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All right, we're going to go ahead and get the Vineyard City Council meeting started. It's April 30th, 2025 and the time is 6:38 00:00:06
PM. 00:00:10
We're going to start with our GFOA Award presentation by our Finance Director, Christy Bayless. 00:00:16
And we're excited to hear from you. 00:00:24
OK, now we're tripped out. Thank you. 00:00:30
Mayor and council, it is my pleasure. 00:00:35
To let you know that we have once again received the Distinguished Budget Award from the Government Finance Finance Officers 00:00:38
Association. If you look up behind you, there is a plaque that's missing right there. And that's because I took it down to put our 00:00:44
new annual thing on. So this is the seventh year in a row. 00:00:49
That vineyard has gotten a Distinguished Budget Presentation award. 00:00:56
We give a whole budget book to them and they review it. 00:01:00
There are certain things that have to be in it that are mandatory and they have reviewers go through it, give you suggestions on 00:01:03
how to make it better and if you need your requirement to get the award. And I want to especially think Zach Adams, our treasurer. 00:01:09
And Maria Ortega, our utility billing clerk, because they were the ones that put so much work into that. So I present this to you, 00:01:15
Mayor, so that you can put it back up on the wall. 00:01:20
Thank you. 00:01:25
Christie, Christie. 00:01:28
Bring your team up and let's get a picture with this. 00:01:31
Let's go, Maria. 00:01:35
I know. 00:01:43
Should we move it? Yeah. 00:02:00
All right. 00:02:36
We also have a series of proclamations that I have made. 00:02:37
They are the 56th annual Municipal Clerk's Week, 5 month Building Safety Month, National Drinking Water Week and the National 00:02:41
Public Works Week. 00:02:46
And you can read about those, they will be posted. 00:02:52
Up on our board upstairs. 00:02:55
Next we have a downtown update and Pete Evans with Black Borough will give an update, so come on up. 00:02:58
Excited to hear from you. 00:03:05
Oh. 00:03:14
Oh, you don't have to tell me that stuff. 00:03:18
And now we won't download a virus onto my computer when I plug it in. 00:03:22
What does that say? 00:03:34
No, nothing. 00:03:38
Yeah. While while we're waiting for that to load up, thank you for having us come in, letting us come in. 00:03:42
Tonight give you. 00:03:47
Give you an update. I'm Pete Evans. 00:03:49
With Flagborough and Nate Hutchinson is also here. 00:03:52
Who will be speaking as well? 00:03:55
What we thought we'd do is just give you an update. Oh, perfect. Thanks, Kash. 00:03:58
Give you a progress update on. 00:04:06
Kind of where we are right now on the plask, the planning process. 00:04:09
Our roadway and infrastructure. 00:04:13
And our vertical development. 00:04:15
So right now we've submitted several plaques as we subdivide. 00:04:17
The property. 00:04:22
The road dedication plat dedicated the road up to the. 00:04:23
Frontrunner Station. 00:04:27
Our phase two plant is what you see in magenta there. 00:04:28
Mostly. And then phase 5 is. 00:04:34
Where we split up block 4, which is a little confusing because. 00:04:36
Block 4 split up by. 00:04:39
Plat 5 but. 00:04:41
There's no correlation between the plat numbers and the block numbers. 00:04:42
Our Plat 3 is kind of as you move N including the green line. 00:04:47
The two sections of the Green line. 00:04:51
And then? 00:04:53
Phase 4 Plat. 00:04:54
Is the developments and roads as we get. 00:04:56
Closer to the Huntsman cancer site. 00:04:59
Along Essex St. which is 1200 N. 00:05:02
So these are kind of the timing of our what we're anticipating on St. improvements and. 00:05:07
Infrastructure plans. 00:05:13
So phase. 00:05:14
One we had our first lift. 00:05:16
Asphalt. March, April. 00:05:19
All the way around there, Phase 2. 00:05:22
Umm, same. And then phase 2B. 00:05:25
Was the streets around blocks? 00:05:30
Got us to blocks 5 and 6 and through block 4. 00:05:33
And around the center area of the Green Line. 00:05:37
Then as we go north. 00:05:40
We've got additional paving that will happen up 3rd Ave. 00:05:43
And up 2nd Ave. 00:05:46
Our goal is to be able to have that construction entrance. 00:05:49
For Huntsman Cancer on Essex St. or 1200 N. 00:05:53
Paved by September. 00:05:57
Which will really allow us to do 2 things. It will allow us to have. 00:05:58
Them have great construction access for their site as they. 00:06:02
Their underground work. 00:06:06
They'll also allow us to better separate. 00:06:07
Construction and residential traffic. 00:06:10
As we have people start moving into blocks 5:00 and 6:00. 00:06:12
So these are some of the some pictures from. 00:06:18
Around the community, just so you can see where we are vertical development wise, so that star is. 00:06:21
Right on kind of that northeast corner of Block 5. 00:06:27
Block 5 is actually made-up of five separate buildings. 00:06:30
And you'll see as we go through the pictures. 00:06:33
But right on the green line there. 00:06:36
So that's that corner looking back from the green line, kind of. 00:06:38
Southeast. 00:06:43
Yeah, please. 00:06:47
I think too, one of the things that you'll hopefully notice is Utah City develops out. 00:06:48
Is we've spent an enormous amount of money in elevations and materiality. 00:06:53
So that the project is different than what you would see in a typical. 00:06:59
In a typical Utah project. So I think hopefully this is just the start of obviously what we're doing. There's a lot more to come. 00:07:03
But hopefully this illustrates the intention, intentionality of what we're trying to do here. That's different, that's unique. It 00:07:11
has a very long term vision. It's not. 00:07:16
You know, build something quickly and sell it and then move on to the next thing. We are Utah County residents. We love living 00:07:21
here. We've developed in the city now for over 10 years. 00:07:27
We care about the city and plan on being here for a really long time and I just hope. 00:07:33
As we go through some of this that you see. 00:07:38
We may all disagree on what we're doing or what we, you know, whether you like what we're doing or not, but at least hopefully you 00:07:41
will not question whether or not we're really spending a lot of time in being meticulous and intentional about what we're trying 00:07:46
to create. I think that's important as we go through this. 00:07:52
From the green line, the playground, everything is very, very top notch. It's not just like what's the cheapest thing we can build 00:07:57
and get out of here, It's a very long term vision here that we have and think we can create something very special together. 00:08:03
So that also goes into, you know, we worked. 00:08:11
For a long time on. 00:08:15
These paseos and courtyards that go throughout the community. 00:08:16
So as you come down and you weave through. 00:08:20
Block 5 and you're in between these two buildings. 00:08:22
As you walk through this area and it connects these different courtyards. 00:08:25
They're inside of the community. 00:08:29
You can kind of see, you know, you look at it from a plan view on paper. 00:08:31
You know, like, Oh yeah, that'll be. 00:08:35
More interesting than not having that there. 00:08:37
You walk through it right now and you're like, wow, this is going to be amazing. 00:08:40
Like this is this is going to be a really, really cool. 00:08:44
Environment for people to live in. 00:08:47
So in these courtyards we have. 00:08:49
Different courtyards are programmed. 00:08:52
With different elements, this is a playground structure. 00:08:54
That's going into one of the courtyards. A different courtyard has. 00:08:57
A pizza oven and and is more quiet and kind of more. 00:09:00
You know, less kid oriented. 00:09:05
Another one has. 00:09:07
You know, like Wiffle ball. 00:09:10
And things like that in it. And so all of them are programmed differently and they're all connected by this series of. 00:09:12
Pedestrian Paseos that interconnect them. 00:09:18
This is block 6. 00:09:22
Again, this view is kind of looking from the South to the north. 00:09:23
But you can see this similarly. There's two big courtyards in between. 00:09:29
Those two buildings and again. 00:09:34
You know, as you look at these buildings in the way that they were designed, the first floor. 00:09:36
Doesn't have interior loaded corridors. They all enter and exit out onto the public area. 00:09:41
So you're creating this really social. 00:09:46
Really walkable condition with the buildings themselves and with. 00:09:49
The way that the buildings are laid out and connected together. 00:09:53
This is blocks 8 and 14. 00:09:57
Just north of the Green Line. 00:10:00
So you can see that building is framing up to the north, the one to the South. 00:10:03
They're pouring footings on. 00:10:07
You can see the large kind of commercial space. 00:10:09
On the first floor of this. 00:10:12
Building on that corner, there will be. 00:10:14
An identical one on this corner. 00:10:16
That will be across the street from each other. 00:10:18
You know those will eventually be. 00:10:21
Retail areas that we hope will be. 00:10:25
Breakfast shops or donut shops or. 00:10:28
I guess no one eats Donuts anymore, but. 00:10:30
I still eat Donuts. 00:10:33
Yeah. 00:10:35
Yeah, so. 00:10:37
They'll probably be programmed with some fitness and. 00:10:39
Things like that, it'll be more immediately available. 00:10:42
But it's built to be able to convert to. 00:10:45
Retail in the future? 00:10:48
This is block 4 where we've. 00:10:50
Started the grocery store. 00:10:52
Development. So this is this is. 00:10:55
Been a really interesting process for us to go through, but. 00:10:57
We're really, really excited about. 00:11:01
The grocery store and how that's turning out. 00:11:03
Umm, if you've been over here at all, you've. 00:11:06
Probably noticed at this grocery store is. 00:11:09
Building out in. 00:11:12
Record time. 00:11:13
What's that? 00:11:15
You talk about construction, hit the pretty picture. Yeah, Yeah. Surprise. 00:11:17
Another you know, I think this also hopefully one of the things we've heard loud and clear from this community for a lot of years. 00:11:23
Was the need for a grocery store. The grocery store we're building, we didn't feel like existed in our market, so we went and 00:11:30
found Lee's. 00:11:34
Who? Umm, uh. 00:11:38
Is an associated foods partner, as many of you know. 00:11:40
The thought process behind that was to make sure that we could bring. 00:11:43
Prices to where we wouldn't price people out of the market by building what we believe will be the nicest grocery store in the 00:11:47
state. 00:11:51
This grocery store is not built. 00:11:55
From an aesthetic standpoint to get returns from a real estate perspective, this is very, very overbuilt and the only way you'll 00:11:58
and how you'll know that is. 00:12:02
Go drive around and look at every other grocery store in the Utah market and compare it to this. It is very, very unique. 00:12:07
And we're excited to do this. And the reason behind this was because. 00:12:13
We felt like this is what the community had been asking for for a very, very long time and wanted to put this kind of in the heart 00:12:17
of the community as soon as possible so. 00:12:21
Oh, so yeah, you. And if you ever watched the video, that little excerpt video that we made, we partnered. 00:12:28
With Sean Feeney from New York. 00:12:36
He has one of the top two or three pizzerias in the world in New York. 00:12:39
And he will be bringing his first location out of New York. 00:12:43
Right there on the corner there, Feeny Pizza and a cafe shop next door to that and we plan on hopefully opening that as soon as 00:12:47
the grocery store opens. So we're in the middle of. 00:12:52
Interior design work with him. 00:12:57
He's been asked by developers all around the country to go. 00:12:59
He's a very close member of a member of our team. 00:13:02
A close friend of a member of our team and so he's willing to lean in here and will hopefully help us with other culinary. 00:13:05
Culinary concepts that we can bring. The goal of this is to, you know, Utah County is in need of some medium to higher tier 00:13:11
restaurants. But what we want to make sure is we're not just pricing everyone out of the market and having really expensive steak 00:13:17
houses in here. Ideally we'll have one or two of those over time. 00:13:23
But it's to bring. 00:13:29
Good culinary concepts here that we don't have that you can find maybe a lot of other places in Utah. That's kind of the culinary 00:13:30
thought process that we have. 00:13:35
Bringing things down to it. 00:13:40
There's construction, as Pete mentioned, it's we're going gangbusters. We're shooting as hard as we can to have this open by 00:13:45
November 1st. 00:13:48
The TI plans are into the city. We've gotten comments back. 00:13:52
There's a little bit, they're already rolling the roof. 00:13:56
So this is well, well underway. 00:13:59
Here's some concepts of the inside. 00:14:03
These have been updated a little bit in the plans that have been turned into the city, but that's kind of the aesthetic that we're 00:14:05
going for. 00:14:09
Umm, so it should be a unique aspect of. 00:14:13
You know the interior there. 00:14:20
The green light on. 00:14:23
Keep going. 00:14:24
Right. Thought you'd never ask. 00:14:26
So the green line here we got blocks five and six of the green line were the number 9 is. 00:14:29
Umm, this is well underway. 00:14:35
Here's the concept rendering of this. This isn't just like what it hopes to be, this is actual. 00:14:38
Renderings of the construction drawings. 00:14:44
So as some of you have probably seen. 00:14:47
That pavilion is being installed. That grass is there. Here's an actual picture of where it is today. 00:14:50
This play structure. 00:14:56
That you can see right there, is maybe the thing I'm most excited about in all of. 00:14:59
We asked Bronson and. 00:15:04
He kept bringing here's a play concept, here's a play concept and was like, yeah, we want something very iconic that kids would 00:15:07
love that would terminate the Green Line. 00:15:11
And he found this. 00:15:15
It's about 40 feet tall. It's incredibly beautiful and kids are going to love this. And that's probably the thing I'm currently 00:15:17
most excited about and that delivers like. 00:15:22
July. June. 00:15:27
So that will terminate kind of you see to the top, middle of that picture there. 00:15:29
There will be a children's play area and then that iconic balloon looking structure will be right there in the middle. 00:15:34
Umm. Here's the pavilion. 00:15:41
Put some cladding on that here soon. Oops. 00:15:43
Oh boy. 00:15:50
Yeah, sorry. 00:15:55
Easy. 00:15:58
So play structure there for the children. This is the middle green line concept. 00:16:01
This is also under construction this. 00:16:07
Is shooting to be completed in about August. Everything but the structures there in the middle, as you remember we had talked 00:16:10
about? 00:16:13
Like a farm to table type restaurant concept there in the middle that's more permanent obviously. 00:16:16
We can't make any profit off that restaurant. Any money that would come in from any of the leases that that come into the Green 00:16:25
Line just go to operate the Green Line and help pay for maintenance of the Green Line. 00:16:30
So, uh. 00:16:35
Then we're working on some potential, maybe temporary pop up shops that go around that of national retailers that could come in 00:16:36
and trade out concepts frequently. This would just be temporary in nature. 00:16:41
Have some local. 00:16:46
Umm, different users and some of these as well. So get a nice flavor of bringing mixing kind of local, regional and national. 00:16:49
Tendency into that and then you have the two spaces on the side for gathering for like movies in the park. 00:16:57
Jackie, our Marketing Director is Some of you have met Jackie at some of the different events. 00:17:03
She will be programming a lot of this kind of constantly. So we'll be having yoga in the park, movies in the park, in the Green 00:17:08
Line, you know, all these different things that will be able to bring people down and be able to participate kind of as a 00:17:14
community in some of these spaces. So that's kind of the work that's being done there now. It's as you can tell, it's very active 00:17:19
and going. 00:17:24
We're excited about that. Wish it was. 00:17:29
Done sooner, but. 00:17:32
Can't win them all. 00:17:34
Umm, And then this is the update on the kind of recreation facility slash Wellness pool facility that we talked about a couple of 00:17:37
years ago. 00:17:43
We're hoping to start construction. This is the site plan. We're working on this now. 00:17:48
You've got the kids play pool area here. 00:17:53
The splash pad here. This is very similar to the one you saw a couple of years ago. 00:17:56
And then these, this will be a quiet pool that's elevated, more membership, maybe more annual memberships that go along with this 00:18:00
building. 00:18:04
Umm, as you remember from the lease from a couple of years ago. 00:18:09
And then this is more of the. 00:18:12
Kind of adult pool, but. 00:18:14
Maybe monthly memberships and that ties into the kids pool there will be. 00:18:17
Lifeguards here. 00:18:21
Concessions building here and once again. 00:18:23
This is run as a nonprofit for. 00:18:25
For Utah City and Vineyard residents, so not looking to make any money off of this, just as an amenity for people who want to use 00:18:29
it. 00:18:32
As you'll remember from a couple of years ago, many other cities. 00:18:35
Bond and tax everybody to build structures like this. 00:18:39
But this provided a really unique opportunity for Vineyard residents because this is something they can opt into if they want to. 00:18:43
But they don't have to pay for it if they don't. 00:18:49
Working currently right now, I think we're in for a site plan on this. This is a kind of a racquet club. This is. 00:18:54
Change maybe a little bit. There's a few less pickleball courts. We decided to add a few more Fidel courts as you can see here. 00:19:01
And you're familiar with Fidel? That's kind of a sport that's. 00:19:07
Taking off across the country. 00:19:10
Very similar to pickleball, but a little bit different and so this concept. 00:19:12
Way too many pickleball courts as you can see here, and not as many pedals, so that mix will change a little bit. This will be 00:19:17
temporary until we build on this in the future, so maybe 5 to 10 years, but at least start to provide some activation. 00:19:23
Also, this borders the green line. 00:19:29
So provide some activities for current Vineyard residents to come up and participate in, or people that live downtown as well. 00:19:31
This is a basketball court that will. 00:19:38
That we're working with Sean Feeney and the Feeney Pizza concept on right here to activate and bring BYU and Jazz players and many 00:19:41
other players from across the country to do more activations and then have, you know, Vineyard. 00:19:47
Umm, basketball tournaments, et cetera, from people that want to come up and participate in that. 00:19:54
So that's kind of everything that's currently. 00:20:00
Under design and under construction. 00:20:04
We're working with some architects to decide on who what architects to choose for blocks one and seven here. 00:20:07
That border this border the train Plaza. 00:20:14
And that will have much more retail if you'll remember from the code it's required to have. 00:20:18
Main floor retail and that whole area there. 00:20:23
Just for reference sake, from the train station to the end of the square about here. 00:20:26
Is a distance of about Cheesecake Factory to Nordstrom. 00:20:31
City Creek. 00:20:35
So when you look at this concept, you know, that just kind of gives you an idea of how much retail we're actually talking there. 00:20:36
So we're working with some mark, some national architecture firms and local firms to start planning this. It would have about 150 00:20:42
to 170,000 feet of retail on the main level. 00:20:48
With some housing concepts on top. 00:20:54
There's been a lot of questions from the community on this. All going to be for rent. 00:20:56
The answer to that is no, it is not for sure going to be all for rent. 00:21:00
Our philosophy is, though, most of these projects you're seeing we're starting now are for rent, and the thought process behind 00:21:05
that is. 00:21:09
As we deliver the Green Line, as we deliver Huntsman Cancer, as we deliver. 00:21:12
The retail and create the sense of place and experience that at that point probably it makes more sense to bring in some of the 00:21:19
for sale housing alongside all of that. So the next few years there will be lots and lots of for sale housing. 00:21:24
It will be kind of scattered throughout the community and really thoughtful and how it works with parking and everything else. 00:21:31
And will be managed. The parking will be similarly managed to the residential. 00:21:37
The rental residential to. 00:21:42
To ensure that. 00:21:44
There's ample parking and it's enforced, I think some of the challenges that the city's had in the past on parking. To this point, 00:21:46
I'm just a bystander in this. 00:21:50
But the. 00:21:54
It's not being enforced appropriately and a lot of those different communities and that's when you rent a unit, A2 bedroom unit to 00:21:58
four or five college students, it gets a little challenging to provide ample partners. So the way to handle that is to have the 00:22:03
HOA is properly enforce those and some of those. 00:22:08
Hos, but I don't know why I'm bringing this up right now. I probably should stay clear of that. 00:22:14
And then Huntsman cancer is. 00:22:20
Is up there to the north. They plan on delivering. They were planning on delivering first quarter of 2029. They're feeling like 00:22:24
that schedule is pulling forward maybe to the third, second or third quarter of 2028. 00:22:30
So that's a lot of high paying jobs and as Pete mentioned before, we're working really hard to get all the infrastructure ready 00:22:37
for them and then we're talking with. 00:22:41
State and national tenants. 00:22:47
On adjacency for them to bring in other larger employers into the area. 00:22:49
So we think that'll be a boon for everybody and I think. 00:22:55
One of the things I think all of us can agree on. 00:22:59
Is continuing to work with the state. 00:23:02
To make sure that our. 00:23:04
Our major thoroughfares are widened appropriately and built. I think we can all agree that getting people in and out of the city 00:23:06
is a huge concern. 00:23:10
And I think there's been talks about, you know, Vineyard leapfrogging some of these other cities and not waiting our our. 00:23:14
Line, our turn in line. I think the response to that from from our perspective would be a lot of these cities, because Geneva 00:23:21
Steel was here, we're able to get hundreds of millions of dollars of state infrastructure for the last 50 years. And actually 00:23:26
Vineyard has been leapfrogged by a lot of them for a very long time. And now we're kind of stuck with a couple insurance and outs 00:23:31
of the city. 00:23:37
And so I think it's. 00:23:43
All of us should hopefully be able to work together and trying to alleviate some of that stress and we appreciate all of you that 00:23:44
are kind of digging into that and trying to help there, but there's ever meetings with state or. 00:23:49
Or county or regional officials on that. And you feel like the developer could be helpful in any of those meetings? We're happy 00:23:55
to. 00:23:58
To dig in with any of the citizens that are here as well, to work on that together, because we think that is probably. 00:24:01
Should be the number one focus of all of us kind of all the time that we're all beating, beating that drum that we get the 00:24:07
infrastructure necessary to make everything work for everybody. So. 00:24:12
That's great, Council. Do you have any questions? 00:24:18
Will you go back to? 00:24:25
Let's see one of the first sides of the building that's. 00:24:28
Cluster completion. 00:24:32
Yeah, yeah, that works. 00:24:38
So you were saying that when people exit their homes, they're coming out the front door. Is that? 00:24:41
So where do they like just religious sex? I'm just curious, is there a parking structure inside of there somewhere or they park on 00:24:47
the street or? Yeah. So, so all of the all of the black that you see here is parking, surface parking for now and then it will go 00:24:53
into structure. So in the future there'll be a parking structure here on 6B. 00:24:59
There'll be a parking structure here on 5F. 00:25:05
And and these people can go into this courtyard here and access their units. 00:25:08
OK. 00:25:13
Good question. 00:25:16
Thank you. 00:25:17
Any other questions? 00:25:21
This looks incredible. We're really excited. These projects are exciting and I think our residents will be really happy to know 00:25:24
that that park is moving along. It was really neat to be with you guys the other day and see all the trees that are going in and. 00:25:31
Just to know that. 00:25:38
That big hot air balloon looking structures command, Kids will love that. It's incredible. Well, and I really appreciated the 00:25:39
detail in the exterior. 00:25:44
They're really pretty like it looks really, really nice. So the detail you guys have paid it's it's yeah, I was really impressed. 00:25:49
Thank you. We're trying and we think blocks five and six are probably the we're learning as we go as well. So hopefully it gets 00:25:55
better as we go. But thank you yeah. And thank you so much for working with our other partners like UTA and donating parking and 00:26:01
helping them work together to create more parking that's. 00:26:07
Really big for our community. We appreciate that. Just being really thoughtful about parking in general. So another thing I wanted 00:26:13
to mention, we're currently working with the Church of Jesus Christ on some multiple church sites in here. 00:26:20
That would be more vertical and urban in nature than what you see historically in Utah too, so there's some exciting things on 00:26:27
that front. Nothing to announce yet. 00:26:31
And not the special projects department yet, but. 00:26:36
Do you want to maybe talk about, I know a lot of people have questions about schools in the area because we are going to need 00:26:39
another elementary school and Vineyard too. Yeah, good question. So and all the projects we've done in the past, like when we 00:26:45
developed Waters Edge, there was no necessarily school sites planned for that. We worked with the charter school and the Alpine 00:26:51
School District and made sure there was perfect schools obviously. 00:26:57
Worst case scenario for developers to build a project that doesn't have schools. It's not good for property values and we also 00:27:03
care about children at the same time as. 00:27:07
Umm, as we did the little Shark Tank thing here with the other school, which is which is fun. 00:27:11
But yes, there will be school, you know, we'll work with them for appropriate land that they need for schools. Once again, what 00:27:17
we're trying to talk to some of these groups about is to integrate it into a mixed-use environment so that you don't go and take 00:27:22
Block 7 and make that a typical elementary school with all the fields, but that we're working together and maybe it's up by Geneva 00:27:27
Park, for example, where we're able to share the fields during the day. 00:27:33
And so they're not having to buy as much ground and maybe go a little bit more vertical than they typically would. 00:27:38
Uh, but they're able to share the park space with the city and everybody else, so. 00:27:44
Could you also go into a little more detail about this swimming pool? 00:27:48
About how like, it's a public pool. 00:27:52
When you say memberships, it's like, is it kind of like what you see with the Sarah pool or people can buy their punch passes? 00:27:54
Yeah, yeah, So good question. So in our in our lease, if you'll remember it was it was. 00:28:01
The charge will have to be similar to the cost that are born in other municipalities, so we're still working through the cost 00:28:08
structure of. 00:28:11
Are they monthly memberships? Are they annual memberships? How exactly do they work? But yes, it will be. 00:28:16
It will be similar for the people that live, that live here downtown, for the residents if they would like to buy a membership as 00:28:21
well. So we haven't finalized that yet. We've just been really focused on let's get the design going because it's going to take 00:28:25
probably 16 to 18 months to build. 00:28:30
We're hoping to deliver at least, so let me go back. 00:28:35
Phase one of the pools. 00:28:39
I feel bad I just took this right over from Pete and he was doing so well and now I'm just off on a tangent. 00:28:42
Umm, phase one are the pools, the concessions building in this restroom building. 00:28:50
And splash pad and the hope is just to have that done by Memorial Day of 2026, so a year from now. 00:28:56
Within this building here following. 00:29:02
Thereafter, so working really hard on that. 00:29:06
It's just been working with the county on the. 00:29:09
On the health department and making sure all of that's done and the decking is sized appropriately for restrooms and all these 00:29:12
little nuances is what we've really been focused on. And then? 00:29:17
We'll turn the focus to kind of how that program works, so. 00:29:22
That's nothing. Thank you. It's really great. 00:29:26
All right. Well, is there another question? 00:29:30
Just thank you guys for coming and giving us an update and presenting. 00:29:33
Appreciate it. Thank you. 00:29:37
Thanks for having us. Sorry. 00:29:39
Next, we're going to hear about our Memorial Benson Tree Program and Brian Badri, our Parks and Rec director, will present. 00:29:42
Good evening, I cannot wait for Padel. 00:29:57
And uh. 00:30:01
I challenge Bronson. 00:30:03
No, I have not. 00:30:07
But I highly recommend everyone here. 00:30:10
If you have not already watched a video of Fidel, you should totally look it up. It is unreal. It's it's legit. 00:30:12
So that'll be super fun. 00:30:19
OK. 00:30:26
See if this will come up. 00:30:30
Maybe not. 00:30:39
Here we go. 00:30:46
OK. 00:30:49
So. 00:30:55
Just really quick. 00:30:57
To go through this memorial bench and tree program, this is something I got an idea from. 00:30:59
Salem City, They've had a really. 00:31:04
A successful journey on this of just allowing for residents to honor a loved one. 00:31:07
In a park by. 00:31:13
Donating a bench. 00:31:14
And so I decided to look more into this in the past several conversations with staff. 00:31:16
But essentially the goal. 00:31:23
Of this whole project. 00:31:25
Is just to provide that opportunity for the community to recognize a loved 1 to enhance the beautification of. 00:31:28
Vineyard city parks and trails. 00:31:34
And then potentially. 00:31:36
Moving forward. 00:31:37
We could potentially reduce this from from general fund costs. 00:31:39
Umm, I want to show you the website. 00:31:45
That we have. 00:31:48
So this is accessible through our Vineyard, UT. 00:31:50
Dot Gov website. 00:31:54
Umm, so we have a few different campaigns right now. We have the skate park fundraiser. 00:31:57
But if you just click on the memorial bench program. 00:32:03
You can go in here and see exactly where locations are that we're seeking to build a bench. 00:32:06
Umm, and so if somebody wants to come in here and donate a bench to Grove Park. 00:32:14
They can click on that. 00:32:22
Hit participate now. 00:32:25
They'll go through the steps. 00:32:28
Let's see, maybe go back. 00:32:29
It's a pretty simple process that's going straight through. 00:32:34
But essentially there's like 7 locations right now that have been approved by Vineyard City staff. 00:32:37
Umm and this bench is provided through Treetop. 00:32:44
It's a company that was referred to me through. 00:32:47
Another city. 00:32:50
They just have. 00:32:52
Really solid bench. 00:32:54
For a good price. 00:32:55
And umm, I was told that the typical price that most cities are charging is about 1500. 00:32:57
For a bench. So that's what we're planning to do for this. 00:33:03
So just to get a little bit more into the nitty gritty on this. 00:33:09
I'm going to do the full screen. 00:33:14
OK, so essentially if someone goes in and purchases a bench, they pay $1500? 00:33:17
And along with that they get a plaque. So it'll have a QR code on the plaque. 00:33:23
Umm, there's about 130 characters worth of space that you can. 00:33:29
Have a message or you can have a name, whatever it is that residents want to put. 00:33:34
Pending approval of Vineyard City staff to make sure that. 00:33:39
Everything is good to go with that. 00:33:43
But it allows community members to go through the park, they sit on the bench or walk by, they can scan the QR code and they can 00:33:46
learn a background about the person that the bench is dedicated to. 00:33:51
Umm. And then in order to make this a smooth transition for staff. 00:34:00
We would install the benches twice a year. 00:34:05
So we'd have two time periods of between April 1st and July 31st. That would be the first phase. 00:34:07
And we would have any benches that were. 00:34:15
Claimed We'll go ahead and order those in August. It's about a two week turn around to get those. 00:34:18
And then September, our public works team will go ahead and install that. 00:34:23
They'll have to pour some concrete. 00:34:29
So we've gone out to verify all of the locations to make sure that there's enough space and that it would correlate well with. 00:34:31
The level of the land and everything. 00:34:37
So that would be the first phase and then the next one we would just do August 1st to March 31st and then all of those would be 00:34:40
installed in May. 00:34:44
Umm, that way we just. 00:34:48
I don't have to interrupt the public works team on all the other jobs that they're busy doing. This just kind of gives them a 00:34:51
dedicated time. 00:34:54
And it also allows us to. 00:34:57
Umm, better stay, you know, within that budget of the $1500 with the cost of the bench and everything. 00:35:01
We also have a survey that will be going out. 00:35:09
This Friday. 00:35:13
For the Vineyard community to provide their feedback if there's additional locations that they specifically want to have a bench 00:35:14
placed. 00:35:18
They can voice that. They can also vote on what locations that are provided by staff they prefer. 00:35:23
Umm, and on that same website. 00:35:30
Residents can go in and they can actually propose a specific location and then it will ping staff. 00:35:34
With the message and we can get right back to them. 00:35:42
This is a quick overview on just the cost, right? So they're all six foot benches. 00:35:45
UMM comes with a plaque. 00:35:50
Umm, concrete pads. 00:35:54
Potential shipping that could vary based off of how many. 00:35:56
You know that we order at a time. 00:36:00
And then to also cover the cost of the software. 00:36:03
So that's a little bit about the bench. As far as the trees, I worked with the city arborist George SRAM. 00:36:08
And he specifically picked this tree for the one location that were. 00:36:15
That we have online. 00:36:20
So within the splash pad area there is a. 00:36:22
A grass hill where there's there used to be a tree. 00:36:25
But they'd like to plant some more there. 00:36:30
And this is the specific tree that George recommended based off of his expertise of. 00:36:32
What he feels would be the best fit for. 00:36:37
For that property. 00:36:40
It would kind of follow the exact same protocol as far as the dates go. 00:36:42
And then with the plaque, we would just have like a stanchion stand. 00:36:47
Just so that. 00:36:52
It'll be easy to see and won't. 00:36:55
Mess with the roots of the trees. 00:36:57
And then that's just a basic. 00:37:01
Financial Overview. 00:37:02
And then again there's the. 00:37:06
Website. 00:37:08
So any questions? 00:37:10
Feel free to e-mail me or I can answer them now. 00:37:12
Council, do you have any questions? 00:37:15
Yeah, I have a couple of questions. 00:37:18
Have one I'm curious I think. I think it was in there. I just want to make sure I understood it correctly with the QR code. 00:37:23
Yeah, that would link to a city hosted. 00:37:29
Page correct? 00:37:33
It would go on to this same website. 00:37:35
So let me. 00:37:38
Go back here. 00:37:40
Listing my legacy you have to see my legacy website. 00:37:42
Yeah. So, so my curiosity on that is? 00:37:46
What's the ongoing? 00:37:50
Cost of maintaining that. 00:37:52
Yeah, the cost is $116.00 a month. 00:37:55
For the for the software and that covers as many. 00:38:00
Comment pages this week. 00:38:05
Exactly. 00:38:07
OK, with the QR code, have like the name of the person also like or do you? Would it only have a character? Yeah, it would also 00:38:09
have the name. 00:38:13
Yeah, they could put up to 130 letters or numbers. 00:38:18
On the plaque. And then there will be a cure. Yeah, cool. 00:38:23
What I love about this is that. 00:38:27
We've had this request for some time and the youth councils been working on this and going out and looking for ways to fund it. 00:38:30
And a couple years ago we even had a big request by residents and we were considering attributing a lot of funding to it, but 00:38:36
really have to be careful as we prioritize and so this opportunity. 00:38:43
Serves all of those different groups that really enables the youth councils project and allows them to be leading out in this. 00:38:49
And answers that request that came in from such a big portion of our community. So you've been really thoughtful about it and 00:38:57
really excited to see. 00:39:01
What we can provide the community while still being fiscally minded. Thank you. 00:39:06
Any other comments or thoughts? Is there any reason why we can't do this without the software and just have you buy it? 00:39:12
I auction off a lot of park benches at public surplus in my day. 00:39:20
I know 1500 is a large price and QR codes are pretty easy. In fact I think we own Qualtrics. It does QR codes already. 00:39:24
So why wouldn't you just create a landing page and justice have the city take the money and not get paid the? 00:39:31
$500 a month or. 00:39:36
150 a month. 00:39:38
Of the software, so you think you could just do it? 00:39:40
So just a few things that really make this. 00:39:43
Software valuable #1 is just the fact that it allows people to kind of highlight the specific person that. 00:39:46
They're dedicating the bench too, right? So they can kind of tell their story. It makes it kind of a heritage type feel. 00:39:53
And then I would also say in response to that, just the fact that. 00:39:59
You can specifically verify the pictures of. 00:40:05
Where exactly that bench is going to be located? 00:40:09
What the environment looks like. 00:40:12
And then it also just allows for an easy way to just have accepting payments right through the the software. But there's free QR 00:40:15
code systems that we could just. 00:40:20
I mean this is pretty easy coding to just do that. 00:40:24
You don't think we could? 00:40:27
Jacob Wood could draft up something like that. It's pretty simple stuff. 00:40:29
I just worry I mean it's only 150 bucks off of but a month but. 00:40:33
Like how many months are you going to go selling a bench and. 00:40:37
You know, that's my issue is the software side, the whole idea that the park benches, the QR code, the idea and even putting a 00:40:41
landing page. 00:40:45
On our website, probably should be able to. 00:40:51
Have direct them. 00:40:53
To a URL off of a QR code. 00:40:55
So that's my issue. It's just the software side of things. I like what you're saying, Jake. I, I wonder, I want to explore that 00:40:58
just for a second. 00:41:01
And this was already paid for as a solution to creative solution to address the big ask that we had as a community, right and you. 00:41:06
Took it down from a lot to this very small $1500. What you're doing today is announcing this campaign. 00:41:16
That is part of the see my legacy, right? Yeah. 00:41:24
When does that you said it? 00:41:27
Renews monthly. 00:41:29
It's a yearly thing. It's a yearly thing. So I wonder if Jake, if you could get together with Brian and maybe come up with a plan 00:41:32
for next year and see. 00:41:37
If there's an opportunity to explore your idea and replace this idea. 00:41:43
And see which one actually works out. I think that would be good because today is just a campaign. But maybe if there's a way to 00:41:50
do it ourselves and it's cheaper and still gives us that benefit in the future, that would be incredible. Yeah. Sounds great. OK, 00:41:55
great. 00:42:00
So today then, we're just moving to adopt. 00:42:08
The most, I mean, the campaign is that right? There's no motion. I see a little move to adopt. I'm gonna scratch it out. 00:42:11
All right. Well, that's wonderful. Brian, you were already up here and I noticed that you had another one on the. 00:42:18
On the list, did you want to rotate and take turns? Because we're giving time for Jason. 00:42:25
Yeah. 00:42:31
Come on up, Jason. 00:42:33
I don't know if you guys remember the riveting. 00:42:37
PowerPoint by Dan Miller. 00:42:41
It was over mosquito abatement. 00:42:43
Last, was it in fall that he came and gave us that? I believe so, yeah. Who's trying to rotate? I mean, we try to do it in the 00:42:45
fall, in the spring. 00:42:49
But Jason is taking his place because he retired just this week. 00:42:53
It's crazy. Well, at home we. 00:42:58
Love him and miss him and. 00:43:00
Yeah, definitely. We're excited to work with you though. I'm so happy for him. First of all, he's worked I think 20 something 00:43:02
years in this industry and it's good to see somebody like him finally be able to relax so. 00:43:07
I think he's got some cool things lined up for himself, but. 00:43:12
That's great. 00:43:15
OK, let's see if I can get this to work. 00:43:17
Just bear with me for one second. 00:43:21
OK, great. 00:43:29
All right, Good evening, City Council members and Vineyard City residents. 00:43:30
Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you guys tonight and for your continued support over the years. Like she 00:43:35
mentioned, my name is Jason. 00:43:39
I'm replacing Dan Miller, who had a successful career in Mosquito Bateman. 00:43:43
I've been in the industry for nine years. 00:43:47
And this is actually my first month on the job, so. 00:43:49
Hopefully you can bear with me a little bit, but I'm not going to be nearly as good as Dan presenting, but I'm definitely working. 00:43:52
Hopefully I can be good good by the time I'm. 00:43:55
You know, 20 years into it, but I'm here to provide you guys an update. 00:43:59
On the work we've been doing in Vineyard City, how our program has evolved. 00:44:04
With the goal of working together on a path forward that best supports both the city and the Mosquito Abatement District. 00:44:08
So our mission is pretty simple. It's to protect public health by managing mosquito populations using the most effective. 00:44:15
Efficient and environmentally responsible strategies available so over the past few years. 00:44:22
Our program is involved evolved significant like I mentioned before, we've actually. 00:44:29
Greatly increased or expanded our mosquito control efforts, prioritizing prevention. 00:44:34
By significantly increasing our larviciding efforts. If you guys don't know what larviciding is, it's the. 00:44:40
What kills the mosquitoes in the water? 00:44:45
As opposed to the trucks spraying around in your neighborhood. So we're far more effective. 00:44:47
At getting them in the larval state that we are in the adult stage, just to give you an idea. 00:44:52
Adult mosquito and adult female mosquito that is bitten, say bread for example, can lay up to 300 eggs each time that it. 00:44:57
Goes to goes the way it takes so and that can happen multiple times depending on the species. So it's far more effective to kill 00:45:05
them in the water like I said. 00:45:09
This proactive data-driven shift has made our program stronger. 00:45:14
More efficient and better at reducing mosquito populations with fewer chemicals like I mentioned before. 00:45:18
Here's what our team is actively doing in Vineyard throughout the season. So those little yellow dots represent the five traps 00:45:26
that we have surrounding your city. 00:45:30
And we do weekly mosquito traps, species identification, West Nile virus testing. 00:45:35
And GIS mapping to track mosquito trends. 00:45:42
Again, larviciding, treating standing water using drones, field crews and biking teams. 00:45:46
When I say biking teams, we have teams that. 00:45:53
Treat about 45,000 catch basins and gutters throughout the county. They ride bicycles all summer long and put chemicals into your. 00:45:55
Into your storm drain so. 00:46:02
There's a lot of Culex Pippians that what your vectors for us now that are specific to those storm drains. It's like the 00:46:04
environment they love so. 00:46:08
And again, adult deciding we talked about it a little bit. We also use Chuck mounted clogging. 00:46:14
Use selectively only when our TRAP counts, virus detection, or public health thresholds are met. 00:46:18
Think it's important to understand that we have thresholds and we will not spray until those are met. 00:46:24
To give you an example, this is all on our website but. 00:46:29
To give you an example, we won't call the plane in until we have a threshold of about 1000 mosquitoes on the lake edge in one of 00:46:32
those traps. 00:46:36
Before that, we try and prevent. 00:46:40
The best we can with the trucks and. 00:46:42
Our field workers and things like that, but we do have thresholds put in place. We're not just spraying all over, all over the 00:46:44
place all the time. So it's important to understand that. So the fine. 00:46:49
Has a different threshold than the trucks say it again, the flying has different thresholds than the trucks yes so the the trucks 00:46:53
we're constantly doing surveillance and. 00:46:59
Our thresholds for the trucks are actually pretty small. 00:47:04
Anything over 50 adult mosquitoes in our traps kind of triggers. 00:47:07
A response to go inspect the breeding sites and in fact, if we find a lot of larvae or we're finding a lot of. 00:47:12
Adults in the area, we will spray with the trucks. 00:47:19
With your targeted drone abatement that you guys have been doing at the main core sites, have you had to use your planes? I 00:47:23
haven't seen them out a lot. So last year we did about 7 air sprays for the whole for those season that cost us quite a bit of 00:47:29
money. It's about $10,000 for us to do an airspace. 00:47:35
So this is where the drones actually. 00:47:41
Helped mitigate that. It used to be upwards of like 1012 airspace a summer so. 00:47:43
We do see a significant reduction with the drones and the technology that we're using. 00:47:48
Again, we want to be conscious of what chemicals we're using. 00:47:53
A lot of them are. 00:47:56
Being restricted by the EPA for obvious reasons. So we're trying to adapt and find out things that work. 00:47:57
You know, to keep us environmentally sound. 00:48:04
So I can answer your question. 00:48:06
Thank you. 00:48:08
Just going to go over a couple of the treatments that we do provide. I touched on this a little bit, but we provide. 00:48:10
The larvae siding which is the ones in the water. 00:48:14
Treatment of larvae in water using safe biological agents, triggering the storm drains and catch basins using the same type of 00:48:18
material or, excuse me, chemical. 00:48:22
When I say chemical, just keep in mind this stuff is very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:27
In fact, we put it in horse troughs, things that, things that wildlife drink out of. It's very specific to the mosquito gut. 00:48:32
It's a bacteria that they consume that Burrows a hole through their stomach. 00:48:38
It's on the micro. 00:48:42
Pretty microscopic level so it doesn't affect hardly anything else other than the mosquitoes. Some some black by black fly larvae, 00:48:44
but it's very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:48
That's what we're putting in all the catch basins. 00:48:54
Storm drains as well. So we also use this is the this is the product and talking about this is what we primarily use in our drone. 00:48:56
We treated about 3500 acres last year with the drone, which is about a 300% increase. 00:49:04
From traditional methods since 2022. 00:49:10
Did you say the the base? Oh, there's your active agreed Permethrin base. 00:49:14
Yeah. So this, this one's, this one right here is actually a methoprene based I believe. 00:49:19
The vectormax is the BTI which is the bacterial pores. If you guys care to know I can say a quick story. It's actually it was 00:49:25
discovered in Israel about 100. 00:49:29
100 years ago. 00:49:34
There was number speaking no mosquitoes in this particular area and they found the bacteria in the mud next to this pond. 00:49:36
And they've actually utilized that bacteria to make make these naturally occurring. 00:49:42
I call them chemicals, but this is just a bacteria, this one specifically. 00:49:49
Is there have we have they moved away 100% from no use of Permethrin? 00:49:52
No, we still use the permission that that's going to be in your trucks, that kind of thing, OK. 00:49:57
We use. That's what I thought, yeah. 00:50:03
A lot of Permethrin. 00:50:05
And some I'll cover that right here actually. So the trucks are still doing Permethrin base, yes, which is right here. So we use a 00:50:06
Xanax ready to use, which is the excuse me, it's a pyrethroid, okay. 00:50:13
Yeah, very similar, very different form of family. 00:50:20
So this will use in the trucks. If you guys care to know, it's a Zen of XE4 we're trying to get. 00:50:26
I mean, it's not that we don't want to necessarily spray the trucks, but like I said before, we're trying to get to the source of 00:50:32
the problem, which is in the water, which is I think everyone can agree is a little. 00:50:36
A lot safer for the environment. 00:50:41
Kind of prevents a lot of people from getting mad at us for what we're doing the neighborhood so. 00:50:44
Put the trucks. 00:50:49
OK. Any questions about the chemicals we used before? 00:50:52
Earth thresholds or anything? 00:50:55
OK, I'm going to talk a little bit about. 00:50:58
I'm going to briefly mention the Mitch flies and what they call chinch bugs. 00:51:01
While these insects can be frustrating, especially near lakes and new developments, they are not a disease vector. 00:51:06
And they actually fall outside of our mosquito abatement program. 00:51:13
They are annoying, I agree with you guys, but they are they're not something that we're trying to control. 00:51:16
However, they do kind of, you know. 00:51:23
They have some control when we do the truck spring. 00:51:26
Because the truck is inactive. The way that it works is if it's the wings. 00:51:29
It'll pretty much get into their nervous system. 00:51:32
And take him out so. 00:51:35
That said, we absolutely care about the community's concerns and I'm happy to point residents towards. 00:51:37
Resources and strategies for mitigating those tests. 00:51:42
Just a couple of quick examples. 00:51:45
Limiting outdoor lighting at night. 00:51:49
Midges are strongly attracted to lights using motion activated lighting. 00:51:52
Warm colored bulbs or installing light Shields to reduce attraction could help. 00:51:56
You can keep your windows and doors sealed. Install or repair windows, screens or door sweeps. 00:52:01
Midges are small and can slip through those gaps. 00:52:07
And this goes along with mosquitoes as well, but reduce any moisture around your property. 00:52:11
You know, fix leaky faucets standing water. 00:52:16
Gutters, things like that, that are collecting water, they can breed in those as well. 00:52:19
So that the change books specifically, they're more of like a. 00:52:25
A common garden pest or like your lawn pest, they actually. 00:52:29
Reside in your lawns more than anything else. So your actual grass, they're eating that. 00:52:33
So again, it's something we don't necessarily target, but it's something that if your lawn is turning brown, that's probably 00:52:38
what's happening. So my suggestion there would be to get with. 00:52:42
Maybe these local pest control companies that you want. 00:52:46
OK, just so everyone kind of understands the difference, the mosquito on the left has a proboscis. 00:52:53
It's basically what they used to. 00:52:59
Seek their blood meal. 00:53:02
The Mitch flies, they do look similar, but they're not the same thing. So if you can. 00:53:03
It's hard to tell unless you're kind of up close, but usually. 00:53:08
Mitch flies are going to be more day active and obviously these are more towards the evening time. 00:53:11
We'll talk a little bit about Mitch Flies. 00:53:19
They form large columns that circle upward like that picture. 00:53:21
They're attracted to light. 00:53:25
They will fly in the day and night. 00:53:27
The larvae actually develop in the mud. 00:53:29
Of Utah lake not necessarily the same places as. 00:53:33
Mosquitoes do, which is in the wetland habitat, so. 00:53:36
A lot of these Mitch flies are actually coming from the late edge itself. And we do, we do some mosquito Bateman on the lake edge, 00:53:39
but most of it's in these, you know, the wetland areas, the breeding sites that like the floodplains of the lake. 00:53:44
So that that's what I'm concerned about because the mud, the mud plane is next door to Utah City. And so my biggest concern has 00:53:50
been. 00:53:55
But you're not targeting midge flies. No, we don't. That's what. 00:54:00
Right and that's why I like keep saying is like how is that problem. 00:54:04
I wish they were here because I keep saying that like, sure, that's not going away. 00:54:09
Yeah. And I think it's important to understand that it's probably not going to right live next to the lake it's gonna be part of. 00:54:14
Vineyard City and living next to the lake, I think it is as long as. 00:54:21
As long as it is a problem, but I don't there's not really a solution for Mitch flies themselves. But we are working hard to make 00:54:26
sure the mosquitoes are not a problem. Well, I think it's important. 00:54:31
I think it's important to point out that you are focused on. 00:54:36
Umm, things that do spread disease. Correct, but there are resolves for things like chinch bugs and mesh flies. 00:54:41
People were to focus on. 00:54:50
This is not what you're focusing on because it's about disease. Exactly right. And I get that, but like. 00:54:52
We're trying to get thousands of people to come to an outside area, you know, have a downtown. And like we keep saying, oh, the 00:55:00
county will because the population will come up. And I'm like, I don't think they even target it. 00:55:05
Just as a point of order, I want to make sure that we're focusing on. 00:55:11
Take some time and talking about what you're doing, but you did mention that if you. 00:55:15
Residents or our downtown or anybody had questions about abatement of those types that you could get this information? Yeah, 00:55:21
absolutely. OK. 00:55:24
I don't have any links or QR codes. 00:55:28
A lot of our information can be found on our website. My plan is to post a little bit of. 00:55:32
You know the issues we're dealing with mid flies and options for you. 00:55:38
There's just not a whole lot we can do. They are kind of bystanders and what we. 00:55:43
Doo Doo. I mean for UOB spring and happened to be out. They will die, but that's not what we're actually gonna focus on. You know, 00:55:47
I can't just come to your your parks and spray Mitch buys because it's a it's a nuisance type of thing. But the vectors for sure. 00:55:53
There are companies out there. In fact, my previous employer about nine years ago, you guys could probably reach out to them. I 00:55:59
know they did a little bit of midge fly. 00:56:05
Abatement efforts. 00:56:11
On the North End of the lake. 00:56:12
It's called VDCI, or Vector Disease Control International. 00:56:14
I don't know how effective it was, it was after my time there, but they did do some similar similar treatments like we do, like 00:56:18
larvae siding. 00:56:22
For the Mitch Fly Largo themselves, but I don't know how effective it was. Do you guys, do you guys measure the mud plan because 00:56:27
like into the lake because like. 00:56:32
Right out from. 00:56:37
Even the new City Hall is. 00:56:38
It's like 400 yards of mud. Like it's the three. I mean, it's not been known for 50 years. That's where it's at, like. 00:56:41
Right, the only thing we really monitor is the. 00:56:49
Floodplains and the lake level. 00:56:51
OK. 00:56:53
To this forestry, fire and state land part, it's like, yeah, and we get all of our information from like the Century and Water 00:56:55
Project, that kind of thing. We don't actually do it ourselves. We pull that data. 00:56:59
Partners websites, so. 00:57:05
Any more questions on Mitch Fleischman? OK, so mosquitoes, I mean you guys are pretty aware of what they do, but they become 00:57:08
become aggressive fighters at sundown. 00:57:12
For a few hours and then they go back to bed. 00:57:16
They sleep, they seek blood meals, they're attracted to CO2 and light. 00:57:18
And they lay their eggs mainly in stagnant water, not necessarily by the lake. 00:57:23
On the lake edge, I should say, but yes. Does that make sense? More on the floodplains and the wetlands, yeah. 00:57:28
And most importantly, like we covered their, their, their carriers of diseases, so. 00:57:33
OK. So today with the strength of our larvicide program, enhanced surveillance and better resource management. 00:57:39
We are very confident in our abilities to provide science based. 00:57:45
Environmentally responsible mosquito abatement to your city. 00:57:49
With a focus on larvae siding now being the backbone of our efforts. 00:57:54
It's more targeted, longer lasting, and highly effective at keeping mosquito poppiers populations low. 00:57:58
And another point I want to mention is. 00:58:04
We're committed to treating every city, including Vineyard. 00:58:07
With the same high level standard guided by science and data. 00:58:10
This ensures kind of like fairness among the whole the coal county. 00:58:14
