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Event transcript
Get started. Today is November 12th, 2025. The time is. 00:00:00
6 almost 6:00 PM Do we need to wait till 6:00? 00:00:06
It's 5:59. We're going to wait one minute. 00:00:10
I'm early, but thank you for being here. 00:00:14
OK, now we're going to start. 00:00:31
It is November 12th, 2025. The time is 6:00 PM and I'm going to call the. 00:00:34
Vineyard City Council into session. We're going to start out with an invocation or an inspirational thought. And the Pledge of 00:00:40
Allegiance. I'm going to ask. 00:00:44
Councilmember Clausen if. 00:00:48
On the spot. 00:00:51
OK. 00:00:53
Our Father in heaven, we're grateful that we can be here this this evening to. 00:00:57
Discuss the the needs of the city and do the work of the city and. 00:01:01
We ask that our minds might be clear that we can. 00:01:06
Ask the right questions and get the right answers. And this we pray, the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. 00:01:10
All the rise. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:21
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:01:26
One nation under. 00:01:29
Indivisible with. 00:01:32
All right, we have. 00:01:37
Matt Carter with us here today and he is going to talk to us about. 00:01:38
The front runner deputy project. 00:01:42
No, you are the front runner, deputy project manager for UTA. I was. 00:01:45
Almost saying your title is what we're going to be talking about, but what we're going to be talking about is. 00:01:49
The front runner double tracking. 00:01:54
In, that's going along the Wasatch Front. 00:01:56
Come on up. 00:02:00
Hello. Thank you for having us today. Thank you so much for coming. 00:02:07
My name is Matt Carter. I'm the Deputy Project Manager for the Front Runner 2X project. 00:02:10
This is Janelle Robertson. Janelle Robertson, I'm the UTA project manager. 00:02:15
We're going to. 00:02:20
If they believe we have a presentation is that. 00:02:21
Going to come up that we could share. 00:02:25
Do you have it on a flash drive or something like that? We could. 00:02:31
Get it loaded up. 00:02:34
Let's see in the seam it looks like you step. He's probably I. 00:02:36
Would guess getting that ready if he's. 00:02:40
It's like he stepped out. 00:02:42
Pictures up there. 00:02:49
Nassim, do you have the power the PowerPoint loaded up? 00:03:00
If you don't, we might. We may have it here. 00:03:08
Yeah, it's right there. It's. 00:03:12
Quick share on that. 00:03:15
Cash, they're my friends. If you want to e-mail it to me that can take my tablet and. 00:03:24
Big, but can they do it on my laptop? 00:03:30
Like if you. 00:03:34
So you could present it or you. 00:03:40
I've never gotten quite sure. 00:03:46
It's a 5050. 00:03:52
Jump into the start and then. 00:04:31
Yeah, I'll do 1 through 11. 00:04:33
I'm not optimistic. 00:04:47
Good music to play. 00:05:12
While we're waiting. 00:05:14
Jeopardy. 00:05:16
Yeah. Thank you. 00:05:27
Will that work? 00:05:30
Yep. 00:05:34
Right, I'm going to start the presentation with just some background information about the project and then Matt will go into. 00:05:39
More detail about the design and and the work that's. 00:05:46
Going on with that. 00:05:50
Let's see. 00:05:52
Oh, I see. It's a pattern. 00:05:55
So the Front Runner 2X project is a joint project between UTA and UDOT. 00:06:03
State funds. 00:06:08
That are partially funding the project and so UDOT is leading the procurement and the project. 00:06:09
Umm as it's moving forward with UTA as a partner. 00:06:15
Brian Allen, who's the project manager, had another City Council meeting he had to be to. 00:06:20
Tonight, so we're kind of just. 00:06:24
Splitting up the rolls here so we have. 00:06:26
You know somebody. 00:06:29
Here but. 00:06:30
Normally he would be here and present this information. 00:06:31
Just some overall information about Frontrunner, our first. 00:06:36
Trains in the north started running in 2008. 00:06:42
Was from Salt Lake City to Ogden. 00:06:45
And then we built track down to Provo, from Salt Lake City to Provo. 00:06:47
And that service started in 2012. 00:06:52
We have about. 00:06:55
48 million passengers. 00:06:56
Since the project started. 00:06:59
It's 83 miles. 00:07:01
Most of the corridor is a single track system. 00:07:03
In 2000. 00:07:08
24 We get about 14,500 riders a day. 00:07:09
And there are 16 stations in the corridor. 00:07:14
The Max speed on front runner is 79 miles an hour in the areas where. 00:07:18
We have enough room to get up to that speed. 00:07:24
So the purpose of the project as I mentioned with a 75% single track system. 00:07:29
We need to. 00:07:35
We can't provide very much service with that right now. We do 30 minute service in the peak hours and one hour service in the off 00:07:38
peak hours. 00:07:42
In order to provide more service. 00:07:46
What we need to. 00:07:49
Have more double tracking. 00:07:50
The umm. 00:07:52
Currently on the system about 90%. 00:07:54
That's about 90% capacity in certain segments and the grant that we're going after for. 00:07:57
With the Federal Transit Administration is to increase the capacity. 00:08:04
Of the system. 00:08:09
And the way that we're doing that is in. 00:08:10
Increasing the amount of double tracking that we have. 00:08:12
Benefits from the project is. 00:08:17
Increasing the frequency. So the project would increase the frequency to 15 minutes in the peak and 30 minutes in the off peak. 00:08:20
So significantly more service than we were able to provide now. 00:08:27
Improve the reliability of our system. 00:08:30
Right now, whenever one train is late with so much single track in the system, we get what we call cascading delays and it delays 00:08:34
every train in the system. And so then it kind of. 00:08:39
It causes a lot of problem for commuters so. 00:08:44
It's going to significantly help our reliability in the system. 00:08:46
Increasing the choice of travel in the Wasatch Front is very important. 00:08:50
Reason to do the project. 00:08:56
Overtime, I-15 is going to continue to get slower and slower, and it's getting harder and harder to. 00:08:58
Increase it for that demand. 00:09:05
Front runner is going to stay the same travel time, if not continue to get better as we continue to improve it. 00:09:08
Better air quality with having less vehicle miles traveled. 00:09:15
And with the increase in frequency, it really significantly is going to increase the ridership right now with, you know, you miss 00:09:19
your train and you have to wait an hour for the next train. 00:09:24
It doesn't make it a very attractive. 00:09:29
Mode of transportation and so the frequency is really expected to increase the ridership as well. 00:09:31
So this project has 11 double tracking sections, about 26 miles of additional double tracking. 00:09:40
One new station in Bluffdale. 00:09:47
At the point of the mountain development. 00:09:49
One track retract. 00:09:52
Alignment. 00:09:54
Near our current maintenance facility. 00:09:55
In order to run that additional service, we need 10 additional train sets. 00:09:58
And we need a maintenance facility to maintain those. 00:10:02
Additional trains. 00:10:06
So this is a video of which I have no hope is going to do anything because. 00:10:11
This is a PDF. 00:10:17
But if you want to see the video, we have a really good video online. 00:10:20
That kind of explains how the double tracking works and. 00:10:25
And why we're doing the project and you can just go to the front runner to X. 00:10:30
Project website and it's a really cool video and it explains how train operations work a little bit. 00:10:37
And how the double tracking is going to improve the service? 00:10:43
These are the areas where we're doing the double tracking. 00:10:51
The dark blue. 00:10:54
Areas are the areas where we have existing double track in the system. As you could see that's in very few locations. 00:10:56
And mostly just at the station. So those are the only. 00:11:02
Only places in the system where the trains can pass each other. 00:11:06
The red areas are where. 00:11:09
Extending those double tracking sections. 00:11:12
There's a lot in New York, in Utah County, so. 00:11:15
It should have a pretty good reliable. 00:11:19
Service here. 00:11:22
The purple box is where the new station will go. 00:11:24
Overall timeline, We are in the phase of completing the environmental work. 00:11:30
Finalizing the design and procuring the trains and looking toward a federal grant approval. 00:11:36
Construction is expected to be from 2027 to 2029. 00:11:43
With starting the service in 20-30. 00:11:48
The environmental process that we've done so far has been overseen by the Federal Transit Administration. 00:11:55
We have done a categorical exclusion which is a certain level of environmental documentation for each double tracking segment. 00:12:00
So that they can be independent projects. 00:12:10
And then there is a place. 00:12:13
Planning and environmental linkage document that we had produced. 00:12:15
Prior to that which? 00:12:18
Is for the entire Frontrunner 2X project. 00:12:19
Linking those projects together with the additional service. 00:12:23
And then for the environmental review, these are the typical. 00:12:30
Things that are reviewed in the environmental documentation and we have. 00:12:33
Terry here. Who was the person who's been leading this? If we have any questions or anything about the environmental 00:12:37
documentation. 00:12:41
And then I'm going to let Matt talk about the details of the. 00:12:48
Good design, sorry. 00:12:52
OK. So the segment that? 00:12:56
Involves Vineyard City. 00:12:57
Is the north of Orem segment it starts. 00:12:59
At the Vineyard station on the North End. 00:13:03
And extends. 00:13:05
There's double tracking around the Vineyard station will extend from where that double tracking ends at the South end of that 00:13:07
station. 00:13:11
Down to the Orem station where the double track. 00:13:15
Begins again to go around the Orem station. It's about 1.7 miles long. 00:13:18
Let's see, I gotta work. 00:13:27
Yeah, yes, girl. 00:13:29
We've tried to break up the strip map of the through the Vineyard area into three areas, but it's going to be kind of hard to see. 00:13:36
This is the North End. 00:13:44
It's by the school there. 00:13:47
By the. 00:13:50
Where the current turn out is that goes from double track to single track. 00:13:51
The most interesting piece of this area is we are going to have double crossovers in this area, which allows the trains to go back 00:13:57
and forth from one track to the other. 00:14:02
Those will. 00:14:08
Probably not be used very much. Generally speaking the trains will just use the straight through movements. 00:14:09
On the track, but in the event that one of the tracks in the system. 00:14:16
Gets blocked with a train that might be out of service or something going on in one of the tracks. It allows the. 00:14:21
Allows them to detour to the other track to get around so that we're not. 00:14:29
Limited to just a single track system in the whole area down here. 00:14:32
As we get more and more double track areas that are fully connected, we'll have more of these double crossovers through those 00:14:37
fully double tracked areas and since. 00:14:41
With this project, we'll have double track from Provo. 00:14:47
All the way to almost the Lehigh station. 00:14:50
We need these double crossover areas so that we can. 00:14:54
Get trains back and forth. 00:14:58
The next. 00:15:00
Areas kind of in that middle section. 00:15:04
Of the vineyard area. 00:15:06
It runs along the trail. 00:15:08
The plan here is that we would be building a track to the. 00:15:11
West of the current track. Between the current track and the trail. 00:15:16
The plan would be I think I have a cross section in this. 00:15:21
Which would show. 00:15:25
A little bit more of what that cross section would look like. 00:15:27
But generally speaking. 00:15:30
The area that's between the trail and the current track is where the new train would go. We would build a wall. 00:15:34
Directly adjacent to the eastern edge of the trail. 00:15:40
The trail would remain in place. 00:15:44
But the eastern side of the trail would be. 00:15:47
Have a. 00:15:52
Probably a short wall and that you'll see that in the. 00:15:52
In the cross section. 00:15:56
In this area, we begin to transition all of the tracks to the. 00:16:00
East as we go South. 00:16:06
We have a couple pinch point areas particularly. 00:16:08
The Geneva Road bridge. 00:16:12
When we go on to the Geneva Road bridge, our track is 10 feet from the. 00:16:14
Southern abutment of that bridge and so we can't get a track. 00:16:19
To the east side of our track through there. So we've got to push. 00:16:23
Union Pacific over a track and build. 00:16:28
Our new track between US and Union Pacific. 00:16:31
So that transition starts kind of where those blue lines are. Those blue lines are the transition of the UP tracks pushing. 00:16:38
A little bit to the east. 00:16:45
Umm. 00:16:49
This is kind of the southern end. 00:16:52
Of the project through this area. 00:16:55
We are building our track between our current track and Union Pacific. 00:16:57
We do not affect Vineyard Rd. 00:17:02
We do not affect those businesses between Vineyard Rd. and Geneva Rd. 00:17:06
We build underneath Geneva Rd. between. 00:17:10
The current up track in Union Pacific. 00:17:14
And then we. 00:17:16
Continue that through 400 S. 00:17:18
Where we cross at 400 S. 00:17:21
Essentially there'll be an additional track to the east, which is the new Union Pacific track that's been relocated and then our 00:17:24
track will be will fit in between. 00:17:28
The current set of tracks that cross across that. 00:17:33
Intersection, so there won't be a track any closer to Geneva Rd. on 400. 00:17:36
But there will be one on the on the east side. 00:17:41
I think that's generally the highlights of. 00:17:46
Work through. 00:17:49
Vineyard. Here's the cross section. 00:17:55
Of the area near the trail. 00:17:57
The area. 00:18:00
So this is our current track right here. 00:18:03
So this would be the new track that we would build. It'll be built 15 feet off of the center. 00:18:07
Of the existing track. 00:18:12
This is the current trail right here. 00:18:15
And so there would be a wall built right on the edge of that trail. 00:18:18
To accommodate. 00:18:22
The construction of that. 00:18:24
New track. 00:18:27
The wall height would be somewhere between zero and three or four feet, depending on where you are along that trail and how that 00:18:28
trail goes kind of up and down in relation to the current track. 00:18:33
The new track would be built at the same elevation as the. 00:18:38
As the the new track would be built at the same elevation as the existing track. 00:18:41
We have studied some noise impacts. Terry could answer questions. 00:18:54
In regards to it basically. 00:18:58
We have identified some. 00:19:01
Minor impacts. 00:19:04
To noise. 00:19:05
Mainly at the North End of near those double crossovers. 00:19:06
Umm, we are mitigating those by installing what's called a spring frog. 00:19:11
Turn out at those turnouts that will build those double crossovers. 00:19:19
Generally. 00:19:23
A turn out the major piece of noise and vibration. 00:19:25
Is the gap that the? 00:19:30
The wheel of the train has to go across to cross where the where the rails are crossing. 00:19:32
And in a spring frog. 00:19:38
It keeps that gap closed so that it can run on continuous rail except for when it's making the divergent move diverging movement, 00:19:41
so it wouldn't have a problem. 00:19:46
Wouldn't wouldn't make as much noise when it's just running in its daily? 00:19:51
Runs on the straight through track. 00:19:55
So with that frog our. 00:19:58
Our modeling and our analysis indicates that we've mitigated the. 00:20:01
Minor impacts due to noise. 00:20:06
We also looked at vibration. 00:20:12
The vibration analysis didn't show that there was anything that exceeded thresholds to justify any mitigation. 00:20:16
For vibration. 00:20:22
But again, the spring frogs that we're installing will also help with any. 00:20:25
With reducing the vibration. 00:20:28
In the area. 00:20:31
One of the things that is, I think, mentioned on the agenda is a cooperative agreement, a master agreement. 00:20:35
I believe that this master agreement is mostly associated with. 00:20:42
Utilities. 00:20:46
This is something that will probably it's being worked on right now between staff and UTA project management. 00:20:48
It just sets forth. 00:20:56
How we'll work together to get things relocated. 00:20:59
At Uta's expense, At Utah's expense to pay for any relocations that might need to take place. 00:21:02
Or. 00:21:08
Casings that might be need to be extended or things like that. 00:21:10
That's the. 00:21:14
The gist of that master agreement? 00:21:14
The master agreement mainly just talks about. 00:21:18
The how we would work together. 00:21:21
Then there would be a specific supplemental agreement for each. 00:21:23
Specific utility and how? 00:21:25
That'll get utilized. 00:21:28
Or how that will get relocated and paid for and costs and. 00:21:30
Anything specific associated with that? 00:21:33
Utility. 00:21:37
As far as next steps on the project, we'll. 00:21:43
Finish up all of our environmental. 00:21:46
Plans and things we will finish our design Our design is set to. 00:21:50
Go through. 00:21:55
Probably most of next year. 00:21:56
Before we're final. 00:21:59
With our design. 00:22:00
We have selected a contractor for the project, they're called Frontrunner Forward Partners. It's a joint venture between. 00:22:02
Umm, Stacy and Whitbeck and. 00:22:09
Ralph L Wadsworth. 00:22:12
And as Janelle mentioned, construction. 00:22:15
Could start as early as 2027, depends kind of a little bit on. 00:22:17
How our contractor stages the different? 00:22:22
Segments of work and where they'll go from there. 00:22:25
I think that's it. If you are interested there's some. 00:22:31
Our website, Our phone numbers. 00:22:35
If you search. 00:22:38
Front runner. 00:22:39
FR2X. 00:22:41
On YouTube, I think that video that we had in there pulls up pretty easy. 00:22:43
It looks just like that. 00:22:48
Front screen that was on. 00:22:49
Slide but. 00:22:51
It's pretty interesting video. It explains the. 00:22:52
The need of why we need to have double track in order to have trains pass and get more trains out on the system so. 00:22:55
Thank you for your time. Any questions that we can answer? 00:23:02
We're happy to do so. 00:23:06
OK, Council, do you have any questions? 00:23:07
I do. 00:23:11
I know with the train station there came requirements with housing. 00:23:13
And anything with the double track. Is there any requirements on? 00:23:17
Increasing density or beautification or with federal dollars sometimes comes strings attached is there. 00:23:21
Any known string strings attached on this? 00:23:27
Nothing that would be associated with the city. 00:23:30
For any zoning requirements or anything like that, there are strings attached as far as on our side and increasing capacity and 00:23:34
making sure that we are providing the service that we're saying that we're going to provide. 00:23:39
In our grant application. 00:23:46
So there are some things that we'll need to make sure that we. 00:23:48
Meet when we make the commitments to get the grant, but nothing for the city. 00:23:51
OK. 00:23:57
Well, thank you so much for coming down. We appreciate it and for informing us in our community about it. 00:23:58
And council, you'll have access to this. 00:24:03
PowerPoint and then we will. 00:24:06
Take that website that you gave us as well. 00:24:09
Thank you. OK, Thanks. OK. 00:24:12
All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our work session items. 00:24:15
And we're going to start with 3.1, our rental license. 00:24:19
By Maria Ortega Our Neighborhood Services Coordinator will be presenting this. 00:24:23
Just let me know. 00:24:59
Tom. 00:25:22
OK, perfect. So. 00:25:27
Over the past year. 00:25:29
Be in cash have been working on a. 00:25:31
Rental license program. 00:25:34
There we go. 00:25:40
And basically what this would do is it would require all rental dwellings within Vineyard to obtain a business license. 00:25:44
That would be excluding any ad use as well as any. 00:25:51
Rentals for immediate families. 00:25:54
And then any of the apartment buildings. 00:25:56
This would include a new application, a business license fee. 00:26:00
Parking requirements and inspections. 00:26:03
And then? 00:26:06
The last point is just to let you know that the state law does authorize us to do this and there's many other cities in Utah that. 00:26:07
Have this right now and that are there are some of them clear field Orem Provo. 00:26:13
The purpose of this is really just to provide. 00:26:20
Resources to control occupancy. That's been one of the biggest issues that I've had. 00:26:23
While doing code enforcement and neighborhood services. 00:26:27
As well as providing adequate living conditions and providing renters with resources. 00:26:30
To know what? 00:26:36
Their rights are. 00:26:37
And then to ensure that landlords are providing. 00:26:40
A good amount of parking spaces. 00:26:42
It also helps with unpaid utility issues and it helps us collect information on who's in the home as well as landlords and the 00:26:46
management companies. 00:26:51
Here's just a timeline of what we have, kind of. 00:26:57
In mind. 00:27:01
We are currently doing a disproportionate fee study. 00:27:02
And a licensed study than we plan on doing public outreach. 00:27:05
One thing we want to kind of talk about is. 00:27:09
The different forms we were planning on doing kind of online outreach as well as possibly some. 00:27:12
Some public houses open homes. 00:27:17
And then we would do. 00:27:20
Council review at that time in March, as well as we have a communications plan on. 00:27:22
Different things that we're going to do to. 00:27:29
Put it out there in social media. 00:27:32
As well as when it would begin in July of next year is the goal. 00:27:33
There we go. 00:27:39
And then that's just kind of some of the communication things again that we have. We have Flyers that will be sending out. 00:27:40
Public meetings such as City Council. We want to add a page to our website and add it to the newsletter. Utility bills. 00:27:46
As well as we'd create. 00:27:52
Flyers and content that would be for landlords and tenants. 00:27:54
In English and Spanish, because we do know that there is quite a bit of tenants that are mainly Spanish speakers. 00:27:58
And then for this. 00:28:07
The application that we have in mind would be just one application, even if. 00:28:09
A landlord owns multiple homes. 00:28:13
They would just list every home that they have on that main application. 00:28:17
We would need valid contact information from them including e-mail, phone number. 00:28:21
If the owner does not live within 20 miles of the rental dwelling. 00:28:25
We would require them to have a property owner. 00:28:29
And have that properties under information so that if there is. 00:28:31
Any reason an issue at the property? 00:28:35
We can reach out to the property management company instead. 00:28:37
We need the number of individuals renting out the unit. 00:28:41
The number of offset parking spaces that they are providing. 00:28:44
As well as. 00:28:47
An acknowledgment that they've. 00:28:49
Spoken to the HOA and that they. 00:28:50
Are in agreeance that they are renting out the unit. 00:28:53
Inspections. 00:28:58
We do plan on doing inspections on properties. 00:28:59
We have two different options that we're looking at right now. One of them is a one year renewal where there would be an initial 00:29:02
inspection. 00:29:06
And then any further inspection would be based on complaints. 00:29:09
And then a two year renewal. 00:29:12
Where this would have an initial inspection. 00:29:14
And then it would require a biannual inspection. This is closer to our Adu license that we currently have. 00:29:16
And then? 00:29:24
Yeah. And with most of these points, we do want to have this as a discussion maybe at the end. 00:29:27
For that to see what that does to the county averages. 00:30:02
And then just recently we have started working with Zion Public Finance to determine the fee that would be. 00:30:04
Right for for Vineyard and so they essentially they just analyze how much staff time it takes to accept these applications, update 00:30:10
the websites, do these inspections. 00:30:14
And go on from there. You said Science Bank. 00:30:20
Zion Zions Public Finance, Yeah. 00:30:22
And then we just kind of brainstormed some questions that were outside of the scope of this and and just wanted to address those 00:30:26
so. 00:30:29
How will this be enforced just through our basic code enforcement process? 00:30:33
So if we do get reports of a rental and they don't have a license, we'll use, you know, our code enforcement personnel to reach 00:30:38
out to the property owners and get them to come into compliance, whether that's get a license or clear up if they're not a rental. 00:30:43
The fee is going to be placed is the responsibility of the property owner. They are the ones that have to fill out the 00:30:51
application, pay the fee. The the tenant cannot do that. 00:30:54
All rental properties that do not have professional on site management will have to get this license. So this mostly excludes 00:30:59
properties along Mill Rd. except for Edgewater townhomes. 00:31:04
Just because they have that on site management, we just don't have issues with occupancy or maintenance issues, so. 00:31:10
And then the the hardest part is probably that last question is how are we going to find the properties that don't proactively 00:31:19
register because we definitely are going to do the best that we can to outreach to everybody in the city saying this is a 00:31:23
requirement, you do need to get this license, but there will be some that. 00:31:27
Just don't get a license. And so I've been talking with other cities throughout the state to figure out kind of what they've done. 00:31:31
And a lot of them have just. 00:31:37
Taking it through code enforcement that as they get complaints they just. 00:31:38
Work it through the system. 00:31:41
But we do have some tools such as the county partial data and utility counts. So on the county website, if we see that somebody 00:31:43
owns multiple properties, we can assume they're not living it every single one of those houses. And so we can then reach out to 00:31:48
them and let them know they need the license. And same thing with the utility accounts. We have a list of kind of existing rentals 00:31:52
that we can utilize. 00:31:57
And then like I said before the report concern tool. 00:32:02
So that's all we have prepared. But like we said, this is a work session so we're in the middle of writing the language for this 00:32:05
and would love feedback on what you like, what you don't like, and how we should proceed. 00:32:10
Can I get some clarity on a few things? Yeah. 00:32:14
I missed a portion of what you were. 00:32:18
Speaking about when you said the. 00:32:20
Properties that were included. 00:32:22
And you also mentioned. 00:32:24
How we have an Adu application? 00:32:27
So this would not apply to the 80 correct? Just 880 user are treated separately under state law. 00:32:29
And so we felt that it was proper to treat them under this. So essentially we'll have one portal where it'll be like you need to 00:32:35
obtain a rental license. And from there you can say it's an accessory dwelling unit, as in I live on site and I'm renting out my 00:32:39
basement or whatever it may be. 00:32:43
Or there's the. 00:32:47
I have a house in vineyards that I don't live at and I'm renting out the whole thing. 00:32:49
OK. And then the second question that I had a. 00:32:53
On this one I have a few more questions but. 00:32:56
The housing that you mentioned along Mill Rd. having management already, does that pertain to all of our HOA's that have 00:32:59
management? 00:33:04
Oh, no, absolutely not. OK. So, so something like just excluding. Yeah. So like like the ones that are in like neighborhoods like. 00:33:08
Tucker Rowe, the Locks, the preserve, Lakefront Town Center, they'll have H ways they don't have on site management and they're 00:33:17
all individually owned units, meaning like in Lakefront for example, I think we have 700. 00:33:22
Unique owners of the condos and townhomes there, meaning there could be up to 700 rentals there with different property managers 00:33:28
and whatnot. Where the Vine, for example, we have one property manager on site at all times that we work with. So it was Vine, 00:33:33
Concord and Alloy. 00:33:38
Yeah, and. 00:33:42
Mill Point and also the orchards that are just being built right now. 00:33:44
Then you mentioned that the way that you would do enforcement, what is the rate of participation for other cities that are doing 00:33:48
it such as Orem? I I believe Orem, when I reached out to them, they said they believe they have about 50% of their properties in 00:33:52
compliance. 00:33:56
OK, how do you? 00:34:02
Are you done? 00:34:04
Yeah, go ahead, Jake. 00:34:05
How do you legally exclude certain sections like them and not like run into any issues legally? 00:34:06
Like how do we exclude like the vine? 00:34:14
So the count, yes, the Council can just say good question. 00:34:16
We're going to have this fee for some so. 00:34:19
One reason is a state law that does allow for these rental dwelling licenses requires that. 00:34:23
An owner only has to get one license regardless of how many units they got. So we could include the vine. 00:34:27
But in that case, we are and. And Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong, if you're brushed up on this, but. 00:34:32
Essentially, the Vine would get one license for all of their units and I don't know if that would do any good for the city because 00:34:38
we aren't necessarily having, we're not dealing with their parking issues. Most of those are dealt within the development 00:34:42
themselves. 00:34:46
But uh. 00:34:51
The city can. I'm just. 00:34:51
Legally we can say hey this. 00:34:53
HOA yes, this HOA no. They will have to. 00:34:56
Have a single license. 00:34:59
But other welcome. 00:35:01
It's one business. 00:35:02
Even though they're renting multiple units. 00:35:04
So what if somebody does own multiple houses? They would just have 1. You would just have one license. They they too would apply 00:35:07
for a single license and then. 00:35:10
But they they will list out all of their properties and we still could do inspections on all of those properties. I was gonna say 00:35:14
like it needs to be equal under the. 00:35:17
They and they would, they still would have the right to inspect and do other things on the property too. So Jamie, Jamie that that 00:35:21
would be a change from how it's written right now. 00:35:25
Like, yeah, well, we'll work on that language. You will need to make that change. I don't think you can exclude. 00:35:30
A business from the license requirement or a landlord, so to speak, right? 00:35:36
Everybody would be subject to it. We may need to work through. 00:35:40
The provisions on inspection just to make sure that it is applied. 00:35:44
And equitable way. 00:35:49
So how we were doing is because the apartment complexes are paying for management. So they're they're they're kind of going to 00:35:50
step above. I think that's fine. You could put an exclusion in the ordinance on that basis and then you. 00:35:56
You would for bear inspections for those types of units. I think you still ought to require a license. 00:36:02
At least a business license, yeah. 00:36:09
Yeah, well, and the rental license? 00:36:11
You you will run into other. 00:36:13
Owners that own multiple properties do also have. 00:36:16
Property management companies running them. 00:36:19
Yeah. And that's why I think the language that I originally wrote like on site. 00:36:22
Professional management meaning like. 00:36:26
There was like for example, the Vine, you can go there and you can during business hours, you can go talk to their property 00:36:28
management, you can talk to their maintenance people on site where your average mom and pop landlord don't necessarily have that 00:36:32
service available. 00:36:36
Are other cities using proactive enforcement where they're looking at parcels or are they? 00:36:41
Relying on the 50% participation rates. 00:36:48
I would say it's a mix. 00:36:51
So, so Orem, for example, they did try at the very beginning they they looked at the county data. 00:36:52
To look at, you know, duplicate records and whatnot and sent out. 00:36:57
To those specific addresses or same thing with their utility accounts. 00:37:00
But in the end, it is, it's, it's a big enforcement thing and and that's one of the reasons Maria recently went full time in our 00:37:04
department was to help gear this up and then do these inspections and, and roll out this program. 00:37:10
It just a little fact in in Vineyard. According to the last census, I believe it was about 56% of the the homes in Vineyard are 00:37:16
all rentals. 00:37:20
That includes everything, not just, you know, your high density, that's single family homes, all that 56% and. 00:37:25
Without having any kind of data or any kind of contact with. 00:37:31
A majority of the residents of Vineyard, it's really hard for us to do any kind of code enforcement or anything like that. 00:37:34
When we don't have that information. 00:37:39
That's a good question. I mean a good comment. 00:37:41
My question is. 00:37:44
According to the state law, we've had to deal with long term rental. 00:37:45
Issues for occupation and it's very difficult to. 00:37:49
Manage those especially because you're not going to notice them by parcel type. Sometimes it's two floors being rented out and 00:37:54
those come in. 00:37:57
Will it? 00:38:02
Exist. 00:38:02
The same way. I mean, we're not going to have. 00:38:04
Proactive code enforcement on that it'll it'll exist the same way it This just makes it easier to enforce the the biggest thing 00:38:05
with. 00:38:09
Occupancy is that it's really hard right now how we have it in the code. 00:38:12
To enforce because we have nothing that. 00:38:17
Allows us to have permission to do inspections. 00:38:19
We have to ask the homeowner and if the homeowner doesn't want to because they know that they're out of compliance. 00:38:23
They can say no, and at that point it becomes. 00:38:28
Either I have enough evidence to. 00:38:31
Get a subpoena. 00:38:33
Or. 00:38:34
I have to just go based off of word of mouth. 00:38:35
And just say, OK, well. 00:38:37
They're saying they have 4:00. I'm going to agree they have 4:00 because I have no proof of it. 00:38:39
Even though we might have. 00:38:43
Tools that are letting us know if we have no concrete evidence. That's the hard part. 00:38:45
Versus this if we have you know? 00:38:48
Multiple people saying, hey, we've seen that there's eight people living in this home. 00:38:51
I could say, look, you have a license. 00:38:55
You've agreed to the terms of this license, so now we can do an inspection. 00:38:57
And that way we could verify that you either are in compliance or you're out of compliance. 00:39:02
OK. So anybody that has taken the time to participate in the activity and has agreed to this type of enforcement is going to? 00:39:06
Allow you to do this and our thought is that we're going to allow 50% of the people that like to. 00:39:14
Participate, we'll say. 00:39:21
To basically kind of change the way things are going because they have a desire to follow the law. 00:39:23
Yeah. And and really a lot of it is also is just. 00:39:28
As uh. 00:39:31
The city gets older and as the city grows. 00:39:32
What a lot of these cities are trying to prevent as well is. 00:39:34
Homes that aren't being maintained, and that's a big part of it as well. 00:39:38
Is that you're ensuring that these people who are renting these homes have livable conditions at the property owner is taking care 00:39:42
of it, they're not letting it get. 00:39:45
You know, mold either not letting pestle in there, they're not letting it just. 00:39:49
Dilapidate. 00:39:53
And that's also a big thing that we're wanting to avoid now. 00:39:54
Versus later when it does start getting, you know, an issue, especially with like Orem and probably when I've talked to them, 00:39:58
that's their biggest thing. 00:40:01
Is that a lot of the time is an occupancy, a lot of the time is just their livable conditions aren't there, aren't being met. 00:40:05
And that's something that some most the times attendants aren't aware of that they can reach out to the city and say hey. 00:40:11
My home. 00:40:17
Is. 00:40:18
Having water leaks. I'm having mold. 00:40:18
What am I supposed to do? 00:40:21
And they're unaware that they can reach out to us. So the goal is to try to. 00:40:22
Inform everybody of their rights. 00:40:25
I have a question you mentioned. 00:40:28
Parking requirements. 00:40:31
Was that specifically for? 00:40:33
Did you take it up? 00:40:36
There was a parking slide in here but I think this might be an old presentation, like it's not my latest save. 00:40:37
So explain what are what your rights or abilities will be with parking requirements. 00:40:43
Yeah. So how we have the parking? 00:40:48
Right now, for example, if somebody who's renting gets towed, they're gonna call the city and they're gonna say hey. 00:40:50
I live here. 00:40:55
And I was towed and this was unfair and we. 00:40:56
Be like sorry like you were parked illegally. Have you talked to your landlord? 00:40:59
And the landlord right now has really no responsibility to provide that parking for the the tenants. 00:41:03
You know, they, there's nothing the city can do to force them to do that. So, so the, and we're still working on the language for 00:41:08
the parking to make sure it's compliant with, with state code on this. But essentially we're saying that. 00:41:13
You have to be able to every on-site parking space. 00:41:18
That you have has to be available for the tenants. We'll see some instances where somebody will. 00:41:21
Rent out a house, but they won't let their tenants park in the garage. So now their tenants are parking on the street or in the 00:41:25
driveway. So now we're saying if you have parking spaces on site, they need to be available to the tenants to use. 00:41:30
We are also requesting put in the the language that. 00:41:36
Every occupant who has a vehicle must have an off site parking space essentially. 00:41:40
So it does require that if I'm a landlord and I have a condo, say in the lakefront community where you're parking in the driveway, 00:41:45
in the garage and then you have a parking pass. 00:41:49
You can then rent up to three people. 00:41:53
Because that's the parking you're providing and you're no longer putting that burden on the the city or or other communities, 00:41:54
other neighborhoods to provide for those those landlords. 00:41:59
So for like a house. 00:42:03
Let's just say house and. 00:42:06
If they have four people living there, would you would this program? 00:42:09
Actually allow I guess. 00:42:14
Could we be allowed to require them to utilize the garage on the driveway for those four people or would? 00:42:17
Since it's a public Rd. Yeah, because we don't have a parking permit, we couldn't say you have. 00:42:22
To park on site, we have to say. 00:42:26
Provide the parking available so that's something we could check when we do our inspection and say we look at the garage and the 00:42:27
garage is jam packed as a storaging or whatever. 00:42:31
We can say we are not. 00:42:36
Permitting this or we're not going to pass this inspection because you are not providing the adequate parking for this, this need 00:42:37
or this use. 00:42:40
All right. That's a good question, Marty, because. 00:42:44
Otherwise it might conflict with ad use even though we're viewing them separately. 00:42:47
The state law is kind of the right. Yeah. No, we don't do parking. I like that this is separate from Adus, because you're right. 00:42:51
Yeah, the. 00:42:55
We can't require the additional parking spot for you, right? Right. We just have to require 4 spots and that's it. But it might 00:42:59
conflict even either way. So yeah, even if we are doing. 00:43:03
OK. 00:43:08
My question is about the 50%. 00:43:11
Don't choose to. 00:43:14
Get a license. 00:43:15
Because my guess is. 00:43:18
That house in La Chaminade that's got eight guys living in it. 00:43:20
With seven cars. 00:43:25
Or 9 cars. 00:43:28
That their landlord is. 00:43:32
Going to choose not to do that and. 00:43:34
I mean, Marty and I are probably talking about the same house. 00:43:35
But. 00:43:41
That landlords. 00:43:42
You know, just brush you off and say now I don't need that. 00:43:44
Like so in that case we do have enforcement mechanisms within this code as well as I. 00:43:47
I'm sure we could also look at enforcing our doing business without a license violations as well. So we do have some ways that we 00:43:51
could. 00:43:54
Essentially get them to come into compliance as we get those reports because essentially the other 50% that aren't necessarily 00:43:57
complying with the code. 00:44:00
Hopefully they're. 00:44:03
Just being good landlords and they're. 00:44:04
Tenants aren't causing a problem in the neighborhood. 00:44:06
For the second week, catch wind of a rental. 00:44:08
Causing a problem, we can go straight to the landlord. 00:44:11
Say, hey, we know you're operating this rental, you need to get a license. This is a new and you know what, we'll have some grace 00:44:14
is this is a new program we're rolling out, but you know, we're going to say you need to obtain a license. Here's how you're going 00:44:18
