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Event transcript
All right, welcome everybody. It is August 17th and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. It is 6:01 PM and we're 00:00:05
going to start, Chris is going to give us an. 00:00:10
It's are we gonna give up? Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give us a little inspirational lesson. Last time we did property rights. 00:00:18
Today we're gonna do records management and the importance of records management as part of our Planning Commission duties. So, so 00:00:23
on the Planning Commission. And this is part of what I do in my state work, but it's pertinent to all governments in the state of 00:00:28
Utah. 00:00:34
Accountability and transparency is imperative to everything we do. The public needs to know what are we doing, how are we coming 00:00:39
to the decisions we come to and ensure that there's not arbitrary and capricious decision making. We are very open with what we do 00:00:45
and, and also my Commission and employees here, the public reaches out all the time and asks us questions or makes comments or ask 00:00:51
for guidance. So when it comes to to record management, that's the core of it. That's how the public can hold us accountable by 00:00:57
submitting grammar requests. 00:01:03
In the state of Utah. So I was going to go ahead and just read quickly here of what is a record. 00:01:09
So a record, and this is from grandma, means a book, letter, document, paper, map, planned photograph, film, card, tape recording, 00:01:15
electronic data or other document, documentary material. Material, regardless of physical form or characteristic, that is 00:01:22
prepared, owned, received, or retained by a government entity or political subdivision, and where all the information in the 00:01:30
original is reproducible by photocopy or other mechanical or electronic means. 00:01:37
So here on the, on the Planning Commission and, and, and just local government in general, most of the data we deal with is, is 00:01:44
electronic and format. We get emails, we get communications. One thing that we need to keep in mind is we're not the records 00:01:50
officers of the city of Vineyard City likely has a chief administrator and, and some certified records officer that's gone through 00:01:56
the state records management certification and they make the determinations of what's a record. So it's important that we don't 00:02:02
delete. 00:02:08
Emails, we don't delete documents, we don't delete communications because it's all subject to grammar requests. One of the unique 00:02:14
things on the Commission here is we don't use a Vineyard e-mail address. We've created Vineyard ask e-mail addresses that are in 00:02:20
Grandma, but it's important that we properly maintain that and all the records in that too, because that is under the jurisdiction 00:02:26
of the city of Vineyard. How we set it up and any communications we get there, it's up to the records officer to determine what 00:02:32
should be deleted and what the. 00:02:38
Schedules are for that. So, so in essence, make sure we properly maintain records, that there's a history that can be properly 00:02:44
maintained and archived because while it may not have value now, we don't know if thirty, 4050 years from now, our decisions we 00:02:50
make today can have impacts on the property rights of those we serve. 00:02:55
Thank you. Should we have vineyards? 00:03:03
E-mail addresses like maybe that's a discussion. So I will say speaking professionally, because this is, this is what I do in my 00:03:07
work every day, the decisions that most of the communications we get are very basic. In general, they come from Vineyard City to 00:03:13
us. So they have a record already coming from the employees of what they've sent us. But if we do any communications between US 00:03:19
and others not in Vineyard City where they may automatically be archiving them, that's a valid question to raise if as long as 00:03:25
we're not. 00:03:31
Deleting emails, though, we, you know, Vineyard can get access to them, but we just make sure we're properly maintaining the 00:03:37
records that we have so, so the public can congratulate us and see what's doing. I believe so. What Pam did is she had us. 00:03:43
Give you guys all a Gmail right account and I think you guys all have the same password, but let's not say that. 00:03:50
Well, it's supposed to be wide open for everyone. And so that was the idea is that anything that's in there is supposed to be 00:04:00
super transparent. You're supposed to be able to, I don't know if you guys all have the same password or not, but but Pam is 00:04:06
supposed to like control that. So if she gets a grammar request, she can grab whatever is in that e-mail and just and just forward 00:04:12
it over. So I would say, especially with that e-mail, keep it very, you know, professional when you know, I'd keep your. 00:04:19
The private life stuff out of it. 00:04:26
I guess I have a question even though this is a thought. Do I save it for later? 00:04:29
Oh, no, we can. Yeah. This is all on the same line. OK. I'm just wondering, like, who is your e-mail provider service? 00:04:34
Who is that through? It's we're just running it through. Oh no, the the Planning Commission. So we yeah, city of Vineyard. 00:04:43
We use Outlook. We still have Outlook. Microsoft. We could consider having a shared mailbox for the Planning Commission. 00:04:52
And. 00:05:01
I shouldn't add money or require a life. This is something I can start a conversation with Pam or recorder and then see what, what 00:05:03
she'd like to do to proceed. I've, I've heard her say something along the lines of we should change how we do the e-mail system. 00:05:10
And so I'll, I'll reach out and hopefully be able to follow up with you guys next Planning Commission meeting. Yeah, I think 00:05:17
everyone had in the past emails through like the city outlook that gives like this official city e-mail. 00:05:24
But I, I can't remember, I think it like cost like some money and as we have so that's why she went to Gmail. 00:05:32
Yeah, Yeah. What I'm talking about wouldn't require a paid license or anything. So if you want to talk to me about that later, 00:05:39
please, please do. Yeah, cash if you could. You want to translate that over to Pam. 00:05:46
All right. And Tim would like to give an invocation as well. 00:05:55
Our Father in Heaven, we're thankful for this opportunity to be here tonight. We recognize with humility the responsibility placed 00:06:02
upon our shoulders and. 00:06:06
We pray that we will have thy direction and guidance and the decisions and conversations that we have tonight. We're grateful for 00:06:11
this community. 00:06:15
And for those who have come before that allow us to enjoy living here and working and and being involved in the commerce of the 00:06:19
community. We're grateful for all of those who have given so much over the years to help to provide the freedoms that we enjoy. We 00:06:25
pray that we will do all that we can within our parameters to be able to help to maintain those in this way. You humbly pray and 00:06:31
thank you for. 00:06:37
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Chris, for that thought. We're moving into an open session. If 00:06:44
you have any public comments you'd like to make, come to the. 00:06:49
Podium here. State your name. 00:06:56
My name is Tyler Hilton. I'm a resident in the. 00:07:04
I noticed I'm looking through some heritage. 00:07:08
I noticed that the notice drive here. 00:07:18
For more than settlers came in, they were not mentioned or not. 00:07:22
When they were, it was not always terribly favorably. I don't think they're a lot different since then, but as we're kind of 00:07:28
looking at heritage sites and preserving different buildings, the Timpanogos tribes so instant they're just. 00:07:34
I think it's Jane County now. I'm on the reservation so I would like to see more. 00:07:41
At least acknowledging and getting in contact with them, I know. 00:07:46
Agenda today, there are a couple mentions of working with BYU and working with UVU tickets and historical records and help us with 00:07:51
that for the heritage side of our planning and I would love to have that added on that list particularly as well. 00:07:58
Thanks. 00:08:06
All right, if there are no more public comments, we'll move into the minutes for review and approval. 00:08:10
So I have a motion on that. 00:08:16
Yeah, I'll make a motion. I make a motion to approve the minutes that were presented for April 20th and July 20th. 00:08:22
Do I have a second a second all in favor? Aye, All right. Moving into a business item top golf miner site plan application. 00:08:31
So that one we're just going to push into the applicant is here. They just kind of love the traffic. So we'll we'll go with 00:08:39
Naseems items. We will push that back on the agenda and move into public hearing the RDA sewer impact fee revision. Do I have a 00:08:47
motion to open up a public hearing second, all in favor, Aye, All right. 00:08:54
All right, you seeing endorse the engineer? Let me get my slides up. 00:09:05
Hopefully works great. It works. 00:09:10
So tonight we'll be talking about the Rdos. And just to kind of give you some background, typically this is not an. 00:09:12
That typically comes before Planning Commission when it comes to impact fees and other types of fees. However, after reading the 00:09:20
state, the state code with our city clerk Pam and going through it, it, it outlines that the process should follow a process very 00:09:29
similar to land use and with the city's process for land use having it. 00:09:37
Being a public hearing for the Planning Commission, we obviously want to air on the side caution and for. 00:09:47
And the spread of transparency here, we thought this is being brought to Planning Commission. With that being said that some of 00:09:55
the items I'll be presenting won't necessarily be specific to this particular particular agenda item, but it will be covering like 00:10:03
a more of a broadview of sewer impact using sewer impact fees altogether to provide the Planning Commission members. 00:10:12
And understanding of what we're doing and why we're doing it as well. 00:10:21
And by all means, if you do have questions during the during this presentation, feel free to ask. 00:10:30
So the RBAC revision? 00:10:37
So somewhere what's been presented is. 00:10:41
The sources and why it's important we'll be talking about the impact, what is the impact some one on ones about impact fee. The 00:10:45
then we'll go dive into the specifics of about about the sewer impact fee revision and of course talking as well as we'll talk 00:10:51
about the next steps. 00:10:57
And some pictures of. 00:11:03
Sewer for sellers. 00:11:07
So first of all, we're talking about why the steward system is important fast facts about venue. The venue has provides collection 00:11:09
services. So when we talk about sewer, there's there's the pipes in the ground that takes the saw waste from the house to a 00:11:19
treatment system system and those treatment systems for for veneer advanced treatment systems once TSST the temp. 00:11:28
Special Service District and then, of course, city. 00:11:39
The Albany city has three workstations, about approximately about 30 miles of sterilized plus or minus. And then the city's sewer 00:11:43
infrastructure is approximately 115 years old. And when you think about that for a city, that's typically where you go for a city. 00:11:53
On that so kind of diving deep into, you know, watch your why do why do we care about Sir? What's the you know, what's the 00:12:04
importance of sewer that's a type of as a as a alcohol a brilliant and upcoming. 00:12:11
You know, professional said that the sewer makes up 99% of the city and that 99% of the city is actually an invisible part of the 00:12:19
city and it can't be seen and this is a part of the city that's very important. With that being said, there's another video about 00:12:26
10 minutes long to present to you what you really guys deep into the importance of where it goes and the importance of it. 00:12:33
Come on. 00:12:47
Is 1858 the City of London has its way to scorching the cities two and a half million residents in the Thames River. 00:12:49
Let's try this again. 00:12:58
The centuries Londoners have disclosed their waist against the stick. Bad. That's really bad. What are those? 00:13:00
The wonderful habitat that your body provides, They're literally billions of microorganisms that include your waste making fun. 00:14:30
I'm sorry, but it was and your intentions are with huge bacterial colonies actually there that helps digest food. It depends on 00:14:43
substantially all healthy the viruses and bacteria. 00:14:50
So. 00:15:00
Focus on that matrix scene. 00:15:17
I I. 00:15:19
Right there by your own home. Even though many of us live in big cities, backyard subject systems are actually very common. As 00:17:38
many as 25% of people in North America depend on them to process their waste and distribute it into the ground. Scientists learned 00:17:44
long ago that the anaerobic digestion of students could be extremely effective in breaking down human waste and eliminating 00:17:50
pathogens. The word objective actually comes from the Latin word for the bacterial action. You know as ****** all the stuff that 00:17:55
goes down your toilet with wastewater. 00:18:01
Call Blackwater and all the stuff that goes down the drain. Your sink in your shower or grey water flows into that tank, which 00:18:08
usually holds about 4000 liters of liquid. And in the span of about two days, naturally occurring anaerobic bacteria get to work 00:18:14
reducing songs in the wastewater into liquids and a kind of greasy, fatty residue. The insoluble particles will sink to the bottom 00:18:20
and form the sludge, while the bats form a layer at the top of the tank. And yet I realize that I probably ruin your day at this 00:18:26
point, but within 48 hours? 00:18:31
From there it's on to the settling, AKA the grid chamber, which is where solids like sand and gravel and picked up along the way 00:19:38
settled to the pot. It's also one of these two early treatment stations where other flexibles are removed. And there are literally 00:19:44
tons of this stuff. According to one estimate of 50% of the so-called non dispersible material of wastewater is paper towels from 00:19:50
public restrooms, another 25% is nothing but baby wipes, and the remaining 25% is a mixture of condoms and cosmetic wites and 00:19:56
tampon. 00:20:02
And random thing that toddlers probably got their hands on. The process we're all done varies depending on the system, but usually 00:20:08
involves another mechanical stream or scammer. The real sugar begins at the next stage called the primary clarifier. This circular 00:20:14
basin slows down the sewage so that the heavier organic solids fall to the bottom of the bottom will be removed and transferred to 00:20:20
a digester, sludge press or drying bed, which will get 2. I promise back to the primary clarifier. Most facilities also use a 00:20:26
skimmer here to remove. 00:20:32
Foster and efficient environment for microorganisms that unlike those use the most septic systems, consume both organic matter and 00:21:09
oxygen. At this point the water is known as activated sludge and it looks like dark mud. It's rich with active bacteria and 00:21:16
percocol and then go into town on the oxygen rich water. From there the water heads to a secondary clarifier and yet another 00:21:23
segmentation based at one last time for a new leftover heading South to the bottom where it's pumps to the. 00:21:30
This leftover dry scrub is often used as fertilizer for agriculture or used to make compost mixtures that are sold commercially. 00:22:09
So again, yes, you may have used to very deluded iPod the human poop grows the veggies in your garden. We here's my show love 00:22:15
recycling how grow those columns are taken care of. We still have a bunch of wastewater leftover and now that needs to be 00:22:20
disinfected before being released into the wild. Also known as our drinking supply. There are a lot of ways to do this some 00:22:26
facilities. 00:22:32
Morning they're giving a harmful bacteria still left in the water flowing can be introduced as a gas or a salt. Either way, it 00:22:38
reacts with the water to form hypoflorous acid, which ultimately breaks down bacteria cell membrane and you're really effective. 00:22:44
But if you live in a town that gives a bit you know that it does not taste good at all. We're in also to be dangerous for 00:22:49
organisms in the rivers and streams that receive the wastewater, which is why some places now dechlorinate water after 00:22:55
chlorinating. 00:23:00
The water and natural wetlands where plants remove excess nutrients. So this is the end of the line. No matter what the 00:23:37
disinfectant process, the effluent will be released, usually influenced nearby river or Creek, ready for you to possibly drink 00:23:43
again someday. Your bamboo as Cubs boots circle. Thanks for watching this Sky show with Fusion, especially to our some of those 00:23:49
