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All right, I'm going to go ahead and. 00:00:01
Start the Redevelopment Agency board meeting. 00:00:04
It is January 29th and the time is 607. 00:00:08
We will have Councilmember Holdaway lead us in an invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance, and then we'll continue with our agenda 00:00:12
from there. 00:00:15
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, and we bow our heads before thee, this great. 00:00:23
This day, grateful for the opportunity we have to be civilly and civically engaged. 00:00:27
In our city. 00:00:33
And to represent. 00:00:35
Our citizens, we pray that we might have civility and understanding, that our minds might be clear. 00:00:37
And that. 00:00:43
We might do the work of this people and these things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:00:45
All rise. 00:00:55
I apologize to the flag. 00:00:58
Of the United States of America. 00:01:01
Republic for which it stands. 00:01:05
One nation under God. 00:01:06
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:09
All right. The first item on the agenda is our consent agenda that has meeting minutes from December 11th. Can I get a motion to 00:01:16
approve? 00:01:20
Board. 00:01:29
I move. I move to approve the minutes or the consent items as presented. 00:01:32
All right. I have a first from Marty. Can I get a second? 00:01:37
2nd. 00:01:40
All right. Second from Brett, all in favor. 00:01:41
Aye. Any opposed? All right. 00:01:46
We'll move on to our business item, the BID award for architectural services for the new Vineyard Center Resolution U2025-01. 00:01:48
And. 00:01:58
Josh, our RDA Director, will go ahead and present. 00:01:59
Great. Thank you. 00:02:04
So this is an item to award to the vendor method studio. 00:02:06
The the bid after the RFP for. 00:02:13
Architectural and planning services. 00:02:17
For the Vineyard Center building that will be down in the new downtown Promenade area. 00:02:20
So this particular expense? 00:02:28
The reason it's on the RDA agenda is because this was. 00:02:30
Envisioned as an expense from the RDA. 00:02:34
Capital projects fund. 00:02:39
So it'll be $1,000,000 from the capital project fund. The total cost of the planning and architectural work will be. 00:02:41
1.5 million, not to exceed 1.5 million, but. 00:02:49
Half a million will come from our partner Mountain Land Association of Governments MAG, who will also be. 00:02:52
Utilizing the multipurpose facility. 00:02:58
Occupying a good portion of the of the building. So it'll be kind of a joint project with MAG. 00:03:02
So in your packet and online there's the. 00:03:09
Actual bid proposal. 00:03:13
The details of the project. 00:03:16
Let me pull this up here. 00:03:18
Overhead. 00:03:23
So here's the overview. The 1.5 million. 00:03:35
This is your resolution. 00:03:39
And this is your. 00:03:41
The actual proposal from Method Studio. 00:03:45
Umm. I think I'm going to turn it over to Morgan to kind of go into details of the actual project plan and what method Studio is 00:03:49
proposing to do. 00:03:54
We had. 00:04:03
15 proposals. 00:04:05
Now talk. All right, great. Thank you, Mayor and or board members. 00:04:10
So we had 15 proposals from various firms. All firms met the the minimum requirements. So it was a very. 00:04:16
I would say pretty detailed process of going through each each proposal and narrowing it down. We did interview 6 firms. 00:04:25
And Method Studio was fantastic. They had a really great team. 00:04:31
Their services would include the architectural services. 00:04:37
Which would also provide us landscaping for the site. It'd be parking lot. 00:04:42
Design. 00:04:47
And also like the exterior finishes helping us with the interior finishes of weldability. So the idea is having a complete package 00:04:49
that we would be able to construct. 00:04:54
A Civic Center, now we are calling it. 00:05:00
The Vineyard Center. 00:05:03
Because we are partnered with MAG, which is our regional metropolitan planning organization. 00:05:05
And so we needed to make kind of the name of the site a little bit more general, but Vineyard Center, we kind of like the idea of 00:05:11
like if you've been to Boise, the Boise Center is really interesting. It has. 00:05:16
A lot of different government entities as long as well as the functions and operations of City Hall. And so that seemed to be kind 00:05:22
of a good. 00:05:26
More general name as opposed to just Vineyard City Hall, so. 00:05:30
But the. 00:05:35
We're kind of in that that very preliminary. 00:05:36
Preliminary process, so once approved. 00:05:40
We'd go through an alignment period where we would work on just that, the general alignment of like what type of architecture. 00:05:42
Architectural Materials. 00:05:50
The spatial requirements, we did do a spatial needs analysis with Nelson Partners and so that helped us provide kind of that 00:05:53
beginning conceptual idea of what City Hall would be and some of our special requirements. This would be tightening that up. 00:06:00
Working with MAG. 00:06:07
And Vineyard City to understand kind of those kind of some of those baseline and. 00:06:09
Architectural Material. 00:06:14
Requirements. Umm. 00:06:16
Additionally. 00:06:18
We're looking at, you know, six months as like kind of the very fastest for the. 00:06:19
Project to be designed. 00:06:24
Potentially going up to nine months. 00:06:27
A project of this size, the amount of engineering and architectural design work that would need to be done, could potentially push 00:06:31
it a little bit. 00:06:36
But we're going to do our best to try to keep it down to kind of a six month. 00:06:40
Period. Umm. 00:06:45
One of our first steps would be to do a geotechnical report, so understanding the soils conditions as many of you've heard. 00:06:46
There are areas in the town where we do have high water. 00:06:52
And then areas where you would think you'd have high water, but you have very low, low water. And so it'll, it'll require us to 00:06:56
come in and do boring tests and to start that geotechnical report and then kind of a final survey that would give us. 00:07:03
Some of that kind of foundational information that the architect would then need to start the design the project is. 00:07:11
It's lot 10A, so that's block 10. So if you're familiar with the Promenade, I'm sure most of you have been out there kind of 00:07:19
watching. 00:07:23
The park be constructed. 00:07:26
You're familiar with where the Aquatic Center is going to be located. 00:07:28
Were that N block. This is a really exciting block because. 00:07:32
It's an opportunity to have City Hall transition into the park space that that's located right there. 00:07:36
But anyway, we're really excited to work with Method Studio They. 00:07:42
Or the project team that designed the ORM City Hall. 00:07:47
So they've worked quite a bit in this area and they've done a lot of municipal projects. 00:07:52
So any. 00:07:58
Questions from the City Council or from the RDA board. 00:07:58
I have something we're also inviting some private users potentially as well some accelerators and other people, yeah. And that's 00:08:03
where the alignment period will, will, will help us out. That's that first initial phase in design so. 00:08:09
Understanding, you know, we've had interest in business incubator space. 00:08:16
And trying to kind of grow businesses within. 00:08:21
A vendor city and providing some space where where we could do that. 00:08:27
That's great. Other questions from the board? 00:08:31
Great. 00:08:37
I'd like a little bit more insight into some of the other. 00:08:42
Bids that were put in and what that? 00:08:45
Review process was like. 00:08:47
Sure. 00:08:49
So the we put out the RFP and I believe it was. 00:08:50
Three weeks. 00:08:55
Two to three weeks. 00:08:57
For the for firms to submit. 00:08:59
I think we use Site Quest, right? That was kind of the online. 00:09:03
Approach every years. 00:09:07
So yeah, I've got the 15 proposals. We go through the proposals, they have to meet all the minimum requirements. 00:09:09
And and really great great proposals varying costs I think met the studio was the. 00:09:15
Kind of the most cost effective and had like the really appropriate team. 00:09:23
And so that's that, that's ultimately kind of where we. 00:09:27
Where we decided to use them. 00:09:31
We narrowed it down to six. 00:09:34
The six firms. 00:09:36
I could try. We had MHTN Galloway. I don't get cash probably knows right right off that CRSA. 00:09:38
Two others. 00:09:46
GSPS. GSPS. 00:09:48
There's one other. 00:09:51
Anyway, we had 6 great, great firms and we went through an interview process and we. 00:09:52
And we had a panel of Mag and Vineyard employees. 00:09:58
And we went through that process with them. 00:10:03
Just we're able to, we have them provide us a presentation as far as like how long the project would take costs. 00:10:05
Like what? Who would be on their team? Whether team would consist of what each of those members would do? 00:10:15
How they could find creative ways to help us kind of truncate the construction process. And some of them had some really good 00:10:20
ideas, like coming out of the gate with. 00:10:25
With with bid packages to maybe start like your foot, your footings, a foundation. 00:10:30
While the project gets designed, so you do that first phase where you get alignment, you understand kind of the footprint of the 00:10:36
building and they come in out quickly with the footings of foundation. So you can start actually some construction. 00:10:41
While then you start to get the rest of the design. 00:10:47
Become completed. 00:10:53
And so, you know, finally, it's just kind of some creative ways to do a little bit of overlap with the design and the 00:10:54
construction. 00:10:57
And then they brought us through. 00:11:01
Different case studies or projects that they had worked on that were the most applicable. 00:11:03
To the project that we're having them propose on. 00:11:09
So yeah, yeah, it was really great. And then. 00:11:14
We as a group, we all were pretty much aligned on a method studio. 00:11:17
All six firms were really good, but this was the one from a price standpoint and just their creative approach to helping us like 00:11:23
truncate the timelines. 00:11:27
And to, you know, wherever we can save on construction costs, we felt like they were. 00:11:32
The most aligned with what we wanted. 00:11:38
So with that I'd also like to understand. 00:11:41
Of those six finalists, you're saying that method is? 00:11:45
Cost the more cost effective. 00:11:49
What about their? 00:11:51
Bid makes them more cost effective in the bid. Are we talking about just like a. 00:11:53
The bottom line dollar amount and they were less. 00:11:58
I mean I. 00:12:02
I'm sure all of us have done. 00:12:03
Some kind of contracting on it? 00:12:05
Very different scale. 00:12:07
Yeah, yeah, the lowest that's always the best. But right. I'd like to understand what cash you do you want to maybe some, some of 00:12:08
these you want to Yeah, yeah, I can know about with that. So essentially we, we broke down every one of these firms prices and we 00:12:16
looked at a base cost plus then we have like an extra. So they might offer something above and beyond what our, our scope was like 00:12:23
design the security systems and that kind of so Method Studio came in at just about 4.5% of a 30 minute $30 million build. 00:12:30
Where every other firm was. 00:12:37
Well over 5%. So they were quite a bit cheaper than just I believe almost $500,000 cheaper than. 00:12:39
Most of the other bids. 00:12:45
Yeah, and as low as half. There were some that were, you know, pretty wild. 00:12:48
But, but that being said that that was one kind of scoring factor we also looked at. 00:12:52
Multiple different. 00:12:58
Aspects such as who's on their team, what are their qualifications? What other similar buildings have they designed? 00:12:59
And how their style would fit within what? 00:13:05
We're looking to build here. 00:13:08
And we weighed all of those out and. 00:13:10
And then we interviewed those six and method in their interview demonstrated that they they met. 00:13:13
All of our objectives the best. 00:13:18
Yeah, I'd say cost effective and they're there. I mean all the teams were really good. It was, it was kind of hard to say like who 00:13:19
has the most talent. You take someone like MHTN is phenomenal and. 00:13:25
Galloway they did. They did like the Saint George City Hall. So there there was some really like good heavy, heavy hitters on 00:13:30
there. 00:13:33
But met the studio was fantastic. I mean, they took us through some projects or Orem City Hall being being one of those and. 00:13:37
Just really impressed with the process and maybe we got some really great. 00:13:44
Recommendations from from Ryan Clark. He's their deputy city manager over there and he worked really closely on the project. 00:13:48
Absolutely loved. 00:13:52
Working with them so they're just really organized and like they do everything they can to help you like save on costs as you go 00:13:55
through the project. So one thing that will be coming back with is an RFP to. 00:14:01
To get a contractor on board and that's why I was one of the recommendations is having a contractor on board as soon as possible 00:14:09
because then you can work with that contractor to really try and wherever you can save costs since they're on. 00:14:15
They're kind of brought on during the design process. It helps as you go through the project and then turn it over to 00:14:22
construction. 00:14:25
That that kind of. 00:14:28
So when you when you say that we're starting the design process. 00:14:30
What I've been told throughout this. 00:14:36
Design process already is that. 00:14:38
We won't understand the complete numbers of the project until the. 00:14:40
The architectural drawings are done. 00:14:44
And so it kind of makes me concerned that we're going to start construction. 00:14:47
Before the. 00:14:50
Drawings are completed for us, so at what point are we going to start approving? 00:14:51
Those plans to make sure that the funding is something we can all agree on. 00:14:57
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I think that's what the alignment. 00:15:00
Process as far as like that that beginning process, it helps you try try and get the cost. 00:15:05
Narrowed down as much as you can. 00:15:10
Obviously the more complete your project is like the better understanding you're going to have of where those costs are. 00:15:13
And so, you know, we don't necessarily have to come out of the gate with with like a footings and foundation, but by by doing 00:15:21
those types of things. 00:15:25
It helps you kind of overlap some of the process. 00:15:29
And keep your timeframes truncated as much as possible. 00:15:34
You could have a full complete package and then start construction. It's just from like you would just make your time frame for 00:15:38
like a CFO. 00:15:42
Pushed out. 00:15:48
So I'm wondering and this I don't know if this is a question you'll want to answer, but. 00:15:49
We would love to see. 00:15:54
Like if we're talking about doing this expedited process, it would be really great to actually, I know we won't know the exact 00:15:56
cost until the architectures. 00:16:00
Spell that out for us. 00:16:05
But knowing kind of the ideas and processes of how we're going to pay for this. 00:16:06
I think having more information for the community will help. 00:16:12
Everyone either get on board or at least fully know if they're not comfortable with it. 00:16:15
Fantastic. 00:16:21
Comment. 00:16:22
At our February 18 retreat. 00:16:25