to do that You have. 00:44:22
X amount of days to come into compliance. If not, you're going to face a daily fee of X amount. 00:44:26
What are the improvements that allow you to do that enforcement? 00:44:30
What are the improvements? 00:44:34
Yeah, in this code. What is this code offer separately from what we do now that's suddenly going to allow us to have? 00:44:35
So just right now we don't require a rental to or a landlord to have a business license. 00:44:42
But now we will. 00:44:47
So we're essentially now saying you are now essentially doing business in the city of Vineyard without a license. 00:44:48
OK, I have a. 00:44:52
I have an example. 00:44:54
There is a house right now that has a lot of people living in it, but they're actually running a car dealership. 00:44:55
We hopefully took a care of that. 00:45:01
I need to take care of that. That one is actually dealt with as of now because I was going to say it's been reported. People want, 00:45:03
yeah, I got a report of it and it was taken care of within the time frame that it needed to be. So they were actually very quick 00:45:08
to comply. 00:45:12
OK. Yeah, OK. 00:45:17
Doesn't matter anymore. No, you're good. I dealt with that one. 00:45:18
I'm guessing. Any other questions? I'm guessing this doesn't change anything with Airbnbs. 00:45:23
No, so as of now Airbnbs are not permitted um. 00:45:27
And that is based on complaint basis as well. I have been handling those as they've come in when they don't have a license. How 00:45:30
are you solving that just? 00:45:34
Because our code does. 00:45:38
Explicitly state that they don't are not permitted, so we can still enforce it on that end. 00:45:39
Well, just to clarify, Sorry, sorry, Maria. Maria. 00:45:44
Pretty much right? 00:45:47
Short term rentals are allowed under a special project. So if you develop a commercial project in a commercial district that is 00:45:49
developed for short term rentals, kind of it's kind of like a hotel use. 00:45:55
But developed for that, we do have a code provision that allows that just. There's also a plethora of state codes that. 00:46:00
Kind of. 00:46:07
Bind cities hands for how they're able to do enforcement. 00:46:08
Yeah, there's an interest on torture rentals. Yeah, there was an update to the code this last legislative season that has made it 00:46:12
easier. 00:46:15
And so there are there were a couple of problem Airbnbs that have been dealt with since that. 00:46:19
Has passed. 00:46:24
OK, I know that we have a few that have been grandfathered in. I guess I'm wondering how many? 00:46:25
As of now, I have a list of three. 00:46:30
All right, Sophie. 00:46:33
A couple more, but they've been sold, so that does not roll over to the new owners. 00:46:35
Awesome. Any other questions from the Council at this time? 00:46:40
If you have any other thoughts, please send them to Maria and Cash as they work through this to bring it back to yeah, We'd love 00:46:43
to hear anybody's feedback on this. 00:46:46
As we move forward with it. 00:46:50
I just want to say well done. 00:46:51
Thanks, Sir. You've been great at helping encourage us to get this moving, so I appreciate that. Yeah, well, a year ago, right, we 00:46:52
had a parking meeting and that was one of the main concerns. 00:46:57
Was. 00:47:02
Over occupancy. So sure that that's for sure the one thing I do get on a. 00:47:03
Like a day-to-day basis is just, hey, there's so many people in this home. And so that was definitely something I was looking into 00:47:07
anyways, just because it it is an issue that we have to deal with at some point. Yeah, it makes sense for our community. So thank 00:47:12
you. Yeah. Yeah. Well done. Definitely. Thank you. 00:47:17
Thank you. 00:47:22
All right, Eric, you are going to be discussing the fuel card policy and agreement. 00:47:24
Yeah. Thank you. 00:47:30
OK, so the Vineyard city? 00:47:33
Fuel card policy is. 00:47:35
One deliverable from the audit that we've been working through. 00:47:37
To have a written. 00:47:41
Policy on this that increases accountability. It makes it easier for us to track. 00:47:43
Fuel usage. 00:47:48
And it also reduces any risk of. 00:47:50
Fraud, waste or abuse. 00:47:52
So kind of in summary and you have these before you that you can review, but. 00:47:54
The fuel fuel cars will be issued to specific vehicles. 00:47:59
The fuel card pins may be used. 00:48:03
Only for purchasing fuel for city vehicles and equipment. 00:48:06
Employees will enter accurate odometer readings, which again helps with tracking of this. 00:48:09
And vehicle identification information when prompted at the time of purchase. 00:48:15
The purchase of fuel or items for personal vehicles or non city purposes is prohibited. 00:48:23
As is splitting transactions to. 00:48:29
Bypass purchase limits. 00:48:32
As is misrepresentation of mileage, vehicle number. 00:48:34
Or other information. 00:48:38
From a monitoring standpoint, the fuel card activity shall be regularly reviewed to ensure comple. 00:48:40
Clients on this policy. 00:48:46
And it will be the supervisors who are responsible for monitoring card usage and ensuring that employees under their supervision 00:48:48
comply with the policy. 00:48:53
That's kind of a summary of that. 00:48:57
Did you have anything to add, Brett? 00:49:00
Excuse me? 00:49:04
Nothing to add, I do have questions but I'll hold off. 00:49:04
That Nope. It is now time for questions. 00:49:07
The the question I had and I this is as much so that we get an answer on record for everybody in case they're reviewing this. 00:49:10
The way the proposal reads. 00:49:21
If cards are issued to a vehicle and then you have a PIN and then there's. 00:49:25
Language about turning in cards and things like that. 00:49:30
Can you explain the relationship between? 00:49:33
The. 00:49:37
Card the vehicle and the person. 00:49:38
There's two, I guess you would. 00:49:42
Say there's two different types of relationships. 00:49:44
There are. 00:49:46
Vehicles that are assigned to individuals and so those ones would have. 00:49:47
Single pin for that driver. 00:49:51
And that driver is expected to always use that same card for that same vehicle. 00:49:54
Then there are shared vehicles in the city. 00:49:59
And with the shared vehicles? 00:50:02
The card will stay with the vehicle. 00:50:05
And anyone that's using that card will have to again use the same protocol so they enter the odometer. 00:50:07
And and that way over time you can kind of track. 00:50:14
The mileage used with the. 00:50:18
With the fuel used and from an audit standpoint, that's what they're kind of looking for is. 00:50:20
Is. 00:50:26
Variations. Kind of. 00:50:27
That extend beyond the expected for that amount of mileage. 00:50:28
And that vehicle, so that's that's how those two different types would work. And Christy has a thought too. 00:50:33
Just the pins for each employee will be different. So that's how we will know which employee put gas in that vehicle. That was 00:50:39
going to be my next question, so. 00:50:44
Excellent. 00:50:50
Any other questions? 00:50:53
No, I'd just say well done like. 00:50:58
Without this information, you're not able to track and understand or even investigate. And now with this ability, you'll be able 00:51:00
to. 00:51:03
Ascertain where issues are or arise if they come in. So good job, Brett. 00:51:07
Team and everyone. So yeah. 00:51:12
Thank you, Eric and Christy. 00:51:13
We'll move on to our transportation utility fee. 00:51:16
And we have a few people coming up. 00:51:21
Cody and Hales. 00:51:24
Cody Dieter with EFG Consulting and Hales Engineering is here. Naseem is anybody from our team? 00:51:27
Working on this as well. 00:51:33
I just want to make sure I. 00:51:35
State everybody's name who's presenting. 00:51:36
Just those two that you mentioned. 00:51:51
OK, mostly just me. I think so. OK. 00:51:52
While this is coming up, I just want to express appreciation to staff. 00:51:57
For their assistance with this project, they've been professional and very helpful. 00:52:01
As we've gone through this. 00:52:07
You've got a great staff. 00:52:10
So you should be. 00:52:11
Grateful for their work. 00:52:13
Thank you. 00:52:14
All right, do I just push the thing? Is that what I do? 00:52:22
There we go. OK, I got it. 00:52:28
I think so. 00:52:31
It was scared of you, so just take a second. 00:52:35
All right, so the first thing to share about the transportation utility fee is. 00:52:39
The statute currently does not exist. This explicitly allows the city to charge a transportation utility fee. In 2016, I assisted 00:52:43
Pleasant Grove City. 00:52:48
With the implement implementation of their transportation utility fee, the first in the state. 00:52:53
It was taken to the Supreme Court. So this ruling. 00:52:58
Now provides. 00:53:02
The only legal pathway currently. 00:53:03
For a city to charge a transportation utility fee, there was a proposed legislation last year that did not pass. 00:53:06
And it's likely that that will come back in the future and it will follow, we think if it follows the statute that was proposed 00:53:13
last year, it'll be similar to this. 00:53:18
So So what the the reason you have the authority to? 00:53:23
Levy a transportation utility fee or charge a transportation utility fee is under 10884 just the. 00:53:26
The general welfare of the city and your ability to. 00:53:34
Promote the things that are involved with running a city. 00:53:38
Specifically. 00:53:42
This ruling said you need to have a clear link between the demand for service. 00:53:43
That you're providing and what you charge. 00:53:49
So it's a very reasonable and sensible. 00:53:51
Link that needs to be created. The second is that you need to have a utility fee fund which you already have. 00:53:56
So that all of those expenses fall into this fund, It's easy to track. 00:54:02
For those residents of your city. 00:54:07
So we have followed that. 00:54:09
Methodology. 00:54:11
I had a quick question. Go ahead. 00:54:13
Just to make sure I understood you properly. 00:54:15
You said. 00:54:18
Legislation has come forward and it did not pass, but it might come back this legislative session. And your what you said was. 00:54:19
But you still feel like what you're presenting before us. 00:54:27
Will meet those changes, yes. 00:54:30
So it won't. 00:54:32
Suddenly come back because. 00:54:34
We had this. 00:54:35
Be and then we paused it. 00:54:37
And that's why we have some of this and now we would be resuming it because we waited for the Supreme Court ruling to go through. 00:54:39
That's correct. Yes. All right. So we're following that legislation, even if it didn't pass, we're following the same guidelines 00:54:43
that are provided therein and they. 00:54:48
Really, there's a little bit of nuance here, Mayor at the. 00:54:53
Pleasant Grove City was. 00:54:56
I'll say the bleeding edge. 00:54:58
Of. 00:54:59
Implementing this. 00:55:00
Where they implemented it, it was challenged. As he mentioned, it went to the Supreme Court. 00:55:01
Supreme Court decided. 00:55:06
The question before the Supreme Court was. 00:55:08
Is there transportation utility fee, a fee or a tax and there's a different process for? 00:55:11
Implementing. 00:55:15
Each thing and for transportation taxes there are specific sections and state code that limit. 00:55:16
Who can and under what circumstance they can implement those taxes? 00:55:22
The Supreme Court. 00:55:26
Said it's a fee, not a tax. 00:55:28
And then remanded it back down to the District Court for. 00:55:30
Pleasant Grove City to implement. 00:55:34
The fee. 00:55:36
And basically wait and see is that going to be challenged? 00:55:37
My understanding, and you'll probably have better information than I do on this, is that Pleasant Grove has now done that. 00:55:41
And. 00:55:47
That. 00:55:48
They don't believe it has been challenged, and my understanding with the legislature is they're basically in the holding pattern 00:55:49
to see how that shakes out. 00:55:52
And then? 00:55:56
What they'll try to do is implement legislation that will mirror. 00:55:57
What Pleasant Grove City and what other cities are doing. 00:56:02
To implement this so that that is kind of where we're at right now. 00:56:05
Is trying. 00:56:09
Replicate what Pleasant Grove City has done. 00:56:10
And have that in place and our expectation. I think my understanding of what the Legislature said fits pretty well with how you 00:56:13
described it. 00:56:17
OK. Thank you. You're welcome. 00:56:22
This slide is a. 00:56:25
Helpful exhibit. 00:56:27
To talk about. 00:56:29
That good roads cost less. 00:56:31
So the concept is you do receive money. 00:56:33
Right now from your general fund and from Class C Rd. funds and the sales tax. 00:56:35
But it is not currently sufficient. 00:56:42
To invest in your roadway so you can see that this. 00:56:44
Line here that starts off with $1,000,000 road and it goes down overtime the value of that road. Meaning if you got to year 10 you 00:56:48
would need to inject 300,000. 00:56:54
To get it back to where it was before and it has a very steep slope. So good roads cost less. If if we come in and and inject, you 00:56:59
know, 50,000 every five years in a good pavement management system, that is significantly cheaper than waiting for it to go all 00:57:06
the way down to a complete rebuild in year 20 to 25 and people are happier. 00:57:12
They don't have potholes in front of their house in year 10 or forward. 00:57:20
So that's just a good context about YFE is being considered by you and many other cities in the state right now. 00:57:25
Here's an overview of the methodology that we utilized. 00:57:32
So we first looked at all of your operating costs. 00:57:36
That go into the street department. 00:57:38
And extrapolate those forward for you know 1015 year period, we looked at all the capital projects so. 00:57:40
Josh with Hell's Engineering recently completed a master plan, transportation master plan that looks at all of your roadways, the 00:57:47
capacity, what's going to be needed over the next 10 or 15 years, including what's needed for. 00:57:53
Annual pavement management. 00:58:00
That's just generally needed across the city. 00:58:02
We then looked at the need for debt, if that would be needed to fund some of these. 00:58:05
These larger projects that have. 00:58:09
You know, 20 year lifespan and covering those rather than saving money. 00:58:12
To fund those up front. 00:58:17
Then applied financial metrics like how much money should you have in the rainy day fund in case there's a major emergency that 00:58:20
occurs? And also if you know when should debt be considered and how should that be looked at? 00:58:26
Then ultimately that landed with a revenue requirement. What is the annual revenue needed every year to ensure that you can 00:58:32
implement this system? 00:58:36
And then the final piece is then how do you go about collecting that revenue from users of your system in a fair and equitable 00:58:40
way? 00:58:44
So let's talk about a few of those things. We have developed a financial forecast. 00:58:48
And I could put the spreadsheet up there, I can provide it to you. 00:58:54
It has a tendency to put people to sleep, so this picture hopefully is more intuitive than a spreadsheet. 00:58:57
So this is a look at the expenditures. 00:59:04
Both historically for the last two years and what we project. 00:59:06
For the next. 00:59:09
10 years. 00:59:10
As you can see the green on the top. 00:59:11
Is your capital projects. 00:59:14
It's a meaningful amount of money. 00:59:16
That includes both new. 00:59:18
Development and. 00:59:19
Primarily. 00:59:21
Pavement Management. 00:59:21
The orange is another large piece on the bottom that is personnel. 00:59:23
And then the blue. 00:59:28
Piece in the middle. 00:59:31
Would be. 00:59:32
Using debt to pay for. 00:59:33
Large projects here. 00:59:36
That assumption is that. 00:59:38
That debt would be issued. 00:59:41
Secured by this transportation utility fee, it would not be a general obligation bond. 00:59:43
Excise tax or sales tax bond? It would be solely. 00:59:48
Dependent upon the utility fee itself. 00:59:52
So that would be. 00:59:55
Something that would be a proactive way to help. 00:59:57
Pay for those costs over the life of those assets by those who are being charged the fee upfront. 00:59:59
Here's another look at the capital projects. It's approximately $41 million. 01:00:07
Over the next 10 years. 01:00:13
The projects are listed there. 01:00:16
On the right, so the biggest is 28 million. 01:00:18
Almost 29 million of. 01:00:21
Of costs for pavement preservation. 01:00:23
And that is, you know, the annual amount that you're implementing. 01:00:26
We've also included the streetlights in this, so it's both a transportation and a streetlight fee. 01:00:30
So it would be updating your annual streetlight maintenance and then these. 01:00:36
Other projects. 01:00:40
You know 7-8 projects there are. 01:00:42
New capital projects that will be needed to be funded. 01:00:45
If you have any questions about any of those capital projects, I am not the person to ask, but Josh is here and it seems here as 01:00:48
well to answer any of those questions that you might have. 01:00:52
So I'll pause in case you have questions about any of those. 01:00:57
Capital projects. 01:01:00
Looking at your revenue structure. 01:01:06
The dark green at the bottom. 01:01:08
Is classy Rd. funds? 01:01:11
As you know, those come from. 01:01:13
The state gas tax. 01:01:14
That you pay at the pump. 01:01:17
The lighter green is the transportation tax, which is a portion of the sales tax. 01:01:19
We are considering implementing an impact fee. 01:01:24
And with. 01:01:27
Meaningful growth you have in the community that does have a large impact. 01:01:28
But as I mean it's obvious here the. 01:01:33
The rate revenue from. 01:01:35
This fee would be. 01:01:37
By and large, the largest portion of. 01:01:38
Of the revenue stream. 01:01:41
That we would be considering. 01:01:43
And just a note here that. 01:01:46
That we still have obligations. 01:01:47
To use those funds both. 01:01:49
The fee funds and the classy Rd. funds and others. 01:01:52
There's specific restrictions on how those funds would be used, so we're assuming that all those would be used. 01:01:55
Appropriately. 01:02:00
A couple of financial metrics to look at cash reserves. 01:02:04
It's important to. 01:02:07
Have a healthy fund balance. This will be an enterprise fund, meaning it needs to be self supporting. 01:02:09
So having a healthy cash balance is important. 01:02:14
The industry standard for cash balance is one year's worth of operating expenditures. 01:02:18
That's the same for your water and sewer utilities. That's probably how your rates were developed there. 01:02:23
So this shows that throughout that period you generally are above or below. 01:02:28
You know, here in 2033 you have a large capital project. As we get to that point, we may choose to. 01:02:32
To issue data if it helps with this issue but. 01:02:38
That far out? 01:02:41
It's not a huge problem to have a little bit below. 01:02:42
So it shows that this projection that we're meeting a healthy cash reserve overtime. 01:02:46
This slide. 01:02:52
Coverage. 01:02:53
What it means Debt service coverage. 01:02:54
And what that means is when you issue debt. 01:02:57
Lenders want to know or investors want to know that you have. 01:03:00
Healthy fund that covers operations first. 01:03:03
So this would be called a debt service coverage ratio, a net debt service pledge, meaning after you fund all of your operation and 01:03:08
maintenance and then you pay debt. 01:03:13
This blue line would mean you'd have a dollar and a quarter worth of. 01:03:18
Of revenue leftover to pay for every dollar worth of debt. 01:03:22
And you can see the orange line, you have a very healthy. 01:03:26
Coverage ratio, meaning you have the ability, if you chose to do so, to issue more debt in the future. 01:03:31
To help pay for these projects moving forward. 01:03:37
It's a very healthy. 01:03:39
Metric. 01:03:40
There's a lot going on here on this slide, but this represents. 01:03:42
Though both the growth rate. 01:03:45
In your community. 01:03:47
Measured on the right. 01:03:48
And. 01:03:50
The. 01:03:51
Likely or the. 01:03:52
The projected annual increase in rates measured on the right as well in these two orange lines. 01:03:54
So this orange line shows. 01:04:00
The annual rate increase would be around 3%. 01:04:02
And this. 01:04:06
Lighter orange shows that you're growing at about 9%, which isn't a surprise to you have a very. 01:04:08
Quick growing community. 01:04:14
The line that you care most about is what is the rate? 01:04:16
Per month. 01:04:19
Per equivalent residential unit. So for a resident or for. 01:04:20
An equivalent residential unit. 01:04:24
We're starting off at $5. 01:04:26
Moving up to around 7:00 and then by year 3. 01:04:29
$9 and then growing at 3% thereafter. 01:04:33
So looking at that more granularly so you can see it, it's this $5 number right here. 01:04:37
Would be the cost. 01:04:42
Dwelling Unit. 01:04:44
So let's just talk a little bit here on this rate structure. 01:04:47
We it's titled adjusted for axle. 01:04:51
So the equitable way to determine how you should allocate this fee is by. 01:04:55
Both. How many trips? 01:05:00
Each type of. 01:05:02
Zone generates. 01:05:04
So a residential unit is the base. 01:05:07
They have about what is it 7 or 8? 01:05:09
Trips. 01:05:11
7 or 8 trips per day. 01:05:12
So that's like the. 01:05:14
You know, just one trip. 01:05:16
That how does that equate to if you have an office or retail or commercial or industrial? 01:05:17
They have an equivalent adjustment. 01:05:22
But we're also adjusting for the fact that. 01:05:25
One small car is not the same as a semi truck. 01:05:28
So they have very different impacts on your Rd. system. 01:05:32
So the structure that we're suggesting to you is weighted by both trips and by axle weight. 01:05:35
So if we look at this column here. 01:05:41
The. 01:05:44
By type. 01:05:45
What we're suggesting to you is an office. 01:05:47
1000 square feet of office. 01:05:50
Has four times the impact. 01:05:52
That one residential unit has. 01:05:55
And retail and commercial has seven. 01:05:57
Almost 8 times. 01:05:59
The impact an industrial has almost. 01:06:00
9 1/2 times the impact of one residential unit. Those are all per 1000 square feet. 01:06:03
So we're suggesting that you should. 01:06:09
Weight more heavily the fee. 01:06:12
Because their impact is more. 01:06:14
Than a standard residential unit. 01:06:18
So the outcome here is if we have $5 is the residential rate. 01:06:21
Per unit. 01:06:26
The office would be $36. 01:06:27
Per 1000 square feet. 01:06:30
Retail commercial 70 and $0.50 per thousand. 01:06:32
And industrial $91.75 per thousand. 01:06:36
Is this a month? 01:06:39
Per month. 01:06:41
To the to the owner of the home. 01:06:45
So yeah, to the owner of the home, it would be $5. 01:06:47
Per month put on their utility fee. 01:06:51
Put on their utility be. 01:06:53
Garbage. 01:06:54
Water. Sewer. 01:06:55
Transportation utility fee. 01:06:56
That's right. 01:06:58
And so then a. 01:07:04
An office that's 2000 square feet of office would have. 01:07:07
$72 and. 01:07:10
$0.04. 01:07:11
Yes, per month, every month. That's correct. 01:07:12
And for illustration purposes, these are. This is the amount of. 01:07:18
Square footage that you have. 01:07:21
In each of those types. 01:07:23
In your community right now. 01:07:26
So you have. 01:07:27
278. 01:07:29
1000 square feet of office. 01:07:31
That's commercial and that's industrial. 01:07:33
We're also suggesting a specific. 01:07:39
Unique fee. 01:07:41
For just those businesses along 1750 N. 01:07:42
That road is in need of reconstruction. 01:07:46
So for a five year period there would be an additional. 01:07:49
$7.55. 01:07:53
Added to. 01:07:56
Their rate in that area specifically. 01:07:57
So that they could recoup that over a five year period. 01:08:02
Again, just a sample size. 01:08:07
Like you're you're talking about. 01:08:09
Councilman Clawson here's If it was 5000 square feet, this would what the fee would be per month. 01:08:11
For each of those users. 01:08:16
In terms of comparables these it's kind of small, but you can see there. 01:08:23
There are other communities that provide. 01:08:26
Charge this fee the most. 01:08:29
Comparable right now would be the city of South Salt Lake that's just recently adopted. 01:08:31
Their fee? 01:08:35
Using Axel 8. 01:08:37
Same structure. 01:08:38
They have chosen not to implement the residential fee. They will cover that through a general fund subsidy. 01:08:40
Because of the. 01:08:45
Council council's choice to do that. 01:08:47
Pleasant Grove you can see here. 01:08:50
This is a similar fee structure. You know they based on trips, not on axle load. 01:08:52
Same with provoke. 01:08:57
Kaysville and South Ogden. South Ogden has. 01:08:59
An enormous list. I think they have like. 01:09:02
15 or 20 different categories. 01:09:06
So you can. 01:09:08
It's much more detailed. 01:09:09
So you're generally in line with how those others work. There are other communities on this slide that are less detailed. They 01:09:11
just charge a fee, a flat fee. 01:09:15
So. 01:09:19
Highland, Mapleton. Pleasant. 01:09:20
View South Weber. 01:09:21
Fruit Heights, Farmington. They're just a very. 01:09:24
Simple flat fee. These have been in place for a while. 01:09:26
So that's what I have to share today. I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. 01:09:28
Great counsel, do you have any questions right now? If not, you can. 01:09:35
Schedule a meeting or. 01:09:39
Have a sit down. 01:09:40
Send an e-mail. 01:09:42
When is this being considered to be brought back to vote on? 01:09:45
I believe it's the 10th, is that right? 01:09:48
Yeah, of December 10th. 01:09:50
Yeah. 01:09:51
Any other questions? 01:09:55
Thank you. I do I. 01:09:59
I think it would be interesting to see some different models where the residential side is less. 01:10:02
And what that what kind of impact that might have on? 01:10:07
Businesses if. 01:10:11
So less than $5 changed some of those numbers. 01:10:13
OK. So I want to say the number that's been on our fee schedule, you know I'm looking over across there to. 01:10:16
Make sure I get right. It's 3:50. 01:10:23
Is what was on the. 01:10:25
The the the the old one. 01:10:26
Was 350, it was 350 and we just haven't been collecting it five years ago. And so this this number is kind of the inflation 01:10:28
adjusted version of that. 01:10:32
Sorry, but I would be curious what it would look like if. 01:10:38
For example, we just left it at the 3:50 in. 01:10:42
Then change some of those ratios. 01:10:45
If we're allowed to do that. 01:10:48
I can't. I don't understand why we wouldn't be allowed to do it, but we can do anything. 01:10:51
As long as it's fair, every long as everyone is treated fairly. 01:10:55
Within their category. 01:10:57
Yeah, I'm very concerned about this. 01:11:03
Because a year ago I talked about the failure of the RDA to bring in businesses to be able to. 01:11:05
Bring a tax structure. 01:11:11
Strong enough? 01:11:14
To be able to fund the city. 01:11:15
And this actually proves this, that we don't have a tax base here. 01:11:17
And this is finding another way to be able to. 01:11:22
To provide for our roads. 01:11:24
And I think having an open conversation, not attacking anyone. 01:11:26
But just being an open, honest. 01:11:30
Conversation of. 01:11:32
We are 15. 01:11:33
Or 2006. 01:11:35
19 years into the RDA. 01:11:38
And big businesses haven't come. 01:11:40
In and that's scary. 01:11:42
Because. 01:11:45
You have to turn to structures and I remember when Pleasant Grove. 01:11:47
Put this in and it was extremely controversial. 01:11:52
And anyone hearing this today? 01:11:55
Going January or December 10th is going to go. 01:11:57
Wow, that's a That's a huge. 01:12:00
You know, tax, it's a fee. 01:12:02
So it's not a tax. 01:12:05
And I remember the fight. 01:12:07
Fighting over. 01:12:08
Taxes and fees and. 01:12:09
And all of that. But thanks for the presentation. It's helpful. 01:12:11
You have to fund. 01:12:16
A government. 01:12:18
Right, but it just tells us how. 01:12:19
Essential. 01:12:21
The success and failure of our RDA is. 01:12:23
Well, I don't know. 01:12:29
Where there's so many cities that charge this, I don't know that you can say that specifically for the RDA. The RDA is in. 01:12:30
Progress. 01:12:36
And will be happening for the next. 01:12:38
25 to 50 years. 01:12:40
So 25 years from now, maybe. 01:12:42
But it's it's going to take time. 01:12:44
I don't have, I don't have a problem with the residential. I mean I spent an extra $4.00 for an extra garbage can, so. 01:12:47
So that one doesn't. 01:12:53
Bother me but the industrial seems so high. 01:12:55
Right. So it's like. 01:12:58
As a business owner. 01:13:00
You know, I'm thinking of the little businesses in the yard. 01:13:02
You know that it? 01:13:05
Feels like. 01:13:06
A big expense. 01:13:07
You know, but I could be wrong. 01:13:09
Well, So what I wonder is if. 01:13:11
Is if you could. 01:13:13
Somehow. 01:13:15
If if the businesses could show that they're creating a certain amount of. 01:13:16
Tax benefit. 01:13:20
To the city, if that. 01:13:22
If they could get a credit. 01:13:23
I don't know just well, I mean, I look at because I'm a business owner like we have a FedEx warehouse and vineyard. 01:13:26
And the wear and tear they put on the roads. 01:13:32
Versus. 01:13:35
What I put on the roads. So I mean, I see. 01:13:37
But not every. 01:13:39
Business and. 01:13:40
And Vineyard. 01:13:42
Not every industrial business has the same type of traffic as the FedEx warehouse, but. 01:13:44
I definitely see the value in this structure. 01:13:48
I think that tying it to the RDA. 01:13:52
Is kind of just like a. 01:13:56
We can analyze it and criticize it and dig into it all day long, but I think what you have to decide is. 01:13:58
How are you going to move in the future to pay for your roads? 01:14:05
So that's a, that's a good question. I wonder is there anything? 01:14:09
Because when we talk about businesses coming in. 01:14:14
And the rate of businesses and the RDA has been providing the backbone infrastructure and roads. 01:14:16
And we're really lucky. 01:14:22
To have that. 01:14:23
We've increased our businesses by like 50% over the last few years. 01:14:25
But to. 01:14:30
Point we do have to offset that, so if there was. 01:14:31
Do in your comparables. 01:14:36
Do are we looking at the economic? 01:14:39
Balance between. 01:14:41
The different cities and how much they're paying and how big of a. 01:14:43
Economic base they have. 01:14:47
Have have we been able to do that? I don't even know if that's something that you examine when looking at Rd. base and stuff. But 01:14:49
maybe together as a team we can take your study and then we can do those comparables ourselves and then as your take away, I 01:14:54
guess. 01:14:58
For what the Council is asking for. 01:15:03
Its models going back to our 350. 01:15:05
Is that something that we can look into and say, what does that look like? I mean, I think I saw Farmington was 350. Maybe we can 01:15:08
just compare those two. 01:15:12
So here's the first one where they have a detailed schedule. 01:15:18
So just look at that and then let me know when you want to look at the other. 01:15:21
Yeah, and then council, maybe what we could do is. 01:15:27
Take the time to sit down and meet with these guys and you can look at the different comparables. You can look at the ones that 01:15:30
are subsidizing. 01:15:34
You can look at the ones that have a lower model, like I think it was Farmington, and then maybe between our team and your team we 01:15:38
can look at. 01:15:42
What the business? 01:15:46
You know what their business base is there and what they're providing and then how they're offsetting it with. 01:15:48
Transportation fees. I do like how Pleasant Grove has a Tier 1 and Tier 2 commercial that would be interesting to. 01:15:53
See how that could be reflected in ours. 01:16:00
'Cause I mean. 01:16:03
No, nothing against FedEx, but I definitely feel like they should be paying more than. 01:16:06
A different warehouse if I could ask them and that that would be something good to look at because we have industrial your your 01:16:11
trucks are a lot heavier you're, you know like there's. 01:16:15
Just the weight of the vehicles is going to have a much bigger impact, so there might be some. 01:16:20
Usefulness in looking at. 01:16:25
OK, so I feel like everybody has their tasks. 01:16:28
Council, you're going to go sit down and look at these comparables that already came through. We're going to look at the business 01:16:31
base of all these comparables and then you guys are going to model the Farmington 350 kind of lower thing. 01:16:35
OK awesome, this is so helpful. 01:16:41
Any something to add, Eric? Just one quick clarification based on. 01:16:43
Question and. 01:16:47
It kind of teetered on two different categories. 01:16:48
Home based businesses will be treated as residential. 01:16:51
There won't be an added fee because you have a. 01:16:54
Whatever the home based business is. So it'll be $5 for those. 01:16:57
It's only when it goes to actual commercial that you'll see that adjustment to. 01:17:01
Commercial categories. 01:17:06
OK, awesome. 01:17:09
Thank you, Council. 01:17:11
All right, Jamie, this brings us to 3.4. This is the Vineyard Municipal Code amendment for Title 2. 01:17:14
Administration and Jamie's going to present. 01:17:21
Some of these changes. 01:17:25
Thank you, Mayor. 01:18:06
I have just a few slides to introduce this. 01:18:08
As you all know. 01:18:11
Last November. 01:18:14
Citizens elected or voted to. 01:18:15
Move from A5 to A6 member council form of government. 01:18:18
The election this fall reflected that, and so elected to the Council were. 01:18:22
Enough council members to form. 01:18:26
6 member. 01:18:28
Council form of government. 01:18:29
What that means is 5 council members and a non voting mayor. 01:18:31
On most issues. 01:18:35
With this change. 01:18:37
The city has to update its municipal code to reflect that. 01:18:38
Change. There are a few simple changes that will. 01:18:42
Need to be made. 01:18:46
Again. 01:18:47
The the ordinance that's been. 01:18:48
Presented. What we've attempted to do is clarify how that authority administratively and executively and among the Council. 01:18:50
Will function under the new form of. 01:18:59
Government. 01:19:01
The Council, of course, has statutory authority to establish policy and legislation in the city. 01:19:01
The mayor provides leadership and representation. 01:19:08
For the city and the city manager. 01:19:13
Handles the administration side, the daily operations side. 01:19:16
Of city government. 01:19:20
The state code references 103B306 that relates to 6 member council form of government and again to restate a little bit. 01:19:22
The council's legislative body returns all those powers. The mayor's the chief executive. 01:19:30
And then perform certain statutory functions and then the council by ordinance. 01:19:36
Is allowed to delegate executive or administrative duties to a city manager. 01:19:41
And they, you know. 01:19:45
Maintain flexibility overtime to remove or reinstate those duties as needed. 01:19:46
The. 01:19:51
These are the mayor's statutory powers, and they're reflected in. 01:19:52
The proposed ordinance. 01:19:56
The policy goals of the proposed ordinance are to protect the mayor's leadership and ceremonial roles. 01:19:59
Maintain the current delegation of day-to-day operations to a professional city manager so the code doesn't. 01:20:05
Upset anything that's occurring right now, but carries out forward to the new form of government. 01:20:12
Ensures that the city manager is accountable to the council as a body, not to individual members of the council. 01:20:18
And then maintains the rules applicable to transparency efficiency. 01:20:24
And good governance. 01:20:28
There are. 01:20:30
Some proposed code updates that include four different sections in Title 2, Chapter 4. 01:20:31
They relate to the mayor's duty. 01:20:38
The delegation of executive and administrative duties among the. 01:20:40
City manager and the mayor. 01:20:44
The definition of the city manager and the city manager's role. 01:20:47
And how the city manager functions visa via the mayor and the City Council. 01:20:52
And then sections on administrative route. 01:20:56
Relations among in between. 01:20:59
The Council. 01:21:02
And the mayor. And the city manager. 01:21:03
There also is a section that we needed to make a few adjustments to to make sure the two code sections interrelate and these are 01:21:05
the. 01:21:08
Provisions in 2.08 point 010. 01:21:12
That established the office of the city manager. How the city manager is appointed. 01:21:16
What the bonding, salary, term removal process, those kinds of things are? 01:21:20
And then making sure that if there are any conflicts between the two sections which which section controls. 01:21:25
I won't belabor the points, this is just a summary of. 01:21:33
What's in the document? But again, the goal was to clarify rather than change. 01:21:36
The existing practice make sure the code is aligned with. 01:21:41
The state. 01:21:44
Code sections that relate to A6 member framework. 01:21:46
Strengthen the partnership between elected leadership and professional administration and allow Vineyard to continue. 01:21:50
Operating as it has. 01:21:56
So. 01:21:58
In terms of next steps, this is being presented tonight for discussion and feedback from the Council. 01:21:59
In a work session at the next meeting, it will be brought forward with the formal ordinance for adoption. 01:22:04
We need to make sure it's adopted before the end of the year so that when the new. 01:22:11
Council is seated in. The new mayor is sworn in. 01:22:15
That this will be in place. 01:22:18
For them to function under that structure. 01:22:20
All right. Any questions or comments from the City Council? 01:22:23
With the vote, the new council can adjust. 01:22:32
Things as necessary, right to their liking. 01:22:35
There are certain statutory. 01:22:38
Duties and obligations that of course they can't change, but they have flexibility to. 01:22:40
Change order. Assign the delegation of. 01:22:45
What things the mayor does, what things the city manager does. 01:22:48
Yeah, on the administrative. 01:22:51
Side of that and we have the full thing to now yeah you have the. 01:22:54
Text. It's in the packet. 01:22:57
And you're welcome to look at that if you have things that you would like. 01:22:59
To discuss or talk through or change between now and the next meeting. 01:23:03
Ping me and we can. 01:23:07
And work on that. 01:23:09
OK. Any other questions or comments? 01:23:11
Thank you so much. I would just say inviting all citizens and to do a social media post about. 01:23:14
The ordinances and changes and post the. 01:23:20
The uh. 01:23:23
The detailed stuff online so that they can give us feedback before the next meeting because it is a big. 01:23:24
It's a happy thing, you know, that we all worked on on the change of government and. 01:23:29
Getting feedback before the next meeting would be cool. 01:23:34
OK. 01:23:36
Eric is on that. 01:23:39
3.5 is going to be continued. 01:23:41
Do we need a motion to continue this item or can I? 01:23:44
Assign it to a different agenda. 01:23:47
Do we need to make a motion? No. You. 01:23:54
You don't need to make a motion. You can simply continue it. I think the reason for the continuance is it's notice for a hearing 01:23:56
before the Planning Commission and OK. 01:24:00
My recommendation is to allow the Planning Commission. 01:24:04
For the hearing and for them to. 01:24:07
Fulfill their. 01:24:09
Obligations. 01:24:11
Before it come to the Council for decision. OK, perfect. Thank you so much. 01:24:12
Brian, I believe you are up with 3.6 for the mountain bike park location. 01:24:16
Discussion. 01:24:22
Real quick. 01:24:24
Why the why the push of all the way fields just not ready. Oh that is the one we were just talking about with the notice of the 01:24:25
hearing that went to the Planning Commission and so we're gonna have it go to the Planning Commission and then it'll go to the 01:24:30
council. OK the amendments at the request of the developer, but the. 01:24:35
The development agreement contains administrative and legislative. 01:24:41
I think aspects, so it requires a public hearing and it's I just think the preferred way to do it is. 01:24:45
Allow the hearing to occur at the Planning Commission where it really needs to before. 01:24:51
It comes to the council. If it comes to the council first, then they're. 01:24:55
Or questions of. 01:24:58
You know, did we predetermine what would occur? 01:24:59
In that hearing and how the Planning Commission would make its recommendation. 01:25:01
Any other questions on that one? 01:25:07
OK. Go ahead, Brian. 01:25:10
OK, Good evening, Brian Vaudrey, Vineyard Parks and Rec Director. 01:25:12
I wanted to show you the central corridor plan, just briefly. 01:25:16
To propose potential amendment. 01:25:21
Of the location of the dirt pump track. 01:25:24
So on the. 01:25:27
Senator Corridor plan has. 01:25:28
The Dirt Pump track across the street from Gammon Park. 01:25:30
I'm proposing that we move it. 01:25:36
To the City Hall. 01:25:39
Location. 01:25:40
For three reasons in particular. 01:25:43
The first reason it would be. 01:25:45
Super close to parking. 01:25:48
Whereas over here. 01:25:50
You have to cross a street. 01:25:51
That is a busy center St. 01:25:54
This would also. 01:25:58
Be already Vineyard city owned land. 01:26:00
Whereas this current portion is not. 01:26:04
