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  • INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE Commissioner Jenkins led the meeting in the Pledge of Allegiance.                    OPEN SESSION – No comments were made.
  • MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVAL3.1    May,22MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAY,22; MINUTES AS RECORDED. COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: ACTING CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, AND COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 
  • BUSINESS ITEMS1    Appointment of a New Chair Due to Chair Knighton moving out of the city, he resigned his position as Chair of the Planning Commission. Vice-Chair Brady assumed the position as Chair following the Planning Commission Bylaws.
  • MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO NOMINATE COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL AS THE NEW VICE-CHAIR. COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: ACTING CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, AND COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                     WORKSESSION1    Geneva Nitrogen General Plan Land Use Map and Zoning Map Amendment Applications Work Session
  • Nikolai Lazerev with the Boyer Company presented their preliminary plan for the Geneva Nitrogen site.                       TRAINING SESSION1    Free Webinar: Confessions of a Traffic Engineer
  • The Planning Commission watched the Free Webinar: Confessions of a Traffic Engineer produced by Strong Towns. A brief discussion regarding the webinar was had.                    COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
  • Mr. Brim gave an update for the upcoming Planning Commission meeting schedule.                    ADJOURNMENT Chair Brady adjourned the meeting.   Certified Correct On: June,22 CERTIFIED BY:/s/CacheHancey Cache Hancey, PlanningTechnician
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Transcript

Event transcript
The Planning Commission meeting we'll have is a call to order and we'll have a Pledge of Allegiance by Anthony Jenkins. 00:00:02
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:14
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:21
Thanks, Anthony. 00:00:30
All right. Moving into an open session, are there any public comments? 00:00:31
If not, then we'll move right into the minutes for review and approval. Do I have a motion for the 18th minutes? 00:00:37
Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve those as written. I have a second. 00:00:45
All in favor, aye. 00:00:50
Alright, moving into a work session. Are they coming or? 00:00:53
So we have a Nikolaya with the Boyer company is on Zoom and so. 00:00:57
Where do we have the election officers for? Technically, first, yeah, to do the business item. Yeah, we'll move right into that 00:01:04
then. So business item, appointment of a new chair for this, it can only be sitting members correctly correct much of your latte 00:01:12
and she'll be out of the line. But she she can vote since she's on sitting tonight. 00:01:20
So just just to clarify something real quick, the the Planning Commission bylaws do state that as the vice chair. 00:01:29
You can automatically be appointed as the Chair without a vote if you want to take on the Chair responsibilities. If you do not, 00:01:37
though, then we would go through a vote to replace the Chair. 00:01:43
And if you if you do with memory, we would vote for advice chair OK, so that it's up to you. 00:01:50
I'm fine with whatever somebody wants to be. Chair. They can be chair. I have an open schedule, so I can be. Are you willing to? 00:01:56
Yeah, I'm willing to. So you would be the chair until the end of Jeff's current. 00:02:02
On the end of the year? Yeah, The end of the year, I think I'm done. I think that's the end of my term. Is that your second term? 00:02:08
That's your first term. Second. Is it really? I think so. Yeah, eight years. 00:02:13
No, no, I think it's been because I've been. I've been here six years and you, you you came on, I think 6 months after. Yeah. OK. 00:02:21
I didn't know. I thought it was three years and three years. I think it's four and four. We can look into it. 00:02:28
Yeah, we should look into it. OK. 00:02:37
But I do recommend that Rice become the chair. He's currently the vice chair, is that right? And then I would propose that he 00:02:38
assumed the role of chair. Yeah, so that that doesn't need a vote then. Because automatically, if he says yes, then he's the 00:02:44
chair. And then you would nominate a vice chair. 00:02:50
All right. So are you willing? Yeah, I'm willing to do it. OK, then let's call that one done. So for vice chair. 00:02:58
Do you have a nomination or? 00:03:08
Anthony, what's your status in life? 00:03:11
I know you've been. I'd like, I'd like to be home. I can probably make it to at least one meeting per month. I usually have about 00:03:14
two trips a month, and inevitably one. Like I'm gone on the 15th on the next one and be gone for three Wednesdays in July. 00:03:25
And a couple in August, so I'm gonna just kind of hit miss, but I should always be able to make at least one. But because of that, 00:03:36
if someone's more available, I would probably recommend nominating them for Feliz, Tim and Chris. 00:03:43
One of you interested? Are your schedules open and willingness? I mean, I'll be at every meeting. 00:03:51
I don't know how my wife would feel about taking on anything so another yeah is there extra time commitment there is a teeny bit 00:03:59
so when the chair so if price is unable to do the monthly update to to the City Council it's usually right at the beginning of the 00:04:06
meeting and it's just you update them on projects you worked on it's it's a like a 3060 second update so it would be just backing 00:04:14
up Bryce if. 00:04:21
How active are you going to be? 00:04:29
Pretty active. I mean I have some skate stuff going on, but most of it doesn't correspond with at least the Planning Commission 00:04:31
stuff And if for some reason if either you can do it, planning staff is happy to do it too. So I'm fine. So I'll be at every 00:04:38
meeting if you're if you're available. I think it's good that all of us get opportunities to go into. So I'll nominate Chris as as 00:04:46
the Vice chair and I would second that nomination. All in favor, aye. All right, great. Congratulations guys. Goes quickly. 00:04:54
All right, we'll move on to the work session. 00:05:05
Geneva Nitrogen General Planned Land Use Map and Zoning Map Amendment Applications work session. So this is just a work session. 00:05:07
There aren't any. 00:05:11
Nothing is being decided on. It's just we're kind of going through this and. 00:05:15
So um. 00:05:21
Nikolai, can you? 00:05:22
Can you just say higher introduce yourself so we can see if you can hear us swing here? I'm having some issues with audio right 00:05:25
now. OK, figure out. 00:05:29
Can you hear? 00:05:45
I I cannot. I can't hear you. 00:05:48
Let me try. 00:05:53
Yeah, I just disconnect the audio from here from here. 00:05:59
But there were some bad echo. 00:06:04
All right, what if we turn off our mics while he talks with that help? 00:06:08
Yeah, just give us a minute. 00:06:18
So what while we're doing that, I'll give you just kind of a. 00:06:30
Yeah, we returned, Nicolai. We're gonna do a quick staff intro and then we'll turn the time over to you. 00:06:34
Are you able to hear me? This is Morgan. 00:06:40
Yeah, I can't. I can't do that here and. 00:06:44
Yeah. So, Nicola, I'm going to do a quick staff intro and then we'll turn that time to you. 00:06:51
Wrestler aware of the Nitrogen Geneva property off of Geneva Rd. just South of 1600 N rural prime location, the city's been 00:06:57
looking at the wrong time. The city is removing the spur line as most of you are aware of, utilizing RDA resources and some some 00:07:06
grant funds. Just a kind of a combined effort between Utah, the city and. 00:07:15
So that's up to that. Um. 00:07:26
And so this is a really important piece, the city, the city did initiate a a rezoning on the property. 00:08:03
And we have as you know we continued that to our July 6th Planning Commission meeting for a public hearing to provide us the 00:08:10
opportunity to work with Nikolai. He's been great to work with the boy company to see if we can see more retail and office and 00:08:18
commercial type uses. That was very clear from the the City Council back when the RDA application was approved was to see less 00:08:25
industrial type uses. 00:08:33
And and more of like office you know potentially medical you know things that provide services to to our residents and and retail 00:08:40
would be important too. And so Nikolai has prepared some concert plans and and he'll he'll present this to you. So just really 00:08:48
correct before he does that just to kind of explain the property right now is zoned I-1. This is the the kind of the remnant 00:08:55
parcel of kind of that arcade zoning code that I want essentially allows for. 00:09:02
Really interesting heavy industrial down to to light manufacturing. 00:09:10
And so it's a it's a very category that doesn't provide a lot of zoning control And so that's why in during the RDA application 00:09:14
the the city conditioned support from the RDA on a rezoning away from the I-1. And so our hope is that this conversation tonight 00:09:21
helps to inform that that zoom. 00:09:27
That that zoning application and and how how the property gets zoned for for those future uses, the property. This was one when we 00:09:35
did the general plan update for some reason. 00:09:40
The land use map does not reflect a land use category, so it's kind of weird. You look at the land use map and there's a a bite 00:09:46
out of it. It's just undesignated right now. So regardless of what happens, most likely we will redesignate that as commerce. 00:09:55
The whole area is, is is designated right now is a commerce center with UVU, the potential for innovation and the commerce is this 00:10:06
a general land, land use category that allows for really anything that would be supportive of like a large employment center. So 00:10:12