We take you guys. 00:58:18
Numbers and everything into consideration and obviously if they're higher, we're going to prioritize you. 00:58:20
But we can't necessarily just be at your beck and call specifically. Does that make sense? It's all trap based. We've got we've 00:58:25
got numbers to. 00:58:28
To help us make those decisions so. 00:58:33
You know I. 00:58:35
I'm glad that you're being honest with that because having been here for 40 years. 00:58:37
Nevertheless, just call, call, call and I'm like. 00:58:41
Guys, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, that's that's what we that's not the science, right? And if we can't, you just don't. 00:58:44
We don't want to give them false. 00:58:50
Premise of. 00:58:52
It's important, you know? OK, now keep in mind, we do. 00:58:54
We do want the residents, including everybody here that we want you to submit service request. 00:58:58
Which helps with our surveillance, but we also don't want 1000. 00:59:03
Yeah, so. 00:59:07
Well, and I think the great thing is that in the past you've done spot treatments, but like you were going to talk about a little 00:59:08
bit tonight, we integrate your services with our services. 00:59:13
And so there is that joint effort that we're doing together. Yeah. And I'll actually cover that here in just a minute, but. 00:59:18
Umm, just to give you guys an idea of what we've accomplished the last couple of years with the technology advancements. 00:59:25
We've actually reduced our field workers by two. 00:59:30
And we fight. 00:59:33
By doing all the technology advancements we're actually able to check about. 00:59:35
About 200% more spots than we previously have since 2020. 00:59:39
We attribute a lot of that to the drone work and things like that, being more precise with our targeting. 00:59:43
What does this mean for you guys moving forward? 00:59:51
We're going to continue trapping, treating and monitoring Vineyard just as we always have. 00:59:54
We will treat to the maximum allowable rates under product labels when justified by data. 00:59:59
And we will remain fully committed to protecting Vineyard residents. 01:00:05
It's our understanding that you have some funds set aside to aid us in this fight against the fight. 01:00:09
And we are excited to support Vineyard City and utilizing these resources. 01:00:14
Whether that's enhancing public outreach, hosting educational events, organizing school presentations. 01:00:19
I'm happy to help with all of this. I know you guys have a little bit of funding put aside and I've got three sources to do it. 01:00:24
I just don't necessarily have the manpower. So if you guys want to go that right, I'm happy to help you as well. 01:00:30
Thank you. 01:00:37
Almost done. Sorry, I'm probably taking a little longer. I should. What can you guys do? That being said, we're here for a few 01:00:38
ways you guys can protect yourselves so. 01:00:42
Eliminating standing water around your home. 01:00:47
Is key and it serves as the breeding ground for mosquitoes, or it can additionally. 01:00:49
When spending time outdoors, let's make sure we wear proper clothing for that long. Loose fitting types of. 01:00:55
Articles of clothing will help. 01:01:01
That's pretty much it at this point. I don't want to take up too much more of you guys this time, but if you have any. 01:01:05
Questions for him I'm happy to answer. I think I've answered most of them, but. 01:01:11
We can always communicate by e-mail and. 01:01:14
Things of that nature as well. But thank you for everything you guys have done for us over the years and hopefully I can be a. 01:01:16
A good replacement for Dan and a good partnership moving forward. No, we appreciate it. We're really excited about it and we we 01:01:22
appreciate the. 01:01:25
Multi pronged approach that you guys take with coming in educating us. 01:01:29
So that we can help individuals take care of their needs and then integrating your services and extending with our services so 01:01:35
that we can. 01:01:39
Hit this as we. 01:01:44
From every angle as we build our community. 01:01:46
I remember when I first moved here and had to run. 01:01:49
Through the neighborhood when a certain, when you know 8:00 hit and it's so different now and your approach is a lot different, 01:01:52
it's very exciting so. 01:01:57
Umm, I am really grateful that your guys approach is shifting towards larvae and you know. 01:02:05
Because that's the science that we've all known. 01:02:11
My experience of video has been different with mosquitoes. 01:02:16
I was here pre development and all of the wetlands were pastures. 01:02:19
And so because of that, the fact and. 01:02:23
And vegetation was eaten down short. 01:02:26
Meaning the sun could get to the soil, the soil could dry out. 01:02:29
Or pool in open water. Open water allowed birds and others to eat it. 01:02:34
And until I was 18, we weren't known as the Mosquito Capital world. 01:02:39
And then and then out of blue. 01:02:43
When developers came in. 01:02:46
The promises of maintaining those pastures. 01:02:48
And having senses. 01:02:52
Put around them and maintain. 01:02:53
To not have that. 01:02:56
Our wetland corridor is a jungle and though it looks beautiful, with really tall weeds. 01:02:58
It's the infestation infestation of our larva. 01:03:03
And we drive by it. 01:03:07
And with our chemicals? 01:03:10
Thinking that. 01:03:12
We're going to kill the ones that are flying when thousands of them are sitting there being born for. 01:03:13
48 hours later. 01:03:18
Could we do you guys help cities put together? 01:03:20
AI know an infrastructure costs a little bit to get rid of the thatch. 01:03:26
You know, I don't know. 01:03:31
We're talking about many different pastures, the gammon, the ray. I mean, there's different water sources. I don't know what 01:03:32
they're named now in the city, but. 01:03:36
Do you help in saying hey for this? 01:03:41
This is what we recommend this because it's cheaper to do it that way. 01:03:45
Yeah, like they put a plan together assuming and I'm I'll have to double check because we all know that. 01:03:49
That's one of our reliable breeding sites, so. 01:03:55
That kind of effort is ongoing already, OK. If you guys wanted to be more involved with that. 01:03:59
I'd welcome that and we can definitely just. 01:04:06
I'm sorry, is that missing public structure? Just want to interject that. 01:04:12
You are with our partnership with Utah County Public Health. 01:04:19
Developing our stormwater master plan and also working on our stormwater systems for the maintenance cycle and fixing the 01:04:25
detention ponds so there's no outstanding water. Also the residents helping with. 01:04:30
Ensuring that there's nothing wrong your backyards and of course if they have any questions on that type of things. 01:04:36
This staffer Utah County is more than welcome to come there I. 01:04:41
I grew up and worked as power structure for many years and and the Miss Gilchrist Capital of the world, Orlando, FL and there's 01:04:46
lots of ways to mitigate mosquitoes. 01:04:51
In terms of ensuring that you have a healthy, sustainable infrastructure. 01:04:57
And like for example, Disney, Disney World has definitely. 01:05:01
Benchmarked the scale control they own, eliminating skills. They just control mosquitoes over there. 01:05:05
But definitely. 01:05:11
Those type of things like our stormwater master plan, which is in the works right now. 01:05:12
Is definitely a kind of on focus on ensuring that we get our storm water. 01:05:15
It flows properly, all the infrastructure is being maintained. 01:05:20
And then when it goes to Utah, the Utah lake. 01:05:24
When I say development, but smart development along Utah Lake. 01:05:28
Will actually help with mosquito control. I wouldn't say elimination. There are a healthy part of our ecosystem. 01:05:31
Yeah. Just just my two cents on that. Yeah. And we've been really grateful for the partnership that you guys have had and Dan has 01:05:39
shared a lot of that mapping with us and worked really well with our team. So over the years we've been able to build that so. 01:05:44
Thank you so much for coming and sharing and. 01:05:51
Well, we'll let you go for tonight. We'll come back with hard headed questions all summer. 01:05:54
So. 01:05:59
All right. Thanks so much, Jason. 01:06:00
All right, Brian, you're back. 01:06:03
Wait and break that. 01:06:10
Thanks for letting me go twice in one night. 01:06:14
Absolutely. 01:06:17
Let's see. 01:06:39
Wait, maybe just while it's loading, just to grip a little bit of background, so. 01:06:51
Some of you may be aware there's been a lot of interest in offering. 01:06:57
Concessions that grow park we. 01:07:01
Umm, we get people that will just. 01:07:05
Go and sell their own stuff or. 01:07:07
We'll have vendors that will show up in. 01:07:10
Wanting to sell? 01:07:12
And so we really feel like. 01:07:13
It's time to. 01:07:16
Did I do some research and show this to you guys and get your feedback? 01:07:18
As far as what to do with that? 01:07:22
Obviously the goal is to provide something that's. 01:07:28
Effective, safe, fiscally responsible. 01:07:32
Ideally something that's easy to manage. 01:07:36
And, umm. 01:07:39
Allows for residents to come to the park and stay in the park. Want to be there? 01:07:41
Um, before I jump into potential. 01:07:47
Solutions. 01:07:52
I just wanted to show this AI placer. 01:07:53
Data that we have from 2024 at Grove Park. 01:07:57
I just have it specified per two months. 01:08:03
Umm, so between April and September? 01:08:06
Of last year we had about 113,000 visits at. 01:08:10
Grove Park in particular. 01:08:15
Which if you average that out per day, is about 617. 01:08:17
Visits. 01:08:22
As a long term type solution. 01:08:25
What ideally staff thinks would be great is having a permanent space. 01:08:30
That we could potentially lease out to a contractor. 01:08:36
There's a number of cities that. 01:08:40
That do this or have done this. 01:08:42
Cedar Hills in particular is one that do it, currently at their park with a splash pad. 01:08:45
Umm, but essentially the idea of this would be to build like a 2 to 400 square foot. 01:08:50
Permanent building at Grove Park, just right near the pavilions. 01:08:58
I've overheard from. 01:09:04
Some of these vendors that the ideal location is the 50 yard line, right so. 01:09:06
This is like right and right smack in the middle of the splash pad. And so for them this would really. 01:09:11
Allow them to. 01:09:17
Be visible and and reach a lot of. 01:09:18
Park visitors. 01:09:21
Umm, so essentially. 01:09:22
Umm, the idea is to potentially have them, you know, be the park from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:09:26
They just pay a flat fee. 01:09:34
Rather than upfront, I've actually. 01:09:36
Received words since creating this PowerPoint. 01:09:39
It would be preferred to do a monthly. 01:09:41
Charge just so that it's not such a big fee right up front. 01:09:43
Umm, the nice thing about this is just the fact that it could be a decent revenue source providing. 01:09:50
Concessions to. 01:09:55
The residents that they want. 01:09:57
Options. 01:09:59
Umm, the reason I say this is a long term solution is because of the cost. 01:10:01
It would potentially cost about 75 to 130,000 for the design and construction work. 01:10:06
Umm And then as far as regulations, some things I think we need to consider is. 01:10:13
Limiting the amount of music, or at least the level of. 01:10:19
Volume, thank you. 01:10:24
Umm, ensuring that we have something in place to prevent them from walking around. 01:10:28
Trying to sell their items to individual members throughout the park. 01:10:34
Not allowing specific signage around the park except for in designated areas. 01:10:38
And then ensuring that the contractor would handle all taxes they would. 01:10:45
Provide proof of through food handlers permit. 01:10:50
And then also obtain a Vineyard City business license. So that's a potential long term solution we foresee. 01:10:54
Umm, in order to justify that. 01:11:00
We have a few short term options. 01:11:04
The first one is to do a food truck permit system. 01:11:07
Umm, the idea with this is again that we would just have a specific contracted. 01:11:11
Period of time, whether that be two months or six months. 01:11:17
And umm, we just allow the food trucks to come. 01:11:21
Any day, at any time between that specific time frame. 01:11:25
So when it works best for them, they just pay a flat fee, ideally monthly. 01:11:30
And these are not set costs. This is just kind of a concept idea, so we don't have to stick to this. 01:11:36
If you guys wanted to go this route, but essentially you could charge, you know, a food truck up to. 01:11:43
$1500 per truck. 01:11:49
For a 2 month period, or if you did all six months, you could triple that. 01:11:51
Umm, the benefits of this? 01:11:55
Very low maintenance on. 01:11:58
On staffing side of things. 01:12:00
Umm, you can get a variety of different concession. 01:12:03
Offerings right you can have. 01:12:07
Food trucks that offer. 01:12:08
Corndogs Pizza. 01:12:11
Whatever it might be. And then also you have desserts. 01:12:13
Umm, this would be a pretty good revenue source for the city. 01:12:17
Umm, having multiple food trucks would allow several different vendors to be involved. 01:12:22
Umm. And then just. 01:12:29
Kind of some things that would come with that is the fact that. 01:12:33
What I would propose is that we actually restripe the 9:00. 01:12:36
Parking stalls that are on the South of the parking lot at Grove Park. 01:12:42
And we install 4 to 5 bollards. 01:12:46
That would have changed. That would connect them that we would then give a key to each of the food trucks that they could come in 01:12:49
and then they could leave. So essentially that area would not be accessible to residents. We would restripe it so that there's 01:12:55
three designated areas specifically for food trucks. 01:13:01
And the specific reasoning for that spot is with it being close to. 01:13:09
A number of amenities and. 01:13:13
So that's one option. 01:13:17
Option 2 is we allow for a temporary space. 01:13:21
To be leased out to a contractor. 01:13:27
So for example, there's a number of food trucks. 01:13:29
Or vendor companies that have a trailer. 01:13:33
Or a kiosk that they could potentially. 01:13:36
Uh, place at Grove Park. So I sorry, it's kind of hard to see, but just right next to where the Grove Park garage is just on that 01:13:38
southwest side. 01:13:43
Umm, we would have the. 01:13:47
Parks and Public Works team pour a concrete slab there. 01:13:51
That would allow the vendor to then park the kiosk or the trailer. 01:13:55
Right there. 01:14:01
Which would put them right about the 50 yard line. 01:14:02
For, say, for the splash pad. 01:14:07
And then kind of the same idea at 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:14:10
Probably just have one vendor for the whole summer. 01:14:13
Umm, let's see the pros of this one. Obviously you wouldn't have to. 01:14:19
Eliminate some of the parking stalls. 01:14:23
Umm, some of the cons. I mean, you're limiting your. 01:14:26
Variety of concessions that you can offer. 01:14:31
It's only allowing one company. There's going to be really high competition with that. 01:14:35
Umm, we would potentially lose a couple trees that are. 01:14:40
Specifically planted in that area. 01:14:43
And then we would have to provide. 01:14:46
Ideally. 01:14:49
For the contractors is provide the utilities that they need for that location, which is estimated about $5000 for us to. 01:14:50
Make that accessible to them. 01:14:58
That's option 2. 01:15:02
Option 3 is just a combination of both. 01:15:03
Umm, so you kind of get maybe the best of both worlds with that, right? You get the. 01:15:07
Food trucks and you get the one that's. 01:15:12
Short term tentative snack shack. 01:15:15
Just right there by the splash pad. 01:15:18
Umm. So I'm open to any feedback questions. I'll see if you guys have on that. So to clarify, option one. 01:15:21
Umm, you could have several businesses selling in that one building. 01:15:31
How do you like? Would you have like a window on each side or something or how does that work? 01:15:37
Let's see so. 01:15:42
And it's so it's not option one. I'm talking about how you were talking about. 01:15:45
Sorry. 01:15:49
There's the smaller area that would just allow one vendor. 01:15:50
While there's the bigger shock that you're saying it would allow multiple vendors. 01:15:53
No. So the shack would just allow only one vendor. 01:15:58
Umm, the food trucks. We could have multiple food trucks. 01:16:02
OK, I get what you're saying. 01:16:07
Yeah, but but in the long term solution that would be 1 vendor currently. 01:16:08
I think that's what is that what you're trying to get to Marty? There's room for three food trucks on the South end of the parking 01:16:17
lot, room for one snack shack on the path that they would. I guess I was just confused by. 01:16:23
And the thing that says short term option too. 01:16:29
Maybe I need to understand that one better because I see the smaller. 01:16:32
Lot this. It was the harder one to find. 01:16:36
And you're saying just right there, it's a smaller space that would be more affordable? 01:16:40
Right. And it's just, yeah. So essentially. 01:16:45
Yeah, we would only have just the one vendor, no food trucks. So just the one vendor we would allow. We would pour a concrete 01:16:50
slab. We would bring the utilities over so they have access to power. 01:16:55
And then they would run all the concessions for. 01:17:01
The whole summer. 01:17:03
Knowing that that would probably be limited to probably drinks and. 01:17:06
Maybe shaved ice or just one just a few items in particular. 01:17:10
On the short term option. 01:17:16
Does he need more clarity? Well, hold on, hold on. Jake, did you need more clarity? OK, go ahead on the short term option. 01:17:18
I like it. 01:17:27
To start off with, because let's just test it out and see how profitable and have a conversation with the vendor and see is the 01:17:29
business profitable before you do an investment, right? 01:17:34
But the thing that would be awesome is if. 01:17:39
They could get power because generators. 01:17:41
At a park and hitting aren't great. 01:17:44
You know, so there's no option. 01:17:47
At that, look right there where it could be temporary. 01:17:49
Give them access to power. Oh, there is there, so there's power. 01:17:52
They would need, we would need to pull it over for them to access that so they're not going through the building. 01:17:58
Is there any way we could do temporary? 01:18:04
But with power and the ulterior plan to do that so it wouldn't have to be a loud generator by the pool. 01:18:06
So maybe just to clarify really quick. So with this option, we would bring the utilities that would potentially be about $5000 01:18:14
cost. 01:18:18
But then the potential revenue we would charge from the contract would be about 5000. So we basically break even with this option. 01:18:22
To answer your question here. 01:18:29
Jake, yes, this this option does provide that power source so they don't have to run a generator at this site. 01:18:31
Yeah, I think perhaps the best is. 01:18:37
Don't do anything big. 01:18:39
Give him power. 01:18:40
Allow them to see if it's profitable. 01:18:42
But even then, like let's say it's not, you have power to that location and chances are during Vineyard days or something. 01:18:44
You might actually need to run different things with power from there anyway, right? You could. 01:18:50
Because right now the power is coming out of the building. 01:18:57
And then would you put a separate meter on that and have them pay it or? 01:19:00
When you ran it or? 01:19:05
Umm, I think we could. 01:19:09
Incorporate something into the contract that would be something we could figure out. 01:19:11
So seeing how you are the Parks and Rec guy. 01:19:18
And you have studied this out what? What's your opinion? 01:19:21
Yeah, I think this would definitely be, I mean. 01:19:25
If it were me, I think it would be valuable to have a combination of both. 01:19:30
Just so that we can kind of compare and see. 01:19:37
What is? 01:19:41
The most effective? 01:19:42
I think that the benefit of this is that it does allow. 01:19:44
Various food options. It's not just limiting to just one. 01:19:48
And I've reached out to several different food vendors and. 01:19:52
Several of them have reached out saying they want to do it. 01:19:57
And so the interest is definitely there. 01:20:01
Umm, this would be my recommendation, but I'm open to. 01:20:04
That one makes it more interesting. 01:20:12
Because people love the food trucks and you can bring in a variety of different things. 01:20:14
To appeal to different people. 01:20:18
This also can help us. 01:20:20
Not only cover our costs, but have. 01:20:23
Additional revenue as well, whereas if we just did just the one temporary shack. 01:20:26
We're likely to just break even. 01:20:31
Umm, but then also that could allow us to see what the community is specifically interested in. Are they interested in just drinks 01:20:34
or? 01:20:38
Shaved ice Or are they also interested in corn dogs or churros or? 01:20:42
Is this like the food truck permit? Is this? 01:20:46
Year long or this is just the high season? 01:20:51
So this would just be during the summer months, so between April 1st and September 30th. 01:20:54
Just since those are the most. 01:21:01
I think that would make it worth their time to come to the park. 01:21:03
What are you thinking about bringing this back to us? 01:21:09
Umm, I can do it whenever I was thinking. 01:21:16
The next meeting or potentially the last one in May, OK. 01:21:17
I just want to make sure we were on your timeline so that we can really delve into this and prioritize. 01:21:21
For the Council, what they need to be going back looking at. 01:21:27
Making sure that they're getting feedback to Brian. 01:21:30
So that we can. 01:21:34
Make sure that you're prepared for that. 01:21:37
Yeah, well. 01:21:39
So it's $1000 a year up front. 01:21:41
For the food trucks, yes, that's an approximate. So that would be to like install the bollards and. 01:21:46
To restripe the. 01:21:54
And parking stalls and you've got. 01:21:56
I think the thing that I would want is a kind of a, not a commitment. You wouldn't commit a contract or anything like that, but 01:21:58
like. 01:22:01
I don't know how you'd say that MOMOUI just thought of a. 01:22:05
It's all going to go down to can they be profitable, right? 01:22:10
Yeah, but at the end of the day, we're out. How much for trying to bring food in? 01:22:17
Just kind of a. 01:22:21
Nice thing, right? Yeah, Amenity. 01:22:23
I'm wanting to implement. 01:22:27
Yes, this year like. 01:22:28
Right now. 01:22:31
If we can, that'd be great. I think the public would love it. 01:22:31
All right, Well, I don't think it has to be immediate. I think we can definitely take time and. 01:22:36
Over the next month. 01:22:43
OK, Council, why don't you go ahead and look through this? 01:22:45
And find your feedback and then Brian, why don't you reach out to the council this week and. 01:22:49
We'll start giving you that feedback to see when we'll pull you back onto the agenda. I'm just gonna save some time for you, 01:22:56
Brian. I think it's great and I think that I'm excited to see. 01:23:00
Let's move forward. 01:23:06
That's great. You too. 01:23:08
OK, well. 01:23:09
Thank you. I'm going to move on to the next one and we will get back to you with our feedback. 01:23:12
Awesome. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for all of your hard work on that. I know it's a big priority for our residents. 01:23:17
All right. Naseem, our Public Works Works Director, will talk about the CMC Vineyard Center design update. 01:23:24
I I. 01:23:39
3, 3333. 01:23:55
All right, so thank you, evening council members. Uh. 01:24:13
So as the. 01:24:17
Council As the RDA and State Council meeting went on and on, I found myself without more time to ask some more slides so. 01:24:19
I really appreciate that. We appreciate the extra time. 01:24:27
So no, that's definitely hard to come after Brian Baldwin. Definitely do respect him and he does a great job with all the programs 01:24:30
he does. 01:24:33
So I always say. 01:24:38
How it works we're always there to support people. Parks Direct, you know they're the face and make everyone happy and fellow 01:24:39
works so. 01:24:42
You know, we're happy to be. 01:24:45
You know, helping out. 01:24:47
So. 01:24:50
Doing the Vineyard City, excuse me, the Vineyard Center project update and also talk a little bit about the delivery process in 01:24:51
regards to. 01:24:55
How the Vineyard Center is progressing forward. 01:25:00
Here it is again. It's not just a individual effort, it's a group effort. So it's just recognizing a few people. 01:25:04
Who's put a lot of time and effort into this so. 01:25:11
There we go. OK, so just an overview, we're going to talk about the CMGC process. Our delivery method clarifies some procurement 01:25:18
tab. 01:25:21
Procurement processing clients. The benefits of early contractor involvement. 01:25:25
And then jump right into the Vineyard Center project development, and of course, talk about city planning and budgeting practices. 01:25:29
So let's look. 01:25:36
Kind of exciting. 01:25:39
So first let me just talk about what is the CMGC. 01:25:41
Sometimes I do a tongue twister on that I call GC. 01:25:46
Myself but it is construction manager, general contractor. 01:25:49
That's what it stands for. 01:25:54
It's a two phase project delivery method. The first phase is phase #1. 01:25:56
Pre construction and then phase #2 is construction. So phase #1 deals a lot with design, collaboration, costing but. 01:25:59
And Phase 2 is construction, is the actual construction implementation. 01:26:07
Portion of the project and that's again that's usually that's done. 01:26:13
After there's a future based on future approval. 01:26:18
What CMGC? There we go. 01:26:22
It does is provide that one emphasis does provide guaranteed maximum price. 01:26:25
Often called a GMP. 01:26:29
That's done, and that's given before construction. 01:26:32
It just doesn't allow the. 01:26:35
The municipality the the procurement procurement entity. 01:26:38
To focus on qualify on a qualification based contractor selection. 01:26:42
Oftentimes we go into construction practices. 01:26:48
Low, low cost, low cost. 01:26:52
Oftentimes, umm. 01:26:54
You know that is. That's not typically the best method. 01:26:56
On there so it does allow for qualification best contractor selection. 01:27:00
Which is how? 01:27:04
Design contracts are done is through an RFQ which is request for qualifications versus R. 01:27:07
He requests for proposals. 01:27:14
And the key thing on this is the owner does retain design control. 01:27:17
Over this process. 01:27:21
There we go. So moving on to what is this CMGC? I sold this. 01:27:26
Chart thank you from the Federal Highway administration who actually. 01:27:35
Advocates for CMGC as a contract method, so the contractor has. 01:27:40
Contractor acts as a consulting during the design. 01:27:45
Once the projects complete, the CMGC does did the work, so they are actively bidding to do the job. 01:27:48
So it's not an automatic. 01:27:55
Selection of the CMGC. 01:27:57
To do the construction for the work. 01:27:59
This allows the owner to make important decisions throughout the design using the using contractor input. 01:28:02
On that SO. 01:28:09
Pretty nice, the benefit and here's a slide that shows about the benefits for using it on municipal projects. 01:28:11
It does provide early cost certainty through that guaranteed maximum price. 01:28:18
It allows for acceleration of the schedule through a phased delivery. 01:28:23
If so, desireth. 01:28:28
One great one nice thing is it does help with risk reduction. 01:28:30
To provide for constructability review and early coordination or for construction. 01:28:34
Through the design period I speak, you know, I speak from personal experience. 01:28:40
Having worked as a genius manager for doing construction designs. 01:28:44
Asked having it built. 01:28:51
After, I've often had to send designs back to the design engineer. 01:28:52
To let them know that it looks pretty on paper. But you cannot build this. And that's one engineer from another engineer saying 01:28:56
that your thing is not going to be built. 01:29:00
I have one engineer said that was their job just to design it. My job to design figure out how to build it. 01:29:05
I figured out how to build it by time to apply to get a different engineer. 01:29:10
And they did. And it does allow for fewer change orders and reworking during the construction. 01:29:15
So again, it allows you to spot those issues with those areas where it could be issues. 01:29:21
Construction brings in the subject matter expert construction into the process early on. 01:29:27
Because change orders does happen. 01:29:34
But it's nice to identify what. 01:29:36
What the changes could be before? 01:29:40
It's during before the construction process so it doesn't become a change order. It's part of the design. 01:29:42
Contract collaboration on materials, needs and methods. 01:29:47
Again, means and methods is definitely something that determines the determines the constructability of the project. 01:29:51
It does throughout the whole thing does provide the public transparency and procurement flexibility. 01:29:58
To say you know. 01:30:02
We're doing the designs being done. 01:30:05
With contractor input to provide for. 01:30:07
Better understanding of how to implement. 01:30:11
The project helped to reduce costs. 01:30:13
By taking those future with would likely be change orders. 01:30:15
And incorporating them into design early on and allowing the. 01:30:19
Other issues the 2nd 3rd order effects. 01:30:23
Of those change or future change orders to be eliminated by. 01:30:27
Incorporating them into either corporate, into design, or even making good decisions. 01:30:30
You know what? 01:30:35
We're not. We only need to do this because we can do. 01:30:36
That instead. 01:30:38
Talking about purchasing policy like on that especially for compliance. 01:30:42
Here's a snapshot of our local purchasing policy. The City's purchasing policy update in 2022 sets the guidelines to ensure 01:30:47
transparency. 01:30:51
Efficiency. Legal compliance. 01:30:55
It does specify spending authority by dollar amount. 01:30:58
In regards and and for the approvals. 01:31:02
Small purchases made directly through their formal clothes. Higher purchases requires formal bidding. 01:31:06
Public solicitation of evaluation. So this is was done in 2022 and just a snapshot of that. 01:31:12
It's more going more in regards to. 01:31:21
The compliance in terms of purchasing or the procurement process? 01:31:26
The Federal Highway Administration, The DLT on the CFR. 01:31:31
To the federal regulations, Title 23. 01:31:35
So forth those Alpha and CMGC contract as a procurement method. 01:31:38
More so. 01:31:44
The Utah code. 01:31:45
Procurement code specifically. 01:31:47
Does outline the CMGC? 01:31:48
As a recommend, excuse me as a. 01:31:50
Procurement method. They also talk about design bit build which is your traditional method of. 01:31:54
As well as design build. 01:32:00
I have a question. Is anyone arguing that the. 01:32:04
CMGC model on the console. 01:32:08
I'm having issues with it. Is that why we're getting the presentation for this? No, I'm just going through the going through the 01:32:12
process just to ensure kind of to put it out there in regards to how the CMTC incorporates into it, if you'd like me to skip this 01:32:18
all together. No, I was just wondering if there was some controversy or some questions about it. 01:32:24
That they. 01:32:30
L OK, OK now. 01:32:31
I just want and I do. I do recall having done. 01:32:34
A presentation about early in the year when we were doing the. 01:32:38
Design portion of it. 01:32:42
Where I went through the contracting methods and so forth, I felt that I can't find my slides. 01:32:44
I won't want to redo the slides just for that reason. 01:32:48
But uh. 01:32:51
In terms of those, I thought it was appropriate just to kind of put them back in there again, recognizing that we may have people 01:32:52
from the public that may not have been present during my last awesome presentation. 01:32:57
So. 01:33:04
But yeah, so if there's no other questions, I'll move on. So examples of CMGC and the local government. 01:33:06
Provost City Center built in 2022. 01:33:14
Or Senate City Center built just as recent 2025. 01:33:16
Not really focused just on building this also can be used for other type of infrastructure I used. 01:33:20
We put up Orem Hillcrest Park was done through CNGC, built in 2023. 01:33:26
There's other methods other examples out there such as. 01:33:31
A large infrastructure projects bridges. 01:33:35
And highways etc. 01:33:38
So jumping in kind of more into Venice Center specific on the project. 01:33:44
Just to do a recap in terms of. 01:33:48
The timeline for the project on this. 01:33:52
Where the precise selection and design portion of it. 01:33:55
I wasn't here for us about back in 2019. 01:33:58
About 1 1/4 acres of land donation. 01:34:02
For a City Hall site. 01:34:05
There was an agreement for that back in October 2019. 01:34:07
And that was. 01:34:11
Agreed to be done part of the downtown area in 2000. April 2020, again prior to my time. 01:34:14
The Town Center zoning code identified. 01:34:21
The City Hall site. 01:34:25
Being specifically in blocks. 01:34:26
65. 01:34:28
Boxes I, you know, yeah. So I still use Google Maps to go around my own city. 01:34:30
Real quick I'm having a hard time like seeing the slides. Is there any way someone could e-mail it to me real quick so I can look 01:34:37
at my computer? 01:34:41
Yeah, I sent you. 01:34:46
I just like can't see it over there and I'm getting like glare right here. So cash consent cash will send you the non update 01:34:47
slides. I sent in the slides before I can just. 01:34:53
OK, I did add three more. 01:35:00
So, but kind of moving on to I won't be able to see it I. 01:35:04
It's too small for me. 01:35:08
Thank you for trying. 01:35:10
Sorry. All right, so again back in 2020. 01:35:15
The Town Center Arizona code identified the sites in the downtown area believe block. 01:35:19
Five if some are mistaken. 01:35:24
On that SO. 01:35:26
Fast forwarding June 2023, the city awarded Nelson Partners for to develop a spatial plan. 01:35:28
And spatial plan was present to City Council. 01:35:35
And May 2024. 01:35:39
And then shortly and a few months later to November 20, 2024. 01:35:41
The city signs that MO sign that MO use. 01:35:46
With Magnolton Association governments. 01:35:49
As well as the design services of our RFP. 01:35:52
Was posted, so when I say the design services, actually that's the actual designing of the building. 01:35:56
For construction documents. 01:36:02
That design services was awarded to, not the studios. 01:36:04
Earlier this year, January 2025. 01:36:08
Some some tourists were done to get a better understanding of. 01:36:11
Needs and requirements with Matt about the association, government and also. 01:36:16
Of our current projects. 01:36:21
Special plans for our. 01:36:22
And we're responding to functional spaces. So instead of taking spatial plans like bubbles on the bubbles on a piece of paper and 01:36:25
start making more functional spaces. 01:36:30
Uh, here is a visual of the veneer center. 01:36:37
Spatial Design. 01:36:42
I was showing the site in the downtown area. 01:36:44
Just north of the promenade. 01:36:48
Where we close to where we had our tree event. 01:36:50
Last Friday, so very beautiful area. 01:36:54
That was completed in April 2024, presented City Council. 01:36:57
And this incorporated a 10 year space requirements plan. 01:37:01
Not just for the bigger city staff. 01:37:05
But also for the Mountain Association group governments. 01:37:09
And also public use space, A warehouse, you know. 01:37:13
Possible tenant spaces, council chambers, et cetera, et cetera. 01:37:18
So again, um. 01:37:22
As a programming analysis moving forward to what we currently are. 01:37:24
In the process I say draft and process. 01:37:28
Going to. As you can see, this is functional spaces, uh. 01:37:32
Spatial. 01:37:37
Designs. 01:37:39
Were the Venner city architecture design again still being done in coordination of Mountain Association governments of inner city? 01:37:40
Staff were. 01:37:48
And about a 10% design currently. 01:37:50
With you know when I say 10% conceptual. 01:37:52
And ensuring that we have, I mean our 10 year space requirements next slide. 01:37:55
And Councilmember, I know that these are newer slides. 01:38:02
Here we go, I love this. 01:38:08
But again, just kind of blow up again. 01:38:10
Designs and processes at level 1. 01:38:13
Where you see the council chambers on the first floor. 01:38:16
Mountain Association Governments warehouse on the first floor. 01:38:19
Boost market boosts like areas for markets in the 1st 4. 01:38:23
You know, pre an area for a conference room kitchen. 01:38:28
My kitchen Small kitchen area. 01:38:32
Most council chambers does that for small events as well. 01:38:35
Umm, that, you know, cafe seating and, uh. 01:38:40
Really trying to utilize the space for to be able to kind of to help intermix the public. 01:38:43
Provide that for the public. Again, this is a work in progress. You may be able to do some. 01:38:50
Functional, other functional spaces in Belltown in the first floor as well. So just to clarify, so it looks like we took city 01:38:55
chambers. 01:38:59
I'm sorry, the council chambers from the 2nd floor now it's on the first floor. 01:39:04
That's currently where we're at. 01:39:08
Was what? 01:39:10
And then we don't have what else? Oh, we don't have the library on the 1st floor anymore. 01:39:12
We don't have to elaborate on this, not this one. Now again, this is a draft design in process. I mean, when I say in process. 01:39:17
Bring us all 10% designs on here so. 01:39:25
You mentioned the development agreement 2019. Does anyone have that ready? They just e-mail me. I mentioned development agreement. 01:39:29
The development agreement. 01:39:36
I said there was an agreement. Well, it's just an agreement. 01:39:39
So I just mentioned that I wasn't here. So is there like on your slide you said that there was a development agreement in 2019? 01:39:43
I said there was a 2 neck quarter acre land donation for City Hall agreement. 01:39:51
Oh, no development agreement, OK. Just like, hey, one day we'll do this, OK? I did not say that, Sir. 01:39:57
I said that there was an agreement. There was an agreement, a land donation for sale agreement in October 2019 and an outside 01:40:03
development agreement that I did. I'll say verbal agreement. 01:40:08
And I did. I didn't preface that that was this was before my time, OK, so I can't speak on exactly what was here for my time. 01:40:14
When we met in April, we hadn't. 01:40:21
There's no land donation agreement in April, though. 01:40:24
Eric right, Like do we have? 01:40:28
The donation agreement. 01:40:30
Yet for the land. 01:40:32
Like the document, are you referring to what was agreed to in in 2019 or are you referring to like now? 01:40:35
Or actually there. 01:40:44
Well, just in it some sort of MO U or. 01:40:45
Development agreement like. 01:40:48
Even if it's conditional it. 01:40:51
So you're just trying to find record of it, right? Yeah. They're like, hey, this is what we agreed with the with the zoning code. 01:40:54
Arizona code. 01:41:02
What is done in coded analysis? We can send you that from 2019 Pam. Can you make sure that? 01:41:03
Oh, you have a donation agreement? 01:41:10
Right. There's whatever that. Yeah, not a building. Yeah. OK, OK. Thanks, Kash. Thank you. 01:41:13
So did I clarify your question? Yeah. All right. Thank you, Kash. 01:41:19
All right, so kind of going back into my thing. So again, level 1. 01:41:23
Is there any questions on this department to level 2? 01:41:28
I'm not going to dwell too much on each level, just to go and give you an idea. One that I just wanted to mention is people are 01:41:31
thinking about it because I know where you already brought it up once the the. 01:41:37
I'm making an assumption about why the council chambers moved to the first floor. 01:41:44
And my guess is that that's for ADA consideration. 01:41:48
Largely, yes, I mean, so 88 consideration for the first floor, I mean again it removes a lot of something. 01:41:52
Say an elevator. 01:42:00
Gets in the way of. 01:42:01
Access. Exactly. Seriously, my last city in Florida. 01:42:03
Capital World was a. 01:42:08
The council members on the 3rd floor and we had four police officers. 01:42:10
For because we had other areas in the City Hall. 01:42:14
Offices over there. 01:42:17
When we did our expansion project there, we moved it to the first floor as it's almost as a separate building, a separate wing. 01:42:19
It was very it was nice and beneficial. 01:42:26
But because again, when the elevator goes down. 01:42:29
It's not appropriate to be carrying someone up and down the stairs. 01:42:33
But OK, so if I understand this correctly as as things have gone on. 01:42:36
Even just from the last meeting, there's been design changes or just. 01:42:44
Adjustments as they've gotten into the weeds on it, yeah, there's been discussions on the designs and regard regards to needs and 01:42:49
so forth. Cancer. 01:42:52
Meeting requirements. 01:42:56
My understanding too is that there are going to be community outreaches. 01:42:58
Where they where they get public input? Yeah. So yeah, that would be, that definitely would be the. 01:43:02
Of our discussion in terms of that, really like to take it from more from the 10% design. 01:43:08
To something that. 01:43:13
I mean if I'm 20% is on there typically 30% designs is really when you start engaging. 01:43:14
My daughters like your last. 01:43:20
Other stakeholders like your outside stakeholders, I'll say about. 01:43:23
Who aren't occupying the space 100%. 01:43:27
At a time, there are, there has been. 01:43:29
Outreach to others like to certain types of stakeholders. 01:43:32
You know, they're actively using, we get a 30% design, then you kind of like. 01:43:36
You kind of start. 01:43:39
Like if you're molding a sculpture of clay. 01:43:41
You know, you just you and then you're like, OK. 01:43:44
What what specific features you want and you really want to set the foundation? 01:43:47
Of the design and then you can start bringing in incorporating things. 01:43:52
On there because now that you said, here's our I'll say like this. 01:43:56
I did this for several years. Like you can't say where are your needs. 01:44:02
Determine what the needs are first and then. 01:44:05
That sets up your foundation. Then you go into. 01:44:08
I hate to say wants, but if you go into those things that. 01:44:10
Aren't outside those. 01:44:13
Outside this core function needs. 01:44:16
And then you start being able to mold your clay much better. 01:44:18
And that's that, that's what this process is supposed to. You're supposed to see changes as the design gets makes more sense and 01:44:52
the flow makes more sense. That's here. I'll take away that pretty well. 01:44:57
Danny, could you? 01:45:03
One of the questions and I don't. 01:45:05
I guess we ask it after because I really am enjoying going through these different designs. 01:45:08
Maybe let's ask the legal questions after. 01:45:14
Can we keep talking about design so. 01:45:16
And then, OK, so level 2 in terms of that mostly office space is shared exercise room. 01:45:23
This is, you know, with Mountain Mountain Association governments, bathrooms and so forth. 01:45:29
And future. 01:45:34
Office expansion area. 01:45:36
As well. So Level 3 on there with the. 01:45:39
Excuse me, this is. 01:45:44
Maximum level 2 is Vineyard Cities offices. 01:45:47
Level 3 would be Mountain Association Garland's offices. 01:45:53
So they had to share, share, share break room. So utilizing the partnerships. 01:45:57
To share to, you know, to share those. 01:46:02
Areas that would be overlapping. 01:46:05
And then? 01:46:09
Level 4, which is kind of like your event space. 01:46:10
You know, very, very, very popular with public stuff. And again, my lost city. 01:46:14
We we actually had a separate building that was on the lake. 01:46:18
You know, the nice thing about Utah like versus my last days like is there's no alligators in Utah like. 01:46:22
Not yet, but yeah, but. 01:46:29
About that, yeah, that and that and that we, you know, we had we had a restaurant we rented out, we rented out the restaurant 01:46:33
space in the very bottom then we had the total top floor is an event space and. 01:46:38
It was, it was very nice. We had some weddings there and so forth, so. 01:46:43
So that's a kind of. 01:46:48
Right there and then I kind of go into time. 01:46:50
Moving into the CMGC on phase one timeline just so you have an understanding about the. 01:46:56
How the how the process moves forth Sandy's GC? 01:47:01
RFP has been posted back in March. 01:47:05
And then City Council awards the CMGC contract. This will get realizes, kind of. 01:47:09
Approximate, approximate we go to say staff, we've gone through the proposals. 01:47:13
RCMGC. 01:47:19
On that and then well if you know after the contracts been awarded. 01:47:20
That CMGC. 01:47:25
Consultant Contractor. 01:47:27
Slash consultant? Really. 01:47:29
It provides as a budget framework to say, OK, here is a good understands like where the budgets, how kind of understand the 01:47:30
budgets and how the framework works. 01:47:35
But then moving on to. 01:47:39
Building plan development really getting focused. 01:47:41
Incorporated as part of the design team to start working on those building plans like. 01:47:43
You know, the architect says, oh, it would be so awesome to do this. 01:47:49
You know, skyscraper with. 01:47:52
Like toothpick type. 01:47:56
Foundations and the contractor can be like, now you're dreaming about. 01:47:58
That's going to be like the cost is really high. It's hard to build. 01:48:03
And such. 01:48:06
But moving on. 01:48:09
The cost estimating based on a timeline we're approximately approximately August of 2025. 01:48:10
We can get you know, com. 01:48:18
Come up with a. 01:48:20
Guaranteed maximum price. 01:48:21
For that facility construction documents, we're looking at September, November 2025. 01:48:24
And then this does not include all the public engagements in the middle. 01:48:30
I don't want to commit to that since I'm driving that with the girl train. 01:48:35
But we will have November, December 2025 or City Council. 01:48:40
Has approval of the project plans. 01:48:45
Then the last step of this phase is ending the. 01:48:47
Phase of the CNC which is the pre construction phase about December 2025. 01:48:53
Here again the RFP. 01:48:58
Excuse me, the RFP that we posted. 01:49:01
As in two phases. 01:49:04
Reconstruction phase, where the CMGC is collaborating closely with architects in our city. 01:49:05
Staff and appointed project team. 01:49:11
The support is the successful design and delivery of the project unless their their responsibilities and. 01:49:14
It talks about the process, the preconstruction services process. 01:49:21
Order 92 program development budget estimates value engineering for computer rent. 01:49:26
Implementation like logistics of how those things really workout. 01:49:30
Moving on, this is just a rough timeline for the Phase 2. 01:49:35
Because obviously there is no phase two-part of it. 01:49:39
Is further out than there, but we have to, you know. 01:49:45
We City Council to approve a phase two for the construction. 01:49:48
Going to project mobilization facility. 01:49:52
Exterior vertical. 01:49:56
Construction doing the interior side finishes project closeout and then. 01:49:58
So plus or minus. 01:50:04
I won't spend too much time, but the benefits to that this is This was taken from my last presentation. I did find this. 01:50:06
For my last presentation between different types of procurement methods. 01:50:13
And then you can see all those dollar signs. Those dollar signs doesn't mean. 01:50:16
You know, that's money. That's, you know, that's costing money. It's about cost development. 01:50:20
So, umm. 01:50:25
The traditional method designed to build. 01:50:27
Your cost development is nowhere on that timeline. 01:50:29
Your design build. You have cost development during your procurement stage, Your CMGC. 01:50:33
Your past development is in multiple stages throughout the design, throughout the design process. 01:50:38
And why is that important? We talked about that a little bit before about change orders. 01:50:43
Here's your classics. Classics 5 and change orders where. 01:50:48
And when you start the construction process. 01:50:52
Costco significantly off so. 01:50:54
On that. 01:50:58
A lot of what this does is this helps us align with the physical responsibility and planning. 01:51:00
How supports the short term and long term range for capital planning using PPE? 01:51:04
PPE. Excuse me? 01:51:10
Planning, planning, programming, budget, execution process. 01:51:12
AIDS and capital project budgeting. There's no construction funds are committed. 01:51:16
To this voice inflationary costs and delays by allowing us to foresee. 01:51:20
How the market is going? 01:51:26
Also grants or readiness because a lot of times when it comes to grants is do you have design? Do you have you know, what is your 01:51:28
cost realistic? 01:51:31
They don't want to award money when there is. 01:51:34
Uncertainty. 01:51:37
Of those things they want, they want to work money to entities are going to be sick to have successful projects. 01:51:38
And of course, it protects past planning investments. 01:51:47
Why with the PPE just put it out there is? 01:51:51
Is important with the PPE? Is the planning, programming, the budget? 01:51:55
And execution is a staple standard in the federal process. 01:52:00
Engineers manager. You know, engineers, management, planning, budgeting. 01:52:04
Annotation infrastructure projects. 01:52:09
Includes managing the projects throughout the life circle. Initial planning designed to construction maintenance. 01:52:11
So it's also, this also involves managing facilities and construction. I've said for military bases installation. The reason I say 01:52:18
that is. 01:52:21
Large organizations. 01:52:25
Have people dedicated to this process, especially the planning, programming, budgeting portion of that. 01:52:27
There, you know, that's very key, the foundation. 01:52:32
And I was one of those engineers. There we go. 01:52:35
I found that one so. 01:52:38
I was one of those in here again, I spend my that was my job was to make sure that. 01:52:40
Projects were being planned, programmed and budgeted properly. 01:52:45
So. 01:52:49
Any specific questions and cash is here. I don't get cash has been a key player to this. 01:52:53
On this cell. 01:52:58
Tash, could you talk about the changes in the design that were presented like just? 01:53:00
Because I know that we've been talking about. 01:53:07
It's, I mean, clearly it's changed from. 01:53:10
The Nelson Partners picture. 01:53:13
Page and then it's different on the next page. Yeah. So a key part of the spatial design is essentially like when Nelson came, 01:53:16
they met with. 01:53:20
Staff here, they met with Mag, they said what kind of space do you guys need? 01:53:25
And in doing so, they're able to come up with some rough square footages and they're able to kind of put it in a building there. 01:53:28
And that's what they left us with was the century, this design saying, you know, we want roughly 7000 square feet of. 01:53:33
That space mag needs 16,700 when you got whatever. 01:53:39
And that was a good starting point. So we essentially gave this to Method Studios Architects and said we need to refine this a 01:53:45
bit, we need to. 01:53:49
Potentially do this again. And so I worked with, with the architects and we sat down with each department director and said in the 01:53:52
next 5-10, fifteen, 20 years, what, what does your growth look like as we continue to expand as a city? 01:53:58
And we were able to chart that out to show kind of what our staff needs will be in the next few years. 01:54:05
And so that's where they're able to get this new footprint is based off of that document that we've created. And essentially what 01:54:11
you can do is. 01:54:14
For every person that you have, you have to have X amount of square feet. 01:54:19
Space for their office or their cubicle. 01:54:22
And so that's what kind of dictates the floor plate here. 01:54:25
But the design currently, like I said, top right green is the vineyard offices so far what we're looking at doing that in a phased 01:54:29
approach because we don't necessarily need the entire floor immediately. 01:54:34
You know, this building will service us for, you know, decades. And so the idea is, you know, we could start on the left half and 01:54:40
build that out and then as staff continues to grow, we could build that right half. We're still working through these kind of. 01:54:46
Ideas. Everything's up. Just an idea at this point. 01:54:53
But same thing, we have the idea of, oh, could we do the library here? And so we kind of floated around what that would look like 01:54:56
on the ground floor. We met with the library board yesterday to kind of discuss these options and it looks like they don't prefer 01:55:00
this method. 01:55:04
Or having it at this location. And so we've kind of told the the architect to steer away from that that we. 01:55:09
We'll find a way to activate some library space here, but not the library. 01:55:15
And so now we're more into the details of, especially on the ground floor, you'll see there's just kind of a lot of purple space, 01:55:20
like what do we do in that area specifically? 01:55:24
To make sure that we're programming it to our best ability. 01:55:29
And just to clarify. 01:55:34
So I know, I know this is conceptual, but. 01:55:37
In general, that footprint of the building is about the same, right? It's not. 01:55:40
From the Nelson Partners. 01:55:46
Yeah, it might be a little bit larger as a footprint of the building, but then open partners, I believe did have us going four 01:55:48
stories complete. 01:55:52
And if you'll notice on this latest plan actually. 01:55:56
Oh sorry, on this plan here, the level 4 we actually took off most of that top floor where it would just be event based in a large 01:55:58
patio. 01:56:03
Pet Your space is a lot cheaper to build out and so we thought we could create this really cool event space that could be kind of 01:56:08
an indoor outdoor function. 01:56:11
And so that's the idea that we're moving towards now have still have, you know, the capabilities for great event space, but also 01:56:15
be able to be outside and see the promenade, see the lake, see the mountains. 01:56:20
At an affordable price and that would eliminate the flex office space, right? Correct. That would do away with that, that leasing 01:56:25
space. 01:56:28
On the top floor. 01:56:32
OK. And then? 01:56:33
I think those answered my big questions. Can I just? 01:56:39
Laugh at something. 01:56:42
In this image. 01:56:44
Jake, this is for you. 01:56:45
I thought it said Jakes views. 01:56:48
But I was like, oh, cool. Like I thought Nasim put a like a little joke in there or something to Jake. But yeah, I know the site 01:56:52
is actually really, really nice because it is right on the venue connector, and you'll have the next block of the promenade on the 01:56:58
other side, so it'll be pretty unobstructed views of the lake. 01:57:04
And then we went with that L shape and that helps bring more views to the mountains as well as connects us closer to the parking 01:57:10
garage as well compared to the Nelson Partners design. 01:57:15
OK, um. 01:57:20
Thank you, that answers my question. This location was meant to be near the Aquatic Center. 01:57:23
Do we have anything that shows? 01:57:28
I don't know if you have anything, but where my mouse is, right here is where the Aquatic Center is. If you go out there and you 01:57:31
can access this road today, there's a road right here that will actually be being deconstructed and that will actually let us be 01:57:37
able to extend the promenade to the front doors of the building here, which will be a really neat experience. The park that 01:57:42
they're mentioning like that. 01:57:48
Hot air balloon will be right down here where my mouse is at. 01:57:54
So this will be connected directly onto the promenade. Thank you. 01:57:58
I have legal questions. 01:58:05
I Before we get into legal. 01:58:08
So with that, that you just showed we will not know a price, a definitive price until August ish. Yes and no. I defended the 01:58:10
price, correct. What what essentially we've done is, is with these numbers that we've given with architects and we're going to 01:58:15
have this many employees. 01:58:20
They're able to use previous buildings that are architects are the same ones who designed Orem and I believe the design Provo as 01:58:26
well and they're able to just look at those and say those came in at around. 01:58:30
X amount of dollars per square foot and they're able to provide us with a rough number that we can then use to use in our CMDC 01:58:35
contract. But yeah, in terms of. 01:58:39
Pricing for stuff we just don't know right now with. 01:58:43
With buying stuff, you know, tariffs and all that could change things and so that's why we're bringing on the CNGC contract 01:58:46
earlier on. 01:58:49
So we can involve them. 01:58:53
And get that pricing figured out so we do get an actual cost sooner than later. 01:58:54
Eric, you look like you have something to answer that in addition to using those comparables which are. 01:58:59
Very current Orem just opened their doors this last week. 01:59:05
They also add an escalation to that. 01:59:09
That includes. 01:59:11
Any inflation and estimated. 01:59:13
Increases in a potential cost. 01:59:15
So that the number is quite accurate. 01:59:17
And gives us that ballpark range in which we can. 01:59:21
Set a range right now. 01:59:23
To plug in all of our numbers and have a very close estimate on what our. 01:59:26
Anticipated annual cost would be. 01:59:32
What Mags anticipated the annual cost would be plug in the. 01:59:34
The dollars that we have available for. 01:59:38
