06
I moved here much earlier so it was just a nice perk. 02:29:10
Sorry, I don't see any. So anyway, these are the powers that you have. 02:29:16
And I highlighted I because I wanted to make sure. 02:29:21
You understand, I think we've gone over this, that you have the executive duties, no one else does. 02:29:24
You delegate those, then you get to delegate to whomever you would like. But once you delegate to a mayor, it's difficult to get 02:29:30
back. Not the city manager or anybody else, but to the mayor, it's difficult to get back a supermajority. Yeah. 02:29:37
OK, hold on one SEC, sorry. 02:29:44
There's a couple. 02:29:46
New additions here. So I just wanted to so these are just together duties you set tax levies you. 02:29:48
May remove from the mayor power. 02:29:54
And it tells you how the vote is under. 02:29:57
Utah code. 02:29:59
And and and. 02:30:01
May require Sorry M. 02:30:02
Pardon me, I was looking at. 02:30:05
So we're getting there quicker and then. 02:30:08
Started. I know, I'm sorry. 02:30:10
May require the attendance of any person to give testimony or produce records, documents, or things. 02:30:12
For inspection. 02:30:18
Copying or examination necessary. 02:30:19
Or useful for the governance of the municipality. So in theory, the council could compel a resident to attend a City Council 02:30:22
meeting and testify. 02:30:26
You can do that. You can. You can require any person to do it. You can require so. 02:30:31
I think the hypothetical that the legislature was looking at is if you have a city employee, that won't give you a record. 02:30:37
You can compel them to appear. 02:30:42
In front of the City Council and. 02:30:45
And explain why they're not giving the record and require them to produce the record. 02:30:47
Now, if it's a confidential record, you would. 02:30:51
Compelled them to come to the. 02:30:54
Close. 02:30:56
And compel them to produce the record. 02:30:57
So that's an indication right there. 02:31:00
That you're not subject to grandma. You can compel them if they don't. If you they say, oh, you have to comply with grandma. You 02:31:02
don't. That's that's only for. 02:31:06
People that are not. 02:31:10
The governing body. 02:31:12
Of the city, you don't have to do grandma. 02:31:14
And there's an indication right there you don't want to do grandma. Then I'll compel you to show up to City Council and give you 02:31:16
the record. 02:31:19
So yes. 02:31:23
And watch out. Holy, right, We're going to have so much. I'm just kidding. 02:31:24
Yeah, I've never seen this. 02:31:28
Right, if you want to. 02:31:30
I think it's necessary. 02:31:32
You probably go meet with a resident. 02:31:34
Find out what is it. 02:31:36
Is this a state code though right? I think state code permits it OK per UCA 10 three I love it 610. 02:31:37
I I just tried to. 02:31:45
I tried to let you know what your duties are under state code. 02:31:47
Now, Councilmember Nair said, you know you don't want to chase Utah law, and that's true. I don't like chasing Utah law. 02:31:50
But I. 02:31:56
My response was I think. 02:31:56
Because you're. 02:31:58
You're a new council, you should know what your duties are. 02:31:59
And maybe three years from now, when state code changes, we just say the duties of the City Council are found in the following 02:32:03
state codes. 02:32:06
So I think it's a. 02:32:10
Point well taken, but right now I think there's an education. 02:32:11
For not only. 02:32:15
City Council, but also so for the residents to understand what your powers and duties are. Thank you. 02:32:16
Yeah, as I read this and it would appear that this could apply to also a council member. 02:32:23
Yeah, if the Council so votes, yeah. 02:32:31
So it would take a. 02:32:37
A majority vote of the City Council to issue the subpoena is that that's correct. 02:32:39
Yeah, yeah. 02:32:43
Or can any any former? 02:32:45
We have no procedure for doing that, so we just. 02:32:46
Will a procedure is we have a majority vote? 02:32:49
OK, Yeah. 02:32:52
Who do we offer to establish it by ordinance? Just reading to the state. 02:32:54
To issue, let me just say this. Let's don't get hung up on that. As in state code. I wanted you to know it's in state code. I 02:32:59
doubt you'll ever use that. I've never seen it. You never heard of it being used, but I think the legislature wanted to. 02:33:05
Impress upon the City Council the the importance of you having every record and every bit of testimony 100% because you're the 02:33:12
policy making body of the city and to withhold a record from you is an anathema to the state code and this is another evidence of 02:33:17
that. 02:33:22
That you can compel somebody to produce a record to you. 02:33:28
Super love it. 02:33:33
Any other comments on that? The code subsequent section also has a state code reference, so it looks. 02:33:36
Right, I've tried to reference state code. 02:33:42
Are there any teeth? 02:33:44
Included in that language. 02:33:46
Any I'm sorry, what? 02:33:48
The enforcement mechanism, yeah, I think if you issue a subpoena under state law. 02:33:50
And you they won't comply. 02:33:56
I think you go to go to court and ask for. 02:33:59
Order to show cause why they didn't comply with the subpoena. 02:34:03
And either. 02:34:06
The court could force him to comply. That's generally the way it works in the Civil Procedure. Or the court could incarcerate 02:34:07
them, which courts don't like doing. Or the courts could fine them each day that they fail to comply. 02:34:14
And so in order to show cause with the court is just a way to say the court they're not complying with an order. 02:34:20
And if the City Council has. 02:34:26
Gone through their procedures correctly. I think the court would uphold the order because it's in state law. 02:34:28
So. 02:34:34
Any other? 02:34:38
In that section 08. 02:34:39
OK, so I'm on. 02:34:42
2.05 point 02 filling the vacancies. 02:34:44
Is that what you have next on yours? 02:34:48
I do have it OK. It looks like that is just a copy of Utah code, is that correct? Right. 02:34:51
And the reason I put that in there, I want the City Council to understand that Utah code is unambiguous that the City Council is 02:34:56
in charge of all vacancies, not the mayor. 02:35:01
And so you. 02:35:06
Have to comply with ukock code. 02:35:07
And determined by a majority vote. 02:35:09
When a vacancy occurs. 02:35:11
So if the resigning council member doesn't comply with the law, you can't fill the vacancy. 02:35:14
That's your duty as a council is to determine if a vacancy occurs. 02:35:20
Any other questions about that? 02:35:26
OK. 02:35:28
These are the. 02:35:32
What are the implications of? 02:35:33
What you just mentioned there. 02:35:36
So like. 02:35:38
If. 02:35:42
If Sarah. 02:35:44
Eric Council former Councilwoman Cameron was found not to comply with. 02:35:46
State code. 02:35:49
What would happen at that point? 02:35:51
I think the council has three options and I'm not advocating. 02:35:54
Any of them. 02:35:57
I think the council can do nothing because there was a procedure that the council went through and the council can say we don't 02:35:58
have to correct what a former council did. 02:36:03
And that's true. They don't. 02:36:07
They're not required to. 02:36:08
Take corrective action. 02:36:09
Second, they could ask. 02:36:12
Miss Cameron to. 02:36:15
Issue a letter and comply with the code by making it irrevocable and sending it to the. 02:36:17
Municipal legislative body. 02:36:23
And therefore there would be a resignation and the Council can then. 02:36:26
At that point, do two things. 02:36:30
When you could ratify what the last Council did, because they went through the process, right, and they appointed you so the 02:36:32
Council could ratify what the last Council did. 02:36:36
Are the Council. 02:36:41
It would be safer. 02:36:43
That once there's a vacancy to follow what the code says and it says the council. 02:36:45
Then sends it to the recorder. 02:36:49
The council then determines whether there's a vacancy and then the council will have the 14 day period. 02:36:51
And then interview those that apply for the vacancy. 02:36:56
So I think the Council has three options. 02:36:59
The safest one would be either to do nothing or to go through the process set out by code. 02:37:02
The middle 1 I don't think would be objectionable, but it's not permitted by the code. 02:37:07
The ratification of what the former Council had done. 02:37:13
If I were the council, I'd probably. 02:37:16
Pick one or three, either do nothing or go through the process again. 02:37:18
But I'm not making a recommendation. 02:37:23
And I'm not suggesting I have written a letter to the Attorney General. 02:37:25
That a couple cities weren't in compliance, including Vineyard. 02:37:30
And I never received a response from the attorney general. Your former city attorney said disregard my letter. 02:37:33
But the count? 02:37:39
The. 02:37:41
The code is really clear, unambiguous. 02:37:43
That a council member who does not send their resignation. 02:37:46
To the municipal legislative body may rescind it at any time, which is an indication to me. 02:37:49
That if. 02:37:55
If that letter isn't sent, there's no vacancy. 02:37:56
So it's a it's an open question. 02:37:59
Attorneys will disagree. 02:38:01
I've not been asked to give my legal opinion to the city, so I'd rather withhold it. 02:38:03
But there is an open question for the City Council to determine if you want to determine that. 02:38:08
And Lehigh has the same issue and I'm not sure what they're doing and. 02:38:13
I live in Lehigh and. 02:38:17
I don't. 02:38:20
I don't care what they do. 02:38:20
In other words, whoever they appointed is fine with me. 02:38:22
But if they choose to go through the process, which I think. 02:38:25
All the cities should. 02:38:28
With the law, they should go through the process, but it's up to the council to what they want to do. 02:38:29
But I will say this. 02:38:36
If you wait too long. 02:38:38
You're stopped from doing it. 02:38:39
Right. In other words, if you know that the council did not comply with the law, the City Council needs to. 02:38:41
You can't allow a City Council member to vote for a year then go to court and say we want to remove the council. The courts going 02:38:46
to look at you like you're mad. 02:38:50
In other words, you you've ratified it by your actions. 02:38:54
As it were that if I was a court, I'd tell you that you. 02:38:57
So you're a new council, so. 02:39:01
You you get to make the decision. 02:39:03
Or make no decision. 02:39:05
So, and I'm not asking can we table that to another meeting and we're moving on to two points 08. Thank you. 02:39:07
OK. 02:39:14
The governing body may appoint a city manager. 02:39:15
This was the city manager was appointed, so this is a. 02:39:18
Permissive. 02:39:22
Instead of a requirement. 02:39:23
And then I made some changes that you guys have recommended. 02:39:26
For example, on C appointment as directed by the City Council, the mayor with advice and considers the Security Council shall 02:39:32
appoint a city mayor. 02:39:35
So you can direct the mayor to do that that. 02:39:40
Complies with the other one. 02:39:43
I took the bond out. 02:39:45
I don't really care. 02:39:47
If you have a bond. 02:39:48
Eric, do you have a bond? 02:39:50
As far as I know. 02:39:52
You did or did not. 02:39:54
Does he personally take that out? 02:39:57
No, no, the city does. 02:39:58
This was before the. 02:40:02
I believe you were hard before the state code changed it. 02:40:03
Kind of. 02:40:06
Did away with the need for this so I'm fine. 02:40:07
Getting rid of it. 02:40:09
My impression is that. 02:40:11
This is not needed. This is permissive. 02:40:12
And and if I were. 02:40:15
City manager coming in, I would say why do I put a bond? You can terminate me in anytime. 02:40:17
And I don't think the city manager is going to do such damage that you need to. 02:40:23
To I have no. 02:40:27
I know of no case where a City Council has gone against the bond of a city. Have you ever heard of a case like that? 02:40:30
So I. 02:40:37
You know, when the feedback I got was is it necessary? I don't think it is, but. 02:40:38
You have an opinion? 02:40:43
There the state put in some. 02:40:44
Opportunity for. 02:40:48
It's like civil fraud insurance or something like that, so. 02:40:50
Yeah, those aren't really needed. It's referenced in. 02:40:53
There's a paragraph D but then it gets red lined out. They just get rid of it. 02:40:56
So yeah. 02:41:00
Agree. Get rid of E. Did you say no? I'm saying well it's a bullet point, that's fine. 02:41:03
Year red line you are removing. 02:41:08
There's a code section D that says Bond and it talks about the bond for the insurance. 02:41:11
Right. Umm. 02:41:16
That's been removed. 02:41:17
And I think we're all in agreeance. It's fine. We'll just discuss on that. And you know what, in fairness, I didn't go look at the 02:41:18
state code. I'll go look at that because to me, I don't think it's required. I. 02:41:24
I've heard of cities don't they don't require but I'll double check that. Yeah, last year there was a there was a code change. It 02:41:30
covers like city managers, treasurers. 02:41:34
Basically, those who have. 02:41:39
Significant. 02:41:40
Implications of public trust that. 02:41:42
The state. 02:41:44
Has a pool that people pay into to. 02:41:45
To insure against that. So it's not it's not needed anymore. 02:41:48
It does look like there's a. 02:41:51
An entity. 02:41:53
Error that should probably be corrected in that. 02:41:55
Yeah, I think as long as we we have the entity. 02:41:58
Somewhere earlier that covers the whole code that says if it's an entity. 02:42:00
The entity will determine who. 02:42:05
Fills that role, then we'll be fine. I honestly don't think the entity language is needed. 02:42:07
After after that clarification, but it's fine to keep. 02:42:11
Well, and the reason is it's I wanted to. 02:42:14
Open it up to the City Council if you need to hire a former city manager and he owns a company. 02:42:17
And you could hire his company. 02:42:23
To help you, his or her company to help you until you found a city manager. 02:42:25
So instead of trying to go appoint somebody, you could say we'll hire your entity to come in for three months until we find our 02:42:29
city manager. So paragraph I you actually. 02:42:34
Highlight that process the interim manager. 02:42:38
It's common. 02:42:42
And paragraph F as city manager may be a well employee of the city or maybe an individual entity required on a contract basis 02:42:44
without having to status as employee. 02:42:48
But the end of that paragraph in state law says an employment contract with the city manager must not contain an automatic renewal 02:42:54
provision. 02:42:57
So I may be wrong when I said it can't. 02:43:03
Contain a term it. 02:43:07
Probably could contain a term, but it cannot retain. 02:43:09
So you could have a term for two years. 02:43:12
But you can't automatically renew it. 02:43:15
Understood. So I I correct the record when I say that the city manager can't have a term. However, if the city manager has a term. 02:43:17
You have to use the language and I think it's 507103507. 02:43:24
So. 02:43:29
Any other questions about? 02:43:33
I just kind of can we jump to I think no, Sir. 02:43:36
Go ahead. 02:43:39
In CI think we have a conflict of. 02:43:40
And here I think it just says. 02:43:43
Advice and consent of the City Council. 02:43:45
Rather than. 02:43:48
The previous section from state code that says the mayor gets to vote on the appointment of. 02:43:49
City manager. That's the only one. 02:43:54
And again, and yeah, an E as well, so. 02:43:59
So see consistency we're talking about earlier. 02:44:01
So the only thing I've added to see was. 02:44:04
So this is already in your code, I just said as directed by the City Council. 02:44:06
Do you want me to take that out? 02:44:11
With that, no, no, no, that's referencing us retaining the power to direct the mayor to appoint 1. 02:44:13
Yeah, so when we added the code language from. 02:44:20
Kind of spelling out the mayor's duties. One of those from the state code is that the mayor gets to vote. 02:44:24
In the appointment of a city manager. 02:44:28
And here in our old code. 02:44:30
We just. 02:44:32
Had it as all City Council. 02:44:33
So. 02:44:35
If we want to. 02:44:37
I don't know what we want to do there. We just have to. So C is just the appointment, so the mayor appoints. 02:44:39
And the mayor can be directed by the council to appoint. 02:44:45
So I just tried to stay consistent with the earlier code that if this is not working out for you. 02:44:48
You can tell the mayor we vote to appoint a. 02:44:54
City Manager. 02:44:57
Yeah, it doesn't. I don't think it conflicts with the previous. 02:44:58
Mention of the. 02:45:02
Mayor voting on the. 02:45:04
Manager. It just is the specification of. 02:45:05
Him appointing someone. 02:45:10
So if you go. 02:45:15
I think I just made. 02:45:17
Oh, in I. 02:45:19
Put I put in you don't have a provision regarding an interim city manager. 02:45:21
How you appoint? 02:45:27
And. 02:45:29
And the question? 02:45:32
Here is. 02:45:33
How do you want a boat? You want to vote majority vote? I didn't put that in there. 02:45:35
So, an interim city manager, Do you want to vote? 02:45:40
The same way as the city manager. 02:45:42
She's by majority. 02:45:45
Yeah, I think that's fine. Simple majority. So I'm going to add the vote language of a city manager. 02:45:47
It would essentially be the same process we did. 02:45:53
With you a couple weeks ago. 02:45:55
Right, sorry. So if we just go back, I just want to make sure this is clear. So one. 02:45:58
234. 02:46:03
So in section. 02:46:06
23. 02:46:07
So going back to like page what 5. 02:46:10
I don't have a page number, So what? 02:46:13
So 23. 02:46:15
Then you go down to the mayor. 02:46:17
In Section B, it says the mayor shall not vote except in the case of a tie, when he or she shall cast the deciding vote. 02:46:20
Or when the council is voting on whether to appoint or dismiss a municipal manager. 02:46:27
Correct. 02:46:31
So why don't we hear? 02:46:32
It's saying. 02:46:34
With the advice and consent of the Council rather than. 02:46:35
A vote. So I just want like usually advice, right? 02:46:38
Yeah. And so the mayor would vote on that. 02:46:43
But then here. 02:46:46
It's saying like the term of office. 02:46:48
The City Council. 02:46:50
City managers will serve at the pleasure of the Mayor and City Council and maybe removed at any time, with or without cause by 02:46:53
affirmative vote of. 02:46:56
And it just says a majority of the City Council. 02:47:00
Instead of the mayor participating in that vote pursuant to. 02:47:02
What we say earlier where the mayor does get to vote on appointing removal. So my recommendation I go back to that C and that's a 02:47:05
great catch is to say if adopting an ordinance removing from a reinstating the mayor. 02:47:12
That we add in there. 02:47:19
Language regarding the. 02:47:21
Interim city manager. I'll have to figure out where to put it because right now I'm. 02:47:23
On the fly here, but. 02:47:27
We would want to go back to the section. 02:47:29
Where the mayor has authority to vote and. 02:47:31
Grant the mayor that authority in that section, not in the section where we're talking about. 02:47:33
The mayor appointing. So in fact, that section may be superfluous because it's already covered. 02:47:39
This section we're talking about now. 02:47:46
So the mayor does get to vote. 02:47:49
Removal of a city manager. 02:47:51
Yes. And the mayor, that's what you were looking for, correct? 02:47:53
Yeah, and the mayor, what we're talking about is the interim city manager. 02:47:57
You want the mayor to vote? 02:48:02
Of the interim city manager. 02:48:03
And I'll put that it would be consistent, so I would. So what I'll do is I'll go back and put that in the language of. 02:48:06
What the mayor votes on, I'll make sure that. 02:48:12
If the mayor votes for the city manager, the mayor are the interim city manager. 02:48:14
So I'll add that in another section. 02:48:19
That makes sense. 02:48:21
And then this was removed. 02:48:22
This paragraph gets removed. Is that right? 02:48:23
No, I think you need. 02:48:28
Section in there. 02:48:29
How you appoint an interim city manager. 02:48:32
But we'll just. 02:48:34
Reference how the mayor will vote. 02:48:35
OK, so. 02:48:38
And then after that paragraph, it doesn't look like there's any. 02:48:40
Changes to current code until you get to 2.04101. 02:48:44
OK, OK. 02:48:49
I was told that. 02:48:54
By the mayor that these are not. 02:48:57
Offices that he. 02:49:00
Necessarily wants to keep. He would want the discretion. 02:49:01
And so. 02:49:05
The code says. 02:49:06
You can leave it in there because it says our employee in the mayor's office, it's an or. 02:49:09
I was. 02:49:14
Recommended Just take that out and let the mayor. 02:49:15
Have. 02:49:18
Whatever offices that he wishes if. 02:49:18
If he is. 02:49:21
Selected to be your administrator. 02:49:22
But I don't mind leaving it in. 02:49:25
There's a section. 02:49:28
It looks like above paragraph 8, it says the hiring process for department directors shall include panel interviews with the full 02:49:30
governing body and looks like that was removed. 02:49:34
I think I put that in another section that was more relevant. 02:49:39
And I think it had the section in the officers where I had put that and I don't know. So we did. 02:49:43
Touch on that previously, with the consent of the Council. 02:49:49
So I thought that was out of place. I thought it should be where the officers are. 02:49:53
And so I think I put it in the offices, but I'd have to go check. I didn't mean to take it out. 02:49:58
I don't think it's necessary anywhere. I mean, the mayor can choose the process of. 02:50:03
Sure, but if we're going to vote on it. 02:50:09
It's either going to be done in. 02:50:11
They're coming here and and we actually deliberate publicly on the individual where we hire them and get to know them or we do 02:50:14
what we did previously. 02:50:17
We hold a closed door session, we interview, we talk to them, we get to know them and then we come out and we share thoughts 02:50:20
publicly and then the public vote What? So I think it's important that we at least have in there that we do our. 02:50:26
Panel because if you're going to vote as a consent item, you should still get to know them, talk to them, interview them before 02:50:32
but but it being that it says can. 02:50:35
Consent of the body. Wouldn't we just tell him to get my consent? I'm gonna need an interview. 02:50:39
Isn't that implied? 02:50:46
I I didn't mean to take it. I don't mind leaving it. I didn't mean to take this section out. I thought I moved it to where the. 02:50:47
Officers were appointed that the hiring process for officers and department directors shall include panel interviews. The only 02:50:53
problem that binds you down. 02:50:58
So for example, in my situation, you needed a city attorney, you needed them now and you didn't do it panel interview. 02:51:03
And I recommended that you. 02:51:10
Put it out for a bid right and that would be the proper procedure. HR director made that recommendation too. 02:51:12
But in emergency situations, this mind you down, that may be why I didn't insert in the other section. Can we just have special 02:51:19
language that says you know what an emergency situation you can? 02:51:24
You could. 02:51:30
We reference that a couple weeks ago, but. 02:51:31
It was essentially allowing us to make a determination. 02:51:34
To continue the city operation. 02:51:37
While we were waiting to follow the formal process. 02:51:41
It's that agreement. I'll draft language that. 02:51:44
Says what? 02:51:47
I'm also remember. 02:51:49
That that in the event that there's a vacancy, the city. 02:51:52
Does not have to do panel interviews until. 02:51:56
There's there's a permanent. 02:52:00
Solution. 02:52:02
Our permanent vote. 02:52:03
Mayor making. 02:52:05
That's possible recommendation. 02:52:06
What if you were to just include language that stated something to the effect of? 02:52:08
The hiring of department directors. 02:52:12
Shall follow an agreed upon procedure. 02:52:15
I would just establish a. 02:52:19
Hiring process. 02:52:21
I would just say. 02:52:23
This process isn't needed for interim appointments. Agreed. 02:52:24
And then? 02:52:27
We can do interims on emergency base. That's the only time we need that emergency, I'd say. So are you suggesting you put that in 02:52:28
the city policies instead of in the ordinances? 02:52:32
Right. 02:52:37
I think it's I'm OK with that. Just asking what you recommended your recommendation is. 02:52:39
I would just add a sentence after that says interim. 02:52:46
Directors don't need to follow this process or. 02:52:49
Interims are exempt from. 02:52:52
Not at this requirement. 02:52:54
I didn't. 02:52:58
Yeah, that sounds good. So what would your recommend? 02:52:59
So keeping that sentence in that you said you wanted to. 02:53:03
Include. 02:53:06
And then just saying interim. 02:53:07
Interim Directors. 02:53:09
Where officers do not need to meet this requirement. 02:53:11
OK. So how are you exempt from this requirement? 02:53:15
Is there any limit to how long an interim officer can be served? 02:53:17
No, I don't think you want to be tied down because you probably need to. 02:53:22
Someone wants to appoint someone not popular, they appoint them as an interim and they stay that way. 02:53:27
The rest of the service council can remove. 02:53:31
We have the power with a vote. 02:53:33
Remove the interim. 02:53:35
You could go back. 02:53:37
To the section where you're reserving your powers. 02:53:39
And put in there that the City Council can vote to require the. 02:53:42
Mayor to appoint. 02:53:48
Somebody other than the interim, we could add that. 02:53:49
Yeah. So in other words. 02:53:53
You clarify that if. 02:53:55
Because the mayor has to appoint. 02:53:57
Right, correct. And so if the mayor refuses to appoint or just doesn't get around to it, you can have a City Council vote. And let 02:53:59
me say this will never come to the City Council vote. You'll tell the mayor we need somebody other than the interim or either make 02:54:03
the interim. 02:54:08
This vote to make the end from the. 02:54:12
Permanent. 02:54:14
But. 02:54:15
But you could reserve that power if that's what you would like me to do. 02:54:16
I think that's reasonable. 02:54:21
Yeah. 02:54:22
I mean it's. 02:54:24
Very unlikely we'll need it, but nonetheless. 02:54:25
That's what edge cases are, what we deal with so we can. 02:54:28
Do you want to come back with language on that? 02:54:31