subscribers and learn how you can support us in exploringtheworld.com/scishow. And there's always don't forget to go to 00:23:54
youtube.com/show. 00:24:00
All right, So hopefully that video kind of gave you like a good summary of what the what's the source system is, the importance of 00:24:34
it and pretty much how that's how that's our daily lives. 00:24:40
Kind of really goes to show that they're like when it comes to this, obviously something really wants in your house and not 00:24:48
something you want to deal with. So I'm going to talking about what the impact is. 00:24:54
The sewer specifically when it comes to sewer, this is where it does. This is the thing that goes towards directly. 00:25:01
Applying towards towards this, for this particular one, applying towards the sewer systems and so forth. When we talk about 00:25:10
empathy, it really comes down to. 00:25:15
A lot of background information that's. 00:25:21
Comprises it with the entire visa and talks about, you know, goes into like the actual operations and systems, some historical 00:25:26
data, some projected data. 00:25:30
And data that's very unique to the actual city. 00:25:36
Let me see. 00:25:44
Hold on now. 00:25:55
Let me start this. 00:25:59
There we go all right, so this time we looked at empathy 101 is and this is taken from the from Utah, the office of property 00:26:05
rights, which is easily available online for the Planning Commission than anyone in general public. The highlight items are other 00:26:11
things keynotes. In fact, we at one time charge is to mitigate the impact to local infrastructure caused by new development 00:26:17
specifically for new development. 00:26:23
Is to maintain the same level the same level quality of public services for for our residents. 00:26:31
Don't have these to help fund expansion of public facilities necessary to accommodate a new growth and that's kind of emphasizing 00:26:37
new growth on that. 00:26:41
And then for a specific day in the state of Utah is governed by the Utah Utah code specifically impact the act, which is Chapter 00:26:47
11, Dash 36A. 00:26:53
Hypothesis are used for. 00:27:02
Troponin buildings and other physical facilities owned by the local government, that's specifically what the impact he has to be 00:27:04
used for. And then there are some examples that specifically just for the sort of examples of what the factories are used for. Is 00:27:10
there still types of documents? There's a lot of platforms, transportation, roads and factories. Some some municipalities have it 00:27:16
as a multimodal type of impact fee. And then there's there's still more impact fees. There's some some misfires have parking 00:27:22
*****. 00:27:28
Public safety Attack these public safety or specifically for police and fire facilities. 00:27:35
Additional for empathy, wake up to empathy, they can only be used for the facilities associated for their impact. So today we're 00:27:43
talking about the sewer empathy. The fees that are collected for sewer apocalypse cannot be used for other types of facilities. So 00:27:50
you can't collect for sewer and packing and use it towards. 00:27:56
Building a police station, for example, or or school. 00:28:04
For that case. 00:28:10
There are some crossover areas like for example, when you're building a new road, if you're building a new road, you're using 00:28:12
you're using Rd. impacts, but you're also using water impact to use and sewer impact fees because usually when you build 1 system, 00:28:17
you have other systems that are following where it is well. 00:28:22
Through a complex analysis, existing recursive existing levels of public services, future needs of the growth and anticipate cost 00:28:28
to maintain as well. So it's not just. 00:28:34
It's not just a single picture, a moment to picture capital facility facility plans, also called master plans and then they also 00:28:42
call infrastructure facility facility plans as well. They're they're kind of like the basis of how when you're, when you're 00:28:50
developing an impact to you and that those plans anticipate growth and demands created by new developments. 00:28:58
I guess I'm really what impacting this is we thought was done by the Utah League of Cities and Towns and this is a 2 minute video. 00:29:09
There you go. 00:29:23
What is an impact? 00:29:26
In Pakistan, these are a one time charge that the state legislature authorizes local governments to impose funds collected help 00:29:28
pay for the cost of infrastructure in new and growing communities. It's a way for cities to finance the expansion of public 00:29:36
facilities to accommodate growth. State law authorizes the fees only after the city first provides a detailed capital facilities 00:29:43
plan. That plan must include an analysis of existing facilities, including the. 00:29:51
Service providers and an assessment of future needs due to growth as well as the anticipated cost to maintain the existing levels 00:29:59
of service. 00:30:03
Impact fees are intended as a way to maintain the same level and quality of services for residents as the. 00:30:08
Community grows. 00:30:15
State law only allows some money collected tributes to be used on water, sewer and storm water facilities, roads, parks and 00:30:17
facilities for police and firefighters. The money collected through effectives must be spent within six years. In that fees are a 00:30:23
way to find a balance between existing and future residents in funding the new infrastructure their population growth 00:30:29
requirements. 00:30:36
State law also explains that impact fees are not intended to be used for operational expenses or to pay for capital improvements. 00:30:43
They cannot be used to raise the level of service in a public facility. They cannot include overhead or the cost for general 00:30:49
operations of existing service. 00:30:55
Without his taxes, the services of infrastructure that residents are used to will not be able to keep up with the growing demands 00:31:03
in our communities. 00:31:07
The full cost of growth caused by new referees would be paid for granted taxes of existing residents. 00:31:12
New residents who are creatively for new infrastructure and additional services should take an impact of the growth they caused. 00:31:19
Impact User intended to maintain the same level of service for all residents as growth occurs. 00:31:28
Alright. So I think with the big take away on that is that it's really used for the balance in order to provide some equity when 00:31:46
it comes down to when it comes to important new services being provided to the residents at home. 00:31:52
There we go. So kind of jumping into now the what with the regards to the what this with this presentation, what we're doing is 00:32:00
we're presenting a revision to the existing sewer impact fee for specifically for the RDA, the Redevelopment Agency area. 00:32:09
With this RDA in fact, either the basis of analysis was done by Mountain Land Association of Governments. 00:32:19
Association of governments in doubt 2000 2003 So they went and did a detailed analysis of with in regards to their needs and 00:32:29
demands and so forth for India. And of course it was done through a city analysis with its I I I FF community infrastructure 00:32:35
facilities. 00:32:40
Plan. Forgive me, I forgot what the second methods as well as an ordinance I was presented back in 2003 and approved by City 00:32:47
Council. 00:32:51
I was talking about the where, the where you see here based on the plan, the city is broken down into four different service 00:32:56
areas. You have the RDA which is in the north. Yeah, there is C, Area B and area A. The purpose is for breaking up impact these in 00:33:03
different areas so that a general sense is to agree what you want to do is when you want to provide services for an area. 00:33:10
An area where there might be some large growth, you go walking some undo burden on another area that may that may have had 00:33:19
experienced that growth that will not be experiencing that type of growth. 00:33:24
Typically miss powers break up things into service areas and then do an analysis based on those service areas. And so without 00:33:30
empathy we have 4 different types of service areas. 00:33:35
Being one of the more. 00:33:41
Original areas in the city having experience to grow up and then in DC and then area RDA, which is where we're specifically 00:33:45
talking about which has which is undergoing growth. 00:33:50
On the so when the typical when impacting analysis are being done. 00:33:57
A lot. 00:34:03
Typically done by three consultants press consultants actually look at what's your tenant what is the 10 year plan what's going on 00:34:06
in 10 years lovely and anyways that aren't going to be experiencing growth in about 10 years. Typically what they do in order so 00:34:13
they don't put down do an analysis of studies on an area that has that isn't projected for growth. They typically refer the impact 00:34:20
fee and now excuse me before that it put a recommendation before that empathy. 00:34:27
For multiple reasons. Another another thing that, excuse me, another type of implementation that you may see if more might be able 00:34:34
to speak on this. Because when you do overlays, where in fact the overlays where they do this when you might have a certain 00:34:42
servicer, but you want to focus it's over here on one area of that for to drive economic development or or anything else that the 00:34:49
City Council volunteer. Then then there would be like a a type of. 00:34:56
Really impacting the overlay area kind of help allowing the municipality to kind of do targeted growth or whatever you would like 00:35:04
to do on that. You'll find those in other types of cities. So we are, I came from, we had a few areas where we did overlay 00:35:11
corridors as well. 00:35:18
So in essence with the audio with coming up to project the growth where this presentation that folks to the public hearings to 00:35:26
take the RDA area service sewer service empathy for other from 1:00. 00:35:34
I'll send it to another fee and due to what the RDA has been projected, the growth have been projected where it was done, it was 00:35:43
set to 0. 00:35:47
Now coming back to the other way, as Simon, Simon Seneca says, always bring it back to the Y. So we're talking, we're, so we're 00:35:53
coming down to the Y. Why we do this? So here's some recent pictures of some new development that's been taken, development that 00:35:59
by no, no means cannot have been done or by all means could not have been done, excuse me, if it wasn't for some of our key 00:36:06
partners. 00:36:12
On there one being the two partners being the developer. 00:36:19
Utah Department Transportation and ETA to name to name a few. 00:36:24
So then for starts, development has begun to argue service area and there's a need to adjust the sewer impact fee from zero to 00:36:31
price $539 per era equivalent to presidential unit. This is for the specifically for the Venice Cities collection site as we 00:36:39
talked about the Venezuela's collection services. 00:36:48
TSSD as well as Om City provides. 00:36:57
Treatment services, so specifically in the RDA it's being served by the TSSD for treatment services. There is a what we call pass 00:37:00
through impact fee to to that area. 00:37:06
And that pastor's empathy is set by the TSSD and as in essence, given to us by the city. And then we just hand it over. 00:37:14
What the purpose of this is to find growth related infrastructure development, maintain the required level of service, and to 00:37:23
prevent existing users from subsidizing those costs. Very much in essence with the video. The previous video by Utah League of 00:37:28
Cities and Towns summarized. 00:37:33
This is a picture which is pretty truthful. It's, it's what we're doing now is how much. And then when what we need to do is we're 00:37:40
requesting, I was taking the dollar amount from zero to $539 per year. And then with when this will happen, this will happen 90 00:37:49
days after approval of the of the ordinance and the approval of the ordinance comes. 00:37:58
Should be effective on November 24th, 2022. Based on City Council. 00:38:07
So with another question, but I hear you definition is that that single family residence, does that also include accessory 00:38:14
dwellings or would there be just what was originally I was able to be a tricky question. So when it comes to the Adus on that 00:38:21
certain cities have maneuvered the Adu. 00:38:28
Based on Utah law in terms of that subsidies have imposed a impact fee, a one time impact fee for for Adus for connections like 00:38:37
for example they would they would require. 00:38:43
Excuse me I'm trying to remember what city but I believe it's Lehigh. If I'm not mistaken it requires an Adu has a separate water 00:38:51
meter. So because it has because it requires a separate water meter, it requires is a water meter impact fee to be paid due to 00:38:58
that. Currently the city of greener does not have any anything like that and you are used to it the same as a as far as if it was 00:39:05
part of the house. 00:39:13
And then is there a business impact fee? Yes, our business is paid the same impact fees like your presidency. So ERU in essence 00:39:21
equivalent residential unit, it takes a baseline away. Equivalent residential unit would be a single family house would be that it 00:39:28
would be equivalent to residential units and would increase or decrease depending on the type of use based on the based on single 00:39:34
family house, there's different, there's different. 00:39:41
Methods and models in order to do it. Currently we're having our water master plan is being conducted by Hanson Allen Loose. 00:39:48
And. 00:39:56
When it comes to the equivalent residential units, in my experience there are water master plan times. That's the basis of where 00:39:58
we're going residential yet is for that city, the city I came from and as well some other cities around Utah uses equivalent 00:40:05
residential unit. There's a single family house which which utilizes a three quarter inch water meter. So if it's a single family 00:40:13
house using A1 inch water meter, it's greater than one ERU. If it happens to use less than a three quarter inch water meter, it's. 00:40:20
Less than one year, even though it's a single family house, the same as and maybe as its neighbor, but they, they see some, some 00:40:28
places see that say as a fair way of doing it. So business that would tie in if that person uses a three quarter inch meter, they 00:40:36
pay their impact water. I'm sorry, the same as a as a single family resident, they'll have different entities for. 00:40:45
For transportation, they have different properties for. 00:40:54
Maybe schools like a businessman play their schools and for they to put their own paycheck or a single family house with payschool 00:40:59
empathy's for that. 00:41:04
Thank you. OK. 00:41:09
So in summer with the next, the next step on this would be to let the staff recommend approval of the ordinance that's been 00:41:15
presented setting the sewer package from one $0.00 to $539 per era. And the next step after and then after this go to City Council 00:41:23
to determine exactly what rate to collect. 00:41:30
And that rate could be 0% up to 100%. 00:41:37
As far as the other districts go, what are what's the impact fee for AB and CI believe for? 00:41:42
This is on top of my head I didn't come prepared for that. I believe is over $1000 three RU which and then P is slightly more than 00:41:51
that and then C and RDA is the lowest in. 00:41:59
Yeah. And just to also one other point, the city is is going to be undergoing a sewer master plan this fiscal year. So with that 00:42:08
sewer master plan being complete being done, the there will be another the FAA and the sewer master plan, they'll present another 00:42:16
revision for the impact fees as well. And that impact fees, with that impact fee revision, we'll be looking at revising the path 00:42:23
fees throughout the whole city, not just for. 00:42:31
11 area. 00:42:39
Now theme, how are these seeds collected? That is who actually pays them and how are they paid? And then what is the pass through 00:42:41
rate you can have information on? 00:42:47
These are applied at the time of a building permit, so when a building permit submitted to the billing department. 00:42:54
After the after review and so forth, party point building permit for certain fees had to be paid, inspection fees, application 00:43:02
fees, and then one of the fees is impact. These impact fees are assessed at the time. And then when the impact fees are and then 00:43:09
based on the assessment of the impact fees, they're applied as part of the building permits of the applicant before they're 00:43:15
allowed to build a building permit, they they pay down, they pay that in taxi at that time. 00:43:22
So basically the the developer builder pays the fee, but we assume that's passed on to the future purchaser of the property in 00:43:30
somewhere, right? 00:43:34
I mean, we're not actually knowing what their business practice would be. I would say in general sense the answer is yes, but 00:43:39
