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Event transcript
OK, we have a quorum. 00:02:32
So we're going to get started. 00:02:33
Oh, you were hiding behind the. 00:02:36
The screen there. 00:02:38
All right, call the order the. 00:02:41
RDA meeting It is May 12th, 2000. 00:02:43
2026. 00:02:47
And it is 7. 00:02:49
24. 00:02:50
Join into the gavel. 00:02:52
All right, call the order. 00:02:53
Here we go. 00:02:55
We got our new city manager chatting with everybody so. 00:02:56
OK, let's. 00:03:00
Jump into business item 2.1 Adoption of resolution. 00:03:02
Commencing track anchor. 00:03:06
Tax increment collection. 00:03:08
For parcels in the. 00:03:10
Geneva urban renewal project area. 00:03:11
We got Josh. 00:03:14
Here. And I turn to him. 00:03:15
Great. 00:03:16
So each spring as we have. 00:03:18
Parcels that are completed in terms of development is when we. 00:03:21
Notify the county that we're ready to trigger them for increment collection. 00:03:25
So the county. 00:03:30
Puts in this data in May. 00:03:32
After the assessors office is done doing assessments all all across the county. 00:03:35
So now a couple of things to to think about here in a perfect. 00:03:40
System. 00:03:45
It almost would be better if this process were. 00:03:46
Automated and even. 00:03:49
By the county assessor. 00:03:51
Themselves. 00:03:53
Because the challenge is that with the increment. 00:03:54
Process. 00:03:57
The whole idea is you take. 00:03:58
Parcel of land that's, let's say undeveloped. 00:04:00
And. 00:04:03
You say, well, we're going to have an Rea, we're going to collect increment. 00:04:04
We begin increment collection once that. 00:04:08
Piece of property has been developed and is now. 00:04:11
Higher in value because it's. 00:04:14
Been developed. 00:04:17
Now, another interesting corollary that happens at the same time when it comes to budgeting and property tax revenue. 00:04:18
Is that a piece of property like that that goes from undeveloped? 00:04:25
To developed. 00:04:29
It becomes known as new growth for taxing entities. 00:04:30
Budgets. 00:04:35
So for example if you had. 00:04:36
You know, $100 million of value in the city. 00:04:38
And then? 00:04:43
Because of development activity. 00:04:44
Then you have more value in the city now, let's say $150 million of taxable value. 00:04:47
The way. 00:04:54
Our budgets under the certified tax rate system in Utah work. 00:04:55
Is your. 00:05:00
Base tax revenue. 00:05:01
Of. 00:05:04
You know, whatever it was based on the $100 million of property. 00:05:04
That tax rate is then applied to the new additional. 00:05:08
Value the extra, let's say in this scenario $50 million of taxable value so that you get additional revenue that's known as. 00:05:12
Growth. 00:05:20
Well, uh. 00:05:21
The theory behind increment is that you defer that new growth. 00:05:22
To a future year when the increment expires, in this case after the 25 year. 00:05:26
Period. 00:05:32
So, uh. 00:05:34
The ideal time to trigger increment is prior. 00:05:35
To that. 00:05:40
New growth. 00:05:41
Value being added as new growth. 00:05:42
To the city because you're deferring that new growth. 00:05:45
If you. 00:05:47
Don't trigger it. 00:05:48
Right away it gets added as new growth in that year and then if you trigger it later, it gets deducted from your taxable base and 00:05:49
can create kind of a tax shift effect, which can actually have upward pressure. 00:05:56
On tax rates for taxpayers in the community. So in a perfect world. 00:06:02
Each and every parcel in the RDA would be triggered the very year. 00:06:08
It would be assessed as new growth. 00:06:11
Because of the development activity. Well, the challenge with this is that development activities don't happen all at once. They 00:06:14
don't happen. 00:06:18
On neat contiguous. 00:06:22
Pieces of. 00:06:24
The project area, they might happen here, they might happen there. Some of the development activities that. 00:06:25
Contribute to new growth Value is 1 of parcel is subdivided. 00:06:30
So take a farmers field. Let's say it's 40 acres. 00:06:34
It's worth, you know, $5000 an acre, but then you come in and you subdivide it and you turn it into building lots and you put 00:06:38
roads on it. 00:06:42
Well, now those building lots are maybe worth 75 or 100 or $200,000 a lot. 00:06:46
Even though you haven't built anything on them yet. So that's going to be new growth in the year that it becomes subdivided. 00:06:52
Then let's say you start building structures and improvements on it, that's also going to be assessed when those structures are 00:06:58
completed as new growth, so. 00:07:02
In a perfect world, you want to trigger. 00:07:06
These. 00:07:08
Parcels as soon as they are developed and would otherwise. 00:07:09
Be added to new growth. 00:07:13
Well, in our project area where you have some areas that are undergoing. 00:07:15
Development activity like, let's say the downtown. 00:07:20
A lot of those structures are being added as new growth. 00:07:25
As we speak. 00:07:29
So for this year, tax year 2026, calendar year 2026. 00:07:30
A lot of the value of. 00:07:34
Newly developed. 00:07:36
Property in the downtown will be added to new growth. 00:07:38
But that's not slated to be triggered. 00:07:40
Until 2028. 00:07:43
So. 00:07:45
It's important. 00:07:46
That you know if we are able to trigger. 00:07:47
Properties that are developed. 00:07:51
That you're doing so in a way that is designed to net against new growth. 00:07:53
So that's the nature of the. 00:07:58
The background memo that I explained where. 00:08:00
Triggering. 00:08:05
Parcels that are ready to be triggered. 00:08:06
Is important because. 00:08:09
Those parcels themselves could be new growth. 00:08:10
If in the event, those parcels have already been added to new growth in the past. 00:08:14
If you have other areas in the city that are new growth. 00:08:18
Than triggering those parcels can help net against the new growth because what you don't want to have happen. 00:08:21
Is for new growth to be. 00:08:27
Added to the city's general taxable base. 00:08:28
But just to then be deducted in the future. 00:08:31
Because that will create a tax shift effect that will put upward pressure. 00:08:35
On the. 00:08:40
Sort of remaining. 00:08:41
Properties that are not in. 00:08:43
In this case, the the project area of the RDA. 00:08:45
So that's kind of an explanation on tax shift. 00:08:48
So these two packs here. 00:08:51
So there's a resolution. 00:08:55
That basically is directing the. 00:08:56
You know, directing the triggering of these parcels. 00:08:58
The processes that we notify the county. 00:09:01
The county has a couple of data points they want us to. 00:09:04
To give them, which are outlined here, there's two different phases. 00:09:07
Because. 00:09:12
These parcels that are complete in our in our town fall within two different parts of our project area phase map. 00:09:12
So they're named. 00:09:20
Based on the part of the phase map from the original project plan that they fall in phase three and four respectively. And so the 00:09:22
naming convention here is. 00:09:26
You know 3C as in the third well, 3C as in it's in phase three. 00:09:31
And it's the third such moment of, you know, of a sub area within that phase. 00:09:36
It's not all James Bay. Well, it is all James Bay, but it's not. 00:09:42
Inclusive of James Bay, there's some additional parcels as well. 00:09:46
You know, James Bay as a as a neighborhood is a good example of where. 00:09:52
Not all the parcels had houses built on them immediately, but they're being built overtime. 00:09:56
But they were subdivided along time ago and then sold off. 00:10:03
Privately, some houses are finished, some are not. 00:10:06
I think if you look at. 00:10:10
Triggering an area as a sub. 00:10:13
Phase you probably want to consider triggering when more than 50% of the work is complete for that particular area, and I'll show. 00:10:16
A map here in a minute. In a minute. So this first one for phase 3C. 00:10:27
I'm naming it James Bay because it's primarily James Bay. 00:10:32
However, there's a lot of other parcels that. 00:10:36
Have not been triggered previously. 00:10:38
That are in phase three, but that are kind of adjacent to James Bay. A lot of it too is open space. 00:10:41
Which doesn't actually have taxable value, but from a tracking perspective, just kind of. 00:10:48
Understanding. 00:10:53
How many total acres of the project area are complete as in? 00:10:55
Development is complete and they're now. 00:10:59
Part of a triggered phase. 00:11:01
It's helpful to to include those as well so that we can. 00:11:03
Kind of figure out all the different elements of. 00:11:07
The project area that have been. 00:11:11
Triggered. So the first document is for phase 3C James Bay. 00:11:13
That's this section here. 00:11:19
That's from the county parcel map, just kind of showing the county like. 00:11:21
You know what we're talking about here, but we're going to give the county a specific list of. 00:11:25
Serial numbers. 00:11:29
Which is what the county auditor's office uses. 00:11:30
To to basically note these parcels in the in the tax system. 00:11:33
The 2nd and this is that original map I was referring to earlier. 00:11:38
The purple is phase. 00:11:43
3 Umm. 00:11:46
The Orange is phase. 00:11:47
The yellows phase five, the red is phase one. 00:11:50
The blue is Phase 2, so for that James Bay section, all of the parcels that are on that list fall within the purple. 00:11:52
As part of phase three. 00:12:02
And then for this next section, Phase 4B orchards. 00:12:04
These parcels and here's the list here. 00:12:08
These parcels all fall within. 00:12:13
The orange area down down here at the bottom of the map. 00:12:16
So for the orchards now. 00:12:20
A lot of these have been constructed, so if you look at the taxable value here in the last column. 00:12:26
Anytime those taxable values are relatively high like in the fours right here that. 00:12:32
That indicates that. 00:12:37
The current taxable value is taking into account a home. You know a. 00:12:38
A residential dwelling that's been constructed. Some of these have simply been subdivided. They're undergoing construction right 00:12:43
now. 00:12:46
That would be examples where they're in the 70s. 00:12:50
So that's kind of just a. 00:12:53
Like a constant value that the assessor's office uses for a building lot that's been subdivided, but where the construction of the 00:12:56
improvements is not done yet. 00:13:00
Same for these that are 75,000. 00:13:05
So for. 00:13:10
Each of these. 00:13:11
Sections of parcels. The grand total of the current taxable value is about 90,000 total. It's just under. 00:13:12
Or sorry, 90 million, it's just under 48 million for Phase 4B. 00:13:21
And for? 00:13:26
Phase 3C. 00:13:29
It's just over. 00:13:31
Just over 40 million. So taken together, it's about. 00:13:33
You're about $90,000,000 in. 00:13:37
Taxable value. 00:13:40
Let me show these on the map. 00:13:44
I've got a. 00:13:46
Kind of an interactive. 00:13:47
Map that's. 00:13:50
Helpful to look at. 00:13:51
So. 00:13:54
This is the project area. 00:13:55
At the top of phase one. 00:13:58
A lot of this white area is. 00:14:00
Future phase five, that's undeveloped. 00:14:02
And it's color-coded based on having been triggered previously. 00:14:06
So for example, what you're looking at here, everything that is yellow. 00:14:11
Has been triggered. 00:14:14
Previously. 00:14:15
And also everything that is kind of light brown. 00:14:17
Depending on how that looks on the screen, those have all been triggered previously. What has not been triggered? 00:14:19
Is anything that is just this kind of light? 00:14:26
Purple. So again, that's James Bay here that none of these have been triggered. 00:14:29
But over half of this neighborhood has been completely built out. 00:14:36
And you know other. 00:14:40
Lots are undergoing construction. Some of them are. 00:14:42
Don't have construction going on yet, but you know those lots have been sold off. 00:14:45
And then of course you have these streets which they don't have value, but. 00:14:50
It's helpful, again from a tracking perspective to also include those because they're within the phase. 00:14:53
And it'll help when we track the total number of parcels that have been impacted, the total number of acres that have been. 00:14:59
Impacted. 00:15:05
And do things like forecasting like I've done some data for example to show value per acre. 00:15:06
Like when I've done those types of calculations, I include the public space so we can think about the project area as the grand 00:15:12
total of. 00:15:15
2055 acres. 00:15:18
And then think about the phases and how. 00:15:20
Any given phase as it's developed has both public space, but also, you know, private residences or commercial spaces. So you can 00:15:22
kind of think about the total investment. 00:15:27
And kind of the return on investment, if you will on a on a per acre basis, but make sure that you're. 00:15:32
Looking at kind of apples to apples comparisons. 00:15:37
So for the phase. 00:15:40
3 James Bay it would be all of these parcels here in James Bay, it would be all of these public parcels that haven't been 00:15:42
triggered yet. 00:15:45
And there are just a couple of parcels. 00:15:50
Here as well. 00:15:53
Like little pocket parks or right of way type spots here that. 00:15:55
Were not triggered either previously. 00:16:00
And do we know why those random ones weren't triggered? 00:16:03
No, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact. 00:16:08
That those homes are built out for a while. 00:16:11
Which ones? 00:16:15
The random ones here. 00:16:16
These aren't so these aren't actually homes like this is a. 00:16:18
This is like a right of way, or a park, or like a strip of. 00:16:23
Road. What about that one? 00:16:27
This one here, I think it's central Utah Water I. 00:16:29
I don't, maybe they have a pump house or something. I'm not exactly sure what's on it. 00:16:33
So there's not a taxable value associated with it because it's exempt, but it's within that phase. So it's like, OK, let's include 00:16:36
it. So we're tracking all the acres. 00:16:41
