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  • Start Position
  • Chair Fullmer opened the meeting at07 PM. Boardmember Holdaway gave the invocation and led the Pledge of Allegiance.            PRESENTATIONS/RECOGNITIONS/AWARDS/PROCLAMATIONS There were no presentations.              CONSENT ITEMS1.    Approvalof December,2024, RDAMeeting Minutes Chair Fullmer called for a motion.
  • Motion: BOARDMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE THE CONSENT ITEM AS PRESENTED. BOARDMEMBER CLAWSON SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR FULLMER AND BOARDMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.            BUSINESSITEMS1.    BidAwardforArchitecturalServicesforthenewVineyardCenter(Resolution U2025-01)
  • Chair Fullmer turned the time over to RDA Director Josh Daniels.
  • Mr. Daniels reviewed the costs for the contract.
  • Community Development Director Morgan Brimreviewed the bid process and the recommendation to award the bid to Method Studios for architectural services of the new Vineyard Center. He explained why they had changed the name from the Civic Center to the Vineyard Center, to reflect that there would be other entities using the building. He reviewed the process and timeline for the project.
  • Chair Fullmer asked about inviting other users of the building. Mr. Brim explained that they were reaching out to other business to utilize the space.
  • Boardmember Clawson asked about the other bidders. Mr. Brim explained that they had narrowed it down to six firms and felt that Method Studios met their needs the best. Boardmember Clawson asked for additional information on the selection process. Senior Planner Cache Hancey reviewed the selection process. Mr. Brim mentioned that staff would be coming back for an RFP for a contractor. A discussion ensued.
  • Boardmember Sifuentes asked at what time in the process would they be able to come to the board with costs to build the building. Mr. Brim explained that they would narrow down the costs throughout the process. Boardmember Sifuentes asked if they could receive more information about the process and costs. City Manager Eric Ellis explained that at the February, budget retreat RDA’s financial consultant would have a presentation on their recommendation for their funding process. He noted that when working with the Architectural Firm and Construction Manager they would refine the costs and give them a budget to stay within. Mr. Brim mentioned that items such as electrical systems would take longer to get costs. He recommended that they start ordering some things early.
  • Boardmember Cameron asked about the estimated timeline for completion of the plans. Mr. Brim replied that they said that the completion of the plans would take six to nine months. He said that there was an alignment process on materials that would help the process move quicker. Mr. Brim commented that construction completion was anticipated to be towards the end of26. A discussion ensued.
  • Boardmember Holdaway noted that this project was times larger than any other spend they had ever done in the city and felt that a sixty-to-ninety-day social media survey should be done especially if they were going to bond for it.Chair Fullmer asked for clarification on Boardmember Holdaway’s comment on times larger than any other spend. There was a discussion about the cost of the building and how the city would pay for it. Mr. Ellis explained how the costs would be divided up and how this building would be a multipurpose structure that would create an economic development driver and community space in a cost effective way.
  • Chair Fullmer asked for clarification on Boardmember Holdaway’s comment about the RDA not producing. Boardmember Holdaway felt that the RDA had not produced at the rate to keep the same tax rate. Boardmember Sifuentes clarified that they city had only adjusted the tax rate once in years. Boardmember Holdaway thought that they paid twice the property taxes. Mr. Daniels clarified that the total property and sales tax had grown. Boardmember Holdaway felt that they had not grown at the level to keep the property taxes at the same rate. Chair Fullmer asked for clarification of the amount of property in the RDA. Boardmember Holdaway replied that half of the property in the city was in the RDA, and they were not paying the normal tax rate. He said that percent of the property taxes went to the city and percent went to the RDA. Boardmember Sifuentes explained that the RDA was allowing for development of a property that needed cleaned up. Mr. Daniels explained how the RDA worked and the value of the land from12 through22. He noted that the city received percent of the increased value. If it had not been developed it would have remained with a green belt exemption and have a possible negative land value. He noted that the land had a significant increase in value. He added that as the property develops there would be an increased share in sales tax revenues as well as property taxes.
  • Boardmember Clawson asked if the increase would be markedly larger than it would have been if it had been left sallow. He noted that the RDA property values had increased about times since12 and that his home value had increased one a half times in that time. Mr. Daniels further explained the value of developing the property in the RDA area.
  • Boardmember Holdaway asked if they could get a second option on the RDA. Chair Fullmer asked for clarification. Boardmember Holdaway wanted other financial advisors to come and give their opinion of the RDA. Chair Fullmer explained that they had multiple advisors talk to them about the RDA and they voted to allow it. She reviewed the growth of the city and the needs that the city had today and felt that they had established a pattern of being considerate of the taxpayer’s dollars.
  • A discussion continued about the value of the project area. Chair Fullmer asked for two examples of growth.
  • Boardmember Cameron thanked staff for the work they had done to this point. She thought that they were going to have a financial assessment before moving forward and wanted to postpone the vote until they got those numbers at the retreat. Chair Fullmer asked about the timeline and if they could have Lewis Roberston and Young come in sooner. Mr. Ellis reviewed the process and stated that the numbers were not part of tonight’s request. A discussion ensued. Boardmember Sifuentes wanted to get a ballpark number before they start the architecture process. Chair Fullmer suggested they postpone it two weeks so they could present updated numbers. The expectation was to have a sales tax revenue bond. Boardmember Cameron thanked Chair Fullmer for her work to make this happen. The discussion continued.
  • Chair Fullmer felt that the community would not be what it was unless they cleaned it up. It was not a tit-for-tat, they were investing in a cleanup to make it livable and viable. Boardmember Holdaway hoped that they would find a cheaper solution. Chair Fullmer agreed that they would get to a final resolution. A discussion ensued about additional plans and the growth of the city.
  • Motion: Boardmember Sifuentes moved to postpone this item to the meeting. Boardmember Cameron seconded the motion.
  • A discussion ensued regarding the motion.
  • Chair Fullmer, Boardmembers Cameron, Clawson, Holdaway, and Sifuentes voted yes. The motion carried unanimously.              ADJOURNMENT
  • Chair Fullmer adjourned the meeting at09 PM.       MINUTES APPROVED ON:   /12/2025   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:        Pamela Spencer, CIty Recorder
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Transcript

Event transcript
All right, I'm going to go ahead and. 00:00:05
Start the Redevelopment Agency board meeting. 00:00:08
It is January 29th and the time is 607. 00:00:12
We will have Councilmember Holdaway. 00:00:16
Lead us in an invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:18
And then we'll continue with our agenda. 00:00:21
Our dear, kind and gracious Heavenly Father, and we bow our heads before you this great. 00:00:27
Just a grateful. 00:00:31
For the opportunity we have to. 00:00:33
Be civilly and civically engaged. 00:00:35
In our city. 00:00:38
And to represent a. 00:00:39
Our citizens, we pray that. 00:00:41
We might have civility and understanding that our minds might be clear. 00:00:43
And that. 00:00:47
We might do the work of this people and these things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:00:49
Christ. 00:00:59
Flag of the United States of America. 00:01:02
I look for which. 00:01:08
One nation under God. 00:01:11
All right. The first item on the agenda is our consent agenda that has meeting minutes from December 11th. 00:01:20
Can I get a motion to approve? 00:01:26
Forward. 00:01:33
I move. I move to approve the minutes or the consent items as presented. 00:01:36
All right. I have a first from Marty. 00:01:41
Can I get a second? 00:01:43
2nd. 00:01:45
All right. Second from Brett. 00:01:46
All in favor. 00:01:48
Aye, any opposed? 00:01:50
