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OK, Mayor, should be good. 00:00:03
Yeah, all the rest. 00:00:30
Yes, it is. 00:00:37
Yeah. 00:00:39
OK, thanks. 00:00:42
All right. I just want to let everybody know that the meeting has started. Today is Wednesday, March 12th. 00:00:56
2025 the time is 504. 00:01:03
And right now we are just gathering some food and coming back and then we'll start our meeting. 00:01:06
We're kind of on a tight timeline, so we're going to start out with probably 10 minutes for each council person to just talk about 00:01:13
some of the things that. 00:01:17
We went over a high level in the budget retreat. 00:01:22
Where they kind of just talked about how they were spending and some requests from council about what the overall ultimate top 00:01:25
three goals were. And this is where we're going to talk about more of our individual priority priorities. 00:01:32
Then what we'll see are actual requests that come in from our staff and we'll start to break those down and we'll move through the 00:01:40
regular budget process that we do each year. 00:01:45
So that's where we are. 00:01:51
If you guys want to go ahead and start having discussions if you feel like you've already gotten what you need. 00:01:54
Actually, Sarah is about to pop in so. 00:02:00
Sarah, we are just going to. 00:02:04
There's some food that staff got in the. 00:02:06
Break room that you can run and grab and then we're just going to go around the table and take about. 00:02:09
10 minutes each to talk about. 00:02:14
Our priorities. 00:02:16
And then we will kind of have a wrap up for the last few minutes and then we'll go into our regular scheduled meeting. 00:02:18
So I'm going to run in there really quick. 00:02:28
I'll be very fast. 00:02:30
And then? 00:02:31
We can start and if you guys want to go ahead and start, you can do that too. 00:02:32
Actually, it might be appropriate to wait for Eric just in case he has. 00:02:37
Any commentary on? 00:02:41
What happened to the budget routine? 00:02:44
Good. 00:03:11
Oh no. 00:03:22
Yeah. 00:03:50
Go ahead and get started. Who wants to go? 00:04:12
First, Eric, do you want to? 00:04:13
Go ahead and give just a brief rundown of what we talked about with the top priorities that were mentioned, the top 4. 00:04:16
Or were there 5? 00:04:21
OK, so. 00:04:45
Just last week we held a. 00:04:47
Council budget retreat. 00:04:49
It was a great activity. We spent the time up at the Mill Creek City Hall. 00:04:52
And went over. 00:04:58
Both goals and priorities and also kind of a 10 year vision and so of the. 00:05:00
What we did as a as an activity was. 00:05:05
Help the Council. 00:05:09
Think out 10 years. 00:05:11
And in that exercise. 00:05:13
Look for the hurdles that we as a city as we grow to. 00:05:17
You know, say double the size in 10 years. 00:05:22
What hurdles might we encounter along the way? 00:05:25
And how could we? 00:05:29
Think today of what we could do to avoid those hurdles. 00:05:31
And so it was a great exercise. And then at the end of the meeting. 00:05:35
We pulled specific goals and priorities from council members, having had that exercise kind of in the back of their mind. 00:05:39
And landed on. 00:05:45
The top priorities being economic development. 00:05:47
Public safety. 00:05:50
Community engagement and communication. 00:05:51
And infrastructure and facility amenities. 00:05:54
OK, so today. 00:05:58
We wanted to kind of get any. 00:06:00
Implementation type strategies. 00:06:02
Kind of dive in just a little bit deeper to give some ideas to staff as we work towards. 00:06:05
Pulling together a tentative budget and we had a broad spectrum of infrastructure. 00:06:10
That meant all sorts of things. It was like water, roads, power, all sorts of. 00:06:15
Utilities. 00:06:20
As our overall long term goals so. 00:06:22
Let's just go around the table. 00:06:25
Umm, so we can kind of kick this off and get moving. Who's ready? 00:06:28
I'm just going to go ahead and call on you. 00:06:35
Because you're here. 00:06:36
You're not ready. 00:06:38
So what exactly? 00:06:39
I mean, I know. 00:06:43
I'll give you a briefing on. 00:06:46
Last year you guys had this really good idea to kind of get into the weeds of what you guys cared about. 00:06:47
And just take time. I know Jake had a request where he wanted to kind of do a presentation and get into the finer details of what 00:06:52
budgeting really meant and what his priorities were. 00:06:58
And last year you had this great idea, It was your idea to bring this kind of to this type of forum. 00:07:03
And so I thought, let's repeat it. 00:07:08
And let's let's keep it going. 00:07:11
And if really we come to the same discussion, then we're on the same page and we make all of the same movements and. 00:07:13
For me, I know that my top priorities remain in those categories. 00:07:20
And if we want to get into the weeds, I'm happy to negotiate or discuss them. But if you have anything you really want to like 00:07:24
touch base on right now. 00:07:27
I think that's the time to do it. 00:07:31
Is in this. 00:07:33
Sphere. 00:07:35
So. 00:07:36
We've had a lot of discussion about, not a lot of. 00:07:39
But some. 00:07:42
Discussion about. 00:07:43
Restriping third W because we could easily double the parking there with minimal expense. 00:07:45
And Morgan seemed to think that. 00:07:51
It could be accomplished in this year's budget and I think that would be really valuable for now and. 00:07:53
In the long term. 00:07:58
Oh, we're taking notes. Good. 00:08:00
So that's great one. 00:08:03
OK. 00:08:04
I was just going to say. 00:08:09
I had the opportunity to attend the skate park meeting. 00:08:11
And I was shocked at how many people. 00:08:14
Were there and excited. 00:08:18
It put our council meetings to shame. There were just so many people in the community that are. 00:08:20
Just really hoping that we can move forward on this. 00:08:25
And I think for all the Parks and Recreation programs, I think this is something that definitely has momentum. 00:08:28
And so as a council. 00:08:33
With whatever we can put towards Parks and Recreation, I hope that this would. 00:08:35
Priority in that department. 00:08:39
OK. 00:08:40
One of the things that. 00:08:42
Now that you bring up parks, that I think is really exciting as we've been prioritizing and looking at cemeteries. 00:08:44
And working with developers on it. 00:08:50
I think we should keep that in our view. I I consider that to be part of our infrastructure and our facilities that we talked 00:08:52
about in the retreat. 00:08:56
But I think that needs to be at the forefront because it's a cost. 00:09:01
And it's something that we have generations of people that are. 00:09:05
Are looking at that right now. And So what does that timeline look like for Vineyard? 00:09:09
I just wanted to set. I'm different. 00:09:16
Than most I just wanted to set a budget line on and get an appetite for. 00:09:19
Total spending. 00:09:24
Across the board of like. 00:09:26
Where are we and are you guys all? 00:09:28
Because that's kind of what I do with the. 00:09:31
Budget with my family is like. 00:09:33
This is what I meant. 00:09:36
And see, because if we're not there to cut. 00:09:38
I'm very small in this conversation, but. 00:09:43
I see that in the total overall budget we could cut between 10 and 12% of the total city budget. 00:09:46
I think there's a lot that could, but if there's no appetite for. 00:09:54
Where and how then? 00:09:57
You know, you guys can come. 00:09:59
Conversation on things you'd like to have. 00:10:01
I think that. 00:10:04
Umm, these conversations. I want to add to that because I think the conversation we're having now. 00:10:06
Are not necessarily things we want to add. 00:10:12
But things that we want to focus on. 00:10:16
There are currently things that we're discussing. 00:10:19
And I I don't think you're so different. 00:10:21
Everybody here wants to be fiscally conservative, so I think we can all get on that page with you and if you have ideas. 00:10:24
About where to cut, We are always looking for places to cut. 00:10:30
And save the people of Vineyard. 00:10:34
Their tax dollars. So if you're finding stuff, shoot us a list if you have them before you go ahead and bring them because that's 00:10:38
something that we want to hear. 00:10:42
And I think everybody. 00:10:46
In the same vein. 00:10:48
Is either cutting? 00:10:50
Or honing in on priorities to make sure. 00:10:52
That we are only spending what we need. 00:10:56
To to my husband's dismay. 00:11:00
The hill. The slide hill. 00:11:03
Was cut like 200,000 last year. 00:11:04
To go to 30. 00:11:07
So there were significant cuts. Jake, is there anything on your mind right away that you wanted to share? Like I would love to 00:11:09
hear it. 00:11:12
Yeah, and I think it's good to set the table of like. 00:11:17
When staff like the difference between a staff desire that could be added to a budget. 00:11:20
That wasn't included. I don't view that as a cut, I view that as a. 00:11:27
We didn't add something to the budget. So I'm more looking towards when I say cut, I'm looking at we actually spent and we are 00:11:31
cutting that not like. 00:11:35
Hey, they gave us all these. 00:11:40
Imaginary or desired things and we didn't include them. 00:11:41
I believe that our communications department and also. 00:11:48
HR Department. 00:11:53
I think that. 00:11:56
It's not a necessity. It's kind of an, it's a kind of a nice to have, but not really a necessity. 00:11:59
I mean, I'm going to be very flexible. I'm not. 00:12:06
I obviously don't have. 00:12:08
The votes on certain things, so I think. 00:12:10
If I'm. 00:12:12
Understanding the room. 00:12:13
That I need to be very flexible on what you guys would be willing to do it? 00:12:14
So I come on bended knee. 00:12:18
So I'd be more than willing to look at other ways to cut, but I I think their software is, I think I told you those softwares 00:12:19
before. 00:12:23
Can I answer to 1 of yours? I think I'm very open to. 00:12:27
Your creativity for cutting budgets and becoming thoughtful in communications, I would say with our goals on transparency and over 00:12:32
communication and making sure that people have as much access as possible. 00:12:39
Our staff are very overworked right now and wearing multiple hats. 00:12:46
So we would have to decide the type of service we want to provide to the residents #1. 00:12:50
We'd have to talk about how we're going to get creative, whether it's a software or something that you're talking about with. 00:12:56
Within these departments and then. 00:13:02
Really hone in on what you're looking for. 00:13:05
As far as what that what cutting those areas look like, especially with it being one of our top priorities. 00:13:07
For me. 00:13:13
Jake, what do you want me to rundown the whole list? 00:13:16
I think X Factor. 00:13:20
I think Qualtrics I think are. 00:13:22
Lobbyists, I think, are. 00:13:23
HR department could shrink down or even become. 00:13:26
A contract situation. 00:13:30
I know looking in previous past. 00:13:32
Years that saved a ton of money. 00:13:34
Outsourcing that to a consultant. 00:13:37
Especially for the city architect. I've seen a lot of cities do that. 00:13:39
I think that our department heads can take a larger role in communication and doing social media. 00:13:44
To do that. So that's kind of somewhere that I see there. 00:13:51
I I think that. 00:13:57
That's just let me walk through this. 00:14:03
I did a yellow line on everything. 00:14:06
But I also don't want to waste a lot of people's time. 00:14:09
It's like, hey, I don't find agreement on these. 00:14:13
I think the capital projects could be delayed or pushed off. Obviously, I disagree on the City Hall and timing of that. 00:14:30
I thought that we could have done that with the fire department, but the $1,000,000 could also be helped to. 00:14:38
You know, circumvent that so that we could go back to the regular tax. 00:14:45
Before which $1,000,000. 00:14:49
Well, we already spent that, but. 00:14:51
Yeah, on last year's. Yeah. So that's how you've been spent. On what? 00:14:53
On the. 00:14:57
This we already spent it on the building and the city. 00:14:58
You're talking about the architecture and the engine architecture. The design on City Hall, not on fire station. 00:15:03
I think so. Oh yeah, good clarity. 00:15:10
He did say fire station, right? I meant like. 00:15:13
That was one of my goals for last year, was to redirect that. 00:15:16
RDA money to the fire stations that we didn't have to do the increase. 00:15:19
But to clarify, that wasn't for the building the increases for the. 00:15:24
The actual operations we saved up for the building and that can't come out of capital funds. 00:15:28
Or RDA? No, the building of the City Hall could have been used by the RDA and then the. 00:15:33
General Ledger fund, the ones that we did use and save up could have been moved over. 00:15:39
We as an RDA can choose where those funds go. 00:15:44
We verified that. 00:15:47
It's in the past like we already did the tax rate increase, but. 00:15:50
I'll send out some provisions that clarify that. 00:15:54
For the Council. 00:15:57
So, well, I think we verified that already that the RDA can choose what that. 00:15:59
We verified that in June. I think there's specific provisions that we can read through and and verify it. 00:16:05
Or understand it. 00:16:11
I think. 00:16:12
Whether? 00:16:13
Jamie, we. 00:16:15
We verified that right. 00:16:16
That RDA funds can be used for infrastructure, whether it be the City Hall. 00:16:19
Or the fire station. We could have used the $1,000,000 for this for the fire station. 00:16:24
And then that money that was in general fund or capital projects could have been moved for the staffing of the fire. 00:16:29
The Ras. 00:16:36
The RDA body controls those rules. 00:16:37
I think you'll want to put that question. 00:16:40