I see. 00:16:46
But otherwise everything else because we did trigger a lot of the remaining ones that were under construction. 00:16:48
Last year in this phase three as well. 00:16:54
But James Bay is the only one that hadn't the main portion that hadn't been completed. 00:16:58
So then coming down here. 00:17:06
Down here in the orchards, this is the. 00:17:12
Part. That's phase 4. 00:17:15
And so a lot of these have been constructed. 00:17:17
As you can tell, there's some imagery. 00:17:21
You know, with the transparency, there's some some imagery of the the structures that have been completed. 00:17:23
Most of them last year, a few of them the year before. 00:17:29
And then this is where active construction is happening now on these. 00:17:32
Parcels. 00:17:37
Here along this section. 00:17:38
And then these here have been subdivided down here and construction will begin soon. 00:17:41
On on these so these parcels that are in this phase. 00:17:46
Four are all the ones that have been. 00:17:51
Subdivided. 00:17:53
And actually have an individual. 00:17:55
Parcel number associated with them. So like in this case. 00:17:58
You know this particular. 00:18:02
Serial numbers associated with. 00:18:04
That. 00:18:06
Parcel which has been subdivided and is now ready for construction. That would be one of those that's like worth 75,000 currently 00:18:07
tax value whereas. 00:18:11
One of these. 00:18:16
Would be worth. 00:18:17
More like the 400 range like I was explaining before. 00:18:19
Let's see, what else. So the project area boundary down here hits some parcels, but not all of them. So those parcels that are 00:18:26
outside of the original project area aren't included? 00:18:31
Those won't be part of increment collection, just the ones that are actually touching the project area are included. 00:18:37
In the list. 00:18:43
You're saying that diagonal. 00:18:45
Diagonal. 00:18:47
That's the original project area boundary right here. 00:18:49
So originally there would have been a larger parcel that was sold to developers and then subdivided. 00:18:53
And that larger parcel may have been impacted in the sense that the original project area touched it. 00:18:59
It's the divide of the Williamson property. Is that diagonal? 00:19:06
OK. 00:19:10
They must have bought the developer must have bought part of the adjoining adjacent Lynn Holdaway and then, yeah. 00:19:11
So that was the original property line. 00:19:17
OK. 00:19:19
But it still doesn't make sense. Why? 00:19:21
The Williamson property would be included in the RDA when this isn't Geneva still property. This never was Geneva still property 00:19:23
and it was never cleaned up so. 00:19:27
It's it's really mind blowing that like. 00:19:32
Such a large. 00:19:35
How did you get included into the RDA? 00:19:37
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me. Well, they did an original survey area. 00:19:40
And this was the original section. 00:19:44
This you know, this white section is the southernmost boundary of that original. 00:19:47
Project, yeah. 00:19:51
Area Designation. 00:19:52
And then oh. 00:19:56
Yes, also as part of that phase. 00:19:57
For actually let me see if our map. 00:20:00
Let's see here phase. 00:20:05
Um. 00:20:12
One of these two sections, one of these two lists. Let me see which one it is. 00:20:17
I don't want to get you a too off topic, but like. 00:20:24
Is the RDA. 00:20:26
Board us are we the ones that determine the RDA boundary is that. 00:20:27
Subject to change, so was that. 00:20:32
Voted on originally. 00:20:35
In the OR. 00:20:37
Or do we as a council go, as a RDA board go, hey, let's expand that? 00:20:38
The the authority. 00:20:46
Was with the. 00:20:48
RDA Board. 00:20:50
To designate a project area. 00:20:51
And when they designated the project area, they started with a survey. 00:20:54
After the survey they had to make like a finding or declaration of blight. 00:20:58
To then. 00:21:02
Designate. 00:21:03
The the project and then they. 00:21:04
So I mean, a lot of that there was filings I'm sure with the county and with the states saying, you know, we hereby declare this 00:21:07
area, the project area, then they do the project plan, then they do the project budget, OK. 00:21:12
So that was all part of that original. 00:21:19
Process to to. 00:21:21
Designate. It's never been or could be. 00:21:22
Adjusted. 00:21:26
Yeah, that's a good question. 00:21:28
I mean, it's, it's baked in the sense that it's part of that project plan, it's part of the project budget. It was all it was kind 00:21:30
of. 00:21:34
Package deal in innocence. 00:21:37
Didn't we? Just didn't the City Council just before like last December, something. Can we adjust it? 00:21:39
And it wasn't adjusted to include those, the cooling ponds area out there just South of. 00:21:45
The Lindenville Harbor. 00:21:50
That's a good question. It's been a little before my time, but I could look into it. No, just recently, in December, we voted to 00:21:52
include the cooling pond. Oh, no, no, that's all. That's part of the. 00:21:56
So that that was. 00:22:03
To allow remediation efforts go there. 00:22:06
So you to to. 00:22:09
To be in the RDA or to use RDA dollars at a. 00:22:12
Either has to be in the RDA. 00:22:16
Or be a benefit to the RDA. So RDA funds have been used to like adjacent parcels. 00:22:17
Where uh. 00:22:22
There's been a determination basically saying. 00:22:23
This is a benefit to the RDA so. 00:22:25
Even though it's not within the RDA boundaries, we can do work here. So if you have like a road that's connecting. 00:22:28
One part of the RDA to another, but it goes through an area. 00:22:33
That's outside of the RDA. 00:22:36
So that was the request from the developers to say hey can we use? 00:22:37
This because it's a benefit to the RDA. 00:22:41
Can we use funds to mitigate this as well? 00:22:44
So that was the determination. So it's more about a use of funds. Yeah. Where's the the magic dairy map is not changed. The 00:22:46
project area is more about the increment collection that you're authorized to collect increment. 00:22:51
OK so so these issue. 00:22:58
These two points are to basically trigger these parcels now. 00:23:00
One of the reasons this is also important. 00:23:04
And I'd say you have flexibility, like if you wanted to not include the ones that are building lots and wait until structures are 00:23:07
built. 00:23:11
You could do that. 00:23:15
And the structures are going to be built very soon. 00:23:17
And once they're built. 00:23:19
You know, then you'll be getting increment off of the taxes not just on the land but on the structure as well once those are 00:23:21
completed this year or next. 00:23:25
But it's also important to balance. 00:23:30
The amount? 00:23:33
Of. 00:23:34
Increment that you're triggering against new growth. 00:23:35
Because a lot of these parcels. 00:23:39
Have already been added to new growth. 00:23:41
It's already creating a little bit of a tax shift. 00:23:44
Pressure. 00:23:48
Although you have had, you know. 00:23:49
New growth every year in all different parts of the city. 00:23:51
So it's not. 00:23:55
You know, it's not a, it's not been a huge effect. 00:23:56
But there is going to be a huge effect which is that. 00:23:59
This section here, the downtown that's in this light blue. 00:24:01
This is not being triggered right now, but is. 00:24:05
Scheduled within the HTRZ. 00:24:09
Increment process to be triggered in 2028. 00:24:11
Well, here's one of the challenges. 00:24:14
These parcels. 00:24:17
Are being developed now. 00:24:19
And there's a lot of value. So for example, if I click on this particular one, go to the county. 00:24:20
Land. 00:24:26
Tax system. 00:24:28
So which one was that? 00:24:36
OK, so you'll see like this. 00:24:39
This parcel currently its tax value is $33,000,000 because there are multiple multi family. 00:24:41
Improvements that have been built on that. 00:24:48
Parcel. 00:24:50
And if you look at the value history. 00:24:51
For year for tax year 2026. 00:24:54
You have. 00:24:58
Significant improvements, $40 million worth of improvements. 00:24:59
That. 00:25:05
Will go towards the value the taxable value for the city. 00:25:05
So based on looking at these parcels. 00:25:10
I would estimate. 00:25:15
That within this Blue Zone. 00:25:17
You're, as a city going to receive. 00:25:20
Something in the neighborhood of around actually $90 million of new growth. 00:25:22
Taxable value from this section. 00:25:28
That is going to increase your. 00:25:32
New growth. 00:25:35
Revenue, uh. 00:25:36
Which seems like a good thing, and is a good thing for the city. 00:25:37
But at the same time. 00:25:41
This section in light blue is going to be triggered in the near future and then deducted from the total taxable value. 00:25:43
Of the city. 00:25:49
Which if there's not new growth in addition at that point? 00:25:51
That will create. 00:25:55
Tax shifting pressure. 00:25:56
That puts upward pressure on tax rates for the taxpayers. 00:25:58
That are. 00:26:02
In the city. 00:26:03
Because this has been taken out of the taxable value for the general fund because it's now an increment collection, so triggering 00:26:04
parcels. 00:26:09
At the same time as you're experiencing new growth. 00:26:14
Helps prevent some of that tax shifting pressure in the future. 00:26:17
When those parcels are going to be taken out? 00:26:21
Of the taxable base and put into increment, so kind of balancing. 00:26:24
Your triggering strategy in that phased approach. 00:26:28
Helps ensure that you don't have radical changes. 00:26:32
In sort of the. 00:26:36
The tax balance throughout. 00:26:37
The the city. 00:26:39
And and also. 00:26:41
That phased approach means that in the future. 00:26:43
When those expire, then they're expiring kind of on that annual rolling basis so that the new growth isn't like a big fiscal Cliff 00:26:46
in the future where it's like all of a sudden you get this giant increase in new growth one particular year. So there's a little 00:26:50
bit of a smoothing. 00:26:55
Effect. I think that. 00:27:01
That is important to think about as you. 00:27:02
Trigger collections of parcels each year, but ultimately I'd say. 00:27:04
The most important principle is. 00:27:09
A parcel ought to be triggered as soon as an in the year in which it's going to be added as new growth. 00:27:11
And as close to that as possible. 00:27:19
That hasn't necessarily been possible with a lot of these. They haven't always been triggered in the year in which they were going 00:27:21
to be new growth. 00:27:25
So at least there are other areas that are experiencing new growth that these can be netted against if that if that makes sense 00:27:30
kind of a complicated. 00:27:34
Concept. 00:27:39
Because of our the way our certified tax rate system works. 00:27:41
So can I put questions for Josh? Yeah, go ahead. 00:27:45
Do I David? So can I try to summarize this and tell me if I. 00:27:48
Understand this properly. 00:27:51
So that because of the way our. 00:27:54
Property taxes work that. 00:27:56
The the state has made sure that when we. 00:27:59
We as a city never receive a dollar more property tax. 00:28:01
This year than last year. 00:28:05
In spite of inflation or whatever. 00:28:07
Correct. They adjust the tax rate, the charge to each citizen. 00:28:09
So if we have a huge windfall essentially of a lot more businesses being new growth as you call it. 00:28:13
New business coming in then. 00:28:18
That will lower the citizens tax rate. So that's good news. That's the tax cut. 00:28:21
When they go, when we put that under increment, all of a sudden we're. 00:28:26
No longer getting all that new growth. We're getting only maybe 1/3 as much or quarter as much as we used to. 00:28:29
And so all of a sudden to get that same amount again. 00:28:34
All of a sudden, citizens have to pay more. So that's right. All of a sudden they get a, they get a tax increase. 00:28:37
Exactly so by carefully. 00:28:42
Deciding when you. 00:28:44
When you put each increment. 00:28:46
Into the. When you would trigger each increment, put it into. 00:28:48
In that TIF formula that that will help even out. So you take the. 00:28:51
If you have a wave. 00:28:55
You can take peak off the wave and put it in. 00:28:56
Filling the through so it's so it's more level exactly. 00:28:58
So there's nothing wrong with that. 00:29:01
Explanation. Nope. Yes, that's a good way of putting it. 00:29:04
OK, Yep. 00:29:07
And and just for. 00:29:11
Clarification too. 00:29:13
That's been the strategy of why a lot of these parcels aren't triggered. 00:29:15
On the opposite end, when the city is brand new. 00:29:18
Had a lot of. 00:29:21
Staff operations, but not a lot of property tax base. 00:29:22
They left some areas out of the RDA so that they could continue to fund. 00:29:25
City operations. 00:29:30
But now that. 00:29:31
We funded like. 00:29:32
All of our basic kind of administrative features. 00:29:34
Now they're shifting more of that into the RDA and so it makes sense to trigger these now. 00:29:36
And always take advantage of. Let's trigger. 00:29:41
When Umm. 00:29:44
That properties are built or developed. 00:29:45
When we can or. 00:29:47
As soon as close to that as we can. 00:29:48
Because now that we've been able to build up a nice tax base. 00:29:50
It's a lot easier to. 00:29:53
You know, run city operations with those funds. 00:29:55
So it's a little bit of a moving target because knowing exactly how much. 00:30:01
New growth there's going to be in the blue area is. 00:30:05
Not. 00:30:09
It's a little opaque. 00:30:10
But looking at parcel by parcel values. 00:30:12
Like I said, I'm estimating about $90 million of. 00:30:15
New growth revenue or new growth? 00:30:18
Value. 00:30:20
And these parcels, the collection that you that you're looking at are. 00:30:21
Worth about $90,000,000 so they actually net. 00:30:25
Some nicely. 00:30:28
You'll have other areas in the city with new growth. 00:30:30
So I imagine you'll still experience new growth, it'll just be. 00:30:34
It should. It should be blunted because you're putting. 00:30:38
Parcels into increment? 00:30:41
Which? 00:30:43
