Start Position
Vice-Chair Brady called the meeting to order.                      INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE- Vice-Chair Brady offered an invocation.                    OPEN SESSION                    MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVAL3.1    March,22
MOTION: COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS RECORDED. COMMISSIONER JENKINS SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE-CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                         PUBLIC HEARING1
The Public Hearings for the Geneva Nitrogen General Plan Land Use Map and Zoning Map Amendment Applications have been CONTINUED to the July22 Planning Commission Meeting. [Members of the public who attend will be heard; following their comments, this item will be continued] Community Development Director Morgan Brim briefly explained the rezone process and the reason behind continuing the public hearing.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. VICE-CHAIR BRADY SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE-CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER JENKINS MOTIONED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING TO JULY22. VICE-CHAIR BRADY SECONDED THE MOTION. CHAIR KNIGHTON, VICE-CHAIR BRADY, COMMISSIONER BRAMWELL, COMMISSIONER BLACKBURN, AND COMMISSIONER JENKINS VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                     WORKSESSION1
General Plan Review- Heritage and CulturalResources Planner II Briam Amaya Perez led a discussion about the Heritage and Cultural Resources section of the General Plan.  2
Geneva Retail Mixed Use Zone Community Development Director Morgan Brim presented the proposed Geneva Retail Mixed Use (GRMU) Zone.  3
BYU Presentation Planner II Briam Amaya Perez presented the class project prepared by the Brigham Young University Geography Department regarding Mill Road and0 North.  4
Site Plan Minor Amendments Community Development Director Morgan Brim presented amendments for consideration regarding minor amendments to site plans.
COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURECommissioner Jenkins discussed Bike Month activities.           Vice-Chair Brady discussed the progress with the central corridor plan.           Chair Knighton mentioned a desire to move future planning commission meetings to the HBA building. He also discussed that he will be leaving the planning commission in the next few weeks and a replacement Chair will have to be voted on.           City Engineer Naseem Ghandour gave a brief overview of the Main Street and0 North light signal and street expansion.                      ADJOURNMENT
Chair Knighton adjourned the meeting.     CERTIFIED CORRECT ON: May,22 CERTIFIED BY:/s/CacheHancey Cache Hancey, PlanningTechnician
All right. Welcome, everybody. Today is May 18th, and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission. I will give an invocation. 00:00:02
Heavenly Father, we thankful that we could be here today to discuss things for our city. We're so thankful for this city, this 00:00:13
place that we live. We're thankful for the effort that everyone puts forward to make this a great place to live. Please bless 00:00:17
those that. 00:00:22
That are serving our community whether they be leaders or police force or just anybody in general that they'll be blessed. Help us 00:00:28
to know what would be best for our city. We lofty and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:34
All right. Moving to an open session. Do we have any comments from the public? 00:00:42
If not, then we'll move right into the Minutes for review and approval. 00:00:49
For March 16th 3.1. Is anybody taking a look at that or? 00:00:56
I wanted to make a motion. 00:01:02
Looked to be OK to me. OK, Do you wanna make a motion? 00:01:04
Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes of March 16th as presented. All right. Thank you. All right, thanks, Anthony. 00:01:08
All in favour. Aye, aye. All right. Moving to public hearing item 4.1. So, Bryce, if you could on this one. This is in regards to 00:01:17
the nitrogen Geneva partial of 27 acres or so that's off in Geneva Rd. City has interest in seeing something that's not. 00:01:26
We had some the the owner got a new e-mail address, so there was a lot of correspondence that didn't go back and forth. So we're 00:02:09
running in good effort work with them. So it's on now. Our request is that you officially open a public hearing allow people 00:02:15
military, but I'll allow them to speak if they want and don't close it Then just then before you move to the next item continue it 00:02:21
to. I think it's July 6th planning question. OK, cool. Jeff Knighton is here. So I'm going to let him take over from this point. 00:02:27
We just got to item 4.1. 00:02:34
We're about to open up the public, the public hearing for the Geneva nitrogen plant. 00:02:41
Yes, thank you, Bryce. Dealing with traffic and I make a motion to open a public hearing. I'll second that. 00:02:46
All in favor of the motion, aye? 00:02:54
We are now in a public hearing. 00:02:59
And I will also make a motion that we continue this public hearing to the July 6/20/22 Planning Commission meeting. 00:03:02
Do I have a second? 00:03:11
All in favor, aye. 00:03:13
Motion passes. 00:03:17
OK, so that's that takes care of 4.1 basically. Wait, we just continue that? 00:03:21
OK. So then item 5.1, work session, general plan, review of the heritage and cultural resources. So Brian? 00:03:28
We will be presenting on this. That's right, this is a work session, so no vote or action will be taken. 00:03:37
And if I could, just before Brian starts, yesterday we talked in in another meeting about how important it might be for there to 00:03:44
be some clarity about why did Vineyard get started as a community, how that came about, what was the incentive behind it. I don't 00:03:52
know if if you wanted me to take a few minutes and and read out of the Heritage book how that came about or if we should do that 00:03:59
in another time. 00:04:06
Either way, Brian, do you want to and what would be the right placement for that with your presentation? 00:04:17
Just wondering more because this is heritage item, can you can you give a few words on that? 00:04:23
Sure. 00:04:32
I think so. The structure of my presentation is to talk about a little bit about what a general plan is, why we're updating it, 00:04:37
why that matters, then I'm going to go into. 00:04:45
Some community engagement initiatives that we've done in the past. So we'll have a discussion about moving forward with some 00:04:55
community community engagement efforts to update this section of the plan. So I think I think it's, it's great if you want to give 00:05:00
us a little bit of background. 00:05:05
So that it's at least on the record again. Sure. How Vineyard came about, what was its purpose, how did, how was it formulated, 00:05:11
and so on. I'm getting my information out of this book that a lot of us have seen called Our Vineyard Heritage. It was written 00:05:19
published in about 2000, I think if I'm not mistaken, but it covered the 1st 100 years of Vineyards existence up until about the 00:05:28
latter part of the 1990s. But I thought I would just read a few of the articles here. I'm starting on page. 00:05:36
72 in the section called incorporation. 00:05:45
And I think it might be useful for us to because in our earlier discussion it was we thought. 00:05:50
You know what has caused Vineyard to have the culture that it has? What? How did it start? Every place has its story, every city 00:05:57
has its beginnings, and sometimes those beginnings carry over into even how we make decisions later. So I thought I would just 00:06:04
read a little bit of this so that you can get a feel for what caused this city to to to be. First of all, there was a feeling by 00:06:11
148 residents. 00:06:19
Who were here, that they were being encroached upon by neighboring cities? Arm and Provo, primarily and a little bit Linden, but 00:06:26
primarily Orman, provoke, and they were concerned that they would be taken over by those cities that were already incorporated and 00:06:32
already functioning. 00:06:39
The citizens got together in 1972, So 50 years ago, 1972, they got together and made a proposal to Geneva steel. At the time it 00:06:47
was. 00:06:52
United States Steel to incorporate Vineyard. 00:06:57
And the steel company felt that that was not necessary at the time. 00:07:02
But in 1980? 00:07:07
There was a law passed in Utah State legislature, a tax law, that basically required corporations or companies in unincorporated 00:07:09
areas to operate within an existing city limit. 00:07:17
When they were going to be re managed that is bought by someone else or as they change management and that's exactly what was 00:07:26
occurring with the United States Steel in 1980 was they were being bought by Geneva Steel. 00:07:33
So the tax law required the company to be within an incorporated city limit, and they weren't. They were within the county limits. 00:07:41
And so it got vineyards attention again and and the residents went back to to Geneva Steel and made a petition to incorporate and 00:07:51
it was approved that there was a process they had to go through. They had to get signatures. Out of the 148 residents, 140 of them 00:07:59
said yes. There were a few that dissented and they took that to then the county Commission over a period of a couple of years and 00:08:08
it was debated back and forth. There were some opposition from Orem. The book says that. 00:08:16
ARM officials questioned whether it was appropriate to place a town between Orem and the lake. 00:08:25
How could such a city support its infrastructure? Would ARM have a future say in environmental issues? And so on? 00:08:32
But the City of Vineyard wanted to have its own independence. So it began with an independence feeling. They didn't want to be 00:08:41
managed by larger cities, so with 148 citizens, they were incorporated. It was approved in May of 1989. 00:08:49
And there's some really cool quotes in this book from the first mayor, mayor, ruling gammon. 00:08:58
But it was basically saying they wanted to keep the culture of their community. They wanted to, they wanted people to understand 00:09:05
this as an agricultural community and they wanted people to be able to have land if they wanted to have land. And they could only 00:09:13
protect that if they incorporated and then manage that process. As the years came along, there was some concern for over 00:09:21
development. Well, maybe they were being prophetic in in terms of some of the things that people were seeing. 00:09:29
But um. 00:09:37
I I just think it's important for us to remember that there was a a very small core group of people who saw the vision to keep the 00:09:39
city independent, keep the town independent from the larger neighboring cities. Especially because Orem wanted to use the western 00:09:46
part of Orem to kind of dump a lot of the things that they didn't want to have up on the bench. And the city could see that coming 00:09:54
and said no. 00:10:01
We're going to keep our land pristine, clean, pure and keep it for the desires of the residents. So there's a feeling of 00:10:09
independence that they wanted to be and and and retain their independence. They wanted to retain a culture that spoke about the 00:10:17
people who first developed this area and protected it and created it and then developed it. 00:10:24
And they wanted to develop a source of revenue. Geneva Steel, at the time, was the only source of revenue. And it's interesting 00:10:33
that when Geneva, excuse me, when Vineyard put his first city budget together in 1990, they wanted a budget of $80,000, there was 00:10:40
no money because the county had already taken it away for that tax year. And so they went to Geneva Steel and asked for a loan of 00:10:48
$50,000 to operate the city. 00:10:56
The Geneva Steel gave them $15,000. 00:11:03
And they ran the city for the first year until they started generating their own tax and pretty soon they got $140,000 from the 00:11:08
tax revenue and then it built. And they, the city even reduced property taxes by 30%, which wouldn't that be a creative idea, 00:11:15
reduce the the property taxes by 30% because they had so much money, they just didn't know what to do with it. So anyway, I'll 00:11:22
leave it there, but I just thought it would be good to just remember. 00:11:30
From whence we come, why Vineyard existed in the 1st place, the hard fight that was fought by the the first residents here and. 00:11:37
I think it carries on into who we are today, a fairly independent community, the one that has a bright future and trying to 00:11:50
protect its growth and its future. So anyway, thank you for allowing me that. Yeah. Thank you, Tim. 00:11:56
You're welcome. Thanks for that. That was really awesome. 00:12:03
So this presentation is a continuation of the discussion that we had in the April 20th 22 Planning Commission meeting where we're 00:12:07
talking about updating the heritage element or the heritage chapter of the General Plan. 00:12:14
I had provided red lines and found a kind of a draft of the revisions that were made-up to this point and they were presented to 00:12:22
the Commission and basically the conversation was continued. We wanted to allow more time to get feedback on the red lines, but 00:12:30
before we before we get to that conversation, we decided that it might be good to have a conversation with us updating the general 00:12:38
plan. 00:12:45
Let's touch on what a General Plan is, what it isn't, and this provides some clarifying information because it's it's always good 00:12:53
with the general plan being a document that we refer to all the time, constantly. We want to make sure that we understand its 00:13:00
legal authorities and and how it can serve to to benefit our planning process. 00:13:08
Oops, there we go. 00:13:17
OK, so I got some a few references from the state code. 00:13:21
Each municipality shall prepare and adopt A comprehensive long range General plan for President and future names of the 00:13:25
municipality, growth and development of all or any part of the land within the municipality. 00:13:32
This plan needs to articulate the existing and desired conditions of the community as well as future land use and transportation 00:13:39
corridors. 00:13:43
The General Plan may provide for some of the following things for health, general welfare, safety, moderate income, housing, 00:13:50
economic development, future land use, historic preservation, and and many more. 00:13:57
This part of the code helps to clarify, I guess. I'll just see that it says the general plan is an advisory guide for land use 00:14:06
decision. Unless otherwise stated by local ordinance, General plan is only an advisory is only advisory in nature. 00:14:15
In many cases, the municipalities did not need to follow the General Plan. 00:14:24
So the general plan is it's a living breathing document. It's a document that can change, but it's a document that establishes 00:14:30
kind of like a ground basis for where we want to move as a community. It provides the flexibility, it gives cities the flexibility 00:14:37
of of making decisions that are sometimes outside of our general plan. But it is kind of that guidepost and so recent decisions, 00:14:44
some some decisions have been recently in the city that. 00:14:51
I guess some would argue that we're not in line with the general plan. 00:14:59
And others would argue that it wasn't in line with the Gentle Plan. But we wanted this to establish that the drone plan is is a 00:15:04
guiding document. Sometimes we can go we are legally authorized to go outside of the general plan if we if we think that's in the 00:15:10
best interest of the community. 00:15:15
Anyways, without a general plan like me does not have a long range vision, goals or strategies to guide and our growth and 00:15:23
development. So Brian, if you could just go back to that last slide and in a positive way to say that last statement is with a 00:15:31
general plan, a community has a long range vision enrolled because I think that's what it does for us. It gives us that vision, 00:15:38
the goals and the strategies. 00:15:45
Not not laws, but vision, goals and strategies, yeah. And I think it's fair to say that most of the time we follow the job plan. 00:15:52
We do our best to stick to the general plan as much as we can. That's the purpose of doing these updates. And I think that's why 00:15:59
the state encourages regular updating and referencing of the general plan. 00:16:05
Um, very important this up to me this afternoon. The general plan serves as a necessary and effective budgeting document. We 00:16:17
actually can't have a lot of our infrastructure. We can't build or construct our infrastructure unless it's it's shown on the 00:16:23
general plan like our open spaces, our parks, our utilities like all that stuff has to be shown and reflecting the general plan 00:16:29
for you to move forward with that. 00:16:36
Big impacts could be coming. 00:17:13
Kind of a companion document to the general plan. And so you'll see that General plan is a big overarching one and you have a lot 00:17:48
of like master plans and things that are companion dog documents to that. But yeah, you're absolutely right. 00:17:53
Right. So, yeah, we wanted to provide this level of information that perhaps in the future after we've made our amendments and 00:18:00
established our our general plan that sometimes it might go at least in interpretation, it might go against the general plan. And 00:18:07
and we shouldn't always expect the general plan to be followed to the team. We do our best to follow it, follow it, but it does 00:18:14
have that flexibility. 00:18:22
Is all I want to say. 00:18:29
OK. It's important to update the general plan. So here we are. 00:18:34
Turned off accidentally. Sorry. 00:18:39
And here's some of the reasons why it's important to keep your general Plan updated. It helps us to understand significant changes 00:18:41
in the community as time goes by. It helps us to identify missing elements in the in our General Plan. 00:18:47
This year the state is changing a few, a few adding a few requirements of things that need to be updated in the general plan. 00:18:55
We need to update our modern income housing element in our general plan. Now we also need to provide an A section of the general 00:19:04
plan that talks about our event includes us a station area plan for permanent transit infrastructure. So cities that have like a 00:19:12
front runner station now they need to provide a station area plan for the adjacent. 00:19:20
Area around that station and how that's going to function best for people in the community. It helps us to identify conflicts in 00:19:28