that's the general sense to answer nowadays specific answer to new builder. 00:43:44
And the pass through, the pass through Rd. service. So for example, TSSD has a impact fee that they that they charge because it's 00:43:49
because they provide treatment services arms, so they provide services as well those those pass through fees. And what we call 00:43:56
pass through is that NS as the city is not charging any additional cost on top of that. So for example, the city's portion of the 00:44:03
impact fee for Syria is the same for. 00:44:10
Sick of Argument $539. 00:44:18
TSST says we'll, we'll provide that and we'll have an assessment. We have a charge for an assessment. And then they, there's, 00:44:21
there's a separate currently regardless of the size and then, but there's the, they'll have that, that rate will be passed to the. 00:44:31
Permit applicant collected by the city. The city takes that dollar amount and gives it directly to TSSD. 00:44:42
To us and the empathies are used for extension of their facility. So TSSDS will take that dollar amount and it has the same 00:44:51
restrictions as. 00:44:55
Based on the Utah impact that they have to spend that for expansions or you know, for their services within that six year period 00:45:02
as well. So there's no direct cost to the homeowner. 00:45:08
Through the the past SE that's all done up front, everything done up front, yeah. So I mean I can't tell you whether it cost to 00:45:14
the homeowners are because it's all based on business practices for that particular that particular person. 00:45:21
Thank you. 00:45:28
I have another question on this, just to make sure I understand. So for the impact be if you're a developer, you're building a new 00:45:30
facility that requires extension of the sewer system to that facility. So they would cover the cost for the extension of that 00:45:37
system in addition to the impact fee crack. So this doesn't actually provide any actual build out services to service. So there's 00:45:45
a that's where you're getting some Gray areas like for example, there's times when you do what do you call it empathy credits for. 00:45:52
So for example, like every builder is required to build above and beyond what they're required to build, what they would need to 00:46:00
build in order to provide services to them. Then you get into negotiations and industrial development agreement typically. 00:46:07
Credit, that's a mechanism. So that's often done in times of pioneering. So developers say, you know, I want to do that, you know, 00:46:17
but I have to do, I have to do a lot more than what I need to in order to provide service for myself. What they'll do is they'll 00:46:23
pioneer the services. 00:46:29
For that and then there were the OT is a receive credits on that the city has a few agreements where there's been pioneer 00:46:36
pioneering has been done in order to provide services for a piece of property that's. 00:46:43
Like 3 miles away from the TSST they go and they, you know, do an agreement with the municipality. They would provide all those 00:46:52
costs upfront and then enter into agreement with advanced power to receive credits over a duration of time. 00:47:00
But then that's one mechanism. A city for example may choose just to pay the developer outright, or the city may chooses to 00:47:08
develop themselves. Again, I can give you examples from where I've been in the past, where my my past we developed a built 00:47:16
Expressway and we have 5 lane, the five lane A5 lane Rd. 00:47:23
That served their development that also served the surrounding cities at the specific city in the county and was actually and then 00:47:31
with that entertain agreement with the municipalities and in order to collect fees, productions of fees. So in essence, every time 00:47:39
they pulled a residential permit that they would get, they would get a reduction of that would be assessed. That department would 00:47:46
be assessed of that and then it'd be reduced. But they're the key portion of that is. 00:47:54
The fees have to be applied to what it's used for, so for example that the very developer, not the road. 00:48:01
Water, the water lines and sewer lines and suit lines. So the only areas that get impacted grass is from those three services. 00:48:09
They cannot get a reduction in impact fees from school impact because that was not specific to what they were doing. And that 00:48:16
developer, another example is I've, I've worked in Texas where the developer would build a fire station because they're developing 00:48:24
increase the needs for fire services. 00:48:31
To the developer provides property in both the fire station with that they got they received credits from the city in terms of the 00:48:39
public safety reductions during that time. So every time they were building programming, it's a win win scenario. But in essence, 00:48:47
there are short answers. The developers acting like a a bank to the to the municipality that they provide them a loan. 00:48:55
Thank you. 00:49:05
So I know we have a public hearing that we'll get to because there's probably some comments, but I did have a few questions and a 00:49:06
couple of points I wanted to make. One is this is an RDA area. 00:49:11
In some sense this seems odd to increase a fee in the same area that we're investing in or trying to incentivize folks to develop 00:49:16
in. I don't necessarily, I mean, Morgan, welcome to jumping on that. I just wanted to call that out that it. 00:49:23
Person in order to for economic development purposes, then that that that other body will pay for it. 00:50:01
It, this is the way I look, the kind of way I look at it is it's kind of like it's a legal way of kind of swapping money around. 00:50:12
But in essence, it's important in order to keep it for accounting purposes. 00:50:17
And yeah, Morgan, I'd love your take 'cause I can't imagine this helps economic development in that area. 00:50:24
Yeah, yeah. But it's it is pretty important that we be able to have the the fees to be able to to cover the cost of their 00:50:31
structure. I mean, and we're looking at at economic development once it is kind of interesting kind of going along the the kind of 00:50:38
the the road that you're you're going down. Is that Albuquerque, I knew Arthur C Nelson at the University of Utah, he's a 00:50:45
professor. So a lot of impact fee analysis and part of what. 00:50:52
Did is they set up their impact fees to, to, to kind of help drive the development within their downtown core. And what they 00:51:00
looked at is, you know, they had aging infrastructure, but upgrading it and using because it's a long time cost to build some of 00:51:08
the new infrastructure because there was already infrastructure in place. They were able to reduce the impact fees quite a bit 00:51:15
because they wanted to push development within the the core as opposed to building out on the fridge. 00:51:23
Often called leapfrog development, where you're having to extend infrastructure really far. 00:51:30
Even past like fields and vacant land to the development that's further out on the fringe. And so they were able to utilize their, 00:51:38
their impact fees to try and kind of drive the the development or towards the downtown. But, but overall, I agree with Nissim's 00:51:45
take on his recommendation. Yeah, yeah. And then also like at my previous point about overlays, for example, I cannot like 00:51:51
economic development zones that some cities do. 00:51:58
And they provide that incentives for specifically for those overlays. Typically what they'll do is they'll have like, for example, 00:52:05
transportation. My, my most of my experience has been transportation. In fact, the portion of us where they'll do like a, if it's 00:52:12
a certain type of business building a certain type of zone, then they'll provide like a 75% credit towards that business. But in 00:52:20
essence, what happens is that the economic Development Fund or the general fund or however they have it set up. 00:52:27
Pays that interest and that actually pays that in tax fee for that developer, for that specific type of developer. So the impact 00:52:35
feed fund stays whole, stays the same. It's not collecting less money, it's collecting the money. It's collecting the money it's 00:52:41
supposed to collect. But it it's all a matter of who's paying it because that's enforcing when it comes down to financial physical 00:52:47
responsibility and transparency. 00:52:53
I was going to say another thing to you and I, Brian May touch on this in his presentation is the state does provide the allowance 00:53:00
to. 00:53:04
To waive impact fees for affordable housing and things like that that. 00:53:08
When the development communities is undertaking those types of those types of developments and projects, the your, you know, 00:53:14
profit is usually pretty thin. And so it provides kind of an additional set of to to try and kick off some, some of those projects 00:53:20
because I mean, yeah, you're essentially raising the price of the end product of right, right. And so and, and usually they pull 00:53:26
from a lot of buckets and we're playing their tax credits and those kind of things they're able to find, you know, profit that 00:53:32
that makes sense to, to, to. 00:53:38
Go forward with the project. So we that might be something we'd look at in the future. OK. And then this last point that I wanna 00:53:45
make is the thing that would make me the most uncomfortable is if there were already projects or plans underway. 00:53:51
Under, under the previous, I guess the current impact fee that would then be impacted by this. I know it's proposed 90 days out, 00:53:58
but you know, I'm just thinking like if I had bought a piece of land under certain assumptions and then, you know, there, there 00:54:04
was a change. 00:54:09
Yeah, Yeah, that would that would be difficult. I think that. 00:54:18
You know, maybe everything moving forward, you know, new land owners or when it changes ownership be applied. I'm not sure if 00:54:21
there's precedent for that, but if there's projects underway that had already planned for the current impact fee, just curious how 00:54:27
we'd handle that. Yeah. So typically again, that's why you have the when you have the nine day window on that and that's why it 00:54:33
goes through the goes through this public hearing and the process as well. 00:54:39
On in regards to that at the end of the day. 00:54:46
It just comes down to as people are paying their fair share. 00:54:50
In regards to development and then this way any any kind of agreements that like a one off agreement said that this probably may 00:54:53
choose to make to any kind of accommodations is, you know, it's being done mainly for at the best interest of the best interest of 00:55:01
that area of city. And then the impact fee fund is that it's still collecting the money. But in essence it doesn't matter. 00:55:09
Who? Who's paying their impact? Excuse me, who's paying their impact fee fund? What's important is their impact fee funds being 00:55:19
paid into. 00:55:21
Because of the day it's even when you wave like my last to get my husband's power, I would have my same as your waves and at the 00:55:24
end of each quarter I would give him a bill of how much he waived and how much money he owed me. 00:55:33
From his from where he wants to pay me from because my Apaches had to be paid because there was a state law. 00:55:41
Yeah. And then the last, the last thing I just want to make clear for the public is the Planning Commission can only make a 00:55:47
recommendation to the City Council and the City Council will ultimately decide what happens with this. Just want to clarify that. 00:55:54
And with that, if there's any public comments, welcome to come up to the podium. State your name and. 00:56:01
Yeah. 00:56:08
I have a question about. 00:56:19
Was there a capitalist plan? 00:56:25
Down for. 00:56:30
So that's the answer. OK, so I'll make sure. So just answer your question. So in regards to the facilities plan on that, what what 00:56:35
was done was that the the Service plan that was taken was the existing facilities plan that was in place. There's there's 00:56:43
currently a massive funded for a master plan for a new one. This this particular empathy specific has been ascertained through 00:56:50
historical documents that was. 00:56:58
I would say it was left behind in order to ensure that he was being taken and then applying and then applying it towards. 00:57:07
Should be our actual wish of that what should have happened on that. So the facility is not a master plan is being done through a 00:57:18
particular third party is Evolver. I believe they have a sewer master plan in regards to that whether with that developer is doing 00:57:25
on that is pioneering, pioneering specifically for the soybean pioneering sewer. 00:57:32
Portion of the of the of the facilities plan specifically for the idea on that and then. 00:57:40
My current understanding is that the current developer who's doing the pioneering is a majority stakeholder of of of this area as 00:57:48
well. So again, to answer your question, a lot of this information is historical. Like you said it was shown in 2003 was when the 00:57:54
last official analysis was done and then the facilities plan are taken from there was stopped and over the last one being from 00:58:00
2017, Sir. 00:58:07
My concern is that. 00:58:15
The argument was created basically for all of the mail site. 00:58:17
Three different categories for infrastructure for. 00:58:24
Community development and also for rehabilitation of the ground and. 00:58:28
A lot of the infrastructure that's already in place in the RDA was. 00:58:36
Built with our RDA fund. 00:58:40
And and so. 00:58:44
You're putting an impact fee on top of the RDA area. 00:58:46
Another $539 for one. 00:58:52
I'm sorry. 00:58:57
So just to kind of explain how impact these work, again, it is what the impact has been done is it's actually a planted impacting 00:58:59
and we have a discussion in regards to the bank accounts portion of it. So with the with RBA being set up in order to fund 00:59:07
development, to fund certain developments in essence with Rbas acting as a developer or like a developer developer slash owner 00:59:14
into this and executing it. So in essence at the end of the day, we don't. 00:59:21
Assessment reviews will be assessed the way they're supposed to be and then working with our the finance, the finance department 00:59:29
to overseas all the impact fee funds and how they're applied and how they're credited will make the determination of who's 00:59:36
actually like which fund is actually paying for it. For example, if the RDA is providing hazard agreements in order to pay for 00:59:43
development of certain types of infrastructure on that and the and with developer X. 00:59:50
One, but the society developer Y there we go. The developer Y, What time is there? 00:59:59
Then that agreement that's a separate agreement that's being done. The impact fee itself is totally separate from that type of 01:00:08
agreement. And then we will see that the RDA would be paying into the RDA would actually be paying, paying into that development 01:00:14
fee fund for for set developer that they may have an agreement with. Morgan was talking about the excuse me, Brian was talking 01:00:19
about the. 01:00:25
Antarctica's for low, low low cost housing for low low income housing. Excuse me and you know those incentives are coming through 01:00:31
grants, federal grants and so forth. Those entities are still assessed and then you'll find that those federal grants will be 01:00:37
could be paid could be paying into into those impact fees themselves since they're validating for the impact fees. You may you may 01:00:43
we may find that the federal grants are paid to those empathies and there's a private let's just say there's a large private 01:00:49
donation from. 01:00:55
And awesome person who's very gracious that that and then building all those things that private person could pay for. So 01:01:02
therefore the RDA technically doesn't have to pay for everything. Everybody comes down to the mechanism of how you want to fund 01:01:08
things to be paying towards that. The fact that this is just establishing an impact impacting to this area is is important and is 01:01:15
kind of kind of establishes that this area requires funding. 01:01:22
Because it comes down to the point where the the. 01:01:30
There's no more available funding, I'll say like after one to the third type of means of method or means of payment that there is 01:01:35
an impact the established N for those funds for those for that to be funded through without a without a taxi as if you have a 0 01:01:42
tax fee. Hypothetically the RDA decide to close doors tomorrow. Any developer coming in would be paying $0.00 in fact fees and 01:01:49
their local municipality would be on the hook for all future for all those impacts there. 01:01:56
What you're saying is that that. 01:02:03
The money that's being passed for here would impact the. 01:02:07
Is for all new projects in the RDA area. So I understand what the money was being asked for the for the impact is on there is for 01:02:12