Is helpful because. 00:30:44
Then when you get a big chunk taken out in the future. 00:30:46
You you don't have that tax shifting effect. 00:30:50
The. 00:30:54
The phase four, by the way. 00:30:55
Also includes, so not just the orchards, but it includes these commercial parcels here. 00:30:58
Which are mostly built. You've got. 00:31:04
Like 7 retailers, restaurants, etc right here. 00:31:07
That have. 00:31:12
Built built structures and are operating. 00:31:14
And so those are also on the list. These all of these ones that are in white or on the are on that list as well. No, no, no, 00:31:18
that's, that's the Geneva frontage retail. Yeah, OK. 00:31:24
Yeah. 00:31:30
Kid Counsel. 00:31:32
Any other further questions for Josh Daniels before let me, yeah. 00:31:36
Good, sorry please, I am just trying to wrap my head around. 00:31:39
The mathematical equations required to try and balance all this. 00:31:43
Could you? 00:31:49
Maybe help clarify. 00:31:50
Precisely when. 00:31:52
We would be at risk. 00:31:54
For tax shift or loss of increment capture. 00:31:56
I guess related to the new growth, yeah, I mean. 00:32:00
David, thank you so much for your example I'm. 00:32:04
Thinking too that it almost seems. 00:32:06
Like a. 00:32:09
Sorry to be pessimistic in the long term view. 00:32:10
A moot point that there is. 00:32:14
No infrastructure that will offset the entirety of the Utah City development. 00:32:15
And so at some point. 00:32:20
There's just going to be a massive. 00:32:22
Tax loss. 00:32:24
Well, so for the HTRZ increment which is this light blue area, let the Utah City development. 00:32:25
That gets triggered per the. 00:32:33
HR Z application and approvals from the state. 00:32:36
In 2028. 00:32:39
By that time it will not be fully. 00:32:41
Built out. 00:32:44
And so it's not going to take as. 00:32:45
Big a bite. 00:32:48
Out of. 00:32:49
Your taxable base. 00:32:51
But. 00:32:53
And then the other thing you have to think about is you still the taxing entities still get 2520 or 25%, twenty in the case of 00:32:53
HTRZ, 25% in the case of. 00:32:58
The regular RDA increment. 00:33:04
You're still getting that share of the taxable. 00:33:06
Value as well. 00:33:10
So but the tax shift. 00:33:13
Happens uh. 00:33:15
When? 00:33:16
Well, it is a two-part process. 00:33:18
The tax shift. 00:33:21
Begins to be something that can be possible. 00:33:23
When you receive new growth. 00:33:26
That in a sense, you're not entitled to because it's. 00:33:28
Destined for increment collection, so if you take in new growth. 00:33:31
Meaning that those. 00:33:36
Parcels are valued by the assessor's office as as newly grown maybe. 00:33:37
Recently subdivided or recently improved with structures. 00:33:42
If that new growth goes into your annual taxable base. 00:33:45
But they haven't been triggered for increment collection yet. That's what sets you up for then. 00:33:49
The tax shift effect that will happen once they do go into income collection, are we essentially then at the mercy of the 00:33:54
assessors office when that gets triggered? No, we're making that decision. 00:34:00
No, sorry. I mean not the trigger, but I mean for the for the new growth, yes, Yeah, yeah. I mean it's just like. 00:34:06
It's just a fairness. It's like a basic operation of like property assessment and fairness that like a piece of property is always 00:34:13
valued at its market value at that moment. And they would, the way they look at it is they say. 00:34:20
As of January 1st, what's been built on this property? 00:34:27
If a structure has been built, so is it an annual deadline or something like that? I I guess my question is. 00:34:30
You know, for example, the Orchard developments, right? They're doing those live above buildings right now. 00:34:36
Those aren't complete. 00:34:43
They're not complete because they've been developed. They have a higher market value than they do nothing on it, correct, So. 00:34:44
Is the. 00:34:50
Whenever I mean. 00:34:51
At what point does the assessor say? 00:34:53
Oh, yeah, we're raising that value and that's the new value, new growth value it's based on. 00:34:55
The property on January 1st of each year. 00:35:00
OK. So census line to kind of. 00:35:02
Lock in what's going to be in the city versus in the RDA? 00:35:05
And then they'll go back to January 1st. Look at what? 00:35:08
The value was at that time and. 00:35:11
Oh gotcha. So they'll even go back and they'll look and backdate it then? 00:35:12
Yeah, it's all based on. 00:35:16
Like they'll do the calculations based on the January 1st value of this year. 00:35:18
One to the second part of your question about optimizing increment capture. 00:35:22
There are some of these on the list. 00:35:26
That are simply new growth. 00:35:29
Because they're subdivided, making them more valuable, but they don't have the structure built yet. So we could hold off on those 00:35:32
to maximize increment because. 00:35:37
You know there's going to be an improvement built on that that's going to maybe double that property value. 00:35:42
And so. 00:35:47
You could wait. 00:35:48
And trigger those once that's. 00:35:50
Happened. 00:35:52
But that also, you know, it'll just reduce the total taxable value of that new growth that year by that amount. 00:35:54
I got a question. Yeah. 00:36:01
Isn't the goal to increase revenue to the city? 00:36:03
Not really. Increase the increment to the RDA. 00:36:07
Well, it's kind of. 00:36:11
Both because the increment to the RDA is funding. 00:36:12
City. 00:36:16
Infrastructure that's being built. 00:36:17
Well and OK right, I get the argument about the cooling ponds. 00:36:21
And and we maybe had talked about this, I guess it would have been before we. 00:36:26
Were sworn in but when we we met with Josh Daniels. 00:36:30
There's an argument to be made that a lot of. 00:36:34
RDA funds could still be used to fund city projects if they're a net benefit to the RDA. 00:36:37
Correct. 00:36:43
So I'm like, at that point, you're really blurring the lines. Who cares? Yeah, It's like, who cares? 00:36:44
If we can use this as our as our. 00:36:49
Piggy Bank, you know he's the city to run services that. 00:36:51
Well, you do have to make a determination. So like Center St. for example, I believe most of that was funded by the RDA. 00:36:55
But once. 00:37:01
You got once you got out of the. 00:37:01
Well, even even the original wrote I believe too, once you got out of the RDA. 00:37:05
Then it was like a percentage that the city paid for and then a percentage the RDA paid for recognizing. 00:37:09
That a lot of that traffic is going. 00:37:15
Directly back into the Sure. 00:37:17
True but hold away Rd. sewer was done 100% well and you would argue. 00:37:19
At least I would argue. 00:37:24
That, uh. 00:37:25
As you build some of these. 00:37:27
Homes, development around in the RDA area, even some of those businesses, there's a net benefit to foot traffic and business in 00:37:28
other RDA areas. So then, I mean, everything just becomes an argument. But Gammon Park, Clegg Park, it's just people that are 00:37:35
using from the RDA warehouse. Are they going to go to use a park? Then there's Jesse, yeah. 00:37:41
Park is a harder sound to defend, necessary. I can basically tell what I was saying. If Jesse is online, whatever he's willing to 00:37:48
defend, we can essentially go with, well, Jess, well, Jamie and the previous when we were arguing last or not arguing, but, you 00:37:53
know, having a discussion about the City Hall or fire department. 00:37:59
You know, he ultimately came down with the ruling as whatever the RDA fills is as benefit for the RDA. The board can decide what 00:38:05
what it is and if that's the case, then then. 00:38:10
Then financially, our city will be. 00:38:14
OK. 00:38:16
That was one of the arguments. 00:38:18
That I had shared and and I think that comment actually stemmed from it was. 00:38:19
You know the city has an obligation to hire new law enforcement officers every time we trigger X amount of growth. 00:38:24
The RDA. 00:38:30
Is directly influencing that, and the homes and things being developed in the RDA require that. 00:38:32
So then can you use that as an argument to fund public? 00:38:39
Service. 00:38:42
Remember though, remember though, the most many of those. 00:38:43
The RDA funds are already committed in long term contracts. 00:38:46
Right, correct. 00:38:50
On an, I guess the annual basis, but there's a lot of. 00:38:52
You know, unaccounted for dollars in the long term. 00:38:55
Well, it's it's unknown how much is unaccounted for. 00:38:59
My hundreds of millions of dollars of lifetime value. 00:39:03
By some accounts were $6 million in arrears at the moment. 00:39:07
So we're kind of spiraling here, OK? 00:39:10
So what questions can I ask? More questions? I said to the agenda here, boys. 00:39:12
One one thing I want to put before you so. 00:39:16
I mean, obviously it's a motion to approve the resolution to trigger these parcels, but I would love direction if you have a 00:39:19
preference of whether we trigger just the parcels that have. 00:39:24
Had structures built like. In the case of these, they're like, you know, in the four hundreds. 00:39:28
Should we also include the ones that have been subdivided where there's land value for a building lot? 00:39:33
Or should we hold the off on those? 00:39:39
For next year when structures have been built, your recommendation, Josh, is to. 00:39:42
Well, I think it's sixes because let me think here, there will be more new growth. 00:39:47
Value. 00:39:55
To the building lots when you've built a structure on it. 00:39:56
Which will be beneficial to net that against. 00:40:00
Next year's new growth as well, because look, the city's growing in lots of ways. 00:40:03
But netting against that new growth to minimize tax shifting pressure is I think optimal. So I would. 00:40:07
I would recommend. 00:40:14
Waiting on the ones that don't have structures yet. 00:40:16
Because again, you know, a lot of that Utah City development is being built. 00:40:19
This year as well, and that will. 00:40:23
Contribute to new growth next year. So saving some of this for that is is probably optimal. Can I ask is anyone a clarification 00:40:25
about that? 00:40:29
With that, when you started that that response. 00:40:34
I think. 00:40:38
You said that it would be waiting till next year. 00:40:38
Are we only allowed to? 00:40:41
Trigger. 00:40:42
Like may or do we can we trigger it other points in the year if. 00:40:43
If things are done. 00:40:47
Just one it just it happens in May May is when the county. 00:40:48
Puts in the data. 00:40:53
To affect the tax collections for that particular. So essentially there's no net benefit like if we were to. 00:40:54
To trigger something in October, there's no net benefit. You could just go through the process and you know. 00:40:59
But yeah. 00:41:05
Yeah. 00:41:05
Well, and you said may, so is it that? 00:41:07
We have to make the determination on everything tonight, or is it just before the end of May? 00:41:09
I mean, the county needs to get all of the data put in by like about the 26th of May. 00:41:15
And you know they can take the data and then like. 00:41:21
Pull the trigger. So if you for some reason wanted to wait to make a decision. 00:41:24
You could, but we get them prepped so that. 00:41:29
You can then make the decision they can pull the trigger or not. 00:41:31
I would say though that on. 00:41:34
On these. 00:41:36
Parcels where stuff has been built. 00:41:37
You know, I feel like you have an obligation to trigger because you are setting yourself up for that. 00:41:40
Tax shift issue with new growth and like really? 00:41:47
The idea of the RDA is once it's been built. 00:41:50
Then you trigger it for increment. You don't wait. 00:41:53
So can we, because you have the zones up here. 00:41:55
Yeah. But for example, like James Bay is maybe a good, good look at this. 00:41:58
They were in the same zone as the Hamptons it looks like, but they. 00:42:02
James Bay hasn't been previously triggered. 00:42:06
Correct. Can we? 00:42:08
Actually go through and like your recommendation to my understanding is trigger everything that's been built on, yeah. 00:42:10
So you would have just individual parcels that could out until. 00:42:15
OK, Yep. 00:42:19
So my recommendation and I spoke with. 00:42:20
Bert Harvey today and I, I actually like your recommendation, which is. 00:42:22
Go and do the. 00:42:26
Parcels that have been built on. 00:42:28
I would spend 2 weeks though to see the modeling that would affect because I he's like you don't have to make a decision tonight. 00:42:30
He's like, actually, you don't have to make it till September, October. But then his life sucks and it's horrible and. 00:42:36
You wouldn't be able to see modeling and everything, so I get what he's saying there. 00:42:41
Because. But could we see the modeling? 00:42:45
Could we have give you 2 weeks to prepare just the parcels? 00:42:49
Of. 00:42:53
Those that have been built upon and then give us back the finances. 00:42:54
The clean number so we could at least see it before they vote. 00:42:58
But give those tentatively to Bert and say. 00:43:00
Hey, you could probably work on this. We feel pretty good about this number. I'm curious how accurate I mean. 00:43:03
Even if. Even if we do. 00:43:10
Excellent work. 00:43:12
How accurate the model actually is? Because it's going to be. 00:43:14
Really dependent on. 00:43:18
Other zones developments. 00:43:20
And hedging the money against that. 00:43:22
The troughs in the hills well and what modeling, but that's what's so scary right is nobody is like. 00:43:24
It's like we don't hold that. 00:43:31
Card right, it's like the future is unknown and I think. 00:43:33
That's what we have. 00:43:36
As an RDA board wrap our. 00:43:37
Heads around because. 00:43:39
If. 00:43:40
If Utah City controls those cards. 00:43:41
And they literally go. 00:43:43
Boom, 20 parcels and they and they build like they would. We would be in. 00:43:45
We would be in a world of hurt if they didn't 10 buildings. If we were at the modeling information from the county that they're 00:43:50
using, we could apply it here as well. 00:43:54