Upfront investment and and then land on a very. 01:59:40
A pretty tight range for what our potential bond. 01:59:46
Amount would be. 01:59:49
So that's great. 01:59:51
At what point? Because I know that. 01:59:52
With some of these changes. 01:59:55
That we're looking at a lower cost. 01:59:57
Bond. So at what point are you going to feel comfortable sharing? Or can you share rough numbers? Sure. 02:00:00
Because I would really like to understand. What I would want from you is I want. 02:00:06
What we've already spent. 02:00:10
What we? 02:00:12
Like where we are to this point, I guess including everything. And then I want to know if it's adjusting the bond. Did you want to 02:00:14
ask your legal questions first? No, we can ask this first. 02:00:18
Great. So, yes, we do have those numbers. Our estimate right now is that our bond would be in the ballpark of 16 and a half 02:00:24
million to 18 and a half million. 02:00:28
As far as cash invested so far? 02:00:34
Today we have 1.5 million committed to the architecture and engineering. 02:00:37
Project. 02:00:43
We anticipate. 02:00:45
Mag to put their. 02:00:47
Their full amount 8 million. 02:00:50
We anticipate as a city putting in the three million that we had set aside for. 02:00:53
The the building. 02:00:59
And that would go in part towards this engineering contract that we have today. 02:01:00
It would go and park towards the. 02:01:07
The CNBC contract. 02:01:09
And then the remainder would go in as as cash for the construction project up front, so. 02:01:11
Our investment would be 3 million. 02:01:17
Mags would be closer to 9 million because they have. 02:01:19
Approximately half a million for the engineering. 02:01:23
Half a million. 02:01:27
For the CMGC. 02:01:28
And then the remaining 8 million towards the. 02:01:31
Initial. 02:01:35
At dollars there. 02:01:37
So what does that make the total cost of the whole project? 02:01:39
For including that total cost of the project were ballparking somewhere in the 29 to 31. 02:01:41
Million. 02:01:49
And then you're saying? 02:01:50
The range it's at right now is 28 to 3128 to 31. 02:01:54
OK. And then? 02:01:59
So to clarify, could you? 02:02:00
Sorry, let me see. So 28 to 31 is what you just said. 02:02:04
So then. 02:02:07
The bond because we've already put so we've already spent 1.5. 02:02:08
And then we'd be putting 3 down South. You're saying that out of our current budget, we're putting 4 point. These are all rough 02:02:13
numbers. 02:02:17
4.5 million total city investment 3. 02:02:20
Oh, that would include the 1.5. 02:02:24
Right. And from what from what I understand from you is that? 02:02:26
The current actual estimates are the lower area, but you're putting in a range to account for any changes. 02:02:31
So the 28 is where it's at right now. 02:02:39
The range is in case those numbers change as you continue to design and go through this process that we're going through. 02:02:41
So right now the actual estimates are. The close estimates are closer to the lower range. 02:02:48
But they're creating that buffer. 02:02:54
And and and including an escalation in there so that we can. 02:02:56
Account for some of those variations in costs. 02:03:00
So so so again to reiterate. 02:03:03
The city would put 3. 02:03:06
Mag would put 9. 02:03:08
Of those dollars? 02:03:10
We anticipate. 02:03:13
Approximately 3,000,000 total. 02:03:15
In soft cost so. 02:03:18
The the city currently where they're just dividing it for simplicity with 2/3. 02:03:20
City 1/3 mag. The actual ratio is closer to. 02:03:27
Who knows them off hand? 54 inch. 02:03:31
46. 02:03:36
Something like that of the ratio between mag and city space. 02:03:37
So 54% study space, they're in the document in the CMC. I'm probably misquoting it by at least 1%. I think it's good to have the 02:03:43
discussion. No, I know, I just didn't want you to write down the wrong numbers. 02:03:49
Thank you. 02:03:57
So. 02:03:59
When are you going to have this mapped out for us and presented like? 02:04:02
Or is this already in here? There's a public hearing on May 14th, but we're not. I would like to have. 02:04:07
Before then, so that the public could see what it actually is, we have we have our range published on our on our website and I can 02:04:13
just leave these with you. 02:04:17
At the end but they're but they're up on online. 02:04:22
OK, umm. 02:04:25
So what you're saying as it sounds right now with estimates? 02:04:27
The total cost of the project could be up to 31 million including Max portion. So that doesn't include anything. The total cost is 02:04:31
the total cost. 02:04:36
That's not not well, no, I'm I'm saying like. 02:04:41
Not just vineyards, parts. 02:04:44
31 million is everything total cost of building, yes, potentially. And what they're saying is they're seeing the cost at 16.5 with 02:04:46
28 million, but they're putting in a range to 18.5 that could go to 31, correct for the bond, correct for the and for that bond if 02:04:53
we only bonded for 16.5 to 18.5. 02:05:01
And I'm sorry, it's just a little bit confusing. I'm throwing a lot of numbers around. 02:05:10
The umm. 02:05:14
How much of mag? 02:05:18
Is that? 02:05:20
How much in that remaining bond is not going to pay? They're 1/3 of the costs. 02:05:22
Well, if they've already put 9 million down, I'm wondering. 02:05:27
So for the 16.5 it's like 11 something. 02:05:31
For the city. 02:05:35
The total amount for them at the at the. 02:05:37
$28 million option is approximately $11 million. 02:05:40
Total. 02:05:45
On the $31 million option, it's a little bit higher than that. 02:05:47
OK. Well, I was just wondering, I know that it's I know that you said it's on the website and I've got a piece of paper here. I 02:05:55
was just kind of hoping that we could actually. 02:05:59
Show the public some of these numbers to help them understand. 02:06:03
Kind of as like a step by step. 02:06:07
What's happening with the project? 02:06:10
Just to be more commutative, but umm. 02:06:12
And agreed. And This is why we put it so we have a page dedicated to the Vineyard Center on the Vineyard utah.gov site. 02:06:16
And both charts that kind of. 02:06:26
Establish that range. 02:06:29
Are published on that on our page right now. 02:06:30
So it's available for anyone and everyone. 02:06:34
So what you could add that might be helpful? Sorry, Jake, I'll turn it over to you in just a second. Maybe this is what you're 02:06:36
asking. 02:06:40
In February, we talked about how the process would work and we'd go through the architectural design and then the CMGC would 02:06:45
happen. And what you're asking is how are these numbers kind of being included as Cash was saying when he was talking about the 02:06:51
spatial design and how the process works? 02:06:56
Maybe we could put in the timeline of how those designs come in like again, charged kind of thing. 02:07:03
And then? 02:07:10
These you could say. I mean you already have them listed as the current actual and then the range. 02:07:11
Umm, as long as they're listed, and then you could see that in the Gantt chart. 02:07:18
We'll work on putting something like that together. 02:07:23
Jake so if the total cost to build. 02:07:26
Goes down to the 16 to 18 number. 02:07:31
I look at the total cost to citizens, which was the bond, which was 46 million. 02:07:35
If you're using the same amortization, this should be in the 37 to 38. 02:07:42
Total cost to citizens. 02:07:48
I mean your numbers are not going to be right. 02:07:50
And minor, but if you lower the same percentage, it would be in the 36 to 38 million. Are you talking about including interests? 02:07:53
Yeah, OK. Like total cost to citizen. 02:07:58
Are you talking about the bond parameters? 02:08:05
Yeah, like the total. 02:08:08
Like like the threshold, but there's a total cost to build and then there's the total cost to. 02:08:10
That citizens will pay over the amateurs. So the first number, are you talking about the 47? Are you talking about interest rates 02:08:15
on top of the threshold? 02:08:19
On top of the bond parameters. 02:08:25
Yeah. 02:08:27
Like how much interest? 02:08:29
He's talking about like a truth in lending, like a yeah, like on the here's, here's a maximum principal amount of the bond and 02:08:32
then the interest on top of that. 02:08:36
And he's calculating that out to a theoretical maximum of $46 million. 02:08:41
No, not 46. It lowers to 37. Tallied it up. 02:08:46
Oh, OK. Go ahead, Eric, maybe you can clarify what would they give us that new estimate, We have it. When you say new estimate, 02:08:49
what does that mean? 02:08:53
For the same last amount of total cost to build, I'm sorry, before you know what he's saying. OK, go ahead. 02:08:57
So, uh. 02:09:05
OK, so. 02:09:11
Using. 02:09:12
The high end of our current range that we. 02:09:13
Put on our website. 02:09:16
The total cost to taxpayers. 02:09:18
24658 OK, but that's not the answer to my question. 02:09:23
What is the 47 million? OK. So my question for you, were you so Brett, you were just explaining it a little bit. Yeah, so, so it's 02:09:29
on the bond parameters. We said we had a maximum of 6%. 02:09:36
And maximum of $35 million. So there's a theoretical and 25, I think we said 25 years. 02:09:45
Right. So there's a theoretical maximum of that $35 million plus all the interest over those years? 02:09:51
And that is the total amount that OK, so you're saying? 02:09:57
You're not even calculating the building costs that was discussed. You're talking about the parameters and then you're adding 02:10:04
interest on it potentially and then coming up with the 47 and then we're going back to the the high end of the range and you're 02:10:11
saying total cost would be total cost would be 24,000,000 and change. 02:10:18
For the city. 02:10:25
That obviously we don't, we don't include in that amount what MAG is paying because that's irrelevant to what taxpayers in our 02:10:26
city would be paying. 02:10:30
It seems like there's some confusion here. 02:10:35
About what? 02:10:38
The building is. 02:10:40
What a bond parameter is and the threshold, and what our current actual estimates are. 02:10:42
Maybe we can say there's current actual estimates which is the 16.5. 02:10:49
And there's a range which is the 18.5. 02:10:53
And there is the bond parameter which is 35. 02:10:57
And what's really important to clarify is that. 02:11:01
We have to consider that the bond parameters was for the full. 02:11:06
Potential need for a bond. 02:11:10
Not separating out mags portion because mag is not a bonding entity. 02:11:14
And so the city would bond for whatever is needed to bond for. 02:11:19
And obviously, our taxpayers would not pay for the portion that belongs to MAG. OK. So if you wanted to understand how the city 02:11:22
design works, Marty, then you would probably and how they're doing costs and how the CMGC works. 02:11:29
Then the Gantt chart would need to start from that. 02:11:37
From identifying all of those things, yeah, we could, we could do kind of a separate. 02:11:40
We can do a city, the city portion and the mag portion kind of is 2 separate lines. Obviously from a timing perspective they're 02:11:45
going to be identical. 02:11:49
But from a cost division. 02:11:53
It'll help split that up so that it's clear what what the city. 02:11:56
Is paying for long in the long term and what MAG is paying for in the long run OK? 02:12:00
OK. That makes sense. Now I understand what you're talking about and I think you got your question answered right, Marty, one of 02:12:06
them, OK. 02:12:10
Did you have another question? 02:12:15
I, I have, I have my legal questions. OK. I'm going to spread it around. Brett and Sarah, did you have any questions or can I go 02:12:20
back to Marty? 02:12:24
OK, go back. Go ahead. I'm ready. 02:12:29
Though, so I was splitting it up between the two of you. Were you just responding to Marty? Did I skip you? No, I I was just 02:12:31
clarifying. 02:12:36
In the other cities around us, they're paying cash and so the Local Government Bonding Act. 02:12:41
Title 11. Chapter 14 of Utah Code. 02:12:48
And notes that we have to disclose the total cost to citizens. 02:12:52
On the bond. 02:12:56
So like, it's like when you go buy a car, they're like, hey, here's the sticker, here's this, here's that. You get free tires, you 02:12:58
get all this. 02:13:01
At the end of the day, that we have to give a total cost to citizens. 02:13:05
And disclose that and that notification was the one posted up here. So that's why I'm like. 02:13:09
It's important to know. 02:13:16
The cost to build? 02:13:18
But because our city is going to finance, we have to then disclose, but we're also financing. 02:13:20
And so yeah. Oh, no, I, I understand that. 02:13:26
What you're what I think needs to be clarified from what I understand in this meeting. 02:13:29
Is that and we I think we can help get there with Marty's question is that. 02:13:35
There is a bond parameter and then there's what you finance. 02:13:42
And what you finance? 02:13:46
Is the cost of the building because that's what you end up bonding for, and what you end up bonding for has to be divided between 02:13:48
your partners and what you pay cash upfront. 02:13:53
And so you take the cast that you're going to pay up front the total cost. 02:13:58
And then you go to the actual bond and you talk about what you're financing. 02:14:02
And that is the 16.5 or the 18.5? 02:14:07
To the range that we're talking about. And so you give the total cost of the finance. Now what you're doing is you're taking it 02:14:11
all the way to a possible maximum credit that you could bond for if it costs that, but that's not what it's going to cost. So you 02:14:17
have to give the actual cost and range. 02:14:22
Of how you're going to finance it. 02:14:28
Well, I think it's important to note that we want all the numbers. It's not that we're just focusing on one number or the other 02:14:30
and typically. 02:14:34
Went and I didn't agree with your statement. Not all cities pay cash for their city halls, but you said that you said all the 02:14:38
cities around us don't want. So that's very different than all I would. We have talked about all the different bonds that cities 02:14:46
do and I do feel that bonding is a smart idea. Now, whether or not the community feels that way, we're figuring that out. 02:14:55
But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to discuss. 02:15:03
What we could do to get this the most practical project possible to the lower cost to make sure that this is fiscally responsible. 02:15:07
And so I want to talk about. Yeah, let's talk about what the. 02:15:13
The bonding act request make sure we know what the total cost is, but when I'm negotiating. 02:15:19
To plan for a bond, that's what I'm focusing on. It's not like I'm trying to ignore those numbers. Go ahead, Eric. Just just one 02:15:25
quick point. 02:15:29
LRB, I'm sorry, I'm gonna lose this thought and I'll give it back to you. 02:15:35
Then there's. 02:15:40
You made a point that I don't want us to lose in that conversation. 02:15:42
All the numbers are important. 02:15:47
And all of the numbers are important. 02:15:49
But they represent very different things, yes, and we cannot lose sight of it. And that's what I was clarifying. 02:15:52
There is a bond threshold. This would be like you have a credit card. 02:15:58
And you have $4000. That's the Max. 02:16:03
Then it would be what are you going to pay on? 02:16:07
How much are you actually going to go for? It's not even like a credit card because it being you could get 4000. 02:16:11
But I'm only going to go and I'm only going to get 300. It's like a pre, you know? 02:16:17
Pre approval for a home yes. So if I get pre approved for $1,000,000 house but I actually just want to go buy a $250,000 house. 02:16:22
It doesn't matter that there was an extra 750 available, that you were allowed to go is what you financed. 02:16:30
OK, Now go ahead and clarify. Sorry, I don't want to lose that because those have been confused about that here, especially if we 02:16:37
want to clarify it on the website is something we cannot be confused about. So I just wanted to point out that. 02:16:43
Gathered for us. 02:16:50
For comparable stance. 02:16:52
From a comparable standpoint. 02:16:54
The cities around. 02:16:56
The state that have done sales tax revenue bonds. 02:16:58
And there are 29 that were listed on that. There were some that were. 02:17:02
That were state infrastructure type. 02:17:06
Sales tax bonds and so excluding those. 02:17:09
29 different city. 02:17:12
Sales tax bonds have been issued in the last few years. 02:17:14
Ranging from small dollar amounts like a couple million. 02:17:17
All the way up to a $64 million bond. 02:17:21
And an $87,000,000 bond. 02:17:25
By Spanish Fork and Iron County and so. 02:17:28
It is a very standard route for. 02:17:31
And they went through a similar process of displaying it with design and displaying it with the CMGC. And we're saying those well, 02:17:35
sales tax revenue bonds, all sales tax revenue bonds. 02:17:41
I. 02:17:47
Sorry, I know that a lot of these numbers have been shared and I think they're very helpful. I'm I'm ready to go into the legal 02:17:49
questions if everyone else is. 02:17:53
Yeah, let's please go into that because. 02:17:59
Yeah, go ahead. 02:18:01
So we know that. 02:18:03
I have so many questions. 02:18:07
Jamie, do you, do you have some of my questions already right, like. 02:18:09
I'll pick one. 02:18:15
So we know that. 02:18:17
OK, let's go with this one. 02:18:20
We did a revolution for bond parameters for up to $35 million. 02:18:21
Now it's sounding like we might only bond for up to $18.5 million. 02:18:29
Did I get that right? 02:18:35
So. 02:18:37
The question. 02:18:38
And there's so many other questions with this question, but with the referendum possibly knocking out our door, I know that 02:18:40
packets are going out today. 02:18:45
Umm, I need to understand. 02:18:53
I feel like there's a lot of consequences to. 02:18:56
Amending bond parameter and there's a lot of consequences to not amending a bond parameter. And then there's. 02:18:58
How is the question if the referendum signatures go through, then what is that question on the ballot look like? Is it going to 02:19:05
say are you OK with the city bonding up to 35,000,000 when we're not bonding up to 35 million and we're bonding up to 18.5 and 02:19:10
then it's getting all at once? 02:19:16
And then? 02:19:21
If we just put the question on the ballot ourselves, what kind of rights do we have to do that? So rather than have the community 02:19:23
have to gather all the signatures, if we know it's something that the community has an appetite to vote for, then how, what would 02:19:28
the procedure be for us to put on that? And. 02:19:33
What would that cost? What would that look like? Is it even an option for us? 02:19:39
And. 02:19:43
That's it. 02:19:51
I'll try to start broad and narrow and then if you have follow up questions I'm happy to answer them. 02:19:54
Umm, if we go kind of the high level. 02:20:01
The the Legislature sets out the procedures by which cities bond. 02:20:04
And so the second you step into that process, you identify. 02:20:10
The type of bond and then that statute. 02:20:16
Lays out. 02:20:19
You know, from that point forward, what do you do? 02:20:20
For the types of bonds the city is contemplating what your sales tax and franchise taxes are, what you're pledging. 02:20:23
As collateral for the bond. 02:20:31
The you're required to do a parameters resolution. 02:20:33
Eric gave a great analogy for that, which is it's like going to the bank and getting pre approved for a mortgage. 02:20:37
And it doesn't mean that. 02:20:44
Take a mortgage on those terms, but it gives you the maximum. 02:20:46
That you've authorized both the maximum dollar amount. 02:20:50
And the maximum. 02:20:54
Interest rate. 02:20:56
On the bonds, I know they use different terms of interest rate, but it's essentially that. 02:20:58
So then when you look at the resolution. 02:21:04
The, the OR, I'm sorry, the referenda. 02:21:08
Petition. 02:21:11
Citizens. 02:21:13
Of the city. 02:21:14
Have contemporaneous. 02:21:16
Legislative authority with the City Council. 02:21:18
They don't have the same process as this, the City Council. 02:21:21
And so that's where it gets a little bit tricky, because the legislation for bonds assumes that. 02:21:25
City council's have this authority. They. 02:21:32
Use this authority. 02:21:34
I don't want to say routinely, but at least regularly. 02:21:36
For public infrastructure projects and and where that process is available to you. 02:21:40
There is not a process available to the council to say. 02:21:46
We just want to put the bond decision. 02:21:49
Out to a vote. 02:21:53
Unless the council decides to do general obligation bonds. 02:21:54
Which are really different. 02:21:59
Because general obligation would pledge. 02:22:01
All of the resources the city would have, and if the city were to default on a general obligation bond, then the bondholders could 02:22:05
come in. 02:22:10
And forced the city to do things. 02:22:15
And I don't think that's a good. 02:22:17
That's not what our financial advisors are telling us is a smart decision for a project like this. 02:22:20
You're better off pledging certain revenue sources and not the general obligations of the city. 02:22:26
Because then you'd be getting into property tax and things like that and we don't want to touch property tax. 02:22:32
So. 02:22:38
Yes, please. So with a Geo bond, if if we had decided, if we decided to do a Geo bond. 02:22:39
Would that require? 02:22:46
Would that require a property tax increase or could we go with our already established budget and just work off of what our income 02:22:49
is? 02:22:54
Like Geo bonds don't require property tax increase unless you can't. There's two sides to that question. Can I interrupt for a 02:22:59
second? I just want to call point order Councillor Holden way. 02:23:05
I, I'm finding this really frustrating that you're texting or doing whatever you're doing. I'm actually getting his feedback. So 02:23:11
he asked because this is a really critical conversation for you to hear. Oh, I know I've got to research it, but. 02:23:17
Now is the time to listen to the conversation, I don't think. 02:23:24
A person of a different party gets to say what I get to think about when I get to think about it. 02:23:29
He said something that I did. However, it is in our code of conduct that you are. I wasn't disrupting. I am paying attention, 02:23:33
that's why I'm asking the question. 02:23:38
I'm asking specifically right now what the RDA is. 02:23:42
About the bond, because it's that we put the point, the point of our code of conduct is that you are paying attention to this 02:23:46
meeting, right? 02:23:50
That's exactly what I see you texting. 02:23:54
That is not paying attention. That is totally OK Come up here and read every single thing that I'm texting about right now. 02:23:56
Like literally every single thing of what we're doing that that is not the point. Well, I guess hold on. So I'm going to point of 02:24:04
order. 02:24:08
I'm going to point a corner. 02:24:13
There's two things. 02:24:15
I think if you were researching something that's different, if you're texting, you guys are writing your notes down. Like look at 02:24:16
how are you point of order point, point of order. I, I want to, I want to just clarify something. 02:24:23
To gather feedback on something that we're discussing through text messages. 02:24:32
Is something that could be clarified that we're not supposed to be doing on the thing that we're working on? 02:24:36
Hold on, please. Hold on, please. Hold on, please. I think that, listen, I need to be able to conduct the meeting. I recognize 02:24:44
that you want to make a statement. I have to finish this so that we understand the two things that need to be clarified so that 02:24:51
you can move and do the things that you feel are appropriate and Brett can have his comment answered. 02:24:58
There are two things that happen here. 02:25:06
One that is addressing is that texting during a meeting to gather feedback from things that we're voting on is not supposed to be 02:25:08
occurring. Gathering feedback or gathering information is allowed. Is that correct? 02:25:15
Yeah, So a recommendation. I I think Councilmember Clausen's noted the point of order. It can be included in the record of the 02:25:22
meeting and it's something, if there's a concern about it, we could verify it after the fact. 02:25:28
OK. 02:25:35
I do think the topic of Councilmember Sequent is questions and any other council member that has questions about this are 02:25:36
important. 02:25:40
For us to get through. So I, Councilmember Clausen, if you're OK with it all. 02:25:45
Yeah, I mean, no disrespect is just. 02:25:50
You said something and I was researching that. 02:25:52
I mean. 02:25:55
I'll just proceed and answer that. Yeah, thank you. 02:25:56
So there. 02:26:00
When you. 02:26:02
I'm going to continue with the analogy of a home mortgage because I think it. 02:26:05
It makes sense here. 02:26:09
When you. 02:26:11
Acquire a mortgage. When you borrow to purchase a home, the bank requires collateral. 02:26:13
The collateral it takes is a lean on your home. 02:26:18
And if you default on the loan, then they can call the lien and they can evict you from your home and then sell the home to pay 02:26:21
off whatever's remaining on. 02:26:26
That amount? 02:26:31
Bonds are the same. 02:26:33
You the city pledges a collateral in order to receive that. 02:26:34
The money up front and then it pays for it overtime. 02:26:39
What you use to pay for it and what collateral was pledged can be two different things. 02:26:42
So on a franchise and sales tax. 02:26:48
Bond like the one Vineyard is considering. 02:26:51
The revenue source the city intends to use and the one that has been used to. 02:26:55
Use the word pre qualify. 02:27:01
For the bond issuance? 02:27:04
Are those revenue sources? And then if the city were to default on that bond? 02:27:07
The only thing the bondholders could come back. 02:27:12
And require the city to give them. 02:27:15
Are the sales tax revenues and the franchise tax revenues. So in the future, in the future general obligation bonds are different 02:27:19
because the cities pledging all of its resources. 02:27:25
As an obligation against the bond, in other words, the collateral that the bondholders demanding. 02:27:32
Would be any revenue source the city has. 02:27:39
And if the city revenue sources are insufficient, then they can force the city to increase its revenue sources. 02:27:43
Cities don't sell products they. 02:27:50
Have fees, they have taxes. And So what it could mean is. 02:27:53
That the bondholder comes in and says you have to raise your taxes. 02:27:57
In order to pay for this, I think I actually I want to rephrase one of my questions because. 02:28:02
It's not necessarily. I appreciate you explaining the Geo bonds and the sell tax revenue and franchise bonds, but. 02:28:07
What what I'm trying to ask is. 02:28:14
Even so, even if we just wanted to form a question. 02:28:17
Not, not necessarily. 02:28:22
Doesn't have to do with the bond specific it's saying do you support? 02:28:25
In theory, the city going to bond. 02:28:31
Or do you support building Vineyard Center? 02:28:34
For this amount of a bomb. 02:28:37
Like it's not about the bond, it's about. 02:28:39
The facility is about the commitment to cost. 02:28:43
Like, do you get what I'm trying to do? You want to just put a general question on the ballot? 02:28:46
An opinion question, Yeah. 02:28:51
You could probably get there. I don't know how you do it and. 02:28:55
Keep to a project timeline. 02:28:59
Well, I mean. 02:29:02
I haven't done a lot of research on procedurally how that would occur, So what I just heard. 02:29:05
In this discussion is the sales tax revenue bond has an administrative side to it where we're not allowed to put it on the ballot? 02:29:11
But once we vote. 02:29:19
Then the act. 02:29:21
Of doing a resolution is what we've deemed or what is deemable as legislative. 02:29:23
And that can be referred. 02:29:31
A Geo bond. 02:29:32
Raises property taxes. 02:29:34
And so that's legislative and you would put it on the ballot because you. 02:29:36
Because it raises property taxes and it's a burden on the people. It might be immediately. 02:29:41
It is. 02:29:46
Legislative, so you have administrative. 02:29:48
Legislative and then the second question or the third question? 02:29:51
That you asked is. 02:29:55
If a Geo bond is. 02:29:58
Not raising anything, you're just accessing current taxes. 02:30:01
You, I missed that part during the interaction. I think where Marty's going with this is she's asking. No, I know, I know. But 02:30:05
this one I want to clarify. 02:30:11
The Geo Bond question because I missed it. 02:30:18
If you have a Geo bond that you're going after that doesn't cause property taxes. Did you say that one was administrative or 02:30:21
legislative? Well, there's there's not the same determination on a Geo bond because the state statute requires it to go vote. OK. 02:30:28
So it is automatically correct. So I don't know. 02:30:34
A referendum on a Geo bond would be moot. 02:30:42
Because it goes to the ballot regardless, right? Where one is administrative to start and can be referred which OK. 02:30:46
And your point is, well, could we have an opinion question and you're going to look into it? Yeah, and I'll look into it. I think 02:30:54
the answer is perhaps yes, that there is a way to ask a general question of the electorate. 02:31:00
I think I don't know what that would mean for. 02:31:07
Everything else happening with the project, well then you'd have to analyze my response to you Marty is we would probably as we 02:31:09
research that. 02:31:13
Would want to look at the cost of delaying. 02:31:17
With space-time and everything that we've already, well, my, my question, well, this kind of leads to the referendum question, one 02:31:22
of the questions I didn't ask. 02:31:28
Is I know that it has been a question and a source of concern and legalities with what we are allowed to do. 02:31:36
Once, because we have the referendum application, you have acknowledged that legally that they have a right to do a referendum. 02:31:43
Did I say that right? 02:31:47
And then? 02:31:51
And so now they have their packets. 02:31:53
And they're going to start going around gathering signatures. 02:31:56
So are we? So at what point are we breaking the law by even touching this project? 02:31:59
Yeah, great question and. 02:32:06
A little bit of a tricky 1. 02:32:08
Legally. 02:32:11
Because there are several different things happening at once, so. 02:32:12
There's a memo that I circulated to the council and to staff. I have no problem with that memo being disclosed publicly that it. 02:32:17
Is a restatement of what's in. 02:32:27
The law, but framed through the lens of. 02:32:29
The referendum application that's been made on this. 02:32:33
The general rule is that. 02:32:37
Public resources, meaning city. Revenue sources City Money city. 02:32:40
Funded resources can't be used. 02:32:45
To advocate on something that is the subject of a referendum. 02:32:48
And now that an application has been made and that determination has been made about it being eligible to be placed on the ballot, 02:32:54
we are now in that scenario. 02:32:59
So no city resources can be used to try to persuade people one way or the other. Vote yes or no. 02:33:04
On this. 02:33:11
There are two other and that relates to the item being referred is the bond parameters resolution. 02:33:13
There are some tricky things with state law because it requires a sequence that when you have a referendum, that aligns in a 02:33:22
really weird way. 02:33:26
Because of parameters resolution sets a month after that a public hearing. 02:33:31
And there can be confusion by people saying, well, if the city announces that it's holding a public hearing or publishes 02:33:37
information, that allows people to be informed. 02:33:41
Before that public hearing, isn't that advocacy? 02:33:47
And I think that's where the city needs to be careful about how those things are phrased. 02:33:50
But it can provide factual information that will inform people going into that hearing. 02:33:55
And they can continue to provide factual information about. 02:34:01
Project The project budget. The project planning. 02:34:05
And you have kind of two parallel actions that are not referable decisions. 02:34:09
That our ongoing processes where it's appropriate for the city to hold meetings, engage with the public, answer questions, provide 02:34:14
information. 02:34:18
And it's the planning for the project. 02:34:22
And that's like what you heard from the same in cash today of. 02:34:25
How the sites configure, what the cost estimates are, What the work is with the public? 02:34:30
On the planning process with the architects, With the engineers. 02:34:35
And then there's a similar process on planning out the funding for the project. And I think that can still be communicated and 02:34:40
worked on. 02:34:44
I'm during this interim period. 02:34:48
There's nothing that would prohibit that. 02:34:51
And then? 02:34:53
Elected officials have. 02:34:55
A lot more latitude in what they can and can't do to advocate. 02:34:58
On behalf of the ballot referendum, so long as you don't use public resources to do it. 02:35:03
So you all. 02:35:09
Your own websites, your own social media handles, your own e-mail accounts. 02:35:11
Can advocate for behalf of the referenda however you wish. 02:35:17
You can't use your city e-mail address, city social media. 02:35:21
City Computers. 02:35:26
To do that kind of thing. So just be mindful of what resource you're using. 02:35:28
Can we use it to ask you staff or county of the process are we supposed to be? 02:35:33
Know any kind of process question you could use that resource to ask of us and then? 02:35:40
City staff also are able to respond to direct questions about. 02:35:45
The referendum or the referenda process. So if you know if a member of the public were to call and say. 02:35:50
You know I don't understand this thing or can you point me to a resource on this or help me understand this? 02:35:56
They can answer factual questions they're not prohibited from doing. 02:36:03
Customer service type. 02:36:07
Activities. 02:36:09
What they can't say to somebody is I think you should vote. 02:36:11
You know, this way. 02:36:14
For or against on the issue? 02:36:16
As a City Council member. 02:36:21
If there's already resources that have been provided. 02:36:24
I can use them for my own like if they've sure. 02:36:28
If they already have. 02:36:32
Images and documents and I can use that but I can't ask. 02:36:34
It's kind of confusing. 02:36:39
Because I guess, I guess the second part of this question is. 02:36:41
Does it halt the project because there's a referendum like we have hired? 02:36:45
We've hired the CMGC. 02:36:52
No, we haven't hired the same. 02:36:54
So do we have we did clear the design? 02:36:57
But the designs we do have the designing process, there's a public hearing. So we don't call and tell them stop designing it 02:37:01
because there's a reference. I can, I can answer that. I understand what you're asking. Let me answer the first question and then 02:37:07
I'll get to the what legally I would call us stay. 02:37:12
A stay, STAY. 02:37:19
Your follow up question was can you use city or staff prepared resources to inform your advocacy? Yes, of course. 02:37:23
What you can't do is ask staff to create. 02:37:31
Advocacy resources for you to use. 02:37:35
So if for example, you wanted to create a social media post that reviewed the plans, the documents, the status of the project. 02:37:38
And then you wanted to argue to people that look for all these reasons. 02:37:47
You should vote a certain way on the project. 02:37:51
Well, a lot of those figures and the data that you're pulling from is created by staff. 02:37:54
But Staffs not creating them for advocacy, they're creating them for the project. 02:37:59
To understand what the dimensions are of the project. 02:38:05
How it will be funded and what the estimates are and it's and they've created and maintained, I think a useful website that does 02:38:08
that. 02:38:12
It's not an advocacy website, it's just a website that. 02:38:16
Has been as close to real time as we can. 02:38:21
Information. Factually correct information about the project. 02:38:25
You're also required as part of the referenda statute. 02:38:31
You be in the city. 02:38:34
Is required to publish. 02:38:36
Document that was published over the weekend. 02:38:38
According to the statutory deadline, that's a fiscal and legal impact statement. 02:38:42
And that has to be factually neutral, but it also has to contemplate all of the potential. 02:38:47
Legal and fiscal impacts. 02:38:54
Christie and I are the 2. 02:38:57
Persons identified in the statute as responsible for that, it's your budget officer and. 02:38:59
Your city attorney. 02:39:05
And we created the document in consultation with the Financial Advisors and Bond Council. 02:39:07
Because they have a little different skill set than we do. 02:39:13
Informed what went into that document. 02:39:16
That's a document you can rely on for. 02:39:19
Factually neutral information. That's not an advocacy document, but it'll layout. 02:39:22
The potential legal and fiscal consequences. 02:39:27
And then? 02:39:30
Your next question. 02:39:32
Was about when and at what point work on the project. 02:39:36
Stop. And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because referenda are about. 02:39:40
Referring uh. 02:39:45
Decisions that the City Council made to voters. 02:39:47
And the only types of decisions that are eligible to be referred are legislative decisions. 02:39:51
There are Supreme Court cases saying that bonding decisions. 02:39:57
Tend to be legislative. 02:40:02
There are not Supreme Court cases that are recent on the topic. They're back in 1936 and 1939. 02:40:04
There's the 2012 case that discusses them and basically says. 02:40:11
If they came up again, we think the outcome would be the same. 02:40:15
Neither of the bonds in those two cases are. 02:40:19
The same type of bonds that the city are putting forward. 02:40:22
But the Council's direction on this was. 02:40:26
To avoid a position on it that would invite litigation and so. 02:40:28
My determination was this is. 02:40:33
A referral. 02:40:36
Legislative decision most likely, and that the Council wasn't going to resist. 02:40:37
Having it referred and allowing the voters to. 02:40:42
If enough signatures are gathered. 02:40:45
To allow. 02:40:48
People to vote on it. 02:40:49
Umm the referendum statute has a specific time at which. 02:40:50
Work on the bond would be stayed. 02:40:55
And state is the legal term of art. That just means you stop doing things on it until you have the vote. 02:40:59
And that would be at the point in time when. 02:41:06
Signatures are gathered. Signatures meet the statutory threshold. 02:41:09
Which is 11.5% of registered voters in the city at large. 02:41:14
And 11.5% of the voters in each of the voter districts. 02:41:18
Within the city. 02:41:23
And once signatures are submitted that hit that level. 02:41:24
Then the city would not be able to pro ceed. 02:41:28
With the parameters resolution. 02:41:32
I don't think there's much risk of. 02:41:35
A decision to move forward with a bond issue occurring before. 02:41:38
That deadline, just looking at the sequence of the hearing and then when. 02:41:42
You would take up that decision. 02:41:47
But that would not stay. 02:41:49
Work on architecture and engineering. 02:41:52
Work on cost estimates. 02:41:55
Work. Work on issuing a contract. 02:41:57
You'd of course have to reconfigure your whole financing on the project. 02:42:00
But theoretically, a project could move forward even if. 02:42:04
Upon parameters, resolution is rejected. 02:42:08
I say that theoretically, carefully, right? Because that's not what the Council's directed or what you're doing, but. 02:42:11
That's kind of the legal hypothetical thing. So as it stands. 02:42:18
And you're saying from a legal standpoint? 02:42:22
Until the signatures get turned. 02:42:26
Financial conversations with the with LRB about bond. 02:42:29
Time can be spent on all those things. 02:42:34
And then you're saying once the signatures if the signatures if they collect enough signatures and turn it in. 02:42:36
Then that's when bond conversations with LRV would need to stop until the boat went through. 02:42:41
Well, the city could still ask questions of its financial advisors with or without a box. The the parameters resolution and the 02:42:48
effect of the parameters resolution would stay. 02:42:55
As of that day. 02:43:02
But then As for your SO, you're saying but construction and design work. 02:43:03
And we obviously couldn't construct things if we knew that the bond was up in question, right? 02:43:08
Right, you'd have to completely redo your project. 02:43:15
Financing right I. 02:43:18
I'm just I'm. I'm simply offering that. 02:43:20
The only thing being referred as the bond parameters resolution, not any other aspect of a project. 02:43:23
And that's not me. I'm not making a. 02:43:29
Judgment, they're saying, you know that's. 02:43:32
Good or correct or right, it just that is the action that's been referred. 02:43:35
And there are other actions the Council will take I don't or could take. 02:43:41
Related to the project. 02:43:46
I don't believe any of those decisions would be. 02:43:48
Legislative order referral. 02:43:51
Contracts aren't legislative. 02:43:54
Planning isn't legislative. 02:43:57
Unless you get into land use decisions or things like that. So I guess as a council can I jump in? 02:44:00
Because I didn't get to do the building. Did you want to finish your thought? OK, I'll let you go. 02:44:07
It might be no, you're fine. It might be towards I kind of was leading to your e-mail, OK. 02:44:12
Because I guess as a council so. 02:44:18
I guess the concern has been said that. 02:44:21
If we have a referendum. 02:44:24
And. 02:44:27
And let's say they gather enough signatures. 02:44:29
I it kind of feels like. 02:44:32
Either direction, it's like this gamble of. 02:44:35
You know, if they get enough signatures and we're just continuing working business as usual, are we spending money potentially on 02:44:39
something that's just not going to happen? 02:44:44
And it's or not. 02:44:49
That's going to be put on hold and we're still investing into it and it could fail and we're still investing in it. We're still 02:44:51
investing in it. 02:44:54
I guess what I'm wanting to know from staff at some point is. 02:44:58
What costs are we? 02:45:02
Potentially incurring through this whole process. 02:45:05
And at what point do we want to have? 02:45:08
A city stay? 02:45:11
Where we're not spending funds that we don't know for sure we're actually going to get results out of. 02:45:12
Does that make am I not making sense? 02:45:17
You are making sense. 02:45:19
So there's nothing legally that you have to stop building, but practically. 02:45:21
Yeah, I understand the question. I let me. 02:45:26
I guess help you understand just the time frames on the referendum. 02:45:29
If packets go out this week. 02:45:33
The longest amount of time. 02:45:36
The referenda sponsors would have to gather signatures would be 45 days. 02:45:38
The way the statutes written. 02:45:44
They have up to 45 days from the time they receive packets. 02:45:46
But on. 02:45:51
The first day on which they began gathering signatures. 02:45:52
Then they only have 30 days from that date. 02:45:56
So to put it a different way, there's there's a potential 45 day envelope. 02:45:59
So to speak, within which signatures could be gathered. 02:46:06
But there's they can only use thirty of those 45 days, but they can kind of pick where they. 02:46:09
Want them to be so the city will know whether the. 02:46:15
Referendum. 02:46:19
Signature gathering effort is successful or not. 02:46:21
At the latest 45 days from the day they get the packets. 02:46:25
So you're looking at the most a six week period of knowing. 02:46:29
You know, is it or is it not going to qualify for the budget or for the ballot? 02:46:35
And then I guess the question for Eric and staff is within those 45 days, what are you spending resources on? 02:46:40
For my part. 02:46:48
I've had. 02:46:50
I do work for more cities than just veneer and I've also litigated on this and. 02:46:53
And had cases go all the way to the Supreme Court. 02:46:58
And the. 02:47:01
More often than not, these signature gathering efforts fail. 02:47:03
I don't think you want to assume an outcome one way or the other. 02:47:08
And I certainly don't say that, you know, wishing for one thing or the other on. 02:47:11
On the effort, it's my job to remain neutral. 02:47:17
To make sure the process is done legally. 02:47:21
But more often than not, they do fail. And so I I would caution you just it's a good question to ask, but I don't know that. 02:47:25
Stopping work on something on the expectation that a signature gathering effort will succeed. 02:47:35
Is supported by. 02:47:41
The data. So you haven't answered my last question. I ask a lot of questions. 02:47:43
Can I can I answer the question? 02:47:52
And it was kind of more directed my way. 02:47:54
I would just point out that. 02:47:56
Having the plans for the Vineyard Center in hand completed. 02:47:57
Have a durable value to us and so whether we built that? 02:48:03
This year or in the future? 02:48:06
They will be of value as you look at that. 02:48:09
Legal and fiscal evaluation. 02:48:12
It lays out. 02:48:15
The inherent costs of a pause. 02:48:16
But those inherent costs are not. 02:48:20
Don't do it because you don't want that in hand. We know that the need is there. We know that the city is growing. 02:48:23
And that we're going to need space for. 02:48:28
Housing staff to deliver the services by only needed for the city. 02:48:30
And so completing that. 02:48:34
That those plans. 02:48:36
Is of great value to us. 02:48:38
And then you didn't answer my question on what kind of question will be put on the ballot? 02:48:42
If the reference like, how do we? 02:48:48
Decide. Or how do they decide? Or who decides what that question looks like? 02:48:50
Pam does. 02:48:56
But but Pam doesn't have. 02:48:58
Unfettered discretion on what the language looks like the item being referred as the parameters resolution. 02:49:01
And she will have to craft ballot language. 02:49:07
That accurately describes the parameters, resolution and what it does. 02:49:11
And then there's. 02:49:16
Time in that process for. 02:49:19
Those for and against to pick it that way. 02:49:22
Language. Umm. 02:49:24
I I would disagree that. 02:49:28
It has value. It only has value if you're ever going to build it and if I listen to the sponsors of the referendum. 02:49:29
That's not the type of building that they would build. So having plans. 02:49:35
For a building they wouldn't build if it failed the ballot box, there would be, but there's a risk. 02:49:39
But the thing that I'm looking up at that I wanted to clear up. 02:49:45
Was umm. 02:49:48
Just kind of clearing up. 02:49:49
The different and I would never advocate for a general obligation bond or property tax bond for this at all. 02:49:52
However. 02:49:58
It's really important to understand that. 02:50:00
Because it's not of general obligation bond. 02:50:02
The full faith and credit of the city is not backing it. 02:50:06
So because of that, it's off of the. 02:50:09
Umm, sales tax. 02:50:12
Umm, up and down of the economy, right? 02:50:19
So therefore it's riskier and that's why the interest rate is so high. 02:50:22
Especially when we're putting it on. 02:50:26
100% on credit, right? 02:50:28
And I think you. 02:50:31
Made a good point. 02:50:32
In calling it a credit line because it's very similar like a credit line. 02:50:33
And the problem that we. 02:50:39
Find ourselves in right now. 02:50:41
Is that we? 02:50:43
Moved forward. 02:50:44
Without a credit line. 02:50:46
And we put $1,000,000 to $3,000,000 into plans. 02:50:48
Without getting pre approved on a credit line. 02:50:53
And that's and I would just advocate. 02:50:56
You know that's what I was saying in February is like let's go get pre approved for an amount that citizens would not. 02:50:59
Bakat on a referendum like a total dollar. 02:51:06
Get pre approval and then do the plans. But we did it reverse. 02:51:10
And what do you mean? What do you mean when you say go get pre approval? 02:51:14
Well, a bond. 02:51:20
And going and passing bond and then giving that seven day trigger period lets you know that. 02:51:22
Citizens don't have a problem with it, but because we've no, I mean how would we go get pre approval? Who are you talking about we 02:51:28
would get pre approval from? 02:51:32
The pre approval is going and passing a bond. 02:51:36
Legislative decision. 02:51:40
And then so we we learned today. 02:51:42
By doing the sales tax revenue bond that that is an administrative decision and we couldn't put it on the ballot. 02:51:45
I'm not talking, yeah, you're getting lost there. I'm, I'm talking about our sales tax bond. I'm saying we should have done a 02:51:53
sales tax. 02:51:56
Bond first. 02:52:00
Instead of the $1,000,000 in building the building because if we would have. 02:52:02
Put it out there. Hey, we're doing 35 million. 02:52:08
And do that legislative decision before, but it's not a legislative decision. Hold on. 02:52:11
Just a point of clarity between Jake and I. Number one, that's not a legislative decision to put out the bond. 02:52:17
That we couldn't have put it on the ballot number. Hold on. No, the legislative decision. The legislative decision. 02:52:23
Is to be able to refer the resolution. 02:52:32
The ability for us to put the sales tax revenue bond by ourselves on. 02:52:35
On the ballot is administrative. We're on the same page, OK, But there are two different things and I want to clarify it because 02:52:39
some people think we could have done it, but it's administrative until that point. Yeah, I'm definitely not resolutions or legal 02:52:44
law, definitely not saying that it would have been asked the citizens on November what I'm saying, OK. But second, I think I 02:52:49
understand you. 02:52:54
Is that? 02:52:59
Always in city process we plan first. 02:53:01
And then we go out and get the money. And this is what we did with the fire station. No, it is. 02:53:05
No, we do. Actually. We always do design. 02:53:11
And we do plans. 02:53:14
This is why the CMGC process is so important and what we're doing and what Marty asked to be on the website is to say. 02:53:16
What costs do we actually need? 02:53:24
But Jake, sales tax revenue funds don't usually go in that order. They go in this order. 02:53:28
That we're doing right now. I worked for construction and I get architectural drawings and then I submit a bid. 02:53:34
You know this process. 02:53:42
You submit a bid and then they go, oh, this is how much it's going to cost. 02:53:43
And then that's when these companies are like, oh, we need this many million. So I don't understand why you're saying we did it 02:53:48
backwards because I feel like that is typical process in the corporate world, construction cities standard and it brings down your 02:53:54
cost. We did it for the fire station we put out to process. People were worried about the cost and it ended up saving us 10s of 02:54:01
millions of dollars. And then we came up with this great plan because we put in the. 02:54:07
Long range plan first. 02:54:14
OK. But but in the construction world that is totally correct, right? Like so private people can go through and do that? 02:54:17
This is this and it's according to. 02:54:24
Well, we're following the codes that all of the cities follow. 02:54:28
When Marty says typical standard operating procedures. 02:54:33
Of these construction costs and the way that sales tax revenue bonds are put in by communities OK, I mean it doesn't matter I 02:54:37
guess we're arguing that the past but. 02:54:42
I think, well, we're not arguing about the past, We're arguing about the process. Yeah. And this is a good and healthy process 02:54:48
that we're supposed to be utilizing. And I think it's important to. 02:54:54
To clarify that, just like how we are supporting the right of the citizens to have a referendum. 02:55:02
Like it's not. 02:55:08
Like there's processes through all of this. 02:55:09
And specifically, our timelines have given them the opportunity to do a referendum. And if it gets, if they have their 02:55:12
accomplishment now, it can actually go on this year's ballot. 02:55:18
So, umm. 02:55:23
Yeah, that's another point that I think is really important. 02:55:24
The city couldn't. 02:55:28
Put it on the ballot because it's administrative. 02:55:30
But wanted the people, in case they wanted something different, to have the opportunity to put it on the ballot. 02:55:33
We. 02:55:41
It offers both sides. 02:55:43
But while we go through it. 02:55:46
The long range planning will save us in the future and Cash stated it nicely. 02:55:48
It was X amount. 02:55:53
Of space or person dictates the floor floor plate whether or not you wanted a different shape or design the information that we 02:55:56
will acquire from this. 02:56:01
Is important in all long range planning for the future. 02:56:07
And I believe that. 02:56:10
If people understood how the designs and all of the processes and the engineering was going into it to say. 02:56:12
This is what our staff needs. 02:56:19
This is what's happening. That information can always go to the future. We use this in all of our processes. 02:56:21
We use this in all of our long range planning and we've done it forever. That's what makes things shovel ready and then when we 02:56:28
get to that point, that's where we enter construction. So we're not starting on a building. 02:56:34
We're in the middle of design and that might mean we won't get to construction for a while. 02:56:40
And maybe this changes, you know, throughout the year, maybe as we're going through the numbers, we change that because. 02:56:44
As a council outside of everything that you're talking about with referendums. 02:56:50
As a council, we haven't even decided. 02:56:55
If we're going to move forward. 02:56:58
And so we're in design phase. 02:57:00
There's steps in the process that have to keep going. 02:57:03
My last comment and I think it's really important just to listen to cash and the adjustments. 02:57:07
Is. 02:57:14
You know, in just a month we went from there will be a library to now there isn't a library or it's significantly reduced. 02:57:15
But it was never stated that there would be in every discussion that we had. It was what we're exploring is this where we put 02:57:25
this, is this we have three different options for these facilities. 02:57:31
And that is what they're coming back and saying and in February. 02:57:37
You guys asked, can you bring these updates back? Can we see these things and that is what's occurring. We're bringing it back and 02:57:42
saying, OK. 02:57:47
We went and met with everybody. We went and asked the questions. We're exploring it and it makes most sense outside of this 02:57:52
building. 02:57:55
Is what you're commenting on was their feedback? Can I interject? Yeah. 02:57:59
So as far as the library. 02:58:04
We wanted the library board to make. 02:58:06
The decision. 02:58:09
Of how they wanted to grow. 02:58:10
And so in our meeting last night, the opportunity was there for them to go into the senior city. 02:58:12
Center, but they all wanted to stay here. 02:58:18
And utilize that top floor with the idea I don't know if any of you have. 02:58:22
Toward the other. 02:58:27
Libraries around like Springdale, or. 02:58:29
Spanish sport, they're pretty amazing. 02:58:32
And so. 02:58:34
Their goal was to utilize this with the idea that they could. 02:58:35
Potentially build something. 02:58:40
Really great in the next 5 to 10 years. 02:58:42
So this was the decision. 02:58:46
The library to stay here. 02:58:48
Was with the library board. 02:58:50
No, I I knew that I watched that. But but what I'm saying is, is that. 02:58:52
Even like to night of what we're saying and the flexibility and the type of construction, it's so flexible. 02:58:57
That it will change between here and August because it's still. 02:59:04
Conceptual. Umm. 02:59:08
And I think. 02:59:10
No, I don't think that's what they were saying. They're saying they're going to refine the details. What we're doing is we're 02:59:11
closing in on things and that the CMGC. 02:59:15
Will help that engineering find alignment with the design and go through a few more steps to make sure those numbers are coming 02:59:19
into play and that that. 02:59:24
There isn't designs that's not going to work according to construction needs and construction costs. 02:59:28
So that we don't see. 02:59:34
Things go over. 02:59:36
And what Eric was saying is that as we do that process those we're going to get a very close number. 02:59:38
Umm, a tight? What do you call it, a tight? 02:59:46
But a tight number according to comparables that also take into consideration your other comment, which is we don't know about 02:59:50
interest in all of these things, but there was an escalation that was built inside of it, right, Okay. 02:59:56
So to your point. 03:00:04
What are you most concerned about? So, so we can I understand, I know legally we don't have to put a state, but I would I would 03:00:07
just. 03:00:11
And I know I said this in February, I would go to the citizens first. 03:00:16
And find out the size and scope and put a stay on it. 03:00:21
I know just learning and just reaching out. I think there's a 5. 03:00:26
5 to $6 million, maybe $3,000,000 solution. 03:00:30
Trailers. 03:00:36
Portable things, Buying a house, allowing us to save. 03:00:38
Solutions that could umm. 03:00:42
Quickly get us going to. 03:00:45
Give us the ability to give us a bridge to three to five years. 03:00:49
But I also think in meeting with the. 03:00:52
The referendum sponsors. 03:00:55
Listening to what their concerns are. 03:00:57
You know, coming together to try to find a solution would be smart. 03:01:00
But I don't think I know legally we don't have to put a stay. 03:01:03
And they could continue to build the. 03:01:07
$30 million twenty 2 hour portion building but umm. 03:01:10