retail would definitely fall into that as a supportive service. 00:10:18
Office and flex office. So anyway that's the that's kind of our hope is to provide some direction from you on the concepts that 00:10:24
Nikolai's put together. So without any further ado Nicholai, if you want to introduce yourself and kind of your your part of the 00:10:31
of this project and where you fit in and then if you yeah and then show your concept plans and take a look and you you should have 00:10:37
the ability to share your screen. 00:10:44
Awesome. OK, that would be helpful. 00:10:51
Nikolai, can you explain kind of the flex office because I I think there there it's a little bit more of a I guess a complex type 00:18:30
building than than what like just a retail would be because you kind of were explaining to me that's similar to some of the 00:18:37
buildings 1750 N that we have. How the how there's kind of like your office or potential for retail at the fun end and then like 00:18:44
warehousing and manufacturing or light industrial in the back. I want to kind of explain maybe how, how they would be programmed. 00:18:51
Absolutely, absolutely. 00:18:59
Yeah, let's look. 00:22:34
So another question you may have when you say, hey, why are? 00:22:36
Nikolai, can you explain kind of the layout of that building? I mean I think what you're saying we all agree with it be great to 00:24:02
get one really large great company there, but it's it shows the potential for 20 separate tenant spaces is that it will be built 00:24:10
so that if you if some reason you don't land a large Fortune 500 company that you you would then fill it with smaller companies. 00:24:19
We would. We're going to, we need to kind of the stage planning and dividing the building. 00:24:28
It's kind of an iterative process where we already have some preliminary interest in this space. It is probably going to be 00:24:37
approved and we're going to be able to give them a timeline. We have some familiar interest. 00:24:42
If the alternative is a function of how much earlier nutrients will have on the premise and planning out that space and then 00:24:50
dividing it from there, our intent is that we're probably not going to do anything lower than about. 00:24:56
25 to 30,000 square foot users and so we anticipate happening at least. 00:25:03
One or two tenants that could take upwards of 75 to 125,000 in the event that it really, you know, we really need to demise it 00:25:12
into smaller spaces as shown kind of given the hash mark and you can it would not be our preference. 00:25:21
Umm. 00:25:32
Today I spent some time. Yeah. Are you where are you located physically? 00:25:38
So, so actually believe it or not, I'm located in Southern California. I I still live here with my family, but I spend most of the 00:25:47
months in India. OK. So I was going to ask you if you're familiar with the North Provo River Woods area. 00:25:55
OK. 00:26:04
All right. So today I spent a couple of hours down in that business section where they have three story high office buildings and 00:26:07
they have multiple tenants in them. And and every time I'm there, I'm just really impressed with how nice that looks. These are 00:26:13
fairly large office buildings. I don't know their square footage, but for me and and I've, I've heard what you said, I know what 00:26:20
your preference is. 00:26:27
But for me it seems like this would be a wonderful place to recreate something like that for for Vineyard. 00:26:34
They're true large trees, kind of winding around roads into the different office buildings. They're all professional buildings. 00:26:44
And it just gives you such a warm feeling down there. At least that's been my impression of each time I've gone down there for 00:26:53
whatever reason. And so anyway, I just wanted to throw that out. I didn't know if you were familiar with that part of N Pearl or 00:27:00
not or and and you know that obviously they're not. I mean there are a couple of, there were a couple of large tenants there like 00:27:08
Ancestry was there for many, many years. They've since moved away, but there are still some large tenants down there and. 00:27:15
Anyway, it's just wanted to throw that out as thinking. I know the others up here know the area that I'm talking about, but. 00:27:24
Yeah. 00:27:32
So I have a couple of questions for you and a little bit for staff too. You mentioned getting an easement from Union Pacific, but 00:29:37
that leads to the question of how soon are we going to see these train tracks moved where we where they wouldn't need to see need 00:29:43
to get an easement? 00:29:49
University Engineer So I've stated the transmitter very, very, very slowly. 00:29:56
I think it's. 00:30:02
Now, so in reality, the. 00:30:05
Forecasted timeline for for all of you about three or five years. So within EPR and Pacific Railroad, there's certain there's a 00:30:11
lot of, there's quite a bit of reality. 00:30:19
Items that we would go through fortunately enough that Union Pacific is on board. 00:30:28
Specifically on removing the Rowsper, we're currently working with them in terms of relying that well spoke to the North, which is 00:30:33
actually more favorable for the, excuse me, because it's reducing through accurate crossings and we're having seven aggregate 00:30:44
crossings and adding, adding and having two instead. So there's very many more impact to their operations. 00:30:54
In terms of moving forward, there's other items of you know with land owners and what Rd. alignments that we're working through. 00:31:05
So I would expect that we would have it finalized design team Union Pacific. 00:31:11
By the early next calendar year. 00:31:19
Are there other things but we're also working with? 00:31:21
Their office make sure that you know we would we have the plan of action we're moving down. So in realistic with the timelines of 00:31:26
you know when you have two city agents, 2 government agencies, the city. 00:31:34
U dot on the federal government as well. So it's really it's really agencies plus the Union Pacific in the next. So that's why you 00:31:43
know we just through through the bureaucracies and won the highest bureaucracy. 00:31:50
You can see how fast that transgender move right there. So but yeah, we expected construction would start within three years and 00:31:57
then be completed be completed probably two years after that within the intent of having the specific rail crossings removed as 00:32:06
early as possible. And I know what Mayor former has a very intense plan of action in terms of Yankee crossings removed. 00:32:15
OK. So with that you have the one easement that you're hoping to get from up. How would how would this plan change if first of 00:32:25
all, what would your timeline be with this plan? And then second, how would your plan change if you suddenly wouldn't have the 00:32:32
tracks there? If you have access to the property, would it change much? What are your thoughts on that? 00:32:40
It's actually one of the first things that we really go into feasibility around the plan. 00:32:50
So. 00:32:57
In terms of timeline for the plan as presented the you know our encampment timeline and you know it's it's it's our culture that 00:32:58
we could work you know hand in hand with the city within a reasonable time frame on the planet that that would be something that 00:33:05
everyone would be happy with and excited about. But that timeline I think you know it depends, it could be anywhere from you know 00:33:12
six months, nine months, a year, but. 00:33:19
As we're going through the entire process and working with you, we we also would start designing our plans. 00:33:28
And the reality is that this type of product site, the plans are actually you can get it done fairly quickly probably within about 00:33:35
four to six months and then construction of timeline. So let's say let's say it's six months to entitle and you know 59 months, we 00:33:42
start plans probably earlier than that. So All in all, it will take about a year, let's call it a year and be able to get a shovel 00:33:50
in this round, so 50 years to get a shoveling around. 00:33:57
We can still follow this in approximately 14 months. 00:34:05
So you know, right around. 00:34:10
OK. 00:34:16
And just to wrap up again in regards to design, the same speaking, just. 00:34:20
Is actually favorable in terms of some. 00:34:32
In order to allow food developments to occur. So it's not 100% opposed to that, but in terms of again, do we just want to make 00:34:36
sure that when it's intentable and of course with the support of the city, I believe. 00:34:43
OK. And then I assume they already have an at grade crossing on this property, right? 00:34:51
Yes, right here. 00:34:57
So this and the accurate crossing is. Let me see if I'll. 00:34:59
Show you a little bit better and just really glad. Most likely the site plan is not showing other entrances off Geneva, but like 00:35:06
there would be more entrances added than what shown around. 00:35:12
So this this is the only entrance and the problem that the it's not it's just not a great entrance. It's not it's not a cheer 00:35:21
development standpoint. It's not it's not too responsible and that set the needs of of the human nitrogen. 00:35:29
Hopefully you know. 00:35:40
Yeah. 00:35:45
OK. 00:35:47
The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a lot of second phase here, you know especially from the retail component and the 00:35:51
office component. We want to make sure that those are well executed, those are those are proper tenants in this environment that's 00:35:58
been line up and we really want to have a great value proposition to see the tenant and they can see the vision of what's 00:36:05
happening in and around vineyards. 00:36:12
And so a huge part of that for them is access and party. They're they're laser focused on access frontage and party. And so from a 00:36:21
baby perspective, we would want to make sure that everything is kind of worked through from either some type of even agreement or 00:36:29
potentially some actors obviously need that potentially we can work through that. So for instance directly on how is the plan 00:36:38