Well, we already sent that through in June, and he'd already got back. 00:16:44
It sounds as though you're saying that RDA Capital projects funds could have been transferred to cover operations. No cover 00:16:47
station. 00:16:51
It could have been switched to for the building of the fire station. 00:16:56
Got it. 00:17:00
And then the funds the capital projects into the general fund. 00:17:03
Correct. Or kept in the general fund. 00:17:07
To avoid the tax rate increase. 00:17:12
But but I'm open to you guys. Like obviously I live there 10 to 12% that could be. 00:17:14
I agree with you on the like. 00:17:23
I didn't want to raise taxes last year either, that was. 00:17:25
It was devastating to have to do that. 00:17:29
I want my neighbors to still like me. 00:17:31
But what I was seeing is it wasn't just one year, it was. 00:17:35
We were continually going to have to increase our fire and public safety staffing. 00:17:39
So I wanted to make sure that. 00:17:44
If we were going to do it, we do it now before we get into a worse or worser. 00:17:46
Worse situation. 00:17:52
Yeah. And so I don't feel that that was us being frivolous. 00:17:53
And we were adjusting the tax rate. 00:17:58
To what it's been in the past. 00:18:00
And obviously we don't have to dive into all of this as a debate because I think we'd be wasting our time with other conversation 00:18:02
topics. You know what I don't. I don't think this is a waste because I think the real thing that you are discussing is the city 00:18:06
centre. 00:18:10
You're talking about a facility that we are positioning ourselves into and. 00:18:15
I believe Jake is saying we could have spent this money elsewhere and your conversation is relevant because you're saying. 00:18:21
You can't live off one time monies. 00:18:27
To pay for something that we could inject into operations for one year in hopes that we would have one time monies for operations 00:18:31
the next year. 00:18:35
Because inflation had risen so much and even with the small tax increase that we only took back down to 2000. 00:18:40
19 numbers. It didn't actually get us all the way there to cover our fire operations. 00:18:47
And so even if we were able to cut everything that you're saying. 00:18:53
I don't believe that would bring us to those numbers either, but. 00:18:57
When we talk about timing, and I guess this is where I'll put out my. 00:19:01
My two cents on your cutting of the city center. 00:19:05
And facilitating. 00:19:09
Motion and what we do and don't need. 00:19:12
We are. 00:19:15
In a place where we have people working in the hallway. 00:19:17
And we have people. 00:19:22
Sharing rooms. 00:19:24
And we are losing our conference room because we have to grow. We're in multiple facilities. 00:19:26
That do not have space inside of them. 00:19:33
We have had to buy. 00:19:36
Little what are those things called trailers where we were having office space that we had to use for? 00:19:38
Storage. 00:19:45
We are actually so fiscally conservative that we've been splitting ourselves apart to do this, and even now. 00:19:47
We are not building a City Hall. We're building a center that's jointly shared with other groups so that we can insert ourselves 00:19:55
into a floor. 00:19:59
And reduce the costs on the people of. 00:20:03
Still. 00:20:07
Not truly providing the needs of the city, but. 00:20:07
Still making us all fit into weird hallway spaces and things like that. And our staff have been delightful in being accepting of 00:20:12
working in hallways, which is. 00:20:17
Phenomenal. 00:20:22
But when we say, are we ready for this or do is it the time? 00:20:23
I disagree I'm I've watched our city where multiple hats and when we say we. 00:20:29
We need less employees. 00:20:35
Our ratios for. 00:20:37
Our employees to our citizens and the services that the people of Vineyard demand. 00:20:39
Are so. 00:20:45
There's an expanse between those two things. 00:20:48
And so if we want to talk about. 00:20:51
Cutting we have to talk about services and we have to talk about reducing services and that's really important. It has to be part 00:20:54
of our discussion as a council. 00:20:59
And we have to be open about that with the people of Vineyard. 00:21:04
And uh. 00:21:07
Part of that is. 00:21:07
That's our police. That's our fire. Because Vineyard has no amenities. We are not providing any exciting things. We. 00:21:10
Pay for most of our events out of sponsors and we we mostly just pay for your water, your trash, your sewer, your police, your 00:21:19
fire. 00:21:24
That's what we're paying for basic government. 00:21:30
And so. 00:21:33
Cost right now. 00:21:34
As we consider it. 00:21:36
I We have to be thoughtful and we have to be creative and. 00:21:38
Putting things off and prioritizing I'm always for, but making sure that we have the right revenue sources and not subsidizing the 00:21:42
wrong things. 00:21:46
I think that that's where I can get behind us. But saying we're not ready. 00:21:50
When we are in the state that we're in, I don't. 00:21:54
Think I can agree on that. 00:21:57
I mean, I cannot agree on that. 00:21:59
I would just. 00:22:04
Oh. 00:22:06
I would just say on a point of order, I agree that the. 00:22:07
Fund would would not have made-up for the fire department. 00:22:11
Staffing in last year's budget. 00:22:15
However, the same logic you guys or the council is currently using on we're banking on future growth of the grocery store and 00:22:18
McDonald's to be able to fund that. 00:22:23
It we could have banked that future growth on the staffing of the fire department. And so that's why I think it's troublesome is 00:22:28
because. 00:22:32
We're now going to bank on future growth for. 00:22:37
The possibilities of being able to fund that and I also so I agree with you, you'd still have a shortfall, but. 00:22:41
Now we're. 00:22:47
Going to do the staffing and the fire station. 00:22:48
To your point though, the other thing about. 00:22:52
The uh, uh. 00:22:55
City Hall, I think the debate isn't. 00:22:57
If we agree on a City Hall. 00:22:59
I think it's the size and scope. 00:23:01
Of it. 00:23:04
And I think A2 or $3,000,000 building or even taking the $1,000,000 building and buying a home. 00:23:05
Or there's actually somebody write down in the. 00:23:11
In the by the. 00:23:14
Theater. I forget the. 00:23:17
What's it called? 00:23:19
The the yard. 00:23:20
There's an open office space in the art I just right, right next to Chubby's. That could be a temporary thing. 00:23:23
I like the idea of buying a home. 00:23:28
But we're debating last year and you guys have already moved forward and I really want to talk more about. 00:23:31
This year and the appetite for. 00:23:36
Any cuts or if it is of this body to. 00:23:39
Either maintain the current growth or maintain. 00:23:44
Or is this body going to be? 00:23:47
Increasing the spend and his staff going to be adding. 00:23:49
Desired increases. I just wanted to understand kind of the lay of the land. 00:23:53
Politically, where things stand. 00:23:59
I don't think we are debating last year. I think we're debating current priorities and the city center is on the table for us. 00:24:02
As we've discussed it and we voted on it and. 00:24:08
Prioritizing that will come up in the future and so it is currently on our budget, so. 00:24:11
I think the Council has to be aware of it and if you have ideas for how to save the city costs, you bringing them forward is very 00:24:16
important. 00:24:20
A lot of the things that were submitted after and should have been submitted before I think would have been more helpful to us. 00:24:24
But I think any opportunity for those discussions just so we can understand it better. 00:24:31
Personally, for me to understand you better or to understand where you're coming from, it would always be helpful so that I can 00:24:37
make sure that I'm assessing it properly. 00:24:41
Anybody else have any other things to add? 00:24:46
Yeah, on the on the. 00:24:50
City Hall. 00:24:52
And as that as that comes up. 00:24:54
I one of the questions I have, Jake, you were saying? 00:24:56
That you thought we could get away with a temporary 2 to $3,000,000 building, is that correct? 00:25:01
Correct, if we were. I mean not a temporary. 00:25:05
You think that would be permanent? 00:25:09
I mean, if you look at the history of city halls like Provo building theirs and what the late 1970s or 80s and and then now they 00:25:10
had to tear it down 40 or 50 years later for us to plan and build something for build out. Now you've started the clock on the 00:25:16
lifespan of that building and. 00:25:22
40 or 50 years later, you're tearing it down South. I hate to build like. 00:25:28
Like an infant buying an adult pair of shoes. It's like. 00:25:31
You know, like, hey, we're not, we're not there yet to build an adult. My question is if you know how much this building cost that 00:25:35
we've already outgrown? 00:25:38
This one of when we built it originally, I went and met with Dawn Overson. 00:25:42
A little while back to understand it, I think at the time. 00:25:47
What were we, one or 2 million? 00:25:50
At the time, I mean, I don't know the answer I'm at. I'm, I'm asking just under 2 million. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm saying like the 00:25:52
cost of the dollar to build now probably 2:00 to 3:00. 00:25:57
Right. I mean, Anderson provided the property. 00:26:04
For this building. So I mean we didn't need to include that. 00:26:08
Right. And we have land from. 00:26:11
Flagship to for right? 00:26:13
For a new building. 00:26:16
My question is if this building costs just under $2,000,000? 00:26:18
20 what, eight years ago? 00:26:23
I don't think it's realistic to think we could get an adequately sized building for $3,000,000. 00:26:27
That's, I mean, unless we're talking about a steel warehouse with cubicles in it. 00:26:33
I just don't think that that's. 00:26:38
Per square foot, I don't think that's going to get us where we need to be. 00:26:40
Mean worried about? 00:26:44
11,000 square feet for staff right now across. 00:26:45
Multiple buildings. 00:26:49
And the plan that we have right now puts us at 20,000 square feet. 00:26:50
And we wouldn't even be. 00:26:55
Attempting to. 00:26:57
Use all of that 20,000 square feet. 00:26:59
So I mean, I think. 00:27:02
Could we get away with a building that is? 00:27:05
You know, 1617 thousand square feet maybe. 00:27:09
Are you saying 17,000 square foot building? I'm not sure you can get that for $3,000,000. 00:27:13
I definitely had three or four different models sent to me. 00:27:21
Shawn Herring sent one. 00:27:24
There are quite a few other people. 00:27:26
Hey. And I was just putting the round 40 employees keeping this building. 00:27:28
30 to 40 so you would still. 00:27:33
No, I'm saying we have this building. 00:27:37
Already still right? 00:27:40
So. 00:27:42
Well, I think this building as it was originally. 00:27:47
Intended would be a public safety building and you'd have police here. Which is what 1015 no 15 ish people. 00:27:49
1520 people. 00:27:58
Yeah, so. 00:28:00
And we're saving for we're building cheaply today. 00:28:04
To take the tax burden off the people today, but also for future generations, so that. 00:28:09
We're making sure that we're building. 00:28:14
In a very wise way that doesn't cost us like right now. 00:28:16
Consolidating and moving back out of all of the little spaces that were tucked away into. 00:28:21
And providing the space that we can grow into is an essential part of this, whether people feel it or not, we. 00:28:28
We will grow as a city. 00:28:34
The downtown is growing, the grocery store is coming in. Public Works will have to move into those areas. 00:28:36
Police will have to have coverage, they will have to grow into this building. 00:28:41
The facilities. 00:28:45
You have people coming and asking for facilities and recreation and things like that in the park. 00:28:46
One of the places that Sean Herring put the housing development in the. 00:28:52
City Hall and is already planned for another facility. 00:28:57
And so I whether or not you build it in the future or not, I have no idea. 00:29:01
But umm. 00:29:06
Trying to do it in a way that is fiscally conservative and. 00:29:07
Is saving us on land and growth and making sure we can grow into it appropriately are things I think we need to consider. But if 00:29:11
you have. 00:29:15
If you have those concepts that you could send over, because I don't think I saw all of the ones that you're talking about, I'd 00:29:19
love to see them. 00:29:23
Sean was welcome to come and do a presentation and part. You're right. 00:29:27
Part of his presentation was like, if you're looking for finances, he could put housing into the. 00:29:31
Robbins property the the the field, you know the park. 00:29:38
But it didn't need to be that way. It was just more of how do you financially make that happen? 00:29:42
I believe his dollar mark was 2 1/2 or 3 million. 00:29:46
And it was a good. 00:29:50
It was a good faced effort. Is is that the one that you sent in? That was the 30,000 square foot building. 00:29:51
Yeah. So there's no way we could build a 30,000 square foot building for two to three million. It's a nice thought, but. 00:29:57
That's not what the going rate is for. 00:30:04
Building in any way, shape or form, so I wonder. 00:30:06
Is there? 00:30:09
I'm just just to organize this a little bit more. I love that we're having this discussion and I think we can keep going. Did you 00:30:10
have more that we want to touch on tonight that we could come back to this or should we keep having this discussion? 00:30:16
I just want to throw available options and just clear up like. 00:30:23
The housing in the park wasn't a requirement then, the last thing was. 00:30:26
We own that property over there where the old City Hall is. There's two parking lots that are already there. They could maintain 00:30:30