I don't think that is wise. 03:01:15
I have a question. 03:01:17
Eric was going first, but is it too late? I would like to. 03:01:19
When you say it's more affordable, like, do you? Do you sincerely not see like? 03:01:24
Because I hear this argument a lot and I don't feel like you kind of subscribe to it. 03:01:30
Is I think bonding is smart. 03:01:37
I think that with inflation and construction costs and if you if we would have built something five years ago or even with our 03:01:39
water tank is a good example. 03:01:43
If we would have been able to build it three years earlier, we would have saved. 03:01:47
I don't remember how many million someone threw out the number, but several million. 03:01:51
Do you? So my, my concern is I'm like looking at the practicality of all of this and I'm just saying from my opinion, I'm not 03:01:55
talking about the communities opinion because I know that. 03:02:00
Is very important and I'm trying to understand. 03:02:04
But what I'm trying to understand first is what I think is logical. 03:02:07
And what I think is logical is. 03:02:11
I worry that if we wait. 03:02:14
And save up or just basically saving up for an increase of cost? OK, so time. 03:02:16
Time out for a second. Did you have something to add to this before we have a discussion? Just wanted to clarify that that we did 03:02:22
do an evaluation of saving. 03:02:26
As opposed to building today. 03:02:31
And the conservative estimate that we find in the fiscal analysis? 03:02:33
Is 3.65 million. 03:02:38
Over the next five years, if we just waited five years. 03:02:40
The more realistic. 03:02:43
Healing of what it would cost us additionally additionally just on just standard inflation in construction costs. 03:02:45
The more realistic. 03:02:53
Estimate is 6% per year. 03:02:55
Which would bring us up to approximately $2,000,000. 03:02:58
Per year. 03:03:02
In added costs for every year that we waited. 03:03:03
And so somewhere between. 03:03:07
3.65 and 10 million. 03:03:09
That we would lose. 03:03:12
Simply by waiting five years to start. So hold on one second. That is for the project that we're looking at right now for the 16 03:03:14
to 18 point $1,000,000 box, correct. So if if we did change our mind to do something smaller, we would still have an increase, but 03:03:20
it wouldn't be that same increase. 03:03:25
Correct, but I guess the point being that. 03:03:31
That waiting on something that we know we need today, we're out of space. 03:03:34
We're toppling on top of each other, we're needing to rent new space and so forth. 03:03:39
That is, the need is not going away and so. 03:03:44
Acting today is prudent because of this this cost savings that that would produce. 03:03:49
So Jake, you mentioned trailers and things like this. I'm guessing what you're talking about is something separate than what 03:03:55
we'll. 03:03:59
Then or on Saratoga Springs, there's quite a few that have utilized portable trailers or homes. 03:04:03
Sorry that that wasn't my question, but thank you for clarifying. I think one of the reasons why we started this discussion and 03:04:11
what we'll be talking about. 03:04:15
At the public hearing with the designs. 03:04:20
And some of the numbers that we saw tonight that Cash was talking about with the space we needed. 03:04:23
Incorporates. 03:04:29
The trailers that we are working out of and the. 03:04:31
The other, but the other buildings that we have throughout the city and the space that we're utilizing right now and then it will 03:04:35
probably outline the facility plans that we have and we'll be able to look at all of that. 03:04:41
What I heard inside of your comment though was that you were looking for a stay period. 03:04:48
And Marty asked questions on it. You were talking about numbers that you put out into. 03:04:52
But there was a comment that there's a 30 day collection period that might be able to give us time to have a discussion with 03:04:59
within six weeks. 03:05:03
I'm sorry, what? 03:05:10
There's a little more time than what you're thinking because. 03:05:19
Once they turn in the packets. 03:05:22
The county has to. 03:05:24
Verify the. 03:05:26
The signatures and the voters. 03:05:28
And then my office has to. 03:05:30
Certify that. 03:05:33
OK. So I think something that we can take away from this conversation is this. 03:05:34
We are going to, we are already in process of designing something and I think it would be beneficial to go and talk to staff and 03:05:39
sit down with them and go through that facilities plan and look through these things to understand it better and where we're at. 03:05:47
Then we'll have the best opportunity to present kind of what? 03:05:54
You guys are coming up with as you're talking to the architect and the CMGC that you're bringing forward to show. 03:05:59
How that is helping design this project process for long range and why we do it? 03:06:07
And then outside of that, you guys can go back and forth and make that determination on when or where you want to take the next 03:06:14
step in voting. 03:06:19
And then that's outside of something else that will maybe take you to a ballot or maybe not take you to a ballot, which is 03:06:24
entirely separate from this conversation. 03:06:29
Sorry, I apologize. Could I ask one more clarifying question? 03:06:35
Council member Holdaway mentioned that that. 03:06:39
Going the sales tax bond route. 03:06:42
Came at a much higher interest rate. 03:06:45
As an expense, I wanted clarification on that because. 03:06:47
What we're going to go bond then what we're pursuing? 03:06:51
Is a non taxable. 03:06:54
Sales tax bond for the entire structure of the building, which is a. 03:06:56
Which is a Moat. 03:07:00
Quite a substantial discount from what it would be in any other format like a. 03:07:01
Like a private. 03:07:06
Loan would dictate. 03:07:08
Right, but it would be higher than a go. 03:07:10
And it is point. 03:07:14
Zero, 5% higher than a Geo bond. 03:07:16
Right, but it but that's substantial on a 39, not substantial. 03:07:20
I mean, I would like to understand your definition. I mean, on government record. I mean, yeah. 03:07:25
I just wanted to make sure it was clear that. 03:07:30
Oh .05%. I mean, yeah, you can't say that it's comparable to a private. 03:07:32
Mortgage because mortgage governments get government loan I mean they currently get that but as you review the. 03:07:38
The legal and fiscal impact. 03:07:44
The ability for government entities to get. 03:07:47
Tax exempt loan. 03:07:51
Has been discussed and has the potential to disappear here in the next. 03:07:54
Short while it's been, it's been discussed more and more frequently. 03:07:58
And so it may not be a thing of the future. Eric, I understand what you're saying. Here's my question. I'm going to put a point of 03:08:02
order for a second. I know, I know you did. And I'm trying to keep us legally safe. Just hold on one second. 03:08:10
I need to Jamie, I need a clarity on this so Eric's answered answering these questions that the. 03:08:17
Council is talking about but. 03:08:25
I feel like we're moving away from. 03:08:27
I mean, do you still feel like we're around the discussion? That's acceptable and OK. 03:08:31
Yeah, I don't. I think it's up to you. 03:08:36
Where you what you want the. 03:08:39
This work session to go on discussion what I want. I want to make sure we're not crossing. 03:08:41
No, I think you all, as members of the Council, can. 03:08:50
Freely debate these kinds of things. There are some of the questions that are now starting to be asked where I would say at least 03:08:55
for my part. 03:09:00
There's a reason you have bond Council and it's because I'm a city attorney and by definition a generalist and not a specialist 03:09:05
on. 03:09:09
On bonds. 03:09:13
And so there are some of the questions about. 03:09:14
Geo bonds visa vie these that. 03:09:17
You know, I've I've explained my understanding of it and if you want to go deeper than that. 03:09:20
I think I'd probably recommend you. 03:09:24
Bond Council and then they can provide that answer and they also could provide. 03:09:26
Some of the information about what's happening politically, nationally. 03:09:32
That, you know, might. 03:09:37
Pose a risk if you delay. 03:09:39
This type of bonding decision for a year, OK, if tax policy changes. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that we run right round 03:09:42
the question. 03:09:46
Yeah, if we're getting a private mortgage and we're going to take out a $32 million loan roughly we're going to be paying 90 03:09:51
million and I'll and obviously because we're taking out a, a bond. 03:09:57
Roughly, you know it's 32 and our interest rate is 46, so it's 14,000,000. I think that's all. 03:10:03
Or, sorry, 12 million. 03:10:10
I think 14,000,000 is a lot in interest. 03:10:12
And also the last point to your point of. 03:10:15
It increases by 6% for building. 03:10:17
Our our sales tax increases just about that as well. Our revenue does. So their building costs go up, but our sales tax ratio goes 03:10:20
up. 03:10:25
About the thing. 03:10:30
And so it doesn't get worse. It's not like our sales tax stays the same and building costs go up and it makes it harder. 03:10:31
They both kind of like as the notion. 03:10:37
Balance out for the most part so. 03:10:40
I'm still spending more even if we're bringing. Did you have something to respond to on that but I'm misunderstanding you? But 03:10:42
that was a really weird way to look at it. 03:10:46
I would just point out that it's. 03:10:50
On an $18 million bond. 03:10:53
A OH .05% distinction from A. 03:10:56
From a Geo to a sales tax bond is $9000. 03:10:59
Every year. 03:11:03
In total. 03:11:04
In total? In total. 03:11:06
So we'll still be paying 8 million though, right? 03:11:11
8 or 9 million in total interest. 03:11:13
On the loan. 03:11:16
How are we going to go from? 03:11:18
12 million in interest to. 03:11:20
Total interest. 03:11:24
I think that's because the bond parameters were at 35,000,000, so you were looking at a theoretical maximum, right? And now we're 03:11:26
talking no. 03:11:30
I heard that we're going down to somewhere between 60 1/2 to 18 1/2. 03:11:35
So we've cut that less than half. 03:11:39
So 18. 03:11:41
OK. So now we're at 6 million in interest. 03:11:43
And of that 6,000,000, we're talking about $9000 being the difference. 03:11:46
Still 6 million in interest though. But Jake, not all of us buy our houses of cash. Most city like a lot. 03:11:52
I get what you're saying. Like I understand that we need to have all the numbers. I just think it's kind of. 03:12:02
Like it's an opportunist. 03:12:09
Opportunistic way to argue your point. 03:12:11
Like when, when cities, when we go through that list of sales tax revenue bonds and he's listing all the amounts of. 03:12:15
That these different cities and organizations went to bond for. He's saying what they actually went to bond for, not what they 03:12:21
ended up paying in the end. And so I think you're just trying and. 03:12:25
You have your right to sell it the way you want to sell it, but I think that you're creating so much. 03:12:30
You're like trying to make. 03:12:37
A standard type thing, the fact that like you should be celebrating, you've been frustrated that it's up to 35 million and now 03:12:39
we're talking about up to 18.5 and it's like. 03:12:44
That's really cool that we like we took and we acknowledged that maybe we shouldn't do the library there and the library board, 03:12:49
that's how they agree we took it where we're not doing the least out space and that's something that you have been really 03:12:55
frustrated with and a lot of your supporters and then we've made it more practical so that we're not. 03:13:01
They were being more practical with our space. 03:13:06
It just to me is just really. 03:13:09
It's a bummer that you don't celebrate any part of that. You're just like, oh, well, now I just how can I make it sound higher? 03:13:12
How can I make it sound higher? And I was doing the interest before on the 32 and I'm doing the interest amount. And that's, 03:13:18
you're right. And I'm glad that you're logical with the numbers, but it's just not all of us can afford to put cash down on a 03:13:24
house. And so I think the way you look at things is a little different than the way I look at things. 03:13:30
Look at things and I don't know if it's logical with the numbers not to be rude. I think it's a assumption. It's like a black and 03:13:36
white of. 03:13:40
What might be when we pay it back, how we pay it back, we might pay more, we don't actually know. This is a conservative estimate 03:13:44
where we're doing 1% for all sales tax increase, which over the last. 03:13:51
X amount of years to spend an average of 39% sales tax increase and we're already down to 1%. That's how we're measuring it. Is 03:13:58
that the most conservative? 03:14:03
Percentage. 03:14:08
And so when when I want to be really clear that just throwing out those numbers and not actually knowing. 03:14:09
What we'll be able to do but saying that we can do this. 03:14:16
Is pretty remarkable. There's a. There's a big difference in what you're saying and what is. 03:14:20
Going to happen and and in government finance to to have a bond that has a. 03:14:25
Certain payment amount every year makes it much easier for a city to be able to. 03:14:32
To navigate and to. 03:14:38
Control the expenditures. 03:14:41
Instead of just like saving well this year we can save 500,000, next year we can save 250. 03:14:43
This gives them. 03:14:50
A way to put it in the budget so it makes sense and so it it balances the budget every year. Not only that, but you were talking 03:14:51
about compromising a bunch of our opportunities in the future, what we'll be able to do with our essential services and police. 03:14:58
And you were saying we're not going to have any money in the future. But this is one of the reasons why you go through these 03:15:04
financing processes and pay things over time so that you can manage your budget. 03:15:10
Wisely and according to who's coming, how things are growing. 03:15:17
Are we, if you really were going to compare apples to apples with somebody like Orem and say, OK, we've been in Crown Basement, 03:15:21
shared office space, working out of multiple facilities, having our stuff in trailers, all of these things and saying how many 03:15:28
times did other communities expand their buildings? 03:15:35
Take out different ponds, build multiple facilities. None of this is being accounting. 03:15:42
Accounted for in any of these discussions. 03:15:47
And now we're talking about a city next to us that is so big. 03:15:50
And at a very different. 03:15:55
Set of part of their journey. We're early on. We're at this place where we cannot survive. Inside of this, we need to do something 03:15:57
different. We've been extremely creative. 03:16:03
And now we're saying, look at. 03:16:10
The way that we're able to do this, not burdening our tax, not burdening our citizens not. 03:16:12
Umm, making it so they won't have their sensible services, rather protecting their essential services. 03:16:19
And we're doing it in a really thoughtful way. 03:16:25
And it's been something we've been planning for a long time. 03:16:28
And you're not accounting for that in these discussions. 03:16:31
I, I would, I would definitely say this has been a happy meeting in terms of seeing it come down and I can totally be corrected on 03:16:35
that and, and I'm grateful. 03:16:40
Hold on a point of clarity to that point. 03:16:46
Just a point of clarity on that. 03:16:49
For the whole Council. 03:16:51
Take the win, not about coming down. I think this is important to know. 03:16:53
$35 million is the bond parameter. Everybody has to understand this. 03:16:58
This is about honing in on the actual costs. 03:17:06
And so we have to clarify those two points inside this discussion. 03:17:10
And it is nice that we're talking about more realistic numbers right now. 03:17:14
And it is a win, but I don't want us to get lost. 03:17:20
In that because it has been a point of confusion. 03:17:25
I don't think it's been confusion. I think people understand that. 03:17:29
You know, hey, this is a total credit line possibilities we're going to ask for this much and it could be a little bit less. 03:17:32
That's the confusion that that that isn't the accuracy. What you just said is not accurate. 03:17:39
It wasn't like, oh, we could, we could do this. 03:17:44
And now we're going to go down. It's up. 03:17:48
We said we had a bond parameter and we wanted to go get you and everybody the number. 03:17:50
Of what it actually would cost, just that we would be OK if the city ever thought to take out 35, not that it was actually going 03:17:56
to be 35. 03:18:00
You know I was. 03:18:04
I understand when you guys say we can make a payment. I've heard that a lot at dealerships. I I get it. 03:18:07
But what? But I was having a conversation with Mayor Young. 03:18:14
This week. 03:18:17
And he calls me and he goes. 03:18:18
You guys have four times your property tax rate. 03:18:20
He wanted to learn about MAG and all of that. 03:18:23
And he goes, how are you guys even conceivably thinking about that? And I'm like. 03:18:26
And that's where I'm coming from, is I'm coming from A. 03:18:31
I'm hearing that people are just. 03:18:37
Our water, our sewer and our property taxes are so high. 03:18:40
That they are. 03:18:44
This, and I hate to say this, but we are the poor kid on the block. We do not have the tax base of all of these surrounding 03:18:46
cities. 03:18:50
And so nor do we spend what they are spent, right. We have 12 million, they have 152 million, right. But that's what I'm saying 03:18:54
is, is the size and scope of this is still so large. 03:19:00
That I am hearing from. 03:19:06
I've done lots of roundtables on this. 03:19:09
3 to 5 million and that solves our staffing problem. 03:19:12
Like it's a problem 8 to 10 years. Yeah, no, we did that. But we're. So here's the thing, we can't. 03:19:16
We can't 100% predict growth and I feel like well and before that I don't even think that 3.5 million is. 03:19:24
I don't think his practicers, I don't think he's still, but listen. 03:19:32
You're saying 3.5 million? 03:19:36
Which would basically build like. 03:19:39
A big house. 03:19:41
And what we have now, you're not going to get like office space for what we actually need. And then you might maybe we just go 03:19:43
super frugal, super practical like. 03:19:48
Awesome. Let's you know, put. 03:19:53
You know little band aids here on a brand new project. 03:19:55
Like I just don't see that as feasible and it's instructive to our services. But what I'm trying to say, Jake, is. 03:19:59
We looked a lot of our problems in Vineyard have to do with how fast we grew and we tried to plan for something like our water 03:20:07
tank or our public works building or even this facility. We plan for things and then we're like, oh crap, five years later it's 03:20:11
not big enough. 03:20:16
Or even it's completed and Oh my gosh, we're not going to have to build another one of these. Or when this was completed, we had 03:20:21
to immediately expand it. 03:20:25
Yeah. So what I'm trying to say, Jake, is. 03:20:29
I it's not you're not planning ahead for the future. I just, it's just. 03:20:31
I had a great story from Councilmember Christian the other day where he walks in and he doesn't like it when you bring up his 03:20:36
name. 03:20:39
He doesn't have to. I just heard the story. I don't know. He can like it or not like it. Trump. Trump or Obama or whoever. 03:20:42
Told the story about a newlywed couple coming in and saying I got to come in and buy a $4000 home and they're like but no I'm 03:20:48
going to have 4 kids and he goes. 03:20:52
Great. 03:20:56
When you guys get one or two, get out of your starter home. This right here. 16.5 versus 35, I feel like we're meeting the middle. 03:20:57
The metal stuff that you're talking, his story was instead of needing a big custom home. 03:21:06
Let's get into something in between and I have been working really hard with staff. 03:21:14
Everyone has been working really hard with staff to take it from Custom 35,000,000 with retail space or not retail with leased out 03:21:20
office space and a library and all these things. 03:21:25
And then now it's 16.5 to 18.5 and I'm like we found are in between and you can't like thank you for acknowledging that that is 03:21:31
good. But it's like. 03:21:37
It's never good enough, and that's why I feel like it's kind of hard to work with you sometimes. I'm not the, I'm not the 03:21:43
referendum sponsors. I'm just I'm, I'm, I'm helping you understand their logic. Jake, that was a really funny statement. I know 03:21:47
you're not the referendum sponsor. 03:21:52
I know you're not the referendum or not, they're not doing that. 03:21:58
We're gonna go with that story. 03:22:02
And say hey, if you're a young couple and you don't buy a house for when you've got your 4 kids. 03:22:04
We're already a couple with 10 kids and we've got a trailer out front and we've got kids living in there and we've got a tent in 03:22:11
the backyard and we can't parent them because they're in another facility. They can't come to dinner. 03:22:19
No one is known as arguing about not getting and sizing up to another big home. 03:22:27
And it's doable to get to the thighs and I, I just, I'm just trying to help you guys. I know they're not here. I think it would be 03:22:31
a great. 03:22:34
Conversational discussion to bring them in during the public comment period in a month. 03:22:37
Yes, they'll have that opportunity and I look forward to the public hearing. I want community buying on this. I don't think I know 03:22:41
better than our community. What I'm trying to say is I want to share facts. 03:22:47
I want to share reasonable information all. 03:22:53
All the information and then I want everyone to look at it and go. 03:22:55
You know what? I still think this. 03:22:59
This project's not great and I can't get behind it. Or, you know, actually this is more reasonable. I think it makes sense. 03:23:01
Quit calling it something it's not, and I actually will support it. But what I what I find really difficult and why we have such a 03:23:08
hard time in our city getting along is because everybody, everybody. I'm not saying just one side or the other, but I just feel 03:23:15
like we're always going, we're over here and we're over here. And I'm just trying to say, let's come together and talk logic. And 03:23:22
if we're all in the same reality and we're all in the same headspace and we still disagree. 03:23:29
Then let's go from there. 03:23:36
But I just feel like you're you've kind of got this agenda where we have this really cool. 03:23:38
Success of getting this down South much lower and you're like let's tear this down tear it down tear it down tear it down and it's 03:23:43
like can we just. 03:23:47
For a minute, come to the table and think about. 03:23:51
Some kind of collaboration, and I just don't feel like we get that from you. 03:23:55
So how many of you guys talked about shrinking it down with any of the? 03:23:59
Referendum sponsors. 03:24:04
That I've talked to several residents. The referendum sponsors are not my only right or any residents #2 I've talked to several. 03:24:05
But shrinking it shrink, shrinking it down. 03:24:10
I want to talk about this as a a longer conversation. This isn't a reactive thing that's happening. I'm sure that people are here 03:24:16
are having conversations in their own time with those people because everybody here has been very collaborative. 03:24:25
This is a multi year project. 03:24:35
Where we have been looking at houses, trailers, multiple facilities, we've been renting out other spaces, we're sharing our 03:24:38
conference rooms. 03:24:43
There, this has been going on of. 03:24:48
Can all of the things that you're bringing to the table, that's where we've been. That's where we've been starting. That's how 03:24:51
we've been growing. That's why we're all over the place. That's why there's so many people in different rooms. That's why there's 03:24:55
a guy sitting in the printer alcove. 03:25:00
That is what we're doing. 03:25:05
And so it's not that we don't want to be fiscally conservative. 03:25:07
It's not that we're not taking the time to think what do these people want? 03:25:11
Everybody up here lives here and doesn't want. 03:25:15
To spend our money frivolously. 03:25:18
And so you can be rest assured that people are talking. 03:25:21
When I take the time to go and look on Facebook, on multiple pages, you're all having conversations. Nobody up here. 03:25:25
Is not having conversations with people. 03:25:32
And coming up with an idea and sharing their plans and having people send them their drawings. 03:25:35
We've been looking at engineering costs any way that we can make it. 03:25:40
More affordable to our people, We do it. 03:25:45
And one of the ways that we did this is. 03:25:49
You can see it with the fire station, you'll be able to see it with this building and the longevity that we come up with in the 03:25:52
end will be good and we hope. 03:25:55
That when we start with all the facts on the same page, that we make the right decision and that it is not. 03:25:59
And that we come to the table. 03:26:05
Do you guys really want to keep going? 03:26:07
OK. 03:26:10
OK. 03:26:12
Senate of Budget. 03:26:14
So any could we? 03:26:17
Is there any appetite for anyone to put a stay for the 45 days? 03:26:19
And I'm going to bring it back to you. 03:26:54
Sorry, I saw him getting a little whiplashed up. He changed gears so quick that I'm trying to. 03:27:06
Get this pulled up. 03:27:10
Can you hear me now? 03:27:12
OK. Sorry, I think everyone's pretty aware of the budget process. We started in February with the council retreat where we came up 03:27:15
with our strategic goals. 03:27:20
Since that time, each department is met with the finance department and requested everything that they needed for their 03:27:26
departments. 03:27:29
And then we came together as a budget committee. This year is the first year we have actually had a budget committee. 03:27:33
And it is the mayor and council member. 03:27:39
Klassen, Eric, myself. 03:27:42
Naseem, who is our public works director, and Morgan, who is our community development director. 03:27:45
So the budget that I have presented to the council tonight is what we have come up with so far. We need, what we need to have is 03:27:50
additional review from council members. 03:27:56
So the reason we are presenting this two weeks before I was initially going to give the tentative budget. 03:28:02
Is so that the Council can look at what we've put together so far. 03:28:07
We will be scheduling meetings one-on-one with each of the council members. 03:28:11
Where we can do a deep dive answer any questions that they have. 03:28:15
And look at suggestions for projects that we need to include or exclude. So that is what's brought us to this point. 03:28:19
I'm sorry, that was really quick and dirty. 03:28:27
On the slide I have just pulled up a couple of projects. 03:28:30
So that the citizens are aware of what we are talking about in the budget. 03:28:34
So there's a couple slides here that show the capital projects fund and what our plans are for this year. 03:28:38
I did want to mention that some of our projects are tied to grant fund. 03:28:45
And we will not hear about the grants for sure until the end of May. So some of those are tied to grant funds and maybe cut just 03:28:50
if we don't get the grant. 03:28:53
I think we have three different projects. 03:28:59
That are in that situation. 03:29:01
OK, perfect. So. 03:29:03
What I'm hearing, Christy is. 03:29:05
Here's a capital projects list. 03:29:07
For our residents to just look at really quick. 03:29:11
And. 03:29:13
Pay attention to can you go back to that other slide? 03:29:14
Pay attention to. 03:29:18
Umm. 03:29:23
You have documents that you can review and start scheduling your meetings. 03:29:24
With Christie and Eric. 03:29:30
So that you are prepared. 03:29:33
To accept the tentative budget, by law we have to accept it on May 14th. 03:29:35
You need to have all of your questions for accepting it. Now we're not adopting it. 03:29:40
Or accepting it right And then you will have. 03:29:46
Multiple weeks, almost 8 weeks. 03:29:49
6 to 8 weeks to go through and ask all of your questions, make changes, we'll bring it back to the public. 03:29:52
But you need to be prepared. 03:30:00
Each council person has to take that on. 03:30:02
To make sure that you can accept it on the 14th. 03:30:06
OK, umm. 03:30:09
And if I could add 1 little clarity. 03:30:10
Accepting it is. 03:30:14
Very akin to the UPS man showing up at your door with the signature required. 03:30:16
And you sign it, and then you take it and you open it up inside you. 03:30:21
Inspect what's in it. 03:30:24
You're not. You're not suggesting that you approve anything that's in it. You're not accepting the numbers. You're simply 03:30:25
accepting that it's now in your hands. You've received it. You've received it. 03:30:29
OK, it's getting late. Let's accept it. 03:30:33
OK, let's see. 03:30:36
That brings us to public comments. 03:30:38
If anybody has any public comments, please raise your hand so I can see how many there are. 03:30:43
There's three. OK, come on up. 03:30:48
Do you mind sharing yours during your council member report? 03:30:52
I'm a citizen on this one, OK? 03:30:55
I have so many notes scattered around my. 03:31:00
Hey, note Terry Ewing and I'm Terry. 03:31:03
And I'm from the. 03:31:06
And I just have to say at the start, you guys. 03:31:09
Started this mess. 03:31:12
Every one of you responsible for throwing out. 03:31:14
That $35 million bond. 03:31:17
And explaining how you had gone through and validated it was a great. 03:31:20
Estimate and where you got it from and we were all OK. 03:31:25
Right, 35 million. 03:31:28
So what did? 03:31:31
The whole people that are watching, listening. 03:31:32
Everybody here has been talking about a $35 million bond since you started this. 03:31:37
And now you're going to blame somebody else for not being happy because. 03:31:43
Tonight we find out without. 03:31:47
The rest of the community even knowing that it could be half. 03:31:50
I don't think that's fair. 03:31:54
Umm, you talk about costs going up in three years Because if we wait. 03:31:56
When you were talking, you already said the statement. We've been talking about building this for years. 03:32:01
Why didn't you start saving? 03:32:08
What happened to that? 03:32:11
Not a, not a cent. 03:32:13
And then the other thing that annoyed me the first time I saw it was that list of ponds. 03:32:16
When LRB posted them in here for our presentation. 03:32:22
They even have the discussion while those who weren't all tax revenue bonds. 03:32:27
And they were right. 03:32:31
It wasn't. 03:32:33
And to compare. 03:32:34
Our tax revenue bond. 03:32:38
With a State of Utah bond. 03:32:40
A Department of Transportation bond. A Salt Lake City bond. 03:32:43
A county bond. 03:32:49
It's not right. 03:32:51
That's not comparing apples to apples. 03:32:52
OK. 03:32:55
You still don't have plans. 03:33:00
And I'm familiar enough. 03:33:03
With construction to know. 03:33:04
If you guys don't have a clue. 03:33:06
Until you get the biz. 03:33:08
You got to send out. 03:33:10
And we don't know. I mean, they weren't, we were told they weren't even going to have them finished until July. 03:33:14
Now according. 03:33:19
Update here tonight. It might be even longer. 03:33:21
But when LRB was here and you voted yes. 03:33:25
That that was, I believe. 03:33:30
Gave them the right to go out or the trigger to go out and start selling bonds. 03:33:33
How are they going to sell a bond if they don't? If it's. 03:33:41
A difference between 1618 million and 35 million. 03:33:44
Who's going to you? Don't buy bonds on chance. 03:33:49
Maybe. 03:33:53
The last thing? 03:33:58
Maybe a last thing. 03:34:00
The fire station. And what a great fire station it is. 03:34:03
I went down to the Provo fire station. I was taking a bunch of seven-year olds on a trip. 03:34:06
And. 03:34:12
They have a ladder truck. 03:34:14
They have an EMT vehicle. They have a water truck. 03:34:16
They have another emergency rescue thing. 03:34:19
And we don't have a room for a water for a ladder truck, but yet we're building 4 and five story buildings here. 03:34:24
Plus they say, well we might be able they have a letter we might be able to get. 03:34:32
Four stories if there was a fire up there, but it depends on how close to the building we can get. 03:34:37
And we don't even have. 03:34:42
A ladder truck. 03:34:43
So there's just so many things that I just. 03:34:46
Hear all this going on? 03:34:51
It's just. 03:34:52
Who's going to go back to the city? 03:34:55
And now try and sell, it's going to be an $18 million bond. 03:34:57
We still don't have a fit. We have no idea. 03:35:01
And furthermore, when I think about it. 03:35:05
You said we didn't even eat a whole floor. 03:35:07
But we're building 4. 03:35:12
I think that's all I need. 03:35:17
Can I just make a request? I'm not responding. I would love to talk to you after because I think there's a lot of things that you. 03:35:18
Aren't aware of it, could clarify. 03:35:26
With fire stations. 03:35:29
And things like that. So I would really like to help. I'm cool with the fireplace station in where it is. That's fine. No, no, 03:35:31
with having a ladder. You can address her afterwards, but yes, OK, that was. 03:35:38
Minor compared to the rest of this. Well, I would still like to talk to you to make sure you understand what we have and don't 03:35:45
have, OK? 03:35:48
All right. Thank you, Terry. 03:35:53
Next, Daria. Thank you. 03:35:55
Umm, I've waited. 03:36:00
3 1/2 hours to say thank you. 03:36:03
I would, I would appreciate it. Oh, Daria Evans Villas. Thank you. 03:36:06
I would appreciate it if we did work sessions after public comments. 03:36:11
Because then you guys can argue and do what you need to do and. 03:36:16
I can go home, go to bed. 03:36:21
I just want to say nothing. You are awesome. 03:36:25
Where'd you go? Oh, there you are. 03:36:28
He is really good, he is really awesome. He always answers my questions thoroughly and I appreciate him. 03:36:31
First off also I'm glad that you're not doing the timer since I've waited so long, so thank you. 03:36:39
I am glad to. 03:36:44
I'm very happy that the take back expired no longer used medication day. 03:36:49
At City Hall with a success, I'm glad that Jane Pierce asked me to help her distribute Flyers along with. 03:36:54
Eric, Eric and Cindy Walker. 03:37:01
Yes. Umm. 03:37:04
It was really good and it was a success and I'm thankful for that. 03:37:05
I want to give a shout out. 03:37:09
Thanks to Deputy Ryan and Deputy Stilson. 03:37:11
For helping keep the children safe at the crosswalks at 400 N and Main St. 03:37:14
The sewer repair and Rd. reconstruction have caused some scary situations for our crossing guards. 03:37:20
I was with Heather, the crossing guard, yesterday, Tuesday. 03:37:28
And I asked her how it went to day. 03:37:32
If I may, I would like to read her responses. 03:37:34
Yes, Deputy Stilson stayed with us both shifts. He was awesome. 03:37:46
Especially needed during the morning drive time shift. 03:37:51
When the arrow light turned yellow and cars wanted to flip AU turn, he would step out into the road and justice pointed at them to 03:37:54
keep going. 03:37:59
It was great. 03:38:03
Yesterday was my only stressful day on the corner in eight months. Today was actually entertaining. 03:38:04
That day before I saw. 03:38:12
Cars through EU turn in the crosswalk while the children are on the corner and they're making 3 point turns. It was very 03:38:15
dangerous. Also, cement trucks had done that, according to her. 03:38:20
OK. 03:38:25
And then also, she says yesterday Deputy Ryan came and met with us at the end of the morning shift. 03:38:27
To see what we needed. 03:38:33
I believe he's the one who ordered the setting up of all the cones so that they couldn't take U turns. 03:38:34
And then he sent deputies still soon to check on us and he could see what was happening and he stayed the entire time helping 03:38:40
direct traffic and keeping our kids safe. 03:38:45
Deputy still since that he will be back in the morning. 03:38:51
Tomorrow. 03:38:54
So thank them, that's very good. I really am grateful because. 03:38:54
That's our future and. 03:39:01
These people are just a little. 03:39:04
Out of sorts, they're just maniacs on the road. 03:39:07
And it's very scary. 03:39:11
And. 03:39:13
Then I'd just like to. 03:39:15
Say that. Oh. 03:39:22
Yeah, I was very happy. 03:39:24
To learn that Utah City is planning for schools. I learned about that in April. 03:39:25
And I was glad that. 03:39:30
Nate gave us more information on that tonight. 03:39:32
That schools are coming. 03:39:35
And also the churches. A church building is coming. 03:39:37
I have a couple of questions and concerns. 03:39:41
I'm wondering about the Vineyard Beach shoreline improvement plan. 03:39:44
Has FFSL completed their review yet? 03:39:48
We're at a 3.6 million grant for that currently. And when will it expire? 03:39:53
The city has started talking about this improvement since July of 2033 for grading and trail improvement. 03:40:00
And then my last concern was. 03:40:08
I'm concerned that the notice on April 3rd about the proposed City Hall total bond amount. 03:40:11
Was not shared during the special session. 03:40:18
46,000,000 That is more than what was talked about during the Council meeting. 03:40:21
I wish. 03:40:27
That that notice was here and that you had. 03:40:28
Given it to us. 03:40:32
Because that would have cleared up a lot of things. 03:40:33
Instead of finding out after the fact. Thank you. 03:40:36
What she was saying was. 03:40:43
On April 3rd, we spoke about the bond parameters and because they understand the numbers of building costs. 03:40:46
In correlation to them, they wish they knew the building cost. 03:40:54
But they were focused on the bond parameters because we were passing the resolution for the bond parameters. So there's two things 03:40:58
happening. 03:41:02
Where? 03:41:06
It was posted on the bulletin. Hold on one second, Daria, do you want to go ahead and clarify what you're saying? 03:41:08
Yes, please. 03:41:13
On the bulletin board. 03:41:15
Daria Evans. 03:41:19
Phyllis, on the bulletin board out there is the. 03:41:20
Parameters what the total cost of the bond with the interest was which would be up to 46,000,000 if that 35. 03:41:25
Pass. And I wish that you had presented that in the meeting. Where is that documentary? And you you saw the number 46? 03:41:32
OK. 03:41:44
Maybe we can clarify that with somebody so that we can understand. I just wish that you had. 03:41:45
Presented it at this special session of Council on April 3rd. You just talked about 35,000,000. Hold on. Just just so we 03:41:53
understand what Gary is talking about. I'm sorry, can you pull it up, Pam? 03:41:58
OK, I got it right here. 03:42:05
It's on the filter board. 03:42:10
That was the public notice that was sent out. And then you're right, I don't know if we to everyone. 03:42:15
Of bond parameters. 03:42:22
OK, see things you wish we would have talked about all of it. Just like how tonight we talked about how it's important to know all 03:42:25
the numbers. So wait a second, come back to the microphone. What did you want us to talk about? I just wanted to this presented. 03:42:31
At the meeting, it was posted April 3rd, the day of the meeting and nobody said the whole thing. 03:42:37
And nobody said, no one said it, nobody said what, nobody said this. That would be up to 46 million. 03:42:42
OK. 03:42:50
You didn't talk about all of the numbers. 03:42:52
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm getting upset. I'm tired. 03:42:56
Karen Cornelius Villas. 03:43:00
I agree we need to have this public discussion before. 03:43:03
But there's there's a few things here on my list. 03:43:06
I don't know why I've been to so many meetings, but this is the first time I've heard of the three million that we are 03:43:10
contributing. All I've ever heard is we were contributing 1,000,000 to plan. 03:43:15
Thought half a million was coming from MAG. 03:43:21
And where is this other 1.5 million coming from? I've never heard of it. 03:43:25
We were always told there was number cash, it was going to be a total bond. 03:43:29
So this is really disconcerting. 03:43:34
To learn this and I feel like this meeting tonight only happened because we have started the referendum process. 03:43:37
And it makes it look like you guys need to come to terms with a with a smaller number. 03:43:44
That's fine. 03:43:50
But I want to know why we have never heard. 03:43:52
About that 1.5 million. 03:43:54
Another thing that really bothers me. 03:43:58
Is when Sarah held her. 03:44:00
Umm, town halls. And she gave only facts. 03:44:04
One of the facts probably is coming back to bite you, and that was the fact that we only need 20% of that floor space. 03:44:07
For our employees and for our. 03:44:14
City Services. 03:44:17
Why in the heck do we need 4 floors when we only need 20% a half a floor? 03:44:19
For city staff. 03:44:26
This is really concerning to citizens. 03:44:27
We don't have this kind of money to throw away. I don't know anybody in today's economy that has that kind of money to throw away. 03:44:31
And if we in fact do get the sales tax for projecting. 03:44:36
Think of the wonderful things we could do if it's not all going to 1 building. 03:44:42
Think of the things that we could do in our community. 03:44:46
For our citizens, For our staff. 03:44:49
We don't have to waste it all in one place. 03:44:51
For one grand place. 03:44:55
That is going to be a monument to someone. 03:44:57
And that's how it feels. 03:45:00
Another problem I have is. 03:45:02
In the paperwork that we got from the city. 03:45:04
Accepting our referendum. 03:45:07
There's a fiscal impact part from Jamie. 03:45:09
And I just want to clarify. 03:45:13
That there is not an expense on there. 03:45:15
That we, the citizens own. 03:45:18
You have known for months. 03:45:20
Perhaps even years. 03:45:22
That this was going to be a hard pill for us to swallow, but you have moved ahead. 03:45:24
You have spent money and you have incurred costs and do not come back and say. 03:45:28
That these costs are a result of anything that we did, because they are not. 03:45:34
They are not, and I want that to be clear. 03:45:39
OK, I understand. 03:45:43
Umm. 03:45:45
The other thing I want to know. 03:45:52
Is I've heard. 03:45:54
To night many times that we have an MOU. 03:45:55
With Mag. 03:45:58
When will we see a contract? 03:46:00
I keep hearing about. 03:46:03
If when we hope, we expect. 03:46:05
But when will we still contract? 03:46:08
That is a big deal with respect to this going through. 03:46:10
Right, Sarah, it's a big deal. 03:46:15
I don't know how. How long do you want us to expect? 03:46:19
To accept an MOU. 03:46:22
We need to know that they are in this for dollars and cents, not just a great understanding and a handshake. 03:46:25
We need more than that. 03:46:31
So that's my concerns tonight. Thank you. 03:46:33
My name is Jake Holdaway, resident Holdaway Rd. 03:46:44
I'm coming to stand before you guys because I feel like I'm being treated like. 03:46:49
A citizen. 03:46:54
I started in. 03:46:57
November of last year. 03:46:58
When I got a couple of complaints. 03:47:01
From a few employees saying you need to look at the gas and fuel of our city. 03:47:04
It was the same thing that came in. 03:47:10
About. 03:47:12
Traveling the world. 03:47:13
And I was very patient. I went to the right staff. 03:47:14
I went to Eric and said I would like this. 03:47:18
In my first meeting, I was told that point of sale information was not. 03:47:20
Collected by our vendor. 03:47:24
After that, they came back and told the story that they did, but we were going to change vendors. 03:47:27
Then I started down the process. 03:47:33
Of trying to get the Ledger because I knew the information was there. 03:47:35
After not getting the Ledger. 03:47:38
In a public meeting February I came and did that and said I need the Ledger. 03:47:41
I then started the process with the state auditor. 03:47:45
I had to do that. 03:47:48
As a governing board member. 03:47:50
I had to go. 03:47:53
And you guys got a letter saying? 03:47:54
Turn it over. 03:47:56
And we questioned. 03:47:57
A real letter is it? Don't. 03:47:59
It then takes a month 1st to get it. 03:48:01
And then I again waited. 03:48:04
The issue should not be adversarial. I believe that I am acting in good faith to help the citizens to be transparent regarding 03:48:06
their finances. 03:48:10
And I want to remind you that. 03:48:15
Last year when I did, I did the same thing. I had the same person. 03:48:17
Come to me and say you should look for trips overseas. 03:48:21
I was patient. 03:48:25
I didn't play games. 03:48:26
And I just, it's come to a point where. 03:48:28
There are three things that are happening within our city. 03:48:32
The state only allows. 03:48:35
Mandates the city to do three things. 03:48:37
An annual budget, but our annual budget is so high level that there's no detail. 03:48:40
And as long as this governing board. 03:48:45
Is allowed to have a vague, vague budget with high thresholds. We will never know what's in it. 03:48:47
#2. 03:48:53
Our procurement policy is again required by state because our thresholds are so high. 03:48:54
And so vague. 03:49:00
That our mayor and city manager can approve anything under $125,000. That means me as a City Council member and these people as 03:49:01
citizens will never know about it if it's under that threshold. 03:49:07
It's 125,000. 03:49:14
So because of that, again, I'm treated like a citizen. 03:49:16
And then third. 03:49:20
Because of those thresholds, I don't approve anything, so I'm just a citizen. 03:49:21
The restricted access to ledgers. 03:49:25
We have citizens that have asked for the ledgers, but because we. 03:49:28
Have been told we do not remove. 03:49:32
Minor information or citizens information that we've been instructed last year by the state to do so. 03:49:34
One citizen went and asked for the letter themselves and was charged $2000 in order to get it. So then they turn away and don't do 03:49:41
it. Those are the only three things to be transparent. 03:49:46
For our citizens to be able to know what's going on. 03:49:52
And as long as all four of you guys are all in alignment, I'm never going to know and we can delay the five months that I've been 03:49:55
asking to get these past ledgers. 03:49:59
And I'm not accusing that there is something. 03:50:04
But the previous person it was correct. 03:50:06
And I've worked in good faith. 03:50:09
And as a citizen. 03:50:11
Those 3 legged stool of being detailed in our budget, we don't have it. 03:50:14
The procurement code and threshold are so high that I don't even approve anything we've approved. I've approved this. 03:50:21
Snow plow and one other thing. 03:50:27
The vast majority of it. 03:50:29
I will never know if we're traveling the world. 03:50:31
One or two things here or there. 03:50:35
For the travel, I don't even know where we travel around the country. I don't have to know because you guys keep it as travel or 03:50:37
memberships. 03:50:41
Right. It's not on any public record. 03:50:45
No travel. We have no. 03:50:50
Please wait. 03:50:52
Please wait. 03:50:53
Please wait. Please wait. 03:50:54
There's a few things that are in the consent items. Yeah, there's a snow pile for 125,000, right? 03:50:58
OK, go ahead and finish. 03:51:03
I just I just approaches the citizens that it's not illegal because the state allows us to put these policies in to be vague and 03:51:05
non transparent. 03:51:09
But it's upon us to have best. 03:51:13
I if I hear one more time that it's. 03:51:15
Not illegal. 03:51:17
Or is it ethical we should be at the highest level of we want to be the best and if someone asks us for the Ledger we just turn it 03:51:19
over? 03:51:23
For free. 03:51:27
And that we just want it to be available. 03:51:28
And any asset that's over $1000, we're going to bring it before in a report every single month and just disclose this is where 03:51:30
we're traveling, this is what we're doing. 03:51:34
I shouldn't have to fight five months later. 03:51:39
I'm waiting for. 03:51:41
A Fuel report. 03:51:43
I just want to say. 03:51:54
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 03:51:56
I want on behalf of. 03:51:59
Vineyard Cares sponsor to the drug take back. It was very successful and I want to personally, publicly. 03:52:01
Thank concerned citizens and members of the Coalition. 03:52:09
And law enforcement and all those others, It was the best that we've had in the last three years and we've only sponsored it for 03:52:14
three years. 03:52:19
Last thing I want to say is. 03:52:24
Democracy is messy. 03:52:26
This is proof. 03:52:29
But things happen. 03:52:31
When things get messy. 03:52:33
Very often. 03:52:35
Thank you. All right. 03:52:38
I'm going to close the public comments. They're done. 03:52:40
Then I'm going to address some of them. 03:52:43
That I'm going to open up. 03:52:45
Reports at which time you can respond to what just occurred. 03:52:47
OK, Yeah. 03:52:52
Terry, I wanted to address a few of the things that you mentioned. You mentioned that we brought in a $35 million bond and that it 03:52:55
could have been half. And why did we do this? It was very confusing. 03:53:01
I try to make commentary on that tonight that we were talking about bond parameters. 03:53:08
And bond parameters are different than. 03:53:14
The building. 03:53:17
And not only the building, you mentioned 4 floors. 03:53:18
And we talked about tonight how we have different partners on different floors. 03:53:23
And uh. 03:53:29
The different uses for the different floors, we talked about how we have Mount Land Association of Governments is one of them. 03:53:30
Karen brought up the MOU at some point. 03:53:35
And we, we talked about in February how these partners had already approved those funds. I know that you know, because I received 03:53:41
an e-mail, Terry, that you had emailed. 03:53:46
Mountain Land Association of Government. So I recognize and I want to acknowledge there that we do know that those things have 03:53:51
been approved in their public documents. They're more than MO use. 03:53:56
And you can go look the map and we can talk about it. But I, I want to acknowledge it as we talk about this. 03:54:04
And let's see, you talked about how the cost could go up. Why didn't we start saving? We did talk a little bit about this and I 03:54:11
want to address it for the public as a whole. 03:54:16
Each year we have to spend our financing on something very important. 03:54:21
One of the reasons why we are in all of the facilities that we're in. 03:54:26
And we are sharing offices. 03:54:30
And we are doing the things that we're doing to manage our finances is so we could put those finances towards other things that we 03:54:32
were saving towards knowing that we had to take care of our fire station, our water tank facilities, different things that happen 03:54:39
in a community that allow us to grow. 03:54:46
And one of the things that's happening now that we're saying, OK, we've waited long enough. 03:54:53
And in two years, it will be much, much too long. 03:54:58
We are financing now and saying new thing on the priority list that has to come first. 03:55:02
So. 03:55:09
We can have all of the other amazing things that could happen with sales tax. 03:55:10
You have to have the employees to do those things, and we need space for them. They're out of space. So that is what we're doing. 03:55:15
We're prioritizing the space to have police officers and essential civic services here so that we can have the other things. 03:55:22
They weren't all tax revenue bonds. 03:55:31
They were franchise bonds and sales tax revenue funds. So the question is why were we showing them? 03:55:33
That's the real question, the question that was on the table at that time. 03:55:38
Was for the comment was. 03:55:43
Cities don't use sales tax revenue bonds the best. 03:55:45
And so we had LRV generate a list. 03:55:49
Of where cities use sales tax revenue bonds and franchise bonds so that you could see. 03:55:53
That this is a normal way of doing it? 03:55:59
Who's doing it differently? How are they financing it? With what extra additional dollars? It was just so a common use practice 03:56:03
and I think it's important to bring it back to that. 03:56:08
Still don't have plans? 03:56:14
We have been planning. We just talked about the CMG, the CNGC part of that planning. 03:56:16
And we talked about the real numbers that can be taken from. 03:56:23
The comparables, we went through those numbers and maybe we can put something that's more concise that people can read back 03:56:27
through at the end of this. 03:56:30
You talked about a ladder truck. We are a multi city service area, so our ladder truck might not be housed here, but it's housed. 03:56:35
In our cooperative. 03:56:43
And we are building in order to have our people. 03:56:45
Closer to home, so that our timing can serve the people that we need. 03:56:51
And when we need a ladder truck? 03:56:55
Or when we need places to house it, we will build those facilities as we're required or we will bring them from other areas. But 03:56:57
we do have what we need, so. 03:57:02
I think it would be prudent to go and sit with some of our staff and learn about what is all what are multi city. 03:57:07
Cooperation does and how we're served and why we think it's a really good plan. 03:57:13
Let's see, I just don't want to forget some of the things. 03:57:19
Still don't have plans? Oh, you were under the impression that we gave them the ability to go sell the bombs. We approved the 03:57:23
resolute resolution. 03:57:27
Everybody commented on that. 03:57:31
And then? 03:57:33
A vote was put into the resolution. 03:57:34
That said, before they saw the. 03:57:37
They will come back here and administratively get an up or down vote. 03:57:40
So you can't actually move forward and sell the bonds. 03:57:44
Until that has occurred, and we added that in, that was a stipulation that came from this discussion and Marty brought up that she 03:57:49
wanted to see something and we all together came up with a plan to be able to do that. 03:57:54
Daria, thank you for all of your comments. There was something on it that I wanted to address. 03:58:01
Umm, I will go ahead and. 03:58:09
Oh, the shoreline, You had a question about the shoreline. I think it would be good to go ahead and connect with Eric and he can 03:58:11
give you updates on the shoreline and. 03:58:15
Actor. That's good. 03:58:20
I mean, you could, you could go ahead and do it right now if you want to, just briefly, yeah. 03:58:22
So the status of the Shoreline project. 03:58:27
Is that we just barely got a. 03:58:30
A response back and forth through fire and state lands. We submitted the toe of slope. 03:58:32
Line meander line. 03:58:37
About six weeks ago and they are still reviewing it. 03:58:39
So I guess what Eric is really saying is we have submitted plans, we are ready to go. The permitting process is along with FSL, 03:58:44
but together we are going in there and we are very aggressive with saying, hey, let's go, our people are ready, we're ready. So on 03:58:49
our side. 03:58:54
Every all of the check boxes are crossed out and checked in all the things. And I would also add that we got an extension of 18 03:59:00
months or so on. 03:59:04
The duration of that, yeah. So don't worry about that. But we are trying if you want to, maybe we'll join our little group and we 03:59:09
can all go and talk about permitting at the state. 03:59:14
All right, let's see cash financing on the 5th, 25th. 03:59:19
Again, I think. 03:59:24
We've had all of these points. 03:59:26
There, yes. You want Holden to respond to the question about EU turns we have a solution for that, that he could. Yeah, go ahead. 03:59:28
Hold in while I read through this. 03:59:32
No, we just had the famous team went out with I know U-turn sign there. 03:59:37
So that's there. I actually sat there for a little bit before this meeting and made your traffic stops. People are still ignoring 03:59:41
it, but we'll start enforcing that. 03:59:45
Umm. 03:59:48
Yeah, especially while school kids are out. 03:59:52
And then the scene, one of the guys that stopped said, well, Google's telling me to go this way, so they seem to see if he can 03:59:55
work on gate. 03:59:57
Google updated and not tell them to make AU turn there, so we'll keep enforcing it and work OK. Thank you Eric for catching that 04:00:00
one. I didn't even have that on my list. 04:00:05
Karen, I will have Eric and you connect and he can show you where that is. 04:00:11
Of the public documents that you were wondering about an MO UI want you to see where it was voted in. 04:00:16
Let's see. 04:00:22
I think I answered all of your other questions when I was talking to Terry. 04:00:24
And then addressing Terry's concerns, I mean. 04:00:28
And then umm. 04:00:32
What I'm going to do? 04:00:35
Is I'm going to make a statement about in response to Citizen Jake. 04:00:37
And then you guys can make your comments. 04:00:43
Let's see. 04:00:46
From my perspective. 04:00:48
And we all have our different experiences, but from each meeting that I have sat in with you. 04:00:50
And. 04:00:56
Every conversation that we've had publicly. 04:00:57
Every time that you have asked for the letter, you have received it. 04:01:00
When you ask for the vendor to list, you received it. 04:01:04
You have. 04:01:07
Been with a team that has worked in good faith to give you everything that you need. 04:01:09
And the last conversation that we had. 04:01:14
We talked about how we wanted to go to the auditor and hear all of your concerns and we had a meeting with the auditor. 04:01:17
To make sure that we could. 04:01:24
So knew how we've been acting and we as a whole. 04:01:27
The staff definitely have been working at this. 04:01:30
Because they're the people that you're talking about. But. 04:01:35
As a council, I think we've been stating every meeting we want you to have what you need. 04:01:38
And anybody that disagrees with me can speak up when it's your turn. 04:01:44