change, we don't think that anything would change to reflect office because we do not want to be challenged outdoors or Visa. 00:36:47
I hope that. I think, I think everyone is agreeing on that. We don't want doctors to show off any of them, yeah. 00:36:57
Yes, we regret that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 00:37:05
So that keeps the building organization. 00:37:10
West and and and so from there what we would see is it would probably be it would be rethinking this N block right here and 00:37:14
working with the landowner directly north so that we can make sure that the right access is the right access points off of Geneva. 00:37:23
For being activated this morning. 00:37:33
That that's I think what would change the most and to point out to you what's important about that is if you do have a lot of 00:37:36
office and stuff, it allows direct access to to a signalized intersection and then to the freeway. And so that's that's why it's 00:37:41
it's fairly important, yeah. 00:37:46
For that mill Rd. 00:37:55
Is it Mill Road off of the Interchange Road or is Mill Rd. going to be also connected all the way up to 1600 N? Yeah, exactly. It 00:37:57
connects them to what? What's the north-south Road it connects them to? Is that 400? 00:38:03
What is that? 00:38:11
Yeah. But what Rd. is the time into that, that that that connects into 1600 N, yeah. 00:38:17
Jim came out of this but it connects in the world that that you turn right in that take to get up to 1750. So basically all that 00:38:25
whole corridor would be Mill Rd. So we're not going to have a situation where we have tons of trucks driving down 800 N with our 00:38:33
residential traffic. It would be the intent of 1600 N and then turn on the middle to go exactly yeah we're and that's and if they 00:38:40
keep the the docks on you know facing West then that that makes that more and more likely. I mean inevitably you'll get some. 00:38:48
That are in the north and so if we keep the bulk of them on the road you know and then going going to to the north and then to 00:38:56
1600 to the signalized intersection, I think that's WR preference. 00:39:02
Oh yeah, so railroad will connect all the way to 4400. E is now between 1750 and 1600 dollars. 00:39:09
So on the backside on the dock areas, Nikolai, are there ways to hide the docks to shield them so they're not as visible from Mill 00:39:17
Rd. 00:39:22
So one thing we can consider from the landscape event is that they are fairly, they're fairly involved but we have seen Grace in 00:39:28
some type of we can put heading and you can see kind of the green space that we have along here. We can consider just making sure 00:39:35
that we have some that honestly you know. 00:39:43
Well, I'm trying to change that a lot of this all the land, the West conjecture zone E1, I think there's I think so, but that 00:39:51
there is going to be a lot of flex office that's currently planned And so you know we're open to different, we're open to 00:40:00
different considerations from the city on on heavy if if there's a if there's a visibility concern on popularity. 00:40:10
So I I would sounds like the I'm seeing some nods so I would definitely plan on some good landscaping screening and Morgan has it 00:40:22
anticipated that the zoning request will be for an existing zone or a new one created? 00:40:29
Specifically for this area, it depends. I mean we could go with A an FOI for the the center and then the the South and N could be 00:40:36
zoned to RC, the regional commercial and then that that would accommodate basically everything else. Yeah. Because I think it's 00:40:44
important if as we look at a project like this and see some of the architecture features that we like or you know whatever it 00:40:51
might be that that's codified, You know you can never count, you'd like to. 00:40:59
Plan on somebody seeing the project through from start to finish, but I think wherever we can put that in the in the code 00:41:07
especially where it's a project that will set a precedent for everything around it. I think that would be important. That's why I 00:41:13
was wondering if it was already an existing code or if it's a new one then we can do that as well. And and talking with the the 00:41:20
current property owner, we we've talked about how to kind of accommodate it through through zoning and so we could use an existing 00:41:26
or existing category. 00:41:32
Or if we wanted something very specific to ensure that you got this development, it could be through a development agreement 00:41:39
development. That's kind of like the best way of of getting exactly what you want is you tie the plan to an actual development 00:41:44
agreement. 00:41:49
Yeah, I don't have any other questions. 00:41:59
Height wise, is there a reason? I mean this is one and two-story it looks like. Is there? Would we want to go higher? 00:42:06
Just throwing that out there. 00:42:15
That's because we we don't there aren't too many users for for three story space usually nothing about it's double line in the 00:42:18
warehouse so, so you have any more than 20 if you're a little bit higher than 20 feet clear just in the warehouse itself. 00:42:25
And then and then we would have kind of that two-story office on the front end. 00:42:34
We we haven't seen any major need anything more than that kind of stacked in the warehouse, but it is something that potentially 00:42:42
could be could be designed driven just based on the years that we would identify voice users and the stick in a in a double volume 00:42:47
range. 00:42:53
Yeah, and like normal office space is really struggling right now to get tenants. It seemed like the four just had a hard time 00:43:00
kicking off their area. So as far as like just what he said, like warehouse space, you don't really need more than two-story. 00:43:08
Do we know what's going South of here? 00:43:19
I guess one other question on Geneva Rd. when the spur lines taken out, is there a plan for pedestrian access? What improvements 00:44:41
would be there for the? 00:44:46
So when the spur line is taken out, is there a plan? Would we add sidewalks? Pedestrian. 00:44:54
I guess so, yeah. Let me score lines that are removed. Utah has a plan in order to run straighten out the area. That's kind of 00:45:03
like a little shape curve that's right by the megaplex and also. 00:45:10
Time realign the road and making a significant roadway improvements and probably improvements would include widening slash 00:45:19
potential enhancements along along Geneva Rd. So and then of course for Mill Rd. we're working over the market snow for one that 00:45:26
one developer in order to ensure that they have possession and has pedestrian improvements when it goes in. 00:45:34
As well as with Anderson Geneva when they extend the total retreat to the South of 800 N to so. And then I'm working with U dot in 00:45:42
terms of the pedestrian enhancements along 800 N on East Coast to merchandise compliments for the city house. 00:45:52
Any other questions from anybody? 00:46:09
All right, I think it looks good. 00:46:12
Yeah. Anything else? No. So that the next step is Nikolai will meet kind of in a similar format with the City Council and 00:46:17
Nicholai, we do have some a few date changes with the City Council. So I'll, I'll send those over to you and because I. 00:46:26
It's not. It's not next week, right? 00:46:35
Yeah, 15th and the 29th. The 15th is a specific joint session with the Planning Commission to review the downtown and get an 00:46:39
update in our downtown. So it might be the 29th when you would have a work session. So I apologize for pushing that getting pushed 00:46:47
further out, but this has turned into kind of a crazy month for the City Council and Planning Commission. 00:46:55
But anyway, that's everything. We're appreciate your time, Nikolai. Yeah, thank you so much. 00:47:04
Project, we're committed to the project and we must be able to work if you feel we did something that everybody would be happy 00:47:12
with and like I said, you know we're ready to, we believe that there's good demand for this type of product that's that's there 00:47:17
currently. And so we're we're really ready to work with you all. 00:47:23
So we need to find an order as quickly as we can. Cool. Awesome. Thank you again. 00:47:31
Awesome. Thank you, speaker. 00:47:37
So that, so we'll purchase it and it would be the Boyer Company. 00:48:20
Owner once they buy it from Geneva or Geneva, Nitrogen OK. 00:48:25
Yeah, I just we're trying to get that clear. I wasn't sure who. 00:48:30
Who owned what and who was representing whom? 00:48:33
OK. That's great. 00:48:36
All right, moving on to 6.1. Training session. Webinar, Confessions of a Traffic Engineer. So for you guys, do you want this is an 00:48:39
hour long video? We can choose to split it up into two. We can choose to speed it up 1 1/2 times. We can. Do you have anything? 00:48:46
Can you speed it up twice? You can speed it up twice too. 1 1/2 times was really easy to understand. Twice could understand it if 00:48:53
you listen to stuff that's speed up. 00:49:00
OK, so we know it 1 1/2 times. 00:49:39
Yeah, you guys good with that. Yeah, and only half of the whole thing. Let's go to half talk about it and then like as you have 00:49:42
our discussion and then see if we want to continue, feel free to like interrupt me and tell me deposit when and just say no. This 00:49:49
is the engineer talking, we talk pretty fast. So and since you're we talked twice as fast so 1 1/2 * * 2 that's what 345567. 00:49:57
OK, you can skip. You can skip to the end and just accept what the engineers, right? 00:50:09
Actually, you can create a lot of value depending on how your roadway system, sidewalks and all that is oriented. So anyway, I 00:50:53
think you'll enjoy it. 00:50:57
Do you change the speed? 00:51:03
Yeah. 00:51:05
Did you change the speed already? 00:51:07
Yes. 00:51:09
46 years old. I've been working as profession for over 2 decades now. 00:51:21
We have all these additional things that we want to do, all these investments in transit, in biking and walking infrastructure, 00:52:04
