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  • Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at38 PM.             PRESENTATIONS/RECOGNITIONS/AWARDS/PROCLAMATIONS1.   GFOAAwardPresentation FinanceDirector KristieBayleswillpresent theGFOAAwardawarded totheCity.
  • FinanceDirector KristieBaylespresented theGFOAAward and thanked Treasurer Zack Adams and utility Billing Clerk Maria Arteaga for their work on the award document.  2.   Proclamation2025-02-56thAnnualMunicipalClerksWeek AproclamationdeclaringMay4-10,2025,asProfessionalMunicipalClerksWeek  3.   Proclamation2025-03Bike Month Aproclamation declaringMay25asBike Month  4.   Proclamation2025-04BuildingSafetyMonth Aproclamation declaringMay25 asBuilding SafetyMonth  5.   Proclamation2025-05NationalDrinkingWaterWeek Aproclamation declaring May4-10,25, asVineyardCity DrinkingWater Week  6.   Proclamation2025-06NationalPublicWorksWeek AproclamationdeclaringMay18–24,25,asPublicWorksWeek
  • Mayor Fullmer presented the proclamations.  7.   DowntownUpdate PeteEvanswithFlagborough will givean update ontheDowntown development.
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Flagborough.
  • Pete Evans and Nate Hutchinson with Flagborough reviewed the plats and gave an update on the development.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked where people would be parking. Mr. Hutchinson reviewed where the current parking was located.
  • Mayor Fullmer felt these projects were exciting.
  • Councilmember Cameron appreciated the detail on the exterior of the buildings.
  • Mayor Fullmer thanked them for working with other partners on parking issues. Mr. Hutchinson mentioned that they were working with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on church sites as well.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked about schools in the development. Mr. Hutchinson replied that they were working with the school district and charter schools. They hoped to integrate schools into a mixed-use environment.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked for details about the public pool. Mr. Hutchinson explained that the charge and memberships would be similar to other municipalities. They hoped to have Phaseof the area completed by Memorial Day of26.  8.   MemorialBench&TreeProgram MemorialBench & TreeProgram
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Parks and Recreation Director Brian Vawdrey
  • Mr. Vawdrey gave an update on the Memorial Bench and Tree Program.
  • Mayor Fullmer called for comments from the council.
  • Councilmember Clawson asked if the QR code would be linked to a city hosted page. Mr. Vawdrey explained that it would go to the “see my legacy” website. A discussion ensued.
  • Mayor Fullmer commented on the work that had gone into putting this program together.
  • Councilmember Holdaway asked about hosting a landing page on the city’s website instead of having additional software. Mr. Vawdrey explained why he felt that the software was valuable. A discussion ensued. Mayor Fullmer suggested that Councilmember Holdaway work with Mr. Vawdrey on solutions.  9.   UtahCountyMosquitoAbatement Program JasonBirdoftheUtahCountyHealthDepartmentwillpresentinformationonthe25 mosquito abatement.
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to JasonBird with theUtahCountyHealthDepartment.
  • Mr. Birdgave an update on the mosquito abatement program. A discussion ensued.
  • Councilmember Holdaway expressed his appreciation for their program. He asked if they helped cities with putting together a plan for getting rid of breeding sites. Mr. Bird stated that this was an ongoing was ongoing effort. Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour explained that with their partnership with the health                                                                                                                                                 department there were several ways to mitigate mosquitoes.
  • Mayor Fullmer said the city was grateful for their partnership.           WORK SESSION3.1.    ConcessionOfferingsatVineyardGrovePark
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Mr. Vawdrey.
  • Mr. Vawdrey gave a background on the interest in offering concessions at Grove Park. He then reviewed recommended options for offering concessions at Vineyard Grove Park.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked for clarification about the options. Mr. Vawdrey replied that the shacks would only allow one (1) vendor, and the food trucks would allow three (3). A discussion ensued about the options and logistics of setting up concessions.
  • Mayor Fullmer asked about timing for bringing this back to the council for approval. Mr. Vawdrey replied that he would like to bring it back to the council for approval in May. A discussion ensued about how to set up the contracts. Mayor Fullmer suggested that the council reach out Mr. Vawdrey with any additional comments.
  • Councilmember Cameron asked about implementation. Mr. Vawdrey replied that he was hoping to get something going this year.  2.CM/GC-VineyardCenterDesignUpdate PublicWorksDirectorNaseemGhandourwillpresentonCM/GCandtheVineyard Center
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour.
  • Mr. Ghandour gave an update on the CM/GC (Construction Manager/ General Contractor) for the Vineyard Center design process. A discussion ensued.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked Senior Planner Cache Hancey about the changes in the design. Mr. Hancey explained the design process and why there were changes to the design. Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the footprint of the building. Mr. Hancey replied that it might be a little larger, but level four had been adjusted by eliminating the flex office space.
  • Mayor Fullmer asked about the location of the center in comparison to the aquatics center. Mr. Hancey reviewed the locations.
  • Councilmember Holdaway asked when they would have a final cost. Mr. Hancey explained that they could have projected costs sooner than later. City Manager Eric Ellis mentioned that in addition to using the comparable figures, Orem had added an escalation to include any inflation in costs to help anticipate upfront investments and annual costs. A discussion ensued.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked for costs to date. Mr. Ellis explained that the bond estimate would be $16 to $18 million. He gave a breakdown of the current costs for the building: $1.5 million committed to the architecture and engineering project; MAG (Mountainland Association of Governments) will invest $8 million, and the city will invest $3 million they had set aside for the project. He noted that the city’s investments would be $3 million, and MAG would be up to $9 million with a total cost of the entire project, at $28 to $31 million. A discussion ensued.
  • Councilmember Holdaway wanted to clarify that other cities were paying cash. He quoted code that the city had to disclose the total cost to citizens. Mayor Fullmer explained that there were bond parameters and what they financed. It was noted that other cities bond. A discussion ensued. All the dollar amounts were important, but they represent different things. Mr. Ellis pointed out that LRB (Lewis Roberston and Burningham) gathered comparables with cities that had used sales tax revenue bonds. The discussion continued.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked what the consequences would be if they amended the bond parameters and the possible ballot question being for a different amount and if it was an option for the city to put the question on the ballot. City Attorney Blakesly replied that the legislature sets the bonding procedures and the type of bonds which the city was bonding for, which were sales tax and franchise revenue bond. He explained the referendum process. Not a process for the council to put the question on the ballot unless they do a General Obligation (GO) bond. A discussion ensued about GO bonds.
  • Councilmember Clawson called for a point of order as to Councilmember Holdaway’s texting during the discussion. There was a discussion between Councilmembers Clawson and Holdaway regarding the code of conduct. Mayor Fullmer called for a point of order and clarified that the council should not be texting during the meeting.
  • Mr. Blakesley continued his explanation.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the referendum process and the city’s ability to discuss the Vineyard Center project. Mr. Blakesley stated that the general rule was that city resources could not be used to advocate on something that was the subject of a referendum. He said that the city could provide factual information about the public hearing for the bond and the project. He noted that city staff could respond to direct questions about the bond or project. Councilmember Sifuentes asked about using city, or staff prepared resources that had already been provided and if the referendum halted the project. Mr. Blakesley replied that the council could use those types of resources if they were factually correct information but could not ask staff to prepare arguments for advocacy of the bond. He mentioned the Fiscal and Legal impact statement that was created in consultation with the bond counsel.
  • Mr. Blakesley explained the stay process. He noted that the stay would only stay the work on the bond, but the city would have to reconfigure the financing of the project. Councilmember Sifuentes asked for further clarification on the stay. Mr. Blakesley stated that the only item being referred was the bond parameters resolution. A discussion ensued. Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the potential for a city stay on the project. Mr. Ellis pointed out that having the completed plans for the Vineyard Center had a durable value to the city. Councilmember Holdaway disagreed with Mr. Ellis’ statement on the durability of the having completed plans. He added that he would not advocate for a GO bond but felt that the sales tax bond was riskier. He felt that the city should have gotten preapproved for the bond before moving forward with the plans. A discussion ensued. Mayor Fullmer clarified that the city process was to plan first to determine cost and then get the financing. The discussion continued. Councilmember Holdaway commented on how quickly the design of the building had changed at that the library had been removed. Mayor Fullmer explained the design options presented. Councilmember Cameron explained that they wanted the library board to have a say in how to expand the library. Councilmember Holdaway felt that the design was flexible and would change between now and August. Mayor Fullmer reiterated the design process and cost estimates. Councilmember Holdaway suggested they put a stay on the design process and find other solutions for staff expansion and funding mechanisms. Councilmember Sifuentes felt that bonding was smart with inflation; build now and save on future inflation costs. She stated that if they waited and saved, they still would not have enough money. Mr. Ellis explained the cost savings they would produce if they built now and how much they would lose if they waited to build in five (5) years. The discussion continued. Mayor Fullmer felt the reason for starting this project was to incorporate staff who were using tailers and other spaces that they were utilizing along with additional offices outside of city hall. The discussion continued.
  • Mayor Fullmer felt that it would be beneficial for the council to sit down with staff and go through the plan to understand where they were in the design process. Mr. Ellis mentioned that the sales tax bond rate would be .05 percent than a GO Bond and was a nontaxable bond. The discussion continued. Mayor Fullmer called for a point of order and asked Mr. Blakesley if they were crossing any boundaries in their current discussion when it came to the referendum. Mr. Blakesley replied that they could discuss the bond. A discussion ensued about interest on the bond.
  • Mayor Fullmer called for a point of clarity on the bond parameters. She said that $35 million was the bond parameters and that they were trying to hone in on the actual costs. She felt it was a point of confusion on how the bond parameters worked. The discussion continued.
  • Mayor Fullmer explained the process the city had already gone through to date. She said that the city wanted to be fiscally conservative and were talking to people about what they wanted. They were trying to make it more affordable and make the right decision. A discussion ensued about a-day stay.  3.Tentative Budget ThemayorandCityCouncilwilldiscussthetentativebudget.Noactionwillbetaken at this time.
  • Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Finance Director Kristie Bayles.
  • Ms. Bayles presented an overview of the tentative budget. A budget discussion ensued. Mayor Fullmer explained the tentative budget process.            PUBLICCOMMENTS Mayor Fullmer called for public comments.
  • Terry Ewing, living in the Villas, commented on the $35 M bond and costs of the building. She also commented on the list of bonds that LRB had presented at the last meeting and that the city did not have any final plans. She commented on the fire station and the size of the fire trucks that would be available in the city.
  • Daria Evans, living in the Villas, asked to have public comments before work sessions. She expressed appreciation for Mr. Ghandour’s help when she reached out to him. She felt that the Takeback Medication Day was a success. She gave a shoutout to deputies Ryan and Stilson for their help at the crosswalk at0 North and Main Street during school hours, because the sewer repair had caused scary situations. She then read a response from one of the crossing guards. She said that she was happy to learn that the Utah City development was including schools and churches. She asked about the Vineyard Beach shoreline plan. She expressed concern that the notice on Aprild was not available to the residents. There was a discussion about the bond interest at maturity.
  • Karen Cornelious, living in The Villas subdivision, said that this was the first time she had heard that the city was using $3million and wanted to know where it came from. She expressed concern with a comment from the town hall where the mentioned that he city only needed percent of the building for city staff. She said that the fiscal impact for the referendum did not include an expense that the citizens owned. She asked about a contract with MAG for the Vineyard Center.
  • Jacob Holdaway, living on Holdaway Road, expressed concerns with how the council was treating him. He reviewed the process he had gone through since he started last year. He felt that there were things mandated by the state: the budget, the procurement policy, and restricted access to ledgers. He felt that, as long as the four councilmembers were aligned, he was never going to get anything. He felt it was up to the council to report every month.
  • David Pearce, living in the Cascade subdivision, expressed appreciation to all who participated in the drug takeback day. He said that Democracy was messy and felt that tonight was proof.
  • Mayor Fullmer addressed the bond comments and the design of the buildings and the savings aspect. She mentioned that staff shared offices and rented space to save money for the fire station and other facilities. She said that a priority now was to have space for the staff needed to meet services for the city. She added that LRB had shown a common use comparison, that the city had been planning for a while and they had just discussed the CM/GC. She mentioned that Vineyard was in a multi-city service area and the ladder truck was housed in the cooperative. They were building a fire house to have emergency staff closer to home. She said that residents were under the impression that approving the resolution they had given bond counsel permission to sell the bonds, but they had added to the resolution that it had to come back to council before they sold the bonds. Mr. Ellis gave an update on the status of the shoreline project. Lieutenant Rockwell explained that they had posted a no U-turn sign at the intersection on0 North and Main Street and they would be enforcing it.
  • Mayor Fullmer made a statement to resident “Councilmember” Holdaway. Evey time she sat in a meeting and every public conversation and every time he had asked for the General Ledger and vendor list, he has received them. She mentioned that they had talked with the State Auditor to make sure they could show him how the staff had been working on this. As a council, they had stated at every meeting that they wanted him to have what he needed. When he asked about travel, and other items, they had done presentations on them. When he said he did not have access to how he votes on things, it was in the financial policy that they have to vote on it as a council person in order for it to go into the financial policy for the different layers of signing for department heads, City Manager, the City Manager and the mayor, and different groups because they had inserted checks and balances. She stated that he had been given this policy multiple times, when asked for it to be on the agenda, she put on an agenda and then looked at it again in August. They talked about creating a financial committee. She reiterated her previous comments. She said that Councilmember Holdaway wanted it done outside of the law and parameters that they work in as a group and body, and they asked how to make it work for him. They made new laws to make it so that it did work for you. This all was a matter of public record. When he asked about travel and no one would tell you, everything was outlined in the budget. He talked about travel in multiple meetings and told people that she had wasted taxpayer dollars going on lavish trips. He was told in multiple meetings and given records that proved she did not do this, but he kept bringing it up as if she did. After a while she stopped responding because it had nothing to do with the business of the city. She said that Councilmember Holdaway told people that they hid agenda items where they did not vote on them multiple times on something that no return on investment. They held multiple meetings where they voted on them and showed the return in investment.
  • Councilmember Clawson commented that as they were looking at upcoming budgets and past budgets and making claims about the financial state of the city, he found it amazing that they qualified for an award if the city was in such rough shape. He did not pretend to know the weight of the award. In everything that he had seen in going through the budget process, it had a different story to tell.
  • Councilmember Cameron addressed the comment about only needing percent of the new building, ignoring the fact that they had shared partnerships who would share the building and expenses. She felt that they should not have taken off the leasing partners, which could help make the building net positive. They could not move in that direction because of the hyper criticism on everything they did. She noted that she had attended a really good educational conference put on by ULCT (Utah League of Cities and Towns). The main issues with every city were the negativity and the constant criticism and how to address the misinformation and the constant criticism. She said that before she became a councilmember, she loved Vineyard, and that Mayor Fullmer was doing a great job. Then she heard all the criticism and accusations. After a year and a half and people were saying the city was not transparent and talking to other people on the council telling her they knew about things that could be found on agendas and in minutes, but she keeps hearing the same narrative that it was not transparent. She said that she had not done her own homework in the beginning but just listened to other people who were angry and had a vendetta and an agenda against the mayor and the city. She did not feel critical about the city and Mayor Fullmer anymore after walking the walk and seeing how hard it is and how hard they work to make the city beautiful.
  • Councilmember Sifuentes disclosed that she had taken a position with the county helping families who are in inter-generational poverty. She said that, for Councilmember Holdaway’s comment that he had not approved of anything financial was erroneous; he had voted on consent items with fiscal impacts. She wanted to remind staff to spell out acronyms on the agendas. She said that she had always been open to discussing the financial policy and the one time they put it on the agenda they did not know he was going to be out of town. (Mayor Fullmer noted that they brought it back in August for discussion.) She said that she did not mind if they wanted to change policy, then they should do it. She felt that if Councilmember Holdaway were more willing to work with her, they would get more accomplished. She stated that she was willing to collaborate with him and worked on Municipal Code Titlebecause it was something that meant a lot to Councilmember Holdaway. She felt that there were other things that they could align on, but they were too busy disagreeing on other things that they could not get anything done. She added that she also had frustrations too but felt because everyone was constantly yelling at each other and getting frustrated and voting no on things that shouldn’t be voted no on out of a need to make administrative moves; she felt that she could not mention during the meeting frustrations because they were too busy with his. She felt that it would be nice if he could figure out a way to collaborate and talk to her without it having to be a publicly recorded item.
  • Mr. Blakesley gave a statement in follow up to previous comments and the meeting with the State Auditor’s office. He explained that they brainstormed ways that Councilmember Holdaway could share the budget documents. He gave his perspective as to what an attorney does, and which has become his mantra and how he governs himself: to know the law, solve problems, and help his client do the right thing within those parameters. He stated that he had no interest in arguing with Councilmember Holdaway, but he did have an interest in helping the council do its work. When Councilmember Holdaway presented the problem with how he could get the general ledger and share it with the people he wanted to advise him, he went to work on it and had a conversation with the State Auditor. He explained that Councilmember Holdaway was given a physical copy of the leger and that he had responded he responded with two things: he wanted an electronic copy in a format that he could sort and review things to understand them in a more granulated way; the second thing was he wanted to share it publicly. Mr. Blakesley said that the state allowed for information to be shared publicly on the transparency website and explained how the website worked. He further explained that there were more details in the ledger such as names of individuals who were late on their utility payments, scholarships awarded to minors, which we felt should be appropriately redacted from the ledger, but it had to be done manually. He said that Councilmember Holdaway had said that he was less interested in sharing publicly on social media but wanted to allow for an accountant that he trusted to work with him. He said that one of the things that the auditor’s office had suggested was to prepare a confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement regarding the private and protected information for whomever he shared the document with and have the council approve it.
  • Mayor Fullmer reiterated what had happened during this discussion.
  • Councilmember Holdaway clarified what he meant by sharing publicly. A discussion ensued. Mayor Fullmer asked the council if they felt comfortable moving it forward.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO ADD THE NON-DISCLOSURE DOCUMENT TO A FUTURE AGENDA. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO ADD A-DAY STAY TO A FUTURE AGENDA. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
  • Councilmember Holdaway listed his remaining agenda requests: ·       Procurement Policy Thresholds ·       The detailedness of the city budget/threshold of how detailed it needs to be in the annual budget. A discussion ensued. Mr. Blakesley suggested that they send this request to the finance committee to get their recommendations before putting the item on a future agenda. ·       GRAMA policy - A discussion ensued.            MAYORANDCOUNCILMEMBERS'REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS             STAFF,COMMISSION, ANDCOMMITTEE REPORTS
  • Councilmember Holdaway requested that consent items4 and5 be removed for discussion.
  • CityManager Report mentioned the monthly report. He announced publicly that the city had UTA ECO Passes for purchase by residents.            CONSENT ITEMS1.   Approvalofthe March26,25,City CouncilMeeting Minutes2.   Approvalofthe April3,2025, CityCouncilSpecial SessionMeeting Minutes3.   Approvalofthe April21,2025, CityCouncilSpecial SessionMeeting Minutes4.   ProfessionalServicesContractRenewal(Resolution2025-16)5.   RecommendationtoExpandthePoolofProfessionalServicesConsultants (Resolution25-19)6.   InterlocalAgreementwithUtahCountyforElectionServices(Resolution2025-) (Fiscal Impact up to $40,000)7.   SpecialEventFeeWaiverRequest-Mother'sDayLuau Fundraiser8.   AwardofCity-WideStreetlightMaintenanceContract(Resolution2025-20)9.   ApprovalofMasterLeaseAgreementwithKenGarffFord(Resolution2025-21) Mayor Fullmer called for a motion.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO APPROVE AND ADOPT ITEMS1,2,3,6,7,8, AND9 AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  4ServicesContractRenewal(Resolution2025-16) 5 RecommendationtoExpandthePoolofProfessionalServicesConsultants (Resolution25-19)
  • Mr. Ellis explained the two items and how the fiscal impact would work. Mayor Fullmer explained that there was no fiscal impact at this time. A discussion ensued regarding how the pool of consultants and budgeting would work.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEMS4. AND5. COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY VOTED NO. THE MOTION CARRIED FOUR (4) TO ONE (1).           APPOINTMENTS/REMOVALS There were no appointments submitted.             BUSINESSITEMS1.   PUBLICHEARING-ConsolidatedFeeScheduleAmendment(Resolution25-) UtilityBillingClerkMariaArteagawillpresentproposedamendmentstothe Consolidated Fee Schedule.
  • Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to open the public hearing.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT:14 PM. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY SECONDED THE MOTION.MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
  • Utility Billing Clerk Mr. Arteaga reviewed the changes.A discussion ensued regarding the changes.
  • Mayor Fullmer called for public comments. Hearing none, she called for a motion to close the public hearing.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT:15 PM. COUNCILMEMBER CAMERON SECONDED THE MOTION.MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   Mayor Fullmer called for comments or a motion.
  • Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO ADOPT RESOLUTION25-17 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE AMENDED IMPACT FEES. COUNCILMEMBER CLAWSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, CLAWSON, HOLDAWAY, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.10.     CLOSEDSESSION No closed session was held. .     ADJOURNMENT
  • Mayor Fullmer adjourned the meeting at:16 PM.     MINUTES APPROVED ON:   May,25   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:        Pamela Spencer, CIty Recorder
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Transcript

All right, we're going to go ahead and get the Vineyard City Council meeting started. It's April 30th, 2025 and the time is 6:38 00:00:06
PM. 00:00:10
We're going to start with our GFOA Award presentation by our Finance Director, Christy Bayless. 00:00:16
And we're excited to hear from you. 00:00:24
OK, now we're turned up. Thank you. 00:00:33
Mayor and council, it is my pleasure. 00:00:35
To let you know that we have once again received the Distinguished Budget Award from the Government Finance Finance Officers 00:00:38
Association. 00:00:42
If you look up behind you, there is a plaque that's missing right there and that's because I took it down to put our new annual 00:00:46
thing on. So this is the seventh year in a row. 00:00:51
That vineyard has gotten the Distinguished Budget Presentation Award. 00:00:56
We give a whole budget book to them and they review it. 00:01:00
There are certain things that have to be in it that are mandatory and they have reviewers go through it, give you suggestions on 00:01:03
how to make it better and if you need the requirement to get the award. And I want to especially thank Zach Adams, our treasurer. 00:01:09
And Maria Ortega, our utility billing clerk, because they were the ones that put so much work into that. So I present this to you, 00:01:15
Mayor, so that you can put it back up on the wall. 00:01:20
Thank you. 00:01:25
Christie, Christie. 00:01:28
Bring your team up and let's get a picture with us. 00:01:31
I know. 00:01:42
Yeah. 00:02:02
I. 00:02:15
All right. 00:02:36
We also have a series of proclamations that I have made. 00:02:37
They are the 56th annual Municipal Clerks Week. 00:02:41
Five months Building Safety Month, National Drinking Water Week and the National Public Works Week. 00:02:45
And you can read about those, they will be posted. 00:02:52
Up on our board upstairs. 00:02:55
Next we have a downtown update and Pete Evans with Black Borough will give an update, so come on up. 00:02:58
We're excited to hear from you. 00:03:05
Oh, you don't have to tell me that. 00:03:18
And now we won't download a virus onto my computer when I plug it in. 00:03:22
What does that say? 00:03:36
No, nothing. 00:03:38
Yeah. While we're waiting for that to load up, thank you for having us come in, letting us come in. 00:03:41
Try to give you. 00:03:47
Give you an update. I'm Pete Evans. 00:03:49
With Flagborough. Nate Hutchinson is also here. 00:03:51
Who will be speaking as well? 00:03:55
What we thought we'd do is just give you an update. Oh, perfect. Thanks, Kash. 00:03:58
Give you a progress update on. 00:04:06
Kind of where we are right now on the plask, the planning process. 00:04:09
Our roadway and infrastructure. 00:04:13
And our vertical development. 00:04:15
So right now we've submitted several Platts as we subdivide. 00:04:17
The property. 00:04:22
The road dedication plat dedicated the road up to the. 00:04:23
Frontrunner Station. 00:04:26
Our phase two plat is what you see in magenta there. 00:04:28
Umm, that mostly. And then phase 5. 00:04:32
Where we split up block 4, which is a little confusing because. 00:04:36
Block 4 split up. 00:04:39
Plat 5 but. 00:04:41
There's no correlation between the plat numbers and the block numbers. 00:04:42
Our Plat 3 is kind of as you move N including the green line. 00:04:47
The two sections of the Green line. 00:04:51
And then? 00:04:53
Phase 4 Plat. 00:04:54
Is the developments and roads as we get. 00:04:56
Closer to the Huntsman cancer site. 00:04:59
Along Essex St. which is 1200 N. 00:05:02
So these are kind of the timing of our what we're anticipating on St. improvements and. 00:05:07
Infrastructure plans. 00:05:13
So phase. 00:05:14
One we had our first lift. 00:05:16
Asphalt. March, April. 00:05:19
All the way around there, Phase 2. 00:05:22
Umm, same and then Phase 2. 00:05:25
Was the streets around blocks? 00:05:30
Got us to blocks 5 and 6 and through block 4. 00:05:33
And around the center area of the Green Line. 00:05:37
Then as we go north. 00:05:40
We've got additional paving that will happen up 3rd Ave. 00:05:43
And up 2nd Ave. 00:05:46
Our goal is to be able to have that construction entrance. 00:05:49
For Huntsman Cancer on Essex St. or 1200 N. 00:05:53
Haze by September. 00:05:57
Which will really allow us to do 2 things. It will allow us to have. 00:05:58
Them have great construction access for their site as they start. 00:06:02
Their underground work. 00:06:06
They'll also allow us to better separate. 00:06:07
Construction and residential traffic. 00:06:10
As we have people start moving into our blocks 5:00 and 6:00. 00:06:12
So these are some of the some pictures from. 00:06:18
Around the community, just so you can see where we are vertical development wise, so that star is. 00:06:21
Right on kind of that northeast corner of Block 5. 00:06:27
Block 5 is actually made-up of five separate buildings. 00:06:30
And you'll see as we go through the pictures. 00:06:33
But right on the green line there. 00:06:36
So that's that corner looking back from the green line, kind of. 00:06:38
Southeast. 00:06:43
Yeah, please. I think too, One of the things that you'll hopefully notice is Utah City develops out. 00:06:47
Is we've spent an enormous amount of money in elevations and materiality. 00:06:53
So that the project is different than what you would see in a typical. 00:06:59
In a. 00:07:03
Utah project. So I think hopefully this is just the start of obviously what we're doing. There's a lot more to come. 00:07:05
But hopefully this illustrates the intention, intentionality of what we're trying to do here. That's different, that's unique. It 00:07:11
has a very long term vision. It's not. 00:07:16
You know, build something quickly and sell it and then move on to the next thing. 00:07:21
We are Utah County residents. 00:07:25
We love living here. We've developed in the city now for over 10 years. 00:07:28
We care about the city and plan on being here for a really long time and I just hope. 00:07:33
As we go through some of this that you see. 00:07:38
We may all disagree on what we're doing or what we, you know, whether you like what we're doing or not, but at least hopefully you 00:07:41
will not question whether or not we're really spending a lot of time in being meticulous and intentional about what we're trying 00:07:46
to create. I think that's important as we go through this. 00:07:52
From the green line, the playground, everything is very, very top notch. It's not just like what's the cheapest thing we can build 00:07:57
and get out of here, It's a very long term vision here that we have and think we can create something very special together. 00:08:03
So that also goes into, you know, we worked. 00:08:11
For a long time on. 00:08:15
These paseos and courtyards that go throughout the community. 00:08:16
So as you come down and you weave through. 00:08:20
Block 5 and you're in between these two buildings. 00:08:22
As you walk through this area and it connects these different courtyards. 00:08:25
That are inside of the community. 00:08:29
You can kind of see, you know, you look at it from a plan view on paper. 00:08:31
You're like, Oh yeah, that'll be. 00:08:35
More interesting than. 00:08:37
Not having that there, you walk through it. 00:08:39
Right now and you're like, wow, this is gonna be amazing. 00:08:41
Like this is going to be a really, really cool. 00:08:44
Environment for people to live in. 00:08:47
So in these courtyards we have. 00:08:49
Different courtyards are programmed. 00:08:52
With different elements, this is a playground structure. 00:08:54
That's going into one of the courtyards. 00:08:57
A different courtyard has. 00:08:59
A pizza oven and is more quiet and kind of more. 00:09:00
You know, less kid oriented. 00:09:05
Another one has. 00:09:07
You know, like. 00:09:10
Wiffle ball and things like that in it and so all of them are programmed differently. 00:09:11
And they're all connected by this series of. 00:09:16
Pedestrian Paseos that interconnect them. 00:09:18
This is block 6. 00:09:22
This view is kind of looking from the South to the north. 00:09:25
But you can see this similarly. There's two big courtyards in between. 00:09:29
Those two buildings and again. 00:09:34
You know, as you look at these buildings in the way that they were designed, the first floor. 00:09:36
Doesn't have interior loaded corridors. They all enter and exit out onto the public area. 00:09:41
So you're creating this really social. 00:09:46
Really walkable condition with the buildings themselves and with. 00:09:49
The way that the buildings are laid out and connected together. 00:09:53
This is blocks 8 and 14. 00:09:57
Just north of the Green Line. 00:10:00
So you can see that building is framing up to the north, the one to the South. 00:10:02
They're pouring footings on. 00:10:07
You can see the large kind of commercial space. 00:10:09
On the first floor of this. 00:10:12
Building on that corner, there will be. 00:10:14
An identical one on this corner. 00:10:16
That'll be across the street from each other. 00:10:18
And you know those will eventually be. 00:10:21
Retail areas that we hope will be. 00:10:25
Breakfast shops or donut shops or. 00:10:28
I guess no one eats Donuts anymore, but. 00:10:30
I still eat Donuts. 00:10:33
Yeah. 00:10:35
Yeah. 00:10:36
So, umm. 00:10:37
They'll probably be programmed with some fitness and. 00:10:39
Things like that, it'll be more immediately available. 00:10:42
But it's built to be able to convert to. 00:10:45
Retail in the future? 00:10:48
This is block 4 where we've. 00:10:50
Started the grocery store. 00:10:52
Development. So this is this is. 00:10:54
Been a really interesting process for us to go through, but. 00:10:57
We're really, really excited about. 00:11:01
The grocery store and how that's turning out. 00:11:03
If you've been over here at all, you've. 00:11:07
Probably notice that this grocery store is. 00:11:09
Building out in. 00:11:12
Record time. 00:11:13
What's that? 00:11:15
You talk about construction. 00:11:17
Hit the pretty picture. 00:11:21
Another you know, I think this also hopefully one of the things we've heard loud and clear from this community for a lot of years. 00:11:23
What they need for a grocery store. The grocery store we're building we didn't feel like existed in our market, so we went and 00:11:30
found Lee's. 00:11:34
Who? Umm, uh. 00:11:38
Is an associated foods partner, as many of you know. 00:11:40
The thought process behind that was to make sure that we could bring. 00:11:43
Prices to where we wouldn't price people out of the market by building what we believe will be the nicest grocery store in the 00:11:47
state. 00:11:51
This grocery store is not built. 00:11:55
From an aesthetic standpoint to get returns from a real estate perspective, this is very, very overbuilt and the only way you'll 00:11:58
and how you'll know that is. 00:12:02
Go drive around and look at every other grocery store in the Utah market and compare it to this. It is very, very unique. 00:12:07
And we're excited to do this. And the reason behind this was because. 00:12:13
We felt like this is what the community had been asking for for a very, very long time and wanted to put this kind of in the heart 00:12:17
of the community as soon as possible so. 00:12:21
Oh so yeah, you. And if you ever watched the video, that little excerpt video that we made, we. 00:12:28
With Sean Feeney from New York. 00:12:36
He has one of the top two or three pizzerias in the world in New York. 00:12:39
And he will be bringing his first location out of New York. 00:12:43
Right there on the corner there, Feeny Pizza and a cafe shop next door to that and we plan on hopefully opening that as soon as 00:12:47
the grocery store opens. So we're in the middle of. 00:12:52
Interior design work with him. 00:12:57
He's been asked by developers all around the country to go. 00:12:59
He's a very close member of a member of our team. 00:13:02
A close friend of a member of our team and. 00:13:05
So he's willing to lean in here and will hopefully help us with other culinary. 00:13:07
Culinary concepts that we can bring, the goal of this is to, you know, Utah County is in need of some medium to higher tier 00:13:11
restaurants. But what we want to make sure is we're not just pricing everyone out of the market and having really expensive 00:13:16
steakhouses in here. 00:13:21
Ideally, we'll have one or two of those overtime. 00:13:26
But it's to bring. 00:13:29
Good culinary concepts here that we don't have that you can find maybe a lot of other places in Utah. That's kind of the culinary 00:13:30
thought process that we have. 00:13:35
Bringing things down to it, so. 00:13:40
There's construction, as Pete mentioned, it's we're going gangbusters. We're shooting as hard as we can to have this open by 00:13:45
November 1st. 00:13:48
The TI plans are into the city. We've gotten comments back. 00:13:52
There's a little bit, they're already rolling the roof. 00:13:56
So this is well, well underway. 00:13:59
Here's some concepts of the inside. 00:14:03
These have been updated a little bit in the plans that have been turned into the city, but that's kind of the aesthetic that we're 00:14:05
going for. 00:14:09
Umm, so it should be a unique aspect of. 00:14:13
The interior there. 00:14:20
The green light on. 00:14:23
Keep going. 00:14:24
Right, I thought you'd never ask. 00:14:26
So the green line here we got blocks five and six of the green line were the number 9 is. 00:14:29
This is well underway. 00:14:35
Here's the concept rendering of this. This isn't just like what it hopes to be, this is actual. 00:14:38
Renderings of the construction drawings. 00:14:44
So as some of you have probably seen. 00:14:47
That pavilion is being installed. That grass is there. Here's an actual picture of where it is today. 00:14:50
This play structure that you can see right there is maybe the thing I'm most excited about in all of. 00:14:56
We asked Bronson and. 00:15:04
He kept bringing here's a play concept, here's a play concept. And it was like, we want something very iconic that kids would love 00:15:07
that would terminate the green line. 00:15:11
And he found this. 00:15:15
This, it's about 40 feet tall. It's incredibly beautiful and kids are going to love this. And that's probably the thing I'm 00:15:16
currently most excited about and that delivers like. 00:15:21
July. June. 00:15:27
So that will terminate kind of you see to the top, middle of that picture there. 00:15:29
There will be a children's play area and then that iconic balloon looking structure will be right there in the middle. 00:15:34
Umm. Here's the pavilion. 00:15:41
We'll put some cladding on that here soon. Oops. 00:15:43
Oh boy. 00:15:50
Yeah, sorry. 00:15:55
Easy. 00:15:58
So play structure there for the children. This is the middle green line concept. 00:16:01
This is also under construction this. 00:16:07
Is shooting to be completed in about August? 00:16:09
Everything but the structures there in the middle, as you remember we had talked about. 00:16:13
Like a farm to table type restaurant concept there in the middle that's more permanent obviously. 00:16:16
We can't make any profit off that restaurant. Any money that would come in from any of the leases that that come into the Green 00:16:25
Line just go to operate the Green Line and help pay for maintenance of the Green Line. 00:16:30
So then we're working on some potential maybe temporary pop up shots that go around that of national retailers that could come in 00:16:35
and trade out concepts frequently. This would just be temporary in nature. 00:16:41
Have some local. 00:16:46
Umm, different users and some of these as well. So get a nice flavor of bringing mixing kind of local, regional and national. 00:16:48
Umm, tendency into that. And then you have the two umm, spaces on the side for gathering for like movies in the park. 00:16:56
Jackie, our Marketing Director is Some of you have met Jackie at some of the different events. 00:17:03
She will be programming a lot of this kind of constantly. So we'll be having yoga in the park, movies in the park, in the Green 00:17:08
Line, you know, all these different things that will be able to bring people. 00:17:13
Down and be able to participate kind of as a community in some of these spaces. So that's kind of the work that's being done there 00:17:19
now as you can tell it's very active and going. 00:17:24
We're excited about that. Wish it was. 00:17:29
Done sooner, but. 00:17:32
Can't win them all. 00:17:34
Umm. And then this is the update on the kind of. 00:17:39
Recreation facilities, Wellness pool facility that we talked about a couple of years ago. 00:17:42
We're hoping to start construction. This is the site plan. We're working on this now. 00:17:48
You've got the kids play pool area here. 00:17:52
The splash pad here. This is very similar to the one you saw a couple of years ago. 00:17:56
And then these, this will be a quiet pool that's elevated. 00:18:00
More membership. 00:18:03
Maybe more annual memberships that go along with this building. 00:18:05
Umm, as you remember from the lease from a couple of years ago. 00:18:09
And then this is more of the. 00:18:11
Kind of adult pool, but. 00:18:13
Maybe monthly memberships and that ties into the kids pool. There will be lifeguards here. 00:18:17
Concessions building here and once again. 00:18:23
This is run as a nonprofit for. 00:18:25
For Utah City and Vineyard residents, so not looking to make any money off of this, just as an amenity for people who want to use 00:18:28
it. 00:18:32
As you'll remember from a couple of years ago, many other cities. 00:18:35
Bond and tax everybody to build structures like this. 00:18:39
But this provided a really unique opportunity for Vineyard residents because this is something they can opt into if they want to. 00:18:43
But they don't have to pay for it if they don't. 00:18:49
Working currently right now, I think we're in for a site plan on this. This is a kind of a racquet club. This is. 00:18:54
Change maybe a little bit. There's a few less pickleball courts. We decided to add a few more Fidel courts as you can see here. 00:19:01
And you're familiar with Fidel? That's kind of a sport that's. 00:19:07
Taking off across the country. 00:19:10
Very similar to pickleball, but a little bit different. And so this concept had. 00:19:12
Way too many pickleball courts as you can see here, and not as many Fidel. So that mix will change a little bit. This will be 00:19:17
temporary until we build on this in the future, so maybe 5 to 10 years, but at least start to provide some activation. 00:19:23
Also, this borders the green line. 00:19:29
So provide some activities for current Vineyard residents to come up and participate in, or people that live downtown as well. 00:19:31
This is a basketball court that will. 00:19:38
That we're working with Sean Feeney and the Feeney Pizza concept on right here to activate and bring BYU and Jazz players and many 00:19:41
other players from across the country to do more activations and then have. 00:19:46
Vineyard. 00:19:52
Basketball tournaments, etc. From people that want to come up and participate in that. 00:19:54
So that's kind of everything that's currently. 00:20:00
Under design and under construction. 00:20:04
We're working with some architects to decide on who what architects to choose for blocks one and seven here. 00:20:07
That border this border the train Plaza. 00:20:14
And that will have much more retail if you'll remember from the code it's required to have. 00:20:17
Main floor retail and that whole area there. 00:20:23
Just for reference sake, from the train station to the end of the square about here. 00:20:25
Is a distance of about Cheesecake Factory to Nordstrom at City Creek. 00:20:31
So when you look at this concept, you know, that just kind of gives you an idea of how much retail we're actually talking there. 00:20:36
So we're working with some some national architecture firms and local firms to, to start planning this. It would have about 150 to 00:20:42
170,000 feet of retail on the main level. 00:20:47
With some housing concepts on top, there's been a lot of questions from the community on. 00:20:53
Is all going to be for rent? 00:20:58
The answer to that is no, it is not for sure going to be all for rent. 00:21:00
Our philosophy is, though, most of these projects you're seeing we're starting now are for rent. And the thought process behind 00:21:05
that is as we deliver the green Line, as we deliver Huntsman Cancer, as we deliver. 00:21:11
The retail and create the sense of place and experience that that point probably it makes more sense to bring in some of the for 00:21:19
sale housing alongside all of that. So the next few years there will be lots and lots of for sale housing. 00:21:24
It will be kind of scattered throughout the community and really thoughtful and how it works with parking and everything else. 00:21:31
And will be managed. The parking will be similarly managed to the residential. 00:21:37
The rental residential to. 00:21:42
To ensure that. 00:21:44
There's ample parking and it's enforced, I think some of the challenges that the city's had in the past on parking. To this point, 00:21:46
I'm just a bystander in this. 00:21:50
But the. 00:21:54
It's not being enforced appropriately and a lot of those different communities and that's. 00:21:57
When you rent a unit, A2 bedroom unit to four or five college students, it gets a little challenging to provide ample parking. So 00:22:03
the way to handle that is that the HOA is properly enforce those and some of those. 00:22:08
Hos, but I don't know why I'm bringing this up right now. I probably should stay clear of that. 00:22:14
And then Huntsman cancer is. 00:22:20
Is up there to the north they plan on delivering. 00:22:24
They were planning on delivering first quarter of 2029. 00:22:28
They're feeling like that schedules pulling forward maybe to the third, second or third quarter of 2028. 00:22:31
So that's a lot of high paying jobs and as Pete mentioned before, we're working really hard to get all the infrastructure ready 00:22:37
for them and then we're talking with. 00:22:41
State and national tenants. 00:22:47
On adjacency for them to bring in other larger employers into the area. 00:22:49
So we think that'll be a boon for everybody and I think. 00:22:55
One of the things I think all of us can agree on. 00:22:58
Is continuing to work with the state. 00:23:02
To make sure that. 00:23:04
Major thoroughfares are widened appropriately and built. I think we can all agree that getting people in and out of the city is a 00:23:07
huge concern. 00:23:10
And I think there's been talks about, you know, then you're leapfrogging some of these other cities and not waiting our our. 00:23:14
Line, our turn in line. I think that the response to that from from our perspective would be a lot of these cities, because Geneva 00:23:20
Steel was here, we're able to get hundreds of millions of dollars of state infrastructure for the last 50 years. And actually 00:23:26
Vineyard has been leapfrogged by a lot of them for a very long time. And now we're kind of stuck with a couple insurance and outs 00:23:31
of the city. 00:23:37
And so I think is. 00:23:42
All of us should hopefully be able to work together and trying to alleviate some of that stress and we appreciate all of you that 00:23:44
are kind of digging into that and trying to help there, but there's ever meetings with state or. 00:23:49
County or regional officials on that and you feel like the developer could be helpful in any of those meetings. We're happy to. 00:23:55
To dig in within any of the citizens that are here as well, to work on that together, because we think that is probably. 00:24:01
Should be the number one focus of all of us kind of all the time that we're all beating, beating that drum that we get the 00:24:07
infrastructure necessary to make everything work for everybody. So. 00:24:12
That's great, Council. Do you have any questions? 00:24:18
Will you go back to? 00:24:25
Let's see one of the first slides of the building. 00:24:28
Cluster completion. 00:24:32
Yeah, yeah, that works. 00:24:38
So you were saying that when people exit their homes, they're coming out the front door. Is that? 00:24:41
So where do they like just religious sex? I'm just curious, is there a parking structure inside of there somewhere or they park on 00:24:46
the street or? Yeah. So, so all of the all of the black that you see here is parking, surface parking for now and then it will go 00:24:53
into structure. So in the future there'll be a parking structure here on 6B. 00:24:59
There'll be a parking structure here on 5F. 00:25:05
And and these people can go into this courtyard here and access their units. 00:25:08
OK. 00:25:13
Good question. 00:25:15
Thank you. 00:25:17
Any other questions? 00:25:21
This looks incredible. We're really excited. These projects are exciting and I think our residents will be really happy to know 00:25:24
that that park is moving on. It was really neat to be with you guys the other day and saw the trees that are going in and. 00:25:31
Just to know that. 00:25:38
That big hot air balloon looking structures coming in tips will love that. It's incredible Well and I really appreciated the 00:25:39
detail in the exterior. 00:25:44
They're really pretty like it looks really, really nice. So the detail you guys have it's yeah, I was really impressed. Thank you. 00:25:49
We're trying and we think blocks five and six are probably the we're learning as we go as well. So hopefully it gets better as we 00:25:55
go. But thank you yeah. And thank you so much for working with our other partners like UTA and donating parking and helping them 00:26:01
work together to create more parking that's. 00:26:07
Really big for our community. We appreciate that. Just being really thoughtful about parking in general. So another thing I wanted 00:26:13
to mention, we're currently working with the Church of Jesus Christ on some multiple church sites in here. 00:26:20
That would be more vertical and urban in nature than what you see historically in Utah too, so there's some exciting things on 00:26:27
that front. Nothing to announce yet. 00:26:30
Do you want and? Not the special projects department yet, but. 00:26:35
Do you want to maybe talk about, I know a lot of people have questions about schools in the area because we are going to need 00:26:39
another element of school and vineyards too. Yeah, good question. So and all the projects we've done in the past like when we 00:26:45
developed Waters Edge, there was no necessarily school sites planned for that. 00:26:50
Worked with the charter school and the Alpine school district and made sure there's perfect schools obviously. 00:26:56
Worst case scenario for developers to build a project that doesn't have schools. It's not good for property values and we also 00:27:03
care about children at the same time as. 00:27:07
As we did the little Shark Tank thing here with the other school, which is which is fun. 00:27:12
But yes, there will be school, you know, we'll work with them for appropriate land that they need for schools. Once again, what 00:27:16
we're trying to talk to some of these groups about is to integrate it into a mixed-use environment so that you don't go and take 00:27:22
Block 7 and make that a typical elementary school with all the fields, but that we're working together and maybe it's up by Geneva 00:27:27
Park, for example, where we're able to share the fields during the day. 00:27:33
And so they're not having to buy as much ground and maybe go a little bit more vertical than they typically would. 00:27:38
But they're able to share the park space with the city and everybody else, so. 00:27:44
Could you also go into a little more detail about this swimming pool? 00:27:48
About how like, it's a public pool. 00:27:52
When you say memberships, it's like. 00:27:54
The kind of like what you see with the Sarah pool where people can buy their punch passes. Yeah, yeah. So good question. So in our 00:27:56
in our lease, if you'll remember. 00:28:01
It was. It was. 00:28:06
The charge will have to be similar to the cost that are born in other municipalities, so we're still working through the cost 00:28:07
structure of. 00:28:11
Are they monthly memberships? Are they annual memberships? How exactly do they work? But yes, it will be. 00:28:16
It will be similar for the people that live that, that live here downtown, for the residents if they would like to buy a 00:28:21
membership as well. So we haven't finalized that yet. We've just been really focused on. 00:28:26
Let's get the design going because it's going to take probably 16 to 18 months to build. 00:28:31
We're hoping to deliver at least, so go back. 00:28:35
