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  • Start Position
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  • Chair Nathan Steele called the meeting to order at00pm and led the invocation. He led the pledge of allegiance.  
  • Presentations/Recognitions/Awards/Proclamations   There were no comments.  
  • Public Comments PC
  • Resident Daria Evans asked about the Planning Commission member on Development Review Committee (DRC). She asked about the project selection process.
  • Planner Anthony Fletcher entered at03pm. Chair Steele closed the public hearing and prompted the questions to staff.
  • Senior Planner Cache Hancey provided a background of DRC and the process for applications and projects. He added that DRC approves plats.  
  • Consent Items  1.Approval of the Septemberd,25 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes   Naseem Ghandour, City Engineer and Public Works Director, entered at05pm.
  • Motion: COMMISSIONER DAVID PEARCE MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE SEPTEMBERD,25 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES AT05PM. COMMISSIONER GRADEN OSTLER SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR VOTED YES: FAGG, PEARCE, STEELE, AND PEARCE. THE VOTE CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  
  • Business Items  2.
  • Public Hearing: ​District Energy Zoning Text Amendment
  • Senior Planner Hancey shared a video for background and clarified the intent of the item. He introduced the applicant.
  • Commissioner Ostler asked about the existing buildings that are not using this right now.
  • Craig Cannon with flagship discussed the timeline of the process.   Discussion ensued about which buildings would use it.
  • Commissioner Pearce asked about the number of plants.   Mr. Cannon noted yes and explained the equipment.
  • Commissioner Pearce asked about the percentage of energy they will provide for the area.   Mr. Cannon discussed the energy usage from the district energy system.
  • Commissioner Ostler asked about cost savings.   Mr. Cannon noted they want to do something to save money, is more resilient, and is more sustainable. He described the intent.
  • Commissioner Pearce asked about the conversations with Rocky Mountain Power.   Mr. Cannon noted that they have been having discussions, but that they do not have anything in writing.
  • Commissioner Brad Fagg asked if it was a boiler system.   Mr. Cannon discussed the pipes and circulation.   Discussion ensued.
  • Chair Steele reiterated what the discussion is about tonight.
  • Senior Planner Hancey discussed the edits suggested in the zoning text.
  • Chair Steele asked if there was a reason why the language is so specific.   Discussion ensued.
  • Chair Steele asked if there were definitions added. He also asked about the sizing.   Mr. Cannon discussed the structure of the plants.
  • Chair Steele asked if this application still holds to the remaining code requirements.   Community Development Director Morgan Brim noted that it would be held to the architectural requirements.
  • Chair Steele opened the public comments.
  • Ms. Evans asked about the DRC item scheduled tomorrow. She asked about the timeline of the process. Ms. Evans asked about conversations had and retrofitting buildings. She asked logistical questions to understand the system better.
  • Resident David Lauret asked about how it is supposed to work. He also asked about how it will be controlled on an individual basis. Mr. Lauret asked about coordination for the specialized equipment.
  • Resident Terry Ewing asked about maintenance and asked about the inclusion of specialized equipment in plans. She asked about parking and noted that there is already job postings.
  • Ms. Evans called out a Bill for staff to review.
  • Chair Steele closed the public hearing. He prompted the questions.
  • Senior Planner Hancey noted that DRC will not be approving anything, just for initial conversation.   Discussion ensued.
  • Mr. Cannon responded to that status of the process currently. He discussed where the source of the energy and heat can come from. Mr. Cannon noted that there have been conversations with Enbridge.
  • Bronson Tatton with Flagborough added his understanding of the conversations with Enbridge.
  • Mr. Cannon discussed the cost breakdown and outlined the ability to have individual thermostats.   Discussion ensued.
  • Chair Steele asked for the city attorney’s opinion on the house bill.               Mr. Cannon explained the change in that bill. He discussed how the system works.   Chair Steele asked if this is going to be sufficient.
  • Mr. Cannon discussed scale and the included buildings for the system. He described the transfer system and specialized equipment. Mr. Cannon noted that the utility would own and maintain the pipes.   Discussion ensued about attendance and parking.
  • Chair Steele encouraged conversations with staff.
  • Chair Steele noted that a lot of the comments were a business topic, not legislative. He suggested to make the language more broad and to add definitions.    Director Brim noted that there is time to get the code written and then review again.   Discussion ensued.   Senior Planner Hancey discussed the process of adding definitions.   Chair Steele noted that the recommendation should include conditions to modify language in the ordinance.
  • Commissioner Pearce noted his opinion and agreed to the chair’s suggested condition.
  • Motion: CHAIR STEELE MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL WITH THE NOTED CONDITIONS AT58PM. COMMISSIONER OSTLER SECONDED. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: BRAD, YES; DAVID, YES; NATHAN, YES; GRADEN, YES. THE VOTE CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  
  • Work Session  3.
  • The Forge Development Agreement Amendment
  • Director Brim discussed the background of the development agreement and highlighted what it does and doesn’t do.
  • Steve Borup, the applicant, discussed the agreement and the changes requested.
  • Commissioner Pearce clarified changes.   Mr. Borup clarified.   Commissioner Ostler asked about the intent of the amendment.
  • Chair Steele asked if he believed the retail would need incentive.   Mr. Borup discussed the retail demand.   Discussion ensued.
  • Chair Steele asked about the status of the retail before the housing.   Director Brim discussed how they work with a development agreement.
  • Commissioner Fagg asked if they have a bond.   Director Brim and Chair Steele discussed performance bonds.
  • Chair Steele made a recommendation on language.   Discussion ensued.   Commissioner Ostler discussed his understandings.
  • IHC representative, Ryan Wallace, briefed the status of the plan and discussed the demand for this type of use.   Chair Steele asked about the zoning.   Director Brim noted that it is The Forge Special Purpose Zoning District and discussed steps forward.
  • Chair Steele recommended language.   Discussion ensued.   Chair Steele opened up to the public
  • Ms. Evans appreciated this negotiation.
  • Chair Steele noted that he is in favor with the suggested changes. He asked about the necessity for residential versus more retail.   Chair Steele summarized discussion and added feedback.   There were no further comments.   
  • Staff and Commission Reports
  • Director Ghandour reported on the pedestrian enhancements progress.  
  • Adjournment   Chair Steele adjourned the meeting at31pm.       minutes certified COMPLETE ON: Novemberh,25 CERTIFIED (NOTICED) BY:                                                      Madison Reed, Planning Technician

Transcript

Alright, everybody welcome. 00:00:06
To the Intercity Planning Commission meeting of October 1st. 00:00:08
2025, we're gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order. 00:00:13
And we'll start with an invitation. I'm gonna go ahead and give it and then do the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:16
Sounds good call. Hold our arms. 00:00:21
Had your Father in heaven we're still thankful for. 00:00:24
To stay on this opportunity that we have to meet together and to discuss the needs of our community and the items on this agenda. 00:00:26
We pray that, please. 00:00:33
Bless all of us. 00:00:34
To have this discussion with the spirit of being peacemakers. 00:00:35
And spirit of knowing that we're all neighbors. 00:00:39
Working together with a. 00:00:41
Unified goal of. 00:00:43
Making our community a great place to live for a diverse. 00:00:44
Citizenship. 00:00:49
We're so grateful for. 00:00:50
All of the blessings that. 00:00:52
We received because of the endless we pray for. 00:00:53
And the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:00:56
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. 00:01:03
And do you have like for which it stand? 00:01:07
One nation under. 00:01:09
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:11
Thank you everybody. 00:01:15
Thank you everyone. Have a seat. We are going to move on to item number 2. 00:01:18
Which are presentations and recognitions. 00:01:22
We recognize no one, so we'll move on to Item 3, which are our public comments. 00:01:25
If there are any members of the public with something, umm. 00:01:31
Uh, definitely like today. During this time they may. 00:01:34
To provide comment on any item not on the agenda. 00:01:37
So the time is yours now. 00:01:42
Alright, sorry, I please repeat your name. Daria Evans, uh, Vineyard Residence. 00:01:46
Thank you for letting me come up and ask a couple of questions. 00:01:53
I have umm. 00:01:57
A couple of questions about the Development Review committee. 00:01:59
Do we no longer have a manner? 00:02:02
A member of the Planning Commission on the DRC. 00:02:04
That is my question. 00:02:10
And do approvals for projects. 00:02:11
Uh, usually do. They usually begin in the Planning Commission meeting before they go to the Development Review committee. 00:02:14
Mm-hmm. 00:02:22
And. 00:02:26
And we will have a public hearing later on this evening, is that correct? 00:02:29
There is for. 00:02:33
Item number 5 is a public hearing on. 00:02:37
District energy zoning. All right then those are my questions for now. Thank you. 00:02:40
Alright. 00:02:45
Is there anyone else? 00:02:49
That would like to provide public comment. 00:02:51
At the time. 00:02:53
OK, we are gonna go ahead and close public comment. Thank you everyone. 00:02:56
Umm, staff, if we could prior to moving on to the next agenda item, could you? 00:03:00
Give a very. 00:03:05
Brief explanation of. 00:03:06
What projects go to the DRC? 00:03:08
At what point do they first come to Planning Commission or DRC and then Planning Commission? 00:03:11
Assistance on that? Yeah, absolutely. So the VRC is, is more or less a technical Advisory Board. 00:03:16
It consists of all the department heads of the city and the planning. The Planning Commission chair or their designee is included 00:03:21
on that. 00:03:24
We also understand it's, I think 9:00 AM every other Thursday and that can be kind of hard for for people who have jobs to be able 00:03:27
to attend. 00:03:31
Umm, and so we do try to make online links available as well as we do stream it for the the Planning Commission chair to to watch. 00:03:35