Right. And and that's probably the best course of action. I'm just. 00:43:58
I'm curious because so much of. 00:44:02
The net benefit of this? 00:44:04
Is determined based on the speed at which other things are developed. 00:44:06
My curious question is why isn't that big parcel that big? 00:44:10
Building within Utah City triggering this year because it's built. 00:44:14
Right. Why wouldn't we be doing that this year? 00:44:18
I have to trigger it all the same. Yeah, it's to their age because it's wrapped up in the state HTRZ program. There's actually. 00:44:20
Pre schedule for when that's all going to be triggered. The whole. 00:44:26
The whole 2020 from what I understand, right? Yeah, 2028. 00:44:30
So does that mean they're removing that out of the RDA? 00:44:34
So, so unlike James Bay, where each parcel is each each each person's yard is a parcel. 00:44:37
Up there the whole area is 1 parcel. 00:44:43
OK, but it but if. 00:44:45
So they're gonna take. 00:44:46
Is that an 8070? 00:44:48
202525 or is that a higher 20? It's 8020. 00:44:51
And it'll. 00:44:54
It'll all trigger together in 2028, some of it having not yet been developed. 00:44:56
I mean a lot of it not being yet developed. 00:45:01
And then it goes through the RDA again. 00:45:04
Yes, afterwards. 00:45:06
Then it'll do 25 years of RDA increment. 00:45:08
So how can you take the same dollar twice? 00:45:12
You don't. You just take a dollar for 50 years. They did overlap. 00:45:14
Yeah, it wouldn't. 00:45:20
Do anything but. 00:45:21
2525 years out, then the. 00:45:22
25 year starts. 00:45:26
There you go. Yep. 00:45:27
And that'll be the last section. City gonna How's the city gonna survive 50 years back-to-back, never getting taxes? 00:45:28
Well, I mean, so you do think 25% of. 00:45:36
Like so just the average city can't survive off of 25% for 50 like that. That's done it for the last 2060% of our city. 00:45:40
Well, it's not a matter of. 00:45:48
We can't change it. 00:45:50
Yeah. But I would, I would say if a viability of the city is important, if you went the other direction, let's say this never 00:45:51
happened. 00:45:55
The city wouldn't be able to build anything there because you'd say, well, we can't afford streets yet until we've grown a little 00:45:59
bit, so you would grow slower. 00:46:02
Because you would. 00:46:06
Have to. You would still have to build infrastructure, water, sewer, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, you'd have to go. 00:46:07
Bond for those things. 00:46:12
Or wait until sort of revenue was there for it to happen? 00:46:14
Or charge impact fees. There'd be other ways of financing the development. 00:46:18
So, well, at least at least this way with. 00:46:23
If the HTRZ is out of the way, I mean everything will be oven built out at that point so when we do trigger it for the RDA it will 00:46:26
be at full build out. 00:46:30
Right. I just think that we've got to get. 00:46:34
Specialist in here to look at that and say. 00:46:38
You know, we, we hold the authority to tax and to fee, right? 00:46:41
And I, in speaking with the state auditor and Seth, he talked about a cat and mouse game in. 00:46:45
One of the counties about how? 00:46:51
You know, they gave this tax leverage and then the county came back. A Commission was like. 00:46:54
Well, if you're going to take that, we can't even survive as a county. So then they assessed another tax and then they came back 00:46:58
and gained the system and then they went back and forth for about 8 years. 00:47:02
And that's what. 00:47:07
You you can't function without. 00:47:08
Something. 00:47:11
So we've got to be able to say, OK, if that does trigger. 00:47:12
What type of fee for? 00:47:16
Public safety or for fire or for something, I think you have to. 00:47:18
Bank a lot of it on. 00:47:23
The sales tax revenue. 00:47:24
Growth. 00:47:26
Yeah, which I'm showing here. But then the infrastructure, so infrastructure that we normally have to pay for just with city 00:47:28
taxes. 00:47:31
We're getting a contribution from the school district, from the county. 00:47:34
From the Water district. 00:47:38
All to help fund all that infrastructure. That's why we can have. 00:47:39
Like. 00:47:42
You know, you'd cross the street into Utah City, There's all these. 00:47:43
Really nice streets, all this really nice infrastructure that no other small town could. 00:47:46
Could create. 00:47:51
You look at any other small town they don't have. 00:47:52
The level of service, the type of restaurants coming in. 00:47:54
Because. 00:47:57
They can't afford all that infrastructure that. 00:47:58
We're having the benefit of all these other agencies pay for. 00:48:00
Because they all. 00:48:03
At least originally, and whoever voted for it or not. 00:48:04
Recognize that. 00:48:07
This is a benefit to. 00:48:09
The long term. 00:48:11
Because in 50 years, well. 00:48:12
Depending on the timing. 00:48:15
All of these agencies are going to get a massive windfall of new revenues. 00:48:16
1C6 fall off on. 00:48:20
Already, after all the infrastructure is built, then we just have to maintain it, then we just have to staff. 00:48:22
And just keep all that. 00:48:26
You know, infrastructure that was built up to really high standards because. 00:48:27
Of all this extra revenue coming in on the front end. 00:48:31
You put in the nicer infrastructure, it's a lot easier to maintain. 00:48:34
That goes for anything. 00:48:37
And the Council at that point will have to do a truth intact. 00:48:38
Taxation hearing that that year to make sure that we adjust accordingly. So we're not well they'll probably have to just. 00:48:41
Lower the taxes. At that point I think they'll be swimming and way too much money maybe. 00:48:47
Well, they wouldn't. 00:48:51
Well, point of point of order, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, All right. Yeah. Are we, are we on topic still? Yeah. 00:48:53
I think I'm good. 00:48:58
Any other discussion? 00:48:59
Regarding nice right here, so I move. 00:49:01
I'll take. 00:49:03
I'll make a motion to. 00:49:04
Did did they want that question answers that what they were? 00:49:07
Yeah, you had said earlier that Karen had questions public. 00:49:10
I can answer that so. 00:49:14
Karen asked about a balance sheet for the RDA and some financial modeling and. 00:49:17
Financial Solvency. 00:49:22
We were able to get. 00:49:27
Some information from Chris Harding and also the county to be able to get some records to the auditor. 00:49:28
From Brett Burt. 00:49:35
And we're going to. 00:49:37
Get those over. 00:49:38
To show. 00:49:40
What those are so we have. 00:49:41
From the beginning of time. 00:49:42
You know, records, but also I. 00:49:44
Jacob Wood and I went and met with. 00:49:48
The county to get just what they're. 00:49:50
Documents are as well. 00:49:52
And so we are turning them over and we're also hiring those RDA. 00:49:54
Specialists to help us with the financial modeling. 00:49:59
So. 00:50:03
Bert put most of those all together for us. 00:50:04
The on the contract side, but on the finance side, we're going to be able to ask when I gave him your contact information, so. 00:50:07
I feel pretty confident about that now. 00:50:15
OK. Thank you. We also have the RDA budget. 00:50:16
On the city website, but could I ask maybe to help facilitate this too? 00:50:21
And I think we've asked for it before, but could we get when we go into an RDA meeting just like a year to date? 00:50:26
Essentially. 00:50:31
On the business side would be a PNL, but essentially what our revenues expenses have been for year to date. 00:50:33
Yeah. OK. Thank you. Yeah. And a lot of that is, is that sheet that I share at that work session several weeks ago. 00:50:38
That's that's a lot of it's a multi year, but it'll it'll basically look very similar to that. So OK, so the motion is is that you 00:50:44
will that we will adjust your current plan to just do the parcels of land that have. 00:50:50
Buildings. Buildings on them. You'll give us two weeks to get some modeling and new numbers of what that affects. What kind of 00:50:58
modeling are you Well. 00:51:02
What like because right now it's all together, right? It's like these parcels on that parcel like. 00:51:07
You had yes. Just take the. 00:51:12
Other values off this just remove all those values that are there. 00:51:13
OK, so just the. 00:51:17
Remove the values of the of the lots that are not improved, that are not right and just do. 00:51:19
Just do the. 00:51:23
Trigger the ones that have structures on them. 00:51:24
And then? 00:51:27
And they get updated numbers for that. 00:51:28
But I also would like 2 weeks. 00:51:30
To talk with. 00:51:33
I think we need to. 00:51:34
This is a motion that's going on and on. So let's just let's let's what's just to delay it two weeks on the actual final vote to 00:51:37
see that modeling. 00:51:40
Awesome. Umm. 00:51:44
Do I? So I have a motion to. 00:51:45
To I move we continues to continue yeah a resolution you 202603. 00:51:47
About tax increment collection for Geneva Urban Renewal project area for two weeks. 00:51:54
Until they can receive the the requested information. 00:52:00
Awesome. 00:52:03
OK, all in favor. 00:52:04
Aye. 00:52:06
Any opposed? Anyone want to second it? 00:52:07
Well, motion you just you just you explain the motion so. 00:52:10
Yeah, sorry. Yeah, that was his. Yeah. OK. Motion passes two weeks. OK. 00:52:15
Let's talk real quick while I've got everybody here, we have a bunch of environmental remediation payments. 00:52:20
Council, how do you want me to handle those so? 00:52:27
What so from what I understand. 00:52:29
Their remediation work that was done from August. 00:52:32
Roughly. 00:52:37
Roughly, uh. 00:52:38
Present day, but present day, yeah. 00:52:38
So. 00:52:41
The total amount is. 00:52:42
It's a lot, a couple million. It's like 2 1/2 million, 2 1/2. 00:52:47
So yeah, 22.72 million, 740 and there's one that we received just like the last two days, that's another several $100,000, so. 00:52:50
That one hasn't been. 00:53:01
Turn into a check yet? 00:53:02
OK. So we've had, we had a bunch of payments going out. The first one was just the contractual stuff for Genevieve for the the 00:53:03
ALOE reimbursements, yeah, reimbursements that we've been doing yearly. 00:53:08
Super easy. It's. 00:53:14
It's just black and white. 00:53:16
But the the remediation I wanted to. 00:53:17
Get. 00:53:21
Direction from Council? How do you want me to sign those? You want me to wait? 00:53:23
Happy to do whatever. 00:53:26
How? How long have you been holding those? 00:53:28
I mean, there's several of them. They've been a. 00:53:31
I got it from Josh in the queue a while like the first one was billed in the fall. 00:53:33
If we've been holding them more than 60 days, you probably need to pay them, right? 00:53:39
This that has been mentioned, Yeah, I think that's very fair. Yeah, fair. 00:53:43
Absolutely, yeah. 00:53:47
I I support making. 00:53:49
All of. 00:53:51
The existing. 00:53:52
Payments to date. 00:53:54
The only thing that I want to stop is. 00:53:55
I want to put the shovel down. 00:53:58
And uh. 00:54:01
Help. 00:54:02
The remediation. 00:54:02
I don't, you know the Nate and Pete. 00:54:04
To we have. 00:54:07
Don't do anymore hours until Chris Harding can. 00:54:08
Put the in reading his e-mail today and I can forward it to you just following what our auditors recommendations are. 00:54:12
Of saying from here on out OK we've. 00:54:19
We're closing that chapter of how it was done. 00:54:21
But please don't accrue another hour until and I think it's going to be a couple. 00:54:24
Two or three weeks. 00:54:29
Where he can get those practices, procedures. 00:54:31
And policies in place. 00:54:34
To then approve the project. 00:54:36
And have the shovels start again. How would you say how is Mr. Riddle on the call? 00:54:38
Yeah, maybe. 00:54:43
I'm not sure. 00:54:46
I don't think he is. See the board from here. 00:54:47
David Laraine, Cdr on there. 00:54:49
No. 00:54:52
No, no. 00:54:53
How would you feel about about continuing work but but holding off and receiving any invoices for say 3 weeks? 00:54:54
While we get that, we'll get in place ready to do that. And then we, we, we start with that at that point evaluating. 00:55:01
As they come in. 00:55:06
The the reason I'm asking about Mr. Riddle is because I think that you. 00:55:08
With your remark there. 00:55:12
Jake is. 00:55:14
You can't dictate. 00:55:16
What? Uh. 00:55:17
Someone does with the land that they own. 00:55:19
So you can't make them put down the shovel. 00:55:22
Yeah, yeah. Better, better. 00:55:24
It would be better to say, hey, we need to hold off on the invoicing until we have. 00:55:26
This system in place to one verify the work being done to. 00:55:30
Maybe more detailed invoicing, right? I think those are those were the two biggest complaints. 00:55:35
So Josh, do. 00:55:41
This last invoice is. 00:55:42
Through uh. 00:55:44
Was it the progress payment through? Would this be April? 00:55:45
Yeah. OK, So what we can do? 00:55:48
In the next three weeks, we can say on the next progress payment. 00:55:51
We need to see. 00:55:54
XY&Z. 00:55:55
Documentation happens all the time. 00:55:57
So and that will give us some time from. 00:56:01
From. 00:56:03
Right, OK. 00:56:04
I believe that will be good, yeah. Because to Parker's point. 00:56:05
It's their property. We can't. I mean, we can't. 00:56:09
So, yeah, so moved, yeah, OK, sounds good. So I'll do that in the director. 00:56:12
Direction, Jake, you good with that? 00:56:17
Sounds good. 00:56:19
OK, we'll get them signed. Then we will work on getting a new invoicing system to verify everything. So. 00:56:20
OK already. 00:56:27
That is the end of the RDA meeting. Thank you guys so much and. 00:56:29
We will adjourn. 00:56:32
If you talk about the invoice. 00:56:37
Chairman. 00:56:47
Yeah, you can work on everything. 00:56:48
That says, you know, you have to give us what you're doing like how it was verified or because right? Are you having, are you 00:56:52
having public works go out and verify if you're doing something out there, something right? We need a protection. 00:56:58
