Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge? Click Here
Start Position
CALL TO ORDER  
INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE Bryce Brady called the meeting to order at03 pm. Tim Blackburn gave an invocation.
OPEN SESSION There were no public comments.
MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVAL3.1    October,22 – Joint Planning Commission and City Council Meeting.3.2    November223.3    November,22Motion: Anthony Jenkins made a motion to approve the meeting minutes from October, November and November,22. Tim Blackburn seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously                    BUSINESS ITEMS1
East Lake at Geneva Industrial Park –Site Plan Amendment Planner Briam Perez gave a presentation regarding the site plan amendment.
There was a discussion concerning the building materials.
There was a discussion concerning clarifying the zoning code.
There was a discussion concerning if the site plan is allowed and further research needed.
There was a discussion concerning the conditions of approval.
There was a discussion concerning landscaping along50 N road.
There was a discussion concerning alignment of the Lindon heritage trail.
Motion: Tim Blackburn made a motion to continue East Lake at Geneva Industrial Park Site Plan Amendment to Januaryh,23. Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously  2
Conditional Use Permit – Building O, The Yard Planner Briam Perez gave a presentation about adding a drive through to Building O in the Yard Subdivision.
Karla Mata, with X- Development, came forward and answered questions from the Planning Commission. There was a discussion concerning the existing drive-throughs in the yard.
There was a discussion concerning providing an updated master plan of The Yard Subdivision.
Motion: Anthony Jenkins moved to approve the conditional use permit with the conditions as outlined in the staff report. Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously  3
PUBLIC HEARING – Zoning Text Amendment - Public Noticing Motion: Tim Blackburn made a motion to open the public hearing for the zoning text amendment. Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.
Planner Cache Hancey presented the city-initiated zoning text amendment.
There was a discussion concerning whether people read notices in the newspaper and the value of posting a notice in the newspaper. There was discussion concerning different methods of noticing and how to reach a larger audience.
There was a discussion concerning how the notices are retained.
There were no public comments made.
Motion: Tim Blackburn made a motion to close the public. Anthony Jenkins seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gundmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously
Motion: Chris Bramwell made a motion to continue the zoning text amendment to Januaryh,23. Tay Gundmundson seconded the motion. Roll call as follows: Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously  4
PUBLIC HEARING – General Plan Amendment – Active Transportation Plan
Motion: Tay Gudmundson made a motion to continue the general plan amendment to Januaryh,23. Anthony Jenkins seconded the motion. Roll call as follows: Those voting aye: Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Tim Blackburn, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.                     WORKSESSION5.1
Multifamily Mixed-Use Building, The Yard - Work SessionPlanner Briam Perez introduced the project.
Eric Towner, with X Development, presented a scope of work and site plan on a multi-family mixed and asked the Planning Commission for feedback.
There was a discussion concerning reverse angle parking along0 North Street.
There was a discussion concerning the rail spur removal.
There was a discussion concerning putting a traffic signal and pedestrian crossing at the intersection of0 N and Mill Road.
Eric Towner continued the presentation.
There was a discussion concerning artwork on the proposed building.
There was a discussion concerning landscaping and a multiuse path along Geneva Road.
There was a discussion concerning recreation amenities and a fire lane.
There was a discussion concerning what type of retail that will be located in the building.
There was a discussion concerning the short-term rental aspect of the building.
There was a discussion concerning parking.
Eric Towner asked for feedback about the proposed architecture and site plan.
There was a discussion concerning murals on the buildings.
There was a discussion concerning building amenities.
There was a discussion concerning the timing of construction.
TRAINING SESSION6.1    The Utah Land Use Institute Book7.
COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
There was a discussion about the Christmas tree lighting.
Several members and staff thanked Tim Blackburn for his service on the Planning Commission.
There was a discussion about installing a USPS drop box in Vineyard.
There was a discussion regarding adding a parking plan to the zoning code.                    ADJOURNMENT
Chair Brady adjourned the meeting at50 pm.   Certified correct and approved on:  January,23   NOTICED BY:   /s/ Rachel Stevens                           Rachel Stevens, Planning Tech
Yeah. I think last year was like TV dinners or something. TV dinners, yeah. 00:00:00
Some the same the same brought some memories. 00:00:06
Like military? 00:00:11
Yeah. 00:00:25
I think they're getting that. 00:00:26
OK, Welcome everybody. It is December 7th, 2022. It is 6:03 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We'll have an 00:00:40
invocation by Tim Blackburn. 00:00:46
Thank you. 00:00:53
I'll wait till. 00:00:56
Give them a second, they finish, they're plugging in. 00:00:58
Brian, you can take your time. We're just waiting for you. 00:01:04
Our beloved Father in heaven this evening as we convene this Planning Commission meeting, we're grateful for this opportunity that 00:01:11
we have to be here. We're thankful for the moisture that we received over the last weeks. We're grateful Father in Heaven to live 00:01:17
in this community. And we're thankful for those who live here and for those who helped to make it strong and vibrant. We're 00:01:23
grateful for those who administered through the city. 00:01:29
We pray Father in Heaven, for the time that we're together tonight, that we'll be inspired, uplifted and directed and make those 00:01:36
decisions that will truly benefit this community and the people who live here and that will visit here. We pray that we can help 00:01:42
to plan for the future growth and development in ways that will bring safety and vitality and excitement to this community. We 00:01:49
pray for our families as we live here and work here as well. 00:01:55
And we're grateful to live in a free nation where we can exercise the freedoms that we've been given. And we pray for these things 00:02:02
and thank you for them. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. 00:02:07
Thank you, Tim. Thank you. 00:02:13
All right, we'll move into an open session. This is the time for Publix to make any comments. If you want to come up to the 00:02:15
podium, state your name. 00:02:19
There aren't any comments. OK. We'll move right into the minutes for review and approval. Do I have a motion on that? 00:02:24
Since I didn't attend two of the meetings, I probably have to let somebody else. 00:02:34
Motion to approve them. 00:02:39
Yeah, I looked over. They look good to me. I also was not here for 3.23 point 3, but 3.1 I'm definitely good. I'll make a motion 00:02:44
to approve them. Do I have a second? And I will second it all in favor. 00:02:50
Right moving into business Item 4.1 E Lake at Geneva Industrial Park. 00:02:57
To you without crutches. 00:03:10
Good. 00:03:12
Thank you. 00:03:41
OK. So my name is Brian Amaya, the planner two in the Community Development department. 00:03:51
And I actually don't see our applicant here today. 00:03:57
But I will still present his project their project. 00:04:01
OK. So this is application for a site plan amendment and the the client is a Vineyard Properties of Utah LLC. This is Martin 00:04:18
Snow's company. He owns a lot of property in the East Lake Geneva Industrial Park. 00:04:26
And this is looking at 7050 N Pioneer Lane and it's a 56 approximately 56,000 square feet of building extension. 00:04:36
The property is in the M district and. 00:04:46
His proposed land uses are consistent with the zoning. For the most part. What they want to do here is light manufacturing, 00:04:50
warehousing and offices. 00:04:54
The new tenant they're going to be, they're called Universal Industrial Sales. They're going to manufacture freeway safety 00:04:59
products such as guard rails, bridge rails, sign structures, et cetera. And they anticipate bringing about 50 new jobs to Vineyard 00:05:04
City. 00:05:09
Um. 00:05:16
So I've been working pretty closely with the gentleman named Chris Kept Part, who represents Martin Snow. He's been working with 00:05:20
me and with other city staff to be able to provide the minimum required open space to provide improved dust proof parking 00:05:26
surfaces, including 88 stalls and bicycle parking stalls. Safe and convenient circulation patterns for vehicles and pedestrians. 00:05:33
Features for public gathering. 00:05:39
Natural water wise landscaping. That's consistent with the new codes coming down from the state. 00:05:46
And adequate exterior lighting. 00:05:52
The major point of discussion that I think the Planning Commission is considered today revolves around the visual impact of the 00:05:55
buildings aesthetics and the human slash pedestrian scale design that that it provides or does not provide. That's kind of up to 00:06:04
you guys to determine. The building was ordered by the applicant about more than six months ago. 00:06:13
And it's primarily made of metal, a prefabricated metal. The original plans that they presented to us showed minimal variations in 00:06:22
architectural design, color, materiality, relief and massing. But since that original submittal, the applicant has been working 00:06:30
with city staff to do as much as they can to the buildings exterior to provide. 00:06:38
Variations in the roofline, Some recessed wall planes, Decorative beans. 00:06:47
Using and transparent see some windows and so in in a nutshell, really it's up to the Planning Commission to determine if the 00:06:54
building's extension as presented today as you've had the opportunity to review the plans sufficiently needs our building design 00:07:01
requirements and if it's appropriate for the intended land uses and if it's consistent with the surrounding development. 00:07:07
If you guys choose to approve the submittal as presented today, I've attached 12 conditions of approval that you guys can. 00:07:16
Talk about and discuss. 00:07:25
I'm happy to show you more. Parts of the plans have elations. I have landscape plans, so whatever you'd like to see, happy to show 00:07:27
it to you. 00:07:31
So I don't think I was here six months ago when this first went through. So this is yeah. So they ordered the building 6 months 00:07:37
ago. So they didn't take it to the Planning Commission. This is the first time that we're seeing this application, but it's a 00:07:43
prefabricated metal building that they had ordered several months ago. And this isn't like a subdivision or something like that. 00:07:49
So no, no, no. So if you look right here at the screen. 00:07:55
Whoops. 00:08:01
Brian, do you have site photos or something like that? You should, Yeah, I'll just, I'll bring that up. Yeah, that's a good idea. 00:08:04
Does corrugated metal meet the. 00:08:08
So there is a code section that says that metal is prohibited. 00:08:15
Yeah. 00:08:20
Did they not know? 00:08:24
I mean, in the kindest words that I can use, I think in a way they might have gotten ahead of themselves and they went ahead and 00:08:28
ordered a building that is struggling to meet the code standards. And so they're now trying to do the best that they can to try to 00:08:35
make revisions, to try to add some articulation, some variation in design. But because it's prefabricated and it's a 56,000 square 00:08:41
foot building, there's, it's been difficult for them. I'd just like to point out though. 00:08:48
Kind of understanding it is an addition to do an existing building. And so they were trying to, so we sort of had like 2 code 00:08:56
sections that conflict. One of them is having similar materials as you as you make additions or extensions to buildings as they 00:09:05
make the current architecture. And so they were trying to also do that but the material that was being proposed. 00:09:13
Is a material that's that that that's not one that's. 00:09:22
I guess allowed or is it? Is it straight up prohibited under the code? We can look at the code section, but it's pretty doesn't 00:09:28
need a lot of room for leeway unfortunately. But I can show it to the Planning Commission and they can. 00:09:34
The existing building there, they're metal. Yeah. That it's it's it's consistent in terms of color, pretty much consistent in 00:09:41
design. And to be non compliant is what it sounds like it should be a it's like Grandfather Day. And I'm assuming it was compliant 00:09:48
at the time. So it's yes, yeah. And it would look weird to provide a building extension that's completely different than the 00:09:54
original building that's already on the site. And to be 100% fair. 00:10:01
There's similar buildings in that immediate vicinity. 00:10:08
So. 00:10:12
But they were all built before. 00:10:16
They were built before. 00:10:19
Sorry, say that one more time before this code was in place is when those other buildings, perhaps, I don't know exactly what, 00:10:21
there's a good likelihood that maybe it was. 00:10:26
Well, it would seem like yeah, because our, our zoning audience was I think 2006 when and initially came in this this building. I 00:10:33
I believe I predate that. So. So the, the ordinance with which the original building was built allowed that type of building. Or 00:10:40
were there exceptions made or what it was it was a lot of lack of code. So we had Billy code, yes. Everyone saw how to meet Billy 00:10:47
code regards to the zoning ordinance the city adopted a. 00:10:54
Out following basically after the construction of that building OK, so so we're performing a variance kind of decision here 00:11:02
tonight to allow them to do something where there is a path to approve it without it being a variance to what's in code. I don't 00:11:09
think a literal variance, but like somewhat of a variance because they're building design we're actually working on that. We're 00:11:17
trying to tighten up and further define our building design standards and be more specific as to like how much. 00:11:24
Articulation do we do we want how many wall, you know, recessed wall plans at what distances on the building do we want these, you 00:11:32
know, articulations and things like that? So we're it's kind of there's there's a lot of it is up to your discretion at this 00:11:38
point, I would say. What would you say, Morgan? 00:11:45
Yeah. I mean, I, I think you got to take in the context the the industrial district, the nature of the industrial district. 00:11:53
You know, I would look at things if. 00:12:01
You know, if you want to see more material added to it, I mean, the applicant isn't here. You could always continue it and and and 00:12:04
provide some direction to the applicant. 00:12:09
But, but overall, I mean, it's, it's mature, it's essentially making a connection to an existing building utilizing the similar 00:12:16
materials. I did want to show them the original submittal and and how it's kind of changed a little since. 00:12:23
So the original submittal was pretty much just a block. 00:12:32
So they, they have done, they've, they've gone a little bit, you know, and. 00:12:38
I do want to give them a little credit for that. 00:12:42
Like the roof? Yeah, like the roof line. They've they brought the front portion out. They've got some beans, they've got some 00:12:46
windows, a few doors. 00:12:50
So it is definitely visually more interesting, but you know, whether or not it meets the standard that we're trying to move 00:12:55
forward with as a city in terms of human skill, design, pedestrian interest, things like that, That's that's the question. So 00:13:02
personally, I'd like to talk with the applicant and probably continue it personally. But also, I mean, looking at their existing 00:13:09
building, I mean, it looks better than their existing building, which isn't saying anything really. 00:13:16
But they also have no landscaping for their existing building. 00:13:24
So maybe having some kind of condition where they landscape what they already have plus this. 00:13:28
Some kind of exception just because it's matching what's already there, but like looking on the map like there's no landscaping 00:13:36
and not the existing building. 00:13:41
Right, they've added a little bit of landscaping along the right of way. So they've added this 20 foot buffer of landscaping. 00:13:47
They've added they, they currently meet the 5% of this buildable site area. They've added this their escaped 6000 square foot, 00:13:54
their escape area in the back that also has like a patio area. So it kind of serves as a nice spot for maybe some public 00:14:02
gathering. They've added a 5 foot foundation planter along the front of the building that does provide some aesthetic. 00:14:09
To the front, but. 00:14:17
In essence, you're right, there's not like lands, like a lot of thorough landscaping on the entirety of the site, but they but 00:14:20
they meet the 5%. Is this considered an addition or a new build? This is considered an addition, an extension. So it's a site, a 00:14:26
minor site plan amendment. So do you know the existing size of the building that the current building? Oh, the current, I can 00:14:33
measure it out right now, but it's smaller. I think it's 40 something, but. 00:14:39
No, not. It would almost double the size of the entire. 00:14:47
Thing Yeah, yeah, they're taking out a big portion of the building right now and So what you're seeing it is an addition that 00:14:51
footprint contains some of the existing building that that would go away the Google Earth or Street View. Brian, if you want to 00:14:57
show the existing condition that actually might be a better. 00:15:03
Yeah, you can pull that up. 00:15:10
Buildings it's like. 00:15:13
This is the same property owner that's owned it for quite a while, Or this is a newer owner, the same owner. 00:15:15
I'm just bringing up the, so while you're pulling that up, I think one thing we've identified if there's something that says they 00:15:23
need to continue the same look and feel of what they already have, but if what they already have is not up to current standard, we 00:15:30
need to resolve that. I believe, you know, maybe maybe it's just adding a line in there that says, you know, it can match what was 00:15:37
approved at the time or we say very clearly it can't. So there's people just know what to build for. 00:15:45
Yeah, yeah. That, that, that that's my key thing here, because I know you said there's some leeway, but most everything that the 00:15:53
Planning Commission can and should take on is fairly black and white. And when it's not black and white, we should find ways to 00:15:59
make it more that way. So someone doesn't come and wonder, is this going to be approved or not? It should be very clear. If I 00:16:05
submit this, it will get approved, or if I submit this, it will get rejected, honestly. 00:16:11
Yeah, I mean, you may want to consider having the applicant go through a text amendment. 00:16:19
I think it's because of saying no Milton metal material. Yeah. I don't. I don't see a way that we can approve metal. Yeah. You 00:16:26
don't want to pull that language if this has no, no. And then if if the next applicant comes in and says, well, I'm doing 00:16:32
something else that's directly opposed to what the code says. But you proved the last guy. You know, I'm not comfortable approving 00:16:38
things that can you show prohibited. Yeah, I know where I know where it's at. 00:16:44
And while you're looking that up, I guess that would be my position to Anthony that. 00:16:52
You know, initially I was saying absolutely not. 00:17:06
But I didn't know that the first building was built. 00:17:09
Under a different premise than what we currently have now is code. 00:17:13
And so then I was leading toward, well, let's make it so that it's consistent looking. We don't want to have two different looking 00:17:18
buildings there. But but I do think whatever it is, we decide needs to be crystal clear so that we can go back in future request 00:17:25
to say this exception was made because of this or it wasn't made because of that. So I, it looks like it's, it's gone out factory 00:17:33
finished metals. So I, I'm assuming that's something with a high gloss that. 00:17:40
Reflective and that's probably the, the reason is the code probably doesn't want the neighbor to have reflections coming out right 00:17:48
into their further windows. And so maybe we have we, we look at the cut sheet a little bit closer because it doesn't seem like 00:17:53
it's saying you can't be available, but it's saying basically the factory finished metal. And so we need to find out there. I'm 00:17:59
sure there's a industry definition that we can pull from that, but the rest of that is talking also about like the reflective 00:18:05
nature. 00:18:10
You know, high grass pants and like those kind of things that I think. 00:18:18
Technically Utah. Utah is a very pro developer state so you get some good and bad from that. 00:18:54
Good, because it's put the priority on property rights that in a sense that like when whenever from a City side, when you're 00:18:58
reviewing something, if there is a conflict, typically the the property owner gets the benefit of that conflict. And so so we we 00:19:06
do so that's kind of when we looked at that, it was you know, like I know that that that's even not extremely. 00:19:14
Specific, but they they do have an existing predominant material. 00:19:23
And they're proposing extent. So I think what we should do is look more at the material that they, that they have like a good 00:19:29
touchy look at the definition for the factory finished metal and, and, and it might be something where they could paint it or, or, 00:19:35
or, or coat it or, or something else. If, if the current material doesn't mean whatever that industry standard is, how much would 00:19:41
you say probably don't have cost, but you know, in the design improvements they've done already that are above and beyond, it's 00:19:47
already there. 00:19:53
I'm assuming they there's a cost that they yeah, I wouldn't know that number. I can, I can ask him and get back to you guys, but I 00:19:59
don't know exactly. 00:20:04
I know we're it doesn't sound like we're gonna vote on us tonight. I'm inclined based off of that and almost grandfathering in of 00:20:09
it's an existing building with the same owner that you know, kind of has retained the right. So if you would approve it based off 00:20:14
of that, I wouldn't put any new requirements on them. There's no additional health and safety concerns here. They need frontage 00:20:18
requirements. 00:20:22
It's, you know, a right that they've had since. Would you like to look at the conditions of approval that I've laid out? So I 00:20:29
think overall they they would improve the. 00:20:35
The project. 00:20:42
Let me. 00:20:46
And currently is there an occupant in the building that is manufacturing? 00:20:50
They're getting a new. 00:20:56
And the name that you read earlier of the business university to occupy the entire building, not just the extension. 00:21:00
I don't know that, I don't know that I think, I think they are. I think that's like, I think that's yeah, they do like the the 00:21:09
polls for freeway signs. Yeah. So it sounds like it's going to be primarily metal construction manufacturing. You talked about 00:21:16
guardrails, bridge rails, all metal signs. Are there any concerns at all on the cities part about that which they will be 00:21:23
manufacturing and how it will be housed and processed and so on? This falls under our highest. 00:21:29
Impact Commercial district The manufacturing district. 00:21:37
And to the manufacturing zone. And so because of that, there is an there is an expectation that there's going to be some noise, 00:21:40
vibration, that kind of stuff that comes from manufacturing. So if there was like residential nearby and they're coming in for a 00:21:45
rezone for this and then, you know, we probably would have some concerns. But in this case, that's that and it's set up for it. 00:21:50
OK, Yeah. 00:21:55
So I have let me bring up the. 00:22:02
Conditions. 00:22:05
So here, here are the conditions that I thought would add a little more to this building. Conceal all mechanical equipment. The 00:22:08
1st 2 are kind of the standard conditions approval that we test everything. 00:22:13
The application label all the non vegetative decorative ground cover, which they did not do in the landscape plan, but they 00:22:20
