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Start Position
INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE Bryce called the meeting to order. Anthony Jenkins led the pledge of allegiance and offered an invocation. 2.
INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE Bryce called the meeting to order. Anthony Jenkins led the pledge of allegiance and offered an invocation. 2.
OPEN SESSION - Time dedicated for public comment. Comments will be limited to three (3) minutes. No actions may be taken by the Planning Commission due to the need forproper publicnoticing.
OPEN SESSION - Time dedicated for public comment. Comments will be limited to three (3) minutes. No actions may be taken by the Planning Commission due to the need forproper publicnoticing.
Jordan Christensen gave a public comment stating that high density and mixed uses and generally a good thing. 3.
Jordan Christensen gave a public comment stating that high density and mixed uses and generally a good thing. 3.
MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVAL3.1    December 7, 20223.2    January 4, 2023Anthony Jenkins made a motion to approve the December 7, 2022 and January 4, 2023 planning commission minutes. Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously. 4.BUSINESS ITEMS 4.1
MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVAL3.1    December 7, 20223.2    January 4, 2023Anthony Jenkins made a motion to approve the December 7, 2022 and January 4, 2023 planning commission minutes. Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously. 4.BUSINESS ITEMS 4.1
PUBLIC HEARING - Conditional Use Permit – Vineyard Auto  This item was continued on January 4, 2023 by the Planning Commission. This item will be continued indefinitely. The Public Hearing will be re-noticed at the appropriate time.  4.2
PUBLIC HEARING - Conditional Use Permit – Vineyard Auto  This item was continued on January 4, 2023 by the Planning Commission. This item will be continued indefinitely. The Public Hearing will be re-noticed at the appropriate time.  4.2
PUBLIC HEARING – Development Agreement for The Forge
PUBLIC HEARING – Development Agreement for The Forge
Community Development Director Morgan Brim gave a presentation about the proposed changes to the Development Agreement.
Community Development Director Morgan Brim gave a presentation about the proposed changes to the Development Agreement.
There was a discussion regarding why and how development agreements are used.
There was a discussion regarding why and how development agreements are used.
Community Development Director Morgan Brim gave a presentation continued and the amendments to the development agreement were summarized.
Community Development Director Morgan Brim gave a presentation continued and the amendments to the development agreement were summarized.
Anthony Jenkins made a comment to the audience that the Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the decision making body and that the Planning Commission is not the decision making body regarding this item.
Anthony Jenkins made a comment to the audience that the Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the decision making body and that the Planning Commission is not the decision making body regarding this item.
Jeff Gochnour and Dave Borup with Dakota Pacific gave a presentation regarding the proposed changes.
Jeff Gochnour and Dave Borup with Dakota Pacific gave a presentation regarding the proposed changes.
There was an overview of the master plan of the Forge.
There was an overview of the master plan of the Forge.
There was an overview of the proposed commercial areas.
There was an overview of the proposed commercial areas.
There was a discussion concerning maximum height.
There was a discussion concerning maximum height.
There was a discussion concerning what is counted as open space and where it will be located.
There was a discussion concerning what is counted as open space and where it will be located.
There was a discussion regarding East Gateway Park and where the train track currently lies.
There was a discussion regarding East Gateway Park and where the train track currently lies.
The presentation continued and addressed comments from the previous work session.
The presentation continued and addressed comments from the previous work session.
The presentation addressed affordable housing and a discussion ensued.
The presentation addressed affordable housing and a discussion ensued.
There was a discussion regarding rental versus condominium units.
There was a discussion regarding rental versus condominium units.
There was a discussion about how to manage parking.
There was a discussion about how to manage parking.
There were several requests from the Planning Commission members to expand the affordable housing.
There were several requests from the Planning Commission members to expand the affordable housing.
The presentation continued to discuss a parking management plan.
The presentation continued to discuss a parking management plan.
MOTION:  Anthony Jenkins made a motion to open a public hearing. 2nd : Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.
MOTION:  Anthony Jenkins made a motion to open a public hearing. 2nd : Tay Gudmundson seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.
Hector Hernandez made a comment regarding parking and high-density housing and the difference between owner occupied and rental housing developments.
