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Transcript
| All right. Welcome, everybody. Today is May 18th, and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission. I will give an invocation. | 00:00:02 | |
| Heavenly Father, we thankful that we could be here today to discuss things for our city. We're so thankful for this city, this | 00:00:13 | |
| place that we live. We're thankful for the effort that everyone puts forward to make this a great place to live. Please bless | 00:00:17 | |
| those that. | 00:00:22 | |
| That are serving our community whether they be leaders or police force or just anybody in general that they'll be blessed. Help us | 00:00:28 | |
| to know what would be best for our city. We lofty and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. | 00:00:34 | |
| All right. Moving to an open session. Do we have any comments from the public? | 00:00:42 | |
| If not, then we'll move right into the Minutes for review and approval. | 00:00:49 | |
| For March 16th 3.1. Is anybody taking a look at that or? | 00:00:56 | |
| I wanted to make a motion. | 00:01:02 | |
| Looked to be OK to me. OK, Do you wanna make a motion? | 00:01:04 | |
| Sure. I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes of March 16th as presented. All right. Thank you. All right, thanks, Anthony. | 00:01:08 | |
| All in favour. Aye, aye. All right. Moving to public hearing item 4.1. So, Bryce, if you could on this one. This is in regards to | 00:01:17 | |
| the nitrogen Geneva partial of 27 acres or so that's off in Geneva Rd. City has interest in seeing something that's not. | 00:01:26 | |
| We had some the the owner got a new e-mail address, so there was a lot of correspondence that didn't go back and forth. So we're | 00:02:09 | |
| running in good effort work with them. So it's on now. Our request is that you officially open a public hearing allow people | 00:02:15 | |
| military, but I'll allow them to speak if they want and don't close it Then just then before you move to the next item continue it | 00:02:21 | |
| to. I think it's July 6th planning question. OK, cool. Jeff Knighton is here. So I'm going to let him take over from this point. | 00:02:27 | |
| We just got to item 4.1. | 00:02:34 | |
| We're about to open up the public, the public hearing for the Geneva nitrogen plant. | 00:02:41 | |
| Yes, thank you, Bryce. Dealing with traffic and I make a motion to open a public hearing. I'll second that. | 00:02:46 | |
| All in favor of the motion, aye? | 00:02:54 | |
| We are now in a public hearing. | 00:02:59 | |
| And I will also make a motion that we continue this public hearing to the July 6/20/22 Planning Commission meeting. | 00:03:02 | |
| Do I have a second? | 00:03:11 | |
| All in favor, aye. | 00:03:13 | |
| Motion passes. | 00:03:17 | |
| OK, so that's that takes care of 4.1 basically. Wait, we just continue that? | 00:03:21 | |
| OK. So then item 5.1, work session, general plan, review of the heritage and cultural resources. So Brian? | 00:03:28 | |
| We will be presenting on this. That's right, this is a work session, so no vote or action will be taken. | 00:03:37 | |
| And if I could, just before Brian starts, yesterday we talked in in another meeting about how important it might be for there to | 00:03:44 | |
| be some clarity about why did Vineyard get started as a community, how that came about, what was the incentive behind it. I don't | 00:03:52 | |
| know if if you wanted me to take a few minutes and and read out of the Heritage book how that came about or if we should do that | 00:03:59 | |
| in another time. | 00:04:06 | |
| Either way, Brian, do you want to and what would be the right placement for that with your presentation? | 00:04:17 | |
| Just wondering more because this is heritage item, can you can you give a few words on that? | 00:04:23 | |
| Sure. | 00:04:32 | |
| I think so. The structure of my presentation is to talk about a little bit about what a general plan is, why we're updating it, | 00:04:37 | |
| why that matters, then I'm going to go into. | 00:04:45 | |
| Some community engagement initiatives that we've done in the past. So we'll have a discussion about moving forward with some | 00:04:55 | |
| community community engagement efforts to update this section of the plan. So I think I think it's, it's great if you want to give | 00:05:00 | |
| us a little bit of background. | 00:05:05 | |
| So that it's at least on the record again. Sure. How Vineyard came about, what was its purpose, how did, how was it formulated, | 00:05:11 | |
| and so on. I'm getting my information out of this book that a lot of us have seen called Our Vineyard Heritage. It was written | 00:05:19 | |
| published in about 2000, I think if I'm not mistaken, but it covered the 1st 100 years of Vineyards existence up until about the | 00:05:28 | |
| latter part of the 1990s. But I thought I would just read a few of the articles here. I'm starting on page. | 00:05:36 | |
| 72 in the section called incorporation. | 00:05:45 | |
| And I think it might be useful for us to because in our earlier discussion it was we thought. | 00:05:50 | |
| You know what has caused Vineyard to have the culture that it has? What? How did it start? Every place has its story, every city | 00:05:57 | |
| has its beginnings, and sometimes those beginnings carry over into even how we make decisions later. So I thought I would just | 00:06:04 | |
| read a little bit of this so that you can get a feel for what caused this city to to to be. First of all, there was a feeling by | 00:06:11 | |
| 148 residents. | 00:06:19 | |
| Who were here, that they were being encroached upon by neighboring cities? Arm and Provo, primarily and a little bit Linden, but | 00:06:26 | |
| primarily Orman, provoke, and they were concerned that they would be taken over by those cities that were already incorporated and | 00:06:32 | |
| already functioning. | 00:06:39 | |
| The citizens got together in 1972, So 50 years ago, 1972, they got together and made a proposal to Geneva steel. At the time it | 00:06:47 | |
| was. | 00:06:52 | |
| United States Steel to incorporate Vineyard. | 00:06:57 | |
| And the steel company felt that that was not necessary at the time. | 00:07:02 | |
| But in 1980? | 00:07:07 | |
| There was a law passed in Utah State legislature, a tax law, that basically required corporations or companies in unincorporated | 00:07:09 | |
| areas to operate within an existing city limit. | 00:07:17 | |
| When they were going to be re managed that is bought by someone else or as they change management and that's exactly what was | 00:07:26 | |
| occurring with the United States Steel in 1980 was they were being bought by Geneva Steel. | 00:07:33 | |
| So the tax law required the company to be within an incorporated city limit, and they weren't. They were within the county limits. | 00:07:41 | |
| And so it got vineyards attention again and and the residents went back to to Geneva Steel and made a petition to incorporate and | 00:07:51 | |
| it was approved that there was a process they had to go through. They had to get signatures. Out of the 148 residents, 140 of them | 00:07:59 | |
| said yes. There were a few that dissented and they took that to then the county Commission over a period of a couple of years and | 00:08:08 | |
| it was debated back and forth. There were some opposition from Orem. The book says that. | 00:08:16 | |
| ARM officials questioned whether it was appropriate to place a town between Orem and the lake. | 00:08:25 | |
| How could such a city support its infrastructure? Would ARM have a future say in environmental issues? And so on? | 00:08:32 | |
| But the City of Vineyard wanted to have its own independence. So it began with an independence feeling. They didn't want to be | 00:08:41 | |
| managed by larger cities, so with 148 citizens, they were incorporated. It was approved in May of 1989. | 00:08:49 | |
| And there's some really cool quotes in this book from the first mayor, mayor, ruling gammon. | 00:08:58 | |
| But it was basically saying they wanted to keep the culture of their community. They wanted to, they wanted people to understand | 00:09:05 | |
| this as an agricultural community and they wanted people to be able to have land if they wanted to have land. And they could only | 00:09:13 | |
| protect that if they incorporated and then manage that process. As the years came along, there was some concern for over | 00:09:21 | |
| development. Well, maybe they were being prophetic in in terms of some of the things that people were seeing. | 00:09:29 | |
| But um. | 00:09:37 | |
| I I just think it's important for us to remember that there was a a very small core group of people who saw the vision to keep the | 00:09:39 | |
| city independent, keep the town independent from the larger neighboring cities. Especially because Orem wanted to use the western | 00:09:46 | |
| part of Orem to kind of dump a lot of the things that they didn't want to have up on the bench. And the city could see that coming | 00:09:54 | |
| and said no. | 00:10:01 | |
| We're going to keep our land pristine, clean, pure and keep it for the desires of the residents. So there's a feeling of | 00:10:09 | |
| independence that they wanted to be and and and retain their independence. They wanted to retain a culture that spoke about the | 00:10:17 | |
| people who first developed this area and protected it and created it and then developed it. | 00:10:24 | |
| And they wanted to develop a source of revenue. Geneva Steel, at the time, was the only source of revenue. And it's interesting | 00:10:33 | |
| that when Geneva, excuse me, when Vineyard put his first city budget together in 1990, they wanted a budget of $80,000, there was | 00:10:40 | |
| no money because the county had already taken it away for that tax year. And so they went to Geneva Steel and asked for a loan of | 00:10:48 | |
| $50,000 to operate the city. | 00:10:56 | |
| The Geneva Steel gave them $15,000. | 00:11:03 | |
| And they ran the city for the first year until they started generating their own tax and pretty soon they got $140,000 from the | 00:11:08 | |
| tax revenue and then it built. And they, the city even reduced property taxes by 30%, which wouldn't that be a creative idea, | 00:11:15 | |
| reduce the the property taxes by 30% because they had so much money, they just didn't know what to do with it. So anyway, I'll | 00:11:22 | |
| leave it there, but I just thought it would be good to just remember. | 00:11:30 | |
| From whence we come, why Vineyard existed in the 1st place, the hard fight that was fought by the the first residents here and. | 00:11:37 | |
| I think it carries on into who we are today, a fairly independent community, the one that has a bright future and trying to | 00:11:50 | |
| protect its growth and its future. So anyway, thank you for allowing me that. Yeah. Thank you, Tim. | 00:11:56 | |
| You're welcome. Thanks for that. That was really awesome. | 00:12:03 | |
| So this presentation is a continuation of the discussion that we had in the April 20th 22 Planning Commission meeting where we're | 00:12:07 | |
| talking about updating the heritage element or the heritage chapter of the General Plan. | 00:12:14 | |
| I had provided red lines and found a kind of a draft of the revisions that were made-up to this point and they were presented to | 00:12:22 | |
| the Commission and basically the conversation was continued. We wanted to allow more time to get feedback on the red lines, but | 00:12:30 | |
| before we before we get to that conversation, we decided that it might be good to have a conversation with us updating the general | 00:12:38 | |
| plan. | 00:12:45 | |
| Let's touch on what a General Plan is, what it isn't, and this provides some clarifying information because it's it's always good | 00:12:53 | |
| with the general plan being a document that we refer to all the time, constantly. We want to make sure that we understand its | 00:13:00 | |
| legal authorities and and how it can serve to to benefit our planning process. | 00:13:08 | |
| Oops, there we go. | 00:13:17 | |
| OK, so I got some a few references from the state code. | 00:13:21 | |
| Each municipality shall prepare and adopt A comprehensive long range General plan for President and future names of the | 00:13:25 | |
| municipality, growth and development of all or any part of the land within the municipality. | 00:13:32 | |
| This plan needs to articulate the existing and desired conditions of the community as well as future land use and transportation | 00:13:39 | |
| corridors. | 00:13:43 | |
| The General Plan may provide for some of the following things for health, general welfare, safety, moderate income, housing, | 00:13:50 | |
| economic development, future land use, historic preservation, and and many more. | 00:13:57 | |
| This part of the code helps to clarify, I guess. I'll just see that it says the general plan is an advisory guide for land use | 00:14:06 | |
| decision. Unless otherwise stated by local ordinance, General plan is only an advisory is only advisory in nature. | 00:14:15 | |
| In many cases, the municipalities did not need to follow the General Plan. | 00:14:24 | |
| So the general plan is it's a living breathing document. It's a document that can change, but it's a document that establishes | 00:14:30 | |
| kind of like a ground basis for where we want to move as a community. It provides the flexibility, it gives cities the flexibility | 00:14:37 | |
| of of making decisions that are sometimes outside of our general plan. But it is kind of that guidepost and so recent decisions, | 00:14:44 | |
| some some decisions have been recently in the city that. | 00:14:51 | |
| I guess some would argue that we're not in line with the general plan. | 00:14:59 | |
| And others would argue that it wasn't in line with the Gentle Plan. But we wanted this to establish that the drone plan is is a | 00:15:04 | |
| guiding document. Sometimes we can go we are legally authorized to go outside of the general plan if we if we think that's in the | 00:15:10 | |
| best interest of the community. | 00:15:15 | |
| Anyways, without a general plan like me does not have a long range vision, goals or strategies to guide and our growth and | 00:15:23 | |
| development. So Brian, if you could just go back to that last slide and in a positive way to say that last statement is with a | 00:15:31 | |
| general plan, a community has a long range vision enrolled because I think that's what it does for us. It gives us that vision, | 00:15:38 | |
| the goals and the strategies. | 00:15:45 | |
| Not not laws, but vision, goals and strategies, yeah. And I think it's fair to say that most of the time we follow the job plan. | 00:15:52 | |
| We do our best to stick to the general plan as much as we can. That's the purpose of doing these updates. And I think that's why | 00:15:59 | |
| the state encourages regular updating and referencing of the general plan. | 00:16:05 | |
| Um, very important this up to me this afternoon. The general plan serves as a necessary and effective budgeting document. We | 00:16:17 | |
| actually can't have a lot of our infrastructure. We can't build or construct our infrastructure unless it's it's shown on the | 00:16:23 | |
| general plan like our open spaces, our parks, our utilities like all that stuff has to be shown and reflecting the general plan | 00:16:29 | |
| for you to move forward with that. | 00:16:36 | |
| Big impacts could be coming. | 00:17:13 | |
| Kind of a companion document to the general plan. And so you'll see that General plan is a big overarching one and you have a lot | 00:17:48 | |
| of like master plans and things that are companion dog documents to that. But yeah, you're absolutely right. | 00:17:53 | |
| Right. So, yeah, we wanted to provide this level of information that perhaps in the future after we've made our amendments and | 00:18:00 | |
| established our our general plan that sometimes it might go at least in interpretation, it might go against the general plan. And | 00:18:07 | |
| and we shouldn't always expect the general plan to be followed to the team. We do our best to follow it, follow it, but it does | 00:18:14 | |
| have that flexibility. | 00:18:22 | |
| Is all I want to say. | 00:18:29 | |
| OK. It's important to update the general plan. So here we are. | 00:18:34 | |
| Turned off accidentally. Sorry. | 00:18:39 | |
| And here's some of the reasons why it's important to keep your general Plan updated. It helps us to understand significant changes | 00:18:41 | |
| in the community as time goes by. It helps us to identify missing elements in the in our General Plan. | 00:18:47 | |
| This year the state is changing a few, a few adding a few requirements of things that need to be updated in the general plan. | 00:18:55 | |
| We need to update our modern income housing element in our general plan. Now we also need to provide an A section of the general | 00:19:04 | |
