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Transcript

Event transcript
OK man, I should be good. 00:00:07
Yes. 00:00:31
Yeah. 00:00:35
You know. 00:00:36
Yes, it is. 00:00:41
Yeah. 00:00:43
OK. Thank you. 00:00:46
All right. I just want to let everybody know that the meeting has started. Today is Wednesday, March 12th. 00:01:00
2025 the time is 504. 00:01:07
And right now we are just gathering some food and coming back and then we'll start our meeting. 00:01:11
We're kind of on a tight timeline, so we're going to start out with probably 10 minutes for each council person to just talk about 00:01:17
some of the things that. 00:01:21
We went over a high level in the budget retreat. 00:01:26
Where they kind of just talked about how they were spending and some requests from council about what the overall ultimate top 00:01:29
three goals were. And this is where we're going to talk about more of our individual priority priorities. 00:01:36
Then what we'll see are actual requests that come in. 00:01:44
From our staff and we'll start to break those down and we'll move through the regular budget process that we do each year. 00:01:48
So that's where we are. 00:01:56
If you guys want to go ahead and start having discussions if you feel like you've already gotten what you need. 00:01:58
Actually, Sarah is about to pop in so. 00:02:04
Sarah, we are just going to there's some food that staff got in the. 00:02:08
Break room that you can run and grab and then we're just going to go around the table and take about. 00:02:13
10 minutes each to talk about. 00:02:18
Our priorities. 00:02:20
And then we will kind of have a wrap up for the last few minutes and then we'll go into our regular scheduled meeting. So I'm 00:02:22
going to run in there really quick. 00:02:28
I'll be very fast. 00:02:34
And then we can start. And if you guys want to go ahead and start, you can do that too. 00:02:35
Actually, it might be appropriate to wait for Eric just in case he has any commentary on. 00:02:41
What happened at the Budget? 00:02:48
Oh no. 00:03:26
All right. Let's go ahead and get started. Who wants to go first? Eric, do you want to go ahead and give just a brief rundown of 00:04:07
what we talked about with the top priorities that were mentioned, the top 4? 00:04:16
Or were there 5? 00:04:25
OK, so. 00:04:49
Just last week we held a council budget retreat. 00:04:51
It was a great activity. We spent the time up at the Mill Creek City Hall. 00:04:56
And went over. 00:05:02
Both goals and priorities and also kind of a 10 year vision and so of the. 00:05:05
What we did as a as an activity was. 00:05:09
Help the Council. 00:05:13
Think out 10 years. 00:05:15
And in that exercise. 00:05:17
Look for the hurdles that we as a city as we grow to. 00:05:21
You know, say double the size in 10 years. 00:05:26
What hurdles might we encounter along the way? 00:05:29
And how could we? 00:05:33
Think today of what we could do to avoid those hurdles. 00:05:35
And so it was a great exercise. And then at the end of the meeting. 00:05:40
We pulled specific goals and priorities from council members, having had that exercise kind of in the back of their mind. 00:05:43
And landed on. 00:05:49
The top priorities being economic development. 00:05:51
Public safety. 00:05:54
Community engagement and communication. 00:05:55
And infrastructure and facility amenities. 00:05:58
OK. So today we wanted to kind of get any. 00:06:02
Implementation type strategies. 00:06:06
Kind of dive in just a little bit deeper to give some ideas to staff as we work towards. 00:06:09
Pulling together a tentative budget, then we had a broad spectrum of infrastructure. 00:06:14
That meant all sorts of things. It was like water, roads, power, all sorts of utilities. 00:06:19
As our overall long term goals so. 00:06:26
Let's just go around the table. 00:06:29
So we can kind of kick this off and get moving. Who's ready? 00:06:32
I'm just going to go ahead and call on you. 00:06:39
Because you're here. 00:06:40
You're not ready. 00:06:42
So what exactly? 00:06:43
Exactly. 00:06:45
I mean, I know you just explained it. I'll give you a briefing on last year. You guys have this really good idea to kind of get 00:06:47
into the weeds of what you guys care about. 00:06:52
And just take time. I know Jake had a request where he wanted to kind of do a presentation and get into the finer details of what 00:06:56
budgeting really meant and what his priorities were. And last year you had this great idea. It was your idea to bring this kind of 00:07:03
to this type of forum. And so I thought, let's repeat it and let's let's keep it going. 00:07:10
And if really we come to the same discussion, then we're on the same page and we make all of the same movements and. 00:07:17
For me, I know that my top priorities remain in those categories. And if we want to get into the weeds, I'm happy to negotiate or 00:07:24
discuss them. But if you have anything you really want to like touch base on right now. 00:07:29
I think that's the time to do it. 00:07:35
Is in this. 00:07:38
Sphere so. 00:07:39
So I. 00:07:41
We've had a lot of discussion about not a lot, but some. 00:07:43
Discussion about. 00:07:47
Restriping third W because we could double the parking there with minimal expense. 00:07:49
And Morgan seemed to think that. 00:07:55
That could be accomplished in this year's budget and I think that would be really valuable for now and. 00:07:57
In the long term, oh, we're taking notes. Good, hey. 00:08:03
So that's great one. 00:08:07
OK. 00:08:08
I was just gonna say. 00:08:13
I had the opportunity to attend the State Park meeting. 00:08:15
And I was shocked at how many people. 00:08:19
Were there and excited. 00:08:22
It put our council meetings to shame. There were just so many people in the community that are that are. 00:08:25
Just really hoping that we can move forward on this. 00:08:29
And I think for all the Parks and Recreation programs, I think this is something that definitely has momentum. 00:08:32
And so as a council. 00:08:38
And with whatever we can put towards Parks and Recreation, I hope that this would be a priority in that department. OK. 00:08:39
One of the things that. 00:08:46
Now that you bring a part, but I think it's really exciting as we've been prioritizing and looking at cemeteries. 00:08:48
And working with developers on it. 00:08:54
I think we should keep that in our view. I I consider that to be part of our infrastructure and our facilities that we talked 00:08:56
about in the retreat. 00:09:00
But I think that needs to be at the forefront because it's a cost. 00:09:05
And it's something that we have generations of people that are. 00:09:10
Are looking at that right now. And So what does that timeline look like for Vineyard? 00:09:13
Support that, yeah. 00:09:18