Phase one of the. 00:28:39
I feel bad I just took this right over from Pete and he was doing so well and now I'm just off on a tangent. 00:28:42
Umm, phase one are the pools, the concessions building in this restroom building. 00:28:50
And splash pad and the hope is just to have that done by Memorial Day of 2026, so a year from now. 00:28:56
Within this building here following. 00:29:02
Thereafter, so working really hard on that. 00:29:06
That's just been working with the county on the. 00:29:09
On the health department and making sure all of that's done and the decking is sized appropriately for restrooms and all these 00:29:12
little nuances is what we've really been focused on. And then? 00:29:17
We'll turn the focus to kind of how that program works, so. 00:29:22
That's awesome. Thank you. It's really great. 00:29:26
All right. Well, is there any other questions? 00:29:30
Just thank you guys for coming and giving us an update and presenting. 00:29:33
Appreciate it. Thank you. 00:29:37
Thanks for having us, all right. 00:29:39
Next, we're going to hear about our Memorial Benson Tree Program and Brian Badri, our Parks and Rec director, will present. 00:29:41
Good evening, I cannot wait for Padell. 00:29:57
And uh. 00:30:01
I challenge Burleson. 00:30:03
No, I have not. 00:30:07
But I highly recommend everyone here. 00:30:10
If you have not already watched a video of Fidel, you should totally look it up. It is unreal. It's it's legit. 00:30:12
So that'll be super fun. 00:30:19
OK. 00:30:26
See if this will come up. 00:30:30
Maybe not. 00:30:39
Here we go. 00:30:46
OK. 00:30:49
So, umm. 00:30:55
Just really quick. 00:30:57
To go through this Memorial Venture Tree program, this is something that got an idea from. 00:30:59
Salem City, They've had a really. 00:31:04
A successful journey on this of just allowing for residents to honor a loved one. 00:31:07
In a park. 00:31:13
Donating a bench. 00:31:14
And so I decided to look more into this and have had several conversations with staff. 00:31:16
Umm, but essentially the goal. 00:31:22
Of this whole project. 00:31:25
Is this to provide that opportunity for the community to recognize a loved 1 to enhance the beautification of our. 00:31:28
Vineyard city parks and trails. 00:31:34
And then potentially. 00:31:36
Moving forward. 00:31:37
We could potentially reduce this from from general fund costs. 00:31:39
Umm, I want to show you the website. 00:31:44
That we have. 00:31:48
So this is accessible through our Vineyard, UT. 00:31:50
Gov website. 00:31:55
Umm, so we have a few different campaigns right now. We have the skate park fundraiser. 00:31:57
But if you just click on the memorial bench program. 00:32:03
You can go in here and see exactly where locations are that we're seeking to build a bench. 00:32:06
And. 00:32:15
So if somebody wants to come in here and donate a bench to Grove Park. 00:32:16
They can click on that. 00:32:22
Hit participate now. 00:32:25
They'll go through the steps. 00:32:28
Let's see, maybe we can go back. 00:32:29
It's a pretty simple process just going straight through. 00:32:34
But essentially there's like 7 locations right now that have been approved by Vineyard City staff. 00:32:37
And this bench is provided through Treetop. 00:32:44
It's a company that was referred to me through. 00:32:47
Another city. 00:32:50
They just have a really solid bench. 00:32:52
For a good price. 00:32:55
And umm, I was told that the typical price that most cities are charging is about 1500. 00:32:57
For a bench. So that's what we're planning to do for this. 00:33:03
So just to get a little bit more into the nitty gritty on this. 00:33:09
I'm going to do the full screen. 00:33:13
OK, so essentially if someone goes in and purchases a bench, they pay $1500? 00:33:17
And along with that they get a plaque. So it'll have a QR code on the plaque. 00:33:23
There's about 130 characters worth of space that you can. 00:33:30
Have a message or you can have a name, whatever it is that residents want to put. 00:33:34
Pending approval of Vineyard City staff to make sure that. 00:33:39
Everything is good to go with that. 00:33:43
But it allows community members to go through the park, they sit on the bench or walk by, they can scan the QR code and they can 00:33:46
learn a background about the person that the bench is dedicated to. 00:33:51
Umm. And then in order to make this a smooth transition for staff. 00:33:58
We would install the benches twice a year. 00:34:05
So we'd have two time periods of between April 1st and July 31st. That would be the first phase. 00:34:07
Umm, and we would have any benches that were. 00:34:14
Claimed We'll go ahead and order those in August. It's about a two week turn around to get those. 00:34:18
And then September, our public works team will go ahead and install that. 00:34:23
They'll have to pour some concrete. 00:34:29
So we've gone out to verify all of the locations to make sure that there's enough space and that it would correlate well with. 00:34:31
The level of the land and everything. 00:34:37
So that would be the first phase and then the next one we would just do August 1st to March 31st and then all of those would be 00:34:40
installed in May. 00:34:44
Umm, that way we just. 00:34:48
I don't have to interrupt the public works team on all the other jobs that they're busy doing. This just kind of gives them a 00:34:50
dedicated time. 00:34:54
And it also allows us to. 00:34:57
Umm, better stay, you know, within that budget of the $1500 with the cost of the bench and everything. 00:35:01
We also have a survey that will be going out. 00:35:09
This Friday. 00:35:12
For the Vineyard community to provide their feedback if there's additional locations that they specifically want to have a bench 00:35:14
placed. 00:35:18
They can voice that. They can also vote on what locations that are provided by staff they prefer. 00:35:22
And on that same website. 00:35:31
Residents can go in and they can actually propose a specific location and then it will ping staff. 00:35:34
With the message and we can get right back to them. 00:35:41
This is a quick overview on just the cost, right? So they're all six foot benches. 00:35:44
UMM comes with a plaque. 00:35:50
Umm, concrete pads. 00:35:54
Potential shipping that could vary based off of how many. 00:35:56
You know that we order at a time. 00:36:00
And then to also cover the cost of the software. 00:36:03
So that's a little bit about the bench as far as the trees. 00:36:07
Worked with the city arborist George Tram. 00:36:11
And he specifically picked this tree for the one location that were. 00:36:15
That we have online. 00:36:20
So within the splash pad area there is a. 00:36:22
A grass hill where there's there used to be a tree. 00:36:25
But they'd like to plant some more there. 00:36:30
And this is the specific tree that George recommended based off of his expertise of. 00:36:32
What he feels would be the best fit for. 00:36:37
For that property, so it would kind of follow the exact same protocol as far as the dates go. 00:36:40
And then with the plaque, we would just have like a stanchion stand. 00:36:47
Just so that. 00:36:52
It'll be easy to see and won't. 00:36:55
Mess with the roots of the trees. 00:36:57
And then that's just the basic financial overview. 00:37:01
And then again there's the. 00:37:06
Website. 00:37:08
So any questions? 00:37:09
Feel free to e-mail me or I can answer them now. 00:37:12
Council, do you have any questions? 00:37:15
Yeah, I have a couple of questions. 00:37:18
Have one I'm curious I think. I think it was in there. I just want to make sure I understood it correctly with AQR code. 00:37:23
Yeah, that would link to a city hosted. 00:37:29
Page. 00:37:33
It would go on to this same website. 00:37:35
So let me. 00:37:38
Go back here. 00:37:40
Let's see my legacy. You have to see my legacy website. 00:37:42
Yeah. So, so my curiosity on that is how? 00:37:46
But what's the ongoing? 00:37:50
Cost of maintaining that. 00:37:52
Yeah, the cost is $116.00 a month. 00:37:55
For the software for the software and that covers as many. 00:37:59
Comment pages this week. 00:38:04
Exactly. 00:38:07
OK, with the QR code, have like the name of the person also like if you would only have a QR code, yeah it would also have the 00:38:09
name. 00:38:13
Yeah, they could put up to 130 letters or numbers. 00:38:18
On the plaque. And then there will be a cure. Yeah, cool. 00:38:23
What I love about this is that. 00:38:27
We've had this request for some time and the youth council has been working on this and going out and looking for ways to fund it. 00:38:30
And a couple years ago we even had a big request by residents and we were considering attributing a lot of funding to it, but 00:38:36
really have to be careful as we prioritize and so this opportunity. 00:38:43
Serves all of those different groups that really enables the youth Councils project and allows them to be leaning out in this and 00:38:49
answers that request that came in from such a big portion of our community. So you've been really thoughtful about it and really 00:38:55
excited to see. 00:39:00
What we can provide the community while still being fiscally minded. Thank you. 00:39:06
Any other comments or thoughts? Is there any reason why we can't do this without a software and just have you buy it? 00:39:12
I oxen off a lot of park benches at public surplus in my day. 00:39:20
I know 1500 is a large price and QR codes are pretty easy. In fact I think we own Qualtrics that does QR codes already. 00:39:24
So why wouldn't you just create a landing page and just have the city take the money and not get paid the? 00:39:31
$500 a month. 00:39:36
150 a month. 00:39:38
For the software. So you think you could just do it? 00:39:40
So just a few things that really make this. 00:39:43
Software valuable #1 is just the fact that it allows people to kind of highlight the specific person that. 00:39:46
They're dedicating the bench too, right? So they can kind of tell their story. It makes it kind of a heritage type feel. 00:39:53
And then I would also say in response to that, just the fact that. 00:39:59
You can specifically verify the pictures of. 00:40:05
Where exactly that bench is going to be located? 00:40:09
What the environment looks like. 00:40:12
And then it also just allows for an easy way to just have accepting payments right through the the software, but there's three QR 00:40:15
codes system that we could just. 00:40:19
I mean this is pretty easy coding to just do that. 00:40:24
You don't think we could? 00:40:27
Jacob Wood could draft up something like that. It's pretty simple stuff. 00:40:29
I just worry I mean it's only 150 bucks off of but a month but. 00:40:33
It's like, how many months are you going to go selling a bench and. 00:40:37
Yeah, that's my issue is the software side, the whole idea that the park benches, the QR code, the idea and even putting a landing 00:40:41
page. 00:40:45
On our website, probably should be able to. 00:40:51
Have to ******. 00:40:53
To a URL off of a QR code. 00:40:55
So that's my issue. It's just the software side of things. I like what you're saying, Jake. I, I wonder, I want to explore that 00:40:58
just for a second. 00:41:01
And this was already paid for as a solution to creative solution to address the big ask that we had as a community, right? Can 00:41:06
you? 00:41:10
Took it down from a lot to this very small $1500. What you're doing today is announcing this campaign. 00:41:16
That is part of the see my legacy, right? Yeah. 00:41:23
When does that you said it? 00:41:27
Renews monthly. 00:41:29
It's a yearly thing. It's a yearly thing. 00:41:32
So I wonder if, Jake, if you could get together with Brian and maybe come up with a plan for next year and see? 00:41:35
And if there's an opportunity to explore? 00:41:42
Your idea and replace this idea. 00:41:46
And see which one actually works out. I think that would be good because today is just a campaign. But maybe if there's a way to 00:41:49
do it ourselves and it's cheaper and still gives us that benefit in the future, that would be incredible. Yeah. Sounds great. OK. 00:41:57
Right. 00:42:04
So today then, we're just moving to adopt. 00:42:08
The most, I mean, the campaign is that right? There's no motion. I see a little move to adopt. I'm going to scratch it out. 00:42:11
All right. Well, that's wonderful. Brian, you were already up here and I noticed that you had another one on the. 00:42:18
On the list, did you want to rotate and take turns? Because we're giving time for Jason. 00:42:25
Yeah. All right. 00:42:31
Come on up, Jason. 00:42:33
I don't know if you guys remember the riveting. 00:42:37
PowerPoint by Dan Miller. 00:42:41
It was over mosquito abatement. 00:42:43
Last, was it in fall that he came and gave us that we try to rotate, I mean we try to do it in the fall and the spring. 00:42:45
But Jason is taking his place because he retired just this week. 00:42:53
It's crazy. Well, at home we. 00:42:58
Loving and missing and. 00:43:00
Yeah, definitely. We're excited to work with you though. I'm so happy for him. First of all, he's worked I think 20 something 00:43:02
years in this industry. It's good to see somebody like him finally be able to relax so. 00:43:07
I think he's got some cool things. 00:43:12
For himself but. 00:43:14
That's great. 00:43:15
OK, let's see if I can get this to work. 00:43:17
Just bear with me for one second. 00:43:21
OK, great. 00:43:29
All right, Good evening, City Council members and Vineyard City residents. 00:43:29
Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you guys tonight and for your continued support over the years. Like she 00:43:35
mentioned, my name is Jason. 00:43:39
I'm replacing Dan Miller, who had a successful career in Mosquito Bateman. 00:43:43
I've been in the industry for nine years. 00:43:47
And this is actually my first month on the job, so. 00:43:49
Hopefully you can bear with me a little bit, but I'm not going to be nearly as good as Danna presenting, but I'm I'm definitely 00:43:52
working. Hopefully I can be good good by the time I'm. 00:43:55
You know, 20 years into it, but I'm here to provide you guys an update. 00:43:59
On the work we've been doing in Vineyard City, how our program has evolved. 00:44:04
With the goal of working together on a path forward that best supports both the city and the Mosquito Abatement District. 00:44:08
So our mission is pretty simple. It's to protect public health by managing mosquito populations using the most effective. 00:44:15
Efficient and environmentally responsible strategies available so over the past few years. 00:44:22
Our program is involved, evolved. 00:44:29
Like mentioned before, we've actually. 00:44:32
Greatly increased or expanded our mosquito control efforts, prioritizing prevention. 00:44:34
By significantly increasing our larviciding efforts, if you guys don't know what larviciding is. 00:44:40
What kills the mosquitoes in the water? 00:44:45
As opposed to the truck spraying around in your neighborhood. So we're far more effective. 00:44:47
At getting them in the larval state than we are in the adult stage, just to give you an idea. 00:44:52
An adult mosquito and adult female mosquito that is bitten, say bread for example, can lay up to 300 eggs each time that it. 00:44:57
Goes the way it takes so and that can happen multiple times depending on the species. So it's far more effective to kill them in 00:45:05
the water like I said. 00:45:09
This proactive data-driven shift has made our program stronger. 00:45:14
More efficient and better at reducing mosquito populations with fewer chemicals like I mentioned before. 00:45:18
Here's what our team is actively doing in Vineyard throughout the season. So those little yellow dots represent the five traps 00:45:26
that we have surrounding your city. 00:45:30
And we do weekly mosquito traps, species identification, West Nile virus testing. 00:45:35
And GIS mapping to track to track mosquito trends. 00:45:41
Again, larviciding, treating standing water using drones, field crews and biking teams. 00:45:46
When I say biking teams, we have teams. 00:45:53
Treat about 45,000 catch basins and gutters throughout the county. They ride bicycles all summer long and put chemicals into your. 00:45:55
Into your storm drain, so because there's a lot of Culex Pippians what your vectors for West Nile that are specific to those storm 00:46:02
drains. It's like the environment they love so. 00:46:07
And again, adult deciding we talked about it a little bit. We also use truck mounted fogging. 00:46:14
Use selectively only when our TRAP counts, virus detection, or public health thresholds are met. 00:46:18
Think it's important to understand that we have thresholds and we will not spray until those are met. 00:46:24
To give you an example, this is all on our website but. 00:46:29
To give you an example, we won't call the plane in until we have a threshold of about 1000 mosquitoes on the lake edge in one of 00:46:32
those traps. 00:46:36
Before that, we try and prevent. 00:46:40
The best we can with the trucks. 00:46:42
Our field workers and things like that, but we do have thresholds put in place. We're not just spraying all over, all over the 00:46:44
place all the time. So it's important to understand that. So the flying. 00:46:48
Has a different threshold than the trucks. Say it again, The flying has a different threshold than the truck, yes. So the trucks, 00:46:53
we're constantly doing surveillance and our thresholds for the trucks are actually pretty small. 00:47:00
Anything over 50 adult mosquitoes in our traps kind of triggers. 00:47:07
A response to go inspect the breeding sites and in fact, if we find a lot of larvae or we're finding a lot of. 00:47:12
Adults in the area, we will spray with the trucks. 00:47:19
With your targeted drone abatement that you guys have been doing at the main core sites, have you had to use your planes? I 00:47:23
haven't seen them out a lot. So last year we did about 7 air sprays for the whole for the whole season. It cost us quite a bit of 00:47:29
money. It's about $10,000 for us to do an airspace. 00:47:34
So this is where the drones actually. 00:47:40
Helped mitigate that. It used to be upwards of like 1012 airspace a summer so. 00:47:43
We do see a significant reduction with the drones and the technology that we're using. 00:47:48
Again, we want to be conscious of what chemicals we're using. 00:47:53
A lot of them are. 00:47:56
Being restricted by the EPA for obvious reasons. So we're trying to adapt and find out things that work. 00:47:57
You know, to keep us environmentally sound. 00:48:04
So I can answer your question. 00:48:06
Thank you. 00:48:08
Just going to go over a couple of the treatments that we do provide. I touched on this a little bit, but we provide. 00:48:10
The larva siding, which is the ones in the water. 00:48:14
Treatment of larvae in water using safe biological agents. Treating of storm drains and catch basins using the same type of 00:48:18
material or, excuse me, chemical. 00:48:22
When I say chemical, just keep in mind this stuff is very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:27
In fact, we put it in horse troughs, things that, things that wildlife drink out of. It's very specific to the mosquito gut. 00:48:32
It's a bacteria that they consume that Burrows a hole through their stomach. 00:48:38
It's on the micro, you know, like on a. 00:48:42
Pretty microscopic level so it doesn't affect hardly anything else other than the mosquitoes. Some some black by black fly Largo, 00:48:44
but it's very specific to mosquitoes. 00:48:48
That's what we're putting in all the catch basins. 00:48:54
Storm drains as well, so. 00:48:56
We also use this is the, this is the product I'm talking about. It's called Ectomax. This is what we primarily use in our drone. 00:48:58
We treated about 3500 acres last year with the drone, which is about a 300% increase. 00:49:04
From traditional methods since 2022. 00:49:10
Did you say the the base? Oh, there's your active. Agreed Permethrin based. 00:49:14
Yeah, so this one's this one right here is actually a methoprene based I believe methoprene, the Vectomax is a BTI, which is the 00:49:19
bacterial spores. If you guys care to know, I can tell you a quick story. It's actually it was discovered in Israel about. 00:49:27
Years ago. 00:49:35
There was number speaking no mosquitoes in this particular area and they found the bacteria in the mud next to this pond. 00:49:36
And they've actually utilized that bacteria to make make these naturally occurring. 00:49:42
I call them chemicals, but this is just a bacteria, this one specifically. 00:49:48
Is there have we have they moved away 100% from no use of Permethrin? 00:49:52
No, we still use the permit there and that's going to be in your trucks, that kind of thing, OK. 00:49:57
We use. That's what I thought, yeah. 00:50:02
A lot of permits are in. 00:50:05
And some I'll cover that right here actually. So the trucks are still doing permit through base, yes, OK, which is right here. So 00:50:06
we use the Xanax ready to use which is the excuse me, it's a pyrethroid. 00:50:13
OK. Yeah, very similar family. 00:50:20
So this will use in the trucks. If you guys care to know, it's a Zen of XE4 we're trying to get. 00:50:26
I mean, it's not that we don't want it necessarily spray the trucks, but like I said before, we're trying to get to the source of 00:50:31
the problem, which is in the water, which is I think everyone can agree is. 00:50:36
A lot safer for the environment. 00:50:41
Kind of prevents a lot of people from getting mad at us for what we're doing in the neighborhood, so. 00:50:44
With the trucks. 00:50:49
OK. Any questions about the chemicals we used before? 00:50:52
Earth thresholds or anything? 00:50:55
OK, I'm going to talk a little bit about. 00:50:58
I'm going to briefly mention the. 00:51:01
Mitch flies and they what they call chinch bugs. 00:51:03
While these insects can be frustrating, especially near lakes and new developments, they are not a disease vector. 00:51:06
And they actually fall outside of our mosquito abatement program. 00:51:13
They are annoying. 00:51:16
I agree with you guys, but they're they're not something that we're trying to control. 00:51:19
However, they do kind of, you know. 00:51:23
They have some control when we do the truck spring. 00:51:25
Because the truck is an active, the way that it works is if it's the wings. 00:51:28
It'll pretty much get into their nervous system and then. 00:51:32
And take him out so. 00:51:34
That said, we absolutely care about the community's concerns and I'm happy to point residents towards. 00:51:36
Resources and strategies for mitigating those pests. 00:51:42
Just a couple of quick examples. 00:51:45
Limiting outdoor lighting at night. 00:51:48
Midges are strongly attracted to lights using motion activated lighting. 00:51:52
Warm colored bulbs or installing light Shields to reduce attraction could help. 00:51:56
You can keep your windows and doors sealed. 00:52:01
Install or repair windows, screens or door sweeps. 00:52:04
Midges are small and can slip through those gaps. 00:52:07
And this goes along with mosquitoes as well, but reduce any moisture around your property. 00:52:11
You know, fix leaky faucets standing water. 00:52:16
Gutters, things like that, that are collecting water, they can breed in those as well. 00:52:19
So that the change bugs. Specifically, they're more of like a. 00:52:25
A common garden pest or like your lawn pest, they actually. 00:52:29
Reside in your lawns more than anything else, so your actual grass eating. 00:52:33
That so again, it's something we don't necessarily target, but it's something that if your lawn's turning brown, that's probably 00:52:37
what's happening. So my suggestion would be to get. 00:52:41
Maybe these local pest control companies that do. 00:52:46
OK, just so everyone kind of understands the difference, the mosquito on the left has a proboscis. 00:52:53
It's basically what they used to. 00:52:59
Seek their blood meal. 00:53:02
The Mitch flies, they do look similar, but they're not the same thing. So if you can. 00:53:03
It's hard to tell unless you're kind of up close, but usually. 00:53:08
Mitch flies are going to be more day active and obviously those are more towards the evening time. 00:53:11
We'll talk a little bit about Mitch Flies. 00:53:18
They form large columns that circle upward like that picture. 00:53:21
They're attracted to light. 00:53:25
They will fly in the day and night. 00:53:27
The larvae actually develop in the mud. 00:53:29
Of Utah lake not necessarily the same places as. 00:53:33
Mosquitoes do, which is in the wetland habitat, so. 00:53:36
A lot of these Mitch flies are actually coming from the late edge itself. And we do, we do some mosquito Bateman on the lake edge, 00:53:39
but most of it's in these, you know, the wetland areas, the breeding sites that like the floodplains of the lake. 00:53:44
So that that's what I'm concerned about because the mud, the mud plane is next door to Utah City. And so yeah, biggest concern has 00:53:50
been. 00:53:55
But you're not targeting Mitch flies. No, we don't. That's what. 00:53:59
Right. And that's why I like keep saying it's like, how is that problem? 00:54:04
I wish they were here because I keep saying that like, sure, that's not going away. 00:54:09
Yeah. And I think it's important to understand that it's probably not going to, right? We live next to the lake it's going to be 00:54:14
part of. 00:54:17
Vineyard City and living next to the lake I think is as long as. 00:54:21
As long as it is a problem, but I don't there's not really a solution for Mitch flies themselves. But we are working hard to make 00:54:26
sure the mosquitoes are not a problem. Well, let me think it's important. I think it's important to point out that you are focused 00:54:30
on. 00:54:35
Umm, things that do spread disease correct, But there are results for things like cinch bugs and mesh flies if. 00:54:41
People were to focus on them. 00:54:50
It's just not what you're focusing on because it's about disease. Exactly right. And I get that, but like. 00:54:52
We're trying to get thousands of people to come to an outside area, you know, have a downtown. And like we keep saying, oh, the 00:55:00
county will because the population will come up. And I'm like, I don't think they even target it. 00:55:05
This is a point of order I want to make sure that we're focusing on. 00:55:11
Take some time and talking about what you're doing, but you did mention that if you are. 00:55:15
Residents or our downtown or anybody had questions about abatement of those types that you could get this information? 00:55:20
I don't have any links or QR codes. 00:55:28
A lot of our information can be found on our website. My plan is to post a little bit of. 00:55:32
You know the issues we're dealing with mid flies and options for you. 00:55:38
There's just not a whole lot we can do. They are kind of bystanders and what we. 00:55:43
Dudes, I mean for for you, I'll be spring and they happen to be out. They will die. But that's not what we're actually going to 00:55:47
focus on. You know, I can't just come to your your parks and spray Mitch buys because it's a it's a nuisance type of thing. But 00:55:53
the vectors for sure. There are companies out there. In fact, my previous employer about nine years ago. 00:56:00
You guys could probably reach out to them. I know they did a little bit of Mitch Fly abatement efforts. 00:56:07
On the North End of the lake. 00:56:12
It's called VDCI, or Vector Disease Control International. 00:56:14
I don't know how effective it was, it was after my time there, but they did do some similar similar treatments like we do, like 00:56:18
larvae siding. 00:56:22
For the Mitch Fly Largo themselves, but I don't know how effective it was. Do you guys, do you guys measure the mud plant is like 00:56:27
into the lake because like. 00:56:31
Right out from. 00:56:36
Even the new City Hall is. 00:56:38
Like 400 yards of mud, like it's the three. I mean, it's not been known for 50 years. That's where it's at like. 00:56:41
Right, the only thing we really monitor is. 00:56:49
Floodplains and the lake. 00:56:51
OK, because forestry, fire and state land, it's like, you know, there and we get all of our information from like the Century Utah 00:56:53
Water Project, that kind of thing. We don't actually do it ourselves. 00:56:58
That data off of kind of partners websites, so. 00:57:03
Any more questions on Mitch? 00:57:08
No. OK. So mosquitoes, I mean you guys are pretty aware of what they do, but they become become aggressive fighters at sundown. 00:57:09
For a few hours and then go back to bed. 00:57:16
They sleep, they seek blood, meals, they're they're attracted to CO2 and light. 00:57:18
And they lay their eggs mainly in stagnant water, not necessarily by the lake. 00:57:22
On the lake edge, I should say, but yes. Does that make sense? More on the flood plains and the wetlands, yeah. 00:57:28
And most importantly, like we covered their, their, their carriers of diseases, so. 00:57:33
OK. So today with the strength of our larvicide program, enhanced surveillance and better resource management. 00:57:38
We are very confident in our abilities to provide science based. 00:57:45
Environmentally responsible mosquito abatement to your city. 00:57:49