| plan that talks about our event includes us a station area plan for permanent transit infrastructure. So cities that have like a | 00:19:12 | |
| front runner station now they need to provide a station area plan for the adjacent. | 00:19:20 | |
| Area around that station and how that's going to function best for people in the community. It helps us to identify conflicts in | 00:19:28 | |
| the plan and in our municipal ordinances or if there's any discrepancies. It helps to establish accuracy with the zoning map and | 00:19:36 | |
| of course it helps us to move forward in a in a positive direction as as our community grows. | 00:19:44 | |
| Is there a requirement to do it? What says regularly, so no defined time. You don't have to do it every five years or something. | 00:19:53 | |
| Yeah, I we switched that in the code. I was looking at state code today. I could not find a set time other than understanding that | 00:19:59 | |
| the encouragement is to update it regularly. | 00:20:05 | |
| Yeah. | 00:20:12 | |
| But when it comes to, there are there is a section when it comes to moderate income housing elements of the General Plan State | 00:20:14 | |
| Code Section 1098408 requires us to review and report on this topic annually. | 00:20:21 | |
| Moderate income housing and cities being able to provide affordable housing for people isn't is top on the list for for a lot of | 00:20:30 | |
| the planning that's going on in the state. And so this year we'll have to provide that report along with a few updates in our | 00:20:36 | |
| goals and strategies of our general plan by October. So we're we're working on that as as we as we speak. So we'll be touching on | 00:20:43 | |
| that pretty soon with you guys. | 00:20:49 | |
| OK. And moving to the heritage portion of this presentation. | 00:20:58 | |
| Let's chat if if there are any comments on the red lines that were presented last time. If there's anything you guys feel that | 00:21:03 | |
| needs to be added or taken away or changed, there's an opportunity for you guys to to let us know what you think if you've had the | 00:21:08 | |
| chance. | 00:21:13 | |
| So I'll just open up to you guys. Oh, they've had a chance. You've had the chance. | 00:21:21 | |
| So this discussion will keep going. So if if there are no comments today, we're happy to pick this up in the coming weeks or every | 00:21:28 | |
| few weeks or every, every Planning Commission. We want to touch on updates to the general plan. So expect this, this competition | 00:21:34 | |
| to be reoccurring. So, so just a general comment from the Heritage Commission, we feel that there have been some things left out | 00:21:41 | |
| in the attempt to consolidate and. | 00:21:48 | |
| You know, minimize wording and and those types of things, but we're not prepared yet to say what those are, just got comments back | 00:21:56 | |
| from people how about this or how about that? And it was left out. So I'm sensing that there may be more effort to put some things | 00:22:04 | |
| back in with the with the overall goal of keeping it minimal. So that's about the only thing so far we can report. Yeah, Tim, | 00:22:11 | |
| would it be helpful to do a similar work session with the Heritage Commission? | 00:22:18 | |
| Yeah, it could be, surely. | 00:22:26 | |
| Yeah, if you want to let us know a time we're happy to attend that, OK. Would that be on any on any day, I mean of the week kind | 00:22:29 | |
| of thing or? | 00:22:35 | |
| Yeah. Happy. | 00:22:43 | |
| The other thing, I was going to bring up it and I don't know want to play sick anymore, burden on staff for staff reports and | 00:22:46 | |
| things like that. But I think anytime there's a project that's coming up or something that we're taking action on if there are. | 00:22:52 | |
| Applicable parts of the general plan that we should be reviewing as we go along. So like view 2.1 about land use or this about | 00:22:59 | |
| heritage. I think that would help us keep this top of mind rather than a little more like something that's collecting dust and | 00:23:05 | |
| then we look at it once a year or whatever it might be that would that would keep a top of mind for every meeting. So you're | 00:23:11 | |
| saying like heads up before time or even just like so you know item 4.1 today like applicable general plan section. Oh OK, like | 00:23:17 | |
| like reference. | 00:23:22 | |
| Get some references on the gender or a staff report or you know it with recommendations and they wouldn't necessarily have to be | 00:23:28 | |
| with every little thing. But for major projects, I think it's extremely important that we are referencing the general plan for | 00:23:34 | |
| sure. For sure we can do that. In fact because the general plan is on APDF, we could, we could attach the specific PDF pages of | 00:23:40 | |
| the general plan to the agenda that way, a quick reference I think that's particularly. | 00:23:46 | |
| Applicable to the rezone or things like that where we're we're we're stepping outside of the more administrative kind of decisions | 00:23:54 | |
| you know and where where we need to be. | 00:23:59 | |
| Conscious of how 5th and general we've been doing the for like rezones and new tax, we've been doing the general plan table so | 00:24:04 | |
| that that that's in there. If if you want something more at like the front end for a political, what we do is we run through the | 00:24:09 | |
| general plan all the goals and objectives and we grab the ones that we find are applicable either in a good way or a bad way and | 00:24:14 | |
| then we try to do like a short analysis on it. | 00:24:19 | |
| I saw the microphone creeping closer to you. | 00:24:25 | |
| I agree. | 00:24:34 | |
| Now. | 00:24:36 | |
| That would make a good point specifically at least from staff reports that come from us, we'll we'll make sure that they highlight | 00:24:40 | |
| their goals, the goal, the goals that it's achieving in terms of what like what this particular project is achieving in terms of | 00:24:47 | |
| from the general plan and specifically the types of goals that the general plans outlining. So this way when you see the Wind | 00:24:53 | |
| Planning Commission sees the staff report. | 00:24:59 | |
| They know that we've done I do buildings to ensure that we're abiding to our dining lines being the general plan. | 00:25:05 | |
| Have you received land use manuals? | 00:25:15 | |
| Have you ordered the land use manuals for them? | 00:25:21 | |
| I'm embarrassing him. | 00:25:25 | |
| Publicly over it, because you all should be receiving land use manuals. They're just books that talk about all the different, you | 00:25:27 | |
| know, Council Planning Commission. And I found it really helpful because it helps you understand what Planning Commission can do. | 00:25:34 | |
| So she gave me the reference, She gave me the contact. Amber Radison gave me the contact to the Ombudsman. So I'll be reaching | 00:25:40 | |
| out. | 00:25:47 | |
| She still loves me. | 00:25:56 | |
| One of you would prefer an Audible version of it that we can look see if they have one. I'm not like some audiobook. I think that | 00:25:57 | |
| would put me something like something I can search more easily. I think that's the benefit of like PDF writing. I don't believe | 00:26:06 | |
| that they have an ebook version of it, like a locally made book by somebody in Utah. Yeah. | 00:26:14 | |
| We're looking around and very surprising physical copies because it is a really good book. I honestly, I referenced that book. | 00:26:22 | |
| To make this presentation. It's really good stuff. I'm in front of this stuff. | 00:26:27 | |
| So does anybody have any comments on the red lines specifically? | 00:26:34 | |
| Other other comments, I just wanted to make sure that from the Heritage Commission that they were OK. That sounds like there may | 00:26:40 | |
| be some things that were trimmed down that it's correct. Yeah, we would like to come back and make some additional proposals. | 00:26:46 | |
| Yeah, that's great. We want to have them. | 00:26:52 | |
| Yeah, for sure. For sure. We can definitely accommodate that, absolutely. I have a quick question. So in Vineyard, do we actually | 00:26:58 | |
| have any buildings or sites that are, I guess? | 00:27:03 | |
| Identified 4 historical preservation. And I know like for buildings, there's actually like a state process to formally recognize | 00:27:09 | |
| these. Do we actually have any, Tim, are you able to speak on that? Yeah, I'm not aware of any that have gone through a process of | 00:27:17 | |
| preservation for that purpose. We really only have one existing home from the early Pioneer days still around and in use. And | 00:27:25 | |
| that's one on the corner of 400 S and Holdaway Rd. kind of on the corner. | 00:27:33 | |
| It's an original Adobe building. | 00:27:42 | |
| But there are some that go back to the early 20s and 30s but not back in the 1800s and there's been no effort on the land owners. | 00:27:45 | |
| You know current form forever so so we have had one of one request to make you guys probably heard this about a million times the | 00:28:39 | |
| other way road bike Blvd. and potentially calling that once it's formally established a a heritage road and to do sign in a | 00:28:45 | |
| certain tree treatments like that. So you feel like as you could come onto that road that you're in kind of a special district a | 00:28:52 | |
| little different. So I know there's some interest from the city and and doing that but we're still kind of a ways away on the | 00:28:58 | |
| whole way road bike Blvd. project. | 00:29:04 | |
| But, and we do have the one section of Lakeview Dr. that has Siamese up recognizing it as Walters way. | 00:29:10 | |
| Those signs were put up probably six or eight months ago, just to recognize the historical nature of that particular part of a Rd. | 00:29:22 | |
| But it's minimal. | 00:29:29 | |
| Yeah, and the wording in the in the general plan language is is general enough that it it goes outside of just buildings, talks | 00:29:34 | |
| about structures and sites and other other things. | 00:29:40 | |
| So OK, so do we do we want to close on this section on on the red lines. | 00:29:45 | |
| For now, we will continue in the future Planning Commission meeting. | 00:29:53 | |
| OK. Yeah, we'll do that for now. The last portion of this presentation that I wanted to touch on is feature community engagement. | 00:29:59 | |
| So we are discussing how how can we make the topic of of heritage, of history interesting and relevant with with the with the | 00:30:07 | |
| residents. That's one of the things that is challenging. | 00:30:14 | |
| How can create ideas that are creative and interesting and fun and actually engage people? | 00:30:23 | |
| So that's one thing that I wanted to ask you guys is what ideas, if any, can we focus on moving forward? | 00:30:28 | |
| And Brian? | 00:30:39 | |
| Just just putting parameters, we're talking specifically as a Planning Commission. | 00:30:41 | |
| Working through this general plan process on these questions, are you looking for more open? | 00:30:47 | |
| Yeah, I guess input I guess in my mind it's kind of like for this aspect of the general plan, but also we can implement them for | 00:30:53 | |
| other things that we do heritage related, but for now with updating the general plan. | 00:31:00 | |
| When do you have a comment on matter? | 00:31:08 | |
| Anyway, that, that that's an idea of kind of getting people to maybe engage 'cause they're gonna be, it's gonna be very relevant | 00:32:19 | |
| to the anatomy of when I've lived here 5-6 years. But I think I think you'll also get some of those further reaching back type | 00:32:24 | |
| stories and, you know, things that are connected with the heritage. | 00:32:30 | |
| Yeah, and so storytelling is a wonderful way to capture. | 00:32:36 | |
| History, development, if you will, reaching back. And we, we understand there are some oral histories available from Geneva steel | 00:32:43 | |
| workers or trying to find some of those, and we would like to collect a lot more because that age of population is diminishing and | 00:32:50 | |
| the same is true with those who lived here early on in the agricultural life. | 00:32:58 | |
| We'd like to collect more oral stories, oral histories of people that could then be available. But you know and and then the the | 00:33:07 | |
| current history. I think that's an intriguing thing because we're all trying to leave a legacy of some kind. We're all trying to | 00:33:15 | |
| build on something and leave a legacy. So that's current history and even what I'd call future history, you know. So if there are | 00:33:23 | |
| ways to capture stories of of what brought people to Vineyard today and and why are they here and something about their. | 00:33:31 | |
| But I think that would build even public involvement by beginning in the elementary schools, teaching people about, you know, the | 00:34:14 | |
| young people that are going to go home and then tell mom and dad, hey, did you know kind of thing about about vineyards? So just | 00:34:19 | |
| another element that we're currently working on. | 00:34:25 | |
| Tim, Yet another really great idea. | 00:34:32 | |
| This is my talking point, but you have mentioned kind of like. | 00:34:35 | |
| We even thought it could be somewhat competitive. You have like a test and then you bring the other public meetings say OK, we're | 00:35:14 | |
| going to go through how how many can answer this question kind of thing, you know and. | 00:35:19 | |
| I don't know. | 00:35:25 | |
| There's something that I mentioned in our last meeting was that we need to theme it in some way. We need to have things. If we | 00:35:28 | |
| just say heritage, I feel like the majority of the average person here in Vineyard just will immediately after that stop | 00:35:35 | |
| listening. Not the heritage isn't great, but if there's themes to the heritage, then it's easier to build off of that. Like | 00:35:43 | |
| certain cities have very specific themes for their heritage and if we can have some. | 00:35:50 | |
| Defining themes where we're like this is Vineyard is known for this, this and this like, then we can build off of that a lot | 00:35:58 | |
| easier than just heritage in general, because that's such a broad word. | 00:36:04 | |
| Singing and like activities or in everything in general. I mean if like I'm trying to think of another city. | 00:36:10 | |
| American pork, I mean, something kind of like that, yeah. But other cities like are they're famous for cheese or they're famous | 00:36:21 | |
| for something. And it's not that they're famous necessarily because they're still doing it, but it's something that was done in | 00:36:27 | |
| their past, and they're famous for it because of their past. And so, and they're only famous for it because they promoted it and | 00:36:34 | |
| promoted it and promoted it and they sell hats and shirts and whatever. | 00:36:40 | |
| And if we can't define our heritage, then it's hard to build something out of it. It's almost like branding, right? That's kind of | 00:36:48 | |
| what you're getting at. | 00:36:52 | |
| Just to kind of put it back off that, so for example, the city I came from was established back into the Civil War area era by. | 00:36:58 | |
| By individuals, people at the end of the end of the Civil War. So it was called Soldier City as a nickname. But you're correct. I | 00:37:10 | |
| mean, they went through rebranding and they came up with like 3 different logos. | 00:37:15 | |
| Or three different symbols for the part of the branding and part of their heritage was always part of that around those emphasis | 00:37:21 | |
| like being veterans. The other one I pulled out, the other one is they were on a big giant lake like VR and then of course they | 00:37:27 | |
| had certain types of birds that was everywhere, so. | 00:37:32 | |
| I think a lot of that gets to, and this is, I'm glad, Tim, you shared what you did at the beginning of the meeting because I think | 00:37:40 | |
| a lot of it gets to the why, right? Why does the city exist? | 00:37:45 | |
| Why it is So what What is vineyards? Why, why it is Vineyard exists as a city and not just a another neighborhood in Orem or or an | 00:37:50 | |
| extension of Linden down on the shore. And so I think that gets to what you're saying Bryce. You know the cities that kind of | 00:37:57 | |
| tapped into their their why they exist in the first place. | 00:38:03 | |
| And how does that connect to the people that are there? I think if our heritage if, if with what we focus on. | 00:38:10 | |
| Granted that what Vineyard is today is very different than what it was in the 80s when it first became an incorporated town, but | 00:38:17 | |
| maybe the why isn't that as different? You know, maybe it's not agriculture anymore, but maybe it's people are still looking for. | 00:38:26 | |