Yeah, it's it's an interesting. 00:57:09

Transcript

Event transcript
OK, we have a quorum. 00:02:32
So we're going to get started. 00:02:33
Oh, you were hiding behind the. 00:02:36
The screen there. 00:02:38
All right, call the order the. 00:02:41
RDA meeting It is May 12th, 2000. 00:02:43
2026. 00:02:47
And it is 7. 00:02:49
24. 00:02:50
Join into the gavel. 00:02:52
All right, call the order. 00:02:53
Here we go. 00:02:55
We got our new city manager chatting with everybody so. 00:02:56
OK, let's. 00:03:00
Jump into business item 2.1 Adoption of resolution. 00:03:02
Commencing track anchor. 00:03:06
Tax increment collection. 00:03:08
For parcels in the. 00:03:10
Geneva urban renewal project area. 00:03:11
We got Josh. 00:03:14
Here. And I turn to him. 00:03:15
Great. 00:03:16
So each spring as we have. 00:03:18
Parcels that are completed in terms of development is when we. 00:03:21
Notify the county that we're ready to trigger them for increment collection. 00:03:25
So the county. 00:03:30
Puts in this data in May. 00:03:32
After the assessors office is done doing assessments all all across the county. 00:03:35
So now a couple of things to to think about here in a perfect. 00:03:40
System. 00:03:45
It almost would be better if this process were. 00:03:46
Automated and even. 00:03:49
By the county assessor. 00:03:51
Themselves. 00:03:53
Because the challenge is that with the increment. 00:03:54
Process. 00:03:57
The whole idea is you take. 00:03:58
Parcel of land that's, let's say undeveloped. 00:04:00
And. 00:04:03
You say, well, we're going to have an Rea, we're going to collect increment. 00:04:04
We begin increment collection once that. 00:04:08
Piece of property has been developed and is now. 00:04:11
Higher in value because it's. 00:04:14
Been developed. 00:04:17
Now, another interesting corollary that happens at the same time when it comes to budgeting and property tax revenue. 00:04:18
Is that a piece of property like that that goes from undeveloped? 00:04:25
To developed. 00:04:29
It becomes known as new growth for taxing entities. 00:04:30
Budgets. 00:04:35
So for example if you had. 00:04:36
You know, $100 million of value in the city. 00:04:38
And then? 00:04:43
Because of development activity. 00:04:44
Then you have more value in the city now, let's say $150 million of taxable value. 00:04:47
The way. 00:04:54
Our budgets under the certified tax rate system in Utah work. 00:04:55
Is your. 00:05:00
Base tax revenue. 00:05:01
Of. 00:05:04
You know, whatever it was based on the $100 million of property. 00:05:04
That tax rate is then applied to the new additional. 00:05:08
Value the extra, let's say in this scenario $50 million of taxable value so that you get additional revenue that's known as. 00:05:12
Growth. 00:05:20
Well, uh. 00:05:21
The theory behind increment is that you defer that new growth. 00:05:22
To a future year when the increment expires, in this case after the 25 year. 00:05:26
Period. 00:05:32
So, uh. 00:05:34
The ideal time to trigger increment is prior. 00:05:35
To that. 00:05:40
New growth. 00:05:41
Value being added as new growth. 00:05:42
To the city because you're deferring that new growth. 00:05:45
If you. 00:05:47
Don't trigger it. 00:05:48
Right away it gets added as new growth in that year and then if you trigger it later, it gets deducted from your taxable base and 00:05:49
can create kind of a tax shift effect, which can actually have upward pressure. 00:05:56
On tax rates for taxpayers in the community. So in a perfect world. 00:06:02
Each and every parcel in the RDA would be triggered the very year. 00:06:08
It would be assessed as new growth. 00:06:11
Because of the development activity. Well, the challenge with this is that development activities don't happen all at once. They 00:06:14
don't happen. 00:06:18
On neat contiguous. 00:06:22
Pieces of. 00:06:24
The project area, they might happen here, they might happen there. Some of the development activities that. 00:06:25
Contribute to new growth Value is 1 of parcel is subdivided. 00:06:30
So take a farmers field. Let's say it's 40 acres. 00:06:34
It's worth, you know, $5000 an acre, but then you come in and you subdivide it and you turn it into building lots and you put 00:06:38
roads on it. 00:06:42
Well, now those building lots are maybe worth 75 or 100 or $200,000 a lot. 00:06:46
Even though you haven't built anything on them yet. So that's going to be new growth in the year that it becomes subdivided. 00:06:52
Then let's say you start building structures and improvements on it, that's also going to be assessed when those structures are 00:06:58
completed as new growth, so. 00:07:02
In a perfect world, you want to trigger. 00:07:06
These. 00:07:08
Parcels as soon as they are developed and would otherwise. 00:07:09
Be added to new growth. 00:07:13
Well, in our project area where you have some areas that are undergoing. 00:07:15
Development activity like, let's say the downtown. 00:07:20
A lot of those structures are being added as new growth. 00:07:25
As we speak. 00:07:29
So for this year, tax year 2026, calendar year 2026. 00:07:30
A lot of the value of. 00:07:34
Newly developed. 00:07:36
Property in the downtown will be added to new growth. 00:07:38
But that's not slated to be triggered. 00:07:40
Until 2028. 00:07:43
So. 00:07:45
It's important. 00:07:46
That you know if we are able to trigger. 00:07:47
Properties that are developed. 00:07:51
That you're doing so in a way that is designed to net against new growth. 00:07:53
So that's the nature of the. 00:07:58
The background memo that I explained where. 00:08:00
Triggering. 00:08:05
Parcels that are ready to be triggered. 00:08:06
Is important because. 00:08:09
Those parcels themselves could be new growth. 00:08:10
If in the event, those parcels have already been added to new growth in the past. 00:08:14
If you have other areas in the city that are new growth. 00:08:18
Than triggering those parcels can help net against the new growth because what you don't want to have happen. 00:08:21
Is for new growth to be. 00:08:27
Added to the city's general taxable base. 00:08:28
But just to then be deducted in the future. 00:08:31
Because that will create a tax shift effect that will put upward pressure. 00:08:35
On the. 00:08:40
Sort of remaining. 00:08:41
Properties that are not in. 00:08:43
In this case, the the project area of the RDA. 00:08:45
So that's kind of an explanation on tax shift. 00:08:48
So these two packs here. 00:08:51
So there's a resolution. 00:08:55
That basically is directing the. 00:08:56
You know, directing the triggering of these parcels. 00:08:58
The processes that we notify the county. 00:09:01
The county has a couple of data points they want us to. 00:09:04
To give them, which are outlined here, there's two different phases. 00:09:07
Because. 00:09:12
These parcels that are complete in our in our town fall within two different parts of our project area phase map. 00:09:12
So they're named. 00:09:20
Based on the part of the phase map from the original project plan that they fall in phase three and four respectively. And so the 00:09:22
naming convention here is. 00:09:26
You know 3C as in the third well, 3C as in it's in phase three. 00:09:31
And it's the third such moment of, you know, of a sub area within that phase. 00:09:36
It's not all James Bay. Well, it is all James Bay, but it's not. 00:09:42
Inclusive of James Bay, there's some additional parcels as well. 00:09:46
You know, James Bay as a as a neighborhood is a good example of where. 00:09:52
Not all the parcels had houses built on them immediately, but they're being built overtime. 00:09:56
But they were subdivided along time ago and then sold off. 00:10:03
Privately, some houses are finished, some are not. 00:10:06
I think if you look at. 00:10:10
Triggering an area as a sub. 00:10:13
Phase you probably want to consider triggering when more than 50% of the work is complete for that particular area, and I'll show. 00:10:16
A map here in a minute. In a minute. So this first one for phase 3C. 00:10:27
I'm naming it James Bay because it's primarily James Bay. 00:10:32
However, there's a lot of other parcels that. 00:10:36
Have not been triggered previously. 00:10:38
That are in phase three, but that are kind of adjacent to James Bay. A lot of it too is open space. 00:10:41
Which doesn't actually have taxable value, but from a tracking perspective, just kind of. 00:10:48
Understanding. 00:10:53
How many total acres of the project area are complete as in? 00:10:55
Development is complete and they're now. 00:10:59
Part of a triggered phase. 00:11:01
It's helpful to to include those as well so that we can. 00:11:03
Kind of figure out all the different elements of. 00:11:07
The project area that have been. 00:11:11
Triggered. So the first document is for phase 3C James Bay. 00:11:13
That's this section here. 00:11:19
That's from the county parcel map, just kind of showing the county like. 00:11:21
You know what we're talking about here, but we're going to give the county a specific list of. 00:11:25
Serial numbers. 00:11:29
Which is what the county auditor's office uses. 00:11:30
To to basically note these parcels in the in the tax system. 00:11:33
The 2nd and this is that original map I was referring to earlier. 00:11:38
The purple is phase. 00:11:43
3 Umm. 00:11:46
The Orange is phase. 00:11:47
The yellows phase five, the red is phase one. 00:11:50
The blue is Phase 2, so for that James Bay section, all of the parcels that are on that list fall within the purple. 00:11:52
As part of phase three. 00:12:02
And then for this next section, Phase 4B orchards. 00:12:04
These parcels and here's the list here. 00:12:08
These parcels all fall within. 00:12:13
The orange area down down here at the bottom of the map. 00:12:16
So for the orchards now. 00:12:20
A lot of these have been constructed, so if you look at the taxable value here in the last column. 00:12:26
Anytime those taxable values are relatively high like in the fours right here that. 00:12:32
That indicates that. 00:12:37
The current taxable value is taking into account a home. You know a. 00:12:38
A residential dwelling that's been constructed. Some of these have simply been subdivided. They're undergoing construction right 00:12:43
now. 00:12:46
That would be examples where they're in the 70s. 00:12:50
So that's kind of just a. 00:12:53
Like a constant value that the assessor's office uses for a building lot that's been subdivided, but where the construction of the 00:12:56
improvements is not done yet. 00:13:00
Same for these that are 75,000. 00:13:05
So for. 00:13:10
Each of these. 00:13:11
Sections of parcels. The grand total of the current taxable value is about 90,000 total. It's just under. 00:13:12
Or sorry, 90 million, it's just under 48 million for Phase 4B. 00:13:21
And for? 00:13:26
Phase 3C. 00:13:29
It's just over. 00:13:31
Just over 40 million. So taken together, it's about. 00:13:33
You're about $90,000,000 in. 00:13:37
Taxable value. 00:13:40
Let me show these on the map. 00:13:44
I've got a. 00:13:46
Kind of an interactive. 00:13:47
Map that's. 00:13:50
Helpful to look at. 00:13:51
So. 00:13:54
This is the project area. 00:13:55
At the top of phase one. 00:13:58
A lot of this white area is. 00:14:00
Future phase five, that's undeveloped. 00:14:02
And it's color-coded based on having been triggered previously. 00:14:06
So for example, what you're looking at here, everything that is yellow. 00:14:11
Has been triggered. 00:14:14
Previously. 00:14:15
And also everything that is kind of light brown. 00:14:17
Depending on how that looks on the screen, those have all been triggered previously. What has not been triggered? 00:14:19
Is anything that is just this kind of light? 00:14:26
Purple. So again, that's James Bay here that none of these have been triggered. 00:14:29
But over half of this neighborhood has been completely built out. 00:14:36
And you know other. 00:14:40
Lots are undergoing construction. Some of them are. 00:14:42
Don't have construction going on yet, but you know those lots have been sold off. 00:14:45
And then of course you have these streets which they don't have value, but. 00:14:50
It's helpful, again from a tracking perspective to also include those because they're within the phase. 00:14:53
And it'll help when we track the total number of parcels that have been impacted, the total number of acres that have been. 00:14:59
Impacted. 00:15:05
And do things like forecasting like I've done some data for example to show value per acre. 00:15:06
Like when I've done those types of calculations, I include the public space so we can think about the project area as the grand 00:15:12
total of. 00:15:15
2055 acres. 00:15:18
And then think about the phases and how. 00:15:20
Any given phase as it's developed has both public space, but also, you know, private residences or commercial spaces. So you can 00:15:22
kind of think about the total investment. 00:15:27
And kind of the return on investment, if you will on a on a per acre basis, but make sure that you're. 00:15:32
Looking at kind of apples to apples comparisons. 00:15:37
So for the phase. 00:15:40
3 James Bay it would be all of these parcels here in James Bay, it would be all of these public parcels that haven't been 00:15:42
triggered yet. 00:15:45
And there are just a couple of parcels. 00:15:50
Here as well. 00:15:53
Like little pocket parks or right of way type spots here that. 00:15:55
Were not triggered either previously. 00:16:00
And do we know why those random ones weren't triggered? 00:16:03
No, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact. 00:16:08
That those homes are built out for a while. 00:16:11
Which ones? 00:16:15
The random ones here. 00:16:16
These aren't so these aren't actually homes like this is a. 00:16:18
This is like a right of way, or a park, or like a strip of. 00:16:23
Road. What about that one? 00:16:27
This one here, I think it's central Utah Water I. 00:16:29
I don't, maybe they have a pump house or something. I'm not exactly sure what's on it. 00:16:33
So there's not a taxable value associated with it because it's exempt, but it's within that phase. So it's like, OK, let's include 00:16:36
it. So we're tracking all the acres. 00:16:41
