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MOTION: COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN MOTIONED TO APPROVE AUGUST22; MINUTES AS PRESENTED. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSION JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.              BUSINESS ITEMS1    Mister Carwash Site Plan Application- Elliott Smith with TerraForm Companies is seeking approval of a site plan application for a Mister Carwash located at1 N Geneva Road, Vineyard, Utah,059. Parcel ID::513:0003. Car washes are a permitted use within the GRMU Zone. The Planning Commission will take appropriate action.
Cache shared a presentation for Mr. Car Wash. He went over the site plans and addressed concerns. A discussion ensued.
Elliott Smith with TerraForm Companies commented that his company does single tenant retail and gave an overview of the site details and concerns. A discussion ensued.
MOTION: VICE CHAIR BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO APPROVE MR. CAR WASH AS PRESENTED WITH THE CONDITIONS LISTED BY STAFF. ·       THE APPLICANT PAYS ANY OUTSTANDING FEES AND MAKES ANY REDLINE CORRECTIONS. ·       THE APPLICANT IS SUBJECT TO ALL FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAWS. ·       THE VACUUM ENCLOSURE LOCATION IS MOVED TO BE AT LEAST FEET FROM ANY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. ·       THE LANDSCAPING ALONG GENEVA ROAD MUST BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE LANDSCAPING ZONING ORDINANCE. AN UPDATED LANDSCAPING PLAN REFLECTING ALL VEGETATION AND GROUND COVER SHALL BE PROVIDED TO STAFF PRIOR TO SUBMISSION OF A BUILDING PERMIT. ·       A DECORATIVE FENCE NOT TO EXCEED” IN HEIGHT SHALL BE INSTALLED WITHIN THE LANDSCAPING BUFFER ALONG GENEVA ROAD. THE DECORATIVE FENCE SHALL BE SHOWN ON THE UPDATED LANDSCAPING PLAN AND A MATERIAL DETAIL SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL PRIOR TO SUBMISSION OF A BUILDING PERMIT. ·       ALL SIGNAGE MUST BE REVIEWED THROUGH A SEPARATE PERMIT. ·       ALL BICYCLE RACKS SHALL MEET THE GENERAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE BICYCLE ORDINANCE INCLUDING THAT THEY BE OF THE INVERTED-U STYLE. ·       ALL PRESCRIPTIONS OF A SOUND STUDY MUST BE INSTALLED ACCORDING TO VINEYARD’S ZONING AND MUNICIPAL CODE. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSION JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Commissioner Jenkins noted that this is permitted use in the location and to keep an eye the decibels.  2    Jiffy Lube Site Plan Application- Elliott Smith with TerraForm Companies is seeking approval of a site plan application for a Jiffy Lube located at9 N Geneva Road, Vineyard, Utah,059. Parcel ID::513:0002. Light vehicle repair facilities are a permitted use within the GRMU Zone. The Planning Commission will take appropriate action.
Cache shared a presentation for Jiffy Lube. He went over the site plans and addressed concerns.
Elliott responded to questions the commissioners asked regarding how many bays and the services provided. A discussion ensued.
MOTION: VICE CHAIR BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE JIFFY LUBE SITE PLAN AS REQUESTED BY ELLIOTT SMITH WITH THE PROPSED SIX CONDITIONS ·       THE APPLICANT PAYS ANY OUTSTANDING FEES AND MAKES ANY REDLINE CORRECTIONS. ·       THE APPLICANT IS SUBJECT TO ALL FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LAWS. ·       THE LANDSCAPING ALONG GENEVA ROAD MUST BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THE LANDSCAPING ZONING ORDINANCE. AN UPDATED LANDSCAPING PLAN REFLECTING ALL VEGETATION AND GROUND COVER SHALL BE PROVIDED TO STAFF PRIOR TO SUBMISSION OF A BUILDING PERMIT. ·       A DECORATIVE FENCE NOT TO EXCEED” IN HEIGHT SHALL BE INSTALLED WITHIN THE LANDSCAPING BUFFER ALONG GENEVA ROAD. THE DECORATIVE FENCE SHALL BE SHOWN ON THE UPDATED LANDSCAPING PLAN AND A MATERIAL DETAIL SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL PRIOR TO SUBMISSION OF A BUILDING PERMIT. ·       ALL SIGNAGE MUST BE REVIEWED THROUGH A SEPARATE PERMIT. ·       ALL BICYCLE RACKS SHALL MEET THE GENERAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE BICYCLE ORDINANCE INCLUDING THAT THEY BE OF THE INVERTED-U STYLE. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSION JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.            Public Hearing1    Zoning Text Amendment- The Planning Commission will hold a public hearing regarding a text amendment application. Jaden Rasmussen with Tagg-N-Go Carwash has applied for a text amendment to change car washes from an accessory use within the RC District to a permitted use. The Planning Commission will take appropriate action.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Briam introduced the reason for the zone change request from Tagg-N-Go Carwash and a discussion ensued.
Conner Atkin, co-owner of Tagg-N-Go Carwash, gave a history of what they have been researching for the location. A discussion ensued.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND DENYING ORDINANCE22-16 TO MODIFY THE REGIONAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, CHANGING CARWASH FACILITIES TO PERMITTED USE, REASON BEING TO NOT CHANGE IT FOR ALL OF REGIONAL COMMERCIAL AND RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT PURSUE A PATH TO REZONE THIS PROPERTY SO ITS PERMITTED USE DOESN’T IMPACT SUCH A LARGE PORTION OF THE CITY. COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  2    Moderate Income Housing Plan (MIHP) Update within the Vineyard City General Plan- Utah State Code HB462 requires that Vineyard City update its MIHP to reflect and include at least five (5) strategies from code-9a-403 ‘General Plan Preparation’. The Commission will analyze what strategies Vineyard City is already in the process of implementing, and which new strategies must be selected and incorporated within the Moderate-Income Housing element of the General Plan. The Planning Commission will take appropriate action.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Briam presented the item and explained what needed to be submitted for the Moderate-Income Housing Plan. A discussion ensued.
Resident Taylor Haroldsen expressed his concerns about only having single family homes in the community.
Chair Brady responded that having single family homes can be restricted to certain areas. He stated that he has concerns that a lot of ‘single room occupancy’ can cause a lot of problems, especially with parking. A discussion ensued.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO ADOPT ALL THE OPTIONS EXCEPT FOR “I” AS WRITTEN AND WE WILL EVALUATE “I” IN THE FUTURE AND POSSIBLY ADD IT BACKCLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER JENKINS, COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON, AND COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                WORKSESSIONNo work session was held.                TRAINING SESSION No training was held.              COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
Cache reported that the staff was going to an American Planning Association (APA) training that week.
Braim reported that they hadcommunity events planned for the Central Quarter Park Plan and a Facebook Live.
Commissioner Bramwell asked if there were any updates on Walkara Way. A discussion ensued.              ADJOURNMENT Chair Brady adjourned the meeting at11 PM       CERTIFIED CORRECT ON: January,24   CERTIFIED BY:/s/Heidi Jackman                                        Heidi Jackman, Deputy Recorder
Welcome everybody. It is September 7th, 2022, and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We're going to open the 00:00:02
meeting with Anthony giving us an invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:08
Our Father in Heaven, we're grateful to be gathered together to discuss the needs of the city, and we pray. 00:00:16
For openness and insights into the decisions we'll be making and that we can keep the community in mind as we make these 00:00:23
decisions. And we say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. 00:00:28
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:38
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:44
Thank you, Anthony. 00:00:53
All right, we'll move into an open session. Now's the time. If you have any comments you'd like to make publicly, please come to 00:00:55
the podium here. State your name. 00:01:00
Have any public comments? 00:01:05
All right. If not, we will move into the minutes for review and approval. Do I have a motion on that? 00:01:08
I do move that we approve the minutes as presented. I have a second. 00:01:13
Second, all in favor, aye. All right, moving to the business item 4.1. 00:01:18
Sorry, we got to move around for a second. 00:01:38
Switch the channel so my laptop can display. 00:01:43
One of those things. 00:01:49
Than that yeah, transportation. 00:01:53
Is it working? 00:02:06
OK, great. So, yeah. 00:02:08
My name is Cash Hansi. I will be doing the site plan review for both Mr. Car Wash and Jiffy Lube. While the applications are gonna 00:02:11
look very similar 'cause it's looks like it's one site plan, we are moving them separately together just in case there's anything 00:02:17
you guys wanna hold back or anything like that. We just wanna make sure that we could get both of them the chance for for a good 00:02:22
review. So. 00:02:28
Start off with the Mr. Car Wash. 00:02:36
I can zoom in here and we do have the applicant Elliot here if you guys have any questions for him later on. 00:02:40
So. 00:02:46
This right here is the site for both the Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash. The Jiffy Lube will be on the southern lot here and Mr. Car 00:02:48
Wash will be the the northern lot here. They'll both have access to Geneva Rd. through the current O'Reilly access, so they do 00:02:55
have a cross access agreement with O'Reilly to allow for traffic. 00:03:02
So as far as learning, we didn't have a lot of concerns. So there are a few things that we do recommend for conditions for 00:03:10
approval and I can go over those next to our biggest concerns as well as just to show you the site. 00:03:18
And feel free to stop meeting anytime if you have any questions. 00:03:31
Out here. 00:03:37
OK, so this is just the Mr. Car Wash right here. So you'll see they have the access through the the Jiffy Lube law right here and 00:03:39
it'll take them to the queuing line to the car wash and then cars, it looks like they can either exit the queue right here. 00:03:46
And this is a vacuum area or they can go through the tunnel right here. 00:03:54
Next slide I should have the. 00:03:59
Sorry, I should have brought my mouth for zooming, it makes things a lot easier. 00:04:04
That's just the workings of it. Here's elevations of Mr. Carwash. So you can see that they've followed our design guidelines and 00:04:11
breaking up the longer edges and, and bringing a variety of materials and, and colors. And we think it it generally looks pretty 00:04:18
good. You do have the door facing the like garage door area facing Geneva Rd. So that means the fans are on that end. 00:04:26
And and all the signing on here also will be have to be approved through a separate sign permit. 00:04:34
Just another side elevation, other vacuums. 00:04:45
Yeah, yeah, they are just South of the building itself. 00:04:48
You want me to go back to the site plan? 00:04:53
Yeah, I don't think they're quite labeled on the site plan itself. There is one enclosure where the vacuum itself is stored and 00:04:57
I'll go back to that because I do have some comments about it. So this is, it looks like the like kiosk area where cars drive up. 00:05:03
You can see they have a little shelter for the attendants. 00:05:09
There are trash enclosures. 00:05:17
Everything general is in line with our code. 00:05:26
See if it should have the landscaping plan on this page here. 00:05:35
So. 00:05:42
Yeah, the vacuums are all along right here. 00:05:45
I don't know if does every parking spot have a vacuum. 00:05:48
Yes. OK. So and there's no canopies over the vacuums, right? No canopies and the vacuum enclosure is right here. 00:05:52
The noisy part, yeah, it's right there. So, so that was one of our comments on the site plan is that the Gru requires that all 00:06:00
enclosures be 50 feet from residential properties and this measured at about 30. 00:06:07
I don't know why it keeps zooming on me. 00:06:18
So. 00:06:22
They've done a good job at providing a good landscaping buffer from the Edgewater right here with all these trees planting to to 00:06:24
give a nice view break as well as throughout the entire property. They've done a good job at combining the the landscaping along 00:06:29
with the Jiffy Lube. 00:06:35
While it shows that like lightest green color, that is not going to be grass or turf, it's going to be I think they call it like. 00:06:41
I wish would stop doing that. 00:06:49
Crushed rock and 65% plant coverage. So it's more of a water wise landscaping choice. With this landscaping along Geneva Rd. the 00:06:56
DRU does require two things that this landscaping plan didn't show and that is they need to increase the number of shrubs. They 00:07:03
don't show any shrubs along the front of of here. And so they do need to submit a a updated site plan or landscaping plan that 00:07:10
that would show those shrubs along Geneva Rd. as well as the GRMU requires. 00:07:17
42 inch fence around the frontage. And so those are some of our conditions of approval with the landscaping is to submit just a 00:07:25
new landscaping plan that that we can do a staff review on just to show that they are putting in that fence right there as well as 00:07:30
the the required landscaping. 00:07:36
Besides that, there they met all the minimums in terms of interior landscaping, number of trees, shrubs, all of that, that they 00:07:43
did a really good job. The GRE also requires that there's I think 15 feet of of green space frontage. 00:07:50
From Geneva Road, and they've provided that all along here. 00:07:59
Can go back to the. 00:08:03
Motor for the vacuum. 00:08:05
Sure. 00:08:08
Yeah. So the vacuum, was there a specific page you wanted to see? 00:08:16
OK. Yeah. So the drum does allow for car washes. It's a permitted use. But one of the the stipulations is that any vacuum 00:08:21
enclosures have to be 50 feet from resident neighboring residential properties. So with Edgewater being on the West side of this 00:08:26
property. 00:08:31
That structure does need to get moved 50 feet away from that property line. And like I said, I think right now it's around 30 or 00:08:37
35 feet. So it's not too far from being within within our standards. 00:08:42
So, so that would be one of the conditions of approvals they submit updated site plan that shows that it meets that 50 feet away. 00:08:50
One option so I can show you the the. 00:08:56
What they'll need to do is submit an updated landscaping plan reflecting all vegetation and ground cover and that will be provided 00:09:36
to staff before the submission of a building permit. So before they can even start breaking ground or anything like that, we will 00:09:42
have to have that updated landscaping plan. Similar thing with that fence on on condition number #5 they just need to indicate the 00:09:48
fence location and the material. 00:09:54
On an updated landscaping plan for us to to do a review, our finance will be reviewed through separate permit. 00:10:01
They did provide plenty of bicycle parking, however they didn't give details on what type of racks they would be in. Vineyard City 00:10:10
code does require that they are the inverted use style, so we wanted to make sure that was a condition of approval. 00:10:16
And then the last thing was that our prescriptions of a sound study must be installed according to Vineyard zoning and municipal 00:10:23
code. 1 issue we had when looking at the Gru and allowing car washes is we want to make sure that sound wasn't going to be an 00:10:31
issue for Edgewater mostly. And so I believe they have done a sound study already and I can let him, I can let answer to that. 00:10:38
And I think that the study did indicate a few things that they would need to do the property to provide that kind of buffering. So 00:10:46
we just wanted to make sure that was included in the condition of approval that they filed the sound study so that it doesn't 00:10:51
create a new sense for Edgewater. 00:10:57
Is going to go and what kind of stuff? 00:11:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:09
And then the second option is if you feel like you want to get a better review, if you want to see a site plan with the updated 00:11:14
vacuum and how they're going to mitigate the sound, whether you know, they're a little bit more descriptive in in the how the 00:11:19
sounds study, what that requires. We can choose to continue this to the next Planning Commission meeting if you guys do want to do 00:11:25
that review on these changes. But I'll let Eliot come and answer you guys questions and then we can go from there real quick 00:11:31
before you go. 00:11:37
I know that on the properties north of this like the Top Golf property and stuff have a pathway along Geneva Rd. If they're not 00:11:43
going to be any kind of. So that's one issue just with Udot's expansion and Elliot might know a little bit more to that than I do. 00:11:51
But we can't make them improve the property that belongs to you that or that you thought is going to take over. 00:11:59
And so we aren't sure what that relationship is. I don't know if you know anything to that, Brian, but I mean, O'Reilly. 00:12:07
Doesn't have any kind of sidewalk or anything like that. If you look at it, it's just the driveway approach. And so we felt that 00:12:14
holding them to that standard of something that we don't even know where that road is going to go, how far to their property will 00:12:18
go. 00:12:22
Just wasn't the right thing to do. 00:12:27
I'll go open back up to the site plan here and then let Elliot come answer any questions you guys have. 00:12:30
If I quit zooming in. 00:12:38
Do we know what kind of pedestrian traffic there will be around the facility? 00:12:41
So they have. 00:12:46
Area. So I mean there isn't like any kind of sidewalk along that West side where Edgewater is at. There's no like gateway into 00:12:49
Edgewater at all. They have provided some some crosswalks that are either stamped concrete or raised to provide differentiation 00:12:57
for both the Diffie Lube and the Mr. Car Wash. So they have provided that. But once again, they just as of right now, there's no 00:13:04
sidewalk along Geneva Rd. So hopefully once that sidewalk does get put in place, this will tie in well with that. 00:13:11
I'm just wondering around the property itself, not talking about sidewalks, but what pedestrian traffic is anticipated around the 00:13:19
car wash? I think it might be better answering that than I do, so I'll let him. 00:13:25