| A different experience than what they find an aura more Provo and some other neighboring communities. And the the way that the | 00:38:36 | |
| city you know is embracing and this is maybe just coming from my head. But the way we're embracing the Lakeshore and trying to | 00:38:42 | |
| address it is very different than every, you know most other cities in Utah County and trying to use that as an amenity is | 00:38:49 | |
| something that we celebrate and. | 00:38:55 | |
| You know the theme around independence. | 00:39:03 | |
| You know, and and being distinctly different intentionally, I don't know. I think there's maybe some ideas in there that you can | 00:39:06 | |
| that could be tapped into to that theme or to that branding that's that that that can appeal to the newer residents and help them | 00:39:14 | |
| feel connected to the original residents. And the reason that Vineyard exists as a town and has its own identity as a as a place. | 00:39:22 | |
| And Geneva Steel and like just the people that worked in vineyard and were self-made and Vineyard like talking about just | 00:40:06 | |
| employment opportunities and. | 00:40:11 | |
| Stuff like that, economic stuff. I think we can theme it. I think there are ways to theme. I don't know the history well enough to | 00:40:19 | |
| do it, but I think that could be seen really well. | 00:40:24 | |
| I'll add to that that I think that the heritage and the history can be. | 00:40:31 | |
| Yeah. Sometimes when people think history, they think go back to the good old days. Today is always bad. Yes, yesterday was always | 00:41:11 | |
| better, right? Like this. I don't think that's what we want to honor the past while we while we continue to move forward too. And | 00:41:15 | |
| so I think there's an opportunity to kind of pull out. | 00:41:20 | |
| Some of the values are the characteristics that got our city to where it is today and we'll leave it into the future too. So I | 00:41:25 | |
| think there's some key opportunities there. I also think it's important you know, answering some of these questions. I think we | 00:41:32 | |
| have done a good job engaging the public on the last go around. I think it's always beneficial when we focus on. | 00:41:39 | |
| What people want versus kind of a cheap response of what I don't like because. | 00:41:46 | |
| And we can have a quick conversation. | 00:42:26 | |
| That Anthony's already initiated. | 00:42:30 | |
| To the segue? Yeah, Segway. | 00:42:33 | |
| Some of the the comments that we've we've had in the past is. | 00:42:38 | |
| What do we do with public input? What we go out and we get it. | 00:42:44 | |
| And I think that there's a distress level. | 00:42:49 | |
| In. | 00:42:53 | |
| OK, you do surveys, you do questionnaires, you have meetings and you put sticky pads and sticky notes up on the wall. What's the | 00:42:55 | |
| result that comes from that effort? I think the public would be a lot more responsive to providing input if they felt it's really | 00:43:02 | |
| used if it's valuable to the decision makers. And I think we don't have a good history in Vineyard to be able to show that and and | 00:43:10 | |
| so one of my thoughts is. | 00:43:17 | |
| What's the value of getting public input if we're not going to use it? | 00:43:25 | |
| OK, so we want to make value. We want to make it valuable. So we're going to make an effort to go get it. | 00:43:31 | |
| What will that? How will that value translate into something useful? | 00:43:37 | |
| Those are just some philosophical thoughts I've had about. | 00:43:42 | |
| Public input is really good. | 00:43:46 | |
| On some things and other times it's not useful. | 00:43:48 | |
| And so would it be more useful here to get broader opinions, broader perspectives, more buy in to the future? You know, what is | 00:43:52 | |
| the reason for getting it? | 00:43:57 | |
| And then how are we going to build trust to show that we'll actually use it? And when we don't use it because we've made decisions | 00:44:03 | |
| that we feel are better, how do we explain that to the public? Because public input is just that, It's simply input, it's we're | 00:44:10 | |
| not required to follow it. So anyway, those are just some broad philosophical questions that I would put here. | 00:44:17 | |
| And I I definitely agree. I think it is. | 00:44:26 | |
| And again on the engineering side, when we take, when we come up to this situation like for example Rollaway Rd. as in one and on | 00:45:37 | |
| Center St. there was a traffic maneuvering sign that was that that was twice here that was causing some issues and we took public | 00:45:46 | |
| input in terms of that from different types of sources like for example Facebook or petition and so forth. And with that we | 00:45:54 | |
| applied our engineering portion of it, but also we didn't want to make sure that we were listening to the UN aspect of it. | 00:46:02 | |
| And. | 00:46:10 | |
| The even aspect and then to address that and then communicate that we did hear people because really at the end we want to. I want | 00:46:13 | |
| to believe that. | 00:46:17 | |
| The feedback that we get from the public is downtown. | 00:46:23 | |
| I guess maybe we'll start wrapping up the the conversation, but I I think we've heard really wonderful thoughts tonight. I think | 00:46:33 | |
| good things for us as a staff. | 00:46:37 | |
| To think about as we receive and use and share the input that we've received from people. | 00:46:41 | |
| In terms of moving forward on the specific project of updating the the the element of the general plan. | 00:46:49 | |
| Let's try use the Commission. | 00:46:59 | |
| For the next time that we may or one of our soon to come Planning Commission meetings if not the next one, let's put some of these | 00:47:02 | |
| ideas on paper and and add to those red lines if if you see an appropriate place to add. And then we can continue that discussion | 00:47:09 | |
| and and we'll continue to think about everything that was said today in terms of engagement and how we we can maximize our our | 00:47:16 | |
| efforts to to get public input. | 00:47:23 | |
| I only have anything to say. | 00:47:31 | |
| OK. So awesome. Thank you. | 00:47:35 | |
| Any other comments from the? | 00:47:39 | |
| Thanks, Brian. We will move on to item 5.2 then the Geneva retail mixed-use zone. | 00:47:43 | |
| Morgan, you will be presenting this again at the work session, so no action will be taken. | 00:47:50 | |
| Yep, no action. | 00:47:56 | |
| All right. I just want to highlight the property for you. | 00:48:05 | |
| Mostly you're pretty familiar with this. | 00:48:10 | |
| Sorry, I didn't have the microphone on. So the Geneva Retail mixes district, it comprises these, I think it's 10 or 11. This one | 00:48:14 | |
| splits maybe it's 11 lots, which starts from O'Reilly Auto Parts and moves its way northward. You see kind of this piece right | 00:48:21 | |
| here that's the Central Utah Water District parcel that they were trying to get a well sighted. So it incorporates this area right | 00:48:27 | |
| here. | 00:48:34 | |
| I pull over my staff report and I'll make a few comments and then you might want to just have do you guys have a PowerPoint or | 00:48:42 | |
| something? OK, great. | 00:48:45 | |
| All right. | 00:48:55 | |
| So. | 00:48:58 | |
| This development, what's being proposed, is essentially providing. | 00:49:00 | |
| The building to do a mixed-use development on the north side of the of the project which would be similar in the architectural | 00:49:04 | |
| field and kind of massing that you would see on the north side of 400 N. | 00:49:10 | |
| And so the city staff and working with some of the council members, we would really like to see kind of your three or four parcels | 00:49:17 | |
| up here have kind of that urban mixed-use connection with the Northside. The applicant is requesting auto oriented uses and so | 00:49:23 | |
| that would be for like auto services, car washes and those types of uses. Currently the, the zoning code that does not allow for | 00:49:30 | |
| this. So O'Reilly auto parts is we look at that it's a it's a primary retail business. So we look at the primary function and that | 00:49:36 | |
| it's retail. | 00:49:42 | |
| They do like some battery swapping. They'll test your batteries. Yeah. They'll help you out with some very small things in the | 00:49:49 | |
| parking lot. For the most part. It's a it's a retail business as you know the property or maybe you don't know. But when the | 00:49:56 | |
| central Utah water came through, there was a minute flat on these 3 N properties. So that's why the the parcel number is a little | 00:50:02 | |
| funky. I try to provide an explanation of that in the staff report. | 00:50:08 | |
| Wanted to also highlight kind of the general plan stuff. So sometimes it's probably helpful just to point it out. | 00:50:16 | |
| I think we need to probably do a better job at the front end having these things. So you know it's not buried in the report. But | 00:50:22 | |
| well we we went through the the, the, the plan, you know the code from the heritage portion of that, their code speaks to like a | 00:50:29 | |
| familiar and traditional setting for for users. There's not necessarily like architectural requirements that would require like a | 00:50:36 | |
| heritage type type thing. But you know they they did have something that that was kind of akin to that. | 00:50:43 | |
| So the well, like one of the main points of the general plan that that worked out really well is going to bring in cards to access | 00:50:52 | |
| to services. | 00:50:56 | |
| Providing kind of like the human scale development and so we we we marked a few few of these if you guys want to go through this. | 00:51:02 | |
| This is just kind of a work session. You don't have to do this right now but you know you're on time kind of took prep for the the | 00:51:07 | |
| public hearing that that'll be following. | 00:51:12 | |
| Staff is working with the applicant on several different portions of of the district. Sorry, it's got double screen on me. | 00:51:19 | |
| And. | 00:51:30 | |
| So they've they started their their updated draft, so we'll work on that, refine it. You guys have had both the language kind of | 00:51:32 | |
| the overall staff comment and I think right now would be a good time to have the applicant get up kind of give the vision of of | 00:51:38 | |
| the the district that that and overall kind of what their goal is to accomplish with that. | 00:51:44 | |
| Can you just clarify again then? So we're talking about the lots up at the corner. | 00:51:52 | |
| For a mixed-use project and then the remaining lots to the South with a more auto oriented commercial standalone buildings. | 00:51:58 | |
| Yeah, So that right now they're all under the RMU zone. And so this would be a zoning math amendment. I would flip those into a | 00:52:09 | |
| new zoning district and Geneva retail mixed-use. There's there's a lot of similarities between the RMU. One of the other things | 00:52:15 | |
| too and I think this is a good discussion to have with with the applicant is in regards to residential, you know whether or not | 00:52:22 | |
| you'd be open to the mixed-use portion of that housing residential or if you'd like to see more office, professional office | 00:52:28 | |
| service. | 00:52:35 | |
| That are mixed together. So but anyway that that's a conversation that we do need to have and so the Afghan needs to hear your | 00:52:42 | |
| comments and feedback on it. Can you also speak to access points off of Geneva Rd. because it's not one per parcel, correct? No, | 00:52:49 | |
| no it's not. There's a Geneva Rd. shared access management plan between Orem U dot and and Vineyard. Obviously you're going to get | 00:52:56 | |
| your access on the north side for 400 N once that intersection improvements occur. | 00:53:04 | |
| A back access, an easement that runs the length and I'm sure Jason can kind of get more details on that. And then there's I think | 00:53:12 | |
| sort of in the middle is the full. | 00:53:16 | |
| Access onto Geneva and then there's a possibility of adding right in, right out by any two others on the corridor. | 00:53:22 | |
| OK, let's have the applicant then. | 00:53:31 | |
| Up and share with what you've gotten and we'll ask our questions. | 00:53:34 | |
| So. | 00:53:48 | |
| Well, he's getting that. | 00:53:53 | |
| Morning. I didn't mention that. When you have an updated version, we've been working with staff. | 00:53:56 | |
| Has some feedback on some of the different items, so this is an updated version. | 00:54:02 | |
| Still not necessarily the final version. | 00:54:09 | |
| Steps. | 00:54:16 | |
| Into the process, but we're excited to be here tonight to hear. | 00:54:17 | |
| Your thoughts on what it is we are? | 00:54:21 | |
| It's gone. | 00:54:32 | |
| That hours. | 00:54:35 | |
| You know I have to download it the the two can't fit next to each other for some reason. All right, sorry Here, I need that one | 00:54:40 | |
| more minute. | 00:54:43 | |
| Sorry, just to clarify. So this this text is. | 00:55:13 | |
| Based on the RMU text or this is a OK. | 00:55:17 | |
| So the under when you say underlying new codex to the art, the RMU. | 00:55:21 | |
| So. | 00:55:26 | |
| This is, it will be a new code. It's a new code section. We took the RMU district right and made as a template basically. So | 00:55:28 | |
| underline means it's new code to the. | 00:55:33 | |
| Previous to the RMU as the template, and then strikethrough is where you remove stuff from what arm you had, so there's no | 00:55:39 | |
| strikethrough. This is just additions, yeah, because it is a new section, so we're not modifying the RNU at all, OK? | 00:55:47 | |
| If you want to go to the next one that show the reasoning why, I mean the RMU is a large area and we're just talking about a very | 00:55:56 | |
| small area with some very unique circumstances that it seems appropriate, this seems like an appropriate. | 00:56:04 | |
| Process and methodology to. | 00:56:12 | |
| Identify standards that are appropriate for that limited scope in that limited area. | 00:56:15 | |
| So next one. | 00:56:22 | |
| Thank you. So it highlighted highlighting yellow. This is what we're talking about with O'Reilly O'reilly's building on the South. | 00:56:25 | |
| And so as you can see, this subdivision is is really unique in that it sits between the multifamily and Geneva Rd. As we've talked | 00:56:32 | |
| about, access is is limited there. When the plot was recorded, there were several access points and a shared driveway shared | 00:56:40 | |
| access across the frontage and then there's also an easement across the back. | 00:56:48 | |
| Utility easement that goes all the way down. We anticipate utilizing as. | 00:56:56 | |
| Access as well, especially on the northern parcels where there wouldn't be the ability to that frontage Rd. | 00:57:03 | |
| To to access 400 as it's too close to the intersection. | 00:57:12 | |
| So based on the location. | 00:57:15 | |
| And the needs. I think it didn't make sense to modify the whole RMU code as opposed to just adopting a specific code for those | 00:57:20 | |
| specific blocks. | 00:57:26 | |
| So this is actually. | 00:57:35 | |
| This is the plat. We can't really see it all that well, but in the flat there's a partial A across the top, so north is to the | 00:57:36 | |
| left. | 00:57:41 | |
| The partially across the top which is you got owned parcel. | 00:57:46 | |
| And then there are the access points. The shared access points are included there as well. | 00:57:52 | |
| I don't know if you can. Can you see it very well? OK, so. | 00:58:00 | |
| There's actually 3. | 00:58:06 | |
| Free access points. | 00:58:12 | |
| And then you can see on the furthest N parcel that shared driveway requirement. There's no frontage. That shared access. Shared | 00:58:13 | |
| driveway doesn't go across the front for that long. | 00:58:18 | |
| And then you can see across the back the West side of those lots, there is that utility piece that that funds all of all of those | 00:58:24 | |
| parcels. What's the, what's the actual width and depth of of those lots? | 00:58:31 | |
| Of. | 00:58:41 | |
| OK. I can say that on the record. So you pick it up, so there are two 275 feet deep approximately and 150. | 00:58:44 | |
| 275 feet wide. | 00:58:55 | |
| Yep. | 00:58:58 | |
| So what we're proposing is a new section code, the Geneva Rd. mixed-use applicable only to that area that was highlighted in | 00:59:02 | |
| yellow. It is based on regional mixed-use that was the starting starting point on the template. | 00:59:10 | |
| And as as Morgan mentioned one of the. | 00:59:18 | |
| The the driving forces in adopting this new zone is to allow more auto centric uses. And the goal isn't just to rezone it to Hwy. | 00:59:25 | |
