Start Position
CALL TO ORDER- Chair Knighton called the meeting to order.
INVOCATION- Vice Chair Brady offered an invocation.
OPEN SESSION- Resident David Lauret requested information on how to get application for traffic calming to the city council.  Resident Kerry Haude asked about the bike path south of Franklin Elementary.  
MINUTES REVIEW AND APPROVAL1    November,212    December213    February22   MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE NOVEMBER,21, DECEMBER21, AND FEBRUARY22, WITH THE MENTIONED CHANGES. VICE CHAIR BRADY SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWED: CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.           BUSINESS ITEMS1
Public Hearing, Site Plan and Conditional Use Permit- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is seeking approval of a conditional use permit and site plan for a place of assembly located at2 N0 W. Parcel Number:914:0058. The property is in the Hampton subdivision and zoned SFD-15000   Planner II Briam Amaya Perez presented the site plan and staff review.
Lafe Harris with BHD Architects presented and answered questions from the Planning Commission.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BRADY MOTIONED TO OPEN THE MEETING A PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWED: CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Public comments and questions were given.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BRADY MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWED: CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BRADY MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WITH CONDITIONS THAT THE PARKING LOT IS ADEQUATELY LIT, THAT ALL PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS CROSSING VEHICLE TRAFFIC WILL BE ADEQUATELY DIFFERENTIATED, THAT THE DIAGONAL PEDESTRIAN CROSSING IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY BE CHANGED TO DIRECTIONAL RAMPS, THAT NO DEEP ROOTED VEGETATION MAY BE PLANTED NEAR FIRE HYDRANTS, THAT ALL EXTERIOR SIGNAGE WILL BE REVIEWED THROUGH A SEPARATE SIGN PERMIT, AND THAT AN EASEMENT WILL BE PROVIDED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY FOR A TRAIL. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWED: CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE.     WORKSESSION1
Traffic Impact Study Training Ryan Hales with Hales Engineering gave an educational seminar regarding the uses and benefits of traffic impact studies.         COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSION DISCLOSURE
Chair Knighton reviewed the Planning Commission bylaws regarding attendance.      Community Development Director Morgan Brim gave an update of the Waterfront Master Plan. City Engineer Naseem Ghandour updated the Planning Commission on the status of the Frontrunner station.   ADJOURNMENT
Chair Knighton adjourned the meeting   CERTIFIED CORRECT ON:  March,22   CERTIFIED BY:   /s/ Cache Hancey                          Cache Hancey, Planning Technician
Order our Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. 00:00:02
We're going to have Commissioner Bryce Brady give us an invocation. 00:00:06
Dearly Father, we're thankful that we can be here for this meeting for the in your Planning Commission. Please bless us as we go 00:00:14
through these things that we're talking about that will be inspired as to what needs to be done here at Vineyard for the benefit 00:00:20
of the community. We're so thankful for those that volunteer their time and efforts to make this a great place to live, and we're 00:00:27
thankful for the citizens that come and voice their concerns and help us make this city a great city. 00:00:33
We're so thankful for all that we have. We love the and we see these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:41
Hey, Bruce. 00:00:46
All right. So on the agenda, we have an open session. If there's any members of the community that have something that they want 00:00:48
to share, that's not on our agenda. And if you want to come up to the podium and state your name. 00:00:53
Hi, David Loray, resident. 00:01:04
So I have a question actually for the board. 00:01:07
I know that well. 00:01:13
When when a developer developer wants to come in and build a building, they have, they fill out the appropriate applications and 00:01:15
so forth. It's reviewed into the process and it arrives here at the, you know, with the Commission here to be considered. 00:01:22
I I had a petition. 00:01:30
Asking for some, you know, citizen. 00:01:33
Sponsor or citizen originated request of a city there's a traffic calming procedure head of the streets I I followed that 00:01:36
procedure and submitted it all but I I don't I don't see a process I can't seem to figure out the process is that gets it from 00:01:44
that point to you guys for consideration. So how does that work I mean what what do I I've been I've been talking to city people 00:01:51
I've I've not you know just just let it drop And so I've talked and seen some very helpful for example. 00:01:58
Others have to. What's the process? 00:02:06
That will get that traffic coming up application up here for consideration before the Planning Commission. 00:02:08
It's a good question. 00:02:20
Morgan, do you wanna? 00:02:21
Sure. It it deals with public right away. So that would go to the City Council directly. Yeah, it would go to City Council, I mean 00:02:23
if the Planning Commission would like would like to review it, but the the City Council would be the the board as the authority to 00:02:30
make decisions in the public right away. So let me rephrase the question, what's the process that gets it to the City Council? 00:02:36
And we're happy to talk to you after I I I don't, I don't know I'm not I'm not over that that application David. So if you want to 00:02:45
talk to staff you've got some more I can say the scenes was very helpful. I was just looking for all help I can get David is this. 00:02:51
So this is in relation to the you you came before I talked about on Holdaway road sacrificing. 00:02:58
Proposal for the bicycle Blvd. Yes, so in Morgan, I mean I would be fine to have it on our agenda too as Planning Commission. 00:03:05
For us to put it on the agenda here, you got a plan of course you'd like to see it. You guys can provide a recommendation if you 00:03:16
want, but it's with public right away. It's always going to be the City Council shrimp that that that would make that decision. So 00:03:21
if you guys would like to see it, we're happy to to bring it to you. I I would ask and see him to to comment on it if you want, 00:03:25
yeah. 00:03:29
So. 00:03:36
In regards to fab calming applications in general, typically when they're filled out and they're given, they're given their, 00:03:39
their, their reviews. Again, it depends depending on the type of application. For example, like it's a request for a request for a 00:03:46
reduced speed limit. Then with that being said, the city will conduct a will conduct an analysis depending on the type of analysis 00:03:53
is kind of determined on the situation and then. 00:04:00
At times. 00:04:08
The. 00:04:10
Before again, another jurisdiction as well. Typically sometimes if it comes down, if it comes down to where no action is required, 00:04:13
but we we study and there's a determination and no action, we sent a letter of to the applicant. 00:04:21
Stating that after after our evaluation that note we determined no actions required and that applicant actually has the 00:04:29
opportunity to bring it forth for an over contested and bring it forth to the great State Council. If they wanted to bring it to 00:04:36
Planning Commission, they can bring it to the Planning Commission. If there is actions to be taken like for example with emissil 00:04:44
arrays a specific application. We've kind of determined some steps to appropriate steps for some actions to be done. 00:04:51
And then if it's something to do specifically for a speed limit. 00:04:59
That is actually like that. I don't believe that goes through Planning Commission at all. That goes that that goes to represent 00:05:05
council for making those postings and then any kind of it requires. 00:05:10
If it requires, I just use this as the list examples. I guess speed hump or speed table then something like that, depending on if 00:05:16
it doesn't require any, If it requires additional budgeting budget like funding, then we're going to City Council if there is no 00:05:23
need for funding for that. 00:05:29
Typically it would be taken care of without City Council action on. It really depends on the what the actions would be required 00:05:36
on. 00:05:42
What the specific situation is, if it's a something to do specifically with a zoning type thing or even like a reclassification, 00:05:52
then that's something that's you know, I work, we work, we work with work with communities development director. 00:06:00
Determine whether it's appropriate to take it to the Planning Commission or not. 00:06:08
It's again it's a lots of different options depending on the situation, so it sounds like depending on what the what the proposed 00:06:12
traffic calming measures would be would dictate what is the best path exactly. 00:06:19
So again, just as the Planning Commission, we're happy to put it on the agenda if it's helpful. 00:06:28
So we're happy to bring it to you for your review if you'd like to see it. 00:07:05
So some of these lots don't necessarily have to find frontage that's planted, they're kind of grandfathered in. So if we went the 00:07:40
Planning Commission route? 00:07:44
Difficulties with calling it that, so happy to call it Heritage Bike Way or something like that or whatever. 00:08:21
The name is as important as is getting it done. 00:08:28
It's it's it's a great, the great asset to the city to have the bike way be great, but on top of that it's a great safety issue. 00:08:31
And it's one that hasn't been addressed for many years and we've been trying different routes and I think this is probably the one 00:08:39
that we most acceptable to most members of the city and in fact when I run around to get things signatures from the community. 00:08:46
85% of the of the neighborhood signed, yes. 00:08:53
I had one I won. No, but we expected that because he just piece of man's there. 00:08:59
So David I think we'll just so we can kind of can move it. I, I we we'd be happy to review it as the Planning Commission. So I 00:09:06
guess just you know after we must talk with Morgan determine what's the best course to get what you put together to get it 00:09:12
reviewed. I think it would be we'd be happy with you if if it's the best courses take a straight City Council. I mean it's fine 00:09:17
too but we'd be happy to put on the agenda and talk about it. 00:09:23
Yeah, it was not having a process. That's why I came here. And I also want to again say thank you in the scene who's been working 00:09:29
with us on this. 00:09:33
Any other comments from the public? 00:09:38
Please come up and state your name. 00:09:41
Carrie Hottie, resident for the record I agree with him, but different topic. A surveyor came out and was surveying the bike path 00:09:44
that's South of the the school on Geneva Rd. Not in Geneva. I've lived here too long on Center St. What's what's the name of that 00:09:53
school? The Vineyard Elementary, Trail side. Freedom. Franklin. Franklin. Franklin. The bike path S Franklin. Do you have a status 00:10:01
or update on that? Someone who's out surveying on the backpack? I do not. Is that something? 00:10:10
The scene when do we have a staff update on that? 00:10:19
Serving for a bypassing that subdivision. 00:10:22
Bike path that runs East West. 00:10:26
I'm gonna pull up a map, make sure I'm talking about the same one. It goes from the, it goes from the. 00:10:28
Why don't we get with him? Everything has to be on the record and if we get into a dialogue on specific items, it has to be an 00:10:35
under state code has to be agendized. 00:10:39
Public comment If if a resident asks to look into the summer, we can do that and then if you want it back on the agenda, we can. 00:10:44
But we we run afoul of the open meetings law if we get too deep and they have to be agendized on them. So we're happy to look into 00:10:51
it and get an answer. Just get the location that the northwest corner of the of the soccer park, the the lakeside complex, the 00:10:58
north, the northwest corner, it runs east West. So that's the bike path referring to the temple bike path. 00:11:05
Yeah, I don't, I don't, we don't have an update for you, but we can look for it after you know? 00:11:13
Thank you. 00:11:19
Any other comments from the public? 00:11:21
OK. 00:11:26
Go back there again here. 00:11:27
OK, so minutes review and approval. We have minutes from November 17th, December 1st and February 2nd. 00:11:30
The Commission Have you guys had a chance to look at those? Do we have? Yeah, I had a chance to review. If no one has any 00:11:39
objections, I'd like to make a motion to approve those minutes as stated. Yeah, go ahead real quick. On the February 2nd, was I 00:11:45
still the chair? I was the vice chair, Acting just acting chair. I was acting chair. I don't know. Let's switch over in November. 00:11:51
Was that when you guys? 00:11:57
January meeting, so you were just acting Chairman. I was just acting, OK, I can make that change in the in the minutes. OK. Is 00:12:03
that the only that's OK, right. So thanks for that. With that noted change, I motion to approve the minutes. I'll second. 00:12:10
I approved, all right. 00:12:18
Thank you. OK, All right, so let's move on to our business items. Item 4.1, Public Hearing Site Plan and Conditional Use Permit 00:12:24
for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is seeking approval of a commissioning permit and site plan for a place of 00:12:33
assembly located at 22212 N 220 W Parcel number 419140058. The property is in the Hampton subdivision zone, SFD. 00:12:42
15,000 before we get into this real quick, Didn't we approve this like two years ago? 00:12:52
It was, yes, there was continued. 00:12:58
Is this been the third time or it's the kind of thing where it gets, it gets reviewed, approved, the church does nothing and so 00:13:02
and everyone wants the church there. So it's kind of thing we're like you got to move on and then the application expires then 00:13:08
they come back. So we're hoping they told us they are going to move forward with it so. 00:13:14
You know, is that truly? 00:13:21
OK, just wanted to make sure it wasn't crazy. 00:13:24
My name is Brian Maya Perez. I'm a city planner here. 00:13:29
Yeah, so let's get started. The map on the screen shows the location of where the church will be, so where it says Church of Jesus 00:13:34
Christ. 00:13:38
It's in the Hamptons, just West of Vineyard Grove Park. 00:13:44
The applicant, Leif Harris, is here representing PhD Architects, the architectural firm that's doing the work for the church. The 00:13:48
actual address is going to be 171 W, 240 N, and it is in the Water's Edge Special Zoning District. 00:13:55
Single family dwellings 1515 thousand square feet and above. 00:14:05
So 1 Judge District aims to provide a range of housing located within a network of open space, parks and trails. It also aims to 00:14:09
provide several gathering places along Utah Lake shoreline. The property will be developed over the coming year and will help 00:14:15
provide social benefits and community resources for future residents. 00:14:21
I'm going to put throughout the picture of the project. 00:14:29
OK, there we go. 00:14:36
I'll show some renderings in a bit. 00:14:37
I wanted to talk about project. Some features about the project. It complements the neighborhood well aesthetically and through 00:14:42
its style. Through appropriate finishes, coloring, colors, materials and quality. It promotes easy access by walking and biking, 00:14:48
has an attractive water wise landscaping design. 00:14:54
Just to give a few notes on the architecture, it has a stone veneer, has some aluminum finishing, some brick detailing, panel 00:15:05
boarding, and each side of the building has been equally architecturally designed. 00:15:11
It's it's only 167,000 square foot lots. That's approximately 3.84 acres. The building itself is 20, is about 20,500 square feet 00:15:19
or 12% of the entire lot coverage. 00:15:26
The height of the building is about 70 feet with the steeple. 00:15:34
And 30 in about 33 feet without the seeple. Usually anything over 35 feet is is over our height limit, but there's an exception in 00:15:40
the zoning code for for steeples on churches specifically so they can go that high. 00:15:46
The project also has a 190 square foot storage building in the rear that is 12 foot tall, a six foot tall masonry dumpster 00:15:55
enclosure and 1800 square foot large pavilion, each building being proposed as consistent with the architecture of the primary 00:16:01
building. 00:16:08
There's a 3000, three, 300 square foot area that's going to be used as a reclaim and that can be used for public gathering space. 00:16:15
In total there are 281 parking spaces, 788 spaces to then accessible spaces, 8 bike stalls and 25.95% of the site is landscaping, 00:16:25
so in this in this zone the requirement is 20% so they're they're meeting that requirement and exceeding over 5 percent. 54% of 00:16:34
the site is in permeable surface so they're just shy of the 55% maximum. 00:16:43
And. 00:16:55
The light poles that are proposed on the site are all 18 feet tall and they're all hooded and down lit. 00:16:56
To talk about the interior of the building, there's going to be 304 seats in the main seating area or the Chapel. The Chapel will 00:17:06