I just wanted to say I'm different than most. I just wanted to set a budget line on and get an appetite for. 00:09:20
Total spending. 00:09:28
Across the board of like. 00:09:30
Where are we and are you guys all? 00:09:32
Because that's kind of what I do. 00:09:35
Budget with my family is like. 00:09:37
This is what I meant. 00:09:40
And and see, because if we're not there to cut then. 00:09:41
I'm very small in this conversation, but. 00:09:47
I see that in the total overall budget we could cut between 10 and 12% of the total city budget. 00:09:50
I think there's a lot that could, but if there's no appetite for. 00:09:58
Where and how and. 00:10:01
You know you guys. 00:10:03
Continue the conversation on things you'd like to add. 00:10:05
I think that. 00:10:09
Umm, these conversations. I want to add to that because I think the conversation we're having now. 00:10:10
Are not necessarily things we want to add. 00:10:17
But things that we want to focus on. 00:10:20
There are currently things that we're discussing and I don't think you're so different. Everybody here wants to be fiscally 00:10:23
conservative. So I think we can all get on that page with you and if you had ideas. 00:10:28
About where to cut, We are always looking for places to cut. 00:10:34
And save the people of Vineyard. 00:10:39
Their tax dollars. So if you're finding stuff, shoot us a list if you have them before you go ahead and bring them because that's 00:10:42
something that we want to hear. 00:10:46
And I think everybody. 00:10:50
In the same vein. 00:10:52
Is either cutting or honing in on priorities to make sure? 00:10:54
That we are only spending what we need. 00:11:00
To talk, to my husband's dismay. 00:11:04
The hill. The slide hill. 00:11:07
Was cut like 200,000 last year. They go to 30. 00:11:08
So there were significant cuts. Is there anything on your mind right away that you wanted to share like I would love to hear? 00:11:13
Yeah, and I think it's good to set the table of like. 00:11:21
When stat like the difference between a staff desire that could be added to a budget. 00:11:24
That wasn't included. I don't view that as a cut, I view that as. 00:11:31
We didn't add something to the budget. So I'm more looking forward. When I say cut, I'm looking at we actually spent and we were 00:11:35
cutting. That looks like. 00:11:39
Hey, they gave us all these. 00:11:44
Imaginary or desired include them. I believe that our communications department and also our. 00:11:46
HR department are over staff. 00:11:56
I think that. 00:12:00
It's not a necessity. It's kind of. It's a kind of nice to have, but not really a necessity. 00:12:03
I mean, I'm gonna be. 00:12:09
Well, I'm not. I obviously don't have. 00:12:11
The votes on certain things so I think if I'm. 00:12:14
Understanding the room. 00:12:17
But I need to be very flexible on what you guys would be willing to do it. So I come on bended knee. So I'd be more than willing 00:12:19
to look at other ways to cut. But I, I think there's software. I think I told you those softwares before. 00:12:25
Can I answer to 1 of yours? I think I'm very open to. 00:12:31
Your creativity for cutting budgets and becoming thoughtful in communications, I would say with our goals on transparency and over 00:12:36
communication and making sure that people have as much access as possible. 00:12:43
Our staff are very overworked right now and wearing multiple hats. 00:12:50
So, umm. 00:12:54
We would have to decide the type of service we want to provide to the residents #1 we'd have to talk about how we're going to get 00:12:55
creative, whether it's a software or something that you're talking about with. 00:13:00
Within these departments and then. 00:13:06
Really hone in on what you're looking for as far as what that what cutting those areas look like, especially with it being one of 00:13:09
our top priorities. 00:13:13
For me. 00:13:18
Jake, what do you want me to run down the whole list? 00:13:20
I think X Factor. 00:13:24
Alternates, I think, are lobbyists. 00:13:26
I think are. 00:13:29
HR department could shrink down or even become. 00:13:31
A contract situation I know looking in previous past years that saved a ton of money. 00:13:34
Outsourcing that to a consultant. 00:13:41
Especially for the city or sign. I've seen a lot of cities do that. 00:13:43
I think that our department heads can take a larger role in communication and doing social media. 00:13:48
To do that, that's kind of some ways that I see there. 00:13:55
I think that. 00:13:58
Are oh, that's, that's just let me walk through this. 00:14:03
I did a yellow line on everything. 00:14:10
But I also don't want to waste a lot of people's time if. 00:14:13
It's like, hey, I don't mind agreement on these. 00:14:17
Let's see. 00:14:28
I think the capital projects could be delayed or pushed off. Obviously, I disagree on the City Hall and the timing of that. 00:14:34
I thought that we could have done that with the fire department by the $1,000,000 could also be helped to. 00:14:43
You know, circumvent that so that we could go back to the regular tax rate as before which $1,000,000 are you averaging? Well, we 00:14:49
already sent that but. 00:14:52
Yeah, on last year's. Yeah. So that's on. On what? 00:14:57
On this we already spent it on the building and the sea hall, so that wouldn't. 00:15:01
I'm a millionaire. 00:15:05
You think you're talking about the architecture and? 00:15:07
On City Hall? I think so. Yeah. Good clarity. 00:15:13
He did say fire station, right? I meant like. 00:15:17
That was one of my goals for last year, was to redirect that. 00:15:20
RDA money to the fire station, so we didn't have to do that increase there, but but to clarify next year that wasn't for the 00:15:23
building the increases for the. 00:15:28
The actual operations we saved up for the building and that can't come out of capital funds. 00:15:32
Or RDA? No, the building of the City Hall could have been used by the RDA and then the. 00:15:37
General Ledger fund, the ones that we did use and save up could have been looked over. 00:15:44
We, as an argument, choose where those funds go. 00:15:48
We verified that. 00:15:51
But it's in the past like we already did the tax rate increase, but I'll send out some provisions that clarify that. 00:15:54
For that Council. 00:16:01
So, well, I think we verified that already that the RDA can choose what that does. 00:16:03
We verified that in June. I think there are specific provisions that we can read through and and verify it. 00:16:09
Or understand it, I think whether. 00:16:15
Just as a point of order, Jamie, we, we verified that right. 00:16:18
That RDA funds can be used for infrastructure, whether it be the City Hall. 00:16:23
Or the fire station. We could have used the $1,000,000 for this for the fire station. 00:16:29
And then that money that was in general fund or capital projects could have been moved for the staffing of the fire department. 00:16:33