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All right, we're going to go ahead and get the Vineyard City Council meeting started. It's April 30th, 2025 and the time is 6:38 00:00:06
PM. 00:00:10
We're going to start with our GFOA Award presentation by our Finance Director, Christy Bayless. 00:00:16
And we're excited to hear from you. 00:00:24
OK, now we're tripped out. Thank you. 00:00:30
Mayor and council, it is my pleasure. 00:00:35
To let you know that we have once again received the Distinguished Budget Award from the Government Finance Finance Officers 00:00:38
Association. If you look up behind you, there is a plaque that's missing right there. And that's because I took it down to put our 00:00:44
new annual thing on. So this is the seventh year in a row. 00:00:49
That vineyard has gotten a Distinguished Budget Presentation award. 00:00:56
We give a whole budget book to them and they review it. 00:01:00
There are certain things that have to be in it that are mandatory and they have reviewers go through it, give you suggestions on 00:01:03
how to make it better and if you need your requirement to get the award. And I want to especially think Zach Adams, our treasurer. 00:01:09
And Maria Ortega, our utility billing clerk, because they were the ones that put so much work into that. So I present this to you, 00:01:15
Mayor, so that you can put it back up on the wall. 00:01:20
Thank you. 00:01:25
Christie, Christie. 00:01:28
Bring your team up and let's get a picture with this. 00:01:31
Let's go, Maria. 00:01:35
I know. 00:01:43
Should we move it? Yeah. 00:02:00
All right. 00:02:36
We also have a series of proclamations that I have made. 00:02:37
They are the 56th annual Municipal Clerk's Week, 5 month Building Safety Month, National Drinking Water Week and the National 00:02:41
Public Works Week. 00:02:46
And you can read about those, they will be posted. 00:02:52
Up on our board upstairs. 00:02:55
Next we have a downtown update and Pete Evans with Black Borough will give an update, so come on up. 00:02:58
Excited to hear from you. 00:03:05
Oh. 00:03:14
Oh, you don't have to tell me that stuff. 00:03:18
And now we won't download a virus onto my computer when I plug it in. 00:03:22
What does that say? 00:03:34
No, nothing. 00:03:38
Yeah. While while we're waiting for that to load up, thank you for having us come in, letting us come in. 00:03:42
Tonight give you. 00:03:47
Give you an update. I'm Pete Evans. 00:03:49
With Flagborough and Nate Hutchinson is also here. 00:03:52
Who will be speaking as well? 00:03:55
What we thought we'd do is just give you an update. Oh, perfect. Thanks, Kash. 00:03:58
Give you a progress update on. 00:04:06
Kind of where we are right now on the plask, the planning process. 00:04:09
Our roadway and infrastructure. 00:04:13
And our vertical development. 00:04:15
So right now we've submitted several plaques as we subdivide. 00:04:17
The property. 00:04:22
The road dedication plat dedicated the road up to the. 00:04:23
Frontrunner Station. 00:04:27
Our phase two plant is what you see in magenta there. 00:04:28
Mostly. And then phase 5 is. 00:04:34
Where we split up block 4, which is a little confusing because. 00:04:36
Block 4 split up by. 00:04:39
Plat 5 but. 00:04:41
There's no correlation between the plat numbers and the block numbers. 00:04:42
Our Plat 3 is kind of as you move N including the green line. 00:04:47
The two sections of the Green line. 00:04:51
And then? 00:04:53
Phase 4 Plat. 00:04:54
Is the developments and roads as we get. 00:04:56
Closer to the Huntsman cancer site. 00:04:59
Along Essex St. which is 1200 N. 00:05:02
So these are kind of the timing of our what we're anticipating on St. improvements and. 00:05:07
Infrastructure plans. 00:05:13
So phase. 00:05:14
One we had our first lift. 00:05:16
Asphalt. March, April. 00:05:19
All the way around there, Phase 2. 00:05:22
Umm, same. And then phase 2B. 00:05:25
Was the streets around blocks? 00:05:30
Got us to blocks 5 and 6 and through block 4. 00:05:33
And around the center area of the Green Line. 00:05:37
Then as we go north. 00:05:40
We've got additional paving that will happen up 3rd Ave. 00:05:43
And up 2nd Ave. 00:05:46
Our goal is to be able to have that construction entrance. 00:05:49
For Huntsman Cancer on Essex St. or 1200 N. 00:05:53
Paved by September. 00:05:57
Which will really allow us to do 2 things. It will allow us to have. 00:05:58
Them have great construction access for their site as they. 00:06:02
Their underground work. 00:06:06
They'll also allow us to better separate. 00:06:07
Construction and residential traffic. 00:06:10
As we have people start moving into blocks 5:00 and 6:00. 00:06:12
So these are some of the some pictures from. 00:06:18
Around the community, just so you can see where we are vertical development wise, so that star is. 00:06:21
Right on kind of that northeast corner of Block 5. 00:06:27
Block 5 is actually made-up of five separate buildings. 00:06:30
And you'll see as we go through the pictures. 00:06:33
But right on the green line there. 00:06:36
So that's that corner looking back from the green line, kind of. 00:06:38
Southeast. 00:06:43
Yeah, please. 00:06:47
I think too, one of the things that you'll hopefully notice is Utah City develops out. 00:06:48
Is we've spent an enormous amount of money in elevations and materiality. 00:06:53
So that the project is different than what you would see in a typical. 00:06:59
In a typical Utah project. So I think hopefully this is just the start of obviously what we're doing. There's a lot more to come. 00:07:03
But hopefully this illustrates the intention, intentionality of what we're trying to do here. That's different, that's unique. It 00:07:11
has a very long term vision. It's not. 00:07:16
You know, build something quickly and sell it and then move on to the next thing. We are Utah County residents. We love living 00:07:21
here. We've developed in the city now for over 10 years. 00:07:27
We care about the city and plan on being here for a really long time and I just hope. 00:07:33
As we go through some of this that you see. 00:07:38
We may all disagree on what we're doing or what we, you know, whether you like what we're doing or not, but at least hopefully you 00:07:41
will not question whether or not we're really spending a lot of time in being meticulous and intentional about what we're trying 00:07:46
to create. I think that's important as we go through this. 00:07:52
From the green line, the playground, everything is very, very top notch. It's not just like what's the cheapest thing we can build 00:07:57
and get out of here, It's a very long term vision here that we have and think we can create something very special together. 00:08:03
So that also goes into, you know, we worked. 00:08:11
For a long time on. 00:08:15
These paseos and courtyards that go throughout the community. 00:08:16
So as you come down and you weave through. 00:08:20
Block 5 and you're in between these two buildings. 00:08:22
As you walk through this area and it connects these different courtyards. 00:08:25
They're inside of the community. 00:08:29
You can kind of see, you know, you look at it from a plan view on paper. 00:08:31
You know, like, Oh yeah, that'll be. 00:08:35
More interesting than not having that there. 00:08:37
You walk through it right now and you're like, wow, this is going to be amazing. 00:08:40
Like this is this is going to be a really, really cool. 00:08:44
Environment for people to live in. 00:08:47
So in these courtyards we have. 00:08:49
Different courtyards are programmed. 00:08:52
With different elements, this is a playground structure. 00:08:54
That's going into one of the courtyards. A different courtyard has. 00:08:57
A pizza oven and and is more quiet and kind of more. 00:09:00
You know, less kid oriented. 00:09:05
Another one has. 00:09:07
You know, like Wiffle ball. 00:09:10
And things like that in it. And so all of them are programmed differently and they're all connected by this series of. 00:09:12
Pedestrian Paseos that interconnect them. 00:09:18
This is block 6. 00:09:22
Again, this view is kind of looking from the South to the north. 00:09:23
But you can see this similarly. There's two big courtyards in between. 00:09:29
Those two buildings and again. 00:09:34
You know, as you look at these buildings in the way that they were designed, the first floor. 00:09:36
Doesn't have interior loaded corridors. They all enter and exit out onto the public area. 00:09:41
So you're creating this really social. 00:09:46
Really walkable condition with the buildings themselves and with. 00:09:49
The way that the buildings are laid out and connected together. 00:09:53
This is blocks 8 and 14. 00:09:57
Just north of the Green Line. 00:10:00
So you can see that building is framing up to the north, the one to the South. 00:10:03
They're pouring footings on. 00:10:07
You can see the large kind of commercial space. 00:10:09
On the first floor of this. 00:10:12
Building on that corner, there will be. 00:10:14
An identical one on this corner. 00:10:16
That will be across the street from each other. 00:10:18
You know those will eventually be. 00:10:21
Retail areas that we hope will be. 00:10:25
Breakfast shops or donut shops or. 00:10:28
I guess no one eats Donuts anymore, but. 00:10:30
I still eat Donuts. 00:10:33
Yeah. 00:10:35
Yeah, so. 00:10:37
They'll probably be programmed with some fitness and. 00:10:39
Things like that, it'll be more immediately available. 00:10:42
But it's built to be able to convert to. 00:10:45
Retail in the future? 00:10:48
This is block 4 where we've. 00:10:50
Started the grocery store. 00:10:52
Development. So this is this is. 00:10:55
Been a really interesting process for us to go through, but. 00:10:57
We're really, really excited about. 00:11:01
The grocery store and how that's turning out. 00:11:03
Umm, if you've been over here at all, you've. 00:11:06
Probably noticed at this grocery store is. 00:11:09
Building out in. 00:11:12
Record time. 00:11:13
What's that? 00:11:15
You talk about construction, hit the pretty picture. Yeah, Yeah. Surprise. 00:11:17
Another you know, I think this also hopefully one of the things we've heard loud and clear from this community for a lot of years. 00:11:23
Was the need for a grocery store. The grocery store we're building, we didn't feel like existed in our market, so we went and 00:11:30
found Lee's. 00:11:34
Who? Umm, uh. 00:11:38
Is an associated foods partner, as many of you know. 00:11:40
The thought process behind that was to make sure that we could bring. 00:11:43
Prices to where we wouldn't price people out of the market by building what we believe will be the nicest grocery store in the 00:11:47
state. 00:11:51
This grocery store is not built. 00:11:55
From an aesthetic standpoint to get returns from a real estate perspective, this is very, very overbuilt and the only way you'll 00:11:58
and how you'll know that is. 00:12:02
Go drive around and look at every other grocery store in the Utah market and compare it to this. It is very, very unique. 00:12:07
And we're excited to do this. And the reason behind this was because. 00:12:13
We felt like this is what the community had been asking for for a very, very long time and wanted to put this kind of in the heart 00:12:17
of the community as soon as possible so. 00:12:21
Oh, so yeah, you. And if you ever watched the video, that little excerpt video that we made, we partnered. 00:12:28
With Sean Feeney from New York. 00:12:36
He has one of the top two or three pizzerias in the world in New York. 00:12:39
And he will be bringing his first location out of New York. 00:12:43
Right there on the corner there, Feeny Pizza and a cafe shop next door to that and we plan on hopefully opening that as soon as 00:12:47
the grocery store opens. So we're in the middle of. 00:12:52
Interior design work with him. 00:12:57
He's been asked by developers all around the country to go. 00:12:59
He's a very close member of a member of our team. 00:13:02
A close friend of a member of our team and so he's willing to lean in here and will hopefully help us with other culinary. 00:13:05
Culinary concepts that we can bring. The goal of this is to, you know, Utah County is in need of some medium to higher tier 00:13:11
restaurants. But what we want to make sure is we're not just pricing everyone out of the market and having really expensive steak 00:13:17
houses in here. Ideally we'll have one or two of those over time. 00:13:23
But it's to bring. 00:13:29
Good culinary concepts here that we don't have that you can find maybe a lot of other places in Utah. That's kind of the culinary 00:13:30
thought process that we have. 00:13:35
Bringing things down to it. 00:13:40
There's construction, as Pete mentioned, it's we're going gangbusters. We're shooting as hard as we can to have this open by 00:13:45
November 1st. 00:13:48
The TI plans are into the city. We've gotten comments back. 00:13:52
There's a little bit, they're already rolling the roof. 00:13:56
So this is well, well underway. 00:13:59
Here's some concepts of the inside. 00:14:03
These have been updated a little bit in the plans that have been turned into the city, but that's kind of the aesthetic that we're 00:14:05
going for. 00:14:09
Umm, so it should be a unique aspect of. 00:14:13
You know the interior there. 00:14:20
The green light on. 00:14:23
Keep going. 00:14:24
Right. Thought you'd never ask. 00:14:26
So the green line here we got blocks five and six of the green line were the number 9 is. 00:14:29
Umm, this is well underway. 00:14:35
Here's the concept rendering of this. This isn't just like what it hopes to be, this is actual. 00:14:38
Renderings of the construction drawings. 00:14:44
So as some of you have probably seen. 00:14:47
That pavilion is being installed. That grass is there. Here's an actual picture of where it is today. 00:14:50
This play structure. 00:14:56
That you can see right there, is maybe the thing I'm most excited about in all of. 00:14:59
We asked Bronson and. 00:15:04
He kept bringing here's a play concept, here's a play concept and was like, yeah, we want something very iconic that kids would 00:15:07
love that would terminate the Green Line. 00:15:11
And he found this. 00:15:15
It's about 40 feet tall. It's incredibly beautiful and kids are going to love this. And that's probably the thing I'm currently 00:15:17
most excited about and that delivers like. 00:15:22
July. June. 00:15:27
So that will terminate kind of you see to the top, middle of that picture there. 00:15:29
There will be a children's play area and then that iconic balloon looking structure will be right there in the middle. 00:15:34
Umm. Here's the pavilion. 00:15:41
Put some cladding on that here soon. Oops. 00:15:43
Oh boy. 00:15:50
Yeah, sorry. 00:15:55
Easy. 00:15:58
So play structure there for the children. This is the middle green line concept. 00:16:01
This is also under construction this. 00:16:07
Is shooting to be completed in about August. Everything but the structures there in the middle, as you remember we had talked 00:16:10
about? 00:16:13
Like a farm to table type restaurant concept there in the middle that's more permanent obviously. 00:16:16
We can't make any profit off that restaurant. Any money that would come in from any of the leases that that come into the Green 00:16:25
Line just go to operate the Green Line and help pay for maintenance of the Green Line. 00:16:30
So, uh. 00:16:35
Then we're working on some potential, maybe temporary pop up shops that go around that of national retailers that could come in 00:16:36
and trade out concepts frequently. This would just be temporary in nature. 00:16:41
Have some local. 00:16:46
Umm, different users and some of these as well. So get a nice flavor of bringing mixing kind of local, regional and national. 00:16:49
Tendency into that and then you have the two spaces on the side for gathering for like movies in the park. 00:16:57
Jackie, our Marketing Director is Some of you have met Jackie at some of the different events. 00:17:03
She will be programming a lot of this kind of constantly. So we'll be having yoga in the park, movies in the park, in the Green 00:17:08
Line, you know, all these different things that will be able to bring people down and be able to participate kind of as a 00:17:14
community in some of these spaces. So that's kind of the work that's being done there now. It's as you can tell, it's very active 00:17:19
and going. 00:17:24
We're excited about that. Wish it was. 00:17:29
Done sooner, but. 00:17:32
Can't win them all. 00:17:34
Umm, And then this is the update on the kind of recreation facility slash Wellness pool facility that we talked about a couple of 00:17:37
years ago. 00:17:43
We're hoping to start construction. This is the site plan. We're working on this now. 00:17:48
You've got the kids play pool area here. 00:17:53
The splash pad here. This is very similar to the one you saw a couple of years ago. 00:17:56
And then these, this will be a quiet pool that's elevated, more membership, maybe more annual memberships that go along with this 00:18:00
building. 00:18:04
Umm, as you remember from the lease from a couple of years ago. 00:18:09
And then this is more of the. 00:18:12
Kind of adult pool, but. 00:18:14
Maybe monthly memberships and that ties into the kids pool there will be. 00:18:17
Lifeguards here. 00:18:21
Concessions building here and once again. 00:18:23
This is run as a nonprofit for. 00:18:25
For Utah City and Vineyard residents, so not looking to make any money off of this, just as an amenity for people who want to use 00:18:29
it. 00:18:32
As you'll remember from a couple of years ago, many other cities. 00:18:35
Bond and tax everybody to build structures like this. 00:18:39
But this provided a really unique opportunity for Vineyard residents because this is something they can opt into if they want to. 00:18:43
But they don't have to pay for it if they don't. 00:18:49
Working currently right now, I think we're in for a site plan on this. This is a kind of a racquet club. This is. 00:18:54
Change maybe a little bit. There's a few less pickleball courts. We decided to add a few more Fidel courts as you can see here. 00:19:01
And you're familiar with Fidel? That's kind of a sport that's. 00:19:07
Taking off across the country. 00:19:10
Very similar to pickleball, but a little bit different and so this concept. 00:19:12
Way too many pickleball courts as you can see here, and not as many pedals, so that mix will change a little bit. This will be 00:19:17
temporary until we build on this in the future, so maybe 5 to 10 years, but at least start to provide some activation. 00:19:23
Also, this borders the green line. 00:19:29
So provide some activities for current Vineyard residents to come up and participate in, or people that live downtown as well. 00:19:31
This is a basketball court that will. 00:19:38
That we're working with Sean Feeney and the Feeney Pizza concept on right here to activate and bring BYU and Jazz players and many 00:19:41
other players from across the country to do more activations and then have, you know, Vineyard. 00:19:47
Umm, basketball tournaments, et cetera, from people that want to come up and participate in that. 00:19:54
So that's kind of everything that's currently. 00:20:00
Under design and under construction. 00:20:04
We're working with some architects to decide on who what architects to choose for blocks one and seven here. 00:20:07
That border this border the train Plaza. 00:20:14
And that will have much more retail if you'll remember from the code it's required to have. 00:20:18
Main floor retail and that whole area there. 00:20:23
Just for reference sake, from the train station to the end of the square about here. 00:20:26
Is a distance of about Cheesecake Factory to Nordstrom. 00:20:31
City Creek. 00:20:35
So when you look at this concept, you know, that just kind of gives you an idea of how much retail we're actually talking there. 00:20:36
So we're working with some mark, some national architecture firms and local firms to start planning this. It would have about 150 00:20:42
to 170,000 feet of retail on the main level. 00:20:48
With some housing concepts on top. 00:20:54
There's been a lot of questions from the community on this. All going to be for rent. 00:20:56
The answer to that is no, it is not for sure going to be all for rent. 00:21:00
Our philosophy is, though, most of these projects you're seeing we're starting now are for rent, and the thought process behind 00:21:05
that is. 00:21:09
As we deliver the Green Line, as we deliver Huntsman Cancer, as we deliver. 00:21:12
The retail and create the sense of place and experience that at that point probably it makes more sense to bring in some of the 00:21:19
for sale housing alongside all of that. So the next few years there will be lots and lots of for sale housing. 00:21:24
It will be kind of scattered throughout the community and really thoughtful and how it works with parking and everything else. 00:21:31
And will be managed. The parking will be similarly managed to the residential. 00:21:37
The rental residential to. 00:21:42
To ensure that. 00:21:44
There's ample parking and it's enforced, I think some of the challenges that the city's had in the past on parking. To this point, 00:21:46
I'm just a bystander in this. 00:21:50
But the. 00:21:54
It's not being enforced appropriately and a lot of those different communities and that's when you rent a unit, A2 bedroom unit to 00:21:58
four or five college students, it gets a little challenging to provide ample partners. So the way to handle that is to have the 00:22:03
HOA is properly enforce those and some of those. 00:22:08
Hos, but I don't know why I'm bringing this up right now. I probably should stay clear of that. 00:22:14
And then Huntsman cancer is. 00:22:20
Is up there to the north. They plan on delivering. They were planning on delivering first quarter of 2029. They're feeling like 00:22:24
that schedule is pulling forward maybe to the third, second or third quarter of 2028. 00:22:30
So that's a lot of high paying jobs and as Pete mentioned before, we're working really hard to get all the infrastructure ready 00:22:37
for them and then we're talking with. 00:22:41
State and national tenants. 00:22:47
On adjacency for them to bring in other larger employers into the area. 00:22:49
So we think that'll be a boon for everybody and I think. 00:22:55
One of the things I think all of us can agree on. 00:22:59
Is continuing to work with the state. 00:23:02
To make sure that our. 00:23:04
Our major thoroughfares are widened appropriately and built. I think we can all agree that getting people in and out of the city 00:23:06
is a huge concern. 00:23:10
And I think there's been talks about, you know, Vineyard leapfrogging some of these other cities and not waiting our our. 00:23:14
Line, our turn in line. I think the response to that from from our perspective would be a lot of these cities, because Geneva 00:23:21
Steel was here, we're able to get hundreds of millions of dollars of state infrastructure for the last 50 years. And actually 00:23:26
Vineyard has been leapfrogged by a lot of them for a very long time. And now we're kind of stuck with a couple insurance and outs 00:23:31
of the city. 00:23:37
And so I think it's. 00:23:43
All of us should hopefully be able to work together and trying to alleviate some of that stress and we appreciate all of you that 00:23:44
are kind of digging into that and trying to help there, but there's ever meetings with state or. 00:23:49
Or county or regional officials on that. And you feel like the developer could be helpful in any of those meetings? We're happy 00:23:55
to. 00:23:58
To dig in with any of the citizens that are here as well, to work on that together, because we think that is probably. 00:24:01
Should be the number one focus of all of us kind of all the time that we're all beating, beating that drum that we get the 00:24:07
infrastructure necessary to make everything work for everybody. So. 00:24:12
That's great, Council. Do you have any questions? 00:24:18
Will you go back to? 00:24:25
Let's see one of the first sides of the building that's. 00:24:28
Cluster completion. 00:24:32
Yeah, yeah, that works. 00:24:38
So you were saying that when people exit their homes, they're coming out the front door. Is that? 00:24:41
So where do they like just religious sex? I'm just curious, is there a parking structure inside of there somewhere or they park on 00:24:47
the street or? Yeah. So, so all of the all of the black that you see here is parking, surface parking for now and then it will go 00:24:53
into structure. So in the future there'll be a parking structure here on 6B. 00:24:59
There'll be a parking structure here on 5F. 00:25:05
And and these people can go into this courtyard here and access their units. 00:25:08
OK. 00:25:13
Good question. 00:25:16
Thank you. 00:25:17
Any other questions? 00:25:21
This looks incredible. We're really excited. These projects are exciting and I think our residents will be really happy to know 00:25:24
that that park is moving along. It was really neat to be with you guys the other day and see all the trees that are going in and. 00:25:31
Just to know that. 00:25:38
That big hot air balloon looking structures command, Kids will love that. It's incredible. Well, and I really appreciated the 00:25:39
detail in the exterior. 00:25:44
They're really pretty like it looks really, really nice. So the detail you guys have paid it's it's yeah, I was really impressed. 00:25:49
Thank you. We're trying and we think blocks five and six are probably the we're learning as we go as well. So hopefully it gets 00:25:55
better as we go. But thank you yeah. And thank you so much for working with our other partners like UTA and donating parking and 00:26:01
helping them work together to create more parking that's. 00:26:07
Really big for our community. We appreciate that. Just being really thoughtful about parking in general. So another thing I wanted 00:26:13
to mention, we're currently working with the Church of Jesus Christ on some multiple church sites in here. 00:26:20
That would be more vertical and urban in nature than what you see historically in Utah too, so there's some exciting things on 00:26:27
that front. Nothing to announce yet. 00:26:31
And not the special projects department yet, but. 00:26:36
Do you want to maybe talk about, I know a lot of people have questions about schools in the area because we are going to need 00:26:39
another elementary school and Vineyard too. Yeah, good question. So and all the projects we've done in the past, like when we 00:26:45
developed Waters Edge, there was no necessarily school sites planned for that. We worked with the charter school and the Alpine 00:26:51
School District and made sure there was perfect schools obviously. 00:26:57
Worst case scenario for developers to build a project that doesn't have schools. It's not good for property values and we also 00:27:03
care about children at the same time as. 00:27:07
Umm, as we did the little Shark Tank thing here with the other school, which is which is fun. 00:27:11
But yes, there will be school, you know, we'll work with them for appropriate land that they need for schools. Once again, what 00:27:17
we're trying to talk to some of these groups about is to integrate it into a mixed-use environment so that you don't go and take 00:27:22
Block 7 and make that a typical elementary school with all the fields, but that we're working together and maybe it's up by Geneva 00:27:27
Park, for example, where we're able to share the fields during the day. 00:27:33
And so they're not having to buy as much ground and maybe go a little bit more vertical than they typically would. 00:27:38
Uh, but they're able to share the park space with the city and everybody else, so. 00:27:44
Could you also go into a little more detail about this swimming pool? 00:27:48
About how like, it's a public pool. 00:27:52
When you say memberships, it's like, is it kind of like what you see with the Sarah pool or people can buy their punch passes? 00:27:54
Yeah, yeah, So good question. So in our in our lease, if you'll remember it was it was. 00:28:01
The charge will have to be similar to the cost that are born in other municipalities, so we're still working through the cost 00:28:08
structure of. 00:28:11
Are they monthly memberships? Are they annual memberships? How exactly do they work? But yes, it will be. 00:28:16
It will be similar for the people that live, that live here downtown, for the residents if they would like to buy a membership as 00:28:21
well. So we haven't finalized that yet. We've just been really focused on let's get the design going because it's going to take 00:28:25
probably 16 to 18 months to build. 00:28:30
We're hoping to deliver at least, so let me go back. 00:28:35
Phase one of the pools. 00:28:39
I feel bad I just took this right over from Pete and he was doing so well and now I'm just off on a tangent. 00:28:42
Umm, phase one are the pools, the concessions building in this restroom building. 00:28:50
And splash pad and the hope is just to have that done by Memorial Day of 2026, so a year from now. 00:28:56
Within this building here following. 00:29:02
Thereafter, so working really hard on that. 00:29:06
It's just been working with the county on the. 00:29:09
On the health department and making sure all of that's done and the decking is sized appropriately for restrooms and all these 00:29:12
little nuances is what we've really been focused on. And then? 00:29:17
We'll turn the focus to kind of how that program works, so. 00:29:22
That's nothing. Thank you. It's really great. 00:29:26
All right. Well, is there another question? 00:29:30
Just thank you guys for coming and giving us an update and presenting. 00:29:33
Appreciate it. Thank you. 00:29:37
Thanks for having us. Sorry. 00:29:39
Next, we're going to hear about our Memorial Benson Tree Program and Brian Badri, our Parks and Rec director, will present. 00:29:42
Good evening, I cannot wait for Padel. 00:29:57
And uh. 00:30:01
I challenge Bronson. 00:30:03
No, I have not. 00:30:07
But I highly recommend everyone here. 00:30:10
If you have not already watched a video of Fidel, you should totally look it up. It is unreal. It's it's legit. 00:30:12
So that'll be super fun. 00:30:19
OK. 00:30:26
See if this will come up. 00:30:30
Maybe not. 00:30:39
Here we go. 00:30:46
OK. 00:30:49
So. 00:30:55
Just really quick. 00:30:57
To go through this memorial bench and tree program, this is something I got an idea from. 00:30:59
Salem City, They've had a really. 00:31:04
A successful journey on this of just allowing for residents to honor a loved one. 00:31:07
In a park by. 00:31:13
Donating a bench. 00:31:14
And so I decided to look more into this in the past several conversations with staff. 00:31:16
But essentially the goal. 00:31:23
Of this whole project. 00:31:25
Is just to provide that opportunity for the community to recognize a loved 1 to enhance the beautification of. 00:31:28
Vineyard city parks and trails. 00:31:34
And then potentially. 00:31:36
Moving forward. 00:31:37
We could potentially reduce this from from general fund costs. 00:31:39
Umm, I want to show you the website. 00:31:45
That we have. 00:31:48
So this is accessible through our Vineyard, UT. 00:31:50
Dot Gov website. 00:31:54
Umm, so we have a few different campaigns right now. We have the skate park fundraiser. 00:31:57
But if you just click on the memorial bench program. 00:32:03
You can go in here and see exactly where locations are that we're seeking to build a bench. 00:32:06
Umm, and so if somebody wants to come in here and donate a bench to Grove Park. 00:32:14
They can click on that. 00:32:22
Hit participate now. 00:32:25
They'll go through the steps. 00:32:28
Let's see, maybe go back. 00:32:29
It's a pretty simple process that's going straight through. 00:32:34
But essentially there's like 7 locations right now that have been approved by Vineyard City staff. 00:32:37
Umm and this bench is provided through Treetop. 00:32:44
It's a company that was referred to me through. 00:32:47
Another city. 00:32:50
They just have. 00:32:52
Really solid bench. 00:32:54
For a good price. 00:32:55
And umm, I was told that the typical price that most cities are charging is about 1500. 00:32:57
For a bench. So that's what we're planning to do for this. 00:33:03
So just to get a little bit more into the nitty gritty on this. 00:33:09
I'm going to do the full screen. 00:33:14
OK, so essentially if someone goes in and purchases a bench, they pay $1500? 00:33:17
And along with that they get a plaque. So it'll have a QR code on the plaque. 00:33:23
Umm, there's about 130 characters worth of space that you can. 00:33:29
Have a message or you can have a name, whatever it is that residents want to put. 00:33:34
Pending approval of Vineyard City staff to make sure that. 00:33:39
Everything is good to go with that. 00:33:43
But it allows community members to go through the park, they sit on the bench or walk by, they can scan the QR code and they can 00:33:46
learn a background about the person that the bench is dedicated to. 00:33:51
Umm. And then in order to make this a smooth transition for staff. 00:34:00
We would install the benches twice a year. 00:34:05
So we'd have two time periods of between April 1st and July 31st. That would be the first phase. 00:34:07
And we would have any benches that were. 00:34:15
Claimed We'll go ahead and order those in August. It's about a two week turn around to get those. 00:34:18
And then September, our public works team will go ahead and install that. 00:34:23
They'll have to pour some concrete. 00:34:29
So we've gone out to verify all of the locations to make sure that there's enough space and that it would correlate well with. 00:34:31
The level of the land and everything. 00:34:37
So that would be the first phase and then the next one we would just do August 1st to March 31st and then all of those would be 00:34:40
installed in May. 00:34:44
Umm, that way we just. 00:34:48
I don't have to interrupt the public works team on all the other jobs that they're busy doing. This just kind of gives them a 00:34:51
dedicated time. 00:34:54
And it also allows us to. 00:34:57
Umm, better stay, you know, within that budget of the $1500 with the cost of the bench and everything. 00:35:01
We also have a survey that will be going out. 00:35:09
This Friday. 00:35:13
For the Vineyard community to provide their feedback if there's additional locations that they specifically want to have a bench 00:35:14
placed. 00:35:18
They can voice that. They can also vote on what locations that are provided by staff they prefer. 00:35:23
Umm, and on that same website. 00:35:30
Residents can go in and they can actually propose a specific location and then it will ping staff. 00:35:34
With the message and we can get right back to them. 00:35:42
This is a quick overview on just the cost, right? So they're all six foot benches. 00:35:45
UMM comes with a plaque. 00:35:50
Umm, concrete pads. 00:35:54
Potential shipping that could vary based off of how many. 00:35:56
You know that we order at a time. 00:36:00
And then to also cover the cost of the software. 00:36:03
So that's a little bit about the bench. As far as the trees, I worked with the city arborist George SRAM. 00:36:08
And he specifically picked this tree for the one location that were. 00:36:15
That we have online. 00:36:20
So within the splash pad area there is a. 00:36:22
A grass hill where there's there used to be a tree. 00:36:25
But they'd like to plant some more there. 00:36:30
And this is the specific tree that George recommended based off of his expertise of. 00:36:32
What he feels would be the best fit for. 00:36:37
For that property. 00:36:40
It would kind of follow the exact same protocol as far as the dates go. 00:36:42
And then with the plaque, we would just have like a stanchion stand. 00:36:47
Just so that. 00:36:52
It'll be easy to see and won't. 00:36:55
Mess with the roots of the trees. 00:36:57
And then that's just a basic. 00:37:01
Financial Overview. 00:37:02
And then again there's the. 00:37:06
Website. 00:37:08
So any questions? 00:37:10
Feel free to e-mail me or I can answer them now. 00:37:12
Council, do you have any questions? 00:37:15
Yeah, I have a couple of questions. 00:37:18
Have one I'm curious I think. I think it was in there. I just want to make sure I understood it correctly with the QR code. 00:37:23
Yeah, that would link to a city hosted. 00:37:29
Page correct? 00:37:33
It would go on to this same website. 00:37:35
So let me. 00:37:38
Go back here. 00:37:40
Listing my legacy you have to see my legacy website. 00:37:42
Yeah. So, so my curiosity on that is? 00:37:46
What's the ongoing? 00:37:50
Cost of maintaining that. 00:37:52
Yeah, the cost is $116.00 a month. 00:37:55
For the for the software and that covers as many. 00:38:00
Comment pages this week. 00:38:05
Exactly. 00:38:07
OK, with the QR code, have like the name of the person also like or do you? Would it only have a character? Yeah, it would also 00:38:09
have the name. 00:38:13
Yeah, they could put up to 130 letters or numbers. 00:38:18
On the plaque. And then there will be a cure. Yeah, cool. 00:38:23
What I love about this is that. 00:38:27
We've had this request for some time and the youth councils been working on this and going out and looking for ways to fund it. 00:38:30
And a couple years ago we even had a big request by residents and we were considering attributing a lot of funding to it, but 00:38:36
really have to be careful as we prioritize and so this opportunity. 00:38:43
Serves all of those different groups that really enables the youth councils project and allows them to be leading out in this. 00:38:49
And answers that request that came in from such a big portion of our community. So you've been really thoughtful about it and 00:38:57
really excited to see. 00:39:01
What we can provide the community while still being fiscally minded. Thank you. 00:39:06
Any other comments or thoughts? Is there any reason why we can't do this without the software and just have you buy it? 00:39:12
I auction off a lot of park benches at public surplus in my day. 00:39:20
I know 1500 is a large price and QR codes are pretty easy. In fact I think we own Qualtrics. It does QR codes already. 00:39:24
So why wouldn't you just create a landing page and justice have the city take the money and not get paid the? 00:39:31
$500 a month or. 00:39:36
150 a month. 00:39:38
Of the software, so you think you could just do it? 00:39:40
So just a few things that really make this. 00:39:43
Software valuable #1 is just the fact that it allows people to kind of highlight the specific person that. 00:39:46
They're dedicating the bench too, right? So they can kind of tell their story. It makes it kind of a heritage type feel. 00:39:53
And then I would also say in response to that, just the fact that. 00:39:59
You can specifically verify the pictures of. 00:40:05
Where exactly that bench is going to be located? 00:40:09
What the environment looks like. 00:40:12
And then it also just allows for an easy way to just have accepting payments right through the the software. But there's free QR 00:40:15
code systems that we could just. 00:40:20
I mean this is pretty easy coding to just do that. 00:40:24
You don't think we could? 00:40:27
Jacob Wood could draft up something like that. It's pretty simple stuff. 00:40:29
I just worry I mean it's only 150 bucks off of but a month but. 00:40:33
Like how many months are you going to go selling a bench and. 00:40:37
You know, that's my issue is the software side, the whole idea that the park benches, the QR code, the idea and even putting a 00:40:41
landing page. 00:40:45
On our website, probably should be able to. 00:40:51
Have direct them. 00:40:53
To a URL off of a QR code. 00:40:55
So that's my issue. It's just the software side of things. I like what you're saying, Jake. I, I wonder, I want to explore that 00:40:58
just for a second. 00:41:01
And this was already paid for as a solution to creative solution to address the big ask that we had as a community, right and you. 00:41:06
Took it down from a lot to this very small $1500. What you're doing today is announcing this campaign. 00:41:16
That is part of the see my legacy, right? Yeah. 00:41:24
When does that you said it? 00:41:27
Renews monthly. 00:41:29
It's a yearly thing. It's a yearly thing. So I wonder if Jake, if you could get together with Brian and maybe come up with a plan 00:41:32
for next year and see. 00:41:37
If there's an opportunity to explore your idea and replace this idea. 00:41:43
And see which one actually works out. I think that would be good because today is just a campaign. But maybe if there's a way to 00:41:50
do it ourselves and it's cheaper and still gives us that benefit in the future, that would be incredible. Yeah. Sounds great. OK, 00:41:55
great. 00:42:00
So today then, we're just moving to adopt. 00:42:08
The most, I mean, the campaign is that right? There's no motion. I see a little move to adopt. I'm gonna scratch it out. 00:42:11
All right. Well, that's wonderful. Brian, you were already up here and I noticed that you had another one on the. 00:42:18
On the list, did you want to rotate and take turns? Because we're giving time for Jason. 00:42:25
Yeah. 00:42:31
Come on up, Jason. 00:42:33
I don't know if you guys remember the riveting. 00:42:37
PowerPoint by Dan Miller. 00:42:41
It was over mosquito abatement. 00:42:43
Last, was it in fall that he came and gave us that? I believe so, yeah. Who's trying to rotate? I mean, we try to do it in the 00:42:45
fall, in the spring. 00:42:49
But Jason is taking his place because he retired just this week. 00:42:53
It's crazy. Well, at home we. 00:42:58
Love him and miss him and. 00:43:00
Yeah, definitely. We're excited to work with you though. I'm so happy for him. First of all, he's worked I think 20 something 00:43:02
years in this industry and it's good to see somebody like him finally be able to relax so. 00:43:07
I think he's got some cool things lined up for himself, but. 00:43:12
That's great. 00:43:15
OK, let's see if I can get this to work. 00:43:17
Just bear with me for one second. 00:43:21
OK, great. 00:43:29
All right, Good evening, City Council members and Vineyard City residents. 00:43:30
Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you guys tonight and for your continued support over the years. Like she 00:43:35
mentioned, my name is Jason. 00:43:39
I'm replacing Dan Miller, who had a successful career in Mosquito Bateman. 00:43:43
I've been in the industry for nine years. 00:43:47
And this is actually my first month on the job, so. 00:43:49
Hopefully you can bear with me a little bit, but I'm not going to be nearly as good as Dan presenting, but I'm definitely working. 00:43:52
Hopefully I can be good good by the time I'm. 00:43:55
You know, 20 years into it, but I'm here to provide you guys an update. 00:43:59
On the work we've been doing in Vineyard City, how our program has evolved. 00:44:04
With the goal of working together on a path forward that best supports both the city and the Mosquito Abatement District. 00:44:08
So our mission is pretty simple. It's to protect public health by managing mosquito populations using the most effective. 00:44:15
Efficient and environmentally responsible strategies available so over the past few years. 00:44:22
Our program is involved evolved significant like I mentioned before, we've actually. 00:44:29
Greatly increased or expanded our mosquito control efforts, prioritizing prevention. 00:44:34
By significantly increasing our larviciding efforts. If you guys don't know what larviciding is, it's the. 00:44:40
What kills the mosquitoes in the water? 00:44:45
As opposed to the trucks spraying around in your neighborhood. So we're far more effective. 00:44:47
At getting them in the larval state that we are in the adult stage, just to give you an idea. 00:44:52
Adult mosquito and adult female mosquito that is bitten, say bread for example, can lay up to 300 eggs each time that it. 00:44:57
Goes to goes the way it takes so and that can happen multiple times depending on the species. So it's far more effective to kill 00:45:05
them in the water like I said. 00:45:09
This proactive data-driven shift has made our program stronger. 00:45:14
More efficient and better at reducing mosquito populations with fewer chemicals like I mentioned before. 00:45:18
Here's what our team is actively doing in Vineyard throughout the season. So those little yellow dots represent the five traps 00:45:26
that we have surrounding your city. 00:45:30
And we do weekly mosquito traps, species identification, West Nile virus testing. 00:45:35
And GIS mapping to track mosquito trends. 00:45:42
Again, larviciding, treating standing water using drones, field crews and biking teams. 00:45:46
When I say biking teams, we have teams that. 00:45:53
Treat about 45,000 catch basins and gutters throughout the county. They ride bicycles all summer long and put chemicals into your. 00:45:55
Into your storm drain so. 00:46:02
There's a lot of Culex Pippians that what your vectors for us now that are specific to those storm drains. It's like the 00:46:04
environment they love so. 00:46:08
And again, adult deciding we talked about it a little bit. We also use Chuck mounted clogging. 00:46:14
Use selectively only when our TRAP counts, virus detection, or public health thresholds are met. 00:46:18
Think it's important to understand that we have thresholds and we will not spray until those are met. 00:46:24
To give you an example, this is all on our website but. 00:46:29
To give you an example, we won't call the plane in until we have a threshold of about 1000 mosquitoes on the lake edge in one of 00:46:32
those traps. 00:46:36
Before that, we try and prevent. 00:46:40
The best we can with the trucks and. 00:46:42
Our field workers and things like that, but we do have thresholds put in place. We're not just spraying all over, all over the 00:46:44
place all the time. So it's important to understand that. So the fine. 00:46:49
Has a different threshold than the trucks say it again, the flying has different thresholds than the trucks yes so the the trucks 00:46:53
we're constantly doing surveillance and. 00:46:59
Our thresholds for the trucks are actually pretty small. 00:47:04
Anything over 50 adult mosquitoes in our traps kind of triggers. 00:47:07
A response to go inspect the breeding sites and in fact, if we find a lot of larvae or we're finding a lot of. 00:47:12
Adults in the area, we will spray with the trucks. 00:47:19
With your targeted drone abatement that you guys have been doing at the main core sites, have you had to use your planes? I 00:47:23
haven't seen them out a lot. So last year we did about 7 air sprays for the whole for those season that cost us quite a bit of 00:47:29
money. It's about $10,000 for us to do an airspace. 00:47:35
So this is where the drones actually. 00:47:41
Helped mitigate that. It used to be upwards of like 1012 airspace a summer so. 00:47:43
We do see a significant reduction with the drones and the technology that we're using. 00:47:48
Again, we want to be conscious of what chemicals we're using. 00:47:53
A lot of them are. 00:47:56
Being restricted by the EPA for obvious reasons. So we're trying to adapt and find out things that work. 00:47:57
You know, to keep us environmentally sound. 00:48:04
So I can answer your question. 00:48:06
Thank you. 00:48:08
Just going to go over a couple of the treatments that we do provide. I touched on this a little bit, but we provide. 00:48:10
The larvae siding which is the ones in the water. 00:48:14
Treatment of larvae in water using safe biological agents, triggering the storm drains and catch basins using the same type of 00:48:18
material or, excuse me, chemical. 00:48:22
When I say chemical, just keep in mind this stuff is very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:27
In fact, we put it in horse troughs, things that, things that wildlife drink out of. It's very specific to the mosquito gut. 00:48:32
It's a bacteria that they consume that Burrows a hole through their stomach. 00:48:38
It's on the micro. 00:48:42
Pretty microscopic level so it doesn't affect hardly anything else other than the mosquitoes. Some some black by black fly larvae, 00:48:44
but it's very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:48
That's what we're putting in all the catch basins. 00:48:54
Storm drains as well. So we also use this is the this is the product and talking about this is what we primarily use in our drone. 00:48:56
We treated about 3500 acres last year with the drone, which is about a 300% increase. 00:49:04
From traditional methods since 2022. 00:49:10
Did you say the the base? Oh, there's your active agreed Permethrin base. 00:49:14
Yeah. So this, this one's, this one right here is actually a methoprene based I believe. 00:49:19
The vectormax is the BTI which is the bacterial pores. If you guys care to know I can say a quick story. It's actually it was 00:49:25
discovered in Israel about 100. 00:49:29
100 years ago. 00:49:34
There was number speaking no mosquitoes in this particular area and they found the bacteria in the mud next to this pond. 00:49:36
And they've actually utilized that bacteria to make make these naturally occurring. 00:49:42
I call them chemicals, but this is just a bacteria, this one specifically. 00:49:49
Is there have we have they moved away 100% from no use of Permethrin? 00:49:52
No, we still use the permission that that's going to be in your trucks, that kind of thing, OK. 00:49:57
We use. That's what I thought, yeah. 00:50:03
A lot of Permethrin. 00:50:05
And some I'll cover that right here actually. So the trucks are still doing Permethrin base, yes, which is right here. So we use a 00:50:06
Xanax ready to use, which is the excuse me, it's a pyrethroid, okay. 00:50:13
Yeah, very similar, very different form of family. 00:50:20
So this will use in the trucks. If you guys care to know, it's a Zen of XE4 we're trying to get. 00:50:26
I mean, it's not that we don't want to necessarily spray the trucks, but like I said before, we're trying to get to the source of 00:50:32
the problem, which is in the water, which is I think everyone can agree is a little. 00:50:36
A lot safer for the environment. 00:50:41
Kind of prevents a lot of people from getting mad at us for what we're doing the neighborhood so. 00:50:44
Put the trucks. 00:50:49
OK. Any questions about the chemicals we used before? 00:50:52
Earth thresholds or anything? 00:50:55
OK, I'm going to talk a little bit about. 00:50:58
I'm going to briefly mention the Mitch flies and what they call chinch bugs. 00:51:01
While these insects can be frustrating, especially near lakes and new developments, they are not a disease vector. 00:51:06
And they actually fall outside of our mosquito abatement program. 00:51:13
They are annoying, I agree with you guys, but they are they're not something that we're trying to control. 00:51:16
However, they do kind of, you know. 00:51:23
They have some control when we do the truck spring. 00:51:26
Because the truck is inactive. The way that it works is if it's the wings. 00:51:29
It'll pretty much get into their nervous system. 00:51:32
And take him out so. 00:51:35
That said, we absolutely care about the community's concerns and I'm happy to point residents towards. 00:51:37
Resources and strategies for mitigating those tests. 00:51:42
Just a couple of quick examples. 00:51:45
Limiting outdoor lighting at night. 00:51:49
Midges are strongly attracted to lights using motion activated lighting. 00:51:52
Warm colored bulbs or installing light Shields to reduce attraction could help. 00:51:56
You can keep your windows and doors sealed. Install or repair windows, screens or door sweeps. 00:52:01
Midges are small and can slip through those gaps. 00:52:07
And this goes along with mosquitoes as well, but reduce any moisture around your property. 00:52:11
You know, fix leaky faucets standing water. 00:52:16
Gutters, things like that, that are collecting water, they can breed in those as well. 00:52:19
So that the change books specifically, they're more of like a. 00:52:25
A common garden pest or like your lawn pest, they actually. 00:52:29
Reside in your lawns more than anything else. So your actual grass, they're eating that. 00:52:33
So again, it's something we don't necessarily target, but it's something that if your lawn is turning brown, that's probably 00:52:38
what's happening. So my suggestion there would be to get with. 00:52:42
Maybe these local pest control companies that you want. 00:52:46
OK, just so everyone kind of understands the difference, the mosquito on the left has a proboscis. 00:52:53
It's basically what they used to. 00:52:59
Seek their blood meal. 00:53:02
The Mitch flies, they do look similar, but they're not the same thing. So if you can. 00:53:03
It's hard to tell unless you're kind of up close, but usually. 00:53:08
Mitch flies are going to be more day active and obviously these are more towards the evening time. 00:53:11
We'll talk a little bit about Mitch Flies. 00:53:19
They form large columns that circle upward like that picture. 00:53:21
They're attracted to light. 00:53:25
They will fly in the day and night. 00:53:27
The larvae actually develop in the mud. 00:53:29
Of Utah lake not necessarily the same places as. 00:53:33
Mosquitoes do, which is in the wetland habitat, so. 00:53:36
A lot of these Mitch flies are actually coming from the late edge itself. And we do, we do some mosquito Bateman on the lake edge, 00:53:39
but most of it's in these, you know, the wetland areas, the breeding sites that like the floodplains of the lake. 00:53:44
So that that's what I'm concerned about because the mud, the mud plane is next door to Utah City. And so my biggest concern has 00:53:50
been. 00:53:55
But you're not targeting midge flies. No, we don't. That's what. 00:54:00
Right and that's why I like keep saying is like how is that problem. 00:54:04
I wish they were here because I keep saying that like, sure, that's not going away. 00:54:09
Yeah. And I think it's important to understand that it's probably not going to right live next to the lake it's gonna be part of. 00:54:14
Vineyard City and living next to the lake, I think it is as long as. 00:54:21
As long as it is a problem, but I don't there's not really a solution for Mitch flies themselves. But we are working hard to make 00:54:26
sure the mosquitoes are not a problem. Well, I think it's important. 00:54:31
I think it's important to point out that you are focused on. 00:54:36
Umm, things that do spread disease. Correct, but there are resolves for things like chinch bugs and mesh flies. 00:54:41
People were to focus on. 00:54:50
This is not what you're focusing on because it's about disease. Exactly right. And I get that, but like. 00:54:52
We're trying to get thousands of people to come to an outside area, you know, have a downtown. And like we keep saying, oh, the 00:55:00
county will because the population will come up. And I'm like, I don't think they even target it. 00:55:05
Just as a point of order, I want to make sure that we're focusing on. 00:55:11
Take some time and talking about what you're doing, but you did mention that if you. 00:55:15
Residents or our downtown or anybody had questions about abatement of those types that you could get this information? Yeah, 00:55:21
absolutely. OK. 00:55:24
I don't have any links or QR codes. 00:55:28
A lot of our information can be found on our website. My plan is to post a little bit of. 00:55:32
You know the issues we're dealing with mid flies and options for you. 00:55:38
There's just not a whole lot we can do. They are kind of bystanders and what we. 00:55:43
Doo Doo. I mean for UOB spring and happened to be out. They will die, but that's not what we're actually gonna focus on. You know, 00:55:47
I can't just come to your your parks and spray Mitch buys because it's a it's a nuisance type of thing. But the vectors for sure. 00:55:53
There are companies out there. In fact, my previous employer about nine years ago, you guys could probably reach out to them. I 00:55:59
know they did a little bit of midge fly. 00:56:05
Abatement efforts. 00:56:11
On the North End of the lake. 00:56:12
It's called VDCI, or Vector Disease Control International. 00:56:14
I don't know how effective it was, it was after my time there, but they did do some similar similar treatments like we do, like 00:56:18
larvae siding. 00:56:22
For the Mitch Fly Largo themselves, but I don't know how effective it was. Do you guys, do you guys measure the mud plan because 00:56:27
like into the lake because like. 00:56:32
Right out from. 00:56:37
Even the new City Hall is. 00:56:38
It's like 400 yards of mud. Like it's the three. I mean, it's not been known for 50 years. That's where it's at, like. 00:56:41
Right, the only thing we really monitor is the. 00:56:49
Floodplains and the lake level. 00:56:51
OK. 00:56:53
To this forestry, fire and state land part, it's like, yeah, and we get all of our information from like the Century and Water 00:56:55
Project, that kind of thing. We don't actually do it ourselves. We pull that data. 00:56:59
Partners websites, so. 00:57:05
Any more questions on Mitch Fleischman? OK, so mosquitoes, I mean you guys are pretty aware of what they do, but they become 00:57:08
become aggressive fighters at sundown. 00:57:12
For a few hours and then they go back to bed. 00:57:16
They sleep, they seek blood meals, they're attracted to CO2 and light. 00:57:18
And they lay their eggs mainly in stagnant water, not necessarily by the lake. 00:57:23
On the lake edge, I should say, but yes. Does that make sense? More on the floodplains and the wetlands, yeah. 00:57:28
And most importantly, like we covered their, their, their carriers of diseases, so. 00:57:33
OK. So today with the strength of our larvicide program, enhanced surveillance and better resource management. 00:57:39
We are very confident in our abilities to provide science based. 00:57:45
Environmentally responsible mosquito abatement to your city. 00:57:49
With a focus on larvae siding now being the backbone of our efforts. 00:57:54
It's more targeted, longer lasting, and highly effective at keeping mosquito poppiers populations low. 00:57:58
And another point I want to mention is. 00:58:04
We're committed to treating every city, including Vineyard. 00:58:07
With the same high level standard guided by science and data. 00:58:10
This ensures kind of like fairness among the whole the coal county. 00:58:14
We take you guys. 00:58:18
