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Event transcript
All righty. Good morning, everybody. I would like to welcome everybody up to City Council. 00:12:50
Today I am Mayor Zach Stratton, and it is. 00:12:55
10:00 So we'll go ahead and. 00:12:59
Get started. 00:13:02
I'm going to turn the time to Councilman Larae to introduce our. 00:13:04
Pledge of Allegiance and our prayer participants this morning. 00:13:08
Thank you, Mayor. 00:13:13
So it's my pleasure to introduce Nathe and Emery Venisi. 00:13:14
Who are? 00:13:18
Study home school and they're going to. 00:13:20
Give us our invocation. 00:13:22
And then lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:13:24
No, I think can you come to the podium there? 00:13:31
Thanks bud. 00:13:34
Yeah, should be on. 00:13:38
Heavenly Father, thank you for this wonderful day. 00:13:41
Thank you for. 00:13:44
All you've done and will do. 00:13:45
Please bless that the City Council can have the. 00:13:47
Make the right decisions and the correct decisions. Give them wisdom. 00:13:51
And uh. 00:13:55
Thank you for everything you do in names, Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:13:56
Amen. 00:13:59
Please stand. 00:14:02
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God. 00:14:08
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:14:19
Awesome guys. Thank you and so. 00:14:25
Since you said the prayer and the pledge, we have a pin for you. 00:14:28
How are we doing on pins, Tony? Were you running low? 00:14:31
OK, we have so many pins, so come up here and tell me, we'll give you guys a pin. 00:14:35
Thank you so much, you guys are awesome. 00:14:39
All righty, we're going to jump into our work session. The first item 2.1 is discussion around the. 00:14:42
Transportation utility fee. 00:14:47
And today we have Cody and Josh, Cody's from EFG and then we've got Josh with Hales Engineering. So they have a presentation. 00:14:49
So I recognize them and invite them to to go ahead and do that and. 00:14:57
As if we have questions during the presentation, just jump in. Absolutely sounds great. Thank you, Sir. 00:15:03
All right, so we shared this information. 00:15:11
In a couple of work sessions and City Council meetings at the end of last year. 00:15:13
So some of this will. 00:15:19
Maybe slightly out of order of what? 00:15:22
May make the most sense, but like we said, Mayor, please jump in and ask questions as we move forward. So I'll just jump right to 00:15:24
this slide which. 00:15:28
The Last City Council asked for two specific options about the transportation utility fee. 00:15:32
Camera so I can see the presentation as well. 00:15:40
Presentation. Presentation. 00:15:52
Right, OK. 00:15:54
You don't. You don't need to see the presenter. 00:15:58
There's no, there's no value in that. 00:15:59
Yes. 00:16:10
I could do that, yeah. 00:16:21
Should I do that? 00:16:22
Yeah, just send me the link. 00:16:28
OK. 00:16:59
You just want to make sure your audio is off. 00:17:03
I'll turn both. 00:17:09
Mike and my. 00:17:09
Yeah, yeah. 00:17:12
Phone, yeah. 00:17:26
Coming through that. 00:17:37
I think I just heard it. 00:17:38
At least I know that it's a. 00:17:45
On its way. 00:17:54
It wasn't on this was it? 00:18:06
Was it on the old invite? 00:18:07
Yeah, that's the same one. 00:18:12
Let's try that. 00:18:17
Let me make sure. 00:18:22
It's the same number anyway. 00:18:25
By yourself now and say your own prayer. 00:18:39
And I think we're good. 00:18:50
Yeah, all right. The answer is on the. 00:18:55
Oh, OK. 00:19:00
No worries. 00:19:02
My personal one was sorry you grabbed the wrong. 00:19:06
Yeah. 00:19:09
This is the one I made. 00:19:10
So I don't need to join a different. 00:19:15
Link or something? I got a little bit of that. 00:19:17
No. 00:19:19
I assess it's a long way. 00:19:20
All right, came through on my phone. 00:19:29
Keep that gap. But this is right. We're going to need it. 00:19:36
Sometimes it will let me. 00:19:44
Sometimes not for men. 00:19:47
It's on the same network sometimes. 00:19:54
I never figured that one out. Google Phone and Windows. Yeah, nice last day they did Google. 00:19:58
There's a lot of cities here. 00:20:03
That's it. 00:20:06
Audio off Don't use audio. 00:20:25
Yeah, like that. 00:20:29
OK, so I just need to share my screen, is that right? Yeah. 00:20:40
Now you can just go through your presentation. 00:20:50
Can you see that? 00:20:57
Yeah. Thank you. Good. OK. 00:21:02
I feel like that was a little anticlimactic now. 00:21:06
OK, I'm going to just jump here. 00:21:09
Actually to. 00:21:13
I'm going to jump to this slide even though I'm not an engineer. 00:21:19
So the purpose behind? 00:21:23
The transportation impact, The transportation utility fee. 00:21:25
Was to collect. 00:21:30
I changed my mind again. I'm going to start here to collect. 00:21:33
Sufficient revenue. 00:21:36
To ensure that all of your capital projects and all of your transportation. 00:21:38
Costs were covered. 00:21:44
So my company EFG Consulting teamed. 00:21:46
With Hales engineering. 00:21:50
Develop a methodology. 00:21:53
To implement. 00:21:56
These projects so Hell's their scope was to look at? 00:21:59
With NASIM. 00:22:03
The costs of pavement management and other. 00:22:04
Capital projects that would be needed. 00:22:08
And my task was then. 00:22:12
To look at those costs, work with. 00:22:14
The Finance department. 00:22:16
And 1st, starting with the operating costs. 00:22:18
Like what costs are? 00:22:21
Being born by. 00:22:22
The transportation fund. 00:22:24
From an operational. 00:22:26
Basis or you're talking about salaries and wages and some of those other costs of that nature and then looking at secondarily what 00:22:28
capital projects do you need? So there are very specific capital projects and then there's also. 00:22:35
Ongoing pavement management. 00:22:41
And that is by far the largest cost is the pavement management. 00:22:44
We also looked at. 00:22:47
Options of. 00:22:48
Of debt. 00:22:50
If we need to. 00:22:51
To fund some of these large projects. 00:22:53
Use debt. 00:22:56
And then we also deployed some financial metrics. 00:22:57
Specifically, how much cash? 00:23:00
You should be carrying year over year. 00:23:02
To ensure that you have enough for an emergency situation that might occur. 00:23:05
Then ultimately that. 00:23:10
Landed with. 00:23:12
A revenue requirement. 00:23:13
Meaning, how much annual revenue do we need every year from? 00:23:14
The transportation utility fee, aside from Class B Rd. funds and the highway tax and other general fund monies that you have. 00:23:19
What would be needed? 00:23:27
From the constituency that you serve. 00:23:29
To ensure that you can deploy. 00:23:31
Covering this capital and. 00:23:34
Operating costs. 00:23:37
So just looking at. 00:23:39
Graphically, so there's a spreadsheet behind this, a 10 year projection of expenditures, revenues, fund balances. 00:23:42
But starting here with. 00:23:49
Graphical representation of that which is easier to understand. 00:23:51
That red line represents 2025. That vertical line there. 00:23:56
So we are here in fiscal year 2026, we're halfway through. 00:23:59
2026. 00:24:04
Historically. 00:24:05
The majority of your costs have been. 00:24:07
Broken up between capital and. 00:24:09
Personnel. 00:24:11
And some transfers out to the Administration Administrative Fund. 00:24:14
Hidden going forward, you can see the green on top. 00:24:18
Is your ongoing capital projects. 00:24:21
It's a meaningful amount of money that will be needed. 00:24:24
To ensure that your Rd. system. 00:24:28
Meets its useful life and provides the service that it's intended to provide. 00:24:30
This light blue has been added because we have assumed that. 00:24:35
The best way to manage. 00:24:39
That annual revenue requirement is to issue debt in 2026 to cover. 00:24:40
Some of those large. 00:24:45
Capital projects. 00:24:46
That's of course up to your discretion to do that. 00:24:48
A couple questions on this slide here specifically. So I see the where did these underlying assumptions for this graph? 00:24:51
Come from Is this was this input from staff or was this just? 00:24:59
Yeah. So the historic numbers came from your historic expenses and then yes, projecting forward on the operating side it was. 00:25:03
Meeting with staff on the financial side, but then the capital projects, which are by far the largest was Hales Engineering with 00:25:11
with Naseem and the rest of the administrative team. 00:25:16
Thank you. 00:25:22
So to discover things like snow removal and things like that. 00:25:23
Yeah, this would be all of your transportation related costs. 00:25:26
OK, could I ask? 00:25:29
And maybe Naseem, if you know and you can chime in on this. 00:25:32
Why is there such a sharp increase? I mean what assumptions LED? 00:25:36
To the increase between 2025 through 2028. 00:25:40
On the on the capital side, yeah, the City Hall expenses or any of those kind of things, this is only transportation related 00:25:47
infrastructure. 00:25:50
So, umm. 00:25:54
Bridge. 00:25:55
The bridges. 00:25:56
So here's a list of the capital projects that might be helpful. You want to speak to these? Yeah, yeah. So Josh Gibbons with Hales 00:25:58
Engineering, so. 00:26:02
The the spike you see is really just based on the timing that we expected that some of these projects would come online. 00:26:05
So that's why you see. 00:26:12
Mainly 2028 we showed Lake Blvd. a project there. That's a. 00:26:14
$5 million project or so. 00:26:18
So just based on the timing of those capital projects, that's why you see a spike those years. 00:26:20
And can I ask I went through this. 00:26:25
PDF already. 00:26:28
To my understanding and I just wanted to make sure that it was correct and that I wasn't misreading. 00:26:29
Your 28,000 for pavement preservation, that's actually. 00:26:35
The entire time through the 2030 projection on here, correct? 00:26:38
Correct. And that's based on the historical data that we got from. 00:26:43
From the city. 00:26:47
While we have it up. 00:26:50
Can I ask? 00:26:52
Your professional opinion? 00:26:53
What of these projects? 00:26:55
Is necessary immediately and which of these would we have room potentially to space out overtime to mitigate our upfront costs? 00:26:57
Overall, I'd say that was taken into account with the timelines. 00:27:07
For the years, honestly you've a few projects for 2026. 00:27:10
600 N of Main Street has been a topic as we worked on the. 00:27:15
The master plan the last couple years and. 00:27:18
Just driving in today. 00:27:21
You know, it was a good reminder to myself of. 00:27:23
Why a traffic signal is needed at that intersection soon? 00:27:26
So I would say. 00:27:31
All the ones in 2026 are needed. 00:27:32
Right away, yeah. 00:27:35
So you include Main Street to Zinfandel? 00:27:44
Main Street, Citadel to 400. 00:27:48
For this year. 00:27:51
And that was is that. 00:27:52
That was already built. 00:27:54
So is that considering this? 00:27:55
Yeah, I think it does say 2026 to to say it was an immediate need that was built while we worked on the master plan. So it it was 00:27:57
already built, but the goal here would be to. 00:28:01
Maybe recoup some of that cost. It's kind of the thought I see. 00:28:06
Thank you. 00:28:10
And Disney. And I know that, Josh. 00:28:12
Cody could probably elaborate better more on this when the capital comes to capital projects. 00:28:16
There are certain percentages that can be paid out of impact fees and there's certain. 00:28:21
Percentages that are not allowed to be paid up in fact fees. 00:28:25
So some of these capital projects are? 00:28:28
I would say is a portion of it being paid off impact fees and portion of it being paid off like. 00:28:33
More of the utility ag. 00:28:39
Specific and I know and I say I know that Josh and. 00:28:41
Could elaborate more on on the requirements to that. 00:28:43
So the proportion to be paid out of impact fees has already been removed from this, is that correct? 00:28:47
Yeah. So there can be some adjustments we can make to this now. 00:28:53
This this was this process was completed before the impact fees were. 00:28:57
Finalized. 00:29:01
We're at the stage now where we're close to coming. 00:29:03
To the Council again with the impact fees for review. 00:29:06
So my suggestion to staff NASIM and the council would be to. 00:29:10
We could look at some adjustments here. 00:29:15
To make sure we do account for impact fees. 00:29:16
That way we're not double charging anybody for anything. 00:29:19
So thank you. 00:29:24
So just looking at this next slide will help answer that question. 00:29:25
In some regard. 00:29:30
So this is this is all of the revenue that we anticipate coming into the transportation fund. 00:29:31
And historically you've had Class B, Class C, Rd. funds and transportation. 00:29:37
Tax, which is the sales tax. 00:29:42
And now going forward, we're seeing we also need rate revenue. 00:29:45
And then this little. 00:29:48
Yellow piece is impact fees, so we've made an assumption of where your impact fee might be. 00:29:51
When we were doing this. 00:29:55
So. 00:29:57
We've shown all the capital projects that need to be paid for. 00:29:58
And then this represents the subsidy that would come in and offset some of those? 00:30:01
Disproportionately. 00:30:05
If that makes sense. So the transportation fund has to fund everything up front and impact fees only come in as. 00:30:09
Building occurs and reimburses the transportation fund for those costs. 00:30:15
Or the general fund, however it's structured. 00:30:20
Did you guys provide any? 00:30:22
Consulting on what the impact fees. 00:30:24
Are currently or what they should be looking like moving forward? Or is this just totally assumption? 00:30:27
So. 00:30:32
Did. 00:30:33
It was an educated guess based on the projects that we already had in the pipeline. So I assume that this will be based on where 00:30:34
we are now and that impact fee analysis because we are jointly doing that as well. 00:30:39
Josh and I. 00:30:44
It'll be very close. 00:30:45
To what that is, I mean what the maximum amount you could charge. It will obviously be at your discretion to determine what that 00:30:46
fee should actually be. 00:30:50
But it is important to Nassim's point on this. 00:30:55
Previous slide that I mean the biggest cost by far. 00:30:57
Is the 28 million in pavement preservation? I mean, that's the that's the big one and. 00:31:00
Pavement preservation is not an eligible. 00:31:05
Expense for impact fees. 00:31:07
It can only be for capital projects that add capacity to your system. 00:31:09
So anything that is maintenance or repair. 00:31:14
Is not an eligible expense for the impact piece. 00:31:17
Can I ask just for my own understanding? 00:31:20
Because I'm willing to ask dumb questions to learn. There's no dumb question is that. 00:31:22
As a result of a state code or a city code. 00:31:26
State code, yeah. So the the impact the act. 00:31:29
Is very clear that it can only be for capital projects. 00:31:32
That are system wide improvements. 00:31:35
So they. 00:31:37
Benefit to the whole system and that AD capacity. 00:31:38
So that's. 00:31:42
That's the whole heart of the impact fee. 00:31:43
So and can I ask then on the? 00:31:46
Pavement preservation does that. 00:31:49
This seems is that part of that peak because we have a lot of roads to do one year and. 00:31:51
We can't. We can't spread out. 00:31:55
Yeah. So on the pavement preservation, the way that we did the analysis on that is that. 00:31:57
So there's when you're projecting for. 00:32:03
Future pavement preservation, there's factors that come in play. One of the factors is the Broadway condition. And we, we did a 00:32:06
roadway condition study about two years ago, three years ago roughly. So we take that into a factor. 00:32:13
And then we look into like. 00:32:20
Projected degradation. 00:32:21
But also we also. 00:32:24
Take it. Take it into account when the road was built. 00:32:25
And and. 00:32:28
A lot over the roads here. Chris Thomas, who's our streets manager, who just who's who's here now. 00:32:31
A lot of the roads were built roughly around the same time. 00:32:36
As well. 00:32:38
So you're kind of getting to the point where you're trying to, you're managing the roads pavement preservation on. 00:32:39
A series of rows that were that came online about the same time and then. 00:32:45
Are degrading about the same time. 00:32:49
So when we do our pavement preservation. 00:32:51
With the funds that are approved. 00:32:55
Prior to actually doing pavement preservation. 00:32:58
And with the study that we that we had done. 00:33:00
We go out and do like a realistic assessment, like a walk on site assessment and that's done on an annual basis before actually 00:33:03
implementing it. So but we're projecting that. 00:33:07
Majority of the roads will require a more extensive. 00:33:12
Paper preservation method. 00:33:17
Around the same time. 00:33:19
So could I ask then, Chris? 00:33:21
If we had to delay. 00:33:23
A couple of roads for a year or two. 00:33:26
Are there some that would? 00:33:28
Hold it better that we could do that with. 00:33:29
I mean, for sure you could, you could do that. 00:33:35
How bad would it hurt? 00:33:38
Well, I think the problem is we're already falling behind on our pavement preservation. We already have rules that need to be 00:33:40
retreated. 00:33:43
So when we start pushing stuff then it just. 00:33:48
Magnifies our problem down the road. 00:33:51
And so, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, you can see that with that. 00:33:53
Graph that. 00:33:57
The more we. 00:33:58
Take care of them up front. 00:33:59
The more. 00:34:01
It saves us in the long term. 00:34:02
If we decide to push that down the road. 00:34:04
It becomes more expensive to deal with down the road. 00:34:06
Thank you very much. 00:34:10
Thinking about biting my tongue or just being honest and since this is a new council. 00:34:18
It's really important. 00:34:25
That people understand that. 00:34:27
The roads were built. 00:34:30
Hoping that businesses would come. 00:34:33
And that's when the clock of the aging of the roads. 00:34:35
Started to crumble. 00:34:39
Because you started the clock. 00:34:40
But then if the businesses don't come. 00:34:42
You have to go and repave it, right? 00:34:44
And so we've we have a lot of empty roads in. 00:34:46
A lot of different sections that. 00:34:49
We're getting old, but didn't have tax revenue coming in for for quite some time. 00:34:51
The thing that I would. 00:34:56
Suggest is we still have a lot of business areas and vineyards with a lot of infrastructure that is aging. 00:34:58
And over the past two years, that's one of the reasons why I've been saying. 00:35:04
You can't invest in new business infrastructure, roads if. 00:35:08
The roads you already built. 00:35:12
To put businesses in, they're still empty. 00:35:14
Adding more. 00:35:17
Adding more supply. 00:35:20
To some of the empty roads, especially into the yard, that haven't. 00:35:22
Filled up. 00:35:25
With RDA money. 00:35:26
So I would just counsel that. 00:35:28
The RDA and Citi understand that. 00:35:30
We've made a very large investment in our current. 00:35:34
Business. 00:35:37
Infrastructure. 00:35:38
And everyone is looking towards Utah City and saying invest in more roads, invest in more infrastructure. 00:35:40
When we have so many. 00:35:46
Empty roads and infrastructure. Well, most those empty roads are north of the megaplex. It's not called. What's it called? It's 00:35:47
not called the furnace. What's it called? 00:35:51
True, but forge, Forge. Thank you for forge. Many many of them have filled out, but what if? 00:35:55
But but to give context. 00:36:00
That the forge and the yard. 00:36:01
Some of those roads were built. 00:36:04
You know, 1518 years ago and some of the businesses are just barely coming in. So you have roads that sat there empty or vacant 00:36:06
for 12 years and are now having to be repaired. But they didn't have the. 00:36:12
The business. 00:36:18
Businesses there over that 15 years to create that tax revenue and so I would just counsel the RDA of like. 00:36:20
You don't want to build new infrastructure and start that clock because it starts to crumble if we can. 00:36:26
Be smarter in our RDA investments. I know this doesn't get us out of the problem today, but. 00:36:32
That's one thing that I harp on is slow down. 00:36:37
Let's make sure that our infrastructure that we've already invested in RDA is, is used. Our businesses are using that before we 00:36:40
go. 00:36:43
Building new roads and. 00:36:47
Starting that clock on those as well. 00:36:49
Right, This is, I just want to remind the council that these funds are able to be used for public roads. They're not the, they're 00:36:52
not able to be used for private roads. So roads inside. 00:36:57
Private subdivisions or private developments are. 00:37:02
Are not, cannot be. 00:37:04
Do not qualify for these types of funds. 00:37:06
Of the forge, those are public roads so there's a few. There's only one Rd. in the forage area that might be public I think. But 00:37:08
RDA money can be used right? 00:37:12
The RDA for. 00:37:18
Operations and maintenance, I can answer that question, so I I talked to. 00:37:20
Josh. 00:37:25
Daniels about that briefly. 00:37:26
Where I brought up the concern, I said, you know. 00:37:29
We have all of this increasing cost. 00:37:31
With development. 00:37:34
And if the RDA funds are primarily for cleanup? 00:37:37
Infrastructure. 00:37:41
Economic development. 00:37:42
Why can't we use the RDA funds? 00:37:43
To support. 00:37:46
The things as a prerequisite for. 00:37:47
Economic development. 00:37:50
And he said that he felt like there was a pretty strong. 00:37:52
Argument that could be made there that we should consult legal about what it can and can't be used for in line with that. 00:37:55
And it would be kind of one time money. 00:38:03
Right now I mean. 00:38:05
This cycle is going to happen again, though, because, I mean, you're planning on resurfacing these roads again at a certain point. 00:38:06
So we'll have the same peak in a certain number of years, correct? 00:38:10
So I'm wondering if there's any way we could sort of spread those out a little bit so that peak doesn't happen every so often, but 00:38:15
it's more of a. 00:38:18
All tides rise, but we have a level we can sustain. 00:38:21
Yeah. 00:38:25
We did consult legal counsel. 00:38:27
Karen helped us in a few things and our previous counsel and you'd want Jesse to renew that, but. 00:38:30
RDA funds. 00:38:35
Can be at the discretion of the RDA. 00:38:37
Body so that's why they were. 00:38:39
Able to be used for the City Hall or. 00:38:41
Or even Holdaway Rd. 00:38:44
Outside the RDA was used with RDA money and. 00:38:46
LRS was given a letter with RDA money outside of the jurisdiction right so. 00:38:49
The RDA can choose what they want to do with it. 00:38:53
I'm just hoping we can. 00:38:57
Put things on a maintenance schedule that we can sustain, as opposed to have this peak happen every 15 or 20 years. Whatever the 00:38:59
cycle is, it's wise. 00:39:02
Yeah. 00:39:05
And part of this peak. 00:39:08
Is not just. 00:39:09
Pavement Preservation. 00:39:12
This might look a little deceptive like. 00:39:13
We're going to have that 2028 peak. 00:39:15
So I'm a major portion of that is. 00:39:17
Like like Blvd. 00:39:20
That's, you know, $5,000,000. Can you detail what that project is for us? 00:39:22
Josh Campbell. 00:39:28
This is a project that's the city staff has been planning on for a while to. 00:39:32
Current Lake Blvd. 00:39:36
That runs West of the downtown area. 00:39:39
Near the lake it's pretty narrow. 00:39:41
So they have a plan to widen it to be an acceptable. 00:39:43
Width to carry traffic in. 00:39:47
It can carry traffic in two ways right now, but it's fairly narrow right now. Yeah, it's the one on the lakeside. It's the. 00:39:50
You know, that's the plan. Yeah. So that's kind of like the beachfront. 00:39:57
Promenade Area slash Road and the improvements of that dream. 00:40:03
And. 00:40:08
One of the reasons why. 00:40:09
We ran with like. 00:40:11
Where is the money for any of that, right? 00:40:13
If you look at that, it has Piers and restaurants and. 00:40:16
All this grandiose thing with no. 00:40:20
Budget and I don't think this Council. 00:40:23
Even knows about that. 00:40:25
Plan or the details of it or? 00:40:27
I think that that. 00:40:29
And speaking with the the state of Utah, we need to review that plan and make sure we're all aligned because it's not a lot of 00:40:30
it's not even on our property. 00:40:34
So a lot of the. 00:40:40
You know, and I'm looking at some of these plans. 00:40:42
I think I think the. 00:40:46
Some of these things were based off of the previous Council, as if some of these things were actually going to happen. 00:40:48
And I think it would be wise to have the Council revisit each one of them. 00:40:53
But also look at each one of them because some of some of them are so grandiose. 00:40:58
In size, as I remember two years ago I was like. 00:41:02
Looking at our budget, how can we shrink this down? Look at this budget. 00:41:06
How can we shake this down? Because we don't have. 00:41:09
The business community. 00:41:12
For the eyes of that. 00:41:14
And nor do we have the appetite to. 00:41:16
To be able to do that. 00:41:20
So we've got to push out that Lake Blvd. 00:41:22
Plan. What would it do to that peak? Would it lower quite a bit? It would. I mean, that's a 4x4 million, Yeah, that's 4.8 million. 00:41:25
Back would fill in that hole. We have a trough there too, Yeah, I mean so. 00:41:32
Just to also clarify that on this particular. 00:41:37
Capital project list of Lake Blvd. is to get to a point where it's a serviceable like as a regular 2 lane Rd. 00:41:40
Any plans? 00:41:46
Or potential plan? Excuse me, any potential plans for the? 00:41:48
The waterfront. 00:41:51
In terms of peers, etc etc is not part of that. 00:41:52
Particular Rd. if for any reason this is. 00:41:56
I'm still speaking on hypotheticals. Any for any reason that there is a. 00:41:59
Capital project for the city to turn that into any other type of roads, roadway with the Piers, et cetera, et cetera. 00:42:03
Then the funds that would be. 00:42:10
Utilized. 00:42:12
In order to do those types. 00:42:13
To bad capital project. 00:42:15
Could be used to offset. 00:42:16
The Lake Blvd. cost as of right now and Josh. 00:42:19
Can speak on this and he actually brought. 00:42:23
The analysis and brought up to see if we can. 00:42:25
Help subsidized part of the like. 00:42:27
Blvd. using impact fees because. 00:42:29
Typically is about increasing capacity. 00:42:32
But when you hire experts like Josh right there, you take the fine tooth comb to say. 00:42:35
The row currently is not functioning at. 00:42:40
The level of service. 00:42:43
We just built a brand new road over there, the Vineyard Connector extension. Yes Sir. 00:42:45
That covers that. 00:42:49
To travelers the same distance. 00:42:50
I mean inland, a few 100 yards. 00:42:52
But still you can get. 00:42:54
Yeah, to the Linda Marina, for example. Much faster that way. Yeah, there's always, there's always a. 00:42:55
Apologize for cutting off. There's always possibilities to defer those types of capital projects and it does. The only thing comes 00:43:01
down to is like risk based and analysis. 00:43:05
For example, the road currently is so got. 00:43:10
And Chris Thomas can speak on it. He's got a lot of potholes. It had a lot of natural. 00:43:12
Speed bombs. 00:43:16
As well, there's no curb and gutter. 00:43:17
On that, so the edges of the roads are peeling off. 00:43:19
As well. And then it just comes down to risk based analysis I think. 00:43:23
One of our proposals we were talking about is blowing the speed limit on that road. 00:43:27
To currently I think it's 30 miles an hour. 00:43:31
Yeah, and then we're. 00:43:34
Potentially lowering the speed limit on that road mainland not mainly because of the. 00:43:35
Safety concerns. 00:43:39
On that as well, but again, we can defer that. 00:43:40
Particular road and. 00:43:43
All that is just come down to their risk based analysis. 00:43:45
I recall that Rose was to be rerouted somewhat. 00:43:47
If we ever did put the peers all those other. 00:43:51
General plan stuff in it wouldn't exactly follow the same. 00:43:53
Footprint that it is now, for example, it would be. 00:43:57
Moves a bit right? 00:43:59
So there's a lot of engineering to do with that as well when the time comes to build that road. 00:44:00
No, that's a very good point, Sir. 00:44:05
Yeah. 00:44:07
OK. Thank you. 00:44:09
Let's continue on with that. I think that this what this slide. 00:44:11
Feels like to me is. 00:44:15
This is just going to be an exercise with, with this new council of, you know, budgetary. 00:44:16
Priorities, I guess, more than anything else. Agreed. 00:44:20
Matching the fee or whatever we come up with. 00:44:23
With our with our new budget, can I share a thought really quick? 00:44:25
So when I look at this. 00:44:29
Slide in particular. 00:44:31
Keep in mind we're in 2026 now. 00:44:33
So it's been a few months. My apologies since this was presented. 00:44:35
But you're showing. 00:44:39
Between. 00:44:41
Essentially now the start of 2026 and the 2028 peak. 00:44:42
$15 million in expenses. 00:44:46
And if it's not on the top of your head? 00:44:50
Our city's total budget. 00:44:52
Is roughly $15 million, so over the course of the next. 00:44:55
Three years you're talking about. 00:44:58
3637% of all revenues. 00:45:00
Going to transportation maintenance. 00:45:03
Well, one of the reasons I want to push that out a bit. 00:45:07
Yeah. And as a reminder. 00:45:13
That's why you have this piece of. 00:45:16
Proposed debt there to. 00:45:18
To spread that over because your your point is well taken, you wouldn't be able to fund that with cash. 00:45:20
It just isn't feasible for you to fund that. So that's why there was an assumption of debt. But Mayor, to your point, I think. 00:45:25
You know, looking at this. 00:45:33
Doing an exercise and saying can we prioritize this and shift it around? We already have the infrastructure. 00:45:34
Excel infrastructure built to just. 00:45:40
Let that fall in and reallocate how that fee would shake out. 00:45:42
For sure it's a tenure. 00:45:47
So I'll just take. 00:45:49
A slight turn now from. 00:45:51
This information which is. 00:45:53
This is the. 00:45:56
How we generate the annual revenue requirement? How much money do we need? 00:45:57
Every year and we try to do it in a way that is smooth. So you can see this is that's the effort is not to have. 00:46:01
Large increases in the fee revenue, but to make. 00:46:07
This a very. 00:46:11
Smooth graph. So even though you know Councilman from a cumbers point, you need a 15,000,000. 00:46:13
We're trying to do it in a way that. 00:46:18
You're only needing like 3 million. 00:46:20
Getting up to 5 million and then smoothly increasing that up overtime. 00:46:23
And the way that the previous Council determined to do that was? 00:46:28
Which is going to go back to the original. 00:46:33
The first part of the slide deck here, which is. 00:46:36
The options that were requested. 00:46:38
Which is. 00:46:41
So now let me just talk about how the actual rate was. 00:46:42
Put together to have that smooth revenue and do it in a manageable way. 00:46:45
So the annual revenue requirement for 2026 was one point. 00:46:51
8 million, that was what we're trying to. 00:46:54
Cover with the fee. It will be more than that in the future year because this was only halfway through your fiscal year. 00:46:57
So you only can collect half of it. So next year it would be. 00:47:04
Like a $3.5 million revenue requirement, which again we can. 00:47:07
Change that as we look at those projects. 00:47:11
The way in which the fee was. 00:47:14
Calculated was to look at. 00:47:16
All of these categories we. 00:47:19
These were the categories we selected. 00:47:21
As staff and consultants. 00:47:23
You could have been much more granular. 00:47:26
Could have just had one set fee. 00:47:29
Cities do it. 00:47:31
Many different ways, but this seemed like a logical separation between categories. 00:47:31
Of users, so residential. 00:47:38
Office. 00:47:40
Retail. Commercial. 00:47:41
Light industrial and flex space. 00:47:43
And hails has you know they use. 00:47:45
Manuals that have nationwide statistics to show how much. 00:47:49
Trip generation occurs. 00:47:53
In each of these categories so that we can proportion out who should pay what fee. 00:47:55
When this view was adopted there there is no statutory. 00:48:01
State statutory. 00:48:04
Guidance on how this fee should be calculated. 00:48:06
That is. 00:48:09
Now change. There's been a bill that was. 00:48:10
Those last week was adopted. 00:48:13
There's no reason to assume that the governor would veto that bill, and it is more specific that you have to have a very. 00:48:15
Clear link between. 00:48:22
The fee you charge. 00:48:24
And the impact or the benefit that the end user? 00:48:25
Experiences. 00:48:29
So that there's just a logical, common sense reason why you're charging the fee you're charging. 00:48:30
This was our. 00:48:36
Effort to make that. 00:48:37
That determination. 00:48:39
So. 00:48:41
One ERU or one equivalent residential unit. 00:48:42
Was the basis for our analysis. 00:48:46
And we use chip. 00:48:48
Trip generation by category. 00:48:49
And then weighted that. 00:48:51
By axle load. 00:48:53
So for an illustrative. 00:48:55
Thought on this if you think about your. 00:48:57
Your one car and its impact when you drive on the road is significantly different than if an 18 Wheeler drives that makes that 00:49:00
same trip. 00:49:04
So if you just do trip generation. 00:49:09
You missed the fact that. 00:49:12
That one trip from a large vehicle. 00:49:14
Has a. 00:49:17
A more damaging impact to your Rd. 00:49:18
So this second third column of information shows the multiplier. 00:49:21
Of impact. 00:49:26
For different uses. So for example if the impact for one residential unit is 1. 00:49:28
Than 1000 feet of. 00:49:33
Office space. 00:49:35
Is the equivalent of. 00:49:36
3.8. 00:49:37
Residents. 00:49:38
Residential impacts. 00:49:40
For retail commercial 7.7, for light industrial 9.23, and for flex space 3.94. 00:49:41
So that multiplies the amount of. 00:49:49
How many? 00:49:52
True ER use or equivalent residential units you have on your Rd. roadways. 00:49:52
So you basically have about 20,000. 00:49:57
Equivalent, Uh. 00:49:59
Residential. 00:50:01
Households when you look at. 00:50:02
Transferring those over from the commercial side. 00:50:04
So then the fee was just simply divided by hey, we need 1.8 million, how do we get that from? 00:50:07
19 or 20,000 Eru's. 00:50:13
Then you just simply do the division. 00:50:16
And and and this residential. 00:50:18
Number originally was $9. 00:50:22
And the previous council said, hey, that that's probably more than we think. 00:50:24
Then a user is going to a resident is going to want to pay, so let's reduce that down in the first year and we'll build up to $9 00:50:28
by year 3. 00:50:32
But the the office retail. 00:50:37
The commercial section. 00:50:40
Give them the fee that they. 00:50:42
Ultimately needed. 00:50:43
To make this program work. 00:50:45
So that's a summary of how. 00:50:47
The analysis was undertaken. 00:50:49
To get at these fees. 00:50:51
So any questions or thoughts on that? 00:50:53
What? 00:50:57
Economic analysis was done to look at the 2nd and 3rd order effects of this policy. 00:50:58
That was not in. 00:51:03
Within our scope. 00:51:04
So we didn't. We did not do that. 00:51:05
Weren't asked to do that analysis of what the economic impact would be. 00:51:08
For the record, some of those fees. 00:51:18
Are more than. 00:51:20
Rental. 00:51:21
The business would have for their. 00:51:23
Their business significantly, yes. 00:51:25
I had a business call and say the fee was more than. 00:51:27
Their rent, Monthly rental, yeah. 00:51:31
Could I ask actually in the back? 00:51:33
Maybe cash you might know. 00:51:35
When this was being looked at, do you know if there was actually any? 00:51:38
Comparison between what buildings were zoned as versus what types of businesses were actually inside of them. 00:51:42
I wasn't a part of this analysis at all. I don't know if Naseem. 00:51:50
Can speak to that because it would I would. 00:51:52
I guess one of my concerns. 00:51:55
Was that we had businesses reaching out over the course of the past week. They got their, you know, utility bills. They're 00:51:57
frustrated. 00:52:00
But one of the common themes was you have. 00:52:04
Essentially. 00:52:07
Retail or service businesses operating in warehouses that are zoned as maybe light industrial, and they're getting hit with these 00:52:08
huge fees. 00:52:13
When they're not. 00:52:17
Actually part of the problem. 00:52:18
Yeah. So it was based on their business license. So what was what we what they did is they when they implemented it. 00:52:20
They took their business licenses that we have on file. 00:52:27
And use that as the basis in terms of what category they would be on. 00:52:31
So, and is that business license detailing actually like? 00:52:36
This is a retail business but operating in a warehouse because I know for example, the one that got really popular on on Facebook 00:52:39
this week. 00:52:44
Is a video production studio. 00:52:48
But they operate out of a big warehouse. But obviously a video production studio isn't a light industrial company, but they were 00:52:51
being charged the light industrial rate. 00:52:54
Yeah. So I'm not sure. I can't speak on what their business license actually showed. That would be our finance department and our 00:52:59
business licensing department would have that. 00:53:03
But. 00:53:07
I do recall that some of the businesses had went back to. 00:53:08
Make the corrections under your business license. 00:53:12
In order to make those correct to make that correction. 00:53:14
But also. 00:53:18
There are instances that. 00:53:19
Where there are instances where you know the adjustments we would have to we would make the adjustments like OK, this is what the 00:53:22
use because. 00:53:25
On this table in comparison to the table that we took that engineers typically use. 00:53:28
Is the ITE. 00:53:33
Trip end table. The Institute of Transportation Engineers. 00:53:36
Table. 00:53:40
Which is. 00:53:41
Joshua uses it on a daily basis is like, you know. 00:53:42
Like. 00:53:45
I don't know, like probably like 50-60, seventy pages long. 00:53:47
Details out all the different types of businesses from. 00:53:51
A fast food to a bang to. 00:53:54
A Probably like a grocery stand. 00:53:56
As well. And of course. 00:53:59
We had to make the court. We made the correlation from that to the. 00:54:02
User type here based on. 00:54:06
You know, to business licenses. 00:54:08
Close as possible. 00:54:11
Yeah. Just to speak on that. So we have data for. 00:54:12
A lot of land uses, you know. 00:54:14
Dozens of land uses we could use the. The direction we were given was. Let's try to categorize it by. 00:54:16
5 categories. So one option that we could consider would be. Let's try to break it down more that way we have. 00:54:22
Kind of a wider range. 00:54:28
The challenge there is. 00:54:30
How to tie that back to a business license, I would say, you know. 00:54:32
How many categories do you have for business licenses would be the question. 00:54:35
And do we want to have a category for each one that? 00:54:38
All I want to say is we have data we can provide. 00:54:42
There could just be limitations on how you tie it to your categorization. 00:54:45
Internally. 00:54:48
I have some thoughts. Just kind of a four week we worry about kind of going into a more granular exercise. 00:54:53
I think the main crux of the issue is that. 00:54:59
The fee is just too high for. 00:55:02
A1 year jump. 00:55:04
I mean residential. It sounded like we. 00:55:06
We considered. 00:55:09
The impact of phasing that in. 00:55:10
But we can't just overnight go from a business having. 00:55:12
$200 a month. 00:55:16
Monthly rate to. 00:55:19
You know, over 2000. 00:55:20
It's just, it's not. 00:55:22
Practical for. 00:55:25
Our goal is. 00:55:26
Having more economic development eventually offset the need for these fees. 00:55:28
Like if we look at that chart on the revenues, if you want to scroll back to that slide where it's got the. 00:55:32
The green and the yellow to orange. 00:55:37
In the light green. 00:55:40
Our assumption. 00:55:41
Is that our? 00:55:43
Transportation tax basically stays flat. 00:55:45
For the next. 00:55:47
And years and if we keep the speed in place as is, that will certainly guarantee that that that's the case. 00:55:48
Because businesses won't want to. 00:55:55
They come into Vineyard and. 00:55:57
And Peyton's fees so. 00:55:59
I think I think the main. 00:56:01
The issue we need to start looking at and the only thing that's really going to solve the more urgent. 00:56:03
Need that we have is to. 00:56:08
To reevaluate what projects we are. 00:56:09
Doing this year. 00:56:11
Recognize that. 00:56:14
Pushing off some projects is going to. 00:56:15
Cost more in the long run. 00:56:18
But. 00:56:20
The hope is that we can get. 00:56:21
Either through. 00:56:23
That financing or transportation, whatever the Council wants to determine. 00:56:25
Is that if we can? 00:56:30
Not have all these impacts felt in year 1? 00:56:32
Then that will help us continue to grow our. 00:56:35
Our sales tax base to eventually get the revenues we need, we just can't cover all these expenses through. 00:56:38
Through fees. 00:56:44
I think especially the capital. 00:56:46
Projects. I mean those those. 00:56:49
Kind of redevelopments on projects, some of these we're just going to have to deal with, like Blake Road for example, that's a 00:56:51
great one where we just have to continue to deal with. 00:56:54
The fact that that road is not going to be well maintained. 00:56:58
You know, it's, it's what we've been dealing with in the last. 00:57:02
New Year's and vineyards. 00:57:04
It's messy Rd. It's full of cracks, potholes. 00:57:06
And that's just something we have to be OK with recognizing. 00:57:10
Hey, we're going to try to steer traffic over to Vineyard Connector, use some of our alternate routes. 00:57:13
But I don't think there's a way for us to get out of this without recognizing that some of these roads have to. 00:57:18
Going to be left to begin. No state of major disrepair. 00:57:24
And that's just going to be the. 00:57:27
That's just what we have to do until we get. 00:57:29
The sales tax revenue, we need to fix those roads. 00:57:31
Council, how do you guys feel about that approach it's looking? 00:57:38
And this year's budget kind of identifying, OK, what, what pavement preservations can we put off? 00:57:41
What Rd. projects can we? 00:57:46
Take off this fee. 00:57:48
So that we can ultimately lower the fees significantly for this year. 00:57:50
And. 00:57:54
Have a longer conversation of. 00:57:56
Are looking into next year. 00:57:57
What? What should these fees look like? 00:57:59
And how can we? 00:58:02
How can we introduce them? 00:58:04
I know that the state also provides some limitations on on what we can charge, so there was some urgency on. 00:58:05
On getting something in place. 00:58:11
Before the end of the year I feel like. 00:58:12
But ultimately, we need to. 00:58:15
We need to reevalu. 00:58:17
This and make it a lot more granular. 00:58:19
I think it's necessary that we reassess, like you said, the reality is. 00:58:23
That the fees Vineyard already wasn't a very business friendly place. 00:58:28