And then you just say your name. 00:13:35
Thank you, Cash, and thank you all for your time tonight. My name is Elliott Smith with Terraform Companies. Do you need my 00:13:40
address for the record or no? OK, all right. Some places require address. 00:13:45
Christmas cards. Oh, if it's Christmas cards and that toilet papering, I'll give you my address. I got toilet paper last weekend. 00:13:50
Teenage daughters, anyway. 00:13:55
So, yeah, we we own these two properties. We brought them from X Development a few months ago. And Mr. Car Wash and Jiffy Lube are 00:14:02
a couple of tenants that we do quite a bit of work for across the country. Terraform, just quick introduction, we do single tenant 00:14:08
retail. So companies like this that have their own freestanding building, we find the site, we manage the whole process to get 00:14:14
them a new building. So these are two of our key clients. 00:14:20
And we're excited to be here. Mr. Powers is very excited to be here in Vineyard. And we understand that there's a need for these 00:14:26
type of facilities here. So we appreciate working with staff to this point. To be brief and touch on some of the things that Cash 00:14:32
brought up. First of all, the vacuum enclosure. So just to describe what that is and if you think you know any car washes that 00:14:37
you've gone to. 00:14:43
Some car wash companies have canopies that go over the vacuums. These ones don't. They have what are called vacuum pedestals, and 00:14:50
that's where the actual hose is. That's not very noisy and there's a lot of them right all along the in front of every parking 00:14:55
stall. 00:15:00
But the vacuum enclosure that you see there that we will relocate further to closer to Geneva Rd. so it meets that minimum 50 foot 00:15:06
requirement. That's the vacuum machine itself that generates noise. So pulling that further away to meet that 50 foot minimum 00:15:12
requirement. And it's called vacuum enclosure because it is enclosed with CMU material that matches the trash enclosure and the 00:15:19
CMU material that's on the building. So it's all a consistent look. 00:15:25
So that helps minimize some of the sound in the noisy part of these car washes. Are the dryer units at the exit of the tunnel. 00:15:32
Which we've designed it in a way where the exit is on Geneva Road to minimize that noise spillover. 00:15:39
So before I move on to the sound study, does that adequately address your question about the vacuum enclosure, Commissioner 00:15:47
Blackburn? 00:15:51
Included in the sound study. 00:15:55
It is but the biggest noise generator. 00:15:57
Is really comes from the tunnel, right, the dryer units. So we did the the sound study and I think I sent a copy of that to you, 00:16:03
right cash, I think you have a copy of that. And city minimum is 65 decibels at property line between a commercial and a 00:16:09
residential use. And so in order to do that the consultant that we hired to put the sound study together, we have put different 00:16:15
mitigation measures in place, different recommendations. 00:16:21
To keep that noise level at 65 decibels, we brought that up at DRC with staff. 00:16:28
I mean to let you know what it is, is basically an 8 foot tall wall all along that boundary up against Edgewater. Now in talking 00:16:36
with staff, the the problem that you run into there is I think current city code doesn't allow, I think it was actually a nine 00:16:43
foot wall, wasn't it? It was a nine foot wall. They allow up to 8. And so we are in process of working with staff and the sound 00:16:50
study consultant to come up with something that still keeps that sound. 00:16:58
At 65 decibels at property line, but with an 8 foot wall. So we don't have to get any kind of a variance to go to get around that 00:17:05
city code, right? So we're working with them on that. And probably what it will entail is putting some, you know, a wall right 00:17:11
outside, right in front of the tunnel where the cars enter the tunnel to get the noise down so that an 8 foot wall will be 00:17:17
sufficient to handle that noise. Or another thought I had, we could do an 8 foot wall and just burn it up so it actually gets 9 00:17:23
feet. 00:17:29
There we go from bottom to top is still 8, but it's really 9 to give that protection. But it's suffice to say we have a very 00:17:36
detailed sound study and we're working closely with staff to make sure that we a, comply with city code and B comply with the 00:17:43
recommendations in the sound study. So the vacuum enclosure will is incorporated into that because if you look at a certain page 00:17:49
on a sound stand here and look at those before but. 00:17:56
It has a color red that shows where the noisiest parts are coming from. And the vacuum enclosure and the tunnel entrance and exit 00:18:04
are the two noisiest spots as you would imagine, right? And so the wall that we would build would handle any of that noise from 00:18:10
the vacuum enclosure as well. 00:18:16
So does that. 00:18:23
Sufficiently address your questions about that. 00:18:25
Yeah, for sure. And we don't get a lot of complaints of noise, Right. Right. Don't have to look into it, Elliot. Sorry. This is 00:18:33
Brian. I'm city planner. Yeah, I don't think you can manipulate the grade underneath the wall to meet meet a height requirement, 00:18:39
unfortunately. So you're gonna have to find a work around. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's something we want to look into because there 00:18:46
are a bunch of utilities in that area back there and there's restrictions on how deep we can. 00:18:53
Build fence posts and things like that. So right, anyway, but we'll continue to work with staff to come up with something that 00:19:00
works within city code and and meets the the sound study requirements, not guidelines, but requirements to keep it at 65 decibels 00:19:06
of property line. 00:19:12
So that's a big part of what we're doing. I'm trying to think. 00:19:19
What is that comparable to in normal noise? If you did you? No, that's 100 decibels. Well it depends on how loud she yells. 50 to 00:19:24
65 decibels is about normal conversation volume according to Google. Decibels explain TLC electrical. 00:19:35
Yeah, we'll have to confirm that, but yeah. 00:19:48
You know, and obviously with this type of noise with the vacuums and. 00:19:52
The noise coming from the tunnel, it becomes more of an ambient noise, right? Like we're talking now, I could be, you know, 55 or 00:19:57
60 decibels, but it's, it's periodic, not constant, right? So it could just be a constant dull noise that you hear. 00:20:05
So you're welcome. 00:20:15
I had a question about the North End there. It's not part of your project, but eventually they'll be in and out. 00:20:18
Privileges for this property. I thought you meant In and Out Burger is kind of like whoa. So that's a big announcement. 00:20:26
An ingress egress, yes, yeah, that's already in place. So on the the current plat, there's an A cross access easement that goes 00:20:36
along the frontage of all of those lots. And I believe the wording on the plat states that that cross access area, the exact 00:20:43
location can be modified as each site is developed. OK. 00:20:50
So that that's what we're doing here, but we're actually pretty close to where the existing cross access easement is on the plat. 00:20:58
And just as a side note, X development is in process of doing an amended plat. I don't know if that comes before this body or not 00:21:05
or if it's even relevant. But if you look closely on these site plans, it shows the current lot line and the proposed lot line. So 00:21:12
we're switching, we're doing a lot line adjustment is really what it is for lots two and three, which are the lots that we own, 00:21:19
OK. So we were informed by accident that the lot line adjustment matches basically what you're proposing in the site plan. 00:21:25
We're just working still with Jamie, the city attorney, to see. 00:21:33
What the legal requirements for how we can approve that law on adjustment so? 00:21:38
There's there's new regulations coming from the state level to. 00:21:42
Regulate how those are approved either legislatively or if they can be approved administratively. And so we're trying to workout 00:21:47
those differences right now and, and what is the motivation. 00:21:51
So, so we purchased, so O'reilly's on Lot 1 where we purchased lots 2:00 and 3:00 and then we have an agreement with X Development 00:21:58
that we would also pick up an additional 5 feet of property from their lot 4. And that's in order to fit everything that you see 00:22:06
here. So when we did our site plan with Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash before we purchased the property and we went to Eric and as an 00:22:13
external and said, look, we need a little bit more property here. So that, that was. 00:22:21
The driver behind it and then adjusting a lot line between lot. So that's the lot line between lot 3 and four and then between lot 00:22:28
2 and three between the Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash. That's so that we can fit all of those tenant improvements on their. We're 00:22:35
right sizing the lot to fit the site plan. This is really what we're doing. So yeah. 00:22:41
Anything OK if you have any questions movement around the building itself other when I go to the car wash I don't get out right. 00:22:52
Pretty much that's it yeah. And we get that question quite a bit in different municipalities when we developed for Mr. Car Wash 00:22:59
and Jiffy Lube and the. 00:23:05
Provide a lot of, you know, pedestrian access, but the employees walk. 00:23:42
Their will up against the building. 00:23:48
They could correct, correct. And, and that that's provided with the sidewalks around the building and there's plenty of safe 00:23:51
pedestrian access points and ways for employees to get to the attendant Hut to get over to the point of sale system and to access 00:23:59
the equipment room and, and the offices that are inside the building so. 00:24:07
Could you speak a little bit to the ingress and egress into and out of the Arm U district off of Geneva Road and how that might 00:24:17
function in terms of traffic circulation and getting people in and out of that area through the existing access point that is 00:24:23
there for O'reilly's? And then I think there are? 00:24:30
More access points that are already approved with U dot as you go further north, right? 00:24:38
So right now those don't exist, but eventually when they do it'll offload some of the frozen onto. 00:24:45
This development, but we designed the site particularly with a car wash. 00:24:51
I don't wanna get ahead of myself because the Jiffy Lube is up next. But just as a quick side note, Jiffy Lube's don't generate a 00:24:57
ton of of traffic, not nearly What Car washes generate. A good Jiffy Lube has maybe 35 to 40 customers a day. So that's not a lot, 00:25:05
right? Especially if you, you know, think about that the AM hours, you know, between 8:00 and 9:00, noon between. 00:25:14
Lunchtime between noon and 1:00 and then evening between 5:00 and 6:00. Those are the peak times for Jiffy Lube. Pretty 00:25:23
predictable. 00:25:26
But car washes, they can generate quite a bit even on the weekends. Although I will as a side note, this does relate to your 00:25:29
question about traffic and flow with Mr. Car Wash and many other car wash companies, they have a monthly pass system. And one of 00:25:36
the drivers for that is to take away the significant peak volume time that you have. Because if you think about it from a customer 00:25:44
perspective, if you have a car wash pass, you're not just you're not going to wait until Saturday to go or wait until a. 00:25:51
Weather day to go, you'll just go whenever you want to go, right? And so that makes it so all of the customers are not going to 00:25:59
the car wash at the same time. So that helps a lot. So I get that question a lot. When are the peak times for a car wash? And if 00:26:05
you ask that to Mr. Car Wash direct based on their data from all of their locations, they'll tell you well, Saturdays are probably 00:26:11
Saturdays and Sundays are probably still the busiest days, but there isn't really a massive peak anymore. Obviously you get a 00:26:17
little bit of it when they first. 00:26:23
For the first two or three weeks, you'll see a lot of traffic, but that evens out pretty quickly. But whenever we design these car 00:26:29
wash sites, we always do it in a way to provide plenty of stacking. As you can see here, it would take a lot for car wash traffic 00:26:35
in the queue line to come anywhere close to backing up onto Geneva Rd. that they have to come, you know, in so that those are 00:26:42
three lanes 3. 00:26:48
Two lanes and I think each of those this side of the point of sale system. 00:26:55
We'll stack 12 cars. So right there you have 36 cars before you get into the point of sale and then you can stack probably 00:27:01
another, you know 8 or so after the point of sale before you get into the tunnel and then you can have 5 or 6 cars in the tunnel 00:27:08
at a time. So you're talking almost A50 car stack before that even gets out onto the shared access Rd. So there there's really no 00:27:14
risk of. 00:27:20
Backing up onto AAU, dot or a city or a city road, Yeah, anywhere here. So I don't know if that's what you were asking for 00:27:27
specifically. Brian, did that address the question as far as traffic and getting people in and out? Yeah, I just wanted to have 00:27:32
that conversation. 00:27:36
As far as cars exiting the car wash, it's not nearly the the load that you have entering a car wash because everybody has to wait 00:27:41
to get in. But when they get out, half the cars don't use the vacuums have to do, they're there for different periods of time. So 00:27:47
the the flow out is a trickle flow, not everybody there at the same time. 00:27:54
So how many lanes will there be coming in with just one, three, Yeah, 33 queuing lanes there. Yep. And then it it tapers to one 00:28:01
after, after the point of sale. 00:28:08
Area there and then Cash brought up that lane that they call that the bailout lane. And the reason for that is sometimes you get 00:28:18
bigger vehicles that they get through the point of sale and an employee notices that you can't go through, you got to get out or 00:28:23
they have an emergency and they have to leave. They just provide that as an option for them to get out if they don't want to go 00:28:28
through the tunnel for whatever reason. 00:28:33
Any other questions? 00:28:43
All right. From from a marketing point of view, this has nothing to do with why we're here, What differentiates Mr. Car Wash from? 00:28:45
Other competitors. 00:28:55
Well. 00:28:57
Is there every well, I'll say this, Mr. Car Wash is the only national publicly traded car wash company. So up until about 5 years 00:29:01
ago and I'll try to keep this brief. I could go on for 1/2 hour on this point, but I won't. 00:29:08
There, up until about 5 years ago, there weren't a whole lot of, you know, big car wash companies that have multiple locations 00:29:17
across multiple markets nationwide, right? So one of the big draws for Mr. Car Wash is they have a national presence. So if you 00:29:24
have the monthly pass, wherever you are in the country, if you have that pass with you, you can take your car and get it washed 00:29:31
using that monthly pass. So that's a benefit. 00:29:38
As far as? 00:29:46
The quality of the wash goes, you know, different car wash companies, you know, whether it's quick quack or would you wash or 00:29:47
whatever it is. They have different things that that they use to clean your car better provide different amenities. Mr. Car Wash, 00:29:53
in my opinion, just taking my car through their tunnel compared to others. I won't mention any names, but there's one I've gone to 00:29:59
that's really close to my house that I won't go to again because it never gets the dirt off my car. Mr. Car Wash does, so they 00:30:05
have. 00:30:11
The best technology out there as far as how it cleans your car and the other thing too. 00:30:18
They take a lot of pride in how clean their sights look. So you'll see some Mr. Car wash locations that they purchased from 00:30:26
previous cars companies. So a lot of their growth is organic through build a suit sites like this, but a lot of it is also from 00:30:33
acquiring previous car wash companies. Those you'll notice aren't this prototype. The buildings don't look like the elevations 00:30:39
that you saw, but on any new builds like this one. 00:30:46
You'll see it when we get finished building this. 00:30:53
They go over the top on landscaping, so you'll see variation with Birmingham and different grade changes. They put landscape 00:30:56
lighting in to keep it safe at night and it just looks better. They take really good care of their properties. There's a lot of 00:31:04
pride of ownership there and they're very strict about that. So from that standpoint alone, aesthetically. 00:31:12
You'll have a good looking building and a well kept and maintained site with Mr. Car Wash and. 00:31:21
They have the the balance sheet to make sure everything looks nice. I mean, right. So yeah, they're, they're they're not going 00:31:28
away anytime soon. This isn't a because I think right now nationwide, I think they have close to 500 locations and growing 00:31:36
rapidly. We're working on 13 Mr. Car Wash deals right now in five different states for them so. 00:31:43
They're expanding aggressively, they treat their customers right, They do a really good job. 00:31:52
And there are certain tenants, not just in the car wash world, but just generally speaking that we won't work with anymore because 00:31:58
their company culture is toxic and life is too short. And we've worked with those. Some are national, some large franchise tennis 00:32:03
was really the only type of tennis we work with. 00:32:09
And I can tell you that just their whole real estate team, everybody that we work with, they're just classy people. They're, 00:32:15
they're good people. They're company culture all the way through. It's just a, a good company to work with. How many employees at 00:32:22
any given time? It depends right on the time of day and, and what day of the week. But the maximum number of employees they have 00:32:28
here is 4/4 to five maybe. 00:32:34
At any given time, because they don't have employees that drive your car off, you drive your own car off. 00:32:41
You know when you're in the vacuum area. 00:32:47
So so again, I'm just thinking quite an opportunities for. 00:32:49
Yeah. 00:32:54
So 4 at a time, How many shifts during the day or that, I don't know. I, I can't answer that because I don't get too involved on 00:32:57