Our financial consultant will be there giving us a presentation. 00:16:29
On. 00:16:33
Their recommendation for the funding process for this? 00:16:34
And to add to what Morgan has said. 00:16:39
We will in working with the. 00:16:41
Architect and the construction manager. 00:16:44
We will be refining the costs, but we are. 00:16:47
Giving them a budget and saying we really want to stick within this. 00:16:50
30 to $35 million range. 00:16:54
Can you work to keep us within that? And that's their goal right now. 00:16:57
And so. 00:17:02
We expected it to be right in that range. 00:17:03
And there are some things that they like they mentioned I think was a. 00:17:09
Electrical Systems. 00:17:14
Like the things that are connected with the electrical systems take longer right now, just like the. 00:17:16
I'm just trying to get materials shipped over and they're on back order. And so as you start to know kind of you start to lone in 00:17:24
on like the needs of the facility. 00:17:30
There are some things that you want to start ordering so you can save on time by just in like when you order stuff instead of 00:17:36
waiting like a month before you need to. 00:17:41
Utilizing construction like trying to get on it early. 00:17:47
So I have a question. What was? What did they say the estimated time frame was from the time? 00:17:51
They start drawing the plans till completion. Did they give you? 00:17:56
An idea how long it would take. So completion of the plans was 6 to 9 months and so we're going to do our best to try to keep them 00:17:59
nearer to the six month process. 00:18:03
And but you know, I, I would you always want to kind of assume a little bit longer. And so I think if you use nine months like 00:18:08
that, that would give you like from the time that they get the go ahead and they start. 00:18:13
Until they're completed because there is an alignment process that beginning piece that is really important. And so if we can. 00:18:20
Come to alignment on materials, the just refining the conceptual plan like those types of things that will then help the process 00:18:27
go a little further construction. 00:18:31
I believe. 00:18:37
End of 26. 00:18:39
So from a month standpoint, when they start construction it was like a 12 to. 00:18:41
18 or something like that, that's kind of. 00:18:47
12 to 18 months, yeah, from the time they start. 00:18:49
That's why if you're able to. 00:18:53
Start like your footing and foundation. That will save you a lot of time. 00:18:55
To clarify, I'm so sorry I didn't hear that exactly. So you said that construction would start? 00:18:59
End of 26. 00:19:05
Mag has asked. 00:19:07
And is really in a position that they would like to be into their new space. 00:19:09
By the end of 26. 00:19:15
That's when. 00:19:17
In their other Vineyard offices. 00:19:19
Concludes. 00:19:22
And they're hoping to be able to shift over at the end of that lease, so. 00:19:23
That's the date that we're pushing on. 00:19:28
If at all possible, if it doesn't happen, we can. 00:19:30
I'm sure that there's ways that we can work around that. 00:19:32
OK. 00:19:35
Any other questions? 00:19:39
I think everyone knows where I stand on on this, so I don't want to belabor the point, but I've got to see the end from the 00:19:42
beginning. 00:19:46
And since it is. 00:19:50
20 times larger than the largest. 00:19:51
Spend we've ever done as a city. 00:19:54
I believe that a. 00:19:56
60 to 90 day. 00:19:58
Social media. 00:20:01
And a mass survey of like, hey, where you feel if not a bond, if it is going to go to bond. 00:20:03
Because of our precarious financial situation. 00:20:09
You know, our property taxes already double so. 00:20:12
That leg is going to be difficult. 00:20:15
I wish we had clarity on sales tax. Adding a Wendy's and a McDonald's is not. 00:20:17
Going to do that. So it's basically our only bonding is through the RDA or committing long term through RDA financing at least. 00:20:23
Getting outside experts of like, what's the ability to do that? 00:20:31
And then even getting to that bond market. 00:20:35
From the precarious situation we're in, that interest rate is going to be extremely high. It's not going to be something that Orem 00:20:37
has or other cities just because. 00:20:41
We don't have that. 00:20:46
That tax base I know we could payout of the RDA for 20 or 30 years. 00:20:48
But that's stealing from Peter to pay Paul. 00:20:52
And so. 00:20:55
I just if it is something I want to hear it from the citizens and have them. 00:20:57
Hey, this is what we're doing. 00:21:02
And that they know. 00:21:04
And that we're tying their hands. I understand the staff's need for office space. 00:21:06
You know, I understand. Maybe we're cramped or. 00:21:11
Needing to find situations to where it is. 00:21:15
I feel horrible that vineyards in a financial situation that is unknown to any other city in the county. You know, with how the 00:21:17
RDA hasn't produced over 20 years. 00:21:21
But. 00:21:26
If we just. 00:21:27
Dig down. Then it ties our hands to. 00:21:28
We can't really do much. You know, it really does tie us down. And so that's kind of where. 00:21:32
Where I stand and so just knowing the end from the beginning like. 00:21:38
When I build a house, it's like. 00:21:41
I got another total dollar amount and I got to go to the bank and I go, hey, this stuff, OK, this is it. 00:21:42
I don't start and put footings in and start designing it. 00:21:47
If I don't know the end that I could make that. 00:21:50
And it will be a. 00:21:53
A high interest payment, you know. So Jake, I have a quick question for you. 00:21:54
What do you mean when you say 20 times larger than any spin we've done as a city? Have we built a building larger than a million? 00:21:58
OK. So you're talking specifically about building infrastructure? 00:22:05
I believe that this building. 00:22:09
How much was this building? Only $1,000,000? 00:22:11
No, it's just under 2. 00:22:14
This building was under 2. 00:22:16
OK. So infrastructure wise, are you saying that we would be spending the $30 million by ourselves, is that no, I mean? 00:22:18
What's the 30 to 35 is what you just said right? 00:22:28
That's the total cost of the structure, so the partners that are involved will be. 00:22:31
Taking. 00:22:35
Large chunks of that right the 8. 00:22:37
Not not 88 just happens to be what one of the partners happens to have on hand. 00:22:40
But their portion of the structure will be more. 00:22:45
More like 1/3 or if not a little bit more than that. 00:22:48
Right, but we would be bonding for the other. 00:22:51
Portion that they were short right when you. 00:22:54
Oh, go ahead. I'm just reiterating what the city may be bonding for it, but but the way we structure a bond is that. 00:22:56
We have tenants in our. 00:23:02
In our building. 00:23:04
Who pay an annual lease and that lease amount goes into the payment of the bond and so. 00:23:05
If we're dividing our bond into three pieces effectively. 00:23:11
That leaves us with just a third of the actual payment that we need to come up with. 00:23:15
And Mag comes up with a third of the payment. 00:23:20
Our other lease space covers the remaining 3rd so. 00:23:22
What you'll find is that. 00:23:26
Really. No other cities? 00:23:27
At least in the near proximity of Utah Valley. 00:23:29
Have created a. 00:23:32
A structure A multipurpose structure in their city to satisfy the needs of. 00:23:34
Of City Hall, but also to create an economic development driver. 00:23:39
And a community space. And so this, this is really. 00:23:43
Different than. 00:23:47
Vineyard coming up with the idea to have a. 00:23:48
An enormous City Hall. 00:23:50
This is a city center that will provide all of these other unique needs. 00:23:52
Or provide for them and do so in a very cost effective way we have. 00:23:57
Donated land for the project. 00:24:02
And then with these partners, it makes this project surprisingly. 00:24:04
Affordable, even. 00:24:08
We're a mid sized city. 00:24:11
Jake, what was you, you said, um. 00:24:13
The RDA hasn't produced. What did you mean by that? 00:24:16
Well, we haven't produced at the rate in which. 00:24:21
To keep the same tax rate that other cities have. So we've had to. 00:24:24
Continually go back to citizens ask for and ask for a higher rate because half of our. 00:24:29
Properties in the RDA and hasn't produced at a rate high enough to compensate for that. 00:24:34
We've adjusted the rate once in 20 years, just to clarify. 00:24:41
Right. Our tax rate, we've only adjusted once in 20 years. I just want to clarify because you're on public record. 00:24:46
Well. 00:24:53
Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying. 00:24:55
Josh, do you have a handle on what Jake is? 00:24:57
Expressing right now with the RDA not producing that you could clarify or I mean I'm sure it's pretty. I'm not saying it's not 00:25:00
producing any money. What I'm saying is, is that we pay twice the property tax. 00:25:05
Because 20 years ago we said, hey, we're going to give. 00:25:10
These others a discount and have them only have paid 25% and the other 75 go into. 00:25:13
The RDA, right? 00:25:19
And then we only get the increase. 00:25:22
So, yeah, I mean, if you look at the total property tax and sales tax revenue, Vineyard, I mean it's grown. 00:25:25
Overtime, I'm not saying it hasn't grown. I mean every, every city from 20 years ago, Orem's grown, Provost grown. I mean they're 00:25:34
far five times larger. What I'm saying is, is that. 00:25:38
It hasn't grown at the level. 00:25:43
That it would keep our property taxes the same as other cities, so we're getting outpaced. 00:25:45
And I agree with you 20 years ago we. 00:25:51
Locked in at a higher rate because we were giving half the property the RDA. 00:25:53
But. 00:25:58
Year over year, you're hoping that that would go down back to what did you mean we were getting half the property of the RDA? I 00:25:59
don't think I understand that. 00:26:03
Half of the property in our city mayor is in the RDA. 00:26:08
And they are. They don't pay the normal tax rate. 00:26:13
They pay it and then they. 00:26:17
That only 25% comes back to us. 00:26:19
And then the other 75% goes into the RDA, but how did that affect us so many years ago? 00:26:23
How did what property had nothing on it? 00:26:29
They would still be paying a property tax. 00:26:33
Tax bill at 100% at that rate. 00:26:35
I mean, I I can't say exactly what would be there if we didn't have the RDA. 00:26:40
But the RDA has been driving this development. 00:26:45
So now we take. 00:26:48
What would have just been? 00:26:49
A brownfield or something that needed cleanup? 00:26:51
Right. And we've made it into this development in this community and we are driving with economic development. 00:26:54
With the yard and the forge coming up, and with Utah City. 00:27:01
And So what would have just been? 00:27:04
Geneva that needs cleanup and little vineyard responsible for taking care of it. 00:27:06
Instead. 00:27:12
The entities the partners have all agreed Alpine School District the water. 00:27:13
The whom I missing the county? 00:27:19
They've all, they all agreed upon this. 00:27:22
And with us that we felt that it was smart to invest in this land, to clean it up, to build the needed infrastructure. 00:27:24
And this all like you can say it goes out, it doesn't go back to us, but it does right now we're talking about. 00:27:32
Using that RDA money. 00:27:38
To help. 00:27:40
Provide for the community. 00:27:41
And so whether or not we put it towards the city. 00:27:42
Center. 00:27:46
Whether we put it towards that or not. 00:27:50
I will strongly disagree with you on your points because I feel that the RDA is doing just that. 00:27:52
Geneva serviced our entire country. 00:27:57
During World War 2, you could arguably say the world. 00:28:00
It gave high paying jobs to. 00:28:02
People throughout our entire county. 00:28:04
It had made. 00:28:06
It definitely was something that we all benefited from and then it was gone. 00:28:08
And it needed to be cleaned up or. 00:28:13
So I just shared this. I've shared this slide before, but to your point so. 00:28:15
The value of the land. 00:28:21
Which started in the Geneva project area with a base value of 125 million. 00:28:22
This chart shows the assessed values overtime starting in 2012. 00:28:29
You know the RDA. 00:28:35
Came into existence 2009. The project plan was adopted in 2011. 00:28:37
We began triggering parcels in 2014. 00:28:40
So what's happened over time is the total value. 00:28:45
Of the project area has gone from the base value of 125 million or so. 00:28:49
Up to over 1.5 billion. So the vision or the plan? 00:28:55
Is that? 00:28:59
The increased taxable value of the land increases faster. 00:29:01
Because of the sort of upfront investment in infrastructure, et cetera. 00:29:06
So that overtime. 00:29:11
You end up with more. 00:29:12
Property tax revenue than you would have otherwise. 00:29:15
Even know to your point. 00:29:18
The city and the other taxing entities. 00:29:20
Are only getting. 00:29:23
Will 100% of the base value taxable value tax revenues which is that that blue line but then 25%? 00:29:24
Of the marginal increase, the increment. 00:29:32
In the value of the land overtime so. 00:29:35
I don't have a line in this chart. It'd be I'll edit it in. So in the future it'll, it'll show the what would the 25% of that 00:29:37
total value look like, right? 00:29:42
But the property tax? 00:29:47
Revenue. 00:29:49
To Vineyard is 25% of the city's property tax rate. 00:29:50
Across this total value line, so. 00:29:56
Because the value increases because of the development, because of the investment of, you know, in for some of its development. 00:29:59
But some of it's just time property. Let's let's have. 00:30:03
Josh, continue. Because I think this isn't right, but we need to correct. 00:30:08
Keep going. Well, I mean I'm pretty much done with the point. Just the idea the city is still going to get a 25% of the property 00:30:11
tax, property tax revenue they would have gotten. 00:30:16
On the increased value and so because the value is increased significantly over the base. 00:30:21
Then your property tax values. 00:30:26
And revenues go up and so I mean to your point with the property value have gone up regardless. 00:30:29
Well, yes and no, because the entirety of the project area the Geneva site was in. 00:30:35
Greenbelt and if it was not purchased. 00:30:42
And put into some private development, put into residential or commercial uses. 00:30:46
It would have remained with Greenbelt exemption. 00:30:52
And so not only would you have the base value of 125,000,000, maybe the value would go up. 00:30:55
But arguably that the challenge with the site. 00:31:00
Was what's the commercial value? 00:31:04
To a developer or anybody, what's the what's the highest and best used market value of the land? 00:31:06
If the land requires the investment of. 00:31:12
Remediating the site, preparing it for other uses, right And so? 00:31:15
Some people would say it had a negative value. 00:31:19
The notional value that was assigned as the base was 125,000,000. 00:31:23
With a Greenbelt exemption. 00:31:28
Which means that. 00:31:29
The taxable value. 00:31:31
Would have been significantly less than 125,000,000. 00:31:33
Because. 00:31:36
Of the 125 million assessed market value, which some would argue is actually 0 or negative. 00:31:37
Because of the required remediation. 00:31:44
Even if it was taxed based on an assessed value of 125,000,000, you would have a Greenbelt exemption which would say we're going 00:31:46
to tax the land as if it's basically farmland. 00:31:51
Which you get really pennies on the dollar. 00:31:55
