Meeting: Redevelopment Agency Board

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Transcript

	All right.	00:00:04
	We're going to go ahead and start our redevelopment Board agency meeting. The time is.	00:00:07
	Is it? Is it working?	00:00:13
	Yep, the time is 604. We'll start with an invocation and then we'll here we'll do our Pledge of Allegiance.	00:00:14
	Our father we're so grateful for this opportunity to meet together we're so grateful for the opportunity to work together as a	00:00:22
	community and to.	00:00:26
	Invest our time in building a beautiful place that we can all call home, and we pray that we'll be able to work together and.	00:00:30
	Humility and strategy for the better of our community. And we said this name of Jesus Christ Amen. All rise.	00:00:39
	For which it stands one nation under God.	00:00:53
	Individual with literacy and justice for all.	00:00:59
	All right, it looks like we have an RDA update and then we which we'll hear from.	00:01:10
	RDA Director.	00:01:17
	Josh Daniels.	00:01:18
	Great. Thank you.	00:01:20
	I have a couple of items.	00:01:21
	And then I'm going to share kind of a memo form.	00:01:24
	That address.	00:01:28
	A couple of different questions that have come up.	00:01:31
	In the past for discussion, so three different.	00:01:33
	Three different topics. The first one there's been some discussion previously about.	00:01:37
	The relatively recent action of the RDA Board in the fall of 2023 to pass a resolution to extend the life.	00:01:42
	Of the timeline for the commencement of increment collection.	00:01:51
	And so the first memo in your packet and online.	00:01:55
	Covers this topic SO.	00:02:00
	Some of the discussion in the past centered around the process for the vineyard.	00:02:03
	Redevelopment Agency board to.	00:02:09
	Extend the time frame for any given phase.	00:02:11
	Of the Geneva Urban Renewal Area Project.	00:02:15
	To be placed in the tax increment financing period. So a couple of things that are important here.	00:02:19
	Number one, the original project plan called for.	00:02:26
	Any given phase of the project to collect tax increment for 25 years total for any given phase.	00:02:30
	But there was kind of an assumption that the entire project would only take.	00:02:39
	Essentially a total of 35 years.	00:02:44
	Because the idea was that all the phases of the project would.	00:02:47
	Be triggered for tax increment collection.	00:02:51
	By the 1st 10 year period.	00:02:55
	Obviously for those that have been involved for a number of years and if you look at the history, it's taken a lot longer to	00:02:58
	prepare the site for commercial and residential development.	00:03:03
	And so.	00:03:08
	It seemed necessary to allow sections of the project to be triggered in the future for only a 25 year period, but that those	00:03:10
	probably wouldn't be triggered in just the first ten years.	00:03:16
	Of the project but later.	00:03:22
	And so, in 2020, the legislature passed a bill, Senate Bill 158.	00:03:24
	Which gave a specific.	00:03:29
	Option for the Vineyard RDA board.	00:03:32
	To pass a resolution to extend the time.	00:03:34
	For tax increment collection in any of the phases.	00:03:38
	Umm, beyond that 35 year total time frame. So.	00:03:43
	In 2023.	00:03:47
	The resolution.	00:03:49
	Basically said that.	00:03:51
	That the Vineyard RDA would extend the time frame.	00:03:54
	Beyond the original sort of total time limit, so that.	00:03:59
	Different phases of the project that were still under development or would be developed in the future could be triggered for the	00:04:04
	25 year maximum, but that they didn't have to be triggered right away to to have the 25 year maximum.	00:04:10
	And so you know, the question was well.	00:04:17
	How? What's the process for doing that? Because the process in code up until that point was to essentially reconvene the taxing	00:04:21
	entity Committee, which was the original body that authorized the participation and tax increment financing.	00:04:28
	And approved the original project area budget.	00:04:34
	So what the statute with the with the bill in 2020 allowed?	00:04:37
	Was in the in the event of a.	00:04:41
	Of a project area like Geneva.	00:04:45
	Where there was an inactive industrial site.	00:04:48
	And the Vineyard RDA board.	00:04:51
	The Community Reinvestment Agency, which is what you are, could go ahead and do that unilaterally without reconvening the taxing	00:04:54
	Entity Committee.	00:04:59
	And it was really important because in.	00:05:04
	The legislative history, the discussion both in the Senate committee, the House committee on the Senate floor, and in the Senate	00:05:06
	and in the House floor.	00:05:10
	Centered around sort of the need to.	00:05:14
	Give this extension because.	00:05:16
	Of the time it took for environmental remediation, there was some discussion specifically about the time that it took and and kind	00:05:19
	of the idea that the Camus had to be created. I don't think that was originally.	00:05:25
	Something that the.	00:05:31
	That the vineyard RDA understood clear back in 2011, but as environmental remediation took place.	00:05:32
	As the EPA was involved in terms of.	00:05:39
	Directing certain requirements and as the cleanup continued.	00:05:41
	It was clear that it was going to take a number of years more for the environmental remediation. I think you can just see that	00:05:45
	with your eyeballs as you drive through the city and you can see there's still a whole lot of concrete and other material that's.	00:05:51
	Being hauled out every day.	00:05:57
	And you know the site is obviously not.	00:05:59
	Prepared for commercial residential development immediately. Some sections closer than other sections.	00:06:01
	And so, with that in mind, the Legislature authorized the Vineyard RDA board, with a very specific exception.	00:06:08
	For an inactive industrial site.	00:06:14
	Of 1000 acres or more which?	00:06:16
	The Geneva Urban renewal area is the only such site in the state.	00:06:18
	And it was so explicit that.	00:06:22
	On the House floor when the bill passed.	00:06:23
	One member of the legislature who is a former City Council member, not from here, but.	00:06:26
	You know, all the same as familiar with city issues specifically ask the question so.	00:06:31
	You know, to the bill sponsor, they said. So what you're saying is that.	00:06:36
	The Vineyard RDA.	00:06:40
	Extend the time for tax increment collection for this site without any approvals or authorizations or resolutions of the taxing	00:06:42
	entity committee and the sponsor said yes.	00:06:48
	So it was very explicit that the legislature wanted to give specifically.	00:06:53
	The Vineyard RDA for the purpose of the Geneva urban renewal area.	00:06:58
	Additional time to capture the 25 year tax increment on any given phase of the project and that there would be no.	00:07:03
	Sort of time limitation.	00:07:13
	And so that that's why in 2023.	00:07:15
	The Vineyard RDA passed the two resolutions.	00:07:18
	To extend the time.	00:07:22
	For collection.	00:07:24
	Or really for beginning or commencing the collection of tax increment financing.	00:07:26
	Umm, on, on those parcels. So that's kind of what this memo goes through it.	00:07:32
	It cites the code and talks about the legislative history.	00:07:37
	And the discussion that took place in the legislature.	00:07:41
	And then the Vineyard Artier Board followed that protocol. They held the public hearing in October 11th and October 25th of 2023.	00:07:44
	And then passed resolutions.	00:07:53
	Related to that extension.	00:07:55
	And that is what this first memo.	00:07:57
	Goes through Hey Josh, did we hire a lobbyist to run this bill?	00:08:01
	No, the bill.	00:08:05
	Was uh.	00:08:07
	Run by state representative, so we had no lobbyists.	00:08:09
	Hired at that time.	00:08:13
	I wasn't here at that time. I don't know, but I know we did.	00:08:15
	Well, when I when I listen to the legislative history, it was the lobbyists for developers that were on the record saying that	00:08:19
	that they were.	00:08:23
	Pushing for this.	00:08:27
	We're gonna, we're gonna keep letting.	00:08:30
	I'm ready for questions. Yeah. OK. Did you have a question? Yeah.	00:08:33
	I fundamentally disagree with the.	00:08:39
	The timeline of events as to how this happened.	00:08:41
	Every RDA in the state functions the same. We're attacking entity committee, the revenues of which.	00:08:47
	Come from like our school district, our county.	00:08:54
	Our city, our sewer and our water.	00:08:58
	Will always set forth the parameters.	00:09:00
	The length? The total dollar amount.	00:09:04
	So last year when we came and asked you how this was extended, we were following.	00:09:07
	The protocol that is set forth in state law, that has been the standard going back years.	00:09:12
	The way this was extended.	00:09:18
	Was by running a bill.	00:09:21
	To change and make our RDA unique to any other RDA in the state.	00:09:23
	And over and over ruling and instead of justice, simply going back to those taxing entities because it's their money, it's the	00:09:29
	school district's money.	00:09:34
	It's the county's money.	00:09:39
	It's a very simple process to go and say this is your money, can we take an extension on that time?	00:09:41
	Instead of doing that process.	00:09:48
	We went to the legislature and ran a bill to say we don't want to notify them. Can we run a bill and extend it without?	00:09:51
	Having to do that process. Hey, Jake, can I call point order? What's like this is very important because this is their money.	00:09:58
	Let me finish my thought.	00:10:06
	I guess I hear a lot of concerns and frustrations about things that have already happened.	00:10:09
	Well, it's very important that the public record be described as to what happened.	00:10:15
	I understand we're sharing the past. You might as well say what happened.	00:10:19
	What is the point of your frustration? Because besides the public record, you said that. What do you want us to do about it? Hold	00:10:23
	on, Hold on. Actually, both of you. Stop Dave for a second. Stop date.	00:10:29
	You're not clarifying the public record, and I think that's really important.	00:10:36
	What is actually happening is that Josh stayed at the public record. He also stated that this was done by the law. He also stated	00:10:40
	that this was done through state law.	00:10:45
	If you don't like the way that the law works in the state, you can go and talk to the state legislators and whether or not you	00:10:50
	believe that the city.	00:10:55
	Is the one that pursued it or not?	00:11:00
	Whether or not this assumption that you're putting out to the public is true or not.	00:11:02
	The point is that John's clarified for the public was this was done according to the law. I'm not, I'm not questioning and so	00:11:07
	there's nothing.	00:11:12
	Business.	00:11:16
	That is being discussed right now, I think. Marty's.	00:11:20
	I think Marty's point.	00:11:23
	Is that we're here to fulfill the business of the city.	00:11:25
	What you're talking about is a state law, and if you do not like the way that state laws work.	00:11:29
	This is not the place to petition them.	00:11:34
	This is not the place to petition them, and it's also.	00:11:38
	It is not. It is not actually. You need to go to the state.	00:11:43
	And here, here's the difference.	00:11:46
	What you're saying to the public?	00:11:48
	Is intentions, ideas, thoughts, ways that you would have wanted to pursue a past issue because you think that it's better now	00:11:50
	whether or not you think your way?	00:11:55
	Is better than the way that it was done.	00:12:01
	The way that it was done was lawful.	00:12:03
	And according to the way that it needed to be done with the state in a way that was meaningful.	00:12:06
	And so telling the public that we did not do it in a way that was proper.	00:12:12
	Is improper.	00:12:17
	So I'm going to move on from this discussion. We're not even I'm going to move on from this discussion because you're not	00:12:19
	providing clarity.	00:12:22
	What you're saying is not true.	00:12:33
	I know.	00:12:35
	You just didn't disclose how it was done. No, Jake, I didn't. You and I didn't even have this discussion.	00:12:39
	What you're saying is not true.	00:12:44
	So Jake, what you're saying is not true and now it's been disclosed and clarified, Jake, now it's been disclosed and clarified.	00:12:47
	By our.	00:12:58
	Director.	00:13:01
	Who, when you ask for clarity, he went and he he went and found out.	00:13:02
	The answers for you.	00:13:09
	We didn't follow the same protocol we take. That's not the point of it. What you're doing, you're not discussing the OK, I'm	00:13:11
	calling this back to the table. This I will state it again.	00:13:17
	Right now you are talking about two pathways, one both pathways. Whether you like that pathway.	00:13:24
	Or you like another pathway. This was the legal and lawful pathway.	00:13:31
	If you want to discuss that later, you can go and have that discussion outside of this because right now we have to focus on the	00:13:37
	business.	00:13:41
	We've we've tried to put this on the agenda and have experts come and explain how this was extended. You just had a business, you	00:13:45
	just had an expert come and explain it to you.	00:13:50
	And it's been clarified. The law has now been clarified. Is there anything? All right, we're going to go ahead and we're going to	00:13:55
	move on to our consent agenda.	00:13:58
	Unless there are any further questions about this particular item, I'd be happy to have Josh answer the question.	00:14:03
	There's also two other I was gonna.	00:14:11
	Oh, I apologize, Josh. Go ahead. And just to cap this off, yeah, there's two pathways in the law. The the state legislature	00:14:13
	created a specific option for vineyards specifically to do it through a RDA board act.	00:14:20
	Which is what happened in 2023.	00:14:26
	So, OK, great. We'll go ahead and move to the next memo.	00:14:28
	The developers that asked for the extension, is that the land owners? Yeah.	00:14:32
	And there are, it's if you go back and you listen to the, I've listened to them, we listen to them today and extend, The funny	00:14:37
