Live stream not working in Chrome or Edge?

Transcript

Event transcript
OK, let me make sure I'm getting good audio. OK, we are good to go. 00:17:04
So it is. 00:17:08
March 17th, 2026 at 12:02. I'm going to go ahead and get our meeting started. As you can see, Mayor Stratton is not. 00:17:10
With us today. So first order of business is I'm going to need to have a nomination for a mayor Pro Tem. 00:17:19
I nominate. 00:17:29
Park on the Cumber. Councilman Mccumber to be the Mayor Pro Tem. 00:17:30
Outstanding. Do I have a second? I'll second that. 00:17:34
Great. OK. 00:17:37
Let me go ahead and we will do that by a roll call. So I will start with you, Councilmember Mccumber. Aye. 00:17:38
Aye, aye. 00:17:44
And then I believe we have Councilmember nares on remote can I have? 00:17:46
Your vote for that? See please. 00:17:51
Excellent. OK, Well, then I will turn that over to you, Mayor Pro Tem Mccumber. 00:17:54
And the meeting is yours. 00:17:58
Since you started it, I don't have to read any of that starting stuff, right? You sure don't. 00:18:01
Welcome everybody. We're going to start our meeting today with public comments. We'll go ahead and give. 00:18:06
3 minutes per comment for anyone that would like to make one. 00:18:10
Oh, David, thanks for looking out. You know this is my first time. Forgive me. 00:18:14
I didn't know I was going to be the mayor Pro Tem, so I didn't bring anybody special to start this. 00:18:21
Oh no, well, I don't work. We don't have a pins for prayer candidate today. 00:18:25
Jake. 00:18:31
If you weren't at our last meeting, we've designated that. That's Jacob and this is Jake. 00:18:34
Would you? 00:18:39
Offer prayer and lead us in the Pledge Allegiance. 00:18:40
Sure. Thanks. 00:18:43
Dear Emily Fowler. 00:18:50
Blessed that we may have a. 00:18:52
Good City Council meeting that we may get the people's work done. 00:18:54
Bless David Larae as he recovers from his. 00:18:57
His surgery and bless. 00:19:00
Him that he may recover and. 00:19:03
And. 00:19:06
Be back in time. 00:19:08
Thank you. 00:19:11
For getting us the opportunity today to talk about these important matters and. 00:19:13
Say these scenes named Discarding Men. 00:19:17
Layman. 00:19:19
I pledge allegiance to. 00:19:26
To the flag of the United States of America. 00:19:28
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:19:31
One Nation. 00:19:34
Indivisible with liberty. 00:19:36
And if you want a pin, you can have one. That's a mayor's initiative. 00:19:41
At a US flag pin. 00:19:45
Get a pin for saying a prayer. 00:19:47
Yeah, we'll try. I don't know. He asked for a toss. OK. 00:19:54
Goat stars. 00:19:58
OK, starting on the agenda today, we'll start with public comment. Like I said before, we'll give 3 minutes per comment. Is there 00:20:03
anybody? 00:20:07
Here that would like to make a public comment. 00:20:11
Karen. 00:20:15
Let's see. 00:20:17
Karen Cornelius, Phyllis Resident If I have three comments doing it 9 minutes, you get 1 three minute period. 00:20:31
And your times already started. This is eating it up. 00:20:37
First of all. 00:20:40
I'm curious. 00:20:41
If there is anywhere. 00:20:43
No, I want to start again. 00:20:45
Thank you to the city for painting. 00:20:47
The curbs. 00:20:50
At the entrance to. 00:20:51
The villas, we were having people parking there at the entrance and making it very difficult to turn in. 00:20:53
And we had requested the red curbing and I think Jacob got that done for us and. 00:20:59
We are happy. 00:21:05
So thank you very much. 00:21:06
Oh, I'm now hearing me. 00:21:10
OK. Second, I'm curious, is there anywhere as citizens? 00:21:12
We can go. 00:21:16
On the Internet, a report from the city, anything that we can be aware. 00:21:17
Of the crime that's going on in our city. 00:21:22
Without a local newspaper. 00:21:24
We really don't have access to. 00:21:27
And we see things. 00:21:29
Happening around us. 00:21:31
But we never know what they mean. So is there anywhere we can find that out? 00:21:33
That's a great question, I was asking the same. 00:21:38
Sheriff here you want to answer that and. 00:21:41
So we we produce a quarterly report that shows all of the calls and types of crimes and. 00:21:47
Provide that to the city and that could be uploaded. I mean if you. 00:21:52
Are you talking like specific crimes? Yep. 00:21:54
I guess you saw a call by your house and we want to know. Well, we all saw the big deal that went down a couple weeks ago over. 00:21:57
Utah City on just the other side of 800 with several cop cars and. 00:22:04
The dogs and a. 00:22:09
Camper out there and. 00:22:11
I mean, it raises our curiosity. We want to know. 00:22:12
What's happening? 00:22:15
And then several ICE cars down at the end of Geneva and. 00:22:17
800. 00:22:21
So just a lot of curiosity and. 00:22:22
I'm used to having a newspaper. I'm used to having a means to find that out, whether it's an online paper. 00:22:25
So I would just like. 00:22:31
To see that we could be provided with something more than quarterly. 00:22:32
I think lots of my neighbors have asked. Do you have any idea? No. 00:22:36
We don't have any idea. 00:22:39
My second comment is. 00:22:41
We need to change this meeting time. 00:22:44
I have heard that a lot from. 00:22:46
Neighbors and citizens too. And I see that we don't. 00:22:49
Necessarily get the greatest attendance. 00:22:52
And today, apparently, there's many very important things on the agenda. 00:22:55
And I just don't think that this is. 00:23:00
Working. 00:23:02
For Vineyard. 00:23:03
And the other thing I want to say is. 00:23:05
Many of us worked very hard. 00:23:08
On an election. 00:23:10
That took place almost all of last year. 00:23:11
Is that my 3 minutes already? 00:23:14
OK. It took almost all year and we. 00:23:16
This election. 00:23:21
It was a mandate. 00:23:25
The citizens want change. 00:23:26
And I know that we've got a lot going on. 00:23:29
And that we have had a lot of change. 00:23:32
But I think it's important. 00:23:34
That as a council. 00:23:37
Perhaps we need to do a little bit more. 00:23:40
Multitasking. 00:23:43
Because people. 00:23:44
I get embarrassed when people ask me what's going on. 00:23:46
And I have to say, well, that's been moved to the next meeting or that's been moved to the next meeting. So I'm just sharing. 00:23:49
Some feelings and some concerns. 00:23:56
They wanted you, they love you. This. 00:23:58
You are who they elected. We have one that's appointed and that's a different thing, but you are who they elected. 00:24:01
And we are here to support you. 00:24:07
And we would like to see things moving and anything we can do as a city to help get those things moving, we're well, we are 00:24:09
willing to do. 00:24:12
Thank you. 00:24:16
Thank you, Karen. 00:24:17
Any other public comments? 00:24:24
OK, Going once, going twice. Sold. 00:24:30
We will start the work session today with discussion on the public safety. 00:24:35
Impact fee study update. 00:24:41
Is there a member of the staff that? 00:24:43
Is kind of taking the point on that. 00:24:45
Yeah, I've been working. Just as a refresher, I've been working with Rachel Stevens, our planner on this project. 00:24:47
Last Tuesday, I did send out to the council the draft public safety master plan. I don't know if any of you have the opportunity 00:24:53
to review that yet, but essentially we're going to. 00:24:57
Next week, ask for adoption of that or. 00:25:02
Maybe some changes on it? 00:25:05
And then from there asked to receive. 00:25:07
Confirmation that we can go into a contract with Zion Public Finance to do the study. 00:25:11
The finance the impact fee study based off of the. 00:25:15
Master Plan. 00:25:17
Do you have any questions? 00:25:19
Did. 00:25:21
Chief Sanderson or Mark have any issues? 00:25:22
Were you able to think with him? It's been phenomenal partners in in developing this. So the the plan goes over many different 00:25:26
areas. We worked very closely with holding his team. 00:25:30
For for police, we worked with Chief Anderson, the Orem Fire Department on their portion. 00:25:34
Goes very much into detail on kind of what the future facility needs. We will. 00:25:39
Have for the city. 00:25:44
And we talked very closely with ORM about how they're able to provide those services for us as we continue to expand. 00:25:45
I think that might be something to pay very close attention to. It essentially calls out. 00:25:52
With our population growth, what we're expecting the facility needs for public safety to be and that's going to be where you know 00:25:56
we start to see that we need some some funding for that that growth and that's where this impact fee would come into play. 00:26:01
My concern is that we haven't had it for so many years and there's already been building into Utah City and the type of building 00:26:09
that is into Utah City. 00:26:13
As I've gone and met with Lehigh. 00:26:18
Riverton where there's a track station, the crime tends to be higher right off of those. 00:26:20
And I just want to make sure that the sheriff and. 00:26:26
Police are taking that into consideration. 00:26:29
The height of the buildings, the proximities of how close they are to each other. 00:26:32
We're designing something that's never been done for the. 00:26:37
In all of Vineyard. 00:26:40
And. 00:26:42
The. 00:26:45
The developer needs to shoulder those different specific design costs if he's going that. 00:26:46
That type of direction. 00:26:51
100%. 00:26:53
And so I know you have to follow some sort of code. 00:26:54
To you know, you've got to be fair and equitable. 00:26:58
But making sure the sheriff and fire, are they the ones? Are they at the table each time and giving you their plans? How's that 00:27:03
process workout? 00:27:07
Of like what their needs are. 00:27:12
Yeah, I mean, maybe Holden can speak more to this, but essentially as we go over building. 00:27:14
Plans with the Utah City development, we work closely with Orem Fire to make sure that they have the clearances needed for their 00:27:18
fire apparatuses to, you know, make sure that the building can be reached on all corners. 00:27:24
And then I, I don't know if you want to speak up on what you've done on your end, but. 00:27:30
So from my input on this is. Obviously we inputted or gave the. 00:27:35
Give Rachel. 00:27:39
Like all of our calls for service. 00:27:40
We talked about current staffing, talked to her about. 00:27:42
Potential future staffing, what that's going to look like and obviously when it comes to future staffing and crime in the 00:27:46
downtown, we're going to need some data before we know what and we're going to expect what might happen right with population 00:27:49
increase and. 00:27:53
And also like the increase in business and daytime population and the frontrunner station and we'll we'll monitor that closely. 00:27:58
And so like in this document that you guys have, it'll talk, it talks a little bit about. 00:28:05
Officer per thousand, you know what I mean, if that that ratio and what that needs to look like. You know when I first came to 00:28:11
Vineyard we were like at one for 2000. 00:28:15
And as we've grown and then calls get more, we get more calls, we get more people coming. The city, that number comes down, you 00:28:19
know where we. 00:28:22
We're now closer to the one per 12150. 00:28:26
We'll keep monitoring that. That's something I track very closely as calls response times. 00:28:29
Types of calls we're getting. 00:28:34
Those types of things that you know, lots of different metrics that we look at. 00:28:36
And so we'll continue to do that. 00:28:39
I mean, we've had some crime by the front runner station. I wouldn't say that it's anything that's. 00:28:43
Alarming at this point I'm. 00:28:47
We've taken care. 00:28:49
We're aware of it and we. 00:28:51
Closely monitor it so. 00:28:52
And will continue to do so. 00:28:54
I will say that the one thing that the master plan does call out is that we are at capacity for our Sheriff's Office here. We 00:28:57
really don't have. 00:29:00
Any room as we just expanded into our conference room here. 00:29:04
And so that is something that we definitely need to pay attention to as a city is it's how we can accommodate that for bringing 00:29:07
more officers, how are we going to accommodate their growth, their, their storage demands and all that. So and if I can just add 00:29:11
to that as well. So when we're talking about impact fee. 00:29:16
That's my understanding those impact fees can be used to build facilities. 00:29:21
And so when we talk about building facilities. 00:29:25
I mean, there there's potential like we could talk about are we going to keep this is a public safety building, Are we going to 00:29:28
different public safety building? 00:29:31
And now those are discussions we can have in the future and and. 00:29:34
But we know that right now we're at capacity in this building. I mean, if you come into our office. 00:29:38
I got two guys in every office and you know. 00:29:42
My secretary is in the same space as the patrol guys. You know, it's pretty tight quarters and, and it works. We're making it 00:29:45
work, which is great. 00:29:49
But as we grow. 00:29:54
As we add more. 00:29:55
We're going to need to add that capacity and so that's what this fee. 00:29:56
When we started this process, the whole goal was and my intention when we stopped said we're going to do it. Master plan is. 00:30:00
It's only worth it. 00:30:05
If we implement an impact fee. 00:30:07
Right, spending money and we were able to do this. 00:30:09
At staff time cost, because Rachel did it for us, we had initially talked about doing this study. 00:30:11
And paying an outside firm, but we were able to do it internally and save a bunch of money on this particular study. 00:30:15
Now the. 00:30:20
The Zions portion of it will cost money of course, but. 00:30:21
This was done by step with staff time. 00:30:25
Which is great. 00:30:27
But if if we implement the impact fee then we can address those future build out needs. 00:30:29
And and we'll work towards that. 00:30:33
So. 00:30:36
I just, I mean, when you model something, it's the information you put in, it's the information you get out and. 00:30:38
So. 00:30:43
Understanding the Utah city has not. 00:30:44
Delineated a population. 00:30:47
I would hope that we would do the top end of that population. 00:30:50
To make sure that we're prepared. 00:30:54
Prepared until they delineate what the population is and stick to that. 00:30:55
Then we need to plan for worst case scenario. 00:31:00
And in meeting with other cities, it's really important that. 00:31:03
You know they. 00:31:08
You missed the mark, you missed the mark and then you're in trouble and you only got one shot to to hit it right. 00:31:09
And so. 00:31:15
I think the. 00:31:16
The crime rate. 00:31:17
We do have good modeling and I think South Salt Lake and a few other train stations that or track stations that are around there. 00:31:19
In showing the crime is probably the best because. 00:31:27
You know, as the as the track station moves the crime. 00:31:30
Follows it. 00:31:33
Just to be clear. 00:31:35
And uh. 00:31:37
Many communities were really caught off guard. 00:31:38
As as you go to them, they're like we under. 00:31:41
Prepared for it. 00:31:44
We didn't staff for it and the other thing is is putting. 00:31:45
Officers, right? 00:31:49
There in that location. 00:31:50
Is critical. 00:31:52
You know not. 00:31:54
You know, right, Right. Where we are here is not. 00:31:56
The best situation to be there? 00:32:00
So I think a few have actually put like not a mobile station, but kind of like a. 00:32:03
That's where they're positioning their officers. 00:32:07
So I just. 00:32:10
I think before next week, just making sure. 00:32:13
What? 00:32:16
Data you're modeling. 00:32:17
Like how did you pull those? 00:32:19
What did you put into to get to that? 00:32:21
Now it has to be justified, right? Because. 00:32:24
They're going to push back and go. 00:32:27
Hey, this is. 00:32:29
You know, it's got to be a real number. 00:32:30
And I imagine that's going to be a political. 00:32:32
Back and forth of what that lands on because. 00:32:34
They haven't had a. 00:32:38
Impact master fee. 00:32:39
From the beginning, right? 00:32:41
So, yeah. And to be clear, nobody in veneers had that since 2008. 00:32:42
Right. So, so no neighborhood. 00:32:46
Has contributed to their public safety impact fee. 00:32:48
Right. Umm. 00:32:52
Since that date when it was paused by a previous council. 00:32:54
So right. 00:32:57
And and I mean. 00:32:58
The great thing is, I mean we've, we've done really well in Vineyard from my perspective as far as keeping up on staffing. 00:33:00
Our intention is to continue to do that. 00:33:05
And, and that's something I come to the city with every year on, you know what, what we need as far as staffing goes. 00:33:08
And so far we've done, I feel like we've done really well as far as our our staffing, especially when I look at it compared to 00:33:14
other cities. 00:33:17
And especially other contract cities that we have with the Sheriff's Office, we've done really well that way. 00:33:21
And we'll continue to do that and. 00:33:25
With the downtown, obviously we're going into that eyes wide open, but we've we've been talking about it for years since I've been 00:33:28
here about how are we going to keep it safe there. 00:33:32
As far as the. 00:33:36
The station, this doesn't need to be discussed necessarily in this plan as far as where we're putting the station right, but. 00:33:37
The guys are mobile. 00:33:42
And their stations, they're off their car is their office basically. So where this is. 00:33:43
Is not as critical unless we're seeing really. 00:33:48
Delayed response times because they're here riding the horse. Don't have to respond to a call. 00:33:51
We do have one wonderful benefit of. 00:33:55
We don't have very far to go in vineyards to get to most places, right? And so that response times have been phenomenal for years. 00:33:57
But there is a potential of maybe, you know, maybe a substation or somewhere if we if. 00:34:05
If the downtown were to get so dense as it possibly could. 00:34:09
There may be a different type of policing we're doing, maybe on foot patrols or bike patrols. 00:34:14
And in that case, we may want a little substation somewhere that could just be there to write a report. So that's something we'll 00:34:18
definitely look at as as that comes online. 00:34:22
Yeah, you know the Gerald Anderson downtown plan prior to Utah City and Flag Row purchasing it, You know, only had. 00:34:27
15,000 build out right? 00:34:35
And then out of the blue it switches over to. 00:34:37
Unlimited and and. 00:34:40
The Flag Borough purchasing it and. 00:34:41
Upwards to 60,000 and that's a huge difference. 00:34:43
And you know, Gerald always refused to go high and vertical and. 00:34:47
And didn't want to do that type of building, even though it was vineyards downtown and. 00:34:52
Now they want to go vertical and. 00:34:56
And so we just need to make sure that. 00:34:59
You know you coming in it's. 00:35:02
You need to pay for. 00:35:04
That type of public safety that it's going to go because it's a completely different financial ball of wax and. 00:35:05
We need to make sure we send that messaging so. 00:35:12
Jacob Wood, did you have anything to add? 00:35:15
I do not. 00:35:16
Cash could I get you to? 00:35:18
You kind of talked about the next steps in the process. Would you talk about the timeline a little bit real quick and just kind of 00:35:19
give me a broad? 00:35:22
Picture. Yeah, absolutely. So next week we are asking for the council to allow us to enter into this contract with Zion Public 00:35:25
Finance and that would allow them to use this. 00:35:29
This master plan that we've drafted here to. 00:35:34
Come up with this impact fee. 00:35:36
And we would like to also have the Council adopt this this master plan. 00:35:38
And I don't know if that will happen next week. It might happen in. 00:35:43
Maybe a month? 00:35:45
Just we want to make sure we get all the comments from you guys on this. 00:35:46
But that would be the timeline we get the contract signed, assigned public finance hopefully within, I would say probably within 00:35:50
three months they'd have good data back to us and they would essentially say. 00:35:55
This is going to be the cost of your public safety. Here's how much you can impose for for every unit and they can break it down. 00:36:00
Different cities have done, you know, single family residential a certain number and multi families a different number. 00:36:05
Commercials a different number. 00:36:11
And then it's up to the council to adopt that. You can adopt the full 100% fee. You could say we're only going to charge 50% of 00:36:12
whatever you feel is is adequate. 00:36:16
But that would be the next step. So I'd say once we have that contract, we're probably, I would say three months away from being 00:36:22
able to get that impact fee. 00:36:25
Into our system, we would have to go through and put it into our consolidated fee schedule. 00:36:28
So it might be a little bit longer than that, but. 00:36:33
But we'll work as fast as we can. 00:36:36
OK. And regarding the? 00:36:38
Master plan, you'd like that. 00:36:39
Sorry, was that Ezra chiming in? 00:36:41
Sorry, yeah, I just, I just had a comment. 00:36:44
I believe there was some legislative. 00:36:47
To now, I think there was a bill passed at the legislature that. 00:36:50
That's a deadline for when we can implement this. 00:36:56
I don't know if anybody's heard about that or if Jesse, you've you've looked into that at all, but. 00:37:00
I think. 00:37:05
Usually if they set those deadlines, I feel like they're in May. 00:37:07
I could double check on that, but. 00:37:11
I can work with you on that Ezran. 00:37:13
Jesse. 00:37:15
So we've got to get it done before May. 00:37:17
My next question was going to. 00:37:21
Jeff, see I received an e-mail on that today. 00:37:23
Outwarded to the Council. 00:37:26
OK with. 00:37:28
With the need to adopt. 00:37:31
The new master plan. 00:37:32
For this. 00:37:34
How quickly can the Council expect to see? 00:37:35
That proposal. 00:37:38
I I sent the counter, I sent the draft to you all last Tuesday. 00:37:39
I haven't gotten any comments on it yet. 00:37:43
When you say master plan, it's not the. 00:37:46
Planning master plan, it's just the it's called the no yeah, it's called the public safety master plan. It does not mention impact 00:37:47
fees, right, Because this is a complete this is saying. 00:37:52
For our future needs, here's what we made. 00:37:57
And then from there, we get the impact fee analysis done. 00:37:59
In order to do that analysis, we have to have this master plan. So would you? 00:38:02
So I might have looked at it as the schedule, but did you include like what the? 00:38:06
I'll have to go back and find it the proposed adoption and the measure for that. 00:38:12
What do you mean? 00:38:16
Yeah, we can. We can just. 00:38:21
Let me pull up the actual document. 00:38:23
OK, Yeah, it is. It is a lengthy document. It looks like it's. 00:38:25
How many pages? 00:38:30
38 pages. 00:38:31
A lot of it's just really good data that I think would be really good for the council to be aware of with it has all of our 00:38:33
incident information. It has a map showing where we do have higher incident rates. 00:38:37
Response times, stuff like that. 00:38:41
So I'm just trying to make sure that I have this. 00:38:45
So this is the document. 00:38:55
It's got the police needs assessment that goes through and I've got a couple things highlighted if we have questions on. 00:38:59
Or like that needed to be updated. Since this happened, for example we have now have 4 sergeants and two detectives. 00:39:04
Oh, I see it got buried in the tough discussion. 00:39:11
OK. And then it goes through like? 00:39:15
Our equipment need the equipment that we have. 00:39:16
Response time. Staffing facilities. 00:39:20
Talks about population. 00:39:24
We're a forum and then it goes into police and fire, obviously on both of those. 00:39:29
And so it just goes through. 00:39:33
Future needs forecasting. Future needs risk assessment. Natural talks about natural hazards. 00:39:35
This is like a heat map for calls for us, this is police related calls. 00:39:42
And this is, has that broken down into officer generator versus public generated? 00:39:51
And takeaways from that Population size and density, age distribution, socioeconomic factors. 00:39:59
And what kind of implication those have for us? 00:40:06
So this is the document that. 00:40:14
You know, if you guys have questions on you see something, hey, tell me more about that. 00:40:16
Love feedback on that from you if I feel like something. 00:40:19
You want something changed or you? 00:40:23
Have questions about? 00:40:24
This is the document we'd love to have questions on. 00:40:25
But as I mentioned, towards the end is where I'd really pay attention. That's going to go over costs like when we'll need a new 00:40:27
fire station, how much is that going to cost? 00:40:31
And so on with. 00:40:35
And it breaks it down by, you know, priority and the funding. 00:40:37
Give us a good idea of kind of what the future looks like and I do want to mention that the population data we use here is is a 00:40:41
pretty. 00:40:44
Large number, I mean it's a large range saying we don't know exactly what the future population is and that's why we try to use 00:40:47
the one officer per thousand resident as a good rule of thumb. And so that's what this calls for. 00:40:53
I was just talking to that. 00:40:59
This is also something we will have to update the impact fee analysis every few years just to make sure that we are kind of 00:41:01
staying on target with where things are at and so we'll be able to reevaluate the population at that time as well. 00:41:06
OK. Would anybody like to make a comment while we're on this? 00:41:12
Item 3.1. 00:41:17
Great. 00:41:20
Let's go ahead and move on to. 00:41:21
Yeah. 00:41:24
She's too short. 00:41:26
Hidden in the back. 00:41:28
Now. 00:41:31
That pillar is the Politico pillar. This pillar, I don't know what it is, but it's the Karen pillar. Karen pillar. 00:41:32
Yeah. 00:41:38
I've been quiet for too many meetings. 00:41:40
Karen Cornelius, Phyllis. 00:41:43
I just have a question about. 00:41:45
The equity in this? 00:41:48
Plan because. 00:41:50
The needs for Utah City are going to be very different. 00:41:51
Than the needs for. 00:41:54
Vineyard itself. 00:41:56
Yeah, starting with. 00:41:58
We probably need ladder trucks when you look at the. 00:42:00
The height of those vertical buildings. 00:42:03
We don't need ladder trucks over here. 00:42:05
So will it be equitable in how? 00:42:08
Those fees are assessed. 00:42:11
Or is it going to be something that's. 00:42:13
We're all going to end up paying for what's going on on the other side of 800. 00:42:16
And then my other question is. 00:42:23
And I think that. 00:42:25
It was pretty well answered, but. 00:42:28
And not having enough room in this building for all of the officers. 00:42:29
I would hope that all the officers were never in the building at the same time. 00:42:34
They we need them on the street. 00:42:38
And that's obvious. 00:42:40
From parking. 00:42:41
From the kids on their. 00:42:43
Electric motorized. 00:42:44
Toys. 00:42:47
We need. 00:42:48
Our police officers out, we don't need them in a building all the time, but I think that that was addressed, that their cars are 00:42:49
there. 00:42:53
Their offices. So I would hope that that would be. 00:42:57
The same. 00:43:00
Were there any other questions? Sorry. 00:43:00
OK, that doesn't. Yeah, that's why I go into the modeling of like. 00:43:03
It's not. It's not. 00:43:09
Yeah, on the modeling, I'm concerned about that as well because. 00:43:11
You come into a city and you go, we're going from 15 to 60. 00:43:15
OK. Are you paying for that? Is that a burden upon all the rest since you adjusted that? 00:43:18
And making sure that it's equitable to what they're going to want to do. 00:43:25
So my other. 00:43:30
Question was. 00:43:31
If they are building for 60,000, are we assessing for 60,000? I want to be clear. 00:43:33
They won't. 00:43:38
Put a target date right, but you can see what they've asked in terms of for water. 00:43:39
And so if they're buying the water, well then I think it's really important that maybe we have. 00:43:44
Set incremental dates to review. 00:43:51
Correct. Those fees, it can't be just every few years. We will do it. 00:43:54
But we have a set time. 00:43:58
Especially if they come down off of, I mean not setting a number. You should. 00:44:00
Plan for. 00:44:04
OK, this is potentially that could be. 00:44:05
And then as it goes down, it could go down in the other direction, but you're planning for the worst case, so you're taking the 00:44:08
money up front. 00:44:11
And then if it's, hey, we're only going to go to four story and. 00:44:15
We're gonna. 00:44:21
Do more commercial instead of what? 00:44:22
You know what has been up to this point? 00:44:24
Then yeah, I agree with that. You know, I talked with many cities and. 00:44:26
They said you just got to constantly review these things. Every tears just look at it and say. 00:44:30
Is this on point to make sure? Well and as new as we are, is every two years enough? 00:44:35
Well, it's my question. You have different construction costs, right? So things change and alter. And so, yeah, you've got to 00:44:40
stand on top of those. 00:44:43
So OK. 00:44:47
Thank you. 00:44:48
I speaking with the Fire Chief, he's been trying to get on the agenda for years to have the impact. 00:44:50
Fee done and I know the previous council just so we got to start from somewhere, right? 00:44:56
I can answer to some of that so please. 00:45:01
The the equity of this impact fee, you only pay the fee at the time of building permit. So for example, if you're an existing 00:45:02
resident in Vineyard, you will not. 00:45:06
Seen an impact from this? 00:45:10
The I was just talking to him, he did say that we are able to split the city into different zones per se. 00:45:12
But when you do that, then those impact fees can only be spent in those zones. So if Utah City wanted its own impact fee zone. 00:45:19
Then they would pay into that. 00:45:25
That zone and we could not use that money outside of that. 00:45:27
So that's something that the council could consider as well as as we work with Zion's Public Finance, we could work with them. 00:45:30
On how we breakdown this fee, rather than just single family versus multifamily versus commercial, we could say buildings over a 00:45:37
certain height have a different impact fee because they do need different types of fire equipment, stuff like that. I will say 00:45:42
that Utah City has been working very closely with Orem Fire to make sure that they are able to provide adequate services and as we 00:45:47
go through our development review committee. 00:45:53
You know, warm fires, they're signing off a. 00:45:58
Proving essentially of these developments that have gone in saying that we have adequate coverage to to make these buildings work. 00:46:00
I don't see any negative as to why it wouldn't be broken up into zones. I get it like hey the other side couldn't get it but the 00:46:07
needs on the other side are are the one downside is is. 00:46:12
You know this part of Woods a lot less fun. Share. 00:46:17
Right. But this is that capacity of the buildings though, so, so my the staffing of the people, my thought too and and this 00:46:21
information is maybe a little bit. 00:46:26
Dated at this point a couple months ago at my last meeting with the Utah City developers. Pete Nate. 00:46:30
They express that their target was. 00:46:37
40,000 people. 00:46:39
I think the build out. 00:46:41
But that brings so the 60,000 number. 00:46:42
Would be vineyard total, right? And that's what this study uses. It says a range of 50 to 70,000 people. 00:46:45
The vast majority of all future build out is occurring over there, right. The vast majority of the impact fees comes from over 00:46:51
there. 00:46:54
Yeah. So I think. 00:46:58
Meeting with Zion and hearing the recommendation of. 00:47:02
Breaking it into zone, would they recommend that since? 00:47:05
Since the buildings would be. 00:47:08
I mean, yeah, we can absolutely bring that up with them and see if they can give us that chart and. 00:47:10
See what that impact the president would look like. Yeah. So and they will pay per unit. It's not, you know, per building, it is 00:47:15
per unit that they would be paying this fee on it too, so. 00:47:20
Per door, right for you, Yeah. Yep. 00:47:24
As I think he's trying to make a comment. 00:47:26
Yeah, yeah. I was just saying we should definitely look at that. 00:47:29
But for example one. 00:47:33
One disincentive to doing it in the zone. 00:47:35
For example, if we wanted to have the fire station. 00:47:38
Outside of Utah City, if we wanted to build a new one. 00:47:41
We would be limited to. 00:47:43
The windmill and I got just trying to go off the chair. 00:47:45
And and we can I. 00:47:48
When I meet with Zion Public Ones, we've signed this contract, I can meet with them and kind of go over all of the ideas that 00:47:49
we've had and kind of get their. 00:47:53
Thought process on this and kind of get best practice what other cities have done that have worked well and. 00:47:56
And present maybe multiple options for the Council. 00:48:01
Who's the Councilman leading this effort? We had someone aside. I don't think anybody's been assigned yet. 00:48:04
That I'm aware. 00:48:10
You're the finance guy. 00:48:11
Sure. 00:48:13
OK. Parker is the. Can you make sure Parker is? Yeah, absolutely. 00:48:16
Any other comments while we're on this issue? 00:48:24
David, you were. 00:48:27
Kind of raising your hand. 00:48:27
Just a quick question. 00:48:31
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 00:48:33
If we build resources, law enforcement or. 00:48:36
Fire resources and. 00:48:39
One part of the city. 00:48:40
Or another part of They're available for the whole city, aren't they? 00:48:42
Yeah, I mean, when it comes to our office, we're available for the whole city. We. 00:48:49
You know we don't. 00:48:53
And that would apply for. 00:48:54
Anything else, any other and the same thing would be true for. I mean, I don't want to speak for. 00:48:56
Fire their resources. They. 00:49:00
Constantly are collaborating with different, different stations, you know one stations out the next one. They have it all set up 00:49:02
all with that ambulance busy. 00:49:06
The next ambulance at this station comes in, so they collaborate as well. 00:49:09
So OK. 00:49:13
Thank you. Thanks. 00:49:14
All right, let's move on to item 3.2. This is travel policy review. 00:49:16
David, did you have somebody to lead this? 00:49:21
Jesse, do you want to? 00:49:25
Take the travel policy or I can do it. 00:49:27
Hey, welcome back. And we're glad you're healthy, Jesse, by the way. 00:49:29
He's on mute. 00:49:35
Hopefully we get to see you in person. 00:49:36
Sometime soon, right? 00:49:39
OK, so before you use the travel policy created by our city. 00:49:41
Attorney. 00:49:47
There's some. 00:49:48
Basically, decisions that the Council needs to make. 00:49:49
Basically fill in the blank. 00:49:54
The first one is on line number, I mean on one approval process. 00:49:57
Right now, it's written in greater than 35 miles from Vineyard City Hall for local travel. 00:50:04
For. 00:50:11
Needing approval. 00:50:11
How far is the? 00:50:14
Capital from here. 00:50:16
About 40 miles. 00:50:19
I should know, I drive it a lot. 00:50:22
I would recommend that. 00:50:24
You. We. 00:50:25
We up that to. 00:50:26
4042.2 miles, 42 point. 00:50:28
43 But we say 4545. 00:50:31
So that if they're going to the Capitol, they don't. 00:50:34
You know department head doesn't need approval to go. 00:50:37
Do you have? 00:50:41
David, I'm trying to find the copy of this and I'm not seeing it in our emails. Do you have? 00:50:43
A copy you can send to us of the draft right now as it is. Yeah, it should be on the. 00:50:48
Oh, do I need to go to Civic Plus? Yeah. 00:50:53
So I had. 00:50:58
You know, I had staff print me out the entire. 00:50:59
Agenda all the agenda items and you can see it covers. 00:51:03
Like I've got paper everywhere. 00:51:06
So probably, unless you want to have. 00:51:09
A little mess up there. 00:51:12
I don't. 00:51:14
Do you have an e-mail from Thursday? You can forward it to me. 00:51:15
I don't have it in my. 00:51:18
Box. 00:51:20
They just need to the City Council e-mail for to keep partner travel draft 1. 00:51:22
Yeah, yeah. I'm not seeing that. 00:51:27
No, I think 45 miles is reasonable. 00:51:32
OK. So that's good. 00:51:37
OK, Yeah. 00:51:39
So do we. Thanks, Ezra. 00:51:41
Do we want to say or we want to say 45 or round it to 50? 00:51:43
I'm 45 is fine. 454545 is authorization if you need 50. 00:51:51
Yeah, OK. Where where else? OK, so. 00:51:56
Be out of town overnight travel expenses. 00:52:01
Over right now we have a threshold of $300 submitted travel authorization. Can I stop and go backwards? Yes, you may. 00:52:04
45 would be one way. 00:52:12
That's true. 00:52:14
So you really need it to be 90. 00:52:15
So that they can come home. 00:52:18
90 rounds, it says from Vineyard City Hall. 00:52:19
OK, so radius, yes, got it. 00:52:22
OK. 00:52:25
OK, so out of town overnight travel or expenses over a threshold of $300. Submit travel authorization form in advance for approval 00:52:29
by the department head or finance director. Is that total trip? 00:52:36
$300 total trip. 00:52:43
Yes. 00:52:46
The sad language for the total trip over 300. 00:52:46
Are we good with 300? 00:52:54
Seems reasonable, yeah. 00:52:56
Anybody. 00:52:57
So. 00:52:59
OK, let's see. 00:53:01
OK, lodging. 00:53:05
Reimbursed for overnight stays when the destination is and this is. 00:53:06
Another fill in the blank. 00:53:11
Currently, we have written greater than 50 miles from Vineyard City. 00:53:13
Say that again. 00:53:18
Reimbursed for overnight stays when the destination is greater than 50 miles from Vineyard. 00:53:19
I would extend that. 00:53:26
Well, OK, what's the necessity of? 00:53:28
The overnight stay and you should probably factor into accounts the residency location of the employee. 00:53:31
That would just be my thought as a best practice. Like for example if somebody has to drive to. 00:53:38
Logan or something like that, right? Longer trip. It's going to be 3 hours up, three hours back. That makes more sense. 00:53:43
If somebody drives to. 00:53:50
North Salt Lake. 00:53:52
Bountiful area. 00:53:53
But they live. 00:53:55
In Salt Lake. 00:53:57
Doesn't really make sense to pay for an overnight stay, so I was just. 00:53:58
Can we factor that into the? 00:54:02
Equation I will. 00:54:05
Asked Jesse. 00:54:06
Do that. 00:54:08
OK. All right. So the other is per diem for overnight travel? 00:54:09
Prorated for partial days. 00:54:14
75% on travel days. 00:54:17
That's a question that right now Jesse has it written is 75%. 00:54:21
What is the per diem? 00:54:25
Well, yeah, that's that's set by the government, so OK. 00:54:29
But 70 generally in Utah City per diem is about 170 dollars. 00:54:34
OK. It includes the overnight stay in your bill? 00:54:39
OK, just a roundabout number. 00:54:42
OK, currently. 00:54:46
Jesse as the example is 75% on travel days. 00:54:48
I see. 00:54:52
That sounds reasonable. OK. 00:54:53
And then two more. 00:54:55
Reimbursement process. 00:54:58
Submit travel expense report with receipts within 60 days of return. 00:54:59
Or paper using the system or paper form. 00:55:05
Is 60 days a pretty standard practice? 00:55:09
That's really long. That seems to get mine out within 14 days saying the military it's you got to have it in the 1st 14 days and 00:55:12
then they have 14 days to review it and you've got, you know, time to appeal then. But it's all going to be done in 30 days. And 00:55:17
so it just seems so do you want to have it? 00:55:21
30 days. 00:55:25
Yeah, do 30 days, OK. 00:55:26
Or we could do 15. 00:55:29
And then last advances available for large trips must be reconciled within 30 days or repaid. 00:55:32
And the days. 00:55:40
Right now, Jesse has written in 30 days. 00:55:42
Yeah, I think like I love advances if it's upfront and I think. 00:55:47
Citizens or employees shouldn't have to fork it over, especially if they're. 00:55:52
They're, you know, OK. 00:55:56
Then that's it. That's. 00:55:57
Review of the travel policy. 00:55:58
And that'll be on the agenda next week for approval. 00:56:00
OK, Can we? 00:56:04
Can we post that somewhere and make it public that we've? 00:56:05
It is posted on on our website through Civic, but just like social media network, hey, we had social media. We're looking at this 00:56:08
policy. We're looking at it. If you post it that way, the public can give comments on social media as well. We can collect more 00:56:15
data and information totally posted to social. There's four or five sleuths out there that want to know. 00:56:21
You know, umm. 00:56:28
So anybody that wants to review the travel policy in their leisure. 00:56:29
Yeah, umm. 00:56:32
Light reading also just as a public just as a public comment. 00:56:34
Could you take anonymous feedback from citizens and just send an e-mail out to all of them and say. 00:56:38
I'll keep your names confidential from from council and. 00:56:43
Bring that feedback. 00:56:47
To us, because I don't know how we would do anonymous unless we just have a forum online. 00:56:48
That somebody could. 00:56:52
Are HR person doesn't have an anonymous thing saying hey give us some feedback. 00:56:54
I want to make sure they're at the table as well because. 00:56:58
I'd been screwed over on my company's travel policy before and I just want to make sure if there's some gaps. 00:57:01
Or how about you just say? 00:57:07
This is an open. There will be no. 00:57:09
Feel free to give us some feedback, we want to make sure we get this right and. 00:57:11
Like it's for everyone, right? You guys need to be at the table. 00:57:16
So OK. 00:57:19
I would just say post on. 00:57:21
Social media. 00:57:22
Yeah. 00:57:23
Hopefully they'll feel comfortable. 00:57:26
So yeah, I don't. 00:57:28
They might not like it. I was just going to say like, what's the point of collecting the anonymous response there? 00:57:31
If your position isn't strong enough that you're willing to stand true position, it does create a like. 00:57:37
Just say that there is an open desire to understand and we're. 00:57:44
We're flexible and I don't think any of us are going to hold it against it. Yeah, like, hey, this, have you thought about the. 00:57:47
Because they they're the ones that travel and. And there might be some unique circumstances like hey, this doesn't fit because of 00:57:51
that and. 00:57:55
You didn't think about that? Well then maybe just include. 00:57:59
Include a mechanism for variation or an appeal and say, hey, if you want something to be changed or deviated from this policy, 00:58:02
bring it. 00:58:06
You know, to the council at the session two weeks before you travel or whatever. 00:58:09
All right, being proactive public comment on this. 00:58:13
Anyone would like? 00:58:19
Just. 00:58:20
Ezra Yep, I've got one more comment. 00:58:23
On six can we get rid of the phone? 00:58:26
We don't need to pay for. 00:58:28
Home expenses I feel like. 00:58:30
Is that park travel policy? 00:58:33
We provide a cell phone if they need a. 00:58:34
That's another policy. 00:58:38
Discussion, I think. 00:58:40
Ezra because. 00:58:41
As I understand it, right now the city has. 00:58:42
Multiple phone plans with multiple different carriers. 00:58:45
And we need to kind of work and consolidate those to begin with. 00:58:49
I know we spoke with Robin about this when we. 00:58:53
When the clerk, when we put her in and we're going to have the finance person, I mean, oh, you guys are really busy so it's not 00:58:55
really a high priority. There could also be if you're staying at a hotel, you. 00:59:00
Could have. 00:59:04
Internet Wi-Fi charge, Wi-Fi charges. 00:59:06
So I see. 00:59:09
It just it just seems like. 00:59:12
OK, well, not necessarily if you have a. 00:59:15
If a. 00:59:22
I used to call him a puck. Just an Wi-Fi puck. Yeah, a Wi-Fi puck that. 00:59:24
You know those. 00:59:29
Go to your phone bill. 00:59:30
So yeah. 00:59:31
But that would have to be an employee. 00:59:33
That. Yeah, that. 00:59:35
Yeah, no, I don't see any. I mean, that would already be paid for by. 00:59:39
The city, I guess, if it was needed. 00:59:43
So yeah, well, and if the city is already paying for it, you'd probably just take it out as a. 00:59:45
We're going to go and look at your phone bill and prorate. You know, you're 30 days, you're going to be traveling for two days. So 00:59:52
we're going to pay for $7.90 for your phone. That seems, yeah. 00:59:57
So agreed. 01:00:02
OK, we'll make those edits and have it ready for next week for approval. 01:00:04
OK. We're going to move on to Item 3.3, Municipal Wastewater Planning Program, MWPP. 01:00:09
Survey Review. 01:00:16
Nassim, is that one that you're? 01:00:18
Leading on. 01:00:20
Yes, Sir. 01:00:22
Could we switch the order and do the? 01:00:24
RDA audit update. 01:00:26
I'm gonna be. 01:00:27
In a meeting in about 15 minutes if that's OK. 01:00:29
Are you good at that, Jacob? Sure. Is that OK? 01:00:32
Is that OK with you guys? 01:00:34
Just switch the order real quick. 01:00:36
OK. Are you leading on the RDA update or do you want me to you're on that? 01:00:39
I'm on the committee. I think it was actually David Larrea, David Larae was leading, but I didn't know if he had asked one of you 01:00:44
guys to bring this up so. 01:00:47
For those who aren't in the know, David Larae is undergoing heart surgery today. 01:00:50
He's having a valve replaced, that's why he's not with us. 01:00:54
He has been leading. 01:00:58
On the RDA. 01:01:00
Subcommittee, is that what we're calling that? 01:01:03
Yep, so I can lead on this. 01:01:05