the operational side of things, so I'd hate to say something that's inaccurate. I don't know. All I know is that's the maximum of 00:33:02
employees on ship, but I would imagine a lot of those jobs are part time, so they may have 11:50 employees per store that just 00:33:08
rotate. 00:33:13
So. 00:33:19
Anything else? 00:33:22
OK. Any other questions from any other commissioners? Do I have a motion? 00:33:26
Yeah, I can make a motion. 00:33:33
Oh, you got it up here. OK, I'll just reference that. So I, I moved to approve the Mr. Car Wash as presented to as presented to us 00:33:37
tonight with the conditions listed by staff here on the screen. 00:33:43
Got a second all in favor, aye? 00:33:51
Move on, move on to yeah, 420. I was just going to make one comment just for the record, because I know that we've got an upcoming 00:33:56
discussion. So I think it's important to note that this is a permitted use in this location, not a conditional use. So that that's 00:34:03
an important note. And then the other one is, you know, with the sound studies, I would just be prepared for the moment it hits 66 00:34:10
decibels that they would be a notification to the. 00:34:16
You know, if there's any disgruntled residents or anything right there, I would imagine that they'll make sure that it stays at 65 00:34:24
or less. So just so you're aware. 00:34:28
Yeah, it is in their best interest to to mitigate that sound because it is the city code enforcement thing that we will take 00:34:33
serious if we do get complaints and we have our decibel reader that we can go back there and wave it around and make sure they're 00:34:38
in within code, OK. 00:34:43
Shut it off. Yeah. Is is the camera recording well enough that we can refer back to the motions that were on the screen? Yeah. And 00:34:51
I have it in the report too. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. 00:34:57
Moving on, I'm sorry, you can. 00:35:04
Yeah, go ahead. OK. So yeah, the second item here is very similar to the Jiffy Lube on the same site, similar landscaping. 00:35:06
I can show you those elevations. Actually. Let me get to this. 00:35:14
Page As far as like parking goes, they've provided adequate parking according to our code to accommodate for both customers and 00:35:17
employees. We don't allow them to like store vehicles or anything like that on site. 00:35:24
Let's see, gotta get to the right page here to show you the elevations. 00:35:33
I should have saved them differently, but so here you can see the elevations and once again you can see they're they're bringing 00:35:42
really well designed building. 00:35:46
Variations of of materials, of colors, of lots of glass and stone. 00:35:51
So and same thing with their like trash enclosure. They've provided a similar material. I think it's a brick material just makes 00:36:01
it look nice. We're not staring at a trash can all day. 00:36:07
That's that's a photometric plan that they've submitted to show that that none of the lights are spilling over. But go back to 00:36:15
the. 00:36:19
So I don't know if you guys have any separate questions about this that I can answer if you want Elliot to come and answer those 00:36:24
as well. 00:36:28
There's two days here. 00:36:34
Thank you. Yeah, there are 4. 00:36:39
As a man, just because I know differently, but I drive by it and I haven't stopped to have anything done. 00:36:41
Besides changing oil and lubricating, what other kinds of automotive services do they provide? Do I need to state my name again 00:36:48
for the record? Do you know who I am? OK, All right. 00:36:53
So you'll see a lot of Jiffy Lube that have been rebranded over the past four or five years. It says Jiffy Multicare. And so a lot 00:37:01
of automotive companies are going toward a total car carefully going quite total car care like a, a Les Schwab. Their primary 00:37:08
focus is still. 00:37:14
Quick Lube oil change services, but they do offer in addition to that tires and brakes and that's it. 00:37:21
And so we, yeah. And so sometimes we'll get, I'll just maybe address a couple of things that we get asked a lot. I'll, I'll be 00:37:28
brief here. What about the, the torque wrenches and things like that, right. So first of all, we've oriented the base in a way 00:37:34
where the, the open Bay doors are not facing residential. And those torque wrenches, if you look at the sound study, I mean, they 00:37:40
don't show up because that's just a very periodic, right? And it's not a constant all day long type of a thing. So from a noise 00:37:45
standpoint. 00:37:51
We've never had any complaints in probably. 00:37:58
4 digit loops we've developed over the past 12. 00:38:02
Yeah, never say never, right? 00:38:09
So from a noise standpoint, we don't have a lot of issues with the Jiffy Lube. The other question that we get a lot, are there any 00:38:12
underground storage tanks for any chemicals or materials like that? The answer is no. So no underground tanks. They are stored in 00:38:18
what's called the pit area, which is the area below where the cars pull over and the technicians work on the cars. So they have 00:38:24
above grade. 00:38:30
Bins, containers in the pit area, out of sight. They're not stored outside. And that's where the used oil goes. And then that 00:38:37
material is pumped from a truck off site. And so they remove that and then they sell the waste oil to different people who use 00:38:42
waste oil for different things. 00:38:48
No, they do have a hydraulic lift. So there are three pits and then one that is not open to the pit below and they do have a 00:38:56
hydraulic lift there. Yeah. Can you answer a question for me? I'm just trying to think back on a development review committee 00:39:01
meeting that we have. 00:39:05
When when you're performing work during the hours of operation, are the Bay doors supposed to be closed? Is that something that's 00:39:11
in the Gru to avoid sound and disturbances? Or are the Bay doors allowed to be opened? I don't remember. I don't remember from the 00:39:19
Jiffy Lube standard practice. In the colder months they leave the doors shut as much as they can, and even in the hot summer 00:39:26
months like this, they'll close it to keep it cool. So spring and fall they may leave them open all the time. 00:39:33
But I don't know what code requires. I don't remember on that. I could try to look into it while you continue your presentation. 00:39:43
Yeah, but whatever code requires, then they'll need to comply with that. 00:39:49
I really can't think of anything else other than this operator is a multi unit, multi market operator. I think they have 50 or 60 00:39:56
locations in three or four different markets throughout the country. So it's a prominent franchise within the Jiffy Lube system. 00:40:05
And Jiffy Lube is owned by Shell Oil, one of the largest companies in the world. So they have very stringent safety and 00:40:15
cleanliness standards as well, and they hold their franchisees to those standards. I. 00:40:21
So couple of good, you know, national tenants here that have a lot of pride of of ownership and and upkeeping their sites. 00:40:29
You know the Mr. Car Washes corporate, they don't franchise any of their locations, but this one, the Jiffy Lube, is a franchise 00:40:39
operated location. 00:40:43
And they're, they're good guys, these friends that we developed for a handful of different Jiffy franchisees. And this group is a 00:40:47
solid, solid group of people. And yet I was able to find my tug reference. So it's in the Jeremy code and the special purpose 00:40:54
zoning district. And let's say vehicle repay report, vehicle repair Bay doors shall be closed when repairs are happening in the 00:41:01
Bay. So that is a requirement. So that reduces further the the noise. 00:41:08
I mean it's. 00:41:17
It's the whole building youths or the youth size is operating in the building is light vehicle repair. So it I would say yes, OK. 00:41:19
We'll pass that on and. 00:41:32
But they know they need to comply with that. I think it was briefly mentioned before Akash mentioned it, but from a city code 00:41:35
standpoint, Light auto repair does not allow overnight parking in vehicles. Jiffy live as a center practice. They don't allow that 00:41:41
either, either in the Bay or out of the Bay. This isn't a place where customers come and leave their car for days on end while 00:41:47
they're working on an engine. It's quick loop. They're in and out. 00:41:54
There wouldn't be any overnight left bike to leave that there wouldn't be done in the morning. No, Jiffy Lube doesn't allow that. 00:42:01
They don't. They don't want the liability of a car or something happening to that vehicle. If you see a car there, because I have 00:42:06
a few times senior car, it's an employee vehicle that was left there for some reason. 00:42:11
But they do not allow customer vehicles to be parked anywhere on site, in or out of the base overnight. 00:42:16
Cool. Any other questions? 00:42:25
Do I have a motion? 00:42:29
Yeah. Were there any specific conditions? I saw there was some landscaping. Yeah. So just similar to the Mr. Car Wash because they 00:42:31
submitted their landscaping plan kind of as one. 00:42:36
It just right here, I can just go over each one of them once again and they'll pay any outstanding fees or red line corrections. 00:42:44
They're subject to our federal, state, local laws and updated landscaping plan reflecting all vegetation and ground cover shall be 00:42:50
provided to staff prior to submission of a building permit. A deputy defense shall be shown on the updated landscaping plan and a 00:42:56
material detail shall be submitted to staff for approval prior to submission of building permit. 00:43:03
Our signage will be reviewed through a separate permit. The bicycle racks will be the inverted use style. 00:43:10
And then if the sound study requires them to install anything that they'll, they'll do that as well. 00:43:15
Did the sound study. 00:43:23
Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. 00:43:28
Do we need to I can erase that motion? 00:43:34
OK. 00:43:41
All right. Do I have a motion? I do so make a motion that we approve the Jiffy Lube site plan. It's requested by Elliott Smith 00:43:44
with the proposed 6 conditions. Thanks, Tim. Do I have a second? 00:43:49
2nd thank you today, all in favor, Aye, All right. Buildings look awesome. Like we're excited to have them in. 00:43:56
Yeah. Thank you. 00:44:06
All right. Moving into the public hearing, do I have a motion to open up a public hearing? 00:44:08
And move to open up to a public hearing of a second all in favor, Aye, All right. 5.1 zoning text amendment. 00:44:14
Sorry guys, just let me get situated and moving around. 00:44:27
OK. 00:44:41
So the. 00:44:44
Tango. 00:44:46
The representatives are here to talk a little bit if you have any questions for them. What they're seeking is a zoning text 00:44:48
amendment to modify use use parameters of the zoning use table to change car wash facilities from a conditional accessory use 00:44:55
within the regional commercial zone to a permitted use to a permitted use. So right now, currently as as it stands, car washes can 00:45:03
be in the regional commercial district, but as an accessory to a primary use. 00:45:10
Most likely as like a a companion or an accessory used to like. 00:45:17
A gas station or a car dealership or a car dealership, something like that, but it can't be a standalone car wash facility. And so 00:45:22
that's what they're proposing to change it. 00:45:29
Let's see you. 00:45:37
Ryan, are you plugged in? 00:45:41
I'm just trying to, I think so. OK. I think so. So in in the 2017 update of the zoning ordinance, the City Council considered 00:45:43
future locations of car washes and determined that they wanted to limit them within the art, within the RC zone. 00:45:51
They wanted to put limitations on car washes within the RC zone. Currently the zoning ordinance allows for Stanmore alone car 00:46:00
washes and several commercial districts including the M district as a permitted use in the FY district as a conditional use. In 00:46:07
the regional mixed-use district also is a conditional use and now with the most recent change in the Geneva retail mixed-use 00:46:14
district as a permitted use, but with. 00:46:22
Additional development standards like like the ones approved tonight with the application for Mr. Car Wash. 00:46:30
So in general, the city has approximately 715 acres within Vineyard where you can apply for standalone car washes, which is quite 00:46:38
a bit of area. 00:46:42
If this request is approved for the zoning change. 00:46:49
An additional 160 acres, which is the size of the regional commercial district. 00:46:54
Would allow for standalone car washes which would see the majority of Geneva Rd. frontage property affected by. 00:46:59
An added influx of of car washes. 00:47:07
It's a feeling that we have already received. 00:47:11
Or sorry just let me racist. So we we have already received 2 applications along the new road for car washes. 00:47:17
The general plan does not expressly provide details regarding car wash facilities. 00:47:24
But it does provide general plan, general goals and comments. 00:47:31
I could read these off of. 00:47:39
The staff report so. 00:47:42
In terms of goals, um. 00:47:44
See the following strategies appeared to relate to the applicants request. 00:47:47
Goal #4 Encourage a pattern of growth that reflects the cities ability to efficiently provide necessary services and anticipates 00:47:52
the resource needs of future generations. I think this is coming out of the economic development portion of the general plan. 00:48:00
Our comments on that is the proposal would affect the entire RC zoning district of approximately 160 acres. The city already 00:48:08
contains 715 acres of land which allow for stand alone car wash facilities which I already stated. This next goal is ensure ensure 00:48:16
the city's long term fiscal health by taking measures to establish a larger tax base of both property and sales tax revenues. So 00:48:23
the applicant has indicated a desire to construct a car wash facility fronting. 00:48:30
Road South of 400 SA car wash will generate additional sales tax. So that's a statement or a fact that it would enhance or or aid 00:48:38
in the cities goal within the general plan to diversify our economic base and provide sales tax. So that's actually that's a good 00:48:46
that's a good proposal or nature of this proposal. 00:48:53
And Goal 5 establishes zoning that encourages strategic, accessible and centralized economic centers that will integrate 00:49:02
appropriately into the community. Currently, the zoning spreads out stand alone car wash facilities. This proposal would further 00:49:10
disperse car wash facilities throughout the city. The city may want to consider limiting car washes within a centralized area. 00:49:18
So here's our recommendation. Staff is recommending the Planning Commission hold the public hearing and consider comments from the 00:49:28
public and potential impacts of approving or denying the applicants request. And we have a list of potential motions. 00:49:35
And I guess I don't have to read these off, but what we do want to understand is how you guys feel about adding? 00:49:44
Additional areas, about 270 acres of potential spaces for more car washes. Understand that the impact that it could have on Geneva 00:49:53
Rd. with now with this would be 1/3 application for for car washes. And so those are the things that you have to consider. 00:50:03
And how that's going to change the nature of the new relationship, which will be increasingly a more important arterial that will 00:50:14
front right that current fronts Vineyard City and how it's going to work aesthetically and function. 00:50:19
So the the afternoon here, if he if he has comments or you have comments for them and this sort of stuff, what questions you might 00:50:26
have that I can answer for you. 00:50:30
Oh yeah, let's let the public. Oh yeah. If there's anybody from the public that would like to make a comment on this, please come 00:50:36
to the podium. 00:50:40
Since you're in. 00:50:44
All right. Then if you guys have any comments before we. So I just wanted to verify, so the RC zone looking at that public base 00:50:47
map, the cash has there, there's three distinct areas that are RC. Is that correct? 00:50:53
Yeah, let's pull it up. So we've been. 00:51:01
See 1230? There we go. OK, I'm pulling it up on the screen one second. 00:51:06
I. 00:51:13
Yeah. So the areas in the blue are are areas for light blue are areas for regional commercial. So ordinary here we have an area 00:51:25
here at the corner of 1600 and Geneva. 00:51:31
One of those we have a few areas here. 00:51:38
Commercial. So all along with any of the road and the very southernmost tip of Vineyard. 00:51:41
And I think where they're proposing to set up potentially would be along this intersection that 400 and Geneva. 00:51:47
So that Matthew show in the staff report that. 00:51:57
It looked like there was a proposed car wash just one lot South of right? So that is a car wash being proposed by. 00:52:01
By Pruitt Cash, what's the name of their company? I believe they're in working with shiny shell color and that's in the GRM unit 00:52:14
youth district. So that's a conditional use. Yeah, in that area, that's a conditional use, OK. 00:52:22
I mean. 00:52:31
How far? I mean you have to consider the. 00:52:34
The length of that all these are separated. 00:52:38
I know that's a lot in your opinion or too little I don't know. 00:52:42
Do we have any indication of of Orem's intent on their side? I mean, we're doing a lot of master planning of what's on our side of 00:52:49
Geneva. 00:52:52
You know, the ability or need for some of these duplicated businesses or if they're going to have like a office upfronting all of 00:52:57
it, is it going to be, or maybe they have 10 car washes, who knows. 00:53:03
Yeah, I don't know. I think they do increase to the point, increase the robustness of Geneva on the other side and into the 00:53:10
Geneva. 00:53:15
What they call Geneva Area Master Plan produced. It's like imagine Geneva Road or something like that. They have it online you can 00:53:21
look at to to see what they're planning on doing. 00:53:25
Yeah, I know that that increase commercial activity, whether or not that will permit car washes and I'm not sure. 00:53:31
I mean, looking at the map, some of the comments I have is that further South RC zone, you definitely start to get into more 00:53:40
residential areas that are less commercial. So so expanding the the farther S you go. You know, if there was a, a desire to have a 00:53:45
car wash there, you're going to be a much more single family residential that's around it, as opposed the zone where they're 00:53:51
saying that they would want it South of Forge itself. 00:53:57