	thing is, is the vast majority of the people didn't know what was being voted on at that time. And there's nothing wrong with	00:14:42
	that.	00:14:47
	This, This is why we're moving off this topic and we're going to go to the next thing. You can't say such generalized statements	00:14:51
	that you're including our whole legislative House of Representatives or Senate and saying, no, hold on, you need to wait, please.	00:14:59
	You make these blanket statements that I find insulting to our legislation if they didn't know what they were voting on.	00:15:07
	Then let them come and sing the law, right? That's what we're No, no, Jake, it's not just that.	00:15:15
	It's that what Marty is saying is that there was a huge group of people. But Sauce did clarify.	00:15:21
	Yeah, I understand.	00:15:28
	In the minutes.	00:15:32
	That they had asked the questions that you're saying they clarified it for the people on the floor.	00:15:34
	And it was made known to the people who voted on it, and then the people voted on it.	00:15:40
	Notwithstanding any of that, that has nothing to do with the business of Vineyard right now.	00:15:45
	I don't know what we're afraid of. They're just giving us. This isn't being afraid of anything. This is that you're not clarifying	00:15:51
	the law.	00:15:55
	On the bigger picture.	00:16:00
	Did you hear what he said?	00:16:02
	The whole purpose of this have you, have you driven past?	00:16:03
	I've I've listened to that Geneva site.	00:16:06
	It is a giant mess and if it needs more time to be able to make it nice, then we need to support that it needs more time to make	00:16:08
	it nice. I'm not done.	00:16:14
	So I grew up here, I'm well aware of Geneva and the benefit that it created for multiple families. It was the place where blue	00:16:19
	collar people could come to work and are now living for their family.	00:16:24
	Right when Geneva pulled up, they left a giant mess for Vineyard and for Orem and for all of Utah County.	00:16:30
	And what they're saying is exactly what needs to happen to clean up that mess that's been sitting there for 25 years. And for you	00:16:36
	to not support it is actually a little embarrassing because you're from Vineyard.	00:16:42
	OK, so OK, hold on. I'm gonna ask you a question so I can know if we can move on from here. I don't know what we're afraid of.	00:16:49
	Just talking about what happened. Guys, just let us go. Jake, listen. Listen, Jake, stop and listen to me.	00:16:55
	Listen.	00:17:02
	Is there something that you would like to accomplish with a business? I think it's just say wait and wait. Is there something that	00:17:05
	you would like to accomplish?	00:17:09
	With the business of Vineyard today regarding your discussion, yeah, it's important that we establish how this was extended. OK.	00:17:14
	All right, then I'm going to take.	00:17:20
	The legal process has been clarified. We've established it, what you have said.	00:17:28
	Is not clarifying it except that there were two pathways. You illuminated that. Thank you.	00:17:33
	Josh sat and acknowledged that there's two pathways.	00:17:39
	And we followed the legal pathway. So now that we've accomplished the business that you'd like to accomplish, we're going to move	00:17:43
	to the second memo. Why? Why not just allow for a discussion on this, the discussion that we have the business.	00:17:50
	Jake, listen to me right now. Listen to me.	00:17:58
	OK, wait. Jake, stop. Stop.	00:18:02
	Stop K.	00:18:06
	We have to get through this. We can't be afraid of what We can't be afraid of what you did. Just just talk about it.	00:18:08
	Jake, stop.	00:18:17
	You have to stop.	00:18:21
	You are disrupting the meeting. All right, Jake, you are disrupting the meeting.	00:18:23
	Nobody is scared about this.	00:18:27
	No, stop.	00:18:30
	Please stop.	00:18:33
	This is part of the reason why it is so difficult to get through the agenda.	00:18:35
	This is a funny thing.	00:18:40
	This isn't, this isn't the way that we deal with business items.	00:18:42
	This is a very serious thing. We have to get through the business of our city.	00:18:46
	It's very important.	00:18:51
	And what you're saying to the people acting like we're scared to talk about it, acting like we're hiding things, acting like	00:18:53
	you're clarifying the law.	00:18:56
	It's not true.	00:19:00
	What you're saying is not true.	00:19:02
	And so now we have to actually get through the business that is on our agenda.	00:19:05
	And so, Jake, you had just mentioned to me that you wanted to clarify the process. Stop, Jake. Scott. Scott.	00:19:12
	Josh has already clarified the business. There's no reason for us to extend the discussion.	00:19:22
	We have a lot on the agenda.	00:19:27
	We have a lot of public hearings.	00:19:29
	We need to get through that.	00:19:31
	OK, Julie, I think, sorry, I think, I think both of you should stop if it's okay.	00:19:33
	Keep going, Josh.	00:19:40
	He was like, we moved to Sacramento. Marty, it's my job to actually navigate how this works. Party feel like you're talking,	00:19:41
	you're saying kind of the same things over and over. And I feel like, OK, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna establish this for the council	00:19:46
	that you can understand this.	00:19:51
	The reason why I ask people to stop or give people turns, or sit there and give our experts turns, or talk about a public hearing.	00:19:56
	Is because in order to get through this agenda, it is my responsibility in order to keep that decorum in the meeting.	00:20:05
	It is not so that I'm talking over you. It's not to stop people from talking. It's to clarify the points of business. So Marty,	00:20:11
	wait, I need you to listen as much as I need Jake to listen. So when I'm sitting there and I say, Jake, what is it that you need	00:20:17
	done? Once I identify it, then I clarify it for the public.	00:20:23
	And if there's somebody that's disrupting?	00:20:29
	And if there's something that's disrupting the meeting, I have to be able to acknowledge it and explain it to the public.	00:20:31
	So this, this is what is part of this job and anybody that sits in this role has to do this and we all have to share a mutual	00:20:37
	respect.	00:20:41
	For this opportunity to get through the agenda.	00:20:45
	So just go to the next memo.	00:20:49
	And you know, just as background, these are just three topics that have come up a lot for discussion. And so I've done some	00:20:52
	research to bring to you some some information.	00:20:56
	The second memo is about the impact on Alpine School District. Well, really the impact on.	00:21:00
	The RDA and the Geneva Urban Renewal project of the dissolution of the Alpine School District in the formation of the three new	00:21:06
	school districts.	00:21:10
	The school district Vineyard will be in is essentially the leftover space because.	00:21:14
	The initiative.	00:21:19
	That was adopted by voters created 2 new school districts leaving over a bunch of area like Orem and Vineyard that will be known	00:21:21
	as the Timpanogos School District.	00:21:26
	So one question that's been asked is.	00:21:31
	So what, if any, impact on the existing tax increment financing?	00:21:34
	That applies to the Geneva urban renewal area. Will there be because there's a new school district?	00:21:39
	And it's pretty simple answer. The law is very clear.	00:21:45
	Under the code section that's cited here in the memo, it says a resolution or interlocal agreement executed by a taxing entity	00:21:49
	under this section may be enforced by or against any successor taxing entity.	00:21:56
	If you look throughout Utah County in the footprint of the existing Alpine School District.	00:22:02
	There are a number of other RDA areas with tax increment financing that's that's going on that are not inside Vineyard.	00:22:07
	And all of them are going to be treated.	00:22:15
	Similarly to how they were treated when the Canyon school districts split in Salt Lake County.	00:22:17
	And so nothing in the code would give the new school district.	00:22:23
	Any legal ability to.	00:22:28
	You know, erase or or change those legal agreements, the successor taxing entity of the Alpine School District as far as Vineyard	00:22:31
	is concerned.	00:22:36
	Would be bound by the previous legal agreements related tax increment financing.	00:22:41
	It is interesting that in 2025, the legislature, in anticipation of the school district split, clarified the law on some things.	00:22:46
	And you know, I think if this needed clarity, they would have added that. I I don't think that this needs clarity, but.	00:22:54
	It is interesting that they intentionally passed a bill to just.	00:23:01
	Codify things like new school districts and reorganize. School districts are required to continue living taxes to meet outstanding	00:23:05
	bonded indebtedness and other financial commitments made by the divided district.	00:23:11
	You know, I think that that clarifies the intent of the law, which is that a successor school district inherits the same	00:23:18
	obligations, including bonded indebtedness and other financial commitments.	00:23:24
	Another section of that bill said new school districts are prohibited from voiding existing financial obligations, including	00:23:30
	agreements that impact tax levies or debt repayment, without mutual agreement between the new and reorganized districts. So.	00:23:36
	Current law is clear change. Recent changes to the law specifically targeted at.	00:23:43
	At the the split of the Alpine School District further clarified that.	00:23:50
	That same principle that the Alpine School District obligations will.	00:23:54
	Continue to the successor of school districts, as applicable.	00:24:00
	In our case, in Vineyard, the new Timpanogo School District would.	00:24:04
	Inherit the same obligations.	00:24:07
	For tax increment financing.	00:24:10
	There's a section here that kind of reviews.	00:24:13
	Tax entity committee actions.	00:24:15
	That originally occurred back in 2010 and 2011. So there's kind of a list of those and some references to the the minutes of the	00:24:18
	Tax Immunity Committee.	00:24:23
	Different obligations that.	00:24:27
	That were agreed to by the Taxing Entity Committee.	00:24:29
	But that's that's the basic gist of this memo. Any questions about that?	00:24:33
	Any questions?	00:24:38
	I mean, if I'm allowed to talk I will, but if not then I won't. I'm not happy to answer it. You're allowed to talk. Please go	00:24:43
	ahead. And if you have business on the table, I'd just like to explain.	00:24:48
	In its entirety, what I understood happened and walked me through through the state auditor.	00:24:55
	So from Seth of how this happened or how it was extended?	00:25:00
	Every RDA in the state functions the same where the entities that it's their money, so our education dollars.	00:25:06
	For meeting our school board.	00:25:14
	And our counting.	00:25:16
	I spoke with Commissioner Skylar Beltran about this. Every December he looks over his Rdas.	00:25:18
	He's brand new but and everyone on the list and it just so happens that the Vineyard RDA is not on that list.	00:25:24
	When our RDA was coming up to get an extension instead of following law at that time and working and functioning like every other	00:25:32
	RDA.	00:25:37
	Our developers went to the state legislature. A legal path.	00:25:44
	And said, senators, will you run a bill?	00:25:48
	So that we don't need to go and ask for the school districts.	00:25:51
	Vote and the counties vote.	00:25:56
	To give us more money.	00:25:59
	We would like the Legislature.	00:26:01
	To create a new process, a legal process that has never been done and will never be done again.	00:26:03
	I've been told that.	00:26:11
	We will be.	00:26:13
	Not subject to have to get we will just notify them that we're going to be extending the life of the RDA. Katie, what is the	00:26:15
	business I just want to make sure that people understand that that's.	00:26:21
	And it's legal.	00:26:27
	This is completely legal for the developer to go and do this.	00:26:28
	But we created a completely new process.	00:26:33
	And so when we asked how was this extended back in January and February of these meetings, we were like, why is this? Why is there	00:26:36
	no vote?	00:26:40
	From the school district approving this, this is.	00:26:44
	Millions of dollars of their money.	00:26:47
	And there's no vote and it then yeah, you're right, the the legislative body.	00:26:51
	Can supersede them.	00:26:57
	And say look.	00:26:59
	We're gonna bypass that, but I just want people to understand that new legal process on the table then, 'cause this is the same	00:27:00
	thing that you just said on the first item that we changed yourself again.	00:27:06
	Also, what good is that land going to be if it doesn't, if it doesn't get remediated and built on? So we're not arguing. We're not	00:27:13
	arguing that.	00:27:17
	We're not arguing that I want all of you. I want all of you to pay attention to what is occurring right now. You have repeated	00:27:22
	yourself after the first memo. For the second time, we are having the same discussion.	00:27:28
	We are going to stop this. We're going to get to the next discussion.	00:27:34
	There is going to be a public hearing on the fiscal tentative budget. I think that would be an appropriate time to make your	00:27:42
	comment.	00:27:45
	Go ahead.	00:27:49
	Any more questions specifically about the Alpine school districts?	00:27:50
	What you know, did you guys have anything specific to this memo?	00:27:53
	OK, OK. And then?	00:28:00
	This, this, no, I think it's the next memo that I have question.	00:28:02
	Umm, so the next memo is just about the differentiation between annual agency budget, so.	00:28:06
	The uh.	00:28:14
	The Vineyard RDA is a community reinvestment Agency, or CRA, under state law.	00:28:15
	And uh.	00:28:21
	ACRA can manage one or more project areas. In the case of the Vineyard RDA, you manage one project area, the Geneva Urban Renewal	00:28:24
	Area.	00:28:28
	And there's two different types of budgeting activities that occur in the context of an RDA, a community reinvestment agency. You	00:28:32
	are the agency.	00:28:37
	That's your annual agency budget, which for example today we have public hearing for the future adoption which will take place in	00:28:42