I'll need to just see the language there. 02:54:34
I'll probably add it just to the current language where. 02:54:36
The City Council can vote. 02:54:41
To require. 02:54:43
Direct the mayor to appoint a city manager. 02:54:47
Or, uh. 02:54:50
An interim. 02:54:51
Our permanent. 02:54:54
Officer. 02:54:56
Our department head. 02:54:58
In other words, go back to 2040. 02:55:01
2 I would direct the mayor to appoint a city manager or a permanent. 02:55:03
Placement for. 02:55:11
An interim or. 02:55:13
Sorry. 02:55:16
Look, man, I said 8:00, I'm always going to make a motion to continue and I haven't done it because I feel like this is important 02:55:17
and we're trying to get through it. 02:55:21
But I recognize that our mental faculties are starting to slip. 02:55:26
My theory is is how do we phrase? 02:55:30
For example. 02:55:35
We need an interim. 02:55:37
And. 02:55:39
We're bringing someone in quickly. 02:55:42
Right, the panel interview is nice I guess, but. 02:55:44
For example, we did a closed door session. 02:55:47
We. 02:55:49
Topped interviewed a little bit as a. 02:55:51
Body. 02:55:53
Came back deliberated and open. 02:55:54
And voted. 02:55:56
Why? And I feel like that the council can suspend normal practicing higher. I feel like that fulfills the requirement. That's what 02:55:58
I'm saying though. 02:56:02
I don't even think we need additional language there, we can just keep this one in. 02:56:06
Pretty good with that. 02:56:10
Sorry, I didn't. 02:56:11
Just scratch all the last 10 minutes and. 02:56:12
Put this back in, I said. We're getting too crazy. OK, so let me just go through. 02:56:15
Filling the vac. 02:56:22
Really. 02:56:23
205010. 02:56:24
Follows Utah law. 02:56:27
You said 2. 02:56:28
Yeah. So I'm going quickly to tell you the significant changes that have been made. 02:56:30
OK. So after that the significant change. 02:56:34
That has been made. 02:56:38
There's some technical changes, for example the. 02:56:40
The city manager cannot hold a closed session with the City Council, but he can arrange a City Council a closed session. 02:56:44
On the I added the city attorney appointment because that's an office and you need to have. 02:56:54
The state code only says that he have a city attorney. He's over. 02:56:58
The city attorney, he or she would be over prosecution. 02:57:03
But most of the. 02:57:05
The cities that have. 02:57:07
You don't have to put this in, but most of the cities define what the duties of the city attorney are in 2.09. 02:57:08
And then? 02:57:15
Also I own 3.0 two. I'm not sure if you're doing Wednesday nights the second and fourth Wednesday or are you doing Tuesdays? 02:57:20
Tuesdays. 02:57:25
We voted at that last meeting. 02:57:29
Do we put that in code? 02:57:31
Yeah, it's already in the code. 02:57:34
It's already in the code. 02:57:35
And it says why be specific in here? Every time you got to go back to the code to adjust it, is it required? You're not required 02:57:36
to put it in the code, but why don't you just state we follow public? 02:57:41
Noticing. 02:57:49
The state noticing? Well, you're required to have. 02:57:50
Lucy is called the procedures of the City Council. You're required to have those. You can put that in the procedures as a City 02:57:53
Council and you're required to have a copy of those procedures at every City Council meeting in case the public asked for. 02:58:00
And so I don't know if you're complying with that law, but you're required to do that, but you could put that. 02:58:06
Section in the procedures. It doesn't. 02:58:12
Required to be in the code and I missed one other thing prior to that. 02:58:15
On the section before that. 02:58:19
There's exceptions. Employees are not eligible to appeal 2.10.020. 02:58:21
So it goes through the employees that are not. 02:58:32
Able to appeal and then I added language from the states code Who? 02:58:36
Employee who is discharged or voluntary. 02:58:41
Involuntary transferred to a position of less remuneration if the discharge of voluntary involuntary transfer is a result of a 02:58:43
layoff or reorganization. 02:58:48
That's found in state code, and I've referenced the state code there for you. So I'm just trying to be, I'm trying to balance, to 02:58:52
be consistent, what state code permits and you'll find out that I really adhere to state code. 02:58:59
And so. 02:59:05
Back to the time and place thing, you'll notice that. 02:59:08
Item B you know 302.01. 02:59:11
Then down to you have A&B below there B. This allows us to be able to. 02:59:15
Post our own calendar. 02:59:19
Why don't we just do A&B and take that first part out? 02:59:22
Sorry. 02:59:27
I feel like we skipped a bunch, yeah. 02:59:28
Oh, we skip these headings a little. 02:59:32
Did we skip to 9? 02:59:35
No, we we hit it. 02:59:37
City attorney appointment. So we we went through the attorney appointment. If you have questions, I'm happy to take it. You're not 02:59:40
required to have this in the code. 02:59:43
Yeah. 02:59:47
I don't. 02:59:48
See why we'd limit ourselves to a four year contract. 02:59:49
No, it's not a four year contract. 02:59:52
It's guilt and not more than 40. Like why would we say? 02:59:55
You can only work here for four years and then you're gone after four years. Like what if we like the city attorney and we want. 02:59:59
So I looked at other cities and other cities have this and I think the reason is the mayor comes in and says. 03:00:04
Are the new council comes in. 03:00:10
Will you stay here four years with us? And yeah, if you'll give me a four year term. 03:00:11
So that's why I think other codes have the four year term, you're right, but it does limit the Council. 03:00:15
But I don't know if you want to, but they can only serve for four years. 03:00:21
Pardon me. 03:00:24
That they they can be reappointed, removing the limiting language, because the Council can always come in and vote to remove the 03:00:25
position anyways. 03:00:28
There's a safeguard. I know I would limit ourselves for no reason. 03:00:32
OK. Mayor, quick question on that one. 03:00:35
It sounds as though we've. 03:00:37
We've been talking a lot about limits. 03:00:39
Or limitations on. 03:00:42
Terms. 03:00:44
Are we are we suggesting that? 03:00:45
That there would be a four year term for the for the city attorney and that if if the City Council decided that they did not like 03:00:48
that city attorney. 03:00:52
On year one that you would be on the hook to pace three years of their services. 03:00:57
No, I think that's what we're. 03:01:02
Removing is. We want to remove that limiting language that says. 03:01:03
Four year term. 03:01:07
Currently there is not a. 03:01:09
A term of the attorney, correct? 03:01:12
They they work at the similar to. 03:01:14
And at will. 03:01:17
And that's what I think we're advocating for now is removing the language. 03:01:18
From this draft. 03:01:22
Imperative. This is out of the Heber city code, so when I was looking at different codes I thought that they defined it well. 03:01:24
There's no requirement that the City Council. 03:01:30
Even hire a city attorney, much less to give a term. 03:01:33
But if you give a term at limits, you'd only four years. 03:01:36
And I think the reason for that is a practical mind. The next City Council decided at Heber. But we can take that limiting 03:01:40
language out. Would you like me to do that? Is that what the consensus is? 03:01:45
I would just say no turn. 03:01:51
Yeah, that just removed that language. 03:01:53
No terms at all, just. 03:01:55
No minimum, no maximum. 03:01:57
We just hire like any other. 03:01:58
On a SO I'll take out more than a four year term. 03:02:01
Correct. The rest of that sentence I'll take out. 03:02:05
Yeah, take out the rest of that sentence. 03:02:09
And so it starts, the City Council may at anytime change or add to the attorneys duties by majority of both the city shall have 03:02:12
the. 03:02:16
Either be it at will or. 03:02:20
Are exempt from the protections. 03:02:22
So we don't really need the exempt for the protections because that's only for a term. So I can take that out too. 03:02:24
But if you ever decide that you want to give a term agreement. 03:02:31
Then you'd have to put that language in. 03:02:35
So and then. 03:02:40
And I'm sorry, I did jump forward. 03:02:41
To 210020. 03:02:43
And the only thing I've added is #3 which is found in state code. 03:02:46
And I've cited the state code there for you if you'd like to look at. 03:02:51
Sounds good to me. 03:02:54
So, umm. 03:02:55
OK. And then we started on Section 3. 03:03:01
You said A&B, you think. 03:03:04
Satisfactory and then if we could possibly remove you can strike the whole thing. This is your code. 03:03:06
As it currently exists, we can just leave it the way it is, but if you're changing it to Tuesday night, we should correct that 03:03:12
which we did make that change, yeah, which is Tuesday night, but I think going back to the code every time is. 03:03:18
You know, are you going to remember? I think you just it's required to notice in the state. So why don't we just. 03:03:25
Well, option B allows us to. 03:03:31
Create our own calendar. 03:03:33
OK, do that. 03:03:34
So just take the first. 03:03:35
Paragraph out is what you're saying, Sure. 03:03:37
OK, I would just say that Council may. 03:03:42
Or the Council shall by resolution. 03:03:45
Establish the annual meeting schedule. I think it's important that we do that, and that might be a state. 03:03:50
Requirement to. 03:03:54
Establish the annual meeting scheduled, but we don't have to spell out that agree. 03:03:55
That's here and we can leave A&B so you want. 03:03:59
See in there. 03:04:02
That says that. 03:04:03
Oh sorry, I don't have C on mine. 03:04:05
No. 03:04:08
So do you want me to take A&B out and just put C in? 03:04:09
Now I think A&B belong there. I just think that we just established. 03:04:13
Just say the Council will establish a. 03:04:17
And publish at times, however you said that. 03:04:21
A regular annual annual. 03:04:25
Schedule. Yeah, yeah. 03:04:26
That's it. 03:04:29
What he said. 03:04:30
Go Team. 03:04:32
It's called the regular. 03:04:37
Annual. 03:04:39
City Council meeting calendar. 03:04:41
Sure. 03:04:43
Sorry, mind the proper terminology for the Annual Council meeting calendar. 03:04:46
What's it called that annual? 03:04:51
City Council schedule. 03:04:53
Yeah, that's the annual schedule. 03:04:55
OK. OK. The question I have just for Keller clarifications, do you want A and BN or just do you want to just? 03:04:58
I would leave them in. 03:05:06
OK. 03:05:07
Anybody else? 03:05:09
Yeah. 03:05:11
That's fine. If we accidentally cancel on a legal holiday, then OK. 03:05:17
Cancel it. 03:05:21
Or. 03:05:23
Yeah, we'll try to actually take out a just in case we do. I mean, if. 03:05:28
Some federal holiday gets added. 03:05:32
And it's mid year and we want to meet anyway on some. 03:05:34
Dumb holiday that the federal government decides to establish. 03:05:39
Randomly then. 03:05:42
Thank you. Cancel our meeting automatically. I couldn't have said that. 03:05:43
So B becomes A and. 03:05:49
Then B is the City Council by resolution shall pass a resolution. 03:05:50
I'll change the language and publish the annual City Council schedule. 03:05:56
Good, good. All right. So moving on just to a. 03:06:02
Looks like B changes. 03:06:07
Council member requests from 7 days to 48 hours. 03:06:10
That's right. 03:06:13
Yeah, OK. Jump ahead. 03:06:14
So the mayor recommended this. He just said, listen, if the council to the council members come to me and I can put it on the 03:06:16
agenda, I will. 03:06:20
And it's more responsive to. 03:06:24
It's a response of government instead of saying, oh, I'm sorry. 03:06:27
We're five days out, you can't put it on, he just said. 03:06:30
Get it to me at least 48 hours in advance. Sounds good and. 03:06:33
My understanding is if you got it to him in advance 25 hours ahead of time, he'd probably put it on for you. 03:06:37
So he's not trying to put limits on you, he's trying to make this open government so you can talk about issues that are important 03:06:43
to the City Council. 03:06:46
Paragraph requesting records. 03:06:51
Yeah, that was painful. 03:06:55
Glad we got rid of that. 03:06:56
Where it says council members may request records. 03:07:03
A member of the governing body. 03:07:06
May request records from city staff to aid in decision making, oversight and the performance of their official duties. Such 03:07:08
requests shall be directed to the Mayor. City Recorder. 03:07:13
Or city manager. 03:07:18
Yeah, can we? 03:07:21
Can we do an and? 03:07:22
Is that is that fine if we just? 03:07:24
I would. 03:07:27
I don't know. 03:07:28
People to just be like. 03:07:29
And or it'd be nice to all be on the same page for. OK, so I'm I'm a little confused. Are you a three-point 4.07? 03:07:30
Yes, OK. And so I don't have an A in there obviously. 03:07:38
So B becomes A. 03:07:42
Right. Oh, on my draft it shows an so. Yeah, OK. 03:07:44
And I'm sorry I have a different draft. 03:07:48
So does a say any member of the City Council we should make more than two significant requests must? 03:07:50
No, it doesn't. No, this is just a member of the governing body. 03:07:56
May request records from the city staff to aid in decision making oversight. 03:08:00
And the performance of their official duties. 03:08:04
Such request shall be directed to the. 03:08:06
Mayor, City Recorder. 03:08:09
Or city manager. 03:08:10
Yeah, I'm, I'm sorry, I don't have that draft. I gave my draft to Tony and then I grabbed something draft, so I apologize. And so 03:08:12
the request is to make that mayor and city recorder and city manager is that I think it's fine, Mayor, city recorder and city 03:08:17
manager. Some people just send the request to all three of them. 03:08:22
And that way they're all on the same page about what's being requested and can help, sure, but then you run into this. 03:08:27
Technicality, where if you don't send it to all three, it doesn't have to be abided by. 03:08:32
Because you're not meeting the code then. 03:08:37
Yeah. So I wouldn't do that, but I mean as a best practice. 03:08:39
Like I, I. 03:08:42
Sent an e-mail ICC, Eric and Tony on the e-mail. 03:08:44
That's fine. 03:08:48
I would delineate one person. 03:08:52
So it's this is the whatever you want. I don't think it matters, right? Because if the mayor is the head of the executive, right, 03:08:54
you send a request through the mayor. The mayor should go down through the staff and collect the data and bring it back to you. 03:09:00
But the same thing with the city recorder or the city manager. Remember, these changes go to the the. 03:09:05
Ability of this. 03:09:10
City council's to subpoena anybody to give them a document. 03:09:12
Other words the. 03:09:15
Code is really clear, you should have any document you want. 03:09:16
In fact, they've given you such powers you can subpoena somebody to bring a document. 03:09:19
But in your code, you have to comply with grandma, which is an anathema to open government. And so we're just taking the language 03:09:23
out of grandma here. 03:09:28
Correct and just saying you can make a request and by the way. 03:09:32
Crest request is cumbersome. The person that's fulfilling your request will meet with you and say this may take me a week. All 03:09:36
right. I mean I did a grammar request one time and said we have 12,000 emails and said that's not what I intended. 03:09:42
And so I work with the other government agency and we. 03:09:49
We refine the request on the phone. 03:09:53
So that I could get to what I was looking. 03:09:55
For SO just to make people feel good about this. 03:09:57
Assess from the state auditor's office was one of the things that he was going to come. He found out that I was Grammarly as a 03:10:01
council member. 03:10:04
He's gonna be like, that's not what happened. 03:10:08
I've never heard of that. Yeah, grandma doesn't even require. 03:10:09
Part that the city governing board so yeah I just want to make sure if anyone's feeling like crazy chapter of our city history 03:10:13
that we. 03:10:16
Don't want to? 03:10:20
Yeah, right. 03:10:21
So general provisions in 3-4 and also other rights established by ordinance or resolution. I just sorry it's a copy that you guys 03:10:23
have have a bunch of like. 03:10:27
On red line stuff in the middle so. 03:10:32
I've got the next part. Shows limitation on information requests. He cut out all of the previous verbiage about two significant 03:10:34
requests. 03:10:38
From a Councilman. 03:10:42
So then it specifies. 03:10:44
An undue burden on staff resources. Individual council members shall not submit more than two significant requests for information 03:10:47
at anyone time without the City Council's approval. 03:10:53
And then it goes on to specify a significant request is any request that requires staff time or resources exceeding 3 hours. 03:10:58
Or that involves compiling. 03:11:06
And then it cuts off data from multiple sources. 03:11:09
And, and I don't have a copy of enemy. Is that being taken out or is that being left being taken? That's what's being left in. 03:11:12
Yeah, there was, there was section. No, no, there's parts that are. 03:11:17
Taken out, and there's parts of that paragraph that are taken out. 03:11:22
And then that's what's. 03:11:25
Remaining. That's the reverb. 03:11:26
So I think we should remove that entire paragraph. Limitations on information request. That whole thing should go away. 03:11:28
Yeah, I mean, I understand that. 03:11:36
There might be a lot for staff, but if a if a governing board member is asking for a document and and and, they so fill. 03:11:39
I mean, that's clearly is. 03:11:46
We said somewhere else that the request is onerous or whatever they would, they would come back and we would come back and talk to 03:11:49
him if warden. 03:11:52
What, 5 hours or 10 hours? Whatever was going to be, I forget what it was. Well, this specifies 3. 03:11:54
Three hours. There's other places. 03:11:59
There's another place in here to specify the different length of time. 03:12:01
Well, so again, I don't want to put limitations on the council if you need documents, but I think the council has to be 03:12:04
reasonable. When you ask somebody for documents, they come back and say I found 12,000 emails and the council member has worked 03:12:09
with the city. 03:12:14
Employee to say. 03:12:19
That's not what I was looking for. And then narrow it down. I mean, this is a reasonable process, so I don't know if you need to 03:12:20
have that in the code. It's on the next page. 03:12:25
B. In the middle of that page is the mayor, city recorder, city manager, or their designee may request clarification or 03:12:30
modification of any request deemed overly broad, unclear, or excessively burdensome. 03:12:36
And may propose an alternative approach to satisfy the information need in a less resource intensive manner. 03:12:42
I think that that captures what you're talking about. I think, yeah, that that does, Mayor. 03:12:48
Quick question, yes, just as a matter of administrating. 03:12:52
The work of a city. 03:12:56
If one of your fellow council members were to ask. 03:12:59
Staff to. 03:13:03
Do work that was going to take them, say 80 hours. 03:13:05
And you have an expectation that your staff is efficient and good at what they're doing and completing all the other assignments 03:13:09
that you've given them. 03:13:12
The general premise to this? 03:13:17
To that language is that. 03:13:19
If there is an exorbitantly large request made of staff, that's going to take a phenomenal amount of time. 03:13:21
That it would come back to you as a council and you could say, hey, this is a priority to us for. 03:13:28
That is actually not a priority of this Council we want them working on. 03:13:33
There are other assignments. 03:13:38
It just gives it a. 03:13:39
Opportunity to come back to council for a decision to say. 03:13:41
Yes, priority, go ahead and spend 25 hours working on that. 03:13:44
Or, uh. 03:13:48
Let's let's pare it down or let's do something different. See, I think the, I think that that's. 03:13:49
I think that's the intent of this paragraph B. 03:13:53
That you would come back and on the next page. 03:13:56
On the backside of that page. 03:13:59
Yeah. But I guess what the point is now that maybe Eric's bringing up is that if you don't actually specify where that threshold 03:14:02
is. 03:14:05
Then everything becomes. 03:14:09
So what's overly broad, or what's unclear or excessively correct, it just becomes an argument. 03:14:11
Can I ask for? 03:14:17
For maybe context or clarification. 03:14:18
Because I'm thinking about this like if I'm making a request for records, it's so that I can just have information to make an 03:14:22
educated. 03:14:26
Or an informed decision. And it shouldn't take more than maybe an hour to give me a. 03:14:30
Document or go pull it up on your computer and e-mail me. 03:14:34
When? 03:14:37
I mean, how often or frequent is it that it takes? 03:14:38
More than three hours of staff labor to actually provide information like that. 03:14:42
We we have most certainly in the last couple years anyway. 03:14:47
Had a few requests. 03:14:50
That would have taken. 03:14:52
Hundreds of hours to complete. 03:14:54
So just gathering communications between. 03:14:57
All. 03:15:00
Between all staff. 03:15:02
For the last. 03:15:04
Number of years. 03:15:05
Would take. 03:15:07
Hundreds and hundreds of hours and so. 03:15:08
A request like that would be a prime example that could. 03:15:10
Come back to the Council and if the Council wanted all that information. 03:15:13
Great, Let's let's. 03:15:16
Redirect all of. 03:15:18
Of staff time towards gathering that but if that is a. 03:15:20
An overly burdensome request. 03:15:24
It would be an easy thing for the council to say. 03:15:26
Let's tighten that request up. 03:15:29
What is it we're looking for? What would you like to find exactly? 03:15:31
And let's target that request, OK? 03:15:34
That sounds a lot like a grammar request. 03:15:37
Doesn't it? Like we're making a request and you're limiting it? 03:15:39
You are, you are absolutely right that if you're looking as a council member, if you're looking for. 03:15:43
A document, a contract, specific information, some sort of? 03:15:48
Information that the city gathers and has readily available. 03:15:52
Financial information, for example. 03:15:56
Elected officials. 03:15:59
Can request any of that as a duly elected official. 03:16:01
You have unfettered access to that. The challenge? 03:16:05
That we've encountered in the past is when those requests come. 03:16:08
With the stipulation that we share them with the public and then they then it has to go through a redaction process and the 03:16:12
redaction process is what? 03:16:15
Really encumbers the request for data. 03:16:20
Yeah, and I don't have my copy. 03:16:22
It's just city request. I understand that, but he's explaining. I said that the whole the process they want to follow sounds like 03:16:26
the same process you would follow if it were a grandma requested and the limitations seem to be the same. 03:16:33
As he describes it, because he doesn't want to have a burdensome request and also. 03:16:40
When the when the when the information comes back and they don't want to give that information in total. 03:16:45
To the counselor, they want to redact it first. 03:16:50
Again and that's that's the issue to redact information that's going to council. 03:16:54
At no point is there really. 03:16:58
Anything that I could think of that would need to be redacted, that's going directly to a council member and not anywhere else. 03:17:00
And again, I've mentioned this earlier that if a council member wants a document. 03:17:06
They could get a copy of it, but I would like that document. You know best policies as to when you're through with the document, 03:17:11
return it back. 03:17:15
To the person who. 03:17:18
Produce it to you and have that person destroy it. So a protected document is not in the public domain. So I guess the issue is 03:17:20
that one one or two points in the our past year. 03:17:26
I mean I was helping. 03:17:32
Councilman Holdaway. 03:17:33
When you first started out here and I wasn't elected yet. 03:17:34
To get some information and the process that grandma process has go through, they would not grant it to us. 03:17:39
Because they were afraid he would share it with the public. 03:17:46
And again, I understand I'm subject to grandma under Utah law. I understand. But they made him subject to it. They made him apply. 03:17:50
So when Eric says that you're. 03:17:56
The counts, everything's open to the council. It is, but only through grandma. And then they can say it's protected because you 03:17:59
you have to comply with grandma and under grandma they can't give a. 03:18:03
Member of the public a protected document, but under our new code. 03:18:09
Under your new code. 03:18:12
A member of the governing body can request the document. The public has to go through grandma. So in your situation where you are 03:18:14
not elected official, No, I helped him. 03:18:18
He has, he made the request and they and they required him to make a grammar request for the information he wanted. Yeah, which 03:18:24
that has changed. But what I'm saying is once he does the grammar request, if you're helping him, he can't share it with you as if 03:18:28
it's protected another section of the law. 03:18:33
Provides that. 03:18:38
Nobody can. 03:18:40
Release. No individual can release. 03:18:41
Information that is confidential are protected. 03:18:44
And that happened in Orem. There was a. 03:18:46
To get back on track. 03:18:49
Yeah, paragraph B here. 03:18:51
The mayor, city recorder, city manager or their designee may request clarification or modification of any requests deemed overly 03:18:53
broad. 03:18:56
Can we just make? 03:19:00
Some verbiage in there that maybe says like. 03:19:01
The mayor can make that determination if it needs to come back to council for the vote. 03:19:03
I wouldn't say mayor, I'd say governing body. 03:19:07
Well, no, no, no. I'm saying like if we if we submit a request for information. 03:19:10
Who makes that determination to keep it as? 03:19:14
Narrowed in scope as focus. 03:19:17
So an issue with the staff or the manager, the city recorder, they can send it back to the mayor and say, hey, look, this is going 03:19:19
to be. 03:19:22
Excessive. 03:19:25
Take it to the Council for a vote. 03:19:27
And then that way it's just funneled through the mayor. We good with that. 03:19:29
I'm OK with that. 03:19:32
Yeah, or manager, if we sure delegate that to the manager over that admit because that's really what we're trying to prevent is 03:19:33