Like regardless of what narratives might have been pushed. 00:58:32
Looking at the reality of the fee structure. 00:58:35
Of the rates that it costs to lease here. 00:58:38
At the. 00:58:40
Like common area management fees that developers have been charging. 00:58:41
Tenants. 00:58:46
It has made it very difficult and that's why Vineyard. 00:58:47
Businesses haven't grown as quickly as we would like to see. 00:58:50
And then you put this on top of it and now we're getting a lot of outreach. I mean, I got a lot of outreach. I'm assuming you guys 00:58:53
did too, about people who are ready to leave. 00:58:57
Over this fee. 00:59:01
So when I asked about the economic 2nd and 3rd order effects, what I mean is there's no way in hell we actually get $1.7 million 00:59:02
out of this because all of the businesses are just going to leave. 00:59:06
Nobody wants to pay those rates. 00:59:11
So I think it's. 00:59:13
Expedient. 00:59:15
That we. 00:59:16
Find alternative ways to fund what's necessary. 00:59:18
And we cut what we can cut. 00:59:21
Or, uh. 00:59:23
Delay what we can delay? 00:59:24
As much as possible while we generate the sales tax revenue, I think that's necessary. 00:59:26
I I would agree. 00:59:33
One, one thing I think would be well taken and maybe Evan can speak to this as well and David as well is, is I've taken over, we 00:59:34
have found some significant savings. 00:59:38
And left, right and center. 00:59:42
That we can apply to these things as we kind of go along and. 00:59:44
Evan. Evan. 00:59:49
Do you want to talk to? Are you prepared to speak a little bit on this meeting, kind of what you're seeing in the? 00:59:51
In the finance and. 00:59:56
Side of things. 00:59:58
Special welcome to Evan. 00:59:59
Yeah, yeah. After a trial by fire. Welcome to the city. Yeah. 01:00:01
So the little bit that I can see after after being here a week, right? 01:00:07
Diving into this, my first impression is that. 01:00:12
There are some ways that we can. 01:00:17
Potentially save some money. 01:00:19
I've already talked with with Naseem about. 01:00:21
There's some capital expenditures. It's not huge. 01:00:25
But. 01:00:28
There are some that we can delay. 01:00:30
And need to delay. 01:00:32
So there's some hard decisions that need to be made there potentially to save. 01:00:34
Save some costs, but. 01:00:38
As that. 01:00:40
Tax base continues to grow. That should provide some additional ways to fund we have some. 01:00:41
Reserve from prior years, but that won't. 01:00:48
Last, if we only lean on that. 01:00:51
That's where I'm at, at least for this year. I, I think we can find a way to. 01:00:55
Minimize this impact. 01:01:00
And to your point, delay. 01:01:02
And or revisit it. 01:01:05
Look at some different ways to. 01:01:07
I look at this 41 million in the in the capital expenditures and and. 01:01:09
Reassess that. 01:01:15
I don't know all the detail that went in there yet and haven't had a ton of time to look at that particular component, but that's 01:01:16
what's driving. 01:01:19
Most of this. 01:01:22
Thanks, Evan. 01:01:23
Could I ask Evan, and I don't expect you to have an answer right now, but would you look into? 01:01:25
Just other sources. 01:01:30
Of revenue that maybe the city hasn't been leveraging appropriately. 01:01:32
One of the things that I was curious about was. 01:01:36
Adjustments to impact fees, we've kind of touched on that a little bit. 01:01:38
Based on this presentation. 01:01:42
A lot of the. 01:01:44
And this is the thing that drives me crazy. Sorry. 01:01:46
Vent for a minute. 01:01:48
The biggest contributor of the damage to the roads? 01:01:50
Subsequently, then. 01:01:54
The necessity for the pavement preservation. 01:01:55
Is the developers with their? 01:01:58
Big construction vehicles, the dump trucks, the RDA cleanup, it's all of those kind of things. 01:02:00
Which is frustrating to me because. 01:02:05
Without the ability to. 01:02:08
Use impact fees for pavement preservation. 01:02:10
The biggest driver of that need? 01:02:13
Isn't actually able to be charged for that. 01:02:16
So. 01:02:19
I like what you said about. 01:02:20
Cutting down. 01:02:21
And reevaluating some of these capital expenditures. 01:02:23
Could you look at? 01:02:25
I'm not under the impression that the city gets a significant. 01:02:27
Amount of. 01:02:30
Return on investment. 01:02:33
To like the PTIF account that we have invested through the state treasurer, could you look at, you know, where is that money just 01:02:34
being reinvested? How can we use maybe things that we have as tools immediately to. 01:02:40
Alleviate the pain point that we're in. 01:02:45
Yeah, we can. We can look at that. What I do see is that that. 01:02:49
That interest earned on. 01:02:53
P TIF account was was. 01:02:55
Put back into the budget. And so it's not, it's not sitting there unused. It's it's all. 01:02:57
Allocated but as. 01:03:02
As things are shaking out and I need to. 01:03:03
Spend a little more time to project. 01:03:06
Where things are going to end. 01:03:08
End up at the end of the year, but I foresee that there's. 01:03:09
Some opportunity there to have at least a little bit. 01:03:13
That we can apply there, but it's it's all been. 01:03:17
Accounted for, budgeted, the expense has been budgeted against that. 01:03:19
Not revenue. 01:03:24
I I support. 01:03:26
I I support Councilman. 01:03:28
Suggestion of going reviewing every single. 01:03:30
Expenditure in terms of size. 01:03:34
Timing. 01:03:36
And adjusting it as necessary. 01:03:38
And I think that is a is a stopgap. 01:03:40
I also think this is a cautionary tale. 01:03:43
Of the vineyard was an experiment. 01:03:47
Let's put 60% of our land. 01:03:50
And give a lower rate to a developer. 01:03:52
And see if we can survive. 01:03:55
On that, and we're learning we can. 01:03:58
And let's speed it all up. 01:04:00
And hope that business is common. They didn't. 01:04:02
And so when they didn't. 01:04:05
The answer right now is not to go anti business. 01:04:07
And double their, I mean, they're going to pay a transportation fee that's the same as their rent. 01:04:11
Six businesses called me and said. 01:04:17
As soon as they're. 01:04:19
Agreement is up. They would be moving because why wouldn't they go to the other side of Geneva Rd. into Orem? 01:04:21
If they're paying double the rent right? So we can't chase them off that this isn't the solution. 01:04:27
The solution is. 01:04:33
A stop sign. 01:04:34
It's slow down. 01:04:36
You have to and it's. It's such a basic principle. 01:04:38
And I'm glad I don't have to teach this to my wife because my wife calls me and says. 01:04:42
When I was young. 01:04:46
Stop spending. 01:04:47
And that's what you have to do, and there's not a silver bullet. 01:04:49
Or anything like that. 01:04:53
You have to be patient and you have to wait. 01:04:55
And the businesses come great. 01:04:57
But if they don't, you have to be more patient. 01:05:00
And you have to wait. You can't. 01:05:02
Build it. 01:05:04
And and hope that there's this. 01:05:05
Crazy thing. 01:05:07
And then you got to have to. 01:05:08
Have oversight of your RDA. 01:05:10
And just make sure. 01:05:13
And this is. 01:05:14
Again, a cautionary tale. 01:05:15
That's what I think all of us ran on was. 01:05:17
Is RDA money going to make money building a parking structure? 01:05:20
No. Is it going to make money building a swimming pool? 01:05:24
No. Is it going to make money? 01:05:27
Building the islands. 01:05:29
No, we have to look at at the RDA money as as it originally was for. 01:05:30
It's got to bring in business and tax revenue and that's it. It has to be refocused. 01:05:38
To bring to be so probusiness and. 01:05:43
And and that's what it. 01:05:46
That's what it was designed for, and we lost our way. 01:05:47
I would just say. 01:05:50
100%. 01:05:51
Support Councilman there. 01:05:53
We can't throw this on our business and we've got a. 01:05:54
But long term. 01:05:56
Foundational structure of the RDA has to change. 01:06:00
Evan, can I ask about? 01:06:04
In our last City Council meeting, we talked. 01:06:06
Maybe 2 council meetings ago now, we talked about sales tax Nexus wasn't being applied to the Utah City developers and they 01:06:08
actually brought that forward and said. 01:06:12
That that was something that we could. 01:06:17
Implement. 01:06:19
To generate significant tax revenue for the city. 01:06:20
Is that an Ave. that you've been able to pursue at all or learn about it all? 01:06:23
So this is the first time hearing about that. I was here last council meeting last week. 01:06:28
No worries, but I think you look into that for the. 01:06:33
The next council meeting, then in. 01:06:36
A week or. 01:06:38
I mean, if that's OK, if we just get an update on it, essentially they came forward and they shared Utah State code. 01:06:40
Allows for significant purchases to be. 01:06:46
Taxed at the rate of the municipality or go to the municipality that the sale is being. 01:06:50
Completed or delivered to. 01:06:56
And that that was something that the previous administration and finance director weren't using. 01:06:58
And so if. 01:07:02
That's an Ave. that we can actually pursue. 01:07:03
I think that that's something that would be very expedient to look into getting set up and and make sure that we're taking 01:07:06
advantage of that. 01:07:09
Yeah. Who would have more details on that? 01:07:14
Who do you want to? The State Tax Commission can help us out on that. 01:07:16
We can give them a call. 01:07:21
And OK. 01:07:22
I can help you with that. And Zach, can you connect him maybe with? 01:07:24
Peter Nader. 01:07:28
We can. We can have. 01:07:30
Follow up conversation about that, I can give some more information there. OK is awesome. Yeah, either way. But it's better that 01:07:31
they get paid to us than it is for them to get paid to. 01:07:35
So whoever. 01:07:40
So I'm hearing that we agree on the direction, but we're not going to get here today going line by line through each. 01:07:41
Project. So I think the directive here to put a button on it is. 01:07:47
In the next since this is so imperative to our business community, this is going to really hurt our brand business community. 01:07:52
Mayor we. 01:07:55
Have Curtis Blair here from the oh, does he want to speak? 01:07:59
Well, I mean, just just a comment. Should I head up on? Yeah, come on. 01:08:02
It's been great to observe this. I will say, first of all, I applaud. 01:08:08
Vineyard City for looking at innovative ways. 01:08:12
To resolve a. 01:08:15
A tricky web of. 01:08:18
Of logistics. 01:08:21
And keeping an eye on the future of Vineyard. 01:08:23
When I hear language about being probusiness, I. 01:08:26
Obviously align with that 100%, so first of all. 01:08:29
Congratulations on looking for innovative ways. 01:08:33
There are local governments. 01:08:36
That choose a different path. 01:08:39
And that is? 01:08:41
If you can't fee it or tax it. 01:08:43
That find it? 01:08:45
And that. 01:08:47
Does lead to a slowdown in a friendly business environment and it almost brings it to a crushing halt. 01:08:48
So the fact that you're sensitive to. 01:08:54
How you fund and grow. 01:08:57
A brand where Vineyard is known as a business friendly ecosystem is a super positive thing. I love the idea of the experiment. 01:08:59
The America Dream is an experiment. We've learned a lot from our. 01:09:08
Are lessons of the past and I think this council has as well, and I just applaud the innovative approach, the way that you look at 01:09:12
other ways than just finding, feeing or taxing it. 01:09:17
To fund long term growth and have the business ecosystem in mind when you do that, that that to me is the American dream is is to 01:09:21
participate in the small business experiment. So thank you. 01:09:27
Well, and Curtis, while you're here. 01:09:34
We need your help. 01:09:35
We we have Rdas. 01:09:37
We need to swing for business. 01:09:40
And we? 01:09:42
I mean, I've. 01:09:44
We don't want to harp on the past, but we want to learn from it. 01:09:45
The RDA money was meant to. 01:09:48
To go and get a great. 01:09:50
Big. 01:09:52
Geneva still closed and it was like. 01:09:52
We have to create. 01:09:55
A revenue source and it hasn't. 01:09:56
And so. 01:09:59
Some of your best strengths can be humility. 01:10:01
In saying. 01:10:03
We need your help. We need to find it, Yeah. 01:10:05
And. 01:10:08
We need the state's help. 01:10:09
Because we're small vineyard. 01:10:11
We do not have the, we have not had the expertise to run the RDA in the way in which it. 01:10:14
It should. We've taken a path to. 01:10:21
Quietly pass legislation to get rid of the largest school district and the state hasn't played a role at all. Like, they oversee 01:10:24
it a little bit, but they've allowed us to just do our thing. 01:10:29
And the biggest? 01:10:34
Some big businesses have not come here. And so I think sitting down with you guys of saying what could we attract, what, what 01:10:36
could be there? 01:10:39
And how can we maximize our RDA funds? Because we are a very centrally located place between 800 N and 1600 N It's right smack dab 01:10:43
in the middle of one of the best counties, but for whatever given reason. 01:10:49
It they're not coming and it's not. 01:10:55
Hey, put this transportation tax and double up. What's everything's going here? It's like, right? 01:10:58
No, we need to lower. We have to, we have to have that business community if it's about. 01:11:03
You know, living under our means or doing something like that. So I appreciate you coming in here because well, and you're right 01:11:07
Councilman, hold away because you know, if you lower the barrier of entry of doing business in Vineyard. 01:11:12
That is. 01:11:18
That's social lubricant. 01:11:19
Right, to get businesses to come here and and again, I applaud the innovation and approach that you're taking this because there 01:11:20
are other paths. 01:11:25
But they also don't. 01:11:29
They don't necessarily lead to vibrancy for an economy. And as goes Vineyard. 01:11:30
So we'll go Utah County. 01:11:35
That's why we're here today. 01:11:37
Is to just be a part of the dialogue and understand the issues that are on the table of what you're grappling with. I don't wish 01:11:38
this on my best friend, even though I consider Zach a very good friend. Mayor, this is a tough one to untangle. 01:11:45
But as goes Vineyard, so go Utah County. And as goes Utah County. 01:11:52
So go the state of Utah. 01:11:56
Yeah, OK. 01:11:57
Thank you. Appreciate that Curtis and. 01:11:58
And to your point, I think that when you. 01:12:00
Unfortunately or fortunately, I found myself in very challenging situations. 01:12:05
Like this in the past and the best way to solve them is kind of a. 01:12:09
D All of the above approach. 01:12:13
And, you know, we're going to have to really. 01:12:15
I mean, we're gonna have to really lean. 01:12:18
On the business community to help. 01:12:20
Vibrancy, we've got to, we are going to have to really run a very operationally efficient city. 01:12:23
That we have never. 01:12:30
To a level that hasn't been done in the past. 01:12:32
And. 01:12:35
You know we can't. 01:12:37
This fee I was just. 01:12:40
I was shocked and and frankly I was just very disheartened. 01:12:41
To hear. 01:12:47
So many stores from so many businesses that. 01:12:48
That are that will be leaving our city. 01:12:51
If we do not. 01:12:54
Basically. 01:12:56
Cut this in a. 01:12:57
Massive way. 01:12:59
And we just can't have that. 01:13:00
So we cannot kill the. 01:13:02
We can't shoot the horses pulling the wagon. 01:13:05
You just can't do that so. 01:13:08
Yeah. 01:13:11
So real quick, I think one urgent thing is to kind of identify what we want to do with the current bills. 01:13:13
I mean looking at this chart like. 01:13:19
Clearly the assumptions like we've got to rework these assumptions because even if. 01:13:22
Even if we. 01:13:26
Essentially. 01:13:28
Don't get, I mean this chart basically assumes no new business growth. 01:13:30
And also a portion of the transportation factor portion of the sales tax. 01:13:35
It's going to be population based for. 01:13:39
Or some of the. 01:13:44
I think we have to look at using our sales tax revenue just in general toward some of these operations and that. 01:13:45
We can kind of work into these. 01:13:51
These models on the front end. 01:13:53
Until we. 01:13:55
Get those businesses coming through so. 01:13:56
So, umm. 01:13:58
Rather than. 01:13:59
Like a moratorium on. 01:14:01
Collecting the fees. 01:14:04
What if we just went if you go down to the comparables? 01:14:05
There's AI mean. It looks like most of the comparable cities use a flat rate model. 01:14:08
What if we? 01:14:13
Use the flat rate model that kind of recognized the impact of. 01:14:14
You know, these light industrials are obviously going to have more impact on the roads than. 01:14:18
Residential. 01:14:22
But it's more of a. 01:14:25
Let's start with the flat rate fee that doesn't. 01:14:27
Necessarily scale up with. 01:14:30
Square footage, because that was the one that I saw a lot, where you have larger operations or larger buildings. 01:14:32
But they're not necessarily tied to. 01:14:38
The amount of trip ends that. 01:14:40
Are going to the businesses. 01:14:42
And so maybe we could just start with a flat rate model? 01:14:44
Kind of use fund balance. 01:14:47
Scale back on projects. 01:14:48
In these first year or two. 01:14:50
Maybe a year as we just reevaluate. 01:14:53
The fee in general. 01:14:55
And see how we can. 01:14:57
Kind of correct the assumptions and. 01:14:59
Yeah, the business is the same. 01:15:01
Leeway of. 01:15:04
Let's make sure this is. 01:15:05
Scaled smoothly and not. 01:15:06
This abrupt. 01:15:08
One year impact. 01:15:10
Cody, could I ask a question? 01:15:12
Just the comparables. So if. 01:15:15
Move towards like a pleasant. 01:15:17
View Model Pleasant Grove. 01:15:19
Or I'm looking at the last slide here. 01:15:22
Let's see here. 01:15:27
Did you do pleasant, Grover? 01:15:29
This one, sorry. Yeah, so. 01:15:32
Yeah, so pleasant got you. Or Pleasant Grove. 01:15:34
Can you explain to us? 01:15:36
So Council can understand what that would look like for the, for the taxpayer basically. 01:15:38
If you were to use Pleasant View, for example, yeah, I think that would be the fee. 01:15:43
You'd be instead of paying. 01:15:48
You pay $8. 01:15:49
OK if you're an industrial user. 01:15:51
Instead of. 01:15:53
Instead of 48. 01:15:54
Yeah, yeah. 01:15:56
Instead, Yeah, public view, I think that that's going to be way too small. I think. I think we've done some work on kind of 01:15:58
identifying the difference in the impact. 01:16:02
That pleasant view hasn't done. I mean that. 01:16:06
That's a tiny, tiny little. 01:16:08
Little town. 01:16:10
If we go down to like. 01:16:12
The others where we've got. 01:16:15
Just Scroll down. Yeah, so. 01:16:18
Like Provo for example. Like these are flat rates for Provo. The only one in here that's the per KSF is. 01:16:20
Is Kaysville. 01:16:26
And you can see their rates are. 01:16:27
Really really low per KSF. So like $9. 01:16:30
Compared to the $80.00 for KSF that we've got on light industrial or somewhere around there? 01:16:34
So if we wanted to go that route. 01:16:39
We got the lower it significantly. 01:16:41
Or we could just. 01:16:44
You know, built for a flat rate. 01:16:46
On. 01:16:48
On those based on based on the use. 01:16:50
I mean maybe the per KSF will be the easiest to. 01:16:53
They calculate and we just. 01:16:56
Lower it all down to the residential rate. 01:16:57
Multiplies off the. 01:17:01
Sport footage rather than. 01:17:02
Also adding the. 01:17:04
The use multiplier on there. 01:17:07
Like that's where. 01:17:09
I mean these speeds are. 01:17:11
Going out of control compared to, especially compared to the other fees like the water rates that they're they're dealing with 01:17:12
like. 01:17:15
Like the transportation is. 01:17:18
And it's multiplier of those right now based on our structure. 01:17:19
Just two cents for me. You really have two issues. You've really identified them already as one is how much? 01:17:25
Do we need annually? 01:17:30
And then how do we collect that those are the 2? 01:17:32
Components of the fee. 01:17:34
And so. 01:17:36
How do you lower the amount you need? 01:17:38
Annually. It's what you've been talking about. Let's go back and see. 01:17:40
How we can reduce the capital expenses and stretch them out? 01:17:43
Then the second is. 01:17:46
How do you want to go about collecting that fee? 01:17:47
And doing it in a way that is fair. 01:17:50
You don't have to use. 01:17:52
You don't have to use the methodology we've. 01:17:53
Chosen. 01:17:55
You could do it. 01:17:57
Purely on trip ends and not do it on accelerated. 01:17:58
Load because that's exponential towards those who have. 01:18:01
Larger vehicles going to their. 01:18:04
Facilities. 01:18:05
It just means that you're going to have to. 01:18:06
Shift that somewhere else. 01:18:08
Right, you have to shift that to residential or shift it to. 01:18:10
Just a standard retail commercial. So those are all things that. 01:18:13
Are fairly easily modeled. 01:18:17
You know we have. We have. 01:18:20
The basic model already. 01:18:21
Built. 01:18:23
So we can show you various scenarios of how to do that, but those are the 2 principles. 1 is you've got to lower the amount of 01:18:24
revenue that you. 01:18:27
Need now you can have that. 01:18:31
Subsidized or, or just or push off capital projects, those are really the only two ways you're going to do that. 01:18:33
And then second, do you want to shift? 01:18:38
Two different categories. 01:18:41
Thank you SO. 01:18:43
And we're happy to help with that full process. Thank you. 01:18:43
There is also a. 01:18:46
3rd. 01:18:47
Item that we need to discuss today and that is. 01:18:48
Yet last night. 01:18:51
The second invoices for. 01:18:53
Utility billing or send out. 01:18:55
And so. 01:18:58
How to handle? 01:18:59
Those that have paid. 01:19:01
And. 01:19:03
So what to do about? 01:19:05
The current invoicing. 01:19:07
And bills that have been sent. I I would instruct the mayor to do a press release about this and help them understand. 01:19:08
Were looking into it and that we held an emergency meeting today. 01:19:16
About it. 01:19:20
And that we probably should. 01:19:22
Have a realistic timeline to reassess. The business community isn't terrified. 01:19:24
You know, I got 6. I'm leaving the city. I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty scary, right? And. 01:19:29
And then we hope to have some information within. 01:19:35
I don't know what the time frame is because there's a lot going on, but I would also instruct and instruct staff. 01:19:38
Especially on some of those projects because I know a lot of those projects could be eliminated. 01:19:44
Or just the scope and size could be reduced significantly just looking. 01:19:48
You know, umm. 01:19:52
Just individually on those. 01:19:53
So we can come back together. 01:19:57
I don't know if two weeks is possible, but three weeks? Nope. 01:19:59
No Parkinson's Law work expands to fill the time that you allow. Thank you. I would like to revisit this on Tuesday. 01:20:02
At our City Council meeting. 01:20:09
I would like. 01:20:11
The staff to have. 01:20:12
Proposal A recommendation on what can be delayed, what needs to be funded immediately, where? Where those kind of recommendations 01:20:14
are. 01:20:17
And I would like. 01:20:21
Evan to have some recommendations based on. 01:20:21
Where we can have the fee structure in line with those. 01:20:25
Recommendations. 01:20:28
Or what what we can reduce this as so at least we can vote on something to? 01:20:29
Cut it and say. 01:20:32
In the reality, we could do this every single month. 01:20:34
Right that these bills go out. 01:20:37
And people get hit with another $5000 fee, right? Or, or even, you know, a couple $1000 on the smaller. 01:20:39
Businesses, right? 01:20:45
They are more inclined. 01:20:47
To just leave. 01:20:49
Yeah, to not stick around, to not hang around Vineyard and it's already an issue. 01:20:50
Where we have. 01:20:55
And sorry, separate conversation, but. 01:20:56
Yeah. I would like to give one example where I had a business owner say that they were getting their sewer and water fee for $300. 01:20:59
And their neck last month and then this last month they got a bill for $5000. 01:21:07
So that's. 01:21:13
Shift. 01:21:14
Like how mad you would be. 01:21:15
From 300 to 5000 monthly and go. 01:21:17
There's no way, you know, for water and they drive. 01:21:20
900 yards. We went and measured it. 01:21:24
Crossing Geneva Rd. 01:21:26
To get out on 1600 N and it was like I'm paying $5000 to drive light trucks. 01:21:29
A month so. 01:21:35
Yeah, we gotta. 01:21:36
I agree with that. I would second that. Are you putting a motion? 01:21:38
Well, we can't vote. 01:21:41
My yeah, I'm ready though. I'm ready. Can we issue that guidance and move quickly? 01:21:45
Yeah, umm. 01:21:50
This is the workstation items we can. 01:21:51
Motion. We can make a motion to. 01:21:53
Not a resolution, but a motion. 01:21:56
We can make a motion to tell staff to do things you would give. 01:21:58
Direction. Direction. 01:22:01
We can't make motions in this meeting, but yeah. 01:22:03
One thing. 01:22:07
I know you're here. 01:22:08
We want to try to get. 01:22:12
Materials on Friday. 01:22:13
So if we do have something on for this Tuesday, that's giving. 01:22:15
Staff 2-3 days basically to no Ezra. All we have to notice is what we're talking about. They can work through Monday on this. 01:22:18
They could even work through Tuesday day until the meeting in the evening. 01:22:27
I'll just notice it. Yeah, you just notice it. 01:22:32
Going to be enough to provide that. 01:22:35
Or do we want to just go like a moratorium route where we just. 01:22:36
Pause collecting. 01:22:40
That way we don't have that. 01:22:41
Can I recognize your your urgency? 01:22:43
Stop having this monthly fee that we know is. 01:22:45
Going to be lower. 01:22:48
In the future. 01:22:49
But maybe instead of? 01:22:50
Trying to throw. 01:22:52
A correct fee together. 01:22:54
Sooner. 01:22:56
We just kind of deal with the issue at hand of. 01:22:57
We know we, we know we've got to change this. We know we need to lower this. 01:23:00
Especially for the business community, residents don't seem. 01:23:04
To have the same concerns but. 01:23:07
Again, this is only. 01:23:09
$30,000 of the. 01:23:10
One point. 01:23:12
$8 million need that we have. 01:23:13
That we're getting from. 01:23:15
Our residents so. 01:23:16
Do we want to? 01:23:19
That look at more of the moratorium route or. 01:23:21
Evan, do you feel comfortable? Basically what I'm asking staff, do you feel comfortable? 01:23:23
With that timeline of. 01:23:27
Hey, let's put off everything else we've been working on to focus on this for five days because. 01:23:29
I know they've got other projects they're working on. 01:23:34
Well, let me speak to that as the. 01:23:36
Head of the staff and the whole situation, I think that. 01:23:40
I would feel more comfortable going the moratorium route. 01:23:43
I don't see this being a problem. 01:23:47
We have a systemic. 01:23:50
Fundamental. 01:23:52
Problem. 01:23:54
Here. 01:23:55
This was not created in. 01:23:56
Five days. Nor will we fix this in five days. 01:23:58
And I think that if we go the moratorium route. 01:24:03
It will give certainty and. 01:24:07
I can do the press release, I have it written. 01:24:10
It was a little spicy, so we need to back it off a little bit now that I've kind of slept on it. 01:24:12
It's ready to go, but what I'm saying is that we can. 01:24:18
We can. 01:24:22
Because it is going to come down. 01:24:23
And we don't know by how much, but we've got and I think. 01:24:26
We are going to need to go through the budget process. We are going to need to go through. 01:24:29
Things that. 01:24:34
I've been probably. 01:24:34
This feels like 6 weeks worth of work. 01:24:36
Till we get to a comfortable. 01:24:39
So you give it 3. 01:24:42
Three days, right? Three weeks, Anytime to. 01:24:44
So if we do that, if you just, if we have a little more time, do more torium on it and just pause it and then come back and 01:24:48
reassess it once we have more information. 01:24:52
In front of us because. 01:24:58
I think that that's the. 01:25:03
I think that would be the best. 01:25:05
Course of action right now. 01:25:06
After. 01:25:09
Kind of looking at the situation this totality, because again, this this was not created. 01:25:10
Five days ago. Nor will we fix this in five days. 01:25:15
This is a. This is a. 01:25:18
As I look at it, we've got a. 01:25:20
Fundamental. Umm. 01:25:21
Foundational problem here. 01:25:23
So, Mayor, can I make a motion that we. 01:25:25
I move that we. 01:25:28
Suspend this. 01:25:30
Tax relations fee for the time being until we can come back. 01:25:32
I have some clarifying questions if you don't mind. 01:25:37
Yeah, so as if you were constructed. 01:25:38
Have to prepare that moratorium resolution on Tuesday for Tuesday meeting. 01:25:42
So that way we put the. 01:25:47
Moratorium officially in place. 01:25:48
At the council meeting on Tuesday. 01:25:50
And go from there. 01:25:52
I I would. 01:25:54
And I know you were joking. 01:25:56
I getting the spice from the business community. I hope you don't take the edge off. 01:25:58
Because it needs to be edgy for the business community to know that we are serious like. 01:26:04
This isn't just talk. 01:26:10
We don't want to be. 01:26:13
Derogatory or anything, but I think it I would leave the energy and anger at there. 01:26:15
I think it's needed. 01:26:22
So that people understand that we're serious about being pro business. 01:26:23
I'll have Curtis sign off on it before I send. 01:26:28
I saw, well, even that he was here saying, hey, we're here to defend business, you know? 01:26:35
I still have a clarifying question. 01:26:40
Sorry, I have an opportunity. 01:26:44
We also want to issue refunds to those who have paid into it to. 01:26:46
Start with, I know. 01:26:50
Or at least I've heard that. 01:26:52
Businesses are just being told not to pay it. 01:26:54
I feel like we should be consistent, whatever it is we do. So if we're telling this is not a one week. 01:26:56
Why don't we prepare that moratorium? 01:27:01
To figure out how we can issue those refunds and then. 01:27:03
Put it on hold until I. 01:27:06
I would suggest a resolution about. 01:27:09
Refunds if that's the direction we want to go. 01:27:11
And we must have been. 01:27:13
Also need a fund balance transfer to fund. 01:27:15
We need to continue to fund roads, I think. 01:27:18
While we're looking at this and. 01:27:21
I feel like we've got enough fund balance to be able to do that in the interim. 01:27:23
Obviously, that's going to be at a cost. 01:27:27
I mean, if this is the route we want to go, I think it's important for the business community to make sure we do that. 01:27:29
OK, and this is the same I just have. 01:27:35
Actually, I had to clarify questions and Councilmember Ezra. 01:27:39
And there after that one. 01:27:44
My one question about making sure that the operations are still being funded. 01:27:46
So I appreciate that. Thank you very much. The last the other question, I just wanted to. 01:27:50
Get clarification on is the residential rate. 01:27:54
And I don't believe our Cody was able to speak on the residential rate tour when we did the initial calculation, the true value. 01:27:57
It was about $9. 01:28:05
Plus change. 01:28:07
Per, uh, use of pretty much per household. 01:28:08
And it was. 01:28:11
Direction was given to reduce that down to below 5. 01:28:13
$5. 01:28:15
So just want to. 01:28:17
Make sure the Council is aware that obviously, at the end of the day, we're. 01:28:18
Balancing the book. So when you reduce one rate, the other rates have to increase because of that. 01:28:22
I want to ask if Council's direction would be able to. 01:28:26
One, if we're able to. 01:28:29
Continue collecting on the residential rate as this currently stands at 475 per ERU. 01:28:32
And into if when we're doing our. 01:28:37
When we're recessing our calculations, if we're able to. 01:28:40
Allow the residential rate to be readjusted. 01:28:44
To possibly true cost. 01:28:46
Our legal counsel. 01:28:51
Riddle, uh. 01:28:53
In in council with me told me that we need to treat every account the same, so if we issue a moratorium, all of them are getting 01:28:56
moratoriumed. 01:28:59
That would be. 01:29:03
On residential and dinner. 01:29:04
Correct. 01:29:06
You. When I talked to him about it this week, he expressed that you can't treat the accounts differently. 01:29:07
Or you shouldn't as a best practice. 01:29:14
In that case, what if we just went to a flat rate of? 01:29:17
One the flat rates illustrated in option one. 01:29:21
That way we just keep the flat rate of. 01:29:27
475 for residents instead of doing it per thousand square foot. 01:29:30
And even $36 for office. 01:29:33
70 for retail, 84 for light industrial. 01:29:36
And that way we don't necessarily have to. 01:29:39
Moratorium the residents when we know that residential fee is going to be. 01:29:43
A component I would just take it away to. 01:29:46
Reintroduce it when it's not even. 01:29:48
The issue that we're trying to solve here. 01:29:50
I think we could work with. 01:29:56
Evans and come up with something like that. I don't think we want to agree here in the meeting on what exactly it is. 01:29:58
But just I agree with something like that of like let's look at what is realistic to make sure we're. 01:30:04
Collecting something? 01:30:10
And then come back on Tuesday and vote. 01:30:13
For this is just a holdover for the. 01:30:14
9 weeks that the mayor is needing to. 01:30:18
Put together the budget and finalize it and I think we could stay in the meeting that this is a stopgap measure. 01:30:20
Until that. 01:30:27
And then just one more thing and. 01:30:31
Get that? 01:30:35
Yeah, right there. 01:30:36
Yeah, just so crazy. We went all the way back full circle to what I was saying. 01:30:37
Yeah, just want to on Tuesday. 01:30:42
The finance director will be providing a budget adjustment as well. 01:30:46
For the. 01:30:49
To ensure that the Transportation Fund is continuing to be funded. 01:30:51
From another source I think I heard maybe potentially sales tax revenue. 01:30:55
On that is there any? 01:31:00
Particular type of posting that we have to do. 01:31:01
To ensure that that happens on Tuesday, kind of hand in hand with. 01:31:03
Any resolution in terms of? 01:31:08
Yeah. 01:31:09
Thank you, Nasimi. We can we can just get working on that. So thank you. 01:31:12
Any questions from staff regarding? 01:31:17
We we, one thumbs up or two thumbs up, just we'll take one thumbs up, one thumbs up. That's sufficient. 01:31:21
All righty guys. 01:31:29
OK. 01:31:30
Anything else? Thank you. 01:31:31
Thanks, Andra. 01:31:34
OK, I think that we are. 01:31:38
That concludes the transportation to. 01:31:41
Utility discussion. We're going to now enter the. 01:31:43
Roughly 30 minute recess. 01:31:46
Or should we just keep going well? 01:31:49
Are the Bluffs here and ready to present? 01:31:51
I'm sorry, is the staff ready to? 01:31:54
Talk about the Bluffs. 01:31:56
Or should we, let's just take a recess, let's take. I have to leave at 12:30. So if we could. 01:31:57
Do the 400 S. 01:32:02
Or any of the others? 01:32:04
Again, I'm a legal counsel, but I just want to make sure that I think we posted the recess that this would this would continue at 01:32:07
12:00. 01:32:11
People are planning on being here to start talking about that at 12, so. 01:32:15
Is there anything on the agenda we could do? 01:32:19
I don't think so. Notice that way. Yeah, there was notice this way and then we. 01:32:22
OK. All right. We'll enter into a recess. Thank you. 01:32:26
Until 12:00. 01:32:29
Oh, really? 01:32:50
I personally just like. 01:33:02
You're coming out of recess. 01:34:20
We've got first is 4.1 the Bluffs. 01:34:23
Project alignment. 01:34:26
Do I need to hit the gavel to pulse out resets? That's a great question. 01:34:28
Recess. 01:34:32
Adjourned. 01:34:33
All right, so. 01:34:36
Bluffs project. 01:34:38
Alignment. Umm. 01:34:39
I will turn the time over to staff to walk us through this. 01:34:42
Thank you, Kash Hansi, Senior Planner. I'll be giving a brief update on this project for the Council. 01:34:46
I do want to credit Madison Reduce our planning tech. She's done a lot of the work on this and helping coordinate. 01:34:51
The the project and. 01:34:57
Get us to this point. 01:34:58
So once this is ready I can. 01:35:00
Share my screen. 01:35:07
I'm not going to go too into the details on. 01:35:11
Kind of where the project has been, just kind of our next steps forward. 01:35:13
With some recent updates, there we go. 01:35:19
Sure takes a minute. 01:35:22
Just as a brief refresher, right here shows you the project background. 01:35:25
The project the the scope of the the work here. 01:35:29
It kind of is between the two trails. 01:35:31
But to the West of Lakefront neighborhood. 01:35:34
We've had some issues with the the landscaping, irrigation, slope and all that. 01:35:37
That that we're hoping to tackle. 01:35:41
So the current status of this is. 01:35:45
Could you turn the volume down? I'm getting it. 01:35:47
Some feedback here that generally there you go. 01:35:50
Good SO. 01:35:53
Last year staff was working on this project. We issued an RFSQ request for statement of qualifications. We received 6 bids or 01:35:54
submissions, not bids. They don't have any prices associated with them yet. 01:36:00
But we've essentially just asked for firms to provide us if they can. 01:36:05
Essentially help us design this this area the Bluffs. It would include, as mentioned here, sheeting benches, recreational 01:36:11
entertainment areas, Utah lake access points, dog wash stations, dog water fountains. 01:36:16
Bike racks. Trash cans. 01:36:22
And some open field space. 01:36:25
Grading and drainage and landscaping and irrigation as well. 01:36:28
We've essentially we've paused that process. I think we got those bids probably two or three weeks ago. We've kind of told them. 01:36:31
That we're waiting to have some direction. 01:36:36
Council on how to move forward with this. 01:36:38
But that's where we're at in terms of the bidding process. Essentially, this would give us a site plan document that we could then 01:36:41
take and get constructed. 01:36:45
So with that we went and met with FFSL. They recently have had some turnover with their project manager and so there's been some 01:36:51
lapse of coordination there. But we recently we met their new project manager for this area. 01:36:56
We met with them on February 25th. 01:37:03
Explained a rough idea of what we're hoping to accomplish here to get their buy in and support. They essentially said in order for 01:37:05
them to even think of reviewing this, they do have to have a site plan. So essentially that document that there are FSQ would 01:37:11
would provide for us to give us any feedback. But they essentially said this area does need to remain open and natural. We can't 01:37:16
prevent any kind of access to the lake. 01:37:22
Because it is state land. 01:37:28
But like I said, they they want any improvement. 01:37:30
To just be more natural than not. 01:37:32
So with that, we are just looking for some. 01:37:38
Feedback from the Council once we. 01:37:42
If we do get the direction to go ahead with our FSQ and choose a consultant firm. 01:37:44
Most likely bring it back to the City Council to vote on approval of that contract. 01:37:48
And then? 01:37:53
With that contract, we'd be able to get the site plan, we'd submit it to FFSL for review, it would take them a few months for for 01:37:54
approval on that and then we could move forward with the the actual construction of this area. 01:38:00
So with that. 01:38:09
I'm open to questions or feedback. 01:38:10
Can I ask? 01:38:13
Since you've got bids and you kind of shared what the. 01:38:14
Like additional amenities and things would be in line with that. What's the actual proposal for the landscaping of that? Since it 01:38:18
needs to be more natural, I would assume it's not just going and putting turf over everything, correct? Yeah, It would be using 01:38:23
more native plants. It'd be removing. I don't know if you've seen the existing conditions of that area. You live right by it, 01:38:27
right? 01:38:32
It's pretty horrendous. And so a lot of the the cost of this is actually going to be doing the grading and drainage and then very 01:38:36
minimal landscaping. They they have mentioned that that some grass or turf is loud but very minimal. We were hoping to have some 01:38:42
sort of like open field space that that kids could go play some soccer at or something like that. 01:38:48
But they are even hesitant towards grass and turf. 01:38:54
Yeah. I guess my question is really stemmed along if we're prioritizing the grading right, it just. 01:38:56
Because all of the vegetation in there right now is dead anyways, right? And I don't think it's just dead for. 01:39:02
You know, it's been winter and dry. I mean, it's just dead. Dead. Absolutely so. 01:39:07
There would need to be some kind of vegetation. 01:39:11
Natural plants put in there just to prevent runoff in the mudslide down onto the trail, correct? Correct. 01:39:13
So. 01:39:19
I would love to recommend that the. 01:39:22
Forestry, fire and state lands themselves have a seating program. 01:39:24
That have a. 01:39:28
They actually. 01:39:30
Harvest the seeds from the lake in different sections. 01:39:31
And allow them to. 01:39:34
Do a reseating of it. 01:39:35
It's all it's a very good natural grass they have. 01:39:37
Good root systems and it's actually the. 01:39:42
The vegetation that we ripped out of that. 01:39:45
It's very cheap, you can spread it out. 01:39:48
And. 01:39:51
That those types of grasses are good for. 01:39:51
Not creating a fire hazard. 01:39:55
But stopping erosion. And it actually would. 01:39:57
Blend well with. 01:40:01
With the existing landscape. 01:40:02
Of the hill, like the similar grasses that are there. 01:40:04
They usually will mix in. 01:40:08
Different sage brushes and different things that come in and it just. 01:40:10
Makes it. 01:40:15
Within a three-year process, it turns it back into a. 01:40:16
A very natural. 01:40:20
I mean, because it's so minimal, right? So are you asking for us to work with them on them doing the project themselves or No, I 01:40:23
would still work with them, but I would, I would consult with them absolutely like. 01:40:28
You know what grows here naturally Is is the best thing that actually comes back now I know the first year it'll. 01:40:34
It'll come up with kosher and other weeds, so that's not. 01:40:40
Setting but they. 01:40:44
Yeah, that's what I would recommend. Yeah. And that is our requirement with whatever consultant we work with is that they. 01:40:47
Have to have this working relationship with FSL to make sure. 01:40:53
What they are proposing meets their standards, so something like the seed mix would be a great point that we could include in into 01:40:56
our requirements as we move forward. 01:40:59
You mentioned with already having bids, is there money that's already budgeted for this? Yeah. So very Long story short. 01:41:03
Edge Homes was supposed to landscape this they. 01:41:10
Attempted to do so and it'll. 01:41:13
Bad job. There's a settlement with the city and in turn, the city withheld some reimbursement funds that they were going to pay to 01:41:15
edge homes, and that's the money allocated to fix the problem here. 01:41:21