And then at the City Hall, it would also allow us to have a stronger application for. 01:26:07
Our skate park. 01:26:14
Grant. 01:26:16
Application that we'll be putting out in January. 01:26:17
And so I just wanted to. 01:26:21
See if. 01:26:25
There's any concerns with us? 01:26:26
Pursuing that potential option. 01:26:29
Who owns the wind property that was out? 01:26:31
Oh yeah, sorry, let me show you the. 01:26:34
Picture. 01:26:36
I don't know what you call that. OK, so essentially this is what is being. 01:26:37
Proposed. 01:26:41
The green area is where the. 01:26:42
Potential skate park would go. 01:26:45
The red area. 01:26:48
Would be a potential asphalt or modular pump track. 01:26:49
And then the yellow area would. 01:26:54
Be the potential area for the. 01:26:57
Dirt pump track and potential jump lines and skill area. 01:26:59
OK. Because we had this discussion with the central corridor plan, I think it would be really helpful to send out a message to 01:27:04
that area that had it before and let them know that due to the additional parking that would be required for that area, this is 01:27:11
the new location. So that when this comes back or that change occurs that the. 01:27:17
They can make comment. 01:27:23
Great. 01:27:25
Mayor, if I can just add one thing too, and I don't know if you touched on this or not, but. 01:27:27
Yes. So you did mention like Center St. being really busy, but having a bathroom and so like having so the kids don't have to run 01:27:31
across a busy Rd. just to use a bathroom and then come back across again. So yeah, that would be really good to add. 01:27:37
OK. 01:27:44
How in terms of space, how does this? 01:27:47
Space in terms of size. 01:27:50
Compare with the. 01:27:52
The current central quarter plan. 01:27:54
This is much bigger. 01:27:57
So, um. 01:27:59
I guess as far as size wise. 01:28:02
I'm sorry, I don't know the number completely off the top of my head. I could measure it in like a minute and get back to you. 01:28:05
OK. But it's, but this is, yeah, this is much bigger. 01:28:11
OK. So I would also expect that. 01:28:15
Bigger means more expensive. 01:28:17
We may not have those numbers. 01:28:21
Yes. So in terms of a grant application, we're now talking about trying to get something. 01:28:23
More. 01:28:28
Yes, so. 01:28:29
With the central corridor, planet just had this little smaller area. 01:28:31
The initial plan was to actually have it go up further. 01:28:35
Just pending the neighbors approval. 01:28:40
Of being fine with that. So essentially if we did that option, neighbors were fine with it, it'd be about the same size there as 01:28:42
it would be. 01:28:46
Coming here to the City Hall. 01:28:49
OK, Do you mind if we? 01:28:53
Go through a few of your items. 01:28:56
There's no other questions on this one. 01:28:58
For comments. 01:29:02
How did flagship? 01:29:09
Like we had the pump track park and that used to be. 01:29:12
Delineated wetlands. How is it not anymore? 01:29:15
On the side where the contract was. 01:29:18
I see value. 01:29:22
Now partial. 01:29:24
Sorry, so no seem to know about the works director. 01:29:25
In regards to the what answers hasn't officially been dealing with excuse me on that. So we we went through environmental wetlands 01:29:28
study on that and we were able to determine where the what they call the merchant wetlands vegetation is in each of the areas so 01:29:36
and the area behind Grove Park. 01:29:43
We've identified the areas there. 01:29:51
And also what they call the fish hook area, which is right to kind of. 01:29:53
South of Gammon Park and Bio City Hall. 01:29:57
The two areas there. 01:30:00
And then based on the. 01:30:03
Within survey that we had conducted. 01:30:05
And the report that we have ready for the United States Army Corps of Engineers. 01:30:08
That. 01:30:13
Our consultants has. 01:30:14
Made a. 01:30:16
Determination that the. 01:30:18
Area. That's the fish hook area. 01:30:19
The the vegetation there is. 01:30:23
Considered non jurisdictional. 01:30:25
Would be considered non jurisdictional. 01:30:27
Based on federal laws. 01:30:29
Yeah, the current fellow. 01:30:32
Federal laws. 01:30:34
On that, since it doesn't touch but it doesn't navigate, does not navigate navigable what type of bodies of water and such. 01:30:36
And we will. We actually have a. 01:30:42
Excuse me application array to submit to the core engineers now that. 01:30:49
The federal government should be open pretty soon. 01:30:52
We'll be able to move forward on that and then the area on Grove. 01:30:54
Park we have. We're going to be scheduling a sit down meeting with the Corps of Engineers to discuss. 01:30:58
The some prior impacts. 01:31:05
That was done on that area. 01:31:08
For the wetlands and have a discussion with them to. 01:31:11
Have a discussion with them to determine whether or not that would be considered, though that area would still have to be 01:31:16
mitigated or not. 01:31:19
And if and then apply for. 01:31:22
The parameter release of jurisdictional wetlands from the core engineers. 01:31:25
On that 1. So it's a process. 01:31:30
It's a process to go through. 01:31:32
The area behind Gamut Park. 01:31:35
All right, Excuse me. Grove Park. 01:31:37
Probably a longer process than the area. That's the fish oak area. 01:31:39
That would be a smoother, faster process and which also makes why the relocation makes more sense. 01:31:43
Because it's a, you know it's. 01:31:49
Something that could be. 01:31:51
In the more foreseeable future. 01:31:53
Does that answer your question? 01:31:56
Yeah. I mean, I was a kid when those were contracts were. 01:31:58
Negotiated, but I know the. 01:32:02
Lynn Holdaway, Robin Hold, Robbins. 01:32:04
You know there's 5 or 6 different families that are there. 01:32:08
That turned over those properties. 01:32:12
Knowing or thinking that being told by the state and city that those would be. 01:32:14
Non developable or usable wetlands. 01:32:19
And then? 01:32:23
When the developer was done with them, it's my understanding that they were turned over to the city, right? That's how we became 01:32:24
the area. The area. Grove Park has not yet been turned over the city. That's part of the process to ensure that no, not talking 01:32:29
about Grove Park. I'm talking about. 01:32:33
The wetlands. 01:32:38
He's talking. I think you guys are saying the same thing, Jake. He's saying it's the. 01:32:39
Open space behind Grove Park so it's the area as a point of order for this particular item. I think it would be great if you guys 01:32:44
if you guys want to look at the contracts for the Army Corps and talk about the wetlands and the delineation of that space or 01:32:49
have. 01:32:55
Kind of further conversation about the skate parks. 01:33:01
The skate park, I think that. 01:33:04
You guys could do that, maybe offline, I will say that delineation. 01:33:05
If I'm echoing what you're saying happens with the Army Corps. 01:33:11
And they determine whether something is uplands or. 01:33:14
Wetlands. 01:33:17
Correct. And then if there's mitigation that's done. 01:33:18
Wetlands. Never. 01:33:22
Are reduced, they are only replaced. 01:33:23
And so I think. 01:33:26
You could go and look at those agreements. 01:33:28
To see so if he wanted to say where did those wetlands go or how if they were mitigated? 01:33:30
Where did they go? 01:33:35
And how were they replaced? I bet you could do that. And if you want to say how were they delineated, you could look back through 01:33:36
the time frame. But for purposes of tonight, we're going to stay on this topic. 01:33:41
And we are going to move on to another item, but I just want to make sure it's on the record. 01:33:47
That entire foshark South of Gamma Park, up and around we as a city went. 01:33:52
And met with the Army Corps of Engineer to ensure that those are no longer wetlands. 01:33:57
We have not. I didn't say that we have. We have an application. We have an application, We have an application to submit to the 01:34:02
core of engineers and. 01:34:05
Again, now that the federal government should be opened, we should be able to proceed with that. 01:34:10
Thank you. And that also means that if the Army Corps comes back and says, yeah, this is all wetlands, then those plans. 01:34:14
Kind of go away cuz they're white ones. Not necessarily there's areas where we would have they would identify what areas are 01:34:21
considered what lands and then of course we have buffer areas so we would ensure that we're still protecting what would be 01:34:26
considered what lands and. 01:34:30
The current plans that Brian has put together. 01:34:35
Does does it does that as well, so. 01:34:38
Technically he's. 01:34:41
He's playing a safe route. 01:34:42
And making sure that regardless what the determination is. 01:34:45
That there. 01:34:48
He's he's not having to redo his process. 01:34:49
Awesome. 01:34:52
All right, Brian, can you stay here for a second so we can? 01:34:53
Close out a few. 01:34:57
Few of your items. 01:34:58
You had some appointments that you wanted. 01:35:00
To discuss. 01:35:02
Yes. So on the Arch Commission. 01:35:03
We have Jerem Sidwell, who is our current Arch Commission Chair. 01:35:06
And then Elizabeth Shelley, who is a former arch Commission chair. 01:35:11
And just proposed to. 01:35:17
Have them serve a second term. 01:35:19
We just are in need of staggering. 01:35:22
Are members of Arch. They are all. 01:35:25
Like on the same. 01:35:29
Time frame so. 01:35:30
Hold that thought, just for one second. 01:35:32
Cash and Morgan, would you mind just because we're on the appointments, if you could just introduce Neil Peterson and Doug. 01:35:35
Rodnick. 01:35:41
To I'm going to do them all at the same time. Yeah, no problem. And unfortunately Anthony's out for for a little bit, so I think 01:35:43
he had those appointments. There's Doug Radnich. 01:35:47
And. 01:35:53
I'm not I'm. 01:35:54
I I'm not familiar with it, I didn't manage the process for Miss Neil. 01:35:55
What's the name of that? Yeah, Neil Peterson, Neil Peterson and Neil Peterson. He served on a few of our committees and task 01:36:00
forces already. But if you if you guys don't have anything about that tonight, I can wait until December 10th for that. 01:36:06
Because I'd like them introduced. 01:36:13
I thought they were. 01:36:16
Yeah, we didn't know. So would you like them to? So if it's next meeting, would you like them at the at the meeting then? 01:36:17
You guys can introduce the process of how you guys or talk to them and interview them next time. Awesome. Sorry Anthony is not 01:36:23
here but happy he's with his family. 01:36:29
All right, can I get a motion from the council to approve a? 01:36:34
Jeremiah said well and Liz Shelley to serve a second term. 01:36:39
So moved. 01:36:43
Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 01:36:44
2nd. 01:36:47
Second by Brett. All in favor. 01:36:47
Aye, aye. 01:36:49
Any opposed? 01:36:50
All right. 01:36:52
Stay here still. 01:36:54
7.37.4 and 7.10 of the consent items, you said there were things on them that needed to be discussed that were not actually added. 01:36:56
Before the Council saw them and they were for discussion tonight. 01:37:05
I'm going to pull those off of the consent agenda and allow you to discuss them really quick. 01:37:09
Great. Thank you. 01:37:14
So the first one is regarding this 7.1. 01:37:15
Zero option. 01:37:21
This is pertaining to the Arch grant. 01:37:22
Policy and procedure update. 01:37:25
There's just a minor language change that is just shown up here in yellow. 01:37:28
So just instead of it saying. 01:37:34
In agreement, it specifies. 01:37:36
A written agreement and this is 710 guys. 01:37:38
7.10. 01:37:41
Correct. OK. 01:37:42
OK. That's the only change with that one. 01:37:45
This next one is for. 01:37:51
The. 01:37:53
Did anybody have any questions on 7.10? 01:37:54
With that. 01:37:57
Change. 01:37:58
OK, go to the next one. 01:38:01
Oh, go ahead. 01:38:03
I guess I would act like. 01:38:05
How long term are these changes? Because I know there's an appetite to look into and. 01:38:07
Adjust Arch Commission. 01:38:11
It's like, what? What are we agreeing to? That would be extremely long term tonight. 01:38:14
So as far as the code, well, and you always have the ability to change it. Yeah, OK. 01:38:18
So if you if you go through it, this is just a technical change. The short answer on this one is it. 01:38:24
But just in order the arch committee. 01:38:29
Issues grants and so this relates to. 01:38:31
The grants, they can issue, the criteria they would apply, right, How we would memorialize the agreement with the grant recipient. 01:38:34
And then certain kinds of things that are eligible and ineligible. 01:38:41
Have received those grants. 01:38:45
Yeah, that's good. 01:38:47
OK, next one. 01:38:49
OK with the pavilion and field reservation? 01:38:50
Code. I'm sorry, I don't remember what number specifically that was, If that was 77.33. OK, thank you. 01:38:54
So in yellow are just a few. 01:39:02
Updates that occurred since. 01:39:05
The packet was published. 01:39:08
So it's really just a lot of. 01:39:10
Just language changes I guess. 01:39:14
Let's see. So like for example 1 was. 01:39:18
Identifying what long term basis means for. 01:39:22
Reservation. 01:39:26
So we just. 01:39:28
Change that to be. 01:39:29
Exceeding 24 hours. 01:39:31
And then just a few changes regarding the fees and refunds. 01:39:36
Umm. 01:39:41
You're welcome to read through that. 01:39:44
One of which was the commercial use of parks. Just ensuring that if there's. 01:39:53
Businesses wanting to use parks. 01:39:59
Profit or business purposes? 01:40:02
We just ensure that we have. 01:40:05
A process in place for that to get insurance documents and a contract written up and. 01:40:07
A fee paid. 01:40:12
And that's to remove liability from the city. 01:40:16
So and then the bottom half is just pertaining to. 01:40:20
Than field reservations. So these changes are essentially the same as the top half. 01:40:24
That was just pertaining to pavilion reservations. Any questions on 7.3? 01:40:29
Any further clarity needed on it? 01:40:33
OK, 7.4. 01:40:36
OK. The last one is pertaining to concessions. 01:40:38
Would it help you, Brian, if I talked through this change or did you want to? 01:40:46
Take it on. Yeah, there's an addition to the concessions code that. 01:40:50
Was. 01:40:53
Requested in part by code enforcement, in part by the concessionaire, and then. 01:40:55
In part by Pam, as she's dealt with some election questions this last election cycle. What ended up occurring? We have a 01:41:00
concessionaire that pays. 01:41:05
To operate space in the park and they sell. 01:41:09
Ice cream, sodas, candies, those kinds of things. And we had. 01:41:13
Some. 01:41:17
People during the campaign season that were. 01:41:18
Providing free treats and snacks that were of the same variety sold by the concessionaire. And so the concessionaire complained to 01:41:21
the city saying. 01:41:25
I'm paying to rent the space. These are the things I'm selling and folks are coming and giving it away for free. 01:41:29
We didn't feel it appropriate to enforce or to make a change in the ordinance mid election cycle. 01:41:35
It just becomes too difficult where you have. 01:41:41
Competing campaigns and you want to be fair to all sides. 01:41:44
But we did want to make a change. 01:41:47
Going forward, so that that's known by everybody. 01:41:50
And the reason for the change again is we have a concessionaire and a revenue stream to the city that comes from it. 01:41:53
Pays to operate a business in that space. 01:42:01
In that space and we didn't want to allow. 01:42:03
Behavior in the parks that would. 01:42:06
Compete with. 01:42:08
That right to operate the business in that same area. 01:42:10
All right. 01:42:14
If there are no. 01:42:15
Questions on that that? 01:42:16
Felt really clear. Why don't we go ahead and approve 7.37.4? 01:42:18
7.5 which goes with it in seven point. 01:42:23
Is that is that approving those or moving them because there was additional change? 01:42:31
Nope, they're they're already. 01:42:35
Moved, so I pulled them. 01:42:37
So we just need to approve them. 01:42:39
So I just want a clarification. 01:42:41
On the concessions, are you saying that? 01:42:43
Because I guess I'm not. 01:42:47
It's not reading easy for me. Are you saying that people are not allowed to hand out free items if. 01:42:48
At all or free items that are sold by those vendors. 01:42:54
The way our process works with the concessionaire is they get a menu approved by the city. 01:42:58
Of the things that they. 01:43:03
Can sell and if somebody were to come to the park and. 01:43:05
Either give away or try to sell. 01:43:09
The same items that the concessionaire sells. 01:43:12
Then we'd be able to. 01:43:14
Remove them or stop them from selling that item. 01:43:16
At the park. 01:43:19
And if we? 01:43:24
Don't pass this. 01:43:24
If because when you talk about selling other items. 01:43:26
I mean, you already have to have a permit to sell at the park. 01:43:29
So if we didn't pass this, you could already. 01:43:33
If someone's selling it, you could already stop them, correct? Correct. 01:43:35
But now you're just basically saying you can't give it away for free. 01:43:38
Which feels UN American the same items. 01:43:45
You can give away something else. 01:43:48
No, I I get it. 01:43:50
I think it's because one is paying a fee to do it and then we're allowing somebody else to come in and we're not charging them a 01:43:51
fee. 01:43:54
Yeah, there there are times that. 01:43:59
Cities make decisions that feel a little bit more like a private landlord than they do. 01:44:01
A government entity. 01:44:08
And one is when you make the choice to. 01:44:09
Lease some of your park space to a business and give that business certain. 01:44:12
Exclusive rights to operate in that space, and that's really what this is about. 01:44:18
You could pivot and not. 01:44:23
Rent that space and. 01:44:25
Not run it in that way. 01:44:27
If you. 01:44:29
Didn't want to receive that revenue stream. 01:44:29
But I. 01:44:32
Think you're going to have a hard time holding on to the business if you allow competing behaviors? 01:44:32
That erode their bottom line. 01:44:37
Well, and it's not very common that someone's going to be handing out free stuff. 01:44:39
Yeah, it seems very few and far between. 01:44:45
I'm with Marty on that one. 01:44:50
OK. 01:44:52
I'm comfortable with that. I'll make a motion. 01:44:56
To approve. 01:44:59
7.1. 01:45:02
7.3.37.4 and 7.10. 01:45:03
And seven point. 01:45:08
5 and 7.5. 01:45:08
You have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:45:11
Second Second by Sarah. 01:45:13
I'm going to do this by roll call Jake. 01:45:16
No, Brett. 01:45:18
Aye, aye, Marty. Hi, Sarah. 01:45:21
Aye, all right. 01:45:25
Thank you. 01:45:27
I think the. 01:45:28
Took care of all of your items. Yes, yes. OK. 01:45:29
Can I get a raise of hand of who would like to speak in public comment? 01:45:33
For things that are not currently on the Agenda 123. 01:45:38
Anybody else? 01:45:42
All right, Tony, can you put? 01:45:44
Minutes on the clock for each. Please come state your name at the podium and share with us. 01:45:46
Your comments. 01:45:52
Yep. 01:45:59
Good evening Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 01:46:04
Thank you for this opportunity to speak tonight. 01:46:08
I'd like to thank the city for honoring Don Overson. 01:46:12
For his dedicated service to Vineyard City and residents. 01:46:16
I enjoyed the dedicatory ceremony and seeing the inside of the water tank that was very. 01:46:20
Cool. Very interesting. 01:46:25
And I'm just wondering when the tank will be operational. 01:46:27
I also would like to thank Nassim for his answering my many water questions. I had some more and he answered them this last week. 01:46:32
So thank you Nasim. 01:46:36
Now I have my questions. 01:46:42
I am wondering when the crosswalks will be completed on Main Street. 01:46:44
And also Vineyard Loop Rd. 01:46:48
I have a question about. 01:46:52
Is if there is an ordinance restricting overnight parking on public streets from November to March? 01:46:54
And if so, what will happen with those vehicles on the Vineyard Loop Rd. 01:47:01
Will the roads still be plowed? 01:47:06
And then I have one question. 01:47:09
Or concern. 01:47:11
Regarding item 6.3 on the work session. 01:47:13
Nassim said that the Army Corps of Engineers has not released that designation of wetlands. 01:47:20
At this property here. 01:47:27
At Planning Commission. 01:47:29
It was said that the survey study was done in June. 01:47:31
And I believe that the City Council should not move ahead. 01:47:34
Until the Corps of Engineers gives the approval. 01:47:39
Thank you very much. 01:47:42
Tim Blackburn, Vineyard resident. 01:47:58
I thought it was going to be discussed tonight 3.5. 01:48:01
A little bit, but since it wasn't. 01:48:03
I'll take just a moment and. 01:48:05
Talk about a concern we have. I'm speaking on behalf of the Vineyard Heritage Foundation. 01:48:06
And a couple of years ago, the mayor. 01:48:12
And I and half dozen other people went with the developers through that area. We walked through all the. 01:48:15
Thorny areas of of that of the property up near. 01:48:21
The eastern portion of that plat of ground, right behind the Pioneer home. 01:48:26
Where there are still. 01:48:31
And there's an old barn and there's silos and all that kind of thing. And I had understood that maybe the developer was going to 01:48:34
reverse the order in which they were going to have the city take. 01:48:39
Ownership or. 01:48:44
In interest in that property. 01:48:46
And I just want to remind the city that at that time a couple of years ago. 01:48:48
In talking with gold barrel and and other. 01:48:54
Interested people that was going to become a Heritage Park. 01:48:56
Of some kind. 01:49:00
We were going to take the silos and and redo some of them. We were going to. 01:49:02
Take the old barn and. 01:49:07
Maybe redo it. We were going to turn some of it into a venue where we could use them for weddings and other events in the city. 01:49:09
And I'm just hopeful that as that sequence of turning that ownership over to the city or. 01:49:16
Or who's going to be developing? 01:49:22
That it isn't just bulldozed down. 01:49:24
So that it can be developed. 01:49:27
That we truly do retain that parcel of land. 01:49:28
Into some kind of heritage celebration, because there aren't many of those locations in Vineyard left. 01:49:32
And right now we have that prize in our hands, so let's not destroy it. 01:49:39
Let's keep it. 01:49:44
Let's build upon it and turn it into something that we can all be proud of. 01:49:45
Thank you so much. 01:49:49
Thanks, Tim. 01:49:50
Crystal, did you have something? 01:49:52
Do you mind if I speak to that first? 01:49:54
No, we're gonna finish for school. I think you are last. 01:49:56
Well, I just wanted to say that I. 01:50:03
The voter base that elected the new. 01:50:06
Mayor and council are not happy about the What is it? 01:50:08
I think you're 10 cent items 7.7. 01:50:13
And 7.8. 01:50:17
And I hope that you will do the ethical thing and not try to jam through. 01:50:19
Any of your agendas? 01:50:23
OK, Thank you. As we close, I'm going to turn a few things. I'm. 01:50:26
We're going to answer a few questions. 01:50:31
I'm going to close. 01:50:33
Comment. 01:50:35
Really quick, I believe the water tank completion is going to is pegged to be. 01:50:37
Entirely completed in the next month. 01:50:42
Is that right, Nasim? OK. 01:50:44
Vineyard Loop Rd. Crosswalks. 01:50:46
I can't speak to the timeline on that. 01:50:49
Did you want to come to a microphone? 01:50:52
Thanks, Chris. 01:50:55
OK. Thanks for being here. 01:50:59
We're going to excuse Marty. She has streets and stormwater. 01:51:01
So you may have noticed now we're doing the the cross, the crossings for the Refuge Islands and some of the other. 01:51:09
Pedestrian crossings. 01:51:15
As soon as those crossings are done. 01:51:17
The the ADA Paths report today. 01:51:19
They'll start on the islands here soon. 01:51:22
As soon as those islands are done. 01:51:24
The strippers will be in here to kind of. 01:51:26
Red delineate some of those lanes there around those islands. 01:51:29
And they'll also hit the crosswalks before then. 01:51:34
If it's a concern. 01:51:36
That we want to get them out here sooner. 01:51:38
I'm happy to have them come out and do that. 01:51:40
We were just hoping to kind of get them all here, for one. 01:51:44
Big striping event so. 01:51:47
OK. Thank you. 01:51:49
We can. 01:51:52
Have you guys work on that and find out the best opportunity for us? Marty, did you have something to add? Yeah, I wanted to know. 01:51:53
There was an addition on the crosswalks. 01:52:00
We added another crosswalk on. 01:52:02
Oh, now I'm going to free. Is it Vineyard loop Rd. and. 01:52:06
170 N. 01:52:11
It's right by the Willows. 01:52:12
Clubhouse, I think it's worth noting. 01:52:14
That it was. 01:52:17
A really cool. 01:52:20
Conversation where flagship. 01:52:21
Offered to pay for the whole project. 01:52:23
Up to was it 18,000 or 15,000? 01:52:26
So I think that that's. 01:52:30
Really exciting for those communities that cross. 01:52:31
Over to that clubhouse all summer long. Yeah. Thank you so much, Marty, for negotiating that and putting that through. 01:52:34
I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. We'll look forward. Maybe you guys can put a timeline together and we can. 01:52:40
Kind of post it and. 01:52:44
Recap it next. I mean I would anticipate within the next 30 days the project is going to be complete. 01:52:46
So it would be within the next 30 days. That's wonderful. Thank you. 01:52:50
Daria, we do have a winter ordinance that talks about parking on those roads and what it usually entails is when it snows, they 01:52:56
move and then when they come back when it's. 01:53:01
Cleared, the cars can return to where they are allowed to park. 01:53:06
We could have that sent to you and we could post it. Generally we post it every time winter starts coming, so on social media. So 01:53:10
you'll see that come up, but we can get it too earlier. 01:53:15
Let's see as far as Tim Tim, that park remains. 01:53:21
I don't believe that was going to change on timeline. 01:53:25
Those agreements are still there. Go ahead Morgan, you can add to it. I don't know what they're requesting. So so they their, 01:53:28
their request now is. 01:53:32
To essentially flip the parks. 01:53:36
So instead of doing. 01:53:39
The lakeside park. 01:53:41
1st. 01:53:43
They they want to do that they what we call the gateway or the. 01:53:45
The wet. 01:53:48
The East park first. 01:53:50
Which is the heritage, yeah. And so and. 01:53:51
They're they're required to install baseline improvements. And so this is something we talked with the council a few years ago. 01:53:55
And so it would, it would be up to the City Council. 01:53:59
So those would be costs above what the what what the developers required to put in. They're required to put in baseline 01:54:03
improvements, which would be essentially grasp playground equipment. 01:54:08
Restrooms. 01:54:15
So they're supposed to put in a minimum kind of those minimum requirements and then if the city wants anything in addition. 01:54:17
We would do that and so. 01:54:22
That's one of those things that the city would like to budget to get, like to see if. 01:54:24
From a engineering structural assessment standpoint. 01:54:29
If they'll silos are good if you want to keep someone I mean that that'd be worthy of like a design charrette to. 01:54:33
To to to kick that back up, because if. 01:54:40
If the approval occurs as. 01:54:43
The applicant is requesting it would push that park at the front more of the front end and that does cut down some of the timeline 01:54:46
that we'd be able to to look at because. 01:54:51
So because right now it's towards the end and so it provides us a lot of time. 01:54:56
We move it up. 01:55:00
Then we need to make some decisions quickly. It's going to be fairly expensive to. So we just got anticipate that so it looks 01:55:01
like. 01:55:04
The timeline switches it closer. 01:55:08
And then? 01:55:11
Obviously comes into a budget conversation. 01:55:12
Yeah. So that will come forward in the future. 01:55:14
And then? 01:55:17
Crystal, I'm glad that you mentioned 7.8. 01:55:18
7:00 I'm going to confirm those numbers as I say them out loud. 01:55:21
Yep, 7.7 and 7.8. 01:55:26
We were able to have some conversations with our. 01:55:28
Newly elected officials. 01:55:32
And they talked about. 01:55:34
Potentially bringing forward some ideas to see if those work. 01:55:35
I recommended to the council that we allow them to bring those forward and talk in the next couple of weeks and show what we've 01:55:39
got and so my recommendation is that we move. 01:55:44
Those to our December 10th meeting to see. 01:55:48
How we can come together on that? But thank you for your comment. 01:55:51
Yep, there's there's always different opportunities. 01:55:55
So hopefully we can come together as a, as a. 01:55:59
As group. 01:56:01
All right, with that in mind. 01:56:02
Let's Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, Jake, you had something to add to the. 01:56:05
The park. I'm glad that Tim came tonight. A lot of people don't know. 01:56:08
The original name of Sleepy Ridge. 01:56:12
Is brought to us by. 01:56:16
The Timpanogos people. 01:56:18
The Sleepy Ridge is along. 01:56:21
It goes all the way throughout Vineyard, right? 01:56:23
Don't want to get emotional but. 01:56:26
Before The Pioneers got here. 01:56:29
We didn't have Deer Creek, we didn't have Strawberry and we didn't have Jordanelle. 01:56:33
And so every spring. 01:56:38
The entire. 01:56:43
Valley. 01:56:44
In about a three or four week period would flood. 01:56:45
And Vineyard would be a point of order. 01:56:49
Talking about history. 01:56:53
I know. 01:56:54
But you can. 01:56:55
Talk about that. 01:56:56
Another time. 01:56:57
We're talking about what Tim just said. 01:56:59
Talking about it, I think that's awesome. 01:57:01
And I think that should happen. Absolutely. OK, Jake, do you have a point? Yeah, Yeah, I have a point to this. 01:57:04
Because of that. 01:57:10
The specific location of where the indigenous people. 01:57:12
And the early holdaway families. 01:57:16
Met for a truce was on the sleepy Ridge right on right where the. 01:57:18
Leroy Family. 01:57:23
Farm is. 01:57:24
3. 01:57:26
Profits of the LDS church and 9 apostles lived in that location and so I love that Tim is concerned about the history there. 01:57:27
And about that Heritage Park because it's not only the Mormon settlers, but also the indigenous of the Timpanogos tribe. 01:57:37
Of what? Of what happened and occurred at that location. So I just want to make sure that. 01:57:46
Tim, I will go. 01:57:51
I've spoken with the mayor elect and the council and I know I'm going to be playing a major role. 01:57:52
In that history, and I'll go and meet with them before. 01:57:57
Next meeting, I know the next council will be the one that. 01:58:01
Is financing and thinking and. 01:58:04
Building that through so I just want to make sure. 01:58:06
I understand the history. 01:58:08
And the importance of it. 01:58:12
Go ahead, Sarah. 01:58:15
So. 01:58:16
As far as? 01:58:18
7.7. 01:58:19
And the social media outrage? 01:58:22
I just wanted to point out. 01:58:25
To all of. 01:58:27
The people who are opposing it. 01:58:28
That I have a budget request from Sullivan Love a year and a half ago. 01:58:31
Requesting a new vac truck. 01:58:35
What is a TV van? 01:58:37
The TV vans are used for. 01:58:42
Sending a video camera into those lines prior to using the back truck. So you send the video camera in. 01:58:45
You inspect the line with that. 01:58:52
From the surface. 01:58:55
You determine where the problems are. 01:58:56
And then you put your vac truck in and take care of it. 01:58:58
OK. So did we purchase that? 01:59:01
OK, so he has a request to purchase a new vac truck. 01:59:04
And a TV van. And that was a year and a half ago. 01:59:07
And we have since put money aside in the budget to be able to do that. Is that correct? 01:59:10
So for the last year and a half. 01:59:15
We've been setting aside money to be able to afford that. 01:59:17
So so when you get information. 01:59:20
Online and you say that we're going to spend $700,000. That's incorrect. 01:59:23
The amount here on fiscal impact shows 643. 01:59:28
643,000 with A170150 to 170. 01:59:31
$1000 credit for the existing. 01:59:37
Equipment that would be turned back in. 01:59:40
So the actual amount was. 01:59:42
Closer to what was it for? 01:59:44
475. 01:59:47
So I think it's really important that we get our facts straight, especially if we're spreading them. 01:59:48
Through the community. 01:59:53
To make sure that Sullivan was the one that asked for this a year and a half ago. 01:59:54
And the city supported that and put the money aside. 01:59:58
And so. 02:00:01
So when we spread information, let's sure that make sure that we have all our facts correct. Sarah you. 02:00:02
Sullivan started with. 02:00:08
Telling me that he was the one that requested it. 02:00:09
Due to COVID funds. 02:00:12
There were massive amount of buildings that. 02:00:13
Bought vac trucks. 02:00:15
The hourly rate to rent one. 02:00:17
And the availability has changed dramatically in the last year and a half, so for him to come forward. 02:00:19
And adjust his assessment. 02:00:25
Is awesome. 02:00:27
So we knew that he didn't, he didn't not share that with us because we are discussing 700,000, okay, he was off 100,000. 02:00:29
No, the actual amounts more like 475. That's a big difference. 02:00:37
Because we are discussing. 02:00:42
7.7. 02:00:45
I know I recommended it to be continued for further discussion, but maybe we could just come and talk about some of the facts. 02:00:47
Of the truck. 02:00:56
It seems like you guys want to review them. 02:01:00
I would just recognize the mayor and say thank you for working with Zach and and. 02:01:03
Having a conversation, you know he. 02:01:07
Obviously is the executive. He'll have an approach. He works with VAC trucks. 02:01:10
All the time like I spent an hour learning. I don't even know. 02:01:14
A lot about vac trucks, but about the rental of how much and and the availability of them and then also being on with. 02:01:18
TTSD today. 02:01:24
For like an hour and understanding that contract, it was like. 02:01:26
Wow yeah, this is a no brainer so. 02:01:28
I just appreciate the conversation and delaying it a couple of weeks. 02:01:32
Yeah, OK. 02:01:36
Thank you. 02:01:38
For your comments. 02:01:39
Did we want to talk about it now? Does the Council want to continue it? 02:01:42
OK, how about we continue it? 02:01:46
We sit down and then next time we can bring these discussions forward and we can talk about the contract with TSSD. 02:01:48
We can talk about. 02:01:56
The ability or. 02:01:57
Discussion about what it costs to rent it. 02:01:59
We can talk about our usage and our service agreements. 02:02:02
OK, so I'm going to ask that we just put. 02:02:05
Put 7.7 and 7.8 and we continue those. 02:02:07
Hold for a second while I. 02:02:12
Just say, can we approve? 02:02:14
7.1. 02:02:16
7.2. 02:02:18
Seven point. 02:02:20
Six and seven point. 02:02:21
9 and 7.11. 02:02:24
And then we'll continue 7.7 and 7.8. 02:02:27
I'd like to pull off 7.6. 02:02:32
7.6 Can we can we go ahead and talk about 7.6? 02:02:34
Yeah. All right. 02:02:41
Right, go ahead and start the the the the question I had and this is again, as much I know, I know we've I've already had a 02:02:42
conversation about this, but I want to make sure everybody. 02:02:47
Hears it. 02:02:53
In the work session on. 02:02:55
On that. 02:02:59
I had asked for an evaluation of a breakpoint for Council approval. 02:03:03
In. 02:03:07
I'm going to point Eric. 02:03:10
If you could walk us through the the research and evaluation that you did. 02:03:14
And the because when I was reviewing the updated policy that's coming in here. 02:03:19
That particular piece wasn't in there, and it was. 02:03:24
A bit frustrating. 02:03:26
But then we had a conversation and I want to make sure everybody hears. 02:03:29
The research that staff have done. 02:03:33
And why that one particular piece wasn't in there? 02:03:36
From my recollection, there was there was 2 requests. 1 was that we would adjust the international travel that gets approved by 02:03:42
the City Council to be scrutinized. 02:03:46
And the other was that we looked at. 02:03:50
Thresholds that we could utilize. 02:03:52
On a dollar. 02:03:55
Level rather than just. 02:03:57
Where the location was. 02:03:59
And so we. 02:04:01
Did add one that was for outside Utah County that cost more than $4000. 02:04:02
When we looked around Utah cities, there was no other Utah cities that use a dollar threshold. 02:04:07
We did a nationwide search. 02:04:13
And there was a couple cities in Texas that did have a dollar amount. 02:04:15
So we utilized one of those. 02:04:18
The $4000 one. 02:04:22
Any travel that would that would go above that. 02:04:25
Certainly merits. 02:04:28
Getting additional scrutiny? 02:04:29
And so we've added a. 02:04:31
A requirement for that to be. 02:04:33
I would just let. 02:04:36
Council know that. 02:04:37
That looking over the last couple of years, the travel. 02:04:38
Has not been over that $4000 amount. 02:04:43
And so anything that would go above that would definitely be something that raises a flag and needs to be looked over and 02:04:47
carefully considered. 02:04:51
In addition to just the budgeting of those in the 1st place at the beginning of the year. 02:04:56
OK. Thank you. 02:05:00
Any other comments or? 02:05:02
Is there, you mentioned that nothing in the last couple of years has gone up that high? 02:05:03
Do we know what the highest thing was? What was that? 02:05:09
Dollar amount, I think the highest dollar amount was actually for City Council to attend. 02:05:13
Our Saint George. 02:05:20
Event and that I think the total. 02:05:22
Total dollar amount on that was about 2800. 02:05:24
OK. 02:05:28
OK. Well, thank you. 02:05:31
With that, does everybody feel comfortable approving everything and continuing everything, remaining and continuing 7.7 and 7.8? 02:05:34
I second. 02:05:43
Or do I make a motion? Yeah, Jake, we'll get a motion for you to do that. And I'm just going to name the numbers really quick, 02:05:44
7.17.27.6. 02:05:48
7.9 and 7. 02:05:52
.11 to be to be approved and 7.7 and 7.8 to be continued. I make that motion. 02:05:54
OK, can I get a second Second. 02:06:01
Thank you. 02:06:03
Brett for a second. 02:06:05
And I'll do it by roll call, Jake. 02:06:07
I Marty's excused. 02:06:11
Hi, excellent. 02:06:13
OK. Eric, you had a report. 02:06:15
Did you get 7.11? 02:06:18
That's on the next page I did. I called it 7.11. 02:06:20
Sorry. 02:06:24
I missed that. OK, yeah, just a just a quick we've, we've got a nice report for the council to review. 02:06:24
Be sure to take a look at that, there's tons of cool information about what's happened over the last month. 02:06:30
But just a couple highlights. 02:06:35
From recreation, there were 591 registrants to the youth. 02:06:38
Junior Jazz Basketball League. 02:06:41
Huge, huge numbers. It's fun to see that many kids coming out for those. 02:06:44
We hosted our buapalooza. 02:06:47
Event this year. 02:06:50
Just before Halloween. 02:06:51
And had. 02:06:53
Approximately 4000 attendees, which was huge, an increase over the years in the past. 02:06:54
Also coordinated. 02:07:01
With the Rojas farms. 02:07:03
To offer pumpkins to the community on the. 02:07:05
On the one day. 02:07:08
And those were incredibly popular. 02:07:10
I know that we saw pumpkins going all over the city. 02:07:12
The their teams installed two dog stations along the trail. 02:07:17
Near the train tracks. 02:07:22
I bring that up as a point of. 02:07:24
Of. 02:07:26
Note because I know that there's oftentimes concerns about about. 02:07:27
Not having those available and therefore. 02:07:31
Having issues with. 02:07:34
With dog feces found along those trails. So that's a big deal. 02:07:35
Also. 02:07:40
2 memorial bench and plaques were installed. 02:07:41
Just wanted to point out because this has come up. 02:07:45
On social media. 02:07:47
Those are fully funded through donations. 02:07:48
The benches. 02:07:53
Yes. Why were they on the budget then? 02:07:54
Any expenses that come through the city? 02:07:57
Have to go through our budget even if. 02:08:00
We have to track the revenue and then we have to track the expenses. 02:08:02
And so it shows up in our budget. 02:08:06
But it is not something that the city is is expending its own dollars. It's just expending the could you call that out on the 02:08:08
budget next time? Absolutely delineated. 02:08:12
Yeah, yeah. 02:08:16
Why were they still? 02:08:18
$12,000 though. 02:08:19
They were not $12,000 Twelve. 02:08:20
Maybe in the ballpark of. 02:08:22
6000 total for. 02:08:24
For how many for six benches? 02:08:26
So 1000 bucks each. 02:08:28
And usually when they go through the budget, they go through kind of our grants and expenses and then it shows what is coming in 02:08:30
and what's going on. 02:08:33
But we can be a little more clear about that next year. Yeah, that's great. 02:08:38
Also wanted to point out we have a whole page of. 02:08:41
Master plan updates. 02:08:44
That includes. 02:08:46
Mill Rd. Wayfinding station area plan. 02:08:48
Vineyard center rental program Bluffs at Vineyard so lots of different master plans. 02:08:51
And we try to keep you up to speed on what those are with an update each month. 02:08:57
Let's see. 02:09:03
I think there was one other. 02:09:04
