Meeting: City Council Special Session

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Mayor Fullmer called for public comments.
Kim Cornelius, living in The Villas Subdivision, commented on the dedication of the water tank and asked that instead the Center Street overpass be named after Don Overson as it was his opinion that Mr. Overson had played an integral part in the construction of the overpass.
David Lauret, living on Holdaway Road, asked for details on the process of the bond approval, specifically if a vote tonight was the only one to be taken or if there would be additional votes taken at a later date. For purposes of a referendum petition, he wanted to know who could receive the application since both the city’s recorder and deputy recorder would not be available next week.
Claudia Lauret, living on Holdaway Road, explained that she had attended a town hall regarding the new city center that had been hosted by Councilmember Cameron. She still had additional questions since attending that event and wanted more details on how the project would be funded. She felt that using sales taxes would take away funding from other projects and city services that utilized that revenue.
Daria Evans, living in The Villas Subdivision, expressed her gratitude to the mayor and Councilmember Sifuentes as well as Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour for their help in answering sewer related questions she had. She shared concerns with Rank Choice Voting as well as with the Lakefront Development. She also wanted to know when the next set of sewer repairs would start and the extent of the work that was being planned.
Karen Cornelius, living in The Villas Subdivision, asked if the vote that was to be taken on the bond parameters resolution would constitute a legislative action.
Seeing no further comments, Mayor Fullmer closed public comment.
Mayor Fullmer directed both Mr. Lauret and Ms. Cornelius to contact City Recorder Pamela Spencer to help answer their questions. She explained that other questions that had been raised during public comments would be addressed tonight in discussions on the relevant agenda items. BUSINESSITEMS3.1. MunicipalAlternateVotingMethodsPilotProject(alsoknownasRankedChoice Voting) City Recorder Pamela Spencer will present a request to continue the use of the MunicipalAlternateVotingMethodsPilotProject(alsoknownasRankedChoice Voting). Themayor andCity Councilwillact to adopt(or deny) thisrequestby resolution.
City Recorder Pamela Spencer presented on the Municipal Alternate Voting Methods Pilot Project.
Councilmember Sifuentes shared her concerns and wanted to know if there was going to be a need for a primary. She also shared her thoughts from the previous council meeting presentations about ranked choice voting. She shared concerns about the process of tabulating votes. She wanted to clarify that she was not opposed to alternate voting options, but she did see some flaws with instant runoff. She hoped that there would be new options explored in the next legislative session. A discussion ensued.
Councilmember Holdaway commented on what he felt was the importance of having a primary and why he would not be voting in favor of the resolution. A discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer also expressed her gratitude for the presentations and gave her comments on ranked choice voting. A discussion ensued.
Councilmember Clawson stated that he had intended to vote no, as well. His vote was not based on a dislike of ranked choice voting, in fact he preferred it, but he felt the community was very divided on it. He felt that because the pilot program with the state was set to sunset this year that there was no point in continuing to use it for one last year.
Councilmember Cameron expressed her gratitude both for delaying a vote, as well as for the presentations held during the last meeting. She felt they had been very informative.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion on the item.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON MOVED TO DENY THE REQUEST. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER AND COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, SIFUENTES, CLAWSON AND HOLDAWAY VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 2. BondParametersResolution(Resolution2025-15) David Robertson with Lewis Robertson and Burningham will present a resolution authorizing the issuance and sale of not more than $35,000,000 aggregate principal amountofVineyardCity,UtahSalesandFranchiseTaxRevenueBonds,series2025; and related matters. The mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution and set a public hearing for May,25.
David Robertson, with Lewis Robertson and Burningham (LRB) presented on the Bond Parameters Resolution.
Councilmember Holdaway asked about the interest rate and sought clarification on fixed versus variable rate. Mr. Robertson explained what the industry referred to as “True Interest Cost.” A discussion ensued.
Mr. Robertson continued his presentation.
Councilmember Holdaway asked if any other cities in Utah County had utilized the proposed bond to finance a city hall. He stated that he had looked but could not find any.
Brad Patterson, with Gillmore and Bell, answered questions on projects that had been financed in the county using sales tax revenue bonds. He stated that it was not uncommon to see city halls or other buildings financed that way.
Mr. Robertson continued his presentation.
Councilmember Holdaway asked to enter a correction based on a text that he had just received from someone in Orem, he stated that Orem’s total budget was $152 Million. He stated that Vineyard’s was $12 Million and that both cities would be spending around $30 Million on their city halls. Also, that their bond passed in18 had been submitted to voters. Councilmember Cameron clarified that it had been her understanding that those funds were for the rec center and not city hall. Mr. Patterson, who had been a part of that process, informed the council that it had been placed before the public because it was a General Obligation bond and not a Sales Tax Revenue Bond as was being discussed for Vineyard.
Councilmember Holdaway felt that it was important to see the comparison between the two cities’ total budgets with both building a similarly priced building. Mr. Robertson asked for clarification on what was being compared as budget was not a factor but rather tax revenue and he wanted there to be a clear “apples to apples” comparison. Councilmember Sifuentes added that she did not feel it was unusual for a growing city to build a city hall. She also wanted to stress that she felt it was important for all parties to be talking about the same numbers.
Councilmember Clawson asked if a market analysis would be part of the more detailed analysis being completed later in the process. Mr. Robertson explained that it would not be necessary because there was so much development that was coming in that investors would feel comfortable without one.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for clarification on FY2024 Sales Tax and Franchise Revenue. He said it was his understanding that it had already all been spent. Mr. Robertson explained that not all of it had been spent and that initial discussions between his firm and the city’s finance director indicated that there was still enough fluidity in the revenue to be able to afford the bond the payment. Councilmember Holdaway said that he did not like that answer and felt it would make it harder for the city in the future to “buy big things.” Mr. Robertson stated that on the surface the city had the cashflow to support the project. Councilmember Holdaway expressed concern that it would require dedicating money to that project and would take away from money that had been previously dedicated to other projects.
Based on the discussion, Mr. Robertson gave a brief overview of the bond process.
Councilmember Holdaway asked about the nature of the vote taking place that night, and if there would be subsequent votes taken. Mr. Roberston indicated that any vote would be to delegate the authority to price and sell the bonds.
Councilmember Holdaway asked acting City Attorney Brad Christopherson if a vote taken on the bond parameters constituted a legislative action, for the purposes of a referendum petition. Mr. Christopherson clarified that statue required the city attorney to make that determination only after an application for a referendum is filed. To do so before any vote was taken could create a conflict of interest between himself and the city council. He insisted that it was premature for either himself or Jayme Blakesley to make that determination before any vote had been taken.
Councilmember Holdaway wanted to know why a public hearing would be scheduled for after the vote on the Bond Parameters Resolution if the process is finalized after that. Mr. Patterson explained that it was a requirement in state statute that a public hearing be held before the finalization of the bond sale. A discussion ensued. The council discussed the overall process as well as how frequently they would check in with the council. They also asked if there would be times during the process that, if they felt inclined, the council would still be able to withdraw the authority delegated as part of the bond parameters resolution.
Councilmember Clawson wanted to know if the resolution could be amended to include a market study. A discussion ensued.
Councilmember Holdaway asked for clarification on contestability timelines. Mr. Patterson explained that in addition to a referendum, there were timelines for lawsuits as well. A discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer expressed her support for the resolution and said that she thought it was a good opportunity to move forward and get the research done to ensure the council felt good about the decision they would make.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO TABLE THE RESOLUTION. THERE WAS NO SECOND. THE MOTION FAILED.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON MOVED TO APPROVE RESOLUTION25-15 AS PRESENTED. SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING TO OCCUR ON MAY,25, AND WITH THE ADDED STIPULATION THAT IT BE BROUGHT BACK BEFORE THE COUNCIL AT THAT TIME FOR ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION AND ACTION. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES AMENDED THE MOTION TO INCLUDE ADDING COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON AS A DESIGNATED OFFICER. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER AND COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, SIFUENTES AND CLAWSON VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR (4) TO ONE (1). CLOSEDSESSIONThere was no closed session during this meeting. ADJOURNMENTMayor Fullmer adjourned the meeting at50 MINUTES APPROVED ON: April,25 CERTIFIED CORRECT BY: TONY LARA, DEPUTY CITY RECORDER

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Event transcript
	All right. Thank you for joining us today.	00:00:01
	April 3rd, 2025. The time is 603.	00:00:04
	We're going to start out with an invocation of the Pledge of Allegiance and.	00:00:09
	Sarah will go ahead and lead us in that.	00:00:13
	Right. Dear Father in Heaven, we come before Thee at the beginning of this meeting and ask my spirit to be with us and.	00:00:20
	That that will help us too.	00:00:26
	Make it productive and useful.	00:00:28
	That we'll be able to.	00:00:31
	Address concerns and.	00:00:33
	Relay the facts of.	00:00:35
	The things happening in the city and.	00:00:37
	We pray that.	00:00:39
	Will I have?	00:00:40
	A heart of.	00:00:42
	Seeking understanding and.	00:00:43
	Collaboration.	00:00:45
	We loved you again and we're grateful.	00:00:46
	For thy spirit and.	00:00:48
	Thy guidance and inspiration. And we say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen.	00:00:50
	Alright.	00:00:58
	One nation under God, indivisible.	00:01:08
	All right, we'll go ahead and start out with public comments. This is a time for you to address the Council with things that are	00:01:25
	not on the agenda that you wanted to bring.	00:01:29
	Forward.	00:01:34
	If you want to, go ahead and.	00:01:35
	Leak at the podium. State your name.	00:01:36
	You'll have two minutes.	00:01:39
	And share your concerns with us.	00:01:40
	Kim Cornelius Villas.	00:01:52
	Kept kind of a low profile over the last several weeks.	00:01:57
	I don't like just.	00:02:00
	Talking to hear myself talk. So I've been.	00:02:03
	But he reserved it.	00:02:05
	Circumstances are such that.	00:02:07
	I wanted to share with you a thought.	00:02:10
	That has come after a.	00:02:13
	Very touching and heartwarming experience I had yesterday afternoon.	00:02:16
	In the home of Don and Corey Overson.	00:02:20
	Just to review, Don passed away a couple of weeks ago and I.	00:02:23
	Just felt like it was important since we're.	00:02:27
	Very close neighbors to.	00:02:29
	Go away and just visit with Corey and he was probably one of the best 45 minutes I've spent in a long time.	00:02:31
	I know a lot of the strong women.	00:02:38
	But to see what she's.	00:02:40
	Doing in the circumstances that she finds herself in.	00:02:42
	It is truly remarkable.	00:02:46
	In the course of our discussion, she shared with me that the city had reached out to her and offered to.	00:02:48
	In dedication to Don.	00:02:55
	Put his name on it.	00:02:57
	On a city water tank.	00:02:58
	I didn't know whether to laugh.	00:03:02
	Or to just.	00:03:04
	That they're stone faced.	00:03:05
	But I did share that with some friends and.	00:03:07
	One such friend.	00:03:12
	Good friend David Larae suggested maybe you would reconsider.	00:03:13
	Since Don played such an integral part in his Center St. overpass.	00:03:17
	That you name that overpass.	00:03:21
	The Don Overson Center St. Overpass.	00:03:24
	So I just asked you to consider that he was a nickel.	00:03:27
	Part of that process to my understanding.	00:03:30
	It came in under budget.	00:03:33
	Like million.	00:03:36
	$9 million in total cost, which is about half of what the deal.	00:03:37
	T was gonna do it for.	00:03:42
	And it was well within the timeframes that they.	00:03:44
	Thought that they would be able to finish it so I just ask for your consideration with that.	00:03:46
	Hi.	00:04:02
	All the way Rd.	00:04:04
	So I'm.	00:04:07
	I wanted to ask a couple questions. They're they're.	00:04:08
	Totally related to.	00:04:11
	They did tonight, but they're sort of ancillary to it and I'm.	00:04:13
	I wanted to find out.	00:04:16
	First of all, if a vote is.	00:04:18
	On the.	00:04:20
	On the.	00:04:21
	The item for the.	00:04:23
	You know the bonding of the Vineyard Center.	00:04:25
	Tonight, would there need to be an additional vote taken to start that project?	00:04:28
	Or would it be would just having that vote taken?	00:04:33
	If the, if the.	00:04:36
	If our advisors find an appropriate bond that meets all the.	00:04:37
	The criteria that we that you agree to.	00:04:41
	Within the project has to begin at that point.	00:04:44
	Or would have taken a mystery of.	00:04:47
	We're taking our vote from account from the.	00:04:48
	Tire Council.	00:04:51
	So that's the first question and.	00:04:52
	Second question is that.	00:04:53
	If uh.	00:04:55
	If it were to determine the.	00:04:56
	A citizen group wanted to file a referendum.	00:04:58
	We know we have a certain number of days to get that.	00:05:00
	That paperwork into the.	00:05:03
	So the city clerks.	00:05:04
	Corner which is serves on our clerk.	00:05:06
	And they're gone this next week. And so we want to who?	00:05:08
	Who would be available to receive that in the?	00:05:11
	The appropriate time frame.	00:05:14
	So those are.	00:05:16
	2 questions.	00:05:17
	Thank you.	00:05:18
	I do have a question.	00:05:28
	About finances and.	00:05:30
	We're talking about. I want to.	00:05:33
	Sarah's the.	00:05:36
	I don't know what it was.	00:05:38
	Informational meeting.	00:05:40
	Talking about the.	00:05:43
	Near City Hall possibilities and.	00:05:45
	And I learned a lot.	00:05:49
	And it was exciting to see what was going on and I think.	00:05:51
	We all want to have a really viable, wonderful city.	00:05:56
	The thing I don't get.	00:06:00
	Is how it's not going to cost us.	00:06:03
	We talk about.	00:06:07
	It's coming from the sales tax. Well, then we're robbing the sales tax from something else, so.	00:06:08
	It just it, just I.	00:06:14
	It could be my upbringing.	00:06:16
	In the 50s and the 60s.	00:06:19
	My dad had the same.	00:06:21
	Answer every time I ask for something.	00:06:23
	Dad, can I go to the movie?	00:06:26
	Save your money.	00:06:28
	That was it.	00:06:29
	And it is a good way to do things.	00:06:30
	And.	00:06:34
	I think it's harmful to the citizens.	00:06:37
	To to take away.	00:06:41
	The sales tax, if that's what's going on here.	00:06:46
	And rob us.	00:06:50
	Of things now.	00:06:51
	To pay for some.	00:06:53
	That really is needed down the road.	00:06:55
	Just because it's on sale.	00:06:59
	Just because.	00:07:00
	You know it's a good deal.	00:07:02
	It's really hard for people who have lived our whole lives.	00:07:03
	Paying into Social Security Paying.	00:07:08
	You know, we've, we've paid and paid and paid.	00:07:11
	And we don't want.	00:07:14
	Are taxes to be raised? We don't.	00:07:16
	I just would love to hear why this is so important.	00:07:22
	Thank you.	00:07:28
	Adaria Evans, the Villas resident, I would just like to thank you again for another opportunity to speak with you tonight.	00:07:41
	I'd like to express my appreciation to Marty and the mayor.	00:07:48
	For their willingness to help me with some sewer questions that I had and messing.	00:07:52
	Reached out to me and we were able to get that.	00:07:57
	Situation explained.	00:07:59
	And I am grateful for that.	00:08:01
	I would like to refer to some.	00:08:05
	Statements made in our March 26 City Council meeting.	00:08:07
	Stating about the one.	00:08:11
	Our 23 minute.	00:08:13
	08 Mark.	00:08:14
	Professor Perry was talking about ranked choice voting.	00:08:17
	And, umm.	00:08:21
	I do not believe that I am being.	00:08:24
	Incentivized to vote dishonestly.	00:08:27
	By voting for the candidate I want over another in pro.	00:08:29
	Plurality voting? Excuse me.	00:08:34
	And I do not.	00:08:37
	The care for the idea of a mathematical.	00:08:38
	Algorithm determining.	00:08:40
	The outcome of an election I like.	00:08:42
	11 vote.	00:08:45
	1 winner.	00:08:47
	That's just my opinion.	00:08:48
	And also going back to that last meeting.	00:08:50
	I also I want to state that I believe that we need to make the lakefront community whole.	00:08:55
	By finishing the improvement.	00:09:00
	The improvements that the builder left.	00:09:02
	Because Vineyard City did not have a written contract.	00:09:04
	With the builders to complete that work.	00:09:07
	We went through that litigation.	00:09:10
	And I think we need to take care of.	00:09:12
	What?	00:09:16
	It's missing or absent in the lakefront community. We need to make them whole.	00:09:18
	And also.	00:09:24
	Regarding their sewer system repair.	00:09:25
	I know it is being budgeted for.	00:09:28
	But when and how substantial will the next?	00:09:30
	Repairs B.	00:09:35
	How much will it cost?	00:09:37
	We need to have plenty of money in which.	00:09:39
	We don't know what the economy will do in the near future.	00:09:44
	Careful with our resources.	00:09:47
	Thank you.	00:09:48
	Cornelius Velas resident.	00:10:06
	I just want to ask all of you up there to do me a favor, and this isn't a hard one.	00:10:08
	I'm a geek, so I don't take notes while I'm here at the meeting. I listen to it the next day.	00:10:12
	But I can't hear most of you.	00:10:18
	No matter what I do with the volume on my computer.	00:10:20
	So if you could make certain.	00:10:23
	That you speak into your.	00:10:25
	So that I can clearly understand.	00:10:27
	Because that's when I take my notes.	00:10:29
	And then the only thing I want to ask is.	00:10:32
	Is the vote you will take tonight?	00:10:34
	Whichever way it goes.	00:10:36
	Is that a legislative vote?	00:10:38
	Can I get, can you answer that for me tonight?	00:10:45
	I will answer questions or direct you to the right spot when we're all done with public comment.	00:10:47
	Thank you.	00:10:52
	Are there any other questions or?	00:11:16
	Public comment.	00:11:18
	All right, I'm going to go ahead and close public.	00:11:21
	Kim, thanks for the.	00:11:24
	Suggestion. Umm.	00:11:26
	David, you all want to talk to Pam and Karen, you want to talk to Pam at some point in the future.	00:11:30
	Maybe PM you can connect with them.	00:11:36
	And then let's see.	00:11:39
	We will be discussing Claudia's item on the agenda.	00:11:41
	And we will be discussing part of Daria's.	00:11:46
	Discussion on the agenda with.	00:11:49
	Reserves and then let's see, we'll also be discussing part of your item on the agenda with the alternative voting methods.	00:11:53
	So with that, we'll go ahead and move right on to the agenda.	00:12:01
	Let me see what's up first.	00:12:05
	All right, that puts us to 3.1, the Municipal Alternative Voting Methods pilot project, and Pam will present and then we'll go	00:12:10
	ahead and we'll take a vote.	00:12:14
	OK, good. Didn't sound like it was on.	00:12:34
	I've never made that mistake before.	00:12:37
	So anyway, thank you for.	00:12:40
	For letting me present this tonight, I have a deadline.	00:12:41
	That I need to meet and I appreciate this.	00:12:45
	Are you allowing us to do this tonight? I know we talked at length.	00:12:48
	There were presentations at length last week about this SO.	00:12:53
	I can go into details. I can just let you know that we've done it the last three election cycles.	00:12:56
	From the beginning.	00:13:01
	We we would like to do it one more time, but we understand.	00:13:02
	Hello.	00:13:07
	Whatever you guys decide, we will.	00:13:09
	We will run that kind of election so.	00:13:11
	Anyway.	00:13:14
	I just wanted to give you another.	00:13:15
	Small update, if we did do our CV it would save us about $20,000 if we didn't hold the primary.	00:13:18
	So and regardless, we're not gonna know if we need a primary and.	00:13:24
	If we do it traditionally.	00:13:28
	Election until.	00:13:31
	After the declaration period.	00:13:33
	So.	00:13:35
	Regardless, we won't know if we need that money or not.	00:13:36
	And just to let you know what it would save us if we did it that way.	00:13:40
	So and then the other thing is is.	00:13:45
	Currently we have.	00:13:47
	Almost 68.	00:13:48
	100 registered voters were doing a push to try to get more.	00:13:50
	And with the apartments coming online?	00:13:54
	Later this spring.	00:13:57
	How often are they opening buildings?	00:14:01
	Anyway so though.	00:14:03
	If we can do that push, we're hoping to get more registered voters so.	00:14:04
	Unless you have any questions for me about last week's discussions or that it.	00:14:08
	That you've thought of in the meantime.	00:14:13
	That's all I've got.	00:14:18
	OK. Are there any questions?	00:14:19
	All right then I just need a motion.	00:14:24
	Well, I guess.	00:14:27
	Hey yes Pam, you could answer this.	00:14:29
	With rank choice loading, one of my concerns has been I don't want to have like.	00:14:32
	The whole conversation of doing a primary versus not doing a primary.	00:14:38
	And your current plan with ranked choice voting would be just no primary.	00:14:42
	Yeah, we've we.	00:14:47
	You know, other than when we did the.	00:14:49
	Vacancy. We've never had enough.	00:14:51
	To make that.	00:14:54
	Ballot really long so.	00:14:56
	So yeah, at this point in time.	00:14:59
	There'd be no reason to have a primary.	00:15:01
	I'm happy to share my thoughts and opinions.	00:15:07
	I thoroughly enjoyed our last council meeting. I know it was probably a little bit long.	00:15:11
	With the conversation.	00:15:17
	A rank choice voting is something that.	00:15:19
	I have been studying for a long time and I find it incredibly fascinating and I.	00:15:21
	Feel like I still learned new things last week.	00:15:26
	Even with how much I've been.	00:15:29
	Researching things.	00:15:31
	Quite a few videos online.	00:15:35
	But umm.	00:15:37
	Just like some of my concerns with ranked choice voting.	00:15:39
	Are the the scenario.	00:15:42
	With specifically, that was shared about.	00:15:47
	The election in.	00:15:50
	Wow, it might have been 2019.	00:15:53
	Where Christy took first.	00:15:55
	And then she her votes were relegated to.	00:15:58
	Everyone and they went into the second.	00:16:02
	Ground it does.	00:16:05
	Concern me that.	00:16:08
	Tice's votes.	00:16:11
	Basically for everyone that voted for him didn't have a say on a second person.	00:16:12
	That's one of my concerns, especially since we're going to have.	00:16:19
	Three seats open.	00:16:22
	And I personally, if I were to pick.	00:16:25
	The person in the third spot and they just kind of held tight the whole way.	00:16:28
	I I would be really frustrated that I didn't get a say on the 1st 2:00.	00:16:33
	So I guess I want to make it clear for the public.	00:16:38
	That, uh.	00:16:40
	It's not that I'm against ranked choice voting.	00:16:41
	I, I think it's, I think I said last week, I think it's fun to be able to.	00:16:44
	I'm not even fun. I think it's representative to be able to say these are the people I like and this is the order I like them in.	00:16:49
	I really like the ideas of having.	00:16:55
	Voting options, but.	00:16:58
	I do see.	00:17:01
	Some some really concerning flaws with instant runoff counting.	00:17:02
	I am interested in the future, I hope that they do that legislation does allow.	00:17:07
	Pilot programs so that we can learn about.	00:17:13
	Different options.	00:17:15
	Plurality does have its flaws, but, as we learned last week, does.	00:17:17
	It seems that they all do.	00:17:21
	I agree and so.	00:17:23
	What it comes down to just with my perspective. I'm sorry if I'm long winded but.	00:17:26
	Vineyard, I think it's pretty great that.	00:17:32
	Been willing to try a different form of voting.	00:17:35
	And I think that.	00:17:38
	I really appreciate the people that are pushing for different forms of voting.	00:17:42
	But uh.	00:17:45
	I kind of felt.	00:17:46
	Like a Guinea pig last week I felt like.	00:17:48
	We've tried it a few times.	00:17:51
	We've really tried to help in the cause.	00:17:52
	And I'm OK.	00:17:55
	If the Council decides to end it.	00:17:56
	Today and you.	00:17:59
	Voting and I'm.	00:18:00
	But if it doesn't go that direction, I also respect that.	00:18:03
	Rank choice voting or specifically alternate voting?	00:18:06
	Is an exciting endeavor.	00:18:09
	Yeah. OK. I just have a question on the comment emails about.	00:18:11
	Christie's waltz being redistributed her.	00:18:17
	1st place votes.	00:18:20
	Don't count anymore after that, Yeah.	00:18:22
	So it's the confusion. The confusion is the counts of rounds. So the way that he explained it.	00:18:24
	She was talking about preference.	00:18:31
	And the way that Marty just explained is that she thought that you could only vote for one seat, that she.	00:18:33
	It's the multiple announcement.	00:18:39
	She doesn't. She's not accounting for in this.	00:18:41
	Yeah.	00:18:43
	I'm I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'm I'm saying that.	00:18:46
	The way that that election turned out.	00:18:49
	Is if you voted for Christie first that obviously helped her, or if you voted for her second with other candidates?	00:18:52
	That obviously helped her get her majority.	00:18:57
	Or her over 51 or over.	00:19:00
	50.1%.	00:19:02
	But then if you voted for tice.	00:19:04
	She was never eliminated.	00:19:06
	And so only your first vote for Tice counted anyone else that you listed.	00:19:08
	If you had tices your very first, pick anyone else that you listed.	00:19:14
	That vote never went into the statistics of the voting.	00:19:18
	Cycle.	00:19:21
	Because he was never eliminated.	00:19:22
	So in that scenario.	00:19:25
	People like.	00:19:28
	You know if they voted for Anthony Jenkins or Keith Hooter or Tate gunman.	00:19:29
	They actually got multiple votes counted because those people were.	00:19:33
	Is it relegated or what's the?	00:19:37
	Their votes are distributed so so like that.	00:19:40
	So we have 5 people.	00:19:43
	Say and that fifth one.	00:19:44
	Would be eliminated. Those second place votes would be redistributed among the other candidates depending on who they voted for.	00:19:46
	Same with the 4th.	00:19:51
	People that voted for Tice first because since Tice was never eliminated.	00:19:55
	You only if you had him first. You never had a say on the second candidate.	00:20:00
	Like he was well.	00:20:05
	Everybody gets the same say on the second candidate.	00:20:08
	Yeah, because.	00:20:12
	So the way that.	00:20:14
	She explained it last time was a bit confusing and it's.	00:20:16
	Two things that are being discussed.	00:20:19
	What she was talking about was Wendy, not you.	00:20:21
	Sorry, Wendy.	00:20:25
	Was expressing.	00:20:27
	That there is a preference.	00:20:28
	And the way that your vote is counted.	00:20:30
	However.	00:20:33
	What wasn't?	00:20:34
	Clear, which I think is what Pam is trying to explain, is that.	00:20:35
	Your votes did count for the second.	00:20:39
	It didn't go through the runoff.	00:20:42
	And then twice was eliminated and that was the end of the vote.	00:20:44
	It went through.	00:20:47
	Round one.	00:20:48
	Tice was your first choice, Christie was your second choice, Anthony was your third choice. Round one, it went through.	00:20:50
	Tice was your first choice.	00:20:56
	But he got voted in. So that vote, he's now eliminated now.	00:20:57
	Second round.	00:21:01
	It goes and the count starts over. So.	00:21:02
	The way that the preference is treated.	00:21:05
	Is that even though tice is eliminated?	00:21:08
	Your actual second choice for second seat.	00:21:10
	Is still your first choice.	00:21:13
	In preference, it's just countered strangely because.	00:21:15
	Of how the count happens and one thing is, is that.	00:21:19
	Everybody is basically a limited.	00:21:23
	Eliminated except for the winner.	00:21:25
	In the long run.	00:21:27
	So everybody's votes do fall off.	00:21:28
	And get redistributed.	00:21:31