	June of the annual agency budget.	00:28:47
	And that's a different budgeting process from the what's called the project area budget, which is?	00:28:52
	A defined term in state code.	00:28:58
	And so there was just some questions and I think some misunderstanding between those two terms, what that budget is and the	00:29:01
	process that you follow for budgeting so.	00:29:05
	The annual agency budget.	00:29:10
	What what you know one of the actions today is a hearing that's part of the law for annual agency budgeting. That's different than	00:29:12
	the project area budget which is a multi year budget.	00:29:17
	Which has to do with the total amount.	00:29:23
	Of tax increment participation, The rate of participation.	00:29:25
	So like in our case, 75% participation.	00:29:30
	So that project area budget was first adopted.	00:29:35
	By the Taxing Entity Committee back when they were meeting in 2010 and 2011.	00:29:39
	And that is the sort of document that says.	00:29:43
	That these are the taxing entity committee. These are the taxing entities that are participating. This is the rate of their	00:29:47
	participation.	00:29:50
	That's when they approved the 25 year.	00:29:54
	Increment collection period for any given phase of the project.	00:29:56
	And so this memo just outlines and cites state code related to the annual agency budgeting. So like for example, an agency shall	00:30:00
	prepare and adopt an annual budget.	00:30:05
	In the same manner and at the same time as a special district.	00:30:09
	Which is also very similar to the city's budgeting process. And so that's the process we follow every year for the agency, the	00:30:13
	annual agency budget.	00:30:17
	That is not something that the Taxing Entity Committee is involved in.	00:30:21
	So there's no.	00:30:26
	Meeting of the taxing entity Committee related to the annual agency budget. The project area budget is the multi year.	00:30:27
	Budget that was first adopted by the taxing entity committee and so there's there's state code that's about that process as well.	00:30:34
	So this memo just kind of.	00:30:38
	Outlines those two.	00:30:43
	Actions and the rules related to those actions.	00:30:44
	Thank you. Does anybody have any questions about the differences in budgeting and?	00:30:48
	Approvals.	00:30:54
	I do, but there's so many things I don't know if we have an appetite to get into it.	00:31:00
	Do you think it would be appropriate for you to meet with Josh? No, because I already know from the state auditor. I just think	00:31:06
	it's important it's on public record as to the different differences between our RDA and the normal functioning RDA.	00:31:11
	I mean, they're both legal, but they're just different. Well, can I make a comment? Sure. I think what's important, and maybe	00:31:17
	you're gonna touch on this, Marty is normal functioning.	00:31:22
	I don't think it's fair. We have an RDA that does something different. So if you want to say there's two types of Rdas.	00:31:28
	That you're categorizing.	00:31:36
	Rdas that follow a different set of rules versus our RDA that does something different and follows a different set of rules. I	00:31:37
	think what's important is that.	00:31:42
	We are following the law.	00:31:47
	And that this is the proper way for us to manage our RDA, Marty.	00:31:49
	I was just going to say that.	00:31:55
	It's Jake. I I don't mind you sharing what you want to share. It's what's hard is.	00:31:57
	I feel like you come in and you argue with an expert when I don't see you as an expert.	00:32:06
	I would rather hear it from the experts that you're trying to relay information from.	00:32:13
	But it doesn't need to happen.	00:32:18
	It doesn't need to happen this way.	00:32:20
	We invited them to be on the agenda and John's in the audience and we've attempted 4 different times to add him to the agenda.	00:32:23
	We've got one that we pay all day long, right, and and one that didn't disclose anything until we got the auditor involved. And	00:32:29
	then we found out that there was a separate process. And Bill Rare, that's not true, what you're saying. Did you guys disclose?	00:32:34
	Yeah. When you ask these questions in the beginning, this was brought up, right? You were a part of the process to run it. You	00:32:40
	were in office.	00:32:45
	When it was presented in 2023.	00:32:51
	I understood what I was voting for and I voted for it because it made sense and because it was within the law. It is. It is within	00:32:54
	the law.	00:32:57
	If you don't like the law that the state has made, we're getting we're going back and I take back my statement. We're not agreeing	00:33:02
	that wealthy developers can go to listen a point of order. We're going to we're going to we're not arguing. It's interesting,	00:33:08
	Jake, because that is what you're arguing. You're you're arguing all sorts of things that have kind of started that have nothing	00:33:15
	to do with the business on the table. You're making it look.	00:33:21
	Stop please. You're making it look like the city is doing things that are is illegal.	00:33:28
	That's great, and I'm really happy that you've acknowledged that in this meeting.	00:33:34
	You're also making it look like nobody is giving you these answers before. This is not true. They're now being written in a memo.	00:33:37
	So that there is written accuracy, so that when the people here you go and talk about it, we now have a memo that we can say	00:33:45
	actually not only has this been discussed, it's been done in written form.	00:33:51
	So now there is this additional information that's resting out here for availability that people can go and they can capture it.	00:33:57
	Since there is nothing more to discuss and you don't have a question between something on the table that has to do with this memo,	00:34:06
	maybe there's an accent that you guys want to talk about.	00:34:12
	Like, would you like to change the process that we're doing? Maybe you would like to see something on a future agenda?	00:34:17
	We could talk about that. I did have a question for Josh. So you and I had talked outside of council about my request last time	00:34:24
	when I said could we redo the look of the OR the.	00:34:30
	The membership of our RDA board and you gave me a really great answer, or at least.	00:34:37
	You gave me an answer, so yeah, great question.	00:34:42
	Yeah, thanks for for reminding me about that. So, yeah, in the previous discussion.	00:34:45
	More than one occasion, I think there was, you know, the notion or the idea that.	00:34:50
	Could we create?	00:34:54
	An RDA board that was different than the City Council. Could you, for example, appoint members of the community or other kinds of	00:34:55
	industry experts to be board members to the RDA board? State code is actually very clear it it prescribes that for an RDA that is	00:35:02
	sponsored by a municipality.	00:35:09
	The RDA board shall be the same as the City Council.	00:35:16
	So you don't, you don't have any flexibility in state law to constitute the RDA board any differently than the City Council.	00:35:21
	OK, With that, I'm going to move to the consent items. Can I get a motion?	00:35:28
	To approve the May 14th, 2025 RDA meeting minutes.	00:35:34
	So moved first by Marty, can I get a second?	00:35:39
	Second Second by Sarah. Any discussion?	00:35:43
	All in favor, aye?	00:35:47
	All right, we'll move to our business items. We're going to go over our fiscal year 20252026 tentative budget.	00:35:49
	Then going to a public hearing. I need a motion to go into a public hearing. So move. Thank you. Marty, can I get a second?	00:35:56
	2nd, Thank you Sarah. I have a second all in favor.	00:36:02
	Aye, any opposed?	00:36:06
	Alright.	00:36:09
	Go ahead, stars, for now in a public hearing. If you guys have questions, start thinking about him and I'll open up times for you	00:36:11
	to speak. I voted yes.	00:36:15
	I did put in the staff report. Oftentimes we'll put a few notes and so the code section here.	00:36:20
	I think one point of confusion in the past about project area budget and annual agency budget is there had been an errant	00:36:27
	reference to the section of code for the project area budget.	00:36:32
	That's updated here.	00:36:37
	Just to be clear, So what you're doing is part of your annual agency budgeting process and that's the code reference for annual	00:36:39
	agency budgeting. But this is the the budget exhibit.	00:36:45
	Umm, to what? You know we shared this as the tentative budget the last meeting.	00:36:50
	And, umm.	00:36:54
	Yeah, it's pretty simple.	00:36:56
	It does reflect the increase in increment collection from.	00:36:58
	Areas that we.	00:37:03
	Whether you triggered recently this year, that will be collected in calendar year 25 and will be part of your fiscal year 26	00:37:05
	revenue.	00:37:10
	You know a big chunk of that is an ongoing expense to environmental remediation, which is in our capital expense.	00:37:15
	OK. Are there any questions about that from the public? If there are, please come to the microphone, state your name. Come on up,	00:37:25
	John.	00:37:28
	And where are you from?	00:37:32
	My name is John Barrick. I'm from Orem. I am a Utah County taxpayer. Hold on, Hold on one second, John.	00:37:37
	Are you picking that up?	00:37:43
	OK, go ahead.	00:37:45
	I've got a couple of issues. First, I did ask.	00:37:47
	If the RDA had been extended and I've been asking that for almost a year and that was not answered until recently.	00:37:50
	I think, Josh, for answering that question and the legality of it and I will.	00:37:56
	Concede that at this point in time.	00:37:59
	But I did ask and it was not answered before.	00:38:02
	I have a resolution number T 2009 dash 1.	00:38:05
	Which I'm happy to provide to you which was the 1st.	00:38:10
	Resolution passed by the Tax Amenity Committee of the RDA.	00:38:14
	And I'm asking a question about that section 5C of that says in order to ascertain and stay abreast of the status of the project	00:38:19
	area.	00:38:23
	The taxing entity committee shall meet at least annually during the time the agency receives tax increment under a budget for the	00:38:27
	project area, which Josh told us about tonight. And I agree with them everything, everything, he said.	00:38:33
	But your own governing document states that the taxing entity committee shall meet if you get a tax increment, and according to	00:38:39
	that budget you've got, you're asking for a tax increment.	00:38:45
	And I'm asking if the taxing entity committee has met.	00:38:50
	And whether they've met between 2011 and now. And I believe the answer to that is no.	00:38:53
	It's this is important.	00:39:00
	Because this is the agency.	00:39:01
	That determines whether the the RDA is complied with the resolution under state underlying state law.	00:39:03
	If the RDA continues to collect and spend tax increment, but the TEC has not met annually as required under your own governing	00:39:10
	document.	00:39:14
	This would constitute a direct violation of the agency's own governing resolution.	00:39:18
	It would also be.	00:39:22
	Appear to be inconsistent with the statutory oversight framework outlined in the Utah Code.	00:39:23
	17 C 1402 through 4:08.	00:39:28
	Which establishes the teasing role. Can you see that number one more time? I'm sorry.	00:39:32
	17 C 1402 through 4:08.	00:39:36
	But your own governing document, which is T 2901.	00:39:40
	Is section 5C.	00:39:45
	Is the one that requires you to meet annually. It also requires them to meet annually to discuss the Open and Public Meeting Act.	00:39:47
	Which I don't think has happened either.	00:39:54
	But my final point is, is that.	00:39:56
	Attacking any committee serves as a critical safeguard or transparency and taxpayer accountability and the administration of tax	00:40:00
	increment financing.	00:40:04
	And ensuring the committee has met and has functioned as required.	00:40:08
	In your governing document.	00:40:11
	Or the TCS governing document is integral to the integrity of the RDA.	00:40:13
	So has the TC had any meetings since January 2011 in accordance with section 5C?	00:40:17
	And if not?	00:40:25
	What explanation does the agency have?	00:40:26
	For the lack of TC meetings despite ongoing receipt of tax increment.	00:40:28
	Thank you for your time.	00:40:33
	I'm happy to leave.	00:40:36
	Thank you.	00:40:41
	All right, any other comments?	00:40:43
	I think it's.	00:40:56
	And I've spent the last year with a very large group. Karsten Walker.	00:40:57
	Sean teaches at BYU on this topic and others.	00:41:02
	Umm, the taxpayers of Alpine School District.	00:41:10
	And the county?	00:41:14
	I feel like they need to understand that this new process was created.	00:41:20
	And in speaking with senators that that were involved in the bill and the new process and having our the developers, whoever those	00:41:27
	are.	00:41:32
	In setting up this new process.	00:41:37
	Need to understand that by circumventing them, those taxpayer dollars are theirs and it binded them for an extended period of	00:41:39
	time.	00:41:44
	And when when we came and met at the beginning of January and February of last year, not this year, but the previous year, we were	00:41:49
	just simply asking how it was extended. And Marty, if you knew about it then that you were backed it up and.	00:41:56
	I'm I'm shocked that it wasn't. Hey, this was the bill and this was why.	00:42:04
	I'm very grateful for Seth and the body of bringing those 3 individuals together with the state auditor.	00:42:08
	When meeting with them, they were like, no, you're not in compliance, this is how you're not in compliance and this is how a week	00:42:15
	later in going through legislative, they said.	00:42:20
	Actually, a bill was ran.	00:42:25
	This has never happened before, and it will never, and it hasn't happened since.	00:42:28
	And somebody running a bill.	00:42:33
	And I invite the general public to read and watch the very short discussion on the Senate floor and on the House floor.	00:42:35
	The senator describes this as a state RDA.	00:42:43
	To the senators, the senators do not understand that this is not a state RDA. These are five small government entities that	00:42:47