The development Review Committee, as I mentioned, is the technical advisory. 00:03:42
Commission and that. 00:03:46
That's initially the first step that that advert will take prior to coming to. 00:03:47
Planning questions, they'll they'll come in. 00:03:52
With kind of a development. 00:03:54
Proposal will do our initial check in in zoning make sure that it falls within. 00:03:56
Our our zoning code. 00:04:00
And then they'll submit an application, we'll do our review and then we will take that to development review committee. 00:04:01
Umm, and they will essentially give it the nod of approval thing. This is good to go to Planning Commission. 00:04:06
We'll have fire safety there. We'll have building. 00:04:11
Well, correct. See manager. 00:04:14
I'm trying to think. 00:04:16
Who else is on board? 00:04:18
But they essentially just review it and say this, this meets our our standards. Yeah, I mentioned our our criteria and then it'll 00:04:20
go to Planning Commission for approval. It's never. 00:04:24
Planning Commission and then DRG. 00:04:28
Always. If you actually then plan a permission. 00:04:30
Yep, OK. 00:04:34
OK. Thank you for that. 00:04:36
All right, we'll move on to item number. 00:04:39
Anthony brought up one quick question. 00:04:41
The only thing that the DRC is the legislative body over is. 00:04:43
Planning and so when a new development comes in and say. 00:04:47
You know, the next phase of the maples. 00:04:50
They'll bring in the plat that shows all the houses on there and the development review committee. 00:04:52
Because it is a technical document, will. 00:04:56
Be the the approving body on that. 00:04:58
OK. Thank you. 00:05:01
That we're not going to play Mission or City Council, but. 00:05:03
Yeah, no. 00:05:05
OK. 00:05:06
I I do want to just make sure we're talking about items that are on the agenda. 00:05:07
Here and So what I would recommend is there are further questions. 00:05:13
Please. Yeah. 00:05:17
Talk with him. 00:05:18
All right, uh #4 our consent items, uh. 00:05:20
There's only one item on. 00:05:24
The consent calendar, which is the approval of the September 3rd Planning Commission meeting minutes. 00:05:26
Do I have any questions or do we have a motion to approve those minutes? 00:05:31
OK, we have one motion. 00:05:36
Uh, do we have a second? 00:05:38
2nd and we have a second. All in favor say aye. 00:05:40
Alright, any post? 00:05:42
Alright. 00:05:44
The minutes passed unanimously. That lead brings us to item number 5. 00:05:45
Which are our business items? 00:05:49
And we only have one business item. It is a public hearing for the district energy zoning text. 00:05:51
Amendment. 00:05:57
So staff we could start with. 00:05:59
Your presentation. 00:06:01
Yeah, I just have a very brief presentation. This is the zoning text amendment. So this is not approving any kind of site plan or 00:06:02
any infrastructure. 00:06:05
It's essentially just. 00:06:08
Allowing the youth for district energy. 00:06:09
I do have a brief video that I wanted to share I can give. 00:06:12
Does a lot better job than I can do or. 00:06:14
Umm, of explaining how, uh, you talked to be planning on implementing. 00:06:17
District Energy. 00:06:20
3 1/2 minutes long or something like that. 00:06:21
I'll start with that. 00:06:24
Make sure this works. 00:06:26
The energy system is something that's going to withstand the test of time. 00:06:35
Business infrastructure that's going to be multi generational. 00:06:39
District energy is gonna play a significant role. 00:06:43
In the future sustainability of Utah City, we've tried to be really thoughtful about everything that we've done in Utah City, 00:06:46
including what we're doing for our energy systems. 00:06:50
We literally scoured the world for the best experts in this field, and Corex has the expertise for what we've envisioned for this 00:06:54
community from day one. 00:06:58
We work with partners to bring sustainable infrastructure solutions all over North America. People should care because there's a 00:07:02
lot of existing waste energy that's sitting in our environment right now that can be used to apply the thermal energy to the 00:07:07
development. 00:07:11
To be totally candid, I really questioned whether or not we could pull it off and we were thrilled when the answer was yes. 00:07:16
It's a very rare occurrence that we see all the things coming together like we're seeing here at Utah City. 00:07:23
With the ground up development, but one that already had a vision and a plan in place. 00:07:29
In a conventional build you would have in 215 heat pumps on the roof. This can all be repurposed potentially even for like green 00:07:33
amenity stage green rooms. We're not for a different heating system. This would actually be a hot water closet here. And 00:07:39
unfortunately these spaces it isn't it's able to be used for anything else. The trees got more usable floor area for the benefit 00:07:44
of the. 00:07:49
Because Utah City is. 00:07:55
A large enough project, we're able to build something more efficient than the typical building by building energy system. 00:07:57
District energy at the highest level enabled energy sharing from operations that are shedding energy. 00:08:04
We can capture that energy and we can repurpose that and wheel it around through the distribution network. 00:08:10
To share it with buildings that have a heating requirement at that moment in time. 00:08:16
The three primary components are the central energy plant. 00:08:20
The distribution piping system and the energy transfer station. 00:08:23
Is we have a centralized location where we have equipment that's either heating. 00:08:28
Or chilling water. 00:08:33
And then that heated and chilled water. 00:08:35
Is then slowed through a series of pipes. 00:08:37
In a closed loop. 00:08:40
As that water goes into each individual building through what we call the energy transfer station. 00:08:41
It will flow through a set of heat exchangers. 00:08:47
Where our water on the district side circulates through one side of the plate. 00:08:50
And the building water circulates through the other side of the plate. 00:08:54
Those two waters, they never mix. 00:08:58
It's heat transfer. When you have hot things next to cold things, energy naturally transfers, whether we're trying to cool 00:09:01
something or trying to keep something. 00:09:05
We can move that energy back and forth. 00:09:09
Physics. Physics. 00:09:11
It allows us to integrate a lot of different kinds of users. 00:09:14
Institutional uses. 00:09:17
Residential and other commercial uses. 00:09:19
Huntsman Cancer Institute will also be building. 00:09:21
Very large. 00:09:23
Cancer Research and treatment hospital. 00:09:24
We're able to balance both the energy production and the energy needs of those users with the whole system and be more efficient 00:09:26
for everyone. We've been able to realize greenhouse gas emission reductions of upwards of 90%. 00:09:32
You're saving both capital dollars and operating expenses right out the gate. So the people who are going to live here are going 00:09:39
to have the advantages of having a lower environmental impact for where they live and the really, really cost effective heating 00:09:44
and cooling solution for their home. 00:09:48
I think it's an amazing picture. In Utah City. We have all the ingredients to have the successful district energy system. 00:09:53
The district energy system really is in line with the overall. 00:10:00
Which is just. 00:10:04
Really protecting this amazing place. 00:10:05
I think there will be a lot of exciting things coming. 00:10:07
Stay tuned. 00:10:10
OK. I'm sure there's some questions from that and we also do have Bronson with UH-5. We're here to answer some more detailed 00:10:16
questions if there are any. 00:10:19
Umm, and then we Morgan brought it up that that we have received some. 00:10:22
Umm from some members of the council. 00:10:26
About kind of what this approval does and what it doesn't do. 00:10:28
And we do wanna be clear that this does not approve any kind of like nuclear power plant to be built and veneers. This is just for 00:10:30
the the district energy. 00:10:33
Plants that as. 00:10:37
Just like that, you capturing wasted energy. 00:10:39
And using that to, uh, essentially power these buildings. So, uh, block 5 and 6, those are the, the two buildings that are. 00:10:41
Pretty much constructed. 00:10:48
Those will not be utilizing the. 00:10:49
From my understanding right now. 00:10:51
But the rest of the the development has been that. 00:10:53
Been in the plans to utilize the district energy. 00:10:55
Umm, and and the reason for the zoning text amendment is we. 00:10:59
Received a site plan application for the very first temporary district energy plant. 00:11:02
And, uh, because it's not an allowed use, we have to go through this process. 00:11:06
But the the upcoming building. 00:11:10
You know, they have all the infrastructure tied in. 00:11:11
So that once they bring in this modular temporary plant. 00:11:14
That can immediately start delivering. 00:11:16
Uh, uh, power. 00:11:18
To district energy. 00:11:21
So that that's all that I have. 00:11:22
There's any questions, happy to answer them questions to you. Yeah. So this is a public hearing. What I'd like to do is first 00:11:24
we're going to have. 00:11:28
The Planning Commission asked questions. 00:11:32
And then we're going to open up to a public hearing. 00:11:33
And then we'll close the public hearing and then have more. 00:11:36
Discussion, but we're going to go ahead and start with questions. 00:11:39
I have several. 00:11:41
But let's. 00:11:42
Start. I know you have something, so might you ask yours first? 00:11:44
Yeah, just a couple questions you mentioned. 00:11:46
Uh, some. 00:11:50
An existing building is not using this right now. 00:11:51
I'll I'll help answer some Craig Cannon. 00:11:56
Partner at Flagship. 00:12:00
So when we we decided to do this, probably about. 00:12:03
12 to 18 months ago. 00:12:06
And the first two blocks in the grocery store, those are the three building. 00:12:08
Those were already. 00:12:12
Either. 00:12:13
Fully designed or actually under construction? 00:12:14
And so those are, you know, kind of you're more vanilla. 00:12:17
We'll have HVAC units on the roofs and you know the 1st 2 box referring to 102, then 1/22/20, 1:20, then 2:20, then in the grocery 00:12:19
store. 00:12:24
OK. 00:12:29
But really just for clarity. 00:12:30
Umm, it's almost like an off site. 00:12:32
Uh, he didn't come in from, you know. 00:12:35
Water. 00:12:38
Uh, these additional renewer apartments or whatever is going to be, continue to be built. 00:12:39
They don't need a water. 00:12:44
But uh. 00:12:47
The entire place will just be. 00:12:48
Centrally, umm, heated and cold. 00:12:50
That's right. 00:12:54
OK, very cool. 00:12:54
OK, umm. 00:12:58
If you have any questions. 00:13:00
Yeah. Can you confirm? 00:13:03
We'll be David is in breath. 00:13:06
Now I'm going to have three. 00:13:08
Plans for that? Could you pull your mic down? 00:13:11
Sorry, yes, you're going to have three plans, correct? Generating energy. 00:13:14