labeled all of their other tree species, their shrubs, everything else. 00:22:25
8 stalls and the requirement right now as it stands as this. 5 The Upton Shelley Ball Black, a backflow prevention device for 00:23:01
irrigation lines for landscaping that will be independently owned and maintained by Vernon City Definition. Ensure adequate soil 00:23:07
preparation which will be suitable to provide healthy growing conditions for the plants and to encourage water infiltration and 00:23:13
penetration. Water Manager shall inspect for compliance of this item during a final inspection. 00:23:19
And this last one, they've actually already met. So this has to do with the 20 foot landscaping bucket when I wrote this staff 00:23:26
report. 00:23:30
Just before on Friday, on Thursday started on Thursday, they hadn't met that landscaping yet, so they had sent me an amended site 00:23:35
plan for that. 00:23:40
So and everything but the architectural design of the building, they're, they're pretty much squared off. 00:23:47
Is landscaping and all these extras actually part of what's needed for an addition though? I can see for new build, but for an 00:23:56
addition you would have to do that as well. Yeah. I mean, the requirement is that the area that's being developed come into 00:24:02
compliance. And so because of this, their driveway is further to the east of where their additions going. And so, so I mean, it 00:24:08
allows us some leeway to kind of go, OK, you don't have to do the entire site, but you need to be at least the percentages that 00:24:13
would be. 00:24:19
From that portion, so some of that got applied to where the driveways coming in and different areas of the site. But you know, 00:24:26
overall we we think like they didn't met the kind of the spirit of, of that of the landscaping requirements. But yeah, we're, 00:24:32
we're not making them do the entire site. The entire site is like 37 acres. 00:24:38
When? 00:24:45
This road, is this road going to be continuing 1750 N will that continue to the West? 00:24:47
It is, I don't know if I want to speak more to that, but the idea is that that would loop with 1600 N and so 1750 I don't believe 00:24:53
goes further than where it, it goes to the West of the loops, loops the South. So where they're going to, are they going to be 00:25:00
required to finish the landscaping along that edge of their property? 00:25:07
They have to do the landscaping that is adjacent to, to the addition that, that, that that's what's required. But I think in this 00:25:17
they're proposing to do it. Yeah. So I think they're proposing to do even more than what's the minimum requirement. 00:25:25
It looks like it ends at Pioneer Lane. 00:25:34
And if that's looping around. 00:25:37
Then it looks like the landscaping is just gonna end. And who's gonna? 00:25:41
Yeah, I think the landscaping just ends, but it goes down the street east on 1750 N quite a ways. 00:25:47
Yeah, it it goes for their existing building apparently, right? This is kind of an overview of how much landscaping they're doing. 00:25:55
Sorry, Bryce, I didn't mean to cut you off. 00:26:05
There's there's an even better one that if you go up it'll show the whole site. 00:26:09
I don't think I have this one. What you're what you're saying might be on the agenda. 00:26:14
I'll go, I'll go on the agenda. 00:26:20
So he said page 50. 00:26:22
Yes, page 50. 00:26:26
Is this page 50? 00:26:33
So if you just go. 00:26:36
Right up top there and you see Pioneer Lane. 00:26:38
If 1750s continuing to the West. 00:26:42
I would think that that landscaping should continue to the West. 00:26:47
And I don't know if 1750 will loop around back to 1600 on on their property. I can't imagine that it does with the tracks there. 00:26:51
But. 00:27:01
It says we've approved these other plans and like looking down the road at other plans, we've approved just the landscaping, not 00:27:06
even looking at the buildings, which the buildings of the most recent plans we've approved look really good, but their landscaping 00:27:12
looks really good and it would just be a bummer to be like landscaping looks good, buildings look good and now the buildings look 00:27:17
really bad and there is no landscaping. 00:27:23
Right. 00:27:29
I think that's a reasonable condition is to add a condition that when 1750 is extended that the landscaping be installed. We 00:27:31
probably would need a bond for it, but it's hard to know. I mean that's something to see where Emily can talk to you. Do you guys 00:27:38
know when 60 or 1750 is planned to be extended? 00:27:45
There's there's no, there's no planet there. It's on the it's on the long range plan for them to do that, but there's not an 00:27:58
immediate plan. It sounds like it's not their requirement to improve the part in front of their property. That's second separate 00:28:06
owners of that land where we typically. But with this they have to provide access to the to their property. And so like even if. 00:28:15
Road was just a dead ended Rd. that they they wouldn't be required to do more than than what what they're proposing. But if the 00:28:23
road extends. 00:28:27
You know, I mean, we could try to get them to put landscaping in before, but I, you know, it's hard because then when the register 00:28:32
does that tear up the landscaping and then are they having to replace it? 00:28:37
But if you if this is being continued, I mean that's a conversation we could have with with Chris. If you're, if you're wanting us 00:28:44
to dig further into that, we're happy to do so. Trying to remember morning if we had a similar condition of rule for lot 5 off of 00:28:50
1600 N because it's not that little dead end thing. I can look through see if we have something like that because that one's also 00:28:55
supposed to be that road supposed to be extended in front of their property line. Yeah, we did have assembles on another 00:29:00
conversation on that. 00:29:06
Thing that we approved was not 5 the concrete. 00:29:12
No, that was the triangle 1600 N that you're talking about, Brian, at the end of 1600 N. 00:29:17
Yeah, it's kind of a. 00:29:25
It's this one. 00:29:28
Enigma. 00:29:30
I think that that one actually shows it, yeah. So they. 00:29:33
They took the landscape right in front of the building. 00:29:36
Yeah, they might have just gone ahead and did it anyways. 00:29:39
OK. 00:29:42
But I'll look through, I can look through our previous staff reports and see what conditions are attached to this one. So after 00:29:43
you showed that language, I definitely see how in the developer side you know they're following what was already existing there. 00:29:49
Even if it doesn't necessarily meet the standalone requirements now, I'd still feel more comfortable if we updated the text to be 00:29:55
clear on because those seem to be conflicting. 00:30:01
Continuing what's already there versus what are the actual standards? 00:30:08
And so maybe mention even just add a line there saying that they are OK to proceed with things that are non conforming as long as 00:30:12
it matches what's existing there or that they're not. I think it's good to clarify there in this situation where it currently 00:30:18
stands, I think I'd agree where we probably need to find a path forward to yes for them since you could definitely interpret that 00:30:24
as keep building what's already been built. And you're not saying a text amendment that they submit this would be I think we I 00:30:30
think we need to clean that up. 00:30:36
There's great area that we come across that's great area for the developers too. That doesn't do anyone favors to have. We're 00:30:42
actually doing that now. So Rachel's setting up a rewrite of the site and building standards and so that's something that we can 00:30:48
incorporate in that code. So she's going to look at like additions to existing buildings of what are standards. How much could 00:30:54
this this site brought up a lot of questions, especially because it's not like just a straight, you know, rectangle fronting right 00:31:00
of way. It's kind of a dead end that. 00:31:06
But then you're pulling your driveway across the front end that's already built, you know, So what, what should standards be for, 00:31:12
for, for like an addition and some of those unique situations, right, that I feel like. 00:31:20
If there's a way to. 00:31:28
Still encourage it to be in the other part of the code. 00:31:32
Achieving a sense of human skill and create visual interest at eye level that's important to our city moving forward and well, it 00:31:38
I feel like there could be a good. 00:31:45
Coming together of. 00:31:54
Continuing, it was always. 00:31:57
There before. 00:32:00
But then making it also better. 00:32:02
Yeah, because I, I mean. 00:32:05
I feel like there is. 00:32:10
A wording for that we can create. 00:32:12
In a text amendment yeah, no, I that's a really good idea and so you know maybe you're able to 'cause there are things that you 00:32:15
can do that could still make a compatible design with an edition. And and you often see that where maybe these some of the 00:32:21
materials but materials are upgraded. Maybe there's more windows like on the entrance Brian work with them on the entrance to 00:32:27
provide more of a substantial entrance with the design feature over it we have them put in some windows and so I think I think 00:32:33
we're going on the same page like write it so. 00:32:39
Use this same predominant material, but that it's heightened and so it's still compatible, but you have a nicer addition. 00:32:45
But are we are we saying that we need to put forth a text amendment and then have them go through that because I don't know what 00:32:54
what we're saying. We would do that through the tax amount of that we're or that Rachel was drafting. OK, that's a good for right 00:33:01
now. Do they have are they vested with the current codes that the city has? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how it works. So whatever 00:33:09
code is is adopted when you apply. 00:33:16
Your application is dusted under the standards. That's right. So just in this case it's a, it's a little confusing, but there's, 00:33:24
there's enough in there that I, we think it's, it's still approvable. 00:33:30
You know, if you wanted to see more added to to the the building, we could we could you know, work with the applicant from here 00:33:37
until now or you could approve it with conditions or you could prove it as is seems like the landscaping maybe the frontage if if 00:33:44
you wanted to see the the landscaping extend across that the entire frontage at least for the addition. 00:33:52
That's something you could, you could put as a condition or you could continue and we we could discuss it with applicant. However 00:34:00
the Commission would like to proceed. We're we're happy to to move forward with it either way. 00:34:07
The visuals. 00:34:17
That part of that very specific part of the code that they are not compliant with. 00:34:19
One more quick question, isn't this also right where the? 00:34:24
Trail goes by. 00:34:30
Or the proposed trail. 00:34:32
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the Linden Heritage Trail goes right here. 00:34:34
And then wraps around these two buildings. 00:34:39
Time. 00:34:42
Yeah, it will seem can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it does go down in this direction through this area I think. 00:34:44
And then connects to the lakefront. 00:34:54
Yeah. 00:35:01
Yeah, it'll be visible, but they that being said, they do have a slanted fence in front of the whole building. So you won't be 00:35:06
able to see a lot of it. Most of the the people who will see it will people that are there either to work or that are visiting for 00:35:11
whatever reason. I must say it's not even really the building, more the landscaping around the building. OK, So you're more 00:35:17
concerned about the landscaping, OK. 00:35:23
So exactly what? What changes with the Planning Commission like to see on this? 00:35:31
Landscaping that goes across the I mean, either that or a bond or something that ensures that the landscaping will eventually be 00:35:36
there when it might be easier. I mean they might not love this, but having them just extend it now and and and build, build it as 00:35:45
one and then when they extend the street just tell them to be careful. I mean they may have to replace the landscape here, but. 00:35:53
That that might be better than having a bond, especially since we don't know when the when it's next day, it could be 10 years and 00:36:03
then who staff members aren't aren't even going to remember. 00:36:07
OK, Yeah, I, I. 00:36:11
That's how I would learn, and I'd be interested to kind of hear their take on that. Yeah. I wish they were here. Yeah. Yeah. You'd 00:36:15
think with something like this that they'd be here. 00:36:21
Urban emotions or does anybody want to continue it or? 00:36:29
I think my thinking would be to make a motion to continue this until a future meeting. I think it was proposed in January. Is that 00:36:34
right? If there's not another meeting in December, so whatever the next meeting is. 00:36:40
To continue it to that time and in the meantime have the the city get back with the. 00:36:46
The owner about our concerns about landscaping and so on, especially and the conditions proposed, yeah. 00:36:55
OK. And then I think Tay, you had something on the material of the bill. Are you wanting to see just more done with the with the 00:37:03
elevation? Yeah, I'd like to see if we're done with that so that it is visually appealing. 00:37:08
You can still utilize the same material, but maybe add some more. 00:37:16
You know, some more relief variations in Mossad or something material. There's a lot of do they can have color materials. 00:37:20
Yeah, they could do it. No, they're not. They don't talk about that. They could. They could do a little more, Yeah, I think. But 00:37:27
yeah, I mean. 00:37:33
Mate, give it a little human element. 00:37:40
Yeah, great. Do you have a second on Tim's motion? I'll second. 00:37:42
All in favor, aye? 00:37:49
And moving at 4.2. Conditional use permit for building O of the yard. 00:37:52
OK. 00:37:57
OK, let me put that up on the screen. 00:38:03
I. 00:38:12
Between the screens. OK, there we go. 00:38:22
I thought it was going to take John Cena. 00:38:27
Can you do that into the mic next time please? 00:38:41
OK, this next application. 00:38:47
Is being submitted by Carla Mata with X Development, our good friends from X Development and. 00:38:50
This is for a minor side plan amendment as well for the Yard A. 00:39:00
The original yard A site plan was approved by the Planning Commission on March the 20th, 2019. It was recently amended on November 00:39:06
the 2nd, 2002. And this amendment officially removed the drive through that used to wrap around Building P. So you guys are it's 00:39:13
fresh in your memories. So the primary purpose of tonight's proposal is to amend the site plan and to add the drive through to 00:39:21
Building O. 00:39:28
This drive thru does require a conditional use permit because it is located between the front facade of the building and the front 00:39:37
property line. The drive through does meet our standard requirements for aisle with stacking, landscaping, ingress and egress 00:39:44
etcetera. And all of the original elevations that were approved back in March 20th, 2019 remain unchanged. So essentially we're 00:39:51
just. 00:39:58
Approving this drive through. 00:40:05
So the applicant is here to answer any questions and I'll let them come forth to speak to you. 00:40:08
If you have a question. 00:40:16
My only question is. 00:40:20
Any learnings from the other just to the South of it that's basically the same setup with the with the drive throughs that same 00:40:23
way. Any any issues or anything like that that you've learned from or seen or that you would change? Just want to make sure we're 00:40:28
not pushing anything forward this you can see any issues. 00:40:33
When you said the One South of it, you're talking about this, the soda one and the Little Caesars one. Yeah, it's almost, almost 00:40:43
identical, right? With the same setup, Yeah. 00:40:48
Here's some conditions of rule that we discussed with them. The applicant shall screen the drive through aisle from view of the of 00:40:55
the street for Buildings N&O&P using a landscape berm, decorative wall, vertical landscaping, combination thereof at least three 00:41:02
feet high as measured from the top of the back of the curve adjacent to the drive aisle to be screened. The applicant shall 00:41:09
provide a building entrance on the building side facing the front yard. I believe they've done that now. 00:41:16
With their amended documents. 00:41:24
And they have been doing this but this will will receive these amendments for all these buildings as as they continue to build the 00:41:27
buildings. The applicant shall show on the site plan on the master site plan all exterior building entrances on all sides of 00:41:36
buildings JGKLMNONP before the applicant can submit for a building permit and the applicant pays and then these are two standard. 00:41:46
Conditions of approval. 00:41:58
Any other questions or do I have a motion? 00:42:03
Just a question about #3 is it, can you just give us some more background about that? Yeah. So there's some buildings that show 00:42:06
the doors, all the doors on the master site plan, all the doors of the buildings and some that don't. And so I'd like to see 00:42:10
those. 00:42:15
So. 00:42:23
We just want consistency in design, that way whoever is interpreting the site plan. 00:42:24
Knows what, Sir? 00:42:30
I don't have any other questions. All right. I'm going to make a motion, right. I move to approve the site plan as presented with 00:42:35
the proposed conditions from staff. Sorry, a second, second. 00:42:39
All right. All in favor, aye. All right. Thank you guys. 00:42:44
4.3 Public hearing zoning text amendment. 00:42:50
Should I open this up for a public hearing right now? 00:43:01
Yeah. And open this up for public, I do some move second, second. 00:43:04
All right. All in favor, aye. 00:43:09
All right, So this is a city initiated zoning text amendment. Hopefully it'll pull up here in a second. 00:43:15
And and basically what we're trying to do is just tidy up our code to match the state code and do a few small changes that I'll 00:43:23
show you. Let me drag this over. 00:43:27
I don't like this extended display. There we go. 00:43:34
So this is where we're mostly talking about talking about public noticing and, and what we've noticed is that the state doesn't 00:43:38
require us to post in newspapers public notices, but our code does. And so we're trying to remove that from the code. It's just 00:43:45
something that can cause a delay in the in the development process because the only newspaper that we can go to is the Salt Lake 00:43:52
Tribune and we have to reach out to them like I think Wednesday a week before the Planning Commission meeting. 00:44:00
Or before the public notice is required and just add some time and delay. And there's been a few public notices that we've sent 00:44:08
out and they never responded to us and then it was too late and we missed that deadline. 00:44:13
And so we're just trying to clean up that up out of our code so we don't have to deal with it anymore. Like I said, it's it's not 00:44:20
required by state law anymore. And then there's a few other things. 00:44:25
Maybe before you go on, sure, let me just ask a question because as I was reading through that, I thought. 00:44:32
Value does public notice in newspapers add if any, do we get more public comment because it's in the newspaper? Because I, I'd 00:44:38
like to go back and say, are we simply trying to meet law during minimum level of law or do we really want to get public input? I 00:44:45
mean this, this notice was put in the newspaper and there's not a lot of people here for it. You know, I, I don't think that there 00:44:53
has been a lot of people that go. 00:45:00
Typically to the Salt Lake Tribune to see the public notices for what's going on in Vineyard. What we do currently, I can give 00:45:08
that background. When you do a public notice is we do post it on our website. We post it on the Utah public notice website. We 00:45:15
post it here in this building or wherever the meeting is taking place. And then we also mail it to affected entities. So if 00:45:21
somebody want to do like a conditional use in your neighbor, we'd mail you. 00:45:28
A physical copy of the notice saying your neighbor is trying to. 00:45:35
Apply for this conditional use permit. We're having meetings on these dates. You can come to the meetings. So I, I don't think 00:45:39
that there's any, you know, cons of removing. I really don't think a lot of people are, are relying solely on the Salt Lake 00:45:44
Tribune to see what's going on with the city. 00:45:50
And why is it the Tribune that were obligated to just have to be a major newspaper? Yeah, major local newspaper. And we, we had 00:45:56
some issue with the Daily Herald. And so we stopped posting for, with them and went just to the Salt Lake Tribune. But like I 00:46:04
said, we've just had some issues with them. And once again, it's just I, I don't know if it's necessary. 00:46:11
Yeah, Yeah, it is. It is expensive as well. They do charger spaced off of the line that it takes up in the newspaper. 00:46:21
So the average. 00:46:28
Notice would run anywhere from 60 to $100.00 with the Salt Lake Tribune. So we have no data that says we get X number of more P 00:46:30
correct for advertising students. And this is something else we can try to do is work with our social media team to see if they 00:46:36
could start posting it more frequently on our social media. Because I think that's probably where you're going to get the most 00:46:42
visibility on any kind of public notices is through social media. Notify people that they can subscribe to, Right? Yeah. That 00:46:48
that's one of the best, yeah. 00:46:54
Yeah, whenever we do post a public notice on our website, if you are signed up for alerts, you will get an e-mail and a text. 00:47:02
That's the best way Long. Yep, absolutely. So that's something we can work on with our social media team. Maybe once a year they 00:47:08
could put out something on social media saying have you signed up for our public noticing alerts? Here's how you do it. 00:47:14
A question on this is there any value in us having anything other than we follow Utah State code like why? Why would we have 00:47:21
anything in here other than? 00:47:26
We do what's required in Utah State code. I might be able to answer if I make a great question. Something I learned when I was 00:47:32
studying for the ACP is that, like us planners, we have a responsibility to try to reach as many people as possible, especially 00:47:38
people who might be. 00:47:44
Marginalized, there might not be a privilege or whatever. And there's actually a a surprisingly large number of people over the 00:47:51
age of I think it was like 50 or 60. We don't have Internet access. And so with that comes trying to promote these kind of 00:47:59
meetings in a more traditional accessible way for people who don't have that. 00:48:06
I don't know. I personally don't know how the state code has changed though. That's the question for cash. So I think that that's 00:48:14
kind of the spirit of why that probably exists. 00:48:18
People are coming in. I think that's always good. And I know that's covered in here too. But all right. I was just checking to see 00:48:24
if it's just more duplication. That's most of this amendment is just getting rid of that published in a newspaper of a general 00:48:29
circulation in the area and then adding posted in other locations as required by Utah State code. And then there's a few other 00:48:35
smaller changes as I scroll here. 00:48:41
And it's that we are going to add it as an optional thing that we can do. Rachel might want to clarify me if I'm wrong here. But 00:48:47
it's pretty much saying that if it is something, maybe if it was something as big as updating the general plan, then we would 00:48:53
still go to the newspaper. We still could go to the newspaper. 00:49:00
So we're not removing it as the city will never do this, but it's more of a the city may do this and I'm wondering if there's an 00:49:07
opportunity to use HO as and have things posted in their creational facilities. 00:49:15
And we can work with our neighborhood services coordinator who's kind of working on building those those relationships to see if 00:49:26
that's something that they'd be willing to do as well. 00:49:30
Does Vineyard City have a permanent record series where it's retaining a copy of all of its public notices currently, or is it 00:49:35
relying on the Open Meetings website for that? 00:49:40
And you know, I don't know, I think Pam is using laser fish for, for, for, for like maintaining most of these records. So there is 00:49:46
a system set up. But I, you know, if, if you want, I could, I could say something else more than chat with her about it. So I so I 00:49:53
