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Transcript

OK, umm. 00:00:03
I'm called to order. 00:00:06
We are beginning the. 00:00:08
RDA meeting. 00:00:09
At what time is it really? 00:00:11
7:16 PM. 00:00:14
OK, so we're beginning the RDA meeting 7/16. 00:00:17
Damn, the date. 00:00:21
State. 00:00:24
OK. 00:00:25
OK, umm. 00:00:26
Um, welcome or thank you for staying. 00:00:28
See. 00:00:34
OK, so we have a presentation. 00:00:47
By Josh. 00:00:50
A little thought of that. 00:00:52
No, thank you. 00:00:54
Let's get our. 00:00:57
Presentation mode up here. 00:00:59
We can't hear you. 00:01:01
We're just going to work on getting this presentation mode. 00:01:03
Connected to the monitor. 00:01:06
English first one. 00:01:24
OK. 00:01:27
There we go. 00:01:57
What? 00:01:59
All right, all right, there we go. 00:02:06
Got her up here. 00:02:17
OK, so. 00:02:19
Couple of informational. 00:02:20
Reporting items and and in the course of these reports I'll find some opportunities as they are. 00:02:22
Relevant to some other points. 00:02:28
To address the questions that earlier were asked by. 00:02:29
Mr. Barrack. 00:02:32
Some others in the public and council member holdaway. 00:02:34
1st just to kind of recap. 00:02:42
So we talked about. 00:02:44
Three different. 00:02:45
Previous questions that had risen. 00:02:47
Discussion of the RDA. 00:02:50
Last meeting. 00:02:52
I was asked to recap some of that. 00:02:54
So the first background memo from last week had to do it. 00:02:57
With extending the life. 00:03:00
For tax increment, finance collection. 00:03:02
In the urban renewal area. 00:03:05
And so this was also the. 00:03:07
You know. 00:03:10
The subject of a question earlier. 00:03:11
So when the original project area was set. 00:03:13
The idea was that it would have a total time horizon. 00:03:17
35 years. 00:03:21
With any given area within the project area, any given phase. 00:03:22
Collecting tax increment for a maximum of 25 years. 00:03:27
Well, as you can understand the environmental remediation time and cost. 00:03:31
Umm, the area today is not fully ready for redevelopment. 00:03:37
There's still ongoing environmental remediation, there's a lot of material still being hauled out every day. 00:03:42
There's still lots of. 00:03:47
Large slabs of very thick concrete. 00:03:48
That exist under the surface. 00:03:51
Umm, there was the Camus creation, the Consolidated Area Management Unit that's that large. 00:03:53
Cover, uh. 00:04:00
Over a bunch of impact. 00:04:01
Did material from. 00:04:03
The former steel mill. 00:04:04
Because of the. 00:04:07
Delay, if you will. Or really, the unanticipated length of time for environmental remediation. 00:04:08
The Legislature. 00:04:14
Authorize the Vineyard RDA. 00:04:16
Quite specifically. 00:04:18
With SB158. 00:04:20
To extend the life for which they could begin tax increment finance collection. 00:04:22
So that. 00:04:28
All of the areas within the Geneva urban renewal area. 00:04:29
Could still be triggered in the future. 00:04:33
And have the total 25 years of tax increment finance collection. 00:04:35
A couple important things are. 00:04:39
No one area within. 00:04:41
The region. 00:04:44
Can collect tax increment finance for more than 25 years. 00:04:45
So it doesn't. 00:04:49
Lengthen the time the tax increment. 00:04:50
Can be collected. 00:04:52
It just pushes into the future. 00:04:54
The time for tax increment collection. 00:04:56
On certain areas that are really not. 00:04:59
Ready to be collected? 00:05:01
The theory of tax increment. Finance Collection. 00:05:03
Is you take an area that's blighted. 00:05:06
You begin redeveloping on it. 00:05:08
Once it's been redeveloped and it's now at the full developed. 00:05:10
Value uh. 00:05:15
You begin tax increment finance collection. 00:05:16
On that site. 00:05:19
And that's really the model that was envisioned for. 00:05:20
For the Geneva area, so that those revenues could be used to pay back. 00:05:23
The cost of the environmental remediation and the cost of the infrastructure. 00:05:28
That was built. 00:05:33
So that's that's the issue about the extension. 00:05:34
Umm, let's see here. 00:05:37
I think now is a good time to talk about. 00:05:41
Dollar cap. 00:05:44
Well, no, I'll talk about the dollar cap because I do reference it in a memo that was discussed. So I'll. 00:05:46
I'll talk about the dollar cap at that point. 00:05:51
But suffice it to say. 00:05:54
There was originally in the original budget a three a total $300 million. 00:05:58
Dollar cap. 00:06:02
The Taxing Entity committee. 00:06:04
At its last meeting. 00:06:06
In 2011. 00:06:08
Actually voted to remove the cap. 00:06:09
So there's no specific dollar? 00:06:12
But there is a cap in the sense that any area can only collect for 25 years. 00:06:14
And it collects what it collects. 00:06:19
And then those revenues are? 00:06:21
Really restricted to reimbursing the costs that are approved within the scope of the project area plan. 00:06:24
OK. So the second memo that we talked about last time. 00:06:35
Was the impact of the Alpine School District split on the Vineyard RDA some questions came up about. 00:06:38
Whether the successor district, the Timpanogos district? 00:06:43
Would still have to participate in tax increment financing. 00:06:47
The answer is yes, because successor districts. 00:06:51
Inherit all of the financial obligations. 00:06:54
Of the previous district in the same area that they serve. 00:06:58
And so. 00:07:01
As the Timpanogos district will serve Vineyard. 00:07:02
And the Geneva urban renewal area. 00:07:05
The Timpanogos district would inherit the financial obligation to participate in tax increment financing. 00:07:07
Now something though, that's important to think about here. 00:07:13
Is that? 00:07:16
Tax increment financing is not an ongoing. 00:07:17
Removal or extraction or diversion of revenue from the school district. 00:07:20
The real fiscal impact on the school district. 00:07:25
Is essentially. 00:07:28
In a one year new growth revenue calculation. 00:07:30
And essentially what happens is the year. 00:07:34
That properties begin tax increment finance collection. 00:07:37
Those properties. 00:07:41
Drop out of the new growth. 00:07:42
And are deferred. 00:07:45
To the year when the tax increment financing. 00:07:47
Expires. 00:07:50
And so essentially, what the school district is giving up. 00:07:51
Is they're giving up new growth revenue, let's just call it next year. 00:07:54
In exchange for new growth revenue in year. 00:07:59
26 when tax increment financing expires. 00:08:02
And what they're banking on is that the new growth? 00:08:06
Will be higher in the future. 00:08:09
Then it will be. 00:08:11
Presently. 00:08:13
But the school districts are still entitled to their budgeted revenue. 00:08:15
So if they adopt a budget of, let's say $50 million. 00:08:20
Per the law. 00:08:24
They received $50 million. 00:08:25
And most taxing entities. 00:08:27
You know they they have. 00:08:30
Just that. 00:08:32
That is all they plan on now in high growth areas taxing entities might anticipate. 00:08:33
That because they're in a high growth area. 00:08:38
That even though they set their budget at 50 million. 00:08:40
They might get 52 or 53,000,000 because. 00:08:42
They are pretty sure there's going to be new growth revenue. 00:08:45
That comes in, and that's certainly been the case in this area and in Utah County. 00:08:49
And so all the school district would be giving up is some. 00:08:54
Portion potentially. 00:08:57
Of new growth. 00:08:59
It's a pretty complicated calculation. 00:09:01
The State Tax Commission. 00:09:03
Is really in charge of determining what new growth is and how it's calculated. 00:09:05
The county. 00:09:10
Assessors obviously are involved in assessing the values. The county auditor is involved in some of the data. 00:09:11
But in terms of that new growth? 00:09:16
You don't know what it is until. 00:09:19
All the properties have been assessed and the State Tax Commission has been done at the calculation. 00:09:21
And then determined that. 00:09:26
As a taxing entity, you get your budgeted or certified rate revenue, in this example $50 million. 00:09:28
But there's new growth, which essentially means new properties added to the area. 00:09:34
And you know, those were valued at a certain amount and that might then produce some additional. 00:09:40
Revenue. 00:09:45
And so umm umm. 00:09:46
But but the I think there's some. 00:09:47
Misunderstanding that there's this ongoing. 00:09:49
Bite out of the apple, so to speak. 00:09:51
Of the school district. 00:09:54
Budget that's that's not accurate that they still receive their budgeted revenue as adopted. 00:09:55
In their budget. 00:10:01
Process. 00:10:02
The real fiscal impact is just that deferral, if you will, of new growth revenue that could have come in next year. 00:10:04
But because. 00:10:10
Those properties are placed into. 00:10:11
Tax increment financing. 00:10:12
That new growth gets deferred. 00:10:14
And then there's a bigger windfall in the future when tax increment financing expires. 00:10:16
Now with that said, that that's actually one of the reasons that extending the life is wise. 00:10:21
Because. 00:10:27
If umm. 00:10:28
The original 35 years. 00:10:28
Was kept. 00:10:31
Then you would have a pretty big. 00:10:33
