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  • Start Position
  • Call to Order/Invocation/Inspirational Thought/Pledge of Allegiance
  • Commissioner Chris Bramwell called the meeting to order at02pm. Commissioner Graden Ostler led the pledge of allegiance and invocation.  
  • Presentations/Recognitions/Awards/Proclamations  1.Civic Clerk training
  • Deputy Recorder Pam Spencer introduced civic clerk to the commissioners. She briefed some steps and things that the commissioners could utilize the software for.
  • Commissioner Ostler asked how many members create a quorum.   Deputy Recorder Spencer answered in sayingmembers. She discussed the minutes and agenda previews. Deputy Recorder Spencer briefed the public on their side of civic clerk.
  • Commissioner Bramwell asked if pam knew how may cities were using this.   Deputy Recorder Spencer said its been a few years since she last looked at that information.   Commissioner Bramwell appreciated the city using this tool.  
  • Public Comments PC   There were no comments.  
  • Consent Items  2.Approval of the Decemberth,24 Planning Commission Draft Minutes
  • Motion: COMMISSIONER NATHAN STEELE MOVED TO APPROVE THE DECEMBERTH,24 PLANNING COMMISSION DRAFT MINUTES AT14PM. COMMISSIONER BRAD FAGG SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR VOTED YES: FAGG, BRAMWELL, STEELE, AND OSTLER. THIS MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  
  • Business Items  3.
  • 2025 Planning Commission Calendar
  • Senior Planner Cache Hancey briefed when the meetings were recommended to be scheduled. He provided the calendar.
  • Commissioner Steele asked the special meeting with city council.   Senior Planner Hancey noted that special sessions will be labeled which would include anything that is not scheduled in accordance with this calendar.
  • Motion: COMMISSIONER STEELE MOVED TO APPROVE THE CALENDAR AT16PM. COMMISSIONER FAGG SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR VOTED YES: FAGG, BRAMWELL, STEELE, AND OSTLER. THIS MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  4.
  • 2025 Planning Commission Chair and Vice-Chair Election
  • Community Development Director Morgan Brim prompted the conversation.   Senior Planner Hancey added that Commissioners Fagg and Ostler are alternates and can not be nominated.   Commissioner Steele asked to be reminded who are sitting members and alternates.   Discussion ensued.   Commissioner Bramwell nominated Commissioner Steele as chair.   Commissioner Steele nominated Commissioner Bramwell as vice-chair.
  • Motion: COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL MOTIONED FOR COMMISSIONER STEELE TO BE CHAIR AND FOR HIMSELF (COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL) TO BE VICE-CHAIR AT18PM. NATHAN SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR VOTED YES: FAGG, BRAMWELL, STEELE, AND OSTLER. THIS MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.    5.
  • Grocery Store Site ​Plan Amendment and Conditional Use Permit
  • Senior Planner Hancey provided a brief presentation for the grocery store and its drive thru.
  • Bronson Tatton with Flagborough described the requirements of the zoning text amendment for drive-thrus.   Senior Planner Hancey provided the elevations.   Commissioner Ostler asked what Mr. Tatton meant by triple.
  • Mr. Tatton described his comment while the elevations were shown. He briefed the queuing lane and how it would work.   Commissioner Ostler noted that he was having trouble following.   Mr. Tatton provided a description with the site plan.
  • Chair Nathan Steele acknowledged the creativity. He asked if there was consideration for the parking lot.   Senior Planner Hancey and Community Development Director Brim noted that there was conversation.   Mr. Tatton added that this is the only side of the grocery store that can have services sent into.
  • Vice-Chair Chris Bramwell asked to go over the traffic analysis.   Senior Planner Hancey introduced who we had do the traffic analysis and briefed it.   Chair Steele asked about the square-a-bout.   Senior Planner Hancey highlighted the circulation.
  • Chair Steele acknowledged that this will happen at build-out in years.   Community Development Director Brim added that users will have their pattern. This use is different than other drive-thru uses.
  • Senior Planner Hancey highlighted the bridge that will open up more circulation options.
  • Chair Steele expressed concern that the analysis does not give a recommendation.   Community Development Director Brim noted that this item could be continued if they want more information or that they could add conditions.   Vice-Chair Bramwell noted that the original concern was cars backing up.   Mr. Tatton noted that it was discussed.   Chair Steele discussed the queuing issue.   Community Development Director Brim noted that the parking spaces could be a condition of approval.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell opened to public comment.
  • Resident Daria Evans asked about the material of the pavings.
  • Resident Terry Ewings noted that she was confused by the drawings. She requested more context.
  • Resident Russel Evans expressed that he felt that they were trying to cram too much into this development.
  • Resident Karen Cornelius expressed that it is over complicated.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell closed the public comment. He prompted Mr. Tatton to respond.   Mr. Tatton addressed the paving first.   Mr. Tatton addressed the circulation. He added that one can pick up in stores as well as through the drive thru.   Vice-Chair Bramwell asked Mr. Tatton to explain the site and circulation.
  • Mr. Tatton briefed circulation patterns.   Vice-Chair Bramwell asked if there would be signage.   Community Development Director Brim noted that that would have to be a condition of approval.
  • Community Development Director Brim asked if he would look into a number of stalls.   Conversation ensued.   Mr. Tatton discussed the grocery store parking lot. He explained the orientation while elevations were shown.   Vice-Chair Bramwell asked if there was a discussion of having a option to connect directly to the parking lot.   Discussion ensued.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell opened back up to public comment.
  • Resident Ewings asked how many square feet is the grocery store. She noted that she believed that stacking was needingvehicles not   Vice-Chair Bramwell outlined the requirements and how the applicant has met those standards.   Senior Planner Hancey clarified that the site plan for the grocery store has already been approved and that this is strictly for the drive thru.
  • Resident Ewings asked what happens if they do not approve it.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell closed public comment.
  • Mr. Tatton noted that the grocery store has started construction and that they are looking toward November. He briefed a timeline.   Chair Steele expressed concern for the right turn.   City Engineer and Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour noted that there will already have to be an amendment made to the land disturbance review which will involve a technical review. He highlighted topics that are addressed in the technical review.
  • Chair Steele commented that this is the choice of an architect and that he does not feel that they are cramming too much in. He noted that he feels they are getting too involved in business decisions.
  • Motion: CHAIR STEELE MOVED TO APPROVE THE SITE PLAN AMENDMENT AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT THE RIGHT TURN IS ADDRESSED IN THE TECHNICAL REVIEW AND THAT SPECIFICS ON THE PLAN ARE REVIEWED AT04PM. COMMISSIONER GRADEN OSTLER SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR VOTED YES: FAGG, BRAMWELL, STEELE, AND OSTLER. THIS MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   Senior Planner Hancey addressed the approval process.    
  • Work Session  7.The Forge Regionally Significant Entertainment Use Certification - Work Session
  • Community Development Director Brimprovided a background of the certification.
  • Steve Borup discussed the development agreement and provided a description of the momentum gym along with the food and beverage area.   Chair Steele asked if staff could have maps imagery for context.   Commissioner Ostler asked what the proposed climbing company.   Mr. Borup introduced Jon to discuss the rock climbing gym.
  • Jon Culbert with Momentum discussed the range of area and the business. He briefed the facility and amenities included.
  • Commissioner Ostler asked about the rope height.   Mr. Culvert discussed Olympic speed climbing and its correlation to height and events.   Commissioner Ostler asked about the Eatertainment.
  • Mr. Borup addressed location and the services to comply with the development agreement. He presented a concept site plan.   Chair Steele asked to see google maps.   Senior Planner Hancey provided a map and context.
  • Mr. Borup presented imagery for the building aesthetic, spatial data, and fiscal impact.   Commissioner Ostler clarified that they want momentum to be the anchor.   Mr. Borup agreed and stated his request.   Chair Steele discussed the architecture of the glass windows.
  • Mr. Colbert noted the consideration of glass and where to put it to avoid sunlight redirection.   Mr. Borup provided more imagery.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell asked if there was any impact with the national climbing USA Headquarters coming.   Mr. Colbert noted that momentum is partnering with them.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell asked if there was public
  • Bryce Brady noted that it must be unique to the county. He also added the idea of other things being added around it and the park space. Brady addressed how the gym being separated from the food and beverage could be a concern.   Vice-Chair Bramwell closed public comment.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell asked what makes this unique.   Mr. Borup highlighted the size of the gym.
  • Vice-Chair Bramwell asked for the language.   Community Development Director Brim noted that unique was not listed as a standard in the signed version of the development agreement but that it was in the minutes.   Discussion ensued about meeting the different standards.
  • Chair Steele asked if this use as an anchor will bring people to the area.   Mr. Borup noted that it brings the level of activity and interest up for the area.   Vice-Chair Bramwell asked how tall the tallest wall was.   Mr. Colbert noted-60 feet.   Vice-Chair Bramwell noted the tallest wall could be the unique factor.
  • Commissioner Steele asked about the class types.   Mr. Colbert noted there will be a variety of classes. Memberships and revenue was outlined.   Community Development Director Brim brought up tournaments.   Mr. Colbert discussed their commitments to larger events.
  • Chair Steele appreciated the age inclusiveness. He asked if there is action needed.   Community Development Director Brim said not tonight. He outlined the process forward.   Commissioner Ostler appreciated this.  
  • Staff, Commission, and Committee Reports   Senior Planner Hancey reported an update on the parking town hall from the previous night.  
  • Adjournment   The meeting was adjourned at50pm.           MINUTES CERTIFIED COMPLETE ON: Februaryh,25 CERTIFIED (NOTICED) BY:                                                      Madison Reed, Planning Technician
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Transcript

Click on that. 00:00:00
It takes a minute to the left. 00:00:07
We're we're gonna start. 00:00:12
Yeah. 00:00:18
Morgan, are you in charge here? 00:00:20
The Pam's here. She supersedes everyone. 00:00:24
Yeah. 00:00:27
You wanna do the like O uh, opening prayer or? 00:00:29
OK, uh, alright, we're gonna go ahead and get started. Welcome to our January 22nd, 2025. 00:00:33
Uh planning a special session for Planning Commission meeting at 6:00 PM. 00:00:41
Uh, we're gonna start with uh, uh, invocation and play. 00:00:46
Uh, by Graham. 00:00:51
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and. 00:00:53
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:01:08
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice across. 00:01:10
Our Father in heaven. 00:01:25
We. 00:01:27
Are grateful to be gathered together. 00:01:28
Uh, citizens. 00:01:31
And friends and family and. 00:01:34
People interested? 00:01:38
And Vineyard, Father, we transfer thy Holy Spirit to be with us. 00:01:40
Help us to be. 00:01:46
Respectful and. 00:01:48
Help us to be guided in our thoughts to. 00:01:50
Come up with. 00:01:55
Great solutions and. 00:01:57
Be mindful. 00:02:00
Of our. 00:02:02
Residents. 00:02:03
We're grateful. 00:02:07
For the freedoms which we endure here in America, we say this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you. 00:02:09
All right, uh, second item of business is presentation, recognition, the words and proclaim proclamation, civic clerk training. 00:02:18
So can I be you Pam? 00:02:26
OK, great. 00:02:30
Sometimes we don't turn it on, we forget. 00:02:34
So. 00:02:37
Let me see if this will come on again. 00:02:38
OK. 00:02:40
Umm, we've been using this. 00:02:41
Just under a year now this new UMM Agenda MA meeting. 00:02:44
Can the meeting management program and I thought it was past due to make sure that everybody was. 00:02:48
Logged in and was receiving their agendas in their packets. 00:02:54
Through this board portal. 00:02:59
But to show you just a couple things, if you haven't played around on it, yours looks way different than mine because I'm an admin 00:03:01
on it so. 00:03:05
I get to see everything. 00:03:09
But so you should just see your boards that you're on with. 00:03:10
But I sent you a new links. 00:03:15
Out today, if you haven't logged in, you'll go in and you'll create a log in. 00:03:17
And then the one thing I need you to do is where your name is. 00:03:22
Then you're gonna go click on your e-mail preference. Make sure it's checking this box. 00:03:27
And clicking save. 00:03:32
OK. And then you can? 00:03:35
Umm, let's see, I need to go back. 00:03:39
Bye bye. 00:03:41
Yeah. 00:03:43
OK. 00:03:44
Click Save. I'll just click Save. 00:03:45
It is not. Oh sorry I did that wrong. 00:03:50
Forward portal. There we go. 00:03:55
So what you're gonna see is like tonight's meeting. 00:03:56
If you click on that once, you're in it. 00:04:00
You'll see that the agenda is right here. You can click on any. 00:04:03
Item that you want. 00:04:07
And what's really cool about it is if you do it before the meeting, then you can make notes about things you wanna talk about. 00:04:09
To do it during the meeting, then you can make notes about things that were brought up that you want to remember. 00:04:15
Umm, these are private notes. They are not subject to reference requests, but whatever you. 00:04:21