All right. We'll move on to our business item, the bid award for architectural services for the new Vineyard Center Resolution 00:01:51
U2025-01. 00:01:57
And. 00:02:02
Josh, our RDA Director will go ahead and. 00:02:04
Present. 00:02:06
Great. Thank you. 00:02:09
So this is an item to award to the vendor method studio. 00:02:11
The bid. 00:02:18
After the RFP for. 00:02:19
Architectural and and. 00:02:22
Planning services. 00:02:23
For the Vineyard Center building, that will be down. 00:02:24
In the new downtown promenade. 00:02:28
Area. 00:02:30
So this particular expense? 00:02:32
The reason it's on the RDA agenda is because this was. 00:02:35
Envisioned as an expense from the RDA. 00:02:38
Capital projects. 00:02:43
Fun. So it'll be $1,000,000 from the Capital project fund. 00:02:45
The total cost of the planning and architectural work will be. 00:02:49
1.5 million, not to exceed 1.5 million, but. 00:02:53
Half a million will come from our partner Mountain Association of Governments MAG, who will also be. 00:02:56
Utilizing the the multi-purpose facility. 00:03:02
Occupying a good portion of the of the building. So it'll be kind of a joint project with MAG. 00:03:06
So in your packet and online. 00:03:13
There's. 00:03:16
Actual. 00:03:17
Bid proposal. 00:03:18
The details of the project. 00:03:20
Let me pull this up here. 00:03:22
Overhead. 00:03:27
So here's here's the overview of the 1.5 million. 00:03:39
This is your resolution. 00:03:43
And this is your. 00:03:45
The actual proposal from Methods Studio. 00:03:49
I think I'm going to turn it over to Morgan to kind of go into details of the actual. 00:03:54
Project plan and what method Studio is proposing to do. 00:03:59
Thank you, Josh. 00:04:05
So, umm. 00:04:06
We had 15 proposals. 00:04:07
Now talk. All right, great. Thank you, Mayor. 00:04:14
And uh. 00:04:17
HERB board members. 00:04:18
So we had 15 proposals from various firms, all firms that the the minimum requirements. So it was a very. 00:04:20
I would say pretty detailed process of going through each proposal and narrowing it down. We did interview 6 firms. 00:04:29
And met. The studio was fantastic, they had a really great team. 00:04:35
Their services would include the architectural services. 00:04:42
Which would also provide us landscaping for the site. 00:04:46
It'd be parking lot design. 00:04:49
And also like the exterior finishes helping us with the the interior finishes of while the building. So the idea is having a 00:04:53
complete package that we would be able to to construct. 00:04:58
A Civic Center, now we are calling it. 00:05:05
The Vineyard Center. 00:05:07
Because we are partnered with MAG, which is our regional metropolitan planning organization. 00:05:10
And so we needed to make kind of the the name of the site a little bit more general, but Vineyard Center, we kind of like the idea 00:05:15
like. 00:05:19
If you've been to Boise, the Boise Center is really interesting. It has. 00:05:22
A lot of different government entities as long as well as the the functions and operations of City Hall and so that seemed to. 00:05:26
To be kind of a good. 00:05:32
More general name as opposed to just Vineyard City Hall, so. 00:05:34
But the we're we're kind of in that that. 00:05:39
Polymer preliminary process. Once approved, we'd go through an alignment period where we would. 00:05:43
Work on just that, the general alignment of like what type of? 00:05:49
Architecture. Uh. 00:05:53
Architectural Materials. 00:05:54
The the, the spatial requirements, we did do a spatial needs analysis with Nelson Partners and so that helped us provide kind of 00:05:56
that that beginning conceptual idea of what City Hall would be in some of our special requirements. This would be tightening that 00:06:03
up working with MAG and Vineyard City to to understand kind of those some of those baseline. 00:06:10
Architectural material requirements. 00:06:18
Additionally, we're. 00:06:22
We're looking at, you know, six months as kind of the very fastest for the. 00:06:23
Project to be designed. 00:06:28
Potentially going up to. 00:06:31
To nine months. 00:06:34
A project of this size, the amount of of engineering and architectural design work that would need to be done to potentially push 00:06:36
it a little bit. 00:06:40
But we're going to do our best to try to keep it down to kind of a six month. 00:06:44
Period. One of our first steps would be to do a geotechnical report. So understanding the soil, soils, conditions, As many of 00:06:49
you've heard, there are areas in the town where we do have high water. 00:06:54
And then? 00:07:00
Areas where you would think you'd have high water, but you have very low, low water and so. 00:07:01
It'll require us to come in and do boring tests and to start that geotechnical report and then kind of a final survey that would 00:07:06
give us. 00:07:10
Some of that. 00:07:15
Kind of foundational information that the architect would then need. 00:07:16
To start the design, the project is. 00:07:20
It's lot 10A, so it's block 10. So if you're familiar with the Promenade, I'm sure most of you been out there kind of watching. 00:07:24
The park be constructed. 00:07:30
Familiar with where the Aquatic Center is going to be located? 00:07:32
Were that N block. This is a really exciting block because. 00:07:36
It's an opportunity to have City Hall transition into the park space that that's located right there. 00:07:41
But anyway, we're really excited to work with Method Studio They. 00:07:46
Or the project team that designed the arm. 00:07:51
City Hall. 00:07:55
And so they've they've worked quite a bit in this in this area and they've done a lot of municipal projects. 00:07:56
So any. 00:08:02
Questions from the City Council or from the RDA board. 00:08:03
And I have something we're also inviting some. 00:08:06
Private users. 00:08:09
Potentially as well some. 00:08:10
Accelerators and other people. 00:08:12
Yeah. And that's where the alignment period will help us out. That's that first initial phase in design, so. 00:08:14
Understanding, you know, we've had interest in business incubator space. 00:08:20
And trying to kind of grow businesses within. 00:08:26
Wait within. 00:08:29
Of inner city and providing some space where where we could do that. 00:08:31
That's great. Other questions from the board? 00:08:35
Great, please. 00:08:41
I I'd like a little bit more insight into some of the other. 00:08:45
Bids that were put in and what that? 00:08:49
Review process was like. 00:08:51
Sure. So the we put out the RFP and I believe it was. 00:08:53
Three weeks. 00:08:59
Two to three weeks. 00:09:01
For the for firms to submit. 00:09:03
I think we use side quests, right? That was kind of the online. 00:09:07
Approach over the years. 00:09:11
So yeah, I've got the 15 proposals. We go through the proposals, they have to meet all the minimum requirements. 00:09:13
And and really great great proposals varying costs I think met the studio was the. 00:09:19
Kind of the most cost effective and have had like the really appropriate team. 00:09:27
And so that's. 00:09:32
That that's ultimately kind of where we. 00:09:33
Where we decided to use them. 00:09:36
We narrowed it down to 6. 00:09:38
6 firms. 00:09:40
I could try it, I've got MHTN. 00:09:42
Galloway Cash probably knows that CRSA. 00:09:44
Two others on this thing. 00:09:50
GSPS. GSB. 00:09:53
There's one other. 00:09:55
Anyway, yeah, we had 6 great firms and we went through an interview process and we. 00:09:57
That we had a panel of Mag and Vineyard employees. 00:10:02
And we went through that process with them. 00:10:07
Just were able to we have them provide us a. 00:10:10
A presentation as far as like how long the project would take costs. 00:10:13
Like what? Who would be on their team? What their team would consist of? What each of those members would do? 00:10:19
How they could find creative ways to help us? 00:10:25
Kind of truncate the the construction process and some of them had some really good ideas like. 00:10:28
Coming out of the gate with. 00:10:33
With with with bid packages to maybe start like your foot that your footing's a foundation. 00:10:34
While uh. 00:10:40
The project gets designed, so you do that first phase where you get alignment, you understand kind of the footprint of the 00:10:41
building and it coming out. 00:10:44
Quickly with the footings of the foundation so you can start actually some construction. 00:10:47
While then you you you start to get the rest of the of the design. 00:10:51
Become completed. 00:10:57
And so, you know, finally, it's just kind of some creative ways to do a little bit of overlap with the design and the 00:10:58
construction. 00:11:01
And then they brought us through. 00:11:05
Different case studies or projects that they had worked on that were the most applicable. 00:11:08
To the project. 00:11:13
That that we're having them propose on. 00:11:15
So yeah, yeah, it was really great. And then. 00:11:18
We as as a as a group, we we all were pretty much aligned on on the method studio. 00:11:21
All six firms were really good, but this was the one from a price standpoint and it's just their creative approach to helping us 00:11:27