include a rostrum, which is an elevated seating area with an organ chamber. There will be a Cultural Center that is often used as 00:17:12
a gym. They'll have a serving area, material center, family rooms, mother rooms, several offices and classrooms and restrooms that 00:17:19
are all 88 accessible. 00:17:25
Basically, in a nutshell, staff is ready to recommend approval of the. 00:17:33
Of the site plan and conditional use permit, but we do have a few concerns that we will have Mr. Lee Harris addressed here in a 00:17:39
minute we can come to the stand. Our first concern is that parts of the parking lot along the perimeter, I, I I've been the staff 00:17:45
that reviewed this, I feel like parts of the perimeter of the parking lot are not adequately lit based on the photometric plan. 00:17:51
There's a lot of it. There's some areas especially in the western parking lot, you know both the site plan. So you can see what 00:17:58
I'm referencing. 00:18:04
So here's the overall site plan. There are parts of the western parking lot that in the in the fundamental plan showed 0. 00:18:16
And maybe I'm just interpreting the photometric planning correctly. Also, on the southern part, there's also what appears to be 00:18:26
not enough illumination. And so I'm I'm concerned. I'd like to see that all of the parts of the of the parking lot are well lit, 00:18:33
just because I know the church often has activities, activities at night. 00:18:40
The other part is that there's in the entrances to the parking lot, So this western entrance here and then the northern entrance 00:19:19
here, We just wanted to make sure the code calls out that the, the concrete that is so the pedestrian walkway that intersects 00:19:26
driveways, they need to be clearly differentiated as as walkways for pedestrians. And so we just want to make sure that that is 00:19:33
being met, that part of the code is being met. They show what's the wording in the plans. 00:19:41
So the wording in the plan, there's a label that says new concrete drive approach and So what does new concrete mean? Is is going 00:19:48
to be a different pattern? Is it going to be? 00:19:53
Is there gonna be any paint on there? We just want an explanation of that because we always think about pedestrians first and make 00:19:59
sure that they're not being put into any zones of conflict with the vehicles. 00:20:05
The other thing is that in this northwest corner of the site. 00:20:12
So we just. 00:20:17
Received some new standards for. 00:20:19
Crosswalks and crosswalks leading into intersections from U dot. We want to make sure that these. 00:20:23
Diagonal ramp, pedestrian crossing landings at the northwest corner are changed the directional ramps and maybe in a minute or so 00:20:30
I I can it must seem if you have any sort of thing that you want to say to the directional grants. This was based on your comment. 00:20:38
In the in the review, I think it has to do. I want to explain, yeah, I can talk a little bit, yeah. 00:20:47
So it's always it's always better that crosswalks lead to another crosswalk or to a safe zone for pedestrians. As you can see here 00:20:53
in the corner, it's leading into the middle of the intersection where there is no pedestrian facility technically. And so if we 00:21:01
can get a proper alignment for these at the corners to where they're leading into crosswalks or safe delineated spaces for 00:21:08
pedestrians, that would be our ideal scenario. 00:21:16
My colleague Brian Perez is articulated that perfectly. 00:21:25
Thanks. 00:21:30
OK, um. 00:21:32
Attendance from our water manager. He wants to make sure that the applicant is avoiding any deep rooted vegetation along any water 00:21:34
meters or fire hydrants. So those are all labeled on the landscape plan. So that's just a note for the. 00:21:42
For the applicant and my final note is that an exterior wall signage, so I'll go to the elevations Here there's two, there's one, 00:21:51
there's one. 00:21:57
Two, I'm sorry, two exterior elevation signs or exterior wall signs. I should say A1 that says the Church of Jesus Christ of 00:22:04
Latter Day Saints and then another one that says it's a it's a number for the address. I'll have to double check if the numbers 00:22:10
need a sign permit, but for sure the the sign where it says Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is going to need a signed 00:22:15
permit. I I don't believe the address does. 00:22:21
OK. Yeah. Thank you, Morgan. So, yeah, we won't give you any trouble about that one, but the church sign, yes. 00:22:27
So those are my comments. 00:22:35
The Planning Commission had a had a couple days to review the the plan set that was submitted for the agenda. If you guys have any 00:22:38
questions, Mr. Harris is here to to answer any of these questions. So Life, could you come up to the standard and introduce 00:22:43
yourself? Thank you. 00:22:48
And feel free to change that. Can you do whatever? 00:22:56
So I'm Leif Harris. I'm the owner of PhD Architects and. 00:23:00
So I'm happy to answer any questions. Should I just go over the items that you asked about? OK, so the the church typically 00:23:04
doesn't by their just their standard plans doesn't put lighting and meaning parking lot lighting except right around the building. 00:23:12
This plan we added lighting on the east side on the second set of islands in order to I can show you where that is if I can. 00:23:19
Find the exact sheet here. 00:23:29
I'm gonna have to go clear clear to the end, aren't I? 00:23:32
You actually photometric planner, but Oh yeah the other end. So the the photometric plan is not going to help. It's the things are 00:23:37
too tiny to to read on this screen but. 00:23:42
So typically we don't. We don't put them. I mean ruin this aren't I? Here you need to you need to get a mouse up here. That's the 00:23:49
only no, I'm just bugging you. So normally normally we put, we put don't put any. 00:23:57
Rights out in the the islands. Thanks. 00:24:06
Would fill up. So as far as the church is concerned it's it meets their their lighting standards and they don't have concern about 00:24:44
the risk of of it being too dark. That said, if if the ordinance requires that we're happy to put in what's required more lighting 00:24:51
there and it it may be something I would suggest exploring maybe like a bollard lighting especially if you're going to be near a 00:24:58
residential homes you know keep it low but at least enough so that you know someone parks the back parking lot there you know. 00:25:06
They're able to see is some level, is there, is there a lighting level that's in the ordinance that's required or is it just a 00:25:14
general? 00:25:17
We don't we don't have aluminums. It's it's yeah it's kind of I mean somewhat opinion based. We need to like make that a little 00:25:22
bit more of a standard but it's supposed to be lit so, so so you can see yeah and it's and it's not lit currently so that if the 00:25:28
churches standard doesn't meet the ordinance, will meet the ordinance. 00:25:34
As far as the the parking at the OR the the sidewalk right in front of the Dr. approaches, that is typically just sidewalk 00:25:42
material. If the ordinance requires us to put in a colored or stacked concrete will do that. We just will make the ordinance. Is 00:25:48
there anywhere else in Vineyard that does that or any other do the schools do that do? 00:25:55
As well as differentiated crosswalks, OK, I'm just trying to think of. 00:26:03
Trying to think of the other church, the one on Foreigner South as well this. 00:26:09
Does it differentiate at all? Because I know it goes asphalt to the sidewalk and then the sidewalk just continues till it's 00:26:14
asphalt. One other thing that's unique about this, correct me if I'm wrong, but that N line there, that's the the trail 00:26:19
essentially connects in to that and it's a wider sidewalk that's not just like a traditional sidewalk along the north, the North 00:26:24
End. 00:26:29
Yes, I believe, I mean even if it's painted or something like that just to show that it's, I mean it, it's intended to be a more 00:26:37
used to trail away. It's it's not asphalt like the other one, but there's an asphalt one that leads right up to it. 00:26:43
And again, typically this is the same, I can't see from where I'm standing, but typically the stop parts would be placed along 00:26:52
those areas current further back. So when the car approaches that there would be in the parking lot, there would be a stop a stop 00:26:59
bar to allow at the at the stop sign to allow cars not to encroach too close to the pedestrian trail or even the sidewalk on the 00:27:05
West side. To ensure that you know when cars come by that they actually are able to provide their pedestrians to safe buffer to 00:27:12
cross. 00:27:19
So is there an asphalt trail that comes up to this property? It's a it's a Portland concrete trail that goes on on the north side. 00:27:26
Through the homes. Sorry. Yeah, it was going to be *******. But they changed it. 00:27:35
This is there a perimeter fence on the side installed on the east, on the east side and the South side. We were planning to do a 00:27:43
fence but not on the on the road sides at all. 00:27:48
Oh yeah, sure. 00:27:56
I believe so, yeah. Yes, I believe that that's true. Are you allowing gates? Typically the church does not allow gates because 00:28:00
there's liability issues with gates, so. 00:28:05
If that's required, we would entertain what's required but. 00:28:13
The diagonal ramp at the pedestrian crossing, we were happy to change it out if it's required. We would normally leave it if 00:28:17
that's a requirement will be that and then the deep rooted vegetable question will be that comply with that as well. Is there any 00:28:21
other issues you'd like me to address, Brian? 00:28:26
I don't know about the. 00:28:34
Something wiping out here. 00:28:36
Brian, you got you got to be on the record for next one. 00:28:40
As is Brian again, we have spoken to Mike Bailey who who is the person who filled out the application. There is a trail as you 00:28:43
mentioned on the north side and part of the trail comes into the property by 5 feet. And so we just expressed a concern that we 00:28:51
wanted to make sure that there that that easement. 00:28:59
That easement was put in place and there there is an easement put in place for that show and it is managed by the city. 00:29:08
Um, is there any other concern with that so? 00:29:13
That was something we wanted to clarify with the applicant so. 00:29:18
So that's still a question if that is an easement or it is we did find out that there is an easement. 00:29:21
I have not addressed that, so I'm not sure. Did you you're saying you did not find that out yet? 00:29:27
Ours would be, I'm sorry, just to kind of clarify was talking about this along the North side. We just want to make sure that it's 00:29:34
recorded properly in the plot that that is. 00:29:39
You know is. 00:29:45
Is it able to paint as I was maintained by the city? That's easy. That goes across and it's like for public use as well. So 00:29:47
because the portion of that trail doesn't do part of its in the public right of way, part of its into the Church of fiber 00:29:53
property, but that portion of it into the private property. 00:29:59
Process, you know is for public use and maintained by the city. Yes, I think this is the, this is either the utility or the 00:30:07
drainage map and it does call out if I put trail easement, yeah. And then also the one thing we know there was there was a 00:30:13
redundancy about 5 foot and eight foot. 00:30:19
So maybe just wanna make sure that we take that feeling out to clean up that pot. 00:30:26
What is that? Is that possibly the overlap line? So it's five feet on private property, 3 feet within the right of way? 00:30:31
Like being the planner who reviewed it, do you feel comfortable with with it? So do do you want a specific condition to ensure 00:30:41
that happens or does that? Is this exhibit enough? Well once it gets approved, is is that going to be enough to satisfy the the 00:30:46
easement requirements for the full walkway? 00:30:51
And I feel like it's enough, but I mean if it doesn't hurt, we just make sure that it's stated as a condition of approval that the 00:30:58
easement is is guaranteed to be in the city's name to to to accommodate the, you know, the the trail on the private property. You 00:31:04
can probably write it general enough so then we can just work with them. I just don't want it to be, you know some wording issue. 00:31:11
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, but I think this, yeah, let's just do that as an as an additional condition. 00:31:18
I have one more question about the lighting because obviously you're backing directly up to certain properties. We don't know what 00:31:26
the direct, the actual lumens are going to be. Is there a way just to verify it's it's not going to be an excessive amount that 00:31:31
bothers the property owners? 00:31:36
So this is Leif Harris again the. 00:31:42
We have a. 00:31:47
Already examined the lumens on the east side, they're low enough that they're not going to be glaring into the neighbors on the 00:31:48
South side. It's there's not a very long far distance. So I don't think we would want to add any on that side. So the only place 00:31:54
we would entertain adding would be on the West side which busts the street. In that case it would we could put it in the islands 00:32:00
and then it won't be really right next to the street and it's going to be far away from anything across the street. So I think 00:32:06
we'd be in the same range of. 00:32:13
Lumens that we already have on the on the property, OK. 00:32:19
We can check too if there is going to be a street light there, maybe afterwards because we don't want to like if there's already 00:32:22
street light, there's no reason to duplicate light on the private property. So now let's let's just look at that. I mean if the 00:32:28
intent of having it somewhat visible is is met, I think we're good and is there building lighting on that South side then it's on 00:32:33
the exterior. 00:32:38
Typically we have lights at the entrances and there is. Let's see if I can find our plan here. 00:32:45
So we we don't have any entrances on this South side. So there aren't any building lights. We do have pool pool lights, right? One 00:32:58
pool light right there. 00:33:02
And then we'd have it lights at both of these entrances, which are close to the South side. Because there aren't any parking or 00:33:08
any entrances on that South area, people won't typically park there, and they'll park on the sides if they're if the parking lot 00:33:12
is not full. 00:33:17
Are there going to be gates to the parking lot? 00:33:24
On in the fence or just to prevent parking outside of install them unless the local people park there for some other reason during 00:33:28
non church use such as a parking chair which a lot of people try to do that. So I would not expect that they would put them in. We 00:33:35
won't be putting them in as part of the project but they do sometimes do that after if there's problems with people. I would just 00:33:43
anticipate and we have the the summer celebrations lots of parking, I can see there be some. 00:33:50
Some use, but I mean that's not a use like that is usually not gonna make them put the gates up. 00:33:58
An observation that I have about some of the earliest chapels that are in residential areas is that the parking lot is used for a 00:34:05
cut through by people who live there and don't want to go all the way around the block and that can cause some safety issues, the 00:34:13
way they come out onto the streets and so on. And is there anything? I'm just trying to visualize this. I know there's a street on 00:34:22
the upper side. What is that north or what direction is that North is that? Yeah. And I and on the other entrance to the property. 00:34:30
There appears to be a street there as well. 00:34:39
My only recommendation is you put a BBQ snippet for the community somewhere in there. 00:35:29
I'll call the church and ask him about that and let you know. 00:35:36
Because one of the things that the last time you guys came through, there was some concern about lighting from the pavilion that 00:36:15
would, you know, provide light pollution to the neighbors adjacent to it, so. 00:36:20
Yeah. So I I guess that that's like how is it designed? Is it just the Castor pointing down? Is it is it usually is more like 00:36:27
these lights where it's mounted to the deck on the bottom And so it would only really shine down with a little bit of bleak to the 00:36:33
side, but not much. OK. So they're they're down downward facing then, Yeah, OK. 00:36:39
And the only area of grass in this landscaping area is. 00:36:48
That S part of South. 00:36:53
Yeah, You're welcome. 00:37:02
So they could see it. I think it's on page 17. 00:37:06
Nope. 00:37:12
Of one off, Yeah. 00:37:23
Yeah, so this is a. 00:37:25
Very water wise. They're escaped landscape design with rocks, mulch and. 00:37:27
The items are listed here on the side, yeah. 00:37:36
Rocks that would be bigger than little kids control. 00:37:40
Just just big enough, yeah. 00:37:45
We actually make them slingshot size, so they're very flexible. 00:37:48
Yeah. 00:37:53
If we don't have any other questions right now from the Commission, we can open this up to the public. So if there's a motion to 00:37:55
make this up, open a public hearing, so moved. 00:38:00
All in favor? Aye. OK. So if there's any members of the public who wish to make any comments or questions based on this agenda 00:38:07