That that that's correct. So think about it as umm. 00:13:20
You know, normally a building can have HVAC units in the, you know, on the roof. 00:13:23
Commercial buildings could have boilers and chillers. 00:13:28
So those will be housed in there the 1st. 00:13:30
Permanent one likely goes in the hospital. 00:13:33
And then the other two are temporarily planned. 00:13:36
And then as we build out on the. 00:13:39
East side of the tracks. There could be more, but that's the the plan is to have three of them kind of throughout the site. 00:13:41
OK, how? 00:13:47
What percentage of energy? 00:13:48
Will they provide for the area? 00:13:50
Uh, for the project. So think about it as. 00:13:53
Yeah, so, so think about. 00:13:57
The light switch is charging your app, your your your phone. 00:13:58
That electricity will still be powered by Rocky Mountain. 00:14:02
So US tenants will get a Rocky Mountain power bill. 00:14:05
But the heating and cooling so. 00:14:08
You know, domestic hot water and then. 00:14:10
Peter cooling the air in your apartment or? 00:14:12
Condo or business? 00:14:15
Well, 100% be provided by. 00:14:17
The district energy system. 00:14:19
The system has been used for over 150 years. 00:14:27
To give a little bit of background, I mean that video did a really good job and maybe better than I could do. 00:14:30
But I grew up on a house with a radiator. 00:14:36
Well, as far as estimated. 00:14:40
Cost savings or is this a premium? 00:14:42
Yeah, so, so so the idea is. 00:14:46
Is we want to do something that can save money? 00:14:48
We want to do something that is. 00:14:53
Better. 00:14:55
We're more resilient. 00:14:56
You know, less likely to have power issues. 00:14:57
And three. 00:15:00
If we can be good stewards. 00:15:01
Of the beautiful list that we have in this team like. 00:15:03
We want to do all three. 00:15:05
But we weren't going to do something just to be sustainable. That's going to cost everyone. It's going to cost more. So we're 00:15:07
going to save money. 00:15:10
A little bit depends on, you know, how fast all this builds out. 00:15:14
But one of the the things that's really amazing like these first. 00:15:17
These first temporary energy centers are going to have. 00:15:21
A chiller and a boiler. 00:15:24
And we're gonna buy electricity from Rocky Mountain and we're gonna buy, you know, Nat gas. And that will be powered by, by by 00:15:25
Enbridge, just like everybody else. 00:15:29
But eventually. 00:15:34
Huntsman Cancer. 00:15:36
You know you have a radiation machine and you're going to quickly realize I'm not an engineer. 00:15:38
We have a radiation machine and all these other machines. 00:15:42
That are spitting off tons and tons of heat. 00:15:44
And most of what happens in this country is it just goes in the air and it's gone. 00:15:48
Well, the system allows you to basically recapture that. 00:15:52
And the best example, if we drive by every day, there's a big power plant. 00:15:56
Quarter mile north of the project of our town. 00:15:59
Their scheme is released every day. 00:16:02
Because there's a byproduct of heat and then they gotta try and cool it and then they release it as skin. 00:16:05
We're going to work with them and we're going to pull that excess heat. 00:16:10
And that's going to then? 00:16:14
Power most of the city. 00:16:16
Which is a pretty cool solution that should save us money and be really great for everyone. And it's going to save Rocky Mountain 00:16:18
Power. 00:16:21
Money. 00:16:24
Which then? 00:16:25
For all of us who are also Rocky Mountain Power customers, that should eventually make its way to our pocket. 00:16:26
Now how far along or? 00:16:32
Are you in your discussions with Rocky Mount? 00:16:35
Is this? 00:16:39
Yeah, we we've had a lot of discussions with them. 00:16:40
Pulling and employing that heat were several years away, so we don't have anything in writing but. 00:16:43
We're meeting frequently with. 00:16:47
OK. 00:16:51
So I think that's gonna happen. Nothing has ever done until. 00:16:53
Documents or sign, but I think that's going to happen. I think Huntsman. 00:16:56
Like that, that's that's gonna happen. 00:17:00
And, and they'll be part of the system. So there'll be plenty of heat to be pulled from that in the in the medium, the short term. 00:17:02
Is this a giant boiler system and it's going to heat every single place in? 00:17:10
Because I grew up in a school. 00:17:17
That we froze everyone there because the boiler stopped. It didn't work right? Yeah, yeah. So think about it as. 00:17:19
Yeah. So think about it as we have. 00:17:27
Massive, massive pipes. 00:17:29
Underground. 00:17:31
That. 00:17:32
Go and circulate around everything and then get. 00:17:33
Going to get attached into each thing. 00:17:35
And then you have these temporary energy centers that where you're. 00:17:38
Where you're then heating everything from. 00:17:41
And I would say that umm, our partner Corex, who is actually the utility. 00:17:43
You know they would say that this is their business. 00:17:48
And, you know, they're not allowed to have downtime. 00:17:51
And they have to have massive, massive amounts of background of backup. 00:17:55
And partially, that's why you have. 00:18:00
Three different places. 00:18:01
That are doing this. 00:18:03
But that those those types can be. 00:18:04
Hot or cool? 00:18:06
If it technically turn it off and those things could stay hot or cold for hours and hours and hours of backup. 00:18:08
I I know that we froze to the border so. 00:18:17
Like this is never right. 00:18:20
Yeah, so, so, so as the. 00:18:21
That and it freezes. 00:18:25
Like, yeah, so, so as the person who then? 00:18:27
Owns all these buildings. 00:18:31
That that would be a massive risk because if. 00:18:33
We have grocery stores and they they're cold. 00:18:35
No one's going to want to kind of dropping them. 00:18:37
If we have apartments or condos that we've sold or businesses and they don't work. 00:18:39
Or a hospital. 00:18:42
Like Huntsman, Cancer has done a maximum amount of diligence to make sure. 00:18:44
That we have a lot of resiliency and we have a lot of redundancy. 00:18:47
And Corex does this for hospitals, for universities. 00:18:51
For massive amounts of of other cities. 00:18:55
And they're, you know. 00:18:58
Rate is 99.999999999. This is professionally like what they do and they're. 00:19:00
In our opinion, probably the best in the world are doing this. 00:19:05
So. 00:19:07
We spent a lot of time diligent. We've done site business. We feel very comfortable. 00:19:08
But. 00:19:12
We have that risk. 00:19:13
With Rocky Mountain Ren Bridge as well. 00:19:14
You've got individual water. 00:19:19
Yeah. 00:19:27
Alright, Can I ask you OK? Yeah. 00:19:31
Umm, some of these may be for staff, so apologize. 00:19:34
1st, just to reiterate what we're doing and what we're not doing. 00:19:38
This is not amending any development plans. 00:19:42
It is not even going into the design. 00:19:45
It is simply saying. 00:19:48
Is it legal to put this here? We need to put it in the ordinance. 00:19:50
Absolutely. 00:19:53
We are also not the final decision maker. 00:19:54
All we are making a motion. 00:19:56
Tonight or considering a motion tonight for. 00:19:58
Is to recommend approval or not recommend approval? 00:20:01
I wanna make sure that absolutely alright. 00:20:05
So it's. 00:20:08
Also. 00:20:08
It's just a recommendation. 00:20:09
Should the applicant or staff choose to. 00:20:11
Let's say we give a resounding we don't recommend approval. 00:20:14
That doesn't mean we deny it. 00:20:17
It means we don't recommend approval. 00:20:19
The final say is with the City Council. 00:20:21
Right, correct. 00:20:24
OK. 00:20:25
Yeah, and it's a simple way I can show the those actual language here, you know the the text of of what we're. 00:20:25
So it was about 3 questions. So, so as you can see, we, we are, are you stable here? 00:20:31
It lists a different district. 00:20:36
And then down here at the very bottom, you have district energy plants and we just have that as permitted. 00:20:37
And then down here, uh, because of the form, it's code the. 00:20:42
Kind of dictates the design of Utah City. 00:20:46
And then the utilitarian nature of these district energy plants, we felt like we had to put a clause in there saying that. 00:20:48
We don't care about blazing or windows. 00:20:53
For this district energy plant, right and so you can see down here in the. 00:20:55
General requirements for architectural design. We have a clause thing. 00:21:00
They aren't going to have to fall architectural design, but they will have to. 00:21:04
Still go through site plan landscape. 00:21:07
And parking requirements this is chapter dictate. 00:21:09
And if it's helpful I can show you the the mock up. Once again not approving the building but you can kind of see. 00:21:12
What this looks like, it's a very utilitarian. 00:21:17
Kind of utility plan, so. 00:21:20
Would be what would be built. 00:21:22
It's a. It's essentially like. 00:21:24
Modular unit, Yeah, this one is a temporary 1 yet, but when we say plant, people think of a power. 00:21:26
Plant like some. 00:21:32
System. A homework system is exactly what I'm saying. 00:21:34
OK, so. 00:21:39
With that. 00:21:41
There's been or questions. 00:21:41
Those were my introductory questions. 00:21:44
Umm, we already addressed the relation with Rocky Mountain Power. 00:21:46
Umm, thank you. 00:21:52
I now understand why it needs an ordinance. 00:21:55
Not just an amendment. 00:21:57
The DP. 00:21:59
Is there? 00:22:01
A reason why we're being so. 00:22:02
Specific in. 00:22:05
This ordinance. 00:22:06
And I say. 00:22:08
We're proposing language. 00:22:09
That says District energy Plant. 00:22:11
Rather than. 00:22:14
Utility infrastructure. 00:22:15
My concern about being overly specific. 00:22:17
If if they do want. 00:22:20
Put in a backup generator. 00:22:22
Oh, sorry, that's not considered commercial. 00:22:24
I would. 00:22:27
Think and obviously this needs to be backed up by the city attorney. 00:22:29
That, uh. 00:22:33
The spirit of this is a more vague. 00:22:34
Utility infrastructure needs. 00:22:36
Rather than. 00:22:38
District energy plant. 00:22:40
Yeah, that would work, yeah, if you wanted to to recommend that change. 00:22:41
After our public hearing, we'll go with more recommendations. 00:22:46
Like question, you're gonna check it up because I. 00:22:48
Facilities in general, in general because it feels like a utility need rather than a specific use like commercial or residential. 00:22:51
Yeah. I mean, we, we would make want to make sure this is capital thing so that, you know in a few years from now they have 00:22:56
something else they need to bring in as you mentioned a backup generator or whatever. 00:23:00
So we're not having to go through the same process. 00:23:05
We found a micro solar panel that has the Spider-Man power of the sun to do it all. 00:23:07
Someday, so we want to have the ability where someone can put that in without having to get government approval. 00:23:13
Sure. 00:23:19
Umm, my second. 00:23:21
Question with that. 00:23:23
Is because that is. 00:23:25
Specific I would. 00:23:27
Think that we would want a definition? 00:23:29