So we sent out the Chris, you know, our auditor's estimate. 01:01:07
Following up on the RDA audit. 01:01:13
And. 01:01:16
He's out obviously doing the heart valve. 01:01:18
There's a couple of things. 01:01:22
We were waiting to get. 01:01:24
Separate funding from the RDA. Money's worked out. 01:01:27
We were also trying to post an RFP. 01:01:30
Because the total was. 01:01:34
About 50,000 and we were told our own funding rules required an RFP. 01:01:36
At the level of spending. 01:01:42
Now that we have. 01:01:44
Our finance director in place and we know that the money is available. 01:01:45
1. 01:01:51
The RDA. 01:01:52
Few things we've learned The RDA is merely a subunit of the city budget. 01:01:53
The Rd. does not have a separate budget. 01:01:57
Or accounting system there is money to pay for this audit expenditure already in the account. 01:01:59
We do not intend to hire anyone. 01:02:06
Other than Chris Harding, because it's about halfway, it's like building the house halfway. 01:02:08
And we haven't completed the house. 01:02:13
So why would you switch? 01:02:15
Talking with Council. 01:02:18
We have, we've agreed upon. 01:02:20
The procedures of the audit already because he's the only person that's did it. 01:02:22
And we are 2.5 months into the tenor. 01:02:27
Because of all the changes and everything that we have promised. 01:02:30
On these RDA reforms. 01:02:33
And so. 01:02:35
With the timing that we have several large RDA payments that are due on April 1st and we've got to get this done before we do it. 01:02:39
And there are some ramifications with the new law that passed we just talked about. 01:02:47
From the last legislatures that may limit our ability to control the RDA and having. 01:02:51
Specific land decisions. 01:02:57
So. 01:02:59
In speaking with legal counsel. 01:03:00
Jesse, you're here, hopefully. 01:03:05
If you want to speak up. 01:03:06
The council and it's been advised by the mayor that we need to just suspend. 01:03:09
Procurement rules and just. 01:03:13
Use the emergent. 01:03:15
Situation. 01:03:17
Vote on this and next meeting. 01:03:19
Jesse, do you want to talk about? 01:03:21
The advice you've given us? 01:03:22
Yes, we did talk to the state auditor and they recommended since we already have a contract with. 01:03:25
The the consultant. 01:03:31
That we can do an addendum to that contract and just add a new scope of work. 01:03:33
And so that's what. 01:03:38
I think the resolution I've written. 01:03:40
I think it says an amendment, but it's actually an addendum. 01:03:42
I think I got that wrong, maybe in the? 01:03:46
My resolution. 01:03:49
Yeah. So I'm glad that we took the time. I'm glad we. 01:03:50
Consulted the state auditor. Got. 01:03:53
Council of what needed to happen there and had legal counsel now in place so. 01:03:55
What we are proposing is to pass this resolution as part of three-point. 01:03:59
For in our next scheduled business meeting. 01:04:02
And engage Chris Harding on those estimates and. 01:04:05
I think we just make public. 01:04:08
That what we're going to go through after in in the packet for next week so citizens know why this procedure was changed. 01:04:10
And but I'm glad we took the time we thought we had to do an RFP or whatnot. 01:04:18
It's not needed so. 01:04:23
Yeah, I guess. 01:04:25
So. 01:04:28
Generally speaking, I. 01:04:29
Support the intent behind this. 01:04:31
My. 01:04:33
Concerns. 01:04:34
And it sounds like you guys have kind of already sorted this out, but I just wanted to. 01:04:36
I'll say it again. 01:04:40
So that Jesse can chime in and we can have a good legal understanding on it is that one. 01:04:41
I want to make sure that. 01:04:47
We're not. 01:04:48
Violating any rules, laws or obligations when it comes to procurement. 01:04:49
Second, I want to make sure that we're not opening up risk when we say things like. 01:04:54
You know, we intend to hire Chris Harding and. 01:05:00
Not anybody else because then I know we we run into maybe a legal question when it comes to sole sourcing. 01:05:03
And. 01:05:09
3rd, just making sure that we're operating. 01:05:11
I wanted to make sure there's not an inaccuracy when we say things like the RDA. 01:05:15
Is a sub. 01:05:20
Aspect of the city because it is a separate legal entity to my understanding. 01:05:21
Correct the finances maybe I didn't describe it. 01:05:25
In the. 01:05:28
In the. 01:05:31
Technical legal terms, but. 01:05:32
That's what our understanding was when we were given our counsel from. 01:05:34
Our finance right and then also from our legal of. 01:05:38
This is pretty normal. 01:05:41
Operating. 01:05:43
And I know we reached out to the. 01:05:44
The state officer shop is. 01:05:46
You know this is. 01:05:48
This was procured the right way by the previous council and Chris Harding was selected. 01:05:49
To do a job. 01:05:55
The previous council. 01:05:57
Made did the. 01:05:59
The. 01:06:01
They followed the law in selecting him as the right person. So it's. 01:06:02
Duplicative. 01:06:06
The Council that we were given its duplicative halfway through to. 01:06:08
You would never. 01:06:12
I mean, it would be very odd that you would go through. 01:06:13
And spend hundreds of hours. I don't remember the total amount of hours that he's deep into it. 01:06:16
To then go OK. 01:06:21
Now that you're halfway through. 01:06:23
You wouldn't just stop and spend hundreds of hours. 01:06:25
Training someone new to then complete the second-half of it is our understanding. He's gained so much describe that right and and 01:06:29
I I generally. 01:06:33
Agree. Umm. 01:06:37
I think it is probably the fastest, most efficient path forward. 01:06:39
So this wasn't a knock on. 01:06:44
On Chris or hiring somebody else, it's. 01:06:46
Are we? 01:06:49
And and Jesse, please chime in. 01:06:50
Are we operating in such a way that we protect the city from? 01:06:52
Legal ramifications, yeah. 01:06:56
According to state auditor. 01:07:02
Because we've already went through the vetting process. 01:07:03
For the consultant. 01:07:06
Chris, then we can just do an addendum. 01:07:08
To add to the scope of work. 01:07:12
Which would be just a new scope of work. 01:07:13
I don't think we're undermining anything publicly. I don't think we're undermining the process. 01:07:16
It doesn't mean Chris is going to be permanently the auditor. 01:07:22
We can always take it back out to bid. 01:07:24
If we want an auditor, we go. 01:07:27
In a different direction or to a deeper level. 01:07:29
So I don't think this is this means Chris is our permanent auditor. 01:07:32
And I don't think we're bypassing anything and. 01:07:36
I the state auditor. 01:07:38
Tended to agree with us on that issue. 01:07:40
OK. Any other comments? 01:07:45
Many from the peanut gallery. 01:07:48
But I'm glad that we took the time. 01:07:51
Say again, Ezra. 01:07:54
I should have turned in before you went to the Peanut Gala. 01:07:56
It's just interesting because of the. 01:08:04
The size of the addendum that that would be my only concern if we're we're asking for. 01:08:07
50% increase on the original contract amount. 01:08:13
And the scope of work is. 01:08:17
It's significantly different. 01:08:19
While the background information is helpful. 01:08:21
For obviously it's helpful for. 01:08:23
Somebody that already have been in the RDA a little bit to? 01:08:27
To make a more competitive quote. 01:08:30
That's where I felt like. 01:08:32
Going to RFP, it still would have been. 01:08:33
Pretty easy for. 01:08:36
You know somebody who has experience with the RDA to. 01:08:38
To, you know, not charge for redoing work that would have needed to be done. 01:08:41
But anybody would have access to the original report which sums up. 01:08:47
All of the original findings that. 01:08:50
That Chris had provided. 01:08:53
That's where. 01:08:54
I have a little bit of pause on. 01:08:56
I'm just, I guess, making those comments of we're doing this because. 01:08:59
This is an individual who's already. 01:09:06
You know, been involved. 01:09:08
If we do want to. 01:09:10
Say the timing is more of the issue and that we want to suspend the procurement rules. 01:09:13
To just expedite getting a contractor. 01:09:18
On board. 01:09:20
I'd be more supportive of. 01:09:21
Making that case, but I think it's important though as we make this decision, we'd like to pick Elaine and say. 01:09:23
This is why we're making it, because if we say. 01:09:28
Oh well, the RDA is a separate entity, so we don't need to follow the same city finance policies. 01:09:31
Like that opens up a whole new can of worms as far as RDA procurement in general because. 01:09:36
My understanding is it all works through. 01:09:41
You know, our current city finance system as far as all those payments go, so I wouldn't want to. 01:09:43
I wouldn't want to like stress. 01:09:47
That if we're really. 01:09:48
The spending rules to just. 01:09:51
On the. 01:09:54
I think multiple things. 01:09:55
Can be true. 01:09:57
I think there's definitely a benefit to moving. 01:09:59
Quickly in this situation. 01:10:01
And subsequently. 01:10:04
I think there's justification and if. 01:10:06
You know, legal counsel can support that and the state auditor's office can support that. I think that that's. 01:10:08
Defensible and then the second aspect. 01:10:14
Is that there is a benefit to? 01:10:17
Having somebody who's already familiar with the work because even if you. 01:10:19
Go bid it out. You're having somebody. Then come in. 01:10:23
Look at and review those documents asking more clarifying questions. All right, they're coming in and they're learning again, and 01:10:26
you're paying for that time as well, so it adds. 01:10:30
You know what a subsequent. 01:10:35
Bid would be. 01:10:37
And then I think. 01:10:38
You brought up Ezra. 01:10:40
That. 01:10:42
You felt like this was a substantial. 01:10:43
Difference in the scope of work and I. 01:10:45
Would argue that it's not, it's just additional depth. 01:10:48
To the scope of work, for example. 01:10:51
You know, we go under contract, we build a house, we want to make a change to the house or the property right at a pickleball 01:10:53
court or whatever. 01:10:57
That doesn't. 01:11:00
Mean there's a substantial change in the scope of work. 01:11:02
Even though you have a cost increase associated with the addendum that puts that onto the property. 01:11:05
Does that make sense? Like it's still? 01:11:10
Part of delivering on the House. 01:11:12
And in this case still part on delivering on the RDA audit? 01:11:15
Yeah, I agree. I think, I think they're all related, but. 01:11:19
When you're looking at. 01:11:22
You know, do I need to go buy a pickleball court? Do I want to necessarily? 01:11:23
Use the same contractor that built the house or could somebody? 01:11:27
Who's a specialist in pickleball courts? 01:11:30
Provide the same. 01:11:32
Service at a different cost. 01:11:34
So I think it would be more fair to bid something like that. 01:11:36
But as long as if Jesse if you just want to provide. 01:11:40
A legal justification and. 01:11:43
Maybe we could all just. 01:11:45
You know. 01:11:46
Say, yes, this is like, this is the reason we're doing this and This is why. 01:11:48
Why we want to do this if we just kind of pinpointed those? 01:11:51
I think I'd be able to get. 01:11:55
More comfortable with that. 01:11:56
Yeah, I think right now just. 01:11:58
Can you let let Jesse reply? 01:12:01
Yeah. Would you like that in a legal opinion or you would like that orally? 01:12:03
I just said that mall would be great. 01:12:09
OK. Thank you. 01:12:11
And I also want to correct the record. 01:12:12
I misspoke. We are not. 01:12:15
Suspending the rules. 01:12:17
We have as a board the ability. 01:12:18
Now reading through it. 01:12:21
We have the ability to create an addendum. 01:12:23
We can decide to do one or the other. We're not. 01:12:25
Going to some emergency thing so I misspoke on that like. 01:12:29
It's all it's with. 01:12:34
In speaking with the state auditor, it's within our legal authority. 01:12:35
As a board. 01:12:39
Because it's our money. 01:12:40
To do that so. 01:12:42
Anyway, we're not suspending rules. 01:12:43
We're just going a different direction. 01:12:47
So cool. Any other? 01:12:48
Comments. Would anyone like to comment on this item while it's up? 01:12:51
Ezra, you get if we move on. 01:12:56
OK, so just for the. 01:13:00
Staff this. 01:13:02
Note it's a public money. 01:13:04
I just always want to make sure whenever we say our money. 01:13:06
We're talking about ours, the public. 01:13:09
Correct. Yeah. 01:13:11
The public's money. 01:13:12
Right. Yeah. 01:13:13
So, staff, this would be on the City Council for vote next week. 01:13:15
On the agenda? Awesome. 01:13:21
OK, now we're going to go back to 3.3 municipal wastewater planning program. 01:13:24
OK. 01:13:30
Thank you. 01:13:38
Thank you very much. Sinasim Gandarpal works. 01:13:39
Director. City Engineer. 01:13:42
So we have the Municipal Wastewater Planning program survey presentation. 01:13:44
For the City Council and the public. 01:13:49
So this presentation was All the information was prepared by Devon Peterson. 01:13:51
Water Wastewater manager, as well as Chris Jackson, the Wastewater crew lead, who's in attendance with us today. 01:13:57
So I just want to. 01:14:05
Take a moment of your time and capture your attention and provide a summary of the survey. 01:14:08
Prior to the meeting. 01:14:14
We sent out an e-mail of this survey. It's, excuse me, this presentation itself. 01:14:15
Along with a draft. 01:14:20
Copy of the survey. 01:14:23
Prefilled out. 01:14:25
Now this survey has not has yet to be submitted to the state. 01:14:26
But I want to provide to the City Council. 01:14:30
It is 14 pages but we consolidate this. 01:14:33
Presentation. 01:14:37
So again, at any time that. 01:14:39
The Council has any questions. Please feel free to ask those questions and we'll. 01:14:41
Will elaborate, but for the purpose of this presentation for members of the Council. 01:14:47
As well as members of the public, we're just going to do an overview of what the survey. 01:14:51
House so. 01:14:56
Just a reminder for everyone, the mission for Public Works providing sustained, essential services for its citizens, welfare and 01:14:59
acceptable quality of life Which? 01:15:04
They're playing centers around the wastewater collections and services. 01:15:09
So just again. 01:15:15
What is the MWP? The municipal wastewater planning program? 01:15:19
Is annual reporting program, so we provide this last year and the year before and the year before to. 01:15:23
The Utah Division of Water Quality. 01:15:29
And we will be doing so in the future as well until they tell us it's not required, but requires municipalities, any municipality 01:15:31
that provides wastewater. 01:15:36
Collection or treatment? 01:15:40
To fill out this survey. 01:15:42
And to about and it provides an opportunity for us to evaluate and report on the technical operational, financial conditions of 01:15:44
our wastewater collections and or treatment systems. 01:15:49
So why it's important? It helps identify. 01:15:55
System capacity, operational risks and funding. 01:15:58
Needs before they become a costly problem. 01:16:00
The and the information that we provide to the State Division of Water Quality, they they actually do provide a. 01:16:04
Consolidate the picture for the full state of Utah as well and that that comes out later in the year. 01:16:10
This survey is. 01:16:16
If you go to the website then they just. They'll then update your dates but this is typically due every April of so I believe 01:16:19
April 15th ish. 01:16:23
Or out of. 01:16:27
Of 2026. 01:16:29
So a quick summary of our survey. I won't go down to the details because a lot of these details are found throughout the 01:16:33
presentation. 01:16:36
But the biggest? 01:16:41
Item on here. 01:16:43
That we want to. 01:16:44
Kind of put out there so. 01:16:46
You know, bottom line. 01:16:48
Our system is. 01:16:49
Well functioning, you know we have, we meet our obligations for operations, maintenance and capital improvements. 01:16:54
After a decade, enterprise that dedicated fund. 01:17:00
AKA Enterprise Fund. 01:17:03
As well as empathies, we have had not. 01:17:05
We have not had any. 01:17:08
Identified issues with the system. 01:17:10
Asked in 2020. 01:17:13
Five, however, we're always we're looking towards the continued growth. 01:17:15
That's going to require ongoing capital investments. 01:17:19
And planning. 01:17:22
I have this broken out into sections. 01:17:24
To align to the survey. 01:17:26
So I'll just go through each section. 01:17:28
To reflect the survey so. 01:17:30
So the financial evaluation section, which is the first section of the survey. 01:17:32
The summary of our answers is that our financial position is we're stable. 01:17:38
Where enterprise funding and revenue sufficient to cover. 01:17:43
Our operations and maintenance and capital needs. 01:17:46
Our rate structure and revenue structure covers our operations, maintenance, replacement and capital improvements. 01:17:49
When I say capital improvements specifically for the rates. 01:17:55
Is it's not the capital improvements required for growth, but the capital improvements required for ongoing operations? 01:17:58
And public works, we use capital improvements interchangeably. 01:18:05
So. 01:18:09
And we have accuracy. We have projected accuracy for the next 5 years. This was done through a 2025. 01:18:11
Sewer utility rate study by. 01:18:18
Zion Public Finance. 01:18:22
Which we have available to anyone, the City Council or the public they would like. 01:18:24
And then for terms of reserves and planning tools, we've updated our capital facility plan in 2025. 01:18:30
And then we do have near term funds meeting those needs reflective in our. 01:18:36
Utility rate study as well as impact fees but. 01:18:43
We have not projected out for the 20 year horizon. 01:18:46
We do have some projections for past five years, however. 01:18:50
Again. Yeah. 01:18:54
The further out do you try project, the further. 01:18:55
Negative. 01:18:58
The more ambiguity there is in those fees, so we try not to overreach too far out. 01:19:01
So the next part of this on the financial evaluation section is for a capital outlook. 01:19:09
This one specifically is in terms of our. 01:19:13
Impact fees for growth, so we do have near term capital needs are funded including $950,000. 01:19:16
In 2025. 01:19:24
We're projected 2.52 point, almost 2.6 million projected for. 01:19:26
The years 2031 to 2035. 01:19:31
And then our impact fees we collect on average per what we call ERU equivalent residential unit. 01:19:36
Roughly about 6500. 01:19:42
Or 66 zero on average. 01:19:45
And we've. 01:19:48
Complete a wastewater. 01:19:50
Collection System Master Plan. 01:19:53
As well as impact fee facility plan. 01:19:55
With this assessment in 2025, so this is. 01:19:57
These numbers are reflect our recent outlook. 01:20:01
In terms of our for our growth of our system. 01:20:05
Our operational considerations, the big item on there. 01:20:08
That we there were. 01:20:12
Looking at is our staffing capacity. 01:20:15
Has been identified as a constraint for a long term system growth. 01:20:17
Our support. 01:20:20
As system grows larger as well as older. 01:20:21
The the need to be able to. 01:20:25
Provide operations and maintenance and prevent. 01:20:29
Preventive maintenance. Reactive maintenance. 01:20:31
As well as emergency repairs. 01:20:33
Becomes more real. 01:20:37
As well. 01:20:39
However, as a. 01:20:40
Department we have. 01:20:43
Put together A10 year projection. 01:20:44
For our staff, our staffing projection. 01:20:47
Based on growth, development and aging. 01:20:49
Which we? 01:20:51
We constantly reflect on. 01:20:53
So it is a we identify this constraint. However, we are actively. 01:20:55
Posture to address those. 01:21:02
The next section is collections. 01:21:05
Section. So this section here. 01:21:07
Type provides a system of our description of our system. 01:21:10
Veneer at the city operates only a municipal wastewater collection system. We do not provide. 01:21:14
Distribution of wastewater, which would be very bad for our residents. 01:21:20
But it's this collection only. 01:21:24
So consisting of lift stations, gravity mains, force mains. 01:21:27
We have about just shy of 41 miles of gravity, gravity, sewers and. 01:21:31
About 5 miles of force Main forest main is. 01:21:36
Where the lines that were. 01:21:39
Actively pumping the sewer in the direction where? 01:21:41
The direction away from homes. 01:21:45
So in the direction we want. 01:21:48
And then the gravity lines is the obviously the preferred method to convey wastewater? 01:21:50
The largest pipe diameter that we have is 36 inches. 01:21:56
And we have an average depth of about 12 feet. 01:22:00
Of our. 01:22:03
Wastewater complexion. 01:22:05
We do operate 3 lift stations. 01:22:07
For pushing the wastewater and the direction away from homes towards the treatment facilities. 01:22:11
And designed for about 1200 gallons per minute. 01:22:17
On that. So again, this is may not seem important to many people, but this is a lot of the information that goes behind. 01:22:21
Keeping the systems operating and functioning to provide the services. 01:22:27
For our residents. 01:22:31
A majority of our system, originally it was built in 2007. 01:22:33
So in majority the. 01:22:38
Facilities reflecting newer infrastructure conditions. 01:22:40
So again, as the development comes in, we have new systems. 01:22:43
So typically we do have the. 01:22:47
Advantage of. 01:22:50
Newer systems versus age systems. 01:22:52
And which comes when I. 01:22:55
You know, Chris Jackson attest to all the other problems that we have with age systems as well. 01:22:56
These pictures are pictures of our GIS, of our GIS, the city's sewer map where we capture information and track information. 01:23:04
For discharges we. 01:23:15
Have a seasonal, so we do not. We did not have any seasonal peaks. 01:23:17
That was above 100%. 01:23:20
Of our capacity, which is a good thing. 01:23:22
Because we want to keep. 01:23:25
We want to make sure that we're not having overflows. 01:23:27
We have not had to have any sewer bypasses or. 01:23:31
Overflows due to rain or snow melt. 01:23:34
And we have had no sanitary sewer overflows. There's a Class 1 and Class 2. 01:23:37
If you would like to, if you would like, Chris Jackson can. 01:23:42
I'll provide you an explanation to the differences, but this is specifically for the year 2025. 01:23:45
They're already bypassing that we did in 2025 was a planned. 01:23:51
Repair that we've had. 01:23:55
This survey. 01:23:56
Is asking for any. 01:23:58
Unplanned. 01:24:00
Bypassing. 01:24:00
Or overflows that we may have had. 01:24:02
In that planned. 01:24:04
Bypassing we had was for the Main St. roadway repair that we did. 01:24:06
A few months back. 01:24:12
For new development, the big takeaways on here is that we've not have had in the past two years. 01:24:14
Any increased flows more than. 01:24:19
From industrial areas for more than. 01:24:22
Of 10% and then we've not had any major growth. 01:24:26
For the next two or three years, increased flows of. 01:24:29
Is looking at more than 25%. 01:24:33
Again, this is just our projections. 01:24:35
Things may change as we push along. 01:24:37
However, especially for the downtown development that we are constantly. 01:24:41
Having discussions with the downtown developer. 01:24:44
In terms of the sewer collection. 01:24:47
Discussions The infrastructure required in the. 01:24:50
Projected. 01:24:54
Growth as we can see it come on. 01:24:55
Board. So again, this is just a snapshot of our project of our. 01:25:00
Of our estimates of for. 01:25:06
Growth. 01:25:09
For 2025, we had 10 commercial. 01:25:10
Slash industrial connections and 78 residential sewer connections. 01:25:13
Moving on to collection systems. On the collection systems. 01:25:19
So our and this is very important. 01:25:24
For us as a good reminder. 01:25:27
Our collection systems operate in, over and overseen by appropriate certified personnel. 01:25:29
Consistent with the State Opera certification requirements. 01:25:34
So in order to. 01:25:37
Run the system. 01:25:38
If they, our operators are required to have. 01:25:40
Certificate. Certain certifications. 01:25:43
Issued by the state as well as. 01:25:46
Maintain those certifications. 01:25:48
For our population, roughly ±23,000. 01:25:50
People and this is done through our estimated Eru's connections. 01:25:54
And building permits. 01:25:58
We are required to have a Level 3 collection certification. 01:26:00
So that means the direct responsible charge. 01:26:04
DRC. 01:26:06
Who are currently Deputy Pearson and Chris Jackson. 01:26:07
Are certified of at least a Level 3, Level 4 being the highest. 01:26:10
And that's unrestricted. So there are different. 01:26:15
Levels to this SO. 01:26:18
Again, behind the bronze to our wastewater team. There's a lot of brains to it as well. 01:26:20
We do have 6 personnel. 01:26:26
Operators who have certifications. 01:26:28
But this includes our cross strained. 01:26:30
Water operators who are. 01:26:33
Wearing double hats. 01:26:35
To ensure that we provide consistency and redundancy. 01:26:37
In our system. 01:26:40
For a facility maintenance, we do have we maintain an active preventive. 01:26:41
Preventive maintenance program with routine inspections, cleaning and documented tracking. 01:26:46
Again, Chris Jackson can go more into details. 01:26:50
And turns it out. 01:26:53
And our lift stations are in critical assets are regularly maintained as Chris Jackson. 01:26:54
Can attest and talk more about. 01:26:59
Part number 5 We have a sewer system management plan. This was adopted in 2016. 01:27:02
Which is a formal plan. 01:27:07
In place that addresses key elements required by the state. 01:27:10
The plan is implemented and functioning as intended based on our review, with no significant gaps or deficiencies identified. 01:27:13
Again, this was done in 2016 and it would be. 01:27:23
Kosher or. 01:27:26
It would be present for us to go through it again and update it and when we do. 01:27:27
We would do another public noticing for that. 01:27:32
The one item that we. 01:27:34
Have identified as a. 01:27:35
Action item that we would like to push forward with is. 01:27:39
Having a fat oils in grease or what's now also called the fats oil sand the grease program. 01:27:42
To help further protect our collection system so those people, especially around Thanksgiving time. 01:27:48
Residents who dump oil oils down the drain. 01:27:53
One, is it not? It's not only is it damaging. 01:27:56
There are residential pipes. 01:27:59
But it. 01:28:02
You know. 01:28:03
Affect our city. 01:28:05
System and. 01:28:07
Chris Jackson specifically, I just want to give him kudos for him on terms of the bio. 01:28:10
Bacteria, there we go, beneficial bacteria, there we go beneficial bacteria that is used. 01:28:15
Is monitored. The levels are monitored than what's used in order to. 01:28:22
Help reduce the smells but also. 01:28:27
Ensure that the bacteria that greases and baths and so forth in our system. 01:28:30
Are broken down before they go to TSSD. 01:28:34
Specifically SO. 01:28:36
A narrative evaluation. Bottom line. 01:28:41
We feel that there are sewer system is relatively. 01:28:43
Being relatively news in good physical condition. 01:28:46
You know we are currently working on an upgrade to our lift station #2 which is. 01:28:49
Our most north furthest. 01:28:55
Our most northern excuse me lift station, which. 01:28:57
Is where is the lift station that. 01:29:01
Pumps majority of the city's sewer to. 01:29:03
The Typinogus Special Service District. 01:29:07
For treatment. 01:29:10
And that upgrades are larger, larger pumps. 01:29:11
Specifically in order to handle the increased capacity. 01:29:16
Minor operational issues, you know we about Greece buildup and then. 01:29:21
We had. We identified that we replaced. 01:29:25
Sewer line which sagged along Main St. 01:29:28
Which is the bypassing the planned bypassing that we had done. 01:29:31
On that. 01:29:35
We put down the cities, updating the capital facilities plan. It gives us cash, Ansi spoke earlier. 01:29:37
We are constantly reviewing our capital facilities plan a year, year basis to ensure that we're kind of track. 01:29:43
Are we keeping a? 01:29:49
Stop on the pulse. 01:29:51
Of. 01:29:53
You know of our needs and and triggering a review and a new assessment as needed. 01:29:53
And then on here that are developments for the operators are supported through. 01:30:00
Continuing education units. 01:30:06
Funded through our revenue. 01:30:08
That's collected in order to operate our system. 01:30:11
And uh. 01:30:13
We are currently working on a formal policy to do so, but. 01:30:15
Are there are? 01:30:22
Many good. 01:30:24
Continuing Education. 01:30:25
Courses that are offered through the state. 01:30:27
Different programs and we find that now is it. 01:30:30
Beneficial for for our operators to go there to get. 01:30:32
That to check the box. 01:30:35
To ensure that their contained education is being done, but. 01:30:36
It helps great. 01:30:39
Localized area for ideas and operations and maintenance. 01:30:42
The wastewater tree construction, luckily here, is short because the city has no wastewater treatment facilities. 01:30:46
But we just want to identify that. 01:30:54
Our our wastewater is conveyed to to external providers. 01:30:55
One being Timpanogos Special Service District. 01:31:00
In Arm City and on the South. 01:31:03
That provides. 01:31:06
The actual treatment. 01:31:08
That being said, we were able to. 01:31:09
The section of the survey was very short because we sat down. 01:31:11
And we moved on to the last section being adapt and signed. 01:31:14
Section The survey is. 01:31:18
IS was completed by Devon Pearson and Chris Jackson. 01:31:22
I said they were. It was reviewed for accuracy, certified for accuracy by the. 01:31:27
The. 01:31:33
Responsible charge being. 01:31:35
Devin Pearson and Chris Jackson and then the survey must be presented to the City Council, which we were doing, currently doing 01:31:39
today, March 17th, 2026. 01:31:43
At this work session. 01:31:47
And the next step on this survey is that it's that it will be presented for City Council. 01:31:48
For adoption of the survey results. 01:31:54
Which we plan on doing by on March 24th. 01:31:58
As a consent item. 01:32:01
Unless there's a. 01:32:03
Items for it to be pulled off for in discussion. 01:32:04
On that. 01:32:07
Could I ask what would be the purpose of? 01:32:08
Someone on the council pulling something off of the survey. 01:32:10
That seems like there's no. 01:32:14
Purpose in it. 01:32:16
Not necessarily mainly for the fact that I mean everything on the survey is really just a self-assessment on it. So for example, 01:32:17
if we identified and I just say on this, this on a hypothetical if we identified it. 01:32:23
Our revenue. 01:32:29
Is not sufficient to cover our operations and maintenance costs and that we're subsidizing our revenue through general funds, etc. 01:32:30
Than City Council may choose to. 01:32:37
Take. 01:32:40
And make corrective actions before some magnitude states. 01:32:41
And say, you know, we want to make this correction. 01:32:44
On that, typically the answer is no. The state really just wants to ensure. 01:32:48
That there was a formal action being done. 01:32:52
To ensure that the board members. 01:32:54
Which in our case would be the Council members. 01:32:57
Are actively have have been made aware of the findings that we don't submit a self audit. 01:33:00
Saying that there's all these horrible things going on, we are not able to function. 01:33:07
And everything's falling apart. 01:33:11
And then? 01:33:14
The and the City Council or the board of directors. 01:33:16
Have no situational awareness about. 01:33:21
So, OK, thank you. No problem. 01:33:24
So. 01:33:27
March 24th, we'll have it on the on the State Council as a consent item for adoption with a resolution. And once that's done, 01:33:28
we'll submit the we'll submit the survey, the results to the state. And then this is just a picture from last year's. 01:33:35
Municipal wastewater planning program survey. 01:33:42
That was compiled by the state with all the. 01:33:45
Granular data compiled together. 01:33:49
So I would just like to say thank you to Mr. Devin Pearson. 01:33:52
Mr. Chris Jackson, Mr. Evan Smith and. 01:33:56
Miss Monica Wing so. 01:33:59
Water, wastewater division as well as our finance who worked together to get this survey put together every year. 01:34:03
Any questions? And again, Chris Jackson is here that he can provide any. 01:34:09
Detailed information too. Just have one question. Can you walk through what fog is? Do we currently we currently don't have? 01:34:13
That implemented, but that's something that we're looking at doing, yes. So fog, Fog is fast oils in Greece. So not fog like on 01:34:19
airfields I'm used to, which is foreign, foreign objects. 01:34:25
Or probably excuse me. 01:34:31
But. 01:34:33
The so fast models in Greece, it's just the items. So it's your typical like cooking oils paths and such like if you're cooking 01:34:34
bacon on a Sunday morning. 01:34:39
At my home we have a. 01:34:46
Greece Container. 01:34:49
That we put everything into and then put in the trash versus down the drain. So having a program like that then. 01:34:51
Chris, if you would like to do, we would like to speak about the that type of program. 01:34:58
So we are a young city. 01:35:01
Chris Jackson, by the way, we are a young city, so. 01:35:03
A lot of the. 01:35:06
Residents don't know about that dumping. 01:35:07
About oils and grease down the drain. So they do it. We have apartments and stuff like that so it ends up in the city so. 01:35:09
We we try and. 01:35:16
Put out in the newsletter. 01:35:18
Couple times a year, you know, don't dump it, especially around Thanksgiving, you know, so gives people a heads up. A lot of 01:35:20
cities have a lot of problems around all the holidays. 01:35:25
They they actually call it. 01:35:30
Around Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, so because they have a lot of backups because all the fats oils increase. The other 01:35:32
thing we're having troubles with is the flexible wipes. They're really not flushable. They they're woven together, they catch in 01:35:38
snags and pipes and they just. 01:35:43
11 catches and then they all just gather. 01:35:49
So, you know, that's we try and educate. 01:35:52
Couple times a year. 01:35:55
What's flushable? What's not so? 01:35:57
And we do have grinders in our system, right, to try to get as much of some of those things as possible, right? 01:36:00
The the pumped. 01:36:07
So the pumps that lift too, they're, they're a shredder pump and they're designed. 01:36:09
To pull. 01:36:14
Not big clumps, but. 01:36:16
A yd at a time and just shred it. 01:36:18
The flight pumps at Lift 1. 01:36:21
And three. 01:36:23
Are designed to actually pass the rags, so they'll pass it to lift 2 and then lift to a shredded and send it on the timpanogos 01:36:25
where they have a big screen that pulls it out. 01:36:30
Can I ask while you're here, what? 01:36:38
Support. Do you need from the council to keep this stuff running efficiently, Effectively. Do you need any support as far as 01:36:40
things you've identified through the survey? 01:36:44
Just, uh. 01:36:48
Probably a little more staffing, you know, and and. 01:36:50
We try and keep our budget. 01:36:53
Were we think it. 01:36:55
You know, if we have an emergency we don't have to come to council and ask for money. So and if we don't use it every year it just 01:36:57
goes back into the funds so. 01:37:01
OK. Thank you so much. 01:37:06
Any other questions? 01:37:10
I'm good. You good, I'm good. 01:37:12
Ezra, are you good? 01:37:13
I just want to thank you guys, especially for the no. 01:37:17
The no class one or Class 2. 01:37:21
SSL S. 01:37:25
Those are not fun to deal with for residents or. 01:37:26
Anyone so? 01:37:29
We're glad we're not overflowing our systems, backing into people's homes and ruining our. 01:37:32
Ruining our quality of life and property. So thank you so much for your efforts this year on that. 01:37:37
I appreciate that and those instances that we've had those emergency call outs definitely. 01:37:41
The crews jumping into the vac truck. 01:37:47
And getting out there too on a timely matter have been very important. So thank you. 01:37:50
Well, that's it. That's the end of our presentation and we look forward to having the adopted on the March 24th. 01:37:55
Any comments from the public on that? 01:38:02
OK. Thank you, Naseem. 01:38:06
Next up we have item 3.5 Spring Cleanup Initiative. 01:38:10
This is exciting. 01:38:17
Spring clean up. 01:38:20
But to have summer soccer? 01:38:21
And clean yards. 01:38:23
We've got some options to offer residents. 01:38:26
Um, each one with the estimated. 01:38:31
Expenditure. 01:38:34
The dump pass program. 01:38:37
Is what we are recommending. 01:38:39
But there are options for the council to consider. 01:38:43
Do we currently have more options for the Council to consider? 01:38:49
What's that I was asking? Dude, don't we currently have a dump pass? 01:38:53
System right right now. 01:38:57
That's what it has been in the past. In the past, there's been. 01:38:59
Different, uh. 01:39:02
Variations of the program. 01:39:03
Sometimes dump past twice a year. 01:39:06
We they've also or the city is also offered. 01:39:10
Dumpster dumpsters in. 01:39:15
In the parks. 01:39:19
In the parking with. 01:39:22
Public works have facilitated that. 01:39:23
Brian, do you want to comment on that? 01:39:26
Yeah. So we've gone back and forth the last couple years. We were just doing. 01:39:30
Spring and fall cleanups, just that. 01:39:36
Grove Park, where you'd have a number of dumpsters there. 01:39:38
This last year, like David mentioned, we transitioned into the dumpster passes. 01:39:43
Which there is a dump just right close to the public works building. 01:39:49
And so we figured that might be. 01:39:53
Just as easy for people to come to the park as it is to go there. 01:39:56
Maria did a really awesome. 01:40:00
Analysis for us on the numbers. 01:40:02
Um, of just how many passes we used and how much it cost. 01:40:07
Some of the pros of doing. 01:40:13
The Dumpsters at the park is the fact that it is like right here for residents to come dump all of their stuff. 01:40:16
The downside of that is. 01:40:24
Scheduling it around our recreation programs just be. 01:40:28
It limits parking. 01:40:31
But then also it. 01:40:34
It requires. 01:40:36
Personnel time to be there to just keep everything down. 01:40:38
There are some things that you can't dump in the dumpsters and so anytime that happens. 01:40:42
That can cause us extra fees and it's it's kind of a hassle for the parks team to do. They're willing to do it. 01:40:47
Um, but if you include the staff time. 01:40:54
It's estimated that. 01:40:57
The cost would be more expensive to. 01:40:59
Do the dumpster clean up? 01:41:02
Than to do the dumpster pass program. 01:41:04
Go, but we're open to your. 01:41:08
Questions or thoughts or anything? 01:41:11
No, I mean. 01:41:13
It's kind of convenient. We have a big dumb near us and. 01:41:14
I mean I've I've used that before. I know Orem. I think Orem offers a free pass or something or another city does so us doing the 01:41:17
same or? 01:41:21
A smaller fee I think makes sense so. 01:41:25
Sorry, I think the dump pass program. 01:41:28
Expands the offering in such a way where you know you look at previous years where we've had the big dumpsters parked out at. 01:41:31
Vineyard Grove Park. 01:41:40
And those things. 01:41:41
Fill up and then overflow, and then you have residents that just throw stuff on the side of them and leave them in the parking lot 01:41:42
and it just becomes a nightmare. 01:41:46
So I would argue that it. 01:41:50
Gives us more opportunity. 01:41:51
For residents to. 01:41:54
Actually take advantage of the spring cleanup. 01:41:56
I think, yeah, I thought last year, Maria, well done. I mean, the way it's worked and getting the free passes and I do see on 01:42:00
Facebook you're seeing, hey, I don't have a truck. I don't have that truck and. 01:42:05
But I think, I think doing a combination of both the dumpsters and the the passes is the best. I don't, I don't think we want to 01:42:11
stop the passes and just be like, hey, come to our parks and they're a dump station, you know? 01:42:17
Because yeah, bad people put in batteries and tires and the dump is better for like, hey, you can't put that or. 01:42:23
You can put up. You have to put it. 01:42:30
Side and so I think. 01:42:31
Worked well. I don't. I wouldn't. 01:42:33
Suggest any changes. 01:42:35
From last year. 01:42:36
OK, now the next question then. 01:42:38
Do want to do it? 01:42:41
Once this year or twice this year? 01:42:42
I'm curious. 01:42:46
I keep forgetting, is there a financial change? 01:42:49
Yes, I would get $12.00 for each one. 01:42:51
What the financial change was and if. 01:42:54
We could. I don't know if Lyndon. 01:42:56
Will give us a dump. 01:42:58
Pass deal for bulk ordering. I mean that seems. 01:43:00
Weird, but we could always ask. It's always worth asking. I think they already do that. 01:43:04
In the negotiations they're already looking at, I don't know if that's actually true because when I pull up to the dump right now, 01:43:08
it cost me $12.00 to. 01:43:11
Dump off my. 01:43:14
Truckload of stuff. 01:43:16
So if we're paying $12.00 a pass, that's just the retail. 01:43:17
Yeah, it's retail. 01:43:20
It's the pasture costs. We're their friends. 01:43:22
I don't know, maybe we can make a deal with them somehow. 01:43:26
Give them something. 01:43:29
I wish there was more. 01:43:30
Competition. And then you could have I'll sign A and a. 01:43:31
That is so with those 12, the most economical way of doing it. Did the city pay for that $12.00 for every single one? 01:43:37
Yes, except for we did not. Maria or Brian can speak to this. We did not. 01:43:43
Give it. 01:43:50
Everyone. It was only given to those outside of an HOA. Yeah. So how it was done in the previous year? 01:43:51
Was that anybody who was a homeowner? 01:43:58
Was get it and we didn't do it for HOA's or apartments. The reason for that was because. 01:44:01
Most of the time these hoys or apartments already have giant dumpsters on site so we didn't see the reason to do that and just to 01:44:06
make it a cost effective thing. 01:44:11
So in the previous year we saw 313 people go to the dump and so that was $3756 that we paid out. 01:44:15
Because it was still kind of a transitionary period, we still did a spring dumpster. 01:44:25
In the park, just to kind of. 01:44:30
Help with people who weren't. 01:44:31
You know knew or didn't know about the program or went unaware. 01:44:33
So what we were looking at is. 01:44:37
Whether we wanted to do the same thing where we do just a spring? 01:44:39
Dumpster. 01:44:42
And then also do the dump passes. 01:44:43
Or just do dumped passes all around. 01:44:46
With that, we could either open it up to the HOA's and apartments. 01:44:48
And it is a $12.00. 01:44:52
Cost to the city. 01:44:54
Every time somebody goes over there and does a dump pass, how it was done before is there is a postcard that has two punches on 01:44:56
it. 01:44:59
And the. 01:45:03
Keep track of the home to make sure that nobody's going in and. 01:45:05
Going in four times if their neighbor doesn't use it or anything like that. 01:45:07
But the cost difference is pretty substantial for. 01:45:12
Just spring cleaning alone if we did it in the dumpster. 01:45:16
The dumpsters in the park. 01:45:18
It was going to come out to $4112. That's with the dumpsters pickup and staff time. 01:45:20
So that's just once. 01:45:26
If we do both. 01:45:27
It's about 8 grand. 01:45:29
A little over 8 grand. 01:45:30
As we're. 01:45:31
The dump passes alone were 3700 so. 01:45:33
It's that's what we're kind of wondering if it's really up to you guys if we want to just do the dump passes. That's amazing 01:45:36
because it does save us a lot of money. 01:45:39
On whether you want to keep it to where it is, where it's. 01:45:43
Excluding HOA's and apartments. 01:45:46
Or if you want to add a choice and apartments to that. 01:45:48
I'm curious about looking into as well. 01:45:51
For example, when I lived in Lehigh we would get a punch card we could go pick up from City Hall every year and that punch card 01:45:54
gave you like 5 dump passes a year. 01:45:58
I'm curious and that was a free. 01:46:02
Well, when I get free, I mean free to the resident. 01:46:04
I'm curious if. 01:46:07
We could do something like that or talk to them about that kind of pricing for a punch card. Then you're essentially able to 01:46:08
expand the service and potentially still and that is what we could do. We did too just to kind of do the from my understanding 01:46:13
because that wasn't me at the time. 01:46:18
It was to offset the spring and fall cleanup. That's why we did too. 01:46:24
We could essentially add more passes, but it is going to be the $12.00 every time that something goes different. So I'm curious 01:46:29
about if we can negotiate the pricing a little bit, but I'm also curious about if we can. 01:46:34
Structure a deal in such a way where. 01:46:40
Hey, we have these passes. 01:46:42
Come pick him up and then we'll just pay them every time we issue a pass. 01:46:46
That way we're not actually incurring an expense unless it's being used by the resident. 01:46:50
Correct. And that is how it is. So they don't charge us until they do essentially the following. 01:46:54
The previous month is when they track, they add up everything that's been OK. So they assess based on what what they've tracked. 01:47:00
Yeah. So they they have they sent us in what was used so like. 01:47:05
In January there was only 18 passes redeemed, so they only charged us 216. The following month it was 31. So they only do it based 01:47:10