Hector Hernandez made a comment regarding parking and high-density housing and the difference between owner occupied and rental housing developments.
David Lauret made a public comment regarding parking, increasing retail and commercial space and grocery stores, and making shopping convenient for residents.
David Lauret made a public comment regarding parking, increasing retail and commercial space and grocery stores, and making shopping convenient for residents.
Daria Evans asked questions about what kind of retail would be in The Forge, where the public safety building will go and what it will be, how will delivery trucks access the publicly shared street, can the developer guarantee that first responders will live in the deed restricted units, how many 1,2,3 bedroom units, what will the parking structure look like, what is the draw for the hotel at this time, will the views be preserved, and what is the maximum height.
Daria Evans asked questions about what kind of retail would be in The Forge, where the public safety building will go and what it will be, how will delivery trucks access the publicly shared street, can the developer guarantee that first responders will live in the deed restricted units, how many 1,2,3 bedroom units, what will the parking structure look like, what is the draw for the hotel at this time, will the views be preserved, and what is the maximum height.
Don Overson made a public comment regarding the Geneva road expansion and that UDOT will not take more land and asked a question how many units can be built with surface parking. He also asked whether the zoning ordinance is being changed or can a development agreement override the zoning ordinance.
Don Overson made a public comment regarding the Geneva road expansion and that UDOT will not take more land and asked a question how many units can be built with surface parking. He also asked whether the zoning ordinance is being changed or can a development agreement override the zoning ordinance.
Dakota Pacific answered questions asked by Don Overson. There was a discussion regarding why surface parking is not desirable.
Dakota Pacific answered questions asked by Don Overson. There was a discussion regarding why surface parking is not desirable.
Dakota Pacific answered questions asked by Daria Evans.
Dakota Pacific answered questions asked by Daria Evans.
There was a discussion regarding making an exception to the standards for a grocery store.
There was a discussion regarding making an exception to the standards for a grocery store.
Chris Bramwell asked the developer what the best use of the property would be from their perspective.
Chris Bramwell asked the developer what the best use of the property would be from their perspective.
Anthony Jenkins made a comment that there is a variation of high density and regarding the best way to move forward with The Forge. Chris Bramwell said if we can figure out parking we can move forward. He recommended a parking study requirement.
Anthony Jenkins made a comment that there is a variation of high density and regarding the best way to move forward with The Forge. Chris Bramwell said if we can figure out parking we can move forward. He recommended a parking study requirement.
There was a discussion on widening of 800 N and removal of the rail spur. The rail is expected to be removed in 2024 and 800 N is out for bid right now. There was a discussion for the planned amenities on 800 N.
There was a discussion on widening of 800 N and removal of the rail spur. The rail is expected to be removed in 2024 and 800 N is out for bid right now. There was a discussion for the planned amenities on 800 N.
Bryce Brady provided a summary of what he would like to see from the developer. It included: a parking plan, transportation plan, a proposed  percentage of retail versus commercial, determine if the open space proposed is reasonable, and to provide details on for-sale units.
Bryce Brady provided a summary of what he would like to see from the developer. It included: a parking plan, transportation plan, a proposed  percentage of retail versus commercial, determine if the open space proposed is reasonable, and to provide details on for-sale units.
There was a discussion on reducing units from 1500 to 1250 or 1300 units.
There was a discussion on reducing units from 1500 to 1250 or 1300 units.
MOTION: Tay Gudmundson made a motion to close the public hearing. 2nd : Anthony Jenkins seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.
MOTION: Tay Gudmundson made a motion to close the public hearing. 2nd : Anthony Jenkins seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.
MOTION: Tay Gudmundson made a motion to continue this item to February 1, 2022. 2nd : Craig Bown seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.      5.
MOTION: Tay Gudmundson made a motion to continue this item to February 1, 2022. 2nd : Craig Bown seconded the motion. Roll Call as follows: Those voting aye: Chris Bramwell, Tay Gudmundson, Bryce Brady, Anthony Jenkins, and Craig Bown. The motion passed unanimously.      5.