projects in the RDA area that's that's been outlined in the capital facilities plan that data back and maybe 2017 if I'm mistaken 01:02:21
or 2013 and when and how those things are being paid for is. 01:02:30
So that it's a separate agreement between. 01:02:39
RDA and set type of developer. 01:02:42
And with a new impact, we're a new server master plan coming out this fiscal year with the debt outlines, the new capital 01:02:45
facilities plan that will outline a new facility fees, not just for this prayer, but for the city and the whole which will 01:02:51
actually put a lot better equity towards all residents and all businesses alike. So. 01:02:57
It's done. 01:03:05
Hutchinson I understood to be the black girl so. 01:03:12
We own a lot of the ground, as everybody knows in the RDA area. I think we're pretty comfortable the way things have been working, 01:03:16
where we come in with plans. We work really closely with engineering and planning on. 01:03:22
What sewer facilities, what water facilities need to be constructive. So with the development that that we're proposing will work. 01:03:30
And that's worked pretty well to this point. I think like the J line that goes all the way down the lake, all of the lift stations 01:03:38
have been paid for by the RDA. Everything in the site, all the steward in the site has been paid for by the RDA. We have 01:03:45
reimbursing agreement. So we're funding all of that. So we're essentially paying this fee now and then if we create the taxable 01:03:52
value in the RDA to pay that back, that's how we get reimbursed and so. 01:04:00
Getting all this infrastructure to this point for free based on us. 01:04:08
You know, putting it all in and then hurrying and trying to create the taxable value to do it. And I think that's worked pretty 01:04:14
well to this point. So I think we just want to go on record, not against the team because we really like the team and Morgan and 01:04:19
everybody, but. 01:04:24
We don't think this is necessary right now. If there does come a point where there are additional things that need to be done that 01:04:30
the RJ is not willing to pay for, we can have this discussion. But I I just don't see any capital facilities that need to be done 01:04:35
right now. 01:04:40
For Stewart, and we're talking millions of dollars like, you know. 01:04:46
$539 per unit doesn't sound like all that much, but just the buildings that we're proposing tonight, that's $200,000 per day. 01:04:50
We'll just. 01:04:54
One building that we haven't been planning on and we really want to take all the dollars we can and used to go to go vertical and 01:04:58
put in the park and everything else. So this is just one more thing and of course we have to pass it like. 01:05:04
You know, I mean TSV is a couple $1000, not like they're a couple $100, but every time we're paying PSD and we're paying for all 01:05:11
the infrastructure that the RGA has been reimbursing. Like Don said, that was one of the main reasons that he already is the state 01:05:15
set that up was to. 01:05:20
Project so that the old Geneva site would actually be developed. The same for the RDA. 01:05:26
None of this development would have ever occurred. And so it is, we feel like this is a really slippery slope too. When you start, 01:05:31
you start layering on impact fees and it really just closed out the there's one of the, one of the, one of the. 01:05:37
The reasons why the RDA is there so the development will actually occur and will occur faster than it does in other places, so. 01:05:44
Just wanted to get down. 01:05:51
Thanks. Missing you had said if we pass this today it goes to the council then who votes? But then they actually this essentially 01:05:54
putting a arrow in the quiver so they could use it but they may they may not actually get applied or they would set a percentage 01:06:00
of it to actually collect or this would be collected every time. 01:06:06
They would like to, they choose to, they choose to go with in regards to collecting any kind of fee on that. So and that's why I 01:06:16
put down the determine the right to collect 0 percent or the maximum percentage. 01:06:21
On that kind of talking. 01:06:27
So yeah, city count, excuse me, City Council may choose go with or without any kind of recommendations in order for this. 01:06:31
I guess I use it with the past example that. 01:06:39
In the city that my last city, you know, we went from. 01:06:43
Kind of just like renewed everyone from a population about 15,015 thousand to 85,000 people in like 5 years. 01:06:49
And at the 30 square miles with the full code out of over 100 square miles on that. And then in terms of that, for example, 01:07:00
without transportation, they actually have applied a 90% reduction on transportation impact fees across the board and approving 01:07:06
them. 01:07:12
In the long run, because then they found that they actually didn't have money in order to pay for transportation projects and 01:07:19
you're not just for future transportation project or transportation projects that they had that had done. So they had, so they had 01:07:26
gone and they had to have loans and so forth. So part like so part of this impacting collection is actually would be paying for 01:07:34
back floors and infrastructure improvements that had been done that's that directly impacts the RDA area. 01:07:41
For example, there's a major sewer pipeline that that's that goes through the RDA that provides services directly with the TSST 01:07:49
that was constructed that the city is paying for. 01:07:55
It's still, it's still, it's still paying for and that was done through any reimbursement agreement with another with with a 01:08:03
development. So that, that that would be an impact. 01:08:07
And then so money collected for the advert from this and from all up from other residents would go towards paying back those those 01:08:12
types of capital projects as well. 01:08:17
So, so there is a need now to collect these fees to ensure there's not a disproportionate impact on existing Citizens Council. You 01:08:23
know, as I once said, engineers don't allow engineers on file fees if they're not required, Sir. And that's sensible. And even as 01:08:32
an engineer, if I saw if there was a fee that did not have to be so I would still go through the. 01:08:40
Mechanisms of determining whether the types of visa should be collected and then. 01:08:50
City Council has with the power can apply 100% discount on a fee and say the fee is the fee is set, the fee stands. We understand 01:08:55
there's a there's a fee, but we're applying 100% discount in order for whatever reason at their discretion. So in essence what 01:09:03
this is doing is taking that, taking that principle, applying, applying it forward. 01:09:12
By the year later since I've been here and allowing City Council to make that make those determinations at their discretion of how 01:09:22
they must see economic development. 01:09:27
Pushing forward, but in short, but this fee does it sets the sets the baseline of what something should be. For example, my 01:09:34
transportation impact fees at bylaw city was always a dollar amount. The fact that I was always collecting 75% of it or whatever 01:09:40
percent of it didn't change. I was, but it was always set at the dollar amount that was supposed to be set up, that was set out. 01:09:47
So therefore any kind of adjustments to that I go I would go back to City Council. 01:09:54
Every year, actually, I went back to City Council for all my impact fees. 01:10:02
We review the impact fees of once a year and we will go through to State Council review the impact fees with them. They would get 01:10:07
the health of the budget from from finance department. They would get the health of the budget and set and then determine how they 01:10:14
would like to set forth the impact fees for the for that next year, whether it was reduction, no change or increase. 01:10:20
But they cannot increase it more than the Max dollar amount that was present, that was set and established. So again, this is 01:10:27
establishing yet 539 as a maximum dollar amount. So, So technically City Council cannot say we want to do $800 per SE. 01:10:36
Does that answer your question? So now seeing the the last bullet there says 0% to the maximum 539, so the 539 is established by 01:10:47
state legislature. 01:10:53
Going through going through the 2003, the 2003 Association of Governments modeling analysis and then the last capital facilities 01:11:01
plan that was kind of put together. 01:11:08
As well as determining you know the 530 and I would be the one that would that was based on engineers. 01:11:16
Engineers. 01:11:27
Recommendation to be the suitable for that area as well. So again this is State Council could say we would like to charge 1%. 01:11:29
$539 or they may choose to charge 100% of it. So it's a percent of the 539. That's the base from which the percentage derived, 01:11:37
correct? 01:11:43
That's what City Council, this is the State Council's discussion, Sir. Yes, Sir. So they could say we're going to, we want to set 01:11:49
impact fees at 10% of 539. That's correct. OK. 01:11:55
So. 01:12:06
Kind of from my understanding it sounds like it's taking like power away from the RDA and putting it into the hands of the City 01:12:09
Council, which is weird to me. 01:12:14
Ashley Ignite and you have a good point there and I made a spoken several times. So it's the RDA board who makes that 01:12:19
recommendation. 01:12:23
If I'm on a second. 01:12:29
I know that's. 01:12:32
I would be Darth Vader, that's got that. So, yeah. So OK. 01:12:34
Yeah, City Council, Yeah, yeah, minus I got the State Council. Yeah, too many house, too many same people. My, my last city, the 01:12:40
the CR, the CRA board was actually different people. They had a couple of State House members, but actually had different other 01:12:47
people in there too. Easier to easier to remember what he was dealing with. OK. 01:12:54
Correct. But now, so in essence, RDA will be presented, this RDA boy will make the recommendation and the City Council makes final 01:13:02
determination. So that's correct. 01:13:06
OK. So he's saying that the impact fees are essentially being paid by them because they're putting in the infrastructure and stuff 01:13:12
that currently the city's not seeing an impact. Is that the case or are we, is this just that we're planning on seeing future 01:13:19
impact that the Rdas not covering? I'm just trying to kind of wrap my head. So again, what you do is when you set the impact, the 01:13:26
surprise and then it kind of. 01:13:33
Down to like reimbursement agreements or set forth. So if a contractor comes in pioneer or something, that contractor doing the 01:13:41
pioneering can realize 100% reimbursement of all the work that they're doing through. 01:13:48
OK, so is that not already what the RDA is doing currently? 01:13:57
$0.00 So if there's so for example, let's just say hypothetically 1 developer comes in does something and then sells a property 01:14:02
off to someone else and that develop and the first developer collects the funding for the for, for that, for that work being done, 01:14:10
developer 2 comes in and pull applies the billing permit and so forth. 01:14:17
And then they're they're they're realizing some impacts the city were not that if it went when it's set to 0, the city will not be 01:14:26
able to find itself getting reimbursed, reimbursing itself for that development that's being done. Again, there's a there's a 01:14:32
there's a state statues and ways to house house done. We work closely with the finance department and ensure that it's been done 01:14:39
correctly because the finance department at the end of the day is the one that ensures that is. 01:14:45
The keeper of the money in terms of that, but it's, it's, it's a way to in essence ensure that the fee hasn't been set at a 01:14:52
dollar, at a dollar amount, however. 01:14:57
However, the. 01:15:02
To the city and that developers agreement between the two plays out that that if there's another party that comes in for saying 01:15:06
that the that that any other parties does not get the get the benefit from a from an agreement between one party between two other 01:15:16
parties without that without the city choosing to do so. So this provides the city great discretion in order to how to apply. 01:15:26
Its incentives. So is the city putting in the infrastructure right now or is there a developer currently? 01:15:36
So if the so if the developer were to sell it, I mean, the developer already paid for it, so the city wouldn't. I mean, I don't 01:15:42
see how so with this. Again, I'm an expert this and again, this is about when it comes to legal language things. Developers can 01:15:48
choose yourself something and then sell. Typically when they sell, sell something, they'll sell fully developed and they'll sell 01:15:55
with, they'll sell with. 01:16:02
With that type of investment center, so the developer. 01:16:09
If they put pioneers something got $0.00 of reimbursement they make you do sell sell out property and then then the person paying 01:16:13
for their property would be paying for a higher dollar amount. 01:16:19
To that person to, to that state, but then again, if they that developer pioneers something with the city and so forth and then 01:16:25
having a set and reimbursed, having a set to 0 prevents the city from being able to kind of collect payments for something that 01:16:33
they've invested the money in. So this in essence, the city is acting as an investor as part of the developer, which is obviously 01:16:40
a very good thing because it helps both parties and the residents itself, but by having a set to a dollar. 01:16:47
Amount whatever dollar amount above $0.00 allows the city and mechanism in order to enforce its ability to collect for 01:16:55
improvements that are going to be done or have been done to due to the new growth or. 01:17:03
OK, that sounds like. So in essence, having set to 0 allows for. 01:17:14
Ties the city's hands from being able to do anything other than giving you away the the that that improvements for free and 01:17:20
without any realization for being able to collect. But the but as I understand, the city hasn't paid for any of the improvements 01:17:26
to this point, right? Let's see again with the running through the audio, the developer does improvements and then submissive 01:17:32
reimbursement through the RVA. 01:17:38
On that and then again, it comes down to what I like to say the smart bean counters who kind of shuffled the beans around and put 01:17:46
the and then ensures that the the right, the right pocket pays bill. For example, you have it where the reimburses the developer 01:17:54
and then, but there's a fee for like within the Rdas like hey. 01:18:02
This is a impact fee credit type thing where the city could be paying our year. At the end of the day, you might not see physical 01:18:12
money from moving from pocket to pocket, but it's all it's all done on paper. But it's important that that the finance 01:18:17
department's able to balance these books. 01:18:22
And have it to have the ability to say this is the value of what was being done, even if no physical cash is being transferred 01:18:28
across the room. 01:18:32
Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. 01:18:38
Yeah, hasn't been closed yet. So I think, I think the main point, especially on the travel center area, you might spin back to the 01:18:41
map, you know that there's no. 01:18:45
So the Town Center area there, which is just left at where it says area RDA, we already have reimbursed in place currently with 01:18:50
the RDA for sewer infrastructure. 01:18:56
Where you know that we're paying for it, we'll get paid back at some point if we build buildings that pay property tax that pays 01:19:03
back. So I think our concern is and. 01:19:08
There are a lot of smart beam counters out there are concerned with this would be if we're already paying one being. 01:19:15
For it and it's supposed to get paid that back and now we're paying another fee at. 01:19:21
When we go to submit for permit now we pay 2 beans and. 01:19:27
We're paying for it twice essentially. We've already paid for it all. The city hasn't paid for any of it. It's not at risk. Now if 01:19:33
there's other areas that don't have those agreements in the team saying well maybe if the city like the RDA went under or 01:19:39
whatever, then the city and some other areas may be responsible for that. We're saying we own most of this area. We're comfortable 01:19:45
with that risk and we're going to have to work together if we get to that point. If there is no impact being we own the property, 01:19:51
we'll have to put an infrastructure. 01:19:57
We can't just come to the city and say you need to pay for all this stuff. 01:20:03
In the other areas, but specifically for this area, the main thing area where we're going, we don't think there's a need for an 01:20:07
impact fee because we already are comfortable with the reimbursement agreement the way it works with the Army. So just wanted to 01:20:14
put one more thing on the record and I'll chat with that. Very good. Thanks. 01:20:20