item, you can come up to the podium. So I actually, I've, I've received a few. This is cash fancy. 00:38:15
Just some neighbors on the the border, the property to the east. 00:38:24
They just have some questions about how that fence is going to be installed because I believe they're in the process of putting up 00:38:27
their own fence. So they just wanted to hear a little bit more detail as to how that fence is going to look. I believe that there 00:38:33
might even be some like grade change between the Eastern properties and this property too. So can you just speak to that a little 00:38:38
bit? 00:38:44
So I'm I'm not familiar with that particular issue but in the past we've worked out with the the neighboring fence owners. We 00:38:50
would normally request that we can install our own fence and that they just don't put one up until this one's in. And we would 00:38:57
work out the grade with them to to ensure that there's not a big difference. And if there if there's a big difference it's not 00:39:04
something we can overcome. We would install a retaining wall so that would it would work if the grade. 00:39:12
That it. 00:39:25
I mean, I've only got an e-mail about it, so I don't know if that does answer the question or not. 00:39:28
Right, and the fence is 6 feet in height and brown. They did want to do a retaining wall without require any kind of. 00:39:33
If they needed to, would that require any kind of amendment? 00:39:42
I think they would just have to go through a building permit, open as required. 00:39:47
If it's over 4 feet 13 more than it would require a building permit, right. So maybe a follow up question then on that is gets the 00:39:54
timing, you know for some of these residents trying to decide whether to build a fence is how long might they be waiting. So I 00:40:00
don't know if you've got any information as we discussed before, we we have seen some plans for this before that have not been 00:40:06
executed. So it might be important for those in order to know that. 00:40:12
The, the plan was to have already bid this and get it under construction by this date. But they the landscaping plan is kind of a 00:40:18
pilot project. They're trying to decide whether to move more towards a really water wise plan or not. And it's taken a lot, a lot 00:40:25
more review time. So we are a little bit delayed, but I don't anticipate that it will be more than a year before the fence would 00:40:31
be installed. The intent is you're moving on this project, right. We would we would expect by next spring sometime. 00:40:38
According to what we've been told recently, it would be done OK. 00:40:45
Great. I had one more question. This is for the storm water with elevation change. I assume the plan that there's not going to be 00:40:48
runoff issues or anything for neighbors that have elevation lower than that. I think the state law requires that we maintain all 00:40:55
our own and discharge it to whatever the city requires that we don't bleed over to any neighbors. So we design it that way 00:41:02
typically in business in the door, the plans to actually do have a cut detail showing that any kind of graduation where between 00:41:08
the neighbors. 00:41:15
And the church, excuse me, where there's a small Swale and to allow the water this way into the ground. Thank you. 00:41:22
There any other questions from the public? 00:41:31
OK, then. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? 00:41:34
To close the public hearing a second all in favor, aye? 00:41:38
OK. Do you have anything? Yeah, but I'd just like to read the conditions of approval if we're ready. 00:41:43
Yeah. I mean, are there any other questions or? 00:41:49
OK. Go ahead, Tim. Brian, yeah. 00:41:52
So conditions for approval are that the area that the areas of the parking lot are adequately lit as we discussed, especially the 00:41:55
western part of the of the of the parking lot of the property that all pressing walkways that cross driveways shall be adequately 00:42:01
differentiated. 00:42:08
The applicant shall change the diagonal ramp, pedestrian crossing, landing at the northwest corner of the property at 220 W and 00:42:15
240 N to directional grants. 00:42:20
The applicant shall avoided deeply vegetation around meters and fire hydrants and all exterior wall signage shall be reviewed 00:42:26
through a separate sign permit. Am I missing? 00:42:31
1. 00:42:38
Oh yeah, the easement. Yes, I've got a condition written and I could read in the record and change it if you want, but it's and 00:42:40
these will be provided for the trail on the north side of the of the property to accommodate any portion of the trail located 00:42:45
within the applicants property. 00:42:50
Awesome. Could I ask a question to clarify, when we say adequately differentiated on a sidewalk crossing, do we have that defined 00:42:55
in our code? We do. There's a code section in the staff report. 00:43:01
Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's. Clearly, it's pretty detailed. It's got it per the code. 00:43:07
OK, do I have a motion? 00:43:15
Yeah, I'm going to approve the site plan and Conditional use permit as required by Mike Davey with Bhd. 00:43:18
Architects with the proposed conditions. 00:43:25
As mentioned. 00:43:29
2nd. That. 00:43:32
All in favor, aye. 00:43:34
Motion passes. 00:43:37
Thank you. Thank you, Bernard. Thank you. You're welcome. 00:43:38
All right. 00:43:43
OK, agenda item 5.1 is a work session. So that means we will not be taking any action on any items that we have a traffic impact 00:43:46
study training from Ryan Hales with Hales Engineering to give us some an educational seminar regarding uses and benefits of 00:43:52
traffic impact studies. 00:43:57
So come on up, Ryan. Unless Brian Morgan, are you guys providing an introduction? Nope. Miss you. 00:44:06
OK, this is the scene in the door. I would like to interview Sir Mr. Whitehouse who is a not only a traffic engineer but youth SLA 00:44:15
certified planner. 00:44:20
So. 00:44:26
This is the important stuff for us, for people to understand. It's a lot to complicate things, going to a detailed report and that 00:44:30
gets turned out. And it's present to planning commissions and city councils to make educated decisions. 00:44:37
You said two hours. If there's future. If there's future training you guys want on a specific topic, let us know. 00:45:17
Next morning, I want this to be really informant. So I hope you'll apologize for me making it more informal as we go. We did this 00:45:23
presentation down at the city engineers conference. So all the city engineers gather, they have their meetings just like a group 00:45:29
would. And so we presented this talking about traffic in taxes and the same thought and thought it might be good for you guys to 00:45:34
go through it. Josh Gibbons would have been here with me. He's he's out this evening. He actually just got back from Disneyland. 00:45:40
Lucky guy. 00:45:46
So he is not here tonight. He is attending another meeting. 00:45:53
But I just want to go through a couple of things real quick. We've done over 2000 studies in the area, Utah area. 00:45:57
We do have, we are doing studies outside and various other areas, but a lot of that is traffic impact. So we work. 00:46:04
And really what this is, is a traffic impact study is kind of where you go from the transportation Master plan down to the PACE 00:46:10
plant level. 00:46:14
And it's something that's really important because what we're trying to do is bridge the gap between your transportation Master 00:46:19
plan. You've all seen the transportation master plan. We identify roadways that that need to be upgraded. We might have a three 00:46:24
lane Rd. that needs to be classified as a major collector and that would be a future improvement. So you look at moving from 2:00 00:46:29
to 3:00 lanes or three to five lanes, whatever that might be. 00:46:34
But a traffic impact study really comes down and narrows that focus down. 00:47:12
And brings us down to about 1000 feet. So when you're you're coming in on final approach and you're you're about to land, you can 00:47:16
look out the window, you can see the cars pulling out sometimes, you can see the lights turning red, green, whatever it might be. 00:47:21
And you might be looking out at the pocket saying OK, that turn pocket. 00:47:27
Well, that's a it's short because cars are spilling out of it. That's called Q spillover. 00:47:32
And so that's really what it's about kind of between your transportation master plan, your traffic impact study. 00:47:37
We do a lot of traffic study review for you doubt anytime there's a warrant study anywhere in the state, we end up reviewing that 00:47:44
meaning a traffic signal. So if Masin called Doug Bassett over at Region 3 and said. 00:47:50
So we look at that, we look at the United standards and we give that final stamp of approval that that goes for crosswalk studies, 00:48:30
speed reduction studies, speed increases. 00:48:35
And then passing zones and then corridor studies is one of the new things that they've started doing. 00:48:40
This graphic may not do it well. I apologize. We've got a PDF version that we're rolling through right now instead of the the 00:48:47
PowerPoint. 00:48:50
But you all have a general plan. 00:48:55
Really, the transportation element starts from the General plan. You've probably all been a part of that, or at least seen the 00:48:57
general plan. 00:49:00
And you look at the land uses, those land uses help drive transportation, and transportation drives land use. It's a cyclical 00:49:03
process. 00:49:08
So typically you build A2 lane Rd. as an example. 00:49:13
Somebody comes in and says, gosh, you know what, I'd like to develop in this area and this is what I want to develop. So you look 00:49:17
at that in your general plan and you say, does that fit? 00:49:20
Is that the context of what we want? Do we want residential Missouri or do we want commercial? 00:49:25
So once you decide if it's commercial that you do want, you start looking into the future and saying, OK, what does that mean? 00:49:29
This two Lane Rd. can't stay A2 Lane Rd. forever. 00:49:33
And that's where the traffic impact study helps out. 00:49:38
We might look at that intersection and say instead of being just a two lane Rd. flying at 30,000 feet or 10,000 feet. 00:49:41
We're now fine at 1000 feet. We know we need to change the control of the intersection. We can't have it as a free for all. It 00:49:49
can't be no controlled intersection. A2 way stop may not be adequate. We might have to go to a four way stop, a roundabout or a 00:49:54
traffic signal. 00:49:58
And so we start really drilling down from the general plan through the Transportation Master Plan and into a traffic impact city 00:50:03
and we bring all of those components together. 00:50:07
So when the traffic impact studies done? 00:50:13
We're looking at what is Utah doing, You know, what are their long range plans, what kind of improvements do they have? 00:50:15
In their long range plan, what does the Mountain Land Association of Governments, what do they do in their long range plan? Do 00:50:22
they have any roads coming? What is the city's transportation master plan look like and what is this development going to do to 00:50:28
the area? And so we start bringing all of that information together to build this traffic impact study. 00:50:33
And then we identify what type, what types of improvements would be necessary. 00:50:40
There's a low level traffic impact study, I'll call that a trip generation study. You dot is doing a few more of these now. When 00:50:45
they have a very low impact they'll look at it and say just give us a trip Gen. study so we can identify whether we need turn 00:50:51
pockets, whether we need a right turn or a left turn deceleration lane, do we need acceleration lanes. 00:50:58
So they use that trip generation to do that. 00:51:04
Some of you that work in the field and are familiar with it, if there's if there's something going on a smaller project, let's say 00:51:09
it's five residential lots. 00:51:13
Probably not going to do anything. 00:51:17
You wouldn't really need to study that in any kind of detail. 00:51:19
But when you get into a traffic impact study, usually you're looking at a larger project. Maybe it's a mix of uses. It's either a 00:51:23
vertical mixed-use or a horizontal mixed-use laid out. 00:51:27
Or it could be a large residential subdivision. You just want to know what the access points look like. 00:51:31
And how traffic flows. 00:51:36
Traffic study elements. 00:51:40
We lost a little bit of sorry. 00:51:42
I think we lost a little bit going to the PDF. 00:51:44
That's OK. That's OK. We'll just. 00:51:46
I'm going to board you the chairs if I go through all these slides anyway, right? 00:51:49
So one of the basis of beginnings for any traffic study is to look at the counts. We really need to know kind of a, you know, 00:51:54
floating on the ground and understand what the traffic is doing. 00:51:58
And then we make an evaluation of that when we go out to do those counts. 00:52:03
The Standard Time that we count is usually a Tuesday, Wednesday, or a Thursday of a weekday, or a Saturday if it's a large 00:52:07
commercial project. 00:52:11
And so as you review these as planning Commissioners and I sat on a Planning Commission for four years. 00:52:15
It was great, I loved it, but it was a long time ago. 00:52:21
And. 00:52:25
I wish I could still do more of that. 00:52:27
But when you review these traffic impact studies, you can go back and look. They should not have been counted on Monday or Friday 00:52:29
because typically those are different days, standardized days again Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. 00:52:35
We usually count in the morning. We try and capture the peak morning period and we try and capture the peak evening period. 00:52:41
If you're on State Street in Sandy City as an example, and you're counting traffic volumes. 00:52:47
7 to 9 you're probably going to capture the peak out load when people are leaving for work, so you might have a heavy flow of 00:52:54
traffic going out towards the freeway. 00:52:58
At night, between 4:00 and 6:00, you're gonna see a peak flow coming back in. 00:53:02
When we worked on Rio Tinto Stadium, we had a different peak. We had a peak for a game time. A peak was usually later in the 00:53:07
evening. The stadium loads in at about 7:00 PM for a game kick, and so it's loading in between 5:00 and 6:00. 00:53:13
Or between 6:00 and 7:00, depending on what time of the year we're in. And so we look at offset peaks. If you're out in Tuola 00:53:21
County, let's say you're in downtown Tooele. They might have an earlier peak because traffic is leaving earlier. 00:53:26
In Vineyard, you're pretty much a standard peak. You're 7:00 to 9:00 and 4:00 to 6:00, so that's what you want to look for in a 00:53:32
study. 00:53:35
Saturdays we typically do a noon hour between 11 and probably 1:00 in the afternoon. Again, sometimes that can shift depending on 00:53:39
the use. 00:53:44
Average daily traffic counts. Sometimes we do an average daily traffic count rather than going to the intersection, I apologize. 00:53:50
Let me go back to the intersection journey. Can I ask a question about just about the peak while while you're on that with the the 00:53:56
university and that's going to be a major land use within our city that I would think has kind of a different peak than than your 00:54:02
standard like office hour or work day. Do you do you anticipate at some level of build out? I know you've looked at the city quite 00:54:08
a bit would our peak change. 00:54:14
Do you think is that enough of a? 00:54:21
Is that enough of A use that it would change our overall peak for our city? But that makes different than like a, you know, a 00:54:24
Linden or something like that. Yeah, that's a great question. We're doing work at UVU one time and we asked them what their peak 00:54:30
hours were and their what their peak days were and they have Monday, Wednesday, Friday classes, Tuesday, Thursday classes. 00:54:36
And they identified that their peak was on a Monday and a Wednesday and it was in the AM peak hour. So most classes starting 00:54:42
probably mid morning like 9 to 10. So what you might have is an offsetting peak, but you might find them and you'll need to look 00:54:47
at it and see where the dips are a tube count well. 00:54:53
An ADT count, and that's a glass bullet item on the sheet, is usually what we would do is we'd go out and lay tubes out, identify 00:54:59
how much traffic is there and what time of the day is that peak. 00:55:03
So you may have a different peak sometimes what we find around university. So it's more of a spread outflow, it's spread during 00:55:08
the day. 00:55:11
Great question. 00:55:16
Typically though, we go out on the first bullet and we count with a little counters. It looks like a game box. 00:55:17
And you can just push the button. You can hear audible beep, and you're counting how many cars turn left, how many go through, and 00:55:23
how many go right. And you count pedestrians. 00:55:26
And so, you know, that sounds really boring. 00:55:31
Give it to a kid like a video game and told him to go watch the traffic. 00:55:33
I'm only kidding. We don't let kids do it. But. 00:55:38
The idea behind it is that you collect actual data and then we go in and we adjust it. So right now we're coming out of COVID. 00:55:41
But we have been doing COVID adjustments for all of the projects that we've been working on. 00:55:48