The Rdas bought the RDA body controls those rules. 00:16:40
I think you'll want to put that question to Josh. 00:16:44
Well, we we already set that for in June and he already got back. 00:16:48
It it, it sounds as though you're saying that RDA Capital projects funds could have been transferred to cover operations? 00:16:51
No, no, it could have been. 00:17:00
Switch to for the building in the fire station. 00:17:01
Got it. 00:17:04
And then the funds the capital projects within the general fund. 00:17:07
Correct. Or kept in the general fund with both for youths, I believe. 00:17:11
To avoid the tax rate increase. 00:17:16
But but I'm open to you guys. Like obviously I was like 10 to 12% that could be. 00:17:18
I agree with you on the like I I didn't want to raise taxes last year that was. 00:17:25
It was devastating to have to do that. I mean, I want my neighbors to still like me, too. 00:17:33
But what I was seeing is it wasn't just one year, it was. 00:17:39
We were continually going to have to increase our fire and public safety staffing and so I wanted to make sure that. 00:17:43
If we were going to do it, we do it now before we get into a worse a worser. 00:17:51
Worse situation. 00:17:56
And so I don't feel that that was us being frivolous. 00:17:58
And we were adjusting the tax rate to what it's been in the past. 00:18:02
And obviously we don't have to dive into all of this as a debate, so we can be wasting our time with other conversation. You know 00:18:06
what I don't. I don't think this is a waste because I think the real thing that you are discussing is the city center. 00:18:12
You're talking about a facility that we are positioning ourselves into and. 00:18:19
I believe Jake is saying we could have spent this money elsewhere and your conversation is relevant because you're saying you 00:18:25
can't live off one time monies. 00:18:30
To pay for something that we could inject into operations for one year in hopes that we would have one time monies for operations 00:18:35
the next year. 00:18:39
Because inflation had risen so much and even with the small tax increase that we only took back down to 2000. 00:18:44
19 numbers. It didn't actually get us all the way there to cover our fire operations. 00:18:51
And so even if we were able to cut everything that you're saying. 00:18:57
I don't believe that would bring us to those numbers either, but. 00:19:02
When we talk about timing and I guess this is where I'll put out my my two cents on your cutting of the city center. 00:19:05
And. 00:19:13
Facilitating. 00:19:15
Motion and what we do and don't need. 00:19:16
We are in a place where we have people working in the hallway and we have people sharing rooms. 00:19:20
And we are losing our conference room because we have to grow. We're in multiple facilities. 00:19:30
That do not have space inside of them. 00:19:37
We have had to buy. 00:19:40
Little what are those things called? Trailers where we were having office space that we had to use for storage. 00:19:43
We are actually so fiscally conservative that we've been splitting ourselves apart to do this, and even now. 00:19:51
We are not building a City Hall, we're building a center that's jointly shared with other groups so that we can insert ourselves 00:19:59
into a floor and reduce the costs on the people of Vineyard. 00:20:04
Still uh. 00:20:10
Not truly providing the needs of the city. 00:20:11
But still making us all fit into weird hallway spaces and things like that. And our staff have been delightful in being accepting 00:20:15
of working in hallways, which is. 00:20:21
Phenomenal. 00:20:26
But when we say are we ready for this or do is it the time I disagree. I'm I've watched our city where multiple hats and when we 00:20:27
say we we need less employees. 00:20:34
Our ratios or our employees to our citizens and the services that the people of Vineyard demand. 00:20:41
Are so there's an expanse between those two things. 00:20:49
And so if we want to talk about. 00:20:55
Cutting we have to talk about services and we have to talk about reducing services and that's really important. It has to be part 00:20:58
of our discussion as a council. 00:21:03
And we have to be open about that with the people of Vineyard. 00:21:08
And part of that is. 00:21:11
That's our police. That's our fire. Because Vineyard has no amenities, we are not providing any exciting things. We pay for most 00:21:14
of our events out of sponsors and we we mostly just pay for your water, your trash, your sewer, your police, your fire. 00:21:24
That's that's what we're paying for basic government. 00:21:34
And so cost right now? 00:21:37
As we consider it. 00:21:41
I we have to be thoughtful. We have to be creative and putting things off and prioritizing. I'm always for, but making sure that 00:21:42
we have the right revenue sources and not subsidizing the wrong things. I think that that's where I can get behind us, but saying 00:21:48
we're not ready. 00:21:53
When we are in the states that we're in, I don't think I can agree on that. I mean, I cannot agree on that. 00:21:58
I would just. 00:22:08
I would just say on a point of order, I agree that the fund would would not have made-up for the fire department. 00:22:11
Staffing in last year's budget. 00:22:19
However, the same logic you guys are. 00:22:22
The council is currently using on We're banking on future growth of the grocery store and McDonald's to be able to fund that. 00:22:25
It we could have banked that future growth on the staffing of the fire department. And so that's why I think it's troublesome is 00:22:32
because. 00:22:36
We're now going to bank on future growth for the possibilities of being able to fund that. And I also, so I agree with you, you 00:22:41
still have a shortfall, but. 00:22:46
Now we're going to do the staffing and the fire station. 00:22:51
To your point though, the other thing about. 00:22:56
The the. 00:22:59
City Hall. I think the debate isn't if we agree on a City Hall. 00:23:01
I think it's the size and scope. 00:23:05
Of it. 00:23:08
And I think 2 or $3,000,000 building or even taking the $1,000,000 building and buying a home. 00:23:09
Or there's actually somebody right down in the in the. 00:23:15
And by the. 00:23:19
DNR three at the. 00:23:21
What's it called? 00:23:23
The yard. 00:23:24
There's an open office space in the art I just right right next to Chubby's. That could be a temporary thing. I like the idea of 00:23:27
buying a home. 00:23:31
But we're we're debating last year and you guys have already moved forward and I really want to talk more about. 00:23:35
This year and the appetite for. 00:23:40
Any cuts or if it or if it is of this body to. 00:23:43
Either maintain the current growth or maintain. 00:23:48
Or is is this body going to be? 00:23:51