like truncate the timelines. 00:11:31
And to, you know, wherever we can save on construction costs, we felt like they were. 00:11:36
The most aligned with what we wanted. 00:11:42
So with that I'd also like to understand. 00:11:45
Of the of those six finalists, you're saying that method is? 00:11:49
Cost of the more cost effective. 00:11:53
What about there been? 00:11:56
Make makes them more cost effective. I mean in the in the bid are we talking about just like a. 00:11:57
A bottom line dollar amount and they were less. 00:12:02
I mean I I. 00:12:06
I'm sure all of us have done. 00:12:07
Some kind of contracting on a? 00:12:09
Very different scale. 00:12:11
Yeah. 00:12:13
But umm. 00:12:15
Right, right. I'd like to understand what cash you do you want to maybe some some of these? Yeah, Yeah, I can about with that so. 00:12:16
Essentially, we broke down everyone of these firms. 00:12:23
Prices and we looked at a base cost plus then. 00:12:26
We have like an extra, so they might offer something above and beyond what our scope was. I designed the security, yeah, and that 00:12:29
kind of. 00:12:32
So Method Studio came in at at just about. 00:12:36
4.5% of a 30 minute. 00:12:38
$30 million build. 00:12:40
Where every other firm was. 00:12:42
Well over 5%. So they were quite a bit cheaper than than just I believe almost $500,000 cheaper than most of the other bids. 00:12:43
Yeah, and as low as half. There were some that were, you know, pretty wild. 00:12:52
But, but that being said that that was one kind of scoring factor we also looked at. 00:12:57
Multiple different. 00:13:02
Aspects such as. 00:13:04
Who's on their team? What are their qualifications? What are the similar buildings that they designed? 00:13:05
And and how their style would fit within what? 00:13:10
We're looking to build here. 00:13:12
And and we weighed all of those out. 00:13:14
And and then we interviewed those six and method in their interview demonstrated that they. 00:13:16
They met. 00:13:21
All of our objectives the best. 00:13:22
Yeah, I'd say cost effective and they're they're, I mean, all the teams were really good. It was, it was kind of hard to say like. 00:13:23
Who has the the most talent you take? Someone like MHTN is phenomenal and. 00:13:29
Galloway they did. They did like the Saint George City Hall. 00:13:34
So there there was some really like. 00:13:38
Good heavy, heavy hitters on there. 00:13:39
But that the studio was fantastic. I mean, they took us through some of the projects or Orem City Hall being being one of those 00:13:41
and. 00:13:45
Just really impressed with the process and they got some really great. 00:13:48
Recommendations from Brian Clark, he's their deputy city manager over there. He worked really closely on the project, absolutely 00:13:52
loved working with them. So there is just really organized and like they do everything they can to help you like save on cost as 00:13:59
you go through the project. So one thing that will be coming back with is a an RFP to. 00:14:05
To get a contractor on board and that's that's what I was one of the recommendations is having a contractor on board as soon as 00:14:13
possible. 00:14:16
Because then you can work with that contractor to really try and wherever you can save costs since they're on. 00:14:19
They're kind of brought on during the design process. It helps as you go through the project and then turn it over to 00:14:26
construction. 00:14:29
That that kind of. 00:14:32
So when you when you say that we're starting the design process. 00:14:34
What I've been told throughout this. 00:14:40
Design process already is that. 00:14:42
We won't understand the complete numbers of the project until the. 00:14:44
That architectural drawings are done and so it kind of makes me concerned that we're going to start construction. 00:14:49
Before the. 00:14:54
Drawings are completed for us, so at what point are we going to start approving? 00:14:56
Those plans to make sure that the funding is something we can all agree on. 00:15:01
Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. I think that's what they they alignment. 00:15:04
Process as far as like that, that beginning process, it helps you try and try, try and get the cost. 00:15:09
Narrow down as as much as you can. 00:15:14
Obviously the more complete your project is like the the. 00:15:17
The better understanding you're going to have of where those costs are. 00:15:21
And so, you know, we don't necessarily have to come out of the gate with, with like a footing and foundation, but by by doing 00:15:26
those types of things, it, it, it helps you. 00:15:30
Kind of overlaps some of the process. 00:15:35
And keep your time frames truncated as much as possible. 00:15:38
You could have a full complete package and then start construction. It's just. 00:15:42
From like a you would just make your time frame for like a CFO. 00:15:46
Pushed out. So I'm wondering and this. I don't know if this is a question you'll want to answer, but. 00:15:52
We would love to see. 00:15:58
Like if we're talking about doing this expedited process. 00:16:00
It would be really great to actually. 00:16:03
I know we won't know the exact costs until the architecture is done. 00:16:05
Spell that out for us. 00:16:09
But knowing kind of the ideas and processes of how we're going to pay for this, I think having more information for the community 00:16:11
will help everyone. 00:16:15
Either get on board, or at least. 00:16:19
Fully know if they're not comfortable with it. 00:16:21
Fantastic. 00:16:25
Comment umm. 00:16:26
At our February 18th retreat. 00:16:30
Our financial consultant will be there giving us a presentation. 00:16:33
On. 00:16:37
Their recommendation for? 00:16:38
The funding process for this? 00:16:40
And to add to what Morgan has said. 00:16:43
We will in working with. 00:16:46
The architect and the construction manager. 00:16:47
We will be refining the. 00:16:51
But we are. 00:16:53
Giving them a budget and saying we really want to stick within this. 00:16:54
30 to $35 million range. 00:16:58
Can you work to keep us within that and? 00:17:01
And that's their goal right now. 00:17:04
And so we expected it to be. 00:17:06
Right in that range. 00:17:09
And there there are some things that they like they mentioned. 00:17:13
I was a electrical systems. 00:17:17
Like the things that are connected with the electrical systems take longer right now, just like the. 00:17:20
I'm just trying to get that material shipped over and they're on back order. 00:17:28
And so as you start to know kind of you start to hone in on like the needs of the facility. 00:17:33
There are some things that you want to start ordering so you can. 00:17:40
You can save on time by just in like when you order stuff instead of waiting. You know like like a month before you need. 00:17:44
Utilizing construction and like trying to get on it early. 00:17:51
So I have a question. What was? What did they say the estimated time frame was from the time? 00:17:55
They start drawing the plans till completion. Did they give you? 00:18:00
An idea how long will it take? So completion of the plans was 6 to 9 months and so we're going to do our best to try to keep them 00:18:04
nearer to the six month. 00:18:07
Process. 00:18:11
And but you know, I, I would you always want to kind of assume. 00:18:12
A little bit longer. And so I think if you use nine months like that, that would give you like from the time that they get the go 00:18:16
ahead and they start. 00:18:19
Until they're completed because there is an alignment process that beginning piece that that is really important. And so if we 00:18:24
can. 00:18:27
Come to alignment on materials, the just refining the conceptual plan like those types of things that'll then help the process go 00:18:31
a little further construction. 00:18:36
I believe. 00:18:41
End of 26 cap. 00:18:43
So from from a month standpoint, when they start construction, that was like a. 00:18:45
12:00 to. 00:18:50
18 or something like that, that's kind of. 00:18:51
Yeah, from the time they start. 00:18:53
Mm-hmm. 00:18:57
Able to start like your footing and foundation. That'll save you a lot of time. 00:18:58
To clarify, I'm so sorry. 00:19:03
Didn't hear that exactly. So you said that construction would start? 00:19:05
End of 26 years. 00:19:09
Mag has asked. 00:19:11
And is really. 00:19:14
In a position that they would like to be into their new space. 00:19:15
By the end of 26. 00:19:19
That's when. 00:19:21
In their other Vineyard offices. 00:19:23
Concludes. 00:19:26
And they're hoping to be able to shift over at the end of that lease. 00:19:27
That's the date that we're pushing on. 00:19:32
If at all possible, if it doesn't happen, we can. 00:19:34
I'm sure that there's ways that we can work around that. 00:19:36
Any other questions? 00:19:43
I think everyone knows where I stand on this. 00:19:47
So I don't want to belabor the point that I I've got to see the end from the beginning. 00:19:50
And since it is. 00:19:54
20 times larger than the largest. 00:19:56
Spend we've ever done as a city. 00:19:58
I believe that a. 00:20:01
60 to 90 day. 00:20:02