It's the same thing the dot does when the dot is going out and they're looking at major roads, they're doing adjustments for COVID 00:55:52
related traffic volumes. What we found was that many of the the traffic volumes in the area, many roadways has gone down because 00:55:59
people are working from home. Now that we're starting to ease up and people are going back into the office, it's coming back up. 00:56:05
Internally, we discussed whether we would continue to do that, but we still continue to find 9 to 10% adjustments in some 00:56:13
locations and some it's, it's spot on, we're back to where we were or above. 00:56:18
Right. I wonder if there's going to be long term adjustments to that too, just because. 00:56:28
I don't know. 00:56:34
That's a tangent, but personally I think they're I still think more people come back to work in the office than they're still 00:56:36
working home. I think there'll be be some at home working burnout down the road, but but I think that because of the flexibility, 00:56:41
I wonder if that'll affect the long term numbers too, if some of that. 00:56:46
COVID. COVID adjustment may never bounce back because so many people are adjusting to working from home permanently now. Yeah, I 00:56:52
absolutely agree, Jeff. I think that's a great comment. What what it does is they have a trip generation manual. It's manually 00:56:57
published about every three or four years. They republish it. They add new data points to it. 00:57:03
And just like things, banks used to be a really big deal. You know, my my grandma and grandpa would always go to the bank. They 00:57:09
would make a drive down and make the deposit, take money out, go back and forth, you know, whatever it was. But they were down at 00:57:14
the bank all the time, it seemed like. And now we just jump online, we do our banking, we're done and we're out. 00:57:20
And it's all electronic, you know, we're paying off credit cards, doing things like that electronically. 00:57:26
I was in the audience. 00:57:33
Steven. 00:57:36
You guys are stuck for training. I'm sorry. 00:57:41
I would have loved to. 00:57:45
Now the church generation annual is something they continually update and so one of the things that you'll notice is that. 00:57:47
About every two or three years, I come out with a new version. This one just came out in November, so it's newer. But again, I 00:57:53
think, Jeff, back to your point, I think they'll go out and do some more counting and they'll find that numbers have changed. 00:57:58
Probably we've had more of a shift than we'll ever recover from. 00:58:03
I would agree with that. 00:58:09
When we talk about troops entering a site. 00:58:11
Each one of you Anthony gives you as an example, you you get in your car and you drive from your your driveway. 00:58:15
Over to the grocery store when you back out. 00:58:22
As a traffic engineer, we call that a trip. That's one trip or a trip end is probably the more appropriate way to see it. When you 00:58:25
go into the grocery store, that's a trip in. So trip out at your house, a trip in at the grocery store. When you leave the grocery 00:58:30
store, it's a trip out. When you go back to your house, it's a trip in. 00:58:34
So that's for trip ends, but if you were standing there on the roadway. 00:58:40
And let's say Christopher, you're standing on the roadway and Anthony goes driving by. You're going to see him going by the 00:58:45
grocery store and you'll see him come back. 00:58:48
So you would have counted 2 trips on the roadway. 00:58:52
But as traffic engineers were counting trip ends because we're looking at how the traffic moves left and right turn movements, and 00:58:54
we're making sure that each of the intersections can handle that amount of traffic. 00:58:59
So there's a little bit of double counting in the way that we do it. 00:59:05
But it's to be on the conservative side and to make sure the analysis is appropriate that we know when you turn left to go to the 00:59:08
grocery store and when you turn right coming back home. 00:59:13
I don't know just because I think that that we need to kind of look at that when we when we consider vinegar. 01:00:22
Yeah, no, that's a great question. What do you call the shopping center over here where the theaters are? It's called the yard. 01:00:28
It's everyone calls it that the megaplex site, but it's it's, it's called the art well and and that's what I'm going to use it as 01:00:34
an example. So I, I, I Co teach with Doctor UNF a couple classes of EU of You and we're planning to do another one this summer. 01:00:40
But. 01:00:47
Really what we're focused on, what Reid was focused on, is what happens when you go to a place like the Ark. 01:00:49
You drive in, you get out of your car, you might want to go and grab dinner. You know, maybe you're going over to Chubby's and 01:00:54
grabbing a burger, and then you're gonna walk over to the theater. Well, you've only driven in once, You've only parked once. And 01:00:59
yet when we look at these studies, you know Chubby's comes in, we're going, Well, you need 25 parking spaces because that's what 01:01:04
our code says. In the theaters, we're saying you need 200 because that's what the code says. 01:01:09
Well, the problem with that is that we're now double counting parking and so we're over parking everything. 01:01:15
So it's not only over parking, but it's trips because you've driven in once and you're visiting two sites. And so that's where 01:01:19
Reed's work has been instrumental in looking at trying to reduce strips. 01:01:24
And so as he's trying to look at how to reduce trips from an overall perspective, he's looking more at and mixed-use developments. 01:01:30
So they are going to be a great example. 01:01:37
Working on. 01:01:41
Now I can't think of the Vineyard Town Center. We did the same thing. 01:01:44
We used reviewing's equations because we didn't want to double count those trips. 01:01:47
So Anthony, again going back to your trip to the grocery store. 01:01:52
Same thing going into the to the yard. We're making sure that we're not counting Anthony parking at both places, and we're also 01:01:55
making sure that we're not counting each one of his trips. 01:01:59
A trip that's affected by the overall development because we need to account those in the right way. So it's it's about an 01:02:04
accounting order. It's almost like taking out a tally sheet and going through and saying we need to cut these in half. 01:02:11
Or 2/3 or whatever that is. 01:02:19
So it went in. Brian Bochner from the Texas Transportation Institute. 01:02:50
Started looking at it on a parallel course to reviewing. They both looked at it and said we've got to do something about this, 01:02:56
we're we're double counting the trips, we're adding too much parking, we can do this better. 01:03:01
And so there's two different methodologies. It is stuck with the Boschner side of things. 01:03:07
And reviewing stuff is becoming more prominent in circles like the EPA and those who are doing the larger mixed-use projects are 01:03:11
looking at it more favorably. 01:03:16
Because it's a better accounting system for the way things are done. So I think it will come around eventually, but they're not 01:03:22
there yet. 01:03:25
I have a question. 01:03:29
So it's interesting to me that. 01:03:32
It seems very focused on automobile traffic, right? Yet this trip manual doesn't show an automobile on it shows people walking and 01:03:35
biking. Doesn't really count for the workers, but. 01:03:40
The city in our general plan has a pretty robust active transportation plan and you definitely want to accommodate vehicles and 01:03:48
make sure, but that that shouldn't necessarily be the top priority is to move a vehicle that it's getting people put places 01:03:53
safely. 01:03:58
And particularly pedestrians. And so I'm curious if these studies take into account some of that may may not be as applicable in 01:04:05
like a residential area, but as we get higher density commercial areas and retail areas. 01:04:11
I'm just curious like what types of studies you do there because it seems very focused on automobile trips. Yeah. And that's why 01:04:17
we, when we came in and did the Vineyard Town Center, we actually took the IT stuff and we use it for short generation. But that's 01:04:23
where it ends and that's where we jumped into reviewings methodology. And the reason we did that is just because of the The 01:04:28
Walking ability, because we're looking at walking density, we're looking at intersection density really correlates well with 01:04:34
walking if you've got shorter blocks. 01:04:40
That means you got shorter block lengths, you get shorter walking distance, and you've got more things around you that you would 01:04:47
walk to. 01:04:50
That creates a difference and so that's what we used. So we actually looked at The Walking and we looked at bicycles and 01:04:54
alternative transportation modes such as bus. 01:04:58
Just making sure we're looking at everything. 01:05:03
So what we did on the Vineyard Town Center was more robust than what you see in a normal traffic impact study. 01:05:05
Most of them are just out of the book, Jeff. Even the one we did for you is just out of the book. 01:05:11
Because even though it was in a mixed-use environment, there's a big roadway separating everything. There wasn't a lot of 01:05:15
opportunity between those land uses. 01:05:19
And then, yeah, kind of a follow up to that is do you ever? 01:05:24
Maybe it's outside of your scope, but do you make recommendations on like public transportation or identify areas where? 01:05:29
It's not necessarily you need a bigger Rd. here, but like a bus route could could help out here or something like that. You do 01:05:36
that as part of your scope, Yeah, yeah. We worked on a large project for Sandy City. It was between 90th South and 106 S, between 01:05:43
State Street and I-15. And Mayor Dolan when he was married at the time, wanted to do something more robust. 01:05:49
And So what he wanted to look at is he wanted to look at a local circulator system. When we're doing Rio Tinto Stadium, he came in 01:05:57
and said, can we do something different? 01:06:00
And I told them, yeah, we we can do something different. That's where you want to go. And so we started using some of renewing 01:06:04
methodologies which had just come out at the time. 01:06:09
And so we use those, We lowered the trip count, we lower the parking, and we invented a circulator to run through the area. 01:06:13
At that time, and this is no offense to anybody, it had not been discussed at Utah, to my knowledge, about connecting light rail 01:06:20
that runs on the backside of Sandy. So the backside of. 01:06:26
The Exposition center up there and Jordan Commons, But then they had commuter rail that was coming and we said wouldn't it be nice 01:06:33
to link those two? 01:06:37
And they said it would. That'd be great. And then maybe a local circulator. So Sandy City looked at their their transit tax. 01:06:42
Then they went to UTA and said if you don't. 01:06:49
Promote a local circulator, then our transit tax, we're going to keep that and build their own circulation system. 01:06:51
UTA came in and said that's a great idea, We'll look at it for you. 01:06:58
And so they looked at it. Right now, there's still no local circulation system. 01:07:01
They deemed it wasn't feasible yet, but they are now connecting commuter rail and light rail together. 01:07:05
And so there's, there's been some great benefit out of that, but as that area continues to build and they're just starting on it. 01:07:11
For those of you that don't know, the stadium faces Northwest. 01:07:17
There's a big grand staircase on the northwest side of that stadium and that's the grand staircase where they want people coming 01:07:20
from. 01:07:23
They're planning future land use plan is parking structures and office buildings and a Greenway that goes all the way from the 01:07:27
soccer team all the way out to the 90th South I-15 intersection. 01:07:31
And so it's still coming, it's still in in fruition. 01:07:37
But they're just taking baby steps together, one development parcel at a time. 01:07:40
No, no, just your copy back on is answering your question, but the active transportation plan that was presented at the last 01:07:45
workshop. 01:07:49
Mr. Hills provided a lot of information, background information in regards to the traffic studies towards that as well. 01:07:54
I had AI had a question for you. How far does it look? Because in in Vineyard, we're bottlenecked, all the residential units 01:08:02
basically have 3 exit points in Vineyard. Whenever there's something built in Vineyard, do you look at those three spots or how 01:08:08
far does it, how far do you usually look? 01:08:14
Not necessarily. We're looking at all three of those spots, but we're looking. So your transportation master plan would be the 01:08:22
global overriding system. 01:08:25
You guys might kick me for saying this. 01:08:31
In another community and I won't tell you which one yet. 01:08:35
You guys can ask later, but. 01:08:37
In another community, we're looking at full build of the entire community. 01:08:39
What what Mag does, they do a great job of planning. They're looking out to your 2050 right now. That's the long range vision and 01:08:44
it's hard, it's hard for anybody to look out 50 years and and identify what's going to be there. The change in truck generation 01:08:48
just from Covad. 01:08:53
Nobody knew COVID was going to come and hit this hard. And you know, 10 years ago, nobody had any idea. 01:08:58
Now that we're there, things are changing. As Meg looks at planning for the future, they look at a 2050 horizon right now. At some 01:09:03
point they'll switch to a 2060. They usually take 10 year incremental leads. 01:09:08
But in another community, they said we want to look at full build out. 01:09:14
Three access points, full build out. You're going to know what the long term plan is. You don't have any neighbors to the West. 01:09:18
It's just a lake. 01:09:23
We like it like that. 01:09:26
Yeah, no, it's it's a great place. Vineyards in a great place because you don't have neighbors to the West. Any neighbors that are 01:09:30
North and South for the most part, I'm not generally cutting through the area because you know, the way we've got the bend and the 01:09:35
natural topography, people are in I-15 going north-south. Some will be on Vineyard connector of course. 01:09:41
But generally speaking, going to the South, there's not a huge demand to go into that northeast or northwest area of Provo and 01:09:48
Orem. 01:09:51
Again, because you're bounded by the lake, there's not a lot of build in that area, so you don't get a lot of demand. 01:09:55
And so you're in a very good situation where you. 01:10:01
There have been thoughts about pushing the vineyard connector further to the South. 01:10:04
At one time I saw those where they had a line through Vineyard going further South. I don't think that's even on the radar screen 01:10:08
anymore. 01:10:10
But where it bends and goes out eighth N that that's a good connection point for it. 01:10:14
But a full build out scenario. 01:10:20
Might be very suitable for looking at all three of those access points to say what happens when we're fully built out. 01:10:23
Rather than right now, if there's a lake crossing, it'd be nice to know if that lake crossing is coming, where it's coming in and. 01:10:28
Either plan for it or not plan for it. 01:10:34
Sorry, we're going to be on traffic impact. So it's a great question. 01:10:38
Sometimes in the 18th generation manual, they don't have things for trip generation. 01:10:44
You might have something that comes in the vineyard that is not in the manual. 01:10:49
And in that case, we try and grab local data and we go look at it. I'll use something goofy that you've probably never seen. Let's 01:10:53
say you've got a a miniature golf hunting course and a laundromat coming together. 01:10:58
Yeah, nobody's ever studied one of those because they don't do them. 01:11:05
But if you had something strange that came in, you would have to go study something similar and then bring that data and 01:11:08
extrapolate it into the site. 01:11:12
And so the book is very good. It has many, many land uses and things in it, but not everything. 01:11:16
Trip reductions. We talked about this already in brevity, but when you pull into the site looking at the mixed-use internal 01:11:21
capture. 01:11:25
When you pull into a site and you visit multiple. 01:11:29
Opportunities on that site, whether it's you office there and your family meets you there for dinner and then you're going to the 01:11:32
movie theater. 01:11:35
You'll be able to reduce the trips. Those are called internal capture trips. 01:11:39
And so we always train and minimize again the double counting of trips on the roadway by looking at internal capture. 01:11:43
But in addition to that and this comes back to your point, Anthony, as you come in, you look at multimodal approach and you take 01:11:50
reductions. So even on a standard traffic impact study, we're looking at how are people arriving at the site, it's not all 01:11:55
automobiles in a winter condition it might be. So we we've got a little bit of variation that we look at those and we we try and 01:11:59
make an educated guess. 01:12:04
And use data to try and prove what we're looking at. 01:12:09
If you go and look at Journey to work data from the Census. 01:12:13
You'll find the majority of people are driving in an automobile to travel to work. 01:12:17
I think it's around 92%, maybe even 93%. 01:12:21
Walking to work Pretty small. 01:12:24