I believe it's around $900,000. 01:41:26
And that's for everything. Grading, drainage. 01:41:30
Landscape and those irrigation in line with that. So, so because this is an RFP, we do not have any money associated with it. It's 01:41:32
just statement of qualification. So essentially saying here are similar projects we've worked on. 01:41:37
Here's why we're qualified. 01:41:43
Once we've. 01:41:45
Narrowed it down, we can then start negotiations on pricing. OK, thank you. 01:41:45
Can you talk about the other amenities you have? So I know. 01:41:50
There's talk about have like a couple of bar park benches along the trail as well. And then you said a bike. Yeah, yeah, very 01:41:53
minimal kind of what we do have along the trail or what was recently proved. So some bike repair stations potentially. 01:41:59
Potentially we could look at doing like a picnic table. There already is kind of a covered bench area there. 01:42:06
Really it's it's whatever the the council in the community wants and that's we've we've had a. 01:42:13
Open house at the lakefront neighborhood. 01:42:17
And I apologize, Madison's not here, but she is more aware of what the the residents there said that they would like to see in the 01:42:20
area. We've potentially looked at doing some sort of public restroom there as there's not a restroom on the trail there. And we've 01:42:24
also looked at at doing this volleyball court that we got a grant for in the area. 01:42:29
But it all is very minimal amenities. 01:42:34
So I think that. 01:42:42
Any direction? 01:42:44
From council to staff on this project, it sounds like so, just to a point of clarification. 01:42:45
There was a. 01:42:51
OK, so. 01:42:54
This is something also to bring up. 01:42:55
So we get we have a grant. 01:42:57
That we need to spend. 01:42:59
And it's for a volleyball court. It's like $22,000 or something. And I think we need another. 01:43:01
For this amenity to. 01:43:08
Call it off. 01:43:10
I think we need about. 01:43:13
75,000 I was told. 01:43:14
2500 something maybe I'm wrong? 01:43:17
I don't think it's 75,000. Yeah, I was get some railroad ties. Yeah, I was about to say this is a pretty expensive put some sand 01:43:21
down volleyball court. 01:43:25
But there's a project, we've got $22,000 for this volleyball court. It probably includes some other amenities to go with it. 01:43:29
But. 01:43:36
Is that grant from Horseshoe fire and state lands or from the county tours from the county, County tourism? 01:43:37
Oh, utility authority, so they're so it is from Utah League. Yeah, yeah. 01:43:45
Yes, I think I I called and found out about that Mayor, now that you sit on that, it's very flexible of like it doesn't have to be 01:43:49
volleyball. It can be adjusted to like what what they're wanting. 01:43:54
Just more generally beautification. 01:44:00
So we could adjust. 01:44:02
Whatever the needs are and just have the mayor take it back to the executive director and say, could we adjust this just a little 01:44:03
bit? Yeah, because the language is very flexible. 01:44:08
I talked to him about it. 01:44:12
Is there a time limit on the grant? 01:44:14
Yeah, I think there is. 01:44:15
I think it's actually, it's actually going to May, I think may this year, the volleyball grant. 01:44:17
We have to start. 01:44:23
So the question at hand is, is do we want to continue, Do we instruct staff to continue forward and basically? 01:44:25
Executing the, the and. 01:44:32
Getting this designed out so we can go to the market and get bids on it. 01:44:34
Cash. So it sounds like that part of the edge development. 01:44:38
Negotiation. I'll guess I'll just call it that. 01:44:43
Settlement. Whatever. 01:44:46
They we held out. 01:44:47
Roughly 900 correct Who? 01:44:49
To do that portion right there. OK, Yep, Yep. And so we'd use a portion of that 900 for the design and then we'd use the rest of 01:44:51
it for the actual construction of it. All right. Do we have an, do you have an estimated square foot of what, how many square feet 01:44:56
is in that red area, do you know? 01:45:01
About four acres is about four acres. 01:45:07
I guess my recommendation would be that. 01:45:11
You know the staff. 01:45:13
Proceeds. 01:45:14
We get. 01:45:16
You know, formal. 01:45:17
Bids. It sounds like that's kind of the next step. 01:45:17
I would recommend that we try and keep those in line with our total budget here. 01:45:20
OK. And. 01:45:24
Not seek to allocate new new funds to this. 01:45:26
Outside of. 01:45:29
The amount we have from the correct, we have the $900,000 from the settlement roughly and then maybe some grant money. But I mean 01:45:29
whatever we do needs to be in line with. 01:45:34
The money that's already. 01:45:38
Set aside and allocated for the project. 01:45:40
I would also make a motion since the. 01:45:44
Person living closest is. 01:45:46
Councilman Wood to. 01:45:47
Before the bid comes out to just. 01:45:49
Have him. 01:45:51
Review. 01:45:52
What that is? 01:45:53
And work with the. 01:45:55
The two communities, the. 01:45:56
The lakefront and the others. 01:45:59
And just right before it goes to bid just. And Brian's been great. He sent me the. 01:46:00
Volleyball plan, yeah, I think when I first got in and. 01:46:05
Send that to Fred and others in the community and just before it goes to commit you, hey, I signed, we sign off. You sign off on 01:46:08
that. 01:46:10
To go to bed. 01:46:14
Just have someone point that. 01:46:16
OK. Is that OK if Jay? 01:46:20
We don't need to vote, but just. 01:46:22
So, so yeah, yeah, going forward if we if we do move forward staff, we would review these consultants. 01:46:23
Just based off their qualifications and then we'd bring it, we'd we'd start the negotiation process for a price. 01:46:29
And then we'd take that to the City Council for approval on that price. And then from there we'd get the documents and move 01:46:35
forward with approval of the site plan through Planning Commission. 01:46:39
And then it would. 01:46:43
You know, we could start construction on it. 01:46:44
And just my, my preference. And you know, Jacob, you live over there too. Sure. 01:46:46
I think that. 01:46:52
The kind of the the priority for me. 01:46:54
Would be the grading. 01:46:56
The vegetation, the park benches type thing, absolutely. And we do in that $900,000, we do have requirements that we have to fix 01:46:58
those issues. It's kind of the surplus. Beyond that, if if we can fix those issues and we have leftover money, then yeah, let's 01:47:04
talk about bike repair stations and benches and bathrooms or whatever, all of that other stuff that well, maybe not all of it. 01:47:10
But the majority of the bathroom? 01:47:16
The wash station, the water fountains, all that stuff is just. 01:47:19
Just to the east of that in the park there, yeah, we have some here, close still. 01:47:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't foresee. 01:47:27
A dire need for an additional bathroom, I think, I think 500 meters to the South. The idea about the bathroom was that if we did 01:47:30
that volleyball court here right behind that pool, we don't necessarily want the public trying to use the lakefront. 01:47:36
Clubhouse HOA is absolutely bathroom. 01:47:42
When they're attending a public park. So but once again, we don't know if we'd even have budget for that. So that's why we just 01:47:45
need to. 01:47:48
Essentially, move forward with the design work and then we can get a good idea of what we can accomplish with that funding, 01:47:51
gradient care and as long as Jacob Woods what what is in and what is out. 01:47:55
Just look it over before it goes out to bid Jacob and say yeah, that's good enough to bid. 01:48:00
Yeah. And if you want, we a council member could be a part of the the grading criteria for these consultants. We're open to 01:48:04
whatever. 01:48:08
I think right now we have. 01:48:11
People in our engineering team and our parks and rec team. 01:48:13
Doing that so. 01:48:17
Up to the Council. 01:48:18
Thank you. 01:48:19
OK, awesome. 01:48:20
Onward and upward. 01:48:22
Yep, any other further? 01:48:24
Directions you need from us? 01:48:26
We get on that. 01:48:27
OK, all righty, let's. 01:48:29
Do you need to give him permission to? 01:48:31
Start the grant or. 01:48:33
The grant. 01:48:35
Well, the grants going to come after. 01:48:36
They have to have the plan in place first because right now we're bidding off of. 01:48:38
It's not a square footage. 01:48:43
Just to clarify for the grant for the sand volleyball court that they received from Utah Lake Authority. 01:48:46
There's. 01:48:54
That that project was kind of anticipated to become a separate project from Bluffs itself, so wouldn't be part of the design. 01:48:55
In construction with. 01:49:02
Consider that volleyball court as part of as part of it. 01:49:03
But not to be part of it. So if council wants staff to. 01:49:06
Engaged with Utah like authority to repurpose that money. We would be doing that as a separate item. 01:49:12
OK, my suggestion is that we do that because. 01:49:17
The grants only like. 01:49:21
$22,000 and we don't have any other funds to put towards it. So and it's either use it or lose it. 01:49:23
Like there's we, we don't have the extra money. 01:49:31
To make it. 01:49:34
A reality unless we. 01:49:35
Pair it with something. 01:49:37
OK. 01:49:39
All right, anything else on this one? It's a good thing you're friends with them. 01:49:45
Yeah, Luke's a good guy. Yeah, they're awesome. So. 01:49:49
OK, let's jump to the next item on the agenda. 01:49:54
I've lost my agenda here. Next, Jacob, you've got the Wakefields hold away fields. All righty, let's jump into holdaway fields. 01:49:57
Is Cadence here to chat about that? 01:50:06
Doesn't look like he's here. 01:50:08
Do you want to go through that? Let's have a presentation on. 01:50:11
OK. Yes, Anthony, Sir. Thank you. 01:50:16
I'm going to try to keep this pretty short because we've. 01:50:19
Presented to you a couple of times. 01:50:23
But if you want, I can still go through everything. 01:50:25
While this loads. 01:50:28
Just give me a second. 01:50:31
So by the way, my name is Anthony Fletcher. I am a long range planner here in the city. 01:50:32
And I will be going through this hold away. 01:50:38
Fields development right now. 01:50:43
That it's ready. 01:50:46
OK, good. So. 01:50:52
Just to give you a development summary, we have this development agreement that was signed, approved and signed in July of 2022. 01:50:54
A lot went into. 01:51:02
Getting it to the point where it is going to be signed, a lot of negotiations. They had the neighborhood plan created. 01:51:04
Zoning District and Map was created in the Special Purpose Zoning District. 01:51:10
Part of our code general plan was amended. 01:51:15
To be able to make this happen, the parties involved were two developers that. 01:51:17
Came together to make this happen. 01:51:22
Cadence Homes and Goodborough. 01:51:24
Cadence Homes will be focusing more on the single family. 01:51:27
Which is about. 01:51:31
168 units. 01:51:32
And Goodborough is more of the senior housing, which is? 01:51:34
Just about 127. 01:51:38
Currently we have. 01:51:41
Just under 10. 01:51:42
10 are under construction and we have 31 completed. 01:51:44
So just to give you a location context. 01:51:50
This is where that is location. I'm sure everyone is familiar with that. 01:51:52
I'm going to move forward. We in total there's 295 units. 01:51:57
In this development. 01:52:02
The developer is obligated to. 01:52:05
Produce a couple of things out of. 01:52:08
Development agreement. 01:52:09
They need to provide 3 parks. 01:52:11
Senior club housing. 01:52:13
Senior Club. 01:52:15
House for the senior. Senior housing part of the development. 01:52:16
And some amenities as well. 01:52:22
As well as better connect in roads and trail networks that exist within the city already to make it a more holistic system. 01:52:23
The parks. 01:52:31
As I mentioned earlier, are tied to various phases. 01:52:32
Of this development. 01:52:36
West Park, which is. 01:52:38
Currently going to be the first that will be. 01:52:39
Built if we follow whatever we already have approved. 01:52:43
And the. 01:52:46
Other two would. 01:52:47
Happen. 01:52:49
Prior to receiving. 01:52:49
You know certificate of occupancy for phase seven of the whole development. 01:52:51
So. 01:52:57
This is just an. 01:52:58
You know, graphic over the various parks that have been approved. 01:52:59
The senior housing as well is intended to be plotted with phase four of the currently approved phase and plan. 01:53:04
Of the development. 01:53:11
And here are a few roads and, you know, trail networks that we expect that the development better connects with Main St. 01:53:14
400 S both east and West terminus Sleepy Ridge connection. 01:53:22
Stillwater, 300 W and other trails that are already exist in the city. 01:53:26
So the requested amendment by the. 01:53:33
Developer is essentially to have. 01:53:35
A revision of the face and plan. 01:53:38
Based on a study of the market, they came out to let us know that. 01:53:40
The current approved. 01:53:45
Phase and plan would not work well. 01:53:48
For them if they need to follow it. 01:53:51
Exactly due to market needs and. 01:53:53
How sales are going with the entire development? 01:53:56
And that would in turn. 01:53:59
You know, make them. 01:54:01
Change a couple of. 01:54:02
Faces and I've. 01:54:04
I shared earlier. 01:54:06
The evolution of face plan. 01:54:07
The first one is going to be the very original 1. 01:54:09
The second one has been. 01:54:12
Administratively approved and the third one is what they are trying to get. 01:54:14
Approved right now through their proposal. 01:54:19
So this is going to shift a lot more lots. 01:54:21
Around and also. 01:54:25
Have various faces change in their numbers? 01:54:27
So and there's also going to affect that it. 01:54:30
The dedication of. 01:54:33
Amenities like the parks. 01:54:36
As they have been approved for right now. 01:54:38
Can I ask a clarifying question there? 01:54:42
You said that it would change. 01:54:44
I think you were just talking about the phasing. 01:54:46
It does not actually change. I know it's not changing the number of lots, but it's not changing any of the layout of the lots or 01:54:48
anything like that either. 01:54:51
Nope, it's not. 01:54:54
Just add to that it just. 01:54:58
Further combined, certain lots that have. 01:54:59
That are going to be built faster in their plan. 01:55:03
OK, so. 01:55:06
So. 01:55:09
We've had extensive meetings. 01:55:10
Over this ask. 01:55:12
We've reviewed our request. 01:55:14
We've even met with our city attorney. 01:55:16
And he? 01:55:19
We've had discussions that. 01:55:20
We want to suggest a staff that the impact fees. 01:55:22
Be changed. 01:55:27
From what it is right now, so just to back history. 01:55:29
The impact fees in the old. 01:55:32
Development agreement or what we have now approved. 01:55:35
Locked in the cost or? 01:55:37
Whatever they had to pay for impact fees. 01:55:40
I said 2022. 01:55:42
Now we all know a lot has changed in the city. 01:55:44
That has made this. 01:55:47
A concern for staff to. 01:55:50
Consider or have. 01:55:51
Council consider renegotiating. 01:55:53
To have this impact fee be calculated. 01:55:56
At the point of. 01:55:58
Building permits. 01:56:00
I believe a lot of things went into that discussion before. 01:56:01
It was agreed to be locked in. 01:56:05
However. 01:56:07
A lot of us were not. 01:56:09
There when this was a. 01:56:11
Approved, Uh. 01:56:12
I believe Nassim is the only staff that was available. 01:56:13
At the time. 01:56:15
So that is one of the concerns that we have. 01:56:17
As a push back to whatever amendment they're trying to do, we have no concerns with everything else to face implant changing. 01:56:20
Parks and. 01:56:27
Trying to change when the parks have been being delivered and dedicated. 01:56:28
But we are concerned about. 01:56:32
Impact fees, There's been a lot of changes since it was signed in 2022. 01:56:34
And Mayor, do you want to ask a question? I was going to ask if you could admit I. 01:56:39
I didn't want to cut you off because no, that's all right to this, but I just wanted if you could under. 01:56:43
Help us understand what the baseline impact fees were when this was signed versus what they are today. What is the, what's the gap 01:56:47
there? What's the delta? 01:56:51
I would. OK, yeah, we can do that. I probably turn it over to Naseem because they know that more. 01:56:55
Thank you. I don't have the exact numbers in terms of the baseline versus the now, but on the back East the way it was. 01:57:00
And they're writing on. It was intended for the. 01:57:07
Developer to be paying the impact fees based on the time of the. 01:57:11
Excuse me of the. 01:57:15
Signed development agreement, not that not to hold it in place. 01:57:17
For in. 01:57:22
Pituity. 01:57:24
So as an example, the changes that's happened on the impacts is. 01:57:26
On the impact fees would be that since that since we've. 01:57:31
Assigned the development agreement to present day. We do have a parks impact fee. 01:57:35
That would that's charged. 01:57:39
Per per house. 01:57:41
That's being built with that money going towards specifically towards the parks. 01:57:43
Also. 01:57:47
We have a pass through fee. 01:57:49
From central UT Water. 01:57:51
So since. 01:57:53
Excuse me, Since this development has taken to place, we've disconnected. 01:57:55
Our water system. Our delivery system. 01:57:59
Supply system from Arm City to central youth central Utah Water. 01:58:04
Who? Hardly. 01:58:08
And with that being said. 01:58:09
Every time there's a. 01:58:11
A new build. 01:58:13
There is a what they call a pass through or buy that or a buy down, a takedown, excuse me, takedown fee. 01:58:15
That's that's that. 01:58:20
Veneer City collects in order to. 01:58:23
You know pay towards purchasing an additional acre feet of water from Central UT Water. 01:58:26
As well, the other changes would be the sewer. 01:58:31
Impact fees as well as the. 01:58:34
Transportation impact these those fees are adjusted on a regular basis. When I say regular basis typically. 01:58:38
Usually no more than every five years, but typically we. 01:58:45
We adjust them are usually every. 01:58:49
Revisit them every three years, but at least adjust them on an annual basis to include the inflation costs, et cetera, things that 01:58:53
you know really can't be projected. 01:58:57
Projected We we project inflationary costs as much as possible, but for as an example, during Covad. 01:59:01
We had April like excuse me, there was usually there was an 8% inflation. 01:59:07
Costs and other. 01:59:11
Costco gocaster layup. So we do try to keep track of the on track of that. 01:59:12
Those are those are types, those are the types of costs that. 01:59:17
Did we just get a spitballed estimate? 01:59:20
Out of that, like it was it $1300 before and now it's $3000 because you mentioned multiple fee additions and then you also add the 01:59:23
inflation on top of that, yeah. 01:59:28
Can you, I mean just an estimate that puts us in the ballpark. I think just for the parks impact free by itself. It's I believe 01:59:33
each house is about. 01:59:37
25 thousand, $2500 to $3000. 01:59:42
For a parks and pack fee. 01:59:45
OK. And then for the Central Utah water and comparison to Orem City where I think it's about another. 01:59:46
$1500 per house. 01:59:52
If I'm not mistaken it may be lost. I think it was like $1200 per house. 01:59:54
From central UT water to. 01:59:58
To Orem City. 02:00:01
And that's the pass through fee that. 02:00:02
Or the takedown fee for Central Utah Water. 02:00:05
On that, the inflationary costs are usually very minimal. We don't unless there's a big spike. 02:00:07
Like 8% or 10%? 02:00:14
That may that may be seen. We typically don't. 02:00:15
So just that. 02:00:18
Same number from my understanding. 02:00:20
Could you explain? 02:00:22
When the city reassesses impact fees. 02:00:24
And goes to add them to the fee schedule. 02:00:27
What's the process of assessment on the actual expense? 02:00:30
Associated with the fee. 02:00:33
Sorry, I don't know if I phrased that right, I'm just trying to make sure. 02:00:35
Are the fees. 02:00:39
As they're being charged. 02:00:41
Directly dollar for dollar covering and expense that's going to. 02:00:44
Be generated by them. 02:00:47
So. 02:00:49
With the impact FEES study, so it's a study that's. 02:00:50
Kindle words similar to the discussion that we had with the transportation utility. 02:00:54
Transportation utility fund, for example, roadways. 02:00:59
Studies done and then they look at the impacts. 02:01:03
To the. 02:01:06
For capacity, not to the Broadway system, but the impacts to capacity, what? 02:01:09
What additional infrastructure would have to be built? 02:01:13
Because of XYZ. 02:01:15
Developments. 02:01:17
As an example. 02:01:19
From there they. 02:01:20
Excuse me from there. 02:01:22
What the Adu or what we do is we develop a. 02:01:25
A capital project list of the infrastructure. 02:01:28
That would be built. That would be built. 02:01:31
Due to the growth. 02:01:33
Based on zoning. 02:01:35
Based on future of. 02:01:36
Future projections. 02:01:37
And then with the capital project list, we put the we associate dollars. 02:01:39
For example. 02:01:44
We had like for for example the lake Lake Blvd. 02:01:45
You know, this is not the impact fee, but we say, OK, that's going to be about $4.8 million based on length of the road. That's a 02:01:49
type of Rd. that's being built. 02:01:53
And then from there. 02:01:57
There is a determination about how many Ers. 02:01:59
Equivalent residential units. 02:02:04
Is being generated. 02:02:06
Based that's going to be that's approved for zoning. 02:02:08
In a certain area, in the areas and then. 02:02:12
You do a. 02:02:15
Cost proportion is based on that. 02:02:17
So for residential houses. 02:02:19
One residential house is equal to 1 eru so. 02:02:22
On equivalent residential. 02:02:26
Where if it was a. 02:02:28
A grocery store. 02:02:31
OK, yeah, if it was a grocery store. 02:02:32
The grocery store would. 02:02:34
Be using that same type of methodology that we talked about for transfusion utility for trip ends. 02:02:36
Like you know, how many, how many, how many trips does it generate for dress for transportation and back fees? 02:02:43
For water we in sewer we look at. 02:02:47
Meter sizes. So if it's. 02:02:51
Because the building with a 2 inch meter. 02:02:54
It's going to be generated, it's going to be utilizing have more of an impact. 02:02:56
Into building with a three quarter inch meter OK, so that's how we do it as proportionate any. 02:02:59
So can we say that you that? 02:03:05
Their impact fees. 02:03:07
All of them together would. 02:03:08
Double if they were to pay them based upon when the. 02:03:09
Charging them when we pull the permit or. 02:03:13
Tripled or. 02:03:15
5 * 10 times. 02:03:17
How much more? 02:03:18
Would they be asked to pay if they did it that way? 02:03:19
So how much more I don't let me see. 02:03:21
Just just rough, rough numbers. 02:03:25
10 times more we would have to look at. Five times we would have to take a look at what the previous permit pulled it versus what 02:03:28
they what the current permit would be pulled. 02:03:32
I think so. I'm just. 02:03:36
As a thought here. 02:03:38
Based on on kind of what? 02:03:40
Naseem was just sharing. 02:03:42
Those homes being built and developed. 02:03:44
The increase in the impact fee. 02:03:47
Sounds like it is less than 1% of the home cost. 02:03:50
Is that? 02:03:55
Check out. 02:03:56
The increase I mean, not the total impact fee. They had the existing fee. 02:03:59
But then if you look at adding an additional impact fee. 02:04:03
Because the developers at the end of the day. 02:04:06
They just passed that on to the. 02:04:08
The home buyer. 02:04:09
Right in the cost of the sale of the home. 02:04:11
And it's. 02:04:13
Easier for a home buyer to wrap that into a 30 year mortgage. 02:04:15
Than it is. 02:04:19
To try and tax or fee them. 02:04:20
Later. 02:04:23
Yeah. So is it also the recommendation then from you that we need to renegotiate if if we're coming to the table to negotiate? 02:04:24
Changes to the phases and the development agreement, we should be renegotiating the impact fees, correct. That's what we've 02:04:33
discussed the staff, yes, yeah. And I would like to make a note that it's very typical that. 02:04:38
And I'm sure other people have been the construction business themselves, but spirits of goal that you're a. 02:04:44
The impact fees are paid at the time of. 02:04:49
Permit so it's correct. So a lot has. 02:04:51
Been approved or a lot has been approved and then 20 years later. 02:04:55
You decide to build a house. You're paying for it. You're paying the impacts. 02:04:59
At the time you were building the house, the versus and. 02:05:02
Our legal representation isn't isn't able to be here today. He he did call me earlier this week and explain that to me that that 02:05:04
the way that this development agreement and contract has been structured is very atypical. 02:05:10
And that you don't ever lock in your impact fees ahead of time like that you you pay them as you go to build the building. 02:05:16
I'll agree with us. 02:05:26
This is the public hearing or not, but I'm on, I'm on Zoom now. This is Ryan Body with Katie Thomas. 02:05:27
Well, thanks for joining, Ryan. 02:05:36
After the presentation would let you. 02:05:38
Chime in with some comments. 02:05:40
And that's the developer. 02:05:42
Just for information. 02:05:43
Any other questions? 02:05:46
On this specifically. 02:05:48
I think if Ryan heard that question about the impact fees adjustments from what it. 02:05:50
Would be versus the change would. 02:05:56
Be good for us to know. Is it double? 02:05:58
Is it? 02:06:02
Triple what? 02:06:04
Adjustment. Umm. 02:06:05
So, um. 02:06:08
If you'd permit me, I just want to make a comment here. I've made notes. 02:06:09
To share with the entire Council. 02:06:12
I'm going to coordinate with Naseem and the rest of the team to share with the entire council. 02:06:16
The first ever impact fee that was charged. 02:06:20
For the first building that was built in the holdaway fields development. 02:06:22
And how much is gonna cost? 02:06:26
Today, if they were to pull a building permit and we'll share that with you so it gives you some more information. 02:06:27
Prior to it coming to city councils. 02:06:33
Public hearing on the 10th. 02:06:37
So would make that very available. 02:06:39
OK, awesome. So just continuing. 02:06:41
Please go ahead. OK. So just continuing, if we have no questions on impact fees, there's one other suggestion that we came up 02:06:46
with. 02:06:50
To at least. 02:06:54
I mean include at least one year. 02:06:55
Period for City Council to decide on the. 02:06:58
Current structures on the East Park. 02:07:01
If you look on the. 02:07:04
On the map, that's going to be the park. 02:07:06
Right to the Far East of the development. 02:07:08
There are some structures on there. The previous Council had expressed interest in maintaining some of them. 02:07:12
And repurposed for. 02:07:17
Whatever. 02:07:20
Park design that would be, you know, agreed on. 02:07:21
Residents have also shared some sentiments to keeping some of them now. 02:07:24
We want to include language to allow you at least one year. 02:07:29
To discuss and further. 02:07:32
You know, include in the. 02:07:34
Final agreement if this is approved. 02:07:37
That you want to keep set instructors. 02:07:40
And you know, would have the developer not demolish those. 02:07:43
If we decide to keep any structures, just the note of caution. 02:07:47
And later. 02:07:51
Later on in the line decide to demolish those. We bear the cost of demolishing those. 02:07:52
And these are very old buildings. Does a whole. 02:07:58
Lot to trying to demolish all of these, so we have if this goes the way it's supposed to go. 02:08:01
Would have potentially a whole year. 02:08:06
As council to decide if we want to keep any structures or just tear everything down and have them. 02:08:09
Do the park, as we have discussed, which is just going to be. 02:08:14
Lawn benches. 02:08:18
Pavilions. 02:08:20
Pretty much that's it. 02:08:21
Could I ask? 02:08:22
And I don't expect an answer immediately, so I mean maybe this is information we can get later. 02:08:23
Yeah, you mentioned it's expensive for the city to bear the cost of tearing down those structures. 02:08:27
What in contrast? 02:08:33
Would the cost look like? 02:08:36
For us to. 02:08:38
Renovate or stabilize for them to be long term as well. 02:08:40
Because there was some discussion with the Heritage. 02:08:44
Commission, Heritage Foundation, the Heritage Foundation about keeping those and having it be kind of like a Heritage Park in a 02:08:47
place where people could do photos and events and things like that, but obviously. 02:08:52
You would have to retrofit or not retrofit, maybe not the right word. You'd have to modify the structures as they currently are to 02:08:56
make that, you know, feasible and usable and usable. Yeah. So just to give you an update. 02:09:02
Staff has done a lot of, you know, inspections, engineering, We've we've done a lot to see what it looks like. Right now. It's not 02:09:07
safe. 02:09:11
Currently to use any of. 02:09:16
If I'm right with that one, there's. 02:09:18
A lot that we need to do to keep some of these buildings up to code does that barn building. That is correct. That's what I'm 02:09:22
asking about is if it's going to cost us, you know? 02:09:26
$300,000 to bulldoze those and then another $200,000 to remove all of the junk and waste and and that kind of stuff. So you have 02:09:30
maybe a half million dollar expense in demolishing that. 02:09:36
What's the actual cost? 02:09:41
For us to bring it up to code, is it less than? 02:09:43
Because I think generally speaking, it's nice for us to have the heritage type. 02:09:46
Yeah, thing and I I think that that area of town wants that. I mean that's something that people had talked about a little bit in 02:09:50
the campaign. 02:09:53
But at the same time, like we have to look at the economics of it too. And so I'm just curious what that actually shapes up. 02:09:58
To be. 02:10:04
You know, we could potentially come together as staff and get you those numbers. 02:10:05
OK. Thank you. And I don't, I don't think that's particularly urgent. I can, it's something I'd like on our few inspections we 02:10:09
have done. I do think the dairy barn there is probably past saving. It's also if you've ever stepped foot in there. 02:10:16
It wouldn't be very accommodating for human use as it was originally used for for. 02:10:22
Dairy milking cows. 02:10:27
But the silos there, some of those we have found to be in in really good shape and could potentially keep those as well as the 02:10:29
pole barn or a pole structure over there that was in in pretty good shape that we could look at at keeping our discussions about 02:10:34
that dairy barn because it is a really cool unique building would be to. 02:10:39
Take very good like photographic evidence of it and then if we were to reach. 02:10:45
You know, build a new pavilion or Event Center or something there that we essentially rebuild that structure using the elements of 02:10:49
that building that the design of that building. 02:10:52
To make it more usable for people and not cows. 02:10:56
Curious. I like that. I don't know if Councilman holds probably more familiar with this. 02:11:00
Property means in us, but me and the mayor went and walked it yesterday and I identified which structures. 02:11:04
The dairy barn is. 02:11:09
In bad shape, but the vast majority of people that are. 02:11:10
Are sneaking in there or not? 02:11:12
To go into the barn. 02:11:14
They just. 02:11:15
Take pictures around it. 02:11:16
I mean, there's so many artistic things, so. 02:11:17
I think what we would instruct staff is. 02:11:20
How would you? 02:11:22
Close up the doors in an artistic way, like with. 02:11:23
Barn doors. 02:11:27
And just make it so nobody even goes in it. 02:11:28
At all, it's just a structure. 02:11:31
That nobody even uses because that's what they like about it is. 02:11:34
Just the beauty of it. 02:11:37
Curious, we get, we get people constantly. 02:11:39
Trespassing my. 02:11:43
Yard to go take pictures. 02:11:45
OK. I apologize. I kind of derailed the conversation in that. 02:11:47
Felt like that's relevant to the original conversation. Oh yeah. 02:11:51
As it progresses, I mean, if we're going to make decisions on what to keep and what not to keep. 02:11:54
Those buildings have asbestos and many other things that. 02:11:59
Makes demolition those. That building was built 100 years before asbestos was created. There's no asbestos in that building. 02:12:02
Asbestos came in the 1970s. 02:12:07
So no asbestos in there? 02:12:13
Perhaps we could ask the developer since he's online. 02:12:15
What what what the difference is and the impact fees. 02:12:18
That he would. 02:12:21
He's expecting to pay versus what? 02:12:22
The city would charge him. 02:12:24
I think he has an estimate of that at hand. 02:12:25
So, Ryan, are you still online? 02:12:29
Yeah, I'm here. So how much? 02:12:32
What's the difference in the impact fees that you were you're expected to pay one of the under the existing? 02:12:34
Agreement versus what the city has said they would charge you. 02:12:40
If they were to update those. 02:12:44
About $6000 a house. 02:12:46
So. 02:12:48
Times 295 homes in the neighborhood. That's a million and a half dollars. 02:12:49
And and so how much do you pay right now? 02:12:55
Right now under the contract. 02:12:57
Per house. 02:12:59
Our first first building permit. 02:13:00
Under the under the impact fee schedule. 02:13:02
Agreed to in the development agreement. 02:13:05
House was $24,000. 02:13:07
25, give or take. 02:13:10
Currently, currently and we're and we're in the process. 02:13:12
Of sending an invoice to the city. 02:13:19
It's over $30,000 right now. 02:13:21
Just to clarify that, I believe that's a building, that's the total building permit, not just the impact fee. 02:13:25
That's the total building, that's the total permit. 02:13:29
Total, I'm just going off the total building for a minute because it's the easiest numbers and the only thing that's changed on 02:13:31
that is the impact fees. 02:13:34
For the delta, the change in that is impact fee, so 6. 02:13:38
You can You can average about $6000 a house. 02:13:41
OK. 02:13:44
Thank you, it helps us to know. 02:13:47
OK. And while I can appreciate the comment that well we just passed that on to the buyer like? 02:13:49
We're all consumers in this market and. 02:13:55
The answer to that question is not. 02:13:58
Is not as clean. 02:14:00
They're just going to pass it on. So why do we care about it? It's the fact that. 02:14:02
A development agreement. 02:14:06
Especially when it comes to the financial side of a development agreement. 02:14:08
Is discussed in depth and negotiated. 02:14:12
The four projects are because there's a lot of things that go into play, size of the roads. 02:14:15
The amount of open space, The overall density. 02:14:20
The improvements. 02:14:23
The land given things that. 02:14:24
Things that cost. 02:14:26
Money for a neighborhood? 02:14:27
All get discussed upfront and so. 02:14:30
Our request and change in the development agreement. 02:14:33
Had zero financial impact to us or to the city. 02:14:36
The request back from the city has been a financial impact. 02:14:40
So, and you know all that. 02:14:43
I know everybody's frustrated about it. 02:14:45
But you just need to understand that this was not a flippant thing. This was not. 02:14:47
A mistake. This was not something that wasn't discussed. There was. 02:14:51
There was. 02:14:54
25 to 30 back and forth revisions to this Development Agreement. 02:14:56
Don't let me off the leash. 02:15:00
And just to clarify that, I think part of the applicant's. 02:15:02
Request for a development agreement change is due to the financial impact of building the West. 02:15:06
Park first versus the East. Park first. 02:15:11
So I just want to clarify that point. 02:15:14
Ryan, can you speak on that? 02:15:16
What was that? 02:15:21
Would like you to speak on the impact of. 02:15:24
Building either the West Park first or the East Park. 02:15:27
As part of your amendment and to my understanding and and I just want to. 02:15:31
You know, be very, very open about this and I apologize if it's offensive to you because it's direct. 02:15:35
When you came in here and you, you approached us about this last Tuesday and we're trying to assess this and look at it all now. 02:15:40
The reasoning that you provided was that there is. 02:15:47
Market need or market demand? 02:15:49
For you to amend this plan. 02:15:51
And I'm asking you to recognize that there's also some market need and market demand that the city has to face now, too. 02:15:54
And this contract was? 02:16:00
Essentially negotiated in a very atypical way with the previous administration. 02:16:02
And while we want to be accommodating to you and your needs and the business development on your side as well. 02:16:07
I, we, I think it's not unrealistic to say that we need you to be a little bit accommodating with the city as well. 02:16:12
You know, we're in a very tight. 02:16:19
Financial position. 02:16:20
Largely due. 02:16:21
To the damage that developer vehicles do on our infrastructure and roads. 02:16:23
And I mean, we're looking at a period you or maybe weren't here for that work session. 02:16:27
But. 02:16:31
You know, just just earlier today, we're projecting 37% of our city's total budget over the next three years going to repaving and 02:16:33
taking care of transportation infrastructure. 02:16:37
Now I know the impact fees can't cover that. 02:16:41
But decisions aren't made in a vacuum, and there is a very. 02:16:43
Holistic conversation that needs to take place here. 02:16:45
About the expense that the developers? 02:16:48
Are putting on the city. 02:16:51
And we aren't getting. 02:16:52
The necessary recompense to rectify that on our end. 02:16:54
Yeah, I think there's a lot to unpack in that statement and and and. 02:17:00
It may be worth the meeting, you know. 02:17:04
One-on-one or one on two if you. 02:17:07
To discuss this a little bit more in depthly, but. 02:17:09
I'm happy. 02:17:13
If you guys want to stay. 02:17:14
At the development agreement the way it is. 02:17:16
With the only request we change was not was was a phasing. 02:17:18
That just warehouses came in first or second. 02:17:22
That's it's a super simple thing. It's not uncommon. 02:17:26
But but. 02:17:31
So we can say I don't care. 02:17:32
You want the West Park first, E Park first. It's not a financial impact to us, it just makes sense the way development should 02:17:34
occur. 02:17:37
So if you wanted to go that way. 02:17:41
I don't. 02:17:43
I don't believe that we have a problem with that so. 02:17:44
We were we were approached that. 02:17:47
To ask a question. 02:17:49
Yes, I approach to change the phasing plan because it makes sense from from a logical standpoint of. 02:17:50
How to bring houses in? 02:17:56
And a better understanding of what was selling and not selling. 02:17:57
But does that change the financial impact for us? No. 02:18:00
Doesn't so. 02:18:04
Mapping to revert back to the old development agreement. We can stop this conversation today. If that's if that's. 02:18:06
If that's the feeling that you have, but I'm also happy, I'm also happy to. 02:18:11
Explained this the development agreement was not a whimsical agreement. 02:18:15
If that's the word. 02:18:19
Her youth it was. 02:18:21
This was it was negotiated over an extended period of time with lots of revisions to it. 02:18:22
Awesome. Any other any other questions or commentary regarding this item? 02:18:34
This agenda item. 02:18:38
I want to say thank you to the developer for being here and representing his thoughts and. 02:18:43
His position? 02:18:47
Appreciate it very much. 02:18:48
And I think, I think Ryan, your points well taken. We currently have a development agreement. It's signed, it's executed, it's 02:18:50
been. 02:18:52
You know, uh. 02:18:55
Thought out over a long times and. 02:18:57
A lot of time and. 02:18:59
The question before Council is do we? 02:19:02
Do we want to? 02:19:04
Is there an appetite to change it up? 02:19:05
So and. 02:19:07
But. 02:19:09
This is great information. 02:19:10
Good context to this. Anything else you want to present, Anthony? No, I just wanted to let you know the next steps. I've already 02:19:12
shared the evolution of the phase and plan with you, so I'm not going to even talk about it. 02:19:17
Next steps is we have. 02:19:24
Be a public noticed. 02:19:26
Public hearing for Planning Commission on the 4th, which is just tomorrow and at that meeting. 02:19:27
Planning Commission is going to make a recommendation either for an approval. 02:19:35
You know approval with conditions or denial and at that point it comes to City Council on the 10th so if. 02:19:39
The applicant decides to pull this application. 02:19:46
Then would have to you know. 02:19:50
Not hold the public hearing. 02:19:51
From that point. So it all depends on what you decide at that point. 02:19:53
OK. Thank you. OK. 02:19:57
All right, any other comments or questions on 4.2? 02:19:59
All the way fields development agreement. 02:20:03
OK, scene, scene none. Let's jump down to 4.3400 S roadway design. Thank you. 02:20:05
Thank you. 02:20:11
Is this going to be? 02:20:15
Staff lead Staff, do you have a presentation you'd like to talk to all about this? Yeah, yeah, we have a. 02:20:16
Yeah, quick discussion point here. 02:20:20
Might take a second for quick share here. 02:20:27
I have to leave too. 02:20:52
So let's keep it. 02:20:53
I have to leave. 02:20:55
12 minutes. 02:20:56
So sorry, I'll try to be 11 minutes then, yeah. 02:20:57
Or less. 02:21:01
You want, you want, you want to leave holding. Yeah, that's the only thing I'm here. 02:21:04
Yeah. OK. So just a brief update where we're at with this. 02:21:07
You know, along the lines of holdaway fields they have. 02:21:14
This isn't quite the most up-to-date aerial actually, I think. 02:21:17
Go here. There's a little bit more. You can see the LDS church being built here. 02:21:21
And they have built the road for South all the way up to here. 02:21:24
On the eastern edge here. 02:21:29
And then they're working on on the underground utilities for their connection in the road right here. They have a 77 foot right of 02:21:31
way. That right of way includes a. 02:21:34
Is that a two or three lane? 02:21:38
Road there. 02:21:39
It's a three lane Rd. and then it has a trail on the north side and the sidewalk on the South side. When you say 3 lane Rd. you 02:21:41
mean? 02:21:45
Yeah, one way, one way, one way, and a utility in the middle. 02:21:48
Yep, OK. Yep, that's exactly right. So the, the portion that that we want to talk about today and kind of get some feedback and 02:21:51
direction from the council on is going to be from where their property line ends, which is is kind of up here. 02:21:57
All the way up to Holdaway Rd. because as hold. 02:22:03
As cadence homes and good. 02:22:06
Finish up their portion of the road. We want to make sure that our portion of the road is is well connected so that the residents 02:22:08
on this portion of the city can easily get in and out of the city. 02:22:12
And and don't have to deal with, you know, in. 02:22:17
Interrupted due to construction or whatever because we were late to the the game with this. 02:22:20
So what I have here a few weeks ago. 02:22:25