On our occupancy from the building, on our building report, our total units occupied in Vineyard are now at 58130. 02:09:07
Which puts our estimated population at 22,742. 02:09:15
From this last month we had the. 02:09:22
Three single family dwellings were approved. 02:09:25
19 townhomes and three commercial units. 02:09:28
And that's it. 02:09:32
Awesome. Thank you so much. 02:09:35
We're going to go ahead and do our public hearing. 02:09:37
This is an update to the Vineyard City Development Standards and Design Specifications or. 02:09:39
Ordinance 2025-15 can. 02:09:44
Can I get a motion to go into a public hearing? 02:09:47
So moved. Thank you, Brett. Can I get a second? 02:09:50
2nd Thank you, Sarah. 02:09:53
We are now in a public hearing. 02:09:55
And then? 02:09:58
Chris Thompson, I believe our consultant. 02:10:00
Is going to be this discussion for us. Thanks so much for being here. 02:10:03
Yeah. Thank you. 02:10:07
I think I need this. 02:10:09
I don't think this will take a long time. 02:10:18
But. 02:10:21
Let's see. 02:10:23
I just push the button as soon as. 02:10:28
To run. 02:10:58
Do I press the button on here? 02:11:04
If you take it out and then put it back in. 02:11:06
OK, that's what I've noticed. I have to do it twice. 02:11:08
OK. 02:11:13
And then it comes. 02:11:15
Sorry that. 02:11:17
Something came up right here so. 02:11:22
You click it first. 02:11:27
Didn't do that. 02:11:32
There we go. All right, great. 02:11:34
Sorry about that. 02:11:36
Recently. 02:11:46
We've been able to work with engineering staff to revise the construction and development standards. 02:11:48
This is how your neighborhoods. 02:11:53
Are constructed. 02:11:55
From the curb and gutter to the sidewalks to the utilities under the ground. 02:11:57
And. 02:12:02
A lot of, really. 02:12:03
Change it. Good changes that I think will help. 02:12:06
The development community, the contractors, the inspectors, and. 02:12:08
The engineering reviewers. 02:12:12
One of the things. 02:12:15
That happened at the beginning of 2025. Is a new version of the. 02:12:17
American Poet Works Association, Utah Chapter Standards came out. 02:12:22
These are. 02:12:26
Are kind of like the Uniform building code, but for building. 02:12:27
The roads and the utilities. 02:12:31
And. 02:12:33
There's a state committee. 02:12:34
That meets on on. 02:12:36
On these standards and they update them every year. 02:12:38
And the latest update was in 2025 actually. 02:12:41
Scene is on this committee. 02:12:46
The state committee that. 02:12:49
That of Daisy standards. 02:12:50
And he's been a long standing member of the committee anyway, these standards. 02:12:52
Have a lot of detail. 02:12:57
That is. 02:12:59
Up to date on like. 02:13:00
The road base that you build underneath the asphalt. The asphalt. 02:13:01
How it's comprised and and and concrete, the standards for concrete, it stays up with all of those so that the cities don't have 02:13:05
to. 02:13:09
And so. 02:13:13
A lot of this. 02:13:15
Update to the Vineyard Standards where? 02:13:17
Was to adopt. 02:13:19
The APWA specifications and then take out. 02:13:21
Standards like. 02:13:25
Road base? How many? 02:13:26
You know what the graduation for your Rd. base is and and how the asphalt should be made-up to take that out so that. 02:13:28
That you just referred to a more up-to-date standard. 02:13:34
And the APWA specs? 02:13:38
Anyway, that's. 02:13:40
That's one change. 02:13:41
The second change which? 02:13:43
I really. 02:13:46
Feel like is going to help. 02:13:48
The inspectors, the. 02:13:49
The design engineers the. 02:13:51
The contractors is. 02:13:53
Is kind of organizing. 02:13:56
The standards in a way that. 02:13:58
That if you have. 02:14:00
A sanitary sewer or a drinking water. 02:14:01
A standards question you can go right there and get. 02:14:05
Get all of the answers and. 02:14:07
And and so. 02:14:09
Just reorganizing all the standards so that if you're a design engineer. 02:14:12
The design requirements are in one. 02:14:17
Section or if you're an inspector, the inspection. 02:14:19
Requirements are on one section as well. 02:14:23
And so this was. 02:14:25
A pretty good change. 02:14:27
I felt like for. 02:14:29
The people who use these standards all the time. 02:14:30
This is kind of. 02:14:34
An example of. 02:14:35
Of the previous. 02:14:37
Standards and. 02:14:38
To kind of see how. 02:14:40
We took all of this and organized it into. 02:14:42
Into a way that you you could. 02:14:45
Just go to one place. 02:14:47
Get all the information on on that item. 02:14:48
The other thing is, is vineyards have been. 02:14:52
Working on a new transportation master plan. 02:14:55
Which has made some some great. 02:14:57
New plans for the city's transportation system and and with that. 02:15:02
Some different. 02:15:07
Street cross sections. 02:15:08
Were proposed. 02:15:09
These were implemented into the standards so that. 02:15:10
You now had. 02:15:14
Your standard drawings for a street cross section match. 02:15:15
The the master plan. 02:15:17
And then the last kind of major. 02:15:19
Change that I think helps is. 02:15:22
A lot of the municip. 02:15:24
Code is. 02:15:25
Held in a program called Muni Code. 02:15:28
It allows you to very quickly get to. 02:15:31
To different codes and and standards and. 02:15:33
Ordinances and. 02:15:39
So, uh. 02:15:41
The last part of this once. 02:15:42
Once it's approved, is. 02:15:43
These construction standards will be put into muni code. 02:15:45
So that that. 02:15:48
Accessibility will be there for the contractors and engineers. 02:15:49
As well. 02:15:53
Any questions about all that before we? 02:15:56
Maybe. 02:15:59
Really high level changes that were proposed. 02:16:00
Doesn't look like it. 02:16:05
OK. All right. 02:16:06
Kind of just took kind of. 02:16:08
The more impactful. 02:16:10
We call them significant. 02:16:12
Revisions and thought we could hit those really quickly and then we'll be done. 02:16:14
The first one is. 02:16:18
A lot of times. 02:16:20
When a contractor. 02:16:21
Comes and tears up the roads and and replaces the water line or. 02:16:23
Or does some sort of work? 02:16:27
The engineering office gets some complaints of, well, my driveway was cracked or my sidewalk or what have you. 02:16:30
And. 02:16:37
You go out there as an engineer and and. 02:16:39
The contractors saying, well, that was already there and. 02:16:42
That homeowners saying well, it wasn't. 02:16:44
And and so one one of the additions to the standards is that a contractor is up to the contractor to take a video footage of the 02:16:47
area before starting work. 02:16:52
And and if that's neglected and and that's what will be used to to solve those type of disputes. If that's not there, then. 02:16:57
The disputes will be decided on the homeowners side, if that makes sense. So that's if the contractor wants to be able to. 02:17:06
Claim something is already. 02:17:15
Was already done. They have to provide that video. 02:17:17
The next one is. 02:17:21
Is. 02:17:22
There is a situation. 02:17:24
With UDOT where all the UDOT roads and there's quite a few. 02:17:26
UDOT roads in in in Vineyard. 02:17:28
They use a 30 inch curb and gutter. 02:17:32
But the Citi had 24 inch curb and gutter and so. 02:17:35
You're always kind of. 02:17:38
If you're a contractor and you're slipping. 02:17:40
The curb and go use these machines that just kind of lay it. 02:17:44
They call it slip lining anyway as they slip the curb and gutter. 02:17:48
In and then all of a sudden you go around a corner and you now have a 24 inch. 02:17:52
Gutter There's a lot of costs in reset up of the equipment and and. 02:17:57
That's that's fine. 02:18:02
Except for. 02:18:03
The 30 inch curb and gutter is much better. 02:18:04
It holds. 02:18:07
More of the water in during a storm and and a lot of times the edge of the road gets eroded and that's where you have a lot of St. 02:18:08
Problems because the water actually overflows the 24 inch curb gutter and and it erodes the water. There's two things that. 02:18:17
That hurt roads, and that's the sun. 02:18:24
And water. 02:18:27
And so if you have. 02:18:28
A little bit wider. 02:18:30
Kirby gutter temperature. 02:18:31
If you have a little bit wider curb and gutter, it holds that water in and it protects the road. 02:18:33
From that water. 02:18:37
The other thing? 02:18:39
About that is. 02:18:41
The cost of curbing gutter, a lot of it is in that big machine. 02:18:43
That slips it in. 02:18:47
And so. 02:18:48
When you add 6 inches onto it, the only real additional cost is for a little bit more concrete. 02:18:50
And. 02:18:56
And. 02:18:57
When you have concrete. 02:18:58
It doesn't really require much maintenance except for if it settles OK. 02:19:00
Whereas asphalt. 02:19:04
As a 20 year lifespan and you're. 02:19:06
You're always doing maintenance to the asphalt, so. 02:19:08
Taking out a foot of Rd. 02:19:11
You would think isn't a big deal, but it is a big deal. 02:19:12
Because the cost to construct the asphalt. 02:19:15
And to maintain it is very linear. 02:19:19
You add 1 foot and it adds exactly. 02:19:21
That percent of the road. 02:19:24
In in cost of maintenance and and construction so. 02:19:26
There's a lot of reasons why a 30 inch. 02:19:30
Kernel gutter. 02:19:32
Makes sense and and so this adds. 02:19:33
It basically makes the city standard for current gutter. 02:19:36
Match the the UDOT standard. 02:19:39
But unless of course you already have a road with 24 inch and then it would stay the same. 02:19:43
You just match. 02:19:47
Grandfather did. 02:19:48
Yeah. 02:19:50
Yeah, OK. 02:19:50
The next one is railroad crossings. 02:19:53
UDOT and the railroad and Utah. 02:19:56
Have really come into. 02:20:00
A much higher level of regulation railroad crossings, especially in regards to having a driveway. 02:20:05
Or another Rd. close by. 02:20:10
Because of the hazard of it and and diagnostic. 02:20:12
Type. 02:20:15
Events are triggered once. 02:20:17
You get within 200 feet of of a railroad crossing, and so this creates a standard that says you just can't have a street 02:20:19
intersection. 02:20:23
Within. 02:20:28
200 feet of railroad crossing. 02:20:29
And and if you want. 02:20:31
A driveway. 02:20:33
Then the developer would have to pay for that diagnostic. 02:20:34
That's required. 02:20:37
There any questions on what I've said so far? 02:20:39
Yeah, I have. I have a question on the. 02:20:43
You can't have an intersection by the. 02:20:47
Railroad crossing. Can you explain that one a little bit more? 02:20:49
OK, so. 02:20:52
St. Intersections. 02:20:54
Yeah, explain that one. 02:20:55
Code approaches a railroad crossing. 02:20:58
There there's there's some hazard. 02:21:03
In umm. 02:21:05
Blocking. 02:21:08
The access across that railroad and so. 02:21:11
What what happens is a lot of times. 02:21:14
I'm sorry. 02:21:17
I think I understand the right of review and the hazard. 02:21:18
I don't think I understand when you say no St. intersections. What do? 02:21:22
What are we defining as St. intersections? 02:21:27
Around our railroad. 02:21:30
So if you measured from the. 02:21:31
From the railroad. 02:21:34
Out 250 feet down the. 02:21:36
The road You couldn't have a new proposal. 02:21:38
St. come in to to. 02:21:41
To that street, so. 02:21:43
This is railroad crossing. Here's the road. 02:21:45
You'd have to measure 250 feet before you could propose a new road. 02:21:47
To connect to this. 02:21:50
This street that crosses the railroad. 02:21:52
Does that make more sense? 02:21:54
Yeah, it does make more sense. 02:21:56
I'm just wondering if I like that one or not. 02:21:58
All right, continue. 02:22:01
Come back to that one. 02:22:03
That's mostly a safety situation. 02:22:04
That UDOT, UTA, Union Pacific, all of the. 02:22:08
The railroad folks, Sorry. 02:22:11
Saying, yeah, it's you got to keep those 250 feet or more away. 02:22:13
When so? 02:22:17
This just eliminates. 02:22:19
Review. All right. 02:22:20
Go to the next one. I'm gonna think about that. 02:22:22
OK, OK, great. 02:22:23
11. 02:22:27
Issue that you have a lot in development is if a field is is is going to be developed and has a road along. 02:22:29
The edge of the field. 02:22:35
A lot of cities don't require. 02:22:38
The full Rd. 02:22:40
To be built. 02:22:42
In between the two fields. 02:22:43
But they do require enough of the road so that you can get two way traffic and and get that but. 02:22:46
It doesn't seem fair to. 02:22:52
Require all the right away. 02:22:53
On the one property owner. 02:22:55
And all of the improvements and then the property owner across the street. 02:22:57
Basically. 02:23:01
Can develop all their property and doesn't have all that road to put in, so it's very common. 02:23:02
Across Utah to. 02:23:09
To make them build half the road plus 10 feet and plus a little buffer. 02:23:10
Okay. And and vineyards the same ways have been the same way. 02:23:14
But there's a problem that occurs when you get. 02:23:18
To an intersection. 02:23:21
And. 02:23:23
Not just in that case, but. 02:23:25
Sometimes a development will phase. 02:23:27
They'll build 1 section. 02:23:30
One phase of their development 1st and then the next phase, and then the next phase. 02:23:31
And and sometimes. 02:23:35
When they get to those. 02:23:37
Phase lines. There's an intersection there, and. 02:23:38
And uh. 02:23:41
They'll try to build. 02:23:43
Kind of half plus 10 feet of an intersection, it just doesn't work very well. And so there's require that you have to build out. 02:23:45
The full intersection. 02:23:52
With each phase of the development. 02:23:53
OK, I'm going to go back to the last one. 02:23:56
All right. 02:23:59
A few scenarios. 02:24:02
Is a new intersection. 02:24:03
An at grade or. 02:24:05
Is that also an overpass? 02:24:07
No, it just be out crazy, OK and. 02:24:09
Is. 02:24:12
A new intersection. 02:24:13
Where we're trying to get. 02:24:16
We'll say 1200 N. 02:24:19
Goes in before the spur line is removed due to one of our agreements. 02:24:22
Normally it would just require flaggers, but in this code it would mean. 02:24:29
We can have no new intersection. 02:24:34
No or assessment would be required. 02:24:37
Are those different? 02:24:39
Yeah. 02:24:42
So if you had a situation where a spur was coming out. 02:24:44
The city engineer has. 02:24:50
The opportunity in your in your code. 02:24:52
To to make exception for that. 02:24:55
Call get the diagnostics. 02:24:57
Where you bring out UDOT, you bring out the railroad and you do the diagnostic and you review it. 02:24:59
But it would. 02:25:05
It would take an exception to the rule. 02:25:07
Rather than just be allowed by the rule. 02:25:09
Hmm. So we already have the right of review from the railroad. We already have it from you dot. 02:25:12
But why would we create another hurdle for us to put roads and I and I get safety? I'm just thinking as a city that's bifurcated 02:25:19
by rail. 02:25:23
In a city that's locked in by rail. 02:25:27
Our entire goal as a city. 02:25:30
Has been to overcome this hurdle and create every access point availability. 02:25:32
I mean. 02:25:37
Right now we're so. 02:25:38
Traffic jammed along 800 N. 02:25:40
That any opportunity we have to open any cross section. 02:25:43
Is what we're going to do and so. 02:25:47
I don't know why as a city we would say. 02:25:49
Hey, this is going to be the exception to the rule when. 02:25:52
Our rule? 02:25:55
In our city right now is. 02:25:56
Cross it. 02:25:58
You know, I mean we want to remove it. 02:25:59
And we want to build over it, of course, for safety because we care, but we also need to get out of here. 02:26:01
There's huge cost. There's a simple solution to that. You can just add the words. 02:26:07
Unless otherwise authorized by the. 02:26:12
City engineer or the post director or someone? 02:26:15
And and and and then you still have the teeth. 02:26:18
Of. 02:26:21
If a developer wants to come and put one where you don't even want it. 02:26:22
You can still prevent it if you OK, so you could organize it. 02:26:25
That would be a pretty easy. 02:26:29
Addition to that and I. 02:26:31
I don't know. I'll defer to staff if they. 02:26:33
But but. 02:26:36
It seems like. 02:26:39
You don't want to be caught up in a lot of diet. 02:26:41
Diagnostic. 02:26:43
Because another thing for me is I'm thinking I like that because it's something where you don't want to Rd. but then you think 02:26:46
there's additional cost to getting inspections, making it harder for businesses. Sorry, I'm troublemaker. Yeah. Patrick James, 02:26:50
assistant city engineer. 02:26:54
I believe we already added that language unless other other. 02:26:58
Otherwise approved by the City engineer. 02:27:03
But I feel like there's a little bit of confusion still. So I don't think that this doesn't necessarily eliminate the possibility 02:27:06
of a crossing. 02:27:10
It's just it's another St. intersecting. 02:27:14
That road that's crossing the railroad within 250 feet? 02:27:18
Maybe. 02:27:22
I don't know. I'm thinking there's a little bit of confusion. So you're saying that? 02:27:23
In Mayer's example where 1200 N we have. 02:27:28
The intention hopefully to get 1200 N to push through to Geneva Rd. 02:27:31
As long as it's just pushing through to Geneva Rd. 02:27:36
That would be your. 02:27:39
Otherwise approved. 02:27:40
You just wouldn't want to shortly thereafter at a Rd. 02:27:42
Within 250 feet, yeah, 1200 N and the existing spur line paralleling it. 02:27:45
Yeah. So it just keeps that distance away, so as people. 02:27:52
So, for example, as people back up to that intersection, they're not crossing into that. 02:27:56
Railroad, uh. 02:28:02
Aligned. 02:28:03
Does that make more sense? 02:28:05
OK. And like we can't? 02:28:07
'Cause this problem that I'm seeing that that makes sense. 02:28:10
OK. Thanks. Thanks, Patrick. 02:28:13
OK, so the next one. 02:28:16
Is. 02:28:19
Building and pavements not allowed over landfilled. 02:28:20
Areas. 02:28:24
This this is a big problem. 02:28:26
Problem where? 02:28:29
Where you have filled. 02:28:31
Brought in a lot of times it'll settle. 02:28:33
A lot of times, a lot of things in there that. 02:28:36
That maybe are contaminants or. 02:28:38
One city. 02:28:41
How did development go over a landfilled area and and everything went great. They followed all the. 02:28:43
All the reports, all the. 02:28:48
The requirements that. 02:28:50
That the environmental documents, the geotech. 02:28:51
Documents and. 02:28:54
Things had it, but then the gas company came in and. 02:28:55
Dug their trenches in it. 02:28:57
Unearthed a lot of garbage and things. 02:28:59
And. 02:29:02
Ended up being in a huge. 02:29:03
Battle over that. 02:29:05
And had to move. 02:29:06
All the development. 02:29:08
Off of it just because of public opinion and so. 02:29:09
This helps you. 02:29:12
To avoid that it. 02:29:13
Even if. 02:29:17
If you come in, you get all these reports saying we'll do it. 02:29:19
This way there's there's a lot of. 02:29:22
Of. 02:29:24
Public angst about building over landfill type areas and so this just. 02:29:27
Added a. 02:29:32
Requirement that buildings and payments. 02:29:34
Can't be built over that type of. 02:29:36
Of the situation. So we do have a containment. 02:29:38
Facility in our area that. 02:29:43
The city has always planned to allow for pavement over that facility in some way. 02:29:45
This would stop that ability for pavement to be put on there. 02:29:52
Yes it would. 02:29:57
You left this in. 02:29:58
I mean I. 02:30:00
I understand buildings. 02:30:02
White pavement. 02:30:04
Especially with just impacted material. Is landfill different? 02:30:07
Well, they measure the settlement. 02:30:11
Yeah, then it becomes completely unusable. But if you allow some kind of. 02:30:12
Surface. 02:30:19
I mean from everything that I've. 02:30:21
Learned about it, it feels like. 02:30:24
That was the one thing that they could allow to go in. 02:30:25
That space. 02:30:28
Yeah, from what I've seen personally as an engineer, I've seen pavements over this. 02:30:30
Type of material and and they don't hold up very well. 02:30:35
And so they after. 02:30:39
Not very much time. 02:30:42
Then they crack. But. 02:30:43
This definitely is is a political decision. I mean, if you. 02:30:45
I want to remove pavements. 02:30:50
That's easy to do, but. 02:30:52
It's mostly. 02:30:54
To say, look, if you're going to build. 02:30:56
A parking lot or a building you don't want it to settle. 02:31:00
You want. 02:31:04
Preferred foundation, but it'd be easy to. 02:31:05
That payments requirement out if you want. 02:31:08
No, I just want to learn more about it because we've had so many engineers and people come and talk to us about it. And so it's so 02:31:12
interesting to see it come forward, especially because the scene sits on that. 02:31:17
Committee with you. 02:31:22
So interesting. 02:31:23
I 100% back that. 02:31:26
I would trust you with that because you've had so much settling in Vineyard. 02:31:28
With so many developments and we should have. 02:31:34
Had that standard a long time ago. 02:31:37
I've seen in situations where you want to do. 02:31:39
Like a park or something which is a good. 02:31:43
Actually a good way to handle that type of material is is where you do put the parking lot you. 02:31:45
You excavate it out and. 02:31:51
And then build it back up. 02:31:53
But. 02:31:55
That's this is your code. 02:31:58
So you can do it however you want. 02:32:00
OK. 02:32:02
Glass is. 02:32:07
Fire hydrants. 02:32:09
One problem that fire department. 02:32:12
Quite often have is. 02:32:13
Is they come out. 02:32:15
To a fire. They're in a hurry. 02:32:17
And if they don't see that hydrant write off. 02:32:18
And they have to hunt for it then. Then that's a problem. 02:32:22
And and so. 02:32:25
In response to this, a lot of cities are putting what's called an apron around the hydrants. 02:32:27
Some concrete and. 02:32:34
2 feet in each direction and. 02:32:35
It's really hard to plant a Bush in concrete and so. 02:32:37
That does a good job at. 02:32:40
It looks. 02:32:42
Nice. 02:32:43
And clean. 02:32:45
And it just keeps. 02:32:47
Keeps those hydrants. 02:32:48
Open from having people. 02:32:51
Put fences or. 02:32:53
Or trees or whatever in front of them. 02:32:55
So. 02:32:58
Any questions about that? 02:33:00
You don't care about the next one. 02:33:05
I don't know if anyone does but. 02:33:07
There's a new meter. 02:33:09
Box assembly. 02:33:10
Design and then. 02:33:12
The state requires A sewer clean out at the back of the sidewalk now. 02:33:14
And this is really nice for residents as they. 02:33:19
Have problems with their sewer lines. They can have a clean out there and one at the house and so. 02:33:22
That's one and then? 02:33:26
There's now a parking lot. 02:33:28
Drawing in the standards so. 02:33:30
An engineer and architect can pull that out and. 02:33:34
And quickly design a parking lot. 02:33:36
Know the dimensions of all the. 02:33:38
Lanes and and stalls. 02:33:40
And then finally. 02:33:43
Vineyard had a survey monument standard. I don't know those. 02:33:46
Followed a lot. 02:33:50
But Utah County. 02:33:52
Has the county surveyor. 02:33:54
And and the county surveyors. 02:33:56
Response is. 02:33:59
Is. 02:34:01
Don't put them in. 02:34:01
They're not going to maintain them if they do get put in. 02:34:03
And, and the, the county with GPS is able, has been able to survey all the section corners, all the section quarter corners and, 02:34:06
and different things. And that's all they need. They don't need monuments anymore. So that's just kind of an old. 02:34:12
Throwback in the standards. 02:34:18
Any more questions? 02:34:21
Are there more slides? 02:34:23
No, I mean there there are, but. 02:34:25
You don't want to see them. OK, well, I want to invite the public. The public Have any questions? 02:34:27
Not at this time. 02:34:35
OK. I'm going to call for a motion to go out of a public hearing if you are done presenting. 02:34:36
Yeah. 02:34:41
OK I have a first by Sarah. Can I get a second? 02:34:44
Thank you, Brett. All in favor. 02:34:47
Aye. 02:34:49
Aye, aye. 02:34:49
All right, Council, do you have questions? 02:34:51
Or comments. 02:34:54
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in any of this stuff. I mean, that's why you're here. 02:34:57
But. 02:35:02
In their review that I that I've done I. 02:35:03
It is super thorough. Everything that I've seen is. 02:35:06
In line with what we would expect and even some of the comments, I was able to go search. 02:35:11
Just in the during the presentation and. 02:35:15
Like that language about the? 02:35:18
Railroad crossing it it it is in there. 02:35:19
So yeah. 02:35:23
Good job. 02:35:24
I'm pretty happy. I like and I like all of the stuff that's in there. 02:35:25
I would also back that like these standards are brought forth because of hundreds of problems. 02:35:31
That have happened over many years. 02:35:38
And getting the brightest of minds that are involved in that, like the compaction. 02:35:40
And saying what should that standard be for longevity so the problems in the future don't come? 02:35:45
And I'm grateful that an organization like that exists as a trade and there's no way I would ever question it. 02:35:51
So yeah. 02:35:58
100% vote and I I wouldn't recommend. 02:35:59
Altering it at all? 02:36:03
Sarah, do you have anything? 02:36:05
I actually. 02:36:08
Disagree a little bit, because. 02:36:10
If the land is. 02:36:11
Not usable. 02:36:14
To be able to lay asphalt on it and. 02:36:15
Repair it every five years to make it usable. 02:36:17
That seems like a better use of. 02:36:20
Available land. 02:36:23
Yeah, I I wonder if we do want to. 02:36:25
Pass it tonight if we could. 02:36:28
I kind of want to come back to that. I want to go research it a little bit more. 02:36:32
So if let's say you walk down that road and the developer builds a Rd. 02:36:36
That is over a. 02:36:41
Landfill. 02:36:43
It would be upon the city. 02:36:44
To pay or to fix? 02:36:46
That particular problem and by having a standard in that's high. 02:36:48
You're risking or taking the liability and saying. 02:36:53
We already know based off of hundreds of hours of research that compacted land might be good and they try to do it, but at the end 02:36:56
of the day. 02:36:59
Whatever given reason. 02:37:03
Compacted naturally over thousands of years is more stable and so if we give a variance on that. 02:37:05
Then you don't know. 02:37:12
I mean, I can't tell you how many hundreds of. 02:37:15
Parcels around Vineyard have settled. 02:37:17
After the fact of them saying well. 02:37:21
They compacted it to a level and they tried and they did their best and they did all the standards but. 02:37:24
It ended up just not. 02:37:29
Just earth moves. 02:37:31
So yeah, no, and I'm 100% with you like I avoiding any of that liability going through all those studies. I I think I'm just 02:37:33
saying. 02:37:37
I would like to go and research it and study it more and understand it a little bit better before I. 02:37:42
Yeah, if I could make a little point of clarification too. So I. 02:37:48
I kind of understood it a lot. Like Cal, Jake just said, it's kind of a liability issue, right? 02:37:53
But I also understand that there's there's areas in the city like the Camus that we have planned on developing. So we added 02:37:59
language to that section that. 02:38:04
That basically said that it can still be developed on as long as it goes through all the. 02:38:09
State. Federal. Local. 02:38:14
Environmental regulations and and all those all those things. So it just kind of adds. So there's a caveat inside of are you 02:38:16
saying the camo? 02:38:20
We plan on developing the Cambo. Is that what you said? Yeah, that's that's that's what we're talking about here is the. 02:38:24
If I'm if I'm correct that that the Camus the only the only use for the Camus is if you put. 02:38:30
Some kind of payment on top? 02:38:37
You can't have and you. 02:38:39
In the code. 02:38:41
Which I must have missed, you're saying? 02:38:42
There is an availability for that if it goes through all the right processes. Yeah, as long as it goes through all the all the 02:38:45
environmental, federal, state and local regulations and processes, then the city engineer or public works director. 02:38:52
Maybe I have it. 02:39:01
In print. 02:39:04
Find this section for you. 02:39:06
I think if those two. 02:39:13
Things are there that say. 02:39:15
As far as leaving rail and the caveat for developing those areas, because it's such a large swath of land and as long as it goes 02:39:22
through all the processes to avoid liability. 02:39:27
That was my main concern and like I said, I'm 100% with Jake wanting to avoid any liability and any problems like that, but if 02:39:33
there is something inside of it that says hey. 02:39:38
If. 02:39:42
This works out and it looks right, and there's that option. 02:39:43
That makes more sense to, I think. 02:39:47
If if the. 02:39:49
And this may be a question for your city attorney, but you could probably. 02:39:50
A vote to approve it. 02:39:55
Based on that. 02:39:57
Being in the actual ordinance. 02:40:00
And then? 02:40:04
If it's already there, then it doesn't have to be changed. If it's not, it can be added. 02:40:06
Patrick, is there urgency to adopt this today and not at the next Council meeting? 02:40:10
Not, not a huge urgency. I mean, we, we have just been in this process for a long time. Our, our current standards and 02:40:17
specifications are quite old, you know, dating back to. 02:40:22
20/16/2007 I think, where the Council has taken up. 02:40:28
This. 02:40:32
Ordinance. 02:40:34
If you did have an application that came in in the next month, you could still. 02:40:35
Weight and apply. 02:40:39
These standards once we have them on the table, because they're on the table already. 02:40:42
There's enough concern in this. 02:40:47
That I. 02:40:50
I think it would be worth the wait. 02:40:51
I I think, yeah. 02:40:53
Councilmember Holdaway's point is worth looking at because. 02:40:56
We don't want the city to be left holding the. 02:40:59
The bag, so to speak, if. 02:41:02
A developer constructs. 02:41:05
On top of compacted soil. 02:41:06
And then you have settling in the city's responsible for the maintenance or upkeep of that. 02:41:09
Because you'll have more than your routine maintenance, You're going to have to go back in, bring in fill, recompact with soil, 02:41:15
deal with whatever utilities are underneath. 02:41:18
I wonder if there's a way to allow. 02:41:23
If you then have the other problem of are there certain? 02:41:27
Properties within the city that would be undevelopable or unusable. 02:41:30
If you didn't allow for. 02:41:35
Paving. 02:41:38
Over compacted soils and I think what we need to figure out is. 02:41:39
If you allow for that type of thing, what are the circumstances where you allow it? That gets at what Patrick's talking about. 02:41:43
But the other thing I'd like to look at is. 02:41:50
Do you allow it only with? 02:41:52
Some kind of protection being provided by the developer to the city, right maybe a bond, maybe an insurance product right let's 02:41:55
figure out what that is and pair it so that if that use is allowed and we're. 02:42:02
Permitting it based on information put forward by the developer that the developer backs it with either a warranty or some kind 02:42:08
of. 02:42:12
Product that the city can call on to protect itself OK yeah this is an assume I'm sorry. I was I stopped I had stopped out earlier 02:42:16
I just had to do some of the other items. But in essence I. 02:42:22
We're talking about pairing pavements on top of. 02:42:29
The Karen Center, OK, those things, I mean. 02:42:32
In essence, we can insist on in essence, what's called a performance based design. 02:42:35
I mean in a sense like. 02:42:42
The I mean, I'm an engineer. 02:42:44
Yeah, I pretend to be once every once in a while, but I'm an engineer and. 02:42:48
The the age-old we built it based on the safe standards or redesigned based on the save standards. It doesn't hold much water. 02:42:52
On that I say that as an as because I act as an expert engineer witness. 02:43:01
On several matters and cases. 02:43:07
Were just because. 02:43:09
An engineer designed to the certain standards and so forth. If it doesn't come to if it doesn't perform the way that is intended 02:43:12
to perform. 02:43:15
The engineer of record, the contractor and primarily the engineer records still holds liability to ensure that the performance of 02:43:18
that. 02:43:23
Was to. 02:43:27
Meet the requirements of the intended purposes and they can't hide behind well, I just followed so and so standards. Therefore I'm 02:43:28
I'm not liable. I say this having. 02:43:34
Recently. 02:43:41
Like 20 foot rockery failures where they followed a certain city's standard to the T but it failed within and like it failed 02:43:45
within like less than 10 years. 02:43:49
On that. 02:43:54
And then of course, like building collapses and so forth. 02:43:55
So again. 02:43:59
On something like this I would say that the. 02:44:01
Kind of a based on Jamie's point, I mean there is a bond, there's warranties on there, but even past that there is. 02:44:03
I'll say that there is liability. 02:44:08
The engineers by themselves. 02:44:11
Do have a? 02:44:14
Liability that they're that they had to, they have to abide to. 02:44:15
Yeah, I like all of that. I think that's fine. So the recommendation is to continue it to the next meeting then? Yeah, that would 02:44:18
be my recommendation. And then let's work language into the. 02:44:23
I've into the ordinance that will protect the city. 02:44:28
OK, I found this section in wording if you're curious to hear it now, Sure. 02:44:31
So it's 1.08.09 specialized engineering. 02:44:35
So, landfill construction debris or garbage. Any work around and related to landfills or areas with buried debris, waste or 02:44:39
garbage will require phase one environmental report with recommendations for additional study. 02:44:45
No buildings, paved parking lots, paved roads, curb, gutter, sidewalks or allowed. 02:44:51
Are allowed. 02:44:56
To be located over landfills, construction debris or garbage unless otherwise approved by the appropriate federal, state, and or 02:44:57
city agency having jurisdiction. 02:45:01
OK, that's great. 02:45:06
So it looks like if anybody makes an application, we can already. 02:45:07
Work within these. 02:45:11
The processes that you've outlined before us, this was really thorough and helpful. Thank you so much. 02:45:12
And I just need a motion to continue it to the next. 02:45:18
Are we, are we expecting a development to come? 02:45:22
Is under this. 02:45:26
I don't think so. 02:45:27
I think before the end of the year. 02:45:28
To us, is there somebody that's like, well, it would apply to? 02:45:30
Lot or parcel that pulls a building permit, right? 02:45:35
What would be expected so? 02:45:39
Maybe, but I don't know that we have. 02:45:41
Large application pending or are we expecting the orchards before the end of the year? 02:45:44
Not a new phase, no. 02:45:50
Yeah, there's always, there's always continuing developments coming up. 02:45:53
But the developers have been really good to work with us on on getting what we. 02:45:57
What we want anyway. 02:46:02
These these standards just kind of. 02:46:03
Protect us so that. 02:46:06
If we if we make an ask, we, we say this, this is in our standards, right? They they cannot dispute it. 02:46:08
But yeah, there's no immediate development reason why we wouldn't just. 02:46:15
Approve this and then come back and make the small changes that you're talking about because I think there's so much protection. 02:46:18
You could do that as well. Let's just do that because there's so much protection in what he's talking about. 02:46:24
That we could just carve out what we. 02:46:29
Don't like? 02:46:31
Like what you're saying? 02:46:33
I do want to add that it's kind of our goal. 02:46:35
Letting standards go several years without an update is not. 02:46:39
Good practice generally. So as I read through, I was actually concerned about the liability of like so many of these things. If 02:46:43
you let's get this in this fact, if you want to go that direction, that makes sense. 02:46:48
What I would recommend so that you don't have to re notice a public hearing. 02:46:53
Is that you continue not just the ordinance but also the hearing? 02:46:58
To the next meeting and then. 02:47:03
That way you can adopt what you have now but not have to re notice things. 02:47:07
So how would the motion look? Let me I guess look at Naseem or should we just re notice it for the next meeting also? 02:47:11
So we'll adopt tonight. 02:47:19
Let me restate it. I didn't say that very clearly. 02:47:21
To adopt an ordinance with development standards, you have to go through the land use notice and comment, right? So it goes not 02:47:24
just the council, but to. 02:47:29
Your Planning Commission. 02:47:34
You have already done that, so you've. 02:47:35
And you've held part of the public hearing today. 02:47:39
I don't want to. 02:47:41
Have to redo all of the. 02:47:42
Procedure before. 02:47:44
You make an additional change in your next meeting. 02:47:46
So I think what you. 02:47:50
Probably. 02:47:53
I'm going to think out loud on this and I. 02:47:54
Hope I'm not wrong. 02:47:56
On it but. 02:47:57
If you wish to adopt it today, I think you probably have to rehear it before it comes to you at your next meeting. 02:48:00
If you wish to continue it. 02:48:07
To your next meeting then. 02:48:09
I don't think you have to redo the hearing because you've done that. You would just continue. 02:48:11
And make the decision at a later point in time. There's not a perfect answer. 02:48:16
With that procedural wrinkle. 02:48:21
What do you guys feel comfortable with this is you guys have in the next week or two like the the things that you want changed? 02:48:25
Like Mayor, do you? 02:48:32
Just the compaction of dirt thing. 02:48:35
It's that small thing. 02:48:37
Yeah, I I mean. 02:48:40
If you guys want to adopt it because you feel comfortable with it, I think that hits. 02:48:41
My thing, I think you could put additional protections in for liability like Jamie was saying. 02:48:46
Which is why you'd want to re notice it and put more things in. 02:48:51
There is AI mean the ordinance and. 02:48:55
I hope I'm right about this, but some of them bad levels could maybe may be may able to be addressed at the DRC level because 02:48:58
there's a part of the ordinance that allows. 02:49:03
For. 02:49:08
Areas, emissions and other. 02:49:09
Updates to meet certain statutes statutory standards to be done at the DRC, but the question the same is whether the city could 02:49:12
apply an additional. 02:49:16
Bond or insurance requirement for that kind of development, so I don't. 02:49:21
I think you're right as it relates to. 02:49:25
The engineer standing behind their work. But what that doesn't give you is a financial resource the city can turn to. 02:49:28
If what's constructed fails. 02:49:35
And so I. 02:49:38
I'd like the idea of if you have. 02:49:39
A requirement related to construction to design is that the language you used? 02:49:43
That you would pair it with. 02:49:48
Something that would make the city whole. 02:49:50
If it failed within a certain period of time. 02:49:53
On most construction you're going to have a one year warranty and maybe on. 02:49:56
Pavement over compacted soils, you extend that. 02:50:00
A period of time based on what's built. 02:50:04
I am not an engineer and so I don't want to speculate as to what that would be or what it might look like. 02:50:07
And I think we also have to look at the state law restrictions on how long you can hold those things and under what circumstances, 02:50:14
because there are there are more moving parts and. 02:50:18
Yeah, the structural failures I've been part of have been usually 7-8 years old. 02:50:25
And on that portion of it, but yeah, you're right. 02:50:30
So I don't know that I have a preference whether the city adopts. 02:50:34
Whether the Council adopts us today or at its next meeting, just know that. 02:50:37
If you adopt it today, we probably have to re notice it. This is what I think the new part through that process, this is what I'm 02:50:42
thinking. If no changes really come except for additional burden on removing liability from the city, let's continue it and put it 02:50:47
on like our consent agenda. If we add it something additional and if we don't, we'll have it on our consent agenda and we'll just 02:50:52
pass it as it. 02:50:57
Was resembled tonight. 02:51:02
You know. 02:51:03
Because to anybody's point, that says. 02:51:04
Something could happen where somebody makes an application, not that there is an application. 02:51:07
Jamie already said because we have these underway. 02:51:11
You can use these standards as a guide for what we're doing so. 02:51:15
Can I get a motion to continue it to the next meeting? 02:51:19
I'd be happy to do so, but I comment I wanted to make first. I think there is language in there about. 02:51:22
Bonding and accepting in. 02:51:28
Extended warranty. 02:51:31
I'm not sure if they're in. 02:51:32
This exact context or not, but I'm pretty sure I saw that in there. 02:51:33
There is a bonding section in the specifications so. 02:51:37
Our process that whenever there's a permit comes through, we we diagnose basically what what we would need it for a bond. 02:51:41
Based on the cost of construction or or what would happen and we. 02:51:48
We implement or we ask for a bond. 02:51:51
For each permit, it's kind of a permit by permit basis. OK. Would you mind continuing it? 02:51:54
OK, so move to continue it. 02:51:59
All right, can I get a second? 02:52:01
Second, thanks Sarah, all in favor. 02:52:03
Aye. 02:52:05
All right, that brings us to the close of our meeting. 02:52:06
Have a great night. 02:52:08