TRAINING SESSION5.1    Segments of the documentary, “The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces,” by William H Whyte will be viewed and discussed by the Planning Commission.Bryce Brady continued this item. 6.WORKSESSION6.1    There are no work sessions scheduled for this meeting. 7.COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
TRAINING SESSION5.1    Segments of the documentary, “The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces,” by William H Whyte will be viewed and discussed by the Planning Commission.Bryce Brady continued this item. 6.WORKSESSION6.1    There are no work sessions scheduled for this meeting. 7.COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
Naseem Ghandour made a comment that a traffic signal at 400 N and Main Street will be operational by Friday. 8.
Naseem Ghandour made a comment that a traffic signal at 400 N and Main Street will be operational by Friday. 8.
ADJOURNMENT Bryce Brady adjourned the meeting at 8:12 pm.     Certified correct and approved on: February 1, 2022   NOTICED BY:   /s/ Rachel Stevens                           Rachel Stevens, Planning Tech
ADJOURNMENT Bryce Brady adjourned the meeting at 8:12 pm.     Certified correct and approved on: February 1, 2022   NOTICED BY:   /s/ Rachel Stevens                           Rachel Stevens, Planning Tech
Yeah. 00:00:01
Welcome everybody. 00:00:23
It is January 18, 2023. It is 6:01 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. 00:00:25
We'll have an Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance by Anthony Jenkins. 00:00:32
We'll do that fudge first. 00:00:37
Play. 00:00:41
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:42
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:48
Father in Heaven, we're thankful for the opportunity to meet together as a Planning Commission and as residents and staff, and we 00:01:02
pray for guidance to keep in mind the the needs of this area and that we can always put people 1st and safety considerations. 00:01:11
And also recognize our responsibility in the community. 00:01:20
We. 00:01:26
Also asked for. 00:01:28
Continued insights into ways that we can better serve the community and say this thing with Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Thank you, 00:01:30
Anthony. All right. 00:01:35
We'll move into the open session. This is a time for public comment, for something that isn't on the agenda. If you have a 00:01:40
comment, we will have the public hearing for. 00:01:45
Both the conditional use permitted vineyard auto and the development agreement for the forge. So if you have comments for that, 00:01:50
there will be a time for you guys to make comments for that. But if you have any comments that aren't on for something that's not 00:01:56
on the agenda right now is your time to come up. Just come up, state your name. 00:02:01
Take about 3 minutes if you need to. 00:02:07
Any public comments? 00:02:10
I realize what you just said and I also realized that I can answer that get up here in a few minutes. And so I won't think of 00:02:20
comment about the course specifically, but I will say that. 00:02:24
You say your name on the record. I am here. I think I turned it on, too. I am Jordan Christensen. I live in the preserve 00:02:31
neighborhood. 00:02:36
And my comment is that in general, high density mixed-use developments are a great thing and I'm very excited for the future of 00:02:41
our city involving those higher density. 00:02:47
Housing options. I understand that that may not be the prevailing or or. 00:02:55
Necessarily a popular opinion in some circles, but I think. 00:03:02
A Terrific. 00:03:09
Investment in our community. 00:03:10
Great. Thank you, Jordan. 00:03:13
Any other public comments? 00:03:15
All right. If not, we will move into the Minutes for review approval. So I have a motion on that. 00:03:18
Yeah, I had a chance to review those and I make a motion that we approve those. 00:03:25
Do I have a second? Thank you, Tay. All in favor. Aye. All right. Moving to business item. Public hearing conditional use permit 00:03:30
for Vineyard Auto. 00:03:34
Play. 00:03:47
Sorry. 00:03:50
Sorry, Commission. Brian Maya, city planner. So that one's getting pushed. At least one more meeting. 00:03:55
So sorry. 00:04:03
OK. Do we need to make a motion on that, Don? 00:04:05
No, we're going to have to re notice that, so. 00:04:10
Yeah, we'll, we'll post. We'll put it on the agenda for one notice. 00:04:14
Thanks, Brian. All right, moving on to 4.2, the public hearing for the development agreement for The Forge. 00:04:19
Great. Thank you, Chair. Members of the Planning Commission, appreciate the opportunity to be able to address you tonight. 00:04:29
Then just give me one second to set up. 00:04:34
Looks like I have this on extended strands. See if my eyeballs can work. 00:04:38
There it is. 00:04:47
I should have said it from Mary. 00:04:50
That's. 00:04:53