The more broad you go. 00:23:32
To less need for the definition because it's generally accepted what utility infrastructure is. 00:23:34
But if it is specific that says district energy plant. 00:23:39
The definition section needs to. 00:23:42
Because if you do control F on the municipal code, right, that's in only two areas. 00:23:44
The two that we added, OK, yeah, we, we can. And so I think. 00:23:48
That is important to consider. 00:23:51
OK, now. 00:23:53
To the applicant. 00:23:56
Um, what the power plants look like? We got a good. 00:23:57
Uh, based with it with uh, cash just showed. 00:24:01
Can I get a general idea on what we expect the size to be? 00:24:04
Yes, so, so eventually the permanent ones. 00:24:08
Think about them as. 00:24:11
Like when we build bigger parking structures. 00:24:12
They'll be, you know, half of it will be in the in the corner in the basement, half of it will be on top. 00:24:15
And I think most people will rarely ever see it or even notice it's there. 00:24:20
These these first ones. 00:24:25
Where we're as we build into it until the first one's built at Hudson. 00:24:27
That will. 00:24:30
Be the size of like a couple shipping containers. 00:24:31
And I think. 00:24:34
I don't know if it shows on here. I think Ross has spent a bunch of time thinking through all the landscaping and. 00:24:35
And you know how we paint in a mural to make it look we're trying to make everything beautiful. Come and visit We're. 00:24:39
We're getting there. 00:24:46
But. 00:24:47
We want the place to be a place that everyone is proud of, to walk around on so. 00:24:48
That's the component. 00:24:52
Umm, the code already says that buildings. 00:24:54
Have to follow. 00:24:57
Certain codes consistent with the overall. 00:24:59
Designs that's approved for this district. 00:25:02
Are these considered buildings from? Therefore holds the same standard of? 00:25:04
Screening. 00:25:07
Vegetation. 00:25:08
Other beautification. 00:25:10
So it would just be the architectural requirements. 00:25:11
I'm correct cash that that that without that would be exempted. 00:25:14
So they start to meet the landscape requirements if they're. 00:25:17
Great. It has like a little office. There'd be a parking thing. Umm. 00:25:20
So anything like that, it's still you can see this is the site plan that has been fitted for future. 00:25:24
Review, but you can see that they have proposed. 00:25:31
We just need to make sure it's legal first before. Yep, absolutely. 00:25:33
Yep. So you can see here that they planted every every inch of this that they can. 00:25:37
Yeah. 00:25:41
Yeah, I think between landscaping if. 00:25:42
Uh, eventually there are large walls, there's opportunity for public art murals and the other beautification. 00:25:45
Opportunities that. 00:25:50
OK, I better understand it now. 00:25:52
Thank you. 00:25:55
I'd like to go ahead and open the public hearing. 00:25:56
And so if they're members of the public, please come up. 00:25:59
Uh, provide your public comment. 00:26:02
Often cases these public comments have questions. 00:26:04
To him I will write the questions down and then after the public hearing. 00:26:07
We'll try to address all of them. 00:26:11
So already now. 00:26:14
Right now, sorry, Evans, still a president. Thank you again for the opportunity I have to ask questions. 00:26:16
In this public hearing. 00:26:22
I asked in public comment earlier about the Development Review Committee. 00:26:25
Tomorrow, the Development Review Committee is holding a meeting. 00:26:29
On this. 00:26:34
And that's. 00:26:35
Because you said Planning Commission comes after development review committee tonight is planning. 00:26:37
Commission before development review. 00:26:42
And so. 00:26:44
That's just kind of. 00:26:45
Odd to me, so that's just something I. 00:26:47
Was looking at. 00:26:50
Umm and I'm wondering. 00:26:51
You know Corex needs to seek regulatory approval. 00:26:55
Should not they receive it before the project begins? 00:26:58
Umm, they're supposed to have a certificate of public convenience and necessity. 00:27:03
In hand to operate a district energy utility. 00:27:08
Given by the Utah Public Service Commission. 00:27:11
Before it's built. 00:27:14
So. 00:27:16
Trying to make. 00:27:17
People aware of those things that. 00:27:18
I don't see it have happened yet. 00:27:20
Umm. 00:27:22
I'd like to know where the wasted energy will be coming from. 00:27:26
He's talked about Rocky Mountain Power and Enbridge. 00:27:30
Have we had talks with having had talks with Android yet and what is there? 00:27:35
Uh, response. 00:27:40
And, umm. 00:27:42
Is building 5 and sixes. 00:27:44
They will or will not be. 00:27:47
Retrofitted. 00:27:48
To this. 00:27:50
New proposal. 00:27:52
How are we paying for it? 00:27:54
Is it coming out of the RDA? 00:27:56
How much will it cost? 00:27:59
And can re can resident. 00:28:01
Regulate their heating and cooling. 00:28:03
If it's the one central thing instead of having their own. 00:28:06
Water heater. 00:28:09
And air conditioning unit how will. 00:28:10
Residents be able to cool and heat their homes. 00:28:12
And use that water. 00:28:16
And where is that water? 00:28:18
Coming from. 00:28:19
If it's just captured by steam, I'm sure we'll need a lot more water. Because they want to also. 00:28:20
Safe and cool. They're swimming pools. 00:28:27
Their Wellness centers. 00:28:30
A lot of private amenities that I feel like. 00:28:32
We as the public might possibly be paying for it. 00:28:35
Thank you. 00:28:39
Thank you. 00:28:41
So what we're going to do is have all public comment. 00:28:42
Unless you wanna provide comment as a. 00:28:45
Public. 00:28:47
September, but I will give the applicant time to answer. 00:28:48
All questions. 00:28:51
After I. 00:28:53
Personally would rather after because then you can answer all at once rather than. 00:28:55
Use your time now. 00:28:59
OK, I'm also writing them down so you should be good. 00:29:01
All right, anyone else from the public? 00:29:04
Hi, David Larae, Rd. 00:29:11
Thank you for. 00:29:15
Serious. 00:29:16
First question is the. 00:29:17
Umm, these are supposed to close systems. I heard that. 00:29:19
And so they're, uh, and they're, they're starting with a, a power. 00:29:22
Plant that. 00:29:25
Not. 00:29:27
From recaptured energy that will be. 00:29:27
You know, creating their own heat. 00:29:29
And then so forth at first, but and and I suspect that. 00:29:31
It's me from Rocky Mountain Power or from the. 00:29:34
From the gas company I'd like to have clarification. House will still work. 00:29:36
And then as I understand it, is a closed system. 00:29:40
They're at the plant it it can do. 00:29:42
He exchanged the heat. The water separate system is going to travel to the. 00:29:45
Buildings. 00:29:49
And then, uh, I I'm not clear about how to. 00:29:50
How the transfer happens on the building end? 00:29:53
Other, uh, that other suppose. 00:29:55
Of the hardware there I I suppose. 00:29:57
That will allow for heat transfer or is that is that the same water gonna be used? 00:29:59
The buildings and and exactly how will it be controlled? 00:30:03
On individual basis. I've already asked about that. I'm curious how how that works. 00:30:07
With the system. 00:30:11
Umm. I'm also curious to know what the uh. 00:30:12
This is just how those. 00:30:17
Systems interact. 00:30:18
And so when? 00:30:20
Our next question is when you, when you, when you do try to recapture energy, whether it be from the, uh. 00:30:21
The hospital. 00:30:25
How are you? 00:30:26
Collect energy from radiation or whatever that requires specialized equipment. 00:30:28
Uh, not just the regular normal equipment they'll be using. So that would that be. 00:30:32
I'll be coordinated with the hospital and so forth. What? What? 00:30:36
Procedures. 00:30:39
To, uh, coordinate that and and. 00:30:40
Who bears the expensive installation and all that sort of stuff have been specialized equipment. 00:30:43
And when we move to the. 00:30:48
Uh, to try to recapture energy for the power plant. 00:30:49
Again. 00:30:51
That requires additional hardware. 00:30:52
And uh. 00:30:55
You have to pipe up that power in fear from up there. 00:30:56
So how how is that to be funded? How does be taken care of? What were the plans for that? 00:30:59
Just curious, I understand we're probably getting. 00:31:03
The carton floors a little bit we're talking about Orange would allow this now, but. 00:31:05
Try to get it. 00:31:09
An idea what this would be like to make sure that uh. 00:31:10
New Orleans. 00:31:14
Is crafted properly. 00:31:15
So anyway, just. 00:31:16
Whatever can be done to give us some engineering? 00:31:17
Engineering overview of how that's all going to work so that we can understand it better. 00:31:20
I think would be helpful. 00:31:23
Uh, Elsie? 00:31:25
As we talk about the new ordinance. 00:31:25
Thank you. 00:31:28
How are you doing? 00:31:38
Dylan, just a few questions. 00:31:40
Um, who is going to maintain this piping? 00:31:43
It's gonna be in SO. 00:31:46
You know, I assume it has to be just like every other. 00:31:49
Sewer plumbing pipes. 00:31:53
Who? Who maintains it? 00:31:56
And who pays? 00:31:58
Um, and I recall Huntsman's already broken ground for their center, correct? 00:31:59
So I'm assuming since. 00:32:05
Lots of really nice. 00:32:07
Pictures. 00:32:08
That they have already designed that building. Have they designed it with this in mind? 00:32:10
Requiring the piping already. 00:32:14
Um, I saw a whole bunch of parking. I assume that was just. 00:32:17
For lux but. 00:32:22
How many people are gonna be? 00:32:23
Parking to go to this. 00:32:25
Center um. 00:32:28
You can tell me that you're wrong and it was just worth the pictures. 00:32:30
That's fine, I get it. 00:32:33
Um. 00:32:34
And. 00:32:37
Torex has already posted a job. 00:32:40
Project Manager, I'm in here. 00:32:43
So they gotta hire them and then decide we're gonna. 00:32:47
Sorry, what was that? 00:32:51
Forex has already posted the job position for our project manager. 00:32:52
So are we getting ahead of ourselves? 00:32:57
Alright, I'm just gonna be in training. 00:33:00
Hold on a second, OK? 00:33:04
Thanks. 00:33:06
OK. 00:33:06
OK, are there any other? 00:33:10
Public. 00:33:13
OK, sorry, one more. 00:33:16
One more. 00:33:18
I would suggest that. 00:33:20
Staff and Planning Commission checks. 00:33:22
How still 350? 00:33:25
Co sponsored by Val Peterson and. 00:33:27
Mark, Mike Mattel or Matt Mcel? 00:33:30
Whichever one it is. 00:33:33
About district energy. 00:33:34
What else? Thank you. 00:33:36
OK. 00:33:38
Thank you. 00:33:41
OK. 00:33:43
Any more comments? 00:33:45
OK, then we're going to close the public hearing. 00:33:47
Umm, I would like to invite our applicant back up. I I'm going to try and go over as many of these as possible. 00:33:50
Rather than be saying. 00:33:57
We'll go on answer one, answer 1. 00:34:00
Answer if that worked. 00:34:03
For, you know, before we do. 00:34:05
One of the things I do want to mention. 00:34:07
Is several of the public comments and several of the questions. 00:34:09
Raised fault in the audience as well as here. 00:34:13
UMM seems to be more on the business practice. 00:34:16