Any other questions or well I just wanted to make a comment so based on what I've heard. 01:20:29
And I hope I'm not misinterpreting anything. The actual impact fee itself may not be a sticking point. However, we would need to 01:20:35
make sure that no impact fees are assessed if there's an existing RDA agreement in place. 01:20:41
It's that's. 01:20:50
Kind of my previous point was that those are exactly what's what happened is if there's a are the agreements and I see this in 01:20:54
general sense, but in essence place for developer for something with what's going on is that the impact is. 01:21:02
May be paid for by the idea, for example. So again. 01:21:12
In the last day of the city, it's like, yeah, so the example I gave us for my previously were with the way to impact these for 01:21:20
schools. Like it seemed like every time my school was being built, it was magic wand it was raved. Hence I think that's why the 01:21:26
city had the most schools per per student for some reason. 01:21:32
But. 01:21:40
The impact fees are being were being waived for the schools. However, the schools had The schools were not exempt. The public 01:21:42
schools were not. They're not exempt from paying impact fees. 01:21:47
So. 01:21:52
Since there was a serious choice, as you can see his leadership choice to waive and impact me, the empathy still had to be paid 01:21:55
for. Therefore this city. So therefore it whether came out there cities general fund, it came from Alpha Economic Development Fund 01:22:00
or whatever different fund the city, the city's leadership had set aside that that impact. It had to be the money had to be paid 01:22:06
for into that impact fee. 01:22:12
On that, I mean, there's that one thing I agree about in factory forgiveness, et cetera, et cetera. It's all based on the state, 01:22:19
state laws, et cetera, but. 01:22:25
For example, the public schools weren't paying taxes for their few schools. However, the city paid the impact fees for them. That 01:22:30
impact fee has still had to be paid because it's not the IT wasn't the city. It's not the city's managers fund or whoever's fund, 01:22:37
is it? That's the city's residence fund. 01:22:43
Yeah. 01:22:55
Would be and I appreciate the work that you go through to determine how to make this city viable long term so that you guys aren't 01:22:59
stuck with some. 01:23:03
Massive surprise later and I really do understand and appreciate that. Just wondering if there is a need to have a representative 01:23:08
of the art from the RDA here to make some comments or if there is some type of study approaching meaning of tax increment 01:23:15
available or projected available and this is or was created the RDA for so far. So this is not a very easy, it's not a softball 01:23:23
development location based off of previous use that was here based off of other. 01:23:30
Circumstances with relations either your. 01:23:39
You're locked within the lake and I-15 it and then full development combined with new development and different changes of uses 01:23:41
and more modern type development and and a growth of. 01:23:47
Residential needs and and affordable housing needs along with I think maybe the city attorney would probably need to weigh in on a 01:23:52
few things would be there have been some changes from the state legislature side with some bills as to what RDA funds and how that 01:23:59
process works to to use or to capture a or some type of tax increment in the future. 01:24:06
That would be my only question is how does the RDA actually? 01:24:14
Continue to do the job that has been done previously here so that there is an incentive needed in this town, for this city, in 01:24:20
this location to develop and there is a need to incentivize and attract. 01:24:27
Tenants, users, developers to put infrastructure in and and some of those rules that that process have changed recently. And I 01:24:35
think Jamie could could weigh in on that and maybe the RDA could actually explore a little bit better. 01:24:42
What this would impact her, if it's even possible area to continue to participate in certain high areas of development with the 01:24:50
testing in the future? 01:24:54
No, thank you very much for those points. Yeah, for sure that that information has been provided to Jamie, the city attorney as 01:25:02
well as the finance director who's acting who's over over the RDA as well for. 01:25:10
Prior for review as well. So and then this will be taken to like we discussed this will be taken to the RDA board for for 01:25:18
presentation for recommendation approval so that I'll be able to be able to review and they haven't said before it goes to City 01:25:22
Council for final action. 01:25:27
But no, thank you very much for those points. 01:25:33
Yes, yes. 01:25:38
All right. Any other public comments? 01:25:41
Any other questions? 01:25:46
Yes, we have, you have different options. I mean, obviously the recommendation of approval or denial or of if you needed more 01:25:48
information. Ultimately what they seem is really hammered is getting to, you know, getting to the City Council level there you're 01:25:55
going to have the RDA representative, you'll have the city attorney, city manager. And so, you know, some of those points are up 01:26:02
tonight. That's kind of what the purpose of the public hearing is, is to bring up points that need to be further. 01:26:08
You know, dive into. 01:26:16
And so that that's the opportunity to do it there or if, if you so choose, you may also request that to happen that that, that, 01:26:17
that this level that's that's up to you. 01:26:22
OK. 01:26:28
I have a motion to at least close the pedal carrying. I move to close the public hearing. I have a second. 01:26:33
One second all in favor, aye? 01:26:40
Alright, does anybody want to make a motion? 01:26:44
So before I would make a motion or anything I think. 01:26:48
Where I'm coming from, it's not necessarily a recommendation of what's existing there. I think it's more review this with the lens 01:26:52
of. 01:26:56
Finding a way to make sure that we're not. 01:27:02
Causing undue burden on existing land owners where there's already agreements in place and then ensuring that. 01:27:05
This aligns with the city needs financially long term, but that it's done in, in the, in the most simple manner that's transparent 01:27:14
to all land owners and future land owners. That's my key concern with this because every, every, you know, there's, there's impact 01:27:21
fees in every other location that that's expected, right? But in a, in an area like this with the RDAI just want to make sure that 01:27:28
it's very clear where the RDA will step in. 01:27:34
Where they won't and so. 01:27:42
I think the easiest thing to incentivize strong economic development is being predictable and easy to work with. If there's a 01:27:44
moving target all over it, it makes it very difficult to do short and long range planning on both sides. So that that would be my 01:27:50
input for the City Council. 01:27:56
Yeah. And and my issue is if a developer is putting in all the infrastructure themselves, then then I have a hard time seeing the 01:28:03
point and having an impact fee for them particularly. But for those that are coming in after the fact, then that's where I see it. 01:28:11
Like that makes sense. 01:28:19
So I. 01:28:29
Like for the downtown development in particular when they're putting in the infrastructure. 01:28:30
Dennis. 01:28:36
Well, they could still be reimbursed if they're paying. 01:28:38
I don't see the point of. 01:28:41
The impact, see if they're the ones right, if they're building out the infrastructure and then they're also submitting a building 01:28:43
permit for. 01:28:47
What they intend to build next to the infrastructure they put in it, it wouldn't make sense to have them pay for something that's 01:28:53
already been paid for, like the impact has already been paid for, you know, in that in that respect. 01:29:01
At the same time, I like have, I like giving the city the ability to negotiate with future developers because we don't want to 01:29:12
again be stuck between a rock and a hard place and have no negotiation abilities. 01:29:19
We've seen how that has impacted the city before and it'd be great to continue to avoid that in the future. 01:29:29
And I really like this, Mistine pointed out. Like we, we can have this fee as a Max the cap fee. 01:29:36
And the city can utilize. 01:29:45
The ability to have like a 0% fee of this ERU. 01:29:49
Just depending on who the developer is, what they have already put in, what their reimbursement agreement is, etc. So it feels 01:29:57
flexible and it feels like something that we can make sure the. 01:30:03
In the structure of this fee, it is specific to if you've put in infrastructure, you're not going to get hit twice. 01:30:13
Because we're really happy to work with you. 01:30:23
I'm always doing opposed for double, double taxing somebody in essence and making them double pay. But again, it comes out to 01:30:28
ensure that people are paying. So in that sense, if someone's coming and developing something. 01:30:36
And so forth. You know, in essence what they're doing is they're going to wherever the dollar amount they would be paying in would 01:30:47
be reduced to what they what they would typically know. 01:30:52
And in this particular scenario, in this particular scenario, it's what we're seeing is more of a one for one, maybe not maybe 01:30:57
more in favor towards the city and certain circumstances on that. But then again, you also look at redevelopment areas, so for 01:31:04
example for. 01:31:11
Someone, her brother's single family house, decides to purchase a single family house, tear it down and build. 01:31:18
Or actually it's happened other areas where they go out of two or three houses, tear down to three houses and build 1 giant house 01:31:26
on top of three houses, those higher houses. But then the new redevelopment run the pattern pay impact because of bringing 01:31:34
additional burden non-existing system as well. So in essence, I have a $0.00 amount the city's ties hands and not able to do and 01:31:41
not be able to do any of that, right. So if we can just be sure to have language in there. 01:31:48
To. 01:31:56
To not double impact people. I mean that's essentially what most of the concerns here that I'm hearing. 01:31:59
That that's my only suggestion. 01:32:10
That's great. That's great. That's great suggestions for sure. That's a suggestion that we will follow. 01:32:12
Any other comments? 01:32:17
And 539 it to some it may not be huge to others it's really big. I mean in this room we have, you know a lot of big developers, 01:32:21
but the impact of steel real. So I think anytime there's an impact fee for anyone, we can't entirely predict what the impact is. 01:32:29
The individual has to pay it and how it's going to affect development. Especially. I think we do have to recognize I mean what's 01:32:36
happening downtown is new. There's a lot of costs being paid and I think we're getting a big benefit from that. So whatever we. 01:32:43
I'm inclined having nothing in place, you know, there's going to be future people come to build downtown. They should know what 01:32:51
the impact is going to be for them fee wise because they're not, you know, they don't have pioneering agreements right now. So I 01:32:58
see the need for them to know what the impact fee will be. But we just need to keep in mind the work being done now in the 01:33:04
pioneering agreements that are already in place and and especially if the infrastructure is being built, you know, to to support. 01:33:10
What these companies want to to then, you know, utilize, I think we need to take that into account and and mention, you know, you 01:33:17
know, double bean counting that that's something that I think we're all concerned about is. 01:33:22
They're doing the work to build all of this that Vineyard couldn't necessarily do otherwise, and we want to avoid charging double 01:33:28
impacts and then having to to collect RDA funds or, or credits back from for years to come. 01:33:34
We're not suggested by boarding having the finance director being able to speak, articulate the point of how the finances are 01:33:45
accounted for to ensure that you know that things are being counted for properly and then to that undue burden on a residence 01:33:51
developer and. 01:33:58
Or even is not being placed again. 01:34:04
Double requires someone to double pay for the same service is totally against the grant of what they public agency should be. 01:34:10
We're not here to make money, as much as I like to argue that with another fellow planner of mine, but we're not here to make 01:34:23
money. We're here to ensure that we're providing this basic services and that any needs for the residents and the businesses alike 01:34:29
and you know, increase the quality of life for everyone to the to the levels that everyone's acceptable to. 01:34:36
All right. Thank you, Sir. 01:34:44
Do I have a motion? 01:34:50
I'll, I'll make a motion. It's never fun to to increase fees or money that the government collects, but I do think it's necessary. 01:34:54
So I'll make that. Do we have the that the proposed 1. 01:35:00
Do you have language for approval? The motion that would be, I don't like to have it here, but I think it's ordinance. So it would 01:35:08
be if it's recommending approval or denial would be for ordinance 2022-14 to the City Council. I make a motion to recommend 01:35:16
approval or you said a motion to send to the City Council. 01:35:24
I recommend approval and send to the City Council for approval of Ordinance 2022-14. 01:35:32
Adjusting the RDA service areas to impact fee from $0.00 to $539 per ERU in addition to the pass through rate at the current TSSD 01:35:38
rate. 01:35:44
And I would like to make an addition to that that. 01:35:51
It's a recommendation based on. 01:35:57
That people that are putting in infrastructure are not being double, double paid and I. 01:36:02
Yeah. 01:36:11
And then, Chris, do you accept that on that amendment second? 01:36:13
I'll second. 01:36:20
All right, is this roll? It is a roll call. All right, it's roll call. Hey, Anthony, Bryce. Alright, Tim, Chris, hi. All right. 01:36:21
OK, now we'll go to business item 4.1, Top Golf Miner site plan applications. 01:36:37
I. 01:36:50
OK, my name is Barry Maya. I'm city planner. I'm introducing the next applicant ex development. The owner and manager of that 01:37:08
company is here to answer questions. 01:37:14
Basically, this is a site plan amendment. 01:37:22
To the same top golf site and facility is to add a 10,000 square foot addition to the existing top golf building. This area is 01:37:25
basically going to function as a waiting space and additional recreational waiting space for the people already waiting and 01:37:33
registered for days at the top golf so as they're waiting for. 01:37:41
Their position in the queue, they can go into this area and and enjoy an additional recreational facility. 01:37:50
For their entertainment. So as I mentioned it's 10,000 square foot addition. This application also proposes some changes, minor 01:37:56
changes to the to existing parking lot and to some of the ADA, the position or location of the ADA parking spaces within the lot 01:38:05
and also adds 10 required parking spaces to the entire project. 01:38:14
The entire project is still very empty. 01:38:23
Part There's still a lot of spaces for people parking the mini golf. Let me show you a picture of what it will look like. 01:38:27
So it's kind of a similar design done in another location, not really sure where this location is, but Eric Turner can speak to 01:38:41
that when we just ask them some questions. But this is essentially what's going to look like. So it's twelve holes. Six of the 01:38:48
holes must be 80 compliant and four ADA compliance will be a Commission of approval with this project and final designs that 01:38:55
include ADA compliance, it must be submitted before building permits. 01:39:01
The entire edition is considered the open space, so it does fall under the definition of royal. Open space is within Arizona 01:39:09
definition so recreational areas and facilities are included in the function. Muslim League off will be turf but or I should say 01:39:15
Astro turf. 01:39:21
But it will still be adorned with water wise plants, trees and shrubs. 01:39:29
The management, we'll go back to the site plan. 01:39:35
It will have A at least 2 minutes proposed to have a four. 01:39:44
A full foot fence around the perimeter, it doesn't cross the six feet high and eight feet in weight on the moving part just to 01:39:49
provide some additional shielding and screening to the more like dining and gathering areas of the top golf facility. But that's 01:39:57
one condition that we actually have to have further conversation with the applicant because our zoning totally allows a 42 inch 01:40:04
docker defense on the front. 01:40:12
Yard of the establishment. So that is something that will be requiring tonight, but further conversations will take place that may 01:40:20