We don't have a great environment in Utah for really walking to work, but if you were in New York. 01:12:27
And living in downtown, people in Manhattan walk to work. They take the subway, They take black taxi service. They use Ubers, 01:12:31
Lyft, whatever it might be. But they're moving around without their own personal vehicle. 01:12:37
And Uber, left is a whole other thing, but it's actually going to ask about how you. 01:12:44
It's like I may not go to the grocery store and I get my groceries delivered. It saves me personally a trip. But there's still a 01:12:50
trip that takes place or like DoorDash and all that that's that's going on even like Amazon, FedEx deliveries, those types of 01:12:56
things. How is that calculated into some of this now? Because you might reduce your retail shopping in person, but you still get 01:13:02
packages to your home and I think that's a part of it. As we talk about these, these changing trip dynamics, I think that'll 01:13:07
change in the next couple of manuals. 01:13:13
Interesting, I know. I was just saying our Amazon account is contributing to daily trips from an Amazon deliverer. 01:13:20
It was at my test, but we need it every day. 01:13:30
I was at my destiny at 3:00 and I ordered something on Amazon for the office, office supplies and. 01:13:35
The message popped up and it said it'll be delivered between 5:00 and 10:00 PM tonight. Anyway, what? 01:13:42
Amazon is getting so efficient and they've got a lot of same day facilities are popping up around. 01:13:48
So you're seeing those more. 01:13:53
Interesting. Dynamics are changing. 01:13:56
Trip assignment. So we always look at the distribution of trips. This happens to be. 01:13:59
If this was Moab. 01:14:03
But we look at distribution of trips and where are people coming to and how are they getting there. And so that really comes from 01:14:05
the traffic counts and the data. I won't spend a lot of time on that. 01:14:10
But it is based on something that's that's real. It's not just a, you know, stick your thumb up in the air and see which way the 01:14:15
winds blowing. 01:14:18
From that we take and we build the intersections. We take the timing of the travel light or the the traffic signals. We put that 01:14:22
into a simulation model and then we run that simulation 10 times. 01:14:28
It's stochastic. That means it's statistically based analysis and so we have to run it more than once to get an analysis. 01:14:34
And we look at it. We take the 95th percentile healing so that we know that we've hit the QA mark. We're not missing anything. 01:14:40
And then we look at how the intersections function. The timing for those lights is not a guess either. We we contact you dot, we 01:14:46
get the timing of their lights. We put that into the simulation models when we run them, so we know what the pet timing is. How 01:14:52
much time are they allocating for pedestrians, for bicyclists, and for vehicles? 01:14:57
And then we look at the level of service, it's just a major, it's like a yardstick and we just say A through FE&F are not good. We 01:15:03
don't want E or F but we'll go down to level of service. D is generally acceptable by the dot. 01:15:08
If we had a level of Service C criteria, then we'd be building our roads even wider. What might have been a three lane Rd. might 01:15:15
now be A5 Lane Rd. because we need more capacity and throughput at the intersection to reach level of Service C. 01:15:20
So D is a threshold that is commensurate with what a lot of the communities do as far as maintenance. And so it's it's a good 01:15:27
balance between the two. 01:15:30
So level of service indeed. 01:15:35
We've colored that a 3D and green because that's acceptable. E and yellow because they're starting to get outside of that region 01:15:37
if it is bad. 01:15:41
And we try and mitigate Europe. 01:15:45
I'll use an example real quick if you're on State Street in Orem and you're trying to make a left turn. 01:15:47
It's graded typically by a stopwatch, or the stopwatch for how much many cars are on that movement. 01:15:52
But when we when we look at it. 01:15:59
A traffic signal around about or an always stop. It's a factor of all of the movements coming in and what is all of their 01:16:01
collective delay divided by all of the traffic. 01:16:06
And so you can degrade that level of service pretty quick on an unsignalized with A2 way stop, you're looking at the worst 01:16:11
approach. So if you're an arm on State Street, you're the worst approach because you've just gone to McDonald's, you're pulling 01:16:16
out, you're trying to make a left turn across State Street. 01:16:21
And I don't know. I use McDonald's. I don't even go there. 01:16:27
If you're trying to pull out, you're stuck there and all the cars are coming through and there's no gaps in the traffic stream. 01:16:30
You've got to find a gap in both traffic streams. Let's say you're southbound and you've got east West traffic that's heavy. 01:16:35
You've got to find the gap in the eastbound and the westbound traffic stream that coincided at the same time so you can make your 01:16:39
left turn. 01:16:43
Unless you're going to pull into the the chicken wing, OK? 01:16:48
The two way left turn lane. 01:16:52
And that that's called a two stage gap and people do that. 01:16:55
But it takes a long time that you're sitting there waiting. If you started a stopwatch and you waited more than 50 seconds, you 01:16:59
have just hit failure. 01:17:02
I've done that many times. There are intersections like that, or driveways that you cannot get a good level of service. You're 01:17:07
never going to put a signal at a driveway, right? 01:17:10
It doesn't have enough traffic to warrant that, according to the MUTCD that we spoke about. So Ryan, what you're saying it stays 01:17:15
dirty is not like the ideal location that you would point to. 01:17:19
If you're wanting to cross or just sit there for a while and watch. 01:17:26
I know if you're wanting to watch traffic. 01:17:32
Anyway, that that level of service can be great pretty quick, and so that's how it's major. But you can't always work your way out 01:17:35
of mitigation. You can't mitigate your way out of four levels of service sometimes. 01:17:40
Is safety incorporated into the A through F or is it merely? 01:17:47
Like moving traffic is that? 01:17:52
What that's a metric for? That's a great question. So it's easy to move things if you don't care about safety. 01:17:55
That's a great question. They use what they call measures of effectiveness, Moes. 01:18:02
And the MO ease for a civilized intersection are different than they are for a two way stop. 01:18:07
And so you start looking at things. If you've got a high crash rate, we look at it from a different skill. You've got the level of 01:18:13
service skill. But when we're doing things for the dot, we always come back and we look at the crash data. 01:18:17
And we'll see. Is this a high crash location? You know what causes that crash? Is it a rear end crash? Or is it a the worst of the 01:18:22
T-bone crashes and you all know that? 01:18:27
High speed impact where somebody's trying to train out from a side street. And you all know you sit there for let's say you've 01:18:32
been there for 50 seconds, you've already failed, you've got cars piling up behind you. All of a sudden somebody honks behind you 01:18:38
and you're going, Oh my gosh, I got to get out of here and we turn right and we get out of the way right. 01:18:43
Into the next person to pull up and wait to make their left turn. 01:18:49
We get impatient and the people behind us get impatient the more that they get impatient. Pretty soon we're accepting a smaller 01:18:52
gap than we would normally accept to try and get out from the side street so it becomes unsafe, and that's when the crashes occur. 01:18:58
Let's see and let's do Little Caesars on a Friday night at 7:00 PM and people trying to turn left out of there. So if you can 01:21:19
finish the loop and get these to it as well, we're at an F level. But yeah, also kind of feedback on what Morgan saying 01:21:26
specifically on the site type approvals and. 01:21:33
The traffic impact study where we have the developers when they're proposing a new wireless development project and having 01:21:40
developers do the traffic impact starting as part of their project, they hired professional like Orion Hills here to go through 01:21:47
it. And then what I would do is pretty much have the developers self identify items that would have to be addressed. So by the 01:21:53
time it comes to Planning Commission, City Council to the city, those developers have already included those improvements around 01:22:00
their site to address those points. 01:22:06
Thank you. 01:22:14
Sorry, I'll try and go fast. I know it's nice getting long. 01:22:16
I will zip through these slides. You tell me if you want to stop on any of them, but. 01:22:19
Just very quickly, when we look at tis scenarios, we look at existing conditions five years out and usually 20 years out depending 01:22:23
on the size of the project and that way you get that that long term view, a short term view and kind of an immediate. 01:22:29
Question. 01:22:36
Tis, this is just a different threshold that that we've seen. You can see that if it's a smaller Tis at Level 3 going horizontally 01:22:38
between 100 and 500 trips on a daily basis, then we would do the current year plus five years out. If it gets any bigger than that 01:22:43
then we go to a 20 year plus horizon. 01:22:49
Not that you need to know much about this, but we talked about stochastic. There's also deterministic models that are There's 01:22:57
still. 01:23:00
Good models to look at, but they're not the best form. 01:23:03
Really should be simulating anything you're looking at. That's my opinion and. 01:23:07
I know there's other traffic engineers that will say that that's overkill. It's like. 01:23:12
If you're headed up to Park City and you go up north on I-15 and you turn off onto I-80 to go E, there's a short little segment 01:23:52
where people are trying to crossover and go off the State St. As you come around on that ramp and you're trying to go straight on 01:23:57
to I-80 up to Park City, a little bit of a weave area. So we put out a Bluetooth receiver up there and we measure the traffic, how 01:24:03
much was weaving so that we could look at how to fix the interchange. 01:24:08
And so we do use data like that, but we don't use it on these studies because it's cost prohibitive at this point. But as soon as 01:24:14
it becomes cost compatible, we'll definitely be doing that. 01:24:18
Mitigation measures I didn't come through either. 01:24:25
Sorry, I'm just gonna leave it here for a second on mitigations. There's all kinds of mitigations that you can look at. Forms of 01:24:28
control. I think I talked about already going from two way to four way to roundabout to a traffic signal. It might be adding the 01:24:33
right turn pocket, a left turn pocket, deceleration lanes. 01:24:38
Changing the signal timing it could be very simple. 01:24:43
So those are the types of mitigations that we're looking for and then we're looking for how traffic moves through a site. 01:24:46
To continue on when we when we breakdown those mitigation measures, typically they're broken down into background conditions and 01:24:52
plus project conditions. 01:24:56
One example that I would give is if we had a background condition, let's say as traffic engineers, we run the analysis and we 01:25:01
identify there's a problem at one of EU dot signals. 01:25:05
We would provide that to the city. The city would talk with you. Not to say, you know, you may want to look at this. It's been 01:25:10
identified. There's a problem here. 01:25:14
So that would be one way to to read those traffic impact studies. 01:25:48
Make it back up to this one. 01:25:54
I won't spend a lot of time going through this, but there are different ways that you look at right and left turn pockets. 01:25:57
And this is typically the way we look at them as we look at roads that are 40 mph or less and we use criteria such as 25 and 50 01:26:03
vehicles per hour making those turns and then we'll put in turn pockets accordingly if they're needed. 01:26:09
We talked about the regional plans already that we review. We talked about MAG and reviewing their long range plan. We talked 01:26:16
about U Dots long range plans. 01:26:20
In what they have. 01:26:24
If you're reviewing this as a planning commissioner, you want to just do a quick check. 01:26:26
We talked about the data collecting on a normal condition. If it's a school, obviously they're going to have different time 01:26:30
periods and you want to assess that in different time of day. Maybe the morning coincides with the morning traffic going to work, 01:26:35
but the afternoon way off. 01:26:39
If you go at 5:00, there's nobody at the school. You're not gonna get a lot of traffic. 01:26:44
Trip generation, just making sure that it's accurate, They're using a good data source or they've done out and collected data 01:26:50
locally that can be utilized. 01:26:53
Really, traffic engineers are known as being pessimists, and I don't like that. 01:26:58
That I don't even know what to call it. 01:27:06
Pseudonym. 01:27:08
But because we're always looking at a worst case scenario, we're saying what if, you know, on the worst time of the day, because 01:27:09
we go out and we say at the peak of the day, it's gonna be horrible. You know, it's like a mushroom cloud. During the Olympics, 01:27:14
when we were getting the Olympic planning, there was an article in the newspaper in the the graphic artist had drawn a picture of 01:27:19
a mushroom cloud saying it's gonna be really bad when the Olympics are here. 01:27:24
Because the traffic engineer stood up and said don't drive, don't go to work those days, work from home. 01:27:30
And so it looked really bad with the mushroom cloud. And everybody thought, this is horrible, we can't, we can't drive. And then 01:27:36
you drove on the streets and they were, they were so nice during the Olympics, a lot of people were scared and they stayed at 01:27:39
home. 01:27:42
Traffic was good during the Olympics. 01:27:46
Let's see. Sorry, I keep getting off on the wrong screen here. 01:27:51
Just some of the manuals that we use, the MUTCD that we spoke about, the Asheville Green Book. 01:27:55
The ITE Trip Generation Manual. 01:28:01
Parking generation, manual transportation impact analysis and site development and a highly capacity manual. 01:28:05
The Highway Capacity Manual is about 12 inches of. 01:28:10
Pages in a book series of three books. It's pretty ugly. 01:28:14
It's full of a lot of math and. 01:28:18
Want to read? 01:28:20
It'll put you right to sleep. 01:28:23
Some of the examples and this is the last part of it I promise, but looking at the Vineyard Town Center we use that that mixed-use 01:28:27
the MXD. 01:28:31
With the transit oriented development Tod, so the whole site is not toy, the whole site is not MXD. 01:28:35
But there's elements of MXD in the entire site. That Tod is really the concentrated 5 acre area near the transit station. 01:28:42
Looking at trips and parking, there were a lot of reductions that we were able to make. Again because of that mixed-use site, the 01:28:50
walkability of the site, the small blocks, and taking that into example, you've got a really good project coming that'll be really 01:28:56
nice. Will there be traffic? Yes, absolutely. Will it seem like it's a nightmare? Sometimes, Probably. 01:29:01
But for the most part, day in and day out, it's going to be a wonderful project. 01:29:08
The point, the point of not the redeveloping the prison site. We worked on that for about 6 months. 01:29:13
And we did the same thing. We used the mixed-use development and looking at that site they have a BRT running through the site. 01:29:18
Huge huge project. 01:29:21
We looked at bicycle pedestrian connections. The UT is going to bring a bus rapid transit system through the site. They're going 01:29:26
to come down from the eBay site in Draper, if you guys know where that is. 01:29:31
They'll come down and through weave into the site and then they're actually going to jump up on the hillside and they'll go over 01:29:36
I-15 on their own little bypass overpass and they'll come back onto the Frontage Rd. system and they'll be coming, dropping back 01:29:42
down into Lehigh on that east side. So that's where the BRT route is going to go. 01:29:47
We use the larger travel demand model to estimate the traffic volumes and just a great example. 01:29:55
Orem 800 S. 01:30:01
This one's kind of looking more at turn pockets. I won't. I won't bore you with that one. 01:30:03
Very quickly skip this one too down in Hurricane looking at at turn bucket. 01:30:08
This is kind of the same thing out in Toyota. Just looking at the pure volume of southbound, right, turns the 128 because it was 01:30:12
above the 50 we've recommended putting in a pocket. What that does is it gets the slower right turning vehicles out of the way, so 01:30:19
the through vehicles don't get slowed down by them. So it increases capacity. Does it increase speed probably. 01:30:26
So there's a balance. Sometimes you want the friction, sometimes you don't. 01:30:34
And so as planning commissioners, you can think about that. 01:30:37
If you're trying to slow down a little, you don't always have to have the right turn pockets put in, but right turn pockets are 01:30:41
also a safety feature. 01:30:44
Because the speed differential is the worst problem. 01:30:47
When somebody's slowing down to make a turn, if somebody behind them doesn't realize they're slowing down and they hit them from 01:30:50