the plan and in our municipal ordinances or if there's any discrepancies. It helps to establish accuracy with the zoning map and 00:19:36
of course it helps us to move forward in a in a positive direction as as our community grows. 00:19:44
Is there a requirement to do it? What says regularly, so no defined time. You don't have to do it every five years or something. 00:19:53
Yeah, I we switched that in the code. I was looking at state code today. I could not find a set time other than understanding that 00:19:59
the encouragement is to update it regularly. 00:20:05
Yeah. 00:20:12
But when it comes to, there are there is a section when it comes to moderate income housing elements of the General Plan State 00:20:14
Code Section 1098408 requires us to review and report on this topic annually. 00:20:21
Moderate income housing and cities being able to provide affordable housing for people isn't is top on the list for for a lot of 00:20:30
the planning that's going on in the state. And so this year we'll have to provide that report along with a few updates in our 00:20:36
goals and strategies of our general plan by October. So we're we're working on that as as we as we speak. So we'll be touching on 00:20:43
that pretty soon with you guys. 00:20:49
OK. And moving to the heritage portion of this presentation. 00:20:58
Let's chat if if there are any comments on the red lines that were presented last time. If there's anything you guys feel that 00:21:03
needs to be added or taken away or changed, there's an opportunity for you guys to to let us know what you think if you've had the 00:21:08
chance. 00:21:13
So I'll just open up to you guys. Oh, they've had a chance. You've had the chance. 00:21:21
So this discussion will keep going. So if if there are no comments today, we're happy to pick this up in the coming weeks or every 00:21:28
few weeks or every, every Planning Commission. We want to touch on updates to the general plan. So expect this, this competition 00:21:34
to be reoccurring. So, so just a general comment from the Heritage Commission, we feel that there have been some things left out 00:21:41
in the attempt to consolidate and. 00:21:48
You know, minimize wording and and those types of things, but we're not prepared yet to say what those are, just got comments back 00:21:56
from people how about this or how about that? And it was left out. So I'm sensing that there may be more effort to put some things 00:22:04
back in with the with the overall goal of keeping it minimal. So that's about the only thing so far we can report. Yeah, Tim, 00:22:11
would it be helpful to do a similar work session with the Heritage Commission? 00:22:18
Yeah, it could be, surely. 00:22:26
Yeah, if you want to let us know a time we're happy to attend that, OK. Would that be on any on any day, I mean of the week kind 00:22:29
of thing or? 00:22:35
Yeah. Happy. 00:22:43
The other thing, I was going to bring up it and I don't know want to play sick anymore, burden on staff for staff reports and 00:22:46
things like that. But I think anytime there's a project that's coming up or something that we're taking action on if there are. 00:22:52
Applicable parts of the general plan that we should be reviewing as we go along. So like view 2.1 about land use or this about 00:22:59
heritage. I think that would help us keep this top of mind rather than a little more like something that's collecting dust and 00:23:05
then we look at it once a year or whatever it might be that would that would keep a top of mind for every meeting. So you're 00:23:11
saying like heads up before time or even just like so you know item 4.1 today like applicable general plan section. Oh OK, like 00:23:17
like reference. 00:23:22
Get some references on the gender or a staff report or you know it with recommendations and they wouldn't necessarily have to be 00:23:28
with every little thing. But for major projects, I think it's extremely important that we are referencing the general plan for 00:23:34
sure. For sure we can do that. In fact because the general plan is on APDF, we could, we could attach the specific PDF pages of 00:23:40
the general plan to the agenda that way, a quick reference I think that's particularly. 00:23:46
Applicable to the rezone or things like that where we're we're we're stepping outside of the more administrative kind of decisions 00:23:54
you know and where where we need to be. 00:23:59
Conscious of how 5th and general we've been doing the for like rezones and new tax, we've been doing the general plan table so 00:24:04
that that that's in there. If if you want something more at like the front end for a political, what we do is we run through the 00:24:09
general plan all the goals and objectives and we grab the ones that we find are applicable either in a good way or a bad way and 00:24:14
then we try to do like a short analysis on it. 00:24:19
I saw the microphone creeping closer to you. 00:24:25
I agree. 00:24:34
Now. 00:24:36
That would make a good point specifically at least from staff reports that come from us, we'll we'll make sure that they highlight 00:24:40
their goals, the goal, the goals that it's achieving in terms of what like what this particular project is achieving in terms of 00:24:47
from the general plan and specifically the types of goals that the general plans outlining. So this way when you see the Wind 00:24:53
Planning Commission sees the staff report. 00:24:59
They know that we've done I do buildings to ensure that we're abiding to our dining lines being the general plan. 00:25:05
Have you received land use manuals? 00:25:15
Have you ordered the land use manuals for them? 00:25:21
I'm embarrassing him. 00:25:25
Publicly over it, because you all should be receiving land use manuals. They're just books that talk about all the different, you 00:25:27
know, Council Planning Commission. And I found it really helpful because it helps you understand what Planning Commission can do. 00:25:34
So she gave me the reference, She gave me the contact. Amber Radison gave me the contact to the Ombudsman. So I'll be reaching 00:25:40
out. 00:25:47
She still loves me. 00:25:56
One of you would prefer an Audible version of it that we can look see if they have one. I'm not like some audiobook. I think that 00:25:57
would put me something like something I can search more easily. I think that's the benefit of like PDF writing. I don't believe 00:26:06
that they have an ebook version of it, like a locally made book by somebody in Utah. Yeah. 00:26:14
We're looking around and very surprising physical copies because it is a really good book. I honestly, I referenced that book. 00:26:22
To make this presentation. It's really good stuff. I'm in front of this stuff. 00:26:27
So does anybody have any comments on the red lines specifically? 00:26:34
Other other comments, I just wanted to make sure that from the Heritage Commission that they were OK. That sounds like there may 00:26:40
be some things that were trimmed down that it's correct. Yeah, we would like to come back and make some additional proposals. 00:26:46
Yeah, that's great. We want to have them. 00:26:52
Yeah, for sure. For sure. We can definitely accommodate that, absolutely. I have a quick question. So in Vineyard, do we actually 00:26:58
have any buildings or sites that are, I guess? 00:27:03
Identified 4 historical preservation. And I know like for buildings, there's actually like a state process to formally recognize 00:27:09
these. Do we actually have any, Tim, are you able to speak on that? Yeah, I'm not aware of any that have gone through a process of 00:27:17
preservation for that purpose. We really only have one existing home from the early Pioneer days still around and in use. And 00:27:25
that's one on the corner of 400 S and Holdaway Rd. kind of on the corner. 00:27:33
It's an original Adobe building. 00:27:42
But there are some that go back to the early 20s and 30s but not back in the 1800s and there's been no effort on the land owners. 00:27:45
You know current form forever so so we have had one of one request to make you guys probably heard this about a million times the 00:28:39
other way road bike Blvd. and potentially calling that once it's formally established a a heritage road and to do sign in a 00:28:45
certain tree treatments like that. So you feel like as you could come onto that road that you're in kind of a special district a 00:28:52
little different. So I know there's some interest from the city and and doing that but we're still kind of a ways away on the 00:28:58
whole way road bike Blvd. project. 00:29:04
But, and we do have the one section of Lakeview Dr. that has Siamese up recognizing it as Walters way. 00:29:10
Those signs were put up probably six or eight months ago, just to recognize the historical nature of that particular part of a Rd. 00:29:22
But it's minimal. 00:29:29
Yeah, and the wording in the in the general plan language is is general enough that it it goes outside of just buildings, talks 00:29:34
about structures and sites and other other things. 00:29:40
So OK, so do we do we want to close on this section on on the red lines. 00:29:45
For now, we will continue in the future Planning Commission meeting. 00:29:53
OK. Yeah, we'll do that for now. The last portion of this presentation that I wanted to touch on is feature community engagement. 00:29:59
So we are discussing how how can we make the topic of of heritage, of history interesting and relevant with with the with the 00:30:07
residents. That's one of the things that is challenging. 00:30:14
How can create ideas that are creative and interesting and fun and actually engage people? 00:30:23
So that's one thing that I wanted to ask you guys is what ideas, if any, can we focus on moving forward? 00:30:28
And Brian? 00:30:39
Just just putting parameters, we're talking specifically as a Planning Commission. 00:30:41
Working through this general plan process on these questions, are you looking for more open? 00:30:47
Yeah, I guess input I guess in my mind it's kind of like for this aspect of the general plan, but also we can implement them for 00:30:53
other things that we do heritage related, but for now with updating the general plan. 00:31:00
When do you have a comment on matter? 00:31:08
Anyway, that, that that's an idea of kind of getting people to maybe engage 'cause they're gonna be, it's gonna be very relevant 00:32:19
to the anatomy of when I've lived here 5-6 years. But I think I think you'll also get some of those further reaching back type 00:32:24
stories and, you know, things that are connected with the heritage. 00:32:30
Yeah, and so storytelling is a wonderful way to capture. 00:32:36
History, development, if you will, reaching back. And we, we understand there are some oral histories available from Geneva steel 00:32:43
workers or trying to find some of those, and we would like to collect a lot more because that age of population is diminishing and 00:32:50
the same is true with those who lived here early on in the agricultural life. 00:32:58
We'd like to collect more oral stories, oral histories of people that could then be available. But you know and and then the the 00:33:07
current history. I think that's an intriguing thing because we're all trying to leave a legacy of some kind. We're all trying to 00:33:15
build on something and leave a legacy. So that's current history and even what I'd call future history, you know. So if there are 00:33:23
ways to capture stories of of what brought people to Vineyard today and and why are they here and something about their. 00:33:31
But I think that would build even public involvement by beginning in the elementary schools, teaching people about, you know, the 00:34:14
young people that are going to go home and then tell mom and dad, hey, did you know kind of thing about about vineyards? So just 00:34:19
another element that we're currently working on. 00:34:25
Tim, Yet another really great idea. 00:34:32
This is my talking point, but you have mentioned kind of like. 00:34:35
We even thought it could be somewhat competitive. You have like a test and then you bring the other public meetings say OK, we're 00:35:14
going to go through how how many can answer this question kind of thing, you know and. 00:35:19
I don't know. 00:35:25
There's something that I mentioned in our last meeting was that we need to theme it in some way. We need to have things. If we 00:35:28
just say heritage, I feel like the majority of the average person here in Vineyard just will immediately after that stop 00:35:35
listening. Not the heritage isn't great, but if there's themes to the heritage, then it's easier to build off of that. Like 00:35:43
certain cities have very specific themes for their heritage and if we can have some. 00:35:50
Defining themes where we're like this is Vineyard is known for this, this and this like, then we can build off of that a lot 00:35:58
easier than just heritage in general, because that's such a broad word. 00:36:04
Singing and like activities or in everything in general. I mean if like I'm trying to think of another city. 00:36:10
American pork, I mean, something kind of like that, yeah. But other cities like are they're famous for cheese or they're famous 00:36:21
for something. And it's not that they're famous necessarily because they're still doing it, but it's something that was done in 00:36:27
their past, and they're famous for it because of their past. And so, and they're only famous for it because they promoted it and 00:36:34
promoted it and promoted it and they sell hats and shirts and whatever. 00:36:40
And if we can't define our heritage, then it's hard to build something out of it. It's almost like branding, right? That's kind of 00:36:48
what you're getting at. 00:36:52
Just to kind of put it back off that, so for example, the city I came from was established back into the Civil War area era by. 00:36:58
By individuals, people at the end of the end of the Civil War. So it was called Soldier City as a nickname. But you're correct. I 00:37:10
mean, they went through rebranding and they came up with like 3 different logos. 00:37:15
Or three different symbols for the part of the branding and part of their heritage was always part of that around those emphasis 00:37:21
like being veterans. The other one I pulled out, the other one is they were on a big giant lake like VR and then of course they 00:37:27
had certain types of birds that was everywhere, so. 00:37:32
I think a lot of that gets to, and this is, I'm glad, Tim, you shared what you did at the beginning of the meeting because I think 00:37:40
a lot of it gets to the why, right? Why does the city exist? 00:37:45
Why it is So what What is vineyards? Why, why it is Vineyard exists as a city and not just a another neighborhood in Orem or or an 00:37:50
extension of Linden down on the shore. And so I think that gets to what you're saying Bryce. You know the cities that kind of 00:37:57
tapped into their their why they exist in the first place. 00:38:03
And how does that connect to the people that are there? I think if our heritage if, if with what we focus on. 00:38:10
Granted that what Vineyard is today is very different than what it was in the 80s when it first became an incorporated town, but 00:38:17
maybe the why isn't that as different? You know, maybe it's not agriculture anymore, but maybe it's people are still looking for. 00:38:26
A different experience than what they find an aura more Provo and some other neighboring communities. And the the way that the 00:38:36
city you know is embracing and this is maybe just coming from my head. But the way we're embracing the Lakeshore and trying to 00:38:42
address it is very different than every, you know most other cities in Utah County and trying to use that as an amenity is 00:38:49
something that we celebrate and. 00:38:55
You know the theme around independence. 00:39:03
You know, and and being distinctly different intentionally, I don't know. I think there's maybe some ideas in there that you can 00:39:06
that could be tapped into to that theme or to that branding that's that that that can appeal to the newer residents and help them 00:39:14
feel connected to the original residents. And the reason that Vineyard exists as a town and has its own identity as a as a place. 00:39:22
And Geneva Steel and like just the people that worked in vineyard and were self-made and Vineyard like talking about just 00:40:06
employment opportunities and. 00:40:11
Stuff like that, economic stuff. I think we can theme it. I think there are ways to theme. I don't know the history well enough to 00:40:19
do it, but I think that could be seen really well. 00:40:24
I'll add to that that I think that the heritage and the history can be. 00:40:31
Yeah. Sometimes when people think history, they think go back to the good old days. Today is always bad. Yes, yesterday was always 00:41:11
better, right? Like this. I don't think that's what we want to honor the past while we while we continue to move forward too. And 00:41:15
so I think there's an opportunity to kind of pull out. 00:41:20
Some of the values are the characteristics that got our city to where it is today and we'll leave it into the future too. So I 00:41:25
think there's some key opportunities there. I also think it's important you know, answering some of these questions. I think we 00:41:32
have done a good job engaging the public on the last go around. I think it's always beneficial when we focus on. 00:41:39
What people want versus kind of a cheap response of what I don't like because. 00:41:46
And we can have a quick conversation. 00:42:26
That Anthony's already initiated. 00:42:30
To the segue? Yeah, Segway. 00:42:33
Some of the the comments that we've we've had in the past is. 00:42:38
What do we do with public input? What we go out and we get it. 00:42:44
And I think that there's a distress level. 00:42:49
In. 00:42:53
OK, you do surveys, you do questionnaires, you have meetings and you put sticky pads and sticky notes up on the wall. What's the 00:42:55
result that comes from that effort? I think the public would be a lot more responsive to providing input if they felt it's really 00:43:02
used if it's valuable to the decision makers. And I think we don't have a good history in Vineyard to be able to show that and and 00:43:10
so one of my thoughts is. 00:43:17
What's the value of getting public input if we're not going to use it? 00:43:25
OK, so we want to make value. We want to make it valuable. So we're going to make an effort to go get it. 00:43:31
What will that? How will that value translate into something useful? 00:43:37
Those are just some philosophical thoughts I've had about. 00:43:42
Public input is really good. 00:43:46
On some things and other times it's not useful. 00:43:48
And so would it be more useful here to get broader opinions, broader perspectives, more buy in to the future? You know, what is 00:43:52
the reason for getting it? 00:43:57