have a couple other specific questions and comments here. So personally, I actually use University of Utah digitizes all Daily 00:50:00
Herald Tribune and I've been through almost all of the Utah County notices. 00:50:08
I noticed a lot of government entities are using that to fulfill their their retention requirements, but it's actually not set up 00:50:44
for that. There's no agreement for that. 00:50:47
Yeah, we definitely retain them and there's a record series we could talk with with them and that actually might be a good 00:51:22
training too. It's it's just like how how Pam does our records. I think that'd be pretty informative for the Commission. It looks 00:51:28
like on our website they go back to 2017 is what's accessible on our website. But we have to think it it has to go back to 00:51:33
essentially the founding and we had city authors essentially since the city was established. It has been what 1902 since we've 00:51:39
had. 00:51:45
Municipal authority for, for zoning and a board of adjustments. So she, she keeps all the records. I think it's like billing 00:51:52
permits are like residential billing permits are the one thing we have to keep for a year. But for the most part, I think most our 00:51:58
records are in perpetuity. But we can, we can see it's banking even come during the next meeting. We could probably do like a 00:52:04
little training with her, you know? 00:52:10
No, I wouldn't be comfortable until we know what is the actual process currently. 00:52:18
And because, yeah, we make notice now, but how is it going to be available in the future? And knowing that other entities are 00:52:22
using the public notice website as the archiving piece and it's not set up to do that. I just wanna make sure we, yeah, we're, 00:52:27
we're happy to do that research. And if Pam's available, we'll see if we can get her at the next meeting too, if you guys continue 00:52:33
it. But yeah, we're. 00:52:38
Filling that oh that they absolutely are. They're they're readily available and I I mean, I have seen that. I see it weekly. You 00:52:45
got nothing to post. 00:52:49
To removing the newspaper department as long as there's a permanent record. OK, that makes sense. 00:52:53
OK, and then just the last section in our code, we have this flow chart. 00:52:59
That doesn't actually follow our code mostly this box right here that says following DRC technical review the planner schedule the 00:53:05
public hearing with the Commission and provides notices as required. So this is for specifically for conditional use permits and 00:53:12
we don't require our code doesn't require conditional use permits to go through public notice except for this box here. So if you 00:53:18
look at the all of the section of code talking about conditional use. 00:53:24
It doesn't mention public notice anywhere except for in this one box. And so that's the other thing we're going to do is just 00:53:31
eliminate this box. Just it also doesn't, you know, if we ever want to make other changes with the conditional use permit program, 00:53:37
we'd have to make changes to this box. And so it's just kind of a flow chart that. 00:53:43
That doesn't really help. 00:53:50
So but yeah, we're happy to continue it and and we can work with Pam to see if she would be able to come and kind of give you guys 00:53:53
more of a history on, on what we do with our records retention and make a vote, make a vote from there. So is the box to the right 00:53:59
of that? I'm looking at the right as you look at is it would it also be removed? So we'd remove the whole box, but not just not 00:54:05
just those sections, but the whole flow chart. 00:54:12
Right, right. Yeah. Is is this something we would have to continue or could we put a condition saying? 00:54:19
Something along the lines of in last. 00:54:26
So, and this is actually it is a recommendation for approval to the City Council because it is a text amendment. So you could put 00:54:31
it into, I would assume you could put it into a contribution. 00:54:36
And Pam will be at that next meeting where this is being discussed. 00:54:42
I prefer to just move it and actually have Pam come and explain how are we maintaining the records and, and what's the plan. My, 00:54:48
my assumption is actually it's probably Utah open meetings. A lot of people are just moving into that digital. And if that's the 00:54:55
case, then I think there'd be more conversation there because it's not built to do that. 00:55:01
But OK, we'll move to the public comments right now unless. 00:55:10
Thank you. 00:55:16
All right. If any members of the public have any comments on the specific zoning text amendment, you can come and station name. 00:55:19
If not. 00:55:27
Then I'll drive a motion to close public comments. I make a motion to close our public hearing. 00:55:29
That we don't close it yet. Can we close the public hearing if it's continued? Do we not close the public hearing? You can close 00:55:36
the public hearing and continue the, the, the, the decision on it. That's fine. 00:55:42
All in favor, Aye, All right. Is this something we want to continue? So I I agree we need to hear from Pam. I would be comfortable 00:55:50
making that recommendation with the conditions to the City Council, as long as Pam presented that to the City Council there and we 00:55:56
could we could attend. I would be comfortable with that. But I also understand if you wanted to do that before we can recommend it 00:56:02
City Council. I'm not sure what the I would. 00:56:09
Feel uncomfortable giving a recommendation if we don't know how it is being permanently recorded, like if it if it's something 00:56:15
that has no guarantee of being interested, right? 00:56:22
I mean, I don't think this is high priority per SE. 00:56:31
And then I think go to the Commission with even a recommendation of here's how it should be maintained. OK, I know I like to rely 00:56:38
on the expert in the room and that Chris seems to know that a fair bit more than I do about this. 00:56:45
For an addition or things like that. So it's from a categorical perspective, it makes it much easier to research. What are they 00:57:23
trying to find to, you know, prove precedent or things like that. I'm kind of just to clarify on that. So with like this building 00:57:29
that was getting a site plan amendment that wouldn't be on a public notice, that wouldn't be on the paper. Yeah, that that. So 00:57:35
yes, that that would be just that. We had a meeting tonight and then yeah. 00:57:42
But a rezoning, you know, like I asked about the variance board of adjustments, because normally a board of adjustment, you would 00:57:48
do a public notice for board of adjustment, if I'm correct, we don't really do much. I actually don't think our code requires it. 00:57:53
Really. Yeah. 00:57:57
Yeah. And what other cities I've worked at, and there's been like in Virginia, there was always a public hearing for a variance or 00:58:03
an appeal. 00:58:06
Alright, do I have a motion then? 00:58:12
I'd make a motion to just continue this to January. I have a second. I'll second that. All in favor and this is is this do we need 00:58:15
to roll? OK, we'll roll call. Chris, Tim. Hi, Bryce, I Anthony, Tay, right. That will be continued into our January meeting. Thank 00:58:23
you. All right, moving on to 4.4. 00:58:31
Another public hearing for a general plan amendment to the Active Transportation Plan. 00:58:41
So yeah, if he could continue that one. We have a setup in the in the agenda. 00:58:49
Just to continue though the public hearing notice there's what we're still doing some reviews and some final adjustments. We 00:58:54
thought we'd be ready tonight, but we we still have a little bit further to go. So cool. That would be for if you could contain to 00:59:00
January 4th. OK, appreciate that motion to continue to January do I January 4th 4th alright. And Anthony seconds on this is a roll 00:59:06
call again, Chris. 00:59:12
Tim Bryce. Hi. Anthony Tay, hi. All right. 00:59:19
Thank you. 00:59:24
Moving into work session 5.1 multifamily mixed-use building the yard. 00:59:26
OK, this is Brian McGann, City Planner. This project is one that we've been. 00:59:56
Excited to hear about. So this is the multifamily. 01:00:03
Multi use high density project that's at the end of 400 N just above Edgewater townhomes. And the applicant is they've submitted 01:00:09
for a site plan for this for this building, but they would like to 1st. 01:00:16
Do a work session with the Planning Commission. 01:00:24
On December the 8th, 2021 so almost exactly a year ago, a development agreement was approved by the City Council during a public 01:00:28
hearing to regarding this project. So here's some of the major project features is to refresh your memory. The applicants 01:00:37
proposing 341 residential units on 4.87 acres, 13,720 square feet of ground floor commercial. 01:00:45
A minimum of 15 short term rental units and at least an additional 15 furnished as such deed restricted open space to the east of 01:00:55
their property. Some of that open space is an Orem if I remember correctly. And so that needs to be de restricted that that can 01:01:02
only be used as open space to services project an internal parking structure to service to service the entire development. So this 01:01:09
year. 01:01:16
X Development or 50 mil LLC. 01:01:24
They've been really busy finishing up the Top Golf. We're super happy to see that finalized and it's going to be a great amenity 01:01:27
in assets of the city. And now they're ready to move forward with this project, so they're going to run us through their 01:01:31
presentation. 01:01:35
And I wasn't come forward. 01:01:40
Actually I don't have a thought. 01:01:45
Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah, I got you. 01:01:49
All right. 01:02:06
I. 01:02:13
OK, Eric Towner with X Development. 01:02:21
Wanted to go through. Thanks for taking the time to meet with us tonight. Hopefully it's not too long for you, but I do have a 01:02:25
number of questions as we'd like your input before we continue on with this design. We're pretty far along in the way of 01:02:32
architecture, nearly complete with civil engineering and, and design for that. Excited for this project. This is I think a, a new 01:02:39
style for the city. I don't think there's been something quite like it and in in this area of the valley, I think. 01:02:47
Thing you could see is something a little bit further South, closer to UVU, closer to the pedestrian. 01:02:54
Walkway that goes over to the university for student housing. While this isn't geared specifically for student housing, we do 01:03:01
anticipate there will likely be some students that go to university or Utah Valley University as well as younger families as well 01:03:08
as a good mix of of individuals from varying demographics. And with that, we have taken a year in designing this this project to 01:03:16
this point. A lot of that had to do with working in conjunction with the Top Golf next door. 01:03:23
Wanting to also understand timing for the city on on the rail spur removal that intersection at 400 N and Geneva Rd. Also 01:03:31
understanding. 01:03:36
You know, working with staff for a long time and and how 400 N is going to function. We just want to make sure we do this project 01:03:42
right. 01:03:45
And and I wanted to start out with probably a couple of questions about 400 N and maybe staff can answer some questions for us as 01:03:50
well. So what we have currently designed right here, I'm going to show it because it's easier to view from the landscape view. 01:03:56
This would be an aerial of 400 N with the reverse 45° stalls. Like I said, civil engineering is about 90% complete and we have 01:04:04
submitted for site plan application grading and everything is done to this point. But before we etch that in stone, we'd like to 01:04:11
to just verify and make sure that this design is what the what the city is looking for. So this is 400 N what we would have there 01:04:17
are cars who who had. 01:04:24
Westbound would be able to essentially back into their stalls. Is that what you're envisioning there, Morgan? 01:04:31
Yeah, that's that's what we've discussed initially. The downtown is going to have reverse angle parking. It's safer for for 01:04:38
bicycles. Some customers think they're really annoying though. So it's just one of those things that that we're we're still kind 01:04:44
of discussing. I don't know if Naseem, you want any part of this conversation and discuss some of this. 01:04:50
What are your thoughts? 01:04:57
So in regards to the reverse angle parking, I know we've had this discussion multiple times. So it's at the end of the day read 01:05:00
depends on the speed and also allowing cars to maneuver safely off outside their travel lanes, excuse me in terms of that. 01:05:09
I believe that we provide engineers provide our feedback in terms of how to whether we feel that it would be best to achieve both. 01:05:19
You know the city plans on having this corridor as this. 01:05:26
Slower quarter as they enter the city, sensors residential in the South, commercial in the north. So I think we've addressed that 01:05:34
that's a long range plan after the connections made to Geneva and there's only I believe that I have not yet seen these specific 01:05:40
drawings, but I believe that the developer has shifted the lanes or the parking stalls more to the north, allowing for cars to 01:05:46
maneuver outside their travel lanes in order to. 01:05:52
Deliver parking. Again, they're not going to be completely outside the travel lanes, but there will be at least a good buffer for 01:05:59
our cars to maneuver Safeway. At the end of the day, everybody comes down to attentive drivers. 01:06:05
On both ends of the people driving and the people backing out, they're backing in and backing out for there to be safe, safe, safe 01:06:11
environment. But. 01:06:15
There's any more speed so that it so you can it can, it can work as long as the speeds are like I said, like I said, every comes 01:06:21
down, it comes down to the speed and then the drivers actually drivers knowing and then, you know, allowing for allowing for a 01:06:27
little bit buffer. Because obviously you have some people who are going to choose to drive around those who are not who are, who 01:06:32
are, who are kind of back in. 01:06:37
Into the parking lot sauce. It's hard to engineer for every scenario however we do the best that we can so and I believe that I 01:06:44
mean just look at the drawings on the screen and knowing. 01:06:51
The developers background intent, I believe that that would be would be the way we have in the situation. 01:06:58
Do you have any update on the rail spur or the connection on 400? So the rail spurs though on the projects that we're working on, 01:07:06
it's AI say the train is moving as fast as Union Pacific allows trains to move down the. So we're working with the Union Pacific 01:07:14
FRA, which is the Federal Railroad Administration along with UDOT in terms of. 01:07:23
Getting the scope of the the projects that will work right now we're right now we're working through some environmental 01:07:33
mitigation. 01:07:36
Portions of that. 01:07:40
Environmental medications in terms of the well spur of realignment as consolidation as well as. 01:07:44
Aligned to that, we've submitted 10% designs for Union Pacific to be reviewing again moving as fast as the Union Pacific news as 01:07:54
well as we're working on other fronts with the Federal Railroads Administration for grant money in order to pay for the. 01:08:03
To pay for the environmental medication. So it's moving forward. We anticipate construction started around 2024-2025. Really, 01:08:13
really depends on approvals processes when construction starts. It's not a very lengthy process. We expect it to be done year, 01:08:19
year and a half. Again, the contractors are Union Pacific approved contractors as well. So very limited choices, but again, two 01:08:26
quality people as long as. 01:08:33
Who know how to do the work? 01:08:41
Any other questions here? Is there is there a contract in place with Union Pacific today that's actionable or is there still 01:08:43
pending? 01:08:47
So. 01:08:52
When you say contracts, I will say contractor is an agreement and a preliminary agreement in place. I guess we would call it like 01:08:54
an intent agreement with it's in place, OK. Of course everything relies on final design, design approvals, etcetera. 01:09:03
OK, very good. 01:09:13
We can bring that back to your heart. Are we planning a light on 400 N and Mill Rd. 01:09:45
OK, yes. 01:09:52
I don't know if that's been 100% determined. 01:09:54
So nasing the door again that is in the cities future plans, it's been denoted on the active transportation plan at the long run 01:09:59
by this owner. So sorry. 01:10:07
But of course under active transportation plan specifically for the pedestrian crossing and I know that the city is seeking, 01:10:16
seeking to get that that's air traffic signal. 01:10:21
You know, put in place because a lot of the surrounding development relies on improvements along that corridor in order to be 01:10:28
viable, OK. 01:10:33
I think it's going to be super important getting the light in there before. 01:10:38
If this development is going in before the connection on Geneva Rd. just because it's a lot more right there. 01:10:42
Cool, You can continue. Yeah. So here's an existing, the existing office building, medical building here, single story office 01:10:51
building with the pedestrian sidewalk that that goes east towards our project here. As you can see, at the request of staff, we 01:10:58
did move these reverse angle stalls a little to the north and a sidewalk would wrap those over there. We've aligned the driveway 01:11:04
access into the site. 01:11:11
With. 01:11:19
Site that you probably have not seen. 01:11:21
Yet, but will be located across the street and I'm imagining would probably be a requirement of the city. 01:11:25
So this is an access point into the site. 01:11:33
Let's see off of 400 N this will be the main access into the parking structure. 01:11:38
There will be pedestrian connectivity out to the sidewalks across walk across the access point. And this access point will mirror 01:11:45
another access point that for the property that we own to the South here. So we acquired the, the 9 acres South of here as well. 01:11:50
And this there will be an access point here so that they're, they're marrying each other there. I'm I'm sure that would be a 01:11:56
requirement of, of engineering as well. 01:12:02
Moving from there, there is another access point. This is a Top Golf parking lot right here that exists. This would be the north 01:12:10
side of the existing office building, 440 N St. That would access into the parking structure as well. So we have two points of 01:12:16
ingress and egress back here is where we would likely have trash collection and some dry utilities, Rocky Mountain Power boxes and 01:12:22
whatnot over in this area. 01:12:29
Continuing on with the pedestrian connectivity through the site from Topgolf. So we, we anticipate creating a crosswalk right here 01:12:36
with a sidewalk that would go up towards Top Golf and we'll make a pedestrian sidewalk between the existing parking lot for the 01:12:41
medical. 01:12:47
And the. 01:12:52
The new structure for the mixed-use building that would bring pedestrians to the front of the building. And just to clarify, is 01:12:54
the dashed line on the north, is that essentially? 01:12:58
What is that like 20 feet South of the netting for the top golf right here? Yeah, yeah. This dash line on the north here is just 01:13:03
kind of the end of this depiction, but it's it's about probably 50-60 feet from the net. Yeah. 01:13:10
So yeah, that that helps with seeing that this is an an overview. 01:13:20
Bird's eye view of the building right here would be open in between. Topgolf will have a main level parking structure with AI 01:13:26
believe at least 35 additional parking stalls, maybe up to 45 stalls. Currently on this concept that's showing 45. I think that 01:13:33
might be 35. Long term, this area that you see in pink would be commercial here and this would all be commercial over here. 01:13:40
On the main road in front of those reverse stalls. 01:13:48
Moving to the next floor, more parking. The building will wrap the parking garage, so there won't be a lot of visibility to the 01:13:52
parking structure itself from any of the public streets. 01:13:57
And then that'd be another floor and it just kind of mirrors all the way up. 01:14:04
To the top there. 01:14:08
One question we did have is with regards to exterior artwork, murals, things like that, What it what is, is there a requirement of 01:14:11
the city, Is there a process to get those approved? We're seeing a lot of really cool designs downtown in Salt Lake outside of 01:14:18
this market as well as there some type of requirement here. 01:14:25
I believe the mayor and council have been considering developing some sort of committee that would do cultural arts reviews. I'm 01:14:34
not, I'm not a hundred 100% sure. And so we we can double check on that. 01:14:40
The where it says the yard that like the, the mural itself. I mean, we, we would provide obviously some leeway for for art stuff 01:14:48
like that. I mean, there's just some basic First Amendment stuff that we wouldn't want to, you know, try, try to regulate. But 01:14:54
they were says the yard that would be part of the sign. And I believe the sign code that were writing right now would provide a 01:15:00
little bit more flexibility. 01:15:06
It would just still constrain like the size of signs, but it would allow for you to utilize their other areas on the building. And 01:15:12
so I think the sign would fall within compliance of what the proposed code would be. But it's the the mural stuff. We'd have to 01:15:18
look at what process the council's wanting to follow. And if I could just say, Morgan, you mentioned cultural arts, you know, that 01:15:24
type of thing. It would be very helpful and useful to the community have things relative to hit the history and the heritage as 01:15:30
well. 01:15:36
And so I'm hoping that in the definition of cultural arts that we're also including the concept of capturing the heritage and 01:15:43
history of Vineyard as well, whether it be agricultural type or Native American views or steel factory, you know, things like that 01:15:52
would capture what has created this community. So wherever we can do murals, I hope that that's been considered as well. 01:16:01
Right. I, I, I don't know exactly what the kind of parameters surrounding what, what that commissioner committee is going to be. 01:16:11
So we, we can find out and provide more, more information on that. I just, I don't want to say anything that's that's incorrect on 01:16:15
that so. 01:16:20
The Heritage Commission involved, yeah. 01:16:25
We love to be part of that. 01:16:29
OK. Yeah. Well, I'm happy to follow up with the with Ezra on that and see kind of for what they're thinking. 01:16:31
And some visual and interest that kind of provides little areas to help the building up the pop, but don't take away from the 01:17:07
overall kind of architectural escape that you've traded there. So yeah, I'll find out what the mayor wants to do with that and 01:17:12
like what types of regulations will be in place. Okay. 01:17:18
Yeah, and I I do like the idea of keeping some historical concept into the art. That would be great. 01:17:24
The next question I had was going to be on our landscape plan here. 01:17:33
And realizing that there are, you know, code requirements and everything else here, just so we do have that parcel next to us, 01:17:41
which is falls within Orem boundaries, right? 01:17:46
So to to show that parcel here. 01:17:53
Essentially this dark line right here that kind of comes out, we call it our club head lot. It looks like a flag down here. I mean 01:17:59
kind of go straight up here where a lot of our open space is within this lot, which we are, you know, obviously in our development 01:18:06
agreement, we're going to deed restrict this area here and keep it open space. 01:18:13
Is, is there we're going to be needing to have conversations with the city of Orem. We wanted to stop here first. Is there an 01:18:21
anticipation or a location for this path that I I know there's a vision for connectivity and have a path along Geneva Road and I 01:18:28
don't know what the plans are, Morgan for the the lot north of this. So as you go behind Top Golf and keep going north behind the 01:18:34
megaplex, I know that there's been some proposals. 01:18:41
To see our analytic crazy but one in our last we have a monthly meeting with U dot and we had discussed. 01:18:48
How the widening of Geneva Rd. is going to look, really what we need to know is kind of what impact is going to be kind of where 01:18:57
the asphalt is going to end. And if they're proposing a trial, we'd like them to propose a trial issue. We don't then the city is 01:19:02
going to undertake a trail there regardless. And that's something that's been in our long range plan. And so they told us they 01:19:08
would they would provide us at least with a. 01:19:14