That's obviously moving toward a more business type area anyway. Obviously they've torn down the residences and it's not like at 00:54:03
Edgewater where there's necessarily they're backing right up the houses, there's less concern from. 00:54:09
From that aspect in terms of the residential impact, but I think it's more of a discussion of you know what's the anticipated. 00:54:16
And going up in the worm, I, you know, I've seen on Saturdays, you have lots of car washes that are all backed up. I mean, there's 00:54:51
demands there and, and there may be a demand to have a car wash that they're not all right up there in the, the allowed area. 00:54:57
That's on that one. The the farther away. So can you move the cursor again? Yes, Sir. Where would you like it? It's right where 00:55:03
the cursor is at. Oh, yes, here. 00:55:09
Yeah. 00:55:17
Yeah. So, Chris, to talk about your comments, like I think, yeah, there's definitely demand. 00:55:19
But not not already. The problem is that not all areas within the regional commercial are all equal or surrounded by the same 00:55:26
types of land uses. Some are more appropriate than others. In this section. You know this. This parcel itself is a unique parcel 00:55:32
with different things that affect it. As opposed to going north all the way to 1600 where there's another regional commercial 00:55:37
area. 00:55:42
But the way that this. 00:55:49
Text amendment is proposed is to allow it. 00:55:52
In all areas of the regional commercial so that there's no element within that zoning text amendment that that centralized or 00:55:56
focuses on this more unique area or this partial. So it would open up the change to to the whole to the whole district is to the 00:56:04
other RC areas. Yeah. Is there a possibility because right now it's a it's a conditional. 00:56:13
An accessory use an accessory use to a primary use. And it does bother me the idea because I think some of these areas you 00:56:24
definitely you would not want it. We wouldn't say all RC. 00:56:28
Zones allow at least in my opinion, can you open it up to a conditional use and even narrow it down and have additional 00:56:33
requirements that not unnecessary this proposal. But if we did decide, yeah, this isn't a purpose some some some solid feedback of 00:56:39
maybe how to. 00:56:44
Resubmit, but I think a traditional use that you can take into account some of the nuances. Yeah. So with a conditional use, when 00:56:50
you open up to a conditional use, it's it's similar to an outright lead permitted use. 00:56:56
As long as they meet the specifications of what we've outlined in our zoning code, then they are allowed to proceed with that as 00:57:03
long as they meet those conditions. So it's it's not like you can make a judgement call and say, no, we don't want it. As long as 00:57:10
they meet those conditions that are stipulated within our zoning code, they can establish their their facility. So you're saying 00:57:18
change it from as an accessory use to a. 00:57:25
What would be the path if you want to say, to say we knew exactly where they wanted. It was like, yeah, you know, that actually 00:57:33
makes sense. You wouldn't want to open the alcohol RC plus the direction where they could say, well, just for this law, would that 00:57:40
be a new zone? Would it say, yeah, I think you could consider that. You can consider that which has happened in the past for 00:57:47
different uses. So that that is an option to to just consider the the creation of another zone. 00:57:53
My thoughts on this. 00:58:00
I'm hesitant to recommend a change to the regional commercial zone just because it does cover a lot of other areas. I wouldn't be 00:58:04
opposed to a specific applicant on just, you know, a couple acres of land requesting an actual rezone to one where it's a 00:58:11
permitted use. I think I'd be more open to that than changing it if if it's only going to impact this area because just South of 00:58:18
this, if you look at it, I mean, those are parking if I'm wrong. 00:58:26
Could potentially be half acre lot single family homes like the Cooks, the Cook farm, No, the green there. Yeah, yeah. 00:58:34
I'm sorry, this might be the cook fund. I might be. I might be saying the wrong thing here. I don't think I'm making too big of an 00:58:45
assumption that a new developer or resident with half acre lots would want a car wash in their backyard. 00:58:51
So I think we need to think about. 00:58:59
How this is planned out in a zone and I know it's not being proposed right there, but we have to assume that if anything's 00:59:01
permitted, you'll get all that same thing somewhere like that. That's, that's the mindset you have to be in is any of that could 00:59:07
come in, in any of the locations and there's places that are more appropriate for it than others. 00:59:12
And to your point, like you wanna make sure that it wasn't in some places For that reason, I wouldn't wanna change the RC zoning 00:59:19
text. I'd be more open to an applicant asking for an actual reason of their property. 00:59:25
Properties that are there, the businesses that are shown there. 00:59:33
They're enclosed. 00:59:36
I think he was a Northrop Grumman. Are they one of them? There's a mag, I think. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So they're all enclosed. There's 00:59:40
no outside that I've ever seen. No. It looks to be like all enclosed, mostly. And then a parking lot around the building. 00:59:48
Yeah, they're within the RC zone, yeah. 00:59:59
Maybe. Perhaps. 01:00:02
The positive of a rezone consideration is that like the JRMU, we could word the text within the ordinance to enhance the 01:00:06
development standards like, like the, like the development standards that Mister Car Wash is having to meet currently with sound 01:00:13
studies and you know, mitigation walls for sound and distances for some of the equipment and things like that. So that's, that's 01:00:21
one thing I could. 01:00:28
Considered. 01:00:36
Did you say we we have an idea of which lot they were actually looking to do the car wash on? Yeah, I think so. 01:00:38
It's the top two lots. 01:00:47
So the car wash would go here and then another, another use would go here. I mean you'd have substantial separation from, you know 01:00:55
any of those half acre possible lots too. You have the Lockheed facilities there. You there you would, but someone could come and 01:01:01
put one if you change this. 01:01:07
Yeah. That's why I'm saying I'm more open to that than changing all of the possibilities for all of the regional commercial. 01:01:13
My hesitancy with this is it's right next to a school, elementary school. 01:01:21
Yeah. And then they've got satellite units and. 01:01:29
You know, windows open, I just, yeah, I don't know, but that's gonna be a pretty substantial this. I'm here a couple 100 feet 01:01:32
probably from the school there if we'll put one next to the Edgewater homes 50 feet away, I think 3 or 400 feet from the school or 01:01:37
whatever. 01:01:42
I see, I see valuable here. 01:01:48
Would you guys like to give the applicant an opportunity to present get some statements? 01:01:53
Thank you. Connor Atkin, Technical. Carlos, one of the owners, yeah. 01:02:01
So then we found this location where it's a mile apart, kind of what you said. People come up from Provo, we'll hit this one. 01:02:37
People coming down from Orem will hit the Mr. essentially. So we did this to not be so close. But then I did just see right before 01:02:43
this meeting, shiny shell sign is up. So they're trying to go to the Jiffy Lube, the AutoZone, and then shiny shell. So we felt 01:02:49
like this was a better use, kind of some spread out. 01:02:55
And I was going to talk more about the zoning, but kind of what you guys have been saying, I think fits with more I would say to 01:03:02
Geneva Row. I mean, we live and die by traffic counts. 01:03:06
So I do understand we're opening up to 150 more acres in the RC and we have 740. But really besides the yard where Mr. is going on 01:03:11
where we're at, those are really the high traffic areas that a car wash can survive in. There is some regional commercial zones 01:03:16
that. 01:03:22
Just aren't good in and out egress ingress and so. 01:03:27
We've looked about everywhere and this is we feel like the best not to be right on top of a competitor. Have you looked on the 01:03:33
worm side? Do they allow that use on that side? You're saying on the can you go out? Yeah. 01:03:39
So they have A1 adult, can you go out? Can you go out So I can make sure Dina's what they've got to do before anything on the east 01:03:48
side of Vineyard here that all that industrial we did look down. 01:03:55
There's a Take 5, which is the old supersonic going in across by UVU and across the road. There's four acres there, but it's sold 01:04:03
to a gas station. They don't want a car wash. So really, I mean, we've looked all in this area and from what I can tell, ones 01:04:07
trying to go in South Provo down by the high school, that would be the closest one that I can tell on the West side of the 01:04:12
highway. 01:04:17
What's the tax revenue that comes from that? 01:04:23
So yeah, so everything, there's a misconception. You can Google say do car washes pay taxes in Utah? And it says no. The thing is 01:04:26
we don't pass it along to the residents because the law doesn't require it. But what we buy we have to pay tax on. So our initial 01:04:33
equipment is 1,000,000 1/2 bucks. You pay the 6 1/2 percent, you're about 80 grand on the initial. And then everything we buy of 01:04:41
course, ships there and we pay a tax. We usually anywhere between 701.2 million per location. 01:04:48
What's that you know? 01:04:56
50 to 80 grand a year in sales tax and the city gets about 20% of that. So I mean it's not huge, but where we're doing that other 01:04:58
lot that I showed you a Les Schwab's really hitting us up. But in the zoning does that work? We're kind of just we had talked in 01:05:04
the staffing Jayden had of what's a good use of Vineyard City would like to see here because we're getting hit up by everybody A 01:05:10
quick clack was looking at this. I mean we're the ones that just got it but. 01:05:17
It's not me or been another car wash. My question is. 01:05:24
Ride by land with plans that's not permitted and then ask for a change. So we haven't bought it yet. We're under contract in our 01:05:28
due diligence. And again, it's just looking at Vineyard City and the potential possibilities to be on Geneva or Mill and the 01:05:34
developers around it. And then as you said, I I've been in the industry, see that there's a need for two people coming from the 01:05:41
South, people coming from the north. But yeah. 01:05:48
So what are the benefits to Vineyard City to having you there? 01:05:56
What are the benefits we talked a little bit about? 01:06:01
As I say, I think the sales tax, I think the traffic it flows. I mean, Mr. didn't say it, but on a busy day, you'll wash 1200 cars 01:06:03
a day. So now with it being right next to Mr. Now you haven't 2400 cars. So if it is a snowy, dizzy day with that gold snow that 01:06:10
we had a year ago or whatever, that yellow snow that now it's. 01:06:16
Off I guess it's not it's no heavy traffic generators on busy days. So I think that's a benefit to spread it out more than just 01:06:24
put it in one, one district. I think from I mean we're doing one in two Willa and one thing we told them was just from a I mean I 01:06:30
guess you have a lot of restaurants, but just from that we don't have. 01:06:37
$150,000 jobs, but they're good starting jobs for kids. I used to work on a farm growing up and I said those are all getting into 01:06:45
houses, selling you a car wash to work at to kind of learn so. 01:06:49
One of my concerns and I don't know where the proposed egress etc. 01:06:55
That 400 S right there on that inner side is one of the craziest intersections we have in our area. 01:07:01
Especially in the summer, spring and fall with the parks right across. 01:07:09
There are times when there's no parking for a mile away from those parks. 01:07:13
Because the soccer fields are being used so heavily. 01:07:19
We have them parking last weekend. 01:07:23
Turn down into spring water. 01:07:26
They were walking a mile to get over to the soccer field. 01:07:30
That and and coming out of what used to be Vineyard Rd. Is that still Vineyard Rd. now? 01:07:34
Is it coming up today? 01:07:40
Traffic is backed up for hundreds of yards trying to get out on the 400. 01:07:42
And then you've got the light right there. 01:07:48
There's an accident on Geneva Rd. 01:07:50
Once a month. 01:07:54
At the overpass with people on 400 styles waiting for the railroad to open up under 3D. Concerned about adding the 1200 cars more 01:07:55
to what is already a congested area for traffic. 01:08:02
And I should add the 1200 cars, as I say, we live and die by traffic count. We're trying to just pull off what's already on that 01:08:10
road. It's not like 1200 people from American Fork Drive down to this location, right? So as far as your access question there as 01:08:17
far West and as far South as we can be away from the intersection on this specific piece if another use went in. 01:08:24
On the South on Geneva and West on 400. 01:08:32
Yeah, because of the park, Yeah. 01:08:39
It's just going to add to the congestion and even getting out of the car wash. 01:08:42
I don't know. 01:08:47
I drive that not every day, but. 01:08:49
Yeah, enough to know how congested that is right there. Really concerned. 01:08:52
Sorry, it's not Jayden right now. It's Connor. Connor. He's my project manager. Sorry. Connor. Yeah. 01:08:58
With you dot obviously owning Geneva, they require is that a 150 foot distance from the intersection to provide you guys an an 01:09:05
inlet like a curb cut to get in. 01:09:10
Other jobs? That does sound right. 01:09:17
And we would hit that. We're about 130 feet on just our site. So then you have the site, but there's AI believe there's an 01:09:20
entrance, a curb cut right here, right? Would they also require another 150 feet from that entry? Like can you have? 01:09:29
Two entries within. 01:09:38
An area that's less than 300, I think that's probably too close. They'd like to minimize if they can generally, yeah. So it may be 01:09:41
working with Locket or whatever you call it to. 01:09:46
Try to get a shared access there. 01:09:52
Yeah. 01:09:54
Another thing with the site, if I remember correctly, is that this would require an access easement, a road, a road entry on the 01:09:55
backside of of these lots to be able to access. 01:10:01
The car wash, is that correct? Connor, do you remember? Yeah, that's and we can hit that despite. Yeah. 01:10:08
Yeah, they're concerned and the scene, the city engineer is a little bit concerned about that as well. And I mean, I think it's 01:10:16
like cows, if that's a busy Rd. they're going to take the easier path, right. So that's more just up to escapes, but that ones 01:10:23
always busy. My assumption is people will figure it out and go out the easier way because I think one thing the scene was going to 01:10:31
recommend strongly is that we don't allow left turn entrances into that so that that would not even be an entry point. 01:10:38
Yeah, access into the car wash, Yeah, it'd be right in, right out only I don't know that we would be able to put like a central 01:10:46
medium to prohibit that access, but perhaps signage or something. I don't, I don't know what this seems solution to that would be, 01:10:52
but that would potentially increase a traffic backup congestion here. So when it's so close to the intersection, to these two 01:10:59
intersections. 01:11:06
Regardless of the tenant exactly. Yeah. 01:11:16
Generate traffic. 01:11:19
If it isn't. 01:11:22
Like 2 tenants just north of there. 01:11:23
Where there's no additional traffic, right or I'm sorry, just South of there? 01:11:26
Anything that's going to generate traffic, we've got to be very concerned about those two roads. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So it's a 01:11:33
there's a lot of facets to this, though. 01:11:38
And again, that's where at least in our industry are trying to pull off what's there, where I put a Outback Steakhouse here, 01:11:44
everybody may go there because they want to get a food place, right. So I don't feel like I'm going to pull away from Mr. because 01:11:48
they're taking the traffic up north, so. 01:11:53
And all that development down on Clay and Holdaway, that's going to be one of the main entrance and exit points. Yeah. So again, 01:11:59
no matter what, what use you also got to consider with that new development and other developments in the southern part of 01:12:08
Vineyard rising up and being developed, what do we want this entry point to look like? 01:12:17
This essentially becomes a main access into Vineyard. It already is. 01:12:25
So I don't know what. 01:12:30
What specific use, Connor, you think you guys might develop on this corner, but the car wash isn't that far from the corner and so 01:12:32
how will this affect? 01:12:37
The visual. 01:12:42
Value of that of that intersection and we have a building John, just to answer then one of you guys, can we have the building John 01:12:44
just north of the Lockheed to try to hide it. So if that's your centerpiece. And then I think Jayden said the meeting too, we're 01:12:50
open to really work car wash guys. We just happened to be under contract on the north side. If you want a fast food or if you want 01:12:56
whatever, we would go look for that use because one of our core values is community focused, trying to add to the community, not 01:13:02
detract. 01:13:08
So and it would seem just like we required with the Maverick station years to do it would seem like since that's going to be one 01:13:14
of the main instance points to Vineyard. We want signage that would say Vineyard on the outside walls or whatever goes on that 01:13:22
corner and make that part of our future conditions of any kind of. 01:13:29
Exactly. 01:13:37
And a sign that you can read not black letter. 01:13:39
True. 01:13:42
So. 01:13:45
You guys have any more questions for the applicant or does he have to have any other comments? 01:13:47
Your thoughts on what I had mentioned earlier about looking at an actual rezone rather than changing the text for all of these? I 01:13:53
know there's some I was just skimming through like the GRMU, I had actually A5 acre minimum, so maybe limited on some of those 01:14:00
ways in order to rezone. Just curious what your thoughts are. I mean, there's six as far as just my industry, there's six big 01:14:08
really people in Utah. Mr. is one of them that are. 01:14:15
And some of them are getting a little ignorant, like going 2 doors down from each other. So from a competitive standpoint, I think 01:14:23
it's smart that we're not just leaving it wide open to just say I'll go put 11 car washes right next to Mr. because you can't stop 01:14:29