And then how are we going to build trust to show that we'll actually use it? And when we don't use it because we've made decisions 00:44:03
that we feel are better, how do we explain that to the public? Because public input is just that, It's simply input, it's we're 00:44:10
not required to follow it. So anyway, those are just some broad philosophical questions that I would put here. 00:44:17
And I I definitely agree. I think it is. 00:44:26
And again on the engineering side, when we take, when we come up to this situation like for example Rollaway Rd. as in one and on 00:45:37
Center St. there was a traffic maneuvering sign that was that that was twice here that was causing some issues and we took public 00:45:46
input in terms of that from different types of sources like for example Facebook or petition and so forth. And with that we 00:45:54
applied our engineering portion of it, but also we didn't want to make sure that we were listening to the UN aspect of it. 00:46:02
And. 00:46:10
The even aspect and then to address that and then communicate that we did hear people because really at the end we want to. I want 00:46:13
to believe that. 00:46:17
The feedback that we get from the public is downtown. 00:46:23
I guess maybe we'll start wrapping up the the conversation, but I I think we've heard really wonderful thoughts tonight. I think 00:46:33
good things for us as a staff. 00:46:37
To think about as we receive and use and share the input that we've received from people. 00:46:41
In terms of moving forward on the specific project of updating the the the element of the general plan. 00:46:49
Let's try use the Commission. 00:46:59
For the next time that we may or one of our soon to come Planning Commission meetings if not the next one, let's put some of these 00:47:02
ideas on paper and and add to those red lines if if you see an appropriate place to add. And then we can continue that discussion 00:47:09
and and we'll continue to think about everything that was said today in terms of engagement and how we we can maximize our our 00:47:16
efforts to to get public input. 00:47:23
I only have anything to say. 00:47:31
OK. So awesome. Thank you. 00:47:35
Any other comments from the? 00:47:39
Thanks, Brian. We will move on to item 5.2 then the Geneva retail mixed-use zone. 00:47:43
Morgan, you will be presenting this again at the work session, so no action will be taken. 00:47:50
Yep, no action. 00:47:56
All right. I just want to highlight the property for you. 00:48:05
Mostly you're pretty familiar with this. 00:48:10
Sorry, I didn't have the microphone on. So the Geneva Retail mixes district, it comprises these, I think it's 10 or 11. This one 00:48:14
splits maybe it's 11 lots, which starts from O'Reilly Auto Parts and moves its way northward. You see kind of this piece right 00:48:21
here that's the Central Utah Water District parcel that they were trying to get a well sighted. So it incorporates this area right 00:48:27
here. 00:48:34
I pull over my staff report and I'll make a few comments and then you might want to just have do you guys have a PowerPoint or 00:48:42
something? OK, great. 00:48:45
All right. 00:48:55
So. 00:48:58
This development, what's being proposed, is essentially providing. 00:49:00
The building to do a mixed-use development on the north side of the of the project which would be similar in the architectural 00:49:04
field and kind of massing that you would see on the north side of 400 N. 00:49:10
And so the city staff and working with some of the council members, we would really like to see kind of your three or four parcels 00:49:17
up here have kind of that urban mixed-use connection with the Northside. The applicant is requesting auto oriented uses and so 00:49:23
that would be for like auto services, car washes and those types of uses. Currently the, the zoning code that does not allow for 00:49:30
this. So O'Reilly auto parts is we look at that it's a it's a primary retail business. So we look at the primary function and that 00:49:36
it's retail. 00:49:42
They do like some battery swapping. They'll test your batteries. Yeah. They'll help you out with some very small things in the 00:49:49
parking lot. For the most part. It's a it's a retail business as you know the property or maybe you don't know. But when the 00:49:56
central Utah water came through, there was a minute flat on these 3 N properties. So that's why the the parcel number is a little 00:50:02
funky. I try to provide an explanation of that in the staff report. 00:50:08
Wanted to also highlight kind of the general plan stuff. So sometimes it's probably helpful just to point it out. 00:50:16
I think we need to probably do a better job at the front end having these things. So you know it's not buried in the report. But 00:50:22
well we we went through the the, the, the plan, you know the code from the heritage portion of that, their code speaks to like a 00:50:29
familiar and traditional setting for for users. There's not necessarily like architectural requirements that would require like a 00:50:36
heritage type type thing. But you know they they did have something that that was kind of akin to that. 00:50:43
So the well, like one of the main points of the general plan that that worked out really well is going to bring in cards to access 00:50:52
to services. 00:50:56
Providing kind of like the human scale development and so we we we marked a few few of these if you guys want to go through this. 00:51:02
This is just kind of a work session. You don't have to do this right now but you know you're on time kind of took prep for the the 00:51:07
public hearing that that'll be following. 00:51:12
Staff is working with the applicant on several different portions of of the district. Sorry, it's got double screen on me. 00:51:19
And. 00:51:30
So they've they started their their updated draft, so we'll work on that, refine it. You guys have had both the language kind of 00:51:32
the overall staff comment and I think right now would be a good time to have the applicant get up kind of give the vision of of 00:51:38
the the district that that and overall kind of what their goal is to accomplish with that. 00:51:44
Can you just clarify again then? So we're talking about the lots up at the corner. 00:51:52
For a mixed-use project and then the remaining lots to the South with a more auto oriented commercial standalone buildings. 00:51:58
Yeah, So that right now they're all under the RMU zone. And so this would be a zoning math amendment. I would flip those into a 00:52:09
new zoning district and Geneva retail mixed-use. There's there's a lot of similarities between the RMU. One of the other things 00:52:15
too and I think this is a good discussion to have with with the applicant is in regards to residential, you know whether or not 00:52:22
you'd be open to the mixed-use portion of that housing residential or if you'd like to see more office, professional office 00:52:28
service. 00:52:35
That are mixed together. So but anyway that that's a conversation that we do need to have and so the Afghan needs to hear your 00:52:42
comments and feedback on it. Can you also speak to access points off of Geneva Rd. because it's not one per parcel, correct? No, 00:52:49
no it's not. There's a Geneva Rd. shared access management plan between Orem U dot and and Vineyard. Obviously you're going to get 00:52:56
your access on the north side for 400 N once that intersection improvements occur. 00:53:04
A back access, an easement that runs the length and I'm sure Jason can kind of get more details on that. And then there's I think 00:53:12
sort of in the middle is the full. 00:53:16
Access onto Geneva and then there's a possibility of adding right in, right out by any two others on the corridor. 00:53:22
OK, let's have the applicant then. 00:53:31
Up and share with what you've gotten and we'll ask our questions. 00:53:34
So. 00:53:48
Well, he's getting that. 00:53:53
Morning. I didn't mention that. When you have an updated version, we've been working with staff. 00:53:56
Has some feedback on some of the different items, so this is an updated version. 00:54:02
Still not necessarily the final version. 00:54:09
Steps. 00:54:16
Into the process, but we're excited to be here tonight to hear. 00:54:17
Your thoughts on what it is we are? 00:54:21
It's gone. 00:54:32
That hours. 00:54:35
You know I have to download it the the two can't fit next to each other for some reason. All right, sorry Here, I need that one 00:54:40
more minute. 00:54:43
Sorry, just to clarify. So this this text is. 00:55:13
Based on the RMU text or this is a OK. 00:55:17
So the under when you say underlying new codex to the art, the RMU. 00:55:21
So. 00:55:26
This is, it will be a new code. It's a new code section. We took the RMU district right and made as a template basically. So 00:55:28
underline means it's new code to the. 00:55:33
Previous to the RMU as the template, and then strikethrough is where you remove stuff from what arm you had, so there's no 00:55:39
strikethrough. This is just additions, yeah, because it is a new section, so we're not modifying the RNU at all, OK? 00:55:47
If you want to go to the next one that show the reasoning why, I mean the RMU is a large area and we're just talking about a very 00:55:56
small area with some very unique circumstances that it seems appropriate, this seems like an appropriate. 00:56:04
Process and methodology to. 00:56:12
Identify standards that are appropriate for that limited scope in that limited area. 00:56:15
So next one. 00:56:22
Thank you. So it highlighted highlighting yellow. This is what we're talking about with O'Reilly O'reilly's building on the South. 00:56:25
And so as you can see, this subdivision is is really unique in that it sits between the multifamily and Geneva Rd. As we've talked 00:56:32
about, access is is limited there. When the plot was recorded, there were several access points and a shared driveway shared 00:56:40
access across the frontage and then there's also an easement across the back. 00:56:48
Utility easement that goes all the way down. We anticipate utilizing as. 00:56:56
Access as well, especially on the northern parcels where there wouldn't be the ability to that frontage Rd. 00:57:03
To to access 400 as it's too close to the intersection. 00:57:12
So based on the location. 00:57:15
And the needs. I think it didn't make sense to modify the whole RMU code as opposed to just adopting a specific code for those 00:57:20
specific blocks. 00:57:26
So this is actually. 00:57:35
This is the plat. We can't really see it all that well, but in the flat there's a partial A across the top, so north is to the 00:57:36
left. 00:57:41
The partially across the top which is you got owned parcel. 00:57:46
And then there are the access points. The shared access points are included there as well. 00:57:52
I don't know if you can. Can you see it very well? OK, so. 00:58:00
There's actually 3. 00:58:06
Free access points. 00:58:12
And then you can see on the furthest N parcel that shared driveway requirement. There's no frontage. That shared access. Shared 00:58:13
driveway doesn't go across the front for that long. 00:58:18
And then you can see across the back the West side of those lots, there is that utility piece that that funds all of all of those 00:58:24
parcels. What's the, what's the actual width and depth of of those lots? 00:58:31
Of. 00:58:41
OK. I can say that on the record. So you pick it up, so there are two 275 feet deep approximately and 150. 00:58:44
275 feet wide. 00:58:55
Yep. 00:58:58
So what we're proposing is a new section code, the Geneva Rd. mixed-use applicable only to that area that was highlighted in 00:59:02
yellow. It is based on regional mixed-use that was the starting starting point on the template. 00:59:10
And as as Morgan mentioned one of the. 00:59:18
The the driving forces in adopting this new zone is to allow more auto centric uses. And the goal isn't just to rezone it to Hwy. 00:59:25
commercial and heavy commercial. That's not the intent. The intent is to take the mixed-use zone and allow some more auto centric 00:59:33
uses while still requiring those things in the mixed-use that are important. 00:59:42
So it's almost a transitional zone between Geneva Road and the regional mixed-use. 00:59:51
And so that's that's the main, one of the main reasons that we're taking this approach. So it does and we do include design 01:00:00
criteria for the buildings and specific lot standards for the loss. So it's not a matter of let's just allow whatever and you can 01:00:07
do whatever and that's one of the things that's why we're here. We're excited for this work session to hear your thoughts as we 01:00:14
work to refine the code. So one of the things. 01:00:20
The the use table generally copied the regional mixed-use for what is permitted, with few exceptions. 01:00:28
As Morgan mentioned, the first one being the vehicle and equipment repair miner and I included the definitions. So the vehicle and 01:00:36
equipment repair major, that is not what we're interested in doing at all As far as auto body repair, you know heavy auto repair 01:00:43
paint. 01:00:50
Heavy equipment repair, that sort of thing. It is the vehicle and equipment repair miner. 01:00:58
So the maintenance, vehicle oil change, facilities, air conditioning repair, the intent is you know vehicles come and are repaired 01:01:04
and leave. It's not that they're stored there that that they're there for an extended period of time is kind of what that the 01:01:11
distinction in general terms between the two. 01:01:17
And then the other one that is a conditional use currently in the RMU is the car wash which would be a permitted use. And we've 01:01:25
we've talked to staff and I think there's several different ways of of going about it. Our approach is to include some very 01:01:33
specific standards that may not be appropriate elsewhere in the city as opposed to amending the code so that all car washes have 01:01:40
to meet these specific standards where we're talking about a limited area we can really. 01:01:48
Dial in to. 01:01:56
Good standards and some good mitigation strategies to include in the code so that it is would be a permitted use. Is the intent 01:01:58
just a question on the the tires? 01:02:04
Would this allow for? 01:02:11
Retail shops that sell only tires, and I mean I noticed there that you can install tires and things like that would be a minor, 01:02:14
but is it also minor to have a? 01:02:19
Tire sales facility like Big O or something like that. Yeah, I mean and typically those places if they're selling them, they're 01:02:25
installing them. 01:02:30
Which is, which is permitted under the repair. I think if they're just selling something, it would be a retailer. Yeah, I think it 01:02:35
would be allowed. Yeah, I think so. 01:02:41
The. 01:02:48
Can you just because I don't know can you share what auto centric? 01:02:51
Can you give us a broad spectrum of what Autocentric would be? I understand car washing and things like that, but what other types 01:02:57
of Autocentric businesses, I mean I think this the vehicle and equipment for a minor kind of talks about those types of uses, so 01:03:03
places that provide oil changes for vehicles that. 01:03:09
And are there others that you can think of that well, I mean, there's places like the two necks that do. 01:03:19
I mean they may do oil changes, but they also do the air conditioning repair, you know the battery front end alignments, 01:03:27
businesses like that. So alignment balancing would be part of that as well. 01:03:34
I'm just trying to. 01:03:43
I'm just trying to picture, as I'm driving down Geneva, what kinds of businesses might I see? 01:03:44
There, yeah. And again, I think the we'll get to it, but the intent is as you're envisioning that is that it's not just a straight 01:03:49
highway commercial type. 01:03:54
Development that there are design standards and design criteria to ensure that it it fits the character of a vineyard and division 01:04:02
of vineyard. 01:04:07
So going through some of the. 01:04:16
Specific standards. So we do talk about the rear alley and then the northern lots being accessed by the rear alley and the desire 01:04:18
to have the buildings placed as close to Geneva Rd. as as possible in the parking areas not permitted in the front yards that the 01:04:27
parking would would be in the rear. So again, kind of a distinction from what a typical. 01:04:36
Highway commercial type business businesses look like so these would sit closer to Geneva than say the AutoZone is because it has 01:04:46
parking in front and that is correct. Yep. So and I guess that's a good litmus test. So to stay as to what is permitted, what's 01:04:53
been permitted there already and the product that's been placed there versus what it what the vision is that we have of what we're 01:05:01
proposing, Do we feel like we're we're pretty comfortable knowing with Geneva. 01:05:08
Plans for Geneva Rd. Where? 01:05:16
Because if, you know, if when it gets widened that we're not putting buildings and businesses, I mean I like having the businesses 01:05:19
close the road, but. 01:05:23
Do we feel like we're comfortable, we know where that's going to land when Geneva gets widened? Yes, through conversations with 01:05:28
with you not as well as as I mentioned in that plat there is that parcel a that buffer already that would allow when I need those 01:05:36
widen for that to be utilized for U dot for their. And typically what we're seeing now U dot is keeping the the sidewalk and park 01:05:43
strip and those things within there right away. So they have control over it. 01:05:50
And that's what the conversation has been what what we anticipate happening there. Because then I guess that would be my next 01:05:58
question is what that interface would look like as it's phased right if if these parcels get developed? 01:06:04
We know Geneva is going to get widened. Where does the sidewalk land? What gets what? What do you do with that space, the 01:06:11
interstitial in between space that's waiting for Geneva to come in. There's a little, there's a little dance there that I'm, I 01:06:19
guess I'm curious how that would play out. The intent is to bring the buildings as close as possible. Where part of the challenge 01:06:27
is there is that shared driveway easement across the front of the lots, especially all of the southern lots and so. 01:06:35
What we're proposing is that the setbacks are measured off that 20 foot. 01:06:45
A 25 foot access easement in the front where that's required, where that's not required that we're able to push the buildings a 01:06:50
little bit further. 01:06:54
Closer to the road which is further north in the subdivision and that that strip actually gets wider, so there is more room for U 01:07:01
dot to develop within the right of way within that park strip in that in the northern portion of the the development. 01:07:08