	Until you have that winner.	00:21:32
	And then everybody's comes back in, starts again. The the 1st place votes for Christy, obviously aren't Hannah. Then they go to	00:21:34
	the second.	00:21:38
	Boat and it goes through that same elimination process. I feel like I understand the process and.	00:21:42
	Mark Roberts confirmed that. What I'm saying is.	00:21:47
	Is true.	00:21:50
	That what Wendy said is accurate. That.	00:21:52
	If you voted.	00:21:54
	This is my thought. Statistically, I really enjoy statistics.	00:21:56
	But if if you voted for tice.	00:21:59
	What if every single person that voted for Tice voted for?	00:22:02
	Anthony Jenkins, second.	00:22:07
	We don't know.	00:22:09
	Because we never got to really see their votes coming. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yes, that really could change the	00:22:10
	determination of the ballot.	00:22:14
	If we were voting just in plurality.	00:22:18
	If I.	00:22:21
	If I voted twice as my first pick.	00:22:22
	Then in Anthony was my second then.	00:22:24
	Those votes.	00:22:27
	But I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? Yeah, but Mark Roberts actually confirmed the preference, not the rounds of.	00:22:28
	Of counting, yeah.	00:22:37
	Which is a little bit more.	00:22:38
	Yeah. And if we have three seats then?	00:22:40
	Tyson's second place would have counted for that for.	00:22:43
	See, yeah, so, and that's just depending on how many seats you have as to whether I guess what I'm saying.	00:22:46
	For the public and.	00:22:52
	Like I said, I'm not.	00:22:55
	Anti different forms of voting. I'm open to the ideas, it's just.	00:22:56
	Over and over again I've seen the flaws of ranked choice voting, and it was really wonderful to hear the people that were.	00:23:02
	Even pushing for rank choice voting to acknowledge.	00:23:08
	That there's no perfect system.	00:23:10
	I do appreciate that rank choice voting does give a lower cost.	00:23:13
	But I looked at Lehigh and I was so grateful for them that they had a primary. I don't know how they knew they needed a primary.	00:23:18
	That's the thing. Because you have to vote way before.	00:23:25
	That to do the primary so that changes when your declaration period is and everything. So that was fascinating to me and I asked	00:23:28
	she goes.	00:23:32
	I don't know.	00:23:36
	They didn't. They were saying it was part of their code or something that they have to have. They have to have a primary, yeah,	00:23:38
	but then they ended up having.	00:23:41
	A lot of people run for council, so that was crazy. So yeah.	00:23:46
	And that to me that that is really hard to sort through all of those candidates and so.	00:23:52
	I really.	00:23:57
	Want us to be able to.	00:23:58
	Cat, I hate this.	00:24:01
	Trim the fat.	00:24:03
	And get to the people that really.	00:24:05
	Yeah, we can really focus on their platform. And my only other thing I just want to say.	00:24:07
	That's my opinion, obviously.	00:24:12
	Is that?	00:24:14
	Running in the plurality.	00:24:16
	You can win by 30 something percent and so that tells you that 60 something.	00:24:18
	Didn't vote for you?	00:24:23
	To win, right?	00:24:25
	And so with ranked choice, I know that you at least voted for me at some point in time in your ranking and that that kind of makes	00:24:27
	me feel better.	00:24:31
	'Cause that means.	00:24:34
	That, yeah, you didn't.	00:24:35
	Not vote for me.	00:24:37
	Because just like any other election, you don't have to vote for everybody.	00:24:39
	Just like any other election.	00:24:42
	So if you don't want to vote for somebody, don't vote for him. But.	00:24:44
	So that's just my other thought on that and that.	00:24:48
	I appreciate it and thank you for discussing it with me.	00:24:51
	Thank you, Respect.	00:24:54
	That there's different perspectives on this? Yep.	00:24:56
	That's great. Thank you.	00:24:58
	Any other questions or comments?	00:25:01
	By the Council.	00:25:03
	I'll just say why I'd be voting against it.	00:25:09
	In in my experience.	00:25:13
	The primary.	00:25:15
	Is an opportunity to engage citizens very early on in the process and kind of wake up citizens that are very sleepy.	00:25:17
	And so.	00:25:24
	I think it's really important to pay that.	00:25:26
	20 grand or whatever to just say hey, this is happening.	00:25:28
	Because they kind of need a.	00:25:32
	Prep and then #2.	00:25:33
	Incumbents have a very entrenched advantage with name recognition and everything and the vast majority of challenges.	00:25:37
	Challengers.	00:25:44
	Are running because they believe in a.	00:25:45
	Different.	00:25:48
	Direction.	00:25:50
	Generally.	00:25:51
	And so.	00:25:52
	What happens in a primary is it allows.	00:25:54
	Challengers to go and put their name out there.	00:25:56
	And then after that it gives what, a 90 day period?	00:26:00
	For all of those challengers to have time to say.	00:26:03
	Do we want to group up together and use forces?	00:26:07
	To unseat the incumbent and that is really important because it helps balance out power.	00:26:10
	And the advantage of an incumbency.	00:26:18
	And it gives them that 90 day period to organize. Whereas with ranked choice voting, it's like.	00:26:20
	It happened.	00:26:26
	But it's like it's so quick that it.	00:26:27
	It's easy for an incumbent to say I'm just gonna not do any debates or anything and just wait till the end.	00:26:29
	And so and also, I just think.	00:26:35
	It's just as a referee, you're changing the scoring of the game, whether it be statistically better or not. It's just like.	00:26:39
	This is the game, whether it be good or bad.	00:26:45
	That's the way it's played and so that's why it's.	00:26:47
	I why I would go that way? I just I just have a.	00:26:51
	And mostly to go out to the public and to anybody that chooses to run, regardless of what kind of an election we run.	00:26:54
	That primaries get the least amount of voters. Everybody wants to wait and vote in the general election.	00:27:00
	The problem with not voting in a primary?	00:27:07
	Is that then the person you really want to get in?	00:27:10
	Might not get in because you chose not to vote. If you don't think one vote matters, look at our 2015 election where we had.	00:27:13
	A It was close enough vote.	00:27:22
	That we had to do a recount.	00:27:25
	Everybody gained.	00:27:28
	Votes, so you can't tell me that.	00:27:30
	The counting systems are perfect either.	00:27:32
	But everybody gained votes and we ended up in a tie and we had to roll the dice.	00:27:35
	To determine.	00:27:40
	Who took the seat?	00:27:42
	So I just want that out there to the public.	00:27:43
	Please vote in the primary if we have one.	00:27:46
	It sounds like.	00:27:50
	Only it might be leaning that way.	00:27:51
	I will.	00:27:52
	I was really grateful as well for the people that came. I found it interesting that in multiple surveys, the people of Vineyard	00:27:54
	want to bring choice voting.	00:27:58
	I liked that the state law changed and allowed you to.	00:28:03
	Make a primary.	00:28:06
	It allows for you to still have a primary while still keeping your actions open.	00:28:07
	I think it's interesting.	00:28:12
	When we're talking about incumbents and challengers because ranked choice voting.	00:28:14
	Is an opportunity for those people to have.	00:28:18
	To kind of move outside of the name recognition.	00:28:23
	Because you get too.	00:28:25
	Rank your people instead of just voting for.	00:28:26
	One person or two people?	00:28:30
	Whatever the seats are that are.	00:28:32
	Open umm.	00:28:33
	And I thought it was interesting too, that.	00:28:34
	And every mark that they.	00:28:37
	Vote against ranked choice voting.	00:28:40
	They found the same types of errors in plurality.	00:28:42
	Only there was an advantage of less errors in ranked choice voting.	00:28:46
	Now the pilots ending this year.	00:28:51
	And we also heard another method that might come out and I don't know if us.	00:28:53
	Leaving it means that.	00:28:57
	The state's going to look at it and say, well, why don't you continue on with it? But if.	00:28:59
	The reason is that we're just kind of moving outside of it and saying.	00:29:03
	The state's closing down on it so we can move outside of it.	00:29:06
	I'm happy to support.	00:29:09
	The Council in the direction that you've.	00:29:11
	That you want to go, but if it's for the.	00:29:13
	People.	00:29:15
	Who want their voices to be heard the most?	00:29:16
	And to offer.	00:29:19
	Opportunities for.	00:29:21
	Primaries in income.	00:29:24
	Challengers.	00:29:25
	Fair scoring, It seems like everything that we were taught last week speaks to the opposite side of that.	00:29:27
	Yeah. Oh, sorry. One other thing just real quick on the comment that you made is that.	00:29:32
	For for something that you also.	00:29:39
	Said Jake. Is that when you're going out in your canvassing?	00:29:41
	In a in a regular one, you don't want anybody to vote for anybody else unless you have.	00:29:44
	Joined with.	00:29:49
	Somebody which we know you guys did that last?	00:29:50
	For the last election cycle.	00:29:53
	But the idea of ranked choice voting is is you go out and you post your name, you push your platform, you do all that and say,	00:29:55
	hey, if I'm not your first choice, please at least make me your second or third choice for this year. It would be your third	00:29:59
	choice.	00:30:03
	That's just something I want to throw out there too for.	00:30:08
	For canvassing.	00:30:11
	I mean.	00:30:14
	I agree, I think it does.	00:30:15
	Foster Fo.	00:30:17
	Better rhetoric like.	00:30:20
	Yeah, better. Umm.	00:30:22
	Just kinder elections.	00:30:24
	Mayor I I appreciate your perspective, but I really.	00:30:27
	I from my experience.	00:30:31
	I really believe that.	00:30:34
	Our community is divided on this pretty.	00:30:36
	Like I, I feel like there are a lot of people that love it, a lot of people that don't.	00:30:39
	And a lot of people that.	00:30:44
	You may or may not care less.	00:30:46
	I really just wanted to say that I don't know well and I like it. I I was just stating what we saw in the surveys with the data	00:30:48
	that came to us. I just found it interesting that those were the results from the surveys that came in, but.	00:30:55
	Like I said, I'm I'm totally willing to support you guys if what you're feeling out there is that.	00:31:03
	The data that's coming back is not representative of the people.	00:31:08
	I I understand that.	00:31:12
	If you have a one minute depending on which survey we're talking about, right, because one of.	00:31:14
	The surveys that were shared.	00:31:18
	Was very limited we had maybe like 20 people we were counting and so that's yeah, that was not and that was the statewide weighted	00:31:20
	survey that had and it's probably the same thing that.	00:31:26
	When we were doing all of our training and everything, we held it at the Vineyard days and we held it here and.	00:31:32
	And people were going, well, we know how to do this.	00:31:38
	We get it. So then we did an exit poll for people when we had a boat center here.	00:31:41
	Everybody that.	00:31:46
	Came out from that said.	00:31:47
	Oh yeah, it was easy when we understand it.	00:31:49
	So so.	00:31:51
	So that kind of stuff.	00:31:53
	For that, of course, that was in 2019 and that's an additional survey. That's an additional thing that we did just to see.	00:31:55
	That's quite amazing. The ranked choice voting is great.	00:32:04
	Instant runoff, counting hazards, falls is how I see.	00:32:07
	I think I think everything has.	00:32:10
	Flaws and counting so.	00:32:11
	Or in your outcome.	00:32:14
	On things but.	00:32:15
	Like I said, how whatever you guys decide.	00:32:17
	We will run that election with the best of our abilities.	00:32:19
	Yeah, I have.	00:32:24
	Comment I'd like to make for For my part I'll.	00:32:26
	Vote against it as well.	00:32:29
	But it's not because I think ranked choice voting is.	00:32:30
	Bad. I actually prefer it.	00:32:34
	But I do think that the community is very divided on it.	00:32:36
	And I also see the state having acted.	00:32:39
	And I also see as it was a pilot to begin with, which to me implies experiment.	00:32:43
	And the point of an experiment is to gather data and learn.	00:32:50
	And I wonder.	00:32:53
	What is the value of what?	00:32:55
	One more run at it before the experiment ends.	00:32:57
	We close it out.	00:33:01
	To to learn from.	00:33:03
	And what I heard tonight is that the value would be $20,000.	00:33:05
	That's what I heard.	00:33:09
	Yeah, just to close it out.	00:33:10
	Say we ran it all the whole time, but.	00:33:12
	You know what? Like I said.	00:33:14
	It's up to you guys.	00:33:17
	All right. I feel like we have a motion.	00:33:18
	Like we have group.	00:33:21
	Well, you all, you all covered it. I well, I actually, yeah.	00:33:25
	I really appreciate that we delayed.	00:33:29
	Putting it on the agenda so we could have.	00:33:32
	That works best and it was really valuable and when they talked about plurality.	00:33:34
	I remember, I remember growing up and having spoiler votes for the presidency. I.	00:33:40
	You know, I remember that.	00:33:44
	And so I hadn't really considered it before.	00:33:46
	And so to have the pros and cons of all of the different.	00:33:50
	Voting systems for me was really valuable.	00:33:53
	And the.	00:33:55
	And I liked the idea of a spreadsheet where they brought in the.	00:33:58
	The what was it? Ringed pairs?	00:34:01
	Seem to have less.	00:34:04
	Of a downside, you know.	00:34:06
	So I'm not opposed to.	00:34:07
	To looking at other forms in the future, but again.	00:34:08
	Our community is small.	00:34:12
	And there's a lot of voices.	00:34:14
	Want it to be done and so.	00:34:15
	So and I appreciate you letting me wait.	00:34:17
	Because I wanted to see what the legislature was going to do, because I've heard rumblings that they were.	00:34:20
	That somebody was going to submit a vote.	00:34:24
	End it now and so.	00:34:27
	There was no reason. There would have been no reason to even.	00:34:29
	Discuss it.	00:34:32
	So thank you for allowing me to wait.	00:34:33
	Awesome. All right. I just need a motion.	00:34:38
	You don't need to.	00:34:46
	Resolution number if you're going to deny it.	00:34:47
	Do the motion to deny.	00:34:50
	You just moved to deny.	00:34:52
	The request.	00:34:54
	I'd move to deny that request.	00:34:56
	All right, we have a 1st 5, right? Can I get a second?	00:34:58
	2nd.	00:35:02
	Second by Sarah. Any discussion?	00:35:03
	All right, all in favor, I'll do a roll call. Just, Oh yeah, roll call.	00:35:06
	Say aye, right?	00:35:09
	Aye, aye, Marty.	00:35:11
	Hi, Sarah.	00:35:12
	Bye. Alright, Thank you, guys. We'll get going.	00:35:14
	All right, we will move on to our next agenda item.	00:35:17
	That is the bond parameter.	00:35:21
	Bond parameters resolution.	00:35:22
	20/25/15 and David Robertson.	00:35:26
	With Lewis, Robertson and Birmingham will present.	00:35:29
	Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to be here.	00:35:37
	I think, Eric, did we get that presentation?	00:35:41
	Hold up by chance?	00:35:43
	OK, as he's pulling that up.	00:35:46
	My first of all, just wanted to introduce ourselves. We are LRB public finance advisors.	00:35:48
	I work with Laura Lewis and as the.	00:35:53
	Financial advisors to the city.	00:35:56
	And fiduciaries were just wanted to be clear.	00:35:57
	We're not here driving the bus, we're here to advise the city and to give you independent advice along the way so.	00:36:00
	The other thing we wanted to mention is in working with the staff.	00:36:07
	And others. We've received some information along the way.	00:36:12
	And it's been very helpful. We love.	00:36:15
	Receiving information from the public.	00:36:17
	From the from the governing body and from staff to make sure on whatever endeavor we're moving forward that we're, we're meeting	00:36:19
	the needs of the city and the residents. So we really do honestly welcome the feedback, we welcome the input and really want to	00:36:24
	integrate that all in this whole process. So.	00:36:29
	I think Eric's pulling that up. I can speak from it on my laptop as well.	00:36:35
	Can I share my screen? I can do it from here if that.	00:36:52
	I'm one second off, OK.	00:36:54
	Should we count 1?	00:36:58
	2/3.	00:37:00
	Perfect. Thank you.	00:37:04
	OK. Next slide please.	00:37:05
	OK, so today we've gathered a lot of thoughts and I've heard various comments. And so we wanted to kind of just get out of the	00:37:10
	gates and just make sure.	00:37:14
	We had all the information in front of us, so I'm going to try and hit on all of these points and then incorporating the comments	00:37:18
	I heard from the.	00:37:22
	From the public today and see if I can't hit on all of these points.	00:37:27
	Talk about introductions, the goals, water, sales, tax, revenue, bonds.	00:37:30
	Other tenants.	00:37:35
	Other partners?	00:37:36
	Potential financing structure.	00:37:38
	The next steps, the primary resolution and then the next steps after this. So next step please.	00:37:40
	OK, as we get into this, some of the major participants that will be engaging with is the City Council, city staff.	00:37:44
	MAG is one of the potential partners with the city on helping fund this project.	00:37:52
	And then also, as we understand that this project is going to have various components, there could be input from.	00:37:57
	Additional tenants how that could incorporate into this project. Also there's potential ways of renting or leasing the.	00:38:03
	Potential parts of this new facilities out and so there's ways of kind of incorporating all those items some of the major	00:38:11
	professionals that we were working with.	00:38:15
	I failed to list Jamie here as the city's attorney, but obviously he'll be a big portion of this. But Laura and I'll be working as	00:38:20
	the financial advisor fiduciary to.	00:38:25
	To the city.	00:38:32
	Randy Larson and Brad Patterson, and I'm grateful for Brad being here as well. They're acting as bond and disclosure council to	00:38:34
	make sure that the bonds qualify for tax exempt bonds, which is the lowest cost of borrowing, but also making sure that the bonds	00:38:40
	are issued just within the realms of all the legal requirements.	00:38:47
	And as the Bond underwriter, the.	00:38:53
	So LRB, we are the financial advisor to the city.	00:38:57
	But then John Crandall and Matt Dugdale from Stifel, they actually interact with the investors and they actually sell the bonds.	00:39:01
	So there's various.	00:39:05
	Kind of roles here and even though like Stifel they represent.	00:39:10
	They represent both the city.	00:39:14
	On selling the bonds where you want to have the lowest interest rates.	00:39:16
	And looser covenants.	00:39:19
	Investors want high interest rates and strict covenants. They kind of straddle that and talk about in both of those worlds. So	00:39:20
	they have a natural inherent conflict of interest. That's not a bad thing. Is this simply the way the market is? And so we as your	00:39:26
	fiduciaries, we help represent you on that side.	00:39:31
	Next slide, please.	00:39:36
	OK, I know there's various goals and there's goals. We welcome any feedback to make sure that these goals are are.	00:39:38
	Obtained and set properly.	00:39:46
	Just one of the comments was from the.	00:39:48
	From this Adam about.	00:39:52
	The needs of the city, right? Because you have the needs of the city today, you also have the needs of the city in the future. And	00:39:55
	how do you pay for that?	00:39:58
	We understand. We've.	00:40:01
	I'm not down grading anyone's comments. It's interesting because you have the tug and pull. Because the cheapest way for paying	00:40:03
	for any project is to pay cash for that.	00:40:07
	Well, to save up enough time to actually pay for something, equate a long time. So you think of your house, right? You need a	00:40:11
	house. You want the lowest cost.	00:40:15
	There's no feasible way of paying cash for that project, so the other way is incurring debt. Sometimes debt can be a good thing is	00:40:18
	you write on your personal finances.	00:40:23
	You don't want any debt because you're the only one paying for that, right?	00:40:27
	Well, on.	00:40:29
	On publicly owned assets.	00:40:31
	Well, the person who is paying for it today.	00:40:34
	Someone who's using it 10 years from now, 20 years from now.	00:40:36
	What's the equitable way of having everyone pay for that? So we try.	00:40:39
	So debt can be or bonds can be a good a good term. So is that something that the city wants to to do?	00:40:42
	If we go down that route, if issuing bonds or incurring debt.	00:40:48
	You want to make sure there's there's different components. Not only do you want the lowest interest cost.	00:40:53
	But you want flexible terms.	00:40:57
	You want to have what's?	00:40:59
	What's good for the city on their cash flow?	00:41:01
	What's the right of securing that debt, unlike your personal finances where you are the one securing it?	00:41:04
	There's different ways of securing bonds, so we'll pay attention to that.	00:41:09
	We do want to pay attention to.	00:41:13
	Be clear, these bonds, how they're sold, they will be fixed rate bonds. There's not going to be any variable rate. There's not	00:41:15
	going to be any reset.	00:41:19
	They'll be fixed for the life of their bonds.	00:41:22
	There may be a period of time that we ramp up the debt service or bonds, how they're sold. They do have various interest rates	00:41:24
	because different people buy different bonds along the way.	00:41:29
	But the interest rate will be fixed at closing. They will not adjust. They will not change.	00:41:33
	If the city wants to refinance their bonds.	00:41:38
	Great, but at closing they will be fetched for the life of the.	00:41:40
	So I want to understand that correctly. Sure.	00:41:44
	I think this is in.	00:41:47
	Each year the.	00:41:48
	It will be a fixed rate.	00:41:50
	Correct when you close.	00:41:51
	However, when you go to the market.	00:41:53
	One year might be.	00:41:55
	4.7.	00:41:57
	Year 3 and 4 might be 4.8.	00:41:58
	Clear this could be 5 point.	00:42:01
	Whatever, and.	00:42:03
	Usually the market is based off of.	00:42:05
	The lower payment that they're holding right like.	00:42:08
	Is it so like we're wanting a smaller payment?	00:42:11
	Up front.	00:42:15
	Because we don't have a lot of cash.	00:42:16
	Test can I resend it a different different.	00:42:18
	So when you still, when you go like on your home mortgage, assuming everyone's had a mortgage in their life, right?	00:42:21
	You go to the bank and say, hey, I'm getting a 30 year mortgage.	00:42:26
	Well, the average life of that mortgage is going to.	00:42:29
	Be like 22 or 23 years on average. So then the bank's going to say, OK, they're going to peg that to whatever index they say and	00:42:31
	your average interest rate for your life of your your mortgage.	00:42:37
	And today's mark is what, 6 1/4 so.	00:42:42
	Every principal payment that you have is targeted at six and a quarter paper.	00:42:44
	Make sense, right?	00:42:49
	When you sell bonds.	00:42:50
	Each year you're going to.	00:42:51
	Principle that's going to amortize. So there's going to be a set payment that every year is going to be amortized.	00:42:53
	Depending on what kind of investor you are. Like if you're a bank, if you're a, trust, if you're a.	00:42:58
	Money management. If you're an insurance, you buy bonds at different parts of that.	00:43:03
	Amortization schedule.	00:43:08
	So yes, each principal payment will be assigned a coupon and a yield.	00:43:09
	That is fixed at closing and this it's locked in.	00:43:14
	And then what you do is you have all of those payments like you said.	00:43:17
	The earlier ones have a lower interest rate, the lighter ones have a higher straight. You average that all together to get what's	00:43:20
	called your tick or your true interest costs and that's kind of what we refer to as your overall interest rate.	00:43:25
	So you don't use the word.	00:43:32
	Variable you just say a different rate for every year.	00:43:33
	I guess I'll.	00:43:36
	It's not. It's about the same fixed rate. It's fixed a quote. Yeah, sure.	00:43:38
	It's I have.	00:43:44
	Interrupt me if I'm getting this wrong because I'm not an expert here.	00:43:47
	I have some number of.	00:43:51
	Shares in this bond.	00:43:54
	Get bought and sold.	00:43:56
	If 100% of them get bought on day one, they hold them for until maturity.	00:43:58
	The rate never changes.	00:44:02
	Is that true?	00:44:04
	Yeah, OK. Yeah. So you see where I'm trying to, Yeah. So app closing, but app closing, 100% of the bonds will be sold.	00:44:06
	And they will have an interest rate assigned to them.	00:44:15
	So so Mr. Holdaway's comment.	00:44:17
	Yes, each bondholder may have a different interest rate.	00:44:19
	But we know that, but they're fixed at closing. You will know what it is and they're locked and then it cannot be changed.	00:44:23
	Yeah, there are maximum interest rate that.	00:44:31
	It could go to.	00:44:33
	Like it wouldn't go any lower than 3%, I would go any higher than 6%.	00:44:35
	It's kind of something I've heard.	00:44:40
	So yes, in the parameters resolution.	00:44:41
	Well, and we'll get to that. We're going to set certain parameters.	00:44:44
	Because of the timing of how kind of the bond sales work.	00:44:48
	That we will delegate the.	00:44:51
	The authority to a couple of people and they'll say OK, as long as we can price bonds within this within.	00:44:54
	At the maximum interest rate, as long as you can price the bonds lower than that.	00:44:59
	Then we can go ahead with the transaction. If those interest rates exceed that amount, then we would not proceed with the	00:45:03
	transaction and come back to the council saying hey.	00:45:07
	The market ski wampus or whatever reason, we need to readdress that.	00:45:11
	That maximum interest rate.	00:45:15
	And I think in the documents at 6%, right?	00:45:16
	Correct.	00:45:19
	Today, in today's market, we estimate that the.	00:45:20
	Current and we'll get into what will influence this.	00:45:23
	But in the mid 4% range and you say, well, why do we set a higher interest rate?	00:45:27
	Part of it is there's.	00:45:32
	Going back to that pricing, there's couponing and there's different just.	00:45:34
	Places in the market.	00:45:37
	If we get into this process.	00:45:39
	And.	00:45:40
	All of the things in the market kind of.	00:45:42
	The market, the rates go up instead of having to come back and get the approval.	00:45:44
	We just set that maximum interest rate.	00:45:48
	There's.	00:45:50
	Whose purpose is for doing that?	00:45:52
	OK.	00:45:56
	When we're going through the financing and doing the structuring and all of that, we seek to have flexibility around the	00:45:59
	partnering because the city could be partnering with MAG, leasing other property, renting their property.	00:46:05
	I'll be working with Brad and his partner Randy to make sure that we comply with all the the requisite tax requirements.	00:46:12
	And this making sure we have the flexibility on how the property can be used not only today but going into the future.	00:46:21
	Next slide, please.	00:46:26
	One of the questions was saying well.	00:46:28
	Vineyards the only one that has used sales tax to finance their projects. I just wanted to put this to bed.	00:46:30
	You're not the only one. This is a very active, very common use of projects to finance projects.	00:46:36
	Like Mill Creek, they just use sales tax revenue bonds to finance.	00:46:43
	A very similar project for Mill Creek is just, you know, it's and you Salt Lake County.	00:46:47
	Very similar type of project, kind of city center.	00:46:54
	Let's use dynamic ways of using these properties, but this is just a list of.	00:46:57
	Of handful of projects, what's going back to October 2020?	00:47:02
	So just we wanted to let you know that lots of people, lots of communities use sales tax revenue bonds to finance their projects.	00:47:06
	And there's a variety of projects, but a multiple.	00:47:14
	I'm blanking right now. I don't know if Brad knows offhand, but there's a.	00:47:16
	I know Mill Creek used sales tax revenue bonds to finance their city center.	00:47:20
	City in Utah County because I couldn't find one in Utah County.	00:47:24
	Orem comes to mind. Oh sorry that if you use sales tax or for the city Center for the City Hall.	00:47:29
	Right, but that's not for their city center.	00:47:37
	Yeah, I can't remember in in Utah County.	00:47:39
	Do you remember Brad offhand?	00:47:42
	I know the Aura can use those for purpose in their library and they're you might need to come to the oh sorry, he's coming.	00:47:44
	Yeah, five years ago they did fill their library. I think Spanish Fork might have as well.	00:47:52
	Yeah, I see a Spanish work, one for 58 or 58 million.	00:47:56
	Keep trying to sleep, yeah?	00:48:02
	Madam Mayor, members of Council, Brad Patterson, I'm with Gilmore Bill. We were bonded disclosure council to the city in terms of	00:48:04
	the types of principal projects that have been financed. The the sales tax revenues are used for a variety of different types of	00:48:09
	projects.	00:48:13
	It's not not uncommon to see a City Hall finances way city offices to be financed this way.	00:48:19
	And so.	00:48:25
	We see them used for a variety of different purposes and I think that the Orem financing, we did that for purposes of the	00:48:27
	expansion kind of the renovation of their City Hall and their library, their whole city kind of.	00:48:32
	Complex over there.	00:48:38
	My memory serves me right.	00:48:39
	Sure.	00:48:41
	I apologize.	00:48:44
	And my wife told me that all the time.	00:48:47
	And I just use it for yeah.	00:48:49
	She always is.	00:48:52
	So thank you, Brad.	00:48:54
	OK. Next slide please.	00:48:57
	OK. Sales tax revenue bonds when we hit on a couple of these points, but yeah, like I said, the the rates will be fixed for the	00:48:58
	life of the bonds.	00:49:02
	When we look at the amortization, we look at.	00:49:07
	A couple different points. We look at the useful life of the facilities because we don't want to finance and have bond payments	00:49:10
	passed.	00:49:13
	When you're having to replace the facilities, we look at the cash flow from the city to say hey.	00:49:16