me, right? I don't, we don't operate that way. But one going 2 doors down is a little little quick wax at 1/3 of a mile away from 01:14:35
us in Saint George. This is the in the state of Utah, this will be the closest. 01:14:41
To tunnel car washes proposed. So the reason I thought it was me, so that's why I said I'm going to just let that one go. 01:14:48
Do this one. But I guess he found another one so so I I actually like it. 01:14:54
OK, so you know Connor, Oh, sorry. I just wanted to let you know that the application requires 2 approvals from 2 separate bodies. 01:15:00
So you would submit your, your text for a new zone gets reviewed by staff and then it would go to the Planning Commission when 01:15:06
it's when it's been reviewed and ready for them to look at. 01:15:12
And then they would provide either recommendation for approval or recommendation for denial to the City Council. Yeah. And then 01:15:19
the City Council would make the final determination on whether or not that news on the district will stand. And there's no there's 01:15:26
no guarantee that it was. So is tonight like a table to go redo it sink. When Jayden came, it was like, hey, let's get the 01:15:32
accessory off of it. But as I guess that is what he's saying, let's, if you will, table it and not vote on it tonight and get. 01:15:38
A rezone, is that the? 01:15:45
Well, that's just me. That's right. Yeah, I guess that you're I guess the answer. Yeah, they get the answer. Yeah, I would lean 01:15:47
that way also that I think are doing a rezone would be the way to go about it. 01:15:53
Just so the reason is five acre. Well, yeah, but I mean you could do a text amendment to that and then rezone to So it's and 01:15:59
ultimately it'll be up to the, you know, the City Council on what they, you know, we can make recommendations to them. 01:16:05
And if I if I really want to dig my own grave, Saint George City quick quote came in at 5 and so they got all zoning off and they 01:16:13
had to do planned development so they can. 01:16:18
Take where it goes, not that I like cities getting in the business, but in a free enterprise, I mean that was what they did and we 01:16:22
they asked us and we said I think it's smart so that. 01:16:27
People can't just build on top of each other. Gives you guys a little bit more development. 01:16:33
Plan development, commercial. So then they have conditions with the exact same uses too close to each other, correct? Because you 01:16:38
can dictate with that. But see two like it was, they ask the competitors say please don't go. Then they said what can you do? And 01:16:44
you can't do anything right at that point. If it's in the zone, you can't do anything. 01:16:49
So, so explain to me the benefits to us in the city in not pursuing what's being proposed and going to a complete rezoning of a 01:16:56
parcel my. 01:17:01
My concern with changing the regional commercial zoning text for one use case is that it changes it for all of those hundreds of 01:17:06
acres. Yeah. When that's not necessarily what the intent in this instance is to for one car wash in this corner. Whether you're 01:17:13
supportive of that or not, you know, that's your decision. But like that, that's the intent of this. But it would have wider 01:17:21
reaching if we do it this way, you could end up with 10 car washes Exactly. And you don't want. 01:17:28
Nobody wants a 10, yeah. 01:17:36
The impacts, potential impact on the neighbor road and areas in north of Vineyard, north of 800 N where we're wanting to do master 01:17:39
planning. And granted with that master planning, the zone will probably change, but if new users come into it, then that might 01:17:45
restrict, you know, what we could do with the master plan. 01:17:52
This is more for staff. What what did we do in Planning Commission that allow for two car washes next to a residential area to be 01:18:04
OK? 01:18:10
So with that, because I'm holding Fury, Yeah. So with the JEREM, you remember they had all the the additional standards for the 01:18:17
light vehicle repair stations, which we have some discussions about over a series of meetings. And we eventually arrived at at the 01:18:24
approval of the GMU, which would then help us to mitigate some of the impacts. And then with the regional mixed-use, that was a 01:18:30
zone that was already established. 01:18:37
And that has a specific set of conditions. 01:18:45
Not as much or in depth as the development standards within the Gru, but still some conditions that would help mitigate. But I 01:18:48
would say that the GMU is definitely a more tighter more. We have a little more say, we had a little more say in in how that those 01:18:54
uses would build out. 01:19:00
So. 01:19:07
So where, where do we make it so we never have two car washes right next to my house again. So also in the GRMU it does only 01:19:09
permit car washes I think in the bottom 5 parcels of that zone. So it does really limit how many can be in on at the GRMU. But 01:19:18
other than that we just have to look at changing the the use of in the RMU. 01:19:27
Yeah, the car wash used enough, yeah. Can we do that like. 01:19:37
Very soon because that's could you, could you say that again like changing, changing what? 01:19:42
So, yeah, and then in order to like prevent the RMU from building out more car washes, so it's like the the pie shaped piece of 01:19:48
property near our other office, they wanted to build car washes right, right there, right now they could with the conditional use 01:19:54
permit. But if we did go through and change our code to not allow that to make it a not permitted use or we could say that they 01:20:00
have to be a minimum distance from each other. 01:20:06
Within, even within the RMU, we couldn't do that if they've submitted an application, right, Right. 01:20:12
There is no other application. Yeah, because the other car wash has submitted an official site plan. We can't go back now and say 01:20:18
this is not a permitted use. So we do have to process it as a as they have the rights. Yeah, as a vessel application. I could just 01:20:24
be mad, which I understand. 01:20:29
How mad? You don't understand but I don't want this to. You're fine. I like your location and I told the developer that. 01:20:36
So I like the idea of rezoning it. That will allow us a lot more discussion again to make sure like all the criteria and that are 01:20:51
followed and established and will allow it to just go crazy. Like apparently they went crazy in these five lots we allowed. 01:21:00
And. 01:21:10
Yeah. So how soon can we get some language on distance within this district? 01:21:13
Between. 01:21:20
I don't know. 01:21:22
Loud, noisy things that want to be built. 01:21:25
And that's a specific use case. We just have to be very careful when we've created a right for somebody to do something I used and 01:21:58
then and then when we take because it is we are taking away a right. So we want to consider that very carefully of how we do that 01:22:06
planning exactly. So as we do that, it will be in full consideration of quality of life because the place I live in cost less than 01:22:13
the place everyone else lives in doesn't make my quality of life less. 01:22:20
Right. So that's, I want to get to work on that pretty soon. Yeah, Tim, we're happy to look at. 01:22:29
Other 3 lots to be filled with three more car washes right right yeah and this one turned out interesting because. 01:22:39
They're two separate zones now and so it might have been coincidental, but. 01:22:47
Yeah, we always do have to think about those things. And we also have to like Chris was saying, we have to be careful that we 01:22:52
don't regulate a land use or district or partial unreasonably. Because then we could step on into the territory of like a 01:22:59
regulatory taking, which is where we have reduced their rights to develop land in a way that has been permitted. And then we buy 01:23:07
our own potentially arbitrary language. We we reduce their. 01:23:14
The value of their properties balance this while also. 01:23:22
We obviously need the sales tax for quality of life citizens, but do we need it so bad that the rest of their life is terrible? I 01:23:26
mean. 01:23:31
Going back on what I think we left counter with that was recommended that perhaps you pursue a rezoning totally of that section 01:23:39
versus. 01:23:44
What we've been talking about. 01:23:51
I'm and I'm looking at from your perspective, I'm not sure what the benefit for him would be if we're still concerned about the 01:23:53
traffic. 01:23:57
Because if if we go through the efforts of rezoning it to permit the use there and not open it up to the rest of our RC for 01:24:02
similar kinds of of tenants. 01:24:08
We still have the issue of 400 S in Geneva and all of that, which I would find it very hard to improve anything is going to add 01:24:15
traffic there even if we rezoned it to allow that kind of business to be there. So I guess I'm not sure what the benefit is to 01:24:21
him. 01:24:27
It's permitted for a lot of different things that could be more traffic or worse traffic. 01:24:35
A drive through a gas station I think would be there. Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot, there's a big list. And when I say 01:24:43
1200, that's on the gold snow day, right? We tried 4 to 500 so and we're trying to pull the traffic, but I think there's a storage 01:24:49
units the guys were buying it from tried storage units here before. 01:24:55
Because of the gateway to the city I think that they said wasn't approved. So yeah, I get it. You got to look at the future. And 01:25:01
in essence, Tim, I think at that point it's it's on the applicant and their company to. 01:25:07
Basically, show us maybe through traffic impact studies and through how their code and standards are worded and how they plan to 01:25:14
mitigate traffic impacts and things like that. And so until you guys are not satisfied by their proposal, you don't have to 01:25:20
recommend an approval right to the City Council. 01:25:27
So they have to come back with a with a solid plan. 01:25:34
Yeah. What kind of traffic the new development is going to put on that road? But we know it's going to be heavy and and something 01:25:38
as far as traffic goes, something that we could do for the future of this property if I am not mistaken, as we could make it so 01:25:45
that only traffic could go in on 400 S but not come out on 400 S, right. 01:25:52
Just a one way. Yeah, I've seen that before. Just A1 lane. Yeah. And then we could even make it. I know that they're working on 01:26:01
that intersection there, both of the intersections. And I would not be surprised to see a concrete barrier go in. So you couldn't 01:26:07
make a left turn into there. I mean, as far as traffic goes, that would, I wouldn't have any issues if there was if that was the 01:26:13
case. 01:26:19
You know it's it's raised up there in the corner anyway, Huge with a tunnel. 01:26:27
But yeah, I mean, as far as traffic concerns and stuff, those are things that we can we can deal with in the future. But I I do 01:26:33
think that it needs to be a rezone because otherwise we'd be getting into nitty gritty of stuff that doesn't even exist yet as far 01:26:38
as the Northern RC district. 01:26:43
When you come back, I'm going to be saying the same thing. I would keep in mind, Tim, that like right now there could be you could 01:26:51
have like a fitness center going there that would have a ton of traffic or. 01:26:58
Restaurant or drive through, I mean all that is permitted right now like no question asked they bring it in and it's like. 01:27:05
It's permitted, right? Like there's not really a way to say like, no, we don't want that there. I mean, you can ask for traffic 01:27:12
studies, but I think that this opens up a bigger question where like, I think step one, yeah, we need to give you some clear 01:27:18
guidance on how to move forward. But then too, I think we should also bring up some of these concerns at gateway to the cities, 01:27:25
our gateways into the city, because there's only, what, four of them or something like that. 01:27:31
For us in the City Council to think about that because. 01:27:38
If it's permitted here, you can't really gripe about it because we set the rules, right? Yeah. And if we're not OK with the rules, 01:27:42
we've set them. We need to address those. And the only, the only reason I could see this being an issue really is. 01:27:48
Tax base. 01:27:54
Those other things, gyms or. 01:27:57
Like a restaurant or something they bring in more sales tax. 01:28:01
And I have a lot of, I have a lot of people wanting to go there and that's I guess us saying what do you guys want to go there? I 01:28:36
mean, if you put a cookie place there next to your car wash. 01:28:42
We'll get one on each side. Yeah. So I think the general consensus is a rezone, I think, is the way to go with something like 01:28:49
this. Can I ask what I mean, what would you go for? I guess what, what zone? What zone so I can get steered in the right 01:28:56
direction? 01:29:02
Or what, what? It'd be a new zone. It'd be a brand new zone. Yeah, it'd be a new zone that does not exist in Tennessee. But it 01:29:09
could be based off of a similar zone that, that could facilitate your, your needs similar to like the DRMU. You could look at that 01:29:16
and kind of see what they've done in the GRMU and, and create like a, a similar petition. Or you can come back with something 01:29:22
entirely your own, you know? 01:29:28
When I don't want to either get in because I know the city's been hesitant about having, you know, a zone for every parcel, right. 01:29:36
Like that. Yeah, that's, that's kind of ridiculous too. So not the purpose of zoning either, right. Yeah. So if, if there is a 01:29:43
better way to go about this, I I would like to give give that good advice like GRMU, which where we just approved another site 01:29:50
plan. The only reason that this couldn't be my understanding is it doesn't meet the five acre requirement. 01:29:57
Well, that that zoning text could be amended potentially to be 2 1/2 acres or whatever. I don't know what it might be and then the 01:30:05
reason to this, but. 01:30:09
I don't want to make this more complicated than it needs to be. My only concern was I don't want to open this up. I don't want to 01:30:14
change a good chunk of the city's zoning for one use case. And and also a consideration if this gets rezoned as the southern and 01:30:21
northern properties, we would have more say as what goes in on the northern property versus the RC. Yeah, yeah. 01:30:29
But today you're not going to tell me what that is. 01:30:38
That's like staff will give you more of an idea than yeah, yeah, we can Happy to work closely with your planner with the rest for 01:30:42
sure. It'll be yeah, it could be a lot of convictions. 01:30:50
Yeah, Yeah. So the direction the DRMU were 2.42 acres is what This site is, Yeah. So 2 acres plus or whatever to be to be GRE 01:30:58
considered. 01:31:04
I don't know. What are your thoughts on that? No. Yeah, you can. Yeah. Like I said, you can either create new zone. You can apply 01:31:13
for a reason to DRMU. I think I can't. I honestly can't think of any other options. Yeah. So apply for the reason and it comes 01:31:19
back through staff, then Planning Commission and City Council of the voting body. With the Jeremy though, it would have to be a 01:31:26
text amendment on the zoning because of the five acres. If I'm writing that correctly then yeah, Right. Right. 01:31:32
Yeah. And the GRM, you also have like a boundary map with legal definition of where it is. So we have to make that change as well. 01:31:39
There's quite a bit of work. 01:31:47
The new. 01:31:50
I don't know for sure. 01:31:52
To make final calls on what the best route for them. And honestly, Stephanie, even if you come up with a, a different zoning text 01:31:55
amendment that doesn't just permit it everywhere. I I would be open to that as well, right. 01:32:02
It's just a good chunk of the city that would open it up to a use that was not previously. I mean, we could limit a specific space 01:32:10
again. 01:32:14
Right. So keep the RCM and his limit to spaces. You could can you do that? You could limit. 01:32:19
Well, explain that Bryce limit limited. I guess the JMU is is the zone itself is limited to a specific space, so I guess that 01:32:26
wouldn't be. 01:32:30
I guess I wouldn't be. I mean, I'm sure we could restrict it down so that. 01:32:37
It was difficult to put a car wash anywhere else but. 01:32:41
And we don't know what that well like. Similar to how we have it like as an accessory use right now, how it is pretty restricted. 01:32:47
We could find another way to. 01:32:51
Do that work would allow it in this lot, but still restrict it up north, increase the conditions, increase the conditions of 01:32:56
approval, tighten up the conditions. So but that would keep it as RC, but just change the but we can work with Morgan on that kind 01:33:01
of language or see what would be the best route forward. 01:33:06
Is this something that the City Council could also discuss and provide guidance on to? Because, yeah, I don't want to guess. Yeah, 01:33:12
yeah. I mean, tonight you're making different recommendations. So no matter what happens, if you choose to recommend approval or 01:33:17
denial, it will go to City Council next week. 01:33:23
For them to discuss as well so they could just come out and say we are OK with allowing car washes in and. 01:33:28
What we're recommending and Morgan will be there as well. 01:33:36
Morgan wasn't here tonight. 01:33:46
So it's going next week regardless, and you're if you want us to vote on it, yeah. 01:33:51
But if it votes, does it? I guess what you're saying is, so I get direction from the City Council. So if I made a motion to deny 01:33:56
this particular ordinance and make a recommendation that you look at a rezone, the City Council next week would look at this. And 01:34:01
they could look at this very same ordinance and say even though the Planning Commission denied that, we actually are OK with that 01:34:07
and we want to move forward, that that's that's potential. Or they could simply agree with our recommendation, which is why you 01:34:12
recommend it. 01:34:17
For sure. And we'll write a staff report of like the thoughts and discussions that we had in this meeting and share that to the 01:34:24
City Council, so, OK. 01:34:28
OK. Do I have a motion to close it? I'm hearing on this. 01:34:36
I move to close public hearing. I have a second. A second. All in favor, Aye. All right. Does somebody want to make a motion on 01:34:40
this? Do you have any proposed that you can show? Yeah, we do. Let's put them up on the screen. 01:34:45
Can you see those clearly? Yes. 01:35:02