Put in here please. Umm don't share it. 00:04:27
These are UMM unless semester South and to remember not to pray to quorum. 00:04:31
That's always something I like to push, but it's really simple. I promise this is not gonna take very long to do, but you can type 00:04:36
notes in here all you want. 00:04:41
And it'll automatically save them. 00:04:45
And you can go back. 00:04:48
With this tab here and look at anything you put notes into. 00:04:50
Umm, remind me when we have quorum. 00:04:55
Status. 00:04:59
Umm, when a chlorine acorn is three members of a board, Commission, council. 00:05:00
So where you are A5 member with two alternates, the quorum is 3. 00:05:07
OK. 00:05:13
Yeah, so. 00:05:14
When you're emailing people, don't be. 00:05:16
Be seeing, don't be umm. 00:05:19
Decline all in those. Throw that out there. You can look once the minutes are in there. I don't e-mail you the minutes, but I do. 00:05:21
Put them in there. 00:05:30
I do. Are you guys putting them in there? 00:05:32
The minutes in the portal. 00:05:34
Yeah. So you should be able to go back and find minutes and things that you can look at through the portal. 00:05:36
You can also obviously go look at the minute through the. 00:05:42
City website. But what what's fun is you can look at just straight the agenda here. 00:05:45
You got a button you can click and look at the agenda. 00:05:51
We'll just give you that. 00:05:55
And this is my first info. It opens up a new window every time which is great, but I have to remember it does that. 00:05:58
And then you can look at the full packet if you want. 00:06:04
Just like you would if you were looking at. 00:06:07
That the public website. 00:06:09
Side of it. 00:06:11
So we'll give you everything but. 00:06:12
How often do you really wanna get into that when you can do all this other stuff here? 00:06:14
Of all of your attachments. 00:06:18
With the stuff you want. 00:06:21
We'll look at the calendar. 00:06:23
Umm, there should have been attachment. OK, maybe not. 00:06:24
Right here. Oh, you have to probably download the attachment. 00:06:29
So your better bet is to go in. 00:06:33
If you wanna look at the attachments in the packet then you can go here. 00:06:39
But just make sure you're making notes. I want people to to utilize this the best. 00:06:42
As you can and make notes in here. Like I said it auto saves them so you have them. 00:06:48
But make sure you're getting in here. This is where they're sending you all your stuff. Hey, just checking in. 00:06:53
What's? What's that? 00:06:59
Don't know why that was not part of the feature. No, that's not part of the feature stuff. Team Cousin is over here doing other 00:07:02
work while I'm up here doing this. 00:07:07
I will check that later. 00:07:14
I didn't read it. 00:07:17
You get a bonus. 00:07:20
So anyway, really simple. Simple simple simple stuff. 00:07:22
OK. Just make sure you're you're getting in there. 00:07:25
Getting your e-mail preferences so that you are getting those emails because you can look at the agenda, you can look at the 00:07:29
attachments, you can make those notes in there and it saves those notes. So if you have something you wanna go back and remember. 00:07:35
So I I recommend that you umm. 00:07:41
Bring tablet, bring a laptop, something that you can. 00:07:44
Log into and access this. 00:07:48
Pretty simple. 00:07:50
Umm, pretty good. 00:07:52
The other thing I wanted to just touch base on for our. 00:07:54
Our friends that have come to the media is make sure you're doing the public side, make sure you're getting those emails from us. 00:07:58
Because, umm. 00:08:08
You never know when something's gonna get updated or special session might happen, so just go in to to Vineyard if you haven't 00:08:09
already. I know quite a few of you probably have. 00:08:15
And it's going to ask you when you're here. It's going to ask you to sign in. 00:08:21
And it's gonna ask you what subscriptions you want. 00:08:31
And you can just click on those, make sure they go black like that. 00:08:35
And whatever ones you want to get, whatever ones are available. 00:08:39
You'll get an e-mail now if we update it. We don't have to send an e-mail because I need complaints because we get too many 00:08:43
emails. 00:08:46
So, umm. 00:08:49
But pick which origin Commission do you wanna get emails about notifications that you might be interested in, and maybe someday 00:08:52
you'll wanna sit on the board of Commission. 00:08:56
You see what they're doing or what's going on and they might apply for that, so. 00:09:00
Umm, so that's it. I wanted to keep it short and sweet. Does anybody have any questions? 00:09:06
How many cities you know are using this already? Umm. 00:09:11
You know, that was year and a half, two, almost two years ago that we started looking into this, so. 00:09:16
When they gave us our stuff, I mean there were there were few, there were few, but this was my favorite. This was the easiest 1 to 00:09:22
umm to work with out of all the ones I looked at. 00:09:27
And umm, we just, we just found it gave us a lot of benefits. 00:09:32
Well, I'm seeing, uh, the public notice website compared to this because you have no obligation to do something like this. So it's 00:09:38
a great tool, yeah, to go above and beyond and make it easy for the policy Yeah, the the tool we don't, but. 00:09:45
You know, because when we were doing it just under Civic plus. 00:09:52
You know they've got a a a similar a smaller program where I have to upload the PDF. 00:09:55
Within the PDF. 00:10:01
Then we were training packets and then we were booked. Started bookmarking them and. 00:10:02
And those kinds of things. And that's a lot of work and especially if the the packet gets changed after you've got it ready. 00:10:07
Then you have to go back and change everything. This I can move things around in it. 00:10:14
I can move them to another meeting if something needs to get bumped. 00:10:19
Just like that. I mean it is so simple and so nice to use so. 00:10:23
It's a. It's a great plus for the work we did. We calculated how long it was taking. 00:10:28
Her agenda depending on the size of the agenda, the average of 16 hours. 00:10:34
Per agenda. 00:10:39
This is cut that in in more than half. 00:10:41
So it's it's a great benefit. It's great plus and I wanted you guys. 00:10:43
Also benefit from it, from what we offer with it. 00:10:48
So get in there. Take note. 00:10:52
Write notes. Remind yourself what you wanted to talk about a different item. 00:10:55
And and really utilize it. OK Oh look, there's a new code right there. Or getting back with me on something else. 00:11:00
Sorry I can't post the notifications off but. 00:11:08
Anyway, anymore clinic? Any more questions? 00:11:12
OK. Thank you for letting me come, you guys. 00:11:16
I appreciate it. 00:11:19
And we'll do this for all the other boards and commissions. 00:11:20
This will shut off. Thank you for that. 00:11:24
Sometimes they're not always. 00:11:36
What? 00:11:38
Pretty funny, huh? 00:11:41
All right, we're going to move on to the public comment period. So this is the time for anyone who'd like to make, uh, comments 00:11:43
related to items that aren't necessarily already on the agenda. 00:11:53
Uh, exactly. You come up, state your name and you have 3 minutes. 00:12:02
Umm, any public comment from anyone? 00:12:08
Wow, I got it easy. I thought I was gonna have to start remembering everyone's name. 00:12:12
OK, alright. 00:12:16
Uh, we'll move on to Item 4, Consent items. UH 4.2 approval of December 18th, 2024 Planning Commission draft minutes. 00:12:18
Umm, I was not in attendance that day, so those who could make a motion, the only one I'll move to approve. 00:12:27
OK. 00:12:33
December 18th, 2024. Planning Commission minutes. 00:12:34
Well then, the rest of us are there. One of us left a second. 00:12:38
OK, all in favor. 00:12:42
Hi, hi, hi. 00:12:44
Motion passed. 00:12:47
Uh, we will move to uh, item 5. 00:12:48
Planning Commission calendar. 00:12:51
So just scheduling the meetings. 00:12:55
Yeah, Yep. 00:12:58
Uh, I can follow it up if you want. It should be on the staff report, but it's just the first and and third Wednesday of. 00:12:59
Uh, the month. 00:13:07
I I I don't believe that there were any conflicting holidays this year. Sometimes we'll have like. 00:13:09
Yeah, yeah, July is the second. 00:13:14
From my mouth. 00:13:18
So. 00:13:18
Should be loading. 00:13:24
There you go. 00:13:29
So this is the only month that was kind of funky that we had to switch up some dates to the to the City Council. 00:13:30
But the rest of the year? 00:13:36
On that first and 3rd and it's one of those once again, if we have a lack of agenda items cancel a meeting everyone tomorrow we 00:13:38
might have to call for special session. But this is kind of the going what people can expect for our our Planning Commission for 00:13:42
the the following year. 00:13:46
How do we feel about moving up to Saturday morning? 00:13:52
I think that our bylaw actually require it. I have the worst of it. Serious. 00:13:55
Umm OK, no issues. Umm, only quick question. 00:14:05
So if we we had talked before about having a special meeting with the City Council and a combined. 00:14:09
Meeting umm would that show up? 00:14:15
Would would that just be considered a special meeting? Yeah. So on that agenda software will label it special session. Even site 00:14:18
was labeled as as special sessions. We were meeting on the 4th. 00:14:22
Yeah. So anything outside of this calendar will be labeled. 00:14:27
Session or joint session with the the City Council, OK. 00:14:30
Is this, uh, an item we have to approve? Yeah, it does have to be approved. 00:14:35
Uh, any other discussion on the calendar? 00:14:40
From anyone. 00:14:43
Uh, a motion. 00:14:45
To approve. 00:14:47
I'm going to approve the calendar as presented. 00:14:48
OK, a second. 00:14:50
All in favor. 00:14:53
All right, all right, all right. 00:14:54
We'll move to item 5.42025, Planning Commission Chair and Vice Chair election. 00:14:57
So you can take this anyway. I mean, so typically if there's someone that really wants it, they can nominate themselves, you can 00:15:07
nominate someone else. 00:15:10
Umm, if you get multiple nominations we can work through that, but. 00:15:14
I will note that UMM Brad and Grayson are alternates, so they would not be eligible. 00:15:19
So with that, you go to the website right now, umm, to look at Planning Commission. Maybe that just needs to be updated. Could you 00:15:29
please remind us? 00:15:33
The names of all of the current sitting, Yeah, and the commissioners and all of the options. So the other two members that are 00:15:37
sitting would be Caden Row and and Natalie Harvin. 00:15:42
Who are not here tonight. 00:15:47
Umm. And then we have Steve Anderson as an alternate. 00:15:48
Umm, we did have Bryce Brady, but uh, due to term limits. 00:15:52
It's no longer with. I mean, he's with us tonight, but. 00:15:56
Uh, so that means we do have one vacancy as a, uh, full time member of the Commission, as a sitting member of the Commission. 00:16:00
So we currently have. 00:16:06
Three sitting members and three alternate members. 4 sitting. We have kitten that way and then two. 00:16:07
Of course I didn't tell her something. 00:16:14
Can only sitting members make motions? 00:16:19
No, you you already can make an automation. Yeah, sure. 00:16:22
But you just can't nominate. 00:16:26
Unit Madam's Chair. 00:16:29
I will consider that. 00:16:34
I, in turn, would nominate you as Vice Chair. 00:16:38
OK. 00:16:42
I can accept that. 00:16:43
And then you would umm, if you both would accept it, then you make a umm, somebody just make a motion a second. You do the second 00:16:45
on that. 00:16:48
So you made the motion or I guess? 00:16:52
You make a motion for both. I will second it or. 00:16:54
Really bad minutes wise for me to make that motion. It might be good because that was the nomination. Both got nominated and now 00:16:57
it makes an official motion. 00:17:01
If I make a note, uh, a motion for Nathan Steel to be chair. 00:17:06
And myself to be vice chair. 00:17:11
And I'll second that, OK. 00:17:14
Uh, and then this is a roll call vote, correct? 00:17:15
I don't think it matters. Alright, so all in favor. 00:17:19
All right, all right. OK, great. Unanimously. 00:17:23
All right, we'll move to item 5.5, Grocery store site plan amendment and conditional use permit. 00:17:27
Uh, and Bronson will be presenting. I'll give you a brief just, uh, presentation here. Uh, but we do have Bronson here, sorry. 00:17:33
I didn't mean to steal your Thunder there. 00:17:41
You know, he mentioned he was planning that. 00:17:43
So as you, as you can recall last year, we we have the site plan in front of the Planning Commission for approval. I think we even 00:17:45
did show the drive through just of what it could look like. 00:17:49
But at that time it was not permitted you. 00:17:53
Umm, no drivers allowed in the downtown umm, so they went. We went through a zoning tech environment last year with the planning 00:17:55
mission. City Council to change that to allow for. 00:18:00
Umm, this type of drive through service for a pharmacy has a very specific standards of of the queuing length of a width of. 00:18:05
Connection enhancements and safety measures. Umm. 00:18:13
Umm which they have met all those standards with this design so. 00:18:16
Umm, with, I can let Bronson, uh, come up if you guys do have any specific questions. They did provide an attractive impact study 00:18:20
as some people did request that to show kind of what this would look like if there's a queuing problem, umm, and, and what they 00:18:25
would do to address that. So. 00:18:29
Go ahead, Johnson. OK, I'll jump up. 00:18:40
Uh, Bronson Patton with the developer. 00:18:43
Umm, yeah. So I guess just kind of piggybacking on, uh. 00:18:46
Uh, what? Cash just kinda ended with her. 00:18:49
Umm. 00:18:52
So in the zoning text amendment that we did to allow the drive through. 00:18:53
It called out for three. 00:18:57
Stacking lanes so we have. 00:18:59
In one of the exhibits, I don't know if you can find it, Umm. 00:19:02
Cash, but it shows a 60 foot length, which I think is also in the the text amendment. 00:19:05
And then we are a little bit longer than that, but you'll see a 60 foot dimension on one of the exhibits. Hopefully it's in your 00:19:11
packet. 00:19:14
But we extend a little bit beyond that. 00:19:19
Umm and then if that queuing. 00:19:21
Does fill up. 00:19:25
We'll make available some some waiting stalls over. 00:19:27
In the parking lot. 00:19:31
And then umm. 00:19:33
There would be a text that would go out and say your prescription is ready to pick up through the drive through and they could 00:19:35
circle back around and come through the drive through again. 00:19:39
Yeah, sorry. I can quickly show the elevations as well. They did submit. 00:19:45