| commercial and heavy commercial. That's not the intent. The intent is to take the mixed-use zone and allow some more auto centric | 00:59:33 | |
| uses while still requiring those things in the mixed-use that are important. | 00:59:42 | |
| So it's almost a transitional zone between Geneva Road and the regional mixed-use. | 00:59:51 | |
| And so that's that's the main, one of the main reasons that we're taking this approach. So it does and we do include design | 01:00:00 | |
| criteria for the buildings and specific lot standards for the loss. So it's not a matter of let's just allow whatever and you can | 01:00:07 | |
| do whatever and that's one of the things that's why we're here. We're excited for this work session to hear your thoughts as we | 01:00:14 | |
| work to refine the code. So one of the things. | 01:00:20 | |
| The the use table generally copied the regional mixed-use for what is permitted, with few exceptions. | 01:00:28 | |
| As Morgan mentioned, the first one being the vehicle and equipment repair miner and I included the definitions. So the vehicle and | 01:00:36 | |
| equipment repair major, that is not what we're interested in doing at all As far as auto body repair, you know heavy auto repair | 01:00:43 | |
| paint. | 01:00:50 | |
| Heavy equipment repair, that sort of thing. It is the vehicle and equipment repair miner. | 01:00:58 | |
| So the maintenance, vehicle oil change, facilities, air conditioning repair, the intent is you know vehicles come and are repaired | 01:01:04 | |
| and leave. It's not that they're stored there that that they're there for an extended period of time is kind of what that the | 01:01:11 | |
| distinction in general terms between the two. | 01:01:17 | |
| And then the other one that is a conditional use currently in the RMU is the car wash which would be a permitted use. And we've | 01:01:25 | |
| we've talked to staff and I think there's several different ways of of going about it. Our approach is to include some very | 01:01:33 | |
| specific standards that may not be appropriate elsewhere in the city as opposed to amending the code so that all car washes have | 01:01:40 | |
| to meet these specific standards where we're talking about a limited area we can really. | 01:01:48 | |
| Dial in to. | 01:01:56 | |
| Good standards and some good mitigation strategies to include in the code so that it is would be a permitted use. Is the intent | 01:01:58 | |
| just a question on the the tires? | 01:02:04 | |
| Would this allow for? | 01:02:11 | |
| Retail shops that sell only tires, and I mean I noticed there that you can install tires and things like that would be a minor, | 01:02:14 | |
| but is it also minor to have a? | 01:02:19 | |
| Tire sales facility like Big O or something like that. Yeah, I mean and typically those places if they're selling them, they're | 01:02:25 | |
| installing them. | 01:02:30 | |
| Which is, which is permitted under the repair. I think if they're just selling something, it would be a retailer. Yeah, I think it | 01:02:35 | |
| would be allowed. Yeah, I think so. | 01:02:41 | |
| The. | 01:02:48 | |
| Can you just because I don't know can you share what auto centric? | 01:02:51 | |
| Can you give us a broad spectrum of what Autocentric would be? I understand car washing and things like that, but what other types | 01:02:57 | |
| of Autocentric businesses, I mean I think this the vehicle and equipment for a minor kind of talks about those types of uses, so | 01:03:03 | |
| places that provide oil changes for vehicles that. | 01:03:09 | |
| And are there others that you can think of that well, I mean, there's places like the two necks that do. | 01:03:19 | |
| I mean they may do oil changes, but they also do the air conditioning repair, you know the battery front end alignments, | 01:03:27 | |
| businesses like that. So alignment balancing would be part of that as well. | 01:03:34 | |
| I'm just trying to. | 01:03:43 | |
| I'm just trying to picture, as I'm driving down Geneva, what kinds of businesses might I see? | 01:03:44 | |
| There, yeah. And again, I think the we'll get to it, but the intent is as you're envisioning that is that it's not just a straight | 01:03:49 | |
| highway commercial type. | 01:03:54 | |
| Development that there are design standards and design criteria to ensure that it it fits the character of a vineyard and division | 01:04:02 | |
| of vineyard. | 01:04:07 | |
| So going through some of the. | 01:04:16 | |
| Specific standards. So we do talk about the rear alley and then the northern lots being accessed by the rear alley and the desire | 01:04:18 | |
| to have the buildings placed as close to Geneva Rd. as as possible in the parking areas not permitted in the front yards that the | 01:04:27 | |
| parking would would be in the rear. So again, kind of a distinction from what a typical. | 01:04:36 | |
| Highway commercial type business businesses look like so these would sit closer to Geneva than say the AutoZone is because it has | 01:04:46 | |
| parking in front and that is correct. Yep. So and I guess that's a good litmus test. So to stay as to what is permitted, what's | 01:04:53 | |
| been permitted there already and the product that's been placed there versus what it what the vision is that we have of what we're | 01:05:01 | |
| proposing, Do we feel like we're we're pretty comfortable knowing with Geneva. | 01:05:08 | |
| Plans for Geneva Rd. Where? | 01:05:16 | |
| Because if, you know, if when it gets widened that we're not putting buildings and businesses, I mean I like having the businesses | 01:05:19 | |
| close the road, but. | 01:05:23 | |
| Do we feel like we're comfortable, we know where that's going to land when Geneva gets widened? Yes, through conversations with | 01:05:28 | |
| with you not as well as as I mentioned in that plat there is that parcel a that buffer already that would allow when I need those | 01:05:36 | |
| widen for that to be utilized for U dot for their. And typically what we're seeing now U dot is keeping the the sidewalk and park | 01:05:43 | |
| strip and those things within there right away. So they have control over it. | 01:05:50 | |
| And that's what the conversation has been what what we anticipate happening there. Because then I guess that would be my next | 01:05:58 | |
| question is what that interface would look like as it's phased right if if these parcels get developed? | 01:06:04 | |
| We know Geneva is going to get widened. Where does the sidewalk land? What gets what? What do you do with that space, the | 01:06:11 | |
| interstitial in between space that's waiting for Geneva to come in. There's a little, there's a little dance there that I'm, I | 01:06:19 | |
| guess I'm curious how that would play out. The intent is to bring the buildings as close as possible. Where part of the challenge | 01:06:27 | |
| is there is that shared driveway easement across the front of the lots, especially all of the southern lots and so. | 01:06:35 | |
| What we're proposing is that the setbacks are measured off that 20 foot. | 01:06:45 | |
| A 25 foot access easement in the front where that's required, where that's not required that we're able to push the buildings a | 01:06:50 | |
| little bit further. | 01:06:54 | |
| Closer to the road which is further north in the subdivision and that that strip actually gets wider, so there is more room for U | 01:07:01 | |
| dot to develop within the right of way within that park strip in that in the northern portion of the the development. | 01:07:08 | |
| So would you not be putting in the sidewalks and stuff along there or would that be part of the development requirements on the | 01:07:16 | |
| City side? | 01:07:20 | |
| So for on the with the Geneva comment going through D dollar typically like real estate of DDOP would like to have the actual | 01:07:25 | |
| sidewalks within the UDAB right away it's U dot. If there's any kind of connections along I want to Geneva that the developer is | 01:07:32 | |
| going to be discussing E dot D dot criteria that's between E dot and developer at that time. | 01:07:39 | |
| So again, these are an excellent questions and that's really what's unique about this area that you know elsewhere in the Army you | 01:07:49 | |
| obviously don't have these kinds of. | 01:07:53 | |
| Questions and issues. So Jason, can you clarify then on the on the front floor lots you're showing in in the plat that that front | 01:07:58 | |
| easement, our preference obviously is to not have a driveway in front of the mixed-use building. Would you be amending the plat to | 01:08:06 | |
| pull that back off of off of those four lots? So we probably need to get into a little more, little more detail where we don't | 01:08:14 | |
| have site designs and specific uses identified for each of each of the laws. | 01:08:22 | |
| And so I. | 01:08:30 | |
| Yeah. I mean the intent with with this was that the Northern 4 lots are accessed by the alley to allow that flexibility of a of a | 01:08:32 | |
| mixed-use development and mixed-use project there. However, the, you know we're not proposing the code to identify a specific use | 01:08:40 | |
| for each specific law per SE. Yeah. And I don't think we are either, but I think it's like kind of the unifying theme is like the | 01:08:48 | |
| north be be mixed-use and so that that's where I'm maybe having a little consternation is having the. | 01:08:56 | |
| They are accessed via the rear cool. | 01:09:37 | |
| What? Is there a proposed height limit in this? Are you changing that it's staying with what the RMU is, so it's #5 on page 2. | 01:09:41 | |
| So 66 feet. And that's what's currently zoned for that area anyway. | 01:09:53 | |
| I don't what what stops this development? Well, I guess the question is what? What makes this difference that we don't end up kind | 01:09:58 | |
| of like State Street and where? | 01:10:02 | |
| Where it takes forever to turn in and out of a similar I think shopping centers and locations like this, what would the I guess | 01:10:08 | |
| parking and and traffic situation be like? So I think really the rear alley across the lots is especially those northern lots and | 01:10:15 | |
| the limited access points that are. | 01:10:22 | |
| Between the rear alley, the limited access points off Geneva Road and the front share drive on, the other locks are really what | 01:10:31 | |
| makes this a lot different. | 01:10:36 | |
| Than our standard strip mall type development or orange straight through State Street where every lot has has a driveway and has | 01:10:42 | |
| an access. That's a really good point. I mean consolidating driveway, I mean you look at 10 lots if you have 3. | 01:10:48 | |
| Entry points into the site. I mean that's that's seven less than what like a State Street configuration would have. Additionally | 01:10:57 | |
| to we have a sign ordinance that's a lot different than what the historic forum sign ordinance was, but that's where all those are | 01:11:01 | |
| vested. Jeff knows this described very well. | 01:11:06 | |
| Having have worked on State Street but we so our sign code doesn't allow for just your straight pull signs that they see on | 01:11:12 | |
| station. That actually has a pretty big impact. I think you guys intention too is like your standalone sign would be more of a | 01:11:17 | |
| multi tenant sign right like consolidating signage. So you're not going to have 10 separate like no monument signs on the street, | 01:11:23 | |
| your brain try to consolidate them. | 01:11:28 | |
| That answer your question? | 01:11:36 | |
| So I can't help but feel like writing a new zoning ordinance is just a way to get more. | 01:11:39 | |
| Units Residential units in A. | 01:11:48 | |
| You didn't mention really anything about residential units and that's going to be the big sticking point for a lot of people | 01:11:51 | |
| because you have to alloy the Concord, the Vine, Lincoln Square, all of those areas are. | 01:11:57 | |
| Mixed-use and none of them have any retail in them. | 01:12:03 | |
| And then we just added the, the apartments just north with the top golf facility. Really I don't want to see any residential use | 01:12:08 | |
| in this area at all because this is supposed to be the mixed-use for Concorde Divine Lincoln Square, the alloy. | 01:12:16 | |
| And yeah, I just want to say that right now for. | 01:12:26 | |
| What? What is? What was your intention with any kind of residential? | 01:12:29 | |
| So on page two, number three is the residential intensity but. | 01:12:36 | |
| I mean I think we'll be honest that the intent is this is a commercial development. It is a pullover from the regional mixed-use | 01:12:40 | |
| zone and that that is an aspect of the mixed-use zone is residential. And so there was talk of including residential units on the | 01:12:50 | |
| second story type with a you know a commercial first story. We are identifying that if. | 01:13:00 | |
| Residential is to happen. It is going to be done through the development agreement. | 01:13:10 | |
| So that's I guess that's if it goes up to 85 units. So currently the RMU is at the 26 units per acre. | 01:13:20 | |
| Is that the current? Yes. And there has the development stipulation that was that was placed that's also in the RMU? Yeah, yeah, | 01:13:28 | |
| that that was done through the, the, the, the, the text amendment that happened last year, but it's maxed out currently as far as | 01:13:34 | |
| residential units goes. So technically there can't be any residential units here unless. | 01:13:40 | |
| So 66 feet is how many floors stories. | 01:15:01 | |
| Is that two or three 563? Yeah, it depends on the office buildings, probably be a little bit less on a residential. I think you | 01:15:06 | |
| can crunch them in a, but it depends on how they're designed. | 01:15:13 | |
| And so if these are multi storied and it sounds like some of them will be. | 01:15:21 | |
| If residences weren't on those upper floors, what would then go in businesses, I mean private offices is that what could draw. So | 01:15:27 | |
| I I guess they're yeah office is a possibility. There is no requirement that they build to that height and and the other thing to | 01:15:35 | |
| remember is the site size, there are big constraints on the site size as far as going extremely tall and so yes, I mean if it was | 01:15:43 | |
| going to be a multi story mixed-use typically. | 01:15:51 | |
| What's on those additional stories are residential and office space. | 01:15:59 | |
| Steve Hutchings, Sex development, Most likely on that corner if we don't get residential, which honestly, we're not saying, hey, | 01:16:06 | |
| we need residential on this. | 01:16:10 | |
| It was brought up to us by staff saying that'd be really cool because of our N development, this residential, maybe having | 01:16:16 | |
| something that mirrors that and really having that really good entrance into Vineyard where I think the city staff and other | 01:16:22 | |
| people have been dissatisfied with Center St. and kind of how that entrance. | 01:16:28 | |
| Turned out I see 800 N is the open field at the well on the corner and like how that's turned out and so we we were like OK yeah | 01:16:35 | |
| we're we're OK to look into this. So but we're not coming saying let's let's go in let's add a whole bunch of other units. If we | 01:16:45 | |
| don't do a six story residential what name level commercial then most likely that corner would be a one story building. | 01:16:54 | |
| Developing an office right now? We'd love to, but like. | 01:17:05 | |
| We've had one tenant come in, you know, in the last. | 01:17:08 | |
| You know like three years, two years and then you had actually brought the tenant to us and. | 01:17:13 | |
| Was. You know, we actually really love that tenant, but. | 01:17:18 | |
| Not sure if there's a deal to be made there or not, especially on this site with the amount of square footage they need. I don't | 01:17:22 | |
| think it's likely that it would be mainstream main level commercial, you know, like retail with office above. You know, if there's | 01:17:28 | |
| demand for that. Personally, I'd love to. You know that I don't know if the parking would allow like we we have a little site | 01:17:34 | |
| layout with the parking structure that would be very similar to our N site. We have 6 levels of parking and basically almost | 01:17:41 | |
| mimicking the exact same thing. | 01:17:47 | |
| That's the only reason it's in there, you know? So we're we're honestly fine either way. Cool. | 01:17:53 | |
| I would just mirror. | 01:18:02 | |
| Rice's comments. | 01:18:04 | |
| I don't like the idea of anymore residents residential. | 01:18:06 | |
| Along that area at all. | 01:18:12 | |
| I think we've gone back on our word not word that been on our plans and we've made amendments to allow for for it and. | 01:18:14 | |
| I'd just like to see us use it for other commercial uses or. | 01:18:23 | |
| That type of thing. | 01:18:27 | |