Social media. 00:20:05
And a mass survey of like, hey, where you feel, if not a bond. 00:20:07
If it is going to go to bond. 00:20:11
Because of our precarious financial situation. 00:20:13
You know our property tax is already double. 00:20:16
That's that leg is gonna be difficult. 00:20:19
I I wish we had clarity on sales tax. 00:20:22
Adding a. 00:20:24
Wendy's the McDonald's is not. 00:20:25
Going to do that. So it's basically our only. 00:20:28
Bonding is through the RDA or committing long term through RDA financing at least. 00:20:30
Getting outside experts of like. 00:20:35
What are? 00:20:36
What's the ability to do that? 00:20:37
And then even getting to that bond market. 00:20:39
From the. 00:20:42
Situation we're in that. 00:20:42
Interest rates going to be extremely high. It's not going to be something that Orem has or other cities just because. 00:20:44
We don't have that. 00:20:50
That tax base I know we could pay out of the RDA for 20 or 30 years. 00:20:52
But that's stealing from Peter to pay Paul. 00:20:56
And so. 00:21:00
I just. 00:21:01
If it is something, I want to hear it from the citizens and have them. 00:21:02
Like, hey, this is what we're doing. 00:21:06
And that they know. 00:21:08
And that we're tying their hands. I understand the staff's need for. 00:21:10
Office space. 00:21:14
You know, I understand. Maybe we're cramped or. 00:21:15
You need to find situations to where it is. 00:21:19
I feel horrible that vineyards in a financial situation that is unknown to any other city in the county. 00:21:21
You know, with how? 00:21:27
The RDA hasn't produced over 20 years. 00:21:28
But if we just. 00:21:30
Dig down. Then it ties our hands to. 00:21:32
We can't really do. 00:21:36
Much. 00:21:37
You know, it really does. 00:21:38
Ties down and so that's kind of where. 00:21:40
Where I stand and so just knowing the end from the beginning like. 00:21:42
When I build a house, it's like. 00:21:45
I got another total dollar amount and I got to go to the bank and I go, hey, this OK, this is it. 00:21:47
I don't start and put footings in and start. 00:21:51
Designing it. 00:21:53
If I don't know the end that I could make that. 00:21:54
And it will be a. 00:21:57
A high interest payment, you know. So I have a quick question for you. 00:21:58
What do you mean when you say 20 times larger than anything we've done as a city? Have we built a building larger than a million? 00:22:02
OK. So you're talking specifically about? 00:22:09
Building infrastructure. 00:22:12
I believe that this building. 00:22:14
How much was this program? Only $1,000,000? 00:22:16
No, it's just under 2. 00:22:19
This building was under 2. 00:22:20
OK, so. 00:22:22
Infrastructure wise. 00:22:24
Are you saying that we would be spending the $30 million by ourselves? Is that? 00:22:26
What's the 30 to 35 is what you just said right? 00:22:32
That's the total cost of the structure. So yeah, the partners that are involved will be. 00:22:35
Taking large chunks of that right the 8th. 00:22:40
Not not 88 just happens to be what one of the partners happens to have on hand. 00:22:44
But their portion of the structure will be more. 00:22:49
More like a. 00:22:52
3rd or if not a little bit more than that. 00:22:53
Right, but we would be bonding. 00:22:55
The other portion that they were short, right? 00:22:57
Oh go ahead, I'm just reiterating what this city may be bonding for. 00:23:00
But the the way we structure a bond is that. 00:23:04
We have tenants in our. 00:23:07
In our building. 00:23:08
To pay an annual lease and that lease amount goes into the payment of the bond and so. 00:23:10
If we're dividing our bond into. 00:23:15
Three pieces, effectively. 00:23:17
That leads us with just a third of the actual payment that we need to come up with. 00:23:19
A mag comes up with a third of the payment. 00:23:24
Our other lease space covers the the remaining third, so. 00:23:26
What you'll find is that. 00:23:30
Really. No other cities? 00:23:31
At least in the near proximity of Utah Valley. 00:23:33
Have created a. 00:23:36
A structure. A multi-purpose structure in their city to satisfy the needs of. 00:23:38
Of City Hall, but also to create an economic development driver. 00:23:44
And a community space. And so this, this is really. 00:23:47
Different than. 00:23:51
Vineyard coming up with the idea to have a. 00:23:52
An enormous City Hall. 00:23:54
This is a city center that will provide all of these other unique needs. 00:23:56
Or provide for them. 00:24:01
And do so in a in a very cost effective way we have. 00:24:02
Donated land for the project. 00:24:06
And then with these partners, it makes this project. 00:24:08
Surprisingly uh. 00:24:11
Affordable, even if. 00:24:12
We're a mid size city. 00:24:15
And it's like what? It was you you said. 00:24:17
The RDA hasn't. 00:24:20
Produced. What did you mean by that? 00:24:21
Well, we, we, we haven't produced at the rate in which. 00:24:25
To keep the same tax rate that other cities have. So we've had to. 00:24:28
Continually go back to citizens ask for enough for a higher rate because half of our. 00:24:33
Properties in the RDA and hasn't produced it at a rate high enough to. 00:24:39
Compensate for that. 00:24:43
We've adjusted the rate once in 20 years, just to clarify. 00:24:45
Right. Our tax rate, we've only adjusted once in 20 years. I just want to clarify because you're on public record. 00:24:50
Well, maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying. 00:24:57
Charles, do you have a handle on what? 00:25:01
Jake is expressing right now with the RDA not producing that you could clarify or I mean, I'm sure it's pretty. I'm not saying 00:25:03
it's not producing any money. What I'm saying is, is that we pay twice the property tax. 00:25:08
Because 20 years ago we said, hey, we're going to give. 00:25:14
These others a discount and have them only have. 00:25:17
Pay 25% in the other 75 go into. 00:25:20
The RDA, right? 00:25:23
And then we only get the increase. 00:25:26
So yeah, I mean. 00:25:29
If you look at the total property tax and sales tax revenue, Vineyard. 00:25:32
He's grown overtime. I'm not saying it hasn't grown, I mean. 00:25:37
Every every city from 20 years ago, Orem's growing Provost grown. I mean, they're. 00:25:40
Four or five times larger. What I'm saying is, is that. 00:25:44
It hasn't grown at the level. 00:25:47
That it would keep our property taxes the same as other cities so. 00:25:49
We're getting outpaced. 00:25:53
And I agree with you 20 years ago we. 00:25:55
Locked in at a higher rate because we were giving half the property the RDA. 00:25:58
But year over year, you're hoping that that would go down back to. 00:26:02
What did you mean we were getting half the property of the RDA? I don't think I understand. I'm not. 00:26:07
Half of. 00:26:12
Property in our city. Mayor is in the RDA. 00:26:13
And. 00:26:17
They don't pay the normal tax rate. 00:26:18
They pay it and then they. 00:26:21
They that only 25% comes back to us. 00:26:22
And then the other 75% goes into the RDA, but how did that affect us increase so many years ago? 00:26:27
How did my property have nothing on it? 00:26:33
They would still be paying a property. 00:26:37
Tax bill at 100% at that rate. 00:26:39
I mean, I I can't say exactly what would be there if we didn't have the RDA. 00:26:44
But the RDA has been driving this development. 00:26:49
So now we take. 00:26:52
What would have just been? 00:26:53
A brownfield or. 00:26:55
Something that needed cleanup. 00:26:56
And we've made it into this. 00:26:58
Development in this Community and we are driving with economic development. 00:27:00
With the yard and the Fords coming up and with Utah City and So what would have just been. 00:27:05
Geneva that needs cleanup. 00:27:11
And little Vineyard. 00:27:12
Responsible for taking care of it. 00:27:14
Instead, the entities, the partners. 00:27:16
Have all agreed Alpine school district the water. 00:27:19
The county. 00:27:24
They've all, they all agreed upon this. 00:27:26
And with us? 00:27:29
That we felt that it was smart to invest in this land to clean it up. 00:27:30
To build the needed infrastructure. 00:27:34
And this all. 00:27:36
Like you can say it goes out, it doesn't go back to us, but it does right now we're talking about. 00:27:37
Using that RDA money. 00:27:42
To help. 00:27:44
Provide for the community. 00:27:45
And so whether or not we put it towards the city. 00:27:47
Center. What do we call it? The center? 00:27:50
Whether we put it towards that or not. 00:27:54
I will strongly disagree with you on your points because I feel that the RDA is doing just that. 00:27:56
Geneva serviced our entire country. 00:28:01
During World War 2, you could arguably say the world. 00:28:04
It gave high paying jobs. 00:28:06
People throughout our entire county. 00:28:08
It had made. 00:28:11
It definitely was something that we all benefited from. 00:28:12
And then it was gone. 00:28:16
And it needed to be cleaned up. Art. 00:28:17
So I just shared this. I've shared this slide before, but to your point so. 00:28:20
The value of the land. 00:28:25