With a focus on larvae siding now being the backbone of our efforts. 00:57:54
It's more targeted, longer lasting, and highly effective at keeping mosquito populations low. 00:57:58
And another point I want to mention is. 00:58:04
We're committed to treating every city, including Vineyard. 00:58:07
With the same high level standard guided by science and data. 00:58:10
This ensures kind of like fairness among the whole the Coke County. 00:58:14
We take you guys. 00:58:18
Numbers and everything into consideration and obviously if they're higher, we're going to prioritize you. 00:58:20
But we can't necessarily just be at your back end call specifically. Does that make sense? It's all track based. We've got we've 00:58:25
got numbers to. 00:58:28
To help us make those decisions so. 00:58:32
You know I. 00:58:35
I'm glad that you're being honest with that because having been here for 40 years. 00:58:37
There was just call, call, call and I'm like. 00:58:41
Guys, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, that's that's what we that's not the sign, right? And if you can't, you just don't. 00:58:44
We don't want to give a false. 00:58:50
Premise of. 00:58:52
It's important. Now keep in mind, we do. 00:58:54
We do want the residents, including everybody here that we want you to submit service request. 00:58:58
Which helps with our surveillance, but we also don't want 1000. 00:59:03
Yeah, so. 00:59:07
Well, and I think the great thing is that in the past you've done spot treatments, but like you were going to talk about a little 00:59:08
bit tonight, we integrate your services with our services. 00:59:12
And so there is that joint effort that we're doing together. Yeah. And I'll actually cover that here in just a minute, but. 00:59:18
Just to give you guys an idea of what we've accomplished the last couple years with the technology advancements. 00:59:25
We've actually reduced our field workers by two. 00:59:30
And we fight. 00:59:33
By doing all the technology advancements, we were actually able to check about. 00:59:35
200% more spots than we previously have since 2020. 00:59:39
It should be a lot of that to the drone work and things like that, being more precise with our targeting. 00:59:43
What does this mean for you guys moving forward? 00:59:51
We're going to continue trapping, treating and monitoring vineyards just as we always have. 00:59:54
We will treat to the maximum allowable rates under product labels when justified by data. 00:59:59
And we will remain fully committed to protecting Vineyard residents. 01:00:04
It's our understanding that you have some funds set aside to aid us in this fight against the fight. 01:00:09
And we are excited to support Vineyard City in utilizing these resources, whether that's enhancing public outreach, hosting 01:00:14
educational events, organizing school presentations. 01:00:19
I'm happy to help with all of this. I know you guys have a little bit of funding put aside and I've got three sources to do it. 01:00:24
I just don't necessarily have the manpower so. 01:00:30
If you guys want to go that right, I'm happy to help you as well. 01:00:34
Thank you. 01:00:37
Almost done. Sorry, I'm probably taking a little longer. I should. What can you guys do? That being said, we're here for a few 01:00:37
ways you guys can protect yourselves so. 01:00:42
Eliminating standing water around your home. 01:00:47
Is key and it serves as a breeding ground for mosquitoes or a can additionally. 01:00:49
When spending time outdoors, let's make sure we wear proper clothing for that long. Loose fitting types of. 01:00:54
Articles of clothing will help. 01:01:02
That's pretty much it at this point. I don't want to take up too much more of you guys this time, but if you have any. 01:01:05
Questions for him I have to answer. I think I've answered most of them, but. 01:01:11
We can always communicate by e-mail and. 01:01:14
Things of that nature as well. But thank you for everything you guys have done for us over the years and hopefully I can be a. 01:01:16
A good replacement for Dan and a good partnership moving forward. No, we appreciate it. We're really excited about it and we we 01:01:22
appreciate the. 01:01:25
Multi prong approach that you guys take, we're coming in educating us so that we can help individuals take care of their needs and 01:01:29
then integrating your services and extending with our services so that we can. 01:01:36
Hit this as we. 01:01:44
From every angle as we build our community. 01:01:46
I remember when I first moved here and had to run. 01:01:49
Through the neighborhood when a certain, when you know 8:00 hit and it's so different now and your approach is a lot different, 01:01:52
it's very exciting so. 01:01:57
Umm, I am really grateful that your guys approach is shifting towards larvae and you know. 01:02:05
Because that's the science that we've all known. 01:02:11
My experience of it has been different with mosquitoes. 01:02:15
I was here pre development and all of the wetlands were pastures. 01:02:18
And so because of that and. 01:02:23
And vegetation was eaten down short. 01:02:26
Meaning the sun could get to the soil, the soil could dry out. 01:02:29
Or pool in open water. Open water allowed birds and others to eat it. 01:02:34
And until I was 18, we weren't known as the Mosquito Capital world. 01:02:39
And then and then out of blue. 01:02:43
When developers came in. 01:02:46
The promises of maintaining those pastures. 01:02:48
And having senses. 01:02:52
Put around them and maintained. 01:02:53
To not have that. 01:02:56
Our wetland corridor is jungle and though it looks beautiful, with really tall weeds. 01:02:58
It's infestation. Infestation of our larvae. 01:03:03
Yeah, and we drive by it. 01:03:06
And with our chemicals? 01:03:09
Thinking that. 01:03:12
We're going to kill the ones that are flying when thousands of them are sitting there being born for. 01:03:13
48 hours later. 01:03:18
Could we do you guys help cities put together? 01:03:20
Umm, I know infrastructure costs a little bit to get rid of the thatch. 01:03:24
You know, I don't know. 01:03:30
We're talking about many different pastures, the gammon, the ray that I mean, there's different water sources. I don't know what 01:03:32
they're named now in the city, but. 01:03:36
Could you do you help in saying hey for this? 01:03:41
This is what we recommend this because it's cheaper to do it that way. 01:03:45
Yeah, like to put a plan together assuming and I'll have to double check because we all know that. 01:03:49
OK. 01:03:56
That kind of effort is ongoing already, OK. 01:03:59
If you guys wanted to be more involved with that. 01:04:03
I'd welcome that and we can definitely just. 01:04:06
Sure. Yeah, this is, I'm sorry, this is that I'm missing. 01:04:11
You are with our partnership with Utah County Public Health. 01:04:19
Developing our stormwater mash plan and and also working on our stormwater systems for the maintenance cycle and fixing the 01:04:25
detention ponds so there's no outstanding water. Also the residents helping with. 01:04:30
Ensuring that there's no staying longer backyards and of course if they have any questions on that type of things. 01:04:36
This staff I'm sure Utah County is more than welcome to come there. I. 01:04:41
I grew up and worked as power structure for many years and and the mosquito capital of the world, Orlando, FL and there's lots of 01:04:46
ways to mitigate mosquitoes. 01:04:51
In terms of ensuring that you have a healthy sustainable infrastructure and like for example, Disney World has definitely. 01:04:57
Benchmarked the scale control the only maiden skills. They just control mosquitoes over there. 01:05:04
But definitely, uh, uh. 01:05:11
Those type of things like our small master plan, which is in the works right now is definitely kind of on focus on ensuring that 01:05:12
we get our storm water. 01:05:16
It flows properly, all the infrastructure is being maintained. 01:05:20
And then when it goes to Utah, the Utah lake. 01:05:24
When I say development but. 01:05:28
Smart development along Utah. 01:05:29
Will actually help with. 01:05:31
Mosquito control, I wouldn't say elimination. They're a healthy part of our ecosystem. 01:05:33
Yeah. Just just my two cents on that. Yeah. And we've been really grateful for the partnership that you guys have had and Dan has 01:05:38
shared a lot about mapping with us and worked really well with our team. So over the years we've been able to build that so. 01:05:44
Thank you so much for coming and sharing and. 01:05:51
We'll let you go for tonight. We'll come back with garden hooded questions all summer. 01:05:53
So. 01:05:58
All right. Thanks so much, Jason. 01:06:01
All right, Brian, you're back up. 01:06:03
Wait and break that. 01:06:10
Thanks for letting me go twice in one night. 01:06:14
Absolutely. 01:06:17
Let's see. 01:06:41
Wait, maybe just while it's loading, just to give a little bit of background, so. 01:06:51
Some of you may be aware there's been a lot of interest in offering. 01:06:57
Concessions at Grove Park we. 01:07:01
We get people that will just. 01:07:05
Go and sell their own stuff or. 01:07:06
We'll have vendors that will show up in. 01:07:10
Wanting to sell? 01:07:12
And so we really feel like. 01:07:13
It's time to. 01:07:15
Did I do some research and show this to you guys and get your feedback? 01:07:18
As far as what to do with that? 01:07:22
Obviously the goal is to provide something that's. 01:07:28
Effective, safe, fiscally responsible. 01:07:32
Ideally something that's easy to manage. 01:07:36
And, umm. 01:07:39
Allows for residents to come to the park and stay in the park. Want to be there? 01:07:41
Umm, before I jump into potential. 01:07:49
Solutions. I just wanted to show this AI placer. 01:07:52
Data that we have from 2024 at Grove Park. 01:07:57
I just have it specified per two months. 01:08:03
Umm, so between April and September? 01:08:06
Of last year we had about 113,000 visits at Grove Park in particular. 01:08:10
Which if you average that out per day, is about 617. 01:08:17
Visits. 01:08:22
As a long term type solution. 01:08:25
What ideally staff thinks would be great is having a permanent space. 01:08:30
That we could potentially lease out to a contractor. 01:08:36
There's a number of cities that. 01:08:40
That do this or have done this. 01:08:42
Cedar Hills in particular is one that do it, currently at their park with a splash pad. 01:08:45
Umm, but essentially the idea of this would be to build like a 2 to 400 square foot. 01:08:50
Permanent building at Grove Park, just right near the pavilions. 01:08:58
I've overheard from some of these vendors that the ideal location is the 50 yard line, right? So this is like right smack in the 01:09:04
middle of the splash pad. And so for them this would really. 01:09:10
Allow them to. 01:09:17
Be visible and and reach a lot of. 01:09:18
Park visitors. 01:09:21
So essentially. 01:09:24
Umm, the idea is to potentially have them, you know, be the park from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:09:26
They just pay a flat fee. 01:09:34
Rather than upfront, I've actually. 01:09:36
Received words since creating this PowerPoint that. 01:09:39
It would be preferred to do a monthly. 01:09:41
Charge just so that it's not such a big fee right up front. 01:09:43
The nice thing about this is just the fact that it could be a decent revenue source providing. 01:09:50
Concessions to. 01:09:55
The residents that that want. 01:09:57
Options uh. 01:09:59
The reason I say this is a long term solution is because of the cost. 01:10:02
It would potentially cost about 75 to 130,000 for the design and construction work. 01:10:06
Umm And then as far as regulations, some things I think we need to consider is. 01:10:13
Limiting the amount of music, or at least the level of. 01:10:19
Volume, thank you. 01:10:24
Ensuring that we have something in place to prevent them from walking around. 01:10:28
Trying to sell their items to individual members throughout the park. 01:10:34
Not allowing specific signage around the park except for in designated areas. 01:10:38
And then ensuring that the contractor would handle all taxes they would. 01:10:45
Provide proof of fruit. Food handlers permit. 01:10:50
And then also obtain a Vineyard City business license. So that's a potential long term solution we foresee. 01:10:54
In order to justify that. 01:11:00
We have a few short term options. 01:11:04
The first one is to do a food truck permit system. 01:11:07
The idea with this is again that we would just have a specific contracted. 01:11:11
Period of time? Would that be two months or six months? 01:11:17
And umm, we just allowed the food trucks to come. 01:11:20
Any day, at any time between that specific time frame. 01:11:25
So when it works best for them, they just pay a flat fee, ideally monthly. 01:11:30
And these are not set costs. This is just kind of a concept idea, so we don't have to stick to this. 01:11:36
If you guys wanted to go this route, but essentially you could charge, you know, a food truck up to. 01:11:43
$1500 per truck. 01:11:49
For a 2 month period, or if you did all six months, you could triple that. 01:11:51
The benefits of this? 01:11:56
Very low maintenance on. 01:11:58
On stacking side of things. 01:12:00
Umm, you can get a variety of different concession off. 01:12:03
Offerings, right? 01:12:07
Food trucks that offer. 01:12:08
Corndogs Pizza. 01:12:11
Whatever it might be. And then also you have desserts. 01:12:13
Umm, this would be a pretty good revenue source for the city. 01:12:17
Umm, having multiple food trucks would allow several different vendors to be involved. 01:12:22
Umm. And then just. 01:12:29
Kind of some things that would come with that is the fact that. 01:12:33
What I would propose is that we actually restripe the 9:00. 01:12:36
Parking stalls that are on the South of the parking lot at Grove Park. 01:12:42
And we install 4 to 5 bollards. 01:12:46
That would have changed. That would connect them. 01:12:49
That we would then give a key to each of the food trucks that they could come in and then they could leave. So essentially that 01:12:52
area would not be accessible to residents. We would restripe it so that there's three designated areas specifically for food 01:12:57
trucks. 01:13:02
And the specific reasoning for that spot is with it being close to. 01:13:09
A number of of amenities and. 01:13:13
So that's one option. 01:13:17
Option 2 is we allow for a temporary space. 01:13:21
To be leased out to a contractor. 01:13:27
So for example, there's a number of food trucks. 01:13:29
Or vendor companies that have a trailer. 01:13:33
Or a kiosk that they could potentially. 01:13:35
Place at Grove Park, So I sorry, it's kind of hard to see, but just right next to where the Grove Park garage is just on that 01:13:39
southwest side. 01:13:43
Umm, we would have the. 01:13:47
Parks and Public Works team pour a concrete slab there. 01:13:51
That would allow the vendor to then park the kiosk or the trailer. 01:13:55
Right there. 01:14:01
Which would put them right about the 50 yard line. 01:14:02
For, say, for the splash pad. 01:14:07
And then kind of the same idea at 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM. 01:14:10
Probably just have one vendor for the whole summer. 01:14:13
Let's see the pros of this one. Obviously, you wouldn't have to. 01:14:19
Eliminate some of the parking stalls. 01:14:23
Umm, some of the cons. 01:14:26
I mean, you're limiting your. 01:14:28
Variety of concessions that you can offer. 01:14:31
It's only allowing one company. There's gonna be a really high competition with that. 01:14:35
Umm, we would potentially lose a couple trees that are. 01:14:40
Specifically planted in that area. 01:14:43
And then we would have to provide. 01:14:46
Ideally. 01:14:49
For the contractors is provide the utilities that they need for that location, which is estimated about $5000 for us to. 01:14:50
Make that accessible to them. 01:14:58
That's option 2. 01:15:02
Option 3 is just a combination of both. 01:15:03
Umm, so you kind of get maybe the best of both worlds with that, right? You get the. 01:15:07
Food trucks and you get the one that's. 01:15:12
Short term tentative. 01:15:15
Just right there by the splash pad. 01:15:18
Umm. So I'm open to any feedback, questions, thoughts that you guys have on that. So to clarify, option one. 01:15:22
And you could have several businesses going in that one building. 01:15:31
How do you like? Would you have like a window on each side or something or how does that work? 01:15:37
Let's see so. 01:15:42
And so it's not optimum, I'm talking about how you were talking about. 01:15:44
Sorry. 01:15:49
There's the smaller area that would just allow one vendor. 01:15:50
While there's the bigger Shakti, you're saying it would allow multiple vendors? 01:15:53
No. So the shack would just allow only one vendor. 01:15:58
The food trucks, we could have multiple food trucks. 01:16:03
OK, I get what you're saying. 01:16:06
Yeah, but but in the long term solution that would be 1 vendor, but it took a larger space, they could provide more variety. 01:16:08
I think that's what is that what you're trying to get to Marty? There's room for three food trucks on the South end of the parking 01:16:17
lot. There's room for one snack shack on the path that they would. I guess I was just confused by. 01:16:23
The thing that says short term option too. 01:16:29
Maybe I need to understand that one better because I see the smaller. 01:16:32
Lot this. It was the harder one to find. 01:16:36
And you're saying just right there, it's a smaller space that would be more affordable? 01:16:40
Right. And it's just, yeah. So essentially. 01:16:45
Yeah, we would only have just the one vendor, no food trucks. So just the one vendor we would allow. We would pour a concrete 01:16:50
slab. We would bring the utilities over so they have access to power. 01:16:55
And then they would run all the concessions for. 01:17:00
The whole summer. 01:17:03
Knowing that that would probably be limited to probably drinks and maybe shaved ice or just one. 01:17:06
Just a few items in particular. 01:17:12
On the on the short term option. 01:17:15
Just you need more clarity. Well, hold on, hold on, Jake, did you need more clarity? 01:17:18
OK, go ahead on the short term option. 01:17:24
I like it. 01:17:27
To start off with, because let's just test it out and see how profitable and have a conversation with the vendor and see is the 01:17:29
business profitable before you do an investment, right? 01:17:34
But the thing that would be awesome is if. 01:17:39
Think you get power because generators? 01:17:41
At a park and hitting aren't great. 01:17:44
You know, so there's no option. 01:17:47
At that, look right there where it could be temporary. 01:17:49
Give them access to power. Well, there is there, so there's. 01:17:52
Power, they would need to pull it over for them to access that so they're not going through the building. Is there any way we 01:17:57
could do temporary? 01:18:01
But with power and alter your plan to do that so it wouldn't have to be a cloud generator by the pool. 01:18:06
So maybe just to clarify really quick. So with this option, we would bring the utilities that would potentially be about $5000 01:18:14
cost. 01:18:18
But then the potential revenue we would charge from the contract would be about 5000. So we basically break even with this option. 01:18:22
Yes, Jake, yes, this this option does provide that power source so they don't have to run a generator at this site. 01:18:29
Yeah, I can drive to the best. 01:18:37
Don't do anything big. 01:18:39
Give him power. 01:18:40
Allow them to see if it's profitable. 01:18:42
But even then, like let's say it's not, you have power to that location. And chances are during Vineyard days or something, you 01:18:44
might actually need to run different things with power from there anyway, right? You could. 01:18:49
Because right now the power is coming out of the. 01:18:57
Building. 01:18:59
And then would you put a separate meter on that and have them pay it or? 01:19:00
When you ran it or? 01:19:05
Umm, I think we could. 01:19:09
Incorporate something into the contract that would be something we could figure out. 01:19:11
So seeing how you are the Parks and Rec guy. 01:19:18
And you have studied this out what? What's your opinion? 01:19:21
Yeah, I think this would definitely be, I mean. 01:19:25
If it were me, I think it would be valuable to have a combination of both. 01:19:30
Just so that we can kind of compare and see. 01:19:37
What is? 01:19:41
The most effective? 01:19:42
I think that the benefit of this is that it does allow. 01:19:44
Various food options. It's not just limiting to just one. 01:19:48
And I've reached out to several different food vendors and. 01:19:52
Several of them have reached out saying they want to do it. 01:19:57
And so the interest is definitely there. 01:20:01
Umm, this would be my recommendation, but I'm going to. 01:20:06
That one makes it more clean. 01:20:12
Because people love the food trucks and you can bring in a variety of different things to appeal to different people. 01:20:14
This also can help. 01:20:20
Not only cover our costs, but have. 01:20:23
Additional revenue as well, whereas if we just did just the one temporary shack. 01:20:26
We're likely to just break even. 01:20:31
Umm, but then also that could allow us to see what the community is specifically interested in. 01:20:34
Are they interested in just drinks or? 01:20:39
Shaved ice Or are they also interested in corn dogs or churros or? 01:20:42
Pizza, I want to remind you, it's like the food truck permit is this. 01:20:46
Year long or this is just the high season? 01:20:51
So this would just be during the summer months, so between April 1st and September 30th. 01:20:54
Just since those are the most. 01:21:01
I think that would make it worth their time to come to the park. 01:21:03
What are you thinking about bringing this back to us? 01:21:09
Umm, I can do it whenever I was thinking. 01:21:16
The next meeting or potentially the last one in May, OK. 01:21:17
I just want to make sure we were on your timeline so that we can really delve into this and prioritize for the council what they 01:21:21
need to be going back looking at. 01:21:25
Making sure that they're giving feedback to Brian. 01:21:30
So that we can. 01:21:34
Make sure that you're prepared for that. 01:21:36
Yeah, well, you gotta say something. It's $1000 a year up front. 01:21:39
For the food trucks, yes, that's an approximate. So that would be to like install the bollards and. 01:21:46
To restripe the. 01:21:54
In parking stalls and you've got. 01:21:56
I think the thing that I would want is a kind of a, not a commitment. You wouldn't commit a contract or anything like that, but 01:21:58
like. 01:22:01
I don't know how you'd say that MOUMOU or just sort of a. 01:22:05
It's all going to go down to can they be profitable, right? 01:22:10
Yeah, but at the end of the day, we're out. How much we're trying to bring food in. 01:22:17
Just kind of a. 01:22:21
Nice thing, right? Yeah, Amenity. 01:22:23
I'm wanting to implement this this year. 01:22:27
Right now. 01:22:30
If we can, that'd be great. I think the public would love it. 01:22:31
All right. Well, I don't think it has to be immediate, I think. 01:22:36
We can definitely take time. 01:22:40
Over the next month. 01:22:43
OK, Council, why don't you go ahead and look through? 01:22:45
And find your feedback and then Brian, why don't you reach out to the council this week and. 01:22:49
Well, start giving me that feedback to see when we'll pull you back onto the agenda. I'm just gonna save some time for you, Brian. 01:22:55
I think it's great, and I think that I'm excited to see. 01:23:00
Let's move forward so. 01:23:06
That's great. Me too. 01:23:08
OK, well. 01:23:09
Thank you. I'm going to move on to the next one and we will get back to you with our feedback. 01:23:12
Awesome. Thanks, Brian. 01:23:17
Thanks for all of your hard work on that. I know it's a big priority for our residents. 01:23:18
All right, Miss Theme, our Public Works Works director will talk about the CMC Vineyard Center design update. 01:23:24
3. 01:24:08
All right, so thank you to evening council members. 01:24:13
So as the Council, as the RDA and State Council meeting went on and on, I found myself with more time to ask for some more slides. 01:24:16
So. 01:24:21
I really appreciate that. We appreciate the action, Tom. 01:24:26
So no, but it's definitely hard to come after Brian Baldwin. Definitely do respect him and he does a great job with all the 01:24:30
programs he does. 01:24:33
So I always say. 01:24:38
How it works We're always there to support people. Parks Direct, you know they're the face and make everyone happy and thought it 01:24:39
works. 01:24:42
You know, we're happy to be. 01:24:45
You know, helping, helping out. 01:24:47
So doing the Vineyard City, excuse me, the Vineyard Center project update and also talk a little bit about. 01:24:50
Delivery process in regards to. 01:24:57
How the Vineyard Center is progressing forward. 01:25:00
Here, here it is again. It's not just that. It's individual efforts, group efforts. Just recognize a few people. 01:25:04
Who's put a lot of time and effort into this so. 01:25:11
And there we go. OK, so just say overview, we're going to talk about the CMGC process, delivery methods, clarify some procurement 01:25:16
tab. 01:25:20
Procurement processing clients. The benefits of early contractor involvement. 01:25:25
And then jump right into the Vineyard Center project development, and of course, talk about city planning and budgeting practices. 01:25:29
So. 01:25:36
Look kind of exciting. 01:25:38
So first let me just talk about what is the CMGC. 01:25:41
Sometimes I do a tongue twister on that I call GC. 01:25:46
Myself, but it is a construction manager, general contractor. 01:25:49
That's what it stands for. 01:25:54
It's a two phase project delivery method. The first phase is phase #1 reconstruction. 01:25:56
And then phase #2 is construction. So phase #1 deals a lot with design collaboration cost them but. 01:26:00
And Phase 2 is construction, is the actual construction implementation. 01:26:07
A portion of the project and that's again that's usually that's done. 01:26:13
After there's a future based on future approval. 01:26:18
What CMGC? There we go. 01:26:22
It does. Is it provided one of the benefits? It does provide guaranteed maximum price. 01:26:25
Often talk called a GMP. 01:26:29
That's done, and that's given before construction. 01:26:32
It just doesn't allow this. 01:26:35
The municipality, the procurement procurement entity. 01:26:38
To focus on qualify on a qualification based contractor selection. 01:26:42
Oftentimes we go into construction practices. 01:26:48
Low cost, low cost. 01:26:52
Oftentimes. 01:26:54
You know that is. That's not typically the best method. 01:26:56
On there so it does allow for qualification best contractor selection. 01:27:00
Which is how? 01:27:04
Design umm. 01:27:07
Contracts are done. 01:27:08
Is through an RFQ which is request for qualifications versus R. 01:27:09
He requests for proposals. 01:27:14
And the key thing on this is the owner does retain design control. 01:27:17
Over this process. 01:27:21
Oh, there we go. So moving on to what is this CMGC? I sold this. 01:27:24
Chart thank you from the Federal Highway administration who actually. 01:27:35
Advocates for CMGC as a contract method, so the contractor has. 01:27:40
Contractor acts as consulting during the design. 01:27:45
Once the project is completed, the CMGC does did the work, so they are actively bidding to do the job. 01:27:48
So it's not automatic. 01:27:55
Selection of the CMGC. 01:27:57
To do the construction for the work. 01:27:59
This allows the owner to make important decisions throughout the design using the using contractor input. 01:28:02
On that SO. 01:28:09
Pretty nice the benefit and here's the slide that shows about the benefits for for the firm using it on municipal projects. 01:28:11
It does provide early cost certainty through that guaranteed maximum price. 01:28:18
It allows for acceleration of the schedule through a phased delivery. 01:28:22
It's so desired. 01:28:28
One great one nice thing is it does help with risk reduction. 01:28:30
To provide for constructability review and early coordination for construction. 01:28:34
Through the design period I speak, you know, I speak from personal experience. 01:28:40
Having worked as a engineering manager for doing construction designs. 01:28:44
Having it built. 01:28:51
I've often had to send designs back to the design engineer. 01:28:52
To let them know that it looks pretty on paper. But you cannot build this. And that's one engineer from another engineer saying 01:28:56
that your thing is not going to be built. 01:29:00
I had one engineer, so that was their job just to design and my job to design figure out how to build it. 01:29:05
I figured out how to build it by telling the client to get a different engineer. 01:29:10
Ah, they did. 01:29:15
It does allow for fewer change orders and reworking during the construction. 01:29:17
So again, it allows you to spot those issues with those areas where it could be issues. 01:29:21
Construction brings in the subject matter expert construction into the process early on. 01:29:27