the same. 00:30:34
So this the I love the Utah City wants to give us land, but we already have free land that was donated by the Robbins family. 00:30:37
For the old City Hall, and it's sitting there as well, we can keep that donation and have that park be like. 00:30:44
More green space for Utah City and maybe use that for in the future. 00:30:51
But yeah, and I'm more than happy if the Council's obliged to. 00:30:56
Have Sean or the other two people? 00:31:01
Construction wise that we're just like and and I'm with you. 00:31:03
I'm not saying that you can take all of those buildings and throw it and have all 50 people in one. 00:31:08
But I don't, I don't think in our current. 00:31:13
Growth trajectory with the amount of people that. 00:31:17
I don't want to. Like I said, I don't want to buy. 00:31:21
Buy adult shoes. 00:31:24
For when I think we're in grade school right now we're at 15,000 and we're going to be at 60. So we're about 1/4 through our 00:31:25
lifespan, so I'd say. 00:31:29
You know of total growth. 00:31:33
And I don't, I don't really think our goal should be to. 00:31:35
Build a building of total growth. I think it should be to. 00:31:39
But also I think there's two separate ideas I think you could do. 00:31:43
A good sized building of town hall at the park or I think as a temporary thing like we did at the fire station. 00:31:46
If we are. 00:31:52
10 cubicles or 20 cubicles short. 00:31:54
You know, like we did at the fire station, purchasing a particular building for $1,000,000. 00:31:57
Paying cash for it. 00:32:03
Giving us five to six years. That land will go up in three to four years. Give us some time to be able to build out into our 00:32:04
shoes. Maybe we're at. 00:32:08
2025 thousand population. 00:32:11
That house, then. 00:32:13
Appreciates to 1.5. We have a little bit of cash between. 00:32:15
You're not speaking into a microphone. 00:32:22
The city is not building any buildings for $1,000,000 right now. The city or the Vineyard Fire Station was approved for $1.7 00:32:25
million. 00:32:30
Our estimate is a $1.5 million build and we put in. 00:32:35
An extra 200,000 for. 00:32:39
Incidental costs that we expect to come up so today. 00:32:41
The cost is not 1,000,000 and so. 00:32:45
It's just the wrong number. 00:32:50
Want to be clear on that. What I would say about hold on one second, what I would say about what you were saying Jake is that. 00:32:51
Go ahead and have them e-mail those proposals in the council. We asked that those proposals be sent to us and some people actually 00:32:59
said that they would meet outside with those groups. 00:33:04
That would be really helpful. 00:33:09
I think we could put something together. 00:33:11
Because we have somebody working on those costs, we'll see what actual costs look like and so the council will be able to be in 00:33:14
tune with that. 00:33:18
As we throw out numbers for population. 00:33:23
Recently MAG on a conservative level put out 18,000 for our residents and with our. 00:33:26
What is it called? 00:33:33
What is it called when we give people their right to own the house? 00:33:35
Certificate of occupancy numbers are putting us at 22,000. 00:33:41
The difficulty with just throwing out numbers like 15,000 or 14,000 or 18,000 is when our own numbers internally for certificate 00:33:46
of occupancy are putting us closer to the 18/20/2000 range. 00:33:52
I think we need to be aware of that growth and then we additionally because it. 00:34:00
It really does affect service levels. 00:34:04
And all of this comes back to service levels. 00:34:07
Additionally, when we talk about the parks. 00:34:10
You mentioned that we have some parking lots over there. 00:34:14
One of the issues that we've been facing council is that. 00:34:17
We don't have places for people to park in our parks. 00:34:21
And if there's anything that I know about Vineyard, they really want better parking. 00:34:24
It's a discussion that we're always talking about. 00:34:29
But we are growing and we're a very young population and that comes from our children who are in sports, who are in waiting lists 00:34:32
to get into our rec programs. 00:34:36
And we will need that parking lot. 00:34:40
And we have a facility that's pegged for over there that. 00:34:43
It looks like it has our recreation facilities and other things that the community has voted on. 00:34:47
And discussed in our general plan and in our central corridor plan of. 00:34:53
Of wanting something in that park that is local. 00:34:58
And more tucked in and quiet that they can participate in. And like I said, whether or not we build it. 00:35:01
You have to pay attention to where those facilities are. 00:35:07
But when you're talking about 15,000 residents and we're not counting necessarily for all of the people that are here that. 00:35:10
Has to do with fire response. That has to do with police response. 00:35:16
And so we really need to be. 00:35:21
Making sure that we're thoughtful about those things. This is what I'm going to do for this discussion. 00:35:23
I'm just going to remind everybody that we are. 00:35:28
Getting close. 00:35:31
To the end of this discussion, and so if there's anything else we want to talk about. 00:35:32
Let me know. Otherwise we can continue having this discussion back and forth. It's not a big deal. 00:35:37
But I don't want us to lose. 00:35:42
The opportunity to talk about additional things because I think we know there's more to be brought to the table. Jake has some 00:35:45
concepts he wants to bring in that he can e-mail and have people come and schedule meetings with us. 00:35:51
And I think we're having our study done that is moving forward that we can present those numbers for clarity for the public. 00:35:57
And so I feel like we, we understand each other. 00:36:05
But do you guys want to talk about other things or do you want to? 00:36:08
OK, the one comment I would I would make just to be clear about where where I am, if you actually have a plan of OK, we could do 00:36:11
this in this space and this here's how it would grow so that we can. 00:36:17
You know, if we know that our projections are out to a certain size and that. 00:36:23
A city of that size has a staffing level that's commensurate with its size. 00:36:27
If there is a path for that growth and you have alternate plans for that, I would love to see those, yeah. 00:36:31
Awesome. I can provide that. The $1,000,000 number was the million for the RDA planning, so it should putting 1,000,000 towards. 00:36:37
The home, let's say we buy a home as a temp like those are the two options where I said hey. 00:36:46
There's a way to not see a tax rate increase. We could just. 00:36:51
Buy a home. 00:36:54
Like we did the fire department, it probably fit 15 to 20 people. 00:36:56
Give us two to three years or you could do. 00:36:59
More medium sized City Hall. 00:37:02
Like I said, like the Sean Herring thing, I just, there's a path to not have to go as big as what I'm saying. But the final thing 00:37:04
is, is I don't, I don't really want to rehash the past and I think the voters will. 00:37:10
Determine if it gets on the ballot on the referendum or not, or if they move forward but. 00:37:16
I think The thing is. 00:37:21
Is there a propensity for you guys to cut? 00:37:22
If there is, I'd love to spend time on that like. 00:37:26
I think as as us over the budget. 00:37:30
Is that we're aiming to be 5% / 10% over and then that's what we're hitting or are we? 00:37:33
Because I would like to be in the 10 to 12%. 00:37:39
Decrease, I think looking over what there is, I think there's cuts to be able to made. 00:37:41
I know they're hard, I know it's not fun cutting staff. 00:37:47
I know there's a lot of nice things, but that's kind of where I'm at, so that's why I want to hear from you guys. 00:37:50
I just want to clarify because you you keep saying that. 00:37:56
To avoid another tax rate increase. 00:37:59
So this is. 00:38:02
This is sales tax. 00:38:03
There won't be another. 00:38:04
Tax rate increase. 00:38:06
The whole the whole purpose of this building is coming from. 00:38:07
Sales tax. 00:38:11
Not to tax the citizens. 00:38:12
So we need to be clear, it's not a general obligation bond, It's not a lease revenue bond, it's a sales tax bond. 00:38:14
Do you know the difference? 00:38:20
Yeah, I do. 00:38:23
And that's the citizens money. OK. No, no, let me, let me interject. 00:38:24
We explained this last night at our meeting. 00:38:29
My small business. 00:38:32
Collected over $12,000 in sales tax. 00:38:34
Was maybe 5% of that that came from Vineyard citizens. 00:38:37
The rest of it came from. 00:38:40
Clients all over the state. 00:38:42
So, So when you say that the citizens are going to be paying for this new building, it's not true. 00:38:44
So we need to understand that that's. 00:38:49
Right. And the language that I'm using is, is whether that be an Orem resident, a PG resident or a visitor residence. 00:38:51
The second that money comes in. 00:38:58
It is our money. 00:39:00
The citizens money, right? 00:39:02
So it doesn't matter. 00:39:04
We are then. 00:39:05
No, no, no. What I'm saying is, is that. 00:39:07
Sarah said. But it's not a tax rate increase, correct? So what I'm saying is, is that to avoid? 00:39:10
A tax rate because. 00:39:15
Where we spent all of that money that we spent all of our sales tax money last year. 00:39:17
Right. So in order to. 00:39:21
Keep all of that sales tax rate increase. 00:39:24
We are going to bond on a sales tax. 00:39:27
And we're going to set aside and put them in first place, right? 00:39:30
To say, hey, the first thing we're going to pay is the sales tax bond. 00:39:33
Which means that. 00:39:36
And when I know we're baiting on. 00:39:38
Growth like hey, we are planning on the grocery store and these other things that haven't materialized, but they could. 00:39:39
And we like the. 00:39:47
Estimates and we're going low ball dollar, right? 00:39:49
At the end of the day, that is still citizens money. 00:39:51
And we're committing towards it. 00:39:54
And so because that then. 00:39:56
We could be using that for fire, police, all these other things like. 00:39:58
Cars or whatever, we, you know, all the things we do. 00:40:02
That then is pigeonholed that and set aside. 00:40:06
And they're in the 1st place for the 20 year, however. 00:40:09
Level that is. 00:40:12
And so. 00:40:14
Because of that, that puts us more of our financial home. 00:40:16
And at risk of. 00:40:19
Another tax, a property tax for others to make up because that is then. 00:40:21
Set aside that's that's how I'm saying that so a clarification that I in. 00:40:26
I want to make sure that I'm. 00:40:31
Accurate. 00:40:32
So I'm looking around the room. 00:40:33
My understanding is that we're required to have a balanced budget. 00:40:36
Which means that all that sales tax revenue that you say we spent last year. Yeah, we did. 00:40:39
But it's because we. 00:40:43
Had to. 00:40:45
Right. And so part of what we're talking about tonight is? 00:40:46
We have to spend that. So how do we want to spend it? Well, and let's be really clear. 00:40:50
We have to spend it. 00:40:55
We keep a rainy day fund that's allowed to be at a certain level. 00:40:57
And we had to. 00:41:02
Because of the level of service needed. 00:41:05
And what is level of service? 00:41:08
Which is so important to this discussion. 00:41:10
Is level of service. 00:41:13
A Recreation Center. 00:41:17
It is not in Vineyard. 00:41:18
A Recreation Center is not what's burdening our cost. 00:41:20
It is. 00:41:24
Response times. 00:41:25
It is making sure. 00:41:27
That when people call. 00:41:29
For fire and safety, there are response times. 00:41:31
It is not just that. 00:41:35
It is planning. 00:41:36
Amenities in our community. 00:41:38
That is the longevity and the quality of life of the residents of Vineyard. 00:41:40
Those are the recreation programs, the parks. 00:41:44
The soccer. The baseball teams. 00:41:48
The people that want to be here and be a part of that, that will come. 00:41:50
In the city and be a part of it. 00:41:55
It is water. 00:41:57
It is the people that take care of the water. 00:41:58
The people that take care of the snow removal. 00:42:01
The people that take care of the code enforcement. 00:42:03
The people that take care of the inspections. 00:42:06
The people that take care of the finances of the city. 00:42:08
And when the city calls out for transparency? 00:42:11
And wants us to post. 00:42:15
A lot. 00:42:17
About a lot of things. 00:42:18
No matter how much we try. 00:42:19
With our. 00:42:22
Newsletters and our social media. 00:42:24
And. 00:42:27
Press releases in our apps and everything. 00:42:30
The people of Vineyard want more communication our website. 00:42:33
Nobody can just have those things, we have to pay for them. 00:42:39
And so the people of Vineyard, if we were going to do these things and cut. 00:42:43
We all love cutting meaningfully. 00:42:48
I haven't met a single person on the City Council that doesn't want to be more conservative with their spending. 00:42:50
And this Council or the councils before? 00:42:58
If we want to do this. 00:43:00
There is no attack greater that we could do it with. 00:43:03
More efficiently than to say no, we will not be taking care of the trash on Center St. 00:43:07
On Christmas. 00:43:14
Anymore. 00:43:16
We cannot pick up the trash along the trails. 00:43:17
Of the. 00:43:21
Of the Park of the Lakeshore. 00:43:23
Because we have to pay somebody. 00:43:26
To pick up that trash. 00:43:28
Those costs the wearing the multiple hats. 00:43:31
The exchanging. 00:43:34
Picking up trash for social media, those are the conversations that we're having across the table right now. 00:43:36
And if you guys want to have them? 00:43:42
We have to have those conversations with the public. 00:43:44
One of the things that we did with the tax increase was saying after 20 years of not having taxes. 00:43:47