I can't see and also these should be updated to say recommendation for approval, not motion to approve. 01:35:06
On each of them. 01:35:14
Got it. I'm willing to make a recommendation. 01:35:16
I make a motion to recommend denying Ordinance 2216 to modify the regional commercial district changing car wash facilities to a 01:35:20
permitted use. 01:35:24
Reason being to not change it for all of regional commercial and recommend that the applicant pursue a path to rezone this 01:35:31
property for so it's permitted use that doesn't impact such a large portion of the city. 01:35:38
Do I have a second second up? 01:35:46
All in favor, aye. All right. 01:35:48
Thank you. 01:35:52
Thanks, Connor. 01:35:55
She's gonna do see. Yeah, we'll see it. City Council moving to 5.2 moderate income housing plan update with finance City general 01:35:56
plan. 01:36:00
All right. One second guys. And this is also once going to public hearings, we will need to open it up to I do have a motion. 01:36:06
I move to open a public hearing. Do I have a second? All in favor, aye. 01:36:13
OK. 01:36:20
Thanks guys. That was an interesting one. Yeah, it was good, good conversation. OK, so the Planning Commission had work sessions 01:36:22
on August the 3rd and August 17th to discuss our moderate income housing plan and the changes that the state wants us to make. So 01:36:30
through House Bill 462, municipalities of our class, which is a class of 4th class, cities of the 4th class, so under 30,000. 01:36:39
Maximum population were required to update our Our Modern Income Housing Plan by October the 1st. 01:36:48
Most cities in our class will require that we adopt three of the recommended strategies within 10 Dash 9A, Dash 403. But because 01:36:57
we now have a fixed railway gateway station, now we're required to have to adopt four and create a five year implementation plan 01:37:05
for those. 01:37:13
So we're we're required by state code to adopt. 01:37:22
Strategy V within within that state code 10,009, Dash 43, which is to develop and adopt A stationary plan. So that has to be 01:37:27
adopted into our modern income housing plan, and we must also include a flexible and realistic implementation plan to bring the 01:37:36
strategies that we're recommending tonight to life over the next five years. Vineyard City must submit these updates. 01:37:45
To the Department of Workforce Services by October the 1st, 2022. 01:37:54
And so we're doing this week is. 01:37:59
We provided a staff report. You guys have had the chance to analyze some of the strategies that we've. 01:38:03
Recommended for adoption and their implementation plan. And so we're just here to have another discussion. And so yes, think we 01:38:08
can look at each of the strategies, have discussion about them. 01:38:13
If you have any questions or you can, if you're ready to make a motion of approval, we can do that as well. 01:38:19
I'd like to discuss I. 01:38:26
And then blend these regulations to allow for single room occupancy developments. 01:38:30
OK. What is your question? 01:38:35
So So what I found between the cities of Portland and Seattle is Seattle allows for. 01:38:38
Single room occupancy developments. 01:38:48
Seattle has become. 01:38:52
Less and less family friendly. 01:38:55
Just by virtue of developers really only make them. 01:38:58
Single use development, focusing heavily on those, it's a favorite. They're making a lot of money. 01:39:02
But in Portland, they may they. 01:39:09
Disallowed single room occupancy developments and the increase of the number of families who live in Portland. 01:39:14
It's it's been. 01:39:25
Notable I don't have numbers. 01:39:28
Right. So I'd recommend looking at at those the decline of families living in Seattle and the increase of families living in 01:39:30
downtown Portland because. 01:39:35
Because we I. 01:39:40
Have the family and I want to live in downtown veneer. I don't want to feel like I have to choose because I can only afford a 01:39:44
single room unit for me and my four children and then I'm disallowed to live in downtown Vineyard by virtue of. 01:39:51
I don't know. 01:40:00
Availability, right? Somewhere I could live. 01:40:02
I also, I, I feel like we want to encourage families to live in our downtown to allow for that diversity of population. 01:40:07
We we don't want, we don't want to find ourselves with a whole lot of single room occupancies. 01:40:18
And, umm. 01:40:27
Just I don't know. I don't know where I was going with that. We don't want to find ourselves in that situation for we where our 01:40:30
hands are so tied. 01:40:34
To what our population can be, right, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely recommending strike that one 01:40:38
or don't pursue that one. I am recommending not to pursue that one that specific strategy, that specific 1. So just to just to let 01:40:44
you know. So we're actually going through some site plan approvals for the downtown. 01:40:51
For blocks five and six of the venue downtown and they they have provided a mix of right of occupancy types. So we have single, 01:40:58
single room development. We have townhouses, stacked townhouses. We have apartments that are 1-2 and three bedroom. But I totally 01:41:07
understand your concern like like how, how do we mitigate that to where that doesn't become the the preferred? 01:41:16
Development Housing development in Vineyard. 01:41:25
Where it might be some sort of. 01:41:29
Language that infers it needs to be smaller percentage of the development they have. 01:41:33
With a heavy focus on two plus bedrooms. 01:41:40
Gotcha. 01:41:47
Would you like to make a comment to state your name and? 01:41:48
My name is Tyler Harrison. I'm a resident here. Just wanted to kind of head on what Brian had said. 01:41:52
Well, I, I at some point would like to have a family as well. I'm married as of now, we don't have any kids or anything like that. 01:41:59
And. 01:42:04
A lot of the housing options, at least for purchase in the in the Vineyard area are larger homes and, and are kind of out of our 01:42:09
price range. So having a mix where you can have a family and but also can be a student or just a married couple without kids, 01:42:16
having that ability to kind of not have to go too far out as you move up into growing. I think it'd be great to have those options 01:42:23
instead of and it looks like they're not at least this. 01:42:29
Point I doesn't seem to be trying to. 01:42:37
It's trying to allow for those, whereas a lot of places don't have that option at all. 01:42:41
I feel we found that's a pretty troublesome in Utah County. 01:42:47
Overall, it's kind of hard to find places that are not single family homes. So I would like to see that mix. Yeah. 01:42:52
Yeah. And as far as this, it doesn't mean we have to allow it for all of Vineyard. Like we can still restrict it to certain areas. 01:43:01
I think the bigger issue is you can't buy a single. You can't buy a single room anywhere. Like you have to rent Everything 01:43:11
Everywhere, which makes it hard for affordable housing because you can't buy anything that's affordable. It'd be cool to be able 01:43:18
to buy a studio apartment and sell it when you want to move up, but. 01:43:25
That we can't restrict those kinds of things. It would be cool though. 01:43:33
I I do have to say in kind of concerns that having a bunch of single room occupancy can cause a lot of problems, especially here 01:43:40
in Vineyard with parking. 01:43:45
There's major issues, and I think that we need to deal with the parking issues sooner than later because the more we kind of put 01:43:53
it off, the more people expect that the city owes them parking. 01:43:58
Umm And we're seeing that in different areas in the city where one apartment, no matter how many bedrooms are in it, will have 6 01:44:05
students with six cars where they're really only allotted 1 1/2 cars. So I think that we need to tackle parking, like the single 01:44:14
room occupancy thing can be fine if it's in specific areas and if we're handling parking, why it ought to be handled. 01:44:23
Right. You can also say that. I'm just going to say, Brian, you provided us with a list of. 01:44:33
Of. 01:44:40
Things that the city is already doing or was going to do. I think there were six or seven of those items. 01:44:42
These are the same ones. 01:44:50
Because. 01:44:56
I felt that most of them looked OK to continue to pursue, you know, and I'm not so sure about the single room ones, but. 01:44:58
Unfortunately, I left mother's home that I had marked up, so I just didn't know that they were the same ones. But also had we not 01:45:09
asked for a definition of what moderate income housing is, a monetary definition of some kind so that we would have a feel of it 01:45:15
seemed like in one of our previous meetings we had. 01:45:22
Asked for that. Yes, Sir. I believe that was provided last time in a slide show. This somebody pull it up. In our last meeting, we 01:45:29
didn't get to go through this. 01:45:34
So we would push that. Yeah, OK, that happens. I created a slideshow. Never, never presented the slideshow. Yes, that's right. 01:45:40
That's right. So I have my papers going to look at them. 01:45:45
I'm sorry, I have my. 01:45:51
List if you wanted to look at that. 01:45:53
Brian, while you're pulling that up, I think, I think along what Tim was saying, some of these things I feel like we've already 01:45:58
have pretty well in motion. 01:46:02
Like create or allow for reduced and reduced regulation related to internal or detached accessory dwelling units in residential 01:46:08
zones. I know that. I mean, there's entire. 01:46:12
Neighborhoods that have accessory dwelling units that even if that's not what people want initially, I mean that zoning allowed 01:46:18
for some of that. There's also zone or rezone for higher density or moderate income residential development and commercial and 01:46:25
mixed-use zones near major transit investment corridors and everything around the train station I feel like would would meet that. 01:46:31
And so maybe this is where Tim was going to is some of these things that were already. 01:46:38
Doing pretty well or in motion. Can we take those and run with them? Yeah. 01:46:45
'Cause we're constantly working on those initiatives. So there's a kind of like low hanging fruit in a way. And is this not, is 01:46:50
the single room occupancy not something that we're currently already doing? We're allowing it, I guess. I mean, we have it in the 01:46:56
downtown. So it's kind of we could expand it to other areas. Yeah. So it's already a thing that's happening. It's we're already 01:47:02
doing it. Right, right. It just, it just depends on because we also need a five year plan for each of these. So how those will 01:47:08
evolve. 01:47:14
Five years is something that we need to begin to give shape to. I is more like, maybe that's not something we're going to focus on 01:47:20
making important to us, if that makes sense. 01:47:26
It's definitely, yeah, I mean, just looking online, I haven't looked a lot into single use occupancy, but but there's some 01:47:33
progressive models out there where you you could encode. If we're saying, hey, this is something we're going to do, we could have 01:47:39
our Vineyard vision. There's models out there of ownership models where, you know, it's, it's a shared ownership of the building 01:47:45
they're building. HOA is maybe that's the route to pursue it where you avoid some of the issues that other cities have had by. 01:47:51
You know, they get lower housing options, but they're bought in, they own it, and it's banished as a collapse. We can make it a a 01:47:57
conditional use. Yeah. So we could use zoning to make it our flavor of it. But we, you know, have our mix in Utah. That's right. 01:48:04
Poor vineyard. Yeah, If we can have some kind of incentives like we talked about reducing. 01:48:10
I'm trying to find it again. 01:48:17
Impact fees or some of the other ones, if it could be possible for people to like you said have some kind of agreement where they 01:48:21
can purchase something like that, I think that that would be hugely beneficial if people could purchase studio apartments or if 01:48:27
people could purchase one bedroom apartments. I think that would right. I think that if I don't remember like 100%, but I think in 01:48:34
the downtown code you have to have like a certain. 01:48:40
Percentage, like only a certain percentage of those housing types. So you reach a maximum like let's say the the single, single 01:48:47
occupant can only be 20% of your entire building. Then the two room and the three room. I'd have to look back on that. But I mean, 01:48:52
that's something we could do as well, even if it doesn't currently exist in the promote more ownership. I think we're off work, 01:48:57
you know, I mean, that could be a conditional thing of, you know, if a building exceeds an ownership percentage, you would allow 01:49:02
more. 01:49:07
And I think you're, you're getting more of the permanent residence that you want as opposed to everything else that's being 01:49:13
rental. 01:49:16
As long as it was ownership of like a first time purchase, first time home buyer kind of thing, owner occupied, yeah, I don't 01:49:19
know. I don't see a negative like what do you, what do you see as a negative to that? 01:49:26
As as long as I don't, I don't like the idea of being like, Oh yeah, you can have more of these one bedroom studio things because 01:49:35
then they're going to keep pushing. 01:49:39
As we saw today. 01:49:45
So. 01:49:49
If we. 01:49:53
Can just maintain. 01:49:55
They look like a smaller percentage of. 01:49:58
Units within each building being these studios and one letters were not eliminating them. I don't think I was suggesting that 01:50:04
earlier either. 01:50:09
But I don't think creating extra of these is going to benefit our city as a whole, as a place for people. Stay where people. 01:50:14
Can move up within if all of the options they're presented with are the same things because we're going to see these two and three 01:50:27
bedrooms. 01:50:31
Remaining occupied with families for decades. 01:50:36
And these single bedrooms that they're going to float through a little bit faster and where are they going to go? Another single 01:50:40
bedroom? No. Well, I think if you promoted it to an ownership model, it wouldn't transition through so much. I mean, I have 01:50:47
siblings that are single and in their 30s and and they can't buy a home. They have decent jobs. So here in Vineyard 5 or 600,000, 01:50:53
right? And I'm not opposed to an ownership model. I'm opposed to the. 01:51:00
The increase of. 01:51:07
Single bedroom studio condos or apartments, I am all for the the purchase model. I think that's cool. I think that it promotes 01:51:11
stability and. 01:51:16
Staying in a city. 01:51:23
But. 01:51:26
If you start. 01:51:28
I don't know, you find a partner, maybe you need another room because there are now 2 of you. That's a lot of people in a studio 01:51:29
apartment. 01:51:34
And they make these things smells like 300 square feet, and that's also a problem. 01:51:40
That I can't control in this body. So do you see kind of a little bit like these guys are going to, they're not big studio 01:51:48
apartments. These are probably going to be small. 01:51:54
And. 01:52:00
As much as we can. 01:52:02
Allow people who can only afford small spaces. 01:52:05
So maybe have options that aren't? 01:52:09
Cramped and. 01:52:12
Unappealing, but that's all they get to own. 01:52:14
So it really comes down to like. 01:52:18
Vineyard is unaffordable, yeah, no matter what size of house it is, it would be awesome if it was affordable for someone to be 01:52:22
like, yeah, here's a house that'll fit your family and your needs perfectly and it'll be affordable, but it's just. 01:52:28
People are still gonna meet roommating in these studio apartments. We're still gonna see two to three people in each of them. But 01:52:35
like, yeah, but it's something that would be more affordable than anything else. I mean, if it's smaller, yeah, it might not meet 01:52:41
your needs, but it's gonna be less expensive, which might need that current need. And everybody's needs are different, and you 01:52:47
can't if somebody has. 01:52:53
They're trying to spend $30,000 but they need something that's $60,000. Then you can. 01:53:00
I'm going to go back to my earlier point of. 01:53:07
The more we see an increase in these. 01:53:13
Studio and one bedroom. 01:53:17
Living spaces. 01:53:20
The fewer families we're going to have in our city, and that is just the facts, they will all move out of the city. 01:53:22
Instead of wanting to stay. 01:53:31
I think we're going to have a large amount of multi bedroom apartments in the city. But but I mean, so why do we need to focus on 01:53:34
increasing the number of single room? Can you increase the provide something that doesn't exist. There's not a lot of this in Utah 01:53:41
County anyway. They are they are providing something that doesn't. They are already building these. Yeah, as as rentals we're 01:53:48
saying if we can offer an ownership model. I mean, we're good buildings, right walkable downtown community, but why have people. 01:53:56
Rent it and leave over and over again when when we can get actual right. And again, I'm not opposed to that Plus plus with this, 01:54:03
if you have the single family, like it's the I mean not a single family. If you have the one bedroom that's affordable, if you can 01:54:09
own that, then that gives you equity so that you can move into something that's a step up from that, right. And I'm not against 01:54:16
that. I don't understand why you guys think I'm against that. Well, I'm against. 01:54:22
Focusing on making more single bedroom things because they're already going to be a lot. 01:54:29
Because percentage like it seems to be a square footage wise in these buildings like a certain number of square feet have to be 01:54:36
two bedrooms, certain number of square feet have to be 3 and then certain number is allowed to be one or studio and. 01:54:44
So we're going to have far more single bedroom studio apartments than we're going to have these two and three bedrooms. Does that 01:54:53
make sense? We're already going to have, I see what you're saying, like if you build. 01:55:00
Correct. Yeah, that makes sense. So I think I presented this right now. 01:55:07
They're they're going to be bringing in all of those single bedroom studio units that we again, we don't have. 01:55:17
That people are looking for. 01:55:26
Umm. Therefore I just, I don't like seeing it on the list of something that we're prioritizing as a city. 01:55:29
Build more of the single room occupancy units do you mean? But if they're building them specifically for the purpose of not 01:56:39
renting them but actually having them be owned, I think it's a massive benefit. Whereas they're going to build them either way. 01:56:44