| For the setbacks are these, is this, is this unique? This seems pretty, you know, 5 feet setbacks and minimum setbacks between | 01:18:30 | |
| buildings it seems. | 01:18:34 | |
| Not very big in terms of a set back distance. Is this unique compared to two other districts we have? Yeah, I mean our residential | 01:18:40 | |
| districts have fairly large like 20 feet and then a lot of cases. So we have to, I don't, I don't have this pulled up but do you | 01:18:46 | |
| have this the setbacks for for this? | 01:18:51 | |
| It's the next one. How about that? OK, great. So we are, I think what's a bit unique about the site one is the easements across | 01:18:59 | |
| the properties. And so where are those easements exist in that sense where? | 01:19:06 | |
| Utilize that as as the set back so it's thirty across the front and 35 across the rear. | 01:19:13 | |
| So I mean and that's that's more generous than what you find in most commercial zones. Granted it is intended that the access way | 01:19:23 | |
| would would be utilized within that set back, the front set back with the the five feet when that cross access easement isn't | 01:19:30 | |
| there. Our thoughts and the justification for that is typically within that set back you have the sidewalk, you have the park | 01:19:37 | |
| strip, you have these other improvements however. | 01:19:44 | |
| Where you dot is going to be utilizing those in the right of way that in essence to be able to facilitate a. | 01:19:51 | |
| Larger buildings as well as creating that unique feel. | 01:20:00 | |
| I guess my concern is you look at what we have over by the theater right now and it's you go there on the weekend and it's so | 01:21:20 | |
| tight and congested still, even even with parking spots open, just driving through, trying to get around, you have to wait for a | 01:21:26 | |
| car to make a turn so you can then turn. And I want to make sure we account for that with with the density so residents don't | 01:21:32 | |
| immediately just start complaining of wow, it's so hard to drive around in this place and there's no room. | 01:21:38 | |
| And so, and I think one of the things to keep in mind that is a kind of a throwback or pulling in with with the mixed-use is the | 01:21:45 | |
| pedestrian accessibility is also key and vital. You know, the intent is that there are pedestrian access ways and pedestrian | 01:21:53 | |
| connections so that people don't have to drive. I mean, obviously if you're going to Jiffy Lube, you're going to bring your car. | 01:22:00 | |
| But as as restaurants come in, as offices come in, as other mixed uses, resident or retail uses come in. | 01:22:08 | |
| That the. | 01:22:16 | |
| You don't necessarily have to drive there because there are those pedestrian connections as well. | 01:22:17 | |
| Yeah, I I would. So I think on the setbacks on this conversation, I think that, um. | 01:22:24 | |
| I think if this is supposed to be a mixed-use district. | 01:22:30 | |
| I think it's OK if it's a little awkward to drive through and to get around and that hopefully it's the commercial that's there | 01:22:33 | |
| does. | 01:22:39 | |
| Create more pedestrian connections and for the people that are living in that district and that's the idea that can live there in | 01:22:44 | |
| a year point Bryce, you know this was supposed to be a mixed-use district all along. We have several residential developments that | 01:22:51 | |
| never did the commercial right And so now they're they got to walk to the commercial that's been built out in the yard so. | 01:22:58 | |
| So I I'm, I think the, the setbacks, you know, close the road, all of that's good. | 01:23:06 | |
| And and I I have a little little bit of a different perspective I think on the housing than than what Bryce and Tim have. | 01:23:13 | |
| I think if we are going to add more housing and more apartments, you know, more vertical housing, this is where we would want it | 01:23:21 | |
| to be. You know we're on Geneva Rd. We're on good access, you know, presumably good public transportation through there. We're | 01:23:29 | |
| adjacent to the commercial. So we, you know that's a place for that type of housing to be to support the commercial I think. | 01:23:38 | |
| I probably would have not recommended ever having a cap on the units in the the district altogether because I don't think that | 01:23:47 | |
| that I don't think that that actually regulates the quality. It as we've talked about it didn't there were there were developments | 01:23:55 | |
| that were done and it didn't actually weren't actually in alignment with the vision, the goals of the district to begin with. So | 01:24:03 | |
| we kind of got off this funny start with it anyway And so to me the the cap, the number of units is a little arbitrary. | 01:24:10 | |
| If if there's a development where it makes sense to have, where we can get the commercial that we need, but if we can still build | 01:24:18 | |
| housing units above it. | 01:24:23 | |
| I still feel really strong. We have a housing issue that needs where we need more of the housing as a region and I know we've had | 01:24:29 | |
| this conversation that vineyards done its fair share compared to most other towns and I would agree, but I also think housing in | 01:24:34 | |
| this location. | 01:24:39 | |
| We're not impacting traffic and any other neighborhoods. We're just providing more people to support the businesses, you know, in | 01:24:45 | |
| that area. So I don't mind housing as it relates to being close to the. | 01:24:51 | |
| To on the northern end, right and where people in those housing units can walk to the the commercial is just like in that the the | 01:24:58 | |
| development agreement that we did on the product around Topgolf where we're allowing more housing. So my personal stance is if | 01:25:05 | |
| we're going to do housing that's a good place to add housing. | 01:25:11 | |
| I I probably have more concerns about the auto oriented adding the auto oriented businesses in there. I get that Geneva roads a | 01:25:20 | |
| big road and and and but I think the car wash issue for me is particularly a really sensitive one to look into because I I know | 01:25:26 | |
| that the one in Orem by target. | 01:25:33 | |
| My sister used to live in that neighborhood and that woody wash car wash has like made it unlivable for some people in that | 01:25:41 | |
| neighborhood. So I get concerned about having a car wash is back. You know, back to. | 01:25:47 | |
| The existing residences and if there is any discussion of adding any more residential in this area I I that increases my concern | 01:25:55 | |
| of of like a car wash use just and because and the the complaint there is that the noise of the blowers as you're coming out of | 01:26:01 | |
| the car wash. | 01:26:06 | |
| And and it you know that people can't that live next to it. They can't go outside and have conversation outside their house. And I | 01:26:14 | |
| know that there's some setbacks and guidance in here. I don't without doing more research, I don't know if it's enough. | 01:26:20 | |
| To prevent some of those negative impacts from from a car wash, use UM. | 01:26:26 | |
| So that I think I have a little bit of concerns and I and I'm having a hard time envisioning mixed-use with auto. Some of the auto | 01:26:32 | |
| oriented uses that we've talked about. I can't think of examples in my head where I've seen an oil change you know establishment | 01:26:40 | |
| that's that's mixed-use, you know that's that's worked well with mixed-use. So I I'm stuck on that and then I I do agree you know | 01:26:48 | |
| we we could say from a city sample what we want commercial on offices there. | 01:26:56 | |
| The forge isn't developing right and and that's office, right and and so the the demand the market isn't there right now for the | 01:27:05 | |
| large office in this area. We'll talk about wanting hotel. We've talked about how we'd love to build a hotel. Hotels aren't | 01:27:10 | |
| building. They're not interested right now in developing and so I. | 01:27:15 | |
| Anyway, I think that was kind of my thoughts. I I'm still not 100% sold on this, on the auto oriented aspect of it. I still think | 01:27:23 | |
| I want to. | 01:27:28 | |
| To try to emphasize this, more of a mixed-use district, the walkable district, the more urban aspect. | 01:27:33 | |
| And and I'm personally OK with the idea of housing if it's proposed in the right parameters and we are getting the commercial uses | 01:27:42 | |
| and the housing is a bonus to it. It's not in place of I would strike out. | 01:27:48 | |
| The. | 01:27:55 | |
| Right in section B under 3 under residential intensity. | 01:27:56 | |
| I wouldn't. I don't. I I don't think we want anything where it standalone residential. If if we're getting commercial and there's | 01:28:01 | |
| some housing units above it, I'd entertain that, but not nothing standalone residential. | 01:28:06 | |
| I wanted to go off of that a little bit too, as far as adding mixed-use the residential. I do think that being on Geneva Rd. is | 01:28:14 | |
| the right place to have units, but I. | 01:28:21 | |
| And I don't have a problem with units. My problem is that this area, the whole area was sold and zoned was sold to Vineyard zoned | 01:28:28 | |
| as a mixed-use. So Vineyard was anticipating a certain amount of commercial to get some kind of tax dollars from I. | 01:28:38 | |
| Residential units do not bring tax dollars into the city and. | 01:28:48 | |
| So having this area, if we it was at least like something as far as commercial where we can get tax dollars. I agree that yeah, | 01:28:55 | |
| there could be mixed-use here, but there would have to be a heck of a lot of commercial for me to feel comfortable with that | 01:29:01 | |
| because this I feel like needs to be making up for everywhere else that screwed up. | 01:29:08 | |
| Because this was sold as a whole. And the last person that made this agreed to it. The the people that sold it to them agreed to | 01:29:16 | |
| it. The people who sold it to them agreed to it. And that's how it was done and that's how it was sold to the city. And that's how | 01:29:22 | |
| I think it should be. We need those tax dollars. We need commercial. While I agree that, yes, this would be a good place for | 01:29:28 | |
| residential, because if it's not impacting the most of the city, it's they're going to be getting off on Geneva and going their | 01:29:34 | |
| merry way, but. | 01:29:40 | |
| We need the tax dollars and the fact that there's nothing in the Vine, Lincoln Square, Concord, all of those areas, no tax dollars | 01:29:46 | |
| there. We need, we need that. And so if this had like huge commercial, like a ton of commercial bringing in a lot of tax dollars, | 01:29:52 | |
| yeah, I could see. I could see there being some residential above that. | 01:29:58 | |
| Yeah, just a thought. And did I agree a little bit more with Jeff? | 01:30:06 | |
| And a little bit between him and Bryce. So like a literally. | 01:30:12 | |
| OK, so. | 01:30:22 | |
| I agree absolutely. | 01:30:24 | |
| With striking out three B and residential incentive intensity, we shouldn't be having any standalone residential through there. | 01:30:27 | |
| Let's see. | 01:30:37 | |
| And uh. | 01:30:39 | |
| I actually lived in Edgewater, so this is. | 01:30:42 | |
| Very directly impacting me. | 01:30:45 | |
| Try to keep my opinions that way out of it as far as. | 01:30:48 | |
| Those northern lots and comfortable with the idea of residential above commercial. | 01:30:54 | |
| But I want. | 01:31:02 | |
| At 1966 feet is too high for that. | 01:31:06 | |
| That I think that would help with like not the height issue and overall intensity. | 01:31:53 | |
| Yeah. And I think that combined with. | 01:31:57 | |
| Perhaps, maybe number of units per? | 01:32:02 | |
| Building depending on size. | 01:32:05 | |
| That way, and that helped mitigate. | 01:32:08 | |
| Help mitigate parking issues, despite virtue of how big or small the apartments are, and also ensuring that. | 01:32:14 | |
| The commercial parking lot to be used for both which would be nice because then we're just doubling that up, which is I mean | 01:32:26 | |
| always my goal just to double up the residential and commercial use of this parking lot cause. | 01:32:32 | |
| But yeah, all those parking lots to the north of my neighborhood are just empty. And then everyone's parking in your dirt lots, | 01:32:39 | |
| and it's not a good deal for anybody. | 01:32:44 | |
| Yeah. And then ideally, 400 N is connected and we have a lot less traffic issues right there, but. | 01:32:53 | |
| Yeah, I don't super love the idea of a car wash right there. It's gonna be really loud. | 01:33:03 | |
| Even if we planted the biggest trees we could find, there would be years before that would block any sand. | 01:33:08 | |
| And there's a lot of people, right? There is there is there already a fence separating that? There is one of the big ones. | 01:33:14 | |
| Yeah, but it's not gonna. Yeah. I mean, in theory. I also have 4 kids and I'm not making any promises. | 01:33:25 | |
| OK. Yeah. Is that, is that something you guys can maybe address some of the the development standards you've been considering for, | 01:33:39 | |
| for the car wash? Because I think that placement of blowers, dryers that there's hours of operation, a lot of those things, if | 01:33:43 | |
| they're forced even could actually make it. So the two uses could be somewhat compatible. I don't know if you're prepared for | 01:33:47 | |
| that. | 01:33:52 | |
| Next one, so the car wash, so I mean these are some of the things that that we've identified that. | 01:33:59 | |
| There is a 50 foot set back from the property line when it's adjacent I. | 01:34:08 | |
| To a residential use, the outdoor vacuums are at least 25 feet. | 01:34:14 | |
| One of the things that I think our intent was but I as become this conversation has happened that the exit, the exit would be | 01:34:20 | |
| facing Geneva Rd. | 01:34:25 | |
| Blowers. The dryer. | 01:34:32 | |
| Yes. Yeah, that's one thing. But we also have noise ordinances as well, correct and so. | 01:34:34 | |
| Yeah. | 01:34:43 | |
| Those would be enforceable then we'd want to consider like these commercial units to the north like they're going to be getting | 01:34:45 | |
| that stand up there whether we would like to see maybe some restaurants it's an outdoor dining and it's that would make it | 01:34:52 | |
| untenable. So and I think it kind of goes to Jeff's comments of the auto oriented and and the mixed-use. You know the site really | 01:35:00 | |
| is unique and one of the challenges that we're trying to thread the needle on is providing. | 01:35:07 | |
| Commercially viable property for those autocentric uses which is very limited in Vineyard right now as well as trying to make up | 01:35:16 | |
| all the mixed-use commercial's. | 01:35:21 | |
| From the RMU and so really it's no small task. We are really trying to thread that needle and we we think it's possible. We think | 01:35:28 | |
| that what we've proposed here it is a bit unique to allow those more auto centric uses as well as the mixed-use uses. And you know | 01:35:36 | |
| maybe we could work on clarifying it as well. I know we've talked about before loss of the North and and maybe we could go back | 01:35:43 | |
| and look at some additional distinctions there but. | 01:35:51 | |
| I mean, the reality is that, you know, we feel that we can pull it off and we think that this is a a good place. | 01:35:59 | |
| For all of those uses. | 01:36:08 | |
| Yes, there's going to be challenges whatever the use might be, but we're we're hopeful that we can adopt standards that make it. | 01:36:11 | |
| Nice to drive by as well as nice to visit you guys to walk through and sit next to. So being a being a zoning text amendment, you | 01:36:25 | |
| are allowed to request things that help to inform your study. And so I'm sure there's a, there's a sound engineer out there that | 01:36:32 | |
| that you guys would be able to to contact and maybe have them look at because I I know you guys are working with someone but | 01:36:38 | |
| they'll be looking at that type of use, they're doing some sound studies and that that could potentially help employment like this | 01:36:45 | |
| type of conversation. | 01:36:51 | |
| I could do an informal one where I go walk around and see who can hear me because I have a very soft voice. So yeah, I mean, if | 01:36:59 | |
| they're if they're obeying our ordinances, as far as sound and stuff goes, I think we're good. And personally, I like car washes. | 01:37:05 | |
| They bring in a lot of tax dollars to the city. | 01:37:12 | |
| And I think Vineyard City needs one side. I don't think we should write off car washes, but we need to absolutely make sure that | 01:37:20 | |