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Transcript

Event transcript
Get started. Today is November 12th, 2025. The time is. 00:00:00
6 almost 6:00 PM Do we need to wait till 6:00? 00:00:06
It's 5:59. We're going to wait one minute. 00:00:10
I'm early, but thank you for being here. 00:00:14
OK, now we're going to start. 00:00:31
It is November 12th, 2025. The time is 6:00 PM and I'm going to call the. 00:00:34
Vineyard City Council into session. We're going to start out with an invocation or an inspirational thought. And the Pledge of 00:00:40
Allegiance. I'm going to ask. 00:00:44
Councilmember Clausen if. 00:00:48
On the spot. 00:00:51
OK. 00:00:53
Our Father in heaven, we're grateful that we can be here this this evening to. 00:00:57
Discuss the the needs of the city and do the work of the city and. 00:01:01
We ask that our minds might be clear that we can. 00:01:06
Ask the right questions and get the right answers. And this we pray, the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. 00:01:10
All the rise. 00:01:17
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:01:21
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:01:26
One nation under. 00:01:29
Indivisible with. 00:01:32
All right, we have. 00:01:37
Matt Carter with us here today and he is going to talk to us about. 00:01:38
The front runner deputy project. 00:01:42
No, you are the front runner, deputy project manager for UTA. I was. 00:01:45
Almost saying your title is what we're going to be talking about, but what we're going to be talking about is. 00:01:49
The front runner double tracking. 00:01:54
In, that's going along the Wasatch Front. 00:01:56
Come on up. 00:02:00
Hello. Thank you for having us today. Thank you so much for coming. 00:02:07
My name is Matt Carter. I'm the Deputy Project Manager for the Front Runner 2X project. 00:02:10
This is Janelle Robertson. Janelle Robertson, I'm the UTA project manager. 00:02:15
We're going to. 00:02:20
If they believe we have a presentation is that. 00:02:21
Going to come up that we could share. 00:02:25
Do you have it on a flash drive or something like that? We could. 00:02:31
Get it loaded up. 00:02:34
Let's see in the seam it looks like you step. He's probably I. 00:02:36
Would guess getting that ready if he's. 00:02:40
It's like he stepped out. 00:02:42
Pictures up there. 00:02:49
Nassim, do you have the power the PowerPoint loaded up? 00:03:00
If you don't, we might. We may have it here. 00:03:08
Yeah, it's right there. It's. 00:03:12
Quick share on that. 00:03:15
Cash, they're my friends. If you want to e-mail it to me that can take my tablet and. 00:03:24
Big, but can they do it on my laptop? 00:03:30
Like if you. 00:03:34
So you could present it or you. 00:03:40
I've never gotten quite sure. 00:03:46
It's a 5050. 00:03:52
Jump into the start and then. 00:04:31
Yeah, I'll do 1 through 11. 00:04:33
I'm not optimistic. 00:04:47
Good music to play. 00:05:12
While we're waiting. 00:05:14
Jeopardy. 00:05:16
Yeah. Thank you. 00:05:27
Will that work? 00:05:30
Yep. 00:05:34
Right, I'm going to start the presentation with just some background information about the project and then Matt will go into. 00:05:39
More detail about the design and and the work that's. 00:05:46
Going on with that. 00:05:50
Let's see. 00:05:52
Oh, I see. It's a pattern. 00:05:55
So the Front Runner 2X project is a joint project between UTA and UDOT. 00:06:03
State funds. 00:06:08
That are partially funding the project and so UDOT is leading the procurement and the project. 00:06:09
Umm as it's moving forward with UTA as a partner. 00:06:15
Brian Allen, who's the project manager, had another City Council meeting he had to be to. 00:06:20
Tonight, so we're kind of just. 00:06:24
Splitting up the rolls here so we have. 00:06:26
You know somebody. 00:06:29
Here but. 00:06:30
Normally he would be here and present this information. 00:06:31
Just some overall information about Frontrunner, our first. 00:06:36
Trains in the north started running in 2008. 00:06:42
Was from Salt Lake City to Ogden. 00:06:45
And then we built track down to Provo, from Salt Lake City to Provo. 00:06:47
And that service started in 2012. 00:06:52
We have about. 00:06:55
48 million passengers. 00:06:56
Since the project started. 00:06:59
It's 83 miles. 00:07:01
Most of the corridor is a single track system. 00:07:03
In 2000. 00:07:08
24 We get about 14,500 riders a day. 00:07:09
And there are 16 stations in the corridor. 00:07:14
The Max speed on front runner is 79 miles an hour in the areas where. 00:07:18
We have enough room to get up to that speed. 00:07:24
So the purpose of the project as I mentioned with a 75% single track system. 00:07:29
We need to. 00:07:35
We can't provide very much service with that right now. We do 30 minute service in the peak hours and one hour service in the off 00:07:38
peak hours. 00:07:42
In order to provide more service. 00:07:46
What we need to. 00:07:49
Have more double tracking. 00:07:50
The umm. 00:07:52
Currently on the system about 90%. 00:07:54
That's about 90% capacity in certain segments and the grant that we're going after for. 00:07:57
With the Federal Transit Administration is to increase the capacity. 00:08:04
Of the system. 00:08:09
And the way that we're doing that is in. 00:08:10
Increasing the amount of double tracking that we have. 00:08:12
Benefits from the project is. 00:08:17
Increasing the frequency. So the project would increase the frequency to 15 minutes in the peak and 30 minutes in the off peak. 00:08:20
So significantly more service than we were able to provide now. 00:08:27
Improve the reliability of our system. 00:08:30
Right now, whenever one train is late with so much single track in the system, we get what we call cascading delays and it delays 00:08:34
every train in the system. And so then it kind of. 00:08:39
It causes a lot of problem for commuters so. 00:08:44
It's going to significantly help our reliability in the system. 00:08:46
Increasing the choice of travel in the Wasatch Front is very important. 00:08:50
Reason to do the project. 00:08:56
Overtime, I-15 is going to continue to get slower and slower, and it's getting harder and harder to. 00:08:58
Increase it for that demand. 00:09:05
Front runner is going to stay the same travel time, if not continue to get better as we continue to improve it. 00:09:08
Better air quality with having less vehicle miles traveled. 00:09:15
And with the increase in frequency, it really significantly is going to increase the ridership right now with, you know, you miss 00:09:19
your train and you have to wait an hour for the next train. 00:09:24
It doesn't make it a very attractive. 00:09:29
Mode of transportation and so the frequency is really expected to increase the ridership as well. 00:09:31
So this project has 11 double tracking sections, about 26 miles of additional double tracking. 00:09:40
One new station in Bluffdale. 00:09:47
At the point of the mountain development. 00:09:49
One track retract. 00:09:52
Alignment. 00:09:54
Near our current maintenance facility. 00:09:55
In order to run that additional service, we need 10 additional train sets. 00:09:58
And we need a maintenance facility to maintain those. 00:10:02
Additional trains. 00:10:06
So this is a video of which I have no hope is going to do anything because. 00:10:11
This is a PDF. 00:10:17
But if you want to see the video, we have a really good video online. 00:10:20
That kind of explains how the double tracking works and. 00:10:25
And why we're doing the project and you can just go to the front runner to X. 00:10:30
Project website and it's a really cool video and it explains how train operations work a little bit. 00:10:37
And how the double tracking is going to improve the service? 00:10:43
These are the areas where we're doing the double tracking. 00:10:51
The dark blue. 00:10:54
Areas are the areas where we have existing double track in the system. As you could see that's in very few locations. 00:10:56
And mostly just at the station. So those are the only. 00:11:02
Only places in the system where the trains can pass each other. 00:11:06
The red areas are where. 00:11:09
Extending those double tracking sections. 00:11:12
There's a lot in New York, in Utah County, so. 00:11:15
It should have a pretty good reliable. 00:11:19
Service here. 00:11:22
The purple box is where the new station will go. 00:11:24
Overall timeline, We are in the phase of completing the environmental work. 00:11:30
Finalizing the design and procuring the trains and looking toward a federal grant approval. 00:11:36
Construction is expected to be from 2027 to 2029. 00:11:43
With starting the service in 20-30. 00:11:48
The environmental process that we've done so far has been overseen by the Federal Transit Administration. 00:11:55
We have done a categorical exclusion which is a certain level of environmental documentation for each double tracking segment. 00:12:00
So that they can be independent projects. 00:12:10
And then there is a place. 00:12:13
Planning and environmental linkage document that we had produced. 00:12:15
Prior to that which? 00:12:18
Is for the entire Frontrunner 2X project. 00:12:19
Linking those projects together with the additional service. 00:12:23
And then for the environmental review, these are the typical. 00:12:30
Things that are reviewed in the environmental documentation and we have. 00:12:33
Terry here. Who was the person who's been leading this? If we have any questions or anything about the environmental 00:12:37
documentation. 00:12:41
And then I'm going to let Matt talk about the details of the. 00:12:48
Good design, sorry. 00:12:52
OK. So the segment that? 00:12:56
Involves Vineyard City. 00:12:57
Is the north of Orem segment it starts. 00:12:59
At the Vineyard station on the North End. 00:13:03
And extends. 00:13:05
There's double tracking around the Vineyard station will extend from where that double tracking ends at the South end of that 00:13:07
station. 00:13:11
Down to the Orem station where the double track. 00:13:15
Begins again to go around the Orem station. It's about 1.7 miles long. 00:13:18
Let's see, I gotta work. 00:13:27
Yeah, yes, girl. 00:13:29
We've tried to break up the strip map of the through the Vineyard area into three areas, but it's going to be kind of hard to see. 00:13:36
This is the North End. 00:13:44
It's by the school there. 00:13:47
By the. 00:13:50
Where the current turn out is that goes from double track to single track. 00:13:51
The most interesting piece of this area is we are going to have double crossovers in this area, which allows the trains to go back 00:13:57
and forth from one track to the other. 00:14:02
Those will. 00:14:08
Probably not be used very much. Generally speaking the trains will just use the straight through movements. 00:14:09
On the track, but in the event that one of the tracks in the system. 00:14:16
Gets blocked with a train that might be out of service or something going on in one of the tracks. It allows the. 00:14:21
Allows them to detour to the other track to get around so that we're not. 00:14:29
Limited to just a single track system in the whole area down here. 00:14:32
As we get more and more double track areas that are fully connected, we'll have more of these double crossovers through those 00:14:37
fully double tracked areas and since. 00:14:41
With this project, we'll have double track from Provo. 00:14:47
All the way to almost the Lehigh station. 00:14:50
We need these double crossover areas so that we can. 00:14:54
Get trains back and forth. 00:14:58
The next. 00:15:00
Areas kind of in that middle section. 00:15:04
Of the vineyard area. 00:15:06
It runs along the trail. 00:15:08
The plan here is that we would be building a track to the. 00:15:11
West of the current track. Between the current track and the trail. 00:15:16
The plan would be I think I have a cross section in this. 00:15:21
Which would show. 00:15:25
A little bit more of what that cross section would look like. 00:15:27
But generally speaking. 00:15:30
The area that's between the trail and the current track is where the new train would go. We would build a wall. 00:15:34
Directly adjacent to the eastern edge of the trail. 00:15:40
The trail would remain in place. 00:15:44
But the eastern side of the trail would be. 00:15:47
Have a. 00:15:52
Probably a short wall and that you'll see that in the. 00:15:52
In the cross section. 00:15:56
In this area, we begin to transition all of the tracks to the. 00:16:00
East as we go South. 00:16:06
We have a couple pinch point areas particularly. 00:16:08
The Geneva Road bridge. 00:16:12
When we go on to the Geneva Road bridge, our track is 10 feet from the. 00:16:14
Southern abutment of that bridge and so we can't get a track. 00:16:19
To the east side of our track through there. So we've got to push. 00:16:23
Union Pacific over a track and build. 00:16:28
Our new track between US and Union Pacific. 00:16:31
So that transition starts kind of where those blue lines are. Those blue lines are the transition of the UP tracks pushing. 00:16:38
A little bit to the east. 00:16:45
Umm. 00:16:49
This is kind of the southern end. 00:16:52
Of the project through this area. 00:16:55
We are building our track between our current track and Union Pacific. 00:16:57
We do not affect Vineyard Rd. 00:17:02
We do not affect those businesses between Vineyard Rd. and Geneva Rd. 00:17:06
We build underneath Geneva Rd. between. 00:17:10
The current up track in Union Pacific. 00:17:14
And then we. 00:17:16
Continue that through 400 S. 00:17:18
Where we cross at 400 S. 00:17:21
Essentially there'll be an additional track to the east, which is the new Union Pacific track that's been relocated and then our 00:17:24
track will be will fit in between. 00:17:28
The current set of tracks that cross across that. 00:17:33
Intersection, so there won't be a track any closer to Geneva Rd. on 400. 00:17:36
But there will be one on the on the east side. 00:17:41
I think that's generally the highlights of. 00:17:46
Work through. 00:17:49
Vineyard. Here's the cross section. 00:17:55
Of the area near the trail. 00:17:57
The area. 00:18:00
So this is our current track right here. 00:18:03
So this would be the new track that we would build. It'll be built 15 feet off of the center. 00:18:07
Of the existing track. 00:18:12
This is the current trail right here. 00:18:15
And so there would be a wall built right on the edge of that trail. 00:18:18
To accommodate. 00:18:22
The construction of that. 00:18:24
New track. 00:18:27
The wall height would be somewhere between zero and three or four feet, depending on where you are along that trail and how that 00:18:28
trail goes kind of up and down in relation to the current track. 00:18:33
The new track would be built at the same elevation as the. 00:18:38
As the the new track would be built at the same elevation as the existing track. 00:18:41
We have studied some noise impacts. Terry could answer questions. 00:18:54
In regards to it basically. 00:18:58
We have identified some. 00:19:01
Minor impacts. 00:19:04
To noise. 00:19:05
Mainly at the North End of near those double crossovers. 00:19:06
Umm, we are mitigating those by installing what's called a spring frog. 00:19:11
Turn out at those turnouts that will build those double crossovers. 00:19:19
Generally. 00:19:23
A turn out the major piece of noise and vibration. 00:19:25
Is the gap that the? 00:19:30
The wheel of the train has to go across to cross where the where the rails are crossing. 00:19:32
And in a spring frog. 00:19:38
It keeps that gap closed so that it can run on continuous rail except for when it's making the divergent move diverging movement, 00:19:41
so it wouldn't have a problem. 00:19:46
Wouldn't wouldn't make as much noise when it's just running in its daily? 00:19:51
Runs on the straight through track. 00:19:55
So with that frog our. 00:19:58
Our modeling and our analysis indicates that we've mitigated the. 00:20:01
Minor impacts due to noise. 00:20:06
We also looked at vibration. 00:20:12
The vibration analysis didn't show that there was anything that exceeded thresholds to justify any mitigation. 00:20:16
For vibration. 00:20:22
But again, the spring frogs that we're installing will also help with any. 00:20:25
With reducing the vibration. 00:20:28
In the area. 00:20:31
One of the things that is, I think, mentioned on the agenda is a cooperative agreement, a master agreement. 00:20:35
I believe that this master agreement is mostly associated with. 00:20:42
Utilities. 00:20:46
This is something that will probably it's being worked on right now between staff and UTA project management. 00:20:48
It just sets forth. 00:20:56
How we'll work together to get things relocated. 00:20:59
At Uta's expense, At Utah's expense to pay for any relocations that might need to take place. 00:21:02
Or. 00:21:08
Casings that might be need to be extended or things like that. 00:21:10
That's the. 00:21:14
The gist of that master agreement? 00:21:14
The master agreement mainly just talks about. 00:21:18
The how we would work together. 00:21:21
Then there would be a specific supplemental agreement for each. 00:21:23
Specific utility and how? 00:21:25
That'll get utilized. 00:21:28
Or how that will get relocated and paid for and costs and. 00:21:30
Anything specific associated with that? 00:21:33
Utility. 00:21:37
As far as next steps on the project, we'll. 00:21:43
Finish up all of our environmental. 00:21:46
Plans and things we will finish our design Our design is set to. 00:21:50
Go through. 00:21:55
Probably most of next year. 00:21:56
Before we're final. 00:21:59
With our design. 00:22:00
We have selected a contractor for the project, they're called Frontrunner Forward Partners. It's a joint venture between. 00:22:02
Umm, Stacy and Whitbeck and. 00:22:09
Ralph L Wadsworth. 00:22:12
And as Janelle mentioned, construction. 00:22:15
Could start as early as 2027, depends kind of a little bit on. 00:22:17
How our contractor stages the different? 00:22:22
Segments of work and where they'll go from there. 00:22:25
I think that's it. If you are interested there's some. 00:22:31
Our website, Our phone numbers. 00:22:35
If you search. 00:22:38
Front runner. 00:22:39
FR2X. 00:22:41
On YouTube, I think that video that we had in there pulls up pretty easy. 00:22:43
It looks just like that. 00:22:48
Front screen that was on. 00:22:49
Slide but. 00:22:51
It's pretty interesting video. It explains the. 00:22:52
The need of why we need to have double track in order to have trains pass and get more trains out on the system so. 00:22:55
Thank you for your time. Any questions that we can answer? 00:23:02
We're happy to do so. 00:23:06
OK, Council, do you have any questions? 00:23:07
I do. 00:23:11
I know with the train station there came requirements with housing. 00:23:13
And anything with the double track. Is there any requirements on? 00:23:17
Increasing density or beautification or with federal dollars sometimes comes strings attached is there. 00:23:21
Any known string strings attached on this? 00:23:27
Nothing that would be associated with the city. 00:23:30
For any zoning requirements or anything like that, there are strings attached as far as on our side and increasing capacity and 00:23:34
making sure that we are providing the service that we're saying that we're going to provide. 00:23:39
In our grant application. 00:23:46
So there are some things that we'll need to make sure that we. 00:23:48
Meet when we make the commitments to get the grant, but nothing for the city. 00:23:51
OK. 00:23:57
Well, thank you so much for coming down. We appreciate it and for informing us in our community about it. 00:23:58
And council, you'll have access to this. 00:24:03
PowerPoint and then we will. 00:24:06
Take that website that you gave us as well. 00:24:09
Thank you. OK, Thanks. OK. 00:24:12
All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our work session items. 00:24:15
And we're going to start with 3.1, our rental license. 00:24:19
By Maria Ortega Our Neighborhood Services Coordinator will be presenting this. 00:24:23
Just let me know. 00:24:59
Tom. 00:25:22
OK, perfect. So. 00:25:27
Over the past year. 00:25:29
Be in cash have been working on a. 00:25:31
Rental license program. 00:25:34
There we go. 00:25:40
And basically what this would do is it would require all rental dwellings within Vineyard to obtain a business license. 00:25:44
That would be excluding any ad use as well as any. 00:25:51
Rentals for immediate families. 00:25:54
And then any of the apartment buildings. 00:25:56
This would include a new application, a business license fee. 00:26:00
Parking requirements and inspections. 00:26:03
And then? 00:26:06
The last point is just to let you know that the state law does authorize us to do this and there's many other cities in Utah that. 00:26:07
Have this right now and that are there are some of them clear field Orem Provo. 00:26:13
The purpose of this is really just to provide. 00:26:20
Resources to control occupancy. That's been one of the biggest issues that I've had. 00:26:23
While doing code enforcement and neighborhood services. 00:26:27
As well as providing adequate living conditions and providing renters with resources. 00:26:30
To know what? 00:26:36
Their rights are. 00:26:37
And then to ensure that landlords are providing. 00:26:40
A good amount of parking spaces. 00:26:42
It also helps with unpaid utility issues and it helps us collect information on who's in the home as well as landlords and the 00:26:46
management companies. 00:26:51
Here's just a timeline of what we have, kind of. 00:26:57
In mind. 00:27:01
We are currently doing a disproportionate fee study. 00:27:02
And a licensed study than we plan on doing public outreach. 00:27:05
One thing we want to kind of talk about is. 00:27:09
The different forms we were planning on doing kind of online outreach as well as possibly some. 00:27:12
Some public houses open homes. 00:27:17
And then we would do. 00:27:20
Council review at that time in March, as well as we have a communications plan on. 00:27:22
Different things that we're going to do to. 00:27:29
Put it out there in social media. 00:27:32
As well as when it would begin in July of next year is the goal. 00:27:33
There we go. 00:27:39
And then that's just kind of some of the communication things again that we have. We have Flyers that will be sending out. 00:27:40
Public meetings such as City Council. We want to add a page to our website and add it to the newsletter. Utility bills. 00:27:46
As well as we'd create. 00:27:52
Flyers and content that would be for landlords and tenants. 00:27:54
In English and Spanish, because we do know that there is quite a bit of tenants that are mainly Spanish speakers. 00:27:58
And then for this. 00:28:07
The application that we have in mind would be just one application, even if. 00:28:09
A landlord owns multiple homes. 00:28:13
They would just list every home that they have on that main application. 00:28:17
We would need valid contact information from them including e-mail, phone number. 00:28:21
If the owner does not live within 20 miles of the rental dwelling. 00:28:25
We would require them to have a property owner. 00:28:29
And have that properties under information so that if there is. 00:28:31
Any reason an issue at the property? 00:28:35
We can reach out to the property management company instead. 00:28:37
We need the number of individuals renting out the unit. 00:28:41
The number of offset parking spaces that they are providing. 00:28:44
As well as. 00:28:47
An acknowledgment that they've. 00:28:49
Spoken to the HOA and that they. 00:28:50
Are in agreeance that they are renting out the unit. 00:28:53
Inspections. 00:28:58
We do plan on doing inspections on properties. 00:28:59
We have two different options that we're looking at right now. One of them is a one year renewal where there would be an initial 00:29:02
inspection. 00:29:06
And then any further inspection would be based on complaints. 00:29:09
And then a two year renewal. 00:29:12
Where this would have an initial inspection. 00:29:14
And then it would require a biannual inspection. This is closer to our Adu license that we currently have. 00:29:16
And then? 00:29:24
Yeah. And with most of these points, we do want to have this as a discussion maybe at the end. 00:29:27
For that to see what that does to the county averages. 00:30:02
And then just recently we have started working with Zion Public Finance to determine the fee that would be. 00:30:04
Right for for Vineyard and so they essentially they just analyze how much staff time it takes to accept these applications, update 00:30:10
the websites, do these inspections. 00:30:14
And go on from there. You said Science Bank. 00:30:20
Zion Zions Public Finance, Yeah. 00:30:22
And then we just kind of brainstormed some questions that were outside of the scope of this and and just wanted to address those 00:30:26
so. 00:30:29
How will this be enforced just through our basic code enforcement process? 00:30:33
So if we do get reports of a rental and they don't have a license, we'll use, you know, our code enforcement personnel to reach 00:30:38
out to the property owners and get them to come into compliance, whether that's get a license or clear up if they're not a rental. 00:30:43
The fee is going to be placed is the responsibility of the property owner. They are the ones that have to fill out the 00:30:51
application, pay the fee. The the tenant cannot do that. 00:30:54
All rental properties that do not have professional on site management will have to get this license. So this mostly excludes 00:30:59
properties along Mill Rd. except for Edgewater townhomes. 00:31:04
Just because they have that on site management, we just don't have issues with occupancy or maintenance issues, so. 00:31:10
And then the the hardest part is probably that last question is how are we going to find the properties that don't proactively 00:31:19
register because we definitely are going to do the best that we can to outreach to everybody in the city saying this is a 00:31:23
requirement, you do need to get this license, but there will be some that. 00:31:27
Just don't get a license. And so I've been talking with other cities throughout the state to figure out kind of what they've done. 00:31:31
And a lot of them have just. 00:31:37
Taking it through code enforcement that as they get complaints they just. 00:31:38
Work it through the system. 00:31:41
But we do have some tools such as the county partial data and utility counts. So on the county website, if we see that somebody 00:31:43
owns multiple properties, we can assume they're not living it every single one of those houses. And so we can then reach out to 00:31:48
them and let them know they need the license. And same thing with the utility accounts. We have a list of kind of existing rentals 00:31:52
that we can utilize. 00:31:57
And then like I said before the report concern tool. 00:32:02
So that's all we have prepared. But like we said, this is a work session so we're in the middle of writing the language for this 00:32:05
and would love feedback on what you like, what you don't like, and how we should proceed. 00:32:10
Can I get some clarity on a few things? Yeah. 00:32:14
I missed a portion of what you were. 00:32:18
Speaking about when you said the. 00:32:20
Properties that were included. 00:32:22
And you also mentioned. 00:32:24
How we have an Adu application? 00:32:27
So this would not apply to the 80 correct? Just 880 user are treated separately under state law. 00:32:29
And so we felt that it was proper to treat them under this. So essentially we'll have one portal where it'll be like you need to 00:32:35
obtain a rental license. And from there you can say it's an accessory dwelling unit, as in I live on site and I'm renting out my 00:32:39
basement or whatever it may be. 00:32:43
Or there's the. 00:32:47
I have a house in vineyards that I don't live at and I'm renting out the whole thing. 00:32:49
OK. And then the second question that I had a. 00:32:53
On this one I have a few more questions but. 00:32:56
The housing that you mentioned along Mill Rd. having management already, does that pertain to all of our HOA's that have 00:32:59
management? 00:33:04
Oh, no, absolutely not. OK. So, so something like just excluding. Yeah. So like like the ones that are in like neighborhoods like. 00:33:08
Tucker Rowe, the Locks, the preserve, Lakefront Town Center, they'll have H ways they don't have on site management and they're 00:33:17
all individually owned units, meaning like in Lakefront for example, I think we have 700. 00:33:22
Unique owners of the condos and townhomes there, meaning there could be up to 700 rentals there with different property managers 00:33:28
and whatnot. Where the Vine, for example, we have one property manager on site at all times that we work with. So it was Vine, 00:33:33
Concord and Alloy. 00:33:38
Yeah, and. 00:33:42
Mill Point and also the orchards that are just being built right now. 00:33:44
Then you mentioned that the way that you would do enforcement, what is the rate of participation for other cities that are doing 00:33:48
it such as Orem? I I believe Orem, when I reached out to them, they said they believe they have about 50% of their properties in 00:33:52
compliance. 00:33:56
OK, how do you? 00:34:02
Are you done? 00:34:04
Yeah, go ahead, Jake. 00:34:05
How do you legally exclude certain sections like them and not like run into any issues legally? 00:34:06
Like how do we exclude like the vine? 00:34:14
So the count, yes, the Council can just say good question. 00:34:16
We're going to have this fee for some so. 00:34:19
One reason is a state law that does allow for these rental dwelling licenses requires that. 00:34:23
An owner only has to get one license regardless of how many units they got. So we could include the vine. 00:34:27
But in that case, we are and. And Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong, if you're brushed up on this, but. 00:34:32
Essentially, the Vine would get one license for all of their units and I don't know if that would do any good for the city because 00:34:38
we aren't necessarily having, we're not dealing with their parking issues. Most of those are dealt within the development 00:34:42
themselves. 00:34:46
But uh. 00:34:51
The city can. I'm just. 00:34:51
Legally we can say hey this. 00:34:53
HOA yes, this HOA no. They will have to. 00:34:56
Have a single license. 00:34:59
But other welcome. 00:35:01
It's one business. 00:35:02
Even though they're renting multiple units. 00:35:04
So what if somebody does own multiple houses? They would just have 1. You would just have one license. They they too would apply 00:35:07
for a single license and then. 00:35:10
But they they will list out all of their properties and we still could do inspections on all of those properties. I was gonna say 00:35:14
like it needs to be equal under the. 00:35:17
They and they would, they still would have the right to inspect and do other things on the property too. So Jamie, Jamie that that 00:35:21
would be a change from how it's written right now. 00:35:25
Like, yeah, well, we'll work on that language. You will need to make that change. I don't think you can exclude. 00:35:30
A business from the license requirement or a landlord, so to speak, right? 00:35:36
Everybody would be subject to it. We may need to work through. 00:35:40
The provisions on inspection just to make sure that it is applied. 00:35:44
And equitable way. 00:35:49
So how we were doing is because the apartment complexes are paying for management. So they're they're they're kind of going to 00:35:50
step above. I think that's fine. You could put an exclusion in the ordinance on that basis and then you. 00:35:56
You would for bear inspections for those types of units. I think you still ought to require a license. 00:36:02
At least a business license, yeah. 00:36:09
Yeah, well, and the rental license? 00:36:11
You you will run into other. 00:36:13
Owners that own multiple properties do also have. 00:36:16
Property management companies running them. 00:36:19
Yeah. And that's why I think the language that I originally wrote like on site. 00:36:22
Professional management meaning like. 00:36:26
There was like for example, the Vine, you can go there and you can during business hours, you can go talk to their property 00:36:28
management, you can talk to their maintenance people on site where your average mom and pop landlord don't necessarily have that 00:36:32
service available. 00:36:36
Are other cities using proactive enforcement where they're looking at parcels or are they? 00:36:41
Relying on the 50% participation rates. 00:36:48
I would say it's a mix. 00:36:51
So, so Orem, for example, they did try at the very beginning they they looked at the county data. 00:36:52
To look at, you know, duplicate records and whatnot and sent out. 00:36:57
To those specific addresses or same thing with their utility accounts. 00:37:00
But in the end, it is, it's, it's a big enforcement thing and and that's one of the reasons Maria recently went full time in our 00:37:04
department was to help gear this up and then do these inspections and, and roll out this program. 00:37:10
It just a little fact in in Vineyard. According to the last census, I believe it was about 56% of the the homes in Vineyard are 00:37:16
all rentals. 00:37:20
That includes everything, not just, you know, your high density, that's single family homes, all that 56% and. 00:37:25
Without having any kind of data or any kind of contact with. 00:37:31
A majority of the residents of Vineyard, it's really hard for us to do any kind of code enforcement or anything like that. 00:37:34
When we don't have that information. 00:37:39
That's a good question. I mean a good comment. 00:37:41
My question is. 00:37:44
According to the state law, we've had to deal with long term rental. 00:37:45
Issues for occupation and it's very difficult to. 00:37:49
Manage those especially because you're not going to notice them by parcel type. Sometimes it's two floors being rented out and 00:37:54
those come in. 00:37:57
Will it? 00:38:02
Exist. 00:38:02
The same way. I mean, we're not going to have. 00:38:04
Proactive code enforcement on that it'll it'll exist the same way it This just makes it easier to enforce the the biggest thing 00:38:05
with. 00:38:09
Occupancy is that it's really hard right now how we have it in the code. 00:38:12
To enforce because we have nothing that. 00:38:17
Allows us to have permission to do inspections. 00:38:19
We have to ask the homeowner and if the homeowner doesn't want to because they know that they're out of compliance. 00:38:23
They can say no, and at that point it becomes. 00:38:28
Either I have enough evidence to. 00:38:31
Get a subpoena. 00:38:33
Or. 00:38:34
I have to just go based off of word of mouth. 00:38:35
And just say, OK, well. 00:38:37
They're saying they have 4:00. I'm going to agree they have 4:00 because I have no proof of it. 00:38:39
Even though we might have. 00:38:43
Tools that are letting us know if we have no concrete evidence. That's the hard part. 00:38:45
Versus this if we have you know? 00:38:48
Multiple people saying, hey, we've seen that there's eight people living in this home. 00:38:51
I could say, look, you have a license. 00:38:55
You've agreed to the terms of this license, so now we can do an inspection. 00:38:57
And that way we could verify that you either are in compliance or you're out of compliance. 00:39:02
OK. So anybody that has taken the time to participate in the activity and has agreed to this type of enforcement is going to? 00:39:06
Allow you to do this and our thought is that we're going to allow 50% of the people that like to. 00:39:14
Participate, we'll say. 00:39:21
To basically kind of change the way things are going because they have a desire to follow the law. 00:39:23
Yeah. And and really a lot of it is also is just. 00:39:28
As uh. 00:39:31
The city gets older and as the city grows. 00:39:32
What a lot of these cities are trying to prevent as well is. 00:39:34
Homes that aren't being maintained, and that's a big part of it as well. 00:39:38
Is that you're ensuring that these people who are renting these homes have livable conditions at the property owner is taking care 00:39:42
of it, they're not letting it get. 00:39:45
You know, mold either not letting pestle in there, they're not letting it just. 00:39:49
Dilapidate. 00:39:53
And that's also a big thing that we're wanting to avoid now. 00:39:54
Versus later when it does start getting, you know, an issue, especially with like Orem and probably when I've talked to them, 00:39:58
that's their biggest thing. 00:40:01
Is that a lot of the time is an occupancy, a lot of the time is just their livable conditions aren't there, aren't being met. 00:40:05
And that's something that some most the times attendants aren't aware of that they can reach out to the city and say hey. 00:40:11
My home. 00:40:17
Is. 00:40:18
Having water leaks. I'm having mold. 00:40:18
What am I supposed to do? 00:40:21
And they're unaware that they can reach out to us. So the goal is to try to. 00:40:22
Inform everybody of their rights. 00:40:25
I have a question you mentioned. 00:40:28
Parking requirements. 00:40:31
Was that specifically for? 00:40:33
Did you take it up? 00:40:36
There was a parking slide in here but I think this might be an old presentation, like it's not my latest save. 00:40:37
So explain what are what your rights or abilities will be with parking requirements. 00:40:43
Yeah. So how we have the parking? 00:40:48
Right now, for example, if somebody who's renting gets towed, they're gonna call the city and they're gonna say hey. 00:40:50
I live here. 00:40:55
And I was towed and this was unfair and we. 00:40:56
Be like sorry like you were parked illegally. Have you talked to your landlord? 00:40:59
And the landlord right now has really no responsibility to provide that parking for the the tenants. 00:41:03
You know, they, there's nothing the city can do to force them to do that. So, so the, and we're still working on the language for 00:41:08
the parking to make sure it's compliant with, with state code on this. But essentially we're saying that. 00:41:13
You have to be able to every on-site parking space. 00:41:18
That you have has to be available for the tenants. We'll see some instances where somebody will. 00:41:21
Rent out a house, but they won't let their tenants park in the garage. So now their tenants are parking on the street or in the 00:41:25
driveway. So now we're saying if you have parking spaces on site, they need to be available to the tenants to use. 00:41:30
We are also requesting put in the the language that. 00:41:36
Every occupant who has a vehicle must have an off site parking space essentially. 00:41:40
So it does require that if I'm a landlord and I have a condo, say in the lakefront community where you're parking in the driveway, 00:41:45
in the garage and then you have a parking pass. 00:41:49
You can then rent up to three people. 00:41:53
Because that's the parking you're providing and you're no longer putting that burden on the the city or or other communities, 00:41:54
other neighborhoods to provide for those those landlords. 00:41:59
So for like a house. 00:42:03
Let's just say house and. 00:42:06
If they have four people living there, would you would this program? 00:42:09
Actually allow I guess. 00:42:14
Could we be allowed to require them to utilize the garage on the driveway for those four people or would? 00:42:17
Since it's a public Rd. Yeah, because we don't have a parking permit, we couldn't say you have. 00:42:22
To park on site, we have to say. 00:42:26
Provide the parking available so that's something we could check when we do our inspection and say we look at the garage and the 00:42:27
garage is jam packed as a storaging or whatever. 00:42:31
We can say we are not. 00:42:36
Permitting this or we're not going to pass this inspection because you are not providing the adequate parking for this, this need 00:42:37
or this use. 00:42:40
All right. That's a good question, Marty, because. 00:42:44
Otherwise it might conflict with ad use even though we're viewing them separately. 00:42:47
The state law is kind of the right. Yeah. No, we don't do parking. I like that this is separate from Adus, because you're right. 00:42:51
Yeah, the. 00:42:55
We can't require the additional parking spot for you, right? Right. We just have to require 4 spots and that's it. But it might 00:42:59
conflict even either way. So yeah, even if we are doing. 00:43:03
OK. 00:43:08
My question is about the 50%. 00:43:11
Don't choose to. 00:43:14
Get a license. 00:43:15
Because my guess is. 00:43:18
That house in La Chaminade that's got eight guys living in it. 00:43:20
With seven cars. 00:43:25
Or 9 cars. 00:43:28
That their landlord is. 00:43:32
Going to choose not to do that and. 00:43:34
I mean, Marty and I are probably talking about the same house. 00:43:35
But. 00:43:41
That landlords. 00:43:42
You know, just brush you off and say now I don't need that. 00:43:44
Like so in that case we do have enforcement mechanisms within this code as well as I. 00:43:47
I'm sure we could also look at enforcing our doing business without a license violations as well. So we do have some ways that we 00:43:51
could. 00:43:54
Essentially get them to come into compliance as we get those reports because essentially the other 50% that aren't necessarily 00:43:57
complying with the code. 00:44:00
Hopefully they're. 00:44:03
Just being good landlords and they're. 00:44:04
Tenants aren't causing a problem in the neighborhood. 00:44:06
For the second week, catch wind of a rental. 00:44:08
Causing a problem, we can go straight to the landlord. 00:44:11
Say, hey, we know you're operating this rental, you need to get a license. This is a new and you know what, we'll have some grace 00:44:14
is this is a new program we're rolling out, but you know, we're going to say you need to obtain a license. Here's how you're going 00:44:18