1. 00:10:34
Cliff, if you will. There would be a hurry. 00:10:36
To trigger a lot of parcels all at once. 00:10:38
Rather than to trigger a phase. 00:10:41
Wait a few years, trigger a phase. Wait a few years, trigger a phase. 00:10:42
And when you do that staggered approach. 00:10:46
It actually means that. 00:10:48
Those one year deferrals. 00:10:50
Come back online sooner and they don't all happen at. 00:10:52
Once and there's a little bit more of a smoother fiscal impact and a little more predictability, I think there's some advantages 00:10:55
to extending the life because it. 00:11:01
Reduces those cliffs from being concentrated. 00:11:06
In a short amount of time. 00:11:10
So those are those are those two memos, the third memo. 00:11:13
Was about. 00:11:16
Annual agency budgeting and project area budgets. 00:11:17
So this is relevant because the Taxing entity committee. 00:11:21
Would have to approve. 00:11:27
Any change to a project area budget? 00:11:29
And it's important to understand that there's a difference between the RDA as an agency. 00:11:32
And your annual agency budgeting. 00:11:37
And your annual agency funds. 00:11:40
And a project area and a project area budget. 00:11:42
And a project and project funds. So project area budgets and project funds. 00:11:45
Are specifically tax increment financing revenues? 00:11:51
That is different. 00:11:55
Than the agency, the RDA, let's say. 00:11:56
If you were to, for example, budget. 00:11:59
To receive. 00:12:01
An outside grant, let's say from Utah County for parks development. 00:12:02
That would be considered. 00:12:07
Agency funds. 00:12:08
Not project area funds. 00:12:09
That would be part of your agency budget. 00:12:12
Not part of the project area budget. 00:12:14
And so the project area budget is really about. 00:12:16
Reporting in a transparent manner. 00:12:19
The tax increment financing revenues. 00:12:21
And the use of those tax increment financing revenues? 00:12:24
And so your annual budgeting? 00:12:27
As an RDA board. 00:12:29
Is agency budgeting. 00:12:30
And that's governed by one section of the code. 00:12:32
And there's a separate section of the code that talks about the project area budget, which is a multi year budget. 00:12:35
Not an annual budget. 00:12:40
And it's one that is adopted at the beginning of the project. 00:12:41
And which requires tax entity committee approval. 00:12:45
And require some other kinds of. 00:12:48
Reporting to the state. 00:12:50
Overtime. 00:12:52
And the project funds are tax increment. 00:12:53
Financing funds. 00:12:56
So that's an important distinction as well where I think there's been some. 00:12:58
Misunderstanding. 00:13:01
So that's just kind of a recap on those 3 memos. Let me stop there and see if there's any questions. 00:13:02
OK. Are there any questions? 00:13:08
From the. 00:13:10
OK, um. 00:13:16
Now let me move on to a fourth memo which addresses the question raised by Mr. Barrick at the last meeting about. 00:13:17
The annual informational meeting. 00:13:24
Of taxing entity committees. 00:13:26
Umm, so again, you know, this question came up in public comment. It's I think it's been kind of alluded to in other discussions. 00:13:28
So it's an important question to get to the bottom of. 00:13:34
And so we. 00:13:39
We hurried and tried to do some research here and shed some light on this trying to. 00:13:40
To answer. 00:13:45
The background here is that. 00:13:47
The RDA well. 00:13:48
The Taxing Entity Committee was formed in 2009 at the end of 2009. 00:13:50
They had some meetings, They had an initial meeting. 00:13:55
In 2009. 00:13:58
And then they had meetings in 2010 and then they had their last meeting in 2011. 00:13:59
In the beginning of 2011. 00:14:04
And so that. 00:14:06
Period of time. 00:14:07
You know, Cross. 00:14:08
Basically a year and a half or so. 00:14:10
Is when they went through the process with the RDA board kind of a back and forth? 00:14:13
Approving things like. 00:14:17
The finding of blight. This you know, the survey area, the finding of blight. 00:14:20
The project area plan, the project area budget and ultimately the participation. 00:14:24
In tax increment financing. 00:14:28
As was. 00:14:30
Discussed a little bit last. 00:14:31
Meeting there are. 00:14:34
2 pathways. 00:14:36
To do. 00:14:37
Tax increment. 00:14:38
Finance participation. 00:14:40
That's actually different than the extension, but it's it's sort of similar. 00:14:42
There's the taxing entity committee versus bilateral. 00:14:46
Interlocal agreements or contracts so. 00:14:49
The RDA board, for example, could enter into a contract. 00:14:52
With Utah County. 00:14:56
Or without Pine School District. 00:14:57
For tax increment financing participation. 00:14:59
Or back in 2009 it was common. 00:15:02
To do this taxing entity committee process where? 00:15:05
All of the taxing entities designate representatives. 00:15:08
And those representatives are then the taxing entity. 00:15:11
Committee. 00:15:14
And state law. 00:15:16
Outlines. 00:15:18
The roles and responsibilities of the Taxing Entity Committee under this type of process. 00:15:19
And at their very first meeting. 00:15:24
The Taxing Entity committee adopted. 00:15:26
And organizing resolution. 00:15:29
So after the last meeting. 00:15:32
That occurred in 2011. 00:15:35
There was #2012 meeting. 00:15:37
There was, you know, in other words, this idea of an annual meeting. 00:15:39
There was number annual meeting. 00:15:42
The very first year after it existed. 00:15:44
Nor was there an annual meeting in 13 or 14 or 15. Essentially, there have never been any annual. 00:15:47
At the time the Taxing entity committee. 00:15:55
It's a formation. 00:15:57
It's a creation. 00:15:59
Of the different taxing entities. 00:16:01
So, you know, it's interesting to think about well. 00:16:03
Who's in charge of the Taxing Entity committee? They are their own committee. 00:16:06
They are designated by the taxing entities. It's. 00:16:10
It's an interesting kind of body, if you will. 00:16:12
You know, is there anyone? 00:16:15
Agency that's more in charge of it than another. 00:16:17
Is it in charge of any other agencies? 00:16:20
And state law is pretty clear about what the role of the taxing entity committee is. 00:16:23
In the case of. 00:16:28
This taxing entity committee that was formed. 00:16:29
For this. 00:16:31
Renewal area. 00:16:33
The chair at the time was a Vineyard council member. 00:16:34
Nathan Riley. 00:16:37
He he actually. 00:16:39
Continue to serve on the City Council. 00:16:40
During those following years 2012, 2013, 14 all the way through. 00:16:43
I believe 2019 was his last year and I don't think he ran for reelection in 2019. So he wasn't there in 2020, but he was there for 00:16:48
several years. 00:16:52
After uh. 00:16:56
The initial taxing entity committee meetings. So as the question was raised, have there been annual meetings? Why haven't there 00:16:57
been annual meetings? The taxing entity committee itself said they were going to have annual meetings. 00:17:03
I don't know why they didn't have meetings. I haven't talked to Nathan. Maybe some of you know him. He might still live in the 00:17:09
community. I I don't know. 00:17:12
It'd be interesting to find out if anybody recalls or remembers. 00:17:16
Why they didn't meet? 00:17:19
But I think. 00:17:21
It could be as simple as. 00:17:22
Meeting annually wasn't actually a legal requirement, or really a legal role that the Taxing Entity Committee can play. 00:17:25
And so if you look in the original. 00:17:33
Resolution. That's where this section says. 00:17:36
In order to ascertain and stay abreast of the status of the project area. 00:17:39
Attacks and the committee shall be at least annually during the time that the agency receives tax increment under a budget for the 00:17:42
project area. That's the point that Mister Barrick was pointing to. 00:17:46
So this annual informational meeting. 00:17:51
Was something that the committee itself envisioned that it would do. 00:17:55
Who is responsible to make that happen? 00:18:01
Well, the taxing entity committee, I suppose. 00:18:03
Perhaps the chair? 00:18:06
They never did meet. 00:18:07
Why didn't they? I don't know. 00:18:09
But is that actually a legal requirement? 00:18:11
The question I wanted to answer so doing a little bit of research. 00:18:13
In state law. 00:18:17
We'll come back to this. This is a summary of the key. 00:18:20
Taxing Entity Committee Act. 00:18:23
That took place during their meetings. 00:18:26
And this is where the cap was removed. So I'll come back to that in a moment. 00:18:28
But I'll just get to the. 00:18:31
The gist of this memo which was. 00:18:33
The source of Mr. Barracks comments and questions. 00:18:36
Is really trying to answer. 00:18:39
As best we can this question of. 00:18:41
Why no annual meeting? 00:18:44
And is there an obligation to have an annual meeting? 00:18:46
The thing is, is that state code? 00:18:49
Is pretty clear. 00:18:52
In what? 00:18:54
The taxing entity committees. 00:18:55
May do. 00:18:57
And what they must do. 00:18:58
There's a list of things in Utah code. 00:19:00
If we go to the code. 00:19:04
Historically from the time. 00:19:05
As close as we can. 00:19:07
You know, there's a whole list of things. For example, it says at its first meeting, a taxing entity committee shall adopt an 00:19:10