And I, I don't believe about what level of design, but it's a kind of a concept Rd. section of what they're think Geneva Rd. Rd. 01:19:21
would be. And that that will help us to then try to match it up kind of with what the open space programming is going to be. And 01:19:28
you'll be able to tell kind of at least where they're where they expanded Rd. would be. And if they're doing a trail, then where 01:19:36
that would land. If not, then just understanding the space would help us know where, where where to put a trail. OK, so as. 01:19:43
Designed right now not understanding that we put our trail not too close to the building but it's it's closer to the building. 01:19:51
Just wanted to make sure we preserve that long term. I don't want it to get eaten up that there is a widening right and it would 01:19:57
be nice to have it be 1 trial and not necessarily having 2 dual trails competing. I've got some pickleball courts in this area as 01:20:04
well up north here. 01:20:11
This is our emergency vehicle access lane right here. It's got some different changes to hardscapes. You'll likely see artificial 01:20:19
turf, some pavers and concrete, some random basketball hoops placed here that will be strategic that you can actually play with, 01:20:27
but not not too invasive to to the site. It's not going to look like somebody just bought the basketball court here. 01:20:35
But this will be a drivable surface for fire. 01:20:45
We do need to provide fire access to this side of the building. 01:20:48
And, and have a hammerhead turn around for them here. I, I think this pickleball court will probably get pushed up into the corner 01:20:53
of this Hammerhead and, and, and have the emergency vehicle access wrap that a little more. We do have some envision some. 01:21:00
Features went with it throughout here and that will play off of the Top Golf. 01:21:08
Environment that people will be experiencing there while while people are hitting golf balls. So we have some gathering areas, 01:21:12
some benches, some fire pits, maybe outdoor ping pong tables made of concrete, outdoor ******** games and whatnot that people can 01:21:19
play. And in this area we just have envisioned as artificial turf for play surfaces or or hangout areas. 01:21:26
Right here, this is sunken below, so Top Golf sits up higher. There will be about a three to four foot retaining wall along this 01:21:37
side right here that will delineate the property line. 01:21:42
Let's see if I can get to. 01:21:52
Very kind of question for you. Yep. Is there a crash gate? 01:21:58
Right at the end of that parking, No, it there's just a, there's just a a drivable curb, curb lip that the emergency vehicles 01:22:01
would just drive right over. 01:22:06
You'll have the pavers that'll kind of distinguish the regular driveway from where the fire accesses or yeah. So what they do is 01:22:12
with trees or bollards purposes, it's not really known to this won't be known most likely to most people that it's a drivable 01:22:18
surface here, but it it will be very well known within the the fire department throughout. 01:22:25
Here's a concept of a. 01:22:34
Kind of a hangout spot with a fire pit right here. Umm. 01:22:37
As another fire pit concept and these imagine these pushed up against the top golf net property boundary line. Outdoor gathering 01:22:41
areas back there again will be drivable. There will be a clear marked area for the vehicles to drive through, but it will look 01:22:48
more like a hangout area than anything else. 01:22:54
Let's see. 01:23:07
So those are my questions about the site. Do you know about like the type of of of retail? I mean there there's been a lot of 01:23:10
interest in getting and you guys have done a great job getting kind of sit down restaurants and I think there's some interest in 01:23:16
you guys know, is there anything you know you'd be able to announce or, or or there's there's people that that are looking or even 01:23:22
just like categorically like what you're looking at for like the store frontages. Yeah, we are targeting kind of there is an 01:23:28
executive office suite concept that. 01:23:34
Is moving into suburban areas that's small it's not like a giant we work but they're they're smaller and they have rentable office 01:23:40
suites and conference rooms for people who are mostly work at home that could that could rent on an hourly basis that's one 01:23:46
concept we're looking at another concept we're looking at is an instructional facility that. 01:23:53
Works with nutrition and health. 01:24:00
Those types of uses is what we've targeted so far. We have not marketed this very hard and not talked to very many people about 01:24:05
it. 01:24:08
I will say food is going to be a little tough as far as the design of the building with the smells and getting the ventilation 01:24:13
right. We have explored that and we are anticipating being able to accommodate that if we find the right food use. Mike Gregory 01:24:18
would be awesome to have a sit down restaurant at the bottom floor here. 01:24:23
But that that is something that we is more complex than than I can explain as far as the smells and and the ventilation goes for 01:24:30
the rest of the building. 01:24:35
Is this mostly rental misconnect? 01:24:43
Yeah, this, this whole unit, this whole project, 341 units, pretty good mixed-use between one bedroom studio and two-bedroom 01:24:46
units. Some of them are more luxury, some of them are are pretty standard. 01:24:51
A good option for for a lot of people and then again some of these will be for short term rental purposes as well. We'll have a 01:24:58
full time staff on site to operate it more kind of like you would see a hotel operate. 01:25:05
So, so could you have this remind us what the short term rental is like a hotel a few days a week? Yeah, it could be anything from 01:25:12
one, one night to to 30 nights. So somewhere in that range. 01:25:19
So something that we've talked about a little bit here on the Commission as we've been dealing with different parking problems 01:25:29
with different. 01:25:33
What difference? 01:25:37
Neighborhoods. 01:25:39
Will you guys have a parking plan that you can bring to us so we can see? Yeah. Wait, so we're in the process of creating that 01:25:42
parking study. 01:25:45
For this project and not just the study, but how it will be managed, how you plan on doing out the turning stalls and stuff, I 01:25:49
think would be super helpful for us as we try to determine how we want to enforce that because with a lot of different places 01:25:54
that. 01:26:00
Have built, they've said that they're going to manage the parking and then they don't. And then the residents come to the city and 01:26:07
they're like, oh, you let them. 01:26:12
Build this and they didn't build enough parking when in reality is really just a management issue. 01:26:17
Yes, completely a management issue. And so I think yeah, Bryce, absolutely right. We see where the apartment complexes are really 01:26:23
on top of it. I mean, there's there'd be a couple problems, but it's really not that bad. But it's it's the ones that are just 01:26:28
kind of a free for all. Like that's this Tay knows. 01:26:33
From where she's at, but it's even gotten better there. But it's, you know, it's hard to compare it so yeah. But any kind of 01:26:39
parking plan on how we can see that so that. 01:26:46
If there is ever is a problem in the future, we can point it back like, hey, this is how it was approved, this is how it's being, 01:26:53
it should be being managed and so forth. I think could be really helpful. Yeah. So there is a parking study underway that would 01:26:59
that will include it's a, it's a full parking consultant firm that that helps us both manage parking, monetize parking as well for 01:27:05
us. And so there is there is a. 01:27:11
Again, management is key to making sure that the parking is handled appropriately and that the the renters are, you know, obeying 01:27:19
what the the requirements are of their lease. 01:27:24
Is there one entrance in the same? 01:27:30
Exit location for the parking garage, where is the exit on a different location? Yeah, so both both there are two ingress and 01:27:34
egress locations within on the parking garage. Both of them are are enter and exit. So you can go both ways on each. 01:27:42
I got a question for people wanting to use the commercial space. Can they park inside of the of the parking garage? And then if 01:27:53
they can, how do they get into the commercial? Yeah, so we're working on with our architectural design. So like right here, I 01:27:59
think you'll see there's a breezeway that we've created from within the parking structure itself working currently on, you know, 01:28:05
pedestrian processes through the parking structure itself. 01:28:11
Exactly where the stairwells go, the elevators go. 01:28:18
How people get from their cars to those locations. But yes, we are working on a couple of breezeways from the parking structure to 01:28:22
get to the main level outside. 01:28:26
And they're also, they're also doing the street parking that little. 01:28:33
And I'll provide some, some nice pull up right, right to the, you know, front doors. 01:28:37
Yeah. And we will, we will meet or exceed any of the parking requirements for this, for this project as well. But I think. 01:28:42
We just, we just need to manage it the right way. 01:28:51
Any other questions? 01:28:57
I think it looks great. So as far as the site plan goes, yeah, that's before I did want to move over to the architecture in just a 01:29:00
second. So as far as the site plan goes, aside from obviously needing to meet engineering standard code requirements, anything 01:29:06
else, is there any input or or something that you guys envisioned that we're not showing? 01:29:12
On the site plan itself, the overall site plan. 01:29:20
I'd say if you could detail the courtyard amenities, I I think that that'll be pretty important. And then there's always the 01:29:26
question about dogs. Yeah, you know, are, are, are you just not going to allow dogs or is there going to be at least a dog run or 01:29:32
something that that could accommodate? So this area right here is is made as a dog park right here that will be fenced in. And 01:29:38
then over here is where we will encourage. 01:29:44
You know, owners who are feel feel more comfortable that they don't have to be in here, that their dogs are trained to a level 01:29:52
that they can hang out around them. But this is the. 01:29:56
The pet area right here. 01:30:00
Eric, another comment is. 01:30:03
I know that the top Golf and and this multifamily building from a partner development, but they will be treated separately in 01:30:07
terms of requirements, in terms of like landscape requirements. 01:30:13
Building design, any sort of calculation that we need to run parking that they just to keep in mind that they're treated 01:30:20
separately. So like for example, like trees that might be on the top golf side won't count towards like this this project and 01:30:26
shrubs and things like that. 01:30:31
OK, there's no other comments on the site. I'd like to move to architecture. 01:30:42
If we can. 01:30:48
OK. So as far as exterior materials go, we'll have some thin brick, obviously some stucco, some Ethus, I believe there's some 01:30:52
metal and some some faux kind of wood looking materials. Here is what we've been working through up to this point. 01:31:00
Is there something that that I'm missing here? Is there a variation that was envisioned that we're not achieving with this type of 01:31:10
look or this type of concept? 01:31:14
I think especially with the murals it looks great. 01:31:22
Personally. 01:31:24
I think it'd be awesome if the city could. 01:31:27
Make that happen. So we are trying to highlight. So this mural right here would actually be kind of like the direct angle that's 01:31:29
looking from the topic of hitting base. You'd be looking directly at that mural, it comes to a point in the building up to that 01:31:34
mural right there. 01:31:40
At one point I wanted to make that a giant outdoor TV screen, but. 01:31:49
That got thrown out really fast. 01:31:55
How's the with those murals? Are you looking at it like embedding the LED strip lighting or anything like that? Yeah, there's a 01:31:57
number of elements that we could incorporate into the into the mural. I do envision, envision having some type of light to be seen 01:32:04
at night as well. But so you have like architectural light kind of on the outside to yeah. Or recessed and or recessed into the 01:32:11
into the building in China, you know. 01:32:18
And that would be the final look that I think we're going with. This is version. 01:32:28
38 are you planning any like rooftop access, roof, rooftop patio? I I see that you have kind of some individual patios. You wanna 01:32:32
maybe talk about it? 01:32:38
Yes, As far as building amenities go, we are at that point where we're in the process of of designing building amenities that will 01:32:45
have good overlooks. 01:32:50
To the to the top off and whatnot. Exactly. 01:32:56
How those are scheduled or the size or the layout is not done yet. 01:33:02
The part that's over the top golf parking right here. So if you go up to the 6th floor on that piece. 01:33:35
Working on where that mechanical equipment's going to be scheduled, but essentially it would be this corner of the of the building 01:33:43
right on this side or this side of the mural. 01:33:47
And I'll be looking towards the the golfers at Top Golf. 01:33:54
You can put some hitting bays on this side. 01:34:04
We had a. 01:34:09
Idea for maybe a bungee jump off of this? There we go. 01:34:10
Any comments, questions, anything? 01:34:18
Cool. 01:34:25
Yeah, I think that looks great. 01:34:26
Yeah. The only things that I would add are basically just things that need to happen with you in the city and the rail spurs are 01:34:30
really out of your hands stuff is. 01:34:34
OK. 01:34:39
So timing of this looking into the future and I know there's some unknowns right now, but. 01:34:42
What might be? 01:34:48
I think we would have a permit set ready at this point. 01:34:50
Probably at the sentence would be probably four months from now. 01:34:58
To have a permit set and then the process with the review for the city. 01:35:03
Might be a little while until we have that permit ready to pull. 01:35:09
Construction costs are coming down, so that's good. 01:35:16
So maybe a year from now to break ground, yeah, that we didn't, we would anticipate hoping, hoping to have some footings in 01:35:19
hopefully this time next year so they could start going vertical and. 01:35:25
I the build process where we're going to be likely submitting a phase where we could open maybe a portion of the building or wing 01:35:33
of the building. We'll work with staff to see if there's something within the code that we can accomplish that way as this, this 01:35:40
looks to be about a 24 month at least build process for this building. 01:35:46
All right. 01:35:53
Any other questions from staff or? 01:35:57
No, yeah, we'll we'll start, you know, working with X dev to get everything ready for an official site plan review. But yeah, 01:36:00
we're we're excited about this project. We've been anticipating it for about a year now. So it's it's nice to see this portion of 01:36:07
that site build out. So we'll get addition. Great. So awesome. Thank you, Eric. Thank you. 01:36:13
Alright, moving on to 6. 01:36:22
.1 training session for the Utah land use institute but. 01:36:24
So we were going to provide you manuals. 01:36:32
From the state of Utah. They're still sitting on my desk, so I'll give those to your next meeting. Sounds good. 01:36:36
Cool. Then we'll move to Commission member report and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 01:36:44
Anybody have anything to report? 01:36:50
Did anybody go to the Christmas tree lighting? 01:36:54
Yeah, it was very cold, very windy. 01:36:58
But they had some trash cans on fire for us to stay warm by. My kids were singing at it. Lots of floating embers from the trash 01:37:03
can. 01:37:08
So. So there was an elementary school there singing. Yeah, they had. 01:37:14
Cookies for the cookies and hot cocoa for like 100 people there and I would guess there's probably 100 people there. 01:37:20
And I understand Commissioner Welch gave a very short historical sketch. I saw her speaking. I did not. You didn't hear her. 01:37:27
Well, I just wanted to mention that that came about because the Heritage Commission was trying to get involved in that tree 01:37:37
lighting and those are the two ways that we could get involved was to have somebody talk a little bit about the history. So just 01:37:43
moving the mouth is OK. It would be better if you could have heard. 01:37:49
And I think some people I was, I was further back so and the fact that the fact that there was an elementary school choir, there 01:37:56
was also our creation of getting it done through the city so. 01:38:02
I'm glad to have seen that happen, those who were able to be there. 01:38:09
And I guess just a report on me. This is my last meeting. 01:38:14
Ever, ever. After eight years on the Planning Commission, I think this is my last meeting, so thank you. Will you be able to 01:38:19
continue on with the the Heritage? Yeah, that's completely separate. But when you see me down there, don't forget. 01:38:26
Who I am and from whence I've come. Well, and 12 months ago. 01:38:35
Don't get too, you know, relaxed. 01:38:41
You've been, you've been great in the role. You've been very helpful, especially in keeping the reminder to remember where we've 01:38:44
been and, and where we're going. Well, who can I look to to continue that voice in discussions like today? 01:38:50
Hopefully all of us, yeah, I would hope so. Yeah. I'll just raise the hand. That's when I raise it. You say, oh, by the way, can 01:38:57
we put a mirror? The general plan is where you can look to. We should all be looking to that more, right. That's we've throughout 01:39:02
it so. 01:39:06
Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you, Tim, because I appreciate your views on everything. 01:39:11
They're different than my views in some ways, but. 01:39:17
But if you think about things that I, I don't ever think about, and it's great and it brought a massive help to the Planning 01:39:22
Commission and a different point of view. And I very much appreciated that and having you on board. And I have mentioned in 01:39:27
meetings that you're not here that in the spirit of Tim, I'm going to mention this for the Heritage Commission too. That's 01:39:33
happened. I've done that. 01:39:38
I'll try to continue to do that. 01:39:44
Umm, any staff? Yeah. So, umm, no. And I, I appreciate the kind words towards Tim. I wanted to, to just just kind of from the 01:39:47
staff side, tell you just how grateful we are for you. I mean, I, I can tell you from 6 1/2 years ago when I started with the 01:39:54
city, we had I think 2500 residents or so. Tim was so helpful to me. That was the, that was the first full time planner. We had 01:40:01
another. 01:40:07
Some consultants that had helped us out in the past. 01:40:15
But it was a lot of work and you just trying, trying to get, get on with the Commission and understand where development was going 01:40:18
with the city and Tim carried a really heavy load. I I remember Tim wrote the first bylaws for the Commission. He was really 01:40:24
instrumental in structuring the Commission so that. 01:40:29
He was instrumental in updating the general plan. As most of you know, I, you know, he started the the Heritage Commission or was 01:41:06
a very instrumental piece of that. I, I look back and I. 01:41:13
You know, a lot of the conversation that we've had about our heritage and about our roots and informing our future discussion and 01:41:21
trying to craft what is our vision for the city, like what, what do we want to become? Tim has been so instrumental in helping us 01:41:28
understand like where we came from as the city. And I I just think there's, there's been so much value added because of that and 01:41:34
it's helped shape where where we're going. And you're such a big part of that. So thank you. 01:41:41
He assisted with the 1st Trail and Parks Plan. I, I, I remember that was like one of those first big projects that we undertook as 01:41:50
a, as a Planning Commission. 01:41:54
And also kind of same thing, making sure that we try to incorporate heritage or or speak back to, to to our roots as we look at 01:41:59
parks and trails. 01:42:03
He, you know, we have Commission, he did the downtown ordinance. He was a part of the kind of the, or the accessory dwelling unit 01:42:09
ordinance, the signage code that that would that's always been such an important thing. That seems like it's always coming back to 01:42:16
you. The waterfront master plan, the train station and heritage panels and those are so cool. And I was able to to bring my family 01:42:22
down there and, and show those and Tim is a really important part of helping us find photos. 01:42:29
This helping us kind of understand the context to those photos and helping to display that to the public because they think of the 01:42:36
train station is also a gateway in into our city. And so that those are the first things that many people see to him. And so thank 01:42:43
you for helping us make it just a memorable experience for people that visit the city via the train. 01:42:50
And the Vineyard summer celebration or the Vineyard Heritage days. And you know, I don't know where that would even be. Without 01:42:59
doubt himself. So anyway, just. 01:43:04
A round of applause, I guess, for Tim. 01:43:11
We love you and you know, you're a friend and you know, hopefully we can continue to, to, to work with you. I think we will. 01:43:17
You'll stay on the Heritage Commission. But you know, thank you for all, all your contributions. Appreciate it. Thank you. 01:43:23
Thank you any others from planning staff. 01:43:29
Cool, I did have a couple of follow up questions from previous meetings. Were able to find out anything with the Postal Service. 01:43:35
Yes and no. So I actually, I went and met with the Postmaster General. I think that's their title. And just mentioned, you know, 01:43:43
just a reminder, we're down here in Vineyard and we don't have any kind of Dropbox. And he's actually kind of surprised he didn't 01:43:47
know that. 01:43:51
He said it does, he has to go through approval way beyond him in order to do that. So I gave him my contact information. This is 01:43:57
probably maybe a week and a half ago. I think I went the following week after we had that discussion and I haven't heard back from 01:44:04
them yet. I'll, I'll probably go maybe after the holiday season when things have slowed down for them and kind of remind them and 01:44:11
see where that and that process to see if you know any progress is made on those approvals. So, but it definitely wasn't a no. 01:44:19
Him OK. 01:44:26
What area do they cover? So this is the Postmaster General from the Warm Center St. building? Yeah. 01:44:30
I think they're the the post office that that service is our city. 01:44:38
And then the other question I had, maybe something we can do in January is as far as. 01:44:43
Making some kind of code for parking for new developments. 01:44:50
And having them enforce their parking, is that something we can do? 01:44:55
Because we have these agreements with developers, they come in and they're like, oh, we're going to manage it. We've got this 01:45:01
great plan for management and then they change management and it just all goes crazy. And then the city's to blame and we're 01:45:07
awful. Is there something we can do to like get it in code? Like if like a parking plan needs to be approved with a developer 01:45:13
agreement or something? 01:45:20
And then they need to hold to that. I, I definitely put in the code. The code is going to be your strongest place for that in 01:45:26
places like the mixed-use development with X development. It's something that we've discussed quite a bit. So they're anticipating 01:45:32
doing it. And that's an easier thing because it's like 1 contained like site, basically one really large building. But yeah, I, I 01:45:39
totally get it. And I mean, let's just be honest, the lakefront, a Town Center. 01:45:45
We had a lot of promises and what's frustrating is. 01:45:52
Base standards for parking management. 01:46:25
OK. So yeah, if we could do some kind of work session on that, I think it would be valuable. Well, and if you manage parking too, 01:46:27
that's gonna manage your occupancy. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah. And I mean the biggest concern, even if the biggest concern with 01:46:35
multi family dwellings or like high density isn't so much the people as much as it is the traffic. And so if that's mitigated by 01:46:42
parking, by limiting parking in certain ways, then even if there are multiple people living in an. 01:46:50
Like, that's fine. It's the cars and the traffic that people are concerned about and don't like. So OK, cool. Any other? 01:46:58
If not, then meeting is adjourned. 01:47:07
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
Unable to preview the file.