to do that You have. 00:44:22
X amount of days to come into compliance. If not, you're going to face a daily fee of X amount. 00:44:26
What are the improvements that allow you to do that enforcement? 00:44:30
What are the improvements? 00:44:34
Yeah, in this code. What is this code offer separately from what we do now that's suddenly going to allow us to have? 00:44:35
So just right now we don't require a rental to or a landlord to have a business license. 00:44:42
But now we will. 00:44:47
So we're essentially now saying you are now essentially doing business in the city of Vineyard without a license. 00:44:48
OK, I have a. 00:44:52
I have an example. 00:44:54
There is a house right now that has a lot of people living in it, but they're actually running a car dealership. 00:44:55
We hopefully took a care of that. 00:45:01
I need to take care of that. That one is actually dealt with as of now because I was going to say it's been reported. People want, 00:45:03
yeah, I got a report of it and it was taken care of within the time frame that it needed to be. So they were actually very quick 00:45:08
to comply. 00:45:12
OK. Yeah, OK. 00:45:17
Doesn't matter anymore. No, you're good. I dealt with that one. 00:45:18
I'm guessing. Any other questions? I'm guessing this doesn't change anything with Airbnbs. 00:45:23
No, so as of now Airbnbs are not permitted um. 00:45:27
And that is based on complaint basis as well. I have been handling those as they've come in when they don't have a license. How 00:45:30
are you solving that just? 00:45:34
Because our code does. 00:45:38
Explicitly state that they don't are not permitted, so we can still enforce it on that end. 00:45:39
Well, just to clarify, Sorry, sorry, Maria. Maria. 00:45:44
Pretty much right? 00:45:47
Short term rentals are allowed under a special project. So if you develop a commercial project in a commercial district that is 00:45:49
developed for short term rentals, kind of it's kind of like a hotel use. 00:45:55
But developed for that, we do have a code provision that allows that just. There's also a plethora of state codes that. 00:46:00
Kind of. 00:46:07
Bind cities hands for how they're able to do enforcement. 00:46:08
Yeah, there's an interest on torture rentals. Yeah, there was an update to the code this last legislative season that has made it 00:46:12
easier. 00:46:15
And so there are there were a couple of problem Airbnbs that have been dealt with since that. 00:46:19
Has passed. 00:46:24
OK, I know that we have a few that have been grandfathered in. I guess I'm wondering how many? 00:46:25
As of now, I have a list of three. 00:46:30
All right, Sophie. 00:46:33
A couple more, but they've been sold, so that does not roll over to the new owners. 00:46:35
Awesome. Any other questions from the Council at this time? 00:46:40
If you have any other thoughts, please send them to Maria and Cash as they work through this to bring it back to yeah, We'd love 00:46:43
to hear anybody's feedback on this. 00:46:46
As we move forward with it. 00:46:50
I just want to say well done. 00:46:51
Thanks, Sir. You've been great at helping encourage us to get this moving, so I appreciate that. Yeah, well, a year ago, right, we 00:46:52
had a parking meeting and that was one of the main concerns. 00:46:57
Was. 00:47:02
Over occupancy. So sure that that's for sure the one thing I do get on a. 00:47:03
Like a day-to-day basis is just, hey, there's so many people in this home. And so that was definitely something I was looking into 00:47:07
anyways, just because it it is an issue that we have to deal with at some point. Yeah, it makes sense for our community. So thank 00:47:12
you. Yeah. Yeah. Well done. Definitely. Thank you. 00:47:17
Thank you. 00:47:22
All right, Eric, you are going to be discussing the fuel card policy and agreement. 00:47:24
Yeah. Thank you. 00:47:30
OK, so the Vineyard city? 00:47:33
Fuel card policy is. 00:47:35
One deliverable from the audit that we've been working through. 00:47:37
To have a written. 00:47:41
Policy on this that increases accountability. It makes it easier for us to track. 00:47:43
Fuel usage. 00:47:48
And it also reduces any risk of. 00:47:50
Fraud, waste or abuse. 00:47:52
So kind of in summary and you have these before you that you can review, but. 00:47:54
The fuel fuel cars will be issued to specific vehicles. 00:47:59
The fuel card pins may be used. 00:48:03
Only for purchasing fuel for city vehicles and equipment. 00:48:06
Employees will enter accurate odometer readings, which again helps with tracking of this. 00:48:09
And vehicle identification information when prompted at the time of purchase. 00:48:15
The purchase of fuel or items for personal vehicles or non city purposes is prohibited. 00:48:23
As is splitting transactions to. 00:48:29
Bypass purchase limits. 00:48:32
As is misrepresentation of mileage, vehicle number. 00:48:34
Or other information. 00:48:38
From a monitoring standpoint, the fuel card activity shall be regularly reviewed to ensure comple. 00:48:40
Clients on this policy. 00:48:46
And it will be the supervisors who are responsible for monitoring card usage and ensuring that employees under their supervision 00:48:48
comply with the policy. 00:48:53
That's kind of a summary of that. 00:48:57
Did you have anything to add, Brett? 00:49:00
Excuse me? 00:49:04
Nothing to add, I do have questions but I'll hold off. 00:49:04
That Nope. It is now time for questions. 00:49:07
The the question I had and I this is as much so that we get an answer on record for everybody in case they're reviewing this. 00:49:10
The way the proposal reads. 00:49:21
If cards are issued to a vehicle and then you have a PIN and then there's. 00:49:25
Language about turning in cards and things like that. 00:49:30
Can you explain the relationship between? 00:49:33
The. 00:49:37
Card the vehicle and the person. 00:49:38
There's two, I guess you would. 00:49:42
Say there's two different types of relationships. 00:49:44
There are. 00:49:46
Vehicles that are assigned to individuals and so those ones would have. 00:49:47
Single pin for that driver. 00:49:51
And that driver is expected to always use that same card for that same vehicle. 00:49:54
Then there are shared vehicles in the city. 00:49:59
And with the shared vehicles? 00:50:02
The card will stay with the vehicle. 00:50:05
And anyone that's using that card will have to again use the same protocol so they enter the odometer. 00:50:07
And and that way over time you can kind of track. 00:50:14
The mileage used with the. 00:50:18
With the fuel used and from an audit standpoint, that's what they're kind of looking for is. 00:50:20
Is. 00:50:26
Variations. Kind of. 00:50:27
That extend beyond the expected for that amount of mileage. 00:50:28
And that vehicle, so that's that's how those two different types would work. And Christy has a thought too. 00:50:33
Just the pins for each employee will be different. So that's how we will know which employee put gas in that vehicle. That was 00:50:39
going to be my next question, so. 00:50:44
Excellent. 00:50:50
Any other questions? 00:50:53
No, I'd just say well done like. 00:50:58
Without this information, you're not able to track and understand or even investigate. And now with this ability, you'll be able 00:51:00
to. 00:51:03
Ascertain where issues are or arise if they come in. So good job, Brett. 00:51:07
Team and everyone. So yeah. 00:51:12
Thank you, Eric and Christy. 00:51:13
We'll move on to our transportation utility fee. 00:51:16
And we have a few people coming up. 00:51:21
Cody and Hales. 00:51:24
Cody Dieter with EFG Consulting and Hales Engineering is here. Naseem is anybody from our team? 00:51:27
Working on this as well. 00:51:33
I just want to make sure I. 00:51:35
State everybody's name who's presenting. 00:51:36
Just those two that you mentioned. 00:51:51
OK, mostly just me. I think so. OK. 00:51:52
While this is coming up, I just want to express appreciation to staff. 00:51:57
For their assistance with this project, they've been professional and very helpful. 00:52:01
As we've gone through this. 00:52:07
You've got a great staff. 00:52:10
So you should be. 00:52:11
Grateful for their work. 00:52:13
Thank you. 00:52:14
All right, do I just push the thing? Is that what I do? 00:52:22
There we go. OK, I got it. 00:52:28
I think so. 00:52:31
It was scared of you, so just take a second. 00:52:35
All right, so the first thing to share about the transportation utility fee is. 00:52:39
The statute currently does not exist. This explicitly allows the city to charge a transportation utility fee. In 2016, I assisted 00:52:43
Pleasant Grove City. 00:52:48
With the implement implementation of their transportation utility fee, the first in the state. 00:52:53
It was taken to the Supreme Court. So this ruling. 00:52:58
Now provides. 00:53:02
The only legal pathway currently. 00:53:03
For a city to charge a transportation utility fee, there was a proposed legislation last year that did not pass. 00:53:06
And it's likely that that will come back in the future and it will follow, we think if it follows the statute that was proposed 00:53:13
last year, it'll be similar to this. 00:53:18
So So what the the reason you have the authority to? 00:53:23
Levy a transportation utility fee or charge a transportation utility fee is under 10884 just the. 00:53:26
The general welfare of the city and your ability to. 00:53:34
Promote the things that are involved with running a city. 00:53:38
Specifically. 00:53:42
This ruling said you need to have a clear link between the demand for service. 00:53:43
That you're providing and what you charge. 00:53:49
So it's a very reasonable and sensible. 00:53:51
Link that needs to be created. The second is that you need to have a utility fee fund which you already have. 00:53:56
So that all of those expenses fall into this fund, It's easy to track. 00:54:02
For those residents of your city. 00:54:07
So we have followed that. 00:54:09
Methodology. 00:54:11
I had a quick question. Go ahead. 00:54:13
Just to make sure I understood you properly. 00:54:15
You said. 00:54:18
Legislation has come forward and it did not pass, but it might come back this legislative session. And your what you said was. 00:54:19
But you still feel like what you're presenting before us. 00:54:27
Will meet those changes, yes. 00:54:30
So it won't. 00:54:32
Suddenly come back because. 00:54:34
We had this. 00:54:35
Be and then we paused it. 00:54:37
And that's why we have some of this and now we would be resuming it because we waited for the Supreme Court ruling to go through. 00:54:39
That's correct. Yes. All right. So we're following that legislation, even if it didn't pass, we're following the same guidelines 00:54:43
that are provided therein and they. 00:54:48
Really, there's a little bit of nuance here, Mayor at the. 00:54:53
Pleasant Grove City was. 00:54:56
I'll say the bleeding edge. 00:54:58
Of. 00:54:59
Implementing this. 00:55:00
Where they implemented it, it was challenged. As he mentioned, it went to the Supreme Court. 00:55:01
Supreme Court decided. 00:55:06
The question before the Supreme Court was. 00:55:08
Is there transportation utility fee, a fee or a tax and there's a different process for? 00:55:11
Implementing. 00:55:15
Each thing and for transportation taxes there are specific sections and state code that limit. 00:55:16
Who can and under what circumstance they can implement those taxes? 00:55:22
The Supreme Court. 00:55:26
Said it's a fee, not a tax. 00:55:28
And then remanded it back down to the District Court for. 00:55:30
Pleasant Grove City to implement. 00:55:34
The fee. 00:55:36
And basically wait and see is that going to be challenged? 00:55:37
My understanding, and you'll probably have better information than I do on this, is that Pleasant Grove has now done that. 00:55:41
And. 00:55:47
That. 00:55:48
They don't believe it has been challenged, and my understanding with the legislature is they're basically in the holding pattern 00:55:49
to see how that shakes out. 00:55:52
And then? 00:55:56
What they'll try to do is implement legislation that will mirror. 00:55:57
What Pleasant Grove City and what other cities are doing. 00:56:02
To implement this so that that is kind of where we're at right now. 00:56:05
Is trying. 00:56:09
Replicate what Pleasant Grove City has done. 00:56:10
And have that in place and our expectation. I think my understanding of what the Legislature said fits pretty well with how you 00:56:13
described it. 00:56:17
OK. Thank you. You're welcome. 00:56:22
This slide is a. 00:56:25
Helpful exhibit. 00:56:27
To talk about. 00:56:29
That good roads cost less. 00:56:31
So the concept is you do receive money. 00:56:33
Right now from your general fund and from Class C Rd. funds and the sales tax. 00:56:35
But it is not currently sufficient. 00:56:42
To invest in your roadway so you can see that this. 00:56:44
Line here that starts off with $1,000,000 road and it goes down overtime the value of that road. Meaning if you got to year 10 you 00:56:48
would need to inject 300,000. 00:56:54
To get it back to where it was before and it has a very steep slope. So good roads cost less. If if we come in and and inject, you 00:56:59
know, 50,000 every five years in a good pavement management system, that is significantly cheaper than waiting for it to go all 00:57:06
the way down to a complete rebuild in year 20 to 25 and people are happier. 00:57:12
They don't have potholes in front of their house in year 10 or forward. 00:57:20
So that's just a good context about YFE is being considered by you and many other cities in the state right now. 00:57:25
Here's an overview of the methodology that we utilized. 00:57:32
So we first looked at all of your operating costs. 00:57:36
That go into the street department. 00:57:38
And extrapolate those forward for you know 1015 year period, we looked at all the capital projects so. 00:57:40
Josh with Hell's Engineering recently completed a master plan, transportation master plan that looks at all of your roadways, the 00:57:47
capacity, what's going to be needed over the next 10 or 15 years, including what's needed for. 00:57:53
Annual pavement management. 00:58:00
That's just generally needed across the city. 00:58:02
We then looked at the need for debt, if that would be needed to fund some of these. 00:58:05
These larger projects that have. 00:58:09
You know, 20 year lifespan and covering those rather than saving money. 00:58:12
To fund those up front. 00:58:17
Then applied financial metrics like how much money should you have in the rainy day fund in case there's a major emergency that 00:58:20
occurs? And also if you know when should debt be considered and how should that be looked at? 00:58:26
Then ultimately that landed with a revenue requirement. What is the annual revenue needed every year to ensure that you can 00:58:32
implement this system? 00:58:36
And then the final piece is then how do you go about collecting that revenue from users of your system in a fair and equitable 00:58:40
way? 00:58:44
So let's talk about a few of those things. We have developed a financial forecast. 00:58:48
And I could put the spreadsheet up there, I can provide it to you. 00:58:54
It has a tendency to put people to sleep, so this picture hopefully is more intuitive than a spreadsheet. 00:58:57
So this is a look at the expenditures. 00:59:04
Both historically for the last two years and what we project. 00:59:06
For the next. 00:59:09
10 years. 00:59:10
As you can see the green on the top. 00:59:11
Is your capital projects. 00:59:14
It's a meaningful amount of money. 00:59:16
That includes both new. 00:59:18
Development and. 00:59:19
Primarily. 00:59:21
Pavement Management. 00:59:21
The orange is another large piece on the bottom that is personnel. 00:59:23
And then the blue. 00:59:28
Piece in the middle. 00:59:31
Would be. 00:59:32
Using debt to pay for. 00:59:33
Large projects here. 00:59:36
That assumption is that. 00:59:38
That debt would be issued. 00:59:41
Secured by this transportation utility fee, it would not be a general obligation bond. 00:59:43
Excise tax or sales tax bond? It would be solely. 00:59:48
Dependent upon the utility fee itself. 00:59:52
So that would be. 00:59:55
Something that would be a proactive way to help. 00:59:57
Pay for those costs over the life of those assets by those who are being charged the fee upfront. 00:59:59
Here's another look at the capital projects. It's approximately $41 million. 01:00:07
Over the next 10 years. 01:00:13
The projects are listed there. 01:00:16
On the right, so the biggest is 28 million. 01:00:18
Almost 29 million of. 01:00:21
Of costs for pavement preservation. 01:00:23
And that is, you know, the annual amount that you're implementing. 01:00:26
We've also included the streetlights in this, so it's both a transportation and a streetlight fee. 01:00:30
So it would be updating your annual streetlight maintenance and then these. 01:00:36
Other projects. 01:00:40
You know 7-8 projects there are. 01:00:42
New capital projects that will be needed to be funded. 01:00:45
If you have any questions about any of those capital projects, I am not the person to ask, but Josh is here and it seems here as 01:00:48
well to answer any of those questions that you might have. 01:00:52
So I'll pause in case you have questions about any of those. 01:00:57
Capital projects. 01:01:00
Looking at your revenue structure. 01:01:06
The dark green at the bottom. 01:01:08
Is classy Rd. funds? 01:01:11
As you know, those come from. 01:01:13
The state gas tax. 01:01:14
That you pay at the pump. 01:01:17
The lighter green is the transportation tax, which is a portion of the sales tax. 01:01:19
We are considering implementing an impact fee. 01:01:24
And with. 01:01:27
Meaningful growth you have in the community that does have a large impact. 01:01:28
But as I mean it's obvious here the. 01:01:33
The rate revenue from. 01:01:35
This fee would be. 01:01:37
By and large, the largest portion of. 01:01:38
Of the revenue stream. 01:01:41
That we would be considering. 01:01:43
And just a note here that. 01:01:46
That we still have obligations. 01:01:47
To use those funds both. 01:01:49
The fee funds and the classy Rd. funds and others. 01:01:52
There's specific restrictions on how those funds would be used, so we're assuming that all those would be used. 01:01:55
Appropriately. 01:02:00
A couple of financial metrics to look at cash reserves. 01:02:04
It's important to. 01:02:07
Have a healthy fund balance. This will be an enterprise fund, meaning it needs to be self supporting. 01:02:09
So having a healthy cash balance is important. 01:02:14
The industry standard for cash balance is one year's worth of operating expenditures. 01:02:18
That's the same for your water and sewer utilities. That's probably how your rates were developed there. 01:02:23
So this shows that throughout that period you generally are above or below. 01:02:28
You know, here in 2033 you have a large capital project. As we get to that point, we may choose to. 01:02:32
To issue data if it helps with this issue but. 01:02:38
That far out? 01:02:41
It's not a huge problem to have a little bit below. 01:02:42
So it shows that this projection that we're meeting a healthy cash reserve overtime. 01:02:46
This slide. 01:02:52
Coverage. 01:02:53
What it means Debt service coverage. 01:02:54
And what that means is when you issue debt. 01:02:57
Lenders want to know or investors want to know that you have. 01:03:00
Healthy fund that covers operations first. 01:03:03
So this would be called a debt service coverage ratio, a net debt service pledge, meaning after you fund all of your operation and 01:03:08
maintenance and then you pay debt. 01:03:13
This blue line would mean you'd have a dollar and a quarter worth of. 01:03:18
Of revenue leftover to pay for every dollar worth of debt. 01:03:22
And you can see the orange line, you have a very healthy. 01:03:26
Coverage ratio, meaning you have the ability, if you chose to do so, to issue more debt in the future. 01:03:31
To help pay for these projects moving forward. 01:03:37
It's a very healthy. 01:03:39
Metric. 01:03:40
There's a lot going on here on this slide, but this represents. 01:03:42
Though both the growth rate. 01:03:45
In your community. 01:03:47
Measured on the right. 01:03:48
And. 01:03:50
The. 01:03:51
Likely or the. 01:03:52
The projected annual increase in rates measured on the right as well in these two orange lines. 01:03:54
So this orange line shows. 01:04:00
The annual rate increase would be around 3%. 01:04:02
And this. 01:04:06
Lighter orange shows that you're growing at about 9%, which isn't a surprise to you have a very. 01:04:08
Quick growing community. 01:04:14
The line that you care most about is what is the rate? 01:04:16
Per month. 01:04:19
Per equivalent residential unit. So for a resident or for. 01:04:20
An equivalent residential unit. 01:04:24
We're starting off at $5. 01:04:26
Moving up to around 7:00 and then by year 3. 01:04:29
$9 and then growing at 3% thereafter. 01:04:33
So looking at that more granularly so you can see it, it's this $5 number right here. 01:04:37
Would be the cost. 01:04:42
Dwelling Unit. 01:04:44
So let's just talk a little bit here on this rate structure. 01:04:47
We it's titled adjusted for axle. 01:04:51
So the equitable way to determine how you should allocate this fee is by. 01:04:55
Both. How many trips? 01:05:00
Each type of. 01:05:02
Zone generates. 01:05:04
So a residential unit is the base. 01:05:07
They have about what is it 7 or 8? 01:05:09
Trips. 01:05:11
7 or 8 trips per day. 01:05:12
So that's like the. 01:05:14
You know, just one trip. 01:05:16
That how does that equate to if you have an office or retail or commercial or industrial? 01:05:17
They have an equivalent adjustment. 01:05:22
But we're also adjusting for the fact that. 01:05:25
One small car is not the same as a semi truck. 01:05:28
So they have very different impacts on your Rd. system. 01:05:32
So the structure that we're suggesting to you is weighted by both trips and by axle weight. 01:05:35
So if we look at this column here. 01:05:41
The. 01:05:44
By type. 01:05:45
What we're suggesting to you is an office. 01:05:47
1000 square feet of office. 01:05:50
Has four times the impact. 01:05:52
That one residential unit has. 01:05:55
And retail and commercial has seven. 01:05:57
Almost 8 times. 01:05:59
The impact an industrial has almost. 01:06:00
9 1/2 times the impact of one residential unit. Those are all per 1000 square feet. 01:06:03
So we're suggesting that you should. 01:06:09
Weight more heavily the fee. 01:06:12
Because their impact is more. 01:06:14
Than a standard residential unit. 01:06:18
So the outcome here is if we have $5 is the residential rate. 01:06:21
Per unit. 01:06:26
The office would be $36. 01:06:27
Per 1000 square feet. 01:06:30
Retail commercial 70 and $0.50 per thousand. 01:06:32
And industrial $91.75 per thousand. 01:06:36
Is this a month? 01:06:39
Per month. 01:06:41
To the to the owner of the home. 01:06:45
So yeah, to the owner of the home, it would be $5. 01:06:47
Per month put on their utility fee. 01:06:51
Put on their utility be. 01:06:53
Garbage. 01:06:54
Water. Sewer. 01:06:55
Transportation utility fee. 01:06:56
That's right. 01:06:58
And so then a. 01:07:04
An office that's 2000 square feet of office would have. 01:07:07
$72 and. 01:07:10
$0.04. 01:07:11
Yes, per month, every month. That's correct. 01:07:12
And for illustration purposes, these are. This is the amount of. 01:07:18
Square footage that you have. 01:07:21
In each of those types. 01:07:23
In your community right now. 01:07:26
So you have. 01:07:27
278. 01:07:29
1000 square feet of office. 01:07:31
That's commercial and that's industrial. 01:07:33
We're also suggesting a specific. 01:07:39
Unique fee. 01:07:41
For just those businesses along 1750 N. 01:07:42
That road is in need of reconstruction. 01:07:46
So for a five year period there would be an additional. 01:07:49
$7.55. 01:07:53
Added to. 01:07:56
Their rate in that area specifically. 01:07:57
So that they could recoup that over a five year period. 01:08:02
Again, just a sample size. 01:08:07
Like you're you're talking about. 01:08:09
Councilman Clawson here's If it was 5000 square feet, this would what the fee would be per month. 01:08:11
For each of those users. 01:08:16
In terms of comparables these it's kind of small, but you can see there. 01:08:23
There are other communities that provide. 01:08:26
Charge this fee the most. 01:08:29
Comparable right now would be the city of South Salt Lake that's just recently adopted. 01:08:31
Their fee? 01:08:35
Using Axel 8. 01:08:37
Same structure. 01:08:38
They have chosen not to implement the residential fee. They will cover that through a general fund subsidy. 01:08:40
Because of the. 01:08:45
Council council's choice to do that. 01:08:47
Pleasant Grove you can see here. 01:08:50
This is a similar fee structure. You know they based on trips, not on axle load. 01:08:52
Same with provoke. 01:08:57
Kaysville and South Ogden. South Ogden has. 01:08:59
An enormous list. I think they have like. 01:09:02
15 or 20 different categories. 01:09:06
So you can. 01:09:08
It's much more detailed. 01:09:09
So you're generally in line with how those others work. There are other communities on this slide that are less detailed. They 01:09:11
just charge a fee, a flat fee. 01:09:15
So. 01:09:19
Highland, Mapleton. Pleasant. 01:09:20
View South Weber. 01:09:21
Fruit Heights, Farmington. They're just a very. 01:09:24
Simple flat fee. These have been in place for a while. 01:09:26
So that's what I have to share today. I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. 01:09:28
Great counsel, do you have any questions right now? If not, you can. 01:09:35
Schedule a meeting or. 01:09:39
Have a sit down. 01:09:40
Send an e-mail. 01:09:42
When is this being considered to be brought back to vote on? 01:09:45
I believe it's the 10th, is that right? 01:09:48
Yeah, of December 10th. 01:09:50
Yeah. 01:09:51
Any other questions? 01:09:55
Thank you. I do I. 01:09:59
I think it would be interesting to see some different models where the residential side is less. 01:10:02
And what that what kind of impact that might have on? 01:10:07
Businesses if. 01:10:11
So less than $5 changed some of those numbers. 01:10:13
OK. So I want to say the number that's been on our fee schedule, you know I'm looking over across there to. 01:10:16
Make sure I get right. It's 3:50. 01:10:23
Is what was on the. 01:10:25
The the the the old one. 01:10:26
Was 350, it was 350 and we just haven't been collecting it five years ago. And so this this number is kind of the inflation 01:10:28
adjusted version of that. 01:10:32
Sorry, but I would be curious what it would look like if. 01:10:38
For example, we just left it at the 3:50 in. 01:10:42
Then change some of those ratios. 01:10:45
If we're allowed to do that. 01:10:48
I can't. I don't understand why we wouldn't be allowed to do it, but we can do anything. 01:10:51
As long as it's fair, every long as everyone is treated fairly. 01:10:55
Within their category. 01:10:57
Yeah, I'm very concerned about this. 01:11:03
Because a year ago I talked about the failure of the RDA to bring in businesses to be able to. 01:11:05
Bring a tax structure. 01:11:11
Strong enough? 01:11:14
To be able to fund the city. 01:11:15
And this actually proves this, that we don't have a tax base here. 01:11:17
And this is finding another way to be able to. 01:11:22
To provide for our roads. 01:11:24
And I think having an open conversation, not attacking anyone. 01:11:26
But just being an open, honest. 01:11:30
Conversation of. 01:11:32
We are 15. 01:11:33
Or 2006. 01:11:35
19 years into the RDA. 01:11:38
And big businesses haven't come. 01:11:40
In and that's scary. 01:11:42
Because. 01:11:45
You have to turn to structures and I remember when Pleasant Grove. 01:11:47
Put this in and it was extremely controversial. 01:11:52
And anyone hearing this today? 01:11:55
Going January or December 10th is going to go. 01:11:57
Wow, that's a That's a huge. 01:12:00
You know, tax, it's a fee. 01:12:02
So it's not a tax. 01:12:05
And I remember the fight. 01:12:07
Fighting over. 01:12:08
Taxes and fees and. 01:12:09
And all of that. But thanks for the presentation. It's helpful. 01:12:11
You have to fund. 01:12:16
A government. 01:12:18
Right, but it just tells us how. 01:12:19
Essential. 01:12:21
The success and failure of our RDA is. 01:12:23
Well, I don't know. 01:12:29
Where there's so many cities that charge this, I don't know that you can say that specifically for the RDA. The RDA is in. 01:12:30
Progress. 01:12:36
And will be happening for the next. 01:12:38
25 to 50 years. 01:12:40
So 25 years from now, maybe. 01:12:42
But it's it's going to take time. 01:12:44
I don't have, I don't have a problem with the residential. I mean I spent an extra $4.00 for an extra garbage can, so. 01:12:47
So that one doesn't. 01:12:53
Bother me but the industrial seems so high. 01:12:55
Right. So it's like. 01:12:58
As a business owner. 01:13:00
You know, I'm thinking of the little businesses in the yard. 01:13:02
You know that it? 01:13:05
Feels like. 01:13:06
A big expense. 01:13:07
You know, but I could be wrong. 01:13:09
Well, So what I wonder is if. 01:13:11
Is if you could. 01:13:13
Somehow. 01:13:15
If if the businesses could show that they're creating a certain amount of. 01:13:16
Tax benefit. 01:13:20
To the city, if that. 01:13:22
If they could get a credit. 01:13:23
I don't know just well, I mean, I look at because I'm a business owner like we have a FedEx warehouse and vineyard. 01:13:26
And the wear and tear they put on the roads. 01:13:32
Versus. 01:13:35
What I put on the roads. So I mean, I see. 01:13:37
But not every. 01:13:39
Business and. 01:13:40
And Vineyard. 01:13:42
Not every industrial business has the same type of traffic as the FedEx warehouse, but. 01:13:44
I definitely see the value in this structure. 01:13:48
I think that tying it to the RDA. 01:13:52
Is kind of just like a. 01:13:56
We can analyze it and criticize it and dig into it all day long, but I think what you have to decide is. 01:13:58
How are you going to move in the future to pay for your roads? 01:14:05
So that's a, that's a good question. I wonder is there anything? 01:14:09
Because when we talk about businesses coming in. 01:14:14
And the rate of businesses and the RDA has been providing the backbone infrastructure and roads. 01:14:16
And we're really lucky. 01:14:22
To have that. 01:14:23
We've increased our businesses by like 50% over the last few years. 01:14:25
But to. 01:14:30
Point we do have to offset that, so if there was. 01:14:31
Do in your comparables. 01:14:36
Do are we looking at the economic? 01:14:39
Balance between. 01:14:41
The different cities and how much they're paying and how big of a. 01:14:43
Economic base they have. 01:14:47
Have have we been able to do that? I don't even know if that's something that you examine when looking at Rd. base and stuff. But 01:14:49
maybe together as a team we can take your study and then we can do those comparables ourselves and then as your take away, I 01:14:54
guess. 01:14:58
For what the Council is asking for. 01:15:03
Its models going back to our 350. 01:15:05
Is that something that we can look into and say, what does that look like? I mean, I think I saw Farmington was 350. Maybe we can 01:15:08
just compare those two. 01:15:12
So here's the first one where they have a detailed schedule. 01:15:18
So just look at that and then let me know when you want to look at the other. 01:15:21
Yeah, and then council, maybe what we could do is. 01:15:27
Take the time to sit down and meet with these guys and you can look at the different comparables. You can look at the ones that 01:15:30
are subsidizing. 01:15:34
You can look at the ones that have a lower model, like I think it was Farmington, and then maybe between our team and your team we 01:15:38
can look at. 01:15:42
What the business? 01:15:46
You know what their business base is there and what they're providing and then how they're offsetting it with. 01:15:48
Transportation fees. I do like how Pleasant Grove has a Tier 1 and Tier 2 commercial that would be interesting to. 01:15:53
See how that could be reflected in ours. 01:16:00
'Cause I mean. 01:16:03
No, nothing against FedEx, but I definitely feel like they should be paying more than. 01:16:06
A different warehouse if I could ask them and that that would be something good to look at because we have industrial your your 01:16:11
trucks are a lot heavier you're, you know like there's. 01:16:15
Just the weight of the vehicles is going to have a much bigger impact, so there might be some. 01:16:20
Usefulness in looking at. 01:16:25
OK, so I feel like everybody has their tasks. 01:16:28
Council, you're going to go sit down and look at these comparables that already came through. We're going to look at the business 01:16:31
base of all these comparables and then you guys are going to model the Farmington 350 kind of lower thing. 01:16:35
OK awesome, this is so helpful. 01:16:41
Any something to add, Eric? Just one quick clarification based on. 01:16:43
Question and. 01:16:47
It kind of teetered on two different categories. 01:16:48
Home based businesses will be treated as residential. 01:16:51
There won't be an added fee because you have a. 01:16:54
Whatever the home based business is. So it'll be $5 for those. 01:16:57
It's only when it goes to actual commercial that you'll see that adjustment to. 01:17:01
Commercial categories. 01:17:06
OK, awesome. 01:17:09
Thank you, Council. 01:17:11
All right, Jamie, this brings us to 3.4. This is the Vineyard Municipal Code amendment for Title 2. 01:17:14
Administration and Jamie's going to present. 01:17:21
Some of these changes. 01:17:25
Thank you, Mayor. 01:18:06
I have just a few slides to introduce this. 01:18:08
As you all know. 01:18:11
Last November. 01:18:14
Citizens elected or voted to. 01:18:15
Move from A5 to A6 member council form of government. 01:18:18
The election this fall reflected that, and so elected to the Council were. 01:18:22
Enough council members to form. 01:18:26
6 member. 01:18:28
Council form of government. 01:18:29
What that means is 5 council members and a non voting mayor. 01:18:31
On most issues. 01:18:35
With this change. 01:18:37
The city has to update its municipal code to reflect that. 01:18:38
Change. There are a few simple changes that will. 01:18:42
Need to be made. 01:18:46
Again. 01:18:47
The the ordinance that's been. 01:18:48
Presented. What we've attempted to do is clarify how that authority administratively and executively and among the Council. 01:18:50
Will function under the new form of. 01:18:59
Government. 01:19:01
The Council, of course, has statutory authority to establish policy and legislation in the city. 01:19:01
The mayor provides leadership and representation. 01:19:08
For the city and the city manager. 01:19:13
Handles the administration side, the daily operations side. 01:19:16
Of city government. 01:19:20
The state code references 103B306 that relates to 6 member council form of government and again to restate a little bit. 01:19:22
The council's legislative body returns all those powers. The mayor's the chief executive. 01:19:30
And then perform certain statutory functions and then the council by ordinance. 01:19:36
Is allowed to delegate executive or administrative duties to a city manager. 01:19:41
And they, you know. 01:19:45
Maintain flexibility overtime to remove or reinstate those duties as needed. 01:19:46
The. 01:19:51
These are the mayor's statutory powers, and they're reflected in. 01:19:52
The proposed ordinance. 01:19:56
The policy goals of the proposed ordinance are to protect the mayor's leadership and ceremonial roles. 01:19:59
Maintain the current delegation of day-to-day operations to a professional city manager so the code doesn't. 01:20:05
Upset anything that's occurring right now, but carries out forward to the new form of government. 01:20:12
Ensures that the city manager is accountable to the council as a body, not to individual members of the council. 01:20:18
And then maintains the rules applicable to transparency efficiency. 01:20:24
And good governance. 01:20:28
There are. 01:20:30
Some proposed code updates that include four different sections in Title 2, Chapter 4. 01:20:31
They relate to the mayor's duty. 01:20:38
The delegation of executive and administrative duties among the. 01:20:40
City manager and the mayor. 01:20:44
The definition of the city manager and the city manager's role. 01:20:47
And how the city manager functions visa via the mayor and the City Council. 01:20:52
And then sections on administrative route. 01:20:56
Relations among in between. 01:20:59
The Council. 01:21:02
And the mayor. And the city manager. 01:21:03
There also is a section that we needed to make a few adjustments to to make sure the two code sections interrelate and these are 01:21:05
the. 01:21:08
Provisions in 2.08 point 010. 01:21:12
That established the office of the city manager. How the city manager is appointed. 01:21:16
What the bonding, salary, term removal process, those kinds of things are? 01:21:20
And then making sure that if there are any conflicts between the two sections which which section controls. 01:21:25
I won't belabor the points, this is just a summary of. 01:21:33
What's in the document? But again, the goal was to clarify rather than change. 01:21:36
The existing practice make sure the code is aligned with. 01:21:41
The state. 01:21:44
Code sections that relate to A6 member framework. 01:21:46
Strengthen the partnership between elected leadership and professional administration and allow Vineyard to continue. 01:21:50
Operating as it has. 01:21:56
So. 01:21:58
In terms of next steps, this is being presented tonight for discussion and feedback from the Council. 01:21:59
In a work session at the next meeting, it will be brought forward with the formal ordinance for adoption. 01:22:04
We need to make sure it's adopted before the end of the year so that when the new. 01:22:11
Council is seated in. The new mayor is sworn in. 01:22:15
That this will be in place. 01:22:18
For them to function under that structure. 01:22:20
All right. Any questions or comments from the City Council? 01:22:23
With the vote, the new council can adjust. 01:22:32
Things as necessary, right to their liking. 01:22:35
There are certain statutory. 01:22:38
Duties and obligations that of course they can't change, but they have flexibility to. 01:22:40
Change order. Assign the delegation of. 01:22:45
What things the mayor does, what things the city manager does. 01:22:48
Yeah, on the administrative. 01:22:51
Side of that and we have the full thing to now yeah you have the. 01:22:54
Text. It's in the packet. 01:22:57
And you're welcome to look at that if you have things that you would like. 01:22:59
To discuss or talk through or change between now and the next meeting. 01:23:03
Ping me and we can. 01:23:07
And work on that. 01:23:09
OK. Any other questions or comments? 01:23:11
Thank you so much. I would just say inviting all citizens and to do a social media post about. 01:23:14
The ordinances and changes and post the. 01:23:20
The uh. 01:23:23
The detailed stuff online so that they can give us feedback before the next meeting because it is a big. 01:23:24
It's a happy thing, you know, that we all worked on on the change of government and. 01:23:29
Getting feedback before the next meeting would be cool. 01:23:34
OK. 01:23:36
Eric is on that. 01:23:39
3.5 is going to be continued. 01:23:41
Do we need a motion to continue this item or can I? 01:23:44
Assign it to a different agenda. 01:23:47
Do we need to make a motion? No. You. 01:23:54
You don't need to make a motion. You can simply continue it. I think the reason for the continuance is it's notice for a hearing 01:23:56
before the Planning Commission and OK. 01:24:00
My recommendation is to allow the Planning Commission. 01:24:04
For the hearing and for them to. 01:24:07
Fulfill their. 01:24:09
Obligations. 01:24:11
Before it come to the Council for decision. OK, perfect. Thank you so much. 01:24:12
Brian, I believe you are up with 3.6 for the mountain bike park location. 01:24:16
Discussion. 01:24:22
Real quick. 01:24:24
Why the why the push of all the way fields just not ready. Oh that is the one we were just talking about with the notice of the 01:24:25
hearing that went to the Planning Commission and so we're gonna have it go to the Planning Commission and then it'll go to the 01:24:30
council. OK the amendments at the request of the developer, but the. 01:24:35
The development agreement contains administrative and legislative. 01:24:41
I think aspects, so it requires a public hearing and it's I just think the preferred way to do it is. 01:24:45
Allow the hearing to occur at the Planning Commission where it really needs to before. 01:24:51
It comes to the council. If it comes to the council first, then they're. 01:24:55
Or questions of. 01:24:58
You know, did we predetermine what would occur? 01:24:59
In that hearing and how the Planning Commission would make its recommendation. 01:25:01
Any other questions on that one? 01:25:07
OK. Go ahead, Brian. 01:25:10
OK, Good evening, Brian Vaudrey, Vineyard Parks and Rec Director. 01:25:12
I wanted to show you the central corridor plan, just briefly. 01:25:16
To propose potential amendment. 01:25:21
Of the location of the dirt pump track. 01:25:24
So on the. 01:25:27
Senator Corridor plan has. 01:25:28
The Dirt Pump track across the street from Gammon Park. 01:25:30
I'm proposing that we move it. 01:25:36
To the City Hall. 01:25:39
Location. 01:25:40
For three reasons in particular. 01:25:43
The first reason it would be. 01:25:45
Super close to parking. 01:25:48
Whereas over here. 01:25:50
You have to cross a street. 01:25:51
That is a busy center St. 01:25:54
This would also. 01:25:58
Be already Vineyard city owned land. 01:26:00