organizing resolution. 00:19:14
Designating a chair and a secretary of the committee, they did that. 00:19:19
If the committee considers it appropriate, governing the use of electronic meetings. 00:19:23
That's it. There's nothing about at its first meeting. They shall. 00:19:27
Adopt an organizing resolution that says they have annual meetings. 00:19:31
Umm, of course they can have as many meetings as they need to do their statutory purpose. 00:19:37
And then that's really. 00:19:41
The subject of these. 00:19:43
Sections here. 00:19:45
Which Mr. Baird cited a few casting votes will be binding on the tax amenities. 00:19:46
Negotiate with the agency concerning the. 00:19:51
Project area plan. 00:19:54
Approving or disapproving an urban renewal project budget. 00:19:55
And economic development project budget. 00:19:59
Approving or disapproving amendments to the project budget. 00:20:01
Approving exceptions to the limits on the value and size of the project area. 00:20:04
Approve exceptions to the percentage of tax increment. 00:20:07
The period of time that tax increments to be paid. 00:20:10
Exceptions to the requirements. 00:20:13
You know, related to cumulative dollar amounts. 00:20:16
Approve the use of tax increment for. 00:20:19
Infrastructure. 00:20:22
Waive the restrictions imposed. 00:20:23
Subject to this, designate and approved. 00:20:27
Project area Budget. 00:20:30
Give other taxing entity committee approval or consent required or allowed under this title. 00:20:32
It's a fairly exhaustive list of specific things that Taxing Entity Committee is supposed to do. 00:20:37
And the point of the research I found. 00:20:43
Is that? 00:20:48
Nothing in there gives them the statutory authority. 00:20:50
To have a sort of self. 00:20:54
A self adopted or self-imposed. 00:20:57
Requirement to meet annually. 00:21:00
And so. 00:21:02
Basically at this point it's like, look, they didn't need annually. 00:21:05
The law doesn't. 00:21:08
Give them the authority to meet annually. Doesn't say they have to. 00:21:09
It doesn't. It's not listed in the things that they may do. 00:21:12
It's simply omitted. It's not. 00:21:15
It's not mentioned. 00:21:17
So. 00:21:18
Can they meet annually? 00:21:19
I mean, if they were to meet annually, would somebody sue them? You know, I don't know. That would be kind of the question. 00:21:21
They didn't meet annually. Is that a problem? 00:21:26
Is it a problem that their resolution said we're going to meet annually and then they never did? 00:21:29
I think these are the kinds of questions Mr. Berg's trying to raise. 00:21:33
Well, I mean I to me. 00:21:37
And help me with this, but to me it feels. 00:21:39
Inappropriate to put something into a resolution and not. 00:21:42
Do it. 00:21:45
Be it they were required to by state law or not. 00:21:46
So even though they never did it. 00:21:50
I don't know if we're justifying the fact that we have it. 00:21:54
Well, so it's a question of. 00:21:57
Can they? And that's that's where I get into some. 00:21:59
Some thoughts about statutory. 00:22:02
So, first of all, statutory authority. 00:22:05
The tech Only the tech exists. 00:22:07
Because of statutes, state statute. 00:22:10
Creates the idea of the Taxing Energy Committee. 00:22:12
So they are a function of state. 00:22:14
Of state code. 00:22:16
Which means their authority is limited to what the state code says they may do and shall do. 00:22:18
What about things they want to do that are beyond the scope of that? 00:22:23
Right. And that's that's where I. 00:22:26
I kind of look at. 00:22:28
This idea of. 00:22:30
Statutory interpretation. 00:22:32
I have another question. 00:22:34
The fork. 00:22:36
Jake, if you could let me ask my other question. 00:22:39
What I understand that Nathan Riley was on the. 00:22:43
But umm. 00:22:47
Who else was on that committee? 00:22:48
Good question and I guess. 00:22:51
Who? I guess I'm confused as well because I don't know who would continue down that committee. Like is it disbanded at this point? 00:22:53
Well, that's The thing is that. 00:22:57
The nature of the purpose of the tech. 00:23:02
Is that they need to do these foundational? 00:23:05
Beginning things related. 00:23:08
To a project area. 00:23:10
And once they've been. 00:23:12
Done those foundational things. 00:23:13
Authorize the project plan. 00:23:15
Adopt the project area budget. 00:23:17
Agree to participating in tax increment financing. 00:23:18
Once they've done all the things that the statute says they shall do. 00:23:21
They've exhausted their purpose for being. 00:23:24
They're not really a standing committee. They are formed for the purpose. 00:23:26
Of gaining the agreement of the taxing entities in participating in tax increment financing. 00:23:31
Which is a. 00:23:37
A1 time decision. 00:23:39
And so just like. 00:23:41
Now it's it's uncommon. 00:23:42
For there to be taxing entity committ. 00:23:44
Currently in Utah law. 00:23:47
The preference is to do bilateral. 00:23:48
Interlocal agreements with the taxing entities which. 00:23:51
I think is illuminated well by the fact that Councilmember Holdaway had asked about initially and others had asked initially 00:23:54
about. 00:23:57
What about interlocal agreements with our taxing entities? Why are there no interlocal agreements? Well, the reason is because we 00:24:01
use the taxing entity committee process. 00:24:04
And it is more common now for Rdas to use the interlocal agreement process. 00:24:08
But so if you have an interlocal agreement, that interlocal agreement spells out the relationship between you and who you contract 00:24:14
with. 00:24:18
And so. 00:24:22
You know, if you agree to a contract to have some sort of ongoing. 00:24:23
Conversation. Well, sure, maybe that's in the agreement. 00:24:27
But the. 00:24:30
Agreement is. 00:24:32
Tax increment financing participation. 00:24:33
And once that agreement was made. 00:24:36
By virtue of the fact that the Taxing Entity Committee met and voted to adopt the budget in a. 00:24:38
And adopt an agreed tax increment financing. 00:24:42
The contract, in a sense, has been set. 00:24:45
And the purpose for the committee? 00:24:47
Is no longer. 00:24:49
Yeah, that makes sense. 00:24:50
I'm done, Jake, if you had a question. 00:24:51
Umm. 00:24:57
I don't have a question. I just, I just, I just disagree with the timeline. 00:25:00
Of events just. 00:25:06
Living here and knowing the people. 00:25:08
And knowing how other RDA functions. 00:25:11
And so. 00:25:15
I know last meeting there were some fireworks in. 00:25:17
I wasn't even allowed to just go through. 00:25:20
What I know of the timeline and we say, well, we don't know the timeline and I'm. 00:25:22
I'm like, well, I, I know the timeline and I'd love to share it. 00:25:26
And I know last time it was so controversial to talk. 00:25:30
That I I don't want to start another argument. 00:25:33
But I definitely feel like I deserve a microphone to be able to say what I know. 00:25:36
Does anyone have any issue with taking? 00:25:43
5 minutes. I've asked. 00:25:45
To put it on the agenda many times, but. 00:25:47
I don't think it would take more than 510 minutes to walk through what we know. 00:25:49
Well, I think. 00:25:53
I think what we want to do is have. 00:25:54
A specific meeting just for this SO. 00:25:56
But we do this for 18 months, Sir. Like why can't I talk just for 10 minutes? 00:26:00
I mean, it doesn't even have to be true like sometimes in in government. 00:26:05
We disagree and can come from 2 separates. 00:26:10
Sides, but at least we get to air the. 00:26:12
Different sides and you can go away saying, oh, that's just not true or that I don't feel that's the way. 00:26:16
And I can. 00:26:22
Say the exact same thing and feel well, I actually. 00:26:23
Disagree. Right? 00:26:26
Well, so The thing is, is that. 00:26:28
When you. 00:26:31
When you have a lot to say. 00:26:36
A lot of things end up getting conflated. 00:26:38
And so it gets confusing. 00:26:41
And so this is the first time I've had that clarity. 00:26:42
On the tech. 00:26:45
And understanding that. 00:26:47
There's a lot more to it. 00:26:50
And The thing is, is that. 00:26:51
What you just explained, Josh, is that there's so many eyes on the RDA. 00:26:53
If we were doing something. 00:26:58
If we were doing something illegal. 00:27:01
Or unethical, I'm pretty sure. 00:27:04
It would come to the attention. 00:27:07
Of somebody really fast. 00:27:09
And so I think it would be wise, Jake, for you to write down all of your concerns and your timeline and everything you want to 00:27:11
address. 00:27:14
Any RDA and we have it we. 00:27:18
Schedule a meeting specifically to. 00:27:20
To address all of your concerns, all of your questions. 00:27:23
And we just get it out all on the table. 00:27:26
I think that would be really wise because. 00:27:28
All of the accusations. 00:27:31
That come forward. 00:27:32
Umm, sort of leave our heads reeling a little bit because we don't have. 00:27:34
We don't have the time or the information to. 00:27:40
To verify the things that you say when you say them. 00:27:43
So if you'll write down, take the time to write everything down that you want addressed. 00:27:46
And that will give everybody else time to. 00:27:51
To do a deep dive. 00:27:53
And find the answers that you're looking for and. 00:27:54