Yeah. I think last year was like TV dinners or something. TV dinners, yeah. 00:00:00
Some the same the same brought some memories. 00:00:06
Like military? 00:00:11
Yeah. 00:00:25
I think they're getting that. 00:00:26
OK, Welcome everybody. It is December 7th, 2022. It is 6:03 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We'll have an 00:00:40
invocation by Tim Blackburn. 00:00:46
Thank you. 00:00:53
I'll wait till. 00:00:56
Give them a second, they finish, they're plugging in. 00:00:58
Brian, you can take your time. We're just waiting for you. 00:01:04
Our beloved Father in heaven this evening as we convene this Planning Commission meeting, we're grateful for this opportunity that 00:01:11
we have to be here. We're thankful for the moisture that we received over the last weeks. We're grateful Father in Heaven to live 00:01:17
in this community. And we're thankful for those who live here and for those who helped to make it strong and vibrant. We're 00:01:23
grateful for those who administered through the city. 00:01:29
We pray Father in Heaven, for the time that we're together tonight, that we'll be inspired, uplifted and directed and make those 00:01:36
decisions that will truly benefit this community and the people who live here and that will visit here. We pray that we can help 00:01:42
to plan for the future growth and development in ways that will bring safety and vitality and excitement to this community. We 00:01:49
pray for our families as we live here and work here as well. 00:01:55
And we're grateful to live in a free nation where we can exercise the freedoms that we've been given. And we pray for these things 00:02:02
and thank you for them. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. 00:02:07
Thank you, Tim. Thank you. 00:02:13
All right, we'll move into an open session. This is the time for Publix to make any comments. If you want to come up to the 00:02:15
podium, state your name. 00:02:19
There aren't any comments. OK. We'll move right into the minutes for review and approval. Do I have a motion on that? 00:02:24
Since I didn't attend two of the meetings, I probably have to let somebody else. 00:02:34
Motion to approve them. 00:02:39
Yeah, I looked over. They look good to me. I also was not here for 3.23 point 3, but 3.1 I'm definitely good. I'll make a motion 00:02:44
to approve them. Do I have a second? And I will second it all in favor. 00:02:50
Right moving into business Item 4.1 E Lake at Geneva Industrial Park. 00:02:57
To you without crutches. 00:03:10
Good. 00:03:12
Thank you. 00:03:41
OK. So my name is Brian Amaya, the planner two in the Community Development department. 00:03:51
And I actually don't see our applicant here today. 00:03:57
But I will still present his project their project. 00:04:01
OK. So this is application for a site plan amendment and the the client is a Vineyard Properties of Utah LLC. This is Martin 00:04:18
Snow's company. He owns a lot of property in the East Lake Geneva Industrial Park. 00:04:26
And this is looking at 7050 N Pioneer Lane and it's a 56 approximately 56,000 square feet of building extension. 00:04:36
The property is in the M district and. 00:04:46
His proposed land uses are consistent with the zoning. For the most part. What they want to do here is light manufacturing, 00:04:50
warehousing and offices. 00:04:54
The new tenant they're going to be, they're called Universal Industrial Sales. They're going to manufacture freeway safety 00:04:59
products such as guard rails, bridge rails, sign structures, et cetera. And they anticipate bringing about 50 new jobs to Vineyard 00:05:04
City. 00:05:09
Um. 00:05:16
So I've been working pretty closely with the gentleman named Chris Kept Part, who represents Martin Snow. He's been working with 00:05:20
me and with other city staff to be able to provide the minimum required open space to provide improved dust proof parking 00:05:26
surfaces, including 88 stalls and bicycle parking stalls. Safe and convenient circulation patterns for vehicles and pedestrians. 00:05:33
Features for public gathering. 00:05:39
Natural water wise landscaping. That's consistent with the new codes coming down from the state. 00:05:46
And adequate exterior lighting. 00:05:52
The major point of discussion that I think the Planning Commission is considered today revolves around the visual impact of the 00:05:55
buildings aesthetics and the human slash pedestrian scale design that that it provides or does not provide. That's kind of up to 00:06:04
you guys to determine. The building was ordered by the applicant about more than six months ago. 00:06:13
And it's primarily made of metal, a prefabricated metal. The original plans that they presented to us showed minimal variations in 00:06:22
architectural design, color, materiality, relief and massing. But since that original submittal, the applicant has been working 00:06:30
with city staff to do as much as they can to the buildings exterior to provide. 00:06:38
Variations in the roofline, Some recessed wall planes, Decorative beans. 00:06:47
Using and transparent see some windows and so in in a nutshell, really it's up to the Planning Commission to determine if the 00:06:54
building's extension as presented today as you've had the opportunity to review the plans sufficiently needs our building design 00:07:01
requirements and if it's appropriate for the intended land uses and if it's consistent with the surrounding development. 00:07:07
If you guys choose to approve the submittal as presented today, I've attached 12 conditions of approval that you guys can. 00:07:16
Talk about and discuss. 00:07:25
I'm happy to show you more. Parts of the plans have elations. I have landscape plans, so whatever you'd like to see, happy to show 00:07:27
it to you. 00:07:31
So I don't think I was here six months ago when this first went through. So this is yeah. So they ordered the building 6 months 00:07:37
ago. So they didn't take it to the Planning Commission. This is the first time that we're seeing this application, but it's a 00:07:43
prefabricated metal building that they had ordered several months ago. And this isn't like a subdivision or something like that. 00:07:49
So no, no, no. So if you look right here at the screen. 00:07:55
Whoops. 00:08:01
Brian, do you have site photos or something like that? You should, Yeah, I'll just, I'll bring that up. Yeah, that's a good idea. 00:08:04
Does corrugated metal meet the. 00:08:08
So there is a code section that says that metal is prohibited. 00:08:15
Yeah. 00:08:20
Did they not know? 00:08:24
I mean, in the kindest words that I can use, I think in a way they might have gotten ahead of themselves and they went ahead and 00:08:28
ordered a building that is struggling to meet the code standards. And so they're now trying to do the best that they can to try to 00:08:35
make revisions, to try to add some articulation, some variation in design. But because it's prefabricated and it's a 56,000 square 00:08:41
foot building, there's, it's been difficult for them. I'd just like to point out though. 00:08:48
Kind of understanding it is an addition to do an existing building. And so they were trying to, so we sort of had like 2 code 00:08:56
sections that conflict. One of them is having similar materials as you as you make additions or extensions to buildings as they 00:09:05
make the current architecture. And so they were trying to also do that but the material that was being proposed. 00:09:13
Is a material that's that that that's not one that's. 00:09:22
I guess allowed or is it? Is it straight up prohibited under the code? We can look at the code section, but it's pretty doesn't 00:09:28
need a lot of room for leeway unfortunately. But I can show it to the Planning Commission and they can. 00:09:34
The existing building there, they're metal. Yeah. That it's it's it's consistent in terms of color, pretty much consistent in 00:09:41
design. And to be non compliant is what it sounds like it should be a it's like Grandfather Day. And I'm assuming it was compliant 00:09:48
at the time. So it's yes, yeah. And it would look weird to provide a building extension that's completely different than the 00:09:54
original building that's already on the site. And to be 100% fair. 00:10:01
There's similar buildings in that immediate vicinity. 00:10:08
So. 00:10:12
But they were all built before. 00:10:16
They were built before. 00:10:19
Sorry, say that one more time before this code was in place is when those other buildings, perhaps, I don't know exactly what, 00:10:21
there's a good likelihood that maybe it was. 00:10:26
Well, it would seem like yeah, because our, our zoning audience was I think 2006 when and initially came in this this building. I 00:10:33
I believe I predate that. So. So the, the ordinance with which the original building was built allowed that type of building. Or 00:10:40
were there exceptions made or what it was it was a lot of lack of code. So we had Billy code, yes. Everyone saw how to meet Billy 00:10:47
code regards to the zoning ordinance the city adopted a. 00:10:54
Out following basically after the construction of that building OK, so so we're performing a variance kind of decision here 00:11:02
tonight to allow them to do something where there is a path to approve it without it being a variance to what's in code. I don't 00:11:09
think a literal variance, but like somewhat of a variance because they're building design we're actually working on that. We're 00:11:17
trying to tighten up and further define our building design standards and be more specific as to like how much. 00:11:24
Articulation do we do we want how many wall, you know, recessed wall plans at what distances on the building do we want these, you 00:11:32
know, articulations and things like that? So we're it's kind of there's there's a lot of it is up to your discretion at this 00:11:38
point, I would say. What would you say, Morgan? 00:11:45
Yeah. I mean, I, I think you got to take in the context the the industrial district, the nature of the industrial district. 00:11:53
You know, I would look at things if. 00:12:01
You know, if you want to see more material added to it, I mean, the applicant isn't here. You could always continue it and and and 00:12:04
provide some direction to the applicant. 00:12:09
But, but overall, I mean, it's, it's mature, it's essentially making a connection to an existing building utilizing the similar 00:12:16
materials. I did want to show them the original submittal and and how it's kind of changed a little since. 00:12:23
So the original submittal was pretty much just a block. 00:12:32
So they, they have done, they've, they've gone a little bit, you know, and. 00:12:38
I do want to give them a little credit for that. 00:12:42
Like the roof? Yeah, like the roof line. They've they brought the front portion out. They've got some beans, they've got some 00:12:46
windows, a few doors. 00:12:50
So it is definitely visually more interesting, but you know, whether or not it meets the standard that we're trying to move 00:12:55
forward with as a city in terms of human skill, design, pedestrian interest, things like that, That's that's the question. So 00:13:02
personally, I'd like to talk with the applicant and probably continue it personally. But also, I mean, looking at their existing 00:13:09
building, I mean, it looks better than their existing building, which isn't saying anything really. 00:13:16
But they also have no landscaping for their existing building. 00:13:24
So maybe having some kind of condition where they landscape what they already have plus this. 00:13:28
Some kind of exception just because it's matching what's already there, but like looking on the map like there's no landscaping 00:13:36
and not the existing building. 00:13:41
Right, they've added a little bit of landscaping along the right of way. So they've added this 20 foot buffer of landscaping. 00:13:47
They've added they, they currently meet the 5% of this buildable site area. They've added this their escaped 6000 square foot, 00:13:54
their escape area in the back that also has like a patio area. So it kind of serves as a nice spot for maybe some public 00:14:02
gathering. They've added a 5 foot foundation planter along the front of the building that does provide some aesthetic. 00:14:09
To the front, but. 00:14:17
In essence, you're right, there's not like lands, like a lot of thorough landscaping on the entirety of the site, but they but 00:14:20
they meet the 5%. Is this considered an addition or a new build? This is considered an addition, an extension. So it's a site, a 00:14:26
minor site plan amendment. So do you know the existing size of the building that the current building? Oh, the current, I can 00:14:33
measure it out right now, but it's smaller. I think it's 40 something, but. 00:14:39
No, not. It would almost double the size of the entire. 00:14:47
Thing Yeah, yeah, they're taking out a big portion of the building right now and So what you're seeing it is an addition that 00:14:51
footprint contains some of the existing building that that would go away the Google Earth or Street View. Brian, if you want to 00:14:57
show the existing condition that actually might be a better. 00:15:03
Yeah, you can pull that up. 00:15:10
Buildings it's like. 00:15:13
This is the same property owner that's owned it for quite a while, Or this is a newer owner, the same owner. 00:15:15
I'm just bringing up the, so while you're pulling that up, I think one thing we've identified if there's something that says they 00:15:23
need to continue the same look and feel of what they already have, but if what they already have is not up to current standard, we 00:15:30
need to resolve that. I believe, you know, maybe maybe it's just adding a line in there that says, you know, it can match what was 00:15:37
approved at the time or we say very clearly it can't. So there's people just know what to build for. 00:15:45
Yeah, yeah. That, that, that that's my key thing here, because I know you said there's some leeway, but most everything that the 00:15:53
Planning Commission can and should take on is fairly black and white. And when it's not black and white, we should find ways to 00:15:59
make it more that way. So someone doesn't come and wonder, is this going to be approved or not? It should be very clear. If I 00:16:05
submit this, it will get approved, or if I submit this, it will get rejected, honestly. 00:16:11
Yeah, I mean, you may want to consider having the applicant go through a text amendment. 00:16:19
I think it's because of saying no Milton metal material. Yeah. I don't. I don't see a way that we can approve metal. Yeah. You 00:16:26
don't want to pull that language if this has no, no. And then if if the next applicant comes in and says, well, I'm doing 00:16:32
something else that's directly opposed to what the code says. But you proved the last guy. You know, I'm not comfortable approving 00:16:38
things that can you show prohibited. Yeah, I know where I know where it's at. 00:16:44
And while you're looking that up, I guess that would be my position to Anthony that. 00:16:52
You know, initially I was saying absolutely not. 00:17:06
But I didn't know that the first building was built. 00:17:09
Under a different premise than what we currently have now is code. 00:17:13
And so then I was leading toward, well, let's make it so that it's consistent looking. We don't want to have two different looking 00:17:18
buildings there. But but I do think whatever it is, we decide needs to be crystal clear so that we can go back in future request 00:17:25
to say this exception was made because of this or it wasn't made because of that. So I, it looks like it's, it's gone out factory 00:17:33
finished metals. So I, I'm assuming that's something with a high gloss that. 00:17:40
Reflective and that's probably the, the reason is the code probably doesn't want the neighbor to have reflections coming out right 00:17:48
into their further windows. And so maybe we have we, we look at the cut sheet a little bit closer because it doesn't seem like 00:17:53
it's saying you can't be available, but it's saying basically the factory finished metal. And so we need to find out there. I'm 00:17:59
sure there's a industry definition that we can pull from that, but the rest of that is talking also about like the reflective 00:18:05
nature. 00:18:10
You know, high grass pants and like those kind of things that I think. 00:18:18
Technically Utah. Utah is a very pro developer state so you get some good and bad from that. 00:18:54
Good, because it's put the priority on property rights that in a sense that like when whenever from a City side, when you're 00:18:58
reviewing something, if there is a conflict, typically the the property owner gets the benefit of that conflict. And so so we we 00:19:06
do so that's kind of when we looked at that, it was you know, like I know that that that's even not extremely. 00:19:14
Specific, but they they do have an existing predominant material. 00:19:23
And they're proposing extent. So I think what we should do is look more at the material that they, that they have like a good 00:19:29
touchy look at the definition for the factory finished metal and, and, and it might be something where they could paint it or, or, 00:19:35
or, or coat it or, or something else. If, if the current material doesn't mean whatever that industry standard is, how much would 00:19:41
you say probably don't have cost, but you know, in the design improvements they've done already that are above and beyond, it's 00:19:47
already there. 00:19:53
I'm assuming they there's a cost that they yeah, I wouldn't know that number. I can, I can ask him and get back to you guys, but I 00:19:59
don't know exactly. 00:20:04
I know we're it doesn't sound like we're gonna vote on us tonight. I'm inclined based off of that and almost grandfathering in of 00:20:09
it's an existing building with the same owner that you know, kind of has retained the right. So if you would approve it based off 00:20:14
of that, I wouldn't put any new requirements on them. There's no additional health and safety concerns here. They need frontage 00:20:18
requirements. 00:20:22
It's, you know, a right that they've had since. Would you like to look at the conditions of approval that I've laid out? So I 00:20:29
think overall they they would improve the. 00:20:35
The project. 00:20:42
Let me. 00:20:46
And currently is there an occupant in the building that is manufacturing? 00:20:50
They're getting a new. 00:20:56
And the name that you read earlier of the business university to occupy the entire building, not just the extension. 00:21:00
I don't know that, I don't know that I think, I think they are. I think that's like, I think that's yeah, they do like the the 00:21:09
polls for freeway signs. Yeah. So it sounds like it's going to be primarily metal construction manufacturing. You talked about 00:21:16
guardrails, bridge rails, all metal signs. Are there any concerns at all on the cities part about that which they will be 00:21:23
manufacturing and how it will be housed and processed and so on? This falls under our highest. 00:21:29
Impact Commercial district The manufacturing district. 00:21:37
And to the manufacturing zone. And so because of that, there is an there is an expectation that there's going to be some noise, 00:21:40
vibration, that kind of stuff that comes from manufacturing. So if there was like residential nearby and they're coming in for a 00:21:45
rezone for this and then, you know, we probably would have some concerns. But in this case, that's that and it's set up for it. 00:21:50
OK, Yeah. 00:21:55
So I have let me bring up the. 00:22:02
Conditions. 00:22:05
So here, here are the conditions that I thought would add a little more to this building. Conceal all mechanical equipment. The 00:22:08
1st 2 are kind of the standard conditions approval that we test everything. 00:22:13
The application label all the non vegetative decorative ground cover, which they did not do in the landscape plan, but they 00:22:20
labeled all of their other tree species, their shrubs, everything else. 00:22:25
8 stalls and the requirement right now as it stands as this. 5 The Upton Shelley Ball Black, a backflow prevention device for 00:23:01
irrigation lines for landscaping that will be independently owned and maintained by Vernon City Definition. Ensure adequate soil 00:23:07
preparation which will be suitable to provide healthy growing conditions for the plants and to encourage water infiltration and 00:23:13
penetration. Water Manager shall inspect for compliance of this item during a final inspection. 00:23:19
And this last one, they've actually already met. So this has to do with the 20 foot landscaping bucket when I wrote this staff 00:23:26
report. 00:23:30
Just before on Friday, on Thursday started on Thursday, they hadn't met that landscaping yet, so they had sent me an amended site 00:23:35
plan for that. 00:23:40
So and everything but the architectural design of the building, they're, they're pretty much squared off. 00:23:47
Is landscaping and all these extras actually part of what's needed for an addition though? I can see for new build, but for an 00:23:56
addition you would have to do that as well. Yeah. I mean, the requirement is that the area that's being developed come into 00:24:02
compliance. And so because of this, their driveway is further to the east of where their additions going. And so, so I mean, it 00:24:08
allows us some leeway to kind of go, OK, you don't have to do the entire site, but you need to be at least the percentages that 00:24:13
would be. 00:24:19
From that portion, so some of that got applied to where the driveways coming in and different areas of the site. But you know, 00:24:26
overall we we think like they didn't met the kind of the spirit of, of that of the landscaping requirements. But yeah, we're, 00:24:32
we're not making them do the entire site. The entire site is like 37 acres. 00:24:38
When? 00:24:45
This road, is this road going to be continuing 1750 N will that continue to the West? 00:24:47
It is, I don't know if I want to speak more to that, but the idea is that that would loop with 1600 N and so 1750 I don't believe 00:24:53
goes further than where it, it goes to the West of the loops, loops the South. So where they're going to, are they going to be 00:25:00
required to finish the landscaping along that edge of their property? 00:25:07
They have to do the landscaping that is adjacent to, to the addition that, that, that that's what's required. But I think in this 00:25:17
they're proposing to do it. Yeah. So I think they're proposing to do even more than what's the minimum requirement. 00:25:25
It looks like it ends at Pioneer Lane. 00:25:34
And if that's looping around. 00:25:37
Then it looks like the landscaping is just gonna end. And who's gonna? 00:25:41
Yeah, I think the landscaping just ends, but it goes down the street east on 1750 N quite a ways. 00:25:47
Yeah, it it goes for their existing building apparently, right? This is kind of an overview of how much landscaping they're doing. 00:25:55
Sorry, Bryce, I didn't mean to cut you off. 00:26:05
There's there's an even better one that if you go up it'll show the whole site. 00:26:09
I don't think I have this one. What you're what you're saying might be on the agenda. 00:26:14
I'll go, I'll go on the agenda. 00:26:20
So he said page 50. 00:26:22
Yes, page 50. 00:26:26
Is this page 50? 00:26:33
So if you just go. 00:26:36
Right up top there and you see Pioneer Lane. 00:26:38
If 1750s continuing to the West. 00:26:42
I would think that that landscaping should continue to the West. 00:26:47
And I don't know if 1750 will loop around back to 1600 on on their property. I can't imagine that it does with the tracks there. 00:26:51
But. 00:27:01
It says we've approved these other plans and like looking down the road at other plans, we've approved just the landscaping, not 00:27:06