on how many times people go. They don't charge us. 01:47:14
Beforehand they just charge us per usage. 01:47:19
OK. Which fund does this get funded out of? Is this a general fund expense? 01:47:21
OK. 01:47:26
I will have to check on that. 01:47:28
I would lean on, I would lean on not doing the dumpster because it's a cost whether it's full or not full, right, correct. Yeah, 01:47:30
it's the larger cost and the the 8000. 01:47:34
For doing both its 8225 that doesn't include. 01:47:40
The cost for dumping itself, That's just for. 01:47:45
Republic Services to bring the dumpsters right and do that we would still have to then they would weigh it out at the dump. And 01:47:48
what you're saying is that we could use it twice as much for the same cost if it's just yeah, so like. 01:47:54
You could give. 01:48:00
Four passes instead of 2, correct? Yeah. 01:48:01
Like nobody's gonna take 4, so it's or you could have them at the office when somebody complaints on social media. 01:48:03
Stop by and grab a pass. 01:48:09
Great. Yeah. And that that is how Jenna was previously doing it. She had it extra passes so that either she or one like Janice, 01:48:11
the receptionist could go up and and handle it to a resident and sign it out. 01:48:17
OK. I would definitely do that policy of just like. 01:48:22
Because then you you could just say. 01:48:26
If you needed three through the year. 01:48:28
Then just stop by the City Hall during our office hours and. 01:48:30
And if we had an amount? 01:48:32
Yeah, previously it was just like a postcard that had two dumps. 01:48:35
Or two punches on it. We could essentially change it to one punch. 01:48:38
Or we could just give one out like I said the the dumps. 01:48:42
We'll keep track of it. Once you give your address, they are going to. 01:48:45
Make sure that you're not going in and. 01:48:48
Taking them from your neighbors or going into the City Hall and getting extras. 01:48:50
Out of curiosity, why do they care about that? 01:48:55
For example, if Jake doesn't use his third or second punch. 01:48:57
Why can't I use his punch? 01:49:00
It probably I think it's just to maintain. 01:49:02
To ensure that you're not getting the cost isn't exceeding like if you have someone going in a lot more, coming in multiple times, 01:49:04
you could have a business like a landscaper going, hey, I'm hitting this 12 times over and over. Yeah, it's just to kind of 01:49:10
regulate it and make sure that we're not going, yeah, a little overboard on the cost. 01:49:16
Using somebody else's past without their permission, right? Yeah. 01:49:22
So now I would I would recommend getting rid of the dumpster and just. 01:49:25
Advocating on when somebody brings up a dumpster. Stop by City Hall. If you need an extra 1, let us know. Yeah, and that's for 01:49:30
sure what? 01:49:34
We were recommending. We just wanted to get. 01:49:38
Feedback from the Council, just from. 01:49:41
Brian and Preston standpoint with Parks is if they were going to do the dumpsters, they needed to order them soon, so they just 01:49:43
wanted to make sure and we were all on the same page. 01:49:47
Now I just say well done. 01:49:51
The whole thing last year was really good and I heard. 01:49:53
Positive thing. So I think getting rid of the dumpsters is the transition year has been done and. 01:49:55
And uh. 01:50:01
But I would just be really proactive, especially if us as a council members like, oh, just stop by City Hall, we can forward them 01:50:02
to you guys and. 01:50:06
They'll love it. 01:50:10
Just the same, I mean, if they're getting it into a vehicle to get it to a park there. 01:50:11
Getting it in a vehicle to. 01:50:15
Take it to the. 01:50:17
North instead of wherever you know it's not that far away. 01:50:18
So why have a staging? 01:50:21
So do you want one? 01:50:24
Or two passes. 01:50:26
I would stay the same as two. I would. I prefer two. You give them a spring and the fall. Or you know, they use it whenever they 01:50:27
want to use it, but that's essentially what it is. 01:50:31
OK. Thank you. 01:50:36
I'm on here. You mentioned that. 01:50:41
Are not located within the HOA, I think water's edges. 01:50:43
Still including that are some Hoas. 01:50:47
Because I know I live in water's edge and still get a. 01:50:49
Still going to pass, but do we want to look at expanding that to the apartments Well. 01:50:52
I feel like that might be let's let's ask the clarifying question then. 01:50:56
Just the sub HOA's that you're referencing because when you say water's edge, you encompass 80% of. 01:51:00
Residents in Vineyard and just one where we do allow it just because. 01:51:05
Realistically, they are in a subway, but they are, they don't have those big exemptions. They don't all they all of them don't 01:51:11
have clubhouses. 01:51:15
Where they have those big numbers as well. So we did include that. 01:51:19
OK, you good with that Ezra? 01:51:22
And yeah, and on the financing, I believe this is paid out of the sanitation fee that's on the utility bill. 01:51:23
So. 01:51:30
I think right now we give the passes out to everybody who pays into that utility bill so that. 01:51:32
Everyone's contributing is getting. 01:51:37
The benefit of it? 01:51:39
So if we want to expand that, we should look at how we're financing that as well. 01:51:41
Just doing what we've currently been doing is good and getting rid of the dumpsters. 01:51:48
OK, unless there's public comments, we'll move on to 3.6. Daria, you want to come up? 01:51:54
OK. 01:51:59
Daria Evans Villas resident I wonder if that will also include the villas? 01:52:05
Community, we do not have a dumpster. 01:52:09
So if we could get dumpster past the dump passes that would be great. 01:52:13
Yeah, I, I don't see why not. I think that'd be great, yeah. 01:52:17
We're in. 01:52:21
You guys have your trash down through this the Republic Services or do you have a different provider? 01:52:26
We have a different provider. 01:52:32
She said different provider. 01:52:33
OK, OK. 01:52:34
Yeah, we probably want to look at doing that. 01:52:37
Across the board, then if we're going to bring in people that aren't paying into the. 01:52:39
Utility fee. 01:52:44
That would be my suggestion is. 01:52:45
If we want to make this a general. 01:52:47
Fund expense for well. 01:52:50
I'm curious too then. I mean, if we're going to go down the rabbit hole, let's look at. 01:52:52
If they're not already paying into that fee. 01:52:55
Can we assess A1 time fee when they come to want to pick up a pass and say hey look it's. 01:52:58
10 bucks, 12 bucks, whatever. 01:53:04
If it's 12 they can just go to the dump and pay the 12, correct? But if we're already paying the retail fee anyways. 01:53:07
Yeah. 01:53:13
There's no reason for them to pick up a pass if it's 12 bucks because. 01:53:16
They just have to pay that at the. 01:53:20
They dump anyway if they're going there, so. 01:53:21
Yes, but we also don't want to incentivize losing money. 01:53:24
So if it costs us $12.00. 01:53:28
You don't want to give a resident a pass for less than $12.00. 01:53:31
Yeah, the residents don't pay unless. 01:53:36
So like the punch cards when you go to the dump, the dump tracks how many Vineyard residents? 01:53:39
Dump and then they charge us. 01:53:43
There's no expense for us to. 01:53:45
Issue passes. 01:53:48
Except for when they use it and we get charged. So you don't want to give a pass to somebody. 01:53:49
For less than $12.00. 01:53:54
Yes, and I would argue that. 01:53:59
You don't want to give a pass to somebody for $12.00 because they can just go to the dump without having to come into the city. 01:54:01
We're not in the business of the dump. 01:54:05
Are we don't want to generate revenue off of that? 01:54:09
We're trying to provide a service to a resident based on a fee that they pay, and if they don't pay the fee, we need to break even 01:54:12
on it. 01:54:15
Yeah, so. 01:54:21
So it's either the dump charges us $12.00. 01:54:23
A resident who comes in and gets a pass. 01:54:26
Or the resident pays. 01:54:28
Pay directly to the dump and. 01:54:33
Instead of paying the city correct. 01:54:35
I'm saying don't. 01:54:39
Don't issue pre passes. 01:54:40
It's either we issue free passes and choose to subsidize that. 01:54:42
Or if we're going to charge $12.00, don't even have the passes. 01:54:45
Because they can just go to the dump and pay the $12.00. 01:54:48
And that it's not costing the city residents? Yes. 01:54:51
Okay. 01:54:58
We get to move on to 3.6, which is Operation Neighborhood Shield, yes. 01:55:03
The question I was asking is, do we want to subsidize that for? 01:55:09
Residents who aren't paying into the sanitation fee. 01:55:13
No. 01:55:16
Basically the question. 01:55:17
I don't think so. 01:55:19
Keep it the same and not include the villas. 01:55:21
If they want. 01:55:24
The. 01:55:26
We should. 01:55:27
At least. 01:55:28
Break even on the pass. 01:55:29
That is my point. 01:55:31
So if we can talk to the dump. 01:55:33
And we can get away with $10. 01:55:36
Then we can offer it to them at $10 and they save $2.00 and that's a great deal. 01:55:39
And if we can't? 01:55:43
Then we should at least charge what it costs us. 01:55:46
To break even. 01:55:49
Yeah. We're not in the garbage business. We're not in the subsidizing garbage business. 01:55:51
We're not in the waste removal business. 01:55:55
We do this nice service one time, yeah. 01:55:59
On that before we move. 01:56:03
You have to try to get a discount. 01:56:05
I I believe that we have already done that. 01:56:08
Pretty thoroughly. 01:56:11
Yeah. 01:56:12
On the topic of. 01:56:14
This is more generally staff. 01:56:17
On the topic of. 01:56:20
Spring cleanup. Earth Day beach cleanup. 01:56:22
Has the lake authority. 01:56:24
Reached out on doing anything. Here we are we. 01:56:26
I know where. 01:56:30
Ty, I haven't seen anything. 01:56:31
Is anyone leading that up? 01:56:32
Not putting pressure if we are not. 01:56:35
If we're not this year because we're in a transitional year. 01:56:37
And the lake authority is usually. 01:56:41
LED that and then we kind of. 01:56:42
Come on with staff, right? 01:56:45
But I hadn't seen anything. 01:56:47
I know we have a lot of garbage on the lake. I was walking there. Yeah, I know. The initial plan is to still do a lake cleanup. 01:56:55
But Utah Lake Authority. 01:57:01
They didn't have the plans to donate again this year. They're happy to help if we do a cleanup. 01:57:03
But they wouldn't be. 01:57:08
Giving any funds to. 01:57:10
Do plants or anything like that, right? They're not doing, Yeah, they're not doing a planting thing that they did last year. 01:57:12
Yeah, by the way, I don't know if those plans. 01:57:18
Were successful at growing. 01:57:20
I've walked along there, it hasn't been very but. 01:57:22
Is it OK? I know this is an agenda item but it's a working session. 01:57:28
Do we want a staff? 01:57:32
Wanting to do something is is that? Is that the idea? 01:57:33
Is there a leadership behind it or is it just? 01:57:37
So that was. 01:57:39
So that was one of the events. 01:57:40
That we've done the past. 01:57:42
That we've looked at, but. 01:57:46
Once again, as Brian said. 01:57:48
We had third party support, right? 01:57:50
And, umm. 01:57:54
If we. 01:57:55
Do it? We probably want to scale it back in terms of like in the past, we've paid for T-shirts and right. 01:57:56
And things that are. 01:58:05
Not. 01:58:06
Really about. 01:58:08
Cleanup. 01:58:09
I guess, is that right? We could probably do a big volunteer. 01:58:11
Activity out on the lake probably encourage young men, young women. 01:58:15
Religious. 01:58:19
Institutions to get involved in. 01:58:20
Clean it up. 01:58:22
Conservative Utah Valley is a very strong organization that. 01:58:25
In the past has wanted to do it, but they've worked in conjunction with the Lake Authority. 01:58:29
But I've asked them like what? 01:58:34
You've done things in Lehigh. Just them. 01:58:36
And why haven't you done it? And they said we just haven't been asked. So if there isn't like a lead person. 01:58:39
Would we be opposed to having a lead person in US? 01:58:45
Supporting it was great to work with a third party and let them lead and we're. 01:58:48
And to help us support yes. 01:58:53
OK, I'll reach out and. 01:58:55
I know we're going to be learning on our interfaith. 01:58:57
Thursday. 01:59:00
Seeing how many volunteers and different organizations of service projects of. 01:59:02
And so if there's an appetite to get. 01:59:06
Support through that, maybe I'll bring it back to if that's OK. 01:59:09
I don't love. 01:59:13
Dude, you go out and clean the lake. It's there's a special spirit out there. It's awesome. When you get out there, you're just 01:59:15
like. 01:59:18
I wish I was doing this all the time and someone that does the cleanup. 01:59:21
Annually. 01:59:24
All you got to do is do it once and you fall in love with it. 01:59:26
So and Vineyard we. 01:59:29
Because of the. 01:59:32
The winds. 01:59:33
From uh. 01:59:34
West to east. 01:59:36
All of the stuff always comes to our beach, not Saratoga, so we always say thank you for all the. 01:59:38
Things that fall in the lake, they always come our side and it's fun to gather that so. 01:59:43
Thanks, Saratoga. 01:59:48
Retouch on that in. 01:59:49
3.7. 01:59:52
When we talk about volunteerism. 01:59:53
OK. Are we good to move on to 3.6, which is Operation Neighborhood Shield? 01:59:55
Yes, No, nobody's objecting. David, would you like to make a comment? 02:00:00
Please come on up. 02:00:05
I love these working sessions where we just get a talk. 02:00:09
They're great. Me too. 02:00:11
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 02:00:13
I want to say. 02:00:16
That for us. 02:00:17
The light cleanup is really a neat event. 02:00:18
Right. 02:00:21
What we experience. 02:00:24
Is families. 02:00:26
Coming in with bags, little kids. 02:00:28
And they're excited. 02:00:31
This I picked that. 02:00:33
And it's just a great. 02:00:35
Community event. 02:00:37
And it's really neat so to have a T-shirt. 02:00:38
You know, that's kind of yeah. 02:00:43
Yeah, we're here. We're part of this group. 02:00:44
So. 02:00:47
I personally, I would be a strong supporter of that. 02:00:49
And to your point. 02:00:53
I think we owe a debt of gratitude. 02:00:54
To Saratoga Springs for giving us a great opportunity to clean. I'll tell the mayor. 02:00:57
The other. 02:01:05
The other point is. 02:01:06
I pay into. 02:01:07
The fund that. 02:01:09
That helps. 02:01:10
With trash and and. 02:01:12
And. 02:01:14
Picking thing and. 02:01:17
Trash removal and. 02:01:20
That sort of thing. 02:01:22
And I don't know as a taxpayer. 02:01:23
As much as I love. 02:01:27
Want to subsidize someone else? 02:01:29
Who doesn't pay? 02:01:32
Into that fund. 02:01:33
Right. So I just. 02:01:35
Want to make that? 02:01:36
Thank you. 02:01:38
Yeah, you make that point. 02:01:39
OK. We're moving on to Operation Neighborhood Shield. 02:01:42
This is exciting, David. 02:01:46
Teach me all about operation neighborhood shield. Teach you all well so this comes from public this idea comes from public 02:01:47
feedback and the direction the council is given to the mayor to. 02:01:53
Enforce parking and occupancy. 02:01:59
Especially in the areas of Lechonte. Did I get that right? Lemonade. It's Frenchman. I'm not French. 02:02:03
English, not French. Bridgeport and the garden not the gardens. 02:02:12
So yeah. 02:02:18
OK, so. 02:02:19
What we've if everyone if you have the document. 02:02:21
Pulled up. 02:02:25
Or if you've reviewed it in the past. 02:02:27
And Jesse, are you there? 02:02:29
He's finding his mute button. 02:02:33
So. 02:02:35
Yes, just making sure. So you'll probably want to comment on this. We need. So the first phase of this program is doing an 02:02:37
ordinance review. 02:02:41
We need to work together with. 02:02:46
Legal. 02:02:52
And our wonderful chief here next to me. 02:02:53
And of course, wonderful legal as well. 02:02:56
To make sure that we have the proper. 02:02:58
Ordinances for these three areas and that they're. 02:03:02
They're fine-tuned for. 02:03:05
What's the right word? 02:03:11
Yes, for enforcement purposes. 02:03:14
So we're just. 02:03:17
Basically it's a simple review. 02:03:18
And it's also about reviewing our towing ordinances and. 02:03:20
The company or companies we want to go with and the methodology that we want to use in terms of parking passes. 02:03:26
So we will be critically looking at those areas. 02:03:34
And looking at maximum occupancy limits. 02:03:40
What are illegal rental definitions are? 02:03:44
And of course. 02:03:47
Evidence for code enforcement actions. 02:03:49
Necessary evidence. 02:03:53
I don't know who wants to go first on this, So what we'll do is we'll be bringing necessary changes or recommended changes to the 02:03:59
council. 02:04:03
For review and a vote. 02:04:08
Awesome. 02:04:10
When would you expect? 02:04:11
To have those draft changes available for review. 02:04:13
We want to have them by the end of the month. 02:04:16
Solve 15 days. 02:04:18
So it would be really quick. 02:04:20
For just the citizens to know. 02:04:24
We've been gathering hundreds of citizens feedback and we want to hear more of it. 02:04:28
I know I've directed them all to Jacob Wood because he's kind of been the leading HOA parking guru and given that assignment. 02:04:35
But. 02:04:42
It's really been helpful. 02:04:43
To learn about every neighborhood challenge and distinction. 02:04:45
And culture that is in. 02:04:50
Each each needed neighborhood. 02:04:52
And it is time consuming but. 02:04:55
Because it. 02:04:57
Is so nuanced it makes the plan better. 02:04:58
So for citizens listening in it. 02:05:02
Engage. Get involved like. 02:05:04
Tell us about it There's. 02:05:07
There's so many intricate details of. 02:05:09
Each neighbor, it's just every neighborhood is so unique. 02:05:13
And so. 02:05:16
Yeah. The thing that I would give staff is. 02:05:17
In they're doing a good job. 02:05:20
I mean, I have full faith in David Kyle. 02:05:23
And also the attorney in. 02:05:26
In organizing all of this and. 02:05:28
Maria and all of them have done a good job so. 02:05:30
So that is a great segue into phase two of the plan, which is the public awareness campaign. 02:05:33
Which will include reaching out to residents for. 02:05:40
Input. 02:05:43
And that is not just input, but also communication with residents, including distribution of door hangers and informational 02:05:45
Flyers. 02:05:49
The information Flyers are going to be oversized. 02:05:55
For attention. 02:05:59
Purposes. 02:06:00
Patrol during this time of public awareness. 02:06:02
And putting out Flyers and door hangers will also have an increase in patrol vehicles. 02:06:05
Visibility and citations for illegal parking so. 02:06:11
We will. 02:06:16
We will basically gradually roll out this process. There will be a noticeable increase. 02:06:18
And hopefully that. 02:06:24
Gets. 02:06:26
Residents attention and gets their feedback so that we can quickly. 02:06:28
Fine tune and modify this program as we move towards full rollout. 02:06:33
Residents will also be encouraged to report concerns through. 02:06:39
A new initiation. A new. 02:06:44
See something Say Something campaign. 02:06:47
Basically this will be going out with of course the. 02:06:50
Flyers and the door hangers, but also on social media. 02:06:54
I've also spoken with Councilmember Wood. 02:07:00
And council member Holdaway about communication with residents. 02:07:04
On from a door to door perspective and and getting. 02:07:08
Feedback. A lot of times residents don't know. 02:07:12
What's happening unless you knock on their door? 02:07:16
So this is going to, this is not just going to be a staff. 02:07:18
This part of the program. 02:07:24
Is not just going to be staff but it's also going to need the support of the council in. 02:07:26
Door knocking. 02:07:31
And getting feedback. 02:07:32
Yeah, and that will also help with public relations as well. 02:07:33
Making sure that this rolls out smoothly. 02:07:39
Phase 3 will start in April, the beginning of April. 02:07:42
During this this is our. 02:07:46
Basically our our notice period where we're going to get more aggressive with our. 02:07:49
Our Flyers and door hangers. There's going to be multiple rounds of Flyers and door hangers. 02:07:53
So. 02:07:59
So there's multiple aspects. 02:08:01
And reasons for doing. 02:08:05
One is is to make sure that everybody in the house sees that if there is over occupancy in the house. 02:08:07
Not just one roommate will see it, but. 02:08:13
Potentially will have multiple roommates seeing these handouts, Flyers and door hangers and potentially mailers. 02:08:17
This will. 02:08:24
This will also. 02:08:30
Include collecting. 02:08:33
Evidence and beginning investigations so. 02:08:36
While we're collect, while we're collecting information from residents and why we're putting up all of the door hangers and the. 02:08:42
Flyers, we're going to be getting a lot of information from residents that we're going to be using it to present our cases. 02:08:49
So I can imagine as the City Council, you're knocking on doors, you're talking with neighbors, you're not only getting feedback. 02:08:55
But you're getting. 02:09:03
Potential evidence that could be used in the future. So making sure we have proper documentation is going to be critical and a 02:09:04
little training for all of us is going to be required. 02:09:10
So we plan on at the same time in April, we're going to be checking public rental listings. 02:09:18
I mentioned neighborhood complaints and we we get those in multiple and multiple ways and sources. 02:09:25
And then of course, property visits by officers I've talked with and David and Councilmember David Larae have we've sat down with 02:09:31
Chief Holden. 02:09:35
About property visits. 02:09:39
And if we do find that there's a. 02:09:42
Potential problem. 02:09:45
That officers are willing to go over and knock on the door and see if we can. 02:09:47
Get someone to. 02:09:52
Admit that there's multiple people living at the residence. 02:09:56
So do you want to speak to that? 02:09:59
I mean, we're willing. Most of the time, most of these complaints come with parking complaints. And so there's been in the past 02:10:04
where we've gone out and knocked on the door and hey, you guys got too many parked cars parked here. 02:10:08
Who lives here? 02:10:12
You know, I mean, and then we can gather some information there. So we have some. 02:10:13
Some data on. 02:10:17
We got five people living here. 02:10:18
So and then we can use that as evidence if we were able to. 02:10:20
You know, get that information from whoever we speak with. 02:10:23
So you know. 02:10:25
I would just like to say. 02:10:28
That it's important. 02:10:30
That people. 02:10:31
That our staff understands. 02:10:33
That. 02:10:35
They have done a fantastic job over the past couple years. 02:10:36
In implementing the policy that the previous Council. 02:10:41
Implemented. 02:10:44
And that they are not held accountable for that. 02:10:46
Policy. 02:10:48
That makes sense. 02:10:50
Like they're sometimes criticism to staff. 02:10:51
Of saying oh this is so bad. 02:10:55
Well, that's the policy that they were given and so like. 02:10:58
Now, with the new council giving a different directive. 02:11:02
It's not like hey, staff were bad and we're now. 02:11:06
Changing our staff have always been great, it's just. 02:11:10
And even I'm not saying the previous counselor bad people. It's just a different philosophy. 02:11:13
And I'd like to articulate that policy so that. 02:11:18
Staff know, but also. 02:11:22
Residents know. 02:11:24
This is not an infringement on property rights. 02:11:26
When somebody buys a home. 02:11:29
They have the right. 02:11:31
And they know when they buy it how many people can live in the home. 02:11:33
It's actually an infringement on their neighbors. 02:11:37
Rights to have access to the same public Rd. because they're going above and beyond. 02:11:40
What their right is given? 02:11:46
Following the state code and policy is protecting everyone and we don't want to infringe on somebody's right of like, hey, if they 02:11:49
can have 4. 02:11:53
Unique individuals into a home. 02:11:57
We're not going to infringe upon that. 02:11:59
Specific but. 02:12:01
In those instances where they go above and beyond. 02:12:03
Their legal right and are using it. That's where we want. 02:12:06
And that is showing kindness to our neighbors. 02:12:10
By not. 02:12:14
Breaking city code. 02:12:15
And whatnot. And so if we're going to have a code. 02:12:17
I believe, and I'm not speaking for the whole council, is. 02:12:20
We don't want to lose our neighborhood because we're just allowing. 02:12:24
Bad actors. 02:12:28
That. 02:12:29
Are going above and beyond that code and infringing on the kindness of others of saying. 02:12:30
And I think that's what we've heard is these neighborhoods are saying. 02:12:36
We're getting. 02:12:39
We're getting our right to. 02:12:41
Access the equal access to these public roads or private roads. 02:12:42
Infringed upon because. 02:12:47
City code isn't being current. City code isn't being. 02:12:49
Enforced if I'm. 02:12:53
But I just want to say thank you to. 02:12:54
Our staff in. 02:12:56
Navigating the changing structure and policy and understanding how much we love them and care about them. 02:12:59
And and the. 02:13:06
The lift in changing public. 02:13:09
Policy is is difficult, so there will be some. 02:13:11
Some blowback and we're going to have to be out educating. 02:13:15
And. 02:13:19
Well, the second thing that I would say to. 02:13:19
David Kyle. 02:13:22
Getting out. 02:13:24
In meeting with the neighborhood. 02:13:25
And making sure that that neighborhood has a specific plan and that they're owning that plan. 02:13:27
And that citizens get involved as a group. 02:13:34
And coming to Councilman Wood, we've had. 02:13:37
Quite a lot of great meetings. Where? 02:13:40
You know, Councilman would have sat him down and said, OK, this isn't our plan, this is your plan, this is your neighborhood. 02:13:43
Does everyone in the neighborhood agree with this or can we get a consensus now? You're not going to get 100%. 02:13:49
But making sure that OK walking out of this meeting. 02:13:55
These are the details because there's a lot of tools in the toolbox. Is this the specific plan that your neighborhood needs 02:13:59
implemented here? And so I would just submit to the citizens. 02:14:05
Make sure you're involved with the leadership group of each neighborhood. 02:14:10
In designing the. 02:14:16
The right plan and policy for you. 02:14:17
So can I ask and maybe you're about to address it? 02:14:20
In your continued presentation here. 02:14:23
But let's say in this phase of error. 02:14:26
Your operation. 02:14:28
Deputy goes, knocks on a door. 02:14:30
They say, yeah, we've got 12 college kids living in this house. 02:14:32
What is the next step? 02:14:36
So I was just about to get into supporting evidence. Let's go. 02:14:38
That I mean. 02:14:45
The Segway into. 02:14:47
Chief Holden's remarks. Deputy Chief Holden's remarks. 02:14:50
Is. 02:14:53
The collection and. 02:14:54
Go ahead. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 02:14:57
Maria, Maria, that's right. I was going to say that. And I'm like. 02:15:00
Am I gonna get it wrong? Maria can go into the detail she has. 02:15:03
Been educating me about what we need. 02:15:08
And in order to be able to do enforcement. So go ahead, Maria. 02:15:11
Yeah, so for all the new council members that don't know, I do code enforcement, I am the cities code enforcement officer. 02:15:14
With kind of any case occupancy. 02:15:22
Parking, anything like that. 02:15:26
The way that I'm looking at it, as the code enforcement officers, I'm looking to build a legal case. 02:15:27
That's just kind of the standard. 02:15:33
Is that? 02:15:35
You're trying to make it so that if for whatever reason, you go to a judge. 02:15:36
You're going to win. 02:15:41
That's the goal is you want as a city. 02:15:42
To find enough evidence to make sure that if you go in and say hey, this person's out of compliance. 02:15:44
This is the reason why the biggest issue with occupancy. 02:15:49
Is the lack of evidence that I received so while people might submit a home multiple times and say. 02:15:53
You know I'm their neighbor. I've been their neighbor for 10 plus years. I know that there are 6 people living in the home. I 02:15:59
don't doubt that you know that you're always going to know who's living next to you. 02:16:03
The issue is is that they don't have anything to show me that. 02:16:08
A lot of it is just well, there's cars parked outside, there's the same 5 cars parked outside. 02:16:11
And while that is. 02:16:16
A sign that's not something that we would consider substantial evidence. Reason for that is because people can have people 02:16:18
visiting, someone can have multiple cars. 02:16:22
You might. 02:16:27
Meet someone who's in their 20s who just so happens to. 02:16:29
Have three cars and their roommates all have one car, so you're going to get an extra amount. 02:16:31
Along with. 02:16:37
You get people who lie and that's. 02:16:39
Not a fun thing to say. You never want to say that people are going to lie to your face. 02:16:41
But that is how it is. 02:16:44
So what I'm looking for a lot of the time is either. 02:16:46
Text message evidence. 02:16:49
Conversation that was recorded and or they can sign an affidavit saying that I did have this conversation. 02:16:51
We're either a tenant or a landlord. 02:16:57
Property management. 02:17:00
Yeah, we have 6 people living in the home. We have five guys over here. 02:17:01
And then that is where I can go in and say, look, I've been presented evidence that you do have. 02:17:07
An over occupancy issue. 02:17:12
You can either submit. 02:17:14
Proof that you're not. 02:17:16
And that they were mistaken. 02:17:17
Or. 02:17:19
You need to come into compliance. 02:17:20
Whether that be. 02:17:22
They give me. 02:17:24
A time frame that they're going to come into compliance. My goal is never to kick anyone out. 02:17:25
That's kind of my big thing. I don't want to. 02:17:29
Especially because a lot of the time these are college kids. You never want to say hey you got to leave in 2 a days, figure it 02:17:31
out. 02:17:33
And legally, you just cannot. You cannot. 02:17:36
Give someone a 2 day notice. You have to give the minimum of 30 days. 02:17:38
Can I ask, do you actually have the ability to kick somebody out if you? Yeah, OK. So. 02:17:42
So that's not something that any city is going to do. There's never going to be an eviction process. 02:17:47
The sheriff's aren't going to go out and do an eviction process. 02:17:52
The goal is to get the owner of the home to do that and that is their responsibility, so. 02:17:55
I give a timeframe. I say. 02:18:01
Here's two weeks to either provide me evidence that you're in compliance. 02:18:02
Or to give me a time frame that you're going to come into compliance. So if someone says OK I'm going to give them a 30 day 02:18:06
notice, can I have till the end of next month? 02:18:10
I'll say OK, and I'll check in on that at that time. 02:18:14
The But like I said, the biggest thing is we're going to need something that shows that, whether it's. 02:18:18
Conversation. 02:18:23
Recording, uh. 02:18:25
The tenant just acknowledging it. I've had people where they have. 02:18:26
Community group chats. 02:18:29
And the like, the tenant accidentally says like, Oh yeah, the downstairs tenant and me. 02:18:32
And that shows that there's multiple tenants in the home. 02:18:37
If the leases, yeah, I've I've gone people who get their neighbors leases. 02:18:42
And submit that to me to show that they are out of compliance. I'm not sure how they're getting it. 02:18:46
But you know, if they can achieve it, they can do it. 02:18:51
Well, as real estate. 02:18:54
How How would you gather evidence is just taking a screenshot of the listing? 02:18:56
Airbnbs are difficult because state law is very strict on what? 02:19:00
A code enforcement officer can and can't do to enforce. 02:19:04
And that's gotten a little bit better with the last season. 02:19:07
Or the last legislative season, I should say. 02:19:10
Previously you couldn't use a listing at all. 02:19:12
Didn't matter whether I saw it myself, if someone sent it to me, we were not allowed to use the listing. 02:19:15
As evidence. 02:19:20
That changed the last legislative season to where we can use the listening. 02:19:22
As long as we have supporting. 02:19:25
Evidence, so that has to be someone reporting it in our case. 02:19:28
So if someone doesn't report the Airbnb, I unfortunately just can't go after it while I'm aware that they're all there and I have 02:19:32
a list of everybody who has one. 02:19:35
I usually have to wait until someone submits a concern so citizen can like take a picture of the house, take a picture of the 02:19:39
listing and then just e-mail it to you and then yeah, so they can submit it through the report a concern portal on the website. 02:19:44
That goes directly to me and the planning department. 02:19:51
Usually cash. 02:19:54
As well, but. 02:19:56
That'll be so that I can look at it. 02:19:57
Once that is sent to me, then I can go after it and say, look, I know that you have an Airbnb. 02:20:00
The state's just very strict on. 02:20:06
If you don't have it, you can't use it. 02:20:07
So even if I were, I have a list of everybody I know who's doing it. 02:20:10
If I don't have a complaint, I can't legally go after it until I have supporting evidence. 02:20:14
And so that usually is going to be the complaint. 02:20:19
OK, I still want to run this down the rabbit hole a little bit. Just. 02:20:23
Just for understanding clarity, get everything on the record type stuff. 02:20:26
So let's say deputy goes knocks on the door. 02:20:30
Got his body Cam on. 02:20:34
Six people answered the door. They all say we live here and we all have our. 02:20:37
Families living here too, and it's just. 02:20:41
Massive over occupancy issue. Dozens of cars on the street. 02:20:43
And all of this is recorded. 02:20:47
That information comes to you. 02:20:50
OK, your next step is to reach out to the owner. 02:20:52
Yes, yeah. So it'd be the homeowner. They get a notice of violation that says, hey, we've found that your property is out of 02:20:55
compliance. 02:20:58
I do cite the code. 02:21:01
That says, you know, this is what you're out of compliance with. 02:21:03
And then I will give them. 02:21:07
The time frame that they have to come into compliance. 02:21:09
My contact information so they can reach out to me directly as well as. 02:21:11
The violation that would be assessed if they do not come into compliance. 02:21:15
And then with that, let's say they don't do anything. I don't hear back from them. 02:21:19
They're going to get a daily violation fee. 02:21:23
Our code states that it's per violation, and essentially what that is is. 02:21:27
Every additional person is a violation. So if therefore. 02:21:32
Correct. Yeah. So if there's eight people living in a home. 02:21:35
You have 4 violations, so it's $100 per violation per day. So that'd be a $400.00 per day fine. 02:21:38
Is that connected to their utility bill? 02:21:44
No. So that's that's just. 02:21:46
So that's me giving that fine and administering it. 02:21:48
If for some reason that person doesn't pay, that fine. 02:21:51
That's never happened. I'm actually very persuasive on getting people to pay their fines. 02:21:54
That's something I'm I've always been good at, especially on the utility billing side. I. 02:21:59
Somehow. 02:22:03
Get people to pay their fines. 02:22:04
But money? 02:22:06
Yeah, so my wife has that talent too. 02:22:08
I she's very nice. Honestly, I'm I wouldn't be shocked. 02:22:10
But yeah, so if for some reason, let's say they don't, they are they? 02:22:15
Don't want to do it. 02:22:18
There's a couple different avenues. Our code does say that we can send them to collections, we can place a lien on their home, or 02:22:19
we can just take them to court for it as well. 02:22:23
That's never gotten to that point just because they have paid their fines for the people who have received them or they've said 02:22:27
that they're coming into compliance, correct, Correct. Yeah. Or they somebody says they come into compliance but they don't come 02:22:32
into compliance is the follow up the same process. So in our code it does state and in my violation fee itself or my violation 02:22:37
notice itself it does state. 02:22:42
That if for some reason they are found out of compliance within a 12 month period, it is an automatic violation and they will get 02:22:47
an automatic fine. They do not get a warning. 02:22:51
It is just an immediate fine at that point. 02:22:56
Does the state dictate what those fine numbers are? 02:22:58
Our consolidated fee schedule does. 02:23:01
So it gives me. 02:23:05
For occupancy, it's 100. 02:23:07
Per day, per violation, and that's something that was said. 02:23:09
By last Council. 02:23:12
$100 a day if they've got more occupants per violation, yeah. 02:23:15
Per person over the. Is that stiffen up in your opinion? Yeah, I mean realistically, like if you're getting told. 02:23:19
Hey, you have 7 people in this home. 02:23:24
And you're going to get $300 a day in violations. That's usually going to push you. 02:23:27
OK, umm. 02:23:31
Because and if first and I've had people who don't. 02:23:32
Reach out to me a week and 1/2 and. 02:23:35
I do send them weekly reminders that say hey you are now up to this violation, fine, if you do not reach out to me. 02:23:38
It's going to continue. 02:23:44
When you find a house out of compliance, are you leaving? 02:23:45
A paper on their door of like. So I e-mail them and I will mail them a letter. 02:23:48
OK, I found that e-mail is usually a little bit quicker of a response than. 02:23:53
Also sending it to mail so. 02:23:57
Legally, you're required to send it through mail. 02:23:59
At least that's the recommendation. You just have to get at least 2 notices out there. 02:24:01
Usually for Airbnbs I put a notice on the door itself just because. 02:24:06
The owner's not there most of the time, they're not going to see it. 02:24:10
But if? 02:24:13
Whoever staying there sees it, they'll probably reach out to the host and say, hey, this is on the door, what is this about? 02:24:14
But for homes with just like tenants? 02:24:20
I'll e-mail. 02:24:23
The notice to their. 02:24:26
Just because we have it on file with their utility bill. 02:24:27
And then I will mail out a notice as well. 02:24:30
And then the fine for the Airbnb would be the same. 02:24:32
I do $100 per day as well. 02:24:35
When it does hit. 02:24:39
The and it is in violation, so you've hit the 30 days. 02:24:40
Is there any public? 02:24:45
Disclosure at that point that you're. 02:24:47
I would love the citizens to know I don't tend to do that because the. 02:24:49
The goal isn't to necessarily shame people. And that's, that's kind of the, the consensus I've gotten is. 02:24:54
I when I have put notices on door people will feel like I'm shaming them or publicly shaming them because their neighbors are 02:24:59
seeing this and you have to recognize it's not the tenants fault. 02:25:03
Right. Yeah, it's a landlord issue. 02:25:07
And a lot of the time, what you'll see is landlords knowing the system. Knowing what? 02:25:10
I need. 02:25:15
I can and can't use, so you'll get owners who will train their tenants to say there's only four people in the home. 02:25:17
Even though they know that they're out of compliance. 02:25:24
Or. 02:25:26
They are aware of. 02:25:27
What I can and can't do currently and so they're like, well I only have 4. 02:25:28
And if. 02:25:32
I don't have any evidence. I have to go based off of what the owner says because there's no other. 02:25:33
Proof of that. 02:25:37
I understand that. 02:25:39
Maybe I'm different but like if I break a law or. 02:25:40
Speed. 02:25:44
Isn't that part of public record? I mean, we're, we're, we break something. 02:25:45
I think there needs to be a public. 02:25:49
You know, when you're talking about neighborhoods and. 02:25:52
You, you know, you have. 02:25:55
If I looked over the numbers that Jacob sent me their. 02:25:57
Consistent, uh. 02:26:00
Would you say 30? 02:26:02
Houses that are the. 02:26:03
Crime offenders. Offenders. 02:26:05
And I think there needs to be. 02:26:07
An acknowledgment of how great a work you guys are doing of like. 02:26:09
We are finding them and also. 02:26:13
A public acknowledgement of they are not. 02:26:16
Found in compliance so that they know that. 02:26:18
We are doing it and if. 02:26:21
You're giving them. I don't think it's that from day one. 02:26:24
But I definitely think on day 30 that you don't come in compliance. There needs to be some sort of. 02:26:27
Public acknowledgement of a list of these are the homes. 02:26:34
That are not in compliance and realistically I've never gotten to like a 30 day mark. The most I've gotten honestly is like a six 02:26:38
day. 02:26:41
And then after that, and that's because the person was out of town and so they hadn't looked at their e-mail, but they didn't. But 02:26:45
but you're still what I'm saying is I'm saying like when. 02:26:49
I mean the person who does submit the. 02:26:54
The whoever does submit the concern they will get a message from me or a call OK or. 02:26:57
The system itself will tell them when the issue is resolved if I click resolved. 02:27:03
Like if it's just a weed problem and I don't need to necessarily send a message back and I click resolved, it'll e-mail them and 02:27:07
tell them that their issue has been resolved. So they do get some sort of acknowledgement to it on that end. 02:27:12
Whether and and to be fair, the people who are kind of. 02:27:18
Continuous actors in those homes. 02:27:22
I have very good relationships with a lot of those homeowners who submit those complaints all the time. They do know me very well, 02:27:24
right? 02:27:26
So we are typically inconsistent communication. I don't know if we could do something where it's publicly noticed. I think that 02:27:29
would be more of. 02:27:33
A legal a legal question on whether that would be something that can be done. 02:27:37
Of doing something publicly, it might be there might be legal stuff. 02:27:43
Legal questions. Jesse, is there any names of people who are? 02:27:47
Is there any public? 02:27:50
Report or. 02:27:52
Disclosure. 02:27:53
Could you look into that as we go down the steps, not I mean you're putting you on the spot there? 02:27:55
What could we do to help citizens understand that we are serious about that? 02:28:00
I'll look into that, it would be great if. 02:28:08
Somebody could. 02:28:11
Articulate the question in an e-mail. 02:28:13
So I know exactly what you're looking for. 02:28:15
I'll try. My only concern is that. 02:28:18
Go ahead. 02:28:20
I'm sorry. Go ahead. 02:28:22
I can try and articulate it. I think that. 02:28:23
With this. 02:28:25
Operation. You know the name of the. 02:28:26
Plan. Sorry, I don't have it. I think Operation Neighborhood Shield. 02:28:28
Oh, right now, yeah, I can do it. It's just. 02:28:33
What can we do with? 02:28:35
With disclosure of how many we have and reporting those, one idea is, is we could just do. 02:28:37
Monthly by neighborhood say in English I'm not we took down three over occupied. 02:28:42
Houses we don't have to say an address or an owner. 02:28:47
But you're saying, well, Shem, not we did this. It took I'm actually wanting the name and address of like these are the homes. I 02:28:49
think it's to the point where it's like. 02:28:53
You know, finds work. There's a lot of things that they don't. 02:28:58
Good and bad behavior. 02:29:01
What the owners don't, yeah, most of the people this I'm saying just the home state like. 02:29:03
Like. 02:29:08
Yeah. 02:29:09
You're right, Seattle State. 02:29:10
You remember. 02:29:12
After City Council meeting. 02:29:15
A month ago. 02:29:17
We had all of that. Oh. 02:29:19
When we shared, you know the map of. 02:29:20
The breakdown there was all this public outcry about. 02:29:23
How we were so heavy-handed and we were coming in here and we were going to just just destroy. 02:29:26
These landlords livelihoods and stuff. 02:29:31
Every single one of those comments was from somebody who's not a resident of the city, Yeah. 02:29:34
I know. And yeah, they were. 02:29:38
Yeah, but. 02:29:42
But disclosing that and being public about it? 02:29:43
And how the great work that Maria and the. 02:29:46
You know, I think is. 02:29:50
Is admirable to show. 02:29:51
That this is. 02:29:54
The great work that they're doing, you know. 02:29:55
Well, I agree with the idea of just releasing numbers. I mean, I've. 02:29:57
Been emailing you, Maria and Cash about numbers and the houses and stuff like that. And I, you know, post on social media. A lot 02:30:00
of people were happy about that. So doing something like that, being like, hey, we're looking into bridge, we're looking at this 02:30:04
area. 02:30:08
There's this many houses and. 02:30:13
This many houses we are able to issue fines or whatever. 02:30:15
So, yeah, and I think the another thing is. 02:30:18
My hesitance on that is just because even with like people complaining a lot of the time they want to be anonymous. They don't 02:30:22
want their neighbor to know you want it. You, you love your neighbor. Let's. 02:30:26
Most of the time, you're friends with your neighbor. 02:30:31
And a lot of the times people in these homes have lived in these homes before they've moved away, so they do know their neighbor. 02:30:34
And you never want to be the person to kind of. 02:30:40
And that relationship or kind of cause an issue and that's that's a big thing that I get all the time is just. 02:30:43
Hey I really like my neighbor but this is becoming an issue. 02:30:47
I don't want him to know that I'm doing this and I think. 02:30:51
Just kind of pushing that out there is going to kind of. 02:30:54
'Cause people to start looking and saying. 02:30:57