Which started in the Geneva project area with a base value of 125 million. 00:28:27
This chart shows the assessed. 00:28:33
Values over time starting in 2012. 00:28:35
You know the RDA. 00:28:39
Came into existence 2009. The project plans adopted in 2011. 00:28:41
We began triggering parcels in 2014. 00:28:45
So what's happened over time is the total value. 00:28:49
Of the project area. 00:28:53
Has gone from the base value of 125 million or so. 00:28:55
Up to over 1.5 billion. So the vision or the plan? 00:28:59
Is that? 00:29:03
The increased. 00:29:05
Taxable value of the land. 00:29:06
Increases faster. 00:29:08
Because of the sort of upfront investment in infrastructure. 00:29:10
ETC. So that overtime. 00:29:14
You end up. 00:29:17
With more. 00:29:17
Property tax. 00:29:19
Revenue than you would have otherwise. 00:29:20
Even though to your point. 00:29:23
The city and the other taxing entities. 00:29:24
Are only getting. 00:29:27
Will 100% of the base value taxable value tax revenues? Which is that blue line? 00:29:28
But then 25%. 00:29:34
Of the marginal. 00:29:36
Increase the increment. 00:29:37
In the value of the land overtime so. 00:29:39
I don't have a line in this chart. It'd be. I'll edit it and so then future it'll show the. 00:29:42
What would the 25% of that total value look like? Right? 00:29:47
But the property tax? 00:29:51
Revenue. 00:29:53
The Vineyard is 25% of the city's property tax. 00:29:54
Rate across this total value line. 00:29:59
Because the value increases. 00:30:03
Because of the development, because of the investment of. 00:30:05
You know, and for some of its development, but some of it's just time like. 00:30:07
Let's let's have Josh continue because I think this isn't right, but we need to correct. No, but. 00:30:11
Well, I mean I'm pretty much done with the point. Just the idea the city is still going to get a 25% of the property tax. 00:30:16
Property tax revenue they would have gotten. 00:30:23
On the increased value and so because the values increase significantly over the base. 00:30:25
Then your property tax. 00:30:31
Values. 00:30:32
And revenues go up and so to your point. 00:30:33
With the property value have gone up regardless. 00:30:36
Well, yes and no, because. 00:30:39
The entirety of the project area, the vineyard, the Geneva site was in. 00:30:42
Greenbelt. 00:30:46
And if it was not? 00:30:48
Purchased and put into some private development. 00:30:49
Put into residential or commercial uses. 00:30:53
It would have remained with Greenbelt exempt. 00:30:56
And so not only would you have the base value of 125 million. 00:30:59
Maybe the value would go up? 00:31:03
But arguably that the challenge with the site. 00:31:05
Was what's the commercial? 00:31:08
Value to a developer or anybody? What's the? 00:31:10
Highest and best used market value of the land. 00:31:14
If the land requires the investment of. 00:31:16
Remediating the site, preparing it for other uses, right And so? 00:31:19
Some people would say. 00:31:24
It had a negative value. 00:31:25
The no signal value that was assigned. 00:31:27
As a base of 125,000,000. 00:31:29
With a Greenbelt exemption. 00:31:32
Which means that. 00:31:33
The taxable value. 00:31:35
Would have been significantly less than 125 million. 00:31:37
Because, uh. 00:31:40
Of the 125 million assessed. 00:31:41
Market value. 00:31:44
Which some would argue is actually 0 or negative. 00:31:45
Because of the required remediation. 00:31:48
Even if it was. 00:31:50
Taxed based on an assessed value of 125 million, you would have a Greenbelt exemption. 00:31:51
Which would say we're going to tax the land as if it's basically farmland. 00:31:56
Which you get really pennies on the dollar. 00:32:00
If you're using it as adland. 00:32:03
Versus residential use or commercial use. 00:32:05
Well, and you couldn't use it as. 00:32:09
Until you cleaned it. 00:32:11
Yeah, so it could only be. 00:32:13
Visually used as I think the government the assessment would just. 00:32:14
Give it Greenbelt exemption because it's fallow and unusable because it's brownfield site. 00:32:19
Effectively, you just wouldn't have gotten a lot of tax value if nobody would put in the work. 00:32:24
To prepare the site for development and then actually do development and then sell those parcels off for. 00:32:29
Commercial or residential uses so that you have property taxpayers. 00:32:34
That are paying residential or commercial property taxes. 00:32:38
So I don't know that it's. 00:32:43
Actually been bad. I mean I think this is. 00:32:46
This is pretty significant increase in value. 00:32:48
And I think it's driven. 00:32:50
Largely by the investment of preparing the site for development and then developing it and then selling it and using it for 00:32:52
residential, commercial purposes. 00:32:56
And then and then to your question. 00:32:59
About revenues this. 00:33:01
Chart shows the revenues over time. 00:33:03
I think one of the other visions is that as you develop this city center area with. 00:33:05
Various mixed-use. 00:33:10
Some residential but. 00:33:12
Commercial and retail. 00:33:13
You'll see increases in sales tax revenues. 00:33:15
And you've seen over time since 2014. 00:33:18
An increased share of the cities. 00:33:20
Revenue coming from sales. 00:33:24
As well as. 00:33:27
As the property. 00:33:28
But a couple of thoughts on. 00:33:33
Some of this. 00:33:36
I think the the real question what? 00:33:38
Jake is getting at his. 00:33:39
Is the increase. 00:33:42
Markedly larger than it would have been if it were left fallow. 00:33:44
And uh. 00:33:47
Is I'm looking at that chart. 00:33:49
Just generically. 00:33:53
It looks like. 00:33:55
With RDA, that property value is increased by about 12 times. 00:33:57
Since the beginning. 00:34:01
Give or take in. 00:34:03
I don't have the actual numbers, I'm just looking at the chart. 00:34:04
That's pretty significant. 00:34:09
And then looking at the chart and guessing. 00:34:11
From. 00:34:14
Like my home? 00:34:15
Purchased it in 2017. 00:34:17
And looking at the value on there and then looking at what? 00:34:19
I believe the value of my home is and just thinking about OK. I haven't done any additional improvement to my home to make it 00:34:22
worth a ton more. 00:34:25
My home is increased by about 1 1/2 times. 00:34:29
In that time period. 00:34:32
With nothing. 00:34:34
And it looked like that RDA value had increased by about two times. 00:34:35
Roughly. 00:34:38
So I mean. 00:34:40
I know that is. 00:34:41
Really. 00:34:42
Bad analysis. 00:34:43
But it is. 00:34:45
Better than anything. 00:34:46
That we've. 00:34:49
Heard so far. 00:34:50
I think a fair concern would be. 00:34:52
It seems like the values increased, but man, couldn't it have increased a lot more? 00:34:55
One thing to keep in mind is that most of the development in the. 00:34:59
To date has been residential. 00:35:03
And what's planned in the future? 00:35:05
Is a lot more commercial and retail use. You know, you got a grocery store for example, coming later. 00:35:07
This year and and if you look at the sort of. 00:35:13
Utah City Downtown Center development and what's being planned. 00:35:17
There's a lot more mixed-use, a lot more. 00:35:21
Commercial, uh. 00:35:24
Businesses. 00:35:25
Retail. 00:35:26
I think that's the division for this multi-purpose building is to also draw. 00:35:27
That type of activity. 00:35:31
So commercial property doesn't have residential exemptions, You get actually more property tax revenue. 00:35:32
From commercial development and certainly from retail development. 00:35:38
With the added bonus of sales tax revenue, so. 00:35:41
I think if there's a feeling that. 00:35:44
Revenues haven't increased as fast as people might have liked to date. 00:35:46
A lot of that. 00:35:50
Could be attributed to the fact that. 00:35:50
Most of the development to date has been residential. 00:35:52
And I think you're looking at the next. 00:35:55
Phase, if you will, the next several years. 00:35:57
Being more commercial and retail development than ever before in the recent past. 00:36:00
So I think that's going to also drive. 00:36:05
Changes in your sales and property tax revenues going forward. 00:36:07
It's about 20X on the value, so 125,000,000 base value. 00:36:11
Upwards of 2 1/2. 00:36:16
Billion today. 00:36:17
And we'll be working with our financial advisors from LRB through this process. 00:36:19
Right. You guys mentioned that it'd be a dual process. 00:36:24
Yeah. 00:36:27
OK, in our last meeting I'd asked if we would get a second opinion and allow others to have a different. 00:36:29
You want me arguing to publicly? 00:36:34
Share theirs. I know there wasn't an appetite then. 00:36:36
I think it's important. 00:36:39
That you get a second opinion. 00:36:40
Jamie, can you define what you mean by a second opinion? 00:36:43
Yeah, I mean. 00:36:46
I've been able to sit down with quite a few different people. 00:36:47
They go through the RDA and. 00:36:51
The modeling of what? 00:36:53
What it was even just the. 00:36:54
People that were originally involved like. 00:36:56
Chris, Chad and others and just talked to him and saying what is working, what isn't. 00:36:58