After inflation had increased over seven years and our spending had gone down despite. 00:43:53
Despite all of the things that we've grown into and luckily because of the growth. 00:44:00
That we were able to capture. 00:44:05
We've only had to do 1 increase and we didn't even do it to 100% of what we could have done, which would have still been small for 00:44:07
not doing a tax increase in 20 years just to recoup inflation. 00:44:13
We weren't actually able to cover. 00:44:20
What we need to as far as service goes, and because we're not able to cover it entirely, we're still using those one time monies. 00:44:23
And the people of Vineyard need to know that. 00:44:30
Because, uh. 00:44:32
We had this conversation in City Council. 00:44:33
While we love and support our fire department and we want them operationally to succeed, additionally, we want our police 00:44:36
operationally to succeed. That's what creates safety in our community. 00:44:41
And we want our water and our trash and our roads and all of the base services of of why we even exist here to continue. 00:44:47
And so those are the questions that we have as we cut if you've got a list. 00:44:56
Of everything that we could cut, I would love to see that. I know you read through them briefly. 00:45:01
But if you send them over to me. 00:45:06
I will get as creative as possible to say, is there an opportunity for us to split hat, you know, to wear more hats and split 00:45:08
hairs. 00:45:11
Or I will say, I just don't think we can do that because. 00:45:15
This person is already wearing multiple hats from my perspective and I'd be happy to share those with you guys. 00:45:20
I just want to make sure that. 00:45:29
You've made this abundantly clear, but just to put a point on it. 00:45:31
Comparing last year's budget to this year's budget and deciding that last year's budget. 00:45:36
Could use another haircut. 00:45:40
This year. 00:45:43
Needs to take into consideration the fact that our city has not stopped growing. 00:45:44
And that every year. 00:45:49
We have that incremental growth and it's not small we we issue. 00:45:51
On average 500 certificates of occupancy per per year right now. 00:45:56
And with every group of new individuals. 00:46:02
Comes an extra demand on police, an extra demand on fire and extra demand on new roads and providing that service and so. 00:46:05
Cutting from last year to this year. 00:46:12
As opposed to. 00:46:14
Growing. 00:46:16
To the needed degree. 00:46:17
And we're not asking. 00:46:19
Explode our budget. We need. We just need to be able to grow. 00:46:21
You know, one employee here for this and one new sheriff's deputy here or two new sheriff's deputy there. 00:46:25
We need to be able to make that. 00:46:32
Incremental growth as our city is growing. 00:46:34
In that same fashion, yeah. And Sarah, sorry to cut you off. I just wanted to add what you were saying because. 00:46:37
The grocery store has materialized. 00:46:43
It is going into construction right now and more businesses have come into operation. 00:46:46
And so not only are we growing, but our needs are actually changing. 00:46:52
And so we're going to diversify. 00:46:57
In what is needed for basic government operations, which I think is a. 00:47:00
A critical factor when we think about building the foundation. 00:47:05
Of where we're headed. 00:47:09
We are the. 00:47:11
Intermodal hub for transportation. 00:47:12
For northern Utah County. 00:47:14
We have a lot of state facilities that run through our community. 00:47:17
And being aware of that as we continue to grow and understanding the diverse needs and changes that come with grocery stores or 00:47:21
public safety. 00:47:27
Our fire or how you do power and water, it's very different in those intersections. 00:47:33
I just want to say as as you bring up your suggested cuts. 00:47:41
I think it would be wise to compare. 00:47:45
Maybe what other cities pay for the same services? 00:47:48
Because my understanding is that vineyards actually pretty low. 00:47:51
On on what we pay. 00:47:54
What our percentages are. So I think it would be really wise to compare. 00:47:57
Population size. 00:48:02
Yeah, all of the expenditures you mentioned, Mayor. 00:48:03
Garbage and all of that. I didn't bring up any of those in my cuts. I brought very specific tailored communications HR. 00:48:08
Umm, you know. 00:48:17
A city our size doesn't have a lobbyist or city our size. You know, I don't need to hit all of those things. I think you guys know 00:48:19
that and I don't. I don't want to go on the campaign trail. Before you do that, I want to respond to what you're saying because 00:48:24
you did actually mention that our department heads could take on social media. 00:48:29
My comment was if we are going to exchange their current duties for social media duties, we lose service opportunities. That was 00:48:35
the clarity. 00:48:39
Inside of that. 00:48:44
So even though you didn't mention it, you also mentioned a lot of, I've watched a lot of cities where obviously they're providing 00:48:45
the information over to the social media person. And then I mean, I'm seeing a lot of Tiktok videos and a lot of different things 00:48:50
that I just don't think are. 00:48:54
I think they're nice to have, I think they're fun to have. 00:48:59
But I don't think a city our size needs to be. Can I just add that I would never want to? 00:49:01
Pay our city engineer. 00:49:08
To work on social media. 00:49:10
I would never want to pay our finance director to work on social media. It's actually cost savings to pay. 00:49:11
What a social media person gets paid to do their job? 00:49:17
I you asked you want to hear what the appetite I I don't have an appetite for for firing. 00:49:21
Anyone in our HR department? 00:49:29
I also don't have an appetite for firing our social media or communications director tearing them down. 00:49:31
What do you mean the amount of time I actually have been pushing when they when our social media person left? 00:49:37
I pushed and pushed and pushed to want to get that person replaced because I've seen what it's like without a social media 00:49:44
manager. 00:49:48
Where we weren't having comments. 00:49:52
We were, we weren't. We didn't have someone to moderate all of that. 00:49:54
And now we do. We have better communication, better interaction and one of our priorities is community engagement. And so for me 00:49:58
that is a minimal cost. 00:50:03
I don't. I feel like if you look at a communications budget. 00:50:09
I think we're pretty lucky at how affordable our employees are compared to some other. 00:50:13
Cities or organizations? 00:50:19
And so specifically I wouldn't have an appetite for that. I don't know about the rest of the council. 00:50:21
The lobbyist conversation. 00:50:26
I see so many benefits into. 00:50:29
Like last year's appropriations that we were able to get and I credit that. 00:50:33
To our mayor and our lobbyists, hard work. 00:50:38
And our city manager, Sorry, I don't want to leave you out. 00:50:40
But. 00:50:43
I I see a return in investment is what I'm trying to say. I see that when we have. 00:50:44
A good HR department, then we're going to have better employee satisfaction that they're more likely to do a better job, they're 00:50:50
more likely to be happy, and we're not going to have a. 00:50:54
Employee turnover is very expensive. 00:51:00
When we have to retrain and reinvest in these employees because they're not satisfied or happy or content with the environment 00:51:02
they're in. 00:51:06
Having a good HR director helps improve that and so for me when I look at. 00:51:11
The city. 00:51:15
As a as a government business where I want to be fiscally responsible, I also want to be smart in making sure that we're 00:51:16
functioning. 00:51:21
In a positive manner where we're creating that good environment. 00:51:26
So I will say. 00:51:31
That there are other contracts that. 00:51:34
We are already in. 00:51:37
That we've discussed over and over until our faces are blue. 00:51:39
And. 00:51:42
As much as I would love to cut that spending. 00:51:44
We're already in a contract. 00:51:46
And so that. 00:51:48
Is something I definitely agree with you on, it's just. 00:51:50
Umm, not, not an option. Excuse me? 00:51:55
Appetite for cutting? 00:52:02
Because if there isn't, it's not, it's a waste of time, right? 00:52:04
I'm going to say again. 00:52:07
Everybody has an appetite for meaningful creative cutting. I'm speaking for all of you, but tell me if I'm wrong. 00:52:10
Anybody who? 00:52:16
If you brought something meaningful to the table. 00:52:18
That didn't. 00:52:21
Didn't take away from the quality of life of the people. 00:52:22
The service. 00:52:25
Demanded by the community. 00:52:27
And it was. 00:52:30
Well thought out. 00:52:32
Everybody here at this table is open to that discussion. 00:52:34
I have not heard tonight. 00:52:37
One person that said they're against cutting. 00:52:39
It's how do you want to cut and is it meaningful? 00:52:42
I would really love for Brett to have time. 00:52:46
I feel like he's. 00:52:50
Yeah, my feeling about it is. 00:52:56
I think it is very worthwhile for us to evaluate how we're spending our money. 00:53:00
I'm I actually believe that our city is understaffed. 00:53:06
Based on our size. 00:53:11
Now is our staff. 00:53:13
Appropriately allocated. 00:53:16
That I don't know. 00:53:18
So are we efficient in how we're staffing our city? That, I think, is a very worthwhile conversation. 00:53:19
But in terms of staff to provide the services. 00:53:27
That we want and to accomplish the goals that we have as a city, as council. 00:53:31
I actually believe we're understaffed. 00:53:37
Yeah, I do think it'll be it'll be good to. 00:53:39
Really dive into these as staff puts forward. 00:53:46
Their needs and requests and goals. 00:53:49
To take in these conversations into consideration. 00:53:53
So please, if you have additional things. 00:53:57
Send them to the Council. 00:54:00
Council review them. We can always come back to a situation like this, otherwise what we'll do. 00:54:02
Is we will start going into our regular budgeting process. 00:54:07
Which you will be meeting with. 00:54:12
Our staff and sitting down and going through things and you'll be able to. 00:54:14
Have conversations with our finance team and start working with. 00:54:20
Brett and. 00:54:25
Myself and Eric and. 00:54:27
Christie and probably. 00:54:29
LRB and a whole crew of people to answer any questions that you might have. So we'll start that process, but if anybody wants to 00:54:31
do this again. 00:54:35
I'm more than happy. 00:54:39
To facilitate this. 00:54:41
I just want to add it is really. 00:54:44
Delegate to talk about staffing and everything and not recognize the great people that do work for our city. 00:54:48
It's hard to kind of come in and be like. 00:54:53
Hey I I don't know about this or moving things because it's not a reflection of the individual. 00:54:55
Because they're great people and they probably work hard. It's, it's a reflection of like what? 00:55:02
What service are they and is that adequate And so I hope staff or don't take away like. 00:55:06
Oh, it's this specific person because it's not right they. 00:55:12
We have so many great individuals. 00:55:15
I also think it's tough to take that back. It's hard. 00:55:18
You know, I've been a government auctioneer for 17 years. I still do government contracts for that. 00:55:23
And. 00:55:29
It is hard to, and I mean this in the nicest way, but. 00:55:31
Department staff obviously don't ever want to cut budget because it's their budget and it's their people and it's they like and so 00:55:36
like I always. 00:55:39
I want department heads to feel like the door is open to be able to listen to him. 00:55:43
But at the same time, I'm more interested in talking with this group of like is that or is that not? 00:55:48
Because it's us making that decision of if that is, you know, a service that we need or not. 00:55:55
I mean, I know there's a difference of opinion of. 00:56:02
I believe we could run and administer this. 00:56:05
Government about 10% of the size. Like with a cut. 00:56:07
But obviously, you know, but I'm not going to get offended and I appreciate the time. 00:56:12
Exploring options. 00:56:17
All right, that brings us to the close of the meeting. I will say just on a last note, I think that. 00:56:20
That's why this forum is here, that's why we're having this discussion and that's why we go into discussions with the council and 00:56:26
the council ultimately has to make those hard decisions and the staff has always been good at respecting that side of the table. 00:56:32
Where we have to come to? 00:56:38
I love the comments here about how we have. 00:56:41
We have really been streamlined and we can always look for ways to be more efficient and find out if we are being efficient and 00:56:45
when we find that assessment. 00:56:50
I hope that we respect that assessment. 00:56:55
As we move forward and really. 00:56:58
Taking and holding two things at the same time, which I'm just going to say it again because everybody needs to understand it. 00:57:01
We. 00:57:09
Always want to cut because we all. 00:57:10
Pay property tax and taxes. 00:57:13
We also recognize the demands of the base level services that we provide. 00:57:17
And we have to be aware of them so that when the people are requesting or requiring certain things of us for their dollars to be 00:57:22
spent efficiently and transparently, that we are managing that with care. 00:57:29
And so with that. 00:57:36
We will move into the regular budget process unless I get any further requests and. 00:57:38
Will go and I'm going to give us just a small break. We'll be a little bit. 00:57:43
Late for the next meeting as we transfer. 00:57:47
Our minutes over. Thank you. 00:57:50