If you're using it as AG land. 00:31:58
Versus residential use or commercial use. 00:32:01
Well, and you couldn't use it as AG land until you cleaned it. 00:32:04
Yeah. So it could only be visually. 00:32:09
Yeah, I think the government, the the assess, the assessment would just give it Greenbelt exemption because it's fallow and 00:32:11
unusable because it's brownfield site. 00:32:15
Effectively, you just wouldn't have gotten a lot of tax value if nobody would put in the work. 00:32:20
To prepare the site for development and then actually do development and then sell those parcels off for. 00:32:25
Commercial or residential uses so that you have property taxpayers. 00:32:30
That are paying residential or commercial property taxes. 00:32:34
So I don't know that it's. 00:32:39
Actually been bad. I mean I think this is this is pretty significant increase in value and I think it's driven largely by the 00:32:42
investment of preparing the site for development and then developing it and then selling it and using it for residential 00:32:46
commercial purposes. 00:32:51
And then to your question. 00:32:55
About revenues this. 00:32:57
Chart shows the revenues overtime. 00:32:59
I think one of the other visions is that as you develop this city center area with. 00:33:01
Various mixed-use, some residential but. 00:33:06
Commercial and retail. 00:33:09
You'll see increases in sales tax revenues. 00:33:10
And you've seen overtime since 2014? 00:33:13
An increased share of the. 00:33:16
Revenue coming from sales tax. 00:33:19
As well as the property. 00:33:23
So a couple of thoughts on on. 00:33:29
Some of this. 00:33:32
I think the real question. 00:33:33
Jake is getting at is. 00:33:35
Is the increase. 00:33:38
Markedly larger than it would have been if it were left fallow. 00:33:39
And as I'm looking at that chart. 00:33:43
Just generically it looks like. 00:33:49
With RDA, that property value is increased by about 12 times. 00:33:53
Since the beginning. 00:33:57
Give or take, I mean. 00:33:59
I don't have the actual numbers, I'm just looking at the chart. 00:34:00
That's pretty significant. 00:34:04
And then looking at the chart and guessing. 00:34:07
From my home. 00:34:09
Purchased it in 2017. 00:34:13
And looking at the value on there and then looking at what I believe the value of my home is and just thinking about, OK, I 00:34:15
haven't done any additional improvement to my home to make it worth a ton more. 00:34:19
My home is increased by about 1 1/2 times. 00:34:25
In that time period with nothing. 00:34:28
And it looked like that RDA value had increased by about two times. 00:34:30
Roughly. 00:34:34
So I mean. 00:34:35
I know that. 00:34:37
Really bad analysis. 00:34:38
But it is. 00:34:41
Better than anything. 00:34:42
That we've heard so far. 00:34:45
I think a fair concern would be. 00:34:48
It seems like the values increased, but man, couldn't it have increased a lot more? One thing to keep in mind is that most of the 00:34:51
development in the RDA to date has been residential. 00:34:55
And what's planned in the future? 00:35:01
Is a lot more commercial and retail use. You've got a grocery store, for example, coming later. 00:35:03
This year and, and if you look at the sort of Utah City downtown center development and what's being planned, there's a lot more 00:35:09
mixed-use, a lot more commercial businesses, retail. 00:35:16
I think that's the the vision for this multi-purpose building is to also draw that type of activity. 00:35:23
So commercial property doesn't have residential exemption. So you get actually more property tax revenue from commercial 00:35:28
development and certainly from retail development. 00:35:33
With the added bonus of sales tax revenue. 00:35:37
I think if there's a feeling that. 00:35:39
Revenues haven't increased as fast as people might have liked to date. A lot of that could be attributed to the fact that most of 00:35:42
the development to date has been residential. 00:35:46
And I think you're looking at the next. 00:35:50
Phase, if you will, the next several years being more commercial and retail development than ever before in the recent past. 00:35:53
So I think that's going to also drive changes in your sales and property tax revenues going forward. 00:36:01
It's about 20X on the value, so 125 million base value to. 00:36:07
Upwards of 2 1/2 billion today. 00:36:12
And we'll be working with our financial advisors from LRB through this process. 00:36:15
Right. Umm. 00:36:20
You guys mentioned that it'll be a dual process. 00:36:20
OK, in our last meeting I'd asked if we would get a second opinion and allow others that have a different view on the RDA to 00:36:25
publicly. 00:36:28
Share theirs and I know there wasn't an appetite then but. 00:36:32
I think it's important that you get a second opinion. 00:36:35
Do you mean? Can you define what you mean by second opinion? 00:36:39
Yeah, I mean, I, I've been able to sit down with quite a few different people. 00:36:42
To go through the RDA and. 00:36:47
The modeling of what? What it was even just the people that were originally involved like. 00:36:49
Chris Judd and others and just talk to him and saying what is working and what isn't. 00:36:54
I guess I remembering it correctly. 00:36:58
If we were hoping that we would not be paying twice the property tax rate and that the sales tax and the businesses that come from 00:37:01
it. 00:37:05
Would be able to keep this on par with the other cities. 00:37:08
And so that's my comment is it hasn't. 00:37:11
OK so you're second. That's how I would get rape opinion is from. 00:37:13
A financial advisor to look over the RDA, is that what we're talking about? No, I've definitely talked to a lot of really good 00:37:19
professionals that have looked into the RDA and I'd love them to come in and share what a different point of view. 00:37:25
So we have had multiple advisors come and talk to us about the RDA and having served with Chris, I think he was always 00:37:31
understanding that at some point. 00:37:35
If we were unable to focus solely on economic development for the downtown and. 00:37:40
The growth that would happen with the mixed-use development that he helped arrange and put in. 00:37:47
That we wouldn't be able to build the increment. 00:37:52
But he very much understood the RDA. I can't speak for him, but I do know how he voted. 00:37:54
And I do know what he voted on. 00:38:00
And I would say that I do know where we are today based on those votes. 00:38:02
And it's not just that we've worked with Lewis and Young, but Zions Bank and. 00:38:08
The entire RDA caucus and the people that have come and looked at our RDA and the many people that continue to come and work with 00:38:13
us on it, and I think we're doing a very good job. 00:38:19
At our process here, I think something to be aware of when we're just comparison comparing our spends on facilities. 00:38:26
Is that the first building that we had here? We had maybe 3 employees and when I started we had like 150 people. 00:38:33
And I think when I ran for City Council, there were 700 people. 00:38:42
And then when we built this building, there were very few employees still. We hadn't built out the teams that we have. 00:38:46
We didn't have all of the residents that we have today, so we didn't need a plow as many streets. We didn't even have the streets 00:38:52
that we have today. 00:38:55
Or the water or the the needs that we have today, we didn't have the water tank that we put in and so we have. 00:38:59
We have different needs today. 00:39:06
And when we are saying we we're looking for a place that we can house. 00:39:08
More office space. 00:39:12
And why we want to partner with these people. 00:39:14
And and create a space that fits our employees. 00:39:17
I think. 00:39:21
It's it's that we've been lucky. 00:39:23
To be frugal. 00:39:26
And frugal even now. 00:39:27
As we have been in the past. 00:39:29
And same with our fire station. We could have spent a lot of money on it, but we came up with a. 00:39:31
Fiscally conservative opportunity to build a fire station that we could grow into. 00:39:36
And that we and we were able to save a lot of money as a community. 00:39:41
And I think just like you're coming in with this assessment of method and what they're bringing to the table, not just with 00:39:45
skills, but the amount that they're bringing to the table and the reduction of cost. 00:39:51
It's following that same pattern that we have. 00:39:57
That we have established chair and vineyard and trying to be very thoughtful and considerate of the taxpayer dollars. 00:40:00
Are there any? Are there any other questions or thoughts on this? 00:40:05
Otherwise, I think we need a motion. I would just end it with one more comment. Sure. 00:40:11
When I go get a home loan. 00:40:17
The banker wants me to do a home loan. 00:40:18
When I go to build a building, the builder wants me to build a building. 00:40:22
Everyone that you described in that RDA process, whether it be Zions Bank or that consultant, is getting paid by the RDA. 00:40:26
To give us advice in our financially biased, to say yes it is working, continue to dig. 00:40:33
Continue to dig. 00:40:38
As you go out and look at other Rda's whether it be or a mall. 00:40:40
Costco OR. 00:40:44
Cabela's, they are functioning and they have brought so much more money into and created a business. 00:40:46
Situation, that is. 00:40:53
Lowered their taxes. 00:40:55
Whereas it hasn't done that here in Vineyard. And so that's why we're paying twice the property tax. So going in that isn't 00:40:56
actually, there's no property like ours. There's no, I know, I know there's no right, completely understand that. But what you're 00:41:03
saying isn't actually true. The people that I'm talking about weren't just financers that were coming in and giving unbiased 00:41:09
decisions objectively that had no. 00:41:16
Which ones did? Did we not pay to come and analyze it? You always pay people to do right? I know, but. 00:41:24
But also anytime we do, we, the RDA group that I talked about are just people across the state with expertise in this. 00:41:30
That come and they work together to come up with the best situations for communities. 00:41:37
And we sit on those boards and we work through how these even people that work on Rda's in the school district like Rob Smith. 00:41:42
Who was is giving up? 00:41:51
Funding in order to make this a possibility because he knows how valuable it is to the the kids in the community as we are 00:41:54
bringing in those people because we can clean up the site. 00:41:59
And, umm. 00:42:05
When you say we brought no taxable value to the community, it's just not, it's not no taxable value. Obviously we we did increase 00:42:06
in property value. What I'm saying is we didn't bring in a business tax base in order to. 00:42:12
At the level of growth. 00:42:19
You know if we if the starting of the RDA is 2011 we're talking about. 00:42:21
Prime land and you're talking about Greenbelt. 00:42:26
You're talking around 30. 00:42:28
40,000 an acre back in. 00:42:31
2011, right? 00:42:33
So now you're talking about. 00:42:34
Quarter acre for 400 K, so it's the same percentage growth as that. 00:42:36
Is what I'm saying. 00:42:41
And so. 00:42:42
You know, I agree with Brett S like, hey, this went up, but everyone's land went up. I think we're going to have to agree to 00:42:44
disagree. I think this chart actually does help kind of get to your question. 00:42:49
So the two lines here. 00:42:54
Are the land values in the RDA project area in blue? 00:42:57
And then the land values in the rest of Vineyard City, that's not in the RDA project area. And so you'll see the slope of the line 00:43:02
significantly change in 2017. 00:43:08
I think that correlates with. 00:43:14
When a lot of the residential development started to actually get sold and people began to move in, buy those properties. 00:43:16
And So what you can see is the slope of the line in the rest of Vineyard. 00:43:25
And how it grew overtime as land values increased. 00:43:29
And perhaps as some additional development took place in terms of infill in those existing areas. 00:43:32
But then you can see the slope of the line in blue. 00:43:38
Which is the RDA project areas land values. 00:43:40
And the slope of that line is significantly steeper. So what it's telling you? 00:43:43
Is that the overall land value within the RDA project area in terms of its slope? 00:43:48
Of increase outpaces. 00:43:55
This sort of non RDA parcels. 00:43:57
Now granted there's more, there's more areas that hasn't been developed, right. So that's part of what's happening here is your. 00:44:00
Is you're taking land that's. 00:44:05
Empty and needs remediation and then turning it into something of value. 00:44:07
So I think. 00:44:13
That goes to the heart of your concern is you want the slope of that blue line to be significantly steeper than the red line. You 00:44:14
want the value. 00:44:18
Project area. 00:44:23
To outpace in its increased. 00:44:25
From adjacent parcels that aren't part. 00:44:27
Part of the project area. 00:44:30
Marty, did you have a comment? 00:44:33
You had shared a slide. 00:44:37
This is. 00:44:39
I don't think this. We've had this conversation many times where we've showed the value of the RDA. So it's not like we need to go 00:44:40
through it, but just because people are sitting here. 00:44:45
And I think it's difficult to understand because we keep saying there's no value brought in by it, but there is value brought in 00:44:49
by it and how it returns back to the people. 00:44:53
One of the sites that you had presented in the past was. 00:44:57
The megaplex, do you still have that information up or that you could? 00:45:02
Kind of show that I can look for that. 00:45:05
I think we all know that. 00:45:07
Jake, I'm gonna imples work. 00:45:09
Out of all of them, OK, well, the reason why I'm having it presented and the reason why 2 examples work. 00:45:10
Is because the downtown. 00:45:16
Is being cleaned up and remediated. 00:45:18
So when you say they're not working because there's no businesses on them, they must first be cleaned to have businesses on them. 00:45:20
They must first be planned out. 00:45:27
The infrastructure has to be put in. 00:45:29
So you can't see the same returns. But when you're talking about, what does it do? 00:45:31
When we say, well, what does Topgolf do? 00:45:35
What does the megaplex do? What happens? 00:45:38
When we did clean the site, when we did put the infrastructure in and we see those buildings come up, what is some of the return 00:45:41
that we get to see? 00:45:45
And what you're saying is it's not working in the downtown, but it hasn't happened yet and it will happen. And when it does, the 00:45:49
two examples that we're talking about because we're a young city. 00:45:54
That's been growing fast and these are the ones that are popping up. 00:46:00
Are very critical and key examples. 00:46:03
And that's why we go back to them. 00:46:06
Yeah, I don't know if I can find the chart specific to the Megaplex site and I'm not sure if I may be incorporated as the RDA 00:46:17
total, but that's OK. If if we don't have the information on hand, maybe we can refer back to it in the minutes. 00:46:23
So that people can access it when they look at the minutes today. They can refer back to though that link. 00:46:29
Council, does anybody have any questions regarding the? 00:46:35
Presentation. Or can I have a motion? 00:46:39
I so please. 00:46:44
So Morgan and Kash, thanks for the work you did. 00:46:46
I think. 00:46:50
It's great to hear how you. 00:46:51
Are trying to be. 00:46:54
Really careful and conscious and get the most value. 00:46:57