the administrators saying. 03:19:36
Hey, we need you to do this and then. 03:19:40
Their time is, but I also want to limit the scope in in such a way where it's not. 03:19:42
Any of the. 03:19:47
People could say that that was. 03:19:49
Excessive or undue, I want to narrow it, and I like narrowing it to either. 03:19:51
The manager or the mayor? Because that's where we're vesting power. 03:19:54
I like the idea in many ways. 03:19:58
The only thing I'm concerned about is in the case you know. 03:19:59
Two years ago, the case there was that. 03:20:03
Jake was a minority member. 03:20:05
Council and the mayor. 03:20:06
And there is the council would didn't want to have access to it, so they wouldn't grant. 03:20:08
That to him. 03:20:12
That's one thing I was going to talk to you, Ezra, because I know. 03:20:13
You might not agree with all this. 03:20:16
Maybe might be the minority, but like. 03:20:17
I just want to make sure you feel comfortable with it because I know how. 03:20:20
Violating that was for me. 03:20:23
You know, so if you're good with it, you're good with it. But like, yeah, I mean, I think, I think we can the respect for your 03:20:25
office, you know? 03:20:29
Like yeah, I'm I'm fine with. 03:20:32
Like if I if I disagree or if anyone of us disagree with the. 03:20:35
Direction that the body is going either with. 03:20:39
The city manager or how the city is being administered. 03:20:42
You just have to be comfortable with that until. 03:20:45
You know you want to. 03:20:47
That, The thing is, is the best practices is that. 03:20:48
We shouldn't rely on trust, right? Like Ezra. 03:20:52
I can. 03:20:55
We investigate each of us just that's what accountability is, right? And so. 03:20:56
And remember, we don't want to block them from. 03:21:01
You know, documents. So you're the City Council and if you're going to put limitations, those are the limitations you have to live 03:21:05
with. But remember, you can Trump. 03:21:09
If the mayor said you can't have the document, you can compel somebody to show up. 03:21:13
Which is correct, a procedure you probably don't want to do. So it makes no sense to give the mayor the final say when in fact you 03:21:18
have the final say as the City Council. I like that, so I wouldn't put. 03:21:23
Limiting language in there. 03:21:28
I think the language is you have to work with the city, so it's not excessive. I think Eric makes a good point they've had. 03:21:30
Requests that are. 03:21:37
Hundred 200 hours, that's unreasonable. I stopped at 7110. I'm like. 03:21:38
That's enough. 03:21:43
Yeah, no, to me, that's because I read the language and they were like after three. And I remember telling her I'm like. 03:21:44
Three hours. I've done 70. 03:21:51
I'll wait for the other side to do 70 and we'll continue. 03:21:53
OK, refocusing. Moving on. 03:21:57
Are we good with that? 03:21:59
Knowing that it can be. 03:22:00
Put on a council vote. 03:22:02
So we're striking all this that's not stricken. 03:22:05
In that previous paragraph, just so because I think we have the correct copies there. So we were, we were essentially striking out 03:22:08
the three hours and we were striking out the undue burden on staff resources in the limitations. 03:22:14
On information request paragraph. 03:22:20
And then we're leaving in. 03:22:22
Where it has section B. 03:22:24
Where it specified the mayor, city recorder, city manager or designee. 03:22:25
May request clarification or modification of any request deemed overly broad. 03:22:29
Unclear or excessively burdensome and may propose an alternative approach to satisfy the information need in a less resourceive. 03:22:33
Intense manner, less resource, intense manner. 03:22:42
Are we not having the excessively burdensome like as determined by the? 03:22:44
Well, that's what it is. It's the mayor, city recorder, city manager. 03:22:48
May request clarification or modification. 03:22:51
Of any request deemed overly broad and again is when I. 03:22:54
Submitted a grammar Crest to ASD. 03:23:00
They came back and said we have 18,000 emails and I said that's not what I intended so we worked. 03:23:02
Yeah, in other words. 03:23:08
Right. We narrowed it down and I think I got. 03:23:10
100 emails. Are we good with that as a policy? I live with that. 03:23:12
Great. Just leave that as is. Yes, OK. 03:23:16
Staff shall respond to information requests in paragraph C. 03:23:19
It says within 5 days. 03:23:23
And then it removes with grandma. 03:23:26
So I'm assuming that this is just. 03:23:28
As a policy if we request information as a city. 03:23:30
Council or as a council member. 03:23:33
You get a response within five days. Is that? 03:23:35
Right, but the response could be this is burdensome. 03:23:37
Just so you know. 03:23:40
OK, it could be the response the typos is 505. 03:23:41
Ten. Oh, I'm sorry. 03:23:45
Well, yeah, it's written out five and then it has in ( 510. Just making sure. 03:23:49
Well, that's the period of time that. 03:23:55
Utah hasn't BYU in basketball, but anyway. 03:23:57
Just kidding, watching a game. Any any concerns in that paragraph? 03:24:01
I'm good with that. Is that a bad joke? 03:24:05
That's OK, that's good by me, right? 03:24:07
Can we can we jump forward to paragraph E is C? 03:24:10
Referencing. 03:24:16
Requests from. 03:24:17
The governing body. 03:24:19
Yes, that's what I clarified because. 03:24:20
Everybody, it's just the governing body. 03:24:22
Well, I mean I would assume it applies to any information request. 03:24:25
Whether it we're taking out the language that specifies with grammar. 03:24:29
But then. 03:24:33
What's dictating grandma would just be grandma law. 03:24:34
So this would grandma requests are still treated. 03:24:38
As grammar requests are always treated, yes, you're correct. So that's what I'm. That's what I clarified with with Mr. Riddle a 03:24:41
moment ago, was that this is specifically. 03:24:45
Applying to our request, the governing body, right? 03:24:51
And I can clarify that in the early part, but it adds in the same section where the governing body makes the request. The question 03:24:53
I have for the city manager is five days. Is that too quickly? You can advise the council it has exceptional. 03:25:00
Or language that provides the exception when needed so I'm OK. I would be happy with artists. 03:25:07
And again, I'm just drafting what you guys tell me and. 03:25:13
And this is a collaborative effort, so. 03:25:17
I'm near the end of mine. I don't know what you have on your. I've got another 5 pages. 03:25:27
So D just changes language it removes. 03:25:32
As deemed appropriate by the city recorder city manager staff to as deemed appropriate by a member of the governing body making 03:25:35
the request. So if you. 03:25:39
Elect to make a request for information. You get to determine the format that it's returned to you in, correct? 03:25:43
Right. I think the pushback I got on the parameters for the City Council staff interaction was that everybody who has a job feels 03:25:48
undue pressure and influence. So what does that mean? It seems so vague that how do you say, well, I feel we're skipping ahead. I 03:25:55
was on paragraph DI, just went to the next paragraph. 03:26:01
I can read this. Responses to information requests may be provided in written, oral or electronic format. 03:26:10
As deemed appropriate. 03:26:17
By the member of the governing body making the request. 03:26:19
Taking into consideration the request scope. 03:26:22
And the most effective means of communication. 03:26:25
I think that that's. 03:26:28
Pretty standard, shouldn't be any complaint there. 03:26:30
Why would they want it in a format? 03:26:35
Other than what? 03:26:38
The city wants to provide. 03:26:39
Well, it specifies, right? 03:26:42
May be provided in written, oral or electronic format. OK, maybe. And then you just choose. 03:26:43
Like if I'm sending an e-mail to the city staff and I'm asking for information, I probably just want an e-mail back, yeah. 03:26:49
Right. So I don't think that needs to be more complicated than that. So when I did a grandma with ASD, they said. 03:26:55
Will give you. 03:27:01
The access to a Google Drive with those documents. 03:27:02
And that was. 03:27:05
They fulfilled their request and it was easy for us because we didn't want to. 03:27:06
Them to print the documents out so I think. 03:27:10
This is just saying. 03:27:12
It could be in any format that the city wants to do, but it should be convenient to the governing member of the governing body. 03:27:14
OK, the next paragraph is adherence to records laws. 03:27:20
The governing body member making the request shall be notified. 03:27:25
When a request may include records. 03:27:28
That are private, protected or controlled information and the records may only be released. 03:27:31
In consultation with the city Attorney. 03:27:37
I have a problem with that. 03:27:41
So this is not job security. 03:27:42
Just so you know, that's already in there. 03:27:45
What this is is my advice would be probably. 03:27:48
Do you need, do you need a copy of the record or can you sit in the conference room and look at the record? 03:27:51
And if you can get the information in the conference room, don't make a copy if they notify you. 03:27:56
That, uh. 03:28:01
There are some protections in this document. 03:28:02
There's some sensitive information in the document. 03:28:05
My advice is not to make a copy unless you need it, and if you do make a copy is to return it to the person to. 03:28:07
Who gave it to you and have them destroy it? Well then my go ahead. 03:28:13
And it says only be released. What I that's my concern. 03:28:17
Without getting into too much. 03:28:20
I think it's important with. 03:28:26
When I consulted with the Attorney General's office that the attorney. 03:28:28
Does not have the ability. 03:28:32
Of a threat. 03:28:34
To block a governing board member because they feel. 03:28:36
That he could. 03:28:40
Share it. That's how they. 03:28:41
OK. Does that make sense? That's how they blocked you? Yeah. 03:28:43
They just said, hey, we feel and I was like, no, and it's just only in confidence. They also, but I don't have any authority to 03:28:46
stop you from seeing a record. In fact, I'm a pretty big advocate that you should have every record right but that subpoena the 03:28:51
record right, but. 03:28:55
I don't want to talk about. 03:29:01
Things but like. 03:29:02
That you. 03:29:03
So I don't understand why an attorney would ever say that you can't see the right. It was out of threat. They said you. 03:29:05
We think you would. 03:29:12
Right. Well, you know, can we proceed with the code? Sorry, what I'm saying is I want language. I think it would be wise to add 03:29:14
some. I don't know, I don't think anything needs to be consultation weak enough or it's here the attorney has no. 03:29:20
Power to stop. And this doesn't give only power. 03:29:28
OK. Yeah. Just looking for ways of like. 03:29:31
That's how they were able to do it. No, that's we removed the paragraph of annual review of information requests. 03:29:34
Essentially, if you guys don't have it on your copy. 03:29:42
What it says is that every year the city recorder will compile an annual report summarizing the nature and scope of significant 03:29:44
information requests received. 03:29:48
Resources that were required to fulfill the requests and any issues encountered, and then the report will be presented to the City 03:29:52
Council. That's being removed. We don't. Yeah, we can still request that if we wanted it. 03:29:56
I'm here instead record loss I want to read. 03:30:01
Remove the word only. 03:30:04
The records may be released. 03:30:05
In consultation with City Attorney. 03:30:07
I mean, if it's only if the city attorney is not available for some reason. 03:30:09
You're, you're, you're. I can take that out. 03:30:13
Yeah, just that one. 03:30:15
Just remove only. I get the idea. We want to. We want to consult with you and that's fine. We should. 03:30:16
OK. And as far as the paragraph you're reading right now? 03:30:21
I was just saying. 03:30:25
The issue. 03:30:26
That with the pushback was that if the city manager thinks that you're being excessive, he's going to tell you throughout the 03:30:27
year. He's not going to wait till the end of the year to tell, right? Understood. And this is another report that you don't have 03:30:33
to have your administrator do Tonys have the next paragraph removed is respect for city resources. It is. 03:30:38
Similar to the previous paragraph. 03:30:44
But ensures the availability of city resources for core municipal priorities or services. The City Recorder city manager may 03:30:46
prioritize requests based on urgency, legal requirements and resource availability. 03:30:51
Requests that relates to upcoming business of the City Council or that have strong support from the community, stakeholders or key 03:30:57
decision makers may be given priority. 03:31:00
Due to the broader interest. 03:31:04
Our broader interest or impact and that's been removed. So it's just an even playing field across the board. And the issue there 03:31:06
was that you're giving your power away to get a document because they can say, Oh well, the community has a higher priorities than 03:31:10
what you're asking. 03:31:14
I appreciate that removal council members didn't want to have a. 03:31:19
Handcuffed photo, Yeah. 03:31:23
And again, I think your city manager is the type of manager it would tell you if something's excessive or there's too many 03:31:24
requests being made. 03:31:28
And that's what a city manager, our administrator, will do, is to counsel with the. 03:31:32
The city? The City Council. 03:31:38
OK. And then the next section is 3.04 point. 03:31:40
080. 03:31:44
It's the parameters for council staff interactions. This largely. 03:31:46
It follows the current city code. 03:31:53
And has just changed. 03:31:55
Some wording for example. 03:31:57
It previously read. Council members shall interact with city staff through established protocols by directing inquiries and 03:32:00
requests for action to the. 03:32:03
City Manager and this added. 03:32:07
The mayor or city manager? 03:32:09
So I don't think that's a very. 03:32:12
Controversial change there. 03:32:16
Then there's no change until you get to. 03:32:18
Section B Limitations on directives to staff. 03:32:20
And again, that looks like it's just a point of clarity. 03:32:24
It reads council members shall refrain from giving direct orders to individual staff members. 03:32:28
Except as provided by ordinance, resolution or law. 03:32:33
In the scope of their official capacity, so it's. 03:32:36
Saying that we need to vote. 03:32:39
To give. 03:32:41
Staff. 03:32:42
And I think that we've all kind of. 03:32:44
Are understanding that. 03:32:46
And then it adds the mayor where? 03:32:49
It mentions city manager, so it just says operational tasks and directives should be communicated through the mayor or city 03:32:51
manager. 03:32:54
And then I have no change until. 03:32:59
The previous section C is removed. 03:33:03
This last one. 03:33:06
That's the protection for undue influence. 03:33:08
Why would we get rid of this? 03:33:11
It's just my question. 03:33:13
I think the feedback I got was that what is undue influence and pressure. 03:33:15
To perform their duties. 03:33:20
I feel pressure to perform my duties. 03:33:23
I'm not sure it's undue influence, but I could make the allegation that you're making me stay here really late tonight. Or is it 03:33:25
my fault? 03:33:28
Right. So I guess it's just elusive. 03:33:32
That's the feedback I got. 03:33:34
I don't mind, I'll do whatever you want. If you want to keep it in, let me read it real quick. Protections from undue influence. 03:33:36
Just so. 03:33:39
Everybody can hear and know we're debating. 03:33:42
The city staff shall be protected from. 03:33:45
Undue pressure or influence in the performance of their duties. 03:33:47
Any attempts by council members to coerce or unduly influence staff decisions or actions that contravene professional standards. 03:33:51
City policies or ethical guidelines will be subject to review. 03:33:59
And possible action by the City Council or appropriate oversight body. 03:34:02
The city manager shall establish A confidential process to staff. 03:34:06
To report concerns about inappropriate interactions or directives from council members, ensuring these concerns can be addressed 03:34:11
without fear. 03:34:14
Of retaliation. 03:34:18
So let me let me say this. There's a defect in here already. It says that the. 03:34:20
It will be subject to review by possible action by the City Council or appropriate oversight body. 03:34:26
The only oversight body in this city is the City Council. There's no other body that can be established. It's an elder City 03:34:31
Council. What to do with the mayor? You're the governing body, so this is absolutely contrary to Utah code. You are the body it 03:34:36
creates. 03:34:41
The existence of this paragraph. 03:34:46
Creates a conundrum. 03:34:50
Because. 03:34:54
You're saying that the Council is applying undue influence, subject to the review of the Council. 03:34:55
Or the oversight. 03:35:02
Entity. If it needed something else, it could go to the state ethics board. 03:35:03
Councilmember Well, and that was represented multiple times. 03:35:08
And so this. 03:35:12
This is being deleted so that that wouldn't be an. 03:35:13
An option available to. 03:35:16
Whoever the staff was, that felt like they were. 03:35:18
Receiving that. 03:35:21
Undue influence, which is pretty clearly. 03:35:22
Stipulated as to what that. 03:35:24
Entails. 03:35:26
It's not just. 03:35:27
I feel like. 03:35:28
You know, a lot of pressure to show up at work first thing in the morning. It's. 03:35:29
Contrary to professional. 03:35:34
Duties. 03:35:36
And ethical obligations, it's, it's quite clearly stated in there as to what would breed what, what a breach would look like. 03:35:37
And so if that is taking place, it makes perfect sense that there would be. 03:35:45
Some ability to. 03:35:49
Have recourse in that situation. 03:35:51
So let me let me ask you a question. But this does articulate what the professional standards are really quick. 03:35:53
Are you asking what the professional standards are? Yeah. So ABA standards for an attorney? 03:35:59
If we're going to do the engineering site. 03:36:04
In other words, I want to say the professional standard as set out in. 03:36:07
Either the city. All I'm saying is let's clarify this if you want to keep it. 03:36:10
You could you could find clarifying the professional association. 03:36:15
Ethics for. 03:36:19
Whatever the. 03:36:21
Whatever it is, the office is within the city because. 03:36:22
City managers have a have an association with with an ethics. 03:36:26
Guideline. 03:36:29
Engineers have that. 03:36:31
Planners have that. 03:36:32
They all have associations with. 03:36:34
Professional standards. 03:36:35
And ethics. But which one has jurisdiction over the City Council? 03:36:37
It wouldn't necessarily need to have jurisdiction over its. 03:36:42
As I read that it's. 03:36:46
If they're being asked to do something. 03:36:47
And and let's say they say. 03:36:50
Let's say our engineer is asked to. 03:36:52
Bend a rule. 03:36:55
Related to. 03:36:56
Professional standards of engineering. 03:36:58
And the engineer says I can't do that. That would be. 03:37:01
Bending my. 03:37:04
My my own rules. 03:37:05
And that councilmember said you do that. 03:37:07
Or there will be repercussions? 03:37:11
But they would just go to and then they feel undue. 03:37:13
Pressure to do that thing that was ethically opposed to what they've. 03:37:16
What they But they would just go to the state ethics board. 03:37:19
But that's exactly what this is opening the door to do. We are deleting. 03:37:22
That that option recourse, the state ethic. 03:37:26
OK, then just put in a line. 03:37:30
The staff have the ability to go to the state ethics for this by the state, but this council, if it's a single council member 03:37:32
that's asking. 03:37:36
For someone to do that, we've already said a single council member can't direct. 03:37:40
Staff member. 03:37:45
That all requests must go through. 03:37:46
The mayor or city manager, and even that isn't innocent is my question. 03:37:48
No, I just think it needs to be clarified. If it's kept in. I'm happy to clarify what boards or what professional standards, but. 03:37:53
I don't see why I would remove. I like. 03:37:59
Staff knowing that they have this route. 03:38:02
To avoid undue influence, I I don't think they're. 03:38:04
Should be any issue with that? 03:38:07
Give us an example. I'd put it in the city handbook. 03:38:09
Even if it hasn't, I think this is great practice to not have it. 03:38:13
I apologize. 03:38:19
You know, uh. 03:38:20
Everybody has an opinion. 03:38:22
Yeah, like. 03:38:24
I can't believe how mismanaged this has been over 2 years. 03:38:25
Without going into. 03:38:31
Everything. 03:38:33
This is used to manipulate. 03:38:35
A way for? 03:38:38
Staff. 03:38:40
Which I've never. 03:38:42
Met because I because of everything that's happened, I've always had. 03:38:43
A witness from the beginning. 03:38:49
Now if staff. 03:38:52
Feel like. 03:38:54
Talking to them is undue influence, especially like. 03:38:55
And I think this is really important. 03:38:59
Are the old mayor had a way? 03:39:02
And the personality of engaging with staff and the way they wanted it, and that council had that personality and culture. 03:39:05
That culture. 03:39:12
Is not. 03:39:14
The current. 03:39:15
Or mayor. 03:39:17
So the mayor has assigned. 03:39:18
Parking. 03:39:20
Or. 03:39:22
Heritage. 03:39:23
Or the budget? 03:39:24
With different staff members, and that's OK because the mayor can. 03:39:26
Can go and gather data and. 03:39:30
Gather information, obviously, I think the entire council recognizes that. 03:39:33
In order to do anything, it would have to come back to a boat. 03:39:38
But gathering information or meeting with staff or saying hey. 03:39:41
This is the direction that that is a. 03:39:45
Completely appropriate. 03:39:47
And I know in the previous council. 03:39:49
They might not like that or, you know, in the previous mayor might not like that. 03:39:51
But putting in something like this that. 03:39:56
Jacob or Councilman Wood met with them or or something that. 03:39:59
That's just the culture that a council can have. 03:40:03
And if and if they so feel. 03:40:07
Like the state has a. 03:40:10
State Ethics. 03:40:13
Board, that is what that is for. 03:40:14
But like. 03:40:18
To to galvanized or weaponize or put something in place where it's like I feel pressure. 03:40:19
I feel pressure from my boss all the time too. Well last night. 03:40:25
I feel pressure. 03:40:31
Let me read the language again, because I don't think there's anything preventing what you're talking about in this. 03:40:32
In this language. 03:40:37
It just says. 03:40:38
To coerce or undo. 03:40:40
Duly influenced staff decisions or actions that contravene professional standards. 03:40:42
City policies. 03:40:47
Or ethical guidelines. 03:40:48
There's nothing about meeting with staff being prohibited in that. 03:40:50
Or I mean this is literally only for interactions that. 03:40:53
Right. Unduly influenced. 03:40:57
All that contravene professionals. I want staff to feel comfortable if I'm telling staff to do something. 03:40:59
That I don't know, like I'm not an expert on on everything. 03:41:04
Especially with engineering for example. 03:41:09
And. 03:41:11
I feel it's a good idea to do something that. 03:41:12
Isn't in line with those professional standards. 03:41:16
I don't want staff to have any hesitation to say. 03:41:19
Just so you know. 03:41:23
This is not. 03:41:24
Professional standards. I won't be. I won't be doing this. 03:41:25
Like I want that pushback to be welcome and for staff to have a process. 03:41:28
Outside of just some. 03:41:32
State agency that. 03:41:34
May or may not respond to a request. Let me have. I want to be responsive to that. Let me ask this, Jesse or Mr. Riddle, if we 03:41:35
remove this. 03:41:39
Paragraph. 03:41:43
Does that prevent staff from having the ability to tell us? 03:41:45
Something is a. 03:41:48
Ethical violation or doesn't fit their best practice. I'm trying to find out what this before I think I can I can delineate what 03:41:49
it was before it was couldn't someone just go to HR and yeah, it was file a complaint. Yeah. And why wouldn't we have this just 03:41:55
enumerated in the employee handbook? 03:42:01
Yeah, right. Like they should know what their course of action is all the same. So they're. 03:42:07
Couple issues. The first sentence is too vague. 03:42:11
So last night I received a call at. 03:42:14
9:00 from council members. 03:42:16
Making changes to the code, is that undo? 03:42:18
Pressure. 03:42:20
I was. I just taken my Ambien, so I don't remember what I said, what you said, right. 03:42:22
But I guess what I'm saying. 03:42:26
You have to understand. 03:42:28
My perception of undue pressure is different than what you may have. And so it's just, it's just too vague. It's not enforceable. 03:42:29
The other issue is the city manager should not establish the confidential procedures that should be established by the City 03:42:37
Council. You're the policy making body, so if you're keeping it in. 03:42:42
I'm happy to massage it for you, but I think. 03:42:47
First sentence needs to come out because it's just too vague and unenforceable. 03:42:50
So late night call to a city employee. 03:42:54
Asking a question. 03:42:57
They may feel it's undue pressure, so could they ask then? This feels like something I would read an HR handbook. I think that's 03:42:59
kind of where it belongs. It's too subjective. So anyway, I'm happy to take it out. I'm happy to massage it. 03:43:05
I prefer massaging it, I mean. 03:43:12
I think taking it out is a. 03:43:15
Pretty scary signal of. 03:43:18
How about moving? 03:43:20
Getting rid of this. So instead of taking it out, we're moving it to put into employer. 03:43:22
Dealt with in the HR handbook. I mean nobody, nobody wants to break the law, but like. 03:43:27
I want to walk through. 03:43:31
And nothing the state does supersedes, Yeah, I want to walk through that if anything, if anything happens there. 03:43:32
It would go to the state or a law enforcement or HR. 03:43:38
It wouldn't go to a city manager like has been done before in the past. 03:43:41
Because he's not the boss. The governing board is the boss. 03:43:46
And that's the problem. 03:43:50
Is like. 03:43:51
I mean, it's been ridiculous, some of the things it's like. 03:43:53
Guys were your boss. 03:43:56
