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Event transcript
Hey, all righty. 00:12:02
What's the? 00:12:06
Let's go ahead and get started. It is May 19th, 2026. 00:12:08
It is 4/04. 00:12:12
PM I am Mayor Zach Stratton. 00:12:14
Call to order the City Council meeting. 00:12:16
I did not. 00:12:20
Get anyone lined up for Pledge of Allegiance. 00:12:21
But. 00:12:23
Holden, have you had the opportunity to say the pledge yet? 00:12:23
Or the prayer. 00:12:27
And earn a pin. 00:12:28
Holden needs a pen. So brother, we're going to turn the time to you to start us off with a prayer and. 00:12:31
Than the pledge. 00:12:36
All right. 00:12:37
Heavenly Father, we're grateful for this day and the opportunity we have to meet today to discuss the needs of the city of 00:12:40
Vineyard, and we're grateful. 00:12:42
For all the residents that are here today and those that are not, we ask for safety to be upon us and help us to have. 00:12:45
Thy spirit in our discussions today that we may be able to be able to be productive. 00:12:53
Do good work and we pray for these things. The name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:12:56
Amen. Please stand. 00:12:59
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:13:06
Of the United States of America. 00:13:08
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:13:11
One nation under God. 00:13:13
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:13:15
Awesome. Thank you. 00:13:22
All righty, we are going to open up the meeting with item number 3 here. Conflict of interest. Turn the time over to Council. 00:13:23
If there's anyone have comments or. 00:13:31
On this one. 00:13:33
All right, hearing none, we will jump to #4 public comments. If anyone's here from the public they would like to comment. 00:13:35
Please come on up, state your name. 00:13:41
And and. 00:13:44
We all good. 00:13:47
Looks like we mostly have staff here today. 00:13:48
OK, great. 00:13:50
All righty, we will now jump to our work session. 00:13:53
Decay. We wanted to do the. 00:13:57
The staff presentations first was that. 00:13:59
Yeah, on the budget. OK. Sounds good. 00:14:01
So I'm going to turn the time to David Karl to kind of run point on the. 00:14:04
The budget presentations and so forth. So go ahead. So we have. 00:14:09
Chief Deputy Holden here, and he's going to be leaving at 5:00 today and he would like to address council questions and concerns 00:14:13
about the. 00:14:19
The sheriff's budget. 00:14:28
For the following fiscal year. Awesome. Thank you. 00:14:30
Holding you kind of want to walk us through a high level real quick and then council, if there's any questions we will. 00:14:33
On that. 00:14:39
Yeah. So this was. 00:14:40
So the proposed budget right now? 00:14:44
Is to. 00:14:46
State status quo on staffing. 00:14:47
With our 18 sworn positions. 00:14:50
The two additional asks as far as budgets go this year. 00:14:52
One was for five additional cameras for our Flock camera system and then some person money for our Rad Women program. I know last 00:14:56
meeting there was a question on Rad Women. 00:15:00
We did a class here in Vineyard recently who was very well attended. That's a rape aggression defense class for women. 00:15:04
So kind of like a self-defense class? 00:15:11
We do it throughout the county as a Sheriff's Office. In Eagle Mountain, they do it as well. 00:15:14
And we just started that this year. And so that money will go towards some of the equipment that we use. 00:15:19
So there's like live scenarios that they do, they go, they go through in self-defense and we need some equipment to do that. And 00:15:23
so that's mostly what those those funds would be used for. 00:15:28
The one question, the other question is, and maybe some of the Council members may have asked this question, is the increase from 00:15:34
last year. 00:15:37
When we added three positions in January, those were only for half the fiscal year, obviously so. 00:15:40
That was only half the cost and so now this next year those three positions are at full cost for the for the fiscal year. And so 00:15:46
that was part of that jump in, in the in the cost and then as per the contract. 00:15:52
Some the positions the the cost goes up 4% every year unless the county incurs costs above that, then we can send the city a 00:15:58
notice of a higher increase. And we did that with a few positions. Some were 5% and some were up to the 6%. 00:16:05
Mostly in. 00:16:13
Or do because of. 00:16:15
Raise that the county gave the some some of the employees of the Sheriff's Office so that. 00:16:17
Increased cost to the Sheriff's Office in wage and benefits is. 00:16:23
The the reason for those larger increases so. 00:16:27
Great. 00:16:30
Kay Council, any questions with Holden? 00:16:32
On his. 00:16:34
As budget. 00:16:35
You mentioned. 00:16:37
An existing flock camera. 00:16:40
System umm. 00:16:42
How many cameras do we already have? 00:16:43
5. 00:16:45
And we're adding five more, yes. 00:16:46
So the flock conversation is a. 00:16:48
Phenomenal system that allows us. 00:16:50
Just for example, we recently had a theft at Lockheed Martin. 00:16:53
Someone of their big aluminum molds was stolen. Several of them were stolen out of their yard. 00:16:56
We solved it like in a day because of our flock camera systems. 00:17:02
You probably heard about the I think it was a double homicide in Wayne County this year. 00:17:05
That person was caught because of thought camera systems out in Colorado and there's dozens of other. We've had many more cases in 00:17:10
Vineyard that we've utilized the system to catch people, to catch people coming into our city that are. 00:17:16
Wanted or have you know? 00:17:22
Things like that. So. 00:17:24
For security purposes, you probably don't. 00:17:27
Say where they're at. 00:17:30
In the public, right, I mean, you can see them. We, we try to strategically place them for coming into the city or out of the city 00:17:31
so we can capture. 00:17:35
The vehicles that are coming or going and the reason for adding more is they only catch capture One Direction right now. And so 00:17:38
we'll be able to add more and capture both because there have been several cases where the guys are like man I. 00:17:43
It should be there, but it's not because they're going the opposite direction. 00:17:49
So with these flock cameras will we have? 00:17:52
Complete coverage over the city or getting close to complete very, very closely coverage, yes. 00:17:55
Great, so and one important thing for. 00:18:00
The privacy aspect of it, there's no facial recognition, data is only stored for 30 to 45 days, and we can only access it with a 00:18:03
legitimate law enforcement purpose. 00:18:08
So and if there's a complete audit trail of anything we access. 00:18:12
So. 00:18:16
One other question on the. 00:18:18
Contract. 00:18:20
The sheriff vehicles that you guys. 00:18:22
Use those are proportioned through the county and then. 00:18:24
The the fuel is that. 00:18:27
Covered in the contract or do we the city pay for the fuel? No so. 00:18:30
The contract cost breach position includes wage benefits, training, uniform allowance, computers, radios, vehicles, fuel, 00:18:34
insurance, all of it. So all those things are included in that. 00:18:39
Per deputy, per Sergeant, per chief Deputy Costa. That's established in that. 00:18:45
One of the questions I think that was asked also last council meeting was an. 00:18:49
Again, the question about equipment, for example, this year we're replacing, I believe it's six of our Tahoes in our fleet here in 00:18:54
Vineyard. And so those those get replaced every four years. 00:18:58
At the end of the life. 00:19:03
Technically, those vehicles belong to the city. 00:19:04
The county can either. There's two options. The city could. 00:19:07
We could turn the vehicles over to the city and they could utilize them as part of their fleet. 00:19:11
Or the county sells them at auction per this. 00:19:15
Auction rules. 00:19:18
And then whatever proceeds come from that auction. 00:19:19
That gets returned to the city in the form of a bill credit. So reduction in in whatever month. 00:19:22
Bill, that those coming at. 00:19:27
And so this year I mean in. 00:19:28
I believe last fiscal year we had. 00:19:30
I think it was close to $80,000 in bill credits because of the sale of vehicles. This year will probably be more than that because 00:19:33
of the amount of vehicles were. 00:19:37
We surplus how many we are, I think we're 66. So I mean we could potentially they're Tahoes that are in pretty good shape 00:19:41
depending on Wichita. I get I can't tell you exactly how much they'll sell for. They're probably close to 20,000 apiece. Okay, 00:19:46
roughly 20 grand. So we'll have a. 00:19:50
A decent statement credit, hopefully A6 figure. 00:19:56
You know, OK. 00:19:59
Statement or bill credit? 00:19:59
So awesome. 00:20:01
Any other questions? 00:20:03
David, Jacob, you guys concerns? 00:20:05
Go ahead, Ezra. 00:20:09
I know we talked about. 00:20:13
Code enforcement activities. 00:20:15
With the Sheriff's Department, a little bit. 00:20:17
I. 00:20:20
There's no increase for that. 00:20:22
Talk about. 00:20:25
How we're structuring. 00:20:26
So when David and David, Kyle and I have met and talked about code enforcement. 00:20:30
We could put it under meet anything about my umbrella, but at this time we've decided to keep that under the city umbrella and 00:20:35
then we'll just work in close conjunction with them. So there won't be any additional cost for us to work with Ed and whoever else 00:20:40
we hire in the code enforcement team. And so I don't know there's a need to add any dollars to that. We'll just work in close 00:20:45
conjunction with them and and cooperate as we as best we can to. 00:20:50
Make sure that we're. 00:20:55
Addressing the code enforcement needs. 00:20:57
So the only other thing that I mentioned, like we talked about status quo. 00:21:03
One of the things that in meeting with the mayor, he asked, like, how do we determine how many deputies we need? 00:21:07
One of the things that I look at is I'll talk to Chris over here and say, hey, how much more? How many? 00:21:11
Things do or units do we have under construction? We have quite a few under construction right now. 00:21:17
And if they were all filled up the day they got their certificate of occupancies, then we would probably need to increase our 00:21:22
staffing. But as we looked at it was decided, well we will. 00:21:26
Wait and see and readdress it and see how those those units fill up. 00:21:31
With people before we make a decision on staffing. 00:21:35
Walk us through real quick. 00:21:38
Holden, where do you like to be in terms of? 00:21:39
Sheriff per thousand. 00:21:43
Yeah, Right now I as a general rule, I have a goal of having us at one per 12150, so one deputy for every 12150 or one sworn 00:21:45
position for every 12150 residents, which is about right where we're at, depending on which. 00:21:51
Number you use for our population, right? 00:21:58
And that's not a hard and fast rules. We look at more than just that. We look at response times, call volume, types of calls were 00:22:01
going on. 00:22:04
The demographic of the city, how much influx of people are we having because of businesses? 00:22:09
You know, just type all those things. We look at it as a holistic view, not just here's a simple number, but right now as I look 00:22:14
at all those things, that's about where we'd like to be. 00:22:18
So. And I feel really good about that. 00:22:22
OK, great. 00:22:24
Very good counsel. Any other questions for Holden over his budget? 00:22:26
Proposed 20262027 Budget. 00:22:29
What's the dollar value associated with adding the flock camera specifically? 00:22:32
So each camera is $3000 a year, so it's $15,000. So will it be at a total of $30,000 for that system and that? 00:22:37
System any if the cameras go down, they replace them. If they need service, they service them. They're they're almost like a lease 00:22:44
thing so but they take care of it. You don't have to worry about any. 00:22:49
Equipment costs or fixing anything that way. 00:22:55
Software. Everything. 00:22:57
Everything's included story. 00:22:58
All data storage and so forth, everything's included in that. 00:23:00
OK, great. 00:23:03
OK, anything else, Council, before we go on to the next one? 00:23:04
Thank you for adjusting for me. 00:23:10
You're awesome. 00:23:12
Did we have any other staff Did? 00:23:14
DK Did we need to have other stuff reports? 00:23:16
Good on that. OK. 00:23:21
I I had one thing we. 00:23:25
Had an awesome meeting today about the budget with Evans and their. 00:23:27
Capital improvements and. 00:23:31
Working with. 00:23:33
Them. 00:23:34
There were quite a few capital improvement projects in there. 00:23:35
Brought over from the previous administration. 00:23:38
And one of the things I just wanted to get a consensus with counsel. 00:23:41
Is to just. 00:23:45
Could we ask department heads to review? 00:23:46
Those capital improvement projects and just ensure that they align with the new council and that. 00:23:49
We would actually. 00:23:55
Build what we're planning. There's certain things in there that. 00:23:56
We found 2 Tucker Rowe and. 00:24:00
The wetland delineation, but there could be more so like if you could just. 00:24:02
Instruct staff to like. 00:24:06
Review that and go. 00:24:08
Is this actually going to be built and? 00:24:10
If you feel. 00:24:12
There's any question that? 00:24:16
It might not be just. 00:24:17
Bring it to our attention, because I think we. 00:24:19
Looked through all of them. 00:24:20
But don't want to. 00:24:22
Have any others? 00:24:23
That sounds good. And with that, could we ask maybe for the? 00:24:27
The department recommendation. 00:24:33
What's a priority? What's? 00:24:35
More urgent than not. 00:24:37
Because when we looked at those capital expenditures, I think there's like $5.7 million associated with those this year. 00:24:39
In this year's budget. 00:24:45
There was some things that I think are more nice to have versus a need, so maybe just assess the. 00:24:47
Nature of urgency with those. 00:24:52
Well, and that's one of the reasons. 00:24:55
We brought up the budget today was to. 00:24:58
Have this discussion and in the next meeting. 00:25:00
City Council meeting and work session. It'd be great to. 00:25:04
Continue this discussion because everybody. 00:25:08
The more eyes the better. On the budget, absolutely. 00:25:11
Well, nobody's going to get offended. 00:25:15
By you know, hate changes or we, you know we're. 00:25:16
Everyone. 00:25:20
Sometimes the change is hard, you know, and we lie. 00:25:22
But everyone's been real team player. 00:25:26
The staff are really stepped. They have, yeah. 00:25:29
Awesome. 00:25:32
All righty, let's jump now over to our. 00:25:33
Item 5.1 Tree inventory and planting updates. 00:25:36
We got George, Preston and Blaine here. 00:25:39
You guys ready? 00:25:42
Awesome brother, come on down. 00:25:44
I'm ready for a I'm feeling a great PowerPoint coming on. Well, I'm feeling it. PowerPoint. Whatever, George. 00:25:47
Slay it. It's really 22 parts of this. PowerPoint 1 is our proposed planting plan for this year. 00:25:55
And then the second one is a, you know, potential for a light archery inventory, which is kind of the latest and greatest way to 00:26:01
to manage our urban forests, so. 00:26:05
Just start with a little background. Tree City, USA designated in 2020. 00:26:12
The requirements be. 00:26:17
Three CSA is. 00:26:18
Maintain a tree board. 00:26:19
Or department. 00:26:21
Have community tree ordinance. 00:26:21
Spend $2.00 per capita on urban forestry and celebrate the Arbor Day. 00:26:23
The benefits Environmental health, clean air, increased property values, I mean curb appeal, stormwater improvement quality, 00:26:29
enhanced community pride. 00:26:32
And we take great pride with the Tree State USA designation. Not only is it just, you know, shows that we're working the care and 00:26:36
effort into our urban forest. 00:26:39
You know you plant. 00:26:43
OK, let me see. 00:26:46
Sorry. 00:26:49
So here's our proposed tree planting plan. Grove Park is where we'd like to do a bunch of the plantings. 00:26:51
Original design plan from Grove Park. 00:26:56
Now this was before any of our time, I think probably. 00:26:59
In the room, most likely when this park was was installed as far as staff is concerned, you can see all the trees there. 00:27:03
Mark in red are trees that are missing. 00:27:11
Oh wow, that have been removed. 00:27:14
And so I mean, I'm sure your first question is? 00:27:16
Why are these trees missing? Right? I mean, obviously that's. 00:27:19
That's our first question. 00:27:22
But six years ago when I was hired, the first two weeks my employment here was spent going to every single one of these trees in 00:27:24
Grove Park and a couple of the other adjacent areas. 00:27:28
And uh. 00:27:33
I'm going to skip through a slide real quick. 00:27:34
Removing bald and burlap, not only Baldwin burlap, but the twine that was basically suffocating these trees. So they find it too 00:27:36
deep. You know, Unfortunately we didn't have a city harvest on staff when these were planted. There's a little bit of oversight. 00:27:40
The park went in really quick. 00:27:44
But it was detrimental to trees. We're talking anywhere from six inches to two feet planted too deep. 00:27:48
Dive back in all the trees. Obviously we pruned out the dive back and did our best to remove all of the balder burlap. 00:27:53
The lower picture you can see it looks like a telephone planted in the ground. There's no trunk flare on that. Trees really like 00:27:59
to be they have to be planted a specific depth. If it's deeper than that than than this kind of a long flow depth. Some do better 00:28:03
than others. 00:28:06
Our ash trees, you know, they struggle along and survive, but. 00:28:11
Anyway, that's how we got to where we're at. 00:28:14
West Grove Park, but we've made leaps and strides. 00:28:16
You know, forward. 00:28:19
That's our proposed tree planting plan. Everything in red was a London plain trees. It's not just here in Utah, but they have died 00:28:22
back all across the waste restaurant. I've been to many, many seminars. There's a few people that are successfully, you know, you 00:28:26
know. 00:28:29
Keeping the historic trees alive like BYU has a good man's plan, but it's not feasible for a city like us in a budgetary budget. 00:28:33
We have to do that. So we're really what we're trying to do is the right tree, the right place and kind of start fresh in the. 00:28:38
Military so. 00:28:43
Making it better. So providing we have a proven period now within the city, yet we have to have anyone that plans the city tree on 00:28:48
city property has to have an ISA certified arborist on site for a proofing period to ensure that they're falling proper. 00:28:54
You know industry standards and planning practices to make sure that we're our investments are going in the right direction. 00:29:00
Policies. We have policies set in place to back all that up. 00:29:08
Soil testing volumes and types. We require that they have proper, adequate soil volumes for the size of trees. 00:29:13
Just keep going, you left. 00:29:19
But and then, you know, we have tree manual, our tree manual with diversity requirements to ensure that we're not losing large 00:29:21
rows of trees like we have in the past, like the London Plain problem. That way if we have an insect or disease or damage that 00:29:25
comes in, we're not losing. 00:29:30
An entire St. worth of trees. 00:29:34
Reoccurring tree and landscape inspections obviously are. 00:29:37
Or another thing that we do. 00:29:40
With new plantings especially. 00:29:42
So that's kind of the presentation for our proposed. 00:29:47
Tree plantings in Grove Park, we do have the budget for that. 00:29:50
You know, if approved, we could. 00:29:54
Begin with that. 00:29:57
Pretty soon. 00:29:58
Are you, are we planning on? 00:29:59
Replant any trees outside of Grove Park or just focusing on girl park you know this this year so kind of the way that we've been 00:30:01
doing this is is going through sections like we've yeah Main Street. I'm sure you guys are aware it's been kind of a mess. We had 00:30:05
some irrigation issues there is the irrigation system was designed put in. 00:30:10
Before Grove Park was even put in, as soon as we overcame those hurdles, we we now have a radio communicating irrigation system 00:30:15
because the two hour path failed on the entire system. We were hand watering those zones for for two years by hand all forty of 00:30:19
those zones. 00:30:23
And you know well, how big of a mess that is. So as soon as we've fixed the hurdles and the problems that we've had, we've we've 00:30:28
been able to replace those trees. This is this is just another phase of it. We're planning just Grove Park. 00:30:33
You know, we, we, we shoot for 50 trees with the staff that we have, it gives us. 00:30:40
You know, uh. 00:30:43
We want to make sure that those trees that we plant have the proper clarity needs of the establishment period and that's our sweet 00:30:44
spot. We can we can watch those for the first two to three years of their. 00:30:49
Great. We're well over 90% survival rate on our our newly planted trees now in the city, so. 00:30:53
Any other questions on that first half? 00:31:01
As far as the planting plan is concerned. 00:31:03
Sorry if I missed this. If if there's a. 00:31:06
Like a dead tree and a parks trip that a resident wants to. 00:31:09
Report. Can they? 00:31:12
Just do that on the report concern or is there a different portal where I dealt with those kind of issues all the time? In fact, I 00:31:14
absolutely love. 00:31:17
Working with residents and trees, for one it, you know, I could get out and see what's going on, but it's an education. 00:31:20
Thing as well but yeah, report a concern is great. We'd be happy me or Blaine or. 00:31:26
Press and happy to. 00:31:31
The dress also. 00:31:33
I got a question. 00:31:35
Is it? Is it? 00:31:39
Viable for. 00:31:41
A part a city to. 00:31:43
Plant their own trees in specific sections. 00:31:45
With the idea of moving them? Or is it just cheaper just to buy them and plant them in? 00:31:49
If we had extra, when you said that tree and trees are expensive, when you said that, it took me directly to Harriman City. I've 00:31:56
been in the articles world for a couple decades now, but we did a tour of Harriman City where they're doing the tree plant. They 00:32:00
buy, they buy. 00:32:05
Bare root trees and have, you know, a farm where they farm them themselves. I don't know how viable it was for him. I know that he 00:32:10
did have some success, but as far as the effort that went into it. 00:32:14
Versus compared to what they're getting out of it. A lot of the trees that we're planting here are coming from the Northwest where 00:32:19
they have ideal conditions for for. 00:32:23
Starting trees, right, they don't have to worry about irrigation, they don't have to worry about climate problems. They they grow 00:32:26
really fast and well, they dig them up, they send them down to us. Another thing that I've noticed, like trees, is they're bald 00:32:30
and burlapped. I'd like to look for the best nursery stock I can get, obviously. 00:32:34
The price that we pay for the trees is important, but the quality of the nursery stock is equally, if not more important. 00:32:39
Absolutely, because we don't want to. We want to be a head foot ahead when we start rather than a foot behind with some cheap. 00:32:44
Cheap stock so. 00:32:49
You know, you have a tree that's stored for too long. If it's Baltimore left, it starts its roots. You're you're tearing them off 00:32:51
again. 00:32:54
Or a container ice tree. If it's in that container too long, you're going to get circling roots. 00:32:57
Obviously, I mean, that's that's not a good thing because. 00:33:02
When we pulled that bucket off, we remove those or sever those so they're. 00:33:04
Pull them out right. So we're removing a lot of that root grill, so. 00:33:08
Like from my experience and especially at Wieners standpoint with our budget and the size that we are. 00:33:11
Like we're best off to go for the best stock we can get to put in the ground right from the get go. I didn't know if you were 00:33:16
constrained or hay. In a great world we could do this or save money. I wanted you. 00:33:21
Free to just say hey if I. 00:33:26
Could approach this a different way? I would, and I wanted you to freely think about that so. 00:33:29
Great. Yeah, I appreciate that. 00:33:33
Is this primarily funded out of the same $2.00 per capita as the Tree City budget or is this a separate budget item? Well, so the 00:33:35
way that the $2.00 per capita work and it's, it's great for us because we can use volunteer hours as well. 00:33:42
Our all of our crews put together volunteer stuff where we do. 00:33:48
Well announced mitigation for invasive species and all of those. 00:33:51
Hours. 00:33:54
Go towards that dollar amount. 00:33:55
So we couldn't meet that. I mean, we, we do have a budget that can get close to meeting that, but between our wages, between that, 00:33:57
between our volunteer help that we have. 00:34:01
And all these projects. 00:34:04
Kind of tie together to give us that dollar amount. It's not like we're just putting the whole entire bill where a lot of Labor 00:34:05
and volunteer work goes into that as well, which we've had really good success with. 00:34:10
My last question is, is have you taken a look at the new Clegg Park? 00:34:17
Design and Cadence Home is going to be presenting in the. 00:34:22
Budget but. 00:34:26
Looking at the. 00:34:27
Trees they would be planting and types and stuff. Is that still not? 00:34:28
I've seen like 1000 foot view of it. We would definitely be involved in that. I'm sure. Look, look through that and we do have a 00:34:31
tree inventory that that, that. 00:34:35
All right, sorry I'm I apologize or tree manual. 00:34:38
That directs what trees can and can be planted. But we do have a flexibility clause in that manual as well, right? Like I don't 00:34:41
want to be hard noses that you can't plant this tree, but I. 00:34:44
If you have one you'd like to propose. 00:34:48
We'd love to take a look at it and improve that so. 00:34:50
Right, OK. 00:34:55
OK, great. Do you want to? 00:34:59
Tree Inventory. 00:35:01
Yeah, we'll move on to free inventory, so. 00:35:02
We do have an existing tree inventory we use. It's kind of a traditional, I guess you could say tree inventory. 00:35:05
Where we manage all the trees, we have all 2100 trees. 00:35:11
Here in Vineyard, for the most part, there's a few. 00:35:15
You know updates that need to be done to that. 00:35:17
But we have an inventory that we use as a management tool to kind of direct where we're going with our, with our, with our. 00:35:19
Money and efforts. 00:35:25
Light archery inventory is kind of the latest and greatest. 00:35:28
Some of the benefits. 00:35:31
Well, I'll just read to my slide. It'll help me organize a little bit. So the tree inventory, we have 2200. 00:35:33
Approximately 2200 city trees in Vineyard. 00:35:38
Inspecting what we have obviously structure Brad's enhancement, health clearance. 00:35:42
Measurements. 00:35:47
Photos. We can do all that with our existing tree inventory. 00:35:48
The problem with our existing Crematory is. 00:35:51
All of that stuff requires. 00:35:54
Boots in the field. 00:35:56
It's subjective to the arborist or the person who's taken the the data in. 00:35:57
So there's. 00:36:01
You know, and you think 2200 trees, if we were to totally go through and inspect everyone of those trees, you're looking at a 00:36:02
minimum 15 minutes to tree or 20 minutes to tree. You know that that adds up really fast. We're spending a lot of our resources. 00:36:08
On the people that are. 00:36:14
Taken or collecting this? 00:36:16
Subjective. 00:36:19
Or could be subjective data. 00:36:20
The nice thing with the Lidar, it's non subjective data. 00:36:22
That goes out in billions of points. They can create a 3D. 00:36:26
Clone of the tree. 00:36:29
As you can see in these in these photos, it kind of gives you an idea of what it looks like. 00:36:31
It's non subjective data. 00:36:35
Report of each. 00:36:37
Leaf area measurements help photos 3D model reduce costs through targeted and early interventions so. 00:36:38
The way it's the way I look at it is. 00:36:45
Just it would better focus our efforts. 00:36:49
Rather than collecting the data. 00:36:52
To to maximizing our resources to put them into the care. 00:36:54
And. 00:36:57
You know the needs of the urban forest. 00:36:58
This is real quick. I'll just go through some of the attributes that we collect and this is for, this is some of the stuff they 00:37:01
collect for the light archery inventory, growth form, tree status, taxonomy. So it'll tell us what the tree is. 00:37:07
H class. It goes through dimensions obviously like Earth. 00:37:14
Trunk height, DBH measurements, diameter, breast height right? So it gives us this quantitative data. 00:37:17
Total height. 00:37:22
Crown at base height spread. 00:37:24
I'll continue over tree protection zones. It'll identify if there's construction going on, what what kind of. 00:37:26
Zone should happen. It'll tell us. 00:37:30
You know, like non subjective data on the benefits of the tree, the ecosystem services. 00:37:33
So how much water does rainwater is this? 00:37:39
Tree, you know. 00:37:41
Offset evaporation transportation. 00:37:43
Water intercepted carbon storage, oxygen production. It'll kind of give us an idea of where the urban forest is at and and and in 00:37:46
value as far as. 00:37:50
You know, to the environment. 00:37:54
And then structural. 00:37:56
Metrics this will really help. 00:37:57
Focus like our pruning practices and things like that, so. 00:37:59
Truck stability index Critical wind speed tell you how much wind that tree can handle. 00:38:02
The wall thickness of the tree, the lean and the angle. 00:38:06
And the great thing about this data is that I could pull this up in my office and say, show me all the trees that have brown die 00:38:10
back. 00:38:13
And it'll populate all that I can send my crews out to. 00:38:16
You know, umm. 00:38:19
With work orders to treat each individual tree rather than collecting the data and then. 00:38:20
Doing this, doing that. 00:38:24
The service. 00:38:25
Health vitality, that's a great one. It'll show you the leaf area, the index, live crown ratio, as we talked about crown dieback. 00:38:27
Density. 00:38:34
And then obviously it'll track the history, and this is a huge one, clearances. So right now we have a 12 foot clearance over all 00:38:38
of our roadways, 8 foot over all of our sidewalks. 00:38:42
Again. 00:38:46
It'll pull out all of the outliers. 00:38:47
You just go to the, you know you go to that section of of the the inventory. 00:38:49
You click on it, it will populate a map. We can be like, OK, this week we're focusing on this street. 00:38:53
And here are the individual trees that need to happen and collect that data. Take a picture when you're done with it and it. 00:38:58
Pops it right into the inventory. So basically we're. 00:39:03
Adding non subjective data to our existing inventory and we can pull all of our old data and just tie the both of them together. 00:39:06
And I don't have the cost sheet in there, but for that light archery inventory. So I've been, I've been talking, this has been out 00:39:15
for quite some time. I've been talking with Anne, she's with Davey Tree, those ones who provide this. 00:39:20
American Fork City has been utilizing their laboratory inventory for about 3 years now, four years somewhere in that area. 00:39:26
Lehigh City is now getting their tree inventories. They're doing the largest a large number of their trees. 00:39:33
Real close friends with with with Jessica Smith over there as well. 00:39:36
And then University of Utah is doing it this year. 00:39:40
So for them to come out do this Lidar inventory, they have to have a minimum of 10,000 trees to make it profitable for them to do 00:39:42
it. 00:39:45
But from the relationships that I've got, some of the local people that are offering it to us. 00:39:48
To piggyback off of them, right, so we're not paying all of that big overhead that makes sense to get them out here. And then just 00:39:53
right to the hard numbers like it's, it's 40K to do the entire, just under that, to do the entire inventory. We could break that 00:39:58
into two years. 00:40:02
And I do have contract services budget. 00:40:07
Left. That would cover probably the best portion of half of that for. 00:40:09
You know, to get it started. 00:40:13
We have the contract services budget. We've been doing a lot of the planting and printing stuff in house. So that's kind of way we 00:40:15
haven't utilized as much of that lately. 00:40:19
OK. 00:40:24
Already. Thank you. 00:40:25
Any questions for George here? 00:40:27
Trees this tree resignation. 00:40:29
OK. All righty hearing none. Thank you so much. 00:40:33
Thank you. 00:40:37
All righty, we are going to jump down to next is 5.2 discussion of the. 00:40:41
20262029 City manager responsibilities and duties. 00:40:45
Oh, you guys are next. You guys come up. 00:40:53
We'll do that. You guys are here. 00:40:55
Talk city manager stuff after you're done. 00:41:00
I think so. 00:41:06
Do you want? 00:41:10
Yeah, well, I'm Chris Thomas, the. 00:41:12
Streets and stormwater manager for here in Vineyard. I want to thank the council mayor for giving us a few moments here to. 00:41:16
Talk about something that I'm kind of passionate about. 00:41:23
Which is roadways here being a road manager but. 00:41:26
Pavement preservation is just a really important part of what we do. 00:41:31
We have. 00:41:35
A really unique opportunity here. 00:41:37
With our roads being so young, we you know the. 00:41:40
Majority of our roadways are. 00:41:43
You know, 10 to 12 years. 00:41:46
Old at the most. 00:41:48
And so. 00:41:50
Not a lot of cities can can say that. If you drive through some of the older cities, you'll. 00:41:51
You'll drive through a lot of potholes. 00:41:56
A lot of. 00:41:58
Roadways that are not in great shape and. 00:41:59
And that's simply because you know, they're old and you know most cities are underfunded with. 00:42:02
You know their their roadway preservation and. 00:42:07
But here in Vineyard, we we do have. 00:42:10
A really, you know, unique opportunity to to maintain our roadways there. 00:42:13
There are possibly our biggest. 00:42:17