For the city's money. 00:47:00
I had understood that we were going to have like a financial assessment before we. 00:47:03
Moves in this direction. 00:47:10
So I'm I'm happy to hear that we're going to talk about that in the budget retreat. 00:47:11
And I think if we could postpone the vote until we have that budget retreat and we can go through all the numbers and. 00:47:15
And honestly, like it was. 00:47:22
It was really encouraging to hear what Huntsman. 00:47:24
Is going to bring to our city. 00:47:28
That was massive and I feel much better about this now. 00:47:30
Knowing that that's. 00:47:34
What four years? I think from the time they start their four years. 00:47:35
Until they're. 00:47:39
Completed right so that that changes the dynamic of this. 00:47:40
In a big way for me. 00:47:44
So that's exciting. 00:47:46
But if we can go over this. 00:47:48
In that budget, retreat and get all the numbers and see exactly what that looks like. 00:47:51
I I would feel a lot better. 00:47:56
About it. 00:47:57
What does the timing look like? I mean, could we? 00:48:02
Have LRB come in sooner? 00:48:05
If you're concerned about it. 00:48:07
I'm not sure I understand. 00:48:14
LRB could come in tomorrow. They're working on the numbers. They're preparing those for February 18th. 00:48:17
Our plan had been all along. 00:48:23
To move ahead with this process so that we could have better numbers to present to Council. 00:48:25
But that this planning cycle. 00:48:31
Was to flesh out the. 00:48:33
Those final costs it was not. 00:48:35
To have final cost before the planning begins, because that would be. 00:48:37
Arbitrary. 00:48:42
At best. 00:48:44
And so the goal of hiring an architect and getting them on board? 00:48:45
And going through this process is to. 00:48:50
Hammer out those numbers so that we can confidently say. 00:48:52
Yes, these are the final numbers and in the in the interim. 00:48:55
We are working with our financial consultant to determine the best. 00:48:59
Financial Route. 00:49:04
To pursue this project. 00:49:05
And so right now we have method on board. 00:49:08
We've started initial. 00:49:12
Planning with them. 00:49:15
It would be very beneficial for us to. 00:49:16
Be able to. 00:49:18
Proceed with that. 00:49:20
So that we don't hold up the ability to get to that those. 00:49:22
Honed in numbers. 00:49:26
And so you you will get. 00:49:28
You will get a financial path from LRB. 00:49:30
Presented on the 18th. 00:49:34
That is unrelated to. 00:49:37
Progress that's getting made with our architectural consultant. 00:49:39
And then as we get closer to those final numbers, LRB simply needs to plug in the updated. 00:49:44
Estimates that are the actuals. 00:49:51
And then you'll be presented with. 00:49:54
A bond option. 00:49:57
Sarah, that's what you meant, right? That you were hoping that would explore the total cost of the? 00:49:58
The center that's going to be coming and not the design costs, right and you're just hoping to see it before we kind of. 00:50:07
To have like an idea of it. 00:50:13
I like the clarity that you're providing because I think also the process that you're going through is also architect and 00:50:15
construction engineering together to make sure that costs don't go out of. 00:50:20
Scope. 00:50:26
And that LRB assesses those as we go. 00:50:27
So that we don't go out of scope because sometimes what happens? 00:50:30
Method. I don't know if you're here but you guys. 00:50:33
Architects are dreamers. 00:50:36
And they dream really big and then it kind of goes out of scope a little bit. 00:50:38
And then the construction comes in and that's where you see the costs go up. 00:50:42
That's what you're explaining, and so LRB would be there. 00:50:46
Not only to kind of review that. 00:50:49
As you're already keeping it in with engineering, but to come up with a financial means for how we would actually pay for it. 00:50:51
Do you have any thoughts on that or would you still like to see it moved a little bit? 00:50:58
Well, I just. 00:51:03
I would like to know. 00:51:04
That the numbers that the numbers worked before we commit even to the. 00:51:11
Architect. 00:51:15
OK. 00:51:17
Like even just an idea. So I think the thing that we're. 00:51:18
I don't want to just rubber stamp this without knowing practicalities, and I know we're not going to have exact numbers, but we 00:51:23
keep talking about a budget of 30 to 35 million. 00:51:28
With Mag Payne, 1/3 of that. 00:51:33
And so I feel like we could do a ballpark number just to say. 00:51:35
Hey, this is the likely like this is how long it'll take us to pay this off. This is how much it'll take out of. 00:51:39
Tax revenue like rough numbers. I know I'm asking for generalized things, but I I think that it would be appropriate. 00:51:45
To have something that maps it out. And I think we actually already have something like that. Well, where LRB kind of produced 00:51:51
this early on that we could pull up. What if we. 00:51:56
What if we did postpone just two weeks? 00:52:01
And then you pull up LRB study that shows. 00:52:03
Say you were to split it or unless you can pull it up now, say you were to split it 3030 million between three groups and I think 00:52:06
we have more than that, more than three groups, but say you were to split at 30 million between. 00:52:12
Three groups, we've already been through a bonding process where we've gone out for $9 million and we came up with a funding 00:52:19
mechanism for how we paid that and I. 00:52:23
I think when we were first approaching this, LRB reviewed that and. 00:52:28
Kind of came up with ideas and we sat with them for almost a year and kind of talked about what that looked like and that's. 00:52:32
Where the presentation came, I think when we put this on in June to discuss it. 00:52:38
We've reviewed it in August. 00:52:43
And then that's how we got to this point where we reserved the money. Do we have that on hand or? 00:52:45
Would you want to wait and pull that up on the 12th? 00:52:51
I think it would be helpful to pull up the most updated version. So that's what so we met with LRB last week, gave them all of the 00:52:55
numbers. 00:52:59
And they were plugging those into their formula so that they would be prepared for our upcoming meeting. But I'm sure that they 00:53:04
can have something preliminary for us. 00:53:07
Within two weeks. 00:53:11
OK, would that work? 00:53:12
OK, I just. 00:53:15
I just want to acknowledge Mayor Fulmer. 00:53:17
Because you've been very creative and in making this happen. 00:53:19
For our city and you won't really even get to enjoy it. 00:53:23
So you know what? That's everybody that does this. The last mayor. Never. 00:53:26
Was the mayor in this building and he helps build this building so. 00:53:31
You guys will experience that as you keep serving. We'll keep building for the future vineyard. 00:53:36
Along with those finances, can we identify the tax revenue stream? I mean, I'm imagining it's the RDA. 00:53:41
And then the impact. 00:53:47
That it would have to that tax. 00:53:50
I think in our planning meeting. 00:53:52
Discussed and. 00:53:54
Looked like we're going towards sales tax. I'm not sure where you're getting the RDA. 00:53:57
Assumption, but. 00:54:01
That isn't our plan. 00:54:02
So it's a sales tax? 00:54:04
That's that's, that's the expectation right now that we've been discussing with LRB. 00:54:05
So as sales tax. 00:54:10
Revenue bond doesn't have any. It doesn't have any implication on residents. 00:54:11
It largely comes from whoever is using our commercial businesses. 00:54:16
And the funds generated from the sales tax there and so? 00:54:21
As far as a property tax type increase. 00:54:25
It is unrelated to property tax in the city. 00:54:29
RDA only has an impact on property tax. 00:54:32
Sales tax revenue generated from our commercial businesses comes entirely in its. 00:54:37
Formulaic measure. 00:54:42
We get half of it up front and then we get the. 00:54:43
The remainder of the state does a population. 00:54:46
Assessment throughout the state and then divvies out the remaining. 00:54:50
Portion of the sales tax generated to each. 00:54:54
City, uh. 00:54:57
And so this is where those. 00:54:58
Dollars would be coming from. 00:55:01
I would just add with. 00:55:03
And with two things. 00:55:05
If it is sales tax. 00:55:07
1st and I like that you mentioned that where you said that the property in many cases might not even have any value because of the 00:55:09
blight. 00:55:13
I said that. 00:55:18
No, he did. 00:55:19
That's why I think I take. 00:55:22
I representing the people. 00:55:24
Taking so much ownership. 00:55:27
And I, I don't take offense, but. 00:55:30
We have invested 100. 00:55:33
I don't know, $1,000,000 in the cleanup, right? 00:55:36
And so when Utah City goes out and says we're donating 20 million in land. 00:55:39
I go, you're donating or are we? Because we're the ones that help clean it up. 00:55:45
And same thing like when they say, hey, we're giving that land back. I go. 00:55:49
I like that gesture and it's kind. 00:55:53
But to be honest with you, we're 100 million into it and clean up too, and I kind of feel like we got to protect that. 00:55:56
Investment of. 00:56:02
Because we're the ones that. 00:56:04
Put that money into that. 00:56:05
But then the second thing is is. 00:56:07
I know how unpopular this is amongst my constituency. 00:56:10
And it only takes 810 votes on a referendum in four regions to stop this. 00:56:14
And I think we need to come together as a. 00:56:21
As a council. 00:56:23
And and understand the. 00:56:25
Let's make the plans livable, even though there might not be the votes but. 00:56:27
This was easier, easy to stop. 00:56:32
800 signatures doesn't take a lot. You know, I, I think this is an interesting thing because. 00:56:35
Our community could not be what we are. 00:56:42
Unless we cleaned it up. 00:56:46
And we put the roads in. 00:56:48
And so as these people buy the land and they invest millions of their own dollars and their livelihoods to build and create 00:56:49
something. 00:56:53
And we get the parks back and we get the roads back and we get the land back for the people. 00:56:58
As we invest in a cleanup so that we can actually build houses and exist here so that we can have top golfs. 00:57:03
And so we can have restaurants and megaplexes. 00:57:10
This is something that we. 00:57:12
Invest in so that the people standing before you can come and move into our community and then enjoy those amenities and so. 00:57:14
It's not. 00:57:21
There isn't a *** for tat. There isn't a. 00:57:24
They owe us something. This is something that we're cleaning up and we are investing in the cleanup of this community to make it 00:57:28
become something that is livable and viable and invites the people that we see before us today in the community. I'm looking out 00:57:34
at the audience. 00:57:39
And I know the people who are out here, most of them, not all of them. 00:57:45
Are here because the land was cleaned up. 00:57:50
And the property owners. 00:57:54
Bought it and they developed and they built it. 00:57:56
And that's what's created our community. 00:57:58
Anyway, let's go ahead and communicate, continue this if that's what needs to happen. I just need a motion to continue it until 00:58:00
the next meeting, please. 00:58:04
Can I just add one more comment real quick, which is? 00:58:08
I think we can get there. 00:58:11
In the size I mean, I know I spoke with Eric about. 00:58:12
An alternative that was. 00:58:16
4 or 5 million in price. 00:58:18
You know Sean's. 00:58:21
Sean Herring that put together and said, hey, that is an exorbitant boundary, we could get that. 00:58:22
Office space and the needs that we have. 00:58:27
And have that citizens. 00:58:30
Buy in to be able to make that happen instead of a 10 million our side and a 22 million or whatever. 00:58:33
So I think what I'm saying is, is that. 00:58:41
I hope we use this as a council to find something that would work that it wouldn't anger. 00:58:43
You know, or not anger, but we could not be as divisive and kind of get people on board with a City Hall because I think we say. 00:58:48
And we need the office space. I think we can all agree with. We need that there. 00:58:55
But it's the. 00:59:00
Is it a big Taj Mahal the size of or the price or cost of Orem City? Is that needed right? 00:59:01
Yeah. And I, I think that. 00:59:07
I agree. 00:59:10
That we will get there and that we will have to make a decision. 00:59:11
That allows us to build for the future. And when you mention somebody like Sean who? 00:59:15
I think submitted a plan for inside of one of our parks. 00:59:20
There is an opportunity for that. 00:59:24
I just think that the way that our community is built. 00:59:26
Our parks are really important and so that might not be how we agree. 00:59:30
On it about saving costs. 00:59:34
And I think that's important when we. 00:59:36
Mention people's ideas that are also coming to the table. I think there's value in building and being down in. 00:59:39
In our community, that's growing where we allow other offices to grow like our. 00:59:48
Sheriff's Department here is going to grow. 00:59:54
And our fire department is going to grow, and so being able to have facilities. 00:59:56
That make it so. 01:00:00
Groups can grow with us. 01:00:03
I think is also key and finding that value, but I do think we can get there. I am going to close this. Marty, did you have 01:00:04
something? Could I respond to clarify for the public what Sean Herring's plan was? Yeah, please go ahead. 01:00:10
He wanted to take. 01:00:16
The pumpkin patch. The Gammon Park property. 01:00:17
And develop that into a housing. 01:00:21
That was in his first proposal, not the last one. He X that. 01:00:25
OK, well, I don't know if I saw the most recent one. Yeah, it was just a City Hall where the old City Hall was in the same format, 01:00:28
using the same parking space. 01:00:32
OK, but still, that's our park space and so. 01:00:36
What I've seen, I wasn't interested in. 01:00:40
And I am really. 01:00:42
I'm excited to consider the possibility of what we have in front of us because it is. 01:00:45
On land that. 01:00:50
We won't have to add to the cost of the project. 01:00:51
Be it however it came about. 01:00:55
And so. 01:00:57
I'm comfortable with. 01:00:59
Making a motion to postpone this to the next. 01:01:00
Council. All right. I have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:01:03
Second Second by Sarah. 01:01:06
Any discussion about that motion? 01:01:10
OK. Can I have a, could we have Sean come and present at that time too? 01:01:12
On the agenda? 01:01:16
Just to show, do you have anything about this motion, about continuing it? Yeah, yeah. That's why I was saying is to continue it. 01:01:18
But in addition, could we? 01:01:23
Add to that motion, did you want to put in a stipulation for another person to come while the architecture just to show it being a 01:01:27
different view? No, we're we have a meeting with. 01:01:32
Tomorrow he can show us what what he has in mind. Well, I met the the people seeing it. There's hundred he could. 01:01:37
Show you as well and the people that. 01:01:43
Want to come see it? 01:01:46
I don't know that he needs to present. 01:01:47
Marty, would you like to alter your motion? 01:01:49
No. We can continue talking about it, but I don't want to alter my motion. I think it doesn't have to do with still seconds it all 01:01:53
in favor. 01:01:57
Aye, any opposed? 01:02:02
All right. I think, let's see, was there anything else on that agenda? 01:02:05
No, All right, that meeting is closed. Give us a couple minutes to turn over to the next meeting. 01:02:11