Increasing the spend and his staff going to be adding their. 00:23:53
Desired increases. I just wanted to understand kind of the lay of the land. 00:23:58
Politically, where things stand. 00:24:03
I don't think we are debating last year. I think we're debating current priorities and the city center is on the table for us. 00:24:06
As we've discussed it and we voted on it and. 00:24:13
Prioritizing that will come up in the future and so it is currently on our budget, so. 00:24:15
I think the Council has to be aware of it and if you have ideas for how to save the city costs you. 00:24:20
Bringing them forward is very important. A lot of the things that were submitted after and sort of been submitted before I think 00:24:26
would have been more helpful to us. But I think any opportunity for those discussions just so we can understand it better. 00:24:32
Personally, for me to understand you better or to understand where you're coming from, it would always be helpful so that I can 00:24:39
make sure that I'm assessing it properly. Anybody else have any other? 00:24:45
Other things to add? 00:24:52
Yeah, on the on the City Hall. 00:24:54
And as that as that comes up. 00:24:58
I one of the questions I have, Jake, you're saying. 00:25:00
That you thought we could get away with a temporary 2 to $3,000,000 building is that? 00:25:05
Correct. 00:25:10
You think that would be permanent? 00:25:13
I mean, if you look at the history of city halls like Provo building theirs and what the late 1970s or 80s and and then now they 00:25:14
had to tear it down 40 or 50 years later for us to plan and build something for build out. Now you've started the clock on the 00:25:20
lifespan of that building and. 00:25:26
40 or 50 years later, you're tearing it down. So I hate to build like. 00:25:32
Like an infant buying an adult pair of shoes. It's like, you know, like, hey, we're not, we're not there yet to build an adult. My 00:25:36
question is if you know how much this building cost that we've already outgrown? 00:25:40
This one of when we built it originally, I went and met with Don Overson. 00:25:46
A little while back to understand it. 00:25:51
I think at the time. 00:25:53
Or one or 2 million? 00:25:54
At the time, I mean, I don't know the answer I meant. I meant I'm asking just under 2 million. Well, I'm saying the cost of the 00:25:56
dollar to build now probably 2:00 to 3:00. 00:26:01
Actually just under 2 million. 00:26:07
Right. I mean, Anderson provided the property. 00:26:08
For this building. So I mean we didn't need to include that. 00:26:12
Right. And we have land from. 00:26:15
Flagship to for right for a new a new building. My question is if this building cost us under $2,000,000? 00:26:18
What, eight years ago? 00:26:28
I don't think it's realistic to think we could get inadequately sized building for $3,000,000. 00:26:31
That's, I mean, unless we're talking about a steel warehouse with cubicles in it. 00:26:37
I just don't think that that's. 00:26:42
Per square foot, I don't think that's going to get us where we need to be. 00:26:44
Being worried about. 00:26:48
11,000 square feet for staff right now across. 00:26:49
Multiple buildings. 00:26:53
And the plan that we have right now puts us at 20,000 square feet. 00:26:54
And we wouldn't even be. 00:26:59
Attempting to. 00:27:01
Use all of that 20,000 square feet. 00:27:03
So. 00:27:06
I mean, I think. 00:27:07
Could we get away with a building that is? 00:27:09
You know, 1617 thousand square feet maybe. 00:27:13
Are you saying moving everyone in? 00:27:17
$1,000,000. 00:27:21
I definitely had three or four different models sent to me. Shawn Hearing sent one for quite a few other people. Hey, and I was 00:27:25
just putting around 40 employees keeping this building. 00:27:31
30 to 40 so you would still. 00:27:37
Employees just to be. 00:27:40
No, I'm saying we have this building. 00:27:41
Already I'm still right? 00:27:44
So. 00:27:46
Well, I think this building as it was originally intended would be a public safety building and you'd have police here, which is 00:27:51
what, 1015 No 15 ish people. 00:27:56
15 white people. 00:28:02
Yeah, so. 00:28:04
And we're saving for we're building cheaply today. 00:28:08
To take the tax burden off the people today, but also for future generations, so that we're making sure that we're building. 00:28:13
In a very wise way that doesn't cost us like right now. 00:28:20
Consolidating and moving back out of all of the little spaces that were tucked away into and providing the space that we can grow 00:28:25
into is an essential part of this, whether people feel it or not, we. 00:28:32
We will grow as a city. The downtown is growing. The grocery store is coming in. Public Works will have to move into those areas. 00:28:38
Police will have to have coverage, they will have to grow into this building. 00:28:45
The facilities. 00:28:49
And you have people coming in asking for facilities and recreation and things like that in the park. 00:28:51
One of the places that Sean Herring put the housing development in the city. 00:28:56
Holland is already planned for another facility. 00:29:02
And so I whether or not you build it in the future or not, I have no idea. 00:29:05
But trying to do it in a way that is fiscally conservative and. 00:29:10
Is saving us on land and growth and making sure we can grow into it appropriately are things I think we need to consider. But if 00:29:15
you have, if you have those concepts that you could send over, because I don't think I saw saw all of the ones that you're talking 00:29:20
about, I'd love to see. 00:29:25
Sean was welcome to come and do a presentation. In part, you're right. 00:29:31
Part of his presentation was like, if you're looking for finances, he could put housing into the. 00:29:35
Robbins property the the the field, you know the park. 00:29:42
But it didn't need to be that way. It was just more of how do you financially make that happen? 00:29:46
I believe his dollar mark was 2 1/2 or 3 million. 00:29:50
And it was a good, it was a good face effort. Is that the one that you sent in? That was the 30,000 square foot building. 00:29:54
So there's no way we can build a 30,000 square foot building for two to three million, OK. 00:30:02
That's not what the going rate is for. 00:30:08
Building it in any way shape or form. So I wonder is there? 00:30:10
I'm just just to organize this a little bit more. I love that we're having this discussion and I think we can keep going. Did you 00:30:14
have more that we want to touch on tonight that we could come back to this or should we keep having this discussion? 00:30:21
Available options and just clear up like. 00:30:28
The housing in the park wasn't a requirement, and the last thing was. 00:30:30
We own that property over there where the old City Hall is. There's two parking lots that are already there. They could maintain 00:30:35