	What period of time do you want to repay these bonds?	00:49:21
	Right now we've been targeting kind of that 25 to 30 year period.	00:49:24
	We've seen it as short as 20 years and as long as 35 years, but kind of a 25 to 30 seems to be kind of that sweet spot.	00:49:28
	And the reason we have the project amounts, I think that some of the initial budgets for the city have come in closer to 30.	00:49:35
	The reason we have 35 million in there is before a couple of reasons.	00:49:44
	The city has some equity or some funds that they could apply towards this project for not only the city but also the RDA to go	00:49:50
	towards some of the architectural and some of those. We're working with MAG on figuring out what their budget is. They've given us	00:49:56
	a range of how much money or how much equity they could contribute to this project at closing. So still working through all of	00:50:02
	that and we're still working through this kind of what the uses of the property could be.	00:50:08
	You ask, Well, why do?	00:50:14
	Did we put $35 million in the in the project?	00:50:15
	While we fully estimate that the actual bonds will be kind of in the 20.	00:50:19
	$25 million range until we hear back from MAG on what their level participation is and working with the city on how much the city	00:50:23
	wants to contribute. We did 35 because we anticipate that the project is going to be in that 30 to 30.	00:50:30
	2 range kind of in there.	00:50:37
	But then the city has to fund the debt service reserve fund.	00:50:40
	Any kind of capitalized interest, the transactional cost?	00:50:43
	We estimate that that could be a little bit larger. So that's why we give them some flexibility on that front.	00:50:47
	So any kind of equity that come in from MAG?	00:50:52
	Or from the city would be would be applied immediately to to reduce the amount of bonds that we have to issue.	00:50:55
	One of the questions was saying, well, when can we refinance or refund these bonds?	00:51:01
	Unlike your your mortgage when you can kind of repay or just refinance your mortgage whenever you want.	00:51:06
	Volunteer what is called call protection, meaning investors want to know that for a period of time.	00:51:11
	That they're going to return, have a return on their investment. We've seen that as short as one or two years for specialty type	00:51:17
	of financing.	00:51:20
	For a public offering, that's typically somewhere between 7 and 10 years.	00:51:24
	And what that means is, is the city could refinance those bonds ahead of that period of time.	00:51:28
	We're gonna have to make those investors whole through that call period. So you typically you don't and if you refund the bonds	00:51:34
	before the call date, it's on a taxable basis.	00:51:38
	And the reason I say taxable or tax exempt?	00:51:43
	Taxable refers to the interest rate.	00:51:46
	If the investor has to pay income tax on the interest earnings, they come in.	00:51:48
	They charge a higher interest rate because they.	00:51:53
	It costs them more because they're paying in.	00:51:56
	Income tax.	00:51:58
	Well, for investors that don't pay income tax.	00:51:59
	On those bonds because those bonds qualify for tax exempt purposes.	00:52:02
	They can offer to buy those bonds at a lower interest rate. So that's why we have to sell bonds for tax exempt purposes and that's	00:52:06
	usually for anything that's for a public good.	00:52:10
	And so the bonds can be refunded at that call date on a tax exempt basis, usually starting in somewhere between year 7 and 10 and	00:52:15
	will determine that once we price the bonds.	00:52:20
	When we go to structure the bonds.	00:52:25
	For the first year or two, depending on the construction period.	00:52:29
	We're going to do what's called capitalized interest, meaning you're going to borrow from.	00:52:33
	In the bonds, you're going to borrow enough money to make the interest earnings.	00:52:37
	Sorry to make the interest payment.	00:52:42
	For that construction period.	00:52:44
	And so it's kind of so that way the city, while it doesn't have use of the facilities.	00:52:46
	They're not paying on that debt and so.	00:52:50
	While interest will begin to accrue as soon as you close on their bonds.	00:52:53
	The city will not make payments through that.	00:52:58
	That capitalized interest period, so that's usually somewhere between one and two years. And So what kind of work through that	00:53:01
	usually then the year after that capitalized interest you have an interest only period.	00:53:07
	So you'll pay interest and then starting in the second year after that then when you start to amortize your principal.	00:53:13
	We haven't determined what that would look like yet for a couple of reasons. A we, we're still working through, we're in the early	00:53:19
	stages of this process.	00:53:23
	Again, we're working with MAG to figure out their level of participation and so we'll need to figure out. Then there's the third	00:53:28
	component is.	00:53:31
	If there is some private use of these facilities.	00:53:35
	There may be some bonds are issued on taxable basis, we'll need to kind of factor that all in.	00:53:38
	Early estimates based upon some of the early numbers is the interest only component could be 900,000 the full payment.	00:53:44
	What we'd like to do is then what most likely is ramp up the debt service. So to start off 900,000.	00:53:52
	And then as the use of facilities and different.	00:53:57
	Factors influence, we've kind of ramped that debt service up until the full debt service payment would be about 2 million. Again,	00:54:03
	some of that would be would be split between the city and MAG on a roughly 2 thirds, 1/3 basis.	00:54:09
	And it will just work through all of those kind of cash flow needs that will also be influenced by the the cities ability to.	00:54:17
	To be to repay this debt, we've had some preliminary discussions with the city on what their debt capacity is and just want to	00:54:23
	have all of those components as we structure the debt. But that has not been determined, that has not been finalized that we will	00:54:27
	do that here in the months to come.	00:54:32
	Next slide, please.	00:54:37
	I just wanted to add context because we.	00:54:38
	Said something a little bit incorrect.	00:54:40
	On the Aurum 1.	00:54:43
	And to get context.	00:54:44
	Orem's total budget.	00:54:46
	Is 152 million.	00:54:48
	Well, just to make sure we're building the same.	00:54:51
	$30 million building.	00:54:53
	We're 12,000,952.	00:54:56
	Also on their sales tax bond that was voted on in 2018 by voters, it wasn't.	00:54:58
	Done by the Council like this.	00:55:04
	Where we would be approving it.	00:55:06
	And it was in conjunction with their.	00:55:08
	Rec Center.	00:55:12
	And their theater that was connected to the library, not their City Hall. But.	00:55:13
	I get what you're saying is.	00:55:17
	People have.	00:55:19
	Built structures.	00:55:20
	But I think it's unique that.	00:55:21
	The citizens wouldn't be voting on it.	00:55:23
	So the citizens on in our world.	00:55:27
	The only bonds that need a citizen voter for general obligation bonds. So general obligation bonds pledge the full faith and	00:55:31
	credit of the entity, which are repaid from property taxes.	00:55:36
	All revenue bonds in Utah do not need, well, I know they don't need, but I'm just saying a norm they did.	00:55:41
	They did go out to vote and they they wanted to ask.	00:55:45
	Voters, Yeah.	00:55:48
	Just like we could, we could say, hey, let's go out and vote.	00:55:49
	Even, but they did use sales tax, they got that.	00:55:52
	But they were. They were building a huge new rec center.	00:55:55
	That was a massive expense that was going to add.	00:55:58
	They were gonna have to.	00:56:00
	Pay for that.	00:56:01
	That wasn't just a sales tax.	00:56:02
	I don't think that was just a sales tax plan. The rec center.	00:56:04
	I think that was a general obligation bond, so we need to look into that.	00:56:07
	Uh-huh. Yeah.	00:56:13
	I apologize. I have the record right here because we worked on that particular transaction and the 2019 deals was a general	00:56:15
	obligation bond.	00:56:18
	They just messaged me and said.	00:56:25
	That it was voted on by the public of America.	00:56:27
	Yeah, you'll have to excuse me. I've gone through some deal meld here in the last couple of years.	00:56:30
	Yeah.	00:56:35
	But I think it is important to see the comparison in.	00:56:38
	A $30 million building by 1 entity and a $30 million or 32.	00:56:41
	And there's a.	00:56:46
	Their entire budget is 152 million.	00:56:47
	Versus our 12 million?	00:56:50
	And I I.	00:56:53
	I'm not familiar with.	00:56:55
	That, yeah. Is that comparing?	00:56:56
	The total budget is that comparing just sales tax. You want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples and all of that total or	00:56:59
	budget.	00:57:02
	2425 is 152 million.	00:57:07
	I don't know if it's a.	00:57:10
	Sorry.	00:57:11
	I don't want to interrupt you.	00:57:12
	I think that we often forget too, that Orem did build a City Hall and library like in the 70s.	00:57:15
	It also costs them a lot of money for the time.	00:57:22
	So I don't think it's unusual for a city.	00:57:25
	Growing to build.	00:57:28
	A City Hall, be it whatever price it is.	00:57:30
	And the fact that we're partnering, I think we need to keep in mind.	00:57:33
	That our number is closer to the low to mid 20s.	00:57:36
	Just for clarification sake.	00:57:39
	Just so that we're my goal is that we're all talking about the same thing. I want us all understanding the numbers, whether or not	00:57:41
	we agree on it.	00:57:45
	What the agree on the idea?	00:57:49
	Let's make sure we're all saying.	00:57:51
	And that's a very, I think, yeah, if we could all build under 2018 numbers, we'd all elected those construction numbers back	00:57:54
	again, right?	00:57:57
	And I think the hard thing that you mentioned, I like what you how you phrase that is.	00:58:00
	You have to look at it like we're using it today, tomorrow.	00:58:06
	We could wait for 20 years to save up enough money to.	00:58:10
	Pay for this in cash.	00:58:14
	But who knows what the cost is going to be in the future? So those are very good observations.	00:58:15
	OK, when we go into bonds, the unique things about cities.	00:58:19
	Are you have a variety of different funding sources you have?	00:58:23
	I'm not gonna list them all, but.	00:58:27
	The ones that we're going to focus on, you mentioned property tax.	00:58:28
	That goes in general fine sales tax.	00:58:31
	General fund, franchise tax, identifying amongst everything else.	00:58:33
	When we go through the bond analysis.	00:58:37
	On sales tax revenue bonds.	00:58:40
	And the thought process here that's been?	00:58:43
	That you've been used is you actually can can combine your sales tax revenues and your franchise fee revenues and use those as	00:58:46
	collateral for your bonds. You said, well, why would you do that?	00:58:50
	The bondholders.	00:58:56
	Do not have the right to come and just.	00:58:57
	Say hey City.	00:59:00
	You need to use your general general fund to repay me.	00:59:02
	On these bonds.	00:59:05
	They can only tap those sales tax and franchise the revenues for that repayment of those bonds.	00:59:06
	So you can see here between those two different sources.	00:59:13
	The total revenue is then fiscal year 2024.	00:59:15
	Was little over $4 million. The reason that's relevant is when you go and do your comparison of what your debt service payment is.	00:59:19
	Bondholders want to see what's called debt service coverage.	00:59:27
	Meaning for every dollar of debt that you have, what are your net revenues available to make that debt service payment?	00:59:30
	And for sales tax and these types of revenues because they are fluid.	00:59:35
	And the city cannot directly.	00:59:40
	Control them as we all know.	00:59:41
	The cities. The sales tax the city receives.	00:59:43
	Rate is pretty much set.	00:59:46
	You know the the major influencers of those are.	00:59:48
	Continued development or kind of point of contact in the city or who is buying goods within the city and the population, those are	00:59:51
	the two major factors. So as the city continues to grow.	00:59:56
	And develop you're going to.	01:00:00
	That would influence for sales tax revenues to go up.	01:00:02
	So as we structure this.	01:00:06
	LRB did a very this preliminary look.	01:00:08
	We looked at saying, OK, what is your current sales track revenues today?	01:00:11
	Franchise.	01:00:15
	Let's do some very basic.	01:00:16
	Assumption saying hey.	01:00:17
	Historically, you've seen.	01:00:19
	So a percentage increase.	01:00:21
	Let's be conservative there for the next couple of years.	01:00:23
	And then be Uber conservative in the future saying that's 4% for a handful of years, 1% handful of years.	01:00:25
	How's that going to look to an investor? So that's why we started off on that side. This being conservative, we did not do a fees	01:00:31
	that we did not do a.	01:00:34
	A market study is saying what businesses are coming in trying to predict.	01:00:39
	What businesses are coming in? We did not make any assumptions of saying this, that or the other. We simply looked at.	01:00:43
	Baseline, 2024.	01:00:49
	We increased this at 4 and 1% or whatever those numbers were.	01:00:50
	Does that show well for the investor? So we did not do a thorough market studies. Don't want, don't want that to be clear.	01:00:54
	We're assuming what grocery store or what businesses were coming in.	01:01:00
	Or predicting.	01:01:04
	Population growth is simply based off of that baseline of 2024 to say hey.	01:01:07
	Kind of city do this.	01:01:11
	We still reserve the right, we are still working closely with staff to understand.	01:01:12
	OK. In your 2024 audit?	01:01:17
	You had a large transfer out of your general fund into your capital projects fund.	01:01:19
	That potentially could help.	01:01:24
	Make these payments. I'm not saying the city has all of that money. We understand you have capital needs and there's going to be	01:01:26
	future capital needs and growth of the city.	01:01:30
	All we're all we're doing is a preliminary analysis out of the gates.	01:01:34
	Is this plausible that the city could afford this and the preliminary analysis is yes?	01:01:37
	We could do that. We still reserve their work, right to work with this staff and we see your feedback to say, hey, what's going to	01:01:42
	influence that number? Can the city really afford this?	01:01:46
	We're still early in that process, but want you to know we're aware of it. There's going to be influencing factors and we'll pay	01:01:51
	attention to all of that. Like I said, I don't want to rehash it, but like Mag, whatever they say, that's going to influence this	01:01:55
	whole discussion because they thought.	01:01:59
	Very beginning where we may want to prepaid or.	01:02:03
	Pay our debt off earlier, well, no, maybe want to do a 20 year, there's going to be all of those items in there, so.	01:02:06
	Ought to be said Sales tax is a nice fluid number.	01:02:12
	We can use that and there's a variety of factors that's going to influence that number over the years.	01:02:16
	Would would a market analysis be part of the?	01:02:22
	The more detailed.	01:02:26
	Analysis. When we go through this, you don't have to do 1.	01:02:27
	Because you do have so much coverage right now.	01:02:31
	And there's.	01:02:33
	Account quote other projects right now, but I know there's a lot of projects on the docket right now I think.	01:02:35
	I'm going to butcher names, but I know there are a lot of projects coming in. So I don't think we have to do that because	01:02:40
	investors.	01:02:42
	Are very comfortable with that if you wanted to do that one just for your own sake and letting your citizens know.	01:02:45
	That was good. That would be fine.	01:02:52
	That will take a handful of months to get that completed.	01:02:54
	But we can do whatever you need.	01:02:58
	Can you back up inside?	01:03:00
	So, uh.	01:03:01
	When meeting with Laura that.	01:03:02
	3.2 we already spend in 2024 and same with the 8.	01:03:04
	35 we already spent.	01:03:09
	So the say you already spent it.	01:03:11
	What do you mean?	01:03:14
	Meaning it was spent on.	01:03:15
	City services and stuff for last year, right?	01:03:17
	Like for other, well, things.	01:03:20
	If you look at the audit, you also transfer 2.7 million auto general fund for other capital projects and stuff, right. But we	01:03:23
	spent, yeah, we spent it on things, right.	01:03:27
	You didn't spend every dime of that, no.	01:03:33
	The vast well capital projects.	01:03:35
	Not every time. I I we've got too much left of the year.	01:03:40
	Well, that was last 2024 though, so you still received more money this year, so.	01:03:44
	Well, in the preliminary discussions with Christie.	01:03:49
	Of course they couldn't be here tonight.	01:03:52
	She intimated yes, there was enough.	01:03:55
	There's enough fluidity in that number that they could help make that payment.	01:03:58
	The bond payment.	01:04:01
	Right, but.	01:04:03
	We OK, I.	01:04:04
	I I don't like that answer though, because it's.	01:04:06
	There's only a couple.	01:04:09
	What 10?	01:04:11
	2020.	01:04:11
	There's not a lot left in what we.	01:04:12
	What you're saying is, is that we bought some big things.	01:04:14
	And in future years, maybe we won't buy other big things.	01:04:17
	So we could then dedicate it for that is what you're saying?	01:04:20
	Honestly, without the projects, what I'm saying is on the surface the city has the cash flow to support the project.	01:04:23
	Right, but.	01:04:32
	But then you'd have to dedicate that money to that.	01:04:34
	Well, you haven't dedicated that money to something. So I guess the previous years we were dedicating that to something.	01:04:38
	Else is what I'm saying so.	01:04:44
	All those other things that you did, would there would be even a gap.	01:04:46
	Yes and no. So the city has to dedicate those. Well, it doesn't have. You can't dedicate it in both places.	01:04:51
	Right. So, but if you have a capital project that you already paid for in theory not going to have that new capital project	01:04:56
	tomorrow.	01:04:59
	Correct.	01:05:02
	Some of it is capital projects, but the vast majority isn't capital project. Yeah, it could be.	01:05:04
	Whatever services the city provides, right there was a lot of things that weren't.	01:05:08
	Capital projects in there, right?	01:05:12
	And what I'm saying is, is that now you would all of those things moving forward over the next couple years, you wouldn't have	01:05:14
	that because you're now putting them in first place to pay for that.	01:05:18
	So I guess my.	01:05:22
	I'm not trying to be argumentative, but devil advocate, right?	01:05:24
	Is that?	01:05:27
	You're going to have future needs of the city.	01:05:28
	So is this city center a future need of city that you want to prioritize but I.	01:05:30
	I agree you're prioritizing it.	01:05:35
	But then you also have to account for that the city is going to continue to receive increased sales tax.	01:05:36
	Based on historical trends.	01:05:42
	Right. And I think that's where you could base yourself on something because.	01:05:44
	What the information that Laura gave is that there will be a only a teeth that there will be a.	01:05:47
	$296,000 increase.	01:05:52
	From one year to the next. So I give it that no, so that that was just based upon.	01:05:55
	And she wasn't predicting or trying to project, she was saying.	01:06:00
	If you use the simple interest rate to show investors saying hey.	01:06:04
	Here's a realistic.	01:06:08
	The increase of that sales tax over the next couple of years, what that could be, she wasn't trying to predict or tell you.	01:06:09
	This is what your availability is. That's simply based upon 2024 number. Yeah, just kind of a projection of that's where I feel	01:06:15
	like doing the market study would actually answer a lot of those questions.	01:06:20
	Like it for our community.	01:06:26
	Well, I think before.	01:06:27
	You need to go there. I would like to have.	01:06:29
	More time to work with staff to say.	01:06:31
	Instead of just saying, oh, we spent that money. Well, yeah, you spent that money, but how did you spend that money?	01:06:33
	And what are those reoccurring costs moving forward to say?	01:06:38
	Does the city need that money going forward?	01:06:41
	Or, uh.	01:06:44
	Is the city.	01:06:45
	Comfortable saying yeah, we need this city and I'm not here to say yay or nay.	01:06:46
	They say well.	01:06:50
	The city center now is a priority. We need to make room in our budget to make these payments.	01:06:51
	So I think that first of all we need to say how was the money used?	01:06:56
	In past.	01:07:00
	Is that going to be a continued need of the city?	01:07:01
	To come back, to stay.	01:07:04
	Well, yeah, you have the capacity to make these payments.	01:07:05
	And I think that that we're in agreement. We're in agreement on that that.	01:07:08
	To me.	01:07:13
	It's one thing to be able to say, yes, we can afford the payments with the cash flow that we have. It's another to say.	01:07:15
	We can afford the payments with the cash flow that we have.	01:07:21
	And operate our city and I think it's the answer to both of those that we need to make sure that we have.	01:07:24
	Totally agree and or you know, because we did a fire station.	01:07:29
	We're talking about.	01:07:33
	Ice skating rink or a roller skating rink, or, you know, the lakefront master plan or the.	01:07:34
	Corridor.	01:07:40
	There's all these.	01:07:41
	You know, big projects that are going through and it's like.	01:07:42
	That has been something that.	01:07:45
	You know, we've been dreaming all of these other things.	01:07:46
	You eat that up.	01:07:49
	With only a $290,000 increase on the 4%.	01:07:50
	And you're showing us a $2,000,000 payment, not the 900,000.	01:07:54
	We're short 1.4 million.	01:07:58
	It's like we've got a.	01:08:00
	Have a conversation of.	01:08:02
	What else are we gonna cut?	01:08:04
	Or.	01:08:05
	What taxes are we going to increase to get to that?	01:08:07
	$1.7 million shortfall.	01:08:09
	Between the I correct I think.	01:08:12
	To be respectful, I think you're confusing some of the terms and some of the numbers that were shared of saying.	01:08:15
	It's not that it's like you just have $290,000 increase.	01:08:20
	There's all kinds of components that influence that factor.	01:08:23
	And I think we need to do that now, working with staff to say.	01:08:27
	How did you use your sales tax? How did you use general fund? What?	01:08:30
	Numbers were there.	01:08:34
	And they say, hey, you're stealing it from one party to pay another project.	01:08:36
	Well, the city is evolving and what, what, how does the city want to use its money, I guess is all I'm saying. So, well, I'm just	01:08:39
	really glad that you're that we're openly talking about.	01:08:43
	It was spent.	01:08:47
	Then it'll move over to here and you can't use it with two hands, so it's like.	01:08:49
	We've got to have this conversation for the next 20 years. This is not going to be available. Completely, completely, completely	01:08:53
	agree.	01:08:56
	So we won't know.	01:08:58
	Excuse me, we don't know.	01:09:00
	I guess what I'm wondering is when we sign or we?	01:09:04
	Finalize the bond.	01:09:06
	Will it be? I mean, I've seen with my mortgage I know exactly what I'm paying.	01:09:08
	For the next 30 years, every month. Oh, you'll know Exactly. Yeah. So we'll see. Like, this is how many months we'll be paying.	01:09:13
	For how many years we'll be paying 900,000? This is how many years we'll be paying more? About 2 million. So we'll actually have a	01:09:19
	really good map of OK at this.	01:09:24
	Point it.	01:09:28
	You know, if it was too soon, then that would be really concerning if we were paying to my end after the first year.	01:09:30
	That might not be as reasonable with our other projects we want to do, but if it's something what we're paying 900,000 for the	01:09:36
	first few years or however many years.	01:09:40
	That might make it look more reasonable, so I don't feel like we can really decide.	01:09:44
	Until we know what that looks like exactly. Yep. And we want to structure that to say.	01:09:48
	And also.	01:09:54
	Well, we want to.	01:09:56
	Make.	01:09:58
	Assumptions moving forward of what that sales tax?	01:10:01
	There's going to be different levels of that, right? Because there's going to be just the.	01:10:04
	What do you?	01:10:07
	Think is going to happen in a city like what? What's reasonable this?	01:10:08
	You can say, hey, that's what do we want to show investors of being conservative.	01:10:12
	And then also having some buffer there to say, hey, heaven forbid everything goes sideways, these tariffs go to 50% and we can't	01:10:16
	buy anything anymore.	01:10:20
	Does the city still have the capacity to make these at a basic level? So yes, we will run different scenarios to make sure we're	01:10:25
	very comfortable and structure the debt so that you have the runway to absorb this and you have the runway.	01:10:31
	Say hey do you need to ship some help?	01:10:37
	Projects around like when Mr. Holdaway is saying.	01:10:38
	We have capital needs of the city.	01:10:41
	Unfortunately, you're growing pains, right? Because you're trying to figure out what can we build now? What do we need now?	01:10:44
	What's going to serve the city not only today, but 10 years from now?	01:10:49
	But also you have other capital you're gonna have to prioritize and budget for these projects.	01:10:53
	So I.	01:10:57
	Councilwoman Cipuentes made a comment that was making me think in the way you answered it was making me think about it, something	01:10:58
	that we were talking about just a little bit earlier.	01:11:01
	If we know the full payment schedule and amortization schedule upfront. Uh-huh.	01:11:05
	When we were talking earlier about rates.	01:11:10
	And that it's fixed rate, but then in terms of?	01:11:12
	The.	01:11:16
	I'm still not 100% clear on how that works.	01:11:18
	So what I want to?	01:11:21
	Understand or at least get.	01:11:23
	A comment that makes me feel more comfortable with it.	01:11:25
	Is uh.	01:11:27
	What it was making me think is that the rate that a bondholder earns is not necessarily.	01:11:30
	Influenced by the payment that we're making.	01:11:36
	That's kind of what I heard and I'm not sure if that's right or not.	01:11:38
	No SO.	01:11:41
	Then then I'm having a hard time reconciling that a rate somewhere could change that we don't know what it is yet.	01:11:44
	Think of a different way.	01:11:50
	Instead of thinking of all the different bond payments, state that you're Mr. Clausen saying, hey, I want to buy bonds.	01:11:51
	And you want to buy?	01:11:57
	Whatever bond you is.	01:11:59
	I have.	01:12:00
	$100,000 and I'm gonna say, hey, I don't need $100,000 for 10 years, so I'm gonna buy a bond in 10 years from now.	01:12:01
	And that $100,000 is going to be invested for 10 years. You know in 10 years that you're gonna get your principal backs. You're	01:12:08
	not gonna receive any principal until you're 10.	01:12:13
	And you're going to earn that.	01:12:18
	At like 3 point.	01:12:19
	Two, 7%.	01:12:21
	So you know for your your $100,000 that you're receiving 3.27% over the next 10 years?	01:12:23
	All the bondholders.	01:12:29
	They have their schedule of what their and their principal is going to amortize.	01:12:31
	And that all of that average together is what we'll report back to you. So everyone is. That makes sense. Yeah.	01:12:34
	I liked.	01:12:42
	Councilwoman Days.	01:12:43
	Question about.	01:12:44
	When you come back.	01:12:45
	And we vote on it.	01:12:47
	So you go out to the market.	01:12:49
	You'll get the parameters. You'll come back and say hey.	01:12:52
	900 thousand the first year, 1.5 the second, whatever.	01:12:55
	To mine and we will then vote.	01:12:59
	And do an administrative vote.	01:13:03
	On a.	01:13:06
	We are because we preauthorized you tonight.	01:13:09
	On what those parameters are?	01:13:12
	Then we can always back out.	01:13:15
	Through an administrative vote.	01:13:17
	Later.	01:13:18
	Once you go to the market.	01:13:19
	No SO.	01:13:21
	Over what we're doing today is a super parameters.	01:13:23
	And so that will give us the parameters that we can execute the transaction.	01:13:26
	We will work closely with staff to make sure that they keep you apprised of the process because the next few steps I'll talk. I'll	01:13:30
	talk about the steps here in a few minutes.	01:13:34
	But once we go out to market and sell those bonds, we're locked and loaded and we're.	01:13:38
	You can't back out after time after.	01:13:42
	Now, after today, yes, you can back out.	01:13:44
	We're not going to sell the bonds for.	01:13:47
	A couple of months yet, right? But this is the first step in the process because there has to be a public hearing process,	01:13:49
	drafting documents, getting ratings. This is simply the first step in that process.	01:13:54
	The city can still yes, if we.	01:13:58
	So yeah, here's the process. So.	01:14:00
	Over the next, we've identified our project city center.	01:14:03
	We will engage with the various partners.	01:14:07
	We adopt the bond parameters to kind of like I said, there's different noticing and different time constraints that we have to	01:14:10
	address.	01:14:13
	And the bond parameters gets that ball rolling.	01:14:17
	We'll draft a variety of fun bond documents that you can.	01:14:19
	That we will read that talk about the security qualifying for the tax exemption and all of that.	01:14:23
	We meet, we meet with the bond rating agencies.	01:14:29
	Unlike your.	01:14:31
	Unlike your personal finances again.	01:14:34
	Your your credit score is.	01:14:36
	760.	01:14:38
	Depended regardless if you're buying a house or credit card or.	01:14:40
	Or a car, right?	01:14:43
	Well, the city.	01:14:44
	If you remember you the city sold water and sewer revenue bonds. Or was that last year or two years ago? I forget.	01:14:45
	You have your rating on those bonds. Well, that rating is only for those series of bonds.	01:14:52
	Now we're going to go out for sales tax revenue bonds. You actually get a rating on this one. Cities can have multiple different.	01:14:57