And because Jane Doors does happen. 01:29:33
But it's nice to identify what. 01:29:36
What the changes could be before? 01:29:40
It's during before the construction process so it doesn't become a change order. It's part of the design. 01:29:42
Contract collaboration on materials, needs and methods. 01:29:47
Again, means and methods is definitely something that determines the determines the constructability of the project. 01:29:51
Project it does throughout the whole thing, it does provide the public transparency and procurement flexibility. 01:29:56
To say you know. 01:30:02
We're doing the designs being done. 01:30:05
With contractor input to provide for the for better understanding of how to implement. 01:30:07
The project helped to reduce costs. 01:30:13
By taking those future with likely be change orders. 01:30:15
And incorporating them into design early on and allowing the. 01:30:19
Other issues the 2nd 3rd order effects. 01:30:23
Of those change or future change orders to be eliminated by. 01:30:26
Incorporating them into either corporate, into design, or even making good decisions. 01:30:30
You know what? 01:30:35
We're not. We only need to do this because we can do. 01:30:36
That instead. 01:30:38
Talking about purchasing policy like. 01:30:42
On that for, especially for compliance. 01:30:45
Here's a snapshot of our local purchasing policy. The City's purchasing policy update in 2022 sets the guidelines to ensure 01:30:47
transparency. 01:30:51
Efficiency. Legal compliance. 01:30:55
It does specify spending authority by dollar amount. 01:30:58
In regards and for the approvals. 01:31:02
Small purchases made directly through their formal quotes. Higher purchases requires formal bidding. 01:31:06
Public solicitation evaluation. So this is was done in 2022 and just a snapshot of that. 01:31:12
It's more going more in regards to. 01:31:21
The compliance in terms of purchasing or the figuring process? 01:31:26
The Federal Highway Administration, The DLT on the CFR. 01:31:31
To the federal regulations, Title 23. 01:31:35
So forth those Alpha and CMGC contract as a procurement method. 01:31:38
More so. 01:31:44
The Utah code. Procurement code specifically. 01:31:45
Does outline the CMGC? 01:31:48
As a recommend, excuse me, as a procurement method, they also talk about design bit build which is your traditional method. 01:31:50
This as well as design builds. 01:32:00
I have a question. Is anyone arguing that the. 01:32:04
CMGC model on the console. 01:32:08
Having issues with it. Is that why we're getting the presentation for the? No, I'm just going through the going through the 01:32:12
process just to ensure kind of to put the. 01:32:16
To put it out there in regards to obviously MVC incorporates into it. If you'd like me to skip this all together, no, I was just 01:32:20
wondering if there was some controversy or some questions about it like. 01:32:25
That they. 01:32:30
Felt OK. 01:32:31
OK, now I just want and I do. I do recall having done. 01:32:33
A presentation back early in the year when we were doing the. 01:32:38
Design portion of it. 01:32:42
Where I went through the contracting methods and so forth. I felt bad I can't find my slides. 01:32:44
Want to redo the slides just for that reason. 01:32:48
But. 01:32:51
In terms of those, I thought it was appropriate just to kind of put them back in there again, recognizing that we may have people 01:32:52
from the public that may not have been present during my last awesome presentation. 01:32:57
So, umm. 01:33:04
But yeah, so if there's no other questions. 01:33:06
I'll move on. So examples of CMGC and the local government. 01:33:10
Provost City Center built in 2022. 01:33:14
Or city center built. This is recent 2025. 01:33:16
Sovereign focus just on building is also to be used for other type of infrastructure I. 01:33:20
We put up Orem Hillcrest Park was done through CNGC, built in 2023. 01:33:26
There's other methods other examples out there such as the. 01:33:31
A large infrastructure projects bridges. 01:33:35
And highways etc. 01:33:38
So jumping in kind of more into Venice Center specific on the project. 01:33:44
Just to do the recap in terms of. 01:33:48
The timeline for the project on this. 01:33:52
Where the site selection and design portion of it. 01:33:55
I wasn't here for us about back in 2019. 01:33:58
About 1 1/4 acres of land donation. 01:34:02
For City Hall site. 01:34:05
It was an agreement for that back in October 2019. 01:34:07
And that was. 01:34:11
Agreed to be done part of the downtown area in 2000 and April 2020, again prior to my time. 01:34:14
The Town Center and zoning code identified. 01:34:21
The City Hall site being specifically unblock. 01:34:25
Box 6. I, you know, yeah. 01:34:30
So I still use the Google Maps to go around my own city. 01:34:33
Real quick I'm having a hard time like. 01:34:37
Seen the slides, is there any way someone could e-mail it to me real quick so I can look at my computer? 01:34:40
Yeah, I sent you. 01:34:46
Well, I didn't. I said I I OK, sorry. I was just like can't sit over there and I'm getting like glare right here. So it's kind of 01:34:47
hard. I sent them the slides before I had like just. 01:34:53
OK. 01:35:00
So, but kind of moving on to I won't be able to see it I. 01:35:04
It's too small for me. 01:35:08
Thank you for trying. 01:35:10
Sorry, sorry. 01:35:13
All right, so again, back in 2020, the Town Center Arizona and Kodak identified the site in the downtown area, I believe Block 5 01:35:16
if I'm not mistaken. 01:35:21
On that SO. 01:35:26
Fast forwarding to June 2023, the city awarded Nelson Partners for to develop a spatial plan. 01:35:28
And the spatial plan was presented to City Council. 01:35:35
And May 2024. 01:35:39
And then short and a few months later to November 20, 2024. 01:35:41
The city signs that MO signed the Mous. 01:35:46
With MAG Mountain Association governments. 01:35:49
As well as the design services. 01:35:52
RP was posted, so when I say the design services, that's the actual designing of the building. 01:35:54
For construction documents. 01:36:02
That design services was awarded at the studios. 01:36:04
Earlier this year, January 2025. 01:36:08
Some some tourists were done to get a better understanding of. 01:36:11
Needs and requirements with Matt about the association, government and also. 01:36:16
Of our current projects. 01:36:21
Special plans for our. 01:36:22
And we're refined to functional spaces. So instead of taking spatial plans like bubbles on the bubbles on piece of paper and start 01:36:25
making more functional spaces. 01:36:30
Then here is a visual of the veneer center. 01:36:37
Spatial Design. 01:36:42
Decided was showing the site in the downtown area. 01:36:43
Just north of the promenade. 01:36:48
Where we close to where we had our tree event. 01:36:49
Last Friday, so very beautiful area. 01:36:54
That was completed in April 2024. Present the City Council. 01:36:57
And this incorporated a 10 year space requirements plan. 01:37:01
Not just for the biggest city staff. 01:37:05
But also for the mountain association with governments. 01:37:09
And also public use space warehouse, it's, you know. 01:37:13
Possible tenant spaces, council chambers, etc etc. 01:37:18
So again. 01:37:22
As a programming analysis moving forward to what we currently are. 01:37:24
In the process I say draft and process. 01:37:28
Going to. As you can see, this is functional spaces, uh. 01:37:32
You know, spatial. 01:37:37
Designs. 01:37:39
Where the Venice city architecture's design again still being done in coordination with Mountain Association governments inner 01:37:40
city. 01:37:44
Staff were. 01:37:48
And about a 10% design currently. 01:37:50
With, you know, say 10% conceptual. 01:37:52
And ensuring that we have, I mean our 10 year space requirements next slide. 01:37:55
And Councilmember, I know that these are newer slides. 01:38:02
There we go, I love this. 01:38:08
But again, just to kind of blow up again. 01:38:10
Designs and processes at level 1. 01:38:13
Where you see the council chambers on the first floor. 01:38:16
Mountain Association governments or house on the first floor. 01:38:19
Boosts market boosts like areas for markets in the 1st 4. 01:38:23
Pre an area for a conference room kitchen. 01:38:28
When I say kitchen, small kitchen area. 01:38:32
Most council chambers does that for small events as well. 01:38:35
That, you know, cafe seating and, uh. 01:38:40
Really trying to. 01:38:43
Utilize the space for to be able to kind of help intermix the public. 01:38:44
Provide that for the public. Again, this is a work in progress. You may be able to do some. 01:38:50
Functional, other functional spaces in downtown in the first floor as well. So just to clarify, so it looks like we took city 01:38:55
chambers. 01:38:59
I'm sorry, the council chambers from the 2nd floor now it's on the first floor. 01:39:04
That's kind of where we're at. 01:39:08
Was what? 01:39:10
And then we don't have what else? Oh, we don't have the library on the 1st floor anymore. 01:39:12
We don't have to library at all on this. Not this one. Now again, this is a draft design in process. I mean when I say in process. 01:39:17
Bring the salt 10% designs. 01:39:25
OK on here SO. 01:39:27
You mentioned the development agreement 2019. Does anyone have that ready? They just e-mail me. I mentioned development agreement. 01:39:29
The development agreement. 01:39:36
I thought there was an agreement. Oh, it's just an agreement. 01:39:39
So I just mentioned that I wasn't here. So is there like on your slide you said that there was a development agreement in 2019? 01:39:43
I said there was a 2 neck quarter acre land donation for City Hall agreement. 01:39:51
Oh, no development agreement. OK. So just like, hey, one day we'll do this, OK? I did not say that, Sir. 01:39:56
I said that there was an agreement, there was an agreement, land donation for sale agreement in October 2019 and I'll say it 01:40:03
development agreement and I did, I'll say verbal agreement. 01:40:08
I did. I did Preface I thought this was before my time. OK, so I can't speak on exactly what was here before my time. 01:40:14
When we met in April, we hadn't. 01:40:21
There's no land donation agreement in April, though. 01:40:24
Eric right, Like do we have? 01:40:28
The donation agreement. 01:40:30
Yet for the land. 01:40:32
Like the document, are you referring to what was agreed to in in 2019? Or are you referring to a like now? 01:40:35
Or is there? 01:40:44
Well, just in it some sort of MO U or. 01:40:45
Development agreement like. 01:40:48
Even if it's conditional it. 01:40:51
So you're just saying the same record of it, right? Yeah. They're like, hey, this is what we agreed to with the with the zoning 01:40:54
codes. 01:40:57
Well, it's done in code analysis. We we can send you that from 2019 Pam, can you make sure that? 01:41:03
Oh, you have a donation? Agree. 01:41:10
Right. There's whatever that. Yeah, not building. Yeah. OK. Thanks Cash. Thank you. 01:41:13
Did I clarify your question? Yeah. All right. Thank you, Kash. 01:41:19
All right, so kind of going back into my thing. So again, level 1. 01:41:23
Is there any questions on this before me to level 2? 01:41:28
Am I going to dwell too much on each level? Just to go and give you an idea of what's the one that I just wanted to mention is? 01:41:31
People are thinking about it because I know. Marty, are you? 01:41:40
Brought it up once the the. 01:41:42
I'm making an assumption about why the council chambers moved to the first floor. 01:41:44
In my guess is that that's for ADA consideration. 01:41:48
Largely, yes, I mean, so 88 consideration for the first floor, I mean again it removes a lot of barriers. 01:41:52
Say an elevator. 01:42:00
Gets in the way of. 01:42:01
Access. Exactly. Seriously. Yeah, my last city in Florida. 01:42:03
Skilled capital world was. 01:42:08
The council members on the 3rd floor and we had four police officers. 01:42:10
Because we had other areas in City Hall. 01:42:15
Offices over there. 01:42:17
When we did our expansion project there, we moved it to the first floor as it's almost as a separate building, a separate wing. 01:42:19
It was very it was nice and beneficial. 01:42:26
But because again, when the elevator goes down. 01:42:29
It's not appropriate to be carrying someone up and down the stairs. 01:42:33
But OK, so. 01:42:36
So if I understand this correctly as as things have gone on. 01:42:40
Even just from the last meeting, there's been design changes or just. 01:42:44
Adjustments as they've gotten into the weeds on it, Yeah, there's been discussions on the designs and regard in regards to the 01:42:49
needs and so forth. Yes, Sir. 01:42:52
These are requirements. 01:42:56
My understanding too is that there are going to be community outreaches. 01:42:58
Where they where they get public input? Yeah. So yeah, that would be, that's definitely the part. 01:43:01
Discussion in terms of that, really like to take it from more from the 10% design. 01:43:08
To something that's. 01:43:13
I mean if I'm 20% it is on there typically 30% designs is really when you start engaging. 01:43:14
With others like your last. 01:43:20
Other stakeholders out like your outside stakeholders, I'll say about. 01:43:23
Who aren't occupying this space 100%. 01:43:27
At a time, there are, there has been. 01:43:29
Outreach to others like to certain types of stakeholders. 01:43:32
You know, they're actively using it. We get a 30% design and kind of like. 01:43:35
You kind of start. 01:43:39
Like if you're molding, I sculpture out clay. 01:43:41
You know, you just you and then you're like, OK. 01:43:44
What what specific features you want and you really want to set the foundation? 01:43:47
Of the design and then you can start bringing in incorporating things. 01:43:52
On there because now that he said here's our. 01:43:56
I say like this. 01:43:59
I did this for several years. Like you can't say where are your needs. 01:44:01
Determine what the needs are first and then. 01:44:05
That sets up your foundation. Then you go into. 01:44:08
I hate to say wants, but you go into those things that. 01:44:10
Aren't outside those. 01:44:13
Outside this core function needs. 01:44:16
And then you start being able to mold your clay much better. 01:44:18
We're in what's called like the alignment phase. So we're in that initial phase. So things are supposed to change. We're looking 01:44:23
at uses, what are the needs, the facilities you move pieces around, you see what works best for flow and once you get alignment, 01:44:28
so. 01:44:33
An understanding and agreement as far as like where things should go, then the details of the design start, start, then they go in 01:44:38
at the full-fledged architectural process. So right now is an alignment phase. You're going to see things move around as as we we 01:44:42
kind of make those components fit. 01:44:47
And that's that that's what this process is supposed to you're supposed to see changes as the design gets makes more sense of the 01:44:52
flow makes more sense. Yes, he'll take away that pretty well. Jamie, could you pipe in because I know that one of the questions 01:44:57
and I don't. 01:45:02
I guess we asked it after because I really am enjoying going through these different designs. 01:45:08
Maybe let's ask the legal questions after. 01:45:14
Can we keep talking about the design? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. So. 01:45:16
And then, OK, so level 2 on terms of that mostly office space is shared exercise room. 01:45:22
This is with mouth association, governments, bathrooms and so forth. 01:45:29
Office expansion area. 01:45:36
As well. So Level 3 on there would be. 01:45:39
Excuse me, this is a. 01:45:44
Or Max, even your city's offices. 01:45:45
Level 3 with the Mountain Association government's offices. 01:45:53
So they have to share, share, share, break room. So utilizing the partnerships. 01:45:57
To show, to share those. 01:46:02
Areas that would be. 01:46:05
Overlapping. 01:46:06
And then? 01:46:09
Level 4, which is kind of like your event space. 01:46:10
You know, very, very, very popular with the public stuff. And again, my lost city. 01:46:14
We actually had a separate building that was on the lake. 01:46:18
You know, the nice thing about italic versus my losses, like is there's no alligators in italic. 01:46:22
Not yet, but yeah, but. 01:46:29
About that, yeah, that, that and that and that's we, you know, we had a restaurant we rented out. We rented out the restaurant 01:46:33
space in the very bottom. Then we had the whole top floor as an event space and. 01:46:38
It was, it was very nice. We had some weddings there and so forth, so. 01:46:43
So that's the same kind of. 01:46:48
I said that earlier right there. 01:46:50
And then I kind of go into time. 01:46:53
Moving into the CMGC on phase one timeline just so you have an understanding about. 01:46:56
How the how the process moves forward. CNBC. 01:47:01
Has been posted back in March. 01:47:06
And then City Council awards the CMGC contract. This will give realizes, kind of. 01:47:09
Approximate approximately staff, we've gone through the proposals. 01:47:13
RCMGC. 01:47:18
On that and then well if you know after the contract's been awarded. 01:47:20
That CMGC. 01:47:25
Consultant Contractor. 01:47:27
Slash consultant? Really. 01:47:29
It provides as a budget framework to say, OK here is good understands like where the budgets. 01:47:30
Kind of understanding the budgets and how the framework works. 01:47:36
But then moving on to. 01:47:39
Building plan development really getting focused. 01:47:41
Incorporated as part of the design team to start working on those building plans like. 01:47:43
You know the the architect says oh be so awesome to do this. 01:47:48
You know, skyscraper. 01:47:52
Like toothpick type. 01:47:56
Foundations and the contractor can be like, now you're dreaming that. 01:47:58
That's going to be like the cost is really high. It's hard to build. 01:48:03
And such. 01:48:06
But moving on the cost estimating, you know? 01:48:09
Based on a timeline, we're approximately approximately August of 2025. 01:48:13
We can get come up with a. 01:48:18
Guaranteed maximum price. 01:48:21
For that facility construction documents, we're looking at September, November 2025. 01:48:24
And then this does not include all the public engagements in the in the middle. 01:48:29
I don't want to admit to that since I'm driving that with the car train. 01:48:35
But we will have November, December 2025 or City Council. 01:48:40
Has approval the project plans? 01:48:45
Then the last step of this phase is ending the. 01:48:47
Phase of the CNC which is the pre construction phase about December 2025. 01:48:53
Here again there are P. 01:48:58
Excuse me, the RFP that we posted. 01:49:01
As in two phases. 01:49:04
Reconstruction phase, where the CMGC is collaborating closely with architects of the inner city. 01:49:05
Staff and appointed project team. 01:49:11
The support is this actual successful design and delivery of the project list their responsibilities and. 01:49:14
It talks about the process, the pre construction services process. 01:49:21
Order 92 program development budget estimates value engineering for computer. 01:49:26
Implementation like logistics of how those things really workout. 01:49:30
Moving on, this is just a rough timeline. 01:49:35
For the Phase 2. 01:49:38
Because obviously there's no the phase two-part of it. 01:49:39
Is further out than there, but we have, you know. 01:49:45
We City Council would approve a phase two for the construction. 01:49:48
Going to project mobilization facility. 01:49:52
Exterior vertical. 01:49:56
Construction doing the interior side finishes project closeout and then. 01:49:58
So. 01:50:04
I won't spend too much time but. 01:50:05
The benefits to that this is this was taken from my last presentation. I did find this. 01:50:07
For my last presentation between different types of care methods. 01:50:13
And then you can see all those dollar signs. Those dollar signs doesn't mean. 01:50:16
You know, that's money. That's, you know, that's costing money. It's about cost development. 01:50:20
So your traditional method is on the build. 01:50:25
Your cost development is nowhere on that timeline. 01:50:29
Your design build. You have cost development during your procurement stage, Your CMGC. 01:50:33
In your class, development is in multiple stages throughout the design throughout the design process. 01:50:38
And why is that important? We talked about that a little bit before about change orders. 01:50:43
Here's your classics. Classics 5 and change orders. 01:50:48
And when you start the construction process. 01:50:52
Oscar significantly off. 01:50:54
On on that. 01:50:57
Alive and what this does is this helps us align with the physical responsibility and planning. 01:51:00
How supports the short term and long term range for capital planning using PPE? 01:51:04
PPE Seasoning. 01:51:10
Planning, planning, programming, budget, execution process. 01:51:12
AIDS and capital project budgeting. There's no construction funds are committed. 01:51:16
To this voice inflationary costs and delays by allowing us to foresee. 01:51:20
How the market is going? 01:51:26
House of grassroots readiness because a lot of times with the grandkids of grasses. Do you have design do you have you know what 01:51:28
is your cost realistic. 01:51:31
They don't want to worth money when there is. 01:51:34
Uncertainty. Uh. 01:51:37
Of those things they want, they want a word. 01:51:38
Money to entities are going to be sick to have a successful project. 01:51:43
And of course, it protects past planning investments. 01:51:47
Why would the PPE just put it out there is? 01:51:51
Is important with the PPE? Is the planning, programming, the budget? 01:51:55
And execution is a staple standard in the federal process. 01:52:00
Engineers manager. You know, engineers, management, planning, budgeting. 01:52:04
Annotation infrastructure projects. 01:52:09
Includes managing the projects throughout the wide circle. Initial planning designed to construction maintenance. 01:52:11
So this often involves managing facilities and construction. I've said for military bases installation. The reason I say that is. 01:52:17
Large organizations. 01:52:25
Have people dedicated to this process, especially the planning, programming, budgeting portion of that. 01:52:27
You know, that's very key to the foundation. 01:52:32
And I was one of those engineers. There we go. 01:52:35
I found that one so. 01:52:38
I was wondering. 01:52:40
Again, I spend my Bellas my job was to make sure that. 01:52:42
Projects were being planned, programmed and budgeted properly. 01:52:45
So. 01:52:49
That's it. Any specific questions that a cache is here I'll get Cash has been a key player to this. 01:52:53
On this cell. 01:52:58
Tash, could you talk about the changes in the design that were presented like just? 01:53:00
Because I know that we've been talking about. 01:53:06
It's, I mean, clearly it's changed from. 01:53:10
The Nelson Partners picture. 01:53:13
Page, and then it's different on the next page. Yeah. So a key part of the spatial design is essentially like when Nelson came, 01:53:16
they met with staff here, they met with Mag, they said what kind of space do you guys need? 01:53:22
And in doing so, they're able to come up with some rough square footages and they're able to kind of put it in the building there. 01:53:28
And that's what they left us with was essentially this design thing, you know, we want roughly 7000 square feet of. 01:53:33
Vent space mag needs 16,700 when you got whatever. 01:53:39
And that was a good starting point. So we essentially gave this to Method Studios Architects and said we need to refine this a 01:53:45
bit, we need to. 01:53:49
Potentially do this again. And so I worked with with the architects and we sat down with each department director and said in the 01:53:52
next 5-10, fifteen, 20 years, what does your growth look like as we continue to expand as a city? 01:53:58
And we were able to chart that out to show kind of what our staff needs will be in the next few years. 01:54:05
And so that's where they're able to get this. 01:54:11
New footprint is based off of that document that we've created and essentially what you can do is. 01:54:13
For every person that you have, you have to have X amount of square feet. 01:54:19
Space for their office or their cubicle. 01:54:22
And so that's what kind of dictates the floor plate here. 01:54:25
But the the design currently like is the top right green is, is the vineyard offices so far where we're looking at doing that in a 01:54:29
phased approach because we don't necessarily need the entire floor immediately. 01:54:34
You know, this, this building will service us for, you know, decades. And so the idea is, you know, we could start on the left 01:54:40
half and build that out and then as staff continues to grow, we could build that right half. We're still working through these 01:54:44
kind of. 01:54:48
Ideas. Everything's just an idea at this point. 01:54:52
But same thing, we have the idea of, oh, could we do the library here? And so we kind of floated around what that would look like 01:54:56
on the ground floor. We met with the library board yesterday to kind of discuss these options and it looks like they don't prefer 01:55:00
this method. 01:55:04
Or having it at this location. And so we've kind of told the the architect to steer away from that that we. 01:55:09
We'll find a way to activate some library space here, but not the library. 01:55:15
And so now we're more into the details of, especially on the ground floor, you'll see they're just kind of a lot of purple space. 01:55:20
Like what do we do in that area specifically? 01:55:24
To make sure that we're programming it to our best ability. 01:55:29
And just to clarify. 01:55:34
So I know, I know this is conceptual, but. 01:55:37
In general, that footprint of the building is about the same, right? It's not. 01:55:40
From the Nelson partners, it might be a little bit larger as a footprint of the building, but then of some partners I believe did 01:55:46
have us going. Four stories complete. 01:55:51
And if you'll notice on this latest plan actually. 01:55:56
Oh sorry, on this plan here, the level 4 we actually took off most of that top floor where it would just be event based in a large 01:55:58
patio. 01:56:03
Pet Your space is a lot cheaper to build out and so we thought we could create this really cool event space that could be kind of 01:56:07
an indoor outdoor function. 01:56:11
And so that's the idea that we're moving towards now. We have still have you know, the capabilities for great event space, but 01:56:15
also be able to be outside and see the promenade, see the lake, see the mountains. 01:56:20
At an affordable price and that would eliminate the flex office space, right? Correct. That would do away with that leasing space. 01:56:25
On the top floor. 01:56:32
OK. And then? 01:56:33
I think those answered my big questions. Can I just? 01:56:39
Laugh at something. 01:56:42
In this image. 01:56:44
Jake, this is for you. 01:56:46
I thought it said Jakes use. 01:56:48
It says lake views, but I was like, oh, cool. Like I thought Naseem put a like a little joke in there or something today. But 01:56:51
yeah, I know. The site is actually really, really nice because it is right on the Vineyard connector and you'll have the next 01:56:58
block of the promenade on the other side, so it'll be pretty unobstructed views of the lake. 01:57:04
And then we went with that L shape and that helps bring more views to the mountains as well as connects us closer to the parking 01:57:10
garage as well compared to the Nelson Partners design. 01:57:15
OK. 01:57:20
Thank you, that answers my question. This location was meant to be near the Aquatic Center. 01:57:23
Do we have anything that shows? 01:57:28
I don't know if you have anything, but where my mouse is, right here is where the Aquatic Center is. If you go out there and you 01:57:31
can access this road today, there's a road right here that will actually be being deconstructed and that will actually let us be 01:57:37
able to extend the promenade to the front doors of the building here, which will be a really neat experience. So the park that 01:57:42
they're mentioning like that. 01:57:48
Hot air balloon will be right down here where my mouse is at. 01:57:54
So this will be connected directly onto the promenade. Thank you. 01:57:58
I have legal questions. 01:58:05
I Before we get into legal. 01:58:08
So with that, that you just showed we will not know a price, a definitive price until August ish. Yes and no. I defended the 01:58:10
price, correct. What what essentially we've done is, is with these numbers that we've given with architects and we're going to 01:58:15
have this many employees. 01:58:20
They're able to use previous buildings that are architects are the same ones who designed Orem and I believe they designed Provo 01:58:25
as well. And they're able to just look at those and say those came in at around. 01:58:30
X amount of dollars per square foot and they're able to provide us with a rough number that we can then use to use in our CMDC 01:58:35
contract. But yeah, in terms of. 01:58:39