And it's an at will situation here at the city. I know that sounds mean. 03:43:57
If you don't like working for that particular boss. 03:44:02
Like it? You know you can't set up this. 03:44:06
Secret. 03:44:09
You know, go to the HR person. 03:44:10
They'll, they'll report it to the law. You know, law enforcement there is. 03:44:13
Things that are there. 03:44:17
But or go to the state ethics. 03:44:19
Attorney General. 03:44:21
Or I mean, let's say that go to the state attorney general, like let's have them go to. 03:44:24
The state auditor's office go to the Ethics Commission, like all these government bodies that are set up to have oversight over 03:44:28
us. 03:44:32
Fantastic. 03:44:36
Well, if I was the Attorney General, I read your code that says the city shall. 03:44:37
Be protected from undue pressure. 03:44:41
They're going to say. What does that mean? Where is that defined? In other words, it's just too vague. I understand. 03:44:43
That it sends a signal to the employees that you're not trying to protect them. I do like putting it in the employee. 03:44:49
In other words, you could say we want to take this out of the code and we'll adopt that, I'm sorry, in the employee handbook 03:44:56
because that's your next revision. 03:45:00
There's other code sections need to be revised, but the employee handbook also needs to be revised. 03:45:05
Because in the ploy handbook you can put. 03:45:10
What the limitations over the mayor when he does a severance agreement? 03:45:12
So we know that it has to be revised already. So in other words, it's. 03:45:15
This. Massage it and in your recommendation put it in the handbook. 03:45:20
Are I'll massage it and leave it here, whatever you would like to do. 03:45:24
Either way, there's no way that it would go to because the governing where the. 03:45:27
It's where the. 03:45:33
Buck stops is the governing. 03:45:34
Body and so like it can't go to. 03:45:36
An employee that is our subordinate. 03:45:39
I think the argument. 03:45:42
Is that it's preventing a council member from going rogue? 03:45:44
Right, so. 03:45:49
Right, but there's already preventions in the code. Anyone has the right to go to the ethics Commission and file a complaint? 03:45:51
And that complaint is confidential. The. 03:45:58
The only person that knows about the complaint is the person that the complaint is filed against. Other than that, the governing 03:46:01
body is not given a copy of the complete. 03:46:05
Plane what I what I'm fine like if if we're saying this is already. 03:46:09
Allowable or this is already a venue? 03:46:15
Why take it out? 03:46:18
Taking it out only if everything in here is truly already allowable. 03:46:19
Because you have because you literally you have a false understanding or feeling with an employees in the past two years. 03:46:23
Where it actually? 03:46:31
Empowers them or makes it feel like. 03:46:32
There's a venue to solve this without the governing body that they're going to. 03:46:35
Be able and it's like. 03:46:41
You're supposed to go to the state for this. Why? 03:46:43
You wouldn't go to you. 03:46:45
I mean, if they had a complaint, would they go to you? 03:46:47
To investigate it. 03:46:49
No, I, I. 03:46:51
Give counsel to the governing right so you're conflicted out. They wouldn't go to the city manager because the city manager. 03:46:52
Is a subordinate to us. So that's what's so troubling is. 03:46:58
Where do you go It says that. 03:47:03
So violations would be subject to review and possible action by the City Council. 03:47:06
It specifies it comes back to the Council. 03:47:11
Which? 03:47:14
Look, I'm, I'm cool with if we want to have the council police the council if you have a rogue member or something like that, I'm 03:47:15
OK with that. I think at a minimum it should probably be. 03:47:19
I mean you use the term massage. 03:47:25
But. 03:47:27
Like we said other places out. 03:47:28
There are several other places that we specify clearly that each Council members. 03:47:30
Cannot. 03:47:36
You know shouldn't direct interact directly with the staff by saying you give you assignment to do this we request go to the mayor 03:47:36
or the city manager until otherwise delegated. 03:47:42
Yeah, that's right. And that's in those cases. 03:47:47
It's not undue pressure. 03:47:52
So I would maybe argue. 03:47:54
That you just. 03:47:56
Edit this paragraph. 03:47:58
To say something to the effect of. 03:48:00
The mayor or city administrator. 03:48:03
Will establish A confidential process for staff to report concerns about inappropriate interactions or directives from council 03:48:06
members. 03:48:10
Ensuring these concerns can be addressed without fear of retaliation. 03:48:14
To be reviewed. 03:48:18
By the City Council. 03:48:19
Or something to that effect. 03:48:21
Because it's all coming back to the Council anyways. 03:48:23
Yeah, there is a complaint. It goes through the city manager or the mayor. 03:48:26
And then it comes to the Council. 03:48:29
So just I would just add a sentence. Nothing in this paragraph. 03:48:31
Prohibits city employee from. 03:48:35
Seeking other perfect going to the state yeah like because I think that's because those are the protections where they're really 03:48:37
gonna get yeah just not prohibiting an employee from. 03:48:42
If something is unethical is being done and they're asked to be. 03:48:47
To be part of it. So, for example, if there's a bribery taking place and they're asking to be part of the bribe, they can go to 03:48:51
the state ethics Commission. So they're not prohibited, just they're not exclusively going to the City Council or breaking in with 03:48:56
them. Yeah. 03:49:01
Mayor Yes, just just as a. 03:49:06
Little clarification. 03:49:09
There there is a. 03:49:11
I would say that there is a chasm between. 03:49:13
Things that merit the attention of the. 03:49:15
Attorney General. 03:49:18
And things that. 03:49:20
Could be handled quite easily. 03:49:21
At this level, if the if the if the issue is fairly. 03:49:23
Minor but it's but it's meaningful to that employee and the council can say hey. 03:49:28
Let's make a correction here. Councilmember AB or C. 03:49:32
This, this isn't, you know, appropriate behavior. It's it's a minor thing that that at a local level we fix it. 03:49:38
Like that, Sure. Who makes that determination then and how is that specific council? And I would expect that to come through the 03:49:44
HR director. 03:49:48
You would expect, I would expect that that feedback come back to the Council through the HR director. 03:49:52
Right. Likely, Yeah. Well, then should just be put in the scene, which is why I think they this belongs to the play handbook. 03:49:57
Yeah, like. 03:50:06
100% agree with that and not only that but in the employee handbook it should direct them and educate them about the state offered 03:50:07
the state availability to. 03:50:11
You know, report to auditor. 03:50:16
You know, they investigate us all the time. 03:50:19
And that's up to you. You decide. I'm just. 03:50:22
Drafting what you want or I'm deleting what you don't want or adding what you. 03:50:27
I think my recommendation would be. 03:50:32
We make this. 03:50:35
Fat edit with the heavily massaged piece, I think that satisfies. 03:50:36
Ezra's concern and we move the bulk of this into the city handbook where it. 03:50:41
Rightly belongs. 03:50:47
Yeah. Is everybody good with that? 03:50:49
And then that would be the last substantial edit in this I've got. It ends after that. The only other change is adding mayor to 03:50:51
the mayor or city manager. 03:50:56
OK, I could be and we can progress. 03:51:02
So I want to ask the city manager a question. 03:51:07
Would it be appropriate for the governing body, since they're the body that makes all the policies, for them to make this policy, 03:51:11
or do you think that should? 03:51:14
To the administrator of the city and and why I guess I'm I want to educate the council. 03:51:19
Sorry, can I jump in? I think if moving it to the employee handbook, we'll be able to just spell out exactly what that process is 03:51:27
and so we won't have to. 03:51:31
Have this directive for the manager to make that. 03:51:34
OK. Yeah, agree. I like that. 03:51:37
I like that. 03:51:41
And we want to say. 03:51:42
If there's somebody doing something illegal or. 03:51:43
Or pressuring them to break the. 03:51:45
Engineering they. 03:51:47
Go through and do it. 03:51:49
But every single as I've consulted. 03:51:50
All of them. They go. 03:51:53
So someone's gonna turn. 03:51:55
A member of the governing board in for doing something in that small Gray area. 03:51:57
Like that's what the ethics. 03:52:02
It's not against the law. I guess that's where I love it coming back to the council, because it's it's not something that the 03:52:04
state AG is going to put on their radar because it's not this huge violation, right? But if it's something that makes the 03:52:09
employees feel more comfortable voicing their opinions on. 03:52:14
Here's professional standards. 03:52:19
Like we can review that and say. 03:52:20
Yeah, I know what this is somewhat of a Gray area we. 03:52:22
Agree that you should do that thing. 03:52:25
And here's why. 03:52:27
Then they still feel comfortable sharing. 03:52:29
Those thoughts and opinions without fear of retaliation. We are all aware. 03:52:31
Hey, this is. 03:52:35
Somebody's not getting fired over this. This is is there a consensus to take it out and put it in the policies or is it consensus 03:52:36
to massage it? 03:52:39
Both both massage it. It was a new not what it's we're going to take it up. 03:52:43
Take out what's written. Add the massaged paragraph in its place. 03:52:47
And move the. 03:52:51
This to the employee similar to the procurement code will. 03:52:52
OK, why don't I just? 03:52:55
So I know how to massage it, just simply say. 03:52:56
That the. 03:52:59
Mayor are the. 03:53:02
City Manager. HR Director. 03:53:03
OK, well. 03:53:05
The HR director reports to them. So somebody else? Yeah, leave it. Leave it as the mayor. As for the city manager, let's do the 03:53:07
mayor. 03:53:10
They can't establish a policy or shall establish employee handbook. 03:53:13
Relating to. 03:53:17
Retaliation or whatever else it says. Inappropriate interactions or directives from council members ensuring these concerns can be 03:53:19
addressed without fear of retaliation. 03:53:23
OK, so that's what I'll put that the mayors are. 03:53:27
City Manager shall. 03:53:31
Establish a policy in the. 03:53:32
Employee Handbook. 03:53:34
For that protection. 03:53:35
Does that is everybody. 03:53:37
I'm OK. Are we on the same? Are we? I thought we were just going to create that. 03:53:38
Process. 03:53:42
So we're putting, we're going to take this. 03:53:44
Put it into the handbook Well, so right now what it says is that. 03:53:46
Right now what it says is that the city manager creates the process. Yeah, I'm just saying we just list that out. So if we're all 03:53:49
saying. 03:53:52
Go to HR manager. I'm happy to do that. 03:53:55
But we're not drafting that right now. 03:53:58
Yeah. So we'll do it. 03:54:01
Who will empower the So let's to. 03:54:03
Create that process at our next meeting. Can we invite the HR director and actually just. 03:54:06
Go through that best practices with her and put that in the handbook. 03:54:12
Have the mayor and them. 03:54:15
Put together the practice, why don't we do this? The mayors just ultimately responsible for. Why don't we leave this in? Because I 03:54:16
don't think there be any retaliation in the next week or the next two weeks. So why don't we leave this in and let the City 03:54:22
Council talk to the HR, talk to the city manager and therefore we don't have to make a decision because. 03:54:28
I'm getting different messages of what I should do. Sure. OK, so let's just leave it in and move forward, right. And and Tony, 03:54:34
could you make a note to make to bring this back to the City Council this. 03:54:38
Already done. Thank you. 03:54:42
OK, training and education. 03:54:45
The city shall provide regular training sessions for both council members and staff on effective communication. What are you, What 03:54:48
are you on here? Oh, he's just reading the last. 03:54:51
This is the right after that paragraph. 03:54:55
I already read that there was no minus the mayor being. 03:54:58
I want to ask what? 03:55:05
What we accept as as regular training sessions, I mean, what? 03:55:07
I mean once again this seems. 03:55:11
Undefined. That's the things like I would assume the UCLT. 03:55:13
Trainings and things that are provided to us. 03:55:17
So does this mean we send the whole the staff down to Saint George to the? 03:55:19
Tea conference like we've done previously. 03:55:23
So why don't we say the city shall provide regular training sessions as determined by the mayor or the city manager? 03:55:30
OK, great. 03:55:36
Good. 03:55:39
Now. 03:55:40
You can also. 03:55:42
You can go in and veto, you can have a vote or tell the city manager you don't like a training and. 03:55:43
They can take it out I'm. 03:55:49
OK with the. 03:55:51
You're the policymaker, but let's give that. 03:55:52
I like your suggestion. 03:55:57
This review and monitoring that mayor City Council, in collaboration with human resources director shall monitor council staff 03:56:02
interactions and provide periodic reports of City Council these reports should highlight any systemic issues, trends and requests 03:56:07
that strain resources or. 03:56:11
And recommendations for improving the effectiveness of Council staff interactions based on these reports. 03:56:16
The City Council may consider adjustments to policies governing council staff interactions to ensure they may they remain 03:56:22
constructive, respectful and in the best interests of efficient city governance. 03:56:27
Is there any reason we want to keep that? 03:56:32
I mean, is there is there anything that? 03:56:35
I would just leave it. 03:56:36
No, there's nothing new other than the change to add the mayor verbiage where it says the mayor and city manager. 03:56:37
It. 03:56:44
It seems like this seems duplicated to meet. 03:56:44
Yeah, it's redundant, but that's whatever, so leave it in. 03:56:47
Sure, why not just leave it? 03:56:51
Great. 03:56:54
So now can I make a motion? This is a business item, yeah. 03:56:57
I move to adopt ordinance 202601 amending municipal code titles 2 and 3. 03:57:02
As amended in this meeting. 03:57:08
I would like to make a counter motion. I second it. 03:57:11
Oh, sorry. 03:57:14
Oh do I do that after the second? I think after the 2nd. 03:57:16
I think you have to. 03:57:18
Let it ask him to table this motion. 03:57:20
I can make I can make a counter motion. 03:57:23
Just so it's on then. 03:57:25
On the table and Parker you table your motion from 1 moment. 03:57:26
Thank you. 03:57:30
I would like given the amount of changes that we've had. I mean, I know I got this. 03:57:32
Monday night. 03:57:36
I read through it through the night. I'm tired. 03:57:38
I think I've got all the changes. 03:57:40
I would like to, for the public's benefit, give them an opportunity to review all the proposed changes. A lot of them had to leave 03:57:43
in the middle of this meeting. 03:57:46
So I don't think it would hurt to post it for two weeks. 03:57:51
And just continue it to our next meeting. 03:57:53
Make sure we have clarification on all the drafts. We've got a few different. 03:57:55
Things that. 03:57:59
We said we'd fix here and there. 03:58:00
That way we're just all on the same page with the same version. 03:58:02
With all those documents and then we can improve it in two weeks. Thank you for your comments I'm. 03:58:05
I'm wondering. 03:58:10
Will the mayor be able to act and do personnel matters as he chooses if we don't enact something tonight? 03:58:12
The mayor has no authority on personnel matters right now. We have to give him such authority. We do. And so I have all of the. 03:58:19
Changes marked in my margins here. Would you like me to share those real quick? Because there's only 7, there's really only 7 03:58:27
changes that we made in this freaking 100 pages. 03:58:32
So like I don't, I don't think it's. 03:58:38
And none of the changes were so substantial that it actually. 03:58:41
Modified anything that we discussed. 03:58:44
It's a change in verbiage. 03:58:47
Can I make a counter to your counter? 03:58:48
Sure, Which is? 03:58:50
In two weeks, we keep this on an agenda. 03:58:52
Just in case there are mistakes to change it at that time. 03:58:55
I think that. 03:58:59
Were coming from like a. 03:59:00
Empty 50%. 03:59:02
And we probably got it to a 9095% and maybe there's 5%. 03:59:03
That could be worded. 03:59:09
And let's just say. 03:59:11
It's a living document like, you know, and we're able to adjust those 5% so the mayor can do what he needs to do, do the staff 03:59:13
changes. 03:59:16
Have the citizens understand that we work to the best if we could, through a massive array of changes, especially because we're. 03:59:21
Taking on a change of government. 03:59:27
But I would recognize. 03:59:28
That the citizens do need 2 weeks to look at it. 03:59:30
And we would just. 03:59:34
Especially publicly say hey. 03:59:35
We voted to approve it. 03:59:37
But we will 100% already have it at Jedized. 03:59:39
And I have a public comment period at that time. 03:59:43
And vote to ratify it. Yeah, I would actually be comfortable with that. 03:59:46
So then we're gonna do. I think the mayor needs to do now. 03:59:50
But then also. 03:59:54
We'll address all those. 03:59:55
And just have, yeah, just have the nice and quite frankly, not to hold you accountable. Sorry, your edit ability, your wording, 03:59:57
you know, let's make sure. So let me make a recommendation. I will get a due draft out to the council members. 04:00:03
And remember, I've taken notes, but they may not entirely be accurate, so I'm not trying to. 04:00:09
Put my. 04:00:14
On the scale, if I'm inaccurate, please correct me so that I can do the accurate and then when the council says. 04:00:16
Hey, I think that looks good. Then that will be the final one that is presented. So we vote. We voted to pass. 04:00:23
We collect the revisions and re review next week with changes to make sure the verbiage is all correct. 04:00:29
I've got highlighted each of the sections that we're making a substantial change to or a change to in the the wordage. So I have a 04:00:36
motion from Parker to accept to pass this as as amended currently with the. 04:00:42
With the provision that it will come back before the Council at our next scheduled meeting. 04:00:48
2nd. 04:00:52
I second up. 04:00:53
OK. And this is this is by ordinance that we have to take a roll call vote? 04:00:56
Ezra. 04:01:02
Aye. 04:01:05
Aye, aye. 04:01:06
Councilman Mccum. 04:01:08
Hi, Jacob. Hold away. Hi. 04:01:09
May I be excused? 04:01:12
We went in order, Tony, so we're good. May I be excused? Yes. 04:01:15
Thank you very, very much for your time this has been. 04:01:19
And Crown be helpful for us. 04:01:22
OK, so that's what's next. We're looking at the Arts Commission. 04:01:24
You're actually really going to appreciate me. 04:01:29
For this endless. 04:01:31
Brian, did you want to? 04:01:32
OK, so in in looking over this after it was added, it turns out that the. 04:01:34
Approval of these grants. 04:01:42
Are sent such that they should be done between February and March. So we were actually a little early on when we had it. And so 04:01:44
the recommendation from staff would be just to continue until the next meeting. I move to continue. 04:01:51
Can I make comment on those? 04:01:58
Just as a. 04:02:02
Guidance or a thought process? 04:02:03
So I went through all of the. 04:02:05
Requests in there, and the vast majority of it is is directly. 04:02:08
Benefiting I think vineyard and causes that we would all support here. 04:02:12
With uh. 04:02:15
The bulk of the money to the Heritage Commission. 04:02:16
And then? 04:02:19
Donations to the library were projected and the Friends of the Library. That's the fundraising arm of the library. 04:02:20
The one that I had a. 04:02:27
Question or comment about that, I would like maybe some additional justification for. 04:02:29
Was the. 04:02:34
Mobile. 04:02:35
Half pipe. 04:02:37
So it was like. 04:02:38
$5600 for a mobile halfpipe. 04:02:39
As part of an organization that does suicide prevention for kids. 04:02:44
And mental resiliency. 04:02:47
Just my argument there. 04:02:51
Would be that I am. 04:02:54
Very interested in. 04:02:56
Scrutinizing how we spend tax dollars, and this was a tax that was levied by the previous council. 04:02:58
A halfpipe, for those who are unaware, is a skateboard. 04:03:03
Beecher, that is. 04:03:08
Very elite. 04:03:10
And is used by like less than 1% of people that skateboards. So there was a previous proposal in the Arch Commission paperwork. 04:03:11
That, uh. 04:03:18
They were saying. 04:03:20
The initial intent was to do skateboard features at Vineyard Grove Park, but that the Arts Commission was preferring to use a 04:03:22
mobile half pipe for Vineyard City events in lieu of the. 04:03:28
Skateboard features. 04:03:34
I would actually recommend that maybe we just look at. 04:03:35
Running that. 04:03:38
Money, yeah. 04:03:39
Back through the Vineyard Parks and Rec, who is already working to do their skate park and using funds from this exact tax thing. 04:03:40
That's just something to do center. 04:03:49
I these monies are from the rap tax and it can only be used for these kinds of things. So we so we have. 04:03:51
They have to be used. 04:03:58
Accordingly, but that is 11 use. I think that would be allowed. 04:03:59
Correct it. That's actually how Parks and Rec is being funded for the skate park. 04:04:03
Yeah. So if you'd like, I can speak to that really quick. So that also is a reason why. 04:04:07
We are moving. 04:04:13
We'd like to move this to the second meeting in February. 04:04:15
So we found out that. 04:04:20
There's some liability, you know. 04:04:24
Potential issues with the halfpipe? 04:04:26
And the. 04:04:30
Company was not going to comply with. 04:04:33
The uh. 04:04:35
Guidelines provided by the Trust. 04:04:36
And so essentially we wanted to bring that back to the Arch Commission. 04:04:39
To then reevaluate. 04:04:43
If they still want to move forward with that recommendation or if they want to allocate those monies. 04:04:45
Elsewhere to one of the other applicants. 04:04:50
So that's that's also the other reason. 04:04:52
Why we wanted to. 04:04:54
Postpone it. Thank you so. 04:04:55
I'll entertain a motion to. 04:04:57
Continue this item to the second. 04:04:59
Meeting in February. 04:05:01
I moved to continue this item. 04:05:03
To early February. 04:05:05
The second meeting in February or the first meeting in February? Well, I said section. 04:05:08
Second, they like the second so. 04:05:12
The second, let me do that. OK, so amended. 04:05:14
2nd from Ezra, thank you. 04:05:17
All in favor say aye. 04:05:21
Aye. 04:05:23
Any opposed? 04:05:25
Done. OK. 04:05:27
Passes. 04:05:28
It's continued. 04:05:29
All right, let's take a look at the next one. 04:05:30
And this is the. 04:05:32
The budget amendment, I believe. 04:05:33
We have a public hearing. 04:05:35
Man. 04:05:38
I move that we open up a public hearing. 04:05:39
Hearing the public has disappeared, so maybe we should. 04:05:41
Consider. 04:05:45
Continuing this as well. 04:05:47
Can I ask, OK, it says Eric will be presenting the proposed amendments. Eric, is this something that we can? 04:05:48
Continue. Or is it something that's urgent? 04:05:55
It's urgent. 04:05:57
We don't have to have the plan. 04:05:57
Public here. It's being live streamed probably. 04:05:59
Yeah, I moved to impossible that public hearing and then no public input ads. 04:06:04
10:16 PM. 04:06:09
Right. Is there a second? 04:06:11
Aye, all in favor. 04:06:14
Aye. 04:06:17
OK. Eric, would you? 04:06:19
Yeah, I'll run us through. 04:06:22
OK. On our general fund? 04:06:24
You'll notice on the packet we've got a summary. 04:06:26
On the agenda packet that makes it a little bit easier to dive through this. 04:06:29
As far as general fund revenues? 04:06:33
We've got some adjustments, so beginning fund balance appropriation. 04:06:35
Is being reduced because of some additional revenue that was not forecast. 04:06:39
BNC Rd. funds came in a little bit high so we've got 142,000 extra. 04:06:45
Interest earnings is higher than expected because of our. 04:06:50
Grant dollars that are in our account, the $10 million. 04:06:53
For the most part. 04:06:57
That added an extra 425,000 in interest. 04:06:58
Transfer from the RDA. 04:07:02
Came in just a little bit higher than expected. 04:07:05
And that's the. 04:07:07
4% administrative. 04:07:09
Amount that comes to the city. 04:07:11
And then as a result of that, the transfer from capital projects fund. 04:07:14
To the general fund is. 04:07:18
Less is needed, 32,000 is. 04:07:21
Less is needed. 04:07:24
To satisfy the budget requests. 04:07:25
From the expenses, we've got adjustments. 04:07:28
In the mayor and council budget for the new administrative assistant. 04:07:31
Of 27,000, well total is 48,470. 04:07:37
But the wages? 04:07:42
Is 27,000. 04:07:45
And you'll look through the individual adjustments on that as well. 04:07:46
From the city manager's account, there's a 72,318. 04:07:51
Extra is needed and that accounts for. 04:07:56
The city manager, severance and the removal of the deputy recorders. 04:07:59
Portion from that city Manager account. 04:08:04
In the recorder's budget. 04:08:07
There's an extra 5162. 04:08:09
Again, that accounts for the recorder severance. 04:08:13
And the removal of the deputy. 04:08:16
City Recorder. 04:08:18
And then combines those. 04:08:20
When we jump down to the finance account, there's an extra 16,955. 04:08:22
Plus the smaller weight benefits. 04:08:28
That accounts for the. 04:08:31
The finance Director Severance and. 04:08:32
And the increase to the accountant. 04:08:35
In the communications budget, we've got a minor adjustment to add a. 04:08:38
CTC phone reimbursement of 600 for the year. 04:08:43
In the planning department. 04:08:47
There's an extra 34,610. 04:08:49
That accounts for the. 04:08:52
Community Development Director severance package. 04:08:53
In fire. 04:08:57
There is 3500 added. 04:08:58
And that accounts for. 04:09:00
We now have a physical fire station in the city. 04:09:02
And we have to pay the. 04:09:06
Utilities on that so that. 04:09:07
Covers those utilities. 04:09:09
In public works. 04:09:12
There is a new position. 04:09:14
That adds 64,730. 04:09:15
That's shifting. The existing administrative assistant who? 04:09:18
Also it. 04:09:22
Works on. 04:09:23
Cybersecurity and IT. 04:09:24