Just to show. Oh, hang on, I'm just gonna zoom in. Sorry. You mentioned something about triple. 00:19:49
3 something. 00:19:55
033 uh. 00:19:57
Yeah, like 3 stalls of waiting. 00:19:59
For the window. 00:20:02
So. 00:20:03
And here you can see in these. 00:20:04
So let me kind of explain this elevation and then maybe we can flip back to the plan. 00:20:06
So I think it's the the span that's labeled. Is that H in that diamond? 00:20:11
Yeah, HH right here. Yeah. So that is where the window sits. 00:20:18
For the pharmacy, like the lower for lower windows, one of those will open. 00:20:22
Umm and then from that .60 feet back is that measurement? 00:20:27
And then there's additional, you know a longer vehicle gets in there. I think it ended up being 75 feet provided. 00:20:32
Umm, and then if if those. 00:20:42
3. 00:20:45
Queuing stalls. 00:20:46
Back up, you know, we want to avoid people parking on the sidewalk and on the bike lane. 00:20:47
Umm, the pharmacist or the person in the window would ask the person to pull through and go wait in the parking lot so their 00:20:53
prescription is ready to pick up and then they. 00:20:58
Come back in. 00:21:03
To the queueing plan. 00:21:04
OK, so I'm thinking. 00:21:07
I'm still having a hard time envisioning it, but uh, so maybe flip back to the plan view. So keep this in mind. So if you're 00:21:09
seeing these. 00:21:12
Like look at the the the column fan. 00:21:16
And just remember where these windows are at on H and if we flip to the site plan. 00:21:20
Where those you can kind of see the. 00:21:27
The building projecting out into the column space. 00:21:30
That's where the window would be on the far, uh, east side. So on the right hand side. Yep. OK, one window. 00:21:33
Umm, not similar. Well, to a bank where three people can be serviced at one time, right? Yeah, it's only one person at the window 00:21:40
at a time. Early on we did explore doing a tube. 00:21:46
We we still only have this amount of space, but we would. 00:21:52
We would bring people in the opposite direction and that was problematic, we felt like. 00:21:55
It's more typical for a pharmacy to be against the window, the driver to be against the window. So we reversed it, took the tube 00:22:01
out and put them up against the window. 00:22:05
The driver side up against the window. 00:22:10
Yeah. 00:22:13
Umm, some of the other things that we did is like cash, if you could zoom in there. 00:22:15
Umm, the surfacing is different. 00:22:19
When like, the sidewalk is umm, labeled #21 and we've changed the. 00:22:23
The paving type in the sidewalk as a visual queue. 00:22:29
A tactile to pedestrians walking on a sidewalk. 00:22:32
And then we did something similar on the bike lane, which is. 00:22:37
Label #20. 00:22:40
So we're changing up the surface where the car passes through those. 00:22:42
The the bike lane and the sidewalk and then. 00:22:46
When it when the car exits. 00:22:49
Uh, we did that also on the. 00:22:52
On the entrance into the parking lot, over there on the right. 00:22:55
And then this loading. 00:22:59
Yep, right there and then the loading for the trucks when they're pulling in. 00:23:00
We did the same thing. 00:23:05
Just as like 2 for the pedestrians and bicyclists to know that they're crossing through. 00:23:07
OK, thank you to the password. 00:23:13
Umm. 00:23:18
There were some comments from staff that we kind of fixed. 00:23:20
Umm, on the sidewalk section, what's labeled as #21? 00:23:24
The the vehicular path. 00:23:29
It like there's like that jog, we're gonna take that that corner out and just have the arc. 00:23:32
Continue around. 00:23:38
If I don't know if I explained that very well, but yeah, I think I'm not sure is. 00:23:41
For covering it up there rather than a square is gonna be Yep, it'll be purple there. 00:23:45
Yep. 00:23:51
There is between the. 00:23:53
The pharmacy queuing area there is a vertical curve that's separating. 00:23:55
You know that it'll be elevated from the sidewalk elevation. 00:24:00
So that the you know the cars won't be able to. 00:24:05
So you have to jump a curve to get across. 00:24:07
The sidewalk. 00:24:10
In that section. 00:24:11
And then the curve ends when. 00:24:14
You know when they come in and when they come out where those pavement changes are happening. 00:24:16
Yeah. Any, any questions? 00:24:27
To me. Oh, go ahead. No, I I want to acknowledge that. 00:24:31
And thank you for your creativity with it. And that is a tough site. 00:24:34
Because really the only place to locate this. 00:24:38
For a drive through is having access that's on the north side but East and West road which requires crossing traffic to access. 00:24:43
I am fully acknowledged the difficulty with that. 00:24:52
My question and I don't know if it's gonna necessarily for you or for planners. 00:24:55
Did we ever consider or do we? 00:24:59
Just prohibit. 00:25:02
Accessing all of this from the. 00:25:05
Parking lot itself. 00:25:07
So. 00:25:09
Some people can just come from the drive through rather than potentially queuing or anything. I'm just curious if our code 00:25:13
prohibits anything like that. 00:25:17
That might even be a question for nothing, because you have. 00:25:22
Parking lot exit right here that we've done kind of creating this. 00:25:25
Area of conflict between the drive through exit and and the people exiting the parking lot. And we did discuss it in our in the, 00:25:29
in the site plan and I, I think so having them exit out in the parking lot seems like that could potentially be a possibility, but 00:25:35
having them enter in from the parking lot seem problematic because it puts you in kind of a reverse umm. 00:25:41
Position with the backing tube. 00:25:48
Umm, and so that that, sorry. 00:25:50
If you pull into the driveway going to the West and you're serving for the 19 two the air tube like bank seller. 00:25:55
Because you're now the driver facing on the left side in the. 00:26:02
Front side on the right side. Got it, Got it. 00:26:05
We, we, uh, one of the other challenges too, of, of this particular layout and being on the South side, this is really the only 00:26:08
side of the grocery store we can send services into, Yeah. 00:26:14
The east elevation is. 00:26:20
You know, really nice elevation that we don't wanna be sending like power into that that side of the grocery store. So it's coming 00:26:22
in from the South. 00:26:26
And then we have residential. 00:26:31
Can't be building on the north and the West, so we can't really have. 00:26:33
Services coming in from that side, so. 00:26:38
The South side kinda takes the brunt. 00:26:40
Of all of the the. 00:26:42
The water, sewer, power, everything's coming in from this. 00:26:44
Kinda narrow. 00:26:50
Yeah. 00:26:51
Side of the building. 00:26:52
Yeah. 00:26:54
Can we go over the traffic analysis? 00:26:58
Yeah. 00:27:01
Umm. 00:27:03
Who believes? Oh no, that's not it's not going up. There we go. 00:27:05
Soon it was performed by UH Hale. 00:27:09
Engineering umm, which they're a recital firm in the area. We we use them pretty frequently. 00:27:12
Umm, and the things that just step out and you can probably have a better, you know, understanding of, of this, but. 00:27:18
Essentially they they find that umm. 00:27:24
Umm, the queueing defenses adequate for a pharmaceutical need. 00:27:26
Umm and that there is access to the drive through, although once the. 00:27:29
Going back to this image here. 00:27:35
Once this intersection here blocks off. 00:27:38
It will create a little bit, you know, people are gonna have to go up to the the square about in order to get back to the 00:27:41
pharmacy. 00:27:44
I don't know if I did that just a second zoom out instead. 00:27:48
So I'll. 00:27:52
Plead ignorance here. Never heard the term square of that. You turn in an intersection that's disappeared. Just kind of like a 00:27:53
large uh. 00:27:58
Roundabout, that's part of the problem on it. It's one of the problem that's blocked. I function like a roundabout, but it happens 00:28:02
to be square. Yeah, you you can go drive through it, right? 00:28:07
Yeah, you can go drive through right now if you want. Brought the name that we were. 00:28:11
So yeah, essentially the like it's more of a rectangular ball, but. 00:28:18
The report says that people to access it, once this is blocked off, they're going to have to go up to the square about and 00:28:22
essentially put EU turn coming back down Main Street to take a right. 00:28:26
Yeah, or they're gonna have to go all the way back around this way. Yeah, well. 00:28:31
Right now that seems crazy intimidating. 00:28:36
Of like, why would we create all of these things? 00:28:39
This is at build out. 00:28:43
Alright. 00:28:45
Ten years plus in the future, yeah, That intersection doesn't get closed off, OK. 00:28:46
I mean, it all depends on how quickly we build and. 00:28:51
We're projecting we wouldn't be closing that offer. 00:28:54
I think like 10 plus years, Yeah, I'm just trying to remember. 00:28:59
What life was like 10 years ago and I did not use Amazon nearly as much as I used that. And I can only imagine what technology is 00:29:02
gonna be different 10 years from now when it comes to delivery of everything. 00:29:09
And so. 00:29:15
That doesn't concern me as much because I have a feeling that the strategy that's proposed right now will likely change 10 years 00:29:16
from now to reflect whatever the circumstances are at that point. Well, you also gotta imagine too, with a pharmacy, typically you 00:29:21
have a set pharmacy that that like you have the, the pharmacy that you go to. So the hope is that maybe the first time it's 00:29:27
confusing, but once your pattern is established and you know, around 10 years from now, I'm getting my meds from a pharmaceutical 00:29:32
robot. 00:29:37
I, I'm a A it's really hard for me to say 10 years from now this is what it's going to be because. 00:29:44
The the advancements and just the change in behaviors impossible to prove. 00:29:51
I guess I guess my point is the pharmacy is a little different than others. 00:29:56
Type drive through uses. 00:29:59
Umm, where you typically are gonna have like an established, umm, pharmacy that, that you're gonna be getting your prescriptions 00:30:00
to. And the other thing I did wanna bring up is this map showing kind of the existing grid network. 00:30:06
Umm and and soon to be bridge that will be constructed this year right here. 00:30:11
Uh, over the vineyard connector and so residents who, who do live, you know, maybe in the, the western part of the vineyard, they 00:30:16
would be able to go up 300 W. 00:30:20
Get onto this bridge and they would be right there at that grocery store. Just probably as simple as a lot quicker than going 00:30:24
through Main Street and over. 00:30:28
So you know that that's also another viable option of of accessing Skype rather than, you know, going through, Oh, this is that 00:30:32
square about. You can kind of see a better picture up here. Got it. So, umm, is there anyone from health engineering here? 00:30:38
To speak to us now. 00:30:45
Not not lastly joined online. 00:30:47
OK. 00:30:50
Yeah, umm, and maybe we just didn't request it. 00:30:51
My only concern with it is it doesn't necessarily give a recommendation or opinion. 00:30:55
As much as it just. 00:31:01
In in conclusion, let me summarize what it is. 00:31:03
Umm, which is great. It's great that the engineer was able to say yes, there's storage for three vehicles, and yes, it will always 00:31:06
be. 00:31:10
Accessible. 00:31:15
That's what our code requires and so I can't really make any argument beyond what the code. 00:31:16
Requires there umm. 00:31:21
It would have been nice if we had a traffic engineer that said. 00:31:24
This is what I would recommend we do. Does that make sense? 00:31:27
Sharing that. 00:31:31
Umm, yeah, and that that this is one of those things too. I mean from the. 00:31:33
Planning Commission, if you feel like you need more information, you know, I wouldn't say continue, but there, there are times 00:31:37
where you know that that is always an option, Uh. 00:31:41
Umm, being a conditional use permit, so you have a minimum requirement, you can take those, but if you identify some sort of 00:31:46
detrimental, umm, impact that the use is gonna generate, that's where you, you do have the ability to use conditions, umm, to, to 00:31:52
help mitigate any of those. And so if you're able to identify something that could be conditioned upon the approval to mitigate a 00:31:58
potential concerns and then we could, we could consider as well. Yeah, I'm totally gonna and I. 00:32:04
I mean, I'd love to hear everyone else's, umm, I, I don't know if necessarily there's more information that is needed. I believe 00:32:11
when we were discussing it before and we asked for this, the concern was just the amount of backing up that would occur. 00:32:18
And you're gonna end up with not only the crosswalk block, but then a line coming down of, you know, people. 00:32:25
Turning right to turn onto the streets and then go in. 00:32:31
The analysis it doesn't really cover to the engineers think based off of the traffic patterns is that going to occur and then with 00:32:34
three extra calls be enough. So that's discussed, you know, with the yeah, we generic, I mean we talked about it, we talked, I 00:32:39
gave them the context of the meeting. 00:32:45
And the conditions that were. 00:32:51
Added in the text amendment. I gave them those we talked through a study. 00:32:54
Several. 00:32:58
Grocery store pharmacies in our area. 00:32:59
They even reached outside of our area up in I think Heber, where there's a. 00:33:03
Uh, we use with a a pharmacy. 00:33:08
So they evaluated several and they came back and felt like the three. 00:33:11
Queueing stalls that were identified in the code were adequate for this store as well. I I think that solution does work. 00:33:15
Because if the pharmacist observes and sees that the queue is gonna get bad, they say OK, while we're preparing it, just go on 00:33:23
parking the parking lot. 00:33:27
You know and and we'll let you know when it's ready rather than you waiting in the drive through. 00:33:32
I mean, I hate to always compare it to drive through restaurants. 00:33:37
But every drafty restaurant. Oh, your fries aren't ready. I'm not gonna have you wait here and hold up traffic. Go up to this 00:33:41
spot. 00:33:45
And we'll let you know when it's ready or we'll come and bring it up to you. I feel like it's just using that same strategy, 00:33:49
right? Exactly, exactly. 00:33:52
Yeah. So that for me, I understand how they address. 00:33:58
Thank you. Yes, you're there. Something to, uh, consider as well. So possibly. 00:34:02
Convention about this having three parking spaces that could serve. 00:34:08
Umm like overflow or peak hour stuff? Umm and they can get text messages. 00:34:12
That would be an appropriate condition of of approval having a minimum of three parking spaces that can be dedicated to umm the 00:34:18