Investment that we have in our infrastructure here. 00:42:20
So it you know it, it it. 00:42:23
You know. 00:42:25
It's entirely. 00:42:28
For lack of a better term, we should be spending more money on that than anything else. 00:42:34
As far as our. 00:42:40
Infrastructure goes. 00:42:42
Up above here, why do we? 00:42:44
Preserve our pavements well. 00:42:46
The more. 00:42:50
We treat our. 00:42:52
Payments, the longer they're going to last and you can see some of these. 00:42:54
Numbers may be a little bit outdated and you know this is preservation work should begin 7 to 10. 00:42:57
Years after that's I mean. 00:43:01
Now it's. 00:43:03
They want it to begin. 00:43:04
You know immediately if it's possible. We haven't. 00:43:06
Been able to do that here. 00:43:09
But we, we do try to get on our roadways, you know, between three and five years. 00:43:11
After. 00:43:15
They've been. 00:43:16
Constructed. 00:43:18
You can see preservation costs a dollar. 00:43:20
Rehabilitation $4.00 and I think. 00:43:23
All of that's gone up. 00:43:26
Exponentially. 00:43:27
Today, but this is the. 00:43:30
The slide that we have. 00:43:32
And so you know. 00:43:34
You can see. 00:43:35
Each time you do a preservation treatment, it brings that road back up to. 00:43:36
You know. 00:43:41
Close to where we want it to be. And then over over the years it degrades again and then we do another treatment and it brings it 00:43:41
back up to where we want it to be and that's how we. 00:43:45
Keep that. 00:43:49
That life. 00:43:50
You know, going. 00:43:52
A couple of years back we did a pavement condition assessment. We had horror, horror. 00:43:56
Engineering. 00:44:02
Do that and. 00:44:03
We were able to identify all of the roads in the city and kind of. 00:44:06
Understand where the problem areas are and where we needed to work on. 00:44:11
We try to keep the. 00:44:16
The whole city. 00:44:18
You get that in the next slide, but we try to keep the whole city basically at a. 00:44:19
7 out of 10 level. 00:44:23
For they call it a paser rating or. 00:44:26
PCI rating. It's essentially like a one to 10 rating. 00:44:30
With that pavement condition assessment, we're able to. 00:44:34
You know, attack the roadways that. 00:44:38
We feel need at the most and. 00:44:41
That doesn't always mean. 00:44:43
The roads that look the worst either. 00:44:44
Because sometimes monies are better spent. 00:44:46
Keeping a. 00:44:49
Good Rd. Good. 00:44:50
Than trying to make a bad Rd. 00:44:51
Better. 00:44:53
Then you can see on on this map. This is kind of. 00:44:57
The the green indicates you know where we're good. We actually have quite a bit more green that should be on here. 00:45:00
That we did last year. 00:45:08
In our. 00:45:09
With our payment. 00:45:11
Preservation so. 00:45:13
All of that roadway, all the way. 00:45:15
Loop Rd. Main St. 00:45:17
Let's see here. 00:45:22
We did the gardens. 00:45:23
La chamat. 00:45:26
All of those should be Bridgeport, all those would be green now, so. 00:45:27
Where we want to keep that. 00:45:32
That nice. 00:45:34
So. 00:45:35
This is kind of like a five year plan. We have, you know, our 15 year strategy, but you know, keeping it within this focus of a 00:45:38
five year plan. 00:45:42
This is a map of the. 00:45:47
The roadways that we plan to do in the next 5 years, you can see 2026 we'd like to get. 00:45:50
Vineyard Rd. 00:45:56
As it ties up into 400 N and then up 300 W by. 00:45:57
Lakefront. 00:46:03
So we're already seeing some areas where we've got potholes. If you drive along that road, you'll see where we've made several 00:46:04
repairs along the way. We're going to need to make more. 00:46:09
These are the type of. 00:46:15
Things that. 00:46:16
That started to tell us that a road is kind of getting to a tipping point and really. 00:46:17
When we did loop roll last year, we were starting to see. 00:46:24
A lot of raveling we had to. 00:46:27
Make some asphalt repairs. Cut out, make some repairs. 00:46:29
You know, just a lot of potholing and things of that nature that. 00:46:33
If you let the road decline from there, it really goes downhill fast. 00:46:37
And so that's why, you know, these roads, you know, we want to. 00:46:42
They may not. 00:46:46
You know as you drive over them they may not look like. 00:46:47
You know at that point yet, but. 00:46:49
We're just seeing some characteristics that tell us. 00:46:52
This is the best place to spend our money. 00:46:55
This year. 00:46:57
So. 00:46:59
And then you can see the treatments through the dotted line and the solid line being BMO, which is a bonded matrix. It's a. 00:47:00
Chip seal with with the HA5 top coat. 00:47:09
It's a more robust treatment that. 00:47:13
Treatment we would use for. 00:47:15
Your collectors roads ha five. We would use more in residential subdivisions. 00:47:17
So. 00:47:24
Yeah. So that's kind of our, our five year plan, is it? 00:47:27
Looks there. 00:47:33
Why pavement preservation is kind of a little bit. 00:47:36
Of redundant, but I wanted to talk about, you know, kind of like. 00:47:39
A different strategy or different? 00:47:44
Way to analyze pavement preservation. 00:47:46
If you have a car and you. 00:47:50
You. 00:47:52
You you don't change your oil. 00:47:55
You know, umm. 00:47:56
Often you might save a few dollars by doing that. 00:47:57
Well, asphalt seconded the same way if you don't. 00:48:01
Preserve it. 00:48:04
Overtime. 00:48:05
It'll just go bad on you really fast. 00:48:06
And it cost a lot of money down the road. 00:48:09
It's kind of, you know, the same way with the car if you don't change your oil. 00:48:12
It will. 00:48:15
You know you're going to have engine problems and it's going to be. 00:48:16
Catastrophic cost. 00:48:20
To your pocketbook. 00:48:21
And so we're trying to avoid that and, you know, pavement preservation. 00:48:23
Upfront. 00:48:27
Is much less. 00:48:29
Expense than. 00:48:31
If we wait. 00:48:32
And push it down the road. 00:48:33
So. 00:48:35
And then this is that chart, like I was saying, you can kind of see the. 00:48:39
The curve there where it. 00:48:42
You know, pavement. 00:48:44
Condition goes down, then you do a treatment and it comes back up. 00:48:45
And it goes down again, and then it comes back up. 00:48:49
Those are those are the type of that. 00:48:52
Things that we're looking for when we do. 00:48:54
Preservation. You get that road. 00:48:56
Quality. 00:48:58
Back up into that acceptable range and each time we do it. 00:48:59
You know it's keeping the road nice for. 00:49:03
A longer and longer period. 00:49:06
Costs to build roads and rebuild roads. 00:49:10
Are just skyrocketing, I mean. 00:49:15
It's why it's so important that we really take care of the roads that we have because. 00:49:18
You know, if you look at. 00:49:23
You know it's a million and a half to $2,000,000 per mile to reconstruct a Rd. 00:49:24
So you know. 00:49:29
It's just it's, it's really. 00:49:31
The car. 00:49:34
You know oil change theory if you. 00:49:36
If you do it. 00:49:38
When you should. 00:49:39
You'll get a long life out of it. 00:49:41
And you know if we don't. 00:49:43
These are the kind of costs that we're looking at. 00:49:45
We so last year. 00:49:51
When we did. 00:49:53
Pavement preservation, we kind of learned. 00:49:54
Some of the. 00:49:57
Some of the. 00:49:58
Things that we did wrong. 00:50:01
We've we've kind of worked together to in house to. 00:50:02
To kind of try and fix some of those issues. 00:50:06
We want to make sure we're communicating or we want to have a website. 00:50:10
You know, an interactive map. 00:50:14
So that residents can get online and see what we're doing. 00:50:15
We want to have communication with HOA boards. 00:50:20
And you know, obviously identify solutions for parking. 00:50:23
When we're doing. 00:50:28
Treatments in neighborhoods and other roadways. 00:50:29
We want to make sure we're educating people why we're doing the treatments because a lot of people sometimes. 00:50:34
They're driving by or we'll see comments about. 00:50:39
This road was perfectly fine. Why are we? 00:50:42
Why are we trading this road, you know? 00:50:45
We want to make sure that we're making sure that. 00:50:47
We're we're educating people on what we're doing. 00:50:49
And why we do it? 00:50:52
We also want to have some weekly coordination meetings. 00:50:54
With with staff in. 00:50:57
Make sure that we're keeping everybody. 00:51:00
Council included. 00:51:02
In the loop on. 00:51:04
You know our schedules and. 00:51:05
And things like that and update as we go along because? 00:51:08
Weather and different things. 00:51:11
'Cause changes in schedule so. 00:51:15
We want to make sure that everyone is. 00:51:17
In the loop on that. 00:51:20
And I think that's all I've got is. 00:51:23
Anybody have any questions for me? 00:51:25
I have a couple real quick. 00:51:28
Question. Yeah. So Chris? 00:51:30
Now we we have a contractor that does this for us, right? You guys understand? 00:51:32
And do we have? 00:51:35
I guess in previous years we've had a situations where the. 00:51:39
We didn't really QA the road really well when it was done. 00:51:42
And this is before your time and so forth, but do we have a system in place to make sure that we're inspecting that to make sure 00:51:45
that we're getting the service or we need? Yeah. 00:51:49
Oh yeah, yeah, we're. 00:51:54
I mean, we're. 00:51:56
Right there with them, you know? 00:51:57
Through the whole process, I mean, we're. 00:51:59
We're making sure that we get everything. 00:52:02
Squared away. 00:52:04
For instance, a couple years ago we had a resident that. 00:52:06
Drove through. 00:52:08
You know a roadway after it was just barely treated. 00:52:09
We, I'll introduce Aaron here in a minute, but we, we had Aaron. 00:52:13
Come out and. 00:52:18
You know, they they were able to retreat the whole thing and. 00:52:19
I think, you know, I want to, I do want to highlight, you know, Aaron Eppley with Holbrook asphalt. He's also here to talk about. 00:52:22
Some of the. 00:52:30
Other. 00:52:32
Nuts and bolts to. 00:52:33
Pavement preservation, but. 00:52:35
The city has had a long standing relationship with Holbrook. I think it's been. 00:52:37
10 plus years, maybe 12 years. 00:52:41
That Holbrooke has been here in the in the city. It's the only treatments that's that's been down here. 00:52:44
We've had a really good relationship. They. 00:52:50
Have been excellent to. 00:52:52
Come back and do warranty work. 00:52:54
And we've worked really well with them, so. 00:52:57
We're grateful to have them on board with this. They they provide a really good product. 00:53:00
If anyone wants to look. 00:53:05
In 2022. 00:53:06
We had a. 00:53:09
When we took over the roadways for. 00:53:11
The business park up on 1600 N area. 00:53:14
On 1600 N 400 E and. 00:53:17
A little bit of 1750 we put. 00:53:20
Yeah, well, they put down. 00:53:22
Road treatment up there. 00:53:26
At the that same year, we put down a road treatment on 170 S. 00:53:28
If you're ever interested in driving up there, go drive through those roadways and. 00:53:32
And look at the treatment that. 00:53:36
Well, that is no longer there. 00:53:38
And then go drive on 170 S and you'll see the difference in. 00:53:40
In those two products, so. 00:53:44
Yeah. Any other questions? 00:53:47
I just want to say I love your suggestion about making a website and. 00:53:50
And, you know, using it to inform residents on what is actually happening, why it's happening, that can be really helpful. Yep, 00:53:53
Yep. There's something we should pursue. So. 00:53:56
Yeah. Thank you for that suggestion. Yeah. 00:54:00
Appreciate it. 00:54:02
With that said. 00:54:04
I want to introduce Aaron Eppley from Holbrook Asphalt. He's going to come up and and give a little presentation here. Awesome. 00:54:06
Thank you. 00:54:09
Let me see if I can switch that over. 00:54:14
While he's switching that over. 00:54:21
Are there? 00:54:22
Are there private roads on this pavement condition map too? 00:54:24
Looks like there's. 00:54:27
Potentially some. 00:54:29
They're shown on there, but they're not. 00:54:32
Thank you, Chris. 00:54:39
You bet. 00:54:40
Hey I want to hijack this for a minute. 00:54:41
On a personal note, I don't know if this is the appropriate place or not. 00:54:43
I've been working, like Chris said, I've been working with the city here for I think it's over 13 years now. 00:54:48
And one of the gentlemen. 00:54:54
That I first started working with. 00:54:55
He's no longer with us. 00:54:57
I just want to know, have you guys done anything to honor him? 00:54:59
In Ursin Dawn. 00:55:03
Yeah, we don't. 00:55:05
Don Oliverson, he was a fantastic man. 00:55:06
I didn't always see eye to eye with him. He beat me up on a few things but I just. I just thought he was fantastic and I feel like 00:55:09
he had a huge. 00:55:13
Part in your guys's development and growth. 00:55:17
And I was just thinking to myself, I was sitting down over there and I was like, man, if you guys ever. 00:55:20
In your growth if you ever have a park or a golf tournament. 00:55:24
Call it the Don Overson Memorial, because the guy deserves it. 00:55:27
Yeah, it was awesome. I really liked. We named our water tank after. I did not know that. 00:55:31
So I don't know, that's just kind of a personal note. I really like working with him and like I say, him and I didn't always see 00:55:38
eye to eye and he held my feet to the fire on more than one occasion. 00:55:42
But I thought he was. He did a really good job for you guys. 00:55:45
So like Chris talked to me about, I'm going to take you down a road to show you something. 00:55:50
You guys are not in this boat yet. 00:55:55
But I do. I teach classes all over the country on essentials of lowering the cost of managing roads. 00:55:58
The roads are your most expensive asset that you have. 00:56:04
Every city. 00:56:07
Agencies challenge can become political and media focused and that's horrible. When that happens, it's absolutely horrible. 00:56:10
I work with the city. 00:56:16
In Southern. 00:56:18
Arizona called Tucson. 00:56:19
And about 25. 00:56:21
Years ago, their staff and their City Council decided that they did not believe in pavement preservation. 00:56:22
And it went on for several years. I started working with them. 00:56:29
About 1213 years ago and I've been through. 00:56:32
Oh, I don't know, five to seven different Staffs. 00:56:35
Because they were just trying to figure stuff out. 00:56:38
And it got so bad that. 00:56:40
Whenever the city would do something, so they do a festival. 00:56:42
And it would get published in the paper. Hey, they could have fixed 11,000 potholes. Or if they funded support for a local theater 00:56:45
they could have fixed 148. 00:56:48
1000 potholes and you know, so it got really bad and political, it got so bad. 00:56:52
That they changed the church to Save Our Streets Christian Church. That's what the title of the church was. 00:56:58
They're doing better now. 00:57:03
But what I'm saying is they neglected their roads. 00:57:06
20 years ago. 00:57:08
And they're playing catch up now. 00:57:10
You guys are in such a lucky place right now to where your infrastructure is young, you have the ability to manage those roads for 00:57:12
a long period of time and the roads are going to wear out. 00:57:16
They are, but do they wear out in 20 years, 25 years? 00:57:21
35 years, 45 years, it costs whatever it costs to build it. 00:57:24
But to 20 year old? 00:57:28
That's not a very good. 00:57:30
ROI. 00:57:31
If it's a 40 year old road, that's a really good ROI. 00:57:32
And that's where I see your roads going. 00:57:35
If you guys continue to do this, I work with about 50 to 65 cities a year depending on the year. 00:57:37
Every single one of them. 00:57:43
Everyone of them is underfunded when it comes to their Rd. network. 00:57:44
And it's hard to understand that because that is. 00:57:48
Your most expensive asset that you guys have to take care of in your cities so. 00:57:51
I just kind of wanted to go through this a little bit. 00:57:56
So the city went, Tucson city went and they they hired an engineering firm to come in and assess the roads and the assessment come 00:57:58
back and said 55% of your residential streets were rated failed or poor condition. 00:58:03
25% of their streets were rated in fell or poor condition and this is just because of a philosophy that was. 00:58:09
Preservation doesn't work. 00:58:15
When we know it does. 00:58:17
What does that? 00:58:19
Translate to. 00:58:20
$875 million problem. 00:58:21
550 to repair the. 00:58:24
Residentials. 00:58:26
148 to do the arterials and 175 just to keep the good roads good. 00:58:27
OK, So what did they do? The city decided, look, we're going to have to go take a bond. We don't have that kind of money. 00:58:32
So they did $100 million bond. 00:58:38
And the City Council threw in another $20 million, and they did this over five years. 00:58:40
And they've done this twice since I've been working with. 00:58:46
They're making some headway. 00:58:49
But it is painful. 00:58:50
And I don't ever want to see you guys get to that. You want to you want to stretch the. 00:58:52
Quality use of those roads for long period of time and you want to lower your ownership cost during that time. So you want to keep 00:58:56
them healthy and the right ability good. And that's what we've really been effective. You guys have done an exceptionally good job 00:59:00
and I think it started with Dawn. 00:59:05
Went to Chris. 00:59:10
And now Kristen? 00:59:12
Nassim are doing a good job. 00:59:13
I really I feel that way. 00:59:14
With the 55 or cities I work with, I think they're in the top 5% of all the cities I work. 00:59:16
So there's some basics on preservation. I want to just kind of take you through this real quick. So asphalt is really a basic, 00:59:22
it's really simple. It's aggregate or the rock. 00:59:25
And it's the binder, the glue that holds it together. 00:59:29
Now those gold bars are there because the glue is what's important. 00:59:32
That's the important part of the asphalt. 00:59:35
So the key to preserving and extending your? 00:59:37
Life of your pavement and lowering your ownership cost is preserving. 00:59:40
And stopping. 00:59:44
The oxidation. 00:59:46
Oxidation is what kills your roads. 00:59:47
You get the raveling, you get the cracking. The roads turn Gray. 00:59:49
And it gets to a certain point to where it cracks, and then you get the moisture infiltration down in the base and you start 00:59:52
getting massive potholes and the costs just go up exponentially. We want to avoid that altogether. 00:59:57
There's two primary accelerators to oxidative aging. 01:00:03
And you guys have any idea what those are? 01:00:07
Boom, bingo. 01:00:13
UV rays. 01:00:15
It's actually called photo oxidation and moisture. 01:00:16
So here in Utah, northern Utah especially, you get the double whammy. Maybe not this year. 01:00:18
How much snow did you guys get this year? 01:00:23
Not very much. 01:00:25
How much it all? 01:00:26
So. But here you get the high elevation, so you get the high. 01:00:27
Intense UV rays and then they get the moisture. Most winter sits on the pavement and then gets pushed down in the pavement. 01:00:30
So if we can. 01:00:36
If we can take those two things and limit its effect on the pavement. 01:00:37
You're gonna. 01:00:40
Increase your quality of use for a longer period of time and increase your. 01:00:42
Length of time that you have it in use. 01:00:46
And so here's something that we always look at, everybody always sees something. This is the life cycle of pavement starts out on 01:00:48
the left. 01:00:51
And the vertical is the pavement condition. It's always nice and green. 01:00:55
Goes along and then it starts to fall off and it gets down to the bottom there, typically the National Center pavement. 01:00:58
Preservation says that's about 20 to 25 years. 01:01:03
But what people don't see is they don't see the Condell curve. Doctor Condell did a lot of research and he found out. 01:01:07
I understand my pavement ages at a certain rate. 01:01:13
And that what is the most. 01:01:15
Telling thing that happens to the pavement. 01:01:17
What's the most telling thing that can tell me how healthy that pavement is? And it's the flexibility, because the pavement is 01:01:20
flexible. 01:01:23
And their oils and resins in it. And you see how right away. 01:01:26
You lose a lot of that flexibility right away, so the key to your pavement preservation is to get involved early. 01:01:30
If you can, get involved early. 01:01:36
You have a less. 01:01:38
Less costly. 01:01:39
Treatments. 01:01:40
And you'd be diligent. 01:01:41
It'll extend the pavement. You flatten out that Condell curve, which in turn is going to flatten out the. 01:01:43
You know the surface view of it. 01:01:48
There are things you can do when you get down the you know it's. 01:01:50
Those black lines there? 01:01:53
It's kind of. They call it the waterfall effect, once the pavement. 01:01:56
Sorry, once the pavement starts going it goes fast and it's hard to catch. 01:01:59
So those things are. 01:02:03
That you do on those pavements are typically more expensive. 01:02:04
And shorter lifespans. 01:02:07
So the key is to get involved early. 01:02:08
It's hard. Sometimes I go out with city managers. 01:02:11
I look at roads and they got a subdivision over here that's 20 years old and the payments in rough shape and I got a subdivision 01:02:14
over here in the pavements. 01:02:17
Three years old. 01:02:20
And I always say. 01:02:22
Spend your money first on the three-year old pavement. 01:02:24
Because this pavement is 25 years old, it's going to be what it's going to be. It's going to cost you what it's going to cost you. 01:02:26
But if you neglect this new pavement and you allow it to deteriorate. 01:02:32
It's going to cost you more. I put pavement in three categories. 01:02:37
First category is maintenance. 01:02:39
When it falls out of maintenance, falls into rehabilitation. Your dollars go up exponentially when it falls out of maintenance 01:02:41
into rehabilitation. 01:02:44
When it falls out of rehabilitation, it goes into reconstruction again. Your dollars expended. 01:02:48
Goes up exponentially. 01:02:53
So the longer you can keep it in a maintenance. 01:02:55
Category the. 01:02:57
Better the roads gonna. 01:02:58
The use case is going to be better and the. 01:03:00
The less you're going to pay for it. 01:03:02
And there's some research out of tow. 01:03:05
Every dollar keeping a good real good precludes spending 6 to 14 to rebuild 1 so you know one will save you 14. That's a pretty. 01:03:09
Substantial difference in cost just to keep your roads in a maintenance category. 01:03:16
And here's some other numbers. We did this for a subdivision that was just north of. 01:03:22
Tucson in a town called Marana. I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with Arizona, but there's. 01:03:27
Town. 01:03:31
Called Marana just north of there and they we were working with them and they were like, hey. 01:03:32
We have this. 01:03:36
2530 year old subdivision. 01:03:37
We need to know as a city because we've got to repave the roads. 01:03:39
We want to know what is this? 01:03:42
Pavement going to cost us over the next 30 years. What is it? What's our ownership cost of it? 01:03:43
And so we went to the National Center of Pavement Preservation, we grabbed their data and we looked at it and we kind of said, 01:03:48
well, guys, it kind of depends when you get involved. If you get involved when your PCI is a 100 to a 96, you're going to budget 01:03:53
every year about 10 grand. 01:03:58
You're not spending that every year, but that's what you're going to budget. 01:04:03
And you notice. 01:04:06
Every year that you wait, those dollars go up. If you wait till the pavements, you're 7 years old. Now you have to budget 25 grand 01:04:07
a year. 01:04:10
And you notice. 01:04:13
It just the more you go, the more you have to budget per year to keep that pavement in good shape. 01:04:14
And so. 01:04:18
With this particular subdivision, they pay the city finished paving it on a Friday and we were in there doing a preservation 01:04:19
treatment on a Tuesday after it. 01:04:23
And it's fantastic. It's been 7 years since we've done this. 01:04:28
And it has like 2 cracks in it from and there are from a manhole to a curb. So it's a utility crack. It's not really a the 01:04:32
pavement's still in really good shape. 01:04:36
So there are a lot of tools available to you. 01:04:42
And you need to make sure you match those tools that are available to you to the appropriate Rd. use case. 01:04:44
And condition. 01:04:51
So if you have a pavement that's in really rough condition and you have to do a preservation treatment, maybe you're going to 01:04:53
choose like a slurry or a microsurface or a chipped seal. 01:04:57
Or a combination of those. 01:05:01
If you have a pavement like you say, it's a lot of your subdivisions are really in good condition, you're going to choose a high 01:05:03
density mineral bond that's the best return on your investment. 01:05:07
It's a lower cost because it has a good strong life cycle. 01:05:12
And it protects the pavement really good because it's impermeable to moisture. 01:05:16
Oxygen. 01:05:20
And UV rays, it keeps those bad things out and keeps the good things in, keeps the oil in so that Condell curve can be flattened 01:05:21
out. 01:05:25
So I don't mean to scare you guys. You guys are in really good place. 01:05:30
Your inventory is in a good place and I'm proud to have been here for as long as I have. I've been working with, I started working 01:05:34
with Don, I think it's 13 or 14 years ago, then I started working with him. 01:05:39
And I've done a lot of good projects. 01:05:44
And. 01:05:47
I think you guys are growing way too fast. 01:05:48
I just. 01:05:52
It's hard to keep up, man. You guys are you're growing like crazy and I understand you got that. What is it called? Utah City? 01:05:53
That's going in. 01:05:58
I would recommend that you. 01:06:01
Vineyard downtown. 01:06:02
But go ahead, downtown I would. So there's a couple things that I would recommend. I know Naseem told me not to say this because 01:06:03
it might be a cuss word to you guys, but I see a lot of cities being successful. 01:06:08
With their preservation dollars that they get. 01:06:12
With two things. One. 01:06:15
They require the developers to do a preservation treatment before you guys take ownership over because the developer, he'll do it. 01:06:16
And he'll want to do the cheapest possible thing and then say hey. 01:06:23
Here you go. 01:06:25
On this for the next 7580 years and you have to pay for. 01:06:26
You know when it goes bad? 01:06:30
But if they do that first preservation, that'll give you guys a little bit of a leg up. It's still not going to cover everything, 01:06:31
so. 01:06:34
Have the developer do the first preservation treatment. I have a lot of cities that are doing that. 01:06:37
Take that money into escrow. 01:06:41
Do it with your own personal or with your municipal projects that you do. I think that's been a very successful model that a lot 01:06:42
of the cities that I work with use. And then the other one is the. 01:06:47
I don't know if I was told not to say this, but the the usage fee. 01:06:53
You have a usage fee for your sewer. 01:06:57
You have a usage fee for your water lines. 01:06:59
I think you should have usage fee for your Rd. 01:07:01
I think it's an exceptionally good tool. 01:07:03
Sometimes it's politically difficult. 01:07:06
But. 01:07:07
Every city that I work with is underfunded. 01:07:10
And every funding mechanism that you guys can use. 01:07:12
Do it and you guys have a unique situation to where you're at right now that you guys can take these 2530 year roads if you don't 01:07:15
do anything with them and you can make them 4050 year old. 01:07:20
So your dollars that you spend for those over that 50 years? 01:07:25
A better return on investment. 01:07:28
Than the shorter lived roads. 01:07:30
So I was talking to the mayor earlier if you guys ever want to have a class, I teach a class all the time for APWA roads and 01:07:32
streets, a lot of municipalities. 01:07:36
I'd be happy to come in. 01:07:41
You guys can. 01:07:42
Inundate me. 01:07:43
Throw darts at me, whatever you want to do. I'd happy to talk to you about preservation, but I do think you guys have a unique 01:07:44
opportunity to make your roads last a lot longer. 01:07:48
Good quality use, lower ownership costs. 01:07:53
That's what I've got. 01:07:56
Any questions? 01:07:57
Thank you so much for that presentation, Council, Any questions? 01:07:59
I have a question about trail maintenance. Are there any benefits to kind of combining? 01:08:02
Trail and road maintenance, do we do this similar treatments on absolutely trail maintenance, typically the high density mineral 01:08:08
bond is going to be your best tool. 01:08:11
In my experience. 01:08:16
Parks and trails. 01:08:19
A much smaller budget. 01:08:21
So it's harder for them to get a treatment put down. 01:08:23
So I would highly recommend that you piggyback those with your roadway projects. Try to do them at the same time. 01:08:27
You'll get a better. 01:08:33
Bang for your buck, so to speak. 01:08:35
I've done a lot of trails here in the city. 01:08:38
Umm. 01:08:40
That would be my best case as far as pavement goes. Pavement is going to deteriorate how payments going to deteriorate. The thing 01:08:43
about the trails too is you have the irrigation a lot of times that. 01:08:47
Over sprays on it that is really hard on. 01:08:51
Whatever preservation treatment you choose. And then again, it's hard on the pavement. 01:08:54
So try to dial those in, keep it off the pavement. I know it's hard and you know. 01:08:59
You're watering those trails and sometimes you don't care that sprinkler heads got to go where it's got to go, and you do what you 01:09:02
got to do. But yeah, preservation is just as key on those trails. 01:09:06
I think for all your trails the high density mineral bond would be. 01:09:12
Best tool to? 01:09:15
You could possibly do on. 01:09:16
OK. Thank you. 01:09:19
Anything else? Any other questions? 01:09:20
Awesome hearing none thank you so much. That was a great super informative and we'll. 01:09:23
Might take you up on that offer. 01:09:28
Get you in here, but get some more information if we Yeah, happy to do us so. 01:09:29
Thank you so much for coming. 01:09:33
Thank you. 01:09:34
OK, we are going to jump now to. 01:09:36
Do we have another staff reports to go over? 01:09:39
OK, all right, let's jump to item 5.2 discussion of the resolution. 01:09:41
So for city manager responsibilities and duties. 01:09:47
So for the public, we have the City Council we've decided have decided to hire a full time city manager. 01:09:50
An offer has been extended working through the final. 01:09:57
Just the final steps there. 01:09:59
And. 01:10:02
The thought of how to delineate currently how the code is written the. 01:10:06
The duties and responsibilities of the city manager to lay to. 01:10:12
Riverside didn't mean the mayor's office, and we're going to delegate that out to the city manager. 01:10:15
And so. 01:10:19
The thoughts that I've had and I want to just have a good discussion with Council. 01:10:20
Over this is retaining myself. 01:10:24
Handling and me and my office would be David Kyle as well. 01:10:28
Or just the mayor's office. It would be handling communications events, specifically Vineyard days. 01:10:31
9/11 all that, all the events that we have going on and also lobbying efforts. 01:10:38
Working with you guys strategically, what do we need to lobby for what, what do we need to get after? So and then delegating the 01:10:42
rest of the management or day-to-day operations of the city to the city manager. 01:10:47
That is kind of my thought, so I just like to open up the discussion for Council. 01:10:53
Love to get your guys thoughts on it and. 01:10:57
Hopefully get to something you all feel good about we can vote on. 01:10:59
Next upcoming meeting. 01:11:02
So any comments from Council? 01:11:04
Sure. Yep. Dave, you want to start my left? Go ahead, Parker. 01:11:08
My thought on this is that. 01:11:11
The city manager position. 01:11:14
Falls underneath the executive branch of government here, and that is strictly a. 01:11:17
Mayor's responsibility. 01:11:22
So my thought is that. 01:11:25
As a legislative body, I would like. 01:11:29
Us to have. 01:11:31
A separate role. 01:11:33
Then dictate how you run the day-to-day operations in the city. 01:11:35
It's not our place to interject that so. 01:11:38
Go for it. 01:11:42
Thank you, Parker. 01:11:45
Any other? Any other comments Council? 01:11:46
I was looking at the org chart that. 01:11:49
Yeah, I noticed that you've. 01:11:52
Code enforcement. 01:11:55
And so forth. Still under. 01:11:56
You're the mayor's office. 01:11:58
As opposed to under the city managers office is that? 01:12:00
Is there any thoughts on that or no? No specific no. 01:12:04
What were the thoughts on there? It's a public facing office. 01:12:07
And Dill's. 01:12:11
With the public on. 01:12:12
Daily basis. 01:12:13
And we wanted to make sure that. 01:12:15
That. 01:12:17
That the. 01:12:18
Code enforcement was done with kid gloves. 01:12:19
And that we were having the. 01:12:22
Putting the best space forward. 01:12:25
So it's we just want to. 01:12:27
Closely monitor and. 01:12:29
And basically execute. 01:12:30
That program. 01:12:33
Are you at all concerned about? 01:12:38
I mean, obviously code enforcement is going to have some pretty unpopular. 01:12:41
Decisions that need to be made. That is exactly the reason why we're doing it, actually. 01:12:45
And the reason is. 01:12:50
To be able to. 01:12:53
Basically, measure, engage public opinion. 01:12:55
And the results. 01:12:58
And be able to. 01:13:00
Basically turn or dial it down as needed. 01:13:02
So. 01:13:06
Any other comments from council on this? 01:13:11
I think we should. 01:13:16
Take some time and recognize the mayor like I did a couple weeks ago, and David Kyle and the transition, the whole city's gone in 01:13:17
and it's been such a positive. 01:13:21
120 days in terms of. 01:13:25
Reorganizing and. 01:13:27
I think we need to spend some time recognizing that, but I. 01:13:29
I reviewed everything and I. 01:13:33
I think it looks great. 01:13:34
I did have questions about the code enforcement like was there a desire that you guys really want to keep that but? 01:13:38
You know they're accountable to you, which is great. You know it's one person. It makes a little bit. 01:13:44