But if they're building them. 01:56:49
With the incentive, if the person can buy it, then that gets people that stay in the city. They have a connection with the city, 01:56:56
they want to stay here, They're owning land here, they're owning property here, and then when they need to move up, they're 01:57:01
already invested in the city. In one way, they might want to stay in the city. 01:57:07
So we're not. Are there like sub districts within the city's general plan, like the downtown? Yeah. So the downtown is, in a way, 01:57:15
considered a sub district. It's a special purpose zoning district. 01:57:21
That has kind of its own rules and regulations to that like. 01:57:28
Neighborhoods like they have that could have we could have overlay zones in residential districts. We have overlay zones 01:57:32
currently. 01:57:36
Maybe. 01:57:43
In specific areas, you can be like, OK, you can have like 5 more. Yeah. And saying that, and that's kind of my point, like I or 01:57:45
what I wanted to address is that just by putting it into the general plan doesn't mean that, you know, developers can go and have 01:57:51
a heyday with whatever is in the general plan. The general plan is kind of a sky level. 01:57:57
Guiding framework. 01:58:04
The zoning code then is where we go in and define the specifics of I have a list here of occupancy. We can say that they have to 01:58:07
be owner occupied. We can, we can say we can control the quantity, the percentages, the distribution, the location, whether or not 01:58:14
we want them to be in a, in a facility that's managed by a property manager. Like zoning gives us a lot of zoning and like 01:58:21
development agreements and things like that and how we frame certain districts then allows us to then. 01:58:29
Get into the specifics of how we're going to manage that, but just as an overarching goal, this allows them to I guess just 01:58:37
states. 01:58:41
That it's something that we want to pursue as a city, maybe not even prioritize, you know, as has been said, but at least at least 01:58:46
allow them. So that way we have more affordable options to be more something that doesn't necessarily focus on these. 01:58:53
Baby units maybe it could be focusing on a general we would like to incentivize. 01:59:02
People to be able to afford housing to to own here in our setting, right. The state is giving specific things that we have to. 01:59:09
Yeah. These are all these goals are the goals that were up there are are coming from the top from the state as options. 01:59:17
Yeah. We have to have four in the minimum. And if we want priority consideration for funding from different sources, then we have 01:59:28
to adopt two additional ones, so 6 in total. 01:59:34
I don't, I don't think it's like competitive. I think it's just you, you then enter another category of qualification, but I think 01:59:41
there's specific allotments from the state that they have to distribute to cities that qualify. And if if I could just go back to 01:59:47
this slide that you have. 01:59:54
So that you can move it on to something else if you want. 02:00:02
It helped me understand what it says. So sure, 77,000 is considered to be the MI for Utah County, the area median income. Yeah, 02:00:05
the house moderate income is considered to be 80% of that. Yes, Sir. So that's roughly 60 to 64,000 somewhere in that 02:00:11
neighborhood. Yeah. 02:00:17
OK, so so that gives me a benchmark of the kind of income to to qualify for moderate income housing, but then the next one down, 02:00:23
says other targeted income groups. 02:00:29
Are those making 50%? So that would be through roughly 40,000, maybe 38,000 and then 30%. 02:00:35
So who determines what? 02:00:45
That we have to look at other targeted income groups. We, we don't have to, we're not, we're not required by the state to do that, 02:00:49
but the state wants us to focus on is the 80%. I'm just, I'm just saying that there are other categories. I think the 50 is like 02:00:56
low income and then the 30% is the very low income, basically almost homeless. But we're not having to focus on those two groups. 02:01:02
We're focusing on the, on the 64,000 or so. 02:01:09
For developers, what we focus on because you have the low income housing tax credits and the credit is based off of that 02:01:17
percentage, so. 02:01:20
So much they want to stay allocated so much there's to that 80%, so much goes to 50 goes to 30. And if you have housings, there's 02:01:23
lower percentages, the developers will get a bigger credit spread out overtime. So even if what we propose here, you know how we 02:01:28
focus on things is going to focus on what actually gets developed. If we're only focusing on 80%, developers have less incentive 02:01:33
of what they're going to receive and funding from other sources to build that. So it's worthwhile to to consider everything 02:01:38
holistically. 02:01:43
Because developers will look at it and that's why in their developments they'll have such and such percentage that's 30%, some 50, 02:01:48
some 80, because if they have a certain number of percentage of buildings that meet that, then they get the full tax credit. 02:01:53
Exactly. And tell me if I'm looking at this. Right. So when it talks about the monthly payment, rent or mortgage payment, it would 02:01:59
end up in the 15 to $1600 range? I think so, yeah, right now, like with mortgage rates and everything, that's that's about a 02:02:08
$230,000 loan. So thinking about all of these things, it's essentially what can the city do to provide any type of housing. 02:02:17
That would cost somebody about $1500. 02:02:26
And that's including utilities as well, so all the costs associated with with housing. 02:02:30
So you're looking if it's a purchase in the 222 hundred $30,000 range, that's with that thing down. So that gives us an idea of 02:02:39
like what type of housing? 02:02:44
Would need to. 02:02:51
Exist. 02:02:52
10 meet moderate income out. Yeah, in our current the other house in Utah that is 2 bedroom housing and stuff, those are $460,000 02:02:54
apartments. 02:02:59
So there are really other options besides like a single family or a single room. 02:03:06
We could remove it for now and we could revisit it after we have a work session. And then we choose to adopt that at some future 02:03:44
point and then move forward with all the other strategies that we feel are we're comfortable with. And then we can have that as a 02:03:52
report for the October 1st deadline because we're facing that October 1st deadline that's just three weeks away. 02:03:59
Because yeah, we we should have. 02:04:08
Umm, options for everybody and in the right way is not going to get you a $1500 a month rent, right? 02:04:13
So like, what's actually going to move the needle? It's probably those things that will make some people uncomfortable, right? 02:04:26
Like, like, wow, this is big and drastic if we're allowing accessory dwelling units everywhere in the city or whatever it might 02:04:31
be. 02:04:37
That's not necessarily what I'm proposing, but I'm saying like it'll. 02:04:43
It would take something drastic to actually move the needle to get closer to Yeah, sure, yeah, absolutely. There. There are some 02:04:46
strategies that we we looked at and chose that are kind of require us to kind of put our money where our mouth is too, you know, 02:04:53
so that can be considered drastic. Have we considered a houseboat neighborhood? I'm just doing that out there on the way. 02:04:59
Be an interesting plan is coming that would be kind of cool. 02:05:08
Yeah. 02:05:19
So. 02:05:21
Yeah. How would you guys like to move forward? We've got one more meeting between now and October 1st, right? I'm fine removing. 02:05:23
I would propose we we move forward with that as it is, we remove I and then set up a work session to have somebody educate us on 02:05:32
single family occupancy and discuss the strategies there of what works and doesn't and then we can add that back in. And then I 02:05:38
think we really need to focus on how do we then apply this because I think a lot of cities will probably say, hey, we're adopting 02:05:44
these. 02:05:50
And it just sits there. But I think we do have a major price issue. Utah County does, but we're building thousands and thousands 02:05:56
of units of housing downtown. But it's it's unique where we can. 02:06:02
People want to build there so we can create some rules to get some really affordable housing out of it, yeah. 02:06:08
Do you have a motion then? 02:06:18
Or, sorry, I need a motion to close the public hearing. I make a motion, we close the public hearing. Second. All in favor, aye. 02:06:20
All right. Do I have a motion on this? 02:06:29
I, I guess it's a motion to adopt all the options except for it was I as we're in and then we will reevaluate I in the future and 02:06:33
possibly add it back. 02:06:40
At least I recommend approval, right? Yeah, OK. 02:06:47
A second all in favor. 02:06:50
Hi, this is roll call, right? 02:06:53
I don't know. The Planning Commission does a roll call. 02:06:57
Anthony. 02:07:04
All right. 02:07:07
Moving to Commission member reports and ex parte discussion of disclosure and saying anybody needs to. 02:07:10
Staff fencing. 02:07:19
We are going to APA this week, American Planning Association meeting tomorrow and Friday, so hopefully we'll have some updates. My 02:07:21
next Planning Commission on that. 02:07:25
I don't think so, but our like our whole engineering department it is, so hopefully they'll learn a lot. We might be the only city 02:07:31
in Utah whose whole engineering department is going to HPA conference where it's located. 02:07:36
Thanksgiving Point, certainly, yeah, how many, how many are in our engineering department? 33 and then they're hiring a four 02:07:43
fourth. Yeah. Who are the engineers? So Emily, who is this here a second ago? She's the associate engineer. And then Justine is in 02:07:50
the Justine Marshall is the stormwater inspector. She's in the engineering department. And then Nassim Gander. So they they are 02:07:56
going to be hiring at a city engineer, staff engineer out of the position. 02:08:03
So. 02:08:10
As a staff support, we, we do have two community outreach events going on in the near future for the quarter. The central quarter 02:08:12
park plan, the 80 acre wetland park plan that's going to launch on the 29th right Cache that, that's going to be an event at 02:08:19
Vineyard Grove. And then on the 8th of October, another event where we're going to have food trucks and talk about the plans and 02:08:27
get people's input and hopefully get as many people out as as possible. 02:08:34
So yeah, there's also gonna be a Facebook Live event, I believe on September the 28th. 02:08:42
So. 02:08:48
We'll keep an eye out for those cool. 02:08:50
I mean, it, it doesn't seem like we actually have a stance of how Vineyard envisions what this is going to be. You know, do we 02:09:21
envision that green space or? Yeah, I think, I think that's a great question, I think. 02:09:26
And cash you can help me out here, but we did pass and approve the the waterfront master plan, which basically shows that area to 02:09:32
be recreational, to be areas of conservation, public access trails, features for the community, educational education community. 02:09:40
So we are like very much on in support of the general Volcano way concept. 02:09:48
But whether or not what ends up happening with the state and with the private land owners is kind of up in the air, but our plan 02:09:57
is to support. 02:10:01
An improvement of that area that benefits both the community and and the natural landscape for conservation. 02:10:04
Thank you. 02:10:13
If there's not anything else. 02:10:15
Then meeting adjourned. 02:10:18
OK, Thanks guys. That was the wrong one. Good one. 02:10:20
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Welcome everybody. It is September 7th, 2022, and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We're going to open the 00:00:02
meeting with Anthony giving us an invocation and Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:08
Our Father in Heaven, we're grateful to be gathered together to discuss the needs of the city, and we pray. 00:00:16
For openness and insights into the decisions we'll be making and that we can keep the community in mind as we make these 00:00:23
decisions. And we say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. 00:00:28
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:38
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:44
Thank you, Anthony. 00:00:53
All right, we'll move into an open session. Now's the time. If you have any comments you'd like to make publicly, please come to 00:00:55
the podium here. State your name. 00:01:00
Have any public comments? 00:01:05
All right. If not, we will move into the minutes for review and approval. Do I have a motion on that? 00:01:08
I do move that we approve the minutes as presented. I have a second. 00:01:13
Second, all in favor, aye. All right, moving to the business item 4.1. 00:01:18
Sorry, we got to move around for a second. 00:01:38
Switch the channel so my laptop can display. 00:01:43
One of those things. 00:01:49
Than that yeah, transportation. 00:01:53
Is it working? 00:02:06
OK, great. So, yeah. 00:02:08
My name is Cash Hansi. I will be doing the site plan review for both Mr. Car Wash and Jiffy Lube. While the applications are gonna 00:02:11
look very similar 'cause it's looks like it's one site plan, we are moving them separately together just in case there's anything 00:02:17
you guys wanna hold back or anything like that. We just wanna make sure that we could get both of them the chance for for a good 00:02:22
review. So. 00:02:28
Start off with the Mr. Car Wash. 00:02:36
I can zoom in here and we do have the applicant Elliot here if you guys have any questions for him later on. 00:02:40
So. 00:02:46
This right here is the site for both the Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash. The Jiffy Lube will be on the southern lot here and Mr. Car 00:02:48
Wash will be the the northern lot here. They'll both have access to Geneva Rd. through the current O'Reilly access, so they do 00:02:55
have a cross access agreement with O'Reilly to allow for traffic. 00:03:02
So as far as learning, we didn't have a lot of concerns. So there are a few things that we do recommend for conditions for 00:03:10
approval and I can go over those next to our biggest concerns as well as just to show you the site. 00:03:18
And feel free to stop meeting anytime if you have any questions. 00:03:31
Out here. 00:03:37
OK, so this is just the Mr. Car Wash right here. So you'll see they have the access through the the Jiffy Lube law right here and 00:03:39
it'll take them to the queuing line to the car wash and then cars, it looks like they can either exit the queue right here. 00:03:46
And this is a vacuum area or they can go through the tunnel right here. 00:03:54
Next slide I should have the. 00:03:59
Sorry, I should have brought my mouth for zooming, it makes things a lot easier. 00:04:04
That's just the workings of it. Here's elevations of Mr. Carwash. So you can see that they've followed our design guidelines and 00:04:11
breaking up the longer edges and, and bringing a variety of materials and, and colors. And we think it it generally looks pretty 00:04:18
good. You do have the door facing the like garage door area facing Geneva Rd. So that means the fans are on that end. 00:04:26
And and all the signing on here also will be have to be approved through a separate sign permit. 00:04:34
Just another side elevation, other vacuums. 00:04:45
Yeah, yeah, they are just South of the building itself. 00:04:48
You want me to go back to the site plan? 00:04:53
Yeah, I don't think they're quite labeled on the site plan itself. There is one enclosure where the vacuum itself is stored and 00:04:57
I'll go back to that because I do have some comments about it. So this is, it looks like the like kiosk area where cars drive up. 00:05:03
You can see they have a little shelter for the attendants. 00:05:09
There are trash enclosures. 00:05:17
Everything general is in line with our code. 00:05:26
See if it should have the landscaping plan on this page here. 00:05:35
So. 00:05:42
Yeah, the vacuums are all along right here. 00:05:45
I don't know if does every parking spot have a vacuum. 00:05:48
Yes. OK. So and there's no canopies over the vacuums, right? No canopies and the vacuum enclosure is right here. 00:05:52
The noisy part, yeah, it's right there. So, so that was one of our comments on the site plan is that the Gru requires that all 00:06:00
enclosures be 50 feet from residential properties and this measured at about 30. 00:06:07
I don't know why it keeps zooming on me. 00:06:18
So. 00:06:22
They've done a good job at providing a good landscaping buffer from the Edgewater right here with all these trees planting to to 00:06:24
give a nice view break as well as throughout the entire property. They've done a good job at combining the the landscaping along 00:06:29
with the Jiffy Lube. 00:06:35
While it shows that like lightest green color, that is not going to be grass or turf, it's going to be I think they call it like. 00:06:41
I wish would stop doing that. 00:06:49
Crushed rock and 65% plant coverage. So it's more of a water wise landscaping choice. With this landscaping along Geneva Rd. the 00:06:56
DRU does require two things that this landscaping plan didn't show and that is they need to increase the number of shrubs. They 00:07:03
don't show any shrubs along the front of of here. And so they do need to submit a a updated site plan or landscaping plan that 00:07:10
that would show those shrubs along Geneva Rd. as well as the GRMU requires. 00:07:17
42 inch fence around the frontage. And so those are some of our conditions of approval with the landscaping is to submit just a 00:07:25
new landscaping plan that that we can do a staff review on just to show that they are putting in that fence right there as well as 00:07:30
the the required landscaping. 00:07:36
Besides that, there they met all the minimums in terms of interior landscaping, number of trees, shrubs, all of that, that they 00:07:43
did a really good job. The GRE also requires that there's I think 15 feet of of green space frontage. 00:07:50
From Geneva Road, and they've provided that all along here. 00:07:59
Can go back to the. 00:08:03
Motor for the vacuum. 00:08:05
Sure. 00:08:08
Yeah. So the vacuum, was there a specific page you wanted to see? 00:08:16
OK. Yeah. So the drum does allow for car washes. It's a permitted use. But one of the the stipulations is that any vacuum 00:08:21
enclosures have to be 50 feet from resident neighboring residential properties. So with Edgewater being on the West side of this 00:08:26
property. 00:08:31
That structure does need to get moved 50 feet away from that property line. And like I said, I think right now it's around 30 or 00:08:37