	Credit ratings.	01:15:02
	So that's where the rating agencies us for.	01:15:03
	Once we get the rating back, then we'll disseminate an offering document to the investing public.	01:15:05
	Will price the bonds in close so the city can pull the plug on this process for the next.	01:15:09
	Three months, call it, and then once. But once we go and price the bonds, then we're locked and we'll close and we can't back out.	01:15:15
	Before you locked, you come back and ask us for a vote.	01:15:19
	No, tonight is the you're delegating all of the authority to price and sell these bonds today. We can come back and provide you	01:15:23
	updates along the way if you like.	01:15:27
	But tonight, we'll delegate all the authority to the Pricing Committee.	01:15:32
	OK. So this was the question I asked to Jamie and I don't know if it goes to you or our attorney. Is tonight the legislative vote	01:15:35
	to authorize this or the executive?	01:15:39
	Or the administrative vote.	01:15:44
	On these phones.	01:15:45
	Is this a legislative action or an administrative?	01:15:47
	So the.	01:15:51
	The statute on referendum on this.	01:15:53
	You're referring to.	01:15:55
	Is you're trying to.	01:15:56
	Trying to get.	01:15:57
	An answer on weather tonight is the.	01:15:58
	Potential for.	01:16:00
	For you to lead a referendum on this particular action if it doesn't go the way you want, right?	01:16:02
	So well forward to know what my action is as a council member.	01:16:07
	So what you're asking is for the city attorney?	01:16:12
	Let's just make an assumption here.	01:16:15
	That.	01:16:17
	The vote goes to approve this tonight.	01:16:18
	And then so as representing the city.	01:16:21
	The voice of the city has been made.	01:16:24
	And So what you're asking is this help?	01:16:27
	Potentially to help me enter.	01:16:29
	Create a conflict of interest between myself and.	01:16:30
	The majority of the City Council.	01:16:33
	So.	01:16:35
	The that particular question.	01:16:36
	They're in the referendum statute. There is a very specific point in time where the city attorney weighs in on whether or not the	01:16:39
	issue is referable.	01:16:42
	So it would be premature for the city attorney to weigh whether it's me or Jamie sitting here.	01:16:46
	To weigh in on that particular question because.	01:16:50
	I'm going to have to.	01:16:53
	Myself or Jamie or somebody, the city attorney in that role.	01:16:54
	Will have to weigh in on that later.	01:16:57
	So.	01:16:59
	There's not a preview or a.	01:17:00
	You know.	01:17:02
	It depends on.	01:17:03
	A number of factors that go into it.	01:17:04
	Sometimes it can be legislative, sometimes it can be.	01:17:06
	Administrative.	01:17:09
	So why have a public hearing on May 14th of tonight is all done? Said and done.	01:17:10
	Why wouldn't you do that? Because the public can still come in and and you can talk to the really heavy.	01:17:16
	Madam Mayor, Members of Council.	01:17:23
	Mr. Holdaway, the reason to have a public hearing is there's a requirement under the Utah.	01:17:27
	Municipal Bond Act that requires to have a public hearing before you can issue bonds.	01:17:32
	And that's why the public hearing is held.	01:17:35
	Yeah, but it would. It would.	01:17:39
	Let me give you a little bit of history.	01:17:40
	So Brad may have some more history on this one. I think he's four days older than older than I am.	01:17:42
	But it used there used to be kind of a 2 step process. We used to have a parameter resolution, then you come back for the final	01:17:48
	bond resolution.	01:17:52
	The tricky thing?	01:17:55
	There becomes.	01:17:56
	When you get ready to sell bonds, we can't have, we can't sell bonds and come back to the council to say, well, did you approve	01:17:59
	this?	01:18:02
	The bond sale.	01:18:05
	Because if you grow and sell bonds.	01:18:06
	In our world.	01:18:08
	Selling bonds is very much a handshake and reputation basis, so if we weigh on sold bond, I got everyone to commit to buy the	01:18:09
	bonds.	01:18:13
	And then also the City Council reneged on it.	01:18:16
	It would be very bad for the city trying to sell bonds in the future.	01:18:18
	So now what you do is you get this approval.	01:18:22
	You go through the public hearing to say, hey, the public. Is there in any comments on this one that allows you to move forward	01:18:25
	along the process, if there's any, any process, any.	01:18:30
	Period along the way. The city doesn't want to do this.	01:18:35
	You're not saying you have to do the project tonight. You're not saying you will do it. You're simply saying, hey, we're	01:18:38
	delegating the authority to have this process that if everything continues to line up.	01:18:43
	That we will continue to move forward, but if there was a future time that.	01:18:48
	The city didn't want to do it.	01:18:51
	This will just not go forward with the project. It looks like we've established that.	01:18:53
	Between now and then you can.	01:18:58
	Change how you feel about it and there will be a process that goes through and we now know.	01:19:00
	When our attorney can weigh in on it. So let's continue with the discussion.	01:19:06
	OK, I I do want to clarify.	01:19:09
	On I think it's important for the Council members to understand that if we for some reason.	01:19:12
	After the public hearing or in any of this process?	01:19:20
	What steps would be required?	01:19:23
	Make I don't think there's an official action.	01:19:25
	Like a council process? Do we just like e-mail you and say hey?	01:19:29
	We want to look at this again.	01:19:33
	Well, we do know that this is going to come on to the agenda on May 14th if you approve it. It's in the.	01:19:35
	What is it called the recommendation?	01:19:42
	Or the motion, excuse me.	01:19:44
	So you know that this will be on the agenda and if you change your mind during that time, you will have a public hearing time to.	01:19:46
	Make a different decision.	01:19:53
	So because it's on the agenda, that would give the opportunity.	01:19:55
	That would give you that opportunity to make a motion to say.	01:19:59
	This isn't what we're expecting.	01:20:02
	My concern is more of.	01:20:05
	I I don't.	01:20:08
	I don't want to disapprove it.	01:20:11
	Without understanding what our payments are.	01:20:13
	I don't want to just.	01:20:16
	Like I want there to be a process. Can we vote to have something in the agenda?	01:20:17
	To have an update on this so that we are being.	01:20:22
	Were fully aware of what we're doing over there that's fine I.	01:20:25
	I want to add in. Go ahead Pam.	01:20:29
	The 14th will strictly be a public hearing that we know.	01:20:31
	Other motion made at that one.	01:20:35
	No, but, but it is an opportunity to make a different decision if we wanted to pull back that.	01:20:38
	Presents an opportunity where it's coming to the public.	01:20:44
	So, yeah, so you'd have to make a motion to put it on the next agenda after that. So if you want to put it on, yeah, then that	01:20:47
	might be what you want to do. I guess I just don't want this to be like.	01:20:52
	OK, we approved it.	01:20:57
	And we?	01:20:58
	Talked about three to five months and then all of a sudden.	01:20:59
	You know, at day 90.	01:21:03
	Bonds are being sold and I'm like.	01:21:05
	Crap. I missed that three months. So Marty, just to clarify.	01:21:07
	Because it's going on that agenda.	01:21:11
	If you wanted us to expand that agenda item, I'd be happy to do that. And then if you wanted to put it on, we'll be in a public	01:21:13
	meet. I mean, well, it'll be on the agenda so you can.	01:21:17
	Put that into the next meeting. So.	01:21:22
	You'll have time before it goes according to that timeline. Just to clarify, that's only a month and a half away.	01:21:24
	Will we have all the numbers?	01:21:30
	No, what I would suggest, and I want you to be 100% this. These are big decisions. We don't want to force this down your throat	01:21:33
	and we don't want to just.	01:21:37
	Ramrod this down if you want.	01:21:41
	Monthly or whatever period of time or some kind of reporting.	01:21:43
	Status. We're happy to do that if you want just to hey, here's A1 pager of the status of where we're at.	01:21:47
	This is kind of how things are. This is how the market is. This is how.	01:21:53
	The feedback from Max we're happy to provide down our.	01:21:56
	On a realistically regular basis.	01:21:59
	Otherwise, I feel like we're.	01:22:03
	I just, I would really appreciate that as a council member because I don't want to just say.	01:22:06
	You know, OK, $35 million check.	01:22:12
	It feels kind of like a blank check in a way. I know it's.	01:22:14
	At a Max of 35 million.	01:22:18
	But if things are adjusted in mags, maybe only pain?	01:22:20
	Instead of 1/3, they're paying 25% of something. I I want to be fully appraised to all of this public equally.	01:22:23
	It needs to be so I think this is a really important part of the discussion we had a little bit earlier.	01:22:32
	Where people are asking, well.	01:22:37
	Are we going to have to prioritize? Are we going to look at our economics?	01:22:39
	And I think David did a nice job saying.	01:22:44
	The standard operating procedure for this is to set.	01:22:46
	These parameters.	01:22:49
	And then to go back and find all of that information.	01:22:51
	And that's just part of the process.	01:22:54
	So to follow this process, Marty, the way that we'll do this to ensure what you're saying is that the next meeting.	01:22:57
	We can expand the agenda item.	01:23:04
	Or, uh.	01:23:06
	We can.	01:23:07
	If we don't have it then.	01:23:08
	You can request another agenda item and we'll keep adding it in.	01:23:10
	Until.	01:23:14
	That time comes and that'll be our process.	01:23:15
	I can't remember, are you on a?	01:23:17
	Do you meet every two weeks, twice a month, or once a month? Twice a month?	01:23:19
	Yeah, we, we're, yeah.	01:23:23
	Yeah, we can. Harry wants to report back. We'll report back.	01:23:24
	Yeah. And I think what we'll do is.	01:23:28
	We.	01:23:30
	The City Council meets with the city manager.	01:23:31
	Before these meetings and we'll let them know if it's ready and then you can decide when you want to put it on the agenda.	01:23:33
	So.	01:23:38
	It's a good process.	01:23:40
	We already have a launching point for the next meeting.	01:23:42
	Great.	01:23:44
	I think not only.	01:23:46
	Because we.	01:23:48
	Can't spend the same dollar twice.	01:23:50
	And we're talking about a.	01:23:52
	$2,000,000 payment.	01:23:54
	And.	01:23:56
	It's going into our.	01:23:57
	3 point.	01:23:58
	For 3.2.	01:24:00
	$1,000,000 sales tax.	01:24:03
	I think the study of what we spent.	01:24:06
	On not only one year ago, but.	01:24:10
	The last two years so it gives you.	01:24:12
	An understanding of was it just capital projects?	01:24:15
	But then also a forecast of.	01:24:18
	What are all the other capital projects that we have promised voters?	01:24:21
	Just in writing, I'm thinking many of them.	01:24:24
	But OK, could that even fit in?	01:24:27
	And then?	01:24:29
	The other thing is.	01:24:30
	Is.	01:24:31
	It's not. It's not the other thing. It's the.	01:24:33
	The increase is only.	01:24:38
	Tonight or we're hoping 4% of 290.	01:24:39
	Our 4% would be 290,000.	01:24:43
	OK if.	01:24:47
	If we're gonna say we're not gonna cut these capital.	01:24:48
	Projects or whatever.	01:24:51
	Because we've made a promise.	01:24:53
	We're not going to increase sales that well. We can't increase sales tax because we're at the state Max sales tax. So it's Max.	01:24:55
	I'm so clarified, Jake. Everybody like when I looked at.	01:25:01
	The rest by counting everyone's at the mat.	01:25:04
	So.	01:25:07
	Right. So we can't do that.	01:25:09
	But for.	01:25:12
	Or short 100 and or 1.7 million. So it's.	01:25:13
	We've made promises.	01:25:17
	Socially, we're not going to increase any other taxes, so it's like.	01:25:19
	We have to look at what we spend.	01:25:23
	But then we also have to go.	01:25:25
	How do you not raise any other taxes if you're short 1.7 off of?	01:25:27
	If the increase is only.	01:25:31
	300.	01:25:33
	OK. Now the hoping that it increases 300K and I want to clarify and when we I want to put together a schedule so we can clarify	01:25:33
	some of these components so we're not.	01:25:38
	Conflicting comment not.	01:25:43
	Making sure that all the terms are straight in front of us and we're.	01:25:45
	The cash flows and all of that.	01:25:48
	I think that would be helpful because saying restored or.	01:25:51
	Saying that there's promises out there or.	01:25:54
	Basing math off of parameters that we're not actually going to, we're unlikely.	01:25:58
	To know that increases what Laura gave us.	01:26:03
	Yeah, but it's.	01:26:08
	Based on 4% growth.	01:26:10
	That's not my number. What? David? Oh, go ahead, Eric. Did you have something? Yeah, I just want to.	01:26:12
	Reiterate, because it was already said tonight that.	01:26:17
	That the 4% and then the 1%.	01:26:20
	Was a worst case scenario.	01:26:22
	It was not intending to capture.	01:26:24
	Any of the.	01:26:27
	Of the known growth that's happening in the city here over the next few years.	01:26:28
	It did not incorporate the grocery store or the hotels or the.	01:26:32
	Or the other developments that are coming into the city.	01:26:36
	It was simply.	01:26:38
	A feasibility study to determine what our debt and service coverage was.	01:26:40
	And so.	01:26:44
	Going back to that 4% as though that is a.	01:26:46
	A number to lean on.	01:26:49
	Is probably not the right number to be leaning on.	01:26:51
	Our sales tax growth over the last few years has been.	01:26:55
	Substantially greater than that, 12% to 20% per year.	01:26:59
	And so doing a study that you're talking about, although that would come at an extra cost to us.	01:27:03
	Maybe of great benefit because I think that.	01:27:08
	What we are.	01:27:11
	Experiencing and what we anticipate coming in the near future is.	01:27:13
	Not just, right? Well, not only that, but it's not. There are a lot of numbers that are being thrown out that are.	01:27:18
	What is it called?	01:27:27
	Yeah, their estimations or their ideas or their parameters. For instance, it's like a credit card.	01:27:29
	And you have.	01:27:35
	You know, $4000 on your credit card, but you only ever spend $100 on it, but you could spend $4000. And so somebody's saying, Can	01:27:36
	you believe we are spending 4000 but.	01:27:42
	We actually only spend it for gas and so we only spend $120.00 a month.	01:27:48
	Those are the numbers and the ranges that are being thrown out right now, and they're not accurate.	01:27:52
	It's like, and when you say, well, there's a six.	01:27:57
	Percent interest rate at a $35 million.	01:27:59
	And building, but when we're talking about the market and the numbers go down that the.	01:28:04
	You know 4.5.	01:28:10
	Those numbers are pretty far off, but additionally.	01:28:12
	We're in the middle of architecture and design right now, so.	01:28:14
	We're going through this process and.	01:28:18
	We don't even know the.	01:28:20
	Portion of the cost.	01:28:21
	That the city will assess because.	01:28:24
	This isn't a.	01:28:26
	Government 1.	01:28:27
	Building.	01:28:29
	That we're talking about this is a.	01:28:31
	Shared center where Vineyard is inserting space inside it.	01:28:33
	To house the people who work here and give the daily services that we all expect to see.	01:28:38
	But we don't know those costs.	01:28:45
	So I think Marty stated it well that we'd like to see those actuals come back. And then David said it well that he liked to put.	01:28:47
	Natural number seat together so that.	01:28:55
	We can state proper numbers.	01:28:58
	For the public and.	01:29:00
	For us, we'll have to make this decision.	01:29:01
	OK.	01:29:04
	Let's move off this topic though, because.	01:29:06
	We can't quote those numbers at this point.	01:29:08
	I wasn't going to quote. I was only going to actually agree with Eric in that.	01:29:11
	The 4% sales tax.	01:29:15
	Was larger.	01:29:17
	We actually saw a total revenue increase of about 33%.	01:29:18
	Of other taxes or whatever. So I think that is.	01:29:22
	You know.	01:29:26
	There's different businesses top golf with a huge.	01:29:27
	That was a huge one. That's why I agree. Like you could see businesses.	01:29:30
	But The thing is, is Laura didn't face that. She's like.	01:29:34
	We're not going to base it off of that. And I was like.	01:29:37
	Well, OK, I'd love to see those numbers beforehand.	01:29:39
	But at the same rate.	01:29:42
	Even though we saw a 33% increase.	01:29:44
	We saw.	01:29:46
	A 43% increase.	01:29:48
	And spend so.	01:29:50
	Yeah, revenue went up, but our spending went way up. And so, but my scare is.	01:29:52
	You're going to go take that money when our spending like we hire another.	01:29:58
	Deputy Recorder, we got, we have this growth of all these things that we need and we're locking it in.	01:30:02
	Yeah. So that's why I'm afraid of that 1.7 million capital.	01:30:08
	I'd like to see that study from staff and LRB to see what those actually looked like because I know, yeah, Councilman Holdaway,	01:30:11
	you and I were going back and forth on this a little bit today and I was looking at.	01:30:16
	Different numbers and I got completely different percentages and.	01:30:22
	One of us is inaccurate in our interpretation. I honestly don't know who.	01:30:26
	Yeah. So I would love to see.	01:30:30
	Lauren, I would love to see that study happen.	01:30:32
	So that we.	01:30:34
	Get some.	01:30:36
	More accurate.	01:30:37
	Resolution to well and I think it's important to remember that she was facing it off of conservative estimates like.	01:30:38
	Eric was saying so that we can.	01:30:45
	With how we're spending.	01:30:49
	And we can be thoughtful about putting those numbers forward.	01:30:51
	And while we do that, maybe it would be good to pull up what we actually spent those dollars on and where the funds came from and	01:30:54
	how they're separate.	01:30:57
	And like for instance, some of the money that.	01:31:02
	Went out last year. Was the pay down debt early?	01:31:05
	And close out certain things or.	01:31:08
	There's some things that came from property tax that's totally outside of this, So what does it look like?	01:31:10
	We can add that to this. I think the final, the clarifying item too is.	01:31:15
	The city's not going to have a debt service payment for the next couple of fiscal years.	01:31:19
	Not first payment is going to be.	01:31:23
	Like in today's interest rate less than $1,000,000 so.	01:31:25
	To be saying hey we're paying $2,000,000 out of the gates isn't accurate because the first payment that's not going to be for.	01:31:28
	Years to come, so there's still some ways to absorb this and that's why I said.	01:31:33
	The structuring and thought to still go into this process so but there I can remember there's any more slides.	01:31:38
	I have to say I agree with the market study for Brett. Thanks. That's a good idea.	01:31:44
	I think we talked about the parameters. Like I said, the parameters sets the ball in motion.	01:31:49
	There, there's some reason, public hearings, there's some contestability periods that we have to just kind of get out, get out of	01:31:55
	the way.	01:31:58
	This is a very standard.	01:32:02
	This is how.	01:32:04
	By saying it's right or wrong, but this is how it's done.	01:32:05
	Statewide and nationwide. So this is.	01:32:08
	How we're going about it? Super parameters? I still remember the conversion.	01:32:11
	Sitting Richard Scott's office years ago. I have when this first started so.	01:32:14
	Next slide, please.	01:32:18
	OK. I think we've kind of hit on all of these, but just to reiterate.	01:32:20
	If the City Council wants to proceed with this.	01:32:25
	We'll get the ball rolling. We'll coordinate with staff on working with the numbers.	01:32:27
	My guess is we'll probably hang back.	01:32:33
	Drafting documents until they come back to the city. Just saying hey make sure this all cash flows.	01:32:35
	We have a call not to put Mag on the spot, but we have a call with Mag here.	01:32:40
	The middle of April to understand their level of participation.	01:32:45
	I know the staff working with the architect and contractor because we want to make sure we have what that.	01:32:50
	What the what the project looks like and getting all those construction contracts in place?	01:32:57
	And then working towards getting the documents in place so we can go and secure the bond rating.	01:33:02
	I think those are the major next steps.	01:33:07
	And I think Wilbur's report back on a timely basis is to make sure that the Council has the information and timely basis.	01:33:09
	All right. Thank you for the discussion tonight. I know.	01:33:16
	There's different thoughts some.	01:33:19
	So it makes the world go around, but we welcome, we really do welcome the feedback from everyone to make sure everyone's	01:33:21
	comfortable.	01:33:23
	Thank you, Council. Do you have questions?	01:33:26
	I'd like to say thank you for being so.	01:33:32
	Prepared and patient with all of us.	01:33:35
	You're most welcome. There's big decisions in in.	01:33:38
	I have learned about the resolution, but maybe that one needs to wait.	01:33:41
	I'm curious if we can amend this.	01:33:46
	To include the.	01:33:49
	To make the market study.	01:33:51
	Acquired.	01:33:54
	Do you want to make it required or do you want to come back to it after? We find the numbers from working with staff so that if	01:33:56
	they have what they need and you can see the.	01:34:00
	The cost from.	01:34:05
	The incoming economic development that we don't have to pay the additional funding for the study.	01:34:06
	That's a good question.	01:34:16
	To me that that it would come down to how much the additional study would yeah, I'm I'm curious the cost of.	01:34:17
	Doing a market study? What if we bring that dollars?	01:34:23
	What if we bring Brent, what if we bring that on back to the public hearing?	01:34:26
	Then, if we need to, we can.	01:34:32
	Add it onto something future.	01:34:35
	I mean, if you guys want to do it now, that would be my recommendation.	01:34:37
	But if you guys want to, I'm OK with that. I just know that.	01:34:40
	For my part.	01:34:44
	I'm comfortable with the parameters.	01:34:46
	But I'm.	01:34:48
	Not 100% there.	01:34:49
	For actually selling the bonds without seeing.	01:34:51
	More details on Not Just the Bond.	01:34:55
	Structure but on how it affects.	01:34:59
	The city's operations, do you guys feel like you can?	01:35:01
	Gather information that would be meaningful for Brett's comment without this study. Or do you need us to?	01:35:05
	We can. We can definitely provide.	01:35:11
	Meaningful information to address it and then.	01:35:14
	In my in my from my experience, yes, but I understand.	01:35:17
	You have a responsibility to your constituents, so I believe that we can provide enough information.	01:35:21
	To at least address it and then we can maybe at that point decide, hey, we need more information.	01:35:25
	I guess my question about the resolution is.	01:35:30
	I just, I know we've talked about.	01:35:34
	Not selling bonds until we've discussed it over and over.	01:35:36
	I don't want to legally bind myself.	01:35:41
	Into hey, legally on paper in this resolution, I did say you guys could sell bonds.	01:35:44
	But.	01:35:49
	So I don't know if we can make an amendment to the resolution that clarifies.	01:35:50
	That we are.	01:35:54
	That we are not.	01:35:56
	Like these are the bond parameters that we're not ready.	01:35:57
	To just say they can sell the bonds.	01:36:00
	I think you have a path moving forward and it's this one.	01:36:03
	In order for them to get all of the studies done and have the.	01:36:06
	Ability to do what they need to do.	01:36:09
	It would be best, I think, if we move forward and then if you don't like where the numbers are headed.	01:36:12
	Let's pull back on it.	01:36:17
	Because your hands.	01:36:19
	Truly aren't tied in this, which I think were made really clear.	01:36:20
	I want to say something else too. I understand what you're saying, the consternation here.	01:36:24
	The professionals here, we're not like.	01:36:29
	Driving our own bus, we.	01:36:32
	Only started this because the city reached out to us, so we're only going to act.	01:36:34
	If you want us to act so I understand you're.	01:36:38
	I I really respect that and I actually feel really comfortable and confident working with LRB.	01:36:41
	I think more than anything else, I just take.	01:36:46
	What I legally?	01:36:49
	Contractually vote on.	01:36:50
	Seriously. And so I don't know if our attorney wants to pipe in.	01:36:52
	But I'm just wondering.	01:36:56
	I don't want it. I don't enjoy voting yes on something.	01:36:58
	When I.	01:37:02
	But just like, you know, just kidding. We're not really.	01:37:03
	You know what I mean? I don't want it to be something that I don't want there to be any confusion on what the intentions are here	01:37:06
	today. I guess think of a different way. This is just the first step in the process.	01:37:11
	Like we're not. We're not to the final.	01:37:16
	Right to the one yard line, 1 yard line yet?	01:37:18
	This is simply in our world because we're dealing with tax-exempt securities.	01:37:21
	With the jump through a number of hoops and this is simply the first hoop to get that.	01:37:25
	To get the circus going and I, I do appreciate that. I guess I was just hoping the attorney would well, and the other question too	01:37:28
	is where, what do you need clarity on?	01:37:33
	I want to understand the payment.	01:37:38
	The payment schedule.	01:37:42
	I want to understand the bond rate, what they're likely going to be.	01:37:43
	More a little bit more concise.	01:37:47
	This is a really big commitment and I don't want to go in.	01:37:50
	Just with those rose colored glasses, I want to go in with all the facts and information.	01:37:54
	To make sure that I can back my votes so this vote.	01:38:00
	Gives them the ability.	01:38:05
	To go into you that information and I understand that, but I also heard earlier that this vote.	01:38:07
	Gives them the.	01:38:12
	Permission to sell the bomb.	01:38:13
	So I need to I want to hear from.	01:38:15
	Our attorney to understand that better.	01:38:18
	I actually think that question is best answered by.	01:38:20
	That Brad.	01:38:24
	Mr. Mayor, members of the Council.	01:38:25
	I think there are a lot of different ways you can go tonight.	01:38:28
	You can go ahead and adopt the resolution in its current form.	01:38:31
	You could table the resolution if you wanted to, or you could go ahead and make an amendment to the resolution to make you more	01:38:34
	comfortable such that.	01:38:38
	Either you.	01:38:42
	Add to the list of the designated officers so that you can be part of the desert one of the designated officers that gets to see	01:38:43
	those terms.	01:38:47
	Or we can just also bring it back.	01:38:50
	At another council meeting as well.	01:38:53
	I will tell you that.	01:38:55
	If the bond terms are going to be subject to a council approval, there is some.	01:38:57
	Kind of uncertainty associated with that.	01:39:03
	Just given kind of what market conditions are and given what underwriters conditions are, underwriters requirements are.	01:39:06
	And so there may be a little bit of flexibility that you have to give up.	01:39:13
	In order to do that. But once again, that's.	01:39:17
	For you to decide that's not my.	01:39:20
	Decision, that's a policy decision for you to decide. So I think you can proceed in a number of different ways. One of the things	01:39:22
	this does as David said.	01:39:26
	This gets the ball rolling. It does a couple of different things.	01:39:30
	First of all, allows us to go ahead and.	01:39:32
	Published various things.	01:39:34
	Start certain contestability periods. It also allows us to go ahead and reimburse.	01:39:36
	Ourselves or the city allows the city can reimburse itself from bond proceeds for purposes of federal income tax.	01:39:41
	It starts that clock rolling as well. And so it's just a matter of what you would like to do and.	01:39:48
	Mayor, what if you?	01:39:54
	I'm just going to say.	01:39:57
	To to Brad's point.	01:39:58
	There is.	01:40:00
	Representation on that on.	01:40:01
	A list of designates the bond committee.	01:40:04
	I I don't know if you want to.	01:40:09
	Arrange for that.	01:40:11
	Make up tonight.	01:40:12
	It designates the mayor a council member.	01:40:15
	And the city manager, if I'm not mistaken.	01:40:18
	And so.	01:40:21
	One of those individuals. You can make it however you decide.	01:40:22
	So one of the things we could do which we could do that.	01:40:26
	And Brett said from the Finance Committee, so it might be a good idea to put him on there.	01:40:31
	But one of the things that we could do.	01:40:35
	Is vote us through.	01:40:38
	And then if you feel more comfortable to say the next time we're voting or before bonds go out.	01:40:41
	That you expand.	01:40:47
	Your opportunity for the agenda on the May 14th.	01:40:49
	That way you're still meeting your timelines and you could put that stipulation in so it allows them to move forward.	01:40:53
	But then it gives you kind of a.	01:40:59
	A barrier that says hey, I'm expanding this.	01:41:01
	And I want to see it again before this goes out.	01:41:04
	So it doesn't.	01:41:07
	Competing with anything.	01:41:09
	But it also.	01:41:10
	Stop setting gives you.	01:41:11
	Multiple steps in between.	01:41:13
	And you said contestability timelines. Could you describe what are all the contestability?	01:41:18
	Things that could happen.	01:41:23
	Is that like referendum stuff?	01:41:26
	Yeah, in addition to that.	01:41:30
	In addition to the referendums, there are.	01:41:32
	The ability to file a lawsuit.	01:41:35
	Against.	01:41:37
	The bonds.	01:41:38
	That would join the issuance of the bonds.	01:41:40
	So that's that. That's particular.	01:41:42
	Portion of the statute that provides that if.	01:41:46
	The lawsuit isn't filed within a certain period of time.	01:41:50
	That they're forever barred from doing that.	01:41:53
	It is beneficial to bondholders.	01:41:54
	To know that their bonds aren't going to be challenged, that their bonds are going to be valid and binding, gives them some	01:41:57
	certainty and helps out helps to market the bonds.	01:42:01