Nimbler, right? It's like. 01:13:48
One person. 01:13:50
So I can see the advantages of that two people on the org chart. 01:13:52
Yeah, yeah. So there's Ed and then there's a part and then we have one part time. We're budgeting for it right now. 01:13:56
And then events came. 01:14:04
So we are having the only thing I have a question about is the lobbying. 01:14:06
Efforts is like. 01:14:10
I like you're very skilled, so I can see that is. 01:14:12
But like, do you envision that as like a? 01:14:16
October, November, December. Discussions of what word lobbying for. 01:14:19
So we're together. 01:14:23
On I mean, I'm sure we are, we're always talking, but like how does that work, you know, So lobbying is a usually year round. 01:14:25
Usually it starts right after the session. 01:14:33
Right, so true. 01:14:36
If you want to lose. 01:14:39
And you don't want to. 01:14:41
Be successful. You wait. Yeah, Yeah, so. 01:14:42
Not only is it year round, but. 01:14:46
Where we've identified the mayor. 01:14:48
And myself have identified. 01:14:51
Very large goals. 01:14:54
For our lobbying efforts, the. 01:14:55
Chief among them is working on. 01:14:59
The RDA. 01:15:02
And uh. 01:15:03
The and the railroad spurs. 01:15:04
Funding. 01:15:08
OK, the railroad. 01:15:09
Alone is $150 million. Ask. 01:15:11
So OK. 01:15:15
Yeah, so. 01:15:18
Parker mentioned you mentioned that the the city manager and the. 01:15:21
Ministry of Officer those. 01:15:26
Those are two. 01:15:27
Executive things under. 01:15:29
Been under the mayor and so. 01:15:31
And so you're saying you wouldn't think that the city manager would be? 01:15:33
Responsible to the councillor. 01:15:36
Could you follow up with your? 01:15:38
With your comment there. 01:15:40
No. And I think with our our. 01:15:42
City code the way we had previously done revisions. 01:15:45
It's, I believe, evident. 01:15:47
That the city employees. 01:15:50
Are still beheld to the legislative authority of the Council and if we need information or we direct something. 01:15:53
That that's upheld regardless. 01:15:59
My comments is more on the separation of the positions and recognizing that the mayors function is primarily to operate the city. 01:16:02
The organization. 01:16:12
And so I am inclined to give him. 01:16:14
The leeway. 01:16:17
To operate the entity of the city organization. 01:16:18
While we maintain our lane as legislators. 01:16:22
So you would you would say the city manager should exist under the mayor's office as well? 01:16:26
Correct. 01:16:30
This. That's not to say that it is. 01:16:33
Sorry. 01:16:35
My previous comments, OK, because I saw the confusion. Look, yeah. 01:16:36
With the existing city code. 01:16:41
The city manager. 01:16:44
If one is hired. 01:16:46
Is still beheld into the City Council. 01:16:48
But he's not day-to-day supervised by us. 01:16:51
Nor are we dictating how the day-to-day operation of the city is. 01:16:55
Correct. 01:16:59
So my. 01:17:00
Comment is largely saying. 01:17:02
I want to enable the mayor. 01:17:04
To run the city. 01:17:06
And I think that. 01:17:08
When we look at this resolution and we look at the like org chart here. 01:17:09
That's the mayor's vision. 01:17:13
And I'm totally cool with being out of the way for the daily operations. 01:17:14
Obviously, the city manager still answers to. 01:17:19
The council, per the city code. 01:17:21
When we have a direction or we have a request. 01:17:24
I don't think that's changed at all, or I'm not advocating to change that. 01:17:27
I think. 01:17:35
Let me see if I understand you right here so. 01:17:40
The way I see this org chart is. 01:17:43
We basically got kind of the. 01:17:46
Functional administration of the city under the city manager so. 01:17:48
All of the. 01:17:52
For lack of better word. All the boring stuff, all the routine, all the things we need to keep our roads maintained. We need to. 01:17:54
Approved permits we need to can I read that off just for the people that can't see the org chart right now so the way that. 01:18:01
And I don't know, Tony, if it could be pulled up maybe, but the city manager would be over the building department, the city 01:18:09
recorder, the finance. 01:18:13
The human resources, the public works. 01:18:17
The community enrichment and the RDA director. 01:18:19
So those would be the departments underneath the. 01:18:22
City Manager with this proposed org chart. 01:18:25
And then like Councilman Nair was just saying. 01:18:27
There's the separation for the administrative officer that would be under. 01:18:31
David Kyle Herring over there. 01:18:37
And that is the code enforcement, the events contracting the media and the. 01:18:39
Communities that care. 01:18:45
And grant writing. 01:18:47
And there's also lobbying and boards and commissions on that side. So those are the things that I think. 01:18:48
Again by the structured. 01:18:54
In this org chart right now. 01:18:56
It's roles that all fall underneath the mayor and the organization. 01:18:59
Operations. 01:19:05
It's just. 01:19:06
The mayor has. 01:19:07
Shifted, you know, half of those roles are falling under this person. Half of those roles are falling under this person. 01:19:08
Yeah, so, so my thoughts here and. 01:19:15
Let me know if this helps. 01:19:18
With with our form of government. So rather than. 01:19:19
Having a. 01:19:23
Form of government that's actually like a specific mayor, council, form of government. 01:19:24
We have the six member council form of government where I think there's a little bit of nuance where. 01:19:28
Where we don't. 01:19:34
Fully just. 01:19:34
Solely do the legislative work, but we also have a responsibility to. 01:19:36
Appoint the city manager. 01:19:39
And have the city manager. 01:19:41
Report to all of us and kind of balance the. 01:19:43
Basically, the needs of the Council as a whole. 01:19:46
Where? 01:19:49
Kind of the functions that I see currently that are that are under David Kyle and I would actually recommend. 01:19:50
For for clarity sake and working with other organizations that we change that to. 01:19:56
A deputy mayor. 01:20:01
Yeah. 01:20:02
We have like code enforcement events, things that can really kind of pivot. 01:20:04
Pretty substantially, depending on how the mayor. 01:20:08
Wants to take the vision of the city. 01:20:11
With things like. 01:20:13
Public works engineering. 01:20:14
Building like. 01:20:16
A lot of that is governed by the state code and we have a lot of responsibilities that. 01:20:17
That day-to-day we just need to carry out. 01:20:21
That we we definitely have a huge impact on. 01:20:24
And set a. 01:20:28
Pretty substantial tone for for what gets built and when. 01:20:29
But as far as like all the functions that I'm seeing under. 01:20:34
David Kyle right now. 01:20:37
Those could. 01:20:38
Very easily turn on a dime. 01:20:40
And. 01:20:42
It would all just depend on kind of the mayor, like how the mayor wants to. 01:20:44
To operate. 01:20:47
And I think that's a good thing to have some of that flexibility. 01:20:48
And the ability to pivot on a lot of those. 01:20:51
Kind of forward facing operations when we're talking about the events when we're talking about. 01:20:54
You know we could. 01:20:59
In theory, does not have been your days, and that could just be a decision of. 01:21:00
Of the mayor, and I don't think that's. 01:21:03
The end of the world. 01:21:05
We're not going to be. 01:21:07
Be held into any state code? We're not going to be. 01:21:08
Found out of compliance with any. 01:21:12
Functional responsibility with the city. 01:21:13
Versus the city manager, which has. 01:21:16
Here are these. 01:21:18
Operations we need to. 01:21:19
Have our audit turned in? Every year we need to have our permits approved. We need to. 01:21:20
Follow and respond to grammar requests. 01:21:24
All of these kind of basic functions of the city. 01:21:26
I think having that distinction there. 01:21:29
Could make it. 01:21:31
Pretty clear of. 01:21:32
Our role in. 01:21:33
A smaller portion of the day-to-day administration of the city. 01:21:35
A lot of those responsibilities are dedicated. 01:21:38
Delegated through the city manager. 01:21:40
But then kind of a separate. 01:21:42
Here is basically the face of the city. Here the. 01:21:44
Here's the mayor's office and all the great things that the mayor's office would do. 01:21:47
I have one thought about the. 01:21:53
Which are right now you've got the planet. 01:21:55
Boards and commissions. 01:22:00
Totally under the. 01:22:01
That the administrative officer side. 01:22:02
And I'm thinking that the Planning Commission, for one ought to be associated with the people, with the planners and so forth, 01:22:05
which right now under the building official. 01:22:09
And maybe that. 01:22:14
That might be better shifted over there. 01:22:16
But other than that, I. 01:22:19
I mean, I think you said that's a nuance that I think we can. 01:22:20
Deal with but. 01:22:24
Were you guys thinking more internal or external boards in that? 01:22:25
I kind of read that as the more. 01:22:28
Like the board said, yeah. 01:22:30
The city would sit on the mayor's gonna kind of delegate. 01:22:32
I thought this was like library. 01:22:35
Garden Art. 01:22:37
That's what I thought with the boards was I thought planning would still be. 01:22:39
But what are you thinking? Yes, not right now. What about garden being? 01:22:43
If you go into the building and planning department there we have. 01:22:47
There's the Active Transportation Commission and the Developer Review. 01:22:50
Committee or board when it was. 01:22:54
And so those those. 01:22:55
And it seems to me that Planning Commission would be along with the same function with the DRC. 01:22:57
At least that they should be probably together. 01:23:01
So maybe we could kind of list out boards? 01:23:05
Because the Planning Commission. 01:23:08
I guess any, yeah, there there's some boards that kind of fit in as a responsibility of. 01:23:10
I'm a city staff. The Planning Commission is is more is dedicated. 01:23:15
Defined more in state law than other boards are, and so it seems to me that would be a better fit under the. 01:23:20
Under the manager site. 01:23:25
So maybe we just spell those out in the org chart? Which ones? 01:23:27
Because like, yeah, I think the. 01:23:30
The community garden like that's. 01:23:32
That's a city initiative. It's kind of a. 01:23:35
It's not something we're required by statute to do by any means. 01:23:37
Maybe we could just list out which ones go under which? 01:23:40
I would agree with the deputy mayor. 01:23:44
Because. 01:23:46
A deputy mayor is working. 01:23:46
In place. 01:23:48
You know the Provo deputy mayor is working when Cafusi wasn't there and it's. 01:23:50
It shows people what? 01:23:54
Under what authority the. 01:23:56
Executive. 01:23:58
Would be like, well wait a second. 01:23:59
Who is the? 01:24:01
Which one is it? 01:24:02
I think changing that. 01:24:03
Title is smart. 01:24:05
Yeah, Audrey. 01:24:07
I like the boldness of. 01:24:11
At first I didn't really. I was like code enforcement. I didn't like it at first. I was like, wait. 01:24:13
But then actually hearing David Kyle go through of like, it makes it very limble. 01:24:17
And very responsive. 01:24:21
And not community and. 01:24:23
The mayor is responsible. 01:24:27
So I like that actually. 01:24:28
Yeah, I go along with leaving that there as long as you do the Planning Commission over to the other side. 01:24:29
Yeah. I just think the Planning Commission probably should be with the planning department. 01:24:34
Yeah, I agree with that. 01:24:39
And then, yeah, we've already got active transportation and DRC under there, so. 01:24:40
Just additional clarity. They were just. 01:24:45
They all fit together like the. 01:24:47
Youth councils under the recorder right now. 01:24:49
So. 01:24:52
Just kind of clarifying that. 01:24:52
Tree Committee. 01:24:54
Another one under. 01:24:55
Public works, so. 01:24:56
OK. 01:24:58
And actually arches. 01:25:00
Arch Library. Community Gardener. All under. 01:25:02
The staff rolls too, so yeah, let's just. 01:25:04
Clarify what we mean by that. 01:25:06
And I like that I was. 01:25:08
I was thinking the committees when I read that. 01:25:10
It was like. 01:25:13
Mag Lake Authority, that's what I that was my tube. 01:25:14
Are you wanting to do the in like the city ones too? Like both? 01:25:19
Youth Council and. 01:25:24
Tree and garden and were they right now, where do they fall? DK They're all in departments. Yeah, just kind of. I was also 01:25:26
thinking, and I haven't discussed this with you, but yeah, you may want to. 01:25:31
We may want to discuss some code. 01:25:37
And because. 01:25:39
I think. 01:25:41
You should have some representation. 01:25:42
Or you. 01:25:45
Attend, you know, have a spot on these boards as the chair of the boards. 01:25:46
Yeah, the internal ones, yeah. And then when you're not there, you could appoint a city staff member to serve at your. 01:25:52
You know, for you in your place. 01:25:58
But that would give you the opportunity in case you wanted to direct, let's say, the Planning Commission. 01:26:01
Or any other Commission that we have, you could step in and you could set the agenda. 01:26:06
Makes sense? That sounds smart through statute. 01:26:14
And that way. 01:26:16
The council then, through the mayor, would have a representative on all the commissions. 01:26:17
And would be able to set the direction. 01:26:23
Yeah, well, the mayor would have that place anyway as chief executive over both both sides. Yeah, but. 01:26:24
The mayor doesn't necessarily have a. 01:26:30
Seated that he's not. 01:26:33
A member of the board. 01:26:35
Of the boards. 01:26:36
Like that we maybe have one of them that he is. 01:26:38
I think that's the. 01:26:42
What is it? 01:26:43
DRC. DRC. Yeah. 01:26:45
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I've always thought. 01:26:49
That the board should be representative of the Council. I thrown that out just because. 01:26:52
When you run for re-election and you're like, what is your vision for X? 01:26:58
Well, in a, in a, in a perfect like. 01:27:04
As we. 01:27:06
As we continue to adjust. 01:27:06
Right, the mayor should be appointing. 01:27:09
Members of the commissions with the City Council's. 01:27:13
Consent. 01:27:19
Like I say, it would be. 01:27:21
For the mayor to actually serve on these. 01:27:23
Boards would be a good thing and then. 01:27:25
When he's not able to be there, he can appoint someone staff member to be there in his stead. 01:27:28
Any other comments, counsel? 01:27:38
Jacob Wood, do you have anything? 01:27:42
No, I think there's a lot of good suggestions. I agree with the title of deputy mayor. I think that would make more sense. Code 01:27:44
enforcement. 01:27:47
I feel a little better about that. I do. 01:27:50
I think that as long as we just make it clear, we don't want staff to be confused on who they're supposed to report to. So as long 01:27:53
as we make it clear that, you know, code enforcement in the future, code enforcement person answers to. 01:27:59
David Kyle and. 01:28:04
So I think it's fine. 01:28:07
As were you going to say something? 01:28:11
Yeah, just the renaming. 01:28:12
So we've got this community enrichment. 01:28:14
Department instead of Parks and Rec. 01:28:16
So yes, that's, I'm sure there's a question, there's a great, there's a great response to that so. 01:28:19
We've enlarged. 01:28:26
Brian's responsibilities he's now. 01:28:28
Not he doesn't just manage Parks and Rec, he now manages the library. 01:28:32
And typically what we've in the research we've done. 01:28:37
They're actually the position title is leisure. 01:28:42
Leisure Services. 01:28:47
And I didn't. 01:28:49
Initially like the idea of calling him the leisure services director because it just says free time translated. 01:28:51
So I I went. 01:29:01
In discussion with HR. 01:29:03
We came up with this new. 01:29:06
Name of. 01:29:08
Community enrichment because we think. 01:29:10
That's. 01:29:13
What Brian's department does. 01:29:14
Like that, it is community enrichment. 01:29:16
I could by the very definition of the words. 01:29:19
So then I brought Brian into the office and I said, Brian, what do you think? And at first he hated it. 01:29:22
And then he. 01:29:28
Took a second and he went and on his own he just looked up the definition of the two different words and thought about it. And 10 01:29:29
minutes later he's telling me he loves it and we're ready to roll with it. So. 01:29:35
We've got buy in. 01:29:42
And I think it's a. 01:29:43
Personally, I think it's a. 01:29:45
Great name for the department. 01:29:47
What about those that watch the show Park and Rec? What are we going to do? We still have a Parks and Rec. 01:29:51
Zach Beatty is the handles recreation and. 01:29:59
Yes, President handles the parks and then Valerie is over the library, so. 01:30:05
I think it's great to kind of signal. 01:30:15
Exactly what we're trying to do with the departments, there's a lot to be said. 01:30:17
In a name so. 01:30:21
I do like that. 01:30:22
As long as we're. 01:30:24
You know, in professional settings if he ever needs to identify himself as the parks and rec manager just for ease of not having 01:30:25
to explain our whole city vision. I think this is great for the public though, so I'm. 01:30:30
I'm supportive. I'm sure we can do a Facebook post too. Yes, introduce the new department. Yeah, for sure. 01:30:36
Yeah, I'm still of the opinion that the planning department needs to be. 01:30:43
I mean the. 01:30:47
Planning Commission needs to be with the planners. 01:30:49
OK, yeah, I'm not. I'm not against that. 01:30:51
I just think the mayor needs to have some sort of role. 01:30:54
In the in the planning and and especially the appointments. 01:30:58
So yeah, I think that that's going to say the same word. 01:31:01
This advice and consent and planning will always have a role in the planning department, whether it's, I think, under the mayor. 01:31:04
Yeah, I think each or not. 01:31:12
Yeah, I think the like that's kind of. 01:31:14
It's like so for for instance. I'll give you some other examples. 01:31:17
We toyed around with having. 01:31:21
The enrichment. 01:31:24
The enrichment. 01:31:29
Director and Parks and Rec. 01:31:31
And library under the mayor. 01:31:34
We toyed around with it and then we moved it back and the reason being is because it was very front facing. 01:31:37
It was. It's very public. 01:31:43
Everyone. 01:31:45
You know all the parks and rec it's. 01:31:46
Those are events. 01:31:48
I mean, they're the very definition of these sporting programs are very definition of events. 01:31:49
So. But that doesn't mean that Brian and I aren't going to work together. 01:31:55
And work together often. 01:32:00
To make the events, the 5K's and all the other programs that we run. 01:32:03
Make them run very smoothly and efficiently. 01:32:08
So he's still, he'll still be under the. 01:32:11
City Manager. 01:32:14
I'll be working with in quite a bit. 01:32:16
Do so there. There will be. 01:32:18
There will have to be and there should be cohesion. 01:32:21
And a lot of teamwork. 01:32:24
Between the. 01:32:26
2 branches. 01:32:27
Great. Anything else? David Pearson, did you have something you. 01:32:29
Taking questions. 01:32:33
Excuse me from the public. 01:32:34
You're the only one from the public here, so. 01:32:38
Come up. Come on. Here's Cascade neighborhood. 01:32:42
Now I. 01:32:46
Looking at the organizational chart. 01:32:48
Dividing specific responsibilities or specific functions of the city. 01:32:52
Into two different sections under. 01:32:57
I guess the deputy mayor. 01:33:02
And the city manager. But. 01:33:04
Are good ideas. I do have a question. 01:33:08
Thank you, sweetheart. 01:33:12
I do have a question. 01:33:13
It seems according to resolution. 01:33:15
202629. 01:33:19
You take the. 01:33:22
That the city manager. 01:33:25
Is over. 01:33:27
You take. 01:33:28
That the mayor has now. 01:33:29
Take those functions. 01:33:31
The day-to-day operation of the basic functions of the city. 01:33:32
Away from the mayor. 01:33:37
Put it in the city managers. 01:33:40
Bucket and the city manager and Turn reports to the council. 01:33:42
Correct. 01:33:47
ACE A7 member. 01:33:47
Excuse me, a six member body. 01:33:50
So. 01:33:54
It's am I reading that? 01:33:56
That the mayor gets stripped of his authorities to manage the day-to-day affairs. 01:33:59
Of the basic functions of the city. 01:34:04
And. 01:34:07
Back turns it to. 01:34:09
A6 Member Council. 01:34:11
So I'm. 01:34:14
Give you some I disagreed with this form of government, and loudly. 01:34:15
Attacked the previous council and Marty and. 01:34:20
The type of government that we move to. 01:34:23
There's there were four types of government that we had a choice to. The former one is no longer legally available. 01:34:26
And there was one that had the mayor having a ton of authority, and then there was a middle ground. And then there was the one we 01:34:32
chose, which was. 01:34:36
And if you read the code, the one we chose was. 01:34:41
The mayor is a figurehead or public. 01:34:44
Facing and didn't have any authority. 01:34:47
And so when the voters voted for the actually, I. 01:34:49
Personally, I have to disagree with that. 01:34:53
Because that was not the intent. The intent was. 01:34:55
To separate more definitively. 01:34:59
The legislative functions. 01:35:01
And the executive function because the old form of correct government, look at the state code, the mayor had entertained those it 01:35:04
separates, but IA 100% agree that it completely is separated. 01:35:09
Please. 01:35:15
OK. And what? 01:35:16
This does indeed while the intent. 01:35:17
Of changing the form of government. 01:35:20
Was to separate those two functions, which is as it should be. 01:35:22
Correct. 01:35:27
Come This takes everything away from the mayor. 01:35:29
Essentially, uh. 01:35:32
And gives it. 01:35:34
The daily operations and functions to the executive to the legislative branch. 01:35:35
On the 1st mayor in history that wants to give up power, Yeah I understand that. But. 01:35:41
With these you also have two. 01:35:47
Very capable. 01:35:50
People. 01:35:52
To delegate that. 01:35:53
Sure. So what you're saying? 01:35:54
Is is what park? It sounds like you and Parker so basically have the same thing. It's like. 01:35:57
Just do it, Zach. 01:36:02
Well, my. 01:36:03
I think that the. 01:36:05
That oversimplified maybe what Mr. Pierce was was saying. 01:36:07
In the sense. 01:36:11
That, umm. 01:36:12
The mayor. 01:36:14
Still should have. 01:36:16
Responsibility for the daily operations. 01:36:17
And uh. 01:36:20
Perhaps it's an amendment. 01:36:21
To how the code should be written then? 01:36:23
Because we are. 01:36:27
Giving. 01:36:28
Power to a city manager. 01:36:29
In accordance with. 01:36:31
The existing city code. 01:36:32
But in my. 01:36:35
Mind reading this interpretation? 01:36:36
It's not abdicating the mayor of his responsibility to the city. 01:36:39
It's more enabling the operation of. 01:36:43
An executive to run the organization. That's how I read and interpreted this. 01:36:47
I in my opinion. 01:36:52
If. 01:36:55
Say it again in a maybe more articulate way. 01:36:55
It's not that I believe. 01:36:58
That we should abdicate our authority in any way. 01:36:59
It's that. 01:37:03
We should empower. 01:37:04
The daily operations from the mayor's. 01:37:06
Purview. 01:37:10
So which? 01:37:12
Which this? 01:37:13
Resolution does not do. 01:37:14
Right, one of the one of the points I wanted to make eventually. 01:37:17
And after listening to the discussion is that. 01:37:20
The. 01:37:23
The organization organization chart doesn't match. 01:37:24
The actual code that we want to change. 01:37:28
And so and that's an issue and you've picked and you've landed on that very same point. 01:37:31
And that it really does. 01:37:35
The code gives the power to the city manager, exclusive of the mayor. 01:37:37
You know, and that that's and that's something we need to resolve. How are you? 01:37:41
And by having this discussion, I was hoping we would come to a. 01:37:46
A good delineation that we could then. 01:37:49
Write code to. 01:37:51
You know, to match. 01:37:53
So if I hear what you're saying. 01:37:55
Than the current city code. 01:37:58
Does exactly what this resolution. 01:37:59
Current city code, the way it is right now before, without it I mean we're. 01:38:03
Gives the power to the mayor to. 01:38:07
To to do these, to run the city the way we're talking about it. 01:38:09
We're simply talking about introducing a city manager that would help the mayor run it. That's what the org charts do. 01:38:12
Right, but the but the code that the changes to the code. 01:38:19
Want to take the power from the mayor and give it to a city manager? 01:38:23
Independent of the mayor. 01:38:26
So they may not have. 01:38:28
Whatever functions he holds, but the city manager would be. 01:38:29
Would be hold. 01:38:32
Power over the other things and they would the mayor would not be able to have influence or power over the city manager. 01:38:33
Other than. 01:38:39
You know, be able to fire. 01:38:41
Maybe it would help. 01:38:45
To change. So if we go back to. 01:38:45
So on the backup documents on the agenda item. 01:38:48
We just have the changes to the code that would kind of enable this so. 01:38:51
If you guys remember when we talked about. 01:38:55
This back in January of how the city would operate and everything. 01:38:58
We didn't. 01:39:02
Take the city manager responsibilities out of the code. 01:39:04
We basically just. 01:39:07
Kind of nullified them by not having. 01:39:09
A city manager to carry out those responses, We rewrote it to specify the mayor had that. 01:39:11
Authority Mayor. 01:39:16
Yeah, the cell manager and see there. 01:39:18
So if you go back into the code real quick, so so 2820. 01:39:21
It specifically talks about the city manager duties. 01:39:24
And many of those duties. 01:39:27
Like 5 assists the mayor and enforcing the laws. 01:39:30
Assist the mayor in recommending and preparing for council. So there's very clear like delineations between here's kind of the 01:39:32
mayor's. 01:39:36
Here's what the city manager is assisting the Marin versus Here's. 01:39:40
What the city manager does at the direction of. 01:39:43
All six of us. 01:39:46
As far as administering the affairs of the city. 01:39:47
And it looks a lot more like all of the other 6 member council forms of government that you see throughout the throughout the 01:39:49
county. 01:39:52
Where Spanish Fork? 01:39:55
Clothing Grove, all these other cities have this similar structure where the mayor has a lot of responsibility, and I do not envy 01:39:57
the job of the mayor because it is a lot of work. 01:40:01
And that's going to continue. But as far as. 01:40:06
Adding some administrative professional support to administer the day-to-day affairs. 01:40:09
That reports to. 01:40:13
All six members of the council taking direction from the. 01:40:15
You know the majority of the council whenever a vote is made. 01:40:18
That's the direction that they take, but they meet with. 01:40:22
Like I think the goal is for the city manager to meet with. 01:40:24
All of us. 01:40:27
At a regular cadence that makes sense so that. 01:40:28
We can all make sure we're. 01:40:30
We're keeping eyes on. 01:40:32
All the different parts of the city, because that's. 01:40:33
Just a lot for the mayor to do by himself. So would it be a more clean approach to maybe? 01:40:35
Write an amendment or amend the the resolution in the code to say that. 01:40:40
We're not transferring powers away from the mayor entirely, but instead. 01:40:45
We are. 01:40:48
Enabling a city manager to operate. 01:40:50
Under the direction of a mayor and council. 01:40:52
With delegated administrative authority. 01:40:55
Well, I I. 01:40:59
I just want to follow the. 01:41:01
Form of government that we voted for, the state has already set forth. 01:41:03
The form of government that we have. 01:41:07
We could rewrite. We could. 01:41:10
Override. 01:41:12
This the voters and. 01:41:13
Re put an ordinance that would. 01:41:15
Change it but. 01:41:18
If you look. 01:41:19
Because I was involved in the change of government. 01:41:20
And all Jesse did was. 01:41:23
Go back to what was in state code. 01:41:25
It's like, I think we're getting into the weeds here of like, let's reword it so it's this way and I'm like. 01:41:28
This we argued the three forms of government for six months. 01:41:33
Yeah, and the people chose the form of government, which is you are. 01:41:38
So that's that's what the people want. 01:41:43
Sort of. Now I've got to say it's excellent. 01:41:46
I think it's very smart. 01:41:50
To delineate. 01:41:52
These two things correct, we're giving. 01:41:54
Let me finish. 01:41:57
And to put. 01:41:58
Functions within the city manager's purview. 01:42:00
And functions within the deputy mayors. 01:42:03
Purview, but they all. 01:42:07
Should work for him and. 01:42:10
I understand your position and I fully agree with that. 01:42:12
But. 01:42:16
This is a matter of governmental. 01:42:16
Principal the executive branch. 01:42:21
And the legislative branch. 01:42:24
And this. 01:42:26
This resolution. 01:42:28
Muddles those, yeah. 01:42:30
Appreciate that, David. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Thank you but all. 01:42:32
Also like the six member council. 01:42:35
Is a muddle form. 01:42:39
It is a minor. Council is all the legislative and executive are together. 01:42:40
Right. And then the the mayor council, they're up, they're fully separated. 01:42:46
And the the the Six River Council. 01:42:49
Gives us a system that's sort of halfway in between it's needed. Quite. Need a fish or fowl? Exactly. 01:42:51
And I don't think. 01:42:56
I mean, I'm just. 01:42:58
I'm trying to pull up state code and read through as we're going here. I don't think that anything. 01:42:59
If we were to rewrite. 01:43:05
Resolution. 01:43:07
Rewrite code. Specify that a city manager is operating under delegated authority from the mayor and the council. 01:43:08
I don't think that that violates. 01:43:14
I know state code. 01:43:17
Yeah. I just don't think it's, I think we have the ability to do that what I'm never. 01:43:19
The way it's worded actually says exactly what you're doing. Like I'm like, yeah, it's worded specifically like. 01:43:22
The. 01:43:28
The mayor gets to vote, so he is a part of us. 01:43:29
And so at any given time, a majority can fire the CEO. 01:43:33
And that's the form. So like he is including and he is the head of the board. So you're you're right what you're saying like he's 01:43:37
because he because that is a vote when he gets to vote. 01:43:42
Yeah, but it's. 01:43:49
Everyone is a unit. 01:43:50
Is the form that we chose, which is I'm like. 01:43:52
But we. 01:43:55
So it's not like. 01:43:55
I don't know. 01:43:57
I think. 01:43:58
It's just the state just to kind of agree with what Jacob Wood said. 01:44:00
It's already kind of written like that. Like when we. 01:44:04
Put everything under the. 01:44:07
We basically kind of. 01:44:09
Took the the code that. 01:44:10
Was built around the structure of a city manager like state code has. 01:44:12
And just said. 01:44:15
We're going to delegate this to the mayor, but like. 01:44:16
So here we're changing delegates to the. 01:44:18
Mayor or delegates to the city manager the executive and administrative duties listed in. 01:44:21
2.04.30. 01:44:25
And two point 8.10. 01:44:27
If you look at 2.8 point 10. 01:44:29
It's literally the creation of the office of the city manager. 01:44:32
So we kind of already shoehorn things back into the mare so by. 01:44:35
Putting it back to the city manager. 01:44:38
I think it. 01:44:40
It all aligns a lot better. I think the code's already written to address some of the concerns you talked about and I was 01:44:41
specifically commenting on. 01:44:44
What Mr. Pierce brought up with the resolution where it specifies that it's taking authority from the mayor to give to the city 01:44:48
manager. 01:44:51
I'm just. 01:44:55
We can omit that line or make a revision. 01:44:56
In line with the code. 01:44:58
I'm sorry. 01:45:01
I may have not said. 01:45:03
Express myself clearly. 01:45:05
The point being, who manages the city manager? 01:45:07
On a day-to-day basis? And who does he report to? 01:45:11
According to. 01:45:15
The resolution. 01:45:17
He reports to the City Council. 01:45:18
For the day-to-day activities for everything. 01:45:21
He reports. Who was who was that funnel? 01:45:25
Yeah, who is the one? 01:45:28
Yeah, that supervises day-to-day the city manager as well as the deputy mayor. 01:45:30
Is that you've deluded. 01:45:36
Authority and you have confused the chain of authority. At least the resolution does. 01:45:38
And the current. 01:45:44
Organizational Chart. 01:45:46
Thanks for the comment Dan and I know. 01:45:49
That you for instance. 01:45:51
Are know exactly. 01:45:53
What the delineations of responsibilities? 01:45:56
Need to be. 01:46:00
And how? 01:46:01
That helps an organization work. 01:46:03
Much more effectively and efficiently. 01:46:06
Ah, that being the case. 01:46:11
I'm not saying we should burden the mayor. 01:46:13
But having. 01:46:16
The two people. 01:46:18
This should report to the mayor. 01:46:20
On the day-to-day basis. 01:46:24
You all set the direction. 01:46:26
But how that direction is? 01:46:29
Actually. 01:46:32
Turned into a day-to-day function of a city. 01:46:33
Should be. 01:46:37
Very clearly delineated to one person. 01:46:38
OK. I think I thank you, David. I better understand. 01:46:42
The positions now, thank you. That was an important clarification. I. 01:46:45
For me. 01:46:49
Now I understand your comment a little bit better too. 01:46:51
The way it is currently written. 01:46:55
A city manager reports to the council. 01:46:57
This is a 6 member council, the mayors on the council. That's why it's confusing where there's understood and he is the head. 01:46:59
So he does report to. 01:47:07
But it's through all six of us, not individually. 01:47:08
Yeah, I I would maybe just say for clarity sake, you could. 01:47:12
Right into the resolution or a code amendment that just specifies. 01:47:16
That, uh. 01:47:20
For the day-to-day operation. 01:47:21
The city manager can report to the mayor, but that's not an abdication of. 01:47:25
The rest of the council, correct. That's what I was getting at previously. 01:47:29
It's just the reality is all of us. 01:47:33
As council members. 01:47:35
Are part time at best. 01:47:36