I see. 00:16:46
But otherwise everything else because we did trigger a lot of the remaining ones that were under construction. 00:16:48
Last year in this phase three as well. 00:16:54
But James Bay is the only one that hadn't the main portion that hadn't been completed. 00:16:58
So then coming down here. 00:17:06
Down here in the orchards, this is the. 00:17:12
Part. That's phase 4. 00:17:15
And so a lot of these have been constructed. 00:17:17
As you can tell, there's some imagery. 00:17:21
You know, with the transparency, there's some some imagery of the the structures that have been completed. 00:17:23
Most of them last year, a few of them the year before. 00:17:29
And then this is where active construction is happening now on these. 00:17:32
Parcels. 00:17:37
Here along this section. 00:17:38
And then these here have been subdivided down here and construction will begin soon. 00:17:41
On on these so these parcels that are in this phase. 00:17:46
Four are all the ones that have been. 00:17:51
Subdivided. 00:17:53
And actually have an individual. 00:17:55
Parcel number associated with them. So like in this case. 00:17:58
You know this particular. 00:18:02
Serial numbers associated with. 00:18:04
That. 00:18:06
Parcel which has been subdivided and is now ready for construction. That would be one of those that's like worth 75,000 currently 00:18:07
tax value whereas. 00:18:11
One of these. 00:18:16
Would be worth. 00:18:17
More like the 400 range like I was explaining before. 00:18:19
Let's see, what else. So the project area boundary down here hits some parcels, but not all of them. So those parcels that are 00:18:26
outside of the original project area aren't included? 00:18:31
Those won't be part of increment collection, just the ones that are actually touching the project area are included. 00:18:37
In the list. 00:18:43
You're saying that diagonal. 00:18:45
Diagonal. 00:18:47
That's the original project area boundary right here. 00:18:49
So originally there would have been a larger parcel that was sold to developers and then subdivided. 00:18:53
And that larger parcel may have been impacted in the sense that the original project area touched it. 00:18:59
It's the divide of the Williamson property. Is that diagonal? 00:19:06
OK. 00:19:10
They must have bought the developer must have bought part of the adjoining adjacent Lynn Holdaway and then, yeah. 00:19:11
So that was the original property line. 00:19:17
OK. 00:19:19
But it still doesn't make sense. Why? 00:19:21
The Williamson property would be included in the RDA when this isn't Geneva still property. This never was Geneva still property 00:19:23
and it was never cleaned up so. 00:19:27
It's it's really mind blowing that like. 00:19:32
Such a large. 00:19:35
How did you get included into the RDA? 00:19:37
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me. Well, they did an original survey area. 00:19:40
And this was the original section. 00:19:44
This you know, this white section is the southernmost boundary of that original. 00:19:47
Project, yeah. 00:19:51
Area Designation. 00:19:52
And then oh. 00:19:56
Yes, also as part of that phase. 00:19:57
For actually let me see if our map. 00:20:00
Let's see here phase. 00:20:05
Um. 00:20:12
One of these two sections, one of these two lists. Let me see which one it is. 00:20:17
I don't want to get you a too off topic, but like. 00:20:24
Is the RDA. 00:20:26
Board us are we the ones that determine the RDA boundary is that. 00:20:27
Subject to change, so was that. 00:20:32
Voted on originally. 00:20:35
In the OR. 00:20:37
Or do we as a council go, as a RDA board go, hey, let's expand that? 00:20:38
The the authority. 00:20:46
Was with the. 00:20:48
RDA Board. 00:20:50
To designate a project area. 00:20:51
And when they designated the project area, they started with a survey. 00:20:54
After the survey they had to make like a finding or declaration of blight. 00:20:58
To then. 00:21:02
Designate. 00:21:03
The the project and then they. 00:21:04
So I mean, a lot of that there was filings I'm sure with the county and with the states saying, you know, we hereby declare this 00:21:07
area, the project area, then they do the project plan, then they do the project budget, OK. 00:21:12
So that was all part of that original. 00:21:19
Process to to. 00:21:21
Designate. It's never been or could be. 00:21:22
Adjusted. 00:21:26
Yeah, that's a good question. 00:21:28
I mean, it's, it's baked in the sense that it's part of that project plan, it's part of the project budget. It was all it was kind 00:21:30
of. 00:21:34
Package deal in innocence. 00:21:37
Didn't we? Just didn't the City Council just before like last December, something. Can we adjust it? 00:21:39
And it wasn't adjusted to include those, the cooling ponds area out there just South of. 00:21:45
The Lindenville Harbor. 00:21:50
That's a good question. It's been a little before my time, but I could look into it. No, just recently, in December, we voted to 00:21:52
include the cooling pond. Oh, no, no, that's all. That's part of the. 00:21:56
So that that was. 00:22:03
To allow remediation efforts go there. 00:22:06
So you to to. 00:22:09
To be in the RDA or to use RDA dollars at a. 00:22:12
Either has to be in the RDA. 00:22:16
Or be a benefit to the RDA. So RDA funds have been used to like adjacent parcels. 00:22:17
Where uh. 00:22:22
There's been a determination basically saying. 00:22:23
This is a benefit to the RDA so. 00:22:25
Even though it's not within the RDA boundaries, we can do work here. So if you have like a road that's connecting. 00:22:28
One part of the RDA to another, but it goes through an area. 00:22:33
That's outside of the RDA. 00:22:36
So that was the request from the developers to say hey can we use? 00:22:37
This because it's a benefit to the RDA. 00:22:41
Can we use funds to mitigate this as well? 00:22:44
So that was the determination. So it's more about a use of funds. Yeah. Where's the the magic dairy map is not changed. The 00:22:46
project area is more about the increment collection that you're authorized to collect increment. 00:22:51
OK so so these issue. 00:22:58
These two points are to basically trigger these parcels now. 00:23:00
One of the reasons this is also important. 00:23:04
And I'd say you have flexibility, like if you wanted to not include the ones that are building lots and wait until structures are 00:23:07
built. 00:23:11
You could do that. 00:23:15
And the structures are going to be built very soon. 00:23:17
And once they're built. 00:23:19
You know, then you'll be getting increment off of the taxes not just on the land but on the structure as well once those are 00:23:21
completed this year or next. 00:23:25
But it's also important to balance. 00:23:30
The amount? 00:23:33
Of. 00:23:34
Increment that you're triggering against new growth. 00:23:35
Because a lot of these parcels. 00:23:39
Have already been added to new growth. 00:23:41
It's already creating a little bit of a tax shift. 00:23:44
Pressure. 00:23:48
Although you have had, you know. 00:23:49
New growth every year in all different parts of the city. 00:23:51
So it's not. 00:23:55
You know, it's not a, it's not been a huge effect. 00:23:56
But there is going to be a huge effect which is that. 00:23:59
This section here, the downtown that's in this light blue. 00:24:01
This is not being triggered right now, but is. 00:24:05
Scheduled within the HTRZ. 00:24:09
Increment process to be triggered in 2028. 00:24:11
Well, here's one of the challenges. 00:24:14
These parcels. 00:24:17
Are being developed now. 00:24:19
And there's a lot of value. So for example, if I click on this particular one, go to the county. 00:24:20
Land. 00:24:26
Tax system. 00:24:28
So which one was that? 00:24:36
OK, so you'll see like this. 00:24:39
This parcel currently its tax value is $33,000,000 because there are multiple multi family. 00:24:41
Improvements that have been built on that. 00:24:48
Parcel. 00:24:50
And if you look at the value history. 00:24:51
For year for tax year 2026. 00:24:54
You have. 00:24:58
Significant improvements, $40 million worth of improvements. 00:24:59
That. 00:25:05
Will go towards the value the taxable value for the city. 00:25:05
So based on looking at these parcels. 00:25:10
I would estimate. 00:25:15
That within this Blue Zone. 00:25:17
You're, as a city going to receive. 00:25:20
Something in the neighborhood of around actually $90 million of new growth. 00:25:22
Taxable value from this section. 00:25:28
That is going to increase your. 00:25:32
New growth. 00:25:35
Revenue, uh. 00:25:36
Which seems like a good thing, and is a good thing for the city. 00:25:37
But at the same time. 00:25:41
This section in light blue is going to be triggered in the near future and then deducted from the total taxable value. 00:25:43
Of the city. 00:25:49
Which if there's not new growth in addition at that point? 00:25:51
That will create. 00:25:55
Tax shifting pressure. 00:25:56
That puts upward pressure on tax rates for the taxpayers. 00:25:58
That are. 00:26:02
In the city. 00:26:03
Because this has been taken out of the taxable value for the general fund because it's now an increment collection, so triggering 00:26:04
parcels. 00:26:09
At the same time as you're experiencing new growth. 00:26:14
Helps prevent some of that tax shifting pressure in the future. 00:26:17
When those parcels are going to be taken out? 00:26:21
Of the taxable base and put into increment, so kind of balancing. 00:26:24
Your triggering strategy in that phased approach. 00:26:28
Helps ensure that you don't have radical changes. 00:26:32
In sort of the. 00:26:36
The tax balance throughout. 00:26:37
The the city. 00:26:39
And and also. 00:26:41
That phased approach means that in the future. 00:26:43
When those expire, then they're expiring kind of on that annual rolling basis so that the new growth isn't like a big fiscal Cliff 00:26:46
in the future where it's like all of a sudden you get this giant increase in new growth one particular year. So there's a little 00:26:50
bit of a smoothing. 00:26:55
Effect. I think that. 00:27:01
That is important to think about as you. 00:27:02
Trigger collections of parcels each year, but ultimately I'd say. 00:27:04
The most important principle is. 00:27:09
A parcel ought to be triggered as soon as an in the year in which it's going to be added as new growth. 00:27:11
And as close to that as possible. 00:27:19
That hasn't necessarily been possible with a lot of these. They haven't always been triggered in the year in which they were going 00:27:21
to be new growth. 00:27:25
So at least there are other areas that are experiencing new growth that these can be netted against if that if that makes sense 00:27:30
kind of a complicated. 00:27:34
Concept. 00:27:39
Because of our the way our certified tax rate system works. 00:27:41
So can I put questions for Josh? Yeah, go ahead. 00:27:45
Do I David? So can I try to summarize this and tell me if I. 00:27:48
Understand this properly. 00:27:51
So that because of the way our. 00:27:54
Property taxes work that. 00:27:56
The the state has made sure that when we. 00:27:59
We as a city never receive a dollar more property tax. 00:28:01
This year than last year. 00:28:05
In spite of inflation or whatever. 00:28:07
Correct. They adjust the tax rate, the charge to each citizen. 00:28:09
So if we have a huge windfall essentially of a lot more businesses being new growth as you call it. 00:28:13
New business coming in then. 00:28:18
That will lower the citizens tax rate. So that's good news. That's the tax cut. 00:28:21
When they go, when we put that under increment, all of a sudden we're. 00:28:26
No longer getting all that new growth. We're getting only maybe 1/3 as much or quarter as much as we used to. 00:28:29
And so all of a sudden to get that same amount again. 00:28:34
All of a sudden, citizens have to pay more. So that's right. All of a sudden they get a, they get a tax increase. 00:28:37
Exactly so by carefully. 00:28:42
Deciding when you. 00:28:44
When you put each increment. 00:28:46
Into the. When you would trigger each increment, put it into. 00:28:48
In that TIF formula that that will help even out. So you take the. 00:28:51
If you have a wave. 00:28:55
You can take peak off the wave and put it in. 00:28:56
Filling the through so it's so it's more level exactly. 00:28:58
So there's nothing wrong with that. 00:29:01
Explanation. Nope. Yes, that's a good way of putting it. 00:29:04
OK, Yep. 00:29:07
And and just for. 00:29:11
Clarification too. 00:29:13
That's been the strategy of why a lot of these parcels aren't triggered. 00:29:15
On the opposite end, when the city is brand new. 00:29:18
Had a lot of. 00:29:21
Staff operations, but not a lot of property tax base. 00:29:22
They left some areas out of the RDA so that they could continue to fund. 00:29:25
City operations. 00:29:30
But now that. 00:29:31
We funded like. 00:29:32
All of our basic kind of administrative features. 00:29:34
Now they're shifting more of that into the RDA and so it makes sense to trigger these now. 00:29:36
And always take advantage of. Let's trigger. 00:29:41
When Umm. 00:29:44
That properties are built or developed. 00:29:45
When we can or. 00:29:47
As soon as close to that as we can. 00:29:48
Because now that we've been able to build up a nice tax base. 00:29:50
It's a lot easier to. 00:29:53
You know, run city operations with those funds. 00:29:55
So it's a little bit of a moving target because knowing exactly how much. 00:30:01
New growth there's going to be in the blue area is. 00:30:05
Not. 00:30:09
It's a little opaque. 00:30:10
But looking at parcel by parcel values. 00:30:12
Like I said, I'm estimating about $90 million of. 00:30:15
New growth revenue or new growth? 00:30:18
Value. 00:30:20
And these parcels, the collection that you that you're looking at are. 00:30:21
Worth about $90,000,000 so they actually net. 00:30:25
Some nicely. 00:30:28
You'll have other areas in the city with new growth. 00:30:30
So I imagine you'll still experience new growth, it'll just be. 00:30:34
It should. It should be blunted because you're putting. 00:30:38
Parcels into increment? 00:30:41
Which? 00:30:43
Is helpful because. 00:30:44