things that we look out broadly and everyone or we just don't have enough money. It's obvious what we stand right We need more 00:52:09
money. 00:52:13
One thing that we seem to agree on, one thing that seems to be a consensus on almost a bipartisan way, is that our transportation 00:52:18
system is locally underfunded and needs dramatically more money so that we can do the things. 00:52:24
By the way. 00:52:32
They said we have an annual transportation funding gap of $94 billion a year and that is enough not to make a big splash 00:52:43
investment and do all kinds of things that come up to maintain what we have now. If we want to maintain the things that we have 00:52:49
today for the National Transportation infrastructure, this is not a cul-de-sac 100,000, the sidewalk up the street, this is 00:52:55
natural infrastructure interstates. 00:53:00
Really $94,000,000 more than. 00:53:07
I want to give you some perspective on this because the way we fund National Transportation infrastructure is through the gas tax. 00:53:10
And so if we look, the current gas tax is 18.4 cents again. 00:53:15
There's a proposition for quite a while that because the gas tax has not been changed in 90s, it has lost purchasing power into 00:53:20
inflation and we just adjusted it for inflation, you would not have this huge backlog that we're in right now. And so if you did 00:53:26
adjust it for inflation today would be around $0.30 a minute. 00:53:31
Just wouldn't be adjusted enough for inflation. But for GPU growth, there's this kind of theory that when you listen medication 00:53:38
with the economy, you know the economic growth. What if, what if these two are growing in hand? I mean, in that $0.30 an hour 00:53:44
range, so increasing about $0.12 a gallon would be adjusted for traffic growth. 00:53:49
Increase the amount of assets to pay for that shortfall. What would that mean? What would you need to raise in order to make up 00:53:56
for it? The funding short of the American Society? That would be almost 80%. 00:54:05
Understand that that's also a static analysis that assumes that. 00:54:16
As we raise the gas technique, rising less in dynamic market terms, we understand that the higher the present gas growth, domestic 00:54:19
drive way to raise taxes, paying on money for less to divide because of downward spiraling either way is never going to happen if 00:54:25
any reason, any particular kind of world we can imagine today. 00:54:31
What was the same book that criticized on his right? They said that for the next decade, the cost of action, if we don't do 00:54:38
anything, if we don't spend money, we spend maintaining our national infrastructure. That is what it costs families and businesses 00:54:42
a trillion dollars. 00:54:47
In order to avoid that loss. 00:54:52
The same exact report recommending the same 2020 billion a year or when you take the 20 billion * 10 two point $2 trillion for 00:54:54
that same period of time. This is where it is crazier. We had over a 30 year period said that GDP will grow slower than otherwise 00:55:00
would if we fail to make the proper investments in transportation. 00:55:06
That depression in GDP, Who was on the federal government failing to collect $540 billion otherwise would have collected the GDP 00:55:13
had grown. 00:55:17
That $540 billion loss of Treasury is recommended for the vaccine time. 00:55:23
I can't see their faces often when I present the stuff to crowds. This is why they're losing, because it's a credibility gap here. 00:55:32
That's a chunk. 00:55:35
No respect. 00:55:39
By the way, the Washington Post in New York Times and all those of that public department didn't bother to do very simple 3rd 00:56:18
grade Constitution. Let me give you a sense of why this kind of stuff happens if you're 91. In California, this was a project. 00:56:24
That one was congested. Highlights In the United States, there's a project be something you can add some extra lanes on the 00:56:30
Highway 91. Here's how it's reported in the long districts, from 8 miles an hour to 9.4 miles an hour. 00:56:36
But he could always like to make him better because it came with that. 00:56:43
But if you look at the map that the infrastructure over the ASP the transportation industry uses deductible, you can say 1.4 mile 00:56:49
an hour quicker times, you know 300,000 vehicles that drive through to every day times 365 days a year times $30.00 an hour. That 00:56:57
the typical Southern California makes other job equals billions and billions of dollars of save time. 00:57:04
This modest credit work entrance, this is a luminous application of economic math. Yeah, this is the kind of thing we do all the 00:57:14
time. That's about spending billions of dollars in doing projects that really create no benefit and no value for the world. 00:57:20
So. 00:57:27
And I think even a more important question than you need more money is what can we do if we're not going to get the money? 00:57:30
If you don't have the money, what do you mean? If we're not going to raise the gas tax for 97,000,000, we're going to continue to, 00:57:36
you know, kind of flow things along and things are OK. If every local government is going to have a massive backlog of Rd. 00:57:42
business that they're never going to get people, what do we do Then what then? 00:57:47
This is where I know what happens now. Today. There's a thing from a British physicist in World War 2 dealer working on some of 00:57:53
the atomic physics at the time, and he turned to the people in this group. He said, hey, you found out money, it's time to start 00:57:58
thinking. 00:58:04
We've run out of money. I'll certainly run out of, if not money doesn't seem guilty, pretty much money productivity. We've run out 00:58:10
of ways to invest our time and resources. That payback amount is time that we start thinking and that's what I want to help you 00:58:17
instead of doing thing. So let's breakdown our transportation system. 00:58:24
This is the hierarchical and if you go to any city that has a transportation plan in automatic. Today my transportation plan, we 00:58:31
broken down on a hierarchical look at the idea that we would start on very local streets. 00:58:37
People forwarding to some type of Collector St. and Collector St. will end up in a material St. Arterial Rd. that those arterial 00:58:44
event flow into major arterials. This is all, you know, very kind of common sense in terms of how they interview transportation, 00:58:51
profession, approach, the construction and the planning of assistance it very much resembles. 00:58:58
We can't run the water into the straight in the ditch. You got to change on that site that allows prison in. We recognize that 00:59:39
kind of the Death 5000 cup, all these small little additions, even though each one Infinity is not that great. It's healing the 00:59:45
fact that this type of funneling system is overwhelming when you get to those points. 00:59:51
Now look at the river system of a different type instead of 1 water. 00:59:58
Microsoft going to get a little bit of rain on the edge that it ends up What? Why is this a virus? Why? Why? Why does this somehow 01:00:04
baffle us to the degree that the river network doesn't? We are literally creating the flood if we wanted to create a 01:00:10
transportation system that generated the maximum amount of congestion possible. 01:00:17
This is. 01:00:24
This is exactly what it would be. You would take every single car that was possibly available and you would channel them all to 01:00:25
the same time every single day. This is why every city in North America has a rush out. It's a shared common experience that we 01:00:29
all have. 01:00:33
How do we create alternatives to getting a car inviting the same business? 01:01:18
What we do is we just. 01:01:22
Reality is not keeping up with that training. And so when you get is a situation where we we continually we systematically over 01:01:57
design and overkill now because we have less capacity here we have congestion problems. We multicasting understand how you 01:02:04
experience this as you. 01:02:10
Is that we're always excited. What we experience is just great. Operations on the other hand wouldn't be the user experience as 01:02:50
hundreds of times when you under design 1%, two percent, 5 percent, 10% Azure congestion. And so in terms of the user experience, 01:02:56
well let's look that around the feedback that the engineer, the politician, the people paying for the project experience is that 01:03:03
there's tremendous negative feedback to slightly under design, but there's no real social negative feedback from massively over 01:03:09
design. 01:03:15
When we look at the way we build our cities, if we were to impress load up at rush hour, what we would say is that part of our 01:03:22
system are actually. 01:03:27
We always take the drug more supply. Thanksgiving, Christmas, you're willing to fly out. If you're willing to fly at every time 01:04:02
you will make less. If you want to fly premium times, you will pay more. This is how the, you know, transit systems in the 01:04:08
Northeast and on the West operate. They will have, you know, peak pricing at peak times only in our auto systems. 01:04:15
Can we assist that at Thanksgiving, at Christmas, if everybody wants to be there, there's enough capacity for everyone seems love 01:04:21
that I can speak. 01:04:25
This idea of the flood and creating the flood has also aligned with another idea from the profession. 01:04:29
In ways that are produced, this idea is called. 01:04:35
If I just to say that it has been, especially in the early days, kind of a hackable process, we look today at all of these very 01:04:42
quick manuals we have to help. 01:04:47
About building this curve or that's the technical change ready for signs where we put payment likings and it all looks very like 01:04:54
thought out and efficient. But the reality is, is that it was a systematic ball of time. It was when I was created in response to 01:04:59
what was very chaotic when we first started building pilots, we went out and we took the old part task that people used to drive 01:05:04
down in little space buggies. 01:05:10