	created the RDA.	00:42:51
	In the House floor.	00:42:55
	One representative stands up and says, hey, I just want to ensure that the taxing entity committee is still going to vote, and the	00:42:57
	House sponsor said yes.	00:43:02
	Don't worry.	00:43:07
	It's the Vineyard RDA. They're the Tax Name Entity committee.	00:43:08
	We're not the taxing entity committee. They are.	00:43:12
	And it's not illegal for senators to be misinformed or not understand the bill. And it's not wrong for House sponsors.	00:43:16
	For them to understand it, and it's not illegal for developers to run a bill.	00:43:23
	Asking for millions of dollars and as long as that legislature goes and puts forth a legal process.	00:43:29
	That's totally fine.	00:43:36
	I don't think if you go back to October of that time.	00:43:39
	None of the citizens of Vineyard understood that that was what happening.	00:43:43
	Nobody knew that we were advocating for this bill.	00:43:48
	Nobody there was number record.	00:43:51
	So we gained the system.	00:43:55
	Actually.	00:43:58
	The reason that most of us live here are because of the we're not we're not. The RDA is great, totally awesome things that.	00:43:59
	And that we don't understand most people.	00:44:06
	Know that we want to live in vineyard there has to be a cleanup to make that happen then let's just do the legal process that was	00:44:09
	set up right we should ask the bottom line you're having that we created a new.	00:44:16
	Cleanup had to happen. We're not arguing that. It's a beautiful spot.	00:44:24
	All went in a legal process and here we are right and I completely understand All right guys take it looks like.	00:44:27
	You've made your statement. This is the third time that you've made it during this meeting.	00:44:35
	It's been made clear we've now had this discussion for the third time. Can I make a point of order? Sure. Or a clarification?	00:44:39
	I didn't know about the bill specifically. I knew that when I was voting in 2023 that I was voting on a legal action.	00:44:47
	And I supported why we were doing it.	00:44:55
	So no, I did not know back in 2020 when I was not on City Council.	00:44:57
	And it wasn't, it was made clear to me I was within the law. So that is what I understood. Are there any other comments from the	00:45:02
	public?	00:45:06
	Come on up please and state your name and where you're from.	00:45:11
	My name is David Pierce and I live in the Cascade neighborhood. I just have a couple of questions.	00:45:17
	And and that is.	00:45:23
	Is.	00:45:25
	Our RDA.	00:45:27
	Unique from.	00:45:28
	In size and in complexity.	00:45:31
	From any other RDA in the state.	00:45:34
	And the second question that I have.	00:45:39
	Is that?	00:45:44
	Relatively common.	00:45:47
	To treat things that are.	00:45:50
	Unique.	00:45:53
	In unique ways.	00:45:55
	Things that aren't compatible.	00:45:57
	Things that aren't.	00:45:59
	That are so different.	00:46:01
	From anything else that they have to be treated in a unique manner.	00:46:04
	And that's my question.	00:46:09
	Thank you.	00:46:11
	Anyone else?	00:46:14
	All right. We're going to go ahead and go out of the public hearing then I need a motion.	00:46:19
	Summit, Thank you, Marty, can I get a second?	00:46:28
	Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, Aye. All right. We're now out of the public hearing.	00:46:31
	Jas, you heard some of those questions or would you like to address them? Sure. In terms of the size and complexity of the RDA?	00:46:38
	The Geneva urban renewal area is the largest.	00:46:45
	Renewal area in the state.	00:46:49
	You know, I haven't checked a comprehensive search of state history that probably in the history of the state.	00:46:52
	I have done some research to compare.	00:46:57
	The Geneva urban renewal area to other similar sites around the country.	00:46:59
	There's probably less than a dozen that are in this sort of range.	00:47:03
	The other types of entities or sites that are similar to this would be like a former airport.	00:47:08
	Think, for example, if you ever drove by 70 out of Utah through Denver.	00:47:14
	The Denver International Airport used to sit.	00:47:19
	A lot closer to downtown Denver, just east of downtown. You know, airplanes used to go right over the freeway as a taxiway, and	00:47:22
	they've since moved the airport out to the northeast side of the city.	00:47:28
	So, you know, former airports that.	00:47:34
	Might occupy hundreds or 1000 acres or more.	00:47:37
	Large industrial plants. There's another.	00:47:41
	Similar steel plant to Geneva back east in Pennsylvania where they put a shopping mall on it.	00:47:44
	And so, yeah, it's, it's a pretty unique RDA and, and urban renewal area.	00:47:50
	Given its size, certainly its former industrial use, the.	00:47:56
	The sort of nature of what was on the site with thick concrete and different.	00:48:01
	Industrial, you know, buildings and things like that and and sort of in an urban area as well. A lot of these sites like airports	00:48:07
	tend to be at the edge of town, but the reason you would look at, you know, renewal or community reinvestment on a site like that	00:48:13
	is because well.	00:48:18
	You know, either that use has now expired or maybe urban and suburban growth is starting to hit up against this industrial site	00:48:24
	and there's a desire to move the industrial site. So those are the kinds of things that would impact it. But in terms of Utah,	00:48:29
	it's pretty significant.	00:48:35
	It's the largest.	00:48:40
	And.	00:48:43
	You know that the increment financing is only 25 years for any section of it.	00:48:44
	But again, the legislative record, they they did talk about that in committee and some of the discussion on the floor about the	00:48:49
	size and scope.	00:48:52
	Of the RDA for Geneva specifically.	00:48:56
	OK. Does he want to address any of the other comments?	00:49:00
	Umm, well, I mean, I think the memo kind of does.	00:49:04
	You know, talks about the TIF collection period, which was a question.	00:49:09
	There's questions about the state auditor. We've, you know, we've been having meetings and talking to the state auditor about	00:49:13
	different things that they've requested and.	00:49:16
	Haven't heard back yet. We anticipate hearing back from them. Well, and I think the question, I don't think it was a question	00:49:21
	about the state auditor as much as it was that they didn't understand this was a legal process that had been done that was not.	00:49:26
	Everyone.	00:49:33
	But no one's questioning the legality. From what I understand, you said that they had thought it was out of compliance and then	00:49:35
	you found out that it was had not done been done before.	00:49:40
	And it had not been done since that time. Keep going, Josh.	00:49:46
	I mean, I will say to that, to the state audit piece of it, I mean having been an auditor, county auditor.	00:49:51
	Your Jack of all trades, master of none. So in their defense, they're not a master of of.	00:49:57
	Everything they have to do some research, just as I did with the code and the legislative history. But I will say I got the	00:50:02
	impression early on in talking to some of the people, the state honors office.	00:50:07
	We're applying wrong sections of state code.	00:50:13
	And so I think it was helpful to kind of go and do the research, make sure that we had followed the process and make sure we were	00:50:16
	looking at the right sections of state code that were applicable in our in our case. So we have addressed this before in our.	00:50:22
	Meetings The statutory 17C1402-408 that talks about the difference between the TEC meeting since 2011.	00:50:29
	Versus our group that meets annually?	00:50:40
	I mean that makes.	00:50:43
	In our RDA meetings, did we want to address that now or should we address the legalities of that at a later time? Jimmy, I don't	00:50:45
	know if you want to add to that or if you'd like me to move on and we can post something on that later.	00:50:51
	We've we've talked about it in prior meetings. So I don't know if there's a point in delivering it if we.	00:50:58
	Put an answer in writing, we could do that. OK, we'll go ahead and put an answer. I would like people will be informed about it	00:51:04
	and people received that at that time. OK. I would like to address David Pearson comment because I believe it's actually factual	00:51:09
	in a very good statement.	00:51:13
	If you could imagine a tiny little city like this leading the largest RDA in the state.	00:51:19
	And the undertaking for it to be successful of that magnitude.	00:51:25
	Would be very important.	00:51:30
	And that's actually what I'm arguing is you would want the leadership and the expertise and bringing in the school district every	00:51:31
	single year they have.	00:51:36
	Manpower.	00:51:41
	They have the ability to oversee you.	00:51:42
	The county has the exact same thing and it would be ran and it would be more successful. And so having the taxing entity committee	00:51:45
	that hasn't met for 11 years.	00:51:49
	And saying statutorily, we don't have to do that.	00:51:54
	And then statutorily, we're going to run a bill to hey, words is never, we're just not going to tell. We'll notify them that we're	00:51:57
	going to extend this period of time. It's like.	00:52:01
	I wouldn't want to bring them in especially.	00:52:05
	If the developer is the one asking for it, he obviously. Developers obviously represent one value and they're really great people	00:52:08
	and we want them to be successful.	00:52:13
	But they also don't represent the taxpayers if it's good or if it isn't.	00:52:18
	The Utah Taxpayers Association already deemed that half of the RDA was a bad idea when it started.	00:52:22
	For the first 150 million?	00:52:28
	And so why not bringing in that expertise like I agree with you, it's huge that that's what we're trying to say is.	00:52:30
	That is nation.	00:52:38
	I'm going to allow this because she's addressing you so you can come to the microphone because there's a back and forth.	00:52:41
	Yeah, this is David Pierce.	00:52:47
	He lives in Vineyard.	00:52:50
	To address the absolute uniqueness.	00:52:56
	Of this project not only in Utah.	00:52:59
	But as Josh has pointed out.	00:53:03
	In the entire nation.	00:53:06
	I mean less than a dozen.	00:53:08
	Perhaps.	00:53:11
	Are this size.	00:53:12
	And it is.	00:53:14
	Absolutely common.	00:53:16
	To treat absolutely unique.	00:53:19
	Things differently.	00:53:21
	Because there is nothing to compare.	00:53:24
	Thank you. Hold on. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Hold off for a second.	00:53:27
	This is the fourth time that we're having this discussion. I'm going to address it because it's it's important that this is the	00:53:33
	fourth time.	00:53:37
	We have experts.	00:53:41
	That are addressing this.	00:53:43
	That have explained the law and it is being treated uniquely we have.	00:53:45
	The state that has a very watchful eye on it and is making sure that as a unique asset to the state that they've invested in, it's	00:53:50
	being taken care of, we are going to move away from this.	00:53:56
	Council is there or board, is there anything else that you want to talk about before we adopt the tentative budget because that's.	00:54:02
	We're not adopting it. Just kidding. There's no action before we close this meeting.	00:54:11
	I just want to say.	00:54:16
	To the people listening.	00:54:19
	Just, well, Josh.	00:54:21
	A while ago did a review.	00:54:24
	On the benefit to.	00:54:26
	Alpine School District and.	00:54:29
	And having this RDA.	00:54:30
	What a big difference it is.	00:54:33
	And to continue.	00:54:35
	The success of it and all you have to do is look around Vineyard.	00:54:36
	And everything that you see, the RDA is touched in one way or another.	00:54:40
	We wouldn't. Most of us wouldn't even be here.	00:54:44
	If it weren't so.	00:54:46
	Something horrible is happening. Will you yield to a question just.	00:54:52
	I know, just a question.	00:54:56
	I don't know. Well, no, it's just one question.	00:54:58
	If it's so great, the previous law only asked the school district.	00:55:02
	To say is this good?	00:55:07
	So why did we run? You know what you're just asking. You're giving these statements out. We don't have anyone from the Alpine	00:55:09
	School District. No. But if we said over the life of this, you will be paid 10s of millions, if not hundreds of 1,000,000 more	00:55:15
	than what you would get if it weren't remediated, what do you think their answer would be? All right, just answer my question.	00:55:22
	Well, that what do you think their answer would be? We take what we have without it, without it being remediated.	00:55:28
	Or we remediate it and you get 10s of millions, maybe hundreds. I can tell you. I can tell you what it would be.	00:55:35
	They already agreed to it. They put the investment in early, they created the RDA and they gave up that tax it.	00:55:42
	Increment knowing.	00:55:50
	The investment that would go in knowing.	00:55:52
	That they would be giving that up in order for the people that sit before us to move into the community.	00:55:55
	This is the fifth time we are discussing this.	00:56:00
	The reality is this.	00:56:04
	There have been statements made that are just assumptions, but the reality is before us. The data is before us. It is now written	00:56:06
	in memos if you want to go back and look at what is in writing.	00:56:12
	You can. It is accessible to you. You can look up the data and you can see how this has benefited the people of Vineyard.	00:56:18
	You can look up what future benefits it will have.	00:56:24
	That is available to you.	00:56:29
	These discussions that we're having are not fruitful.	00:56:31
	They don't have to deal with the benefit of the people.	00:56:34
	They do not have to do with the business.	00:56:37
	At hand.	00:56:39
	And saying that things were done inappropriately is just not accurate.	00:56:40
	Thanks for joining.	00:56:44
	Appropriately, all of these things have been addressed and now, John, the comment that you brought up will be put in writing and	00:56:46
	you will have that before you as well.	00:56:50
	I'm going to adjourn this meeting and we'll see you in about 10 minutes for the next.	00:56:54