I guess I. 00:37:02
Remembering it correctly. 00:37:04
If we were hoping that we would not be paying twice the property tax rate and that the sales tax and the businesses come. 00:37:05
That come from it. 00:37:11
Would be able to keep this on par with the other cities. 00:37:13
And so that's my comment is it hasn't OK, so you're. 00:37:15
2nd that's how I would get rate. 00:37:19
Opinion is from. 00:37:21
A financial advisor. 00:37:23
To look over the RDA, is that what we're talking about? No, I I've definitely talked to a lot of really good professionals that 00:37:25
have have looked into the RDA and I'd love them to come and and share what a different point of view. 00:37:30
So we have had multiple advisors come and talk to us about the RDA. 00:37:35
And having served with Chris, I think he was always understanding that at some point. 00:37:39
If we were unable to. 00:37:44
Focus solely on economic development. 00:37:46
For the downtown and. 00:37:49
The growth that would happen with the mixed-use development that he helped. 00:37:51
Arranged and put in. 00:37:55
That we wouldn't be able to build the increment. 00:37:56
But he very much understood the. 00:37:59
I can't speak for him. 00:38:02
But I do know how he voted. 00:38:03
And I do know what he voted on. 00:38:05
And I would say that. 00:38:07
I do know where we are today. 00:38:09
Based on those votes. 00:38:11
And it's not just that we've worked with. 00:38:12
Lewis and Young. 00:38:14
About Zions Bank and. 00:38:15
The entire RDA caucus and the people that have come and looked at our RDA and the many people that continue to come and work with 00:38:18
us on it and. 00:38:21
I think we're doing. 00:38:26
A very good job. 00:38:27
At our process here, I think something to be aware of when we're just comparison. 00:38:28
Comparing our spends on facilities. 00:38:34
Is that the first building that we had here? 00:38:37
We have. 00:38:41
Maybe 3 employees. 00:38:41
And when I started, we had like 150 people. 00:38:43
And I think when I ran for City Council, there were 700 people. 00:38:46
And then when we built this building, there were very few employees still. We hadn't built out the teams that we have. 00:38:50
We didn't have all of the residents that we have today, so we didn't need to file as many streets. 00:38:56
We didn't even have the streets that we have today. 00:39:00
Or the water, or the. 00:39:03
The needs that we have today, we didn't have the water tank that we put in and so we have. 00:39:05
We have different needs today. 00:39:10
And when we are saying we. 00:39:12
We're looking for a place that we can house. 00:39:14
More office space. 00:39:17
And why we want to partner with these people. 00:39:18
And create a space that fits. 00:39:21
Our employees. 00:39:24
I think. 00:39:26
It's it's that we've been lucky. 00:39:27
To be frugal. 00:39:30
And frugal even now. 00:39:31
As we have been in the past. 00:39:33
And same with our fire station. 00:39:35
We could have spent a lot of money on it, but we came up with a. 00:39:37
Fiscally conservative. 00:39:40
Opportunity to build a fire station that we could grow into. 00:39:42
And that we. 00:39:46
And we were able to save a lot of money as a community. 00:39:47
And I think. 00:39:49
Just like you're coming in with this assessment of. 00:39:51
Method and what they're bringing to the table, not just with skills, but the amount that they're bringing to the table and. 00:39:53
The reduction of cost. 00:39:59
It's following that same pattern. 00:40:01
That we have. 00:40:03
That we have established chair and vineyard and trying to be very thoughtful and considerate of the taxpayer dollars. 00:40:04
Are there any? Are there any other questions or thoughts on this? 00:40:10
Otherwise, I think we need. I would just. 00:40:15
Send it with one more comment. 00:40:17
Sure. 00:40:19
When I go get a home loan. 00:40:21
The banker wants me to do a home loan. 00:40:22
When I go to build a building, the builder wants me to build a building. 00:40:26
Everyone that you described in that RDA process, whether it be Zions Bank or that consultant, is getting paid by the RDA. 00:40:30
To give us advice in our financially biased, to say yes it is working, continue to dig. 00:40:37
Continue today. 00:40:42
As you go out and look at other Rda's, whether it be. 00:40:44
Ora Mall, Costco or. 00:40:47
Cabela's. 00:40:50
They are functioning and they have brought. 00:40:52
So much more money into and created a business. 00:40:54
Situation, that is. 00:40:58
Lower their taxes. 00:40:59
Whereas it hasn't done that here. 00:41:01
And Vineyard. And so that's why we're paying twice the property tax so. 00:41:03
That isn't actually there's no property like ours. There's no I know, I know there's no right. 00:41:09
That requires completely understand that, but but what you're saying isn't actually true. 00:41:14
The people that I'm talking about weren't just. 00:41:19
Financers that were coming in and giving unbiased decisions objectively that had no. 00:41:22
Which ones? 00:41:28
Not pay to come and. 00:41:30
Analyze it. You always pay people to do right. I know, but. 00:41:31
But also this time we do we, the RDA group that I talked about are just people across the state with expertise in this. 00:41:34
That come and they work together to come up with the best situations for communities and we sit on those boards and we work. 00:41:41
Through uh. 00:41:48
How these? 00:41:49
Even people that work on Rdas in the school district like Rob Smith. 00:41:50
Who was is giving up? 00:41:56
Funding in order to. 00:41:57
Make this a possibility because he knows how valuable it is to the. 00:41:59
The kids and the community. 00:42:03
As we are bringing in those people because we can clean up the site. 00:42:05
And I. 00:42:09
When you say we've brought no taxable value to the community, it's just not. 00:42:10
Not no taxable value obviously we we did increase in property value. What I'm saying is we didn't bring in a business tax base in 00:42:15
order to. 00:42:19
At the level of growth. 00:42:23
You know if we if the starting of the Rea is 2011 we're talking about. 00:42:25
Prime land and you're talking about Glendale? 00:42:30
They're talking around. 00:42:32
30 uh. 00:42:34
40,000 an acre back in. 00:42:35
2011, right? 00:42:37
So now you're talking about a. 00:42:38
Quarter acre for 400K. So it's the same percentage growth as that. 00:42:40
That's what I'm saying. 00:42:45
And so you know. 00:42:47
I agree with Brett's like, hey, this went up, but. 00:42:49
Everyone's. 00:42:52
I think we're gonna have to agree to this series. This chart actually does help kind of get to your question. 00:42:53
So the two lines here. 00:42:58
Are the land values in the RDA project area in blue? 00:43:01
And then the land values in the rest of Vineyard City, that's not in the RDA project area. And so you'll see the slope of the line 00:43:06
significantly change in 2017. 00:43:12
I think that correlates with. 00:43:19
When a lot of the residential development started to actually get sold and people began to move in by those properties. 00:43:21
And So what you can see is the slope of the line in the rest of Vineyard. 00:43:29
And how it grew overtime as land values increased. 00:43:33
And perhaps as some additional development took place in terms of infill in those existing areas. 00:43:37
But then you can see the slope of the line in blue. 00:43:42
Which is the RDA project area's land values. 00:43:45
And the slope of that line is significantly steeper, so. 00:43:48
Where it's telling you. 00:43:51
Is that the overall ran value within the RDA project area in terms of its slope? 00:43:52
Of increase outpaces. 00:43:59
The sort of non RDA. 00:44:01
Parcels now granted there's more there's more area that hasn't been developed right. So that's part of what's happening here is 00:44:03
your. 00:44:06
As you're taking land, that's. 00:44:09
Empty and needs remediation and then turning it into something of. 00:44:11
Of value. 00:44:15
So I think. 00:44:17
That's that goes to the heart of your concern is. 00:44:18
You want the slope of that blue line to be significantly steeper. 00:44:21
Than the red line you want the value. 00:44:24
Of the project area. 00:44:27
To outpace in its increased. 00:44:29
From adjacent parcels that aren't. 00:44:32
Part of the project area. 00:44:34
Smart easy comment. 00:44:38
You have shared a slide. 00:44:41
This is, I don't think this, we've had this conversation many times where we've showed the value of the RDA. So it's not like we 00:44:43
need to go through it, but just because people are sitting here. 00:44:48
And I think it's difficult to understand because we keep saying there's no value brought in by it, but there is value brought in 00:44:53
by it and how it returns back to the people. 00:44:57
One of the sites that you had presented in the past was. 00:45:02
The Megaplex. 00:45:06
Do you still have that information up or that you could? 00:45:07
Kind of so that. 00:45:09
I think we all know that. 00:45:11
Some examples work. 00:45:13
Out of all of them, OK, well, the reason why I'm having it presented and the reason why 2 examples work. 00:45:15