Well, you know who's reporting this? What's going on? 02:30:59
And I think that's what people are trying to avoid is to. 02:31:03
Call out their neighbors so that they. 02:31:06
Become aware of what's happening. 02:31:07
So when you find a home. 02:31:10
That you say comes into compliance. Are you saying that you're able to get them to move out within 5 or 6 days? You're saying no, 02:31:13
it's always going to be at least a minimum of 30. Realistically like. 02:31:18
There's not going to be often that they're going to come into compliance sometimes if someone's lease is ending in like 3 weeks. 02:31:24
That's probably the shortest just because they're not going to renew the lease. 02:31:30
Right. But for the most part it's going to be someone saying hey my. 02:31:33
My tenants lease ends in two months. Can I have two months to do it? And usually we'll work with that just because. 02:31:37
They're talking to us, they're working with us. 02:31:43
But if it's not, it's saying. 02:31:46
Hey, I have to give them at least a minimum of 30 days. That's usually what it's going to be realistically just. 02:31:47
Legally they have to give 30 days, so there's no. 02:31:53
There's not a way to make it shorter. 02:31:55
So when they do that and you fix it, are the repeat offenders just? 02:31:57
Going back and saying, oh, we kicked out the one person and they wait. 02:32:01
30 days and they. 02:32:04
Then rent it out to somebody. I do see that I also just. 02:32:05
There's, like I said, those homes that we just don't get evidence for. I don't receive evidence. So even though I might. 02:32:09
Be aware that they are. 02:32:14
Out of compliance I. 02:32:16
Don't doubt that they're out of compliance. 02:32:18
I just don't have anything. So when I go to them and say, hey, I've gotten concerns that you're out of compliance. 02:32:20
Their response is no, I only have four people in the home or I only have one family. 02:32:25
And there's just not a lot legally that can be done just because I can request a lease agreement. 02:32:30
And. 02:32:35
If they only send me one out of the seven that they have, I only get one. 02:32:36
I've had people who. 02:32:41
Will combine everybody in the household onto 1 lease agreement and. 02:32:43
Essentially, make them a family. 02:32:47
So that it. 02:32:49
Comes into a weird legal loophole. It's an interesting, it's an interesting thing what people will do to. 02:32:50
Not be compliant. 02:32:55
Can I ask? 02:32:59
You said the. 02:33:01
When if somebody violates again within a 12 month period, it's an automatic fine, does that find the same $100 a day or is that a 02:33:03
greater, more severe fine? 02:33:06
It's usually the same. I believe it has to be. 02:33:11
The same as the initial. 02:33:13
Notice. 02:33:15
It has to be. 02:33:16
The $100, if I do want to up it, I would have to do another notice with another warning period. 02:33:17
OK, I'd be curious to maybe looking at our code on that. 02:33:24
And that way if there is a repeat offender, it's just a really. 02:33:29
Quick, I like the idea. 02:33:32
Punish that that would that would be a Jesse Riddle attorney Jesse Riddle question yes, that's why I for sure do have people who 02:33:34
are repeat offenders and I did actually issue an additional notice. 02:33:39
With a higher fee. 02:33:45
To kind of push them to not. 02:33:47
Reoffend and that has helped. 02:33:49
But usually I will just send out another notice that says. 02:33:51
Hey, here's your two week period. 02:33:54
Because a lot of these even though it is a two week period. 02:33:56
And that was for like an Airbnb case. 02:33:59
But they're gonna, if they're gonna offend, they're gonna try to reoffend regardless. 02:34:02
So even that two week period doesn't get a. 02:34:06
Necessarily make or break. 02:34:08
The time frame. 02:34:10
So that is an option, at least on my end. I don't know if they're. 02:34:12
Is a legal way of just adding more fees after that? 02:34:15
I think I would just like to give the direction to Jesse to. 02:34:18
Investigate all legal options that are at the table or disposal to Maria. 02:34:22
And. 02:34:28
You know, going over the law and saying. 02:34:30
You know, things change, like you said, year to year. 02:34:32
And if there's more tools that we can get. 02:34:35
Her and then also. 02:34:37
I think looking at evidence. 02:34:39
Do we have? 02:34:43
Do we have a help you'll? 02:34:44
Helpful guide to citizens that. 02:34:46
What is or is not evidence that like a sheet? 02:34:48
To helping you gather because you say hey. 02:34:51
I don't have enough evidence. Is there something like on our website where we're like, this is the type of evidence that you need 02:34:54
to show me in a detailed way? 02:34:57
Currently there isn't. Usually if someone submits a concern I will reach out to them initially and say. 02:35:02
Hey, thank you for submitting the concern. 02:35:07
I need evidence. Do you have anything like this, this or this? 02:35:09
Right, OK. 02:35:13
I think we're all in agreement. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to speak for all council members, but just. 02:35:15
Making sure we have all the legal. 02:35:19
Power. 02:35:21
The Jesse researches it and gets it to Maria. 02:35:22
So there's. 02:35:24
A new look, not. 02:35:27
Yeah. 02:35:28
Cool. 02:35:30
Any other additions that people would like to comment on? 02:35:32
OK, last item. 02:35:37
3.7 I will say I actually haven't finished. Oh, keep going, Josh, you want to leave? No, keep going. Keep going. OK, keep going. 02:35:39
I mean, I'm sure that. 02:35:47
Was exciting but. 02:35:48
OK, All right, so. 02:35:51
Now I need to read. Hang on just a second. 02:35:54
While you you left off in phase three, you need to door knocking. 02:35:57
And so we'll begin enforcement on May 1st. This gives us a chance for people to move out. 02:36:01
And this will be after the school year. 02:36:08
So there should. 02:36:11
Be you know people that students that have leases. 02:36:12
Can decline. They'll know enforcement is coming. They can decline to renew their lease. 02:36:17
We also are going to. 02:36:23
Need to enhance our staffing? 02:36:27
So the suggestion is. 02:36:30
One full-time, 2 part time. 02:36:34
And Mr. Code enforcement or code enforcement, OK. 02:36:36
OK, Well some of that be divided up between the sheriff or is it just code enforcement on the City side? This is all code 02:36:39
enforcement on the city. So then a part time would be? 02:36:43
During the day than during the night. 02:36:48
No. So Orem has an individual that actually starts at some. 02:36:49
Chief Holden. 02:36:54
Made me aware that he they have an individual that starts at like 4:00 in the morning. 02:36:56
And then they have an individual that works into the evening. 02:37:00
OK. And so they just kind of alternate there see people coming and going, yes, so and that's great because. 02:37:03
You know most of the. 02:37:11
The parking infractions a lot of times. 02:37:12
Well, you know, people will work late or whatever we'll be able to. 02:37:16
It will provide for maximum enforcement. 02:37:21
Let's just say that. 02:37:23
So I ask about the rationale or the justification for a full time and two-part time. 02:37:25
I mean, what's the projected workload and the hours going to look like for that? Well, right now we only have part time. 02:37:30
OK, so. 02:37:35
Well, no, but we have half of your time. 02:37:38
Is with HOA right? 02:37:41
Very little. OK. So 10%, so we have a 90%. 02:37:42
So. 02:37:46
I can go. I can create a paper on what's going to be needed in terms of. 02:37:49
And create a rationale for that. 02:37:55
And spell it out very clearly. 02:37:58
I can kind of speak on that. So Even so I right now I'm full. 02:38:00
And so like I said, I do about 90% in code enforcement and about another 10% with HOA's. 02:38:05
I would say that that's probably something that. 02:38:11
The city is going to need. 02:38:13
Realistically. 02:38:15
A lot of the complaints I get are during times where I'm not in. 02:38:16
So I do get like. 02:38:20
About 30% of them are. 02:38:22
Cars that are parked after 5:00 PM or before I'm in so. 02:38:24
Realistically, I just can't do that. 02:38:28
All I would either be doing a ton of overtime or I would just be flexing my hours way too much. 02:38:30
And that's kind of the issue, and that's what a lot of other cities do for that reason, even when I've gone to my conferences. 02:38:37
For code enforcement, that's. 02:38:43
A lot of the feedback I've gotten is. 02:38:45
You know. 02:38:47
Doing one person is great for. 02:38:48
A small time while you're getting established. 02:38:50
But realistically, you're going to need more. 02:38:52
There's no way to just kind of have one person do. 02:38:54
Daytime, nighttime, weekends. But there even then there was a period where I was. 02:38:57
Considering. 02:39:01
Doing Saturdays but not coming in on Mondays just because there was a lot of complaints for a while coming in on Saturdays. 02:39:03
And so that's always something you're going to want to make sure you have enough staffing for. 02:39:09
OK. And and the. 02:39:12
We thought about doing 2 full. 02:39:14
But we thought two-part time would be better to cover more of the day. 02:39:17
Ended up would also be cheaper to the city. 02:39:21
OK, so it's. 02:39:23
You know, I mean if we go, if we, if we only have one. 02:39:26
One person managing the program that's going to. 02:39:30
It basically will kind of. 02:39:33
It'll kind of handcuff us a little bit. 02:39:36
To or it'll. 02:39:38
Slow us down. We won't be as immediate, immediate and. 02:39:41
Effective. 02:39:45
OK, I was told by the mayor and this was the the direction that we believe the City Council wanted to go with was well, I'll just 02:39:46
say mostly from the mayor shock and awe. 02:39:51
So. 02:39:56
When we when we implement this program, it really will be very. 02:39:58
It'll be a whole new level the city has never seen before in terms of enforcement. 02:40:04
OK, so I. 02:40:09
I mean, I've. 02:40:11
Been talking with Deputy Chief Holden and. 02:40:12
Basically, our options are limited in terms of. 02:40:16
Getting, you know. 02:40:21
Compelling compliance. 02:40:23
But uh. 02:40:25
It's a lot of what the fees and the warnings. 02:40:26
Our base, basically it's pressure. 02:40:30
That gets people to come into compliance and this is maximum pressure so that. 02:40:34
So I saw a city. 02:40:39
That had a sign and it was legit that after the 30 days. 02:40:41
They had, it was like a campaign site like 2 foot by two foot and they put it out in the strip and they were like. 02:40:45
This house is out of code. It's a code violation and they stamped it on their 30 days. 02:40:51
And on day one, they said. 02:40:56
They emailed and showed the picture of that campaign type of bright orange. 02:40:58
Out of compliance. 02:41:03
And I it was at the National League of Cities, so I was kind of learning and watching it. I wish I would have taken a picture of 02:41:05
the sign. 02:41:08
But they were like. 02:41:11
That public that. 02:41:12
Embarrassment. 02:41:14
Was like. 02:41:16
And everyone, everyone knows. 02:41:17
That the house anyway. 02:41:19
Everyone knows it's the nuanced house that's renting out to 8 people, right? 02:41:20
But that public? 02:41:24
Disclosure of. 02:41:25
Slapping that sign out in front. 02:41:26
Was enough for them to go look, I don't want to be. It wasn't the $100 and that's why I say like. 02:41:28
If you're given 30 days notice, maybe it's. 02:41:33
We put it into the policy that the second violation, so it's like. 02:41:36
Hey, we've done through this, but now it's this is a repeat offender that has come back out. 02:41:39
I just think that it's showing how great a work you're doing and our staff is doing is that we're serious and that this is a 02:41:44
repeat offended home. 02:41:48
And I mean, it's kind of like a foreclosure. You know, they're putting the signs out like this house is for being foreclosed on. 02:41:52
That's embarrassing that that happened, right? The bank had to come in and and put that out in front of their lawn of this is 02:41:57
being foreclosed. But. 02:42:01
I think that. 02:42:07
That public. 02:42:09
I think it's a normal thing. You're not. And if it said. 02:42:11
City violation out of compliance and it had the entire code that they could read onto it. 02:42:15
I don't think that's mean. 02:42:20
Maybe I'm out of order. 02:42:22
No, and I like even like I said, I put notices on the doors for. 02:42:24
The short term rentals, those are on like beyond Green Paper. So if that's something that you would like to do where I just put a 02:42:28
notice on. 02:42:31
Occupancy doors that you put it on our strip, the the city strip. So it's like. 02:42:35
This is here and it's. 02:42:39
Sorry, this is we're we're putting this out there in the city strip. 02:42:42
The We don't need to buy signs. 02:42:45
Why you have some? No, I'm saying let's not spend to do stuff like that. I'll donate. So we are planning on 11 by 17 inch. 02:42:49
Posters. 02:42:57
Like. 02:42:58
OK. For not out of compliance houses? 02:42:59
But basically a warning to be in compliance and if you're not in compliance, get into compliance by April 1st, so. 02:43:02
A very bold. 02:43:11
We're making a very bold statement with this program. So cool. Anyway, so. 02:43:13
The future staffing consideration, in fact. 02:43:17
On the document we actually have the rationale. 02:43:20
So if you want to, it's future staffing it basically. 02:43:23
Has a reasons why we want to go to 1 full time, two-part time. 02:43:27
If you guys want to cover, if any of you want, if you want to cover that, I'm happy to. 02:43:33
Cover that right now and then we request we need Council direction. 02:43:37
For authorization to recruit a full time, well, we already have Maria. 02:43:42
So we're going to go, We're going to go. 02:43:48
100. 02:43:50
One staff member 100% of their time. 02:43:52
For code enforcement and then. 02:43:55
We need. 02:43:57
Authorization to explore software options to improve tracking citations and fines. 02:43:57
And. 02:44:03
Direction in. 02:44:04
The way of our attorney and Chief Deputy Holden to review and determine updates and clarifications and I believe through this 02:44:06
discussion we've had that discussion. 02:44:11
No. 02:44:17
So with that being said, I guess we just need. 02:44:18
To also I left out the part of two new. 02:44:21
Part-time code enforcement officers. 02:44:25
So. 02:44:29
And with that, that concludes the presentation. 02:44:32
Thank you. 02:44:35
I'm real quick, I've got to jump off soon here. 02:44:36
So we're not going to be implementing any new parking overnight parking restrictions in these areas. So the only parking 02:44:40
enforcement would be the illegal parking like in intersections and stuff, so. 02:44:45
So we're going to be looking at all of that and making a presentation on what changes need to be. 02:44:50
What changes we need to code? 02:44:57
In order to provide maximum pressure. 02:44:59
But still also give. 02:45:01
Residence. 02:45:03
Adequate parking. 02:45:05
And. 02:45:06
The type of passes and we we want to make sure that residents that are. 02:45:08
In compliance that. 02:45:12
Are you know that are basically families living in these homes they feel. 02:45:14
They feel safe and welcome. 02:45:21
But at the same time. 02:45:22
If you're not. 02:45:24
Then you'll fill. 02:45:25
You'll fill it. 02:45:27
All right. I'll just share my final thoughts. Jump up. 02:45:30
Generally supportive. I think there are parts that are a little. 02:45:33
Well, heavy-handed that we can. 02:45:36
Work through. 02:45:37
As far as like what's actually on the paper? 02:45:39
I would love to see that. 02:45:42
Long term as as we. 02:45:44
Also implement those restrictions so we can. 02:45:46
Kind of attacking on both fronts. Get below any fruit first with the parking restrictions and then. 02:45:48
How this be our long term plan? So Jacob, thanks for your work on this. 02:45:53
Appreciate you guys. 02:45:56
Thank you. 02:45:57
Comments. 02:46:00
From the audience. 02:46:00
I could just call you all by name I mean. 02:46:02
OK. 02:46:07
The full time microphone right in this chair. Install it next week. 02:46:08
Come on up. 02:46:14
A suggestion. 02:46:18
Maybe putting? 02:46:21
A little announcement. 02:46:24
It's part of the. 02:46:25
City newsletter, either monthly or quarterly. 02:46:27
That so many code enforcement actions. 02:46:31
Have been instigated and are successful. 02:46:34
That would do a couple of things. Let people know that. 02:46:38
Yeah, the city is working to enforce the code. 02:46:42
This is a good thing. 02:46:45
Or wait, the city is going to enforce it. 02:46:47
Code successfully, so maybe I should? 02:46:50
Yeah. 02:46:54
Well, I just even the successful hey, we were able to remove. 02:46:56
You know, two or three and. 02:47:00
Highlight the good work. You know, because staff does. 02:47:02
This is hard. It's probably emotional, it's probably difficult. 02:47:05
You're probably going am I mean? 02:47:09
You have all these people that are. 02:47:11
You know, wanting you to do it. 02:47:13
And then you have that one person that's. 02:47:14
You know, angry and. 02:47:16
So we just. 02:47:18
Our heart goes out to you for oh you're. I love it. 02:47:19
That's honestly one of my favorite things is code enforcement. 02:47:23
OK love dealing with it but. 02:47:26
Yeah, I do do a yearly report. 02:47:28
An end of year report where I do put. 02:47:31
What kind of occupancy complaint, or any complaint in general? 02:47:33
What department took care of them? Because a lot of my job is also distributing it to other departments that can. 02:47:36
Take care of it. 02:47:42
Whether it's like a street light goes out and then I send it to Naseem's team. 02:47:43
To take care of it so I can do that on a. 02:47:47
On a monthly or like every. 02:47:50
Bimonthly basis on. 02:47:52
The newsletter. 02:47:54
I have a quick question SO. 02:47:55
How do you like our current way of reporting? Or would you prefer a stand alone reporting like? 02:47:58
Because I know right now we have reporter concern, there's lots of options on it and that makes it easier because the goal of 02:48:03
reported concern is to identify what departments are going to take care of it because if it is something like a street related. 02:48:10
Parking related where I won't handle that that is holding it makes it easier to just quickly see it. 02:48:17
When I log in and look at it and say look this is a parking issue. 02:48:22
I know who to send it to. A lot of it also is like for parks. If someone is complaining about one of the parks or says hey one of 02:48:25
the. 02:48:29
The toys are broken. It's easier to identify what park I'm looking for so I can send it to Brian's team. 02:48:33
Because if they just say, hey, the swings broken at a park. 02:48:40
It would take them more time to go and look for which swing versus if they say hey, the swings at Grove Park are broken. 02:48:44
I can send them directly there so it makes it a little bit easier. There for sure are different. 02:48:50
Softwares that can be used because like. 02:48:54
Of the amalgam. 02:48:56
Of complaints, would it be better to have a standalone form as well just for over occupancy so we can get that data without having 02:48:57
to? 02:49:01
Kind of select. It's not super hard because our current system will pull reports. For me, I just have to determine what. 02:49:05
Like kind of concern. 02:49:12
So if I just put occupancy concerns. 02:49:14
It'll pull all the occupancy ones that people have chosen. I usually will go to occupancy and parking because a lot of times 02:49:17
people who are. 02:49:20
Complaining about parking wool in their. 02:49:24
Own in that concern, say. 02:49:26
The parking is an issue but also because this house is over occupied. 02:49:28
But it does pull reports for me and it'll. 02:49:32
It'll put it into a spreadsheet which will have anything that I want if I want it to have all the information, name, address, 02:49:36
date. 02:49:39
It'll add everything. If I just want it to show me what the addresses are, it'll just pull that for me. So it's it's pretty 02:49:42
standard and it's pretty. 02:49:45
Easy to use. 02:49:49
I know I've talked to David Kyle about. 02:49:53
The idea of maybe doing like a survey or something, setting it out. 02:49:56
Being like, hey report. 02:50:00
I hate saying report your name about like. 02:50:02
You know, report the problematic houses because I feel like. 02:50:04
There's a lot of people who aren't reporting. No, there's for sure is I, I get that quite a bit in the calls. And even then I do 02:50:08
have Dorelli, our social media girl, send out. 02:50:13
Kind of frequent social media postings that say here's reported concern for this, this and this. We have added like. 02:50:18
If there are any parking concerns directed to the sheriff's or submitted concern, it makes it a little bit quicker if they call 02:50:25
the sheriff's directly through the non-emergency line. 02:50:29
Just because if they send it in over the weekend and I'm not in, that doesn't get taken care of till. 02:50:34
The following Monday. 02:50:39
But that is. 02:50:41
I do try to do kind of frequent campaigns in the summers I I do. 02:50:43
Typically a. 02:50:48
A newsletter for all of our summer events that I send out to the HOA S. 02:50:49
And apartments. 02:50:52
And asked them to distribute out and in those I do add like a QR code for reporter concerns so that they are aware as well. 02:50:54
All of our sign. 02:51:00
Are not signage our Flyers and. 02:51:02
Door hangers and different methods of communication will have a QR code. 02:51:05
Phone number. 02:51:10
Website. 02:51:11
All that good stuff. Yeah. And our our receptionists and at both buildings. 02:51:12
Are aware of it so. 02:51:18
If they. 02:51:20
They will either directly send that phone call if someone calls in to me, or they will just. 02:51:21
Refer them to reporting on reported concern as well. 02:51:25
Sweet awesome. 02:51:28
It's come up a couple times today now. 02:51:31
Earlier in public comments, Karen mentioned. 02:51:35
Wanting a crime report? 02:51:38
And a code enforcement report. And I think in terms of military and army stuff, because that's my background, it makes me think of 02:51:40
something called the status of discipline report. 02:51:45
And military units publish a status of discipline report at the start of every month, and it says all of the bad things soldiers 02:51:50
did and how they were punished. 02:51:54
So it'll say. 02:52:00
I mean, sometimes it's crazy stuff like. 02:52:02
Staff Sergeant got a DUI, was reduced to. 02:52:04
You know the rank of E 4 so no longer a noncommissioned officer and forfeits pay for 45 days with 45 days of extra duty type 02:52:08
stuff. 02:52:12
I'm curious, and it's not that I'm advocating for this necessarily, but it seems like there is. 02:52:18
An interest in something like that? 02:52:23
To be presented. It also creates, though in a more helpful sense. 02:52:27
A monthly data point. 02:52:31
For the City Council, but also for the residents to see and see how the trend is. 02:52:33
Being resolved, handled, taken care of. 02:52:40
I'm curious. 02:52:43
About maybe employee city feedback, resident feedback. 02:52:44
Is that something that would maybe be fun to just do for a month and then see how much outcry there is about it? 02:52:50
Now you might think fun is different than what I think is the software will keep track of. 02:52:58
I would assume we'll be keeping track of all that, so it'd just be a matter of. 02:53:04
How we communicate to public whether we printed growing up on city Facebook page or. 02:53:08
John Smith. 02:53:15
Put seven people in his house, yeah. 02:53:17
Or shaming him for a code violation. I don't know not to make a lie. 02:53:19
OK, well, it's just fun. 02:53:25
Any other comments on this? 02:53:27
Great. 02:53:30
Great. 02:53:31
David, did you have more? 02:53:32
Before I rudely cut you off and go to the next item, No, I'm good. 02:53:34
Very good. 02:53:37
OK, last item on the agenda today is 3.7 city commissions appointment process and volunteer recruitment. 02:53:39
Now I didn't know I was about to be the mayor Pro Tem so. 02:53:47
Was there anything specific that this needed to? 02:53:51
Be guided down? Is this my item? 02:53:54
So. 02:53:57
Well, this is an item that I put on the agenda. 02:53:58
Let me just quickly go over our current active commissions. 02:54:01
We have the Planning Commission. 02:54:06
The Active Transportation Commission. 02:54:08
The Arch Commission. 02:54:11
Development review committee committees that care Commission. 02:54:12
The library board. 02:54:16
The Youth Council and have. 02:54:17
And event review committee and I. 02:54:19
Do you want to make note of a few things? There is a library board and then there is also a library. 02:54:21
Nonprofit, which is not affiliated with the city but is a supportive organization of the library. 02:54:30
Correct. And then the. 02:54:36
Arch Commission. 02:54:38
Is. 02:54:40
The main duties of the Arts Commission is to make recommendations for the spending of the. 02:54:43
Care or arch? 02:54:49
Tax revenue. 02:54:51
And there is some suggestion. 02:54:53
For changes to the Arch Commission program that staff. 02:54:58
Are recommending including. 02:55:02
Um, making sure that. 02:55:06
Those that are on the committee. 02:55:08
Are not also affiliated with. 02:55:11
Other organizations that are receiving the funds. 02:55:15
Or there's some sort of disclosure? 02:55:18
There's also with the Arch Commission. 02:55:21
Just like with all the Commission's attendance is an issue and so. 02:55:24
Right now, the Arts Commission has 2. 02:55:29
Standby for. 02:55:32
And there is another word. What's the? 02:55:34
They're not standby alternate yes, alternate Commission members. The suggestion is to just. 02:55:36
They're either on the Commission or they're off the Commission. 02:55:43
So anyway, there are several staff has several suggestions for each one of these commissions. 02:55:47
But. 02:55:52
From the mayor's office. 02:55:55
We are. 02:55:56
We are interested in an Events Advisory Commission. 02:55:58
And. 02:56:02
Including. 02:56:03
That would include. 02:56:06
Advise advising on the city events and also helping to administer or. 02:56:08
Execute city events throughout the year. 02:56:17
And those. 02:56:20
Basically the examples could be the Provo Freedom Festival. 02:56:22
The Orum. 02:56:27
Summer Orem Fest Commission Each city has some. 02:56:28
Most cities have some sort of Commission that. 02:56:33
Orchestrate the events with the support of the city employees. 02:56:36
We also have the historic. 02:56:42
Preservation Advisory Committee. 02:56:44
That was an official. 02:56:48
City Committee. 02:56:49
Up until I think it was three years ago. 02:56:53
Brian, you want to correct me on that? 02:56:56
That's all right. 02:56:58
The so upped heritage, heritage, yes, the Heritage Commission. I thought the Heritage Commission, it was the heritage role. 02:56:59
What's that? 02:57:07
Arched it. 02:57:07
Yeah, so Arch took over, but. 02:57:09
The idea is to. 02:57:11
Re establish the Heritage Commission. 02:57:12
As recognize it again as an official city entity. 02:57:16
So we also. 02:57:22
What about the garden? 02:57:24
The Garden. 02:57:26
Is it an official? 02:57:26
Community you're talking about, the community garden is part is managed by the library. 02:57:28
Oh, OK. 02:57:34
So it isn't really. 02:57:36
I mean, you could. 02:57:38
But it would be great if we could make it resident run though. 02:57:39
I wouldn't object to that at all. We could make it part of events. These are. 02:57:43
It could even be, I don't know. There's several. 02:57:49
Possible. 02:57:53
Avenues for the gardens. 02:57:54
So this is a natural so. 02:57:57
I go to a lot of City Council meetings. I don't know if you guys know this for 20 years I go. 02:58:01
Throughout the country, in every state. 02:58:05
And cities grow. 02:58:07
And they shrink and they grow and. 02:58:09
You know, you'll have a skateboard committee and it'll be so huge, and then those kids grow up and then it. 02:58:11
It like will die. 02:58:17
And then people will like the garden. The garden was awesome for three or four years. Together were so many people. 02:58:18
Loved it and great. And then it grew out and they're all moved away and it's really shrunk down to something very tiny, you know? 02:58:24
Are you talking about the actual physical? 02:58:30
Garden or like the garden was huge. I mean there was a lot of people going to the garden when Amber was serving on the council and 02:58:33
so according to staff. 02:58:37
The the garden. 02:58:41
The Garden. 02:58:43
The gardens are. 02:58:44
There's a wait list of people wanting to use the garden, right? But I mean, I'm like the the board of the garden and like, you 02:58:46
know. 02:58:49
Organizing it, and I think there's a lot of desire to use it. Is there? A lot of people don't have a board. So that's what I'm 02:58:53
saying. Like, yeah, Amber was overseeing that as a city, right? Remember. 02:58:57
Right. And then we had like a resident. 02:59:02
Rep. That was doing that. 02:59:05
And then? 02:59:08
That basically dissolved that resident. 02:59:11
Back down and so it just fell onto staff, but it is a very popular, very popular. 02:59:13
Right program that the residents. 02:59:18
Yeah, wait list. I'm just saying for like the volunteer and the organization of it, like do you have a Commission or do you just 02:59:20
have a staff person? 02:59:24
Oversee it and it'll fluctuate from time to time. So the library overseas it, right? 02:59:28
Yeah, yeah. So now it's on. Now it's now it's so Valerie overseas now it's brought into the. 02:59:33
To the library, But does the library board oversee the garden decisions? 02:59:39
And vote on that. 02:59:45
I don't believe it's just. It's just the library employee that. 02:59:46
Overseas that right. 02:59:50
So yeah. 02:59:52
And so these are natural changes, you know, like whether they want help or not, I think like. 02:59:54
And my general idea is. 02:59:59
Does that group want us to decide their make their decisions for them? 03:00:02
Or do they want autonomy to make? 03:00:06
Their own decisions. 03:00:08
And do they just want money? 03:00:11
Like financial support from us? 03:00:12
You know, like. 03:00:14
Because. 03:00:16
There's just changes, you know, different things. 03:00:16
And. 03:00:20
I have always. 03:00:22
Seeing things. 03:00:24
The citizens that love different passion projects most of the times don't want. 03:00:26
The thumb of. 03:00:33
Telling them how to run their. 03:00:34
Organization, they just need financial. 03:00:36
Support. 03:00:39
And and know how. 03:00:40
And I think. 03:00:42
Like if like for the garden, it's like. 03:00:43
How to run the garden? Like why would they want any of us on the council to take the time and have official meeting minutes And so 03:00:46
I think there needs to be a review. 03:00:49
Of each group. 03:00:53
Of like. 03:00:55
Are you happy with your relationship with us currently? 03:00:56
Do you want to be more autonomous? 03:00:59
On where things are. 03:01:02
And then also. 03:01:04
So for like the active transportation slash planning where we. 03:01:05
Have a strong hard. 03:01:09
Time with. 03:01:11
Getting attendance at plan, the Planning Commission and you're running two separate. 03:01:12
I think naturally bringing those. 03:01:17
Together. 03:01:19
I also think with the. 03:01:22
I I'd like to hear on I know legally with that. 03:01:24
$20,000 coming in. We'd have to change our code. 03:01:28
If Arch was going to. 03:01:32
Dissolve. 03:01:34
Or because I know they've had. 03:01:35
Big struggles of even just having a. 03:01:37
Enough of a number to do that, right? 03:01:42
According to code we need to have. 03:01:44
An arch Commission, right? But the arch Commission can be. There's no, there's no way to. 03:01:46
Separate them from the city. 03:01:51
Because they're official that it's a. 03:01:53
It's a necessary. 03:01:55
It's a necessary. 03:01:57
Committee in order to appropriate the funds. 03:01:59
Right. But can't that just be like us where we're the RDA? OK, so now I'm curious about that actually question for you. 03:02:03
You said that there are necessary committee to appropriate the funds, but they don't actually get to appropriate the funds. They 03:02:11
get to make a recommendation on how to appropriate the funds and then the council appropriates the funds. 03:02:16
They're a middleman, I think. 03:02:21
I think the law, they just have to make a recommendation. 03:02:22
Right. Kind of like the Planning Commission has to make a recommendation before you vote. 03:02:25
Law. 03:02:31
Yeah, I. 03:02:35
I just know that they've struggled to even have. 03:02:37
Enough to make so this is it's part of what they don't the mayors initiative. Sorry, it's a recommendation. 03:02:39
Rejuvenate the volunteerism of the city. 03:02:44
We want to rejuvenate the and that is the reason why we're having the interfaith meeting on Thursday and that is the reason why 03:02:48
we're coming to the council. 03:02:52
To ask. 03:02:56
For basically councils nod, we're going. 03:02:57
The four reorganization of. 03:03:01
And change of. 03:03:04
Rules and. 03:03:06
And guidelines for committees. 03:03:07
And the potential of having new commissions. 03:03:10
To help with events. 03:03:14
And potentially educate residents on the workings of the city. 03:03:17
And that would be. 03:03:22
You know, public works and Transportation Advisory Commission, that sort of thing. So when you when you ask, you say. 03:03:23
Ask the Council for the nod. 03:03:30
What's the actual desired outcome and recommendations that you have? Is that that you want some of these committees? 03:03:32
Dissolved Do you want some Restructured Do you want? 03:03:39
Counsel, people assigned to those positions, all the above. OK, so we'll come back. 03:03:41
The mayor and I will and will work with staff to. 03:03:48
Basically, reorganize and. 03:03:52
And potentially create new. 03:03:56
Commissions dissolve. 03:03:58
Old ones that are either. 03:04:01
Potentially dissolve. 03:04:03
I don't see any dissolving. 03:04:06
Happening we've. 03:04:07
Pretty much need to just reorganize in terms of like. 03:04:10
The policies and procedures for each Commission. 03:04:14
And then? 03:04:17
At then potentially new ones. Well, I like the idea of creating a separate garden, maybe a garden advisory Commission, something 03:04:18
like that volunteer base I think is actually will be pretty popular. I know at least in my part of the. 03:04:24
City there's no garden access like we don't have out you know so a lot of people in these high density areas utilize these gardens 03:04:31
so. 03:04:35
Maybe create like a standalone garden advisory Commission? 03:04:39
That would be a great addition that these are just possible. 03:04:42
Yeah. 03:04:46
Commissions or advisory boards. 03:04:47
There just to give ideas of what. 03:04:50
Kind of has been. 03:04:52
Floated and to get your feedback so. 03:04:54
That would be great. 03:04:57
I think that. 03:05:00
On Thursday. 03:05:01
I'm hearing from a lot of groups. I haven't talked to the library but. 03:05:03
I I know everyone loves volunteers I haven't talked to. 03:05:08
Cares. 03:05:13
But. 03:05:15
The idea of the interfaith is to say, are there people that are willing to volunteer to help strengthen? 03:05:16
And I know heritage and I know some of them are like, we need volunteers, so. 03:05:23
The whole idea. 03:05:27
Was to bring all of these religious organizations to come in. 03:05:28
Get to know each other. I know many of them don't know each other. 03:05:33
Which is an awesome opportunity just in and of itself. 03:05:35
Find out what they as those organizations do strong. 03:05:40
Find out if there's a desire to serve. 03:05:44
I think the second meeting. 03:05:46
That we have follow up is to bring in cares and heritage and. 03:05:48
Library after we gather some information and say hey here's some people that are willing to serve to strengthen these 03:05:53
organizations and before that meeting saying. 03:05:57
Do you need volunteers? Are you wanting to sell yourself or? 03:06:01
Or an open. 03:06:05
Path to be able to do that. 03:06:06
And then I think. 03:06:08
I think that will will learn a lot. 03:06:09
And give you guys some give. 03:06:11
Staff some information of. 03:06:14
Do we have the ability to grow and. 03:06:16
And. 03:06:19
You know some of these organizations. 03:06:22
And you want to. 03:06:24
Talk with them. 03:06:25
Do they need the micromanagement of a council? 03:06:26
To have their own autonomy? Do they have a 501-C3? 03:06:29
And they're more of just. 03:06:33
On an annual basis, just needing the same financial commitment or even a little bit more. 03:06:35
Because it does take staff. 03:06:40
A long of effort to hold a public meeting. 03:06:41
To organize, you know, as if it's an official thing of our organization and we're. 03:06:45
Telling him. 03:06:49
Literally we could give them a tiny bit more money because the staffing to. 03:06:51
Put on the meeting minutes and. 03:06:55
The deciding of it and sometimes they go, oh wow, we have the ability to control our own destiny and just. 03:06:57
Once a year come and. 03:07:03
An Ask for a financial commitment. 03:07:05
It's a lot easier and I think a lot of organizations love that. 03:07:08
That autonomy. 03:07:13
And maybe we sit on their board, right? We, we. 03:07:14
We have somebody that attends like a staff member. 03:07:17
Is attending their meeting. But we're not like, controlling it, right? 03:07:20
I think this review is a good for everyone involved. 03:07:24
I do think on the. 03:07:28
On our boards where it's like the active transportation and planning. 03:07:31
I think they those need to merge. 03:07:35
But and then also. 03:07:39
I love the idea of recognizing heritage. I know so many people want to volunteer. 03:07:42
In that. 03:07:47
So yeah. 03:07:49
And I think there's a desire to. 03:07:50
Like what Provo and Orem has done. 03:07:53
To have an official event. 03:07:56
Non. 03:07:58
Like what Orem Fest has done is incredible what Provo has and so if we could have. 03:08:00
The beginnings of that come forward and tell the religious community. 03:08:05
I know in Provo. 03:08:11
That is put on. 03:08:14
On the shoulders of many religious groups coming together annually and same thing with the days of. 03:08:15
There are the 24. 03:08:20
The Salt Lake parade whether the 24 July 24th parade. 03:08:22
Days of 47 there you go. 03:08:28
And I think Vineyard. 03:08:30
I think Vineyard. 03:08:32
Days or Heritage days? 03:08:33
Could have. 03:08:35
A much stronger. 03:08:37
If we bring in all of our. 03:08:39
Partners. 03:08:42
To play a larger role. 03:08:42
So yeah, I support this effort. 03:08:44
I am of Lemmy. 03:08:48
Turn on my microphone. Sorry. 03:08:50
I am on the record and will be consistent that I am generally skeptical in the formation of new. 03:08:54
Commissions because there is a tendency for them to ask for more money and power over time. 03:08:59
So I would be. 03:09:04
Just very. 03:09:06
It's like scrutinizing. 03:09:08
In how we reorganize this. 03:09:10
And I don't want to create something that creates more work. 03:09:14
Unnecessarily right? 03:09:19
For example. 03:09:22
I maybe have a different opinion. 03:09:24
Of the community garden than both of y'all and I'm a big supporter of the community garden. I like what that does for the city. 03:09:26
However. 03:09:32
What is the actual workload associated with? 03:09:33
Managing the community garden. 03:09:36
It's like you've got to assign the plats in the spring, you know, things like that, and make sure that it's, you know, cared for, 03:09:38
maintained. 03:09:41
Does that actually require us to form a Commission? And if it does, what's the financial obligation to back that Commission 03:09:45
versus, you know, we have? 03:09:49
Parks and Rec maybe send somebody over there once a week to clean up. 03:09:52
Trash. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what that actually looks like. 03:09:56
But the. 03:09:59
Theory is. 03:10:00
Let's not create something that adds. 03:10:01
Additional work unnecessarily. 03:10:04
And let's also not fund something. 03:10:06
That doesn't need additional funding. Well, I actually think we're on the same language because as I spoke with many in the 03:10:08
gardens, they were like. 03:10:12
We want to do our own thing. We want separation. If you could just authorize us to do this. 03:10:16
And we're just staff sending it. I remember they, they, I would do it that way. But what they didn't like was. 03:10:21
The micromanagement of it. 03:10:26
And not having a Commission. So I'm actually. So let me ask about that though. What's the? 03:10:28
If they're saying, you know, they don't like that they're being micromanaged now and they want to do their own thing, what does 03:10:33
that actually mean? It makes it so because they're going to do the exact same thing that's happening now. 03:10:37
No, because right now it's being run by a city employee of the library, right? 03:10:42
Yeah, so. 03:10:46
It gets rid of the city employee. What's over some benefit? The benefit question, the benefit is, is that you a 501-C3 is set up, 03:10:48
so it's an independent organization and we can help them. 03:10:54
Foster that. 03:11:01
And then it's just them coming before there's no, so there's no Commission. It's just more of. 03:11:02
Hey, we're giving a report of what we're doing of, you know. 03:11:07
The of the garden on our public property, like this is the plan. So they're just reporting to us. It's a lot less work. So like it 03:11:09
used to be like the garden they would hold monthly meetings with. 03:11:15
Vineyard staff members and they would sit down and organize the whole thing, and the city was really putting a lot of. 03:11:22
Time and effort into that whole thing. And I think that's a relationship that you're concerned about. Same thing with mine of 03:11:29
like. 03:11:32
I don't think we really need to micromanage a lot of the decisions that some of these organizations do and. 03:11:36
You know. 03:11:43
We give them a. We write them a. 03:11:45
A smaller check or we write them the same exact check. 03:11:47
And they flourish better because they can make their own. 03:11:50
Decisions better and they and they can actually go out and gather as a 501-C3. 03:11:54
They can go out and get grants, they can go out and get funding and donations as opposed to. 03:12:00
A government run. 03:12:05
And I generally agree with that the the decentralization, the deregulation piece. 03:12:08
Yeah, my concern would be. 03:12:12
And I don't know off the top of my head what we actually fund as far as the City Gardens goes each year. Like what's the actual 03:12:16
budget allocated for somebody to manage that, those couple hours? Do you want to have some? Yeah, but you have some numbers. We 03:12:20
have some numbers. Then when we create that Commission and that Commission wants to come before the City Council and the 03:12:24
Commission says, hey, we want. 03:12:29
You know, $50,000 and we say each year and you can say hold on. We were we as a city administrating that. 03:12:33
We were spending $15,000 a year on the City Gardens. Why is your? 03:12:39
You know that's. 03:12:44
My concern is you create a Commission, the Commission wants. 03:12:44
Money. They want power. That's just what the Commission knows. So. 03:12:47
Some a lot of the. 03:12:51
Lot of what can be done is. 03:12:52
Not a Commission, but just an advisory group. 03:12:54
And they're just administrating it. 03:12:57
They're not, you know, receiving funding. 03:12:59
I am on the funding comes to 501-C3. I don't imagine every single group having their own 501-C3. There's a cost to that, right? 03:13:02
And the only. 03:13:11
The only organization that. 03:13:12
Should potentially have something is. 03:13:14
The events. 03:13:17
The event, the events and that could it could be. 03:13:20
501-C3. 03:13:24
That revolves around all things Vineyard in terms of. 03:13:26
Events. 03:13:31
Activities then then things like. 03:13:32
The gardens could fall underneath it and then. 03:13:36
It could be a shared 501-C3 with all of them and. 03:13:39
Then it would just need. 03:13:42
You know some help with accounting? 03:13:43
Brian, do you know how much she spent on the garden? 03:13:46
We don't have a budget item. 03:13:49
For that specifically. 03:13:50
We do have our parks team that will go and maintain that. 03:13:52
So we could probably put together. 03:13:55
A budget, I don't think we maybe just need to look at the hours spent, yeah. 03:13:58
And I think there's some money that comes out of the library fund. 03:14:02
That goes to it. I remember seeing it. 03:14:05
It wasn't a lot. 03:14:08
But there were some. There were some. 03:14:09
It would have to be pretty small. The library fund is pretty small. Yeah, it was just a few $100 if I remember right. 03:14:11
OK. 03:14:17
It's just always good to assess relationships of those that serve because they put a lot of time. 03:14:20
The library puts in a lot of time. 03:14:25
Vineyard Cares group leadership and it's like. 03:14:27
Are you happy with the current? Because we're all new, so. 03:14:30
What don't you like about it and what would you like improved? And do you like your own autonomy or do you want us to play a 03:14:33
larger role in that? 03:14:36
You know. 03:14:40
It's just we are doing a skate park. Does there need to be a skate park advisory group? 03:14:42
You know, or something that. 03:14:47
Puts together events to promote. 03:14:49
That coming out in the growth because I know a lot of parents are. 03:14:51
There's always going to be new things that pop up, right? Well, that would be the reason. Like for instance, if you had something 03:14:55
regarding the skate park, that's where you would do something like a recreation advisory. People that are interested in recreation 03:15:00
or whether that be together park or trails or. 03:15:05