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Transcript

	All right.	00:00:04
	We're going to go ahead and start our redevelopment Board agency meeting. The time is.	00:00:07
	Is it? Is it working?	00:00:13
	Yep, the time is 604. We'll start with an invocation and then we'll here we'll do our Pledge of Allegiance.	00:00:14
	Our father we're so grateful for this opportunity to meet together we're so grateful for the opportunity to work together as a	00:00:22
	community and to.	00:00:26
	Invest our time in building a beautiful place that we can all call home, and we pray that we'll be able to work together and.	00:00:30
	Humility and strategy for the better of our community. And we said this name of Jesus Christ Amen. All rise.	00:00:39
	For which it stands one nation under God.	00:00:53
	Individual with literacy and justice for all.	00:00:59
	All right, it looks like we have an RDA update and then we which we'll hear from.	00:01:10
	RDA Director.	00:01:17
	Josh Daniels.	00:01:18
	Great. Thank you.	00:01:20
	I have a couple of items.	00:01:21
	And then I'm going to share kind of a memo form.	00:01:24
	That address.	00:01:28
	A couple of different questions that have come up.	00:01:31
	In the past for discussion, so three different.	00:01:33
	Three different topics. The first one there's been some discussion previously about.	00:01:37
	The relatively recent action of the RDA Board in the fall of 2023 to pass a resolution to extend the life.	00:01:42
	Of the timeline for the commencement of increment collection.	00:01:51
	And so the first memo in your packet and online.	00:01:55
	Covers this topic SO.	00:02:00
	Some of the discussion in the past centered around the process for the vineyard.	00:02:03
	Redevelopment Agency board to.	00:02:09
	Extend the time frame for any given phase.	00:02:11
	Of the Geneva Urban Renewal Area Project.	00:02:15
	To be placed in the tax increment financing period. So a couple of things that are important here.	00:02:19
	Number one, the original project plan called for.	00:02:26
	Any given phase of the project to collect tax increment for 25 years total for any given phase.	00:02:30
	But there was kind of an assumption that the entire project would only take.	00:02:39
	Essentially a total of 35 years.	00:02:44
	Because the idea was that all the phases of the project would.	00:02:47
	Be triggered for tax increment collection.	00:02:51
	By the 1st 10 year period.	00:02:55
	Obviously for those that have been involved for a number of years and if you look at the history, it's taken a lot longer to	00:02:58
	prepare the site for commercial and residential development.	00:03:03
	And so.	00:03:08
	It seemed necessary to allow sections of the project to be triggered in the future for only a 25 year period, but that those	00:03:10
	probably wouldn't be triggered in just the first ten years.	00:03:16
	Of the project but later.	00:03:22
	And so, in 2020, the legislature passed a bill, Senate Bill 158.	00:03:24
	Which gave a specific.	00:03:29
	Option for the Vineyard RDA board.	00:03:32
	To pass a resolution to extend the time.	00:03:34
	For tax increment collection in any of the phases.	00:03:38
	Umm, beyond that 35 year total time frame. So.	00:03:43
	In 2023.	00:03:47
	The resolution.	00:03:49
	Basically said that.	00:03:51
	That the Vineyard RDA would extend the time frame.	00:03:54
	Beyond the original sort of total time limit, so that.	00:03:59
	Different phases of the project that were still under development or would be developed in the future could be triggered for the	00:04:04
	25 year maximum, but that they didn't have to be triggered right away to to have the 25 year maximum.	00:04:10
	And so you know, the question was well.	00:04:17
	How? What's the process for doing that? Because the process in code up until that point was to essentially reconvene the taxing	00:04:21
	entity Committee, which was the original body that authorized the participation and tax increment financing.	00:04:28
	And approved the original project area budget.	00:04:34
	So what the statute with the with the bill in 2020 allowed?	00:04:37
	Was in the in the event of a.	00:04:41
	Of a project area like Geneva.	00:04:45
	Where there was an inactive industrial site.	00:04:48
	And the Vineyard RDA board.	00:04:51
	The Community Reinvestment Agency, which is what you are, could go ahead and do that unilaterally without reconvening the taxing	00:04:54
	Entity Committee.	00:04:59
	And it was really important because in.	00:05:04
	The legislative history, the discussion both in the Senate committee, the House committee on the Senate floor, and in the Senate	00:05:06
	and in the House floor.	00:05:10
	Centered around sort of the need to.	00:05:14
	Give this extension because.	00:05:16
	Of the time it took for environmental remediation, there was some discussion specifically about the time that it took and and kind	00:05:19
	of the idea that the Camus had to be created. I don't think that was originally.	00:05:25
	Something that the.	00:05:31
	That the vineyard RDA understood clear back in 2011, but as environmental remediation took place.	00:05:32
	As the EPA was involved in terms of.	00:05:39
	Directing certain requirements and as the cleanup continued.	00:05:41
	It was clear that it was going to take a number of years more for the environmental remediation. I think you can just see that	00:05:45
	with your eyeballs as you drive through the city and you can see there's still a whole lot of concrete and other material that's.	00:05:51
	Being hauled out every day.	00:05:57
	And you know the site is obviously not.	00:05:59
	Prepared for commercial residential development immediately. Some sections closer than other sections.	00:06:01
	And so, with that in mind, the Legislature authorized the Vineyard RDA board, with a very specific exception.	00:06:08
	For an inactive industrial site.	00:06:14
	Of 1000 acres or more which?	00:06:16
	The Geneva Urban renewal area is the only such site in the state.	00:06:18
	And it was so explicit that.	00:06:22
	On the House floor when the bill passed.	00:06:23
	One member of the legislature who is a former City Council member, not from here, but.	00:06:26
	You know, all the same as familiar with city issues specifically ask the question so.	00:06:31
	You know, to the bill sponsor, they said. So what you're saying is that.	00:06:36
	The Vineyard RDA.	00:06:40
	Extend the time for tax increment collection for this site without any approvals or authorizations or resolutions of the taxing	00:06:42
	entity committee and the sponsor said yes.	00:06:48
	So it was very explicit that the legislature wanted to give specifically.	00:06:53
	The Vineyard RDA for the purpose of the Geneva urban renewal area.	00:06:58
	Additional time to capture the 25 year tax increment on any given phase of the project and that there would be no.	00:07:03
	Sort of time limitation.	00:07:13
	And so that that's why in 2023.	00:07:15
	The Vineyard RDA passed the two resolutions.	00:07:18
	To extend the time.	00:07:22
	For collection.	00:07:24
	Or really for beginning or commencing the collection of tax increment financing.	00:07:26
	Umm, on, on those parcels. So that's kind of what this memo goes through it.	00:07:32
	It cites the code and talks about the legislative history.	00:07:37
	And the discussion that took place in the legislature.	00:07:41
	And then the Vineyard Artier Board followed that protocol. They held the public hearing in October 11th and October 25th of 2023.	00:07:44
	And then passed resolutions.	00:07:53
	Related to that extension.	00:07:55
	And that is what this first memo.	00:07:57
	Goes through Hey Josh, did we hire a lobbyist to run this bill?	00:08:01
	No, the bill.	00:08:05
	Was uh.	00:08:07
	Run by state representative, so we had no lobbyists.	00:08:09
	Hired at that time.	00:08:13
	I wasn't here at that time. I don't know, but I know we did.	00:08:15
	Well, when I when I listen to the legislative history, it was the lobbyists for developers that were on the record saying that	00:08:19
	that they were.	00:08:23
	Pushing for this.	00:08:27
	We're gonna, we're gonna keep letting.	00:08:30
	I'm ready for questions. Yeah. OK. Did you have a question? Yeah.	00:08:33
	I fundamentally disagree with the.	00:08:39
	The timeline of events as to how this happened.	00:08:41
	Every RDA in the state functions the same. We're attacking entity committee, the revenues of which.	00:08:47
	Come from like our school district, our county.	00:08:54
	Our city, our sewer and our water.	00:08:58
	Will always set forth the parameters.	00:09:00
	The length? The total dollar amount.	00:09:04
	So last year when we came and asked you how this was extended, we were following.	00:09:07
	The protocol that is set forth in state law, that has been the standard going back years.	00:09:12
	The way this was extended.	00:09:18
	Was by running a bill.	00:09:21
	To change and make our RDA unique to any other RDA in the state.	00:09:23
	And over and over ruling and instead of justice, simply going back to those taxing entities because it's their money, it's the	00:09:29
	school district's money.	00:09:34
	It's the county's money.	00:09:39
	It's a very simple process to go and say this is your money, can we take an extension on that time?	00:09:41
	Instead of doing that process.	00:09:48
	We went to the legislature and ran a bill to say we don't want to notify them. Can we run a bill and extend it without?	00:09:51
	Having to do that process. Hey, Jake, can I call point order? What's like this is very important because this is their money.	00:09:58
	Let me finish my thought.	00:10:06
	I guess I hear a lot of concerns and frustrations about things that have already happened.	00:10:09
	Well, it's very important that the public record be described as to what happened.	00:10:15
	I understand we're sharing the past. You might as well say what happened.	00:10:19
	What is the point of your frustration? Because besides the public record, you said that. What do you want us to do about it? Hold	00:10:23
	on, Hold on. Actually, both of you. Stop Dave for a second. Stop date.	00:10:29
	You're not clarifying the public record, and I think that's really important.	00:10:36
	What is actually happening is that Josh stayed at the public record. He also stated that this was done by the law. He also stated	00:10:40
	that this was done through state law.	00:10:45
	If you don't like the way that the law works in the state, you can go and talk to the state legislators and whether or not you	00:10:50
	believe that the city.	00:10:55
	Is the one that pursued it or not?	00:11:00
	Whether or not this assumption that you're putting out to the public is true or not.	00:11:02
	The point is that John's clarified for the public was this was done according to the law. I'm not, I'm not questioning and so	00:11:07
	there's nothing.	00:11:12
	Business.	00:11:16
	That is being discussed right now, I think. Marty's.	00:11:20
	I think Marty's point.	00:11:23
	Is that we're here to fulfill the business of the city.	00:11:25
	What you're talking about is a state law, and if you do not like the way that state laws work.	00:11:29
	This is not the place to petition them.	00:11:34
	This is not the place to petition them, and it's also.	00:11:38
	It is not. It is not actually. You need to go to the state.	00:11:43
	And here, here's the difference.	00:11:46
	What you're saying to the public?	00:11:48
	Is intentions, ideas, thoughts, ways that you would have wanted to pursue a past issue because you think that it's better now	00:11:50
	whether or not you think your way?	00:11:55
	Is better than the way that it was done.	00:12:01
	The way that it was done was lawful.	00:12:03
	And according to the way that it needed to be done with the state in a way that was meaningful.	00:12:06
	And so telling the public that we did not do it in a way that was proper.	00:12:12
	Is improper.	00:12:17
	So I'm going to move on from this discussion. We're not even I'm going to move on from this discussion because you're not	00:12:19
	providing clarity.	00:12:22
	What you're saying is not true.	00:12:33
	I know.	00:12:35
	You just didn't disclose how it was done. No, Jake, I didn't. You and I didn't even have this discussion.	00:12:39
	What you're saying is not true.	00:12:44
	So Jake, what you're saying is not true and now it's been disclosed and clarified, Jake, now it's been disclosed and clarified.	00:12:47
	By our.	00:12:58
	Director.	00:13:01
	Who, when you ask for clarity, he went and he he went and found out.	00:13:02
	The answers for you.	00:13:09
	We didn't follow the same protocol we take. That's not the point of it. What you're doing, you're not discussing the OK, I'm	00:13:11
	calling this back to the table. This I will state it again.	00:13:17
	Right now you are talking about two pathways, one both pathways. Whether you like that pathway.	00:13:24
	Or you like another pathway. This was the legal and lawful pathway.	00:13:31
	If you want to discuss that later, you can go and have that discussion outside of this because right now we have to focus on the	00:13:37
	business.	00:13:41
	We've we've tried to put this on the agenda and have experts come and explain how this was extended. You just had a business, you	00:13:45
	just had an expert come and explain it to you.	00:13:50
	And it's been clarified. The law has now been clarified. Is there anything? All right, we're going to go ahead and we're going to	00:13:55
	move on to our consent agenda.	00:13:58
	Unless there are any further questions about this particular item, I'd be happy to have Josh answer the question.	00:14:03
	There's also two other I was gonna.	00:14:11
	Oh, I apologize, Josh. Go ahead. And just to cap this off, yeah, there's two pathways in the law. The the state legislature	00:14:13
	created a specific option for vineyards specifically to do it through a RDA board act.	00:14:20
	Which is what happened in 2023.	00:14:26
	So, OK, great. We'll go ahead and move to the next memo.	00:14:28
	The developers that asked for the extension, is that the land owners? Yeah.	00:14:32
	And there are, it's if you go back and you listen to the, I've listened to them, we listen to them today and extend, The funny	00:14:37