even looking at the buildings, which the buildings of the most recent plans we've approved look really good, but their landscaping 00:27:12
looks really good and it would just be a bummer to be like landscaping looks good, buildings look good and now the buildings look 00:27:17
really bad and there is no landscaping. 00:27:23
Right. 00:27:29
I think that's a reasonable condition is to add a condition that when 1750 is extended that the landscaping be installed. We 00:27:31
probably would need a bond for it, but it's hard to know. I mean that's something to see where Emily can talk to you. Do you guys 00:27:38
know when 60 or 1750 is planned to be extended? 00:27:45
There's there's no, there's no planet there. It's on the it's on the long range plan for them to do that, but there's not an 00:27:58
immediate plan. It sounds like it's not their requirement to improve the part in front of their property. That's second separate 00:28:06
owners of that land where we typically. But with this they have to provide access to the to their property. And so like even if. 00:28:15
Road was just a dead ended Rd. that they they wouldn't be required to do more than than what what they're proposing. But if the 00:28:23
road extends. 00:28:27
You know, I mean, we could try to get them to put landscaping in before, but I, you know, it's hard because then when the register 00:28:32
does that tear up the landscaping and then are they having to replace it? 00:28:37
But if you if this is being continued, I mean that's a conversation we could have with with Chris. If you're, if you're wanting us 00:28:44
to dig further into that, we're happy to do so. Trying to remember morning if we had a similar condition of rule for lot 5 off of 00:28:50
1600 N because it's not that little dead end thing. I can look through see if we have something like that because that one's also 00:28:55
supposed to be that road supposed to be extended in front of their property line. Yeah, we did have assembles on another 00:29:00
conversation on that. 00:29:06
Thing that we approved was not 5 the concrete. 00:29:12
No, that was the triangle 1600 N that you're talking about, Brian, at the end of 1600 N. 00:29:17
Yeah, it's kind of a. 00:29:25
It's this one. 00:29:28
Enigma. 00:29:30
I think that that one actually shows it, yeah. So they. 00:29:33
They took the landscape right in front of the building. 00:29:36
Yeah, they might have just gone ahead and did it anyways. 00:29:39
OK. 00:29:42
But I'll look through, I can look through our previous staff reports and see what conditions are attached to this one. So after 00:29:43
you showed that language, I definitely see how in the developer side you know they're following what was already existing there. 00:29:49
Even if it doesn't necessarily meet the standalone requirements now, I'd still feel more comfortable if we updated the text to be 00:29:55
clear on because those seem to be conflicting. 00:30:01
Continuing what's already there versus what are the actual standards? 00:30:08
And so maybe mention even just add a line there saying that they are OK to proceed with things that are non conforming as long as 00:30:12
it matches what's existing there or that they're not. I think it's good to clarify there in this situation where it currently 00:30:18
stands, I think I'd agree where we probably need to find a path forward to yes for them since you could definitely interpret that 00:30:24
as keep building what's already been built. And you're not saying a text amendment that they submit this would be I think we I 00:30:30
think we need to clean that up. 00:30:36
There's great area that we come across that's great area for the developers too. That doesn't do anyone favors to have. We're 00:30:42
actually doing that now. So Rachel's setting up a rewrite of the site and building standards and so that's something that we can 00:30:48
incorporate in that code. So she's going to look at like additions to existing buildings of what are standards. How much could 00:30:54
this this site brought up a lot of questions, especially because it's not like just a straight, you know, rectangle fronting right 00:31:00
of way. It's kind of a dead end that. 00:31:06
But then you're pulling your driveway across the front end that's already built, you know, So what, what should standards be for, 00:31:12
for, for like an addition and some of those unique situations, right, that I feel like. 00:31:20
If there's a way to. 00:31:28
Still encourage it to be in the other part of the code. 00:31:32
Achieving a sense of human skill and create visual interest at eye level that's important to our city moving forward and well, it 00:31:38
I feel like there could be a good. 00:31:45
Coming together of. 00:31:54
Continuing, it was always. 00:31:57
There before. 00:32:00
But then making it also better. 00:32:02
Yeah, because I, I mean. 00:32:05
I feel like there is. 00:32:10
A wording for that we can create. 00:32:12
In a text amendment yeah, no, I that's a really good idea and so you know maybe you're able to 'cause there are things that you 00:32:15
can do that could still make a compatible design with an edition. And and you often see that where maybe these some of the 00:32:21
materials but materials are upgraded. Maybe there's more windows like on the entrance Brian work with them on the entrance to 00:32:27
provide more of a substantial entrance with the design feature over it we have them put in some windows and so I think I think 00:32:33
we're going on the same page like write it so. 00:32:39
Use this same predominant material, but that it's heightened and so it's still compatible, but you have a nicer addition. 00:32:45
But are we are we saying that we need to put forth a text amendment and then have them go through that because I don't know what 00:32:54
what we're saying. We would do that through the tax amount of that we're or that Rachel was drafting. OK, that's a good for right 00:33:01
now. Do they have are they vested with the current codes that the city has? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how it works. So whatever 00:33:09
code is is adopted when you apply. 00:33:16
Your application is dusted under the standards. That's right. So just in this case it's a, it's a little confusing, but there's, 00:33:24
there's enough in there that I, we think it's, it's still approvable. 00:33:30
You know, if you wanted to see more added to to the the building, we could we could you know, work with the applicant from here 00:33:37
until now or you could approve it with conditions or you could prove it as is seems like the landscaping maybe the frontage if if 00:33:44
you wanted to see the the landscaping extend across that the entire frontage at least for the addition. 00:33:52
That's something you could, you could put as a condition or you could continue and we we could discuss it with applicant. However 00:34:00
the Commission would like to proceed. We're we're happy to to move forward with it either way. 00:34:07
The visuals. 00:34:17
That part of that very specific part of the code that they are not compliant with. 00:34:19
One more quick question, isn't this also right where the? 00:34:24
Trail goes by. 00:34:30
Or the proposed trail. 00:34:32
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, the Linden Heritage Trail goes right here. 00:34:34
And then wraps around these two buildings. 00:34:39
Time. 00:34:42
Yeah, it will seem can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it does go down in this direction through this area I think. 00:34:44
And then connects to the lakefront. 00:34:54
Yeah. 00:35:01
Yeah, it'll be visible, but they that being said, they do have a slanted fence in front of the whole building. So you won't be 00:35:06
able to see a lot of it. Most of the the people who will see it will people that are there either to work or that are visiting for 00:35:11
whatever reason. I must say it's not even really the building, more the landscaping around the building. OK, So you're more 00:35:17
concerned about the landscaping, OK. 00:35:23
So exactly what? What changes with the Planning Commission like to see on this? 00:35:31
Landscaping that goes across the I mean, either that or a bond or something that ensures that the landscaping will eventually be 00:35:36
there when it might be easier. I mean they might not love this, but having them just extend it now and and and build, build it as 00:35:45
one and then when they extend the street just tell them to be careful. I mean they may have to replace the landscape here, but. 00:35:53
That that might be better than having a bond, especially since we don't know when the when it's next day, it could be 10 years and 00:36:03
then who staff members aren't aren't even going to remember. 00:36:07
OK, Yeah, I, I. 00:36:11
That's how I would learn, and I'd be interested to kind of hear their take on that. Yeah. I wish they were here. Yeah. Yeah. You'd 00:36:15
think with something like this that they'd be here. 00:36:21
Urban emotions or does anybody want to continue it or? 00:36:29
I think my thinking would be to make a motion to continue this until a future meeting. I think it was proposed in January. Is that 00:36:34
right? If there's not another meeting in December, so whatever the next meeting is. 00:36:40
To continue it to that time and in the meantime have the the city get back with the. 00:36:46
The owner about our concerns about landscaping and so on, especially and the conditions proposed, yeah. 00:36:55
OK. And then I think Tay, you had something on the material of the bill. Are you wanting to see just more done with the with the 00:37:03
elevation? Yeah, I'd like to see if we're done with that so that it is visually appealing. 00:37:08
You can still utilize the same material, but maybe add some more. 00:37:16
You know, some more relief variations in Mossad or something material. There's a lot of do they can have color materials. 00:37:20
Yeah, they could do it. No, they're not. They don't talk about that. They could. They could do a little more, Yeah, I think. But 00:37:27
yeah, I mean. 00:37:33
Mate, give it a little human element. 00:37:40
Yeah, great. Do you have a second on Tim's motion? I'll second. 00:37:42
All in favor, aye? 00:37:49
And moving at 4.2. Conditional use permit for building O of the yard. 00:37:52
OK. 00:37:57
OK, let me put that up on the screen. 00:38:03
I. 00:38:12
Between the screens. OK, there we go. 00:38:22
I thought it was going to take John Cena. 00:38:27
Can you do that into the mic next time please? 00:38:41
OK, this next application. 00:38:47
Is being submitted by Carla Mata with X Development, our good friends from X Development and. 00:38:50
This is for a minor side plan amendment as well for the Yard A. 00:39:00
The original yard A site plan was approved by the Planning Commission on March the 20th, 2019. It was recently amended on November 00:39:06
the 2nd, 2002. And this amendment officially removed the drive through that used to wrap around Building P. So you guys are it's 00:39:13
fresh in your memories. So the primary purpose of tonight's proposal is to amend the site plan and to add the drive through to 00:39:21
Building O. 00:39:28
This drive thru does require a conditional use permit because it is located between the front facade of the building and the front 00:39:37
property line. The drive through does meet our standard requirements for aisle with stacking, landscaping, ingress and egress 00:39:44
etcetera. And all of the original elevations that were approved back in March 20th, 2019 remain unchanged. So essentially we're 00:39:51
just. 00:39:58
Approving this drive through. 00:40:05
So the applicant is here to answer any questions and I'll let them come forth to speak to you. 00:40:08
If you have a question. 00:40:16
My only question is. 00:40:20
Any learnings from the other just to the South of it that's basically the same setup with the with the drive throughs that same 00:40:23
way. Any any issues or anything like that that you've learned from or seen or that you would change? Just want to make sure we're 00:40:28
not pushing anything forward this you can see any issues. 00:40:33
When you said the One South of it, you're talking about this, the soda one and the Little Caesars one. Yeah, it's almost, almost 00:40:43
identical, right? With the same setup, Yeah. 00:40:48
Here's some conditions of rule that we discussed with them. The applicant shall screen the drive through aisle from view of the of 00:40:55
the street for Buildings N&O&P using a landscape berm, decorative wall, vertical landscaping, combination thereof at least three 00:41:02
feet high as measured from the top of the back of the curve adjacent to the drive aisle to be screened. The applicant shall 00:41:09
provide a building entrance on the building side facing the front yard. I believe they've done that now. 00:41:16
With their amended documents. 00:41:24
And they have been doing this but this will will receive these amendments for all these buildings as as they continue to build the 00:41:27
buildings. The applicant shall show on the site plan on the master site plan all exterior building entrances on all sides of 00:41:36
buildings JGKLMNONP before the applicant can submit for a building permit and the applicant pays and then these are two standard. 00:41:46
Conditions of approval. 00:41:58
Any other questions or do I have a motion? 00:42:03
Just a question about #3 is it, can you just give us some more background about that? Yeah. So there's some buildings that show 00:42:06
the doors, all the doors on the master site plan, all the doors of the buildings and some that don't. And so I'd like to see 00:42:10
those. 00:42:15
So. 00:42:23
We just want consistency in design, that way whoever is interpreting the site plan. 00:42:24
Knows what, Sir? 00:42:30
I don't have any other questions. All right. I'm going to make a motion, right. I move to approve the site plan as presented with 00:42:35
the proposed conditions from staff. Sorry, a second, second. 00:42:39
All right. All in favor, aye. All right. Thank you guys. 00:42:44
4.3 Public hearing zoning text amendment. 00:42:50
Should I open this up for a public hearing right now? 00:43:01
Yeah. And open this up for public, I do some move second, second. 00:43:04
All right. All in favor, aye. 00:43:09
All right, So this is a city initiated zoning text amendment. Hopefully it'll pull up here in a second. 00:43:15
And and basically what we're trying to do is just tidy up our code to match the state code and do a few small changes that I'll 00:43:23
show you. Let me drag this over. 00:43:27
I don't like this extended display. There we go. 00:43:34
So this is where we're mostly talking about talking about public noticing and, and what we've noticed is that the state doesn't 00:43:38
require us to post in newspapers public notices, but our code does. And so we're trying to remove that from the code. It's just 00:43:45
something that can cause a delay in the in the development process because the only newspaper that we can go to is the Salt Lake 00:43:52
Tribune and we have to reach out to them like I think Wednesday a week before the Planning Commission meeting. 00:44:00
Or before the public notice is required and just add some time and delay. And there's been a few public notices that we've sent 00:44:08
out and they never responded to us and then it was too late and we missed that deadline. 00:44:13
And so we're just trying to clean up that up out of our code so we don't have to deal with it anymore. Like I said, it's it's not 00:44:20
required by state law anymore. And then there's a few other things. 00:44:25
Maybe before you go on, sure, let me just ask a question because as I was reading through that, I thought. 00:44:32
Value does public notice in newspapers add if any, do we get more public comment because it's in the newspaper? Because I, I'd 00:44:38
like to go back and say, are we simply trying to meet law during minimum level of law or do we really want to get public input? I 00:44:45
mean this, this notice was put in the newspaper and there's not a lot of people here for it. You know, I, I don't think that there 00:44:53
has been a lot of people that go. 00:45:00
Typically to the Salt Lake Tribune to see the public notices for what's going on in Vineyard. What we do currently, I can give 00:45:08
that background. When you do a public notice is we do post it on our website. We post it on the Utah public notice website. We 00:45:15
post it here in this building or wherever the meeting is taking place. And then we also mail it to affected entities. So if 00:45:21
somebody want to do like a conditional use in your neighbor, we'd mail you. 00:45:28
A physical copy of the notice saying your neighbor is trying to. 00:45:35
Apply for this conditional use permit. We're having meetings on these dates. You can come to the meetings. So I, I don't think 00:45:39
that there's any, you know, cons of removing. I really don't think a lot of people are, are relying solely on the Salt Lake 00:45:44
Tribune to see what's going on with the city. 00:45:50
And why is it the Tribune that were obligated to just have to be a major newspaper? Yeah, major local newspaper. And we, we had 00:45:56
some issue with the Daily Herald. And so we stopped posting for, with them and went just to the Salt Lake Tribune. But like I 00:46:04
said, we've just had some issues with them. And once again, it's just I, I don't know if it's necessary. 00:46:11
Yeah, Yeah, it is. It is expensive as well. They do charger spaced off of the line that it takes up in the newspaper. 00:46:21
So the average. 00:46:28
Notice would run anywhere from 60 to $100.00 with the Salt Lake Tribune. So we have no data that says we get X number of more P 00:46:30
correct for advertising students. And this is something else we can try to do is work with our social media team to see if they 00:46:36
could start posting it more frequently on our social media. Because I think that's probably where you're going to get the most 00:46:42
visibility on any kind of public notices is through social media. Notify people that they can subscribe to, Right? Yeah. That 00:46:48
that's one of the best, yeah. 00:46:54
Yeah, whenever we do post a public notice on our website, if you are signed up for alerts, you will get an e-mail and a text. 00:47:02
That's the best way Long. Yep, absolutely. So that's something we can work on with our social media team. Maybe once a year they 00:47:08
could put out something on social media saying have you signed up for our public noticing alerts? Here's how you do it. 00:47:14
A question on this is there any value in us having anything other than we follow Utah State code like why? Why would we have 00:47:21
anything in here other than? 00:47:26
We do what's required in Utah State code. I might be able to answer if I make a great question. Something I learned when I was 00:47:32
studying for the ACP is that, like us planners, we have a responsibility to try to reach as many people as possible, especially 00:47:38
people who might be. 00:47:44
Marginalized, there might not be a privilege or whatever. And there's actually a a surprisingly large number of people over the 00:47:51
age of I think it was like 50 or 60. We don't have Internet access. And so with that comes trying to promote these kind of 00:47:59
meetings in a more traditional accessible way for people who don't have that. 00:48:06
I don't know. I personally don't know how the state code has changed though. That's the question for cash. So I think that that's 00:48:14
kind of the spirit of why that probably exists. 00:48:18
People are coming in. I think that's always good. And I know that's covered in here too. But all right. I was just checking to see 00:48:24
if it's just more duplication. That's most of this amendment is just getting rid of that published in a newspaper of a general 00:48:29
circulation in the area and then adding posted in other locations as required by Utah State code. And then there's a few other 00:48:35
smaller changes as I scroll here. 00:48:41
And it's that we are going to add it as an optional thing that we can do. Rachel might want to clarify me if I'm wrong here. But 00:48:47
it's pretty much saying that if it is something, maybe if it was something as big as updating the general plan, then we would 00:48:53
still go to the newspaper. We still could go to the newspaper. 00:49:00
So we're not removing it as the city will never do this, but it's more of a the city may do this and I'm wondering if there's an 00:49:07
opportunity to use HO as and have things posted in their creational facilities. 00:49:15
And we can work with our neighborhood services coordinator who's kind of working on building those those relationships to see if 00:49:26
that's something that they'd be willing to do as well. 00:49:30
Does Vineyard City have a permanent record series where it's retaining a copy of all of its public notices currently, or is it 00:49:35
relying on the Open Meetings website for that? 00:49:40
And you know, I don't know, I think Pam is using laser fish for, for, for, for like maintaining most of these records. So there is 00:49:46
a system set up. But I, you know, if, if you want, I could, I could say something else more than chat with her about it. So I so I 00:49:53
have a couple other specific questions and comments here. So personally, I actually use University of Utah digitizes all Daily 00:50:00
Herald Tribune and I've been through almost all of the Utah County notices. 00:50:08
I noticed a lot of government entities are using that to fulfill their their retention requirements, but it's actually not set up 00:50:44
for that. There's no agreement for that. 00:50:47
Yeah, we definitely retain them and there's a record series we could talk with with them and that actually might be a good 00:51:22
training too. It's it's just like how how Pam does our records. I think that'd be pretty informative for the Commission. It looks 00:51:28
like on our website they go back to 2017 is what's accessible on our website. But we have to think it it has to go back to 00:51:33
essentially the founding and we had city authors essentially since the city was established. It has been what 1902 since we've 00:51:39
had. 00:51:45
Municipal authority for, for zoning and a board of adjustments. So she, she keeps all the records. I think it's like billing 00:51:52
permits are like residential billing permits are the one thing we have to keep for a year. But for the most part, I think most our 00:51:58
records are in perpetuity. But we can, we can see it's banking even come during the next meeting. We could probably do like a 00:52:04
little training with her, you know? 00:52:10
No, I wouldn't be comfortable until we know what is the actual process currently. 00:52:18
And because, yeah, we make notice now, but how is it going to be available in the future? And knowing that other entities are 00:52:22
using the public notice website as the archiving piece and it's not set up to do that. I just wanna make sure we, yeah, we're, 00:52:27
we're happy to do that research. And if Pam's available, we'll see if we can get her at the next meeting too, if you guys continue 00:52:33
it. But yeah, we're. 00:52:38
Filling that oh that they absolutely are. They're they're readily available and I I mean, I have seen that. I see it weekly. You 00:52:45
got nothing to post. 00:52:49
To removing the newspaper department as long as there's a permanent record. OK, that makes sense. 00:52:53
OK, and then just the last section in our code, we have this flow chart. 00:52:59
That doesn't actually follow our code mostly this box right here that says following DRC technical review the planner schedule the 00:53:05
public hearing with the Commission and provides notices as required. So this is for specifically for conditional use permits and 00:53:12