	But those are the 2 two main things, a lawsuit and a referendum.	01:42:05
	This question isn't for you, but it's it's more for Pam being that we move this meeting to this week because you guys are going to	01:42:10
	be out.	01:42:13
	If you're out of the office, the citizens still get their seven day period. How does that work? How would they reach you? If	01:42:17
	you're out of the office, they still get that period. They can just turn it in at the office so they'll.	01:42:22
	Date and time stamp it for us and.	01:42:27
	And e-mail it to us so we can get going on the process.	01:42:29
	Would you guys be out all next week?	01:42:34
	Yes, we're out all next week.	01:42:38
	Are you out tomorrow?	01:42:40
	Tony, does it have to be in tomorrow?	01:42:43
	Yeah, I'll be in the office.	01:42:46
	Tomorrow, half day.	01:42:47
	Yeah, till well.	01:42:49
	Till the office is closed at noon.	01:42:51
	OK, thanks.	01:42:53
	Hey any other comments?	01:42:57
	All right, if there are no other.	01:43:06
	I'll say that I think this is a.	01:43:08
	A good opportunity to move forward so that we can.	01:43:11
	Get these numbers brought before us and.	01:43:14
	And really research this and decide if this is the way that we want to move forward as a city and make sure that we are	01:43:17
	prioritizing things.	01:43:21
	The right way.	01:43:25
	I do want to make a.	01:43:27
	Comment for the public.	01:43:28
	We have been talking about this for several, several years.	01:43:30
	Probably since 2022.	01:43:34
	And figuring out ways to prioritize and and time things.	01:43:36
	For the public and one of the things that we've been doing is.	01:43:40
	Spreading.	01:43:43
	Then getting trailers, moving people into different locations.	01:43:44
	And doing everything we can to make sure that we're timing these things at the right time and even now.	01:43:49
	Instead of building.	01:43:54
	A building that fits. We are saying, you know.	01:43:55
	Hey, let's create.	01:43:58
	Partnerships.	01:43:59
	Really get creative here.	01:44:01
	To create a very financial.	01:44:03
	Financially feasible way for us to.	01:44:05
	Get the space that we need.	01:44:08
	To continuing.	01:44:10
	To continue to deliver.	01:44:12
	Base services, because that's what we do in Vineyard is we deliver base.	01:44:13
	Services.	01:44:17
	And limited recreation.	01:44:19
	But we need places for our staff.	01:44:20
	Resources and facilities.	01:44:24
	That we can continue to operate as we grow and this is a really creative.	01:44:26
	Great solution for our community.	01:44:30
	That we.	01:44:32
	Can look into more and make sure that it's an affordable opportunity for us, but.	01:44:33
	It's definitely something that we need because we.	01:44:37
	Metal alcoves and hallways and three and four and five people to a room and.	01:44:40
	Switching spots and we're about to lose the Conference Center.	01:44:45
	So we we want to continue to deliver that service.	01:44:49
	That you guys really want in our community for quality of life. With that I will.	01:44:54
	Ask the City Council for a motion.	01:44:59
	Don't be. Sigh.	01:45:16
	If you have more questions, ask more questions, otherwise to table it.	01:45:18
	Anyone.	01:45:23
	Did you make a motion to table it?	01:45:24
	Yeah, I mission to kill it.	01:45:25
	All right, we have a motion to kill it.	01:45:27
	Is there a second?	01:45:30
	OK, there's no second.	01:45:34
	Can I get another motion?	01:45:36
	I believe in you.	01:45:42
	Yeah, on you.	01:45:44
	I move to adopt A resolution 252025-15.	01:45:46
	With the stipulation.	01:45:51
	That we added to the.	01:45:52
	May 14th agenda as well.	01:45:56
	Is that how?	01:45:57
	So here's here's a couple things that you'll need to do. You'll move to adopt the resolution to 2020.	01:45:59
	And I'm 2025 Desk 15 as presented.	01:46:04
	You'll set the public hearing for May 14th.	01:46:07
	2025.	01:46:10
	Then you'll expand the opportunity to discuss.	01:46:11
	And make a vote on this again.	01:46:15
	Not a vote on this, but kind of.	01:46:18
	I mean it is about.	01:46:20
	You'll just expand it for discussion and action.	01:46:21
	Before it goes out to bot.	01:46:24
	Selling the bonds.	01:46:26
	Was Marty's.	01:46:27
	Opportunity that she wanted to add on to it.	01:46:28
	And you can say root.	01:46:32
	Because.	01:46:34
	We have a first, Brett.	01:46:36
	Did we want to add Brett as a?	01:46:38
	Was not a stakeholder or a.	01:46:41
	Designated Officer, just for record, yes, I would like that friendly amendment. I would like to add that.	01:46:43
	Amendment as well. All right. Thank you, Marty. I have a first slide, Brett, can I get a second?	01:46:51
	Second Second by Sarah.	01:46:56
	Any discussion? Can I get a clarification? Does that make it?	01:46:58
	With your legal understanding, does that make it so you guys can go to the market and move or you're just waiting two more weeks?	01:47:02
	So with those stipulations, the stipulation gets the ball rolling.	01:47:09
	My Senate will come back to the City Council on May 14th and present.	01:47:12
	Numbers, and so all the various numbers we talked about.	01:47:16
	And if the City Council likes it, we'll continue chugging forward. And if not, we'll stop.	01:47:19
	Yeah, it does not stop.	01:47:23
	Tip all right.	01:47:26
	Shake nay.	01:47:28
	Brett aye.	01:47:30
	I'm Marty. I'm Sarah.	01:47:31
	Aye, all right.	01:47:33
	Thank you for coming today.	01:47:35
	Thank you very much. Thank you.	01:47:36
	Have a good night.	01:47:37

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Event transcript
	All right. Thank you for joining us today.	00:00:01
	April 3rd, 2025. The time is 603.	00:00:04
	We're going to start out with an invocation of the Pledge of Allegiance and.	00:00:09
	Sarah will go ahead and lead us in that.	00:00:13
	Right. Dear Father in Heaven, we come before Thee at the beginning of this meeting and ask my spirit to be with us and.	00:00:20
	That that will help us too.	00:00:26
	Make it productive and useful.	00:00:28
	That we'll be able to.	00:00:31
	Address concerns and.	00:00:33
	Relay the facts of.	00:00:35
	The things happening in the city and.	00:00:37
	We pray that.	00:00:39
	Will I have?	00:00:40
	A heart of.	00:00:42
	Seeking understanding and.	00:00:43
	Collaboration.	00:00:45
	We loved you again and we're grateful.	00:00:46
	For thy spirit and.	00:00:48
	Thy guidance and inspiration. And we say these things in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, Amen.	00:00:50
	Alright.	00:00:58
	One nation under God, indivisible.	00:01:08
	All right, we'll go ahead and start out with public comments. This is a time for you to address the Council with things that are	00:01:25
	not on the agenda that you wanted to bring.	00:01:29
	Forward.	00:01:34
	If you want to, go ahead and.	00:01:35
	Leak at the podium. State your name.	00:01:36
	You'll have two minutes.	00:01:39
	And share your concerns with us.	00:01:40
	Kim Cornelius Villas.	00:01:52
	Kept kind of a low profile over the last several weeks.	00:01:57
	I don't like just.	00:02:00
	Talking to hear myself talk. So I've been.	00:02:03
	But he reserved it.	00:02:05
	Circumstances are such that.	00:02:07
	I wanted to share with you a thought.	00:02:10
	That has come after a.	00:02:13
	Very touching and heartwarming experience I had yesterday afternoon.	00:02:16
	In the home of Don and Corey Overson.	00:02:20
	Just to review, Don passed away a couple of weeks ago and I.	00:02:23
	Just felt like it was important since we're.	00:02:27
	Very close neighbors to.	00:02:29
	Go away and just visit with Corey and he was probably one of the best 45 minutes I've spent in a long time.	00:02:31
	I know a lot of the strong women.	00:02:38
	But to see what she's.	00:02:40
	Doing in the circumstances that she finds herself in.	00:02:42
	It is truly remarkable.	00:02:46
	In the course of our discussion, she shared with me that the city had reached out to her and offered to.	00:02:48
	In dedication to Don.	00:02:55
	Put his name on it.	00:02:57
	On a city water tank.	00:02:58
	I didn't know whether to laugh.	00:03:02
	Or to just.	00:03:04
	That they're stone faced.	00:03:05
	But I did share that with some friends and.	00:03:07
	One such friend.	00:03:12
	Good friend David Larae suggested maybe you would reconsider.	00:03:13
	Since Don played such an integral part in his Center St. overpass.	00:03:17
	That you name that overpass.	00:03:21
	The Don Overson Center St. Overpass.	00:03:24
	So I just asked you to consider that he was a nickel.	00:03:27
	Part of that process to my understanding.	00:03:30
	It came in under budget.	00:03:33
	Like million.	00:03:36
	$9 million in total cost, which is about half of what the deal.	00:03:37
	T was gonna do it for.	00:03:42
	And it was well within the timeframes that they.	00:03:44
	Thought that they would be able to finish it so I just ask for your consideration with that.	00:03:46
	Hi.	00:04:02
	All the way Rd.	00:04:04
	So I'm.	00:04:07
	I wanted to ask a couple questions. They're they're.	00:04:08
	Totally related to.	00:04:11
	They did tonight, but they're sort of ancillary to it and I'm.	00:04:13
	I wanted to find out.	00:04:16
	First of all, if a vote is.	00:04:18
	On the.	00:04:20
	On the.	00:04:21
	The item for the.	00:04:23
	You know the bonding of the Vineyard Center.	00:04:25
	Tonight, would there need to be an additional vote taken to start that project?	00:04:28
	Or would it be would just having that vote taken?	00:04:33
	If the, if the.	00:04:36
	If our advisors find an appropriate bond that meets all the.	00:04:37
	The criteria that we that you agree to.	00:04:41
	Within the project has to begin at that point.	00:04:44
	Or would have taken a mystery of.	00:04:47
	We're taking our vote from account from the.	00:04:48
	Tire Council.	00:04:51
	So that's the first question and.	00:04:52
	Second question is that.	00:04:53
	If uh.	00:04:55
	If it were to determine the.	00:04:56
	A citizen group wanted to file a referendum.	00:04:58
	We know we have a certain number of days to get that.	00:05:00
	That paperwork into the.	00:05:03
	So the city clerks.	00:05:04
	Corner which is serves on our clerk.	00:05:06
	And they're gone this next week. And so we want to who?	00:05:08
	Who would be available to receive that in the?	00:05:11
	The appropriate time frame.	00:05:14
	So those are.	00:05:16
	2 questions.	00:05:17
	Thank you.	00:05:18
	I do have a question.	00:05:28
	About finances and.	00:05:30
	We're talking about. I want to.	00:05:33
	Sarah's the.	00:05:36
	I don't know what it was.	00:05:38
	Informational meeting.	00:05:40
	Talking about the.	00:05:43
	Near City Hall possibilities and.	00:05:45
	And I learned a lot.	00:05:49
	And it was exciting to see what was going on and I think.	00:05:51
	We all want to have a really viable, wonderful city.	00:05:56
	The thing I don't get.	00:06:00
	Is how it's not going to cost us.	00:06:03
	We talk about.	00:06:07
	It's coming from the sales tax. Well, then we're robbing the sales tax from something else, so.	00:06:08
	It just it, just I.	00:06:14
	It could be my upbringing.	00:06:16
	In the 50s and the 60s.	00:06:19
	My dad had the same.	00:06:21
	Answer every time I ask for something.	00:06:23
	Dad, can I go to the movie?	00:06:26
	Save your money.	00:06:28
	That was it.	00:06:29
	And it is a good way to do things.	00:06:30
	And.	00:06:34
	I think it's harmful to the citizens.	00:06:37
	To to take away.	00:06:41
	The sales tax, if that's what's going on here.	00:06:46
	And rob us.	00:06:50
	Of things now.	00:06:51
	To pay for some.	00:06:53
	That really is needed down the road.	00:06:55
	Just because it's on sale.	00:06:59
	Just because.	00:07:00
	You know it's a good deal.	00:07:02
	It's really hard for people who have lived our whole lives.	00:07:03
	Paying into Social Security Paying.	00:07:08
	You know, we've, we've paid and paid and paid.	00:07:11
	And we don't want.	00:07:14
	Are taxes to be raised? We don't.	00:07:16
	I just would love to hear why this is so important.	00:07:22
	Thank you.	00:07:28
	Adaria Evans, the Villas resident, I would just like to thank you again for another opportunity to speak with you tonight.	00:07:41
	I'd like to express my appreciation to Marty and the mayor.	00:07:48
	For their willingness to help me with some sewer questions that I had and messing.	00:07:52
	Reached out to me and we were able to get that.	00:07:57
	Situation explained.	00:07:59
	And I am grateful for that.	00:08:01
	I would like to refer to some.	00:08:05
	Statements made in our March 26 City Council meeting.	00:08:07
	Stating about the one.	00:08:11
	Our 23 minute.	00:08:13
	08 Mark.	00:08:14
	Professor Perry was talking about ranked choice voting.	00:08:17
	And, umm.	00:08:21
	I do not believe that I am being.	00:08:24
	Incentivized to vote dishonestly.	00:08:27
	By voting for the candidate I want over another in pro.	00:08:29
	Plurality voting? Excuse me.	00:08:34
	And I do not.	00:08:37
	The care for the idea of a mathematical.	00:08:38
	Algorithm determining.	00:08:40
	The outcome of an election I like.	00:08:42
	11 vote.	00:08:45
	1 winner.	00:08:47
	That's just my opinion.	00:08:48
	And also going back to that last meeting.	00:08:50
	I also I want to state that I believe that we need to make the lakefront community whole.	00:08:55
	By finishing the improvement.	00:09:00
	The improvements that the builder left.	00:09:02
	Because Vineyard City did not have a written contract.	00:09:04
	With the builders to complete that work.	00:09:07
	We went through that litigation.	00:09:10
	And I think we need to take care of.	00:09:12
	What?	00:09:16
	It's missing or absent in the lakefront community. We need to make them whole.	00:09:18
	And also.	00:09:24
	Regarding their sewer system repair.	00:09:25
	I know it is being budgeted for.	00:09:28
	But when and how substantial will the next?	00:09:30
	Repairs B.	00:09:35
	How much will it cost?	00:09:37
	We need to have plenty of money in which.	00:09:39
	We don't know what the economy will do in the near future.	00:09:44
	Careful with our resources.	00:09:47
	Thank you.	00:09:48
	Cornelius Velas resident.	00:10:06
	I just want to ask all of you up there to do me a favor, and this isn't a hard one.	00:10:08
	I'm a geek, so I don't take notes while I'm here at the meeting. I listen to it the next day.	00:10:12
	But I can't hear most of you.	00:10:18
	No matter what I do with the volume on my computer.	00:10:20
	So if you could make certain.	00:10:23
	That you speak into your.	00:10:25
	So that I can clearly understand.	00:10:27
	Because that's when I take my notes.	00:10:29
	And then the only thing I want to ask is.	00:10:32
	Is the vote you will take tonight?	00:10:34
	Whichever way it goes.	00:10:36
	Is that a legislative vote?	00:10:38
	Can I get, can you answer that for me tonight?	00:10:45
	I will answer questions or direct you to the right spot when we're all done with public comment.	00:10:47
	Thank you.	00:10:52
	Are there any other questions or?	00:11:16
	Public comment.	00:11:18
	All right, I'm going to go ahead and close public.	00:11:21
	Kim, thanks for the.	00:11:24
	Suggestion. Umm.	00:11:26
	David, you all want to talk to Pam and Karen, you want to talk to Pam at some point in the future.	00:11:30
	Maybe PM you can connect with them.	00:11:36
	And then let's see.	00:11:39
	We will be discussing Claudia's item on the agenda.	00:11:41
	And we will be discussing part of Daria's.	00:11:46
	Discussion on the agenda with.	00:11:49
	Reserves and then let's see, we'll also be discussing part of your item on the agenda with the alternative voting methods.	00:11:53
	So with that, we'll go ahead and move right on to the agenda.	00:12:01
	Let me see what's up first.	00:12:05
	All right, that puts us to 3.1, the Municipal Alternative Voting Methods pilot project, and Pam will present and then we'll go	00:12:10
	ahead and we'll take a vote.	00:12:14
	OK, good. Didn't sound like it was on.	00:12:34
	I've never made that mistake before.	00:12:37
	So anyway, thank you for.	00:12:40
	For letting me present this tonight, I have a deadline.	00:12:41
	That I need to meet and I appreciate this.	00:12:45
	Are you allowing us to do this tonight? I know we talked at length.	00:12:48
	There were presentations at length last week about this SO.	00:12:53
	I can go into details. I can just let you know that we've done it the last three election cycles.	00:12:56
	From the beginning.	00:13:01
	We we would like to do it one more time, but we understand.	00:13:02
	Hello.	00:13:07
	Whatever you guys decide, we will.	00:13:09
	We will run that kind of election so.	00:13:11
	Anyway.	00:13:14
	I just wanted to give you another.	00:13:15
	Small update, if we did do our CV it would save us about $20,000 if we didn't hold the primary.	00:13:18
	So and regardless, we're not gonna know if we need a primary and.	00:13:24
	If we do it traditionally.	00:13:28
	Election until.	00:13:31
	After the declaration period.	00:13:33
	So.	00:13:35
	Regardless, we won't know if we need that money or not.	00:13:36
	And just to let you know what it would save us if we did it that way.	00:13:40
	So and then the other thing is is.	00:13:45
	Currently we have.	00:13:47
	Almost 68.	00:13:48
	100 registered voters were doing a push to try to get more.	00:13:50
	And with the apartments coming online?	00:13:54
	Later this spring.	00:13:57
	How often are they opening buildings?	00:14:01
	Anyway so though.	00:14:03
	If we can do that push, we're hoping to get more registered voters so.	00:14:04
	Unless you have any questions for me about last week's discussions or that it.	00:14:08
	That you've thought of in the meantime.	00:14:13
	That's all I've got.	00:14:18
	OK. Are there any questions?	00:14:19
	All right then I just need a motion.	00:14:24
	Well, I guess.	00:14:27
	Hey yes Pam, you could answer this.	00:14:29
	With rank choice loading, one of my concerns has been I don't want to have like.	00:14:32
	The whole conversation of doing a primary versus not doing a primary.	00:14:38
	And your current plan with ranked choice voting would be just no primary.	00:14:42
	Yeah, we've we.	00:14:47
	You know, other than when we did the.	00:14:49
	Vacancy. We've never had enough.	00:14:51
	To make that.	00:14:54
	Ballot really long so.	00:14:56
	So yeah, at this point in time.	00:14:59
	There'd be no reason to have a primary.	00:15:01
	I'm happy to share my thoughts and opinions.	00:15:07
	I thoroughly enjoyed our last council meeting. I know it was probably a little bit long.	00:15:11
	With the conversation.	00:15:17
	A rank choice voting is something that.	00:15:19
	I have been studying for a long time and I find it incredibly fascinating and I.	00:15:21
	Feel like I still learned new things last week.	00:15:26
	Even with how much I've been.	00:15:29
	Researching things.	00:15:31
	Quite a few videos online.	00:15:35
	But umm.	00:15:37
	Just like some of my concerns with ranked choice voting.	00:15:39
	Are the the scenario.	00:15:42
	With specifically, that was shared about.	00:15:47
	The election in.	00:15:50
	Wow, it might have been 2019.	00:15:53
	Where Christy took first.	00:15:55
	And then she her votes were relegated to.	00:15:58
	Everyone and they went into the second.	00:16:02
	Ground it does.	00:16:05
	Concern me that.	00:16:08
	Tice's votes.	00:16:11
	Basically for everyone that voted for him didn't have a say on a second person.	00:16:12
	That's one of my concerns, especially since we're going to have.	00:16:19
	Three seats open.	00:16:22
	And I personally, if I were to pick.	00:16:25
	The person in the third spot and they just kind of held tight the whole way.	00:16:28
	I I would be really frustrated that I didn't get a say on the 1st 2:00.	00:16:33
	So I guess I want to make it clear for the public.	00:16:38
	That, uh.	00:16:40
	It's not that I'm against ranked choice voting.	00:16:41
	I, I think it's, I think I said last week, I think it's fun to be able to.	00:16:44
	I'm not even fun. I think it's representative to be able to say these are the people I like and this is the order I like them in.	00:16:49
	I really like the ideas of having.	00:16:55
	Voting options, but.	00:16:58
	I do see.	00:17:01
	Some some really concerning flaws with instant runoff counting.	00:17:02
	I am interested in the future, I hope that they do that legislation does allow.	00:17:07
	Pilot programs so that we can learn about.	00:17:13
	Different options.	00:17:15
	Plurality does have its flaws, but, as we learned last week, does.	00:17:17
	It seems that they all do.	00:17:21
	I agree and so.	00:17:23
	What it comes down to just with my perspective. I'm sorry if I'm long winded but.	00:17:26
	Vineyard, I think it's pretty great that.	00:17:32
	Been willing to try a different form of voting.	00:17:35
	And I think that.	00:17:38
	I really appreciate the people that are pushing for different forms of voting.	00:17:42
	But uh.	00:17:45
	I kind of felt.	00:17:46
	Like a Guinea pig last week I felt like.	00:17:48
	We've tried it a few times.	00:17:51
	We've really tried to help in the cause.	00:17:52
	And I'm OK.	00:17:55
	If the Council decides to end it.	00:17:56
	Today and you.	00:17:59
	Voting and I'm.	00:18:00
	But if it doesn't go that direction, I also respect that.	00:18:03
	Rank choice voting or specifically alternate voting?	00:18:06
	Is an exciting endeavor.	00:18:09
	Yeah. OK. I just have a question on the comment emails about.	00:18:11
	Christie's waltz being redistributed her.	00:18:17
	1st place votes.	00:18:20
	Don't count anymore after that, Yeah.	00:18:22
	So it's the confusion. The confusion is the counts of rounds. So the way that he explained it.	00:18:24
	She was talking about preference.	00:18:31
	And the way that Marty just explained is that she thought that you could only vote for one seat, that she.	00:18:33
	It's the multiple announcement.	00:18:39
	She doesn't. She's not accounting for in this.	00:18:41
	Yeah.	00:18:43
	I'm I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'm I'm saying that.	00:18:46
	The way that that election turned out.	00:18:49
	Is if you voted for Christie first that obviously helped her, or if you voted for her second with other candidates?	00:18:52
	That obviously helped her get her majority.	00:18:57
	Or her over 51 or over.	00:19:00
	50.1%.	00:19:02
	But then if you voted for tice.	00:19:04
	She was never eliminated.	00:19:06
	And so only your first vote for Tice counted anyone else that you listed.	00:19:08
	If you had tices your very first, pick anyone else that you listed.	00:19:14
	That vote never went into the statistics of the voting.	00:19:18
	Cycle.	00:19:21
	Because he was never eliminated.	00:19:22
	So in that scenario.	00:19:25
	People like.	00:19:28
	You know if they voted for Anthony Jenkins or Keith Hooter or Tate gunman.	00:19:29
	They actually got multiple votes counted because those people were.	00:19:33
	Is it relegated or what's the?	00:19:37
	Their votes are distributed so so like that.	00:19:40
	So we have 5 people.	00:19:43
	Say and that fifth one.	00:19:44
	Would be eliminated. Those second place votes would be redistributed among the other candidates depending on who they voted for.	00:19:46
	Same with the 4th.	00:19:51
	People that voted for Tice first because since Tice was never eliminated.	00:19:55
	You only if you had him first. You never had a say on the second candidate.	00:20:00
	Like he was well.	00:20:05
	Everybody gets the same say on the second candidate.	00:20:08
	Yeah, because.	00:20:12
	So the way that.	00:20:14
	She explained it last time was a bit confusing and it's.	00:20:16
	Two things that are being discussed.	00:20:19
	What she was talking about was Wendy, not you.	00:20:21
	Sorry, Wendy.	00:20:25
	Was expressing.	00:20:27
	That there is a preference.	00:20:28
	And the way that your vote is counted.	00:20:30
	However.	00:20:33
	What wasn't?	00:20:34
	Clear, which I think is what Pam is trying to explain, is that.	00:20:35
	Your votes did count for the second.	00:20:39
	It didn't go through the runoff.	00:20:42
	And then twice was eliminated and that was the end of the vote.	00:20:44
	It went through.	00:20:47
	Round one.	00:20:48
	Tice was your first choice, Christie was your second choice, Anthony was your third choice. Round one, it went through.	00:20:50
	Tice was your first choice.	00:20:56
	But he got voted in. So that vote, he's now eliminated now.	00:20:57
	Second round.	00:21:01
	It goes and the count starts over. So.	00:21:02
	The way that the preference is treated.	00:21:05
	Is that even though tice is eliminated?	00:21:08
	Your actual second choice for second seat.	00:21:10
	Is still your first choice.	00:21:13
	In preference, it's just countered strangely because.	00:21:15
	Of how the count happens and one thing is, is that.	00:21:19
	Everybody is basically a limited.	00:21:23
	Eliminated except for the winner.	00:21:25
	In the long run.	00:21:27
	So everybody's votes do fall off.	00:21:28
	And get redistributed.	00:21:31
	Until you have that winner.	00:21:32
	And then everybody's comes back in, starts again. The the 1st place votes for Christy, obviously aren't Hannah. Then they go to	00:21:34
	the second.	00:21:38
	Boat and it goes through that same elimination process. I feel like I understand the process and.	00:21:42
	Mark Roberts confirmed that. What I'm saying is.	00:21:47
	Is true.	00:21:50
	That what Wendy said is accurate. That.	00:21:52
	If you voted.	00:21:54
	This is my thought. Statistically, I really enjoy statistics.	00:21:56
	But if if you voted for tice.	00:21:59
	What if every single person that voted for Tice voted for?	00:22:02
	Anthony Jenkins, second.	00:22:07
	We don't know.	00:22:09
	Because we never got to really see their votes coming. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yes, that really could change the	00:22:10
	determination of the ballot.	00:22:14
	If we were voting just in plurality.	00:22:18
	If I.	00:22:21
	If I voted twice as my first pick.	00:22:22
	Then in Anthony was my second then.	00:22:24
	Those votes.	00:22:27
	But I see what you're saying. You know what I mean? Yeah, but Mark Roberts actually confirmed the preference, not the rounds of.	00:22:28
	Of counting, yeah.	00:22:37
	Which is a little bit more.	00:22:38
	Yeah. And if we have three seats then?	00:22:40
	Tyson's second place would have counted for that for.	00:22:43
	See, yeah, so, and that's just depending on how many seats you have as to whether I guess what I'm saying.	00:22:46
	For the public and.	00:22:52
	Like I said, I'm not.	00:22:55
	Anti different forms of voting. I'm open to the ideas, it's just.	00:22:56
	Over and over again I've seen the flaws of ranked choice voting, and it was really wonderful to hear the people that were.	00:23:02
	Even pushing for rank choice voting to acknowledge.	00:23:08
	That there's no perfect system.	00:23:10
	I do appreciate that rank choice voting does give a lower cost.	00:23:13
	But I looked at Lehigh and I was so grateful for them that they had a primary. I don't know how they knew they needed a primary.	00:23:18
	That's the thing. Because you have to vote way before.	00:23:25
	That to do the primary so that changes when your declaration period is and everything. So that was fascinating to me and I asked	00:23:28
	she goes.	00:23:32
	I don't know.	00:23:36
	They didn't. They were saying it was part of their code or something that they have to have. They have to have a primary, yeah,	00:23:38
	but then they ended up having.	00:23:41
	A lot of people run for council, so that was crazy. So yeah.	00:23:46
	And that to me that that is really hard to sort through all of those candidates and so.	00:23:52
	I really.	00:23:57
	Want us to be able to.	00:23:58
	Cat, I hate this.	00:24:01
	Trim the fat.	00:24:03
	And get to the people that really.	00:24:05
	Yeah, we can really focus on their platform. And my only other thing I just want to say.	00:24:07
	That's my opinion, obviously.	00:24:12
	Is that?	00:24:14
	Running in the plurality.	00:24:16
	You can win by 30 something percent and so that tells you that 60 something.	00:24:18
	Didn't vote for you?	00:24:23
	To win, right?	00:24:25
	And so with ranked choice, I know that you at least voted for me at some point in time in your ranking and that that kind of makes	00:24:27
	me feel better.	00:24:31
	'Cause that means.	00:24:34
	That, yeah, you didn't.	00:24:35
	Not vote for me.	00:24:37
	Because just like any other election, you don't have to vote for everybody.	00:24:39
	Just like any other election.	00:24:42
	So if you don't want to vote for somebody, don't vote for him. But.	00:24:44
	So that's just my other thought on that and that.	00:24:48
	I appreciate it and thank you for discussing it with me.	00:24:51
	Thank you, Respect.	00:24:54
	That there's different perspectives on this? Yep.	00:24:56
	That's great. Thank you.	00:24:58
	Any other questions or comments?	00:25:01
	By the Council.	00:25:03
	I'll just say why I'd be voting against it.	00:25:09
	In in my experience.	00:25:13
	The primary.	00:25:15
	Is an opportunity to engage citizens very early on in the process and kind of wake up citizens that are very sleepy.	00:25:17
	And so.	00:25:24
	I think it's really important to pay that.	00:25:26
	20 grand or whatever to just say hey, this is happening.	00:25:28
	Because they kind of need a.	00:25:32
	Prep and then #2.	00:25:33
	Incumbents have a very entrenched advantage with name recognition and everything and the vast majority of challenges.	00:25:37
	Challengers.	00:25:44
	Are running because they believe in a.	00:25:45
	Different.	00:25:48
	Direction.	00:25:50
	Generally.	00:25:51
	And so.	00:25:52
	What happens in a primary is it allows.	00:25:54
	Challengers to go and put their name out there.	00:25:56
	And then after that it gives what, a 90 day period?	00:26:00
	For all of those challengers to have time to say.	00:26:03
	Do we want to group up together and use forces?	00:26:07
	To unseat the incumbent and that is really important because it helps balance out power.	00:26:10
	And the advantage of an incumbency.	00:26:18
	And it gives them that 90 day period to organize. Whereas with ranked choice voting, it's like.	00:26:20
	It happened.	00:26:26
	But it's like it's so quick that it.	00:26:27
	It's easy for an incumbent to say I'm just gonna not do any debates or anything and just wait till the end.	00:26:29
	And so and also, I just think.	00:26:35