Whereas this current portion is not. 01:26:04
And then at the City Hall, it would also allow us to have a stronger application for. 01:26:07
Our skate park. 01:26:14
Grant. 01:26:16
Application that we'll be putting out in January. 01:26:17
And so I just wanted to. 01:26:21
See if. 01:26:25
There's any concerns with us? 01:26:26
Pursuing that potential option. 01:26:29
Who owns the wind property that was out? 01:26:31
Oh yeah, sorry, let me show you the. 01:26:34
Picture. 01:26:36
I don't know what you call that. OK, so essentially this is what is being. 01:26:37
Proposed. 01:26:41
The green area is where the. 01:26:42
Potential skate park would go. 01:26:45
The red area. 01:26:48
Would be a potential asphalt or modular pump track. 01:26:49
And then the yellow area would. 01:26:54
Be the potential area for the. 01:26:57
Dirt pump track and potential jump lines and skill area. 01:26:59
OK. Because we had this discussion with the central corridor plan, I think it would be really helpful to send out a message to 01:27:04
that area that had it before and let them know that due to the additional parking that would be required for that area, this is 01:27:11
the new location. So that when this comes back or that change occurs that the. 01:27:17
They can make comment. 01:27:23
Great. 01:27:25
Mayor, if I can just add one thing too, and I don't know if you touched on this or not, but. 01:27:27
Yes. So you did mention like Center St. being really busy, but having a bathroom and so like having so the kids don't have to run 01:27:31
across a busy Rd. just to use a bathroom and then come back across again. So yeah, that would be really good to add. 01:27:37
OK. 01:27:44
How in terms of space, how does this? 01:27:47
Space in terms of size. 01:27:50
Compare with the. 01:27:52
The current central quarter plan. 01:27:54
This is much bigger. 01:27:57
So, um. 01:27:59
I guess as far as size wise. 01:28:02
I'm sorry, I don't know the number completely off the top of my head. I could measure it in like a minute and get back to you. 01:28:05
OK. But it's, but this is, yeah, this is much bigger. 01:28:11
OK. So I would also expect that. 01:28:15
Bigger means more expensive. 01:28:17
We may not have those numbers. 01:28:21
Yes. So in terms of a grant application, we're now talking about trying to get something. 01:28:23
More. 01:28:28
Yes, so. 01:28:29
With the central corridor, planet just had this little smaller area. 01:28:31
The initial plan was to actually have it go up further. 01:28:35
Just pending the neighbors approval. 01:28:40
Of being fine with that. So essentially if we did that option, neighbors were fine with it, it'd be about the same size there as 01:28:42
it would be. 01:28:46
Coming here to the City Hall. 01:28:49
OK, Do you mind if we? 01:28:53
Go through a few of your items. 01:28:56
There's no other questions on this one. 01:28:58
For comments. 01:29:02
How did flagship? 01:29:09
Like we had the pump track park and that used to be. 01:29:12
Delineated wetlands. How is it not anymore? 01:29:15
On the side where the contract was. 01:29:18
I see value. 01:29:22
Now partial. 01:29:24
Sorry, so no seem to know about the works director. 01:29:25
In regards to the what answers hasn't officially been dealing with excuse me on that. So we we went through environmental wetlands 01:29:28
study on that and we were able to determine where the what they call the merchant wetlands vegetation is in each of the areas so 01:29:36
and the area behind Grove Park. 01:29:43
We've identified the areas there. 01:29:51
And also what they call the fish hook area, which is right to kind of. 01:29:53
South of Gammon Park and Bio City Hall. 01:29:57
The two areas there. 01:30:00
And then based on the. 01:30:03
Within survey that we had conducted. 01:30:05
And the report that we have ready for the United States Army Corps of Engineers. 01:30:08
That. 01:30:13
Our consultants has. 01:30:14
Made a. 01:30:16
Determination that the. 01:30:18
Area. That's the fish hook area. 01:30:19
The the vegetation there is. 01:30:23
Considered non jurisdictional. 01:30:25
Would be considered non jurisdictional. 01:30:27
Based on federal laws. 01:30:29
Yeah, the current fellow. 01:30:32
Federal laws. 01:30:34
On that, since it doesn't touch but it doesn't navigate, does not navigate navigable what type of bodies of water and such. 01:30:36
And we will. We actually have a. 01:30:42
Excuse me application array to submit to the core engineers now that. 01:30:49
The federal government should be open pretty soon. 01:30:52
We'll be able to move forward on that and then the area on Grove. 01:30:54
Park we have. We're going to be scheduling a sit down meeting with the Corps of Engineers to discuss. 01:30:58
The some prior impacts. 01:31:05
That was done on that area. 01:31:08
For the wetlands and have a discussion with them to. 01:31:11
Have a discussion with them to determine whether or not that would be considered, though that area would still have to be 01:31:16
mitigated or not. 01:31:19
And if and then apply for. 01:31:22
The parameter release of jurisdictional wetlands from the core engineers. 01:31:25
On that 1. So it's a process. 01:31:30
It's a process to go through. 01:31:32
The area behind Gamut Park. 01:31:35
All right, Excuse me. Grove Park. 01:31:37
Probably a longer process than the area. That's the fish oak area. 01:31:39
That would be a smoother, faster process and which also makes why the relocation makes more sense. 01:31:43
Because it's a, you know it's. 01:31:49
Something that could be. 01:31:51
In the more foreseeable future. 01:31:53
Does that answer your question? 01:31:56
Yeah. I mean, I was a kid when those were contracts were. 01:31:58
Negotiated, but I know the. 01:32:02
Lynn Holdaway, Robin Hold, Robbins. 01:32:04
You know there's 5 or 6 different families that are there. 01:32:08
That turned over those properties. 01:32:12
Knowing or thinking that being told by the state and city that those would be. 01:32:14
Non developable or usable wetlands. 01:32:19
And then? 01:32:23
When the developer was done with them, it's my understanding that they were turned over to the city, right? That's how we became 01:32:24
the area. The area. Grove Park has not yet been turned over the city. That's part of the process to ensure that no, not talking 01:32:29
about Grove Park. I'm talking about. 01:32:33
The wetlands. 01:32:38
He's talking. I think you guys are saying the same thing, Jake. He's saying it's the. 01:32:39
Open space behind Grove Park so it's the area as a point of order for this particular item. I think it would be great if you guys 01:32:44
if you guys want to look at the contracts for the Army Corps and talk about the wetlands and the delineation of that space or 01:32:49
have. 01:32:55
Kind of further conversation about the skate parks. 01:33:01
The skate park, I think that. 01:33:04
You guys could do that, maybe offline, I will say that delineation. 01:33:05
If I'm echoing what you're saying happens with the Army Corps. 01:33:11
And they determine whether something is uplands or. 01:33:14
Wetlands. 01:33:17
Correct. And then if there's mitigation that's done. 01:33:18
Wetlands. Never. 01:33:22
Are reduced, they are only replaced. 01:33:23
And so I think. 01:33:26
You could go and look at those agreements. 01:33:28
To see so if he wanted to say where did those wetlands go or how if they were mitigated? 01:33:30
Where did they go? 01:33:35
And how were they replaced? I bet you could do that. And if you want to say how were they delineated, you could look back through 01:33:36
the time frame. But for purposes of tonight, we're going to stay on this topic. 01:33:41
And we are going to move on to another item, but I just want to make sure it's on the record. 01:33:47
That entire foshark South of Gamma Park, up and around we as a city went. 01:33:52
And met with the Army Corps of Engineer to ensure that those are no longer wetlands. 01:33:57
We have not. I didn't say that we have. We have an application. We have an application, We have an application to submit to the 01:34:02
core of engineers and. 01:34:05
Again, now that the federal government should be opened, we should be able to proceed with that. 01:34:10
Thank you. And that also means that if the Army Corps comes back and says, yeah, this is all wetlands, then those plans. 01:34:14
Kind of go away cuz they're white ones. Not necessarily there's areas where we would have they would identify what areas are 01:34:21
considered what lands and then of course we have buffer areas so we would ensure that we're still protecting what would be 01:34:26
considered what lands and. 01:34:30
The current plans that Brian has put together. 01:34:35
Does does it does that as well, so. 01:34:38
Technically he's. 01:34:41
He's playing a safe route. 01:34:42
And making sure that regardless what the determination is. 01:34:45
That there. 01:34:48
He's he's not having to redo his process. 01:34:49
Awesome. 01:34:52
All right, Brian, can you stay here for a second so we can? 01:34:53
Close out a few. 01:34:57
Few of your items. 01:34:58
You had some appointments that you wanted. 01:35:00
To discuss. 01:35:02
Yes. So on the Arch Commission. 01:35:03
We have Jerem Sidwell, who is our current Arch Commission Chair. 01:35:06
And then Elizabeth Shelley, who is a former arch Commission chair. 01:35:11
And just proposed to. 01:35:17
Have them serve a second term. 01:35:19
We just are in need of staggering. 01:35:22
Are members of Arch. They are all. 01:35:25
Like on the same. 01:35:29
Time frame so. 01:35:30
Hold that thought, just for one second. 01:35:32
Cash and Morgan, would you mind just because we're on the appointments, if you could just introduce Neil Peterson and Doug. 01:35:35
Rodnick. 01:35:41
To I'm going to do them all at the same time. Yeah, no problem. And unfortunately Anthony's out for for a little bit, so I think 01:35:43
he had those appointments. There's Doug Radnich. 01:35:47
And. 01:35:53
I'm not I'm. 01:35:54
I I'm not familiar with it, I didn't manage the process for Miss Neil. 01:35:55
What's the name of that? Yeah, Neil Peterson, Neil Peterson and Neil Peterson. He served on a few of our committees and task 01:36:00
forces already. But if you if you guys don't have anything about that tonight, I can wait until December 10th for that. 01:36:06
Because I'd like them introduced. 01:36:13
I thought they were. 01:36:16
Yeah, we didn't know. So would you like them to? So if it's next meeting, would you like them at the at the meeting then? 01:36:17
You guys can introduce the process of how you guys or talk to them and interview them next time. Awesome. Sorry Anthony is not 01:36:23
here but happy he's with his family. 01:36:29
All right, can I get a motion from the council to approve a? 01:36:34
Jeremiah said well and Liz Shelley to serve a second term. 01:36:39
So moved. 01:36:43
Thank you, Marty. Can I get a second? 01:36:44
2nd. 01:36:47
Second by Brett. All in favor. 01:36:47
Aye, aye. 01:36:49
Any opposed? 01:36:50
All right. 01:36:52
Stay here still. 01:36:54
7.37.4 and 7.10 of the consent items, you said there were things on them that needed to be discussed that were not actually added. 01:36:56
Before the Council saw them and they were for discussion tonight. 01:37:05
I'm going to pull those off of the consent agenda and allow you to discuss them really quick. 01:37:09
Great. Thank you. 01:37:14
So the first one is regarding this 7.1. 01:37:15
Zero option. 01:37:21
This is pertaining to the Arch grant. 01:37:22
Policy and procedure update. 01:37:25
There's just a minor language change that is just shown up here in yellow. 01:37:28
So just instead of it saying. 01:37:34
In agreement, it specifies. 01:37:36
A written agreement and this is 710 guys. 01:37:38
7.10. 01:37:41
Correct. OK. 01:37:42
OK. That's the only change with that one. 01:37:45
This next one is for. 01:37:51
The. 01:37:53
Did anybody have any questions on 7.10? 01:37:54
With that. 01:37:57
Change. 01:37:58
OK, go to the next one. 01:38:01
Oh, go ahead. 01:38:03
I guess I would act like. 01:38:05
How long term are these changes? Because I know there's an appetite to look into and. 01:38:07
Adjust Arch Commission. 01:38:11
It's like, what? What are we agreeing to? That would be extremely long term tonight. 01:38:14
So as far as the code, well, and you always have the ability to change it. Yeah, OK. 01:38:18
So if you if you go through it, this is just a technical change. The short answer on this one is it. 01:38:24
But just in order the arch committee. 01:38:29
Issues grants and so this relates to. 01:38:31
The grants, they can issue, the criteria they would apply, right, How we would memorialize the agreement with the grant recipient. 01:38:34
And then certain kinds of things that are eligible and ineligible. 01:38:41
Have received those grants. 01:38:45
Yeah, that's good. 01:38:47
OK, next one. 01:38:49
OK with the pavilion and field reservation? 01:38:50
Code. I'm sorry, I don't remember what number specifically that was, If that was 77.33. OK, thank you. 01:38:54
So in yellow are just a few. 01:39:02
Updates that occurred since. 01:39:05
The packet was published. 01:39:08
So it's really just a lot of. 01:39:10
Just language changes I guess. 01:39:14
Let's see. So like for example 1 was. 01:39:18
Identifying what long term basis means for. 01:39:22
Reservation. 01:39:26
So we just. 01:39:28
Change that to be. 01:39:29
Exceeding 24 hours. 01:39:31
And then just a few changes regarding the fees and refunds. 01:39:36
Umm. 01:39:41
You're welcome to read through that. 01:39:44
One of which was the commercial use of parks. Just ensuring that if there's. 01:39:53
Businesses wanting to use parks. 01:39:59
Profit or business purposes? 01:40:02
We just ensure that we have. 01:40:05
A process in place for that to get insurance documents and a contract written up and. 01:40:07
A fee paid. 01:40:12
And that's to remove liability from the city. 01:40:16
So and then the bottom half is just pertaining to. 01:40:20
Than field reservations. So these changes are essentially the same as the top half. 01:40:24
That was just pertaining to pavilion reservations. Any questions on 7.3? 01:40:29
Any further clarity needed on it? 01:40:33
OK, 7.4. 01:40:36
OK. The last one is pertaining to concessions. 01:40:38
Would it help you, Brian, if I talked through this change or did you want to? 01:40:46
Take it on. Yeah, there's an addition to the concessions code that. 01:40:50
Was. 01:40:53
Requested in part by code enforcement, in part by the concessionaire, and then. 01:40:55
In part by Pam, as she's dealt with some election questions this last election cycle. What ended up occurring? We have a 01:41:00
concessionaire that pays. 01:41:05
To operate space in the park and they sell. 01:41:09
Ice cream, sodas, candies, those kinds of things. And we had. 01:41:13
Some. 01:41:17
People during the campaign season that were. 01:41:18
Providing free treats and snacks that were of the same variety sold by the concessionaire. And so the concessionaire complained to 01:41:21
the city saying. 01:41:25
I'm paying to rent the space. These are the things I'm selling and folks are coming and giving it away for free. 01:41:29
We didn't feel it appropriate to enforce or to make a change in the ordinance mid election cycle. 01:41:35
It just becomes too difficult where you have. 01:41:41
Competing campaigns and you want to be fair to all sides. 01:41:44
But we did want to make a change. 01:41:47
Going forward, so that that's known by everybody. 01:41:50
And the reason for the change again is we have a concessionaire and a revenue stream to the city that comes from it. 01:41:53
Pays to operate a business in that space. 01:42:01
In that space and we didn't want to allow. 01:42:03
Behavior in the parks that would. 01:42:06
Compete with. 01:42:08
That right to operate the business in that same area. 01:42:10
All right. 01:42:14
If there are no. 01:42:15
Questions on that that? 01:42:16
Felt really clear. Why don't we go ahead and approve 7.37.4? 01:42:18
7.5 which goes with it in seven point. 01:42:23
Is that is that approving those or moving them because there was additional change? 01:42:31
Nope, they're they're already. 01:42:35
Moved, so I pulled them. 01:42:37
So we just need to approve them. 01:42:39
So I just want a clarification. 01:42:41
On the concessions, are you saying that? 01:42:43
Because I guess I'm not. 01:42:47
It's not reading easy for me. Are you saying that people are not allowed to hand out free items if. 01:42:48
At all or free items that are sold by those vendors. 01:42:54
The way our process works with the concessionaire is they get a menu approved by the city. 01:42:58
Of the things that they. 01:43:03
Can sell and if somebody were to come to the park and. 01:43:05
Either give away or try to sell. 01:43:09
The same items that the concessionaire sells. 01:43:12
Then we'd be able to. 01:43:14
Remove them or stop them from selling that item. 01:43:16
At the park. 01:43:19
And if we? 01:43:24
Don't pass this. 01:43:24
If because when you talk about selling other items. 01:43:26
I mean, you already have to have a permit to sell at the park. 01:43:29
So if we didn't pass this, you could already. 01:43:33
If someone's selling it, you could already stop them, correct? Correct. 01:43:35
But now you're just basically saying you can't give it away for free. 01:43:38
Which feels UN American the same items. 01:43:45
You can give away something else. 01:43:48
No, I I get it. 01:43:50
I think it's because one is paying a fee to do it and then we're allowing somebody else to come in and we're not charging them a 01:43:51
fee. 01:43:54
Yeah, there there are times that. 01:43:59
Cities make decisions that feel a little bit more like a private landlord than they do. 01:44:01
A government entity. 01:44:08
And one is when you make the choice to. 01:44:09
Lease some of your park space to a business and give that business certain. 01:44:12
Exclusive rights to operate in that space, and that's really what this is about. 01:44:18
You could pivot and not. 01:44:23
Rent that space and. 01:44:25
Not run it in that way. 01:44:27
If you. 01:44:29
Didn't want to receive that revenue stream. 01:44:29
But I. 01:44:32
Think you're going to have a hard time holding on to the business if you allow competing behaviors? 01:44:32
That erode their bottom line. 01:44:37
Well, and it's not very common that someone's going to be handing out free stuff. 01:44:39
Yeah, it seems very few and far between. 01:44:45
I'm with Marty on that one. 01:44:50
OK. 01:44:52
I'm comfortable with that. I'll make a motion. 01:44:56
To approve. 01:44:59
7.1. 01:45:02
7.3.37.4 and 7.10. 01:45:03
And seven point. 01:45:08
5 and 7.5. 01:45:08
You have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:45:11
Second Second by Sarah. 01:45:13
I'm going to do this by roll call Jake. 01:45:16
No, Brett. 01:45:18
Aye, aye, Marty. Hi, Sarah. 01:45:21
Aye, all right. 01:45:25
Thank you. 01:45:27
I think the. 01:45:28
Took care of all of your items. Yes, yes. OK. 01:45:29
Can I get a raise of hand of who would like to speak in public comment? 01:45:33
For things that are not currently on the Agenda 123. 01:45:38
Anybody else? 01:45:42
All right, Tony, can you put? 01:45:44
Minutes on the clock for each. Please come state your name at the podium and share with us. 01:45:46
Your comments. 01:45:52
Yep. 01:45:59
Good evening Daria Evans, Vineyard resident. 01:46:04
Thank you for this opportunity to speak tonight. 01:46:08
I'd like to thank the city for honoring Don Overson. 01:46:12
For his dedicated service to Vineyard City and residents. 01:46:16
I enjoyed the dedicatory ceremony and seeing the inside of the water tank that was very. 01:46:20
Cool. Very interesting. 01:46:25
And I'm just wondering when the tank will be operational. 01:46:27
I also would like to thank Nassim for his answering my many water questions. I had some more and he answered them this last week. 01:46:32
So thank you Nasim. 01:46:36
Now I have my questions. 01:46:42
I am wondering when the crosswalks will be completed on Main Street. 01:46:44
And also Vineyard Loop Rd. 01:46:48
I have a question about. 01:46:52
Is if there is an ordinance restricting overnight parking on public streets from November to March? 01:46:54
And if so, what will happen with those vehicles on the Vineyard Loop Rd. 01:47:01
Will the roads still be plowed? 01:47:06
And then I have one question. 01:47:09
Or concern. 01:47:11
Regarding item 6.3 on the work session. 01:47:13
Nassim said that the Army Corps of Engineers has not released that designation of wetlands. 01:47:20
At this property here. 01:47:27
At Planning Commission. 01:47:29
It was said that the survey study was done in June. 01:47:31
And I believe that the City Council should not move ahead. 01:47:34
Until the Corps of Engineers gives the approval. 01:47:39
Thank you very much. 01:47:42
Tim Blackburn, Vineyard resident. 01:47:58
I thought it was going to be discussed tonight 3.5. 01:48:01
A little bit, but since it wasn't. 01:48:03
I'll take just a moment and. 01:48:05
Talk about a concern we have. I'm speaking on behalf of the Vineyard Heritage Foundation. 01:48:06
And a couple of years ago, the mayor. 01:48:12
And I and half dozen other people went with the developers through that area. We walked through all the. 01:48:15
Thorny areas of of that of the property up near. 01:48:21
The eastern portion of that plat of ground, right behind the Pioneer home. 01:48:26
Where there are still. 01:48:31
And there's an old barn and there's silos and all that kind of thing. And I had understood that maybe the developer was going to 01:48:34
reverse the order in which they were going to have the city take. 01:48:39
Ownership or. 01:48:44
In interest in that property. 01:48:46
And I just want to remind the city that at that time a couple of years ago. 01:48:48
In talking with gold barrel and and other. 01:48:54
Interested people that was going to become a Heritage Park. 01:48:56
Of some kind. 01:49:00
We were going to take the silos and and redo some of them. We were going to. 01:49:02
Take the old barn and. 01:49:07
Maybe redo it. We were going to turn some of it into a venue where we could use them for weddings and other events in the city. 01:49:09
And I'm just hopeful that as that sequence of turning that ownership over to the city or. 01:49:16
Or who's going to be developing? 01:49:22
That it isn't just bulldozed down. 01:49:24
So that it can be developed. 01:49:27
That we truly do retain that parcel of land. 01:49:28
Into some kind of heritage celebration, because there aren't many of those locations in Vineyard left. 01:49:32
And right now we have that prize in our hands, so let's not destroy it. 01:49:39
Let's keep it. 01:49:44
Let's build upon it and turn it into something that we can all be proud of. 01:49:45
Thank you so much. 01:49:49
Thanks, Tim. 01:49:50
Crystal, did you have something? 01:49:52
Do you mind if I speak to that first? 01:49:54
No, we're gonna finish for school. I think you are last. 01:49:56
Well, I just wanted to say that I. 01:50:03
The voter base that elected the new. 01:50:06
Mayor and council are not happy about the What is it? 01:50:08
I think you're 10 cent items 7.7. 01:50:13
And 7.8. 01:50:17
And I hope that you will do the ethical thing and not try to jam through. 01:50:19
Any of your agendas? 01:50:23
OK, Thank you. As we close, I'm going to turn a few things. I'm. 01:50:26
We're going to answer a few questions. 01:50:31
I'm going to close. 01:50:33
Comment. 01:50:35
Really quick, I believe the water tank completion is going to is pegged to be. 01:50:37
Entirely completed in the next month. 01:50:42
Is that right, Nasim? OK. 01:50:44
Vineyard Loop Rd. Crosswalks. 01:50:46
I can't speak to the timeline on that. 01:50:49
Did you want to come to a microphone? 01:50:52
Thanks, Chris. 01:50:55
OK. Thanks for being here. 01:50:59
We're going to excuse Marty. She has streets and stormwater. 01:51:01
So you may have noticed now we're doing the the cross, the crossings for the Refuge Islands and some of the other. 01:51:09
Pedestrian crossings. 01:51:15
As soon as those crossings are done. 01:51:17
The the ADA Paths report today. 01:51:19
They'll start on the islands here soon. 01:51:22
As soon as those islands are done. 01:51:24
The strippers will be in here to kind of. 01:51:26
Red delineate some of those lanes there around those islands. 01:51:29
And they'll also hit the crosswalks before then. 01:51:34
If it's a concern. 01:51:36
That we want to get them out here sooner. 01:51:38
I'm happy to have them come out and do that. 01:51:40
We were just hoping to kind of get them all here, for one. 01:51:44
Big striping event so. 01:51:47
OK. Thank you. 01:51:49
We can. 01:51:52
Have you guys work on that and find out the best opportunity for us? Marty, did you have something to add? Yeah, I wanted to know. 01:51:53
There was an addition on the crosswalks. 01:52:00
We added another crosswalk on. 01:52:02
Oh, now I'm going to free. Is it Vineyard loop Rd. and. 01:52:06
170 N. 01:52:11
It's right by the Willows. 01:52:12
Clubhouse, I think it's worth noting. 01:52:14
That it was. 01:52:17
A really cool. 01:52:20
Conversation where flagship. 01:52:21
Offered to pay for the whole project. 01:52:23
Up to was it 18,000 or 15,000? 01:52:26
So I think that that's. 01:52:30
Really exciting for those communities that cross. 01:52:31
Over to that clubhouse all summer long. Yeah. Thank you so much, Marty, for negotiating that and putting that through. 01:52:34
I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. We'll look forward. Maybe you guys can put a timeline together and we can. 01:52:40
Kind of post it and. 01:52:44
Recap it next. I mean I would anticipate within the next 30 days the project is going to be complete. 01:52:46
So it would be within the next 30 days. That's wonderful. Thank you. 01:52:50
Daria, we do have a winter ordinance that talks about parking on those roads and what it usually entails is when it snows, they 01:52:56
move and then when they come back when it's. 01:53:01
Cleared, the cars can return to where they are allowed to park. 01:53:06
We could have that sent to you and we could post it. Generally we post it every time winter starts coming, so on social media. So 01:53:10
you'll see that come up, but we can get it too earlier. 01:53:15
Let's see as far as Tim Tim, that park remains. 01:53:21
I don't believe that was going to change on timeline. 01:53:25
Those agreements are still there. Go ahead Morgan, you can add to it. I don't know what they're requesting. So so they their, 01:53:28
their request now is. 01:53:32
To essentially flip the parks. 01:53:36
So instead of doing. 01:53:39
The lakeside park. 01:53:41
1st. 01:53:43
They they want to do that they what we call the gateway or the. 01:53:45
The wet. 01:53:48
The East park first. 01:53:50
Which is the heritage, yeah. And so and. 01:53:51
They're they're required to install baseline improvements. And so this is something we talked with the council a few years ago. 01:53:55
And so it would, it would be up to the City Council. 01:53:59
So those would be costs above what the what what the developers required to put in. They're required to put in baseline 01:54:03
improvements, which would be essentially grasp playground equipment. 01:54:08
Restrooms. 01:54:15
So they're supposed to put in a minimum kind of those minimum requirements and then if the city wants anything in addition. 01:54:17
We would do that and so. 01:54:22
That's one of those things that the city would like to budget to get, like to see if. 01:54:24
From a engineering structural assessment standpoint. 01:54:29
If they'll silos are good if you want to keep someone I mean that that'd be worthy of like a design charrette to. 01:54:33
To to to kick that back up, because if. 01:54:40
If the approval occurs as. 01:54:43
The applicant is requesting it would push that park at the front more of the front end and that does cut down some of the timeline 01:54:46
that we'd be able to to look at because. 01:54:51
So because right now it's towards the end and so it provides us a lot of time. 01:54:56
We move it up. 01:55:00
Then we need to make some decisions quickly. It's going to be fairly expensive to. So we just got anticipate that so it looks 01:55:01
like. 01:55:04
The timeline switches it closer. 01:55:08
And then? 01:55:11
Obviously comes into a budget conversation. 01:55:12
Yeah. So that will come forward in the future. 01:55:14
And then? 01:55:17
Crystal, I'm glad that you mentioned 7.8. 01:55:18
7:00 I'm going to confirm those numbers as I say them out loud. 01:55:21
Yep, 7.7 and 7.8. 01:55:26
We were able to have some conversations with our. 01:55:28
Newly elected officials. 01:55:32
And they talked about. 01:55:34
Potentially bringing forward some ideas to see if those work. 01:55:35
I recommended to the council that we allow them to bring those forward and talk in the next couple of weeks and show what we've 01:55:39
got and so my recommendation is that we move. 01:55:44
Those to our December 10th meeting to see. 01:55:48
How we can come together on that? But thank you for your comment. 01:55:51
Yep, there's there's always different opportunities. 01:55:55
So hopefully we can come together as a, as a. 01:55:59
As group. 01:56:01
All right, with that in mind. 01:56:02
Let's Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, Jake, you had something to add to the. 01:56:05
The park. I'm glad that Tim came tonight. A lot of people don't know. 01:56:08
The original name of Sleepy Ridge. 01:56:12
Is brought to us by. 01:56:16
The Timpanogos people. 01:56:18
The Sleepy Ridge is along. 01:56:21
It goes all the way throughout Vineyard, right? 01:56:23
Don't want to get emotional but. 01:56:26
Before The Pioneers got here. 01:56:29
We didn't have Deer Creek, we didn't have Strawberry and we didn't have Jordanelle. 01:56:33
And so every spring. 01:56:38
The entire. 01:56:43
Valley. 01:56:44
In about a three or four week period would flood. 01:56:45
And Vineyard would be a point of order. 01:56:49
Talking about history. 01:56:53
I know. 01:56:54
But you can. 01:56:55
Talk about that. 01:56:56
Another time. 01:56:57
We're talking about what Tim just said. 01:56:59
Talking about it, I think that's awesome. 01:57:01
And I think that should happen. Absolutely. OK, Jake, do you have a point? Yeah, Yeah, I have a point to this. 01:57:04
Because of that. 01:57:10
The specific location of where the indigenous people. 01:57:12
And the early holdaway families. 01:57:16
Met for a truce was on the sleepy Ridge right on right where the. 01:57:18
Leroy Family. 01:57:23
Farm is. 01:57:24
3. 01:57:26
Profits of the LDS church and 9 apostles lived in that location and so I love that Tim is concerned about the history there. 01:57:27
And about that Heritage Park because it's not only the Mormon settlers, but also the indigenous of the Timpanogos tribe. 01:57:37
Of what? Of what happened and occurred at that location. So I just want to make sure that. 01:57:46
Tim, I will go. 01:57:51
I've spoken with the mayor elect and the council and I know I'm going to be playing a major role. 01:57:52
In that history, and I'll go and meet with them before. 01:57:57
Next meeting, I know the next council will be the one that. 01:58:01
Is financing and thinking and. 01:58:04
Building that through so I just want to make sure. 01:58:06
I understand the history. 01:58:08
And the importance of it. 01:58:12
Go ahead, Sarah. 01:58:15
So. 01:58:16
As far as? 01:58:18
7.7. 01:58:19
And the social media outrage? 01:58:22
I just wanted to point out. 01:58:25
To all of. 01:58:27
The people who are opposing it. 01:58:28
That I have a budget request from Sullivan Love a year and a half ago. 01:58:31
Requesting a new vac truck. 01:58:35
What is a TV van? 01:58:37
The TV vans are used for. 01:58:42
Sending a video camera into those lines prior to using the back truck. So you send the video camera in. 01:58:45
You inspect the line with that. 01:58:52
From the surface. 01:58:55
You determine where the problems are. 01:58:56
And then you put your vac truck in and take care of it. 01:58:58
OK. So did we purchase that? 01:59:01
OK, so he has a request to purchase a new vac truck. 01:59:04
And a TV van. And that was a year and a half ago. 01:59:07
And we have since put money aside in the budget to be able to do that. Is that correct? 01:59:10
So for the last year and a half. 01:59:15
We've been setting aside money to be able to afford that. 01:59:17
So so when you get information. 01:59:20
Online and you say that we're going to spend $700,000. That's incorrect. 01:59:23
The amount here on fiscal impact shows 643. 01:59:28
643,000 with A170150 to 170. 01:59:31
$1000 credit for the existing. 01:59:37
Equipment that would be turned back in. 01:59:40
So the actual amount was. 01:59:42
Closer to what was it for? 01:59:44
475. 01:59:47
So I think it's really important that we get our facts straight, especially if we're spreading them. 01:59:48
Through the community. 01:59:53
To make sure that Sullivan was the one that asked for this a year and a half ago. 01:59:54
And the city supported that and put the money aside. 01:59:58
And so. 02:00:01
So when we spread information, let's sure that make sure that we have all our facts correct. Sarah you. 02:00:02
Sullivan started with. 02:00:08
Telling me that he was the one that requested it. 02:00:09
Due to COVID funds. 02:00:12
There were massive amount of buildings that. 02:00:13
Bought vac trucks. 02:00:15
The hourly rate to rent one. 02:00:17
And the availability has changed dramatically in the last year and a half, so for him to come forward. 02:00:19
And adjust his assessment. 02:00:25
Is awesome. 02:00:27
So we knew that he didn't, he didn't not share that with us because we are discussing 700,000, okay, he was off 100,000. 02:00:29
No, the actual amounts more like 475. That's a big difference. 02:00:37
Because we are discussing. 02:00:42
7.7. 02:00:45
I know I recommended it to be continued for further discussion, but maybe we could just come and talk about some of the facts. 02:00:47
Of the truck. 02:00:56
It seems like you guys want to review them. 02:01:00
I would just recognize the mayor and say thank you for working with Zach and and. 02:01:03
Having a conversation, you know he. 02:01:07
Obviously is the executive. He'll have an approach. He works with VAC trucks. 02:01:10
All the time like I spent an hour learning. I don't even know. 02:01:14
A lot about vac trucks, but about the rental of how much and and the availability of them and then also being on with. 02:01:18
TTSD today. 02:01:24
For like an hour and understanding that contract, it was like. 02:01:26
Wow yeah, this is a no brainer so. 02:01:28
I just appreciate the conversation and delaying it a couple of weeks. 02:01:32
Yeah, OK. 02:01:36
Thank you. 02:01:38
For your comments. 02:01:39
Did we want to talk about it now? Does the Council want to continue it? 02:01:42
OK, how about we continue it? 02:01:46
We sit down and then next time we can bring these discussions forward and we can talk about the contract with TSSD. 02:01:48
We can talk about. 02:01:56
The ability or. 02:01:57
Discussion about what it costs to rent it. 02:01:59
We can talk about our usage and our service agreements. 02:02:02
OK, so I'm going to ask that we just put. 02:02:05
Put 7.7 and 7.8 and we continue those. 02:02:07
Hold for a second while I. 02:02:12
Just say, can we approve? 02:02:14
7.1. 02:02:16
7.2. 02:02:18
Seven point. 02:02:20
Six and seven point. 02:02:21
9 and 7.11. 02:02:24
And then we'll continue 7.7 and 7.8. 02:02:27
I'd like to pull off 7.6. 02:02:32
7.6 Can we can we go ahead and talk about 7.6? 02:02:34
Yeah. All right. 02:02:41
Right, go ahead and start the the the the question I had and this is again, as much I know, I know we've I've already had a 02:02:42
conversation about this, but I want to make sure everybody. 02:02:47
Hears it. 02:02:53
In the work session on. 02:02:55
On that. 02:02:59
I had asked for an evaluation of a breakpoint for Council approval. 02:03:03
In. 02:03:07
I'm going to point Eric. 02:03:10
If you could walk us through the the research and evaluation that you did. 02:03:14
And the because when I was reviewing the updated policy that's coming in here. 02:03:19
That particular piece wasn't in there, and it was. 02:03:24
A bit frustrating. 02:03:26
But then we had a conversation and I want to make sure everybody hears. 02:03:29
The research that staff have done. 02:03:33
And why that one particular piece wasn't in there? 02:03:36
From my recollection, there was there was 2 requests. 1 was that we would adjust the international travel that gets approved by 02:03:42
the City Council to be scrutinized. 02:03:46
And the other was that we looked at. 02:03:50
Thresholds that we could utilize. 02:03:52
On a dollar. 02:03:55
Level rather than just. 02:03:57
Where the location was. 02:03:59
And so we. 02:04:01
Did add one that was for outside Utah County that cost more than $4000. 02:04:02
When we looked around Utah cities, there was no other Utah cities that use a dollar threshold. 02:04:07
We did a nationwide search. 02:04:13
And there was a couple cities in Texas that did have a dollar amount. 02:04:15
So we utilized one of those. 02:04:18
The $4000 one. 02:04:22
Any travel that would that would go above that. 02:04:25
Certainly merits. 02:04:28
Getting additional scrutiny? 02:04:29
And so we've added a. 02:04:31
A requirement for that to be. 02:04:33
I would just let. 02:04:36
Council know that. 02:04:37
That looking over the last couple of years, the travel. 02:04:38
Has not been over that $4000 amount. 02:04:43
And so anything that would go above that would definitely be something that raises a flag and needs to be looked over and 02:04:47
carefully considered. 02:04:51
In addition to just the budgeting of those in the 1st place at the beginning of the year. 02:04:56
OK. Thank you. 02:05:00
Any other comments or? 02:05:02
Is there, you mentioned that nothing in the last couple of years has gone up that high? 02:05:03
Do we know what the highest thing was? What was that? 02:05:09
Dollar amount, I think the highest dollar amount was actually for City Council to attend. 02:05:13
Our Saint George. 02:05:20
Event and that I think the total. 02:05:22
Total dollar amount on that was about 2800. 02:05:24
OK. 02:05:28
OK. Well, thank you. 02:05:31
With that, does everybody feel comfortable approving everything and continuing everything, remaining and continuing 7.7 and 7.8? 02:05:34
I second. 02:05:43
Or do I make a motion? Yeah, Jake, we'll get a motion for you to do that. And I'm just going to name the numbers really quick, 02:05:44
7.17.27.6. 02:05:48
7.9 and 7. 02:05:52
.11 to be to be approved and 7.7 and 7.8 to be continued. I make that motion. 02:05:54
OK, can I get a second Second. 02:06:01
Thank you. 02:06:03
Brett for a second. 02:06:05
And I'll do it by roll call, Jake. 02:06:07
I Marty's excused. 02:06:11
Hi, excellent. 02:06:13
OK. Eric, you had a report. 02:06:15
Did you get 7.11? 02:06:18
That's on the next page I did. I called it 7.11. 02:06:20
Sorry. 02:06:24
I missed that. OK, yeah, just a just a quick we've, we've got a nice report for the council to review. 02:06:24
Be sure to take a look at that, there's tons of cool information about what's happened over the last month. 02:06:30
But just a couple highlights. 02:06:35
From recreation, there were 591 registrants to the youth. 02:06:38
Junior Jazz Basketball League. 02:06:41
Huge, huge numbers. It's fun to see that many kids coming out for those. 02:06:44
We hosted our buapalooza. 02:06:47
Event this year. 02:06:50
Just before Halloween. 02:06:51
And had. 02:06:53
Approximately 4000 attendees, which was huge, an increase over the years in the past. 02:06:54
Also coordinated. 02:07:01
With the Rojas farms. 02:07:03
To offer pumpkins to the community on the. 02:07:05
On the one day. 02:07:08
And those were incredibly popular. 02:07:10
I know that we saw pumpkins going all over the city. 02:07:12
The their teams installed two dog stations along the trail. 02:07:17
Near the train tracks. 02:07:22
I bring that up as a point of. 02:07:24
Of. 02:07:26
Note because I know that there's oftentimes concerns about about. 02:07:27
Not having those available and therefore. 02:07:31
Having issues with. 02:07:34
With dog feces found along those trails. So that's a big deal. 02:07:35
Also. 02:07:40
2 memorial bench and plaques were installed. 02:07:41
Just wanted to point out because this has come up. 02:07:45
On social media. 02:07:47
Those are fully funded through donations. 02:07:48
The benches. 02:07:53
Yes. Why were they on the budget then? 02:07:54
Any expenses that come through the city? 02:07:57
Have to go through our budget even if. 02:08:00
We have to track the revenue and then we have to track the expenses. 02:08:02
And so it shows up in our budget. 02:08:06
But it is not something that the city is is expending its own dollars. It's just expending the could you call that out on the 02:08:08
budget next time? Absolutely delineated. 02:08:12
Yeah, yeah. 02:08:16
Why were they still? 02:08:18
$12,000 though. 02:08:19
They were not $12,000 Twelve. 02:08:20
Maybe in the ballpark of. 02:08:22
6000 total for. 02:08:24
For how many for six benches? 02:08:26
So 1000 bucks each. 02:08:28
And usually when they go through the budget, they go through kind of our grants and expenses and then it shows what is coming in 02:08:30
and what's going on. 02:08:33
But we can be a little more clear about that next year. Yeah, that's great. 02:08:38
Also wanted to point out we have a whole page of. 02:08:41
Master plan updates. 02:08:44
That includes. 02:08:46
Mill Rd. Wayfinding station area plan. 02:08:48
Vineyard center rental program Bluffs at Vineyard so lots of different master plans. 02:08:51
And we try to keep you up to speed on what those are with an update each month. 02:08:57
Let's see. 02:09:03
I think there was one other. 02:09:04
On our occupancy from the building, on our building report, our total units occupied in Vineyard are now at 58130. 02:09:07