So would you not be putting in the sidewalks and stuff along there or would that be part of the development requirements on the 01:07:16
City side? 01:07:20
So for on the with the Geneva comment going through D dollar typically like real estate of DDOP would like to have the actual 01:07:25
sidewalks within the UDAB right away it's U dot. If there's any kind of connections along I want to Geneva that the developer is 01:07:32
going to be discussing E dot D dot criteria that's between E dot and developer at that time. 01:07:39
So again, these are an excellent questions and that's really what's unique about this area that you know elsewhere in the Army you 01:07:49
obviously don't have these kinds of. 01:07:53
Questions and issues. So Jason, can you clarify then on the on the front floor lots you're showing in in the plat that that front 01:07:58
easement, our preference obviously is to not have a driveway in front of the mixed-use building. Would you be amending the plat to 01:08:06
pull that back off of off of those four lots? So we probably need to get into a little more, little more detail where we don't 01:08:14
have site designs and specific uses identified for each of each of the laws. 01:08:22
And so I. 01:08:30
Yeah. I mean the intent with with this was that the Northern 4 lots are accessed by the alley to allow that flexibility of a of a 01:08:32
mixed-use development and mixed-use project there. However, the, you know we're not proposing the code to identify a specific use 01:08:40
for each specific law per SE. Yeah. And I don't think we are either, but I think it's like kind of the unifying theme is like the 01:08:48
north be be mixed-use and so that that's where I'm maybe having a little consternation is having the. 01:08:56
They are accessed via the rear cool. 01:09:37
What? Is there a proposed height limit in this? Are you changing that it's staying with what the RMU is, so it's #5 on page 2. 01:09:41
So 66 feet. And that's what's currently zoned for that area anyway. 01:09:53
I don't what what stops this development? Well, I guess the question is what? What makes this difference that we don't end up kind 01:09:58
of like State Street and where? 01:10:02
Where it takes forever to turn in and out of a similar I think shopping centers and locations like this, what would the I guess 01:10:08
parking and and traffic situation be like? So I think really the rear alley across the lots is especially those northern lots and 01:10:15
the limited access points that are. 01:10:22
Between the rear alley, the limited access points off Geneva Road and the front share drive on, the other locks are really what 01:10:31
makes this a lot different. 01:10:36
Than our standard strip mall type development or orange straight through State Street where every lot has has a driveway and has 01:10:42
an access. That's a really good point. I mean consolidating driveway, I mean you look at 10 lots if you have 3. 01:10:48
Entry points into the site. I mean that's that's seven less than what like a State Street configuration would have. Additionally 01:10:57
to we have a sign ordinance that's a lot different than what the historic forum sign ordinance was, but that's where all those are 01:11:01
vested. Jeff knows this described very well. 01:11:06
Having have worked on State Street but we so our sign code doesn't allow for just your straight pull signs that they see on 01:11:12
station. That actually has a pretty big impact. I think you guys intention too is like your standalone sign would be more of a 01:11:17
multi tenant sign right like consolidating signage. So you're not going to have 10 separate like no monument signs on the street, 01:11:23
your brain try to consolidate them. 01:11:28
That answer your question? 01:11:36
So I can't help but feel like writing a new zoning ordinance is just a way to get more. 01:11:39
Units Residential units in A. 01:11:48
You didn't mention really anything about residential units and that's going to be the big sticking point for a lot of people 01:11:51
because you have to alloy the Concord, the Vine, Lincoln Square, all of those areas are. 01:11:57
Mixed-use and none of them have any retail in them. 01:12:03
And then we just added the, the apartments just north with the top golf facility. Really I don't want to see any residential use 01:12:08
in this area at all because this is supposed to be the mixed-use for Concorde Divine Lincoln Square, the alloy. 01:12:16
And yeah, I just want to say that right now for. 01:12:26
What? What is? What was your intention with any kind of residential? 01:12:29
So on page two, number three is the residential intensity but. 01:12:36
I mean I think we'll be honest that the intent is this is a commercial development. It is a pullover from the regional mixed-use 01:12:40
zone and that that is an aspect of the mixed-use zone is residential. And so there was talk of including residential units on the 01:12:50
second story type with a you know a commercial first story. We are identifying that if. 01:13:00
Residential is to happen. It is going to be done through the development agreement. 01:13:10
So that's I guess that's if it goes up to 85 units. So currently the RMU is at the 26 units per acre. 01:13:20
Is that the current? Yes. And there has the development stipulation that was that was placed that's also in the RMU? Yeah, yeah, 01:13:28
that that was done through the, the, the, the, the text amendment that happened last year, but it's maxed out currently as far as 01:13:34
residential units goes. So technically there can't be any residential units here unless. 01:13:40
So 66 feet is how many floors stories. 01:15:01
Is that two or three 563? Yeah, it depends on the office buildings, probably be a little bit less on a residential. I think you 01:15:06
can crunch them in a, but it depends on how they're designed. 01:15:13
And so if these are multi storied and it sounds like some of them will be. 01:15:21
If residences weren't on those upper floors, what would then go in businesses, I mean private offices is that what could draw. So 01:15:27
I I guess they're yeah office is a possibility. There is no requirement that they build to that height and and the other thing to 01:15:35
remember is the site size, there are big constraints on the site size as far as going extremely tall and so yes, I mean if it was 01:15:43
going to be a multi story mixed-use typically. 01:15:51
What's on those additional stories are residential and office space. 01:15:59
Steve Hutchings, Sex development, Most likely on that corner if we don't get residential, which honestly, we're not saying, hey, 01:16:06
we need residential on this. 01:16:10
It was brought up to us by staff saying that'd be really cool because of our N development, this residential, maybe having 01:16:16
something that mirrors that and really having that really good entrance into Vineyard where I think the city staff and other 01:16:22
people have been dissatisfied with Center St. and kind of how that entrance. 01:16:28
Turned out I see 800 N is the open field at the well on the corner and like how that's turned out and so we we were like OK yeah 01:16:35
we're we're OK to look into this. So but we're not coming saying let's let's go in let's add a whole bunch of other units. If we 01:16:45
don't do a six story residential what name level commercial then most likely that corner would be a one story building. 01:16:54
Developing an office right now? We'd love to, but like. 01:17:05
We've had one tenant come in, you know, in the last. 01:17:08
You know like three years, two years and then you had actually brought the tenant to us and. 01:17:13
Was. You know, we actually really love that tenant, but. 01:17:18
Not sure if there's a deal to be made there or not, especially on this site with the amount of square footage they need. I don't 01:17:22
think it's likely that it would be mainstream main level commercial, you know, like retail with office above. You know, if there's 01:17:28
demand for that. Personally, I'd love to. You know that I don't know if the parking would allow like we we have a little site 01:17:34
layout with the parking structure that would be very similar to our N site. We have 6 levels of parking and basically almost 01:17:41
mimicking the exact same thing. 01:17:47
That's the only reason it's in there, you know? So we're we're honestly fine either way. Cool. 01:17:53
I would just mirror. 01:18:02
Rice's comments. 01:18:04
I don't like the idea of anymore residents residential. 01:18:06
Along that area at all. 01:18:12
I think we've gone back on our word not word that been on our plans and we've made amendments to allow for for it and. 01:18:14
I'd just like to see us use it for other commercial uses or. 01:18:23
That type of thing. 01:18:27
For the setbacks are these, is this, is this unique? This seems pretty, you know, 5 feet setbacks and minimum setbacks between 01:18:30
buildings it seems. 01:18:34
Not very big in terms of a set back distance. Is this unique compared to two other districts we have? Yeah, I mean our residential 01:18:40
districts have fairly large like 20 feet and then a lot of cases. So we have to, I don't, I don't have this pulled up but do you 01:18:46
have this the setbacks for for this? 01:18:51
It's the next one. How about that? OK, great. So we are, I think what's a bit unique about the site one is the easements across 01:18:59
the properties. And so where are those easements exist in that sense where? 01:19:06
Utilize that as as the set back so it's thirty across the front and 35 across the rear. 01:19:13
So I mean and that's that's more generous than what you find in most commercial zones. Granted it is intended that the access way 01:19:23
would would be utilized within that set back, the front set back with the the five feet when that cross access easement isn't 01:19:30
there. Our thoughts and the justification for that is typically within that set back you have the sidewalk, you have the park 01:19:37
strip, you have these other improvements however. 01:19:44
Where you dot is going to be utilizing those in the right of way that in essence to be able to facilitate a. 01:19:51
Larger buildings as well as creating that unique feel. 01:20:00
I guess my concern is you look at what we have over by the theater right now and it's you go there on the weekend and it's so 01:21:20
tight and congested still, even even with parking spots open, just driving through, trying to get around, you have to wait for a 01:21:26
car to make a turn so you can then turn. And I want to make sure we account for that with with the density so residents don't 01:21:32
immediately just start complaining of wow, it's so hard to drive around in this place and there's no room. 01:21:38
And so, and I think one of the things to keep in mind that is a kind of a throwback or pulling in with with the mixed-use is the 01:21:45
pedestrian accessibility is also key and vital. You know, the intent is that there are pedestrian access ways and pedestrian 01:21:53
connections so that people don't have to drive. I mean, obviously if you're going to Jiffy Lube, you're going to bring your car. 01:22:00
But as as restaurants come in, as offices come in, as other mixed uses, resident or retail uses come in. 01:22:08
That the. 01:22:16
You don't necessarily have to drive there because there are those pedestrian connections as well. 01:22:17
Yeah, I I would. So I think on the setbacks on this conversation, I think that, um. 01:22:24
I think if this is supposed to be a mixed-use district. 01:22:30
I think it's OK if it's a little awkward to drive through and to get around and that hopefully it's the commercial that's there 01:22:33
does. 01:22:39
Create more pedestrian connections and for the people that are living in that district and that's the idea that can live there in 01:22:44
a year point Bryce, you know this was supposed to be a mixed-use district all along. We have several residential developments that 01:22:51
never did the commercial right And so now they're they got to walk to the commercial that's been built out in the yard so. 01:22:58
So I I'm, I think the, the setbacks, you know, close the road, all of that's good. 01:23:06
And and I I have a little little bit of a different perspective I think on the housing than than what Bryce and Tim have. 01:23:13
I think if we are going to add more housing and more apartments, you know, more vertical housing, this is where we would want it 01:23:21
to be. You know we're on Geneva Rd. We're on good access, you know, presumably good public transportation through there. We're 01:23:29
adjacent to the commercial. So we, you know that's a place for that type of housing to be to support the commercial I think. 01:23:38
I probably would have not recommended ever having a cap on the units in the the district altogether because I don't think that 01:23:47
that I don't think that that actually regulates the quality. It as we've talked about it didn't there were there were developments 01:23:55
that were done and it didn't actually weren't actually in alignment with the vision, the goals of the district to begin with. So 01:24:03
we kind of got off this funny start with it anyway And so to me the the cap, the number of units is a little arbitrary. 01:24:10
If if there's a development where it makes sense to have, where we can get the commercial that we need, but if we can still build 01:24:18
housing units above it. 01:24:23
I still feel really strong. We have a housing issue that needs where we need more of the housing as a region and I know we've had 01:24:29
this conversation that vineyards done its fair share compared to most other towns and I would agree, but I also think housing in 01:24:34
this location. 01:24:39
We're not impacting traffic and any other neighborhoods. We're just providing more people to support the businesses, you know, in 01:24:45
that area. So I don't mind housing as it relates to being close to the. 01:24:51
To on the northern end, right and where people in those housing units can walk to the the commercial is just like in that the the 01:24:58
development agreement that we did on the product around Topgolf where we're allowing more housing. So my personal stance is if 01:25:05
we're going to do housing that's a good place to add housing. 01:25:11
I I probably have more concerns about the auto oriented adding the auto oriented businesses in there. I get that Geneva roads a 01:25:20
big road and and and but I think the car wash issue for me is particularly a really sensitive one to look into because I I know 01:25:26
that the one in Orem by target. 01:25:33
My sister used to live in that neighborhood and that woody wash car wash has like made it unlivable for some people in that 01:25:41
neighborhood. So I get concerned about having a car wash is back. You know, back to. 01:25:47
The existing residences and if there is any discussion of adding any more residential in this area I I that increases my concern 01:25:55
of of like a car wash use just and because and the the complaint there is that the noise of the blowers as you're coming out of 01:26:01
the car wash. 01:26:06
And and it you know that people can't that live next to it. They can't go outside and have conversation outside their house. And I 01:26:14
know that there's some setbacks and guidance in here. I don't without doing more research, I don't know if it's enough. 01:26:20
To prevent some of those negative impacts from from a car wash, use UM. 01:26:26
So that I think I have a little bit of concerns and I and I'm having a hard time envisioning mixed-use with auto. Some of the auto 01:26:32
oriented uses that we've talked about. I can't think of examples in my head where I've seen an oil change you know establishment 01:26:40
that's that's mixed-use, you know that's that's worked well with mixed-use. So I I'm stuck on that and then I I do agree you know 01:26:48
we we could say from a city sample what we want commercial on offices there. 01:26:56
The forge isn't developing right and and that's office, right and and so the the demand the market isn't there right now for the 01:27:05
large office in this area. We'll talk about wanting hotel. We've talked about how we'd love to build a hotel. Hotels aren't 01:27:10
building. They're not interested right now in developing and so I. 01:27:15
Anyway, I think that was kind of my thoughts. I I'm still not 100% sold on this, on the auto oriented aspect of it. I still think 01:27:23
I want to. 01:27:28
To try to emphasize this, more of a mixed-use district, the walkable district, the more urban aspect. 01:27:33
And and I'm personally OK with the idea of housing if it's proposed in the right parameters and we are getting the commercial uses 01:27:42
and the housing is a bonus to it. It's not in place of I would strike out. 01:27:48
The. 01:27:55
Right in section B under 3 under residential intensity. 01:27:56
I wouldn't. I don't. I I don't think we want anything where it standalone residential. If if we're getting commercial and there's 01:28:01
some housing units above it, I'd entertain that, but not nothing standalone residential. 01:28:06
I wanted to go off of that a little bit too, as far as adding mixed-use the residential. I do think that being on Geneva Rd. is 01:28:14
the right place to have units, but I. 01:28:21
And I don't have a problem with units. My problem is that this area, the whole area was sold and zoned was sold to Vineyard zoned 01:28:28
as a mixed-use. So Vineyard was anticipating a certain amount of commercial to get some kind of tax dollars from I. 01:28:38
Residential units do not bring tax dollars into the city and. 01:28:48
So having this area, if we it was at least like something as far as commercial where we can get tax dollars. I agree that yeah, 01:28:55
there could be mixed-use here, but there would have to be a heck of a lot of commercial for me to feel comfortable with that 01:29:01
because this I feel like needs to be making up for everywhere else that screwed up. 01:29:08
Because this was sold as a whole. And the last person that made this agreed to it. The the people that sold it to them agreed to 01:29:16
it. The people who sold it to them agreed to it. And that's how it was done and that's how it was sold to the city. And that's how 01:29:22
I think it should be. We need those tax dollars. We need commercial. While I agree that, yes, this would be a good place for 01:29:28
residential, because if it's not impacting the most of the city, it's they're going to be getting off on Geneva and going their 01:29:34
merry way, but. 01:29:40
We need the tax dollars and the fact that there's nothing in the Vine, Lincoln Square, Concord, all of those areas, no tax dollars 01:29:46
there. We need, we need that. And so if this had like huge commercial, like a ton of commercial bringing in a lot of tax dollars, 01:29:52
yeah, I could see. I could see there being some residential above that. 01:29:58