include his own text amendment for commercial properties that might be benefited by a fencing that exceeds that 42 inch in height. 01:40:28
So that that might be coming in the future to be presented to the Planning Commission. 01:40:36
So for now we'll need be approving 42 inches in height. The facility I mentioned was doing 10 additional parking spaces and with 01:40:46
that. 01:40:51
So let me explain why so many golf requires 1 space for 1000 square feet of activity area as stated in the outdoor amusement and 01:40:57
recreation parking requirements. And along with those 10 spots, we do actually jump up to one more additional bicycle parking 01:41:03
space as well. So that will have to be amended. 01:41:10
Video parking. So let me show you how the parking changes. 01:41:18
Can I pull up the old or the original approved site plan? So before the ADA parking was located here on the northern part of 01:41:25
Vermont. It's been moved down to a more centralized location in the lot. And then also this 4 feet concrete sidewalk is added to 01:41:34
the parking lot. And I think it's a good addition because it does provide a safe. 01:41:42
Facility for people within the parking lot to get in and out of the of the space. 01:41:52
These are protected and dedicated areas for pedestrians. 01:41:58
In addition, this crosswalk is being added. Let me just pull up the old site plan. 01:42:03
This is what I used to look like before on the approval from September the 1st of 22 months, we have your 780 parking spaces here 01:42:13
in the north and in this area did not have a crosswalk, so that's being added as well. The additional parking spaces are being 01:42:20
added here in this section. 01:42:26
Southern just to the South of the the minutes here. Moving back to the new site plan. 01:42:34
One of the conditions of approval is that it's not showing in the in the site plan that an ADO ramp be provided right here. So 01:42:42
that's something that we would like to see. 01:42:48
And then? 01:42:56
That's pretty much the the summary of the project after he was had a chance to ask the applicant some questions about the project 01:43:02
or express any concerns are laying out the different conditions. I have 8 conditions that I'd like to walk you guys through, so 01:43:08
Eric is here to answer any questions. 01:43:14
Eric Conrad's development. I'm going to start out with the fence discussion. Happy to have a seeking. 01:43:24
That we work with staff to we're not going to amend the zoning code and so we could work with that after approval tonight prior to 01:43:30
building permit that we have a code compliance sense that would need the 42 inch requirement. 01:43:37
Eliminating the privacy screening likely in most most locations they could just an iron fence keeping this you know as part of the 01:43:47
account for our open space is there is a little bit of. 01:43:52
Fine line we have to walk with the ABC and making sure there is some separation with the hyper fence and so it would have the 01:44:00
majority of it's just an iron fence. They can stay through 42 inches. I believe that the ABC requirements too. 01:44:06
The other items that we are doing, there's one, one more crosswalk on the north side of 500 N that's been added as well going 01:44:17
north. So several new crosswalks, new pedestrian connectivity, the mini golf course. And then we can get conditional approval 01:44:23
tonight to work with the staff on the events, material and height as well as work with building department on the ADA compliance 01:44:29
department. 01:44:35
Fighting force and the new problem. 01:44:41
That would really help us sort of condition this year. 01:44:44
Cool. Thank you. Any questions? 01:44:48
Yeah, I do have a question on just the setup for open space requirements. So this although open space it's not open to just the 01:44:51
general non paying public in in this section, correct? 01:44:57
OK. Yeah. So there are incorporated in here. There's there's a hangout benches and Cornwall play area and whatnot and a trail that 01:45:06
can be walked on. 01:45:11
But it is open to the public, just not that playing part. OK, I wanted to clarify that just because if we're counting it as open 01:45:17
space, I want it to be a. 01:45:21
Public amenity that some people can enjoy even if they're not playing. 01:45:25
And this will be available separately from regular top off families with kids. 01:45:29
Any other questions? 01:45:45
So just because I didn't understand the question, great. So is the mini golf course open to the public to use if they're not 01:45:47
participating in the top golf activities? It's not free. 01:45:53
Aspects to this new site, they designed this landscape design that has some benches and quantum play areas and some other hangout 01:46:00
spots that are open to the public for non paying customers to play golf on the mini course. 01:46:06
Do you need to pay for the entire couple of No. 01:46:14
Yeah, OK. That's. 01:46:18
And. 01:46:21
Yeah, and you could walk in and go around the mini golf course and not pay to play and just be there, correct. It might be a 01:46:24
little awkward. And you said ******** is open to the. 01:46:30
Public, but you'd also walk in, walk all the way around and then. 01:46:37
Mini golf on the in between the building and the mini golf right where it says mini golf area per owner, just down to the bottom 01:46:43
right of that rectangle. There's a corn hole hanging out spot right there. Benches throughout the area. There's lighting 01:46:49
throughout the area. So it is and there's a pathway that makes connection. So you see the trail going to the right. It'll go to 01:46:56
Geneva Road and tie into the future of Geneva widening. 01:47:02
You know pedestrian facility that gets placement by your dot? 01:47:10
Any other questions? No additional questions. 01:47:16
I think it's cool I have a motion. 01:47:19
Can you add to the conditions too that they'll work with stuff on fencing? 01:47:27
And ABA compliance, right, right. Those are conditions that are laid out here. So the conditions are the application style 17 01:47:33
bicycle parking styles for the new required parking calculations definition 80 ramp at the East End of the sidewalk that leads 01:47:41
pedestrians onto 1700 E from the Indies Falls and from the primary building. We could just choose that to make sure that. 01:47:49
That idiot answer and start at the ends of all crosswalks and that kind of covers everything. The applicant shall ensure that the 01:47:59
design of the mini golf meets all 80 requirements before submitting for building payments. That includes accessibility rules, 01:48:07
accessible accessible rules, accessible routes, accessible services, ingress and egress, etcetera. 01:48:14
So this is kind of a specific one from the building department. The applicant shall label all slope changes required at the mini 01:48:23
golf course for ADA requirements. That's just an additional ADA specification. Fencing within the building shall be reduced to 42 01:48:29
inches in height. 01:48:36
I didn't mention this, but my pose at the mini golf course shall not exceed 28 in height and shall meet all of their zoning code 01:48:43
lighting requirements. 01:48:47
And then the applicant pays an outstanding fees and makes some revenue corrections. The applicant is subject to accuracy and local 01:48:53
laws. 01:48:56
Could you change the fencing one to just be the work with staff to be compliant on fencing? Yes, instead of a specific 42 inch. 01:49:01
Stuff. 01:49:11
I got it, it's cool. Do I have a motion then? 01:49:15
Yeah, I can make a motion. 01:49:20
I need to approve the minor site plan amendment as requested. 01:49:22
In this case by Carla Mata with 50 Mil LLC with the proposed conditions read by staff. 01:49:29
Do I have a second? I second all in favor? 01:49:35
All right, cool. 01:49:38
OK. Thank you. 01:49:42
Excited to see it done. 01:49:44
Yeah. All right. Moving on to work session and moderate income housing plan update with ****** City General plan, OK. 01:49:46
I'm on this one as well. 01:49:55
Whoops, that. 01:50:00
Sorry before before we get into this, could we move to 6.3 and then come back to it? 01:50:03
Just so that we don't have to keep them here. 01:50:11
We're going to move to 6.3. It's already been a long meeting. I feel for you guys. So. So 6.3 blocks 5 and 6 of Vineyard Station. 01:50:15
Definitely you can go to the work. We have a presentation to show that accompanies. 01:50:28
Yeah. So this will just be primarily a presentation from from the applicant and then staff is in our during our review process. So 01:50:35
most likely we know what these kind of larger projects that the Planning Commission prefers to have like a work session on them 01:50:41
prior to a decision type meeting. So that that's what this is. 01:50:48
Grant me access to that. 01:50:54
Thanks. 01:50:57
You. 01:51:07
Just one Krista High 5. 01:51:07
Let's see, I could reload and see. 01:51:13
There we go. 01:51:17
OK, now just tell me when you're ready to move. 01:51:20
So these are our first two blocks. We'll Scroll down and just kind of show you where it is. We're going to bring up your 01:51:23
architectural review, landscaping, some renderings. Landscape is still a little preliminary. We've talked to staff a lot about the 01:51:28
landscaping. 01:51:32
We'd like to stage when the landscaping plan gets final approval because we really want to tie especially these blocks that are 01:51:38
right next to the promenade. We're working with the landscape architects to make sure that we're not duplicating things in both, 01:51:43
and it's kind of working together. 01:51:49
Staff, I think has been open to that idea with some specific I think we're working on something. 01:51:56
Timelines of how that'll work. We're still discussing a little bit of that, but it is such a different side. I think everyone will 01:52:02
understand as you look at this, it's really important and we want to spend a lot of time on the landscaping because it's so 01:52:07
integral that it all intertwines and goes well together. This isn't just like build the Dairy Queen and making sure you've got a 01:52:13
few shrubs and what you need and the through drive through works. I think you'll see in this that the Paseos, the courtyards, 01:52:18
everything is so important. 01:52:24
To get right, we want this to be, and I think we've reiterated this and you're probably going to hear this forever, but we want 01:52:31
this to be the most pedestrian friendly place in Utah. 01:52:35
For cyclists, cars still need to obviously work in the site, parking still needs to work, as everyone knows, but we want this to 01:52:41
be a place where. 01:52:45
Everywhere else is kind of designed around the car and this is a community that should hopefully be designed around people and all 01:52:50
these other elements will work. I got hit my car yesterday on the bike, so it's real fresh on my mind. So I'm even more anxious to 01:52:58
make sure that this that this works. I don't think the concussion was very bad, but things go off track. 01:53:05
So we can start spinning through this bit here and I'll be brief and then any questions you have. So this is the project area. 01:53:14
Philosophy right now our building philosophy is kind of line the park. That's our intent to do first. We're starting away from the 01:53:23
train station because we want to make sure we get the train station exactly right with the density and the and the the retail 01:53:29
impact that we want there. So we don't want to under build that area now. So that's kind of why we're seeing this start down here. 01:53:36
Our next block will be on the exact opposite side of the problem. 01:53:43
With the potentially taller, you know, 678 story buildings on the other side, just trying to start finding that part. We're going 01:53:50
to work our way up. 01:53:54
We are working on the middle block there by the by the train station as well, potential grocery store and some other things that 01:53:58
we're going to. 01:54:03
That I've mentioned those time to. 01:54:09
Hopefully we'll be in here soon to kind of show you some of the things you're working on there, but just. 01:54:11
Project area is 5-6 and three we've talked also. So it's going to we're going to serve this part things currently and then go back 01:54:16
in and densify that with structured parking and build units on top of the future. So we'll always maintain the minimum requirement 01:54:24
of parking. It's just the parking will shift over time. Structured parking as everybody knows is extremely expensive. So our 01:54:31
thought is that we can build these other units 1st and then come back in and spend those dollars later. 01:54:39
Safety already money saves US money and enables us to build more buildings faster. The site is so large, sometimes you lose the 01:54:46
scale of how big this is. We think one of the biggest risks to the project is that we don't build fast enough. So what you're 01:54:52
going to see is we're going to be pushing development that, you know, we're probably in a housing recession over the developer. We 01:54:58
are in a housing recession, but we're still going to be moving. This is a, you know, 10-15 year building, so you're going to be 01:55:04
seeing projects just. 01:55:10
No matter what the market. So that's the project area if you want to go to the next slide here. 01:55:18
Oh, sorry, next slide. 01:55:26
Friends. So this is kind of site as is. 01:55:29
A few months ago, so, you know, a little more advanced than this CDP. 01:55:33
Silhouette Up in the left corner there is a point. 01:55:37
So there's blocks five and six that we're doing. So that's the it's in the downtown excuse area. 01:55:45
So here's the here's the plan. The permanent landscaping, the pista is obviously in the buildings themselves. Parking lots are all 01:55:53
temporary parking lots that will come back to you later. And that's fine. Build on top of. 01:55:59
Block 5. 01:56:07
That's a little more advanced look. So that's the Paseo. You know, you see all these Paseos in the world that's going to be very, 01:56:10
very pedestrian friendly. 01:56:13
No cars at all in there. 01:56:17
And then the courtyard, so we think the three kind of open space elements in your overall community that are going to be really 01:56:21
important is obviously Geneva Park and the true problem out there is and the lake, those are kind of the more public areas. These 01:56:28
courtyards are really, really important every year, right, Because they're going to have a lot of different elements that will act 01:56:34
in the neighborhood community and these are obviously the corridors just. 01:56:41
The paseo is this. 01:56:48
So everyone can have that pedestrian. 01:56:52
The courtyards will be gated. 01:56:55
Most of their stuff will be open, but most of those will be private for. 01:56:59
But anyone that lives in the community can go in probably all of the different courtyards, and we're gonna have different 01:57:03
experiences and watch the balls out, some other things than others. 01:57:07
Kind of creating this overall neighborhood here. 01:57:13
So here's our building elevations. 01:57:18
Lots of Rick you can see here. I think there's a rendering maybe below these. 01:57:22
Yeah, there you go. So I mean. 01:57:32
Much different architecture than you see anywhere in Utah. 01:57:35
We're really excited to create a place that has never been built before in Utah and we think that. 01:57:39
You know the restart here to justify building a building like this here today. We think long term as we create this sense of place 01:57:45
that will be somewhere where. 01:57:50
People will want to live. 01:57:56
This is all rentals or is any of this condos? This project here is rentals. There will definitely be. 01:58:01
So how did you get an idea of looking field of the community? 01:58:17
Is that the auto court? What that little drive right there, the gate, OK. 01:58:23
So that goes into the auto port. We've got those apartments here, dude. He's probably a lot better than this. 01:58:28
Probably wondering why he's not doing. 01:58:33
So here's the Paseo. As you're going into the Paseo, it's narrowed down. It works for the fire. We had to work with fire pretty 01:58:39
closely to make sure they could get their clearances to get far enough in. 01:58:45
Before it became not a driveable area. So there may be some volumes here, but at the opening here to make sure no one's driving 01:58:51
again, but. 01:58:55
You know, just like, I don't know if you guys saw these at the train station grand opening. 01:59:01
And one of the basic measures that we need to do is. 01:59:05
You have to build these things around rails, transit stations, etc. But the third component is something I haven't really thought 01:59:08
of much before. But you have to have complete neighborhoods in these areas. And that's what we're trying to do here so that we can 01:59:13
live workforce to play, do everything you want to in the community and all the trails that you have down here S tie into it. It's 01:59:19
just. 01:59:24
Bronson and just since we're on this or I'm sorry, Nate when Bronson presented to staff. 01:59:32
He explained kind of the purpose of some of the landscaping elements to help provide more of a sense of privacy and stuff like I 01:59:40