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OK, Mayor, should be good. 00:00:03
Yeah, all the rest. 00:00:30
Yes, it is. 00:00:37
Yeah. 00:00:39
OK, thanks. 00:00:42
All right. I just want to let everybody know that the meeting has started. Today is Wednesday, March 12th. 00:00:56
2025 the time is 504. 00:01:03
And right now we are just gathering some food and coming back and then we'll start our meeting. 00:01:06
We're kind of on a tight timeline, so we're going to start out with probably 10 minutes for each council person to just talk about 00:01:13
some of the things that. 00:01:17
We went over a high level in the budget retreat. 00:01:22
Where they kind of just talked about how they were spending and some requests from council about what the overall ultimate top 00:01:25
three goals were. And this is where we're going to talk about more of our individual priority priorities. 00:01:32
Then what we'll see are actual requests that come in from our staff and we'll start to break those down and we'll move through the 00:01:40
regular budget process that we do each year. 00:01:45
So that's where we are. 00:01:51
If you guys want to go ahead and start having discussions if you feel like you've already gotten what you need. 00:01:54
Actually, Sarah is about to pop in so. 00:02:00
Sarah, we are just going to. 00:02:04
There's some food that staff got in the. 00:02:06
Break room that you can run and grab and then we're just going to go around the table and take about. 00:02:09
10 minutes each to talk about. 00:02:14
Our priorities. 00:02:16
And then we will kind of have a wrap up for the last few minutes and then we'll go into our regular scheduled meeting. 00:02:18
So I'm going to run in there really quick. 00:02:28
I'll be very fast. 00:02:30
And then? 00:02:31
We can start and if you guys want to go ahead and start, you can do that too. 00:02:32
Actually, it might be appropriate to wait for Eric just in case he has. 00:02:37
Any commentary on? 00:02:41
What happened to the budget routine? 00:02:44
Good. 00:03:11
Oh no. 00:03:22
Yeah. 00:03:50
Go ahead and get started. Who wants to go? 00:04:12
First, Eric, do you want to? 00:04:13
Go ahead and give just a brief rundown of what we talked about with the top priorities that were mentioned, the top 4. 00:04:16
Or were there 5? 00:04:21
OK, so. 00:04:45
Just last week we held a. 00:04:47
Council budget retreat. 00:04:49
It was a great activity. We spent the time up at the Mill Creek City Hall. 00:04:52
And went over. 00:04:58
Both goals and priorities and also kind of a 10 year vision and so of the. 00:05:00
What we did as a as an activity was. 00:05:05
Help the Council. 00:05:09
Think out 10 years. 00:05:11
And in that exercise. 00:05:13
Look for the hurdles that we as a city as we grow to. 00:05:17
You know, say double the size in 10 years. 00:05:22
What hurdles might we encounter along the way? 00:05:25
And how could we? 00:05:29
Think today of what we could do to avoid those hurdles. 00:05:31
And so it was a great exercise. And then at the end of the meeting. 00:05:35
We pulled specific goals and priorities from council members, having had that exercise kind of in the back of their mind. 00:05:39
And landed on. 00:05:45
The top priorities being economic development. 00:05:47
Public safety. 00:05:50
Community engagement and communication. 00:05:51
And infrastructure and facility amenities. 00:05:54
OK, so today. 00:05:58
We wanted to kind of get any. 00:06:00
Implementation type strategies. 00:06:02
Kind of dive in just a little bit deeper to give some ideas to staff as we work towards. 00:06:05
Pulling together a tentative budget and we had a broad spectrum of infrastructure. 00:06:10
That meant all sorts of things. It was like water, roads, power, all sorts of. 00:06:15
Utilities. 00:06:20
As our overall long term goals so. 00:06:22
Let's just go around the table. 00:06:25
Umm, so we can kind of kick this off and get moving. Who's ready? 00:06:28
I'm just going to go ahead and call on you. 00:06:35
Because you're here. 00:06:36
You're not ready. 00:06:38
So what exactly? 00:06:39
I mean, I know. 00:06:43
I'll give you a briefing on. 00:06:46
Last year you guys had this really good idea to kind of get into the weeds of what you guys cared about. 00:06:47
And just take time. I know Jake had a request where he wanted to kind of do a presentation and get into the finer details of what 00:06:52
budgeting really meant and what his priorities were. 00:06:58
And last year you had this great idea, It was your idea to bring this kind of to this type of forum. 00:07:03
And so I thought, let's repeat it. 00:07:08
And let's let's keep it going. 00:07:11
And if really we come to the same discussion, then we're on the same page and we make all of the same movements and. 00:07:13
For me, I know that my top priorities remain in those categories. 00:07:20
And if we want to get into the weeds, I'm happy to negotiate or discuss them. But if you have anything you really want to like 00:07:24
touch base on right now. 00:07:27
I think that's the time to do it. 00:07:31
Is in this. 00:07:33
Sphere. 00:07:35
So. 00:07:36
We've had a lot of discussion about, not a lot of. 00:07:39
But some. 00:07:42
Discussion about. 00:07:43
Restriping third W because we could easily double the parking there with minimal expense. 00:07:45
And Morgan seemed to think that. 00:07:51
It could be accomplished in this year's budget and I think that would be really valuable for now and. 00:07:53
In the long term. 00:07:58
Oh, we're taking notes. Good. 00:08:00
So that's great one. 00:08:03
OK. 00:08:04
I was just going to say. 00:08:09
I had the opportunity to attend the skate park meeting. 00:08:11
And I was shocked at how many people. 00:08:14
Were there and excited. 00:08:18
It put our council meetings to shame. There were just so many people in the community that are. 00:08:20
Just really hoping that we can move forward on this. 00:08:25
And I think for all the Parks and Recreation programs, I think this is something that definitely has momentum. 00:08:28
And so as a council. 00:08:33
With whatever we can put towards Parks and Recreation, I hope that this would. 00:08:35
Priority in that department. 00:08:39
OK. 00:08:40
One of the things that. 00:08:42
Now that you bring up parks, that I think is really exciting as we've been prioritizing and looking at cemeteries. 00:08:44
And working with developers on it. 00:08:50
I think we should keep that in our view. I I consider that to be part of our infrastructure and our facilities that we talked 00:08:52
about in the retreat. 00:08:56
But I think that needs to be at the forefront because it's a cost. 00:09:01
And it's something that we have generations of people that are. 00:09:05
Are looking at that right now. And So what does that timeline look like for Vineyard? 00:09:09
I just wanted to set. I'm different. 00:09:16
Than most I just wanted to set a budget line on and get an appetite for. 00:09:19
Total spending. 00:09:24
Across the board of like. 00:09:26
Where are we and are you guys all? 00:09:28
Because that's kind of what I do with the. 00:09:31
Budget with my family is like. 00:09:33
This is what I meant. 00:09:36
And see, because if we're not there to cut. 00:09:38
I'm very small in this conversation, but. 00:09:43
I see that in the total overall budget we could cut between 10 and 12% of the total city budget. 00:09:46
I think there's a lot that could, but if there's no appetite for. 00:09:54
Where and how then? 00:09:57
You know, you guys can come. 00:09:59
Conversation on things you'd like to have. 00:10:01
I think that. 00:10:04
Umm, these conversations. I want to add to that because I think the conversation we're having now. 00:10:06
Are not necessarily things we want to add. 00:10:12
But things that we want to focus on. 00:10:16
There are currently things that we're discussing. 00:10:19
And I I don't think you're so different. 00:10:21
Everybody here wants to be fiscally conservative, so I think we can all get on that page with you and if you have ideas. 00:10:24
About where to cut, We are always looking for places to cut. 00:10:30
And save the people of Vineyard. 00:10:34
Their tax dollars. So if you're finding stuff, shoot us a list if you have them before you go ahead and bring them because that's 00:10:38
something that we want to hear. 00:10:42
And I think everybody. 00:10:46
In the same vein. 00:10:48
Is either cutting? 00:10:50
Or honing in on priorities to make sure. 00:10:52
That we are only spending what we need. 00:10:56
To to my husband's dismay. 00:11:00
The hill. The slide hill. 00:11:03
Was cut like 200,000 last year. 00:11:04
To go to 30. 00:11:07
So there were significant cuts. Jake, is there anything on your mind right away that you wanted to share? Like I would love to 00:11:09
hear it. 00:11:12
Yeah, and I think it's good to set the table of like. 00:11:17
When staff like the difference between a staff desire that could be added to a budget. 00:11:20
That wasn't included. I don't view that as a cut, I view that as a. 00:11:27
We didn't add something to the budget. So I'm more looking towards when I say cut, I'm looking at we actually spent and we are 00:11:31
cutting that not like. 00:11:35
Hey, they gave us all these. 00:11:40
Imaginary or desired things and we didn't include them. 00:11:41
I believe that our communications department and also. 00:11:48
HR Department. 00:11:53
I think that. 00:11:56
It's not a necessity. It's kind of an, it's a kind of a nice to have, but not really a necessity. 00:11:59
I mean, I'm going to be very flexible. I'm not. 00:12:06
I obviously don't have. 00:12:08
The votes on certain things, so I think. 00:12:10
If I'm. 00:12:12
Understanding the room. 00:12:13
That I need to be very flexible on what you guys would be willing to do it? 00:12:14
So I come on bended knee. 00:12:18
So I'd be more than willing to look at other ways to cut, but I I think their software is, I think I told you those softwares 00:12:19
before. 00:12:23
Can I answer to 1 of yours? I think I'm very open to. 00:12:27
Your creativity for cutting budgets and becoming thoughtful in communications, I would say with our goals on transparency and over 00:12:32
communication and making sure that people have as much access as possible. 00:12:39
Our staff are very overworked right now and wearing multiple hats. 00:12:46
So we would have to decide the type of service we want to provide to the residents #1. 00:12:50
We'd have to talk about how we're going to get creative, whether it's a software or something that you're talking about with. 00:12:56
Within these departments and then. 00:13:02
Really hone in on what you're looking for. 00:13:05
As far as what that what cutting those areas look like, especially with it being one of our top priorities. 00:13:07
For me. 00:13:13
Jake, what do you want me to rundown the whole list? 00:13:16
I think X Factor. 00:13:20
I think Qualtrics I think are. 00:13:22
Lobbyists, I think, are. 00:13:23
HR department could shrink down or even become. 00:13:26
A contract situation. 00:13:30
I know looking in previous past. 00:13:32
Years that saved a ton of money. 00:13:34
Outsourcing that to a consultant. 00:13:37
Especially for the city architect. I've seen a lot of cities do that. 00:13:39
I think that our department heads can take a larger role in communication and doing social media. 00:13:44
To do that. So that's kind of somewhere that I see there. 00:13:51
I I think that. 00:13:57
That's just let me walk through this. 00:14:03
I did a yellow line on everything. 00:14:06
But I also don't want to waste a lot of people's time. 00:14:09
It's like, hey, I don't find agreement on these. 00:14:13
I think the capital projects could be delayed or pushed off. Obviously, I disagree on the City Hall and timing of that. 00:14:30
I thought that we could have done that with the fire department, but the $1,000,000 could also be helped to. 00:14:38
You know, circumvent that so that we could go back to the regular tax. 00:14:45
Before which $1,000,000. 00:14:49
Well, we already spent that, but. 00:14:51
Yeah, on last year's. Yeah. So that's how you've been spent. On what? 00:14:53
On the. 00:14:57
This we already spent it on the building and the city. 00:14:58
You're talking about the architecture and the engine architecture. The design on City Hall, not on fire station. 00:15:03
I think so. Oh yeah, good clarity. 00:15:10
He did say fire station, right? I meant like. 00:15:13
That was one of my goals for last year, was to redirect that. 00:15:16
RDA money to the fire stations that we didn't have to do the increase. 00:15:19
But to clarify, that wasn't for the building the increases for the. 00:15:24
The actual operations we saved up for the building and that can't come out of capital funds. 00:15:28
Or RDA? No, the building of the City Hall could have been used by the RDA and then the. 00:15:33
General Ledger fund, the ones that we did use and save up could have been moved over. 00:15:39
We as an RDA can choose where those funds go. 00:15:44
We verified that. 00:15:47
It's in the past like we already did the tax rate increase, but. 00:15:50
I'll send out some provisions that clarify that. 00:15:54
For the Council. 00:15:57
So, well, I think we verified that already that the RDA can choose what that. 00:15:59
We verified that in June. I think there's specific provisions that we can read through and and verify it. 00:16:05
Or understand it. 00:16:11
I think. 00:16:12
Whether? 00:16:13
Jamie, we. 00:16:15
We verified that right. 00:16:16
That RDA funds can be used for infrastructure, whether it be the City Hall. 00:16:19
Or the fire station. We could have used the $1,000,000 for this for the fire station. 00:16:24
And then that money that was in general fund or capital projects could have been moved for the staffing of the fire. 00:16:29
The Ras. 00:16:36
The RDA body controls those rules. 00:16:37
I think you'll want to put that question. 00:16:40