the the pharmacy drive through. 00:34:22
Yeah. And especially if you're willing to do that, yeah. 00:34:28
Yeah, that's in. 00:34:31
It's it's yeah. But I, I, I would, it's just a. 00:34:33
When you make the the motion, I that that would be a good condition to attach to it. Mm-hmm. 00:34:37
Pressure that you're getting from the tractor in there. 00:34:45
Any other? 00:34:47
Question. 00:34:49
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So we're gonna open it up to public comment. 00:34:51
No. 00:34:58
So just come forward and state your name. 00:35:00
Diarrhea. Correct. I, I remember. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Everyone else will. 00:35:08
Uh, let's take a sorry, Evan's still a resident. I just have a question about the pay paving. 00:35:13
Are they going to be brick pavers? 00:35:20
That delineates those different areas. 00:35:23
Have you seen the roundabouts on Center St. and how they're all cracking up? 00:35:27
So I'll, I'll write down the questions and then we can follow up. So yeah, that's what I want to know. What? 00:35:31
What the paving is gonna be like and how they're gonna mitigate. 00:35:36
The tracking and the crumbling. 00:35:40
Because of free sauce situation. Thank you. 00:35:43
All right. 00:35:47
Kerry Ewing from the Village, you said? Carrie. Carrie. Carrie. Sorry. 00:35:55
I have an architectural background. This is sort of confusing for me. 00:36:00
It's like I'm not sure what the question is. How do you? 00:36:05
Is that not the front of the store or is the front of the store in front? 00:36:11
Parking lot and how do you get in? 00:36:15
Can you just go in and get your prescription? 00:36:17
OK. 00:36:20
So. 00:36:22
You want you want me to ask them to give a more overview of the structural layout of the store and. 00:36:23
OK, so there the windows are where on the left hand no. 00:36:28
This is where my cursor is at. Is where the drive through would be located in your pharmacy. 00:36:34
The front elevation to the east. This is looking WI got a front elevation so this drive through. 00:36:39
It's on the side. 00:36:45
On the South side, OK. 00:36:49
Yeah. And and so you're not going to you're not going to tell residents I'm trying to make. 00:36:52
Question. 00:36:57
Yeah, I can have residence. 00:36:59
That they go through and. 00:37:01
And then have to leave. 00:37:05
And then drive around. 00:37:08
And they'll when they text them where they I don't understand. 00:37:10
This is the first time I've seen it. I couldn't buy it. 00:37:17
OK. So we gotta, we have Bronson when he comes back, explain the flow of the child pattern kind of the customer experience. Is 00:37:22
that kinda what you're asking? 00:37:26
Yeah, because I'm. 00:37:30
Well, we'll ask him to come and explain it and then I'll open public comment back up again after you understand it more and then 00:37:34
we can address. 00:37:38
North SE West. 00:37:42
But there it is, there it is OK. 00:37:46
Huh. 00:37:49
All right. Well, did I give you any questions at all or was I just up here fumbling? No, we'll have some more presentation done on 00:37:51
it and then if it doesn't answer it. 00:37:56
I think you're saying most of the grocery stores that I go to, you go in and get your prescription. 00:38:01
Perhaps get a little talk to that. 00:38:10
That could that could be a question. 00:38:11
Can I manage? 00:38:14
OK. 00:38:16
Thank you, Terry. 00:38:21
Uh, any other comments from the public? 00:38:23
OK. 00:38:26
Russell, 11, of the Villains. 00:38:32
Umm, no questions, just. I think it's just a case of trying to cram too much into too little. 00:38:34
Thanks. Uh, and it's probably too late to do anything here and there on now, but for the future development. 00:38:39
I mean we got trucks backing and backing up, backing a public St. and back in. 00:38:47
That's not right. 00:38:52
We've got a a farmer drive through that's gonna be hard to access, accessible for half the people depending on which direction 00:38:53
they're coming from. 00:38:57
Umm, you've got a resident right next residence right next to the store. 00:39:02
So if the trucks come in at night, you can hear the beeping going on. Beep, beep beep. 00:39:06
Going on at night, waking up residents, it's just. 00:39:11
I just see it being it's all about the money. Let's grab as much as we can and. 00:39:14
And, uh, I think it's just, uh. 00:39:19
It's just we need to consider quality of life. I really feel like quality of life is being neglected. 00:39:22
Uh, with a lot of what's going on. And so that's my comment. Thank you. Thank you, Russell. 00:39:27
Karen Cornelius Abilities. 00:39:44
I think for the casual. 00:39:47
Renewing a prescription and picking it up. 00:39:49
That might be OK. 00:39:52
But if you've got somebody in the car with you. 00:39:53
That just has surgery that you need the medication to take home with you. 00:39:56
And they tell you that you're gonna go sit in the parking lot and then you've got to drive around again and find yourself back in 00:40:00
the queue. 00:40:04
To get the prescription would be a nightmare. 00:40:08
I say forget it. 00:40:11
So I can walk into the store and get what we need. 00:40:13
And if we need something sooner than that, which is a different pharmacist, but I think. 00:40:16
That's just a nightmare. I think Russ has it right. We are just planning so much in to so little space. 00:40:21
That we are ignoring the quality of life. 00:40:29
Thanks. 00:40:31
Thank you, Karen. 00:40:33
Hello, go ahead and close, uh, public comment. 00:40:38
Uh, Bronson, would you wanna come up and respond to uh. 00:40:43
Let's go in order. 00:40:47
With the, uh, question about paving, uh, and bricks and how we're gonna avoid cracking. 00:40:49
Yeah, so the center St. 00:40:54
Paving is I believe it's a stamped concrete. 00:40:57
That's painted. 00:41:01
These would be actually unit pavers. 00:41:02
And the concrete pavers that are individually set. 00:41:05
For materials different, they won't they won't crack. 00:41:08
Umm. 00:41:11
And. 00:41:14
I don't, I don't know which. 00:41:15
Favorite style? We have selected for this off the top of my head, but we're using. 00:41:17
We're using unit pavers all over the project. 00:41:22
So this wouldn't be the only spot where they're they're used. 00:41:26
Umm, so you know, long term maintenance I think is. 00:41:30
A lot better on a unit paver than a than a stamped concrete. 00:41:34
Umm, as far as the the question on circulation. 00:41:38
Umm, there. 00:41:43
There is an option to go inside the store to the pharmacy, so you could always pick up your. 00:41:45
Your prescription through the store. 00:41:51
The drive through is just. 00:41:54
For convenience. 00:41:56
Umm. 00:41:57
A lot of times when, at least in my experience of picking up prescriptions. 00:41:59
Usually the doctor will call it in. 00:42:04
And then you're notified when they're ready. 00:42:06
Umm, and that's when you would go to go pick them up is when they're ready. So they're not actually U. 00:42:09
There are situations where you take the prescription I guess and give it to them and they have to fill it. 00:42:15
And there's that, that time period, but. 00:42:20
That's where I think we would ask people to go park in the parking lot and then come back into the queue. 00:42:23
But the idea is that that queue would be moving pretty quickly. 00:42:28
It's just. 00:42:31
People aren't sitting in the queue in those three stalls. 00:42:33
Waiting for a prescription to be filled. They're going because they they know it's already done and they're just going to pick it 00:42:37
up. 00:42:40
So I don't. 00:42:44
I don't imagine the queue link would be. 00:42:45
Very long in there, but there there is the option to go inside the store too to pick it up. 00:42:48
And I've I've had the experience for. 00:42:53
Time to pick it up. They're filling it, it's not ready yet. So you go in the store and you. 00:42:56
Figure out a way to. 00:43:02
Half the time until it's ready. 00:43:04
Umm, could you explain to just the flow of the traffic where they get the parking? 00:43:06
Umm yeah, so umm. 00:43:12
Do I need them out? 00:43:16
Yeah, OK. It's OK. So if you come in from. 00:43:19
From the the West is left, north is up. 00:43:24
So if you're coming in from the left and you're from the West and you enter into the drive through. 00:43:28
You would enter the queue there. You'd be up to the window. Yep, keep going. All right, a little bit on the hand, Yep. So the 00:43:33
windows kind of right in there. 00:43:37
Then you'd exit. 00:43:41
Out that way and if you were asked to go and wait, you would go into the parking lot. 00:43:42
Waiting most stalls there. 00:43:48
When you're notified, it's ready to come back out and go back into the queue. 00:43:50
Where they'll be signing? Is there a discussion of signage for the dedicated parking and wayfinding? I mean that that's a 00:43:54
condition of approval that that you, you could attach to that, that that would very clearly, umm. 00:44:00
Be in appropriate condition if if you search it. 00:44:06
And then? 00:44:13
And Bronson. And that for the question too. If, if that's where, how they wanna go with it. Umm. 00:44:14
Do you have like, is that something that you look at like a minimum number of stalls that would need to be umm to accommodate 00:44:19
overflow or did the traffic impact study mentioned how many? It did not. I just said that they could use some parking. Stalls 00:44:25
could also be reserved for the pharmacy. Skewing demand is higher than anticipated. 00:44:31
I mean, if you preserve some, at least that would make sure they're not getting umm, overrun like just a general grocery. 00:44:37
For a little bit of context too, when we went through the the grocery store site plan approval. 00:44:43
And the parking lot was looked at. The parking lot is. 00:44:49
Over double the amount of stalls that's needed. 00:44:52
For the grocery store. 00:44:56
And so I'm not too worried. I mean, we can definitely designate yourself for the pharmacy, for the waiting. 00:44:58
But we do have. 00:45:04
A lot of parking in there but. 00:45:05
There is no harm in just designating some of the fourth pharmacy and. 00:45:08
If you wanna give a a quantity, we can also. 00:45:12
You know. 00:45:15
I don't know if you could put like a time condition of like let's evaluate this for a year and then we'll. 00:45:18
Solidify what that number is. 00:45:23
After you know of operations but. 00:45:26
I think it's gonna be in the pharmacy's best interest to make sure they're reserving enough spaces based on their experience. 00:45:28
Umm. 00:45:35
And then maybe if we can put back to the the elevation. 00:45:36
We can talk through that. 00:45:40
So, uh. 00:45:43
So yeah, what what you guys were explaining this is the front elevation is. 00:45:45
So your. 00:45:49
Standing like in the parking lot, looking back. 00:45:50
Toward the West. 00:45:54
Kind of confusing. This is the east elevation. 00:45:56
It's the elevation spacing you, but we're looking at it. 00:45:59
Looking West. 00:46:03
If that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Let's keep it simple. So we're looking from the parking lot back at the front of the store. 00:46:04
And the larger volume is the main entrance like where it steps up. 00:46:12
The center of that is where the entrance is into the grocery store. The pharmacy will be on the on the far left of the grocery 00:46:16
store. 00:46:20
And so the drive through you're kind of looking at. 00:46:25
The car would be facing us, sitting in the at the window of the pharmacy. Could there be a possibility of doing a door? 00:46:28
That is more like that's closer to the pharmacy. 00:46:36
So you've seen that Macy's will have like the words of that, like it's like multiple entries. Yeah, we we talked about that, but 00:46:40
because of the merchandising. 00:46:44
It doesn't work out very good to put the door over there. 00:46:49
Umm, so then if you go to the next elevation there? 00:46:53
Yeah. So this is. 00:46:56
The South elevation, we're standing. 00:46:58
Like in the street, looking back at the grocery stores from the South. 00:47:00
We're looking north. 00:47:04
And. 00:47:06
You can kind of see that larger volume of the main entry, like 4 year piece, you can see it sticking up and out. 00:47:08
We're looking at the side of it now. 00:47:15
And then the lower windows. 00:47:17
Or the pharmacy windows one of those four. 00:47:21
Will be the actual window that opens. I'm guessing it's one of the. 00:47:24
Center too, and we will be looking at the side of a car. 00:47:27
Yeah. 00:47:33
Umm, cash? Was there, uh, an auto turn exhibit in the packet that shows how the card is turned through that? Maybe that would be 00:47:35
helpful. 00:47:40
Was there a discussion ever? Because if if there are gonna be cars having to pull out, go and then go back into the parking lot, 00:47:46
they're still doing this Weird kinda U-turn. 00:47:50
Was there a discussion of having a a dual option where one they could still pull out? But could they just? 00:47:55
Go straight. 00:48:02
To then. 00:48:04
Yeah, we we actually talked about that. 00:48:07
Yeah, yeah. What is there? Is there anything blocking? Uh, yeah. There's some utilities there. Like you zoom in, there's a box. 00:48:11
I mean, I was just posing it. Yeah, we we definitely looked at that. We looked at moving the box to see if that the drive through 00:48:19
could pull straight out. 00:48:22
And join the. 00:48:26
Entrance and exit of the parking lot. 00:48:29
But the traffic? 00:48:31
Study on that. 00:48:33
Show that it was too conflicted yeah and and it could end up being that the stacking would be worse you know like cars wouldn't be 00:48:34
able to get out because. 00:48:38
Of the pharmacy queuing because they're waiting for. 00:48:42
Cars to come out of the parking. 00:48:46
Your cash. You wanna send this auto turn exhibit to you real quick. 00:48:50
So this this took uh. 00:48:58
What does it uh. 00:49:00
Uh, server A 2018 Suburban. 00:49:02
Through there and it shows you kind of the path, the will path. 00:49:06
In blue, so maybe that'll be helpful. 00:49:11
Now to reiterate. 00:49:14
We've already provided above and beyond the parking standard. 00:49:17
Right, OK. 00:49:20
It was there any consideration in moving the driveway? 00:49:22
Do you know the parking? Yeah. So yeah, we lose a few parking spaces. 00:49:27
But if we move the driveway a little bit to the right. 00:49:32
Then does that potentially address the conflict of? 00:49:36
Umm umm. 00:49:41
Not well, it does lengthen. 00:49:43
And then? 00:49:47
Yeah. 00:49:48
We're just thinking that louder. 00:49:51
The thing we did look at that we didn't look at that scenario if we moved, uh. 00:49:53
Entrance into the parking lot further what we. 00:49:57
The reason why it landed where it did? 00:49:59
Was because of proximity to the intersection. 00:50:01
And so I kind of put it that way the. 00:50:05