don't know if you want to be share that with the plan was pretty good so. 01:59:44
Jeff's also key things is. 01:59:50
You want people outside of their houses, but very rarely is it just wide open. And that's for a real, real extrovert that just 01:59:53
wants to stand outside and stay with knock to anyone that they don't really know. Most people like to be in the public realm that 02:00:00
have a little feeling of privacy. So you'll see some of the landscaping elements are being elevated up above the Paseo. That's 02:00:07
encouraging people coming out of their units and being out on the Paseo without actually standing down in the Paseo. 02:00:14
And the more people that come outside of their units, the more comfortable it is to walk inside the sale. Just as humans, we feel 02:00:21
a lot more safe. The more people that are around, the safer you feel usually. So that's the intent of some of those landscaping 02:00:27
elements towards the place. 02:00:32
And why it always a lot was temperatures you'll see there that's to encourage people to. 02:00:40
Come out on their on their balconies. 02:00:45
And we'll obviously get in and workout with this once they've done their review and we're actually talking about specific things 02:00:56
today, which is kind of a. 02:00:59
Showing you what what the plan is and see if you have any questions. 02:01:03
So that that kind of shows the different elements of the courtyards. 02:01:08
So one of those will be parking like you see in European areas. 02:01:14
Very simple, not a lot in there besides, so that's also during the day to allow kids to be there playing with, you know that. 02:01:19
Have some hardscaping and some privacy area for kids to go on recruiting. 02:01:25
The hearth area up there is going to be a lot a lot simpler and a lot calmer. 02:01:30
The backyard is a little more active in the highest, the most active. 02:01:35
With more play features for children, et cetera, as to give every, you know, anyone that lives in this community a little bit of a 02:01:40
different vibe and feeling in each one. So if you're a little more private. 02:01:45
Maybe a professional, you'll have kids. Maybe you're in the heart. 02:01:51
Got kids? Maybe you're over on the hive. And if you want to go in between your backyard? 02:01:55
Yeah, the Bike Blvd. concept. 02:02:02
I think that's some of that that we talked a little bit about another proposal, so. 02:02:07
Yeah. 02:02:12
The bike Blvd. is just in the in the code the street sections. 02:02:16
The bikeway and so this will have bike lanes that basically create an interior loop of bike lanes. 02:02:23
Around the downtown. 02:02:31
If you keep going through a couple more of these. 02:02:34
We've got some sections of what those look like. 02:02:38
His makeup. 02:02:42
How much is give you an idea of? 02:02:43
And like like we said, I don't want anyone to get too fixated on landscaping that because that is the one thing that we're still 02:02:47
working on as we're designing the promenade area as well. We want to make sure these all tied together with the sales and the 02:02:52
courtyards in the surrounding areas so that we're not replicating things or. 02:02:57
But this is kind of a. 02:03:05
Survive currently of these areas. 02:03:08
So you said it's a temporary parking lot because we don't use the RDA funds for the multi level parking structures. Yeah, yeah, 02:03:15
yeah. We will come back in and there will be structured parking. It's just trying to create a tax base. 02:03:23
That then has the ability to start paying back those RDA dollars and we have, we have plenty of graphs so we can surface part 02:03:32
things for a while while we continue it to shape out the spaces and then we'll come back in. 02:03:37
But the temporary parking, so I'm assuming I'll will account for how much parking is needed and. 02:04:14
Also, I think one of the differences of a community like this versus what we're seeing in the other communities and I think the 02:04:23
residents will start to see this as we develop. 02:04:27
The problem with parking in the other areas in the city right now is not a function of April parking, it's a function of. 02:04:33
Too many people living in units and over parking the areas that were designed that. 02:04:40
I mean every unit you have. 02:04:45
Has garages for the most part or ample guest parking. It's when you get 2345 cars per unit and. 02:04:48
You know you can never. 02:04:57
Never have enough parking, That's the way things go. So parking here will be very monitored and enforced for residents so that so 02:04:59
that that doesn't become an issue. 02:05:04
Is that is that through just the rental contract? 02:05:09
It's in the code as well. So when we rewrote the code, that was one of the things that would that we developers were, you know, 02:05:13
what worked really well with Hassan is that once you hit the threshold of 500 units, then it allows us to to have them hire a 02:05:20
parking consultant who would then analyze the current parking conditions. And that would be a report submitted to myself and to 02:05:27
Nassim. And then we would be able to analyze it and then provides the City Council the ability. 02:05:34
To to up the parking requirements if you know if if it's shown. 02:05:41
On this site that that it's it's under park and so it definitely puts them it's in their best interest being the managers and and 02:05:47
you know, the management company to be able to to try and manage the the the parking at a really high level. 02:05:54
So. 02:06:02
Sorry, I should have probably not jumped up and started talking to. 02:06:05
One of the things I just wanted to touch basically as we're talking about all these spaces, which is something that we've done a 02:06:10
lot of projects and this is super unique where we're designing this project to be a project and we're not. We're attaching on to 02:06:16
and building a community around. So creating these open public spaces where everything in the future is also going to have more 02:06:22
parks, more open public spaces, more ways for people with access, kind of continuing diverse set of communities and central 02:06:27
community. 02:06:33
When it comes to things like the parking and you're saying? 02:06:40
You know, you're worried about how the parking is going to be used. We are too because we actually have to go and build in those 02:06:42
those parking lot. 02:06:45
Future and make sure that our communities. 02:06:49
Managing that parking appropriately, not burning kind of our existing community or future about this stuff. 02:06:51
The other kind of fun thing here, which is just we've never done before, is. 02:06:57
Everything, everything you see on all these plants, the ground floor units don't have always behind them. So in these when these 02:07:01
residents are stepping out with them now taking their trash out, going to do anything, they're not walking through a hallway to go 02:07:07
to the algorithm or trash room and actually have to walk out to the sidewalk. 02:07:12
All of the front doors, everywhere, lighting all of these days, even in the courtyards or the front doors, 40 minutes. 02:07:18
So we think this is a really good way to bring people out into these open spaces, attacking them, using get to know the papers, 02:07:25
see people walking. I think you'll see it when this projects open and actually be lived in. This is probably one of the more 02:07:31
pedestrian and you know, they're just going to be people in and out of the building at all different sites. 02:07:36
It's going to be really very important, so. 02:07:43
I think as we're looking at a lot of nice amenities that are lined by those kinds of units, it's a lot of questions. OK, well, how 02:07:46
loud can this be? Because these are people's front doors that are directly hooked and there's not a private space between that 02:07:51
front door and one person. These other uses are so. 02:07:56
Reasons why we need to make sure the last evening is automatic is. 02:08:01
You know, we really wanted to look at each one of these kind of situations and make sure that we have the right type of firm, the 02:08:06
right type of trees or or whatever that those barriers are to still feel the part of the community because they're building the 02:08:10
separation and then. 02:08:14
You know, so it is a work in process, but it's really, really exciting project and we're. 02:08:18
Taking a lot of risk on some of these types of units, different ways of living and different ways of access. And this auto parts a 02:08:24
great example. Everybody living in this building can go driving the artwork, pick something out or drop it out for a second while 02:08:29
they run groceries up to the floor. 02:08:34
You know. 02:08:40
Very different kind of amenity that's just not seen before, so. 02:08:46
I don't want to labor too much, but it's it's a really exciting project with a lot of a lot of new, new and different kind of 02:08:51
innovative things that are coming at it. 02:08:54
At the same time, we need to get going and get in construction and start doing it. So when we're talking about deferring plans or 02:08:59
as things are going to be continuing to be submitted to millions, just in the effort to try and get these things as right as we 02:09:04
can. That's also been in the construction and moving on to the next project and coming up with the next ideas of how we can make 02:09:09
this community better. 02:09:14
And I will say to people that are still commenting on density and parking. 02:09:20
They can call our office and even ask for me. So you can comment there and say because genuinely like I'd love to talk. I mean, I 02:09:25
can go for hours now because that's my life. I got three kids and one of them is Vineyard. And it's just going to be so unique. I 02:09:33
I'd love to show people this because the vision of what people usually have in Utah of what density is, is not good. And so that's 02:09:40
why they're pushing back on some of these things. And I think if they see. 02:09:47
The overall vision of what we're trying to do, it has to work like Max's. I mean, we're here for the long haul. This isn't just 02:09:55
like that. We're going to lease this thing up and sell it. We're going to own this thing forever. 02:10:00
And so we have to make sure parts are right, parking right. 02:10:05
You know, accessing analysis, it's really, really important to us to get this right. 02:10:09
With you, I mean, I think our vision, that's one thing we try to do in all of our agreements. Anything we've ever done in the city 02:10:14
has tried to align our interest with yours and the residents so that it is an incredible place to live. No matter where you live 02:10:20
in the state, whether you live on a $5,000,000 house on the lake or you live in a studio apartment in downtown. Like we want it to 02:10:26
be incredible for everyone and everyone in between them. So I just like a plantarian, really kind of applaud. 02:10:32
Flagborough for what, what they're doing with this first phase of kind of taking some, some risks and trying some unique things 02:10:40
because it'll be interesting to see how some of these amenities work. And these aren't things that you're you're typically going 02:10:45
to see. And I, I haven't really heard of that anywhere in Utah and it'll be neat to see that in phase one. 02:10:51
And you know, I'm sure if it's successful, that's something that you could duplicate throughout the project. 02:10:57
And we're going to, we're going to, I think we've been so methodical that people are going to actually prefer this over other ways 02:11:03
of living and. 02:11:06
She's gonna be a healthier. 02:11:11
I've seen you guys expect to start putting in kinds of retail and stuff like that. 02:11:15
We're talking with retailers right now, so we'll hope to have at least some larger retail uses in the next, probably 30 to 45. 02:11:21
Cool. 02:11:33
You know when you're doing those. 02:11:38
There's a lot of different types of users, different times a day that they use in the space you're doing the. 02:11:44
Still the same amount of space, and so it just takes a little bit more time to really get those walks right. 02:11:53
And really want to rush in that want to make sure that downtown is done really well. That said, we've got to get some of these 02:11:58
current tenants. We're really working on going. So we are rushing as quickly, as quickly as probably nothing is enjoying how much 02:12:04
better working on this right now. But I think our downtown project is going to be really, really cool. But at the same time, each 02:12:10
of these phases. So if you give me the plans here at the corner of the Ink building is actually designed for long term. 02:12:16
As a pre strap as ventilation room, it's as temple and hiding clear to be a nice, nice restaurant has outdoor seating spaces, but 02:12:24
there's really not market for it now. And so in this phase we'll we'll use that for a period of time. So we'll go down and it'll 02:12:30
be kind of an active retail looking space for a period of time. 02:12:37
But as we build out more amenities in future, that's perfect. It's built as retailer. We paid the extra money to make sure it has 02:12:44
all the requirements. 02:12:47
Work as a restaurant on the park, right on the park. 02:12:52
Come back, you know, five years from now and have these quarters restaurants. 02:13:25
Cool. Yeah, that's awesome. It's. 02:13:37
Cool to hear about how you're phasing it but putting it all in at the same time it's. 02:13:39
That's cool. 02:13:46
These are the street sections they were kind of talking about on so you can keep going. 02:13:53
Those kind of bikeway going up the promenade. So this is the promenade, you're going to be going up over the overpass. 02:13:57
Just past these buildings. 02:14:07
There's a little bit down on the clock. 02:14:10
Now this is the side street, so the bikeway. 02:14:15
The bike lane is elevated up on the sidewalk level. 02:14:19
Then that was going down into the paseo. 02:14:28
So there are sections that are gated off. 02:14:39
In the potatoes or OK, Just off of them, OK. 02:14:42
There's front door, there's front door here to do. So one of the things we're trying to manage is privacy of these units. And this 02:14:47
is very, you know, like you're going to have a lot. 02:14:51
Yeah, everyone has to access like their bedroom windows are right here off the Paseo. So trying to manage that a little bit, but 02:14:57
there are some people that prefer some of that activity. I mean there are cities all over the world that have that. 02:15:03
Here the courtyards are a little more private than that, So those will be the ones that are gated so that people can feel more 02:15:10
comfortable leaving bikes outside there. And some of these other kind of public but private elements that there's that they want 02:15:17
to leave outside but wouldn't feel comfortable for example, just leaving them with the staff for anyone to want so. 02:15:23
It will be open for all future phases in theory. So here is to continue to build. When you have a friend that's having a dinner 02:15:31
party or something out of one of those courtyards and pull together a bunch of tables, people, anybody can kind of walk over and 02:15:36
use their dog and get through the gates. 02:15:41
So we'll work on access controls and how we're going to handle all this stuff down the line and the ideas to try and. 02:15:46
1st. 02:15:52
We have problems, we have to address them. 02:15:55
That's that's the first design goal is to really try and. 02:15:58
Community office some reasons why even though there's kind of an island of a project on park really wanted to give the sale 02:16:01
started just so that people could understand what it is that we're creating. You know, this is going to be connected to additional 02:16:07
Paseos and experiences to grow. 02:16:13
Cool. 02:16:20
So this is going into. 02:16:22
Figure 8. Building is block 6. 02:16:25
So. 02:16:28
Sorry. 02:16:30
Thanks, Mr. Grandma, When you're asking about the the temporary parking that's kind of received, I can decide. 02:16:34
And then maybe go back one slide, right? 02:16:40
That's kind of the temporary parking fitness that we're talking about, but but sufficient to need to code them. So we're not 02:16:43
asking for any reduction of any parking. It's just. 02:16:48
The way the parking is going to be, their dials surface versus structure. 02:16:53
Of the entire future, come back from construction. 02:16:58
Buildings on top. 02:17:02
Which will be really cool because we really want you know, you'll have these are four story buildings and if you put. 02:17:03
Six story buildings on top of two or three decks of parking lot. 7 or 8 story buildings may be taller behind these buildings, 02:17:11
looking down over these buildings into the park. 02:17:16
Could pass for a really cool. 02:17:23
Overall experience in the park. 02:17:25
One of Jeff specs big things is, you know, I talked a little bit briefly. 02:17:28
Feeling safe the more people that are there. One of his other big things is you feel safe as you're enclosed, but it can't feel 02:17:34