Over to be under. 04:09:27
The. 04:09:29
Public Works director to kind of. 04:09:30
Spread out some duties there and help out. 04:09:31
Does he have funding that follows him? 04:09:34
The administrative assistant that goes over to Public Works. 04:09:38
Correct, this is new funding to keep that position in the. 04:09:41
In the city. 04:09:45
For an existing. 04:09:46
Position. 04:09:47
Or an existing employee. 04:09:47
So that existing employee will get more. 04:09:49
No, that employee gets the same amount. It's the. 04:09:52
The mayors assistant that gets. 04:09:54
More than the previous mayor's assistant was receiving. 04:09:58
OK. 04:10:01
OK. Jumping over to the impact fee fund. 04:10:04
There is. 04:10:08
For parks. 04:10:10
There because that. 04:10:11
Parks impact fee was adopted. 04:10:12
Later than expected. 04:10:15
There is a reduction in the amount that we anticipate. 04:10:17
Bringing in this year of approximately 300,000. 04:10:20
And then in a similar fashion. 04:10:26
The expenses? 04:10:28
In parks is reduced by that same amount. 04:10:29
Under the Capital Projects Fund. 04:10:33
We have. 04:10:35
A city portion to the regional trail. 04:10:37
That is being added on. 04:10:40
As you know, working through. 04:10:42
For both 400 S and Center St. 04:10:44
Intersections. 04:10:47
MAG funded. 04:10:49
I think an extra almost $1,000,000. 04:10:51
To cover those two projects that just. 04:10:54
Grew in scope to some degree. 04:10:56
That's the hawk on Center St. 04:10:58
Over by Gammon Park the. 04:11:01
The overhead. 04:11:02
Crosswalk. 04:11:04
And then the intersection. 04:11:05
Down on 400 S that. 04:11:07
That realigns. 04:11:08
Lakeside Park and. 04:11:10
The road across the street. 04:11:13
Vineyard Elementary, it aligns that and creates the all of the traffic light and so forth. 04:11:16
And so our portion is a tiny portion. It's a. 04:11:21
I can't remember. 04:11:23
6 1/2 percent. 04:11:25
And we just had to come up with that extra 32,000 to. 04:11:27
To cover our small portion of that. 04:11:29
Grant through. 04:11:32
On the water fund. 04:11:36
There's some minor adjustments. 04:11:39
There's a $12,000. 04:11:43
Additional. 04:11:45
Expense and this is an enterprise fund, so this is just. 04:11:47
Appropriating the dollars from that specific fund. 04:11:50
To cover. 04:11:53
A master plan with. 04:11:55
It's called. 04:11:57
This is the north Utah County. 04:11:59
Aquifer. 04:12:01
Coalition. 04:12:03
It brings Vineyard into that planning process so that we can be part of the negotiated. 04:12:04
How water gets distributed in north Utah County. 04:12:11
So if you cut yourself, Utah County did one of these recently and it was hugely beneficial for. 04:12:14
Long term planning of water needs. 04:12:19
By all those communities. 04:12:21
We wanted to be part of that. 04:12:22
Conversation so that we don't get left out on. 04:12:24
On the negotiations of how water is used and making sure that vineyard. 04:12:27
Is able to satisfy. 04:12:31
Future Water, Which fund is that? What was that dollar amount? That's the 12,682. 04:12:33
OK, in the water, out of the water fund. 04:12:37
And then we've got in the sewer fund. 04:12:43
There's. 04:12:46
Balance that's being reduced. 04:12:48
Out of this out of the. 04:12:50
Expenditure line of 186,000. 04:12:52
This is due to the fact that we're not trading in the back truck and purchasing a new one. 04:12:55
So it's just reducing that. 04:13:00
That first payment. 04:13:02
In the stormwater fund. 04:13:06
There's very minor, it's $682. This is just. 04:13:08
Every time a position changes. 04:13:16
So not every position, but. 04:13:18
In this case, it's the accountant. 04:13:21
The accountants duties are shared between some of the enterprise funds. 04:13:22
And so this small portion is due to the increase in the accountant. 04:13:27
Position. 04:13:31
Of $682.00 so. 04:13:32
Very small. 04:13:34
The transportation fund. 04:13:35
We've got a. 04:13:37
Reduction in the revenue of 15,000. 04:13:39
And 205,000. 04:13:42
These are to cover annual services. 04:13:45
And as a result of that. 04:13:49
This is again due to kind of an adoption of that. 04:13:54
Transportation Utility. 04:13:57
A rate being adopted later than expected from when we first budgeted for that. 04:14:00
And so it just indicates that there won't be, we're not going to be setting aside 124,000 into savings. 04:14:06
We're just adjusting that up to the actual expenditures and. 04:14:12
Making that. 04:14:16
Minor adjustments so that we don't have the discrepancy on our budget. 04:14:17
Lastly, on our internal services fund. 04:14:22
We've this is this is going towards the increase or the new position? 04:14:25
For David. 04:14:31
And again, it's just a minor one that just comes out of. 04:14:33
HR With every new employee there's some minor. 04:14:36
Additions for Wellness memberships and dues travel. 04:14:40
Again, they're all pretty minor. It adds an extra $280. 04:14:45
To the Internal Services Fund. 04:14:48
And that's all of them. 04:14:50
I moved to close the public hearing. How can I do that? 04:14:58
We need to ask if there's anyone in the public that wants to speak to the. 04:15:02
To the budget amendment. 04:15:05
OK, no SO. 04:15:08
Now we'll accept a motion to close. 04:15:10
I move to close the public hearing. 04:15:13
At 10:25 PM. 04:15:15
Do we have a second? 04:15:19
2nd. 04:15:20
All in favor say aye. 04:15:23
Aye, aye. 04:15:24
Aye, any opposed? 04:15:25
OK, it's closed. 04:15:28
So we get to talk about it now. 04:15:29
Can I ask Eric? 04:15:32
OK, so. 04:15:35
Following along. 04:15:36
Generally speaking, these aren't. 04:15:37
Major net changes. 04:15:40
Their adjustments based on actions being taken. 04:15:42
Correct. 04:15:47
Anyone else? 04:15:52
Yeah, I. 04:15:54
I would really like SO. 04:15:59
The budget is. 04:16:02
One of it's it's our most important duty as City Council members. 04:16:03
And. 04:16:07
Hiring staff. 04:16:09
Is the quickest way. 04:16:11
I mean like. 04:16:14
Having another staff member. So we've hired another staff member. We've hired an additional. 04:16:15
Administrative assistant it sounds like and then increase the salary of 1. 04:16:18
And I believe that the Council should. I would. 04:16:23
Love for the Council to be. 04:16:27
Involved in all those decisions because it has such an impact on the Budget 80. 04:16:29
Basically 80% of. 04:16:33
Of our budget. 04:16:35
In any given year. 04:16:36
Is. 04:16:38
Salaries and benefits. 04:16:39
And so. 04:16:41
I think we need to. 04:16:43
Make sure that we are monitoring that closely and. 04:16:44
Being well apprised of all all those decisions. 04:16:48
So. 04:16:51
Especially given, I mean we talked about. 04:16:53
The kind of threefold mandate increased transparency. 04:16:55
Reduce taxes. 04:16:59
And uh. 04:17:01
What was the third one? 04:17:04
That you said, Jacob Parking. 04:17:05
On your on your. 04:17:07
Mandates, but anyway. 04:17:10
The fancy. 04:17:12
Shrink government. 04:17:14
It's too late. It's 10, OK, whatever that third one was. But I know, I know taxes was a big part of that. 04:17:16
And lower taxes? Yes, hiring more staff. 04:17:21
I think those decisions. 04:17:26
Always should come to the Council. 04:17:27
So I would, I would love, are you proposing that every staff member that the city hires comes before the council? 04:17:29
Every position, yes. So if we have a vacancy, we can. 04:17:36
Administratively fill that vacancy, but anytime we're adding a new position. 04:17:39
We should have that decision come to the council because that's such a big impact on the budget. 04:17:43
Didn't we just vote to give the mayor power to to make those kinds of decisions? 04:17:48
Not on the budget. We have to set the budget every year. The council statutory has to do that. 04:17:52
And so this and because the staffing plan basically. 04:17:57
Like if we. 04:18:00
Establish a staffing plan that's out of line with the budget. 04:18:01
Then like we, we basically are forced into a position where we have to approve the budget if a staff member of new staff members 04:18:05
hired. 04:18:08
And I feel like that's. 04:18:11
That's where I'm at today. 04:18:12
Where we've already. 04:18:14
Hired a new staff member. 04:18:15
Or created a new position and then backfilled the old position. 04:18:17
Without me ever having a chance to. 04:18:20
To vote on that. 04:18:23
And voice my concerns when we're trying to. 04:18:24
You know. 04:18:28
Have the goal of lowering taxes. 04:18:30
I think these decisions are. 04:18:32
Not all of them, but but especially the staffing ones, we have to be. 04:18:33
A lot more careful about. 04:18:37
Doing that. 04:18:39
Just so we're not forced into that. 04:18:40
Position. 04:18:42
I can understand the circumstances. 04:18:44
And appreciate that. 04:18:46
And I think under the. 04:18:48
Transition of. 04:18:50
The government and all the restructuring. 04:18:51
I met with the mayor and I feel comfortable with. 04:18:55
The reduction in the size of overall government. I know we voted to give him a lot of power tonight. 04:18:58
And so those will be coming in the. 04:19:04
Coming month is we meet with staff. 04:19:05
And I I see his overall. 04:19:08
Agenda and I think he's. 04:19:11
A plan an off site with. 04:19:13
All departments to kind of hear what they're doing. 04:19:15
So overall, I know what you're saying, like the snapshot tonight where we're increasing the budget. 04:19:18
For a short period of time. 04:19:23
Because of the budget, I think it in the long run. 04:19:25
A page I don't know well, the nuance that Jake is trying to acknowledge is that decisions are not made in a vacuum. And while we 04:19:29
might be hiring an individual and paying. 04:19:34
One additional salary. 04:19:39
Temporarily. 04:19:40
All of us are. 04:19:42
In the know. 04:19:43
That there is. 04:19:44
Substantial turnover on the horizon and some positions probably will not be filled because we are shrinking the size of the 04:19:46
government in accordance with. 04:19:50
Campaign promises several people who self selected not to continue service with the government. 04:19:54
Our government. 04:19:59
And so that's those things are in process. 04:20:00
We've given the mayor power now to. 04:20:03
Complete that act. 04:20:06
Those actions tonight, today, I think we'll see the result of that coming up. 04:20:07
Yeah. So I think just allowing him to work over the next month, but I agree with you. Like in a perfect world, it would be amazing 04:20:12
to. 04:20:15
Under circumstances. 04:20:19
I hear about it get together, this is where we're going to go and also the order of operation, right? I agree with the order, but. 04:20:21
It's something that's like. 04:20:30
I think from this point on we. 04:20:32
We probably ought to do exactly as you suggest. 04:20:34
Well, and be careful with that and make sure we do deal with those things. And quite frankly, I'm excited to, I mean, I know. 04:20:37
The mayor is going to make more public the different. 04:20:43
You know, assignments and different things, but I'm excited to look at the budget that Parkers. 04:20:46
And I'm going to be recommending and I'm. 04:20:51
Pretty confident meeting with him that. 04:20:53
The shrinking of government. 04:20:55
We'll be OK. 04:20:57
In the long term. 04:20:59
Not too long term. 04:21:01
I'm optimistic. 04:21:03
Yeah, so. 04:21:04
But yeah, I agree with your point. 04:21:08
Well, thank you for that commitment. 04:21:13
Yeah, I would love to be in the know on all those conversations I feel like I could add value on. 04:21:17
On some of those things as well, so I will. 04:21:22
So would I leave it at that? 04:21:25
Wait. 04:21:26
Are there any other comments? 04:21:31
I'm ready to vote if anyone else wants more comments. 04:21:34
OK, I'll. 04:21:38
I'll accept a motion then. On this I move to adopt. 04:21:39
Resolution 26-05 approving fiscal year 252026. 04:21:43
Budget Amendment 3 as presented. 04:21:49
2nd. 04:21:52
And this is by roll call vote. 04:21:54
And so we'll start with Parker this time. 04:21:57
Council Member Mccumber votes affirmatively with an aye. 04:21:59
Council member Holdaway. 04:22:03
Councilmember Wood I. 04:22:05
David says yes. 04:22:07
Councilmember Nair No, but. 04:22:10
Want to note the. 04:22:13
Thank you for the commitment to. 04:22:14
Make those changes in the future. 04:22:17
Well, the other thing that I passes. 04:22:19
The other thing that I would say is. 04:22:21
Meeting with. 04:22:23
I didn't. It's not that I don't know, it's that. 04:22:24
You know, sometimes. 04:22:27
These are sensitive situations and so. 04:22:28
I just went and met with the HR director and. 04:22:31
Just said hey can you keep me apprised and I know she'll. 04:22:34
Say hey, this is where things are at and. 04:22:37
I know things are going longer, different and. 04:22:39
They're sensitive, so we care about our employees, so. 04:22:42
Hey, before we adjourn. 04:22:46
Can I just get something on a public record? 04:22:49
Go for it, OK? 04:22:51
I would like to. 04:22:54
Requests. 04:22:55
For the next scheduled meeting. 04:22:56
Putting the. 04:23:00
Budget process. 04:23:01
How the Council has oversight on the budget process in a working session. 04:23:04
I sent an e-mail with that previously, but just so we're in public, I can get somebody else to say that they would support me in 04:23:08
that. 04:23:10
I agree. 04:23:14
I second that. 04:23:15
Yeah. And and I'd like to do that before we go into the budget retreat in February. 04:23:16
And knowing you're here. 04:23:21
Also, I would also like to. 04:23:23
To be being looking at the workload that we have of the two auditors. 04:23:26
The budget thing and other, I'm sure there's going to be more things that come. 04:23:30
Can we tell everyone now we will be? 04:23:34
City Council meeting this coming Tuesday. 04:23:37
And to have Tony adjust the City Council agenda to being every Tuesday instead of every other. 04:23:39
So I was thinking forward because it's better to be more transparent. 04:23:47
And adding emergency sessions every you know, yeah. And that was that was The thing is that I would like, I think maybe next time 04:23:51
could just be a special session specifically so that if there was going to be an additional change that was indefinite like that, 04:23:56
that it's something you guys could. 04:24:01
Could vote on. 04:24:07
Rather, my other idea of my other alternative idea was to say. 04:24:09
Just if we don't have a time frame, then it's, you know, indefinite, then every other Tuesday would end up having to be a special 04:24:14
session. 04:24:18
Right. And that's why we thought like it would be better. 04:24:21
We want to have council every Tuesday. 04:24:24
Well, we don't want to be here till 10. 04:24:26
O'clock at night. So we were thinking about having shorter meetings every Tuesday at 6:00 to 8:00. I know this man goes to sleep. 04:24:28
Complain. 04:24:32
So yeah, just. 04:24:36
I think 2 hour sessions for the. 04:24:38
Foreseeable near future that will increase. Lots of things to go through. 04:24:42
Staff agendas and stuff. 04:24:48
Comment. 04:24:51
I just have some personal conflicts. 04:24:56
On other Tuesdays, but. 04:24:59
If we rotated a Thursday's. 04:25:02
Like one week Tuesday, one week Thursday. 04:25:04
No, no. 04:25:07
Would be tough as well. 04:25:09
But umm. 04:25:10
That's just news to me. So I might just have to look at my schedule if we can. 04:25:13
Because if we can do that, then we're having more citizens here than. 04:25:17
Work until 10:30 at night. I mean I think they all left around. I mean I'm fine to have shorter meetings. 04:25:20
Every other week still. 04:25:26
I think only keep it on session on this we. 04:25:27
This was an abnormal meeting where you have 100 pages of city code that you're going through, right? 04:25:30
Right. But I think. 04:25:36
But I think this coming Tuesday, we've got to have it because we've got a lot of things. 04:25:38
We've we've got the two state auditors that. 04:25:42
Are planning this coming Tuesday. 04:25:44
I'm fine doing my special session this coming Tuesday. 04:25:46
Great go team. 04:25:49
The two others, Can I ask one more question, Eric? 04:25:51
Just it's a hypothetical questions but for my own knowledge and learning. 04:25:55
So. 04:25:59
Councilman Nair votes. 04:26:02
In the negative for the budget. But if we all had voted negative in the budget. 04:26:04
And we didn't approve that measure. What would be the direct impact on? 04:26:07
The immediate city operation. 04:26:12
You would struggle in your prior conversation. You were you approved. 04:26:15
You tentatively approved your new city code. 04:26:20
For the sole purpose of being able to payout severance packages to the cities that are separating from the city or from the 04:26:23
employees that are. 04:26:26
And. 04:26:29
You approved. 04:26:30
The budget that would. 04:26:32
Allow for those packages to be paid out. 04:26:34
Understood. 04:26:37
Some of them taking place immediately. 04:26:38
Others are. 04:26:41
You know, a couple weeks out, but. 04:26:42
All of them are. 04:26:44
Fairly inevitable in that. 04:26:45
Open the door for that to take place. 04:26:46
Yeah, I wanted to make sure that. 04:26:49
Vote was directly supporting those. 04:26:50
Efforts. 04:26:53
Thank you. 04:26:55
OK, was. 04:26:56
You got a journalist. 04:26:58
Anything else? 04:27:00
Hey, you, you gotta hit the. We are adjourned. No, you got to hit the. 04:27:01
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Transcript

Event transcript
That is so much better. I am so sorry for that so. 00:00:00
I will go ahead and get this call, the meeting call to order at 6:10. 00:00:04
As you can see, we are absent Mayor Stratton. 00:00:09
And so with that in mind. 00:00:13
What I would like to do is ask the Council to nominate. 00:00:15
One of your members to serve as the Mayor pro Tempore. 00:00:20
His absence. 00:00:25
I nominate David Larae to serve as Mayor pro Tempore during Mayor Stratton's absence. 00:00:26
All right. I second that. 00:00:32
And a second, OK, we'll do this by roll call Parker. 00:00:33
Hi, Councilmember. Aye, Councilmember Holdaway, Yes. 00:00:38
Councilmember Wood. 00:00:45
Councilmember Larae. 00:00:46
And council member Nair. 00:00:48
Hi, excellent. All right. Motion passes then? 00:00:50
I'm going to turn the time over then. 00:00:54
To our mayor pro tempore, David. 00:00:56
Thank you very much. 00:00:59
Thank you folks for coming and thank you very much for being patient as we get organized here. And. 00:01:01
And get our. 00:01:06
Recording is working. 00:01:08
We want to start with a. 00:01:10
Prayer and. 00:01:12
Pledge allegiance? I've asked. 00:01:14
I've asked a longtime resident and a former city official who's. 00:01:16
Who's seen a lot of changes here in Vineyard to help to lead us out in this And so I've asked Wayne Holdaway if he would come over 00:01:20
and and lead us in an order of prayer. 00:01:24
And then the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:01:29
So Wayne times yours. 00:01:31
Our righteous, eternal Father in heaven. 00:01:38
Oh, how grateful we are. 00:01:40
To be able to be assembled together in a form of government. 00:01:42
Father would ask that thou blessings will be with us. 00:01:46
People make decisions that are proper decisions that will be good for this wonderful city that we live in. 00:01:50
We love the Father. 00:01:56
And we say this. 00:01:58
And dedicate this meeting to you in Jesus name, Amen. Amen. 00:01:59
Twisted. 00:02:05
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:02:09
Of United States of America. 00:02:12
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:02:14
One nation under God. 00:02:17
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:02:20
Thank you. 00:02:23
When I first arrived in Vineyard. 00:02:32
We Wayne was serving as the chair of the Planning Commission and we had served for many years previously. 00:02:33
He's seen a lot of changes and I, I. 00:02:40
Like to talk with him about that, he shows you some things that have. 00:02:43
We've done well on some of the things that. 00:02:45
That maybe we could lookout to improving. 00:02:48
And it's nice. 00:02:49
Appreciate that very much. Thank you, Wayne. 00:02:51
OK, so the. 00:02:54
1st order of business it looks like. 00:02:55
Presentation. 00:02:58
We want to call on our Deputy City Recorder, Tony Lara, to talk to us about. 00:03:00
About closed sessions and why they're held and when they're held and why we have them on our agenda every week. 00:03:05
I share a thought before we start. Absolutely. 00:03:12
Just for. 00:03:15
Public context here. 00:03:16
The council kind of discussed last week. 00:03:18
Frustration with the. 00:03:21
Constant or the prevalence of closed meetings being on every agenda. 00:03:25
And we wanted to kind of. 00:03:30
Grab the expert opinion and and figure that out if it was just a catch all. 00:03:32
And we put it on there so that it's an option or if it's something that actually needs to be there. 00:03:36
Ultimately, it was. 00:03:42
My belief that we shouldn't have. 00:03:43
Closed door sessions on every agenda unless we intend to use them because I don't want to give the perception. 00:03:46
That that is our intent. 00:03:52
And you are absolutely correct with that. Just because there is a closed session mentioned on an agenda, there is no requirement 00:03:56
then to have that. 00:04:01
That closed session so. 00:04:05
Thanks for giving me the chance to talk to you guys about it. 00:04:08
Essentially. 00:04:11
As as I know you're all aware, there are stipulations that govern closed session meetings as far as. 00:04:13
The subject matter what can be discussed? 00:04:22
And how those are entered into. But also there is still that same stipulation of having to. 00:04:26
Anything that you are voting on needing to be agendized and noticed 24 hours in advance and so. 00:04:32
Generally the approach that we have. 00:04:39
With. 00:04:41
Adding a closed session onto an agenda. 00:04:43
Beforehand. 00:04:46
Regardless of whether we we. 00:04:48
One is planned or not, is to avoid situations where legitimate and time sensitive matters can't be addressed due to a lack of 00:04:50
advanced notice and so the best practice. 00:04:56
That I've inherited. 00:05:03
Was that we put that notice of the. 00:05:06
Closed session on every agenda. 00:05:10
Just as I'm sure you. 00:05:12
The Council has already been aware. 00:05:14
For as many meetings as you've had, sometimes things can change. Last minute discussions about personnel. Discussions about legal 00:05:16
strategies. 00:05:20
Property issues. 00:05:26
Those are all things that would. 00:05:27
During the course of a discussion in a meeting how the potential to come up and would warrant a closed meeting should you want 00:05:30
that and so I just want to make sure. 00:05:35
That that's on there so that you have that as an option and that it's already been. 00:05:41
Legally noticed. 00:05:46
So that way, like I said, there's not a delay in getting those. 00:05:47
Giving those. 00:05:52
Discussions taken care of. 00:05:53
Right. 00:05:56
No, sorry. That's it. That's actually I. 00:06:00
I've been a part of the Utah League of Cities and Towns where it's been taught to put on and had the clerks go back and forth as 00:06:03
to. 00:06:06
Why and how they? 00:06:09
How? By putting it on. 00:06:11
Every single week. 00:06:12
It makes it easier, you know, and you're just like, hey, because you follow the legal requirement means you can do it everything 00:06:14
but I think. 00:06:16
I like the idea. 00:06:20
Councilman. 00:06:21
Mccumber because it's like. 00:06:22
It's always there and citizens don't really know if we are or are not going to hold it. 00:06:25
And I would. 00:06:28
And I would rather. 00:06:29
It not be on the agenda even though it might. 00:06:30
Take a step just because I think. 00:06:34
The whole idea is that we're noticing. 00:06:37
That there is going to be 1. 00:06:39
Because it just sits there every week. 00:06:41
You know. 00:06:44
I don't. I think it's a loophole. 00:06:45
But I know. 00:06:48
Clerks around the state. 00:06:49
Half, or I mean it's about a mixed bag. 00:06:51
But I don't like it. 00:06:54
I'd rather it. 00:06:56
Hey, I've spoken with someone and we're actually doing it and and it means something because this doesn't. 00:06:57
It doesn't mean anything. It's just sitting there every day. 00:07:02
And that means it's like not really a notice. 00:07:04
Oh, sure. No, I mean, oh, absolutely. I sitting there every time that there's some ambiguity there and it, it, it makes me be for 00:07:08
some tension. 00:07:12
You know, if you see it on the agenda in here and you're wondering if it's going to be there or not, and so right, I can 00:07:16
definitely understand where. 00:07:19
Some of my colleagues too have mentioned that they that. 00:07:23
Is one of the reasons that they don't. 00:07:26
Place it on their agendas. So right, because citizens think like, oh, they're going to do it again, you know, and it's like, no, 00:07:27
it's just. 00:07:30
It ends up meaning nothing because it's on every single. 00:07:34
Week. 00:07:37
So that's my opinion. 00:07:40
You know Whorem does, Tony. 00:07:45
That I'm not I'm not sure on I other municipalities do they? 00:07:46
List. 00:07:51
A closed session on every. 00:07:52
I'm not sure on exactly which municipalities do that. 00:07:54
Sorry. 00:07:59
I'm fine getting rid of it, I mean, I think. 00:08:01
We had two in my time as city manager so. 00:08:03
We have them infrequently enough. 00:08:07
Here where we don't need to do it. 00:08:09
Even if other. I think it's commonplace for other entities to do it, but. 00:08:11
We have them so infrequently that I'd be fine without it. 00:08:14
I would. 00:08:17
Advocate for not. 00:08:19
If we need one. 00:08:23
To push the like, just have the closed session in two weeks when you can properly notice it. 00:08:25
Rather than uh. 00:08:30
Kind of moving forward without having a conversation that should have been had, but. 00:08:31
You mean like have us know beforehand? 00:08:35
Yes, if we like get into a discussion, it's like, oh, we need a closed session on this. 00:08:39
That we don't just say, well, we didn't notice it, so let's just pass it and then. 00:08:43
Not have the closed session. 00:08:47
Instead, just continue it two weeks, have the closed session, then discuss it, make the decision I don't think we run into. 00:08:48
Issues that are urgent enough. 00:08:54
We've ever really needed to add to that too. I think a lot of the times that. 00:08:56
That I have had closed sessions. In these meetings, it's usually something that is known ahead of time. It's an issue that. 00:09:00
You know is is known to be addressed. 00:09:07
I think. 00:09:09