Pricing for stuff we just don't know right now with. 01:58:43
With buying stuff, you know, tariffs and all that could change things and so that's why we're bringing on the CNGC contract 01:58:46
earlier on. 01:58:49
So we can involve them. 01:58:52
And get that pricing figured out so we do get an actual cost sooner than later. 01:58:54
You look like you have something to say that in addition to using those comparables which are. 01:58:59
Very current Oram just opened their doors this last week. 01:59:04
They also add an escalation to that. 01:59:09
That includes. 01:59:11
Any inflation and estimated. 01:59:13
Increases in a potential cost. 01:59:15
So that the number is quite accurate. 01:59:17
And give us that ballpark range in which we can. 01:59:21
Set a range right now. 01:59:23
To plug in all of our numbers and have a very close estimate on what our. 01:59:26
Anticipated annual cost would be. 01:59:32
What Mags anticipated the annual cost would be plug in the. 01:59:34
The dollars that we have available for. 01:59:38
Upfront investment and and then land on a very. 01:59:40
A pretty tight range for what our potential bond. 01:59:46
Amount would be. 01:59:49
So that's great. Are you at what point? 01:59:50
Because I know that with some of these changes. 01:59:53
That we're looking at a lower cost. 01:59:57
Bond. So at what point are you going to feel comfortable sharing? Or can you share rough numbers? Sure. 02:00:00
Because I would really like to understand. What I would want from you is I want. 02:00:06
What we've already spent. 02:00:10
What we umm. 02:00:12
Like where we are to this point, I guess including everything. And then I want to know if it's adjusting the bond. Did you want to 02:00:14
ask your legal questions first? No, we can ask this first. 02:00:18
Great. So, yes, we do have those numbers. Our estimate right now is that our bond would be in the ballpark of 16 and a half 02:00:24
million to 18 and a half million. 02:00:28
As far as cash invested so far? 02:00:34
Today we have 1.5 million committed to the architecture and engineering project. 02:00:37
We anticipate. 02:00:45
Mag to put their their full amount 8 million. 02:00:47
We anticipate as a city putting in the three million that we had set aside for. 02:00:53
The the building. 02:00:59
And that would go in part towards this, this engineering contract that we have today. 02:01:00
It would go in part towards the. 02:01:07
The CNBC contract. 02:01:09
And then the remainder would go in as cash for the construction project up front, so. 02:01:11
Our investment would be 3 million. 02:01:17
Mags would be closer to 9 million because they have. 02:01:19
Approximately half a million for the engineering. 02:01:23
Half a million. 02:01:27
For the CMDC. 02:01:28
And then the remaining 8 million towards the. 02:01:31
Initial. 02:01:35
At dollars there. 02:01:37
So what does that make the total cost of the whole project? 02:01:39
For including that total cost of the project were ballparking somewhere in the 29 to 31. 02:01:41
Million. And then you're saying the range it's at right now is 28 to 3128 to 31? 02:01:49
OK. And then? 02:01:59
So to clarify, could you? 02:02:00
Sorry, let me see. So 28 to 31 is what you just said. 02:02:03
So then the bond, because we've already put, so we've already spent 1.5. 02:02:07
And then you'd be putting 3 down South. You're saying that out of our current budget, we're putting 4 point. These are all rough 02:02:13
numbers, 4.5 million total city investment 3. 02:02:18
Oh, that would include the 1.5. 02:02:24
OK. And from what from what I understand from you is that? 02:02:26
The current actual estimates are the lower area, but you're putting in a range to account for any changes. 02:02:31
So the 28 is where it's at right now. 02:02:39
The range is in case those numbers change as you continue to design and go through this process that we're going through. 02:02:41
So right now the actual estimates are the close estimates are closer to the lower range that they're creating that buffer. Yep, 02:02:48
and and and including an escalation in there so that we can. 02:02:54
Account for some of those variations in costs. 02:03:00
So, so that, so again, it's reiterate. 02:03:03
The city would put 3. 02:03:06
Mag would put 9. 02:03:08
Of those dollars? 02:03:10
We anticipate. 02:03:13
Approximately 3,000,000 total. 02:03:15
In soft cost so. 02:03:18
The city currently where they're just dividing it for simplicity with 2/3. 02:03:20
City 1/3 mag. The actual ratio is closer to. 02:03:27
Who knows them off hand? 54 and. 02:03:31
46. 02:03:36
Something like that of the ratio between mag and city space. 02:03:37
So 54% study space, They're in the document in the CMG. I'm probably misquoting it by at least 1%. I think it's good to have the 02:03:42
discussion. No, I know, I just didn't want you to write down the wrong numbers. 02:03:49
Thanks. 02:03:56
So. 02:03:59
When are you going to have this knocked out for us and presented like? 02:04:02
Or is this already in here? There's a public hearing on May 14th, but we're not. I would like to have this. 02:04:07
Before then, so that the public could see what it actually is, we have we have our range published on our on our website and I can 02:04:13
just leave these with you at. 02:04:17
At the end but they're but they're up on online. 02:04:22
OK. 02:04:25
So what you're saying as it sounds right now with estimates? 02:04:27
The total cost of the project could be up to 31 million including Max portion. So that doesn't include anything. The total cost is 02:04:31
the total cost. 02:04:36
Well, no, I'm I'm saying like. 02:04:41
Not just vineyards part. 02:04:44
31 million is everything total cost of building, yes, potentially. And what they're saying is they're seeing the cost at 16.5 with 02:04:46
28 million, but they're putting in a range to 18.5 that could go to 31, correct for the bond, correct for the and for that bond if 02:04:53
we only bonded for 16.5 to 18.5. 02:05:01
And I'm sorry, it's just a little bit confusing what's right. A lot of numbers are on. 02:05:10
That the umm. 02:05:14
How much of mine? 02:05:18
Is that? 02:05:20
How much in that remaining bond is not going to pay? They're 1/3 of the costs. 02:05:22
Well, if they've already put 9 million down, I'm wondering. 02:05:27
So for the 16.5 it's like 11 something. 02:05:31
For the city, the total amount for them at the at the. 02:05:35
$28 million option is approximately $11 million. 02:05:40
On the $31 million option, it's a little bit higher than that. 02:05:47
OK. Well, I was just wondering, I know that it's I know that you said it's on the website and I've got a piece of paper here. I 02:05:55
was just kind of hoping that we could actually. 02:05:59
Show the public some of these numbers to help them understand. 02:06:03
Kind of as like a step by step. 02:06:07
What's happening with the project? 02:06:10
Just to be more commutative, but umm. 02:06:12
And agreed. And This is why we put it so we have a page dedicated to the Vineyard Center on the Vineyard utah.gov site. 02:06:16
And both charts that kind of. 02:06:25
Establish that range. 02:06:29
Are published on that on our page right now. 02:06:30
So it's available for anyone and everyone. 02:06:34
So what you could add that might be also Jake, I'll turn it over to you in just a second. Maybe this is what you're asking. 02:06:36
In February, we talked about how to process the work and we go through the architectural design and then the CMGC would happen. 02:06:45
And what you're asking is how are these numbers kind of being included as Cash was saying when he was talking about the spatial 02:06:50
design and how the process works? 02:06:56
Maybe we could put in the timeline of how those designs come in like again, charged like that kind of thing. 02:07:03
And then? 02:07:10
These you could say. I mean you already have them listed as the current actual and then the range. 02:07:11
As long as they're listed and then you could see that in the Gantt chart, we'll work on putting something like that together. 02:07:18
Jake so if the total cost to build. 02:07:26
Goes down to the 16 to 18 number. 02:07:31
I look at the total cost to citizens, which was the bond, which was 46 million. 02:07:35
If you're using the same amortization, this should be in the 37 to 38 total cost. 02:07:42
To citizens, I mean, your numbers are not going to be right. 02:07:49
And minor, but if you lower the same percentage, it would be in the 36 to 38 million. 02:07:53
Are you talking about including interest? Yeah, OK. Like total cost to citizen? 02:07:59
Are you talking about the bond parameters? 02:08:03
Yeah, like the total. 02:08:08
Like like the threshold, but there's a total cost to build and then there's the total cost to. 02:08:10
The citizens will pay over the amateurs. So the first number, are you talking about the 47? Are you talking about interest rates 02:08:15
on top of the threshold? 02:08:19
On top of the bond parameters. 02:08:25
Yeah. 02:08:27
Like how much interest? 02:08:29
He's talking about like a truth in lending, like a yeah, like on the disclosure, here's, here's a maximum principal amount of the 02:08:32
bond and then the interest on top of that. 02:08:36
And he's calculating that out to a theoretical maximum of $46 million. 02:08:41
No, not 46. It lowers to 37. Tallied it up. 02:08:45
Oh, OK. Go ahead, Eric, maybe you can clarify that. Would they give us that new estimate? 02:08:49
When you say new estimate, what does that mean? 02:08:53
For the same estimate on the total cost to build it would, I'm sorry, before you know what he's saying. OK, go ahead. 02:08:57
So. 02:09:05
OK, so. 02:09:11
The high end of our current range that we've. 02:09:13
Put on our website. 02:09:16
The total cost to taxpayers. 02:09:18
24658 OK, But that's not the answer to my question. What is the 47 million? I don't know what that means. OK. So my question for 02:09:23
you were you, so Brett, you were just explaining it a little bit. So it's on the bond parameters. We said we had a maximum. 02:09:33
6%. 02:09:43
And maximum of $35 million. So there's a theoretical in 25, I think we said 25 years. 02:09:44
Right. So there's a theoretical maximum of that $35 million plus all the interest over those years? 02:09:51
And that is the total amount that. 02:09:57
OK, so you're saying? 02:10:02
You're not even calculating the building costs that was discussed. You're talking about the parameters and then you're adding 02:10:04
interest on it potentially and then coming up with the 47 and then we're going back to the the high end of the range and you're 02:10:11
saying total cost would be total cost would be 24,000,000 and change. 02:10:18
For the city. 02:10:25
That obviously we don't, we don't include in that amount what MAG is paying because that's irrelevant to what taxpayers in our 02:10:26
city would be paying. 02:10:30
It seems like there's some confusion here. 02:10:35
About what? 02:10:38
The building cost is. 02:10:40
What a bond parameter is and the threshold and what our current actual estimates are. Maybe we can say there's current actual 02:10:42
estimates which is the 16.5. 02:10:48
And there's a range which is the 18.5. 02:10:53
And there is the bond parameter which is 35. 02:10:57
And what's really important to clarify is that. 02:11:01
We have to consider that the bond parameters was for the full. 02:11:06
Potential need for a bond. 02:11:10
Not separating out mags portion because mag is not a bonding entity. 02:11:12
And so the city would bond for whatever is needed to bond for. 02:11:19
And obviously, our taxpayers would not pay for the portion that belongs to MAG. OK. So if you wanted to understand how the city 02:11:22
design works, Marty, then you would probably and how they're doing costs and how the CMGC works. 02:11:29
Than the Gantt chart would need to start from that. 02:11:36
From identifying all of those things, yeah, we could, we could do kind of a separate. 02:11:40
We could do a city, the city portion and the mag portion kind of is 2 separate lines. Obviously from a timing perspective they're 02:11:45
going to be identical. 02:11:49
But from a cost division. 02:11:53
It'll help. Let's split that up so that it's clear what what the city. 02:11:56
Is paying for longer in the long term and what MAG is paying for in the long run OK? 02:12:00
OK. That makes sense. Now I understand what you're talking about and I think you got your question answered right, Marty, one of 02:12:06
them, OK. 02:12:10
Did you have another question? 02:12:15
I, I have, I have my legal questions. OK, I'm going to spread it around. 02:12:17
Brett and Sarah, did you have any questions or can I go back to Marty? 02:12:24
OK, go back. Go ahead. I'm I'm ready. 02:12:28
So I was splitting it up between the two of you. Were you just responding to Marty? Did I skip you? 02:12:31
In the other cities around us, they're paying cash and so the Local Government Bonding Act. 02:12:41
Title 11. Chapter 14 of Utah Code. 02:12:48
And notes that we have to disclose the total cost to citizens. 02:12:52
On the bond, so like it's like when you go buy a car, they're like, hey, here's the sticker, here's this, here's that. You get 02:12:56
free tires, you get all this. 02:13:00
At the end of the day, that we have to give a total cost to citizens. 02:13:05
And disclose that. 02:13:09
It's totally and and that and that notification was the one posted up here. So that's why I'm like. 02:13:11
It's important to know. 02:13:16
The cost to build? 02:13:18
But because our city is going to finance, we have to then disclose, but we're also financing. 02:13:20
And so yeah. Oh, no, I, I understand that. 02:13:26
What you're what I think needs to be clarified from what I understand in this meeting. 02:13:29
Is that and we I think we can help get there with Marty's question is that. 02:13:35
There is a bond parameter and then there is what you finance. 02:13:42
And what you finance? 02:13:46
Is the cost of the building because that's what you end up bonding for, and what you end up bonding for has to be divided between 02:13:48
your partners and what you pay cash up front. 02:13:53
And so you take the cast that you're going to pay up front the total cost. 02:13:58
And then you go to the actual bond and you talk about what you're financing. 02:14:02
And that is the 16.5 or the 18.5? 02:14:07
To the range that we're talking about. And so you give the total cost of the finance. Now what you're doing is you're taking it 02:14:11
all the way to a possible maximum credit that you could bond for if it costs that, but that's not what it's going to cost. So you 02:14:17
have to give the actual cost and brains. 02:14:22
Of how you're going to finance it. 02:14:28
Well, I think it's important to note that we want all the numbers. It's not that we're just focusing on one number or the other 02:14:30
and typically. 02:14:34
Went and I didn't agree with your statement. Not all cities pay cash for their city halls, but you said that you said all the 02:14:37
cities around us don't want. So that's very different than all I would. We have talked about all the different bonds that cities 02:14:46
do and I do feel that bonding is a smart idea. Now, whether or not the community feels that way, we're figuring that out. 02:14:54
But what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to discuss. 02:15:03
What we could do to get this the most practical project possible to the lower cost to make sure that this is fiscally responsible. 02:15:07
And so I want to talk about. Yeah, let's talk about what the. 02:15:13
The bonding act request make sure we know what the total cost is, but when I'm negotiating. 02:15:19
To plan for a bond. 02:15:25
That's what I'm focusing on. It's not like I'm trying to ignore those numbers. Go ahead, Eric. Just just one quick point. 02:15:28
I'm sorry, I'm going to lose this thought and I'll give it back to you. 02:15:35
Then there's no. 02:15:40
You made a point that I I don't want us to lose in that conversation. 02:15:42
All the numbers are important. 02:15:47
And all of the numbers are important. 02:15:49
But they represent very different things. Yes, we cannot lose sight of it, and that's what I was clarifying. 02:15:52
There is a bond threshold. This would be like you have a credit card. 02:15:58
And you have $4000. That's the Max. 02:16:03
Then it would be what are you going to pay on? 02:16:07
How much are you actually going to go for? It's not even like a credit card because it being you could get 4000. 02:16:10
But I'm only gonna go and I'm only going to get 300. It's like a, you know. 02:16:17
Pre approval for a home yes. So if I get pre approved for $1,000,000 house but I actually just want to go buy a $250,000 house. 02:16:22
It doesn't matter that there was an extra 750 available that you were allowed to go is what you find. 02:16:30
OK, now go ahead and clarify. Sorry, I don't want to lose that because those. 02:16:37
Being confused about that here, especially if we want to clarify it on the website, is something we cannot be confused about, so I 02:16:41
just wanted to point out that LRB. 02:16:45
Gathered for us. 02:16:50
For comparable standards. 02:16:52
From a comparable standpoint. 02:16:54
The cities around. 02:16:56
The state that have done sales tax revenue bonds. 02:16:58
And there are 29 that were listed on that. There were some that were. 02:17:02
That were state infrastructure type. 02:17:06
Sales tax bonds and so excluding those. 02:17:09
29 different city sales tax bonds have been issued in the last few years. 02:17:12
Ranging from small dollar amounts like a couple million. 02:17:17
All the way up to a $64 million bond. 02:17:21
And an $87,000,000 bond. 02:17:25
By Spanish Fork and Iron County and so. 02:17:28
It is a very. 02:17:31
Standard route for. 02:17:33
And they went through a similar process of displaying it with design and displaying it with the CMGC revenue bonds, all sales tax 02:17:35
revenue bonds. 02:17:41
I I. 02:17:47
Sorry, I know that a lot of these numbers have been shared and I think they're very helpful. 02:17:49
I'm I'm ready to go into the legal questions if everyone else is. 02:17:54
Yeah, let's please go into that because. 02:17:59
Yeah, go ahead. 02:18:02
So we know that. 02:18:03
I have so many questions. 02:18:07
Jamie, do you, you have some of my questions already, right? Like. 02:18:09
I'll pick one. 02:18:15
So we know that. 02:18:17
OK, let's go with this one. 02:18:20
We did a resolution for bond parameters for up to $35 million. 02:18:21
Now it's sounding like we might only bond for up to $18.5 million. 02:18:28
Did I get that right? 02:18:35
So. 02:18:37
The question. 02:18:38
And there's so many other questions with this question. 02:18:40
But with the referendum possibly knocking at our door, I know that packets are going out today. 02:18:43
I need to understand. 02:18:53
I feel like there's a lot of consequences to. 02:18:56
Amending a bond parameter and there's a lot of consequences to not amending a bond parameter. And then there's. 02:18:58
How is the question if the referendum signatures go through then what is that question on the ballot look like? Is it going to say 02:19:05
are you OK with the city bonding up to 35,000,000 when we're not bonding up to 35 million and we're bonding up to 18.5 and then 02:19:10
it's doing all at once and then. 02:19:16
If we just put the question on the ballot ourselves, what kind of rights do we have to do that? So rather than have the community 02:19:23
have to gather all the signatures, if we know it's something that the community has an appetite to vote for, then how, what would 02:19:28
the procedure be for us to put on that? And. 02:19:33
What would that cost? What would that look like? Is it even an option for us? 02:19:39
And. 02:19:43
Yeah, I think that's it. 02:19:47
That's it. 02:19:51
I'll try to start Broad and Arrow and then if you have follow up questions I'm happy to answer them. 02:19:54
Umm, if we go kind of a high level. 02:20:00
The the Legislature sets out the procedures by which cities bond. 02:20:04
And so the second you step into that process, you identify. 02:20:10
The type of bond and then that statute. 02:20:15
Lays out. 02:20:19
You know, from that point forward, what do you do? 02:20:20
For. 02:20:23
The types of bonds the city is contemplating, what your sales tax and franchise taxes are, what you're pledging. 02:20:24
As collateral for the bond. 02:20:31
The you're required to do a parameters resolution. 02:20:33
Eric gave a great analogy for that, which is it's like going to the bank and getting pre approved for a mortgage. 02:20:37
And it doesn't mean that you. 02:20:44
Take a mortgage on those terms, but it gives you the maximum. 02:20:46
That you've authorized both the maximum dollar amount. 02:20:50
And the maximum. 02:20:54
Interest rate. 02:20:56
On the bonds, I know they use different terms and interest rate, but it's essentially that. 02:20:58
So then when you look at the resolution. 02:21:04
The, the OR, I'm sorry, the referenda. 02:21:07
Petition Citizens. 02:21:11
Of the city. 02:21:14
Have contemporaneous. 02:21:16
Legislative authority with the City Council. 02:21:18
They don't have the same process as this, the City Council. 02:21:21
And so that's where it gets a little bit tricky, because the legislation for bonds assumes that. 02:21:25
City council's have this authority. They. 02:21:32
Use this authority. 02:21:34
I don't want to say routinely, but at least regularly. 02:21:36
For public infrastructure projects and and where that process is available to you. 02:21:40
There is not a process available to the council to say. 02:21:46
We just want to put the bond. 02:21:49
Decision out to a vote. 02:21:52
Unless the council decides to do general obligation bonds. 02:21:54
Which are really different. 02:21:59
Because general obligation would pledge. 02:22:01
The all of the resources the city would have, and if the city were to default on a general obligation bond, then the bondholders 02:22:04
could come in. 02:22:09
And forced the city to do things. 02:22:14
And I don't think that's a good. I don't. 02:22:17
That's not what our financial advisors are telling us is a smart decision for the project like this. 02:22:20
You're better off pledging certain revenue sources and not the general obligations of the city. 02:22:26
Because then you'd be getting into property tax and things like that and we don't want to touch property tax. 02:22:32
So. 02:22:38
Yes, please. 02:22:39
So with a Geo bond, if if we had decided, if we decided to do a Geo bond. 02:22:40
Would that require like? 02:22:46
Would that require a property tax increase or could we go with our already established budget and just work off of what our income 02:22:49
is? 02:22:54
Like Geo bonds don't require property tax increase unless you can't. 02:22:59
Can I hang up for a second please? 02:23:07
I I'm finding this really frustrating that you're texting or doing whatever you're doing. I'm actually getting feedback. So he 02:23:11
asked. Because this is a really critical conversation for you to hear. I know I've got to research it, but. 02:23:17
Now is the time to listen to the conversation, I don't think. 02:23:24
A person of a different party gets to say what I get to think about when I get to think about it. 02:23:29
He said something that I didn't know. However, it is in our code of conduct that you are. I wasn't disrupting. I am paying 02:23:33
attention, that's why I'm asking the question. 02:23:37
I'm asking specifically right now what the RDA is. 02:23:42
About the bond, because it's that we put the point, the point of our code of conduct is that you are paying attention to this 02:23:46
meeting. 02:23:49
Right, that's exactly. 02:23:53
That is not paying attention. That is totally OK Come up here and read every single thing that I'm texting about right now. 02:23:56
Like literally every single thing of what we're doing that that is not the point. Well, I guess hold on. So I'm going to point of 02:24:03
order. 02:24:08
I'm going to point of order. 02:24:13
There's two things. 02:24:15
I think if you were researching something that's different, if you're texting, you guys are writing your notes down. Like look at 02:24:16
how are you point of order point, point of order. I, I want to, I want to just clarify something. 02:24:23
To gather feedback on something that we're discussing through text messages. 02:24:31
Is something that could be clarified that we're not supposed to be doing on the thing that we're working. 02:24:36
Hold on, please. Hold on, please. Hold on, please. I think that, listen, I need to be able to conduct the meeting. I recognize 02:24:44
that you want to make a statement. I have to finish this so that we understand the two things that need to be clarified so that 02:24:51
you can move and do the things that you feel are appropriate and Brett can have his comment answered. 02:24:58
There are two things that happen here. 02:25:06
One that is addressing is that texting during a meeting to gather feedback from things that we're voting on is not supposed to be 02:25:08
occurring. Gathering feedback or gathering information is allowed. Is that correct? 02:25:15
Yeah, so a recommendation. I I think Council Member Clausen's noted the point of order. It can be included in the record of the 02:25:21
meeting and it's something if there's a concern about it, we could verify it after the fact. 02:25:28
OK. 02:25:35
I do think the topic of Councilmember Sequent is questions and any other council member that has questions about this are 02:25:36
important. 02:25:40
For us to get through. So I, Councilmember Clausen, if you're OK with it all. 02:25:45
Yeah, I mean, no disrespect is just. 02:25:50
You said something and I was researching it. 02:25:52
I mean. 02:25:55
I'll just proceed and answer. Yeah, thank you. 02:25:56
So there. 02:26:00
When you. 02:26:02
I'm going to continue with the analogy of a home mortgage because I think it. 02:26:05
It makes sense here. 02:26:09
When you. 02:26:11
Acquire a mortgage. When you borrow to purchase a home, the bank requires collateral. 02:26:13
The collateral it takes is a lien on your home. 02:26:18
And if you default on the loan, then they can call the lien and they can evict you from your home and then sell the home to pay 02:26:21
off whatever's remaining on. 02:26:26
That amount? 02:26:31
Bonds are the same. 02:26:32
You the city pledges a collateral in order to receive that. 02:26:34
The money up front and then it pays for it overtime. 02:26:39
What you use to pay for it and what collateral was pledged can be two different things. 02:26:42
So on a franchise and sales tax. 02:26:48
Bond like the one Vineyard is considering. 02:26:51
The revenue source the city intends to use and the one that has been used to. 02:26:55
Use the word prequalify. 02:27:01
For the bond issuance? 02:27:04
Are those revenue sources? And then if the city were to default on that bond? 02:27:07
The only thing the bondholders could come back. 02:27:12
And require the city to give them. 02:27:15
Are the sales tax revenues and the franchise tax revenues. So in the future, in the future general obligation bonds are different 02:27:19
because the cities pledging all of its resources. 02:27:25
As an obligation against the bond, in other words, the collateral that the bondholders demanding. 02:27:32
Would be any revenue source the city has. 02:27:39
And if the city revenue sources are insufficient, then they can force the city to increase its revenue sources. 02:27:43
Cities don't sell products they. 02:27:50
Have fees, they have taxes. And So what it could mean is. 02:27:53
That the bondholder comes in and says you have to raise your taxes. 02:27:57
I think I actually I want to rephrase one of my questions because. 02:28:03
It's not necessarily I appreciate you explaining the Geo bonds in the cell, tax revenue and franchise bonds, but. 02:28:07
What what I'm trying to ask is. 02:28:14
Even so, even if we just wanted to form a question. 02:28:17
Not, not necessarily. 02:28:22
Doesn't have to do with the bond specific it's saying. 02:28:25
Do you support? 02:28:28
In theory, the city going to bond. 02:28:30
Or do you support building Vineyard Center? 02:28:34
For this amount of. 02:28:37
Like it's not about the bond, it's about. 02:28:39
The facility is about the commitment to cost. 02:28:42
Like, do you get what I'm trying to do? You want to just put a general question on the ballot? 02:28:46
An opinion question, Yeah. 02:28:51
You could probably get there. I don't know how you do it and. 02:28:55
Keep to a project timeline. 02:28:59
Well, I mean. 02:29:02
I haven't done a lot of research on procedurally how that would occur, So what I just heard. 02:29:05
In this discussion is the sales tax revenue bond has an administrative side to it where we're not allowed to put it on the ballot? 02:29:11
But once we vote, then the. 02:29:19
Act of doing a resolution is what we've deemed or what is deemable as legislative. 02:29:22
And that can be referred. 02:29:31
A Geo bond. 02:29:32
Raises property taxes. 02:29:34
And so that's legislative and you would put it on the ballot because you. 02:29:36
Because it raises property taxes and it's a burden on the people so immediately. 02:29:41
It is legislative, so you have administrative. 02:29:46