behind. 01:30:52
That can be a pretty high speed collision when they're on their brakes and the person behind them is full speed. Ryan, that's a 01:30:55
that's a good kind of a quick discussion on that but like with the right hand turn pockets I. 01:31:03
Crossings and distance is a huge component of that. How do you analyze that and and does like like you have a gradient system for 01:31:42
for traffic with intersections like in level service ABCD is there something that you analyze as some sort of a metric or like a 01:31:49
measured system. I think you said the MOMOE but like I'm looking at like the the pedestrian environment or like the the bicycle 01:31:55
around is there a way to to grade those And you know I don't know if you want to just kind of respond to those two questions in 01:32:01
one but. 01:32:08
It's a great question. So we're still using level of service as a major, but there's times where you may say we want level of 01:32:14
service in this downtown core area, we don't want level of service B, we don't want traffic flying down the road. We want traffic 01:32:19
going slow. We want the congestion. You want somebody looking out the windshield, you want them seeing what's out on the side of 01:32:24
the road. 01:32:28
And so there are some communities that we've worked in that they've actually said we'll accept and lower level of service Park 01:32:33
City, Main St. 01:32:36
That does not function at level of service be. 01:32:40
Or D. 01:32:43
Yeah, it's by design, and that's by design. 01:32:46
In doing mixed-use projects and Jeff you know this that sometimes we come in and we say we want a level of service E. 01:32:48
But a lot of times municipalities have in their code we've got level of service D criteria. We can't change that. 01:32:55
And so you, you have to balance out what you're trying to do. Are you trying to move people and keep pedestrians safe? 01:33:00
By minimizing the pedestrian crossing distance and putting in the Bulldogs. 01:33:06
And if you take out the right turn pocket and you degrade from D to B to E, is that acceptable? And if that is for the community, 01:33:09
then that's an OK place to go. 01:33:13
Yeah, I think that's that's that's why it's good that we're having this conversation so that as a community we can be. 01:33:19
We know, you know what decisions are making, but. But. 01:33:25
Probably. Might not be move the cars through as fast as possible in certain places. Or sometimes there there there's a trade off 01:33:28
and there's a trade off. Yeah, yeah, right. Like Holdaway Rd. for example Rd. 01:33:35
You know, it's funny, when I when I came out with that was Mayor Gammon one time when when Mayor Gammon was married, I met with 01:33:48
him out on his tractor. He was out plowing the field and I went to his house and his wife said he's he's out there. I think I can 01:33:55
see the tractor inside. Went trucking all the way out there. Rode up the plan set on his desk, on his tractor. That was his desk. 01:34:01
We talked on his tractor. I just stood up on the wheel and we talked about traffic calming. 01:34:08
And it was traffic calming on. 01:34:11
On your road and we talked about speed humps and what could be done and you know various different forms of traffic calming and so 01:34:14
I I know Vineyard quite well. 01:34:18
And I know what you're dealing with. 01:34:23
Traffic coming. 01:34:27
Yeah, there are some forms that are really good and there's some that are not so good. 01:34:29
And so it's a measure of trying to slow the traffic down, but the good thing that you have on hold the road now is that you've got 01:34:33
alternative routes. 01:34:36
And that's huge, that that's nice because now you can start giving it a real thorough look and seeing what can be done. 01:34:41
There's horizontal natures and there's vertical measures, and depending on what you're trying to control, if you're trying to move 01:34:47
people off of All the Way Rd. you would put one form in. If the snow plow driver hits it, he's going to be really frustrated. 01:34:53
Hitting speed humps is frustrating. Getting a bulb out? Frustrating. 01:35:01
But if you can, delineate those and mark them and identify where they're at it. 01:35:05
Really there there should be a petition to test and look at it and see if it how big of a problem is it? You need to change 01:35:09
something. 01:35:12
So great question. 01:35:16
As I finished out the examples and I think I'm just about done here, apologize. It's like 27 it looks like. 01:35:19
Spanish Fork, same thing. Just looking at, they had some very, very extensive queuing and they put in a traffic signal right 01:35:25
behind another traffic signal. I know that one. 01:35:30
Yeah, You're getting close to Costco. There's a few kind of along that diagonal. Yeah. Yeah. 01:35:38
And it's it's just because you've got a a rotated grid pattern, right? And so you've got to look at these side by side and say, do 01:35:44
you really want all of those links come in? Should we cut off one of those legs? Should we make people go around and maybe one 01:35:49
gets cul-de-sac? There are ways to make it better without making it worse. And they tried to try to fix it and still it's better, 01:35:54
but it's still kind of a mess. It's tough. 01:35:59
Sometimes you just handed. 01:36:06
A bad intersection, if you're gonna figure it out. 01:36:09
Pleasant Grove. 01:36:11
Let's see, just trying to remember this one. 01:36:14
Sold it in 2021. 01:36:47
So these improvements really do go in and it's very helpful to get these improvements from the traffic impact studies. 01:36:49
Logan, this is just, I only put this in so you could look at it when I was on the Planning Commission. 01:36:57
In Lehigh, we had a lot of these come in where you had a lot of older offset intersections that are hard to hard to fix. It's an 01:37:02
old grid pattern to a new grid pattern, and you've got cars that are weaving across if you can follow the cursor and they're kind 01:37:07
of making that S curve maneuver. 01:37:12
Well, there's not enough room for them to turn and then turn on their blinker and turn again. Really, they're just getting the gas 01:37:17
and zipping all the way across. 01:37:20
And so we we try and minimize some of those. In this case, we recommended a write in write out on one side of the road to try and 01:37:24
minimize that maneuver. 01:37:27
So just things to think about, if you have any questions, you guys can feel free to call. Jeff, you've got my number. 01:37:32
Just just call me if you have any questions. Nassim is a great resource, you should start with nothing. 01:37:38
Pick his brain about you know, his thoughts and ideas. He knows this town inside and out, so. 01:37:44
Any questions you have? 01:37:50
I'm done, I promise. 01:37:52
OK. Yeah. And no, I just want to kind of kind of size up right now. They use this information good for when you review site, site 01:37:55
applications and master plans and so forth. But all this information is a backbone that goes into developing like a 10 year 01:38:03
transportation master plan which also includes facilities, facility projects and all that information can and funnels into what 01:38:10
the city needs. 01:38:18
Needs in order to develop impact fees and so forth like for the financial side of things as well, so. 01:38:25
Yeah, I think taking a lot of this information that the right house present there like you know consultants like consultants like 01:38:31
him you know put a lot of work into kind of thing out there. Nitty gritty of things where the city, the Planning Commission, City 01:38:38
Council can still make those decisions out in order to establish like the longer range plans which is very important for us to 01:38:46
kind of have that direction of which way to which way our growth is is moving. 01:38:53
Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. It's been great. Yeah. I mean, Tom and I would make is it oftentimes. 01:39:02
There's people have a perception of what traffic is and what the impact is of traffic. And so it's really good to have traffic 01:39:11
studies that actually where we look at data and sometimes the data is not necessarily what the perception is. 01:39:18
And so. 01:39:26
We do have one of the bike on that and then a member of the city. 01:40:10
Council as well. 01:40:13
There we go. Yeah. The Dave's welcome to, I mean, yeah. 01:40:16
Honestly, so OK and then. 01:40:21
Well, Zamas, oh, also those are the complete St. training. We said you sent you guys an e-mail. I think I know sometimes talking 01:40:25
about the traffic engineering, it's like this is such important stuff because. 01:40:30
Ryan is awesome as well. They should have stayed. 01:40:41
If you go to, well, please if you can, if you can attend the webinar for the complete stream, that that'll count toward your 01:40:46
training, and I think that will help build on the information that you're providing now. 01:40:52
Awesome. Thank you, Martin. 01:40:58
OK. Any other comments on that? 01:41:01
OK. 01:41:04
Then let's move on to Commission members reports and ex parte discussions or disclosure. Does anybody have anything they? 01:41:05
Any reports? Anything. By the way, Tim, he didn't need to be excused. He had to leave early, so he checked in with anything. 01:41:14
So we'll excused him for the rest of the meeting. The only thing I was going to bring up and I'll send out an e-mail to to to the 01:41:22
rest of the planning commissioners. But just as a reminder, we've had had a decent amount of turnover on the on the Commission is 01:41:27
that. 01:41:33
Is about attendance at the meetings, you know is required and and. 01:41:40
OK, that's it. Staff reports, do we have anything that you guys want to share with us? 01:42:22
Waterfront plan will be coming to to the Planning Commission. We're hoping to have that in April. I think most of you have been 01:42:28
falling out of that plan pretty closely And just to I guess clarify again we've been doing over Waterfront plan is not the Island 01:42:34
project. Please keep those separate. We don't, we don't because this is a really positive thing. We don't want it to get mixed 01:42:40
into any controversy within a project. 01:42:46
But that would be coming with Planning Commission and very exciting project hopefully our catalyst project that this the City 01:42:54
Council chose for the first grant is the the beach expansion. So we are working on the wetland application now getting that ready 01:43:01
to submit and hopefully we'll have construction documents as soon as possible. I know the Army Corps what we've been told is is 01:43:08
push back so hopefully that doesn't push back timeline but we do have funds to construct the the beach and. 01:43:15
And So what that means is. 01:43:23
And and some infrastructure that will help to sustain that through winters with the ice flows and you know all that the crazy 01:44:03
stuff that happens on the on utility so. 01:44:07
That'll be great. I'm Morgan. Did you want to mention anything about moving buildings? 01:44:14
Just so they all know. Yeah. Yeah, so. 01:44:18
That will reduce a vehicle trip for me. 01:44:54
So it would be a lot more, you know, Maverick runs on foot. It's a lot closer to Maverick. And I've seen, yeah, everyone in the 01:44:59
staff, a lot of more food trucks popping up in the empty lot. We'll know why. 01:45:05
To speak to that, all public meetings will still be held here unless the agenda states otherwise. OK, so. 01:45:14
One other thing is we did go out to the Frontner station, watch them install the last glass and they are still slated open next 01:45:24
month. 01:45:27
To start having train stop there. 01:45:32
I did have a question about that. What are the five posts that are sticking up in the parking lot area? 01:45:34
Missy, was that your idea? 01:45:46
Yeah, so. 01:45:48
Yes, what they'll be doing obstacle courses. Now those are those that were placed on, those are the live posts for the temporary 01:45:50
parking lot for ETA parking lot. So the contract would be post mounting the light, not to the top. It's further down around 35 01:46:00
feet high and then cities are cities putting in conduits underground. 01:46:10
Depending on how temporary this parking lot is going to be to possibly change that to a more suitable like the host in the future, 01:46:20
do we have any idea how temporary the parking lot is going to be? 01:46:25
Well, if you're talking about too many in military terms about 5275 years, if you're talking about that, there are plan is talking 01:46:33
about the ETA parking lot, there's there until. 01:46:38
Until the development puts the first parking deck. 01:46:46
And then ETA will be utilized, leasing space from the parking deck from development. 01:46:49
So we couldn't find taller poles. Well, we chose to go with the. We just wanted to go a little bit lower for the top golf. Yeah. 01:46:55
Apparently the look like. Yeah, yeah. The the the Redwood poles that we ordered there was a supply chain issue. So we're still 01:47:01
waiting on us. We'll get them out in half and then yeah. So yeah, obviously they violate the zoning code. We understand that with 01:47:08
UTA where our government code has it at 20 feet. 01:47:14
We're working with the ETA. They wanted the temporary structure, so we're doing the best we can to accommodate them to get the 01:47:22
station open next month. 01:47:26
So there's there's a lot of, you know, there's kind of a give and take. If it's longer than, I don't know what the time frame is 01:47:30
that the city also has the option of coming in and just installing their own poles. And so that would be at our cost. But 01:47:37
depending on how it looks, I mean there's a good chance we we come in there because that's yeah, I don't know very visible. 01:47:43
No, we're talking about the train station. I told you I'd be annoying about this. They haven't done anything with trail connection 01:47:52
yet. I'm just curious what? Any updates there? I always put all the money on those light bulbs. 01:47:57
No. Yeah. So that. 01:48:04
The focus, the focus of the developer right now is named Infrastructure and Road for the Main Street and Main Street Vineyard 01:48:07
connector area up there they're working on. 01:48:12
They're working on the finalizing the, the plans, the actual construction plans for to submit to UTI E dot in order to forward 01:48:18
them to review, to provide permits to to build their trail, to build the trail that goes underneath 800th N So when we submit that 01:48:25
then we have, we have the inside track hubs. They just were working working closely with ETA on providing them some leeway over 01:48:33
there with their needs. 01:48:40
That they're going, you know, they'll reciprocate that and. 01:48:48
You know closer to the top of us for their review to get that, to get that done. We anticipate, we do not anticipate that to be 01:48:50
ready for the front runner station, but we do anticipate that to be completed with this calendar year. OK, that's good. I mean I 01:48:57
know you're not setting the project plan, but it seems a little backwards to me to prioritize access for people that for sure have 01:49:03
cars versus people that may only be able to walk and bike there because even sidewalks leading to it are my understanding probably 01:49:10
not going to be ready. 01:49:16
Yeah. So the, yeah, the infrastructure behind the curve is not, is not going to be placed in to to with the with the buildings. 01:49:23
Because with the buildings getting close to the curves and everything kind of being so tight that with infrastructure behind being 01:49:30
behind the curves, hard to actually build those in the buildings without going back and damaging what you just built or enclosing 01:49:37
them off. The prioritization actually is more towards the buses, not not so much the cars or I mean again we recognize the 01:49:43
pedestrian part of that. 01:49:50
That's a good point though, on the buses, yeah. So that's that's we are #1 prioritization on that. And then but we do recognize 01:49:57
pedestrian portion of it is to because we don't want people to have to walk across the construction site. They don't work together 01:50:03
as well. So the 800 N is a close second. OK, great. 01:50:09
Just real quick, UVU. 01:50:19
I didn't submit, but they updated their plans for Vineyard and they're pretty cool. Who knows if they'll actually happen the way 01:50:23
they had them, but. 01:50:27
They're updated and they're pretty cool looking. We had talked Morgan about. 01:50:32
**** around here we talked about one point, inviting you and you to come and just even just for a work session, just a discussion. 01:50:39
And obviously we don't necessarily prove what they what they what they do. But it might be if they've got an updated plan, maybe 01:50:46
we can make another invitation out to them to come and talk to us about what their plans are. 01:50:52
That'll be helpful. 01:51:00
OK. 01:51:02
But I will send out an invitation and get that going. I think I sent everyone a link to to to the plans. So yeah, but if I want to 01:51:36
ask just, you know, you always have to kind of put that and just clarify it. It's not approved. It's a draft. 01:51:43
Thank you. Anything else? Anybody. 01:51:54
OK, with that then the meeting is adjourned. 01:51:58
Link
Start video at
Social
Embed
* you need to log in to manage your favorites
My Favorites List
You haven't added any favorites yet. Click the "Add Favorite" button on any media page, and they'll show up here.
* use Ctrl+F (Cmd+F on Mac) to search in document
Unable to preview the file.
Unable to preview the file.