And people I don't want to take all the concrete aggregate. 01:05:16
What would you do? 01:05:28
A pathway for a statement and you came to a master block or a big tree or just go, all right, you just build your path to go 01:05:31
around. Why would you bother taking those things out? You would go so slow. You might have just go around that country or not. You 01:05:38
never take it down. The problem is when you then put a high performance on that, those quarters, those turns and people are going 01:05:45
off the boat and the rate of fatality in the early pilot base was phenomenal. 01:05:52
It was protesting was up in about 80 years because they're very smart people, said. You know what? I think we can do something 01:06:00
about this. We can actually into it the way people will respond to our designs and we can design roadways that we're creative. The 01:06:06
common mistakes that drives me. 01:06:12
This is a genius insight and it's against, like literally, say, millions and millions of lives. 01:06:19
Here's the road through the traffic going this direction. We understand that with oncoming vehicles, if you were to float a little 01:06:26
bit, if you were to, you know. 01:06:31
Radio or glance of a kid in the back seat and you accidentally loaded a little bit the other lane, you might get in a head on 01:06:37
collision. And So what you just said, you know what we need to forgive that you need to allow a little bit of extra room. And So 01:06:42
what they did is they didn't like, you know, a little bit. 01:06:47
So I understood that you know what, sometimes if you have a long end despite their best intentions. 01:06:52
There will be something that will happen. 01:06:57
Here going 60 miles an hour and three is about 50 miles an hour. Not a big deal. The fact that the tree is going zero is a 01:07:37
problem. And so the idea here is we want to get rid of those inanimate objects that will cause that kinetic energy that we have 01:07:43
and not to participate in too quickly. We want to be able to participate that something so. 01:07:49
Now we have a roadway designed to forgive the mistakes that make again. Really, this is a. 01:07:56
Genius innovation to recognize that humans have an infallibility. We are not perfect. Even the most potential violence is going to 01:08:06
stay from, you know, announcement. And what we want to do is make sure that our designs forgive those mistakes and reduce the 01:08:13
impact on them. What is the following? And we're talking about this approach is coming down. 01:08:19
When we take these design presses and we say we also apply here because when you wind up lands, when you put in the covering 01:08:29
areas, when you remove possible what you do is you remove people to drive faster than. 01:08:34
You create a conference in a place where you have an incredible amount of complexity. You have simplified down the driving 01:08:41
experience and created for the driver a cost sense of simplicity. 01:08:46
No place in the city yet. All of our design angles for how we build it are based on the new types of based on the view sites game 01:08:52
and it's really if you need to sign and tell him to stay down. 01:08:59
Back to the driver, so that the driver has the same level of attendance that should go along with the environment that operating. 01:09:43
And the idea here is that you know, you can have an arterial where you have kind of belief that you're not going to have much 01:10:23
stuff there. 01:10:25
Or you can have a local. 01:10:28
Business. But this fascinating area, however in the middle, and that's why this is kind of pretty slow, is really interesting. 01:10:32
This is kind of too where you can have your access, you can have your ability when you're a collector now. 01:10:38
Let me get back very little in terms of technical enormous amount vulnerability, we get that very little like a person in terms of 01:11:17
access, in terms of uploads. Incidentally, as long as they're kind of honest these we can build them safe as well. If you don't 01:11:25
move local streets that are also very safe and while you know there's so much hyper density of collisions in these areas, they 01:11:32
tend to be very low state collisions and inventors that kind of thing is this area in the middle, this area where we combine. 01:11:40
With confession that we wind up with dangerous design, we wind up a trend. Anytime you combine high speeds with complexity, 01:11:47
training movements and stop and start and all this kind of stuff you can invite, that is incredibly, incredibly interesting. 01:11:55
The further we get away from those extremes, the more we get into the middle where we're not really creating lots of money into 01:12:37
moving around. We're not really creating an environment that is generating help us. We're building things that are really, really 01:12:42
dangerous to operate in and be. 01:12:47
This is. 01:12:52
And try to make this kind of walkable and try to make it walk on street. 01:13:26
Economist This doesn't function. 01:13:29
Nobody. 01:13:33
In fact, you can look in these buildings and not align themselves in a high protein St. 10 format. They've all built parking lots 01:13:35
and 5:00 rooms. And what happened? Because they're responding to maybe when you realize sometimes, even though they've been 01:13:45
positive estimated to increase the returns, you think it's enough the street productivity of it is negative. 01:13:54
You're also not most of the building. 01:14:04
Boat is that is the happy connection between the places making a road at this. This is not a high speed connection even though we 01:14:06
have 4 highly scale lanes very very wide. Even though the center turn lanes get turn dramatic out of the way so the. 01:14:16
Nobody gets to drive quickly. The students are like low 30 mph at most. And So what happens is, despite all the extra money spent 01:14:27
building a building. 01:14:31
This is the most expensive. 01:14:39
What was financial? I'm trying to think about It's also the most dangerous type of transportation. 01:14:41
If you are traveling more than 20 miles out or less than 50,000, you are stroke and strokes are the default way that we built our 01:14:47
demands today is the default type of transportation that. 01:14:53
When you think about transportation and the idea that we need more money, what we really need is to make better use of 01:14:59
investments. You all agree and for the most part that is going to mean fixing us close, turning our stories into well created 01:15:05
streets or into hyperlinks, one or the other, If we can spend on our energy, putting the 50%, fifty percent, 8% of our global 01:15:11
miles that are stroke, this is something that is going to be productive and returning for us. You can take the existing 01:15:17
investments that we pay and make them really pay off. 01:15:23
We want Transit Authority. All of this is getting a greater party for autonomous in the space. 01:16:10
We need to intensify these names. This is a very complicated way of saying these build stuff. The way you build wealth in place is 01:16:16
to actually build wealth in the place, go out and build them. So pick enough building approach. We need these places to Internet 01:16:21
continue to expand and we need to ultimately embrace the complexity. 01:16:27
That he's going to provide the feedback, both info and intellectual feedback that we get in these places. We need to recognize 01:16:34
that streets are adaptive, changing human ecosystem and you don't need that very easy. First of all, we want to travel and they 01:16:40
say and they may travel safe and quickly. 01:16:46
Get rid of those training because you get rid of all those accesses. You make it a very simplified type of design. You separate 01:16:54
automobiles from other traffic. You put your you would not put people watching anywhere you want to have a robot. Sometimes that 01:17:02
makes like advocates angry with me. Why? Should be able to bite you too. OK, but there's no way, there's no in any way to make it 01:17:09
safe to someone with a bike on the shoulder of the road. You know, over 20 miles an hour is not. It is not. 01:17:17
Particularly ideal for 4015. Sixty miles an hour. There's no way to make mistake. I mean more biking when we're talking about 01:17:26
those facilities need to be provided. 01:17:30
And delineate differences physical separation between the high speed of the vehicles and taking of those. 01:17:34
These are not places we're going to come up to that. Simplify that. 01:18:12
Those are reasonable. 01:18:20
In fact, not unreasonable. That almost 5 explanation is so big. We have two places people want to meet. There's one place to and 01:18:22
create the building. That's it. That's what it is. It's a connection between the team and there are all kinds of ways to respond 01:18:30
to that. These places become more successful as a connection between them allows goods and commerce and people to go back and 01:18:37
forth. Those places we can go to the road traffic will grow because I don't know what happened if you can add more capacity to. 01:18:45
You know. 01:18:55
But if you're gonna have people in one place and you want to be another place, do you create those back and forth? You can build a 01:19:19
roadside 10 system on the street. Of course. When I transit is one one man we can include. There's all kinds of things we can do 01:19:25
with well placed, well designed to handle wealth and increasing demand. 01:19:30
This is almost 2 seconds and it's because it's hard to wrap this that you actually could do a lot less in terms of awareness and 01:19:36
get a lot more if we just simplify down the charge that we're putting on that and what my expectations do. 01:19:43
Streets are. 01:19:51
And if you walk away? 01:19:54
Streets are more of an art than science is. More of an site is going to be something that is going to require more artistry. More 01:19:58
theaters report more kind of complex feedback than opening up a design. 01:20:04
Chinese domestic race on the same St. you can see they're in the middle of a storm water drain. We've got, you know, common 01:20:45
sidewalks and curves and drainage we've done. 01:20:48