	thing is, is the vast majority of the people didn't know what was being voted on at that time. And there's nothing wrong with	00:14:42
	that.	00:14:47
	This, This is why we're moving off this topic and we're going to go to the next thing. You can't say such generalized statements	00:14:51
	that you're including our whole legislative House of Representatives or Senate and saying, no, hold on, you need to wait, please.	00:14:59
	You make these blanket statements that I find insulting to our legislation if they didn't know what they were voting on.	00:15:07
	Then let them come and sing the law, right? That's what we're No, no, Jake, it's not just that.	00:15:15
	It's that what Marty is saying is that there was a huge group of people. But Sauce did clarify.	00:15:21
	Yeah, I understand.	00:15:28
	In the minutes.	00:15:32
	That they had asked the questions that you're saying they clarified it for the people on the floor.	00:15:34
	And it was made known to the people who voted on it, and then the people voted on it.	00:15:40
	Notwithstanding any of that, that has nothing to do with the business of Vineyard right now.	00:15:45
	I don't know what we're afraid of. They're just giving us. This isn't being afraid of anything. This is that you're not clarifying	00:15:51
	the law.	00:15:55
	On the bigger picture.	00:16:00
	Did you hear what he said?	00:16:02
	The whole purpose of this have you, have you driven past?	00:16:03
	I've I've listened to that Geneva site.	00:16:06
	It is a giant mess and if it needs more time to be able to make it nice, then we need to support that it needs more time to make	00:16:08
	it nice. I'm not done.	00:16:14
	So I grew up here, I'm well aware of Geneva and the benefit that it created for multiple families. It was the place where blue	00:16:19
	collar people could come to work and are now living for their family.	00:16:24
	Right when Geneva pulled up, they left a giant mess for Vineyard and for Orem and for all of Utah County.	00:16:30
	And what they're saying is exactly what needs to happen to clean up that mess that's been sitting there for 25 years. And for you	00:16:36
	to not support it is actually a little embarrassing because you're from Vineyard.	00:16:42
	OK, so OK, hold on. I'm gonna ask you a question so I can know if we can move on from here. I don't know what we're afraid of.	00:16:49
	Just talking about what happened. Guys, just let us go. Jake, listen. Listen, Jake, stop and listen to me.	00:16:55
	Listen.	00:17:02
	Is there something that you would like to accomplish with a business? I think it's just say wait and wait. Is there something that	00:17:05
	you would like to accomplish?	00:17:09
	With the business of Vineyard today regarding your discussion, yeah, it's important that we establish how this was extended. OK.	00:17:14
	All right, then I'm going to take.	00:17:20
	The legal process has been clarified. We've established it, what you have said.	00:17:28
	Is not clarifying it except that there were two pathways. You illuminated that. Thank you.	00:17:33
	Josh sat and acknowledged that there's two pathways.	00:17:39
	And we followed the legal pathway. So now that we've accomplished the business that you'd like to accomplish, we're going to move	00:17:43
	to the second memo. Why? Why not just allow for a discussion on this, the discussion that we have the business.	00:17:50
	Jake, listen to me right now. Listen to me.	00:17:58
	OK, wait. Jake, stop. Stop.	00:18:02
	Stop K.	00:18:06
	We have to get through this. We can't be afraid of what We can't be afraid of what you did. Just just talk about it.	00:18:08
	Jake, stop.	00:18:17
	You have to stop.	00:18:21
	You are disrupting the meeting. All right, Jake, you are disrupting the meeting.	00:18:23
	Nobody is scared about this.	00:18:27
	No, stop.	00:18:30
	Please stop.	00:18:33
	This is part of the reason why it is so difficult to get through the agenda.	00:18:35
	This is a funny thing.	00:18:40
	This isn't, this isn't the way that we deal with business items.	00:18:42
	This is a very serious thing. We have to get through the business of our city.	00:18:46
	It's very important.	00:18:51
	And what you're saying to the people acting like we're scared to talk about it, acting like we're hiding things, acting like	00:18:53
	you're clarifying the law.	00:18:56
	It's not true.	00:19:00
	What you're saying is not true.	00:19:02
	And so now we have to actually get through the business that is on our agenda.	00:19:05
	And so, Jake, you had just mentioned to me that you wanted to clarify the process. Stop, Jake. Scott. Scott.	00:19:12
	Josh has already clarified the business. There's no reason for us to extend the discussion.	00:19:22
	We have a lot on the agenda.	00:19:27
	We have a lot of public hearings.	00:19:29
	We need to get through that.	00:19:31
	OK, Julie, I think, sorry, I think, I think both of you should stop if it's okay.	00:19:33
	Keep going, Josh.	00:19:40
	He was like, we moved to Sacramento. Marty, it's my job to actually navigate how this works. Party feel like you're talking,	00:19:41
	you're saying kind of the same things over and over. And I feel like, OK, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna establish this for the council	00:19:46
	that you can understand this.	00:19:51
	The reason why I ask people to stop or give people turns, or sit there and give our experts turns, or talk about a public hearing.	00:19:56
	Is because in order to get through this agenda, it is my responsibility in order to keep that decorum in the meeting.	00:20:05
	It is not so that I'm talking over you. It's not to stop people from talking. It's to clarify the points of business. So Marty,	00:20:11
	wait, I need you to listen as much as I need Jake to listen. So when I'm sitting there and I say, Jake, what is it that you need	00:20:17
	done? Once I identify it, then I clarify it for the public.	00:20:23
	And if there's somebody that's disrupting?	00:20:29
	And if there's something that's disrupting the meeting, I have to be able to acknowledge it and explain it to the public.	00:20:31
	So this, this is what is part of this job and anybody that sits in this role has to do this and we all have to share a mutual	00:20:37
	respect.	00:20:41
	For this opportunity to get through the agenda.	00:20:45
	So just go to the next memo.	00:20:49
	And you know, just as background, these are just three topics that have come up a lot for discussion. And so I've done some	00:20:52
	research to bring to you some some information.	00:20:56
	The second memo is about the impact on Alpine School District. Well, really the impact on.	00:21:00
	The RDA and the Geneva Urban Renewal project of the dissolution of the Alpine School District in the formation of the three new	00:21:06
	school districts.	00:21:10
	The school district Vineyard will be in is essentially the leftover space because.	00:21:14
	The initiative.	00:21:19
	That was adopted by voters created 2 new school districts leaving over a bunch of area like Orem and Vineyard that will be known	00:21:21
	as the Timpanogos School District.	00:21:26
	So one question that's been asked is.	00:21:31
	So what, if any, impact on the existing tax increment financing?	00:21:34
	That applies to the Geneva urban renewal area. Will there be because there's a new school district?	00:21:39
	And it's pretty simple answer. The law is very clear.	00:21:45
	Under the code section that's cited here in the memo, it says a resolution or interlocal agreement executed by a taxing entity	00:21:49
	under this section may be enforced by or against any successor taxing entity.	00:21:56
	If you look throughout Utah County in the footprint of the existing Alpine School District.	00:22:02
	There are a number of other RDA areas with tax increment financing that's that's going on that are not inside Vineyard.	00:22:07
	And all of them are going to be treated.	00:22:15
	Similarly to how they were treated when the Canyon school districts split in Salt Lake County.	00:22:17
	And so nothing in the code would give the new school district.	00:22:23
	Any legal ability to.	00:22:28
	You know, erase or or change those legal agreements, the successor taxing entity of the Alpine School District as far as Vineyard	00:22:31
	is concerned.	00:22:36
	Would be bound by the previous legal agreements related tax increment financing.	00:22:41
	It is interesting that in 2025, the legislature, in anticipation of the school district split, clarified the law on some things.	00:22:46
	And you know, I think if this needed clarity, they would have added that. I I don't think that this needs clarity, but.	00:22:54
	It is interesting that they intentionally passed a bill to just.	00:23:01
	Codify things like new school districts and reorganize. School districts are required to continue living taxes to meet outstanding	00:23:05
	bonded indebtedness and other financial commitments made by the divided district.	00:23:11
	You know, I think that that clarifies the intent of the law, which is that a successor school district inherits the same	00:23:18
	obligations, including bonded indebtedness and other financial commitments.	00:23:24
	Another section of that bill said new school districts are prohibited from voiding existing financial obligations, including	00:23:30
	agreements that impact tax levies or debt repayment, without mutual agreement between the new and reorganized districts. So.	00:23:36
	Current law is clear change. Recent changes to the law specifically targeted at.	00:23:43
	At the the split of the Alpine School District further clarified that.	00:23:50
	That same principle that the Alpine School District obligations will.	00:23:54
	Continue to the successor of school districts, as applicable.	00:24:00
	In our case, in Vineyard, the new Timpanogo School District would.	00:24:04
	Inherit the same obligations.	00:24:07
	For tax increment financing.	00:24:10
	There's a section here that kind of reviews.	00:24:13
	Tax entity committee actions.	00:24:15
	That originally occurred back in 2010 and 2011. So there's kind of a list of those and some references to the the minutes of the	00:24:18
	Tax Immunity Committee.	00:24:23
	Different obligations that.	00:24:27
	That were agreed to by the Taxing Entity Committee.	00:24:29
	But that's that's the basic gist of this memo. Any questions about that?	00:24:33
	Any questions?	00:24:38
	I mean, if I'm allowed to talk I will, but if not then I won't. I'm not happy to answer it. You're allowed to talk. Please go	00:24:43
	ahead. And if you have business on the table, I'd just like to explain.	00:24:48
	In its entirety, what I understood happened and walked me through through the state auditor.	00:24:55
	So from Seth of how this happened or how it was extended?	00:25:00
	Every RDA in the state functions the same where the entities that it's their money, so our education dollars.	00:25:06
	For meeting our school board.	00:25:14
	And our counting.	00:25:16
	I spoke with Commissioner Skylar Beltran about this. Every December he looks over his Rdas.	00:25:18
	He's brand new but and everyone on the list and it just so happens that the Vineyard RDA is not on that list.	00:25:24
	When our RDA was coming up to get an extension instead of following law at that time and working and functioning like every other	00:25:32
	RDA.	00:25:37
	Our developers went to the state legislature. A legal path.	00:25:44
	And said, senators, will you run a bill?	00:25:48
	So that we don't need to go and ask for the school districts.	00:25:51
	Vote and the counties vote.	00:25:56
	To give us more money.	00:25:59
	We would like the Legislature.	00:26:01
	To create a new process, a legal process that has never been done and will never be done again.	00:26:03
	I've been told that.	00:26:11
	We will be.	00:26:13
	Not subject to have to get we will just notify them that we're going to be extending the life of the RDA. Katie, what is the	00:26:15
	business I just want to make sure that people understand that that's.	00:26:21
	And it's legal.	00:26:27
	This is completely legal for the developer to go and do this.	00:26:28
	But we created a completely new process.	00:26:33
	And so when we asked how was this extended back in January and February of these meetings, we were like, why is this? Why is there	00:26:36
	no vote?	00:26:40
	From the school district approving this, this is.	00:26:44
	Millions of dollars of their money.	00:26:47
	And there's no vote and it then yeah, you're right, the the legislative body.	00:26:51
	Can supersede them.	00:26:57
	And say look.	00:26:59
	We're gonna bypass that, but I just want people to understand that new legal process on the table then, 'cause this is the same	00:27:00
	thing that you just said on the first item that we changed yourself again.	00:27:06
	Also, what good is that land going to be if it doesn't, if it doesn't get remediated and built on? So we're not arguing. We're not	00:27:13
	arguing that.	00:27:17
	We're not arguing that I want all of you. I want all of you to pay attention to what is occurring right now. You have repeated	00:27:22
	yourself after the first memo. For the second time, we are having the same discussion.	00:27:28
	We are going to stop this. We're going to get to the next discussion.	00:27:34
	There is going to be a public hearing on the fiscal tentative budget. I think that would be an appropriate time to make your	00:27:42
	comment.	00:27:45
	Go ahead.	00:27:49
	Any more questions specifically about the Alpine school districts?	00:27:50
	What you know, did you guys have anything specific to this memo?	00:27:53
	OK, OK. And then?	00:28:00
	This, this, no, I think it's the next memo that I have question.	00:28:02
	Umm, so the next memo is just about the differentiation between annual agency budget, so.	00:28:06
	The uh.	00:28:14
	The Vineyard RDA is a community reinvestment Agency, or CRA, under state law.	00:28:15
	And uh.	00:28:21
	ACRA can manage one or more project areas. In the case of the Vineyard RDA, you manage one project area, the Geneva Urban Renewal	00:28:24
	Area.	00:28:28
	And there's two different types of budgeting activities that occur in the context of an RDA, a community reinvestment agency. You	00:28:32
	are the agency.	00:28:37
	That's your annual agency budget, which for example today we have public hearing for the future adoption which will take place in	00:28:42