To travel past that. 00:50:09
That we're also looking at, like coming in front of the store. 00:50:11
So then, uh, I guess if you were exiting to come back through the parking and then exit? 00:50:14
Was also just, you know, extending the length of. 00:50:21
Uh, uh, potential stacking through there. One of the other kind of problems is. 00:50:24
It's a super short throat. 00:50:30
You know, from the street back into the parking lot. 00:50:33
Umm, and that, that's more of the problem with the cars coming out of the. 00:50:36
Of the pharmacy and joining. 00:50:41
That area is just such a short. 00:50:43
Throat, right? 00:50:47
OK. 00:50:49
Any other? 00:50:53
Things on your list, Chris. 00:50:54
Umm. 00:50:57
You said, and you did say there's an internal they can just go inside and have their prescription inside, uh. 00:51:00
I think the other two were more common, not questions. 00:51:05
OK, alright. 00:51:09
Umm. 00:51:10
All right, I. 00:51:12
Gonna open this back up to uh, public comment. Were there any other comments based off of that explanation and walk through? 00:51:14
And because you. 00:51:23
Have any? 00:51:25
Yeah, yeah. Do you have a question that you wanted to ask now? OK. Yep, I opened it back up. 00:51:27
State your name again. 00:51:33
How many square feet is this grocery store? 00:51:39
And because I know there's a calculator for figuring out parking spaces. 00:51:45
So. 00:51:54
See that and then my understanding is that for parking stacking. 00:51:56
It's 5 vehicles, not 3. 00:52:02
Maybe that's just Salt Lake. 00:52:07
County that I think it supplies pretty much across everywhere. 00:52:09
So that's. 00:52:14
Question too, because, you know, we have parking problems. 00:52:16
Didn't you hold on? 00:52:19
So I can't I can't count them. 00:52:25
I know there's calculator to figure it out. 00:52:30
I I think umm. 00:52:33
Nathan had asked a question that meets the existing requirement. So the three is what was in the standard and then? 00:52:34
Uh, requirement for stacking I think is what we, we had to meet. It was 60 feet and they've done 75. 00:52:42
And then they, uh, allocated up to three. We could discuss a bit more of dedicated spaces than for. 00:52:47
Overflow, but with the existing requirements, the applicant spent what's required there according to the current standard. 00:52:54
And and maybe just for clarification, this site plan has been approved. We are just talking about the the drive through aspects of 00:53:01
coming back for an amendment. 00:53:04
Yeah. So, yeah, that's what I think is when you're asking about the size of the grocery store and the parking, they they've 00:53:09
already met this and we did that calculation of of how many square feet equals how many parking stalls and they were well above 00:53:13
that that requirement. 00:53:17
So hopefully that helps. I, I don't, I want to stay in the grocery stores 40,000 square feet Bronson around there. 00:53:21
41. 00:53:28
42,000 square feet. 00:53:29
So yeah, you're, you're absolutely right that there's this parking minimum calculation that we did do and they are above that 00:53:31
center. 00:53:33
Yep. 00:53:37
Yeah, so the the Planning Commission tonight is just approving. 00:53:38
For making a decision on only the drive through the the site plan was approved. I wanna say in like October or November, even 00:53:42
before that. 00:53:46
And they're already starting construction. 00:53:50
That's my other question. 00:53:55
You don't approve it, then what? 00:53:56
All right. 00:54:00
Huh. We'll close public comment. Ross, did you have text? Thank you. 00:54:02
Final comments and response I I'm surprised it didn't come up, but the grocery store did start. 00:54:07
Construction, like Cash said. So we're, we're tracking, uh, our schedule to be done in November. 00:54:13
Umm. 00:54:21
A lot of like what's been done so far is some of the underground. 00:54:23
Uh, utility work. 00:54:26
And all of the site pad prep, if you go out there today, you'll see that there's a. 00:54:28
The construction fence is up. 00:54:33
The next subcontractors will mobilize. 00:54:35
On the 27th. 00:54:38
Is that Monday? 00:54:40
27th. 00:54:41
Whatever day it is, the 27th so. 00:54:43
We should start seeing, you know, a lot more action happening. 00:54:46
On site but umm sorry, what? Plans to be on the 27th. 00:54:50
The next subcontractors will mobilize on site. So like excavator coming in to dig. 00:54:55
For the Foundation. 00:55:00
Umm. 00:55:02
A lot of the materials are are being ordered right now, so. 00:55:04
Umm, we should start seeing like the in the next couple months that we'll actually see the grocery store going vertical and. 00:55:07
It'll be exciting. 00:55:17
Umm, there will be a little, uh. 00:55:19
Uh, ceremonial event on the 11th. 00:55:21
Umm, it's just a smaller kind of photo op of. 00:55:25
Like the grocery store is under construction. There's probably gonna be. 00:55:28
A press release around that time. 00:55:32
On on Bella's grocery store and then. 00:55:35
Uh, there will be. 00:55:38
Uh, some kind of grand opening event? 00:55:40
They will announce. 00:55:43
As we get closer. 00:55:45
Yeah, we're super excited. 00:55:47
OK. Thank you. Thank you. 00:55:49
All right. 00:55:51
I have one confirm and then a few comments. 00:55:53
Umm, if we're. 00:55:57
We're closing public comment now. We can all speak, OK? 00:55:59
My only real concern is the right turn. Umm. 00:56:02
We talked about it really briefly. Could you put the exhibit of the? 00:56:06
Uh, suburban. 00:56:10
Turning radius. 00:56:12
Umm OK, that unfortunately doesn't show what my only concern. 00:56:14
I'm going here. 00:56:22
Need to turn in. 00:56:23
I'm bold and nervous about like an off to power scenario where we're gonna do A7 point turn. 00:56:25
OK, in order to get in. 00:56:33
That's really my only concern with this layout. I would have hoped that. 00:56:35
That is the kind of stuff that I usually like to see with traffic engineer reports to say, yeah, even with the largest of cars, a 00:56:40
limousine could make that turn. 00:56:44
Here. 00:56:50
The 2018 Suburban is awesome if it's going at it straight. 00:56:52
So I don't want to hold out to any approvals for it. 00:56:57
Display alert. 00:57:01
Alert I'm going to, uh, move to approve it, but I'm. 00:57:02
So I'm thinking of adding a condition. 00:57:06
That we can just prove that. 00:57:09
Parts can reasonably make that turn. 00:57:12
Umm, I. 00:57:14
You can tell me if you think that is true. No, no, no, this software does it just fine. Uh. 00:57:16
Umm, I just need to see it. 00:57:25
From what is going to be the normal load of traffic? 00:57:26
And some are gonna be coming from here and then turning left. 00:57:30
But for the 1st 10 years. 00:57:34
People are gonna be going this way. 00:57:36
And if they're coming from the parking lot? 00:57:38
They're coming this way. 00:57:40
So I I just wanna make sure we can make that term safely. 00:57:41
Uh, this is uh, I apologize for having stepped out of the, uh, out of the meeting earlier. 00:57:45
I think a work call. 00:57:50
Umm, so. 00:57:51
Uh, with the site. Umm. 00:57:53
Uh, on, uh, precise plans and so forth, I mean, the applicant is still going to have to submit a, uh, amendment to revision to our 00:57:55
land service permit. 00:57:59
And our landing service permit is going to, uh, require them to go through your technical review. 00:58:04
On, on our price, we provide them some, uh, preliminary comments. 00:58:09
Umm, we, we, we can provide some preliminary comments in regards to this. 00:58:13
Uh, drive through, Umm, but uh. 00:58:17
And umm, umm, after the site plan, uh, has it's, it's uh, haven't been approved. Then after we'll be able to submit for a revi 00:58:21
revision to our advanced service permit. The advanced service permit will be OK. Umm, let's go through their actual technical. 00:58:28
Uh, review. 00:58:35
OK, there's like, for example, there's a umm. 00:58:36
Left turn, uh, uh, a left turn into the grocery store, and that's where that's been planned. 00:58:39
Uh, on that it's, it's not on their land and service permit and then, but when they, so when they submit that revision. 00:58:45
And then the city will be able to. 00:58:51
Review that to say OK and does that require a umm? 00:58:53
A left turn. Umm. 00:58:57
Uh, when like I, I left a jacket, left her online in order to make sure that it doesn't, uh, you know, uh, bog down traffic. 00:58:59
Uh, as an example, uh, and then for the drive through. 00:59:06
Uh will require the applicant to show. 00:59:10
That's, uh, the turning radiuses are adequate. 00:59:13
As well, uh, to to that level of detail. 00:59:16
All right. I, I, I will still be requesting that specific issue. No, that's not the address. So that is not the address in the 00:59:19
technical review. That's perfect. That's fine. OK. 00:59:23
Umm. 00:59:27
You just other comments and then I'll stop talking. 00:59:29
Umm, for me? 00:59:32
The issue isn't about cramming too much in the small space. Umm, really? This? This is a choice of an architect. 00:59:33
Umm, to the drive through or no drive through? 00:59:39
He's putting in the grocery store and putting in a pharmacy. 00:59:42
That's honestly something that the community needs, and so I'm grateful for this. I don't want any of this to seem like I'm not 00:59:45
grateful. 00:59:49
I think the community needs it. 00:59:53
Me, I always walk in to get my prescription. Walgreens has an awesome drive through. Maybe I've never used it but I know people 00:59:55
do. 01:00:00
So I'm grateful. 01:00:04
That it is a resource for people who may not be. 01:00:06
As incredibly fit as I am where I can get out of my car. 01:00:10
You know, maybe there this doesn't happen naturally because I walk in to get my prescription. 01:00:13
Uh, but there are many others who might have a broken foot that are unable to do so. So in that sense, I'm glad. 01:00:18
That an amendment. 01:00:25
An amendment is before us tonight. 01:00:27
To consider adding a drive through. 01:00:29
To a plan that was already approved that wouldn't have a. 01:00:32
As we said, the grocery store is already under construction. 01:00:36
It already had a pharmacy component. 01:00:39
This is SIM because all of that was approved months ago. 01:00:41
This is simply adding a drive through component. 01:00:44
Which is greater accessibility for those who may need it? 01:00:47
So in that sense, I'm very grateful for it. 01:00:51
Umm. 01:00:53
I think we may be getting too involved. 01:00:55
In a private business decision on how they conduct their business. 01:00:58
For me that's like forcing Target to put their drop off box somewhere they don't have to put up. 01:01:02
Grocery drop off location. 01:01:08
They did that as a business decision. 01:01:09
A drive through, I think as a business business decision. I don't wanna get too involved in telling them how to conduct their 01:01:12
business. Where. 01:01:16
How many? 01:01:20
The spots they need to block off for that. 01:01:21
I think that's gonna come as they conduct their business and they realize, OK, we usually need to, we usually need three. I 01:01:24
personally don't think. 01:01:28
Government needs to get involved in that. I think that's a private person, business owner running their business that can make 01:01:32
that decision. 01:01:35
Quality of life in that sense, but that's in the eye of the beholder. When I was a 20 something, I would have loved to have a 01:01:39
grocery grocery store right next to my apartment. 01:01:43
And that's why this is apartments right next door grocery store. 01:01:48
If I didn't want that, I wouldn't have lived in Washington DC and then urban area. 01:01:51
I wouldn't have but my own personal taste. 01:01:57
My ideal place to live in the town, Manhattan, it's packed. It's crazy. And some people would say that sounds miserable. 01:02:01
Other people love it. 01:02:09
In fact, millions of people love it. That's why they live there. 01:02:11
OK. And so? 01:02:13
I like that we're offering diversity. 01:02:15
Here in Vineyard. 01:02:18
There's. 01:02:20
Low density, medium density and high density. 01:02:22
Because we want to be a community that attracts a variety of people. 01:02:25
And so I like that and I thank you. 01:02:28
And all of our other applicants and developers who bring in a variety of uses and a variety of stuff. 01:02:31
Umm. 01:02:38
So like I said, really my only concern is that right turn area. 01:02:39
Uh, I support the project. 01:02:43
Umm, I would just like to see further clarification on that. So that's my only thought. 01:02:45
Any other comments? 01:02:51
Do you have a motion? 01:02:52
No one else wants to say anything. Then I will move to approve this amendment as it is presented. 01:02:58
On the condition. 01:03:04
That, uh, the right turn radius there, as I talked about previously, is addressed in the technical review. 01:03:06
And that, uh, specifics on the plan is at least presented when it comes to the overflow area. You know what I mean when I say 01:03:13
overflow area, right? I'm so sorry for whoever's driving this motion right now because it is very meandering. Umm. 01:03:20
I hope you get every word of it. Umm. 01:03:27
The parking space is if they don't have it immediately. 01:03:30
The only one. 01:03:34
How's that? 01:03:36
I think that was good did that. 01:03:39
Pay oversight that did not include the signage though. 01:03:40
I just want them to present a plan for it. I don't know if we need to necessarily require, but that's just part of my. I'm just 01:03:44
asking the planning. Can you account for overview sign into that? 01:03:48
Yeah. Do you, do you want that presented to like in the technical view committee, the DRC planning staff Planning Commission, what 01:03:53
level? I don't think any special Planning Commission again. 01:03:58
Or city engineer just said there's additional technical review after that. And so I'd like to address during that technical review 01:04:06
many, OK. 01:04:11
Is there a second for that motion? 01:04:18
One second. 01:04:22
All right, uh, and this is just. 01:04:24
Pro California all in favor? 01:04:26
Alright, alright. 01:04:28
All right, real, real quick, I can address that last question about like what a state they don't approve this because this is a 01:04:30
conditional use in in the state of Utah technically can consider the permitted use, but we can put conditions. 01:04:36
Such as what you thought, uh, making steel do? 01:04:41
Tonight where we want to have further analyzes to make sure that it won't create conflict. 01:04:44
Umm, But because it is, you know, conditional use, there's not much we could do to prevent it from happening. Only those 01:04:49
conditions to make sure that it works well with our community. 01:04:53
So just as a note that. 01:05:00
When we get more of those type of applications, you know that that you take the use applications is very important. 01:05:02