the same. 00:30:38
So I love that Utah City wants to give us land, but we already have free land that was donated by the Robbins family. 00:30:41
For the old City Hall, and it's sitting there as well, keep that donation and have that park be like. 00:30:48
More green space for Utah City and maybe use that for in the future. 00:30:55
But yeah, and, and I'm more than happy if the Council is obliged to. 00:31:00
Have Sean or the other two people? 00:31:05
Construction wise that were just like and and I'm with you. 00:31:08
I'm not saying that you can take all of those buildings and throw it and have all 50 people in one. 00:31:12
But I don't, I don't think in our current. 00:31:17
Growth trajectory with the amount of people that. 00:31:22
I don't want to. Like I said, I don't want to buy. 00:31:25
Buy adult shoes. 00:31:28
For when I think we're in grade school right now we're at 15,000 and we're going to be at 60. So we're about 1/4 through our 00:31:30
lifespan, so I'd say. 00:31:33
You know of total growth. 00:31:37
And I don't, I don't really think our goal should be to. 00:31:39
Build a building of total growth out. I think it should be to. 00:31:43
But also I think there's two separate ideas I think you could do. 00:31:47
A good sized building of town hall at the park or I think is a temporary thing like we did the fire station. 00:31:50
If we are. 00:31:56
10 cubicles or 20 cubicles short. 00:31:58
You know, like we did with the fire station purchasing. 00:32:01
A particular building for $1,000,000. 00:32:04
Paying cash for it. 00:32:07
Giving us five to six years. That land will go up in three to four years. Give us some time to be able to build out into our 00:32:08
shoes. Maybe we're. 00:32:12
2025 thousand population. 00:32:15
That house and appreciates the 1.5 we have a little bit of cash between. 00:32:18
You're not speaking into a microphone. 00:32:26
The city is not building any buildings for $1,000,000 right now. The City Hall or the Vineyard Fire Station was approved for $1.7 00:32:29
million. 00:32:34
Our estimate is a $1.5 million build and we put in. 00:32:39
An extra 200,000 for. 00:32:43
Incidental cost that we expect to come up so today. 00:32:45
The cost is not 1,000,000 and. 00:32:49
It's just the wrong number. I want to be clear on that. What I would say about hold on one second, what I would say about what you 00:32:54
were saying, Jake, is that. 00:32:58
Umm, go ahead and have them e-mail those proposals in the council. We asked that those proposals be sent to us and some people 00:33:02
actually said that they would meet outside with those groups. 00:33:07
That would be really helpful. I think though, we could put something together because we have somebody working on those costs. 00:33:13
We'll see what actual costs look like and so the council will be able to be in tune with that. 00:33:20
As we throw out numbers for population. 00:33:27
Recently met on a conservative level, put out 18,000 for our residents and with our. 00:33:30
What is it called? 00:33:37
What is it called when we give people their right to own the house? 00:33:39
Certificate of occupancy numbers are putting us at 22,000. 00:33:45
The difficulty was just throwing out numbers like 15,000 or 14,000 or 18,000 is when our own numbers internally for certificate of 00:33:50
occupancy are putting us closer to the 18/20/2000 range. 00:33:57
I think we need to be aware of that growth and then we additionally because it. 00:34:04
It really does affect service levels. 00:34:08
And all of this comes back to service levels. 00:34:11
Additionally, when we talk about the parks. 00:34:14
You mentioned that we have some parking lots over there. 00:34:18
One of the issues that we've been facing council is that. 00:34:21
We don't have places for people to park in our parks. 00:34:25
And if there's anything that I know about Vineyard, they really want better parking. 00:34:28
It's a discussion that we're always talking about. 00:34:33
But we are growing and we're a very young population and that comes from our children who are in sports, who are on waiting lists 00:34:36
to get into our rock programs. 00:34:40
And we will need that parking lot. 00:34:44
And we have a facility that's pegged for over there that. 00:34:47
And it looks like it has our recreation facilities and other things that the community has voted on. 00:34:51
And discussed in our general plan and in our central corridor plan of wanting something in that part that is local. 00:34:57
And more tucked in and quiet that they can participate in. And like I said, whether or not we build it. 00:35:05
You have to pay attention to where those facilities are. But when you're talking about 15,000 residents, and we're not counting 00:35:11
necessarily for all of the people that are here, that has to do with fire response. That has to do with police response. 00:35:18
And so we really need to be. 00:35:25
Making sure that we're thoughtful about those things. This is what I'm going to do for this discussion. 00:35:27
I'm just going to remind everybody that we are. 00:35:32
Getting close. 00:35:35
To the end of this discussion, and so if there's anything else we want to talk about. 00:35:36
Let me know. Otherwise we can continue having this discussion back and forth. That's not a big deal. 00:35:41
But I don't want us to lose. 00:35:46
The opportunity to talk about additional things because I think we know there's more to be brought to the table. Jake has some 00:35:49
concepts he wants to bring in that he can e-mail and have people come and schedule meetings with us. 00:35:55
And I think we're having our study done that is moving forward that we can present those numbers for clarity for the public. And 00:36:01
so I feel like we we understand each other. But do you guys want to talk about other things or do you want to? 00:36:08
OK, the one comment I would, I would make just that to be clear about where where I am. 00:36:15
If you actually have a plan of OK, we could do this in this space and this here's how it would grow so that we can. 00:36:21
You know, if we know that our projections are out to a certain size and that. 00:36:27
The city of that size has a staffing level that's commensurate with its size. 00:36:31
If there is a path for that growth and you have alternate plans for that, I would love to see those, yeah. 00:36:36
Awesome. I can provide that. The $1,000,000 number was the million for the RDA planning. So it's just putting 1,000,000 towards 00:36:42
the home. Let's say we buy a home as a temp like those are the two options where I said hey. 00:36:48
There's a way to not see a tax rate increase. We could just. 00:36:55
Buy a home. 00:36:58
Like we did the fire department. It probably fit 15 to 20 people. Give us two to three years. Or you could do a more medium sized 00:37:00