In that street the idea that there is one St. design, the idea that we would go in and say that this is a you know that's kind of 01:20:54
St. and so regardless of what is adjacent, regardless of what is that regardless of related land use is is trying to in a sense 01:21:01
simplify down to a couple great places. 01:21:07
This is that people want to be. You're not talking about. 01:21:14
Labor. That's a point I want to make about financial productivity here. 01:21:18
They look like that, you know that traditional development, right? 01:21:27
Huge difference in financial productivity if you work with us two weeks ago. 01:21:33
It cost a lot of orientation on the other one right here on the head of town, 20 acres, 20 acres of the downtown has been 01:21:38
community neglected and still see the same type of productivity when we're looking at building successful places. 01:21:45
He's been. 01:22:23
When we go to all those places, when we go to the ones where when a model city of the city of the city, you see the highest amount 01:22:26
of the highest amount of profit in our municipal corporations collecting the bus every month. There is one thing that we see again 01:22:32
and again and again show up in these places and that is human beings. 01:22:37
Humans are an indicator species of success. 01:22:43
When you are out trying to do this heartland, a building a great street. When you are out iterating, trying to do the next step of 01:22:47
what you can do to make it better, you will know you are succeed. When you start to see people to show up, when you start to see 01:22:52
people come out and exist in the habitat, you know that you are succeeding. Humans are success. When we're building streets about 01:22:58
financially productive and successful, you will see humans there. 01:23:03
They like to think of it as a valid approach where they are not in a sense of imposing their values on society, but they're merely 01:23:13
reflecting in rational design approach. This is a full value. The value is so deeply invented as valid when it is going to design 01:23:22
a street. They have a very successful hierarchy of things like that. The first thing they say is. 01:23:30
Design. 01:23:40
Traffic and they're expected to handle. Then given the speed and volume, what does the design say you should do in order to have 01:23:44
the state, and then how much will that cost? These are the values of the engineering order as they are, as they are applied during 01:23:49
this design process. 01:23:53
I have gone out and given this talk to 1000 thousand people across North America. And I do this thing where I ask people to 01:23:59
identify their values and we go through this exercise and say what's the most female these four you are looking at looking at 01:24:05
streets in your neighborhood where you shop, you can go. If you're looking at the streets and your place you're expecting to go 01:24:10
above, what would be the values that we apply? What other order that you want? 01:24:16
And then we ask again as they're going to stop. 01:24:22
And the third thing, they always say this is universal. What do you think? I will say one. 01:24:25
And when we look at these values, what we see time and time again? 01:24:32
Human values. 01:24:36
They are willing to sacrifice. They're willing to sacrifice in order to achieve cost effective. 01:24:38
That is the application of our cultural values to address. But I want everyone to understand that you're not going to have a 01:24:47
problem. It is not embodied in my process and you. 01:24:52
I want to touch on the history. 01:25:00
Many of us that have experienced the ideal industry is a very kind of catching concept. I remember back in the early 90s when I 01:25:04
first started here about Complete Streets, we all never got back to this. It was, you know, touching beauty and silly and what are 01:25:11
we doing here? We actually grew to when you like it and I think you see anything here today and the reason they embrace it is 2.1 01:25:17
and doing it. There's actually more budget that comes with building something like this, just a fire larger budget what have you. 01:25:24
The second thing is doesn't compromise, it doesn't undermine the values of the approach. It allows us to keep those speed volumes 01:25:32
to be caused hierarchy in place as we apply it to the street, and the whole fundamental idea is in place and a little bit. 01:25:40
You know, you get away, you get away. Everything is like there's no idea here of anything. It's just auto oriented design focus. 01:25:50
How do you compromise at all? 01:25:55
Accommodate pedestrians where I don't know how many environment. This is a huge improvement over the Hispanic way that we've been 01:26:02
building places for decades and decades for doing that and making that approach. To understand this is a combination of our 01:26:07
environment. If you want to compute a truly productive place, if you want to go, if you want to go Strong towns, those are places 01:26:12
that accommodate opponents environment dominated. 01:26:17
People that create values, people that are Indian species of success. If you want to build wealthy wealthiness, you have healthy 01:26:24
places. You have to build them. People and people show up. 01:26:29
In the opposite direction, start thinking right. You just want to take a little bit of courage to assert a different set of values 01:26:39
and give up understanding. 01:26:46
And then we can do those things. Now we can move in opposite direction, but we can move the direction from prosperity on country 01:26:54
safety of building better places like that we'd love to begin and enjoy such as that are connected by great Rd. networks that are 01:27:00
free of congestion or reduce congestion that allow us to have economic gains of transportation to provide without we have positive 01:27:05
down your cycle of building congestion, building congestion. 01:27:10
We can build fantastic transformation. You can just focus on approach and building great notes and those students and living in 01:27:16
their pros and focusing on creativity approach. I want to, I realize that I don't think that you are know what to do. Take that 01:27:23
out first on that. 01:27:29
Hey, made it all the way through, Yeah, Yeah, 1 1/2. 01:27:38
The downtown gonna be done like. 01:27:44
Yeah so I mean that's I I think you see kind of vineyard what's that's what sets us apart from from some of our our our neighbors 01:27:49
is try trying to focus on on the the street design and and you know we're take that approach with with the downtown. So as you 01:27:56
come on the the 7th or the 15th we'll have a an update on the downtown design and they'll provide you like the phasing plan 01:28:04
timelines. 01:28:12
Some of the like the businesses that command the Promenade, so it'll be a really interesting conversation, but I but there's been 01:28:20
a lot of focus on on creating streets and creating an environment that will accommodate vehicles in a people oriented environment. 01:28:28
And so I thought it was really interesting and we're in the type of situation where you know we're getting to the point where 01:28:36
we're starting to build out, but we still do have a lot of infrastructure that that that is that needs to build. And so just like 01:28:44
keeping these things in mind, you know we don't necessarily want to create strouds and so we, you know, we want to try to focus on 01:28:51
on that that street design. But anyway I'd love to hear you guys the spots and yeah I have some so between. 01:28:59
Our Last Things presentation. 01:29:08
And then this video like I keep I keep going back to Mill Rd. 01:29:10
That's a that's a strobe right there. I don't want to cross that ever. And yet I have a 14 year old who crosses it casino going to 01:29:16
his old bus stop every morning, so. 01:29:21
I'm comfortable with that helmets anyway, so. 01:29:28
I loved. I loved their presentation with a. 01:29:34
The roundabout placed. 01:29:39
Up on the north entrance to the forge. 01:29:42
I'm like why don't we have 1 S too and like hello? 01:29:48
Let's slow it down. Let's make it actually pedestrian friendly. Let's get an actual bike lane in there. Maybe they're showing the 01:29:54
bike lane with the public transportation lane. I love having that when I go to Seattle. It's really nice to go down those roads 01:30:01
and you feel safe walking on the sidewalk. The bicyclist still generally that they're not going to get hit by a bus, right? But 01:30:09
it's. 01:30:16
I don't know. I'm convinced we need to fill that rope down and narrow it. Do you have an update on the design? We're looking at 01:30:25
doing a design on the mill roof next year. 01:30:31
So I came the door license, Professional Active license. 01:30:42
Six states. 01:30:51
Alright, so yeah. 01:30:53
The presentation by the BYU planning students, it was actually pretty was well thought out, well done. They capture a lot of 01:31:01
points in terms of ensuring that the that we can enhance Mill Rd. on both sides and for the pedestrian portion of it and in 01:31:09
regards to moving forward. 01:31:18
Implementing some of their designs and. 01:31:27
Going down to reality, we have replaced into our budget for next fiscal year. 01:31:33
Designs and studies specifically like for example like the Flyer North and Melrose section for a four way stop signal to be placed 01:31:41
there and also to increase the pedestrian walkability. 01:31:48
And of course when we have a. 01:31:56
The BRT, I believe it's called Ralph that's going through that would be going around going on Mill Rd. I think terminating on 01:31:59
Florida, NI believe that's you know that would be another consideration of game traffic through In regards to the roundabouts 01:32:09
around about Rd. close to 800 N we would have to be working with UDOT, we would have to work with UDOT in order to make that. 01:32:18
Happen. 01:32:29
But I can tell you know further areas kind of along the corridor doing it along the corridor that hasn't been built it would be 01:32:31
much much feasible and the ones that kept currently already been built mainly due to like the in order to get the land that would 01:32:38