	It's just as a referee, you're changing the scoring of the game, whether it be statistically better or not. It's just like.	00:26:39
	This is the game, whether it be good or bad.	00:26:45
	That's the way it's played and so that's why it's.	00:26:47
	I why I would go that way? I just I just have a.	00:26:51
	And mostly to go out to the public and to anybody that chooses to run, regardless of what kind of an election we run.	00:26:54
	That primaries get the least amount of voters. Everybody wants to wait and vote in the general election.	00:27:00
	The problem with not voting in a primary?	00:27:07
	Is that then the person you really want to get in?	00:27:10
	Might not get in because you chose not to vote. If you don't think one vote matters, look at our 2015 election where we had.	00:27:13
	A It was close enough vote.	00:27:22
	That we had to do a recount.	00:27:25
	Everybody gained.	00:27:28
	Votes, so you can't tell me that.	00:27:30
	The counting systems are perfect either.	00:27:32
	But everybody gained votes and we ended up in a tie and we had to roll the dice.	00:27:35
	To determine.	00:27:40
	Who took the seat?	00:27:42
	So I just want that out there to the public.	00:27:43
	Please vote in the primary if we have one.	00:27:46
	It sounds like.	00:27:50
	Only it might be leaning that way.	00:27:51
	I will.	00:27:52
	I was really grateful as well for the people that came. I found it interesting that in multiple surveys, the people of Vineyard	00:27:54
	want to bring choice voting.	00:27:58
	I liked that the state law changed and allowed you to.	00:28:03
	Make a primary.	00:28:06
	It allows for you to still have a primary while still keeping your actions open.	00:28:07
	I think it's interesting.	00:28:12
	When we're talking about incumbents and challengers because ranked choice voting.	00:28:14
	Is an opportunity for those people to have.	00:28:18
	To kind of move outside of the name recognition.	00:28:23
	Because you get too.	00:28:25
	Rank your people instead of just voting for.	00:28:26
	One person or two people?	00:28:30
	Whatever the seats are that are.	00:28:32
	Open umm.	00:28:33
	And I thought it was interesting too, that.	00:28:34
	And every mark that they.	00:28:37
	Vote against ranked choice voting.	00:28:40
	They found the same types of errors in plurality.	00:28:42
	Only there was an advantage of less errors in ranked choice voting.	00:28:46
	Now the pilots ending this year.	00:28:51
	And we also heard another method that might come out and I don't know if us.	00:28:53
	Leaving it means that.	00:28:57
	The state's going to look at it and say, well, why don't you continue on with it? But if.	00:28:59
	The reason is that we're just kind of moving outside of it and saying.	00:29:03
	The state's closing down on it so we can move outside of it.	00:29:06
	I'm happy to support.	00:29:09
	The Council in the direction that you've.	00:29:11
	That you want to go, but if it's for the.	00:29:13
	People.	00:29:15
	Who want their voices to be heard the most?	00:29:16
	And to offer.	00:29:19
	Opportunities for.	00:29:21
	Primaries in income.	00:29:24
	Challengers.	00:29:25
	Fair scoring, It seems like everything that we were taught last week speaks to the opposite side of that.	00:29:27
	Yeah. Oh, sorry. One other thing just real quick on the comment that you made is that.	00:29:32
	For for something that you also.	00:29:39
	Said Jake. Is that when you're going out in your canvassing?	00:29:41
	In a in a regular one, you don't want anybody to vote for anybody else unless you have.	00:29:44
	Joined with.	00:29:49
	Somebody which we know you guys did that last?	00:29:50
	For the last election cycle.	00:29:53
	But the idea of ranked choice voting is is you go out and you post your name, you push your platform, you do all that and say,	00:29:55
	hey, if I'm not your first choice, please at least make me your second or third choice for this year. It would be your third	00:29:59
	choice.	00:30:03
	That's just something I want to throw out there too for.	00:30:08
	For canvassing.	00:30:11
	I mean.	00:30:14
	I agree, I think it does.	00:30:15
	Foster Fo.	00:30:17
	Better rhetoric like.	00:30:20
	Yeah, better. Umm.	00:30:22
	Just kinder elections.	00:30:24
	Mayor I I appreciate your perspective, but I really.	00:30:27
	I from my experience.	00:30:31
	I really believe that.	00:30:34
	Our community is divided on this pretty.	00:30:36
	Like I, I feel like there are a lot of people that love it, a lot of people that don't.	00:30:39
	And a lot of people that.	00:30:44
	You may or may not care less.	00:30:46
	I really just wanted to say that I don't know well and I like it. I I was just stating what we saw in the surveys with the data	00:30:48
	that came to us. I just found it interesting that those were the results from the surveys that came in, but.	00:30:55
	Like I said, I'm I'm totally willing to support you guys if what you're feeling out there is that.	00:31:03
	The data that's coming back is not representative of the people.	00:31:08
	I I understand that.	00:31:12
	If you have a one minute depending on which survey we're talking about, right, because one of.	00:31:14
	The surveys that were shared.	00:31:18
	Was very limited we had maybe like 20 people we were counting and so that's yeah, that was not and that was the statewide weighted	00:31:20
	survey that had and it's probably the same thing that.	00:31:26
	When we were doing all of our training and everything, we held it at the Vineyard days and we held it here and.	00:31:32
	And people were going, well, we know how to do this.	00:31:38
	We get it. So then we did an exit poll for people when we had a boat center here.	00:31:41
	Everybody that.	00:31:46
	Came out from that said.	00:31:47
	Oh yeah, it was easy when we understand it.	00:31:49
	So so.	00:31:51
	So that kind of stuff.	00:31:53
	For that, of course, that was in 2019 and that's an additional survey. That's an additional thing that we did just to see.	00:31:55
	That's quite amazing. The ranked choice voting is great.	00:32:04
	Instant runoff, counting hazards, falls is how I see.	00:32:07
	I think I think everything has.	00:32:10
	Flaws and counting so.	00:32:11
	Or in your outcome.	00:32:14
	On things but.	00:32:15
	Like I said, how whatever you guys decide.	00:32:17
	We will run that election with the best of our abilities.	00:32:19
	Yeah, I have.	00:32:24
	Comment I'd like to make for For my part I'll.	00:32:26
	Vote against it as well.	00:32:29
	But it's not because I think ranked choice voting is.	00:32:30
	Bad. I actually prefer it.	00:32:34
	But I do think that the community is very divided on it.	00:32:36
	And I also see the state having acted.	00:32:39
	And I also see as it was a pilot to begin with, which to me implies experiment.	00:32:43
	And the point of an experiment is to gather data and learn.	00:32:50
	And I wonder.	00:32:53
	What is the value of what?	00:32:55
	One more run at it before the experiment ends.	00:32:57
	We close it out.	00:33:01
	To to learn from.	00:33:03
	And what I heard tonight is that the value would be $20,000.	00:33:05
	That's what I heard.	00:33:09
	Yeah, just to close it out.	00:33:10
	Say we ran it all the whole time, but.	00:33:12
	You know what? Like I said.	00:33:14
	It's up to you guys.	00:33:17
	All right. I feel like we have a motion.	00:33:18
	Like we have group.	00:33:21
	Well, you all, you all covered it. I well, I actually, yeah.	00:33:25
	I really appreciate that we delayed.	00:33:29
	Putting it on the agenda so we could have.	00:33:32
	That works best and it was really valuable and when they talked about plurality.	00:33:34
	I remember, I remember growing up and having spoiler votes for the presidency. I.	00:33:40
	You know, I remember that.	00:33:44
	And so I hadn't really considered it before.	00:33:46
	And so to have the pros and cons of all of the different.	00:33:50
	Voting systems for me was really valuable.	00:33:53
	And the.	00:33:55
	And I liked the idea of a spreadsheet where they brought in the.	00:33:58
	The what was it? Ringed pairs?	00:34:01
	Seem to have less.	00:34:04
	Of a downside, you know.	00:34:06
	So I'm not opposed to.	00:34:07
	To looking at other forms in the future, but again.	00:34:08
	Our community is small.	00:34:12
	And there's a lot of voices.	00:34:14
	Want it to be done and so.	00:34:15
	So and I appreciate you letting me wait.	00:34:17
	Because I wanted to see what the legislature was going to do, because I've heard rumblings that they were.	00:34:20
	That somebody was going to submit a vote.	00:34:24
	End it now and so.	00:34:27
	There was no reason. There would have been no reason to even.	00:34:29
	Discuss it.	00:34:32
	So thank you for allowing me to wait.	00:34:33
	Awesome. All right. I just need a motion.	00:34:38
	You don't need to.	00:34:46
	Resolution number if you're going to deny it.	00:34:47
	Do the motion to deny.	00:34:50
	You just moved to deny.	00:34:52
	The request.	00:34:54
	I'd move to deny that request.	00:34:56
	All right, we have a 1st 5, right? Can I get a second?	00:34:58
	2nd.	00:35:02
	Second by Sarah. Any discussion?	00:35:03
	All right, all in favor, I'll do a roll call. Just, Oh yeah, roll call.	00:35:06
	Say aye, right?	00:35:09
	Aye, aye, Marty.	00:35:11
	Hi, Sarah.	00:35:12
	Bye. Alright, Thank you, guys. We'll get going.	00:35:14
	All right, we will move on to our next agenda item.	00:35:17
	That is the bond parameter.	00:35:21
	Bond parameters resolution.	00:35:22
	20/25/15 and David Robertson.	00:35:26
	With Lewis, Robertson and Birmingham will present.	00:35:29
	Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to be here.	00:35:37
	I think, Eric, did we get that presentation?	00:35:41
	Hold up by chance?	00:35:43
	OK, as he's pulling that up.	00:35:46
	My first of all, just wanted to introduce ourselves. We are LRB public finance advisors.	00:35:48
	I work with Laura Lewis and as the.	00:35:53
	Financial advisors to the city.	00:35:56
	And fiduciaries were just wanted to be clear.	00:35:57
	We're not here driving the bus, we're here to advise the city and to give you independent advice along the way so.	00:36:00
	The other thing we wanted to mention is in working with the staff.	00:36:07
	And others. We've received some information along the way.	00:36:12
	And it's been very helpful. We love.	00:36:15
	Receiving information from the public.	00:36:17
	From the from the governing body and from staff to make sure on whatever endeavor we're moving forward that we're, we're meeting	00:36:19
	the needs of the city and the residents. So we really do honestly welcome the feedback, we welcome the input and really want to	00:36:24
	integrate that all in this whole process. So.	00:36:29
	I think Eric's pulling that up. I can speak from it on my laptop as well.	00:36:35
	Can I share my screen? I can do it from here if that.	00:36:52
	I'm one second off, OK.	00:36:54
	Should we count 1?	00:36:58
	2/3.	00:37:00
	Perfect. Thank you.	00:37:04
	OK. Next slide please.	00:37:05
	OK, so today we've gathered a lot of thoughts and I've heard various comments. And so we wanted to kind of just get out of the	00:37:10
	gates and just make sure.	00:37:14
	We had all the information in front of us, so I'm going to try and hit on all of these points and then incorporating the comments	00:37:18
	I heard from the.	00:37:22
	From the public today and see if I can't hit on all of these points.	00:37:27
	Talk about introductions, the goals, water, sales, tax, revenue, bonds.	00:37:30
	Other tenants.	00:37:35
	Other partners?	00:37:36
	Potential financing structure.	00:37:38
	The next steps, the primary resolution and then the next steps after this. So next step please.	00:37:40
	OK, as we get into this, some of the major participants that will be engaging with is the City Council, city staff.	00:37:44
	MAG is one of the potential partners with the city on helping fund this project.	00:37:52
	And then also, as we understand that this project is going to have various components, there could be input from.	00:37:57
	Additional tenants how that could incorporate into this project. Also there's potential ways of renting or leasing the.	00:38:03
	Potential parts of this new facilities out and so there's ways of kind of incorporating all those items some of the major	00:38:11
	professionals that we were working with.	00:38:15
	I failed to list Jamie here as the city's attorney, but obviously he'll be a big portion of this. But Laura and I'll be working as	00:38:20
	the financial advisor fiduciary to.	00:38:25
	To the city.	00:38:32
	Randy Larson and Brad Patterson, and I'm grateful for Brad being here as well. They're acting as bond and disclosure council to	00:38:34
	make sure that the bonds qualify for tax exempt bonds, which is the lowest cost of borrowing, but also making sure that the bonds	00:38:40
	are issued just within the realms of all the legal requirements.	00:38:47
	And as the Bond underwriter, the.	00:38:53
	So LRB, we are the financial advisor to the city.	00:38:57
	But then John Crandall and Matt Dugdale from Stifel, they actually interact with the investors and they actually sell the bonds.	00:39:01
	So there's various.	00:39:05
	Kind of roles here and even though like Stifel they represent.	00:39:10
	They represent both the city.	00:39:14
	On selling the bonds where you want to have the lowest interest rates.	00:39:16
	And looser covenants.	00:39:19
	Investors want high interest rates and strict covenants. They kind of straddle that and talk about in both of those worlds. So	00:39:20
	they have a natural inherent conflict of interest. That's not a bad thing. Is this simply the way the market is? And so we as your	00:39:26
	fiduciaries, we help represent you on that side.	00:39:31
	Next slide, please.	00:39:36
	OK, I know there's various goals and there's goals. We welcome any feedback to make sure that these goals are are.	00:39:38
	Obtained and set properly.	00:39:46
	Just one of the comments was from the.	00:39:48
	From this Adam about.	00:39:52
	The needs of the city, right? Because you have the needs of the city today, you also have the needs of the city in the future. And	00:39:55
	how do you pay for that?	00:39:58
	We understand. We've.	00:40:01
	I'm not down grading anyone's comments. It's interesting because you have the tug and pull. Because the cheapest way for paying	00:40:03
	for any project is to pay cash for that.	00:40:07
	Well, to save up enough time to actually pay for something, equate a long time. So you think of your house, right? You need a	00:40:11
	house. You want the lowest cost.	00:40:15
	There's no feasible way of paying cash for that project, so the other way is incurring debt. Sometimes debt can be a good thing is	00:40:18
	you write on your personal finances.	00:40:23
	You don't want any debt because you're the only one paying for that, right?	00:40:27
	Well, on.	00:40:29
	On publicly owned assets.	00:40:31
	Well, the person who is paying for it today.	00:40:34
	Someone who's using it 10 years from now, 20 years from now.	00:40:36
	What's the equitable way of having everyone pay for that? So we try.	00:40:39
	So debt can be or bonds can be a good a good term. So is that something that the city wants to to do?	00:40:42
	If we go down that route, if issuing bonds or incurring debt.	00:40:48
	You want to make sure there's there's different components. Not only do you want the lowest interest cost.	00:40:53
	But you want flexible terms.	00:40:57
	You want to have what's?	00:40:59
	What's good for the city on their cash flow?	00:41:01
	What's the right of securing that debt, unlike your personal finances where you are the one securing it?	00:41:04
	There's different ways of securing bonds, so we'll pay attention to that.	00:41:09
	We do want to pay attention to.	00:41:13
	Be clear, these bonds, how they're sold, they will be fixed rate bonds. There's not going to be any variable rate. There's not	00:41:15
	going to be any reset.	00:41:19
	They'll be fixed for the life of their bonds.	00:41:22
	There may be a period of time that we ramp up the debt service or bonds, how they're sold. They do have various interest rates	00:41:24
	because different people buy different bonds along the way.	00:41:29
	But the interest rate will be fixed at closing. They will not adjust. They will not change.	00:41:33
	If the city wants to refinance their bonds.	00:41:38
	Great, but at closing they will be fetched for the life of the.	00:41:40
	So I want to understand that correctly. Sure.	00:41:44
	I think this is in.	00:41:47
	Each year the.	00:41:48
	It will be a fixed rate.	00:41:50
	Correct when you close.	00:41:51
	However, when you go to the market.	00:41:53
	One year might be.	00:41:55
	4.7.	00:41:57
	Year 3 and 4 might be 4.8.	00:41:58
	Clear this could be 5 point.	00:42:01
	Whatever, and.	00:42:03
	Usually the market is based off of.	00:42:05
	The lower payment that they're holding right like.	00:42:08
	Is it so like we're wanting a smaller payment?	00:42:11
	Up front.	00:42:15
	Because we don't have a lot of cash.	00:42:16
	Test can I resend it a different different.	00:42:18
	So when you still, when you go like on your home mortgage, assuming everyone's had a mortgage in their life, right?	00:42:21
	You go to the bank and say, hey, I'm getting a 30 year mortgage.	00:42:26
	Well, the average life of that mortgage is going to.	00:42:29
	Be like 22 or 23 years on average. So then the bank's going to say, OK, they're going to peg that to whatever index they say and	00:42:31
	your average interest rate for your life of your your mortgage.	00:42:37
	And today's mark is what, 6 1/4 so.	00:42:42
	Every principal payment that you have is targeted at six and a quarter paper.	00:42:44
	Make sense, right?	00:42:49
	When you sell bonds.	00:42:50
	Each year you're going to.	00:42:51
	Principle that's going to amortize. So there's going to be a set payment that every year is going to be amortized.	00:42:53
	Depending on what kind of investor you are. Like if you're a bank, if you're a, trust, if you're a.	00:42:58
	Money management. If you're an insurance, you buy bonds at different parts of that.	00:43:03
	Amortization schedule.	00:43:08
	So yes, each principal payment will be assigned a coupon and a yield.	00:43:09
	That is fixed at closing and this it's locked in.	00:43:14
	And then what you do is you have all of those payments like you said.	00:43:17
	The earlier ones have a lower interest rate, the lighter ones have a higher straight. You average that all together to get what's	00:43:20
	called your tick or your true interest costs and that's kind of what we refer to as your overall interest rate.	00:43:25
	So you don't use the word.	00:43:32
	Variable you just say a different rate for every year.	00:43:33
	I guess I'll.	00:43:36
	It's not. It's about the same fixed rate. It's fixed a quote. Yeah, sure.	00:43:38
	It's I have.	00:43:44
	Interrupt me if I'm getting this wrong because I'm not an expert here.	00:43:47
	I have some number of.	00:43:51
	Shares in this bond.	00:43:54
	Get bought and sold.	00:43:56
	If 100% of them get bought on day one, they hold them for until maturity.	00:43:58
	The rate never changes.	00:44:02
	Is that true?	00:44:04
	Yeah, OK. Yeah. So you see where I'm trying to, Yeah. So app closing, but app closing, 100% of the bonds will be sold.	00:44:06
	And they will have an interest rate assigned to them.	00:44:15
	So so Mr. Holdaway's comment.	00:44:17
	Yes, each bondholder may have a different interest rate.	00:44:19
	But we know that, but they're fixed at closing. You will know what it is and they're locked and then it cannot be changed.	00:44:23
	Yeah, there are maximum interest rate that.	00:44:31
	It could go to.	00:44:33
	Like it wouldn't go any lower than 3%, I would go any higher than 6%.	00:44:35
	It's kind of something I've heard.	00:44:40
	So yes, in the parameters resolution.	00:44:41
	Well, and we'll get to that. We're going to set certain parameters.	00:44:44
	Because of the timing of how kind of the bond sales work.	00:44:48
	That we will delegate the.	00:44:51
	The authority to a couple of people and they'll say OK, as long as we can price bonds within this within.	00:44:54
	At the maximum interest rate, as long as you can price the bonds lower than that.	00:44:59
	Then we can go ahead with the transaction. If those interest rates exceed that amount, then we would not proceed with the	00:45:03
	transaction and come back to the council saying hey.	00:45:07
	The market ski wampus or whatever reason, we need to readdress that.	00:45:11
	That maximum interest rate.	00:45:15
	And I think in the documents at 6%, right?	00:45:16
	Correct.	00:45:19
	Today, in today's market, we estimate that the.	00:45:20
	Current and we'll get into what will influence this.	00:45:23
	But in the mid 4% range and you say, well, why do we set a higher interest rate?	00:45:27
	Part of it is there's.	00:45:32
	Going back to that pricing, there's couponing and there's different just.	00:45:34
	Places in the market.	00:45:37
	If we get into this process.	00:45:39
	And.	00:45:40
	All of the things in the market kind of.	00:45:42
	The market, the rates go up instead of having to come back and get the approval.	00:45:44
	We just set that maximum interest rate.	00:45:48
	There's.	00:45:50
	Whose purpose is for doing that?	00:45:52
	OK.	00:45:56
	When we're going through the financing and doing the structuring and all of that, we seek to have flexibility around the	00:45:59
	partnering because the city could be partnering with MAG, leasing other property, renting their property.	00:46:05
	I'll be working with Brad and his partner Randy to make sure that we comply with all the the requisite tax requirements.	00:46:12
	And this making sure we have the flexibility on how the property can be used not only today but going into the future.	00:46:21
	Next slide, please.	00:46:26
	One of the questions was saying well.	00:46:28
	Vineyards the only one that has used sales tax to finance their projects. I just wanted to put this to bed.	00:46:30
	You're not the only one. This is a very active, very common use of projects to finance projects.	00:46:36
	Like Mill Creek, they just use sales tax revenue bonds to finance.	00:46:43
	A very similar project for Mill Creek is just, you know, it's and you Salt Lake County.	00:46:47
	Very similar type of project, kind of city center.	00:46:54
	Let's use dynamic ways of using these properties, but this is just a list of.	00:46:57
	Of handful of projects, what's going back to October 2020?	00:47:02
	So just we wanted to let you know that lots of people, lots of communities use sales tax revenue bonds to finance their projects.	00:47:06
	And there's a variety of projects, but a multiple.	00:47:14
	I'm blanking right now. I don't know if Brad knows offhand, but there's a.	00:47:16
	I know Mill Creek used sales tax revenue bonds to finance their city center.	00:47:20
	City in Utah County because I couldn't find one in Utah County.	00:47:24
	Orem comes to mind. Oh sorry that if you use sales tax or for the city Center for the City Hall.	00:47:29
	Right, but that's not for their city center.	00:47:37
	Yeah, I can't remember in in Utah County.	00:47:39
	Do you remember Brad offhand?	00:47:42
	I know the Aura can use those for purpose in their library and they're you might need to come to the oh sorry, he's coming.	00:47:44
	Yeah, five years ago they did fill their library. I think Spanish Fork might have as well.	00:47:52
	Yeah, I see a Spanish work, one for 58 or 58 million.	00:47:56
	Keep trying to sleep, yeah?	00:48:02
	Madam Mayor, members of Council, Brad Patterson, I'm with Gilmore Bill. We were bonded disclosure council to the city in terms of	00:48:04
	the types of principal projects that have been financed. The the sales tax revenues are used for a variety of different types of	00:48:09
	projects.	00:48:13
	It's not not uncommon to see a City Hall finances way city offices to be financed this way.	00:48:19
	And so.	00:48:25
	We see them used for a variety of different purposes and I think that the Orem financing, we did that for purposes of the	00:48:27
	expansion kind of the renovation of their City Hall and their library, their whole city kind of.	00:48:32
	Complex over there.	00:48:38
	My memory serves me right.	00:48:39
	Sure.	00:48:41
	I apologize.	00:48:44
	And my wife told me that all the time.	00:48:47
	And I just use it for yeah.	00:48:49
	She always is.	00:48:52
	So thank you, Brad.	00:48:54
	OK. Next slide please.	00:48:57
	OK. Sales tax revenue bonds when we hit on a couple of these points, but yeah, like I said, the the rates will be fixed for the	00:48:58
	life of the bonds.	00:49:02
	When we look at the amortization, we look at.	00:49:07
	A couple different points. We look at the useful life of the facilities because we don't want to finance and have bond payments	00:49:10
	passed.	00:49:13
	When you're having to replace the facilities, we look at the cash flow from the city to say hey.	00:49:16
	What period of time do you want to repay these bonds?	00:49:21
	Right now we've been targeting kind of that 25 to 30 year period.	00:49:24
	We've seen it as short as 20 years and as long as 35 years, but kind of a 25 to 30 seems to be kind of that sweet spot.	00:49:28
	And the reason we have the project amounts, I think that some of the initial budgets for the city have come in closer to 30.	00:49:35
	The reason we have 35 million in there is before a couple of reasons.	00:49:44
	The city has some equity or some funds that they could apply towards this project for not only the city but also the RDA to go	00:49:50
	towards some of the architectural and some of those. We're working with MAG on figuring out what their budget is. They've given us	00:49:56
	a range of how much money or how much equity they could contribute to this project at closing. So still working through all of	00:50:02
	that and we're still working through this kind of what the uses of the property could be.	00:50:08
	You ask, Well, why do?	00:50:14
	Did we put $35 million in the in the project?	00:50:15
	While we fully estimate that the actual bonds will be kind of in the 20.	00:50:19
	$25 million range until we hear back from MAG on what their level participation is and working with the city on how much the city	00:50:23
	wants to contribute. We did 35 because we anticipate that the project is going to be in that 30 to 30.	00:50:30
	2 range kind of in there.	00:50:37
	But then the city has to fund the debt service reserve fund.	00:50:40
	Any kind of capitalized interest, the transactional cost?	00:50:43
	We estimate that that could be a little bit larger. So that's why we give them some flexibility on that front.	00:50:47
	So any kind of equity that come in from MAG?	00:50:52
	Or from the city would be would be applied immediately to to reduce the amount of bonds that we have to issue.	00:50:55
	One of the questions was saying, well, when can we refinance or refund these bonds?	00:51:01
	Unlike your your mortgage when you can kind of repay or just refinance your mortgage whenever you want.	00:51:06
	Volunteer what is called call protection, meaning investors want to know that for a period of time.	00:51:11
	That they're going to return, have a return on their investment. We've seen that as short as one or two years for specialty type	00:51:17
	of financing.	00:51:20
	For a public offering, that's typically somewhere between 7 and 10 years.	00:51:24
	And what that means is, is the city could refinance those bonds ahead of that period of time.	00:51:28
	We're gonna have to make those investors whole through that call period. So you typically you don't and if you refund the bonds	00:51:34
	before the call date, it's on a taxable basis.	00:51:38
	And the reason I say taxable or tax exempt?	00:51:43
	Taxable refers to the interest rate.	00:51:46
	If the investor has to pay income tax on the interest earnings, they come in.	00:51:48
	They charge a higher interest rate because they.	00:51:53
	It costs them more because they're paying in.	00:51:56
	Income tax.	00:51:58
	Well, for investors that don't pay income tax.	00:51:59
	On those bonds because those bonds qualify for tax exempt purposes.	00:52:02
	They can offer to buy those bonds at a lower interest rate. So that's why we have to sell bonds for tax exempt purposes and that's	00:52:06
	usually for anything that's for a public good.	00:52:10
	And so the bonds can be refunded at that call date on a tax exempt basis, usually starting in somewhere between year 7 and 10 and	00:52:15
	will determine that once we price the bonds.	00:52:20
	When we go to structure the bonds.	00:52:25
	For the first year or two, depending on the construction period.	00:52:29
	We're going to do what's called capitalized interest, meaning you're going to borrow from.	00:52:33
	In the bonds, you're going to borrow enough money to make the interest earnings.	00:52:37
	Sorry to make the interest payment.	00:52:42
	For that construction period.	00:52:44
	And so it's kind of so that way the city, while it doesn't have use of the facilities.	00:52:46
	They're not paying on that debt and so.	00:52:50
	While interest will begin to accrue as soon as you close on their bonds.	00:52:53
	The city will not make payments through that.	00:52:58
	That capitalized interest period, so that's usually somewhere between one and two years. And So what kind of work through that	00:53:01
	usually then the year after that capitalized interest you have an interest only period.	00:53:07
	So you'll pay interest and then starting in the second year after that then when you start to amortize your principal.	00:53:13
	We haven't determined what that would look like yet for a couple of reasons. A we, we're still working through, we're in the early	00:53:19
	stages of this process.	00:53:23
	Again, we're working with MAG to figure out their level of participation and so we'll need to figure out. Then there's the third	00:53:28
	component is.	00:53:31
	If there is some private use of these facilities.	00:53:35
	There may be some bonds are issued on taxable basis, we'll need to kind of factor that all in.	00:53:38
	Early estimates based upon some of the early numbers is the interest only component could be 900,000 the full payment.	00:53:44
	What we'd like to do is then what most likely is ramp up the debt service. So to start off 900,000.	00:53:52
	And then as the use of facilities and different.	00:53:57