That would be perfectly fine if you if the if the Council would prefer that we. 00:09:11
Just notice them as needed. That's. 00:09:16
Perfectly fine too. 00:09:19
At the end of the day, understanding. 00:09:21
I'd say whatever, whatever whoever's preparing the agenda wants to do. 00:09:23
That's great. 00:09:27
I know the mayor will, certainly. 00:09:28
Well, he's likely to go along with what we advise him to do. 00:09:30
So any. 00:09:34
Jacob, you have more comments. It's all I have been. 00:09:37
It's a work session, so we can't vote, right? 00:09:40
Right. But I would say though too, I mean it's more of an administrative. 00:09:42
Action. If the Council thinks that's what you would like to have me do, then I can start doing that moving forward. 00:09:48
No, I think putting it on as needed. 00:09:54
I think that's approved. 00:09:56
So I think the sense of the Council is we probably should do. 00:09:58
Do that. And so we've revised the mayor when he returns at. 00:10:01
That that's what we'd like to do and we'll. 00:10:05
See if he wants to go forward that way. All right, yeah, I'm sure he'll probably direct me to do that then next week. So. 00:10:08
Yeah. All right. 00:10:13
Thank you. 00:10:14
Appreciate that. 00:10:15
Are we going to do that for other agenda items like work sessions and? 00:10:16
Committee reports and stuff like that as well. 00:10:20
That might be helpful to. 00:10:23
Include those just. 00:10:24
If we're going to. 00:10:25
Like I see the section for committee reports, but we don't have any so. 00:10:27
You might as well. 00:10:30
Take those out unless the formatting is going to be difficult on that. 00:10:31
I think for. 00:10:33
Reports you leave it blank. 00:10:35
Because that was something that things are happening and. 00:10:37
You know, I had a meeting here. I had a meeting there. 00:10:40
I think that's a little bit different because it's just. 00:10:42
Disclosing things in a public meeting. 00:10:44
But I think like for work session I think you put none. 00:10:47
You know, so it's like clear, like. 00:10:51
Just so people know, there are none, you know? Yeah. Same with appointments like clean it up. 00:10:52
But then like on. 00:10:57
Council reports. 00:10:58
I don't know. 00:11:01
Kind of as needed. 00:11:02
Those are usually ad hoc. 00:11:03
Yeah, they're kind of ad hoc, like hey, I. 00:11:05
I've had this meeting and I think I need to. 00:11:06
Tell everyone that this meeting happened, you know, 'cause we're not allowed to have meetings. 00:11:08
Good comment. 00:11:16
OK, we'll advise the mayor such and it's. 00:11:17
Let's go ahead and move on then. 00:11:20
Do public comment. I'll be as next. 00:11:23
And so we'd like to invite those who would like to make a comment to the. 00:11:25
Council pleased to. 00:11:29
Come up and take the time you'd like and then address. 00:11:30
We, like you, address things hopefully there aren't on the. 00:11:34
Agenda. 00:11:36
But. 00:11:38
But whatever comedy feels appropriate, please. 00:11:39
Let us know. 00:11:42
Time limit. 00:11:45
OK, great. Thank you. 00:11:50
Darlene Price. 00:11:53
Just kind of to piggyback on what you are discussing back and forth. 00:11:55
As a member of the community, I would appreciate if that were at the end of the. 00:11:59
Think so that we're not sitting here while you are discussing something for hours perhaps. 00:12:04
And then come back. So either put it at the front. 00:12:09
And start the meeting at 6:30. 00:12:12
Or put it at the end. 00:12:15
So that's that's my $0.02 worth. 00:12:17
OK. 00:12:20
OK. 00:12:25
We had some others that wanted to speak as well. 00:12:27
Yeah, please. 00:12:31
Sarah Cameron. 00:12:37
Parkside. 00:12:39
So a few things. 00:12:42
On here. 00:12:43
I was made aware of. 00:12:45
That need to be. 00:12:49
Put on public record. 00:12:51
So you guys are starting? 00:12:54
With a bang. 00:12:57
As as we've been told online that nobody was fired, I'm just curious. 00:13:01
Where's Maria? 00:13:07
Where's cash? 00:13:09
Where's Morgan? Where's? 00:13:10
Secondly. 00:13:14
You guys have changed. 00:13:15
You guys have changed a lot of the policy. 00:13:18
And procedures that we had in. 00:13:20
Place that were designed to keep. 00:13:22
Staff protected and. 00:13:24
So I'm just going to read. 00:13:29
A summary of. 00:13:32
Yeah, some different citizens who are watching. 00:13:34
A power grab occurs when authority is pulled into fewer hands. 00:13:37
Safeguards are removed and the separation of power collapses without increasing accountability. 00:13:40
This new Title 3. 00:13:45
Amendments. 00:13:47
Does all of that. 00:13:48
The revisions to title. 00:13:49
3 Centralized authority by assigning all of you. 00:13:51
The role of chief administrative officer in different sections, blurring the lines of responsibility and eliminating. 00:13:54
The clear chain of command and separation of government. 00:14:01
You also gave yourselves appeal powers again and removed due process. 00:14:04
An unlimited legislature. 00:14:08
Not good for governance. 00:14:10
Governance. 00:14:11
When everyone is effectively the CEO, an appeal officer and legislator, no one is clearly accountable. 00:14:12
These changes bypass structures designed to create checks and balances and collapse the separation between policy administration. 00:14:19
Rather than increasing accountability. 00:14:26
You've reduced it. 00:14:28
The revisions also remove basic employee protections, including due process. 00:14:29
Protection from coercion. 00:14:34
Which, you know, is illegal in Utah. 00:14:35
And the ability to appeal changes to job duties, transfers and apparently legislative decisions regarding lower pay. 00:14:38
That creates legal risk and instability for city services. 00:14:44
What is happening now is a real power grab and it puts our city at risk. 00:14:48
Guardrails are being removed. 00:14:52
Limits on power weakened and political control expanded over daily operations. 00:14:54
The budget and Title 3 changes expand. Government costs destabilize. 00:14:59
Services and eliminate professional structures that keep government smaller and safer by. 00:15:03
Making it predictable, lawful and boring. 00:15:09
Removing these structures exposes the city to lawsuits and higher costs. 00:15:12
Rules of separation. 00:15:16
Rules, separation of powers and fair process protect taxpayers. 00:15:17
The prior code did that. 00:15:22
This new code removes these protections when guardrails disappear power. 00:15:24
Concentrates. Retaliation becomes easier and government becomes more expensive. 00:15:28
Chaotic and risky. 00:15:33
Local control works only when the mayor, manager and council each have defined. 00:15:34
Rolls and limits. 00:15:39
Decisions following clear rules and people treated fairly. 00:15:41
Strong leadership is not. 00:15:45
Unlimited power. 00:15:46
Retroactive rule changing. 00:15:47
Rule changes. 00:15:49
Or firing stuff without due process. 00:15:50
Good outcomes come from strong systems. 00:15:53
Not from who holds power. 00:15:55
That is what. 00:15:57
The original code protected. 00:15:58
And that is what is being taken away. 00:16:00
So redlined just this morning. 00:16:02
The protection from undue influence. 00:16:05
City staff this. 00:16:08
This is. 00:16:09
What the original code said. 00:16:10
City staff shall be protected from undue pressure. 00:16:12
Or influence in the performance of their duties. 00:16:14
Any attempts by council members to coerce or unduly influence staff decisions or actions. 00:16:17
That contrarying. 00:16:22
Professional standards cities. 00:16:23
City policies or ethical guidelines? 00:16:25
Would be subject to review and possible action by the City Council. 00:16:28
Or appropriate. 00:16:32
Oversight body. 00:16:33
The city manager shall establish A confidential process for staff to report concerns about inappropriate interactions or 00:16:34
directives from council members ensuing. 00:16:39
These concerns can be addressed without fear. 00:16:44
Or retaliation. 00:16:47
No way is. 00:16:49
This has been redlined and is stricken from our code. 00:16:50
In no way is this good governance or ethical in nature. 00:16:54
Your job is legislative. 00:16:57
Legislative. 00:16:58
Not to be directors. 00:16:59
Or the other Cao. 00:17:01
It is to treat people with respect, not coercion. 00:17:02
And support the healthy grievance process. 00:17:05
It makes me think you are trying to remove the law. 00:17:08
That would have caused you. 00:17:10
That would have caused you to protect the grievances submitted. 00:17:11
I also have a serious concern. 00:17:16
For the fact that when I was sitting up in that chair. 00:17:18
You had. 00:17:21
Jake especially. 00:17:24
A big problem with. 00:17:26
With a new pump truck. 00:17:28
That was coming. 00:17:29
At the cost of. 00:17:31
I think we discovered after the turn in it would have been 460,000. 00:17:32
You have almost half $1,000,000 in budget amendments here to cover. 00:17:37
The salaries of the severances that have been paid half a million. 00:17:41
You've only been sitting up here for two weeks. 00:17:45
And half a million a budget adjudgment so you can have people that align with you politically. 00:17:47
That's a huge problem in my site. 00:17:53
So that's all I have to say. 00:17:55
Thank you for your comment. 00:17:59
Chip Price, Providence. 00:18:03
I just want to stand up here and also have. 00:18:06
Publicly, on the record that elections have consequences. 00:18:08
And when people stand up and make their votes heard. 00:18:12
Then the action of those individuals who are elected. 00:18:16
To follow through with the things that they're asking them to do. 00:18:19
The people who did not vote for those people, it is fine for them to be in a disagreement with that. 00:18:23
But those people who actually had power to sit in the chairs and make those decisions? 00:18:28
Are the people sitting here in this council? 00:18:34
I have been at every single City Council since you guys have been in office. 00:18:36
And. 00:18:41
I want you to say that. 00:18:41
That the things that you guys have stood for and the things that you ran on. 00:18:44
Those are the things that you guys are putting in and acting into place. 00:18:51
And so. 00:18:54
Elections do have consequences, and if code is changed, that's the nature of your business. 00:18:55
Change code. 00:19:01
Reform Government. 00:19:03
And put it on a different trajectory. 00:19:04
Not everybody's going to like that. 00:19:06
And I think that's fine. 00:19:08
Karen Cornelius Villas. 00:19:27
First of all I want to thank you. 00:19:29
For last. 00:19:31
Week's meeting. 00:19:32
Where we talked about involving the public more. 00:19:33
With the things that take place in Vineyard on allowing the public and the citizens. 00:19:37
To volunteer and create. 00:19:42
More of a sense of community than having everything. 00:19:44
Done through the City Hall. Not that they've done a bad job. 00:19:47
That's not what I'm saying at all. 00:19:51
But I think there's some really fun and exciting things that we can bring out, bring about as a result of that. 00:19:52
I also would like to piggyback on what ship just said elections do have consequences. 00:19:59
I would also like to bring up. 00:20:05
On the front page of our agenda every week. 00:20:09
We read whenever raising comments. 00:20:12
Whenever making comments. 00:20:15
Whether during public comment period or public hearing. 00:20:17
Or an informal basis. Citizens are expected to address the issue. 00:20:21
And not address an individual. 00:20:26
We have someone in the audience. 00:20:28
That both times she has addressed the Council. 00:20:30
She has. 00:20:33
Dictated her remarks. 00:20:35
To one particular council member. 00:20:37
Always in a condemning fashion. 00:20:40
And she? 00:20:43
Was one of those who voted in. 00:20:44
This very statement that we find on here. 00:20:46
And I think it's important. 00:20:49
That we. 00:20:51
Have that respect. 00:20:52
That is found in that code of conduct. 00:20:54
That was put together. 00:20:57
By our previous council. 00:20:59
Hopefully. 00:21:01
We will make some changes because it doesn't seem to be working. 00:21:02
I would also like to. 00:21:06
Address the fact. 00:21:08
That there has been a meeting held regarding grandma. 00:21:09
In Salt Lake. 00:21:14
Regarding one of our current Council members. 00:21:16
Who was never. 00:21:19
Told about this meeting, never given a chance to represent himself. 00:21:21
Either by. 00:21:26
The recorder. 00:21:28
The assistant. 00:21:29
Or the formal former councilperson. 00:21:31
Who brought these charges against them? 00:21:34
So for someone to stand up here and say we need transparency, we need to be open, we need to be honest in government. 00:21:37
I think this was really a poor. 00:21:43
Poor, poor showing of how we are open. 00:21:45
With the rights of the. 00:21:51
Government documents. 00:21:54
So that's what I would like to share today, but I appreciate what you guys are doing. 00:21:56
To bring about the change. 00:22:02
That we, the citizens of Vineyard. 00:22:04
Voted for. Thank you. 00:22:07
Thank you. 00:22:10
Tim Blackburn, Sleepy Ridge. 00:22:18
Do I look sleepy? 00:22:20
I'll just sleep on the Ridge. 00:22:22
It is a pleasure to be here with you tonight and I would just encourage you, council members. 00:22:24
To speak up. 00:22:28
I don't know if it's just my age. 00:22:30
But I'm having a hard time hearing some of your comments. 00:22:32
So when you do address things, talk among yourselves. It's more than just talking among yourselves. We try to hear you too. So. 00:22:35
Please speak up. 00:22:43
So that we can. 00:22:44
Understand you as well. 00:22:45
The two points that I would like to bring up tonight. 00:22:46
Several years ago. 00:22:50
It was brought to our attention, my attention. 00:22:53
That. 00:22:56
In order to be. 00:22:57
In order to die. 00:22:59
In Vineyard. 00:23:00
And be buried. 00:23:02
In some place close by. 00:23:03
The only cemeteries we had were in. 00:23:05
Provo, Aurum. 00:23:08
Pleasant Grove. 00:23:10
American Fork. 00:23:11
And so on. 00:23:12
And I don't know if you know or not. 00:23:13
But in order for those of us in Vineyard to be buried in one of those cemeteries. 00:23:16
It costs nearly twice as much as it does a resident of those cities. 00:23:20
Because we don't pay taxes into those cities. 00:23:25
So several years ago. 00:23:28
The Vineyard Heritage Foundation put together a project and presented it to the City Council. 00:23:30
And we did some research on what would it take to. 00:23:36
To create a cemetery in Vineyard. 00:23:39
Because we like to promote this city as being from birth to grave. 00:23:42
You know, start and end here, buy and keep, keep going up. We've had quite a few deaths in Vineyard. 00:23:46
Over the last. 00:23:53
Seven or eight years, some very small, some older individuals. 00:23:54
They would have all loved. 00:23:58
To be buried in Vineyard. 00:23:59
So at that time, several years ago, we made a proposal that some land be set aside. 00:24:01
For the creation of a. 00:24:07
Cemetery and vineyard we don't need a lot of our research showed that we don't need much land. 00:24:09
About two acres. 00:24:14
Is about it. 00:24:15
To be able to bury a lot of people. 00:24:16
So the the last City Council. 00:24:19
Kind of talked about it. 00:24:22
And I think maybe even looked at a few parcels around. 00:24:24
But I'm just saying this to the new City Council. 00:24:28
As a way to. 00:24:32
Let's continue that movement forward. 00:24:33
And let's see if we can't identify a parcel of land that could be used for a vineyard cemetery. 00:24:35
Whatever it's going to be called. 00:24:42
That's point #1. 00:24:43
Second, also looking to the future. 00:24:45
We need a post office. 00:24:48
And Vineyard. 00:24:49
Have you ever been to a little community in in Utah? 00:24:50
500 people. 600 people. 00:24:54
They have post offices. 00:24:56
We have nearly. 00:24:58
20,000 moving in that direction. 00:24:59
And we're still using the Orem post office. 00:25:01
It seems to me that we should be able. 00:25:04
To come up with her own post office. 00:25:06
It doesn't cost the city money. 00:25:09
But what it does take is your active support to our federal delegations, our senators and representatives, because they're the 00:25:11
ones that are going to ultimately have to push this through because it's a presidentially. 00:25:17
Created. 00:25:23
Thing in our community. 00:25:24
So it doesn't cost us money to do. 00:25:26
But it would be great to have. 00:25:28
In our community. 00:25:30
Thank you very much. 00:25:31
Thank you. 00:25:33
Any other comments? 00:25:36
All right, I'd like to. 00:25:41
Close public comments, right? 00:25:43
I have a public comment as a citizen, but are you gonna make me walk up there? Because I'd rather face that way. 00:25:45
I think you can go ahead and make it here, OK. 00:25:50
Just because I. 00:25:53
I think it's important to be transparent and. 00:25:55
State your name. My name is Jake Holdaway. 00:26:01
Resident of Vineyard. 00:26:03
I'd like to talk to the Vineyard staff. 00:26:08
But also to the citizens. 00:26:10
I'm not going to use names. I know names have been employees have been brought out. 00:26:13
So I'll keep those confidential, but I want to share an update to our employees and to the citizens. 00:26:17
To be honest with you, Vineyard is extremely blessed to have the many hard working staff that we do. 00:26:23
I've had about 8 reach out to me. 00:26:29
And say thank you. 00:26:32
This past week. 00:26:34
For protecting them and for thanking them. 00:26:35
Or. 00:26:39
For everything that Mayor Stratton is doing, and that's been a. 00:26:40
I've never had that. 00:26:44
My 2 years of service. 00:26:45
I just want to say their dedication, professionalism and service to our community. 00:26:47
Is. 00:26:52
100% deserved. 00:26:52
And the sincere recognition for their gratitude because their calls were cool. 00:26:56
I'd love to have a better relationship as. 00:27:01
As in the last two years. 00:27:03
There were policies in place where. 00:27:04
That prohibited that and I'm excited to be able to work more. 00:27:07
In the past couple weeks. 00:27:11
There was a false claim by our previous city attorney that. 00:27:14
And a few citizens online that amplified false accusations. 00:27:17
That many in city employees had been fired within 24 or 48 hours. 00:27:22
And that there were mass layoffs that were going to happen. 00:27:26
Nobody to date. 00:27:30
Has been fired. 00:27:31
Yeah, because of this false information from. 00:27:33
Prominent leader in the city as our attorney many. 00:27:36
Really good, loyal employees. 00:27:40
Would feel bad. 00:27:42
It would be a very. 00:27:44
Troubling situation to feel like hey, I'm going to lose my job, right? 00:27:45
People that we care about. 00:27:51
We're scared and unnecessarily put in. 00:27:52
To uncomfortable situations. 00:27:55
For context, this past year our city experienced a very meaningful election season. 00:27:58
As Chip mentioned, and voters were presented with two very distinct approaches for the future of the city. 00:28:05
And obviously the citizens made those priorities clear. 00:28:12
I want to defend Mayor Stratton. 00:28:15
And our new City Council when elected on a platform of greater transparency. 00:28:18
In many processes. 00:28:23
Lower taxes and a smaller, efficient government. 00:28:25
A smaller sometimes means that. 00:28:28
You're making cuts. 00:28:30
To people. 00:28:31
And they really are people. 00:28:32
And. 00:28:37
I can't tell you how. 00:28:38
Responsible and serious and committed to carrying out thoughtful and respectful conversations. 00:28:40
When Mayor Stratton would call me, it was tough. 00:28:47
And as part of any transition in in strong leadership, it is normal. 00:28:50
And best practice for a mayor and council to review every department head. 00:28:55
See how their departments. 00:29:00
Are organized. 00:29:02
And how those leaderships are. 00:29:04
Align with the direct. 00:29:05
The direction that the mayor supported. 00:29:08
Now the mayor does not did not have the authority to make any leadership changes quickly. 00:29:11
So there was nobody that was fired. 00:29:16
But his approach was very Christlike and centered. 00:29:19
Instead, Mayor Stratton was kind, careful, private and respectful. He has taken time to meet. 00:29:23
With us as a City Council to hear our priorities as being elected, that never happened. 00:29:30
When I was elected. 00:29:36
For him to sit down with each one of us. 00:29:38
Meant a lot to me. 00:29:40
He included. 00:29:43
After those conversations, he met individually with department heads to share that vision, to listen, to learn, and to share his 00:29:44
vision for the next chapter of Vineyard. 00:29:49
He included the human resources. 00:29:54
Director to ensure best practices and to record and make sure. 00:29:57
Things were set straight. 00:30:01
I want to apologize for our human resource director because she was in those meetings. 00:30:04
She was accused that there were mass firings and I called her immediately and she's like nobody's been fired. 00:30:08
Two witnesses in the same meetings. 00:30:14
It can be uncomfortable. 00:30:18
Now I recognize. 00:30:21
And I hope we all can recognize that this kind of direct communication. 00:30:24
During a political transition can feel very personal. 00:30:29
And uncertain, especially for employees that we love. 00:30:34
And who are dedicated many years to our city. 00:30:38
As we talk to him, it's a tough situation. 00:30:41
So. 00:30:43
Balancing transparency and. 00:30:44
Personal conversation. 00:30:46
Stations are tough. 00:30:48
But. 00:30:52
When asked to reapply. 00:30:55
Or to. 00:30:58
Approach the Council. 00:30:59
Of reapplying. 00:31:02
Even if they are amazing, considering employees, I can understand how that can feel. 00:31:04
Difficult like why would I need to reapply? 00:31:08
And it's extremely unfortunate. 00:31:13
To be honest with you. 00:31:15
That some of those personal conversations. 00:31:17
Intended to be handled and an individual respectful and helping them professionally. 00:31:21
Were shared. 00:31:27
In public, in ways that were incomplete. 00:31:28
Misleading. Untrue. 00:31:30
I made sure to verify this with the HR director. 00:31:34
This kind of misinformation has harmed public trust. 00:31:38
It makes our our other employees feel very insecure. 00:31:42
It damages the cities reputation. 00:31:46
And creates unnecessary stressful environment for all the rest of the employees that this doesn't affect, which are the vast 00:31:49
majority. 00:31:52
And candidly, when private conversations meant to help. 00:31:57
Those those employees are discussed and taken out of context and turned into false public narratives. 00:32:02
It actually reinforces the election results. 00:32:08
And why those difficult conversations need to happen in the first place? 00:32:11
It confirms. 00:32:17
That a very careful, direct and perversional approach that Mayor Stratton had taken is not only appropriate, but it was necessary. 00:32:18
Now. 00:32:28
It is never our intent of the Council to diminish anyone's contributions over the many years. 00:32:29
It's to ensure that the organization is aligned with the goals that residents voted for. 00:32:35
So changes are not a. 00:32:41
Direct reflection of their bad behavior or poor performance is just the direction that the city is going to go. 00:32:43
That they feel. 00:32:51
And so our intent is never to diminish anyone's contributions, especially for many great years of service. 00:32:52
It's just to ensure that the organization is aligned with the goals that residents voted for. 00:32:59
Top to bottom in the organization. 00:33:05
The one thing that we do want to mention? 00:33:09
Is that yes, the department heads serve at the will. 00:33:11
And the consent of the Council. 00:33:14
All of them. 00:33:17
Have always been welcome to reapply. 00:33:20
If they felt so. 00:33:22
But those difficult conversations or things that. 00:33:23
Didn't align were brought up with them. 00:33:26
I believe the mayor and the council's goals can be preserved while still treating employees with dignity, fairness and gratitude. 00:33:31
And I've thought about this. 00:33:39
If those individual employees would like to be a part of public record, then that conversation could happen. But secondhand 00:33:40
stories coming up. 00:33:44
We don't know if their intent and if they want to be thrown out publicly. 00:33:48
So unless they're here. 00:33:52
I don't know if that should be discussed here. 00:33:54
If that makes sense. That's why I'm not using names, but it's hard to balance transparency. 00:33:56
With also. 00:34:01
You know the the privacy of an individual citizen. 00:34:03
The last thing I want to say is. 00:34:07
Vineyard employees matter. 00:34:11
I've met with Stephanie, our HR director, who is incredible. 00:34:15
I apologize for the incomplete information that is shared on social media that hurt the rest of our staff. 00:34:20
The impact that that might have had on your families. 00:34:28
Because your work matters. 00:34:31
And as we move forward, our goal is to lead with professionalism. 00:34:33
Compassion and respect for both the people who serve our city and the residents that elected us. 00:34:38
And for the vast majority of the hard working staff of Vineyard, I just want to say, and I know the mayor believes it, thank you. 00:34:44
I believe and trust. 00:34:51
Mayor Stratton. 00:34:53
Many people could say, oh, just. 00:34:55
Bring them out and vote and get rid of them. 00:34:57
He took the time over a very long period to have difficult conversations. 00:34:59
And that type of respect. So I look forward to serving what this is again. 00:35:03
That's my public comment. 00:35:08
Thank you. 00:35:11
Let's close public comments then. 00:35:13
And then I. 00:35:15
I want to go over a couple of responses to the comments I wanted to say to. 00:35:17
Miss Price, who just left a minute ago. Sorry. 00:35:21
We will advise the mayor that the. 00:35:24
Closed sessions, when we have them, should go. 00:35:27
At the end of the meeting. 00:35:30
So as not to not to keep the people here longer than they need to be. 00:35:31
Sarah Cameron has also left now. But I wanted to, I wanted to tell her that. 00:35:36
She mentioned various staff people weren't here tonight. 00:35:41
And normally would be here. 00:35:44
And they've chosen. 00:35:45
To not come for their own reasons. They they have not been fired, they are still. 00:35:48
You know, they're still employed here, they still have jobs and so. 00:35:52
That's. 00:35:55
I understand there's a lot of changes happening and they may not be happy with all of them. 00:35:57