Put it out all on the table. 00:27:57
So I've confirmed what I know with the state auditor and and and so walking through this is no problem. 00:28:00
You know you didn't ask Marty to write down her questions or her comments. 00:28:06
We didn't ask you to write down your comments. No, you want you have specific, you have specific accusations on the RDA. 00:28:10
And we're offering a whole entire meeting just. 00:28:17
About. 00:28:20
Everything that you want to know. 00:28:21
Well Sir, I don't. I don't need someone to come and explain. Josh has explained the RDA 6 times to. 00:28:23
Me probably send the last 18 months right? 00:28:29
Well, right behind myself. 00:28:31
But if you take the time to write down all of your questions, because he's addressed quite a few of them tonight, I feel like. 00:28:34
And I feel like they've been addressed before too, but then you keep bringing up the same accusations. 00:28:40
So I feel like you're being really valuable for you to write everything down. You have everything. 00:28:45
Can I get 5 minutes? Is that OK? OK, 5 minutes go. 00:28:50
OK, from what I understand with the RDA. 00:28:54
When we were set up in 2011. 00:28:57
And it didn't trigger until 2016. 00:29:01
It was. 00:29:04
That mandated by state law that the taxing and city committee was to meet. 00:29:06
Annually. Uh. 00:29:10
To do so. 00:29:11
There's no question or ambiguity in there. Any single RDA was supposed to be. 00:29:13
But if they're. 00:29:19
So it was a previous state law that no longer exists. 00:29:21
I'm just asking this right now. You guys can do this. We didn't stop Josh and verify every single one of his laws. 00:29:24
OK, he's the expert. 00:29:31
So I'm just. 00:29:33
OK, so. 00:29:35
Yeah, go ahead. 00:29:36
Now I just. 00:29:38
I wanted to ask. 00:29:39
I'm sorry, Jake, I'm I'm actually listening. I'm actually wanting to understand you. So I was just wondering if you could clarify. 00:29:42
Yet after after 5 minutes and I got through the timeline, yeah, that's fair. That's. 00:29:48
I'll write down my questions. Keep going. 00:29:53
So that taxing entity committee. 00:29:56
Because it's the money of these governments, right? 00:29:59
They were supposed to come every single time and oversee our budget. 00:30:02
Things like us traveling to Europe. 00:30:06
Things like us hiring a lobbyist. 00:30:09
Things like us building a bridge or things like us putting. 00:30:11
Spending money towards the City Hall or the fire department or if possibly we were saying could we do the fire? 00:30:15
The fire. 00:30:22
Building. 00:30:25
I feel like you're translating things again. 00:30:26
That they should whatever our budget was annually they since it is their money. 00:30:29
It was in state code up until that point. 00:30:34
For whatever given reason, the taxing entity and I just want to say. 00:30:38
How amazing it would be to have these large government entities. 00:30:41
The county and the school district meet with us and look over and say hey. 00:30:45
Should we be traveling to Europe? Is this in the plan? 00:30:50
Give us some advice, let's have some meeting. 00:30:53
Oversight is really good. 00:30:55
Now you there's there was a comment made that we're doing something illegal or. 00:30:57
That we're doing something wrong. 00:31:02
Out of this step too far. That's never been said. Government waste is not illegal if the RDA vote. 00:31:04
To hire a lobbyist. 00:31:11
They can do that. 00:31:13
Right. And so when that. 00:31:15
In 2000. 00:31:17
Or whatever. 00:31:19
Facebook. The RDA. 00:31:19
Guidance to. 00:31:22
Right and. 00:31:26
Hey, Jake, you're cutting out. 00:31:31
Sorry about that. I don't know what's going on there. 00:31:34
So in 2020. 00:31:37
When they were supposed to go to the. 00:31:39
Instead of meeting annually, they obviously knew this was a requirement in law. 00:31:43
Nobody can say they didn't know this. 00:31:47
That's like, hey, we just forgot about it because it was so important that it was a legislative agenda to instead of just go back 00:31:50
to the. 00:31:54
School district and the county and to say. 00:31:58
Hey we need an extension. 00:32:01
The RDA at that time, in 2020, decided to. 00:32:04
Go and run a bill which is totally legal. Again, we're not saying. 00:32:07
That our RDA with school district money can't. 00:32:11
School district and or to the Legislature. 00:32:15
And say. 00:32:18
Hey, we would like this. 00:32:20
Clause in the law created and we want to operate differently than every other RDA in the state. 00:32:22
We don't want to have to to extend this. 00:32:29
We don't want to have to ask the county and the school district. 00:32:32
And it's totally legal. The legislature voted and they passed it. 00:32:36
Now we will see not. 00:32:42
So my initial problem is, is the way in which? 00:32:47
They're cutting out again. 00:32:55
For World Trade Center. 00:32:57
Memberships or different things like that, but. 00:32:59
It strikes me as odd that in 2016. 00:33:01
It was a law. 00:33:05
And so for five years, we didn't. 00:33:07
We didn't fulfill with that taxing entity committee meeting. 00:33:09
But then the law comes in in 2020, so for four years we weren't in compliant. 00:33:13
But we find this. 00:33:20
We find that a legal. 00:33:22
Work around to be able to do that and I'm going. 00:33:24
Why would we ever even want them? 00:33:27
Why would we not want them to meet with us annually? 00:33:29
Why would they we not want? 00:33:33
Them to know it's their money. 00:33:34
And #2 and this is my last. 00:33:36
Comment like. 00:33:38
If we don't have. 00:33:41
That and then we also don't have. 00:33:42
An interlocal agreement. 00:33:45
It's so critical at this point. 00:33:47
Because if there's no. 00:33:49
Agreement in place that dictates what we can and cannot do. 00:33:50
When Karen Cornelius comes and says. 00:33:54
Hey, can we use the money instead of for the City Hall to the fire department and we asked. 00:33:58
What is the guiding document if we can or we can? 00:34:03
And now we find out. Well, there's no interlocal agreement guiding. 00:34:06
The definition and the state auditor tells us hey. 00:34:10
It's really what? 00:34:14
If I want to do. 00:34:15
That's different from what we were hearing. 00:34:18
We're hearing that there was some sort of legal. 00:34:20
All right, you're cutting out again. 00:34:25
Take and it's and it's been 5. 00:34:28
It's been 6 months. 00:34:31
You want to wrap it up. 00:34:34
Now. Now, what we know is that our body. 00:34:36
Has US 5 the five of us get to spend $12 million annually on. 00:34:39
It's like a splash fun. 00:34:45
On what we feel in terms of. 00:34:47
Clean up. It's our definition of cleanup. 00:34:49
It's our definition of economic development. 00:34:52
And that is a really big shoulder. 00:34:55
To bear knowing that that oversight has been removed by law and I don't. 00:34:59
I would just recommend that the RDAP. 00:35:04
Council that we've operated for so long that it doesn't have an interlocal agreement. 00:35:06
I would strongly recommend that we invite. 00:35:11
Seth from the auditor. 00:35:14
Office, uh. 00:35:16
And I and I don't want to say is it legal. 00:35:17
Or is it ethical? 00:35:20
I want what is best in class. 00:35:22
What are the best? 00:35:25
Have you interrupt the agreement in place with these taxes? 00:35:29
And I'll bet you it says to have people. 00:35:34
OK, you're you're cutting out again. 00:35:40
But we're like it's 7 minutes now. 00:35:43
So I. 00:35:45
So excellent. 00:35:46
Point that we will. 00:35:48
Yeah, we need to look at. 00:35:50
Yeah, I, I I'd like to make a comment. 00:35:52
I appreciate that you got. 00:35:55
Your I feel like you articulated what your concern is and specifically it sounds like what next steps you recommend. 00:35:58
Is you want to go into an interlocal agreement with. 00:36:06
The different. 00:36:10
Taxing entities that are. 00:36:11
Affected by the RDA. 00:36:13
I since there isn't 1. 00:36:18
What is the basis for the way in which we spend right? It would only be the five of us deciding on what. 00:36:22
Budget is right, like what is our definition? 00:36:29
And then if. 00:36:32
Get year to year we have a change in the RDA Council then. 00:36:33
The definitions of what we're spending, since there's no guiding documents. 00:36:37
I mean, cleanup can be different. We could say we're removing flag from that building. 00:36:41
Well, others of us will say, well, there's value to that flag. 00:36:46
So. 00:36:49
They're making money off of the removal, so are we really? 00:36:49
But we can't have the slag when we're putting businesses there. 00:36:53
OK, hold on. 00:36:57
Because those definitions aren't in their local agreement. 00:36:58
We could all have different interpretations, so you. 00:37:02
You so you would not be satisfied with the. 00:37:05
So I get what you're saying. It'd be good to have clarifications on what our standards are for spending in the RDA. 00:37:09
Do we ha? 00:37:15
Is Jake right And we don't have that clearly defined? 00:37:17
In any documents. 00:37:20
I mean, I've understood it. 00:37:22
To be. 00:37:23
We can use it first and foremost for remediation, we can use it for infrastructure. But then he is right, there does seem to be 00:37:24
questions on other things as we move forward. 00:37:29