	Factors influence, we've kind of ramped that debt service up until the full debt service payment would be about 2 million. Again,	00:54:03
	some of that would be would be split between the city and MAG on a roughly 2 thirds, 1/3 basis.	00:54:09
	And it will just work through all of those kind of cash flow needs that will also be influenced by the the cities ability to.	00:54:17
	To be to repay this debt, we've had some preliminary discussions with the city on what their debt capacity is and just want to	00:54:23
	have all of those components as we structure the debt. But that has not been determined, that has not been finalized that we will	00:54:27
	do that here in the months to come.	00:54:32
	Next slide, please.	00:54:37
	I just wanted to add context because we.	00:54:38
	Said something a little bit incorrect.	00:54:40
	On the Aurum 1.	00:54:43
	And to get context.	00:54:44
	Orem's total budget.	00:54:46
	Is 152 million.	00:54:48
	Well, just to make sure we're building the same.	00:54:51
	$30 million building.	00:54:53
	We're 12,000,952.	00:54:56
	Also on their sales tax bond that was voted on in 2018 by voters, it wasn't.	00:54:58
	Done by the Council like this.	00:55:04
	Where we would be approving it.	00:55:06
	And it was in conjunction with their.	00:55:08
	Rec Center.	00:55:12
	And their theater that was connected to the library, not their City Hall. But.	00:55:13
	I get what you're saying is.	00:55:17
	People have.	00:55:19
	Built structures.	00:55:20
	But I think it's unique that.	00:55:21
	The citizens wouldn't be voting on it.	00:55:23
	So the citizens on in our world.	00:55:27
	The only bonds that need a citizen voter for general obligation bonds. So general obligation bonds pledge the full faith and	00:55:31
	credit of the entity, which are repaid from property taxes.	00:55:36
	All revenue bonds in Utah do not need, well, I know they don't need, but I'm just saying a norm they did.	00:55:41
	They did go out to vote and they they wanted to ask.	00:55:45
	Voters, Yeah.	00:55:48
	Just like we could, we could say, hey, let's go out and vote.	00:55:49
	Even, but they did use sales tax, they got that.	00:55:52
	But they were. They were building a huge new rec center.	00:55:55
	That was a massive expense that was going to add.	00:55:58
	They were gonna have to.	00:56:00
	Pay for that.	00:56:01
	That wasn't just a sales tax.	00:56:02
	I don't think that was just a sales tax plan. The rec center.	00:56:04
	I think that was a general obligation bond, so we need to look into that.	00:56:07
	Uh-huh. Yeah.	00:56:13
	I apologize. I have the record right here because we worked on that particular transaction and the 2019 deals was a general	00:56:15
	obligation bond.	00:56:18
	They just messaged me and said.	00:56:25
	That it was voted on by the public of America.	00:56:27
	Yeah, you'll have to excuse me. I've gone through some deal meld here in the last couple of years.	00:56:30
	Yeah.	00:56:35
	But I think it is important to see the comparison in.	00:56:38
	A $30 million building by 1 entity and a $30 million or 32.	00:56:41
	And there's a.	00:56:46
	Their entire budget is 152 million.	00:56:47
	Versus our 12 million?	00:56:50
	And I I.	00:56:53
	I'm not familiar with.	00:56:55
	That, yeah. Is that comparing?	00:56:56
	The total budget is that comparing just sales tax. You want to make sure we're comparing apples to apples and all of that total or	00:56:59
	budget.	00:57:02
	2425 is 152 million.	00:57:07
	I don't know if it's a.	00:57:10
	Sorry.	00:57:11
	I don't want to interrupt you.	00:57:12
	I think that we often forget too, that Orem did build a City Hall and library like in the 70s.	00:57:15
	It also costs them a lot of money for the time.	00:57:22
	So I don't think it's unusual for a city.	00:57:25
	Growing to build.	00:57:28
	A City Hall, be it whatever price it is.	00:57:30
	And the fact that we're partnering, I think we need to keep in mind.	00:57:33
	That our number is closer to the low to mid 20s.	00:57:36
	Just for clarification sake.	00:57:39
	Just so that we're my goal is that we're all talking about the same thing. I want us all understanding the numbers, whether or not	00:57:41
	we agree on it.	00:57:45
	What the agree on the idea?	00:57:49
	Let's make sure we're all saying.	00:57:51
	And that's a very, I think, yeah, if we could all build under 2018 numbers, we'd all elected those construction numbers back	00:57:54
	again, right?	00:57:57
	And I think the hard thing that you mentioned, I like what you how you phrase that is.	00:58:00
	You have to look at it like we're using it today, tomorrow.	00:58:06
	We could wait for 20 years to save up enough money to.	00:58:10
	Pay for this in cash.	00:58:14
	But who knows what the cost is going to be in the future? So those are very good observations.	00:58:15
	OK, when we go into bonds, the unique things about cities.	00:58:19
	Are you have a variety of different funding sources you have?	00:58:23
	I'm not gonna list them all, but.	00:58:27
	The ones that we're going to focus on, you mentioned property tax.	00:58:28
	That goes in general fine sales tax.	00:58:31
	General fund, franchise tax, identifying amongst everything else.	00:58:33
	When we go through the bond analysis.	00:58:37
	On sales tax revenue bonds.	00:58:40
	And the thought process here that's been?	00:58:43
	That you've been used is you actually can can combine your sales tax revenues and your franchise fee revenues and use those as	00:58:46
	collateral for your bonds. You said, well, why would you do that?	00:58:50
	The bondholders.	00:58:56
	Do not have the right to come and just.	00:58:57
	Say hey City.	00:59:00
	You need to use your general general fund to repay me.	00:59:02
	On these bonds.	00:59:05
	They can only tap those sales tax and franchise the revenues for that repayment of those bonds.	00:59:06
	So you can see here between those two different sources.	00:59:13
	The total revenue is then fiscal year 2024.	00:59:15
	Was little over $4 million. The reason that's relevant is when you go and do your comparison of what your debt service payment is.	00:59:19
	Bondholders want to see what's called debt service coverage.	00:59:27
	Meaning for every dollar of debt that you have, what are your net revenues available to make that debt service payment?	00:59:30
	And for sales tax and these types of revenues because they are fluid.	00:59:35
	And the city cannot directly.	00:59:40
	Control them as we all know.	00:59:41
	The cities. The sales tax the city receives.	00:59:43
	Rate is pretty much set.	00:59:46
	You know the the major influencers of those are.	00:59:48
	Continued development or kind of point of contact in the city or who is buying goods within the city and the population, those are	00:59:51
	the two major factors. So as the city continues to grow.	00:59:56
	And develop you're going to.	01:00:00
	That would influence for sales tax revenues to go up.	01:00:02
	So as we structure this.	01:00:06
	LRB did a very this preliminary look.	01:00:08
	We looked at saying, OK, what is your current sales track revenues today?	01:00:11
	Franchise.	01:00:15
	Let's do some very basic.	01:00:16
	Assumption saying hey.	01:00:17
	Historically, you've seen.	01:00:19
	So a percentage increase.	01:00:21
	Let's be conservative there for the next couple of years.	01:00:23
	And then be Uber conservative in the future saying that's 4% for a handful of years, 1% handful of years.	01:00:25
	How's that going to look to an investor? So that's why we started off on that side. This being conservative, we did not do a fees	01:00:31
	that we did not do a.	01:00:34
	A market study is saying what businesses are coming in trying to predict.	01:00:39
	What businesses are coming in? We did not make any assumptions of saying this, that or the other. We simply looked at.	01:00:43
	Baseline, 2024.	01:00:49
	We increased this at 4 and 1% or whatever those numbers were.	01:00:50
	Does that show well for the investor? So we did not do a thorough market studies. Don't want, don't want that to be clear.	01:00:54
	We're assuming what grocery store or what businesses were coming in.	01:01:00
	Or predicting.	01:01:04
	Population growth is simply based off of that baseline of 2024 to say hey.	01:01:07
	Kind of city do this.	01:01:11
	We still reserve the right, we are still working closely with staff to understand.	01:01:12
	OK. In your 2024 audit?	01:01:17
	You had a large transfer out of your general fund into your capital projects fund.	01:01:19
	That potentially could help.	01:01:24
	Make these payments. I'm not saying the city has all of that money. We understand you have capital needs and there's going to be	01:01:26
	future capital needs and growth of the city.	01:01:30
	All we're all we're doing is a preliminary analysis out of the gates.	01:01:34
	Is this plausible that the city could afford this and the preliminary analysis is yes?	01:01:37
	We could do that. We still reserve their work, right to work with this staff and we see your feedback to say, hey, what's going to	01:01:42
	influence that number? Can the city really afford this?	01:01:46
	We're still early in that process, but want you to know we're aware of it. There's going to be influencing factors and we'll pay	01:01:51
	attention to all of that. Like I said, I don't want to rehash it, but like Mag, whatever they say, that's going to influence this	01:01:55
	whole discussion because they thought.	01:01:59
	Very beginning where we may want to prepaid or.	01:02:03
	Pay our debt off earlier, well, no, maybe want to do a 20 year, there's going to be all of those items in there, so.	01:02:06
	Ought to be said Sales tax is a nice fluid number.	01:02:12
	We can use that and there's a variety of factors that's going to influence that number over the years.	01:02:16
	Would would a market analysis be part of the?	01:02:22
	The more detailed.	01:02:26
	Analysis. When we go through this, you don't have to do 1.	01:02:27
	Because you do have so much coverage right now.	01:02:31
	And there's.	01:02:33
	Account quote other projects right now, but I know there's a lot of projects on the docket right now I think.	01:02:35
	I'm going to butcher names, but I know there are a lot of projects coming in. So I don't think we have to do that because	01:02:40
	investors.	01:02:42
	Are very comfortable with that if you wanted to do that one just for your own sake and letting your citizens know.	01:02:45
	That was good. That would be fine.	01:02:52
	That will take a handful of months to get that completed.	01:02:54
	But we can do whatever you need.	01:02:58
	Can you back up inside?	01:03:00
	So, uh.	01:03:01
	When meeting with Laura that.	01:03:02
	3.2 we already spend in 2024 and same with the 8.	01:03:04
	35 we already spent.	01:03:09
	So the say you already spent it.	01:03:11
	What do you mean?	01:03:14
	Meaning it was spent on.	01:03:15
	City services and stuff for last year, right?	01:03:17
	Like for other, well, things.	01:03:20
	If you look at the audit, you also transfer 2.7 million auto general fund for other capital projects and stuff, right. But we	01:03:23
	spent, yeah, we spent it on things, right.	01:03:27
	You didn't spend every dime of that, no.	01:03:33
	The vast well capital projects.	01:03:35
	Not every time. I I we've got too much left of the year.	01:03:40
	Well, that was last 2024 though, so you still received more money this year, so.	01:03:44
	Well, in the preliminary discussions with Christie.	01:03:49
	Of course they couldn't be here tonight.	01:03:52
	She intimated yes, there was enough.	01:03:55
	There's enough fluidity in that number that they could help make that payment.	01:03:58
	The bond payment.	01:04:01
	Right, but.	01:04:03
	We OK, I.	01:04:04
	I I don't like that answer though, because it's.	01:04:06
	There's only a couple.	01:04:09
	What 10?	01:04:11
	2020.	01:04:11
	There's not a lot left in what we.	01:04:12
	What you're saying is, is that we bought some big things.	01:04:14
	And in future years, maybe we won't buy other big things.	01:04:17
	So we could then dedicate it for that is what you're saying?	01:04:20
	Honestly, without the projects, what I'm saying is on the surface the city has the cash flow to support the project.	01:04:23
	Right, but.	01:04:32
	But then you'd have to dedicate that money to that.	01:04:34
	Well, you haven't dedicated that money to something. So I guess the previous years we were dedicating that to something.	01:04:38
	Else is what I'm saying so.	01:04:44
	All those other things that you did, would there would be even a gap.	01:04:46
	Yes and no. So the city has to dedicate those. Well, it doesn't have. You can't dedicate it in both places.	01:04:51
	Right. So, but if you have a capital project that you already paid for in theory not going to have that new capital project	01:04:56
	tomorrow.	01:04:59
	Correct.	01:05:02
	Some of it is capital projects, but the vast majority isn't capital project. Yeah, it could be.	01:05:04
	Whatever services the city provides, right there was a lot of things that weren't.	01:05:08
	Capital projects in there, right?	01:05:12
	And what I'm saying is, is that now you would all of those things moving forward over the next couple years, you wouldn't have	01:05:14
	that because you're now putting them in first place to pay for that.	01:05:18
	So I guess my.	01:05:22
	I'm not trying to be argumentative, but devil advocate, right?	01:05:24
	Is that?	01:05:27
	You're going to have future needs of the city.	01:05:28
	So is this city center a future need of city that you want to prioritize but I.	01:05:30
	I agree you're prioritizing it.	01:05:35
	But then you also have to account for that the city is going to continue to receive increased sales tax.	01:05:36
	Based on historical trends.	01:05:42
	Right. And I think that's where you could base yourself on something because.	01:05:44
	What the information that Laura gave is that there will be a only a teeth that there will be a.	01:05:47
	$296,000 increase.	01:05:52
	From one year to the next. So I give it that no, so that that was just based upon.	01:05:55
	And she wasn't predicting or trying to project, she was saying.	01:06:00
	If you use the simple interest rate to show investors saying hey.	01:06:04
	Here's a realistic.	01:06:08
	The increase of that sales tax over the next couple of years, what that could be, she wasn't trying to predict or tell you.	01:06:09
	This is what your availability is. That's simply based upon 2024 number. Yeah, just kind of a projection of that's where I feel	01:06:15
	like doing the market study would actually answer a lot of those questions.	01:06:20
	Like it for our community.	01:06:26
	Well, I think before.	01:06:27
	You need to go there. I would like to have.	01:06:29
	More time to work with staff to say.	01:06:31
	Instead of just saying, oh, we spent that money. Well, yeah, you spent that money, but how did you spend that money?	01:06:33
	And what are those reoccurring costs moving forward to say?	01:06:38
	Does the city need that money going forward?	01:06:41
	Or, uh.	01:06:44
	Is the city.	01:06:45
	Comfortable saying yeah, we need this city and I'm not here to say yay or nay.	01:06:46
	They say well.	01:06:50
	The city center now is a priority. We need to make room in our budget to make these payments.	01:06:51
	So I think that first of all we need to say how was the money used?	01:06:56
	In past.	01:07:00
	Is that going to be a continued need of the city?	01:07:01
	To come back, to stay.	01:07:04
	Well, yeah, you have the capacity to make these payments.	01:07:05
	And I think that that we're in agreement. We're in agreement on that that.	01:07:08
	To me.	01:07:13
	It's one thing to be able to say, yes, we can afford the payments with the cash flow that we have. It's another to say.	01:07:15
	We can afford the payments with the cash flow that we have.	01:07:21
	And operate our city and I think it's the answer to both of those that we need to make sure that we have.	01:07:24
	Totally agree and or you know, because we did a fire station.	01:07:29
	We're talking about.	01:07:33
	Ice skating rink or a roller skating rink, or, you know, the lakefront master plan or the.	01:07:34
	Corridor.	01:07:40
	There's all these.	01:07:41
	You know, big projects that are going through and it's like.	01:07:42
	That has been something that.	01:07:45
	You know, we've been dreaming all of these other things.	01:07:46
	You eat that up.	01:07:49
	With only a $290,000 increase on the 4%.	01:07:50
	And you're showing us a $2,000,000 payment, not the 900,000.	01:07:54
	We're short 1.4 million.	01:07:58
	It's like we've got a.	01:08:00
	Have a conversation of.	01:08:02
	What else are we gonna cut?	01:08:04
	Or.	01:08:05
	What taxes are we going to increase to get to that?	01:08:07
	$1.7 million shortfall.	01:08:09
	Between the I correct I think.	01:08:12
	To be respectful, I think you're confusing some of the terms and some of the numbers that were shared of saying.	01:08:15
	It's not that it's like you just have $290,000 increase.	01:08:20
	There's all kinds of components that influence that factor.	01:08:23
	And I think we need to do that now, working with staff to say.	01:08:27
	How did you use your sales tax? How did you use general fund? What?	01:08:30
	Numbers were there.	01:08:34
	And they say, hey, you're stealing it from one party to pay another project.	01:08:36
	Well, the city is evolving and what, what, how does the city want to use its money, I guess is all I'm saying. So, well, I'm just	01:08:39
	really glad that you're that we're openly talking about.	01:08:43
	It was spent.	01:08:47
	Then it'll move over to here and you can't use it with two hands, so it's like.	01:08:49
	We've got to have this conversation for the next 20 years. This is not going to be available. Completely, completely, completely	01:08:53
	agree.	01:08:56
	So we won't know.	01:08:58
	Excuse me, we don't know.	01:09:00
	I guess what I'm wondering is when we sign or we?	01:09:04
	Finalize the bond.	01:09:06
	Will it be? I mean, I've seen with my mortgage I know exactly what I'm paying.	01:09:08
	For the next 30 years, every month. Oh, you'll know Exactly. Yeah. So we'll see. Like, this is how many months we'll be paying.	01:09:13
	For how many years we'll be paying 900,000? This is how many years we'll be paying more? About 2 million. So we'll actually have a	01:09:19
	really good map of OK at this.	01:09:24
	Point it.	01:09:28
	You know, if it was too soon, then that would be really concerning if we were paying to my end after the first year.	01:09:30
	That might not be as reasonable with our other projects we want to do, but if it's something what we're paying 900,000 for the	01:09:36
	first few years or however many years.	01:09:40
	That might make it look more reasonable, so I don't feel like we can really decide.	01:09:44
	Until we know what that looks like exactly. Yep. And we want to structure that to say.	01:09:48
	And also.	01:09:54
	Well, we want to.	01:09:56
	Make.	01:09:58
	Assumptions moving forward of what that sales tax?	01:10:01
	There's going to be different levels of that, right? Because there's going to be just the.	01:10:04
	What do you?	01:10:07
	Think is going to happen in a city like what? What's reasonable this?	01:10:08
	You can say, hey, that's what do we want to show investors of being conservative.	01:10:12
	And then also having some buffer there to say, hey, heaven forbid everything goes sideways, these tariffs go to 50% and we can't	01:10:16
	buy anything anymore.	01:10:20
	Does the city still have the capacity to make these at a basic level? So yes, we will run different scenarios to make sure we're	01:10:25
	very comfortable and structure the debt so that you have the runway to absorb this and you have the runway.	01:10:31
	Say hey do you need to ship some help?	01:10:37
	Projects around like when Mr. Holdaway is saying.	01:10:38
	We have capital needs of the city.	01:10:41
	Unfortunately, you're growing pains, right? Because you're trying to figure out what can we build now? What do we need now?	01:10:44
	What's going to serve the city not only today, but 10 years from now?	01:10:49
	But also you have other capital you're gonna have to prioritize and budget for these projects.	01:10:53
	So I.	01:10:57
	Councilwoman Cipuentes made a comment that was making me think in the way you answered it was making me think about it, something	01:10:58
	that we were talking about just a little bit earlier.	01:11:01
	If we know the full payment schedule and amortization schedule upfront. Uh-huh.	01:11:05
	When we were talking earlier about rates.	01:11:10
	And that it's fixed rate, but then in terms of?	01:11:12
	The.	01:11:16
	I'm still not 100% clear on how that works.	01:11:18
	So what I want to?	01:11:21
	Understand or at least get.	01:11:23
	A comment that makes me feel more comfortable with it.	01:11:25
	Is uh.	01:11:27
	What it was making me think is that the rate that a bondholder earns is not necessarily.	01:11:30
	Influenced by the payment that we're making.	01:11:36
	That's kind of what I heard and I'm not sure if that's right or not.	01:11:38
	No SO.	01:11:41
	Then then I'm having a hard time reconciling that a rate somewhere could change that we don't know what it is yet.	01:11:44
	Think of a different way.	01:11:50
	Instead of thinking of all the different bond payments, state that you're Mr. Clausen saying, hey, I want to buy bonds.	01:11:51
	And you want to buy?	01:11:57
	Whatever bond you is.	01:11:59
	I have.	01:12:00
	$100,000 and I'm gonna say, hey, I don't need $100,000 for 10 years, so I'm gonna buy a bond in 10 years from now.	01:12:01
	And that $100,000 is going to be invested for 10 years. You know in 10 years that you're gonna get your principal backs. You're	01:12:08
	not gonna receive any principal until you're 10.	01:12:13
	And you're going to earn that.	01:12:18
	At like 3 point.	01:12:19
	Two, 7%.	01:12:21
	So you know for your your $100,000 that you're receiving 3.27% over the next 10 years?	01:12:23
	All the bondholders.	01:12:29
	They have their schedule of what their and their principal is going to amortize.	01:12:31
	And that all of that average together is what we'll report back to you. So everyone is. That makes sense. Yeah.	01:12:34
	I liked.	01:12:42
	Councilwoman Days.	01:12:43
	Question about.	01:12:44
	When you come back.	01:12:45
	And we vote on it.	01:12:47
	So you go out to the market.	01:12:49
	You'll get the parameters. You'll come back and say hey.	01:12:52
	900 thousand the first year, 1.5 the second, whatever.	01:12:55
	To mine and we will then vote.	01:12:59
	And do an administrative vote.	01:13:03
	On a.	01:13:06
	We are because we preauthorized you tonight.	01:13:09
	On what those parameters are?	01:13:12
	Then we can always back out.	01:13:15
	Through an administrative vote.	01:13:17
	Later.	01:13:18
	Once you go to the market.	01:13:19
	No SO.	01:13:21
	Over what we're doing today is a super parameters.	01:13:23
	And so that will give us the parameters that we can execute the transaction.	01:13:26
	We will work closely with staff to make sure that they keep you apprised of the process because the next few steps I'll talk. I'll	01:13:30
	talk about the steps here in a few minutes.	01:13:34
	But once we go out to market and sell those bonds, we're locked and loaded and we're.	01:13:38
	You can't back out after time after.	01:13:42
	Now, after today, yes, you can back out.	01:13:44
	We're not going to sell the bonds for.	01:13:47
	A couple of months yet, right? But this is the first step in the process because there has to be a public hearing process,	01:13:49
	drafting documents, getting ratings. This is simply the first step in that process.	01:13:54
	The city can still yes, if we.	01:13:58
	So yeah, here's the process. So.	01:14:00
	Over the next, we've identified our project city center.	01:14:03
	We will engage with the various partners.	01:14:07
	We adopt the bond parameters to kind of like I said, there's different noticing and different time constraints that we have to	01:14:10
	address.	01:14:13
	And the bond parameters gets that ball rolling.	01:14:17
	We'll draft a variety of fun bond documents that you can.	01:14:19
	That we will read that talk about the security qualifying for the tax exemption and all of that.	01:14:23
	We meet, we meet with the bond rating agencies.	01:14:29
	Unlike your.	01:14:31
	Unlike your personal finances again.	01:14:34
	Your your credit score is.	01:14:36
	760.	01:14:38
	Depended regardless if you're buying a house or credit card or.	01:14:40
	Or a car, right?	01:14:43
	Well, the city.	01:14:44
	If you remember you the city sold water and sewer revenue bonds. Or was that last year or two years ago? I forget.	01:14:45
	You have your rating on those bonds. Well, that rating is only for those series of bonds.	01:14:52
	Now we're going to go out for sales tax revenue bonds. You actually get a rating on this one. Cities can have multiple different.	01:14:57
	Credit ratings.	01:15:02
	So that's where the rating agencies us for.	01:15:03
	Once we get the rating back, then we'll disseminate an offering document to the investing public.	01:15:05
	Will price the bonds in close so the city can pull the plug on this process for the next.	01:15:09
	Three months, call it, and then once. But once we go and price the bonds, then we're locked and we'll close and we can't back out.	01:15:15
	Before you locked, you come back and ask us for a vote.	01:15:19
	No, tonight is the you're delegating all of the authority to price and sell these bonds today. We can come back and provide you	01:15:23
	updates along the way if you like.	01:15:27
	But tonight, we'll delegate all the authority to the Pricing Committee.	01:15:32
	OK. So this was the question I asked to Jamie and I don't know if it goes to you or our attorney. Is tonight the legislative vote	01:15:35
	to authorize this or the executive?	01:15:39
	Or the administrative vote.	01:15:44
	On these phones.	01:15:45
	Is this a legislative action or an administrative?	01:15:47
	So the.	01:15:51
	The statute on referendum on this.	01:15:53
	You're referring to.	01:15:55
	Is you're trying to.	01:15:56
	Trying to get.	01:15:57
	An answer on weather tonight is the.	01:15:58
	Potential for.	01:16:00
	For you to lead a referendum on this particular action if it doesn't go the way you want, right?	01:16:02
	So well forward to know what my action is as a council member.	01:16:07
	So what you're asking is for the city attorney?	01:16:12
	Let's just make an assumption here.	01:16:15
	That.	01:16:17
	The vote goes to approve this tonight.	01:16:18
	And then so as representing the city.	01:16:21
	The voice of the city has been made.	01:16:24
	And So what you're asking is this help?	01:16:27
	Potentially to help me enter.	01:16:29
	Create a conflict of interest between myself and.	01:16:30
	The majority of the City Council.	01:16:33
	So.	01:16:35
	The that particular question.	01:16:36
	They're in the referendum statute. There is a very specific point in time where the city attorney weighs in on whether or not the	01:16:39
	issue is referable.	01:16:42
	So it would be premature for the city attorney to weigh whether it's me or Jamie sitting here.	01:16:46
	To weigh in on that particular question because.	01:16:50
	I'm going to have to.	01:16:53
	Myself or Jamie or somebody, the city attorney in that role.	01:16:54
	Will have to weigh in on that later.	01:16:57
	So.	01:16:59
	There's not a preview or a.	01:17:00
	You know.	01:17:02
	It depends on.	01:17:03
	A number of factors that go into it.	01:17:04
	Sometimes it can be legislative, sometimes it can be.	01:17:06
	Administrative.	01:17:09
	So why have a public hearing on May 14th of tonight is all done? Said and done.	01:17:10
	Why wouldn't you do that? Because the public can still come in and and you can talk to the really heavy.	01:17:16
	Madam Mayor, Members of Council.	01:17:23
	Mr. Holdaway, the reason to have a public hearing is there's a requirement under the Utah.	01:17:27
	Municipal Bond Act that requires to have a public hearing before you can issue bonds.	01:17:32
	And that's why the public hearing is held.	01:17:35
	Yeah, but it would. It would.	01:17:39
	Let me give you a little bit of history.	01:17:40
	So Brad may have some more history on this one. I think he's four days older than older than I am.	01:17:42
	But it used there used to be kind of a 2 step process. We used to have a parameter resolution, then you come back for the final	01:17:48
	bond resolution.	01:17:52
	The tricky thing?	01:17:55
	There becomes.	01:17:56
	When you get ready to sell bonds, we can't have, we can't sell bonds and come back to the council to say, well, did you approve	01:17:59
	this?	01:18:02
	The bond sale.	01:18:05
	Because if you grow and sell bonds.	01:18:06
	In our world.	01:18:08
	Selling bonds is very much a handshake and reputation basis, so if we weigh on sold bond, I got everyone to commit to buy the	01:18:09
	bonds.	01:18:13
	And then also the City Council reneged on it.	01:18:16
	It would be very bad for the city trying to sell bonds in the future.	01:18:18
	So now what you do is you get this approval.	01:18:22
	You go through the public hearing to say, hey, the public. Is there in any comments on this one that allows you to move forward	01:18:25
	along the process, if there's any, any process, any.	01:18:30
	Period along the way. The city doesn't want to do this.	01:18:35
	You're not saying you have to do the project tonight. You're not saying you will do it. You're simply saying, hey, we're	01:18:38
	delegating the authority to have this process that if everything continues to line up.	01:18:43
	That we will continue to move forward, but if there was a future time that.	01:18:48
	The city didn't want to do it.	01:18:51
	This will just not go forward with the project. It looks like we've established that.	01:18:53
	Between now and then you can.	01:18:58
	Change how you feel about it and there will be a process that goes through and we now know.	01:19:00
	When our attorney can weigh in on it. So let's continue with the discussion.	01:19:06
	OK, I I do want to clarify.	01:19:09
	On I think it's important for the Council members to understand that if we for some reason.	01:19:12
	After the public hearing or in any of this process?	01:19:20
	What steps would be required?	01:19:23
	Make I don't think there's an official action.	01:19:25
	Like a council process? Do we just like e-mail you and say hey?	01:19:29