But they are still. 00:36:01
You know, they could have been here if they wanted to. 00:36:04
So that was so that's that. 00:36:06
As far as safeguards being removed in the different in the government. 00:36:09
In the government, what the changes we're making tonight? 00:36:13
We will be talking at a great deal. 00:36:16
The great length about the changes we want to make to the to Title 2 and title three of our code, which deals with the powers of 00:36:19
the of the Mayor and the Council. 00:36:23
And there there have been last minute changes. 00:36:27
Couple times today. 00:36:31
So we expect that there'll be more as we talk about them. 00:36:32
So that's not all. 00:36:36
All done. 00:36:37
As far as safeguards being removed, I would I would recommend that. 00:36:38
That we remember. 00:36:42
That all, all authority from from us for a city comes from the state and they have vested it in the City Council. 00:36:43
And the City Council vests it where they choose. 00:36:50
And at least that's my understanding and our attorney will correct me if I'm wrong about that. 00:36:53
Anyway, and so that's. 00:36:59
But but, but we'll have that discussion as we go on. 00:37:00
And please take notes. And so if you have any questions about that, let us know about it afterwards or. 00:37:03
I'm prepared next time with comments either way. 00:37:10
There's I think. 00:37:16
Pretty much. That's almost sort of summarizes her things. 00:37:18
Chip, thank you. Elections do have consequences and we're trying to make them good ones. 00:37:21
He's gone also. Sorry. 00:37:24
Karen. 00:37:26
We try to, we're going to try to live up to the code of conduct. 00:37:30
We will. We'll try to do that. Thank you. 00:37:33
And as far and we'll also be learning more about grammar laws and how to observe them. And we promise to do that. 00:37:36
Tim, thank you for the reminder about the cemetery. We do want to pursue that. 00:37:44
And that's something we can have conversations about, I think, the Vineyard Heritage Foundation. 00:37:48
Might be able to help us with that. 00:37:53
So let's keep that in the forefront so we can. 00:37:55
So you make that happen. 00:37:57
And also. 00:38:01
Great idea, let's pursue that too. 00:38:02
And then? 00:38:05
And Jake, thank you very much for the for going over the. 00:38:06
The situation with the employees, I just want to say that all the people who work for the City of Vineyard, we really appreciate 00:38:09
all the work you've done and all you're doing now. 00:38:14
And we want you to understand that we're doing our best to make this transition happen as smoothly as we can. 00:38:18
Unfortunately, it's we've run to some several roadblocks. 00:38:24
We're trying to work through those in the most. 00:38:27
Well, in the most gracious way, we can't. 00:38:31
And and so we'll continue to do that. 00:38:33
Anyway, but thank you very much for your comments and then we'll. 00:38:36
And if you have anything else, let us know afterwards please. 00:38:39
OK, next on the agenda. 00:38:43
Let's see next page. 00:38:46
OK, so. 00:38:51
Reports. 00:38:52
Can I? Are you going, Ezra? 00:38:54
I was No, you're good. 00:38:57
So any reports or yeah can I share please? I have one. 00:38:59
Yeah, go ahead, Parker, you're on. 00:39:02
OK, two that I wanted to bring up. 00:39:05
Previously or earlier in the week? 00:39:09
And Taylor reached out to me about getting a post office for Vineyard. 00:39:11
I just wanted to share I had reached out to the. 00:39:16
USPS and asked about that process. 00:39:19
They notified me that it starts with the city and the City Council. 00:39:22
And that we would need to designate land and have a land or a building assigned for a post office to take it to them to start that 00:39:26
process. 00:39:30
That's about as far as I've gotten in understanding how that process goes, but it starts with us, not with. 00:39:36
The USPS, not with the. 00:39:41
Federal government. 00:39:42
It was there and then. 00:39:44
After our conversation last week on code enforcement. 00:39:46
Or sorry on parking. 00:39:49
The most prevalent? 00:39:52
Comments that I've received has been about cities code enforcement. 00:39:53
Even. 00:39:59
David Pierce, who's here with us tonight, had brought up that that's. 00:40:00
A large contributing factor to parking issues in the city. 00:40:03
To try and get a better understanding of that, I reached out to. 00:40:09
Maria, she's listed as the code enforcement. 00:40:12
Officer on the. 00:40:15
City's website. 00:40:17
I haven't been able to get a response from her yet, so I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this, but Eric, could you just. 00:40:18
Make sure that I get an e-mail back from her eventually that has. 00:40:24
What I was asking for specifically is the process. 00:40:28
That code enforcement goes through right now, so. 00:40:31
What does it look like from receiving a complaint? 00:40:34
Through uh. 00:40:36
Does the city actually have? 00:40:38
A mechanism for fines or fees, or some kind of enforcement. 00:40:40
Does the Sheriff's Department ever have to get involved with that? I just don't understand the process well enough to. 00:40:44
Make an informed or educated decision. When it comes to deliberating, you know the best. 00:40:50
Way to proceed with that. So I'd like to understand that process more. 00:40:55
Thank you. That's what I had. 00:40:59
I have two things I. 00:41:03
I had a conversation with Seth that the state auditors office about his desire to come and. 00:41:07
Clear up some confusion about grandma. 00:41:13
Which is awesome, I've been wanting this for quite some time. 00:41:16
And a lot of things have happened in the past couple years. 00:41:19
Where things have been misconstrued about their office and he said I would like to come and. 00:41:22
Set the record straight and so. 00:41:28
If it's OK with the council, he would like to come not this Tuesday, but the following Tuesday. 00:41:30
A week from today. 00:41:35
Unless there's not a council meeting. So in two weeks. 00:41:38
We'll have to check the schedule, OK. 00:41:40
So yeah, the next City Council meeting, but it went really well. He has some issues with. 00:41:42
The way in which our previous city attorney. 00:41:50
Interpreted quite a few things and so if we have any questions and I added some of the. 00:41:52
Public comments. 00:41:58
From last that they said that they would. 00:41:59
Be more than willing to address. 00:42:01
Also. 00:42:03
To report back, David Larae and I met with the. 00:42:04
Other auditor. 00:42:08
Of. 00:42:09
Chris. 00:42:09
Of our independent auditor. 00:42:11
For two hours, 3 hours, 2 1/2 hours. 00:42:14
With the mayor. 00:42:17
I would I would describe it as extremely productive. This is the audit of the RDA. 00:42:18
He will based off of his findings. 00:42:25
He did not. 00:42:28
We were able to give him some context of history. 00:42:29
Some. 00:42:33
Context. 00:42:34
And documents and working with. 00:42:36
Our current city attorney. 00:42:38
He will be. 00:42:41
We felt that we would want to bring it to you guys to. 00:42:42
Have add him to. 00:42:46
An agenda I believe it was for this coming Tuesday as well as a week from today. So those two, but. 00:42:48
If we have to move it to the next two. 00:42:53
There's there's a lot of things that. 00:42:58
In the initial conversation. 00:43:01
It looked like there will need to be more digging and and and and another audit. 00:43:03
I just wanted to prepare the Council for that, in terms of what things. 00:43:08
He considered. 00:43:12
To look at, he's putting together a price. 00:43:14
Proposal of what that is and it would change. 00:43:17
In in scope and he's going to. 00:43:20
Come back and present that. 00:43:22
To us. 00:43:23
So I would advise. 00:43:24
Maybe meeting with him? 00:43:26
I don't think he's ready, but individually meeting and understanding a little bit more on that. 00:43:28
And then be ready. 00:43:33
For the public comment. 00:43:34
Period for the citizens to see that presentation. 00:43:36
OK, thanks. 00:43:40
Jacob. 00:43:41
Nothing. OK. 00:43:42
Ezra. 00:43:43
Just the railroad has received its 10%. 00:43:46
Plan. 00:43:51
We're excited about that moving forward. They've given us permission to move on to the 25% design. 00:43:53
Design plans. So this is for the project removing the rail spur that's separating us between. 00:43:58
Vineyard Norm right now, so. 00:44:04
Excited to see that project hit a substantial milestone there and continue to move forward. 00:44:06
So what are next steps? 00:44:10
Help us understand a little more of their next steps after that. So we're going to move from the 10% designs to the 25% designs 00:44:11
and then from there it's. 00:44:15
50 and then 75 it's it's a long. 00:44:19
Planning and design process. Since it's small federal, it's just a matter of what it takes to remove the rails or and. 00:44:22
Level the Lander, that sort of thing. You're yeah, basically. So we've got. 00:44:28
The 10% design, which is. 00:44:33
Somewhat conceptual at this point. I mean, it's a real design it has. 00:44:35
Actual umm. 00:44:40
Engineering behind it. 00:44:41
And so there's a next step to just further that and. 00:44:43
Added. 00:44:46
Additional. 00:44:47
Calculations and more specifics. And so it'll keep going down that road for. 00:44:48
Thank you. That's. 00:44:53
That's way cool. I mean, I. 00:44:54
We need that a big way. 00:44:56
Eric, you. 00:45:00
Comment just one additional point to that. Thanks for bringing that up that that was exciting. Getting to the 10% might not sound 00:45:01
like a lot, but that's a. 00:45:04
Huge hurdle along with the 10% approval from. 00:45:09
UPR. 00:45:12
Will come a memorandum of understanding. 00:45:13
That. 00:45:16
Sets all of our expectations of what that rail removal and realignment. 00:45:17
Will look like. 00:45:22
And opens the door for us to seek federal funding. 00:45:23
State funding. 00:45:27
For the. 00:45:28
Construction side of that project, right now we have funding for the. 00:45:29
Full design and environmental. 00:45:33
Permitting of that project. 00:45:37
But we'll need to round up. 00:45:39
A substantial amount of funding for. 00:45:41
The construction. 00:45:44
Of the new rail and the removal of the. 00:45:45
Previous rail. So this is a huge step and really kind of opens the door for us to get those. 00:45:47
Funds aligned through. 00:45:53
Federal grants, federal appropriations, and state appropriations as well. 00:45:55
That's great. I've been hearing about this project for at least the last 12 years. 00:46:00
It's nice to see you moving. 00:46:04
Cool. OK. And I just wanted to say that I was. 00:46:07
We had an excellent meeting with the with the RDA subcommittee. 00:46:10
And we're. 00:46:14
We will be we, I received. 00:46:15
Today, a bid from Chris Harding, the auditor. And so we'll be. 00:46:17
Pursuing, getting funding for that and then pursuing with. 00:46:21
Proceeding with that. 00:46:25
So that's that's in process. 00:46:26
Can I get a report on just the staffing subcommittee too? 00:46:29
Will we sub? 00:46:32
Review 1:00 We we have, we met with the mayor and we've and we've. 00:46:35
And he's asked us basically to let him meet with people with HR and sort of feel that that process out and so. 00:46:39
We've we. 00:46:46
Jacob and I are working on a. 00:46:48
On a mission statement, mission statement for the city, basically so we can so people who apply will know what their you know 00:46:50
what? 00:46:54
What they're applying for and what they're. 00:46:57
Sort of getting into. 00:46:59
And then and also if we wanted also we talked. 00:47:00
We've talked about process. 00:47:04
The what the interview process would look like like. 00:47:05
You know, step one, Step 2 and you know. 00:47:08
That kind of thing. 00:47:10
So that's. 00:47:11
That's just a conceptual thing. 00:47:13
That's where we are with it. 00:47:15
There, that's OK. 00:47:18
Cool. 00:47:19
Right, so that's those are the Council. 00:47:20
Reports. 00:47:24
Any staff or committee reports? 00:47:25
Merrick, none for today. Thank you. OK. 00:47:29
Cool. 00:47:34
OK, so we have a consent item. 00:47:35
We have the minutes from the January 14th, 2026 Council meeting. 00:47:36
I would accept. 00:47:42
I move to approve the consent items as presented. 00:47:44
2nd. 00:47:48
OK. Firstly, Parker, second by. 00:47:50
By Jacob. 00:47:52
Would do we have? 00:47:53
Wood, sorry. 00:47:55
And this is just an up or down vote, correct Tony? 00:47:58
That's correct. 00:48:01
OK, all in favor say aye. Any opposed? 00:48:02
Unanimously approved. 00:48:06
OK, there are no appointments or removals. 00:48:08
For our business items, our first one is the Municipal Code Title 2 and Title 3 amendments, discussion and actions. We're going to 00:48:11
invite our City Attorney, Jesse Riddle to. 00:48:15
Come forward and lead us in a discussion. 00:48:20
Through that and and. 00:48:22
Should be a lively discussion. 00:48:25
Can I share a context? 00:48:28
With the city real quick. 00:48:29
So. 00:48:31
You may recall that we. 00:48:32
In the previous election had voted to change our form of city government. 00:48:36
And the. 00:48:41
Changes to our city code now. 00:48:43
That we're going to be discussing are largely in. 00:48:45
Correlation to that we're moving to A6 member that's. 00:48:48
The five councils and the mayor. The mayor is. 00:48:52
Predominantly a non voting member. 00:48:54
And so the way that this has been. 00:48:57
Done to my understanding, is largely that we've drawn. 00:48:59
Best practices from the surrounding cities that run. 00:49:02
This form of government. 00:49:06
It's also I want to point out. 00:49:09
That I find it strange, but the. 00:49:11
That you get to control that like it's pretty. It's a pretty cool. 00:49:13
Opportunity, right for them to sit down and say where should the power and authority be held? 00:49:18
And that there is so many difference. There's what, 36,000 cities in America and you have to go to that city's code. 00:49:23
To kind of find out where that authority meets. And so I would invite citizens to look through. There's been a lot of. 00:49:31
Thoughtful. 00:49:37
Things that have been put in place. 00:49:38
What an awesome opportunity in America it is to have to sit down and go. 00:49:40
These are the ordinances that which we believe would govern us. 00:49:45
And they're different. 00:49:49
It was mentioned earlier tonight about. 00:49:50
The change in some of the powers. 00:49:53
Just for the understanding of the citizens. 00:49:55
Largely, this is a move to. 00:49:59
Make the mayor, the executive officer of the city and the council to be the legislative body and that's kind of the intent behind 00:50:02
the the move. So there's a clear separation of power with checks and balances. 00:50:07
So those very things that we heard about, complaints about, we're trying to address with this code. 00:50:14
So I'm sorry. 00:50:20
Please to give. 00:50:22
The members of the public. 00:50:23
Brief understanding of my experience I was hard by Orem, the city of Orem to be their legislative council and largely. 00:50:25
My responsibility was working on state code. 00:50:34
That represented what the City Council desired and also working on. 00:50:37
The city code. 00:50:42
So for example, you may remember. 00:50:44
Prop 2 was the school district split. 00:50:46
So the state code was not very clear and so I made a lot of. 00:50:51
Amendments to the Code and submitted to the Legislature. 00:50:56
And at that period most of my amendments were adopted by the legislature. 00:50:59
Just to clarify the state code and to make it. 00:51:05
More clear for a city or a group of cities to split. 00:51:08
After. 00:51:13
Alpine. 00:51:15
After the split was put on the ballot by the three and three districts were created. 00:51:17
I was contacted by the state legislature and say now what? 00:51:22
And. 00:51:25
Alpine, for example, could not bond. 00:51:26
And yet we know that they need schools out West and so. 00:51:29
I talked to. 00:51:33
City officials, the Legislature and said what? 00:51:34
Here's some of the issues I see. What do you see? 00:51:37
And. 00:51:40
And and literally I looked at every state code to see what happened. 00:51:41
As far as the school district split and there were probably about 5 codes that dealt with it a lot of. 00:51:46
States do it by county, so there's not a split, but there were some codes that were very. 00:51:53
Informative, for example. 00:52:00
I never thought of this, but who keeps the records of Alpine School District after they're dissolved? 00:52:02
And the answer. 00:52:08
Was the legislature gets to decide, but one code had said. 00:52:09
That the school district where this. 00:52:13
Offices of the school district are currently located of Alpine School District and that's what the legislature adopted. 00:52:16
The school district that had the most students they could have done the school district with the most value. 00:52:23
But they elected to keep it at the are where the data center. 00:52:29
Center was located which would be in Linden. 00:52:32
But they elected so. 00:52:35
Those are the things legislators have to decide. 00:52:36
With my changes tonight, I've spoken to every council member in the mayor. 00:52:40
To ask your opinions about which way you want to go. And I want the public to know I feel like Moses coming down the mountain with 00:52:45
the tablets. 00:52:48
I didn't create the tablets. I heard there were 15 commandments. Moses looked at the people and threw one down and it broke. 00:52:52
And now we were with 10, so I'm just Moses delivering. 00:52:59
What the council has asked me to deliver and every council member is made very. 00:53:03
Insightful comments. In fact, Councilmember Nair and I spoke this afternoon and I actually in my latest version that you haven't 00:53:09
gotten I've I've incorporated. 00:53:15
His changes because I think his changes were very relevant and were overlooked by me. 00:53:21
So. 00:53:26
The way the. 00:53:28
The government works in A6 member council. I think the mayor has no vote except in limited circumstances and those limited 00:53:28
circumstances if whenever you are absent and there's a tie, the mayor. 00:53:34
Has the right to vote. 00:53:39
Or if you grant to the mayor power. 00:53:41
And then you attempt to take it away. The mayor has a right to vote in. 00:53:44
That setting. 00:53:48
The way the. 00:53:49
The Utah law is structured is the City Council. 00:53:50
Is both the legislative? 00:53:54
Body and. 00:53:56
You administer through the city. 00:53:57
You have several options when you administer the city. You can have a city manager administer the city. 00:53:59
You can each do it. If you want to run the city, you can assign. 00:54:05
Everyone of you could be over a department. 00:54:09
And that's permitted in the code. 00:54:11
You can have the mayor run the city. 00:54:13
And those are the options that you have to administer the city. 00:54:16
And so when? 00:54:20
When you've heard. 00:54:22
That this is a. 00:54:23
Power grab. Actually, the legislature has given the legislature. 00:54:24
The body. 00:54:28
All the power. 00:54:30
And I actually put a kind of a comment on the side is once you give. 00:54:31
The power to. 00:54:36
The mayor. 00:54:38
Not necessarily the city manager, but the mayor is very difficult to get power back. 00:54:39
Because it has to be a unanimous vote of the council or it has to be a majority of the vote of the council with the mayor. 00:54:44
Willing to give the power back. So it's very difficult, so I would. 00:54:52
Admonish the council to be very deliberate and what powers you want to give to anybody that administers the city. But right now 00:54:57
you hold that power. 00:55:01
So the first couple pages are actually just changes that. 00:55:06
That are made regarding. 00:55:10
That we're making these changes in the code. 00:55:12
And when we really get into the code, we get into. 00:55:15
Section 202. 00:55:18
Which? 00:55:20
Talks about what? 00:55:21
Utah law says. 00:55:22
Just as. 00:55:24
A point of order. 00:55:25
Do we want to go page by page and stay in order? 00:55:26
As things come up. 00:55:28
Or do we want to just jump around? 00:55:30
I'd love to go page by page. I think there's enough here that. 00:55:32
It would be helpful to just. 00:55:35
Sequentially go through it, but that's the question anybody can we should go page by page otherwise we'll get lost and we'll 00:55:37
forget something jump around I got this I got that so. 00:55:40
Anyway, and I apologize for the formatting, I'm more worried about content than I am formatting because when we do the formatting, 00:55:45
it actually is done by the. 00:55:49
The company that we use that does the proper formatting so 202 point. 00:55:54
010 is actually what I just described is the form of government. 00:56:01
And where the authority lies in the government's, what I just described, that the City Council has authority. 00:56:05
And it tells what the mayor's authority is. And it tells. 00:56:10
How the mayor will vote. 00:56:15
Section B of that. 00:56:17
Is out of your code, so it actually stayed the same that if. 00:56:19
People want to run for elected office, they have to pay a $50 fee. 00:56:23
And they have to live within the city. Section C the mayor with advice. 00:56:27
Consent of the Council shall appoint. 00:56:31
All officers by the city by. 00:56:33
By the city ordinance or by statue and shall appoint all. 00:56:36
Committees authorized by ordinance or resolution. 00:56:40
So what number are we on? 00:56:43
We're on 20210, OK. 00:56:45
And I just finished C. 00:56:48
OK, and I added a section regarding the mayor and this is taken out of state code. 00:56:50
The mayor presides at the City Council, signs ordinances. 00:56:57
And by the way, my I gave you my copy and so I have a copy that's all blue marked so I don't know which is added. 00:57:01
So I'm just going to go over the code. 00:57:08
So the mayor represents the mayor, the city is in ceremonial events, delivers the annual budget. 00:57:11
Appoint. 00:57:17
The committee members and also the officers. 00:57:20
And you can you can decide whether the mayor appoints department heads. That's something the legislative body can. 00:57:23
Allow the mayor to do that are the. 00:57:31
Are. 00:57:33
Allow the mayor to make that decision. 00:57:34
What did we fall on? 00:57:37
Pardon me, what did our code fall on on that? 00:57:39
I'm sorry I. 00:57:42
I don't. 00:57:44
Think the code is. 00:57:44
Is has a statement on whether they and maybe Mr. Ellis can enlighten us. Do does the mayor appoint department heads? 00:57:46
And the weak consent there are specific department heads that the mayor. 00:57:55
Points with the advice and consent of the council. OK, so that's. 00:57:59
So I didn't change that. I didn't. 00:58:04
202010. 00:58:07
Section C. 00:58:09
OK. 00:58:11
So then section B is how the mayor can vote. 00:58:14
Section C. 00:58:20
Is if you're taking a power or duty away from the mayor. 00:58:23
It kind of tells you what the how the mayor can vote. 00:58:28
So none of this was changed. It's just state code. You're adding state code. I'm adding state code. Really, I'm just. 00:58:35
Mimic and say code and the reason is. 00:58:40
Council Member Nair and I talked about chasing Utah code. 00:58:45
So for example, your Section 1 in your code is your Criminal Code. 00:58:49
Which is really interesting that you would put your. 00:58:53
Opening section as. 00:58:55
We've got a bunch of criminals in vineyards, yeah. 00:58:57
So I didn't do that. 00:59:00
I'm just telling you your Section 1 and your Section 1 actually. 00:59:01
Mirrors Utah code, except Utah code has changed over the years and so I call it chasing Utah code. I don't advise it when I was at 00:59:05
Orem. 00:59:10
We decided as a City Council, that City Council decided. 00:59:15
That they would just reference, for example, the grandma law. They would just reference grandma. 00:59:18
Grandma changed last year and so did the Open Meetings Act instead of. 00:59:23
Quoting the entire Open Meetings Act in your ordinance. Just reference. 00:59:27
Whatever Utah code does so you're always in compliance. 00:59:31
And so. 00:59:35
One of the reasons I thought it was important to put this in the code is for the education of the council and the education of the 00:59:36
public so that they understand what Utah code permits. So. 00:59:42
And so section C here. 00:59:48
In germane to what we were talking about a minute ago, the mayor, with the advice and consent of the City Council, shall appoint 00:59:51
all officers provided for by the city ordinances. 00:59:55
And by statute. 00:59:59
And shall appoint all committee committees authorized by ordinance or resolution. 01:00:00
Of the City Council. 01:00:04
So right now it looks like the mayor appoints. 01:00:05
And we would have to ratify. 01:00:07
Is that my understanding? Yes, you do it with. 01:00:09
You discussed. 01:00:12
The appointment. 01:00:13
So. 01:00:14
Like you did the other night with me, you would say this is what we're doing. 01:00:16
You discuss it publicly. You can't vote in a closed meeting. 01:00:20
So you have a public discussion and then you cast a vote. 01:00:24
So if the vote is in the negative, then the mayor would have to. 01:00:27
Submit another application and generally the way that works if there's an opening in a position. 01:00:31
The mayor will send out a. 01:00:37
An e-mail and say, hey, we have an opening on this committee. 01:00:39
Please give me names that you would like to. 01:00:42
For me to consider. 01:00:45
And then the mayor will. 01:00:47
Look at. 01:00:48
Their application and then decide on the top three candidates, go back to the council and kind of. 01:00:49
To say what do you? 01:00:55
Individually and say how do you feel about this one or that one and then the mayor will decide on when to nominate. So that's 01:00:57
generally how the. 01:01:00
That works in the city. 01:01:04
So. 01:01:07
And I'm sorry, Councilmember Larae, I had skipped that. 01:01:08
But I'm on now the two. 01:01:11
.3 where? 01:01:14
We're talking about the mayor's duties. 01:01:16
Just to help with the discussion. 01:01:20
Do we want to see if there's any recommend? We want to just go page by page and see if there's any recommendations. 01:01:22
Recommended. Yes, I think some of these. 01:01:28
Are innocuous enough that we could. 01:01:30
Just say here's. 01:01:32
Changes and get those approved and move on and that way we can get to the discussion on some of the. 01:01:34
Bigger, bigger changes. 01:01:38
One point of clarification I wanted to make is. 01:01:40
On December 10th, we did. 01:01:44
Adopt A code change to allow us to move to the. 01:01:46