That's to understand perfect, not denied. They just wouldn't put that address here. 01:05:09
Uh-huh. We're gonna move to Item 6 at the work session, and we're gonna discuss the Forge Regionally Significant Entertainment Use 01:05:15
Certification. 01:05:20
Great. Thank you, Chair. 01:05:29
OK, umm. 01:05:35
So this this was an item. If you remember back, this would have been December 2023. 01:05:37
Umm, when the, uh, Dakota Pacific, umm. 01:05:43
Kinko crabs do you? 01:05:47
He's coming. Oh, he's coming. OK, great. 01:05:49
Right on time. 01:05:52
They umm. 01:05:55
They already made a decision, actually. 01:05:57
It wasn't good. It's a work session. It's working. Yeah. Yeah. So this is just a work session. Umm. So this is opportunity for the 01:06:00
Planning Commission to be able to ask questions. 01:06:05
Umm, to be able to, to analyze the site a little bit more detail if there's additional information that you would like into 01:06:09
consideration, and I'll provide the umm, advocate the opportunity to, umm, to, umm, uh, get, get that information. We do have an 01:06:14
economic analysis that was provided. 01:06:19
Showing kind of the regional nature of the of the use. 01:06:24
Umm, so during that December uh, 2023 meeting, the City Council, uh. 01:06:26
They provided the Planning Commission the authority to, uh, to make this, uh, search certification. So the certification is going 01:06:32
to be, uh. 01:06:35
Umm, to have a regionally significant entertainment anchor on the site. 01:06:40
Umm. And then there's some umm. 01:06:45
There's some kind of minimum requirements or umm, bullet points for your consideration that are laid out in the development 01:06:47
agreement. 01:06:51
Umm, but essentially, umm, some of the things that we need to look for is all seasons. So a A use that can be used umm. 01:06:54
Throughout the the year, uh. 01:07:02
Umm across visitors and tourists from a broader geographical area beyond. 01:07:05
Vineyard has an economic or social impact on the region. Uh. 01:07:09
Umm, substantial physical footprint relative to the entertainment land use areas. Land use area is gonna be the forge. 01:07:14
Umm, capacity to accommodate a large number of visitors. Cultural, recreational importance. 01:07:20
Uh, so the facility, uh. 01:07:26
Umm, it's one that can be used for hosting events or activities, and it speaks of, uh, those of a cult, Cultural, recreational, 01:07:28
entertainment. 01:07:32
Uh, nature. It could be things like sporting events, festivals, concerts. 01:07:37
Umm, does it have a regional draw of at least 10 miles? 01:07:42
More is even better. 01:07:46
Umm, but 10 is kind of what's called out in the, uh, in the development agreement. 01:07:48
Umm, and just kind of the overall economic impact, uh, the entertainment anchor shall contribute to the local and also the 01:07:53
regional economy by generating revenue from the entertainment anchor and nearby businesses. 01:08:00
So like is it helping to bring customers to the the nearby businesses? 01:08:06
Umm, let's go back to the site plan. 01:08:12
So this is a conceptual site plan showing the umm the location the applicant is proposing that S block umm. I did bring the 01:08:15
rendering. 01:08:20
Yeah, and so, umm. 01:08:28
I'll I'll, I'll let like umm, Steve present that the site information. 01:08:30
Umm, so in your staff report it lists out kind of those, those both points in the development agreement? 01:08:35
Umm. And so I I would just. 01:08:41
Ask you to to kind of hear them out and then any questions that you have to see if he achieved and for all clients. 01:08:44
Umm ask them and you'll have umm. 01:08:51
And then that's going to have until next meeting to, to, to provide you, umm, those, uh, responses. 01:08:53
Great. Good. Good evening. 01:09:02
Uh, yeah. So just over a year ago we got the development agreement approved and the threshold issue. That's really. 01:09:06
Critical to allowing development move forward is the identification of this entertainment anchor. At the time the development 01:09:12
agreement was approved, we had. 01:09:15
Several ideas swirling and folks interested. 01:09:19
Umm, a lot of those ideas were focused on what's kind of called entertainment category, right? So we've got. 01:09:22
Pickle ball in a large restaurant kind of on the same. 01:09:28
Compound or. 01:09:31
You, you know, they've got these, umm. 01:09:32
Uh, well, they have all kinds of entertainment now, from shuffleboard to, you know, batting cages. You combine a restaurant and 01:09:36
some kind of activity, and that's kind of a big trend. So that was a lot of the focus. 01:09:41
And we went to a lot of the national teams and, umm, we had. 01:09:46
Some significant interest, but in the end. 01:09:50
Alcohol sales in Utah, it just wasn't a primary market. And if they were coming to Utah. 01:09:52
Uh, Utah County wasn't where they were gonna put their first flag. So anybody on a more national scale? I probably talked to 20. 01:09:57
And that just kind of be kind of continued to run in into, uh, in, into a dead end. 01:10:04
And, umm. 01:10:10
And so. 01:10:12
This is critical to us because the development agreement ties our residential development progress. 01:10:14
In fact, let me just talk to that real quick. Uh, maybe I didn't get. 01:10:20
That one pulled up here. Hold on. 01:10:26
Umm, well, maybe the last time, but. 01:10:32
This is the language in the development agreement. It's a lot of words that didn't mean to put that much in there, but basically 01:10:39
the entertainment anchor has to start construction. 01:10:42
For any more than 25 residential units to be released. 01:10:46
And that really has to be complete before any more than 325 presidential units. 01:10:50
It can be released. 01:10:54
So it's critical to the timing of our residential development that was part of the negotiation. 01:10:55
And the second piece is uh. 01:10:59
Umm. 01:11:01
Then we said, well, let's focus on some commercial development then right now kind of along the road, let's build the retail. 01:11:03
Well, what we didn't want to do is build retail. That would preclude the site that the Entertainment Tinker ultimately wanted. 01:11:09
So we found ourselves in kind of a position where we could not advance development. 01:11:15
You know, we felt like we could have moved the retail forward last year, but we were not able to without the identification of the 01:11:19
entertainment anchor. So. 01:11:22
We have been talking to Momentum Climbing Gym for some time. 01:11:25
And there was always kind of an economic gap. Umm, John's here, he's the CFO of, of Momentum Climate and. 01:11:28
We had a lot of discussions back and forth on on land price and you know, umm. 01:11:34
They're kind of willing to kind of go to a more industrial area where we think that you should really come to an entertainment 01:11:39
area. 01:11:41
And so, umm, a lot of back and forth. 01:11:44
Basically what we're agreeing to do is subsidized. 01:11:47
And a little per purchase for momentum to come in. Check this box, bring this use to an area, combine it with food and beverage. 01:11:50
And really let this be a hub and, and we'll be able to talk about sales and some other things and regional significance. But 01:11:55
really the significant impact is as big, if not bigger than anything if we combine, you know, the food and beverages associated 01:12:00
with it. 01:12:04
As anything, we were looking at last year. So I'm pretty excited about it. I think it's a great opportunity. 01:12:09
Umm, so the. 01:12:15
Again, these are the threshold requirements in the development agreement. 01:12:17
It's got to kind of be a substantial footprint of the entertainment land use area which I can show you whether it is basically a 01:12:21
four acre. 01:12:24
Uh, Lot 1 on the corner of Mill Road and umm. 01:12:28
And then your character, we're asking for a different location and we'll talk about why, but the size and capacity. 01:12:32
Similar to to what's agreed to or or discussed in in in this bullet. 01:12:39
Uh, it talks about sporting events being one of the, you know, categories to meet the cultural or recreational importance at least 01:12:44
10 miles. 01:12:48
John will be able to talk about zip codes and what his typical stores draw, but we've also used Placer AI reports to kind of show 01:12:52
that and build that up. 01:12:55
And then the economic impact, umm, we've got, we've got a study from Zion Bank. 01:12:59
Umm. I'm gonna. 01:13:05
I'll just share for a second and pull up my other. 01:13:08
Make sure I can find it here. 01:13:14
Www.whileyouredoingthat thanks. 01:13:27
As to umm, as as we talked about the proposed location, could we also put up the satellite imagery, just Google Maps as well to 01:13:28
refer to it? Thank you. 01:13:32
So what is the proposed climate? 01:13:39
Company. 01:13:42
Yeah, so. 01:13:43
But I think next on our our list is to talk about have have John come up. He'll talk a little bit about the momentum. 01:13:44
Planning business and their business plan specifically for the state. 01:13:51
Umm, good evening. Umm, For the record, I'm John Colbert, this CFO for Momentum Indoor Climbing. 01:14:01
Umm, we're a Utah based company. We originated with a location in Sandy. 01:14:07
And we have since grown to seven locations, four of which are in Utah, 2IN. 01:14:13
The Houston area and one in Seattle. 01:14:19
Umm. 01:14:22
One of the things that, uh, we're looking at when looking at Vineyard specifically is the close proximity to the freeway. 01:14:25
As well as just access for. 01:14:33
Essentially all of Utah County to come to this location and. 01:14:38
20 to 30 minutes. I mean, I live in Santaquin. 01:14:42
And it took me 30 minutes to get here. 01:14:45
Umm, most of our locations we have. 01:14:48
75% of our customers live within about a 20 minute radius. 01:14:51
So. 01:14:56
Considering that the majority of Utah County falls within that threshold, so. 01:14:57
Umm, have a feeling that a location like this would draw. 01:15:03
Uh, a significant customer base from, from outside of vineyard as well as from within. 01:15:07
Umm, to give you a brief idea of the business that we are currently seeing. 01:15:14
Inside of Utah. 01:15:21
Our location in Lehigh last year. 01:15:23
UH had roughly 140,000 different daily visits. 01:15:26
And that was 140,000, it was 25,000 unique customers, so. 01:15:32
Quite a large number of people that come into the region. 01:15:38
Umm, we just opened a new gym in. 01:15:41
Uh, Midvale last month. 01:15:45
And we've already had 25,000. 01:15:47
With 10,000 unit customers. 01:15:50
Umm, so it's a. It's a. 01:15:54
It's a sport that is. 01:15:57
Quite large already, and it's continuing to grow. 01:15:59
Umm, Salt Lake County by itself already has 6 climbing gyms. 01:16:03
For a population of 1.2 million people. 01:16:09
Utah County currently has two smaller climbing gyms for seven 700,000 people so. 01:16:12
There is definitely an opportunity for the county. 01:16:19
Uh, we are absolutely interested in building a gym. 01:16:23
In Utah County and we would certainly love to do it in vineyards, so. 01:16:27
Umm, you talk about the building a little bit and, uh. 01:16:32
Yeah. 01:16:36
So, umm, what we're hoping to do is build a a facility roughly 30,000 square feet. 01:16:38
Umm, if you have driven. 01:16:45
On I-15 past Momentum Sandy, it's roughly 17,000 square feet with a mezzanine that adds a few 1000 square feet for 20,000. 01:16:48
So this would be a little bit larger. 01:16:58
It would contain a rope Bay that's a heightened rope of about 50 to 60 feet. 01:17:01
That would, uh, allow us to have. 01:17:07
Uh, a taller, taller walls for ropes, as well as a shorter area for just bouldering only where they climb onto a wall and fall 01:17:10
down onto paths. 01:17:14
Which is what a typical full service gym entails. 01:17:20
Umm, our current gym in Utah County up in Lehigh is a bouldering only gym so it does not have ropes. 01:17:24
And it is roughly 20,000 square feet, so it is a smaller location. 01:17:32
Than what we're proposing. 01:17:37
And then, umm, I'm sure most of you are familiar with the query and Provo that's in between the two universities. It's about 01:17:39
12,000 square feet. 01:17:43
With ropes. 01:17:48
Umm, the. 01:17:50
Go up about 40 feet, so not quite as tall as what we're proposing, but umm. 01:17:52
Uh, to give you an idea of all of our other gyms. 01:17:58
Uh, our, our gym in Mill Creek is 40,000 square feet. Our new one at Fort Union area mid Valley is 47,000 square feet. So this is 01:18:03
a smaller footprint than some of the gyms we've done in Salt Lake, but still. 01:18:10
Uh, quite a bit larger than what Utah County currently has. 01:18:17
Umm, this would essentially. 01:18:22
Double the current square footage that are the other gyms in the region already provide. 01:18:24
So you mentioned that Corey has 40 foot, uh, rope, uh, roughly 40 foot and you're proposing the ability to do, uh. 01:18:30
So. 01:18:39
If in case any of you are familiar with the with the Olympic event of speed climbing. 01:18:40
Umm, the the minimum height for a speed climbing wall is 52 feet. 01:18:46
And so the minimum ceiling height typically is 54 to 55. 01:18:52
Umm, arrange that. 01:18:58
We haven't decided if that's. 01:19:00
What we want to put in a gym in Utah County, but that's typically what we. 01:19:02
What we built for a portion of our gems just to just to facilitate that. 01:19:07
Umm having a speed wall also increases the opportunity for us to have larger events that are more. 01:19:14
UH, regional, not just the state of Utah, but the state of Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, bringing their competitive team into the 01:19:22
region to do uh, larger events. So. 01:19:28
And the eater. 01:19:38
Payment. 01:19:40
Portion would be what have you kind of. I'm just saying that those were the kind of entertainment anchors we were first pursuing. 01:19:41
So now let's talk about where this would fit in the site a little bit. And again, John? 01:19:48
Might step back up and help a little bit. 01:19:53
It's a pizza at the top. 01:19:56
So originally that red dash, that entertainment block up there, that's where the development agreement currently talks about it 01:20:02
going and it says it needs to be a substantial part of that block. Again, that's about four acres. 01:20:08
We would like to leave that. 01:20:15
And 100% commercial, make that similar to what it was before kind of this food court area. 01:20:17
Restaurant. 01:20:23
Food and beverage heavy and then put. 01:20:24
The, uh, the climbing gym just to the across what's called Cauldron Rd. today and have it still connected, be connected. 01:20:26
But not necessarily pick up a substantial part of that. So that could be its own thing. You go there to eat and get entertained. 01:20:33
You can have events. 01:20:37
Still there and then you can still have this kind of substantially tall building still connected to it. 01:20:40