be needed to do a roundabout. Of course there's other options like for example like reducing the amount of lands I dare say Rd. 01:32:46
diet of course next needle giggle and laugh and for the fact that he likes that. 01:32:54
But yeah like for example like maybe instead of doing the traffic signal 400 N and. 01:33:02
No Rd. maybe around about would be more appropriate when we put these things in our budget and moving forward are we going to 01:33:09
necessarily say this is the answer because we have yet to determine what the most appropriate answer would be on that but I'm just 01:33:16
thinking how we want we want our. 01:33:22
We we want our people who live here to be able to. 01:33:32
Walking and bike and we're gonna have an influx of. 01:33:35
The college students, once that campus is built and they're going to be walking across that street to get food and see a movie. 01:33:42
And so we may as well make it as pedestrian friendly now as we hope to see it later. 01:33:51
And it's just like honestly just slowing that road down. We have already mitigations with the curved roads and line of sight being 01:34:01
a little bit more difficult. 01:34:05
But. 01:34:11
We I feel like we could do more and some of those things would be. 01:34:13
Relatively inexpensive, Yeah. And I'm sure, I mean, Emily have you like to talk about traffic calming. I mean, she's done quite 01:34:19
very about work on traffic calming. I should probably talk about the three ES of traffic. Traffic calming. I can attest with my 01:34:26
partner Crime right here, not that long ago Garden Railroad, that's at least 35 miles an hour where we're doing not, not a mile 01:34:34
over. We're on record. Sure, sure. Yeah. Underwear. Yeah, they were. I mean, five people were passing us. 01:34:41
Because it's built for that. 01:34:50
It's got wide lanes. It's got. Yeah. Taking a left turn on it. Yeah. Because you're crossing. Yeah. What are the five lanes? I 01:34:53
mean, you've got five wide lines. People are. 01:34:59
I I'll hit, I don't know, 45 and be like how did I get this fast? 01:35:05
Yeah. 01:35:11
Yeah, I'd recommend we change the name to Middle Streets. 01:35:14
As the first step to move us in the. 01:35:19
So something that stood out to me, that maybe didn't stand out through a lot of different people is I think we think a lot about 01:35:23
like, Oh yeah, let's make more streets. 01:35:29
But he also talked about how there's a place for roads and there's a place for streets and it's getting somewhere in between 01:35:35
that's that's the problem. And streets have a place where it's a walkable area. Mill Rd. for example, Half of it, I think is going 01:35:41
to be, half you're going to want to walk. The other half of it is going to be, why would you want to cross the road to like get to 01:35:47
more apartments? Like you're not going to be wanting to walk, you're going to be wanting to get to the freeway. So I think having 01:35:53
mitigation. 01:35:59
On 400 N all the way up to 800 N, taking that down to one lane, that makes sense. But taking the whole road and making it a single 01:36:05
lane maybe doesn't make sense because that's more of a road, I would say, than it is a street. There's not going to be any kind of 01:36:12
economic gain from slowing down that little section South of 400 N and I think it's kind of the same for a couple of other areas. 01:36:20
We have Center St. and Vineyard and Main St. in Vineyard. 01:36:27
Like its homes. Like, yeah, people want to commute and we should make ways of commuting through our park system, through our trail 01:36:35
system. Absolutely we should do that. But at the same time, like, I I like the way Vineyard was designed in that the neighborhoods 01:36:42
and aesthetically a lot of people don't like it. But that houses back up to the roads and then there's a wall. So kids aren't 01:36:50
running out into the street on these main roads. People aren't crossing randomly on these roads. 01:36:57
They're crossing the specific sections at the park at Holdaway Rd. Those are sections where they cross. Besides that, I think that 01:37:05
those should be considered roads. Once we get into city stuff, the downtown, absolutely. Streets. Like we don't need roads there. 01:37:12
We should have streets. We want people to stay there. We want people to drive so slowly and see what restaurants there are and go 01:37:20
shopping and spend money. That's where we need streets. But I don't think that we can just. 01:37:27
Blanket a whole area and say, well, let's make streets 'cause we want it to be pedestrian friendly everywhere. Frankly, I don't 01:37:35
think that people want to walk everywhere, and so I don't want to walk down to the Maverick, but like that that intersection where 01:37:42
we hit. 01:37:50
Where Center St. turns into Mill Rd. 01:37:59
I think that should be the that's as part of that road. People live up and down the rest of it up until the movie complex and then 01:38:03
that's where we also want to be pedestrian friendly. 01:38:09
I did the Maverick. 01:38:16
Just yeah, well. 01:38:19
Yeah. Oh, it's 'cause there's somewhere else to go. I don't send like 35, but like. 01:38:21
It's that area is commercial, that area it makes sense to have. 01:38:28
Wider lanes and a little bit faster because you're prepping to go on the freeway, right? 01:38:34
But that's not the case when to get north of that, like people go that way to. 01:38:40
Hit a destination close by. 01:38:47
So I feel like there are ways to slowly migrate that in let the people, the residents, get home safely and walk to where they need 01:38:51
to people cross. 01:38:57
No Rd. all the time on foot. And it's frightening to me that they do it, not even not at night, because they're going back and 01:39:04
forth from the townhouses to the complexes between complexes and then they'll be going. 01:39:13
Up and over to yeah, the movie theater again. So it there's already a residential need for it now. 01:39:24
So I I'll. 01:39:33
I'll push back hard on that price. 01:39:35
So had had Mill Rd. had that complex been designed as it was hoped to be designed as a mixed-use, it would be totally different 01:39:38
conversation. But this is our present reality and we've got to deal with that. 01:39:45
Yeah. So couple thoughts I had as we were watching that is I think we are in a good position where we don't compare to a lot of 01:39:52
cities like we we only have a handful of miles that are probably considered those problems strodes because not even all of center 01:39:59
St. would would be that you know West of the roundabout. 01:40:07
Isn't going to be a problem in that area I also I think. 01:40:16
Part of the way that. 01:40:21
I like the idea of where the people are. Then that's where you're having successful places or productive places. 01:40:23
We just finished up the six year old soccer that was all at Gammon Park and I actually saw, you know, lots of people walked, 01:40:31
walked and biked from the neighborhoods just to the north. 01:40:37
And there were several parents that just stood out in the middle of Center St. and then like a line of people went through. So I 01:40:43
think there's like, if we're talking about like easy, low hanging fruit, there's probably like 5 intersections in the in the city 01:40:50
like 400 N and Mill Rd. Center and Holdaway Vineyard Rd. and Vineyard Loop by trailside Elementary Main Street and Vineyard Rd. Or 01:40:58
400 N and Main Street and Vineyard Loop Rd. Or 600 N where. 01:41:06
They're pretty terrible right now that that connecting and I actually think in those situations pedestrian enhancements would 01:41:14
actually improve traffic in a lot of a lot of ways too. And it was just interesting to see that because we've got a lot of 01:41:23
opportunity to connect places to probably even see more people validating those connections and and heading to the parks. 01:41:31
While keeping safety. So yeah, I like this mindset. I know it's there's not like a silver bullet to solve to solve everything 01:41:41
there. But I think we are in a good place and I think there's there's some pretty easy steps that we can take to keep improving 01:41:47
this. And then I think the the biggest thing moving forward is not. 01:41:53
You know, whatever, whatever lessons we've learned in the last 10 years, like let's make sure those are applied moving forward. So 01:42:00
like Mill Rd. being extended to the north, I haven't seen you know, the detailed plans, but like we'd want to make sure that we're 01:42:05
not. 01:42:09
So we're we're actually situated really nicely as a city I think yeah I I agree with Geneva, like that is a solid quote. I I love 01:42:46
taking Geneva. I'll take it over the freeway sometimes. 01:42:52
It is. 01:42:58
It is the fast trip and I feel comfortable making. 01:43:00
Other thoroughfares throughout our commercial and residential districts just so. 01:43:04
Or another comment is just extending Main Street to the South and obviously residents down there. I'm sure Bryce has a vested 01:43:14
interest too, like you don't want. 01:43:19
You wouldn't want the the section of Main Street from the roundabout up to vineyard connector. 01:43:25
Extended S like that that's not you know that that wouldn't that wouldn't work well there. So I that that's kind of what I'm 01:43:31
getting at just making sure we're learning properly from different places and getting what we want. So Anderson Anderson Geneva is 01:43:39
on the same page as us. I mean with the downtown plans that we've seen there this is what they're going for. What about the other 01:43:46
developers near Mill Road near like Martin Snow and his developments is he have you talked to him? Is he on the same page or. 01:43:54
Because I know from his other projects, it's mostly kind of what we saw with the Geneva nitrogen tonight. It's like big spread out 01:44:02
buildings. 01:44:06
Like, are we gonna see more mixed-use like areas where we can have more of a pedestrian friendly? 01:44:10
I can speak on in regards to the Melrose portion of Martin Snow's session. I mean they're working, we're working with them and in 01:44:18
regards to the design portion of it and. 01:44:24