Is there anywhere that's? 00:37:34
Strictly defined by the RDA and I have a second question. 00:37:35
Date would you so? 00:37:39
You would not be dissatisfied with the. 00:37:41
Being more clear on that structure, you would want to take it a step further. 00:37:44
And have other. 00:37:48
In other people like the state auditor. 00:37:49
Helping us make that decision. 00:37:52
No, no, what I'm saying is, is that. 00:37:55
I'm very I'm. 00:37:58
Very uncomfortable. 00:38:00
If every RDA in the state. 00:38:01
Has overstock. 00:38:03
This is the people's money of those jurors, of those taxing No, for sure. Will you answer me that question? I'm. 00:38:05
I don't want to get too off topic so I'm just trying to. I really want to understand the issue at hand and. 00:38:12
What steps to solve it? 00:38:17
I understand that people are. 00:38:19
We all are affected by this. 00:38:21
Will you please tell me? 00:38:23
No, it's not us. It's the taxpayers, residents. We're all affected by this. I'm also a resident. I also pay taxes. 00:38:25
So I'm saying. 00:38:31
I understand all of those. I'm trying to be more specific to what your question or issue is. 00:38:33
What do you want? 00:38:38
To do. 00:38:39
If you I. 00:38:43
We could bring stuff in. This is going to be a longer. 00:38:46
30 or 40 minute conversation. 00:38:49
I feel like. 00:38:53
What we proposed before. 00:38:54
Has value. 00:38:56
And I I. 00:38:57
Say that we table this and do a whole. 00:38:58
Meeting umm. 00:39:01
About the RDA you write down. 00:39:03
Your concerns? 00:39:04
There's. I mean, I understand. 00:39:06
Karen Cornelius's question right, Why do we have to have a tax? 00:39:08
Rate increase. 00:39:12
Why can't we use the RDA? 00:39:13
And that's, I mean, all of those are questions that can be addressed. 00:39:15
Right. Umm. 00:39:18
And need to be addressed so everybody understands clearly, so things aren't just thrown out there without clarification because. 00:39:20
We are a special. 00:39:28
Circumstance and situation. Geneva is. 00:39:30
Definitely a special circumstance and situation and to not have. 00:39:33
Not have the $300 million. 00:39:37
Is right right now because 300 million in 2011 is totally different than 300 million. 00:39:40
Today. 00:39:47
And in 25 years, 300 million will be. 00:39:48
Even less, right? 00:39:50
And the cleanup of that. 00:39:52
Site is. 00:39:53
Huge if you've actually. 00:39:56
Looked at it when you drive past. 00:39:58
We don't even, we don't even know what it's going to cost to clean that up. 00:40:00
So our RDA is really valuable and it needs to be treated as something really valuable. 00:40:04
And to have a specific meeting so we can address all of these things. 00:40:10
And put everything out on the table. So there's, there's not speculation, there's not rumors, there's. 00:40:15
Not insinuations, I think would be really great and if. 00:40:20
We need to. 00:40:23
Do things better or. 00:40:24
Umm, figure out. 00:40:26
New resolution. 00:40:28
And then we move in that direction. 00:40:30
So I want to move forward. 00:40:32
Umm, do we? 00:40:35
Yes, next SO. 00:40:38
The last thing is we asked a question earlier during City Council. 00:40:42
Council meeting about. 00:40:45
About our lobbying. 00:40:46
And I think, I think Mr. Hartley confirmed this in the news report. I just wanted to clear up the record that. 00:40:49
He did, in fact we did hire him using RDA money to. 00:40:55
To lobby the school district against. 00:40:59
The oversight of the school district. 00:41:02
OK, you're. 00:41:03
Templating things. And so let's just bring that up. Let's just bring that up. 00:41:04
At the meeting that. 00:41:08
We just so if Josh to confirm. 00:41:10
I just wanted to put in public record that he's on the Ledger. 00:41:15
In those years. 00:41:18
Right. Well, well, and we don't want to, we don't want to speculate anything. 00:41:20
We want to speculate. Nothing we want. We want facts. We want to know what's happening. 00:41:25
Because. 00:41:29
That's the best. We shine light on everything. 00:41:30
The way it is not. 00:41:33
Speculating anyway, so let's. 00:41:35
Josh, did you have something you wanted to say? 00:41:37
Yeah, I wanted to answer Marty's question about the basis for spending decisions. What governs the the spending decisions of? 00:41:40
RDA funds. 00:41:47
So real quick. 00:41:49
A footnote back to what I said earlier. 00:41:50
There's something called agency funds and something called. 00:41:52
Project funds, project funds or tax increment financing, those are the funds. 00:41:55
I think Councilmember Hallway is talking about the idea that these other tax entities are participating and so. 00:41:59
You know the revenue that. 00:42:05
Vineyard receives in the project area. 00:42:06
Funding model through tax increment financing. 00:42:08
Those are project funds. 00:42:11
So your agency funds. 00:42:13
Are often beyond the project. 00:42:15
Funds. 00:42:17
When it comes to how project funds are spent, there's a variety of documents that govern how they're spent. You have state law 00:42:18
that. 00:42:22
Governs what Rdas and what tax increment financing can be used for and not used for. 00:42:25
That state law then informs. 00:42:32
The creation of the project area plan. 00:42:35
The project area plan. 00:42:38
Is your governing document. It is. 00:42:40
The Constitution, if you will. 00:42:43
Of the purpose. 00:42:45
Of the project area. The purpose of tax increment financing. 00:42:47
That's the document that. 00:42:50
That the Taxing Entity Committee relied on. 00:42:52
To agree to participate in tax increment financing. 00:42:55
And to adopt the project area budget. 00:42:58
You have the project area budget which is a. 00:43:01
That also is a good. 00:43:05
Guiding document. 00:43:06
And then the specific expenditure of funds for specific tasks. 00:43:08
And things like that. 00:43:12
Are often governed. 00:43:14
Not really on discretionary day-to-day spending decisions, but. 00:43:16
Based or pursuant to previously engaged. 00:43:20
Contracts, uh. 00:43:25
Where the RDA board. 00:43:26
Overtime. 00:43:28
Has entered into contract agreements with various parties. 00:43:29
Pursuant to state law, pursuant to the project area plan, pursuant to the project area budget, and those individual contracts 00:43:33
really spell out specific things. 00:43:37
But the RDA will or won't. 00:43:41
Pay for and how much they'll pay. So when it comes to environmental remediation. 00:43:43
You have contracts right now in place. 00:43:48
With contracted. 00:43:50
Parties, uh. 00:43:52
Who are conducting the remediation? 00:43:53
That spells out. 00:43:55
What you're paying for? 00:43:57
Similar with infrastructure that is developed. 00:43:58
You know, and usually those contracts are on a reimbursement basis where? 00:44:02
The RDA has agreed to reimburse this party or that party. 00:44:05
For these particular costs or those particular costs. 00:44:10
And and that's largely what drives your spending. 00:44:13
On an annual basis. 00:44:17
Project funds. 00:44:19
Are spent. 00:44:20
About 6,000,000 ish dollars a year on. 00:44:22
Debt service. So those are bonds. 00:44:27
That have been issued in the past to pay off. 00:44:30
Some of those reimbursements and then you pay them back overtime with interest, that's that's your debt service. 00:44:34
There's another. 00:44:40
32 to 3,000,000 a year. It varies year to year on environmental remediation. 00:44:41
Then there's another couple of million on specific reimbursement agreements for a particular. 00:44:46
Pieces of infrastructure that have already. 00:44:52
You know, been done. So for example 1650 N. 00:44:54
Is 1, there's 1500 N is another. 00:44:58
There's, you know, the infrastructure related to the X. 00:45:01
Development and. 00:45:05
Megaplex and Topgolf sites. 00:45:08
Umm, so you know that that pretty much sums up. 00:45:11
How you're spending your funds on an annual basis for a project area funds? 00:45:15
But I think, I think the short answer to your question is, yeah, there's a lot of documents that govern how you spend the money. 00:45:19
So that's what we were talking about. There's, there's a lot of eyes on this. It's not like. 00:45:28
Vineyard City is just doing this, however we feel like doing it. Everything has to go. 00:45:33
According to. 00:45:38
To the laws and regulations. OK, wait, let's not. 00:45:40
Keep doing this because we're going to have a whole meeting on this. 00:45:43
A whole whole meeting so. 00:45:46
Write everything down. You can write your timeline again. 00:45:48
What? 00:45:52
Someone in the audience. 00:45:54
And asked when that meeting will be. 00:45:56
And if we hold on, take care of interrupting me. 00:45:59
And if we wanted to have a meeting? 00:46:02
We could as a council. 00:46:05
To make sure that we do have a meeting, if that's. 00:46:09
Really. What our intent? 00:46:12
Or we would have to just leave it to the discussion of. 00:46:13
The mares she makes the. 00:46:17
Agenda, OK. 00:46:19
So after. 00:46:21
Budget. 00:46:23
So you would feel comfortable. 00:46:24
If we need a motion to have a meeting where we discuss. 00:46:26
I don't even know for sure because I didn't get to finish my conversation about what Jake's real issues are. 00:46:30
And just one more thing while we talk about the time. 00:46:38