Yeah, just a thought. And did I agree a little bit more with Jeff? 01:30:06
And a little bit between him and Bryce. So like a literally. 01:30:12
OK, so. 01:30:22
I agree absolutely. 01:30:24
With striking out three B and residential incentive intensity, we shouldn't be having any standalone residential through there. 01:30:27
Let's see. 01:30:37
And uh. 01:30:39
I actually lived in Edgewater, so this is. 01:30:42
Very directly impacting me. 01:30:45
Try to keep my opinions that way out of it as far as. 01:30:48
Those northern lots and comfortable with the idea of residential above commercial. 01:30:54
But I want. 01:31:02
At 1966 feet is too high for that. 01:31:06
That I think that would help with like not the height issue and overall intensity. 01:31:53
Yeah. And I think that combined with. 01:31:57
Perhaps, maybe number of units per? 01:32:02
Building depending on size. 01:32:05
That way, and that helped mitigate. 01:32:08
Help mitigate parking issues, despite virtue of how big or small the apartments are, and also ensuring that. 01:32:14
The commercial parking lot to be used for both which would be nice because then we're just doubling that up, which is I mean 01:32:26
always my goal just to double up the residential and commercial use of this parking lot cause. 01:32:32
But yeah, all those parking lots to the north of my neighborhood are just empty. And then everyone's parking in your dirt lots, 01:32:39
and it's not a good deal for anybody. 01:32:44
Yeah. And then ideally, 400 N is connected and we have a lot less traffic issues right there, but. 01:32:53
Yeah, I don't super love the idea of a car wash right there. It's gonna be really loud. 01:33:03
Even if we planted the biggest trees we could find, there would be years before that would block any sand. 01:33:08
And there's a lot of people, right? There is there is there already a fence separating that? There is one of the big ones. 01:33:14
Yeah, but it's not gonna. Yeah. I mean, in theory. I also have 4 kids and I'm not making any promises. 01:33:25
OK. Yeah. Is that, is that something you guys can maybe address some of the the development standards you've been considering for, 01:33:39
for the car wash? Because I think that placement of blowers, dryers that there's hours of operation, a lot of those things, if 01:33:43
they're forced even could actually make it. So the two uses could be somewhat compatible. I don't know if you're prepared for 01:33:47
that. 01:33:52
Next one, so the car wash, so I mean these are some of the things that that we've identified that. 01:33:59
There is a 50 foot set back from the property line when it's adjacent I. 01:34:08
To a residential use, the outdoor vacuums are at least 25 feet. 01:34:14
One of the things that I think our intent was but I as become this conversation has happened that the exit, the exit would be 01:34:20
facing Geneva Rd. 01:34:25
Blowers. The dryer. 01:34:32
Yes. Yeah, that's one thing. But we also have noise ordinances as well, correct and so. 01:34:34
Yeah. 01:34:43
Those would be enforceable then we'd want to consider like these commercial units to the north like they're going to be getting 01:34:45
that stand up there whether we would like to see maybe some restaurants it's an outdoor dining and it's that would make it 01:34:52
untenable. So and I think it kind of goes to Jeff's comments of the auto oriented and and the mixed-use. You know the site really 01:35:00
is unique and one of the challenges that we're trying to thread the needle on is providing. 01:35:07
Commercially viable property for those autocentric uses which is very limited in Vineyard right now as well as trying to make up 01:35:16
all the mixed-use commercial's. 01:35:21
From the RMU and so really it's no small task. We are really trying to thread that needle and we we think it's possible. We think 01:35:28
that what we've proposed here it is a bit unique to allow those more auto centric uses as well as the mixed-use uses. And you know 01:35:36
maybe we could work on clarifying it as well. I know we've talked about before loss of the North and and maybe we could go back 01:35:43
and look at some additional distinctions there but. 01:35:51
I mean, the reality is that, you know, we feel that we can pull it off and we think that this is a a good place. 01:35:59
For all of those uses. 01:36:08
Yes, there's going to be challenges whatever the use might be, but we're we're hopeful that we can adopt standards that make it. 01:36:11
Nice to drive by as well as nice to visit you guys to walk through and sit next to. So being a being a zoning text amendment, you 01:36:25
are allowed to request things that help to inform your study. And so I'm sure there's a, there's a sound engineer out there that 01:36:32
that you guys would be able to to contact and maybe have them look at because I I know you guys are working with someone but 01:36:38
they'll be looking at that type of use, they're doing some sound studies and that that could potentially help employment like this 01:36:45
type of conversation. 01:36:51
I could do an informal one where I go walk around and see who can hear me because I have a very soft voice. So yeah, I mean, if 01:36:59
they're if they're obeying our ordinances, as far as sound and stuff goes, I think we're good. And personally, I like car washes. 01:37:05
They bring in a lot of tax dollars to the city. 01:37:12
And I think Vineyard City needs one side. I don't think we should write off car washes, but we need to absolutely make sure that 01:37:20
they meet. I mean, I'd love a car wash by the house, but maybe not by my house. Yeah. Well, if they're meeting the ordinances, you 01:37:26
shouldn't notice that it's there. I mean, in theory, right? Yeah. I mean, but, I mean, that's why we have the ordinances. And as 01:37:33
they're writing the orders, too, I think this is a good opportunity to say, well, you're saying blowers are 25 feet from the 01:37:40
residential property line. 01:37:46
There they put all the vacuums adjacent to to where some of the residents live and we just got to get really careful about that or 01:38:26
it's going to be the next 20 years of receiving code complaints, right? Like, I kind of like, I kind of wish like the, you know. 01:38:32
That could be something more. 01:38:40
Where's the map? 01:38:43
On Mill Rd. By the by the businesses. 01:38:47
You know, Cornell Mill Rd. I think would make the most sense for car wash personally, far away from where everybody is living and 01:38:50
sleeping and talking. 01:38:55
There's similar kinds of noise concerns with the pneumatic wrenches that are used. They can get very loud as well, changing tires 01:39:01
and that type of thing anyway. 01:39:07
I would just be curious what our noise ordinance is and what the typical sound, you know? 01:39:15
Output of a car wash is and see see how that tracks. Because maybe maybe all these car washes are in violation of stuffed 01:39:22
ordinances in different towns. But because we want the tax dollars we want the businesses we I don't know I just know. I just know 01:39:29
that one in in arms been a significant problem for that adjacent neighborhood and there it just. I was just looking at the parcel 01:39:35
map it looks like it's. 01:39:41
It's more than 50 feet away from the property line, but because the dryers face the houses, it's it's a significant problem. So I 01:39:49
think if we can address that have the drivers on the other side, you know, I think. 01:39:55
And can how it would fit in with our own decibel sound words. And I mean not all car washes have blowers too supersonic and Norm 01:40:33
doesn't have blowers. 01:40:37
So that's just true if it's designed right. I mean, we just need to make it say the right thing as to to make sure that it's 01:40:42
designed right, if we want to have it right. And as far as like Jiffy Lube stuff, we just got to make sure that if they're close 01:40:47
to residents. 01:40:51
That they just need to be enclosed. It's as simple as that. They just not have open Bay stuff, but I think that it's definitely 01:40:58
something that we could work work with. 01:41:02
Yeah, I agree. I would maybe say too, going back on the housing element, I was reflecting on that last project that we reviewed. 01:41:08
On the Northside of a 400 and and a lot of the the argument or not an argument but a lot of the the reason to. 01:41:17
Entertain that housing component was because we were getting this big commercial. 01:41:27
Not tenant. 01:41:34
Draw with Top Golf. 01:41:35
I think we would need that same incentive. 01:41:39
Not, not another top golf, but you know. 01:41:42
I think, I think I think it's going to be a similar criteria of if they're if we're meeting the, I'm glad that Bryce has made this 01:41:47
point like the the the the main purpose and the thing that you know we really want to get out of this property is the commercial 01:41:56
use. So if there's a way to to really demonstrate that that the city gets the commercial. 01:42:04
Activity and gets the draw. 01:42:13
And if that is met and not that, that's not. 01:42:17
This little component of it to do a big housing project, we're getting a little corner coffee shop commercial use, but we're 01:42:21
getting a a legitimate commercial draw out of the project. 01:42:27
Then maybe there's there's room to look at the residential in addition to that. 01:42:33
Is that fair to say, Bryce? 01:42:39
Morgan would be possible at the next meeting if. 01:42:43
To get some education what's happening on Geneva, I guess expansion and things like that. I I don't know anything about that. So 01:42:47
it'd be beneficial going forward in these discussions to. 01:42:53
Why don't I I'll deal with with the same and and we'll talk with our partners over at U dot if we could maybe we are doing a joint 01:42:58
work session in June with the City Council and I'll send out send out the date I believe trying to remember the do you remember 01:43:04
the date on that you know. 01:43:10
But that that actually might might be a good one too because I think they'll want to to have a you know that kind of that that 01:43:18
same work session. So and I've got to give you some time second week of June. 01:43:23
Would that be OK? Now they get some time to prep. 01:43:30
Absolutely. 01:43:34
Anything else I can go back to the fire appliance model or did you, did you as applicants have anything else you wanted to touch 01:43:38
on? No, I mean we really appreciate your comments and quite honestly, I think we tend to agree, you know, talking about the 01:43:44
residential aspect even in the introduction as I went through in this last revision like you talk more about residential, they 01:43:50
took it out, they modified it because recognizing that that's not not the driving factor here. And so I think, I mean I think 01:43:56
we're on the same page. 01:44:01
And mitigating the impacts on the residential neighborhood, we recognize that that that's a concern and want want to work on 01:44:08
coming up with standards you know that we're comfortable with and that that are effective not just looking on paper. 01:44:15
Who's actually building commercial and so I so in a way that that that that I think that that helped us with with the north of 400 01:44:26
N because they're they're they're legit they they say they're going to build something and they they build it. 01:44:33
And so I I think there was just because of the history we've had with them and their pattern building commercial time and time 01:44:41
again that we install it worked really well on that deal. So maybe, you know we explore something similar. Yeah, it was. It would 01:44:47
be cool to not just have the forge to walk to from my house. I just. 01:44:53
I wanna get out, you know, Just sounds like a thanks straw for hundreds of people just right there, right around the corner. 01:45:00
You know, maybe someday. 01:45:10
I think the only other thing that I haven't mentioned is we do allow, I want to make sure to point out that we do allow shared 01:45:13
parking and anticipate that being a further conversation of of shared parking. 01:45:20
So again, trying to be mindful of where we're at and the issues and constraints and coming up with a solution that that works for 01:45:28
everyone. Cool. 01:45:33
Thanks. 01:45:40
Thanks guys. 01:45:41
Right, thanks. And I don't know if you guys want to hang out for 10 minutes. The next presentation actually deals with Mill Rd. of 01:45:43
400 N and some of the conversations that we've had kind of on a periphery of that the the development agreement, but the BYU class 01:45:49
put together not I'm not trying to steal your center, but put together really great class project. And Brian going to run through 01:45:56
it just to show the the plantation you're a lot of leave, I'm just saying if you want to stay. 01:46:02
Is Brian promising to keep you 10 minutes or is this? 01:46:09
Maybe 15. 01:46:14
Sorry. 01:46:22
All right, Brian, my hair safe one, Yes spoke. We had. We invited BYU 510 geography classes, or Capstone class to work with us to 01:46:24
collaborate with Vineyard City. We thought there's an existing need for roadway infrastructure improvements along 400 N and along 01:46:34
Mill Rd. There's currently safety issues for pedestrians and cyclists and vehicles, accessibility and connectivity issues. 01:46:44
That could be improved, a reduction in auto dependency. We could use more amenities and of course there's always room for more 01:46:54
parking in Vineyard. So the two the BYU classified up into two groups, it was a Mill Rd. project and then there was a 400 N group 01:47:00
project and then they both came together at the end of the semester and kind of provided A convinced comprehensive set of 01:47:07
recommendations in a in a planning document. 01:47:13
So just to give a little background, Vineyard as we know our population is growing immensely. By 2050, the Mountain Association of 01:47:22
Governments anticipates that our population will double and that our employment base will quadruple by 2050. 01:47:29
Currently along Mill Rd. there's less than 6000 trips per day, but by that time, by 2015 there's going to be anywhere between 6000 01:47:38
to 18,000 trips per day on Mill Rd. So lots more activity. 01:47:43
But that being said, the current size of Mill Rd. which is 55, sorry, not 50 lanes, 5 lanes, 5 lanes exceeds the current and 01:47:50
projected demand even though there there will be that amount of growth. So it's it's quite, I guess there's just a lot of space 01:47:57
there. 01:48:03
Umm, so future development, we have the UVU vineyard campus expansion going on, that's going to be, that's going to provide more 01:48:11
educational facilities, offices and there's conversations about student housing. The Forge mixes development with which was just 01:48:19
mentioned, more retail offices and essential The Yard A&B which is being currently being developed by 50 Mill LLC. The the 01:48:26
applicants that just spoke, they're providing retail services, offices and added residential. 01:48:34
And then there are upcoming transit connections along the road to the Front Runner station and to that transit. How that's coming 01:48:43
in the near future? 01:48:48
Here, the overarching goals of their project. I'm trying to speak as best to their project as I can. They want to improve West to 01:48:55
east pressing connectivity. They want to balance the north to South multimodal transportation, and they want to provide pedestrian 01:49:02
connectivity between all those developments that are in and around this part of Vineyard and leading to the downtown. 01:49:10
So here the existing conditions on Mill Rd. the existing right of way is 98 feet five lanes. They're in some places there are no 01:49:18
sidewalks and others there are but they they don't always connect. There's no crosswalks at the at the time and that's partially 01:49:25
due because there's not a lot of land use activity on the on the West side of Mill Rd. 01:49:32
There there is a bike lane on one side of the road, but it's it exhibits a low quality of service. It's probably like 3 feet wide 01:49:40
and you're it's scary to to ride on there. 01:49:46
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. 01:49:56
It's a crazy one. So in general it's it's unfavorable to pedestrians and to cyclists and in terms of vegetation there's very 01:49:59
limited green space. 01:50:04
These are their dining principles, some of the best practices that they wanted to encourage that would facilitate alternative 01:50:10
modes of transportation. They suggested expanding sidewalks. 01:50:15
Adding separated or protected bike lanes providing physical barriers between pedestrian, cyclists and vehicles. Safer 01:50:21
intersections. 01:50:25
Lowering the speed limits appropriately and a right sizing of no Rd. 01:50:29
In general we they they think that we need to shift the focus from the current audio auto oriented design to more of the 01:50:35
multimodal design and here are some of their concepts. This is a street section that shows a median. So a new design of Mill Rd. 01:50:41
that includes A median with parking. 01:50:47
And I'll give you a little more time to look at that. I just went through really quick. 01:50:55
So this this design keeps two lanes in both directions but. 01:51:00
It kind of plays around with with the widths of of each lane to be able to add a a median with vegetation in the middle and and A 01:51:06
and a parking a lane of parking that's 8 foot wide along that medium. 01:51:13
So here the some of the some things that some more things that are features. Separates the flows of traffic with the median. 01:51:22
Retains 4 lanes of traffic. Provides on street parking as protected bike lanes expand some of the sidewalks provides landscaping 01:51:29
and and St. trees reduces vehicular travel speeds and provides parking other twice. 01:51:36
Here are some examples that they provided to go along with their design of of where it's been done in other places. 01:51:45
And here's a local example. I believe there's images from Provo. Yeah, so this is Center St. on Provo. 01:51:54
And as we all know, we all been there. So it's a great place. It's a very pedestrian friendly. Traffic is slowed down to 50 mph. 01:52:01
That's not what they're recommending per se, but. 01:52:06
Take Providing a more appropriate speed for safer conditions is what they're trying to get up. 01:52:11
Here's a second design. It's a It's a road diet. So a road diet is when you take. 01:52:20
Added or excessive amounts of lanes and retrofit them for another use, usually simply for for parking. But that added space that 01:52:27
is gained can also be used for bike lanes, for wider sidewalks, for street trees, mediums, things like that. 01:52:35
So this one uses. The unique features about this one is that it transforms the 2 outer traffic lanes into street parking. It 01:52:43
provides one lane of traffic in both directions. 01:52:49