| they meet. I mean, I'd love a car wash by the house, but maybe not by my house. Yeah. Well, if they're meeting the ordinances, you | 01:37:26 | |
| shouldn't notice that it's there. I mean, in theory, right? Yeah. I mean, but, I mean, that's why we have the ordinances. And as | 01:37:33 | |
| they're writing the orders, too, I think this is a good opportunity to say, well, you're saying blowers are 25 feet from the | 01:37:40 | |
| residential property line. | 01:37:46 | |
| There they put all the vacuums adjacent to to where some of the residents live and we just got to get really careful about that or | 01:38:26 | |
| it's going to be the next 20 years of receiving code complaints, right? Like, I kind of like, I kind of wish like the, you know. | 01:38:32 | |
| That could be something more. | 01:38:40 | |
| Where's the map? | 01:38:43 | |
| On Mill Rd. By the by the businesses. | 01:38:47 | |
| You know, Cornell Mill Rd. I think would make the most sense for car wash personally, far away from where everybody is living and | 01:38:50 | |
| sleeping and talking. | 01:38:55 | |
| There's similar kinds of noise concerns with the pneumatic wrenches that are used. They can get very loud as well, changing tires | 01:39:01 | |
| and that type of thing anyway. | 01:39:07 | |
| I would just be curious what our noise ordinance is and what the typical sound, you know? | 01:39:15 | |
| Output of a car wash is and see see how that tracks. Because maybe maybe all these car washes are in violation of stuffed | 01:39:22 | |
| ordinances in different towns. But because we want the tax dollars we want the businesses we I don't know I just know. I just know | 01:39:29 | |
| that one in in arms been a significant problem for that adjacent neighborhood and there it just. I was just looking at the parcel | 01:39:35 | |
| map it looks like it's. | 01:39:41 | |
| It's more than 50 feet away from the property line, but because the dryers face the houses, it's it's a significant problem. So I | 01:39:49 | |
| think if we can address that have the drivers on the other side, you know, I think. | 01:39:55 | |
| And can how it would fit in with our own decibel sound words. And I mean not all car washes have blowers too supersonic and Norm | 01:40:33 | |
| doesn't have blowers. | 01:40:37 | |
| So that's just true if it's designed right. I mean, we just need to make it say the right thing as to to make sure that it's | 01:40:42 | |
| designed right, if we want to have it right. And as far as like Jiffy Lube stuff, we just got to make sure that if they're close | 01:40:47 | |
| to residents. | 01:40:51 | |
| That they just need to be enclosed. It's as simple as that. They just not have open Bay stuff, but I think that it's definitely | 01:40:58 | |
| something that we could work work with. | 01:41:02 | |
| Yeah, I agree. I would maybe say too, going back on the housing element, I was reflecting on that last project that we reviewed. | 01:41:08 | |
| On the Northside of a 400 and and a lot of the the argument or not an argument but a lot of the the reason to. | 01:41:17 | |
| Entertain that housing component was because we were getting this big commercial. | 01:41:27 | |
| Not tenant. | 01:41:34 | |
| Draw with Top Golf. | 01:41:35 | |
| I think we would need that same incentive. | 01:41:39 | |
| Not, not another top golf, but you know. | 01:41:42 | |
| I think, I think I think it's going to be a similar criteria of if they're if we're meeting the, I'm glad that Bryce has made this | 01:41:47 | |
| point like the the the the main purpose and the thing that you know we really want to get out of this property is the commercial | 01:41:56 | |
| use. So if there's a way to to really demonstrate that that the city gets the commercial. | 01:42:04 | |
| Activity and gets the draw. | 01:42:13 | |
| And if that is met and not that, that's not. | 01:42:17 | |
| This little component of it to do a big housing project, we're getting a little corner coffee shop commercial use, but we're | 01:42:21 | |
| getting a a legitimate commercial draw out of the project. | 01:42:27 | |
| Then maybe there's there's room to look at the residential in addition to that. | 01:42:33 | |
| Is that fair to say, Bryce? | 01:42:39 | |
| Morgan would be possible at the next meeting if. | 01:42:43 | |
| To get some education what's happening on Geneva, I guess expansion and things like that. I I don't know anything about that. So | 01:42:47 | |
| it'd be beneficial going forward in these discussions to. | 01:42:53 | |
| Why don't I I'll deal with with the same and and we'll talk with our partners over at U dot if we could maybe we are doing a joint | 01:42:58 | |
| work session in June with the City Council and I'll send out send out the date I believe trying to remember the do you remember | 01:43:04 | |
| the date on that you know. | 01:43:10 | |
| But that that actually might might be a good one too because I think they'll want to to have a you know that kind of that that | 01:43:18 | |
| same work session. So and I've got to give you some time second week of June. | 01:43:23 | |
| Would that be OK? Now they get some time to prep. | 01:43:30 | |
| Absolutely. | 01:43:34 | |
| Anything else I can go back to the fire appliance model or did you, did you as applicants have anything else you wanted to touch | 01:43:38 | |
| on? No, I mean we really appreciate your comments and quite honestly, I think we tend to agree, you know, talking about the | 01:43:44 | |
| residential aspect even in the introduction as I went through in this last revision like you talk more about residential, they | 01:43:50 | |
| took it out, they modified it because recognizing that that's not not the driving factor here. And so I think, I mean I think | 01:43:56 | |
| we're on the same page. | 01:44:01 | |
| And mitigating the impacts on the residential neighborhood, we recognize that that that's a concern and want want to work on | 01:44:08 | |
| coming up with standards you know that we're comfortable with and that that are effective not just looking on paper. | 01:44:15 | |
| Who's actually building commercial and so I so in a way that that that that I think that that helped us with with the north of 400 | 01:44:26 | |
| N because they're they're they're legit they they say they're going to build something and they they build it. | 01:44:33 | |
| And so I I think there was just because of the history we've had with them and their pattern building commercial time and time | 01:44:41 | |
| again that we install it worked really well on that deal. So maybe, you know we explore something similar. Yeah, it was. It would | 01:44:47 | |
| be cool to not just have the forge to walk to from my house. I just. | 01:44:53 | |
| I wanna get out, you know, Just sounds like a thanks straw for hundreds of people just right there, right around the corner. | 01:45:00 | |
| You know, maybe someday. | 01:45:10 | |
| I think the only other thing that I haven't mentioned is we do allow, I want to make sure to point out that we do allow shared | 01:45:13 | |
| parking and anticipate that being a further conversation of of shared parking. | 01:45:20 | |
| So again, trying to be mindful of where we're at and the issues and constraints and coming up with a solution that that works for | 01:45:28 | |
| everyone. Cool. | 01:45:33 | |
| Thanks. | 01:45:40 | |
| Thanks guys. | 01:45:41 | |
| Right, thanks. And I don't know if you guys want to hang out for 10 minutes. The next presentation actually deals with Mill Rd. of | 01:45:43 | |
| 400 N and some of the conversations that we've had kind of on a periphery of that the the development agreement, but the BYU class | 01:45:49 | |
| put together not I'm not trying to steal your center, but put together really great class project. And Brian going to run through | 01:45:56 | |
| it just to show the the plantation you're a lot of leave, I'm just saying if you want to stay. | 01:46:02 | |
| Is Brian promising to keep you 10 minutes or is this? | 01:46:09 | |
| Maybe 15. | 01:46:14 | |
| Sorry. | 01:46:22 | |
| All right, Brian, my hair safe one, Yes spoke. We had. We invited BYU 510 geography classes, or Capstone class to work with us to | 01:46:24 | |
| collaborate with Vineyard City. We thought there's an existing need for roadway infrastructure improvements along 400 N and along | 01:46:34 | |
| Mill Rd. There's currently safety issues for pedestrians and cyclists and vehicles, accessibility and connectivity issues. | 01:46:44 | |
| That could be improved, a reduction in auto dependency. We could use more amenities and of course there's always room for more | 01:46:54 | |
| parking in Vineyard. So the two the BYU classified up into two groups, it was a Mill Rd. project and then there was a 400 N group | 01:47:00 | |
| project and then they both came together at the end of the semester and kind of provided A convinced comprehensive set of | 01:47:07 | |
| recommendations in a in a planning document. | 01:47:13 | |
| So just to give a little background, Vineyard as we know our population is growing immensely. By 2050, the Mountain Association of | 01:47:22 | |
| Governments anticipates that our population will double and that our employment base will quadruple by 2050. | 01:47:29 | |
| Currently along Mill Rd. there's less than 6000 trips per day, but by that time, by 2015 there's going to be anywhere between 6000 | 01:47:38 | |
| to 18,000 trips per day on Mill Rd. So lots more activity. | 01:47:43 | |
| But that being said, the current size of Mill Rd. which is 55, sorry, not 50 lanes, 5 lanes, 5 lanes exceeds the current and | 01:47:50 | |
| projected demand even though there there will be that amount of growth. So it's it's quite, I guess there's just a lot of space | 01:47:57 | |
| there. | 01:48:03 | |
| Umm, so future development, we have the UVU vineyard campus expansion going on, that's going to be, that's going to provide more | 01:48:11 | |
| educational facilities, offices and there's conversations about student housing. The Forge mixes development with which was just | 01:48:19 | |
| mentioned, more retail offices and essential The Yard A&B which is being currently being developed by 50 Mill LLC. The the | 01:48:26 | |
| applicants that just spoke, they're providing retail services, offices and added residential. | 01:48:34 | |
| And then there are upcoming transit connections along the road to the Front Runner station and to that transit. How that's coming | 01:48:43 | |
| in the near future? | 01:48:48 | |
| Here, the overarching goals of their project. I'm trying to speak as best to their project as I can. They want to improve West to | 01:48:55 | |
| east pressing connectivity. They want to balance the north to South multimodal transportation, and they want to provide pedestrian | 01:49:02 | |
| connectivity between all those developments that are in and around this part of Vineyard and leading to the downtown. | 01:49:10 | |
| So here the existing conditions on Mill Rd. the existing right of way is 98 feet five lanes. They're in some places there are no | 01:49:18 | |
| sidewalks and others there are but they they don't always connect. There's no crosswalks at the at the time and that's partially | 01:49:25 | |
| due because there's not a lot of land use activity on the on the West side of Mill Rd. | 01:49:32 | |
| There there is a bike lane on one side of the road, but it's it exhibits a low quality of service. It's probably like 3 feet wide | 01:49:40 | |
| and you're it's scary to to ride on there. | 01:49:46 | |
| Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. | 01:49:56 | |
| It's a crazy one. So in general it's it's unfavorable to pedestrians and to cyclists and in terms of vegetation there's very | 01:49:59 | |
| limited green space. | 01:50:04 | |
| These are their dining principles, some of the best practices that they wanted to encourage that would facilitate alternative | 01:50:10 | |
| modes of transportation. They suggested expanding sidewalks. | 01:50:15 | |
| Adding separated or protected bike lanes providing physical barriers between pedestrian, cyclists and vehicles. Safer | 01:50:21 | |
| intersections. | 01:50:25 | |
| Lowering the speed limits appropriately and a right sizing of no Rd. | 01:50:29 | |
| In general we they they think that we need to shift the focus from the current audio auto oriented design to more of the | 01:50:35 | |
| multimodal design and here are some of their concepts. This is a street section that shows a median. So a new design of Mill Rd. | 01:50:41 | |
| that includes A median with parking. | 01:50:47 | |
| And I'll give you a little more time to look at that. I just went through really quick. | 01:50:55 | |
| So this this design keeps two lanes in both directions but. | 01:51:00 | |
| It kind of plays around with with the widths of of each lane to be able to add a a median with vegetation in the middle and and A | 01:51:06 | |
| and a parking a lane of parking that's 8 foot wide along that medium. | 01:51:13 | |
| So here the some of the some things that some more things that are features. Separates the flows of traffic with the median. | 01:51:22 | |
| Retains 4 lanes of traffic. Provides on street parking as protected bike lanes expand some of the sidewalks provides landscaping | 01:51:29 | |
| and and St. trees reduces vehicular travel speeds and provides parking other twice. | 01:51:36 | |
| Here are some examples that they provided to go along with their design of of where it's been done in other places. | 01:51:45 | |
| And here's a local example. I believe there's images from Provo. Yeah, so this is Center St. on Provo. | 01:51:54 | |
| And as we all know, we all been there. So it's a great place. It's a very pedestrian friendly. Traffic is slowed down to 50 mph. | 01:52:01 | |
| That's not what they're recommending per se, but. | 01:52:06 | |
| Take Providing a more appropriate speed for safer conditions is what they're trying to get up. | 01:52:11 | |
| Here's a second design. It's a It's a road diet. So a road diet is when you take. | 01:52:20 | |
| Added or excessive amounts of lanes and retrofit them for another use, usually simply for for parking. But that added space that | 01:52:27 | |
| is gained can also be used for bike lanes, for wider sidewalks, for street trees, mediums, things like that. | 01:52:35 | |
| So this one uses. The unique features about this one is that it transforms the 2 outer traffic lanes into street parking. It | 01:52:43 | |
| provides one lane of traffic in both directions. | 01:52:49 | |
| 10 to 12 foot sidewalks on either side. It retains those protected bike lanes and provides that separation or those those physical | 01:52:56 | |
| barriers inserts those physical barriers between pedestrians and moving traffic and and as the parking. | 01:53:03 | |
| There's a SketchUp model that they worked on. This is I think it was pretty nicely done, just showing that there there can be gaps | 01:53:12 | |
| in the medians for for left turns or for turning around if necessary. | 01:53:19 | |
| This road design concept would also provide flashing beacons for pedestrians. | 01:53:29 | |
| No, that's still on the road. Yeah, that's still on the road. | 01:53:38 | |
| And in general, it provides more room for walking, cycling and the other elements that I mentioned. | 01:53:43 | |
| Intersection design was a big thing that we asked them, that we asked the students to highlight. So they thought that there is a | 01:53:52 | |
| need for an intersection, a more complete intersection somewhere between 400 N and Vineyard Connector. And they felt that the best | 01:53:59 | |
| placement for that intersection with those added treatments would be at E 650 N and Mill Rd. So that's the street just above the | 01:54:06 | |
| entrance into. | 01:54:13 | |
| Like where the Panda Express is. So it's kind of like that that middle section area between the interconnector and 400 N. | 01:54:20 | |
| They thought that that design, whatever it may be, should provide kind of a gateway entrance or gateway experience into not just | 01:54:28 | |
| vineyard, but into the area as a whole, as a shopping, as a regional shopping attraction and to UVU. | 01:54:35 | |
| Campus and their preferred design would be what's called a protected roundabout. | 01:54:44 | |
| Here's another SketchUp concept that they provided for us. | 01:54:51 | |
| And here's some. So this is an aerial and then the following image shows. | 01:54:56 | |
| Places where it's been adopted. So let's talk about the features of this design and why they felt this was important. | 01:55:03 | |
| It is protected, A protected dedicated track around the roundabout for cyclists. It clearly Marks and designates sidewalks. It | 01:55:12 | |
| provides space for vehicles that are waiting to get into into into the roundabout and also provide space for vehicle running to | 01:55:19 | |
| get out of the roundabout. So here's the image again. | 01:55:25 | |
| Visibility is a big feature of this roundabout. | 01:55:33 | |