we don't require our code doesn't require conditional use permits to go through public notice except for this box here. So if you 00:53:18
look at the all of the section of code talking about conditional use. 00:53:24
It doesn't mention public notice anywhere except for in this one box. And so that's the other thing we're going to do is just 00:53:31
eliminate this box. Just it also doesn't, you know, if we ever want to make other changes with the conditional use permit program, 00:53:37
we'd have to make changes to this box. And so it's just kind of a flow chart that. 00:53:43
That doesn't really help. 00:53:50
So but yeah, we're happy to continue it and and we can work with Pam to see if she would be able to come and kind of give you guys 00:53:53
more of a history on, on what we do with our records retention and make a vote, make a vote from there. So is the box to the right 00:53:59
of that? I'm looking at the right as you look at is it would it also be removed? So we'd remove the whole box, but not just not 00:54:05
just those sections, but the whole flow chart. 00:54:12
Right, right. Yeah. Is is this something we would have to continue or could we put a condition saying? 00:54:19
Something along the lines of in last. 00:54:26
So, and this is actually it is a recommendation for approval to the City Council because it is a text amendment. So you could put 00:54:31
it into, I would assume you could put it into a contribution. 00:54:36
And Pam will be at that next meeting where this is being discussed. 00:54:42
I prefer to just move it and actually have Pam come and explain how are we maintaining the records and, and what's the plan. My, 00:54:48
my assumption is actually it's probably Utah open meetings. A lot of people are just moving into that digital. And if that's the 00:54:55
case, then I think there'd be more conversation there because it's not built to do that. 00:55:01
But OK, we'll move to the public comments right now unless. 00:55:10
Thank you. 00:55:16
All right. If any members of the public have any comments on the specific zoning text amendment, you can come and station name. 00:55:19
If not. 00:55:27
Then I'll drive a motion to close public comments. I make a motion to close our public hearing. 00:55:29
That we don't close it yet. Can we close the public hearing if it's continued? Do we not close the public hearing? You can close 00:55:36
the public hearing and continue the, the, the, the decision on it. That's fine. 00:55:42
All in favor, Aye, All right. Is this something we want to continue? So I I agree we need to hear from Pam. I would be comfortable 00:55:50
making that recommendation with the conditions to the City Council, as long as Pam presented that to the City Council there and we 00:55:56
could we could attend. I would be comfortable with that. But I also understand if you wanted to do that before we can recommend it 00:56:02
City Council. I'm not sure what the I would. 00:56:09
Feel uncomfortable giving a recommendation if we don't know how it is being permanently recorded, like if it if it's something 00:56:15
that has no guarantee of being interested, right? 00:56:22
I mean, I don't think this is high priority per SE. 00:56:31
And then I think go to the Commission with even a recommendation of here's how it should be maintained. OK, I know I like to rely 00:56:38
on the expert in the room and that Chris seems to know that a fair bit more than I do about this. 00:56:45
For an addition or things like that. So it's from a categorical perspective, it makes it much easier to research. What are they 00:57:23
trying to find to, you know, prove precedent or things like that. I'm kind of just to clarify on that. So with like this building 00:57:29
that was getting a site plan amendment that wouldn't be on a public notice, that wouldn't be on the paper. Yeah, that that. So 00:57:35
yes, that that would be just that. We had a meeting tonight and then yeah. 00:57:42
But a rezoning, you know, like I asked about the variance board of adjustments, because normally a board of adjustment, you would 00:57:48
do a public notice for board of adjustment, if I'm correct, we don't really do much. I actually don't think our code requires it. 00:57:53
Really. Yeah. 00:57:57
Yeah. And what other cities I've worked at, and there's been like in Virginia, there was always a public hearing for a variance or 00:58:03
an appeal. 00:58:06
Alright, do I have a motion then? 00:58:12
I'd make a motion to just continue this to January. I have a second. I'll second that. All in favor and this is is this do we need 00:58:15
to roll? OK, we'll roll call. Chris, Tim. Hi, Bryce, I Anthony, Tay, right. That will be continued into our January meeting. Thank 00:58:23
you. All right, moving on to 4.4. 00:58:31
Another public hearing for a general plan amendment to the Active Transportation Plan. 00:58:41
So yeah, if he could continue that one. We have a setup in the in the agenda. 00:58:49
Just to continue though the public hearing notice there's what we're still doing some reviews and some final adjustments. We 00:58:54
thought we'd be ready tonight, but we we still have a little bit further to go. So cool. That would be for if you could contain to 00:59:00
January 4th. OK, appreciate that motion to continue to January do I January 4th 4th alright. And Anthony seconds on this is a roll 00:59:06
call again, Chris. 00:59:12
Tim Bryce. Hi. Anthony Tay, hi. All right. 00:59:19
Thank you. 00:59:24
Moving into work session 5.1 multifamily mixed-use building the yard. 00:59:26
OK, this is Brian McGann, City Planner. This project is one that we've been. 00:59:56
Excited to hear about. So this is the multifamily. 01:00:03
Multi use high density project that's at the end of 400 N just above Edgewater townhomes. And the applicant is they've submitted 01:00:09
for a site plan for this for this building, but they would like to 1st. 01:00:16
Do a work session with the Planning Commission. 01:00:24
On December the 8th, 2021 so almost exactly a year ago, a development agreement was approved by the City Council during a public 01:00:28
hearing to regarding this project. So here's some of the major project features is to refresh your memory. The applicants 01:00:37
proposing 341 residential units on 4.87 acres, 13,720 square feet of ground floor commercial. 01:00:45
A minimum of 15 short term rental units and at least an additional 15 furnished as such deed restricted open space to the east of 01:00:55
their property. Some of that open space is an Orem if I remember correctly. And so that needs to be de restricted that that can 01:01:02
only be used as open space to services project an internal parking structure to service to service the entire development. So this 01:01:09
year. 01:01:16
X Development or 50 mil LLC. 01:01:24
They've been really busy finishing up the Top Golf. We're super happy to see that finalized and it's going to be a great amenity 01:01:27
in assets of the city. And now they're ready to move forward with this project, so they're going to run us through their 01:01:31
presentation. 01:01:35
And I wasn't come forward. 01:01:40
Actually I don't have a thought. 01:01:45
Yeah, I gotcha. Yeah, I got you. 01:01:49
All right. 01:02:06
I. 01:02:13
OK, Eric Towner with X Development. 01:02:21
Wanted to go through. Thanks for taking the time to meet with us tonight. Hopefully it's not too long for you, but I do have a 01:02:25
number of questions as we'd like your input before we continue on with this design. We're pretty far along in the way of 01:02:32
architecture, nearly complete with civil engineering and, and design for that. Excited for this project. This is I think a, a new 01:02:39
style for the city. I don't think there's been something quite like it and in in this area of the valley, I think. 01:02:47
Thing you could see is something a little bit further South, closer to UVU, closer to the pedestrian. 01:02:54
Walkway that goes over to the university for student housing. While this isn't geared specifically for student housing, we do 01:03:01
anticipate there will likely be some students that go to university or Utah Valley University as well as younger families as well 01:03:08
as a good mix of of individuals from varying demographics. And with that, we have taken a year in designing this this project to 01:03:16
this point. A lot of that had to do with working in conjunction with the Top Golf next door. 01:03:23
Wanting to also understand timing for the city on on the rail spur removal that intersection at 400 N and Geneva Rd. Also 01:03:31
understanding. 01:03:36
You know, working with staff for a long time and and how 400 N is going to function. We just want to make sure we do this project 01:03:42
right. 01:03:45
And and I wanted to start out with probably a couple of questions about 400 N and maybe staff can answer some questions for us as 01:03:50
well. So what we have currently designed right here, I'm going to show it because it's easier to view from the landscape view. 01:03:56
This would be an aerial of 400 N with the reverse 45° stalls. Like I said, civil engineering is about 90% complete and we have 01:04:04
submitted for site plan application grading and everything is done to this point. But before we etch that in stone, we'd like to 01:04:11
to just verify and make sure that this design is what the what the city is looking for. So this is 400 N what we would have there 01:04:17
are cars who who had. 01:04:24
Westbound would be able to essentially back into their stalls. Is that what you're envisioning there, Morgan? 01:04:31
Yeah, that's that's what we've discussed initially. The downtown is going to have reverse angle parking. It's safer for for 01:04:38
bicycles. Some customers think they're really annoying though. So it's just one of those things that that we're we're still kind 01:04:44
of discussing. I don't know if Naseem, you want any part of this conversation and discuss some of this. 01:04:50
What are your thoughts? 01:04:57
So in regards to the reverse angle parking, I know we've had this discussion multiple times. So it's at the end of the day read 01:05:00
depends on the speed and also allowing cars to maneuver safely off outside their travel lanes, excuse me in terms of that. 01:05:09
I believe that we provide engineers provide our feedback in terms of how to whether we feel that it would be best to achieve both. 01:05:19
You know the city plans on having this corridor as this. 01:05:26
Slower quarter as they enter the city, sensors residential in the South, commercial in the north. So I think we've addressed that 01:05:34
that's a long range plan after the connections made to Geneva and there's only I believe that I have not yet seen these specific 01:05:40
drawings, but I believe that the developer has shifted the lanes or the parking stalls more to the north, allowing for cars to 01:05:46
maneuver outside their travel lanes in order to. 01:05:52
Deliver parking. Again, they're not going to be completely outside the travel lanes, but there will be at least a good buffer for 01:05:59
our cars to maneuver Safeway. At the end of the day, everybody comes down to attentive drivers. 01:06:05
On both ends of the people driving and the people backing out, they're backing in and backing out for there to be safe, safe, safe 01:06:11
environment. But. 01:06:15
There's any more speed so that it so you can it can, it can work as long as the speeds are like I said, like I said, every comes 01:06:21
down, it comes down to the speed and then the drivers actually drivers knowing and then, you know, allowing for allowing for a 01:06:27
little bit buffer. Because obviously you have some people who are going to choose to drive around those who are not who are, who 01:06:32
are, who are kind of back in. 01:06:37
Into the parking lot sauce. It's hard to engineer for every scenario however we do the best that we can so and I believe that I 01:06:44
mean just look at the drawings on the screen and knowing. 01:06:51
The developers background intent, I believe that that would be would be the way we have in the situation. 01:06:58
Do you have any update on the rail spur or the connection on 400? So the rail spurs though on the projects that we're working on, 01:07:06
it's AI say the train is moving as fast as Union Pacific allows trains to move down the. So we're working with the Union Pacific 01:07:14
FRA, which is the Federal Railroad Administration along with UDOT in terms of. 01:07:23
Getting the scope of the the projects that will work right now we're right now we're working through some environmental 01:07:33
mitigation. 01:07:36
Portions of that. 01:07:40
Environmental medications in terms of the well spur of realignment as consolidation as well as. 01:07:44
Aligned to that, we've submitted 10% designs for Union Pacific to be reviewing again moving as fast as the Union Pacific news as 01:07:54
well as we're working on other fronts with the Federal Railroads Administration for grant money in order to pay for the. 01:08:03
To pay for the environmental medication. So it's moving forward. We anticipate construction started around 2024-2025. Really, 01:08:13
really depends on approvals processes when construction starts. It's not a very lengthy process. We expect it to be done year, 01:08:19
year and a half. Again, the contractors are Union Pacific approved contractors as well. So very limited choices, but again, two 01:08:26
quality people as long as. 01:08:33
Who know how to do the work? 01:08:41
Any other questions here? Is there is there a contract in place with Union Pacific today that's actionable or is there still 01:08:43
pending? 01:08:47
So. 01:08:52
When you say contracts, I will say contractor is an agreement and a preliminary agreement in place. I guess we would call it like 01:08:54
an intent agreement with it's in place, OK. Of course everything relies on final design, design approvals, etcetera. 01:09:03
OK, very good. 01:09:13
We can bring that back to your heart. Are we planning a light on 400 N and Mill Rd. 01:09:45
OK, yes. 01:09:52
I don't know if that's been 100% determined. 01:09:54
So nasing the door again that is in the cities future plans, it's been denoted on the active transportation plan at the long run 01:09:59
by this owner. So sorry. 01:10:07
But of course under active transportation plan specifically for the pedestrian crossing and I know that the city is seeking, 01:10:16
seeking to get that that's air traffic signal. 01:10:21
You know, put in place because a lot of the surrounding development relies on improvements along that corridor in order to be 01:10:28
viable, OK. 01:10:33
I think it's going to be super important getting the light in there before. 01:10:38
If this development is going in before the connection on Geneva Rd. just because it's a lot more right there. 01:10:42
Cool, You can continue. Yeah. So here's an existing, the existing office building, medical building here, single story office 01:10:51
building with the pedestrian sidewalk that that goes east towards our project here. As you can see, at the request of staff, we 01:10:58
did move these reverse angle stalls a little to the north and a sidewalk would wrap those over there. We've aligned the driveway 01:11:04
access into the site. 01:11:11
With. 01:11:19
Site that you probably have not seen. 01:11:21
Yet, but will be located across the street and I'm imagining would probably be a requirement of the city. 01:11:25
So this is an access point into the site. 01:11:33
Let's see off of 400 N this will be the main access into the parking structure. 01:11:38
There will be pedestrian connectivity out to the sidewalks across walk across the access point. And this access point will mirror 01:11:45
another access point that for the property that we own to the South here. So we acquired the, the 9 acres South of here as well. 01:11:50
And this there will be an access point here so that they're, they're marrying each other there. I'm I'm sure that would be a 01:11:56
requirement of, of engineering as well. 01:12:02
Moving from there, there is another access point. This is a Top Golf parking lot right here that exists. This would be the north 01:12:10
side of the existing office building, 440 N St. That would access into the parking structure as well. So we have two points of 01:12:16
ingress and egress back here is where we would likely have trash collection and some dry utilities, Rocky Mountain Power boxes and 01:12:22
whatnot over in this area. 01:12:29
Continuing on with the pedestrian connectivity through the site from Topgolf. So we, we anticipate creating a crosswalk right here 01:12:36
with a sidewalk that would go up towards Top Golf and we'll make a pedestrian sidewalk between the existing parking lot for the 01:12:41
medical. 01:12:47
And the. 01:12:52
The new structure for the mixed-use building that would bring pedestrians to the front of the building. And just to clarify, is 01:12:54
the dashed line on the north, is that essentially? 01:12:58
What is that like 20 feet South of the netting for the top golf right here? Yeah, yeah. This dash line on the north here is just 01:13:03
kind of the end of this depiction, but it's it's about probably 50-60 feet from the net. Yeah. 01:13:10
So yeah, that that helps with seeing that this is an an overview. 01:13:20
Bird's eye view of the building right here would be open in between. Topgolf will have a main level parking structure with AI 01:13:26
believe at least 35 additional parking stalls, maybe up to 45 stalls. Currently on this concept that's showing 45. I think that 01:13:33
might be 35. Long term, this area that you see in pink would be commercial here and this would all be commercial over here. 01:13:40
On the main road in front of those reverse stalls. 01:13:48
Moving to the next floor, more parking. The building will wrap the parking garage, so there won't be a lot of visibility to the 01:13:52
parking structure itself from any of the public streets. 01:13:57
And then that'd be another floor and it just kind of mirrors all the way up. 01:14:04
To the top there. 01:14:08
One question we did have is with regards to exterior artwork, murals, things like that, What it what is, is there a requirement of 01:14:11
the city, Is there a process to get those approved? We're seeing a lot of really cool designs downtown in Salt Lake outside of 01:14:18
this market as well as there some type of requirement here. 01:14:25
I believe the mayor and council have been considering developing some sort of committee that would do cultural arts reviews. I'm 01:14:34
not, I'm not a hundred 100% sure. And so we we can double check on that. 01:14:40
The where it says the yard that like the, the mural itself. I mean, we, we would provide obviously some leeway for for art stuff 01:14:48
like that. I mean, there's just some basic First Amendment stuff that we wouldn't want to, you know, try, try to regulate. But 01:14:54
they were says the yard that would be part of the sign. And I believe the sign code that were writing right now would provide a 01:15:00
little bit more flexibility. 01:15:06
It would just still constrain like the size of signs, but it would allow for you to utilize their other areas on the building. And 01:15:12
so I think the sign would fall within compliance of what the proposed code would be. But it's the the mural stuff. We'd have to 01:15:18
look at what process the council's wanting to follow. And if I could just say, Morgan, you mentioned cultural arts, you know, that 01:15:24
type of thing. It would be very helpful and useful to the community have things relative to hit the history and the heritage as 01:15:30
well. 01:15:36
And so I'm hoping that in the definition of cultural arts that we're also including the concept of capturing the heritage and 01:15:43
history of Vineyard as well, whether it be agricultural type or Native American views or steel factory, you know, things like that 01:15:52
would capture what has created this community. So wherever we can do murals, I hope that that's been considered as well. 01:16:01
Right. I, I, I don't know exactly what the kind of parameters surrounding what, what that commissioner committee is going to be. 01:16:11
So we, we can find out and provide more, more information on that. I just, I don't want to say anything that's that's incorrect on 01:16:15
that so. 01:16:20
The Heritage Commission involved, yeah. 01:16:25
We love to be part of that. 01:16:29
OK. Yeah. Well, I'm happy to follow up with the with Ezra on that and see kind of for what they're thinking. 01:16:31
And some visual and interest that kind of provides little areas to help the building up the pop, but don't take away from the 01:17:07
overall kind of architectural escape that you've traded there. So yeah, I'll find out what the mayor wants to do with that and 01:17:12
like what types of regulations will be in place. Okay. 01:17:18
Yeah, and I I do like the idea of keeping some historical concept into the art. That would be great. 01:17:24
The next question I had was going to be on our landscape plan here. 01:17:33
And realizing that there are, you know, code requirements and everything else here, just so we do have that parcel next to us, 01:17:41
which is falls within Orem boundaries, right? 01:17:46
So to to show that parcel here. 01:17:53
Essentially this dark line right here that kind of comes out, we call it our club head lot. It looks like a flag down here. I mean 01:17:59
kind of go straight up here where a lot of our open space is within this lot, which we are, you know, obviously in our development 01:18:06
agreement, we're going to deed restrict this area here and keep it open space. 01:18:13
Is, is there we're going to be needing to have conversations with the city of Orem. We wanted to stop here first. Is there an 01:18:21
anticipation or a location for this path that I I know there's a vision for connectivity and have a path along Geneva Road and I 01:18:28
don't know what the plans are, Morgan for the the lot north of this. So as you go behind Top Golf and keep going north behind the 01:18:34
megaplex, I know that there's been some proposals. 01:18:41
To see our analytic crazy but one in our last we have a monthly meeting with U dot and we had discussed. 01:18:48
How the widening of Geneva Rd. is going to look, really what we need to know is kind of what impact is going to be kind of where 01:18:57
the asphalt is going to end. And if they're proposing a trial, we'd like them to propose a trial issue. We don't then the city is 01:19:02
going to undertake a trail there regardless. And that's something that's been in our long range plan. And so they told us they 01:19:08
would they would provide us at least with a. 01:19:14
And I, I don't believe about what level of design, but it's a kind of a concept Rd. section of what they're think Geneva Rd. Rd. 01:19:21
would be. And that that will help us to then try to match it up kind of with what the open space programming is going to be. And 01:19:28
you'll be able to tell kind of at least where they're where they expanded Rd. would be. And if they're doing a trail, then where 01:19:36
that would land. If not, then just understanding the space would help us know where, where where to put a trail. OK, so as. 01:19:43
Designed right now not understanding that we put our trail not too close to the building but it's it's closer to the building. 01:19:51
Just wanted to make sure we preserve that long term. I don't want it to get eaten up that there is a widening right and it would 01:19:57
be nice to have it be 1 trial and not necessarily having 2 dual trails competing. I've got some pickleball courts in this area as 01:20:04
well up north here. 01:20:11
This is our emergency vehicle access lane right here. It's got some different changes to hardscapes. You'll likely see artificial 01:20:19
turf, some pavers and concrete, some random basketball hoops placed here that will be strategic that you can actually play with, 01:20:27