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All right, I'm going to go ahead and. 00:00:01
Start the Redevelopment Agency board meeting. 00:00:04
It is January 29th and the time is 607. 00:00:08
We will have Councilmember Holdaway lead us in an invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance, and then we'll continue with our agenda 00:00:12
from there. 00:00:15
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, and we bow our heads before thee, this great. 00:00:23
This day, grateful for the opportunity we have to be civilly and civically engaged. 00:00:27
In our city. 00:00:33
And to represent. 00:00:35
Our citizens, we pray that we might have civility and understanding, that our minds might be clear. 00:00:37
And that. 00:00:43
We might do the work of this people and these things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:00:45
All rise. 00:00:55
I apologize to the flag. 00:00:58
Of the United States of America. 00:01:01
Republic for which it stands. 00:01:05
One nation under God. 00:01:06
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:01:09
All right. The first item on the agenda is our consent agenda that has meeting minutes from December 11th. Can I get a motion to 00:01:16
approve? 00:01:20
Board. 00:01:29
I move. I move to approve the minutes or the consent items as presented. 00:01:32
All right. I have a first from Marty. Can I get a second? 00:01:37
2nd. 00:01:40
All right. Second from Brett, all in favor. 00:01:41
Aye. Any opposed? All right. 00:01:46
We'll move on to our business item, the BID award for architectural services for the new Vineyard Center Resolution U2025-01. 00:01:48
And. 00:01:58
Josh, our RDA Director, will go ahead and present. 00:01:59
Great. Thank you. 00:02:04
So this is an item to award to the vendor method studio. 00:02:06
The the bid after the RFP for. 00:02:13
Architectural and planning services. 00:02:17
For the Vineyard Center building that will be down in the new downtown Promenade area. 00:02:20
So this particular expense? 00:02:28
The reason it's on the RDA agenda is because this was. 00:02:30
Envisioned as an expense from the RDA. 00:02:34
Capital projects fund. 00:02:39
So it'll be $1,000,000 from the capital project fund. The total cost of the planning and architectural work will be. 00:02:41
1.5 million, not to exceed 1.5 million, but. 00:02:49
Half a million will come from our partner Mountain Land Association of Governments MAG, who will also be. 00:02:52
Utilizing the multipurpose facility. 00:02:58
Occupying a good portion of the of the building. So it'll be kind of a joint project with MAG. 00:03:02
So in your packet and online there's the. 00:03:09
Actual bid proposal. 00:03:13
The details of the project. 00:03:16
Let me pull this up here. 00:03:18
Overhead. 00:03:23
So here's the overview. The 1.5 million. 00:03:35
This is your resolution. 00:03:39
And this is your. 00:03:41
The actual proposal from Method Studio. 00:03:45
Umm. I think I'm going to turn it over to Morgan to kind of go into details of the actual project plan and what method Studio is 00:03:49
proposing to do. 00:03:54
We had. 00:04:03
15 proposals. 00:04:05
Now talk. All right, great. Thank you, Mayor and or board members. 00:04:10
So we had 15 proposals from various firms. All firms met the the minimum requirements. So it was a very. 00:04:16
I would say pretty detailed process of going through each each proposal and narrowing it down. We did interview 6 firms. 00:04:25
And Method Studio was fantastic. They had a really great team. 00:04:31
Their services would include the architectural services. 00:04:37
Which would also provide us landscaping for the site. It'd be parking lot. 00:04:42
Design. 00:04:47
And also like the exterior finishes helping us with the interior finishes of weldability. So the idea is having a complete package 00:04:49
that we would be able to construct. 00:04:54
A Civic Center, now we are calling it. 00:05:00
The Vineyard Center. 00:05:03
Because we are partnered with MAG, which is our regional metropolitan planning organization. 00:05:05
And so we needed to make kind of the name of the site a little bit more general, but Vineyard Center, we kind of like the idea of 00:05:11
like if you've been to Boise, the Boise Center is really interesting. It has. 00:05:16
A lot of different government entities as long as well as the functions and operations of City Hall. And so that seemed to be kind 00:05:22
of a good. 00:05:26
More general name as opposed to just Vineyard City Hall, so. 00:05:30
But the. 00:05:35
We're kind of in that that very preliminary. 00:05:36
Preliminary process, so once approved. 00:05:40
We'd go through an alignment period where we would work on just that, the general alignment of like what type of architecture. 00:05:42
Architectural Materials. 00:05:50
The spatial requirements, we did do a spatial needs analysis with Nelson Partners and so that helped us provide kind of that 00:05:53
beginning conceptual idea of what City Hall would be and some of our special requirements. This would be tightening that up. 00:06:00
Working with MAG. 00:06:07
And Vineyard City to understand kind of those kind of some of those baseline and. 00:06:09
Architectural Material. 00:06:14
Requirements. Umm. 00:06:16
Additionally. 00:06:18
We're looking at, you know, six months as like kind of the very fastest for the. 00:06:19
Project to be designed. 00:06:24
Potentially going up to nine months. 00:06:27
A project of this size, the amount of engineering and architectural design work that would need to be done, could potentially push 00:06:31
it a little bit. 00:06:36
But we're going to do our best to try to keep it down to kind of a six month. 00:06:40
Period. Umm. 00:06:45
One of our first steps would be to do a geotechnical report, so understanding the soils conditions as many of you've heard. 00:06:46
There are areas in the town where we do have high water. 00:06:52
And then areas where you would think you'd have high water, but you have very low, low water. And so it'll, it'll require us to 00:06:56
come in and do boring tests and to start that geotechnical report and then kind of a final survey that would give us. 00:07:03
Some of that kind of foundational information that the architect would then need to start the design the project is. 00:07:11
It's lot 10A, so that's block 10. So if you're familiar with the Promenade, I'm sure most of you have been out there kind of 00:07:19
watching. 00:07:23
The park be constructed. 00:07:26
You're familiar with where the Aquatic Center is going to be located. 00:07:28
Were that N block. This is a really exciting block because. 00:07:32
It's an opportunity to have City Hall transition into the park space that that's located right there. 00:07:36
But anyway, we're really excited to work with Method Studio They. 00:07:42
Or the project team that designed the ORM City Hall. 00:07:47
So they've worked quite a bit in this area and they've done a lot of municipal projects. 00:07:52
So any. 00:07:58
Questions from the City Council or from the RDA board. 00:07:58
I have something we're also inviting some private users potentially as well some accelerators and other people, yeah. And that's 00:08:03
where the alignment period will, will, will help us out. That's that first initial phase in design so. 00:08:09
Understanding, you know, we've had interest in business incubator space. 00:08:16
And trying to kind of grow businesses within. 00:08:21
A vendor city and providing some space where where we could do that. 00:08:27
That's great. Other questions from the board? 00:08:31
Great. 00:08:37
I'd like a little bit more insight into some of the other. 00:08:42
Bids that were put in and what that? 00:08:45
Review process was like. 00:08:47
Sure. 00:08:49
So the we put out the RFP and I believe it was. 00:08:50
Three weeks. 00:08:55
Two to three weeks. 00:08:57
For the for firms to submit. 00:08:59
I think we use Site Quest, right? That was kind of the online. 00:09:03
Approach every years. 00:09:07
So yeah, I've got the 15 proposals. We go through the proposals, they have to meet all the minimum requirements. 00:09:09
And and really great great proposals varying costs I think met the studio was the. 00:09:15
Kind of the most cost effective and had like the really appropriate team. 00:09:23
And so that's that, that's ultimately kind of where we. 00:09:27
Where we decided to use them. 00:09:31
We narrowed it down to six. 00:09:34
The six firms. 00:09:36
I could try. We had MHTN Galloway. I don't get cash probably knows right right off that CRSA. 00:09:38
Two others. 00:09:46
GSPS. GSPS. 00:09:48
There's one other. 00:09:51
Anyway, we had 6 great, great firms and we went through an interview process and we. 00:09:52
And we had a panel of Mag and Vineyard employees. 00:09:58
And we went through that process with them. 00:10:03
Just we're able to, we have them provide us a presentation as far as like how long the project would take costs. 00:10:05
Like what? Who would be on their team? Whether team would consist of what each of those members would do? 00:10:15
How they could find creative ways to help us kind of truncate the construction process. And some of them had some really good 00:10:20
ideas, like coming out of the gate with. 00:10:25
With with bid packages to maybe start like your foot, your footings, a foundation. 00:10:30
While the project gets designed, so you do that first phase where you get alignment, you understand kind of the footprint of the 00:10:36
building and they come in out quickly with the footings of foundation. So you can start actually some construction. 00:10:41
While then you start to get the rest of the design. 00:10:47
Become completed. 00:10:53
And so, you know, finally, it's just kind of some creative ways to do a little bit of overlap with the design and the 00:10:54
construction. 00:10:57
And then they brought us through. 00:11:01
Different case studies or projects that they had worked on that were the most applicable. 00:11:03
To the project that we're having them propose on. 00:11:09
So yeah, yeah, it was really great. And then. 00:11:14
We as a group, we all were pretty much aligned on a method studio. 00:11:17
All six firms were really good, but this was the one from a price standpoint and just their creative approach to helping us like 00:11:23
truncate the timelines. 00:11:27
And to, you know, wherever we can save on construction costs, we felt like they were. 00:11:32
The most aligned with what we wanted. 00:11:38
So with that I'd also like to understand. 00:11:41
Of those six finalists, you're saying that method is? 00:11:45
Cost the more cost effective. 00:11:49
What about their? 00:11:51
Bid makes them more cost effective in the bid. Are we talking about just like a. 00:11:53
The bottom line dollar amount and they were less. 00:11:58
I mean I. 00:12:02
I'm sure all of us have done. 00:12:03
Some kind of contracting on it? 00:12:05
Very different scale. 00:12:07
Yeah, yeah, the lowest that's always the best. But right. I'd like to understand what cash you do you want to maybe some, some of 00:12:08
these you want to Yeah, yeah, I can know about with that. So essentially we, we broke down every one of these firms prices and we 00:12:16
looked at a base cost plus then we have like an extra. So they might offer something above and beyond what our, our scope was like 00:12:23
design the security systems and that kind of so Method Studio came in at just about 4.5% of a 30 minute $30 million build. 00:12:30
Where every other firm was. 00:12:37
Well over 5%. So they were quite a bit cheaper than just I believe almost $500,000 cheaper than. 00:12:39
Most of the other bids. 00:12:45
Yeah, and as low as half. There were some that were, you know, pretty wild. 00:12:48
But, but that being said that that was one kind of scoring factor we also looked at. 00:12:52
Multiple different. 00:12:58
Aspects such as who's on their team, what are their qualifications? What other similar buildings have they designed? 00:12:59
And how their style would fit within what? 00:13:05
We're looking to build here. 00:13:08
And we weighed all of those out and. 00:13:10
And then we interviewed those six and method in their interview demonstrated that they they met. 00:13:13
All of our objectives the best. 00:13:18
Yeah, I'd say cost effective and they're there. I mean all the teams were really good. It was, it was kind of hard to say like who 00:13:19
has the most talent. You take someone like MHTN is phenomenal and. 00:13:25
Galloway they did. They did like the Saint George City Hall. So there there was some really like good heavy, heavy hitters on 00:13:30
there. 00:13:33
But met the studio was fantastic. I mean, they took us through some projects or Orem City Hall being being one of those and. 00:13:37
Just really impressed with the process and maybe we got some really great. 00:13:44
Recommendations from from Ryan Clark. He's their deputy city manager over there and he worked really closely on the project. 00:13:48
Absolutely loved. 00:13:52
Working with them so they're just really organized and like they do everything they can to help you like save on costs as you go 00:13:55
through the project. So one thing that will be coming back with is an RFP to. 00:14:01
To get a contractor on board and that's why I was one of the recommendations is having a contractor on board as soon as possible 00:14:09
because then you can work with that contractor to really try and wherever you can save costs since they're on. 00:14:15
They're kind of brought on during the design process. It helps as you go through the project and then turn it over to 00:14:22
construction. 00:14:25
That that kind of. 00:14:28
So when you when you say that we're starting the design process. 00:14:30
What I've been told throughout this. 00:14:36
Design process already is that. 00:14:38
We won't understand the complete numbers of the project until the. 00:14:40
The architectural drawings are done. 00:14:44
And so it kind of makes me concerned that we're going to start construction. 00:14:47
Before the. 00:14:50
Drawings are completed for us, so at what point are we going to start approving? 00:14:51
Those plans to make sure that the funding is something we can all agree on. 00:14:57
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I think that's what the alignment. 00:15:00
Process as far as like that that beginning process, it helps you try try and get the cost. 00:15:05
Narrowed down as much as you can. 00:15:10
Obviously the more complete your project is like the better understanding you're going to have of where those costs are. 00:15:13
And so, you know, we don't necessarily have to come out of the gate with with like a footings and foundation, but by by doing 00:15:21
those types of things. 00:15:25
It helps you kind of overlap some of the process. 00:15:29
And keep your timeframes truncated as much as possible. 00:15:34
You could have a full complete package and then start construction. It's just from like you would just make your time frame for 00:15:38
like a CFO. 00:15:42
Pushed out. 00:15:48
So I'm wondering and this I don't know if this is a question you'll want to answer, but. 00:15:49
We would love to see. 00:15:54
Like if we're talking about doing this expedited process, it would be really great to actually, I know we won't know the exact 00:15:56
cost until the architectures. 00:16:00
Spell that out for us. 00:16:05
But knowing kind of the ideas and processes of how we're going to pay for this. 00:16:06
I think having more information for the community will help. 00:16:12
Everyone either get on board or at least fully know if they're not comfortable with it. 00:16:15
Fantastic. 00:16:21
Comment. 00:16:22
At our February 18 retreat. 00:16:25