Which puts our estimated population at 22,742. 02:09:15
From this last month we had the. 02:09:22
Three single family dwellings were approved. 02:09:25
19 townhomes and three commercial units. 02:09:28
And that's it. 02:09:32
Awesome. Thank you so much. 02:09:35
We're going to go ahead and do our public hearing. 02:09:37
This is an update to the Vineyard City Development Standards and Design Specifications or. 02:09:39
Ordinance 2025-15 can. 02:09:44
Can I get a motion to go into a public hearing? 02:09:47
So moved. Thank you, Brett. Can I get a second? 02:09:50
2nd Thank you, Sarah. 02:09:53
We are now in a public hearing. 02:09:55
And then? 02:09:58
Chris Thompson, I believe our consultant. 02:10:00
Is going to be this discussion for us. Thanks so much for being here. 02:10:03
Yeah. Thank you. 02:10:07
I think I need this. 02:10:09
I don't think this will take a long time. 02:10:18
But. 02:10:21
Let's see. 02:10:23
I just push the button as soon as. 02:10:28
To run. 02:10:58
Do I press the button on here? 02:11:04
If you take it out and then put it back in. 02:11:06
OK, that's what I've noticed. I have to do it twice. 02:11:08
OK. 02:11:13
And then it comes. 02:11:15
Sorry that. 02:11:17
Something came up right here so. 02:11:22
You click it first. 02:11:27
Didn't do that. 02:11:32
There we go. All right, great. 02:11:34
Sorry about that. 02:11:36
Recently. 02:11:46
We've been able to work with engineering staff to revise the construction and development standards. 02:11:48
This is how your neighborhoods. 02:11:53
Are constructed. 02:11:55
From the curb and gutter to the sidewalks to the utilities under the ground. 02:11:57
And. 02:12:02
A lot of, really. 02:12:03
Change it. Good changes that I think will help. 02:12:06
The development community, the contractors, the inspectors, and. 02:12:08
The engineering reviewers. 02:12:12
One of the things. 02:12:15
That happened at the beginning of 2025. Is a new version of the. 02:12:17
American Poet Works Association, Utah Chapter Standards came out. 02:12:22
These are. 02:12:26
Are kind of like the Uniform building code, but for building. 02:12:27
The roads and the utilities. 02:12:31
And. 02:12:33
There's a state committee. 02:12:34
That meets on on. 02:12:36
On these standards and they update them every year. 02:12:38
And the latest update was in 2025 actually. 02:12:41
Scene is on this committee. 02:12:46
The state committee that. 02:12:49
That of Daisy standards. 02:12:50
And he's been a long standing member of the committee anyway, these standards. 02:12:52
Have a lot of detail. 02:12:57
That is. 02:12:59
Up to date on like. 02:13:00
The road base that you build underneath the asphalt. The asphalt. 02:13:01
How it's comprised and and and concrete, the standards for concrete, it stays up with all of those so that the cities don't have 02:13:05
to. 02:13:09
And so. 02:13:13
A lot of this. 02:13:15
Update to the Vineyard Standards where? 02:13:17
Was to adopt. 02:13:19
The APWA specifications and then take out. 02:13:21
Standards like. 02:13:25
Road base? How many? 02:13:26
You know what the graduation for your Rd. base is and and how the asphalt should be made-up to take that out so that. 02:13:28
That you just referred to a more up-to-date standard. 02:13:34
And the APWA specs? 02:13:38
Anyway, that's. 02:13:40
That's one change. 02:13:41
The second change which? 02:13:43
I really. 02:13:46
Feel like is going to help. 02:13:48
The inspectors, the. 02:13:49
The design engineers the. 02:13:51
The contractors is. 02:13:53
Is kind of organizing. 02:13:56
The standards in a way that. 02:13:58
That if you have. 02:14:00
A sanitary sewer or a drinking water. 02:14:01
A standards question you can go right there and get. 02:14:05
Get all of the answers and. 02:14:07
And and so. 02:14:09
Just reorganizing all the standards so that if you're a design engineer. 02:14:12
The design requirements are in one. 02:14:17
Section or if you're an inspector, the inspection. 02:14:19
Requirements are on one section as well. 02:14:23
And so this was. 02:14:25
A pretty good change. 02:14:27
I felt like for. 02:14:29
The people who use these standards all the time. 02:14:30
This is kind of. 02:14:34
An example of. 02:14:35
Of the previous. 02:14:37
Standards and. 02:14:38
To kind of see how. 02:14:40
We took all of this and organized it into. 02:14:42
Into a way that you you could. 02:14:45
Just go to one place. 02:14:47
Get all the information on on that item. 02:14:48
The other thing is, is vineyards have been. 02:14:52
Working on a new transportation master plan. 02:14:55
Which has made some some great. 02:14:57
New plans for the city's transportation system and and with that. 02:15:02
Some different. 02:15:07
Street cross sections. 02:15:08
Were proposed. 02:15:09
These were implemented into the standards so that. 02:15:10
You now had. 02:15:14
Your standard drawings for a street cross section match. 02:15:15
The the master plan. 02:15:17
And then the last kind of major. 02:15:19
Change that I think helps is. 02:15:22
A lot of the municip. 02:15:24
Code is. 02:15:25
Held in a program called Muni Code. 02:15:28
It allows you to very quickly get to. 02:15:31
To different codes and and standards and. 02:15:33
Ordinances and. 02:15:39
So, uh. 02:15:41
The last part of this once. 02:15:42
Once it's approved, is. 02:15:43
These construction standards will be put into muni code. 02:15:45
So that that. 02:15:48
Accessibility will be there for the contractors and engineers. 02:15:49
As well. 02:15:53
Any questions about all that before we? 02:15:56
Maybe. 02:15:59
Really high level changes that were proposed. 02:16:00
Doesn't look like it. 02:16:05
OK. All right. 02:16:06
Kind of just took kind of. 02:16:08
The more impactful. 02:16:10
We call them significant. 02:16:12
Revisions and thought we could hit those really quickly and then we'll be done. 02:16:14
The first one is. 02:16:18
A lot of times. 02:16:20
When a contractor. 02:16:21
Comes and tears up the roads and and replaces the water line or. 02:16:23
Or does some sort of work? 02:16:27
The engineering office gets some complaints of, well, my driveway was cracked or my sidewalk or what have you. 02:16:30
And. 02:16:37
You go out there as an engineer and and. 02:16:39
The contractors saying, well, that was already there and. 02:16:42
That homeowners saying well, it wasn't. 02:16:44
And and so one one of the additions to the standards is that a contractor is up to the contractor to take a video footage of the 02:16:47
area before starting work. 02:16:52
And and if that's neglected and and that's what will be used to to solve those type of disputes. If that's not there, then. 02:16:57
The disputes will be decided on the homeowners side, if that makes sense. So that's if the contractor wants to be able to. 02:17:06
Claim something is already. 02:17:15
Was already done. They have to provide that video. 02:17:17
The next one is. 02:17:21
Is. 02:17:22
There is a situation. 02:17:24
With UDOT where all the UDOT roads and there's quite a few. 02:17:26
UDOT roads in in in Vineyard. 02:17:28
They use a 30 inch curb and gutter. 02:17:32
But the Citi had 24 inch curb and gutter and so. 02:17:35
You're always kind of. 02:17:38
If you're a contractor and you're slipping. 02:17:40
The curb and go use these machines that just kind of lay it. 02:17:44
They call it slip lining anyway as they slip the curb and gutter. 02:17:48
In and then all of a sudden you go around a corner and you now have a 24 inch. 02:17:52
Gutter There's a lot of costs in reset up of the equipment and and. 02:17:57
That's that's fine. 02:18:02
Except for. 02:18:03
The 30 inch curb and gutter is much better. 02:18:04
It holds. 02:18:07
More of the water in during a storm and and a lot of times the edge of the road gets eroded and that's where you have a lot of St. 02:18:08
Problems because the water actually overflows the 24 inch curb gutter and and it erodes the water. There's two things that. 02:18:17
That hurt roads, and that's the sun. 02:18:24
And water. 02:18:27
And so if you have. 02:18:28
A little bit wider. 02:18:30
Kirby gutter temperature. 02:18:31
If you have a little bit wider curb and gutter, it holds that water in and it protects the road. 02:18:33
From that water. 02:18:37
The other thing? 02:18:39
About that is. 02:18:41
The cost of curbing gutter, a lot of it is in that big machine. 02:18:43
That slips it in. 02:18:47
And so. 02:18:48
When you add 6 inches onto it, the only real additional cost is for a little bit more concrete. 02:18:50
And. 02:18:56
And. 02:18:57
When you have concrete. 02:18:58
It doesn't really require much maintenance except for if it settles OK. 02:19:00
Whereas asphalt. 02:19:04
As a 20 year lifespan and you're. 02:19:06
You're always doing maintenance to the asphalt, so. 02:19:08
Taking out a foot of Rd. 02:19:11
You would think isn't a big deal, but it is a big deal. 02:19:12
Because the cost to construct the asphalt. 02:19:15
And to maintain it is very linear. 02:19:19
You add 1 foot and it adds exactly. 02:19:21
That percent of the road. 02:19:24
In in cost of maintenance and and construction so. 02:19:26
There's a lot of reasons why a 30 inch. 02:19:30
Kernel gutter. 02:19:32
Makes sense and and so this adds. 02:19:33
It basically makes the city standard for current gutter. 02:19:36
Match the the UDOT standard. 02:19:39
But unless of course you already have a road with 24 inch and then it would stay the same. 02:19:43
You just match. 02:19:47
Grandfather did. 02:19:48
Yeah. 02:19:50
Yeah, OK. 02:19:50
The next one is railroad crossings. 02:19:53
UDOT and the railroad and Utah. 02:19:56
Have really come into. 02:20:00
A much higher level of regulation railroad crossings, especially in regards to having a driveway. 02:20:05
Or another Rd. close by. 02:20:10
Because of the hazard of it and and diagnostic. 02:20:12
Type. 02:20:15
Events are triggered once. 02:20:17
You get within 200 feet of of a railroad crossing, and so this creates a standard that says you just can't have a street 02:20:19
intersection. 02:20:23
Within. 02:20:28
200 feet of railroad crossing. 02:20:29
And and if you want. 02:20:31
A driveway. 02:20:33
Then the developer would have to pay for that diagnostic. 02:20:34
That's required. 02:20:37
There any questions on what I've said so far? 02:20:39
Yeah, I have. I have a question on the. 02:20:43
You can't have an intersection by the. 02:20:47
Railroad crossing. Can you explain that one a little bit more? 02:20:49
OK, so. 02:20:52
St. Intersections. 02:20:54
Yeah, explain that one. 02:20:55
Code approaches a railroad crossing. 02:20:58
There there's there's some hazard. 02:21:03
In umm. 02:21:05
Blocking. 02:21:08
The access across that railroad and so. 02:21:11
What what happens is a lot of times. 02:21:14
I'm sorry. 02:21:17
I think I understand the right of review and the hazard. 02:21:18
I don't think I understand when you say no St. intersections. What do? 02:21:22
What are we defining as St. intersections? 02:21:27
Around our railroad. 02:21:30
So if you measured from the. 02:21:31
From the railroad. 02:21:34
Out 250 feet down the. 02:21:36
The road You couldn't have a new proposal. 02:21:38
St. come in to to. 02:21:41
To that street, so. 02:21:43
This is railroad crossing. Here's the road. 02:21:45
You'd have to measure 250 feet before you could propose a new road. 02:21:47
To connect to this. 02:21:50
This street that crosses the railroad. 02:21:52
Does that make more sense? 02:21:54
Yeah, it does make more sense. 02:21:56
I'm just wondering if I like that one or not. 02:21:58
All right, continue. 02:22:01
Come back to that one. 02:22:03
That's mostly a safety situation. 02:22:04
That UDOT, UTA, Union Pacific, all of the. 02:22:08
The railroad folks, Sorry. 02:22:11
Saying, yeah, it's you got to keep those 250 feet or more away. 02:22:13
When so? 02:22:17
This just eliminates. 02:22:19
Review. All right. 02:22:20
Go to the next one. I'm gonna think about that. 02:22:22
OK, OK, great. 02:22:23
11. 02:22:27
Issue that you have a lot in development is if a field is is is going to be developed and has a road along. 02:22:29
The edge of the field. 02:22:35
A lot of cities don't require. 02:22:38
The full Rd. 02:22:40
To be built. 02:22:42
In between the two fields. 02:22:43
But they do require enough of the road so that you can get two way traffic and and get that but. 02:22:46
It doesn't seem fair to. 02:22:52
Require all the right away. 02:22:53
On the one property owner. 02:22:55
And all of the improvements and then the property owner across the street. 02:22:57
Basically. 02:23:01
Can develop all their property and doesn't have all that road to put in, so it's very common. 02:23:02
Across Utah to. 02:23:09
To make them build half the road plus 10 feet and plus a little buffer. 02:23:10
Okay. And and vineyards the same ways have been the same way. 02:23:14
But there's a problem that occurs when you get. 02:23:18
To an intersection. 02:23:21
And. 02:23:23
Not just in that case, but. 02:23:25
Sometimes a development will phase. 02:23:27
They'll build 1 section. 02:23:30
One phase of their development 1st and then the next phase, and then the next phase. 02:23:31
And and sometimes. 02:23:35
When they get to those. 02:23:37
Phase lines. There's an intersection there, and. 02:23:38
And uh. 02:23:41
They'll try to build. 02:23:43
Kind of half plus 10 feet of an intersection, it just doesn't work very well. And so there's require that you have to build out. 02:23:45
The full intersection. 02:23:52
With each phase of the development. 02:23:53
OK, I'm going to go back to the last one. 02:23:56
All right. 02:23:59
A few scenarios. 02:24:02
Is a new intersection. 02:24:03
An at grade or. 02:24:05
Is that also an overpass? 02:24:07
No, it just be out crazy, OK and. 02:24:09
Is. 02:24:12
A new intersection. 02:24:13
Where we're trying to get. 02:24:16
We'll say 1200 N. 02:24:19
Goes in before the spur line is removed due to one of our agreements. 02:24:22
Normally it would just require flaggers, but in this code it would mean. 02:24:29
We can have no new intersection. 02:24:34
No or assessment would be required. 02:24:37
Are those different? 02:24:39
Yeah. 02:24:42
So if you had a situation where a spur was coming out. 02:24:44
The city engineer has. 02:24:50
The opportunity in your in your code. 02:24:52
To to make exception for that. 02:24:55
Call get the diagnostics. 02:24:57
Where you bring out UDOT, you bring out the railroad and you do the diagnostic and you review it. 02:24:59
But it would. 02:25:05
It would take an exception to the rule. 02:25:07
Rather than just be allowed by the rule. 02:25:09
Hmm. So we already have the right of review from the railroad. We already have it from you dot. 02:25:12
But why would we create another hurdle for us to put roads and I and I get safety? I'm just thinking as a city that's bifurcated 02:25:19
by rail. 02:25:23
In a city that's locked in by rail. 02:25:27
Our entire goal as a city. 02:25:30
Has been to overcome this hurdle and create every access point availability. 02:25:32
I mean. 02:25:37
Right now we're so. 02:25:38
Traffic jammed along 800 N. 02:25:40
That any opportunity we have to open any cross section. 02:25:43
Is what we're going to do and so. 02:25:47
I don't know why as a city we would say. 02:25:49
Hey, this is going to be the exception to the rule when. 02:25:52
Our rule? 02:25:55
In our city right now is. 02:25:56
Cross it. 02:25:58
You know, I mean we want to remove it. 02:25:59
And we want to build over it, of course, for safety because we care, but we also need to get out of here. 02:26:01
There's huge cost. There's a simple solution to that. You can just add the words. 02:26:07
Unless otherwise authorized by the. 02:26:12
City engineer or the post director or someone? 02:26:15
And and and and then you still have the teeth. 02:26:18
Of. 02:26:21
If a developer wants to come and put one where you don't even want it. 02:26:22
You can still prevent it if you OK, so you could organize it. 02:26:25
That would be a pretty easy. 02:26:29
Addition to that and I. 02:26:31
I don't know. I'll defer to staff if they. 02:26:33
But but. 02:26:36
It seems like. 02:26:39
You don't want to be caught up in a lot of diet. 02:26:41
Diagnostic. 02:26:43
Because another thing for me is I'm thinking I like that because it's something where you don't want to Rd. but then you think 02:26:46
there's additional cost to getting inspections, making it harder for businesses. Sorry, I'm troublemaker. Yeah. Patrick James, 02:26:50
assistant city engineer. 02:26:54
I believe we already added that language unless other other. 02:26:58
Otherwise approved by the City engineer. 02:27:03
But I feel like there's a little bit of confusion still. So I don't think that this doesn't necessarily eliminate the possibility 02:27:06
of a crossing. 02:27:10
It's just it's another St. intersecting. 02:27:14
That road that's crossing the railroad within 250 feet? 02:27:18
Maybe. 02:27:22
I don't know. I'm thinking there's a little bit of confusion. So you're saying that? 02:27:23
In Mayer's example where 1200 N we have. 02:27:28
The intention hopefully to get 1200 N to push through to Geneva Rd. 02:27:31
As long as it's just pushing through to Geneva Rd. 02:27:36
That would be your. 02:27:39
Otherwise approved. 02:27:40
You just wouldn't want to shortly thereafter at a Rd. 02:27:42
Within 250 feet, yeah, 1200 N and the existing spur line paralleling it. 02:27:45
Yeah. So it just keeps that distance away, so as people. 02:27:52
So, for example, as people back up to that intersection, they're not crossing into that. 02:27:56
Railroad, uh. 02:28:02
Aligned. 02:28:03
Does that make more sense? 02:28:05
OK. And like we can't? 02:28:07
'Cause this problem that I'm seeing that that makes sense. 02:28:10
OK. Thanks. Thanks, Patrick. 02:28:13
OK, so the next one. 02:28:16
Is. 02:28:19
Building and pavements not allowed over landfilled. 02:28:20
Areas. 02:28:24
This this is a big problem. 02:28:26
Problem where? 02:28:29
Where you have filled. 02:28:31
Brought in a lot of times it'll settle. 02:28:33
A lot of times, a lot of things in there that. 02:28:36
That maybe are contaminants or. 02:28:38
One city. 02:28:41
How did development go over a landfilled area and and everything went great. They followed all the. 02:28:43
All the reports, all the. 02:28:48
The requirements that. 02:28:50
That the environmental documents, the geotech. 02:28:51
Documents and. 02:28:54
Things had it, but then the gas company came in and. 02:28:55
Dug their trenches in it. 02:28:57
Unearthed a lot of garbage and things. 02:28:59
And. 02:29:02
Ended up being in a huge. 02:29:03
Battle over that. 02:29:05
And had to move. 02:29:06
All the development. 02:29:08
Off of it just because of public opinion and so. 02:29:09
This helps you. 02:29:12
To avoid that it. 02:29:13
Even if. 02:29:17
If you come in, you get all these reports saying we'll do it. 02:29:19
This way there's there's a lot of. 02:29:22
Of. 02:29:24
Public angst about building over landfill type areas and so this just. 02:29:27
Added a. 02:29:32
Requirement that buildings and payments. 02:29:34
Can't be built over that type of. 02:29:36
Of the situation. So we do have a containment. 02:29:38
Facility in our area that. 02:29:43
The city has always planned to allow for pavement over that facility in some way. 02:29:45
This would stop that ability for pavement to be put on there. 02:29:52
Yes it would. 02:29:57
You left this in. 02:29:58
I mean I. 02:30:00
I understand buildings. 02:30:02
White pavement. 02:30:04
Especially with just impacted material. Is landfill different? 02:30:07
Well, they measure the settlement. 02:30:11
Yeah, then it becomes completely unusable. But if you allow some kind of. 02:30:12
Surface. 02:30:19
I mean from everything that I've. 02:30:21
Learned about it, it feels like. 02:30:24
That was the one thing that they could allow to go in. 02:30:25
That space. 02:30:28
Yeah, from what I've seen personally as an engineer, I've seen pavements over this. 02:30:30
Type of material and and they don't hold up very well. 02:30:35
And so they after. 02:30:39
Not very much time. 02:30:42
Then they crack. But. 02:30:43
This definitely is is a political decision. I mean, if you. 02:30:45
I want to remove pavements. 02:30:50
That's easy to do, but. 02:30:52
It's mostly. 02:30:54
To say, look, if you're going to build. 02:30:56
A parking lot or a building you don't want it to settle. 02:31:00
You want. 02:31:04
Preferred foundation, but it'd be easy to. 02:31:05
That payments requirement out if you want. 02:31:08
No, I just want to learn more about it because we've had so many engineers and people come and talk to us about it. And so it's so 02:31:12
interesting to see it come forward, especially because the scene sits on that. 02:31:17
Committee with you. 02:31:22
So interesting. 02:31:23
I 100% back that. 02:31:26
I would trust you with that because you've had so much settling in Vineyard. 02:31:28
With so many developments and we should have. 02:31:34
Had that standard a long time ago. 02:31:37
I've seen in situations where you want to do. 02:31:39
Like a park or something which is a good. 02:31:43
Actually a good way to handle that type of material is is where you do put the parking lot you. 02:31:45
You excavate it out and. 02:31:51
And then build it back up. 02:31:53
But. 02:31:55
That's this is your code. 02:31:58
So you can do it however you want. 02:32:00
OK. 02:32:02
Glass is. 02:32:07
Fire hydrants. 02:32:09
One problem that fire department. 02:32:12
Quite often have is. 02:32:13
Is they come out. 02:32:15
To a fire. They're in a hurry. 02:32:17
And if they don't see that hydrant write off. 02:32:18
And they have to hunt for it then. Then that's a problem. 02:32:22
And and so. 02:32:25
In response to this, a lot of cities are putting what's called an apron around the hydrants. 02:32:27
Some concrete and. 02:32:34
2 feet in each direction and. 02:32:35
It's really hard to plant a Bush in concrete and so. 02:32:37
That does a good job at. 02:32:40
It looks. 02:32:42
Nice. 02:32:43
And clean. 02:32:45
And it just keeps. 02:32:47
Keeps those hydrants. 02:32:48
Open from having people. 02:32:51
Put fences or. 02:32:53
Or trees or whatever in front of them. 02:32:55
So. 02:32:58
Any questions about that? 02:33:00
You don't care about the next one. 02:33:05
I don't know if anyone does but. 02:33:07
There's a new meter. 02:33:09
Box assembly. 02:33:10
Design and then. 02:33:12
The state requires A sewer clean out at the back of the sidewalk now. 02:33:14
And this is really nice for residents as they. 02:33:19
Have problems with their sewer lines. They can have a clean out there and one at the house and so. 02:33:22
That's one and then? 02:33:26
There's now a parking lot. 02:33:28
Drawing in the standards so. 02:33:30
An engineer and architect can pull that out and. 02:33:34
And quickly design a parking lot. 02:33:36
Know the dimensions of all the. 02:33:38
Lanes and and stalls. 02:33:40
And then finally. 02:33:43
Vineyard had a survey monument standard. I don't know those. 02:33:46
Followed a lot. 02:33:50
But Utah County. 02:33:52
Has the county surveyor. 02:33:54
And and the county surveyors. 02:33:56
Response is. 02:33:59
Is. 02:34:01
Don't put them in. 02:34:01
They're not going to maintain them if they do get put in. 02:34:03
And, and the, the county with GPS is able, has been able to survey all the section corners, all the section quarter corners and, 02:34:06
and different things. And that's all they need. They don't need monuments anymore. So that's just kind of an old. 02:34:12
Throwback in the standards. 02:34:18
Any more questions? 02:34:21
Are there more slides? 02:34:23
No, I mean there there are, but. 02:34:25
You don't want to see them. OK, well, I want to invite the public. The public Have any questions? 02:34:27
Not at this time. 02:34:35
OK. I'm going to call for a motion to go out of a public hearing if you are done presenting. 02:34:36
Yeah. 02:34:41
OK I have a first by Sarah. Can I get a second? 02:34:44
Thank you, Brett. All in favor. 02:34:47
Aye. 02:34:49
Aye, aye. 02:34:49
All right, Council, do you have questions? 02:34:51
Or comments. 02:34:54
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in any of this stuff. I mean, that's why you're here. 02:34:57
But. 02:35:02
In their review that I that I've done I. 02:35:03
It is super thorough. Everything that I've seen is. 02:35:06
In line with what we would expect and even some of the comments, I was able to go search. 02:35:11
Just in the during the presentation and. 02:35:15
Like that language about the? 02:35:18
Railroad crossing it it it is in there. 02:35:19
So yeah. 02:35:23
Good job. 02:35:24
I'm pretty happy. I like and I like all of the stuff that's in there. 02:35:25
I would also back that like these standards are brought forth because of hundreds of problems. 02:35:31
That have happened over many years. 02:35:38
And getting the brightest of minds that are involved in that, like the compaction. 02:35:40
And saying what should that standard be for longevity so the problems in the future don't come? 02:35:45
And I'm grateful that an organization like that exists as a trade and there's no way I would ever question it. 02:35:51
So yeah. 02:35:58
100% vote and I I wouldn't recommend. 02:35:59
Altering it at all? 02:36:03
Sarah, do you have anything? 02:36:05
I actually. 02:36:08
Disagree a little bit, because. 02:36:10
If the land is. 02:36:11
Not usable. 02:36:14
To be able to lay asphalt on it and. 02:36:15
Repair it every five years to make it usable. 02:36:17
That seems like a better use of. 02:36:20
Available land. 02:36:23
Yeah, I I wonder if we do want to. 02:36:25
Pass it tonight if we could. 02:36:28
I kind of want to come back to that. I want to go research it a little bit more. 02:36:32
So if let's say you walk down that road and the developer builds a Rd. 02:36:36
That is over a. 02:36:41
Landfill. 02:36:43
It would be upon the city. 02:36:44
To pay or to fix? 02:36:46
That particular problem and by having a standard in that's high. 02:36:48
You're risking or taking the liability and saying. 02:36:53
We already know based off of hundreds of hours of research that compacted land might be good and they try to do it, but at the end 02:36:56
of the day. 02:36:59
Whatever given reason. 02:37:03
Compacted naturally over thousands of years is more stable and so if we give a variance on that. 02:37:05
Then you don't know. 02:37:12
I mean, I can't tell you how many hundreds of. 02:37:15
Parcels around Vineyard have settled. 02:37:17
After the fact of them saying well. 02:37:21
They compacted it to a level and they tried and they did their best and they did all the standards but. 02:37:24
It ended up just not. 02:37:29
Just earth moves. 02:37:31
So yeah, no, and I'm 100% with you like I avoiding any of that liability going through all those studies. I I think I'm just 02:37:33
saying. 02:37:37
I would like to go and research it and study it more and understand it a little bit better before I. 02:37:42
Yeah, if I could make a little point of clarification too. So I. 02:37:48
I kind of understood it a lot. Like Cal, Jake just said, it's kind of a liability issue, right? 02:37:53
But I also understand that there's there's areas in the city like the Camus that we have planned on developing. So we added 02:37:59
language to that section that. 02:38:04
That basically said that it can still be developed on as long as it goes through all the. 02:38:09
State. Federal. Local. 02:38:14
Environmental regulations and and all those all those things. So it just kind of adds. So there's a caveat inside of are you 02:38:16
saying the camo? 02:38:20
We plan on developing the Cambo. Is that what you said? Yeah, that's that's that's what we're talking about here is the. 02:38:24
If I'm if I'm correct that that the Camus the only the only use for the Camus is if you put. 02:38:30
Some kind of payment on top? 02:38:37
You can't have and you. 02:38:39
In the code. 02:38:41
Which I must have missed, you're saying? 02:38:42
There is an availability for that if it goes through all the right processes. Yeah, as long as it goes through all the all the 02:38:45
environmental, federal, state and local regulations and processes, then the city engineer or public works director. 02:38:52
Maybe I have it. 02:39:01
In print. 02:39:04
Find this section for you. 02:39:06
I think if those two. 02:39:13
Things are there that say. 02:39:15
As far as leaving rail and the caveat for developing those areas, because it's such a large swath of land and as long as it goes 02:39:22
through all the processes to avoid liability. 02:39:27
That was my main concern and like I said, I'm 100% with Jake wanting to avoid any liability and any problems like that, but if 02:39:33
there is something inside of it that says hey. 02:39:38
If. 02:39:42
This works out and it looks right, and there's that option. 02:39:43
That makes more sense to, I think. 02:39:47
If if the. 02:39:49
And this may be a question for your city attorney, but you could probably. 02:39:50
A vote to approve it. 02:39:55
Based on that. 02:39:57
Being in the actual ordinance. 02:40:00
And then? 02:40:04
If it's already there, then it doesn't have to be changed. If it's not, it can be added. 02:40:06
Patrick, is there urgency to adopt this today and not at the next Council meeting? 02:40:10
Not, not a huge urgency. I mean, we, we have just been in this process for a long time. Our, our current standards and 02:40:17
specifications are quite old, you know, dating back to. 02:40:22
20/16/2007 I think, where the Council has taken up. 02:40:28
This. 02:40:32
Ordinance. 02:40:34
If you did have an application that came in in the next month, you could still. 02:40:35
Weight and apply. 02:40:39
These standards once we have them on the table, because they're on the table already. 02:40:42
There's enough concern in this. 02:40:47
That I. 02:40:50
I think it would be worth the wait. 02:40:51
I I think, yeah. 02:40:53
Councilmember Holdaway's point is worth looking at because. 02:40:56
We don't want the city to be left holding the. 02:40:59
The bag, so to speak, if. 02:41:02
A developer constructs. 02:41:05
On top of compacted soil. 02:41:06
And then you have settling in the city's responsible for the maintenance or upkeep of that. 02:41:09
Because you'll have more than your routine maintenance, You're going to have to go back in, bring in fill, recompact with soil, 02:41:15
deal with whatever utilities are underneath. 02:41:18
I wonder if there's a way to allow. 02:41:23
If you then have the other problem of are there certain? 02:41:27
Properties within the city that would be undevelopable or unusable. 02:41:30
If you didn't allow for. 02:41:35
Paving. 02:41:38
Over compacted soils and I think what we need to figure out is. 02:41:39
If you allow for that type of thing, what are the circumstances where you allow it? That gets at what Patrick's talking about. 02:41:43
But the other thing I'd like to look at is. 02:41:50
Do you allow it only with? 02:41:52
Some kind of protection being provided by the developer to the city, right maybe a bond, maybe an insurance product right let's 02:41:55
figure out what that is and pair it so that if that use is allowed and we're. 02:42:02
Permitting it based on information put forward by the developer that the developer backs it with either a warranty or some kind 02:42:08
of. 02:42:12
Product that the city can call on to protect itself OK yeah this is an assume I'm sorry. I was I stopped I had stopped out earlier 02:42:16
I just had to do some of the other items. But in essence I. 02:42:22
We're talking about pairing pavements on top of. 02:42:29
The Karen Center, OK, those things, I mean. 02:42:32
In essence, we can insist on in essence, what's called a performance based design. 02:42:35
I mean in a sense like. 02:42:42
The I mean, I'm an engineer. 02:42:44
Yeah, I pretend to be once every once in a while, but I'm an engineer and. 02:42:48
The the age-old we built it based on the safe standards or redesigned based on the save standards. It doesn't hold much water. 02:42:52
On that I say that as an as because I act as an expert engineer witness. 02:43:01
On several matters and cases. 02:43:07
Were just because. 02:43:09
An engineer designed to the certain standards and so forth. If it doesn't come to if it doesn't perform the way that is intended 02:43:12
to perform. 02:43:15
The engineer of record, the contractor and primarily the engineer records still holds liability to ensure that the performance of 02:43:18
that. 02:43:23
Was to. 02:43:27
Meet the requirements of the intended purposes and they can't hide behind well, I just followed so and so standards. Therefore I'm 02:43:28
I'm not liable. I say this having. 02:43:34
Recently. 02:43:41
Like 20 foot rockery failures where they followed a certain city's standard to the T but it failed within and like it failed 02:43:45
within like less than 10 years. 02:43:49
On that. 02:43:54
And then of course, like building collapses and so forth. 02:43:55
So again. 02:43:59
On something like this I would say that the. 02:44:01
Kind of a based on Jamie's point, I mean there is a bond, there's warranties on there, but even past that there is. 02:44:03
I'll say that there is liability. 02:44:08
The engineers by themselves. 02:44:11
Do have a? 02:44:14
Liability that they're that they had to, they have to abide to. 02:44:15
Yeah, I like all of that. I think that's fine. So the recommendation is to continue it to the next meeting then? Yeah, that would 02:44:18
be my recommendation. And then let's work language into the. 02:44:23
I've into the ordinance that will protect the city. 02:44:28
OK, I found this section in wording if you're curious to hear it now, Sure. 02:44:31
So it's 1.08.09 specialized engineering. 02:44:35
So, landfill construction debris or garbage. Any work around and related to landfills or areas with buried debris, waste or 02:44:39
garbage will require phase one environmental report with recommendations for additional study. 02:44:45
No buildings, paved parking lots, paved roads, curb, gutter, sidewalks or allowed. 02:44:51
Are allowed. 02:44:56
To be located over landfills, construction debris or garbage unless otherwise approved by the appropriate federal, state, and or 02:44:57
city agency having jurisdiction. 02:45:01
OK, that's great. 02:45:06
So it looks like if anybody makes an application, we can already. 02:45:07
Work within these. 02:45:11
The processes that you've outlined before us, this was really thorough and helpful. Thank you so much. 02:45:12
And I just need a motion to continue it to the next. 02:45:18
Are we, are we expecting a development to come? 02:45:22
Is under this. 02:45:26
I don't think so. 02:45:27
I think before the end of the year. 02:45:28
To us, is there somebody that's like, well, it would apply to? 02:45:30
Lot or parcel that pulls a building permit, right? 02:45:35
What would be expected so? 02:45:39
Maybe, but I don't know that we have. 02:45:41
Large application pending or are we expecting the orchards before the end of the year? 02:45:44
Not a new phase, no. 02:45:50
Yeah, there's always, there's always continuing developments coming up. 02:45:53
But the developers have been really good to work with us on on getting what we. 02:45:57
What we want anyway. 02:46:02
These these standards just kind of. 02:46:03
Protect us so that. 02:46:06
If we if we make an ask, we, we say this, this is in our standards, right? They they cannot dispute it. 02:46:08
But yeah, there's no immediate development reason why we wouldn't just. 02:46:15
Approve this and then come back and make the small changes that you're talking about because I think there's so much protection. 02:46:18
You could do that as well. Let's just do that because there's so much protection in what he's talking about. 02:46:24
That we could just carve out what we. 02:46:29
Don't like? 02:46:31
Like what you're saying? 02:46:33
I do want to add that it's kind of our goal. 02:46:35
Letting standards go several years without an update is not. 02:46:39
Good practice generally. So as I read through, I was actually concerned about the liability of like so many of these things. If 02:46:43
you let's get this in this fact, if you want to go that direction, that makes sense. 02:46:48
What I would recommend so that you don't have to re notice a public hearing. 02:46:53
Is that you continue not just the ordinance but also the hearing? 02:46:58
To the next meeting and then. 02:47:03
That way you can adopt what you have now but not have to re notice things. 02:47:07
So how would the motion look? Let me I guess look at Naseem or should we just re notice it for the next meeting also? 02:47:11
So we'll adopt tonight. 02:47:19
Let me restate it. I didn't say that very clearly. 02:47:21
To adopt an ordinance with development standards, you have to go through the land use notice and comment, right? So it goes not 02:47:24
just the council, but to. 02:47:29
Your Planning Commission. 02:47:34
You have already done that, so you've. 02:47:35
And you've held part of the public hearing today. 02:47:39
I don't want to. 02:47:41
Have to redo all of the. 02:47:42
Procedure before. 02:47:44
You make an additional change in your next meeting. 02:47:46
So I think what you. 02:47:50
Probably. 02:47:53
I'm going to think out loud on this and I. 02:47:54
Hope I'm not wrong. 02:47:56
On it but. 02:47:57
If you wish to adopt it today, I think you probably have to rehear it before it comes to you at your next meeting. 02:48:00
If you wish to continue it. 02:48:07
To your next meeting then. 02:48:09
I don't think you have to redo the hearing because you've done that. You would just continue. 02:48:11
And make the decision at a later point in time. There's not a perfect answer. 02:48:16
With that procedural wrinkle. 02:48:21
What do you guys feel comfortable with this is you guys have in the next week or two like the the things that you want changed? 02:48:25
Like Mayor, do you? 02:48:32
Just the compaction of dirt thing. 02:48:35
It's that small thing. 02:48:37
Yeah, I I mean. 02:48:40
If you guys want to adopt it because you feel comfortable with it, I think that hits. 02:48:41
My thing, I think you could put additional protections in for liability like Jamie was saying. 02:48:46
Which is why you'd want to re notice it and put more things in. 02:48:51
There is AI mean the ordinance and. 02:48:55
I hope I'm right about this, but some of them bad levels could maybe may be may able to be addressed at the DRC level because 02:48:58
there's a part of the ordinance that allows. 02:49:03
For. 02:49:08
Areas, emissions and other. 02:49:09
Updates to meet certain statutes statutory standards to be done at the DRC, but the question the same is whether the city could 02:49:12
apply an additional. 02:49:16
Bond or insurance requirement for that kind of development, so I don't. 02:49:21
I think you're right as it relates to. 02:49:25
The engineer standing behind their work. But what that doesn't give you is a financial resource the city can turn to. 02:49:28
If what's constructed fails. 02:49:35
And so I. 02:49:38
I'd like the idea of if you have. 02:49:39
A requirement related to construction to design is that the language you used? 02:49:43
That you would pair it with. 02:49:48
Something that would make the city whole. 02:49:50
If it failed within a certain period of time. 02:49:53
On most construction you're going to have a one year warranty and maybe on. 02:49:56
Pavement over compacted soils, you extend that. 02:50:00
A period of time based on what's built. 02:50:04
I am not an engineer and so I don't want to speculate as to what that would be or what it might look like. 02:50:07
And I think we also have to look at the state law restrictions on how long you can hold those things and under what circumstances, 02:50:14
because there are there are more moving parts and. 02:50:18
Yeah, the structural failures I've been part of have been usually 7-8 years old. 02:50:25
And on that portion of it, but yeah, you're right. 02:50:30
So I don't know that I have a preference whether the city adopts. 02:50:34
Whether the Council adopts us today or at its next meeting, just know that. 02:50:37
If you adopt it today, we probably have to re notice it. This is what I think the new part through that process, this is what I'm 02:50:42
thinking. If no changes really come except for additional burden on removing liability from the city, let's continue it and put it 02:50:47
on like our consent agenda. If we add it something additional and if we don't, we'll have it on our consent agenda and we'll just 02:50:52
pass it as it. 02:50:57
Was resembled tonight. 02:51:02
You know. 02:51:03
Because to anybody's point, that says. 02:51:04
Something could happen where somebody makes an application, not that there is an application. 02:51:07
Jamie already said because we have these underway. 02:51:11
You can use these standards as a guide for what we're doing so. 02:51:15
Can I get a motion to continue it to the next meeting? 02:51:19
I'd be happy to do so, but I comment I wanted to make first. I think there is language in there about. 02:51:22
Bonding and accepting in. 02:51:28
Extended warranty. 02:51:31
I'm not sure if they're in. 02:51:32
This exact context or not, but I'm pretty sure I saw that in there. 02:51:33
There is a bonding section in the specifications so. 02:51:37
Our process that whenever there's a permit comes through, we we diagnose basically what what we would need it for a bond. 02:51:41
Based on the cost of construction or or what would happen and we. 02:51:48
We implement or we ask for a bond. 02:51:51
For each permit, it's kind of a permit by permit basis. OK. Would you mind continuing it? 02:51:54
OK, so move to continue it. 02:51:59
All right, can I get a second? 02:52:01
Second, thanks Sarah, all in favor. 02:52:03
Aye. 02:52:05
All right, that brings us to the close of our meeting. 02:52:06
Have a great night. 02:52:08