Rather than what would be in the ordinance. 00:34:19
Umm, I. 00:34:21
If the applicant wants to answer those questions, they're welcome to. I just wanna make it a note. 00:34:23
I'm not going to consider whatever their business strategy as part of this decision making. Whatever they do, that's a business 00:34:27
decision frankly is up to them and I don't know if it's. 00:34:32
Appropriate for us to legislate that. 00:34:37
So with that, if you want to come up. 00:34:40
We could start. Umm, this might be a staff question about the DRC agenda. 00:34:43
Where there's an agenda item. 00:34:49
With this. 00:34:50
Uh, could you speak why it is on the? 00:34:52
Yeah, great, great question. So BRC does not approve any site plans. They essentially give the the non approval that this meets 00:34:54
all of their their criteria and we just wanted to get this ahead of. 00:34:59
The DRC. 00:35:04
All eyes on this to make sure that the site plan meets. 00:35:05
Fire, you know, and. 00:35:08
That their regulations as well building. 00:35:09
But but definitely. 00:35:11
If the you know, in the end, the City Council does deny this. 00:35:12
Then we have the meeting for nothing tomorrow. It's. 00:35:15
OK, so. 00:35:18
Applicant and DRC are proceeding at risk if you will. 00:35:20
But it is. 00:35:25
Anyway, just providing an opinion, not an approval. Great. Thanks Jasmine, but. 00:35:26
That Daria had mentioned that tip that it's supposed to go to DRC 1st and that's that's right that leave it 2 separate 00:35:31
applications. This is a text amendment to zoning. 00:35:35
For the site plan is going to BRC, if the zoning is approved then it'll move it forward to Planning Commission, so eventually to 00:35:39
this body. 00:35:43
Understood. 00:35:47
OK, umm. 00:35:47
Uh, other question was shouldn't approval happen for the project? Again? You just address that umm applicant if you could. 00:35:50
What construction has already? 00:35:57
Started. 00:35:58
And has. 00:35:59
This then taken into account. 00:36:01
Uh, construction. 00:36:03
At the district in general, the buildings that are already. Yeah. So the buildings you feel. 00:36:05
If you look up there there's 2 buildings that are being framed right now? 00:36:10
And those have been planned to be on the district energy plan. 00:36:13
They have been designed to do so. 00:36:17
Umm and I. 00:36:19
The lead We've actually started laying pipes. 00:36:20
We're about to certainly in types for the district energy piping system. 00:36:23
OK. And fully aware that you're doing that at risk? 00:36:26
Yeah, we're doing that a real few and I would just say that. 00:36:30
Our our thought is. 00:36:32
What we're going to do the system, I think the approval tonight. 00:36:33
Is whether or not we can have this temporary energy. 00:36:37
Box the approval tonight and at City Council. 00:36:39
This is allowed. We can. 00:36:43
In course, and I think this is your, your first question is. 00:36:45
Course is in the process right now. They're regulated utility in many states in Canada. 00:36:48
Uh, in the CPU CPCM process. 00:36:52
We're hoping that that gets approved here in the next few months. 00:36:55
But there's also. 00:36:59
We have signed a lease with them in the case that they they are not approved by them that they can still provide that. 00:37:00
You know, we're working with all the right lawyers and the government to. 00:37:05
To make that umm but as as a single customer. 00:37:08
We're allowed to do that, is my understanding of Jeff Griffin, I think who works, of course, is on the phone. 00:37:12
But I have them over here. That's neither. 00:37:16
But during that process, we think before it, it turns on. 00:37:19
We'll have that all approved. 00:37:23
Alright. 00:37:25
There's a question of. 00:37:27
The quote UN quote wasted energy where that would be coming from. Could you see that? Yeah. So, so so we think about the district 00:37:28
energy is is kind of. 00:37:32
Energy or power agnostic? 00:37:37
So the the source of the energy can come from anywhere. 00:37:39
So we spent a bunch of time like looking into what's the best. 00:37:43
We looked at geothermal. 00:37:46
You just need to keep. 00:37:47
And so we looked at geothermal going into drilling holes and. 00:37:49
Just far in general is a huge. 00:37:52
Has a a bunch of places where general thermal makes sense. 00:37:54
You obviously can just. 00:37:57
Buy natural gas power from Enbridge. 00:37:59
You can just buy electricity from Rocky Mountain, of which we will do. 00:38:02
To some degree. 00:38:05
But what we figured out was that. 00:38:07
So much waste. 00:38:08
From the hospital. 00:38:09
And from Rocky Mountain's power plant, it's right there. 00:38:10
That over time. 00:38:13
We hope that. 00:38:15
Substantially all of the. 00:38:16
And the energy will come from those two places. 00:38:18
But it's in three years or 10 years. 00:38:21
There's something that new and better, some other technology. 00:38:24
You can actually plug that in. 00:38:26
And use that to then heat and cool. 00:38:28
The pipes that are underground. 00:38:30
Great. Thank you. 00:38:32
Umm, you had already discussed about the conversations and relationship with Rocky Mountain Power. Have similar conversations 00:38:34
happened with Enbridge? 00:38:37
Yeah, so, so, so. 00:38:41
Enbridge, we've talked with them. 00:38:42
Umm, that we're gonna be. 00:38:44
We're a customer of theirs. We will be a customer there. We're a customer and. 00:38:48
A lot of the homes and developments that we do. 00:38:52
I don't know if this is the perfect analogy, but. 00:38:55
If, if, if, if they're if they're maverick. 00:38:57
And we buy a car that's a hybrid, and we're gonna buy less. 00:39:00
Like and. 00:39:03
Obviously that's. 00:39:04
A smaller customer for them. 00:39:06
But. 00:39:08
You know. 00:39:09
Otherwise. 00:39:09
We're a big customer, We'll believe the customer, but. 00:39:10
We need the better less fuel from Maverick or from Enbridge because. 00:39:12
We're going to pull feisty. 00:39:15
Does that make sense? 00:39:17
Yes it does. 00:39:19
Add a little bit to that so. 00:39:20
Johnson Kaplan with the developer. 00:39:22
We so we have met with. 00:39:25
Enbridge Beverly Eldridge is our designer in the Vineyard area. 00:39:26
So she's currently working on the plans to get. 00:39:32
Natural gas up to this plant area. 00:39:34
Along with all of the other streets that we're building. 00:39:36
Up toward the north to Huntsman. 00:39:39
So there will be natural gas. 00:39:42
Accessible by all the buildings. 00:39:44
By the. 00:39:46
Energy Plant. 00:39:47
And by Hudson, so that. 00:39:48
That utility will still be. 00:39:51
In demand, we'll still need that. 00:39:53
Enbridge has done their evaluation of like how? 00:39:55
Of the demand that that we have in the overall Utah City project. 00:39:58
And they are. 00:40:02
They have a capacity to provide all of that. 00:40:04
To the project. 00:40:07
Good. Thank you. 00:40:09
Umm, there's a question about, uh. 00:40:10
Who's eventually paying? 00:40:13
For this, whether this is going to be part of the RDA, the developer is including all this. 00:40:14
Or if this is somehow going to pass on to the residents that currently live in? Yeah, perfect. So. 00:40:19
My understanding generally is how utilities work. 00:40:25
The utility is going to charge David. 00:40:27
Based on the actual cost, you know, the fuel that's going to be sent to him. 00:40:30
Plus some component of all of the capital costs to build. 00:40:34
Their whole system. 00:40:38
That is similar. 00:40:39
Course is going to come and put in capital and build a system. 00:40:41
And then they're going to charge just us. 00:40:44
It shouldn't affect anyone who lives. 00:40:46
Outside of the project. 00:40:48
And they're gonna charge us for the energy that we use. 00:40:50
And they're going to amortize their capital costs. 00:40:53
It will not so. 00:40:55
So us and Corex are paying for everything. 00:40:57
And it will not be reimbursed. 00:40:59
By the RDA. 00:41:01
Should not impact anyone other than. 00:41:02
Over time as we save rocky power. 00:41:04
And and money. 00:41:06
Hopefully that accrues to the benefit of Iran, although. 00:41:07
It's probably small when you really think about it, and power prices are probably only going one way. 00:41:11
Unfortunately. 00:41:15
OK, umm, there's a question if this is going to impact how people, uh, generally control. 00:41:17
Yeah, great question. Yeah, great question. So. 00:41:23
You have central, you have, you have these power plants, but. 00:41:26
Every business owner. Every condo or town homeowner. 00:41:29
Every apartment. 00:41:32
Has a thermostat and you can. 00:41:34
Frankenstein 80 in the summer. 00:41:36
On Winter 60. 00:41:38
You have full control and you pay for the. 00:41:40
Energy that you use. 00:41:42
It's metered just like any other energy provider. That's correct. OK. 00:41:43
Umm, I can go in. 00:41:47
To my water heater right now. 00:41:50
And say Maxheat is. 00:41:52
Yeah, well, residents be able to do the same. Well, you won't. 00:41:54
Have a water you know in that picture like. 00:41:58
In our first ability to go through, there's a big hot water heater. You won't have that. 00:42:00
But yeah, you can. 00:42:04
I'll just be done at the shower level rather than. That's exactly right. Understood. 00:42:05
Umm, for what it's worth. 00:42:09
Most tenants. 00:42:12
A lot of property managers. 00:42:13
Well, make sure tenants don't have access to things like the water heater anyway. 00:42:15
In order for. 00:42:19
Just risk control anyway so. 00:42:21
Um, there's a question. 00:42:25
Also. 00:42:28
About the recent House bill about district energy that may be more for. 00:42:30
The city attorney. 00:42:35
Uh, I I'm just going to make a recommendation that before this goes to. 00:42:37
City Council. 00:42:41
Uh, the city attorney offers an opinion. 00:42:42
Specifically on that and share it at the City Council meeting. If you have something add on that, you're welcome to. 00:42:45
Yeah, so, so, so currently. 00:42:49
Before. 00:42:52
March. 00:42:52
Gifts FirstEnergy, Cedial. 00:42:54
Was regulated by the state. 00:42:56
And we actually just said. 00:42:58
We actually want. 00:42:59
District energy in the state directly. 00:43:00
Just heating and coin. 00:43:02
So that was the major change in that bill. 00:43:04
And we actually. 00:43:06
We've pushed for that with with. 00:43:07
Without and others. 00:43:10
That we were behind that. 00:43:11
OK umm and I think she have one more question about water. Where is the water coming from? 00:43:12
And then this I think a little bit related to a question that you had. 00:43:17
So think about it as like there's a circular pipe. 00:43:20
It won't be circular. 00:43:23
And and and that pipe will be filled with water. 00:43:24
And so. 00:43:26
And then otherwise and then it goes into each building. 00:43:27
And as a kind of video, it doesn't ever. The water doesn't mix. 00:43:31
So this water will stay in the in the pipes. 00:43:34
Forever. 00:43:37
What the types are really thick? 00:43:38
And they they. 00:43:41
They keep their feet. 00:43:42
An extremely high efficiency. 00:43:44
Which makes. 00:43:46