Numbers and everything into consideration and obviously if they're higher, we're going to prioritize you. 00:58:20
But we can't necessarily just be at your beck and call specifically. Does that make sense? It's all trap based. We've got we've 00:58:25
got numbers to. 00:58:28
To help us make those decisions so. 00:58:33
You know I. 00:58:35
I'm glad that you're being honest with that because having been here for 40 years. 00:58:37
Nevertheless, just call, call, call and I'm like. 00:58:41
Guys, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, that's that's what we that's not the science, right? And if we can't, you just don't. 00:58:44
We don't want to give them false. 00:58:50
Premise of. 00:58:52
It's important, you know? OK, now keep in mind, we do. 00:58:54
We do want the residents, including everybody here that we want you to submit service request. 00:58:58
Which helps with our surveillance, but we also don't want 1000. 00:59:03
Yeah, so. 00:59:07
Well, and I think the great thing is that in the past you've done spot treatments, but like you were going to talk about a little 00:59:08
bit tonight, we integrate your services with our services. 00:59:13
And so there is that joint effort that we're doing together. Yeah. And I'll actually cover that here in just a minute, but. 00:59:18
Umm, just to give you guys an idea of what we've accomplished the last couple of years with the technology advancements. 00:59:25
We've actually reduced our field workers by two. 00:59:30
And we fight. 00:59:33
By doing all the technology advancements we're actually able to check about. 00:59:35
About 200% more spots than we previously have since 2020. 00:59:39
We attribute a lot of that to the drone work and things like that, being more precise with our targeting. 00:59:43
What does this mean for you guys moving forward? 00:59:51
We're going to continue trapping, treating and monitoring Vineyard just as we always have. 00:59:54
We will treat to the maximum allowable rates under product labels when justified by data. 00:59:59
And we will remain fully committed to protecting Vineyard residents. 01:00:05
It's our understanding that you have some funds set aside to aid us in this fight against the fight. 01:00:09
And we are excited to support Vineyard City and utilizing these resources. 01:00:14
Whether that's enhancing public outreach, hosting educational events, organizing school presentations. 01:00:19
I'm happy to help with all of this. I know you guys have a little bit of funding put aside and I've got three sources to do it. 01:00:24
I just don't necessarily have the manpower. So if you guys want to go that right, I'm happy to help you as well. 01:00:30
Thank you. 01:00:37
Almost done. Sorry, I'm probably taking a little longer. I should. What can you guys do? That being said, we're here for a few 01:00:38
ways you guys can protect yourselves so. 01:00:42
Eliminating standing water around your home. 01:00:47
Is key and it serves as the breeding ground for mosquitoes, or it can additionally. 01:00:49
When spending time outdoors, let's make sure we wear proper clothing for that long. Loose fitting types of. 01:00:55
Articles of clothing will help. 01:01:01
That's pretty much it at this point. I don't want to take up too much more of you guys this time, but if you have any. 01:01:05
Questions for him I'm happy to answer. I think I've answered most of them, but. 01:01:11
We can always communicate by e-mail and. 01:01:14
Things of that nature as well. But thank you for everything you guys have done for us over the years and hopefully I can be a. 01:01:16
A good replacement for Dan and a good partnership moving forward. No, we appreciate it. We're really excited about it and we we 01:01:22
appreciate the. 01:01:25
Multi pronged approach that you guys take with coming in educating us. 01:01:29
So that we can help individuals take care of their needs and then integrating your services and extending with our services so 01:01:35
that we can. 01:01:39
Hit this as we. 01:01:44
From every angle as we build our community. 01:01:46
I remember when I first moved here and had to run. 01:01:49
Through the neighborhood when a certain, when you know 8:00 hit and it's so different now and your approach is a lot different, 01:01:52
it's very exciting so. 01:01:57
Umm, I am really grateful that your guys approach is shifting towards larvae and you know. 01:02:05
Because that's the science that we've all known. 01:02:11
My experience of video has been different with mosquitoes. 01:02:16
I was here pre development and all of the wetlands were pastures. 01:02:19
And so because of that, the fact and. 01:02:23
And vegetation was eaten down short. 01:02:26
Meaning the sun could get to the soil, the soil could dry out. 01:02:29
Or pool in open water. Open water allowed birds and others to eat it. 01:02:34
And until I was 18, we weren't known as the Mosquito Capital world. 01:02:39
And then and then out of blue. 01:02:43
When developers came in. 01:02:46
The promises of maintaining those pastures. 01:02:48
And having senses. 01:02:52
Put around them and maintain. 01:02:53
To not have that. 01:02:56
Our wetland corridor is a jungle and though it looks beautiful, with really tall weeds. 01:02:58
It's the infestation infestation of our larva. 01:03:03
And we drive by it. 01:03:07
And with our chemicals? 01:03:10
Thinking that. 01:03:12
We're going to kill the ones that are flying when thousands of them are sitting there being born for. 01:03:13
48 hours later. 01:03:18
Could we do you guys help cities put together? 01:03:20
AI know an infrastructure costs a little bit to get rid of the thatch. 01:03:26
You know, I don't know. 01:03:31
We're talking about many different pastures, the gammon, the ray. I mean, there's different water sources. I don't know what 01:03:32
they're named now in the city, but. 01:03:36
Do you help in saying hey for this? 01:03:41
This is what we recommend this because it's cheaper to do it that way. 01:03:45
Yeah, like they put a plan together assuming and I'm I'll have to double check because we all know that. 01:03:49
That's one of our reliable breeding sites, so. 01:03:55
That kind of effort is ongoing already, OK. If you guys wanted to be more involved with that. 01:03:59
I'd welcome that and we can definitely just. 01:04:06
I'm sorry, is that missing public structure? Just want to interject that. 01:04:12
You are with our partnership with Utah County Public Health. 01:04:19
Developing our stormwater master plan and also working on our stormwater systems for the maintenance cycle and fixing the 01:04:25
detention ponds so there's no outstanding water. Also the residents helping with. 01:04:30
Ensuring that there's nothing wrong your backyards and of course if they have any questions on that type of things. 01:04:36
This staffer Utah County is more than welcome to come there I. 01:04:41
I grew up and worked as power structure for many years and and the Miss Gilchrist Capital of the world, Orlando, FL and there's 01:04:46
lots of ways to mitigate mosquitoes. 01:04:51
In terms of ensuring that you have a healthy, sustainable infrastructure. 01:04:57
And like for example, Disney, Disney World has definitely. 01:05:01
Benchmarked the scale control they own, eliminating skills. They just control mosquitoes over there. 01:05:05
But definitely. 01:05:11
Those type of things like our stormwater master plan, which is in the works right now. 01:05:12
Is definitely a kind of on focus on ensuring that we get our storm water. 01:05:15
It flows properly, all the infrastructure is being maintained. 01:05:20
And then when it goes to Utah, the Utah lake. 01:05:24
When I say development, but smart development along Utah Lake. 01:05:28
Will actually help with mosquito control. I wouldn't say elimination. There are a healthy part of our ecosystem. 01:05:31
Yeah. Just just my two cents on that. Yeah. And we've been really grateful for the partnership that you guys have had and Dan has 01:05:39
shared a lot of that mapping with us and worked really well with our team. So over the years we've been able to build that so. 01:05:44
Thank you so much for coming and sharing and. 01:05:51
Well, we'll let you go for tonight. We'll come back with hard headed questions all summer. 01:05:54
So. 01:05:59
All right. Thanks so much, Jason. 01:06:00
All right, Brian, you're back. 01:06:03
Wait and break that. 01:06:10
Thanks for letting me go twice in one night. 01:06:14
Absolutely. 01:06:17
Let's see. 01:06:39
Wait, maybe just while it's loading, just to grip a little bit of background, so. 01:06:51
Some of you may be aware there's been a lot of interest in offering. 01:06:57
Concessions that grow park we. 01:07:01
Umm, we get people that will just. 01:07:05
Go and sell their own stuff or. 01:07:07
We'll have vendors that will show up in. 01:07:10
Wanting to sell? 01:07:12
And so we really feel like. 01:07:13
It's time to. 01:07:16
Did I do some research and show this to you guys and get your feedback? 01:07:18
As far as what to do with that? 01:07:22
Obviously the goal is to provide something that's. 01:07:28
Effective, safe, fiscally responsible. 01:07:32
Ideally something that's easy to manage. 01:07:36
And, umm. 01:07:39
Allows for residents to come to the park and stay in the park. Want to be there? 01:07:41
Um, before I jump into potential. 01:07:47
Solutions. 01:07:52
I just wanted to show this AI placer. 01:07:53
Data that we have from 2024 at Grove Park. 01:07:57
I just have it specified per two months. 01:08:03
Umm, so between April and September? 01:08:06
Of last year we had about 113,000 visits at. 01:08:10
Grove Park in particular. 01:08:15
Which if you average that out per day, is about 617. 01:08:17
Visits. 01:08:22
As a long term type solution. 01:08:25
What ideally staff thinks would be great is having a permanent space. 01:08:30
That we could potentially lease out to a contractor. 01:08:36
There's a number of cities that. 01:08:40
That do this or have done this. 01:08:42
Cedar Hills in particular is one that do it, currently at their park with a splash pad. 01:08:45
Umm, but essentially the idea of this would be to build like a 2 to 400 square foot. 01:08:50
Permanent building at Grove Park, just right near the pavilions. 01:08:58
I've overheard from. 01:09:04
Some of these vendors that the ideal location is the 50 yard line, right so. 01:09:06
This is like right and right smack in the middle of the splash pad. And so for them this would really. 01:09:11
Allow them to. 01:09:17
Be visible and and reach a lot of. 01:09:18
Park visitors. 01:09:21
Umm, so essentially. 01:09:22
Umm, the idea is to potentially have them, you know, be the park from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:09:26
They just pay a flat fee. 01:09:34
Rather than upfront, I've actually. 01:09:36
Received words since creating this PowerPoint. 01:09:39
It would be preferred to do a monthly. 01:09:41
Charge just so that it's not such a big fee right up front. 01:09:43
Umm, the nice thing about this is just the fact that it could be a decent revenue source providing. 01:09:50
Concessions to. 01:09:55
The residents that they want. 01:09:57
Options. 01:09:59
Umm, the reason I say this is a long term solution is because of the cost. 01:10:01
It would potentially cost about 75 to 130,000 for the design and construction work. 01:10:06
Umm And then as far as regulations, some things I think we need to consider is. 01:10:13
Limiting the amount of music, or at least the level of. 01:10:19
Volume, thank you. 01:10:24
Umm, ensuring that we have something in place to prevent them from walking around. 01:10:28
Trying to sell their items to individual members throughout the park. 01:10:34
Not allowing specific signage around the park except for in designated areas. 01:10:38
And then ensuring that the contractor would handle all taxes they would. 01:10:45
Provide proof of through food handlers permit. 01:10:50
And then also obtain a Vineyard City business license. So that's a potential long term solution we foresee. 01:10:54
Umm, in order to justify that. 01:11:00
We have a few short term options. 01:11:04
The first one is to do a food truck permit system. 01:11:07
Umm, the idea with this is again that we would just have a specific contracted. 01:11:11
Period of time, whether that be two months or six months. 01:11:17
And umm, we just allow the food trucks to come. 01:11:21
Any day, at any time between that specific time frame. 01:11:25
So when it works best for them, they just pay a flat fee, ideally monthly. 01:11:30
And these are not set costs. This is just kind of a concept idea, so we don't have to stick to this. 01:11:36
If you guys wanted to go this route, but essentially you could charge, you know, a food truck up to. 01:11:43
$1500 per truck. 01:11:49
For a 2 month period, or if you did all six months, you could triple that. 01:11:51
Umm, the benefits of this? 01:11:55
Very low maintenance on. 01:11:58
On staffing side of things. 01:12:00
Umm, you can get a variety of different concession. 01:12:03
Offerings right you can have. 01:12:07
Food trucks that offer. 01:12:08
Corndogs Pizza. 01:12:11
Whatever it might be. And then also you have desserts. 01:12:13
Umm, this would be a pretty good revenue source for the city. 01:12:17
Umm, having multiple food trucks would allow several different vendors to be involved. 01:12:22
Umm. And then just. 01:12:29
Kind of some things that would come with that is the fact that. 01:12:33
What I would propose is that we actually restripe the 9:00. 01:12:36
Parking stalls that are on the South of the parking lot at Grove Park. 01:12:42
And we install 4 to 5 bollards. 01:12:46
That would have changed. That would connect them that we would then give a key to each of the food trucks that they could come in 01:12:49
and then they could leave. So essentially that area would not be accessible to residents. We would restripe it so that there's 01:12:55
three designated areas specifically for food trucks. 01:13:01
And the specific reasoning for that spot is with it being close to. 01:13:09
A number of amenities and. 01:13:13
So that's one option. 01:13:17
Option 2 is we allow for a temporary space. 01:13:21
To be leased out to a contractor. 01:13:27
So for example, there's a number of food trucks. 01:13:29
Or vendor companies that have a trailer. 01:13:33
Or a kiosk that they could potentially. 01:13:36
Uh, place at Grove Park. So I sorry, it's kind of hard to see, but just right next to where the Grove Park garage is just on that 01:13:38
southwest side. 01:13:43
Umm, we would have the. 01:13:47
Parks and Public Works team pour a concrete slab there. 01:13:51
That would allow the vendor to then park the kiosk or the trailer. 01:13:55
Right there. 01:14:01
Which would put them right about the 50 yard line. 01:14:02
For, say, for the splash pad. 01:14:07
And then kind of the same idea at 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:14:10
Probably just have one vendor for the whole summer. 01:14:13
Umm, let's see the pros of this one. Obviously you wouldn't have to. 01:14:19
Eliminate some of the parking stalls. 01:14:23
Umm, some of the cons. I mean, you're limiting your. 01:14:26
Variety of concessions that you can offer. 01:14:31
It's only allowing one company. There's going to be really high competition with that. 01:14:35
Umm, we would potentially lose a couple trees that are. 01:14:40
Specifically planted in that area. 01:14:43
And then we would have to provide. 01:14:46
Ideally. 01:14:49
For the contractors is provide the utilities that they need for that location, which is estimated about $5000 for us to. 01:14:50
Make that accessible to them. 01:14:58
That's option 2. 01:15:02
Option 3 is just a combination of both. 01:15:03
Umm, so you kind of get maybe the best of both worlds with that, right? You get the. 01:15:07
Food trucks and you get the one that's. 01:15:12
Short term tentative snack shack. 01:15:15
Just right there by the splash pad. 01:15:18
Umm. So I'm open to any feedback questions. I'll see if you guys have on that. So to clarify, option one. 01:15:21
Umm, you could have several businesses selling in that one building. 01:15:31
How do you like? Would you have like a window on each side or something or how does that work? 01:15:37
Let's see so. 01:15:42
And it's so it's not option one. I'm talking about how you were talking about. 01:15:45
Sorry. 01:15:49
There's the smaller area that would just allow one vendor. 01:15:50
While there's the bigger shock that you're saying it would allow multiple vendors. 01:15:53
No. So the shack would just allow only one vendor. 01:15:58
Umm, the food trucks. We could have multiple food trucks. 01:16:02
OK, I get what you're saying. 01:16:07
Yeah, but but in the long term solution that would be 1 vendor currently. 01:16:08
I think that's what is that what you're trying to get to Marty? There's room for three food trucks on the South end of the parking 01:16:17
lot, room for one snack shack on the path that they would. I guess I was just confused by. 01:16:23
And the thing that says short term option too. 01:16:29
Maybe I need to understand that one better because I see the smaller. 01:16:32
Lot this. It was the harder one to find. 01:16:36
And you're saying just right there, it's a smaller space that would be more affordable? 01:16:40
Right. And it's just, yeah. So essentially. 01:16:45
Yeah, we would only have just the one vendor, no food trucks. So just the one vendor we would allow. We would pour a concrete 01:16:50
slab. We would bring the utilities over so they have access to power. 01:16:55
And then they would run all the concessions for. 01:17:01
The whole summer. 01:17:03
Knowing that that would probably be limited to probably drinks and. 01:17:06
Maybe shaved ice or just one just a few items in particular. 01:17:10
On the short term option. 01:17:16
Does he need more clarity? Well, hold on, hold on. Jake, did you need more clarity? OK, go ahead on the short term option. 01:17:18
I like it. 01:17:27
To start off with, because let's just test it out and see how profitable and have a conversation with the vendor and see is the 01:17:29
business profitable before you do an investment, right? 01:17:34
But the thing that would be awesome is if. 01:17:39
They could get power because generators. 01:17:41
At a park and hitting aren't great. 01:17:44
You know, so there's no option. 01:17:47
At that, look right there where it could be temporary. 01:17:49
Give them access to power. Oh, there is there, so there's power. 01:17:52
They would need, we would need to pull it over for them to access that so they're not going through the building. 01:17:58
Is there any way we could do temporary? 01:18:04
But with power and the ulterior plan to do that so it wouldn't have to be a loud generator by the pool. 01:18:06
So maybe just to clarify really quick. So with this option, we would bring the utilities that would potentially be about $5000 01:18:14
cost. 01:18:18
But then the potential revenue we would charge from the contract would be about 5000. So we basically break even with this option. 01:18:22
To answer your question here. 01:18:29
Jake, yes, this this option does provide that power source so they don't have to run a generator at this site. 01:18:31
Yeah, I think perhaps the best is. 01:18:37
Don't do anything big. 01:18:39
Give him power. 01:18:40
Allow them to see if it's profitable. 01:18:42
But even then, like let's say it's not, you have power to that location and chances are during Vineyard days or something. 01:18:44
You might actually need to run different things with power from there anyway, right? You could. 01:18:50
Because right now the power is coming out of the building. 01:18:57
And then would you put a separate meter on that and have them pay it or? 01:19:00
When you ran it or? 01:19:05
Umm, I think we could. 01:19:09
Incorporate something into the contract that would be something we could figure out. 01:19:11
So seeing how you are the Parks and Rec guy. 01:19:18
And you have studied this out what? What's your opinion? 01:19:21
Yeah, I think this would definitely be, I mean. 01:19:25
If it were me, I think it would be valuable to have a combination of both. 01:19:30
Just so that we can kind of compare and see. 01:19:37
What is? 01:19:41
The most effective? 01:19:42
I think that the benefit of this is that it does allow. 01:19:44
Various food options. It's not just limiting to just one. 01:19:48
And I've reached out to several different food vendors and. 01:19:52
Several of them have reached out saying they want to do it. 01:19:57
And so the interest is definitely there. 01:20:01
Umm, this would be my recommendation, but I'm open to. 01:20:04
That one makes it more interesting. 01:20:12
Because people love the food trucks and you can bring in a variety of different things. 01:20:14
To appeal to different people. 01:20:18
This also can help us. 01:20:20
Not only cover our costs, but have. 01:20:23
Additional revenue as well, whereas if we just did just the one temporary shack. 01:20:26
We're likely to just break even. 01:20:31
Umm, but then also that could allow us to see what the community is specifically interested in. Are they interested in just drinks 01:20:34
or? 01:20:38
Shaved ice Or are they also interested in corn dogs or churros or? 01:20:42
Is this like the food truck permit? Is this? 01:20:46
Year long or this is just the high season? 01:20:51
So this would just be during the summer months, so between April 1st and September 30th. 01:20:54
Just since those are the most. 01:21:01
I think that would make it worth their time to come to the park. 01:21:03
What are you thinking about bringing this back to us? 01:21:09
Umm, I can do it whenever I was thinking. 01:21:16
The next meeting or potentially the last one in May, OK. 01:21:17
I just want to make sure we were on your timeline so that we can really delve into this and prioritize. 01:21:21
For the Council, what they need to be going back looking at. 01:21:27
Making sure that they're getting feedback to Brian. 01:21:30
So that we can. 01:21:34
Make sure that you're prepared for that. 01:21:37
Yeah, well. 01:21:39
So it's $1000 a year up front. 01:21:41
For the food trucks, yes, that's an approximate. So that would be to like install the bollards and. 01:21:46
To restripe the. 01:21:54
And parking stalls and you've got. 01:21:56
I think the thing that I would want is a kind of a, not a commitment. You wouldn't commit a contract or anything like that, but 01:21:58
like. 01:22:01
I don't know how you'd say that MOMOUI just thought of a. 01:22:05
It's all going to go down to can they be profitable, right? 01:22:10
Yeah, but at the end of the day, we're out. How much for trying to bring food in? 01:22:17
Just kind of a. 01:22:21
Nice thing, right? Yeah, Amenity. 01:22:23
I'm wanting to implement. 01:22:27
Yes, this year like. 01:22:28
Right now. 01:22:31
If we can, that'd be great. I think the public would love it. 01:22:31
All right, Well, I don't think it has to be immediate. I think we can definitely take time and. 01:22:36
Over the next month. 01:22:43
OK, Council, why don't you go ahead and look through this? 01:22:45
And find your feedback and then Brian, why don't you reach out to the council this week and. 01:22:49
We'll start giving you that feedback to see when we'll pull you back onto the agenda. I'm just gonna save some time for you, 01:22:56
Brian. I think it's great and I think that I'm excited to see. 01:23:00
Let's move forward. 01:23:06
That's great. You too. 01:23:08
OK, well. 01:23:09
Thank you. I'm going to move on to the next one and we will get back to you with our feedback. 01:23:12
Awesome. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for all of your hard work on that. I know it's a big priority for our residents. 01:23:17
All right. Naseem, our Public Works Works Director, will talk about the CMC Vineyard Center design update. 01:23:24
I I. 01:23:39
3, 3333. 01:23:55
All right, so thank you, evening council members. Uh. 01:24:13
So as the. 01:24:17
Council As the RDA and State Council meeting went on and on, I found myself without more time to ask some more slides so. 01:24:19
I really appreciate that. We appreciate the extra time. 01:24:27
So no, that's definitely hard to come after Brian Baldwin. Definitely do respect him and he does a great job with all the programs 01:24:30
he does. 01:24:33
So I always say. 01:24:38
How it works we're always there to support people. Parks Direct, you know they're the face and make everyone happy and fellow 01:24:39
works so. 01:24:42
You know, we're happy to be. 01:24:45
You know, helping out. 01:24:47
So. 01:24:50
Doing the Vineyard City, excuse me, the Vineyard Center project update and also talk a little bit about the delivery process in 01:24:51
regards to. 01:24:55
How the Vineyard Center is progressing forward. 01:25:00
Here it is again. It's not just a individual effort, it's a group effort. So it's just recognizing a few people. 01:25:04
Who's put a lot of time and effort into this so. 01:25:11
There we go. OK, so just an overview, we're going to talk about the CMGC process. Our delivery method clarifies some procurement 01:25:18
tab. 01:25:21
Procurement processing clients. The benefits of early contractor involvement. 01:25:25
And then jump right into the Vineyard Center project development, and of course, talk about city planning and budgeting practices. 01:25:29
So let's look. 01:25:36
Kind of exciting. 01:25:39
So first let me just talk about what is the CMGC. 01:25:41
Sometimes I do a tongue twister on that I call GC. 01:25:46
Myself but it is construction manager, general contractor. 01:25:49
That's what it stands for. 01:25:54
It's a two phase project delivery method. The first phase is phase #1. 01:25:56
Pre construction and then phase #2 is construction. So phase #1 deals a lot with design, collaboration, costing but. 01:25:59
And Phase 2 is construction, is the actual construction implementation. 01:26:07
Portion of the project and that's again that's usually that's done. 01:26:13
After there's a future based on future approval. 01:26:18
What CMGC? There we go. 01:26:22
It does is provide that one emphasis does provide guaranteed maximum price. 01:26:25
Often called a GMP. 01:26:29
That's done, and that's given before construction. 01:26:32
It just doesn't allow the. 01:26:35
The municipality the the procurement procurement entity. 01:26:38
To focus on qualify on a qualification based contractor selection. 01:26:42
Oftentimes we go into construction practices. 01:26:48
Low, low cost, low cost. 01:26:52
Oftentimes, umm. 01:26:54
You know that is. That's not typically the best method. 01:26:56
On there so it does allow for qualification best contractor selection. 01:27:00
Which is how? 01:27:04
Design contracts are done is through an RFQ which is request for qualifications versus R. 01:27:07
He requests for proposals. 01:27:14
And the key thing on this is the owner does retain design control. 01:27:17
Over this process. 01:27:21
There we go. So moving on to what is this CMGC? I sold this. 01:27:26
Chart thank you from the Federal Highway administration who actually. 01:27:35
Advocates for CMGC as a contract method, so the contractor has. 01:27:40
Contractor acts as a consulting during the design. 01:27:45
Once the projects complete, the CMGC does did the work, so they are actively bidding to do the job. 01:27:48
So it's not an automatic. 01:27:55
Selection of the CMGC. 01:27:57
To do the construction for the work. 01:27:59
This allows the owner to make important decisions throughout the design using the using contractor input. 01:28:02
On that SO. 01:28:09
Pretty nice, the benefit and here's a slide that shows about the benefits for using it on municipal projects. 01:28:11
It does provide early cost certainty through that guaranteed maximum price. 01:28:18
It allows for acceleration of the schedule through a phased delivery. 01:28:23
If so, desireth. 01:28:28
One great one nice thing is it does help with risk reduction. 01:28:30
To provide for constructability review and early coordination or for construction. 01:28:34
Through the design period I speak, you know, I speak from personal experience. 01:28:40
Having worked as a genius manager for doing construction designs. 01:28:44
Asked having it built. 01:28:51
After, I've often had to send designs back to the design engineer. 01:28:52
To let them know that it looks pretty on paper. But you cannot build this. And that's one engineer from another engineer saying 01:28:56
that your thing is not going to be built. 01:29:00
I have one engineer said that was their job just to design it. My job to design figure out how to build it. 01:29:05
I figured out how to build it by time to apply to get a different engineer. 01:29:10
And they did. And it does allow for fewer change orders and reworking during the construction. 01:29:15
So again, it allows you to spot those issues with those areas where it could be issues. 01:29:21
Construction brings in the subject matter expert construction into the process early on. 01:29:27
Because change orders does happen. 01:29:34
But it's nice to identify what. 01:29:36
What the changes could be before? 01:29:40
It's during before the construction process so it doesn't become a change order. It's part of the design. 01:29:42
Contract collaboration on materials, needs and methods. 01:29:47
Again, means and methods is definitely something that determines the determines the constructability of the project. 01:29:51
It does throughout the whole thing does provide the public transparency and procurement flexibility. 01:29:58
To say you know. 01:30:02
We're doing the designs being done. 01:30:05
With contractor input to provide for. 01:30:07
Better understanding of how to implement. 01:30:11
The project helped to reduce costs. 01:30:13
By taking those future with would likely be change orders. 01:30:15
And incorporating them into design early on and allowing the. 01:30:19
Other issues the 2nd 3rd order effects. 01:30:23
Of those change or future change orders to be eliminated by. 01:30:27
Incorporating them into either corporate, into design, or even making good decisions. 01:30:30
You know what? 01:30:35
We're not. We only need to do this because we can do. 01:30:36
That instead. 01:30:38
Talking about purchasing policy like on that especially for compliance. 01:30:42
Here's a snapshot of our local purchasing policy. The City's purchasing policy update in 2022 sets the guidelines to ensure 01:30:47
transparency. 01:30:51
Efficiency. Legal compliance. 01:30:55
It does specify spending authority by dollar amount. 01:30:58
In regards and and for the approvals. 01:31:02
Small purchases made directly through their formal clothes. Higher purchases requires formal bidding. 01:31:06
Public solicitation of evaluation. So this is was done in 2022 and just a snapshot of that. 01:31:12
It's more going more in regards to. 01:31:21
The compliance in terms of purchasing or the procurement process? 01:31:26
The Federal Highway Administration, The DLT on the CFR. 01:31:31
To the federal regulations, Title 23. 01:31:35
So forth those Alpha and CMGC contract as a procurement method. 01:31:38
More so. 01:31:44
The Utah code. 01:31:45
Procurement code specifically. 01:31:47
Does outline the CMGC? 01:31:48
As a recommend, excuse me as a. 01:31:50
Procurement method. They also talk about design bit build which is your traditional method of. 01:31:54
As well as design build. 01:32:00
I have a question. Is anyone arguing that the. 01:32:04
CMGC model on the console. 01:32:08
I'm having issues with it. Is that why we're getting the presentation for this? No, I'm just going through the going through the 01:32:12
process just to ensure kind of to put it out there in regards to how the CMTC incorporates into it, if you'd like me to skip this 01:32:18
all together. No, I was just wondering if there was some controversy or some questions about it. 01:32:24
That they. 01:32:30
L OK, OK now. 01:32:31
I just want and I do. I do recall having done. 01:32:34
A presentation about early in the year when we were doing the. 01:32:38
Design portion of it. 01:32:42
Where I went through the contracting methods and so forth, I felt that I can't find my slides. 01:32:44
I won't want to redo the slides just for that reason. 01:32:48
But uh. 01:32:51
In terms of those, I thought it was appropriate just to kind of put them back in there again, recognizing that we may have people 01:32:52
from the public that may not have been present during my last awesome presentation. 01:32:57
So. 01:33:04
But yeah, so if there's no other questions, I'll move on. So examples of CMGC and the local government. 01:33:06
Provost City Center built in 2022. 01:33:14
Or Senate City Center built just as recent 2025. 01:33:16
Not really focused just on building this also can be used for other type of infrastructure I used. 01:33:20
We put up Orem Hillcrest Park was done through CNGC, built in 2023. 01:33:26
There's other methods other examples out there such as. 01:33:31
A large infrastructure projects bridges. 01:33:35
And highways etc. 01:33:38
So jumping in kind of more into Venice Center specific on the project. 01:33:44
Just to do a recap in terms of. 01:33:48
The timeline for the project on this. 01:33:52
Where the precise selection and design portion of it. 01:33:55
I wasn't here for us about back in 2019. 01:33:58
About 1 1/4 acres of land donation. 01:34:02
For a City Hall site. 01:34:05
There was an agreement for that back in October 2019. 01:34:07
And that was. 01:34:11
Agreed to be done part of the downtown area in 2000. April 2020, again prior to my time. 01:34:14
The Town Center zoning code identified. 01:34:21
The City Hall site. 01:34:25
Being specifically in blocks. 01:34:26
65. 01:34:28
Boxes I, you know, yeah. So I still use Google Maps to go around my own city. 01:34:30
Real quick I'm having a hard time like seeing the slides. Is there any way someone could e-mail it to me real quick so I can look 01:34:37
at my computer? 01:34:41
Yeah, I sent you. 01:34:46
I just like can't see it over there and I'm getting like glare right here. So cash consent cash will send you the non update 01:34:47
slides. I sent in the slides before I can just. 01:34:53
OK, I did add three more. 01:35:00
So, but kind of moving on to I won't be able to see it I. 01:35:04
It's too small for me. 01:35:08
Thank you for trying. 01:35:10
Sorry. All right, so again back in 2020. 01:35:15
The Town Center Arizona code identified the sites in the downtown area believe block. 01:35:19
Five if some are mistaken. 01:35:24
On that SO. 01:35:26
Fast forwarding June 2023, the city awarded Nelson Partners for to develop a spatial plan. 01:35:28
And spatial plan was present to City Council. 01:35:35
And May 2024. 01:35:39
And then shortly and a few months later to November 20, 2024. 01:35:41
The city signs that MO sign that MO use. 01:35:46
With Magnolton Association governments. 01:35:49
As well as the design services of our RFP. 01:35:52
Was posted, so when I say the design services, actually that's the actual designing of the building. 01:35:56
For construction documents. 01:36:02
That design services was awarded to, not the studios. 01:36:04
Earlier this year, January 2025. 01:36:08
Some some tourists were done to get a better understanding of. 01:36:11
Needs and requirements with Matt about the association, government and also. 01:36:16
Of our current projects. 01:36:21
Special plans for our. 01:36:22
And we're responding to functional spaces. So instead of taking spatial plans like bubbles on the bubbles on a piece of paper and 01:36:25
start making more functional spaces. 01:36:30
Uh, here is a visual of the veneer center. 01:36:37
Spatial Design. 01:36:42
I was showing the site in the downtown area. 01:36:44
Just north of the promenade. 01:36:48
Where we close to where we had our tree event. 01:36:50
Last Friday, so very beautiful area. 01:36:54
That was completed in April 2024, presented City Council. 01:36:57
And this incorporated a 10 year space requirements plan. 01:37:01
Not just for the bigger city staff. 01:37:05
But also for the Mountain Association group governments. 01:37:09
And also public use space, A warehouse, you know. 01:37:13
Possible tenant spaces, council chambers, et cetera, et cetera. 01:37:18
So again, um. 01:37:22
As a programming analysis moving forward to what we currently are. 01:37:24
In the process I say draft and process. 01:37:28
Going to. As you can see, this is functional spaces, uh. 01:37:32
Spatial. 01:37:37
Designs. 01:37:39
Were the Venner city architecture design again still being done in coordination of Mountain Association governments of inner city? 01:37:40
Staff were. 01:37:48
And about a 10% design currently. 01:37:50
With you know when I say 10% conceptual. 01:37:52
And ensuring that we have, I mean our 10 year space requirements next slide. 01:37:55
And Councilmember, I know that these are newer slides. 01:38:02
Here we go, I love this. 01:38:08
But again, just kind of blow up again. 01:38:10
Designs and processes at level 1. 01:38:13
Where you see the council chambers on the first floor. 01:38:16
Mountain Association Governments warehouse on the first floor. 01:38:19
Boost market boosts like areas for markets in the 1st 4. 01:38:23
You know, pre an area for a conference room kitchen. 01:38:28
My kitchen Small kitchen area. 01:38:32
Most council chambers does that for small events as well. 01:38:35
Umm, that, you know, cafe seating and, uh. 01:38:40
Really trying to utilize the space for to be able to kind of to help intermix the public. 01:38:43
Provide that for the public. Again, this is a work in progress. You may be able to do some. 01:38:50
Functional, other functional spaces in Belltown in the first floor as well. So just to clarify, so it looks like we took city 01:38:55
chambers. 01:38:59
I'm sorry, the council chambers from the 2nd floor now it's on the first floor. 01:39:04
That's currently where we're at. 01:39:08
Was what? 01:39:10
And then we don't have what else? Oh, we don't have the library on the 1st floor anymore. 01:39:12
We don't have to elaborate on this, not this one. Now again, this is a draft design in process. I mean, when I say in process. 01:39:17
Bring us all 10% designs on here so. 01:39:25
You mentioned the development agreement 2019. Does anyone have that ready? They just e-mail me. I mentioned development agreement. 01:39:29
The development agreement. 01:39:36
I said there was an agreement. Well, it's just an agreement. 01:39:39
So I just mentioned that I wasn't here. So is there like on your slide you said that there was a development agreement in 2019? 01:39:43
I said there was a 2 neck quarter acre land donation for City Hall agreement. 01:39:51
Oh, no development agreement, OK. Just like, hey, one day we'll do this, OK? I did not say that, Sir. 01:39:57
I said that there was an agreement. There was an agreement, a land donation for sale agreement in October 2019 and an outside 01:40:03
development agreement that I did. I'll say verbal agreement. 01:40:08
And I did. I didn't preface that that was this was before my time, OK, so I can't speak on exactly what was here for my time. 01:40:14
When we met in April, we hadn't. 01:40:21
There's no land donation agreement in April, though. 01:40:24
Eric right, Like do we have? 01:40:28
The donation agreement. 01:40:30
Yet for the land. 01:40:32
Like the document, are you referring to what was agreed to in in 2019 or are you referring to like now? 01:40:35
Or actually there. 01:40:44
Well, just in it some sort of MO U or. 01:40:45
Development agreement like. 01:40:48
Even if it's conditional it. 01:40:51
So you're just trying to find record of it, right? Yeah. They're like, hey, this is what we agreed with the with the zoning code. 01:40:54
Arizona code. 01:41:02
What is done in coded analysis? We can send you that from 2019 Pam. Can you make sure that? 01:41:03
Oh, you have a donation agreement? 01:41:10
Right. There's whatever that. Yeah, not a building. Yeah. OK, OK. Thanks, Kash. Thank you. 01:41:13
So did I clarify your question? Yeah. All right. Thank you, Kash. 01:41:19
All right, so kind of going back into my thing. So again, level 1. 01:41:23
Is there any questions on this department to level 2? 01:41:28
I'm not going to dwell too much on each level, just to go and give you an idea. One that I just wanted to mention is people are 01:41:31
thinking about it because I know where you already brought it up once the the. 01:41:37
I'm making an assumption about why the council chambers moved to the first floor. 01:41:44
And my guess is that that's for ADA consideration. 01:41:48
Largely, yes, I mean, so 88 consideration for the first floor, I mean again it removes a lot of something. 01:41:52
Say an elevator. 01:42:00
Gets in the way of. 01:42:01
Access. Exactly. Seriously, my last city in Florida. 01:42:03
Capital World was a. 01:42:08
The council members on the 3rd floor and we had four police officers. 01:42:10
For because we had other areas in the City Hall. 01:42:14
Offices over there. 01:42:17
When we did our expansion project there, we moved it to the first floor as it's almost as a separate building, a separate wing. 01:42:19
It was very it was nice and beneficial. 01:42:26
But because again, when the elevator goes down. 01:42:29
It's not appropriate to be carrying someone up and down the stairs. 01:42:33
But OK, so if I understand this correctly as as things have gone on. 01:42:36
Even just from the last meeting, there's been design changes or just. 01:42:44
Adjustments as they've gotten into the weeds on it, yeah, there's been discussions on the designs and regard regards to needs and 01:42:49
so forth. Cancer. 01:42:52
Meeting requirements. 01:42:56
My understanding too is that there are going to be community outreaches. 01:42:58
Where they where they get public input? Yeah. So yeah, that would be, that definitely would be the. 01:43:02
Of our discussion in terms of that, really like to take it from more from the 10% design. 01:43:08
To something that. 01:43:13
I mean if I'm 20% is on there typically 30% designs is really when you start engaging. 01:43:14
My daughters like your last. 01:43:20
Other stakeholders like your outside stakeholders, I'll say about. 01:43:23
Who aren't occupying the space 100%. 01:43:27
At a time, there are, there has been. 01:43:29
Outreach to others like to certain types of stakeholders. 01:43:32
You know, they're actively using, we get a 30% design, then you kind of like. 01:43:36
You kind of start. 01:43:39
Like if you're molding a sculpture of clay. 01:43:41
You know, you just you and then you're like, OK. 01:43:44
What what specific features you want and you really want to set the foundation? 01:43:47
Of the design and then you can start bringing in incorporating things. 01:43:52
On there because now that you said, here's our I'll say like this. 01:43:56
I did this for several years. Like you can't say where are your needs. 01:44:02
Determine what the needs are first and then. 01:44:05
That sets up your foundation. Then you go into. 01:44:08
I hate to say wants, but if you go into those things that. 01:44:10
Aren't outside those. 01:44:13
Outside this core function needs. 01:44:16
And then you start being able to mold your clay much better. 01:44:18
And that's that, that's what this process is supposed to. You're supposed to see changes as the design gets makes more sense and 01:44:52
the flow makes more sense. That's here. I'll take away that pretty well. 01:44:57
Danny, could you? 01:45:03
One of the questions and I don't. 01:45:05
I guess we ask it after because I really am enjoying going through these different designs. 01:45:08
Maybe let's ask the legal questions after. 01:45:14
Can we keep talking about design so. 01:45:16
And then, OK, so level 2 in terms of that mostly office space is shared exercise room. 01:45:23
This is, you know, with Mountain Mountain Association governments, bathrooms and so forth. 01:45:29
And future. 01:45:34
Office expansion area. 01:45:36
As well. So Level 3 on there with the. 01:45:39
Excuse me, this is. 01:45:44
Maximum level 2 is Vineyard Cities offices. 01:45:47
Level 3 would be Mountain Association Garland's offices. 01:45:53
So they had to share, share, share break room. So utilizing the partnerships. 01:45:57
To share to, you know, to share those. 01:46:02
Areas that would be overlapping. 01:46:05
And then? 01:46:09
Level 4, which is kind of like your event space. 01:46:10
You know, very, very, very popular with public stuff. And again, my lost city. 01:46:14
We we actually had a separate building that was on the lake. 01:46:18
You know, the nice thing about Utah like versus my last days like is there's no alligators in Utah like. 01:46:22
Not yet, but yeah, but. 01:46:29
About that, yeah, that and that and that we, you know, we had we had a restaurant we rented out, we rented out the restaurant 01:46:33
space in the very bottom then we had the total top floor is an event space and. 01:46:38
It was, it was very nice. We had some weddings there and so forth, so. 01:46:43
So that's a kind of. 01:46:48
Right there and then I kind of go into time. 01:46:50
Moving into the CMGC on phase one timeline just so you have an understanding about the. 01:46:56
How the how the process moves forth Sandy's GC? 01:47:01
RFP has been posted back in March. 01:47:05
And then City Council awards the CMGC contract. This will get realizes, kind of. 01:47:09
Approximate, approximate we go to say staff, we've gone through the proposals. 01:47:13
RCMGC. 01:47:19
On that and then well if you know after the contracts been awarded. 01:47:20
That CMGC. 01:47:25
Consultant Contractor. 01:47:27
Slash consultant? Really. 01:47:29
It provides as a budget framework to say, OK, here is a good understands like where the budgets, how kind of understand the 01:47:30
budgets and how the framework works. 01:47:35
But then moving on to. 01:47:39
Building plan development really getting focused. 01:47:41
Incorporated as part of the design team to start working on those building plans like. 01:47:43
You know, the architect says, oh, it would be so awesome to do this. 01:47:49
You know, skyscraper with. 01:47:52
Like toothpick type. 01:47:56
Foundations and the contractor can be like, now you're dreaming about. 01:47:58
That's going to be like the cost is really high. It's hard to build. 01:48:03
And such. 01:48:06
But moving on. 01:48:09
The cost estimating based on a timeline we're approximately approximately August of 2025. 01:48:10
We can get you know, com. 01:48:18
Come up with a. 01:48:20
Guaranteed maximum price. 01:48:21
For that facility construction documents, we're looking at September, November 2025. 01:48:24
And then this does not include all the public engagements in the middle. 01:48:30
I don't want to commit to that since I'm driving that with the girl train. 01:48:35
But we will have November, December 2025 or City Council. 01:48:40
Has approval of the project plans. 01:48:45
Then the last step of this phase is ending the. 01:48:47
Phase of the CNC which is the pre construction phase about December 2025. 01:48:53
Here again the RFP. 01:48:58
Excuse me, the RFP that we posted. 01:49:01
As in two phases. 01:49:04
Reconstruction phase, where the CMGC is collaborating closely with architects in our city. 01:49:05
Staff and appointed project team. 01:49:11
The support is the successful design and delivery of the project unless their their responsibilities and. 01:49:14
It talks about the process, the preconstruction services process. 01:49:21
Order 92 program development budget estimates value engineering for computer rent. 01:49:26
Implementation like logistics of how those things really workout. 01:49:30
Moving on, this is just a rough timeline for the Phase 2. 01:49:35
Because obviously there is no phase two-part of it. 01:49:39
Is further out than there, but we have to, you know. 01:49:45
We City Council to approve a phase two for the construction. 01:49:48
Going to project mobilization facility. 01:49:52
Exterior vertical. 01:49:56
Construction doing the interior side finishes project closeout and then. 01:49:58
So plus or minus. 01:50:04
I won't spend too much time, but the benefits to that this is This was taken from my last presentation. I did find this. 01:50:06
For my last presentation between different types of procurement methods. 01:50:13
And then you can see all those dollar signs. Those dollar signs doesn't mean. 01:50:16
You know, that's money. That's, you know, that's costing money. It's about cost development. 01:50:20
So, umm. 01:50:25
The traditional method designed to build. 01:50:27
Your cost development is nowhere on that timeline. 01:50:29
Your design build. You have cost development during your procurement stage, Your CMGC. 01:50:33
Your past development is in multiple stages throughout the design, throughout the design process. 01:50:38
And why is that important? We talked about that a little bit before about change orders. 01:50:43
Here's your classics. Classics 5 and change orders where. 01:50:48
And when you start the construction process. 01:50:52
Costco significantly off so. 01:50:54
On that. 01:50:58
A lot of what this does is this helps us align with the physical responsibility and planning. 01:51:00
How supports the short term and long term range for capital planning using PPE? 01:51:04
PPE. Excuse me? 01:51:10
Planning, planning, programming, budget, execution process. 01:51:12
AIDS and capital project budgeting. There's no construction funds are committed. 01:51:16
To this voice inflationary costs and delays by allowing us to foresee. 01:51:20
How the market is going? 01:51:26
Also grants or readiness because a lot of times when it comes to grants is do you have design? Do you have you know, what is your 01:51:28
cost realistic? 01:51:31
They don't want to award money when there is. 01:51:34
Uncertainty. 01:51:37
Of those things they want, they want to work money to entities are going to be sick to have successful projects. 01:51:38
And of course, it protects past planning investments. 01:51:47
Why with the PPE just put it out there is? 01:51:51
Is important with the PPE? Is the planning, programming, the budget? 01:51:55
And execution is a staple standard in the federal process. 01:52:00
Engineers manager. You know, engineers, management, planning, budgeting. 01:52:04
Annotation infrastructure projects. 01:52:09
Includes managing the projects throughout the life circle. Initial planning designed to construction maintenance. 01:52:11
So it's also, this also involves managing facilities and construction. I've said for military bases installation. The reason I say 01:52:18
that is. 01:52:21
Large organizations. 01:52:25
Have people dedicated to this process, especially the planning, programming, budgeting portion of that. 01:52:27
There, you know, that's very key, the foundation. 01:52:32
And I was one of those engineers. There we go. 01:52:35
I found that one so. 01:52:38
I was one of those in here again, I spend my that was my job was to make sure that. 01:52:40
Projects were being planned, programmed and budgeted properly. 01:52:45
So. 01:52:49
Any specific questions and cash is here. I don't get cash has been a key player to this. 01:52:53
On this cell. 01:52:58
Tash, could you talk about the changes in the design that were presented like just? 01:53:00
Because I know that we've been talking about. 01:53:07
It's, I mean, clearly it's changed from. 01:53:10
The Nelson Partners picture. 01:53:13
Page and then it's different on the next page. Yeah. So a key part of the spatial design is essentially like when Nelson came, 01:53:16
they met with. 01:53:20
Staff here, they met with Mag, they said what kind of space do you guys need? 01:53:25
And in doing so, they're able to come up with some rough square footages and they're able to kind of put it in a building there. 01:53:28
And that's what they left us with was the century, this design saying, you know, we want roughly 7000 square feet of. 01:53:33
That space mag needs 16,700 when you got whatever. 01:53:39
And that was a good starting point. So we essentially gave this to Method Studios Architects and said we need to refine this a 01:53:45
bit, we need to. 01:53:49
Potentially do this again. And so I worked with, with the architects and we sat down with each department director and said in the 01:53:52
next 5-10, fifteen, 20 years, what, what does your growth look like as we continue to expand as a city? 01:53:58
And we were able to chart that out to show kind of what our staff needs will be in the next few years. 01:54:05
And so that's where they're able to get this new footprint is based off of that document that we've created. And essentially what 01:54:11
you can do is. 01:54:14
For every person that you have, you have to have X amount of square feet. 01:54:19
Space for their office or their cubicle. 01:54:22
And so that's what kind of dictates the floor plate here. 01:54:25
But the design currently, like I said, top right green is the vineyard offices so far what we're looking at doing that in a phased 01:54:29
approach because we don't necessarily need the entire floor immediately. 01:54:34
You know, this building will service us for, you know, decades. And so the idea is, you know, we could start on the left half and 01:54:40
build that out and then as staff continues to grow, we could build that right half. We're still working through these kind of. 01:54:46
Ideas. Everything's up. Just an idea at this point. 01:54:53
But same thing, we have the idea of, oh, could we do the library here? And so we kind of floated around what that would look like 01:54:56
on the ground floor. We met with the library board yesterday to kind of discuss these options and it looks like they don't prefer 01:55:00
this method. 01:55:04
Or having it at this location. And so we've kind of told the the architect to steer away from that that we. 01:55:09
We'll find a way to activate some library space here, but not the library. 01:55:15
And so now we're more into the details of, especially on the ground floor, you'll see there's just kind of a lot of purple space, 01:55:20
like what do we do in that area specifically? 01:55:24
To make sure that we're programming it to our best ability. 01:55:29
And just to clarify. 01:55:34
So I know, I know this is conceptual, but. 01:55:37
In general, that footprint of the building is about the same, right? It's not. 01:55:40
From the Nelson Partners. 01:55:46
Yeah, it might be a little bit larger as a footprint of the building, but then open partners, I believe did have us going four 01:55:48
stories complete. 01:55:52
And if you'll notice on this latest plan actually. 01:55:56
Oh sorry, on this plan here, the level 4 we actually took off most of that top floor where it would just be event based in a large 01:55:58
patio. 01:56:03
Pet Your space is a lot cheaper to build out and so we thought we could create this really cool event space that could be kind of 01:56:08
an indoor outdoor function. 01:56:11
And so that's the idea that we're moving towards now have still have, you know, the capabilities for great event space, but also 01:56:15
be able to be outside and see the promenade, see the lake, see the mountains. 01:56:20
At an affordable price and that would eliminate the flex office space, right? Correct. That would do away with that, that leasing 01:56:25
space. 01:56:28
On the top floor. 01:56:32
OK. And then? 01:56:33
I think those answered my big questions. Can I just? 01:56:39
Laugh at something. 01:56:42
In this image. 01:56:44
Jake, this is for you. 01:56:45
I thought it said Jakes views. 01:56:48
But I was like, oh, cool. Like I thought Nasim put a like a little joke in there or something to Jake. But yeah, I know the site 01:56:52
is actually really, really nice because it is right on the venue connector, and you'll have the next block of the promenade on the 01:56:58
other side, so it'll be pretty unobstructed views of the lake. 01:57:04
And then we went with that L shape and that helps bring more views to the mountains as well as connects us closer to the parking 01:57:10
garage as well compared to the Nelson Partners design. 01:57:15
OK, um. 01:57:20
Thank you, that answers my question. This location was meant to be near the Aquatic Center. 01:57:23
Do we have anything that shows? 01:57:28
I don't know if you have anything, but where my mouse is, right here is where the Aquatic Center is. If you go out there and you 01:57:31
can access this road today, there's a road right here that will actually be being deconstructed and that will actually let us be 01:57:37
able to extend the promenade to the front doors of the building here, which will be a really neat experience. The park that 01:57:42
they're mentioning like that. 01:57:48
Hot air balloon will be right down here where my mouse is at. 01:57:54
So this will be connected directly onto the promenade. Thank you. 01:57:58
I have legal questions. 01:58:05
I Before we get into legal. 01:58:08
So with that, that you just showed we will not know a price, a definitive price until August ish. Yes and no. I defended the 01:58:10
price, correct. What what essentially we've done is, is with these numbers that we've given with architects and we're going to 01:58:15
have this many employees. 01:58:20
They're able to use previous buildings that are architects are the same ones who designed Orem and I believe the design Provo as 01:58:26
well and they're able to just look at those and say those came in at around. 01:58:30
X amount of dollars per square foot and they're able to provide us with a rough number that we can then use to use in our CMDC 01:58:35
contract. But yeah, in terms of. 01:58:39
Pricing for stuff we just don't know right now with. 01:58:43
With buying stuff, you know, tariffs and all that could change things and so that's why we're bringing on the CNGC contract 01:58:46
earlier on. 01:58:49
So we can involve them. 01:58:53
And get that pricing figured out so we do get an actual cost sooner than later. 01:58:54
Eric, you look like you have something to answer that in addition to using those comparables which are. 01:58:59
Very current Orem just opened their doors this last week. 01:59:05
They also add an escalation to that. 01:59:09
That includes. 01:59:11
Any inflation and estimated. 01:59:13
Increases in a potential cost. 01:59:15
So that the number is quite accurate. 01:59:17
And gives us that ballpark range in which we can. 01:59:21
Set a range right now. 01:59:23
To plug in all of our numbers and have a very close estimate on what our. 01:59:26
Anticipated annual cost would be. 01:59:32
What Mags anticipated the annual cost would be plug in the. 01:59:34
The dollars that we have available for. 01:59:38