I typically like the advisory concept more than I like the Commission concept. I would also just want to make sure that when we 03:15:11
look at this financially, I know some of the commissions have. 03:15:15
Like reimbursement or per diem? 03:15:20
I don't know what the proper term is they get. 03:15:22
Compensated for their time participating in. 03:15:24
Commission, I just would want to make sure that we're not. 03:15:26
Adding additional. 03:15:29
Budgetary constraint where we're already in deficit. 03:15:31
Right, if I can add one thing to the budget side of things as well. 03:15:35
Just it was mentioned, you know, these commissions can go and. 03:15:39
And get. 03:15:43
Fund, do fundraising efforts or. 03:15:44
Get sponsorships from businesses if they're nonprofit, correct? 03:15:47
Yes. 03:15:50
I guess either or. 03:15:52
I guess the one thing I. 03:15:53
I think it's good to keep in mind too, is right now as a city, we just go. 03:15:55
Just collectively as one to collect all of the sponsorships instead of having like individual groups go just so that. 03:16:02
Every group isn't going to the same business as multiple times a year ask for funds and then. 03:16:09
You know where we potentially losing. 03:16:14
A good relationship with them because we just keep asking for money. So that would just be one thing I would throw out there that 03:16:17
would probably want to. 03:16:20
Verify how we want to go about doing that. 03:16:24
This is a great point for money. 03:16:27
Some people might be more inclined to give donations to specific things as opposed to the city and mass. 03:16:29
A question or a thought maybe Evan, that you could look into for us? 03:16:36
I recently came across a concept as I was. 03:16:41
Looking at. 03:16:44
Supporting A nonprofit organization around teens and mental health. 03:16:45
And they're pursuing. 03:16:49
Essentially a. 03:16:52
Fund. 03:16:53
So instead of going and asking for annual donations. 03:16:54
They have people. 03:16:58
Pledge a certain amount of money. 03:17:00
That money goes into a fund. 03:17:02
And then they operate off of the. 03:17:05
Essentially the interest generated. 03:17:09
Or they split. 03:17:11
A portion of the interest so. 03:17:12
You know, say I pledge $1,000,000 to the fund. I put $1,000,000 in that. 03:17:14
Generates 5% a year. 03:17:18
You know, 2 1/2 percent goes to me, 2 1/2 percent goes to the city. 03:17:20
Are those things that we could? 03:17:23
You know, maybe look at changing how we actually fundraise or structure the. 03:17:25
I mean, I don't know the legalities around. 03:17:30
A process like that, I just thought it was an interesting idea, and now that we're talking about nonprofits. 03:17:32
I'm curious because something like that could overtime. 03:17:37
Actually salvage a lot of those relationships. You're not asking for people for money consistently then. 03:17:41
You're trying to fundraise a massive amount of money. 03:17:46
Over the course of maybe the next. 03:17:49
Three years. Five years. 03:17:50
And then that. 03:17:52
Funds the city into perpetuity. 03:17:53
Or funds those nonprofits or those events. 03:17:57
So essentially kind of they each get a cut of that. 03:17:59
Big pot. 03:18:02
Yeah, you could do it like that or you could just. 03:18:04
I mean. 03:18:06
That's yeah. 03:18:06
Curiosity piece here. 03:18:08
Well, I don't know. I'd have to look into it from a city perspective. But would would he? Would we? 03:18:11
Potentially have. 03:18:17
Large endowments like this with several million in it for. So I don't think that that's necessarily realistic immediately, but I'm 03:18:18
saying you could collect and fund that overtime. 03:18:24
Maybe some people would have large endowments. Yeah, to see. 03:18:31
What restrictions we would have? Like just maybe, just maybe. 03:18:34
And I'm just throwing this out there, I have absolutely no knowledge of this whatsoever. 03:18:38
But you know we. 03:18:43
Apply a little bit of pressure maybe in and Megaplex says you know what, I will just donate. 03:18:44
$500,000 to you right now if you stop asking me for a donation every year. 03:18:49
There's some potential there. 03:18:57
And I know what you mean with with the nonprofit. The nonprofit that I worked with had an endowment and and that was separate and 03:18:59
things were very restricted in how we could spend those. 03:19:04
I'm not sure about the legalities of it from my. 03:19:08
Government aspect, OK. 03:19:11
It would probably have to be a operated under the 501-C3. 03:19:15
Because governments, your investments, as you've seen. 03:19:20
Correct. And I understand it would have to be under the nonprofit umbrella. 03:19:24
That's kind of my. 03:19:28
Curiosity was that if we're already fundraising under a nonprofit umbrella like that, I'm just curious if there's a benefit to 03:19:29
looking into nonprofit, then it's not a, it's a separate entity not associated with the city. So you basically have all the 03:19:34
options that are available to you, OK. 03:19:39
Yeah, but then once again, if the city fundraisers for it, it's not under the city councils control. It's under. 03:19:44
The direction of the board of the nonprofit. 03:19:51
So correct and but. 03:19:55
But there's there's beauty in that though, because like. 03:19:57
I mean, I know that scares a lot of people, but look at the legacy of. 03:20:01
Provo Freedom Festival. 03:20:08
It's not connected to one mayor. It's not connected to one City Council. 03:20:10
It lives and breathes and thousands of volunteers that have brought that to fruition. 03:20:14
From a personal standpoint, my grandfather is the founder of Orem, Sarah Shell. 03:20:20
He donated that land. 03:20:24
He raised the money for that land. 03:20:26
He was very key in saying making sure that. 03:20:29
A nonprofit was set up apart from Orem City. 03:20:32
An Orem city, time and time again, is kind of. 03:20:36
Hey can I take this over? Can I adjust this for the arts? 03:20:39
And you know, could we use this for something else? 03:20:43
And uh. 03:20:45
And when you? 03:20:46
When you allow for. 03:20:48
Volunteerism and to or. 03:20:50
Forum Sarah Shell has created. 03:20:53
So many. 03:20:55
You know, for the arts over time, it's just such an incredible unique. 03:20:57
And vibrant, you know? 03:21:02
Thing and I think vineyard. 03:21:04
Creating an event thing like a space like that where it's a nonprofit where people come in and and volunteer and. 03:21:08
And it grows into something big. 03:21:16
It separating it from. 03:21:18
And elected officials very wise. 03:21:21
It's it's very and it creates stability year over year and traditions. 03:21:23
So I would hope when we meet with these. 03:21:28
Interfaith groups and volunteers that we could. 03:21:31
In spite. 03:21:34
Will it be owned and controlled by the city? No. But that's what's so beauty, so beautiful about it, is that. 03:21:36
Creates its own unique. 03:21:41
You know, entity of the citizen. 03:21:44
Of what they want to see year over year. And that doesn't mean it doesn't change. It changes a lot. 03:21:46
I have a thought for you or a question. 03:21:51
Again, this is a little bit of devil's advocate, so don't take this as you know. 03:21:54
Councilman Mccumbers, you know. 03:21:58
Fighting this fight necessarily, but I. 03:22:01
I'm just brainstorm thinking through this. 03:22:03
I assume. 03:22:06
That you guys. 03:22:08
Get a large quantity. 03:22:09
Of. 03:22:11
Angry resident emails. 03:22:12
I assume that because I get a large quantity I did emails. 03:22:14
Now, a lot of those. 03:22:17
Angry resident emails. 03:22:20
Are, quite frankly about things that are just totally outside of our control. 03:22:22
Or are about things that. 03:22:26
Require maybe intercity. 03:22:29
Agreements or things that. 03:22:31
We're actively actioning, working on, but there's just not necessarily understanding about. 03:22:35
If we go down the direction of creating commissions. 03:22:42
And we cede that power. 03:22:46
For them to operate kind of autonomously in that regard. 03:22:49
What safeguard? 03:22:53
Do we have in place to protect? 03:22:55
The city. 03:22:57
And the residents, if they go and do something, that's just. 03:22:58
Egregious, or that the city doesn't actually support or like. 03:23:01
Well, now you're wanting to be on both sides because I told you I'm playing devil's advocate. I know what are the things that we 03:23:04
should think out right or we make decisions. 03:23:08
But in your first conversation, you came and said I don't want to pay, I don't want to pay, I don't want to pay. 03:23:13
So because you don't want to pay? 03:23:18
If you don't want to pay. 03:23:20
Then you don't get control. 03:23:22
Right. So like if you want to pay for commissions and we want to fund all of this. 03:23:23
Then the Council can retain that power, but we're paying for it. 03:23:28
So you're right. 03:23:31
There's there's a side and that's so if you want to pay. 03:23:32
Like you said, you don't. 03:23:36
So you're right. 03:23:38
By not by just writing a check and not having the staffing and the Commission of all that time. 03:23:39
You are. 03:23:44
Ceding power to allow. 03:23:45
The event organization or the. 03:23:49
Garden or the library, however. 03:23:52
To have that autonomy. So yeah, it's a trade off. 03:23:54
However. 03:23:58
I feel it's a more beautiful thing when it is. 03:23:59
Volunteering. 03:24:03
And out of the heart of that individual, because it really does flourish into a big beautiful. 03:24:05
Thing if they have that. 03:24:09
Desire to well, I definitely prefer more advisory than an actual. I definitely prefer advisory. Yeah. I don't think I would create 03:24:11
anymore commissions. In fact, I would go to the commissions and say. 03:24:17
Can we trade? Can we change this to an advisory? 03:24:23
And can we? 03:24:27
Be more of a what is the consistent financial setup that we have now? 03:24:28
Can we just commit to that translation Commission? I would make that advisory. 03:24:33
Yeah, I would make the ACT, but like you guys can keep going and we'll. 03:24:37
Will host even advisory to the Planning Commission type thing right? An advisory to the Planning Commission so. 03:24:40
You know, we met with a really great individual last night, Tyler, that is over strong towns and he. 03:24:46
Had some incredible ideas and I was like you should be. 03:24:51
An advisory role to the planning or to the Council, because you have some fantastic ideas on how to make things stronger. 03:24:55
So yeah, that's where I would want to go is. 03:25:01
Push them that way, but then. 03:25:04
Support them in. 03:25:07
In their endeavor, like for example the library. 03:25:09
You know, supporting them with the arch ongoing. OK, hey. 03:25:14
That doesn't change anything, it just means. 03:25:17
And maybe the library likes our ideas and they like us having their thumb and telling them what to do. 03:25:20
But chances are, they probably never thought. 03:25:25
You know what we don't really like? What? 03:25:29
He's elected officials that we would love to have our own. 03:25:30
Autonomy and we just want to be in the building still OK or we still want. 03:25:33
X That's just a better separation of. 03:25:38
Of authority because. 03:25:42
What do cities run good? 03:25:43
We run, Sheriff Good, we run. 03:25:45
Fire good, we won. Roads good. Engineering and planning. 03:25:47
But core things. 03:25:51
You know, all cities across America are so unique in allowing those volunteers to. 03:25:53
Flourish. You need to, you need to support them financially. 03:25:59
You need to support them with. 03:26:04
Social media. 03:26:05
Advertising. 03:26:07
Use of facilities. 03:26:08
Building of facilities. 03:26:10
But allowing those leaders. 03:26:13
To control or like not control but just. 03:26:14
Because volunteers like making decisions. 03:26:18
They don't like to be micromanaged. 03:26:21
In my opinion. 03:26:23
Any comments? 03:26:27
The library has a 501-C3. 03:26:29
Yes, the friends have been your library. 03:26:31
Yeah. So they're kind of in bulk, right? 03:26:33
So they have a 501-C3, but then they also have a board. 03:26:35
But there's a library board. 03:26:38
And the library board operates under the city. 03:26:39
Right. And the Friends of Vineyard Library. 03:26:41
Operates autonomously. 03:26:44
Right, they've asked for. 03:26:46
Council participation. I'm participating with them. 03:26:47
Right, it's like a. 03:26:50
Advisory role. 03:26:52
Right, so do they like both? 03:26:53
Is there a reason for both? We hold public meetings. Yeah. The the reason is that. 03:26:55
The library is interested in growing. 03:27:00
And the library cannot fundraise. 03:27:02
Under the city. 03:27:04
So they have a nonprofit that's a separate board and entity to fundraise for them. 03:27:06
OK, well do they like the other entity the? 03:27:12
The official I think you have to have a library board. I could be wrong I think, but David is the practitioner library. You need 03:27:15
to have a board, correct? 03:27:19
OK, so because we. 03:27:24
Have library status. 03:27:26
Were required to have a board and then to seek grants and things like that, you have to have the board. 03:27:28
OK, well one thing I'd like to add. 03:27:33
So for cultural arts advisory, what would that entail? The cultural arts? 03:27:36
That is, I mean, whatever your imagination can come up with with arts, that's, well, one thing I would. 03:27:41
These are examples that other cities, yeah. 03:27:47
Have as advisories or commissions. 03:27:50
So I'd like to see a conservation. 03:27:53
Conservation would be something that you know. 03:27:55
I don't know, Brian. 03:27:58
So who was in charge of you know, there's lots of plaques by the. 03:28:00
The lake I know you viewed that you know what department are. 03:28:03
Or who? 03:28:07
Because I know it's kind of in disarray right now. 03:28:08
I don't know what. So a lot of those, a lot of those are UVU Lake Authority and and Heritage. They're different. It's different 03:28:11
things throughout the years, people kind of added. 03:28:17
Eclectic group, so sometimes it's been the city, sometimes it hasn't. 03:28:22
But I agree with you. 03:28:26
I think. 03:28:28
You know, cities grow and shift and change. I definitely think there's a desire to have a. 03:28:29
Lake Open space. Wildlife Wetlands group. 03:28:35
And could probably take part in Earth Days and clean up and. 03:28:41
And that type of stuff, I don't think it needs to be a Commission. 03:28:45
But I do think there could be like an advisor, not like an advisory group. 03:28:48
But also just kind of a social group. 03:28:53
Like this is the whatever you call it group and they're getting together to. 03:28:55
Talk about different things. Cleaning up the lake stuff, yeah, it'd be awesome to have a just because of Indian has unique 03:28:59
wildlife. We've got eagles, we got foxes. Yeah. 03:29:03
You know, fishing and stuff. So having a. 03:29:08
Committee that focuses on preserving and promoting it, and I'm sure there's lots of grants available for stuff like that as well. 03:29:10
So that's just. 03:29:16
One of the things I would advocate for adding. 03:29:18
This is why it was put on the agenda. 03:29:20
So anyway, it's good ideas. 03:29:22
But. 03:29:25
Please, just while she's walking up really quick, Naseem found. In the budget we had. 03:29:31
$1200 in the budget for the community garden. 03:29:35
In the non department budget. 03:29:38
1200. 03:29:40
It's pretty cheap. 03:29:41
Jane Pierzkowski. 03:29:44
Area umm. 03:29:46
So the one thing with the library board though. 03:29:46
We we follow underneath a Utah. 03:29:49
And there's a lot. There's a whole stipulation of all the. 03:29:52
Rules and regulations that we need to to follow. 03:29:56
So it's not like some of these. 03:29:58
Things that you're talking about, which isn't under certain state regulations. 03:30:00
We are. 03:30:05
So that's important. That's a distinction between. 03:30:07
Some of these things that you're talking, you are what? Make that clear. You're a state. 03:30:09
No state, sorry. What's she saying? You said the Vineyard Library board? 03:30:13
Operates under state regulation. Oh, right, yeah. 03:30:18
So that's very different from some of these other boards that you're talking about the gardening and. 03:30:22
And the like. 03:30:26
I want to make sure that they're. 03:30:27
It's understand there's a distinction. 03:30:29
A distinction between. 03:30:31
These these groups and what the library board is. 03:30:32
Right. Yeah, I remember in October where we had to vote. 03:30:36
Because the way in which we picked the director wasn't up to state code and the legally legalities of that had to. 03:30:41
To be authorized, we had to make those changes. So I remember that, yeah. 03:30:48
And we corrected that. 03:30:53
Thank you, Jane. 03:30:56
I liked that distinction. It was something about how. 03:30:59
The independence of the library is required from the city if I remember it right. 03:31:03
It's a good law. 03:31:08
I agreed with the. 03:31:09
Yeah. Come on, David. 03:31:12
Yep, yes. 03:31:14
Jeff, David Pierce, Cascade. 03:31:22
Just to clarify. 03:31:25
Something I think this may be helpful. 03:31:26
There's a difference between an advisory. 03:31:30
Board or Commission? 03:31:33
And a Commission or a board. 03:31:36
That has as part of its responsibility. 03:31:38
To advise the City Council or the county Commission. However the the governmental structure there. 03:31:42
Structure is. 03:31:49
But you have some. 03:31:50
Boards and commissions. 03:31:53
That have set functions that they do. 03:31:54
But. 03:31:58
Also. 03:31:59
In addition to that. 03:32:00
Provide advice to the executives. 03:32:01
So that's different than having. 03:32:06
A board Commission. 03:32:09
That just says. 03:32:10
This is our idea. 03:32:12
What do you think? 03:32:14
So I've just asked that you keep that distinction in mind. 03:32:15
Yeah. Thank you, David. 03:32:19
And that's. 03:32:21
For I guess. 03:32:22
I would say David, Kyle and maybe our legal counsel, Mr. Riddle. 03:32:25
When we. 03:32:30
Put this on the the agenda to actually look at and and. 03:32:32
Maybe take an action on that we're. 03:32:35
Were very distinct in what we're asking for each of these different boards or commissions with their roles and responsibilities to 03:32:37
be and how that aligns with our city and state code. 03:32:42
Other comments, questions, concerns. So to put a button on this, David, you're going to. 03:32:50
Reevaluate, meet with all of them, gather feedback, reconstitute them, and. 03:32:54
Come back with some. 03:32:59
What they're saying and what they're thinking and and. 03:33:01
Kind of give. 03:33:03
A new reorg, too. We're going to give a proposal this proposal for about. 03:33:04
OK, so. 03:33:10
And you said it earlier, but the timeline to put that on the agenda is the end of the month. 03:33:11
Or was that just the timeline to reassess those and then we will have the an event? 03:33:16
Bored of some kind? 03:33:22
Ready for Council consideration in the next? 03:33:24
By the next. 03:33:27
Possibly next week. 03:33:29
OK. But the rest of it will have to come in time as we. 03:33:31
Continue evaluation. 03:33:34
Priorities Some of the. 03:33:37
Some of the roles and responsibilities from staff have been. 03:33:40
That we're hoping. 03:33:45
To pass them down like. 03:33:46
For instance, the gardens. 03:33:48
So. 03:33:50
But we will have that all delineated. 03:33:51
And. 03:33:53
What kind of financial, if any, financial expectation besides perhaps use of a building for a meeting? 03:33:55
Might be necessary. 03:34:02
So just to close this for Thursdays interfaith meeting. 03:34:03
I think I, I think it's a family on the wall. 03:34:09
Holden, if you could be there, it'd be great just to listen. 03:34:11
Not to. 03:34:15
Participate in the meeting at all, but just like. 03:34:16
Learning and gathering and getting to know the leaders and I would even advise. 03:34:18
Letting the library border and also cares. 03:34:23
Just listening in to like. 03:34:26
Hey, we're wanting to volunteer here. We're open to this and getting to know the different faith leaders that show up. Maybe 03:34:28
nobody shows up, but. 03:34:32
I think welcoming amendment into the community. 03:34:36
And seeing if there's ways in which we could work better with them, Are they with us? Is is critical so we can just get to know 03:34:39
each other a little bit better? 03:34:43
From that meeting we'll learn. But. 03:34:48
They might, I think. 03:34:50
For CARES, you might say, oh, there's people here that are really willing to serve and could play a role in strengthening the 03:34:51
organization, you know? 03:34:55
So OK, that's all I have. 03:34:59
You pass me that gavel. 03:35:04
Yeah, so much power and authority. 03:35:06
So much authority. Do I need to say anything special here? 03:35:09
Just that you're adjourning the meeting. 03:35:13
It is. 03:35:15
3:20 PM Tuesday, March 17th. 03:35:16
And I. 03:35:20
Councilman Parker Mccumber, serving as mayor Pro Tem, adjourned this meeting. 03:35:21

Transcript

Event transcript
OK, let me make sure I'm getting good audio. OK, we are good to go. 00:17:04
So it is. 00:17:08
March 17th, 2026 at 12:02. I'm going to go ahead and get our meeting started. As you can see, Mayor Stratton is not. 00:17:10
With us today. So first order of business is I'm going to need to have a nomination for a mayor Pro Tem. 00:17:19
I nominate. 00:17:29
Park on the Cumber. Councilman Mccumber to be the Mayor Pro Tem. 00:17:30
Outstanding. Do I have a second? I'll second that. 00:17:34
Great. OK. 00:17:37
Let me go ahead and we will do that by a roll call. So I will start with you, Councilmember Mccumber. Aye. 00:17:38
Aye, aye. 00:17:44
And then I believe we have Councilmember nares on remote can I have? 00:17:46
Your vote for that? See please. 00:17:51
Excellent. OK, Well, then I will turn that over to you, Mayor Pro Tem Mccumber. 00:17:54
And the meeting is yours. 00:17:58
Since you started it, I don't have to read any of that starting stuff, right? You sure don't. 00:18:01
Welcome everybody. We're going to start our meeting today with public comments. We'll go ahead and give. 00:18:06
3 minutes per comment for anyone that would like to make one. 00:18:10
Oh, David, thanks for looking out. You know this is my first time. Forgive me. 00:18:14
I didn't know I was going to be the mayor Pro Tem, so I didn't bring anybody special to start this. 00:18:21
Oh no, well, I don't work. We don't have a pins for prayer candidate today. 00:18:25
Jake. 00:18:31
If you weren't at our last meeting, we've designated that. That's Jacob and this is Jake. 00:18:34
Would you? 00:18:39
Offer prayer and lead us in the Pledge Allegiance. 00:18:40
Sure. Thanks. 00:18:43
Dear Emily Fowler. 00:18:50
Blessed that we may have a. 00:18:52
Good City Council meeting that we may get the people's work done. 00:18:54
Bless David Larae as he recovers from his. 00:18:57
His surgery and bless. 00:19:00
Him that he may recover and. 00:19:03
And. 00:19:06
Be back in time. 00:19:08
Thank you. 00:19:11
For getting us the opportunity today to talk about these important matters and. 00:19:13
Say these scenes named Discarding Men. 00:19:17
Layman. 00:19:19
I pledge allegiance to. 00:19:26
To the flag of the United States of America. 00:19:28
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:19:31
One Nation. 00:19:34
Indivisible with liberty. 00:19:36
And if you want a pin, you can have one. That's a mayor's initiative. 00:19:41
At a US flag pin. 00:19:45
Get a pin for saying a prayer. 00:19:47
Yeah, we'll try. I don't know. He asked for a toss. OK. 00:19:54
Goat stars. 00:19:58
OK, starting on the agenda today, we'll start with public comment. Like I said before, we'll give 3 minutes per comment. Is there 00:20:03
anybody? 00:20:07
Here that would like to make a public comment. 00:20:11
Karen. 00:20:15
Let's see. 00:20:17
Karen Cornelius, Phyllis Resident If I have three comments doing it 9 minutes, you get 1 three minute period. 00:20:31
And your times already started. This is eating it up. 00:20:37
First of all. 00:20:40
I'm curious. 00:20:41
If there is anywhere. 00:20:43
No, I want to start again. 00:20:45
Thank you to the city for painting. 00:20:47
The curbs. 00:20:50
At the entrance to. 00:20:51
The villas, we were having people parking there at the entrance and making it very difficult to turn in. 00:20:53
And we had requested the red curbing and I think Jacob got that done for us and. 00:20:59
We are happy. 00:21:05
So thank you very much. 00:21:06
Oh, I'm now hearing me. 00:21:10
OK. Second, I'm curious, is there anywhere as citizens? 00:21:12
We can go. 00:21:16
On the Internet, a report from the city, anything that we can be aware. 00:21:17
Of the crime that's going on in our city. 00:21:22
Without a local newspaper. 00:21:24
We really don't have access to. 00:21:27
And we see things. 00:21:29
Happening around us. 00:21:31
But we never know what they mean. So is there anywhere we can find that out? 00:21:33
That's a great question, I was asking the same. 00:21:38
Sheriff here you want to answer that and. 00:21:41
So we we produce a quarterly report that shows all of the calls and types of crimes and. 00:21:47
Provide that to the city and that could be uploaded. I mean if you. 00:21:52
Are you talking like specific crimes? Yep. 00:21:54
I guess you saw a call by your house and we want to know. Well, we all saw the big deal that went down a couple weeks ago over. 00:21:57
Utah City on just the other side of 800 with several cop cars and. 00:22:04
The dogs and a. 00:22:09
Camper out there and. 00:22:11
I mean, it raises our curiosity. We want to know. 00:22:12
What's happening? 00:22:15
And then several ICE cars down at the end of Geneva and. 00:22:17
800. 00:22:21
So just a lot of curiosity and. 00:22:22
I'm used to having a newspaper. I'm used to having a means to find that out, whether it's an online paper. 00:22:25
So I would just like. 00:22:31
To see that we could be provided with something more than quarterly. 00:22:32
I think lots of my neighbors have asked. Do you have any idea? No. 00:22:36
We don't have any idea. 00:22:39
My second comment is. 00:22:41
We need to change this meeting time. 00:22:44
I have heard that a lot from. 00:22:46
Neighbors and citizens too. And I see that we don't. 00:22:49
Necessarily get the greatest attendance. 00:22:52
And today, apparently, there's many very important things on the agenda. 00:22:55
And I just don't think that this is. 00:23:00
Working. 00:23:02
For Vineyard. 00:23:03
And the other thing I want to say is. 00:23:05
Many of us worked very hard. 00:23:08
On an election. 00:23:10
That took place almost all of last year. 00:23:11
Is that my 3 minutes already? 00:23:14
OK. It took almost all year and we. 00:23:16
This election. 00:23:21
It was a mandate. 00:23:25
The citizens want change. 00:23:26
And I know that we've got a lot going on. 00:23:29
And that we have had a lot of change. 00:23:32
But I think it's important. 00:23:34
That as a council. 00:23:37
Perhaps we need to do a little bit more. 00:23:40
Multitasking. 00:23:43
Because people. 00:23:44
I get embarrassed when people ask me what's going on. 00:23:46
And I have to say, well, that's been moved to the next meeting or that's been moved to the next meeting. So I'm just sharing. 00:23:49
Some feelings and some concerns. 00:23:56
They wanted you, they love you. This. 00:23:58
You are who they elected. We have one that's appointed and that's a different thing, but you are who they elected. 00:24:01
And we are here to support you. 00:24:07
And we would like to see things moving and anything we can do as a city to help get those things moving, we're well, we are 00:24:09
willing to do. 00:24:12
Thank you. 00:24:16
Thank you, Karen. 00:24:17
Any other public comments? 00:24:24
OK, Going once, going twice. Sold. 00:24:30
We will start the work session today with discussion on the public safety. 00:24:35
Impact fee study update. 00:24:41
Is there a member of the staff that? 00:24:43
Is kind of taking the point on that. 00:24:45
Yeah, I've been working. Just as a refresher, I've been working with Rachel Stevens, our planner on this project. 00:24:47
Last Tuesday, I did send out to the council the draft public safety master plan. I don't know if any of you have the opportunity 00:24:53
to review that yet, but essentially we're going to. 00:24:57
Next week, ask for adoption of that or. 00:25:02
Maybe some changes on it? 00:25:05
And then from there asked to receive. 00:25:07
Confirmation that we can go into a contract with Zion Public Finance to do the study. 00:25:11
The finance the impact fee study based off of the. 00:25:15
Master Plan. 00:25:17
Do you have any questions? 00:25:19
Did. 00:25:21
Chief Sanderson or Mark have any issues? 00:25:22
Were you able to think with him? It's been phenomenal partners in in developing this. So the the plan goes over many different 00:25:26
areas. We worked very closely with holding his team. 00:25:30
For for police, we worked with Chief Anderson, the Orem Fire Department on their portion. 00:25:34
Goes very much into detail on kind of what the future facility needs. We will. 00:25:39
Have for the city. 00:25:44
And we talked very closely with ORM about how they're able to provide those services for us as we continue to expand. 00:25:45
I think that might be something to pay very close attention to. It essentially calls out. 00:25:52
With our population growth, what we're expecting the facility needs for public safety to be and that's going to be where you know 00:25:56
we start to see that we need some some funding for that that growth and that's where this impact fee would come into play. 00:26:01
My concern is that we haven't had it for so many years and there's already been building into Utah City and the type of building 00:26:09
that is into Utah City. 00:26:13
As I've gone and met with Lehigh. 00:26:18
Riverton where there's a track station, the crime tends to be higher right off of those. 00:26:20
And I just want to make sure that the sheriff and. 00:26:26
Police are taking that into consideration. 00:26:29
The height of the buildings, the proximities of how close they are to each other. 00:26:32
We're designing something that's never been done for the. 00:26:37
In all of Vineyard. 00:26:40
And. 00:26:42
The. 00:26:45
The developer needs to shoulder those different specific design costs if he's going that. 00:26:46
That type of direction. 00:26:51
100%. 00:26:53
And so I know you have to follow some sort of code. 00:26:54
To you know, you've got to be fair and equitable. 00:26:58
But making sure the sheriff and fire, are they the ones? Are they at the table each time and giving you their plans? How's that 00:27:03
process workout? 00:27:07
Of like what their needs are. 00:27:12
Yeah, I mean, maybe Holden can speak more to this, but essentially as we go over building. 00:27:14
Plans with the Utah City development, we work closely with Orem Fire to make sure that they have the clearances needed for their 00:27:18
fire apparatuses to, you know, make sure that the building can be reached on all corners. 00:27:24
And then I, I don't know if you want to speak up on what you've done on your end, but. 00:27:30
So from my input on this is. Obviously we inputted or gave the. 00:27:35
Give Rachel. 00:27:39
Like all of our calls for service. 00:27:40
We talked about current staffing, talked to her about. 00:27:42
Potential future staffing, what that's going to look like and obviously when it comes to future staffing and crime in the 00:27:46
downtown, we're going to need some data before we know what and we're going to expect what might happen right with population 00:27:49
increase and. 00:27:53
And also like the increase in business and daytime population and the frontrunner station and we'll we'll monitor that closely. 00:27:58
And so like in this document that you guys have, it'll talk, it talks a little bit about. 00:28:05
Officer per thousand, you know what I mean, if that that ratio and what that needs to look like. You know when I first came to 00:28:11
Vineyard we were like at one for 2000. 00:28:15
And as we've grown and then calls get more, we get more calls, we get more people coming. The city, that number comes down, you 00:28:19
know where we. 00:28:22
We're now closer to the one per 12150. 00:28:26
We'll keep monitoring that. That's something I track very closely as calls response times. 00:28:29
Types of calls we're getting. 00:28:34
Those types of things that you know, lots of different metrics that we look at. 00:28:36
And so we'll continue to do that. 00:28:39
I mean, we've had some crime by the front runner station. I wouldn't say that it's anything that's. 00:28:43
Alarming at this point I'm. 00:28:47
We've taken care. 00:28:49
We're aware of it and we. 00:28:51
Closely monitor it so. 00:28:52
And will continue to do so. 00:28:54
I will say that the one thing that the master plan does call out is that we are at capacity for our Sheriff's Office here. We 00:28:57
really don't have. 00:29:00
Any room as we just expanded into our conference room here. 00:29:04
And so that is something that we definitely need to pay attention to as a city is it's how we can accommodate that for bringing 00:29:07
more officers, how are we going to accommodate their growth, their, their storage demands and all that. So and if I can just add 00:29:11
to that as well. So when we're talking about impact fee. 00:29:16
That's my understanding those impact fees can be used to build facilities. 00:29:21
And so when we talk about building facilities. 00:29:25
I mean, there there's potential like we could talk about are we going to keep this is a public safety building, Are we going to 00:29:28
different public safety building? 00:29:31
And now those are discussions we can have in the future and and. 00:29:34
But we know that right now we're at capacity in this building. I mean, if you come into our office. 00:29:38
I got two guys in every office and you know. 00:29:42
My secretary is in the same space as the patrol guys. You know, it's pretty tight quarters and, and it works. We're making it 00:29:45
work, which is great. 00:29:49
But as we grow. 00:29:54
As we add more. 00:29:55
We're going to need to add that capacity and so that's what this fee. 00:29:56
When we started this process, the whole goal was and my intention when we stopped said we're going to do it. Master plan is. 00:30:00
It's only worth it. 00:30:05
If we implement an impact fee. 00:30:07
Right, spending money and we were able to do this. 00:30:09
At staff time cost, because Rachel did it for us, we had initially talked about doing this study. 00:30:11
And paying an outside firm, but we were able to do it internally and save a bunch of money on this particular study. 00:30:15
Now the. 00:30:20
The Zions portion of it will cost money of course, but. 00:30:21
This was done by step with staff time. 00:30:25
Which is great. 00:30:27
But if if we implement the impact fee then we can address those future build out needs. 00:30:29
And and we'll work towards that. 00:30:33
So. 00:30:36
I just, I mean, when you model something, it's the information you put in, it's the information you get out and. 00:30:38
So. 00:30:43
Understanding the Utah city has not. 00:30:44
Delineated a population. 00:30:47
I would hope that we would do the top end of that population. 00:30:50
To make sure that we're prepared. 00:30:54
Prepared until they delineate what the population is and stick to that. 00:30:55
Then we need to plan for worst case scenario. 00:31:00
And in meeting with other cities, it's really important that. 00:31:03
You know they. 00:31:08
You missed the mark, you missed the mark and then you're in trouble and you only got one shot to to hit it right. 00:31:09
And so. 00:31:15
I think the. 00:31:16
The crime rate. 00:31:17
We do have good modeling and I think South Salt Lake and a few other train stations that or track stations that are around there. 00:31:19
In showing the crime is probably the best because. 00:31:27
You know, as the as the track station moves the crime. 00:31:30
Follows it. 00:31:33
Just to be clear. 00:31:35
And uh. 00:31:37
Many communities were really caught off guard. 00:31:38
As as you go to them, they're like we under. 00:31:41
Prepared for it. 00:31:44
We didn't staff for it and the other thing is is putting. 00:31:45
Officers, right? 00:31:49
There in that location. 00:31:50
Is critical. 00:31:52
You know not. 00:31:54
You know, right, Right. Where we are here is not. 00:31:56
The best situation to be there? 00:32:00
So I think a few have actually put like not a mobile station, but kind of like a. 00:32:03
That's where they're positioning their officers. 00:32:07
So I just. 00:32:10
I think before next week, just making sure. 00:32:13
What? 00:32:16
Data you're modeling. 00:32:17
Like how did you pull those? 00:32:19
What did you put into to get to that? 00:32:21
Now it has to be justified, right? Because. 00:32:24
They're going to push back and go. 00:32:27
Hey, this is. 00:32:29
You know, it's got to be a real number. 00:32:30
And I imagine that's going to be a political. 00:32:32
Back and forth of what that lands on because. 00:32:34
They haven't had a. 00:32:38
Impact master fee. 00:32:39
From the beginning, right? 00:32:41
So, yeah. And to be clear, nobody in veneers had that since 2008. 00:32:42
Right. So, so no neighborhood. 00:32:46
Has contributed to their public safety impact fee. 00:32:48
Right. Umm. 00:32:52
Since that date when it was paused by a previous council. 00:32:54
So right. 00:32:57
And and I mean. 00:32:58
The great thing is, I mean we've, we've done really well in Vineyard from my perspective as far as keeping up on staffing. 00:33:00
Our intention is to continue to do that. 00:33:05
And, and that's something I come to the city with every year on, you know what, what we need as far as staffing goes. 00:33:08
And so far we've done, I feel like we've done really well as far as our our staffing, especially when I look at it compared to 00:33:14
other cities. 00:33:17
And especially other contract cities that we have with the Sheriff's Office, we've done really well that way. 00:33:21
And we'll continue to do that and. 00:33:25
With the downtown, obviously we're going into that eyes wide open, but we've we've been talking about it for years since I've been 00:33:28
here about how are we going to keep it safe there. 00:33:32
As far as the. 00:33:36
The station, this doesn't need to be discussed necessarily in this plan as far as where we're putting the station right, but. 00:33:37
The guys are mobile. 00:33:42
And their stations, they're off their car is their office basically. So where this is. 00:33:43
Is not as critical unless we're seeing really. 00:33:48
Delayed response times because they're here riding the horse. Don't have to respond to a call. 00:33:51
We do have one wonderful benefit of. 00:33:55
We don't have very far to go in vineyards to get to most places, right? And so that response times have been phenomenal for years. 00:33:57
But there is a potential of maybe, you know, maybe a substation or somewhere if we if. 00:34:05
If the downtown were to get so dense as it possibly could. 00:34:09
There may be a different type of policing we're doing, maybe on foot patrols or bike patrols. 00:34:14
And in that case, we may want a little substation somewhere that could just be there to write a report. So that's something we'll 00:34:18
definitely look at as as that comes online. 00:34:22
Yeah, you know the Gerald Anderson downtown plan prior to Utah City and Flag Row purchasing it, You know, only had. 00:34:27
15,000 build out right? 00:34:35
And then out of the blue it switches over to. 00:34:37
Unlimited and and. 00:34:40
The Flag Borough purchasing it and. 00:34:41
Upwards to 60,000 and that's a huge difference. 00:34:43
And you know, Gerald always refused to go high and vertical and. 00:34:47
And didn't want to do that type of building, even though it was vineyards downtown and. 00:34:52
Now they want to go vertical and. 00:34:56
And so we just need to make sure that. 00:34:59
You know you coming in it's. 00:35:02
You need to pay for. 00:35:04
That type of public safety that it's going to go because it's a completely different financial ball of wax and. 00:35:05
We need to make sure we send that messaging so. 00:35:12
Jacob Wood, did you have anything to add? 00:35:15
I do not. 00:35:16
Cash could I get you to? 00:35:18
You kind of talked about the next steps in the process. Would you talk about the timeline a little bit real quick and just kind of 00:35:19
give me a broad? 00:35:22
Picture. Yeah, absolutely. So next week we are asking for the council to allow us to enter into this contract with Zion Public 00:35:25
Finance and that would allow them to use this. 00:35:29
This master plan that we've drafted here to. 00:35:34
Come up with this impact fee. 00:35:36
And we would like to also have the Council adopt this this master plan. 00:35:38
And I don't know if that will happen next week. It might happen in. 00:35:43
Maybe a month? 00:35:45
Just we want to make sure we get all the comments from you guys on this. 00:35:46
But that would be the timeline we get the contract signed, assigned public finance hopefully within, I would say probably within 00:35:50
three months they'd have good data back to us and they would essentially say. 00:35:55
This is going to be the cost of your public safety. Here's how much you can impose for for every unit and they can break it down. 00:36:00
Different cities have done, you know, single family residential a certain number and multi families a different number. 00:36:05
Commercials a different number. 00:36:11
And then it's up to the council to adopt that. You can adopt the full 100% fee. You could say we're only going to charge 50% of 00:36:12
whatever you feel is is adequate. 00:36:16
But that would be the next step. So I'd say once we have that contract, we're probably, I would say three months away from being 00:36:22
able to get that impact fee. 00:36:25
Into our system, we would have to go through and put it into our consolidated fee schedule. 00:36:28
So it might be a little bit longer than that, but. 00:36:33
But we'll work as fast as we can. 00:36:36
OK. And regarding the? 00:36:38
Master plan, you'd like that. 00:36:39
Sorry, was that Ezra chiming in? 00:36:41
Sorry, yeah, I just, I just had a comment. 00:36:44
I believe there was some legislative. 00:36:47
To now, I think there was a bill passed at the legislature that. 00:36:50
That's a deadline for when we can implement this. 00:36:56
I don't know if anybody's heard about that or if Jesse, you've you've looked into that at all, but. 00:37:00
I think. 00:37:05
Usually if they set those deadlines, I feel like they're in May. 00:37:07
I could double check on that, but. 00:37:11
I can work with you on that Ezran. 00:37:13
Jesse. 00:37:15
So we've got to get it done before May. 00:37:17
My next question was going to. 00:37:21
Jeff, see I received an e-mail on that today. 00:37:23
Outwarded to the Council. 00:37:26
OK with. 00:37:28
With the need to adopt. 00:37:31
The new master plan. 00:37:32
For this. 00:37:34
How quickly can the Council expect to see? 00:37:35
That proposal. 00:37:38
I I sent the counter, I sent the draft to you all last Tuesday. 00:37:39
I haven't gotten any comments on it yet. 00:37:43
When you say master plan, it's not the. 00:37:46
Planning master plan, it's just the it's called the no yeah, it's called the public safety master plan. It does not mention impact 00:37:47
fees, right, Because this is a complete this is saying. 00:37:52
For our future needs, here's what we made. 00:37:57
And then from there, we get the impact fee analysis done. 00:37:59
In order to do that analysis, we have to have this master plan. So would you? 00:38:02
So I might have looked at it as the schedule, but did you include like what the? 00:38:06
I'll have to go back and find it the proposed adoption and the measure for that. 00:38:12
What do you mean? 00:38:16
Yeah, we can. We can just. 00:38:21
Let me pull up the actual document. 00:38:23
OK, Yeah, it is. It is a lengthy document. It looks like it's. 00:38:25
How many pages? 00:38:30
38 pages. 00:38:31
A lot of it's just really good data that I think would be really good for the council to be aware of with it has all of our 00:38:33
incident information. It has a map showing where we do have higher incident rates. 00:38:37
Response times, stuff like that. 00:38:41
So I'm just trying to make sure that I have this. 00:38:45
So this is the document. 00:38:55
It's got the police needs assessment that goes through and I've got a couple things highlighted if we have questions on. 00:38:59
Or like that needed to be updated. Since this happened, for example we have now have 4 sergeants and two detectives. 00:39:04
Oh, I see it got buried in the tough discussion. 00:39:11
OK. And then it goes through like? 00:39:15
Our equipment need the equipment that we have. 00:39:16
Response time. Staffing facilities. 00:39:20
Talks about population. 00:39:24
We're a forum and then it goes into police and fire, obviously on both of those. 00:39:29
And so it just goes through. 00:39:33
Future needs forecasting. Future needs risk assessment. Natural talks about natural hazards. 00:39:35
This is like a heat map for calls for us, this is police related calls. 00:39:42
And this is, has that broken down into officer generator versus public generated? 00:39:51
And takeaways from that Population size and density, age distribution, socioeconomic factors. 00:39:59
And what kind of implication those have for us? 00:40:06
So this is the document that. 00:40:14
You know, if you guys have questions on you see something, hey, tell me more about that. 00:40:16
Love feedback on that from you if I feel like something. 00:40:19
You want something changed or you? 00:40:23
Have questions about? 00:40:24
This is the document we'd love to have questions on. 00:40:25
But as I mentioned, towards the end is where I'd really pay attention. That's going to go over costs like when we'll need a new 00:40:27
fire station, how much is that going to cost? 00:40:31
And so on with. 00:40:35