Legislative and then the second question or the third question? 02:29:50
That you asked is. 02:29:55
If a Geo bond. 02:29:57
Not raising anything, you're just accessing current taxes. 02:30:01
You, I missed that part during the interaction. I think where Marty's going with this is she's asking. No, I know, I know, but. 02:30:05
This one I want to clarify. 02:30:15
The Geo Bond question because I missed it. 02:30:18
If you have a Geo bond that you're going after, that doesn't cause property taxes. Did you say that one was administrative or 02:30:21
legislative? 02:30:25
Well, there's there's not the same determination on a Geo bond because the state statute requires it to go to a vote. OK. So it is 02:30:29
automatically correct. So I don't know. 02:30:35
A referendum on a Geo bond would be moot. 02:30:41
Because. 02:30:46
To the ballot regardless, right where one is administrative to start and can be referred which OK. 02:30:48
And your point is, well, could we have an opinion question and you're going to look into it? Yeah, and I'll look into it. I think 02:30:54
the answer is perhaps yes, that there is a way to ask a general question of the electorate. 02:31:00
I think I don't know what that would mean for. 02:31:07
Everything else happening with the project, well then you'd have to analyze my response to you Marty is we would probably as we 02:31:09
research that. 02:31:13
Would want to look at the cost of delaying with. 02:31:17
Space-time and everything that we've already well my. 02:31:23
My question, well, this kind of leads to the referendum question, one of the questions I didn't ask. 02:31:27
It is, I know that it has been a question and a source of concern and legalities with. 02:31:34
What we are allowed to do? 02:31:41
Once, because we have the referendum application, you have acknowledged that legally that they have a right to do a referendum. I 02:31:43
say that right. 02:31:47
And then? 02:31:51
And so now they have their packets. 02:31:53
And they're going to start going around gathering signatures. 02:31:56
So are we? At what point are we breaking the law by even touching this project? 02:31:59
Yeah, great question and. 02:32:06
A little bit of a tricky 1. 02:32:08
Legally. 02:32:10
Because there are several different things happening at once, so. 02:32:12
There's a memo that I circulated to the council and to staff. I have no problem with that memo being disclosed publicly it. 02:32:17
Is a restatement of what's in. 02:32:27
The law, but framed through the lens of. 02:32:29
The referendum application that's been made on this. 02:32:33
The general rule is that. 02:32:37
Public resources, meaning city. Revenue sources City Money city. 02:32:40
Funded resources can't be used. 02:32:45
To advocate on something that is the subject of a referendum. 02:32:48
And now that an applications been made and a determination's been made about. 02:32:54
It being eligible to be placed on the ballot we are now. 02:32:59
Scenario. Umm. 02:33:02
So no city resources can be used to try to persuade people one way or the other. Vote yes or no. 02:33:04
On this. 02:33:11
There are are two other and that relates to the. The item being referred is the bond parameters resolution. 02:33:13
There are some tricky things with state law because it requires a sequence that when you have a referenda, aligns in a really 02:33:22
weird way. 02:33:26
Because a parameter's resolution sets a month after that a public hearing. 02:33:31
And there can be confusion by people saying, well, if the city announces that it's holding a public hearing or publishes 02:33:37
information, that allows people to be informed. 02:33:41
Before that public hearing, isn't that advocacy? 02:33:47
And I think that's where the city needs to be careful about how those things are phrased. 02:33:50
But it can provide factual information that will inform people going into that hearing. 02:33:55
And they can continue to provide factual information about the project, the project budget, the project planning. 02:34:01
And you have kind of two parallel actions that are not referable decisions. 02:34:09
That our ongoing processes where it's appropriate for the city to hold meetings, engage with the public, answer questions, provide 02:34:14
information. 02:34:18
And it's the planning for the project. 02:34:22
And that's like what you heard from the same in cash today of. 02:34:25
How the sites configure, what the cost estimates are, What the work is with the public? 02:34:30
On the planning process with the architects, With the engineers. 02:34:35
And then there's a similar process on planning out the funding for the project. And I think that can still be communicated and 02:34:40
worked on. 02:34:44
I'm drinking this interim period. 02:34:48
There's nothing that would prohibit that. 02:34:50
And then? 02:34:53
Elected officials have. 02:34:55
A lot more latitude in what they can and can't do to advocate. 02:34:58
On behalf of the ballot referendum, so long as you don't use public resources to do it. 02:35:02
So you. 02:35:09
You're on websites, you're on social media, handles your own e-mail accounts. 02:35:11
Can advocate for behalf of the referenda however you wish. 02:35:17
You can't use your city e-mail address, city social media. 02:35:21
City computers to do that kind of thing. So just be mindful of what resource you're using. 02:35:26
Can we use it to ask you staff or county of the process are we supposed to be? 02:35:33
Know any kind of process question you could use that resource to ask about and then. 02:35:40
City staff also are able to respond to direct questions about. 02:35:45
The referendum or the referenda process. So if you know if a member of the public were to call and say. 02:35:50
You know I don't understand this thing or or can you point me to a resource on this or help me understand this? 02:35:56
They can answer factual questions they're not prohibited from doing. 02:36:02
Customer service type. 02:36:07
Activities. 02:36:09
What they can't say to somebody is I think you should vote. 02:36:10
You know, this way. 02:36:14
For or against on the issue? 02:36:16
As a City Council member. 02:36:21
If there's already resources that have been provided. 02:36:24
I can use them for my own like if they've. 02:36:28
If they already have. 02:36:32
And reviews and documents then I can use that but I can't ask. 02:36:34
It's kind of confusing. 02:36:39
Because I guess, I guess the second part of this question is. 02:36:41
Does it halt the project because there's a referendum like we have hired? 02:36:45
We've hired the CMDC. 02:36:52
No, we haven't hired the same industry. So we design. 02:36:54
But the designs of the designing process, there's a public hearing. So we don't call and tell them stop designing it because 02:37:01
there's a reference. I can, I can answer that. I understand what you're asking. Let me answer the first question and then I'll get 02:37:06
to the. 02:37:11
What legally I would call us stay. 02:37:16
A stay, STAY. 02:37:19
Your follow-up question was can you use city or staff prepared resources to inform your advocacy? 02:37:23
Yes, of course. 02:37:30
What you can't do is ask staff to create. 02:37:31
Advocacy resources for you to use. 02:37:35
So if for example, you wanted to create a social media post that reviewed the plans, the documents, the status of the project. 02:37:38
And then you wanted to argue to people that look for all these reasons. 02:37:47
You should vote a certain way on the project. 02:37:51
Well, a lot of those figures and the data that you're pulling from is created by staff. 02:37:54
But Staffs not creating them for advocacy, they're creating them for the project. 02:37:59
To understand what the dimensions are of the project. 02:38:04
How it will be funded and what the estimates are and it's and they. 02:38:08
Created and maintained, I think a useful website that does that. 02:38:12
It's not an advocacy website, it's just a website that. 02:38:16
Has been as close to real time as we can. 02:38:20
Information. Factually correct information about the project. 02:38:25
You're also required as part of the referenda statute. 02:38:31
You being the city. 02:38:34
Is required to publish. 02:38:36
A document that was published over the weekend. 02:38:38
According to the statutory deadline, that's the fiscal and legal impact statement. 02:38:42
And that has to be. 02:38:47
Factually neutral, but it also has to contemplate all of the potential. 02:38:49
Legal and fiscal impacts. 02:38:54
Christy and I are the 2. 02:38:57
Persons identified in the statute as responsible for that, it's your budget officer and. 02:38:59
Your city attorney. 02:39:05
And we created the document in consultation with the Financial Advisors and Bond Council. 02:39:07
Because they have a little different skill set than we do. 02:39:13
Informed what went into that document. 02:39:16
That's a document you can rely on for. 02:39:18
Factually neutral information. That's not an advocacy document, but it'll layout. 02:39:22
The potential legal and fiscal consequences. 02:39:27
And then? 02:39:30
Your next question. 02:39:32
Was about when and at what point work on the project would stop. 02:39:36
And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because referenda are about. 02:39:41
Referring. 02:39:45
Decisions that the City Council made to voters. 02:39:47
And the only types of decisions that are eligible to be referred are legislative decisions. 02:39:51
There are Supreme Court cases saying that bonding decisions. 02:39:57
Tend to be legislative. 02:40:02
There are not Supreme Court cases that are recent on the topic. They're back in 1936 and 1939. 02:40:04
There's the 2012 case that discusses them and basically says. 02:40:11
If they came up again, we think the outcome would be the same. 02:40:15
Neither of the bonds in those two cases are the same type of bonds that the city are putting forward. 02:40:19
But the Council's direction on this was to avoid a position on it that would invite litigation and so. 02:40:26
My determination was this is. 02:40:33
A referral. 02:40:36
Legislative decision most likely, and that the Council wasn't going to resist. 02:40:37
Having it referred and allowing the voters to. 02:40:42
If enough signatures are gathered. 02:40:45
To allow people to vote on it. 02:40:48
The referendum statute has a specific time at which. 02:40:51
Work on the bond would be stayed. 02:40:55
And state is the legal term of art. That just means you stop doing things on it until you have the vote. 02:40:59
And that would be at the point in time when. 02:41:06
Signatures are gathered. Signatures meet the statutory threshold. 02:41:09
Which is 11.5% of registered voters in the city at large. 02:41:14
And 11.5% of the voters in each of the voter districts. 02:41:18
Within the city. 02:41:22
And once signatures are submitted that hit that level. 02:41:24
Then the city would not be able to proceed. 02:41:28
With the parameters resolution. 02:41:32
I don't think there's much risk of. 02:41:35
A decision to move forward with a bond issuance occurring before. 02:41:38
That deadline, just looking at the sequence of the hearing and then when. 02:41:42
You would take up that decision. 02:41:47
But that would not stay. 02:41:49
Work on architecture and engineering. 02:41:51
Work on cost estimates. 02:41:55
Work. Work on issuing a contract. 02:41:57
You'd of course have to reconfigure your whole financing on the project. 02:42:00
But theoretically, a project could move forward even if. 02:42:04
Upon parameters, resolution is rejected. 02:42:07
I say that theoretically, carefully, right? Because that's not what the Council's directed or what you're doing, but. 02:42:11
That's kind of the legal hypothetical thing. So as it stands. 02:42:18
You're saying from a legal standpoint? 02:42:22
Until the signatures get turned. 02:42:26
Financial conversations with the with LRB about bond. 02:42:28
Time can be spent on all those things. 02:42:33
And then you're saying once the signatures if the signatures if they collect enough signatures and turn it in. 02:42:36
Then that's when bond conversations with LRV would need to stop until the vote went through. 02:42:41
Well, the city could still ask questions of its financial advisors with or without correct the the parameters resolution and the 02:42:48
effect of the parameters resolution would stay. 02:42:54
How's that date? But then as you're, so you're saying that construction and design work? 02:43:02
And we obviously couldn't construct things if we knew that the bond was up in question, right? 02:43:08
Right, you'd have to completely redo your project. 02:43:15
Financing, right? Like I'm just I'm, I'm simply offering that. 02:43:18
The only thing being referred as the bond parameters resolution, not any other aspect of a project. 02:43:23
And that's not me. I'm not making a. 02:43:29
Judgment, they're saying, you know that's. 02:43:32
Good or correct or right, it just that is the action that's been referred. 02:43:35
And there are other actions the Council will take I don't think or could take. 02:43:41
Related to the project, I don't believe any of those decisions would be. 02:43:46
Legislative or referral? 02:43:51
Contracts aren't legislative. 02:43:54
Planning isn't legislative. 02:43:57
Unless you get into land use decisions or things like that. So I guess as a council can I jump in? 02:44:00
Because I didn't get to do the building. Did you want to finish your thought? 02:44:07
I'll let you go. It might be no, you're fine. It might be towards I kind of was leading to your e-mail. 02:44:10
Because I guess as a council so. 02:44:18
I guess the concern has been said. 02:44:21
If we have a referendum. 02:44:24
And, umm. 02:44:27
And let's say they gather enough signatures. 02:44:29
I believe it kind of feels like. 02:44:32
Either direction, it's like this gamble of. 02:44:35
You know, if they get enough signatures and we're just continuing working business as usual, are we spending money potentially on 02:44:39
something that's just not going to happen? 02:44:43
And it's not. 02:44:49
That's going to be put on hold and we're still investing into it and it could fail and we're still investing in it. We're still 02:44:51
investing in it. 02:44:54
I guess what I'm wanting to know from staff at some point is. 02:44:58
What costs are we? 02:45:02
Potentially incurring through this whole process. 02:45:05
And at what point do we want to have? 02:45:08
A city stay? 02:45:10
Where we're not spending funds that we don't know for sure we're actually going to get results out of. 02:45:12
Does that make am I not making sense? 02:45:17
You are making sense. 02:45:19
So there's nothing legally that you have to stop building, but practically. 02:45:21
Yeah, I understand the question. I let me. 02:45:25
I guess help you understand just the time frames on the referendum. 02:45:29
If packets go out this week. 02:45:33
The longest amount of time. 02:45:36
The referenda sponsors would have to gather signatures would be 45 days. 02:45:38
The way the statute's written. 02:45:44
They have up to 45 days from the time they receive packets. 02:45:46
But on. 02:45:51
The first day on which they began gathering signatures. 02:45:52
Then they only have 30 days from that date. 02:45:56
So to put it a different way, there's there's a potential 45 day. 02:45:59
Envelope, so to speak, within which signatures could be gathered. 02:46:05
But there's they can only use thirty of those 45 days, but they can kind of pick where they. 02:46:09
Want them to be so the city will know whether the. 02:46:15
Referendum. 02:46:19
Signature gathering effort is successful or not. 02:46:21
At the latest. 02:46:25
45 days from the day they get the packets. 02:46:26
So you're looking at the most a six week period of knowing. 02:46:29
You know, is it or is it not going to qualify for the budget or for the ballot? 02:46:35
And then I guess the question for Eric and staff is within those 45 days, what are you spending resources on? 02:46:40
For my part. 02:46:48
I've had. 02:46:50
I do work for more cities than just in here, and I've also litigated on this and. 02:46:53
And had cases go all the way to the Supreme Court. 02:46:58
And the. 02:47:01
More often than not, these signature gathering efforts fail. 02:47:03
I don't think you want to assume an outcome one way or the other. 02:47:08
And I certainly don't say that, you know, wishing for one thing or the other on. 02:47:11
On the effort, it's my job to remain neutral. 02:47:17
To make sure the process is done legally. 02:47:21
But more often than not, they do fail. And so I I would caution you just it's a good question to ask, but I don't know that. 02:47:25
Stopping work on something on the expectation that a signature gathering effort will succeed. 02:47:35
Is supported by. 02:47:41
The data. So you haven't answered my last question. I asked a lot of questions. 02:47:43
Can I can I answer the question? 02:47:51
Was come over directed my way. 02:47:54
I would just point out that. 02:47:56
Having the plans for the Vineyard Center in hand completed. 02:47:57
Have a durable value to us and so whether we built that? 02:48:03
This year or in the future? 02:48:06
They will be of value as you look at that. 02:48:09
Legal and fiscal evaluation. 02:48:12
It lays out. 02:48:15
The inherent costs of a pause. 02:48:16
But those inherent costs are not. 02:48:20
Don't do it because you don't want that in hand. We know that the need is there. We know that. 02:48:23
Growing and that we're going to need space for. 02:48:27
Housing staff to deliver the services vitally needed for the city. 02:48:30
And so completing that. 02:48:34
That those plans. 02:48:36
Is of great value to us. 02:48:38
And then you didn't answer my question on what kind of question will be put on the ballot? 02:48:42
If the reference like, how do we? 02:48:48
Decide. Or how do they decide? Or who decides what that question looks like? 02:48:50
Pam does. 02:48:55
But but Pam doesn't have. 02:48:58
Unfettered discretion on what the language looks like the item being referred as the parameters resolution. 02:49:01
And she will have to craft ballot language. 02:49:07
That accurately describes the parameters, resolution and what it does. 02:49:11
And then there's the there's. 02:49:16
Time in that process for. 02:49:19
Those for and against to pick it that way. 02:49:22
I would disagree. 02:49:28
It has value. It only has value if you're ever going to build it and if I listen to the sponsors of the referendum. 02:49:29
That's not the type of building that they would build. So having plans. 02:49:35
For a building they wouldn't build if it failed the ballot box, there would be, but there's a risk. 02:49:39
The thing that I'm looking up at tattoo that I wanted to clear up. 02:49:45
Was umm. 02:49:48
Just kind of clearing. 02:49:49
The different and I would never advocate for a general obligation bond or property tax bond for this at all. 02:49:52
However. 02:49:58
It's really important to understand that. 02:50:00
Because it's not of general obligation bond. 02:50:02
The full faith and credit of the city is not backing. 02:50:06
So because of that, it's off of the. 02:50:09
Sales tax. 02:50:14
Umm, up and down of the economy, right? 02:50:19
So therefore it's riskier and that's why the interest rate is so high. 02:50:22
Especially when we're putting it on. 02:50:26
100% on credit, right? 02:50:28
And I think you made a good point. 02:50:30
In calling it a credit line because it's very similar like a credit line. 02:50:33
And the problem that we. 02:50:39
Find ourselves in right now. 02:50:41
Is that we? 02:50:43
Move forward. 02:50:44
Without a credit line. 02:50:46
And we put $1,000,000 to $3,000,000 into. 02:50:48
Plans without getting pre approved on a credit line. 02:50:52
And that's and I would just advocate. 02:50:56
You know that's what I was saying in February is like let's go get pre approved for an amount that citizens would not. 02:50:59
Bakat on a referendum like a like a total dollar. 02:51:06
Get pre approval and then do the plans but we did a reverse. 02:51:10
And what do you mean? What do you mean when you say go get pre-approval? 02:51:14
Well, a bond. 02:51:20
And going and passing bond and then giving that seven day trigger period lets you know that. 02:51:22
Citizens don't have a problem with it, but because we've no, I mean, how would we go get pre approval? Who are you talking about? 02:51:28
We would get pre approval from the pre approval is going and passing a bond. 02:51:34
Legislative decision. 02:51:40
And then so we we learned today. 02:51:42
By doing the sales tax revenue bond that that is an administrative decision and we couldn't put it on the ballot. 02:51:45
I'm not talking, yeah, you're getting lost there. I'm, I'm talking about our sales tax bond. I'm saying we should have done a 02:51:53
sales tax. 02:51:56
Bond first. 02:52:00
Instead of the $1,000,000 in building the building because if we would have. 02:52:02
Put it out there. Hey, we're doing 35 million. 02:52:08
And do that legislative decision before, but it's not a legislative decision. Hold on. 02:52:11
Just a. 02:52:17
Point of clarity between Jake and I, number one, that's not a legislative decision to put out the bond. 02:52:18
That we couldn't have put it on the ballot number. Hold on. No, the legislative decision. The legislative decision. 02:52:23
Is to be able to refer the resolution. 02:52:32
The ability for us to put the sales tax revenue bond by ourselves on the ballot. 02:52:34
Is administrative, we're on the same page, OK, but there are two different things that I want to clarify it because some people 02:52:40
think we could have done it, but it's administrative until that point. Yeah, I'm definitely not resolutions or legal law, 02:52:45
definitely not saying that it would have been asked the citizens on November what I'm saying, OK. But second, I think I understand 02:52:50
you. 02:52:54
Is that? 02:52:59
Always in city process we plan first. 02:53:01
And then we go out and get the money. And this is what we did with the fire station. No, it is. 02:53:05
No, we do actually. We always do the signs and we do plans. 02:53:11
This is by the CMGC. Process is so important and what we're doing and what Marty asked to be on the website is to say. 02:53:16
What costs do we actually need? 02:53:24
But Jake. 02:53:28
Sales packs, revenue funds don't usually go in that order. They go in this order. 02:53:29
That we're doing right now. I worked for construction and I get architectural drawings and then I submit a bid. 02:53:34
You know this process. 02:53:42
You submit a bid and then they go, oh, this is how much it's going to cost. 02:53:43
And then that's when these companies are like, oh, we need this many million. So I don't understand why you're saying we did it 02:53:48
backwards because I feel like that is typical process in the corporate world, construction cities, it's standard and it brings 02:53:53
down your cost. We did it for the fire station. We put out the process. 02:53:59
People were worried about the cost and it ended up saving us 10s of millions of dollars. And then we came up with this great plan 02:54:05
because we put in the. 02:54:09
Long range plan first. 02:54:14
OK. But but in the construction world that is totally correct, right? Like so private people can go through and do that? 02:54:17
This is this and it's according to. 02:54:23
Well, we're following the codes that all of the cities follow. 02:54:28
When Marty says typical standard operating procedures. 02:54:33
Of these construction costs and the way that sales tax revenue bonds are put in by communities OK, I mean it doesn't matter I 02:54:37
guess we're arguing that the past but. 02:54:42
I think, well, we're not arguing about the past. We're arguing about the process. Yeah. And this is a good and healthy process 02:54:48
that. 02:54:52
We're supposed to be utilizing and I think it's important to. 02:54:57
To clarify that, just like how we are supporting the right of the citizens to have a referendum. 02:55:01
Like it's not. 02:55:08
Like there's processes through all of this. 02:55:09
And specifically, our timelines have given them the opportunity to do a referendum. And if it gets, if they have their 02:55:12
accomplishment now, it can actually go on this year's ballot. 02:55:18
So, umm. 02:55:23
Yeah, that's another point that I think is really important. 02:55:24
Thus that he couldn't. 02:55:28
Put it on the ballot because it's administrative. 02:55:30
But wanted the people, in case they wanted something different, to have the opportunity to put it on the ballot. 02:55:33
We. 02:55:41
It offers both sides. 02:55:43
But while we go through it. 02:55:45
The long range planning will save us in the future and Cash stated it nicely. 02:55:47
It was X amounts. 02:55:53
Of space or person dictates the floor whether or not you wanted a different shape or design the information that we will acquire 02:55:56
from this. 02:56:01
Is important in all long range planning for the future. 02:56:07
And I believe that if people understood how the designs and all of the processes and the engineering was going into it to say. 02:56:10
This is what our staff needs. This is what's happening. That information can always go to the future. We use this in all of our 02:56:18
processes. 02:56:23
We use this in all of our long range planning and we've done it forever. That's what makes things several ready and then when we 02:56:28
get to that point, that's where we enter construction. So we're not starting on a building. 02:56:34
We're in the middle of design and that might mean we won't get to construction for a while. 02:56:40
And maybe this changes, you know, throughout the year, maybe as we're going through the numbers, we change that because as a 02:56:44
council outside of everything that you're talking about with referendums. 02:56:49
As a council, we haven't even decided. 02:56:55
If we're going to move forward. 02:56:58
And so we're in design phase. 02:57:00
There's there's steps in the process that have to keep going. 02:57:03
My last comment and I think it's really important just to listen to cash and the adjustments. 02:57:07
Is. 02:57:14
You know, in in just a month we went from there will be a library to now there isn't a library. 02:57:15
Or it's significantly reduced? 02:57:22
But it was never stated that there would be. And every discussion that we had, it was what we're exploring is this where we put 02:57:25
this, is this we have three different options for these facilities. 02:57:31
And that is what they're coming back and saying and in February. 02:57:37
You guys asked, can you bring these updates back? Can we see these things and that is what's occurring. We're bringing it back and 02:57:42
saying, OK. 02:57:47
We went and met with everybody. We went and asked the questions. We're exploring it and it makes most sense outside of this 02:57:52
building is what you're commenting on was their feedback. Can I interject? Yeah. So as far as the library. 02:57:58
We wanted the library board to make. 02:58:06
The decision of how they wanted to grow. 02:58:09
And so in our meeting last night, the opportunity was there for them to go into the Vineyard City. 02:58:12
Center, but they all wanted to stay here. 02:58:18
And utilize that top floor. 02:58:22
With the idea I don't know if any of you have. 02:58:24
Toward the other. 02:58:27
Libraries around like Springdale, or. 02:58:29
Spanish sport, they're pretty amazing. 02:58:32
And so there. 02:58:34
Their goal was to utilize this with the idea that they could. 02:58:35
Potentially build something. 02:58:40
Really great in the next 5 to 10 years. 02:58:42
So this was the decision of. 02:58:45
The library to stay here. 02:58:48
Was with the library board. 02:58:50
I knew that I watched that, but what I'm saying is, is that. 02:58:53
Even like to night of what we're saying and the flexibility and the type of construction, it's so flexible. 02:58:57
That it will change between here and August because it's still. 02:59:04
Conceptual. 02:59:08
And I think. 02:59:10
No, I don't think that's what they were saying. They're saying they're going to refine the details. What we're doing is we're 02:59:11
closing in on things and that the CMGC. 02:59:15
Will help that engineering find alignment with the design and go through a few more steps to make sure those numbers are coming 02:59:19
into play and that. 02:59:24
There isn't designs that's not going to work according to construction needs and construction costs. 02:59:28
So that we don't see. 02:59:34
Things go over. 02:59:36
And what Eric was saying is that as we do that process those we're going to get a very close number. 02:59:38
A tight, what do you call it, a tight? 02:59:47
But a tight number according to comparables that also take into consideration your other comment, which is we don't know about 02:59:50
interest in all of these things, but there was an escalation that was built inside of it, right, Okay. 02:59:56
So to your point. 03:00:04
What are you most concerned about? So, so we can I understand, I know legally we don't have to put a stay, but I would I would 03:00:06
just. 03:00:11
And I know I said this in February, I would go to the citizens first. 03:00:16
And find out the size and scope and put a stay on it. 03:00:20