	June of the annual agency budget.	00:28:47
	And that's a different budgeting process from the what's called the project area budget, which is?	00:28:52
	A defined term in state code.	00:28:58
	And so there was just some questions and I think some misunderstanding between those two terms, what that budget is and the	00:29:01
	process that you follow for budgeting so.	00:29:05
	The annual agency budget.	00:29:10
	What what you know one of the actions today is a hearing that's part of the law for annual agency budgeting. That's different than	00:29:12
	the project area budget which is a multi year budget.	00:29:17
	Which has to do with the total amount.	00:29:23
	Of tax increment participation, The rate of participation.	00:29:25
	So like in our case, 75% participation.	00:29:30
	So that project area budget was first adopted.	00:29:35
	By the Taxing Entity Committee back when they were meeting in 2010 and 2011.	00:29:39
	And that is the sort of document that says.	00:29:43
	That these are the taxing entity committee. These are the taxing entities that are participating. This is the rate of their	00:29:47
	participation.	00:29:50
	That's when they approved the 25 year.	00:29:54
	Increment collection period for any given phase of the project.	00:29:56
	And so this memo just outlines and cites state code related to the annual agency budgeting. So like for example, an agency shall	00:30:00
	prepare and adopt an annual budget.	00:30:05
	In the same manner and at the same time as a special district.	00:30:09
	Which is also very similar to the city's budgeting process. And so that's the process we follow every year for the agency, the	00:30:13
	annual agency budget.	00:30:17
	That is not something that the Taxing Entity Committee is involved in.	00:30:21
	So there's no.	00:30:26
	Meeting of the taxing entity Committee related to the annual agency budget. The project area budget is the multi year.	00:30:27
	Budget that was first adopted by the taxing entity committee and so there's there's state code that's about that process as well.	00:30:34
	So this memo just kind of.	00:30:38
	Outlines those two.	00:30:43
	Actions and the rules related to those actions.	00:30:44
	Thank you. Does anybody have any questions about the differences in budgeting and?	00:30:48
	Approvals.	00:30:54
	I do, but there's so many things I don't know if we have an appetite to get into it.	00:31:00
	Do you think it would be appropriate for you to meet with Josh? No, because I already know from the state auditor. I just think	00:31:06
	it's important it's on public record as to the different differences between our RDA and the normal functioning RDA.	00:31:11
	I mean, they're both legal, but they're just different. Well, can I make a comment? Sure. I think what's important, and maybe	00:31:17
	you're gonna touch on this, Marty is normal functioning.	00:31:22
	I don't think it's fair. We have an RDA that does something different. So if you want to say there's two types of Rdas.	00:31:28
	That you're categorizing.	00:31:36
	Rdas that follow a different set of rules versus our RDA that does something different and follows a different set of rules. I	00:31:37
	think what's important is that.	00:31:42
	We are following the law.	00:31:47
	And that this is the proper way for us to manage our RDA, Marty.	00:31:49
	I was just going to say that.	00:31:55
	It's Jake. I I don't mind you sharing what you want to share. It's what's hard is.	00:31:57
	I feel like you come in and you argue with an expert when I don't see you as an expert.	00:32:06
	I would rather hear it from the experts that you're trying to relay information from.	00:32:13
	But it doesn't need to happen.	00:32:18
	It doesn't need to happen this way.	00:32:20
	We invited them to be on the agenda and John's in the audience and we've attempted 4 different times to add him to the agenda.	00:32:23
	We've got one that we pay all day long, right, and and one that didn't disclose anything until we got the auditor involved. And	00:32:29
	then we found out that there was a separate process. And Bill Rare, that's not true, what you're saying. Did you guys disclose?	00:32:34
	Yeah. When you ask these questions in the beginning, this was brought up, right? You were a part of the process to run it. You	00:32:40
	were in office.	00:32:45
	When it was presented in 2023.	00:32:51
	I understood what I was voting for and I voted for it because it made sense and because it was within the law. It is. It is within	00:32:54
	the law.	00:32:57
	If you don't like the law that the state has made, we're getting we're going back and I take back my statement. We're not agreeing	00:33:02
	that wealthy developers can go to listen a point of order. We're going to we're going to we're not arguing. It's interesting,	00:33:08
	Jake, because that is what you're arguing. You're you're arguing all sorts of things that have kind of started that have nothing	00:33:15
	to do with the business on the table. You're making it look.	00:33:21
	Stop please. You're making it look like the city is doing things that are is illegal.	00:33:28
	That's great, and I'm really happy that you've acknowledged that in this meeting.	00:33:34
	You're also making it look like nobody is giving you these answers before. This is not true. They're now being written in a memo.	00:33:37
	So that there is written accuracy, so that when the people here you go and talk about it, we now have a memo that we can say	00:33:45
	actually not only has this been discussed, it's been done in written form.	00:33:51
	So now there is this additional information that's resting out here for availability that people can go and they can capture it.	00:33:57
	Since there is nothing more to discuss and you don't have a question between something on the table that has to do with this memo,	00:34:06
	maybe there's an accent that you guys want to talk about.	00:34:12
	Like, would you like to change the process that we're doing? Maybe you would like to see something on a future agenda?	00:34:17
	We could talk about that. I did have a question for Josh. So you and I had talked outside of council about my request last time	00:34:24
	when I said could we redo the look of the OR the.	00:34:30
	The membership of our RDA board and you gave me a really great answer, or at least.	00:34:37
	You gave me an answer, so yeah, great question.	00:34:42
	Yeah, thanks for for reminding me about that. So, yeah, in the previous discussion.	00:34:45
	More than one occasion, I think there was, you know, the notion or the idea that.	00:34:50
	Could we create?	00:34:54
	An RDA board that was different than the City Council. Could you, for example, appoint members of the community or other kinds of	00:34:55
	industry experts to be board members to the RDA board? State code is actually very clear it it prescribes that for an RDA that is	00:35:02
	sponsored by a municipality.	00:35:09
	The RDA board shall be the same as the City Council.	00:35:16
	So you don't, you don't have any flexibility in state law to constitute the RDA board any differently than the City Council.	00:35:21
	OK, With that, I'm going to move to the consent items. Can I get a motion?	00:35:28
	To approve the May 14th, 2025 RDA meeting minutes.	00:35:34
	So moved first by Marty, can I get a second?	00:35:39
	Second Second by Sarah. Any discussion?	00:35:43
	All in favor, aye?	00:35:47
	All right, we'll move to our business items. We're going to go over our fiscal year 20252026 tentative budget.	00:35:49
	Then going to a public hearing. I need a motion to go into a public hearing. So move. Thank you. Marty, can I get a second?	00:35:56
	2nd, Thank you Sarah. I have a second all in favor.	00:36:02
	Aye, any opposed?	00:36:06
	Alright.	00:36:09
	Go ahead, stars, for now in a public hearing. If you guys have questions, start thinking about him and I'll open up times for you	00:36:11
	to speak. I voted yes.	00:36:15
	I did put in the staff report. Oftentimes we'll put a few notes and so the code section here.	00:36:20
	I think one point of confusion in the past about project area budget and annual agency budget is there had been an errant	00:36:27
	reference to the section of code for the project area budget.	00:36:32
	That's updated here.	00:36:37
	Just to be clear, So what you're doing is part of your annual agency budgeting process and that's the code reference for annual	00:36:39
	agency budgeting. But this is the the budget exhibit.	00:36:45
	Umm, to what? You know we shared this as the tentative budget the last meeting.	00:36:50
	And, umm.	00:36:54
	Yeah, it's pretty simple.	00:36:56
	It does reflect the increase in increment collection from.	00:36:58
	Areas that we.	00:37:03
	Whether you triggered recently this year, that will be collected in calendar year 25 and will be part of your fiscal year 26	00:37:05
	revenue.	00:37:10
	You know a big chunk of that is an ongoing expense to environmental remediation, which is in our capital expense.	00:37:15
	OK. Are there any questions about that from the public? If there are, please come to the microphone, state your name. Come on up,	00:37:25
	John.	00:37:28
	And where are you from?	00:37:32
	My name is John Barrick. I'm from Orem. I am a Utah County taxpayer. Hold on, Hold on one second, John.	00:37:37
	Are you picking that up?	00:37:43
	OK, go ahead.	00:37:45
	I've got a couple of issues. First, I did ask.	00:37:47
	If the RDA had been extended and I've been asking that for almost a year and that was not answered until recently.	00:37:50
	I think, Josh, for answering that question and the legality of it and I will.	00:37:56
	Concede that at this point in time.	00:37:59
	But I did ask and it was not answered before.	00:38:02
	I have a resolution number T 2009 dash 1.	00:38:05
	Which I'm happy to provide to you which was the 1st.	00:38:10
	Resolution passed by the Tax Amenity Committee of the RDA.	00:38:14
	And I'm asking a question about that section 5C of that says in order to ascertain and stay abreast of the status of the project	00:38:19
	area.	00:38:23
	The taxing entity committee shall meet at least annually during the time the agency receives tax increment under a budget for the	00:38:27
	project area, which Josh told us about tonight. And I agree with them everything, everything, he said.	00:38:33
	But your own governing document states that the taxing entity committee shall meet if you get a tax increment, and according to	00:38:39
	that budget you've got, you're asking for a tax increment.	00:38:45
	And I'm asking if the taxing entity committee has met.	00:38:50
	And whether they've met between 2011 and now. And I believe the answer to that is no.	00:38:53
	It's this is important.	00:39:00
	Because this is the agency.	00:39:01
	That determines whether the the RDA is complied with the resolution under state underlying state law.	00:39:03
	If the RDA continues to collect and spend tax increment, but the TEC has not met annually as required under your own governing	00:39:10
	document.	00:39:14
	This would constitute a direct violation of the agency's own governing resolution.	00:39:18
	It would also be.	00:39:22
	Appear to be inconsistent with the statutory oversight framework outlined in the Utah Code.	00:39:23
	17 C 1402 through 4:08.	00:39:28
	Which establishes the teasing role. Can you see that number one more time? I'm sorry.	00:39:32
	17 C 1402 through 4:08.	00:39:36
	But your own governing document, which is T 2901.	00:39:40
	Is section 5C.	00:39:45
	Is the one that requires you to meet annually. It also requires them to meet annually to discuss the Open and Public Meeting Act.	00:39:47
	Which I don't think has happened either.	00:39:54
	But my final point is, is that.	00:39:56
	Attacking any committee serves as a critical safeguard or transparency and taxpayer accountability and the administration of tax	00:40:00
	increment financing.	00:40:04
	And ensuring the committee has met and has functioned as required.	00:40:08
	In your governing document.	00:40:11
	Or the TCS governing document is integral to the integrity of the RDA.	00:40:13
	So has the TC had any meetings since January 2011 in accordance with section 5C?	00:40:17
	And if not?	00:40:25
	What explanation does the agency have?	00:40:26
	For the lack of TC meetings despite ongoing receipt of tax increment.	00:40:28
	Thank you for your time.	00:40:33
	I'm happy to leave.	00:40:36
	Thank you.	00:40:41
	All right, any other comments?	00:40:43
	I think it's.	00:40:56
	And I've spent the last year with a very large group. Karsten Walker.	00:40:57
	Sean teaches at BYU on this topic and others.	00:41:02
	Umm, the taxpayers of Alpine School District.	00:41:10
	And the county?	00:41:14
	I feel like they need to understand that this new process was created.	00:41:20
	And in speaking with senators that that were involved in the bill and the new process and having our the developers, whoever those	00:41:27
	are.	00:41:32
	In setting up this new process.	00:41:37
	Need to understand that by circumventing them, those taxpayer dollars are theirs and it binded them for an extended period of	00:41:39
	time.	00:41:44
	And when when we came and met at the beginning of January and February of last year, not this year, but the previous year, we were	00:41:49
	just simply asking how it was extended. And Marty, if you knew about it then that you were backed it up and.	00:41:56
	I'm I'm shocked that it wasn't. Hey, this was the bill and this was why.	00:42:04
	I'm very grateful for Seth and the body of bringing those 3 individuals together with the state auditor.	00:42:08
	When meeting with them, they were like, no, you're not in compliance, this is how you're not in compliance and this is how a week	00:42:15
	later in going through legislative, they said.	00:42:20
	Actually, a bill was ran.	00:42:25
	This has never happened before, and it will never, and it hasn't happened since.	00:42:28
	And somebody running a bill.	00:42:33
	And I invite the general public to read and watch the very short discussion on the Senate floor and on the House floor.	00:42:35
	The senator describes this as a state RDA.	00:42:43
	To the senators, the senators do not understand that this is not a state RDA. These are five small government entities that	00:42:47