And it breaks it down by, you know, priority and the funding. 00:40:37
Give us a good idea of kind of what the future looks like and I do want to mention that the population data we use here is is a 00:40:41
pretty. 00:40:44
Large number, I mean it's a large range saying we don't know exactly what the future population is and that's why we try to use 00:40:47
the one officer per thousand resident as a good rule of thumb. And so that's what this calls for. 00:40:53
I was just talking to that. 00:40:59
This is also something we will have to update the impact fee analysis every few years just to make sure that we are kind of 00:41:01
staying on target with where things are at and so we'll be able to reevaluate the population at that time as well. 00:41:06
OK. Would anybody like to make a comment while we're on this? 00:41:12
Item 3.1. 00:41:17
Great. 00:41:20
Let's go ahead and move on to. 00:41:21
Yeah. 00:41:24
She's too short. 00:41:26
Hidden in the back. 00:41:28
Now. 00:41:31
That pillar is the Politico pillar. This pillar, I don't know what it is, but it's the Karen pillar. Karen pillar. 00:41:32
Yeah. 00:41:38
I've been quiet for too many meetings. 00:41:40
Karen Cornelius, Phyllis. 00:41:43
I just have a question about. 00:41:45
The equity in this? 00:41:48
Plan because. 00:41:50
The needs for Utah City are going to be very different. 00:41:51
Than the needs for. 00:41:54
Vineyard itself. 00:41:56
Yeah, starting with. 00:41:58
We probably need ladder trucks when you look at the. 00:42:00
The height of those vertical buildings. 00:42:03
We don't need ladder trucks over here. 00:42:05
So will it be equitable in how? 00:42:08
Those fees are assessed. 00:42:11
Or is it going to be something that's. 00:42:13
We're all going to end up paying for what's going on on the other side of 800. 00:42:16
And then my other question is. 00:42:23
And I think that. 00:42:25
It was pretty well answered, but. 00:42:28
And not having enough room in this building for all of the officers. 00:42:29
I would hope that all the officers were never in the building at the same time. 00:42:34
They we need them on the street. 00:42:38
And that's obvious. 00:42:40
From parking. 00:42:41
From the kids on their. 00:42:43
Electric motorized. 00:42:44
Toys. 00:42:47
We need. 00:42:48
Our police officers out, we don't need them in a building all the time, but I think that that was addressed, that their cars are 00:42:49
there. 00:42:53
Their offices. So I would hope that that would be. 00:42:57
The same. 00:43:00
Were there any other questions? Sorry. 00:43:00
OK, that doesn't. Yeah, that's why I go into the modeling of like. 00:43:03
It's not. It's not. 00:43:09
Yeah, on the modeling, I'm concerned about that as well because. 00:43:11
You come into a city and you go, we're going from 15 to 60. 00:43:15
OK. Are you paying for that? Is that a burden upon all the rest since you adjusted that? 00:43:18
And making sure that it's equitable to what they're going to want to do. 00:43:25
So my other. 00:43:30
Question was. 00:43:31
If they are building for 60,000, are we assessing for 60,000? I want to be clear. 00:43:33
They won't. 00:43:38
Put a target date right, but you can see what they've asked in terms of for water. 00:43:39
And so if they're buying the water, well then I think it's really important that maybe we have. 00:43:44
Set incremental dates to review. 00:43:51
Correct. Those fees, it can't be just every few years. We will do it. 00:43:54
But we have a set time. 00:43:58
Especially if they come down off of, I mean not setting a number. You should. 00:44:00
Plan for. 00:44:04
OK, this is potentially that could be. 00:44:05
And then as it goes down, it could go down in the other direction, but you're planning for the worst case, so you're taking the 00:44:08
money up front. 00:44:11
And then if it's, hey, we're only going to go to four story and. 00:44:15
We're gonna. 00:44:21
Do more commercial instead of what? 00:44:22
You know what has been up to this point? 00:44:24
Then yeah, I agree with that. You know, I talked with many cities and. 00:44:26
They said you just got to constantly review these things. Every tears just look at it and say. 00:44:30
Is this on point to make sure? Well and as new as we are, is every two years enough? 00:44:35
Well, it's my question. You have different construction costs, right? So things change and alter. And so, yeah, you've got to 00:44:40
stand on top of those. 00:44:43
So OK. 00:44:47
Thank you. 00:44:48
I speaking with the Fire Chief, he's been trying to get on the agenda for years to have the impact. 00:44:50
Fee done and I know the previous council just so we got to start from somewhere, right? 00:44:56
I can answer to some of that so please. 00:45:01
The the equity of this impact fee, you only pay the fee at the time of building permit. So for example, if you're an existing 00:45:02
resident in Vineyard, you will not. 00:45:06
Seen an impact from this? 00:45:10
The I was just talking to him, he did say that we are able to split the city into different zones per se. 00:45:12
But when you do that, then those impact fees can only be spent in those zones. So if Utah City wanted its own impact fee zone. 00:45:19
Then they would pay into that. 00:45:25
That zone and we could not use that money outside of that. 00:45:27
So that's something that the council could consider as well as as we work with Zion's Public Finance, we could work with them. 00:45:30
On how we breakdown this fee, rather than just single family versus multifamily versus commercial, we could say buildings over a 00:45:37
certain height have a different impact fee because they do need different types of fire equipment, stuff like that. I will say 00:45:42
that Utah City has been working very closely with Orem Fire to make sure that they are able to provide adequate services and as we 00:45:47
go through our development review committee. 00:45:53
You know, warm fires, they're signing off a. 00:45:58
Proving essentially of these developments that have gone in saying that we have adequate coverage to to make these buildings work. 00:46:00
I don't see any negative as to why it wouldn't be broken up into zones. I get it like hey the other side couldn't get it but the 00:46:07
needs on the other side are are the one downside is is. 00:46:12
You know this part of Woods a lot less fun. Share. 00:46:17
Right. But this is that capacity of the buildings though, so, so my the staffing of the people, my thought too and and this 00:46:21
information is maybe a little bit. 00:46:26
Dated at this point a couple months ago at my last meeting with the Utah City developers. Pete Nate. 00:46:30
They express that their target was. 00:46:37
40,000 people. 00:46:39
I think the build out. 00:46:41
But that brings so the 60,000 number. 00:46:42
Would be vineyard total, right? And that's what this study uses. It says a range of 50 to 70,000 people. 00:46:45
The vast majority of all future build out is occurring over there, right. The vast majority of the impact fees comes from over 00:46:51
there. 00:46:54
Yeah. So I think. 00:46:58
Meeting with Zion and hearing the recommendation of. 00:47:02
Breaking it into zone, would they recommend that since? 00:47:05
Since the buildings would be. 00:47:08
I mean, yeah, we can absolutely bring that up with them and see if they can give us that chart and. 00:47:10
See what that impact the president would look like. Yeah. So and they will pay per unit. It's not, you know, per building, it is 00:47:15
per unit that they would be paying this fee on it too, so. 00:47:20
Per door, right for you, Yeah. Yep. 00:47:24
As I think he's trying to make a comment. 00:47:26
Yeah, yeah. I was just saying we should definitely look at that. 00:47:29
But for example one. 00:47:33
One disincentive to doing it in the zone. 00:47:35
For example, if we wanted to have the fire station. 00:47:38
Outside of Utah City, if we wanted to build a new one. 00:47:41
We would be limited to. 00:47:43
The windmill and I got just trying to go off the chair. 00:47:45
And and we can I. 00:47:48
When I meet with Zion Public Ones, we've signed this contract, I can meet with them and kind of go over all of the ideas that 00:47:49
we've had and kind of get their. 00:47:53
Thought process on this and kind of get best practice what other cities have done that have worked well and. 00:47:56
And present maybe multiple options for the Council. 00:48:01
Who's the Councilman leading this effort? We had someone aside. I don't think anybody's been assigned yet. 00:48:04
That I'm aware. 00:48:10
You're the finance guy. 00:48:11
Sure. 00:48:13
OK. Parker is the. Can you make sure Parker is? Yeah, absolutely. 00:48:16
Any other comments while we're on this issue? 00:48:24
David, you were. 00:48:27
Kind of raising your hand. 00:48:27
Just a quick question. 00:48:31
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 00:48:33
If we build resources, law enforcement or. 00:48:36
Fire resources and. 00:48:39
One part of the city. 00:48:40
Or another part of They're available for the whole city, aren't they? 00:48:42
Yeah, I mean, when it comes to our office, we're available for the whole city. We. 00:48:49
You know we don't. 00:48:53
And that would apply for. 00:48:54
Anything else, any other and the same thing would be true for. I mean, I don't want to speak for. 00:48:56
Fire their resources. They. 00:49:00
Constantly are collaborating with different, different stations, you know one stations out the next one. They have it all set up 00:49:02
all with that ambulance busy. 00:49:06
The next ambulance at this station comes in, so they collaborate as well. 00:49:09
So OK. 00:49:13
Thank you. Thanks. 00:49:14
All right, let's move on to item 3.2. This is travel policy review. 00:49:16
David, did you have somebody to lead this? 00:49:21
Jesse, do you want to? 00:49:25
Take the travel policy or I can do it. 00:49:27
Hey, welcome back. And we're glad you're healthy, Jesse, by the way. 00:49:29
He's on mute. 00:49:35
Hopefully we get to see you in person. 00:49:36
Sometime soon, right? 00:49:39
OK, so before you use the travel policy created by our city. 00:49:41
Attorney. 00:49:47
There's some. 00:49:48
Basically, decisions that the Council needs to make. 00:49:49
Basically fill in the blank. 00:49:54
The first one is on line number, I mean on one approval process. 00:49:57
Right now, it's written in greater than 35 miles from Vineyard City Hall for local travel. 00:50:04
For. 00:50:11
Needing approval. 00:50:11
How far is the? 00:50:14
Capital from here. 00:50:16
About 40 miles. 00:50:19
I should know, I drive it a lot. 00:50:22
I would recommend that. 00:50:24
You. We. 00:50:25
We up that to. 00:50:26
4042.2 miles, 42 point. 00:50:28
43 But we say 4545. 00:50:31
So that if they're going to the Capitol, they don't. 00:50:34
You know department head doesn't need approval to go. 00:50:37
Do you have? 00:50:41
David, I'm trying to find the copy of this and I'm not seeing it in our emails. Do you have? 00:50:43
A copy you can send to us of the draft right now as it is. Yeah, it should be on the. 00:50:48
Oh, do I need to go to Civic Plus? Yeah. 00:50:53
So I had. 00:50:58
You know, I had staff print me out the entire. 00:50:59
Agenda all the agenda items and you can see it covers. 00:51:03
Like I've got paper everywhere. 00:51:06
So probably, unless you want to have. 00:51:09
A little mess up there. 00:51:12
I don't. 00:51:14
Do you have an e-mail from Thursday? You can forward it to me. 00:51:15
I don't have it in my. 00:51:18
Box. 00:51:20
They just need to the City Council e-mail for to keep partner travel draft 1. 00:51:22
Yeah, yeah. I'm not seeing that. 00:51:27
No, I think 45 miles is reasonable. 00:51:32
OK. So that's good. 00:51:37
OK, Yeah. 00:51:39
So do we. Thanks, Ezra. 00:51:41
Do we want to say or we want to say 45 or round it to 50? 00:51:43
I'm 45 is fine. 454545 is authorization if you need 50. 00:51:51
Yeah, OK. Where where else? OK, so. 00:51:56
Be out of town overnight travel expenses. 00:52:01
Over right now we have a threshold of $300 submitted travel authorization. Can I stop and go backwards? Yes, you may. 00:52:04
45 would be one way. 00:52:12
That's true. 00:52:14
So you really need it to be 90. 00:52:15
So that they can come home. 00:52:18
90 rounds, it says from Vineyard City Hall. 00:52:19
OK, so radius, yes, got it. 00:52:22
OK. 00:52:25
OK, so out of town overnight travel or expenses over a threshold of $300. Submit travel authorization form in advance for approval 00:52:29
by the department head or finance director. Is that total trip? 00:52:36
$300 total trip. 00:52:43
Yes. 00:52:46
The sad language for the total trip over 300. 00:52:46
Are we good with 300? 00:52:54
Seems reasonable, yeah. 00:52:56
Anybody. 00:52:57
So. 00:52:59
OK, let's see. 00:53:01
OK, lodging. 00:53:05
Reimbursed for overnight stays when the destination is and this is. 00:53:06
Another fill in the blank. 00:53:11
Currently, we have written greater than 50 miles from Vineyard City. 00:53:13
Say that again. 00:53:18
Reimbursed for overnight stays when the destination is greater than 50 miles from Vineyard. 00:53:19
I would extend that. 00:53:26
Well, OK, what's the necessity of? 00:53:28
The overnight stay and you should probably factor into accounts the residency location of the employee. 00:53:31
That would just be my thought as a best practice. Like for example if somebody has to drive to. 00:53:38
Logan or something like that, right? Longer trip. It's going to be 3 hours up, three hours back. That makes more sense. 00:53:43
If somebody drives to. 00:53:50
North Salt Lake. 00:53:52
Bountiful area. 00:53:53
But they live. 00:53:55
In Salt Lake. 00:53:57
Doesn't really make sense to pay for an overnight stay, so I was just. 00:53:58
Can we factor that into the? 00:54:02
Equation I will. 00:54:05
Asked Jesse. 00:54:06
Do that. 00:54:08
OK. All right. So the other is per diem for overnight travel? 00:54:09
Prorated for partial days. 00:54:14
75% on travel days. 00:54:17
That's a question that right now Jesse has it written is 75%. 00:54:21
What is the per diem? 00:54:25
Well, yeah, that's that's set by the government, so OK. 00:54:29
But 70 generally in Utah City per diem is about 170 dollars. 00:54:34
OK. It includes the overnight stay in your bill? 00:54:39
OK, just a roundabout number. 00:54:42
OK, currently. 00:54:46
Jesse as the example is 75% on travel days. 00:54:48
I see. 00:54:52
That sounds reasonable. OK. 00:54:53
And then two more. 00:54:55
Reimbursement process. 00:54:58
Submit travel expense report with receipts within 60 days of return. 00:54:59
Or paper using the system or paper form. 00:55:05
Is 60 days a pretty standard practice? 00:55:09
That's really long. That seems to get mine out within 14 days saying the military it's you got to have it in the 1st 14 days and 00:55:12
then they have 14 days to review it and you've got, you know, time to appeal then. But it's all going to be done in 30 days. And 00:55:17
so it just seems so do you want to have it? 00:55:21
30 days. 00:55:25
Yeah, do 30 days, OK. 00:55:26
Or we could do 15. 00:55:29
And then last advances available for large trips must be reconciled within 30 days or repaid. 00:55:32
And the days. 00:55:40
Right now, Jesse has written in 30 days. 00:55:42
Yeah, I think like I love advances if it's upfront and I think. 00:55:47
Citizens or employees shouldn't have to fork it over, especially if they're. 00:55:52
They're, you know, OK. 00:55:56
Then that's it. That's. 00:55:57
Review of the travel policy. 00:55:58
And that'll be on the agenda next week for approval. 00:56:00
OK, Can we? 00:56:04
Can we post that somewhere and make it public that we've? 00:56:05
It is posted on on our website through Civic, but just like social media network, hey, we had social media. We're looking at this 00:56:08
policy. We're looking at it. If you post it that way, the public can give comments on social media as well. We can collect more 00:56:15
data and information totally posted to social. There's four or five sleuths out there that want to know. 00:56:21
You know, umm. 00:56:28
So anybody that wants to review the travel policy in their leisure. 00:56:29
Yeah, umm. 00:56:32
Light reading also just as a public just as a public comment. 00:56:34
Could you take anonymous feedback from citizens and just send an e-mail out to all of them and say. 00:56:38
I'll keep your names confidential from from council and. 00:56:43
Bring that feedback. 00:56:47
To us, because I don't know how we would do anonymous unless we just have a forum online. 00:56:48
That somebody could. 00:56:52
Are HR person doesn't have an anonymous thing saying hey give us some feedback. 00:56:54
I want to make sure they're at the table as well because. 00:56:58
I'd been screwed over on my company's travel policy before and I just want to make sure if there's some gaps. 00:57:01
Or how about you just say? 00:57:07
This is an open. There will be no. 00:57:09
Feel free to give us some feedback, we want to make sure we get this right and. 00:57:11
Like it's for everyone, right? You guys need to be at the table. 00:57:16
So OK. 00:57:19
I would just say post on. 00:57:21
Social media. 00:57:22
Yeah. 00:57:23
Hopefully they'll feel comfortable. 00:57:26
So yeah, I don't. 00:57:28
They might not like it. I was just going to say like, what's the point of collecting the anonymous response there? 00:57:31
If your position isn't strong enough that you're willing to stand true position, it does create a like. 00:57:37
Just say that there is an open desire to understand and we're. 00:57:44
We're flexible and I don't think any of us are going to hold it against it. Yeah, like, hey, this, have you thought about the. 00:57:47
Because they they're the ones that travel and. And there might be some unique circumstances like hey, this doesn't fit because of 00:57:51
that and. 00:57:55
You didn't think about that? Well then maybe just include. 00:57:59
Include a mechanism for variation or an appeal and say, hey, if you want something to be changed or deviated from this policy, 00:58:02
bring it. 00:58:06
You know, to the council at the session two weeks before you travel or whatever. 00:58:09
All right, being proactive public comment on this. 00:58:13
Anyone would like? 00:58:19
Just. 00:58:20
Ezra Yep, I've got one more comment. 00:58:23
On six can we get rid of the phone? 00:58:26
We don't need to pay for. 00:58:28
Home expenses I feel like. 00:58:30
Is that park travel policy? 00:58:33
We provide a cell phone if they need a. 00:58:34
That's another policy. 00:58:38
Discussion, I think. 00:58:40
Ezra because. 00:58:41
As I understand it, right now the city has. 00:58:42
Multiple phone plans with multiple different carriers. 00:58:45
And we need to kind of work and consolidate those to begin with. 00:58:49
I know we spoke with Robin about this when we. 00:58:53
When the clerk, when we put her in and we're going to have the finance person, I mean, oh, you guys are really busy so it's not 00:58:55
really a high priority. There could also be if you're staying at a hotel, you. 00:59:00
Could have. 00:59:04
Internet Wi-Fi charge, Wi-Fi charges. 00:59:06
So I see. 00:59:09
It just it just seems like. 00:59:12
OK, well, not necessarily if you have a. 00:59:15
If a. 00:59:22
I used to call him a puck. Just an Wi-Fi puck. Yeah, a Wi-Fi puck that. 00:59:24
You know those. 00:59:29
Go to your phone bill. 00:59:30
So yeah. 00:59:31
But that would have to be an employee. 00:59:33
That. Yeah, that. 00:59:35
Yeah, no, I don't see any. I mean, that would already be paid for by. 00:59:39
The city, I guess, if it was needed. 00:59:43
So yeah, well, and if the city is already paying for it, you'd probably just take it out as a. 00:59:45
We're going to go and look at your phone bill and prorate. You know, you're 30 days, you're going to be traveling for two days. So 00:59:52
we're going to pay for $7.90 for your phone. That seems, yeah. 00:59:57
So agreed. 01:00:02
OK, we'll make those edits and have it ready for next week for approval. 01:00:04
OK. We're going to move on to Item 3.3, Municipal Wastewater Planning Program, MWPP. 01:00:09
Survey Review. 01:00:16
Nassim, is that one that you're? 01:00:18
Leading on. 01:00:20
Yes, Sir. 01:00:22
Could we switch the order and do the? 01:00:24
RDA audit update. 01:00:26
I'm gonna be. 01:00:27
In a meeting in about 15 minutes if that's OK. 01:00:29
Are you good at that, Jacob? Sure. Is that OK? 01:00:32
Is that OK with you guys? 01:00:34
Just switch the order real quick. 01:00:36
OK. Are you leading on the RDA update or do you want me to you're on that? 01:00:39
I'm on the committee. I think it was actually David Larrea, David Larae was leading, but I didn't know if he had asked one of you 01:00:44
guys to bring this up so. 01:00:47
For those who aren't in the know, David Larae is undergoing heart surgery today. 01:00:50
He's having a valve replaced, that's why he's not with us. 01:00:54
He has been leading. 01:00:58
On the RDA. 01:01:00
Subcommittee, is that what we're calling that? 01:01:03
Yep, so I can lead on this. 01:01:05
So we sent out the Chris, you know, our auditor's estimate. 01:01:07
Following up on the RDA audit. 01:01:13
And. 01:01:16
He's out obviously doing the heart valve. 01:01:18
There's a couple of things. 01:01:22
We were waiting to get. 01:01:24
Separate funding from the RDA. Money's worked out. 01:01:27
We were also trying to post an RFP. 01:01:30
Because the total was. 01:01:34
About 50,000 and we were told our own funding rules required an RFP. 01:01:36
At the level of spending. 01:01:42
Now that we have. 01:01:44
Our finance director in place and we know that the money is available. 01:01:45
1. 01:01:51
The RDA. 01:01:52
Few things we've learned The RDA is merely a subunit of the city budget. 01:01:53
The Rd. does not have a separate budget. 01:01:57
Or accounting system there is money to pay for this audit expenditure already in the account. 01:01:59
We do not intend to hire anyone. 01:02:06
Other than Chris Harding, because it's about halfway, it's like building the house halfway. 01:02:08
And we haven't completed the house. 01:02:13
So why would you switch? 01:02:15
Talking with Council. 01:02:18
We have, we've agreed upon. 01:02:20
The procedures of the audit already because he's the only person that's did it. 01:02:22
And we are 2.5 months into the tenor. 01:02:27
Because of all the changes and everything that we have promised. 01:02:30
On these RDA reforms. 01:02:33
And so. 01:02:35
With the timing that we have several large RDA payments that are due on April 1st and we've got to get this done before we do it. 01:02:39
And there are some ramifications with the new law that passed we just talked about. 01:02:47
From the last legislatures that may limit our ability to control the RDA and having. 01:02:51
Specific land decisions. 01:02:57
So. 01:02:59
In speaking with legal counsel. 01:03:00
Jesse, you're here, hopefully. 01:03:05
If you want to speak up. 01:03:06
The council and it's been advised by the mayor that we need to just suspend. 01:03:09
Procurement rules and just. 01:03:13
Use the emergent. 01:03:15
Situation. 01:03:17
Vote on this and next meeting. 01:03:19
Jesse, do you want to talk about? 01:03:21
The advice you've given us? 01:03:22
Yes, we did talk to the state auditor and they recommended since we already have a contract with. 01:03:25
The the consultant. 01:03:31
That we can do an addendum to that contract and just add a new scope of work. 01:03:33
And so that's what. 01:03:38
I think the resolution I've written. 01:03:40
I think it says an amendment, but it's actually an addendum. 01:03:42
I think I got that wrong, maybe in the? 01:03:46
My resolution. 01:03:49
Yeah. So I'm glad that we took the time. I'm glad we. 01:03:50
Consulted the state auditor. Got. 01:03:53
Council of what needed to happen there and had legal counsel now in place so. 01:03:55
What we are proposing is to pass this resolution as part of three-point. 01:03:59
For in our next scheduled business meeting. 01:04:02
And engage Chris Harding on those estimates and. 01:04:05
I think we just make public. 01:04:08
That what we're going to go through after in in the packet for next week so citizens know why this procedure was changed. 01:04:10
And but I'm glad we took the time we thought we had to do an RFP or whatnot. 01:04:18
It's not needed so. 01:04:23
Yeah, I guess. 01:04:25
So. 01:04:28
Generally speaking, I. 01:04:29
Support the intent behind this. 01:04:31
My. 01:04:33
Concerns. 01:04:34
And it sounds like you guys have kind of already sorted this out, but I just wanted to. 01:04:36
I'll say it again. 01:04:40
So that Jesse can chime in and we can have a good legal understanding on it is that one. 01:04:41
I want to make sure that. 01:04:47
We're not. 01:04:48
Violating any rules, laws or obligations when it comes to procurement. 01:04:49
Second, I want to make sure that we're not opening up risk when we say things like. 01:04:54
You know, we intend to hire Chris Harding and. 01:05:00
Not anybody else because then I know we we run into maybe a legal question when it comes to sole sourcing. 01:05:03
And. 01:05:09
3rd, just making sure that we're operating. 01:05:11
I wanted to make sure there's not an inaccuracy when we say things like the RDA. 01:05:15
Is a sub. 01:05:20
Aspect of the city because it is a separate legal entity to my understanding. 01:05:21
Correct the finances maybe I didn't describe it. 01:05:25
In the. 01:05:28
In the. 01:05:31
Technical legal terms, but. 01:05:32
That's what our understanding was when we were given our counsel from. 01:05:34
Our finance right and then also from our legal of. 01:05:38
This is pretty normal. 01:05:41
Operating. 01:05:43
And I know we reached out to the. 01:05:44
The state officer shop is. 01:05:46
You know this is. 01:05:48
This was procured the right way by the previous council and Chris Harding was selected. 01:05:49
To do a job. 01:05:55
The previous council. 01:05:57
Made did the. 01:05:59
The. 01:06:01
They followed the law in selecting him as the right person. So it's. 01:06:02
Duplicative. 01:06:06
The Council that we were given its duplicative halfway through to. 01:06:08
You would never. 01:06:12
I mean, it would be very odd that you would go through. 01:06:13
And spend hundreds of hours. I don't remember the total amount of hours that he's deep into it. 01:06:16
To then go OK. 01:06:21
Now that you're halfway through. 01:06:23
You wouldn't just stop and spend hundreds of hours. 01:06:25
Training someone new to then complete the second-half of it is our understanding. He's gained so much describe that right and and 01:06:29
I I generally. 01:06:33
Agree. Umm. 01:06:37
I think it is probably the fastest, most efficient path forward. 01:06:39
So this wasn't a knock on. 01:06:44
On Chris or hiring somebody else, it's. 01:06:46
Are we? 01:06:49
And and Jesse, please chime in. 01:06:50
Are we operating in such a way that we protect the city from? 01:06:52
Legal ramifications, yeah. 01:06:56
According to state auditor. 01:07:02
Because we've already went through the vetting process. 01:07:03
For the consultant. 01:07:06
Chris, then we can just do an addendum. 01:07:08
To add to the scope of work. 01:07:12
Which would be just a new scope of work. 01:07:13
I don't think we're undermining anything publicly. I don't think we're undermining the process. 01:07:16
It doesn't mean Chris is going to be permanently the auditor. 01:07:22
We can always take it back out to bid. 01:07:24
If we want an auditor, we go. 01:07:27
In a different direction or to a deeper level. 01:07:29
So I don't think this is this means Chris is our permanent auditor. 01:07:32
And I don't think we're bypassing anything and. 01:07:36
I the state auditor. 01:07:38
Tended to agree with us on that issue. 01:07:40
OK. Any other comments? 01:07:45
Many from the peanut gallery. 01:07:48
But I'm glad that we took the time. 01:07:51
Say again, Ezra. 01:07:54
I should have turned in before you went to the Peanut Gala. 01:07:56
It's just interesting because of the. 01:08:04
The size of the addendum that that would be my only concern if we're we're asking for. 01:08:07
50% increase on the original contract amount. 01:08:13
And the scope of work is. 01:08:17
It's significantly different. 01:08:19
While the background information is helpful. 01:08:21
For obviously it's helpful for. 01:08:23
Somebody that already have been in the RDA a little bit to? 01:08:27
To make a more competitive quote. 01:08:30
That's where I felt like. 01:08:32
Going to RFP, it still would have been. 01:08:33
Pretty easy for. 01:08:36
You know somebody who has experience with the RDA to. 01:08:38
To, you know, not charge for redoing work that would have needed to be done. 01:08:41
But anybody would have access to the original report which sums up. 01:08:47
All of the original findings that. 01:08:50
That Chris had provided. 01:08:53
That's where. 01:08:54
I have a little bit of pause on. 01:08:56
I'm just, I guess, making those comments of we're doing this because. 01:08:59
This is an individual who's already. 01:09:06
You know, been involved. 01:09:08
If we do want to. 01:09:10
Say the timing is more of the issue and that we want to suspend the procurement rules. 01:09:13
To just expedite getting a contractor. 01:09:18
On board. 01:09:20
I'd be more supportive of. 01:09:21
Making that case, but I think it's important though as we make this decision, we'd like to pick Elaine and say. 01:09:23
This is why we're making it, because if we say. 01:09:28
Oh well, the RDA is a separate entity, so we don't need to follow the same city finance policies. 01:09:31
Like that opens up a whole new can of worms as far as RDA procurement in general because. 01:09:36
My understanding is it all works through. 01:09:41
You know, our current city finance system as far as all those payments go, so I wouldn't want to. 01:09:43
I wouldn't want to like stress. 01:09:47
That if we're really. 01:09:48
The spending rules to just. 01:09:51
On the. 01:09:54
I think multiple things. 01:09:55
Can be true. 01:09:57
I think there's definitely a benefit to moving. 01:09:59
Quickly in this situation. 01:10:01
And subsequently. 01:10:04
I think there's justification and if. 01:10:06
You know, legal counsel can support that and the state auditor's office can support that. I think that that's. 01:10:08
Defensible and then the second aspect. 01:10:14
Is that there is a benefit to? 01:10:17
Having somebody who's already familiar with the work because even if you. 01:10:19
Go bid it out. You're having somebody. Then come in. 01:10:23
Look at and review those documents asking more clarifying questions. All right, they're coming in and they're learning again, and 01:10:26
you're paying for that time as well, so it adds. 01:10:30
You know what a subsequent. 01:10:35
Bid would be. 01:10:37
And then I think. 01:10:38
You brought up Ezra. 01:10:40
That. 01:10:42
You felt like this was a substantial. 01:10:43
Difference in the scope of work and I. 01:10:45
Would argue that it's not, it's just additional depth. 01:10:48
To the scope of work, for example. 01:10:51
You know, we go under contract, we build a house, we want to make a change to the house or the property right at a pickleball 01:10:53
court or whatever. 01:10:57
That doesn't. 01:11:00
Mean there's a substantial change in the scope of work. 01:11:02
Even though you have a cost increase associated with the addendum that puts that onto the property. 01:11:05
Does that make sense? Like it's still? 01:11:10
Part of delivering on the House. 01:11:12
And in this case still part on delivering on the RDA audit? 01:11:15
Yeah, I agree. I think, I think they're all related, but. 01:11:19
When you're looking at. 01:11:22
You know, do I need to go buy a pickleball court? Do I want to necessarily? 01:11:23
Use the same contractor that built the house or could somebody? 01:11:27
Who's a specialist in pickleball courts? 01:11:30
Provide the same. 01:11:32
Service at a different cost. 01:11:34
So I think it would be more fair to bid something like that. 01:11:36
But as long as if Jesse if you just want to provide. 01:11:40
A legal justification and. 01:11:43
Maybe we could all just. 01:11:45
You know. 01:11:46
Say, yes, this is like, this is the reason we're doing this and This is why. 01:11:48
Why we want to do this if we just kind of pinpointed those? 01:11:51
I think I'd be able to get. 01:11:55
More comfortable with that. 01:11:56
Yeah, I think right now just. 01:11:58
Can you let let Jesse reply? 01:12:01
Yeah. Would you like that in a legal opinion or you would like that orally? 01:12:03
I just said that mall would be great. 01:12:09
OK. Thank you. 01:12:11
And I also want to correct the record. 01:12:12
I misspoke. We are not. 01:12:15
Suspending the rules. 01:12:17
We have as a board the ability. 01:12:18
Now reading through it. 01:12:21
We have the ability to create an addendum. 01:12:23
We can decide to do one or the other. We're not. 01:12:25
Going to some emergency thing so I misspoke on that like. 01:12:29
It's all it's with. 01:12:34
In speaking with the state auditor, it's within our legal authority. 01:12:35
As a board. 01:12:39
Because it's our money. 01:12:40
To do that so. 01:12:42
Anyway, we're not suspending rules. 01:12:43
We're just going a different direction. 01:12:47
So cool. Any other? 01:12:48
Comments. Would anyone like to comment on this item while it's up? 01:12:51
Ezra, you get if we move on. 01:12:56
OK, so just for the. 01:13:00
Staff this. 01:13:02
Note it's a public money. 01:13:04
I just always want to make sure whenever we say our money. 01:13:06
We're talking about ours, the public. 01:13:09
Correct. Yeah. 01:13:11
The public's money. 01:13:12
Right. Yeah. 01:13:13
So, staff, this would be on the City Council for vote next week. 01:13:15
On the agenda? Awesome. 01:13:21
OK, now we're going to go back to 3.3 municipal wastewater planning program. 01:13:24
OK. 01:13:30
Thank you. 01:13:38
Thank you very much. Sinasim Gandarpal works. 01:13:39
Director. City Engineer. 01:13:42
So we have the Municipal Wastewater Planning program survey presentation. 01:13:44
For the City Council and the public. 01:13:49
So this presentation was All the information was prepared by Devon Peterson. 01:13:51
Water Wastewater manager, as well as Chris Jackson, the Wastewater crew lead, who's in attendance with us today. 01:13:57
So I just want to. 01:14:05
Take a moment of your time and capture your attention and provide a summary of the survey. 01:14:08
Prior to the meeting. 01:14:14
We sent out an e-mail of this survey. It's, excuse me, this presentation itself. 01:14:15
Along with a draft. 01:14:20
Copy of the survey. 01:14:23
Prefilled out. 01:14:25
Now this survey has not has yet to be submitted to the state. 01:14:26
But I want to provide to the City Council. 01:14:30
It is 14 pages but we consolidate this. 01:14:33
Presentation. 01:14:37
So again, at any time that. 01:14:39
The Council has any questions. Please feel free to ask those questions and we'll. 01:14:41
Will elaborate, but for the purpose of this presentation for members of the Council. 01:14:47
As well as members of the public, we're just going to do an overview of what the survey. 01:14:51
House so. 01:14:56
Just a reminder for everyone, the mission for Public Works providing sustained, essential services for its citizens, welfare and 01:14:59
acceptable quality of life Which? 01:15:04
They're playing centers around the wastewater collections and services. 01:15:09
So just again. 01:15:15
What is the MWP? The municipal wastewater planning program? 01:15:19
Is annual reporting program, so we provide this last year and the year before and the year before to. 01:15:23
The Utah Division of Water Quality. 01:15:29
And we will be doing so in the future as well until they tell us it's not required, but requires municipalities, any municipality 01:15:31
that provides wastewater. 01:15:36
Collection or treatment? 01:15:40
To fill out this survey. 01:15:42
And to about and it provides an opportunity for us to evaluate and report on the technical operational, financial conditions of 01:15:44
our wastewater collections and or treatment systems. 01:15:49
So why it's important? It helps identify. 01:15:55
System capacity, operational risks and funding. 01:15:58
Needs before they become a costly problem. 01:16:00
The and the information that we provide to the State Division of Water Quality, they they actually do provide a. 01:16:04
Consolidate the picture for the full state of Utah as well and that that comes out later in the year. 01:16:10
This survey is. 01:16:16
If you go to the website then they just. They'll then update your dates but this is typically due every April of so I believe 01:16:19
April 15th ish. 01:16:23
Or out of. 01:16:27
Of 2026. 01:16:29
So a quick summary of our survey. I won't go down to the details because a lot of these details are found throughout the 01:16:33
presentation. 01:16:36
But the biggest? 01:16:41
Item on here. 01:16:43
That we want to. 01:16:44
Kind of put out there so. 01:16:46
You know, bottom line. 01:16:48
Our system is. 01:16:49
Well functioning, you know we have, we meet our obligations for operations, maintenance and capital improvements. 01:16:54
After a decade, enterprise that dedicated fund. 01:17:00
AKA Enterprise Fund. 01:17:03
As well as empathies, we have had not. 01:17:05
We have not had any. 01:17:08
Identified issues with the system. 01:17:10
Asked in 2020. 01:17:13
Five, however, we're always we're looking towards the continued growth. 01:17:15
That's going to require ongoing capital investments. 01:17:19
And planning. 01:17:22
I have this broken out into sections. 01:17:24
To align to the survey. 01:17:26
So I'll just go through each section. 01:17:28
To reflect the survey so. 01:17:30
So the financial evaluation section, which is the first section of the survey. 01:17:32
The summary of our answers is that our financial position is we're stable. 01:17:38
Where enterprise funding and revenue sufficient to cover. 01:17:43
Our operations and maintenance and capital needs. 01:17:46
Our rate structure and revenue structure covers our operations, maintenance, replacement and capital improvements. 01:17:49
When I say capital improvements specifically for the rates. 01:17:55
Is it's not the capital improvements required for growth, but the capital improvements required for ongoing operations? 01:17:58
And public works, we use capital improvements interchangeably. 01:18:05
So. 01:18:09
And we have accuracy. We have projected accuracy for the next 5 years. This was done through a 2025. 01:18:11
Sewer utility rate study by. 01:18:18
Zion Public Finance. 01:18:22
Which we have available to anyone, the City Council or the public they would like. 01:18:24
And then for terms of reserves and planning tools, we've updated our capital facility plan in 2025. 01:18:30
And then we do have near term funds meeting those needs reflective in our. 01:18:36
Utility rate study as well as impact fees but. 01:18:43
We have not projected out for the 20 year horizon. 01:18:46
We do have some projections for past five years, however. 01:18:50
Again. Yeah. 01:18:54
The further out do you try project, the further. 01:18:55
Negative. 01:18:58
The more ambiguity there is in those fees, so we try not to overreach too far out. 01:19:01
So the next part of this on the financial evaluation section is for a capital outlook. 01:19:09
This one specifically is in terms of our. 01:19:13
Impact fees for growth, so we do have near term capital needs are funded including $950,000. 01:19:16
In 2025. 01:19:24
We're projected 2.52 point, almost 2.6 million projected for. 01:19:26
The years 2031 to 2035. 01:19:31
And then our impact fees we collect on average per what we call ERU equivalent residential unit. 01:19:36
Roughly about 6500. 01:19:42
Or 66 zero on average. 01:19:45
And we've. 01:19:48
Complete a wastewater. 01:19:50
Collection System Master Plan. 01:19:53
As well as impact fee facility plan. 01:19:55
With this assessment in 2025, so this is. 01:19:57
These numbers are reflect our recent outlook. 01:20:01
In terms of our for our growth of our system. 01:20:05
Our operational considerations, the big item on there. 01:20:08
That we there were. 01:20:12
Looking at is our staffing capacity. 01:20:15
Has been identified as a constraint for a long term system growth. 01:20:17
Our support. 01:20:20
As system grows larger as well as older. 01:20:21
The the need to be able to. 01:20:25
Provide operations and maintenance and prevent. 01:20:29
Preventive maintenance. Reactive maintenance. 01:20:31
As well as emergency repairs. 01:20:33
Becomes more real. 01:20:37
As well. 01:20:39
However, as a. 01:20:40
Department we have. 01:20:43
Put together A10 year projection. 01:20:44
For our staff, our staffing projection. 01:20:47
Based on growth, development and aging. 01:20:49
Which we? 01:20:51
We constantly reflect on. 01:20:53
So it is a we identify this constraint. However, we are actively. 01:20:55
Posture to address those. 01:21:02
The next section is collections. 01:21:05
Section. So this section here. 01:21:07
Type provides a system of our description of our system. 01:21:10
Veneer at the city operates only a municipal wastewater collection system. We do not provide. 01:21:14
Distribution of wastewater, which would be very bad for our residents. 01:21:20
But it's this collection only. 01:21:24
So consisting of lift stations, gravity mains, force mains. 01:21:27
We have about just shy of 41 miles of gravity, gravity, sewers and. 01:21:31
About 5 miles of force Main forest main is. 01:21:36
Where the lines that were. 01:21:39
Actively pumping the sewer in the direction where? 01:21:41
The direction away from homes. 01:21:45
So in the direction we want. 01:21:48
And then the gravity lines is the obviously the preferred method to convey wastewater? 01:21:50
The largest pipe diameter that we have is 36 inches. 01:21:56
And we have an average depth of about 12 feet. 01:22:00
Of our. 01:22:03
Wastewater complexion. 01:22:05
We do operate 3 lift stations. 01:22:07
For pushing the wastewater and the direction away from homes towards the treatment facilities. 01:22:11
And designed for about 1200 gallons per minute. 01:22:17
On that. So again, this is may not seem important to many people, but this is a lot of the information that goes behind. 01:22:21
Keeping the systems operating and functioning to provide the services. 01:22:27
For our residents. 01:22:31
A majority of our system, originally it was built in 2007. 01:22:33
So in majority the. 01:22:38
Facilities reflecting newer infrastructure conditions. 01:22:40
So again, as the development comes in, we have new systems. 01:22:43
So typically we do have the. 01:22:47
Advantage of. 01:22:50
Newer systems versus age systems. 01:22:52
And which comes when I. 01:22:55
You know, Chris Jackson attest to all the other problems that we have with age systems as well. 01:22:56
These pictures are pictures of our GIS, of our GIS, the city's sewer map where we capture information and track information. 01:23:04
For discharges we. 01:23:15
Have a seasonal, so we do not. We did not have any seasonal peaks. 01:23:17
That was above 100%. 01:23:20
Of our capacity, which is a good thing. 01:23:22
Because we want to keep. 01:23:25
We want to make sure that we're not having overflows. 01:23:27
We have not had to have any sewer bypasses or. 01:23:31
Overflows due to rain or snow melt. 01:23:34
And we have had no sanitary sewer overflows. There's a Class 1 and Class 2. 01:23:37
If you would like to, if you would like, Chris Jackson can. 01:23:42
I'll provide you an explanation to the differences, but this is specifically for the year 2025. 01:23:45
They're already bypassing that we did in 2025 was a planned. 01:23:51
Repair that we've had. 01:23:55
This survey. 01:23:56
Is asking for any. 01:23:58
Unplanned. 01:24:00
Bypassing. 01:24:00
Or overflows that we may have had. 01:24:02
In that planned. 01:24:04
Bypassing we had was for the Main St. roadway repair that we did. 01:24:06
A few months back. 01:24:12
For new development, the big takeaways on here is that we've not have had in the past two years. 01:24:14
Any increased flows more than. 01:24:19
From industrial areas for more than. 01:24:22
Of 10% and then we've not had any major growth. 01:24:26
For the next two or three years, increased flows of. 01:24:29
Is looking at more than 25%. 01:24:33
Again, this is just our projections. 01:24:35
Things may change as we push along. 01:24:37
However, especially for the downtown development that we are constantly. 01:24:41
Having discussions with the downtown developer. 01:24:44
In terms of the sewer collection. 01:24:47
Discussions The infrastructure required in the. 01:24:50
Projected. 01:24:54
Growth as we can see it come on. 01:24:55
Board. So again, this is just a snapshot of our project of our. 01:25:00
Of our estimates of for. 01:25:06
Growth. 01:25:09
For 2025, we had 10 commercial. 01:25:10
Slash industrial connections and 78 residential sewer connections. 01:25:13
Moving on to collection systems. On the collection systems. 01:25:19
So our and this is very important. 01:25:24
For us as a good reminder. 01:25:27
Our collection systems operate in, over and overseen by appropriate certified personnel. 01:25:29
Consistent with the State Opera certification requirements. 01:25:34
So in order to. 01:25:37
Run the system. 01:25:38
If they, our operators are required to have. 01:25:40
Certificate. Certain certifications. 01:25:43
Issued by the state as well as. 01:25:46
Maintain those certifications. 01:25:48
For our population, roughly ±23,000. 01:25:50
People and this is done through our estimated Eru's connections. 01:25:54
And building permits. 01:25:58
We are required to have a Level 3 collection certification. 01:26:00
So that means the direct responsible charge. 01:26:04
DRC. 01:26:06
Who are currently Deputy Pearson and Chris Jackson. 01:26:07
Are certified of at least a Level 3, Level 4 being the highest. 01:26:10
And that's unrestricted. So there are different. 01:26:15
Levels to this SO. 01:26:18
Again, behind the bronze to our wastewater team. There's a lot of brains to it as well. 01:26:20
We do have 6 personnel. 01:26:26
Operators who have certifications. 01:26:28