I think it would be wise for the Council to. 00:46:42
You know, we talked about earlier about John. 00:46:46
You know, I was really troubled by. 00:46:49
The court cases that were in the. 00:46:51
Team in the. 00:46:54
Memo. 00:46:55
Yeah, that. 00:46:56
That would be something. 00:46:58
I don't want to, I don't want to go into that. But what I'm saying is, is that. 00:47:00
It is always good to get a second and third opinion and so when we schedule this meeting. 00:47:03
It would be incredible to and I know the state auditor. 00:47:10
Love to. 00:47:13
They help with this. 00:47:15
What is best in class? What does best in class look like for oversight? 00:47:17
And state, and I know they have recommendations #2 great that you're standing it. 00:47:21
How many? How many do you have? How many points do you have? 00:47:25
Yeah, you keep on saying. Just one more, Jake. 00:47:29
This is my concern. 00:47:32
I wanted to say something I feel like. 00:47:34
My frustration **** is. 00:47:37
I'm with you if we're doing something wrong. 00:47:39
Let's fix it if we need to be. 00:47:42
Better on whatever processes or we are indeed. 00:47:44
Well, I guess, he said over and over. We're not doing anything illegal. 00:47:47
You just don't agree with what we're doing. 00:47:51
My concern? 00:47:53
Necessarily. 00:47:55
I mean. 00:47:56
I want to respect the processes. I want the state to be OK with How? 00:47:57
Proceeding, but at the same time my number one priority is. 00:48:02
The Vineyard residents and how they are benefiting from this RDA, how we're being held accountable to the rest of the county. 00:48:06
But I don't love that you're always trying to bring in big oversight on what we're doing because I think that we have really great 00:48:14
goals for the city. 00:48:18
And as Sarah has said. 00:48:22
This is a really. 00:48:24
Important part of our city and our growth and our infrastructure. 00:48:25
And so. 00:48:29
I'm not so much worried about bringing in. 00:48:30
Other government entities to. 00:48:33
Be telling us how to run our RDA I am more concerned with. 00:48:36
What's the law? 00:48:40
Where are we at standing it? 00:48:42
And what is the best thing for Vineyard and its residents? 00:48:43
So, Sarah, I would encourage you to. 00:48:47
Finished. So here's. So here's what we're going to do. 00:48:50
We're not gonna. 00:48:54
Set a date. 00:48:55
Umm, take because you have a lot of concerns and questions. So as soon as you get all of your concerns and questions. 00:48:57
Over to Josh or over to Jamie, then we will set a date. 00:49:03
For a specific RDA meeting. 00:49:07
How does that sound? 00:49:09
So it's on, it's on you as soon as, as soon as you get everything. 00:49:10
As soon as you get everything. 00:49:13
You don't have a question. 00:49:15
I just described to you we don't have question. 00:49:17
We would like. 00:49:20
Well, we won't resolve. 00:49:21
So so the end goal. 00:49:23
Here, Jake. 00:49:24
Is resolved. 00:49:25
So we're going to have a specific RDA meeting where we come to some sort of result. 00:49:26
And understanding. 00:49:31
That vineyard isn't doing anything. 00:49:33
That vineyard isn't doing anything. 00:49:35
Out of the ordinary with our RDA. 00:49:39
That we're using it wisely. 00:49:41
And, umm. 00:49:43
That it's. 00:49:44
A massive benefit to all of the people who live here. 00:49:45
And if there's something we need to tweak or something we need to adjust. 00:49:49
Then at that meeting. 00:49:52
We'll figure out a resolve. 00:49:54
To do it better. 00:49:56
And that's the goal. 00:49:57
So we're gonna. 00:49:58
Move on and you if you have anything you want to address. 00:49:59
Or, uh. 00:50:03
The ideas you have to bring this to result. 00:50:04
So we can move forward. That will be great and we'll address it in the meeting. 00:50:07
Chair Cameron. 00:50:11
We do have. 00:50:12
Some additional presentation. 00:50:14
Before we move on entirely. 00:50:17
OK, let's. 00:50:18
Move on to. 00:50:19
Presentation. 00:50:20
OK. 00:50:21
I want to make sure I answered all the questions that came up and got through all the material. 00:50:23
There were two questions that weren't answered. 00:50:30
You can't talk without coming to the mic and you have to be invited. 00:50:32
So the point Mr. Baird was concerned about? 00:50:36
He raised this issue in the last meeting. 00:50:38
We hastily. 00:50:41
Tried to get some research and better understand the nature of the annual meeting requirement. That's what this memo is. 00:50:42
We sent him an advance copy. 00:50:48
I had a placeholder case name in here for the number one case. 00:50:51
And some bullets. 00:50:54
I've updated it so it's corrected. Those errors are corrected I. 00:50:57
Had not added citations to the final draft that I uploaded. 00:51:00
For you all. 00:51:04
But they have. They now have. 00:51:05
Links and. 00:51:07
In more detail, if you will so. 00:51:09
That the Hebrew, when he was talking about had the name wrong, had it as Wasatch County. It's the Public Service Commission. 00:51:11
And then the first case was just a placeholder name, but it's this. 00:51:17
Mckittrick Gibson Case. 00:51:20
But uh. 00:51:22
The purpose of the case law examples just to basically be a commentary on statutory interpretation. 00:51:23
Because. 00:51:29
The issue in the in the memo? Really. 00:51:29
Revolves around. 00:51:32
If there is statutory requirements for something like a tech, things that they shall do. 00:51:34
And there's a list of the things that they may do. 00:51:39
What about the things? 00:51:42
That they might want to do that are not on the list. 00:51:44
And so it's really a question of statutory interpretation. 00:51:47
On can they do it? 00:51:51
And there's this doctrine in the law called. 00:51:53
Espresso. 00:51:56
Which basically means. 00:51:58
If there. 00:52:00
Explicit list of what you may do. 00:52:02
Then anything not on the list are things you can't do. 00:52:05
Do they're excluded? 00:52:07
That's the legal doctrine. 00:52:09
And it's applied. 00:52:10
Commonly in courts around the country. 00:52:11
It's been applied in Utah in different cases. 00:52:14
So basically. 00:52:18
The court is going to look strictly. 00:52:19
At the language of the code. 00:52:21
And read it. 00:52:24
Pretty plain plain. 00:52:24
And if there's something that's unclear? 00:52:26
They're gonna look. 00:52:28
More to the legislative intent, you're gonna have to apply some interpretation. 00:52:29
The thing that's clear here is there's nothing. 00:52:33
Code that gives the tech. 00:52:36
The ability to meet annually. So it's this sort of idea that they were going to meet annually. 00:52:38
And they didn't. 00:52:44
And they had this resolution saying they would. 00:52:45
The state code tells us what they will, what they shall do, and what they may do. 00:52:49
Annual meetings not on the list. 00:52:53
So what does that mean? 00:52:55
Well, it. 00:52:57
It probably means they can't do it. 00:52:58
It sounds like there might have been an older. 00:53:00
Version of the code before 2014, which is the earliest I can go back. 00:53:03
And look at. 00:53:07
But I talked to some other RDA professionals around the state that said. 00:53:09
You know, does anybody need annually said no? 00:53:13
Nobody does annual. 00:53:15
Taxing entity committee meetings. 00:53:18
Part of the reason is most of. 00:53:20
Increment financing agreements or pursuant to interlocal agreements. 00:53:22
But also the idea of report. 00:53:25
Reporting back to the taxing entities. 00:53:27
Is something that has already been created by the state for the last. 00:53:29
Several years where there's an annual reporting requirement. 00:53:36
And the vineyard already? 00:53:39
Issued annual reports. 00:53:41
Every year that it has had tax increment financing. 00:53:43
There was an earlier reporting requirement where you would create kind of your own report. 00:53:46
And you would just post on your website. 00:53:51
There's now a uniform statewide annual reporting requirement where you upload certain information. 00:53:53
To the Governor's Office of Economic Opportunity, where they're tracking all the Rdas that are receiving tax increment financing. 00:53:58
Umm, of course you have information in your annual finance statements that are public. 00:54:06
That all the other tax entities have access to. All the taxing entities have access to your annual reports. 00:54:10
All the taxing entities have access to basically all of your business. 00:54:15
Umm, so I mean. 00:54:19
That's the nature of this annual meeting requirement is it doesn't appear that it's. 00:54:22
Legally binding requirement. 00:54:26
Even if the tech had passed a resolution. 00:54:28
In their founding resolution saying that they they wanted to meet annually. 00:54:31
And that's that's the purpose of the memo. 00:54:35
Now in the memo, I do. 00:54:38
Add the summary of key tech actions. This is also included in a previous memo, but. 00:54:40
The other point that Mister Barrett was talking about is. 00:54:47
Umm, that. 00:54:50
They uh. 00:54:53
Remove the cap so at the January 18 meeting. 00:54:54
In 2011. 00:54:58
The Taxing Entity committee. 00:55:00
Passed a resolution adopting the budget. 00:55:02
With an amendment. 00:55:05
To remove the $300 million cumulative cap on tax increment collection. 00:55:06
So Jim Carter, who was on the. 00:55:11