Is because the downtown. 00:45:20
Is being cleaned up and remediated. 00:45:22
So when you say they're not working because there's no businesses on them, they must first be claimed to have businesses on them. 00:45:24
They must first be planned out, the infrastructure has to be put in. 00:45:31
So you can't see that same returns. 00:45:35
When you're talking about, what does it do? 00:45:37
When we say, well, what does Top Golf do? 00:45:39
What does the megaplex do? 00:45:42
What happens? 00:45:44
When we. 00:45:45
Great, came the site when we did put the infrastructure in. 00:45:46
And we see those buildings come up. 00:45:49
What is some of the return that we get to see? 00:45:51
And what you're saying is it's not working in the downtown but? 00:45:53
It hasn't happened yet. 00:45:57
And it will happen. And when it does. 00:45:58
The two examples that we're talking about because. 00:46:00
Or a young city. 00:46:02
That's been growing fast and these are the ones that are popping up. 00:46:04
Are very critical and. 00:46:07
See examples. And that's why we go back to them. 00:46:09
Yeah, I don't know if I can find the chart specific to the megaplex site. I'm not sure if I may be incorporated as the RDA total, 00:46:21
but. 00:46:24
That's OK if we don't have the information on hand. 00:46:27
Maybe we can refer back to it in the minutes. 00:46:30
So that people can access it. 00:46:33
When they look at the minutes today, they can refer back to that link. 00:46:35
Council, does anybody have any questions regarding the? 00:46:39
Presentation. Or can I have a motion? 00:46:43
I so please. 00:46:48
So, Morgan and Cash, thanks for the work you did. 00:46:50
I think. 00:46:55
It's great to hear how you. 00:46:55
Are trying to be. 00:46:59
Really careful and conscious and get the most value. 00:47:01
For the city's money. 00:47:04
I had understood that we were going to have like a financial. 00:47:07
Assessments. 00:47:11
Before we, you know. 00:47:12
Moves in this direction. So I'm I'm happy to hear that we're going to talk about that in the budget retreat. 00:47:14
And I think if we could postpone the vote until we. 00:47:20
Have that budget retreat and we can go through all the numbers and. 00:47:23
And honestly, like it was. 00:47:26
It was really encouraging to hear. 00:47:28
What Huntsman? 00:47:30
Is going to bring to our city. 00:47:32
That was massive and I felt much better about this now. 00:47:34
Knowing that that's. 00:47:38
About four years, I think from the time they start their four years. 00:47:40
Until they're completed. 00:47:43
Right, so that. 00:47:45
That changes the dynamic of this. 00:47:46
In a big way for me. 00:47:48
So that's exciting. 00:47:50
But if we can go over this. 00:47:52
In that budget, retreat and get all the numbers and see exactly what that looks like. 00:47:55
I I would feel a lot better. 00:48:00
About it. 00:48:02
What does the timing look like? I mean, could we? 00:48:06
Have LRV come in sooner? 00:48:09
If you're concerned about it. 00:48:11
I'm not sure I understand. 00:48:19
The LRB can come in tomorrow. They're they're working on the numbers, they're preparing those for February 18th. 00:48:21
Our plan had been. 00:48:27
All along. 00:48:28
To move ahead with this process so that we could have better numbers to present to Council. 00:48:29
But that this planning cycle. 00:48:35
Was to flesh out. 00:48:37
The final cost it was not. 00:48:39
To have final cost before the planning begins, because that would be. 00:48:41
Arbitrary. 00:48:46
At best. 00:48:48
And so the the goal of hiring an architect and getting them on board. 00:48:49
And going through this process is to. 00:48:54
Hammer out those numbers so that we can confidently say. 00:48:56
Yes, these are the final numbers and in the in the interim. 00:48:59
We are working with our financial consultant to determine the best. 00:49:03
Financial Route. 00:49:08
To pursue this project. 00:49:09
And so right now we have method on board. 00:49:12
We started initial. 00:49:16
Planning with them. 00:49:19
It would be very beneficial for us to. 00:49:20
Be able to. 00:49:23
Proceed with that. 00:49:24
So that we don't hold up. 00:49:26
The ability to get to that though. 00:49:27
Honed in numbers. 00:49:30
And so you you will get. 00:49:32
You will get a. 00:49:34
A financial path from LRB. 00:49:35
Presented on the 18th. 00:49:38
That is unrelated to. 00:49:41
Progress that's getting made with with our architectural consultant. 00:49:44
And then as we get closer to those final numbers. 00:49:48
LRB simply needs to plug in the. 00:49:52
Updated. 00:49:54
Estimates that are the. 00:49:55
Actual and and then you'll be presented with. 00:49:57
A bond option. 00:50:01
Sarah, that's what you meant, right? That. 00:50:02
You were hoping that LRV would. 00:50:05
For the total cost of the. 00:50:07
The center that's going to be coming. 00:50:11
And not the design costs, right and you're just hoping to see it before we kind of. 00:50:13
To have like an idea of it. 00:50:17
I like the clarity that you're providing because I I think also the process that you're going through is also architect and 00:50:20
construction. 00:50:23
Engineering together to make sure that costs don't go out of. 00:50:27
Scope and that LRB assesses those as we go. 00:50:30
So that we don't go out of scope because sometimes what happens? 00:50:34
Method. I don't know if you're here but you guys. 00:50:38
Architects are dreamers. 00:50:40
And they dream really big and then it kind of goes out of scope a little bit. 00:50:42
And then the construction comes in and that's where you see the costs go up. 00:50:46
That's what you're explaining, and so LRV would be there. 00:50:50
Not only to kind of review that. 00:50:53
As you're already keeping it in with engineering, but to come up with a financial means for how we would actually pay for it. 00:50:55
Do you have any thoughts on that or would you still like to see it moved a little bit? 00:51:02
Well, I just. 00:51:07
I would like to know. 00:51:08
Um. 00:51:10
That the numbers that the numbers work before we commit went into the. 00:51:15
Architect. 00:51:19
OK. 00:51:21
Like even just an idea so. 00:51:22
They think the thing that we're. 00:51:24
I don't wanna just rubber stamp this without knowing practicalities and I know we're not gonna have exact numbers, but we keep 00:51:28
talking about a budget of 30 to 35,000,000 with mag paying 1/3 of that. 00:51:33
And so I feel like we could do a ballpark number just to say. 00:51:39
Hey, this is the likely like this is how long it'll take us to pay this off. 00:51:43
This is how much it'll take out of. 00:51:47
Tax revenue like rough numbers. I know I'm asking for generalized things, but I. 00:51:49
I think that it would be appropriate. 00:51:53
To have something that maps it out. And I think we actually already have something like that where LRB kind of produced this early 00:51:56
on, but we could pull up what if we. 00:52:00
What if we did postpone just two weeks? 00:52:05
And then you pull up LRB's study that shows. 00:52:07
Saying you were to split it or unless you can pull it up now say you were to split it 30. 00:52:11
30 million between three groups. 00:52:16
And I think we have more than that. 00:52:18
More than three groups that say you were to split at 30 million between. 00:52:19
Three groups. 00:52:23
We've already been through a bonding process where we've gone out for $9 million and we came up with a funding mechanism for how 00:52:24
we paid that and. 00:52:27
I I think. 00:52:32
When we were first approaching this, LRV reviewed that and. 00:52:33
Kind of came up with ideas and we sat with them for almost a year and kind of talked about what that looked like, and that's where 00:52:36
the presentation came, I think. 00:52:40
When we put this on in June to discuss it. 00:52:44
We've reviewed it in August. 00:52:47
And then that's how we got to this point where we reserved the money, you know? 00:52:49
Do we have that on hand or what? 00:52:53
Would you want to wait and pull that up? 00:52:55
On the 12th. 00:52:57
I think it would be helpful to pull up the most updated version. So that's that's what so we've been met with LRB. 00:52:59
Last week. 00:53:05
Gave them all of the numbers. 00:53:06
And they were plugging those into their formula so that they would be prepared for our upcoming meeting. But I'm sure that they 00:53:08
can have something preliminary for us. 00:53:11
Within two weeks. 00:53:15
OK, would that work? 00:53:16
OK, I just. 00:53:19
I just want to acknowledge Mayor. 00:53:21
Because you've been very creative in in making this happen. 00:53:23
For our city and you won't really even get to enjoy it. 00:53:27
So. 00:53:30
You know what? That's everybody that does this. The last mayor. Never. 00:53:31
Was the mayor in this building and he helps build this building. 00:53:36
So you guys will experience that as you keep serving the building for the future of your. 00:53:39
Along with those finances, can we identify the tax revenue stream? 00:53:45
I mean, I'm imagining it's the RDA. 00:53:49