It's not necessarily easy or feasible. 01:47:40
To be involved in the day-to-day supervision. 01:47:44
I think Jesse. 01:47:49
Riddle were here, he would remind us that the. 01:47:50
Power. It resides in the Council. 01:47:53
And the correction? 01:47:56
The the see I made that mistake too. 01:47:57
The governing body, the sovering body, there's a different legal situation. The council is five of us. 01:48:01
The governing body is including the mayor. 01:48:07
And because when it's. 01:48:11
When it's. 01:48:12
Going to his responsibilities, he is the head. 01:48:13
Of the governing body so. 01:48:16
City Manager reports to the. 01:48:18
Governing body which he is the head of. 01:48:20
So you have to use those. You have to use that differently. 01:48:22
When we're talking about other things, we talk about council, mayor. 01:48:25
But when we talk about those issues that are specific. 01:48:29
To the. 01:48:33
To where he votes. 01:48:34
We're talking about the governing body. 01:48:36
I'd like to hear. 01:48:40
From him, but yeah. 01:48:41
A little more about this. 01:48:42
So at the end of the day. 01:48:43
Jake's great. 01:48:46
The the governing body as a majority. 01:48:48
Hires and fires a city manager like let's, let's. 01:48:51
Let's pretend a different situation where like the mayor is somebody that the rest of the governing body completely disagrees 01:48:54
with. 01:48:58
The city manager is responsible for. 01:49:01
Carrying out the day-to-day operations of the city. 01:49:05
In his best. 01:49:07
Estimation or his best judgment on. 01:49:09
The majority of the body. 01:49:12
Outrage and he serves up to pleasure and they'll probably meet with the mayor more often than. 01:49:13
The rest of the yeah, I think that. 01:49:17
The major difference here is that we have two city managers. 01:49:20
You know, working 1's called the deputy mayor. 01:49:23
And other cities have one city manager. 01:49:26
Take advantage of the whole thing and we're looking at having 2. 01:49:29
Well, I think that's where. 01:49:33
Like like David Kyle. 01:49:35
As deputy mayor is appointed by the mayor like we didn't vote, there's no statutory. 01:49:37
Function that says we need to vote for that position and so that is really. 01:49:42
Deputy mayor needs to keep the mayor happy. 01:49:47
We can't fire the deputy mayor. That's solely the mayor's responsibility and. 01:49:49
His appointment versus. 01:49:53
A city manager who we all. 01:49:55
Have reporting authority over. 01:49:58
David, could I ask those things? Sorry. 01:50:00
Most cities also have assistant city managers too. 01:50:03
And we don't have that. 01:50:07
Yeah. You don't have that. We don't have an assistant city manager, correct? Yeah. 01:50:08
No, there's a lot. 01:50:11
I don't disagree with anything that's been said really. 01:50:16
The six member. 01:50:19
Council, it's. 01:50:22
Kind of, it feels like it's kind of in between. 01:50:24
Right between like. 01:50:26
We're just barely said it went from Township to a city. 01:50:27
5 member, right? Then you go kind of grow and then eventually it's just, it's kind of a stopgap, right? 01:50:30
Vineyard, I anticipate they're gonna in 20 years when we're built out or how many years were built out, it'll be. 01:50:35
OK. 01:50:41
This is probably. 01:50:43
This is going to probably be a full time mayor. 01:50:44
Right, or something like that. And then. 01:50:46
Just have a really good delineation of responsibility, so. 01:50:49
I think the debate is, is where do we want to go? 01:50:52
Right as we kind of earn our teenage years, I guess you could call it. 01:50:55
My thought is that. 01:51:01
I understand everything, David Pierce, your point? 01:51:04
Parker, everyone. 01:51:07
Very points really well taken because ultimately. 01:51:08
Operational efficiency, it's. 01:51:13
That. 01:51:16
They report to ultimately one person that just. It just works better that way. 01:51:17
But. 01:51:23
With that being said, I just. 01:51:24
The concern I I just want to make sure. 01:51:26
That, uh. 01:51:29
Ultimately, we are. 01:51:30
Sticking closest to what? 01:51:33
The people voted for. 01:51:35
And ensuring that's happened and give counsel. 01:51:38
I want to have counsel, feel comfortable. 01:51:41
Having. 01:51:44
More say in the day-to-day operations of the city. 01:51:46
And like Ezra said, let's just say, OK, let's just say that we. 01:51:51
In 10 years from now? 01:51:55
There's a mayor that everyone hates, right? 01:51:56
Thankfully, we all get along very well, right We we just do and we were aligned in. 01:51:59
Most things. 01:52:04
Umm. 01:52:06
But it can change and I don't want to get. 01:52:08
Our city in a situation down the road. 01:52:11
Where? 01:52:14
Because the other challenge is is one of the hardest things is when you give. 01:52:16
The mayor, a ton of power is getting back from him. 01:52:20
It's just brutal. 01:52:22
And I'm saying. 01:52:24
Things are. 01:52:25
Let's make sure. 01:52:25
That we have this right. 01:52:28
Because I'm not. 01:52:30
You know. 01:52:32
I'm not inner, I'm not one to. 01:52:34
Not power hungry. I don't. It's not me. 01:52:37
I just want but I want to run an efficient city and make sure everyone feels comfortable. 01:52:39
That you guys have the access to the to the staff and all that. 01:52:45
To get your initiatives across. 01:52:48
And so forth so. 01:52:51
Those are my thoughts. 01:52:52
To some umm. 01:52:54
Basically it's. 01:52:55
We're in the we're. 01:52:57
The proverbial teenager were gangly. You know, we're growing fast and. 01:52:59
Skinny and lurky and of this weird. And so it's like, how do we handle that until we mature? 01:53:02
Down the road so. 01:53:08
That's all I would have to say. 01:53:11
So so just a couple things on the. 01:53:12
City code. 01:53:16
Revisions that I've gathered. 01:53:16
So in a four. 01:53:18
Under the first part, just specifying. 01:53:22
Right now it just says events, lobbying, media, communications, so specifying those. 01:53:24
Additional responsibilities that are going to be in the mayor's office. 01:53:28
And then? 01:53:31
I just had a comment about 7. 01:53:33
Maybe having some sort of? 01:53:36
I mean, I guess. 01:53:39
You know, the council sets the budget, so you've got to operate within the budget, but. 01:53:40
Maybe be helpful to have. 01:53:44
Just I'm always going to advocate for the staffing plan to be reviewed by the council since it's such a. 01:53:46
Huge potential impact on the budget. 01:53:51
For sure. 01:53:52
OK, so. 01:53:56
OK, Anything else, Council? I think we just sync with Jesse on the wording and. 01:53:58
Talk to him, I think, OK. 01:54:03
OK. 01:54:05
OK, awesome. 01:54:07
Are any other comments on this? 01:54:09
Next steps will be syncing with Jesse. 01:54:11
Get the wording right. 01:54:14
Final thing for final, final thing for vote next week. 01:54:16
So, OK, great. 01:54:19
Awesome. 01:54:20
Oh sorry, I had one more comment on the. 01:54:21
On the resolution I saw that the resolution for the. 01:54:24
City manager appointments on there too. 01:54:27
Could we have that agreement? 01:54:29
I would. 01:54:31
Recommend that agreement being a. 01:54:32
At least. 01:54:34
Reviewed. 01:54:35
By the Council as well. 01:54:36
That's another one where I've. 01:54:37
I just want to make sure. 01:54:39
In line with. 01:54:40
Our budget, all of our. 01:54:41
You're talking about Brian's? 01:54:43
Brian yeah, that resolution 20/26/29 and. 01:54:44
Well, there's two Section 4. 01:54:48
Making one of those Section 4, Section 5 and then. 01:54:50
In Section 2. 01:54:54
OK, having that. 01:54:56
Terms, all that stuff approved by the Council, since you know, if we can. 01:54:57
Jointly hire and fire em. I think we should all. 01:55:01
Kind of have that input which you've been providing us, which is great I think. 01:55:03
We should just make that official though. Sure, sounds good. 01:55:07
OK, great. 01:55:10
OK, alrighty. 01:55:11
We got one last. 01:55:13
Let's see. 01:55:15
Anything else on this 5.2? 01:55:17
OK, all righty. 01:55:20
I wanted to give a quick update on 5.4, kind of where we are with Cadence. 01:55:23
We got staff here is Anthony took off. 01:55:27
He stepped out OK, so just high level we're. 01:55:31
Really familiar with this development agreement came to the last Council. 01:55:33
There's stuff inside the Cadence development agreement they don't like. 01:55:37
There's stuff inside we don't mic. 01:55:40
There's Diz, but we're under contract. We have a, we have a DA today. 01:55:43
Cadence asked to change some things, which is totally within their right. 01:55:48
We asked to change some things that we don't like. 01:55:51
And. 01:55:55
So we're just kind of an impasse, emails back and forth. 01:55:56
I'm waiting. I think that. 01:55:59
There is going to be withdraw. 01:56:00
Of the development agreement. 01:56:02
Is what I think. 01:56:04
The last e-mail I read. 01:56:05
But we'll just kind of wait and see. 01:56:06
And if not, we'll just. 01:56:08
Pounded out next week. 01:56:12
Oh, so, OK. Anthony, did you have anything you needed to talk about the cadence? 01:56:13
I just had a brief summary about the entire project. 01:56:19
Just to keep everyone. 01:56:22
OK, OK. 01:56:23
Did did do we have any questions for? 01:56:25
I don't know, can we get the presentation first? 01:56:28
Sure, sure. Let's do it. 01:56:31
So just. 01:57:00
Just before you get into your discussions, this would provide the public and the rest of Council. 01:57:02
With. 01:57:08
An update on what's been going on. 01:57:09
So. 01:57:11
Great. Thank you. My name is Anthony Fletcher and I will be presenting this on behalf of Planning and Engineering and Public 01:57:17
Works. 01:57:20
So. 01:57:26
A summary of the entire holdaway fields development. A development agreement was approved. 01:57:28
And you know, July of 2020. 01:57:33
2022. 01:57:37
And the parties involved. 01:57:38
As the developer. 01:57:40
Was. 01:57:41
Cadence Homes being led by Ryan Bybee. 01:57:42
We have them here. 01:57:45
And we also have good Burrow being led by Nate Burchill and. 01:57:46
Eric Moghuli. 01:57:52
Current update on the build out. We have 14 under construction and we have 35. 01:57:54
Completed. Yeah. 01:57:59
To give you a context. 01:58:01
Of where it's located. 01:58:03
It's down this. 01:58:06
You know, Main row, Main St. 01:58:07
South of the city. 01:58:10
And that here shows a breakdown. 01:58:14
Of the overall site and what is intended to go in, it's going to be a 200 and. 01:58:17
95 unit. 01:58:22
Development. 01:58:25
Which is going to be a mix of larger single family homes and much smaller lots. 01:58:26
Which you know we call the cottage lots here on the development which would be the 55 plus communities with much smaller units. 01:58:32
So the developer is required according to development agreement to provide 3 parks as part of the development. 01:58:42
Also provide a senior housing. 01:58:50
Clubhouse and some amenities and throughout this development there's their milestones to. 01:58:53
Reach where they connect to. 01:59:00
The roads and extents and roads that exist in the city and trails as well. 01:59:02
So just to give an example of how the milestones are being worked out. 01:59:08
One of the parks which is the Westlake Park. 01:59:14
Is intended to be plotted with. 01:59:18
Phase three and completed before they have any. 01:59:21
Certificate of occupancy for any of the homes in phase three in the current development agreement that's been recorded. 01:59:26
And other two parks are intended to be. 01:59:32
You know the same conditions for phase 7. 01:59:36
And this is just to give you an idea of, you know, the various parks and how it's been programmed. I'm not. 01:59:41
Delve too much into it. 01:59:47
I'm just going to run through. 01:59:49
A few of these SO. 01:59:52
We received. 01:59:54
Developmental. 01:59:56
Development agreement Amendment application. 01:59:57
By the developer. 02:00:00
And. 02:00:02
What they're requesting to do is to change the facing. 02:00:03
Plan. 02:00:07
And and the reasoning behind that is so that the. 02:00:09
You know, umm. 02:00:12
The the way they build out is. 02:00:13
Better reflecting of what? 02:00:15
Their construction strategy is and how the market is dictating to whatever. 02:00:17
Products that you're putting out? 02:00:22
And also this would affect. 02:00:24
When they. 02:00:27
Get parks out. 02:00:28
You know. 02:00:30
Dedicated to the city. 02:00:31
On the timing. 02:00:33
Especially yeah. 02:00:34
So we did a big review about it. 02:00:37
This entire application and we had some concerns our staff. 02:00:40
That we brought to the attention of the governing Body. 02:00:45
And. 02:00:50
One of that would be. 02:00:52
That the current development agreement locks in the. 02:00:54
Impact fees for. 02:00:57
The developers. 02:00:59
In developing the 295 units. 02:01:00
Of homes that they're. 02:01:03
Plan to build. 02:01:04
And. 02:01:06
We as staff. 02:01:07
You know have some recommendations I'm going to run through and also. 02:01:08
We want to see this, seize this opportunity. 02:01:12
To you know, at least. 02:01:15
In this, you know, renegotiation of this amendment. 02:01:17
Allow the governing body to decide on which structures of the existing parks that they have. 02:01:21
We have. 02:01:27
The existing areas that has been designated for parks that we have structures on. 02:01:29
I know there's been interest by the Heritage Commission and you know, arts and all that to keep some of these structures for some. 02:01:34
Heritage nature of these parks that will be built in the future, so at least the. 02:01:42
Governing body or council should be given. 02:01:48
One year period. 02:01:50
Through all this amendment process to decide on what they want to keep and what they don't want to keep because. 02:01:51
The developer can tear it down and we cannot tell them to stop it if we. 02:01:58
Decide to. 02:02:01
So to give you an idea, this is how the. 02:02:04
Originally approved. 02:02:08
Face and plan looks like. 02:02:10
We have worked with them over time because there's been constant, you know? 02:02:12
As they built because this was hypothetical when they started in government agreement was signed. 02:02:16
As they start to build, they find little things that would be more helpful and we've been working with them over time. 02:02:22
To accommodate some of these changes and nuances that comes with development implementation on the ground. 02:02:28
We work with them to have this. 02:02:35
You know, administratively approved. 02:02:37
Phase and plan which just essentially. 02:02:40
Removed 22 lots from phase six and incorporated that into phase two and removed, you know, 34 lots from phase two and designated 02:02:43
that into phase six. Just helping them work well with. 02:02:49
How the building strategy is, and we realize that's more and more of these change requests happened. It had to really be turned 02:02:55
into a major amendment application rather than having to change little things here and there. So we do it all once and with the 02:03:01
help of the council. 02:03:06
So this is what is being. 02:03:14
Proposed by the applicant. 02:03:15
A lot of changes. I have it here side by side. 02:03:19
Or on top of each other. 02:03:22
Carly approved. 02:03:25
On the on the. 02:03:26
Image and one on the bottom is what is being proposed. You can tell that. 02:03:28
Phase 6 is now going to be Phase 9. 02:03:33
And you know phase 8 is going to be phase 6. 02:03:36
A&B and you know C is just quite a bit of changes that we need to all coordinate on. 02:03:39
Now. 02:03:46
The impact fee breakdown that we had talked about. 02:03:47
I talked, I mentioned earlier, we have two developers. 02:03:50
The Cadence home that's on the north portion of the development, which is north of 400 S. 02:03:53
And no. 02:03:58
North of. 02:04:01
Yeah, North or farther South and Goodborough, which is? 02:04:02
Located South of Florida South. 02:04:06
Now based on. 02:04:09
How they're being serviced with sewer, it affects the prices. And so this is just a breakdown for Cadence and we have the same 02:04:12
breakdown given for. 02:04:16
Goodborough. 02:04:22
Developer as well. 02:04:24
I don't want to go into all the specifics, but you can tell from here. I'm just going to go up to cadence. You can tell from here. 02:04:26
There are a few changes here where. 02:04:30
You know the. 02:04:34
Water. 02:04:35
The impact fee on, you know. 02:04:37
Central Water, when they signed up, it was being. 02:04:39
For water was Aurum water. 02:04:43
And now it's being provided by. 02:04:46
Central Utah Water At the time it was about 2800. 02:04:48
And now is about 7879 hundred. 02:04:52
That's a change. So if we restrict it. 02:04:55
We see that as an. 02:04:57
Issue for, you know, the city, if the city decides to keep this restricted while they're trying to make a lot of. 02:04:58
You know, request for amendments to the development agreement and that's just one of them. We don't, you know, at the time when 02:05:05
this was being signed, we didn't have a parks and recs impact fee. 02:05:10
We currently do have that, so we just. 02:05:14
Put that in the. 02:05:17
And this breakdown to give you a fair idea of how it's going to look if we had to even charge that. 02:05:18
Right, same breakdown. 02:05:23
You know. 02:05:26
Analogy for. 02:05:28
Goodborough as well. 02:05:29
The changes are a little different because for them. 02:05:31
They have been being. 02:05:33
Sarah fees being paid to arm reclamation. 02:05:36
District and not TSSD which is the other one for. 02:05:39
Cadence home on the Northside of Four Under South. 02:05:43
So there's a lot to think about when it comes to them having a restricted. 02:05:47
Or locked in impact fees from the time it got signed. 02:05:51
And. 02:05:55
For the current. 02:05:57
You know. 02:05:58
You know fees and if it's not restricted. 02:05:59
I have a column that. 02:06:02
You know. 02:06:03
Breaks it down as well and we can go more into detail if you want to later on. 02:06:04
I want to hold you up here too much now. 02:06:09
You know, after all the. 02:06:12
Review discussions, Analysis possible. 02:06:13
You know, we, we support the. 02:06:17
I want to say I want to. 02:06:20
You choose my rewards, right? 02:06:21
Everything that they have. 02:06:24
Applied for. 02:06:27
Is consistent and in compliance with. 02:06:28
General plan. 02:06:32
You know, various plans that exist in the city. 02:06:33
So they're in compliance, however. 02:06:36
We want to subject. 02:06:40
You know, have a clarification on the timing of impact fees? 02:06:42
While they're having this amendment be reviewed by. 02:06:46
Staff and council so that. 02:06:50
You know, moving forward we can have. 02:06:52
Impact fees be assessed and calculated. 02:06:55
You know, at the time of a building permit application. 02:06:58
As is done everywhere else. 02:07:02
And. 02:07:05
We do not. 02:07:06
A staff support. 02:07:07
Locking in impact fees. 02:07:09
You know, for any you know executed. 02:07:12
Development agreement at all, so would like to have that. 02:07:16
Straighten out. 02:07:20
While we do this amendment. 02:07:21
Also we included in the, you know. 02:07:22
Probably in Page 9. 02:07:25
Of the. 02:07:26
Proposed amendment change. We included language. We worked with our attorney Jesse Ritto to come up with a language that. 02:07:28
Does not restrict the impact fees. 02:07:35
Moving forward. 02:07:37
So you can review that as well. 02:07:38
Thank you. 02:07:41
Questions are all for Anthony Counsel. 02:07:42
Regarding this. 02:07:45
So just to be clear. 02:07:47
Then the the impact feed. 02:07:49
Differences of those fees those those are. 02:07:51
Charges that come to the city that we would have to pay. 02:07:54
Eventually, uh. 02:07:57
And so the city would have to pay those. 02:07:58
Well, they're, they're pass through. There's some, yes, they're getting pass through fees we don't have to pay. They're not city. 02:08:00
Levied fees, those are, yes, they're third party fees. We aren't paying for them. 02:08:06
Somebody would have to pay him. 02:08:11
Yes, we don't. We aren't issuing right now. We have to. Let me back up. 02:08:13
No, we're not issuing builders permits until they're paid. 02:08:17
They're not. We have no control over them. 02:08:20
So they have to be paid, they have to be for building before it's. 02:08:22
So. And that's the thing we have control over. 02:08:27
OK, so I'd like to say next steps. 02:08:30
After whatever discussion we have today. 02:08:35
Or Council has today. 02:08:37
You'd have to have a public hearing. Schedule a date for a public hearing. 02:08:40
Where this? 02:08:44
Item is going to be considered formally. 02:08:45
And since this is a work session, just discussion so you guys can all be on the same page before we move to that. 02:08:48
And after that public hearing? 02:08:55
Which could all be in the same meeting would have it as a business item. 02:08:58
Where a City Council makes a decision. 02:09:02
And. 02:09:04
You know, makes an. 02:09:06
Takes an action on that. 02:09:07
And at that point? 02:09:08
City Council can either approve. 02:09:10
Approve with certain conditions. 02:09:13
Based on what you decide and discuss. 02:09:15
And also deny. 02:09:18
Develop an agreement. 02:09:19
Amendment Application. 02:09:21
OK. Thank you. 02:09:25
That's all I have. 02:09:27
Thank you. 02:09:28
Counsel any discussion. 02:09:29
Regarding this. 02:09:31
This is a developer. How many comments? 02:09:36
Which that did the developer? How many comments? 02:09:39
Do you have any comments, Ryan? 02:09:42
Of course. 02:09:47
I feel like we've hashed this out. 02:09:51
A lot, yeah. 02:09:53
Discussed it many times. 02:09:55
I think our our kind of current request is and there was an e-mail sent in response to your e-mail. 02:09:57
Mayor last week requesting that. 02:10:03
This be moved to the City Council. 02:10:05
Per the motion that was made by the. 02:10:07
Planning Commission. 02:10:09
Which essentially says that I think we agree on everything. 02:10:11
Both from the city's perspective and developers perspective. 02:10:15
Except for the impact fee issue, which is a big one for both you and it is for us as well. For both of us, yeah. 02:10:18
It's the crux of the whole issue, correct? Yeah. 02:10:25
And I don't know to be honest that it's going to get resolved between. 02:10:28
Yeah, we've met with you. We've tried to come up with understand where warriors are now talking. They there was they had a 02:10:31
conversation. So I think that perhaps the thing to do is just. 02:10:35
Yeah, anyways. 02:10:40
Keep going please. 02:10:41
Yeah, I guess my my question is, is. 02:10:42
Can we not agree to disagree on that point and let that be sorted out between attorneys? We're continuing to pay, as you know. 02:10:47
The building permit. 02:10:55
Fees. Umm. 02:10:57
Obviously under duress or protest, we don't agree with them, but we're paying them because we have. 02:10:59
To continue building. 02:11:04
But everything else in the development agreement. 02:11:05
We agree on. 02:11:08
So can we not move forward and accept? 02:11:09
There's doesn't put the city in any negative worse position if we're wrong on the interpretation in the development agreement. 02:11:12
Then it's no skin off the city's back. If we're right, then that was. 02:11:19
What we felt was negotiated fair and upfront for. 02:11:23
The dedication of parks. 02:11:26
The size of roads. 02:11:28
The agreement on density in the whole project. So it's a difficult one for us to kind of sit back and say. 02:11:30
We gave the city everything. 02:11:36
Pretty much that they wanted. 02:11:38
Again, we've talked about all this, you know, our position, I just feel like. 02:11:40
It's time to set that position aside, and that was what the Planning Commission said. 02:11:43
And let's move forward and adopt. 02:11:47
Or amend the development agreement for all the other points that are both good for the city and good for us. Sure. 02:11:50
And let the let the play out. Let that play out how it plays out. 02:11:55
Thank you. 02:11:59
You can be seated now. Thank you. Can I ask? 02:12:00
Trying to. 02:12:05
Formulate this in my head. 02:12:06
Ryan just made the the comments that. 02:12:09
You know, it doesn't put the city in a worse position, David. 02:12:12
Previously brought up the fact that if. 02:12:15
The impact fees aren't paid, the city pays the difference because those are required prior to the building so. 02:12:17
And in my head, that does put the city in a worse position. But then there's another factor that maybe needs to be considered and 02:12:23
that's. 02:12:26
You get people in and you generate property tax revenue on those those lots. 02:12:29
I would be curious to see and I don't know, maybe this is too much to ask. 02:12:34
But what's the actual? 02:12:38
Breakdown. 02:12:42
Of the financial revenues generated. 02:12:43
Per property. 02:12:46
And the time it takes to recoup. 02:12:49
The cost? 02:12:53
Lost to. 02:12:54
Impact fees. 02:12:57
From. 02:12:59
Property. 02:13:00
That taxes, I would imagine that on an average home there, it's probably three years. 02:13:01
It would take three years of property taxes to pay. 02:13:05
For those. 02:13:09
Impact fees. 02:13:10
I'm just curious what then you still have the holistic conversation is you still have the use of the. 02:13:11
City resources during those, correct? Yeah, agreed. So there's a lot to calculate. 02:13:17
But when you look at. 02:13:24
You know, making an investment, for example. 02:13:25
And I'm just playing devil's advocate to get the thought juices flow in here. But when you make an investment for an example, you 02:13:28
don't necessarily think that you're going to get a return in year 1, two or three. 02:13:33
You look at the long term. 02:13:38
Payoff. 02:13:40
To some degree. 02:13:41
That said. 02:13:42
And I know, Ryan, you were in here. 02:13:43
For the presentations on the. 02:13:46
Repavement. 02:13:50
And I think that that's a really big. 02:13:52
Issue. 02:13:56
In regards to. 02:13:57
The necessity for the city to. 02:13:59
Capture impact fees where we can capture them. 02:14:01
For people who maybe were here or weren't here. 02:14:05
When we had Hales Engineering and who was it EPF come in and do their. 02:14:08
Their presentation on why they had implemented that the tough or recommended that. 02:14:13
We identified that the city has. 02:14:18
Something like $30 million in. 02:14:20
Re Sorry, pavement preservation and. 02:14:24
Pavement. 02:14:27
Maintenance, uh. 02:14:28
Over the course of like the next three to five years that was projected. 02:14:29
And our city budget. 02:14:33
Is like. 02:14:35
15 to 17,000,000 total cumulative. 02:14:36
And that's, you know, obviously including a significant amount of. 02:14:39
Outside the city funding. 02:14:42
I think like for this year, for example, we were just talking about it, there's 7 million. 02:14:45
Dollars coming in from grants and from outside funding sources. So really the city generated budget and the capital expenditures 02:14:50
budget is like. 02:14:53
5.7 million. 02:14:58
For capital, capital expenses? 02:14:59
So there's just no way. 02:15:01
Without. 02:15:03
Impact fee collection that the city can afford. 02:15:05
To sustain its current growth. 02:15:09
Correct. And so I think that. 02:15:11
I mean, just sharing that. 02:15:13
For everyone's understanding. 02:15:14
That's the actual impact that we're at, from my perspective, on the City Council. 02:15:16
Is if. 02:15:21
We keep developing and everyone wants to develop because that's what's in the economic best interest for the city. 02:15:22
I'm not trying to share this from an anti development standpoint. 02:15:28
It's the recognition that the city will go bankrupt. 02:15:31
And we will become Orem again. 02:15:35
At least that's I. 02:15:38
Think how that plays out long term, because there's not. 02:15:39
We don't have a mechanism. 02:15:43
To cover that expense. 02:15:45
Overtime. Can I make a comment? Sure, please. I mean please, Mr. Mayor, let's. 02:15:47
I will allow one comment. 02:15:53
Come on up, Ryan. 02:15:55
I totally understand your position. 02:15:58
The challenge for us is that. 02:16:00
The conversation and the negotiation ship has sailed. 02:16:03
And we? 02:16:07
Did things based on what was presented and done, like and and. 02:16:08
To come back and say nothing changes on. 02:16:13
Your side. 02:16:15
You continue to do everything that we got from you. 02:16:17
But we now want you to do this. 02:16:20
Is that just that? That's the that's a hard pill to swallow. 02:16:23
Can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. 02:16:27
You. 02:16:29
Just mentioned that nothing changes on your side. 02:16:31
There is. 02:16:34
Proposed changes though, could you? 02:16:35
Sure, maybe sure what that sure looks like. 02:16:37
There is nothing in this development agreement. 02:16:39
That has not. 02:16:42
Or was not important to the city that hasn't been delivered for South is done, East to West connections are done. 02:16:43
All we are trying to do. 02:16:49
Is bring in lots. 02:16:51
In this area, sooner than lots in that area. 02:16:53
Doesn't impact the city at all. There's no negative impact of the city whether we bring in a lot. 02:16:56
Here or there. 02:17:02
That I can see. You may smile, Mayor, but I that's what I'm trying to say is like. 02:17:04
There is no. 02:17:08
There, yes, we would like. 02:17:09
The only thing we would like to do is build phase three over phase 7. 02:17:11
Yeah, substantively, there's no change in that. There's ask. 02:17:14
Why? Because I recognize you're running a business. I run a business. There's a. 02:17:19
Financial or economic driver in there somewhere there is not. 02:17:23
Goodborough Development is selling single 55 and older homes fast, slower than we are selling single family homes. 02:17:27
Our phasing plan, which we were asked to do at the beginning of a 300 lot subdivision, was a shot in the dark. Did I anticipate 02:17:35
that $1.2 million homes were going to sell faster than $700,000 homes? I did not. 02:17:41
So because we're joined at the hip and because there's phasing plans there. 02:17:48
We're stuck. I can't build any more houses because Goodborough can't move forward with their phase before I move forward with my 02:17:52
next phase. That's the only reason. 02:17:56
But it's no financial impact to me. 02:18:00
Or to them, it's just simply saying, let's bring on more single family homes. 02:18:03
Than 55 and older homes. We're not asking to deliver parks differently. 02:18:07
We're not asking to deliver rows differently, they're all delivered. 02:18:11
But isn't the impact fee also a shot in the dark because we didn't realize that we would have to increase our impact fees and so 02:18:14
therefore we had a unintended cost increase as well? 02:18:19
Like I see that as both sides like. 02:18:25
You're wanting to tie in your. 02:18:27
Your cost that can be stuck. 02:18:29
Yet in the real world, the city. 02:18:32
Had to. 02:18:34
Adjust for inflation and all the different costs. 02:18:35
Like we didn't. Ours was a shot in the dark on the impact fees back then when we signed it anywhere. 02:18:38
So it's like you had to guess and we had to guess and you guessed wrong and we guessed wrong. And now we're like, wow, our impact 02:18:46
fees are completely off. It doesn't even cover. I guess it's much different when you're guessing on dollars versus. 02:18:51
Where lots are coming in, that's the difference is we have an ***. You're still guessing on dollars depending on what you're 02:18:57
selling like versus you're not selling smaller lots versus the bigger. I mean nobody knows. 02:19:02
Which ones you're going to sell, I mean. 02:19:08
I guess it's like. 02:19:11
I see both sides. 02:19:12
Yeah, we didn't know about the future, but it's like all these pass through costs. 02:19:15
Asking the city to pay for the other. 02:19:19
Government entities. 02:19:22
Even though their costs went up, that locked you in. The difference here is is density is like we this is. 02:19:24
This is the only 110 acre. 02:19:31
Strictly single family development that I know of in all of Utah. 02:19:34
Right now. And we did that. 02:19:38
In exchange and conversation with the city. 02:19:40
You won't be able to find another 110 acre development. 02:19:43
Currently under construction that is straight single family homes. 02:19:46
Can I ask a question about? 02:19:50
The impact fees I previously had mentioned. 02:19:52
When you were here a month or two ago? 02:19:57
You know I look at this. 02:20:00
You implement an impact fee. 02:20:01
The builder pays that upfront, but you. 02:20:03
Tack it on to the cost of the home. 02:20:06
It's easier to. 02:20:08
Pass that to a consumer via a 30 year mortgage where that $5000 or so is. 02:20:10
You know, wrapped up into a few $100 a year overtime. 02:20:15
As opposed to it. 02:20:19
You know, implementing a fee or a tax at the city level. 02:20:20
That would. 02:20:24
Essentially, try to recoup those costs faster to keep us. 02:20:25
From having an operating deficit. 02:20:29
What's the? 02:20:31
Hesitation from your end. We sell home based on what the market is. We don't sell a home. 02:20:32
Saying it's this price. 02:20:37
And then we're going to add on these fees that the city has imposed. It's just not the way. It's just not the way a free market 02:20:39
works. It's not it's like. 02:20:43
This is a cost that. 02:20:48
You're now asking the developer to bear. 02:20:49
You're not asking for the end user to bear. I'm stuck on what I can charge a home for based on what the market is. I can't go out 02:20:52
tomorrow and say I'm going to increase home prices. 02:20:57
$11,000 because impact fees change today. 02:21:02
It's not the way. It's not the way that would work. Appreciate it so. 02:21:06
We're 15 minutes gone over. 02:21:10
So thank you, Ryan. I think we're done with. 02:21:11
We'll appreciate your comments. 02:21:13
Council do want to discuss anything else before we wrap this up. 02:21:18
I think, I think this whole, this whole, is there any, this Goodborough have any? 02:21:22
I know a lot of this has just been are you just representing Goodborough too? 02:21:27
Yeah. 02:21:30
Is there anything we need to do for? 02:21:33
Vineyard Days. 02:21:36
No, I think we need a picture. 02:21:37
We need what I need a picture. 02:21:40
A picture picture. 02:21:42
When you go take a picture. So let's get that. Thank you. Meeting adjourned. 02:21:44
Thank you. Anthony, would you keep the? 02:21:48
Video umm. 02:21:51
Online I mean the picture on the screens. 02:21:52