but not not too invasive to to the site. It's not going to look like somebody just bought the basketball court here. 01:20:35
But this will be a drivable surface for fire. 01:20:45
We do need to provide fire access to this side of the building. 01:20:48
And, and have a hammerhead turn around for them here. I, I think this pickleball court will probably get pushed up into the corner 01:20:53
of this Hammerhead and, and, and have the emergency vehicle access wrap that a little more. We do have some envision some. 01:21:00
Features went with it throughout here and that will play off of the Top Golf. 01:21:08
Environment that people will be experiencing there while while people are hitting golf balls. So we have some gathering areas, 01:21:12
some benches, some fire pits, maybe outdoor ping pong tables made of concrete, outdoor ******** games and whatnot that people can 01:21:19
play. And in this area we just have envisioned as artificial turf for play surfaces or or hangout areas. 01:21:26
Right here, this is sunken below, so Top Golf sits up higher. There will be about a three to four foot retaining wall along this 01:21:37
side right here that will delineate the property line. 01:21:42
Let's see if I can get to. 01:21:52
Very kind of question for you. Yep. Is there a crash gate? 01:21:58
Right at the end of that parking, No, it there's just a, there's just a a drivable curb, curb lip that the emergency vehicles 01:22:01
would just drive right over. 01:22:06
You'll have the pavers that'll kind of distinguish the regular driveway from where the fire accesses or yeah. So what they do is 01:22:12
with trees or bollards purposes, it's not really known to this won't be known most likely to most people that it's a drivable 01:22:18
surface here, but it it will be very well known within the the fire department throughout. 01:22:25
Here's a concept of a. 01:22:34
Kind of a hangout spot with a fire pit right here. Umm. 01:22:37
As another fire pit concept and these imagine these pushed up against the top golf net property boundary line. Outdoor gathering 01:22:41
areas back there again will be drivable. There will be a clear marked area for the vehicles to drive through, but it will look 01:22:48
more like a hangout area than anything else. 01:22:54
Let's see. 01:23:07
So those are my questions about the site. Do you know about like the type of of of retail? I mean there there's been a lot of 01:23:10
interest in getting and you guys have done a great job getting kind of sit down restaurants and I think there's some interest in 01:23:16
you guys know, is there anything you know you'd be able to announce or, or or there's there's people that that are looking or even 01:23:22
just like categorically like what you're looking at for like the store frontages. Yeah, we are targeting kind of there is an 01:23:28
executive office suite concept that. 01:23:34
Is moving into suburban areas that's small it's not like a giant we work but they're they're smaller and they have rentable office 01:23:40
suites and conference rooms for people who are mostly work at home that could that could rent on an hourly basis that's one 01:23:46
concept we're looking at another concept we're looking at is an instructional facility that. 01:23:53
Works with nutrition and health. 01:24:00
Those types of uses is what we've targeted so far. We have not marketed this very hard and not talked to very many people about 01:24:05
it. 01:24:08
I will say food is going to be a little tough as far as the design of the building with the smells and getting the ventilation 01:24:13
right. We have explored that and we are anticipating being able to accommodate that if we find the right food use. Mike Gregory 01:24:18
would be awesome to have a sit down restaurant at the bottom floor here. 01:24:23
But that that is something that we is more complex than than I can explain as far as the smells and and the ventilation goes for 01:24:30
the rest of the building. 01:24:35
Is this mostly rental misconnect? 01:24:43
Yeah, this, this whole unit, this whole project, 341 units, pretty good mixed-use between one bedroom studio and two-bedroom 01:24:46
units. Some of them are more luxury, some of them are are pretty standard. 01:24:51
A good option for for a lot of people and then again some of these will be for short term rental purposes as well. We'll have a 01:24:58
full time staff on site to operate it more kind of like you would see a hotel operate. 01:25:05
So, so could you have this remind us what the short term rental is like a hotel a few days a week? Yeah, it could be anything from 01:25:12
one, one night to to 30 nights. So somewhere in that range. 01:25:19
So something that we've talked about a little bit here on the Commission as we've been dealing with different parking problems 01:25:29
with different. 01:25:33
What difference? 01:25:37
Neighborhoods. 01:25:39
Will you guys have a parking plan that you can bring to us so we can see? Yeah. Wait, so we're in the process of creating that 01:25:42
parking study. 01:25:45
For this project and not just the study, but how it will be managed, how you plan on doing out the turning stalls and stuff, I 01:25:49
think would be super helpful for us as we try to determine how we want to enforce that because with a lot of different places 01:25:54
that. 01:26:00
Have built, they've said that they're going to manage the parking and then they don't. And then the residents come to the city and 01:26:07
they're like, oh, you let them. 01:26:12
Build this and they didn't build enough parking when in reality is really just a management issue. 01:26:17
Yes, completely a management issue. And so I think yeah, Bryce, absolutely right. We see where the apartment complexes are really 01:26:23
on top of it. I mean, there's there'd be a couple problems, but it's really not that bad. But it's it's the ones that are just 01:26:28
kind of a free for all. Like that's this Tay knows. 01:26:33
From where she's at, but it's even gotten better there. But it's, you know, it's hard to compare it so yeah. But any kind of 01:26:39
parking plan on how we can see that so that. 01:26:46
If there is ever is a problem in the future, we can point it back like, hey, this is how it was approved, this is how it's being, 01:26:53
it should be being managed and so forth. I think could be really helpful. Yeah. So there is a parking study underway that would 01:26:59
that will include it's a, it's a full parking consultant firm that that helps us both manage parking, monetize parking as well for 01:27:05
us. And so there is there is a. 01:27:11
Again, management is key to making sure that the parking is handled appropriately and that the the renters are, you know, obeying 01:27:19
what the the requirements are of their lease. 01:27:24
Is there one entrance in the same? 01:27:30
Exit location for the parking garage, where is the exit on a different location? Yeah, so both both there are two ingress and 01:27:34
egress locations within on the parking garage. Both of them are are enter and exit. So you can go both ways on each. 01:27:42
I got a question for people wanting to use the commercial space. Can they park inside of the of the parking garage? And then if 01:27:53
they can, how do they get into the commercial? Yeah, so we're working on with our architectural design. So like right here, I 01:27:59
think you'll see there's a breezeway that we've created from within the parking structure itself working currently on, you know, 01:28:05
pedestrian processes through the parking structure itself. 01:28:11
Exactly where the stairwells go, the elevators go. 01:28:18
How people get from their cars to those locations. But yes, we are working on a couple of breezeways from the parking structure to 01:28:22
get to the main level outside. 01:28:26
And they're also, they're also doing the street parking that little. 01:28:33
And I'll provide some, some nice pull up right, right to the, you know, front doors. 01:28:37
Yeah. And we will, we will meet or exceed any of the parking requirements for this, for this project as well. But I think. 01:28:42
We just, we just need to manage it the right way. 01:28:51
Any other questions? 01:28:57
I think it looks great. So as far as the site plan goes, yeah, that's before I did want to move over to the architecture in just a 01:29:00
second. So as far as the site plan goes, aside from obviously needing to meet engineering standard code requirements, anything 01:29:06
else, is there any input or or something that you guys envisioned that we're not showing? 01:29:12
On the site plan itself, the overall site plan. 01:29:20
I'd say if you could detail the courtyard amenities, I I think that that'll be pretty important. And then there's always the 01:29:26
question about dogs. Yeah, you know, are, are, are you just not going to allow dogs or is there going to be at least a dog run or 01:29:32
something that that could accommodate? So this area right here is is made as a dog park right here that will be fenced in. And 01:29:38
then over here is where we will encourage. 01:29:44
You know, owners who are feel feel more comfortable that they don't have to be in here, that their dogs are trained to a level 01:29:52
that they can hang out around them. But this is the. 01:29:56
The pet area right here. 01:30:00
Eric, another comment is. 01:30:03
I know that the top Golf and and this multifamily building from a partner development, but they will be treated separately in 01:30:07
terms of requirements, in terms of like landscape requirements. 01:30:13
Building design, any sort of calculation that we need to run parking that they just to keep in mind that they're treated 01:30:20
separately. So like for example, like trees that might be on the top golf side won't count towards like this this project and 01:30:26
shrubs and things like that. 01:30:31
OK, there's no other comments on the site. I'd like to move to architecture. 01:30:42
If we can. 01:30:48
OK. So as far as exterior materials go, we'll have some thin brick, obviously some stucco, some Ethus, I believe there's some 01:30:52
metal and some some faux kind of wood looking materials. Here is what we've been working through up to this point. 01:31:00
Is there something that that I'm missing here? Is there a variation that was envisioned that we're not achieving with this type of 01:31:10
look or this type of concept? 01:31:14
I think especially with the murals it looks great. 01:31:22
Personally. 01:31:24
I think it'd be awesome if the city could. 01:31:27
Make that happen. So we are trying to highlight. So this mural right here would actually be kind of like the direct angle that's 01:31:29
looking from the topic of hitting base. You'd be looking directly at that mural, it comes to a point in the building up to that 01:31:34
mural right there. 01:31:40
At one point I wanted to make that a giant outdoor TV screen, but. 01:31:49
That got thrown out really fast. 01:31:55
How's the with those murals? Are you looking at it like embedding the LED strip lighting or anything like that? Yeah, there's a 01:31:57
number of elements that we could incorporate into the into the mural. I do envision, envision having some type of light to be seen 01:32:04
at night as well. But so you have like architectural light kind of on the outside to yeah. Or recessed and or recessed into the 01:32:11
into the building in China, you know. 01:32:18
And that would be the final look that I think we're going with. This is version. 01:32:28
38 are you planning any like rooftop access, roof, rooftop patio? I I see that you have kind of some individual patios. You wanna 01:32:32
maybe talk about it? 01:32:38
Yes, As far as building amenities go, we are at that point where we're in the process of of designing building amenities that will 01:32:45
have good overlooks. 01:32:50
To the to the top off and whatnot. Exactly. 01:32:56
How those are scheduled or the size or the layout is not done yet. 01:33:02
The part that's over the top golf parking right here. So if you go up to the 6th floor on that piece. 01:33:35
Working on where that mechanical equipment's going to be scheduled, but essentially it would be this corner of the of the building 01:33:43
right on this side or this side of the mural. 01:33:47
And I'll be looking towards the the golfers at Top Golf. 01:33:54
You can put some hitting bays on this side. 01:34:04
We had a. 01:34:09
Idea for maybe a bungee jump off of this? There we go. 01:34:10
Any comments, questions, anything? 01:34:18
Cool. 01:34:25
Yeah, I think that looks great. 01:34:26
Yeah. The only things that I would add are basically just things that need to happen with you in the city and the rail spurs are 01:34:30
really out of your hands stuff is. 01:34:34
OK. 01:34:39
So timing of this looking into the future and I know there's some unknowns right now, but. 01:34:42
What might be? 01:34:48
I think we would have a permit set ready at this point. 01:34:50
Probably at the sentence would be probably four months from now. 01:34:58
To have a permit set and then the process with the review for the city. 01:35:03
Might be a little while until we have that permit ready to pull. 01:35:09
Construction costs are coming down, so that's good. 01:35:16
So maybe a year from now to break ground, yeah, that we didn't, we would anticipate hoping, hoping to have some footings in 01:35:19
hopefully this time next year so they could start going vertical and. 01:35:25
I the build process where we're going to be likely submitting a phase where we could open maybe a portion of the building or wing 01:35:33
of the building. We'll work with staff to see if there's something within the code that we can accomplish that way as this, this 01:35:40
looks to be about a 24 month at least build process for this building. 01:35:46
All right. 01:35:53
Any other questions from staff or? 01:35:57
No, yeah, we'll we'll start, you know, working with X dev to get everything ready for an official site plan review. But yeah, 01:36:00
we're we're excited about this project. We've been anticipating it for about a year now. So it's it's nice to see this portion of 01:36:07
that site build out. So we'll get addition. Great. So awesome. Thank you, Eric. Thank you. 01:36:13
Alright, moving on to 6. 01:36:22
.1 training session for the Utah land use institute but. 01:36:24
So we were going to provide you manuals. 01:36:32
From the state of Utah. They're still sitting on my desk, so I'll give those to your next meeting. Sounds good. 01:36:36
Cool. Then we'll move to Commission member report and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 01:36:44
Anybody have anything to report? 01:36:50
Did anybody go to the Christmas tree lighting? 01:36:54
Yeah, it was very cold, very windy. 01:36:58
But they had some trash cans on fire for us to stay warm by. My kids were singing at it. Lots of floating embers from the trash 01:37:03
can. 01:37:08
So. So there was an elementary school there singing. Yeah, they had. 01:37:14
Cookies for the cookies and hot cocoa for like 100 people there and I would guess there's probably 100 people there. 01:37:20
And I understand Commissioner Welch gave a very short historical sketch. I saw her speaking. I did not. You didn't hear her. 01:37:27
Well, I just wanted to mention that that came about because the Heritage Commission was trying to get involved in that tree 01:37:37
lighting and those are the two ways that we could get involved was to have somebody talk a little bit about the history. So just 01:37:43
moving the mouth is OK. It would be better if you could have heard. 01:37:49
And I think some people I was, I was further back so and the fact that the fact that there was an elementary school choir, there 01:37:56
was also our creation of getting it done through the city so. 01:38:02
I'm glad to have seen that happen, those who were able to be there. 01:38:09
And I guess just a report on me. This is my last meeting. 01:38:14
Ever, ever. After eight years on the Planning Commission, I think this is my last meeting, so thank you. Will you be able to 01:38:19
continue on with the the Heritage? Yeah, that's completely separate. But when you see me down there, don't forget. 01:38:26
Who I am and from whence I've come. Well, and 12 months ago. 01:38:35
Don't get too, you know, relaxed. 01:38:41
You've been, you've been great in the role. You've been very helpful, especially in keeping the reminder to remember where we've 01:38:44
been and, and where we're going. Well, who can I look to to continue that voice in discussions like today? 01:38:50
Hopefully all of us, yeah, I would hope so. Yeah. I'll just raise the hand. That's when I raise it. You say, oh, by the way, can 01:38:57
we put a mirror? The general plan is where you can look to. We should all be looking to that more, right. That's we've throughout 01:39:02
it so. 01:39:06
Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you, Tim, because I appreciate your views on everything. 01:39:11
They're different than my views in some ways, but. 01:39:17
But if you think about things that I, I don't ever think about, and it's great and it brought a massive help to the Planning 01:39:22
Commission and a different point of view. And I very much appreciated that and having you on board. And I have mentioned in 01:39:27
meetings that you're not here that in the spirit of Tim, I'm going to mention this for the Heritage Commission too. That's 01:39:33
happened. I've done that. 01:39:38
I'll try to continue to do that. 01:39:44
Umm, any staff? Yeah. So, umm, no. And I, I appreciate the kind words towards Tim. I wanted to, to just just kind of from the 01:39:47
staff side, tell you just how grateful we are for you. I mean, I, I can tell you from 6 1/2 years ago when I started with the 01:39:54
city, we had I think 2500 residents or so. Tim was so helpful to me. That was the, that was the first full time planner. We had 01:40:01
another. 01:40:07
Some consultants that had helped us out in the past. 01:40:15
But it was a lot of work and you just trying, trying to get, get on with the Commission and understand where development was going 01:40:18
with the city and Tim carried a really heavy load. I I remember Tim wrote the first bylaws for the Commission. He was really 01:40:24
instrumental in structuring the Commission so that. 01:40:29
He was instrumental in updating the general plan. As most of you know, I, you know, he started the the Heritage Commission or was 01:41:06
a very instrumental piece of that. I, I look back and I. 01:41:13
You know, a lot of the conversation that we've had about our heritage and about our roots and informing our future discussion and 01:41:21
trying to craft what is our vision for the city, like what, what do we want to become? Tim has been so instrumental in helping us 01:41:28
understand like where we came from as the city. And I I just think there's, there's been so much value added because of that and 01:41:34
it's helped shape where where we're going. And you're such a big part of that. So thank you. 01:41:41
He assisted with the 1st Trail and Parks Plan. I, I, I remember that was like one of those first big projects that we undertook as 01:41:50
a, as a Planning Commission. 01:41:54
And also kind of same thing, making sure that we try to incorporate heritage or or speak back to, to to our roots as we look at 01:41:59
parks and trails. 01:42:03
He, you know, we have Commission, he did the downtown ordinance. He was a part of the kind of the, or the accessory dwelling unit 01:42:09
ordinance, the signage code that that would that's always been such an important thing. That seems like it's always coming back to 01:42:16
you. The waterfront master plan, the train station and heritage panels and those are so cool. And I was able to to bring my family 01:42:22
down there and, and show those and Tim is a really important part of helping us find photos. 01:42:29
This helping us kind of understand the context to those photos and helping to display that to the public because they think of the 01:42:36
train station is also a gateway in into our city. And so that those are the first things that many people see to him. And so thank 01:42:43
you for helping us make it just a memorable experience for people that visit the city via the train. 01:42:50
And the Vineyard summer celebration or the Vineyard Heritage days. And you know, I don't know where that would even be. Without 01:42:59
doubt himself. So anyway, just. 01:43:04
A round of applause, I guess, for Tim. 01:43:11
We love you and you know, you're a friend and you know, hopefully we can continue to, to, to work with you. I think we will. 01:43:17
You'll stay on the Heritage Commission. But you know, thank you for all, all your contributions. Appreciate it. Thank you. 01:43:23
Thank you any others from planning staff. 01:43:29
Cool, I did have a couple of follow up questions from previous meetings. Were able to find out anything with the Postal Service. 01:43:35
Yes and no. So I actually, I went and met with the Postmaster General. I think that's their title. And just mentioned, you know, 01:43:43
just a reminder, we're down here in Vineyard and we don't have any kind of Dropbox. And he's actually kind of surprised he didn't 01:43:47
know that. 01:43:51
He said it does, he has to go through approval way beyond him in order to do that. So I gave him my contact information. This is 01:43:57
probably maybe a week and a half ago. I think I went the following week after we had that discussion and I haven't heard back from 01:44:04
them yet. I'll, I'll probably go maybe after the holiday season when things have slowed down for them and kind of remind them and 01:44:11
see where that and that process to see if you know any progress is made on those approvals. So, but it definitely wasn't a no. 01:44:19
Him OK. 01:44:26
What area do they cover? So this is the Postmaster General from the Warm Center St. building? Yeah. 01:44:30
I think they're the the post office that that service is our city. 01:44:38
And then the other question I had, maybe something we can do in January is as far as. 01:44:43
Making some kind of code for parking for new developments. 01:44:50
And having them enforce their parking, is that something we can do? 01:44:55
Because we have these agreements with developers, they come in and they're like, oh, we're going to manage it. We've got this 01:45:01
great plan for management and then they change management and it just all goes crazy. And then the city's to blame and we're 01:45:07
awful. Is there something we can do to like get it in code? Like if like a parking plan needs to be approved with a developer 01:45:13
agreement or something? 01:45:20
And then they need to hold to that. I, I definitely put in the code. The code is going to be your strongest place for that in 01:45:26
places like the mixed-use development with X development. It's something that we've discussed quite a bit. So they're anticipating 01:45:32
doing it. And that's an easier thing because it's like 1 contained like site, basically one really large building. But yeah, I, I 01:45:39
totally get it. And I mean, let's just be honest, the lakefront, a Town Center. 01:45:45
We had a lot of promises and what's frustrating is. 01:45:52
Base standards for parking management. 01:46:25
OK. So yeah, if we could do some kind of work session on that, I think it would be valuable. Well, and if you manage parking too, 01:46:27
that's gonna manage your occupancy. Absolutely. Yeah. So yeah. And I mean the biggest concern, even if the biggest concern with 01:46:35
multi family dwellings or like high density isn't so much the people as much as it is the traffic. And so if that's mitigated by 01:46:42
parking, by limiting parking in certain ways, then even if there are multiple people living in an. 01:46:50
Like, that's fine. It's the cars and the traffic that people are concerned about and don't like. So OK, cool. Any other? 01:46:58
If not, then meeting is adjourned. 01:47:07
scroll up