City Hall. 00:37:04
Like I said, like the Sean Herring thing, there's a path to not have to go as big as one thing. But the final thing is, is I 00:37:09
don't, I don't really want to rehash the past, and I think the voters will. 00:37:14
Determine if if it gets on the ballot on the referendum or not or if they move forward. But I think The thing is. 00:37:20
Is there a propensity for you guys to cut? 00:37:26
If there is, I'd love to spend time on that like. 00:37:30
I think is. 00:37:34
As us over the budget. 00:37:35
Is that we're aiming to be 5% / 10% over and then that's what we're hitting or are we? Because I would like to be in the 10 to 00:37:37
12%. 00:37:41
Decrease, I think looking over what there is, I think there's cuts to be able to make made. I know they're hard. I know it's not 00:37:46
fun cutting staff. 00:37:50
I know, I know there's a lot of nice things, but that's kind of where I'm at. I just want to clarify cuz you keep saying that. 00:37:54
To avoid another tax rate increase. 00:38:03
So this is. 00:38:06
This is sales tax. 00:38:07
There won't be another. 00:38:08
Tax rate increase. 00:38:10
The whole the whole purpose of this building is coming from sales. 00:38:11
Sales tax not to tax the citizens. 00:38:15
So we need to be clear, it's not a general obligation bond, It's not a lease revenue bond, it's a sales tax bond. 00:38:18
You know the difference. 00:38:25
Yeah, I do. And that's the citizens money. And so let me let me interject. 00:38:27
We explained this last night at our meeting my small business. 00:38:33
Collected over $12,000 in sales tax. There was maybe 5% of that that came from Vineyard Citizens. 00:38:38
The rest of it came from. 00:38:45
Clients all over the state. 00:38:46
So, So when you say that the citizens are going to be paying for this new building, it's not true. 00:38:48
So we need to understand that that's. 00:38:53
Right. And, and, and the language that I'm using is, is whether that be an Orem resident, a PZ resident or a visitor residence. 00:38:55
The second that money comes in. 00:39:02
This is our money. 00:39:04
The citizens money, right? So it doesn't matter. 00:39:06
We are then. 00:39:09
No, no, no. What I'm saying is, is that Sarah said. But it's not a tax rate increase, correct? So what I'm saying is, is that to 00:39:11
avoid a tax rate because. 00:39:16
We spent all of that money, we spent all of ourselves texting last year. 00:39:21
Right. So in order to. 00:39:25
Keep all of that sales tax rate increase. 00:39:28
We are going to bond on a sales tax and we're going to set aside and put them in first place, right? 00:39:31
To say, hey, the first thing we're going to pay is the sales tax bond. 00:39:37
Which means that when I know we're bathing. 00:39:40
Growth like hey, we are planning on the grocery store and these other things that haven't materialized, but they could. 00:39:44
And we like the. 00:39:51
Estimates and we're going lowball dollar, right? 00:39:53
At the end of the day, that is still citizens money. 00:39:55
And were committing toward the. 00:39:58
And so because that then. 00:40:01
We could be using that for fire, police, all these other things like. 00:40:02
Cars or whatever, we, you know, all the things we do. 00:40:06
That then is pigeonholed that and set aside. 00:40:10
And there in the 1st place for the 20 year however level that is. 00:40:13
And so. 00:40:18
Because of that, that puts us more of a as I find our financial home and at risk of. 00:40:20
Another tax, a property tax for others to make up because that is then. 00:40:25
Set aside that's that's how I'm saying that so a clarification that I in. 00:40:30
I want to make sure that I'm accurate. 00:40:35
I'm looking around the room. 00:40:37
My understanding is that we're required to have a balanced budget. 00:40:40
Which means that all that sales tax revenue that you say we spent last year. Yeah, we did. 00:40:43
But it's because we. 00:40:47
Had to. 00:40:49
And so part of what we're talking about tonight is. 00:40:51
We have to spend that. So how do we want to spend it? Well, let's be really clear. 00:40:54
We have to spend it. 00:40:59
We keep a rainy day fund that's allowed to be at a certain level. 00:41:01
And we had to. 00:41:06
Because of the level of service needed. 00:41:09
And what is level of service? 00:41:12
Which is so important to this discussion. 00:41:15
Is level of service. 00:41:18
A Recreation Center. It is not in Vineyard. 00:41:21
A Recreation Center is not what's burdening our cost. 00:41:24
It is response times. 00:41:28
It is making sure. 00:41:31
That when people call. 00:41:33
For fire and safety, there are response times. 00:41:35
It is not just that. 00:41:39
It is planning. 00:41:40
Amenities in our community, that is the longevity and the quality of life of the residents of Vineyard. 00:41:42
Those are the recreation programs, the parks. 00:41:48
The soccer. The baseball teams. 00:41:52
The people that want to be here and be a part of that, that will come in the city and be a part of it, it is water. 00:41:55
It is the people that take care of the water. 00:42:02
The people that take care of the snow removal, the people that take care of the code enforcement, the people that take care of the 00:42:05
inspections. 00:42:08
The people that take care of the finances of the city. 00:42:12
And when the city calls out for transparency and wants us to post? 00:42:15
A lot about a lot of things. 00:42:21
No matter how much we try. 00:42:24
With our. 00:42:26
Newsletters and our social media and. 00:42:28
Press releases and our apps and everything. 00:42:34
The people of Vineyard want more communication our website. 00:42:37
Nobody can just have those things, we have to pay for them. 00:42:42
And so the people of Vineyard, if we were going to do these things and cut. 00:42:47
We all love cutting meaningfully. 00:42:52
I haven't met a single person on the City Council that doesn't want to be more conservative with their spending. 00:42:55
And this Council or the councils before? 00:43:02
If we want to do this. 00:43:04
There is no attack greater than we could do it with. 00:43:07
More efficiently than to say no, we will not be taking care of the trash on Center St. 00:43:11
On Christmas. 00:43:19
Anymore, we cannot pick up the trash along the trails. 00:43:20
Of the. 00:43:25
Of the part of the. 00:43:27
Because we have to pay somebody to pick up that trash. 00:43:30
Those costs, they're wearing the multiple hats. 00:43:35
Be exchanging, picking up trash for social media. Those are the conversations that we're having across the table right now. 00:43:38
And if you guys want to have them, we have to have those conversations with the public. One of the things that we did with the tax 00:43:46
increase was saying after 20 years of not having taxes. 00:43:52