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Transcript

Event transcript
Hey, all righty. 00:12:02
What's the? 00:12:06
Let's go ahead and get started. It is May 19th, 2026. 00:12:08
It is 4/04. 00:12:12
PM I am Mayor Zach Stratton. 00:12:14
Call to order the City Council meeting. 00:12:16
I did not. 00:12:20
Get anyone lined up for Pledge of Allegiance. 00:12:21
But. 00:12:23
Holden, have you had the opportunity to say the pledge yet? 00:12:23
Or the prayer. 00:12:27
And earn a pin. 00:12:28
Holden needs a pen. So brother, we're going to turn the time to you to start us off with a prayer and. 00:12:31
Than the pledge. 00:12:36
All right. 00:12:37
Heavenly Father, we're grateful for this day and the opportunity we have to meet today to discuss the needs of the city of 00:12:40
Vineyard, and we're grateful. 00:12:42
For all the residents that are here today and those that are not, we ask for safety to be upon us and help us to have. 00:12:45
Thy spirit in our discussions today that we may be able to be able to be productive. 00:12:53
Do good work and we pray for these things. The name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:12:56
Amen. Please stand. 00:12:59
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:13:06
Of the United States of America. 00:13:08
And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:13:11
One nation under God. 00:13:13
Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 00:13:15
Awesome. Thank you. 00:13:22
All righty, we are going to open up the meeting with item number 3 here. Conflict of interest. Turn the time over to Council. 00:13:23
If there's anyone have comments or. 00:13:31
On this one. 00:13:33
All right, hearing none, we will jump to #4 public comments. If anyone's here from the public they would like to comment. 00:13:35
Please come on up, state your name. 00:13:41
And and. 00:13:44
We all good. 00:13:47
Looks like we mostly have staff here today. 00:13:48
OK, great. 00:13:50
All righty, we will now jump to our work session. 00:13:53
Decay. We wanted to do the. 00:13:57
The staff presentations first was that. 00:13:59
Yeah, on the budget. OK. Sounds good. 00:14:01
So I'm going to turn the time to David Karl to kind of run point on the. 00:14:04
The budget presentations and so forth. So go ahead. So we have. 00:14:09
Chief Deputy Holden here, and he's going to be leaving at 5:00 today and he would like to address council questions and concerns 00:14:13
about the. 00:14:19
The sheriff's budget. 00:14:28
For the following fiscal year. Awesome. Thank you. 00:14:30
Holding you kind of want to walk us through a high level real quick and then council, if there's any questions we will. 00:14:33
On that. 00:14:39
Yeah. So this was. 00:14:40
So the proposed budget right now? 00:14:44
Is to. 00:14:46
State status quo on staffing. 00:14:47
With our 18 sworn positions. 00:14:50
The two additional asks as far as budgets go this year. 00:14:52
One was for five additional cameras for our Flock camera system and then some person money for our Rad Women program. I know last 00:14:56
meeting there was a question on Rad Women. 00:15:00
We did a class here in Vineyard recently who was very well attended. That's a rape aggression defense class for women. 00:15:04
So kind of like a self-defense class? 00:15:11
We do it throughout the county as a Sheriff's Office. In Eagle Mountain, they do it as well. 00:15:14
And we just started that this year. And so that money will go towards some of the equipment that we use. 00:15:19
So there's like live scenarios that they do, they go, they go through in self-defense and we need some equipment to do that. And 00:15:23
so that's mostly what those those funds would be used for. 00:15:28
The one question, the other question is, and maybe some of the Council members may have asked this question, is the increase from 00:15:34
last year. 00:15:37
When we added three positions in January, those were only for half the fiscal year, obviously so. 00:15:40
That was only half the cost and so now this next year those three positions are at full cost for the for the fiscal year. And so 00:15:46
that was part of that jump in, in the in the cost and then as per the contract. 00:15:52
Some the positions the the cost goes up 4% every year unless the county incurs costs above that, then we can send the city a 00:15:58
notice of a higher increase. And we did that with a few positions. Some were 5% and some were up to the 6%. 00:16:05
Mostly in. 00:16:13
Or do because of. 00:16:15
Raise that the county gave the some some of the employees of the Sheriff's Office so that. 00:16:17
Increased cost to the Sheriff's Office in wage and benefits is. 00:16:23
The the reason for those larger increases so. 00:16:27
Great. 00:16:30
Kay Council, any questions with Holden? 00:16:32
On his. 00:16:34
As budget. 00:16:35
You mentioned. 00:16:37
An existing flock camera. 00:16:40
System umm. 00:16:42
How many cameras do we already have? 00:16:43
5. 00:16:45
And we're adding five more, yes. 00:16:46
So the flock conversation is a. 00:16:48
Phenomenal system that allows us. 00:16:50
Just for example, we recently had a theft at Lockheed Martin. 00:16:53
Someone of their big aluminum molds was stolen. Several of them were stolen out of their yard. 00:16:56
We solved it like in a day because of our flock camera systems. 00:17:02
You probably heard about the I think it was a double homicide in Wayne County this year. 00:17:05
That person was caught because of thought camera systems out in Colorado and there's dozens of other. We've had many more cases in 00:17:10
Vineyard that we've utilized the system to catch people, to catch people coming into our city that are. 00:17:16
Wanted or have you know? 00:17:22
Things like that. So. 00:17:24
For security purposes, you probably don't. 00:17:27
Say where they're at. 00:17:30
In the public, right, I mean, you can see them. We, we try to strategically place them for coming into the city or out of the city 00:17:31
so we can capture. 00:17:35
The vehicles that are coming or going and the reason for adding more is they only catch capture One Direction right now. And so 00:17:38
we'll be able to add more and capture both because there have been several cases where the guys are like man I. 00:17:43
It should be there, but it's not because they're going the opposite direction. 00:17:49
So with these flock cameras will we have? 00:17:52
Complete coverage over the city or getting close to complete very, very closely coverage, yes. 00:17:55
Great, so and one important thing for. 00:18:00
The privacy aspect of it, there's no facial recognition, data is only stored for 30 to 45 days, and we can only access it with a 00:18:03
legitimate law enforcement purpose. 00:18:08
So and if there's a complete audit trail of anything we access. 00:18:12
So. 00:18:16
One other question on the. 00:18:18
Contract. 00:18:20
The sheriff vehicles that you guys. 00:18:22
Use those are proportioned through the county and then. 00:18:24
The the fuel is that. 00:18:27
Covered in the contract or do we the city pay for the fuel? No so. 00:18:30
The contract cost breach position includes wage benefits, training, uniform allowance, computers, radios, vehicles, fuel, 00:18:34
insurance, all of it. So all those things are included in that. 00:18:39
Per deputy, per Sergeant, per chief Deputy Costa. That's established in that. 00:18:45
One of the questions I think that was asked also last council meeting was an. 00:18:49
Again, the question about equipment, for example, this year we're replacing, I believe it's six of our Tahoes in our fleet here in 00:18:54
Vineyard. And so those those get replaced every four years. 00:18:58
At the end of the life. 00:19:03
Technically, those vehicles belong to the city. 00:19:04
The county can either. There's two options. The city could. 00:19:07
We could turn the vehicles over to the city and they could utilize them as part of their fleet. 00:19:11
Or the county sells them at auction per this. 00:19:15
Auction rules. 00:19:18
And then whatever proceeds come from that auction. 00:19:19
That gets returned to the city in the form of a bill credit. So reduction in in whatever month. 00:19:22
Bill, that those coming at. 00:19:27
And so this year I mean in. 00:19:28
I believe last fiscal year we had. 00:19:30
I think it was close to $80,000 in bill credits because of the sale of vehicles. This year will probably be more than that because 00:19:33
of the amount of vehicles were. 00:19:37
We surplus how many we are, I think we're 66. So I mean we could potentially they're Tahoes that are in pretty good shape 00:19:41
depending on Wichita. I get I can't tell you exactly how much they'll sell for. They're probably close to 20,000 apiece. Okay, 00:19:46
roughly 20 grand. So we'll have a. 00:19:50
A decent statement credit, hopefully A6 figure. 00:19:56
You know, OK. 00:19:59
Statement or bill credit? 00:19:59
So awesome. 00:20:01
Any other questions? 00:20:03
David, Jacob, you guys concerns? 00:20:05
Go ahead, Ezra. 00:20:09
I know we talked about. 00:20:13
Code enforcement activities. 00:20:15
With the Sheriff's Department, a little bit. 00:20:17
I. 00:20:20
There's no increase for that. 00:20:22
Talk about. 00:20:25
How we're structuring. 00:20:26
So when David and David, Kyle and I have met and talked about code enforcement. 00:20:30
We could put it under meet anything about my umbrella, but at this time we've decided to keep that under the city umbrella and 00:20:35
then we'll just work in close conjunction with them. So there won't be any additional cost for us to work with Ed and whoever else 00:20:40
we hire in the code enforcement team. And so I don't know there's a need to add any dollars to that. We'll just work in close 00:20:45
conjunction with them and and cooperate as we as best we can to. 00:20:50
Make sure that we're. 00:20:55
Addressing the code enforcement needs. 00:20:57
So the only other thing that I mentioned, like we talked about status quo. 00:21:03
One of the things that in meeting with the mayor, he asked, like, how do we determine how many deputies we need? 00:21:07
One of the things that I look at is I'll talk to Chris over here and say, hey, how much more? How many? 00:21:11
Things do or units do we have under construction? We have quite a few under construction right now. 00:21:17
And if they were all filled up the day they got their certificate of occupancies, then we would probably need to increase our 00:21:22
staffing. But as we looked at it was decided, well we will. 00:21:26
Wait and see and readdress it and see how those those units fill up. 00:21:31
With people before we make a decision on staffing. 00:21:35
Walk us through real quick. 00:21:38
Holden, where do you like to be in terms of? 00:21:39
Sheriff per thousand. 00:21:43
Yeah, Right now I as a general rule, I have a goal of having us at one per 12150, so one deputy for every 12150 or one sworn 00:21:45
position for every 12150 residents, which is about right where we're at, depending on which. 00:21:51
Number you use for our population, right? 00:21:58
And that's not a hard and fast rules. We look at more than just that. We look at response times, call volume, types of calls were 00:22:01
going on. 00:22:04
The demographic of the city, how much influx of people are we having because of businesses? 00:22:09
You know, just type all those things. We look at it as a holistic view, not just here's a simple number, but right now as I look 00:22:14
at all those things, that's about where we'd like to be. 00:22:18
So. And I feel really good about that. 00:22:22
OK, great. 00:22:24
Very good counsel. Any other questions for Holden over his budget? 00:22:26
Proposed 20262027 Budget. 00:22:29
What's the dollar value associated with adding the flock camera specifically? 00:22:32
So each camera is $3000 a year, so it's $15,000. So will it be at a total of $30,000 for that system and that? 00:22:37
System any if the cameras go down, they replace them. If they need service, they service them. They're they're almost like a lease 00:22:44
thing so but they take care of it. You don't have to worry about any. 00:22:49
Equipment costs or fixing anything that way. 00:22:55
Software. Everything. 00:22:57
Everything's included story. 00:22:58
All data storage and so forth, everything's included in that. 00:23:00
OK, great. 00:23:03
OK, anything else, Council, before we go on to the next one? 00:23:04
Thank you for adjusting for me. 00:23:10
You're awesome. 00:23:12
Did we have any other staff Did? 00:23:14
DK Did we need to have other stuff reports? 00:23:16
Good on that. OK. 00:23:21
I I had one thing we. 00:23:25
Had an awesome meeting today about the budget with Evans and their. 00:23:27
Capital improvements and. 00:23:31
Working with. 00:23:33
Them. 00:23:34
There were quite a few capital improvement projects in there. 00:23:35
Brought over from the previous administration. 00:23:38
And one of the things I just wanted to get a consensus with counsel. 00:23:41
Is to just. 00:23:45
Could we ask department heads to review? 00:23:46
Those capital improvement projects and just ensure that they align with the new council and that. 00:23:49
We would actually. 00:23:55
Build what we're planning. There's certain things in there that. 00:23:56
We found 2 Tucker Rowe and. 00:24:00
The wetland delineation, but there could be more so like if you could just. 00:24:02
Instruct staff to like. 00:24:06
Review that and go. 00:24:08
Is this actually going to be built and? 00:24:10
If you feel. 00:24:12
There's any question that? 00:24:16
It might not be just. 00:24:17
Bring it to our attention, because I think we. 00:24:19
Looked through all of them. 00:24:20
But don't want to. 00:24:22
Have any others? 00:24:23
That sounds good. And with that, could we ask maybe for the? 00:24:27
The department recommendation. 00:24:33
What's a priority? What's? 00:24:35
More urgent than not. 00:24:37
Because when we looked at those capital expenditures, I think there's like $5.7 million associated with those this year. 00:24:39
In this year's budget. 00:24:45
There was some things that I think are more nice to have versus a need, so maybe just assess the. 00:24:47
Nature of urgency with those. 00:24:52
Well, and that's one of the reasons. 00:24:55
We brought up the budget today was to. 00:24:58
Have this discussion and in the next meeting. 00:25:00
City Council meeting and work session. It'd be great to. 00:25:04
Continue this discussion because everybody. 00:25:08
The more eyes the better. On the budget, absolutely. 00:25:11
Well, nobody's going to get offended. 00:25:15
By you know, hate changes or we, you know we're. 00:25:16
Everyone. 00:25:20
Sometimes the change is hard, you know, and we lie. 00:25:22
But everyone's been real team player. 00:25:26
The staff are really stepped. They have, yeah. 00:25:29
Awesome. 00:25:32
All righty, let's jump now over to our. 00:25:33
Item 5.1 Tree inventory and planting updates. 00:25:36
We got George, Preston and Blaine here. 00:25:39
You guys ready? 00:25:42
Awesome brother, come on down. 00:25:44
I'm ready for a I'm feeling a great PowerPoint coming on. Well, I'm feeling it. PowerPoint. Whatever, George. 00:25:47
Slay it. It's really 22 parts of this. PowerPoint 1 is our proposed planting plan for this year. 00:25:55
And then the second one is a, you know, potential for a light archery inventory, which is kind of the latest and greatest way to 00:26:01
to manage our urban forests, so. 00:26:05
Just start with a little background. Tree City, USA designated in 2020. 00:26:12
The requirements be. 00:26:17
Three CSA is. 00:26:18
Maintain a tree board. 00:26:19
Or department. 00:26:21
Have community tree ordinance. 00:26:21
Spend $2.00 per capita on urban forestry and celebrate the Arbor Day. 00:26:23
The benefits Environmental health, clean air, increased property values, I mean curb appeal, stormwater improvement quality, 00:26:29
enhanced community pride. 00:26:32
And we take great pride with the Tree State USA designation. Not only is it just, you know, shows that we're working the care and 00:26:36
effort into our urban forest. 00:26:39
You know you plant. 00:26:43
OK, let me see. 00:26:46
Sorry. 00:26:49
So here's our proposed tree planting plan. Grove Park is where we'd like to do a bunch of the plantings. 00:26:51
Original design plan from Grove Park. 00:26:56
Now this was before any of our time, I think probably. 00:26:59
In the room, most likely when this park was was installed as far as staff is concerned, you can see all the trees there. 00:27:03
Mark in red are trees that are missing. 00:27:11
Oh wow, that have been removed. 00:27:14
And so I mean, I'm sure your first question is? 00:27:16
Why are these trees missing? Right? I mean, obviously that's. 00:27:19
That's our first question. 00:27:22
But six years ago when I was hired, the first two weeks my employment here was spent going to every single one of these trees in 00:27:24
Grove Park and a couple of the other adjacent areas. 00:27:28
And uh. 00:27:33
I'm going to skip through a slide real quick. 00:27:34
Removing bald and burlap, not only Baldwin burlap, but the twine that was basically suffocating these trees. So they find it too 00:27:36
deep. You know, Unfortunately we didn't have a city harvest on staff when these were planted. There's a little bit of oversight. 00:27:40
The park went in really quick. 00:27:44
But it was detrimental to trees. We're talking anywhere from six inches to two feet planted too deep. 00:27:48
Dive back in all the trees. Obviously we pruned out the dive back and did our best to remove all of the balder burlap. 00:27:53
The lower picture you can see it looks like a telephone planted in the ground. There's no trunk flare on that. Trees really like 00:27:59
to be they have to be planted a specific depth. If it's deeper than that than than this kind of a long flow depth. Some do better 00:28:03
than others. 00:28:06
Our ash trees, you know, they struggle along and survive, but. 00:28:11
Anyway, that's how we got to where we're at. 00:28:14
West Grove Park, but we've made leaps and strides. 00:28:16
You know, forward. 00:28:19
That's our proposed tree planting plan. Everything in red was a London plain trees. It's not just here in Utah, but they have died 00:28:22
back all across the waste restaurant. I've been to many, many seminars. There's a few people that are successfully, you know, you 00:28:26
know. 00:28:29
Keeping the historic trees alive like BYU has a good man's plan, but it's not feasible for a city like us in a budgetary budget. 00:28:33
We have to do that. So we're really what we're trying to do is the right tree, the right place and kind of start fresh in the. 00:28:38
Military so. 00:28:43
Making it better. So providing we have a proven period now within the city, yet we have to have anyone that plans the city tree on 00:28:48
city property has to have an ISA certified arborist on site for a proofing period to ensure that they're falling proper. 00:28:54
You know industry standards and planning practices to make sure that we're our investments are going in the right direction. 00:29:00
Policies. We have policies set in place to back all that up. 00:29:08
Soil testing volumes and types. We require that they have proper, adequate soil volumes for the size of trees. 00:29:13
Just keep going, you left. 00:29:19
But and then, you know, we have tree manual, our tree manual with diversity requirements to ensure that we're not losing large 00:29:21
rows of trees like we have in the past, like the London Plain problem. That way if we have an insect or disease or damage that 00:29:25
comes in, we're not losing. 00:29:30
An entire St. worth of trees. 00:29:34
Reoccurring tree and landscape inspections obviously are. 00:29:37
Or another thing that we do. 00:29:40
With new plantings especially. 00:29:42
So that's kind of the presentation for our proposed. 00:29:47
Tree plantings in Grove Park, we do have the budget for that. 00:29:50
You know, if approved, we could. 00:29:54
Begin with that. 00:29:57
Pretty soon. 00:29:58
Are you, are we planning on? 00:29:59
Replant any trees outside of Grove Park or just focusing on girl park you know this this year so kind of the way that we've been 00:30:01
doing this is is going through sections like we've yeah Main Street. I'm sure you guys are aware it's been kind of a mess. We had 00:30:05
some irrigation issues there is the irrigation system was designed put in. 00:30:10
Before Grove Park was even put in, as soon as we overcame those hurdles, we we now have a radio communicating irrigation system 00:30:15
because the two hour path failed on the entire system. We were hand watering those zones for for two years by hand all forty of 00:30:19
those zones. 00:30:23
And you know well, how big of a mess that is. So as soon as we've fixed the hurdles and the problems that we've had, we've we've 00:30:28
been able to replace those trees. This is this is just another phase of it. We're planning just Grove Park. 00:30:33
You know, we, we, we shoot for 50 trees with the staff that we have, it gives us. 00:30:40
You know, uh. 00:30:43
We want to make sure that those trees that we plant have the proper clarity needs of the establishment period and that's our sweet 00:30:44
spot. We can we can watch those for the first two to three years of their. 00:30:49
Great. We're well over 90% survival rate on our our newly planted trees now in the city, so. 00:30:53
Any other questions on that first half? 00:31:01
As far as the planting plan is concerned. 00:31:03
Sorry if I missed this. If if there's a. 00:31:06
Like a dead tree and a parks trip that a resident wants to. 00:31:09
Report. Can they? 00:31:12
Just do that on the report concern or is there a different portal where I dealt with those kind of issues all the time? In fact, I 00:31:14
absolutely love. 00:31:17
Working with residents and trees, for one it, you know, I could get out and see what's going on, but it's an education. 00:31:20
Thing as well but yeah, report a concern is great. We'd be happy me or Blaine or. 00:31:26
Press and happy to. 00:31:31
The dress also. 00:31:33
I got a question. 00:31:35
Is it? Is it? 00:31:39
Viable for. 00:31:41
A part a city to. 00:31:43
Plant their own trees in specific sections. 00:31:45
With the idea of moving them? Or is it just cheaper just to buy them and plant them in? 00:31:49
If we had extra, when you said that tree and trees are expensive, when you said that, it took me directly to Harriman City. I've 00:31:56
been in the articles world for a couple decades now, but we did a tour of Harriman City where they're doing the tree plant. They 00:32:00
buy, they buy. 00:32:05
Bare root trees and have, you know, a farm where they farm them themselves. I don't know how viable it was for him. I know that he 00:32:10
did have some success, but as far as the effort that went into it. 00:32:14
Versus compared to what they're getting out of it. A lot of the trees that we're planting here are coming from the Northwest where 00:32:19
they have ideal conditions for for. 00:32:23
Starting trees, right, they don't have to worry about irrigation, they don't have to worry about climate problems. They they grow 00:32:26
really fast and well, they dig them up, they send them down to us. Another thing that I've noticed, like trees, is they're bald 00:32:30
and burlapped. I'd like to look for the best nursery stock I can get, obviously. 00:32:34
The price that we pay for the trees is important, but the quality of the nursery stock is equally, if not more important. 00:32:39
Absolutely, because we don't want to. We want to be a head foot ahead when we start rather than a foot behind with some cheap. 00:32:44
Cheap stock so. 00:32:49
You know, you have a tree that's stored for too long. If it's Baltimore left, it starts its roots. You're you're tearing them off 00:32:51
again. 00:32:54
Or a container ice tree. If it's in that container too long, you're going to get circling roots. 00:32:57
Obviously, I mean, that's that's not a good thing because. 00:33:02
When we pulled that bucket off, we remove those or sever those so they're. 00:33:04
Pull them out right. So we're removing a lot of that root grill, so. 00:33:08
Like from my experience and especially at Wieners standpoint with our budget and the size that we are. 00:33:11
Like we're best off to go for the best stock we can get to put in the ground right from the get go. I didn't know if you were 00:33:16
constrained or hay. In a great world we could do this or save money. I wanted you. 00:33:21
Free to just say hey if I. 00:33:26
Could approach this a different way? I would, and I wanted you to freely think about that so. 00:33:29
Great. Yeah, I appreciate that. 00:33:33
Is this primarily funded out of the same $2.00 per capita as the Tree City budget or is this a separate budget item? Well, so the 00:33:35
way that the $2.00 per capita work and it's, it's great for us because we can use volunteer hours as well. 00:33:42
Our all of our crews put together volunteer stuff where we do. 00:33:48
Well announced mitigation for invasive species and all of those. 00:33:51
Hours. 00:33:54
Go towards that dollar amount. 00:33:55
So we couldn't meet that. I mean, we, we do have a budget that can get close to meeting that, but between our wages, between that, 00:33:57
between our volunteer help that we have. 00:34:01
And all these projects. 00:34:04
Kind of tie together to give us that dollar amount. It's not like we're just putting the whole entire bill where a lot of Labor 00:34:05
and volunteer work goes into that as well, which we've had really good success with. 00:34:10
My last question is, is have you taken a look at the new Clegg Park? 00:34:17
Design and Cadence Home is going to be presenting in the. 00:34:22
Budget but. 00:34:26
Looking at the. 00:34:27
Trees they would be planting and types and stuff. Is that still not? 00:34:28
I've seen like 1000 foot view of it. We would definitely be involved in that. I'm sure. Look, look through that and we do have a 00:34:31
tree inventory that that, that. 00:34:35
All right, sorry I'm I apologize or tree manual. 00:34:38
That directs what trees can and can be planted. But we do have a flexibility clause in that manual as well, right? Like I don't 00:34:41
want to be hard noses that you can't plant this tree, but I. 00:34:44
If you have one you'd like to propose. 00:34:48
We'd love to take a look at it and improve that so. 00:34:50
Right, OK. 00:34:55
OK, great. Do you want to? 00:34:59
Tree Inventory. 00:35:01
Yeah, we'll move on to free inventory, so. 00:35:02
We do have an existing tree inventory we use. It's kind of a traditional, I guess you could say tree inventory. 00:35:05
Where we manage all the trees, we have all 2100 trees. 00:35:11
Here in Vineyard, for the most part, there's a few. 00:35:15
You know updates that need to be done to that. 00:35:17
But we have an inventory that we use as a management tool to kind of direct where we're going with our, with our, with our. 00:35:19
Money and efforts. 00:35:25
Light archery inventory is kind of the latest and greatest. 00:35:28
Some of the benefits. 00:35:31
Well, I'll just read to my slide. It'll help me organize a little bit. So the tree inventory, we have 2200. 00:35:33
Approximately 2200 city trees in Vineyard. 00:35:38
Inspecting what we have obviously structure Brad's enhancement, health clearance. 00:35:42
Measurements. 00:35:47
Photos. We can do all that with our existing tree inventory. 00:35:48
The problem with our existing Crematory is. 00:35:51
All of that stuff requires. 00:35:54
Boots in the field. 00:35:56
It's subjective to the arborist or the person who's taken the the data in. 00:35:57
So there's. 00:36:01
You know, and you think 2200 trees, if we were to totally go through and inspect everyone of those trees, you're looking at a 00:36:02
minimum 15 minutes to tree or 20 minutes to tree. You know that that adds up really fast. We're spending a lot of our resources. 00:36:08
On the people that are. 00:36:14
Taken or collecting this? 00:36:16
Subjective. 00:36:19
Or could be subjective data. 00:36:20
The nice thing with the Lidar, it's non subjective data. 00:36:22
That goes out in billions of points. They can create a 3D. 00:36:26
Clone of the tree. 00:36:29
As you can see in these in these photos, it kind of gives you an idea of what it looks like. 00:36:31
It's non subjective data. 00:36:35
Report of each. 00:36:37
Leaf area measurements help photos 3D model reduce costs through targeted and early interventions so. 00:36:38
The way it's the way I look at it is. 00:36:45
Just it would better focus our efforts. 00:36:49
Rather than collecting the data. 00:36:52
To to maximizing our resources to put them into the care. 00:36:54
And. 00:36:57
You know the needs of the urban forest. 00:36:58
This is real quick. I'll just go through some of the attributes that we collect and this is for, this is some of the stuff they 00:37:01
collect for the light archery inventory, growth form, tree status, taxonomy. So it'll tell us what the tree is. 00:37:07
H class. It goes through dimensions obviously like Earth. 00:37:14
Trunk height, DBH measurements, diameter, breast height right? So it gives us this quantitative data. 00:37:17
Total height. 00:37:22
Crown at base height spread. 00:37:24
I'll continue over tree protection zones. It'll identify if there's construction going on, what what kind of. 00:37:26
Zone should happen. It'll tell us. 00:37:30
You know, like non subjective data on the benefits of the tree, the ecosystem services. 00:37:33
So how much water does rainwater is this? 00:37:39
Tree, you know. 00:37:41
Offset evaporation transportation. 00:37:43
Water intercepted carbon storage, oxygen production. It'll kind of give us an idea of where the urban forest is at and and and in 00:37:46
value as far as. 00:37:50
You know, to the environment. 00:37:54
And then structural. 00:37:56
Metrics this will really help. 00:37:57
Focus like our pruning practices and things like that, so. 00:37:59
Truck stability index Critical wind speed tell you how much wind that tree can handle. 00:38:02
The wall thickness of the tree, the lean and the angle. 00:38:06
And the great thing about this data is that I could pull this up in my office and say, show me all the trees that have brown die 00:38:10
back. 00:38:13
And it'll populate all that I can send my crews out to. 00:38:16
You know, umm. 00:38:19
With work orders to treat each individual tree rather than collecting the data and then. 00:38:20
Doing this, doing that. 00:38:24
The service. 00:38:25
Health vitality, that's a great one. It'll show you the leaf area, the index, live crown ratio, as we talked about crown dieback. 00:38:27
Density. 00:38:34
And then obviously it'll track the history, and this is a huge one, clearances. So right now we have a 12 foot clearance over all 00:38:38
of our roadways, 8 foot over all of our sidewalks. 00:38:42
Again. 00:38:46
It'll pull out all of the outliers. 00:38:47
You just go to the, you know you go to that section of of the the inventory. 00:38:49
You click on it, it will populate a map. We can be like, OK, this week we're focusing on this street. 00:38:53
And here are the individual trees that need to happen and collect that data. Take a picture when you're done with it and it. 00:38:58
Pops it right into the inventory. So basically we're. 00:39:03
Adding non subjective data to our existing inventory and we can pull all of our old data and just tie the both of them together. 00:39:06
And I don't have the cost sheet in there, but for that light archery inventory. So I've been, I've been talking, this has been out 00:39:15
for quite some time. I've been talking with Anne, she's with Davey Tree, those ones who provide this. 00:39:20
American Fork City has been utilizing their laboratory inventory for about 3 years now, four years somewhere in that area. 00:39:26
Lehigh City is now getting their tree inventories. They're doing the largest a large number of their trees. 00:39:33
Real close friends with with with Jessica Smith over there as well. 00:39:36
And then University of Utah is doing it this year. 00:39:40
So for them to come out do this Lidar inventory, they have to have a minimum of 10,000 trees to make it profitable for them to do 00:39:42
it. 00:39:45
But from the relationships that I've got, some of the local people that are offering it to us. 00:39:48
To piggyback off of them, right, so we're not paying all of that big overhead that makes sense to get them out here. And then just 00:39:53
right to the hard numbers like it's, it's 40K to do the entire, just under that, to do the entire inventory. We could break that 00:39:58
into two years. 00:40:02
And I do have contract services budget. 00:40:07
Left. That would cover probably the best portion of half of that for. 00:40:09
You know, to get it started. 00:40:13
We have the contract services budget. We've been doing a lot of the planting and printing stuff in house. So that's kind of way we 00:40:15
haven't utilized as much of that lately. 00:40:19
OK. 00:40:24
Already. Thank you. 00:40:25
Any questions for George here? 00:40:27
Trees this tree resignation. 00:40:29
OK. All righty hearing none. Thank you so much. 00:40:33
Thank you. 00:40:37
All righty, we are going to jump down to next is 5.2 discussion of the. 00:40:41
20262029 City manager responsibilities and duties. 00:40:45
Oh, you guys are next. You guys come up. 00:40:53
We'll do that. You guys are here. 00:40:55
Talk city manager stuff after you're done. 00:41:00
I think so. 00:41:06
Do you want? 00:41:10
Yeah, well, I'm Chris Thomas, the. 00:41:12
Streets and stormwater manager for here in Vineyard. I want to thank the council mayor for giving us a few moments here to. 00:41:16
Talk about something that I'm kind of passionate about. 00:41:23
Which is roadways here being a road manager but. 00:41:26
Pavement preservation is just a really important part of what we do. 00:41:31
We have. 00:41:35
A really unique opportunity here. 00:41:37
With our roads being so young, we you know the. 00:41:40
Majority of our roadways are. 00:41:43
You know, 10 to 12 years. 00:41:46
Old at the most. 00:41:48
And so. 00:41:50
Not a lot of cities can can say that. If you drive through some of the older cities, you'll. 00:41:51
You'll drive through a lot of potholes. 00:41:56
A lot of. 00:41:58
Roadways that are not in great shape and. 00:41:59
And that's simply because you know, they're old and you know most cities are underfunded with. 00:42:02
You know their their roadway preservation and. 00:42:07
But here in Vineyard, we we do have. 00:42:10
A really, you know, unique opportunity to to maintain our roadways there. 00:42:13
There are possibly our biggest. 00:42:17