We talked about this a little bit in detail. We had a resident provide us a drawing essentially of. 02:22:28
Of what this could look like and. 02:22:34
So we just wanted to come back with this is documents that we had drawn up by Ave. consultants. I think they provided them to us 02:22:36
in December of last year to show what this section of Rd. would look like with our existing right of way. I believe we have 65 02:22:41
feet. 02:22:46
And right away from in this portion. 02:22:51
And I know there's been some concern there. There was discussion about how wide this road would be. And so we just wanted to clear 02:22:54
that up the the proposed roadway here. 02:22:59
Actually, if I go to the. 02:23:03
Agenda. Here you can actually see. 02:23:05
This is what we we have proposed. It's a one lane in each direction and then a bike lane on each side. 02:23:07
A 10 foot trail on the Northside and then a. 02:23:13
5 foot sidewalk that's existing. 02:23:16
On the. 02:23:18
On the South side. 02:23:19
And this plan? 02:23:21
David is essentially the one that you presented on, not quite. So the one that he presented on. 02:23:22
I have. 02:23:29
I think. 02:23:30
Right here. 02:23:30
Omits that trail on the Northside, correct? That was the so amidst the trail and then? 02:23:32
The the one thing staff was confused by it. It is the same Rd. width of about 36 feet. 02:23:37
But it includes a. 02:23:43
It looks like an 11 foot. 02:23:45
Lane right here and then like a 20 foot lane right here. 02:23:46
No, it shrinks up. He just didn't draw the line. Yeah, I think, well, I mean, the curve is this. 02:23:51
Is this purple line right here? He's drawn the curb there. 02:23:55
Yeah. And and so if it were to shrink up, it would be further. It just, it didn't make sense to us. 02:23:58
And we have the right of way there. Why wouldn't it just be the same three lane? You know, you have one going one way, one going 02:24:04
the other way, utility in the middle. So that's to meet up with the the. 02:24:08
Road on the east side in in Orem and our portion, we don't have that. 02:24:13
We do have the one lane in each direction with the bike lane. 02:24:18
OK, so that no longer is painted that way there is correct? 02:24:21
This is outdated imagery right here. 02:24:25
Yeah, there's there's no new utility right in the middle. 02:24:28
So we heard that concern, I think from Councilman Holdaway that he didn't want to see a turn lane like this road isn't going to 02:24:31
get a lot of traffic. And so that's why. 02:24:34
We we have this design that. 02:24:38
You know, we want the turn lane. We love the turn lane. Sorry, not the turn lane, the utility lane for that whole stretch. If you, 02:24:40
if you did that, then we'd get rid of the bike lanes. 02:24:44
On each side and then you just have the one lane in each direction. 02:24:48
Well, and this. 02:24:52
Really matches the existing traffic pattern, correct? Yeah, so. 02:24:53
I mean, I think. 02:24:57
Generally speaking, give me your thoughts everybody but. 02:24:58
This was what I think we were largely in agreeance on. 02:25:01
Previously, can you answer a question back? 02:25:06
Go back to which one? 02:25:09
What is this? 02:25:10
Go back to the one that you're just at. Sorry. 02:25:12
Scroll over. 02:25:16
I might have to go to a different page here. 02:25:17
I'm just how does this match up? 02:25:19
Yeah. 02:25:23
Going into the cadence, so. 02:25:25
Yeah, let me go. 02:25:28
Cut line there. What does it look like? 02:25:29
This first sheet should show it. 02:25:32
So yeah, we have a roundabout at Lakeview Drive. This is that park with the barns and whatnot. This would continue over into the. 02:25:36
Is that the Elms neighborhood? 02:25:43
And then down here into Sleepy Ridge. 02:25:45
So the one area that we did have some issues with this design that you're seeing here is we don't own this. 02:25:47
Triangle partial of land and so. 02:25:52
We've created a new design where the trail we we proposed 10 feet. It would. 02:25:55
Pinched down to 5 feet to avoid that property and then expand back out to 10 feet to where we own the the right of way. 02:25:59
So this isn't quite up to date. We have a new image. 02:26:07
I think. 02:26:09
And it's just the same with the road. Does this continue? I mean? 02:26:11
Roughly right again. 02:26:14
Continue on the way. 02:26:15
Downward this way as well. 02:26:17
Yeah, it does get a bit wider because they do have that middle lane. 02:26:19
Throughout the the Cadence neighborhood, when you say wider, you mean on this east side? 02:26:22
So it's on the West side towards Holdaway Fields. They have that middle lane and then I believe they have a planting strip and the 02:26:26
trail where we do not have a. 02:26:29
Planting strip, we just have the trail. 02:26:33
Does this plan right here? Is this? Is this a stop sign right here? 02:26:37
Yeah, Yep. 02:26:42
Yep. And that's also part of this is fixing that crosswalk. Right now the crosswalk is kind of at a weird angle right here and so 02:26:44
we wanted to square that up here. 02:26:48
OK. 02:26:52
So and this plan also doesn't go all the way to the right of way line on the North. I believe that there's about a 2 foot. 02:26:53
Gap between the right of way line and where this trail would be. 02:26:59
You can kind of see that right here. 02:27:04
OK. Council questions or anything else cash on this? 02:27:10
No, we're we're just like I said, we so the. 02:27:13
Cadence is mobilizing to get theirs paved, hopefully this spring. 02:27:16
And we just want to hopefully, you know, work off with them and get this road. 02:27:20
Finished. Currently we have curb and gutter on the South side. We don't have that on the north side. We just want to, you know, 02:27:24
make sure that this road is open and ready for business as Cadence finishes up their portion. 02:27:29
Going back to the tough discussion, the scene was this. 02:27:34
So this portion that we're talking about here is going to be covered by the city. Was this in the, was this in the top that we 02:27:36
were talking about earlier today and. 02:27:40
Yes. 02:27:45
I believe it was right. 02:27:46
So we. 02:27:50
Yeah, he's looking it up. Yeah. So the portion of it, yes. And then also. 02:27:54
The other portion of it would be. 02:27:58
Paid through impact fees. 02:28:01
As well too because of the the 1.2 million. 02:28:02
So that the. 02:28:06
The part that you're forgetting though, is if we do with this wider structure, there's two things. 02:28:09
If you do this plan, we have to connect this. 02:28:14
The septic tank because it goes over the. 02:28:17
Leech lines there. 02:28:20
And so. 02:28:22
Cadence is only taking the. 02:28:23
Sewer line. 02:28:25
So you're going to need to design to get it up to. 02:28:27
Because you're taking 12 extra feet from the design. 02:28:31
I know there's a right of way. 02:28:34
But that will bury the. 02:28:36
Leach fields. 02:28:38
That are there, yeah. So that's going to be another. 02:28:39
On top of the 1.2. 02:28:43
I mean, it goes 300 feet, so I don't know. You're gonna have to. 02:28:45
Yeah, that portion of we anticipate that portion of it and actually. 02:28:49
And I know that I mean septic tanks is administrated by the county. 02:28:52
Through the County Health Department and. 02:28:57
We do have ordinance to that we would like the city desires to. 02:29:01
Any service, any residents and. 02:29:07
That's within a certain number of feet of a city's municipal sewer line. 02:29:11
The city does promote to get them onto the city sewer. 02:29:15
Because it's right, but you're going to have to bring it from the Cadence property all the way up. We already have that figured 02:29:20
out. And plus it provides, but it's only a manhole that's about 80 yards away. We measured it last night. 02:29:25
OK. I can't speak on what you measure last night, but we do anticipate, again correct me if I'm wrong Patrick, but we do this 02:29:31
papering in the. 02:29:34
Sewer line in order to be able to connect their residents. 02:29:37
From a septic tank to the city, so I believe the resident. 02:29:41
As long as we state that they were. 02:29:44
OK, without and again it's kind of aligning towards our policy towards. 02:29:46
And I completely agree with that septic. I want to make sure we get that design to the council on top of the 1.2 on this medium 02:29:52
Rd. 02:29:56
We're going to add that engineering to get that home. 02:30:00
Connected as well. 02:30:03
Medium sized road and that cost is. 02:30:05
Put into the tough because no, it's not put into the tough. It's actually considered so since septic and it would actually be 02:30:10
coming out of the sewer impact fees. 02:30:14
Because what we're doing is we're increasing, we're putting for additional. 02:30:18
So and those type of those type of costs and so forth as enterprise funds are. 02:30:22
Typically accounted for as a business as a business practice. 02:30:27
OK. Any other questions? 02:30:32
More discussion. 02:30:36
Or direction to for staff. 02:30:38
On this. 02:30:40
I think everybody knows my feelings on it, but. 02:30:44
I'll defer to you guys. 02:30:47
I think that in a time of. 02:30:51
Staring at all the different projects to. 02:30:53
You know you have. 02:30:57
If you scroll back and look at the road, that's right next to the City Hall here. 02:30:58
Where you go look at 300 W. 02:31:03
Where you go look at. 02:31:05
The road on the east side of the roundabout in this same development. 02:31:07
They're all the very skinny Rd. 02:31:11
And the only reason why this was adjusted 8 years ago was during the LRS problem. 02:31:13
That's why I was reelected was because hundreds of people signed the. 02:31:18
Referendum to stop the Clegg development. One of the biggest things was the width of the road. 02:31:24
In being a target to bring more traffic down to the South side. 02:31:29
So I would just tell the citizens that I. 02:31:34
You know, oppose the width of it. 02:31:37
To make it safe. 02:31:39
About half the people. 02:31:40
Turn to go to the. 02:31:42
Charter school. 02:31:43
Every morning, all of our traffic comes from the. 02:31:45
The charter school, they don't actually go. 02:31:48
To the lake. The lake dead ends. 02:31:50
And so it's just. 02:31:52
A lot of infrastructure for. 02:31:53
I didn't realize it was only 300 houses. 02:31:56
It's tiny. 02:31:59
So. But that's how I feel. 02:32:00
Well, as part of our master transportation plan, this this route was supposed to. 02:32:03
Help. 02:32:08
Bring traffic from them. 02:32:09
Rest of the city. 02:32:10
Down, you know, down this route and out 400 S as opposed to coming down. 02:32:11
Holdway Rd. 02:32:16
Which is on Neighborhood Rd. which has been turned into a thoroughfare by the city, but because of their lack of. 02:32:17
Of doing infrastructure necessary to have the main route there. 02:32:22
So it needs to be. It needs to be a. 02:32:27
An artery class Rd. I mean, I'm not, I'm not. 02:32:29
I'm not suggesting that, but the road in front of the City Hall here is a skinnier, medium sized Rd. 02:32:32
And so. 02:32:38
Like. 02:32:40
You're going wide to go back skinnier. 02:32:40
Well, I think this. 02:32:43
You know, you think it looks skinnier because you have those, those they put planter strips, right? That's why I was saying I like 02:32:44
that design. It's safer. So I said, but that's a wider right of way than you have up here You're talking about. I'm not talking 02:32:49
about the right of way. I'm talking about the design of the road. 02:32:53
So yeah. 02:32:58
Can I actually? 02:33:01
I was I'm thinking, but I'm. 02:33:04
I'm maybe defeating my own thought. 02:33:06
I was just going to bring up. 02:33:08
You know, for putting in the 10 foot trail. 02:33:10
What is there still necessity for the bike lanes? And then at the same time I'm like yo, you want to match the existing traffic 02:33:13
pattern to the east? Makes sense. 02:33:17
Yeah, yeah. 02:33:21
And one wonders why we have to have a 10 foot wide trail if we have the bicycle traffic already offloaded onto the street. 02:33:22
So that it was 6 foot trail be suffice so that. 02:33:28
If I'm wrong here you can correct me, but I believe it has to do with the roller size that we can get to make a trail is 9 1/2 02:33:31
feet wide. 02:33:35
So it's just that or nothing. So yeah, like actually the Holdaway Fields LDS church that was just constructed, they had planned a 02:33:39
six foot trail there. 02:33:43
8 foot trail but they went up to 10 because. 02:33:47
That's all they could do with the roller that. 02:33:51
It was available. 02:33:53
For this trail, so yeah. 02:33:54
Yeah, trails will scale down. Having built many of these, the smaller you get the the price for square foot doesn't necessarily 02:34:00
scale down with it because it's just. 02:34:03
You're using smaller excavators, smaller rollers that cost more to run, So yeah, yeah. 02:34:07
If I could add to I, I believe there was a discussion. 02:34:12
Last week or so about scooters on on paths and there were the dangers of that. 02:34:15
So having a bike lane also gets the faster moving traffic away from away from the trail that can be utilized by by other 02:34:21
pedestrians. 02:34:26
That's one thing. And also bike. 02:34:31
We've got a lot of. 02:34:34
Feedback on people who ride bikes in the city. 02:34:35
Saying that they would rather be on the road than on the trail. 02:34:38
And and have to. 02:34:41
You know, steer away from the pedestrians that are using the trail. 02:34:43
So that's. 02:34:46
Part of part of having the trail and the bike lanes separate as well. 02:34:47
And does that dedicated bike lane go all the way down right? 02:34:53
All the way down to Main Street. I don't know if we were planning on. 02:34:58
Taking that. 02:35:01
Bike lane any further than that? 02:35:02
You know, like it like when it gets to cadence, it doesn't. They don't have. 02:35:05
Bike lane I could just so they're going to pave a certain width of Rd. What we deal with that. 02:35:08
You know, it's yeah, we can. We can stripe it however we want, Yeah. 02:35:15
We have some options there that we can go over with you guys to to. 02:35:20
Look at what options we want to go with. 02:35:24
That could be a good. 02:35:27
You know, discussion that we have. 02:35:29
Thumbs up from you. 02:35:39
What? Umm. 02:35:41
What direction should we give staff? 02:35:43
On this I. 02:35:45
I can give some options. So essentially this has been the approved plan that that we've been moving forward with as we go out of 02:35:46
bed and stuff. 02:35:49
You know, we'd go forward with this. We just heard conversations from council members. 02:35:53
That they potentially might have wanted to switch it. And so if you did want to switch it, you could direct us to update our 02:35:56
transportation master plan, go through the process to get this road declassified or whatever. Otherwise, we can continue business 02:36:01
as usual. Sure, working on this. 02:36:05
This design that we have here, so I think. 02:36:09
Councillor Holdaway just left. He did say he perhaps agreed to this plan, which was great. And I think if that's the case, I think 02:36:14
you probably could get that little piece of land. 02:36:18
Little corner is that's a. 02:36:22
Been held back by his father. 02:36:24
I think he's holding it back to help support. 02:36:25
Jake in his position, so he agrees to it. You're probably able to buy it. 02:36:28
Yeah, we can restart those conversations. 02:36:32
OK. Also one more question and that's the roundabout there that. 02:36:35
At the. 02:36:39
Sorry. Well, that's the talking to me one. 02:36:41
At the roundabout there. 02:36:44
Are we, as part of this plan, to connect that roundabout over to? 02:36:46
Zinfandel, it eventually will connect as infidel. I don't think it's part of this plan. That's part of Cadence's obligations that 02:36:50
they have to do. So they'll stub it and that's all. 02:36:54
Out the stuff out of Rd. there is all. 02:36:58
OK, yeah, so be it'll be stuffed out and then when the park comes online. 02:37:00
And future date then the plan is to. 02:37:04
Connecting to Zippendale. 02:37:07
OK. 02:37:09
All right. Thank you. 02:37:10
OK. 02:37:13
Yeah, I'm good. Go ahead. 02:37:16
We are all good, Jacob. 02:37:17
I'm good. You get on this OK. Yeah, it seems like this. 02:37:18
Pretty much alignment across the board here. I think so and I. 02:37:21
I walked this with Jake last night and kind of showed him and. 02:37:24
And, umm. 02:37:27
You had to step out for a meeting, but I think that. 02:37:28
This works so. 02:37:31
Onward and upward. 02:37:34
Go ahead. 02:37:36
OK. Thank you. 02:37:37
All righty. 02:37:38
Let's jump down to the Forge and IHC development agreements. 02:37:41
4.4 I I don't even have a presentation with on this one, I just wanted to be relatively quick. 02:37:46
Give you an update on where we're at with this. So this is I, he and the Forge, they're running kind of congruent development 02:37:51
agreements, ones an amendment 1 is the new agreement with the city. 02:37:56
We've been working really closely with. 02:38:01
Jesse Riddle on the language here. 02:38:03
And we're all in alignment between staff as well as the The Forge, The Forge team, and Intermountain team. 02:38:05
Been great to work with. 02:38:12
And so we were originally going to be doing public hearings tomorrow at. 02:38:13
Or on Wednesday with Planning Commission. 02:38:17
And then City Council next week, but they have to postpone those by two weeks. So we'll be having these items for a business item. 02:38:19
In a public hearing with the City Council here here shortly. 02:38:26
But they've, like I said, they've been very accommodating. If you guys have questions about the Forge or anything like that, I'm 02:38:29
happy to answer them. But we just wanted to give you a brief update on where we're at with those. 02:38:33
OK. Any questions on current state with this? 02:38:38
Do I have any questions there? 02:38:43
Is it and one thing that they did ask me to see the councils kind of ideas if. 02:38:45
So far. Like are you? 02:38:52
OK. With, with the changing of the phasing, so this was the forges required to bring in this entertainment anchor. They're saying 02:38:53
we're having a hard time doing this, let us build our retail, commercial and residential first. 02:38:58
And then hopefully we can land a cool entertainment use water of a block. 02:39:03
Is that still something relatively well supported? 02:39:07
You know, good. 02:39:09
Get dirt moving over there construction. I gave to them and I met with them I said we're struck like we just want to we need 02:39:10
retail, we need sales tax let's. 02:39:14
If a big entertainment district is. 02:39:18
They're having a hard time. Let's. 02:39:20
Let's get something else coming. 02:39:22
Camp are we aligned there yeah the only thing I we worry about is that we've had experience in the past where we've had. 02:39:24
We've had a multi use area that was supposed to be both commercial and residential. 02:39:32
And all the residential built. 02:39:37
Took years to bring the commercial in. 02:39:39
So this development agreement does address that and does say they need to get moving on the commercial retail. 02:39:41
Portion first and be at a certain percentage of completion there before they can get moving on the the residential. 02:39:46
So we're very well aware of the. 02:39:53
Previous mistakes that have been made and, and hopefully we've addressed it in this Devone agreement and. 02:39:55
Dakota Pacific's been great. 02:39:59
At working with us on that. 02:40:01
Thank you. 02:40:02
Thank you. 02:40:03
OK, any other discussion on 4.3? 02:40:04
I'm sorry, I'm 4.4 the forge. 02:40:08
I see. OK. 02:40:10
Awesome. Let's jump to 4.5 RDA administration. I'm going to. 02:40:12
Recognize Councilman to. 02:40:16
Lead out in that discussion. 02:40:18
You bet. 02:40:19
So we. 02:40:21
Start with a little report on. 02:40:22
What's happened so far? You know where we are in the RDA. 02:40:24
Since coming in, it's sort of been a big black box for us. We've been trying to figure out what's inside it. A black box. 02:40:27
So the audit of the agreed upon procedures. 02:40:32
Audit that that we've done earlier. 02:40:35
The report and the accompanying supplemental observations. The recommendations report from December 10th. 02:40:37
Revealed a number of financial vulnerabilities in the city. 02:40:43
These vulnerabilities were found in several areas, many of which are being addressed, with more to follow. 02:40:46
So far, the city has not attempted to correct deficiencies found in the RDA finances, even though the dollar amounts in question 02:40:51
that the RDA are at least an order of magnitude. 02:40:55
Larger. 02:41:00
Than any other at risk. 02:41:01
Area of the city finances. 02:41:02
So a draft resolution was discussed in one work session. 02:41:04
But the outcome that we needed to rework the resolution and rebid the next steps. 02:41:08
On it was supposed to follow one. 02:41:12
Let's do more in depth audit. 02:41:14
That did more just the sound they look at. 02:41:16
Whole range of. 02:41:19
Receipts as opposed to sampling. 02:41:21
To this point, no RFP has been issued for the new extended audit. 02:41:24
We have not been able to determine. 02:41:30
How the new audit should be funded. 02:41:32
About either by the city or by the RDA, we're not sure how the what the structure is for. 02:41:35
You know who's? 02:41:40
Which pot is that money in and and who controls it? That sort of stuff. 02:41:41
And so we're trying to find that out and then take appropriate steps. 02:41:47
Steps after we figured that out so we can. 02:41:50
Make those funds available to hire the. 02:41:52
The consultant. 02:41:55
Anyway, nor have we been able to make progress in staffing or beginning to correct any identified flaws that are in the RDA. 02:41:57
Record keeping. 02:42:03
Went out in the previous reports. 02:42:04
We have not even been able to agree on how the RDA should be staffed going forward. 02:42:07
It is clear from the AUP audit, the original audit, that more will be needed to be done. 02:42:11
By the single part-time RDA director could do. 02:42:18
And. And so we were ah. 02:42:23
Josh. Josh is ready. 02:42:26
You actually we started without you, but it's quickest set up quickly. 02:42:28
So. 02:42:32
Anyway, so we have a question like what would the organization look like? What's the best practice with regard to the possible 02:42:33
staffing? Things like these are all questions we have that we have no idea how to how to proceed with. 02:42:39
And so the purpose of this work session today is to go over those details and see if we can't figure out. 02:42:45
What we do know and. 02:42:50
And what's what the organization structure is and see how we can. 02:42:52
You know, use that to move forward. 02:42:55
Something else to consider, I'm told the RDA will be required to make substantial payments as soon as April 1st. 02:43:00
How can we verify those payments are correct? And that was one of the big things that the we've. 02:43:05
We found in the last audit is that there were there was number. 02:43:09
No mechanism for determining whether or not. 02:43:12
Payments were. 02:43:15
Were accurate. 02:43:16
Whether the building was right? Whether. 02:43:17
Whether we're paying the right markups and all sorts of things. 02:43:20
So how can we be sure that those will be correct when going out? So somehow we have to figure out that and. 02:43:23
Get our arms around that. 02:43:30
And so. 02:43:32
Let me just go over just. 02:43:35
There were six points that the auditor made. 02:43:36
And he highlighted in his report that. 02:43:39
I thought I wanted to bring forward and make sure we discuss these. 02:43:43
He basically said there's no building amount verification system existing right now, so no documented process exists to describe 02:43:47
what. 02:43:50
Steps to city staff. 02:43:54
Should take before approving an RDA reimbursement payments and then. 02:43:56
Also that no second is no receipts. 02:43:59
Or provided in reimbursement requests when he was doing the audit? 02:44:02
Many building packets lack subcontractor invoices or scale tickets or manifests or other details of substantiation for the the 02:44:05
build amounts. 02:44:09
So that was an issue. 02:44:13
3rd 1 Vineyard paid exorbitant markups. 02:44:14
Some subcontractors applies to get multipliers. 02:44:17
Some as high as I said 290 but 270 as that is the corrective number. 02:44:20
Sorry. 02:44:24
270% over. 02:44:25
The actual cost? 02:44:27
For their labor. 02:44:29
Equipment, materials, whatever else was being billed with that. 02:44:31
That's without supporting agreements or contract based rates. We. 02:44:34
Are we paying the right amount? 02:44:37
We don't know. 02:44:38
We would suspect not. 02:44:40
OK, next. 02:44:42
No one's verifying the bills that are coming in. 02:44:44
There's no doc, no documentation was provided showing that Vineyard staff or Anderson, Geneva. 02:44:46
Performed independent verification of building quantities or on site inspections. 02:44:51
Tied to any particular invoice or any third party engineering reviews. 02:44:55
Just no evidence. Is there any connection between any of those things? 02:45:00
So no one verifying those things. 02:45:03
That's seems to be. 02:45:05
Next one RDA board failed to verify payment amounts before approving them. 02:45:07
The RDA board materials show that high level updates. 02:45:12
But no show. They showed high level updates, but no evidence of detailed review or discussion of individual payment packets. 02:45:18
So the board. 02:45:24
Essentially said what's what's the total amount? So OK, that's right. 02:45:25
Do it. No, no one bothered to take a look at what the what the. 02:45:27
With the incremental parts of that bill was where we're for. 02:45:31
And what we got for that money. 02:45:34
And lastly, the RDA transactions represent the single largest exposure. 02:45:37
To possible. 02:45:42
Graft within the city. I'm saying there isn't a graft or fraud or anything else. We're saying this is the largest place that. 02:45:43
Could happen and we wouldn't be able to recognize what happened. 02:45:47
So it's a risk. 02:45:50
Not that it's happening, just that there's a risk that could happen. 02:45:51
So the at risk dollar amounts processed with the RDA are in the millions of dollars? 02:45:55
Not just the thousands of dollars. 02:46:00
Which is unlike the rest of the area, any other area of the city, we're talking at most thousands. 02:46:02
The RDA. 02:46:07
Millions. 02:46:08
So it's, I think it's really. 02:46:09
Important that we. 02:46:11
That we get control of this. 02:46:12
Figure out what's going on so we can. 02:46:14
We can say to our the citizens that yes, we know what's happening and yes, this is right. 02:46:16
So. 02:46:22
That's where we are and I. 02:46:22
We have asked, you know. 02:46:24
Josh Daniels, Ark. 02:46:26
Already administrator here manager and. 02:46:27
We've asked him to. 02:46:30
Come and address some of these issues. 02:46:31
So we have no other questions as well, but Josh, I'll turn it over to you to. 02:46:33
Deal with the things that you're prepared to show us. 02:46:37
Sure. Thank you. 02:46:40
Um, yeah. 02:46:43
We'll get set up with a few things, but while you get set up, can I ask just a clarifying question here because I thought that 02:46:45
this was something that had been previously discussed? 02:46:48
We had a resolution that we discussed. 02:46:53
But then it turned out that that many of the. 02:46:55
Principles that resolution was built on. 02:46:58
Weren't right. 02:47:00
And so we had to go back to. 02:47:02
Administrator Administration. 02:47:04
To my understanding, Zach, you had met with. 02:47:06
Some of the other taxing entities. 02:47:09
And there was. 02:47:11
Some appetite to support an increase in the administrative. 02:47:12
Fees with the RDA to fund. 02:47:17
I would assume you know the staffing and the audits and things like that, is that correct? Yeah, those are those are high level 02:47:20
conversations that. 02:47:24
That they said that they would we wouldn't entertain but needed to have. 02:47:27
It was with the new school district and with them. 02:47:31
Getting their feet underneath them it would. 02:47:34
Take some time for that sure belt, but yeah. 02:47:36
But that. So I guess my point then is that that. 02:47:39
If we can have those conversations, we can. 02:47:41
You know, essentially. 02:47:44
Increase the administrative costs of the RDA. 02:47:46
In line with what we actually need to do these. 02:47:49
Functions and processes the right way. 02:47:52
Sure, that'd be great. First of all, we need to know what it is we have. 02:47:54
Yeah, and that's what we're trying to get out right now. Just what do we have? 02:47:57
OK, Josh, you. 02:48:00
Ready to present? Sure. 02:48:03
With your stuff. 02:48:04
Yeah, go ahead. 02:48:04
Let's see here. 02:48:06
So I'll get a digital copy of some of. 02:48:10
Documents I'm going to share, but I printed out a few things for you. We can kind of. 02:48:13
Go over them. There's not necessarily a particular order, but. 02:48:17
I think. 02:48:21
High level. 02:48:22
We'll start with. 02:48:23
The letter. 02:48:25
Form that at the top says RDA fund revenues. 02:48:27
Kind of looks like this. 02:48:31
So as an overview. 02:48:34
This. 02:48:36
Is a document that shows. 02:48:38
The end of year, end of fiscal year. 02:48:41
Finance annual financial report amounts. 02:48:45
That, uh. 02:48:48
That the city reported at the end of each fiscal year specific to the RDA fund, which is Fund 25 in our. 02:48:49
City accounting system. 02:48:59
So this kind of shows you from. 02:49:01
Inception to current day. 02:49:03
We're currently in fiscal year 2026, so fiscal year 2026 hasn't ended yet, so there won't be. 02:49:06
You know these numbers. 02:49:12
There, there won't be numbers for fiscal year 2026 because we haven't. 02:49:14
Reported our annual. 02:49:17
Finances, but. 02:49:19
Year ending fiscal year 2025. 02:49:20
The first box shows. 02:49:23
The revenues. 02:49:25
The second box. 02:49:26
Shows the expenditures and the last box shows. 02:49:28
The changes in fund balance. 02:49:30
These are the main quantities that are reported in our annual. 02:49:33
Finance Statements. 02:49:37
So the first column. 02:49:39
After year. 02:49:41
Shows the annual amount of tax increment. 02:49:42
Revenue from property taxes. 02:49:46
And so that's where that's the main source of our. 02:49:49
Annual income. 02:49:53
For RDA funds is the tax increment finance revenues. So that's what that column is. 02:49:54
And then? 02:50:00
If you move over to the next large box RDA fund expenditures. 02:50:01
The General Government column is where we make. 02:50:07
Most of our annual payments. 02:50:10
Whether it be? 02:50:12
Environmental. 02:50:13
Cleanup costs, reimbursements and other payments to developers for infrastructure. 02:50:15
And then you have our. 02:50:22
Debt interest and debt principal. 02:50:24
And that makes for our annual expenditures. 02:50:27
Some of those years. 02:50:31
Like for example in year 2022. 02:50:32
You'll see that there was a large expenditure. 02:50:35
Like $30 million. 02:50:38
But we didn't receive $30 million in property tax revenue. 02:50:40
That's because in those cases. 02:50:44
We issued bonded debt. 02:50:46
To make those expenses. 02:50:48
So. 02:50:51
Will these numbers be available to the public? 02:50:54
Yeah. 02:50:57
Is there a way we can? 02:50:59
Yeah, let me see if I can get this up. Josh. You can e-mail it to Tony and Tony can. 02:51:01
Projected. 02:51:05
Yeah. 02:51:06
We have computers is is this is the dongle working? 02:51:10
It should come, yeah. Like maybe a different 1 though. 02:51:13
Yeah, there you go. 02:51:25
Well, I mean, I have a couple. 02:51:29
Here if anybody wants a copy. 02:51:31
There we go. 02:51:46
OK. So this is the sheet that we're looking at up on the screen that I printed for some of you. 02:51:54
So that's just kind of a. 02:52:00
A broad overview. This is something I assembled. 02:52:02
When I first came on board so that I had a better picture of. 02:52:07
Where we'd been in the past. 02:52:11
And we were where we were currently and a way to better sort of project into the future. 02:52:13
You know, this is these are very top line amounts because. 02:52:19
These are the basic. 02:52:23
Quantities that were required to report in our annual. 02:52:24
Financial Statements. 02:52:28
And so this just gives you kind of a sense of how much property tax increment. 02:52:30
Have we received each year? 02:52:34
Over the course of the existence of the RDA. 02:52:36
And. 02:52:40
And you know. 02:52:41
What? 02:52:42
Debt payments been. 02:52:43
So the debt payments in the expenditures. 02:52:45
Category. Those are our annual bond payments. 02:52:48
And in the case of some of the big years? 02:52:52
We actually paid off. 02:52:54
Bonds By issuing new bonds, what they call refunding. It's kind of like refinancing to take advantage of better interest rates at 02:52:57
the time. 02:53:01
In the bond market? 02:53:05
So that's just kind of a broad overview of like. 02:53:07
What have we reported on an annual basis for our finances? 02:53:10
What? What does that look like? 02:53:15
And so. 02:53:16
That's that's what that first. 02:53:17
Document is. 02:53:18
But then I wanted to go a little bit further. 02:53:20
And so. 02:53:22
I went back through. 02:53:24
Are you know our accounting system? 02:53:26
To look specifically at RDA expenses since the beginning of the RDA to better categorize and understand. 02:53:31
What specifically? 02:53:39
We spend and have spent money on. 02:53:40
And that so that's where. 02:53:43
The next. 02:53:45
She is the really large one. 02:53:46
Tabloid size that you have. 02:53:48
And I'll share that. 02:53:50
Because it's a really large sheet. 02:53:52
You can't necessarily see it all on screen at the same time. 02:53:55
But were we supposed to receive a copy of that or is that just online? This is the large one that you've got. 02:54:00
It has these printed and tabloid. 02:54:05
Yeah, and a couple copies of somebody else in the public. 02:54:08
Sorry. 02:54:11
Thanks. 02:54:14
Yeah. 02:54:18
So this particular. 02:54:22
Large document is kind of a more detailed version of the first document. 02:54:26
Where it shows overtime. 02:54:31
From the inception. 02:54:33
Our revenues. 02:54:36
Both from the tax increment financing and from interest. 02:54:37
And then the years in which we issued bonds, those are characterized as revenue. 02:54:42
But also. 02:54:47
Debt, I don't have the debt on this particular form because the focus of this. 02:54:48
Sheet that I created was. 02:54:53
To categorize the specific expenses. 02:54:55
And. 02:54:58
And the specific payees that we were working with, I think Councilmember Holdaway might want. 02:54:59
Copies of this. 02:55:07
I got multiple again. 02:55:11
Little package here. 02:55:13
Thank you. 02:55:20
So. 02:55:22
On the large sheet. 02:55:23
You know, you talked about. 02:55:27
Expenses each year and who were reimbursing you know oftentimes like. 02:55:28
Reimbursing different development companies that we've partnered with for the infrastructure and then we pay them back. 02:55:34
For their infrastructure investments. 02:55:39
And then the environmental remediation? 02:55:43
The main section and purpose of this sheet is where if you. 02:55:45
Go down to about the middle of this page, Developer Reimbursements. 02:55:50
So this lists out the main parties that we've contracted with so far. 02:55:55
As an RDA. 02:55:59
And the specific kinds of. 02:56:01
Projects that we're working on with those particular developers, so. 02:56:03
One of the first. 02:56:09
Projects that we began paying on. 02:56:10
Was when we partnered with Anderson Geneva Development for the UVU campus. 02:56:13
Basically what that was was. 02:56:19
At the time. 02:56:21
The RDA contracted. 02:56:22
With Anderson, Geneva. 02:56:25
To. 02:56:27
Basically to donate the land to UVU so that they could develop a campus. 02:56:29
And that would be like an economic driver for the city, was the the thought at the time. 02:56:35
And then what? 02:56:40
The RDA promised to do was to. 02:56:42
Reimburse and pay back. Anderson, Geneva. 02:56:44
A certain quantity. 02:56:47
For that. 02:56:49
Land donation in the total of $5,000,000 that would be paid out overtime based on tax increment revenue. And so that's why the 02:56:50
column in that total is 5000. 02:56:55
And the last payment was made in fiscal year 2022 for that project. 02:57:00
And so that project is. 02:57:05
Complete. At this point, there's no more. 02:57:07
Future expense related to that project. 02:57:09
But that's where the first sections. 02:57:12
Large sections of our. 02:57:15
Annual increment revenue went towards in the early days of the RDA. 02:57:17
The next. 02:57:22
Column is. 02:57:23
The Megaplex development. 02:57:25
In this in this agreement. Anderson, Geneva. 02:57:26
Also agreed to. 02:57:31
Make land available for a commercial development. 02:57:34
And we would. 02:57:37
Pay back. 02:57:39
Basically some of the infrastructure costs and the land. 02:57:41
For. 02:57:45
Them creating the type of commercial development that at the time the RDA. 02:57:46
Wanted them to make under their development agreements. 02:57:51
So that reimbursement? 02:57:55
Is a 25 year reimbursement. 02:57:57
Where? 02:58:01
The RDA pays. 02:58:02
81%. 02:58:04
And there's actually a slight. 02:58:06
There's a schedule where that percent changes in certain years, but for most of the years it's 81%. 02:58:07
In the early years there was a slight different percentage. 02:58:16
And then I think the last year. 02:58:18
It's it goes down by I think just 1%. 02:58:21
Is this from a certain increment or across the entire? 02:58:25
Area. 02:58:28
No, this is specifically increment revenue. 02:58:29
That is generated on the commercial development in and around the megaplex. It's about 18 acres, so the yard area. 02:58:33
No, the yard is to the South where the top golf is at, so it's the north section. So yard A. So yard B. 02:58:44
Yeah, I don't know the exact name of the particular. 02:58:50
Parcel development plan, if you will, but I can, I can pull it up and show you that's OK. So we know it's half of the yard, OK. 02:58:55
The north half of the X development area, correct? 02:59:01
Yeah, it's, but it's not the ex development. So there's two different developments. 02:59:05
In fact, I'm going to be showing the parcel map, so I'll just pull it up now. 02:59:10
So. 02:59:30
This would include the forge perhaps. 02:59:31
No, that's also a different development. But, but I mean, you're in the right spot generally speaking. 02:59:34
It's just. I'll show you the exact. 02:59:40
Parcels. 02:59:42
So if you can see on this map. 02:59:55
This large. 02:59:57
Building on the top right, that's the that's the footprint of the Megaplex Theater itself. 02:59:58
This commercial development. 03:00:04
Runs across this 651 N. 03:00:06
Over here to. 03:00:10
Mill Rd. 03:00:11
And then down. 03:00:12
And then to this line. 03:00:14
Right here. 03:00:15
If you can see my mouse. 03:00:18
So it's this 18 plus acre section right here. 03:00:20
Is what this particular agreement? 03:00:25
Is related to. 03:00:28
And, umm. 03:00:30
It also could be helpful. I have another handout that I'm going to go over more, but if you want to refer to it you can. It's the 03:00:32
one that stapled. 03:00:36
And this is kind of a. 03:00:41
A synopsis of. 03:00:43
Each of the payments that we would make on an annual basis pursuant to each of these contracts that are listed in the in the 03:00:45
spreadsheet. 03:00:49
And so. 03:00:53
If you go down on that. 03:00:55
On that handout, there's a there's a section for the megaplex and it talks about the. 03:00:57
The specific contract for that. 03:01:02
For that payment, so we can kind of go into into those details, but. 03:01:05
The purpose of the large spreadsheet is just sort of a snapshot overview of. 03:01:10
All the different contracts in more of a. 03:01:14
A schedule, if you will. 03:01:17
Whereas the handout goes into some of the specifics about how each contract works. 03:01:19
So, but it's those 18 acres there? 03:01:23
That are part of this megaplex commercial site and then to the South of that. 03:01:26
Where it says X Golf Yard LLC. 03:01:32
That's the yard. 03:01:35
And that's where Topgolf is located and that's considered a separate development and there's a separate reimbursement agreement 03:01:37
for that section. 03:01:40
If that if that helps kind of clarify it. 03:01:47
Yes, thank you. 03:01:49
So for this agreement. 03:01:52
This megaplex. 03:01:54
These are the amounts that we've paid overtime. 03:01:56
And. 03:01:59
Going forward. 03:02:01
This spreadsheet wouldn't fit on one page. It's already a very large page. 03:02:03
But there will be 25 total annual payments. 03:02:08
That overtime will probably total in the neighborhood of $8 million. 03:02:12
But it it's based on. 03:02:17
81% of the increment that is generated off of that specific commercial development. 03:02:20
And so we calculate that each year. 03:02:28
By looking at the increment. 03:02:31
Developed or, you know, generated. 03:02:33
On those specific parcels. 03:02:36
If that makes sense. 03:02:39
So in the beginning. 03:02:41
It was just the megaplex building by itself, and so it would be just. 03:02:43
The incremental that came at that point we just based on that business. 03:02:47
Well, it's based on all the land too, so. 03:02:51
You know if the land is vacant and it's not. 03:02:54
Developed and. 03:02:57
Certainly there would be less property tax revenue. 03:02:58
So the assessed valuation increases as they build more on. That's right. 03:03:01
And that's and that's encountered accounted for in this. 03:03:05
Yes. 03:03:08
So that it creates an incentive this type of contract at that time. 03:03:09
Creates an incentive for the developer. 03:03:13
To actually develop and build out the site quickly. 03:03:15
With commercial development to increase the value so that they can get. 03:03:20
More reimbursement. 03:03:23
Over the course of the. 03:03:27
The contract basically the idea was over the course of 25 years. 03:03:29
Anderson, Geneva would recover the amount of money that they had. 03:03:34
Spent, so to speak, by donating the land for the development. 03:03:38
And they donated this land for the megaplex, this whole yard, this whole. Yeah, it was like an agreement to incentivize. Anderson. 03:03:44
Geneva. 03:03:49
To develop that land by. 03:03:53
You know, giving it to another developer to actually develop. 03:03:57
The commercial sites quickly. 03:04:00
And for our obligation. 03:04:04
Our obligation is to pay based on a formula based on the increment generated on the megaplex site. 03:04:06
So we make those payments each spring. 03:04:13
And we calculate it specifically based on those parcels and what tax increment was collected. 03:04:16
And. 03:04:23
And then we run that through the formula because it's 81% of the tax increment. 03:04:24
OK, so and then on this spreadsheet and others, what I do is I. 03:04:28
I I forecast. 03:04:34
What the land value might be, I mean, we won't know until it's assessed each and every year. So we won't actually know how much 03:04:36
increment we receive. 03:04:40
But we can kind of forecast it. And so that's something that I do each year is update. 03:04:44
The forecast based on. 03:04:50
Year over year increases in valuation to those particular parcels. 03:04:53
OK, so the next. 03:05:04
Entry on this spreadsheet. 03:05:06
Is the flagship development of Water's Edge. 03:05:09
So this agreement. 03:05:14
Is uh. 03:05:16
A reimbursement of the actual infrastructure costs. 03:05:18