Was on the tech at that time. 00:55:14
He made the motion. 00:55:16
And it passed by a majority vote. 00:55:18
And so. 00:55:19
The budget, the official final Project Area budget, has no specific dollar cap. 00:55:20
And again, the cap is the amount that can be collected. 00:55:26
In 25 years in any given triggered phase. 00:55:29
So I think that answers the dollar cap. 00:55:32
Just for. 00:55:35
Kind of informational purposes. 00:55:36
So the RDA was created in 2009. The tech was convened in 2009. The tech stopped meeting in 2011. 00:55:39
In calendar year 2011, they actually. 00:55:47
Well, in calendar year 2012, they actually received some of the first increment. 00:55:51
And they've received 93,000,000 total, so. 00:55:56
The RDA, through tax increment financing, has received about 93 million in total. 00:56:00
Over the last 14 years, that's kind of where we're at. 00:56:04
So far. 00:56:07
Umm, and then let me see if there's any other. 00:56:08
Questions outstanding. 00:56:12
Yeah. So I think that kind of covers. 00:56:14
Those 4 memos. 00:56:16
This fourth one thing today and then. 00:56:17
There's also been some questions generally. 00:56:20
And that this actually kind of goes to. 00:56:22
The point that. 00:56:25
That you brought up. 00:56:27
About uh. 00:56:29
Founding documents and governing documents. 00:56:30
So let me share this here. 00:56:34
See if I got a presentation mode. 00:56:36
OK, so. 00:56:45
Kind of looking at. 00:56:47
The impact? 00:56:49
Of the project area overtime over those last 14 years. 00:56:50
If you look at the original project. 00:56:54
Plan there are. 00:56:56
Eight different goals. 00:56:57
And they fit into these six buckets, if you think about them as just kind of topics. 00:56:59
You have environmental remediation. 00:57:04
Public infrastructure. 00:57:06
Housing and mixed-use development. 00:57:07
Economic development. 00:57:09
Tax base and transportation. 00:57:11
So remediation and elimination of blight. So in the project plan, it says. 00:57:13
To eliminate the blight within the project area through environmental remediation and by removing existing buildings and 00:57:17
structures. 00:57:20
So if you look at. 00:57:23
The use of agency funds this is. 00:57:24
So again, the use of agency funds. This is the purpose of. 00:57:27
How you should use your funds? This is from your project area plan. 00:57:30
Will allow the remediation of sites where the cost of remediation would otherwise be cost prohibitive. So the whole reason for tax 00:57:34
increment financing. 00:57:38
Is because. 00:57:41
No ones going to clean up that mess. 00:57:42
And it's so prohibitive it'll just never get developed. And if it never gets developed, it never generates. 00:57:45
Any economic impact, it doesn't generate tax. 00:57:51
Revenues. 00:57:54
ETC. So you've got over 2000 acres. 00:57:55
The DEQ approved. 00:57:58
All the remediation milestones. 00:58:00
The camera is a big piece of that. 00:58:02
But I mean, so far it's on track. A lot of what's left is just. 00:58:06
Moving Material. 00:58:10
So if you look at a map. 00:58:13
From 2009 versus. 00:58:14
Now in 2025. 00:58:17
You can kind of see how far it's come and you can see kind of the nature of the site. 00:58:19
Umm, if you look in the. 00:58:24
The dirt area. 00:58:27
Kind of in the top of the map. 00:58:29
The top left corner of that dirt area just east of. 00:58:30
The railroad. 00:58:35
Corridor. That's the camo. 00:58:37
And so you can see it didn't exist in 2009. 00:58:40
What that is, is they consolidated materials. 00:58:43
Into one pile. 00:58:46
They dug a hole. 00:58:48
And they lined the hole with a special liner. 00:58:49
They put a bunch of material in the hole. 00:58:52
And then they covered it with the liner. 00:58:55
And consolidated it and contained it. 00:58:57
That's what the Camus is. 00:59:01
And then all the leftover material. 00:59:03
Around is. 00:59:06
Largely just being. 00:59:07
Excavated and removed. There's a filtering process, there's kind of a sifting and sorting that takes place. 00:59:08
But you can see the development of the various neighborhoods since 2009. 00:59:14
And the development of different, you know, streets and roads and things like that in the site it's. 00:59:19
And it's pretty dramatic when you think about how much has happened in a short amount of time given. 00:59:25
What it looked like and what was on the side of that. 00:59:30
Time. 00:59:32
Public infrastructure investments and other. 00:59:35
Theme in the project plan the construction and installation of necessary public infrastructure improvements, including sewer, 00:59:38
water, telecom and other utility infrastructure. 00:59:42
So in that project area, none of that existed. 00:59:46
And now as you've seen. 00:59:50
The development of housing and commercial. 00:59:52
Properties. 00:59:55
You've seen some, you know, major transportation projects with Vineyard Connectors Center St. Overpass. 00:59:56
There's a rail realignment program. 01:00:02
Project going on. There's the 1600 N extension. There's been. 01:00:04
Improvements in additions to. 01:00:08
The sewer system, storm water systems, etc. 01:00:10
Housing development and mixed-use is another piece of the plan. 01:00:16
The plan says to provide much needed remediation, public infrastructure and redevelopment incentives for over 2000 acres of 01:00:21
blighted, contaminated industrial land into a vibrant high density. 01:00:26
Mixed-use retail, office, residential, or industrial neighborhood. 01:00:30
So there was a lot of ideas about how the area could be. 01:00:34
Populated with diverse types of housing with mixed-use with commercial, with employment, office, retail. 01:00:39
And other kinds of developments and so far. 01:00:46
You've got like 20 different neighborhoods depending on how you name them and designate them. 01:00:49
And there's a mix of zoning and mix of. 01:00:53
Housing types. 01:00:57
Over 3800 residential units have been completed or. 01:00:58
Or permitted. 01:01:02
Another point in the plan was job creation and economic development. 01:01:05
The idea of creating 20,000 new jobs and attracting national tenants. 01:01:09
And other job creators. 01:01:13
With regional significance. 01:01:15
Building a Mountain West. 01:01:16
So far you've got. 01:01:19
Some commercial developments like Megaplex and Topgolf and other retailers. 01:01:21
You've got the announcement of. 01:01:27
You know the new grocery store that will come online at the end of this year? 01:01:29
You've got the Huntsman Cancer Institute, which is. 01:01:33
Beginning the process. 01:01:36
Build a facility there is going to. 01:01:38
Employ a whole lot of people. 01:01:40
And, umm. 01:01:42
So there's just been a significant. 01:01:43
I think impact in terms of economic development. 01:01:46
Tax based expansion was another purpose in the original plan to increase the tax base of the town as well as its retail 01:01:51
commercial. 01:01:54
Base we've got some charts which you've seen before that all. 01:01:57
Review to share that with you if you look at the assessed value of the land from a market perspective back in 2011. 01:02:01
When tax increment financing first began. 01:02:09
The site was. 01:02:13
Valued at about 244 million. 01:02:14
The base value is 120. That's based on a 2000. 01:02:17
5 or 2006 year. 01:02:21
Kind of an index here. 01:02:24
They do a look back when you start. 01:02:26
So it started in 2009. They look back a certain number of years. 01:02:28
Now you're at. 01:02:33
Over 1.7 billion in terms of assessed values at the 700% growth. 01:02:34
In terms of your tax base? 01:02:40
And in terms of the value of. 01:02:42
Of the of the area. 01:02:45
That's, you know, all housing types and all. 01:02:47
All development types. 01:02:50
The tax increment. 01:02:52
You know, it's it was over 65 million. 01:02:54
That I just gave you the total a few minutes ago, which is 93 that's. 01:02:56
An updated figure. 01:03:00
And of course there's. 01:03:02
Benefits to the taxing entities because. 01:03:03
Alpine School District, Utah County. 01:03:05
That the city of Vineyard, the water district, they all still receive 100% of the tax revenue. 01:03:08
On 25% of the value of the land. 01:03:13
And so if you look at the actual impact of that, they they get quite a bit of revenue. 01:03:16
Over and above if it wasn't developed at all, and I think that's. 01:03:21
That's the reason they chose to participate. 01:03:25
And so we'll go over some charts you all have seen before, but it might be helpful. 01:03:27
If you look at taxable values overtime. 01:03:31
These three. 01:03:36
Levels to this. 01:03:39
Layered chart. 01:03:40
Show the base value so. 01:03:42
Remember the base value tax entities get 100% of the tax revenue on the base value. That's from the base year. 01:03:45
Plus they get 25%. 01:03:53
Of anything above that the incremental value, so the red line shows. 01:03:56
The total. 01:04:01
Value uh. 01:04:02
That would be taxable for. 01:04:03
The tax entities, that's their 25% share, so to speak. 01:04:06
So if you want to look at it. 01:04:10
Visually. Umm. 01:04:12
This is the way to look at it. 01:04:14
Where it's compared kind of apples to apples. 01:04:15
So the tax increment, finance tax share. 01:04:18
This is. This is specifically. The actual quantity in the chart is. 01:04:22