But this includes our cross strained. 01:26:30
Water operators who are. 01:26:33
Wearing double hats. 01:26:35
To ensure that we provide consistency and redundancy. 01:26:37
In our system. 01:26:40
For a facility maintenance, we do have we maintain an active preventive. 01:26:41
Preventive maintenance program with routine inspections, cleaning and documented tracking. 01:26:46
Again, Chris Jackson can go more into details. 01:26:50
And turns it out. 01:26:53
And our lift stations are in critical assets are regularly maintained as Chris Jackson. 01:26:54
Can attest and talk more about. 01:26:59
Part number 5 We have a sewer system management plan. This was adopted in 2016. 01:27:02
Which is a formal plan. 01:27:07
In place that addresses key elements required by the state. 01:27:10
The plan is implemented and functioning as intended based on our review, with no significant gaps or deficiencies identified. 01:27:13
Again, this was done in 2016 and it would be. 01:27:23
Kosher or. 01:27:26
It would be present for us to go through it again and update it and when we do. 01:27:27
We would do another public noticing for that. 01:27:32
The one item that we. 01:27:34
Have identified as a. 01:27:35
Action item that we would like to push forward with is. 01:27:39
Having a fat oils in grease or what's now also called the fats oil sand the grease program. 01:27:42
To help further protect our collection system so those people, especially around Thanksgiving time. 01:27:48
Residents who dump oil oils down the drain. 01:27:53
One, is it not? It's not only is it damaging. 01:27:56
There are residential pipes. 01:27:59
But it. 01:28:02
You know. 01:28:03
Affect our city. 01:28:05
System and. 01:28:07
Chris Jackson specifically, I just want to give him kudos for him on terms of the bio. 01:28:10
Bacteria, there we go, beneficial bacteria, there we go beneficial bacteria that is used. 01:28:15
Is monitored. The levels are monitored than what's used in order to. 01:28:22
Help reduce the smells but also. 01:28:27
Ensure that the bacteria that greases and baths and so forth in our system. 01:28:30
Are broken down before they go to TSSD. 01:28:34
Specifically SO. 01:28:36
A narrative evaluation. Bottom line. 01:28:41
We feel that there are sewer system is relatively. 01:28:43
Being relatively news in good physical condition. 01:28:46
You know we are currently working on an upgrade to our lift station #2 which is. 01:28:49
Our most north furthest. 01:28:55
Our most northern excuse me lift station, which. 01:28:57
Is where is the lift station that. 01:29:01
Pumps majority of the city's sewer to. 01:29:03
The Typinogus Special Service District. 01:29:07
For treatment. 01:29:10
And that upgrades are larger, larger pumps. 01:29:11
Specifically in order to handle the increased capacity. 01:29:16
Minor operational issues, you know we about Greece buildup and then. 01:29:21
We had. We identified that we replaced. 01:29:25
Sewer line which sagged along Main St. 01:29:28
Which is the bypassing the planned bypassing that we had done. 01:29:31
On that. 01:29:35
We put down the cities, updating the capital facilities plan. It gives us cash, Ansi spoke earlier. 01:29:37
We are constantly reviewing our capital facilities plan a year, year basis to ensure that we're kind of track. 01:29:43
Are we keeping a? 01:29:49
Stop on the pulse. 01:29:51
Of. 01:29:53
You know of our needs and and triggering a review and a new assessment as needed. 01:29:53
And then on here that are developments for the operators are supported through. 01:30:00
Continuing education units. 01:30:06
Funded through our revenue. 01:30:08
That's collected in order to operate our system. 01:30:11
And uh. 01:30:13
We are currently working on a formal policy to do so, but. 01:30:15
Are there are? 01:30:22
Many good. 01:30:24
Continuing Education. 01:30:25
Courses that are offered through the state. 01:30:27
Different programs and we find that now is it. 01:30:30
Beneficial for for our operators to go there to get. 01:30:32
That to check the box. 01:30:35
To ensure that their contained education is being done, but. 01:30:36
It helps great. 01:30:39
Localized area for ideas and operations and maintenance. 01:30:42
The wastewater tree construction, luckily here, is short because the city has no wastewater treatment facilities. 01:30:46
But we just want to identify that. 01:30:54
Our our wastewater is conveyed to to external providers. 01:30:55
One being Timpanogos Special Service District. 01:31:00
In Arm City and on the South. 01:31:03
That provides. 01:31:06
The actual treatment. 01:31:08
That being said, we were able to. 01:31:09
The section of the survey was very short because we sat down. 01:31:11
And we moved on to the last section being adapt and signed. 01:31:14
Section The survey is. 01:31:18
IS was completed by Devon Pearson and Chris Jackson. 01:31:22
I said they were. It was reviewed for accuracy, certified for accuracy by the. 01:31:27
The. 01:31:33
Responsible charge being. 01:31:35
Devin Pearson and Chris Jackson and then the survey must be presented to the City Council, which we were doing, currently doing 01:31:39
today, March 17th, 2026. 01:31:43
At this work session. 01:31:47
And the next step on this survey is that it's that it will be presented for City Council. 01:31:48
For adoption of the survey results. 01:31:54
Which we plan on doing by on March 24th. 01:31:58
As a consent item. 01:32:01
Unless there's a. 01:32:03
Items for it to be pulled off for in discussion. 01:32:04
On that. 01:32:07
Could I ask what would be the purpose of? 01:32:08
Someone on the council pulling something off of the survey. 01:32:10
That seems like there's no. 01:32:14
Purpose in it. 01:32:16
Not necessarily mainly for the fact that I mean everything on the survey is really just a self-assessment on it. So for example, 01:32:17
if we identified and I just say on this, this on a hypothetical if we identified it. 01:32:23
Our revenue. 01:32:29
Is not sufficient to cover our operations and maintenance costs and that we're subsidizing our revenue through general funds, etc. 01:32:30
Than City Council may choose to. 01:32:37
Take. 01:32:40
And make corrective actions before some magnitude states. 01:32:41
And say, you know, we want to make this correction. 01:32:44
On that, typically the answer is no. The state really just wants to ensure. 01:32:48
That there was a formal action being done. 01:32:52
To ensure that the board members. 01:32:54
Which in our case would be the Council members. 01:32:57
Are actively have have been made aware of the findings that we don't submit a self audit. 01:33:00
Saying that there's all these horrible things going on, we are not able to function. 01:33:07
And everything's falling apart. 01:33:11
And then? 01:33:14
The and the City Council or the board of directors. 01:33:16
Have no situational awareness about. 01:33:21
So, OK, thank you. No problem. 01:33:24
So. 01:33:27
March 24th, we'll have it on the on the State Council as a consent item for adoption with a resolution. And once that's done, 01:33:28
we'll submit the we'll submit the survey, the results to the state. And then this is just a picture from last year's. 01:33:35
Municipal wastewater planning program survey. 01:33:42
That was compiled by the state with all the. 01:33:45
Granular data compiled together. 01:33:49
So I would just like to say thank you to Mr. Devin Pearson. 01:33:52
Mr. Chris Jackson, Mr. Evan Smith and. 01:33:56
Miss Monica Wing so. 01:33:59
Water, wastewater division as well as our finance who worked together to get this survey put together every year. 01:34:03
Any questions? And again, Chris Jackson is here that he can provide any. 01:34:09
Detailed information too. Just have one question. Can you walk through what fog is? Do we currently we currently don't have? 01:34:13
That implemented, but that's something that we're looking at doing, yes. So fog, Fog is fast oils in Greece. So not fog like on 01:34:19
airfields I'm used to, which is foreign, foreign objects. 01:34:25
Or probably excuse me. 01:34:31
But. 01:34:33
The so fast models in Greece, it's just the items. So it's your typical like cooking oils paths and such like if you're cooking 01:34:34
bacon on a Sunday morning. 01:34:39
At my home we have a. 01:34:46
Greece Container. 01:34:49
That we put everything into and then put in the trash versus down the drain. So having a program like that then. 01:34:51
Chris, if you would like to do, we would like to speak about the that type of program. 01:34:58
So we are a young city. 01:35:01
Chris Jackson, by the way, we are a young city, so. 01:35:03
A lot of the. 01:35:06
Residents don't know about that dumping. 01:35:07
About oils and grease down the drain. So they do it. We have apartments and stuff like that so it ends up in the city so. 01:35:09
We we try and. 01:35:16
Put out in the newsletter. 01:35:18
Couple times a year, you know, don't dump it, especially around Thanksgiving, you know, so gives people a heads up. A lot of 01:35:20
cities have a lot of problems around all the holidays. 01:35:25
They they actually call it. 01:35:30
Around Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, so because they have a lot of backups because all the fats oils increase. The other 01:35:32
thing we're having troubles with is the flexible wipes. They're really not flushable. They they're woven together, they catch in 01:35:38
snags and pipes and they just. 01:35:43
11 catches and then they all just gather. 01:35:49
So, you know, that's we try and educate. 01:35:52
Couple times a year. 01:35:55
What's flushable? What's not so? 01:35:57
And we do have grinders in our system, right, to try to get as much of some of those things as possible, right? 01:36:00
The the pumped. 01:36:07
So the pumps that lift too, they're, they're a shredder pump and they're designed. 01:36:09
To pull. 01:36:14
Not big clumps, but. 01:36:16
A yd at a time and just shred it. 01:36:18
The flight pumps at Lift 1. 01:36:21
And three. 01:36:23
Are designed to actually pass the rags, so they'll pass it to lift 2 and then lift to a shredded and send it on the timpanogos 01:36:25
where they have a big screen that pulls it out. 01:36:30
Can I ask while you're here, what? 01:36:38
Support. Do you need from the council to keep this stuff running efficiently, Effectively. Do you need any support as far as 01:36:40
things you've identified through the survey? 01:36:44
Just, uh. 01:36:48
Probably a little more staffing, you know, and and. 01:36:50
We try and keep our budget. 01:36:53
Were we think it. 01:36:55
You know, if we have an emergency we don't have to come to council and ask for money. So and if we don't use it every year it just 01:36:57
goes back into the funds so. 01:37:01
OK. Thank you so much. 01:37:06
Any other questions? 01:37:10
I'm good. You good, I'm good. 01:37:12
Ezra, are you good? 01:37:13
I just want to thank you guys, especially for the no. 01:37:17
The no class one or Class 2. 01:37:21
SSL S. 01:37:25
Those are not fun to deal with for residents or. 01:37:26
Anyone so? 01:37:29
We're glad we're not overflowing our systems, backing into people's homes and ruining our. 01:37:32
Ruining our quality of life and property. So thank you so much for your efforts this year on that. 01:37:37
I appreciate that and those instances that we've had those emergency call outs definitely. 01:37:41
The crews jumping into the vac truck. 01:37:47
And getting out there too on a timely matter have been very important. So thank you. 01:37:50
Well, that's it. That's the end of our presentation and we look forward to having the adopted on the March 24th. 01:37:55
Any comments from the public on that? 01:38:02
OK. Thank you, Naseem. 01:38:06
Next up we have item 3.5 Spring Cleanup Initiative. 01:38:10
This is exciting. 01:38:17
Spring clean up. 01:38:20
But to have summer soccer? 01:38:21
And clean yards. 01:38:23
We've got some options to offer residents. 01:38:26
Um, each one with the estimated. 01:38:31
Expenditure. 01:38:34
The dump pass program. 01:38:37
Is what we are recommending. 01:38:39
But there are options for the council to consider. 01:38:43
Do we currently have more options for the Council to consider? 01:38:49
What's that I was asking? Dude, don't we currently have a dump pass? 01:38:53
System right right now. 01:38:57
That's what it has been in the past. In the past, there's been. 01:38:59
Different, uh. 01:39:02
Variations of the program. 01:39:03
Sometimes dump past twice a year. 01:39:06
We they've also or the city is also offered. 01:39:10
Dumpster dumpsters in. 01:39:15
In the parks. 01:39:19
In the parking with. 01:39:22
Public works have facilitated that. 01:39:23
Brian, do you want to comment on that? 01:39:26
Yeah. So we've gone back and forth the last couple years. We were just doing. 01:39:30
Spring and fall cleanups, just that. 01:39:36
Grove Park, where you'd have a number of dumpsters there. 01:39:38
This last year, like David mentioned, we transitioned into the dumpster passes. 01:39:43
Which there is a dump just right close to the public works building. 01:39:49
And so we figured that might be. 01:39:53
Just as easy for people to come to the park as it is to go there. 01:39:56
Maria did a really awesome. 01:40:00
Analysis for us on the numbers. 01:40:02
Um, of just how many passes we used and how much it cost. 01:40:07
Some of the pros of doing. 01:40:13
The Dumpsters at the park is the fact that it is like right here for residents to come dump all of their stuff. 01:40:16
The downside of that is. 01:40:24
Scheduling it around our recreation programs just be. 01:40:28
It limits parking. 01:40:31
But then also it. 01:40:34
It requires. 01:40:36
Personnel time to be there to just keep everything down. 01:40:38
There are some things that you can't dump in the dumpsters and so anytime that happens. 01:40:42
That can cause us extra fees and it's it's kind of a hassle for the parks team to do. They're willing to do it. 01:40:47
Um, but if you include the staff time. 01:40:54
It's estimated that. 01:40:57
The cost would be more expensive to. 01:40:59
Do the dumpster clean up? 01:41:02
Than to do the dumpster pass program. 01:41:04
Go, but we're open to your. 01:41:08
Questions or thoughts or anything? 01:41:11
No, I mean. 01:41:13
It's kind of convenient. We have a big dumb near us and. 01:41:14
I mean I've I've used that before. I know Orem. I think Orem offers a free pass or something or another city does so us doing the 01:41:17
same or? 01:41:21
A smaller fee I think makes sense so. 01:41:25
Sorry, I think the dump pass program. 01:41:28
Expands the offering in such a way where you know you look at previous years where we've had the big dumpsters parked out at. 01:41:31
Vineyard Grove Park. 01:41:40
And those things. 01:41:41
Fill up and then overflow, and then you have residents that just throw stuff on the side of them and leave them in the parking lot 01:41:42
and it just becomes a nightmare. 01:41:46
So I would argue that it. 01:41:50
Gives us more opportunity. 01:41:51
For residents to. 01:41:54
Actually take advantage of the spring cleanup. 01:41:56
I think, yeah, I thought last year, Maria, well done. I mean, the way it's worked and getting the free passes and I do see on 01:42:00
Facebook you're seeing, hey, I don't have a truck. I don't have that truck and. 01:42:05
But I think, I think doing a combination of both the dumpsters and the the passes is the best. I don't, I don't think we want to 01:42:11
stop the passes and just be like, hey, come to our parks and they're a dump station, you know? 01:42:17
Because yeah, bad people put in batteries and tires and the dump is better for like, hey, you can't put that or. 01:42:23
You can put up. You have to put it. 01:42:30
Side and so I think. 01:42:31
Worked well. I don't. I wouldn't. 01:42:33
Suggest any changes. 01:42:35
From last year. 01:42:36
OK, now the next question then. 01:42:38
Do want to do it? 01:42:41
Once this year or twice this year? 01:42:42
I'm curious. 01:42:46
I keep forgetting, is there a financial change? 01:42:49
Yes, I would get $12.00 for each one. 01:42:51
What the financial change was and if. 01:42:54
We could. I don't know if Lyndon. 01:42:56
Will give us a dump. 01:42:58
Pass deal for bulk ordering. I mean that seems. 01:43:00
Weird, but we could always ask. It's always worth asking. I think they already do that. 01:43:04
In the negotiations they're already looking at, I don't know if that's actually true because when I pull up to the dump right now, 01:43:08
it cost me $12.00 to. 01:43:11
Dump off my. 01:43:14
Truckload of stuff. 01:43:16
So if we're paying $12.00 a pass, that's just the retail. 01:43:17
Yeah, it's retail. 01:43:20
It's the pasture costs. We're their friends. 01:43:22
I don't know, maybe we can make a deal with them somehow. 01:43:26
Give them something. 01:43:29
I wish there was more. 01:43:30
Competition. And then you could have I'll sign A and a. 01:43:31
That is so with those 12, the most economical way of doing it. Did the city pay for that $12.00 for every single one? 01:43:37
Yes, except for we did not. Maria or Brian can speak to this. We did not. 01:43:43
Give it. 01:43:50
Everyone. It was only given to those outside of an HOA. Yeah. So how it was done in the previous year? 01:43:51
Was that anybody who was a homeowner? 01:43:58
Was get it and we didn't do it for HOA's or apartments. The reason for that was because. 01:44:01
Most of the time these hoys or apartments already have giant dumpsters on site so we didn't see the reason to do that and just to 01:44:06
make it a cost effective thing. 01:44:11
So in the previous year we saw 313 people go to the dump and so that was $3756 that we paid out. 01:44:15
Because it was still kind of a transitionary period, we still did a spring dumpster. 01:44:25
In the park, just to kind of. 01:44:30
Help with people who weren't. 01:44:31
You know knew or didn't know about the program or went unaware. 01:44:33
So what we were looking at is. 01:44:37
Whether we wanted to do the same thing where we do just a spring? 01:44:39
Dumpster. 01:44:42
And then also do the dump passes. 01:44:43
Or just do dumped passes all around. 01:44:46
With that, we could either open it up to the HOA's and apartments. 01:44:48
And it is a $12.00. 01:44:52
Cost to the city. 01:44:54
Every time somebody goes over there and does a dump pass, how it was done before is there is a postcard that has two punches on 01:44:56
it. 01:44:59
And the. 01:45:03
Keep track of the home to make sure that nobody's going in and. 01:45:05
Going in four times if their neighbor doesn't use it or anything like that. 01:45:07
But the cost difference is pretty substantial for. 01:45:12
Just spring cleaning alone if we did it in the dumpster. 01:45:16
The dumpsters in the park. 01:45:18
It was going to come out to $4112. That's with the dumpsters pickup and staff time. 01:45:20
So that's just once. 01:45:26
If we do both. 01:45:27
It's about 8 grand. 01:45:29
A little over 8 grand. 01:45:30
As we're. 01:45:31
The dump passes alone were 3700 so. 01:45:33
It's that's what we're kind of wondering if it's really up to you guys if we want to just do the dump passes. That's amazing 01:45:36
because it does save us a lot of money. 01:45:39
On whether you want to keep it to where it is, where it's. 01:45:43
Excluding HOA's and apartments. 01:45:46
Or if you want to add a choice and apartments to that. 01:45:48
I'm curious about looking into as well. 01:45:51
For example, when I lived in Lehigh we would get a punch card we could go pick up from City Hall every year and that punch card 01:45:54
gave you like 5 dump passes a year. 01:45:58
I'm curious and that was a free. 01:46:02
Well, when I get free, I mean free to the resident. 01:46:04
I'm curious if. 01:46:07
We could do something like that or talk to them about that kind of pricing for a punch card. Then you're essentially able to 01:46:08
expand the service and potentially still and that is what we could do. We did too just to kind of do the from my understanding 01:46:13
because that wasn't me at the time. 01:46:18
It was to offset the spring and fall cleanup. That's why we did too. 01:46:24
We could essentially add more passes, but it is going to be the $12.00 every time that something goes different. So I'm curious 01:46:29
about if we can negotiate the pricing a little bit, but I'm also curious about if we can. 01:46:34
Structure a deal in such a way where. 01:46:40
Hey, we have these passes. 01:46:42
Come pick him up and then we'll just pay them every time we issue a pass. 01:46:46
That way we're not actually incurring an expense unless it's being used by the resident. 01:46:50
Correct. And that is how it is. So they don't charge us until they do essentially the following. 01:46:54
The previous month is when they track, they add up everything that's been OK. So they assess based on what what they've tracked. 01:47:00
Yeah. So they they have they sent us in what was used so like. 01:47:05
In January there was only 18 passes redeemed, so they only charged us 216. The following month it was 31. So they only do it based 01:47:10
on how many times people go. They don't charge us. 01:47:14
Beforehand they just charge us per usage. 01:47:19
OK. Which fund does this get funded out of? Is this a general fund expense? 01:47:21
OK. 01:47:26
I will have to check on that. 01:47:28
I would lean on, I would lean on not doing the dumpster because it's a cost whether it's full or not full, right, correct. Yeah, 01:47:30
it's the larger cost and the the 8000. 01:47:34
For doing both its 8225 that doesn't include. 01:47:40
The cost for dumping itself, That's just for. 01:47:45
Republic Services to bring the dumpsters right and do that we would still have to then they would weigh it out at the dump. And 01:47:48
what you're saying is that we could use it twice as much for the same cost if it's just yeah, so like. 01:47:54
You could give. 01:48:00
Four passes instead of 2, correct? Yeah. 01:48:01
Like nobody's gonna take 4, so it's or you could have them at the office when somebody complaints on social media. 01:48:03
Stop by and grab a pass. 01:48:09
Great. Yeah. And that that is how Jenna was previously doing it. She had it extra passes so that either she or one like Janice, 01:48:11
the receptionist could go up and and handle it to a resident and sign it out. 01:48:17
OK. I would definitely do that policy of just like. 01:48:22
Because then you you could just say. 01:48:26
If you needed three through the year. 01:48:28
Then just stop by the City Hall during our office hours and. 01:48:30
And if we had an amount? 01:48:32
Yeah, previously it was just like a postcard that had two dumps. 01:48:35
Or two punches on it. We could essentially change it to one punch. 01:48:38
Or we could just give one out like I said the the dumps. 01:48:42
We'll keep track of it. Once you give your address, they are going to. 01:48:45
Make sure that you're not going in and. 01:48:48
Taking them from your neighbors or going into the City Hall and getting extras. 01:48:50
Out of curiosity, why do they care about that? 01:48:55
For example, if Jake doesn't use his third or second punch. 01:48:57
Why can't I use his punch? 01:49:00
It probably I think it's just to maintain. 01:49:02
To ensure that you're not getting the cost isn't exceeding like if you have someone going in a lot more, coming in multiple times, 01:49:04
you could have a business like a landscaper going, hey, I'm hitting this 12 times over and over. Yeah, it's just to kind of 01:49:10
regulate it and make sure that we're not going, yeah, a little overboard on the cost. 01:49:16
Using somebody else's past without their permission, right? Yeah. 01:49:22
So now I would I would recommend getting rid of the dumpster and just. 01:49:25
Advocating on when somebody brings up a dumpster. Stop by City Hall. If you need an extra 1, let us know. Yeah, and that's for 01:49:30
sure what? 01:49:34
We were recommending. We just wanted to get. 01:49:38
Feedback from the Council, just from. 01:49:41
Brian and Preston standpoint with Parks is if they were going to do the dumpsters, they needed to order them soon, so they just 01:49:43
wanted to make sure and we were all on the same page. 01:49:47
Now I just say well done. 01:49:51
The whole thing last year was really good and I heard. 01:49:53
Positive thing. So I think getting rid of the dumpsters is the transition year has been done and. 01:49:55
And uh. 01:50:01
But I would just be really proactive, especially if us as a council members like, oh, just stop by City Hall, we can forward them 01:50:02
to you guys and. 01:50:06
They'll love it. 01:50:10
Just the same, I mean, if they're getting it into a vehicle to get it to a park there. 01:50:11
Getting it in a vehicle to. 01:50:15
Take it to the. 01:50:17
North instead of wherever you know it's not that far away. 01:50:18
So why have a staging? 01:50:21
So do you want one? 01:50:24
Or two passes. 01:50:26
I would stay the same as two. I would. I prefer two. You give them a spring and the fall. Or you know, they use it whenever they 01:50:27
want to use it, but that's essentially what it is. 01:50:31
OK. Thank you. 01:50:36
I'm on here. You mentioned that. 01:50:41
Are not located within the HOA, I think water's edges. 01:50:43
Still including that are some Hoas. 01:50:47
Because I know I live in water's edge and still get a. 01:50:49
Still going to pass, but do we want to look at expanding that to the apartments Well. 01:50:52
I feel like that might be let's let's ask the clarifying question then. 01:50:56
Just the sub HOA's that you're referencing because when you say water's edge, you encompass 80% of. 01:51:00
Residents in Vineyard and just one where we do allow it just because. 01:51:05
Realistically, they are in a subway, but they are, they don't have those big exemptions. They don't all they all of them don't 01:51:11
have clubhouses. 01:51:15
Where they have those big numbers as well. So we did include that. 01:51:19
OK, you good with that Ezra? 01:51:22
And yeah, and on the financing, I believe this is paid out of the sanitation fee that's on the utility bill. 01:51:23
So. 01:51:30
I think right now we give the passes out to everybody who pays into that utility bill so that. 01:51:32
Everyone's contributing is getting. 01:51:37
The benefit of it? 01:51:39
So if we want to expand that, we should look at how we're financing that as well. 01:51:41
Just doing what we've currently been doing is good and getting rid of the dumpsters. 01:51:48
OK, unless there's public comments, we'll move on to 3.6. Daria, you want to come up? 01:51:54
OK. 01:51:59
Daria Evans Villas resident I wonder if that will also include the villas? 01:52:05
Community, we do not have a dumpster. 01:52:09
So if we could get dumpster past the dump passes that would be great. 01:52:13
Yeah, I, I don't see why not. I think that'd be great, yeah. 01:52:17
We're in. 01:52:21
You guys have your trash down through this the Republic Services or do you have a different provider? 01:52:26
We have a different provider. 01:52:32
She said different provider. 01:52:33
OK, OK. 01:52:34
Yeah, we probably want to look at doing that. 01:52:37
Across the board, then if we're going to bring in people that aren't paying into the. 01:52:39
Utility fee. 01:52:44
That would be my suggestion is. 01:52:45
If we want to make this a general. 01:52:47
Fund expense for well. 01:52:50
I'm curious too then. I mean, if we're going to go down the rabbit hole, let's look at. 01:52:52
If they're not already paying into that fee. 01:52:55
Can we assess A1 time fee when they come to want to pick up a pass and say hey look it's. 01:52:58
10 bucks, 12 bucks, whatever. 01:53:04
If it's 12 they can just go to the dump and pay the 12, correct? But if we're already paying the retail fee anyways. 01:53:07
Yeah. 01:53:13
There's no reason for them to pick up a pass if it's 12 bucks because. 01:53:16
They just have to pay that at the. 01:53:20
They dump anyway if they're going there, so. 01:53:21
Yes, but we also don't want to incentivize losing money. 01:53:24
So if it costs us $12.00. 01:53:28
You don't want to give a resident a pass for less than $12.00. 01:53:31
Yeah, the residents don't pay unless. 01:53:36
So like the punch cards when you go to the dump, the dump tracks how many Vineyard residents? 01:53:39
Dump and then they charge us. 01:53:43
There's no expense for us to. 01:53:45
Issue passes. 01:53:48
Except for when they use it and we get charged. So you don't want to give a pass to somebody. 01:53:49
For less than $12.00. 01:53:54
Yes, and I would argue that. 01:53:59
You don't want to give a pass to somebody for $12.00 because they can just go to the dump without having to come into the city. 01:54:01
We're not in the business of the dump. 01:54:05
Are we don't want to generate revenue off of that? 01:54:09
We're trying to provide a service to a resident based on a fee that they pay, and if they don't pay the fee, we need to break even 01:54:12
on it. 01:54:15
Yeah, so. 01:54:21
So it's either the dump charges us $12.00. 01:54:23
A resident who comes in and gets a pass. 01:54:26
Or the resident pays. 01:54:28
Pay directly to the dump and. 01:54:33
Instead of paying the city correct. 01:54:35
I'm saying don't. 01:54:39
Don't issue pre passes. 01:54:40
It's either we issue free passes and choose to subsidize that. 01:54:42
Or if we're going to charge $12.00, don't even have the passes. 01:54:45
Because they can just go to the dump and pay the $12.00. 01:54:48
And that it's not costing the city residents? Yes. 01:54:51
Okay. 01:54:58
We get to move on to 3.6, which is Operation Neighborhood Shield, yes. 01:55:03
The question I was asking is, do we want to subsidize that for? 01:55:09
Residents who aren't paying into the sanitation fee. 01:55:13
No. 01:55:16
Basically the question. 01:55:17
I don't think so. 01:55:19
Keep it the same and not include the villas. 01:55:21
If they want. 01:55:24
The. 01:55:26
We should. 01:55:27
At least. 01:55:28
Break even on the pass. 01:55:29
That is my point. 01:55:31
So if we can talk to the dump. 01:55:33
And we can get away with $10. 01:55:36
Then we can offer it to them at $10 and they save $2.00 and that's a great deal. 01:55:39
And if we can't? 01:55:43
Then we should at least charge what it costs us. 01:55:46
To break even. 01:55:49
Yeah. We're not in the garbage business. We're not in the subsidizing garbage business. 01:55:51
We're not in the waste removal business. 01:55:55
We do this nice service one time, yeah. 01:55:59
On that before we move. 01:56:03
You have to try to get a discount. 01:56:05
I I believe that we have already done that. 01:56:08
Pretty thoroughly. 01:56:11
Yeah. 01:56:12
On the topic of. 01:56:14
This is more generally staff. 01:56:17
On the topic of. 01:56:20
Spring cleanup. Earth Day beach cleanup. 01:56:22
Has the lake authority. 01:56:24
Reached out on doing anything. Here we are we. 01:56:26
I know where. 01:56:30
Ty, I haven't seen anything. 01:56:31
Is anyone leading that up? 01:56:32
Not putting pressure if we are not. 01:56:35
If we're not this year because we're in a transitional year. 01:56:37
And the lake authority is usually. 01:56:41
LED that and then we kind of. 01:56:42
Come on with staff, right? 01:56:45
But I hadn't seen anything. 01:56:47
I know we have a lot of garbage on the lake. I was walking there. Yeah, I know. The initial plan is to still do a lake cleanup. 01:56:55
But Utah Lake Authority. 01:57:01
They didn't have the plans to donate again this year. They're happy to help if we do a cleanup. 01:57:03
But they wouldn't be. 01:57:08
Giving any funds to. 01:57:10
Do plants or anything like that, right? They're not doing, Yeah, they're not doing a planting thing that they did last year. 01:57:12
Yeah, by the way, I don't know if those plans. 01:57:18
Were successful at growing. 01:57:20
I've walked along there, it hasn't been very but. 01:57:22
Is it OK? I know this is an agenda item but it's a working session. 01:57:28
Do we want a staff? 01:57:32
Wanting to do something is is that? Is that the idea? 01:57:33
Is there a leadership behind it or is it just? 01:57:37
So that was. 01:57:39
So that was one of the events. 01:57:40
That we've done the past. 01:57:42
That we've looked at, but. 01:57:46
Once again, as Brian said. 01:57:48
We had third party support, right? 01:57:50
And, umm. 01:57:54
If we. 01:57:55
Do it? We probably want to scale it back in terms of like in the past, we've paid for T-shirts and right. 01:57:56
And things that are. 01:58:05
Not. 01:58:06
Really about. 01:58:08
Cleanup. 01:58:09
I guess, is that right? We could probably do a big volunteer. 01:58:11
Activity out on the lake probably encourage young men, young women. 01:58:15
Religious. 01:58:19
Institutions to get involved in. 01:58:20
Clean it up. 01:58:22
Conservative Utah Valley is a very strong organization that. 01:58:25
In the past has wanted to do it, but they've worked in conjunction with the Lake Authority. 01:58:29
But I've asked them like what? 01:58:34
You've done things in Lehigh. Just them. 01:58:36
And why haven't you done it? And they said we just haven't been asked. So if there isn't like a lead person. 01:58:39
Would we be opposed to having a lead person in US? 01:58:45
Supporting it was great to work with a third party and let them lead and we're. 01:58:48
And to help us support yes. 01:58:53
OK, I'll reach out and. 01:58:55
I know we're going to be learning on our interfaith. 01:58:57
Thursday. 01:59:00
Seeing how many volunteers and different organizations of service projects of. 01:59:02
And so if there's an appetite to get. 01:59:06
Support through that, maybe I'll bring it back to if that's OK. 01:59:09
I don't love. 01:59:13
Dude, you go out and clean the lake. It's there's a special spirit out there. It's awesome. When you get out there, you're just 01:59:15
like. 01:59:18
I wish I was doing this all the time and someone that does the cleanup. 01:59:21
Annually. 01:59:24
All you got to do is do it once and you fall in love with it. 01:59:26
So and Vineyard we. 01:59:29
Because of the. 01:59:32
The winds. 01:59:33
From uh. 01:59:34
West to east. 01:59:36
All of the stuff always comes to our beach, not Saratoga, so we always say thank you for all the. 01:59:38
Things that fall in the lake, they always come our side and it's fun to gather that so. 01:59:43
Thanks, Saratoga. 01:59:48
Retouch on that in. 01:59:49
3.7. 01:59:52
When we talk about volunteerism. 01:59:53
OK. Are we good to move on to 3.6, which is Operation Neighborhood Shield? 01:59:55
Yes, No, nobody's objecting. David, would you like to make a comment? 02:00:00
Please come on up. 02:00:05
I love these working sessions where we just get a talk. 02:00:09
They're great. Me too. 02:00:11
David Pierce, Cascade Neighborhood. 02:00:13
I want to say. 02:00:16
That for us. 02:00:17
The light cleanup is really a neat event. 02:00:18
Right. 02:00:21
What we experience. 02:00:24
Is families. 02:00:26
Coming in with bags, little kids. 02:00:28
And they're excited. 02:00:31
This I picked that. 02:00:33
And it's just a great. 02:00:35
Community event. 02:00:37
And it's really neat so to have a T-shirt. 02:00:38
You know, that's kind of yeah. 02:00:43
Yeah, we're here. We're part of this group. 02:00:44
So. 02:00:47
I personally, I would be a strong supporter of that. 02:00:49
And to your point. 02:00:53
I think we owe a debt of gratitude. 02:00:54
To Saratoga Springs for giving us a great opportunity to clean. I'll tell the mayor. 02:00:57
The other. 02:01:05
The other point is. 02:01:06
I pay into. 02:01:07
The fund that. 02:01:09
That helps. 02:01:10
With trash and and. 02:01:12
And. 02:01:14
Picking thing and. 02:01:17
Trash removal and. 02:01:20
That sort of thing. 02:01:22
And I don't know as a taxpayer. 02:01:23
As much as I love. 02:01:27
Want to subsidize someone else? 02:01:29
Who doesn't pay? 02:01:32
Into that fund. 02:01:33
Right. So I just. 02:01:35
Want to make that? 02:01:36
Thank you. 02:01:38
Yeah, you make that point. 02:01:39
OK. We're moving on to Operation Neighborhood Shield. 02:01:42
This is exciting, David. 02:01:46
Teach me all about operation neighborhood shield. Teach you all well so this comes from public this idea comes from public 02:01:47
feedback and the direction the council is given to the mayor to. 02:01:53
Enforce parking and occupancy. 02:01:59
Especially in the areas of Lechonte. Did I get that right? Lemonade. It's Frenchman. I'm not French. 02:02:03
English, not French. Bridgeport and the garden not the gardens. 02:02:12
So yeah. 02:02:18
OK, so. 02:02:19
What we've if everyone if you have the document. 02:02:21
Pulled up. 02:02:25
Or if you've reviewed it in the past. 02:02:27
And Jesse, are you there? 02:02:29
He's finding his mute button. 02:02:33
So. 02:02:35
Yes, just making sure. So you'll probably want to comment on this. We need. So the first phase of this program is doing an 02:02:37
ordinance review. 02:02:41
We need to work together with. 02:02:46
Legal. 02:02:52
And our wonderful chief here next to me. 02:02:53
And of course, wonderful legal as well. 02:02:56
To make sure that we have the proper. 02:02:58
Ordinances for these three areas and that they're. 02:03:02
They're fine-tuned for. 02:03:05
What's the right word? 02:03:11
Yes, for enforcement purposes. 02:03:14
So we're just. 02:03:17
Basically it's a simple review. 02:03:18
And it's also about reviewing our towing ordinances and. 02:03:20
The company or companies we want to go with and the methodology that we want to use in terms of parking passes. 02:03:26
So we will be critically looking at those areas. 02:03:34
And looking at maximum occupancy limits. 02:03:40
What are illegal rental definitions are? 02:03:44
And of course. 02:03:47
Evidence for code enforcement actions. 02:03:49
Necessary evidence. 02:03:53
I don't know who wants to go first on this, So what we'll do is we'll be bringing necessary changes or recommended changes to the 02:03:59
council. 02:04:03
For review and a vote. 02:04:08
Awesome. 02:04:10
When would you expect? 02:04:11
To have those draft changes available for review. 02:04:13
We want to have them by the end of the month. 02:04:16
Solve 15 days. 02:04:18
So it would be really quick. 02:04:20
For just the citizens to know. 02:04:24
We've been gathering hundreds of citizens feedback and we want to hear more of it. 02:04:28
I know I've directed them all to Jacob Wood because he's kind of been the leading HOA parking guru and given that assignment. 02:04:35
But. 02:04:42
It's really been helpful. 02:04:43
To learn about every neighborhood challenge and distinction. 02:04:45
And culture that is in. 02:04:50
Each each needed neighborhood. 02:04:52
And it is time consuming but. 02:04:55
Because it. 02:04:57
Is so nuanced it makes the plan better. 02:04:58
So for citizens listening in it. 02:05:02
Engage. Get involved like. 02:05:04
Tell us about it There's. 02:05:07
There's so many intricate details of. 02:05:09
Each neighbor, it's just every neighborhood is so unique. 02:05:13
And so. 02:05:16
Yeah. The thing that I would give staff is. 02:05:17
In they're doing a good job. 02:05:20
I mean, I have full faith in David Kyle. 02:05:23
And also the attorney in. 02:05:26
In organizing all of this and. 02:05:28
Maria and all of them have done a good job so. 02:05:30
So that is a great segue into phase two of the plan, which is the public awareness campaign. 02:05:33
Which will include reaching out to residents for. 02:05:40
Input. 02:05:43
And that is not just input, but also communication with residents, including distribution of door hangers and informational 02:05:45
Flyers. 02:05:49
The information Flyers are going to be oversized. 02:05:55
For attention. 02:05:59
Purposes. 02:06:00
Patrol during this time of public awareness. 02:06:02
And putting out Flyers and door hangers will also have an increase in patrol vehicles. 02:06:05
Visibility and citations for illegal parking so. 02:06:11
We will. 02:06:16
We will basically gradually roll out this process. There will be a noticeable increase. 02:06:18
And hopefully that. 02:06:24
Gets. 02:06:26
Residents attention and gets their feedback so that we can quickly. 02:06:28
Fine tune and modify this program as we move towards full rollout. 02:06:33
Residents will also be encouraged to report concerns through. 02:06:39
A new initiation. A new. 02:06:44
See something Say Something campaign. 02:06:47
Basically this will be going out with of course the. 02:06:50
Flyers and the door hangers, but also on social media. 02:06:54
I've also spoken with Councilmember Wood. 02:07:00
And council member Holdaway about communication with residents. 02:07:04
On from a door to door perspective and and getting. 02:07:08
Feedback. A lot of times residents don't know. 02:07:12
What's happening unless you knock on their door? 02:07:16
So this is going to, this is not just going to be a staff. 02:07:18
This part of the program. 02:07:24
Is not just going to be staff but it's also going to need the support of the council in. 02:07:26
Door knocking. 02:07:31
And getting feedback. 02:07:32
Yeah, and that will also help with public relations as well. 02:07:33
Making sure that this rolls out smoothly. 02:07:39
Phase 3 will start in April, the beginning of April. 02:07:42
During this this is our. 02:07:46
Basically our our notice period where we're going to get more aggressive with our. 02:07:49
Our Flyers and door hangers. There's going to be multiple rounds of Flyers and door hangers. 02:07:53
So. 02:07:59
So there's multiple aspects. 02:08:01
And reasons for doing. 02:08:05
One is is to make sure that everybody in the house sees that if there is over occupancy in the house. 02:08:07
Not just one roommate will see it, but. 02:08:13
Potentially will have multiple roommates seeing these handouts, Flyers and door hangers and potentially mailers. 02:08:17
This will. 02:08:24
This will also. 02:08:30
Include collecting. 02:08:33
Evidence and beginning investigations so. 02:08:36
While we're collect, while we're collecting information from residents and why we're putting up all of the door hangers and the. 02:08:42
Flyers, we're going to be getting a lot of information from residents that we're going to be using it to present our cases. 02:08:49
So I can imagine as the City Council, you're knocking on doors, you're talking with neighbors, you're not only getting feedback. 02:08:55
But you're getting. 02:09:03
Potential evidence that could be used in the future. So making sure we have proper documentation is going to be critical and a 02:09:04
little training for all of us is going to be required. 02:09:10
So we plan on at the same time in April, we're going to be checking public rental listings. 02:09:18
I mentioned neighborhood complaints and we we get those in multiple and multiple ways and sources. 02:09:25
And then of course, property visits by officers I've talked with and David and Councilmember David Larae have we've sat down with 02:09:31
Chief Holden. 02:09:35
About property visits. 02:09:39
And if we do find that there's a. 02:09:42
Potential problem. 02:09:45
That officers are willing to go over and knock on the door and see if we can. 02:09:47
Get someone to. 02:09:52
Admit that there's multiple people living at the residence. 02:09:56
So do you want to speak to that? 02:09:59
I mean, we're willing. Most of the time, most of these complaints come with parking complaints. And so there's been in the past 02:10:04
where we've gone out and knocked on the door and hey, you guys got too many parked cars parked here. 02:10:08
Who lives here? 02:10:12
You know, I mean, and then we can gather some information there. So we have some. 02:10:13
Some data on. 02:10:17
We got five people living here. 02:10:18
So and then we can use that as evidence if we were able to. 02:10:20
You know, get that information from whoever we speak with. 02:10:23
So you know. 02:10:25
I would just like to say. 02:10:28
That it's important. 02:10:30
That people. 02:10:31
That our staff understands. 02:10:33
That. 02:10:35
They have done a fantastic job over the past couple years. 02:10:36
In implementing the policy that the previous Council. 02:10:41
Implemented. 02:10:44
And that they are not held accountable for that. 02:10:46
Policy. 02:10:48
That makes sense. 02:10:50
Like they're sometimes criticism to staff. 02:10:51
Of saying oh this is so bad. 02:10:55
Well, that's the policy that they were given and so like. 02:10:58
Now, with the new council giving a different directive. 02:11:02
It's not like hey, staff were bad and we're now. 02:11:06
Changing our staff have always been great, it's just. 02:11:10
And even I'm not saying the previous counselor bad people. It's just a different philosophy. 02:11:13
And I'd like to articulate that policy so that. 02:11:18
Staff know, but also. 02:11:22
Residents know. 02:11:24
This is not an infringement on property rights. 02:11:26
When somebody buys a home. 02:11:29
They have the right. 02:11:31
And they know when they buy it how many people can live in the home. 02:11:33
It's actually an infringement on their neighbors. 02:11:37
Rights to have access to the same public Rd. because they're going above and beyond. 02:11:40
What their right is given? 02:11:46
Following the state code and policy is protecting everyone and we don't want to infringe on somebody's right of like, hey, if they 02:11:49
can have 4. 02:11:53
Unique individuals into a home. 02:11:57
We're not going to infringe upon that. 02:11:59
Specific but. 02:12:01
In those instances where they go above and beyond. 02:12:03
Their legal right and are using it. That's where we want. 02:12:06
And that is showing kindness to our neighbors. 02:12:10
By not. 02:12:14
Breaking city code. 02:12:15
And whatnot. And so if we're going to have a code. 02:12:17
I believe, and I'm not speaking for the whole council, is. 02:12:20
We don't want to lose our neighborhood because we're just allowing. 02:12:24
Bad actors. 02:12:28
That. 02:12:29
Are going above and beyond that code and infringing on the kindness of others of saying. 02:12:30
And I think that's what we've heard is these neighborhoods are saying. 02:12:36
We're getting. 02:12:39
We're getting our right to. 02:12:41
Access the equal access to these public roads or private roads. 02:12:42
Infringed upon because. 02:12:47