Our financial consultant will be there giving us a presentation. 00:16:29
On. 00:16:33
Their recommendation for the funding process for this? 00:16:34
And to add to what Morgan has said. 00:16:39
We will in working with the. 00:16:41
Architect and the construction manager. 00:16:44
We will be refining the costs, but we are. 00:16:47
Giving them a budget and saying we really want to stick within this. 00:16:50
30 to $35 million range. 00:16:54
Can you work to keep us within that? And that's their goal right now. 00:16:57
And so. 00:17:02
We expected it to be right in that range. 00:17:03
And there are some things that they like they mentioned I think was a. 00:17:09
Electrical Systems. 00:17:14
Like the things that are connected with the electrical systems take longer right now, just like the. 00:17:16
I'm just trying to get materials shipped over and they're on back order. And so as you start to know kind of you start to lone in 00:17:24
on like the needs of the facility. 00:17:30
There are some things that you want to start ordering so you can save on time by just in like when you order stuff instead of 00:17:36
waiting like a month before you need to. 00:17:41
Utilizing construction like trying to get on it early. 00:17:47
So I have a question. What was? What did they say the estimated time frame was from the time? 00:17:51
They start drawing the plans till completion. Did they give you? 00:17:56
An idea how long it would take. So completion of the plans was 6 to 9 months and so we're going to do our best to try to keep them 00:17:59
nearer to the six month process. 00:18:03
And but you know, I, I would you always want to kind of assume a little bit longer. And so I think if you use nine months like 00:18:08
that, that would give you like from the time that they get the go ahead and they start. 00:18:13
Until they're completed because there is an alignment process that beginning piece that is really important. And so if we can. 00:18:20
Come to alignment on materials, the just refining the conceptual plan like those types of things that will then help the process 00:18:27
go a little further construction. 00:18:31
I believe. 00:18:37
End of 26. 00:18:39
So from a month standpoint, when they start construction it was like a 12 to. 00:18:41
18 or something like that, that's kind of. 00:18:47
12 to 18 months, yeah, from the time they start. 00:18:49
That's why if you're able to. 00:18:53
Start like your footing and foundation. That will save you a lot of time. 00:18:55
To clarify, I'm so sorry I didn't hear that exactly. So you said that construction would start? 00:18:59
End of 26. 00:19:05
Mag has asked. 00:19:07
And is really in a position that they would like to be into their new space. 00:19:09
By the end of 26. 00:19:15
That's when. 00:19:17
In their other Vineyard offices. 00:19:19
Concludes. 00:19:22
And they're hoping to be able to shift over at the end of that lease, so. 00:19:23
That's the date that we're pushing on. 00:19:28
If at all possible, if it doesn't happen, we can. 00:19:30
I'm sure that there's ways that we can work around that. 00:19:32
OK. 00:19:35
Any other questions? 00:19:39
I think everyone knows where I stand on on this, so I don't want to belabor the point, but I've got to see the end from the 00:19:42
beginning. 00:19:46
And since it is. 00:19:50
20 times larger than the largest. 00:19:51
Spend we've ever done as a city. 00:19:54
I believe that a. 00:19:56
60 to 90 day. 00:19:58
Social media. 00:20:01
And a mass survey of like, hey, where you feel if not a bond, if it is going to go to bond. 00:20:03
Because of our precarious financial situation. 00:20:09
You know, our property taxes already double so. 00:20:12
That leg is going to be difficult. 00:20:15
I wish we had clarity on sales tax. Adding a Wendy's and a McDonald's is not. 00:20:17
Going to do that. So it's basically our only bonding is through the RDA or committing long term through RDA financing at least. 00:20:23
Getting outside experts of like, what's the ability to do that? 00:20:31
And then even getting to that bond market. 00:20:35
From the precarious situation we're in, that interest rate is going to be extremely high. It's not going to be something that Orem 00:20:37
has or other cities just because. 00:20:41
We don't have that. 00:20:46
That tax base I know we could payout of the RDA for 20 or 30 years. 00:20:48
But that's stealing from Peter to pay Paul. 00:20:52
And so. 00:20:55
I just if it is something I want to hear it from the citizens and have them. 00:20:57
Hey, this is what we're doing. 00:21:02
And that they know. 00:21:04
And that we're tying their hands. I understand the staff's need for office space. 00:21:06
You know, I understand. Maybe we're cramped or. 00:21:11
Needing to find situations to where it is. 00:21:15
I feel horrible that vineyards in a financial situation that is unknown to any other city in the county. You know, with how the 00:21:17
RDA hasn't produced over 20 years. 00:21:21
But. 00:21:26
If we just. 00:21:27
Dig down. Then it ties our hands to. 00:21:28
We can't really do much. You know, it really does tie us down. And so that's kind of where. 00:21:32
Where I stand and so just knowing the end from the beginning like. 00:21:38
When I build a house, it's like. 00:21:41
I got another total dollar amount and I got to go to the bank and I go, hey, this stuff, OK, this is it. 00:21:42
I don't start and put footings in and start designing it. 00:21:47
If I don't know the end that I could make that. 00:21:50
And it will be a. 00:21:53
A high interest payment, you know. So Jake, I have a quick question for you. 00:21:54
What do you mean when you say 20 times larger than any spin we've done as a city? Have we built a building larger than a million? 00:21:58
OK. So you're talking specifically about building infrastructure? 00:22:05
I believe that this building. 00:22:09
How much was this building? Only $1,000,000? 00:22:11
No, it's just under 2. 00:22:14
This building was under 2. 00:22:16
OK. So infrastructure wise, are you saying that we would be spending the $30 million by ourselves, is that no, I mean? 00:22:18
What's the 30 to 35 is what you just said right? 00:22:28
That's the total cost of the structure, so the partners that are involved will be. 00:22:31
Taking. 00:22:35
Large chunks of that right the 8. 00:22:37
Not not 88 just happens to be what one of the partners happens to have on hand. 00:22:40
But their portion of the structure will be more. 00:22:45
More like 1/3 or if not a little bit more than that. 00:22:48
Right, but we would be bonding for the other. 00:22:51
Portion that they were short right when you. 00:22:54
Oh, go ahead. I'm just reiterating what the city may be bonding for it, but but the way we structure a bond is that. 00:22:56
We have tenants in our. 00:23:02
In our building. 00:23:04
Who pay an annual lease and that lease amount goes into the payment of the bond and so. 00:23:05
If we're dividing our bond into three pieces effectively. 00:23:11
That leaves us with just a third of the actual payment that we need to come up with. 00:23:15
And Mag comes up with a third of the payment. 00:23:20
Our other lease space covers the remaining 3rd so. 00:23:22
What you'll find is that. 00:23:26
Really. No other cities? 00:23:27
At least in the near proximity of Utah Valley. 00:23:29
Have created a. 00:23:32
A structure A multipurpose structure in their city to satisfy the needs of. 00:23:34
Of City Hall, but also to create an economic development driver. 00:23:39
And a community space. And so this, this is really. 00:23:43
Different than. 00:23:47
Vineyard coming up with the idea to have a. 00:23:48
An enormous City Hall. 00:23:50
This is a city center that will provide all of these other unique needs. 00:23:52
Or provide for them and do so in a very cost effective way we have. 00:23:57
Donated land for the project. 00:24:02
And then with these partners, it makes this project surprisingly. 00:24:04
Affordable, even. 00:24:08
We're a mid sized city. 00:24:11
Jake, what was you, you said, um. 00:24:13
The RDA hasn't produced. What did you mean by that? 00:24:16
Well, we haven't produced at the rate in which. 00:24:21
To keep the same tax rate that other cities have. So we've had to. 00:24:24
Continually go back to citizens ask for and ask for a higher rate because half of our. 00:24:29
Properties in the RDA and hasn't produced at a rate high enough to compensate for that. 00:24:34
We've adjusted the rate once in 20 years, just to clarify. 00:24:41
Right. Our tax rate, we've only adjusted once in 20 years. I just want to clarify because you're on public record. 00:24:46
Well. 00:24:53
Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying. 00:24:55
Josh, do you have a handle on what Jake is? 00:24:57
Expressing right now with the RDA not producing that you could clarify or I mean I'm sure it's pretty. I'm not saying it's not 00:25:00
producing any money. What I'm saying is, is that we pay twice the property tax. 00:25:05
Because 20 years ago we said, hey, we're going to give. 00:25:10
These others a discount and have them only have paid 25% and the other 75 go into. 00:25:13
The RDA, right? 00:25:19
And then we only get the increase. 00:25:22
So, yeah, I mean, if you look at the total property tax and sales tax revenue, Vineyard, I mean it's grown. 00:25:25
Overtime, I'm not saying it hasn't grown. I mean every, every city from 20 years ago, Orem's grown, Provost grown. I mean they're 00:25:34
far five times larger. What I'm saying is, is that. 00:25:38
It hasn't grown at the level. 00:25:43
That it would keep our property taxes the same as other cities, so we're getting outpaced. 00:25:45
And I agree with you 20 years ago we. 00:25:51
Locked in at a higher rate because we were giving half the property the RDA. 00:25:53
But. 00:25:58
Year over year, you're hoping that that would go down back to what did you mean we were getting half the property of the RDA? I 00:25:59
don't think I understand that. 00:26:03
Half of the property in our city mayor is in the RDA. 00:26:08
And they are. They don't pay the normal tax rate. 00:26:13
They pay it and then they. 00:26:17
That only 25% comes back to us. 00:26:19
And then the other 75% goes into the RDA, but how did that affect us so many years ago? 00:26:23
How did what property had nothing on it? 00:26:29
They would still be paying a property tax. 00:26:33
Tax bill at 100% at that rate. 00:26:35
I mean, I I can't say exactly what would be there if we didn't have the RDA. 00:26:40
But the RDA has been driving this development. 00:26:45
So now we take. 00:26:48
What would have just been? 00:26:49
A brownfield or something that needed cleanup? 00:26:51
Right. And we've made it into this development in this community and we are driving with economic development. 00:26:54
With the yard and the forge coming up, and with Utah City. 00:27:01
And So what would have just been? 00:27:04
Geneva that needs cleanup and little vineyard responsible for taking care of it. 00:27:06
Instead. 00:27:12
The entities the partners have all agreed Alpine School District the water. 00:27:13
The whom I missing the county? 00:27:19
They've all, they all agreed upon this. 00:27:22
And with us that we felt that it was smart to invest in this land, to clean it up, to build the needed infrastructure. 00:27:24
And this all like you can say it goes out, it doesn't go back to us, but it does right now we're talking about. 00:27:32
Using that RDA money. 00:27:38
To help. 00:27:40
Provide for the community. 00:27:41
And so whether or not we put it towards the city. 00:27:42
Center. 00:27:46
Whether we put it towards that or not. 00:27:50
I will strongly disagree with you on your points because I feel that the RDA is doing just that. 00:27:52
Geneva serviced our entire country. 00:27:57
During World War 2, you could arguably say the world. 00:28:00
It gave high paying jobs to. 00:28:02
People throughout our entire county. 00:28:04
It had made. 00:28:06
It definitely was something that we all benefited from and then it was gone. 00:28:08
And it needed to be cleaned up or. 00:28:13
So I just shared this. I've shared this slide before, but to your point so. 00:28:15
The value of the land. 00:28:21
Which started in the Geneva project area with a base value of 125 million. 00:28:22
This chart shows the assessed values overtime starting in 2012. 00:28:29
You know the RDA. 00:28:35
Came into existence 2009. The project plan was adopted in 2011. 00:28:37
We began triggering parcels in 2014. 00:28:40
So what's happened over time is the total value. 00:28:45
Of the project area has gone from the base value of 125 million or so. 00:28:49
Up to over 1.5 billion. So the vision or the plan? 00:28:55
Is that? 00:28:59
The increased taxable value of the land increases faster. 00:29:01
Because of the sort of upfront investment in infrastructure, et cetera. 00:29:06
So that overtime. 00:29:11
You end up with more. 00:29:12
Property tax revenue than you would have otherwise. 00:29:15
Even know to your point. 00:29:18
The city and the other taxing entities. 00:29:20
Are only getting. 00:29:23
Will 100% of the base value taxable value tax revenues which is that that blue line but then 25%? 00:29:24
Of the marginal increase, the increment. 00:29:32
In the value of the land overtime so. 00:29:35
I don't have a line in this chart. It'd be I'll edit it in. So in the future it'll, it'll show the what would the 25% of that 00:29:37
total value look like, right? 00:29:42
But the property tax? 00:29:47
Revenue. 00:29:49
To Vineyard is 25% of the city's property tax rate. 00:29:50
Across this total value line, so. 00:29:56
Because the value increases because of the development, because of the investment of, you know, in for some of its development. 00:29:59
But some of it's just time property. Let's let's have. 00:30:03
Josh, continue. Because I think this isn't right, but we need to correct. 00:30:08
Keep going. Well, I mean I'm pretty much done with the point. Just the idea the city is still going to get a 25% of the property 00:30:11
tax, property tax revenue they would have gotten. 00:30:16
On the increased value and so because the value is increased significantly over the base. 00:30:21
Then your property tax values. 00:30:26
And revenues go up and so I mean to your point with the property value have gone up regardless. 00:30:29
Well, yes and no, because the entirety of the project area the Geneva site was in. 00:30:35
Greenbelt and if it was not purchased. 00:30:42
And put into some private development, put into residential or commercial uses. 00:30:46
It would have remained with Greenbelt exemption. 00:30:52
And so not only would you have the base value of 125,000,000, maybe the value would go up. 00:30:55
But arguably that the challenge with the site. 00:31:00
Was what's the commercial value? 00:31:04
To a developer or anybody, what's the what's the highest and best used market value of the land? 00:31:06
If the land requires the investment of. 00:31:12
Remediating the site, preparing it for other uses, right And so? 00:31:15
Some people would say it had a negative value. 00:31:19
The notional value that was assigned as the base was 125,000,000. 00:31:23
With a Greenbelt exemption. 00:31:28
Which means that. 00:31:29
The taxable value. 00:31:31
Would have been significantly less than 125,000,000. 00:31:33
Because. 00:31:36
Of the 125 million assessed market value, which some would argue is actually 0 or negative. 00:31:37
Because of the required remediation. 00:31:44
Even if it was taxed based on an assessed value of 125,000,000, you would have a Greenbelt exemption which would say we're going 00:31:46
to tax the land as if it's basically farmland. 00:31:51
Which you get really pennies on the dollar. 00:31:55