I know just learning and just reaching out. I think there's a thought. 03:00:26
To $6 million, maybe $3,000,000 solution. 03:00:30
Trailers. 03:00:36
Portable things, Buying a house, allowing us to save. 03:00:38
Solutions that could. 03:00:42
Quickly get us going to. 03:00:45
Give us the ability to give us. 03:00:48
Bridge to three to five years. 03:00:50
But I also think in meeting with the. 03:00:52
The referendum sponsors. 03:00:55
Listening to what their concerns are, you know, coming together to try to find a solution would be smart. 03:00:57
But I don't think I know legally we don't have to put a stay. 03:01:03
And they could continue to build the. 03:01:07
$30 million twenty 2 hour portion building but umm. 03:01:10
I don't think that is wise. 03:01:15
I have a question. 03:01:17
Eric, Eric was going first, but is it too? I would like to. 03:01:19
When you say it's more affordable, like, do you? Do you sincerely not see like? 03:01:24
Because I hear this argument a lot and I don't feel like you kind of subscribe to it. 03:01:30
Is. 03:01:36
I think bonding is smart. 03:01:37
I think that with inflation and construction costs and if you if we would have built something five years ago or even with our 03:01:39
water tank is a good example. 03:01:43
If we would have been able to build it three years earlier, we would have saved. 03:01:47
I don't remember how many million someone threw out the number, but several million. 03:01:51
Do so my my concern is I'm like looking at the practicality of all of this and I'm just saying from my opinion. I'm not talking 03:01:55
about the communities opinion because I know that. 03:02:00
Is very important that I'm trying to understand. 03:02:04
But what I'm trying to understand first is what I think is logical. 03:02:07
And what I think is logical is. 03:02:11
I worry that if we wait and save up, we're just basically saving up for an increase of cost. OK, so time. 03:02:14
Time out for a second. Did you have something to add to this before we have a discussion? Just wanted to clarify that that we did 03:02:22
do an evaluation of saving. 03:02:26
As opposed to building today. 03:02:31
And the conservative estimate that we find in the fiscal analysis? 03:02:33
Is 3.65 million over the next five years if we just waited five years? 03:02:37
The more realistic. 03:02:43
You mean of what it would cost us additionally additionally just on just standard inflation in construction costs? 03:02:45
The more realistic estimate is 6% per year. 03:02:53
Which would bring us up to approximately $2,000,000. 03:02:58
Per year. 03:03:02
In added cost for the. 03:03:03
Every year that we waited. 03:03:05
And so somewhere between. 03:03:07
3.65 and 10 million. 03:03:09
That we would lose simply by waiting five years to start. So clarify that is for the project that we're looking at right now for 03:03:12
the 16 to 18 point $1,000,000, correct. So if if we did change our mind to do something smaller, we would still have an increase, 03:03:18
but it wouldn't be that same increase. 03:03:24
Correct, but I guess the point being that. 03:03:31
That waiting on something that we know we need today, we're out of space. 03:03:34
We're toppling on top of each other, we're needing to rent new space and so forth. 03:03:39
That is, the need is not going away and so. 03:03:44
Acting today is is prudent because of this, this cost savings that that would produce. 03:03:49
Saturday you mentioned trailers and things like this. I'm guessing what you're talking about is something separate than what 03:03:55
we'll. 03:03:59
Then yeah, or on Saratoga Springs had quite a few that have utilized. 03:04:03
Portable trailers or homes. So sorry that that wasn't my question, but thank you for clarifying. I think one of the reasons why we 03:04:08
started this discussion and what we'll be talking about. 03:04:14
At the public hearing with the designs. 03:04:20
And some of the numbers that we saw tonight that Cash was talking about with the space we needed. 03:04:23
Incorporates. 03:04:29
The trailers that we are working out of and the off. 03:04:31
The other, but the other buildings that we have throughout the city and the space that we're utilizing right now and then it will 03:04:35
probably outline the facility plans that we have and we'll be able to look at all of that. 03:04:41
What I heard inside of your comment though was that you were looking for a safe period. 03:04:48
And Marty asked questions on it. You were talking about numbers that you put out into. 03:04:52
August, but there was a comment that there's a 30 day collection period that might be able to give us time to have a discussion 03:04:58
with within six weeks. 03:05:03
I'm sorry, what? 03:05:09
There's more than enough. 03:05:11
There's a little more time than what you're thinking because. 03:05:19
Once they turn in the packets, they. 03:05:22
County has to verify the. 03:05:25
The signatures and the voters. 03:05:28
And then my office has to. 03:05:30
Certify that. 03:05:32
OK. So I think something that we can take away from this conversation is this. 03:05:34
We are going to, we are already in process of designing something and I think it would be beneficial to go and talk to staff and 03:05:39
sit down with them and go through that facilities plan and look through these things to understand it better and where we're at. 03:05:46
Then we'll have the best opportunity to present kind of what. 03:05:52
You guys are coming up with as you're talking to the architect. 03:05:59
And the CMGC that you're bringing forward to show? 03:06:02
How that is helping design this project process for long range and why we do it? 03:06:07
And then outside of that, you guys can. 03:06:14
Go back and forth and make that determination on when or where you want to take the next step in voting. 03:06:17
And then that's outside of something else that will maybe take you to a ballot or maybe not take you to a ballot, which is 03:06:24
entirely separate from this conversation. 03:06:29
Sorry, I apologize. Could I ask one more clarifying question? 03:06:35
Councilmember Holloway mentioned that that. 03:06:39
Going the sales tax bond route. 03:06:42
Came at a much higher interest rate. 03:06:45
As an expense, I wanted clarification on that because. 03:06:47
What we're gonna go bond and what we're pursuing. 03:06:51
Is a non taxable. 03:06:54
Sales tax bond for the entire structure of the building, which is a. 03:06:56
Which is a mole. 03:07:00
Quite a substantial discount from what it would be in any other format like a. 03:07:01
Like a private. 03:07:06
Loan would dictate. 03:07:08
Right, but it would be higher than a go. 03:07:10
And it is point. 03:07:14
Zero, 5% higher than a Geo bond. 03:07:16
Right. But it is, but that's substantial on a 39, not substantial. 03:07:20
I mean, I would like to understand your definition. I mean, on government record. I mean, yeah. 03:07:25
I just wanted to make sure it was clear. 03:07:30
Oh .05%. I mean, yeah, you can't say that it's comparable to a private. 03:07:32
Mortgage because mortgage governments get government loan I mean they currently get that but as you review the the. 03:07:38
The legal and fiscal impact. 03:07:44
The ability for government entities to get. 03:07:47
Tax exempt loans. 03:07:51
Has been discussed and has the potential to disappear here in the next. 03:07:54
Short while it's been, it's been discussed more and more frequently. 03:07:58
And so it may not be a thing of the future. 03:08:02
Eric, I understand what you're saying. Here's my question. I'm gonna point of order for a second. I know, I know he did, and I'm 03:08:05
trying to keep us legally safe. Thanks. Just hold on one second. 03:08:11
I need to Jamie. I need clarity on this so Eric's answered answering these questions. 03:08:17
Council was talking about but. 03:08:25
I feel like we're moving away from. 03:08:27
I mean, do you still feel like we're around with discussion that's acceptable and OK? 03:08:31
Yeah, I don't. I think it's up to you. 03:08:36
Where you what you want the. 03:08:39
This work session to go on discussion what I want. I want to make sure we're not crossing. 03:08:41
No, I think you all as members of the Council. 03:08:50
Can freely debate these kinds of things. There are some of the questions that are now starting to be asked where I would say at 03:08:54
least for my part. 03:08:59
There's a reason you have bond counsel and it's because I'm a city attorney and by definition a generalist and not a specialist 03:09:05
on. 03:09:09
Bonds and so there are some of the questions about. 03:09:13
Geo bonds Visa VDS that. 03:09:17
You know, I've I've explained my understanding of it and if you want to go deeper than that. 03:09:20
Probably recommend you ask. 03:09:24
Bond Council and then they can provide that answer and they also could provide. 03:09:26
Some of the information about what's happening politically, nationally. 03:09:32
That, you know, might. 03:09:37
Cause a risk if you delay. 03:09:39
This type of bonding decision for a year. 03:09:42
Tax policy changes. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that we run right round the question. 03:09:45
Yeah, if we're getting a private mortgage and we're going to take out a $32 million loan roughly we're going to be paying 90 03:09:51
million and I'll and obviously because we're taking out a, a bond. 03:09:57
Roughly, you know it's 32 and our interest rate is 46, so it's 14,000,000. I think that's all. 03:10:03
Or sorry, 12 million, I think 14,000,000 is a lot in interest. 03:10:10
And also the last point to your point of. 03:10:15
It increases by 6% for building. 03:10:17
Our our sales tax increases just about that as well. Our revenue does. So their building costs go up, our sales tax ratio goes up. 03:10:20
About the thing. 03:10:30
So it doesn't get worse. It's not like our sales tax stays the same and building costs go up and it makes it harder. 03:10:31
They both kind of like as the notion. 03:10:37
Balance out for the most part so. 03:10:40
I'm still spending more even if we're bringing. Did you have something to respond to misunderstanding you? But that was a really 03:10:42
weird way to look at it. 03:10:46
I would I would just point out that it's. 03:10:50
On an $18 million bond. 03:10:53
A OH .05% distinction from A. 03:10:56
From a Geo to a sales tax bond is $9000. 03:10:59
Every year. 03:11:03
In total. 03:11:04
In total? In total. 03:11:05
So we'll still be paying 8 million though, right? 03:11:11
8 or 9 million in total interest. 03:11:13
On the lung. 03:11:16
How are we going to go from? 03:11:18
12 million in interest to. 03:11:20
Total interest. 03:11:24
I think that's because the bond parameters were at 35,000,000. So you were looking at a theoretical maximum, right? And now we're 03:11:26
talking, we're talking. 03:11:30
No, I heard that we're going down to somewhere between 60 1/2 to 18 1/2. 03:11:34
So we've cut that less than half. 03:11:39
So. 03:11:41
OK. So now we're at 6 million in interest. 03:11:43
And of that 6,000,000, we're talking about $9000 being the difference, OK? 03:11:46
I got 6 million in interest though. But Jake, not all of us buy our houses of cash. Most city like a lot. Do you mean overtime? 03:11:52
I get what you're saying. Like I understand that we need to have all the numbers. I just think it's kind of. 03:12:02
Like it's an opportunist. 03:12:09
Opportunistic way to argue your point. 03:12:11
Like when, when cities, when you go through that list of sales tax revenue bonds and he's listing all the amounts of. 03:12:14
That these different cities and organizations went to bond for. He's saying what they actually went to bond for, not what they 03:12:21
ended up paying in the end. And so I think you're just trying and. 03:12:25
You have your right to sell it the way you want to sell it, but I think that you're creating so much. 03:12:30
You're like trying to. 03:12:37
A standard type thing, the fact that like you should be celebrating, you've been frustrated that it's up to 35 million and now 03:12:39
we're talking about up to 18.5 and it's like. 03:12:44
That's really cool that we like we took and we acknowledged that maybe we shouldn't do the library there and the library board 03:12:49
that's how they agree we took it where we're not doing the lease out space and that's something that you have been really 03:12:55
frustrated with and a lot of your supporters and then we've made it more practical so that we're not. 03:13:01
They were being more practical with our space. 03:13:06
It just to me is just really. 03:13:09
It's a bummer that you don't celebrate any part of that. You're just like, Oh well, now I just how can I make it sound higher? How 03:13:12
can I make it sound higher? And I was doing the interest before on the 32 and I'm doing the interest. 03:13:18
And that's you're right, and I'm glad that you're a lot of people with the numbers, but it's just not all of us can afford to put 03:13:26
cash down on a house. And so I think the way you look at things is a little different than the way I look at things. 03:13:30
Look at things as and. I don't know if it's logical with the numbers not to be rude. I think it's a assumption. It's like a black 03:13:36
and white of. 03:13:40
What might be when we pay it back, how we pay it back, we might pay more, we don't actually know. This is a conservative estimate 03:13:44
where we're doing 1% for all sales tax increase, which over the last. 03:13:51
X amount of years to spend an average of 39% sales tax increase and we're already down to 1%. That's how we're measuring it. Is 03:13:57
that the most conservative? 03:14:03
And so when when I want to be really clear that just throwing out those numbers and not actually knowing. 03:14:09
What we'll be able to do but saying that we can do this. 03:14:16
Is pretty remarkable. There's a. There's a big difference in what you're saying and what is. 03:14:20
Going to happen and and in government finance to to have a bond that has a. 03:14:25
Certain payment amount every year makes it much easier for a city to be able to. 03:14:32
To navigate and. 03:14:38
Control the expenditures. 03:14:41
Instead of just like saving well this year we can save 500,000, next year we can save 250. 03:14:43
This gives them. 03:14:50
A way to put it in the budget so it makes sense and so it it balances the budget every year. Not only that, but you were talking 03:14:51
about compromising a bunch of our opportunities in the future, what we'll be able to do with our essential services and police. 03:14:57
And you were saying we're not going to have any money in the future. But this is one of the reasons why you go through these 03:15:04
financing processes and pay things over time so that you can manage your budget. 03:15:10
Wisely and according to who's coming, how things are growing. 03:15:17
Are we, if you really were going to compare apples to apples with somebody like Orem and say, OK, we've been in cranberry? 03:15:21
Basement, shared office space, working out of multiple facilities, having our stuff in trailers, All of these things and saying 03:15:30
how many times did other communities expand their buildings, take out different ponds, build multiple facilities. None of this is 03:15:36
being accounting accounted for in any of these discussions. 03:15:43
And now we're talking about a city next to us that is so big. 03:15:50
And at a very different. 03:15:55
Set of part of their journey were early on. 03:15:57
We're at this place where we cannot survive. Inside of this, we need to do something different. We've been extremely creative. 03:16:01
And now we're saying, look at. 03:16:10
The way that we're able to do this, not burdening our tax, not burdening our citizens not. 03:16:12
Umm, making it so they won't have their sensible services, rather protecting their essential services. 03:16:19
And we're doing it in a really thoughtful way. 03:16:25
And it's been something we've been planning for a long time. 03:16:28
And you're not accounting for that in these discussions. 03:16:31
I, I would, I would definitely say this has been a happy meeting in terms of seeing it come down and I can totally be corrected on 03:16:35
that and, and I'm grateful. 03:16:40
A point of clarity there, that point. 03:16:46
Just a point of clarity on that. 03:16:49
For the whole Council. 03:16:51
Take the ring, not about a coming down. I think this is important to know. 03:16:53
$35 million is the bond parameter. 03:16:58
Everybody has to understand this. 03:17:03
This is about honing in on the actual costs. 03:17:06
And so. 03:17:10
We have to clarify those two points inside this discussion. 03:17:11
And it is nice that we're talking about more realistic numbers right now. 03:17:14
And it is a. 03:17:20
But I don't want us to get lost. 03:17:22
In that because it has been a point of confusion. 03:17:25
I don't think it's been confusing. I think people understand that. 03:17:29
You know, hey, this is a total credit line possibilities we're going to ask for this much and it could be a little bit less. 03:17:32
That's the confusion that that that isn't the accuracy. What you just said is not accurate. 03:17:39
It wasn't like, oh, we could, we could do this. 03:17:44
And now we're gonna go down. It's up. 03:17:48
We said we had a bond parameter and we wanted to go get you and everybody the number. 03:17:50
Of what it actually would cost, just that we would be OK if the city ever thought to take out 35, not that it was actually going 03:17:56
to be 35. 03:18:00
You know I was. 03:18:04
I understand when you guys say we can make a payment. I've heard that a lot at dealerships. I I get it. 03:18:07
But what? But I was having a conversation with Mayor Young. 03:18:14
This week. 03:18:17
And he calls me and he goes. 03:18:18
You guys have four times your property tax rate. 03:18:20
He wanted to learn about MAG and all of that. 03:18:23
And he goes, how are you guys? 03:18:26
Even conceivably thinking about that. 03:18:28
And that's where I'm coming from, is I'm coming from A. 03:18:31
I'm hearing that people are just. 03:18:37
Our water, our sewer and our property taxes are so high. 03:18:40
That they are and. 03:18:44
This, and I hate to say this, but we are the poor kid on the block. We do not have. 03:18:46
The tax base, all of these surrounding cities. 03:18:51
And so nor do we spend what they are spent, right. We have 12 million, they have 152 million, right. But but that's what I'm 03:18:54
saying is the size and scope of this is still so large. 03:19:00
That I am hearing from. 03:19:06
I've done lots of roundtables on this. 03:19:09
3 to 5 million and it and that solves our staffing problem. 03:19:12
Like it's like 8 to 10 years. Yeah, no, we did that. But we're. So here's the thing, we can't. 03:19:16
We can't 100% predict growth and I feel like well and before that I don't even think that 3.5 million is. 03:19:24
I don't think it's practical. I don't think. But listen. 03:19:32
You're saying 3.5 million? 03:19:36
Which would basically build like. 03:19:39
A big house. 03:19:41
And what we have now, you're not going to get like office space for what we actually need. And then you might maybe we just go 03:19:43
super frugal, super practical like. 03:19:48
Awesome. Let's. 03:19:53
You know, put. 03:19:54
You know little band aids here on a brand new project. 03:19:55
Like I just don't see that as feasible and it's interrupted to our services. But what I'm trying to say Jake is. 03:19:59
We look, a lot of our problems in Vineyard have to do with how fast we grew and we tried to plan for something like our water tank 03:20:07
or our public works building or even this facility. We plan for things and then we're like, oh crap, five years later, it's not 03:20:11
big enough. 03:20:16
Or even it's completed and Oh my gosh, we're not going to have to build another one of these. Or when this was completed, we had 03:20:21
to immediately expand it. 03:20:25
Yeah. So what I'm trying to say, Jake, is. 03:20:29
I it's not, you're not planning ahead for the future. I just, it's just, I had a great story from Councilmember Christian the 03:20:31
other day where he walked in. He doesn't like it when you bring up his name. 03:20:37
He doesn't have to. I just heard the story. I don't. He can like it or not like it, Trump or Obama or whoever. 03:20:42
Told the story about a newlywed couple coming in and saying I got to come in and buy a $4000 home and they're like but no I'm 03:20:48
going to have 4 kids and he goes. 03:20:52
Great. When you guys get one or two, get out of your starter home. This right here is 16.5 versus 35. I feel like we're meeting 03:20:56
the middle. 03:21:01
The metal stuff that you're talking, his story was instead of needing a big custom home. 03:21:06
Let's get into something in between and I have been working really hard with staff. 03:21:14
Everyone has been working really hard with staff to take it from Custom 35,000,000 with. 03:21:19
Retail space or not retail with leased out office space and our library and all these things. 03:21:25
And then now it's 16.5 to 18.5 and I'm like we found are in between and you can't like thank you for acknowledging that that is 03:21:31
good. But it's like. 03:21:37
It's never good enough and that's why I feel like it's kind of hard to work with you sometimes. I'm not, I'm not the referendum 03:21:42
sponsors. I'm just I'm, I'm, I'm helping you. 03:21:47
Understand their logic, Jake. That was a really funny statement. I know you're not the referendum sponsor. 03:21:52
I know you're not the referendum. 03:21:58
Say hey if you're a young couple and and you don't, you don't buy a house for when you got your 4 kids. 03:22:02
We're already a couple with 10 kids and we've got a trailer out front and we've got kids living in there and we got a tent in the 03:22:11
backyard and we can't parent them because they're in another house. 03:22:19
No one is, no one is arguing about not getting and sizing up to another big home and it's doable to get to the size. And I, I 03:22:27
just, I'm just trying to help you guys. I know they're not here. I think it would be a great conversational discussion to bring 03:22:31
them in during the public comment period in a month. 03:22:36
Don't have that opportunity and I look forward to the public hearing. I want community buying on this. I don't think I know better 03:22:42
than our community. What I'm trying to say is I want to share facts. I want to share reasonable information, all. 03:22:48
The information and then I want everyone to look at it and go. 03:22:55
You know what? I still think this. 03:22:59
This project's not great and I can't get behind it. Or, you know, actually this is more reasonable. I think it makes sense. 03:23:01
Quit calling it something that's not and I actually will support it. But what I what I find really difficult and why we have such 03:23:08
a hard time in our city getting along is because everybody, everybody, I'm not saying just one side or the other, but I just feel 03:23:15
like we're always going, we're over here and we're over here. And I'm just trying to say, let's come together and talk logic. And 03:23:22
if we're all in the same reality and we're all in the same headspace and we still disagree. 03:23:28
Then let's go from there. 03:23:36
But I just feel like you're you've kind of got this agenda where we have this really cool. 03:23:38
Success of getting this down so much lower and you're like let's tear this down tear it down tear it down tear it down and it's 03:23:43
like can we just. 03:23:47
For a minute, come to the table and think about. 03:23:51
Some kind of collaboration, and I just don't feel like we get that from you. 03:23:55
How many of you guys talked about shrinking it down with any of the? 03:23:59
Referendum sponsors. 03:24:04
That I've talked to several residents, the referendum sponsors are not my only right or any residents #2 I've talked to several. 03:24:05
But shrinking it shrink, shrinking it down with hold on one second I I wanna talk about this. 03:24:12
Has a longer conversation. 03:24:19
This isn't a reactive thing that's happening. I'm sure that people are here are having conversations in their own time with those 03:24:23
people because everybody here has been very collaborative. 03:24:29
This is a multi year project. 03:24:35
Where we have been looking at houses, trailers, multiple facilities, we've been renting out other spaces, we're sharing our 03:24:38
conference rooms. 03:24:43
There, this has been going on. 03:24:48
Can all of the things that you're bringing to the table, that's where we've been, that's where we've been starting. That's how 03:24:50
we've been growing. 03:24:54
That's why we're all over the place, that's why there's so many people in different rooms, that's why there's a guy sitting in the 03:24:58
printer alcove. 03:25:01
That is what we're doing. 03:25:05
And so it's not that we don't want to be fiscally conservative. 03:25:07
It's not that we're not taking the time to think what do these people want? 03:25:10
Everybody up here lives here and doesn't want. 03:25:15
To spend our money frivolously. 03:25:18
And so you can be rest assured that people are talking I. 03:25:21
When I take the time to go and look on Facebook, on multiple pages, you're all having conversations. Nobody up here. 03:25:25
Is not having conversations with people. 03:25:32
And coming up with an idea and sharing their plans and having people send them their drawings. 03:25:35
We've been looking at engineering costs any way that we can make it. 03:25:40
More affordable to our people. We do it. And one of the ways that we did this. 03:25:45
Is umm. 03:25:51
You can see it with the fire station, you'll be able to see it with this building and the longevity that we come up with in the 03:25:52
end will be good. And we hope that when we start with all the facts on the same page that we make the right decision and that it 03:25:56
is not. 03:26:00
And that we come to the table. 03:26:05
Do you guys really want to keep going? 03:26:07
OK, I. 03:26:10
I'm done, OK. 03:26:11
Senator Budget. 03:26:14
So any could we? 03:26:17
Is there any appetite for anyone to put a stay for the 45 days? 03:26:19
And I'm going to bring it back to you. 03:26:54
Go ahead, Christy. 03:26:58
Sorry, I feel like I'm getting a little whiplashed up. Have you changed gears so quick that I'm trying to? 03:27:06
Get this pulled up. 03:27:10
You look like a problem. 03:27:12
Can you hear me now? 03:27:14
OK, sorry. I think everyone is pretty aware of the budget process. We started in February with the council retreat where we came 03:27:15
up with our strategic goals. 03:27:20
Spends that time each department is met with the finance department and requested everything that they needed for their 03:27:25
departments. 03:27:29
And then we came together as a budget committee. This year is the first year we have actually had a budget committee. 03:27:33
And it is the mayor and councilmember. 03:27:39
Klassen, Eric, myself. 03:27:42
Naseem, who is our public works director, and Morgan, who is our community development director. 03:27:45
So the budget that I have presented to the Council tonight is what we have come up with so far. 03:27:50
We need, what we need to have is additional review from council members. 03:27:57
So the reason we are presenting this two weeks before I was initially going to give the tentative budget is so that the Council 03:28:02
can look at what we've put together so far. 03:28:06
We will be scheduling meetings one-on-one with each of the council members. 03:28:11
Where we can do a deep dive answer any questions that they have. 03:28:15
And look at suggestions for projects that we need to include or exclude. 03:28:19
So that is what's brought us to this point. 03:28:24
I'm sorry, that was really quick and dirty. 03:28:27
On the slide I have just pulled up a couple of projects. 03:28:30
So that the citizens are aware of what we are talking about in the budget. 03:28:34
So there's a couple slides here that show the capital projects fund and what our plans are for this year. 03:28:38
I did want to mention that some of our projects are tied to grant funds. 03:28:45
And we will not hear about the grants for sure until the end of May. So some of those are types of grant funds and maybe cut just 03:28:49
if we don't get the grant. 03:28:53
I think we have three different projects. 03:28:57
Better in that situation. 03:29:01
OK, perfect. 03:29:03
What I'm hearing, Christy is. 03:29:05
Here's a capital projects list. 03:29:07
For our residents to just look at really quick. 03:29:11
And uh. 03:29:13
Pay attention to can you go back to that other slide? 03:29:14
Pay attention. 03:29:18
Council you have. 03:29:23
Documents that you can review and start scheduling your meetings with Christy and Eric. 03:29:26
So that you are prepared. 03:29:33
To accept the tentative budget, by law we have to accept it on May 14th. 03:29:35
You need to have all of your questions for accepting it. Now we're not adopting it. 03:29:40
Or accepting it right And then you will have. 03:29:46
Multiple weeks, almost 8 weeks. 03:29:49
6 to 8 weeks to go through and ask all of your questions, make changes, we'll bring it back to the public. 03:29:52
But you need to be prepared. 03:30:00
Each council person has to take that on. 03:30:02