Upfront investment and and then land on a very. 01:59:40
A pretty tight range for what our potential bond. 01:59:46
Amount would be. 01:59:49
So that's great. 01:59:51
At what point? Because I know that. 01:59:52
With some of these changes. 01:59:55
That we're looking at a lower cost. 01:59:57
Bond. So at what point are you going to feel comfortable sharing? Or can you share rough numbers? Sure. 02:00:00
Because I would really like to understand. What I would want from you is I want. 02:00:06
What we've already spent. 02:00:10
What we? 02:00:12
Like where we are to this point, I guess including everything. And then I want to know if it's adjusting the bond. Did you want to 02:00:14
ask your legal questions first? No, we can ask this first. 02:00:18
Great. So, yes, we do have those numbers. Our estimate right now is that our bond would be in the ballpark of 16 and a half 02:00:24
million to 18 and a half million. 02:00:28
As far as cash invested so far? 02:00:34
Today we have 1.5 million committed to the architecture and engineering. 02:00:37
Project. 02:00:43
We anticipate. 02:00:45
Mag to put their. 02:00:47
Their full amount 8 million. 02:00:50
We anticipate as a city putting in the three million that we had set aside for. 02:00:53
The the building. 02:00:59
And that would go in part towards this engineering contract that we have today. 02:01:00
It would go and park towards the. 02:01:07
The CNBC contract. 02:01:09
And then the remainder would go in as as cash for the construction project up front, so. 02:01:11
Our investment would be 3 million. 02:01:17
Mags would be closer to 9 million because they have. 02:01:19
Approximately half a million for the engineering. 02:01:23
Half a million. 02:01:27
For the CMGC. 02:01:28
And then the remaining 8 million towards the. 02:01:31
Initial. 02:01:35
At dollars there. 02:01:37
So what does that make the total cost of the whole project? 02:01:39
For including that total cost of the project were ballparking somewhere in the 29 to 31. 02:01:41
Million. 02:01:49
And then you're saying? 02:01:50
The range it's at right now is 28 to 3128 to 31. 02:01:54
OK. And then? 02:01:59
So to clarify, could you? 02:02:00
Sorry, let me see. So 28 to 31 is what you just said. 02:02:04
So then. 02:02:07
The bond because we've already put so we've already spent 1.5. 02:02:08
And then we'd be putting 3 down South. You're saying that out of our current budget, we're putting 4 point. These are all rough 02:02:13
numbers. 02:02:17
4.5 million total city investment 3. 02:02:20
Oh, that would include the 1.5. 02:02:24
Right. And from what from what I understand from you is that? 02:02:26
The current actual estimates are the lower area, but you're putting in a range to account for any changes. 02:02:31
So the 28 is where it's at right now. 02:02:39
The range is in case those numbers change as you continue to design and go through this process that we're going through. 02:02:41
So right now the actual estimates are. The close estimates are closer to the lower range. 02:02:48
But they're creating that buffer. 02:02:54
And and and including an escalation in there so that we can. 02:02:56
Account for some of those variations in costs. 02:03:00
So so so again to reiterate. 02:03:03
The city would put 3. 02:03:06
Mag would put 9. 02:03:08
Of those dollars? 02:03:10
We anticipate. 02:03:13
Approximately 3,000,000 total. 02:03:15
In soft cost so. 02:03:18
The the city currently where they're just dividing it for simplicity with 2/3. 02:03:20
City 1/3 mag. The actual ratio is closer to. 02:03:27
Who knows them off hand? 54 inch. 02:03:31
46. 02:03:36
Something like that of the ratio between mag and city space. 02:03:37
So 54% study space, they're in the document in the CMC. I'm probably misquoting it by at least 1%. I think it's good to have the 02:03:43
discussion. No, I know, I just didn't want you to write down the wrong numbers. 02:03:49
Thank you. 02:03:57
So. 02:03:59
When are you going to have this mapped out for us and presented like? 02:04:02
Or is this already in here? There's a public hearing on May 14th, but we're not. I would like to have. 02:04:07
Before then, so that the public could see what it actually is, we have we have our range published on our on our website and I can 02:04:13
just leave these with you. 02:04:17
At the end but they're but they're up on online. 02:04:22
OK, umm. 02:04:25
So what you're saying as it sounds right now with estimates? 02:04:27
The total cost of the project could be up to 31 million including Max portion. So that doesn't include anything. The total cost is 02:04:31
the total cost. 02:04:36
That's not not well, no, I'm I'm saying like. 02:04:41
Not just vineyards, parts. 02:04:44
31 million is everything total cost of building, yes, potentially. And what they're saying is they're seeing the cost at 16.5 with 02:04:46
28 million, but they're putting in a range to 18.5 that could go to 31, correct for the bond, correct for the and for that bond if 02:04:53
we only bonded for 16.5 to 18.5. 02:05:01
And I'm sorry, it's just a little bit confusing. I'm throwing a lot of numbers around. 02:05:10
The umm. 02:05:14
How much of mag? 02:05:18
Is that? 02:05:20
How much in that remaining bond is not going to pay? They're 1/3 of the costs. 02:05:22
Well, if they've already put 9 million down, I'm wondering. 02:05:27
So for the 16.5 it's like 11 something. 02:05:31
For the city. 02:05:35
The total amount for them at the at the. 02:05:37
$28 million option is approximately $11 million. 02:05:40
Total. 02:05:45
On the $31 million option, it's a little bit higher than that. 02:05:47
OK. Well, I was just wondering, I know that it's I know that you said it's on the website and I've got a piece of paper here. I 02:05:55
was just kind of hoping that we could actually. 02:05:59
Show the public some of these numbers to help them understand. 02:06:03
Kind of as like a step by step. 02:06:07
What's happening with the project? 02:06:10
Just to be more commutative, but umm. 02:06:12
And agreed. And This is why we put it so we have a page dedicated to the Vineyard Center on the Vineyard utah.gov site. 02:06:16
And both charts that kind of. 02:06:26
Establish that range. 02:06:29
Are published on that on our page right now. 02:06:30
So it's available for anyone and everyone. 02:06:34
So what you could add that might be helpful? Sorry, Jake, I'll turn it over to you in just a second. Maybe this is what you're 02:06:36
asking. 02:06:40
In February, we talked about how the process would work and we'd go through the architectural design and then the CMGC would 02:06:45
happen. And what you're asking is how are these numbers kind of being included as Cash was saying when he was talking about the 02:06:51
spatial design and how the process works? 02:06:56
Maybe we could put in the timeline of how those designs come in like again, charged kind of thing. 02:07:03
And then? 02:07:10
These you could say. I mean you already have them listed as the current actual and then the range. 02:07:11
Umm, as long as they're listed, and then you could see that in the Gantt chart. 02:07:18
We'll work on putting something like that together. 02:07:23
Jake so if the total cost to build. 02:07:26
Goes down to the 16 to 18 number. 02:07:31
I look at the total cost to citizens, which was the bond, which was 46 million. 02:07:35
If you're using the same amortization, this should be in the 37 to 38. 02:07:42
Total cost to citizens. 02:07:48
I mean your numbers are not going to be right. 02:07:50
And minor, but if you lower the same percentage, it would be in the 36 to 38 million. Are you talking about including interests? 02:07:53
Yeah, OK. Like total cost to citizen. 02:07:58
Are you talking about the bond parameters? 02:08:05
Yeah, like the total. 02:08:08
Like like the threshold, but there's a total cost to build and then there's the total cost to. 02:08:10
That citizens will pay over the amateurs. So the first number, are you talking about the 47? Are you talking about interest rates 02:08:15
on top of the threshold? 02:08:19
On top of the bond parameters. 02:08:25
Yeah. 02:08:27
Like how much interest? 02:08:29
He's talking about like a truth in lending, like a yeah, like on the here's, here's a maximum principal amount of the bond and 02:08:32
then the interest on top of that. 02:08:36
And he's calculating that out to a theoretical maximum of $46 million. 02:08:41
No, not 46. It lowers to 37. Tallied it up. 02:08:46
Oh, OK. Go ahead, Eric, maybe you can clarify what would they give us that new estimate, We have it. When you say new estimate, 02:08:49
what does that mean? 02:08:53
For the same last amount of total cost to build, I'm sorry, before you know what he's saying. OK, go ahead. 02:08:57
So, uh. 02:09:05
OK, so. 02:09:11
Using. 02:09:12
The high end of our current range that we. 02:09:13
Put on our website. 02:09:16
The total cost to taxpayers. 02:09:18
24658 OK, but that's not the answer to my question. 02:09:23
What is the 47 million? OK. So my question for you, were you so Brett, you were just explaining it a little bit. Yeah, so, so it's 02:09:29
on the bond parameters. We said we had a maximum of 6%. 02:09:36
And maximum of $35 million. So there's a theoretical and 25, I think we said 25 years. 02:09:45
Right. So there's a theoretical maximum of that $35 million plus all the interest over those years? 02:09:51
And that is the total amount that OK, so you're saying? 02:09:57
You're not even calculating the building costs that was discussed. You're talking about the parameters and then you're adding 02:10:04
interest on it potentially and then coming up with the 47 and then we're going back to the the high end of the range and you're 02:10:11
saying total cost would be total cost would be 24,000,000 and change. 02:10:18
For the city. 02:10:25
That obviously we don't, we don't include in that amount what MAG is paying because that's irrelevant to what taxpayers in our 02:10:26
city would be paying. 02:10:30
It seems like there's some confusion here. 02:10:35
About what? 02:10:38
The building is. 02:10:40
What a bond parameter is and the threshold, and what our current actual estimates are. 02:10:42
Maybe we can say there's current actual estimates which is the 16.5. 02:10:49
And there's a range which is the 18.5. 02:10:53
And there is the bond parameter which is 35. 02:10:57
And what's really important to clarify is that. 02:11:01
We have to consider that the bond parameters was for the full. 02:11:06
Potential need for a bond. 02:11:10
Not separating out mags portion because mag is not a bonding entity. 02:11:14
And so the city would bond for whatever is needed to bond for. 02:11:19
And obviously, our taxpayers would not pay for the portion that belongs to MAG. OK. So if you wanted to understand how the city 02:11:22
design works, Marty, then you would probably and how they're doing costs and how the CMGC works. 02:11:29
Then the Gantt chart would need to start from that. 02:11:37
From identifying all of those things, yeah, we could, we could do kind of a separate. 02:11:40
We can do a city, the city portion and the mag portion kind of is 2 separate lines. Obviously from a timing perspective they're 02:11:45
going to be identical. 02:11:49
But from a cost division. 02:11:53
It'll help split that up so that it's clear what what the city. 02:11:56
Is paying for long in the long term and what MAG is paying for in the long run OK? 02:12:00
OK. That makes sense. Now I understand what you're talking about and I think you got your question answered right, Marty, one of 02:12:06
them, OK. 02:12:10
Did you have another question? 02:12:15
I, I have, I have my legal questions. OK. I'm going to spread it around. Brett and Sarah, did you have any questions or can I go 02:12:20
back to Marty? 02:12:24
OK, go back. Go ahead. I'm ready. 02:12:29
Though, so I was splitting it up between the two of you. Were you just responding to Marty? Did I skip you? No, I I was just 02:12:31
clarifying. 02:12:36
In the other cities around us, they're paying cash and so the Local Government Bonding Act. 02:12:41
Title 11. Chapter 14 of Utah Code. 02:12:48
And notes that we have to disclose the total cost to citizens. 02:12:52
On the bond. 02:12:56
So like, it's like when you go buy a car, they're like, hey, here's the sticker, here's this, here's that. You get free tires, you 02:12:58
get all this. 02:13:01
At the end of the day, that we have to give a total cost to citizens. 02:13:05
And disclose that and that notification was the one posted up here. So that's why I'm like. 02:13:09
It's important to know. 02:13:16
The cost to build? 02:13:18
But because our city is going to finance, we have to then disclose, but we're also financing. 02:13:20
And so yeah. Oh, no, I, I understand that. 02:13:26
What you're what I think needs to be clarified from what I understand in this meeting. 02:13:29
Is that and we I think we can help get there with Marty's question is that. 02:13:35
There is a bond parameter and then there's what you finance. 02:13:42
And what you finance? 02:13:46
Is the cost of the building because that's what you end up bonding for, and what you end up bonding for has to be divided between 02:13:48
your partners and what you pay cash upfront. 02:13:53
And so you take the cast that you're going to pay up front the total cost. 02:13:58
And then you go to the actual bond and you talk about what you're financing. 02:14:02
And that is the 16.5 or the 18.5? 02:14:07
To the range that we're talking about. And so you give the total cost of the finance. Now what you're doing is you're taking it 02:14:11
all the way to a possible maximum credit that you could bond for if it costs that, but that's not what it's going to cost. So you 02:14:17
have to give the actual cost and range. 02:14:22
Of how you're going to finance it. 02:14:28
Well, I think it's important to note that we want all the numbers. It's not that we're just focusing on one number or the other 02:14:30
and typically. 02:14:34
Went and I didn't agree with your statement. Not all cities pay cash for their city halls, but you said that you said all the 02:14:38
cities around us don't want. So that's very different than all I would. We have talked about all the different bonds that cities 02:14:46
do and I do feel that bonding is a smart idea. Now, whether or not the community feels that way, we're figuring that out. 02:14:55
But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to discuss. 02:15:03
What we could do to get this the most practical project possible to the lower cost to make sure that this is fiscally responsible. 02:15:07
And so I want to talk about. Yeah, let's talk about what the. 02:15:13
The bonding act request make sure we know what the total cost is, but when I'm negotiating. 02:15:19
To plan for a bond, that's what I'm focusing on. It's not like I'm trying to ignore those numbers. Go ahead, Eric. Just just one 02:15:25
quick point. 02:15:29
LRB, I'm sorry, I'm gonna lose this thought and I'll give it back to you. 02:15:35
Then there's. 02:15:40
You made a point that I don't want us to lose in that conversation. 02:15:42
All the numbers are important. 02:15:47
And all of the numbers are important. 02:15:49
But they represent very different things, yes, and we cannot lose sight of it. And that's what I was clarifying. 02:15:52
There is a bond threshold. This would be like you have a credit card. 02:15:58
And you have $4000. That's the Max. 02:16:03
Then it would be what are you going to pay on? 02:16:07
How much are you actually going to go for? It's not even like a credit card because it being you could get 4000. 02:16:11
But I'm only going to go and I'm only going to get 300. It's like a pre, you know? 02:16:17
Pre approval for a home yes. So if I get pre approved for $1,000,000 house but I actually just want to go buy a $250,000 house. 02:16:22
It doesn't matter that there was an extra 750 available, that you were allowed to go is what you financed. 02:16:30
OK, Now go ahead and clarify. Sorry, I don't want to lose that because those have been confused about that here, especially if we 02:16:37
want to clarify it on the website is something we cannot be confused about. So I just wanted to point out that. 02:16:43
Gathered for us. 02:16:50
For comparable stance. 02:16:52
From a comparable standpoint. 02:16:54
The cities around. 02:16:56
The state that have done sales tax revenue bonds. 02:16:58
And there are 29 that were listed on that. There were some that were. 02:17:02
That were state infrastructure type. 02:17:06
Sales tax bonds and so excluding those. 02:17:09
29 different city. 02:17:12
Sales tax bonds have been issued in the last few years. 02:17:14
Ranging from small dollar amounts like a couple million. 02:17:17
All the way up to a $64 million bond. 02:17:21
And an $87,000,000 bond. 02:17:25
By Spanish Fork and Iron County and so. 02:17:28
It is a very standard route for. 02:17:31
And they went through a similar process of displaying it with design and displaying it with the CMGC. And we're saying those well, 02:17:35
sales tax revenue bonds, all sales tax revenue bonds. 02:17:41
I. 02:17:47
Sorry, I know that a lot of these numbers have been shared and I think they're very helpful. I'm I'm ready to go into the legal 02:17:49
questions if everyone else is. 02:17:53
Yeah, let's please go into that because. 02:17:59
Yeah, go ahead. 02:18:01
So we know that. 02:18:03
I have so many questions. 02:18:07
Jamie, do you, do you have some of my questions already right, like. 02:18:09
I'll pick one. 02:18:15
So we know that. 02:18:17
OK, let's go with this one. 02:18:20
We did a revolution for bond parameters for up to $35 million. 02:18:21
Now it's sounding like we might only bond for up to $18.5 million. 02:18:29
Did I get that right? 02:18:35
So. 02:18:37
The question. 02:18:38
And there's so many other questions with this question, but with the referendum possibly knocking out our door, I know that 02:18:40
packets are going out today. 02:18:45
Umm, I need to understand. 02:18:53
I feel like there's a lot of consequences to. 02:18:56
Amending bond parameter and there's a lot of consequences to not amending a bond parameter. And then there's. 02:18:58
How is the question if the referendum signatures go through, then what is that question on the ballot look like? Is it going to 02:19:05
say are you OK with the city bonding up to 35,000,000 when we're not bonding up to 35 million and we're bonding up to 18.5 and 02:19:10
then it's getting all at once? 02:19:16
And then? 02:19:21
If we just put the question on the ballot ourselves, what kind of rights do we have to do that? So rather than have the community 02:19:23
have to gather all the signatures, if we know it's something that the community has an appetite to vote for, then how, what would 02:19:28
the procedure be for us to put on that? And. 02:19:33
What would that cost? What would that look like? Is it even an option for us? 02:19:39
And. 02:19:43
That's it. 02:19:51
I'll try to start broad and narrow and then if you have follow up questions I'm happy to answer them. 02:19:54
Umm, if we go kind of the high level. 02:20:01
The the Legislature sets out the procedures by which cities bond. 02:20:04
And so the second you step into that process, you identify. 02:20:10
The type of bond and then that statute. 02:20:16
Lays out. 02:20:19
You know, from that point forward, what do you do? 02:20:20
For the types of bonds the city is contemplating what your sales tax and franchise taxes are, what you're pledging. 02:20:23
As collateral for the bond. 02:20:31
The you're required to do a parameters resolution. 02:20:33
Eric gave a great analogy for that, which is it's like going to the bank and getting pre approved for a mortgage. 02:20:37
And it doesn't mean that. 02:20:44
Take a mortgage on those terms, but it gives you the maximum. 02:20:46
That you've authorized both the maximum dollar amount. 02:20:50
And the maximum. 02:20:54
Interest rate. 02:20:56
On the bonds, I know they use different terms of interest rate, but it's essentially that. 02:20:58
So then when you look at the resolution. 02:21:04
The, the OR, I'm sorry, the referenda. 02:21:08
Petition. 02:21:11
Citizens. 02:21:13
Of the city. 02:21:14
Have contemporaneous. 02:21:16
Legislative authority with the City Council. 02:21:18
They don't have the same process as this, the City Council. 02:21:21
And so that's where it gets a little bit tricky, because the legislation for bonds assumes that. 02:21:25
City council's have this authority. They. 02:21:32
Use this authority. 02:21:34
I don't want to say routinely, but at least regularly. 02:21:36
For public infrastructure projects and and where that process is available to you. 02:21:40
There is not a process available to the council to say. 02:21:46
We just want to put the bond decision. 02:21:49
Out to a vote. 02:21:53
Unless the council decides to do general obligation bonds. 02:21:54
Which are really different. 02:21:59
Because general obligation would pledge. 02:22:01
All of the resources the city would have, and if the city were to default on a general obligation bond, then the bondholders could 02:22:05
come in. 02:22:10
And forced the city to do things. 02:22:15
And I don't think that's a good. 02:22:17
That's not what our financial advisors are telling us is a smart decision for a project like this. 02:22:20
You're better off pledging certain revenue sources and not the general obligations of the city. 02:22:26
Because then you'd be getting into property tax and things like that and we don't want to touch property tax. 02:22:32
So. 02:22:38
Yes, please. So with a Geo bond, if if we had decided, if we decided to do a Geo bond. 02:22:39
Would that require? 02:22:46
Would that require a property tax increase or could we go with our already established budget and just work off of what our income 02:22:49
is? 02:22:54
Like Geo bonds don't require property tax increase unless you can't. There's two sides to that question. Can I interrupt for a 02:22:59
second? I just want to call point order Councillor Holden way. 02:23:05
I, I'm finding this really frustrating that you're texting or doing whatever you're doing. I'm actually getting his feedback. So 02:23:11
he asked because this is a really critical conversation for you to hear. Oh, I know I've got to research it, but. 02:23:17
Now is the time to listen to the conversation, I don't think. 02:23:24
A person of a different party gets to say what I get to think about when I get to think about it. 02:23:29
He said something that I did. However, it is in our code of conduct that you are. I wasn't disrupting. I am paying attention, 02:23:33
that's why I'm asking the question. 02:23:38
I'm asking specifically right now what the RDA is. 02:23:42
About the bond, because it's that we put the point, the point of our code of conduct is that you are paying attention to this 02:23:46
meeting, right? 02:23:50
That's exactly what I see you texting. 02:23:54
That is not paying attention. That is totally OK Come up here and read every single thing that I'm texting about right now. 02:23:56
Like literally every single thing of what we're doing that that is not the point. Well, I guess hold on. So I'm going to point of 02:24:04
order. 02:24:08
I'm going to point a corner. 02:24:13
There's two things. 02:24:15
I think if you were researching something that's different, if you're texting, you guys are writing your notes down. Like look at 02:24:16
how are you point of order point, point of order. I, I want to, I want to just clarify something. 02:24:23
To gather feedback on something that we're discussing through text messages. 02:24:32
Is something that could be clarified that we're not supposed to be doing on the thing that we're working on? 02:24:36
Hold on, please. Hold on, please. Hold on, please. I think that, listen, I need to be able to conduct the meeting. I recognize 02:24:44
that you want to make a statement. I have to finish this so that we understand the two things that need to be clarified so that 02:24:51
you can move and do the things that you feel are appropriate and Brett can have his comment answered. 02:24:58
There are two things that happen here. 02:25:06
One that is addressing is that texting during a meeting to gather feedback from things that we're voting on is not supposed to be 02:25:08
occurring. Gathering feedback or gathering information is allowed. Is that correct? 02:25:15
Yeah, So a recommendation. I I think Councilmember Clausen's noted the point of order. It can be included in the record of the 02:25:22
meeting and it's something, if there's a concern about it, we could verify it after the fact. 02:25:28
OK. 02:25:35
I do think the topic of Councilmember Sequent is questions and any other council member that has questions about this are 02:25:36
important. 02:25:40
For us to get through. So I, Councilmember Clausen, if you're OK with it all. 02:25:45
Yeah, I mean, no disrespect is just. 02:25:50
You said something and I was researching that. 02:25:52
I mean. 02:25:55
I'll just proceed and answer that. Yeah, thank you. 02:25:56
So there. 02:26:00
When you. 02:26:02
I'm going to continue with the analogy of a home mortgage because I think it. 02:26:05
It makes sense here. 02:26:09
When you. 02:26:11
Acquire a mortgage. When you borrow to purchase a home, the bank requires collateral. 02:26:13
The collateral it takes is a lean on your home. 02:26:18
And if you default on the loan, then they can call the lien and they can evict you from your home and then sell the home to pay 02:26:21
off whatever's remaining on. 02:26:26
That amount? 02:26:31
Bonds are the same. 02:26:33
You the city pledges a collateral in order to receive that. 02:26:34
The money up front and then it pays for it overtime. 02:26:39
What you use to pay for it and what collateral was pledged can be two different things. 02:26:42
So on a franchise and sales tax. 02:26:48
Bond like the one Vineyard is considering. 02:26:51
The revenue source the city intends to use and the one that has been used to. 02:26:55
Use the word pre qualify. 02:27:01
For the bond issuance? 02:27:04
Are those revenue sources? And then if the city were to default on that bond? 02:27:07
The only thing the bondholders could come back. 02:27:12
And require the city to give them. 02:27:15
Are the sales tax revenues and the franchise tax revenues. So in the future, in the future general obligation bonds are different 02:27:19
because the cities pledging all of its resources. 02:27:25
As an obligation against the bond, in other words, the collateral that the bondholders demanding. 02:27:32
Would be any revenue source the city has. 02:27:39
And if the city revenue sources are insufficient, then they can force the city to increase its revenue sources. 02:27:43
Cities don't sell products they. 02:27:50
Have fees, they have taxes. And So what it could mean is. 02:27:53
That the bondholder comes in and says you have to raise your taxes. 02:27:57
In order to pay for this, I think I actually I want to rephrase one of my questions because. 02:28:02
It's not necessarily. I appreciate you explaining the Geo bonds and the sell tax revenue and franchise bonds, but. 02:28:07
What what I'm trying to ask is. 02:28:14
Even so, even if we just wanted to form a question. 02:28:17
Not, not necessarily. 02:28:22
Doesn't have to do with the bond specific it's saying do you support? 02:28:25
In theory, the city going to bond. 02:28:31
Or do you support building Vineyard Center? 02:28:34
For this amount of a bomb. 02:28:37
Like it's not about the bond, it's about. 02:28:39
The facility is about the commitment to cost. 02:28:43
Like, do you get what I'm trying to do? You want to just put a general question on the ballot? 02:28:46
An opinion question, Yeah. 02:28:51
You could probably get there. I don't know how you do it and. 02:28:55
Keep to a project timeline. 02:28:59
Well, I mean. 02:29:02
I haven't done a lot of research on procedurally how that would occur, So what I just heard. 02:29:05
In this discussion is the sales tax revenue bond has an administrative side to it where we're not allowed to put it on the ballot? 02:29:11
But once we vote. 02:29:19
Then the act. 02:29:21
Of doing a resolution is what we've deemed or what is deemable as legislative. 02:29:23
And that can be referred. 02:29:31
A Geo bond. 02:29:32
Raises property taxes. 02:29:34
And so that's legislative and you would put it on the ballot because you. 02:29:36
Because it raises property taxes and it's a burden on the people. It might be immediately. 02:29:41
It is. 02:29:46
Legislative, so you have administrative. 02:29:48
Legislative and then the second question or the third question? 02:29:51
That you asked is. 02:29:55
If a Geo bond is. 02:29:58
Not raising anything, you're just accessing current taxes. 02:30:01
You, I missed that part during the interaction. I think where Marty's going with this is she's asking. No, I know, I know. But 02:30:05
this one I want to clarify. 02:30:11
The Geo Bond question because I missed it. 02:30:18
If you have a Geo bond that you're going after that doesn't cause property taxes. Did you say that one was administrative or 02:30:21
legislative? Well, there's there's not the same determination on a Geo bond because the state statute requires it to go vote. OK. 02:30:28
So it is automatically correct. So I don't know. 02:30:34
A referendum on a Geo bond would be moot. 02:30:42
Because it goes to the ballot regardless, right? Where one is administrative to start and can be referred which OK. 02:30:46
And your point is, well, could we have an opinion question and you're going to look into it? Yeah, and I'll look into it. I think 02:30:54
the answer is perhaps yes, that there is a way to ask a general question of the electorate. 02:31:00
I think I don't know what that would mean for. 02:31:07
Everything else happening with the project, well then you'd have to analyze my response to you Marty is we would probably as we 02:31:09
research that. 02:31:13
Would want to look at the cost of delaying. 02:31:17
With space-time and everything that we've already, well, my, my question, well, this kind of leads to the referendum question, one 02:31:22
of the questions I didn't ask. 02:31:28
Is I know that it has been a question and a source of concern and legalities with what we are allowed to do. 02:31:36
Once, because we have the referendum application, you have acknowledged that legally that they have a right to do a referendum. 02:31:43
Did I say that right? 02:31:47
And then? 02:31:51
And so now they have their packets. 02:31:53
And they're going to start going around gathering signatures. 02:31:56
So are we? So at what point are we breaking the law by even touching this project? 02:31:59
Yeah, great question and. 02:32:06
A little bit of a tricky 1. 02:32:08
Legally. 02:32:11
Because there are several different things happening at once, so. 02:32:12
There's a memo that I circulated to the council and to staff. I have no problem with that memo being disclosed publicly that it. 02:32:17
Is a restatement of what's in. 02:32:27
The law, but framed through the lens of. 02:32:29
The referendum application that's been made on this. 02:32:33
The general rule is that. 02:32:37
Public resources, meaning city. Revenue sources City Money city. 02:32:40
Funded resources can't be used. 02:32:45
To advocate on something that is the subject of a referendum. 02:32:48
And now that an application has been made and that determination has been made about it being eligible to be placed on the ballot, 02:32:54
we are now in that scenario. 02:32:59
So no city resources can be used to try to persuade people one way or the other. Vote yes or no. 02:33:04
On this. 02:33:11
There are two other and that relates to the item being referred is the bond parameters resolution. 02:33:13
There are some tricky things with state law because it requires a sequence that when you have a referendum, that aligns in a 02:33:22
really weird way. 02:33:26
Because of parameters resolution sets a month after that a public hearing. 02:33:31
And there can be confusion by people saying, well, if the city announces that it's holding a public hearing or publishes 02:33:37
information, that allows people to be informed. 02:33:41
Before that public hearing, isn't that advocacy? 02:33:47
And I think that's where the city needs to be careful about how those things are phrased. 02:33:50
But it can provide factual information that will inform people going into that hearing. 02:33:55
And they can continue to provide factual information about. 02:34:01
Project The project budget. The project planning. 02:34:05
And you have kind of two parallel actions that are not referable decisions. 02:34:09
That our ongoing processes where it's appropriate for the city to hold meetings, engage with the public, answer questions, provide 02:34:14
information. 02:34:18
And it's the planning for the project. 02:34:22
And that's like what you heard from the same in cash today of. 02:34:25
How the sites configure, what the cost estimates are, What the work is with the public? 02:34:30
On the planning process with the architects, With the engineers. 02:34:35
And then there's a similar process on planning out the funding for the project. And I think that can still be communicated and 02:34:40
worked on. 02:34:44
I'm during this interim period. 02:34:48
There's nothing that would prohibit that. 02:34:51
And then? 02:34:53
Elected officials have. 02:34:55
A lot more latitude in what they can and can't do to advocate. 02:34:58
On behalf of the ballot referendum, so long as you don't use public resources to do it. 02:35:03
So you all. 02:35:09
Your own websites, your own social media handles, your own e-mail accounts. 02:35:11
Can advocate for behalf of the referenda however you wish. 02:35:17
You can't use your city e-mail address, city social media. 02:35:21
City Computers. 02:35:26
To do that kind of thing. So just be mindful of what resource you're using. 02:35:28
Can we use it to ask you staff or county of the process are we supposed to be? 02:35:33
Know any kind of process question you could use that resource to ask of us and then? 02:35:40
City staff also are able to respond to direct questions about. 02:35:45
The referendum or the referenda process. So if you know if a member of the public were to call and say. 02:35:50
You know I don't understand this thing or can you point me to a resource on this or help me understand this? 02:35:56
They can answer factual questions they're not prohibited from doing. 02:36:03
Customer service type. 02:36:07
Activities. 02:36:09
What they can't say to somebody is I think you should vote. 02:36:11
You know, this way. 02:36:14
For or against on the issue? 02:36:16
As a City Council member. 02:36:21
If there's already resources that have been provided. 02:36:24
I can use them for my own like if they've sure. 02:36:28
If they already have. 02:36:32
Images and documents and I can use that but I can't ask. 02:36:34
It's kind of confusing. 02:36:39
Because I guess, I guess the second part of this question is. 02:36:41
Does it halt the project because there's a referendum like we have hired? 02:36:45
We've hired the CMGC. 02:36:52
No, we haven't hired the same. 02:36:54
So do we have we did clear the design? 02:36:57
But the designs we do have the designing process, there's a public hearing. So we don't call and tell them stop designing it 02:37:01
because there's a reference. I can, I can answer that. I understand what you're asking. Let me answer the first question and then 02:37:07
I'll get to the what legally I would call us stay. 02:37:12
A stay, STAY. 02:37:19
Your follow up question was can you use city or staff prepared resources to inform your advocacy? Yes, of course. 02:37:23
What you can't do is ask staff to create. 02:37:31
Advocacy resources for you to use. 02:37:35
So if for example, you wanted to create a social media post that reviewed the plans, the documents, the status of the project. 02:37:38
And then you wanted to argue to people that look for all these reasons. 02:37:47
You should vote a certain way on the project. 02:37:51
Well, a lot of those figures and the data that you're pulling from is created by staff. 02:37:54
But Staffs not creating them for advocacy, they're creating them for the project. 02:37:59
To understand what the dimensions are of the project. 02:38:05
How it will be funded and what the estimates are and it's and they've created and maintained, I think a useful website that does 02:38:08
that. 02:38:12
It's not an advocacy website, it's just a website that. 02:38:16
Has been as close to real time as we can. 02:38:21
Information. Factually correct information about the project. 02:38:25
You're also required as part of the referenda statute. 02:38:31
You be in the city. 02:38:34
Is required to publish. 02:38:36
Document that was published over the weekend. 02:38:38
According to the statutory deadline, that's a fiscal and legal impact statement. 02:38:42
And that has to be factually neutral, but it also has to contemplate all of the potential. 02:38:47
Legal and fiscal impacts. 02:38:54
Christie and I are the 2. 02:38:57
Persons identified in the statute as responsible for that, it's your budget officer and. 02:38:59
Your city attorney. 02:39:05
And we created the document in consultation with the Financial Advisors and Bond Council. 02:39:07
Because they have a little different skill set than we do. 02:39:13
Informed what went into that document. 02:39:16
That's a document you can rely on for. 02:39:19
Factually neutral information. That's not an advocacy document, but it'll layout. 02:39:22
The potential legal and fiscal consequences. 02:39:27
And then? 02:39:30
Your next question. 02:39:32
Was about when and at what point work on the project. 02:39:36
Stop. And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because referenda are about. 02:39:40
Referring uh. 02:39:45
Decisions that the City Council made to voters. 02:39:47
And the only types of decisions that are eligible to be referred are legislative decisions. 02:39:51
There are Supreme Court cases saying that bonding decisions. 02:39:57
Tend to be legislative. 02:40:02
There are not Supreme Court cases that are recent on the topic. They're back in 1936 and 1939. 02:40:04
There's the 2012 case that discusses them and basically says. 02:40:11
If they came up again, we think the outcome would be the same. 02:40:15
Neither of the bonds in those two cases are. 02:40:19
The same type of bonds that the city are putting forward. 02:40:22
But the Council's direction on this was. 02:40:26
To avoid a position on it that would invite litigation and so. 02:40:28
My determination was this is. 02:40:33
A referral. 02:40:36
Legislative decision most likely, and that the Council wasn't going to resist. 02:40:37
Having it referred and allowing the voters to. 02:40:42
If enough signatures are gathered. 02:40:45
To allow. 02:40:48
People to vote on it. 02:40:49
Umm the referendum statute has a specific time at which. 02:40:50
Work on the bond would be stayed. 02:40:55
And state is the legal term of art. That just means you stop doing things on it until you have the vote. 02:40:59
And that would be at the point in time when. 02:41:06
Signatures are gathered. Signatures meet the statutory threshold. 02:41:09
Which is 11.5% of registered voters in the city at large. 02:41:14
And 11.5% of the voters in each of the voter districts. 02:41:18
Within the city. 02:41:23
And once signatures are submitted that hit that level. 02:41:24
Then the city would not be able to pro ceed. 02:41:28
With the parameters resolution. 02:41:32
I don't think there's much risk of. 02:41:35
A decision to move forward with a bond issue occurring before. 02:41:38
That deadline, just looking at the sequence of the hearing and then when. 02:41:42
You would take up that decision. 02:41:47
But that would not stay. 02:41:49
Work on architecture and engineering. 02:41:52
Work on cost estimates. 02:41:55
Work. Work on issuing a contract. 02:41:57
You'd of course have to reconfigure your whole financing on the project. 02:42:00
But theoretically, a project could move forward even if. 02:42:04
Upon parameters, resolution is rejected. 02:42:08
I say that theoretically, carefully, right? Because that's not what the Council's directed or what you're doing, but. 02:42:11
That's kind of the legal hypothetical thing. So as it stands. 02:42:18
And you're saying from a legal standpoint? 02:42:22
Until the signatures get turned. 02:42:26
Financial conversations with the with LRB about bond. 02:42:29
Time can be spent on all those things. 02:42:34
And then you're saying once the signatures if the signatures if they collect enough signatures and turn it in. 02:42:36
Then that's when bond conversations with LRV would need to stop until the boat went through. 02:42:41
Well, the city could still ask questions of its financial advisors with or without a box. The the parameters resolution and the 02:42:48
effect of the parameters resolution would stay. 02:42:55
As of that day. 02:43:02
But then As for your SO, you're saying but construction and design work. 02:43:03
And we obviously couldn't construct things if we knew that the bond was up in question, right? 02:43:08
Right, you'd have to completely redo your project. 02:43:15
Financing right I. 02:43:18
I'm just I'm. I'm simply offering that. 02:43:20
The only thing being referred as the bond parameters resolution, not any other aspect of a project. 02:43:23
And that's not me. I'm not making a. 02:43:29
Judgment, they're saying, you know that's. 02:43:32
Good or correct or right, it just that is the action that's been referred. 02:43:35
And there are other actions the Council will take I don't or could take. 02:43:41
Related to the project. 02:43:46
I don't believe any of those decisions would be. 02:43:48
Legislative order referral. 02:43:51
Contracts aren't legislative. 02:43:54
Planning isn't legislative. 02:43:57
Unless you get into land use decisions or things like that. So I guess as a council can I jump in? 02:44:00
Because I didn't get to do the building. Did you want to finish your thought? OK, I'll let you go. 02:44:07
It might be no, you're fine. It might be towards I kind of was leading to your e-mail, OK. 02:44:12
Because I guess as a council so. 02:44:18
I guess the concern has been said that. 02:44:21
If we have a referendum. 02:44:24
And. 02:44:27
And let's say they gather enough signatures. 02:44:29
I it kind of feels like. 02:44:32
Either direction, it's like this gamble of. 02:44:35
You know, if they get enough signatures and we're just continuing working business as usual, are we spending money potentially on 02:44:39
something that's just not going to happen? 02:44:44
And it's or not. 02:44:49
That's going to be put on hold and we're still investing into it and it could fail and we're still investing in it. We're still 02:44:51
investing in it. 02:44:54
I guess what I'm wanting to know from staff at some point is. 02:44:58
What costs are we? 02:45:02
Potentially incurring through this whole process. 02:45:05
And at what point do we want to have? 02:45:08
A city stay? 02:45:11
Where we're not spending funds that we don't know for sure we're actually going to get results out of. 02:45:12
Does that make am I not making sense? 02:45:17
You are making sense. 02:45:19
So there's nothing legally that you have to stop building, but practically. 02:45:21
Yeah, I understand the question. I let me. 02:45:26
I guess help you understand just the time frames on the referendum. 02:45:29
If packets go out this week. 02:45:33
The longest amount of time. 02:45:36
The referenda sponsors would have to gather signatures would be 45 days. 02:45:38
The way the statutes written. 02:45:44
They have up to 45 days from the time they receive packets. 02:45:46
But on. 02:45:51
The first day on which they began gathering signatures. 02:45:52
Then they only have 30 days from that date. 02:45:56
So to put it a different way, there's there's a potential 45 day envelope. 02:45:59
So to speak, within which signatures could be gathered. 02:46:06
But there's they can only use thirty of those 45 days, but they can kind of pick where they. 02:46:09
Want them to be so the city will know whether the. 02:46:15
Referendum. 02:46:19
Signature gathering effort is successful or not. 02:46:21
At the latest 45 days from the day they get the packets. 02:46:25
So you're looking at the most a six week period of knowing. 02:46:29
You know, is it or is it not going to qualify for the budget or for the ballot? 02:46:35
And then I guess the question for Eric and staff is within those 45 days, what are you spending resources on? 02:46:40
For my part. 02:46:48
I've had. 02:46:50
I do work for more cities than just veneer and I've also litigated on this and. 02:46:53
And had cases go all the way to the Supreme Court. 02:46:58
And the. 02:47:01
More often than not, these signature gathering efforts fail. 02:47:03
I don't think you want to assume an outcome one way or the other. 02:47:08
And I certainly don't say that, you know, wishing for one thing or the other on. 02:47:11
On the effort, it's my job to remain neutral. 02:47:17
To make sure the process is done legally. 02:47:21
But more often than not, they do fail. And so I I would caution you just it's a good question to ask, but I don't know that. 02:47:25
Stopping work on something on the expectation that a signature gathering effort will succeed. 02:47:35
Is supported by. 02:47:41
The data. So you haven't answered my last question. I ask a lot of questions. 02:47:43
Can I can I answer the question? 02:47:52
And it was kind of more directed my way. 02:47:54
I would just point out that. 02:47:56
Having the plans for the Vineyard Center in hand completed. 02:47:57
Have a durable value to us and so whether we built that? 02:48:03
This year or in the future? 02:48:06
They will be of value as you look at that. 02:48:09
Legal and fiscal evaluation. 02:48:12
It lays out. 02:48:15
The inherent costs of a pause. 02:48:16
But those inherent costs are not. 02:48:20
Don't do it because you don't want that in hand. We know that the need is there. We know that the city is growing. 02:48:23
And that we're going to need space for. 02:48:28
Housing staff to deliver the services by only needed for the city. 02:48:30
And so completing that. 02:48:34
That those plans. 02:48:36
Is of great value to us. 02:48:38
And then you didn't answer my question on what kind of question will be put on the ballot? 02:48:42
If the reference like, how do we? 02:48:48
Decide. Or how do they decide? Or who decides what that question looks like? 02:48:50
Pam does. 02:48:56
But but Pam doesn't have. 02:48:58
Unfettered discretion on what the language looks like the item being referred as the parameters resolution. 02:49:01
And she will have to craft ballot language. 02:49:07
That accurately describes the parameters, resolution and what it does. 02:49:11
And then there's. 02:49:16
Time in that process for. 02:49:19
Those for and against to pick it that way. 02:49:22
Language. Umm. 02:49:24
I I would disagree that. 02:49:28
It has value. It only has value if you're ever going to build it and if I listen to the sponsors of the referendum. 02:49:29
That's not the type of building that they would build. So having plans. 02:49:35
For a building they wouldn't build if it failed the ballot box, there would be, but there's a risk. 02:49:39
But the thing that I'm looking up at that I wanted to clear up. 02:49:45
Was umm. 02:49:48
Just kind of clearing up. 02:49:49
The different and I would never advocate for a general obligation bond or property tax bond for this at all. 02:49:52
However. 02:49:58
It's really important to understand that. 02:50:00
Because it's not of general obligation bond. 02:50:02
The full faith and credit of the city is not backing it. 02:50:06
So because of that, it's off of the. 02:50:09
Umm, sales tax. 02:50:12
Umm, up and down of the economy, right? 02:50:19
So therefore it's riskier and that's why the interest rate is so high. 02:50:22
Especially when we're putting it on. 02:50:26
100% on credit, right? 02:50:28
And I think you. 02:50:31
Made a good point. 02:50:32
In calling it a credit line because it's very similar like a credit line. 02:50:33
And the problem that we. 02:50:39
Find ourselves in right now. 02:50:41
Is that we? 02:50:43
Moved forward. 02:50:44
Without a credit line. 02:50:46
And we put $1,000,000 to $3,000,000 into plans. 02:50:48
Without getting pre approved on a credit line. 02:50:53
And that's and I would just advocate. 02:50:56
You know that's what I was saying in February is like let's go get pre approved for an amount that citizens would not. 02:50:59
Bakat on a referendum like a total dollar. 02:51:06
Get pre approval and then do the plans. But we did it reverse. 02:51:10
And what do you mean? What do you mean when you say go get pre approval? 02:51:14
Well, a bond. 02:51:20
And going and passing bond and then giving that seven day trigger period lets you know that. 02:51:22
Citizens don't have a problem with it, but because we've no, I mean how would we go get pre approval? Who are you talking about we 02:51:28
would get pre approval from? 02:51:32
The pre approval is going and passing a bond. 02:51:36
Legislative decision. 02:51:40
And then so we we learned today. 02:51:42
By doing the sales tax revenue bond that that is an administrative decision and we couldn't put it on the ballot. 02:51:45
I'm not talking, yeah, you're getting lost there. I'm, I'm talking about our sales tax bond. I'm saying we should have done a 02:51:53
sales tax. 02:51:56
Bond first. 02:52:00
Instead of the $1,000,000 in building the building because if we would have. 02:52:02
Put it out there. Hey, we're doing 35 million. 02:52:08
And do that legislative decision before, but it's not a legislative decision. Hold on. 02:52:11
Just a point of clarity between Jake and I. Number one, that's not a legislative decision to put out the bond. 02:52:17
That we couldn't have put it on the ballot number. Hold on. No, the legislative decision. The legislative decision. 02:52:23
Is to be able to refer the resolution. 02:52:32
The ability for us to put the sales tax revenue bond by ourselves on. 02:52:35
On the ballot is administrative. We're on the same page, OK, But there are two different things and I want to clarify it because 02:52:39
some people think we could have done it, but it's administrative until that point. Yeah, I'm definitely not resolutions or legal 02:52:44
law, definitely not saying that it would have been asked the citizens on November what I'm saying, OK. But second, I think I 02:52:49
understand you. 02:52:54
Is that? 02:52:59
Always in city process we plan first. 02:53:01
And then we go out and get the money. And this is what we did with the fire station. No, it is. 02:53:05
No, we do. Actually. We always do design. 02:53:11
And we do plans. 02:53:14
This is why the CMGC process is so important and what we're doing and what Marty asked to be on the website is to say. 02:53:16
What costs do we actually need? 02:53:24
But Jake, sales tax revenue funds don't usually go in that order. They go in this order. 02:53:28
That we're doing right now. I worked for construction and I get architectural drawings and then I submit a bid. 02:53:34
You know this process. 02:53:42
You submit a bid and then they go, oh, this is how much it's going to cost. 02:53:43
And then that's when these companies are like, oh, we need this many million. So I don't understand why you're saying we did it 02:53:48
backwards because I feel like that is typical process in the corporate world, construction cities standard and it brings down your 02:53:54
cost. We did it for the fire station we put out to process. People were worried about the cost and it ended up saving us 10s of 02:54:01
millions of dollars. And then we came up with this great plan because we put in the. 02:54:07
Long range plan first. 02:54:14
OK. But but in the construction world that is totally correct, right? Like so private people can go through and do that? 02:54:17
This is this and it's according to. 02:54:24
Well, we're following the codes that all of the cities follow. 02:54:28
When Marty says typical standard operating procedures. 02:54:33
Of these construction costs and the way that sales tax revenue bonds are put in by communities OK, I mean it doesn't matter I 02:54:37
guess we're arguing that the past but. 02:54:42
I think, well, we're not arguing about the past, We're arguing about the process. Yeah. And this is a good and healthy process 02:54:48
that we're supposed to be utilizing. And I think it's important to. 02:54:54
To clarify that, just like how we are supporting the right of the citizens to have a referendum. 02:55:02
Like it's not. 02:55:08
Like there's processes through all of this. 02:55:09
And specifically, our timelines have given them the opportunity to do a referendum. And if it gets, if they have their 02:55:12
accomplishment now, it can actually go on this year's ballot. 02:55:18
So, umm. 02:55:23
Yeah, that's another point that I think is really important. 02:55:24
The city couldn't. 02:55:28
Put it on the ballot because it's administrative. 02:55:30
But wanted the people, in case they wanted something different, to have the opportunity to put it on the ballot. 02:55:33
We. 02:55:41
It offers both sides. 02:55:43
But while we go through it. 02:55:46
The long range planning will save us in the future and Cash stated it nicely. 02:55:48
It was X amount. 02:55:53
Of space or person dictates the floor floor plate whether or not you wanted a different shape or design the information that we 02:55:56
will acquire from this. 02:56:01
Is important in all long range planning for the future. 02:56:07
And I believe that. 02:56:10
If people understood how the designs and all of the processes and the engineering was going into it to say. 02:56:12
This is what our staff needs. 02:56:19
This is what's happening. That information can always go to the future. We use this in all of our processes. 02:56:21
We use this in all of our long range planning and we've done it forever. That's what makes things shovel ready and then when we 02:56:28
get to that point, that's where we enter construction. So we're not starting on a building. 02:56:34
We're in the middle of design and that might mean we won't get to construction for a while. 02:56:40
And maybe this changes, you know, throughout the year, maybe as we're going through the numbers, we change that because. 02:56:44
As a council outside of everything that you're talking about with referendums. 02:56:50
As a council, we haven't even decided. 02:56:55
If we're going to move forward. 02:56:58
And so we're in design phase. 02:57:00
There's steps in the process that have to keep going. 02:57:03
My last comment and I think it's really important just to listen to cash and the adjustments. 02:57:07
Is. 02:57:14
You know, in just a month we went from there will be a library to now there isn't a library or it's significantly reduced. 02:57:15
But it was never stated that there would be in every discussion that we had. It was what we're exploring is this where we put 02:57:25
this, is this we have three different options for these facilities. 02:57:31
And that is what they're coming back and saying and in February. 02:57:37
You guys asked, can you bring these updates back? Can we see these things and that is what's occurring. We're bringing it back and 02:57:42
saying, OK. 02:57:47
We went and met with everybody. We went and asked the questions. We're exploring it and it makes most sense outside of this 02:57:52
building. 02:57:55
Is what you're commenting on was their feedback? Can I interject? Yeah. 02:57:59
So as far as the library. 02:58:04
We wanted the library board to make. 02:58:06
The decision. 02:58:09
Of how they wanted to grow. 02:58:10
And so in our meeting last night, the opportunity was there for them to go into the senior city. 02:58:12
Center, but they all wanted to stay here. 02:58:18
And utilize that top floor with the idea I don't know if any of you have. 02:58:22
Toward the other. 02:58:27
Libraries around like Springdale, or. 02:58:29
Spanish sport, they're pretty amazing. 02:58:32
And so. 02:58:34
Their goal was to utilize this with the idea that they could. 02:58:35
Potentially build something. 02:58:40
Really great in the next 5 to 10 years. 02:58:42
So this was the decision. 02:58:46
The library to stay here. 02:58:48
Was with the library board. 02:58:50
No, I I knew that I watched that. But but what I'm saying is, is that. 02:58:52
Even like to night of what we're saying and the flexibility and the type of construction, it's so flexible. 02:58:57
That it will change between here and August because it's still. 02:59:04
Conceptual. Umm. 02:59:08
And I think. 02:59:10
No, I don't think that's what they were saying. They're saying they're going to refine the details. What we're doing is we're 02:59:11
closing in on things and that the CMGC. 02:59:15
Will help that engineering find alignment with the design and go through a few more steps to make sure those numbers are coming 02:59:19
into play and that that. 02:59:24
There isn't designs that's not going to work according to construction needs and construction costs. 02:59:28
So that we don't see. 02:59:34
Things go over. 02:59:36
And what Eric was saying is that as we do that process those we're going to get a very close number. 02:59:38
Umm, a tight? What do you call it, a tight? 02:59:46
But a tight number according to comparables that also take into consideration your other comment, which is we don't know about 02:59:50
interest in all of these things, but there was an escalation that was built inside of it, right, Okay. 02:59:56
So to your point. 03:00:04
What are you most concerned about? So, so we can I understand, I know legally we don't have to put a state, but I would I would 03:00:07
just. 03:00:11
And I know I said this in February, I would go to the citizens first. 03:00:16
And find out the size and scope and put a stay on it. 03:00:21
I know just learning and just reaching out. I think there's a 5. 03:00:26
5 to $6 million, maybe $3,000,000 solution. 03:00:30
Trailers. 03:00:36
Portable things, Buying a house, allowing us to save. 03:00:38
Solutions that could umm. 03:00:42
Quickly get us going to. 03:00:45
Give us the ability to give us a bridge to three to five years. 03:00:49
But I also think in meeting with the. 03:00:52
The referendum sponsors. 03:00:55
Listening to what their concerns are. 03:00:57
You know, coming together to try to find a solution would be smart. 03:01:00
But I don't think I know legally we don't have to put a stay. 03:01:03
And they could continue to build the. 03:01:07
$30 million twenty 2 hour portion building but umm. 03:01:10