| So you're you're always able to see pedestrians coming and cyclists coming, and vehicles that are approaching. It provides | 01:55:38 | |
| flashing beacons for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians each crosswalk I. | 01:55:43 | |
| OK. So moving on to the 400 N concepts. | 01:55:51 | |
| So they are looking at a total future residential unit count of 3175. And this image that's hard to see, it kind of shows the | 01:55:58 | |
| numbers. But this projection does not include the potential residential that UVU might provide is because I don't know, we don't | 01:56:06 | |
| know that even UVU knows what they're going to provide. So there's no way to account for that at the moment. | 01:56:13 | |
| They. | 01:56:22 | |
| They think that or they want to provide. | 01:56:25 | |
| These intersection treatments at in these areas, So at 400 sorry at Mill Rd. At 710 E and at Geneva and 400. | 01:56:28 | |
| As a side project, we didn't ask this from them. This kind of went outside of the scope of what we requested. | 01:56:40 | |
| They provided some recommendations for the trail that is along the east side of the railroad tracks that would connect all the way | 01:56:47 | |
| up to the front runner. So they recommended some improvements along there and their ideas are actually interesting. | 01:56:54 | |
| So here's some of the guiding principles for the for the group that did the 400 N project, they thought that our intersections and | 01:57:02 | |
| our infrastructure should foster a greater sense of identity. | 01:57:07 | |
| Greater sense of place. | 01:57:13 | |
| They should provide wider sidewalks. We should incorporate extended curbs to increase safety and to reduce car speeds, and also to | 01:57:16 | |
| limit the distance that people, pedestrians need to travel from one side of the street to the other. That we should use color and | 01:57:23 | |
| design elements to to inform how people use the infrastructure. | 01:57:30 | |
| And of course, enhance our green space to provide unique urban spaces, especially along the trails. So it's not always just about | 01:57:39 | |
| the destination that we're trying to get to, It's about having a fun and interesting walk or bicycle ride on the way to your | 01:57:45 | |
| destinations. | 01:57:51 | |
| Here's some one of the elements that they recommended is painted crossings and they're these can be there's a million ways to do | 01:57:58 | |
| these different cities do these differently but something that kind of highlights who we are our identity maybe even our history | 01:58:04 | |
| as we mentioned earlier and and this our our brand as as Vineyard. | 01:58:10 | |
| Here's some SketchUp models that they did. | 01:58:17 | |
| 1 of the recommendations was a pedestrian bridge over the railroad at 400 N That's an area that is lacking connectivity big time | 01:58:20 | |
| that that bifurcation that's caused by the by the railroad is is really accentuated in this region and having some way or form of | 01:58:28 | |
| getting from I guess West of the near to east vineyard would would be really good. And here's some branding that that could be | 01:58:35 | |
| done. | 01:58:43 | |
| Actually, can I make a comment on that? So apparently the the Alpine school district they discussed eliminating buses from. | 01:58:51 | |
| They are okay. So and that's something multiple residents actually asked me to bring up was the fact that individuals that live. | 01:59:02 | |
| Without having to walk on these other roads because I can't think of one parent that wants their kids walking on that Interchange | 01:59:41 | |
| Rd. So yeah, that's part of their safe route right now is your connector or the Center St. overpass. Yeah, I kindergartener. I | 01:59:46 | |
| can't imagine that, Yeah. | 01:59:52 | |
| There's a lot of reasons to want to make this connection, but I love it. Approved. Yeah. No, we loved it too. We loved it too. And | 01:59:59 | |
| that that that's a whole. And to do that right, we have to work with the railroad. | 02:00:05 | |
| Yeah, you should. | 02:00:19 | |
| They say that in the very least because right now we don't have anything that is a clear and permitted access way Their their | 02:00:21 | |
| thought was this is an alternative crossing that in the rallies has a little what we call this like a. | 02:00:29 | |
| Now the language here and I agree. Crossing yeah. | 02:00:37 | |
| Curiosity. | 02:00:42 | |
| OK, I was gonna say, like, what are the chances of getting in that grade? Because it's way easier to cross and actually people are | 02:00:44 | |
| only accurate, more likely to use it. Yeah, it'd be cool. Yeah, I think that's what they're going for is not a vehicular, but just | 02:00:49 | |
| a pedestrian. | 02:00:53 | |
| Parents volunteer across the garden. | 02:00:59 | |
| Yeah. | 02:01:04 | |
| So here's the part that they highlighted about the trail on the east side of the railroad. | 02:01:09 | |
| So, So what are my other pictures? I think I might have got my pictures romance up here. I know it's a little further on. Anyways, | 02:01:18 | |
| this slide and some of the other sides, we'll kind of highlight the the interesting things that you can see along the trail and | 02:01:25 | |
| what we'll we'll get to a little more of that later. Protecting intersections, the protection intersection is basically a design | 02:01:32 | |
| that incorporates like physical barriers between turning and moving vehicles. | 02:01:40 | |
| And and cyclists and pedestrians. It's designed to allow Panestians and cyclists to be seen by by moving vehicles and to have | 02:01:48 | |
| spaces actually within the roadway, but are safe spaces where they can basically have refuge and wait for safe opportunities to | 02:01:55 | |
| cross and have clear visibility. So I think that would be great if we, if we can incorporate some of these these elements, there's | 02:02:03 | |
| not just one single way to do a protected. | 02:02:10 | |
| Intersection. | 02:02:18 | |
| I think there's also Was it called a dedicated intersection that incorporates. | 02:02:19 | |
| Not as expensive elements like this because these are a lot of permanent infrastructural elements, but there are other things that | 02:02:25 | |
| we could do. | 02:02:29 | |
| With more movable objects that would provide a lot of the same features, but so there's there's options there. So I think the | 02:02:34 | |
| proposition was to do this at 400 and No Road and that 710 E. | 02:02:41 | |
| So here's a design concept from them for motor and 400. | 02:02:49 | |
| This is Edgewater Townhomes crossing over into the yard. | 02:02:55 | |
| This one is at 400, but they also provided a very similar thing at. | 02:03:03 | |
| At 4:00, at 7:10, I think they, I might have missed putting it in here, but it's the very same thing, yeah, that they wanted to do | 02:03:08 | |
| at 710 and 400. | 02:03:12 | |
| So this was another interesting feature of the project. So this, this is kind of a feature that would be incorporated in the yard. | 02:03:22 | |
| B, it's it's a walkway, it's like an interesting aesthetic Greenway that would go through the yard. B obviously would have would | 02:03:30 | |
| have a lot of conversations with the property owners who are in the room for something like this. But this is an idea that they | 02:03:37 | |
| that they came up with to provide greenery to provide. | 02:03:45 | |
| Easier access, safer access throughout the RB and to the Edgewater Townhomes. | 02:03:52 | |
| And of course they would have design elements that would make the rock interesting and fun to to experience. | 02:03:59 | |
| They would have elements such as this. These aren't the only things that you could do there, but they're fun and they they provide | 02:04:08 | |
| an interesting element, urban design element. | 02:04:13 | |
| Can we put those right outside about time? | 02:04:22 | |
| So. | 02:04:24 | |
| I don't see why not. | 02:04:26 | |
| Yeah, yeah. So it's just the concept of enhancing the the urban environment to be more welcoming and and safe. So here's the I | 02:04:30 | |
| didn't forget to include it. So this is the the treatment that they proposed at 710 and 400. | 02:04:37 | |
| It's another angle. | 02:04:46 | |
| So they finished their project by asking why we get her in design. Urban design catalyzes social cohesion. It provides positive | 02:04:48 | |
| interactions with the landscape and build social capital. It's critical to human health and it can increase our quality of life | 02:04:56 | |
| and give meaning and depth to our our social spaces. And it can provide activities and things for us to see along our our trips. | 02:05:03 | |
| There's a few other recommendations. Vineyard Transit Service expansion along the road. | 02:05:11 | |
| There will be bus stops. | 02:05:20 | |
| There's already a bus route now along the road and and stops along along that can increase. We can have a potential BLT system in | 02:05:21 | |
| the future along the road. So there will be an increased ridership with all the new development that is going on. And so we should | 02:05:28 | |
| begin to plan accordingly because transit will become an even more real realistic way of getting around in and in and out of | 02:05:35 | |
| vineyard. | 02:05:42 | |
| And then this one, This one was a great effect. This is more of a, you know, thinking pragmatically and thinking in public works | 02:05:52 | |
| worth his mind. Snow removal of separated bike lanes Of the separated bike lanes, The language should facilitate snow removal. | 02:05:59 | |
| There's a lot of different vehicles that can be used or retrofitted to allow for easier snow removal, and we should provide space | 02:06:06 | |
| outside of those lanes to store any of that snow. | 02:06:13 | |
| And then? | 02:06:21 | |
| They showed us a few of the of the machines of vehicles that Salt Lake City is using. These are called Kabuto vehicles. I've never | 02:06:22 | |
| heard of them. Here we go. | 02:06:29 | |
| And then I think this is the last one on street parking. | 02:06:37 | |
| The purpose of having on street parking is that it provides that physical barrier between cars and active transport. It can be | 02:06:42 | |
| used to slow the speed of moving vehicles and it will provide parking for the additional residential and commercial development | 02:06:49 | |
| and it can be used if we decide to. | 02:06:56 | |
| Charge for the parking at A at a fair market price. It can be the source of revenue for the city and. | 02:07:05 | |
| These are the amount of parking spaces that each of the projects were proposing along the road. So the median with the parking was | 02:07:13 | |
| proposing 75 new spaces, and then the road diet design was proposing 162 new spaces because it provided bike lanes not just down | 02:07:19 | |
| the middle of the road, but on both sides of the road. | 02:07:25 | |
| And then they went through a few zoning code changes. Basically what they're saying is that we should amend our RMU code to | 02:07:33 | |
| provide more open space and to reduce the parking requirements per per uses in within the RMU. | 02:07:41 | |
| So here's a summary of it all, and I think I'm done. | 02:07:51 | |
| They they did a really good project. They're really good to to work with. I think David Simpson was a really informed planner. | 02:07:55 | |
| He's been both practitioner and now a professor and we hope that we can continue working with them in the future because they | 02:08:00 | |
| provide really good insights and products so. | 02:08:05 | |
| So my question I guess is just. | 02:08:12 | |
| How come they're not presenting it to us? They're semester is over. | 02:08:16 | |
| Done on the 20th of April. And the reason I ask is I know that in the past these kind of studies have been presented before so. | 02:08:22 | |
| Yeah, they can know the Bike Advisory Commission and we were supposed to have them in the Planning Commission, the the, the week | 02:08:31 | |
| after, but we have to cancel the Planning Commission. So they weren't able to come. Got it? OK, Yeah. Just because in the future, | 02:08:37 | |
| I think it's it's fun having them here to present it. It's good. That's a good part of the experience for them too. So what if | 02:08:43 | |
| anything is already in the works for the 400 N Mill Rd. intersection? | 02:08:49 | |
| Because like, if if if someone lives in Lincoln Square and wanted to go to Panda Express with their five year old, they're going | 02:08:57 | |
| to hop in a car even though it's less than 1/4 mile away. So like, what? What's already in the plan, if anything? | 02:09:04 | |
| That seem so. OK so. | 02:09:13 | |
| OK. So the 400 N intersection on that we have on our capital project West in terms of to for study and and excuse me design and | 02:09:19 | |
| something funding in for potential or partial for a traffic traffic signal. So after the estimates crossings on there so we | 02:09:28 | |
| recognize that that Aaron Jackson specifically when 400 N connects into Geneva. | 02:09:37 | |
| Over here, very high volume type intersection. | 02:09:47 | |
| So I can't tell you the data when that would that would happen since it's all the continues on budgets as well. | 02:09:53 | |
| I think that would be a great communication piece to let people know on Facebook and stuff that this is already being talked about | 02:09:59 | |
| because a lot of people are concerned. So we've talked about how to get engagement, let people know what's happening, but we could | 02:10:05 | |
| be proactive there so they know this is. | 02:10:10 | |
| The priority. | 02:10:16 | |
| All right. | 02:10:22 | |
| Well, thank you, Brian. I guess we'll move on to item 5.4. | 02:10:25 | |
| Thank you. | 02:10:33 | |
| Site plan minor amendments. So Morgan, you'll be presenting on this again. One more another work session item. | 02:10:35 | |
| We have any requests for outdoor dining. The process right now requires going through the Planning Commission, getting the site | 02:10:49 | |
| plan, landscape plan, you know the elevations of those things that. | 02:10:55 | |
| And then they go before. | 02:11:02 | |
| For like two or three others. So Mr. here is showing downtime. They just added on and they're really nice and So what we require. | 02:11:10 | |
| So the process is basically to submit right now you go to ERC, we at staff level, we do a ton of just making sure like the make | 02:11:18 | |
| making sure that the sidewalk system is connected that they're not taking out parking, that they're not adding interior square | 02:11:25 | |
| footage. So like the like what we already doing with the DRC we feel like is is sufficient. | 02:11:33 | |
| A lot of cities take like a minor site plan and they allow those to be approved on administrative level. And so our suggestion is | 02:11:40 | |
| that if it's true minor they're adding seating, maybe some some fencing, they might do a roof extension, but they're not adding | 02:11:48 | |
| interior square footage. It does help the process to to split it off of what a standard site plan amendment is, which requires a | 02:11:55 | |
| high fee, requires coming through all this and if we did what's called a site plan minor application. | 02:12:02 | |
| We would have some criteria it would still provide the director of the ability to kick it back up to Planning Commission if it | 02:12:10 | |
| seemed more complex than what it is. But I think how we have a written is like under 2000 square feet can add the, you can't add | 02:12:16 | |
| interior square footage. You need to maintain ADA all the building standards. So we and the architecture needs to blend in with | 02:12:23 | |
| what's already in place. We feel like that that that would actually help with with several these people that are considered | 02:12:29 | |
| sitting there can make it. | 02:12:36 | |
| Just from a customer service standpoint really quick and it's something we could review most of that material just in house | 02:12:43 | |
| through through a building from that, but that's that's how staff and suggestion we know that does take away you know so some of | 02:12:49 | |
| these from your review. So it does kind of affect you but we want to know how if you're if you're okay with. | 02:12:55 | |
| Delegating that authority to staff to do the minors. | 02:13:02 | |
| 11 immediate thought I had is I mean anything that. | 02:13:07 | |
| Work, you know, more than once as an issue, then we could, you know, see if that's something that we needed to take back it. | 02:13:44 | |
| And stop being an administrative action and run it through the whole process. But I don't see any major pitfalls. I just think the | 02:13:52 | |
| awareness and accountability from just reporting out publicly would be helpful. | 02:13:58 | |
| For outdoors being like this, for the set back distance, are we measuring it from the structure or is it going to be from whatever | 02:14:05 | |