10 to 12 foot sidewalks on either side. It retains those protected bike lanes and provides that separation or those those physical 01:52:56
barriers inserts those physical barriers between pedestrians and moving traffic and and as the parking. 01:53:03
There's a SketchUp model that they worked on. This is I think it was pretty nicely done, just showing that there there can be gaps 01:53:12
in the medians for for left turns or for turning around if necessary. 01:53:19
This road design concept would also provide flashing beacons for pedestrians. 01:53:29
No, that's still on the road. Yeah, that's still on the road. 01:53:38
And in general, it provides more room for walking, cycling and the other elements that I mentioned. 01:53:43
Intersection design was a big thing that we asked them, that we asked the students to highlight. So they thought that there is a 01:53:52
need for an intersection, a more complete intersection somewhere between 400 N and Vineyard Connector. And they felt that the best 01:53:59
placement for that intersection with those added treatments would be at E 650 N and Mill Rd. So that's the street just above the 01:54:06
entrance into. 01:54:13
Like where the Panda Express is. So it's kind of like that that middle section area between the interconnector and 400 N. 01:54:20
They thought that that design, whatever it may be, should provide kind of a gateway entrance or gateway experience into not just 01:54:28
vineyard, but into the area as a whole, as a shopping, as a regional shopping attraction and to UVU. 01:54:35
Campus and their preferred design would be what's called a protected roundabout. 01:54:44
Here's another SketchUp concept that they provided for us. 01:54:51
And here's some. So this is an aerial and then the following image shows. 01:54:56
Places where it's been adopted. So let's talk about the features of this design and why they felt this was important. 01:55:03
It is protected, A protected dedicated track around the roundabout for cyclists. It clearly Marks and designates sidewalks. It 01:55:12
provides space for vehicles that are waiting to get into into into the roundabout and also provide space for vehicle running to 01:55:19
get out of the roundabout. So here's the image again. 01:55:25
Visibility is a big feature of this roundabout. 01:55:33
So you're you're always able to see pedestrians coming and cyclists coming, and vehicles that are approaching. It provides 01:55:38
flashing beacons for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians each crosswalk I. 01:55:43
OK. So moving on to the 400 N concepts. 01:55:51
So they are looking at a total future residential unit count of 3175. And this image that's hard to see, it kind of shows the 01:55:58
numbers. But this projection does not include the potential residential that UVU might provide is because I don't know, we don't 01:56:06
know that even UVU knows what they're going to provide. So there's no way to account for that at the moment. 01:56:13
They. 01:56:22
They think that or they want to provide. 01:56:25
These intersection treatments at in these areas, So at 400 sorry at Mill Rd. At 710 E and at Geneva and 400. 01:56:28
As a side project, we didn't ask this from them. This kind of went outside of the scope of what we requested. 01:56:40
They provided some recommendations for the trail that is along the east side of the railroad tracks that would connect all the way 01:56:47
up to the front runner. So they recommended some improvements along there and their ideas are actually interesting. 01:56:54
So here's some of the guiding principles for the for the group that did the 400 N project, they thought that our intersections and 01:57:02
our infrastructure should foster a greater sense of identity. 01:57:07
Greater sense of place. 01:57:13
They should provide wider sidewalks. We should incorporate extended curbs to increase safety and to reduce car speeds, and also to 01:57:16
limit the distance that people, pedestrians need to travel from one side of the street to the other. That we should use color and 01:57:23
design elements to to inform how people use the infrastructure. 01:57:30
And of course, enhance our green space to provide unique urban spaces, especially along the trails. So it's not always just about 01:57:39
the destination that we're trying to get to, It's about having a fun and interesting walk or bicycle ride on the way to your 01:57:45
destinations. 01:57:51
Here's some one of the elements that they recommended is painted crossings and they're these can be there's a million ways to do 01:57:58
these different cities do these differently but something that kind of highlights who we are our identity maybe even our history 01:58:04
as we mentioned earlier and and this our our brand as as Vineyard. 01:58:10
Here's some SketchUp models that they did. 01:58:17
1 of the recommendations was a pedestrian bridge over the railroad at 400 N That's an area that is lacking connectivity big time 01:58:20
that that bifurcation that's caused by the by the railroad is is really accentuated in this region and having some way or form of 01:58:28
getting from I guess West of the near to east vineyard would would be really good. And here's some branding that that could be 01:58:35
done. 01:58:43
Actually, can I make a comment on that? So apparently the the Alpine school district they discussed eliminating buses from. 01:58:51
They are okay. So and that's something multiple residents actually asked me to bring up was the fact that individuals that live. 01:59:02
Without having to walk on these other roads because I can't think of one parent that wants their kids walking on that Interchange 01:59:41
Rd. So yeah, that's part of their safe route right now is your connector or the Center St. overpass. Yeah, I kindergartener. I 01:59:46
can't imagine that, Yeah. 01:59:52
There's a lot of reasons to want to make this connection, but I love it. Approved. Yeah. No, we loved it too. We loved it too. And 01:59:59
that that that's a whole. And to do that right, we have to work with the railroad. 02:00:05
Yeah, you should. 02:00:19
They say that in the very least because right now we don't have anything that is a clear and permitted access way Their their 02:00:21
thought was this is an alternative crossing that in the rallies has a little what we call this like a. 02:00:29
Now the language here and I agree. Crossing yeah. 02:00:37
Curiosity. 02:00:42
OK, I was gonna say, like, what are the chances of getting in that grade? Because it's way easier to cross and actually people are 02:00:44
only accurate, more likely to use it. Yeah, it'd be cool. Yeah, I think that's what they're going for is not a vehicular, but just 02:00:49
a pedestrian. 02:00:53
Parents volunteer across the garden. 02:00:59
Yeah. 02:01:04
So here's the part that they highlighted about the trail on the east side of the railroad. 02:01:09
So, So what are my other pictures? I think I might have got my pictures romance up here. I know it's a little further on. Anyways, 02:01:18
this slide and some of the other sides, we'll kind of highlight the the interesting things that you can see along the trail and 02:01:25
what we'll we'll get to a little more of that later. Protecting intersections, the protection intersection is basically a design 02:01:32
that incorporates like physical barriers between turning and moving vehicles. 02:01:40
And and cyclists and pedestrians. It's designed to allow Panestians and cyclists to be seen by by moving vehicles and to have 02:01:48
spaces actually within the roadway, but are safe spaces where they can basically have refuge and wait for safe opportunities to 02:01:55
cross and have clear visibility. So I think that would be great if we, if we can incorporate some of these these elements, there's 02:02:03
not just one single way to do a protected. 02:02:10
Intersection. 02:02:18
I think there's also Was it called a dedicated intersection that incorporates. 02:02:19
Not as expensive elements like this because these are a lot of permanent infrastructural elements, but there are other things that 02:02:25
we could do. 02:02:29
With more movable objects that would provide a lot of the same features, but so there's there's options there. So I think the 02:02:34
proposition was to do this at 400 and No Road and that 710 E. 02:02:41
So here's a design concept from them for motor and 400. 02:02:49
This is Edgewater Townhomes crossing over into the yard. 02:02:55
This one is at 400, but they also provided a very similar thing at. 02:03:03
At 4:00, at 7:10, I think they, I might have missed putting it in here, but it's the very same thing, yeah, that they wanted to do 02:03:08
at 710 and 400. 02:03:12
So this was another interesting feature of the project. So this, this is kind of a feature that would be incorporated in the yard. 02:03:22
B, it's it's a walkway, it's like an interesting aesthetic Greenway that would go through the yard. B obviously would have would 02:03:30
have a lot of conversations with the property owners who are in the room for something like this. But this is an idea that they 02:03:37
that they came up with to provide greenery to provide. 02:03:45
Easier access, safer access throughout the RB and to the Edgewater Townhomes. 02:03:52
And of course they would have design elements that would make the rock interesting and fun to to experience. 02:03:59
They would have elements such as this. These aren't the only things that you could do there, but they're fun and they they provide 02:04:08
an interesting element, urban design element. 02:04:13
Can we put those right outside about time? 02:04:22
So. 02:04:24
I don't see why not. 02:04:26
Yeah, yeah. So it's just the concept of enhancing the the urban environment to be more welcoming and and safe. So here's the I 02:04:30
didn't forget to include it. So this is the the treatment that they proposed at 710 and 400. 02:04:37
It's another angle. 02:04:46
So they finished their project by asking why we get her in design. Urban design catalyzes social cohesion. It provides positive 02:04:48
interactions with the landscape and build social capital. It's critical to human health and it can increase our quality of life 02:04:56
and give meaning and depth to our our social spaces. And it can provide activities and things for us to see along our our trips. 02:05:03
There's a few other recommendations. Vineyard Transit Service expansion along the road. 02:05:11
There will be bus stops. 02:05:20
There's already a bus route now along the road and and stops along along that can increase. We can have a potential BLT system in 02:05:21
the future along the road. So there will be an increased ridership with all the new development that is going on. And so we should 02:05:28
begin to plan accordingly because transit will become an even more real realistic way of getting around in and in and out of 02:05:35
vineyard. 02:05:42
And then this one, This one was a great effect. This is more of a, you know, thinking pragmatically and thinking in public works 02:05:52
worth his mind. Snow removal of separated bike lanes Of the separated bike lanes, The language should facilitate snow removal. 02:05:59
There's a lot of different vehicles that can be used or retrofitted to allow for easier snow removal, and we should provide space 02:06:06
outside of those lanes to store any of that snow. 02:06:13
And then? 02:06:21
They showed us a few of the of the machines of vehicles that Salt Lake City is using. These are called Kabuto vehicles. I've never 02:06:22
heard of them. Here we go. 02:06:29
And then I think this is the last one on street parking. 02:06:37
The purpose of having on street parking is that it provides that physical barrier between cars and active transport. It can be 02:06:42
used to slow the speed of moving vehicles and it will provide parking for the additional residential and commercial development 02:06:49
and it can be used if we decide to. 02:06:56
Charge for the parking at A at a fair market price. It can be the source of revenue for the city and. 02:07:05
These are the amount of parking spaces that each of the projects were proposing along the road. So the median with the parking was 02:07:13
proposing 75 new spaces, and then the road diet design was proposing 162 new spaces because it provided bike lanes not just down 02:07:19
the middle of the road, but on both sides of the road. 02:07:25
And then they went through a few zoning code changes. Basically what they're saying is that we should amend our RMU code to 02:07:33
provide more open space and to reduce the parking requirements per per uses in within the RMU. 02:07:41
So here's a summary of it all, and I think I'm done. 02:07:51
They they did a really good project. They're really good to to work with. I think David Simpson was a really informed planner. 02:07:55
He's been both practitioner and now a professor and we hope that we can continue working with them in the future because they 02:08:00
provide really good insights and products so. 02:08:05
So my question I guess is just. 02:08:12
How come they're not presenting it to us? They're semester is over. 02:08:16
Done on the 20th of April. And the reason I ask is I know that in the past these kind of studies have been presented before so. 02:08:22
Yeah, they can know the Bike Advisory Commission and we were supposed to have them in the Planning Commission, the the, the week 02:08:31
after, but we have to cancel the Planning Commission. So they weren't able to come. Got it? OK, Yeah. Just because in the future, 02:08:37
I think it's it's fun having them here to present it. It's good. That's a good part of the experience for them too. So what if 02:08:43
anything is already in the works for the 400 N Mill Rd. intersection? 02:08:49
Because like, if if if someone lives in Lincoln Square and wanted to go to Panda Express with their five year old, they're going 02:08:57
to hop in a car even though it's less than 1/4 mile away. So like, what? What's already in the plan, if anything? 02:09:04
That seem so. OK so. 02:09:13
OK. So the 400 N intersection on that we have on our capital project West in terms of to for study and and excuse me design and 02:09:19
something funding in for potential or partial for a traffic traffic signal. So after the estimates crossings on there so we 02:09:28
recognize that that Aaron Jackson specifically when 400 N connects into Geneva. 02:09:37
Over here, very high volume type intersection. 02:09:47
So I can't tell you the data when that would that would happen since it's all the continues on budgets as well. 02:09:53
I think that would be a great communication piece to let people know on Facebook and stuff that this is already being talked about 02:09:59
because a lot of people are concerned. So we've talked about how to get engagement, let people know what's happening, but we could 02:10:05
be proactive there so they know this is. 02:10:10
The priority. 02:10:16
All right. 02:10:22
Well, thank you, Brian. I guess we'll move on to item 5.4. 02:10:25
Thank you. 02:10:33
Site plan minor amendments. So Morgan, you'll be presenting on this again. One more another work session item. 02:10:35
We have any requests for outdoor dining. The process right now requires going through the Planning Commission, getting the site 02:10:49
plan, landscape plan, you know the elevations of those things that. 02:10:55
And then they go before. 02:11:02
For like two or three others. So Mr. here is showing downtime. They just added on and they're really nice and So what we require. 02:11:10
So the process is basically to submit right now you go to ERC, we at staff level, we do a ton of just making sure like the make 02:11:18
making sure that the sidewalk system is connected that they're not taking out parking, that they're not adding interior square 02:11:25
footage. So like the like what we already doing with the DRC we feel like is is sufficient. 02:11:33
A lot of cities take like a minor site plan and they allow those to be approved on administrative level. And so our suggestion is 02:11:40
that if it's true minor they're adding seating, maybe some some fencing, they might do a roof extension, but they're not adding 02:11:48
interior square footage. It does help the process to to split it off of what a standard site plan amendment is, which requires a 02:11:55
high fee, requires coming through all this and if we did what's called a site plan minor application. 02:12:02
We would have some criteria it would still provide the director of the ability to kick it back up to Planning Commission if it 02:12:10
seemed more complex than what it is. But I think how we have a written is like under 2000 square feet can add the, you can't add 02:12:16
interior square footage. You need to maintain ADA all the building standards. So we and the architecture needs to blend in with 02:12:23
what's already in place. We feel like that that that would actually help with with several these people that are considered 02:12:29
sitting there can make it. 02:12:36
Just from a customer service standpoint really quick and it's something we could review most of that material just in house 02:12:43
through through a building from that, but that's that's how staff and suggestion we know that does take away you know so some of 02:12:49
these from your review. So it does kind of affect you but we want to know how if you're if you're okay with. 02:12:55
Delegating that authority to staff to do the minors. 02:13:02
11 immediate thought I had is I mean anything that. 02:13:07
Work, you know, more than once as an issue, then we could, you know, see if that's something that we needed to take back it. 02:13:44
And stop being an administrative action and run it through the whole process. But I don't see any major pitfalls. I just think the 02:13:52
awareness and accountability from just reporting out publicly would be helpful. 02:13:58
For outdoors being like this, for the set back distance, are we measuring it from the structure or is it going to be from whatever 02:14:05
the possible overhang is or fencing of the building? Yeah. So like in this type of situation, there's not the the only setbacks 02:14:13
that apply to the RMU right now that that's the, this whole district that we've been looking at is off of the road type. So 02:14:20
there's a local, a collector and a major arterial. And so I think it goes 25/20/15. 02:14:28
You need against to, but right now the army doesn't have. 02:15:10
Outside of like the street set back there's there's no like between setbacks other than what building code would afford like. 02:15:12
Looking at this picture here, my only concern would be there is I can imagine if you had two wheelchairs going at the same time, 02:15:17
it's going to be tough for them. So if we don't have just some sort of minimum, when you have groups of people, you're going to 02:15:22
have a situation where somebody is going into the road. 02:15:27