I don't think that is wise. 03:01:15
I have a question. 03:01:17
Eric was going first, but is it too late? I would like to. 03:01:19
When you say it's more affordable, like, do you? Do you sincerely not see like? 03:01:24
Because I hear this argument a lot and I don't feel like you kind of subscribe to it. 03:01:30
Is I think bonding is smart. 03:01:37
I think that with inflation and construction costs and if you if we would have built something five years ago or even with our 03:01:39
water tank is a good example. 03:01:43
If we would have been able to build it three years earlier, we would have saved. 03:01:47
I don't remember how many million someone threw out the number, but several million. 03:01:51
Do you? So my, my concern is I'm like looking at the practicality of all of this and I'm just saying from my opinion, I'm not 03:01:55
talking about the communities opinion because I know that. 03:02:00
Is very important and I'm trying to understand. 03:02:04
But what I'm trying to understand first is what I think is logical. 03:02:07
And what I think is logical is. 03:02:11
I worry that if we wait. 03:02:14
And save up or just basically saving up for an increase of cost? OK, so time. 03:02:16
Time out for a second. Did you have something to add to this before we have a discussion? Just wanted to clarify that that we did 03:02:22
do an evaluation of saving. 03:02:26
As opposed to building today. 03:02:31
And the conservative estimate that we find in the fiscal analysis? 03:02:33
Is 3.65 million. 03:02:38
Over the next five years, if we just waited five years. 03:02:40
The more realistic. 03:02:43
Healing of what it would cost us additionally additionally just on just standard inflation in construction costs. 03:02:45
The more realistic. 03:02:53
Estimate is 6% per year. 03:02:55
Which would bring us up to approximately $2,000,000. 03:02:58
Per year. 03:03:02
In added costs for every year that we waited. 03:03:03
And so somewhere between. 03:03:07
3.65 and 10 million. 03:03:09
That we would lose. 03:03:12
Simply by waiting five years to start. So hold on one second. That is for the project that we're looking at right now for the 16 03:03:14
to 18 point $1,000,000 box, correct. So if if we did change our mind to do something smaller, we would still have an increase, but 03:03:20
it wouldn't be that same increase. 03:03:25
Correct, but I guess the point being that. 03:03:31
That waiting on something that we know we need today, we're out of space. 03:03:34
We're toppling on top of each other, we're needing to rent new space and so forth. 03:03:39
That is, the need is not going away and so. 03:03:44
Acting today is prudent because of this this cost savings that that would produce. 03:03:49
So Jake, you mentioned trailers and things like this. I'm guessing what you're talking about is something separate than what 03:03:55
we'll. 03:03:59
Then or on Saratoga Springs, there's quite a few that have utilized portable trailers or homes. 03:04:03
Sorry that that wasn't my question, but thank you for clarifying. I think one of the reasons why we started this discussion and 03:04:11
what we'll be talking about. 03:04:15
At the public hearing with the designs. 03:04:20
And some of the numbers that we saw tonight that Cash was talking about with the space we needed. 03:04:23
Incorporates. 03:04:29
The trailers that we are working out of and the. 03:04:31
The other, but the other buildings that we have throughout the city and the space that we're utilizing right now and then it will 03:04:35
probably outline the facility plans that we have and we'll be able to look at all of that. 03:04:41
What I heard inside of your comment though was that you were looking for a stay period. 03:04:48
And Marty asked questions on it. You were talking about numbers that you put out into. 03:04:52
But there was a comment that there's a 30 day collection period that might be able to give us time to have a discussion with 03:04:59
within six weeks. 03:05:03
I'm sorry, what? 03:05:10
There's a little more time than what you're thinking because. 03:05:19
Once they turn in the packets. 03:05:22
The county has to. 03:05:24
Verify the. 03:05:26
The signatures and the voters. 03:05:28
And then my office has to. 03:05:30
Certify that. 03:05:33
OK. So I think something that we can take away from this conversation is this. 03:05:34
We are going to, we are already in process of designing something and I think it would be beneficial to go and talk to staff and 03:05:39
sit down with them and go through that facilities plan and look through these things to understand it better and where we're at. 03:05:47
Then we'll have the best opportunity to present kind of what? 03:05:54
You guys are coming up with as you're talking to the architect and the CMGC that you're bringing forward to show. 03:05:59
How that is helping design this project process for long range and why we do it? 03:06:07
And then outside of that, you guys can go back and forth and make that determination on when or where you want to take the next 03:06:14
step in voting. 03:06:19
And then that's outside of something else that will maybe take you to a ballot or maybe not take you to a ballot, which is 03:06:24
entirely separate from this conversation. 03:06:29
Sorry, I apologize. Could I ask one more clarifying question? 03:06:35
Council member Holdaway mentioned that that. 03:06:39
Going the sales tax bond route. 03:06:42
Came at a much higher interest rate. 03:06:45
As an expense, I wanted clarification on that because. 03:06:47
What we're going to go bond then what we're pursuing? 03:06:51
Is a non taxable. 03:06:54
Sales tax bond for the entire structure of the building, which is a. 03:06:56
Which is a Moat. 03:07:00
Quite a substantial discount from what it would be in any other format like a. 03:07:01
Like a private. 03:07:06
Loan would dictate. 03:07:08
Right, but it would be higher than a go. 03:07:10
And it is point. 03:07:14
Zero, 5% higher than a Geo bond. 03:07:16
Right, but it but that's substantial on a 39, not substantial. 03:07:20
I mean, I would like to understand your definition. I mean, on government record. I mean, yeah. 03:07:25
I just wanted to make sure it was clear that. 03:07:30
Oh .05%. I mean, yeah, you can't say that it's comparable to a private. 03:07:32
Mortgage because mortgage governments get government loan I mean they currently get that but as you review the. 03:07:38
The legal and fiscal impact. 03:07:44
The ability for government entities to get. 03:07:47
Tax exempt loan. 03:07:51
Has been discussed and has the potential to disappear here in the next. 03:07:54
Short while it's been, it's been discussed more and more frequently. 03:07:58
And so it may not be a thing of the future. Eric, I understand what you're saying. Here's my question. I'm going to put a point of 03:08:02
order for a second. I know, I know you did. And I'm trying to keep us legally safe. Just hold on one second. 03:08:10
I need to Jamie, I need a clarity on this so Eric's answered answering these questions that the. 03:08:17
Council is talking about but. 03:08:25
I feel like we're moving away from. 03:08:27
I mean, do you still feel like we're around the discussion? That's acceptable and OK. 03:08:31
Yeah, I don't. I think it's up to you. 03:08:36
Where you what you want the. 03:08:39
This work session to go on discussion what I want. I want to make sure we're not crossing. 03:08:41
No, I think you all, as members of the Council, can. 03:08:50
Freely debate these kinds of things. There are some of the questions that are now starting to be asked where I would say at least 03:08:55
for my part. 03:09:00
There's a reason you have bond Council and it's because I'm a city attorney and by definition a generalist and not a specialist 03:09:05
on. 03:09:09
On bonds. 03:09:13
And so there are some of the questions about. 03:09:14
Geo bonds visa vie these that. 03:09:17
You know, I've I've explained my understanding of it and if you want to go deeper than that. 03:09:20
I think I'd probably recommend you. 03:09:24
Bond Council and then they can provide that answer and they also could provide. 03:09:26
Some of the information about what's happening politically, nationally. 03:09:32
That, you know, might. 03:09:37
Pose a risk if you delay. 03:09:39
This type of bonding decision for a year, OK, if tax policy changes. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that we run right round 03:09:42
the question. 03:09:46
Yeah, if we're getting a private mortgage and we're going to take out a $32 million loan roughly we're going to be paying 90 03:09:51
million and I'll and obviously because we're taking out a, a bond. 03:09:57
Roughly, you know it's 32 and our interest rate is 46, so it's 14,000,000. I think that's all. 03:10:03
Or, sorry, 12 million. 03:10:10
I think 14,000,000 is a lot in interest. 03:10:12
And also the last point to your point of. 03:10:15
It increases by 6% for building. 03:10:17
Our our sales tax increases just about that as well. Our revenue does. So their building costs go up, but our sales tax ratio goes 03:10:20
up. 03:10:25
About the thing. 03:10:30
And so it doesn't get worse. It's not like our sales tax stays the same and building costs go up and it makes it harder. 03:10:31
They both kind of like as the notion. 03:10:37
Balance out for the most part so. 03:10:40
I'm still spending more even if we're bringing. Did you have something to respond to on that but I'm misunderstanding you? But 03:10:42
that was a really weird way to look at it. 03:10:46
I would just point out that it's. 03:10:50
On an $18 million bond. 03:10:53
A OH .05% distinction from A. 03:10:56
From a Geo to a sales tax bond is $9000. 03:10:59
Every year. 03:11:03
In total. 03:11:04
In total? In total. 03:11:06
So we'll still be paying 8 million though, right? 03:11:11
8 or 9 million in total interest. 03:11:13
On the loan. 03:11:16
How are we going to go from? 03:11:18
12 million in interest to. 03:11:20
Total interest. 03:11:24
I think that's because the bond parameters were at 35,000,000, so you were looking at a theoretical maximum, right? And now we're 03:11:26
talking no. 03:11:30
I heard that we're going down to somewhere between 60 1/2 to 18 1/2. 03:11:35
So we've cut that less than half. 03:11:39
So 18. 03:11:41
OK. So now we're at 6 million in interest. 03:11:43
And of that 6,000,000, we're talking about $9000 being the difference. 03:11:46
Still 6 million in interest though. But Jake, not all of us buy our houses of cash. Most city like a lot. 03:11:52
I get what you're saying. Like I understand that we need to have all the numbers. I just think it's kind of. 03:12:02
Like it's an opportunist. 03:12:09
Opportunistic way to argue your point. 03:12:11
Like when, when cities, when we go through that list of sales tax revenue bonds and he's listing all the amounts of. 03:12:15
That these different cities and organizations went to bond for. He's saying what they actually went to bond for, not what they 03:12:21
ended up paying in the end. And so I think you're just trying and. 03:12:25
You have your right to sell it the way you want to sell it, but I think that you're creating so much. 03:12:30
You're like trying to make. 03:12:37
A standard type thing, the fact that like you should be celebrating, you've been frustrated that it's up to 35 million and now 03:12:39
we're talking about up to 18.5 and it's like. 03:12:44
That's really cool that we like we took and we acknowledged that maybe we shouldn't do the library there and the library board, 03:12:49
that's how they agree we took it where we're not doing the least out space and that's something that you have been really 03:12:55
frustrated with and a lot of your supporters and then we've made it more practical so that we're not. 03:13:01
They were being more practical with our space. 03:13:06
It just to me is just really. 03:13:09
It's a bummer that you don't celebrate any part of that. You're just like, oh, well, now I just how can I make it sound higher? 03:13:12
How can I make it sound higher? And I was doing the interest before on the 32 and I'm doing the interest amount. And that's, 03:13:18
you're right. And I'm glad that you're logical with the numbers, but it's just not all of us can afford to put cash down on a 03:13:24
house. And so I think the way you look at things is a little different than the way I look at things. 03:13:30
Look at things and I don't know if it's logical with the numbers not to be rude. I think it's a assumption. It's like a black and 03:13:36
white of. 03:13:40
What might be when we pay it back, how we pay it back, we might pay more, we don't actually know. This is a conservative estimate 03:13:44
where we're doing 1% for all sales tax increase, which over the last. 03:13:51
X amount of years to spend an average of 39% sales tax increase and we're already down to 1%. That's how we're measuring it. Is 03:13:58
that the most conservative? 03:14:03
Percentage. 03:14:08
And so when when I want to be really clear that just throwing out those numbers and not actually knowing. 03:14:09
What we'll be able to do but saying that we can do this. 03:14:16
Is pretty remarkable. There's a. There's a big difference in what you're saying and what is. 03:14:20
Going to happen and and in government finance to to have a bond that has a. 03:14:25
Certain payment amount every year makes it much easier for a city to be able to. 03:14:32
To navigate and to. 03:14:38
Control the expenditures. 03:14:41
Instead of just like saving well this year we can save 500,000, next year we can save 250. 03:14:43
This gives them. 03:14:50
A way to put it in the budget so it makes sense and so it it balances the budget every year. Not only that, but you were talking 03:14:51
about compromising a bunch of our opportunities in the future, what we'll be able to do with our essential services and police. 03:14:58
And you were saying we're not going to have any money in the future. But this is one of the reasons why you go through these 03:15:04
financing processes and pay things over time so that you can manage your budget. 03:15:10
Wisely and according to who's coming, how things are growing. 03:15:17
Are we, if you really were going to compare apples to apples with somebody like Orem and say, OK, we've been in Crown Basement, 03:15:21
shared office space, working out of multiple facilities, having our stuff in trailers, all of these things and saying how many 03:15:28
times did other communities expand their buildings? 03:15:35
Take out different ponds, build multiple facilities. None of this is being accounting. 03:15:42
Accounted for in any of these discussions. 03:15:47
And now we're talking about a city next to us that is so big. 03:15:50
And at a very different. 03:15:55
Set of part of their journey. We're early on. We're at this place where we cannot survive. Inside of this, we need to do something 03:15:57
different. We've been extremely creative. 03:16:03
And now we're saying, look at. 03:16:10
The way that we're able to do this, not burdening our tax, not burdening our citizens not. 03:16:12
Umm, making it so they won't have their sensible services, rather protecting their essential services. 03:16:19
And we're doing it in a really thoughtful way. 03:16:25
And it's been something we've been planning for a long time. 03:16:28
And you're not accounting for that in these discussions. 03:16:31
I, I would, I would definitely say this has been a happy meeting in terms of seeing it come down and I can totally be corrected on 03:16:35
that and, and I'm grateful. 03:16:40
Hold on a point of clarity to that point. 03:16:46
Just a point of clarity on that. 03:16:49
For the whole Council. 03:16:51
Take the win, not about coming down. I think this is important to know. 03:16:53
$35 million is the bond parameter. Everybody has to understand this. 03:16:58
This is about honing in on the actual costs. 03:17:06
And so we have to clarify those two points inside this discussion. 03:17:10
And it is nice that we're talking about more realistic numbers right now. 03:17:14
And it is a win, but I don't want us to get lost. 03:17:20
In that because it has been a point of confusion. 03:17:25
I don't think it's been confusion. I think people understand that. 03:17:29
You know, hey, this is a total credit line possibilities we're going to ask for this much and it could be a little bit less. 03:17:32
That's the confusion that that that isn't the accuracy. What you just said is not accurate. 03:17:39
It wasn't like, oh, we could, we could do this. 03:17:44
And now we're going to go down. It's up. 03:17:48
We said we had a bond parameter and we wanted to go get you and everybody the number. 03:17:50
Of what it actually would cost, just that we would be OK if the city ever thought to take out 35, not that it was actually going 03:17:56
to be 35. 03:18:00
You know I was. 03:18:04
I understand when you guys say we can make a payment. I've heard that a lot at dealerships. I I get it. 03:18:07
But what? But I was having a conversation with Mayor Young. 03:18:14
This week. 03:18:17
And he calls me and he goes. 03:18:18
You guys have four times your property tax rate. 03:18:20
He wanted to learn about MAG and all of that. 03:18:23
And he goes, how are you guys even conceivably thinking about that? And I'm like. 03:18:26
And that's where I'm coming from, is I'm coming from A. 03:18:31
I'm hearing that people are just. 03:18:37
Our water, our sewer and our property taxes are so high. 03:18:40
That they are. 03:18:44
This, and I hate to say this, but we are the poor kid on the block. We do not have the tax base of all of these surrounding 03:18:46
cities. 03:18:50
And so nor do we spend what they are spent, right. We have 12 million, they have 152 million, right. But that's what I'm saying 03:18:54
is, is the size and scope of this is still so large. 03:19:00
That I am hearing from. 03:19:06
I've done lots of roundtables on this. 03:19:09
3 to 5 million and that solves our staffing problem. 03:19:12
Like it's a problem 8 to 10 years. Yeah, no, we did that. But we're. So here's the thing, we can't. 03:19:16
We can't 100% predict growth and I feel like well and before that I don't even think that 3.5 million is. 03:19:24
I don't think his practicers, I don't think he's still, but listen. 03:19:32
You're saying 3.5 million? 03:19:36
Which would basically build like. 03:19:39
A big house. 03:19:41
And what we have now, you're not going to get like office space for what we actually need. And then you might maybe we just go 03:19:43
super frugal, super practical like. 03:19:48
Awesome. Let's you know, put. 03:19:53
You know little band aids here on a brand new project. 03:19:55
Like I just don't see that as feasible and it's instructive to our services. But what I'm trying to say, Jake, is. 03:19:59
We looked a lot of our problems in Vineyard have to do with how fast we grew and we tried to plan for something like our water 03:20:07
tank or our public works building or even this facility. We plan for things and then we're like, oh crap, five years later it's 03:20:11
not big enough. 03:20:16
Or even it's completed and Oh my gosh, we're not going to have to build another one of these. Or when this was completed, we had 03:20:21
to immediately expand it. 03:20:25
Yeah. So what I'm trying to say, Jake, is. 03:20:29
I it's not you're not planning ahead for the future. I just, it's just. 03:20:31
I had a great story from Councilmember Christian the other day where he walks in and he doesn't like it when you bring up his 03:20:36
name. 03:20:39
He doesn't have to. I just heard the story. I don't know. He can like it or not like it. Trump. Trump or Obama or whoever. 03:20:42
Told the story about a newlywed couple coming in and saying I got to come in and buy a $4000 home and they're like but no I'm 03:20:48
going to have 4 kids and he goes. 03:20:52
Great. 03:20:56
When you guys get one or two, get out of your starter home. This right here. 16.5 versus 35, I feel like we're meeting the middle. 03:20:57
The metal stuff that you're talking, his story was instead of needing a big custom home. 03:21:06
Let's get into something in between and I have been working really hard with staff. 03:21:14
Everyone has been working really hard with staff to take it from Custom 35,000,000 with retail space or not retail with leased out 03:21:20
office space and a library and all these things. 03:21:25
And then now it's 16.5 to 18.5 and I'm like we found are in between and you can't like thank you for acknowledging that that is 03:21:31
good. But it's like. 03:21:37
It's never good enough, and that's why I feel like it's kind of hard to work with you sometimes. I'm not the, I'm not the 03:21:43
referendum sponsors. I'm just I'm, I'm, I'm helping you understand their logic. Jake, that was a really funny statement. I know 03:21:47
you're not the referendum sponsor. 03:21:52
I know you're not the referendum or not, they're not doing that. 03:21:58
We're gonna go with that story. 03:22:02
And say hey, if you're a young couple and you don't buy a house for when you've got your 4 kids. 03:22:04
We're already a couple with 10 kids and we've got a trailer out front and we've got kids living in there and we've got a tent in 03:22:11
the backyard and we can't parent them because they're in another facility. They can't come to dinner. 03:22:19
No one is known as arguing about not getting and sizing up to another big home. 03:22:27
And it's doable to get to the thighs and I, I just, I'm just trying to help you guys. I know they're not here. I think it would be 03:22:31
a great. 03:22:34
Conversational discussion to bring them in during the public comment period in a month. 03:22:37
Yes, they'll have that opportunity and I look forward to the public hearing. I want community buying on this. I don't think I know 03:22:41
better than our community. What I'm trying to say is I want to share facts. 03:22:47
I want to share reasonable information all. 03:22:53
All the information and then I want everyone to look at it and go. 03:22:55
You know what? I still think this. 03:22:59
This project's not great and I can't get behind it. Or, you know, actually this is more reasonable. I think it makes sense. 03:23:01
Quit calling it something it's not, and I actually will support it. But what I what I find really difficult and why we have such a 03:23:08
hard time in our city getting along is because everybody, everybody. I'm not saying just one side or the other, but I just feel 03:23:15
like we're always going, we're over here and we're over here. And I'm just trying to say, let's come together and talk logic. And 03:23:22
if we're all in the same reality and we're all in the same headspace and we still disagree. 03:23:29
Then let's go from there. 03:23:36
But I just feel like you're you've kind of got this agenda where we have this really cool. 03:23:38
Success of getting this down South much lower and you're like let's tear this down tear it down tear it down tear it down and it's 03:23:43
like can we just. 03:23:47
For a minute, come to the table and think about. 03:23:51
Some kind of collaboration, and I just don't feel like we get that from you. 03:23:55
So how many of you guys talked about shrinking it down with any of the? 03:23:59
Referendum sponsors. 03:24:04
That I've talked to several residents. The referendum sponsors are not my only right or any residents #2 I've talked to several. 03:24:05
But shrinking it shrink, shrinking it down. 03:24:10
I want to talk about this as a a longer conversation. This isn't a reactive thing that's happening. I'm sure that people are here 03:24:16
are having conversations in their own time with those people because everybody here has been very collaborative. 03:24:25
This is a multi year project. 03:24:35
Where we have been looking at houses, trailers, multiple facilities, we've been renting out other spaces, we're sharing our 03:24:38
conference rooms. 03:24:43
There, this has been going on of. 03:24:48
Can all of the things that you're bringing to the table, that's where we've been. That's where we've been starting. That's how 03:24:51
we've been growing. That's why we're all over the place. That's why there's so many people in different rooms. That's why there's 03:24:55
a guy sitting in the printer alcove. 03:25:00
That is what we're doing. 03:25:05
And so it's not that we don't want to be fiscally conservative. 03:25:07
It's not that we're not taking the time to think what do these people want? 03:25:11
Everybody up here lives here and doesn't want. 03:25:15
To spend our money frivolously. 03:25:18
And so you can be rest assured that people are talking. 03:25:21
When I take the time to go and look on Facebook, on multiple pages, you're all having conversations. Nobody up here. 03:25:25
Is not having conversations with people. 03:25:32
And coming up with an idea and sharing their plans and having people send them their drawings. 03:25:35
We've been looking at engineering costs any way that we can make it. 03:25:40
More affordable to our people, We do it. 03:25:45
And one of the ways that we did this is. 03:25:49
You can see it with the fire station, you'll be able to see it with this building and the longevity that we come up with in the 03:25:52
end will be good and we hope. 03:25:55
That when we start with all the facts on the same page, that we make the right decision and that it is not. 03:25:59
And that we come to the table. 03:26:05
Do you guys really want to keep going? 03:26:07
OK. 03:26:10
OK. 03:26:12
Senate of Budget. 03:26:14
So any could we? 03:26:17
Is there any appetite for anyone to put a stay for the 45 days? 03:26:19
And I'm going to bring it back to you. 03:26:54
Sorry, I saw him getting a little whiplashed up. He changed gears so quick that I'm trying to. 03:27:06
Get this pulled up. 03:27:10
Can you hear me now? 03:27:12
OK. Sorry, I think everyone's pretty aware of the budget process. We started in February with the council retreat where we came up 03:27:15
with our strategic goals. 03:27:20
Since that time, each department is met with the finance department and requested everything that they needed for their 03:27:26
departments. 03:27:29
And then we came together as a budget committee. This year is the first year we have actually had a budget committee. 03:27:33
And it is the mayor and council member. 03:27:39
Klassen, Eric, myself. 03:27:42
Naseem, who is our public works director, and Morgan, who is our community development director. 03:27:45
So the budget that I have presented to the council tonight is what we have come up with so far. We need, what we need to have is 03:27:50
additional review from council members. 03:27:56
So the reason we are presenting this two weeks before I was initially going to give the tentative budget. 03:28:02
Is so that the Council can look at what we've put together so far. 03:28:07
We will be scheduling meetings one-on-one with each of the council members. 03:28:11
Where we can do a deep dive answer any questions that they have. 03:28:15
And look at suggestions for projects that we need to include or exclude. So that is what's brought us to this point. 03:28:19
I'm sorry, that was really quick and dirty. 03:28:27
On the slide I have just pulled up a couple of projects. 03:28:30
So that the citizens are aware of what we are talking about in the budget. 03:28:34
So there's a couple slides here that show the capital projects fund and what our plans are for this year. 03:28:38
I did want to mention that some of our projects are tied to grant fund. 03:28:45
And we will not hear about the grants for sure until the end of May. So some of those are tied to grant funds and maybe cut just 03:28:50
if we don't get the grant. 03:28:53
I think we have three different projects. 03:28:59
That are in that situation. 03:29:01
OK, perfect. So. 03:29:03
What I'm hearing, Christy is. 03:29:05
Here's a capital projects list. 03:29:07
For our residents to just look at really quick. 03:29:11
And. 03:29:13
Pay attention to can you go back to that other slide? 03:29:14
Pay attention to. 03:29:18
Umm. 03:29:23
You have documents that you can review and start scheduling your meetings. 03:29:24
With Christie and Eric. 03:29:30
So that you are prepared. 03:29:33
To accept the tentative budget, by law we have to accept it on May 14th. 03:29:35
You need to have all of your questions for accepting it. Now we're not adopting it. 03:29:40
Or accepting it right And then you will have. 03:29:46
Multiple weeks, almost 8 weeks. 03:29:49
6 to 8 weeks to go through and ask all of your questions, make changes, we'll bring it back to the public. 03:29:52
But you need to be prepared. 03:30:00
Each council person has to take that on. 03:30:02
To make sure that you can accept it on the 14th. 03:30:06
OK, umm. 03:30:09
And if I could add 1 little clarity. 03:30:10
Accepting it is. 03:30:14
Very akin to the UPS man showing up at your door with the signature required. 03:30:16
And you sign it, and then you take it and you open it up inside you. 03:30:21
Inspect what's in it. 03:30:24
You're not. You're not suggesting that you approve anything that's in it. You're not accepting the numbers. You're simply 03:30:25
accepting that it's now in your hands. You've received it. You've received it. 03:30:29
OK, it's getting late. Let's accept it. 03:30:33
OK, let's see. 03:30:36
That brings us to public comments. 03:30:38
If anybody has any public comments, please raise your hand so I can see how many there are. 03:30:43
There's three. OK, come on up. 03:30:48
Do you mind sharing yours during your council member report? 03:30:52
I'm a citizen on this one, OK? 03:30:55
I have so many notes scattered around my. 03:31:00
Hey, note Terry Ewing and I'm Terry. 03:31:03
And I'm from the. 03:31:06
And I just have to say at the start, you guys. 03:31:09
Started this mess. 03:31:12
Every one of you responsible for throwing out. 03:31:14
That $35 million bond. 03:31:17
And explaining how you had gone through and validated it was a great. 03:31:20
Estimate and where you got it from and we were all OK. 03:31:25
Right, 35 million. 03:31:28
So what did? 03:31:31
The whole people that are watching, listening. 03:31:32
Everybody here has been talking about a $35 million bond since you started this. 03:31:37
And now you're going to blame somebody else for not being happy because. 03:31:43
Tonight we find out without. 03:31:47
The rest of the community even knowing that it could be half. 03:31:50
I don't think that's fair. 03:31:54
Umm, you talk about costs going up in three years Because if we wait. 03:31:56
When you were talking, you already said the statement. We've been talking about building this for years. 03:32:01
Why didn't you start saving? 03:32:08
What happened to that? 03:32:11
Not a, not a cent. 03:32:13
And then the other thing that annoyed me the first time I saw it was that list of ponds. 03:32:16
When LRB posted them in here for our presentation. 03:32:22
They even have the discussion while those who weren't all tax revenue bonds. 03:32:27
And they were right. 03:32:31
It wasn't. 03:32:33
And to compare. 03:32:34
Our tax revenue bond. 03:32:38
With a State of Utah bond. 03:32:40
A Department of Transportation bond. A Salt Lake City bond. 03:32:43
A county bond. 03:32:49
It's not right. 03:32:51
That's not comparing apples to apples. 03:32:52
OK. 03:32:55
You still don't have plans. 03:33:00
And I'm familiar enough. 03:33:03
With construction to know. 03:33:04
If you guys don't have a clue. 03:33:06
Until you get the biz. 03:33:08
You got to send out. 03:33:10
And we don't know. I mean, they weren't, we were told they weren't even going to have them finished until July. 03:33:14
Now according. 03:33:19
Update here tonight. It might be even longer. 03:33:21
But when LRB was here and you voted yes. 03:33:25
That that was, I believe. 03:33:30
Gave them the right to go out or the trigger to go out and start selling bonds. 03:33:33
How are they going to sell a bond if they don't? If it's. 03:33:41
A difference between 1618 million and 35 million. 03:33:44
Who's going to you? Don't buy bonds on chance. 03:33:49
Maybe. 03:33:53
The last thing? 03:33:58
Maybe a last thing. 03:34:00
The fire station. And what a great fire station it is. 03:34:03
I went down to the Provo fire station. I was taking a bunch of seven-year olds on a trip. 03:34:06
And. 03:34:12
They have a ladder truck. 03:34:14
They have an EMT vehicle. They have a water truck. 03:34:16
They have another emergency rescue thing. 03:34:19
And we don't have a room for a water for a ladder truck, but yet we're building 4 and five story buildings here. 03:34:24
Plus they say, well we might be able they have a letter we might be able to get. 03:34:32
Four stories if there was a fire up there, but it depends on how close to the building we can get. 03:34:37
And we don't even have. 03:34:42
A ladder truck. 03:34:43
So there's just so many things that I just. 03:34:46
Hear all this going on? 03:34:51
It's just. 03:34:52
Who's going to go back to the city? 03:34:55
And now try and sell, it's going to be an $18 million bond. 03:34:57
We still don't have a fit. We have no idea. 03:35:01
And furthermore, when I think about it. 03:35:05
You said we didn't even eat a whole floor. 03:35:07
But we're building 4. 03:35:12
I think that's all I need. 03:35:17
Can I just make a request? I'm not responding. I would love to talk to you after because I think there's a lot of things that you. 03:35:18
Aren't aware of it, could clarify. 03:35:26
With fire stations. 03:35:29
And things like that. So I would really like to help. I'm cool with the fireplace station in where it is. That's fine. No, no, 03:35:31
with having a ladder. You can address her afterwards, but yes, OK, that was. 03:35:38
Minor compared to the rest of this. Well, I would still like to talk to you to make sure you understand what we have and don't 03:35:45
have, OK? 03:35:48
All right. Thank you, Terry. 03:35:53
Next, Daria. Thank you. 03:35:55
Umm, I've waited. 03:36:00
3 1/2 hours to say thank you. 03:36:03
I would, I would appreciate it. Oh, Daria Evans Villas. Thank you. 03:36:06
I would appreciate it if we did work sessions after public comments. 03:36:11
Because then you guys can argue and do what you need to do and. 03:36:16
I can go home, go to bed. 03:36:21
I just want to say nothing. You are awesome. 03:36:25
Where'd you go? Oh, there you are. 03:36:28
He is really good, he is really awesome. He always answers my questions thoroughly and I appreciate him. 03:36:31
First off also I'm glad that you're not doing the timer since I've waited so long, so thank you. 03:36:39
I am glad to. 03:36:44
I'm very happy that the take back expired no longer used medication day. 03:36:49
At City Hall with a success, I'm glad that Jane Pierce asked me to help her distribute Flyers along with. 03:36:54
Eric, Eric and Cindy Walker. 03:37:01
Yes. Umm. 03:37:04
It was really good and it was a success and I'm thankful for that. 03:37:05
I want to give a shout out. 03:37:09
Thanks to Deputy Ryan and Deputy Stilson. 03:37:11
For helping keep the children safe at the crosswalks at 400 N and Main St. 03:37:14
The sewer repair and Rd. reconstruction have caused some scary situations for our crossing guards. 03:37:20
I was with Heather, the crossing guard, yesterday, Tuesday. 03:37:28
And I asked her how it went to day. 03:37:32
If I may, I would like to read her responses. 03:37:34
Yes, Deputy Stilson stayed with us both shifts. He was awesome. 03:37:46
Especially needed during the morning drive time shift. 03:37:51
When the arrow light turned yellow and cars wanted to flip AU turn, he would step out into the road and justice pointed at them to 03:37:54
keep going. 03:37:59
It was great. 03:38:03
Yesterday was my only stressful day on the corner in eight months. Today was actually entertaining. 03:38:04
That day before I saw. 03:38:12
Cars through EU turn in the crosswalk while the children are on the corner and they're making 3 point turns. It was very 03:38:15
dangerous. Also, cement trucks had done that, according to her. 03:38:20
OK. 03:38:25
And then also, she says yesterday Deputy Ryan came and met with us at the end of the morning shift. 03:38:27
To see what we needed. 03:38:33
I believe he's the one who ordered the setting up of all the cones so that they couldn't take U turns. 03:38:34
And then he sent deputies still soon to check on us and he could see what was happening and he stayed the entire time helping 03:38:40
direct traffic and keeping our kids safe. 03:38:45
Deputy still since that he will be back in the morning. 03:38:51
Tomorrow. 03:38:54
So thank them, that's very good. I really am grateful because. 03:38:54
That's our future and. 03:39:01
These people are just a little. 03:39:04
Out of sorts, they're just maniacs on the road. 03:39:07
And it's very scary. 03:39:11
And. 03:39:13
Then I'd just like to. 03:39:15
Say that. Oh. 03:39:22
Yeah, I was very happy. 03:39:24
To learn that Utah City is planning for schools. I learned about that in April. 03:39:25
And I was glad that. 03:39:30
Nate gave us more information on that tonight. 03:39:32
That schools are coming. 03:39:35
And also the churches. A church building is coming. 03:39:37
I have a couple of questions and concerns. 03:39:41
I'm wondering about the Vineyard Beach shoreline improvement plan. 03:39:44
Has FFSL completed their review yet? 03:39:48
We're at a 3.6 million grant for that currently. And when will it expire? 03:39:53
The city has started talking about this improvement since July of 2033 for grading and trail improvement. 03:40:00
And then my last concern was. 03:40:08
I'm concerned that the notice on April 3rd about the proposed City Hall total bond amount. 03:40:11
Was not shared during the special session. 03:40:18
46,000,000 That is more than what was talked about during the Council meeting. 03:40:21
I wish. 03:40:27
That that notice was here and that you had. 03:40:28
Given it to us. 03:40:32
Because that would have cleared up a lot of things. 03:40:33
Instead of finding out after the fact. Thank you. 03:40:36
What she was saying was. 03:40:43
On April 3rd, we spoke about the bond parameters and because they understand the numbers of building costs. 03:40:46
In correlation to them, they wish they knew the building cost. 03:40:54
But they were focused on the bond parameters because we were passing the resolution for the bond parameters. So there's two things 03:40:58
happening. 03:41:02
Where? 03:41:06
It was posted on the bulletin. Hold on one second, Daria, do you want to go ahead and clarify what you're saying? 03:41:08
Yes, please. 03:41:13
On the bulletin board. 03:41:15
Daria Evans. 03:41:19
Phyllis, on the bulletin board out there is the. 03:41:20
Parameters what the total cost of the bond with the interest was which would be up to 46,000,000 if that 35. 03:41:25
Pass. And I wish that you had presented that in the meeting. Where is that documentary? And you you saw the number 46? 03:41:32
OK. 03:41:44
Maybe we can clarify that with somebody so that we can understand. I just wish that you had. 03:41:45
Presented it at this special session of Council on April 3rd. You just talked about 35,000,000. Hold on. Just just so we 03:41:53
understand what Gary is talking about. I'm sorry, can you pull it up, Pam? 03:41:58
OK, I got it right here. 03:42:05
It's on the filter board. 03:42:10
That was the public notice that was sent out. And then you're right, I don't know if we to everyone. 03:42:15
Of bond parameters. 03:42:22
OK, see things you wish we would have talked about all of it. Just like how tonight we talked about how it's important to know all 03:42:25
the numbers. So wait a second, come back to the microphone. What did you want us to talk about? I just wanted to this presented. 03:42:31
At the meeting, it was posted April 3rd, the day of the meeting and nobody said the whole thing. 03:42:37
And nobody said, no one said it, nobody said what, nobody said this. That would be up to 46 million. 03:42:42
OK. 03:42:50
You didn't talk about all of the numbers. 03:42:52
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm getting upset. I'm tired. 03:42:56
Karen Cornelius Villas. 03:43:00
I agree we need to have this public discussion before. 03:43:03
But there's there's a few things here on my list. 03:43:06
I don't know why I've been to so many meetings, but this is the first time I've heard of the three million that we are 03:43:10
contributing. All I've ever heard is we were contributing 1,000,000 to plan. 03:43:15
Thought half a million was coming from MAG. 03:43:21
And where is this other 1.5 million coming from? I've never heard of it. 03:43:25
We were always told there was number cash, it was going to be a total bond. 03:43:29
So this is really disconcerting. 03:43:34
To learn this and I feel like this meeting tonight only happened because we have started the referendum process. 03:43:37
And it makes it look like you guys need to come to terms with a with a smaller number. 03:43:44
That's fine. 03:43:50
But I want to know why we have never heard. 03:43:52
About that 1.5 million. 03:43:54
Another thing that really bothers me. 03:43:58
Is when Sarah held her. 03:44:00
Umm, town halls. And she gave only facts. 03:44:04
One of the facts probably is coming back to bite you, and that was the fact that we only need 20% of that floor space. 03:44:07
For our employees and for our. 03:44:14
City Services. 03:44:17
Why in the heck do we need 4 floors when we only need 20% a half a floor? 03:44:19
For city staff. 03:44:26
This is really concerning to citizens. 03:44:27
We don't have this kind of money to throw away. I don't know anybody in today's economy that has that kind of money to throw away. 03:44:31
And if we in fact do get the sales tax for projecting. 03:44:36
Think of the wonderful things we could do if it's not all going to 1 building. 03:44:42
Think of the things that we could do in our community. 03:44:46
For our citizens, For our staff. 03:44:49
We don't have to waste it all in one place. 03:44:51
For one grand place. 03:44:55
That is going to be a monument to someone. 03:44:57
And that's how it feels. 03:45:00
Another problem I have is. 03:45:02
In the paperwork that we got from the city. 03:45:04
Accepting our referendum. 03:45:07
There's a fiscal impact part from Jamie. 03:45:09
And I just want to clarify. 03:45:13
That there is not an expense on there. 03:45:15
That we, the citizens own. 03:45:18
You have known for months. 03:45:20
Perhaps even years. 03:45:22
That this was going to be a hard pill for us to swallow, but you have moved ahead. 03:45:24
You have spent money and you have incurred costs and do not come back and say. 03:45:28
That these costs are a result of anything that we did, because they are not. 03:45:34
They are not, and I want that to be clear. 03:45:39
OK, I understand. 03:45:43
Umm. 03:45:45
The other thing I want to know. 03:45:52
Is I've heard. 03:45:54
To night many times that we have an MOU. 03:45:55
With Mag. 03:45:58
When will we see a contract? 03:46:00
I keep hearing about. 03:46:03
If when we hope, we expect. 03:46:05
But when will we still contract? 03:46:08
That is a big deal with respect to this going through. 03:46:10
Right, Sarah, it's a big deal. 03:46:15
I don't know how. How long do you want us to expect? 03:46:19
To accept an MOU. 03:46:22
We need to know that they are in this for dollars and cents, not just a great understanding and a handshake. 03:46:25
We need more than that. 03:46:31
So that's my concerns tonight. Thank you. 03:46:33
My name is Jake Holdaway, resident Holdaway Rd. 03:46:44
I'm coming to stand before you guys because I feel like I'm being treated like. 03:46:49
A citizen. 03:46:54
I started in. 03:46:57
November of last year. 03:46:58
When I got a couple of complaints. 03:47:01
From a few employees saying you need to look at the gas and fuel of our city. 03:47:04
It was the same thing that came in. 03:47:10
About. 03:47:12
Traveling the world. 03:47:13
And I was very patient. I went to the right staff. 03:47:14
I went to Eric and said I would like this. 03:47:18
In my first meeting, I was told that point of sale information was not. 03:47:20
Collected by our vendor. 03:47:24
After that, they came back and told the story that they did, but we were going to change vendors. 03:47:27
Then I started down the process. 03:47:33
Of trying to get the Ledger because I knew the information was there. 03:47:35
After not getting the Ledger. 03:47:38
In a public meeting February I came and did that and said I need the Ledger. 03:47:41
I then started the process with the state auditor. 03:47:45
I had to do that. 03:47:48
As a governing board member. 03:47:50
I had to go. 03:47:53
And you guys got a letter saying? 03:47:54
Turn it over. 03:47:56
And we questioned. 03:47:57
A real letter is it? Don't. 03:47:59
It then takes a month 1st to get it. 03:48:01
And then I again waited. 03:48:04
The issue should not be adversarial. I believe that I am acting in good faith to help the citizens to be transparent regarding 03:48:06
their finances. 03:48:10
And I want to remind you that. 03:48:15
Last year when I did, I did the same thing. I had the same person. 03:48:17
Come to me and say you should look for trips overseas. 03:48:21
I was patient. 03:48:25
I didn't play games. 03:48:26
And I just, it's come to a point where. 03:48:28
There are three things that are happening within our city. 03:48:32
The state only allows. 03:48:35
Mandates the city to do three things. 03:48:37
An annual budget, but our annual budget is so high level that there's no detail. 03:48:40
And as long as this governing board. 03:48:45
Is allowed to have a vague, vague budget with high thresholds. We will never know what's in it. 03:48:47
#2. 03:48:53
Our procurement policy is again required by state because our thresholds are so high. 03:48:54
And so vague. 03:49:00
That our mayor and city manager can approve anything under $125,000. That means me as a City Council member and these people as 03:49:01
citizens will never know about it if it's under that threshold. 03:49:07
It's 125,000. 03:49:14
So because of that, again, I'm treated like a citizen. 03:49:16
And then third. 03:49:20
Because of those thresholds, I don't approve anything, so I'm just a citizen. 03:49:21
The restricted access to ledgers. 03:49:25
We have citizens that have asked for the ledgers, but because we. 03:49:28
Have been told we do not remove. 03:49:32
Minor information or citizens information that we've been instructed last year by the state to do so. 03:49:34
One citizen went and asked for the letter themselves and was charged $2000 in order to get it. So then they turn away and don't do 03:49:41
it. Those are the only three things to be transparent. 03:49:46
For our citizens to be able to know what's going on. 03:49:52
And as long as all four of you guys are all in alignment, I'm never going to know and we can delay the five months that I've been 03:49:55
asking to get these past ledgers. 03:49:59
And I'm not accusing that there is something. 03:50:04
But the previous person it was correct. 03:50:06
And I've worked in good faith. 03:50:09
And as a citizen. 03:50:11
Those 3 legged stool of being detailed in our budget, we don't have it. 03:50:14
The procurement code and threshold are so high that I don't even approve anything we've approved. I've approved this. 03:50:21
Snow plow and one other thing. 03:50:27
The vast majority of it. 03:50:29
I will never know if we're traveling the world. 03:50:31
One or two things here or there. 03:50:35
For the travel, I don't even know where we travel around the country. I don't have to know because you guys keep it as travel or 03:50:37
memberships. 03:50:41
Right. It's not on any public record. 03:50:45
No travel. We have no. 03:50:50
Please wait. 03:50:52
Please wait. 03:50:53
Please wait. Please wait. 03:50:54
There's a few things that are in the consent items. Yeah, there's a snow pile for 125,000, right? 03:50:58
OK, go ahead and finish. 03:51:03
I just I just approaches the citizens that it's not illegal because the state allows us to put these policies in to be vague and 03:51:05
non transparent. 03:51:09
But it's upon us to have best. 03:51:13
I if I hear one more time that it's. 03:51:15
Not illegal. 03:51:17
Or is it ethical we should be at the highest level of we want to be the best and if someone asks us for the Ledger we just turn it 03:51:19
over? 03:51:23
For free. 03:51:27
And that we just want it to be available. 03:51:28
And any asset that's over $1000, we're going to bring it before in a report every single month and just disclose this is where 03:51:30
we're traveling, this is what we're doing. 03:51:34
I shouldn't have to fight five months later. 03:51:39
I'm waiting for. 03:51:41
A Fuel report. 03:51:43
I just want to say. 03:51:54
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 03:51:56
I want on behalf of. 03:51:59
Vineyard Cares sponsor to the drug take back. It was very successful and I want to personally, publicly. 03:52:01
Thank concerned citizens and members of the Coalition. 03:52:09
And law enforcement and all those others, It was the best that we've had in the last three years and we've only sponsored it for 03:52:14
three years. 03:52:19
Last thing I want to say is. 03:52:24
Democracy is messy. 03:52:26
This is proof. 03:52:29
But things happen. 03:52:31
When things get messy. 03:52:33
Very often. 03:52:35
Thank you. All right. 03:52:38
I'm going to close the public comments. They're done. 03:52:40
Then I'm going to address some of them. 03:52:43
That I'm going to open up. 03:52:45
Reports at which time you can respond to what just occurred. 03:52:47
OK, Yeah. 03:52:52
Terry, I wanted to address a few of the things that you mentioned. You mentioned that we brought in a $35 million bond and that it 03:52:55
could have been half. And why did we do this? It was very confusing. 03:53:01
I try to make commentary on that tonight that we were talking about bond parameters. 03:53:08
And bond parameters are different than. 03:53:14
The building. 03:53:17
And not only the building, you mentioned 4 floors. 03:53:18
And we talked about tonight how we have different partners on different floors. 03:53:23
And uh. 03:53:29
The different uses for the different floors, we talked about how we have Mount Land Association of Governments is one of them. 03:53:30
Karen brought up the MOU at some point. 03:53:35
And we, we talked about in February how these partners had already approved those funds. I know that you know, because I received 03:53:41
an e-mail, Terry, that you had emailed. 03:53:46
Mountain Land Association of Government. So I recognize and I want to acknowledge there that we do know that those things have 03:53:51
been approved in their public documents. They're more than MO use. 03:53:56
And you can go look the map and we can talk about it. But I, I want to acknowledge it as we talk about this. 03:54:04
And let's see, you talked about how the cost could go up. Why didn't we start saving? We did talk a little bit about this and I 03:54:11
want to address it for the public as a whole. 03:54:16
Each year we have to spend our financing on something very important. 03:54:21
One of the reasons why we are in all of the facilities that we're in. 03:54:26
And we are sharing offices. 03:54:30
And we are doing the things that we're doing to manage our finances is so we could put those finances towards other things that we 03:54:32
were saving towards knowing that we had to take care of our fire station, our water tank facilities, different things that happen 03:54:39
in a community that allow us to grow. 03:54:46
And one of the things that's happening now that we're saying, OK, we've waited long enough. 03:54:53
And in two years, it will be much, much too long. 03:54:58
We are financing now and saying new thing on the priority list that has to come first. 03:55:02
So. 03:55:09
We can have all of the other amazing things that could happen with sales tax. 03:55:10
You have to have the employees to do those things, and we need space for them. They're out of space. So that is what we're doing. 03:55:15
We're prioritizing the space to have police officers and essential civic services here so that we can have the other things. 03:55:22
They weren't all tax revenue bonds. 03:55:31
They were franchise bonds and sales tax revenue funds. So the question is why were we showing them? 03:55:33
That's the real question, the question that was on the table at that time. 03:55:38
Was for the comment was. 03:55:43
Cities don't use sales tax revenue bonds the best. 03:55:45
And so we had LRV generate a list. 03:55:49
Of where cities use sales tax revenue bonds and franchise bonds so that you could see. 03:55:53
That this is a normal way of doing it? 03:55:59
Who's doing it differently? How are they financing it? With what extra additional dollars? It was just so a common use practice 03:56:03
and I think it's important to bring it back to that. 03:56:08
Still don't have plans? 03:56:14
We have been planning. We just talked about the CMG, the CNGC part of that planning. 03:56:16
And we talked about the real numbers that can be taken from. 03:56:23
The comparables, we went through those numbers and maybe we can put something that's more concise that people can read back 03:56:27
through at the end of this. 03:56:30
You talked about a ladder truck. We are a multi city service area, so our ladder truck might not be housed here, but it's housed. 03:56:35
In our cooperative. 03:56:43
And we are building in order to have our people. 03:56:45
Closer to home, so that our timing can serve the people that we need. 03:56:51
And when we need a ladder truck? 03:56:55
Or when we need places to house it, we will build those facilities as we're required or we will bring them from other areas. But 03:56:57
we do have what we need, so. 03:57:02
I think it would be prudent to go and sit with some of our staff and learn about what is all what are multi city. 03:57:07
Cooperation does and how we're served and why we think it's a really good plan. 03:57:13
Let's see, I just don't want to forget some of the things. 03:57:19
Still don't have plans? Oh, you were under the impression that we gave them the ability to go sell the bombs. We approved the 03:57:23
resolute resolution. 03:57:27
Everybody commented on that. 03:57:31
And then? 03:57:33
A vote was put into the resolution. 03:57:34
That said, before they saw the. 03:57:37
They will come back here and administratively get an up or down vote. 03:57:40
So you can't actually move forward and sell the bonds. 03:57:44
Until that has occurred, and we added that in, that was a stipulation that came from this discussion and Marty brought up that she 03:57:49
wanted to see something and we all together came up with a plan to be able to do that. 03:57:54
Daria, thank you for all of your comments. There was something on it that I wanted to address. 03:58:01
Umm, I will go ahead and. 03:58:09
Oh, the shoreline, You had a question about the shoreline. I think it would be good to go ahead and connect with Eric and he can 03:58:11
give you updates on the shoreline and. 03:58:15
Actor. That's good. 03:58:20
I mean, you could, you could go ahead and do it right now if you want to, just briefly, yeah. 03:58:22
So the status of the Shoreline project. 03:58:27
Is that we just barely got a. 03:58:30
A response back and forth through fire and state lands. We submitted the toe of slope. 03:58:32
Line meander line. 03:58:37
About six weeks ago and they are still reviewing it. 03:58:39
So I guess what Eric is really saying is we have submitted plans, we are ready to go. The permitting process is along with FSL, 03:58:44
but together we are going in there and we are very aggressive with saying, hey, let's go, our people are ready, we're ready. So on 03:58:49
our side. 03:58:54
Every all of the check boxes are crossed out and checked in all the things. And I would also add that we got an extension of 18 03:59:00
months or so on. 03:59:04
The duration of that, yeah. So don't worry about that. But we are trying if you want to, maybe we'll join our little group and we 03:59:09
can all go and talk about permitting at the state. 03:59:14
All right, let's see cash financing on the 5th, 25th. 03:59:19
Again, I think. 03:59:24
We've had all of these points. 03:59:26
There, yes. You want Holden to respond to the question about EU turns we have a solution for that, that he could. Yeah, go ahead. 03:59:28
Hold in while I read through this. 03:59:32
No, we just had the famous team went out with I know U-turn sign there. 03:59:37
So that's there. I actually sat there for a little bit before this meeting and made your traffic stops. People are still ignoring 03:59:41
it, but we'll start enforcing that. 03:59:45
Umm. 03:59:48
Yeah, especially while school kids are out. 03:59:52
And then the scene, one of the guys that stopped said, well, Google's telling me to go this way, so they seem to see if he can 03:59:55
work on gate. 03:59:57
Google updated and not tell them to make AU turn there, so we'll keep enforcing it and work OK. Thank you Eric for catching that 04:00:00
one. I didn't even have that on my list. 04:00:05
Karen, I will have Eric and you connect and he can show you where that is. 04:00:11
Of the public documents that you were wondering about an MO UI want you to see where it was voted in. 04:00:16
Let's see. 04:00:22
I think I answered all of your other questions when I was talking to Terry. 04:00:24
And then addressing Terry's concerns, I mean. 04:00:28
And then umm. 04:00:32
What I'm going to do? 04:00:35
Is I'm going to make a statement about in response to Citizen Jake. 04:00:37
And then you guys can make your comments. 04:00:43
Let's see. 04:00:46
From my perspective. 04:00:48
And we all have our different experiences, but from each meeting that I have sat in with you. 04:00:50
And. 04:00:56
Every conversation that we've had publicly. 04:00:57
Every time that you have asked for the letter, you have received it. 04:01:00
When you ask for the vendor to list, you received it. 04:01:04
You have. 04:01:07
Been with a team that has worked in good faith to give you everything that you need. 04:01:09
And the last conversation that we had. 04:01:14
We talked about how we wanted to go to the auditor and hear all of your concerns and we had a meeting with the auditor. 04:01:17
To make sure that we could. 04:01:24
So knew how we've been acting and we as a whole. 04:01:27
The staff definitely have been working at this. 04:01:30
Because they're the people that you're talking about. But. 04:01:35
As a council, I think we've been stating every meeting we want you to have what you need. 04:01:38
And anybody that disagrees with me can speak up when it's your turn. 04:01:44
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