Well, we already sent that through in June, and he'd already got back. 00:16:44
It sounds as though you're saying that RDA Capital projects funds could have been transferred to cover operations. No cover 00:16:47
station. 00:16:51
It could have been switched to for the building of the fire station. 00:16:56
Got it. 00:17:00
And then the funds the capital projects into the general fund. 00:17:03
Correct. Or kept in the general fund. 00:17:07
To avoid the tax rate increase. 00:17:12
But but I'm open to you guys. Like obviously I live there 10 to 12% that could be. 00:17:14
I agree with you on the like. 00:17:23
I didn't want to raise taxes last year either, that was. 00:17:25
It was devastating to have to do that. 00:17:29
I want my neighbors to still like me. 00:17:31
But what I was seeing is it wasn't just one year, it was. 00:17:35
We were continually going to have to increase our fire and public safety staffing. 00:17:39
So I wanted to make sure that. 00:17:44
If we were going to do it, we do it now before we get into a worse or worser. 00:17:46
Worse situation. 00:17:52
Yeah. And so I don't feel that that was us being frivolous. 00:17:53
And we were adjusting the tax rate. 00:17:58
To what it's been in the past. 00:18:00
And obviously we don't have to dive into all of this as a debate because I think we'd be wasting our time with other conversation 00:18:02
topics. You know what I don't. I don't think this is a waste because I think the real thing that you are discussing is the city 00:18:06
centre. 00:18:10
You're talking about a facility that we are positioning ourselves into and. 00:18:15
I believe Jake is saying we could have spent this money elsewhere and your conversation is relevant because you're saying. 00:18:21
You can't live off one time monies. 00:18:27
To pay for something that we could inject into operations for one year in hopes that we would have one time monies for operations 00:18:31
the next year. 00:18:35
Because inflation had risen so much and even with the small tax increase that we only took back down to 2000. 00:18:40
19 numbers. It didn't actually get us all the way there to cover our fire operations. 00:18:47
And so even if we were able to cut everything that you're saying. 00:18:53
I don't believe that would bring us to those numbers either, but. 00:18:57
When we talk about timing, and I guess this is where I'll put out my. 00:19:01
My two cents on your cutting of the city center. 00:19:05
And facilitating. 00:19:09
Motion and what we do and don't need. 00:19:12
We are. 00:19:15
In a place where we have people working in the hallway. 00:19:17
And we have people. 00:19:22
Sharing rooms. 00:19:24
And we are losing our conference room because we have to grow. We're in multiple facilities. 00:19:26
That do not have space inside of them. 00:19:33
We have had to buy. 00:19:36
Little what are those things called trailers where we were having office space that we had to use for? 00:19:38
Storage. 00:19:45
We are actually so fiscally conservative that we've been splitting ourselves apart to do this, and even now. 00:19:47
We are not building a City Hall. We're building a center that's jointly shared with other groups so that we can insert ourselves 00:19:55
into a floor. 00:19:59
And reduce the costs on the people of. 00:20:03
Still. 00:20:07
Not truly providing the needs of the city, but. 00:20:07
Still making us all fit into weird hallway spaces and things like that. And our staff have been delightful in being accepting of 00:20:12
working in hallways, which is. 00:20:17
Phenomenal. 00:20:22
But when we say, are we ready for this or do is it the time? 00:20:23
I disagree I'm I've watched our city where multiple hats and when we say we. 00:20:29
We need less employees. 00:20:35
Our ratios for. 00:20:37
Our employees to our citizens and the services that the people of Vineyard demand. 00:20:39
Are so. 00:20:45
There's an expanse between those two things. 00:20:48
And so if we want to talk about. 00:20:51
Cutting we have to talk about services and we have to talk about reducing services and that's really important. It has to be part 00:20:54
of our discussion as a council. 00:20:59
And we have to be open about that with the people of Vineyard. 00:21:04
And uh. 00:21:07
Part of that is. 00:21:07
That's our police. That's our fire. Because Vineyard has no amenities. We are not providing any exciting things. We. 00:21:10
Pay for most of our events out of sponsors and we we mostly just pay for your water, your trash, your sewer, your police, your 00:21:19
fire. 00:21:24
That's what we're paying for basic government. 00:21:30
And so. 00:21:33
Cost right now. 00:21:34
As we consider it. 00:21:36
I We have to be thoughtful and we have to be creative and. 00:21:38
Putting things off and prioritizing I'm always for, but making sure that we have the right revenue sources and not subsidizing the 00:21:42
wrong things. 00:21:46
I think that that's where I can get behind us. But saying we're not ready. 00:21:50
When we are in the state that we're in, I don't. 00:21:54
Think I can agree on that. 00:21:57
I mean, I cannot agree on that. 00:21:59
I would just. 00:22:04
Oh. 00:22:06
I would just say on a point of order, I agree that the. 00:22:07
Fund would would not have made-up for the fire department. 00:22:11
Staffing in last year's budget. 00:22:15
However, the same logic you guys or the council is currently using on we're banking on future growth of the grocery store and 00:22:18
McDonald's to be able to fund that. 00:22:23
It we could have banked that future growth on the staffing of the fire department. And so that's why I think it's troublesome is 00:22:28
because. 00:22:32
We're now going to bank on future growth for. 00:22:37
The possibilities of being able to fund that and I also so I agree with you, you'd still have a shortfall, but. 00:22:41
Now we're. 00:22:47
Going to do the staffing and the fire station. 00:22:48
To your point though, the other thing about. 00:22:52
The uh, uh. 00:22:55
City Hall, I think the debate isn't. 00:22:57
If we agree on a City Hall. 00:22:59
I think it's the size and scope. 00:23:01
Of it. 00:23:04
And I think A2 or $3,000,000 building or even taking the $1,000,000 building and buying a home. 00:23:05
Or there's actually somebody write down in the. 00:23:11
In the by the. 00:23:14
Theater. I forget the. 00:23:17
What's it called? 00:23:19
The the yard. 00:23:20
There's an open office space in the art I just right, right next to Chubby's. That could be a temporary thing. 00:23:23
I like the idea of buying a home. 00:23:28
But we're debating last year and you guys have already moved forward and I really want to talk more about. 00:23:31
This year and the appetite for. 00:23:36
Any cuts or if it is of this body to. 00:23:39
Either maintain the current growth or maintain. 00:23:44
Or is this body going to be? 00:23:47
Increasing the spend and his staff going to be adding. 00:23:49
Desired increases. I just wanted to understand kind of the lay of the land. 00:23:53
Politically, where things stand. 00:23:59
I don't think we are debating last year. I think we're debating current priorities and the city center is on the table for us. 00:24:02
As we've discussed it and we voted on it and. 00:24:08
Prioritizing that will come up in the future and so it is currently on our budget, so. 00:24:11
I think the Council has to be aware of it and if you have ideas for how to save the city costs, you bringing them forward is very 00:24:16
important. 00:24:20
A lot of the things that were submitted after and should have been submitted before I think would have been more helpful to us. 00:24:24
But I think any opportunity for those discussions just so we can understand it better. 00:24:31
Personally, for me to understand you better or to understand where you're coming from, it would always be helpful so that I can 00:24:37
make sure that I'm assessing it properly. 00:24:41
Anybody else have any other things to add? 00:24:46
Yeah, on the on the. 00:24:50
City Hall. 00:24:52
And as that as that comes up. 00:24:54
I one of the questions I have, Jake, you were saying? 00:24:56
That you thought we could get away with a temporary 2 to $3,000,000 building, is that correct? 00:25:01
Correct, if we were. I mean not a temporary. 00:25:05
You think that would be permanent? 00:25:09
I mean, if you look at the history of city halls like Provo building theirs and what the late 1970s or 80s and and then now they 00:25:10
had to tear it down 40 or 50 years later for us to plan and build something for build out. Now you've started the clock on the 00:25:16
lifespan of that building and. 00:25:22
40 or 50 years later, you're tearing it down South. I hate to build like. 00:25:28
Like an infant buying an adult pair of shoes. It's like. 00:25:31
You know, like, hey, we're not, we're not there yet to build an adult. My question is if you know how much this building cost that 00:25:35
we've already outgrown? 00:25:38
This one of when we built it originally, I went and met with Dawn Overson. 00:25:42
A little while back to understand it, I think at the time. 00:25:47
What were we, one or 2 million? 00:25:50
At the time, I mean, I don't know the answer I'm at. I'm, I'm asking just under 2 million. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm saying like the 00:25:52
cost of the dollar to build now probably 2:00 to 3:00. 00:25:57
Right. I mean, Anderson provided the property. 00:26:04
For this building. So I mean we didn't need to include that. 00:26:08
Right. And we have land from. 00:26:11
Flagship to for right? 00:26:13
For a new building. 00:26:16
My question is if this building costs just under $2,000,000? 00:26:18
20 what, eight years ago? 00:26:23
I don't think it's realistic to think we could get an adequately sized building for $3,000,000. 00:26:27
That's, I mean, unless we're talking about a steel warehouse with cubicles in it. 00:26:33
I just don't think that that's. 00:26:38
Per square foot, I don't think that's going to get us where we need to be. 00:26:40
Mean worried about? 00:26:44
11,000 square feet for staff right now across. 00:26:45
Multiple buildings. 00:26:49
And the plan that we have right now puts us at 20,000 square feet. 00:26:50
And we wouldn't even be. 00:26:55
Attempting to. 00:26:57
Use all of that 20,000 square feet. 00:26:59
So I mean, I think. 00:27:02
Could we get away with a building that is? 00:27:05
You know, 1617 thousand square feet maybe. 00:27:09
Are you saying 17,000 square foot building? I'm not sure you can get that for $3,000,000. 00:27:13
I definitely had three or four different models sent to me. 00:27:21
Shawn Herring sent one. 00:27:24
There are quite a few other people. 00:27:26
Hey. And I was just putting the round 40 employees keeping this building. 00:27:28
30 to 40 so you would still. 00:27:33
No, I'm saying we have this building. 00:27:37
Already still right? 00:27:40
So. 00:27:42
Well, I think this building as it was originally. 00:27:47
Intended would be a public safety building and you'd have police here. Which is what 1015 no 15 ish people. 00:27:49
1520 people. 00:27:58
Yeah, so. 00:28:00
And we're saving for we're building cheaply today. 00:28:04
To take the tax burden off the people today, but also for future generations, so that. 00:28:09
We're making sure that we're building. 00:28:14
In a very wise way that doesn't cost us like right now. 00:28:16
Consolidating and moving back out of all of the little spaces that were tucked away into. 00:28:21
And providing the space that we can grow into is an essential part of this, whether people feel it or not, we. 00:28:28
We will grow as a city. 00:28:34
The downtown is growing, the grocery store is coming in. Public Works will have to move into those areas. 00:28:36
Police will have to have coverage, they will have to grow into this building. 00:28:41
The facilities. 00:28:45
You have people coming and asking for facilities and recreation and things like that in the park. 00:28:46
One of the places that Sean Herring put the housing development in the. 00:28:52
City Hall and is already planned for another facility. 00:28:57
And so I whether or not you build it in the future or not, I have no idea. 00:29:01
But umm. 00:29:06
Trying to do it in a way that is fiscally conservative and. 00:29:07
Is saving us on land and growth and making sure we can grow into it appropriately are things I think we need to consider. But if 00:29:11
you have. 00:29:15
If you have those concepts that you could send over, because I don't think I saw all of the ones that you're talking about, I'd 00:29:19
love to see them. 00:29:23
Sean was welcome to come and do a presentation and part. You're right. 00:29:27
Part of his presentation was like, if you're looking for finances, he could put housing into the. 00:29:31
Robbins property the the the field, you know the park. 00:29:38
But it didn't need to be that way. It was just more of how do you financially make that happen? 00:29:42
I believe his dollar mark was 2 1/2 or 3 million. 00:29:46
And it was a good. 00:29:50
It was a good faced effort. Is is that the one that you sent in? That was the 30,000 square foot building. 00:29:51
Yeah. So there's no way we could build a 30,000 square foot building for two to three million. It's a nice thought, but. 00:29:57
That's not what the going rate is for. 00:30:04
Building in any way, shape or form, so I wonder. 00:30:06
Is there? 00:30:09
I'm just just to organize this a little bit more. I love that we're having this discussion and I think we can keep going. Did you 00:30:10
have more that we want to touch on tonight that we could come back to this or should we keep having this discussion? 00:30:16
I just want to throw available options and just clear up like. 00:30:23
The housing in the park wasn't a requirement then, the last thing was. 00:30:26
We own that property over there where the old City Hall is. There's two parking lots that are already there. They could maintain 00:30:30
the same. 00:30:34