Order our Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. 00:00:02
We're going to have Commissioner Bryce Brady give us an invocation. 00:00:06
Dearly Father, we're thankful that we can be here for this meeting for the in your Planning Commission. Please bless us as we go 00:00:14
through these things that we're talking about that will be inspired as to what needs to be done here at Vineyard for the benefit 00:00:20
of the community. We're so thankful for those that volunteer their time and efforts to make this a great place to live, and we're 00:00:27
thankful for the citizens that come and voice their concerns and help us make this city a great city. 00:00:33
We're so thankful for all that we have. We love the and we see these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:41
Hey, Bruce. 00:00:46
All right. So on the agenda, we have an open session. If there's any members of the community that have something that they want 00:00:48
to share, that's not on our agenda. And if you want to come up to the podium and state your name. 00:00:53
Hi, David Loray, resident. 00:01:04
So I have a question actually for the board. 00:01:07
I know that well. 00:01:13
When when a developer developer wants to come in and build a building, they have, they fill out the appropriate applications and 00:01:15
so forth. It's reviewed into the process and it arrives here at the, you know, with the Commission here to be considered. 00:01:22
I I had a petition. 00:01:30
Asking for some, you know, citizen. 00:01:33
Sponsor or citizen originated request of a city there's a traffic calming procedure head of the streets I I followed that 00:01:36
procedure and submitted it all but I I don't I don't see a process I can't seem to figure out the process is that gets it from 00:01:44
that point to you guys for consideration. So how does that work I mean what what do I I've been I've been talking to city people 00:01:51
I've I've not you know just just let it drop And so I've talked and seen some very helpful for example. 00:01:58
Others have to. What's the process? 00:02:06
That will get that traffic coming up application up here for consideration before the Planning Commission. 00:02:08
It's a good question. 00:02:20
Morgan, do you wanna? 00:02:21
Sure. It it deals with public right away. So that would go to the City Council directly. Yeah, it would go to City Council, I mean 00:02:23
if the Planning Commission would like would like to review it, but the the City Council would be the the board as the authority to 00:02:30
make decisions in the public right away. So let me rephrase the question, what's the process that gets it to the City Council? 00:02:36
And we're happy to talk to you after I I I don't, I don't know I'm not I'm not over that that application David. So if you want to 00:02:45
talk to staff you've got some more I can say the scenes was very helpful. I was just looking for all help I can get David is this. 00:02:51
So this is in relation to the you you came before I talked about on Holdaway road sacrificing. 00:02:58
Proposal for the bicycle Blvd. Yes, so in Morgan, I mean I would be fine to have it on our agenda too as Planning Commission. 00:03:05
For us to put it on the agenda here, you got a plan of course you'd like to see it. You guys can provide a recommendation if you 00:03:16
want, but it's with public right away. It's always going to be the City Council shrimp that that that would make that decision. So 00:03:21
if you guys would like to see it, we're happy to to bring it to you. I I would ask and see him to to comment on it if you want, 00:03:25
yeah. 00:03:29
So. 00:03:36
In regards to fab calming applications in general, typically when they're filled out and they're given, they're given their, 00:03:39
their, their reviews. Again, it depends depending on the type of application. For example, like it's a request for a request for a 00:03:46
reduced speed limit. Then with that being said, the city will conduct a will conduct an analysis depending on the type of analysis 00:03:53
is kind of determined on the situation and then. 00:04:00
At times. 00:04:08
The. 00:04:10
Before again, another jurisdiction as well. Typically sometimes if it comes down, if it comes down to where no action is required, 00:04:13
but we we study and there's a determination and no action, we sent a letter of to the applicant. 00:04:21
Stating that after after our evaluation that note we determined no actions required and that applicant actually has the 00:04:29
opportunity to bring it forth for an over contested and bring it forth to the great State Council. If they wanted to bring it to 00:04:36
Planning Commission, they can bring it to the Planning Commission. If there is actions to be taken like for example with emissil 00:04:44
arrays a specific application. We've kind of determined some steps to appropriate steps for some actions to be done. 00:04:51
And then if it's something to do specifically for a speed limit. 00:04:59
That is actually like that. I don't believe that goes through Planning Commission at all. That goes that that goes to represent 00:05:05
council for making those postings and then any kind of it requires. 00:05:10
If it requires, I just use this as the list examples. I guess speed hump or speed table then something like that, depending on if 00:05:16
it doesn't require any, If it requires additional budgeting budget like funding, then we're going to City Council if there is no 00:05:23
need for funding for that. 00:05:29
Typically it would be taken care of without City Council action on. It really depends on the what the actions would be required 00:05:36
on. 00:05:42
What the specific situation is, if it's a something to do specifically with a zoning type thing or even like a reclassification, 00:05:52
then that's something that's you know, I work, we work, we work with work with communities development director. 00:06:00
Determine whether it's appropriate to take it to the Planning Commission or not. 00:06:08
It's again it's a lots of different options depending on the situation, so it sounds like depending on what the what the proposed 00:06:12
traffic calming measures would be would dictate what is the best path exactly. 00:06:19
So again, just as the Planning Commission, we're happy to put it on the agenda if it's helpful. 00:06:28
So we're happy to bring it to you for your review if you'd like to see it. 00:07:05
So some of these lots don't necessarily have to find frontage that's planted, they're kind of grandfathered in. So if we went the 00:07:40
Planning Commission route? 00:07:44
Difficulties with calling it that, so happy to call it Heritage Bike Way or something like that or whatever. 00:08:21
The name is as important as is getting it done. 00:08:28
It's it's it's a great, the great asset to the city to have the bike way be great, but on top of that it's a great safety issue. 00:08:31
And it's one that hasn't been addressed for many years and we've been trying different routes and I think this is probably the one 00:08:39
that we most acceptable to most members of the city and in fact when I run around to get things signatures from the community. 00:08:46
85% of the of the neighborhood signed, yes. 00:08:53
I had one I won. No, but we expected that because he just piece of man's there. 00:08:59
So David I think we'll just so we can kind of can move it. I, I we we'd be happy to review it as the Planning Commission. So I 00:09:06
guess just you know after we must talk with Morgan determine what's the best course to get what you put together to get it 00:09:12
reviewed. I think it would be we'd be happy with you if if it's the best courses take a straight City Council. I mean it's fine 00:09:17
too but we'd be happy to put on the agenda and talk about it. 00:09:23
Yeah, it was not having a process. That's why I came here. And I also want to again say thank you in the scene who's been working 00:09:29
with us on this. 00:09:33
Any other comments from the public? 00:09:38
Please come up and state your name. 00:09:41
Carrie Hottie, resident for the record I agree with him, but different topic. A surveyor came out and was surveying the bike path 00:09:44
that's South of the the school on Geneva Rd. Not in Geneva. I've lived here too long on Center St. What's what's the name of that 00:09:53
school? The Vineyard Elementary, Trail side. Freedom. Franklin. Franklin. Franklin. The bike path S Franklin. Do you have a status 00:10:01
or update on that? Someone who's out surveying on the backpack? I do not. Is that something? 00:10:10
The scene when do we have a staff update on that? 00:10:19
Serving for a bypassing that subdivision. 00:10:22
Bike path that runs East West. 00:10:26
I'm gonna pull up a map, make sure I'm talking about the same one. It goes from the, it goes from the. 00:10:28
Why don't we get with him? Everything has to be on the record and if we get into a dialogue on specific items, it has to be an 00:10:35
under state code has to be agendized. 00:10:39
Public comment If if a resident asks to look into the summer, we can do that and then if you want it back on the agenda, we can. 00:10:44
But we we run afoul of the open meetings law if we get too deep and they have to be agendized on them. So we're happy to look into 00:10:51
it and get an answer. Just get the location that the northwest corner of the of the soccer park, the the lakeside complex, the 00:10:58
north, the northwest corner, it runs east West. So that's the bike path referring to the temple bike path. 00:11:05
Yeah, I don't, I don't, we don't have an update for you, but we can look for it after you know? 00:11:13
Thank you. 00:11:19
Any other comments from the public? 00:11:21
OK. 00:11:26
Go back there again here. 00:11:27
OK, so minutes review and approval. We have minutes from November 17th, December 1st and February 2nd. 00:11:30
The Commission Have you guys had a chance to look at those? Do we have? Yeah, I had a chance to review. If no one has any 00:11:39
objections, I'd like to make a motion to approve those minutes as stated. Yeah, go ahead real quick. On the February 2nd, was I 00:11:45
still the chair? I was the vice chair, Acting just acting chair. I was acting chair. I don't know. Let's switch over in November. 00:11:51
Was that when you guys? 00:11:57
January meeting, so you were just acting Chairman. I was just acting, OK, I can make that change in the in the minutes. OK. Is 00:12:03
that the only that's OK, right. So thanks for that. With that noted change, I motion to approve the minutes. I'll second. 00:12:10
I approved, all right. 00:12:18
Thank you. OK, All right, so let's move on to our business items. Item 4.1, Public Hearing Site Plan and Conditional Use Permit 00:12:24
for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is seeking approval of a commissioning permit and site plan for a place of 00:12:33
assembly located at 22212 N 220 W Parcel number 419140058. The property is in the Hampton subdivision zone, SFD. 00:12:42
15,000 before we get into this real quick, Didn't we approve this like two years ago? 00:12:52
It was, yes, there was continued. 00:12:58
Is this been the third time or it's the kind of thing where it gets, it gets reviewed, approved, the church does nothing and so 00:13:02
and everyone wants the church there. So it's kind of thing we're like you got to move on and then the application expires then 00:13:08
they come back. So we're hoping they told us they are going to move forward with it so. 00:13:14
You know, is that truly? 00:13:21
OK, just wanted to make sure it wasn't crazy. 00:13:24
My name is Brian Maya Perez. I'm a city planner here. 00:13:29
Yeah, so let's get started. The map on the screen shows the location of where the church will be, so where it says Church of Jesus 00:13:34
Christ. 00:13:38
It's in the Hamptons, just West of Vineyard Grove Park. 00:13:44
The applicant, Leif Harris, is here representing PhD Architects, the architectural firm that's doing the work for the church. The 00:13:48
actual address is going to be 171 W, 240 N, and it is in the Water's Edge Special Zoning District. 00:13:55
Single family dwellings 1515 thousand square feet and above. 00:14:05
So 1 Judge District aims to provide a range of housing located within a network of open space, parks and trails. It also aims to 00:14:09
provide several gathering places along Utah Lake shoreline. The property will be developed over the coming year and will help 00:14:15
provide social benefits and community resources for future residents. 00:14:21
I'm going to put throughout the picture of the project. 00:14:29
OK, there we go. 00:14:36
I'll show some renderings in a bit. 00:14:37
I wanted to talk about project. Some features about the project. It complements the neighborhood well aesthetically and through 00:14:42
its style. Through appropriate finishes, coloring, colors, materials and quality. It promotes easy access by walking and biking, 00:14:48
has an attractive water wise landscaping design. 00:14:54
Just to give a few notes on the architecture, it has a stone veneer, has some aluminum finishing, some brick detailing, panel 00:15:05
boarding, and each side of the building has been equally architecturally designed. 00:15:11
It's it's only 167,000 square foot lots. That's approximately 3.84 acres. The building itself is 20, is about 20,500 square feet 00:15:19
or 12% of the entire lot coverage. 00:15:26
The height of the building is about 70 feet with the steeple. 00:15:34
And 30 in about 33 feet without the seeple. Usually anything over 35 feet is is over our height limit, but there's an exception in 00:15:40
the zoning code for for steeples on churches specifically so they can go that high. 00:15:46
The project also has a 190 square foot storage building in the rear that is 12 foot tall, a six foot tall masonry dumpster 00:15:55
enclosure and 1800 square foot large pavilion, each building being proposed as consistent with the architecture of the primary 00:16:01
building. 00:16:08
There's a 3000, three, 300 square foot area that's going to be used as a reclaim and that can be used for public gathering space. 00:16:15
In total there are 281 parking spaces, 788 spaces to then accessible spaces, 8 bike stalls and 25.95% of the site is landscaping, 00:16:25
so in this in this zone the requirement is 20% so they're they're meeting that requirement and exceeding over 5 percent. 54% of 00:16:34
the site is in permeable surface so they're just shy of the 55% maximum. 00:16:43
And. 00:16:55
The light poles that are proposed on the site are all 18 feet tall and they're all hooded and down lit. 00:16:56
To talk about the interior of the building, there's going to be 304 seats in the main seating area or the Chapel. The Chapel will 00:17:06
include a rostrum, which is an elevated seating area with an organ chamber. There will be a Cultural Center that is often used as 00:17:12
a gym. They'll have a serving area, material center, family rooms, mother rooms, several offices and classrooms and restrooms that 00:17:19
are all 88 accessible. 00:17:25
Basically, in a nutshell, staff is ready to recommend approval of the. 00:17:33
Of the site plan and conditional use permit, but we do have a few concerns that we will have Mr. Lee Harris addressed here in a 00:17:39
minute we can come to the stand. Our first concern is that parts of the parking lot along the perimeter, I, I I've been the staff 00:17:45
that reviewed this, I feel like parts of the perimeter of the parking lot are not adequately lit based on the photometric plan. 00:17:51
There's a lot of it. There's some areas especially in the western parking lot, you know both the site plan. So you can see what 00:17:58
I'm referencing. 00:18:04
So here's the overall site plan. There are parts of the western parking lot that in the in the fundamental plan showed 0. 00:18:16
And maybe I'm just interpreting the photometric planning correctly. Also, on the southern part, there's also what appears to be 00:18:26
not enough illumination. And so I'm I'm concerned. I'd like to see that all of the parts of the of the parking lot are well lit, 00:18:33
just because I know the church often has activities, activities at night. 00:18:40
The other part is that there's in the entrances to the parking lot, So this western entrance here and then the northern entrance 00:19:19
here, We just wanted to make sure the code calls out that the, the concrete that is so the pedestrian walkway that intersects 00:19:26
driveways, they need to be clearly differentiated as as walkways for pedestrians. And so we just want to make sure that that is 00:19:33
being met, that part of the code is being met. They show what's the wording in the plans. 00:19:41
So the wording in the plan, there's a label that says new concrete drive approach and So what does new concrete mean? Is is going 00:19:48
to be a different pattern? Is it going to be? 00:19:53
Is there gonna be any paint on there? We just want an explanation of that because we always think about pedestrians first and make 00:19:59
sure that they're not being put into any zones of conflict with the vehicles. 00:20:05
The other thing is that in this northwest corner of the site. 00:20:12
So we just. 00:20:17
Received some new standards for. 00:20:19
Crosswalks and crosswalks leading into intersections from U dot. We want to make sure that these. 00:20:23
Diagonal ramp, pedestrian crossing landings at the northwest corner are changed the directional ramps and maybe in a minute or so 00:20:30
I I can it must seem if you have any sort of thing that you want to say to the directional grants. This was based on your comment. 00:20:38
In the in the review, I think it has to do. I want to explain, yeah, I can talk a little bit, yeah. 00:20:47
So it's always it's always better that crosswalks lead to another crosswalk or to a safe zone for pedestrians. As you can see here 00:20:53
in the corner, it's leading into the middle of the intersection where there is no pedestrian facility technically. And so if we 00:21:01
can get a proper alignment for these at the corners to where they're leading into crosswalks or safe delineated spaces for 00:21:08
pedestrians, that would be our ideal scenario. 00:21:16
My colleague Brian Perez is articulated that perfectly. 00:21:25
Thanks. 00:21:30
OK, um. 00:21:32
Attendance from our water manager. He wants to make sure that the applicant is avoiding any deep rooted vegetation along any water 00:21:34
meters or fire hydrants. So those are all labeled on the landscape plan. So that's just a note for the. 00:21:42
For the applicant and my final note is that an exterior wall signage, so I'll go to the elevations Here there's two, there's one, 00:21:51
there's one. 00:21:57
Two, I'm sorry, two exterior elevation signs or exterior wall signs. I should say A1 that says the Church of Jesus Christ of 00:22:04
Latter Day Saints and then another one that says it's a it's a number for the address. I'll have to double check if the numbers 00:22:10
need a sign permit, but for sure the the sign where it says Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is going to need a signed 00:22:15
permit. I I don't believe the address does. 00:22:21
OK. Yeah. Thank you, Morgan. So, yeah, we won't give you any trouble about that one, but the church sign, yes. 00:22:27
So those are my comments. 00:22:35
The Planning Commission had a had a couple days to review the the plan set that was submitted for the agenda. If you guys have any 00:22:38
questions, Mr. Harris is here to to answer any of these questions. So Life, could you come up to the standard and introduce 00:22:43
yourself? Thank you. 00:22:48
And feel free to change that. Can you do whatever? 00:22:56
So I'm Leif Harris. I'm the owner of PhD Architects and. 00:23:00
So I'm happy to answer any questions. Should I just go over the items that you asked about? OK, so the the church typically 00:23:04
doesn't by their just their standard plans doesn't put lighting and meaning parking lot lighting except right around the building. 00:23:12
This plan we added lighting on the east side on the second set of islands in order to I can show you where that is if I can. 00:23:19
Find the exact sheet here. 00:23:29
I'm gonna have to go clear clear to the end, aren't I? 00:23:32
You actually photometric planner, but Oh yeah the other end. So the the photometric plan is not going to help. It's the things are 00:23:37
too tiny to to read on this screen but. 00:23:42
So typically we don't. We don't put them. I mean ruin this aren't I? Here you need to you need to get a mouse up here. That's the 00:23:49
only no, I'm just bugging you. So normally normally we put, we put don't put any. 00:23:57
Rights out in the the islands. Thanks. 00:24:06
Would fill up. So as far as the church is concerned it's it meets their their lighting standards and they don't have concern about 00:24:44