Like this. So just something I think we should keep in mind as we approve these that we can facilitate the travel of everybody. 02:15:33
Fire sidewalks and. 02:16:48
I assume that this one that you brought to us before that we talked about is one you would have brought to the Planning Commission 02:16:50
or do you think that's one he would have just done the staff level? 02:16:54
Because not much really changed but when we went to Planning Commission and we worked with them probably two or three meetings 02:17:01
with the DRC and so we we've added really well just from like a staff standpoint. But yeah this is one we we would we would have 02:17:06
felt comfortable doing through an administrative level. 02:17:12
So we look at everything like the lighting, are you taking lighting off the building, you know is there any anything from ADA 02:17:19
George went through this really carefully and made sure like that the 88 requirements, but there were some I remember on this one 02:17:24
some judgment calls too like how far forward do you bring the? 02:17:30
The fence versus like making a flush with the front. So I mean that's what we would be losing potentially is the input on that. 02:17:37
Yeah, we're honestly just so you know, like we won't be upset if you don't feel. We just felt like we've received a lot of 02:17:44
questions and there were concerns about having to do like a full process from the the applicant side. If you guys want, we can 02:17:48
keep it the same. 02:17:53
Applicant standpoint like I think that's that's important. I mean if people want to do business with the city, we want to be easy 02:18:00
to work with, very clear and efficient. I think that's that's very important. So, so kind of with this one in particular, I 02:18:05
remember going through this in the way I remember it is their original plan was to go all the way out to the street and that's how 02:18:09
it was presented to us. 02:18:14
So I think that maybe if there are some that are potentially blocking pedestrian access, maybe that's something that needs to come 02:18:20
to the Planning Commission. But if it's something that's just like they're adding on, it's not affecting anything Like absolutely. 02:18:27
Like, yeah, yeah, that would be good. 02:18:34
Yeah, 'cause I mean if it's allowing for. 02:18:44
88 Requirements for pedestrians on sidewalks like. 02:18:47
I'm all for outdoor seating. 02:18:51
Yeah. And what triggered them having to go through the process was that the fencing altering the the sidewalk and the extension 02:18:54
off the off the roof line. Well and there was a little unique compared to some of the other locations because they had to have 02:19:00
more strict fencing and signage because of alcohol services versus some other locations. The other restaurants there they all want 02:19:06
to do on the exact same thing as well. That's the other thing too is like what whatever precedent is that good or bad, I mean 02:19:11
we'll see that. 02:19:17
Yeah, you can't say no to me if you said yesterday. 02:19:24
Well, and it's doing well too. I mean if you go that Thursday, Friday, Saturday night and then about time is pretty slammed and 02:19:27
then all those restaurants are killing it right now. So I think where they can add capacity for more seating to help them, I think 02:19:32
that's what we want to, I think it just activates that area so. 02:19:37
It's way less loud than inside that place. 02:19:45
I just can I can I add that? 02:19:49
Unless it's done administration, I shouldn't say it that way. If it's done through Planning Commission, they have to provide a 02:19:54
full site plan amendment application, which can can get expensive because they need to provide the site plan document, they need 02:20:00
to provide elevations, they need to provide a landscaping document. If any of the landscaping is changing, yeah, that's that's 02:20:05
what makes it difficult. And it's I guess it scared some people away that that we're coming forward with cool proposals that like 02:20:11
this is too much and like. 02:20:17
I don't know that it's worth it at that point, you know. So is there a way to address that? Is there a way that they can still 02:20:23
have their proposal reviewed by the Planning Commission? 02:20:28
With less deliverables required. 02:20:33
Whatever, you guys, whatever. I guess if I go back what you're saying, Brian? 02:20:39
If they do it at a staff level, they still have to produce some deliverable to communicate what their intent is to record that 02:20:45
right, to have a paper trail of what they're proposing, what you're proving. So I don't think that whether we approve, whether we 02:20:51
review it and approve it or you guys at the staff level. 02:20:58
The deliverables should be the same. 02:21:05
I the deliverables shouldn't be any more stringent to bring it to us and we can make the deliverables. So for maybe it's instead 02:21:08
of just doing an administrative process, it's creating a minor site plan application. So there's like a category and then the 02:21:15
requirements aren't the full set of like photometrics, you know? 02:21:22
Yeah, it's civil engineers to to do it. 02:21:30
Yeah, because whatever they would present to you to be able to review and approve it, I would think would be sufficient for the 02:21:33
Commission to review and approve as well. And if they have to submit a a building permit work which coming off the the roof they 02:21:40
have to submit some details. But what have decent plans, well, I guess so before all they're doing is adding tables. 02:21:47
Like a like a survey. And then we asked them like like you know, customer service standpoint like was it, did you have the was an 02:22:26
arduous process that take forever for staff nice to you. Like there's a lot of those kind of things. I never saw the results of 02:22:33
it, but they they apparently went back and I think did some sort of a survey on. So it's like a full year. So there's probably 02:22:40
some really great data out there, but I've never seen that. Well, the reason I ask is like sometimes it feels like we're asking. 02:22:47
I'm making wait till after all the work sessions. Yeah, happy. 02:23:30
That, that's all I had. I mean if you guys have any more comments where we're not like 100% on the administrative aspect, but I 02:23:37
might kind of write it up both ways. But if anything we're going to look at adding the application minor site plan amendment and 02:23:42
then maybe have, So we're still able to scrutinize it, but more watered down things that like you would get just through like a 02:23:47
basic billing from an application. 02:23:53
Sounds good. 02:24:00
OK. Thanks. Any other, no other comments on that? OK. 02:24:04
All right then let's move into Commission members reports and ex parte discussion disclosure. Does any do any of our. 02:24:09
Commissioners have anything they wish to disclose on the bike commit committee. It's Bike Month right now. City's got a lot of 02:24:18
different things going on and it all will all kind of culminate with the Vineyard days. Encouraged to bike there if you can. 02:24:25
You'll probably get in and out a lot quicker than if you drive there, so it's a good incentive that way. But yeah, look for the 02:24:32
social media posts on the remaining last couple weeks and the activities that are going on. 02:24:38
We've been having meetings about the Central corridor plan, which is the wetlands essentially and we're just working on picking 02:24:47
out. 02:24:51
A consultant. 02:24:57
To design that and that's going to be really cool. 02:25:00
I have a couple things. One, we've talked with staff about the possibility whether. 02:25:05
The development services is now located at the Utah Valley Home Builders Association building. There is a large room there that 02:25:14
can accommodate more people. 02:25:19
And there's a desire from staff standpoint to try one of our Planning Commission meetings over there to see how it would work. 02:25:26
So that when we have occasionally we have an audience here, we have a hot topic and we do get people that come out. 02:25:33
And so there there's a, there's a desire to do kind of a test run. And so I think, I think that would be. 02:25:42
An important thing to do. 02:25:49
We probably need to figure out the like audio, visual stuff before we did that. I don't know if we have adequate microphones and 02:25:52
everything. 02:25:55
And the recording software and all that, but we can look into it alright. Whenever you guys feel ready then I think be OK to to 02:26:00
try that out. 02:26:04
OK. 02:26:11
The other thing I will disclose is that we are on a personal note we have our house is now on the market as of today. 02:26:12
And so we are, we are taking steps to to be moving out of the community. So I will probably no longer be able to serve on the the 02:26:24
Planning Commission. 02:26:30
Much more than probably another meeting or two, depending on schedule this summer, but. 02:26:37
So we'll need to. 02:26:43
Pick a new Planning Commission chair and I don't know what that how that necessarily works but yeah, we can throw it on the next 02:26:46
throw it on the next agenda. But just on a personal note, this being on the the Commission has been definitely the highlight for 02:26:52
me living in this community and. 02:26:58
So and and the hardest thing probably to to to leave so I've really enjoyed serving with all of you guys and it's it's I'm I'm 02:27:06
still really excited about the the future of of Vineyard and. 02:27:13
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll have to come back to our meetings, you know? 02:27:20
Work on the other side of the podium a little bit. 02:27:24
But but yeah so that's that's kind of me on a personal note one other little thing too that I wanted to share just I I needed to 02:27:28
actually probably bring some some Flyers to city offices but our there's a there's a cool event happening in Spanish Fork this 02:27:35
weekend So my my business were involved in a pro bono basis with the GAIL Halverson foundation. So GAIL Halverson the Candy bomber 02:27:41
that in World War 2 dropped candy into Germany and. 02:27:48
We work with a foundation for a long time that's it's been raising money to build a museum and a facility to honor GAIL and to 02:27:56
inspire the next generation of of people to to have a spirit of service and and there's a aviation education component. So anyway 02:28:03
they're having a big event on Saturday that's free to the public where they're going to have some cool airplanes. They're going to 02:28:10
do a candy drop and try to educate the community about it so. 02:28:17
And you know, you go, you might see me and. 02:28:26
Seeing my friends there, but it's a cool event that they're trying to get some community support for, so I thought I'd share that 02:28:29
as well. 02:28:33
Spanish Fork Airport. 02:28:37
No. 02:28:41
Anyway. 02:28:43
Those are all my disclosures today. Well, Jeff. 02:28:44
That's Thanks man. You're leaving? 02:28:49
I guarantee you are hard to replace. So you've done so much seriously from I did. I remember you coming in six years ago when I 02:28:52
when I had, when we worked for the old building when I first started and you introduced you up to me and said I just want to 02:28:58
volunteer. I want to you know put my my skills to to service for vendors and you've you've kept that up the whole time and really 02:29:04
appreciate everything you've done. It's it's been a fun journey and to see the city develop with you you've been just a major 02:29:09
component of that. 02:29:15
Thank you someone else. You have to wear the Design Nerd Hat. 02:29:22
Get the architecture license really quick. You got them off the requirement. 02:29:26
Thanks. Yeah. Any other staff reports or things that not sure? 02:29:37
So from the engineering just you may have seen that 800 N in your connector slash over Main Street has put up some traffic control 02:29:42
devices contractors out there doing some work. 02:29:49
Sorry. 02:30:33
That science can disappear really fast. 02:30:36
Now but. 02:30:39
Heads up on that. So we're going to be attending a pre construction meeting on Friday morning with a contractor to kind of 02:30:42
solidify that on the dates. Unfortunately that's a lot. You know the construction economy is good. Unfortunately it takes a little 02:30:50
bit more pushing to get certain things done. For example, the signal material has to get powder coated before it gets installed 02:30:58
and so forth. And so we're working diligently with those suppliers and so forth to move forward. 02:31:05
You got has been very good about keeping the materials that we need. 02:31:13
Set aside for us to get that going as well, the plan the and then we anticipate getting the front vineyard connector. 02:31:17
Project. 02:31:27
Moving forward probably mid late summer with the construction that goes out for construction bids and so forth. And then the 02:31:29
problem not overpass over the vineyard connectors, we're working on some internal, some internal designs, some designs, excuse me, 02:31:35
in order to come up with a Feng shui. 02:31:41
Perfect medium in terms of. 02:31:48
Size and usage of about also. 02:31:53
The city of today we went into a pre construction inspection for the tank or a tank project for the storm water to ensure storm 02:31:58
water our runoffs are being protected. So that being said you know the water tank qualities is moving forward. 02:32:07
But also that the city is making sure that we take the proper precautions and saying that saying the standard in the bar to ensure 02:32:17
that when we do projects, city projects that it's being done to the T in terms of following rules and regulations as well. The 02:32:24
last last thing I want to say is we have a new face here in the audience 1 audience. So we have Emily the guitar though who's a 02:32:31
new staff engineer she's she, this is her second week here with us at City Vineyard. She comes from BYU. She majors in civil 02:32:38
engineering so. 02:32:45
But we're not landscape architect. 02:32:53
OK, there we go. But also majors she comes, she has families. Her father her her and her uncle are both civil engineers. So you 02:32:56
even bigger bonus her her her interest really lies and lies in water resources and sustainability, environmental and environmental 02:33:04
sciences and engineering as well. So really brings to the city a lot of great strengths to you know, kind of offset my destroy all 02:33:12
the trees and pay everything concrete type mentality. 02:33:20
That's that's what I'm here for. And we're glad she's here, yeah. 02:33:28
OK. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? 02:33:36
OK, and we are adjourned. 02:33:39
Thank you. 02:33:42
I always think he's a short agenda. 02:33:45
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All right. Welcome, everybody. Today is May 18th, and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission. I will give an invocation. 00:00:02
Heavenly Father, we thankful that we could be here today to discuss things for our city. We're so thankful for this city, this 00:00:13
place that we live. We're thankful for the effort that everyone puts forward to make this a great place to live. Please bless 00:00:17
those that. 00:00:22
That are serving our community whether they be leaders or police force or just anybody in general that they'll be blessed. Help us 00:00:28
to know what would be best for our city. We lofty and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:34
All right. Moving to an open session. Do we have any comments from the public? 00:00:42
If not, then we'll move right into the Minutes for review and approval. 00:00:49
For March 16th 3.1. Is anybody taking a look at that or? 00:00:56
I wanted to make a motion. 00:01:02
Looked to be OK to me. OK, Do you wanna make a motion? 00:01:04
Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes of March 16th as presented. All right. Thank you. All right, thanks, Anthony. 00:01:08
All in favour. Aye, aye. All right. Moving to public hearing item 4.1. So, Bryce, if you could on this one. This is in regards to 00:01:17
the nitrogen Geneva partial of 27 acres or so that's off in Geneva Rd. City has interest in seeing something that's not. 00:01:26
We had some the the owner got a new e-mail address, so there was a lot of correspondence that didn't go back and forth. So we're 00:02:09
running in good effort work with them. So it's on now. Our request is that you officially open a public hearing allow people 00:02:15
military, but I'll allow them to speak if they want and don't close it Then just then before you move to the next item continue it 00:02:21
to. I think it's July 6th planning question. OK, cool. Jeff Knighton is here. So I'm going to let him take over from this point. 00:02:27
We just got to item 4.1. 00:02:34
We're about to open up the public, the public hearing for the Geneva nitrogen plant. 00:02:41
Yes, thank you, Bryce. Dealing with traffic and I make a motion to open a public hearing. I'll second that. 00:02:46
All in favor of the motion, aye? 00:02:54
We are now in a public hearing. 00:02:59
And I will also make a motion that we continue this public hearing to the July 6/20/22 Planning Commission meeting. 00:03:02
Do I have a second? 00:03:11
All in favor, aye. 00:03:13
Motion passes. 00:03:17
OK, so that's that takes care of 4.1 basically. Wait, we just continue that? 00:03:21
OK. So then item 5.1, work session, general plan, review of the heritage and cultural resources. So Brian? 00:03:28
We will be presenting on this. That's right, this is a work session, so no vote or action will be taken. 00:03:37
And if I could, just before Brian starts, yesterday we talked in in another meeting about how important it might be for there to 00:03:44
be some clarity about why did Vineyard get started as a community, how that came about, what was the incentive behind it. I don't 00:03:52
know if if you wanted me to take a few minutes and and read out of the Heritage book how that came about or if we should do that 00:03:59
in another time. 00:04:06
Either way, Brian, do you want to and what would be the right placement for that with your presentation? 00:04:17
Just wondering more because this is heritage item, can you can you give a few words on that? 00:04:23
Sure. 00:04:32
I think so. The structure of my presentation is to talk about a little bit about what a general plan is, why we're updating it, 00:04:37
why that matters, then I'm going to go into. 00:04:45
Some community engagement initiatives that we've done in the past. So we'll have a discussion about moving forward with some 00:04:55
community community engagement efforts to update this section of the plan. So I think I think it's, it's great if you want to give 00:05:00
us a little bit of background. 00:05:05
So that it's at least on the record again. Sure. How Vineyard came about, what was its purpose, how did, how was it formulated, 00:05:11