too enclosed because then if you're like in a Canyon. So there's like proportions of how light things are. So remember when we 02:17:40
went through the process of doing the problem, not itself and how wide it was? A lot of the building heights along the park are 02:17:47
designed after those elements to make people that are inside the park and inside the sales feel more safe. 02:17:54
In the pedestrian. 02:18:01
I think it's one more kind of thing we're trying to play with in these blocks is really creating that urban feel. It really feels 02:18:03
like multiple buildings as you're going to be walking down complete changes of materials. They're not just, you know, you'll see 02:18:08
changes in materials, other apartment buildings, but very rarely do people go through the added cost of breaking up the roof line. 02:18:12
Big list and so. 02:18:17
The corner of our building will appear a little bit taller than that. Top floor is actually a little bit taller. So it kind of has 02:18:22
that red brick building goes like you. 02:18:26
It's almost a separate building. You kind of see the retail on the ground floor of that, that building where that space would be. 02:18:29
And then if you go back to that previous page real quick. 02:18:36
So just continuations of all those facades, you want to kind of keep these courtyards as bright and clean as possible so that the 02:19:10
all of the focus is what's happening down well, not necessarily looking out people. 02:19:16
Such as lighter and brighter and center. 02:19:22
It's just a, it's a really cool project and the fun part about this is all the work that we're doing to try and plan around. OK, 02:19:28
so the next days as this project comes in, where did the next level of menus go? 02:19:33
How do you park it? 02:19:38
Start piercing together. I think it's going to be exciting for everybody to see. So that's the that's the kind of more of the 02:19:42
heart area, the more private. 02:19:47
Quiet courtyard, kind of like the outdoor coffee shop or outdoor, you know, place that you're going to go out and sit down, sit on 02:19:54
the laptop, maybe you pull the tables together and have a, you know, a little dinner, dinner party kind of thing. 02:20:00
But it's really meant to be less of like a play space, you know, fire and what we're kind of doing every night, lighting. 02:20:08
Then the backyard has more of those play elements, not quite as active as the Hive, but it's probably a little too urban still. 02:20:17
We're still working on how all this stuff comes together. And so they'll get too fixated on it, but the idea is this is supposed 02:20:23
to be a backyard. It's not too much overdone, but there's grilling elements, there's grass fields, there's places for people to 02:20:29
play, there's places to sit down and, you know, do something, but it's not necessarily as kind of. 02:20:36
Telling you what you're supposed to do in that space when you're. 02:20:43
You kind of use it for what it is. 02:20:46
This is the This is the road that actually wraps around the grave building. 02:20:51
This road will have vehicular access. We need that to be able to drive cars on this, to manage future access to parking 02:20:55
structures. But it's designed for pedestrian first by far. So the way the trees are oriented, the paving, the lighting, everything 02:21:01
will be telling drivers they need to slow down because it's going to be tighter, it's going to feel different, probably won't have 02:21:07
followers there. It's just an older picture. But the idea is that again, even though. 02:21:14
The temporary parking lots are temporary. This road, these road conditions are not temporary. So we're trying to make our, you 02:21:21
know. 02:21:23
You get those right? Can we go back to that one fish? Sorry, this one. 02:21:27
Parking. Yeah, this shows. 02:21:41
No. 02:21:44
Yeah. 02:21:46
Not try to sneak that, you know, that's but nothing even passed us tonight. So yeah, there's the minimum parking. We need it. 02:21:48
That's what we have. 02:21:52
So that's all the time. 02:22:00
Edgewater and the Preserve, and so this will hopefully be able to model more after those professionally managed. 02:22:34
Developments rather than the owner occupied ones. 02:22:43
Last thing I'll say and then ask questions or whatever is happening, but I just wanted to tell you all. Thank you. We've been down 02:22:48
here for a long time. 02:22:53
And we didn't know you at first. You didn't know us. It's taking a lot of trust. I think you gave some trust in that we hadn't 02:22:58
heard and. 02:23:01
You know, vice versa, not vice versa. 02:23:05
But I think like, you know, we had to get. 02:23:12
We have to really get to know each other and I hope that what you're seeing here is the vision of it's been a lot of years of 02:23:17
vision and there's been a lot of concern about what will happen downtown. We'll build out how, you know, this higher end 02:23:24
pedestrian experience that everybody's wanted for so long. We spent a lot of time on this first phase. It's, you know, certainly 02:23:31
as it gets done, there might be a thing or two of which we have to meet. But the good news is we'll be able to kind of. 02:23:38
Hone in on those things and fix them. Hopefully there's not too many because we've spent a lot of time and a lot of money on some 02:23:46
of the best architects and land planners and urban designers in the world and walkability experts. 02:23:51
I just want to say thanks like this is been a lot of years. It's been a pleasure working with all of you. 02:23:57
You know, sometimes we disagree and sometimes we still probably disagree more in the future, but I just wanted to tell you thanks 02:24:04
for working with us and trusting us to hopefully bring some of the city that all the residents at some point will be dropped. I 02:24:09
understand we're going to have to still earn some trust with a lot of people, but hopefully we're building a community at some 02:24:14
point. They'll even go down to this section. 02:24:19
So a question I have. 02:24:27
And Nathan Brunson, it's it's about trust. 02:24:30
And what I thought were promises made in the past that maybe I don't see currently. 02:24:33
I don't see anything relating to the history or heritage of Vineyard and I had thought that along the Paseo especially, we were 02:24:39
going to make a big effort to try to celebrate and remember the heritage of Vineyard. 02:24:45
And whether it was in the park benches or in the lighting poles or the trash cans or vineyards growing and I'm, I'm hoping that we 02:24:51
haven't lost that. I just don't see that in what you've presented tonight along with Paseo. 02:24:59
Yeah. So maybe 11 clarification. So when we're there's kind of Brian, if you can maybe go back to one of the slides that kind of 02:25:07
shows an overall picture. 02:25:12
There's kind of three different open space types. There's. 02:25:18
The primary one is the Lake Promenade. And Tim, I think that's where you and I have talked about. 02:25:22
Historical references in the Promenade. 02:25:28
There's definitely opportunities in the so that the sales are kind of the next step down. These are those pedestrian connections. 02:25:32
They're they're public, it's open space. And then the third are these courtyards. And I think there's definitely opportunities in 02:25:40
those to capture some of the history. 02:25:45
Whether it's, you know, more subtle. 02:25:51
Or it could be. 02:25:54
Maybe not as subtle and there's maybe. 02:25:57
Story but I think what you and I were talking about is along the promenade which these plans are, we haven't go into the 02:26:02
promenade, we are working on that but. 02:26:07
These So there's two site applications, site plan applications. There's one for block 5 and block sticks. And we will be breaking 02:26:14
one in the lake promenade, that open space that connects the train station to the lake. Yeah, that's when I've had the most 02:26:21
interest in not so much in the courtyards and things, but where the public will be accessing the train and the lake and walking by 02:26:27
and seeing and sitting on the benches or throwing their trash in the trash can or whatever. 02:26:34
I just like to see us be able to have a historical representation there. 02:26:42
So that those those are not been locked over. Then you still have my trust. Don't don't break it. 02:26:46
I think it's great, and honestly I was skeptical in the beginning. I've been here since all of it pretty much. But the more as 02:26:55
time goes on and the more plans keep coming forward and stuff, the more excited I am about it. I think it's going to be awesome. 02:27:06
And yeah, I'm excited to see more stuff and. 02:27:18
I think it's great. 02:27:21
I've been saying for the last couple of years that I'm. 02:27:25
Like I'm staying in Vineyard to see the Stanton through. 02:27:28
And then as soon as the developer breaks my heart, I got to move. But I mean, so far, so far so good. So. 02:27:33
That was my line. 02:27:42
Cool. 02:27:46
Correlation and causation mean that. 02:27:51
Far as she moves into your project, you did a really good job. I mean that's my my hope is to want to live there so. 02:27:54
Thank you guys so much. 02:28:02
Look forward to it. Yeah, thanks. 02:28:08
It's not really a public comment. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, you can. You can talk to him out there. 02:28:13
Yeah. 02:28:25
For the record, we got to download the slide and put it into the folder, so. 02:28:28
OK, great. Yeah, I was gonna ask if those will be publicly available and what they shared. Yeah, they they they'll they'll be in 02:28:35
like the folder. So someone does a grammar request, but what, what, what we'll do is we probably would whatever like we'll, we'll 02:28:42
get the official one as part of the staff report and that that we made available to the publisher website. 02:28:48
So the comment I was going to make is I was going to suggest that we postpone the discussion of the work session of 6.1 and 6.2 02:28:58
until next meeting. The night has been awfully long. I'm tired and I'm just throwing that out. I'm old, so. 02:29:07
It's going to be fairly simple. We can modify it obviously later. It's living breathing document, but we, we do need to have it, 02:29:47
you know, approved and so we can report 100%. So, so would our next meeting be the right time? Would that be the first Wednesday 02:29:53
of September? Yeah, most likely we'll do on September 7th. We'll we'll do the public hearing for the moderate income housing 02:29:59
element. 02:30:05
That the heritage element can take longer. We, we, we can do full because I know you guys want to do more public involvement in 02:30:12
that section. 02:30:15
And so we'll take a little longer on that one to get the public involved, get the heritage technician more involved and then, but 02:30:18
at least on the 7th, we'll do the public hearing for the moderate income housing to meet the deadlines for the reporting. OK, 02:30:23
cool. Well, and I was going to suggest about the heritage portion. 02:30:28
What we were going to deny was just talk about the changes. Yeah, we can do a work session over that element, but we'll do the 02:30:34
public hearing for the moderate income because there's no reason put it off longer than that. Right. Thank you. Yeah, I'll make a 02:30:41
motion to continue item 6.1 and 6.2 in the work session to our next week. Do I have a second? I second that. All in favor, Aye. 02:30:48
All right. 02:30:55
Commission member reports and ex parte discussion and disclosure or anything? 02:31:02
Nothing. 02:31:07
Just real quick, if any of you do want to go to the Utah EPA meeting in September, it's the 8th and 9th I believe. Let me know 02:31:09
sooner than later and I'll get you a ticket to go. It's in Lehigh with the local 1 and we could do a one day pass as well. So it's 02:31:14
Thursday and a Friday, Yeah. Do they have a schedule up yet? There is on the Utah IPA website they have a schedule. The cash can 02:31:20
be sent on a link so they can just get it directly. 02:31:25
In the next few days and I'll get you that ticket if you want to go. Yeah, we know you're all busy. If, if a couple of you could 02:31:33
go, we, we would love to, to be able to, you know, you guys are doing great, but we'd love to just continue the education and 02:31:37
stuff. It's, it's going to be a really good conference this year. 02:31:42
Great. Just a couple of things. The train station is open and the pathway to the train station under the 800 N is open. So cool. 02:31:46
Nothing from staff, nothing else from. 02:31:52
Bicycle Advisory Commission meeting at 5:30 and Lise Anderson with PCs in a Rockefeller, kind of where we are with the Corridor 02:32:00
plan. The Central Open Space Coral plan is going to tell us about some of the programming that's been considered and some of the 02:32:07
next steps and post involvements. So it'd be good if you want to be informed on the plan. 02:32:13
Yeah, cool. And that's for the wetland area in the middle of the city. 75 acres. Yeah. 02:32:20
Anything else from staff? 02:32:27
Yes. 02:32:29
OK. 02:32:31
I got short hands. 02:32:36
So, uh. 02:32:37
Reference room. 02:32:40
Make the Robinsons. 02:32:43
Just a quick update, other than the frontline station being open and, you know, a lot of lots of things coming together. Awesome, 02:32:47
awesome efforts from from people that currently from a lot of people, not just again, not just people that like not just not just 02:32:54
say staff, but the developers need art was was working through it through the weekend. 02:33:01
ETA was working through the weekend and through. 02:33:09
Throughout the evening, I would also want to make sure that the that is not something that definitely happens overnight, that 02:33:12
happens over years and years of planning, design, engineering and so forth. So definitely our group efforts coming together. So I 02:33:20
just want to, you know, emphasize that point that that by no means is that they're small feet and stuff. 02:33:27
The other item just offer Plan Commission's situational awareness is a received designs for this traffic signal of 400 N and Main 02:33:36
Street late last week. So we're moving forward on that as well as moving forward on that in terms of construction season, putting 02:33:44
out the construction kind of based on temperament of the. 02:33:52
Contractor economy and so or contract contractors, Yeah, it may be several months before. 02:34:02
You know, it gets built depending on availability, contract availability materials. Also, I believe, I don't believe it will stay, 02:34:10
but the city received about $830,000 from federal grant in terms of pedestrian enhancements for pedestrian enhancements at Center 02:34:17
Street by. 02:34:25
Franklin. 02:34:34
Can that hawk be repurposed? Not really the one that's already in on that certain parts of it can be repurposed, like for example, 02:34:36
the post can be repurposed to the the arm may or may not be. But again, we'll we'll utilize it as best as possible about maybe 02:34:45
obstacle course as well now, but by the opposite repurposing as much as possible. 02:34:53
Obviously being cost conscious, but a federal grant? 02:35:03
Was given for the for crossings for center St. another one for 400 S for to enhance pedestrians crossing as well As for school 02:35:06
children as well. The other thing too. That's that's pretty interesting. I know that Lakeside park in Orem that's in the little 02:35:14
pocket between Vineyard. The the the drive access is offset from what's that road that has its heads for the South, but there's an 02:35:21
offset there and there's been conflicts with left hand turns. 02:35:28
So this is an opportunity for us to to align that as an intersection to just create a just more safe environment there, plus 02:35:36
provide the pedestrian crossing. And so how how we sold it to Mag with that it's it's connecting to to the front corner station, 02:35:42
which it is that makes kind of a. 02:35:48
With those two crossings, it helps obviously the children with the schools, but also just people heading up to the downtown and 02:35:54
connecting to our park system. So we're pretty excited about creating just another NS, you know, safe route for the city. Cool. 02:36:02
Great. All right, that is one more, one more. Yeah, just, you got just, uh, again, just for those that are staying at the Geneva 02:36:11
Bridge overpass has a missing piece to it. I'm sure a lot of people have noticed that, but you dot is they're working on emergency 02:36:19
repair and plan on starting construction in October for repairs. 02:36:28
With plans to complete it in January. Again, that's where their plan is. So it's almost it's a repair with sight unseen to 02:36:37
determine if the exact extent. 02:36:42
Of what they would have to do to make your repairs. So if it may have, I mean, so when I say January, maybe February, just 02:36:47
depending on the extent of that. But D dot is monitoring at constantly is monitoring it to ensure that everything is remaining 02:36:53
safe. So if that comes up, you got this over. 02:36:59
All right. 02:37:07
Nothing else from staff. 02:37:08
If not, then we will adjourn the meeting. Thanks everybody. 02:37:10
Long one. 02:37:17