If you're using it as AG land. 00:31:58
Versus residential use or commercial use. 00:32:01
Well, and you couldn't use it as AG land until you cleaned it. 00:32:04
Yeah. So it could only be visually. 00:32:09
Yeah, I think the government, the the assess, the assessment would just give it Greenbelt exemption because it's fallow and 00:32:11
unusable because it's brownfield site. 00:32:15
Effectively, you just wouldn't have gotten a lot of tax value if nobody would put in the work. 00:32:20
To prepare the site for development and then actually do development and then sell those parcels off for. 00:32:25
Commercial or residential uses so that you have property taxpayers. 00:32:30
That are paying residential or commercial property taxes. 00:32:34
So I don't know that it's. 00:32:39
Actually been bad. I mean I think this is this is pretty significant increase in value and I think it's driven largely by the 00:32:42
investment of preparing the site for development and then developing it and then selling it and using it for residential 00:32:46
commercial purposes. 00:32:51
And then to your question. 00:32:55
About revenues this. 00:32:57
Chart shows the revenues overtime. 00:32:59
I think one of the other visions is that as you develop this city center area with. 00:33:01
Various mixed-use, some residential but. 00:33:06
Commercial and retail. 00:33:09
You'll see increases in sales tax revenues. 00:33:10
And you've seen overtime since 2014? 00:33:13
An increased share of the. 00:33:16
Revenue coming from sales tax. 00:33:19
As well as the property. 00:33:23
So a couple of thoughts on on. 00:33:29
Some of this. 00:33:32
I think the real question. 00:33:33
Jake is getting at is. 00:33:35
Is the increase. 00:33:38
Markedly larger than it would have been if it were left fallow. 00:33:39
And as I'm looking at that chart. 00:33:43
Just generically it looks like. 00:33:49
With RDA, that property value is increased by about 12 times. 00:33:53
Since the beginning. 00:33:57
Give or take, I mean. 00:33:59
I don't have the actual numbers, I'm just looking at the chart. 00:34:00
That's pretty significant. 00:34:04
And then looking at the chart and guessing. 00:34:07
From my home. 00:34:09
Purchased it in 2017. 00:34:13
And looking at the value on there and then looking at what I believe the value of my home is and just thinking about, OK, I 00:34:15
haven't done any additional improvement to my home to make it worth a ton more. 00:34:19
My home is increased by about 1 1/2 times. 00:34:25
In that time period with nothing. 00:34:28
And it looked like that RDA value had increased by about two times. 00:34:30
Roughly. 00:34:34
So I mean. 00:34:35
I know that. 00:34:37
Really bad analysis. 00:34:38
But it is. 00:34:41
Better than anything. 00:34:42
That we've heard so far. 00:34:45
I think a fair concern would be. 00:34:48
It seems like the values increased, but man, couldn't it have increased a lot more? One thing to keep in mind is that most of the 00:34:51
development in the RDA to date has been residential. 00:34:55
And what's planned in the future? 00:35:01
Is a lot more commercial and retail use. You've got a grocery store, for example, coming later. 00:35:03
This year and, and if you look at the sort of Utah City downtown center development and what's being planned, there's a lot more 00:35:09
mixed-use, a lot more commercial businesses, retail. 00:35:16
I think that's the the vision for this multi-purpose building is to also draw that type of activity. 00:35:23
So commercial property doesn't have residential exemption. So you get actually more property tax revenue from commercial 00:35:28
development and certainly from retail development. 00:35:33
With the added bonus of sales tax revenue. 00:35:37
I think if there's a feeling that. 00:35:39
Revenues haven't increased as fast as people might have liked to date. A lot of that could be attributed to the fact that most of 00:35:42
the development to date has been residential. 00:35:46
And I think you're looking at the next. 00:35:50
Phase, if you will, the next several years being more commercial and retail development than ever before in the recent past. 00:35:53
So I think that's going to also drive changes in your sales and property tax revenues going forward. 00:36:01
It's about 20X on the value, so 125 million base value to. 00:36:07
Upwards of 2 1/2 billion today. 00:36:12
And we'll be working with our financial advisors from LRB through this process. 00:36:15
Right. Umm. 00:36:20
You guys mentioned that it'll be a dual process. 00:36:20
OK, in our last meeting I'd asked if we would get a second opinion and allow others that have a different view on the RDA to 00:36:25
publicly. 00:36:28
Share theirs and I know there wasn't an appetite then but. 00:36:32
I think it's important that you get a second opinion. 00:36:35
Do you mean? Can you define what you mean by second opinion? 00:36:39
Yeah, I mean, I, I've been able to sit down with quite a few different people. 00:36:42
To go through the RDA and. 00:36:47
The modeling of what? What it was even just the people that were originally involved like. 00:36:49
Chris Judd and others and just talk to him and saying what is working and what isn't. 00:36:54
I guess I remembering it correctly. 00:36:58
If we were hoping that we would not be paying twice the property tax rate and that the sales tax and the businesses that come from 00:37:01
it. 00:37:05
Would be able to keep this on par with the other cities. 00:37:08
And so that's my comment is it hasn't. 00:37:11
OK so you're second. That's how I would get rape opinion is from. 00:37:13
A financial advisor to look over the RDA, is that what we're talking about? No, I've definitely talked to a lot of really good 00:37:19
professionals that have looked into the RDA and I'd love them to come in and share what a different point of view. 00:37:25
So we have had multiple advisors come and talk to us about the RDA and having served with Chris, I think he was always 00:37:31
understanding that at some point. 00:37:35
If we were unable to focus solely on economic development for the downtown and. 00:37:40
The growth that would happen with the mixed-use development that he helped arrange and put in. 00:37:47
That we wouldn't be able to build the increment. 00:37:52
But he very much understood the RDA. I can't speak for him, but I do know how he voted. 00:37:54
And I do know what he voted on. 00:38:00
And I would say that I do know where we are today based on those votes. 00:38:02
And it's not just that we've worked with Lewis and Young, but Zions Bank and. 00:38:08
The entire RDA caucus and the people that have come and looked at our RDA and the many people that continue to come and work with 00:38:13
us on it, and I think we're doing a very good job. 00:38:19
At our process here, I think something to be aware of when we're just comparison comparing our spends on facilities. 00:38:26
Is that the first building that we had here? We had maybe 3 employees and when I started we had like 150 people. 00:38:33
And I think when I ran for City Council, there were 700 people. 00:38:42
And then when we built this building, there were very few employees still. We hadn't built out the teams that we have. 00:38:46
We didn't have all of the residents that we have today, so we didn't need a plow as many streets. We didn't even have the streets 00:38:52
that we have today. 00:38:55
Or the water or the the needs that we have today, we didn't have the water tank that we put in and so we have. 00:38:59
We have different needs today. 00:39:06
And when we are saying we we're looking for a place that we can house. 00:39:08
More office space. 00:39:12
And why we want to partner with these people. 00:39:14
And and create a space that fits our employees. 00:39:17
I think. 00:39:21
It's it's that we've been lucky. 00:39:23
To be frugal. 00:39:26
And frugal even now. 00:39:27
As we have been in the past. 00:39:29
And same with our fire station. We could have spent a lot of money on it, but we came up with a. 00:39:31
Fiscally conservative opportunity to build a fire station that we could grow into. 00:39:36
And that we and we were able to save a lot of money as a community. 00:39:41
And I think just like you're coming in with this assessment of method and what they're bringing to the table, not just with 00:39:45
skills, but the amount that they're bringing to the table and the reduction of cost. 00:39:51
It's following that same pattern that we have. 00:39:57
That we have established chair and vineyard and trying to be very thoughtful and considerate of the taxpayer dollars. 00:40:00
Are there any? Are there any other questions or thoughts on this? 00:40:05
Otherwise, I think we need a motion. I would just end it with one more comment. Sure. 00:40:11
When I go get a home loan. 00:40:17
The banker wants me to do a home loan. 00:40:18
When I go to build a building, the builder wants me to build a building. 00:40:22
Everyone that you described in that RDA process, whether it be Zions Bank or that consultant, is getting paid by the RDA. 00:40:26
To give us advice in our financially biased, to say yes it is working, continue to dig. 00:40:33
Continue to dig. 00:40:38
As you go out and look at other Rda's whether it be or a mall. 00:40:40
Costco OR. 00:40:44
Cabela's, they are functioning and they have brought so much more money into and created a business. 00:40:46
Situation, that is. 00:40:53
Lowered their taxes. 00:40:55
Whereas it hasn't done that here in Vineyard. And so that's why we're paying twice the property tax. So going in that isn't 00:40:56
actually, there's no property like ours. There's no, I know, I know there's no right, completely understand that. But what you're 00:41:03
saying isn't actually true. The people that I'm talking about weren't just financers that were coming in and giving unbiased 00:41:09
decisions objectively that had no. 00:41:16
Which ones did? Did we not pay to come and analyze it? You always pay people to do right? I know, but. 00:41:24
But also anytime we do, we, the RDA group that I talked about are just people across the state with expertise in this. 00:41:30
That come and they work together to come up with the best situations for communities. 00:41:37
And we sit on those boards and we work through how these even people that work on Rda's in the school district like Rob Smith. 00:41:42
Who was is giving up? 00:41:51
Funding in order to make this a possibility because he knows how valuable it is to the the kids in the community as we are 00:41:54
bringing in those people because we can clean up the site. 00:41:59
And, umm. 00:42:05
When you say we brought no taxable value to the community, it's just not, it's not no taxable value. Obviously we we did increase 00:42:06
in property value. What I'm saying is we didn't bring in a business tax base in order to. 00:42:12
At the level of growth. 00:42:19
You know if we if the starting of the RDA is 2011 we're talking about. 00:42:21
Prime land and you're talking about Greenbelt. 00:42:26
You're talking around 30. 00:42:28
40,000 an acre back in. 00:42:31
2011, right? 00:42:33
So now you're talking about. 00:42:34
Quarter acre for 400 K, so it's the same percentage growth as that. 00:42:36
Is what I'm saying. 00:42:41
And so. 00:42:42
You know, I agree with Brett S like, hey, this went up, but everyone's land went up. I think we're going to have to agree to 00:42:44
disagree. I think this chart actually does help kind of get to your question. 00:42:49
So the two lines here. 00:42:54
Are the land values in the RDA project area in blue? 00:42:57
And then the land values in the rest of Vineyard City, that's not in the RDA project area. And so you'll see the slope of the line 00:43:02
significantly change in 2017. 00:43:08
I think that correlates with. 00:43:14
When a lot of the residential development started to actually get sold and people began to move in, buy those properties. 00:43:16
And So what you can see is the slope of the line in the rest of Vineyard. 00:43:25
And how it grew overtime as land values increased. 00:43:29
And perhaps as some additional development took place in terms of infill in those existing areas. 00:43:32
But then you can see the slope of the line in blue. 00:43:38
Which is the RDA project areas land values. 00:43:40
And the slope of that line is significantly steeper. So what it's telling you? 00:43:43
Is that the overall land value within the RDA project area in terms of its slope? 00:43:48
Of increase outpaces. 00:43:55
This sort of non RDA parcels. 00:43:57
Now granted there's more, there's more areas that hasn't been developed, right. So that's part of what's happening here is your. 00:44:00
Is you're taking land that's. 00:44:05
Empty and needs remediation and then turning it into something of value. 00:44:07
So I think. 00:44:13
That goes to the heart of your concern is you want the slope of that blue line to be significantly steeper than the red line. You 00:44:14
want the value. 00:44:18
Project area. 00:44:23
To outpace in its increased. 00:44:25
From adjacent parcels that aren't part. 00:44:27
Part of the project area. 00:44:30
Marty, did you have a comment? 00:44:33
You had shared a slide. 00:44:37
This is. 00:44:39
I don't think this. We've had this conversation many times where we've showed the value of the RDA. So it's not like we need to go 00:44:40
through it, but just because people are sitting here. 00:44:45
And I think it's difficult to understand because we keep saying there's no value brought in by it, but there is value brought in 00:44:49
by it and how it returns back to the people. 00:44:53
One of the sites that you had presented in the past was. 00:44:57
The megaplex, do you still have that information up or that you could? 00:45:02
Kind of show that I can look for that. 00:45:05
I think we all know that. 00:45:07
Jake, I'm gonna imples work. 00:45:09
Out of all of them, OK, well, the reason why I'm having it presented and the reason why 2 examples work. 00:45:10
Is because the downtown. 00:45:16
Is being cleaned up and remediated. 00:45:18
So when you say they're not working because there's no businesses on them, they must first be cleaned to have businesses on them. 00:45:20
They must first be planned out. 00:45:27
The infrastructure has to be put in. 00:45:29
So you can't see the same returns. But when you're talking about, what does it do? 00:45:31
When we say, well, what does Topgolf do? 00:45:35
What does the megaplex do? What happens? 00:45:38
When we did clean the site, when we did put the infrastructure in and we see those buildings come up, what is some of the return 00:45:41
that we get to see? 00:45:45
And what you're saying is it's not working in the downtown, but it hasn't happened yet and it will happen. And when it does, the 00:45:49
two examples that we're talking about because we're a young city. 00:45:54
That's been growing fast and these are the ones that are popping up. 00:46:00
Are very critical and key examples. 00:46:03
And that's why we go back to them. 00:46:06
Yeah, I don't know if I can find the chart specific to the Megaplex site and I'm not sure if I may be incorporated as the RDA 00:46:17
total, but that's OK. If if we don't have the information on hand, maybe we can refer back to it in the minutes. 00:46:23
So that people can access it when they look at the minutes today. They can refer back to though that link. 00:46:29
Council, does anybody have any questions regarding the? 00:46:35
Presentation. Or can I have a motion? 00:46:39
I so please. 00:46:44
So Morgan and Kash, thanks for the work you did. 00:46:46
I think. 00:46:50
It's great to hear how you. 00:46:51
Are trying to be. 00:46:54
Really careful and conscious and get the most value. 00:46:57
For the city's money. 00:47:00