You know that's how this works. It works really well because. 00:43:47
But that water Never actually. 00:43:50
Options. It doesn't contaminate one way or the other. 00:43:51
And so the residents. 00:43:54
You run your shower for 9 hours a day. That's no different if you're on district energy. 00:43:56
Or if you're. 00:44:01
If you're not on mission techniques. 00:44:02
We're going to have to pay and we'll buy the watersheds to have the water that goes through the pipe. 00:44:04
But there's not. 00:44:08
There's not a bunch of water loss that we're just wasting every day because it's tissue. 00:44:09
On a normal day, it's going to be the exact same. 00:44:14
If you're on or off. 00:44:17
Does that make sense? 00:44:19
Yeah, umm. 00:44:20
If there are further questions, yeah, if there are further questions, I would encourage you to talk later. 00:44:21
Umm, because we're probably only halfway through the questions that were raised during public, uh, here. 00:44:26
Umm, you're good. 00:44:31
Umm, staff and Planning Commission. OK, we talked about the district bill, uh. 00:44:32
It was also asked. 00:44:38
Are the the? 00:44:39
Staff report. 00:44:41
Uh, reference. 00:44:42
3. 00:44:43
Proposed. 00:44:44
Umm, the ordinance. 00:44:46
Doesn't go into any Max or any cap or any minimum there. 00:44:48
Uh, but out of curiosity. 00:44:51
Engineering Do we believe that three plants are sufficient? 00:44:53
We do. We hope that we the more plants that are built, there's more capital costs. 00:44:57
And then that's just we're going to pay that as the tenant. 00:45:02
So we hope that's sufficient. 00:45:04
We hope. 00:45:06
That the stuff on the other side of the tracks, UVU and others other medical uses and other things that go on there will also be 00:45:07
on the system. 00:45:10
And then you could have one or two over there as well. 00:45:14
And we hope that scale. 00:45:17
Brings cost down, as it should. 00:45:18
OK, great. 00:45:20
Umm. There are questions about uh. 00:45:22
How that transfer happens kind of on the building end? 00:45:24
And then when does this transfer happen? Maybe with the current provider and so? 00:45:28
Let's say the grocery store opens before this is up and running. 00:45:32
Um, how is it like when you get a solar panel? 00:45:35
It's just you kind of flip a switch and then it just starts being part of the system. 00:45:39
Good question, SO. 00:45:44
The grocery store getting it's five. The first two buildings, 1:20 and 2:20 in the grocery store are not on the system. 00:45:45
There is potential. 00:45:51
In the future that you could come back and retrofit things. 00:45:52
You know you have. 00:45:56
500 HVAC units on the roof, those are all going to break and then they're going to be a bunch of capital costs are going to change 00:45:57
that and it might make sense in the future. 00:46:01
To go and say, OK, we're gonna take this out at this time, we're gonna retrofit it. 00:46:04
I don't know. 00:46:08
But. 00:46:09
There's but, but otherwise we're not planning on. 00:46:10
The first buildings that open with district energy, the print should be running. And so there shouldn't be a flood. It should just 00:46:13
be you're up, you're running. 00:46:16
You know district energy from day one. 00:46:19
OK, but the two buildings are up right now. 00:46:21
Right now. 00:46:23
Don't have a plan, don't have a plan. I mean, we've thought about it retrofitting, but. 00:46:24
We'll see 8 to 10 years when those units all start. 00:46:28
Do you anticipate any uh. 00:46:31
Specialized equipment. 00:46:34
To be within each of these units, whether they're commercial units or residential. Yeah, for sure. And then I think this is part 00:46:36
of your question about. 00:46:38
Uh, kind of how that transfer happens. 00:46:41
And I'm not an engineer, I was an accountant in my background. 00:46:44
But my understanding is this hot water comes in, it comes into the building. 00:46:47
And like the corner? 00:46:51
Just think about it, almost a utility room in the corner of each building. 00:46:53
And there's and literally like. 00:46:56
They have this kind of science. It's almost like. 00:46:58
A forklift. It's like a sled that is manufactured someone else. 00:47:00
Popped in. 00:47:03
And and it's an energy transfer system. 00:47:05
And somehow they can pull the heat. 00:47:08
Or they can pull the coolness. 00:47:11
And then that then goes into a system of pipes that then flows through to each of the apartment units. 00:47:12
And it's really cool. 00:47:18
And if you ask more questions, I'll give our guys on the phone to explain it to you. 00:47:20
But I'm not an engineer, but that's I think how it works. 00:47:24
OK, but so you'll see in. 00:47:27
You look too many like. 00:47:28
In the base of those first two buildings. 00:47:30
There's a school energy transfer station. I don't think those those. 00:47:31
Systems or the the sled. 00:47:34
Has actually popped and been put in. 00:47:36
But over the next six or nine months and once it's up. 00:47:38
We'll go and show you. 00:47:41
It's probably pretty cool. This is, uh, nice to hear. Thank you. Just, uh, to add on to that, it's the first flaw to my dynamics. 00:47:42
The time of refresh my memory that the law of conservation energy. 00:47:50
So I think my professor who has probably long passed away with either this point of inference that has only got off the top I had. 00:47:53
OK. And then and then about specialized equipment, the answer is for sure. 00:48:01
And Quartz is doing this with a similar type of power plant up in Washington. 00:48:05
And somehow you you won't leave the utility. 00:48:10
We'll pay for it and then, you know, as a tenant, they're gonna make us pay for it. 00:48:14
But they'll put in pipes that will go in. 00:48:17
And we've talked to the plant managers and, you know, they want to as minimally invasive as possible because they don't want us in 00:48:19
their grill. 00:48:22
But you can go in. 00:48:25
You could apply you have some type of energy transfer station there. It pulled the heat. 00:48:27
And then goes in and heats up the rest of the pipe. 00:48:30
And there's definitely specialized equipment. I couldn't tell you what it is. 00:48:33
But. 00:48:37
You know, you have to have an agreement and they're gonna be very careful and same thing with us and like. 00:48:38
We're gonna have to have the right professional engineers designed it and do it. 00:48:42
OK. Thank you. 00:48:46
Umm, what I think is important. There's also the question of engineering overview. 00:48:48
Tonight. 00:48:51
We're looking at an ordinance. 00:48:52
Before any of this goes in. 00:48:54
There's building permit. Building permits require. 00:48:55
Very strict, heavy degree of engineering. Review before anything goes on the ground to make sure that it is safe, that it's going 00:48:58
to function appropriately. 00:49:01
So I. 00:49:05
Think that. 00:49:07
Spend adjust. 00:49:08
Maintenance of the typing that goes in. Is that something that's essentially accepted by the city, a utility provider, the special 00:49:10
district? 00:49:14
Yeah, so so. 00:49:17
Corex Utility Company will own the pipe and they will maintain it. 00:49:19
That's at their expense. 00:49:22
We will bear the brunt, but these pipes are specially designed to. 00:49:24
To last 50 plus years. 00:49:28
Great. And will these plant? 00:49:30
The places of employment, uh, will they require any parking? 00:49:32
Maybe if you could weigh in first on. 00:49:37
What you anticipate? 00:49:39
Uh, attendance to be with people and then city staff can weigh in on whether there's the what the parking requirement, if there is 00:49:41
one. 00:49:44
Jeff, can you hear us all right? 00:49:52
Yeah, I can hear, Sir, I mean. 00:49:57
Yes, I'm here. I can hear you alright. 00:49:59
OK, Jeff here now. 00:50:01
Umm, still look. 00:50:03
You think they're going to hire people they've hired? They've hired their first employee, sure. 00:50:06
And there will be a team of. 00:50:10
Of engineers and maintenance staff. 00:50:11
It's not very many people. 00:50:14
We will provide the parking and we're gonna provide more parking and. 00:50:16
Anyone's ever seen it? 00:50:19
We don't have enough parking it. 00:50:21
Not good for us. 00:50:23
So. 00:50:24
So my my I don't know the number of jobs. 00:50:26
But they're hiring another. They've hired one person. They're looking for a plant manager effectively. 00:50:30
So on that and. 00:50:34
We're going to we'll provide them parking. Yeah. My, my main question was. 00:50:35
Kind of piggybacking on the question that Terry asked. 00:50:40
Is lift stations. 00:50:42
For instance. 00:50:44
Don't necessarily need. 00:50:45
A permanent parking spot because it doesn't have someone there at all times, but when someone needs to go in and check in. 00:50:47
Or is it safe for them? 00:50:54
Would you say this operates the same as the lift station would? 00:50:55
Just for general maintenance. 00:50:58
Would go in and hop in rather than. 00:51:00
Here's my full time job back at the. 00:51:02
Plant on 5th. 00:51:04
I mean it'll be a full time job. 00:51:06
The plant manager in things at each of these locations, I don't know if we'll be there 24/7 because they can their system let them 00:51:08
monitor it remotely. 00:51:12
But I mean, Jeff. 00:51:16
You wanna try talking? 00:51:18
You can answer that question. 00:51:21
Sure, if you guys can. 00:51:25
Happy to. 00:51:26
Jump in here. 00:51:27
I hear you. Great. 00:51:29
Yeah, the really the question isn't whether Corex is hiring employees. We love that you're hiring employees. We love more jobs for 00:51:30
the community. 00:51:34
The the question is whether each of these plants is going to be staffed full time. 00:51:38
Or. 00:51:43
If it's like a lift station and any kind of sewer system where they're just checked on. 00:51:44
Regularly. 00:51:49
So the. 00:51:52
The permanent facilities will. 00:51:53
Have uh staffing. 00:51:55
Umm, not necessarily. 00:51:57
24/7. 00:51:59
Uh, but there will be, you know. 00:52:01
Uh, uh. 00:52:03
8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday. Friday, we'll have people on site. 00:52:04
Got it. 00:52:08
And then and then all of the facilities, even the temporary. 00:52:09
Facility we're talking about here. 00:52:12
Which is. 00:52:15
Kind of like what you can see in my background here. Umm. 00:52:15
Will be uh. 00:52:19
Monitored 24/7 through our remote operation center. 00:52:20
Understood. 00:52:25
OK. Thank you. 00:52:26
Uh, for city staff. 00:52:27
Umm, our parking code has all the different uses and how we determine the parking for that. Could you just weigh in on how you 00:52:29
would? 00:52:33
Paint the parking requirement be determined for a use like this. 00:52:37
Um, I cash if you can look at under, under utility, typically we're going to find whatever the closest. 00:52:42
You said umm and and in a case where there is not a specific use requirement then. 00:52:49
We would have the applicant provide like in their narrative for their application, providing like their business operations. 00:52:55
Then it's addressed specifically in the development plan. Yeah, yeah. And so right now then it's either temporary. 00:53:01