City code isn't being current. City code isn't being. 02:12:49
Enforced if I'm. 02:12:53
But I just want to say thank you to. 02:12:54
Our staff in. 02:12:56
Navigating the changing structure and policy and understanding how much we love them and care about them. 02:12:59
And and the. 02:13:06
The lift in changing public. 02:13:09
Policy is is difficult, so there will be some. 02:13:11
Some blowback and we're going to have to be out educating. 02:13:15
And. 02:13:19
Well, the second thing that I would say to. 02:13:19
David Kyle. 02:13:22
Getting out. 02:13:24
In meeting with the neighborhood. 02:13:25
And making sure that that neighborhood has a specific plan and that they're owning that plan. 02:13:27
And that citizens get involved as a group. 02:13:34
And coming to Councilman Wood, we've had. 02:13:37
Quite a lot of great meetings. Where? 02:13:40
You know, Councilman would have sat him down and said, OK, this isn't our plan, this is your plan, this is your neighborhood. 02:13:43
Does everyone in the neighborhood agree with this or can we get a consensus now? You're not going to get 100%. 02:13:49
But making sure that OK walking out of this meeting. 02:13:55
These are the details because there's a lot of tools in the toolbox. Is this the specific plan that your neighborhood needs 02:13:59
implemented here? And so I would just submit to the citizens. 02:14:05
Make sure you're involved with the leadership group of each neighborhood. 02:14:10
In designing the. 02:14:16
The right plan and policy for you. 02:14:17
So can I ask and maybe you're about to address it? 02:14:20
In your continued presentation here. 02:14:23
But let's say in this phase of error. 02:14:26
Your operation. 02:14:28
Deputy goes, knocks on a door. 02:14:30
They say, yeah, we've got 12 college kids living in this house. 02:14:32
What is the next step? 02:14:36
So I was just about to get into supporting evidence. Let's go. 02:14:38
That I mean. 02:14:45
The Segway into. 02:14:47
Chief Holden's remarks. Deputy Chief Holden's remarks. 02:14:50
Is. 02:14:53
The collection and. 02:14:54
Go ahead. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 02:14:57
Maria, Maria, that's right. I was going to say that. And I'm like. 02:15:00
Am I gonna get it wrong? Maria can go into the detail she has. 02:15:03
Been educating me about what we need. 02:15:08
And in order to be able to do enforcement. So go ahead, Maria. 02:15:11
Yeah, so for all the new council members that don't know, I do code enforcement, I am the cities code enforcement officer. 02:15:14
With kind of any case occupancy. 02:15:22
Parking, anything like that. 02:15:26
The way that I'm looking at it, as the code enforcement officers, I'm looking to build a legal case. 02:15:27
That's just kind of the standard. 02:15:33
Is that? 02:15:35
You're trying to make it so that if for whatever reason, you go to a judge. 02:15:36
You're going to win. 02:15:41
That's the goal is you want as a city. 02:15:42
To find enough evidence to make sure that if you go in and say hey, this person's out of compliance. 02:15:44
This is the reason why the biggest issue with occupancy. 02:15:49
Is the lack of evidence that I received so while people might submit a home multiple times and say. 02:15:53
You know I'm their neighbor. I've been their neighbor for 10 plus years. I know that there are 6 people living in the home. I 02:15:59
don't doubt that you know that you're always going to know who's living next to you. 02:16:03
The issue is is that they don't have anything to show me that. 02:16:08
A lot of it is just well, there's cars parked outside, there's the same 5 cars parked outside. 02:16:11
And while that is. 02:16:16
A sign that's not something that we would consider substantial evidence. Reason for that is because people can have people 02:16:18
visiting, someone can have multiple cars. 02:16:22
You might. 02:16:27
Meet someone who's in their 20s who just so happens to. 02:16:29
Have three cars and their roommates all have one car, so you're going to get an extra amount. 02:16:31
Along with. 02:16:37
You get people who lie and that's. 02:16:39
Not a fun thing to say. You never want to say that people are going to lie to your face. 02:16:41
But that is how it is. 02:16:44
So what I'm looking for a lot of the time is either. 02:16:46
Text message evidence. 02:16:49
Conversation that was recorded and or they can sign an affidavit saying that I did have this conversation. 02:16:51
We're either a tenant or a landlord. 02:16:57
Property management. 02:17:00
Yeah, we have 6 people living in the home. We have five guys over here. 02:17:01
And then that is where I can go in and say, look, I've been presented evidence that you do have. 02:17:07
An over occupancy issue. 02:17:12
You can either submit. 02:17:14
Proof that you're not. 02:17:16
And that they were mistaken. 02:17:17
Or. 02:17:19
You need to come into compliance. 02:17:20
Whether that be. 02:17:22
They give me. 02:17:24
A time frame that they're going to come into compliance. My goal is never to kick anyone out. 02:17:25
That's kind of my big thing. I don't want to. 02:17:29
Especially because a lot of the time these are college kids. You never want to say hey you got to leave in 2 a days, figure it 02:17:31
out. 02:17:33
And legally, you just cannot. You cannot. 02:17:36
Give someone a 2 day notice. You have to give the minimum of 30 days. 02:17:38
Can I ask, do you actually have the ability to kick somebody out if you? Yeah, OK. So. 02:17:42
So that's not something that any city is going to do. There's never going to be an eviction process. 02:17:47
The sheriff's aren't going to go out and do an eviction process. 02:17:52
The goal is to get the owner of the home to do that and that is their responsibility, so. 02:17:55
I give a timeframe. I say. 02:18:01
Here's two weeks to either provide me evidence that you're in compliance. 02:18:02
Or to give me a time frame that you're going to come into compliance. So if someone says OK I'm going to give them a 30 day 02:18:06
notice, can I have till the end of next month? 02:18:10
I'll say OK, and I'll check in on that at that time. 02:18:14
The But like I said, the biggest thing is we're going to need something that shows that, whether it's. 02:18:18
Conversation. 02:18:23
Recording, uh. 02:18:25
The tenant just acknowledging it. I've had people where they have. 02:18:26
Community group chats. 02:18:29
And the like, the tenant accidentally says like, Oh yeah, the downstairs tenant and me. 02:18:32
And that shows that there's multiple tenants in the home. 02:18:37
If the leases, yeah, I've I've gone people who get their neighbors leases. 02:18:42
And submit that to me to show that they are out of compliance. I'm not sure how they're getting it. 02:18:46
But you know, if they can achieve it, they can do it. 02:18:51
Well, as real estate. 02:18:54
How How would you gather evidence is just taking a screenshot of the listing? 02:18:56
Airbnbs are difficult because state law is very strict on what? 02:19:00
A code enforcement officer can and can't do to enforce. 02:19:04
And that's gotten a little bit better with the last season. 02:19:07
Or the last legislative season, I should say. 02:19:10
Previously you couldn't use a listing at all. 02:19:12
Didn't matter whether I saw it myself, if someone sent it to me, we were not allowed to use the listing. 02:19:15
As evidence. 02:19:20
That changed the last legislative season to where we can use the listening. 02:19:22
As long as we have supporting. 02:19:25
Evidence, so that has to be someone reporting it in our case. 02:19:28
So if someone doesn't report the Airbnb, I unfortunately just can't go after it while I'm aware that they're all there and I have 02:19:32
a list of everybody who has one. 02:19:35
I usually have to wait until someone submits a concern so citizen can like take a picture of the house, take a picture of the 02:19:39
listing and then just e-mail it to you and then yeah, so they can submit it through the report a concern portal on the website. 02:19:44
That goes directly to me and the planning department. 02:19:51
Usually cash. 02:19:54
As well, but. 02:19:56
That'll be so that I can look at it. 02:19:57
Once that is sent to me, then I can go after it and say, look, I know that you have an Airbnb. 02:20:00
The state's just very strict on. 02:20:06
If you don't have it, you can't use it. 02:20:07
So even if I were, I have a list of everybody I know who's doing it. 02:20:10
If I don't have a complaint, I can't legally go after it until I have supporting evidence. 02:20:14
And so that usually is going to be the complaint. 02:20:19
OK, I still want to run this down the rabbit hole a little bit. Just. 02:20:23
Just for understanding clarity, get everything on the record type stuff. 02:20:26
So let's say deputy goes knocks on the door. 02:20:30
Got his body Cam on. 02:20:34
Six people answered the door. They all say we live here and we all have our. 02:20:37
Families living here too, and it's just. 02:20:41
Massive over occupancy issue. Dozens of cars on the street. 02:20:43
And all of this is recorded. 02:20:47
That information comes to you. 02:20:50
OK, your next step is to reach out to the owner. 02:20:52
Yes, yeah. So it'd be the homeowner. They get a notice of violation that says, hey, we've found that your property is out of 02:20:55
compliance. 02:20:58
I do cite the code. 02:21:01
That says, you know, this is what you're out of compliance with. 02:21:03
And then I will give them. 02:21:07
The time frame that they have to come into compliance. 02:21:09
My contact information so they can reach out to me directly as well as. 02:21:11
The violation that would be assessed if they do not come into compliance. 02:21:15
And then with that, let's say they don't do anything. I don't hear back from them. 02:21:19
They're going to get a daily violation fee. 02:21:23
Our code states that it's per violation, and essentially what that is is. 02:21:27
Every additional person is a violation. So if therefore. 02:21:32
Correct. Yeah. So if there's eight people living in a home. 02:21:35
You have 4 violations, so it's $100 per violation per day. So that'd be a $400.00 per day fine. 02:21:38
Is that connected to their utility bill? 02:21:44
No. So that's that's just. 02:21:46
So that's me giving that fine and administering it. 02:21:48
If for some reason that person doesn't pay, that fine. 02:21:51
That's never happened. I'm actually very persuasive on getting people to pay their fines. 02:21:54
That's something I'm I've always been good at, especially on the utility billing side. I. 02:21:59
Somehow. 02:22:03
Get people to pay their fines. 02:22:04
But money? 02:22:06
Yeah, so my wife has that talent too. 02:22:08
I she's very nice. Honestly, I'm I wouldn't be shocked. 02:22:10
But yeah, so if for some reason, let's say they don't, they are they? 02:22:15
Don't want to do it. 02:22:18
There's a couple different avenues. Our code does say that we can send them to collections, we can place a lien on their home, or 02:22:19
we can just take them to court for it as well. 02:22:23
That's never gotten to that point just because they have paid their fines for the people who have received them or they've said 02:22:27
that they're coming into compliance, correct, Correct. Yeah. Or they somebody says they come into compliance but they don't come 02:22:32
into compliance is the follow up the same process. So in our code it does state and in my violation fee itself or my violation 02:22:37
notice itself it does state. 02:22:42
That if for some reason they are found out of compliance within a 12 month period, it is an automatic violation and they will get 02:22:47
an automatic fine. They do not get a warning. 02:22:51
It is just an immediate fine at that point. 02:22:56
Does the state dictate what those fine numbers are? 02:22:58
Our consolidated fee schedule does. 02:23:01
So it gives me. 02:23:05
For occupancy, it's 100. 02:23:07
Per day, per violation, and that's something that was said. 02:23:09
By last Council. 02:23:12
$100 a day if they've got more occupants per violation, yeah. 02:23:15
Per person over the. Is that stiffen up in your opinion? Yeah, I mean realistically, like if you're getting told. 02:23:19
Hey, you have 7 people in this home. 02:23:24
And you're going to get $300 a day in violations. That's usually going to push you. 02:23:27
OK, umm. 02:23:31
Because and if first and I've had people who don't. 02:23:32
Reach out to me a week and 1/2 and. 02:23:35
I do send them weekly reminders that say hey you are now up to this violation, fine, if you do not reach out to me. 02:23:38
It's going to continue. 02:23:44
When you find a house out of compliance, are you leaving? 02:23:45
A paper on their door of like. So I e-mail them and I will mail them a letter. 02:23:48
OK, I found that e-mail is usually a little bit quicker of a response than. 02:23:53
Also sending it to mail so. 02:23:57
Legally, you're required to send it through mail. 02:23:59
At least that's the recommendation. You just have to get at least 2 notices out there. 02:24:01
Usually for Airbnbs I put a notice on the door itself just because. 02:24:06
The owner's not there most of the time, they're not going to see it. 02:24:10
But if? 02:24:13
Whoever staying there sees it, they'll probably reach out to the host and say, hey, this is on the door, what is this about? 02:24:14
But for homes with just like tenants? 02:24:20
I'll e-mail. 02:24:23
The notice to their. 02:24:26
Just because we have it on file with their utility bill. 02:24:27
And then I will mail out a notice as well. 02:24:30
And then the fine for the Airbnb would be the same. 02:24:32
I do $100 per day as well. 02:24:35
When it does hit. 02:24:39
The and it is in violation, so you've hit the 30 days. 02:24:40
Is there any public? 02:24:45
Disclosure at that point that you're. 02:24:47
I would love the citizens to know I don't tend to do that because the. 02:24:49
The goal isn't to necessarily shame people. And that's, that's kind of the, the consensus I've gotten is. 02:24:54
I when I have put notices on door people will feel like I'm shaming them or publicly shaming them because their neighbors are 02:24:59
seeing this and you have to recognize it's not the tenants fault. 02:25:03
Right. Yeah, it's a landlord issue. 02:25:07
And a lot of the time, what you'll see is landlords knowing the system. Knowing what? 02:25:10
I need. 02:25:15
I can and can't use, so you'll get owners who will train their tenants to say there's only four people in the home. 02:25:17
Even though they know that they're out of compliance. 02:25:24
Or. 02:25:26
They are aware of. 02:25:27
What I can and can't do currently and so they're like, well I only have 4. 02:25:28
And if. 02:25:32
I don't have any evidence. I have to go based off of what the owner says because there's no other. 02:25:33
Proof of that. 02:25:37
I understand that. 02:25:39
Maybe I'm different but like if I break a law or. 02:25:40
Speed. 02:25:44
Isn't that part of public record? I mean, we're, we're, we break something. 02:25:45
I think there needs to be a public. 02:25:49
You know, when you're talking about neighborhoods and. 02:25:52
You, you know, you have. 02:25:55
If I looked over the numbers that Jacob sent me their. 02:25:57
Consistent, uh. 02:26:00
Would you say 30? 02:26:02
Houses that are the. 02:26:03
Crime offenders. Offenders. 02:26:05
And I think there needs to be. 02:26:07
An acknowledgment of how great a work you guys are doing of like. 02:26:09
We are finding them and also. 02:26:13
A public acknowledgement of they are not. 02:26:16
Found in compliance so that they know that. 02:26:18
We are doing it and if. 02:26:21
You're giving them. I don't think it's that from day one. 02:26:24
But I definitely think on day 30 that you don't come in compliance. There needs to be some sort of. 02:26:27
Public acknowledgement of a list of these are the homes. 02:26:34
That are not in compliance and realistically I've never gotten to like a 30 day mark. The most I've gotten honestly is like a six 02:26:38
day. 02:26:41
And then after that, and that's because the person was out of town and so they hadn't looked at their e-mail, but they didn't. But 02:26:45
but you're still what I'm saying is I'm saying like when. 02:26:49
I mean the person who does submit the. 02:26:54
The whoever does submit the concern they will get a message from me or a call OK or. 02:26:57
The system itself will tell them when the issue is resolved if I click resolved. 02:27:03
Like if it's just a weed problem and I don't need to necessarily send a message back and I click resolved, it'll e-mail them and 02:27:07
tell them that their issue has been resolved. So they do get some sort of acknowledgement to it on that end. 02:27:12
Whether and and to be fair, the people who are kind of. 02:27:18
Continuous actors in those homes. 02:27:22
I have very good relationships with a lot of those homeowners who submit those complaints all the time. They do know me very well, 02:27:24
right? 02:27:26
So we are typically inconsistent communication. I don't know if we could do something where it's publicly noticed. I think that 02:27:29
would be more of. 02:27:33
A legal a legal question on whether that would be something that can be done. 02:27:37
Of doing something publicly, it might be there might be legal stuff. 02:27:43
Legal questions. Jesse, is there any names of people who are? 02:27:47
Is there any public? 02:27:50
Report or. 02:27:52
Disclosure. 02:27:53
Could you look into that as we go down the steps, not I mean you're putting you on the spot there? 02:27:55
What could we do to help citizens understand that we are serious about that? 02:28:00
I'll look into that, it would be great if. 02:28:08
Somebody could. 02:28:11
Articulate the question in an e-mail. 02:28:13
So I know exactly what you're looking for. 02:28:15
I'll try. My only concern is that. 02:28:18
Go ahead. 02:28:20
I'm sorry. Go ahead. 02:28:22
I can try and articulate it. I think that. 02:28:23
With this. 02:28:25
Operation. You know the name of the. 02:28:26
Plan. Sorry, I don't have it. I think Operation Neighborhood Shield. 02:28:28
Oh, right now, yeah, I can do it. It's just. 02:28:33
What can we do with? 02:28:35
With disclosure of how many we have and reporting those, one idea is, is we could just do. 02:28:37
Monthly by neighborhood say in English I'm not we took down three over occupied. 02:28:42
Houses we don't have to say an address or an owner. 02:28:47
But you're saying, well, Shem, not we did this. It took I'm actually wanting the name and address of like these are the homes. I 02:28:49
think it's to the point where it's like. 02:28:53
You know, finds work. There's a lot of things that they don't. 02:28:58
Good and bad behavior. 02:29:01
What the owners don't, yeah, most of the people this I'm saying just the home state like. 02:29:03
Like. 02:29:08
Yeah. 02:29:09
You're right, Seattle State. 02:29:10
You remember. 02:29:12
After City Council meeting. 02:29:15
A month ago. 02:29:17
We had all of that. Oh. 02:29:19
When we shared, you know the map of. 02:29:20
The breakdown there was all this public outcry about. 02:29:23
How we were so heavy-handed and we were coming in here and we were going to just just destroy. 02:29:26
These landlords livelihoods and stuff. 02:29:31
Every single one of those comments was from somebody who's not a resident of the city, Yeah. 02:29:34
I know. And yeah, they were. 02:29:38
Yeah, but. 02:29:42
But disclosing that and being public about it? 02:29:43
And how the great work that Maria and the. 02:29:46
You know, I think is. 02:29:50
Is admirable to show. 02:29:51
That this is. 02:29:54
The great work that they're doing, you know. 02:29:55
Well, I agree with the idea of just releasing numbers. I mean, I've. 02:29:57
Been emailing you, Maria and Cash about numbers and the houses and stuff like that. And I, you know, post on social media. A lot 02:30:00
of people were happy about that. So doing something like that, being like, hey, we're looking into bridge, we're looking at this 02:30:04
area. 02:30:08
There's this many houses and. 02:30:13
This many houses we are able to issue fines or whatever. 02:30:15
So, yeah, and I think the another thing is. 02:30:18
My hesitance on that is just because even with like people complaining a lot of the time they want to be anonymous. They don't 02:30:22
want their neighbor to know you want it. You, you love your neighbor. Let's. 02:30:26
Most of the time, you're friends with your neighbor. 02:30:31
And a lot of the times people in these homes have lived in these homes before they've moved away, so they do know their neighbor. 02:30:34
And you never want to be the person to kind of. 02:30:40
And that relationship or kind of cause an issue and that's that's a big thing that I get all the time is just. 02:30:43
Hey I really like my neighbor but this is becoming an issue. 02:30:47
I don't want him to know that I'm doing this and I think. 02:30:51
Just kind of pushing that out there is going to kind of. 02:30:54
'Cause people to start looking and saying. 02:30:57
Well, you know who's reporting this? What's going on? 02:30:59
And I think that's what people are trying to avoid is to. 02:31:03
Call out their neighbors so that they. 02:31:06
Become aware of what's happening. 02:31:07
So when you find a home. 02:31:10
That you say comes into compliance. Are you saying that you're able to get them to move out within 5 or 6 days? You're saying no, 02:31:13
it's always going to be at least a minimum of 30. Realistically like. 02:31:18
There's not going to be often that they're going to come into compliance sometimes if someone's lease is ending in like 3 weeks. 02:31:24
That's probably the shortest just because they're not going to renew the lease. 02:31:30
Right. But for the most part it's going to be someone saying hey my. 02:31:33
My tenants lease ends in two months. Can I have two months to do it? And usually we'll work with that just because. 02:31:37
They're talking to us, they're working with us. 02:31:43
But if it's not, it's saying. 02:31:46
Hey, I have to give them at least a minimum of 30 days. That's usually what it's going to be realistically just. 02:31:47
Legally they have to give 30 days, so there's no. 02:31:53
There's not a way to make it shorter. 02:31:55
So when they do that and you fix it, are the repeat offenders just? 02:31:57
Going back and saying, oh, we kicked out the one person and they wait. 02:32:01
30 days and they. 02:32:04
Then rent it out to somebody. I do see that I also just. 02:32:05
There's, like I said, those homes that we just don't get evidence for. I don't receive evidence. So even though I might. 02:32:09
Be aware that they are. 02:32:14
Out of compliance I. 02:32:16
Don't doubt that they're out of compliance. 02:32:18
I just don't have anything. So when I go to them and say, hey, I've gotten concerns that you're out of compliance. 02:32:20
Their response is no, I only have four people in the home or I only have one family. 02:32:25
And there's just not a lot legally that can be done just because I can request a lease agreement. 02:32:30
And. 02:32:35
If they only send me one out of the seven that they have, I only get one. 02:32:36
I've had people who. 02:32:41
Will combine everybody in the household onto 1 lease agreement and. 02:32:43
Essentially, make them a family. 02:32:47
So that it. 02:32:49
Comes into a weird legal loophole. It's an interesting, it's an interesting thing what people will do to. 02:32:50
Not be compliant. 02:32:55
Can I ask? 02:32:59
You said the. 02:33:01
When if somebody violates again within a 12 month period, it's an automatic fine, does that find the same $100 a day or is that a 02:33:03
greater, more severe fine? 02:33:06
It's usually the same. I believe it has to be. 02:33:11
The same as the initial. 02:33:13
Notice. 02:33:15
It has to be. 02:33:16
The $100, if I do want to up it, I would have to do another notice with another warning period. 02:33:17
OK, I'd be curious to maybe looking at our code on that. 02:33:24
And that way if there is a repeat offender, it's just a really. 02:33:29
Quick, I like the idea. 02:33:32
Punish that that would that would be a Jesse Riddle attorney Jesse Riddle question yes, that's why I for sure do have people who 02:33:34
are repeat offenders and I did actually issue an additional notice. 02:33:39
With a higher fee. 02:33:45
To kind of push them to not. 02:33:47
Reoffend and that has helped. 02:33:49
But usually I will just send out another notice that says. 02:33:51
Hey, here's your two week period. 02:33:54
Because a lot of these even though it is a two week period. 02:33:56
And that was for like an Airbnb case. 02:33:59
But they're gonna, if they're gonna offend, they're gonna try to reoffend regardless. 02:34:02
So even that two week period doesn't get a. 02:34:06
Necessarily make or break. 02:34:08
The time frame. 02:34:10
So that is an option, at least on my end. I don't know if they're. 02:34:12
Is a legal way of just adding more fees after that? 02:34:15
I think I would just like to give the direction to Jesse to. 02:34:18
Investigate all legal options that are at the table or disposal to Maria. 02:34:22
And. 02:34:28
You know, going over the law and saying. 02:34:30
You know, things change, like you said, year to year. 02:34:32
And if there's more tools that we can get. 02:34:35
Her and then also. 02:34:37
I think looking at evidence. 02:34:39
Do we have? 02:34:43
Do we have a help you'll? 02:34:44
Helpful guide to citizens that. 02:34:46
What is or is not evidence that like a sheet? 02:34:48
To helping you gather because you say hey. 02:34:51
I don't have enough evidence. Is there something like on our website where we're like, this is the type of evidence that you need 02:34:54
to show me in a detailed way? 02:34:57
Currently there isn't. Usually if someone submits a concern I will reach out to them initially and say. 02:35:02
Hey, thank you for submitting the concern. 02:35:07
I need evidence. Do you have anything like this, this or this? 02:35:09
Right, OK. 02:35:13
I think we're all in agreement. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to speak for all council members, but just. 02:35:15
Making sure we have all the legal. 02:35:19
Power. 02:35:21
The Jesse researches it and gets it to Maria. 02:35:22
So there's. 02:35:24
A new look, not. 02:35:27
Yeah. 02:35:28
Cool. 02:35:30
Any other additions that people would like to comment on? 02:35:32
OK, last item. 02:35:37
3.7 I will say I actually haven't finished. Oh, keep going, Josh, you want to leave? No, keep going. Keep going. OK, keep going. 02:35:39
I mean, I'm sure that. 02:35:47
Was exciting but. 02:35:48
OK, All right, so. 02:35:51
Now I need to read. Hang on just a second. 02:35:54
While you you left off in phase three, you need to door knocking. 02:35:57
And so we'll begin enforcement on May 1st. This gives us a chance for people to move out. 02:36:01
And this will be after the school year. 02:36:08
So there should. 02:36:11
Be you know people that students that have leases. 02:36:12
Can decline. They'll know enforcement is coming. They can decline to renew their lease. 02:36:17
We also are going to. 02:36:23
Need to enhance our staffing? 02:36:27
So the suggestion is. 02:36:30
One full-time, 2 part time. 02:36:34
And Mr. Code enforcement or code enforcement, OK. 02:36:36
OK, Well some of that be divided up between the sheriff or is it just code enforcement on the City side? This is all code 02:36:39
enforcement on the city. So then a part time would be? 02:36:43
During the day than during the night. 02:36:48
No. So Orem has an individual that actually starts at some. 02:36:49
Chief Holden. 02:36:54
Made me aware that he they have an individual that starts at like 4:00 in the morning. 02:36:56
And then they have an individual that works into the evening. 02:37:00
OK. And so they just kind of alternate there see people coming and going, yes, so and that's great because. 02:37:03
You know most of the. 02:37:11
The parking infractions a lot of times. 02:37:12
Well, you know, people will work late or whatever we'll be able to. 02:37:16
It will provide for maximum enforcement. 02:37:21
Let's just say that. 02:37:23
So I ask about the rationale or the justification for a full time and two-part time. 02:37:25
I mean, what's the projected workload and the hours going to look like for that? Well, right now we only have part time. 02:37:30
OK, so. 02:37:35
Well, no, but we have half of your time. 02:37:38
Is with HOA right? 02:37:41
Very little. OK. So 10%, so we have a 90%. 02:37:42
So. 02:37:46
I can go. I can create a paper on what's going to be needed in terms of. 02:37:49
And create a rationale for that. 02:37:55
And spell it out very clearly. 02:37:58
I can kind of speak on that. So Even so I right now I'm full. 02:38:00
And so like I said, I do about 90% in code enforcement and about another 10% with HOA's. 02:38:05
I would say that that's probably something that. 02:38:11
The city is going to need. 02:38:13
Realistically. 02:38:15
A lot of the complaints I get are during times where I'm not in. 02:38:16
So I do get like. 02:38:20
About 30% of them are. 02:38:22
Cars that are parked after 5:00 PM or before I'm in so. 02:38:24
Realistically, I just can't do that. 02:38:28
All I would either be doing a ton of overtime or I would just be flexing my hours way too much. 02:38:30
And that's kind of the issue, and that's what a lot of other cities do for that reason, even when I've gone to my conferences. 02:38:37
For code enforcement, that's. 02:38:43
A lot of the feedback I've gotten is. 02:38:45
You know. 02:38:47
Doing one person is great for. 02:38:48
A small time while you're getting established. 02:38:50
But realistically, you're going to need more. 02:38:52
There's no way to just kind of have one person do. 02:38:54
Daytime, nighttime, weekends. But there even then there was a period where I was. 02:38:57
Considering. 02:39:01
Doing Saturdays but not coming in on Mondays just because there was a lot of complaints for a while coming in on Saturdays. 02:39:03
And so that's always something you're going to want to make sure you have enough staffing for. 02:39:09
OK. And and the. 02:39:12
We thought about doing 2 full. 02:39:14
But we thought two-part time would be better to cover more of the day. 02:39:17
Ended up would also be cheaper to the city. 02:39:21
OK, so it's. 02:39:23
You know, I mean if we go, if we, if we only have one. 02:39:26
One person managing the program that's going to. 02:39:30
It basically will kind of. 02:39:33
It'll kind of handcuff us a little bit. 02:39:36
To or it'll. 02:39:38
Slow us down. We won't be as immediate, immediate and. 02:39:41
Effective. 02:39:45
OK, I was told by the mayor and this was the the direction that we believe the City Council wanted to go with was well, I'll just 02:39:46
say mostly from the mayor shock and awe. 02:39:51
So. 02:39:56
When we when we implement this program, it really will be very. 02:39:58
It'll be a whole new level the city has never seen before in terms of enforcement. 02:40:04
OK, so I. 02:40:09
I mean, I've. 02:40:11
Been talking with Deputy Chief Holden and. 02:40:12
Basically, our options are limited in terms of. 02:40:16
Getting, you know. 02:40:21
Compelling compliance. 02:40:23
But uh. 02:40:25
It's a lot of what the fees and the warnings. 02:40:26
Our base, basically it's pressure. 02:40:30
That gets people to come into compliance and this is maximum pressure so that. 02:40:34
So I saw a city. 02:40:39
That had a sign and it was legit that after the 30 days. 02:40:41
They had, it was like a campaign site like 2 foot by two foot and they put it out in the strip and they were like. 02:40:45
This house is out of code. It's a code violation and they stamped it on their 30 days. 02:40:51
And on day one, they said. 02:40:56
They emailed and showed the picture of that campaign type of bright orange. 02:40:58
Out of compliance. 02:41:03
And I it was at the National League of Cities, so I was kind of learning and watching it. I wish I would have taken a picture of 02:41:05
the sign. 02:41:08
But they were like. 02:41:11
That public that. 02:41:12
Embarrassment. 02:41:14
Was like. 02:41:16
And everyone, everyone knows. 02:41:17
That the house anyway. 02:41:19
Everyone knows it's the nuanced house that's renting out to 8 people, right? 02:41:20
But that public? 02:41:24
Disclosure of. 02:41:25
Slapping that sign out in front. 02:41:26
Was enough for them to go look, I don't want to be. It wasn't the $100 and that's why I say like. 02:41:28
If you're given 30 days notice, maybe it's. 02:41:33
We put it into the policy that the second violation, so it's like. 02:41:36
Hey, we've done through this, but now it's this is a repeat offender that has come back out. 02:41:39
I just think that it's showing how great a work you're doing and our staff is doing is that we're serious and that this is a 02:41:44
repeat offended home. 02:41:48
And I mean, it's kind of like a foreclosure. You know, they're putting the signs out like this house is for being foreclosed on. 02:41:52
That's embarrassing that that happened, right? The bank had to come in and and put that out in front of their lawn of this is 02:41:57
being foreclosed. But. 02:42:01
I think that. 02:42:07
That public. 02:42:09
I think it's a normal thing. You're not. And if it said. 02:42:11
City violation out of compliance and it had the entire code that they could read onto it. 02:42:15
I don't think that's mean. 02:42:20
Maybe I'm out of order. 02:42:22
No, and I like even like I said, I put notices on the doors for. 02:42:24
The short term rentals, those are on like beyond Green Paper. So if that's something that you would like to do where I just put a 02:42:28
notice on. 02:42:31
Occupancy doors that you put it on our strip, the the city strip. So it's like. 02:42:35
This is here and it's. 02:42:39
Sorry, this is we're we're putting this out there in the city strip. 02:42:42
The We don't need to buy signs. 02:42:45
Why you have some? No, I'm saying let's not spend to do stuff like that. I'll donate. So we are planning on 11 by 17 inch. 02:42:49
Posters. 02:42:57
Like. 02:42:58
OK. For not out of compliance houses? 02:42:59
But basically a warning to be in compliance and if you're not in compliance, get into compliance by April 1st, so. 02:43:02
A very bold. 02:43:11
We're making a very bold statement with this program. So cool. Anyway, so. 02:43:13
The future staffing consideration, in fact. 02:43:17
On the document we actually have the rationale. 02:43:20
So if you want to, it's future staffing it basically. 02:43:23
Has a reasons why we want to go to 1 full time, two-part time. 02:43:27
If you guys want to cover, if any of you want, if you want to cover that, I'm happy to. 02:43:33
Cover that right now and then we request we need Council direction. 02:43:37
For authorization to recruit a full time, well, we already have Maria. 02:43:42
So we're going to go, We're going to go. 02:43:48
100. 02:43:50
One staff member 100% of their time. 02:43:52
For code enforcement and then. 02:43:55
We need. 02:43:57
Authorization to explore software options to improve tracking citations and fines. 02:43:57
And. 02:44:03
Direction in. 02:44:04
The way of our attorney and Chief Deputy Holden to review and determine updates and clarifications and I believe through this 02:44:06
discussion we've had that discussion. 02:44:11
No. 02:44:17
So with that being said, I guess we just need. 02:44:18
To also I left out the part of two new. 02:44:21
Part-time code enforcement officers. 02:44:25
So. 02:44:29
And with that, that concludes the presentation. 02:44:32
Thank you. 02:44:35
I'm real quick, I've got to jump off soon here. 02:44:36
So we're not going to be implementing any new parking overnight parking restrictions in these areas. So the only parking 02:44:40
enforcement would be the illegal parking like in intersections and stuff, so. 02:44:45
So we're going to be looking at all of that and making a presentation on what changes need to be. 02:44:50
What changes we need to code? 02:44:57
In order to provide maximum pressure. 02:44:59
But still also give. 02:45:01
Residence. 02:45:03
Adequate parking. 02:45:05
And. 02:45:06
The type of passes and we we want to make sure that residents that are. 02:45:08
In compliance that. 02:45:12
Are you know that are basically families living in these homes they feel. 02:45:14
They feel safe and welcome. 02:45:21
But at the same time. 02:45:22
If you're not. 02:45:24
Then you'll fill. 02:45:25
You'll fill it. 02:45:27
All right. I'll just share my final thoughts. Jump up. 02:45:30
Generally supportive. I think there are parts that are a little. 02:45:33
Well, heavy-handed that we can. 02:45:36
Work through. 02:45:37
As far as like what's actually on the paper? 02:45:39
I would love to see that. 02:45:42
Long term as as we. 02:45:44
Also implement those restrictions so we can. 02:45:46
Kind of attacking on both fronts. Get below any fruit first with the parking restrictions and then. 02:45:48
How this be our long term plan? So Jacob, thanks for your work on this. 02:45:53
Appreciate you guys. 02:45:56
Thank you. 02:45:57
Comments. 02:46:00
From the audience. 02:46:00
I could just call you all by name I mean. 02:46:02
OK. 02:46:07
The full time microphone right in this chair. Install it next week. 02:46:08
Come on up. 02:46:14
A suggestion. 02:46:18
Maybe putting? 02:46:21
A little announcement. 02:46:24
It's part of the. 02:46:25
City newsletter, either monthly or quarterly. 02:46:27
That so many code enforcement actions. 02:46:31
Have been instigated and are successful. 02:46:34
That would do a couple of things. Let people know that. 02:46:38
Yeah, the city is working to enforce the code. 02:46:42
This is a good thing. 02:46:45
Or wait, the city is going to enforce it. 02:46:47
Code successfully, so maybe I should? 02:46:50
Yeah. 02:46:54
Well, I just even the successful hey, we were able to remove. 02:46:56
You know, two or three and. 02:47:00
Highlight the good work. You know, because staff does. 02:47:02
This is hard. It's probably emotional, it's probably difficult. 02:47:05
You're probably going am I mean? 02:47:09
You have all these people that are. 02:47:11
You know, wanting you to do it. 02:47:13
And then you have that one person that's. 02:47:14
You know, angry and. 02:47:16
So we just. 02:47:18
Our heart goes out to you for oh you're. I love it. 02:47:19
That's honestly one of my favorite things is code enforcement. 02:47:23
OK love dealing with it but. 02:47:26
Yeah, I do do a yearly report. 02:47:28
An end of year report where I do put. 02:47:31
What kind of occupancy complaint, or any complaint in general? 02:47:33
What department took care of them? Because a lot of my job is also distributing it to other departments that can. 02:47:36
Take care of it. 02:47:42
Whether it's like a street light goes out and then I send it to Naseem's team. 02:47:43
To take care of it so I can do that on a. 02:47:47
On a monthly or like every. 02:47:50
Bimonthly basis on. 02:47:52
The newsletter. 02:47:54
I have a quick question SO. 02:47:55
How do you like our current way of reporting? Or would you prefer a stand alone reporting like? 02:47:58
Because I know right now we have reporter concern, there's lots of options on it and that makes it easier because the goal of 02:48:03
reported concern is to identify what departments are going to take care of it because if it is something like a street related. 02:48:10
Parking related where I won't handle that that is holding it makes it easier to just quickly see it. 02:48:17
When I log in and look at it and say look this is a parking issue. 02:48:22
I know who to send it to. A lot of it also is like for parks. If someone is complaining about one of the parks or says hey one of 02:48:25
the. 02:48:29
The toys are broken. It's easier to identify what park I'm looking for so I can send it to Brian's team. 02:48:33
Because if they just say, hey, the swings broken at a park. 02:48:40
It would take them more time to go and look for which swing versus if they say hey, the swings at Grove Park are broken. 02:48:44
I can send them directly there so it makes it a little bit easier. There for sure are different. 02:48:50
Softwares that can be used because like. 02:48:54
Of the amalgam. 02:48:56
Of complaints, would it be better to have a standalone form as well just for over occupancy so we can get that data without having 02:48:57
to? 02:49:01
Kind of select. It's not super hard because our current system will pull reports. For me, I just have to determine what. 02:49:05
Like kind of concern. 02:49:12
So if I just put occupancy concerns. 02:49:14
It'll pull all the occupancy ones that people have chosen. I usually will go to occupancy and parking because a lot of times 02:49:17
people who are. 02:49:20
Complaining about parking wool in their. 02:49:24
Own in that concern, say. 02:49:26
The parking is an issue but also because this house is over occupied. 02:49:28
But it does pull reports for me and it'll. 02:49:32
It'll put it into a spreadsheet which will have anything that I want if I want it to have all the information, name, address, 02:49:36
date. 02:49:39
It'll add everything. If I just want it to show me what the addresses are, it'll just pull that for me. So it's it's pretty 02:49:42
standard and it's pretty. 02:49:45
Easy to use. 02:49:49
I know I've talked to David Kyle about. 02:49:53
The idea of maybe doing like a survey or something, setting it out. 02:49:56
Being like, hey report. 02:50:00
I hate saying report your name about like. 02:50:02
You know, report the problematic houses because I feel like. 02:50:04
There's a lot of people who aren't reporting. No, there's for sure is I, I get that quite a bit in the calls. And even then I do 02:50:08
have Dorelli, our social media girl, send out. 02:50:13
Kind of frequent social media postings that say here's reported concern for this, this and this. We have added like. 02:50:18
If there are any parking concerns directed to the sheriff's or submitted concern, it makes it a little bit quicker if they call 02:50:25
the sheriff's directly through the non-emergency line. 02:50:29
Just because if they send it in over the weekend and I'm not in, that doesn't get taken care of till. 02:50:34
The following Monday. 02:50:39
But that is. 02:50:41
I do try to do kind of frequent campaigns in the summers I I do. 02:50:43
Typically a. 02:50:48
A newsletter for all of our summer events that I send out to the HOA S. 02:50:49
And apartments. 02:50:52
And asked them to distribute out and in those I do add like a QR code for reporter concerns so that they are aware as well. 02:50:54
All of our sign. 02:51:00
Are not signage our Flyers and. 02:51:02
Door hangers and different methods of communication will have a QR code. 02:51:05
Phone number. 02:51:10
Website. 02:51:11
All that good stuff. Yeah. And our our receptionists and at both buildings. 02:51:12
Are aware of it so. 02:51:18
If they. 02:51:20
They will either directly send that phone call if someone calls in to me, or they will just. 02:51:21
Refer them to reporting on reported concern as well. 02:51:25
Sweet awesome. 02:51:28
It's come up a couple times today now. 02:51:31
Earlier in public comments, Karen mentioned. 02:51:35
Wanting a crime report? 02:51:38
And a code enforcement report. And I think in terms of military and army stuff, because that's my background, it makes me think of 02:51:40
something called the status of discipline report. 02:51:45
And military units publish a status of discipline report at the start of every month, and it says all of the bad things soldiers 02:51:50
did and how they were punished. 02:51:54
So it'll say. 02:52:00
I mean, sometimes it's crazy stuff like. 02:52:02
Staff Sergeant got a DUI, was reduced to. 02:52:04
You know the rank of E 4 so no longer a noncommissioned officer and forfeits pay for 45 days with 45 days of extra duty type 02:52:08
stuff. 02:52:12
I'm curious, and it's not that I'm advocating for this necessarily, but it seems like there is. 02:52:18
An interest in something like that? 02:52:23
To be presented. It also creates, though in a more helpful sense. 02:52:27
A monthly data point. 02:52:31
For the City Council, but also for the residents to see and see how the trend is. 02:52:33
Being resolved, handled, taken care of. 02:52:40
I'm curious. 02:52:43
About maybe employee city feedback, resident feedback. 02:52:44
Is that something that would maybe be fun to just do for a month and then see how much outcry there is about it? 02:52:50
Now you might think fun is different than what I think is the software will keep track of. 02:52:58
I would assume we'll be keeping track of all that, so it'd just be a matter of. 02:53:04
How we communicate to public whether we printed growing up on city Facebook page or. 02:53:08
John Smith. 02:53:15
Put seven people in his house, yeah. 02:53:17
Or shaming him for a code violation. I don't know not to make a lie. 02:53:19
OK, well, it's just fun. 02:53:25
Any other comments on this? 02:53:27
Great. 02:53:30
Great. 02:53:31
David, did you have more? 02:53:32
Before I rudely cut you off and go to the next item, No, I'm good. 02:53:34
Very good. 02:53:37
OK, last item on the agenda today is 3.7 city commissions appointment process and volunteer recruitment. 02:53:39
Now I didn't know I was about to be the mayor Pro Tem so. 02:53:47
Was there anything specific that this needed to? 02:53:51
Be guided down? Is this my item? 02:53:54
So. 02:53:57
Well, this is an item that I put on the agenda. 02:53:58
Let me just quickly go over our current active commissions. 02:54:01
We have the Planning Commission. 02:54:06
The Active Transportation Commission. 02:54:08
The Arch Commission. 02:54:11
Development review committee committees that care Commission. 02:54:12
The library board. 02:54:16
The Youth Council and have. 02:54:17
And event review committee and I. 02:54:19
Do you want to make note of a few things? There is a library board and then there is also a library. 02:54:21
Nonprofit, which is not affiliated with the city but is a supportive organization of the library. 02:54:30
Correct. And then the. 02:54:36
Arch Commission. 02:54:38
Is. 02:54:40
The main duties of the Arts Commission is to make recommendations for the spending of the.