35 feet. So it's not too far from being within within our standards. 00:08:42
So, so that would be one of the conditions of approvals they submit updated site plan that shows that it meets that 50 feet away. 00:08:50
One option so I can show you the the. 00:08:56
What they'll need to do is submit an updated landscaping plan reflecting all vegetation and ground cover and that will be provided 00:09:36
to staff before the submission of a building permit. So before they can even start breaking ground or anything like that, we will 00:09:42
have to have that updated landscaping plan. Similar thing with that fence on on condition number #5 they just need to indicate the 00:09:48
fence location and the material. 00:09:54
On an updated landscaping plan for us to to do a review, our finance will be reviewed through separate permit. 00:10:01
They did provide plenty of bicycle parking, however they didn't give details on what type of racks they would be in. Vineyard City 00:10:10
code does require that they are the inverted use style, so we wanted to make sure that was a condition of approval. 00:10:16
And then the last thing was that our prescriptions of a sound study must be installed according to Vineyard zoning and municipal 00:10:23
code. 1 issue we had when looking at the Gru and allowing car washes is we want to make sure that sound wasn't going to be an 00:10:31
issue for Edgewater mostly. And so I believe they have done a sound study already and I can let him, I can let answer to that. 00:10:38
And I think that the study did indicate a few things that they would need to do the property to provide that kind of buffering. So 00:10:46
we just wanted to make sure that was included in the condition of approval that they filed the sound study so that it doesn't 00:10:51
create a new sense for Edgewater. 00:10:57
Is going to go and what kind of stuff? 00:11:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:09
And then the second option is if you feel like you want to get a better review, if you want to see a site plan with the updated 00:11:14
vacuum and how they're going to mitigate the sound, whether you know, they're a little bit more descriptive in in the how the 00:11:19
sounds study, what that requires. We can choose to continue this to the next Planning Commission meeting if you guys do want to do 00:11:25
that review on these changes. But I'll let Eliot come and answer you guys questions and then we can go from there real quick 00:11:31
before you go. 00:11:37
I know that on the properties north of this like the Top Golf property and stuff have a pathway along Geneva Rd. If they're not 00:11:43
going to be any kind of. So that's one issue just with Udot's expansion and Elliot might know a little bit more to that than I do. 00:11:51
But we can't make them improve the property that belongs to you that or that you thought is going to take over. 00:11:59
And so we aren't sure what that relationship is. I don't know if you know anything to that, Brian, but I mean, O'Reilly. 00:12:07
Doesn't have any kind of sidewalk or anything like that. If you look at it, it's just the driveway approach. And so we felt that 00:12:14
holding them to that standard of something that we don't even know where that road is going to go, how far to their property will 00:12:18
go. 00:12:22
Just wasn't the right thing to do. 00:12:27
I'll go open back up to the site plan here and then let Elliot come answer any questions you guys have. 00:12:30
If I quit zooming in. 00:12:38
Do we know what kind of pedestrian traffic there will be around the facility? 00:12:41
So they have. 00:12:46
Area. So I mean there isn't like any kind of sidewalk along that West side where Edgewater is at. There's no like gateway into 00:12:49
Edgewater at all. They have provided some some crosswalks that are either stamped concrete or raised to provide differentiation 00:12:57
for both the Diffie Lube and the Mr. Car Wash. So they have provided that. But once again, they just as of right now, there's no 00:13:04
sidewalk along Geneva Rd. So hopefully once that sidewalk does get put in place, this will tie in well with that. 00:13:11
I'm just wondering around the property itself, not talking about sidewalks, but what pedestrian traffic is anticipated around the 00:13:19
car wash? I think it might be better answering that than I do, so I'll let him. 00:13:25
And then you just say your name. 00:13:35
Thank you, Cash, and thank you all for your time tonight. My name is Elliott Smith with Terraform Companies. Do you need my 00:13:40
address for the record or no? OK, all right. Some places require address. 00:13:45
Christmas cards. Oh, if it's Christmas cards and that toilet papering, I'll give you my address. I got toilet paper last weekend. 00:13:50
Teenage daughters, anyway. 00:13:55
So, yeah, we we own these two properties. We brought them from X Development a few months ago. And Mr. Car Wash and Jiffy Lube are 00:14:02
a couple of tenants that we do quite a bit of work for across the country. Terraform, just quick introduction, we do single tenant 00:14:08
retail. So companies like this that have their own freestanding building, we find the site, we manage the whole process to get 00:14:14
them a new building. So these are two of our key clients. 00:14:20
And we're excited to be here. Mr. Powers is very excited to be here in Vineyard. And we understand that there's a need for these 00:14:26
type of facilities here. So we appreciate working with staff to this point. To be brief and touch on some of the things that Cash 00:14:32
brought up. First of all, the vacuum enclosure. So just to describe what that is and if you think you know any car washes that 00:14:37
you've gone to. 00:14:43
Some car wash companies have canopies that go over the vacuums. These ones don't. They have what are called vacuum pedestals, and 00:14:50
that's where the actual hose is. That's not very noisy and there's a lot of them right all along the in front of every parking 00:14:55
stall. 00:15:00
But the vacuum enclosure that you see there that we will relocate further to closer to Geneva Rd. so it meets that minimum 50 foot 00:15:06
requirement. That's the vacuum machine itself that generates noise. So pulling that further away to meet that 50 foot minimum 00:15:12
requirement. And it's called vacuum enclosure because it is enclosed with CMU material that matches the trash enclosure and the 00:15:19
CMU material that's on the building. So it's all a consistent look. 00:15:25
So that helps minimize some of the sound in the noisy part of these car washes. Are the dryer units at the exit of the tunnel. 00:15:32
Which we've designed it in a way where the exit is on Geneva Road to minimize that noise spillover. 00:15:39
So before I move on to the sound study, does that adequately address your question about the vacuum enclosure, Commissioner 00:15:47
Blackburn? 00:15:51
Included in the sound study. 00:15:55
It is but the biggest noise generator. 00:15:57
Is really comes from the tunnel, right, the dryer units. So we did the the sound study and I think I sent a copy of that to you, 00:16:03
right cash, I think you have a copy of that. And city minimum is 65 decibels at property line between a commercial and a 00:16:09
residential use. And so in order to do that the consultant that we hired to put the sound study together, we have put different 00:16:15
mitigation measures in place, different recommendations. 00:16:21
To keep that noise level at 65 decibels, we brought that up at DRC with staff. 00:16:28
I mean to let you know what it is, is basically an 8 foot tall wall all along that boundary up against Edgewater. Now in talking 00:16:36
with staff, the the problem that you run into there is I think current city code doesn't allow, I think it was actually a nine 00:16:43
foot wall, wasn't it? It was a nine foot wall. They allow up to 8. And so we are in process of working with staff and the sound 00:16:50
study consultant to come up with something that still keeps that sound. 00:16:58
At 65 decibels at property line, but with an 8 foot wall. So we don't have to get any kind of a variance to go to get around that 00:17:05
city code, right? So we're working with them on that. And probably what it will entail is putting some, you know, a wall right 00:17:11
outside, right in front of the tunnel where the cars enter the tunnel to get the noise down so that an 8 foot wall will be 00:17:17
sufficient to handle that noise. Or another thought I had, we could do an 8 foot wall and just burn it up so it actually gets 9 00:17:23
feet. 00:17:29
There we go from bottom to top is still 8, but it's really 9 to give that protection. But it's suffice to say we have a very 00:17:36
detailed sound study and we're working closely with staff to make sure that we a, comply with city code and B comply with the 00:17:43
recommendations in the sound study. So the vacuum enclosure will is incorporated into that because if you look at a certain page 00:17:49
on a sound stand here and look at those before but. 00:17:56
It has a color red that shows where the noisiest parts are coming from. And the vacuum enclosure and the tunnel entrance and exit 00:18:04
are the two noisiest spots as you would imagine, right? And so the wall that we would build would handle any of that noise from 00:18:10
the vacuum enclosure as well. 00:18:16
So does that. 00:18:23
Sufficiently address your questions about that. 00:18:25
Yeah, for sure. And we don't get a lot of complaints of noise, Right. Right. Don't have to look into it, Elliot. Sorry. This is 00:18:33
Brian. I'm city planner. Yeah, I don't think you can manipulate the grade underneath the wall to meet meet a height requirement, 00:18:39
unfortunately. So you're gonna have to find a work around. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's something we want to look into because there 00:18:46
are a bunch of utilities in that area back there and there's restrictions on how deep we can. 00:18:53
Build fence posts and things like that. So right, anyway, but we'll continue to work with staff to come up with something that 00:19:00
works within city code and and meets the the sound study requirements, not guidelines, but requirements to keep it at 65 decibels 00:19:06
of property line. 00:19:12
So that's a big part of what we're doing. I'm trying to think. 00:19:19
What is that comparable to in normal noise? If you did you? No, that's 100 decibels. Well it depends on how loud she yells. 50 to 00:19:24
65 decibels is about normal conversation volume according to Google. Decibels explain TLC electrical. 00:19:35
Yeah, we'll have to confirm that, but yeah. 00:19:48
You know, and obviously with this type of noise with the vacuums and. 00:19:52
The noise coming from the tunnel, it becomes more of an ambient noise, right? Like we're talking now, I could be, you know, 55 or 00:19:57
60 decibels, but it's, it's periodic, not constant, right? So it could just be a constant dull noise that you hear. 00:20:05
So you're welcome. 00:20:15
I had a question about the North End there. It's not part of your project, but eventually they'll be in and out. 00:20:18
Privileges for this property. I thought you meant In and Out Burger is kind of like whoa. So that's a big announcement. 00:20:26
An ingress egress, yes, yeah, that's already in place. So on the the current plat, there's an A cross access easement that goes 00:20:36
along the frontage of all of those lots. And I believe the wording on the plat states that that cross access area, the exact 00:20:43
location can be modified as each site is developed. OK. 00:20:50
So that that's what we're doing here, but we're actually pretty close to where the existing cross access easement is on the plat. 00:20:58
And just as a side note, X development is in process of doing an amended plat. I don't know if that comes before this body or not 00:21:05
or if it's even relevant. But if you look closely on these site plans, it shows the current lot line and the proposed lot line. So 00:21:12
we're switching, we're doing a lot line adjustment is really what it is for lots two and three, which are the lots that we own, 00:21:19
OK. So we were informed by accident that the lot line adjustment matches basically what you're proposing in the site plan. 00:21:25
We're just working still with Jamie, the city attorney, to see. 00:21:33
What the legal requirements for how we can approve that law on adjustment so? 00:21:38
There's there's new regulations coming from the state level to. 00:21:42
Regulate how those are approved either legislatively or if they can be approved administratively. And so we're trying to workout 00:21:47
those differences right now and, and what is the motivation. 00:21:51
So, so we purchased, so O'reilly's on Lot 1 where we purchased lots 2:00 and 3:00 and then we have an agreement with X Development 00:21:58
that we would also pick up an additional 5 feet of property from their lot 4. And that's in order to fit everything that you see 00:22:06
here. So when we did our site plan with Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash before we purchased the property and we went to Eric and as an 00:22:13
external and said, look, we need a little bit more property here. So that, that was. 00:22:21
The driver behind it and then adjusting a lot line between lot. So that's the lot line between lot 3 and four and then between lot 00:22:28
2 and three between the Jiffy Lube and Mr. Car Wash. That's so that we can fit all of those tenant improvements on their. We're 00:22:35
right sizing the lot to fit the site plan. This is really what we're doing. So yeah. 00:22:41
Anything OK if you have any questions movement around the building itself other when I go to the car wash I don't get out right. 00:22:52
Pretty much that's it yeah. And we get that question quite a bit in different municipalities when we developed for Mr. Car Wash 00:22:59
and Jiffy Lube and the. 00:23:05
Provide a lot of, you know, pedestrian access, but the employees walk. 00:23:42
Their will up against the building. 00:23:48
They could correct, correct. And, and that that's provided with the sidewalks around the building and there's plenty of safe 00:23:51
pedestrian access points and ways for employees to get to the attendant Hut to get over to the point of sale system and to access 00:23:59
the equipment room and, and the offices that are inside the building so. 00:24:07
Could you speak a little bit to the ingress and egress into and out of the Arm U district off of Geneva Road and how that might 00:24:17
function in terms of traffic circulation and getting people in and out of that area through the existing access point that is 00:24:23
there for O'reilly's? And then I think there are? 00:24:30
More access points that are already approved with U dot as you go further north, right? 00:24:38
So right now those don't exist, but eventually when they do it'll offload some of the frozen onto. 00:24:45
This development, but we designed the site particularly with a car wash. 00:24:51
I don't wanna get ahead of myself because the Jiffy Lube is up next. But just as a quick side note, Jiffy Lube's don't generate a 00:24:57
ton of of traffic, not nearly What Car washes generate. A good Jiffy Lube has maybe 35 to 40 customers a day. So that's not a lot, 00:25:05
right? Especially if you, you know, think about that the AM hours, you know, between 8:00 and 9:00, noon between. 00:25:14
Lunchtime between noon and 1:00 and then evening between 5:00 and 6:00. Those are the peak times for Jiffy Lube. Pretty 00:25:23
predictable. 00:25:26
But car washes, they can generate quite a bit even on the weekends. Although I will as a side note, this does relate to your 00:25:29
question about traffic and flow with Mr. Car Wash and many other car wash companies, they have a monthly pass system. And one of 00:25:36
the drivers for that is to take away the significant peak volume time that you have. Because if you think about it from a customer 00:25:44
perspective, if you have a car wash pass, you're not just you're not going to wait until Saturday to go or wait until a. 00:25:51
Weather day to go, you'll just go whenever you want to go, right? And so that makes it so all of the customers are not going to 00:25:59
the car wash at the same time. So that helps a lot. So I get that question a lot. When are the peak times for a car wash? And if 00:26:05
you ask that to Mr. Car Wash direct based on their data from all of their locations, they'll tell you well, Saturdays are probably 00:26:11
Saturdays and Sundays are probably still the busiest days, but there isn't really a massive peak anymore. Obviously you get a 00:26:17
little bit of it when they first. 00:26:23
For the first two or three weeks, you'll see a lot of traffic, but that evens out pretty quickly. But whenever we design these car 00:26:29
wash sites, we always do it in a way to provide plenty of stacking. As you can see here, it would take a lot for car wash traffic 00:26:35
in the queue line to come anywhere close to backing up onto Geneva Rd. that they have to come, you know, in so that those are 00:26:42
three lanes 3. 00:26:48
Two lanes and I think each of those this side of the point of sale system. 00:26:55
We'll stack 12 cars. So right there you have 36 cars before you get into the point of sale and then you can stack probably 00:27:01
another, you know 8 or so after the point of sale before you get into the tunnel and then you can have 5 or 6 cars in the tunnel 00:27:08
at a time. So you're talking almost A50 car stack before that even gets out onto the shared access Rd. So there there's really no 00:27:14
risk of. 00:27:20
Backing up onto AAU, dot or a city or a city road, Yeah, anywhere here. So I don't know if that's what you were asking for 00:27:27
specifically. Brian, did that address the question as far as traffic and getting people in and out? Yeah, I just wanted to have 00:27:32
that conversation. 00:27:36
As far as cars exiting the car wash, it's not nearly the the load that you have entering a car wash because everybody has to wait 00:27:41
to get in. But when they get out, half the cars don't use the vacuums have to do, they're there for different periods of time. So 00:27:47
the the flow out is a trickle flow, not everybody there at the same time. 00:27:54
So how many lanes will there be coming in with just one, three, Yeah, 33 queuing lanes there. Yep. And then it it tapers to one 00:28:01
after, after the point of sale. 00:28:08
Area there and then Cash brought up that lane that they call that the bailout lane. And the reason for that is sometimes you get 00:28:18
bigger vehicles that they get through the point of sale and an employee notices that you can't go through, you got to get out or 00:28:23
they have an emergency and they have to leave. They just provide that as an option for them to get out if they don't want to go