the risk of of it being too dark. That said, if if the ordinance requires that we're happy to put in what's required more lighting 00:24:51
there and it it may be something I would suggest exploring maybe like a bollard lighting especially if you're going to be near a 00:24:58
residential homes you know keep it low but at least enough so that you know someone parks the back parking lot there you know. 00:25:06
They're able to see is some level, is there, is there a lighting level that's in the ordinance that's required or is it just a 00:25:14
general? 00:25:17
We don't we don't have aluminums. It's it's yeah it's kind of I mean somewhat opinion based. We need to like make that a little 00:25:22
bit more of a standard but it's supposed to be lit so, so so you can see yeah and it's and it's not lit currently so that if the 00:25:28
churches standard doesn't meet the ordinance, will meet the ordinance. 00:25:34
As far as the the parking at the OR the the sidewalk right in front of the Dr. approaches, that is typically just sidewalk 00:25:42
material. If the ordinance requires us to put in a colored or stacked concrete will do that. We just will make the ordinance. Is 00:25:48
there anywhere else in Vineyard that does that or any other do the schools do that do? 00:25:55
As well as differentiated crosswalks, OK, I'm just trying to think of. 00:26:03
Trying to think of the other church, the one on Foreigner South as well this. 00:26:09
Does it differentiate at all? Because I know it goes asphalt to the sidewalk and then the sidewalk just continues till it's 00:26:14
asphalt. One other thing that's unique about this, correct me if I'm wrong, but that N line there, that's the the trail 00:26:19
essentially connects in to that and it's a wider sidewalk that's not just like a traditional sidewalk along the north, the North 00:26:24
End. 00:26:29
Yes, I believe, I mean even if it's painted or something like that just to show that it's, I mean it, it's intended to be a more 00:26:37
used to trail away. It's it's not asphalt like the other one, but there's an asphalt one that leads right up to it. 00:26:43
And again, typically this is the same, I can't see from where I'm standing, but typically the stop parts would be placed along 00:26:52
those areas current further back. So when the car approaches that there would be in the parking lot, there would be a stop a stop 00:26:59
bar to allow at the at the stop sign to allow cars not to encroach too close to the pedestrian trail or even the sidewalk on the 00:27:05
West side. To ensure that you know when cars come by that they actually are able to provide their pedestrians to safe buffer to 00:27:12
cross. 00:27:19
So is there an asphalt trail that comes up to this property? It's a it's a Portland concrete trail that goes on on the north side. 00:27:26
Through the homes. Sorry. Yeah, it was going to be *******. But they changed it. 00:27:35
This is there a perimeter fence on the side installed on the east, on the east side and the South side. We were planning to do a 00:27:43
fence but not on the on the road sides at all. 00:27:48
Oh yeah, sure. 00:27:56
I believe so, yeah. Yes, I believe that that's true. Are you allowing gates? Typically the church does not allow gates because 00:28:00
there's liability issues with gates, so. 00:28:05
If that's required, we would entertain what's required but. 00:28:13
The diagonal ramp at the pedestrian crossing, we were happy to change it out if it's required. We would normally leave it if 00:28:17
that's a requirement will be that and then the deep rooted vegetable question will be that comply with that as well. Is there any 00:28:21
other issues you'd like me to address, Brian? 00:28:26
I don't know about the. 00:28:34
Something wiping out here. 00:28:36
Brian, you got you got to be on the record for next one. 00:28:40
As is Brian again, we have spoken to Mike Bailey who who is the person who filled out the application. There is a trail as you 00:28:43
mentioned on the north side and part of the trail comes into the property by 5 feet. And so we just expressed a concern that we 00:28:51
wanted to make sure that there that that easement. 00:28:59
That easement was put in place and there there is an easement put in place for that show and it is managed by the city. 00:29:08
Um, is there any other concern with that so? 00:29:13
That was something we wanted to clarify with the applicant so. 00:29:18
So that's still a question if that is an easement or it is we did find out that there is an easement. 00:29:21
I have not addressed that, so I'm not sure. Did you you're saying you did not find that out yet? 00:29:27
Ours would be, I'm sorry, just to kind of clarify was talking about this along the North side. We just want to make sure that it's 00:29:34
recorded properly in the plot that that is. 00:29:39
You know is. 00:29:45
Is it able to paint as I was maintained by the city? That's easy. That goes across and it's like for public use as well. So 00:29:47
because the portion of that trail doesn't do part of its in the public right of way, part of its into the Church of fiber 00:29:53
property, but that portion of it into the private property. 00:29:59
Process, you know is for public use and maintained by the city. Yes, I think this is the, this is either the utility or the 00:30:07
drainage map and it does call out if I put trail easement, yeah. And then also the one thing we know there was there was a 00:30:13
redundancy about 5 foot and eight foot. 00:30:19
So maybe just wanna make sure that we take that feeling out to clean up that pot. 00:30:26
What is that? Is that possibly the overlap line? So it's five feet on private property, 3 feet within the right of way? 00:30:31
Like being the planner who reviewed it, do you feel comfortable with with it? So do do you want a specific condition to ensure 00:30:41
that happens or does that? Is this exhibit enough? Well once it gets approved, is is that going to be enough to satisfy the the 00:30:46
easement requirements for the full walkway? 00:30:51
And I feel like it's enough, but I mean if it doesn't hurt, we just make sure that it's stated as a condition of approval that the 00:30:58
easement is is guaranteed to be in the city's name to to to accommodate the, you know, the the trail on the private property. You 00:31:04
can probably write it general enough so then we can just work with them. I just don't want it to be, you know some wording issue. 00:31:11
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, but I think this, yeah, let's just do that as an as an additional condition. 00:31:18
I have one more question about the lighting because obviously you're backing directly up to certain properties. We don't know what 00:31:26
the direct, the actual lumens are going to be. Is there a way just to verify it's it's not going to be an excessive amount that 00:31:31
bothers the property owners? 00:31:36
So this is Leif Harris again the. 00:31:42
We have a. 00:31:47
Already examined the lumens on the east side, they're low enough that they're not going to be glaring into the neighbors on the 00:31:48
South side. It's there's not a very long far distance. So I don't think we would want to add any on that side. So the only place 00:31:54
we would entertain adding would be on the West side which busts the street. In that case it would we could put it in the islands 00:32:00
and then it won't be really right next to the street and it's going to be far away from anything across the street. So I think 00:32:06
we'd be in the same range of. 00:32:13
Lumens that we already have on the on the property, OK. 00:32:19
We can check too if there is going to be a street light there, maybe afterwards because we don't want to like if there's already 00:32:22
street light, there's no reason to duplicate light on the private property. So now let's let's just look at that. I mean if the 00:32:28
intent of having it somewhat visible is is met, I think we're good and is there building lighting on that South side then it's on 00:32:33
the exterior. 00:32:38
Typically we have lights at the entrances and there is. Let's see if I can find our plan here. 00:32:45
So we we don't have any entrances on this South side. So there aren't any building lights. We do have pool pool lights, right? One 00:32:58
pool light right there. 00:33:02
And then we'd have it lights at both of these entrances, which are close to the South side. Because there aren't any parking or 00:33:08
any entrances on that South area, people won't typically park there, and they'll park on the sides if they're if the parking lot 00:33:12
is not full. 00:33:17
Are there going to be gates to the parking lot? 00:33:24
On in the fence or just to prevent parking outside of install them unless the local people park there for some other reason during 00:33:28
non church use such as a parking chair which a lot of people try to do that. So I would not expect that they would put them in. We 00:33:35
won't be putting them in as part of the project but they do sometimes do that after if there's problems with people. I would just 00:33:43
anticipate and we have the the summer celebrations lots of parking, I can see there be some. 00:33:50
Some use, but I mean that's not a use like that is usually not gonna make them put the gates up. 00:33:58
An observation that I have about some of the earliest chapels that are in residential areas is that the parking lot is used for a 00:34:05
cut through by people who live there and don't want to go all the way around the block and that can cause some safety issues, the 00:34:13
way they come out onto the streets and so on. And is there anything? I'm just trying to visualize this. I know there's a street on 00:34:22
the upper side. What is that north or what direction is that North is that? Yeah. And I and on the other entrance to the property. 00:34:30
There appears to be a street there as well. 00:34:39
My only recommendation is you put a BBQ snippet for the community somewhere in there. 00:35:29
I'll call the church and ask him about that and let you know. 00:35:36
Because one of the things that the last time you guys came through, there was some concern about lighting from the pavilion that 00:36:15
would, you know, provide light pollution to the neighbors adjacent to it, so. 00:36:20
Yeah. So I I guess that that's like how is it designed? Is it just the Castor pointing down? Is it is it usually is more like 00:36:27
these lights where it's mounted to the deck on the bottom And so it would only really shine down with a little bit of bleak to the 00:36:33
side, but not much. OK. So they're they're down downward facing then, Yeah, OK. 00:36:39
And the only area of grass in this landscaping area is. 00:36:48
That S part of South. 00:36:53
Yeah, You're welcome. 00:37:02
So they could see it. I think it's on page 17. 00:37:06
Nope. 00:37:12
Of one off, Yeah. 00:37:23
Yeah, so this is a. 00:37:25
Very water wise. They're escaped landscape design with rocks, mulch and. 00:37:27
The items are listed here on the side, yeah. 00:37:36
Rocks that would be bigger than little kids control. 00:37:40
Just just big enough, yeah. 00:37:45
We actually make them slingshot size, so they're very flexible. 00:37:48
Yeah. 00:37:53
If we don't have any other questions right now from the Commission, we can open this up to the public. So if there's a motion to 00:37:55
make this up, open a public hearing, so moved. 00:38:00
All in favor? Aye. OK. So if there's any members of the public who wish to make any comments or questions based on this agenda 00:38:07
item, you can come up to the podium. So I actually, I've, I've received a few. This is cash fancy. 00:38:15
Just some neighbors on the the border, the property to the east. 00:38:24
They just have some questions about how that fence is going to be installed because I believe they're in the process of putting up 00:38:27
their own fence. So they just wanted to hear a little bit more detail as to how that fence is going to look. I believe that there 00:38:33
might even be some like grade change between the Eastern properties and this property too. So can you just speak to that a little 00:38:38
bit? 00:38:44
So I'm I'm not familiar with that particular issue but in the past we've worked out with the the neighboring fence owners. We 00:38:50
would normally request that we can install our own fence and that they just don't put one up until this one's in. And we would 00:38:57
work out the grade with them to to ensure that there's not a big difference. And if there if there's a big difference it's not 00:39:04
something we can overcome. We would install a retaining wall so that would it would work if the grade. 00:39:12
That it. 00:39:25
I mean, I've only got an e-mail about it, so I don't know if that does answer the question or not. 00:39:28
Right, and the fence is 6 feet in height and brown. They did want to do a retaining wall without require any kind of. 00:39:33
If they needed to, would that require any kind of amendment? 00:39:42
I think they would just have to go through a building permit, open as required. 00:39:47
If it's over 4 feet 13 more than it would require a building permit, right. So maybe a follow up question then on that is gets the 00:39:54
timing, you know for some of these residents trying to decide whether to build a fence is how long might they be waiting. So I 00:40:00
don't know if you've got any information as we discussed before, we we have seen some plans for this before that have not been 00:40:06
executed. So it might be important for those in order to know that. 00:40:12
The, the plan was to have already bid this and get it under construction by this date. But they the landscaping plan is kind of a 00:40:18
pilot project. They're trying to decide whether to move more towards a really water wise plan or not. And it's taken a lot, a lot 00:40:25
more review time. So we are a little bit delayed, but I don't anticipate that it will be more than a year before the fence would 00:40:31
be installed. The intent is you're moving on this project, right. We would we would expect by next spring sometime. 00:40:38
According to what we've been told recently, it would be done OK. 00:40:45
Great. I had one more question. This is for the storm water with elevation change. I assume the plan that there's not going to be 00:40:48
runoff issues or anything for neighbors that have elevation lower than that. I think the state law requires that we maintain all 00:40:55
our own and discharge it to whatever the city requires that we don't bleed over to any neighbors. So we design it that way 00:41:02
typically in business in the door, the plans to actually do have a cut detail showing that any kind of graduation where between 00:41:08
the neighbors. 00:41:15
And the church, excuse me, where there's a small Swale and to allow the water this way into the ground. Thank you. 00:41:22
There any other questions from the public? 00:41:31
OK, then. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? 00:41:34
To close the public hearing a second all in favor, aye? 00:41:38
OK. Do you have anything? Yeah, but I'd just like to read the conditions of approval if we're ready. 00:41:43
Yeah. I mean, are there any other questions or? 00:41:49
OK. Go ahead, Tim. Brian, yeah. 00:41:52
So conditions for approval are that the area that the areas of the parking lot are adequately lit as we discussed, especially the 00:41:55
western part of the of the of the parking lot of the property that all pressing walkways that cross driveways shall be adequately 00:42:01
differentiated. 00:42:08
The applicant shall change the diagonal ramp, pedestrian crossing, landing at the northwest corner of the property at 220 W and 00:42:15
240 N to directional grants. 00:42:20
The applicant shall avoided deeply vegetation around meters and fire hydrants and all exterior wall signage shall be reviewed 00:42:26
through a separate sign permit. Am I missing? 00:42:31
1. 00:42:38
Oh yeah, the easement. Yes, I've got a condition written and I could read in the record and change it if you want, but it's and 00:42:40
these will be provided for the trail on the north side of the of the property to accommodate any portion of the trail located 00:42:45
within the applicants property. 00:42:50
Awesome. Could I ask a question to clarify, when we say adequately differentiated on a sidewalk crossing, do we have that defined 00:42:55
in our code? We do. There's a code section in the staff report. 00:43:01
Yeah, it's it's, it's, it's. Clearly, it's pretty detailed. It's got it per the code. 00:43:07
OK, do I have a motion? 00:43:15
Yeah, I'm going to approve the site plan and Conditional use permit as required by Mike Davey with Bhd. 00:43:18
Architects with the proposed conditions. 00:43:25
As mentioned. 00:43:29
2nd. That. 00:43:32
All in favor, aye. 00:43:34
Motion passes. 00:43:37
Thank you. Thank you, Bernard. Thank you. You're welcome. 00:43:38
All right. 00:43:43
OK, agenda item 5.1 is a work session. So that means we will not be taking any action on any items that we have a traffic impact 00:43:46
study training from Ryan Hales with Hales Engineering to give us some an educational seminar regarding uses and benefits of 00:43:52
traffic impact studies. 00:43:57
So come on up, Ryan. Unless Brian Morgan, are you guys providing an introduction? Nope. Miss you. 00:44:06
OK, this is the scene in the door. I would like to interview Sir Mr. Whitehouse who is a not only a traffic engineer but youth SLA 00:44:15
certified planner. 00:44:20
So. 00:44:26
This is the important stuff for us, for people to understand. It's a lot to complicate things, going to a detailed report and that 00:44:30
gets turned out. And it's present to planning commissions and city councils to make educated decisions. 00:44:37
You said two hours. If there's future. If there's future training you guys want on a specific topic, let us know. 00:45:17
Next morning, I want this to be really informant. So I hope you'll apologize for me making it more informal as we go. We did this 00:45:23
presentation down at the city engineers conference. So all the city engineers gather, they have their meetings just like a group 00:45:29
would. And so we presented this talking about traffic in taxes and the same thought and thought it might be good for you guys to 00:45:34
go through it. Josh Gibbons would have been here with me. He's he's out this evening. He actually just got back from Disneyland. 00:45:40
Lucky guy. 00:45:46
So he is not here tonight. He is attending another meeting. 00:45:53
But I just want to go through a couple of things real quick. We've done over 2000 studies in the area, Utah area. 00:45:57
We do have, we are doing studies outside and various other areas, but a lot of that is traffic impact. So we work. 00:46:04
And really what this is, is a traffic impact study is kind of where you go from the transportation Master plan down to the PACE 00:46:10
plant level. 00:46:14
And it's something that's really important because what we're trying to do is bridge the gap between your transportation Master 00:46:19
plan. You've all seen the transportation master plan. We identify roadways that that need to be upgraded. We might have a three 00:46:24
lane Rd. that needs to be classified as a major collector and that would be a future improvement. So you look at moving from 2:00 00:46:29
to 3:00 lanes or three to five lanes, whatever that might be. 00:46:34
But a traffic impact study really comes down and narrows that focus down. 00:47:12
And brings us down to about 1000 feet. So when you're you're coming in on final approach and you're you're about to land, you can 00:47:16
look out the window, you can see the cars pulling out sometimes, you can see the lights turning red, green, whatever it might be. 00:47:21
And you might be looking out at the pocket saying OK, that turn pocket. 00:47:27
Well, that's a it's short because cars are spilling out of it. That's called Q spillover. 00:47:32
And so that's really what it's about kind of between your transportation master plan, your traffic impact study. 00:47:37
We do a lot of traffic study review for you doubt anytime there's a warrant study anywhere in the state, we end up reviewing that 00:47:44
meaning a traffic signal. So if Masin called Doug Bassett over at Region 3 and said. 00:47:50
So we look at that, we look at the United standards and we give that final stamp of approval that that goes for crosswalk studies, 00:48:30
speed reduction studies, speed increases. 00:48:35
And then passing zones and then corridor studies is one of the new things that they've started doing. 00:48:40
This graphic may not do it well. I apologize. We've got a PDF version that we're rolling through right now instead of the the 00:48:47
PowerPoint. 00:48:50
But you all have a general plan. 00:48:55
Really, the transportation element starts from the General plan. You've probably all