Investment that we have in our infrastructure here. 00:42:20
So it you know it, it it. 00:42:23
You know. 00:42:25
It's entirely. 00:42:28
For lack of a better term, we should be spending more money on that than anything else. 00:42:34
As far as our. 00:42:40
Infrastructure goes. 00:42:42
Up above here, why do we? 00:42:44
Preserve our pavements well. 00:42:46
The more. 00:42:50
We treat our. 00:42:52
Payments, the longer they're going to last and you can see some of these. 00:42:54
Numbers may be a little bit outdated and you know this is preservation work should begin 7 to 10. 00:42:57
Years after that's I mean. 00:43:01
Now it's. 00:43:03
They want it to begin. 00:43:04
You know immediately if it's possible. We haven't. 00:43:06
Been able to do that here. 00:43:09
But we, we do try to get on our roadways, you know, between three and five years. 00:43:11
After. 00:43:15
They've been. 00:43:16
Constructed. 00:43:18
You can see preservation costs a dollar. 00:43:20
Rehabilitation $4.00 and I think. 00:43:23
All of that's gone up. 00:43:26
Exponentially. 00:43:27
Today, but this is the. 00:43:30
The slide that we have. 00:43:32
And so you know. 00:43:34
You can see. 00:43:35
Each time you do a preservation treatment, it brings that road back up to. 00:43:36
You know. 00:43:41
Close to where we want it to be. And then over over the years it degrades again and then we do another treatment and it brings it 00:43:41
back up to where we want it to be and that's how we. 00:43:45
Keep that. 00:43:49
That life. 00:43:50
You know, going. 00:43:52
A couple of years back we did a pavement condition assessment. We had horror, horror. 00:43:56
Engineering. 00:44:02
Do that and. 00:44:03
We were able to identify all of the roads in the city and kind of. 00:44:06
Understand where the problem areas are and where we needed to work on. 00:44:11
We try to keep the. 00:44:16
The whole city. 00:44:18
You get that in the next slide, but we try to keep the whole city basically at a. 00:44:19
7 out of 10 level. 00:44:23
For they call it a paser rating or. 00:44:26
PCI rating. It's essentially like a one to 10 rating. 00:44:30
With that pavement condition assessment, we're able to. 00:44:34
You know, attack the roadways that. 00:44:38
We feel need at the most and. 00:44:41
That doesn't always mean. 00:44:43
The roads that look the worst either. 00:44:44
Because sometimes monies are better spent. 00:44:46
Keeping a. 00:44:49
Good Rd. Good. 00:44:50
Than trying to make a bad Rd. 00:44:51
Better. 00:44:53
Then you can see on on this map. This is kind of. 00:44:57
The the green indicates you know where we're good. We actually have quite a bit more green that should be on here. 00:45:00
That we did last year. 00:45:08
In our. 00:45:09
With our payment. 00:45:11
Preservation so. 00:45:13
All of that roadway, all the way. 00:45:15
Loop Rd. Main St. 00:45:17
Let's see here. 00:45:22
We did the gardens. 00:45:23
La chamat. 00:45:26
All of those should be Bridgeport, all those would be green now, so. 00:45:27
Where we want to keep that. 00:45:32
That nice. 00:45:34
So. 00:45:35
This is kind of like a five year plan. We have, you know, our 15 year strategy, but you know, keeping it within this focus of a 00:45:38
five year plan. 00:45:42
This is a map of the. 00:45:47
The roadways that we plan to do in the next 5 years, you can see 2026 we'd like to get. 00:45:50
Vineyard Rd. 00:45:56
As it ties up into 400 N and then up 300 W by. 00:45:57
Lakefront. 00:46:03
So we're already seeing some areas where we've got potholes. If you drive along that road, you'll see where we've made several 00:46:04
repairs along the way. We're going to need to make more. 00:46:09
These are the type of. 00:46:15
Things that. 00:46:16
That started to tell us that a road is kind of getting to a tipping point and really. 00:46:17
When we did loop roll last year, we were starting to see. 00:46:24
A lot of raveling we had to. 00:46:27
Make some asphalt repairs. Cut out, make some repairs. 00:46:29
You know, just a lot of potholing and things of that nature that. 00:46:33
If you let the road decline from there, it really goes downhill fast. 00:46:37
And so that's why, you know, these roads, you know, we want to. 00:46:42
They may not. 00:46:46
You know as you drive over them they may not look like. 00:46:47
You know at that point yet, but. 00:46:49
We're just seeing some characteristics that tell us. 00:46:52
This is the best place to spend our money. 00:46:55
This year. 00:46:57
So. 00:46:59
And then you can see the treatments through the dotted line and the solid line being BMO, which is a bonded matrix. It's a. 00:47:00
Chip seal with with the HA5 top coat. 00:47:09
It's a more robust treatment that. 00:47:13
Treatment we would use for. 00:47:15
Your collectors roads ha five. We would use more in residential subdivisions. 00:47:17
So. 00:47:24
Yeah. So that's kind of our, our five year plan, is it? 00:47:27
Looks there. 00:47:33
Why pavement preservation is kind of a little bit. 00:47:36
Of redundant, but I wanted to talk about, you know, kind of like. 00:47:39
A different strategy or different? 00:47:44
Way to analyze pavement preservation. 00:47:46
If you have a car and you. 00:47:50
You. 00:47:52
You you don't change your oil. 00:47:55
You know, umm. 00:47:56
Often you might save a few dollars by doing that. 00:47:57
Well, asphalt seconded the same way if you don't. 00:48:01
Preserve it. 00:48:04
Overtime. 00:48:05
It'll just go bad on you really fast. 00:48:06
And it cost a lot of money down the road. 00:48:09
It's kind of, you know, the same way with the car if you don't change your oil. 00:48:12
It will. 00:48:15
You know you're going to have engine problems and it's going to be. 00:48:16
Catastrophic cost. 00:48:20
To your pocketbook. 00:48:21
And so we're trying to avoid that and, you know, pavement preservation. 00:48:23
Upfront. 00:48:27
Is much less. 00:48:29
Expense than. 00:48:31
If we wait. 00:48:32
And push it down the road. 00:48:33
So. 00:48:35
And then this is that chart, like I was saying, you can kind of see the. 00:48:39
The curve there where it. 00:48:42
You know, pavement. 00:48:44
Condition goes down, then you do a treatment and it comes back up. 00:48:45
And it goes down again, and then it comes back up. 00:48:49
Those are those are the type of that. 00:48:52
Things that we're looking for when we do. 00:48:54
Preservation. You get that road. 00:48:56
Quality. 00:48:58
Back up into that acceptable range and each time we do it. 00:48:59
You know it's keeping the road nice for. 00:49:03
A longer and longer period. 00:49:06
Costs to build roads and rebuild roads. 00:49:10
Are just skyrocketing, I mean. 00:49:15
It's why it's so important that we really take care of the roads that we have because. 00:49:18
You know, if you look at. 00:49:23
You know it's a million and a half to $2,000,000 per mile to reconstruct a Rd. 00:49:24
So you know. 00:49:29
It's just it's, it's really. 00:49:31
The car. 00:49:34
You know oil change theory if you. 00:49:36
If you do it. 00:49:38
When you should. 00:49:39
You'll get a long life out of it. 00:49:41
And you know if we don't. 00:49:43
These are the kind of costs that we're looking at. 00:49:45
We so last year. 00:49:51
When we did. 00:49:53
Pavement preservation, we kind of learned. 00:49:54
Some of the. 00:49:57
Some of the. 00:49:58
Things that we did wrong. 00:50:01
We've we've kind of worked together to in house to. 00:50:02
To kind of try and fix some of those issues. 00:50:06
We want to make sure we're communicating or we want to have a website. 00:50:10
You know, an interactive map. 00:50:14
So that residents can get online and see what we're doing. 00:50:15
We want to have communication with HOA boards. 00:50:20
And you know, obviously identify solutions for parking. 00:50:23
When we're doing. 00:50:28
Treatments in neighborhoods and other roadways. 00:50:29
We want to make sure we're educating people why we're doing the treatments because a lot of people sometimes. 00:50:34
They're driving by or we'll see comments about. 00:50:39
This road was perfectly fine. Why are we? 00:50:42
Why are we trading this road, you know? 00:50:45
We want to make sure that we're making sure that. 00:50:47
We're we're educating people on what we're doing. 00:50:49
And why we do it? 00:50:52
We also want to have some weekly coordination meetings. 00:50:54
With with staff in. 00:50:57
Make sure that we're keeping everybody. 00:51:00
Council included. 00:51:02
In the loop on. 00:51:04
You know our schedules and. 00:51:05
And things like that and update as we go along because? 00:51:08
Weather and different things. 00:51:11
'Cause changes in schedule so. 00:51:15
We want to make sure that everyone is. 00:51:17
In the loop on that. 00:51:20
And I think that's all I've got is. 00:51:23
Anybody have any questions for me? 00:51:25
I have a couple real quick. 00:51:28
Question. Yeah. So Chris? 00:51:30
Now we we have a contractor that does this for us, right? You guys understand? 00:51:32
And do we have? 00:51:35
I guess in previous years we've had a situations where the. 00:51:39
We didn't really QA the road really well when it was done. 00:51:42
And this is before your time and so forth, but do we have a system in place to make sure that we're inspecting that to make sure 00:51:45
that we're getting the service or we need? Yeah. 00:51:49
Oh yeah, yeah, we're. 00:51:54
I mean, we're. 00:51:56
Right there with them, you know? 00:51:57
Through the whole process, I mean, we're. 00:51:59
We're making sure that we get everything. 00:52:02
Squared away. 00:52:04
For instance, a couple years ago we had a resident that. 00:52:06
Drove through. 00:52:08
You know a roadway after it was just barely treated. 00:52:09
We, I'll introduce Aaron here in a minute, but we, we had Aaron. 00:52:13
Come out and. 00:52:18
You know, they they were able to retreat the whole thing and. 00:52:19
I think, you know, I want to, I do want to highlight, you know, Aaron Eppley with Holbrook asphalt. He's also here to talk about. 00:52:22
Some of the. 00:52:30
Other. 00:52:32
Nuts and bolts to. 00:52:33
Pavement preservation, but. 00:52:35
The city has had a long standing relationship with Holbrook. I think it's been. 00:52:37
10 plus years, maybe 12 years. 00:52:41
That Holbrooke has been here in the in the city. It's the only treatments that's that's been down here. 00:52:44
We've had a really good relationship. They. 00:52:50
Have been excellent to. 00:52:52
Come back and do warranty work. 00:52:54
And we've worked really well with them, so. 00:52:57
We're grateful to have them on board with this. They they provide a really good product. 00:53:00
If anyone wants to look. 00:53:05
In 2022. 00:53:06
We had a. 00:53:09
When we took over the roadways for. 00:53:11
The business park up on 1600 N area. 00:53:14
On 1600 N 400 E and. 00:53:17
A little bit of 1750 we put. 00:53:20
Yeah, well, they put down. 00:53:22
Road treatment up there. 00:53:26
At the that same year, we put down a road treatment on 170 S. 00:53:28
If you're ever interested in driving up there, go drive through those roadways and. 00:53:32
And look at the treatment that. 00:53:36
Well, that is no longer there. 00:53:38
And then go drive on 170 S and you'll see the difference in. 00:53:40
In those two products, so. 00:53:44
Yeah. Any other questions? 00:53:47
I just want to say I love your suggestion about making a website and. 00:53:50
And, you know, using it to inform residents on what is actually happening, why it's happening, that can be really helpful. Yep, 00:53:53
Yep. There's something we should pursue. So. 00:53:56
Yeah. Thank you for that suggestion. Yeah. 00:54:00
Appreciate it. 00:54:02
With that said. 00:54:04
I want to introduce Aaron Eppley from Holbrook Asphalt. He's going to come up and and give a little presentation here. Awesome. 00:54:06
Thank you. 00:54:09
Let me see if I can switch that over. 00:54:14
While he's switching that over. 00:54:21
Are there? 00:54:22
Are there private roads on this pavement condition map too? 00:54:24
Looks like there's. 00:54:27
Potentially some. 00:54:29
They're shown on there, but they're not. 00:54:32
Thank you, Chris. 00:54:39
You bet. 00:54:40
Hey I want to hijack this for a minute. 00:54:41
On a personal note, I don't know if this is the appropriate place or not. 00:54:43
I've been working, like Chris said, I've been working with the city here for I think it's over 13 years now. 00:54:48
And one of the gentlemen. 00:54:54
That I first started working with. 00:54:55
He's no longer with us. 00:54:57
I just want to know, have you guys done anything to honor him? 00:54:59
In Ursin Dawn. 00:55:03
Yeah, we don't. 00:55:05
Don Oliverson, he was a fantastic man. 00:55:06
I didn't always see eye to eye with him. He beat me up on a few things but I just. I just thought he was fantastic and I feel like 00:55:09
he had a huge. 00:55:13
Part in your guys's development and growth. 00:55:17
And I was just thinking to myself, I was sitting down over there and I was like, man, if you guys ever. 00:55:20
In your growth if you ever have a park or a golf tournament. 00:55:24
Call it the Don Overson Memorial, because the guy deserves it. 00:55:27
Yeah, it was awesome. I really liked. We named our water tank after. I did not know that. 00:55:31
So I don't know, that's just kind of a personal note. I really like working with him and like I say, him and I didn't always see 00:55:38
eye to eye and he held my feet to the fire on more than one occasion. 00:55:42
But I thought he was. He did a really good job for you guys. 00:55:45
So like Chris talked to me about, I'm going to take you down a road to show you something. 00:55:50
You guys are not in this boat yet. 00:55:55
But I do. I teach classes all over the country on essentials of lowering the cost of managing roads. 00:55:58
The roads are your most expensive asset that you have. 00:56:04
Every city. 00:56:07
Agencies challenge can become political and media focused and that's horrible. When that happens, it's absolutely horrible. 00:56:10
I work with the city. 00:56:16
In Southern. 00:56:18
Arizona called Tucson. 00:56:19
And about 25. 00:56:21
Years ago, their staff and their City Council decided that they did not believe in pavement preservation. 00:56:22
And it went on for several years. I started working with them. 00:56:29
About 1213 years ago and I've been through. 00:56:32
Oh, I don't know, five to seven different Staffs. 00:56:35
Because they were just trying to figure stuff out. 00:56:38
And it got so bad that. 00:56:40
Whenever the city would do something, so they do a festival. 00:56:42
And it would get published in the paper. Hey, they could have fixed 11,000 potholes. Or if they funded support for a local theater 00:56:45
they could have fixed 148. 00:56:48
1000 potholes and you know, so it got really bad and political, it got so bad. 00:56:52
That they changed the church to Save Our Streets Christian Church. That's what the title of the church was. 00:56:58
They're doing better now. 00:57:03
But what I'm saying is they neglected their roads. 00:57:06
20 years ago. 00:57:08
And they're playing catch up now. 00:57:10
You guys are in such a lucky place right now to where your infrastructure is young, you have the ability to manage those roads for 00:57:12
a long period of time and the roads are going to wear out. 00:57:16
They are, but do they wear out in 20 years, 25 years? 00:57:21
35 years, 45 years, it costs whatever it costs to build it. 00:57:24
But to 20 year old? 00:57:28
That's not a very good. 00:57:30
ROI. 00:57:31
If it's a 40 year old road, that's a really good ROI. 00:57:32
And that's where I see your roads going. 00:57:35
If you guys continue to do this, I work with about 50 to 65 cities a year depending on the year. 00:57:37
Every single one of them. 00:57:43
Everyone of them is underfunded when it comes to their Rd. network. 00:57:44
And it's hard to understand that because that is. 00:57:48
Your most expensive asset that you guys have to take care of in your cities so. 00:57:51
I just kind of wanted to go through this a little bit. 00:57:56
So the city went, Tucson city went and they they hired an engineering firm to come in and assess the roads and the assessment come 00:57:58
back and said 55% of your residential streets were rated failed or poor condition. 00:58:03
25% of their streets were rated in fell or poor condition and this is just because of a philosophy that was. 00:58:09
Preservation doesn't work. 00:58:15
When we know it does. 00:58:17
What does that? 00:58:19
Translate to. 00:58:20
$875 million problem. 00:58:21
550 to repair the. 00:58:24
Residentials. 00:58:26
148 to do the arterials and 175 just to keep the good roads good. 00:58:27
OK, So what did they do? The city decided, look, we're going to have to go take a bond. We don't have that kind of money. 00:58:32
So they did $100 million bond. 00:58:38
And the City Council threw in another $20 million, and they did this over five years. 00:58:40
And they've done this twice since I've been working with. 00:58:46
They're making some headway. 00:58:49
But it is painful. 00:58:50
And I don't ever want to see you guys get to that. You want to you want to stretch the. 00:58:52
Quality use of those roads for long period of time and you want to lower your ownership cost during that time. So you want to keep 00:58:56
them healthy and the right ability good. And that's what we've really been effective. You guys have done an exceptionally good job 00:59:00
and I think it started with Dawn. 00:59:05
Went to Chris. 00:59:10
And now Kristen? 00:59:12
Nassim are doing a good job. 00:59:13
I really I feel that way. 00:59:14
With the 55 or cities I work with, I think they're in the top 5% of all the cities I work. 00:59:16
So there's some basics on preservation. I want to just kind of take you through this real quick. So asphalt is really a basic, 00:59:22
it's really simple. It's aggregate or the rock. 00:59:25
And it's the binder, the glue that holds it together. 00:59:29
Now those gold bars are there because the glue is what's important. 00:59:32
That's the important part of the asphalt. 00:59:35
So the key to preserving and extending your? 00:59:37
Life of your pavement and lowering your ownership cost is preserving. 00:59:40
And stopping. 00:59:44
The oxidation. 00:59:46
Oxidation is what kills your roads. 00:59:47
You get the raveling, you get the cracking. The roads turn Gray. 00:59:49
And it gets to a certain point to where it cracks, and then you get the moisture infiltration down in the base and you start 00:59:52
getting massive potholes and the costs just go up exponentially. We want to avoid that altogether. 00:59:57
There's two primary accelerators to oxidative aging. 01:00:03
And you guys have any idea what those are? 01:00:07
Boom, bingo. 01:00:13
UV rays. 01:00:15
It's actually called photo oxidation and moisture. 01:00:16
So here in Utah, northern Utah especially, you get the double whammy. Maybe not this year. 01:00:18
How much snow did you guys get this year? 01:00:23
Not very much. 01:00:25
How much it all? 01:00:26
So. But here you get the high elevation, so you get the high. 01:00:27
Intense UV rays and then they get the moisture. Most winter sits on the pavement and then gets pushed down in the pavement. 01:00:30
So if we can. 01:00:36
If we can take those two things and limit its effect on the pavement. 01:00:37
You're gonna. 01:00:40
Increase your quality of use for a longer period of time and increase your. 01:00:42
Length of time that you have it in use. 01:00:46
And so here's something that we always look at, everybody always sees something. This is the life cycle of pavement starts out on 01:00:48
the left. 01:00:51
And the vertical is the pavement condition. It's always nice and green. 01:00:55
Goes along and then it starts to fall off and it gets down to the bottom there, typically the National Center pavement. 01:00:58
Preservation says that's about 20 to 25 years. 01:01:03
But what people don't see is they don't see the Condell curve. Doctor Condell did a lot of research and he found out. 01:01:07
I understand my pavement ages at a certain rate. 01:01:13
And that what is the most. 01:01:15
Telling thing that happens to the pavement. 01:01:17
What's the most telling thing that can tell me how healthy that pavement is? And it's the flexibility, because the pavement is 01:01:20
flexible. 01:01:23
And their oils and resins in it. And you see how right away. 01:01:26
You lose a lot of that flexibility right away, so the key to your pavement preservation is to get involved early. 01:01:30
If you can, get involved early. 01:01:36
You have a less. 01:01:38
Less costly. 01:01:39
Treatments. 01:01:40
And you'd be diligent. 01:01:41
It'll extend the pavement. You flatten out that Condell curve, which in turn is going to flatten out the. 01:01:43
You know the surface view of it. 01:01:48
There are things you can do when you get down the you know it's. 01:01:50
Those black lines there? 01:01:53
It's kind of. They call it the waterfall effect, once the pavement. 01:01:56
Sorry, once the pavement starts going it goes fast and it's hard to catch. 01:01:59
So those things are. 01:02:03
That you do on those pavements are typically more expensive. 01:02:04
And shorter lifespans. 01:02:07
So the key is to get involved early. 01:02:08
It's hard. Sometimes I go out with city managers. 01:02:11
I look at roads and they got a subdivision over here that's 20 years old and the payments in rough shape and I got a subdivision 01:02:14
over here in the pavements. 01:02:17
Three years old. 01:02:20
And I always say. 01:02:22
Spend your money first on the three-year old pavement. 01:02:24
Because this pavement is 25 years old, it's going to be what it's going to be. It's going to cost you what it's going to cost you. 01:02:26
But if you neglect this new pavement and you allow it to deteriorate. 01:02:32
It's going to cost you more. I put pavement in three categories. 01:02:37
First category is maintenance. 01:02:39
When it falls out of maintenance, falls into rehabilitation. Your dollars go up exponentially when it falls out of maintenance 01:02:41
into rehabilitation. 01:02:44
When it falls out of rehabilitation, it goes into reconstruction again. Your dollars expended. 01:02:48
Goes up exponentially. 01:02:53
So the longer you can keep it in a maintenance. 01:02:55
Category the. 01:02:57
Better the roads gonna. 01:02:58
The use case is going to be better and the. 01:03:00
The less you're going to pay for it. 01:03:02
And there's some research out of tow. 01:03:05
Every dollar keeping a good real good precludes spending 6 to 14 to rebuild 1 so you know one will save you 14. That's a pretty. 01:03:09
Substantial difference in cost just to keep your roads in a maintenance category. 01:03:16
And here's some other numbers. We did this for a subdivision that was just north of. 01:03:22
Tucson in a town called Marana. I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with Arizona, but there's. 01:03:27
Town. 01:03:31
Called Marana just north of there and they we were working with them and they were like, hey. 01:03:32
We have this. 01:03:36
2530 year old subdivision. 01:03:37
We need to know as a city because we've got to repave the roads. 01:03:39
We want to know what is this? 01:03:42
Pavement going to cost us over the next 30 years. What is it? What's our ownership cost of it? 01:03:43
And so we went to the National Center of Pavement Preservation, we grabbed their data and we looked at it and we kind of said, 01:03:48
well, guys, it kind of depends when you get involved. If you get involved when your PCI is a 100 to a 96, you're going to budget 01:03:53
every year about 10 grand. 01:03:58
You're not spending that every year, but that's what you're going to budget. 01:04:03
And you notice. 01:04:06
Every year that you wait, those dollars go up. If you wait till the pavements, you're 7 years old. Now you have to budget 25 grand 01:04:07
a year. 01:04:10
And you notice. 01:04:13
It just the more you go, the more you have to budget per year to keep that pavement in good shape. 01:04:14
And so. 01:04:18
With this particular subdivision, they pay the city finished paving it on a Friday and we were in there doing a preservation 01:04:19
treatment on a Tuesday after it. 01:04:23
And it's fantastic. It's been 7 years since we've done this. 01:04:28
And it has like 2 cracks in it from and there are from a manhole to a curb. So it's a utility crack. It's not really a the 01:04:32
pavement's still in really good shape. 01:04:36
So there are a lot of tools available to you. 01:04:42
And you need to make sure you match those tools that are available to you to the appropriate Rd. use case. 01:04:44
And condition. 01:04:51
So if you have a pavement that's in really rough condition and you have to do a preservation treatment, maybe you're going to 01:04:53
choose like a slurry or a microsurface or a chipped seal. 01:04:57
Or a combination of those. 01:05:01
If you have a pavement like you say, it's a lot of your subdivisions are really in good condition, you're going to choose a high 01:05:03
density mineral bond that's the best return on your investment. 01:05:07
It's a lower cost because it has a good strong life cycle. 01:05:12
And it protects the pavement really good because it's impermeable to moisture. 01:05:16
Oxygen. 01:05:20
And UV rays, it keeps those bad things out and keeps the good things in, keeps the oil in so that Condell curve can be flattened 01:05:21
out. 01:05:25
So I don't mean to scare you guys. You guys are in really good place. 01:05:30
Your inventory is in a good place and I'm proud to have been here for as long as I have. I've been working with, I started working 01:05:34
with Don, I think it's 13 or 14 years ago, then I started working with him. 01:05:39
And I've done a lot of good projects. 01:05:44
And. 01:05:47
I think you guys are growing way too fast. 01:05:48
I just. 01:05:52
It's hard to keep up, man. You guys are you're growing like crazy and I understand you got that. What is it called? Utah City? 01:05:53
That's going in. 01:05:58
I would recommend that you. 01:06:01
Vineyard downtown. 01:06:02
But go ahead, downtown I would. So there's a couple things that I would recommend. I know Naseem told me not to say this because 01:06:03
it might be a cuss word to you guys, but I see a lot of cities being successful. 01:06:08
With their preservation dollars that they get. 01:06:12
With two things. One. 01:06:15
They require the developers to do a preservation treatment before you guys take ownership over because the developer, he'll do it. 01:06:16
And he'll want to do the cheapest possible thing and then say hey. 01:06:23
Here you go. 01:06:25
On this for the next 7580 years and you have to pay for. 01:06:26
You know when it goes bad? 01:06:30
But if they do that first preservation, that'll give you guys a little bit of a leg up. It's still not going to cover everything, 01:06:31
so. 01:06:34
Have the developer do the first preservation treatment. I have a lot of cities that are doing that. 01:06:37
Take that money into escrow. 01:06:41
Do it with your own personal or with your municipal projects that you do. I think that's been a very successful model that a lot 01:06:42
of the cities that I work with use. And then the other one is the. 01:06:47
I don't know if I was told not to say this, but the the usage fee. 01:06:53
You have a usage fee for your sewer. 01:06:57
You have a usage fee for your water lines. 01:06:59
I think you should have usage fee for your Rd. 01:07:01
I think it's an exceptionally good tool. 01:07:03
Sometimes it's politically difficult. 01:07:06
But. 01:07:07
Every city that I work with is underfunded. 01:07:10
And every funding mechanism that you guys can use. 01:07:12
Do it and you guys have a unique situation to where you're at right now that you guys can take these 2530 year roads if you don't 01:07:15
do anything with them and you can make them 4050 year old. 01:07:20
So your dollars that you spend for those over that 50 years? 01:07:25
A better return on investment. 01:07:28
Than the shorter lived roads. 01:07:30
So I was talking to the mayor earlier if you guys ever want to have a class, I teach a class all the time for APWA roads and 01:07:32
streets, a lot of municipalities. 01:07:36
I'd be happy to come in. 01:07:41
You guys can. 01:07:42
Inundate me. 01:07:43
Throw darts at me, whatever you want to do. I'd happy to talk to you about preservation, but I do think you guys have a unique 01:07:44
opportunity to make your roads last a lot longer. 01:07:48
Good quality use, lower ownership costs. 01:07:53
That's what I've got. 01:07:56
Any questions? 01:07:57
Thank you so much for that presentation, Council, Any questions? 01:07:59
I have a question about trail maintenance. Are there any benefits to kind of combining? 01:08:02
Trail and road maintenance, do we do this similar treatments on absolutely trail maintenance, typically the high density mineral 01:08:08
bond is going to be your best tool. 01:08:11
In my experience. 01:08:16
Parks and trails. 01:08:19
A much smaller budget. 01:08:21
So it's harder for them to get a treatment put down. 01:08:23
So I would highly recommend that you piggyback those with your roadway projects. Try to do them at the same time. 01:08:27
You'll get a better. 01:08:33
Bang for your buck, so to speak. 01:08:35
I've done a lot of trails here in the city. 01:08:38
Umm. 01:08:40
That would be my best case as far as pavement goes. Pavement is going to deteriorate how payments going to deteriorate. The thing 01:08:43
about the trails too is you have the irrigation a lot of times that. 01:08:47
Over sprays on it that is really hard on. 01:08:51
Whatever preservation treatment you choose. And then again, it's hard on the pavement. 01:08:54
So try to dial those in, keep it off the pavement. I know it's hard and you know. 01:08:59
You're watering those trails and sometimes you don't care that sprinkler heads got to go where it's got to go, and you do what you 01:09:02
got to do. But yeah, preservation is just as key on those trails. 01:09:06
I think for all your trails the high density mineral bond would be. 01:09:12
Best tool to? 01:09:15
You could possibly do on. 01:09:16
OK. Thank you. 01:09:19
Anything else? Any other questions? 01:09:20
Awesome hearing none thank you so much. That was a great super informative and we'll. 01:09:23
Might take you up on that offer. 01:09:28
Get you in here, but get some more information if we Yeah, happy to do us so. 01:09:29
Thank you so much for coming. 01:09:33
Thank you. 01:09:34
OK, we are going to jump now to. 01:09:36
Do we have another staff reports to go over? 01:09:39
OK, all right, let's jump to item 5.2 discussion of the resolution. 01:09:41
So for city manager responsibilities and duties. 01:09:47
So for the public, we have the City Council we've decided have decided to hire a full time city manager. 01:09:50
An offer has been extended working through the final. 01:09:57
Just the final steps there. 01:09:59
And. 01:10:02
The thought of how to delineate currently how the code is written the. 01:10:06
The duties and responsibilities of the city manager to lay to. 01:10:12
Riverside didn't mean the mayor's office, and we're going to delegate that out to the city manager. 01:10:15
And so. 01:10:19
The thoughts that I've had and I want to just have a good discussion with Council. 01:10:20
Over this is retaining myself. 01:10:24
Handling and me and my office would be David Kyle as well. 01:10:28
Or just the mayor's office. It would be handling communications events, specifically Vineyard days. 01:10:31
9/11 all that, all the events that we have going on and also lobbying efforts. 01:10:38
Working with you guys strategically, what do we need to lobby for what, what do we need to get after? So and then delegating the 01:10:42
rest of the management or day-to-day operations of the city to the city manager. 01:10:47
That is kind of my thought, so I just like to open up the discussion for Council. 01:10:53
Love to get your guys thoughts on it and. 01:10:57
Hopefully get to something you all feel good about we can vote on. 01:10:59
Next upcoming meeting. 01:11:02
So any comments from Council? 01:11:04
Sure. Yep. Dave, you want to start my left? Go ahead, Parker. 01:11:08
My thought on this is that. 01:11:11
The city manager position. 01:11:14
Falls underneath the executive branch of government here, and that is strictly a. 01:11:17
Mayor's responsibility. 01:11:22
So my thought is that. 01:11:25
As a legislative body, I would like. 01:11:29
Us to have. 01:11:31
A separate role. 01:11:33
Then dictate how you run the day-to-day operations in the city. 01:11:35
It's not our place to interject that so. 01:11:38
Go for it. 01:11:42
Thank you, Parker. 01:11:45
Any other? Any other comments Council? 01:11:46
I was looking at the org chart that. 01:11:49
Yeah, I noticed that you've. 01:11:52
Code enforcement. 01:11:55
And so forth. Still under. 01:11:56
You're the mayor's office. 01:11:58
As opposed to under the city managers office is that? 01:12:00
Is there any thoughts on that or no? No specific no. 01:12:04
What were the thoughts on there? It's a public facing office. 01:12:07
And Dill's. 01:12:11
With the public on. 01:12:12
Daily basis. 01:12:13
And we wanted to make sure that. 01:12:15
That. 01:12:17
That the. 01:12:18
Code enforcement was done with kid gloves. 01:12:19
And that we were having the. 01:12:22
Putting the best space forward. 01:12:25
So it's we just want to. 01:12:27
Closely monitor and. 01:12:29
And basically execute. 01:12:30
That program. 01:12:33
Are you at all concerned about? 01:12:38
I mean, obviously code enforcement is going to have some pretty unpopular. 01:12:41
Decisions that need to be made. That is exactly the reason why we're doing it, actually. 01:12:45
And the reason is. 01:12:50
To be able to. 01:12:53
Basically, measure, engage public opinion. 01:12:55
And the results. 01:12:58
And be able to. 01:13:00
Basically turn or dial it down as needed. 01:13:02
So. 01:13:06
Any other comments from council on this? 01:13:11
I think we should. 01:13:16
Take some time and recognize the mayor like I did a couple weeks ago, and David Kyle and the transition, the whole city's gone in 01:13:17
and it's been such a positive. 01:13:21
120 days in terms of. 01:13:25
Reorganizing and. 01:13:27
I think we need to spend some time recognizing that, but I. 01:13:29
I reviewed everything and I. 01:13:33
I think it looks great. 01:13:34
I did have questions about the code enforcement like was there a desire that you guys really want to keep that but? 01:13:38
You know they're accountable to you, which is great. You know it's one person. It makes a little bit. 01:13:44