Of developing the water's edge development. 03:05:22
So payments on that began in fiscal year 2018. 03:05:25
This contract is a 25 year payback. 03:05:32
Or paying off the actual cost. 03:05:37
And in the case of Water's Edge, the City made. 03:05:40
Large lump sum payments in the form of. 03:05:42
Bond revenue. 03:05:45
To pay off. 03:05:47
A good chunk of that infrastructure. 03:05:48
So in the case of this water's edge reimbursement, we're likely to be complete making payments. 03:05:51
At the end of this fiscal year. 03:05:57
Depending on available. 03:05:59
Funding with with other. 03:06:00
You know, environmental costs, it could be this year, it could be next year, but. 03:06:02
Probably in the next couple of years will be done making. 03:06:06
Payments on the water's edge reimburse and then this year it looks like that reimbursement is at one point. 03:06:09
1.2 yeah. 03:06:15
That the outstanding amount that's. 03:06:17
Accumulated overtime. 03:06:21
Based on payments and interest. 03:06:22
We have about 1.2 left so we could we could make that payment this year, but. 03:06:24
It just depends on. 03:06:29
If we have available. 03:06:31
Funds. 03:06:33
We probably will, but I mean. 03:06:34
The environmental costs that we pay. 03:06:35
Can vary from year to year, so there's a little bit of unpredictability in that. 03:06:38
So yeah. 03:06:42
But we're basically almost done paying off. 03:06:44
The the water's edge infrastructure. 03:06:47
And this would be all the water's edge development. 03:06:50
From starting down. 03:06:53
Close to Center St. up to. 03:06:54
800 N. 03:06:57
Yeah. So that's all of the infrastructure that. 03:06:59
That they were required. 03:07:02
To install per their development agreement. 03:07:05
Starting back in, well, I don't know what year they inked it. 03:07:08
But it was, it's basically there was a development agreement. 03:07:11
Agreement that the RDA would reimburse the the infrastructure. 03:07:14
Vineyard Properties of Utah is the next one on this list. 03:07:21
So that's. 03:07:24
A reimbursement. 03:07:26
For the road ext of 1750 N. 03:07:28
With this particular agreement, it's 7 equal payments of $232,000. 03:07:32
So that's what those payments are that began in fiscal year 2022. 03:07:38
And there'll be 7 payments. And so our last payment will be fiscal year 2028. 03:07:43
In fact. 03:07:52
Maybe while we're going through this, it might be helpful if you want to look at the other handout, the one that's stapled. 03:07:53
Because I've got. 03:07:59
More, you know, just kind of details about. 03:08:01
The payment calculation of each of these contracts. 03:08:04
So in the case of Vineyard properties of Utah. 03:08:08
1750 N. 03:08:11
That was contracted in 2020. 03:08:13
The seven payments. 03:08:16
232,000 at 7 years. Our last payment will be in fiscal year 2028. 03:08:17
OK. Then. Any questions on the Vineyard properties of Utah one? 03:08:33
Now we get to the X development one. 03:08:38
So. 03:08:41
Ex. Development and 50 mil are two different development companies. 03:08:42
That together. 03:08:48
Develop the yard. 03:08:50
Which is where the top golf is. That's the. 03:08:52
The section to the South of the megaplex we were talking about earlier. 03:08:54
So that entire commercial development? 03:08:58
Under this agreement is what we call the yard. 03:09:01
And that includes the Top Golf facility itself and all the other commercial sites around it. 03:09:04
That are all there in that section South of the megaplex. 03:09:10
So in this case, we pay, we pay it, we make a payment. 03:09:14
Each to X development and 50 mil. There's two different agreements. 03:09:18
One for each. 03:09:22
Each agreement is a little bit different. There were some. 03:09:24
Early payments. 03:09:27
That were. 03:09:29
That were made at the beginning. 03:09:31
In the case of 1. 03:09:32
In the case of the Ex Development agreement. 03:09:34
This is. 03:09:37
37 1/2%. 03:09:38
Of the tax increment finance revenue. 03:09:40
And if you look on. 03:09:46
The three page handout with the staple. 03:09:47
This is the ex development Topgolf the yard. 03:09:51
So that was contracted in 2022. 03:09:56
And the purpose was to pay off the infrastructure and improvements for the yard. 03:09:58
And in this case, it's 37 1/2% of what's. 03:10:04
Generated on the property. 03:10:07
And there are 12 years of payments or until. 03:10:10
A total of 790,000 has been paid back. 03:10:15
Because there was a provision in the contract to make an earlier payment of $500,000 at the outset. 03:10:19
Which you can see was made in fiscal year 2022 on this spreadsheet. 03:10:27
There's not as much left to pay to get to the. 03:10:32
790,000 total. 03:10:35
So. 03:10:38
Based on that payment schedule. 03:10:39
Will be. 03:10:42
Finished. 03:10:43
Paying. 03:10:44
Likely in the next two fiscal years. 03:10:45
After last year's payment of. 03:10:48
290 or of 106,000. 03:10:50
There's only 290,000 remaining on the contract. 03:10:54
So we'll pay. 03:10:59
A payment this year of somewhere around $100,000 like. 03:11:00
Like it was last year. 03:11:04
And again, that's. 03:11:07
There's a formula based on the actual increment produced on that site. 03:11:08
But then. 03:11:12
That means that. 03:11:13
Next fiscal year, fiscal year 2027, there will be less than $100,000 to pay. 03:11:14
On that agreement. 03:11:20
So that will likely be our last year. 03:11:21
Because we'll have paid the the total 790,000. 03:11:24
Now the companion agreement with 50 mil. 03:11:28
Is on page two of the three page handout. 03:11:33
So that's the next one on this spreadsheet. 03:11:37
This is also a formula payment. 03:11:40
Of 62 1/2 percent. 03:11:42
Of the. 03:11:45
Tax increment finance revenue generated on the site. 03:11:45
This one is also. 03:11:52
Limited to a 12 year payout. 03:11:53
Or until $3.7 million total is paid. 03:11:56
At the end of last fiscal year, there's about $3.1 million remaining. 03:12:02
So that's the Max that we would pay. 03:12:07
Because we pay up to a maximum amount. 03:12:10
Last year's payment was $177,000. 03:12:12
So right now there are still some vacancies in terms of that. 03:12:17
Commercial development. 03:12:21
So it's. 03:12:22
Not quite generating enough tax increment finance revenue. 03:12:24
To pay the full 3.7 million in time. 03:12:28
But it's pretty close. 03:12:32
So that's kind of an example of how the incentive structure with the developer. 03:12:34
Was designed to incentivize the developer to develop quickly if they wanted to get. 03:12:39
The full reimbursement. 03:12:45
Of the total amount that they spent on the infrastructure. 03:12:47
And with that 12 year cap? 03:12:52
If you will. 03:12:54
That 12 year time horizon? 03:12:56
Um, that creates an incentive for them to. 03:13:00
Develop quickly. 03:13:03
Another provision in this particular contract with 50 mil. 03:13:04
Is the annual. 03:13:08
Payment is. 03:13:10
Capped at $300,000 a year. 03:13:11
Over the course of the 12 years. 03:13:14
And like I said, right now. 03:13:17
The annual payment. 03:13:19
Is 177,000 based on? 03:13:21
Last. 03:13:24
Tax increment. 03:13:26
In the formula, so the projected completion of payments on that would be fiscal year 2036. 03:13:27
Each of those 3 agreements, the big ones that we just talked about 50 mil. 03:13:36
X development. 03:13:41
The two vineyard properties of Utah and then the next one megaplex on this three page handout. Each of those are paid in the 03:13:44
spring. 03:13:47
We receive our annual tax increment. 03:13:52
Revenue in January. 03:13:54
And so once we receive the actual tax increment, then we have to calculate. 03:13:57
You know, were these parcels paid? 03:14:01
Did they collect tax? 03:14:04
You know the tax. 03:14:05
Property tax from each parcel. 03:14:06
What was the amount? 03:14:09
Of each parcel. 03:14:11
And what was the actual total increment collected by the county? 03:14:13
And then we do those calculations. 03:14:18
And then determine how much the payment amount is and then we make these payments in the spring of each year because we've. 03:14:21
Receive the revenue in January. 03:14:27
And so do you do all that? Do you do the calculations and prepare that? And yeah. 03:14:29
Yep, I do the calculations and then I send it to accounting. 03:14:33
And then? 03:14:37
And then the mayor. 03:14:39
Signs off. 03:14:40
And then we cut the checks. 03:14:41
In some cases we get invoiced because the contract is pretty clear. 03:14:44
Like in the case of Vineyard. 03:14:48
Vineyard Properties of Utah. 03:14:49
Those are flat. 03:14:52
Contracted amounts that we pay each year. We pay the exact same amount. Seven annual equal payments. 03:14:53
But in the case of X development. 03:14:59
50 mil. 03:15:02
And Megaplex. 03:15:03
It's based on a formula. 03:15:04
As a share of increment. 03:15:06
All right, the next one. 03:15:12
On the spreadsheet is Edge Homes. 03:15:16
So this was an infrastructure reimbursement? 03:15:19
To the developer of Edge homes for the Lakefront Park. 03:15:23
And our last payment was last fiscal year. 03:15:28
That one, actually. 03:15:32
Was pursuant to a settlement. 03:15:34
There were some disagreements about. 03:15:38
The nature of the park and the Lake Shore. 03:15:41
And so then there was a settlement with the developer to basically call it good. 03:15:45
Essentially, there were some improvements that weren't. 03:15:50
That weren't actually done by the developer, so we weren't going to pay them back. We were going to take on the project ourselves. 03:15:54
And so we made our last payment on that particular agreement in 2025. 03:16:01
For the lakefront park. 03:16:06
And so there's no future payments on that. 03:16:07
Particular agreement. 03:16:09
The next one on the spreadsheet is the Vineyard Properties of Utah for 1600 N. 03:16:13
This is another road Ext. 03:16:17
In kind of the north part of the. 03:16:21
The city near the Geneva Park. 03:16:23
Development. Uh. 03:16:25
This is 1 where there are 7 equal payments. 03:16:27
Of $253,000. 03:16:32
The first payment begins this year. 03:16:36
And so the last payment. 03:16:39
For that particular road, Ext. 03:16:41
Will be in 2032. 03:16:44
And this is based upon just that property. 03:16:48
No, this is. 03:16:51
Just a. 03:16:52
Flat reimbursement for the road ext I see not based on any particular. 03:16:54
It's based on the cost of the road. 03:17:00
So it was a contract with. 03:17:03
The with Martin Snow to. 03:17:05
You know, front the cost. 03:17:08
And and do the road ext. 03:17:10
And then it would be a payback of these seven payments. 03:17:13
OK. 03:17:16
OK, the next one on the spreadsheet. 03:17:23
Is. 03:17:28
Cottonwood, Geneva. 03:17:30
This is for the Forge. 03:17:31
You'd mentioned the forge earlier. 03:17:33
This agreement. 03:17:36
We're not making current payments on because the development hasn't occur. 03:17:38
Occurred and so there were some provisions to make some reimbursement payments early on back in. 03:17:43
2017 and 2018. 03:17:49
With a small payment made in 2020. 03:17:51
But because the forge has not yet developed and is not generating increment. 03:17:54
That agreement right now is. 03:18:00
Essentially dormant and we're not making payments because it hasn't. 03:18:02
Hasn't been developed yet. 03:18:06
When you say the. 03:18:09
They're not making payments, but they're still. 03:18:11
Frozen in their lower tax rate of. 03:18:13
2011, right? 03:18:15
What do you mean frozen in the tax rate? 03:18:19
So like. 03:18:21
Can we, I think point of confusion that's going to happen here with the way that that was phrased. 03:18:22
They still pay property taxes, right? They still pay. They locked into the lower rates, but it's, it's we're not making payments, 03:18:27
reimbursement payments because there's been no development. 03:18:32
Right. So like they locked in at the 2011 rate, no development has happened? 03:18:37
We clean the property. 03:18:42
So what I'm? 03:18:44
Confused what you mean by locked in at the lower rate? 03:18:45
So the. 03:18:48
Tax rate. 03:18:50
Was umm. 03:18:51
Locked in at 2011 rates, right? No. 03:18:52
So they are paying. Is it that property is paying? 03:18:55
Yeah, every single parcel of property. 03:18:58
In the entire state. 03:19:02
Right. But then they get reimbursed on that section. Well, but they're not getting reimbursed because there hasn't been any 03:19:03
development. 03:19:06
So who keeps that money? 03:19:09
Who keeps what money? 03:19:11
There is no RDA money for that site because it hasn't been triggered yet. 03:19:13
So right now. 03:19:18
They own property. 03:19:19
Right. They pay the full tax rate that everybody else pays for that property 2020. 03:19:20
620, yeah, yes. That doesn't go through the TIF process. It doesn't go through TIF process. All of that goes to the general fund 03:19:25
of all the taxing industries. 03:19:29
Yeah, so all the taxing entities when it does. 03:19:33
It'll go back to the 2011 rate. 03:19:36
No, when it gets triggered, it's at the rate when it gets triggered, correct? 03:19:39
Yeah. So, so there's no changing to the tax rate, I think. 03:19:43
Maybe were. 03:19:47
We're sort of overlapping the concept of base tax revenue to the taxing entities plus their 25% of the increment with the rate 03:19:48
itself. They'll always pay the full tax rate of that given year. 03:19:54
And then everyone pays the full tax. Everyone always pays the full taxes, right? And then what the taxing entities receive? 03:20:02
Is they receive. 03:20:08
The base tax revenue from the base year value. 03:20:11
100% of that. 03:20:16
Right. That's kind of a lock in concept I think you're talking about? 03:20:17
Plus 25% of the increment and the RDA received 75% of the increment. 03:20:21
And that's. 03:20:26
And that base level is always based on the 2011 valuation, the 2005 valuation, 2005 valuation, that's the base year. 03:20:27
OK. So if it's the 2000, so then what happened since we're not reimbursing, what's happening with that? 03:20:35
So what's happening right now is the owner of the property is paying full property taxes based on. 03:20:41
Current. 03:20:46
Market value of the land and the current tax rates. 03:20:47
But there's no increment collection, so right now taxing entities are receiving 100%. 03:20:51
You know of all of that tax? 03:20:56
So it doesn't come into the RDA at all? Doesn't come into the RDA at all. 03:20:58
And then when it triggers. 03:21:01
Yep, what happened? So then when it triggers? 03:21:03
All the taxes are still collected at whatever the current rates are and whatever the full market value is, right? 03:21:06
But then the RDA receives revenue that is equivalent to 75% of the increment, right? So that's where you know the base value. 03:21:12
On that site, you know, you could kind of. 03:21:21
Rule of thumb, think about it like. 03:21:24
Somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 an acre. 03:21:26
Is the base value. 03:21:29
If the property, once it's developed, is worth. 03:21:30
You know, $2,000,000 an acre. 03:21:33
Then you can kind of do just a just a quick. 03:21:35
Kind of back of the napkin estimate on the incremental value would be let's say $2,000,000 an acre minus $50,000 an acre. 03:21:38
25% of the revenue from that value goes to the taxing entities, 75% goes to the RDA. 03:21:44
And then that RDA revenue? 03:21:51
Can be used to reimburse. 03:21:53
The developer on whatever. 03:21:56
Expenses they had based on whatever the agreement says. So it's as if the RDA doesn't exist on that specific parcel until it is 03:21:58
triggered. That's right. 03:22:03
And then but when it is. 03:22:07
What a windfall because they locked in it. 03:22:10
05. 03:22:12
Well, for the RDA, it's a windfall for the RDA and the city actually loses the tax revenue then because it goes to the RDA. 03:22:14
Yeah, right. 03:22:21
And then you hope that your sales tax or whatever you've. 03:22:23
Developed in that area. 03:22:26
Compensates for the loss, so is it financially better that they trigger later or earlier? 03:22:28
Like which one is? I mean it's a big difference, so. 03:22:33
There's no benefit. 03:22:37
To delaying. 03:22:39
The development. 03:22:41
For the purpose of somehow. 03:22:43
Gaining an advantage on the timing of the triggering. 03:22:45
The best thing for basically everybody? 03:22:49
Is to immediately develop the land into something valuable and immediately trigger it, right? 03:22:52
And when they sit on it and it's undeveloped. 03:22:57
They're paying property taxes on fallow land that's getting more valuable every year. They don't do anything because the market. 03:22:59
Is making that land more valuable as there's more development around it? 03:23:06
Right the. 03:23:10
Going back to the to the. 03:23:13
Get to the microphone. 03:23:15
Sorry, sorry. 03:23:16
Going back to kind of the issue that we're facing. 03:23:18
Is that? 03:23:21
If we. 03:23:22
If everything triggers at once. 03:23:23
Yep, this would. 03:23:25
Exponentially. 03:23:28
Compound. 03:23:29
A fundamental problem we already. 03:23:30
Have yes. 03:23:33
Does that make yes, you guys understand kind of the principle behind that? 03:23:35
So we have to be very cautious about. 03:23:38
When we trigger. 03:23:42
And build out of. 03:23:44
Our modeling just to make sure that we are prepared for a trigger, right? 03:23:45
Yep, because. 03:23:48
Because we lose that 75%. 03:23:50
Correct. 03:23:53
But. 03:23:54
But. 03:23:55
Looking at the numbers. 03:23:57
It's almost like you need a slowdown. 03:23:58
Right, because you don't. 03:24:01
Yeah, you kind of want the cascading. 03:24:03
You know where it's like some years they, you know, trigger something and then some years you trigger something, right? 03:24:04
And then that's good on the back end because then it. 03:24:09
It expires and expires. Expires expires, yeah. 03:24:12
And so far it's actually. 03:24:15
Followed that pretty well. 03:24:17
And so in a way. 03:24:18
It's good that they haven't developed the site. 03:24:19
Right away. 03:24:22
Because other things are being triggered and will be triggered and then that'll get developed and that will get triggered but. 03:24:24
I you know the downside is you don't have an economic engine with the forge being fully developed yet, right? 03:24:30
Yeah, OK. 03:24:37
So it does kind of cut both ways, but. 03:24:39
The the phasing and stepping of the triggering process every year. 03:24:42
I think is going to be. 03:24:47
Better in the long run. 03:24:49
Another thing to consider and think about with the triggering events and the impact on the city. 03:24:50
Is that anything that you trigger for increment? 03:24:56
The value. 03:24:59
Of. 03:25:01
The increment. 03:25:02
Nets against new growth? 03:25:03
So. 03:25:06
If you have new growth happening in other parts of the city. 03:25:07
That can reduce the. 03:25:14
Impact. 03:25:16
Of those parcels being taken out. 03:25:17
Of. 03:25:20
The tax base of the city and being put into incremental collection. 03:25:21
So if you. 03:25:26
Trigger everything at once. 03:25:27
That Nets against all the new growth. 03:25:29
But yeah, so. 03:25:33
Having new growth in adjacent areas would also be ideal and that was I think one of the visions is that development within this 03:25:35
RDA zone generally. 03:25:40
I would give rise to adjacent development that's outside of the RDA footprint. 03:25:45
Which would kind of help buoy the city when the city lost. 03:25:52
The value if you will. 03:25:57
Of those areas that are triggered. 03:25:58
It's kind of like, I mean, it's very much a moving. 03:26:01
Moving target right? 03:26:04
OK, so that's the agreement for Cottonwood, Geneva and the forge? 03:26:06
There's no payments being made. 03:26:11
Because. 03:26:12
The development is not complete. 03:26:13
Any questions about that one? 03:26:16
All right, the next one on the spreadsheet. 03:26:19
Is uh. 03:26:22
The flagship development of Lakefront. 03:26:22
That one on the handout is on the last page called Future Obligations. 03:26:28
Because we haven't paid on it yet. 03:26:34
This one is going to be paid on. 03:26:36
This year and into the future. 03:26:39
So for this particular payment. 03:26:42
On the handout, it's called Flagship Anderson Geneva Lakefront faced. 03:26:46
5B. 03:26:50
So we have a contract, the land donation and development agreement for Lake. 03:26:54
Promenade as well as the participation Agreement. 03:26:59
For the. 03:27:03
Vineyard downtown. 03:27:04
And in that contract? 03:27:07
They divide. 03:27:09
The downtown development into two different pieces. 03:27:11
What's called Phase 5A and Phase 5B. 03:27:16
This particular. 03:27:19
Phase is actually in that contract called 5B. 03:27:21
We labeled it 5A because it was the first one to trigger but. 03:27:25
We may update the names just so that they they match. 03:27:28
But this is the lakefront. 03:27:31
Residential development that we're specifically talking about. 03:27:33
As a part of. 03:27:36
The agreement for the Downtown Vineyard development and Lake Promenade development. 03:27:38
What this contract does is reimburse the developer, similar to Water's Edge. 03:27:44
For the infrastructure and improvements. 03:27:48
For that. 03:27:50
Residential development. 03:27:52
And the lake promenade development. 03:27:54
The way the payment is calculated. 03:27:56
Is it's a pass through of 100% of the tax increment generated on the property. 03:27:58
Minus up to. 03:28:03
6% of the admin. 03:28:05
And a housing allocation. 03:28:07
If we use the housing allocation under state law. 03:28:09
Last year we didn't make a payment on this contract because. 03:28:12
Those parcels were not yet triggered. 03:28:15
They triggered. 03:28:18
In tax year 2025. 03:28:19
Which is. 03:28:21
Meaning our fiscal year 2026 revenue. 03:28:22
So right now. 03:28:26
On that. 03:28:27
Parcel we've collected about 1.1 or on that. 03:28:29
Section $1.1 million in tax increment finance revenue. 03:28:33
For that section. 03:28:38
Which means that our payment this year. 03:28:40
For that. 03:28:42
Development. 03:28:43
Would range from about $820,000 to just over $1,000,000. 03:28:44
For fiscal year 2026. 03:28:49
For that particular payment will make payments for 25 years. 03:28:51
Or until the infrastructure costs are fully reimbursed, so. 03:28:55
Project that will be done making those payments. 03:29:00
In fiscal year 2051 with our last payment in the 25th year of that agreement. 03:29:03
The next line on. 03:29:10
The spreadsheet is for the HTRZ. 03:29:12
Increment. 03:29:15
For downtown. 03:29:17
So. 03:29:19
This one. 03:29:19
In also the same land donation and development agreement for Lake Promenade. 03:29:21
And uh. 03:29:26
Pursuant to the HTRZ approval. 03:29:27
And the participation agreement. 03:29:30
Related to the HTRZ development. 03:29:32
We reimburse the developer for infrastructure and improvements. 03:29:35
It's 100% tax increment generated on the property minus the admin and housing allocations. 03:29:38
We did not make a payment last year. We won't make a payment this year. 03:29:44
But per the contract. 03:29:48
We have to trigger those parcels for collection. 03:29:49
Starting. 03:29:54
With tax collection year 2028, which means we'll make our first payment in fiscal year 2029. 03:29:55
Will make 25. 03:30:03
Years of payments. 03:30:04
Until we reach 25 years or the infrastructure costs are fully reimbursed. So our last payment would be fiscal year 2053. 03:30:07
The last one on the spreadsheet. 03:30:16
And also the last one on the handout. 03:30:17
Is the phase five downtown. 03:30:20
So this is also untriggered like the previous one. 03:30:24
And this is the traditional. 03:30:28
Tax increment. 03:30:31
Not the HTRZ tax increment. 03:30:32
And it won't begin until 2054. 03:30:34
And it will go for 25 years with the last payment in 2079. So that one's a ways out in the future. 03:30:37
Right now, and in fact by the time that one triggers. 03:30:44
Most of the rest of the sites that are currently. 03:30:47
In increment collection will have expired. 03:30:50
And then? 03:30:54
That's it for payments that we've made to developers in the past and that we anticipate making. 03:30:56
In the near future. 03:31:02
And this. 03:31:06
This data in this spreadsheet came from looking at. 03:31:07
The last 10 plus years. 03:31:10
Of our annual finance reports. 03:31:13
Our annual RDA reports and our financial accounting. 03:31:16
System umm. 03:31:20
So I kind of assembled this to give us a snapshot. 03:31:22
Of how much we've spent to date and on what particular projects and to whom. 03:31:25
The last section of the spreadsheet has to do with the environmental remediation projects. 03:31:31
We made. 03:31:37
Some payments. 03:31:38
To US Steel back in 2019. 03:31:39
Our annual RDA reports talk about site improvements from 2013 to about. 03:31:44
2018, which is what those are. 03:31:51
But then other than that. 03:31:53
Our most common environmental remediation payments are all made to Anderson, Geneva. 03:31:55
On an annual basis, based on their actual expenses for environmental remediation. 03:32:01
In the three page handout. 03:32:06
On page 2. 03:32:09
I have a section there for the Anderson Geneva project Environmental Remediation. 03:32:13
This is. 03:32:19
This the synopsis of our reimbursement for our actual remediation costs. 03:32:21
And so the payment calculation on that is it's the actual costs incurred. 03:32:27
For the ongoing environmental remediation capped. 03:32:31
By the actual tax increment collections. 03:32:33
In the whole RDA site. 03:32:37
Last year we paid 1.1 million towards environmental remediation. 03:32:39
That amount is likely to go up because some of the. 03:32:44
Projects have sort of increased in. 03:32:47
Their speed, if you will, in terms of the actual amount of work being done. 03:32:50
Largely on the east side. 03:32:55
Of Geneva. 03:32:58
We have multiple agreements that govern. 03:33:00
The environmental remediation starting in 2017. 03:33:03
Related to the the Camus to US Steel. 03:33:07
To the oil reclamation area. 03:33:10
Repository of material grading storm drain. 03:33:14
The most recent contract is the East Side Mill Property Remediation Agreement from 2023. 03:33:20
And that those agreements just govern all the different. 03:33:26
Environmental remediation work that's being done by Anderson Geneva Project Management, which is their LLC that's specific for 03:33:29
environmental remediation work that's different than Anderson. 03:33:35
Or Geneva Anderson. 03:33:41
Development. Uh. 03:33:43
So that three page handout. 03:33:46
Basically covers. 03:33:48
All of our. 03:33:50
Current and future obligations that happen on an annual basis. 03:33:51
And kind of what contracts govern them? 03:33:56
How much? 03:33:59
We pay how we calculate the payments. 03:34:00
Any questions about? 03:34:05
The spreadsheet. 03:34:07
Were the three page. 03:34:10
Overview of the different annual. 03:34:12
Contracted payments. 03:34:14
Just have a quick question, do you know how much has been allocated into the housing? 03:34:17
In total, do you have that breakdown and then whether it's been spent? 03:34:21
Yeah, so. 03:34:25
Housing was a. 03:34:28
Part of the program before. 03:34:29
I got here. 03:34:30
I'm relatively new myself. 03:34:31
If you look in the center of the spreadsheet under all expenses where it says low moderate housing fund. 03:34:35
Those are the amounts that were spent. 03:34:42
For housing. 03:34:44
Up until 20/19. 03:34:48
There were some state law changes about how. 03:34:50
The housing allocation works that. 03:34:53
Went into effect when those. 03:34:56
Where you see there's no more amounts. 03:34:58
And that's because state law changed when it came to the Housing Allocation 2020. 03:35:01
Umm. 03:35:12
We also make bond payments. 03:35:14
So above the developer reimbursements. 03:35:17
Is. 03:35:20
A section of the bond payments we make each year, so on an annual basis. 03:35:21
We've been spending recently. 03:35:26
Just under $7,000,000 in bond payments. 03:35:29
And somewhere in the neighborhood of. 03:35:33
$4 million in infrastructure reimbursements. 03:35:35
For right around. 03:35:40
10 to $11 million a year. 03:35:41
Next year. 03:35:45
Well, this fiscal year 2026. 03:35:46
Our increment revenue is the last column. 03:35:49
Well, second to last column in this chart. 03:35:52
$13.7 million. 03:35:55
The reason that's. 03:35:58
Larger than last year's amount of 9.9 million is because of the triggering of. 03:36:00
Lakefront, uh. 03:36:06
And some of the other. 03:36:07
Parcels in the city. 03:36:09
That are part of water's edge. 03:36:12
So there was a we triggered two different. 03:36:14
Sections of phases. 03:36:17
Last tax collection year. 03:36:19
And so. 03:36:22
That's largely why the revenue went up. 03:36:24
Otherwise it would be more. 03:36:27
More of like a gentle increase from just potential. 03:36:29
Increases in values or something like that. 03:36:33
And then, so keep in mind though, starting this year, we have an annual payment of. 03:36:35
A little over $1,000,000 for. 03:36:40
That lakefront reimbursement. 03:36:42
Good question. 03:36:52
Any others? 03:36:53
Yeah. Any other questions for Josh? 03:36:55
See, I've got. 03:36:58
I just want to say, well, thank you very much. 03:37:02
Been very helpful. 03:37:03
Yeah, uh. 03:37:04
I will. 03:37:07
Say so. 03:37:07
You were talking about. 03:37:09
Kind of some of the concerns related to the audit. 03:37:10
Review. 03:37:13
And. 03:37:14
When it comes, so when it comes to the payments that we make. 03:37:16
All of these payments are largely formulaic. 03:37:20
Or pursuant to very specific contracted amounts. 03:37:23
There's not a lot of discretion in the payments. 03:37:27
To developers in this handout. 03:37:30
The one. 03:37:33
Payment. 03:37:34
For these contracts for environmental remediation though is based on the actual expenses. 03:37:35
Documented by Anderson, Geneva. 03:37:41
What they call? 03:37:44
Anderson Geneva Project manager, which is the LLC they do all the environmental work through. 03:37:45
What the process we go through there is they send us. 03:37:51
An invoice, and on the invoice they outline all the different types of expenses that they incurred. 03:37:56
So for example. 03:38:03
There are fees for. 03:38:04
Various kinds of federal environmental compliance under Rickrap. 03:38:08
And there are environmental engineering fees, there's water testing fees, water well testing fees. 03:38:12
There's fees for grading material. 03:38:19
There's fees for. 03:38:24
Things related to the Camus. 03:38:26
In terms of annual? 03:38:28
You know, umm. 03:38:30
Fees to the state or to the federal government for environmental monitoring and different things like that. So Anderson project. 03:38:32
Anderson, Geneva project manager. 03:38:39
They handle, they make all those expenses. 03:38:41
And then they bill us what they paid, so they give us an invoice listing out those types of payments. 03:38:45
And then? 03:38:51
Depending on the type of. 03:38:52
Expense that it was other backup documentation like the invoices that they received. 03:38:54
From their subcontractors. 03:38:59
Or. 03:39:01
Umm, copies of the. 03:39:02
You know the the payments that they made, the checks, etc like that so. 03:39:05
So that's how we make. 03:39:10
Those payments? 03:39:11
The concern from the auditor was that. 03:39:13
We don't have as a city. 03:39:15
Into. 03:39:19
Anderson Geneva's contracts with their subcontractors. 03:39:20
Related to the expenses that they're making. 03:39:24
So. 03:39:27
When you talked about the. 03:39:28
The multiplier. 03:39:30
The multiplier is how AE. 03:39:31
Bills. Anderson, Geneva. 03:39:34
AE Com's big. 03:39:37
Global engineering company. They specialize in a variety of things, but among them environmental engineering. 03:39:38
They are the contracted party by US Steel. 03:39:44
All around the country and and perhaps the world. 03:39:47
To do certain kinds of environmental work. 03:39:50
For US Steel. 03:39:53
So when Anderson Geneva inherits a part of the legal obligation. 03:39:55
For environmental compliance. 03:40:01
They have to use that contracted company AECOM. 03:40:04
For those services. 03:40:08
And so they're simply paying AECOM, those environmental engineering fees that they have been charged. 03:40:09
Now AE Com has an agreement with US Steel. 03:40:15
To provide. 03:40:19
Their price. 03:40:20
Based on a multiplier. 03:40:22
Of. 03:40:24
The specific staff that AECOM dedicates to each job. So like for example, if you think about. 03:40:25
When it comes to overhead for an organization. 03:40:34
You oftentimes. 03:40:37
Like if you go to a. 03:40:39
An Autobot, An auto shop, You're going to get charged a labor rate. 03:40:40
You know, maybe the labor rate is $150.00 an hour. 03:40:43
So if you go to an auto shop. 03:40:47
And they say. 03:40:50
You know this job was two hours. 03:40:51
We charge you $150.00 an hour labor rate. 03:40:53
So it's a $300.00 bill. 03:40:56
Well, the mechanic's not getting paid $150.00 an hour. 03:40:58
The mechanic is getting paid something. 03:41:02
And they have a labor rate which is their price to their consumer or customer and that labor rate. 03:41:04
Covers their. 03:41:11
Other. 03:41:13
Sort of overhead and company expenses. 03:41:14
Related to delivering that service. 03:41:18
Among those expenses? 03:41:20
Is the labor itself where they pay their auto mechanic a certain amount an hour? 03:41:22
But they are charging you the customer. 03:41:27
More. 03:41:29
For that labor. 03:41:30
That's how AECOM is charging their services. 03:41:31
But because they have an agreement with US Steel. 03:41:35
To be transparent about what that is. 03:41:38
When we receive copies of what Anderson Geneva has paid AECOM. 03:41:40
It includes in the AE COM invoice. 03:41:46
What those? 03:41:50
Multipliers are for the labor that AECOM is charging Anderson, Geneva, for. 03:41:51
So, uh. 03:41:57
And sort of to be. 03:41:58
Clear about the distinction? We're not. 03:42:00
Paying AE com. 03:42:02
We don't have a contract with AECOM. 03:42:04
Were simply reimbursing Anderson, Geneva. 03:42:07
For their cost that they had to pay to AECOM. 03:42:09
And that's pursuant to agreements they inherited, related largely to US Steels obligations. 03:42:13
And so there's not a lot of. 03:42:20
Flexibility there. 03:42:22
And so. 03:42:25
The concern from the auditor is that. 03:42:26
We as an RDA are not. 03:42:28
Reviewing the contracts that Geneva. 03:42:31
Has with their subcontractors. 03:42:34
And I don't think it's a problem to review those contractors. 03:42:36
Or those contracts, Anderson, Geneva said. They'd be happy to provide more of that information. That's something we could be more 03:42:39
involved in, but historically it hasn't been. 03:42:45
And I and I think that's largely where the concern came in. 03:42:50
Um, so. 03:42:54
Some of those contracts are very old. 03:42:57
Which I've been explained to that it's somewhat of a benefit to us because some of the pricing. 03:43:00
That, Anderson, Geneva is getting. 03:43:08
Is is a pretty good price? 03:43:09
Because they've had a long standing agreement with some of their subcontractors doing some of the environmental work. 03:43:12
Some of the benefit there is that. 03:43:18
Like those companies that they've been working with for a long time? 03:43:20
They have some predictability about the work overtime and so. 03:43:25
They weren't charging as much as they might if it was a very short term job. 03:43:31
Um, so, but those contracts, a lot of them were. 03:43:36
Originally when they were entered into by Anderson, Geneva. 03:43:40
The city was involved like public works and the city engineer at the time. This is going back like 10 years. 03:43:45
Ago, they reviewed those contracts. 03:43:51
They didn't necessarily have a decision. 03:43:54
Of whether or not to enter into those contracts, because again, this is Anderson Geneva entering into these contracts, but they 03:43:56
were collaborating with the city and giving the city awareness about the pricing at that time. 03:44:02
So when I came in, I inherited the practice of. 03:44:08
You review the invoices. 03:44:11
You match up. 03:44:12
The expenses that they had to the amount you're being invoiced and you say OK. 03:44:13
We're being invoiced for. 03:44:18
You know $75,000. 03:44:19
These are. 03:44:21
The expenses Anderson, Geneva made. 03:44:22
And then we. 03:44:24
Pay them. And so the accounting team will. 03:44:25
You know, process a payment. 03:44:28
Will review and match the invoice to what they gave us for backup documentation, but we were not going any further to say. 03:44:29
What Anderson, Geneva, we want to see your contracts with those subcontractors and that's I think what the feedback of the auditor 03:44:36
was. 03:44:39
That helps a deal. 03:44:46
Another question question. Any other questions or comments? 03:44:49
For Josh. 03:44:52
Excuse me, I have. 03:44:56
So how can we know? 03:44:57
How much? 03:44:59
Money is available for. 03:45:00
For use in the RDA if we wanted to, for example. 03:45:02
We wanted to, you know, hire the small staff to look into that for a while or just even to hire the auditor to go back and take a 03:45:05
look at those things and and pursue those those contracts. 03:45:10
Anderson, Geneva has. 03:45:15
What would what's available for that and how do we? 03:45:17
Tap into it and what we have to do a resolution for it? Do we have to? 03:45:21
Of a budget amendment and a public hearing and all that sort of stuff. How does that work? 03:45:25
Yes, so I think. 03:45:30
We could build some of that into a budget amendment. 03:45:31
We can look at our. 03:45:35
Our budget. So I did. I did. 03:45:37
Print out for each of you a handout which is. 03:45:38
The fiscal year. 03:45:41
2026 Budget. 03:45:43
This is the budget that was adopted. 03:45:46
The tentative budget that was adopted last June in June of 2025 that governs this current fiscal year. 03:45:48
Ending in June of 2026. 03:45:55
So. 03:45:59
We are going to have to do a budget amendment at some point in the near future, generally. 03:46:01
Before the end of the fiscal year is when we would do that, but we could do that sooner rather than later if you'd like. 03:46:07
Because one of the things will for sure have to adjust is the actual revenue we received for property tax increment, so. 03:46:14
We estimated that we would get 12.6 million. 03:46:20
As I showed you in the spreadsheet. 03:46:23
We ended up. 03:46:25
With 13.7 million. 03:46:26
And that's just based on what will the total value be of the recently triggered parcels? It's hard to know until they're actually 03:46:30
triggered and the tax increment begins collecting. 03:46:35
But again, we just have to look at the amounts that we are obligated to spend on an annual basis, like some of those pass through 03:46:42
contracts where some of those sections there's 100% increment reimbursement. 03:46:47
But yeah, I think. 03:46:54
We could. We could look at. 03:46:55
Our existing line items for contract services. 03:46:56
And. 03:47:02
And what our planned expenses are and see if there's available funding in which case. 03:47:03
It wouldn't necessarily require a budget amendment. 03:47:08
But if we thought that we were going to change the total amount for contract services, we. 03:47:10
We would probably want to do a budget amendment at some point before the end of the fiscal year. 03:47:15
Josh, one of the things that. 03:47:20
Was being talked about. 03:47:22
Before you. You walked in today. 03:47:24
And something that we had brought up in previous meetings. 03:47:26
Was conversation around? 03:47:28
Staffing the RDA in a way that we could take some of the work off of city staff and actually have those be separate pots. 03:47:31
From your perspective. 03:47:38
As the the director for the RDA right now. 03:47:39
What would be the most beneficial positions and help I mean to my? 03:47:42
If I'm thinking about it. 03:47:46
And granted, this is just my overview. 03:47:47
I'm thinking about, you know. 03:47:49
A finance director for the RDA? I'm thinking about legal counsel for the RDA. What? 03:47:51
Positions would be. 03:47:55
Worth looking at and then. 03:47:56
That way. 03:47:58
The mayor knows what to take to the taxing entities to talk about, you know, administrative costs. 03:47:59
I think that based on. 03:48:08
The size of the city. 03:48:10
And the size of the RDA. 03:48:12
It makes more sense to. 03:48:14
To have existing city staff. 03:48:16
Do fractional work for the RDA. 03:48:19
But if you want more labor, so to speak, to be dedicated to the RDA. 03:48:24
Then I think it makes more sense for the city to then. 03:48:30
Just look at the actual city staffing and say well. 03:48:33
You know we as a city can afford one more person to do XY and Z because 50% of their work will be RDA. 03:48:36
And the. 03:48:43
The cost of that? 03:48:43
Person or that work can be covered by the admin. Like I don't know that it makes sense to have a. 03:48:45
Entirely separate staff. 03:48:50
Because there's already a lot of overlap. 03:48:52
So for example. 03:48:55
If you wanted more involvement. 03:48:56
From public works and engineering as it. 03:48:59
Came to things happening within the context of the RDA. 03:49:02
It makes a lot more synergy sense to have somebody. 03:49:06
On the public works staff who does that type of work or even have like a couple different specialists that are part of your public 03:49:10
works team? 03:49:14
That then do some of that work specific to the RDA. 03:49:18
But other work related. 03:49:22
To the city, so using the admin. 03:49:23
Allocation. 03:49:27
Of the RDA revenue to defray the cost of. 03:49:28
Useful. 03:49:32
Additional city staff I think is. 03:49:34
The most synergistic. 03:49:36
Because you think about it like you can have a team of five people. 03:49:40
Where half of their effort is RDA rather than a team of. 03:49:43
Three people who are like. 03:49:46
Solely dedicated to the RDA. 03:49:47
If that makes sense, because then you can have. 03:49:49
Five different talents and abilities, rather than just three. 03:49:51
So it's kind of economies of scale. 03:49:55
You know the RDA doesn't have the economies of scale to have. 03:49:57
A lot of staff. 03:50:01
But I think the whole vision of how Rda's work with other. 03:50:02
Taxing entities with cities and counties etc. 03:50:06
Is that they are using some of their existing city staff. So like you don't need a finance director of the RDA. You have a city 03:50:09
finance director, but maybe you have an additional finance person. 03:50:14
And between both of them, they're doing some work. 03:50:19
On the RDA. 03:50:22
I think that's. 03:50:24
Probably the. 03:50:25
Best model? 03:50:26
OK, OK. 03:50:28
Just again for my knowledge because I love to ask stupid questions and then stop being a little bit. 03:50:30
Less, more stupid. 03:50:36
Currently. 03:50:40
When these payments come due. 03:50:41
What's the approval process for actually submitting those? 03:50:43
And I the reason I ask is because we've been now the RDA board. 03:50:47
For two months. 03:50:51
And I haven't seen any. 03:50:52
Like payments requests or anything like that. 03:50:54
Come through. So I'm just curious what's that process look like? 03:50:57
Who has the ability to approve those payments? 03:51:00
Yeah, well, you caught it right at a. 03:51:04
At a period of time where the payments don't go out the door quite yet because get the revenue in January, we do calculations and 03:51:06
a lot of our contracts require us to pay in March, April or the spring or before the end of the fiscal year kind of thing. 03:51:12
So those payments are? 03:51:18
About to go out the door. 03:51:19
Basically it is. 03:51:22
I review it to make sure. 03:51:25