And everybody can use the services between the two. So let me show you a site plan here in a little bit. 01:20:45
So yeah, this is, you know, the northern. 01:20:54
Portion of our of our development, we don't own this block here. This block here is not part of the development agreement, but 01:20:57
there's one kind of behind the theater that is. 01:21:00
And this is what we presented as a phase one when we were talking about in the terms of development agreement. 01:21:04
With this block here being. 01:21:10
You know, restaurant heavy. 01:21:13
Having a lot of patios and then potentially having some kind of center active area. 01:21:15
Where people can. 01:21:19
Fire pits, there could be some events, there could be some long games, right with the retail association kind of comes together 01:21:21
and hosts some events. 01:21:24
And so across the street here we could put about a 30,000 square foot building. 01:21:28
Again, this would be quite a bit taller than the buildings across the street, so you still feel some presence of it from Vineyard 01:21:32
Connector. 01:21:34
Umm, as well as you know, when you're in the outdoor area. 01:21:38
We'll talk a little bit about the position, but one of the thoughts we've had is, you know, can we get some glass and, and 01:21:40
interest for the visual transparency from that block and from Vineyard Connector when you're coming down Mill Rd. like you're 01:21:45
seeing the activity of that area. 01:21:49
And and visually connecting it that way and then putting some adjacent parking next to it. 01:21:54
How that parking works out, you know, some of the adjacent development will be dependent upon us of course, that future 01:21:58
development, but. 01:22:01
This is what we're proposing for a site location, so. 01:22:05
That would be a variance. Umm. 01:22:09
Because from from putting it up here on the entertainment block. 01:22:10
Umm, before we move on from site plan. 01:22:15
Umm, I think it's fantastic. Can we just quickly go to? 01:22:18
Google Maps. 01:22:23
So I can see how the site plan relates to what's existing out there. 01:22:24
This question like that works. 01:22:29
Umm, no, the glare from the light that's right here is just clinking stuff. OK, thank you. 01:22:31
So this is the file I'll kind of zoom in, but you'll see at the scene off here to the right where my cursor is at. 01:22:40
And you have the venue connector coming down here, Geneva Rd. 01:22:46
And then Mill Rd. So everything kind of undeveloped right here. That is the Forge. 01:22:50
So maybe point point to where we're talking about, I'm sorry, I'm going back. 01:22:58
And just to be 100% clear, then the climbing gym we're placing, yeah, right. Kind of across the lead of the land right there. 01:23:03
Thank you. 01:23:16
So one of the topics of discussion has been, well, what? What will this look like and and can it be attractive? 01:23:17
Umm can I add to the overall vibe of the area and bring again just some visual energy? 01:23:23
And and be an asset. And so we just kind of pulled some representative imagery. 01:23:30
And what? 01:23:34
I think in discussions with Momentum and others, you know where you put the glass. Obviously you can't, you can't put a full wall 01:23:35
of glass because you're trying to put climbing walls in there. But can you use the glass smartly? 01:23:41
So there's, umm. 01:23:47
You know, some visual what's going on there. John will tell you they don't really want a lot of natural light coming in and 01:23:49
sunshine. People go to those indoor experiences and they. 01:23:53
You know, but you don't need the heat from the sun, so you have to use it sparingly in a climbing gym. But can you use it wisely 01:23:57
again to make the area attractive? Lighting, right? And then just the overall croissant to bring some interest to the area. 01:24:03
This is the place where AI data umm. 01:24:12
And we don't need to get into the details too much. John can probably give us better actual visit terms and place your AI can but. 01:24:14
Umm, just showing this is this. 01:24:22
Sandy location. 01:24:25
You know, you see all that blue out there. Those are people coming from those areas to get to the gym. So I showed A5 and A10 mile 01:24:26
radius to show that this is truly growing. 01:24:31
Beyond 10 miles to come. 01:24:35
To the family location. 01:24:37
And then the next one was the Mill Creek, same thing. You can just see people are coming from the whole valley. 01:24:39
To come to that Mill Creek gym, umm, obviously heaviest within that five mile radius, but. 01:24:44
But a broad group coming in from further distances. 01:24:48
Last, is that the fiscal impact, umm, you know we put up there, the estimated sales for this site would be like, you know, three 01:24:53
and a half million. 01:24:57
When we're looking at entertainment type users. 01:25:01
We were talking about. 01:25:03
5:00 to 7:00 depending on the user. 01:25:05
So this is a little bit less, but you're combining 2 uses, right? You got this active use. 01:25:07
You've got a food and beverage. 01:25:11
Well, we've got food and beverage. In fact, there's 60,000 feet of food of of commercial across the street, right. 01:25:13
And now we're also bringing in the sales of, of of the climate gym. So together we're actually exceeding the overall impact I 01:25:19
think what is one entertainment. 01:25:23
Would it provided? 01:25:27
But. 01:25:29
Uh, Zion Bank to this? 01:25:31
Study for 70,000 of revenues for specific purpose UMM in those different categories. 01:25:33
And then there's some kind of non specific taxes that go probably more to the counting. 01:25:38
And then we thought it was appropriate to say again, we can't really develop our retail across the street until we place our 01:25:44
anchor. 01:25:47
And so the enzyme bank also just. 01:25:51
Did a little bit of a study to say, well you bring. 01:25:54
You know, three to four restaurants there. You have some other retail uses. You know, there's another 100 to $150,000 per year in 01:25:56
in taxes to the. 01:26:00
To the city by bringing in this entertainment. 01:26:04
Anchor momentum is considered the anchor. 01:26:08
That's what we're proposing, we're saying. 01:26:11
Can momentum. 01:26:13
Climbing gym. 01:26:16
Can just meet the requirements of the development agreement, which I'll put back up here again. 01:26:17
To qualify for an entertainment anchor. 01:26:23
And then allow us to proceed, as the development agreement allows, by having placed in our team anchor. 01:26:26
So that is the request, John. Anything else you wanna add up to that? 01:26:34
Questions. 01:26:44
Umm, when you were talking about the glass component and showed the just frontages of other climbing gyms, umm, I thought all the 01:26:47
architecture was beautiful. 01:26:51
And so the intent was to mimic at least in some way, shape or form while also being cognizant of what is even realistic for the 01:26:56
the intent is how do we bring architectural in that adds to the overall vibe and fill of the area, not just a metal box. 01:27:04
Perfect. 01:27:13
And so that's always a little bit of a challenge with, with climate. Jim does not, umm, you know, a higher margin business. Hence 01:27:13
we've had a lot of discussions on, you know, what should, what should pricing be at? And so that's where we're kind of having to 01:27:18
say, OK, we're gonna subsidized this to, to make it happen. We're actually gonna bring it in. And we've even talked about 01:27:22
enhancing some of the astrologers to make sure that it all works together with our own dollars. Yeah, because the biggest concern 01:27:27
is that. 01:27:31
Though you often see these in industrial areas. 01:27:36
It's not an industrial use and so I really wanna make sure it has a nice attractive. 01:27:39
Umm, facade there. 01:27:44
So that it's inviting, right? And I think one thing that. 01:27:46
Umm, one thing that we tried to to consider in that location is the fact that we can put, we can put plenty of glass in. 01:27:50
What we've learned in the past is we don't wanna have the glass facing South or facing certain directions to put the sun right in 01:28:00
your eyes while you're climbing, right? 01:28:05
And so that north and east. 01:28:10
Facing on that corner that people can see as they drive in. 01:28:14
That would be the ideal place to have the glass. So, so we're trying to be, uh. 01:28:18
Uh, cognizant of the of of the city and of the desired effect while trying to figure out the best location for us to be able to. 01:28:25
And I'm gonna just go to some. 01:28:35
Of the images, this was the image again of our phase one. 01:28:39
Of the retail this is that entertainment block. 01:28:42
That we're talking about and then this gym would be sitting kind of over here in this great spot today. 01:28:45
So again, if you have some glass and connectivity with some real interest on that side, yeah, that's why we have interest in. 01:28:51
And making sure that the sod feels right. 01:28:58
Excellent. 01:29:02
So I know in Salt Lake County that they have, they have like the National Climbing USA or something bringing the headquarters 01:29:04
there. Do you anticipate? 01:29:08
And out there, some gyms have expressed concerns because of the consolidation to that. 01:29:11
Would that have any impact on this? 01:29:16
Are you? I'm sorry, John, we'll have to get stuck. For the record, it doesn't pick you up in the record. 01:29:20
So so Momentum has actually been chosen to partner with USA Climbing to run that gem. So umm, you would anticipate then any? I do 01:29:25
not believe it would have a negative impact on Utah County in any way. 01:29:32
Same thing as positive synergy yeah, they just opened the Midvale location despite right yes so we and and we're working on 01:29:40
opening a very small location in Trolley Square that would be even closer to that location so. 01:29:47
We don't anticipate that it would be a negative impact on the local business. 01:29:54
Did we just mess the ice climbing portion of the wall? I heard rumors at one point filling it up. 01:30:02
What? What other questions do you have? 01:30:13
What? What are the relevant questions do you have? 01:30:16
I have none at this time. 01:30:22
OK, alright. 01:30:24
I'd love to get some public comment too. OK, great. Get some questions. Is there any questions or comments from the public? 01:30:25
Please state your name. 01:30:35
Frustrating planning, not Planning Commission. Geez. 01:30:39
Uh yes, so, so I've spent a lot of hours on this. I love climbing gyms absolutely love them. I'm so good uh, that that's a 01:30:42
potential option for this. 01:30:46
Umm, one one thing that was missing in the staff report and in your description of the I. 01:30:51
Uh, requirements that we come up with as Planning Commission in 2023 is, uh, that it's unique to the county. 01:30:57
Umm. 01:31:04
And uh. 01:31:05
Well, I appreciate. 01:31:07
Uh, the possibility of having a climbing gym. 01:31:09
Umm, I was just wondering, just wanted that to be clear, that's not up on there, that's it's unique to the accounting. Just wanted 01:31:12
you guys to be aware of that. Uh, the other thing, umm. 01:31:17
I am curious with the entertainment district with the restaurants and stuff. 01:31:22
If it will stay like the pictures. 01:31:27
We're portraying with a large. 01:31:29
Space in the middle, uh, kind of almost park space in the middle or how that's actually gonna be portrayed, Uh, usually when, uh. 01:31:32
On the Planning Commission, when we were presented with something. 01:31:40
Uh, we would get pictures of things and a lot of times developers would show us pictures and then we'd get the final product and 01:31:43
they wouldn't look anything like pictures, so. 01:31:47
I just wanna make sure that, uh, something like that. 01:31:52
Is like the pictures that if it's showing a park space in the middle, that it's clear that there will be a park space in the 01:31:55
middle. And, and then my only other, uh, concern with timing gym across the street is, uh, how, how you're gonna connect that you 01:32:01
want people to use the restaurant, Uh, if it's an anchor that's trying to bring in sales. 01:32:07
Tax umm. 01:32:14
You want people to. 01:32:15
Leave the climbing gym and immediately like be in front of restaurants. 01:32:17
So that don't go and get food. 01:32:20
Uh, with the parking lot being right in front of climbing gym. 01:32:22
They'll just get in their car. 01:32:26
Uh, I'm just kind of wondering what the connectivity is there and how you can best, uh, utilize that connectivity. 01:32:27
Have to be sales tax and have it be easier for people to get around. 01:32:34
Thanks, Bryce. 01:32:38
Uh, additional public comment. 01:32:40
OK, we'll close public comment and. 01:32:44
And if we could have the. 01:32:46
Question come back up. 01:32:49
So the first question was or it was a comment that should be unique to the county. I actually think this is one of the very first 01:32:50
items I was involved in when I got on the Commission. 01:32:55
So I don't know, Price has spent a lot of time on this, so, uh, I'd love to have some discussion on it. What's really. 01:32:59
Going to make this unique to the county. What's special about the gym? 01:33:06
Yeah, uh, well. 01:33:12
1st, I gotta go back and make sure I understand what the development agreement says around unique or or maybe then I don't know if 01:33:14
that was just like that. That was the discussion on the intent, which I can certainly honor as well. 01:33:19
Umm, but as you heard John say, there's no climbing gym like this. You talk, Johnny. 01:33:25
Alright, we're talking double the size of anything that's. 01:33:31
Currently here that has, you know, the full service of suites besides their own bouldering gym which is. 01:33:34
But just a little bit of a different product, so. 01:33:39
Umm, you know Utah County doesn't have this today. 01:33:42
There's nothing like it. I don't know how you get. 01:33:48
You know how how how that doesn't meet the unique definition to me, but. 01:33:50
Do you, do you have the language of what? Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say in the umm. 01:33:54
The development agreement that was approved by the City Council and we can relist into it, but. 01:34:00
Umm, the the development agreement doesn't have. 01:34:04
U unique as a standard. I do remember that in Planning Commission that that was that it is in the minutes and then it's the 01:34:07
Planning Commission umm. 01:34:11
Umm, so that yeah, it it it's not in the, it's not in like the signed version. Yeah, this is the language that defines the 01:34:15
requirements that. 01:34:19
So yeah. 01:34:24
I I, and I mean you've been looking for quite a while for a draw like this. Umm. 01:34:26
How close have you come to other types of facilities? 01:34:32
That may fit. Yeah. We like I said, it's been a little bit of a struggle with anybody that's got a large food and beverage 01:34:37