So this the I love the Utah City wants to give us land, but we already have free land that was donated by the Robbins family. 00:30:37
For the old City Hall, and it's sitting there as well, we can keep that donation and have that park be like. 00:30:44
More green space for Utah City and maybe use that for in the future. 00:30:51
But yeah, and I'm more than happy if the Council's obliged to. 00:30:56
Have Sean or the other two people? 00:31:01
Construction wise that we're just like and and I'm with you. 00:31:03
I'm not saying that you can take all of those buildings and throw it and have all 50 people in one. 00:31:08
But I don't, I don't think in our current. 00:31:13
Growth trajectory with the amount of people that. 00:31:17
I don't want to. Like I said, I don't want to buy. 00:31:21
Buy adult shoes. 00:31:24
For when I think we're in grade school right now we're at 15,000 and we're going to be at 60. So we're about 1/4 through our 00:31:25
lifespan, so I'd say. 00:31:29
You know of total growth. 00:31:33
And I don't, I don't really think our goal should be to. 00:31:35
Build a building of total growth. I think it should be to. 00:31:39
But also I think there's two separate ideas I think you could do. 00:31:43
A good sized building of town hall at the park or I think as a temporary thing like we did at the fire station. 00:31:46
If we are. 00:31:52
10 cubicles or 20 cubicles short. 00:31:54
You know, like we did at the fire station, purchasing a particular building for $1,000,000. 00:31:57
Paying cash for it. 00:32:03
Giving us five to six years. That land will go up in three to four years. Give us some time to be able to build out into our 00:32:04
shoes. Maybe we're at. 00:32:08
2025 thousand population. 00:32:11
That house, then. 00:32:13
Appreciates to 1.5. We have a little bit of cash between. 00:32:15
You're not speaking into a microphone. 00:32:22
The city is not building any buildings for $1,000,000 right now. The city or the Vineyard Fire Station was approved for $1.7 00:32:25
million. 00:32:30
Our estimate is a $1.5 million build and we put in. 00:32:35
An extra 200,000 for. 00:32:39
Incidental costs that we expect to come up so today. 00:32:41
The cost is not 1,000,000 and so. 00:32:45
It's just the wrong number. 00:32:50
Want to be clear on that. What I would say about hold on one second, what I would say about what you were saying Jake is that. 00:32:51
Go ahead and have them e-mail those proposals in the council. We asked that those proposals be sent to us and some people actually 00:32:59
said that they would meet outside with those groups. 00:33:04
That would be really helpful. 00:33:09
I think we could put something together. 00:33:11
Because we have somebody working on those costs, we'll see what actual costs look like and so the council will be able to be in 00:33:14
tune with that. 00:33:18
As we throw out numbers for population. 00:33:23
Recently MAG on a conservative level put out 18,000 for our residents and with our. 00:33:26
What is it called? 00:33:33
What is it called when we give people their right to own the house? 00:33:35
Certificate of occupancy numbers are putting us at 22,000. 00:33:41
The difficulty with just throwing out numbers like 15,000 or 14,000 or 18,000 is when our own numbers internally for certificate 00:33:46
of occupancy are putting us closer to the 18/20/2000 range. 00:33:52
I think we need to be aware of that growth and then we additionally because it. 00:34:00
It really does affect service levels. 00:34:04
And all of this comes back to service levels. 00:34:07
Additionally, when we talk about the parks. 00:34:10
You mentioned that we have some parking lots over there. 00:34:14
One of the issues that we've been facing council is that. 00:34:17
We don't have places for people to park in our parks. 00:34:21
And if there's anything that I know about Vineyard, they really want better parking. 00:34:24
It's a discussion that we're always talking about. 00:34:29
But we are growing and we're a very young population and that comes from our children who are in sports, who are in waiting lists 00:34:32
to get into our rec programs. 00:34:36
And we will need that parking lot. 00:34:40
And we have a facility that's pegged for over there that. 00:34:43
It looks like it has our recreation facilities and other things that the community has voted on. 00:34:47
And discussed in our general plan and in our central corridor plan of. 00:34:53
Of wanting something in that park that is local. 00:34:58
And more tucked in and quiet that they can participate in. And like I said, whether or not we build it. 00:35:01
You have to pay attention to where those facilities are. 00:35:07
But when you're talking about 15,000 residents and we're not counting necessarily for all of the people that are here that. 00:35:10
Has to do with fire response. That has to do with police response. 00:35:16
And so we really need to be. 00:35:21
Making sure that we're thoughtful about those things. This is what I'm going to do for this discussion. 00:35:23
I'm just going to remind everybody that we are. 00:35:28
Getting close. 00:35:31
To the end of this discussion, and so if there's anything else we want to talk about. 00:35:32
Let me know. Otherwise we can continue having this discussion back and forth. It's not a big deal. 00:35:37
But I don't want us to lose. 00:35:42
The opportunity to talk about additional things because I think we know there's more to be brought to the table. Jake has some 00:35:45
concepts he wants to bring in that he can e-mail and have people come and schedule meetings with us. 00:35:51
And I think we're having our study done that is moving forward that we can present those numbers for clarity for the public. 00:35:57
And so I feel like we, we understand each other. 00:36:05
But do you guys want to talk about other things or do you want to? 00:36:08
OK, the one comment I would I would make just to be clear about where where I am, if you actually have a plan of OK, we could do 00:36:11
this in this space and this here's how it would grow so that we can. 00:36:17
You know, if we know that our projections are out to a certain size and that. 00:36:23
A city of that size has a staffing level that's commensurate with its size. 00:36:27
If there is a path for that growth and you have alternate plans for that, I would love to see those, yeah. 00:36:31
Awesome. I can provide that. The $1,000,000 number was the million for the RDA planning, so it should putting 1,000,000 towards. 00:36:37
The home, let's say we buy a home as a temp like those are the two options where I said hey. 00:36:46
There's a way to not see a tax rate increase. We could just. 00:36:51
Buy a home. 00:36:54
Like we did the fire department, it probably fit 15 to 20 people. 00:36:56
Give us two to three years or you could do. 00:36:59
More medium sized City Hall. 00:37:02
Like I said, like the Sean Herring thing, I just, there's a path to not have to go as big as what I'm saying. But the final thing 00:37:04
is, is I don't, I don't really want to rehash the past and I think the voters will. 00:37:10
Determine if it gets on the ballot on the referendum or not, or if they move forward but. 00:37:16
I think The thing is. 00:37:21
Is there a propensity for you guys to cut? 00:37:22
If there is, I'd love to spend time on that like. 00:37:26
I think as as us over the budget. 00:37:30
Is that we're aiming to be 5% / 10% over and then that's what we're hitting or are we? 00:37:33
Because I would like to be in the 10 to 12%. 00:37:39
Decrease, I think looking over what there is, I think there's cuts to be able to made. 00:37:41
I know they're hard, I know it's not fun cutting staff. 00:37:47
I know there's a lot of nice things, but that's kind of where I'm at, so that's why I want to hear from you guys. 00:37:50
I just want to clarify because you you keep saying that. 00:37:56
To avoid another tax rate increase. 00:37:59
So this is. 00:38:02
This is sales tax. 00:38:03
There won't be another. 00:38:04
Tax rate increase. 00:38:06
The whole the whole purpose of this building is coming from. 00:38:07
Sales tax. 00:38:11
Not to tax the citizens. 00:38:12
So we need to be clear, it's not a general obligation bond, It's not a lease revenue bond, it's a sales tax bond. 00:38:14
Do you know the difference? 00:38:20
Yeah, I do. 00:38:23
And that's the citizens money. OK. No, no, let me, let me interject. 00:38:24
We explained this last night at our meeting. 00:38:29
My small business. 00:38:32
Collected over $12,000 in sales tax. 00:38:34
Was maybe 5% of that that came from Vineyard citizens. 00:38:37
The rest of it came from. 00:38:40
Clients all over the state. 00:38:42
So, So when you say that the citizens are going to be paying for this new building, it's not true. 00:38:44
So we need to understand that that's. 00:38:49
Right. And the language that I'm using is, is whether that be an Orem resident, a PG resident or a visitor residence. 00:38:51
The second that money comes in. 00:38:58
It is our money. 00:39:00
The citizens money, right? 00:39:02
So it doesn't matter. 00:39:04
We are then. 00:39:05
No, no, no. What I'm saying is, is that. 00:39:07
Sarah said. But it's not a tax rate increase, correct? So what I'm saying is, is that to avoid? 00:39:10
A tax rate because. 00:39:15
Where we spent all of that money that we spent all of our sales tax money last year. 00:39:17
Right. So in order to. 00:39:21
Keep all of that sales tax rate increase. 00:39:24
We are going to bond on a sales tax. 00:39:27
And we're going to set aside and put them in first place, right? 00:39:30
To say, hey, the first thing we're going to pay is the sales tax bond. 00:39:33
Which means that. 00:39:36
And when I know we're baiting on. 00:39:38
Growth like hey, we are planning on the grocery store and these other things that haven't materialized, but they could. 00:39:39
And we like the. 00:39:47
Estimates and we're going low ball dollar, right? 00:39:49
At the end of the day, that is still citizens money. 00:39:51
And we're committing towards it. 00:39:54
And so because that then. 00:39:56
We could be using that for fire, police, all these other things like. 00:39:58
Cars or whatever, we, you know, all the things we do. 00:40:02
That then is pigeonholed that and set aside. 00:40:06
And they're in the 1st place for the 20 year, however. 00:40:09
Level that is. 00:40:12
And so. 00:40:14
Because of that, that puts us more of our financial home. 00:40:16
And at risk of. 00:40:19
Another tax, a property tax for others to make up because that is then. 00:40:21
Set aside that's that's how I'm saying that so a clarification that I in. 00:40:26
I want to make sure that I'm. 00:40:31
Accurate. 00:40:32
So I'm looking around the room. 00:40:33
My understanding is that we're required to have a balanced budget. 00:40:36
Which means that all that sales tax revenue that you say we spent last year. Yeah, we did. 00:40:39
But it's because we. 00:40:43
Had to. 00:40:45
Right. And so part of what we're talking about tonight is? 00:40:46
We have to spend that. So how do we want to spend it? Well, and let's be really clear. 00:40:50
We have to spend it. 00:40:55
We keep a rainy day fund that's allowed to be at a certain level. 00:40:57
And we had to. 00:41:02
Because of the level of service needed. 00:41:05
And what is level of service? 00:41:08
Which is so important to this discussion. 00:41:10
Is level of service. 00:41:13
A Recreation Center. 00:41:17
It is not in Vineyard. 00:41:18
A Recreation Center is not what's burdening our cost. 00:41:20
It is. 00:41:24
Response times. 00:41:25
It is making sure. 00:41:27
That when people call. 00:41:29
For fire and safety, there are response times. 00:41:31
It is not just that. 00:41:35
It is planning. 00:41:36
Amenities in our community. 00:41:38
That is the longevity and the quality of life of the residents of Vineyard. 00:41:40
Those are the recreation programs, the parks. 00:41:44
The soccer. The baseball teams. 00:41:48
The people that want to be here and be a part of that, that will come. 00:41:50
In the city and be a part of it. 00:41:55
It is water. 00:41:57
It is the people that take care of the water. 00:41:58
The people that take care of the snow removal. 00:42:01
The people that take care of the code enforcement. 00:42:03
The people that take care of the inspections. 00:42:06
The people that take care of the finances of the city. 00:42:08
And when the city calls out for transparency? 00:42:11
And wants us to post. 00:42:15
A lot. 00:42:17
About a lot of things. 00:42:18
No matter how much we try. 00:42:19
With our. 00:42:22
Newsletters and our social media. 00:42:24
And. 00:42:27
Press releases in our apps and everything. 00:42:30
The people of Vineyard want more communication our website. 00:42:33
Nobody can just have those things, we have to pay for them. 00:42:39
And so the people of Vineyard, if we were going to do these things and cut. 00:42:43
We all love cutting meaningfully. 00:42:48
I haven't met a single person on the City Council that doesn't want to be more conservative with their spending. 00:42:50
And this Council or the councils before? 00:42:58
If we want to do this. 00:43:00
There is no attack greater that we could do it with. 00:43:03
More efficiently than to say no, we will not be taking care of the trash on Center St. 00:43:07
On Christmas. 00:43:14
Anymore. 00:43:16
We cannot pick up the trash along the trails. 00:43:17
Of the. 00:43:21
Of the Park of the Lakeshore. 00:43:23
Because we have to pay somebody. 00:43:26
To pick up that trash. 00:43:28
Those costs the wearing the multiple hats. 00:43:31
The exchanging. 00:43:34
Picking up trash for social media, those are the conversations that we're having across the table right now. 00:43:36
And if you guys want to have them? 00:43:42
We have to have those conversations with the public. 00:43:44
One of the things that we did with the tax increase was saying after 20 years of not having taxes. 00:43:47