	created the RDA.	00:42:51
	In the House floor.	00:42:55
	One representative stands up and says, hey, I just want to ensure that the taxing entity committee is still going to vote, and the	00:42:57
	House sponsor said yes.	00:43:02
	Don't worry.	00:43:07
	It's the Vineyard RDA. They're the Tax Name Entity committee.	00:43:08
	We're not the taxing entity committee. They are.	00:43:12
	And it's not illegal for senators to be misinformed or not understand the bill. And it's not wrong for House sponsors.	00:43:16
	For them to understand it, and it's not illegal for developers to run a bill.	00:43:23
	Asking for millions of dollars and as long as that legislature goes and puts forth a legal process.	00:43:29
	That's totally fine.	00:43:36
	I don't think if you go back to October of that time.	00:43:39
	None of the citizens of Vineyard understood that that was what happening.	00:43:43
	Nobody knew that we were advocating for this bill.	00:43:48
	Nobody there was number record.	00:43:51
	So we gained the system.	00:43:55
	Actually.	00:43:58
	The reason that most of us live here are because of the we're not we're not. The RDA is great, totally awesome things that.	00:43:59
	And that we don't understand most people.	00:44:06
	Know that we want to live in vineyard there has to be a cleanup to make that happen then let's just do the legal process that was	00:44:09
	set up right we should ask the bottom line you're having that we created a new.	00:44:16
	Cleanup had to happen. We're not arguing that. It's a beautiful spot.	00:44:24
	All went in a legal process and here we are right and I completely understand All right guys take it looks like.	00:44:27
	You've made your statement. This is the third time that you've made it during this meeting.	00:44:35
	It's been made clear we've now had this discussion for the third time. Can I make a point of order? Sure. Or a clarification?	00:44:39
	I didn't know about the bill specifically. I knew that when I was voting in 2023 that I was voting on a legal action.	00:44:47
	And I supported why we were doing it.	00:44:55
	So no, I did not know back in 2020 when I was not on City Council.	00:44:57
	And it wasn't, it was made clear to me I was within the law. So that is what I understood. Are there any other comments from the	00:45:02
	public?	00:45:06
	Come on up please and state your name and where you're from.	00:45:11
	My name is David Pierce and I live in the Cascade neighborhood. I just have a couple of questions.	00:45:17
	And and that is.	00:45:23
	Is.	00:45:25
	Our RDA.	00:45:27
	Unique from.	00:45:28
	In size and in complexity.	00:45:31
	From any other RDA in the state.	00:45:34
	And the second question that I have.	00:45:39
	Is that?	00:45:44
	Relatively common.	00:45:47
	To treat things that are.	00:45:50
	Unique.	00:45:53
	In unique ways.	00:45:55
	Things that aren't compatible.	00:45:57
	Things that aren't.	00:45:59
	That are so different.	00:46:01
	From anything else that they have to be treated in a unique manner.	00:46:04
	And that's my question.	00:46:09
	Thank you.	00:46:11
	Anyone else?	00:46:14
	All right. We're going to go ahead and go out of the public hearing then I need a motion.	00:46:19
	Summit, Thank you, Marty, can I get a second?	00:46:28
	Second. Second by Sarah. All in favor, Aye. All right. We're now out of the public hearing.	00:46:31
	Jas, you heard some of those questions or would you like to address them? Sure. In terms of the size and complexity of the RDA?	00:46:38
	The Geneva urban renewal area is the largest.	00:46:45
	Renewal area in the state.	00:46:49
	You know, I haven't checked a comprehensive search of state history that probably in the history of the state.	00:46:52
	I have done some research to compare.	00:46:57
	The Geneva urban renewal area to other similar sites around the country.	00:46:59
	There's probably less than a dozen that are in this sort of range.	00:47:03
	The other types of entities or sites that are similar to this would be like a former airport.	00:47:08
	Think, for example, if you ever drove by 70 out of Utah through Denver.	00:47:14
	The Denver International Airport used to sit.	00:47:19
	A lot closer to downtown Denver, just east of downtown. You know, airplanes used to go right over the freeway as a taxiway, and	00:47:22
	they've since moved the airport out to the northeast side of the city.	00:47:28
	So, you know, former airports that.	00:47:34
	Might occupy hundreds or 1000 acres or more.	00:47:37
	Large industrial plants. There's another.	00:47:41
	Similar steel plant to Geneva back east in Pennsylvania where they put a shopping mall on it.	00:47:44
	And so, yeah, it's, it's a pretty unique RDA and, and urban renewal area.	00:47:50
	Given its size, certainly its former industrial use, the.	00:47:56
	The sort of nature of what was on the site with thick concrete and different.	00:48:01
	Industrial, you know, buildings and things like that and and sort of in an urban area as well. A lot of these sites like airports	00:48:07
	tend to be at the edge of town, but the reason you would look at, you know, renewal or community reinvestment on a site like that	00:48:13
	is because well.	00:48:18
	You know, either that use has now expired or maybe urban and suburban growth is starting to hit up against this industrial site	00:48:24
	and there's a desire to move the industrial site. So those are the kinds of things that would impact it. But in terms of Utah,	00:48:29
	it's pretty significant.	00:48:35
	It's the largest.	00:48:40
	And.	00:48:43
	You know that the increment financing is only 25 years for any section of it.	00:48:44
	But again, the legislative record, they they did talk about that in committee and some of the discussion on the floor about the	00:48:49
	size and scope.	00:48:52
	Of the RDA for Geneva specifically.	00:48:56
	OK. Does he want to address any of the other comments?	00:49:00
	Umm, well, I mean, I think the memo kind of does.	00:49:04
	You know, talks about the TIF collection period, which was a question.	00:49:09
	There's questions about the state auditor. We've, you know, we've been having meetings and talking to the state auditor about	00:49:13
	different things that they've requested and.	00:49:16
	Haven't heard back yet. We anticipate hearing back from them. Well, and I think the question, I don't think it was a question	00:49:21
	about the state auditor as much as it was that they didn't understand this was a legal process that had been done that was not.	00:49:26
	Everyone.	00:49:33
	But no one's questioning the legality. From what I understand, you said that they had thought it was out of compliance and then	00:49:35
	you found out that it was had not done been done before.	00:49:40
	And it had not been done since that time. Keep going, Josh.	00:49:46
	I mean, I will say to that, to the state audit piece of it, I mean having been an auditor, county auditor.	00:49:51
	Your Jack of all trades, master of none. So in their defense, they're not a master of of.	00:49:57
	Everything they have to do some research, just as I did with the code and the legislative history. But I will say I got the	00:50:02
	impression early on in talking to some of the people, the state honors office.	00:50:07
	We're applying wrong sections of state code.	00:50:13
	And so I think it was helpful to kind of go and do the research, make sure that we had followed the process and make sure we were	00:50:16
	looking at the right sections of state code that were applicable in our in our case. So we have addressed this before in our.	00:50:22
	Meetings The statutory 17C1402-408 that talks about the difference between the TEC meeting since 2011.	00:50:29
	Versus our group that meets annually?	00:50:40
	I mean that makes.	00:50:43
	In our RDA meetings, did we want to address that now or should we address the legalities of that at a later time? Jimmy, I don't	00:50:45
	know if you want to add to that or if you'd like me to move on and we can post something on that later.	00:50:51
	We've we've talked about it in prior meetings. So I don't know if there's a point in delivering it if we.	00:50:58
	Put an answer in writing, we could do that. OK, we'll go ahead and put an answer. I would like people will be informed about it	00:51:04
	and people received that at that time. OK. I would like to address David Pearson comment because I believe it's actually factual	00:51:09
	in a very good statement.	00:51:13
	If you could imagine a tiny little city like this leading the largest RDA in the state.	00:51:19
	And the undertaking for it to be successful of that magnitude.	00:51:25
	Would be very important.	00:51:30
	And that's actually what I'm arguing is you would want the leadership and the expertise and bringing in the school district every	00:51:31
	single year they have.	00:51:36
	Manpower.	00:51:41
	They have the ability to oversee you.	00:51:42
	The county has the exact same thing and it would be ran and it would be more successful. And so having the taxing entity committee	00:51:45
	that hasn't met for 11 years.	00:51:49
	And saying statutorily, we don't have to do that.	00:51:54
	And then statutorily, we're going to run a bill to hey, words is never, we're just not going to tell. We'll notify them that we're	00:51:57
	going to extend this period of time. It's like.	00:52:01
	I wouldn't want to bring them in especially.	00:52:05
	If the developer is the one asking for it, he obviously. Developers obviously represent one value and they're really great people	00:52:08
	and we want them to be successful.	00:52:13
	But they also don't represent the taxpayers if it's good or if it isn't.	00:52:18
	The Utah Taxpayers Association already deemed that half of the RDA was a bad idea when it started.	00:52:22
	For the first 150 million?	00:52:28
	And so why not bringing in that expertise like I agree with you, it's huge that that's what we're trying to say is.	00:52:30
	That is nation.	00:52:38
	I'm going to allow this because she's addressing you so you can come to the microphone because there's a back and forth.	00:52:41
	Yeah, this is David Pierce.	00:52:47
	He lives in Vineyard.	00:52:50
	To address the absolute uniqueness.	00:52:56
	Of this project not only in Utah.	00:52:59
	But as Josh has pointed out.	00:53:03
	In the entire nation.	00:53:06
	I mean less than a dozen.	00:53:08
	Perhaps.	00:53:11
	Are this size.	00:53:12
	And it is.	00:53:14
	Absolutely common.	00:53:16
	To treat absolutely unique.	00:53:19
	Things differently.	00:53:21
	Because there is nothing to compare.	00:53:24
	Thank you. Hold on. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Hold off for a second.	00:53:27
	This is the fourth time that we're having this discussion. I'm going to address it because it's it's important that this is the	00:53:33
	fourth time.	00:53:37
	We have experts.	00:53:41
	That are addressing this.	00:53:43
	That have explained the law and it is being treated uniquely we have.	00:53:45
	The state that has a very watchful eye on it and is making sure that as a unique asset to the state that they've invested in, it's	00:53:50
	being taken care of, we are going to move away from this.	00:53:56
	Council is there or board, is there anything else that you want to talk about before we adopt the tentative budget because that's.	00:54:02
	We're not adopting it. Just kidding. There's no action before we close this meeting.	00:54:11
	I just want to say.	00:54:16
	To the people listening.	00:54:19
	Just, well, Josh.	00:54:21
	A while ago did a review.	00:54:24
	On the benefit to.	00:54:26
	Alpine School District and.	00:54:29
	And having this RDA.	00:54:30
	What a big difference it is.	00:54:33
	And to continue.	00:54:35
	The success of it and all you have to do is look around Vineyard.	00:54:36
	And everything that you see, the RDA is touched in one way or another.	00:54:40
	We wouldn't. Most of us wouldn't even be here.	00:54:44
	If it weren't so.	00:54:46
	Something horrible is happening. Will you yield to a question just.	00:54:52
	I know, just a question.	00:54:56
	I don't know. Well, no, it's just one question.	00:54:58
	If it's so great, the previous law only asked the school district.	00:55:02
	To say is this good?	00:55:07
	So why did we run? You know what you're just asking. You're giving these statements out. We don't have anyone from the Alpine	00:55:09
	School District. No. But if we said over the life of this, you will be paid 10s of millions, if not hundreds of 1,000,000 more	00:55:15
	than what you would get if it weren't remediated, what do you think their answer would be? All right, just answer my question.	00:55:22
	Well, that what do you think their answer would be? We take what we have without it, without it being remediated.	00:55:28
	Or we remediate it and you get 10s of millions, maybe hundreds. I can tell you. I can tell you what it would be.	00:55:35
	They already agreed to it. They put the investment in early, they created the RDA and they gave up that tax it.	00:55:42
	Increment knowing.	00:55:50
	The investment that would go in knowing.	00:55:52
	That they would be giving that up in order for the people that sit before us to move into the community.	00:55:55
	This is the fifth time we are discussing this.	00:56:00
	The reality is this.	00:56:04
	There have been statements made that are just assumptions, but the reality is before us. The data is before us. It is now written	00:56:06
	in memos if you want to go back and look at what is in writing.	00:56:12
	You can. It is accessible to you. You can look up the data and you can see how this has benefited the people of Vineyard.	00:56:18
	You can look up what future benefits it will have.	00:56:24
	That is available to you.	00:56:29
	These discussions that we're having are not fruitful.	00:56:31
	They don't have to deal with the benefit of the people.	00:56:34
	They do not have to do with the business.	00:56:37
	At hand.	00:56:39
	And saying that things were done inappropriately is just not accurate.	00:56:40
	Thanks for joining.	00:56:44
	Appropriately, all of these things have been addressed and now, John, the comment that you brought up will be put in writing and	00:56:46
	you will have that before you as well.	00:56:50
	I'm going to adjourn this meeting and we'll see you in about 10 minutes for the next.	00:56:54