Nimbler, right? It's like. 01:13:48
One person. 01:13:50
So I can see the advantages of that two people on the org chart. 01:13:52
Yeah, yeah. So there's Ed and then there's a part and then we have one part time. We're budgeting for it right now. 01:13:56
And then events came. 01:14:04
So we are having the only thing I have a question about is the lobbying. 01:14:06
Efforts is like. 01:14:10
I like you're very skilled, so I can see that is. 01:14:12
But like, do you envision that as like a? 01:14:16
October, November, December. Discussions of what word lobbying for. 01:14:19
So we're together. 01:14:23
On I mean, I'm sure we are, we're always talking, but like how does that work, you know, So lobbying is a usually year round. 01:14:25
Usually it starts right after the session. 01:14:33
Right, so true. 01:14:36
If you want to lose. 01:14:39
And you don't want to. 01:14:41
Be successful. You wait. Yeah, Yeah, so. 01:14:42
Not only is it year round, but. 01:14:46
Where we've identified the mayor. 01:14:48
And myself have identified. 01:14:51
Very large goals. 01:14:54
For our lobbying efforts, the. 01:14:55
Chief among them is working on. 01:14:59
The RDA. 01:15:02
And uh. 01:15:03
The and the railroad spurs. 01:15:04
Funding. 01:15:08
OK, the railroad. 01:15:09
Alone is $150 million. Ask. 01:15:11
So OK. 01:15:15
Yeah, so. 01:15:18
Parker mentioned you mentioned that the the city manager and the. 01:15:21
Ministry of Officer those. 01:15:26
Those are two. 01:15:27
Executive things under. 01:15:29
Been under the mayor and so. 01:15:31
And so you're saying you wouldn't think that the city manager would be? 01:15:33
Responsible to the councillor. 01:15:36
Could you follow up with your? 01:15:38
With your comment there. 01:15:40
No. And I think with our our. 01:15:42
City code the way we had previously done revisions. 01:15:45
It's, I believe, evident. 01:15:47
That the city employees. 01:15:50
Are still beheld to the legislative authority of the Council and if we need information or we direct something. 01:15:53
That that's upheld regardless. 01:15:59
My comments is more on the separation of the positions and recognizing that the mayors function is primarily to operate the city. 01:16:02
The organization. 01:16:12
And so I am inclined to give him. 01:16:14
The leeway. 01:16:17
To operate the entity of the city organization. 01:16:18
While we maintain our lane as legislators. 01:16:22
So you would you would say the city manager should exist under the mayor's office as well? 01:16:26
Correct. 01:16:30
This. That's not to say that it is. 01:16:33
Sorry. 01:16:35
My previous comments, OK, because I saw the confusion. Look, yeah. 01:16:36
With the existing city code. 01:16:41
The city manager. 01:16:44
If one is hired. 01:16:46
Is still beheld into the City Council. 01:16:48
But he's not day-to-day supervised by us. 01:16:51
Nor are we dictating how the day-to-day operation of the city is. 01:16:55
Correct. 01:16:59
So my. 01:17:00
Comment is largely saying. 01:17:02
I want to enable the mayor. 01:17:04
To run the city. 01:17:06
And I think that. 01:17:08
When we look at this resolution and we look at the like org chart here. 01:17:09
That's the mayor's vision. 01:17:13
And I'm totally cool with being out of the way for the daily operations. 01:17:14
Obviously, the city manager still answers to. 01:17:19
The council, per the city code. 01:17:21
When we have a direction or we have a request. 01:17:24
I don't think that's changed at all, or I'm not advocating to change that. 01:17:27
I think. 01:17:35
Let me see if I understand you right here so. 01:17:40
The way I see this org chart is. 01:17:43
We basically got kind of the. 01:17:46
Functional administration of the city under the city manager so. 01:17:48
All of the. 01:17:52
For lack of better word. All the boring stuff, all the routine, all the things we need to keep our roads maintained. We need to. 01:17:54
Approved permits we need to can I read that off just for the people that can't see the org chart right now so the way that. 01:18:01
And I don't know, Tony, if it could be pulled up maybe, but the city manager would be over the building department, the city 01:18:09
recorder, the finance. 01:18:13
The human resources, the public works. 01:18:17
The community enrichment and the RDA director. 01:18:19
So those would be the departments underneath the. 01:18:22
City Manager with this proposed org chart. 01:18:25
And then like Councilman Nair was just saying. 01:18:27
There's the separation for the administrative officer that would be under. 01:18:31
David Kyle Herring over there. 01:18:37
And that is the code enforcement, the events contracting the media and the. 01:18:39
Communities that care. 01:18:45
And grant writing. 01:18:47
And there's also lobbying and boards and commissions on that side. So those are the things that I think. 01:18:48
Again by the structured. 01:18:54
In this org chart right now. 01:18:56
It's roles that all fall underneath the mayor and the organization. 01:18:59
Operations. 01:19:05
It's just. 01:19:06
The mayor has. 01:19:07
Shifted, you know, half of those roles are falling under this person. Half of those roles are falling under this person. 01:19:08
Yeah, so, so my thoughts here and. 01:19:15
Let me know if this helps. 01:19:18
With with our form of government. So rather than. 01:19:19
Having a. 01:19:23
Form of government that's actually like a specific mayor, council, form of government. 01:19:24
We have the six member council form of government where I think there's a little bit of nuance where. 01:19:28
Where we don't. 01:19:34
Fully just. 01:19:34
Solely do the legislative work, but we also have a responsibility to. 01:19:36
Appoint the city manager. 01:19:39
And have the city manager. 01:19:41
Report to all of us and kind of balance the. 01:19:43
Basically, the needs of the Council as a whole. 01:19:46
Where? 01:19:49
Kind of the functions that I see currently that are that are under David Kyle and I would actually recommend. 01:19:50
For for clarity sake and working with other organizations that we change that to. 01:19:56
A deputy mayor. 01:20:01
Yeah. 01:20:02
We have like code enforcement events, things that can really kind of pivot. 01:20:04
Pretty substantially, depending on how the mayor. 01:20:08
Wants to take the vision of the city. 01:20:11
With things like. 01:20:13
Public works engineering. 01:20:14
Building like. 01:20:16
A lot of that is governed by the state code and we have a lot of responsibilities that. 01:20:17
That day-to-day we just need to carry out. 01:20:21
That we we definitely have a huge impact on. 01:20:24
And set a. 01:20:28
Pretty substantial tone for for what gets built and when. 01:20:29
But as far as like all the functions that I'm seeing under. 01:20:34
David Kyle right now. 01:20:37
Those could. 01:20:38
Very easily turn on a dime. 01:20:40
And. 01:20:42
It would all just depend on kind of the mayor, like how the mayor wants to. 01:20:44
To operate. 01:20:47
And I think that's a good thing to have some of that flexibility. 01:20:48
And the ability to pivot on a lot of those. 01:20:51
Kind of forward facing operations when we're talking about the events when we're talking about. 01:20:54
You know we could. 01:20:59
In theory, does not have been your days, and that could just be a decision of. 01:21:00
Of the mayor, and I don't think that's. 01:21:03
The end of the world. 01:21:05
We're not going to be. 01:21:07
Be held into any state code? We're not going to be. 01:21:08
Found out of compliance with any. 01:21:12
Functional responsibility with the city. 01:21:13
Versus the city manager, which has. 01:21:16
Here are these. 01:21:18
Operations we need to. 01:21:19
Have our audit turned in? Every year we need to have our permits approved. We need to. 01:21:20
Follow and respond to grammar requests. 01:21:24
All of these kind of basic functions of the city. 01:21:26
I think having that distinction there. 01:21:29
Could make it. 01:21:31
Pretty clear of. 01:21:32
Our role in. 01:21:33
A smaller portion of the day-to-day administration of the city. 01:21:35
A lot of those responsibilities are dedicated. 01:21:38
Delegated through the city manager. 01:21:40
But then kind of a separate. 01:21:42
Here is basically the face of the city. Here the. 01:21:44
Here's the mayor's office and all the great things that the mayor's office would do. 01:21:47
I have one thought about the. 01:21:53
Which are right now you've got the planet. 01:21:55
Boards and commissions. 01:22:00
Totally under the. 01:22:01
That the administrative officer side. 01:22:02
And I'm thinking that the Planning Commission, for one ought to be associated with the people, with the planners and so forth, 01:22:05
which right now under the building official. 01:22:09
And maybe that. 01:22:14
That might be better shifted over there. 01:22:16
But other than that, I. 01:22:19
I mean, I think you said that's a nuance that I think we can. 01:22:20
Deal with but. 01:22:24
Were you guys thinking more internal or external boards in that? 01:22:25
I kind of read that as the more. 01:22:28
Like the board said, yeah. 01:22:30
The city would sit on the mayor's gonna kind of delegate. 01:22:32
I thought this was like library. 01:22:35
Garden Art. 01:22:37
That's what I thought with the boards was I thought planning would still be. 01:22:39
But what are you thinking? Yes, not right now. What about garden being? 01:22:43
If you go into the building and planning department there we have. 01:22:47
There's the Active Transportation Commission and the Developer Review. 01:22:50
Committee or board when it was. 01:22:54
And so those those. 01:22:55
And it seems to me that Planning Commission would be along with the same function with the DRC. 01:22:57
At least that they should be probably together. 01:23:01
So maybe we could kind of list out boards? 01:23:05
Because the Planning Commission. 01:23:08
I guess any, yeah, there there's some boards that kind of fit in as a responsibility of. 01:23:10
I'm a city staff. The Planning Commission is is more is dedicated. 01:23:15
Defined more in state law than other boards are, and so it seems to me that would be a better fit under the. 01:23:20
Under the manager site. 01:23:25
So maybe we just spell those out in the org chart? Which ones? 01:23:27
Because like, yeah, I think the. 01:23:30
The community garden like that's. 01:23:32
That's a city initiative. It's kind of a. 01:23:35
It's not something we're required by statute to do by any means. 01:23:37
Maybe we could just list out which ones go under which? 01:23:40
I would agree with the deputy mayor. 01:23:44
Because. 01:23:46
A deputy mayor is working. 01:23:46
In place. 01:23:48
You know the Provo deputy mayor is working when Cafusi wasn't there and it's. 01:23:50
It shows people what? 01:23:54
Under what authority the. 01:23:56
Executive. 01:23:58
Would be like, well wait a second. 01:23:59
Who is the? 01:24:01
Which one is it? 01:24:02
I think changing that. 01:24:03
Title is smart. 01:24:05
Yeah, Audrey. 01:24:07
I like the boldness of. 01:24:11
At first I didn't really. I was like code enforcement. I didn't like it at first. I was like, wait. 01:24:13
But then actually hearing David Kyle go through of like, it makes it very limble. 01:24:17
And very responsive. 01:24:21
And not community and. 01:24:23
The mayor is responsible. 01:24:27
So I like that actually. 01:24:28
Yeah, I go along with leaving that there as long as you do the Planning Commission over to the other side. 01:24:29
Yeah. I just think the Planning Commission probably should be with the planning department. 01:24:34
Yeah, I agree with that. 01:24:39
And then, yeah, we've already got active transportation and DRC under there, so. 01:24:40
Just additional clarity. They were just. 01:24:45
They all fit together like the. 01:24:47
Youth councils under the recorder right now. 01:24:49
So. 01:24:52
Just kind of clarifying that. 01:24:52
Tree Committee. 01:24:54
Another one under. 01:24:55
Public works, so. 01:24:56
OK. 01:24:58
And actually arches. 01:25:00
Arch Library. Community Gardener. All under. 01:25:02
The staff rolls too, so yeah, let's just. 01:25:04
Clarify what we mean by that. 01:25:06
And I like that I was. 01:25:08
I was thinking the committees when I read that. 01:25:10
It was like. 01:25:13
Mag Lake Authority, that's what I that was my tube. 01:25:14
Are you wanting to do the in like the city ones too? Like both? 01:25:19
Youth Council and. 01:25:24
Tree and garden and were they right now, where do they fall? DK They're all in departments. Yeah, just kind of. I was also 01:25:26
thinking, and I haven't discussed this with you, but yeah, you may want to. 01:25:31
We may want to discuss some code. 01:25:37
And because. 01:25:39
I think. 01:25:41
You should have some representation. 01:25:42
Or you. 01:25:45
Attend, you know, have a spot on these boards as the chair of the boards. 01:25:46
Yeah, the internal ones, yeah. And then when you're not there, you could appoint a city staff member to serve at your. 01:25:52
You know, for you in your place. 01:25:58
But that would give you the opportunity in case you wanted to direct, let's say, the Planning Commission. 01:26:01
Or any other Commission that we have, you could step in and you could set the agenda. 01:26:06
Makes sense? That sounds smart through statute. 01:26:14
And that way. 01:26:16
The council then, through the mayor, would have a representative on all the commissions. 01:26:17
And would be able to set the direction. 01:26:23
Yeah, well, the mayor would have that place anyway as chief executive over both both sides. Yeah, but. 01:26:24
The mayor doesn't necessarily have a. 01:26:30
Seated that he's not. 01:26:33
A member of the board. 01:26:35
Of the boards. 01:26:36
Like that we maybe have one of them that he is. 01:26:38
I think that's the. 01:26:42
What is it? 01:26:43
DRC. DRC. Yeah. 01:26:45
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I've always thought. 01:26:49
That the board should be representative of the Council. I thrown that out just because. 01:26:52
When you run for re-election and you're like, what is your vision for X? 01:26:58
Well, in a, in a, in a perfect like. 01:27:04
As we. 01:27:06
As we continue to adjust. 01:27:06
Right, the mayor should be appointing. 01:27:09
Members of the commissions with the City Council's. 01:27:13
Consent. 01:27:19
Like I say, it would be. 01:27:21
For the mayor to actually serve on these. 01:27:23
Boards would be a good thing and then. 01:27:25
When he's not able to be there, he can appoint someone staff member to be there in his stead. 01:27:28
Any other comments, counsel? 01:27:38
Jacob Wood, do you have anything? 01:27:42
No, I think there's a lot of good suggestions. I agree with the title of deputy mayor. I think that would make more sense. Code 01:27:44
enforcement. 01:27:47
I feel a little better about that. I do. 01:27:50
I think that as long as we just make it clear, we don't want staff to be confused on who they're supposed to report to. So as long 01:27:53
as we make it clear that, you know, code enforcement in the future, code enforcement person answers to. 01:27:59
David Kyle and. 01:28:04
So I think it's fine. 01:28:07
As were you going to say something? 01:28:11
Yeah, just the renaming. 01:28:12
So we've got this community enrichment. 01:28:14
Department instead of Parks and Rec. 01:28:16
So yes, that's, I'm sure there's a question, there's a great, there's a great response to that so. 01:28:19
We've enlarged. 01:28:26
Brian's responsibilities he's now. 01:28:28
Not he doesn't just manage Parks and Rec, he now manages the library. 01:28:32
And typically what we've in the research we've done. 01:28:37
They're actually the position title is leisure. 01:28:42
Leisure Services. 01:28:47
And I didn't. 01:28:49
Initially like the idea of calling him the leisure services director because it just says free time translated. 01:28:51
So I I went. 01:29:01
In discussion with HR. 01:29:03
We came up with this new. 01:29:06
Name of. 01:29:08
Community enrichment because we think. 01:29:10
That's. 01:29:13
What Brian's department does. 01:29:14
Like that, it is community enrichment. 01:29:16
I could by the very definition of the words. 01:29:19
So then I brought Brian into the office and I said, Brian, what do you think? And at first he hated it. 01:29:22
And then he. 01:29:28
Took a second and he went and on his own he just looked up the definition of the two different words and thought about it. And 10 01:29:29
minutes later he's telling me he loves it and we're ready to roll with it. So. 01:29:35
We've got buy in. 01:29:42
And I think it's a. 01:29:43
Personally, I think it's a. 01:29:45
Great name for the department. 01:29:47
What about those that watch the show Park and Rec? What are we going to do? We still have a Parks and Rec. 01:29:51
Zach Beatty is the handles recreation and. 01:29:59
Yes, President handles the parks and then Valerie is over the library, so. 01:30:05
I think it's great to kind of signal. 01:30:15
Exactly what we're trying to do with the departments, there's a lot to be said. 01:30:17
In a name so. 01:30:21
I do like that. 01:30:22
As long as we're. 01:30:24
You know, in professional settings if he ever needs to identify himself as the parks and rec manager just for ease of not having 01:30:25
to explain our whole city vision. I think this is great for the public though, so I'm. 01:30:30
I'm supportive. I'm sure we can do a Facebook post too. Yes, introduce the new department. Yeah, for sure. 01:30:36
Yeah, I'm still of the opinion that the planning department needs to be. 01:30:43
I mean the. 01:30:47
Planning Commission needs to be with the planners. 01:30:49
OK, yeah, I'm not. I'm not against that. 01:30:51
I just think the mayor needs to have some sort of role. 01:30:54
In the in the planning and and especially the appointments. 01:30:58
So yeah, I think that that's going to say the same word. 01:31:01
This advice and consent and planning will always have a role in the planning department, whether it's, I think, under the mayor. 01:31:04
Yeah, I think each or not. 01:31:12
Yeah, I think the like that's kind of. 01:31:14
It's like so for for instance. I'll give you some other examples. 01:31:17
We toyed around with having. 01:31:21
The enrichment. 01:31:24
The enrichment. 01:31:29
Director and Parks and Rec. 01:31:31
And library under the mayor. 01:31:34
We toyed around with it and then we moved it back and the reason being is because it was very front facing. 01:31:37
It was. It's very public. 01:31:43
Everyone. 01:31:45
You know all the parks and rec it's. 01:31:46
Those are events. 01:31:48
I mean, they're the very definition of these sporting programs are very definition of events. 01:31:49
So. But that doesn't mean that Brian and I aren't going to work together. 01:31:55
And work together often. 01:32:00
To make the events, the 5K's and all the other programs that we run. 01:32:03
Make them run very smoothly and efficiently. 01:32:08
So he's still, he'll still be under the. 01:32:11
City Manager. 01:32:14
I'll be working with in quite a bit. 01:32:16
Do so there. There will be. 01:32:18
There will have to be and there should be cohesion. 01:32:21
And a lot of teamwork. 01:32:24
Between the. 01:32:26
2 branches. 01:32:27
Great. Anything else? David Pearson, did you have something you. 01:32:29
Taking questions. 01:32:33
Excuse me from the public. 01:32:34
You're the only one from the public here, so. 01:32:38
Come up. Come on. Here's Cascade neighborhood. 01:32:42
Now I. 01:32:46
Looking at the organizational chart. 01:32:48
Dividing specific responsibilities or specific functions of the city. 01:32:52
Into two different sections under. 01:32:57
I guess the deputy mayor. 01:33:02
And the city manager. But. 01:33:04
Are good ideas. I do have a question. 01:33:08
Thank you, sweetheart. 01:33:12
I do have a question. 01:33:13
It seems according to resolution. 01:33:15
202629. 01:33:19
You take the. 01:33:22
That the city manager. 01:33:25
Is over. 01:33:27
You take. 01:33:28
That the mayor has now. 01:33:29
Take those functions. 01:33:31
The day-to-day operation of the basic functions of the city. 01:33:32
Away from the mayor. 01:33:37
Put it in the city managers. 01:33:40
Bucket and the city manager and Turn reports to the council. 01:33:42
Correct. 01:33:47
ACE A7 member. 01:33:47
Excuse me, a six member body. 01:33:50
So. 01:33:54
It's am I reading that? 01:33:56
That the mayor gets stripped of his authorities to manage the day-to-day affairs. 01:33:59
Of the basic functions of the city. 01:34:04
And. 01:34:07
Back turns it to. 01:34:09
A6 Member Council. 01:34:11
So I'm. 01:34:14
Give you some I disagreed with this form of government, and loudly. 01:34:15
Attacked the previous council and Marty and. 01:34:20
The type of government that we move to. 01:34:23
There's there were four types of government that we had a choice to. The former one is no longer legally available. 01:34:26
And there was one that had the mayor having a ton of authority, and then there was a middle ground. And then there was the one we 01:34:32
chose, which was. 01:34:36
And if you read the code, the one we chose was. 01:34:41
The mayor is a figurehead or public. 01:34:44
Facing and didn't have any authority. 01:34:47
And so when the voters voted for the actually, I. 01:34:49
Personally, I have to disagree with that. 01:34:53
Because that was not the intent. The intent was. 01:34:55
To separate more definitively. 01:34:59
The legislative functions. 01:35:01
And the executive function because the old form of correct government, look at the state code, the mayor had entertained those it 01:35:04
separates, but IA 100% agree that it completely is separated. 01:35:09
Please. 01:35:15
OK. And what? 01:35:16
This does indeed while the intent. 01:35:17
Of changing the form of government. 01:35:20
Was to separate those two functions, which is as it should be. 01:35:22
Correct. 01:35:27
Come This takes everything away from the mayor. 01:35:29
Essentially, uh. 01:35:32
And gives it. 01:35:34
The daily operations and functions to the executive to the legislative branch. 01:35:35
On the 1st mayor in history that wants to give up power, Yeah I understand that. But. 01:35:41
With these you also have two. 01:35:47
Very capable. 01:35:50
People. 01:35:52
To delegate that. 01:35:53
Sure. So what you're saying? 01:35:54
Is is what park? It sounds like you and Parker so basically have the same thing. It's like. 01:35:57
Just do it, Zach. 01:36:02
Well, my. 01:36:03
I think that the. 01:36:05
That oversimplified maybe what Mr. Pierce was was saying. 01:36:07
In the sense. 01:36:11
That, umm. 01:36:12
The mayor. 01:36:14
Still should have. 01:36:16
Responsibility for the daily operations. 01:36:17
And uh. 01:36:20
Perhaps it's an amendment. 01:36:21
To how the code should be written then? 01:36:23
Because we are. 01:36:27
Giving. 01:36:28
Power to a city manager. 01:36:29
In accordance with. 01:36:31
The existing city code. 01:36:32
But in my. 01:36:35
Mind reading this interpretation? 01:36:36
It's not abdicating the mayor of his responsibility to the city. 01:36:39
It's more enabling the operation of. 01:36:43
An executive to run the organization. That's how I read and interpreted this. 01:36:47
I in my opinion. 01:36:52
If. 01:36:55
Say it again in a maybe more articulate way. 01:36:55
It's not that I believe. 01:36:58
That we should abdicate our authority in any way. 01:36:59
It's that. 01:37:03
We should empower. 01:37:04
The daily operations from the mayor's. 01:37:06
Purview. 01:37:10
So which? 01:37:12
Which this? 01:37:13
Resolution does not do. 01:37:14
Right, one of the one of the points I wanted to make eventually. 01:37:17
And after listening to the discussion is that. 01:37:20
The. 01:37:23
The organization organization chart doesn't match. 01:37:24
The actual code that we want to change. 01:37:28
And so and that's an issue and you've picked and you've landed on that very same point. 01:37:31
And that it really does. 01:37:35
The code gives the power to the city manager, exclusive of the mayor. 01:37:37
You know, and that that's and that's something we need to resolve. How are you? 01:37:41
And by having this discussion, I was hoping we would come to a. 01:37:46
A good delineation that we could then. 01:37:49
Write code to. 01:37:51
You know, to match. 01:37:53
So if I hear what you're saying. 01:37:55
Than the current city code. 01:37:58
Does exactly what this resolution. 01:37:59
Current city code, the way it is right now before, without it I mean we're. 01:38:03
Gives the power to the mayor to. 01:38:07
To to do these, to run the city the way we're talking about it. 01:38:09
We're simply talking about introducing a city manager that would help the mayor run it. That's what the org charts do. 01:38:12
Right, but the but the code that the changes to the code. 01:38:19
Want to take the power from the mayor and give it to a city manager? 01:38:23
Independent of the mayor. 01:38:26
So they may not have. 01:38:28
Whatever functions he holds, but the city manager would be. 01:38:29
Would be hold. 01:38:32
Power over the other things and they would the mayor would not be able to have influence or power over the city manager. 01:38:33
Other than. 01:38:39
You know, be able to fire. 01:38:41
Maybe it would help. 01:38:45
To change. So if we go back to. 01:38:45
So on the backup documents on the agenda item. 01:38:48
We just have the changes to the code that would kind of enable this so. 01:38:51
If you guys remember when we talked about. 01:38:55
This back in January of how the city would operate and everything. 01:38:58
We didn't. 01:39:02
Take the city manager responsibilities out of the code. 01:39:04
We basically just. 01:39:07
Kind of nullified them by not having. 01:39:09
A city manager to carry out those responses, We rewrote it to specify the mayor had that. 01:39:11
Authority Mayor. 01:39:16
Yeah, the cell manager and see there. 01:39:18
So if you go back into the code real quick, so so 2820. 01:39:21
It specifically talks about the city manager duties. 01:39:24
And many of those duties. 01:39:27
Like 5 assists the mayor and enforcing the laws. 01:39:30
Assist the mayor in recommending and preparing for council. So there's very clear like delineations between here's kind of the 01:39:32
mayor's. 01:39:36
Here's what the city manager is assisting the Marin versus Here's. 01:39:40
What the city manager does at the direction of. 01:39:43
All six of us. 01:39:46
As far as administering the affairs of the city. 01:39:47
And it looks a lot more like all of the other 6 member council forms of government that you see throughout the throughout the 01:39:49
county. 01:39:52
Where Spanish Fork? 01:39:55
Clothing Grove, all these other cities have this similar structure where the mayor has a lot of responsibility, and I do not envy 01:39:57
the job of the mayor because it is a lot of work. 01:40:01
And that's going to continue. But as far as. 01:40:06
Adding some administrative professional support to administer the day-to-day affairs. 01:40:09
That reports to. 01:40:13
All six members of the council taking direction from the. 01:40:15
You know the majority of the council whenever a vote is made. 01:40:18
That's the direction that they take, but they meet with. 01:40:22
Like I think the goal is for the city manager to meet with. 01:40:24
All of us. 01:40:27
At a regular cadence that makes sense so that. 01:40:28
We can all make sure we're. 01:40:30
We're keeping eyes on. 01:40:32
All the different parts of the city, because that's. 01:40:33
Just a lot for the mayor to do by himself. So would it be a more clean approach to maybe? 01:40:35
Write an amendment or amend the the resolution in the code to say that. 01:40:40
We're not transferring powers away from the mayor entirely, but instead. 01:40:45
We are. 01:40:48
Enabling a city manager to operate. 01:40:50
Under the direction of a mayor and council. 01:40:52
With delegated administrative authority. 01:40:55
Well, I I. 01:40:59
I just want to follow the. 01:41:01
Form of government that we voted for, the state has already set forth. 01:41:03
The form of government that we have. 01:41:07
We could rewrite. We could. 01:41:10
Override. 01:41:12
This the voters and. 01:41:13
Re put an ordinance that would. 01:41:15
Change it but. 01:41:18
If you look. 01:41:19
Because I was involved in the change of government. 01:41:20
And all Jesse did was. 01:41:23
Go back to what was in state code. 01:41:25
It's like, I think we're getting into the weeds here of like, let's reword it so it's this way and I'm like. 01:41:28
This we argued the three forms of government for six months. 01:41:33
Yeah, and the people chose the form of government, which is you are. 01:41:38
So that's that's what the people want. 01:41:43
Sort of. Now I've got to say it's excellent. 01:41:46
I think it's very smart. 01:41:50
To delineate. 01:41:52
These two things correct, we're giving. 01:41:54
Let me finish. 01:41:57
And to put. 01:41:58
Functions within the city manager's purview. 01:42:00
And functions within the deputy mayors. 01:42:03
Purview, but they all. 01:42:07
Should work for him and. 01:42:10
I understand your position and I fully agree with that. 01:42:12
But. 01:42:16
This is a matter of governmental. 01:42:16
Principal the executive branch. 01:42:21
And the legislative branch. 01:42:24
And this. 01:42:26
This resolution. 01:42:28
Muddles those, yeah. 01:42:30
Appreciate that, David. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Thank you but all. 01:42:32
Also like the six member council. 01:42:35
Is a muddle form. 01:42:39
It is a minor. Council is all the legislative and executive are together. 01:42:40
Right. And then the the mayor council, they're up, they're fully separated. 01:42:46
And the the the Six River Council. 01:42:49
Gives us a system that's sort of halfway in between it's needed. Quite. Need a fish or fowl? Exactly. 01:42:51
And I don't think. 01:42:56
I mean, I'm just. 01:42:58
I'm trying to pull up state code and read through as we're going here. I don't think that anything. 01:42:59
If we were to rewrite. 01:43:05
Resolution. 01:43:07
Rewrite code. Specify that a city manager is operating under delegated authority from the mayor and the council. 01:43:08
I don't think that that violates. 01:43:14
I know state code. 01:43:17
Yeah. I just don't think it's, I think we have the ability to do that what I'm never. 01:43:19
The way it's worded actually says exactly what you're doing. Like I'm like, yeah, it's worded specifically like. 01:43:22
The. 01:43:28
The mayor gets to vote, so he is a part of us. 01:43:29
And so at any given time, a majority can fire the CEO. 01:43:33
And that's the form. So like he is including and he is the head of the board. So you're you're right what you're saying like he's 01:43:37
because he because that is a vote when he gets to vote. 01:43:42
Yeah, but it's. 01:43:49
Everyone is a unit. 01:43:50
Is the form that we chose, which is I'm like. 01:43:52
But we. 01:43:55
So it's not like. 01:43:55
I don't know. 01:43:57
I think. 01:43:58
It's just the state just to kind of agree with what Jacob Wood said. 01:44:00
It's already kind of written like that. Like when we. 01:44:04
Put everything under the. 01:44:07
We basically kind of. 01:44:09
Took the the code that. 01:44:10
Was built around the structure of a city manager like state code has. 01:44:12
And just said. 01:44:15
We're going to delegate this to the mayor, but like. 01:44:16
So here we're changing delegates to the. 01:44:18
Mayor or delegates to the city manager the executive and administrative duties listed in. 01:44:21
2.04.30. 01:44:25
And two point 8.10. 01:44:27
If you look at 2.8 point 10. 01:44:29
It's literally the creation of the office of the city manager. 01:44:32
So we kind of already shoehorn things back into the mare so by. 01:44:35
Putting it back to the city manager. 01:44:38
I think it. 01:44:40
It all aligns a lot better. I think the code's already written to address some of the concerns you talked about and I was 01:44:41
specifically commenting on. 01:44:44
What Mr. Pierce brought up with the resolution where it specifies that it's taking authority from the mayor to give to the city 01:44:48
manager. 01:44:51
I'm just. 01:44:55
We can omit that line or make a revision. 01:44:56
In line with the code. 01:44:58
I'm sorry. 01:45:01
I may have not said. 01:45:03
Express myself clearly. 01:45:05
The point being, who manages the city manager? 01:45:07
On a day-to-day basis? And who does he report to? 01:45:11
According to. 01:45:15
The resolution. 01:45:17
He reports to the City Council. 01:45:18
For the day-to-day activities for everything. 01:45:21
He reports. Who was who was that funnel? 01:45:25
Yeah, who is the one? 01:45:28
Yeah, that supervises day-to-day the city manager as well as the deputy mayor. 01:45:30
Is that you've deluded. 01:45:36
Authority and you have confused the chain of authority. At least the resolution does. 01:45:38
And the current. 01:45:44
Organizational Chart. 01:45:46
Thanks for the comment Dan and I know. 01:45:49
That you for instance. 01:45:51
Are know exactly. 01:45:53
What the delineations of responsibilities? 01:45:56
Need to be. 01:46:00
And how? 01:46:01
That helps an organization work. 01:46:03
Much more effectively and efficiently. 01:46:06
Ah, that being the case. 01:46:11
I'm not saying we should burden the mayor. 01:46:13
But having. 01:46:16
The two people. 01:46:18
This should report to the mayor. 01:46:20
On the day-to-day basis. 01:46:24
You all set the direction. 01:46:26
But how that direction is? 01:46:29
Actually. 01:46:32
Turned into a day-to-day function of a city. 01:46:33
Should be. 01:46:37
Very clearly delineated to one person. 01:46:38
OK. I think I thank you, David. I better understand. 01:46:42
The positions now, thank you. That was an important clarification. I. 01:46:45
For me. 01:46:49
Now I understand your comment a little bit better too. 01:46:51
The way it is currently written. 01:46:55
A city manager reports to the council. 01:46:57
This is a 6 member council, the mayors on the council. That's why it's confusing where there's understood and he is the head. 01:46:59
So he does report to. 01:47:07
But it's through all six of us, not individually. 01:47:08
Yeah, I I would maybe just say for clarity sake, you could. 01:47:12
Right into the resolution or a code amendment that just specifies. 01:47:16
That, uh. 01:47:20
For the day-to-day operation. 01:47:21
The city manager can report to the mayor, but that's not an abdication of. 01:47:25
The rest of the council, correct. That's what I was getting at previously. 01:47:29
It's just the reality is all of us. 01:47:33
As council members. 01:47:35
Are part time at best. 01:47:36