	We want to look at this again.	01:19:33
	Well, we do know that this is going to come on to the agenda on May 14th if you approve it. It's in the.	01:19:35
	What is it called the recommendation?	01:19:42
	Or the motion, excuse me.	01:19:44
	So you know that this will be on the agenda and if you change your mind during that time, you will have a public hearing time to.	01:19:46
	Make a different decision.	01:19:53
	So because it's on the agenda, that would give the opportunity.	01:19:55
	That would give you that opportunity to make a motion to say.	01:19:59
	This isn't what we're expecting.	01:20:02
	My concern is more of.	01:20:05
	I I don't.	01:20:08
	I don't want to disapprove it.	01:20:11
	Without understanding what our payments are.	01:20:13
	I don't want to just.	01:20:16
	Like I want there to be a process. Can we vote to have something in the agenda?	01:20:17
	To have an update on this so that we are being.	01:20:22
	Were fully aware of what we're doing over there that's fine I.	01:20:25
	I want to add in. Go ahead Pam.	01:20:29
	The 14th will strictly be a public hearing that we know.	01:20:31
	Other motion made at that one.	01:20:35
	No, but, but it is an opportunity to make a different decision if we wanted to pull back that.	01:20:38
	Presents an opportunity where it's coming to the public.	01:20:44
	So, yeah, so you'd have to make a motion to put it on the next agenda after that. So if you want to put it on, yeah, then that	01:20:47
	might be what you want to do. I guess I just don't want this to be like.	01:20:52
	OK, we approved it.	01:20:57
	And we?	01:20:58
	Talked about three to five months and then all of a sudden.	01:20:59
	You know, at day 90.	01:21:03
	Bonds are being sold and I'm like.	01:21:05
	Crap. I missed that three months. So Marty, just to clarify.	01:21:07
	Because it's going on that agenda.	01:21:11
	If you wanted us to expand that agenda item, I'd be happy to do that. And then if you wanted to put it on, we'll be in a public	01:21:13
	meet. I mean, well, it'll be on the agenda so you can.	01:21:17
	Put that into the next meeting. So.	01:21:22
	You'll have time before it goes according to that timeline. Just to clarify, that's only a month and a half away.	01:21:24
	Will we have all the numbers?	01:21:30
	No, what I would suggest, and I want you to be 100% this. These are big decisions. We don't want to force this down your throat	01:21:33
	and we don't want to just.	01:21:37
	Ramrod this down if you want.	01:21:41
	Monthly or whatever period of time or some kind of reporting.	01:21:43
	Status. We're happy to do that if you want just to hey, here's A1 pager of the status of where we're at.	01:21:47
	This is kind of how things are. This is how the market is. This is how.	01:21:53
	The feedback from Max we're happy to provide down our.	01:21:56
	On a realistically regular basis.	01:21:59
	Otherwise, I feel like we're.	01:22:03
	I just, I would really appreciate that as a council member because I don't want to just say.	01:22:06
	You know, OK, $35 million check.	01:22:12
	It feels kind of like a blank check in a way. I know it's.	01:22:14
	At a Max of 35 million.	01:22:18
	But if things are adjusted in mags, maybe only pain?	01:22:20
	Instead of 1/3, they're paying 25% of something. I I want to be fully appraised to all of this public equally.	01:22:23
	It needs to be so I think this is a really important part of the discussion we had a little bit earlier.	01:22:32
	Where people are asking, well.	01:22:37
	Are we going to have to prioritize? Are we going to look at our economics?	01:22:39
	And I think David did a nice job saying.	01:22:44
	The standard operating procedure for this is to set.	01:22:46
	These parameters.	01:22:49
	And then to go back and find all of that information.	01:22:51
	And that's just part of the process.	01:22:54
	So to follow this process, Marty, the way that we'll do this to ensure what you're saying is that the next meeting.	01:22:57
	We can expand the agenda item.	01:23:04
	Or, uh.	01:23:06
	We can.	01:23:07
	If we don't have it then.	01:23:08
	You can request another agenda item and we'll keep adding it in.	01:23:10
	Until.	01:23:14
	That time comes and that'll be our process.	01:23:15
	I can't remember, are you on a?	01:23:17
	Do you meet every two weeks, twice a month, or once a month? Twice a month?	01:23:19
	Yeah, we, we're, yeah.	01:23:23
	Yeah, we can. Harry wants to report back. We'll report back.	01:23:24
	Yeah. And I think what we'll do is.	01:23:28
	We.	01:23:30
	The City Council meets with the city manager.	01:23:31
	Before these meetings and we'll let them know if it's ready and then you can decide when you want to put it on the agenda.	01:23:33
	So.	01:23:38
	It's a good process.	01:23:40
	We already have a launching point for the next meeting.	01:23:42
	Great.	01:23:44
	I think not only.	01:23:46
	Because we.	01:23:48
	Can't spend the same dollar twice.	01:23:50
	And we're talking about a.	01:23:52
	$2,000,000 payment.	01:23:54
	And.	01:23:56
	It's going into our.	01:23:57
	3 point.	01:23:58
	For 3.2.	01:24:00
	$1,000,000 sales tax.	01:24:03
	I think the study of what we spent.	01:24:06
	On not only one year ago, but.	01:24:10
	The last two years so it gives you.	01:24:12
	An understanding of was it just capital projects?	01:24:15
	But then also a forecast of.	01:24:18
	What are all the other capital projects that we have promised voters?	01:24:21
	Just in writing, I'm thinking many of them.	01:24:24
	But OK, could that even fit in?	01:24:27
	And then?	01:24:29
	The other thing is.	01:24:30
	Is.	01:24:31
	It's not. It's not the other thing. It's the.	01:24:33
	The increase is only.	01:24:38
	Tonight or we're hoping 4% of 290.	01:24:39
	Our 4% would be 290,000.	01:24:43
	OK if.	01:24:47
	If we're gonna say we're not gonna cut these capital.	01:24:48
	Projects or whatever.	01:24:51
	Because we've made a promise.	01:24:53
	We're not going to increase sales that well. We can't increase sales tax because we're at the state Max sales tax. So it's Max.	01:24:55
	I'm so clarified, Jake. Everybody like when I looked at.	01:25:01
	The rest by counting everyone's at the mat.	01:25:04
	So.	01:25:07
	Right. So we can't do that.	01:25:09
	But for.	01:25:12
	Or short 100 and or 1.7 million. So it's.	01:25:13
	We've made promises.	01:25:17
	Socially, we're not going to increase any other taxes, so it's like.	01:25:19
	We have to look at what we spend.	01:25:23
	But then we also have to go.	01:25:25
	How do you not raise any other taxes if you're short 1.7 off of?	01:25:27
	If the increase is only.	01:25:31
	300.	01:25:33
	OK. Now the hoping that it increases 300K and I want to clarify and when we I want to put together a schedule so we can clarify	01:25:33
	some of these components so we're not.	01:25:38
	Conflicting comment not.	01:25:43
	Making sure that all the terms are straight in front of us and we're.	01:25:45
	The cash flows and all of that.	01:25:48
	I think that would be helpful because saying restored or.	01:25:51
	Saying that there's promises out there or.	01:25:54
	Basing math off of parameters that we're not actually going to, we're unlikely.	01:25:58
	To know that increases what Laura gave us.	01:26:03
	Yeah, but it's.	01:26:08
	Based on 4% growth.	01:26:10
	That's not my number. What? David? Oh, go ahead, Eric. Did you have something? Yeah, I just want to.	01:26:12
	Reiterate, because it was already said tonight that.	01:26:17
	That the 4% and then the 1%.	01:26:20
	Was a worst case scenario.	01:26:22
	It was not intending to capture.	01:26:24
	Any of the.	01:26:27
	Of the known growth that's happening in the city here over the next few years.	01:26:28
	It did not incorporate the grocery store or the hotels or the.	01:26:32
	Or the other developments that are coming into the city.	01:26:36
	It was simply.	01:26:38
	A feasibility study to determine what our debt and service coverage was.	01:26:40
	And so.	01:26:44
	Going back to that 4% as though that is a.	01:26:46
	A number to lean on.	01:26:49
	Is probably not the right number to be leaning on.	01:26:51
	Our sales tax growth over the last few years has been.	01:26:55
	Substantially greater than that, 12% to 20% per year.	01:26:59
	And so doing a study that you're talking about, although that would come at an extra cost to us.	01:27:03
	Maybe of great benefit because I think that.	01:27:08
	What we are.	01:27:11
	Experiencing and what we anticipate coming in the near future is.	01:27:13
	Not just, right? Well, not only that, but it's not. There are a lot of numbers that are being thrown out that are.	01:27:18
	What is it called?	01:27:27
	Yeah, their estimations or their ideas or their parameters. For instance, it's like a credit card.	01:27:29
	And you have.	01:27:35
	You know, $4000 on your credit card, but you only ever spend $100 on it, but you could spend $4000. And so somebody's saying, Can	01:27:36
	you believe we are spending 4000 but.	01:27:42
	We actually only spend it for gas and so we only spend $120.00 a month.	01:27:48
	Those are the numbers and the ranges that are being thrown out right now, and they're not accurate.	01:27:52
	It's like, and when you say, well, there's a six.	01:27:57
	Percent interest rate at a $35 million.	01:27:59
	And building, but when we're talking about the market and the numbers go down that the.	01:28:04
	You know 4.5.	01:28:10
	Those numbers are pretty far off, but additionally.	01:28:12
	We're in the middle of architecture and design right now, so.	01:28:14
	We're going through this process and.	01:28:18
	We don't even know the.	01:28:20
	Portion of the cost.	01:28:21
	That the city will assess because.	01:28:24
	This isn't a.	01:28:26
	Government 1.	01:28:27
	Building.	01:28:29
	That we're talking about this is a.	01:28:31
	Shared center where Vineyard is inserting space inside it.	01:28:33
	To house the people who work here and give the daily services that we all expect to see.	01:28:38
	But we don't know those costs.	01:28:45
	So I think Marty stated it well that we'd like to see those actuals come back. And then David said it well that he liked to put.	01:28:47
	Natural number seat together so that.	01:28:55
	We can state proper numbers.	01:28:58
	For the public and.	01:29:00
	For us, we'll have to make this decision.	01:29:01
	OK.	01:29:04
	Let's move off this topic though, because.	01:29:06
	We can't quote those numbers at this point.	01:29:08
	I wasn't going to quote. I was only going to actually agree with Eric in that.	01:29:11
	The 4% sales tax.	01:29:15
	Was larger.	01:29:17
	We actually saw a total revenue increase of about 33%.	01:29:18
	Of other taxes or whatever. So I think that is.	01:29:22
	You know.	01:29:26
	There's different businesses top golf with a huge.	01:29:27
	That was a huge one. That's why I agree. Like you could see businesses.	01:29:30
	But The thing is, is Laura didn't face that. She's like.	01:29:34
	We're not going to base it off of that. And I was like.	01:29:37
	Well, OK, I'd love to see those numbers beforehand.	01:29:39
	But at the same rate.	01:29:42
	Even though we saw a 33% increase.	01:29:44
	We saw.	01:29:46
	A 43% increase.	01:29:48
	And spend so.	01:29:50
	Yeah, revenue went up, but our spending went way up. And so, but my scare is.	01:29:52
	You're going to go take that money when our spending like we hire another.	01:29:58
	Deputy Recorder, we got, we have this growth of all these things that we need and we're locking it in.	01:30:02
	Yeah. So that's why I'm afraid of that 1.7 million capital.	01:30:08
	I'd like to see that study from staff and LRB to see what those actually looked like because I know, yeah, Councilman Holdaway,	01:30:11
	you and I were going back and forth on this a little bit today and I was looking at.	01:30:16
	Different numbers and I got completely different percentages and.	01:30:22
	One of us is inaccurate in our interpretation. I honestly don't know who.	01:30:26
	Yeah. So I would love to see.	01:30:30
	Lauren, I would love to see that study happen.	01:30:32
	So that we.	01:30:34
	Get some.	01:30:36
	More accurate.	01:30:37
	Resolution to well and I think it's important to remember that she was facing it off of conservative estimates like.	01:30:38
	Eric was saying so that we can.	01:30:45
	With how we're spending.	01:30:49
	And we can be thoughtful about putting those numbers forward.	01:30:51
	And while we do that, maybe it would be good to pull up what we actually spent those dollars on and where the funds came from and	01:30:54
	how they're separate.	01:30:57
	And like for instance, some of the money that.	01:31:02
	Went out last year. Was the pay down debt early?	01:31:05
	And close out certain things or.	01:31:08
	There's some things that came from property tax that's totally outside of this, So what does it look like?	01:31:10
	We can add that to this. I think the final, the clarifying item too is.	01:31:15
	The city's not going to have a debt service payment for the next couple of fiscal years.	01:31:19
	Not first payment is going to be.	01:31:23
	Like in today's interest rate less than $1,000,000 so.	01:31:25
	To be saying hey we're paying $2,000,000 out of the gates isn't accurate because the first payment that's not going to be for.	01:31:28
	Years to come, so there's still some ways to absorb this and that's why I said.	01:31:33
	The structuring and thought to still go into this process so but there I can remember there's any more slides.	01:31:38
	I have to say I agree with the market study for Brett. Thanks. That's a good idea.	01:31:44
	I think we talked about the parameters. Like I said, the parameters sets the ball in motion.	01:31:49
	There, there's some reason, public hearings, there's some contestability periods that we have to just kind of get out, get out of	01:31:55
	the way.	01:31:58
	This is a very standard.	01:32:02
	This is how.	01:32:04
	By saying it's right or wrong, but this is how it's done.	01:32:05
	Statewide and nationwide. So this is.	01:32:08
	How we're going about it? Super parameters? I still remember the conversion.	01:32:11
	Sitting Richard Scott's office years ago. I have when this first started so.	01:32:14
	Next slide, please.	01:32:18
	OK. I think we've kind of hit on all of these, but just to reiterate.	01:32:20
	If the City Council wants to proceed with this.	01:32:25
	We'll get the ball rolling. We'll coordinate with staff on working with the numbers.	01:32:27
	My guess is we'll probably hang back.	01:32:33
	Drafting documents until they come back to the city. Just saying hey make sure this all cash flows.	01:32:35
	We have a call not to put Mag on the spot, but we have a call with Mag here.	01:32:40
	The middle of April to understand their level of participation.	01:32:45
	I know the staff working with the architect and contractor because we want to make sure we have what that.	01:32:50
	What the what the project looks like and getting all those construction contracts in place?	01:32:57
	And then working towards getting the documents in place so we can go and secure the bond rating.	01:33:02
	I think those are the major next steps.	01:33:07
	And I think Wilbur's report back on a timely basis is to make sure that the Council has the information and timely basis.	01:33:09
	All right. Thank you for the discussion tonight. I know.	01:33:16
	There's different thoughts some.	01:33:19
	So it makes the world go around, but we welcome, we really do welcome the feedback from everyone to make sure everyone's	01:33:21
	comfortable.	01:33:23
	Thank you, Council. Do you have questions?	01:33:26
	I'd like to say thank you for being so.	01:33:32
	Prepared and patient with all of us.	01:33:35
	You're most welcome. There's big decisions in in.	01:33:38
	I have learned about the resolution, but maybe that one needs to wait.	01:33:41
	I'm curious if we can amend this.	01:33:46
	To include the.	01:33:49
	To make the market study.	01:33:51
	Acquired.	01:33:54
	Do you want to make it required or do you want to come back to it after? We find the numbers from working with staff so that if	01:33:56
	they have what they need and you can see the.	01:34:00
	The cost from.	01:34:05
	The incoming economic development that we don't have to pay the additional funding for the study.	01:34:06
	That's a good question.	01:34:16
	To me that that it would come down to how much the additional study would yeah, I'm I'm curious the cost of.	01:34:17
	Doing a market study? What if we bring that dollars?	01:34:23
	What if we bring Brent, what if we bring that on back to the public hearing?	01:34:26
	Then, if we need to, we can.	01:34:32
	Add it onto something future.	01:34:35
	I mean, if you guys want to do it now, that would be my recommendation.	01:34:37
	But if you guys want to, I'm OK with that. I just know that.	01:34:40
	For my part.	01:34:44
	I'm comfortable with the parameters.	01:34:46
	But I'm.	01:34:48
	Not 100% there.	01:34:49
	For actually selling the bonds without seeing.	01:34:51
	More details on Not Just the Bond.	01:34:55
	Structure but on how it affects.	01:34:59
	The city's operations, do you guys feel like you can?	01:35:01
	Gather information that would be meaningful for Brett's comment without this study. Or do you need us to?	01:35:05
	We can. We can definitely provide.	01:35:11
	Meaningful information to address it and then.	01:35:14
	In my in my from my experience, yes, but I understand.	01:35:17
	You have a responsibility to your constituents, so I believe that we can provide enough information.	01:35:21
	To at least address it and then we can maybe at that point decide, hey, we need more information.	01:35:25
	I guess my question about the resolution is.	01:35:30
	I just, I know we've talked about.	01:35:34
	Not selling bonds until we've discussed it over and over.	01:35:36
	I don't want to legally bind myself.	01:35:41
	Into hey, legally on paper in this resolution, I did say you guys could sell bonds.	01:35:44
	But.	01:35:49
	So I don't know if we can make an amendment to the resolution that clarifies.	01:35:50
	That we are.	01:35:54
	That we are not.	01:35:56
	Like these are the bond parameters that we're not ready.	01:35:57
	To just say they can sell the bonds.	01:36:00
	I think you have a path moving forward and it's this one.	01:36:03
	In order for them to get all of the studies done and have the.	01:36:06
	Ability to do what they need to do.	01:36:09
	It would be best, I think, if we move forward and then if you don't like where the numbers are headed.	01:36:12
	Let's pull back on it.	01:36:17
	Because your hands.	01:36:19
	Truly aren't tied in this, which I think were made really clear.	01:36:20
	I want to say something else too. I understand what you're saying, the consternation here.	01:36:24
	The professionals here, we're not like.	01:36:29
	Driving our own bus, we.	01:36:32
	Only started this because the city reached out to us, so we're only going to act.	01:36:34
	If you want us to act so I understand you're.	01:36:38
	I I really respect that and I actually feel really comfortable and confident working with LRB.	01:36:41
	I think more than anything else, I just take.	01:36:46
	What I legally?	01:36:49
	Contractually vote on.	01:36:50
	Seriously. And so I don't know if our attorney wants to pipe in.	01:36:52
	But I'm just wondering.	01:36:56
	I don't want it. I don't enjoy voting yes on something.	01:36:58
	When I.	01:37:02
	But just like, you know, just kidding. We're not really.	01:37:03
	You know what I mean? I don't want it to be something that I don't want there to be any confusion on what the intentions are here	01:37:06
	today. I guess think of a different way. This is just the first step in the process.	01:37:11
	Like we're not. We're not to the final.	01:37:16
	Right to the one yard line, 1 yard line yet?	01:37:18
	This is simply in our world because we're dealing with tax-exempt securities.	01:37:21
	With the jump through a number of hoops and this is simply the first hoop to get that.	01:37:25
	To get the circus going and I, I do appreciate that. I guess I was just hoping the attorney would well, and the other question too	01:37:28
	is where, what do you need clarity on?	01:37:33
	I want to understand the payment.	01:37:38
	The payment schedule.	01:37:42
	I want to understand the bond rate, what they're likely going to be.	01:37:43
	More a little bit more concise.	01:37:47
	This is a really big commitment and I don't want to go in.	01:37:50
	Just with those rose colored glasses, I want to go in with all the facts and information.	01:37:54
	To make sure that I can back my votes so this vote.	01:38:00
	Gives them the ability.	01:38:05
	To go into you that information and I understand that, but I also heard earlier that this vote.	01:38:07
	Gives them the.	01:38:12
	Permission to sell the bomb.	01:38:13
	So I need to I want to hear from.	01:38:15
	Our attorney to understand that better.	01:38:18
	I actually think that question is best answered by.	01:38:20
	That Brad.	01:38:24
	Mr. Mayor, members of the Council.	01:38:25
	I think there are a lot of different ways you can go tonight.	01:38:28
	You can go ahead and adopt the resolution in its current form.	01:38:31
	You could table the resolution if you wanted to, or you could go ahead and make an amendment to the resolution to make you more	01:38:34
	comfortable such that.	01:38:38
	Either you.	01:38:42
	Add to the list of the designated officers so that you can be part of the desert one of the designated officers that gets to see	01:38:43
	those terms.	01:38:47
	Or we can just also bring it back.	01:38:50
	At another council meeting as well.	01:38:53
	I will tell you that.	01:38:55
	If the bond terms are going to be subject to a council approval, there is some.	01:38:57
	Kind of uncertainty associated with that.	01:39:03
	Just given kind of what market conditions are and given what underwriters conditions are, underwriters requirements are.	01:39:06
	And so there may be a little bit of flexibility that you have to give up.	01:39:13
	In order to do that. But once again, that's.	01:39:17
	For you to decide that's not my.	01:39:20
	Decision, that's a policy decision for you to decide. So I think you can proceed in a number of different ways. One of the things	01:39:22
	this does as David said.	01:39:26
	This gets the ball rolling. It does a couple of different things.	01:39:30
	First of all, allows us to go ahead and.	01:39:32
	Published various things.	01:39:34
	Start certain contestability periods. It also allows us to go ahead and reimburse.	01:39:36
	Ourselves or the city allows the city can reimburse itself from bond proceeds for purposes of federal income tax.	01:39:41
	It starts that clock rolling as well. And so it's just a matter of what you would like to do and.	01:39:48
	Mayor, what if you?	01:39:54
	I'm just going to say.	01:39:57
	To to Brad's point.	01:39:58
	There is.	01:40:00
	Representation on that on.	01:40:01
	A list of designates the bond committee.	01:40:04
	I I don't know if you want to.	01:40:09
	Arrange for that.	01:40:11
	Make up tonight.	01:40:12
	It designates the mayor a council member.	01:40:15
	And the city manager, if I'm not mistaken.	01:40:18
	And so.	01:40:21
	One of those individuals. You can make it however you decide.	01:40:22
	So one of the things we could do which we could do that.	01:40:26
	And Brett said from the Finance Committee, so it might be a good idea to put him on there.	01:40:31
	But one of the things that we could do.	01:40:35
	Is vote us through.	01:40:38
	And then if you feel more comfortable to say the next time we're voting or before bonds go out.	01:40:41
	That you expand.	01:40:47
	Your opportunity for the agenda on the May 14th.	01:40:49
	That way you're still meeting your timelines and you could put that stipulation in so it allows them to move forward.	01:40:53
	But then it gives you kind of a.	01:40:59
	A barrier that says hey, I'm expanding this.	01:41:01
	And I want to see it again before this goes out.	01:41:04
	So it doesn't.	01:41:07
	Competing with anything.	01:41:09
	But it also.	01:41:10
	Stop setting gives you.	01:41:11
	Multiple steps in between.	01:41:13
	And you said contestability timelines. Could you describe what are all the contestability?	01:41:18
	Things that could happen.	01:41:23
	Is that like referendum stuff?	01:41:26
	Yeah, in addition to that.	01:41:30
	In addition to the referendums, there are.	01:41:32
	The ability to file a lawsuit.	01:41:35
	Against.	01:41:37
	The bonds.	01:41:38
	That would join the issuance of the bonds.	01:41:40
	So that's that. That's particular.	01:41:42
	Portion of the statute that provides that if.	01:41:46
	The lawsuit isn't filed within a certain period of time.	01:41:50
	That they're forever barred from doing that.	01:41:53
	It is beneficial to bondholders.	01:41:54
	To know that their bonds aren't going to be challenged, that their bonds are going to be valid and binding, gives them some	01:41:57
	certainty and helps out helps to market the bonds.	01:42:01
	But those are the 2 two main things, a lawsuit and a referendum.	01:42:05
	This question isn't for you, but it's it's more for Pam being that we move this meeting to this week because you guys are going to	01:42:10
	be out.	01:42:13
	If you're out of the office, the citizens still get their seven day period. How does that work? How would they reach you? If	01:42:17
	you're out of the office, they still get that period. They can just turn it in at the office so they'll.	01:42:22
	Date and time stamp it for us and.	01:42:27
	And e-mail it to us so we can get going on the process.	01:42:29
	Would you guys be out all next week?	01:42:34
	Yes, we're out all next week.	01:42:38
	Are you out tomorrow?	01:42:40
	Tony, does it have to be in tomorrow?	01:42:43
	Yeah, I'll be in the office.	01:42:46
	Tomorrow, half day.	01:42:47
	Yeah, till well.	01:42:49
	Till the office is closed at noon.	01:42:51
	OK, thanks.	01:42:53
	Hey any other comments?	01:42:57
	All right, if there are no other.	01:43:06
	I'll say that I think this is a.	01:43:08
	A good opportunity to move forward so that we can.	01:43:11
	Get these numbers brought before us and.	01:43:14
	And really research this and decide if this is the way that we want to move forward as a city and make sure that we are	01:43:17
	prioritizing things.	01:43:21
	The right way.	01:43:25
	I do want to make a.	01:43:27
	Comment for the public.	01:43:28
	We have been talking about this for several, several years.	01:43:30
	Probably since 2022.	01:43:34
	And figuring out ways to prioritize and and time things.	01:43:36
	For the public and one of the things that we've been doing is.	01:43:40
	Spreading.	01:43:43
	Then getting trailers, moving people into different locations.	01:43:44
	And doing everything we can to make sure that we're timing these things at the right time and even now.	01:43:49
	Instead of building.	01:43:54
	A building that fits. We are saying, you know.	01:43:55
	Hey, let's create.	01:43:58
	Partnerships.	01:43:59
	Really get creative here.	01:44:01
	To create a very financial.	01:44:03
	Financially feasible way for us to.	01:44:05
	Get the space that we need.	01:44:08
	To continuing.	01:44:10
	To continue to deliver.	01:44:12
	Base services, because that's what we do in Vineyard is we deliver base.	01:44:13
	Services.	01:44:17
	And limited recreation.	01:44:19
	But we need places for our staff.	01:44:20
	Resources and facilities.	01:44:24
	That we can continue to operate as we grow and this is a really creative.	01:44:26
	Great solution for our community.	01:44:30
	That we.	01:44:32
	Can look into more and make sure that it's an affordable opportunity for us, but.	01:44:33
	It's definitely something that we need because we.	01:44:37
	Metal alcoves and hallways and three and four and five people to a room and.	01:44:40
	Switching spots and we're about to lose the Conference Center.	01:44:45
	So we we want to continue to deliver that service.	01:44:49
	That you guys really want in our community for quality of life. With that I will.	01:44:54
	Ask the City Council for a motion.	01:44:59
	Don't be. Sigh.	01:45:16
	If you have more questions, ask more questions, otherwise to table it.	01:45:18
	Anyone.	01:45:23
	Did you make a motion to table it?	01:45:24
	Yeah, I mission to kill it.	01:45:25
	All right, we have a motion to kill it.	01:45:27
	Is there a second?	01:45:30
	OK, there's no second.	01:45:34
	Can I get another motion?	01:45:36
	I believe in you.	01:45:42
	Yeah, on you.	01:45:44
	I move to adopt A resolution 252025-15.	01:45:46
	With the stipulation.	01:45:51
	That we added to the.	01:45:52
	May 14th agenda as well.	01:45:56
	Is that how?	01:45:57
	So here's here's a couple things that you'll need to do. You'll move to adopt the resolution to 2020.	01:45:59
	And I'm 2025 Desk 15 as presented.	01:46:04
	You'll set the public hearing for May 14th.	01:46:07
	2025.	01:46:10
	Then you'll expand the opportunity to discuss.	01:46:11
	And make a vote on this again.	01:46:15
	Not a vote on this, but kind of.	01:46:18
	I mean it is about.	01:46:20
	You'll just expand it for discussion and action.	01:46:21
	Before it goes out to bot.	01:46:24
	Selling the bonds.	01:46:26
	Was Marty's.	01:46:27
	Opportunity that she wanted to add on to it.	01:46:28
	And you can say root.	01:46:32
	Because.	01:46:34
	We have a first, Brett.	01:46:36
	Did we want to add Brett as a?	01:46:38
	Was not a stakeholder or a.	01:46:41
	Designated Officer, just for record, yes, I would like that friendly amendment. I would like to add that.	01:46:43
	Amendment as well. All right. Thank you, Marty. I have a first slide, Brett, can I get a second?	01:46:51
	Second Second by Sarah.	01:46:56
	Any discussion? Can I get a clarification? Does that make it?	01:46:58
	With your legal understanding, does that make it so you guys can go to the market and move or you're just waiting two more weeks?	01:47:02
	So with those stipulations, the stipulation gets the ball rolling.	01:47:09
	My Senate will come back to the City Council on May 14th and present.	01:47:12
	Numbers, and so all the various numbers we talked about.	01:47:16
	And if the City Council likes it, we'll continue chugging forward. And if not, we'll stop.	01:47:19
	Yeah, it does not stop.	01:47:23
	Tip all right.	01:47:26
	Shake nay.	01:47:28
	Brett aye.	01:47:30
	I'm Marty. I'm Sarah.	01:47:31
	Aye, all right.	01:47:33
	Thank you for coming today.	01:47:35
	Thank you very much. Thank you.	01:47:36
	Have a good night.	01:47:37