| the possible overhang is or fencing of the building? Yeah. So like in this type of situation, there's not the the only setbacks | 02:14:13 | |
| that apply to the RMU right now that that's the, this whole district that we've been looking at is off of the road type. So | 02:14:20 | |
| there's a local, a collector and a major arterial. And so I think it goes 25/20/15. | 02:14:28 | |
| You need against to, but right now the army doesn't have. | 02:15:10 | |
| Outside of like the street set back there's there's no like between setbacks other than what building code would afford like. | 02:15:12 | |
| Looking at this picture here, my only concern would be there is I can imagine if you had two wheelchairs going at the same time, | 02:15:17 | |
| it's going to be tough for them. So if we don't have just some sort of minimum, when you have groups of people, you're going to | 02:15:22 | |
| have a situation where somebody is going into the road. | 02:15:27 | |
| Like this. So just something I think we should keep in mind as we approve these that we can facilitate the travel of everybody. | 02:15:33 | |
| Fire sidewalks and. | 02:16:48 | |
| I assume that this one that you brought to us before that we talked about is one you would have brought to the Planning Commission | 02:16:50 | |
| or do you think that's one he would have just done the staff level? | 02:16:54 | |
| Because not much really changed but when we went to Planning Commission and we worked with them probably two or three meetings | 02:17:01 | |
| with the DRC and so we we've added really well just from like a staff standpoint. But yeah this is one we we would we would have | 02:17:06 | |
| felt comfortable doing through an administrative level. | 02:17:12 | |
| So we look at everything like the lighting, are you taking lighting off the building, you know is there any anything from ADA | 02:17:19 | |
| George went through this really carefully and made sure like that the 88 requirements, but there were some I remember on this one | 02:17:24 | |
| some judgment calls too like how far forward do you bring the? | 02:17:30 | |
| The fence versus like making a flush with the front. So I mean that's what we would be losing potentially is the input on that. | 02:17:37 | |
| Yeah, we're honestly just so you know, like we won't be upset if you don't feel. We just felt like we've received a lot of | 02:17:44 | |
| questions and there were concerns about having to do like a full process from the the applicant side. If you guys want, we can | 02:17:48 | |
| keep it the same. | 02:17:53 | |
| Applicant standpoint like I think that's that's important. I mean if people want to do business with the city, we want to be easy | 02:18:00 | |
| to work with, very clear and efficient. I think that's that's very important. So, so kind of with this one in particular, I | 02:18:05 | |
| remember going through this in the way I remember it is their original plan was to go all the way out to the street and that's how | 02:18:09 | |
| it was presented to us. | 02:18:14 | |
| So I think that maybe if there are some that are potentially blocking pedestrian access, maybe that's something that needs to come | 02:18:20 | |
| to the Planning Commission. But if it's something that's just like they're adding on, it's not affecting anything Like absolutely. | 02:18:27 | |
| Like, yeah, yeah, that would be good. | 02:18:34 | |
| Yeah, 'cause I mean if it's allowing for. | 02:18:44 | |
| 88 Requirements for pedestrians on sidewalks like. | 02:18:47 | |
| I'm all for outdoor seating. | 02:18:51 | |
| Yeah. And what triggered them having to go through the process was that the fencing altering the the sidewalk and the extension | 02:18:54 | |
| off the off the roof line. Well and there was a little unique compared to some of the other locations because they had to have | 02:19:00 | |
| more strict fencing and signage because of alcohol services versus some other locations. The other restaurants there they all want | 02:19:06 | |
| to do on the exact same thing as well. That's the other thing too is like what whatever precedent is that good or bad, I mean | 02:19:11 | |
| we'll see that. | 02:19:17 | |
| Yeah, you can't say no to me if you said yesterday. | 02:19:24 | |
| Well, and it's doing well too. I mean if you go that Thursday, Friday, Saturday night and then about time is pretty slammed and | 02:19:27 | |
| then all those restaurants are killing it right now. So I think where they can add capacity for more seating to help them, I think | 02:19:32 | |
| that's what we want to, I think it just activates that area so. | 02:19:37 | |
| It's way less loud than inside that place. | 02:19:45 | |
| I just can I can I add that? | 02:19:49 | |
| Unless it's done administration, I shouldn't say it that way. If it's done through Planning Commission, they have to provide a | 02:19:54 | |
| full site plan amendment application, which can can get expensive because they need to provide the site plan document, they need | 02:20:00 | |
| to provide elevations, they need to provide a landscaping document. If any of the landscaping is changing, yeah, that's that's | 02:20:05 | |
| what makes it difficult. And it's I guess it scared some people away that that we're coming forward with cool proposals that like | 02:20:11 | |
| this is too much and like. | 02:20:17 | |
| I don't know that it's worth it at that point, you know. So is there a way to address that? Is there a way that they can still | 02:20:23 | |
| have their proposal reviewed by the Planning Commission? | 02:20:28 | |
| With less deliverables required. | 02:20:33 | |
| Whatever, you guys, whatever. I guess if I go back what you're saying, Brian? | 02:20:39 | |
| If they do it at a staff level, they still have to produce some deliverable to communicate what their intent is to record that | 02:20:45 | |
| right, to have a paper trail of what they're proposing, what you're proving. So I don't think that whether we approve, whether we | 02:20:51 | |
| review it and approve it or you guys at the staff level. | 02:20:58 | |
| The deliverables should be the same. | 02:21:05 | |
| I the deliverables shouldn't be any more stringent to bring it to us and we can make the deliverables. So for maybe it's instead | 02:21:08 | |
| of just doing an administrative process, it's creating a minor site plan application. So there's like a category and then the | 02:21:15 | |
| requirements aren't the full set of like photometrics, you know? | 02:21:22 | |
| Yeah, it's civil engineers to to do it. | 02:21:30 | |
| Yeah, because whatever they would present to you to be able to review and approve it, I would think would be sufficient for the | 02:21:33 | |
| Commission to review and approve as well. And if they have to submit a a building permit work which coming off the the roof they | 02:21:40 | |
| have to submit some details. But what have decent plans, well, I guess so before all they're doing is adding tables. | 02:21:47 | |
| Like a like a survey. And then we asked them like like you know, customer service standpoint like was it, did you have the was an | 02:22:26 | |
| arduous process that take forever for staff nice to you. Like there's a lot of those kind of things. I never saw the results of | 02:22:33 | |
| it, but they they apparently went back and I think did some sort of a survey on. So it's like a full year. So there's probably | 02:22:40 | |
| some really great data out there, but I've never seen that. Well, the reason I ask is like sometimes it feels like we're asking. | 02:22:47 | |
| I'm making wait till after all the work sessions. Yeah, happy. | 02:23:30 | |
| That, that's all I had. I mean if you guys have any more comments where we're not like 100% on the administrative aspect, but I | 02:23:37 | |
| might kind of write it up both ways. But if anything we're going to look at adding the application minor site plan amendment and | 02:23:42 | |
| then maybe have, So we're still able to scrutinize it, but more watered down things that like you would get just through like a | 02:23:47 | |
| basic billing from an application. | 02:23:53 | |
| Sounds good. | 02:24:00 | |
| OK. Thanks. Any other, no other comments on that? OK. | 02:24:04 | |
| All right then let's move into Commission members reports and ex parte discussion disclosure. Does any do any of our. | 02:24:09 | |
| Commissioners have anything they wish to disclose on the bike commit committee. It's Bike Month right now. City's got a lot of | 02:24:18 | |
| different things going on and it all will all kind of culminate with the Vineyard days. Encouraged to bike there if you can. | 02:24:25 | |
| You'll probably get in and out a lot quicker than if you drive there, so it's a good incentive that way. But yeah, look for the | 02:24:32 | |
| social media posts on the remaining last couple weeks and the activities that are going on. | 02:24:38 | |
| We've been having meetings about the Central corridor plan, which is the wetlands essentially and we're just working on picking | 02:24:47 | |
| out. | 02:24:51 | |
| A consultant. | 02:24:57 | |
| To design that and that's going to be really cool. | 02:25:00 | |
| I have a couple things. One, we've talked with staff about the possibility whether. | 02:25:05 | |
| The development services is now located at the Utah Valley Home Builders Association building. There is a large room there that | 02:25:14 | |
| can accommodate more people. | 02:25:19 | |
| And there's a desire from staff standpoint to try one of our Planning Commission meetings over there to see how it would work. | 02:25:26 | |
| So that when we have occasionally we have an audience here, we have a hot topic and we do get people that come out. | 02:25:33 | |
| And so there there's a, there's a desire to do kind of a test run. And so I think, I think that would be. | 02:25:42 | |
| An important thing to do. | 02:25:49 | |
| We probably need to figure out the like audio, visual stuff before we did that. I don't know if we have adequate microphones and | 02:25:52 | |
| everything. | 02:25:55 | |
| And the recording software and all that, but we can look into it alright. Whenever you guys feel ready then I think be OK to to | 02:26:00 | |
| try that out. | 02:26:04 | |
| OK. | 02:26:11 | |
| The other thing I will disclose is that we are on a personal note we have our house is now on the market as of today. | 02:26:12 | |
| And so we are, we are taking steps to to be moving out of the community. So I will probably no longer be able to serve on the the | 02:26:24 | |
| Planning Commission. | 02:26:30 | |
| Much more than probably another meeting or two, depending on schedule this summer, but. | 02:26:37 | |
| So we'll need to. | 02:26:43 | |
| Pick a new Planning Commission chair and I don't know what that how that necessarily works but yeah, we can throw it on the next | 02:26:46 | |
| throw it on the next agenda. But just on a personal note, this being on the the Commission has been definitely the highlight for | 02:26:52 | |
| me living in this community and. | 02:26:58 | |
| So and and the hardest thing probably to to to leave so I've really enjoyed serving with all of you guys and it's it's I'm I'm | 02:27:06 | |
| still really excited about the the future of of Vineyard and. | 02:27:13 | |
| Maybe I'll, maybe I'll have to come back to our meetings, you know? | 02:27:20 | |
| Work on the other side of the podium a little bit. | 02:27:24 | |
| But but yeah so that's that's kind of me on a personal note one other little thing too that I wanted to share just I I needed to | 02:27:28 | |
| actually probably bring some some Flyers to city offices but our there's a there's a cool event happening in Spanish Fork this | 02:27:35 | |
| weekend So my my business were involved in a pro bono basis with the GAIL Halverson foundation. So GAIL Halverson the Candy bomber | 02:27:41 | |
| that in World War 2 dropped candy into Germany and. | 02:27:48 | |
| We work with a foundation for a long time that's it's been raising money to build a museum and a facility to honor GAIL and to | 02:27:56 | |
| inspire the next generation of of people to to have a spirit of service and and there's a aviation education component. So anyway | 02:28:03 | |
| they're having a big event on Saturday that's free to the public where they're going to have some cool airplanes. They're going to | 02:28:10 | |
| do a candy drop and try to educate the community about it so. | 02:28:17 | |
| And you know, you go, you might see me and. | 02:28:26 | |
| Seeing my friends there, but it's a cool event that they're trying to get some community support for, so I thought I'd share that | 02:28:29 | |
| as well. | 02:28:33 | |
| Spanish Fork Airport. | 02:28:37 | |
| No. | 02:28:41 | |
| Anyway. | 02:28:43 | |
| Those are all my disclosures today. Well, Jeff. | 02:28:44 | |
| That's Thanks man. You're leaving? | 02:28:49 | |
| I guarantee you are hard to replace. So you've done so much seriously from I did. I remember you coming in six years ago when I | 02:28:52 | |
| when I had, when we worked for the old building when I first started and you introduced you up to me and said I just want to | 02:28:58 | |
| volunteer. I want to you know put my my skills to to service for vendors and you've you've kept that up the whole time and really | 02:29:04 | |
| appreciate everything you've done. It's it's been a fun journey and to see the city develop with you you've been just a major | 02:29:09 | |
| component of that. | 02:29:15 | |
| Thank you someone else. You have to wear the Design Nerd Hat. | 02:29:22 | |
| Get the architecture license really quick. You got them off the requirement. | 02:29:26 | |
| Thanks. Yeah. Any other staff reports or things that not sure? | 02:29:37 | |
| So from the engineering just you may have seen that 800 N in your connector slash over Main Street has put up some traffic control | 02:29:42 | |
| devices contractors out there doing some work. | 02:29:49 | |
| Sorry. | 02:30:33 | |
| That science can disappear really fast. | 02:30:36 | |
| Now but. | 02:30:39 | |
| Heads up on that. So we're going to be attending a pre construction meeting on Friday morning with a contractor to kind of | 02:30:42 | |
| solidify that on the dates. Unfortunately that's a lot. You know the construction economy is good. Unfortunately it takes a little | 02:30:50 | |
| bit more pushing to get certain things done. For example, the signal material has to get powder coated before it gets installed | 02:30:58 | |
| and so forth. And so we're working diligently with those suppliers and so forth to move forward. | 02:31:05 | |
| You got has been very good about keeping the materials that we need. | 02:31:13 | |
| Set aside for us to get that going as well, the plan the and then we anticipate getting the front vineyard connector. | 02:31:17 | |
| Project. | 02:31:27 | |
| Moving forward probably mid late summer with the construction that goes out for construction bids and so forth. And then the | 02:31:29 | |
| problem not overpass over the vineyard connectors, we're working on some internal, some internal designs, some designs, excuse me, | 02:31:35 | |
| in order to come up with a Feng shui. | 02:31:41 | |
| Perfect medium in terms of. | 02:31:48 | |
| Size and usage of about also. | 02:31:53 | |
| The city of today we went into a pre construction inspection for the tank or a tank project for the storm water to ensure storm | 02:31:58 | |
| water our runoffs are being protected. So that being said you know the water tank qualities is moving forward. | 02:32:07 | |
| But also that the city is making sure that we take the proper precautions and saying that saying the standard in the bar to ensure | 02:32:17 | |
| that when we do projects, city projects that it's being done to the T in terms of following rules and regulations as well. The | 02:32:24 | |
| last last thing I want to say is we have a new face here in the audience 1 audience. So we have Emily the guitar though who's a | 02:32:31 | |
| new staff engineer she's she, this is her second week here with us at City Vineyard. She comes from BYU. She majors in civil | 02:32:38 | |
| engineering so. | 02:32:45 | |
| But we're not landscape architect. | 02:32:53 | |
| OK, there we go. But also majors she comes, she has families. Her father her her and her uncle are both civil engineers. So you | 02:32:56 | |
| even bigger bonus her her her interest really lies and lies in water resources and sustainability, environmental and environmental | 02:33:04 | |
| sciences and engineering as well. So really brings to the city a lot of great strengths to you know, kind of offset my destroy all | 02:33:12 | |
| the trees and pay everything concrete type mentality. | 02:33:20 | |
| That's that's what I'm here for. And we're glad she's here, yeah. | 02:33:28 | |
| OK. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? | 02:33:36 | |
| OK, and we are adjourned. | 02:33:39 | |
| Thank you. | 02:33:42 | |
| I always think he's a short agenda. | 02:33:45 |