Facilities and they're going to be controlled by like one person driving between the three, like our public works guys. 00:53:07
Their office. 00:53:12
For the most part is the truck. 00:53:13
And so if, if, if that's a similar thing, then umm, like there is street parking is like we, we are flexible on and this is not 00:53:15
going to be like an awesome. 00:53:18
Fill in. OK, permanent facility. Just sounds like they're gonna have more, umm, permanent. 00:53:22
Employees like an 8 to 5. 00:53:26
OK. 00:53:30
That's just to that point, that site plan that cash had pulled up. 00:53:31
The That plant is located in a parking lot. 00:53:36
That's umm. 00:53:39
It's associated with one of the residential buildings. 00:53:41
So. 00:53:43
It's kind of on the edge of that parking lot, so there will be a lot of parking. 00:53:44
For the residential side? 00:53:49
Mm-hmm. And we'll take however many. 00:53:51
Stalls we need for. 00:53:53
The plant will add that many to. 00:53:54
That parking lot to. 00:53:57
Accommodate for it, but it is it's sitting. 00:53:58
Adjacent to a parking lot that will be built. 00:54:01
Wonderful. Thank you, narrator. 00:54:04
Date during the day. 00:54:05
When there would be stuff there that's usually in parking lots or more empty. 00:54:07
Compared to night time. 00:54:11
Thank you. Umm, and then the last question about Corex posting, uh, project manager position. 00:54:13
There's several positions. 00:54:17
Umm, I think that was addressed already. 00:54:18
With that, and I believe that's a business decision. 00:54:22
Thank you. 00:54:26
I know those were a lot of questions and I'm sure there are members of the public that will have additional questions. 00:54:27
Uh, what I would encourage. 00:54:32
Uh, any of our residents, whether listening from home or here, uh, to please. 00:54:34
Continue reaching out. 00:54:39
Stuff. I know these applicants. 00:54:41
I'd like to answer questions too. 00:54:43
And so, umm. 00:54:44
Please don't feel like oh I. 00:54:46
Wasn't hurt today. We want to make sure you're heard. Please continue. 00:54:48
Asking your questions and happy. 00:54:51
Conversation. Umm. 00:54:53
Uh, I'm sure all of us have some thoughts and comments before we entertain any kind of motion for a recommendation or adjustment. 00:54:56
I want to give everyone on. 00:55:02
Uh, here at the Diet, it's an opportunity to share an opinion or ask further questions. 00:55:04
So does anyone have anything in particular that they haven't already said? 00:55:09
No, Appreciate it. 00:55:14
OK. Well, I'll share. 00:55:17
Mind that's OK. 00:55:19
Umm, that I. 00:55:21
Do believe that a lot of what we've discussed. 00:55:23
Is more of a business decision rather than a legislative 1 and we're being asked to weigh in on a. 00:55:26
Legislative. 00:55:31
Ordinance ultimately. 00:55:33
Should be. 00:55:34
I don't see an issue. 00:55:36
With the being permitted as to the where, how, when, how many, How does it work? 00:55:37
I fully believe all those answers should. 00:55:42
All of those questions should be answered. 00:55:45
But what we're asked to do right now is. 00:55:48
Provide an ordinance letter. We would even permit this. 00:55:50
And I think it's totally appropriate for these to be permitted. 00:55:53
Once we apply. 00:55:56
For permit. 00:55:57
That's when you get into, well, what are all the effects going to be and how are you mitigating side effects? 00:56:00
That effects, but that's not within our purview tonight. 00:56:05
What is within our preview? 00:56:08
Purview, The language of the ordinance. 00:56:10
And I do think we need to be a bit more broad and provide definitions. 00:56:12
And so. 00:56:16
I think as a district. 00:56:17
Some kind of utility infrastructure? 00:56:18
Uh, I think it's appropriate. 00:56:21
And if we do insist and the attorney insists? 00:56:22
On having a central energy plant. 00:56:25
Specifically mentioned somewhere in the. 00:56:29
And I think your definition is necessary. 00:56:31
Yeah, and we're, umm, I, I, I know that there's definitely a side plan on that. I ask him. I'd like to move forward. However, we 00:56:33
do have time. 00:56:37
And so if, if uh, if EB were happy to, umm, get with our with. 00:56:40
Kind of get get get the code written as you like, we can bring it back. 00:56:46
And so it's just it's just a matter of it's needed when it comes to site plan. I have no issue with them. 00:56:50
You can apply for anything, whether it's permitted or not. There's nothing wrong with. 00:56:55
Submitting an application. 00:56:59
Uh, we're just fully aware that it's at risk. We can't. 00:57:01
Approve any site plan until it's. 00:57:04
Also approved in an ordinance by both his body and the City Council. 00:57:06
So I think that's a decision of the applicant. We don't need to weigh in on whether people are allowed to submit applications or 00:57:09
not. 00:57:11
Yeah, I would say that if we did want to do a definition, we would have to re notice and do a new public hearing just because. 00:57:14
We're now changing new section of code. 00:57:20
That we haven't touched or the the original notice didn't mention. 00:57:21
Um, and but once again, we're happy to do that and we can, you know, definitely do re noticing in the new public hearing. 00:57:25
I or or as you mentioned, we could just. 00:57:32
Create a more broader you know, change it from district energy to district utility infrastructure. 00:57:34
Let me do that, but up to the Commission. 00:57:40
I think. 00:57:42
Since all we're doing is providing a recommendation. 00:57:43
If we were to conditionally. 00:57:45
Approve or recommend approval. 00:57:47
That should give you. 00:57:49
Liquor Room to modify language in the ordinance. 00:57:51
Umm, I'm not an attorney or. 00:57:54
Confirm that I um. 00:57:55
I just know 99% of the questions I have tonight. 00:57:57
Where What is this? 00:58:00
And that can be addressed in the definition. 00:58:02
OK, umm. 00:58:04
Any other comments? 00:58:08
OK, OK. 00:58:10
I myself don't. 00:58:16
Problem. 00:58:17
With the exception of the one condition. 00:58:18
Moving this forward because as Chairman said, this is. 00:58:21
This is the beginning of the journey. 00:58:26
There is a lot. 00:58:28
Of work to do between now and having something in the ground. 00:58:30
So we're not. 00:58:34
Has been said. We're not approving anything. 00:58:38
Were simply recommending. 00:58:41
OK, umm, if it's OK, I would like to go ahead and make a motion. 00:58:43
Umm, but with it. 00:58:48
Just the strong emphasis. 00:58:51
Of. 00:58:53
We as human beings want to know the answers. 00:58:55
Everything. 00:58:59
Um, I maybe that's just because we have Wikipedia on our phones now and we have access to everything. 00:59:00
This is an ordinance that's so limited. 00:59:06
And it's really. 00:59:08
I hope. 00:59:09
That the City Council can understand. 00:59:11
What this is and what this isn't? 00:59:13
And not get bogged down in a. 00:59:15
Well, before I approve the ordinance, what color is the wall going to be? 00:59:17
You know we aren't gonna know the answers to all of those yet. Those come at the appropriate stages. 00:59:20
Just like you were saying. 00:59:26
So with that, I'm going to make my motion. 00:59:27
To recommend approval. 00:59:29
Of the. 00:59:31
Ordinance as proposed with the. 00:59:32
Section or the condition. 00:59:34
That a definition is added to provide more context. 00:59:36
On what a district energy plant is. 00:59:40
Umm, and. 00:59:43
That. 00:59:45
The entry in the table as to permitted uses. That was written more broadly to just allow for utility infrastructure. 00:59:47
So there's two conditions there. 00:59:55
Umm, so that's my motion. Is there a second? 00:59:57
OK, a second. OK, Yeah. 01:00:02
All in favor say aye. 01:00:05
Uh, any opposed? 01:00:06
OK, there you go. It's recommended. 01:00:09
Unanimously. 01:00:11
Yeah, what's the thing on? 01:00:12
You should do real quick. 01:00:14
So if you if you just file each name, yeah, sorry. OK. 01:00:16
Brad, yay or nay? 01:00:19
Yay, Nathan. Yeah. 01:00:22
OK, great. And yay. 01:00:24
There we go. 01:00:25
Yay, alright. 01:00:26
Uh, we'll move on to the work session, which is item number three, the Forge development. 01:00:29
Uh, agreement. Amendment. 01:00:34
Uh, this one is a work session. 01:00:35
And so this one doesn't. They're not. 01:00:38
Requesting any official action by us. It's just providing input. 01:00:41
For staff benefit. 01:00:46
And so with that, Steph. 01:00:47
Time is yours for a presentation. 01:00:50
Great. Thanks so much. Um. 01:00:52
So Steve brought up with Dakota Pacific is here kind of representing the the applicant. 01:00:53
And I'll give just kind of just a really brief overview what this, what this. 01:01:00
Development agreement doesn't do. 01:01:05
So first of all, if you're familiar with the Forge. 01:01:07
Asset development north of the megaplex. 01:01:10
Umm, West of Geneva Rd. South of Interconnector and then east of Mill Rd. 01:01:12
So it's the one that we've we've seen kind of that large empty field. I think it's like 35 to 40 acres in size. 01:01:18
And even, umm. 01:01:24
It even has the parcel that's right behind that them the Napa Plex on on stage Geneva Rd. 01:01:26
Umm, So what this. 01:01:32
Development agreement modification. 01:01:34
Doesn't do it. Does not add more residential. 01:01:36
So I, I mean, that's always like the controversial thing. I think I don't want to get that out there. 01:01:39
The things that that it would do, it's going to. 01:01:44
It's looking to basically. 01:01:47
Split the property. 01:01:49
Into two separate agreements. 01:01:51
And so, as Anthony's indicating right there, the South. 01:01:53
East parcel currently. 01:01:57
Is owned by IHD. I believe it's about 5 acres. 01:01:59
Sides and in the north parcel. 01:02:02
And I achieve in the process. 01:02:04
Purchasing and for the purposes of medical uses. 01:02:07
And so their plan is to phase in. I would put them out of just over 10 acres. 01:02:11
A medical facility over time. 01:02:17
Umm, So what the use? So what their development agreement would do, it would provide a. 01:02:20
Permittable medical uses for the property. 01:02:26
Umm, it would. 01:02:29
Um, it, it, it, it breaks it, it breaks the, uh, the the property into into really into. 01:02:32
Into the two separate grammar. 01:02:39
The property that's just South of those two, The one behind the megaplex that would still be with. 01:02:41
Dakota Pacific. 01:02:46
The Dakota Dakota Pacific would then um. 01:02:47
Apply for amendment. 01:02:50
To the remaining parcels. 01:02:52
So the Forbes think of two agreements. It was under 1. 01:02:55
And what that does? 01:02:59
Umm, one of the primary things. 01:03:00
Is there's an entertainment? 01:03:02
Umm, it's a regionally significant entertainment use. 01:03:04
So you guys, you guys didn't remember that momentum? 01:03:07
Yeah, not not anymore. 01:03:11
Uh, the other client and so that, uh. 01:03:14
So that, that's kind of one of the things that calls umm for the the amendment. 01:03:16
We've worked. 01:03:20
For over the last year, so trying to get a regionally significant entertainment use. 01:03:21
What we would like to do instead is. 01:03:27
To push the entertainment, use. 01:03:29