Taxable. 01:04:26
Values so you see the increase in value overtime. 01:04:27
This is really a credit to the success of. 01:04:32
The RDA and of the use of tax increment financing. 01:04:35
And if you look at the entities, they're receiving something on the order of. 01:04:38
Three times more. 01:04:42
Then the base just in their 25% share. 01:04:44
And so the economics of. 01:04:48
Really worked out. 01:04:50
In some ways better than expected. 01:04:52
And here is an example of better than expected the original forecast. 01:04:56
For the values overtime is the red line. 01:05:01
So, uh. 01:05:04
But the actual values have. 01:05:06
Exceeded the original forecast. 01:05:08
So it's worked out. 01:05:11
Better, uh. 01:05:12
Then I think the taxing entities originally. 01:05:13
Anticipated. 01:05:16
Which is, which is a good. 01:05:18
Basically for everybody. 01:05:20
This is the idea. 01:05:25
Tax base expansion. 01:05:27
From a tax value per acre. 01:05:29
Perspective. So like an apples to apples comparison. 01:05:31
You can't, you know, you can't compare a 100 acre site to a 200 acre site. You gotta go. 01:05:35
Acre for acre. 01:05:41
And so I looked at a couple different. 01:05:42
Comparisons to the RDA area, the Geneva area. 01:05:45
And so. 01:05:50
One idea would be, well, what's the market value per acre of completely undeveloped? 01:05:51
Land. What's the market value per acre? 01:05:57
Of uh. 01:06:02
Something that let's say is undeveloped, but that's in Greenbelt. 01:06:02
What's the value per acre of something not in the Geneva area? 01:06:06
But that's residential. 01:06:10
And then what's the actual value of the Geneva area, which is a blend of residential and commercial? 01:06:12
And so the yellow line shows. 01:06:17
Phases 3 and 4. 01:06:22
And the tax value per acre? 01:06:24
Since it was triggered. 01:06:26
And you can see. 01:06:29
The increase in value actually exceeds. 01:06:31
The increase of. 01:06:34
A residential unit in the in the homestead. 01:06:36
Area which is not. 01:06:39
Participating in tax increment financing. It's not in the RDA zone. 01:06:41
And so you can see that actually what's happening in the Geneva area. 01:06:45
Is the values outpacing? 01:06:49
Even other areas in the city that are not. 01:06:51
Part of the RDA. 01:06:54
So in many ways. 01:06:56
That's a direct. 01:06:58
Point to the tax base expansion. 01:07:00
Like Vineyard has. 01:07:02
Accomplished exactly. 01:07:04
What it was hoping is increasing its tax base. 01:07:05
By redeveloping. 01:07:08
The area. 01:07:10
And then what's interesting about the Green Line? 01:07:11
So there's a nearby parcel. 01:07:14
Of about 60 acres of undeveloped land in American Fork. 01:07:17
It's owned by investors. 01:07:20
So they pay. 01:07:22
You know, there's, there's no RDA, there's no tax increment financing. 01:07:25
And it's in the middle of both. 01:07:29
Housing developments and commercial developments. 01:07:31
And it looks like. 01:07:34
Just a prime area to develop, but it hasn't been developed for several years. 01:07:35
Well, as a result. 01:07:40
Smartly, the owners have put it into Greenbelt. 01:07:42
Meaning they lease it essentially to a farmer or something so that they don't have to pay the full market. 01:07:46
Taxes on it. 01:07:51
And if you look overtime. 01:07:53
At the change in value. 01:07:54
That's the green line, so. 01:07:57
What this is? 01:07:59
Showing is that if you just look at the value of land. 01:08:00
And you say, well, what's the market doing? 01:08:05
Well, the market is already appreciating, so isn't land going to go up? 01:08:07
Well, yeah, but the Geneva area has outpaced the market. 01:08:11
OK, well what if we did nothing on the Geneva site? 01:08:14
Well likely you'd have investors buy it and put it into Greenbelt because they don't want to pay the full taxes. 01:08:17
On a parcel of land that for some reason. 01:08:23
They don't feel they can actually use for some development. 01:08:25
And that's what's going on with this. 01:08:28
Parcel in American Fork so they get approved to put the land into Greenbelt. 01:08:30
Waiting until. 01:08:35
They choose to develop it. 01:08:37
And so this is the tax revenue. 01:08:38
You know, you can think about this chart as the type of tax revenue American Fork is getting from that parcel. 01:08:41
On a per acre basis versus the tax revenue? 01:08:46
Vineyard would be getting. 01:08:49
From the developed parcels. 01:08:51
And when it comes to the Geneva parcels? 01:08:52
They far exceed the residential parcels. So in other words. 01:08:54
This redevelopment. 01:08:58
Is an economic engine for your city. 01:08:59
This redevelopment. 01:09:02
Is increasing. 01:09:03
Was decreasing in some ways. 01:09:05
The tax burden of residential properties. 01:09:07
Because of the mixed-use nature. 01:09:11
Not to mention the sales tax, which is. 01:09:13
The next chart. 01:09:15
So if you look at Vineyard's general fund revenue overtime. 01:09:16
You can see the red section is sales tax. 01:09:19
And notice how sales tax has increased. 01:09:23
Consistently since about 2015. 01:09:26
From a very insignificant share of your overall budget. 01:09:28
To about a third of your budget. 01:09:32
Which is actually really healthy, I think a good, healthy city. 01:09:35
You want at least a third of your budget in sales tax. 01:09:38
That's a good diverse revenue. There are bedroom communities that very few retailers. 01:09:42
And they have to rely solely on property taxes. 01:09:46
But where you have mixed-use development and you have retailers in the city. 01:09:49
And those retailers have come online and and. 01:09:53
Been successful. 01:09:55
It's reduced the. 01:09:56
The uh. 01:09:58
The burden, if you will, of your of your property tax revenue. 01:09:59
On property owners through this more diverse. 01:10:02
Type of revenue and again it's. 01:10:06
It's an example of tax base expansion as envisioned under the plan. 01:10:08
One of the last themes in the Project area plan is transportation and mobility and infrastructure. 01:10:14
The plan says make possible alternative transportation hubs to minimize congestion, improve air quality. 01:10:21
There's a lot there about. 01:10:26
Public infrastructure when it comes to transportation. 01:10:28
And a lot is still under development, of course. There's the transit corridor, there's the commuter rail. 01:10:30
There's, you know, the future. 01:10:36
Potential. 01:10:38
UTA routes and things like that, and of course all of the roads that you've done so far. 01:10:39
So those are just kind of. 01:10:47
A few highlights of what I think are. 01:10:48
You as an RDA accomplishing your project area plan. 01:10:51
You know, making, I think, solid progress towards the original vision of that plan. 01:10:55
Did you? My attachments aren't opening up in my emails. 01:11:00
Could you send this to us if you haven't already? Yeah. And it's it's linked online with the agenda. 01:11:04
As well so. 01:11:09
Great. 01:11:11
Are there any questions? 01:11:14
This is a public hearing from the Council. 01:11:17
I'm good, Brett. 01:11:22
I would I would just say like I always do, I hope. 01:11:28
Heartily disagree with the financial synopsis and I wish that we could have a second opinion. 01:11:31
That would come in. 01:11:38
There are many hundreds of acres within Geneva's field that were not blighted with chemical. 01:11:39
Or anything like that. 01:11:45
That could have just been developed. 01:11:47
Then we gave a lot of money. 01:11:49
To a developer. 01:11:51
When When we didn't. 01:11:54
Need to so I just so we we are actual but I know this body. 01:11:56
I keep pushing to have a second opinion come and show different numbers. 01:12:00
They're very compelling. So when you say we, are you talking about? 01:12:05
Like 2011. 01:12:08
I think one of your ancestors was on the City Council then. So who are we talking about when you say we? 01:12:11
There's been a lot of. 01:12:17
A lot of people. 01:12:18
That have been elected. 01:12:19
That are trying to understand this I like Josh's. 01:12:20
Description what he said. 01:12:24
Where Jack of all trades and master of none. 01:12:26
So the goal here is. 01:12:29
Is to get. 01:12:31
Like I said to result. 01:12:32
So write down your frustrations and let's. 01:12:34
Let's get them all out. 01:12:38
OK. Is there anything else? 01:12:41
You've got to. 01:12:43
Approve your. 01:12:45
Meeting minutes for your consent item. 01:12:46
OK. I don't think we did that. So I need a motion to approve the. 01:12:49
Consent items. 01:12:54
3.1 meeting minutes. 01:12:55
For the RDA. 01:12:57
So moved. 01:12:59
Is that it all in favour? 01:13:02
Sorry, sorry. 01:13:04
Second. OK, all in favor no. 01:13:06
Hi. Hi. 01:13:09
OK. 01:13:11
Work session 4.1. 01:13:12
Fiscal year 26 budget discussion. 01:13:14
So, similar to the earlier conversation in the Council, you've got your final budget adoption later this month. 01:13:18
So if there's anything that you. 01:13:26
I want to bring up about your FY20 6 budget. 01:13:28
In kind of a work session mode you can. 01:13:31
OK, so everybody go over it. 01:13:33
And if you have a question. 01:13:35
Send them to Josh. 01:13:36
Any business items? 01:13:39
No, OK. 01:13:42
I think that's it. Is that it? 01:13:49
OK, Our DA meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. 01:13:52