After inflation had increased over seven years and our spending had gone down despite. 00:43:57
Despite all of the things that we've grown into and luckily because of the growth. 00:44:04
That we were able to capture. 00:44:09
And we've only had to do 1 increase and we didn't even do it to 100% of what we could have done, which would have still been small 00:44:11
for not doing a tax increase in 20 years just to recoup inflation. 00:44:17
We weren't actually able to cover. 00:44:24
What we need to as far as service goes, and because we're not able to cover it entirely, we're still using those one time monies. 00:44:27
And the people Vineyard need to know. 00:44:34
Because, umm. 00:44:36
We had this conversation in City Council. 00:44:37
While we love and support our fire department and we want them operationally to succeed, additionally we want our police 00:44:40
operationally to succeed. That's what creates safety in our community and we want our water and our trash and our roads and all of 00:44:45
the base services of. 00:44:51
Of why we even exist here to continue. 00:44:57
And so those are the questions that we have as we cut if you've got a list. 00:45:00
Of everything that we could cut, I would love to see that. I know you read from briefly. 00:45:05
But if you send them over to me. 00:45:10
I will get as creative as possible to say, is there an opportunity for us to split hat, you know, to wear more hats and split 00:45:12
hairs. 00:45:15
Or I will say, I just don't think we can do that because this person is already wearing multiple hats from my perspective, and I'd 00:45:19
be happy to share those with you guys. 00:45:23
I just want to make sure that. 00:45:33
You've made this abundantly clear, but just to put a point on it. 00:45:35
Comparing last year's budget to this year's budget and deciding that last year's budget could use another haircut. 00:45:40
This year. 00:45:47
Needs to take into consideration the fact that our city has not stopped growing. 00:45:49
And that every year. 00:45:53
We have that incremental growth and it's not small we we issue. 00:45:55
On average 500 certificates of occupancy per year right now. 00:46:01
And with every group of new individuals. 00:46:06
Comes an extra demand on police and extra demand on fire and extra demand on new roads and providing that service and so. 00:46:09
Cutting from last year to this year. 00:46:16
As opposed to. 00:46:18
Growing to the needed degree. 00:46:20
And we're not asking to explode our budget. We need, we just need to be able to grow. 00:46:23
You know, one employee here for this and one new sheriff's deputy here or two new sheriff's deputy there. 00:46:29
We need to be able to make that incremental growth as our city is growing. 00:46:36
In that same fashion. 00:46:41
Yeah, and that's Sarah. Sorry to cut you off. I just wanted to add what you were saying because the grocery store has 00:46:42
materialized. 00:46:46
It is going into construction right now and more businesses have come into operation. 00:46:50
And so not only are we growing, but our needs are actually changing. 00:46:56
And so we're going to diversify. 00:47:02
And what is needed for basic government operations, which I think is a critical factor when we think about building the 00:47:04
foundation. 00:47:08
Of where we're headed, we are the. 00:47:13
Intermodal hub for transportation. 00:47:16
For northern Utah County. 00:47:19
We have a lot of state facilities that run through our community. 00:47:21
And being aware of that as we continue to grow and understanding the diverse needs and changes that come with grocery stores or 00:47:25
public safety. 00:47:31
Our fire or how you do power and water, it's very different in those intersections. 00:47:37
I just want to say as as you bring up your suggested cut. 00:47:45
I think it would be wise to compare. 00:47:49
Maybe what other cities pay for the same services? 00:47:52
Because my understanding is that venue is actually pretty low. 00:47:55
On on what we pay and. 00:47:58
What our percentages are. So I think it would be really wise to compare. 00:48:01
Population size. 00:48:06
Yeah, All of the expenditures you mentioned there, garbage and all of that. I didn't bring up any of those in my cuts. I I brought 00:48:07
very specific tailored communications HR. 00:48:13
Umm, you know. 00:48:20
A city our size doesn't have a lobbyist, a city our size, you know, I don't need to re hit all of those things. I think you guys 00:48:23
know that and I don't. I don't want to go on the campaign. Well, before you do that, I want to respond to what you're saying 00:48:28
because you did actually mention that our department heads could take on social media. 00:48:33
My comment was if we are going to exchange their current duties for social media duties, we lose service opportunities. That was 00:48:39
the clarity. 00:48:43
Inside of that. So even though you didn't mention it, you also mentioned I've watched a lot of cities where obviously they're 00:48:48
providing the information over to the social media person. And I mean, I've seen a lot of Tiktok videos and a lot of different 00:48:53
things that I just don't think are. 00:48:58
I think they're nice to have, I think they're fun to have. 00:49:03
But I don't think that's to be our size needs to be. 00:49:05
Can I just add that I would never want to? 00:49:08
Hey our city engineer to work on social media. 00:49:12
I would never want to pay our finance director to work on social media. It's actually a cost savings to pay. 00:49:15
What a social media person gets paid to do their job? 00:49:21
I yes, you want to hear the appetite? 00:49:26
I don't have an appetite for for firing. 00:49:30
Anyone in our HR department? 00:49:33
I also don't have an appetite for firing our social media or communications director tearing them down. 00:49:35
The amount of time I actually have been pushing when they when our social media person left. 00:49:41
I pressed and pushed and pushed to want to get that personal place because I've seen what it's like without a social media 00:49:48
manager. 00:49:52
Where we weren't having comments. 00:49:56
We were, we weren't. We didn't have someone to moderate all of that. 00:49:58
And now we do. We have better communication, better interaction, and one of our priorities. 00:50:02
Is community engagement and so for me that is a minimal cost. 00:50:07
I don't. I feel like if you look at a communications budget. 00:50:13
I think we're pretty lucky at how affordable our employees are compared to some other. 00:50:17
Cities or organizations, and so specifically I wouldn't have an appetite for that. I don't know about the rest of the council. 00:50:23
The lobbyists conversation. 00:50:30
I see so many benefits into like. 00:50:33