Then when you get a big chunk taken out in the future. 00:30:46
You you don't have that tax shifting effect. 00:30:50
The. 00:30:54
The phase four, by the way. 00:30:55
Also includes, so not just the orchards, but it includes these commercial parcels here. 00:30:58
Which are mostly built. You've got. 00:31:04
Like 7 retailers, restaurants, etc right here. 00:31:07
That have. 00:31:12
Built built structures and are operating. 00:31:14
And so those are also on the list. These all of these ones that are in white or on the are on that list as well. No, no, no, 00:31:18
that's, that's the Geneva frontage retail. Yeah, OK. 00:31:24
Yeah. 00:31:30
Kid Counsel. 00:31:32
Any other further questions for Josh Daniels before let me, yeah. 00:31:36
Good, sorry please, I am just trying to wrap my head around. 00:31:39
The mathematical equations required to try and balance all this. 00:31:43
Could you? 00:31:49
Maybe help clarify. 00:31:50
Precisely when. 00:31:52
We would be at risk. 00:31:54
For tax shift or loss of increment capture. 00:31:56
I guess related to the new growth, yeah, I mean. 00:32:00
David, thank you so much for your example I'm. 00:32:04
Thinking too that it almost seems. 00:32:06
Like a. 00:32:09
Sorry to be pessimistic in the long term view. 00:32:10
A moot point that there is. 00:32:14
No infrastructure that will offset the entirety of the Utah City development. 00:32:15
And so at some point. 00:32:20
There's just going to be a massive. 00:32:22
Tax loss. 00:32:24
Well, so for the HTRZ increment which is this light blue area, let the Utah City development. 00:32:25
That gets triggered per the. 00:32:33
HR Z application and approvals from the state. 00:32:36
In 2028. 00:32:39
By that time it will not be fully. 00:32:41
Built out. 00:32:44
And so it's not going to take as. 00:32:45
Big a bite. 00:32:48
Out of. 00:32:49
Your taxable base. 00:32:51
But. 00:32:53
And then the other thing you have to think about is you still the taxing entities still get 2520 or 25%, twenty in the case of 00:32:53
HTRZ, 25% in the case of. 00:32:58
The regular RDA increment. 00:33:04
You're still getting that share of the taxable. 00:33:06
Value as well. 00:33:10
So but the tax shift. 00:33:13
Happens uh. 00:33:15
When? 00:33:16
Well, it is a two-part process. 00:33:18
The tax shift. 00:33:21
Begins to be something that can be possible. 00:33:23
When you receive new growth. 00:33:26
That in a sense, you're not entitled to because it's. 00:33:28
Destined for increment collection, so if you take in new growth. 00:33:31
Meaning that those. 00:33:36
Parcels are valued by the assessor's office as as newly grown maybe. 00:33:37
Recently subdivided or recently improved with structures. 00:33:42
If that new growth goes into your annual taxable base. 00:33:45
But they haven't been triggered for increment collection yet. That's what sets you up for then. 00:33:49
The tax shift effect that will happen once they do go into income collection, are we essentially then at the mercy of the 00:33:54
assessors office when that gets triggered? No, we're making that decision. 00:34:00
No, sorry. I mean not the trigger, but I mean for the for the new growth, yes, Yeah, yeah. I mean it's just like. 00:34:06
It's just a fairness. It's like a basic operation of like property assessment and fairness that like a piece of property is always 00:34:13
valued at its market value at that moment. And they would, the way they look at it is they say. 00:34:20
As of January 1st, what's been built on this property? 00:34:27
If a structure has been built, so is it an annual deadline or something like that? I I guess my question is. 00:34:30
You know, for example, the Orchard developments, right? They're doing those live above buildings right now. 00:34:36
Those aren't complete. 00:34:43
They're not complete because they've been developed. They have a higher market value than they do nothing on it, correct, So. 00:34:44
Is the. 00:34:50
Whenever I mean. 00:34:51
At what point does the assessor say? 00:34:53
Oh, yeah, we're raising that value and that's the new value, new growth value it's based on. 00:34:55
The property on January 1st of each year. 00:35:00
OK. So census line to kind of. 00:35:02
Lock in what's going to be in the city versus in the RDA? 00:35:05
And then they'll go back to January 1st. Look at what? 00:35:08
The value was at that time and. 00:35:11
Oh gotcha. So they'll even go back and they'll look and backdate it then? 00:35:12
Yeah, it's all based on. 00:35:16
Like they'll do the calculations based on the January 1st value of this year. 00:35:18
One to the second part of your question about optimizing increment capture. 00:35:22
There are some of these on the list. 00:35:26
That are simply new growth. 00:35:29
Because they're subdivided, making them more valuable, but they don't have the structure built yet. So we could hold off on those 00:35:32
to maximize increment because. 00:35:37
You know there's going to be an improvement built on that that's going to maybe double that property value. 00:35:42
And so. 00:35:47
You could wait. 00:35:48
And trigger those once that's. 00:35:50
Happened. 00:35:52
But that also, you know, it'll just reduce the total taxable value of that new growth that year by that amount. 00:35:54
I got a question. Yeah. 00:36:01
Isn't the goal to increase revenue to the city? 00:36:03
Not really. Increase the increment to the RDA. 00:36:07
Well, it's kind of. 00:36:11
Both because the increment to the RDA is funding. 00:36:12
City. 00:36:16
Infrastructure that's being built. 00:36:17
Well and OK right, I get the argument about the cooling ponds. 00:36:21
And and we maybe had talked about this, I guess it would have been before we. 00:36:26
Were sworn in but when we we met with Josh Daniels. 00:36:30
There's an argument to be made that a lot of. 00:36:34
RDA funds could still be used to fund city projects if they're a net benefit to the RDA. 00:36:37
Correct. 00:36:43
So I'm like, at that point, you're really blurring the lines. Who cares? Yeah, It's like, who cares? 00:36:44
If we can use this as our as our. 00:36:49
Piggy Bank, you know he's the city to run services that. 00:36:51
Well, you do have to make a determination. So like Center St. for example, I believe most of that was funded by the RDA. 00:36:55
But once. 00:37:01
You got once you got out of the. 00:37:01
Well, even even the original wrote I believe too, once you got out of the RDA. 00:37:05
Then it was like a percentage that the city paid for and then a percentage the RDA paid for recognizing. 00:37:09
That a lot of that traffic is going. 00:37:15
Directly back into the Sure. 00:37:17
True but hold away Rd. sewer was done 100% well and you would argue. 00:37:19
At least I would argue. 00:37:24
That, uh. 00:37:25
As you build some of these. 00:37:27
Homes, development around in the RDA area, even some of those businesses, there's a net benefit to foot traffic and business in 00:37:28
other RDA areas. So then, I mean, everything just becomes an argument. But Gammon Park, Clegg Park, it's just people that are 00:37:35
using from the RDA warehouse. Are they going to go to use a park? Then there's Jesse, yeah. 00:37:41
Park is a harder sound to defend, necessary. I can basically tell what I was saying. If Jesse is online, whatever he's willing to 00:37:48
defend, we can essentially go with, well, Jess, well, Jamie and the previous when we were arguing last or not arguing, but, you 00:37:53
know, having a discussion about the City Hall or fire department. 00:37:59
You know, he ultimately came down with the ruling as whatever the RDA fills is as benefit for the RDA. The board can decide what 00:38:05
what it is and if that's the case, then then. 00:38:10
Then financially, our city will be. 00:38:14
OK. 00:38:16
That was one of the arguments. 00:38:18
That I had shared and and I think that comment actually stemmed from it was. 00:38:19
You know the city has an obligation to hire new law enforcement officers every time we trigger X amount of growth. 00:38:24
The RDA. 00:38:30
Is directly influencing that, and the homes and things being developed in the RDA require that. 00:38:32
So then can you use that as an argument to fund public? 00:38:39
Service. 00:38:42
Remember though, remember though, the most many of those. 00:38:43
The RDA funds are already committed in long term contracts. 00:38:46
Right, correct. 00:38:50
On an, I guess the annual basis, but there's a lot of. 00:38:52
You know, unaccounted for dollars in the long term. 00:38:55
Well, it's it's unknown how much is unaccounted for. 00:38:59
My hundreds of millions of dollars of lifetime value. 00:39:03
By some accounts were $6 million in arrears at the moment. 00:39:07
So we're kind of spiraling here, OK? 00:39:10
So what questions can I ask? More questions? I said to the agenda here, boys. 00:39:12
One one thing I want to put before you so. 00:39:16
I mean, obviously it's a motion to approve the resolution to trigger these parcels, but I would love direction if you have a 00:39:19
preference of whether we trigger just the parcels that have. 00:39:24
Had structures built like. In the case of these, they're like, you know, in the four hundreds. 00:39:28
Should we also include the ones that have been subdivided where there's land value for a building lot? 00:39:33
Or should we hold the off on those? 00:39:39
For next year when structures have been built, your recommendation, Josh, is to. 00:39:42
Well, I think it's sixes because let me think here, there will be more new growth. 00:39:47
Value. 00:39:55
To the building lots when you've built a structure on it. 00:39:56
Which will be beneficial to net that against. 00:40:00
Next year's new growth as well, because look, the city's growing in lots of ways. 00:40:03
But netting against that new growth to minimize tax shifting pressure is I think optimal. So I would. 00:40:07
I would recommend. 00:40:14
Waiting on the ones that don't have structures yet. 00:40:16
Because again, you know, a lot of that Utah City development is being built. 00:40:19
This year as well, and that will. 00:40:23
Contribute to new growth next year. So saving some of this for that is is probably optimal. Can I ask is anyone a clarification 00:40:25
about that? 00:40:29
With that, when you started that that response. 00:40:34
I think. 00:40:38
You said that it would be waiting till next year. 00:40:38
Are we only allowed to? 00:40:41
Trigger. 00:40:42
Like may or do we can we trigger it other points in the year if. 00:40:43
If things are done. 00:40:47
Just one it just it happens in May May is when the county. 00:40:48
Puts in the data. 00:40:53
To affect the tax collections for that particular. So essentially there's no net benefit like if we were to. 00:40:54
To trigger something in October, there's no net benefit. You could just go through the process and you know. 00:40:59
But yeah. 00:41:05
Yeah. 00:41:05
Well, and you said may, so is it that? 00:41:07
We have to make the determination on everything tonight, or is it just before the end of May? 00:41:09
I mean, the county needs to get all of the data put in by like about the 26th of May. 00:41:15
And you know they can take the data and then like. 00:41:21
Pull the trigger. So if you for some reason wanted to wait to make a decision. 00:41:24
You could, but we get them prepped so that. 00:41:29
You can then make the decision they can pull the trigger or not. 00:41:31
I would say though that on. 00:41:34
On these. 00:41:36
Parcels where stuff has been built. 00:41:37
You know, I feel like you have an obligation to trigger because you are setting yourself up for that. 00:41:40
Tax shift issue with new growth and like really? 00:41:47
The idea of the RDA is once it's been built. 00:41:50
Then you trigger it for increment. You don't wait. 00:41:53
So can we, because you have the zones up here. 00:41:55
Yeah. But for example, like James Bay is maybe a good, good look at this. 00:41:58
They were in the same zone as the Hamptons it looks like, but they. 00:42:02
James Bay hasn't been previously triggered. 00:42:06
Correct. Can we? 00:42:08
Actually go through and like your recommendation to my understanding is trigger everything that's been built on, yeah. 00:42:10
So you would have just individual parcels that could out until. 00:42:15
OK, Yep. 00:42:19
So my recommendation and I spoke with. 00:42:20
Bert Harvey today and I, I actually like your recommendation, which is. 00:42:22
Go and do the. 00:42:26
Parcels that have been built on. 00:42:28
I would spend 2 weeks though to see the modeling that would affect because I he's like you don't have to make a decision tonight. 00:42:30
He's like, actually, you don't have to make it till September, October. But then his life sucks and it's horrible and. 00:42:36
You wouldn't be able to see modeling and everything, so I get what he's saying there. 00:42:41
Because. But could we see the modeling? 00:42:45
Could we have give you 2 weeks to prepare just the parcels? 00:42:49
Of. 00:42:53
Those that have been built upon and then give us back the finances. 00:42:54
The clean number so we could at least see it before they vote. 00:42:58
But give those tentatively to Bert and say. 00:43:00
Hey, you could probably work on this. We feel pretty good about this number. I'm curious how accurate I mean. 00:43:03
Even if. Even if we do. 00:43:10
Excellent work. 00:43:12
How accurate the model actually is? Because it's going to be. 00:43:14
Really dependent on. 00:43:18
Other zones developments. 00:43:20
And hedging the money against that. 00:43:22
The troughs in the hills well and what modeling, but that's what's so scary right is nobody is like. 00:43:24
It's like we don't hold that. 00:43:31
Card right, it's like the future is unknown and I think. 00:43:33
That's what we have. 00:43:36
As an RDA board wrap our. 00:43:37
Heads around because. 00:43:39
If. 00:43:40
If Utah City controls those cards. 00:43:41
And they literally go. 00:43:43
Boom, 20 parcels and they and they build like they would. We would be in. 00:43:45
We would be in a world of hurt if they didn't 10 buildings. If we were at the modeling information from the county that they're 00:43:50
using, we could apply it here as well. 00:43:54