After inflation had increased over seven years and our spending had gone down despite. 00:43:53
Despite all of the things that we've grown into and luckily because of the growth. 00:44:00
That we were able to capture. 00:44:05
We've only had to do 1 increase and we didn't even do it to 100% of what we could have done, which would have still been small for 00:44:07
not doing a tax increase in 20 years just to recoup inflation. 00:44:13
We weren't actually able to cover. 00:44:20
What we need to as far as service goes, and because we're not able to cover it entirely, we're still using those one time monies. 00:44:23
And the people of Vineyard need to know that. 00:44:30
Because, uh. 00:44:32
We had this conversation in City Council. 00:44:33
While we love and support our fire department and we want them operationally to succeed, additionally, we want our police 00:44:36
operationally to succeed. That's what creates safety in our community. 00:44:41
And we want our water and our trash and our roads and all of the base services of of why we even exist here to continue. 00:44:47
And so those are the questions that we have as we cut if you've got a list. 00:44:56
Of everything that we could cut, I would love to see that. I know you read through them briefly. 00:45:01
But if you send them over to me. 00:45:06
I will get as creative as possible to say, is there an opportunity for us to split hat, you know, to wear more hats and split 00:45:08
hairs. 00:45:11
Or I will say, I just don't think we can do that because. 00:45:15
This person is already wearing multiple hats from my perspective and I'd be happy to share those with you guys. 00:45:20
I just want to make sure that. 00:45:29
You've made this abundantly clear, but just to put a point on it. 00:45:31
Comparing last year's budget to this year's budget and deciding that last year's budget. 00:45:36
Could use another haircut. 00:45:40
This year. 00:45:43
Needs to take into consideration the fact that our city has not stopped growing. 00:45:44
And that every year. 00:45:49
We have that incremental growth and it's not small we we issue. 00:45:51
On average 500 certificates of occupancy per per year right now. 00:45:56
And with every group of new individuals. 00:46:02
Comes an extra demand on police, an extra demand on fire and extra demand on new roads and providing that service and so. 00:46:05
Cutting from last year to this year. 00:46:12
As opposed to. 00:46:14
Growing. 00:46:16
To the needed degree. 00:46:17
And we're not asking. 00:46:19
Explode our budget. We need. We just need to be able to grow. 00:46:21
You know, one employee here for this and one new sheriff's deputy here or two new sheriff's deputy there. 00:46:25
We need to be able to make that. 00:46:32
Incremental growth as our city is growing. 00:46:34
In that same fashion, yeah. And Sarah, sorry to cut you off. I just wanted to add what you were saying because. 00:46:37
The grocery store has materialized. 00:46:43
It is going into construction right now and more businesses have come into operation. 00:46:46
And so not only are we growing, but our needs are actually changing. 00:46:52
And so we're going to diversify. 00:46:57
In what is needed for basic government operations, which I think is a. 00:47:00
A critical factor when we think about building the foundation. 00:47:05
Of where we're headed. 00:47:09
We are the. 00:47:11
Intermodal hub for transportation. 00:47:12
For northern Utah County. 00:47:14
We have a lot of state facilities that run through our community. 00:47:17
And being aware of that as we continue to grow and understanding the diverse needs and changes that come with grocery stores or 00:47:21
public safety. 00:47:27
Our fire or how you do power and water, it's very different in those intersections. 00:47:33
I just want to say as as you bring up your suggested cuts. 00:47:41
I think it would be wise to compare. 00:47:45
Maybe what other cities pay for the same services? 00:47:48
Because my understanding is that vineyards actually pretty low. 00:47:51
On on what we pay. 00:47:54
What our percentages are. So I think it would be really wise to compare. 00:47:57
Population size. 00:48:02
Yeah, all of the expenditures you mentioned, Mayor. 00:48:03
Garbage and all of that. I didn't bring up any of those in my cuts. I brought very specific tailored communications HR. 00:48:08
Umm, you know. 00:48:17
A city our size doesn't have a lobbyist or city our size. You know, I don't need to hit all of those things. I think you guys know 00:48:19
that and I don't. I don't want to go on the campaign trail. Before you do that, I want to respond to what you're saying because 00:48:24
you did actually mention that our department heads could take on social media. 00:48:29
My comment was if we are going to exchange their current duties for social media duties, we lose service opportunities. That was 00:48:35
the clarity. 00:48:39
Inside of that. 00:48:44
So even though you didn't mention it, you also mentioned a lot of, I've watched a lot of cities where obviously they're providing 00:48:45
the information over to the social media person. And then I mean, I'm seeing a lot of Tiktok videos and a lot of different things 00:48:50
that I just don't think are. 00:48:54
I think they're nice to have, I think they're fun to have. 00:48:59
But I don't think a city our size needs to be. Can I just add that I would never want to? 00:49:01
Pay our city engineer. 00:49:08
To work on social media. 00:49:10
I would never want to pay our finance director to work on social media. It's actually cost savings to pay. 00:49:11
What a social media person gets paid to do their job? 00:49:17
I you asked you want to hear what the appetite I I don't have an appetite for for firing. 00:49:21
Anyone in our HR department? 00:49:29
I also don't have an appetite for firing our social media or communications director tearing them down. 00:49:31
What do you mean the amount of time I actually have been pushing when they when our social media person left? 00:49:37
I pushed and pushed and pushed to want to get that person replaced because I've seen what it's like without a social media 00:49:44
manager. 00:49:48
Where we weren't having comments. 00:49:52
We were, we weren't. We didn't have someone to moderate all of that. 00:49:54
And now we do. We have better communication, better interaction and one of our priorities is community engagement. And so for me 00:49:58
that is a minimal cost. 00:50:03
I don't. I feel like if you look at a communications budget. 00:50:09
I think we're pretty lucky at how affordable our employees are compared to some other. 00:50:13
Cities or organizations? 00:50:19
And so specifically I wouldn't have an appetite for that. I don't know about the rest of the council. 00:50:21
The lobbyist conversation. 00:50:26
I see so many benefits into. 00:50:29
Like last year's appropriations that we were able to get and I credit that. 00:50:33
To our mayor and our lobbyists, hard work. 00:50:38
And our city manager, Sorry, I don't want to leave you out. 00:50:40
But. 00:50:43
I I see a return in investment is what I'm trying to say. I see that when we have. 00:50:44
A good HR department, then we're going to have better employee satisfaction that they're more likely to do a better job, they're 00:50:50
more likely to be happy, and we're not going to have a. 00:50:54
Employee turnover is very expensive. 00:51:00
When we have to retrain and reinvest in these employees because they're not satisfied or happy or content with the environment 00:51:02
they're in. 00:51:06
Having a good HR director helps improve that and so for me when I look at. 00:51:11
The city. 00:51:15
As a as a government business where I want to be fiscally responsible, I also want to be smart in making sure that we're 00:51:16
functioning. 00:51:21
In a positive manner where we're creating that good environment. 00:51:26
So I will say. 00:51:31
That there are other contracts that. 00:51:34
We are already in. 00:51:37
That we've discussed over and over until our faces are blue. 00:51:39
And. 00:51:42
As much as I would love to cut that spending. 00:51:44
We're already in a contract. 00:51:46
And so that. 00:51:48
Is something I definitely agree with you on, it's just. 00:51:50
Umm, not, not an option. Excuse me? 00:51:55
Appetite for cutting? 00:52:02
Because if there isn't, it's not, it's a waste of time, right? 00:52:04
I'm going to say again. 00:52:07
Everybody has an appetite for meaningful creative cutting. I'm speaking for all of you, but tell me if I'm wrong. 00:52:10
Anybody who? 00:52:16
If you brought something meaningful to the table. 00:52:18
That didn't. 00:52:21
Didn't take away from the quality of life of the people. 00:52:22
The service. 00:52:25
Demanded by the community. 00:52:27
And it was. 00:52:30
Well thought out. 00:52:32
Everybody here at this table is open to that discussion. 00:52:34
I have not heard tonight. 00:52:37
One person that said they're against cutting. 00:52:39
It's how do you want to cut and is it meaningful? 00:52:42
I would really love for Brett to have time. 00:52:46
I feel like he's. 00:52:50
Yeah, my feeling about it is. 00:52:56
I think it is very worthwhile for us to evaluate how we're spending our money. 00:53:00
I'm I actually believe that our city is understaffed. 00:53:06
Based on our size. 00:53:11
Now is our staff. 00:53:13
Appropriately allocated. 00:53:16
That I don't know. 00:53:18
So are we efficient in how we're staffing our city? That, I think, is a very worthwhile conversation. 00:53:19
But in terms of staff to provide the services. 00:53:27
That we want and to accomplish the goals that we have as a city, as council. 00:53:31
I actually believe we're understaffed. 00:53:37
Yeah, I do think it'll be it'll be good to. 00:53:39
Really dive into these as staff puts forward. 00:53:46
Their needs and requests and goals. 00:53:49
To take in these conversations into consideration. 00:53:53
So please, if you have additional things. 00:53:57
Send them to the Council. 00:54:00
Council review them. We can always come back to a situation like this, otherwise what we'll do. 00:54:02
Is we will start going into our regular budgeting process. 00:54:07
Which you will be meeting with. 00:54:12
Our staff and sitting down and going through things and you'll be able to. 00:54:14
Have conversations with our finance team and start working with. 00:54:20
Brett and. 00:54:25
Myself and Eric and. 00:54:27
Christie and probably. 00:54:29
LRB and a whole crew of people to answer any questions that you might have. So we'll start that process, but if anybody wants to 00:54:31
do this again. 00:54:35
I'm more than happy. 00:54:39
To facilitate this. 00:54:41
I just want to add it is really. 00:54:44
Delegate to talk about staffing and everything and not recognize the great people that do work for our city. 00:54:48
It's hard to kind of come in and be like. 00:54:53
Hey I I don't know about this or moving things because it's not a reflection of the individual. 00:54:55
Because they're great people and they probably work hard. It's, it's a reflection of like what? 00:55:02
What service are they and is that adequate And so I hope staff or don't take away like. 00:55:06
Oh, it's this specific person because it's not right they. 00:55:12
We have so many great individuals. 00:55:15
I also think it's tough to take that back. It's hard. 00:55:18
You know, I've been a government auctioneer for 17 years. I still do government contracts for that. 00:55:23
And. 00:55:29
It is hard to, and I mean this in the nicest way, but. 00:55:31
Department staff obviously don't ever want to cut budget because it's their budget and it's their people and it's they like and so 00:55:36
like I always. 00:55:39
I want department heads to feel like the door is open to be able to listen to him. 00:55:43
But at the same time, I'm more interested in talking with this group of like is that or is that not? 00:55:48
Because it's us making that decision of if that is, you know, a service that we need or not. 00:55:55
I mean, I know there's a difference of opinion of. 00:56:02
I believe we could run and administer this. 00:56:05
Government about 10% of the size. Like with a cut. 00:56:07
But obviously, you know, but I'm not going to get offended and I appreciate the time. 00:56:12
Exploring options. 00:56:17
All right, that brings us to the close of the meeting. I will say just on a last note, I think that. 00:56:20
That's why this forum is here, that's why we're having this discussion and that's why we go into discussions with the council and 00:56:26
the council ultimately has to make those hard decisions and the staff has always been good at respecting that side of the table. 00:56:32
Where we have to come to? 00:56:38
I love the comments here about how we have. 00:56:41
We have really been streamlined and we can always look for ways to be more efficient and find out if we are being efficient and 00:56:45
when we find that assessment. 00:56:50
I hope that we respect that assessment. 00:56:55
As we move forward and really. 00:56:58
Taking and holding two things at the same time, which I'm just going to say it again because everybody needs to understand it. 00:57:01
We. 00:57:09
Always want to cut because we all. 00:57:10
Pay property tax and taxes. 00:57:13
We also recognize the demands of the base level services that we provide. 00:57:17
And we have to be aware of them so that when the people are requesting or requiring certain things of us for their dollars to be 00:57:22
spent efficiently and transparently, that we are managing that with care. 00:57:29
And so with that. 00:57:36
We will move into the regular budget process unless I get any further requests and. 00:57:38
Will go and I'm going to give us just a small break. We'll be a little bit. 00:57:43
Late for the next meeting as we transfer. 00:57:47
Our minutes over. Thank you. 00:57:50
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