component because those often times are, you know, alcohol serving places with an activity. 01:34:42
And so, you know, in my pursuit, I even talked to the real estate guy over Top Golf, who was real estate guy when this came. 01:34:48
I just said like you brought this here, like why can't you bring what you're doing now? He's in a different business and he just 01:34:55
said, look, we were, we had exhausted all our primary markets. 01:34:59
Alright, we were. 01:35:04
We had a mandate to grow. 01:35:06
So we went ahead and. 01:35:07
And did this here, he said. I won't do it. Uh, you know, I've got too many primary markets to go after right now. That's what we 01:35:09
continue to run in. 01:35:12
I mean, we've talked to like some of the family fun centers in Utah. 01:35:16
They're not interested and they're concerned about the location of, of the, the theater. A lot of a lot of the theaters the, the, 01:35:19
the large mode, they're talking about adding more entertainment type uses in addition to the theaters. And so that's kind of got 01:35:25
some of those uses spooked. They're also financially struggling. 01:35:31
Umm, or I don't know if they're struggling, but. 01:35:37
This wasn't a growth area that they wanted to necessarily attack or feel good about, so. 01:35:40
I can tell you. 01:35:45
I'm bringing you this with concessions on our side because we think it's a really good option that we have some certainty to. 01:35:46
Without it, I don't know. 01:35:50
You know, we're, we're kind of blank slate a little bit on how, how do we find entertainment acres. 01:35:55
And also I mean this is for you to make a determination. I mean U unique is. 01:35:59
Umm, you know that that that's something that's that's up for you know, umm, you know, you, you guys have to make that 01:36:03
determination. If it's visa, it's a unique category, umm. 01:36:09
And you you need to do the third time site planning and stuff. 01:36:14
To that design aspect, yeah, yeah. So if you wanted to, you could. 01:36:17
Yeah. So so that they would come, come back for that. But as far as declining in itself being unique? 01:36:21
Umm, you know, just as a as a category now. But how could and? But there's only a couple of them. 01:36:28
But then how could you make this? 01:36:33
But thi thi this one you take and size is is is 1 I I mean like the the largest one in this company more customers the the design 01:36:35
of it. 01:36:40
Umm, is it, uh, it's, it's based. I could, I could host events, CLI climate events and there's some, some things like that that 01:36:44
that we could discuss. Doesn't necessarily. 01:36:49
Being like the category. So that's that. That would be up. 01:36:53
For your consideration, yeah. If you're a climate athlete, would you call this unique for Utah County? 01:36:56
So this would be a variance from the original to move the anchor location, but we're considering it 2 step, uh, combined 01:37:03
experience of food and this I, I'd imagine that. 01:37:08
And that should get to to Bryce's other point of that continuity of. 01:37:13
I think part of the experience that would have to be the design. What is the design that takes you from food? 01:37:17
To the entertainment, climbing from climbing back to the food and that pedestrian experience. 01:37:23
That would make it maybe then somewhat unique compared to other gyms and. 01:37:28
And and have continuity between the two areas. 01:37:33
Yeah. And part of this leads to the business terms as to why we're putting them down here. 01:37:36
To be fully transparent, the preferred location by the business was to go behind the theaters. 01:37:41
Right. The the business themselves, people come to the climbing gym, right? So, but we said, boy, we really want this to feel 01:37:46
integrated. 01:37:50
And so we kind of settled on here. 01:37:53
Between the the different businesses. 01:37:56
But I, I guess I would say again, you're talking about a 50 foot. 01:38:00
50 to 60 foot piece of the building right here. 01:38:04
You've got a crosswalk right here. 01:38:07
It's not like it's a four lane Rd. between them right? This is a 2 lane Rd. with. 01:38:10
Parallel parking on the street, right? It's a. 01:38:15
It's a, it's already kind of got the bulb outs and ways to calm the traffic there, so. 01:38:18
If you're sitting in one of those restaurants, you're looking at the climbing gym. If you're in the in the climbing gym on the 01:38:23
wall and you're looking at the glass, you're seeing. 01:38:26
Those restaurants, it's gonna be pretty clear as you pull out their food and beverage right there. 01:38:29
Umm, it's, it's, it's true that they don't have to walk by the food and beverage to get to it, but if they're, if they're hungry, 01:38:33
it's right there. Well, see that I mean to kind of Bryce's point, though, like if bringing people into the gym, that could be then 01:38:38
going and you know, I. 01:38:43
Patron the the restaurant. Maybe it would help to understand what is on that block because. 01:38:48
The the loan agreement isn't extremely SUS. 01:38:54
Specific. It's not calling out like a legal description. It's saying 4.8 acres of the entertainment area. 01:38:57
Umm, and so the, the depending on on how that's that's looked at. 01:39:03
I, I, I think that's, that's kind of another area of of consideration. I don't know if that necessarily is a variance. 01:39:08
But. 01:39:14
I think showing how that connection could be made, I mean it's very close. It's right across from the street. It has a double 01:39:15
loaded kind of retail feel to it. 01:39:19
But is there ability for people to cross easily? 01:39:23
You do have a prospect right there, so maybe kind of explain that, but also on that specific site are there is a retail 01:39:28
establishment that would be located on that side? 01:39:32
Yeah, it's interesting. Like. 01:39:38
Some might be saying, well just put the climbing gym up here. 01:39:40
So you actually reduced in the amount of like aggregated food and beverage together. 01:39:43
Which now this lawn starts to make sense, right? This is that area starts to make sense when you have a critical mass. 01:39:48
If I go put the climbing gym up there. 01:39:54
Now I've only got room for another 15,000 feet instead of 60,000 feet to aggregate. 01:39:56
And now I'm gonna put some other food and beverage to the South. But just from a development plan perspective, I think it really 01:40:02
makes a lot of sense to bring all that activity and body heat together. 01:40:06
For the food and beverage and have really easy access for those coming to the climbing gym. 01:40:11
So that's that's. 01:40:16
That's one thought. Umm. 01:40:19
But but the kind of uses again it's food and beverage heavy. You can see kind of what we've. 01:40:21
A lot of outdoor patio patios, A lot of outdoor space is, umm, what's anticipated. 01:40:26
And I, I, I appreciate that, frankly, I think this is, that is a good location for this use. Umm. 01:40:32
Umm, based on my own experience as a customer, because I'm not only a. 01:40:44
I not only work for a clinic company, I'm a climber myself. My family climbs. 01:40:51
We go to momentum, Sandy. 01:40:56
We get in our car and we drive down. 01:40:58
To Texas Roadhouse, that's part of the exact same development. 01:41:02
Stop and eat dinner. That's not a problem like. 01:41:06
I I personally based on my own experience and the experience of my friends. 01:41:10
Skating in our car even if we have to and driving across the street because the the the food in bed. 01:41:15
Isn't an issue for us like I I don't I don't feel like. 01:41:22
Umm. 01:41:27
Myself and my own fellow customers would have an issue. 01:41:29
Umm, even if we didn't wanna walk across the street, getting in our car and driving to a restaurant. So. 01:41:33
Probably just share that. 01:41:41
Yeah. And and you know, there are some bigger boxes up here along the street, just saying. I mean, in our mind, there's some soft 01:41:43
kids of some sort up there as well, some kind of retail stuff. Good. 01:41:47
But umm, food and beverage kind of wrapped in the outside, so. 01:41:52
Well an ice wall would make it a no brainer. 01:41:56
But this is not a bad option. 01:42:00
So I I have a question. Umm what? 01:42:05
Even in this business longer than I have, but when you have the anchor that's typically used as the all right, who else can I come 01:42:09
in to be in all of the other food in the retail spots there? 01:42:15
Umm, obviously you don't need to go into details, but do you find that this use as an anchor? 01:42:21
Is going to help land. 01:42:28
That needed restaurants and retail uses there. 01:42:30
I think it brings a level of activity up in interest for the area. I mean obviously the theater and and and Top Golf. 01:42:32
Now you bring a climbing gym. People know to come here to go. Some have fun. 01:42:38
Right, which I I think that just builds the overall brand. I think it's more of a branding thing than anything. 01:42:42
The residential will actually bring the bodies, you know, to kind of bring the activity that's even more important to the 01:42:48
retailers to the food and beverage themselves. 01:42:51
But the brand of the area will be improved by by having this use. 01:42:56
What, umm how, how tall did you say the tallest, smallest plans were? 01:42:59
What's the tallest fall you have in any? We'll have to have you at Microsoft. Umm, so I know it's annoying. 01:43:06
Gotta do it. 01:43:11
Umm, our walls at our Mill Creek location I believe are like our ceiling is up to 60 feet. And how tall is the wall? 01:43:13
55 could we get the tallest wall of any of your gems? I I'm just putting it out there uh. 01:43:21
I mean that that that makes it starts making it more unique for a draw. 01:43:29
The only speed climbing wall in Utah County. 01:43:34
I I think it starts becoming unique. Umm umm. One thing I will add to that is. 01:43:40
The quarry was built. 01:43:46
24 years ago. 01:43:48
A modern climbing gym is very unique to the experience that you get at the Quarry. I will say that I mean 25 years of experience 01:43:52
of building gyms. 01:43:57
It's a very different experience and I frequent the quarry regularly. It's the closest gym to my house. 01:44:04
It is definitely a different experience when I go up to the gym we just built. We just opened a month ago so. 01:44:10
That alone, uh, I would say is a very unique experience to what is offered in Utah County right now. 01:44:17
Yeah. 01:44:24
A tall as well as that a question I could look into it, but that would just add to our cost and and sometimes that's doing it out 01:44:25
there. 01:44:29
But I'll look into it. Alright, bye. This is just a work session. Yeah, ideation I I know in some of your other locations you have 01:44:34
different class types. 01:44:38
Such as delay instruction, group fitness classes, yoga. 01:44:43
Umm. Is it safe to assume that you have a variety of classes as well? That you know that program? 01:44:46
A similar type programming. Do you have like an annual and monthly pass too? 01:44:53
Yes, we, we typically have monthly memberships, which is, uh, roughly. 01:44:57
Uh, 60% of our total revenue, we have annual memberships, which is another 10. 01:45:02
Uh, 15% of our total revenue is U type programs in summer account. 01:45:10
Some of the other remaining it's like they use. 01:45:17
With their families for a one time event. Yeah, so John too also, umm, maybe to your to your client, umm. 01:45:21
Like 2 tournaments, I know we talked about in in the past, but it could just be a facility that would host tournaments that that 01:45:28
maybe other facilities are because the tournament or something that would bring in a lot of people at one time would would be a 01:45:34
huge benefit of the retail establishment. Umm yeah. What we typically do with USA Climbing is we typically comma commit to 1:00 to 01:45:40
2:00. 01:45:46
Large competitive events for for youth or collegiate climbers. 01:45:52
We've even had adult professional World Cup style climbers come to our Lehigh and our Mill Creek gym. So. 01:45:58
We typically commit to. 01:46:06
Umm, multiple large events like that a year. 01:46:08
And uh. 01:46:11
A lot of times when we do that, we coordinate to have a local competition. 01:46:13
Around the same time within a day or two so that we can open it to the public as well, so. 01:46:19
Yeah, perfect. Umm, I I'm sure you've recorded every. 01:46:26
Vineyard Planning Commission meeting over the last two years and watched them but one common. 01:46:30
Umm, conversation point is finding opportunities. 01:46:36
For activities for our youth, for people age 10 to 18, umm and so. 01:46:40
But looking at what you've done in other gyms, I I feel like that satisfies a great need. 01:46:47
Here I know this is just a work session. 01:46:52
Uh, but I. 01:46:55
I think when looking at everything that the Forge can be, just remembering that age demographic, I think that absolutely pulls 01:46:56
them in. Let's add to it. 01:47:00
But if, if there's food things that. 01:47:05
I don't know, let's do it. You know, like that's something that keeps bringing in that age group I think would be huge and our 01:47:08
youth program start at the age of four up until wonderful so. 01:47:13
It's perfect. 01:47:19
OK. MMM. 01:47:25
Is there any action needed? No, not tonight, sorry. The applicant has a comment and. 01:47:25
Umm will have is on the next meeting. 01:47:30
For for approval. So you would be making a motion to certify it uh, forward to not certify it so. 01:47:34
Yeah, I do wanna say one thing. I think this is really exciting, something I can get behind. 01:47:40
And I think a lot of our residents will. 01:47:45
Uh, a recreation. 01:47:48
Well, an entertainment opportunity. 01:47:50
It's both recreation and kind of fitness oriented versus maybe. 01:47:52
A Dave and Buster's an adult, uh. 01:47:58
Video game. 01:48:00
Uh, situation, but uh, yeah, I think we're kinda leaning towards this and this would be very helpful for our community. Thank you 01:48:02
for the collaboration. 01:48:07
Uh-huh. Thank you. 01:48:12
Alright, umm. 01:48:15
And I think that's the one I can get my agenda up. That was the last item. So we just moved to, uh, reports and discussion. 01:48:17
Any Commission reports? 01:48:25
No. 01:48:28
Uh, no, uh, no request that we're going just real quick. I, well, we, we did have a town hall all about parking last night that I 01:48:30
just wanna report on. 01:48:35
Umm, I should say our Parking Pro program, not all about parking, it's very specific about umm, that was well attended by some 01:48:39
people, umm. 01:48:44
But how did a good healthy discussion, umm, have some council members there, umm, and hopefully we can get some, some good, uh. 01:48:50
A agreement on on. 01:48:55
My microphone's not been on the full time, so that's OK. 01:49:02
Thank you SO. 01:49:06
Yeah, that was the. 01:49:07
A good event last night. 01:49:08
Thank you, and we will go ahead and adjourn. 01:49:11
Yeah. 01:49:16