Umm, to kind of where the the yellow area is. 01:03:31
That that was already approved by the Planning Commission that this would be, this would formally put it in the development 01:03:35
agreement. 01:03:38
Umm, so the entertainment used to. 01:03:41
Still occur. 01:03:43
But it's not gonna be the thing that holds up the project. It would allow us to work longer term. There's several uses that we 01:03:44
still are are trying to go for. 01:03:48
To understand the use but still go there. 01:03:52
However, what it would do, it would. 01:03:54
Bring retail at the front end. 01:03:56
And retail, especially Utah. 01:03:58
And, and our city is really important, umm, for, for sales tax. So it's actually. 01:04:01
Umm, in my opinion. 01:04:05
Provide us a pretty good. 01:04:06
Economic development boost for this property by getting retail in at the front end. 01:04:09
And that would be, uh, the Northwest. 01:04:13
Uh, parcel on Mill Rd. 01:04:16
And. 01:04:18
And and and the end of interconnector. 01:04:19
Just to reiterate, when you say front end, it doesn't mean you're changing the locations based on what we were interviewed. 01:04:21
Front end? You mean offered in a restaurant now before you put in an anchor? 01:04:27
Right, right. So it, it allows the project really to to kick off sooner. 01:04:31
And it would, it would get us retail. 01:04:35
Pretty soon, but it doesn't require the retail use of. 01:04:37
Regionally significant entertainment years, which is which is. 01:04:41
I'm just gonna refer. Yeah, Anchor, yeah. 01:04:44
So umm. So I, I think it's pretty positive. 01:04:48
Steve is here to see if you'd like to come up and maybe just provide just an overview. Don't cover anything that that that I 01:04:51
didn't. Those are the main adjustments for the development and. 01:04:55
When you do if you can just address. 01:05:02
Why you want this? 01:05:04
Goodbye, goodbye. 01:05:05
Hello, Commission, great to be with you. 01:05:07
So this was the land use. 01:05:11
Area for the forge that you're looking at now. 01:05:13
Notice it? 01:05:15
Top left. 01:05:17
There, at the corner of Vineyard Connector and the road as it was, it is. 01:05:17
What is the current agreement? It says entertainment and then commercial further down along the road. 01:05:22
You see, let me just get a. 01:05:27
Pointer here. 01:05:29
That would be one of them. That's one of the. 01:05:32
One of the changes a little bit more to it and then we had business up here on this corner that was just pointed out. 01:05:35
Just as I was not apart because. 01:05:40
Intermountain Health owns that parcel. 01:05:42
And has made. 01:05:44
Got under contract. 01:05:47
For the ones in the north. 01:05:48
And so their use, what their master plan is, they're here. 01:05:49
We're going to come up and be able to talk about what they would like. 01:05:53
You know the vision is for. 01:05:56
These two parcels combined after I'm done. 01:05:57
And umm. And so that's this is one piece of the change, and the other piece is. 01:06:00
People keep asking me like. 01:06:04
Steve, why don't you get the commercial going? 01:06:06
The retail. 01:06:09
I I tell everybody there's a great business case for the retail. 01:06:10
But the problem. 01:06:15
That I've had is. 01:06:16
We negotiated in at the end of 2023 that this anchor. 01:06:18
Had to come. 01:06:21
And be in the ground and under construction before any residential could go. 01:06:22
I could build a commercial today. 01:06:26
But what could happen is that could build the retail. 01:06:28
And then all of a sudden I can't fit the anchor in right. 01:06:31
And I'm prolonging how long I can get this anchor. 01:06:34
And so I really have had to hold space for this anchor. 01:06:37
And along this commercial corridor. 01:06:40
Not being able to know I can build any retail because as soon as I put up a retail building I could get in the way of my anchor 01:06:42
and my whole rest of the development is dependent upon that. 01:06:46
And so that provision really has kind of locked us in. 01:06:51
Umm, in in terms of what what, what we can do and so. 01:06:54
We're not changing any densities. As discussed, we're not changing any unit counts. 01:06:58
It's not nothing along that line. 01:07:02
What we're asking for is again, this. 01:07:03
This will be removed from our development agreement. 01:07:05
And then we'll change some of the precedent requirements around this entertainment anchor. 01:07:08
Still hold it. 01:07:12
We'll move it down here and that would allow me to build some retail. 01:07:13
Right out of the gate up here on this entertainment corner. 01:07:16
So. 01:07:20
Umm, just some of the interactions. We'll just talk about it, like just some of the efforts we've made around this anchor. 01:07:20
Well, we've, we've talked a lot of entertainment type users. These are these are the pickle chicken and Pickles of the world. And 01:07:27
we went really far down with a user that would kind of bring this larger restaurant and this outdoor, you know, pickle. 01:07:33
Ball event space. 01:07:39
And we got really far. 01:07:41
About four or five, six months into design. 01:07:42
And they ultimately couldn't make the business plan work. 01:07:45
And it was largely, they felt, due to alcohol sales. 01:07:47
OK, we talked. 01:07:51
To, umm, all kinds of other. 01:07:52
Groups like that that. 01:07:54
To have these really high end entertainment experiences. 01:07:56
That then also have a food. 01:07:59
And most of them say, look, Steve. 01:08:01
I can go to the Midwest and I know I can get my alcohol sales. That is where my margin is. I'm sorry, I'm going there. So any kind 01:08:03
of a national players, we had a really hard time working with them. So we then went to Florida with the local. 01:08:08
You know, kind of family fun. 01:08:13
Other kind of entertainment venues. 01:08:15
And you know, ironically, just because you're up against. 01:08:17
The theater, some of them had some competing. 01:08:21
Competing interests. 01:08:24
Anyways, we didn't get a lot of traction with those. I came to you in January's Momentum. Momentum came here at Momentum, finally 01:08:25
came here with me. 01:08:28
They were good. They were going to their board. They had to put them in their pool from the board. 01:08:32
Ultimately. 01:08:36
Final appro approval. 01:08:37
They had another. 01:08:39
Opportunity to go acquire 5 existing gyms and they said we're putting development on hold. 01:08:40
So that one unfortunately is sitting down a baking we don't know but still love to bring them here. They didn't say no, they just 01:08:44
said that's not our priority right now. 01:08:48
And then we've talked to some other sports facilities type users, they tend to want a lot of acreage and their business plans 01:08:53
again haven't really been solid until. 01:08:57
This is really deliverable so. 01:09:01
That's where we've been the last 18 months on the Anchor. 01:09:03
And so. 01:09:06
Let me just go to the. 01:09:09
You know, this was the plan that was talked about in December 2023 for a phase one. 01:09:12
In this corner. 01:09:16
Again, can we start building some of this retail? Can we start bringing sales tax to the area? 01:09:17
Yeah, but if. 01:09:22
I can't even get my next residential phase started without that. Then I'm I've got a concern and so. 01:09:24
The request. 01:09:28
Is to basically remove the requirement for the anchor to proceed residential. 01:09:32
Let's see, but then add a requirement back that the commercial and retail must proceed residential occupancy. 01:09:37
So it's really just a swap. 01:09:43
This again, the anchor will stay. You'll see entertainment, some, you know, fit. I don't know if it'll fit exactly in that 01:09:45
footprint, but. 01:09:48
That's the footprint we've we've used and we'll, we'll, you know, find a. 01:09:51
Place for them. 01:09:54
So we still have a requirement for that type of use. 01:09:55
For the definition of the development agreement, it's just now in a different location and it doesn't have the same. 01:09:58
Priority in terms of being able to deliver because I. 01:10:03
We can move on the commercial. 01:10:05
The anchors is taking longer to find. 01:10:07
So that is a summary of. 01:10:09
What we're? 01:10:12
What we're asking for. 01:10:13
OK. We could leave that slide up because that's really helpful for me to see the. 01:10:15
Change so thank you. 01:10:18
Members of the Commissioner, are there any questions for staff would be asking? 01:10:20
I'm going to, I'm going to say if you want, we could have IC come up or you could do this. I want to start here and then. 01:10:27
So if I understand that you just turned it off. 01:10:35
So if I understand this. 01:10:38
Part of this is a simple swap. 01:10:44
From one location to another within the. 01:10:47
Of the other thing. 01:10:51
Is to change the scheduling. 01:10:52
No, OK. 01:10:57
Video the order. 01:10:58
New order of the uh. 01:11:01
We're going to launch significant. 01:11:03
Entertainment. 01:11:05
Alright, and do I have that right? 01:11:08
Yeah, OK. So after I develop. 01:11:10
A portion of this. 01:11:14
Commercial now. 01:11:16
Then I could go start to occupy residential. 01:11:18
As opposed to after I develop. 01:11:21
And entertainment anchor. 01:11:23
Then I can still start to occupy residential, so it is giving more priority in the sequence to the commercial. 01:11:25
And less to the anchor. 01:11:30
OK. 01:11:33
You go, Yeah. So you mentioned. 01:11:35
The answer is important to bring. 01:11:39
Business is here and it says. 01:11:42
That, uh, you now want to. 01:11:44
Build a smaller retail. 01:11:47
Uh, just because it's easier to get them there until. 01:11:50
We get this anchor, so to speak. 01:11:54
I don't know. Fatigue. I'm not. 01:11:57
It's the business plan. 01:11:59
Is clear. 01:12:01
All right, it's not so specific. 01:12:02
So we can bring commercial. 01:12:06
And sales tax to the area. 01:12:08
With more clarity and more certainty in the timeframe. 01:12:10
Sure. Yeah. I don't know if it's necessarily easier. 01:12:14
I mean with the market today. 01:12:17
I imagine it's. 01:12:19
Probably harder to find. 01:12:20
People are willing to take a risk on a new location and Entertainment Acres I believe are probably riskier. 01:12:23
Than a new restaurant. 01:12:29
Umm, my only concern, And frankly, this is up to you rather than anyone else. 01:12:31
Umm, with shopping centers, Burger King doesn't want to go in until they know that's ground. 01:12:37
You know, uh, they need a retail anchor. 01:12:42
Do you foresee? 01:12:45
Any concern with filling the pads in the commercial area and entertainment area? 01:12:47
Before uh. 01:12:52
The large regional anchor is in play. 01:12:53
Or have you already found enough interest that you feel confident of this platform work? 01:12:54
Um, you know, this was. 01:13:00
What we've brought again in December. 01:13:03
2023. 01:13:05
It creates a sense of place. 01:13:06
A gathering. We're always gonna have some open space and some event space, some outdoor space, some patios. 01:13:08
They're obviously anchored by Top Golf and the theater as well, right? There's large entertainment here, so we believe. 01:13:13
In this business plan to start with. 01:13:19