and so on. I'm getting my information out of this book that a lot of us have seen called Our Vineyard Heritage. It was written 00:05:19
published in about 2000, I think if I'm not mistaken, but it covered the 1st 100 years of Vineyards existence up until about the 00:05:28
latter part of the 1990s. But I thought I would just read a few of the articles here. I'm starting on page. 00:05:36
72 in the section called incorporation. 00:05:45
And I think it might be useful for us to because in our earlier discussion it was we thought. 00:05:50
You know what has caused Vineyard to have the culture that it has? What? How did it start? Every place has its story, every city 00:05:57
has its beginnings, and sometimes those beginnings carry over into even how we make decisions later. So I thought I would just 00:06:04
read a little bit of this so that you can get a feel for what caused this city to to to be. First of all, there was a feeling by 00:06:11
148 residents. 00:06:19
Who were here, that they were being encroached upon by neighboring cities? Arm and Provo, primarily and a little bit Linden, but 00:06:26
primarily Orman, provoke, and they were concerned that they would be taken over by those cities that were already incorporated and 00:06:32
already functioning. 00:06:39
The citizens got together in 1972, So 50 years ago, 1972, they got together and made a proposal to Geneva steel. At the time it 00:06:47
was. 00:06:52
United States Steel to incorporate Vineyard. 00:06:57
And the steel company felt that that was not necessary at the time. 00:07:02
But in 1980? 00:07:07
There was a law passed in Utah State legislature, a tax law, that basically required corporations or companies in unincorporated 00:07:09
areas to operate within an existing city limit. 00:07:17
When they were going to be re managed that is bought by someone else or as they change management and that's exactly what was 00:07:26
occurring with the United States Steel in 1980 was they were being bought by Geneva Steel. 00:07:33
So the tax law required the company to be within an incorporated city limit, and they weren't. They were within the county limits. 00:07:41
And so it got vineyards attention again and and the residents went back to to Geneva Steel and made a petition to incorporate and 00:07:51
it was approved that there was a process they had to go through. They had to get signatures. Out of the 148 residents, 140 of them 00:07:59
said yes. There were a few that dissented and they took that to then the county Commission over a period of a couple of years and 00:08:08
it was debated back and forth. There were some opposition from Orem. The book says that. 00:08:16
ARM officials questioned whether it was appropriate to place a town between Orem and the lake. 00:08:25
How could such a city support its infrastructure? Would ARM have a future say in environmental issues? And so on? 00:08:32
But the City of Vineyard wanted to have its own independence. So it began with an independence feeling. They didn't want to be 00:08:41
managed by larger cities, so with 148 citizens, they were incorporated. It was approved in May of 1989. 00:08:49
And there's some really cool quotes in this book from the first mayor, mayor, ruling gammon. 00:08:58
But it was basically saying they wanted to keep the culture of their community. They wanted to, they wanted people to understand 00:09:05
this as an agricultural community and they wanted people to be able to have land if they wanted to have land. And they could only 00:09:13
protect that if they incorporated and then manage that process. As the years came along, there was some concern for over 00:09:21
development. Well, maybe they were being prophetic in in terms of some of the things that people were seeing. 00:09:29
But um. 00:09:37
I I just think it's important for us to remember that there was a a very small core group of people who saw the vision to keep the 00:09:39
city independent, keep the town independent from the larger neighboring cities. Especially because Orem wanted to use the western 00:09:46
part of Orem to kind of dump a lot of the things that they didn't want to have up on the bench. And the city could see that coming 00:09:54
and said no. 00:10:01
We're going to keep our land pristine, clean, pure and keep it for the desires of the residents. So there's a feeling of 00:10:09
independence that they wanted to be and and and retain their independence. They wanted to retain a culture that spoke about the 00:10:17
people who first developed this area and protected it and created it and then developed it. 00:10:24
And they wanted to develop a source of revenue. Geneva Steel, at the time, was the only source of revenue. And it's interesting 00:10:33
that when Geneva, excuse me, when Vineyard put his first city budget together in 1990, they wanted a budget of $80,000, there was 00:10:40
no money because the county had already taken it away for that tax year. And so they went to Geneva Steel and asked for a loan of 00:10:48
$50,000 to operate the city. 00:10:56
The Geneva Steel gave them $15,000. 00:11:03
And they ran the city for the first year until they started generating their own tax and pretty soon they got $140,000 from the 00:11:08
tax revenue and then it built. And they, the city even reduced property taxes by 30%, which wouldn't that be a creative idea, 00:11:15
reduce the the property taxes by 30% because they had so much money, they just didn't know what to do with it. So anyway, I'll 00:11:22
leave it there, but I just thought it would be good to just remember. 00:11:30
From whence we come, why Vineyard existed in the 1st place, the hard fight that was fought by the the first residents here and. 00:11:37
I think it carries on into who we are today, a fairly independent community, the one that has a bright future and trying to 00:11:50
protect its growth and its future. So anyway, thank you for allowing me that. Yeah. Thank you, Tim. 00:11:56
You're welcome. Thanks for that. That was really awesome. 00:12:03
So this presentation is a continuation of the discussion that we had in the April 20th 22 Planning Commission meeting where we're 00:12:07
talking about updating the heritage element or the heritage chapter of the General Plan. 00:12:14
I had provided red lines and found a kind of a draft of the revisions that were made-up to this point and they were presented to 00:12:22
the Commission and basically the conversation was continued. We wanted to allow more time to get feedback on the red lines, but 00:12:30
before we before we get to that conversation, we decided that it might be good to have a conversation with us updating the general 00:12:38
plan. 00:12:45
Let's touch on what a General Plan is, what it isn't, and this provides some clarifying information because it's it's always good 00:12:53
with the general plan being a document that we refer to all the time, constantly. We want to make sure that we understand its 00:13:00
legal authorities and and how it can serve to to benefit our planning process. 00:13:08
Oops, there we go. 00:13:17
OK, so I got some a few references from the state code. 00:13:21
Each municipality shall prepare and adopt A comprehensive long range General plan for President and future names of the 00:13:25
municipality, growth and development of all or any part of the land within the municipality. 00:13:32
This plan needs to articulate the existing and desired conditions of the community as well as future land use and transportation 00:13:39
corridors. 00:13:43
The General Plan may provide for some of the following things for health, general welfare, safety, moderate income, housing, 00:13:50
economic development, future land use, historic preservation, and and many more. 00:13:57
This part of the code helps to clarify, I guess. I'll just see that it says the general plan is an advisory guide for land use 00:14:06
decision. Unless otherwise stated by local ordinance, General plan is only an advisory is only advisory in nature. 00:14:15
In many cases, the municipalities did not need to follow the General Plan. 00:14:24
So the general plan is it's a living breathing document. It's a document that can change, but it's a document that establishes 00:14:30
kind of like a ground basis for where we want to move as a community. It provides the flexibility, it gives cities the flexibility 00:14:37
of of making decisions that are sometimes outside of our general plan. But it is kind of that guidepost and so recent decisions, 00:14:44
some some decisions have been recently in the city that. 00:14:51
I guess some would argue that we're not in line with the general plan. 00:14:59
And others would argue that it wasn't in line with the Gentle Plan. But we wanted this to establish that the drone plan is is a 00:15:04
guiding document. Sometimes we can go we are legally authorized to go outside of the general plan if we if we think that's in the 00:15:10
best interest of the community. 00:15:15
Anyways, without a general plan like me does not have a long range vision, goals or strategies to guide and our growth and 00:15:23
development. So Brian, if you could just go back to that last slide and in a positive way to say that last statement is with a 00:15:31
general plan, a community has a long range vision enrolled because I think that's what it does for us. It gives us that vision, 00:15:38
the goals and the strategies. 00:15:45
Not not laws, but vision, goals and strategies, yeah. And I think it's fair to say that most of the time we follow the job plan. 00:15:52
We do our best to stick to the general plan as much as we can. That's the purpose of doing these updates. And I think that's why 00:15:59
the state encourages regular updating and referencing of the general plan. 00:16:05
Um, very important this up to me this afternoon. The general plan serves as a necessary and effective budgeting document. We 00:16:17
actually can't have a lot of our infrastructure. We can't build or construct our infrastructure unless it's it's shown on the 00:16:23
general plan like our open spaces, our parks, our utilities like all that stuff has to be shown and reflecting the general plan 00:16:29
for you to move forward with that. 00:16:36
Big impacts could be coming. 00:17:13
Kind of a companion document to the general plan. And so you'll see that General plan is a big overarching one and you have a lot 00:17:48
of like master plans and things that are companion dog documents to that. But yeah, you're absolutely right. 00:17:53
Right. So, yeah, we wanted to provide this level of information that perhaps in the future after we've made our amendments and 00:18:00
established our our general plan that sometimes it might go at least in interpretation, it might go against the general plan. And 00:18:07
and we shouldn't always expect the general plan to be followed to the team. We do our best to follow it, follow it, but it does 00:18:14
have that flexibility. 00:18:22
Is all I want to say. 00:18:29
OK. It's important to update the general plan. So here we are. 00:18:34
Turned off accidentally. Sorry. 00:18:39
And here's some of the reasons why it's important to keep your general Plan updated. It helps us to understand significant changes 00:18:41
in the community as time goes by. It helps us to identify missing elements in the in our General Plan. 00:18:47
This year the state is changing a few, a few adding a few requirements of things that need to be updated in the general plan. 00:18:55
We need to update our modern income housing element in our general plan. Now we also need to provide an A section of the general 00:19:04
plan that talks about our event includes us a station area plan for permanent transit infrastructure. So cities that have like a 00:19:12
front runner station now they need to provide a station area plan for the adjacent. 00:19:20
Area around that station and how that's going to function best for people in the community. It helps us to identify conflicts in 00:19:28
the plan and in our municipal ordinances or if there's any discrepancies. It helps to establish accuracy with the zoning map and 00:19:36
of course it helps us to move forward in a in a positive direction as as our community grows. 00:19:44
Is there a requirement to do it? What says regularly, so no defined time. You don't have to do it every five years or something. 00:19:53
Yeah, I we switched that in the code. I was looking at state code today. I could not find a set time other than understanding that 00:19:59
the encouragement is to update it regularly. 00:20:05
Yeah. 00:20:12
But when it comes to, there are there is a section when it comes to moderate income housing elements of the General Plan State 00:20:14
Code Section 1098408 requires us to review and report on this topic annually. 00:20:21
Moderate income housing and cities being able to provide affordable housing for people isn't is top on the list for for a lot of 00:20:30
the planning that's going on in the state. And so this year we'll have to provide that report along with a few updates in our 00:20:36
goals and strategies of our general plan by October. So we're we're working on that as as we as we speak. So we'll be touching on 00:20:43
that pretty soon with you guys. 00:20:49
OK. And moving to the heritage portion of this presentation. 00:20:58
Let's chat if if there are any comments on the red lines that were presented last time. If there's anything you guys feel that 00:21:03
needs to be added or taken away or changed, there's an opportunity for you guys to to let us know what you think if you've had the 00:21:08
chance. 00:21:13
So I'll just open up to you guys. Oh, they've had a chance. You've had the chance. 00:21:21
So this discussion will keep going. So if if there are no comments today, we're happy to pick this up in the coming weeks or every 00:21:28
few weeks or every, every Planning Commission. We want to touch on updates to the general plan. So expect this, this competition 00:21:34
to be reoccurring. So, so just a general comment from the Heritage Commission, we feel that there have been some things left out 00:21:41
in the attempt to consolidate and. 00:21:48
You know, minimize wording and and those types of things, but we're not prepared yet to say what those are, just got comments back 00:21:56
from people how about this or how about that? And it was left out. So I'm sensing that there may be more effort to put some things 00:22:04
back in with the with the overall goal of keeping it minimal. So that's about the only thing so far we can report. Yeah, Tim, 00:22:11
would it be helpful to do a similar work session with the Heritage Commission? 00:22:18
Yeah, it could be, surely. 00:22:26
Yeah, if you want to let us know a time we're happy to attend that, OK. Would that be on any on any day, I mean of the week kind 00:22:29
of thing or? 00:22:35
Yeah. Happy. 00:22:43
The other thing, I was going to bring up it and I don't know want to play sick anymore, burden on staff for staff reports and 00:22:46
things like that. But I think anytime there's a project that's coming up or something that we're taking action on if there are. 00:22:52
Applicable parts of the general plan that we should be reviewing as we go along. So like view 2.1 about land use or this about 00:22:59
heritage. I think that would help us keep this top of mind rather than a little more like something that's collecting dust and 00:23:05
then we look at it once a year or whatever it might be that would that would keep a top of mind for every meeting. So you're 00:23:11
saying like heads up before time or even just like so you know item 4.1 today like applicable general plan section. Oh OK, like 00:23:17
like reference. 00:23:22
Get some references on the gender or a staff report or you know it with recommendations and they wouldn't necessarily have to be 00:23:28
with every little thing. But for major projects, I think it's extremely important that we are referencing the general plan for 00:23:34
sure. For sure we can do that. In fact because the general plan is on APDF, we could, we could attach the specific PDF pages of 00:23:40
the general plan to the agenda that way, a quick reference I think that's particularly. 00:23:46
Applicable to the rezone or things like that where we're we're we're stepping outside of the more administrative kind of decisions 00:23:54
you know and where where we need to be. 00:23:59
Conscious of how 5th and general we've been doing the for like rezones and new tax, we've been doing the general plan table so 00:24:04
that that that's in there. If if you want something more at like the front end for a political, what we do is we run through the 00:24:09
general plan all the goals and objectives and we grab the ones that we find are applicable either in a good way or a bad way and 00:24:14
then we try to do like a short analysis on it. 00:24:19
I saw the microphone creeping closer to you. 00:24:25
I agree. 00:24:34
Now. 00:24:36
That would make a good point specifically at least from staff reports that come from us, we'll we'll make sure that they highlight 00:24:40
their goals, the goal, the goals that it's achieving in terms of what like what this particular project is achieving in terms of 00:24:47
from the general plan and specifically the types of goals that the general plans outlining. So this way when you see the Wind 00:24:53
Planning Commission sees the staff report. 00:24:59
They know that we've done I do buildings to ensure that we're abiding to our dining lines being the general plan. 00:25:05
Have you received land use manuals? 00:25:15
Have you ordered the land use manuals for them? 00:25:21
I'm embarrassing him. 00:25:25
Publicly over it, because you all should be receiving land use manuals. They're just books that talk about all the different, you 00:25:27
know, Council Planning Commission. And I found it really helpful because it helps you understand what Planning Commission can do. 00:25:34
So she gave me the reference, She gave me the contact. Amber Radison gave me the contact to the Ombudsman. So I'll be reaching 00:25:40
out. 00:25:47
She still loves me. 00:25:56
One of you would prefer an Audible version of it that we can look see if they have one. I'm not like some audiobook. I think that 00:25:57
would put me something like something I can search more easily. I think that's the benefit of like PDF writing. I don't believe 00:26:06
that they have an ebook version of it, like a locally made book by somebody in Utah. Yeah. 00:26:14
We're looking around and very surprising physical copies because it is a really good book. I honestly, I referenced that book. 00:26:22
To make this presentation. It's really good stuff. I'm in front of this stuff. 00:26:27
So does anybody have any comments on the red lines specifically? 00:26:34
Other other comments, I just wanted to make sure that from the Heritage Commission that they were OK. That sounds like there may 00:26:40