In regards to pedestrian crossings and so forth, I mean they're open to working with us in terms of having us dictate to to them 01:44:32
how we want to Manhattan Crossing. So for example, we're looking at doing raised mediums for pedestrian refugees refugee refuge 01:44:39
with in addition to. 01:44:45
Crossing signals for that in particular and then any kind of robots that would be welcome in terms of, you know, so we're in 01:44:53
essence driving the boat in terms of the design for the surface of Melrose on that in regards to the use of Morganton. 01:45:03
Yeah. And I I just like to say I actually think you guys are kind of like both, right. I know you kind of looking at it from from 01:45:15
different perspectives, but what what I got from his presentation was essentially what we have in Vineyard is Geneva Rd. which is 01:45:22
not necessarily an invader, but that's that's you know we like are used to that and then when your connector are essentially the 01:45:30
roads whereas everything within the city because we have all these uses that there are winding up to them. 01:45:37
Those are roads and and one thing he did point out is that roads are complex and that you need to design them. 01:45:45
That connects down to to your neighborhood but making the you know and this whole part of the city on the West side is as 01:46:25
residential and even though like the house is back up to them. You know having a house that you know your backyard is, is a 01:46:33
budding a a collector Rd. That's going very fast. I think kind of lowers the quality of life. But if it's a slower, you know like 01:46:41
if if cars are going slower it's more prioritizing the pedestrian. I think if we kind of look at that not necessarily changing. 01:46:50
A place where residents had had issues and we've heard that from, you know, across the board, up and down from the north, all the 01:48:06
way down to the South, that people want safe crossings on on Main Street because they want to get to the park. They want to get to 01:48:12
the clubhouse, the pool, the fitness center. You know, it's just where a lot of the trails come on both ways you want to get to 01:48:18
the lake. That's such a big, a big attraction right now. I mean cash and I, we walked in just a little segment from Center St. to 01:48:24
where a dead end. 01:48:30
But putting safety at the top, you know, putting I, I thought like the hierarchy was really interesting and he said safety. 01:49:09
Costs, volume, speed, but that's that's what the general public looks at and I think that that we should have that in mind too. 01:49:19
And even with the extension of Mill Road to the north, we're done with a lot of residential up there. Potentially there could be 01:49:25
with us looking for ways of getting affordable housing and trying to add maybe an adjacent University Village and those kind of 01:49:31
things would have to reduce environmental, but most part it's going to be. 01:49:36
System that can take us to, you know, Salt Lake City or, you know, link higher wherever the major employment centers are. 01:50:53
Anyway, those are my thoughts. 01:51:00
Yeah, yeah. And I think that there are ways that we can. 01:51:04
I think that there are things that we can do that aren't dramatic, but we'll make a big difference. 01:51:07
Specifically like as we're working on the corridor plan, like having some like raised area where the park kind of still attaches 01:51:14
to itself and you can tell that it's still like you could walk across Center St. would be cool where it would be kind of tight and 01:51:20
slow to get through there with the car because you feel like you're driving through a park essentially I think would be, I mean 01:51:27
222 of the big things to come out of the active transportation plan. 01:51:34
And I'm one thing that he looked at was what if you know like is it overbuilt? And he said absolutely it's overbuilt. And what 01:52:17
would happen if if we put an actual bike lane, a buffered bike lane on the outside of it, What would happen to to to the to the 01:52:24
volumes. It doesn't change. And and so there there's some major opportunities to, you know to to look at at Main Street because 01:52:32
Main Street is going to connect into the downtown and downtown is going to be very pedestrian friendly but. 01:52:40
It would kind of suck if it stopped. You know like like the the really pedestrian friendliness cycle oriented design starts as you 01:52:48
get to downtown as you leave it it it it sort of dissipates and so you know looking at some at some pretty significant changes on 01:52:55
Main Street, I I think we're we're we're going to see in the future more you know those will be some future discussions but. 01:53:02
There so there there probably will be some like big proposals on on you know on Main Street but I I think like Center St. just 01:53:10
making some safe cost and like where the. 01:53:15
You know on the corridor plan, I think that that's gonna be really important. Yeah, you bring up a good point of. 01:53:20
Our downtown is going to have very pedestrian friendly. 01:53:27
Roads, bike, friendly roads, public transportation, and like, why should downtown get all the good stuff? 01:53:31
Cool. 01:53:42
That's one thing I wanted to mention, and now I can't think of it. 01:53:44
Oh yeah, one more thing, just real quick. From the video, he talked about areas that brought in the most money and he compared 01:53:50
like a a big box store with the parking lots to these little places. And I feel like the most successful little places or places 01:53:56
that were built hundreds of years ago when they didn't have big box stores and stuff and they just weren't an option. So they 01:54:01
built all these buildings. Portland, for example, they had a bunch of little stores. 01:54:07
How? How can you, how can you do that in a new city? 01:54:15
Because it's hard to. 01:54:20
Like it's the. 01:54:22
When someone's like we want a grocery store like I would love all of us would love to see a little mom and pop shop that just. But 01:54:25
it seems like it's almost impossible. Like how do we how do we make that more possible? Obviously with the downtown where that's 01:54:31
what we're doing with the downtown. But how can we make that? 01:54:37
In other areas like Mayor Mill Rd. yeah. 01:54:45
I think there's an opportunity to do something more more creative than just plopping down you know 200,000 square feet of of big 01:57:37
box. I mean there's there's there's there's a higher level of value that that that area could, could, could achieve if we do it 01:57:42
correctly. 01:57:47
So with the flagship they were kind of forced to the table to come to the city and make a plan. Martin Snow or and the whole 01:57:54
development or it's like what three to seven owners around Mill Rd. There. They don't have to come to the table. How do we how do 01:58:01
we start conversations with them to let them know like this is our vision, like we've invested into the university. This is what 01:58:07
we want to see. We want more of a. 01:58:14
I don't wanna say futuristic but a more modern walkable area. How can we bring them to the table to you know we we have had 01:58:21
conversations in in the past in that area. They're very dead set on like a kind of the flex office type type model. I mean I I I 01:58:29
do think it's it's a good thing that it has some jobs but I think if we have good infrastructure it could provide some some some 01:58:37
opportunity as we go through the planning process on East Geneva. We have we have reached out to to them. 01:58:45
About coming to the table and being part of that process. 01:58:53
There's some interest, there's not, there's not a ton, whereas from flagship I I think that's where the real opportunity is 'cause 01:58:57
like what they're like. Their piece is about 340 acres. So it's massive, whereas the kind of the Martin snow piece it, it's very 01:59:03
big, but it's more of adjacent to the already that flex office type environment. So I think what he's going to do to fit in in 01:59:08
well with her, I think it's going to be up to the city though to make sure that that we require good pedestrian infrastructure in 01:59:14
those developments. 01:59:20
That's about 500 acres altogether, big development. All right. And last just quick question, yes. 02:00:36
Do we get tax dollars from the university land at all as far as retail goes? 02:00:44
Potential retail, you get a sales tax, so I'd have to check on that because they have it at the UVU bank. Campus and Orem, they 02:00:49
have like the food court and everything like that. My understanding is that you do get sales tax, but you don't get property tax. 02:00:55
Alright, cool. Any other questions, comments, anything? 02:01:02
Sorry, I kind of dragged this out. 02:01:07
If there's nothing else, then meeting a journal. Oh, sorry, never mind. Not meeting adjourned. Staff reports. 02:01:09
Discussion Disclosures. 02:01:17
We'll have well, rather than we do the the traffic calming. 02:01:21
Training. At some point she was going to make some comments or you would want it to right now. 02:01:27
Just real quick, our meetings 15th is the joint work session. So try, try, try to come to that, that'll be really important. 02:01:34
That's going to be downtown, so we'll get a good update. If you have anything that you want to know about specifically says send 02:01:41
me an e-mail, We're working with the the developer on a presentation. 02:01:48
Yes, cool. Anything else from staff? 02:02:33
I will mention Morgan and I did go down to Las Vegas to a retail convention last weekend. We were able to just talk to water 02:02:39
retailers, a lot of companies just kind of trying to sell them on vineyards. So that was a good time down there. 02:02:45
So just a quick update from engineering in regards to the downtown Main Street 800 N connection. 02:03:00
Yeah, we're putting in a signal there and it should be completed by July and construction is moving smoothly along. 02:03:09
Great. And that's right after that is when the bus route and the train would. 02:03:16
Yes, again, service. OK. 02:03:23
Great. Awesome. 02:03:25
If that's it. 02:03:28
All right, meeting adjourned. 02:03:30