Right. And and that's probably the best course of action. I'm just. 00:43:58
I'm curious because so much of. 00:44:02
The net benefit of this? 00:44:04
Is determined based on the speed at which other things are developed. 00:44:06
My curious question is why isn't that big parcel that big? 00:44:10
Building within Utah City triggering this year because it's built. 00:44:14
Right. Why wouldn't we be doing that this year? 00:44:18
I have to trigger it all the same. Yeah, it's to their age because it's wrapped up in the state HTRZ program. There's actually. 00:44:20
Pre schedule for when that's all going to be triggered. The whole. 00:44:26
The whole 2020 from what I understand, right? Yeah, 2028. 00:44:30
So does that mean they're removing that out of the RDA? 00:44:34
So, so unlike James Bay, where each parcel is each each each person's yard is a parcel. 00:44:37
Up there the whole area is 1 parcel. 00:44:43
OK, but it but if. 00:44:45
So they're gonna take. 00:44:46
Is that an 8070? 00:44:48
202525 or is that a higher 20? It's 8020. 00:44:51
And it'll. 00:44:54
It'll all trigger together in 2028, some of it having not yet been developed. 00:44:56
I mean a lot of it not being yet developed. 00:45:01
And then it goes through the RDA again. 00:45:04
Yes, afterwards. 00:45:06
Then it'll do 25 years of RDA increment. 00:45:08
So how can you take the same dollar twice? 00:45:12
You don't. You just take a dollar for 50 years. They did overlap. 00:45:14
Yeah, it wouldn't. 00:45:20
Do anything but. 00:45:21
2525 years out, then the. 00:45:22
25 year starts. 00:45:26
There you go. Yep. 00:45:27
And that'll be the last section. City gonna How's the city gonna survive 50 years back-to-back, never getting taxes? 00:45:28
Well, I mean, so you do think 25% of. 00:45:36
Like so just the average city can't survive off of 25% for 50 like that. That's done it for the last 2060% of our city. 00:45:40
Well, it's not a matter of. 00:45:48
We can't change it. 00:45:50
Yeah. But I would, I would say if a viability of the city is important, if you went the other direction, let's say this never 00:45:51
happened. 00:45:55
The city wouldn't be able to build anything there because you'd say, well, we can't afford streets yet until we've grown a little 00:45:59
bit, so you would grow slower. 00:46:02
Because you would. 00:46:06
Have to. You would still have to build infrastructure, water, sewer, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, you'd have to go. 00:46:07
Bond for those things. 00:46:12
Or wait until sort of revenue was there for it to happen? 00:46:14
Or charge impact fees. There'd be other ways of financing the development. 00:46:18
So, well, at least at least this way with. 00:46:23
If the HTRZ is out of the way, I mean everything will be oven built out at that point so when we do trigger it for the RDA it will 00:46:26
be at full build out. 00:46:30
Right. I just think that we've got to get. 00:46:34
Specialist in here to look at that and say. 00:46:38
You know, we, we hold the authority to tax and to fee, right? 00:46:41
And I, in speaking with the state auditor and Seth, he talked about a cat and mouse game in. 00:46:45
One of the counties about how? 00:46:51
You know, they gave this tax leverage and then the county came back. A Commission was like. 00:46:54
Well, if you're going to take that, we can't even survive as a county. So then they assessed another tax and then they came back 00:46:58
and gained the system and then they went back and forth for about 8 years. 00:47:02
And that's what. 00:47:07
You you can't function without. 00:47:08
Something. 00:47:11
So we've got to be able to say, OK, if that does trigger. 00:47:12
What type of fee for? 00:47:16
Public safety or for fire or for something, I think you have to. 00:47:18
Bank a lot of it on. 00:47:23
The sales tax revenue. 00:47:24
Growth. 00:47:26
Yeah, which I'm showing here. But then the infrastructure, so infrastructure that we normally have to pay for just with city 00:47:28
taxes. 00:47:31
We're getting a contribution from the school district, from the county. 00:47:34
From the Water district. 00:47:38
All to help fund all that infrastructure. That's why we can have. 00:47:39
Like. 00:47:42
You know, you'd cross the street into Utah City, There's all these. 00:47:43
Really nice streets, all this really nice infrastructure that no other small town could. 00:47:46
Could create. 00:47:51
You look at any other small town they don't have. 00:47:52
The level of service, the type of restaurants coming in. 00:47:54
Because. 00:47:57
They can't afford all that infrastructure that. 00:47:58
We're having the benefit of all these other agencies pay for. 00:48:00
Because they all. 00:48:03
At least originally, and whoever voted for it or not. 00:48:04
Recognize that. 00:48:07
This is a benefit to. 00:48:09
The long term. 00:48:11
Because in 50 years, well. 00:48:12
Depending on the timing. 00:48:15
All of these agencies are going to get a massive windfall of new revenues. 00:48:16
1C6 fall off on. 00:48:20
Already, after all the infrastructure is built, then we just have to maintain it, then we just have to staff. 00:48:22
And just keep all that. 00:48:26
You know, infrastructure that was built up to really high standards because. 00:48:27
Of all this extra revenue coming in on the front end. 00:48:31
You put in the nicer infrastructure, it's a lot easier to maintain. 00:48:34
That goes for anything. 00:48:37
And the Council at that point will have to do a truth intact. 00:48:38
Taxation hearing that that year to make sure that we adjust accordingly. So we're not well they'll probably have to just. 00:48:41
Lower the taxes. At that point I think they'll be swimming and way too much money maybe. 00:48:47
Well, they wouldn't. 00:48:51
Well, point of point of order, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, All right. Yeah. Are we, are we on topic still? Yeah. 00:48:53
I think I'm good. 00:48:58
Any other discussion? 00:48:59
Regarding nice right here, so I move. 00:49:01
I'll take. 00:49:03
I'll make a motion to. 00:49:04
Did did they want that question answers that what they were? 00:49:07
Yeah, you had said earlier that Karen had questions public. 00:49:10
I can answer that so. 00:49:14
Karen asked about a balance sheet for the RDA and some financial modeling and. 00:49:17
Financial Solvency. 00:49:22
We were able to get. 00:49:27
Some information from Chris Harding and also the county to be able to get some records to the auditor. 00:49:28
From Brett Burt. 00:49:35
And we're going to. 00:49:37
Get those over. 00:49:38
To show. 00:49:40
What those are so we have. 00:49:41
From the beginning of time. 00:49:42
You know, records, but also I. 00:49:44
Jacob Wood and I went and met with. 00:49:48
The county to get just what they're. 00:49:50
Documents are as well. 00:49:52
And so we are turning them over and we're also hiring those RDA. 00:49:54
Specialists to help us with the financial modeling. 00:49:59
So. 00:50:03
Bert put most of those all together for us. 00:50:04
The on the contract side, but on the finance side, we're going to be able to ask when I gave him your contact information, so. 00:50:07
I feel pretty confident about that now. 00:50:15
OK. Thank you. We also have the RDA budget. 00:50:16
On the city website, but could I ask maybe to help facilitate this too? 00:50:21
And I think we've asked for it before, but could we get when we go into an RDA meeting just like a year to date? 00:50:26
Essentially. 00:50:31
On the business side would be a PNL, but essentially what our revenues expenses have been for year to date. 00:50:33
Yeah. OK. Thank you. Yeah. And a lot of that is, is that sheet that I share at that work session several weeks ago. 00:50:38
That's that's a lot of it's a multi year, but it'll it'll basically look very similar to that. So OK, so the motion is is that you 00:50:44
will that we will adjust your current plan to just do the parcels of land that have. 00:50:50
Buildings. Buildings on them. You'll give us two weeks to get some modeling and new numbers of what that affects. What kind of 00:50:58
modeling are you Well. 00:51:02
What like because right now it's all together, right? It's like these parcels on that parcel like. 00:51:07
You had yes. Just take the. 00:51:12
Other values off this just remove all those values that are there. 00:51:13
OK, so just the. 00:51:17
Remove the values of the of the lots that are not improved, that are not right and just do. 00:51:19
Just do the. 00:51:23
Trigger the ones that have structures on them. 00:51:24
And then? 00:51:27
And they get updated numbers for that. 00:51:28
But I also would like 2 weeks. 00:51:30
To talk with. 00:51:33
I think we need to. 00:51:34
This is a motion that's going on and on. So let's just let's let's what's just to delay it two weeks on the actual final vote to 00:51:37
see that modeling. 00:51:40
Awesome. Umm. 00:51:44
Do I? So I have a motion to. 00:51:45
To I move we continues to continue yeah a resolution you 202603. 00:51:47
About tax increment collection for Geneva Urban Renewal project area for two weeks. 00:51:54
Until they can receive the the requested information. 00:52:00
Awesome. 00:52:03
OK, all in favor. 00:52:04
Aye. 00:52:06
Any opposed? Anyone want to second it? 00:52:07
Well, motion you just you just you explain the motion so. 00:52:10
Yeah, sorry. Yeah, that was his. Yeah. OK. Motion passes two weeks. OK. 00:52:15
Let's talk real quick while I've got everybody here, we have a bunch of environmental remediation payments. 00:52:20
Council, how do you want me to handle those so? 00:52:27
What so from what I understand. 00:52:29
Their remediation work that was done from August. 00:52:32
Roughly. 00:52:37
Roughly, uh. 00:52:38
Present day, but present day, yeah. 00:52:38
So. 00:52:41
The total amount is. 00:52:42
It's a lot, a couple million. It's like 2 1/2 million, 2 1/2. 00:52:47
So yeah, 22.72 million, 740 and there's one that we received just like the last two days, that's another several $100,000, so. 00:52:50
That one hasn't been. 00:53:01
Turn into a check yet? 00:53:02
OK. So we've had, we had a bunch of payments going out. The first one was just the contractual stuff for Genevieve for the the 00:53:03
ALOE reimbursements, yeah, reimbursements that we've been doing yearly. 00:53:08
Super easy. It's. 00:53:14
It's just black and white. 00:53:16
But the the remediation I wanted to. 00:53:17
Get. 00:53:21
Direction from Council? How do you want me to sign those? You want me to wait? 00:53:23
Happy to do whatever. 00:53:26
How? How long have you been holding those? 00:53:28
I mean, there's several of them. They've been a. 00:53:31
I got it from Josh in the queue a while like the first one was billed in the fall. 00:53:33
If we've been holding them more than 60 days, you probably need to pay them, right? 00:53:39
This that has been mentioned, Yeah, I think that's very fair. Yeah, fair. 00:53:43
Absolutely, yeah. 00:53:47
I I support making. 00:53:49
All of. 00:53:51
The existing. 00:53:52
Payments to date. 00:53:54
The only thing that I want to stop is. 00:53:55
I want to put the shovel down. 00:53:58
And uh. 00:54:01
Help. 00:54:02
The remediation. 00:54:02
I don't, you know the Nate and Pete. 00:54:04
To we have. 00:54:07
Don't do anymore hours until Chris Harding can. 00:54:08
Put the in reading his e-mail today and I can forward it to you just following what our auditors recommendations are. 00:54:12
Of saying from here on out OK we've. 00:54:19
We're closing that chapter of how it was done. 00:54:21
But please don't accrue another hour until and I think it's going to be a couple. 00:54:24
Two or three weeks. 00:54:29
Where he can get those practices, procedures. 00:54:31
And policies in place. 00:54:34
To then approve the project. 00:54:36
And have the shovels start again. How would you say how is Mr. Riddle on the call? 00:54:38
Yeah, maybe. 00:54:43
I'm not sure. 00:54:46
I don't think he is. See the board from here. 00:54:47
David Laraine, Cdr on there. 00:54:49
No. 00:54:52
No, no. 00:54:53
How would you feel about about continuing work but but holding off and receiving any invoices for say 3 weeks? 00:54:54
While we get that, we'll get in place ready to do that. And then we, we, we start with that at that point evaluating. 00:55:01
As they come in. 00:55:06
The the reason I'm asking about Mr. Riddle is because I think that you. 00:55:08
With your remark there. 00:55:12
Jake is. 00:55:14
You can't dictate. 00:55:16
What? Uh. 00:55:17
Someone does with the land that they own. 00:55:19
So you can't make them put down the shovel. 00:55:22
Yeah, yeah. Better, better. 00:55:24
It would be better to say, hey, we need to hold off on the invoicing until we have. 00:55:26
This system in place to one verify the work being done to. 00:55:30
Maybe more detailed invoicing, right? I think those are those were the two biggest complaints. 00:55:35
So Josh, do. 00:55:41
This last invoice is. 00:55:42
Through uh. 00:55:44
Was it the progress payment through? Would this be April? 00:55:45
Yeah. OK, So what we can do? 00:55:48
In the next three weeks, we can say on the next progress payment. 00:55:51
We need to see. 00:55:54
XY&Z. 00:55:55
Documentation happens all the time. 00:55:57
So and that will give us some time from. 00:56:01
From. 00:56:03
Right, OK. 00:56:04
I believe that will be good, yeah. Because to Parker's point. 00:56:05
It's their property. We can't. I mean, we can't. 00:56:09
So, yeah, so moved, yeah, OK, sounds good. So I'll do that in the director. 00:56:12
Direction, Jake, you good with that? 00:56:17
Sounds good. 00:56:19
OK, we'll get them signed. Then we will work on getting a new invoicing system to verify everything. So. 00:56:20
OK already. 00:56:27
That is the end of the RDA meeting. Thank you guys so much and. 00:56:29
We will adjourn. 00:56:32
If you talk about the invoice. 00:56:37
Chairman. 00:56:47
Yeah, you can work on everything. 00:56:48
That says, you know, you have to give us what you're doing like how it was verified or because right? Are you having, are you 00:56:52
having public works go out and verify if you're doing something out there, something right? We need a protection. 00:56:58
Yeah, it's it's an interesting. 00:57:09