It fits the contract. 03:51:27
Make sure it's the right amount. Make sure the calculations are correct. 03:51:28
Give it to the accounting team to review. 03:51:32
To program it in. 03:51:35
And then the city manager. 03:51:37
Would then. 03:51:39
Sort of give a final administrative review, if you will, and then the mayor would sign off. 03:51:41
On the check. 03:51:46
So there's usually four people, so to speak, looking at it. 03:51:47
You know myself. 03:51:52
For kind of the. 03:51:53
Logistics of it. 03:51:54
The finance team for the financial particulars, which could include the finance director, but also the accounts payable team. 03:51:56
And then, you know, the city manager for kind of a final approval and then the mayor for the final stamp, if you will, or 03:52:04
signature. 03:52:07
When it comes to the board. 03:52:12
As a RDA board or a council. 03:52:14
Generally speaking, your financial role is setting the budget. 03:52:17
And. 03:52:21
So it's the council or the board aren't part of approving payments, you're part of approving the budget which authorizes or 03:52:22
appropriates the funds for the planned payments to occur. 03:52:27
We could incorporate. 03:52:34
Kind of an informational briefing quarterly or something like that, if there was an appetite to do that where it's like. 03:52:36
Hey, this is how much? 03:52:42
We've spent this quarter or these are the payments that are going out or there could be some kind of. 03:52:43
Way to brief the board, if you will, on the more particulars about the payments. 03:52:48
So, but that's kind of the process now and it's pretty common in government entities to follow. 03:52:54
Essentially that process where. 03:53:00
You know the board. 03:53:02
Allocates or appropriates the funds by adopting the budget. 03:53:03
The budget is what authorizes the expense and then the specific implementation of those expenses done. 03:53:07
By the executive branch through kind of the personnel I was just describing. 03:53:13
Yeah, Kim, did you, Kim Cornelius, did you? You want to come and. 03:53:17
Have a question? 03:53:23
Yeah, Kim Cornelius Villas. 03:53:26
I'd like to have Joyce's perspective on the elephant in the county. 03:53:29
And that's not the Republican Party. It's the real elephant. 03:53:33
Called typical school district. 03:53:35
Josh, would be interested to know what your perception is of. 03:53:38
The The current agreement with Alpine does that just. 03:53:41
End with the separation. 03:53:44
And then do you foresee anything? 03:53:46
Onerous or in addition to what we would normally be spending if we were still with Alpine, with the new district being a startup 03:53:50
with maybe. 03:53:53
Extra large expenses and those kinds of things that they would be wanting some help with. 03:53:57
Yeah, good question. 03:54:02
So, um. 03:54:03
Under state law. 03:54:05
When a school district splits like Alpine did. 03:54:07
The descendant. 03:54:11
Or inheritor school districts, so to speak, inherits all the same financial and legal obligations. So in the case of the Vineyard 03:54:12
RDA. 03:54:16
Where previously. 03:54:20
There was the taxing Entity Committee which included Alpine School District. 03:54:23
When the project area plan and project area budget were adopted. 03:54:26
And the RDA came into existence and the tax increment finance. 03:54:31
Process was agreed to. 03:54:35
That became, in a sense, an obligation of. 03:54:37
Of the Alpine School District to. 03:54:40
Approve of. 03:54:43
The tax increment. 03:54:44
Anticipation. 03:54:45
So the Timpanogos district then inherits that obligation that it doesn't need to be any. 03:54:47
Formal. 03:54:53
Legal or other kind of? 03:54:54
Action to take place. It is just automatic that they do inherit those financial and legal obligations of the previous district. 03:54:56
Pursuant to the area that they now serve, which with the RDA being within the new Timpanogos District. 03:55:03
The Timpanogos district then inherits the obligation to participate in tax increment financing. 03:55:10
In terms of what is the impact? 03:55:17
I mean the impact is. 03:55:19
That, uh. 03:55:21
That where the new school district is roughly a. 03:55:24
3rd of the old school district, 1/3 of the finances 1/3 of the area, maybe 1/3 of the. 03:55:27
The value of all the. 03:55:34
The taxable value of the land and I know, I know there's not perfect. There's a few things that kind of go One Direction in the 03:55:36
other for the different 3 districts. 03:55:40
What this means is that the degree to which tax increment financing. 03:55:45
Reduces. 03:55:50
The taxable value available to the school district. 03:55:51
As a share of the old Alpine District, it was a smaller share. 03:55:56
Of the whole Alpine district, where that Alpine district doesn't exist, you have a smaller district. In Timpanogos, it's a larger 03:56:00
share. 03:56:03
Of. 03:56:06
Of Timpanogos, if you said oh, what's the value of? 03:56:07
The incremental value dedicated to the RDA from a tax value. 03:56:12
Perspective and you're deducting that from the taxable base for the. 03:56:16
For the school district. 03:56:21
It's just it's a larger share of Timpanogos than it was of Alpine, right? Because it's. 03:56:23
It's some percentage, you know, if we call it like. 03:56:28
3% or 2% or something like that if it was. 03:56:32
2% of the Alpine District. 03:56:35
Will you split the Alpine district into 3? And now we're dealing with. 03:56:37
1/3. 03:56:40
In that sense, now it's more it might be like 6% instead of 2% because we're dealing with. 03:56:41
A smaller. 03:56:49
District. So that's that's the impact. 03:56:50
Now. 03:56:52
When they split the district. 03:56:53
They did account for things like taxable value because the district looked at a variety of different. 03:56:55
Things about both the tax value. 03:57:01
The fund balances and as I recall and I wasn't part of every conversation, but I I. 03:57:04
I was Privy to a few as the. 03:57:09
District was planning. 03:57:12
The split. 03:57:13
They looked at the finances to try to create. 03:57:15
As much parity among the three new districts as they could. 03:57:19
With with what they had to work with. 03:57:23
But yeah, the particulars of those I'm certainly not. 03:57:26
An expert on. 03:57:28
Thank you. 03:57:31
OK. 03:57:34
Other things we want to discuss regarding this today. 03:57:35
We've been at it for almost 2 1/2 hours. 03:57:38
But I'm happy to. 03:57:41
Keep going. 03:57:43
I think you've canceled desires too. 03:57:44
I think it would be beneficial. You know, Josh, you brought up sharing an informational session maybe quarterly or something like 03:57:45
that. 03:57:48
But especially where? 03:57:52
We know we're going to have to do a budget amendment. It's probably just a best practice to stay on top of that and and. 03:57:53
Maybe quarterly we. 03:57:58
Just have a session where we go over. 03:58:00
Where's the budget actually at? Where's the revenues actually at? Let's make the adjustment as needed. 03:58:02
And we also need to keep track of how much time we're using on city employees for so we know. 03:58:07
If our if the. 03:58:12
The administration fee is enough. So we're charging, I understand it, 4% right now. Is that correct? 03:58:14
Yeah, 4% is the way we calculate it is that. 03:58:19
Per contract, are we actually locked into that amount? Yeah, good questions. So. 03:58:23
The admin. 03:58:29
Fee is largely pursuant to. 03:58:30
The original project area. 03:58:34
Budget. 03:58:36
The original project area budget had a schedule for. 03:58:37
What the anticipated admin fee would be each year, and the idea was that overall, over the course of the Rda's life, it would 03:58:41
average 4%. 03:58:46
It was front loaded in the early days because increment wouldn't be that large, but there could be startup costs for the city. 03:58:51
And so it. 03:58:58
It was as high as you know, 12 or 13 or 15% in the early years and then it would go down overtime and some of the later years it 03:58:59
would be less than 4% on an annual basis with the idea that over time it would. 03:59:05
Even out to about 4% we're still. 03:59:12
In the early years of the RDA rather than the later years, not even all the areas have been triggered yet. 03:59:15
And so but. 03:59:21
But our formula the last several years. 03:59:22
Has been. 03:59:24
Whatever our. 03:59:26
Budgeted revenue was that we were anticipating. 03:59:27
We would calculate 4% and that would be the. 03:59:29
Admin allocation, that would be a transfer to the city's general fund. It would be an expense to the RDA. 03:59:33
And it would be essentially a revenue. 03:59:40
To the city general fund, I have on the big spreadsheet under the all expenses I have the effective admin percentage for year over 03:59:42
year over year based on what our admin fund fee was. 03:59:48
And what our total? 03:59:55
Increment uh. 03:59:57
Collection was. 03:59:58
Currently, if you look at it on a total basis, we're at about 6.3% over the course of the last. 04:00:00
You know, 14 years of existence. 04:00:07
But each of the last. 04:00:11
Four or five years have been close to 4%. There was one year where it was 5. 04:00:13
Currently our budgeted amount for this year. 04:00:19
In the budget that I gave you would not be 4%. 04:00:22
It would be less. 04:00:25
Because. 04:00:26
We have to do a budget amendment to adjust the total revenue that we know we've received this year. 04:00:27
And then what the admin would be for that? 04:00:33
OK, now to the second part of your question. 04:00:36
About contracts. 04:00:39
Some of our contracts with developers to reimburse them based on a formula or percent of the increment we receive. 04:00:41
Some of those contracts do spell out. 04:00:49
That we have to reimburse. 04:00:51
Them. 04:00:54
Up to 100% of the increment. 04:00:56
Minus. 04:00:58
An allocation of no more than 6% admin. 04:00:59
So in some cases the maximum that we can recover. 04:01:03
In the case of a particular contract, is 6%. 04:01:06
Other contracts. 04:01:10
Most of our contracts imply or make reference to a 6% cap. 04:01:11
On admin if you will. 04:01:16
There's not necessarily a state legal cap. 04:01:19
There is a cap in the HTRZ of 2 1/2% for when that triggers. 04:01:22
And then largely we've been following 4% because of the project area budget as part of the original project plan. 04:01:28
So it's kind of a multi part. 04:01:36
Situation, yeah, OK. 04:01:37
OK. You brought up HDR. 04:01:41
And so I know that we we. 04:01:44
We sent A-Team up. 04:01:47
Last year to. 04:01:48
To be have part of the. 04:01:50
The Utah City area designated as an HTR. 04:01:53
Z zone is. It's a zone. 04:01:56
Housing. Transit. 04:01:58
Reimbursement, something like that? 04:01:59
Previous was owned and so and part of that that was an additional. 04:02:00
Tax increment financed. 04:02:04
Zone, yes. 04:02:07
And it goes for another 25 years. Is that on? 04:02:08
How is that handled? You got you have a 75. 04:02:11
25 split. 04:02:13
On the increment right now, the RDA. 04:02:15
And then HDR. 04:02:17
It was 8820, isn't it? Yep. So how? 04:02:18
If we how we did on the same piece of land. 04:02:22
Can I can I add maybe a little bit more complexity to the question please? 04:02:25
There's also the Pids. 04:02:28
So how do all of those layer together and what does it actually take out of? 04:02:30
The RDA or what? The city? 04:02:35
Receives. 04:02:36
Because I mean that. 04:02:37
You have. 04:02:38
Multiple different tax obligations than. 04:02:39
Associated with one parcel of land. 04:02:42
Yeah, so. 04:02:45
In the three page handout I gave you. 04:02:47
On the last. 04:02:50
Page. 04:02:51
The last two entries. 04:02:54
On that. 04:02:57
Page deal with. 04:02:58
The sequential. 04:03:00
HTRZ and traditional tax increment. 04:03:03
Triggering if you will. 04:03:08
So. 04:03:09
The HTRZ increment will not run concurrently at the same time. 04:03:10
With the traditional increment. 04:03:16
The HTRZ will run first starting in 2029. 04:03:18
And then the traditional increment will run second starting in 2054. 04:03:23
Can you explain actually what that means so. 04:03:28
I don't think this is right, but the way that I'm understanding what you're saying would be. 04:03:31
The HRZ runs before the rest of it is actually. 04:03:35
Triggered and paying into the RDA with the TIF. 04:03:38
Yes. 04:03:41
So that's correct. That's correct. So. 04:03:42
Yeah, so the HTR. 04:03:44
Which is a subset. 04:03:47
Of the downtown and a subset. 04:03:49
Of. 04:03:52
Phase 5. 04:03:52
It's basically, you know, north of the Vineyard connector. 04:03:54
And it's on the West side. 04:03:58
Of. 04:04:00
The railroad. 04:04:01
Kind of the West Geneva area. 04:04:02
That's the area, that's the HTRZ. 04:04:05
And per the HTRZ agreement and approval by the state. 04:04:08
It is going to be triggered whether it's all complete. 04:04:12
Completely built or not? Which it won't be completely built. 04:04:15
But it's going to begin triggering in 2029. 04:04:19
And then that'll run for 25 years. 04:04:24
And then when that's. 04:04:26
Done this the the traditional. 04:04:27
Tax increment finance will be triggered for 2054 and collect for 25 years until 2079. 04:04:30
So they don't collect simultaneously. 04:04:37
They collect sequentially. 04:04:41
And the revenue generated? 04:04:43
From that site. 04:04:46
Is the. 04:04:47
Revenue that will be used to pay back the infrastructure. 04:04:48
For the development of that area. 04:04:54
Now guys. 04:04:56
In the HTRZ supposed to. 04:04:57
Be a paper rent. 04:04:59
Partial rent reimbursement for low. 04:05:03
Yeah, it's, it's to incentivize. 04:05:05
The type. 04:05:08
Of development. 04:05:09
That includes a portion of affordable housing, and it's designed to incentivize the construction of. 04:05:11
More. 04:05:18
Vertical higher density type developments. 04:05:19
That are. 04:05:22
Appropriate for. 04:05:23
You know, a transit corridor or a transit hub. You can't have an HTRZ without having. 04:05:25
A front runner station essentially. And so because we have a front runner station, we qualify to have an HTRZ. 04:05:32
And so. 04:05:37
Yeah, the HTR has. 04:05:40
A specific list of the types of infrastructure that are. 04:05:42
That are both required and reimbursable. 04:05:45
And that it was sort of the agreement of the developer to put in that type of development. 04:05:48
Which? 04:05:54
Triggers the ability to then get approved for the HTRZ. The HTRZ. 04:05:54
Is state policy essentially that? 04:05:59
Is designed to incentivize. 04:06:02
More housing availability near transit. 04:06:03
Centers. 04:06:07
So that triggers and. 04:06:08
In a few years, and when it does? 04:06:10
Those funds go to a separate account and they're they're handled separately as the HTRZ a separate entity. 04:06:11
No the HTRZ well. 04:06:17
You could think of it as separate the the RDA board functions as the board for the HTRZ. 04:06:19
And will receive the. 04:06:26
The funds? 04:06:28
Similar to how you receive. 04:06:30
The other increment funds. 04:06:31
And so we'll be. 04:06:34
Reimbursing. 04:06:35
Construction costs or actual rental ongoing? No. Rental subsidy costs? No. You'll be reimbursing the infrastructure development 04:06:37
costs. 04:06:42
So yeah, a lot of that spelled out in the land donation development agreement for the Lake Promenade from 2020 as well as. 04:06:46
The HTRZ application. 04:06:54
And Agreement 2022 and then the Participation Agreement 2023. 04:06:58
Um, but. 04:07:04
The the reimbursable expenses under those agreements are related to construction. 04:07:06
There's not. 04:07:12
Really a subsidy program, it's more that. 04:07:12
The developer has to create the types of units where a certain percent are affordable. 04:07:16
Based on a formula of income, and there's a whole state formula about what's defined as affordable housing. 04:07:21
And the percent? 04:07:28
The minimum percent that has to be available within those different bands. 04:07:29
And so that runs then and then we. 04:07:36
Collect the increment on the. 04:07:39
The regular RDA that. 04:07:42
That triggers, correct? So then. 04:07:44
Are we anticipating that we won't have finished paying off the? 04:07:46
The developer reimbursing developer development. 04:07:50
Before then? Or is that how's that? I mean, what what's the point of the? 04:07:53
RDA increment at the end of the 25, Yeah, so the increment. 04:07:57
You could certainly choose to. 04:08:01
End the increment early if you've. 04:08:03
Paid all your obligations. 04:08:05
In the case of the contracts with developers, they are maxed out in terms of receiving reimbursement for their actual expenses. 04:08:07
And does it matter which? 04:08:15
They are reimbursed from, whether that's the HTRZ or the. 04:08:17
The RDA? No, it doesn't matter what they're reimbursed from. 04:08:21
That, but they are limited. 04:08:24
To receiving a maximum of. 04:08:26
The increment. 04:08:29
And once the increment runs 25 years, whatever they've collected in reimbursement is the most that they're going to get. 04:08:31
And so they don't get another 25 years at the next. 04:08:38
Next increment level. 04:08:41
I guess the question is if we have the HRZ for 25 years. 04:08:42
And that. 04:08:46
Resolves all of those. 04:08:47
Liabilities, yeah. Then your next 25 years of tax increment finance, you don't actually have any reimbursements, you're just. 04:08:50
Generating that. 04:08:56
Tax increment, yeah. 04:08:58
Yep. And I mean at that point you could use those funds for. 04:08:59
Additional infrastructure within the scope of the project. 04:09:02
If it's all complete. 04:09:06
You. You don't. I mean you can. 04:09:07
You can end it. 04:09:09
Sooner. 04:09:10
Is there a limit on how long this RDA can? 04:09:12
Can go I mean. 04:09:15
Is there a maximum time we can go before we have to increase? 04:09:17
Fire off our trigger all the increments. 04:09:21
In a sense, yes, because any given triggered area can only run for 25 years. 04:09:23
So once you've triggered. 04:09:30
All of the areas. 04:09:32
Then you've got 25 years. The HTRZ is specific. That's an additional 25. 04:09:34
But for that. 04:09:39
Section only. 04:09:40
So yeah, the maximum amount of time. 04:09:42
Is 25 years. 04:09:44
The HJRZ is a separate. 04:09:46
Program under state law. So that's why there's a separate 25 years, but otherwise every area of the city once you've triggered it 04:09:47
and I would say. 04:09:52
Almost half, maybe 40. 04:09:57
40 to 45%. 04:10:00
Of all areas in the RDA. 04:10:02
Project area. 04:10:06
Have been triggered already at some point in the past. Some. 04:10:07
More recently some several years ago. So you're, you know, those areas are going to expire before 25 years from this point on. 04:10:11
There's the only areas that have. 04:10:19
Really not been triggered that will last a long time. Will the HTRZ in a sense will be 50 years because you have 25 back-to-back. 04:10:21
But other areas outside of the HTRZ, once they start collecting increment, they have a 25 year clock and then everything's over at 04:10:28
that point. 04:10:32
So OK, OK, so tell us about Pid's PID. 04:10:39
So. 04:10:41
Yeah, so good question about. 04:10:43
Public infrastructure district. Public infrastructure district. 04:10:44
Is the ability for. 04:10:48
Kind of like a non governmental organization because it's not the city. 04:10:51
To Levy. 04:10:57
Attacks of sorts on themselves to pay off. 04:10:59
Public infrastructure. So in the case of these Pids. 04:11:02
The developer. 04:11:07
Is going to. 04:11:08
Create public infrastructure districts. 04:11:10
Where they will levy. 04:11:13
Kind of like a tax. 04:11:15
On. 04:11:17
The properties within the district. 04:11:18
To pay off. 04:11:21
Certain infrastructure. 04:11:23
Costs in those areas. 04:11:25
Now. 04:11:28
In the case of our. 04:11:29
Partnership with. 04:11:31
The developers for. 04:11:32
Vineyard. 04:11:34
They are only going to be charging themselves. 04:11:36
That tax? 04:11:40
Right. So it's basically them saying hey. 04:11:42
We have these properties, some commercial, some residential. 04:11:45
We want to be able to provide these infrastructure. 04:11:49
You know, services and infrastructure. 04:11:53
You know. 04:11:56
Area, you know, things that are infrastructure. 04:11:57
But the city? 04:12:00
Doesn't want to build them. 04:12:01
And pay for them. 04:12:03
They're they're beyond what the RDA? 04:12:06
Would pay for. 04:12:08
But. 04:12:10
We would like to pay for them. 04:12:10
So, uh. 04:12:12
We can. 04:12:13
Finance them ourselves. 04:12:14
And. 04:12:17
We can pay. 04:12:18
Off this infrastructure. 04:12:20
Through. 04:12:22
A public infrastructure district. 04:12:23
Through the tax increment, the 1% additional. 04:12:26
Yeah, they can charge up to 1% under a PID. 04:12:30
On themselves. Themselves. 04:12:33
To pay for infrastructure. In a way, it's probably more like a. 04:12:35
A way to finance something without having to pay income taxes on it, right? Because it's a, it's a public kind of thing. 04:12:40
So. 04:12:47
But. 04:12:48
My understanding. 04:12:49
They're not going to be charging. 04:12:50
Additional other non sort of participating private land owners. 04:12:52
Right or. 04:12:57
Yeah, so. 04:12:58
So how long do those last? 04:12:59
That's a good question, I'm not an expert yet in that. 04:13:03
My experience with. 04:13:07
The concept of public infrastructure districts outside of Utah is that they expire once the bonds have been paid off for that 04:13:09
particular infrastructure. 04:13:13
And and that's what I would presume, but I'd have to do a little more research to find out. 04:13:19
So we would expect then that they would bond. 04:13:23
For whatever monies they needed and then. 04:13:26
Use that 1% to pay those bonds off. 04:13:28
Yeah, and then it would the. 04:13:30
Pieties go away. 04:13:31
Yep, that's what we should expect. 04:13:32
Yep. Do you know how many Pids we have? 04:13:34
They're they're going to be. 04:13:39
Confined to certain areas, there might be a couple different ones based on the different. 04:13:41
Sections of the downtown that they're serving. 04:13:46
They're currently currently 10. There's 222 big zones where they could create them, and then they each created 5 actual districts 04:13:49
in each of those areas. 04:13:53
Yeah, so. 04:13:58
And that makes it so that it's. 04:13:59
The revenue that they're collecting from themselves is specific. 04:14:01
To the infrastructure in that particular area. 04:14:05
If you get too big, then it's like you have people over here kind of subsidizing infrastructure over there. 04:14:08
And this is like the traditional argument with cities like. 04:14:14
You know, if you're a big city and you're an old city, and then new people move to the city and there's a new development in the 04:14:17
city. 04:14:20
The people that have been in the city a long time say, wait a minute, our property taxes are going up to pay for new streets and 04:14:24
the other part of the city where I don't live and I don't use those streets, right? 04:14:28
So it's like this question of how do you allocate the cost of infrastructure to existing residents in an area that's growing, 04:14:33
where you have new people coming in that need new and different infrastructure than has been there for a while. How do you 04:14:38
socialize, if you will, that cost across? 04:14:43
Across that. 04:14:49
Broad swath, so that's probably why they have different smaller districts. 04:14:50
Just have a quick question back to the HR. 04:14:56
Disease. The area that we designate that HTRZ is that in an RDA area that's been already triggered. 04:14:59
Is that area not? Yeah, good question. It's in an RDA area, but it has not been triggered. It has not been triggered. It's the 04:15:06
it's the big section that runs from where the Huntsman Cancer Hospital will be at the north. 04:15:11
All the way down to the Vineyard Connector Rd. 04:15:16
Where Bella's market is. 04:15:19
Over to the railroad tracks. 04:15:21
And out to the Vineyard Connector Rd. that. 04:15:22
Runs around, so it's kind of that almost teardrop shape. 04:15:25
In the north center of the city. 04:15:28
Go, come. 04:15:30
Any other questions? 04:15:33
What would it take to? 04:15:35
To get. 04:15:37
The money is allocated for that. 04:15:38
For the further audit. 04:15:40
Well, work with our new finance director to see what we have available in the existing budget and then see if there's any 04:15:44
additional that we need to make a budget amendment for. 04:15:48
Can we direct that to be done? 04:15:52
Yeah. Please can you jump on that? 04:15:54
There's $1,000,000 of extra RDA revenue right now. That's what I heard, yes. 04:15:57
Yeah. So hopefully there's enough, yeah. 04:16:01
Yeah, 1 million of them are spoken for in our agreement, but. 04:16:04
But yes, you're right. 04:16:06
OK. 04:16:09
Great. Thank you. OK, thank you. Any other questions? 04:16:10
For Joshua on this item. 04:16:14
OK, seeing none. 04:16:18
That is the last item here, so I'll entertain a motion. 04:16:20
Two and the Medium mayor. There's also public comment on here. I'm not even seeing the public comment, sorry. 04:16:23
Is there anyone that would like? 04:16:32
To talk. We've been at this for a minute. 04:16:34
Not to discourage public comment though. 04:16:40
OK, seeing none. 04:16:42
OK. Next is adjournment. 04:16:45
I will entertain a motion to adjourn. 04:16:47
So moved. 04:16:50
2nd. 04:16:52
Aye, all in favor. 04:16:53
Hi, we are adjourned. 04:16:55
I love the gavel. 04:16:59

Transcript

Event transcript
All righty. Good morning, everybody. I would like to welcome everybody up to City Council. 00:12:50
Today I am Mayor Zach Stratton, and it is. 00:12:55
10:00 So we'll go ahead and. 00:12:59
Get started. 00:13:02
I'm going to turn the time to Councilman Larae to introduce our. 00:13:04
Pledge of Allegiance and our prayer participants this morning. 00:13:08
Thank you, Mayor. 00:13:13
So it's my pleasure to introduce Nathe and Emery Venisi. 00:13:14
Who are? 00:13:18
Study home school and they're going to. 00:13:20
Give us our invocation. 00:13:22
And then lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:13:24
No, I think can you come to the podium there? 00:13:31
Thanks bud. 00:13:34
Yeah, should be on. 00:13:38
Heavenly Father, thank you for this wonderful day. 00:13:41
Thank you for. 00:13:44
All you've done and will do. 00:13:45
Please bless that the City Council can have the. 00:13:47
Make the right decisions and the correct decisions. Give them wisdom. 00:13:51
And uh. 00:13:55
Thank you for everything you do in names, Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:13:56
Amen. 00:13:59
Please stand. 00:14:02
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God. 00:14:08
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:14:19
Awesome guys. Thank you and so. 00:14:25
Since you said the prayer and the pledge, we have a pin for you. 00:14:28
How are we doing on pins, Tony? Were you running low? 00:14:31
OK, we have so many pins, so come up here and tell me, we'll give you guys a pin. 00:14:35
Thank you so much, you guys are awesome. 00:14:39
All righty, we're going to jump into our work session. The first item 2.1 is discussion around the. 00:14:42
Transportation utility fee. 00:14:47
And today we have Cody and Josh, Cody's from EFG and then we've got Josh with Hales Engineering. So they have a presentation. 00:14:49
So I recognize them and invite them to to go ahead and do that and. 00:14:57
As if we have questions during the presentation, just jump in. Absolutely sounds great. Thank you, Sir. 00:15:03
All right, so we shared this information. 00:15:11
In a couple of work sessions and City Council meetings at the end of last year. 00:15:13
So some of this will. 00:15:19
Maybe slightly out of order of what? 00:15:22
May make the most sense, but like we said, Mayor, please jump in and ask questions as we move forward. So I'll just jump right to 00:15:24
this slide which. 00:15:28
The Last City Council asked for two specific options about the transportation utility fee. 00:15:32
Camera so I can see the presentation as well. 00:15:40
Presentation. Presentation. 00:15:52
Right, OK. 00:15:54
You don't. You don't need to see the presenter. 00:15:58
There's no, there's no value in that. 00:15:59
Yes. 00:16:10
I could do that, yeah. 00:16:21
Should I do that? 00:16:22
Yeah, just send me the link. 00:16:28
OK. 00:16:59
You just want to make sure your audio is off. 00:17:03
I'll turn both. 00:17:09
Mike and my. 00:17:09
Yeah, yeah. 00:17:12
Phone, yeah. 00:17:26
Coming through that. 00:17:37
I think I just heard it. 00:17:38
At least I know that it's a. 00:17:45
On its way. 00:17:54
It wasn't on this was it? 00:18:06
Was it on the old invite? 00:18:07
Yeah, that's the same one. 00:18:12
Let's try that. 00:18:17
Let me make sure. 00:18:22
It's the same number anyway. 00:18:25
By yourself now and say your own prayer. 00:18:39
And I think we're good. 00:18:50
Yeah, all right. The answer is on the. 00:18:55
Oh, OK. 00:19:00
No worries. 00:19:02
My personal one was sorry you grabbed the wrong. 00:19:06
Yeah. 00:19:09
This is the one I made. 00:19:10
So I don't need to join a different. 00:19:15
Link or something? I got a little bit of that. 00:19:17
No. 00:19:19
I assess it's a long way. 00:19:20
All right, came through on my phone. 00:19:29
Keep that gap. But this is right. We're going to need it. 00:19:36
Sometimes it will let me. 00:19:44
Sometimes not for men. 00:19:47
It's on the same network sometimes. 00:19:54
I never figured that one out. Google Phone and Windows. Yeah, nice last day they did Google. 00:19:58
There's a lot of cities here. 00:20:03
That's it. 00:20:06
Audio off Don't use audio. 00:20:25
Yeah, like that. 00:20:29
OK, so I just need to share my screen, is that right? Yeah. 00:20:40
Now you can just go through your presentation. 00:20:50
Can you see that? 00:20:57
Yeah. Thank you. Good. OK. 00:21:02
I feel like that was a little anticlimactic now. 00:21:06
OK, I'm going to just jump here. 00:21:09
Actually to. 00:21:13
I'm going to jump to this slide even though I'm not an engineer. 00:21:19
So the purpose behind? 00:21:23
The transportation impact, The transportation utility fee. 00:21:25
Was to collect. 00:21:30
I changed my mind again. I'm going to start here to collect. 00:21:33
Sufficient revenue. 00:21:36
To ensure that all of your capital projects and all of your transportation. 00:21:38
Costs were covered. 00:21:44
So my company EFG Consulting teamed. 00:21:46
With Hales engineering. 00:21:50
Develop a methodology. 00:21:53
To implement. 00:21:56
These projects so Hell's their scope was to look at? 00:21:59
With NASIM. 00:22:03
The costs of pavement management and other. 00:22:04
Capital projects that would be needed. 00:22:08
And my task was then. 00:22:12
To look at those costs, work with. 00:22:14
The Finance department. 00:22:16
And 1st, starting with the operating costs. 00:22:18
Like what costs are? 00:22:21
Being born by. 00:22:22
The transportation fund. 00:22:24
From an operational. 00:22:26
Basis or you're talking about salaries and wages and some of those other costs of that nature and then looking at secondarily what 00:22:28
capital projects do you need? So there are very specific capital projects and then there's also. 00:22:35
Ongoing pavement management. 00:22:41
And that is by far the largest cost is the pavement management. 00:22:44
We also looked at. 00:22:47
Options of. 00:22:48
Of debt. 00:22:50
If we need to. 00:22:51
To fund some of these large projects. 00:22:53
Use debt. 00:22:56
And then we also deployed some financial metrics. 00:22:57
Specifically, how much cash? 00:23:00
You should be carrying year over year. 00:23:02
To ensure that you have enough for an emergency situation that might occur. 00:23:05
Then ultimately that. 00:23:10
Landed with. 00:23:12
A revenue requirement. 00:23:13
Meaning, how much annual revenue do we need every year from? 00:23:14
The transportation utility fee, aside from Class B Rd. funds and the highway tax and other general fund monies that you have. 00:23:19
What would be needed? 00:23:27
From the constituency that you serve. 00:23:29
To ensure that you can deploy. 00:23:31
Covering this capital and. 00:23:34
Operating costs. 00:23:37
So just looking at. 00:23:39
Graphically, so there's a spreadsheet behind this, a 10 year projection of expenditures, revenues, fund balances. 00:23:42
But starting here with. 00:23:49
Graphical representation of that which is easier to understand. 00:23:51
That red line represents 2025. That vertical line there. 00:23:56
So we are here in fiscal year 2026, we're halfway through. 00:23:59
2026. 00:24:04
Historically. 00:24:05
The majority of your costs have been. 00:24:07
Broken up between capital and. 00:24:09
Personnel. 00:24:11
And some transfers out to the Administration Administrative Fund. 00:24:14
Hidden going forward, you can see the green on top. 00:24:18
Is your ongoing capital projects. 00:24:21
It's a meaningful amount of money that will be needed. 00:24:24
To ensure that your Rd. system. 00:24:28
Meets its useful life and provides the service that it's intended to provide. 00:24:30
This light blue has been added because we have assumed that. 00:24:35
The best way to manage. 00:24:39
That annual revenue requirement is to issue debt in 2026 to cover. 00:24:40
Some of those large. 00:24:45
Capital projects. 00:24:46
That's of course up to your discretion to do that. 00:24:48
A couple questions on this slide here specifically. So I see the where did these underlying assumptions for this graph? 00:24:51
Come from Is this was this input from staff or was this just? 00:24:59
Yeah. So the historic numbers came from your historic expenses and then yes, projecting forward on the operating side it was. 00:25:03
Meeting with staff on the financial side, but then the capital projects, which are by far the largest was Hales Engineering with 00:25:11
with Naseem and the rest of the administrative team. 00:25:16
Thank you. 00:25:22
So to discover things like snow removal and things like that. 00:25:23
Yeah, this would be all of your transportation related costs. 00:25:26
OK, could I ask? 00:25:29
And maybe Naseem, if you know and you can chime in on this. 00:25:32
Why is there such a sharp increase? I mean what assumptions LED? 00:25:36
To the increase between 2025 through 2028. 00:25:40
On the on the capital side, yeah, the City Hall expenses or any of those kind of things, this is only transportation related 00:25:47
infrastructure. 00:25:50
So, umm. 00:25:54
Bridge. 00:25:55
The bridges. 00:25:56
So here's a list of the capital projects that might be helpful. You want to speak to these? Yeah, yeah. So Josh Gibbons with Hales 00:25:58
Engineering, so. 00:26:02
The the spike you see is really just based on the timing that we expected that some of these projects would come online. 00:26:05
So that's why you see. 00:26:12
Mainly 2028 we showed Lake Blvd. a project there. That's a. 00:26:14
$5 million project or so. 00:26:18
So just based on the timing of those capital projects, that's why you see a spike those years. 00:26:20
And can I ask I went through this. 00:26:25
PDF already. 00:26:28
To my understanding and I just wanted to make sure that it was correct and that I wasn't misreading. 00:26:29
Your 28,000 for pavement preservation, that's actually. 00:26:35
The entire time through the 2030 projection on here, correct? 00:26:38
Correct. And that's based on the historical data that we got from. 00:26:43
From the city. 00:26:47
While we have it up. 00:26:50
Can I ask? 00:26:52
Your professional opinion? 00:26:53
What of these projects? 00:26:55
Is necessary immediately and which of these would we have room potentially to space out overtime to mitigate our upfront costs? 00:26:57
Overall, I'd say that was taken into account with the timelines. 00:27:07
For the years, honestly you've a few projects for 2026. 00:27:10
600 N of Main Street has been a topic as we worked on the. 00:27:15
The master plan the last couple years and. 00:27:18
Just driving in today. 00:27:21
You know, it was a good reminder to myself of. 00:27:23
Why a traffic signal is needed at that intersection soon? 00:27:26
So I would say. 00:27:31
All the ones in 2026 are needed. 00:27:32
Right away, yeah. 00:27:35
So you include Main Street to Zinfandel? 00:27:44
Main Street, Citadel to 400. 00:27:48
For this year. 00:27:51
And that was is that. 00:27:52
That was already built. 00:27:54
So is that considering this? 00:27:55
Yeah, I think it does say 2026 to to say it was an immediate need that was built while we worked on the master plan. So it it was 00:27:57
already built, but the goal here would be to. 00:28:01
Maybe recoup some of that cost. It's kind of the thought I see. 00:28:06
Thank you. 00:28:10
And Disney. And I know that, Josh. 00:28:12
Cody could probably elaborate better more on this when the capital comes to capital projects. 00:28:16
There are certain percentages that can be paid out of impact fees and there's certain. 00:28:21
Percentages that are not allowed to be paid up in fact fees. 00:28:25
So some of these capital projects are? 00:28:28
I would say is a portion of it being paid off impact fees and portion of it being paid off like. 00:28:33
More of the utility ag. 00:28:39
Specific and I know and I say I know that Josh and. 00:28:41
Could elaborate more on on the requirements to that. 00:28:43
So the proportion to be paid out of impact fees has already been removed from this, is that correct? 00:28:47
Yeah. So there can be some adjustments we can make to this now. 00:28:53
This this was this process was completed before the impact fees were. 00:28:57
Finalized. 00:29:01
We're at the stage now where we're close to coming. 00:29:03
To the Council again with the impact fees for review. 00:29:06
So my suggestion to staff NASIM and the council would be to. 00:29:10
We could look at some adjustments here. 00:29:15
To make sure we do account for impact fees. 00:29:16
That way we're not double charging anybody for anything. 00:29:19
So thank you. 00:29:24
So just looking at this next slide will help answer that question. 00:29:25
In some regard. 00:29:30
So this is this is all of the revenue that we anticipate coming into the transportation fund. 00:29:31
And historically you've had Class B, Class C, Rd. funds and transportation. 00:29:37
Tax, which is the sales tax. 00:29:42
And now going forward, we're seeing we also need rate revenue. 00:29:45
And then this little. 00:29:48
Yellow piece is impact fees, so we've made an assumption of where your impact fee might be. 00:29:51
When we were doing this. 00:29:55
So. 00:29:57
We've shown all the capital projects that need to be paid for. 00:29:58
And then this represents the subsidy that would come in and offset some of those? 00:30:01
Disproportionately. 00:30:05
If that makes sense. So the transportation fund has to fund everything up front and impact fees only come in as. 00:30:09
Building occurs and reimburses the transportation fund for those costs. 00:30:15
Or the general fund, however it's structured. 00:30:20
Did you guys provide any? 00:30:22
Consulting on what the impact fees. 00:30:24
Are currently or what they should be looking like moving forward? Or is this just totally assumption? 00:30:27
So. 00:30:32
Did. 00:30:33
It was an educated guess based on the projects that we already had in the pipeline. So I assume that this will be based on where 00:30:34
we are now and that impact fee analysis because we are jointly doing that as well. 00:30:39
Josh and I. 00:30:44
It'll be very close. 00:30:45
To what that is, I mean what the maximum amount you could charge. It will obviously be at your discretion to determine what that 00:30:46
fee should actually be. 00:30:50
But it is important to Nassim's point on this. 00:30:55
Previous slide that I mean the biggest cost by far. 00:30:57
Is the 28 million in pavement preservation? I mean, that's the that's the big one and. 00:31:00
Pavement preservation is not an eligible. 00:31:05
Expense for impact fees. 00:31:07
It can only be for capital projects that add capacity to your system. 00:31:09
So anything that is maintenance or repair. 00:31:14
Is not an eligible expense for the impact piece. 00:31:17
Can I ask just for my own understanding? 00:31:20
Because I'm willing to ask dumb questions to learn. There's no dumb question is that. 00:31:22
As a result of a state code or a city code. 00:31:26
State code, yeah. So the the impact the act. 00:31:29
Is very clear that it can only be for capital projects. 00:31:32
That are system wide improvements. 00:31:35
So they. 00:31:37
Benefit to the whole system and that AD capacity. 00:31:38
So that's. 00:31:42
That's the whole heart of the impact fee. 00:31:43
So and can I ask then on the? 00:31:46
Pavement preservation does that. 00:31:49
This seems is that part of that peak because we have a lot of roads to do one year and. 00:31:51
We can't. We can't spread out. 00:31:55
Yeah. So on the pavement preservation, the way that we did the analysis on that is that. 00:31:57
So there's when you're projecting for. 00:32:03
Future pavement preservation, there's factors that come in play. One of the factors is the Broadway condition. And we, we did a 00:32:06
roadway condition study about two years ago, three years ago roughly. So we take that into a factor. 00:32:13
And then we look into like. 00:32:20
Projected degradation. 00:32:21
But also we also. 00:32:24
Take it. Take it into account when the road was built. 00:32:25
And and. 00:32:28
A lot over the roads here. Chris Thomas, who's our streets manager, who just who's who's here now. 00:32:31
A lot of the roads were built roughly around the same time. 00:32:36
As well. 00:32:38
So you're kind of getting to the point where you're trying to, you're managing the roads pavement preservation on. 00:32:39
A series of rows that were that came online about the same time and then. 00:32:45
Are degrading about the same time. 00:32:49
So when we do our pavement preservation. 00:32:51
With the funds that are approved. 00:32:55
Prior to actually doing pavement preservation. 00:32:58
And with the study that we that we had done. 00:33:00
We go out and do like a realistic assessment, like a walk on site assessment and that's done on an annual basis before actually 00:33:03
implementing it. So but we're projecting that. 00:33:07
Majority of the roads will require a more extensive. 00:33:12
Paper preservation method. 00:33:17
Around the same time. 00:33:19
So could I ask then, Chris? 00:33:21
If we had to delay. 00:33:23
A couple of roads for a year or two. 00:33:26
Are there some that would? 00:33:28
Hold it better that we could do that with. 00:33:29
I mean, for sure you could, you could do that. 00:33:35
How bad would it hurt? 00:33:38
Well, I think the problem is we're already falling behind on our pavement preservation. We already have rules that need to be 00:33:40
retreated. 00:33:43
So when we start pushing stuff then it just. 00:33:48
Magnifies our problem down the road. 00:33:51
And so, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, you can see that with that. 00:33:53
Graph that. 00:33:57
The more we. 00:33:58
Take care of them up front. 00:33:59
The more. 00:34:01
It saves us in the long term. 00:34:02
If we decide to push that down the road. 00:34:04
It becomes more expensive to deal with down the road. 00:34:06
Thank you very much. 00:34:10
Thinking about biting my tongue or just being honest and since this is a new council. 00:34:18
It's really important. 00:34:25
That people understand that. 00:34:27
The roads were built. 00:34:30
Hoping that businesses would come. 00:34:33
And that's when the clock of the aging of the roads. 00:34:35
Started to crumble. 00:34:39
Because you started the clock. 00:34:40
But then if the businesses don't come. 00:34:42