6 member council form of government. So just as the public's reading through and understanding what all this entails, primarily 01:01:49
this is changing. 01:01:53
Kind of the structure within that. So before we had. 01:01:57
Delegated a lot of the powers and duties to the city manager to. 01:02:01
Direct staff appoint staff on that December 10th meeting. 01:02:05
So this is changing a lot of. 01:02:08
Who holds those powers? 01:02:10
And so that'll be a big part of the discussion. 01:02:12
So I think. 01:02:15
Two, we definitely need to change. 01:02:16
2.02 Because that is one that. 01:02:18
The background from those ordinance changes that we did do. 01:02:21
Were not incorporated into the actual code. 01:02:25
And I'm wondering just. 01:02:27
So we can go sequentially here. 01:02:29
Is the preface and the history going to be incorporated in the code this time? I think I think it'd be helpful for the public when 01:02:32
they go in. 01:02:34
To see the code to have a little bit of background and understanding of. 01:02:37
Of what exactly that means? 01:02:41
And the reason I revised the preface, I agree with you that the city. 01:02:43
It's easier for the. 01:02:47
Citizens to look at the preface and say, oh, in November 2024 at a general election, the city voted to change to A6 member council 01:02:50
and I apologize council member. 01:02:56
The only code that I. 01:03:01
I've asked for a copy of the code and the only code that I have is the one that's online and so I have the updated online and if 01:03:03
you made additional changes from that. 01:03:07
I wasn't aware of that. I did note that there are a couple of sections that were included in the code that says that the changes 01:03:13
were adopted in December of 2025 and I probably went. 01:03:18
Along with my. 01:03:23
Faulty assumption that all the changes in December 2025 were incorporated in the code and we're hopeful that's true. I think it's 01:03:25
all there. Yeah, I think we're working from what's currently online, available in public now, which is, and again just on the 01:03:30
10th. Can I ask the rest of the council, are you guys good with going page by page to say if you have a change on the page to say 01:03:35
something, otherwise move on. Yeah, that works. 01:03:40
So for the preface, I just wanted to clarify on the state code has the. 01:03:46
The new form of government or the new council start the first Monday of the year. 01:03:50
Which I'd. 01:03:55
Think January 1st, but it was like the. 01:03:56
Yeah, 6 or something like that. So it might be helpful to just. 01:03:59
Put that in place since. 01:04:03
Some of these will have retroactive impacts. That looks like January 5th. Was that first Monday? 01:04:05
And and let me. 01:04:09
Let me go back and look at the code to determine when that takes effect, and I'll assume you're right, but I like to refer the 01:04:11
code, so I would put the code section in there so that the citizens can go look that up. 01:04:17
So. 01:04:24
So yes, the the preface. 01:04:26
I'm recommending that the City Council. 01:04:28
Adopt the preface and make. 01:04:31
The changes that you would desire. 01:04:33
So I wanted to go back to. 01:04:37
The 2.03. 01:04:39
Sorry, could I could I add one more thing in the? Absolutely. 01:04:43
Just because there is some administrative work. 01:04:46
I'm wondering if in two to B. 01:04:49
If we strike. 01:04:52
The filing fee is refundable. 01:04:53
If somebody files in their. 01:04:55
They've been properly filed for office. 01:04:57
Just to account for. 01:04:59
The bird in that. 01:05:01
Staff has to take to verify their. 01:05:02
Eligibility to be a candidate. 01:05:05
So we just strike that last sentence into. 01:05:08
.02. 01:05:11
What do you think about that? 01:05:13
I mean, if someone, if someone walks in and files the fee and they find it later on, OK, I'm not a citizen after all. Whatever, 01:05:16
you know? 01:05:19
I don't live in vineyards, but whatever. 01:05:23
Yeah we get non refundable for them too. I mean if you know within a day you can't do it. 01:05:26
Parker, you're. 01:05:32
Oh, it would not be great for me to say my thoughts. 01:05:39
Look. 01:05:45
If you. 01:05:46
File umm. 01:05:48
And you're not eligible to run. 01:05:49
How did you not know you weren't eligible to run? 01:05:52
The requirements are you live in the city and you're a citizen. 01:05:55
So either you don't live in the city and you lied so lose your 50 bucks. 01:05:58
Or you lied about your citizenship and. 01:06:02
Who cares? Lose your 50 bucks. 01:06:05
I'm I'm happy to support Ezra in that endeavor, but I think largely that's the penalty for stupidity. And I know the Daily Herald 01:06:07
is going to publish that quote. Jake Holloway, you think so? 01:06:13
Think it's OK? 01:06:19
I think it's OK. 01:06:20
OK, I'll delete that. Is that what the consensus is for me to delete? Let's go with that. 01:06:22
OK, 2 pages down. Let's keep going. 01:06:27
Yeah. 01:06:32
Any other comments on that section? Any other recommendations or changes? 01:06:34
Now we're going to change the effective date to the first Monday in January, is that right? 01:06:38
I'm going to look at. 01:06:43
Utah code to. 01:06:44
OK Utah code. 01:06:47
When you take office, it's the first Monday. But I don't know about the change of the form of government. I don't remember. I did 01:06:49
a memo on that about three years ago. 01:06:53
But I don't remember when it takes effect, whether it's the first. 01:06:57
Day of January or the first Monday? 01:07:00
So I'll go look and I'll quote the code so that OK. 01:07:03
That's. 01:07:07
So anyway, most of. 01:07:08
2.03 is out of state code except. 01:07:09
D is a Nusselt Other, probably divided by an agreement, is set out in UCA 3/11/05. 01:07:18
That's when you can have agreements with city employees. 01:07:23
That may have a term. 01:07:27
In it. 01:07:31
Then all the employees of the city served. 01:07:32
As at will employees and hold employment without limitation of time. 01:07:36
So the City Council can enter into agreements with any employee you would like, Can they? Absolutely. And. 01:07:41
If the if you want to do a term agreement hypothetically. 01:07:49
A new council comes in and they want to hire. 01:07:53
A finance manager, but they want the finance manager to be there they. 01:07:57
Want to do a two year term with the finance manager to incentify? 01:08:00
Somebody to come on the city where? 01:08:04
They know they're not. There's not going to be a transition. 01:08:06
The only other exception in the code is the city manager cannot have a term in their agreement. In other words, you can't hire 01:08:09
city manager for a one year term. 01:08:13
So that's the only other restriction in Utah code. City manager can have an agreement, can have severance. 01:08:18
All of those things in the agreement. 01:08:24
But that's the exception in Utah law. 01:08:27
And you're just adding the law, not. 01:08:30
OK, well, I clarify. Yeah, I added Utah law to clarify. 01:08:32
To the City Council that you can have agreements with people if you do put a term in the agreement. 01:08:36
You have to. 01:08:41
Site in the agreement. 01:08:41
That statue and in the resolution that statue and again a good city attorney will let you know that Section F is there were 01:08:43
resignations in the city. Sorry, real quick on that. 01:08:49
F on D. 01:08:58
I know our historic practice has been to just say that. 01:09:00
Every employee is at will. 01:09:04
OK. 01:09:06
Does that do you think that would hold? 01:09:10
Muster to this section of code that's being referenced here where. 01:09:14
Employees have to formally acknowledge that they're. 01:09:20
Or in writing, acknowledge that they're. 01:09:25
Their employment is. 01:09:27
Appointed or at will. 01:09:29
And that they voluntarily waived the procedures in 10/3. 01:09:30
1106. 01:09:34
Which are the? 01:09:35
Grievance and appeal procedures. 01:09:37
So my opinion is the City Council can make that determination whether that will if they're a term. 01:09:39
Or whether they have an agreement. 01:09:45
That's a position of the City Council can take. 01:09:49
From a practical point of view. 01:09:53
I was asked. 01:09:56
In my agreement to give a 30 day notice and my response is if you don't want me I don't want to be here for 30 days. 01:09:57
Right, if you have a. 01:10:04
Conflict with your attorney. The attorney doesn't want to stay around because. 01:10:06
The attorney doesn't want to represent a client that's not happy with the attorney. 01:10:10
And so I did. 01:10:14
Do as I was asked to put a 30 day notice but if the council decides that they no longer want my service. 01:10:15
Then I would probably want to resign immediately. 01:10:22
So you can have those terms but. 01:10:25
The reality is in a practical. 01:10:27
Sense that when people are going to separate from the city, you generally come up with some kind of agreement. So there's a. 01:10:30
There's a proper separation. 01:10:37
So, so not just for the employment employees, but just for like kind of the. 01:10:40
The basic employees that are. 01:10:43
You know, ground level. 01:10:45
Like a public works inspector. 01:10:47
Would we? 01:10:49
Would we consider this? 01:10:50
Code change. 01:10:53
Basically that written acknowledgment that. 01:10:55
So what does this mean for our existing employees? I guess is what I'm trying to the only reason I wanted to put it in? 01:10:57
Is that? 01:11:02
Some cities don't know this. 01:11:03
Because they would. 01:11:06
They don't understand. 01:11:07
Utah law is very complicated. It's not all in one place. 01:11:10
So if the City Council decided to do an agreement with the term in it, you have to. 01:11:13
Provide that provision both in the agreement and in your resolution. Other than that, everybody is at will. Even if you do an 01:11:17
agreement with me and you give me a severance and I say I'm going to be here for a year. 01:11:23
Most city manager contracts are just simply at will. 01:11:31
Most cities don't have contracts with anyone other than maybe some of the executives of the city. So maybe if you have a city 01:11:35
planner, a city attorney, or a city manager. 01:11:40
They may have agreements. I had an agreement with. 01:11:46
With the city of Orem. 01:11:49
When I was their counsel. 01:11:51
Side agreement with the city to be the City Council. Council and your city manager has an agreement and most city managers do have 01:11:53
an agreement so I wouldn't. 01:11:58
Provide agreements just as a practical point to any other city employees. They are at will. 01:12:03
But they do have some protections in the code. 01:12:09
They have it protections because you put it in your code. They have protections in your code. If you didn't have it in your code, 01:12:13
they have protections and state code. There's a pill process. 01:12:17
OK, so you're saying by default all of our employees are at will? 01:12:22
All of the employees are at will and quite frankly, it doesn't really matter if you have an agreement. 01:12:26
If the City Council. 01:12:30
Doesn't want someone then it's more of an AT will employment. You may have to pay a severance or you may have to pay the term out 01:12:31
if you have a term agreement. 01:12:35
But. 01:12:39
If you if the. 01:12:40
Council decides. 01:12:42
Just a hypothetical, if you hire somebody and they have a one year term and six months in it. 01:12:44
They're not competent. The City Council can say we don't want you here anymore. 01:12:49
But the agreement may pay that require that you pay the this additional six months term because that's what you've agreed to. But 01:12:54
most of the people, all the people really are at will. We serve at the pleasure of the City Council. 01:13:00
You're the. You're the. 01:13:07
Well, the governing body includes the mayor, but the City Council makes the policies. 01:13:09
And passes the ordinances so. 01:13:14
Everyone serves at your will. 01:13:17
So it seems to me that if. 01:13:20
When you're hired, if you part of your employment packet, you sign a disclosure statement that says that it informs you that 01:13:22
you're. 01:13:25
It will. It just reminds you of that basically. 01:13:28
Right, it would. It would probably suffice to take. 01:13:30
You know as proper notification. 01:13:33
It that provision is not necessary. 01:13:35
I just. 01:13:38
Just in my experience, I wanted to educate the City Council on all aspects of doing an agreement with an employee. 01:13:39
So number FII would just point out. 01:13:47
And I think it's. 01:13:51
The employees need to understand this. That's why I think it's so amazing what Mayor Stratton has done even though having the 01:13:52
authority and the council. 01:13:55
To go meet, sit, talk. 01:13:59
Even, you know, there was a comment like I can't believe you're paying out. I'm like. 01:14:02
That's how good we are. 01:14:06
That's how great. 01:14:07
It to work with people quietly and not kick him to the curb in a mean way when they don't. 01:14:08
When there's not a fit like, that's the way. 01:14:14
Vineyard is if there's a change, so. 01:14:17
I think Orem was really good about that too. If there was a separation with an employee, it was done quietly. It was 01:14:20
unconfidentially. 01:14:23
In in most cases there probably was a severance unless there was a serious issue with the employee. So and I think. 01:14:27
You know, if you're. 01:14:36
Going to separate from the city you don't want, you want to give the employee the opportunity to go out and get another job and, 01:14:37
and so. 01:14:41
You really don't want to make these employee employment issues public or even, yeah, even drag them here on social media or drag 01:14:46
them on a meeting to have a vote. It's like. 01:14:50
Yeah, and one day there was a Supreme Court case that came out last year regarding City Council members. It was actually a city 01:14:55
manager that had a Facebook page. 01:15:00
And so the Supreme Court actually took it up. So one day we'll talk about your social media. 01:15:05
And what you can and. 01:15:10
Can do and what you. 01:15:12
What is? 01:15:14
What the Supreme Court guidelines were. 01:15:16
So section F came up as a result of some resignations in your city, and I was asked to draft this. So this is a unique. 01:15:18
Provision. I haven't seen it in any other city codes. 01:15:26
But the question was who has the ability to, say, accept a resignation? 01:15:29
And it could be you. You could if somebody at. 01:15:35
That is a department head resigns. You can say the resignation has to be submitted to the City Council and the City Council will 01:15:37
accept it. But that means that you have to have a vote to accept it. You can't accept it privately. You have to bring the issue up 01:15:42
in a public meeting to say. 01:15:48
The employee resigned. 01:15:56
That may not be what the employee wishes. 01:15:57
And so so I drafted as the Mayor may accept the resignation of an officer employee of the city and at the Mayor's discretion and 01:16:00
in compliance with the City's employment policies, enter into a severance agreement. 01:16:06
Which means that your employment. 01:16:13
Policy should limit the mayor on what he can provide as he or she can provide as a severance. 01:16:15
So, and I don't know if it does because I didn't go into your city policy. I did review them briefly, but I didn't. 01:16:21
Align those, but they should be aligned where the City Council sets the policy on what the mayor can give as a severance. 01:16:28
And therefore it's just an automatic thing. Somebody says I want to resign or the city wants to sever. 01:16:36
Separate. 01:16:41
Than the mayor can say I'll give you the severance and based on the city policy, this is the severance that we can offer. 01:16:43
And so that's better set as a policy. 01:16:48
Issue and not necessarily encode. 01:16:50
Is a policy issue, Yes. 01:16:52
Yes, can we? 01:16:54
Is everyone OK if we instruct our HR director to? 01:16:56
Bring that policy before us and review it, yeah. 01:16:59
Yeah, I think we can ask for that. 01:17:02
Even though it's not drafted, just just so we know, I think it's better to put it in a policy and give. 01:17:05
Free reign of. 01:17:10
Hey, here's some guidelines of where you're at. 01:17:11
So can you ask our city manager to to ask the mayor to do that and arrange for that? 01:17:14
So next week we can. 01:17:20
You said Mayor you. 01:17:21
HR Director. 01:17:23
Yeah, the HR director. 01:17:24
OK, HR director, bring it. OK, Yeah. 01:17:26
That makes more sense and I'd be glad to sure. Thank you. 01:17:28
And again, I I did not compare this with your policies. I don't know what your policies are, but I would recommend that if you're 01:17:31
going to go. 01:17:35
This route and allow the mayor to accept a resignation. 01:17:40
Than the mayor should. 01:17:43
Be able to look at the policies and determine what his authority, his or her authority would be. 01:17:45
In my experience, I've actually had. 01:17:50
Two that have said. 01:17:53
In I remember reading the e-mail saying they did not want it to come to a public vote. 01:17:56
And so that like this is honoring the privacy of. 01:18:01
I haven't had very many, but in the last year. 01:18:05
A while ago but I was like oh that makes sense. 01:18:07
So I think giving the mayor the opportunity to accept it privately is fine. 01:18:10
Yeah, great. Moving on. Keep going. 01:18:14
Could we hold off on proving that one until we? 01:18:19
Amend the policy, because right now. 01:18:22
I don't think there's any direction in the employment policy so. 01:18:24
I theory. 01:18:28
I spoke with the HR director yesterday at length. 01:18:29
About all of this. 01:18:32
And I don't have any problems. 01:18:34
I mean, it's pretty. 01:18:36
Standard and I don't. 01:18:37
Not trust the mayor is. 01:18:39
To your concern that the mayor would give out too much severance to someone? 01:18:41
In theory not. 01:18:46
Looking at the policy from a person perspective, but just looking at. 01:18:48
Regardless of who's in the seat. Does this make sense? 01:18:52
At this moment. 01:18:55
And I think without that direction. 01:18:56
We are. 01:18:59
Giving broad authority that. 01:19:00
We might never get back. 01:19:02
So the issue is then. 01:19:04
And I, I would agree with that that. 01:19:06
You should have a policy, and I don't know if you do. I'm not suggesting you don't have a policy. I don't know. 01:19:09
But. 01:19:15
Then you're going to have to give direction on who accepts the resignation. 01:19:17
So if. 01:19:21
I resign. 01:19:22
Pardon me, can we propose an amendment to it so that if we vote to pass that we can have an amended? 01:19:24
Code here. 01:19:31
Like could I just say. 01:19:33
The mayor can accept a resignation. 01:19:35
Of an officer. 01:19:37
And enter into a severance agreement. 01:19:40
Up to one month per year of. 01:19:42
Work. 01:19:45
Something like that. 01:19:46
You can put that in the ordinance. Why wouldn't you? Just why wouldn't you? 01:19:48
Because I don't think we're giving the authority to the mayor. We're. 01:19:51
Delineating it to the policy. 01:19:54
So it's not. 01:19:57
Giving the mayor power, it's just. 01:19:57
We just got to make sure that we put the policy in place. So yeah, I just want to say like, let's just keep that first part. 01:20:00
And then we can. 01:20:05
Amend. 01:20:06
This. 01:20:07
You can amend this code. 01:20:08
When we have the policy, we can do it at the same time of saying. 01:20:10
So that we have a policy we can re add that the mayor may accept the resignation of an officer or employee of the city at the 01:20:13
mayor's discretion and just cut it there. Is that what you're saying? 01:20:17
Yeah. And then? 01:20:22
We still hold the authority over kind of establishing what's in the severance agreement so we can talk about it. 01:20:23
Do that, but then eventually we'll get to a policy where we say this is the standard and we can. 01:20:28
Pass that and then amend that back into. 01:20:34
To this that gets a thumbs up from me. 01:20:36
That means that the. 01:20:41
Agreements would need to come back. 01:20:43
For a vote. 01:20:44
Is what you're saying is that would be the current one. 01:20:45
We approve the policy. We wouldn't have to approve each one. We'd approve a policy. 01:20:49
That would then be used, Yeah, I would do the policy, but currently we would. 01:20:54
Get to deliberate on those. 01:20:58
OK, and and the issue you have right now if you have. 01:21:01
Resignation agreements and you have severance agreements. The mayor has no authority. 01:21:05
The mayor can accept those, but the mayor has no authority to give a severance out unless it's voted on publicly by the council. 01:21:11
Can we? 01:21:14
Just to get your guys's. 01:21:19
Thought opinion on this because we're supposed to deliberate publicly. 01:21:21
I am generally aware. 01:21:24
Of. 01:21:27
The current severance agreements being offered to people who are resigning. 01:21:28
I'm not. 01:21:32
Explicitly aware of the detail here, but I don't think that there's anything particularly concerning. Could we just grandfather 01:21:33
those in? 01:21:36
Yeah, I definitely don't want to. 01:21:40
Hold it up knowing I mean I'm I'm generally. 01:21:42
Except I do not think the numbers reference publicly were anything near that. But yeah. 01:21:44
Like umm. 01:21:49
And I don't, I don't, I don't want to hold the service to the employees that are also looking to move on. 01:21:51
I don't want to put them in the spotlight unnecessarily. 01:21:57
And they have already, if they've already come to agreements, we should honor those agreements. 01:22:00
Maybe if you want to go in that direction, maybe we take out. 01:22:05
In compliance with the city's employment policies for right now. 01:22:11
So the mayor can still enter into a severance agreement. If you trust your mayor, you can add that and then we can revise it. 01:22:15
Later to say, oh, the mayor has to comply with the policy so that way it does we can keep it as a you just e-mail me what? 01:22:22
Those numbers are I. 01:22:30
I don't really know what those numbers are so. 01:22:33
OK, that's all I'm. 01:22:35
And just to remind the council why you're negotiating with people, it's a confidential matter, right? And even drafts that go back 01:22:37
and forth of agreements or are are drafts and they're not grammable. 01:22:43
But once you sign the agreement as a severance agreement, that's a public document. 01:22:48
And so, so right now, whatever you pass among yourself regarding employees is just a draft. It's going back and forth. I don't 01:22:53
know all of the people that are resigning, but I know four are represented by very competent legal counsel and I have spoken to 01:23:00
the legal counsel on several occasions. So they're very well represented and. 01:23:06
They actually did the draft of the agreement, so obviously they think the agreement is fair, so. 01:23:14
To any other questions. So I guess I need some direction shall I take out? 01:23:21
No, I think you can leave it in, that's fine. 01:23:28
So I want to make sure I understand it and take out and in compliance with the city's employment policies, I'd leave that in 01:23:31
there. Yeah, OK. I think we just settled that we'd leave it. OK. And. 01:23:36
All right. And then that just needs to change the E. 01:23:42
Right. 01:23:45
If I think unless there's an E that I'm missing. 01:23:46
And so the issue that I have as attorney, I'm very. 01:23:48
Particular with the law. 01:23:52
The mayor has no authority to enter several agreements unless you have policies, so my recommendation you change that in 01:23:54
compliance with the city's policies. 01:23:58
And you have to trust the mayor this time. 01:24:03
And then when you do the policies, we can. 01:24:06
Reinsert that back in. 01:24:08
So right now you're handcuffing the mayor that he can't do a severance agreement if there's no policies. And I don't know if 01:24:10
there's no policies. I'm just saying I don't let's. 01:24:14
We trust him, I mean. 01:24:19
OK, no coffee. 01:24:20
He's been very transparent with the. 01:24:22
For now, so. 01:24:23
Yeah, no, there's no current policy. 01:24:25
There was specifically cover that, so let's do that. 01:24:27
The mayor is, yeah. 01:24:30
And the policy could be you leave it at the. 01:24:31
The mayor or the city? 01:24:34
Managers discretion. That could be your policy instead of doing. 01:24:35
One month for every year or whatever. It can be a policy. That is just the discretion, yeah. 01:24:39
Because if an if an employee hypothetically does something illegal. 01:24:44
Maybe you don't want to give a separance. Maybe this is. 01:24:49
Termination for cause, and so you wouldn't want to reward bad behavior. So what if you just add it in consultation with the 01:24:52
council instead of in compliance with the city's employment policies? 01:24:56
OK. As we talked about the number, I just want to make sure that. 01:25:01
We've thrown out some numbers. 01:25:04
And so I just want to. 01:25:07
Verify what those are before. 01:25:08
We go through with it. 01:25:11
Just. 01:25:12
I can put that in there. 01:25:14
The only issue I have with it when he does it in consultation with the Council. 01:25:16
He can do it. 01:25:20
Individually. 01:25:23
Individual, but he can't. 01:25:25
You can't vote. 01:25:26
Other words you can't say to the mayor. 01:25:28
Yes, I vote that you can do that. You can say to the mayor. 01:25:31
It looked. 01:25:34
Your your offer looks good to me. 01:25:36
But it should come in front of the Council. 01:25:38
If you're going to do consultation with the council, it should be open to the public. 01:25:40
Right. And so I think you have a problem if you put in consultation with the council because you've got to be transparent, you 01:25:45
have to be transparent with the public that. 01:25:49
The council's consulting about something and they should know how you feel about that. 01:25:52
Right. Yeah, I think where we got last time because we had. 01:25:57
Closed session to. 01:26:00
Basically kind of talk about. 01:26:02
The individual performance. 01:26:03
And then there were some numbers thrown out in there. 01:26:06
So. 01:26:10
If we just had a closed session, that was like, here's what the plan is for the professional competence on this individual. 01:26:12
I'd be comfortable with that. 01:26:19
I is the intent. 01:26:22
For that to discuss the severance package directly. 01:26:24
I just want to know what the numbers are. That's the main thing. I just want to make sure So and I would reckon have an impact on 01:26:27
the budget, which again, you're the council, you decide. So I would recommend if you do that, the mayor. 01:26:32
There would be an agenda item that says. 01:26:39