It's not necessarily easy or feasible. 01:47:40
To be involved in the day-to-day supervision. 01:47:44
I think Jesse. 01:47:49
Riddle were here, he would remind us that the. 01:47:50
Power. It resides in the Council. 01:47:53
And the correction? 01:47:56
The the see I made that mistake too. 01:47:57
The governing body, the sovering body, there's a different legal situation. The council is five of us. 01:48:01
The governing body is including the mayor. 01:48:07
And because when it's. 01:48:11
When it's. 01:48:12
Going to his responsibilities, he is the head. 01:48:13
Of the governing body so. 01:48:16
City Manager reports to the. 01:48:18
Governing body which he is the head of. 01:48:20
So you have to use those. You have to use that differently. 01:48:22
When we're talking about other things, we talk about council, mayor. 01:48:25
But when we talk about those issues that are specific. 01:48:29
To the. 01:48:33
To where he votes. 01:48:34
We're talking about the governing body. 01:48:36
I'd like to hear. 01:48:40
From him, but yeah. 01:48:41
A little more about this. 01:48:42
So at the end of the day. 01:48:43
Jake's great. 01:48:46
The the governing body as a majority. 01:48:48
Hires and fires a city manager like let's, let's. 01:48:51
Let's pretend a different situation where like the mayor is somebody that the rest of the governing body completely disagrees 01:48:54
with. 01:48:58
The city manager is responsible for. 01:49:01
Carrying out the day-to-day operations of the city. 01:49:05
In his best. 01:49:07
Estimation or his best judgment on. 01:49:09
The majority of the body. 01:49:12
Outrage and he serves up to pleasure and they'll probably meet with the mayor more often than. 01:49:13
The rest of the yeah, I think that. 01:49:17
The major difference here is that we have two city managers. 01:49:20
You know, working 1's called the deputy mayor. 01:49:23
And other cities have one city manager. 01:49:26
Take advantage of the whole thing and we're looking at having 2. 01:49:29
Well, I think that's where. 01:49:33
Like like David Kyle. 01:49:35
As deputy mayor is appointed by the mayor like we didn't vote, there's no statutory. 01:49:37
Function that says we need to vote for that position and so that is really. 01:49:42
Deputy mayor needs to keep the mayor happy. 01:49:47
We can't fire the deputy mayor. That's solely the mayor's responsibility and. 01:49:49
His appointment versus. 01:49:53
A city manager who we all. 01:49:55
Have reporting authority over. 01:49:58
David, could I ask those things? Sorry. 01:50:00
Most cities also have assistant city managers too. 01:50:03
And we don't have that. 01:50:07
Yeah. You don't have that. We don't have an assistant city manager, correct? Yeah. 01:50:08
No, there's a lot. 01:50:11
I don't disagree with anything that's been said really. 01:50:16
The six member. 01:50:19
Council, it's. 01:50:22
Kind of, it feels like it's kind of in between. 01:50:24
Right between like. 01:50:26
We're just barely said it went from Township to a city. 01:50:27
5 member, right? Then you go kind of grow and then eventually it's just, it's kind of a stopgap, right? 01:50:30
Vineyard, I anticipate they're gonna in 20 years when we're built out or how many years were built out, it'll be. 01:50:35
OK. 01:50:41
This is probably. 01:50:43
This is going to probably be a full time mayor. 01:50:44
Right, or something like that. And then. 01:50:46
Just have a really good delineation of responsibility, so. 01:50:49
I think the debate is, is where do we want to go? 01:50:52
Right as we kind of earn our teenage years, I guess you could call it. 01:50:55
My thought is that. 01:51:01
I understand everything, David Pierce, your point? 01:51:04
Parker, everyone. 01:51:07
Very points really well taken because ultimately. 01:51:08
Operational efficiency, it's. 01:51:13
That. 01:51:16
They report to ultimately one person that just. It just works better that way. 01:51:17
But. 01:51:23
With that being said, I just. 01:51:24
The concern I I just want to make sure. 01:51:26
That, uh. 01:51:29
Ultimately, we are. 01:51:30
Sticking closest to what? 01:51:33
The people voted for. 01:51:35
And ensuring that's happened and give counsel. 01:51:38
I want to have counsel, feel comfortable. 01:51:41
Having. 01:51:44
More say in the day-to-day operations of the city. 01:51:46
And like Ezra said, let's just say, OK, let's just say that we. 01:51:51
In 10 years from now? 01:51:55
There's a mayor that everyone hates, right? 01:51:56
Thankfully, we all get along very well, right We we just do and we were aligned in. 01:51:59
Most things. 01:52:04
Umm. 01:52:06
But it can change and I don't want to get. 01:52:08
Our city in a situation down the road. 01:52:11
Where? 01:52:14
Because the other challenge is is one of the hardest things is when you give. 01:52:16
The mayor, a ton of power is getting back from him. 01:52:20
It's just brutal. 01:52:22
And I'm saying. 01:52:24
Things are. 01:52:25
Let's make sure. 01:52:25
That we have this right. 01:52:28
Because I'm not. 01:52:30
You know. 01:52:32
I'm not inner, I'm not one to. 01:52:34
Not power hungry. I don't. It's not me. 01:52:37
I just want but I want to run an efficient city and make sure everyone feels comfortable. 01:52:39
That you guys have the access to the to the staff and all that. 01:52:45
To get your initiatives across. 01:52:48
And so forth so. 01:52:51
Those are my thoughts. 01:52:52
To some umm. 01:52:54
Basically it's. 01:52:55
We're in the we're. 01:52:57
The proverbial teenager were gangly. You know, we're growing fast and. 01:52:59
Skinny and lurky and of this weird. And so it's like, how do we handle that until we mature? 01:53:02
Down the road so. 01:53:08
That's all I would have to say. 01:53:11
So so just a couple things on the. 01:53:12
City code. 01:53:16
Revisions that I've gathered. 01:53:16
So in a four. 01:53:18
Under the first part, just specifying. 01:53:22
Right now it just says events, lobbying, media, communications, so specifying those. 01:53:24
Additional responsibilities that are going to be in the mayor's office. 01:53:28
And then? 01:53:31
I just had a comment about 7. 01:53:33
Maybe having some sort of? 01:53:36
I mean, I guess. 01:53:39
You know, the council sets the budget, so you've got to operate within the budget, but. 01:53:40
Maybe be helpful to have. 01:53:44
Just I'm always going to advocate for the staffing plan to be reviewed by the council since it's such a. 01:53:46
Huge potential impact on the budget. 01:53:51
For sure. 01:53:52
OK, so. 01:53:56
OK, Anything else, Council? I think we just sync with Jesse on the wording and. 01:53:58
Talk to him, I think, OK. 01:54:03
OK. 01:54:05
OK, awesome. 01:54:07
Are any other comments on this? 01:54:09
Next steps will be syncing with Jesse. 01:54:11
Get the wording right. 01:54:14
Final thing for final, final thing for vote next week. 01:54:16
So, OK, great. 01:54:19
Awesome. 01:54:20
Oh sorry, I had one more comment on the. 01:54:21
On the resolution I saw that the resolution for the. 01:54:24
City manager appointments on there too. 01:54:27
Could we have that agreement? 01:54:29
I would. 01:54:31
Recommend that agreement being a. 01:54:32
At least. 01:54:34
Reviewed. 01:54:35
By the Council as well. 01:54:36
That's another one where I've. 01:54:37
I just want to make sure. 01:54:39
In line with. 01:54:40
Our budget, all of our. 01:54:41
You're talking about Brian's? 01:54:43
Brian yeah, that resolution 20/26/29 and. 01:54:44
Well, there's two Section 4. 01:54:48
Making one of those Section 4, Section 5 and then. 01:54:50
In Section 2. 01:54:54
OK, having that. 01:54:56
Terms, all that stuff approved by the Council, since you know, if we can. 01:54:57
Jointly hire and fire em. I think we should all. 01:55:01
Kind of have that input which you've been providing us, which is great I think. 01:55:03
We should just make that official though. Sure, sounds good. 01:55:07
OK, great. 01:55:10
OK, alrighty. 01:55:11
We got one last. 01:55:13
Let's see. 01:55:15
Anything else on this 5.2? 01:55:17
OK, all righty. 01:55:20
I wanted to give a quick update on 5.4, kind of where we are with Cadence. 01:55:23
We got staff here is Anthony took off. 01:55:27
He stepped out OK, so just high level we're. 01:55:31
Really familiar with this development agreement came to the last Council. 01:55:33
There's stuff inside the Cadence development agreement they don't like. 01:55:37
There's stuff inside we don't mic. 01:55:40
There's Diz, but we're under contract. We have a, we have a DA today. 01:55:43
Cadence asked to change some things, which is totally within their right. 01:55:48
We asked to change some things that we don't like. 01:55:51
And. 01:55:55
So we're just kind of an impasse, emails back and forth. 01:55:56
I'm waiting. I think that. 01:55:59
There is going to be withdraw. 01:56:00
Of the development agreement. 01:56:02
Is what I think. 01:56:04
The last e-mail I read. 01:56:05
But we'll just kind of wait and see. 01:56:06
And if not, we'll just. 01:56:08
Pounded out next week. 01:56:12
Oh, so, OK. Anthony, did you have anything you needed to talk about the cadence? 01:56:13
I just had a brief summary about the entire project. 01:56:19
Just to keep everyone. 01:56:22
OK, OK. 01:56:23
Did did do we have any questions for? 01:56:25
I don't know, can we get the presentation first? 01:56:28
Sure, sure. Let's do it. 01:56:31
So just. 01:57:00
Just before you get into your discussions, this would provide the public and the rest of Council. 01:57:02
With. 01:57:08
An update on what's been going on. 01:57:09
So. 01:57:11
Great. Thank you. My name is Anthony Fletcher and I will be presenting this on behalf of Planning and Engineering and Public 01:57:17
Works. 01:57:20
So. 01:57:26
A summary of the entire holdaway fields development. A development agreement was approved. 01:57:28
And you know, July of 2020. 01:57:33
2022. 01:57:37
And the parties involved. 01:57:38
As the developer. 01:57:40
Was. 01:57:41
Cadence Homes being led by Ryan Bybee. 01:57:42
We have them here. 01:57:45
And we also have good Burrow being led by Nate Burchill and. 01:57:46
Eric Moghuli. 01:57:52
Current update on the build out. We have 14 under construction and we have 35. 01:57:54
Completed. Yeah. 01:57:59
To give you a context. 01:58:01
Of where it's located. 01:58:03
It's down this. 01:58:06
You know, Main row, Main St. 01:58:07
South of the city. 01:58:10
And that here shows a breakdown. 01:58:14
Of the overall site and what is intended to go in, it's going to be a 200 and. 01:58:17
95 unit. 01:58:22
Development. 01:58:25
Which is going to be a mix of larger single family homes and much smaller lots. 01:58:26
Which you know we call the cottage lots here on the development which would be the 55 plus communities with much smaller units. 01:58:32
So the developer is required according to development agreement to provide 3 parks as part of the development. 01:58:42
Also provide a senior housing. 01:58:50
Clubhouse and some amenities and throughout this development there's their milestones to. 01:58:53
Reach where they connect to. 01:59:00
The roads and extents and roads that exist in the city and trails as well. 01:59:02
So just to give an example of how the milestones are being worked out. 01:59:08
One of the parks which is the Westlake Park. 01:59:14
Is intended to be plotted with. 01:59:18
Phase three and completed before they have any. 01:59:21
Certificate of occupancy for any of the homes in phase three in the current development agreement that's been recorded. 01:59:26
And other two parks are intended to be. 01:59:32
You know the same conditions for phase 7. 01:59:36
And this is just to give you an idea of, you know, the various parks and how it's been programmed. I'm not. 01:59:41
Delve too much into it. 01:59:47
I'm just going to run through. 01:59:49
A few of these SO. 01:59:52
We received. 01:59:54
Developmental. 01:59:56
Development agreement Amendment application. 01:59:57
By the developer. 02:00:00
And. 02:00:02
What they're requesting to do is to change the facing. 02:00:03
Plan. 02:00:07
And and the reasoning behind that is so that the. 02:00:09
You know, umm. 02:00:12
The the way they build out is. 02:00:13
Better reflecting of what? 02:00:15
Their construction strategy is and how the market is dictating to whatever. 02:00:17
Products that you're putting out? 02:00:22
And also this would affect. 02:00:24
When they. 02:00:27
Get parks out. 02:00:28
You know. 02:00:30
Dedicated to the city. 02:00:31
On the timing. 02:00:33
Especially yeah. 02:00:34
So we did a big review about it. 02:00:37
This entire application and we had some concerns our staff. 02:00:40
That we brought to the attention of the governing Body. 02:00:45
And. 02:00:50
One of that would be. 02:00:52
That the current development agreement locks in the. 02:00:54
Impact fees for. 02:00:57
The developers. 02:00:59
In developing the 295 units. 02:01:00
Of homes that they're. 02:01:03
Plan to build. 02:01:04
And. 02:01:06
We as staff. 02:01:07
You know have some recommendations I'm going to run through and also. 02:01:08
We want to see this, seize this opportunity. 02:01:12
To you know, at least. 02:01:15
In this, you know, renegotiation of this amendment. 02:01:17
Allow the governing body to decide on which structures of the existing parks that they have. 02:01:21
We have. 02:01:27
The existing areas that has been designated for parks that we have structures on. 02:01:29
I know there's been interest by the Heritage Commission and you know, arts and all that to keep some of these structures for some. 02:01:34
Heritage nature of these parks that will be built in the future, so at least the. 02:01:42
Governing body or council should be given. 02:01:48
One year period. 02:01:50
Through all this amendment process to decide on what they want to keep and what they don't want to keep because. 02:01:51
The developer can tear it down and we cannot tell them to stop it if we. 02:01:58
Decide to. 02:02:01
So to give you an idea, this is how the. 02:02:04
Originally approved. 02:02:08
Face and plan looks like. 02:02:10
We have worked with them over time because there's been constant, you know? 02:02:12
As they built because this was hypothetical when they started in government agreement was signed. 02:02:16
As they start to build, they find little things that would be more helpful and we've been working with them over time. 02:02:22
To accommodate some of these changes and nuances that comes with development implementation on the ground. 02:02:28
We work with them to have this. 02:02:35
You know, administratively approved. 02:02:37
Phase and plan which just essentially. 02:02:40
Removed 22 lots from phase six and incorporated that into phase two and removed, you know, 34 lots from phase two and designated 02:02:43
that into phase six. Just helping them work well with. 02:02:49
How the building strategy is, and we realize that's more and more of these change requests happened. It had to really be turned 02:02:55
into a major amendment application rather than having to change little things here and there. So we do it all once and with the 02:03:01
help of the council. 02:03:06
So this is what is being. 02:03:14
Proposed by the applicant. 02:03:15
A lot of changes. I have it here side by side. 02:03:19
Or on top of each other. 02:03:22
Carly approved. 02:03:25
On the on the. 02:03:26
Image and one on the bottom is what is being proposed. You can tell that. 02:03:28
Phase 6 is now going to be Phase 9. 02:03:33
And you know phase 8 is going to be phase 6. 02:03:36
A&B and you know C is just quite a bit of changes that we need to all coordinate on. 02:03:39
Now. 02:03:46
The impact fee breakdown that we had talked about. 02:03:47
I talked, I mentioned earlier, we have two developers. 02:03:50
The Cadence home that's on the north portion of the development, which is north of 400 S. 02:03:53
And no. 02:03:58
North of. 02:04:01
Yeah, North or farther South and Goodborough, which is? 02:04:02
Located South of Florida South. 02:04:06
Now based on. 02:04:09
How they're being serviced with sewer, it affects the prices. And so this is just a breakdown for Cadence and we have the same 02:04:12
breakdown given for. 02:04:16
Goodborough. 02:04:22
Developer as well. 02:04:24
I don't want to go into all the specifics, but you can tell from here. I'm just going to go up to cadence. You can tell from here. 02:04:26
There are a few changes here where. 02:04:30
You know the. 02:04:34
Water. 02:04:35
The impact fee on, you know. 02:04:37
Central Water, when they signed up, it was being. 02:04:39
For water was Aurum water. 02:04:43
And now it's being provided by. 02:04:46
Central Utah Water At the time it was about 2800. 02:04:48
And now is about 7879 hundred. 02:04:52
That's a change. So if we restrict it. 02:04:55
We see that as an. 02:04:57
Issue for, you know, the city, if the city decides to keep this restricted while they're trying to make a lot of. 02:04:58
You know, request for amendments to the development agreement and that's just one of them. We don't, you know, at the time when 02:05:05
this was being signed, we didn't have a parks and recs impact fee. 02:05:10
We currently do have that, so we just. 02:05:14
Put that in the. 02:05:17
And this breakdown to give you a fair idea of how it's going to look if we had to even charge that. 02:05:18
Right, same breakdown. 02:05:23
You know. 02:05:26
Analogy for. 02:05:28
Goodborough as well. 02:05:29
The changes are a little different because for them. 02:05:31
They have been being. 02:05:33
Sarah fees being paid to arm reclamation. 02:05:36
District and not TSSD which is the other one for. 02:05:39
Cadence home on the Northside of Four Under South. 02:05:43
So there's a lot to think about when it comes to them having a restricted. 02:05:47
Or locked in impact fees from the time it got signed. 02:05:51
And. 02:05:55
For the current. 02:05:57
You know. 02:05:58
You know fees and if it's not restricted. 02:05:59
I have a column that. 02:06:02
You know. 02:06:03
Breaks it down as well and we can go more into detail if you want to later on. 02:06:04
I want to hold you up here too much now. 02:06:09
You know, after all the. 02:06:12
Review discussions, Analysis possible. 02:06:13
You know, we, we support the. 02:06:17
I want to say I want to. 02:06:20
You choose my rewards, right? 02:06:21
Everything that they have. 02:06:24
Applied for. 02:06:27
Is consistent and in compliance with. 02:06:28
General plan. 02:06:32
You know, various plans that exist in the city. 02:06:33
So they're in compliance, however. 02:06:36
We want to subject. 02:06:40
You know, have a clarification on the timing of impact fees? 02:06:42
While they're having this amendment be reviewed by. 02:06:46
Staff and council so that. 02:06:50
You know, moving forward we can have. 02:06:52
Impact fees be assessed and calculated. 02:06:55
You know, at the time of a building permit application. 02:06:58
As is done everywhere else. 02:07:02
And. 02:07:05
We do not. 02:07:06
A staff support. 02:07:07
Locking in impact fees. 02:07:09
You know, for any you know executed. 02:07:12
Development agreement at all, so would like to have that. 02:07:16
Straighten out. 02:07:20
While we do this amendment. 02:07:21
Also we included in the, you know. 02:07:22
Probably in Page 9. 02:07:25
Of the. 02:07:26
Proposed amendment change. We included language. We worked with our attorney Jesse Ritto to come up with a language that. 02:07:28
Does not restrict the impact fees. 02:07:35
Moving forward. 02:07:37
So you can review that as well. 02:07:38
Thank you. 02:07:41
Questions are all for Anthony Counsel. 02:07:42
Regarding this. 02:07:45
So just to be clear. 02:07:47
Then the the impact feed. 02:07:49
Differences of those fees those those are. 02:07:51
Charges that come to the city that we would have to pay. 02:07:54
Eventually, uh. 02:07:57
And so the city would have to pay those. 02:07:58
Well, they're, they're pass through. There's some, yes, they're getting pass through fees we don't have to pay. They're not city. 02:08:00
Levied fees, those are, yes, they're third party fees. We aren't paying for them. 02:08:06
Somebody would have to pay him. 02:08:11
Yes, we don't. We aren't issuing right now. We have to. Let me back up. 02:08:13
No, we're not issuing builders permits until they're paid. 02:08:17
They're not. We have no control over them. 02:08:20
So they have to be paid, they have to be for building before it's. 02:08:22
So. And that's the thing we have control over. 02:08:27
OK, so I'd like to say next steps. 02:08:30
After whatever discussion we have today. 02:08:35
Or Council has today. 02:08:37
You'd have to have a public hearing. Schedule a date for a public hearing. 02:08:40
Where this? 02:08:44
Item is going to be considered formally. 02:08:45
And since this is a work session, just discussion so you guys can all be on the same page before we move to that. 02:08:48
And after that public hearing? 02:08:55
Which could all be in the same meeting would have it as a business item. 02:08:58
Where a City Council makes a decision. 02:09:02
And. 02:09:04
You know, makes an. 02:09:06
Takes an action on that. 02:09:07
And at that point? 02:09:08
City Council can either approve. 02:09:10
Approve with certain conditions. 02:09:13
Based on what you decide and discuss. 02:09:15
And also deny. 02:09:18
Develop an agreement. 02:09:19
Amendment Application. 02:09:21
OK. Thank you. 02:09:25
That's all I have. 02:09:27
Thank you. 02:09:28
Counsel any discussion. 02:09:29
Regarding this. 02:09:31
This is a developer. How many comments? 02:09:36
Which that did the developer? How many comments? 02:09:39
Do you have any comments, Ryan? 02:09:42
Of course. 02:09:47
I feel like we've hashed this out. 02:09:51
A lot, yeah. 02:09:53
Discussed it many times. 02:09:55
I think our our kind of current request is and there was an e-mail sent in response to your e-mail. 02:09:57
Mayor last week requesting that. 02:10:03
This be moved to the City Council. 02:10:05
Per the motion that was made by the. 02:10:07
Planning Commission. 02:10:09
Which essentially says that I think we agree on everything. 02:10:11
Both from the city's perspective and developers perspective. 02:10:15
Except for the impact fee issue, which is a big one for both you and it is for us as well. For both of us, yeah. 02:10:18
It's the crux of the whole issue, correct? Yeah. 02:10:25
And I don't know to be honest that it's going to get resolved between. 02:10:28
Yeah, we've met with you. We've tried to come up with understand where warriors are now talking. They there was they had a 02:10:31
conversation. So I think that perhaps the thing to do is just. 02:10:35
Yeah, anyways. 02:10:40
Keep going please. 02:10:41
Yeah, I guess my my question is, is. 02:10:42
Can we not agree to disagree on that point and let that be sorted out between attorneys? We're continuing to pay, as you know. 02:10:47
The building permit. 02:10:55
Fees. Umm. 02:10:57
Obviously under duress or protest, we don't agree with them, but we're paying them because we have. 02:10:59
To continue building. 02:11:04
But everything else in the development agreement. 02:11:05
We agree on. 02:11:08
So can we not move forward and accept? 02:11:09
There's doesn't put the city in any negative worse position if we're wrong on the interpretation in the development agreement. 02:11:12
Then it's no skin off the city's back. If we're right, then that was. 02:11:19
What we felt was negotiated fair and upfront for. 02:11:23
The dedication of parks. 02:11:26
The size of roads. 02:11:28
The agreement on density in the whole project. So it's a difficult one for us to kind of sit back and say. 02:11:30
We gave the city everything. 02:11:36
Pretty much that they wanted. 02:11:38
Again, we've talked about all this, you know, our position, I just feel like. 02:11:40
It's time to set that position aside, and that was what the Planning Commission said. 02:11:43
And let's move forward and adopt. 02:11:47
Or amend the development agreement for all the other points that are both good for the city and good for us. Sure. 02:11:50
And let the let the play out. Let that play out how it plays out. 02:11:55
Thank you. 02:11:59
You can be seated now. Thank you. Can I ask? 02:12:00
Trying to. 02:12:05
Formulate this in my head. 02:12:06
Ryan just made the the comments that. 02:12:09
You know, it doesn't put the city in a worse position, David. 02:12:12
Previously brought up the fact that if. 02:12:15
The impact fees aren't paid, the city pays the difference because those are required prior to the building so. 02:12:17
And in my head, that does put the city in a worse position. But then there's another factor that maybe needs to be considered and 02:12:23
that's. 02:12:26
You get people in and you generate property tax revenue on those those lots. 02:12:29
I would be curious to see and I don't know, maybe this is too much to ask. 02:12:34
But what's the actual? 02:12:38
Breakdown. 02:12:42
Of the financial revenues generated. 02:12:43
Per property. 02:12:46
And the time it takes to recoup. 02:12:49
The cost? 02:12:53
Lost to. 02:12:54
Impact fees. 02:12:57
From. 02:12:59
Property. 02:13:00
That taxes, I would imagine that on an average home there, it's probably three years. 02:13:01
It would take three years of property taxes to pay. 02:13:05
For those. 02:13:09
Impact fees. 02:13:10
I'm just curious what then you still have the holistic conversation is you still have the use of the. 02:13:11
City resources during those, correct? Yeah, agreed. So there's a lot to calculate. 02:13:17
But when you look at. 02:13:24
You know, making an investment, for example. 02:13:25
And I'm just playing devil's advocate to get the thought juices flow in here. But when you make an investment for an example, you 02:13:28
don't necessarily think that you're going to get a return in year 1, two or three. 02:13:33
You look at the long term. 02:13:38
Payoff. 02:13:40
To some degree. 02:13:41
That said. 02:13:42
And I know, Ryan, you were in here. 02:13:43
For the presentations on the. 02:13:46
Repavement. 02:13:50
And I think that that's a really big. 02:13:52
Issue. 02:13:56
In regards to. 02:13:57
The necessity for the city to. 02:13:59
Capture impact fees where we can capture them. 02:14:01
For people who maybe were here or weren't here. 02:14:05
When we had Hales Engineering and who was it EPF come in and do their. 02:14:08
Their presentation on why they had implemented that the tough or recommended that. 02:14:13
We identified that the city has. 02:14:18
Something like $30 million in. 02:14:20
Re Sorry, pavement preservation and. 02:14:24
Pavement. 02:14:27
Maintenance, uh. 02:14:28
Over the course of like the next three to five years that was projected. 02:14:29
And our city budget. 02:14:33
Is like. 02:14:35
15 to 17,000,000 total cumulative. 02:14:36
And that's, you know, obviously including a significant amount of. 02:14:39
Outside the city funding. 02:14:42
I think like for this year, for example, we were just talking about it, there's 7 million. 02:14:45
Dollars coming in from grants and from outside funding sources. So really the city generated budget and the capital expenditures 02:14:50
budget is like. 02:14:53
5.7 million. 02:14:58
For capital, capital expenses? 02:14:59
So there's just no way. 02:15:01
Without. 02:15:03
Impact fee collection that the city can afford. 02:15:05
To sustain its current growth. 02:15:09
Correct. And so I think that. 02:15:11
I mean, just sharing that. 02:15:13
For everyone's understanding. 02:15:14
That's the actual impact that we're at, from my perspective, on the City Council. 02:15:16
Is if. 02:15:21
We keep developing and everyone wants to develop because that's what's in the economic best interest for the city. 02:15:22
I'm not trying to share this from an anti development standpoint. 02:15:28
It's the recognition that the city will go bankrupt. 02:15:31
And we will become Orem again. 02:15:35
At least that's I. 02:15:38
Think how that plays out long term, because there's not. 02:15:39
We don't have a mechanism. 02:15:43
To cover that expense. 02:15:45
Overtime. Can I make a comment? Sure, please. I mean please, Mr. Mayor, let's. 02:15:47
I will allow one comment. 02:15:53
Come on up, Ryan. 02:15:55
I totally understand your position. 02:15:58
The challenge for us is that. 02:16:00
The conversation and the negotiation ship has sailed. 02:16:03
And we? 02:16:07
Did things based on what was presented and done, like and and. 02:16:08
To come back and say nothing changes on. 02:16:13
Your side. 02:16:15
You continue to do everything that we got from you. 02:16:17
But we now want you to do this. 02:16:20
Is that just that? That's the that's a hard pill to swallow. 02:16:23
Can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. 02:16:27
You. 02:16:29
Just mentioned that nothing changes on your side. 02:16:31
There is. 02:16:34
Proposed changes though, could you? 02:16:35
Sure, maybe sure what that sure looks like. 02:16:37
There is nothing in this development agreement. 02:16:39
That has not. 02:16:42
Or was not important to the city that hasn't been delivered for South is done, East to West connections are done. 02:16:43
All we are trying to do. 02:16:49
Is bring in lots. 02:16:51
In this area, sooner than lots in that area. 02:16:53
Doesn't impact the city at all. There's no negative impact of the city whether we bring in a lot. 02:16:56
Here or there. 02:17:02
That I can see. You may smile, Mayor, but I that's what I'm trying to say is like. 02:17:04
There is no. 02:17:08
There, yes, we would like. 02:17:09
The only thing we would like to do is build phase three over phase 7. 02:17:11
Yeah, substantively, there's no change in that. There's ask. 02:17:14
Why? Because I recognize you're running a business. I run a business. There's a. 02:17:19
Financial or economic driver in there somewhere there is not. 02:17:23
Goodborough Development is selling single 55 and older homes fast, slower than we are selling single family homes. 02:17:27
Our phasing plan, which we were asked to do at the beginning of a 300 lot subdivision, was a shot in the dark. Did I anticipate 02:17:35
that $1.2 million homes were going to sell faster than $700,000 homes? I did not. 02:17:41
So because we're joined at the hip and because there's phasing plans there. 02:17:48
We're stuck. I can't build any more houses because Goodborough can't move forward with their phase before I move forward with my 02:17:52
next phase. That's the only reason. 02:17:56
But it's no financial impact to me. 02:18:00
Or to them, it's just simply saying, let's bring on more single family homes. 02:18:03
Than 55 and older homes. We're not asking to deliver parks differently. 02:18:07
We're not asking to deliver rows differently, they're all delivered. 02:18:11
But isn't the impact fee also a shot in the dark because we didn't realize that we would have to increase our impact fees and so 02:18:14
therefore we had a unintended cost increase as well? 02:18:19
Like I see that as both sides like. 02:18:25
You're wanting to tie in your. 02:18:27
Your cost that can be stuck. 02:18:29
Yet in the real world, the city. 02:18:32
Had to. 02:18:34
Adjust for inflation and all the different costs. 02:18:35
Like we didn't. Ours was a shot in the dark on the impact fees back then when we signed it anywhere. 02:18:38
So it's like you had to guess and we had to guess and you guessed wrong and we guessed wrong. And now we're like, wow, our impact 02:18:46
fees are completely off. It doesn't even cover. I guess it's much different when you're guessing on dollars versus. 02:18:51
Where lots are coming in, that's the difference is we have an ***. You're still guessing on dollars depending on what you're 02:18:57
selling like versus you're not selling smaller lots versus the bigger. I mean nobody knows. 02:19:02
Which ones you're going to sell, I mean. 02:19:08
I guess it's like. 02:19:11
I see both sides. 02:19:12
Yeah, we didn't know about the future, but it's like all these pass through costs. 02:19:15
Asking the city to pay for the other. 02:19:19
Government entities. 02:19:22
Even though their costs went up, that locked you in. The difference here is is density is like we this is. 02:19:24
This is the only 110 acre. 02:19:31
Strictly single family development that I know of in all of Utah. 02:19:34
Right now. And we did that. 02:19:38
In exchange and conversation with the city. 02:19:40
You won't be able to find another 110 acre development. 02:19:43
Currently under construction that is straight single family homes. 02:19:46
Can I ask a question about? 02:19:50
The impact fees I previously had mentioned. 02:19:52
When you were here a month or two ago? 02:19:57
You know I look at this. 02:20:00
You implement an impact fee. 02:20:01
The builder pays that upfront, but you. 02:20:03
Tack it on to the cost of the home. 02:20:06
It's easier to. 02:20:08
Pass that to a consumer via a 30 year mortgage where that $5000 or so is. 02:20:10
You know, wrapped up into a few $100 a year overtime. 02:20:15
As opposed to it. 02:20:19
You know, implementing a fee or a tax at the city level. 02:20:20
That would. 02:20:24
Essentially, try to recoup those costs faster to keep us. 02:20:25
From having an operating deficit. 02:20:29
What's the? 02:20:31
Hesitation from your end. We sell home based on what the market is. We don't sell a home. 02:20:32
Saying it's this price. 02:20:37
And then we're going to add on these fees that the city has imposed. It's just not the way. It's just not the way a free market 02:20:39
works. It's not it's like. 02:20:43
This is a cost that. 02:20:48
You're now asking the developer to bear. 02:20:49
You're not asking for the end user to bear. I'm stuck on what I can charge a home for based on what the market is. I can't go out 02:20:52
tomorrow and say I'm going to increase home prices. 02:20:57
$11,000 because impact fees change today. 02:21:02
It's not the way. It's not the way that would work. Appreciate it so. 02:21:06
We're 15 minutes gone over. 02:21:10
So thank you, Ryan. I think we're done with. 02:21:11
We'll appreciate your comments. 02:21:13
Council do want to discuss anything else before we wrap this up. 02:21:18
I think, I think this whole, this whole, is there any, this Goodborough have any? 02:21:22
I know a lot of this has just been are you just representing Goodborough too? 02:21:27
Yeah. 02:21:30
Is there anything we need to do for? 02:21:33
Vineyard Days. 02:21:36
No, I think we need a picture. 02:21:37
We need what I need a picture. 02:21:40
A picture picture. 02:21:42
When you go take a picture. So let's get that. Thank you. Meeting adjourned. 02:21:44
Thank you. Anthony, would you keep the? 02:21:48
Video umm. 02:21:51
Online I mean the picture on the screens. 02:21:52