You have to go and repave it, right? 00:34:44
And so we've we have a lot of empty roads in. 00:34:46
A lot of different sections that. 00:34:49
We're getting old, but didn't have tax revenue coming in for for quite some time. 00:34:51
The thing that I would. 00:34:56
Suggest is we still have a lot of business areas and vineyards with a lot of infrastructure that is aging. 00:34:58
And over the past two years, that's one of the reasons why I've been saying. 00:35:04
You can't invest in new business infrastructure, roads if. 00:35:08
The roads you already built. 00:35:12
To put businesses in, they're still empty. 00:35:14
Adding more. 00:35:17
Adding more supply. 00:35:20
To some of the empty roads, especially into the yard, that haven't. 00:35:22
Filled up. 00:35:25
With RDA money. 00:35:26
So I would just counsel that. 00:35:28
The RDA and Citi understand that. 00:35:30
We've made a very large investment in our current. 00:35:34
Business. 00:35:37
Infrastructure. 00:35:38
And everyone is looking towards Utah City and saying invest in more roads, invest in more infrastructure. 00:35:40
When we have so many. 00:35:46
Empty roads and infrastructure. Well, most those empty roads are north of the megaplex. It's not called. What's it called? It's 00:35:47
not called the furnace. What's it called? 00:35:51
True, but forge, Forge. Thank you for forge. Many many of them have filled out, but what if? 00:35:55
But but to give context. 00:36:00
That the forge and the yard. 00:36:01
Some of those roads were built. 00:36:04
You know, 1518 years ago and some of the businesses are just barely coming in. So you have roads that sat there empty or vacant 00:36:06
for 12 years and are now having to be repaired. But they didn't have the. 00:36:12
The business. 00:36:18
Businesses there over that 15 years to create that tax revenue and so I would just counsel the RDA of like. 00:36:20
You don't want to build new infrastructure and start that clock because it starts to crumble if we can. 00:36:26
Be smarter in our RDA investments. I know this doesn't get us out of the problem today, but. 00:36:32
That's one thing that I harp on is slow down. 00:36:37
Let's make sure that our infrastructure that we've already invested in RDA is, is used. Our businesses are using that before we 00:36:40
go. 00:36:43
Building new roads and. 00:36:47
Starting that clock on those as well. 00:36:49
Right, This is, I just want to remind the council that these funds are able to be used for public roads. They're not the, they're 00:36:52
not able to be used for private roads. So roads inside. 00:36:57
Private subdivisions or private developments are. 00:37:02
Are not, cannot be. 00:37:04
Do not qualify for these types of funds. 00:37:06
Of the forge, those are public roads so there's a few. There's only one Rd. in the forage area that might be public I think. But 00:37:08
RDA money can be used right? 00:37:12
The RDA for. 00:37:18
Operations and maintenance, I can answer that question, so I I talked to. 00:37:20
Josh. 00:37:25
Daniels about that briefly. 00:37:26
Where I brought up the concern, I said, you know. 00:37:29
We have all of this increasing cost. 00:37:31
With development. 00:37:34
And if the RDA funds are primarily for cleanup? 00:37:37
Infrastructure. 00:37:41
Economic development. 00:37:42
Why can't we use the RDA funds? 00:37:43
To support. 00:37:46
The things as a prerequisite for. 00:37:47
Economic development. 00:37:50
And he said that he felt like there was a pretty strong. 00:37:52
Argument that could be made there that we should consult legal about what it can and can't be used for in line with that. 00:37:55
And it would be kind of one time money. 00:38:03
Right now I mean. 00:38:05
This cycle is going to happen again, though, because, I mean, you're planning on resurfacing these roads again at a certain point. 00:38:06
So we'll have the same peak in a certain number of years, correct? 00:38:10
So I'm wondering if there's any way we could sort of spread those out a little bit so that peak doesn't happen every so often, but 00:38:15
it's more of a. 00:38:18
All tides rise, but we have a level we can sustain. 00:38:21
Yeah. 00:38:25
We did consult legal counsel. 00:38:27
Karen helped us in a few things and our previous counsel and you'd want Jesse to renew that, but. 00:38:30
RDA funds. 00:38:35
Can be at the discretion of the RDA. 00:38:37
Body so that's why they were. 00:38:39
Able to be used for the City Hall or. 00:38:41
Or even Holdaway Rd. 00:38:44
Outside the RDA was used with RDA money and. 00:38:46
LRS was given a letter with RDA money outside of the jurisdiction right so. 00:38:49
The RDA can choose what they want to do with it. 00:38:53
I'm just hoping we can. 00:38:57
Put things on a maintenance schedule that we can sustain, as opposed to have this peak happen every 15 or 20 years. Whatever the 00:38:59
cycle is, it's wise. 00:39:02
Yeah. 00:39:05
And part of this peak. 00:39:08
Is not just. 00:39:09
Pavement Preservation. 00:39:12
This might look a little deceptive like. 00:39:13
We're going to have that 2028 peak. 00:39:15
So I'm a major portion of that is. 00:39:17
Like like Blvd. 00:39:20
That's, you know, $5,000,000. Can you detail what that project is for us? 00:39:22
Josh Campbell. 00:39:28
This is a project that's the city staff has been planning on for a while to. 00:39:32
Current Lake Blvd. 00:39:36
That runs West of the downtown area. 00:39:39
Near the lake it's pretty narrow. 00:39:41
So they have a plan to widen it to be an acceptable. 00:39:43
Width to carry traffic in. 00:39:47
It can carry traffic in two ways right now, but it's fairly narrow right now. Yeah, it's the one on the lakeside. It's the. 00:39:50
You know, that's the plan. Yeah. So that's kind of like the beachfront. 00:39:57
Promenade Area slash Road and the improvements of that dream. 00:40:03
And. 00:40:08
One of the reasons why. 00:40:09
We ran with like. 00:40:11
Where is the money for any of that, right? 00:40:13
If you look at that, it has Piers and restaurants and. 00:40:16
All this grandiose thing with no. 00:40:20
Budget and I don't think this Council. 00:40:23
Even knows about that. 00:40:25
Plan or the details of it or? 00:40:27
I think that that. 00:40:29
And speaking with the the state of Utah, we need to review that plan and make sure we're all aligned because it's not a lot of 00:40:30
it's not even on our property. 00:40:34
So a lot of the. 00:40:40
You know, and I'm looking at some of these plans. 00:40:42
I think I think the. 00:40:46
Some of these things were based off of the previous Council, as if some of these things were actually going to happen. 00:40:48
And I think it would be wise to have the Council revisit each one of them. 00:40:53
But also look at each one of them because some of some of them are so grandiose. 00:40:58
In size, as I remember two years ago I was like. 00:41:02
Looking at our budget, how can we shrink this down? Look at this budget. 00:41:06
How can we shake this down? Because we don't have. 00:41:09
The business community. 00:41:12
For the eyes of that. 00:41:14
And nor do we have the appetite to. 00:41:16
To be able to do that. 00:41:20
So we've got to push out that Lake Blvd. 00:41:22
Plan. What would it do to that peak? Would it lower quite a bit? It would. I mean, that's a 4x4 million, Yeah, that's 4.8 million. 00:41:25
Back would fill in that hole. We have a trough there too, Yeah, I mean so. 00:41:32
Just to also clarify that on this particular. 00:41:37
Capital project list of Lake Blvd. is to get to a point where it's a serviceable like as a regular 2 lane Rd. 00:41:40
Any plans? 00:41:46
Or potential plan? Excuse me, any potential plans for the? 00:41:48
The waterfront. 00:41:51
In terms of peers, etc etc is not part of that. 00:41:52
Particular Rd. if for any reason this is. 00:41:56
I'm still speaking on hypotheticals. Any for any reason that there is a. 00:41:59
Capital project for the city to turn that into any other type of roads, roadway with the Piers, et cetera, et cetera. 00:42:03
Then the funds that would be. 00:42:10
Utilized. 00:42:12
In order to do those types. 00:42:13
To bad capital project. 00:42:15
Could be used to offset. 00:42:16
The Lake Blvd. cost as of right now and Josh. 00:42:19
Can speak on this and he actually brought. 00:42:23
The analysis and brought up to see if we can. 00:42:25
Help subsidized part of the like. 00:42:27
Blvd. using impact fees because. 00:42:29
Typically is about increasing capacity. 00:42:32
But when you hire experts like Josh right there, you take the fine tooth comb to say. 00:42:35
The row currently is not functioning at. 00:42:40
The level of service. 00:42:43
We just built a brand new road over there, the Vineyard Connector extension. Yes Sir. 00:42:45
That covers that. 00:42:49
To travelers the same distance. 00:42:50
I mean inland, a few 100 yards. 00:42:52
But still you can get. 00:42:54
Yeah, to the Linda Marina, for example. Much faster that way. Yeah, there's always, there's always a. 00:42:55
Apologize for cutting off. There's always possibilities to defer those types of capital projects and it does. The only thing comes 00:43:01
down to is like risk based and analysis. 00:43:05
For example, the road currently is so got. 00:43:10
And Chris Thomas can speak on it. He's got a lot of potholes. It had a lot of natural. 00:43:12
Speed bombs. 00:43:16
As well, there's no curb and gutter. 00:43:17
On that, so the edges of the roads are peeling off. 00:43:19
As well. And then it just comes down to risk based analysis I think. 00:43:23
One of our proposals we were talking about is blowing the speed limit on that road. 00:43:27
To currently I think it's 30 miles an hour. 00:43:31
Yeah, and then we're. 00:43:34
Potentially lowering the speed limit on that road mainland not mainly because of the. 00:43:35
Safety concerns. 00:43:39
On that as well, but again, we can defer that. 00:43:40
Particular road and. 00:43:43
All that is just come down to their risk based analysis. 00:43:45
I recall that Rose was to be rerouted somewhat. 00:43:47
If we ever did put the peers all those other. 00:43:51
General plan stuff in it wouldn't exactly follow the same. 00:43:53
Footprint that it is now, for example, it would be. 00:43:57
Moves a bit right? 00:43:59
So there's a lot of engineering to do with that as well when the time comes to build that road. 00:44:00
No, that's a very good point, Sir. 00:44:05
Yeah. 00:44:07
OK. Thank you. 00:44:09
Let's continue on with that. I think that this what this slide. 00:44:11
Feels like to me is. 00:44:15
This is just going to be an exercise with, with this new council of, you know, budgetary. 00:44:16
Priorities, I guess, more than anything else. Agreed. 00:44:20
Matching the fee or whatever we come up with. 00:44:23
With our with our new budget, can I share a thought really quick? 00:44:25
So when I look at this. 00:44:29
Slide in particular. 00:44:31
Keep in mind we're in 2026 now. 00:44:33
So it's been a few months. My apologies since this was presented. 00:44:35
But you're showing. 00:44:39
Between. 00:44:41
Essentially now the start of 2026 and the 2028 peak. 00:44:42
$15 million in expenses. 00:44:46
And if it's not on the top of your head? 00:44:50
Our city's total budget. 00:44:52
Is roughly $15 million, so over the course of the next. 00:44:55
Three years you're talking about. 00:44:58
3637% of all revenues. 00:45:00
Going to transportation maintenance. 00:45:03
Well, one of the reasons I want to push that out a bit. 00:45:07
Yeah. And as a reminder. 00:45:13
That's why you have this piece of. 00:45:16
Proposed debt there to. 00:45:18
To spread that over because your your point is well taken, you wouldn't be able to fund that with cash. 00:45:20
It just isn't feasible for you to fund that. So that's why there was an assumption of debt. But Mayor, to your point, I think. 00:45:25
You know, looking at this. 00:45:33
Doing an exercise and saying can we prioritize this and shift it around? We already have the infrastructure. 00:45:34
Excel infrastructure built to just. 00:45:40
Let that fall in and reallocate how that fee would shake out. 00:45:42
For sure it's a tenure. 00:45:47
So I'll just take. 00:45:49
A slight turn now from. 00:45:51
This information which is. 00:45:53
This is the. 00:45:56
How we generate the annual revenue requirement? How much money do we need? 00:45:57
Every year and we try to do it in a way that is smooth. So you can see this is that's the effort is not to have. 00:46:01
Large increases in the fee revenue, but to make. 00:46:07
This a very. 00:46:11
Smooth graph. So even though you know Councilman from a cumbers point, you need a 15,000,000. 00:46:13
We're trying to do it in a way that. 00:46:18
You're only needing like 3 million. 00:46:20
Getting up to 5 million and then smoothly increasing that up overtime. 00:46:23
And the way that the previous Council determined to do that was? 00:46:28
Which is going to go back to the original. 00:46:33
The first part of the slide deck here, which is. 00:46:36
The options that were requested. 00:46:38
Which is. 00:46:41
So now let me just talk about how the actual rate was. 00:46:42
Put together to have that smooth revenue and do it in a manageable way. 00:46:45
So the annual revenue requirement for 2026 was one point. 00:46:51
8 million, that was what we're trying to. 00:46:54
Cover with the fee. It will be more than that in the future year because this was only halfway through your fiscal year. 00:46:57
So you only can collect half of it. So next year it would be. 00:47:04
Like a $3.5 million revenue requirement, which again we can. 00:47:07
Change that as we look at those projects. 00:47:11
The way in which the fee was. 00:47:14
Calculated was to look at. 00:47:16
All of these categories we. 00:47:19
These were the categories we selected. 00:47:21
As staff and consultants. 00:47:23
You could have been much more granular. 00:47:26
Could have just had one set fee. 00:47:29
Cities do it. 00:47:31
Many different ways, but this seemed like a logical separation between categories. 00:47:31
Of users, so residential. 00:47:38
Office. 00:47:40
Retail. Commercial. 00:47:41
Light industrial and flex space. 00:47:43
And hails has you know they use. 00:47:45
Manuals that have nationwide statistics to show how much. 00:47:49
Trip generation occurs. 00:47:53
In each of these categories so that we can proportion out who should pay what fee. 00:47:55
When this view was adopted there there is no statutory. 00:48:01
State statutory. 00:48:04
Guidance on how this fee should be calculated. 00:48:06
That is. 00:48:09
Now change. There's been a bill that was. 00:48:10
Those last week was adopted. 00:48:13
There's no reason to assume that the governor would veto that bill, and it is more specific that you have to have a very. 00:48:15
Clear link between. 00:48:22
The fee you charge. 00:48:24
And the impact or the benefit that the end user? 00:48:25
Experiences. 00:48:29
So that there's just a logical, common sense reason why you're charging the fee you're charging. 00:48:30
This was our. 00:48:36
Effort to make that. 00:48:37
That determination. 00:48:39
So. 00:48:41
One ERU or one equivalent residential unit. 00:48:42
Was the basis for our analysis. 00:48:46
And we use chip. 00:48:48
Trip generation by category. 00:48:49
And then weighted that. 00:48:51
By axle load. 00:48:53
So for an illustrative. 00:48:55
Thought on this if you think about your. 00:48:57
Your one car and its impact when you drive on the road is significantly different than if an 18 Wheeler drives that makes that 00:49:00
same trip. 00:49:04
So if you just do trip generation. 00:49:09
You missed the fact that. 00:49:12
That one trip from a large vehicle. 00:49:14
Has a. 00:49:17
A more damaging impact to your Rd. 00:49:18
So this second third column of information shows the multiplier. 00:49:21
Of impact. 00:49:26
For different uses. So for example if the impact for one residential unit is 1. 00:49:28
Than 1000 feet of. 00:49:33
Office space. 00:49:35
Is the equivalent of. 00:49:36
3.8. 00:49:37
Residents. 00:49:38
Residential impacts. 00:49:40
For retail commercial 7.7, for light industrial 9.23, and for flex space 3.94. 00:49:41
So that multiplies the amount of. 00:49:49
How many? 00:49:52
True ER use or equivalent residential units you have on your Rd. roadways. 00:49:52
So you basically have about 20,000. 00:49:57
Equivalent, Uh. 00:49:59
Residential. 00:50:01
Households when you look at. 00:50:02
Transferring those over from the commercial side. 00:50:04
So then the fee was just simply divided by hey, we need 1.8 million, how do we get that from? 00:50:07
19 or 20,000 Eru's. 00:50:13
Then you just simply do the division. 00:50:16
And and and this residential. 00:50:18
Number originally was $9. 00:50:22
And the previous council said, hey, that that's probably more than we think. 00:50:24
Then a user is going to a resident is going to want to pay, so let's reduce that down in the first year and we'll build up to $9 00:50:28
by year 3. 00:50:32
But the the office retail. 00:50:37
The commercial section. 00:50:40
Give them the fee that they. 00:50:42
Ultimately needed. 00:50:43
To make this program work. 00:50:45
So that's a summary of how. 00:50:47
The analysis was undertaken. 00:50:49
To get at these fees. 00:50:51
So any questions or thoughts on that? 00:50:53
What? 00:50:57
Economic analysis was done to look at the 2nd and 3rd order effects of this policy. 00:50:58
That was not in. 00:51:03
Within our scope. 00:51:04
So we didn't. We did not do that. 00:51:05
Weren't asked to do that analysis of what the economic impact would be. 00:51:08
For the record, some of those fees. 00:51:18
Are more than. 00:51:20
Rental. 00:51:21
The business would have for their. 00:51:23
Their business significantly, yes. 00:51:25
I had a business call and say the fee was more than. 00:51:27
Their rent, Monthly rental, yeah. 00:51:31
Could I ask actually in the back? 00:51:33
Maybe cash you might know. 00:51:35
When this was being looked at, do you know if there was actually any? 00:51:38
Comparison between what buildings were zoned as versus what types of businesses were actually inside of them. 00:51:42
I wasn't a part of this analysis at all. I don't know if Naseem. 00:51:50
Can speak to that because it would I would. 00:51:52
I guess one of my concerns. 00:51:55
Was that we had businesses reaching out over the course of the past week. They got their, you know, utility bills. They're 00:51:57
frustrated. 00:52:00
But one of the common themes was you have. 00:52:04
Essentially. 00:52:07
Retail or service businesses operating in warehouses that are zoned as maybe light industrial, and they're getting hit with these 00:52:08
huge fees. 00:52:13
When they're not. 00:52:17
Actually part of the problem. 00:52:18
Yeah. So it was based on their business license. So what was what we what they did is they when they implemented it. 00:52:20
They took their business licenses that we have on file. 00:52:27
And use that as the basis in terms of what category they would be on. 00:52:31
So, and is that business license detailing actually like? 00:52:36
This is a retail business but operating in a warehouse because I know for example, the one that got really popular on on Facebook 00:52:39
this week. 00:52:44
Is a video production studio. 00:52:48
But they operate out of a big warehouse. But obviously a video production studio isn't a light industrial company, but they were 00:52:51
being charged the light industrial rate. 00:52:54
Yeah. So I'm not sure. I can't speak on what their business license actually showed. That would be our finance department and our 00:52:59
business licensing department would have that. 00:53:03
But. 00:53:07
I do recall that some of the businesses had went back to. 00:53:08
Make the corrections under your business license. 00:53:12
In order to make those correct to make that correction. 00:53:14
But also. 00:53:18
There are instances that. 00:53:19
Where there are instances where you know the adjustments we would have to we would make the adjustments like OK, this is what the 00:53:22
use because. 00:53:25
On this table in comparison to the table that we took that engineers typically use. 00:53:28
Is the ITE. 00:53:33
Trip end table. The Institute of Transportation Engineers. 00:53:36
Table. 00:53:40
Which is. 00:53:41
Joshua uses it on a daily basis is like, you know. 00:53:42
Like. 00:53:45
I don't know, like probably like 50-60, seventy pages long. 00:53:47
Details out all the different types of businesses from. 00:53:51
A fast food to a bang to. 00:53:54
A Probably like a grocery stand. 00:53:56
As well. And of course. 00:53:59
We had to make the court. We made the correlation from that to the. 00:54:02
User type here based on. 00:54:06
You know, to business licenses. 00:54:08
Close as possible. 00:54:11
Yeah. Just to speak on that. So we have data for. 00:54:12
A lot of land uses, you know. 00:54:14
Dozens of land uses we could use the. The direction we were given was. Let's try to categorize it by. 00:54:16
5 categories. So one option that we could consider would be. Let's try to break it down more that way we have. 00:54:22
Kind of a wider range. 00:54:28
The challenge there is. 00:54:30
How to tie that back to a business license, I would say, you know. 00:54:32
How many categories do you have for business licenses would be the question. 00:54:35
And do we want to have a category for each one that? 00:54:38
All I want to say is we have data we can provide. 00:54:42
There could just be limitations on how you tie it to your categorization. 00:54:45
Internally. 00:54:48
I have some thoughts. Just kind of a four week we worry about kind of going into a more granular exercise. 00:54:53
I think the main crux of the issue is that. 00:54:59
The fee is just too high for. 00:55:02
A1 year jump. 00:55:04
I mean residential. It sounded like we. 00:55:06
We considered. 00:55:09
The impact of phasing that in. 00:55:10
But we can't just overnight go from a business having. 00:55:12
$200 a month. 00:55:16
Monthly rate to. 00:55:19
You know, over 2000. 00:55:20
It's just, it's not. 00:55:22
Practical for. 00:55:25
Our goal is. 00:55:26
Having more economic development eventually offset the need for these fees. 00:55:28
Like if we look at that chart on the revenues, if you want to scroll back to that slide where it's got the. 00:55:32
The green and the yellow to orange. 00:55:37
In the light green. 00:55:40
Our assumption. 00:55:41
Is that our? 00:55:43
Transportation tax basically stays flat. 00:55:45
For the next. 00:55:47
And years and if we keep the speed in place as is, that will certainly guarantee that that that's the case. 00:55:48
Because businesses won't want to. 00:55:55
They come into Vineyard and. 00:55:57
And Peyton's fees so. 00:55:59
I think I think the main. 00:56:01
The issue we need to start looking at and the only thing that's really going to solve the more urgent. 00:56:03
Need that we have is to. 00:56:08
To reevaluate what projects we are. 00:56:09
Doing this year. 00:56:11
Recognize that. 00:56:14
Pushing off some projects is going to. 00:56:15
Cost more in the long run. 00:56:18
But. 00:56:20
The hope is that we can get. 00:56:21
Either through. 00:56:23
That financing or transportation, whatever the Council wants to determine. 00:56:25
Is that if we can? 00:56:30
Not have all these impacts felt in year 1? 00:56:32
Then that will help us continue to grow our. 00:56:35
Our sales tax base to eventually get the revenues we need, we just can't cover all these expenses through. 00:56:38
Through fees. 00:56:44
I think especially the capital. 00:56:46
Projects. I mean those those. 00:56:49
Kind of redevelopments on projects, some of these we're just going to have to deal with, like Blake Road for example, that's a 00:56:51
great one where we just have to continue to deal with. 00:56:54
The fact that that road is not going to be well maintained. 00:56:58
You know, it's, it's what we've been dealing with in the last. 00:57:02
New Year's and vineyards. 00:57:04
It's messy Rd. It's full of cracks, potholes. 00:57:06
And that's just something we have to be OK with recognizing. 00:57:10
Hey, we're going to try to steer traffic over to Vineyard Connector, use some of our alternate routes. 00:57:13
But I don't think there's a way for us to get out of this without recognizing that some of these roads have to. 00:57:18
Going to be left to begin. No state of major disrepair. 00:57:24
And that's just going to be the. 00:57:27
That's just what we have to do until we get. 00:57:29
The sales tax revenue, we need to fix those roads. 00:57:31
Council, how do you guys feel about that approach it's looking? 00:57:38
And this year's budget kind of identifying, OK, what, what pavement preservations can we put off? 00:57:41
What Rd. projects can we? 00:57:46
Take off this fee. 00:57:48
So that we can ultimately lower the fees significantly for this year. 00:57:50
And. 00:57:54
Have a longer conversation of. 00:57:56
Are looking into next year. 00:57:57
What? What should these fees look like? 00:57:59
And how can we? 00:58:02
How can we introduce them? 00:58:04
I know that the state also provides some limitations on on what we can charge, so there was some urgency on. 00:58:05
On getting something in place. 00:58:11
Before the end of the year I feel like. 00:58:12
But ultimately, we need to. 00:58:15
We need to reevalu. 00:58:17
This and make it a lot more granular. 00:58:19
I think it's necessary that we reassess, like you said, the reality is. 00:58:23
That the fees Vineyard already wasn't a very business friendly place. 00:58:28
Like regardless of what narratives might have been pushed. 00:58:32
Looking at the reality of the fee structure. 00:58:35
Of the rates that it costs to lease here. 00:58:38
At the. 00:58:40
Like common area management fees that developers have been charging. 00:58:41
Tenants. 00:58:46
It has made it very difficult and that's why Vineyard. 00:58:47
Businesses haven't grown as quickly as we would like to see. 00:58:50
And then you put this on top of it and now we're getting a lot of outreach. I mean, I got a lot of outreach. I'm assuming you guys 00:58:53
did too, about people who are ready to leave. 00:58:57
Over this fee. 00:59:01
So when I asked about the economic 2nd and 3rd order effects, what I mean is there's no way in hell we actually get $1.7 million 00:59:02
out of this because all of the businesses are just going to leave. 00:59:06
Nobody wants to pay those rates. 00:59:11
So I think it's. 00:59:13
Expedient. 00:59:15
That we. 00:59:16
Find alternative ways to fund what's necessary. 00:59:18
And we cut what we can cut. 00:59:21
Or, uh. 00:59:23
Delay what we can delay? 00:59:24
As much as possible while we generate the sales tax revenue, I think that's necessary. 00:59:26
I I would agree. 00:59:33
One, one thing I think would be well taken and maybe Evan can speak to this as well and David as well is, is I've taken over, we 00:59:34
have found some significant savings. 00:59:38
And left, right and center. 00:59:42
That we can apply to these things as we kind of go along and. 00:59:44
Evan. Evan. 00:59:49
Do you want to talk to? Are you prepared to speak a little bit on this meeting, kind of what you're seeing in the? 00:59:51
In the finance and. 00:59:56
Side of things. 00:59:58
Special welcome to Evan. 00:59:59
Yeah, yeah. After a trial by fire. Welcome to the city. Yeah. 01:00:01
So the little bit that I can see after after being here a week, right? 01:00:07
Diving into this, my first impression is that. 01:00:12
There are some ways that we can. 01:00:17
Potentially save some money. 01:00:19
I've already talked with with Naseem about. 01:00:21
There's some capital expenditures. It's not huge. 01:00:25
But. 01:00:28
There are some that we can delay. 01:00:30
And need to delay. 01:00:32
So there's some hard decisions that need to be made there potentially to save. 01:00:34
Save some costs, but. 01:00:38
As that. 01:00:40
Tax base continues to grow. That should provide some additional ways to fund we have some. 01:00:41
Reserve from prior years, but that won't. 01:00:48
Last, if we only lean on that. 01:00:51
That's where I'm at, at least for this year. I, I think we can find a way to. 01:00:55
Minimize this impact. 01:01:00
And to your point, delay. 01:01:02
And or revisit it. 01:01:05
Look at some different ways to. 01:01:07
I look at this 41 million in the in the capital expenditures and and. 01:01:09
Reassess that. 01:01:15
I don't know all the detail that went in there yet and haven't had a ton of time to look at that particular component, but that's 01:01:16
what's driving. 01:01:19
Most of this. 01:01:22
Thanks, Evan. 01:01:23
Could I ask Evan, and I don't expect you to have an answer right now, but would you look into? 01:01:25
Just other sources. 01:01:30
Of revenue that maybe the city hasn't been leveraging appropriately. 01:01:32
One of the things that I was curious about was. 01:01:36
Adjustments to impact fees, we've kind of touched on that a little bit. 01:01:38
Based on this presentation. 01:01:42
A lot of the. 01:01:44
And this is the thing that drives me crazy. Sorry. 01:01:46
Vent for a minute. 01:01:48
The biggest contributor of the damage to the roads? 01:01:50
Subsequently, then. 01:01:54
The necessity for the pavement preservation. 01:01:55
Is the developers with their? 01:01:58
Big construction vehicles, the dump trucks, the RDA cleanup, it's all of those kind of things. 01:02:00
Which is frustrating to me because. 01:02:05
Without the ability to. 01:02:08
Use impact fees for pavement preservation. 01:02:10
The biggest driver of that need? 01:02:13
Isn't actually able to be charged for that. 01:02:16
So. 01:02:19
I like what you said about. 01:02:20
Cutting down. 01:02:21
And reevaluating some of these capital expenditures. 01:02:23
Could you look at? 01:02:25
I'm not under the impression that the city gets a significant. 01:02:27
Amount of. 01:02:30
Return on investment. 01:02:33
To like the PTIF account that we have invested through the state treasurer, could you look at, you know, where is that money just 01:02:34
being reinvested? How can we use maybe things that we have as tools immediately to. 01:02:40
Alleviate the pain point that we're in. 01:02:45
Yeah, we can. We can look at that. What I do see is that that. 01:02:49
That interest earned on. 01:02:53
P TIF account was was. 01:02:55
Put back into the budget. And so it's not, it's not sitting there unused. It's it's all. 01:02:57
Allocated but as. 01:03:02
As things are shaking out and I need to. 01:03:03
Spend a little more time to project. 01:03:06
Where things are going to end. 01:03:08
End up at the end of the year, but I foresee that there's. 01:03:09
Some opportunity there to have at least a little bit. 01:03:13
That we can apply there, but it's it's all been. 01:03:17
Accounted for, budgeted, the expense has been budgeted against that. 01:03:19
Not revenue. 01:03:24
I I support. 01:03:26
I I support Councilman. 01:03:28
Suggestion of going reviewing every single. 01:03:30
Expenditure in terms of size. 01:03:34
Timing. 01:03:36
And adjusting it as necessary. 01:03:38
And I think that is a is a stopgap. 01:03:40
I also think this is a cautionary tale. 01:03:43
Of the vineyard was an experiment. 01:03:47
Let's put 60% of our land. 01:03:50
And give a lower rate to a developer. 01:03:52
And see if we can survive. 01:03:55
On that, and we're learning we can. 01:03:58
And let's speed it all up. 01:04:00
And hope that business is common. They didn't. 01:04:02
And so when they didn't. 01:04:05
The answer right now is not to go anti business. 01:04:07
And double their, I mean, they're going to pay a transportation fee that's the same as their rent. 01:04:11
Six businesses called me and said. 01:04:17
As soon as they're. 01:04:19
Agreement is up. They would be moving because why wouldn't they go to the other side of Geneva Rd. into Orem? 01:04:21
If they're paying double the rent right? So we can't chase them off that this isn't the solution. 01:04:27
The solution is. 01:04:33
A stop sign. 01:04:34
It's slow down. 01:04:36
You have to and it's. It's such a basic principle. 01:04:38
And I'm glad I don't have to teach this to my wife because my wife calls me and says. 01:04:42
When I was young. 01:04:46
Stop spending. 01:04:47
And that's what you have to do, and there's not a silver bullet. 01:04:49
Or anything like that. 01:04:53
You have to be patient and you have to wait. 01:04:55
And the businesses come great. 01:04:57
But if they don't, you have to be more patient. 01:05:00
And you have to wait. You can't. 01:05:02
Build it. 01:05:04
And and hope that there's this. 01:05:05
Crazy thing. 01:05:07
And then you got to have to. 01:05:08
Have oversight of your RDA. 01:05:10
And just make sure. 01:05:13
And this is. 01:05:14
Again, a cautionary tale. 01:05:15
That's what I think all of us ran on was. 01:05:17
Is RDA money going to make money building a parking structure? 01:05:20
No. Is it going to make money building a swimming pool? 01:05:24
No. Is it going to make money? 01:05:27
Building the islands. 01:05:29
No, we have to look at at the RDA money as as it originally was for. 01:05:30
It's got to bring in business and tax revenue and that's it. It has to be refocused. 01:05:38
To bring to be so probusiness and. 01:05:43
And and that's what it. 01:05:46
That's what it was designed for, and we lost our way. 01:05:47
I would just say. 01:05:50
100%. 01:05:51
Support Councilman there. 01:05:53
We can't throw this on our business and we've got a. 01:05:54
But long term. 01:05:56
Foundational structure of the RDA has to change. 01:06:00
Evan, can I ask about? 01:06:04
In our last City Council meeting, we talked. 01:06:06
Maybe 2 council meetings ago now, we talked about sales tax Nexus wasn't being applied to the Utah City developers and they 01:06:08
actually brought that forward and said. 01:06:12
That that was something that we could. 01:06:17
Implement. 01:06:19
To generate significant tax revenue for the city. 01:06:20
Is that an Ave. that you've been able to pursue at all or learn about it all? 01:06:23
So this is the first time hearing about that. I was here last council meeting last week. 01:06:28
No worries, but I think you look into that for the. 01:06:33
The next council meeting, then in. 01:06:36
A week or. 01:06:38
I mean, if that's OK, if we just get an update on it, essentially they came forward and they shared Utah State code. 01:06:40
Allows for significant purchases to be. 01:06:46
Taxed at the rate of the municipality or go to the municipality that the sale is being. 01:06:50
Completed or delivered to. 01:06:56
And that that was something that the previous administration and finance director weren't using. 01:06:58
And so if. 01:07:02
That's an Ave. that we can actually pursue. 01:07:03
I think that that's something that would be very expedient to look into getting set up and and make sure that we're taking 01:07:06
advantage of that. 01:07:09
Yeah. Who would have more details on that? 01:07:14
Who do you want to? The State Tax Commission can help us out on that. 01:07:16
We can give them a call. 01:07:21
And OK. 01:07:22
I can help you with that. And Zach, can you connect him maybe with? 01:07:24
Peter Nader. 01:07:28
We can. We can have. 01:07:30
Follow up conversation about that, I can give some more information there. OK is awesome. Yeah, either way. But it's better that 01:07:31
they get paid to us than it is for them to get paid to. 01:07:35
So whoever. 01:07:40
So I'm hearing that we agree on the direction, but we're not going to get here today going line by line through each. 01:07:41
Project. So I think the directive here to put a button on it is. 01:07:47
In the next since this is so imperative to our business community, this is going to really hurt our brand business community. 01:07:52
Mayor we. 01:07:55
Have Curtis Blair here from the oh, does he want to speak? 01:07:59
Well, I mean, just just a comment. Should I head up on? Yeah, come on. 01:08:02
It's been great to observe this. I will say, first of all, I applaud. 01:08:08
Vineyard City for looking at innovative ways. 01:08:12
To resolve a. 01:08:15
A tricky web of. 01:08:18
Of logistics. 01:08:21
And keeping an eye on the future of Vineyard. 01:08:23
When I hear language about being probusiness, I. 01:08:26
Obviously align with that 100%, so first of all. 01:08:29
Congratulations on looking for innovative ways. 01:08:33
There are local governments. 01:08:36
That choose a different path. 01:08:39
And that is? 01:08:41
If you can't fee it or tax it. 01:08:43
That find it? 01:08:45
And that. 01:08:47
Does lead to a slowdown in a friendly business environment and it almost brings it to a crushing halt. 01:08:48
So the fact that you're sensitive to. 01:08:54
How you fund and grow. 01:08:57
A brand where Vineyard is known as a business friendly ecosystem is a super positive thing. I love the idea of the experiment. 01:08:59
The America Dream is an experiment. We've learned a lot from our. 01:09:08
Are lessons of the past and I think this council has as well, and I just applaud the innovative approach, the way that you look at 01:09:12
other ways than just finding, feeing or taxing it. 01:09:17
To fund long term growth and have the business ecosystem in mind when you do that, that that to me is the American dream is is to 01:09:21
participate in the small business experiment. So thank you. 01:09:27
Well, and Curtis, while you're here. 01:09:34
We need your help. 01:09:35
We we have Rdas. 01:09:37
We need to swing for business. 01:09:40
And we? 01:09:42
I mean, I've. 01:09:44
We don't want to harp on the past, but we want to learn from it. 01:09:45
The RDA money was meant to. 01:09:48
To go and get a great. 01:09:50
Big. 01:09:52
Geneva still closed and it was like. 01:09:52
We have to create. 01:09:55
A revenue source and it hasn't. 01:09:56
And so. 01:09:59
Some of your best strengths can be humility. 01:10:01
In saying. 01:10:03
We need your help. We need to find it, Yeah. 01:10:05
And. 01:10:08
We need the state's help. 01:10:09
Because we're small vineyard. 01:10:11
We do not have the, we have not had the expertise to run the RDA in the way in which it. 01:10:14
It should. We've taken a path to. 01:10:21
Quietly pass legislation to get rid of the largest school district and the state hasn't played a role at all. Like, they oversee 01:10:24
it a little bit, but they've allowed us to just do our thing. 01:10:29
And the biggest? 01:10:34
Some big businesses have not come here. And so I think sitting down with you guys of saying what could we attract, what, what 01:10:36
could be there? 01:10:39
And how can we maximize our RDA funds? Because we are a very centrally located place between 800 N and 1600 N It's right smack dab 01:10:43
in the middle of one of the best counties, but for whatever given reason. 01:10:49
It they're not coming and it's not. 01:10:55
Hey, put this transportation tax and double up. What's everything's going here? It's like, right? 01:10:58
No, we need to lower. We have to, we have to have that business community if it's about. 01:11:03
You know, living under our means or doing something like that. So I appreciate you coming in here because well, and you're right 01:11:07
Councilman, hold away because you know, if you lower the barrier of entry of doing business in Vineyard. 01:11:12
That is. 01:11:18
That's social lubricant. 01:11:19
Right, to get businesses to come here and and again, I applaud the innovation and approach that you're taking this because there 01:11:20
are other paths. 01:11:25
But they also don't. 01:11:29
They don't necessarily lead to vibrancy for an economy. And as goes Vineyard. 01:11:30
So we'll go Utah County. 01:11:35
That's why we're here today. 01:11:37
Is to just be a part of the dialogue and understand the issues that are on the table of what you're grappling with. I don't wish 01:11:38
this on my best friend, even though I consider Zach a very good friend. Mayor, this is a tough one to untangle. 01:11:45
But as goes Vineyard, so go Utah County. And as goes Utah County. 01:11:52
So go the state of Utah. 01:11:56
Yeah, OK. 01:11:57
Thank you. Appreciate that Curtis and. 01:11:58
And to your point, I think that when you. 01:12:00
Unfortunately or fortunately, I found myself in very challenging situations. 01:12:05
Like this in the past and the best way to solve them is kind of a. 01:12:09
D All of the above approach. 01:12:13
And, you know, we're going to have to really. 01:12:15
I mean, we're gonna have to really lean. 01:12:18
On the business community to help. 01:12:20
Vibrancy, we've got to, we are going to have to really run a very operationally efficient city. 01:12:23
That we have never. 01:12:30
To a level that hasn't been done in the past. 01:12:32
And. 01:12:35
You know we can't. 01:12:37
This fee I was just. 01:12:40
I was shocked and and frankly I was just very disheartened. 01:12:41
To hear. 01:12:47
So many stores from so many businesses that. 01:12:48
That are that will be leaving our city. 01:12:51
If we do not. 01:12:54
Basically. 01:12:56
Cut this in a. 01:12:57
Massive way. 01:12:59
And we just can't have that. 01:13:00
So we cannot kill the. 01:13:02
We can't shoot the horses pulling the wagon. 01:13:05
You just can't do that so. 01:13:08
Yeah. 01:13:11
So real quick, I think one urgent thing is to kind of identify what we want to do with the current bills. 01:13:13
I mean looking at this chart like. 01:13:19
Clearly the assumptions like we've got to rework these assumptions because even if. 01:13:22
Even if we. 01:13:26
Essentially. 01:13:28
Don't get, I mean this chart basically assumes no new business growth. 01:13:30
And also a portion of the transportation factor portion of the sales tax. 01:13:35
It's going to be population based for. 01:13:39
Or some of the. 01:13:44
I think we have to look at using our sales tax revenue just in general toward some of these operations and that. 01:13:45
We can kind of work into these. 01:13:51
These models on the front end. 01:13:53
Until we. 01:13:55
Get those businesses coming through so. 01:13:56
So, umm. 01:13:58
Rather than. 01:13:59
Like a moratorium on. 01:14:01
Collecting the fees. 01:14:04
What if we just went if you go down to the comparables? 01:14:05
There's AI mean. It looks like most of the comparable cities use a flat rate model. 01:14:08
What if we? 01:14:13
Use the flat rate model that kind of recognized the impact of. 01:14:14
You know, these light industrials are obviously going to have more impact on the roads than. 01:14:18
Residential. 01:14:22
But it's more of a. 01:14:25
Let's start with the flat rate fee that doesn't. 01:14:27
Necessarily scale up with. 01:14:30
Square footage, because that was the one that I saw a lot, where you have larger operations or larger buildings. 01:14:32
But they're not necessarily tied to. 01:14:38
The amount of trip ends that. 01:14:40
Are going to the businesses. 01:14:42
And so maybe we could just start with a flat rate model? 01:14:44
Kind of use fund balance. 01:14:47
Scale back on projects. 01:14:48
In these first year or two. 01:14:50
Maybe a year as we just reevaluate. 01:14:53
The fee in general. 01:14:55
And see how we can. 01:14:57
Kind of correct the assumptions and. 01:14:59
Yeah, the business is the same. 01:15:01
Leeway of. 01:15:04
Let's make sure this is. 01:15:05
Scaled smoothly and not. 01:15:06
This abrupt. 01:15:08
One year impact. 01:15:10
Cody, could I ask a question? 01:15:12
Just the comparables. So if. 01:15:15
Move towards like a pleasant. 01:15:17
View Model Pleasant Grove. 01:15:19
Or I'm looking at the last slide here. 01:15:22
Let's see here. 01:15:27
Did you do pleasant, Grover? 01:15:29
This one, sorry. Yeah, so. 01:15:32
Yeah, so pleasant got you. Or Pleasant Grove. 01:15:34
Can you explain to us? 01:15:36
So Council can understand what that would look like for the, for the taxpayer basically. 01:15:38