And then the impact. 00:53:51
That it would have to that tax. 00:53:53
I think in our planning meeting we just. 00:53:57
Disgusting and. 00:53:58
And looked like we're going towards sales tax. I'm not sure where you're getting that RDA? 00:54:00
Assumption, but. 00:54:05
That isn't our plan. 00:54:06
So it's a sales tax? 00:54:08
That's that's, that's the expectation right now that we've been discussing with RB. 00:54:09
So as sales tax. 00:54:14
Revenue bond. 00:54:15
Doesn't have any. 00:54:17
It doesn't have any implication on residents. 00:54:18
It largely comes from whoever is using our commercial businesses. 00:54:21
And the funds generated from the sales tax there and so? 00:54:25
As far as that. 00:54:29
Property tax. 00:54:30
Type increase. 00:54:31
It is unrelated to property tax in the city. 00:54:33
RDA only has an impact on property tax. 00:54:36
Sales tax revenue generated from our commercial businesses. 00:54:41
Comes entirely. 00:54:44
In its formulaic measure. 00:54:45
We get half of it up front and then we get through. 00:54:48
The remainder of the state. 00:54:50
Does a population? 00:54:52
Assessment throughout the state and then divvies out the remaining. 00:54:54
A portion of the of the sales tax generated to each. 00:54:58
City. 00:55:01
And so this is this is where those. 00:55:02
Dollars that could be coming from. 00:55:05
I would just add with. 00:55:08
And with two things. 00:55:09
If it is sales tax. 00:55:11
1st, I like that you mentioned that where you said that the property in many cases might not even have any value because of. 00:55:13
The blight. I said that. 00:55:20
Now here. 00:55:23
That's why I think I take. 00:55:27
By representing the people. 00:55:29
Taking so much ownership. 00:55:31
And I, I don't take offense, but. 00:55:34
We have invested 100. 00:55:37
$1,000,000 in the cleanup. 00:55:40
Right. And so when Utah City goes out and says we're donating 20 million in land. 00:55:42
I go, you're donating or are we? Because we're the ones that help clean it up. 00:55:49
And same thing like when they say, hey, we're giving that land back. I go. 00:55:53
I like that gesture and it's kind. 00:55:57
To be honest with you, we're 100 million into it in cleanup too, and I kind of feel like we got to protect that. 00:56:00
Investment of. 00:56:06
Of because we're the ones that. 00:56:08
Put that. 00:56:09
That money into that. 00:56:10
But then the second thing is is. 00:56:12
I know how unpopular this is amongst my constituency. 00:56:15
And it only takes 810 votes on a referendum in four regions to stop this. 00:56:18
And I think we need to come together as a. 00:56:25
As a council. 00:56:27
And understand that. 00:56:29
Let's make the. 00:56:31
Livable even though there might not be the votes, but. 00:56:33
This was easy to stop. 00:56:36
800 signatures doesn't take a lot. 00:56:39
You know I. 00:56:42
I think this is an interesting thing because. 00:56:43
Our community could not. 00:56:46
Meaning what we are. 00:56:48
Unless we cleaned it up. 00:56:50
And we put the roads. 00:56:52
And so as these people buy the land. 00:56:54
And they invest. 00:56:56
Millions of their own dollars and their livelihoods to build and create something. 00:56:57
And we get the parks back. 00:57:02
And we get the roads back and we get the land back. 00:57:03
For the people. 00:57:06
As we invest in a cleanup. 00:57:07
So that we can actually build houses and exist here. 00:57:09
So that we can have pop dolls. 00:57:12
And so we can have restaurants and megaplexes. 00:57:14
This is something that we. 00:57:17
Invest in so that the people standing before you can come and move into our community. 00:57:19
And then enjoy those amenities and so. 00:57:23
It's not like. 00:57:25
There isn't a *** for tat. 00:57:28
There isn't a. 00:57:30
And they owe us something. This is something that we're cleaning up and we are investing. 00:57:32
And the queen of this community to make it become something. 00:57:37
That is livable and viable. 00:57:41
And invites the people. 00:57:43
That we see before us today in the community. I'm looking out at the audience. 00:57:45
And I know the people who are out here. 00:57:49
Most of them. 00:57:51
Not all of them. 00:57:52
Um are here because. 00:57:53
The land was cleaned up. 00:57:56
And the property owners. 00:57:58
Bought it and they developed and they built it. 00:58:00
And that's what's created our community. 00:58:02
Anyway, let's go ahead and continue this if that's what needs to happen. I just need a motion to continue it until the next 00:58:05
meeting, please. 00:58:08
Can I just have one more comment which is? 00:58:12
I think we can get there. 00:58:15
In the size I mean, I know I spoke with Eric about. 00:58:16
An alternative that was. 00:58:21
4 or 5 million in price. 00:58:22
You know Sean's. 00:58:25
Sean Herring that put together and said, hey, that isn't around a rate. We could get that. 00:58:27
Office space and the needs that we have. 00:58:32
And have that citizens. 00:58:35
Buy in to be able to make that happen instead of a. 00:58:37
10 million our side and. 00:58:41
22 million or whatever. 00:58:43
So I think what I'm saying is, is that. 00:58:45
I hope we use this as a council to find something that would work that it wouldn't anger. 00:58:47
You know, as my or not anger, but we could. 00:58:52
Not be as divisive and kind of get people on board with City Hall because I think we say, hey, we need the office. 00:58:55
Face and we can all agree with. 00:59:00
And we need that there. 00:59:02
But it's the Is it a big Taj Mahal the size of? 00:59:04
Or the price or cost of Orem City? Is that needed, right? 00:59:08
Yeah. And I, I think that. 00:59:12
I agree. 00:59:14
That we will get there. 00:59:15
And that we will have to make a decision. 00:59:17
That allows us to build for the future. 00:59:19
And when you mention somebody like Sean who? 00:59:21
I think submitted a plan. 00:59:24
For inside of one of our parks. 00:59:26
There is an opportunity for that. 00:59:28
I just think that the way that our community is built. 00:59:30
Our parks are really important and so that might not be how we agree. 00:59:34
On it about saving costs. 00:59:38
And I think that's important when we. 00:59:41
Mention people's ideas that are also coming to the table. 00:59:43
I think there's value in in building and being down in. 00:59:48
In our community, that's growing where we allow. 00:59:52
Other offices to grow like our. 00:59:56
Sheriff's Department here is going to grow. 00:59:58
And our fire department is going to grow, and so being able to have facilities. 01:00:01
That. 01:00:05
Make it so those. 01:00:05
Groups can grow with us. 01:00:07
I think is also key. 01:00:09
And finding that value. But I do think we can get there. I am going to close this. Marty, did you have something that I respond to 01:00:10
clarify for the public what Sean Herring's plan was? Yeah, please go ahead. 01:00:15
He wanted to. 01:00:20
The pumpkin patch. The gammon. 01:00:22
Park Property. 01:00:24
And develop that into. 01:00:25
Housing. 01:00:28
That was in his first proposal, not the last one. He ex that. 01:00:29
OK, well I don't know if I saw the most recent one. 01:00:32
Yeah, it was just a. 01:00:35
City Hall, where the old City Hall was in the same. 01:00:36
Format using the same parking space, honey. 01:00:38
But still, that's our park space and so. 01:00:40
What I've seen, I wasn't interested in. 01:00:44
And I am really. 01:00:46
I'm excited to consider the possibility of what we have in front of us because it is. 01:00:48
On land that we won't have to add to the cost of the. 01:00:54
Project be it however it came about. 01:00:58
And so. 01:01:01
I'm comfortable with. 01:01:03
Making a motion to postpone this to the next. 01:01:04
Council, Marty, can I get a second? 01:01:07
Second Second by Sarah. 01:01:11
Any discussion about that motion? 01:01:14
OK, can I have a? 01:01:16
Could we have Sean come and present at that time too, put him on the agenda? 01:01:18
Just to show you, do you have anything about this motion, about continuing it? 01:01:22
Yeah, yeah. 01:01:27
That's what I'm saying is, is to continue it, but in addition, could we? 01:01:28
Add to that motion. Did you want to put in a stipulation for another person to come while the architecture? 01:01:31
No, we're we have a meeting with. 01:01:39
Sean, tomorrow he can show us what? 01:01:41
What he has in mind, well, I met the. 01:01:43
The people seeing it. 01:01:45
There's 100 you could. 01:01:46
Show you as well. 01:01:47
And the people that. 01:01:49
Want to come see it? 01:01:50
I don't know that means to present. 01:01:51
Marty, would you like to alter your? 01:01:53
No, we can continue talking about it, but I don't want to alter my motion. I think it. 01:01:57
Doesn't have to do Marty's motion stands. 01:02:01
Sarah still seconds it. 01:02:04
All in favor. 01:02:05
Aye. 01:02:07
Any opposed? 01:02:08
All right, I think. 01:02:09
Let's see, is there anything else on that agenda? 01:02:11
No, all right, That meeting is closed. 01:02:15
Give us a couple minutes to turn over to the next meeting. 01:02:17