I had understood that we were going to have like a financial assessment before we. 00:47:03
Moves in this direction. 00:47:10
So I'm I'm happy to hear that we're going to talk about that in the budget retreat. 00:47:11
And I think if we could postpone the vote until we have that budget retreat and we can go through all the numbers and. 00:47:15
And honestly, like it was. 00:47:22
It was really encouraging to hear what Huntsman. 00:47:24
Is going to bring to our city. 00:47:28
That was massive and I feel much better about this now. 00:47:30
Knowing that that's. 00:47:34
What four years? I think from the time they start their four years. 00:47:35
Until they're. 00:47:39
Completed right so that that changes the dynamic of this. 00:47:40
In a big way for me. 00:47:44
So that's exciting. 00:47:46
But if we can go over this. 00:47:48
In that budget, retreat and get all the numbers and see exactly what that looks like. 00:47:51
I I would feel a lot better. 00:47:56
About it. 00:47:57
What does the timing look like? I mean, could we? 00:48:02
Have LRB come in sooner? 00:48:05
If you're concerned about it. 00:48:07
I'm not sure I understand. 00:48:14
LRB could come in tomorrow. They're working on the numbers. They're preparing those for February 18th. 00:48:17
Our plan had been all along. 00:48:23
To move ahead with this process so that we could have better numbers to present to Council. 00:48:25
But that this planning cycle. 00:48:31
Was to flesh out the. 00:48:33
Those final costs it was not. 00:48:35
To have final cost before the planning begins, because that would be. 00:48:37
Arbitrary. 00:48:42
At best. 00:48:44
And so the goal of hiring an architect and getting them on board? 00:48:45
And going through this process is to. 00:48:50
Hammer out those numbers so that we can confidently say. 00:48:52
Yes, these are the final numbers and in the in the interim. 00:48:55
We are working with our financial consultant to determine the best. 00:48:59
Financial Route. 00:49:04
To pursue this project. 00:49:05
And so right now we have method on board. 00:49:08
We've started initial. 00:49:12
Planning with them. 00:49:15
It would be very beneficial for us to. 00:49:16
Be able to. 00:49:18
Proceed with that. 00:49:20
So that we don't hold up the ability to get to that those. 00:49:22
Honed in numbers. 00:49:26
And so you you will get. 00:49:28
You will get a financial path from LRB. 00:49:30
Presented on the 18th. 00:49:34
That is unrelated to. 00:49:37
Progress that's getting made with our architectural consultant. 00:49:39
And then as we get closer to those final numbers, LRB simply needs to plug in the updated. 00:49:44
Estimates that are the actuals. 00:49:51
And then you'll be presented with. 00:49:54
A bond option. 00:49:57
Sarah, that's what you meant, right? That you were hoping that would explore the total cost of the? 00:49:58
The center that's going to be coming and not the design costs, right and you're just hoping to see it before we kind of. 00:50:07
To have like an idea of it. 00:50:13
I like the clarity that you're providing because I think also the process that you're going through is also architect and 00:50:15
construction engineering together to make sure that costs don't go out of. 00:50:20
Scope. 00:50:26
And that LRB assesses those as we go. 00:50:27
So that we don't go out of scope because sometimes what happens? 00:50:30
Method. I don't know if you're here but you guys. 00:50:33
Architects are dreamers. 00:50:36
And they dream really big and then it kind of goes out of scope a little bit. 00:50:38
And then the construction comes in and that's where you see the costs go up. 00:50:42
That's what you're explaining, and so LRB would be there. 00:50:46
Not only to kind of review that. 00:50:49
As you're already keeping it in with engineering, but to come up with a financial means for how we would actually pay for it. 00:50:51
Do you have any thoughts on that or would you still like to see it moved a little bit? 00:50:58
Well, I just. 00:51:03
I would like to know. 00:51:04
That the numbers that the numbers worked before we commit even to the. 00:51:11
Architect. 00:51:15
OK. 00:51:17
Like even just an idea. So I think the thing that we're. 00:51:18
I don't want to just rubber stamp this without knowing practicalities, and I know we're not going to have exact numbers, but we 00:51:23
keep talking about a budget of 30 to 35 million. 00:51:28
With Mag Payne, 1/3 of that. 00:51:33
And so I feel like we could do a ballpark number just to say. 00:51:35
Hey, this is the likely like this is how long it'll take us to pay this off. This is how much it'll take out of. 00:51:39
Tax revenue like rough numbers. I know I'm asking for generalized things, but I I think that it would be appropriate. 00:51:45
To have something that maps it out. And I think we actually already have something like that. Well, where LRB kind of produced 00:51:51
this early on that we could pull up. What if we. 00:51:56
What if we did postpone just two weeks? 00:52:01
And then you pull up LRB study that shows. 00:52:03
Say you were to split it or unless you can pull it up now, say you were to split it 3030 million between three groups and I think 00:52:06
we have more than that, more than three groups, but say you were to split at 30 million between. 00:52:12
Three groups, we've already been through a bonding process where we've gone out for $9 million and we came up with a funding 00:52:19
mechanism for how we paid that and I. 00:52:23
I think when we were first approaching this, LRB reviewed that and. 00:52:28
Kind of came up with ideas and we sat with them for almost a year and kind of talked about what that looked like and that's. 00:52:32
Where the presentation came, I think when we put this on in June to discuss it. 00:52:38
We've reviewed it in August. 00:52:43
And then that's how we got to this point where we reserved the money. Do we have that on hand or? 00:52:45
Would you want to wait and pull that up on the 12th? 00:52:51
I think it would be helpful to pull up the most updated version. So that's what so we met with LRB last week, gave them all of the 00:52:55
numbers. 00:52:59
And they were plugging those into their formula so that they would be prepared for our upcoming meeting. But I'm sure that they 00:53:04
can have something preliminary for us. 00:53:07
Within two weeks. 00:53:11
OK, would that work? 00:53:12
OK, I just. 00:53:15
I just want to acknowledge Mayor Fulmer. 00:53:17
Because you've been very creative and in making this happen. 00:53:19
For our city and you won't really even get to enjoy it. 00:53:23
So you know what? That's everybody that does this. The last mayor. Never. 00:53:26
Was the mayor in this building and he helps build this building so. 00:53:31
You guys will experience that as you keep serving. We'll keep building for the future vineyard. 00:53:36
Along with those finances, can we identify the tax revenue stream? I mean, I'm imagining it's the RDA. 00:53:41
And then the impact. 00:53:47
That it would have to that tax. 00:53:50
I think in our planning meeting. 00:53:52
Discussed and. 00:53:54
Looked like we're going towards sales tax. I'm not sure where you're getting the RDA. 00:53:57
Assumption, but. 00:54:01
That isn't our plan. 00:54:02
So it's a sales tax? 00:54:04
That's that's, that's the expectation right now that we've been discussing with LRB. 00:54:05
So as sales tax. 00:54:10
Revenue bond doesn't have any. It doesn't have any implication on residents. 00:54:11
It largely comes from whoever is using our commercial businesses. 00:54:16
And the funds generated from the sales tax there and so? 00:54:21
As far as a property tax type increase. 00:54:25
It is unrelated to property tax in the city. 00:54:29
RDA only has an impact on property tax. 00:54:32
Sales tax revenue generated from our commercial businesses comes entirely in its. 00:54:37
Formulaic measure. 00:54:42
We get half of it up front and then we get the. 00:54:43
The remainder of the state does a population. 00:54:46
Assessment throughout the state and then divvies out the remaining. 00:54:50
Portion of the sales tax generated to each. 00:54:54
City, uh. 00:54:57
And so this is where those. 00:54:58
Dollars would be coming from. 00:55:01
I would just add with. 00:55:03
And with two things. 00:55:05
If it is sales tax. 00:55:07
1st and I like that you mentioned that where you said that the property in many cases might not even have any value because of the 00:55:09
blight. 00:55:13
I said that. 00:55:18
No, he did. 00:55:19
That's why I think I take. 00:55:22
I representing the people. 00:55:24
Taking so much ownership. 00:55:27
And I, I don't take offense, but. 00:55:30
We have invested 100. 00:55:33
I don't know, $1,000,000 in the cleanup, right? 00:55:36
And so when Utah City goes out and says we're donating 20 million in land. 00:55:39
I go, you're donating or are we? Because we're the ones that help clean it up. 00:55:45
And same thing like when they say, hey, we're giving that land back. I go. 00:55:49
I like that gesture and it's kind. 00:55:53
But to be honest with you, we're 100 million into it and clean up too, and I kind of feel like we got to protect that. 00:55:56
Investment of. 00:56:02
Because we're the ones that. 00:56:04
Put that money into that. 00:56:05
But then the second thing is is. 00:56:07
I know how unpopular this is amongst my constituency. 00:56:10
And it only takes 810 votes on a referendum in four regions to stop this. 00:56:14
And I think we need to come together as a. 00:56:21
As a council. 00:56:23
And and understand the. 00:56:25
Let's make the plans livable, even though there might not be the votes but. 00:56:27
This was easier, easy to stop. 00:56:32
800 signatures doesn't take a lot. You know, I, I think this is an interesting thing because. 00:56:35
Our community could not be what we are. 00:56:42
Unless we cleaned it up. 00:56:46
And we put the roads in. 00:56:48
And so as these people buy the land and they invest millions of their own dollars and their livelihoods to build and create 00:56:49
something. 00:56:53
And we get the parks back and we get the roads back and we get the land back for the people. 00:56:58
As we invest in a cleanup so that we can actually build houses and exist here so that we can have top golfs. 00:57:03
And so we can have restaurants and megaplexes. 00:57:10
This is something that we. 00:57:12
Invest in so that the people standing before you can come and move into our community and then enjoy those amenities and so. 00:57:14
It's not. 00:57:21
There isn't a *** for tat. There isn't a. 00:57:24
They owe us something. This is something that we're cleaning up and we are investing in the cleanup of this community to make it 00:57:28
become something that is livable and viable and invites the people that we see before us today in the community. I'm looking out 00:57:34
at the audience. 00:57:39
And I know the people who are out here, most of them, not all of them. 00:57:45
Are here because the land was cleaned up. 00:57:50
And the property owners. 00:57:54
Bought it and they developed and they built it. 00:57:56
And that's what's created our community. 00:57:58
Anyway, let's go ahead and communicate, continue this if that's what needs to happen. I just need a motion to continue it until 00:58:00
the next meeting, please. 00:58:04
Can I just add one more comment real quick, which is? 00:58:08
I think we can get there. 00:58:11
In the size I mean, I know I spoke with Eric about. 00:58:12
An alternative that was. 00:58:16
4 or 5 million in price. 00:58:18
You know Sean's. 00:58:21
Sean Herring that put together and said, hey, that is an exorbitant boundary, we could get that. 00:58:22
Office space and the needs that we have. 00:58:27
And have that citizens. 00:58:30
Buy in to be able to make that happen instead of a 10 million our side and a 22 million or whatever. 00:58:33
So I think what I'm saying is, is that. 00:58:41
I hope we use this as a council to find something that would work that it wouldn't anger. 00:58:43
You know, or not anger, but we could not be as divisive and kind of get people on board with a City Hall because I think we say. 00:58:48
And we need the office space. I think we can all agree with. We need that there. 00:58:55
But it's the. 00:59:00
Is it a big Taj Mahal the size of or the price or cost of Orem City? Is that needed right? 00:59:01
Yeah. And I, I think that. 00:59:07
I agree. 00:59:10
That we will get there and that we will have to make a decision. 00:59:11
That allows us to build for the future. And when you mention somebody like Sean who? 00:59:15
I think submitted a plan for inside of one of our parks. 00:59:20
There is an opportunity for that. 00:59:24
I just think that the way that our community is built. 00:59:26
Our parks are really important and so that might not be how we agree. 00:59:30
On it about saving costs. 00:59:34
And I think that's important when we. 00:59:36
Mention people's ideas that are also coming to the table. I think there's value in building and being down in. 00:59:39
In our community, that's growing where we allow other offices to grow like our. 00:59:48
Sheriff's Department here is going to grow. 00:59:54
And our fire department is going to grow, and so being able to have facilities. 00:59:56
That make it so. 01:00:00
Groups can grow with us. 01:00:03
I think is also key and finding that value, but I do think we can get there. I am going to close this. Marty, did you have 01:00:04
something? Could I respond to clarify for the public what Sean Herring's plan was? Yeah, please go ahead. 01:00:10
He wanted to take. 01:00:16
The pumpkin patch. The Gammon Park property. 01:00:17
And develop that into a housing. 01:00:21
That was in his first proposal, not the last one. He X that. 01:00:25
OK, well, I don't know if I saw the most recent one. Yeah, it was just a City Hall where the old City Hall was in the same format, 01:00:28
using the same parking space. 01:00:32
OK, but still, that's our park space and so. 01:00:36
What I've seen, I wasn't interested in. 01:00:40
And I am really. 01:00:42
I'm excited to consider the possibility of what we have in front of us because it is. 01:00:45
On land that. 01:00:50
We won't have to add to the cost of the project. 01:00:51
Be it however it came about. 01:00:55
And so. 01:00:57
I'm comfortable with. 01:00:59
Making a motion to postpone this to the next. 01:01:00
Council. All right. I have a first by Marty. Can I get a second? 01:01:03
Second Second by Sarah. 01:01:06
Any discussion about that motion? 01:01:10
OK. Can I have a, could we have Sean come and present at that time too? 01:01:12
On the agenda? 01:01:16
Just to show, do you have anything about this motion, about continuing it? Yeah, yeah. That's why I was saying is to continue it. 01:01:18
But in addition, could we? 01:01:23
Add to that motion, did you want to put in a stipulation for another person to come while the architecture just to show it being a 01:01:27
different view? No, we're we have a meeting with. 01:01:32
Tomorrow he can show us what what he has in mind. Well, I met the the people seeing it. There's hundred he could. 01:01:37
Show you as well and the people that. 01:01:43
Want to come see it? 01:01:46
I don't know that he needs to present. 01:01:47
Marty, would you like to alter your motion? 01:01:49
No. We can continue talking about it, but I don't want to alter my motion. I think it doesn't have to do with still seconds it all 01:01:53
in favor. 01:01:57
Aye, any opposed? 01:02:02
All right. I think, let's see, was there anything else on that agenda? 01:02:05
No, All right, that meeting is closed. Give us a couple minutes to turn over to the next meeting. 01:02:11
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