If you were to use Pleasant View, for example, yeah, I think that would be the fee. 01:15:43
You'd be instead of paying. 01:15:48
You pay $8. 01:15:49
OK if you're an industrial user. 01:15:51
Instead of. 01:15:53
Instead of 48. 01:15:54
Yeah, yeah. 01:15:56
Instead, Yeah, public view, I think that that's going to be way too small. I think. I think we've done some work on kind of 01:15:58
identifying the difference in the impact. 01:16:02
That pleasant view hasn't done. I mean that. 01:16:06
That's a tiny, tiny little. 01:16:08
Little town. 01:16:10
If we go down to like. 01:16:12
The others where we've got. 01:16:15
Just Scroll down. Yeah, so. 01:16:18
Like Provo for example. Like these are flat rates for Provo. The only one in here that's the per KSF is. 01:16:20
Is Kaysville. 01:16:26
And you can see their rates are. 01:16:27
Really really low per KSF. So like $9. 01:16:30
Compared to the $80.00 for KSF that we've got on light industrial or somewhere around there? 01:16:34
So if we wanted to go that route. 01:16:39
We got the lower it significantly. 01:16:41
Or we could just. 01:16:44
You know, built for a flat rate. 01:16:46
On. 01:16:48
On those based on based on the use. 01:16:50
I mean maybe the per KSF will be the easiest to. 01:16:53
They calculate and we just. 01:16:56
Lower it all down to the residential rate. 01:16:57
Multiplies off the. 01:17:01
Sport footage rather than. 01:17:02
Also adding the. 01:17:04
The use multiplier on there. 01:17:07
Like that's where. 01:17:09
I mean these speeds are. 01:17:11
Going out of control compared to, especially compared to the other fees like the water rates that they're they're dealing with 01:17:12
like. 01:17:15
Like the transportation is. 01:17:18
And it's multiplier of those right now based on our structure. 01:17:19
Just two cents for me. You really have two issues. You've really identified them already as one is how much? 01:17:25
Do we need annually? 01:17:30
And then how do we collect that those are the 2? 01:17:32
Components of the fee. 01:17:34
And so. 01:17:36
How do you lower the amount you need? 01:17:38
Annually. It's what you've been talking about. Let's go back and see. 01:17:40
How we can reduce the capital expenses and stretch them out? 01:17:43
Then the second is. 01:17:46
How do you want to go about collecting that fee? 01:17:47
And doing it in a way that is fair. 01:17:50
You don't have to use. 01:17:52
You don't have to use the methodology we've. 01:17:53
Chosen. 01:17:55
You could do it. 01:17:57
Purely on trip ends and not do it on accelerated. 01:17:58
Load because that's exponential towards those who have. 01:18:01
Larger vehicles going to their. 01:18:04
Facilities. 01:18:05
It just means that you're going to have to. 01:18:06
Shift that somewhere else. 01:18:08
Right, you have to shift that to residential or shift it to. 01:18:10
Just a standard retail commercial. So those are all things that. 01:18:13
Are fairly easily modeled. 01:18:17
You know we have. We have. 01:18:20
The basic model already. 01:18:21
Built. 01:18:23
So we can show you various scenarios of how to do that, but those are the 2 principles. 1 is you've got to lower the amount of 01:18:24
revenue that you. 01:18:27
Need now you can have that. 01:18:31
Subsidized or, or just or push off capital projects, those are really the only two ways you're going to do that. 01:18:33
And then second, do you want to shift? 01:18:38
Two different categories. 01:18:41
Thank you SO. 01:18:43
And we're happy to help with that full process. Thank you. 01:18:43
There is also a. 01:18:46
3rd. 01:18:47
Item that we need to discuss today and that is. 01:18:48
Yet last night. 01:18:51
The second invoices for. 01:18:53
Utility billing or send out. 01:18:55
And so. 01:18:58
How to handle? 01:18:59
Those that have paid. 01:19:01
And. 01:19:03
So what to do about? 01:19:05
The current invoicing. 01:19:07
And bills that have been sent. I I would instruct the mayor to do a press release about this and help them understand. 01:19:08
Were looking into it and that we held an emergency meeting today. 01:19:16
About it. 01:19:20
And that we probably should. 01:19:22
Have a realistic timeline to reassess. The business community isn't terrified. 01:19:24
You know, I got 6. I'm leaving the city. I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty scary, right? And. 01:19:29
And then we hope to have some information within. 01:19:35
I don't know what the time frame is because there's a lot going on, but I would also instruct and instruct staff. 01:19:38
Especially on some of those projects because I know a lot of those projects could be eliminated. 01:19:44
Or just the scope and size could be reduced significantly just looking. 01:19:48
You know, umm. 01:19:52
Just individually on those. 01:19:53
So we can come back together. 01:19:57
I don't know if two weeks is possible, but three weeks? Nope. 01:19:59
No Parkinson's Law work expands to fill the time that you allow. Thank you. I would like to revisit this on Tuesday. 01:20:02
At our City Council meeting. 01:20:09
I would like. 01:20:11
The staff to have. 01:20:12
Proposal A recommendation on what can be delayed, what needs to be funded immediately, where? Where those kind of recommendations 01:20:14
are. 01:20:17
And I would like. 01:20:21
Evan to have some recommendations based on. 01:20:21
Where we can have the fee structure in line with those. 01:20:25
Recommendations. 01:20:28
Or what what we can reduce this as so at least we can vote on something to? 01:20:29
Cut it and say. 01:20:32
In the reality, we could do this every single month. 01:20:34
Right that these bills go out. 01:20:37
And people get hit with another $5000 fee, right? Or, or even, you know, a couple $1000 on the smaller. 01:20:39
Businesses, right? 01:20:45
They are more inclined. 01:20:47
To just leave. 01:20:49
Yeah, to not stick around, to not hang around Vineyard and it's already an issue. 01:20:50
Where we have. 01:20:55
And sorry, separate conversation, but. 01:20:56
Yeah. I would like to give one example where I had a business owner say that they were getting their sewer and water fee for $300. 01:20:59
And their neck last month and then this last month they got a bill for $5000. 01:21:07
So that's. 01:21:13
Shift. 01:21:14
Like how mad you would be. 01:21:15
From 300 to 5000 monthly and go. 01:21:17
There's no way, you know, for water and they drive. 01:21:20
900 yards. We went and measured it. 01:21:24
Crossing Geneva Rd. 01:21:26
To get out on 1600 N and it was like I'm paying $5000 to drive light trucks. 01:21:29
A month so. 01:21:35
Yeah, we gotta. 01:21:36
I agree with that. I would second that. Are you putting a motion? 01:21:38
Well, we can't vote. 01:21:41
My yeah, I'm ready though. I'm ready. Can we issue that guidance and move quickly? 01:21:45
Yeah, umm. 01:21:50
This is the workstation items we can. 01:21:51
Motion. We can make a motion to. 01:21:53
Not a resolution, but a motion. 01:21:56
We can make a motion to tell staff to do things you would give. 01:21:58
Direction. Direction. 01:22:01
We can't make motions in this meeting, but yeah. 01:22:03
One thing. 01:22:07
I know you're here. 01:22:08
We want to try to get. 01:22:12
Materials on Friday. 01:22:13
So if we do have something on for this Tuesday, that's giving. 01:22:15
Staff 2-3 days basically to no Ezra. All we have to notice is what we're talking about. They can work through Monday on this. 01:22:18
They could even work through Tuesday day until the meeting in the evening. 01:22:27
I'll just notice it. Yeah, you just notice it. 01:22:32
Going to be enough to provide that. 01:22:35
Or do we want to just go like a moratorium route where we just. 01:22:36
Pause collecting. 01:22:40
That way we don't have that. 01:22:41
Can I recognize your your urgency? 01:22:43
Stop having this monthly fee that we know is. 01:22:45
Going to be lower. 01:22:48
In the future. 01:22:49
But maybe instead of? 01:22:50
Trying to throw. 01:22:52
A correct fee together. 01:22:54
Sooner. 01:22:56
We just kind of deal with the issue at hand of. 01:22:57
We know we, we know we've got to change this. We know we need to lower this. 01:23:00
Especially for the business community, residents don't seem. 01:23:04
To have the same concerns but. 01:23:07
Again, this is only. 01:23:09
$30,000 of the. 01:23:10
One point. 01:23:12
$8 million need that we have. 01:23:13
That we're getting from. 01:23:15
Our residents so. 01:23:16
Do we want to? 01:23:19
That look at more of the moratorium route or. 01:23:21
Evan, do you feel comfortable? Basically what I'm asking staff, do you feel comfortable? 01:23:23
With that timeline of. 01:23:27
Hey, let's put off everything else we've been working on to focus on this for five days because. 01:23:29
I know they've got other projects they're working on. 01:23:34
Well, let me speak to that as the. 01:23:36
Head of the staff and the whole situation, I think that. 01:23:40
I would feel more comfortable going the moratorium route. 01:23:43
I don't see this being a problem. 01:23:47
We have a systemic. 01:23:50
Fundamental. 01:23:52
Problem. 01:23:54
Here. 01:23:55
This was not created in. 01:23:56
Five days. Nor will we fix this in five days. 01:23:58
And I think that if we go the moratorium route. 01:24:03
It will give certainty and. 01:24:07
I can do the press release, I have it written. 01:24:10
It was a little spicy, so we need to back it off a little bit now that I've kind of slept on it. 01:24:12
It's ready to go, but what I'm saying is that we can. 01:24:18
We can. 01:24:22
Because it is going to come down. 01:24:23
And we don't know by how much, but we've got and I think. 01:24:26
We are going to need to go through the budget process. We are going to need to go through. 01:24:29
Things that. 01:24:34
I've been probably. 01:24:34
This feels like 6 weeks worth of work. 01:24:36
Till we get to a comfortable. 01:24:39
So you give it 3. 01:24:42
Three days, right? Three weeks, Anytime to. 01:24:44
So if we do that, if you just, if we have a little more time, do more torium on it and just pause it and then come back and 01:24:48
reassess it once we have more information. 01:24:52
In front of us because. 01:24:58
I think that that's the. 01:25:03
I think that would be the best. 01:25:05
Course of action right now. 01:25:06
After. 01:25:09
Kind of looking at the situation this totality, because again, this this was not created. 01:25:10
Five days ago. Nor will we fix this in five days. 01:25:15
This is a. This is a. 01:25:18
As I look at it, we've got a. 01:25:20
Fundamental. Umm. 01:25:21
Foundational problem here. 01:25:23
So, Mayor, can I make a motion that we. 01:25:25
I move that we. 01:25:28
Suspend this. 01:25:30
Tax relations fee for the time being until we can come back. 01:25:32
I have some clarifying questions if you don't mind. 01:25:37
Yeah, so as if you were constructed. 01:25:38
Have to prepare that moratorium resolution on Tuesday for Tuesday meeting. 01:25:42
So that way we put the. 01:25:47
Moratorium officially in place. 01:25:48
At the council meeting on Tuesday. 01:25:50
And go from there. 01:25:52
I I would. 01:25:54
And I know you were joking. 01:25:56
I getting the spice from the business community. I hope you don't take the edge off. 01:25:58
Because it needs to be edgy for the business community to know that we are serious like. 01:26:04
This isn't just talk. 01:26:10
We don't want to be. 01:26:13
Derogatory or anything, but I think it I would leave the energy and anger at there. 01:26:15
I think it's needed. 01:26:22
So that people understand that we're serious about being pro business. 01:26:23
I'll have Curtis sign off on it before I send. 01:26:28
I saw, well, even that he was here saying, hey, we're here to defend business, you know? 01:26:35
I still have a clarifying question. 01:26:40
Sorry, I have an opportunity. 01:26:44
We also want to issue refunds to those who have paid into it to. 01:26:46
Start with, I know. 01:26:50
Or at least I've heard that. 01:26:52
Businesses are just being told not to pay it. 01:26:54
I feel like we should be consistent, whatever it is we do. So if we're telling this is not a one week. 01:26:56
Why don't we prepare that moratorium? 01:27:01
To figure out how we can issue those refunds and then. 01:27:03
Put it on hold until I. 01:27:06
I would suggest a resolution about. 01:27:09
Refunds if that's the direction we want to go. 01:27:11
And we must have been. 01:27:13
Also need a fund balance transfer to fund. 01:27:15
We need to continue to fund roads, I think. 01:27:18
While we're looking at this and. 01:27:21
I feel like we've got enough fund balance to be able to do that in the interim. 01:27:23
Obviously, that's going to be at a cost. 01:27:27
I mean, if this is the route we want to go, I think it's important for the business community to make sure we do that. 01:27:29
OK, and this is the same I just have. 01:27:35
Actually, I had to clarify questions and Councilmember Ezra. 01:27:39
And there after that one. 01:27:44
My one question about making sure that the operations are still being funded. 01:27:46
So I appreciate that. Thank you very much. The last the other question, I just wanted to. 01:27:50
Get clarification on is the residential rate. 01:27:54
And I don't believe our Cody was able to speak on the residential rate tour when we did the initial calculation, the true value. 01:27:57
It was about $9. 01:28:05
Plus change. 01:28:07
Per, uh, use of pretty much per household. 01:28:08
And it was. 01:28:11
Direction was given to reduce that down to below 5. 01:28:13
$5. 01:28:15
So just want to. 01:28:17
Make sure the Council is aware that obviously, at the end of the day, we're. 01:28:18
Balancing the book. So when you reduce one rate, the other rates have to increase because of that. 01:28:22
I want to ask if Council's direction would be able to. 01:28:26
One, if we're able to. 01:28:29
Continue collecting on the residential rate as this currently stands at 475 per ERU. 01:28:32
And into if when we're doing our. 01:28:37
When we're recessing our calculations, if we're able to. 01:28:40
Allow the residential rate to be readjusted. 01:28:44
To possibly true cost. 01:28:46
Our legal counsel. 01:28:51
Riddle, uh. 01:28:53
In in council with me told me that we need to treat every account the same, so if we issue a moratorium, all of them are getting 01:28:56
moratoriumed. 01:28:59
That would be. 01:29:03
On residential and dinner. 01:29:04
Correct. 01:29:06
You. When I talked to him about it this week, he expressed that you can't treat the accounts differently. 01:29:07
Or you shouldn't as a best practice. 01:29:14
In that case, what if we just went to a flat rate of? 01:29:17
One the flat rates illustrated in option one. 01:29:21
That way we just keep the flat rate of. 01:29:27
475 for residents instead of doing it per thousand square foot. 01:29:30
And even $36 for office. 01:29:33
70 for retail, 84 for light industrial. 01:29:36
And that way we don't necessarily have to. 01:29:39
Moratorium the residents when we know that residential fee is going to be. 01:29:43
A component I would just take it away to. 01:29:46
Reintroduce it when it's not even. 01:29:48
The issue that we're trying to solve here. 01:29:50
I think we could work with. 01:29:56
Evans and come up with something like that. I don't think we want to agree here in the meeting on what exactly it is. 01:29:58
But just I agree with something like that of like let's look at what is realistic to make sure we're. 01:30:04
Collecting something? 01:30:10
And then come back on Tuesday and vote. 01:30:13
For this is just a holdover for the. 01:30:14
9 weeks that the mayor is needing to. 01:30:18
Put together the budget and finalize it and I think we could stay in the meeting that this is a stopgap measure. 01:30:20
Until that. 01:30:27
And then just one more thing and. 01:30:31
Get that? 01:30:35
Yeah, right there. 01:30:36
Yeah, just so crazy. We went all the way back full circle to what I was saying. 01:30:37
Yeah, just want to on Tuesday. 01:30:42
The finance director will be providing a budget adjustment as well. 01:30:46
For the. 01:30:49
To ensure that the Transportation Fund is continuing to be funded. 01:30:51
From another source I think I heard maybe potentially sales tax revenue. 01:30:55
On that is there any? 01:31:00
Particular type of posting that we have to do. 01:31:01
To ensure that that happens on Tuesday, kind of hand in hand with. 01:31:03
Any resolution in terms of? 01:31:08
Yeah. 01:31:09
Thank you, Nasimi. We can we can just get working on that. So thank you. 01:31:12
Any questions from staff regarding? 01:31:17
We we, one thumbs up or two thumbs up, just we'll take one thumbs up, one thumbs up. That's sufficient. 01:31:21
All righty guys. 01:31:29
OK. 01:31:30
Anything else? Thank you. 01:31:31
Thanks, Andra. 01:31:34
OK, I think that we are. 01:31:38
That concludes the transportation to. 01:31:41
Utility discussion. We're going to now enter the. 01:31:43
Roughly 30 minute recess. 01:31:46
Or should we just keep going well? 01:31:49
Are the Bluffs here and ready to present? 01:31:51
I'm sorry, is the staff ready to? 01:31:54
Talk about the Bluffs. 01:31:56
Or should we, let's just take a recess, let's take. I have to leave at 12:30. So if we could. 01:31:57
Do the 400 S. 01:32:02
Or any of the others? 01:32:04
Again, I'm a legal counsel, but I just want to make sure that I think we posted the recess that this would this would continue at 01:32:07
12:00. 01:32:11
People are planning on being here to start talking about that at 12, so. 01:32:15
Is there anything on the agenda we could do? 01:32:19
I don't think so. Notice that way. Yeah, there was notice this way and then we. 01:32:22
OK. All right. We'll enter into a recess. Thank you. 01:32:26
Until 12:00. 01:32:29
Oh, really? 01:32:50
I personally just like. 01:33:02
You're coming out of recess. 01:34:20
We've got first is 4.1 the Bluffs. 01:34:23
Project alignment. 01:34:26
Do I need to hit the gavel to pulse out resets? That's a great question. 01:34:28
Recess. 01:34:32
Adjourned. 01:34:33
All right, so. 01:34:36
Bluffs project. 01:34:38
Alignment. Umm. 01:34:39
I will turn the time over to staff to walk us through this. 01:34:42
Thank you, Kash Hansi, Senior Planner. I'll be giving a brief update on this project for the Council. 01:34:46
I do want to credit Madison Reduce our planning tech. She's done a lot of the work on this and helping coordinate. 01:34:51
The the project and. 01:34:57
Get us to this point. 01:34:58
So once this is ready I can. 01:35:00
Share my screen. 01:35:07
I'm not going to go too into the details on. 01:35:11
Kind of where the project has been, just kind of our next steps forward. 01:35:13
With some recent updates, there we go. 01:35:19
Sure takes a minute. 01:35:22
Just as a brief refresher, right here shows you the project background. 01:35:25
The project the the scope of the the work here. 01:35:29
It kind of is between the two trails. 01:35:31
But to the West of Lakefront neighborhood. 01:35:34
We've had some issues with the the landscaping, irrigation, slope and all that. 01:35:37
That that we're hoping to tackle. 01:35:41
So the current status of this is. 01:35:45
Could you turn the volume down? I'm getting it. 01:35:47
Some feedback here that generally there you go. 01:35:50
Good SO. 01:35:53
Last year staff was working on this project. We issued an RFSQ request for statement of qualifications. We received 6 bids or 01:35:54
submissions, not bids. They don't have any prices associated with them yet. 01:36:00
But we've essentially just asked for firms to provide us if they can. 01:36:05
Essentially help us design this this area the Bluffs. It would include, as mentioned here, sheeting benches, recreational 01:36:11
entertainment areas, Utah lake access points, dog wash stations, dog water fountains. 01:36:16
Bike racks. Trash cans. 01:36:22
And some open field space. 01:36:25
Grading and drainage and landscaping and irrigation as well. 01:36:28
We've essentially we've paused that process. I think we got those bids probably two or three weeks ago. We've kind of told them. 01:36:31
That we're waiting to have some direction. 01:36:36
Council on how to move forward with this. 01:36:38
But that's where we're at in terms of the bidding process. Essentially, this would give us a site plan document that we could then 01:36:41
take and get constructed. 01:36:45
So with that we went and met with FFSL. They recently have had some turnover with their project manager and so there's been some 01:36:51
lapse of coordination there. But we recently we met their new project manager for this area. 01:36:56
We met with them on February 25th. 01:37:03
Explained a rough idea of what we're hoping to accomplish here to get their buy in and support. They essentially said in order for 01:37:05
them to even think of reviewing this, they do have to have a site plan. So essentially that document that there are FSQ would 01:37:11
would provide for us to give us any feedback. But they essentially said this area does need to remain open and natural. We can't 01:37:16
prevent any kind of access to the lake. 01:37:22
Because it is state land. 01:37:28
But like I said, they they want any improvement. 01:37:30
To just be more natural than not. 01:37:32
So with that, we are just looking for some. 01:37:38
Feedback from the Council once we. 01:37:42
If we do get the direction to go ahead with our FSQ and choose a consultant firm. 01:37:44
Most likely bring it back to the City Council to vote on approval of that contract. 01:37:48
And then? 01:37:53
With that contract, we'd be able to get the site plan, we'd submit it to FFSL for review, it would take them a few months for for 01:37:54
approval on that and then we could move forward with the the actual construction of this area. 01:38:00
So with that. 01:38:09
I'm open to questions or feedback. 01:38:10
Can I ask? 01:38:13
Since you've got bids and you kind of shared what the. 01:38:14
Like additional amenities and things would be in line with that. What's the actual proposal for the landscaping of that? Since it 01:38:18
needs to be more natural, I would assume it's not just going and putting turf over everything, correct? Yeah, It would be using 01:38:23
more native plants. It'd be removing. I don't know if you've seen the existing conditions of that area. You live right by it, 01:38:27
right? 01:38:32
It's pretty horrendous. And so a lot of the the cost of this is actually going to be doing the grading and drainage and then very 01:38:36
minimal landscaping. They they have mentioned that that some grass or turf is loud but very minimal. We were hoping to have some 01:38:42
sort of like open field space that that kids could go play some soccer at or something like that. 01:38:48
But they are even hesitant towards grass and turf. 01:38:54
Yeah. I guess my question is really stemmed along if we're prioritizing the grading right, it just. 01:38:56
Because all of the vegetation in there right now is dead anyways, right? And I don't think it's just dead for. 01:39:02
You know, it's been winter and dry. I mean, it's just dead. Dead. Absolutely so. 01:39:07
There would need to be some kind of vegetation. 01:39:11
Natural plants put in there just to prevent runoff in the mudslide down onto the trail, correct? Correct. 01:39:13
So. 01:39:19
I would love to recommend that the. 01:39:22
Forestry, fire and state lands themselves have a seating program. 01:39:24
That have a. 01:39:28
They actually. 01:39:30
Harvest the seeds from the lake in different sections. 01:39:31
And allow them to. 01:39:34
Do a reseating of it. 01:39:35
It's all it's a very good natural grass they have. 01:39:37
Good root systems and it's actually the. 01:39:42
The vegetation that we ripped out of that. 01:39:45
It's very cheap, you can spread it out. 01:39:48
And. 01:39:51
That those types of grasses are good for. 01:39:51
Not creating a fire hazard. 01:39:55
But stopping erosion. And it actually would. 01:39:57
Blend well with. 01:40:01
With the existing landscape. 01:40:02
Of the hill, like the similar grasses that are there. 01:40:04
They usually will mix in. 01:40:08
Different sage brushes and different things that come in and it just. 01:40:10
Makes it. 01:40:15
Within a three-year process, it turns it back into a. 01:40:16
A very natural. 01:40:20
I mean, because it's so minimal, right? So are you asking for us to work with them on them doing the project themselves or No, I 01:40:23
would still work with them, but I would, I would consult with them absolutely like. 01:40:28
You know what grows here naturally Is is the best thing that actually comes back now I know the first year it'll. 01:40:34
It'll come up with kosher and other weeds, so that's not. 01:40:40
Setting but they. 01:40:44
Yeah, that's what I would recommend. Yeah. And that is our requirement with whatever consultant we work with is that they. 01:40:47
Have to have this working relationship with FSL to make sure. 01:40:53
What they are proposing meets their standards, so something like the seed mix would be a great point that we could include in into 01:40:56
our requirements as we move forward. 01:40:59
You mentioned with already having bids, is there money that's already budgeted for this? Yeah. So very Long story short. 01:41:03
Edge Homes was supposed to landscape this they. 01:41:10
Attempted to do so and it'll. 01:41:13
Bad job. There's a settlement with the city and in turn, the city withheld some reimbursement funds that they were going to pay to 01:41:15
edge homes, and that's the money allocated to fix the problem here. 01:41:21
I believe it's around $900,000. 01:41:26
And that's for everything. Grading, drainage. 01:41:30
Landscape and those irrigation in line with that. So, so because this is an RFP, we do not have any money associated with it. It's 01:41:32
just statement of qualification. So essentially saying here are similar projects we've worked on. 01:41:37
Here's why we're qualified. 01:41:43
Once we've. 01:41:45
Narrowed it down, we can then start negotiations on pricing. OK, thank you. 01:41:45
Can you talk about the other amenities you have? So I know. 01:41:50
There's talk about have like a couple of bar park benches along the trail as well. And then you said a bike. Yeah, yeah, very 01:41:53
minimal kind of what we do have along the trail or what was recently proved. So some bike repair stations potentially. 01:41:59
Potentially we could look at doing like a picnic table. There already is kind of a covered bench area there. 01:42:06
Really it's it's whatever the the council in the community wants and that's we've we've had a. 01:42:13
Open house at the lakefront neighborhood. 01:42:17
And I apologize, Madison's not here, but she is more aware of what the the residents there said that they would like to see in the 01:42:20
area. We've potentially looked at doing some sort of public restroom there as there's not a restroom on the trail there. And we've 01:42:24
also looked at at doing this volleyball court that we got a grant for in the area. 01:42:29
But it all is very minimal amenities. 01:42:34
So I think that. 01:42:42
Any direction? 01:42:44
From council to staff on this project, it sounds like so, just to a point of clarification. 01:42:45
There was a. 01:42:51
OK, so. 01:42:54
This is something also to bring up. 01:42:55
So we get we have a grant. 01:42:57
That we need to spend. 01:42:59
And it's for a volleyball court. It's like $22,000 or something. And I think we need another. 01:43:01
For this amenity to. 01:43:08
Call it off. 01:43:10
I think we need about. 01:43:13
75,000 I was told. 01:43:14
2500 something maybe I'm wrong? 01:43:17
I don't think it's 75,000. Yeah, I was get some railroad ties. Yeah, I was about to say this is a pretty expensive put some sand 01:43:21
down volleyball court. 01:43:25
But there's a project, we've got $22,000 for this volleyball court. It probably includes some other amenities to go with it. 01:43:29
But. 01:43:36
Is that grant from Horseshoe fire and state lands or from the county tours from the county, County tourism? 01:43:37
Oh, utility authority, so they're so it is from Utah League. Yeah, yeah. 01:43:45
Yes, I think I I called and found out about that Mayor, now that you sit on that, it's very flexible of like it doesn't have to be 01:43:49
volleyball. It can be adjusted to like what what they're wanting. 01:43:54
Just more generally beautification. 01:44:00
So we could adjust. 01:44:02
Whatever the needs are and just have the mayor take it back to the executive director and say, could we adjust this just a little 01:44:03
bit? Yeah, because the language is very flexible. 01:44:08
I talked to him about it. 01:44:12
Is there a time limit on the grant? 01:44:14
Yeah, I think there is. 01:44:15
I think it's actually, it's actually going to May, I think may this year, the volleyball grant. 01:44:17
We have to start. 01:44:23
So the question at hand is, is do we want to continue, Do we instruct staff to continue forward and basically? 01:44:25
Executing the, the and. 01:44:32
Getting this designed out so we can go to the market and get bids on it. 01:44:34
Cash. So it sounds like that part of the edge development. 01:44:38
Negotiation. I'll guess I'll just call it that. 01:44:43
Settlement. Whatever. 01:44:46
They we held out. 01:44:47
Roughly 900 correct Who? 01:44:49
To do that portion right there. OK, Yep, Yep. And so we'd use a portion of that 900 for the design and then we'd use the rest of 01:44:51
it for the actual construction of it. All right. Do we have an, do you have an estimated square foot of what, how many square feet 01:44:56
is in that red area, do you know? 01:45:01
About four acres is about four acres. 01:45:07
I guess my recommendation would be that. 01:45:11
You know the staff. 01:45:13
Proceeds. 01:45:14
We get. 01:45:16
You know, formal. 01:45:17
Bids. It sounds like that's kind of the next step. 01:45:17
I would recommend that we try and keep those in line with our total budget here. 01:45:20
OK. And. 01:45:24
Not seek to allocate new new funds to this. 01:45:26
Outside of. 01:45:29
The amount we have from the correct, we have the $900,000 from the settlement roughly and then maybe some grant money. But I mean 01:45:29
whatever we do needs to be in line with. 01:45:34
The money that's already. 01:45:38
Set aside and allocated for the project. 01:45:40
I would also make a motion since the. 01:45:44
Person living closest is. 01:45:46
Councilman Wood to. 01:45:47
Before the bid comes out to just. 01:45:49
Have him. 01:45:51
Review. 01:45:52
What that is? 01:45:53
And work with the. 01:45:55
The two communities, the. 01:45:56
The lakefront and the others. 01:45:59
And just right before it goes to bid just. And Brian's been great. He sent me the. 01:46:00
Volleyball plan, yeah, I think when I first got in and. 01:46:05
Send that to Fred and others in the community and just before it goes to commit you, hey, I signed, we sign off. You sign off on 01:46:08
that. 01:46:10
To go to bed. 01:46:14
Just have someone point that. 01:46:16
OK. Is that OK if Jay? 01:46:20
We don't need to vote, but just. 01:46:22
So, so yeah, yeah, going forward if we if we do move forward staff, we would review these consultants. 01:46:23
Just based off their qualifications and then we'd bring it, we'd we'd start the negotiation process for a price. 01:46:29
And then we'd take that to the City Council for approval on that price. And then from there we'd get the documents and move 01:46:35
forward with approval of the site plan through Planning Commission. 01:46:39
And then it would. 01:46:43
You know, we could start construction on it. 01:46:44
And just my, my preference. And you know, Jacob, you live over there too. Sure. 01:46:46
I think that. 01:46:52
The kind of the the priority for me. 01:46:54
Would be the grading. 01:46:56
The vegetation, the park benches type thing, absolutely. And we do in that $900,000, we do have requirements that we have to fix 01:46:58
those issues. It's kind of the surplus. Beyond that, if if we can fix those issues and we have leftover money, then yeah, let's 01:47:04
talk about bike repair stations and benches and bathrooms or whatever, all of that other stuff that well, maybe not all of it. 01:47:10
But the majority of the bathroom? 01:47:16
The wash station, the water fountains, all that stuff is just. 01:47:19
Just to the east of that in the park there, yeah, we have some here, close still. 01:47:22
Yeah, I don't, I don't foresee. 01:47:27
A dire need for an additional bathroom, I think, I think 500 meters to the South. The idea about the bathroom was that if we did 01:47:30
that volleyball court here right behind that pool, we don't necessarily want the public trying to use the lakefront. 01:47:36
Clubhouse HOA is absolutely bathroom. 01:47:42
When they're attending a public park. So but once again, we don't know if we'd even have budget for that. So that's why we just 01:47:45
need to. 01:47:48
Essentially, move forward with the design work and then we can get a good idea of what we can accomplish with that funding, 01:47:51
gradient care and as long as Jacob Woods what what is in and what is out. 01:47:55
Just look it over before it goes out to bid Jacob and say yeah, that's good enough to bid. 01:48:00
Yeah. And if you want, we a council member could be a part of the the grading criteria for these consultants. We're open to 01:48:04
whatever. 01:48:08
I think right now we have. 01:48:11
People in our engineering team and our parks and rec team. 01:48:13
Doing that so. 01:48:17
Up to the Council. 01:48:18
Thank you. 01:48:19
OK, awesome. 01:48:20
Onward and upward. 01:48:22
Yep, any other further? 01:48:24
Directions you need from us? 01:48:26
We get on that. 01:48:27
OK, all righty, let's. 01:48:29
Do you need to give him permission to? 01:48:31
Start the grant or. 01:48:33
The grant. 01:48:35
Well, the grants going to come after. 01:48:36
They have to have the plan in place first because right now we're bidding off of. 01:48:38
It's not a square footage. 01:48:43
Just to clarify for the grant for the sand volleyball court that they received from Utah Lake Authority. 01:48:46
There's. 01:48:54
That that project was kind of anticipated to become a separate project from Bluffs itself, so wouldn't be part of the design. 01:48:55
In construction with. 01:49:02
Consider that volleyball court as part of as part of it. 01:49:03
But not to be part of it. So if council wants staff to. 01:49:06
Engaged with Utah like authority to repurpose that money. We would be doing that as a separate item. 01:49:12
OK, my suggestion is that we do that because. 01:49:17
The grants only like. 01:49:21
$22,000 and we don't have any other funds to put towards it. So and it's either use it or lose it. 01:49:23
Like there's we, we don't have the extra money. 01:49:31
To make it. 01:49:34
A reality unless we. 01:49:35
Pair it with something. 01:49:37
OK. 01:49:39
All right, anything else on this one? It's a good thing you're friends with them. 01:49:45
Yeah, Luke's a good guy. Yeah, they're awesome. So. 01:49:49
OK, let's jump to the next item on the agenda. 01:49:54
I've lost my agenda here. Next, Jacob, you've got the Wakefields hold away fields. All righty, let's jump into holdaway fields. 01:49:57
Is Cadence here to chat about that? 01:50:06
Doesn't look like he's here. 01:50:08
Do you want to go through that? Let's have a presentation on. 01:50:11
OK. Yes, Anthony, Sir. Thank you. 01:50:16
I'm going to try to keep this pretty short because we've. 01:50:19
Presented to you a couple of times. 01:50:23
But if you want, I can still go through everything. 01:50:25
While this loads. 01:50:28
Just give me a second. 01:50:31
So by the way, my name is Anthony Fletcher. I am a long range planner here in the city. 01:50:32
And I will be going through this hold away. 01:50:38
Fields development right now. 01:50:43
That it's ready. 01:50:46
OK, good. So. 01:50:52
Just to give you a development summary, we have this development agreement that was signed, approved and signed in July of 2022. 01:50:54
A lot went into. 01:51:02
Getting it to the point where it is going to be signed, a lot of negotiations. They had the neighborhood plan created. 01:51:04
Zoning District and Map was created in the Special Purpose Zoning District. 01:51:10
Part of our code general plan was amended. 01:51:15
To be able to make this happen, the parties involved were two developers that. 01:51:17
Came together to make this happen. 01:51:22
Cadence Homes and Goodborough. 01:51:24
Cadence Homes will be focusing more on the single family. 01:51:27
Which is about. 01:51:31
168 units. 01:51:32
And Goodborough is more of the senior housing, which is? 01:51:34
Just about 127. 01:51:38
Currently we have. 01:51:41
Just under 10. 01:51:42
10 are under construction and we have 31 completed. 01:51:44
So just to give you a location context. 01:51:50
This is where that is location. I'm sure everyone is familiar with that. 01:51:52
I'm going to move forward. We in total there's 295 units. 01:51:57
In this development. 01:52:02
The developer is obligated to. 01:52:05
Produce a couple of things out of. 01:52:08
Development agreement. 01:52:09
They need to provide 3 parks. 01:52:11
Senior club housing. 01:52:13
Senior Club. 01:52:15
House for the senior. Senior housing part of the development. 01:52:16
And some amenities as well. 01:52:22
As well as better connect in roads and trail networks that exist within the city already to make it a more holistic system. 01:52:23
The parks. 01:52:31
As I mentioned earlier, are tied to various phases. 01:52:32
Of this development. 01:52:36
West Park, which is. 01:52:38
Currently going to be the first that will be. 01:52:39
Built if we follow whatever we already have approved. 01:52:43
And the. 01:52:46
Other two would. 01:52:47
Happen. 01:52:49
Prior to receiving. 01:52:49
You know certificate of occupancy for phase seven of the whole development. 01:52:51
So. 01:52:57
This is just an. 01:52:58
You know, graphic over the various parks that have been approved. 01:52:59
The senior housing as well is intended to be plotted with phase four of the currently approved phase and plan. 01:53:04
Of the development. 01:53:11
And here are a few roads and, you know, trail networks that we expect that the development better connects with Main St. 01:53:14
400 S both east and West terminus Sleepy Ridge connection. 01:53:22
Stillwater, 300 W and other trails that are already exist in the city. 01:53:26
So the requested amendment by the. 01:53:33
Developer is essentially to have. 01:53:35
A revision of the face and plan. 01:53:38
Based on a study of the market, they came out to let us know that. 01:53:40
The current approved. 01:53:45
Phase and plan would not work well. 01:53:48
For them if they need to follow it. 01:53:51
Exactly due to market needs and. 01:53:53
How sales are going with the entire development? 01:53:56
And that would in turn. 01:53:59
You know, make them. 01:54:01
Change a couple of. 01:54:02
Faces and I've. 01:54:04
I shared earlier. 01:54:06
The evolution of face plan. 01:54:07
The first one is going to be the very original 1. 01:54:09
The second one has been. 01:54:12
Administratively approved and the third one is what they are trying to get. 01:54:14
Approved right now through their proposal. 01:54:19
So this is going to shift a lot more lots. 01:54:21
Around and also. 01:54:25
Have various faces change in their numbers? 01:54:27
So and there's also going to affect that it. 01:54:30
The dedication of. 01:54:33
Amenities like the parks. 01:54:36
As they have been approved for right now. 01:54:38
Can I ask a clarifying question there? 01:54:42
You said that it would change. 01:54:44
I think you were just talking about the phasing. 01:54:46
It does not actually change. I know it's not changing the number of lots, but it's not changing any of the layout of the lots or 01:54:48
anything like that either. 01:54:51
Nope, it's not. 01:54:54
Just add to that it just. 01:54:58
Further combined, certain lots that have. 01:54:59
That are going to be built faster in their plan. 01:55:03
OK, so. 01:55:06
So. 01:55:09
We've had extensive meetings. 01:55:10
Over this ask. 01:55:12
We've reviewed our request. 01:55:14
We've even met with our city attorney. 01:55:16
And he? 01:55:19
We've had discussions that. 01:55:20
We want to suggest a staff that the impact fees. 01:55:22
Be changed. 01:55:27
From what it is right now, so just to back history. 01:55:29
The impact fees in the old. 01:55:32
Development agreement or what we have now approved. 01:55:35
Locked in the cost or? 01:55:37
Whatever they had to pay for impact fees. 01:55:40
I said 2022. 01:55:42
Now we all know a lot has changed in the city. 01:55:44
That has made this. 01:55:47
A concern for staff to. 01:55:50
Consider or have. 01:55:51
Council consider renegotiating. 01:55:53
To have this impact fee be calculated. 01:55:56
At the point of. 01:55:58
Building permits. 01:56:00
I believe a lot of things went into that discussion before. 01:56:01
It was agreed to be locked in. 01:56:05
However. 01:56:07
A lot of us were not. 01:56:09
There when this was a. 01:56:11
Approved, Uh. 01:56:12
I believe Nassim is the only staff that was available. 01:56:13
At the time. 01:56:15
So that is one of the concerns that we have. 01:56:17
As a push back to whatever amendment they're trying to do, we have no concerns with everything else to face implant changing. 01:56:20
Parks and. 01:56:27
Trying to change when the parks have been being delivered and dedicated. 01:56:28
But we are concerned about. 01:56:32
Impact fees, There's been a lot of changes since it was signed in 2022. 01:56:34
And Mayor, do you want to ask a question? I was going to ask if you could admit I. 01:56:39
I didn't want to cut you off because no, that's all right to this, but I just wanted if you could under. 01:56:43
Help us understand what the baseline impact fees were when this was signed versus what they are today. What is the, what's the gap 01:56:47
there? What's the delta? 01:56:51
I would. OK, yeah, we can do that. I probably turn it over to Naseem because they know that more. 01:56:55
Thank you. I don't have the exact numbers in terms of the baseline versus the now, but on the back East the way it was. 01:57:00
And they're writing on. It was intended for the. 01:57:07
Developer to be paying the impact fees based on the time of the. 01:57:11
Excuse me of the. 01:57:15
Signed development agreement, not that not to hold it in place. 01:57:17
For in. 01:57:22
Pituity. 01:57:24
So as an example, the changes that's happened on the impacts is. 01:57:26
On the impact fees would be that since that since we've. 01:57:31
Assigned the development agreement to present day. We do have a parks impact fee. 01:57:35
That would that's charged. 01:57:39
Per per house. 01:57:41
That's being built with that money going towards specifically towards the parks. 01:57:43
Also. 01:57:47
We have a pass through fee. 01:57:49
From central UT Water. 01:57:51
So since. 01:57:53
Excuse me, Since this development has taken to place, we've disconnected. 01:57:55
Our water system. Our delivery system. 01:57:59
Supply system from Arm City to central youth central Utah Water. 01:58:04
Who? Hardly. 01:58:08
And with that being said. 01:58:09
Every time there's a. 01:58:11
A new build. 01:58:13
There is a what they call a pass through or buy that or a buy down, a takedown, excuse me, takedown fee. 01:58:15
That's that's that. 01:58:20
Veneer City collects in order to. 01:58:23
You know pay towards purchasing an additional acre feet of water from Central UT Water. 01:58:26
As well, the other changes would be the sewer. 01:58:31
Impact fees as well as the. 01:58:34
Transportation impact these those fees are adjusted on a regular basis. When I say regular basis typically. 01:58:38
Usually no more than every five years, but typically we. 01:58:45
We adjust them are usually every. 01:58:49