Last year's appropriations that we were able to get, and I credit that to our mayor and our lobbyists. Hard work. 00:50:38
And our city manager, sorry, don't want to leave you out. 00:50:44
But umm. 00:50:47
I I see a return in investment is what I'm trying to say. I see that when we have. 00:50:48
A good HR department, then we're going to have better employee satisfaction that they're more likely to do a better job, they're 00:50:54
more likely to be happy and we're not going to have. 00:50:58
Employee turnover is very expensive. 00:51:04
When we have to retrain and reinvest in these employees because they're not satisfied or happier content with the environment 00:51:06
then. 00:51:10
Having a good HR director helps improve that and so for me when I look at. 00:51:15
The city. 00:51:19
As a government business where I want to be fiscally responsible, I also want to be smart in making sure that we're functioning in 00:51:21
a positive manner where we're creating that good environment. 00:51:28
So I will say. 00:51:35
That there are other contracts that we are already in. 00:51:38
That we discuss over and over till our faces are blue. 00:51:43
And um. 00:51:47
As much as I would love to cut that spending, we're already in a contract. 00:51:48
And so. 00:51:52
Is something I definitely agree with you on, it's just. 00:51:54
Umm, not an option. 00:51:58
Appetite for cutting? 00:52:06
Because if there isn't, no, that's a waste of time, right? 00:52:08
I'm going to say again. 00:52:12
Everybody has an appetite for meaningful creative cutting. I'm speaking for all of you, but tell me if I'm wrong. 00:52:14
Anybody who? 00:52:20
If you brought something meaningful to the table. 00:52:22
That didn't. 00:52:25
Didn't take away from the quality of life of the people. 00:52:26
The service. 00:52:30
Demanded by the community. And it was. 00:52:32
And well thought out. 00:52:36
Everybody here at this table is open to that discussion. 00:52:38
I have not heard tonight. 00:52:41
One person that said they're against cutting. 00:52:43
It's how do you want to cut and is it meaningful? 00:52:46
I would really love for Brett to have you. 00:52:50
I I feel like he's. 00:52:54
Oh umm. 00:52:58
Yeah, my feeling about it is. 00:53:00
I think it is very worthwhile for us to evaluate how we're spending our money. 00:53:04
I'm I actually believe that our city is understaffed. 00:53:10
Based on our size now, is our staff appropriately allocated? 00:53:15
That I don't know, are we so are we efficient in how we're staffing our our city that I. 00:53:22
That, I think, is a very worthwhile conversation. 00:53:28
But in terms of staff to provide the services. 00:53:31
That we want and to accomplish the goals that we have as a city, as a council. 00:53:35
I actually believe we're understaffed. 00:53:41
Yeah, I do think it'll be it'll be good to. 00:53:43
Really dive into these as staff puts for their. 00:53:50
Their needs and requests and goals to take in these conversations into consideration. So please, if you have additional things. 00:53:53
And send them to the Council. 00:54:04
Council review. We can always come back to a situation like this, otherwise what we'll do. 00:54:06
Is we will start going into our regular budgeting process. 00:54:11
Which you will be meeting with. 00:54:16
Our staff and sitting down and going through things and you'll be able to. 00:54:18
Have conversations with our finance team and start working with. 00:54:24
Brett and myself and Eric and. 00:54:29
And Crispy and probably LRV and a whole crew of people to answer any questions that you might have. So we'll start that process. 00:54:33
But if anybody wants to do this again. 00:54:38
I'm more than happy. 00:54:44
To facilitate this. 00:54:45
I just want to add it is really. 00:54:48
Delegate to talk about staffing and everything and not recognize the great people that do work for our city. It's hard to kind of 00:54:52
come in and be like. 00:54:55
Hey I I don't know about this or moving things because it's not a reflection of the individual. 00:55:00
Because they're great people and they probably work hard. It's, it's a reflection of like what? 00:55:06
What service are they and is that adequate? And so I hope staffer don't take away like. 00:55:10
Oh, it's this specific person because it's not right they. 00:55:16
We have so many great individuals. 00:55:20
I also think it's tough to take that back. It's hard. 00:55:22
You know, I've been a government auctioneer for 17 years. I still do government contracts for that. 00:55:27
And it is hard to, and I mean this in the nicest way that. 00:55:33
Department staff obviously don't ever want to cut budget because it's their budget and that's their people and it's they like and 00:55:40
so like I always. 00:55:43
I want department heads to feel like the door is open to be able to listen to them. 00:55:47
But at the same, at the same time, I'm more interested in talking with this group of like is that or is that not? 00:55:52
Because it's us making that decision if that is, you know, a service that we need or not. 00:55:59
I mean, I know there's a difference of opinion of. 00:56:06
I believe we could run and administer this government about 10% of the size, like with a cut. 00:56:09
But obviously, you know, but I'm not going to get offended and I appreciate the time. 00:56:16
Exploring options. 00:56:21
All right, that brings us to the clause of the meeting. I will say just on a last note, I think that. 00:56:24
That's why this forum is here, that's why we're having this discussion and that's why we go into discussions with the council and 00:56:30
the council ultimately has to make those hard decisions and the staff has always been good at respecting that side of the table 00:56:35
where we have to come to. 00:56:39
I I love the comments here about how we have. 00:56:45
And we have really been streamlined and we can always look for ways to be more efficient and find out if we are being efficient. 00:56:48
And when we find that assessment, I hope that we respect that assessment as we move forward and really. 00:56:56
Taking and holding two things at the same time, which I'm just going to say it again because everybody needs to understand it. 00:57:05
We always want to cut because we all pay property tax and taxes. 00:57:13
We also recognize the demands of the base level services that we provide. 00:57:21
And we have to be aware of them so that when the people are requesting or requiring certain things of us for their dollars to be 00:57:27
spent efficiently and transparently, that we are managing that with care. 00:57:33
And so with that. 00:57:40
We will move into the regular budget process unless I get any further requests and. 00:57:42
We'll go and I'm gonna give us just a small break. We'll be a little bit. 00:57:47
Late for the next meeting as we transfer. 00:57:51
And then it's over. Thank you. 00:57:54