Thank you. OK. But the Planning Commission remembers, I think it was a few meetings back. We had Dakota Pacific come and present 00:04:56
during a work session of this project. And so this is the area kind of depicted on the bottom of last that's the general plan 00:05:04
calls that hours the mixed-use residential district, the general plan there calls for it being an economic center with a mix of 00:05:11
residential entertainment, retail, office, professional type type uses. This is area just north of. 00:05:19
North and also West of the megaplex, so Block H which is if that's like a head that's of the neck that's the area right behind the 00:05:28
megaplex don't Orient you and then on the right that's the area generally it's I believe it's like 40 plus acres. The IC parcel is 00:05:35
not a part of the development agreement and so that's owned separately by HC knows hold off several years back. So I've noted that 00:05:42
on that block but essentially all the others would be included in this. 00:05:50
If you take out the roads and some of the common areas, you're about 21 acres of development. 00:05:59
Developable paths, 7 acres of which is kind of a mix between private and public open space. 00:06:03
And then I'll. 00:06:10
I see blocked I mentioned before. 00:06:12
The current zoning standards limits the site to 1/3 square footage as in residential use, so that requires 2/3 to be a non 00:06:14
residential commercial retail office entertainment. It could be kind of a mix. 00:06:21
It requires mixed-use with some ground floor retail and so that that's kind of even with the current code that's an important part 00:06:29
is having ground floor straight frontage retail that helps to activate the street that's that's very important to the code. The 00:06:35
there's internal private streets 650 N was the road that was built back and I think it was like 2016 and that was turned over to 00:06:40
the city as a as a public Rd. 00:06:46
And then it is a kind of a quasi form based Euclidean zoning. The kind of Euclidian thing on that old school zoning form based is 00:06:52
the zoning that has some focus on the architecture and design and so there is an emphasis on human scale architecture. 00:07:01
Which emphasizes entrances to buildings, window placement, connections to walkways. The block structure is called out in the code 00:07:11
requiring. 00:07:15
You know greater vehicular and pedestrian connections. 00:07:22
With a focus on their urban design quality of because the pedestrian way. 00:07:57
These are the primary elements of the development agreement. The applicant will provide a lot more detail. They'll they'll run 00:08:04
back through the designs. This is the official public hearing. It's a master plan community. That's one of the main points of this 00:08:10
is that we wanted to have a forge kind of at a higher level design than what is called out in the turn code. There's private open 00:08:16
space provided throughout, there's the corridors along Geneva Rd. So there's kind of the idea of doing the trail system with 00:08:22
pocket parks. 00:08:28
Mid block enhanced alley gathering spaces and so that's really helping to tonight make a better connection to the yard that's been 00:08:35
a desire of the city is to see kind of these two developments the yard with me complexes and a forge used together at A at a 00:08:42
higher level 25 maybe other it might be 24 deed restricted affordable units. 00:08:49
Serving the 60% AM. 00:08:57
That's area medium income and that's and that's pretty important because typically it's an 80% am I a lot of developers go for 60% 00:08:59
would deed restrict us so that it would serve you know folks that are are kind of in more of your entry level jobs. 00:09:07
And they are proposing that these be kind of geared towards your public safety officials, so firefighters, EMT, police officers 00:09:16
and then teachers would would be I guess like net, net next on the list. So those are typically the types of residents that he's 00:09:23
love to attract. Often the housing costs do kind of push those those types of residents out out of the city and so having you know 00:09:30
your public safety officials. 00:09:37
Within the city and you know, having a lot of those units dedicated towards them, the city, you know, the staff really believes 00:09:44
that be a massive benefit overall to city. 00:09:48
The pedestrian street may be blocked off for festivals, so different programming of the street system. It removes the 1/3 00:09:53
residential requirement. 00:09:57
Requires ground floor commercial and retail to be 50% of blocks. And so that's kind of ensuring from a retail standpoint your best 00:10:02
retail is going to be your street frontage retail and ensuring that you kind of maintain that ground floor retail look. 00:10:09
And they're providing A1 acre public park in addition to the private parks along Geneva Rd. 00:10:18
A really great benefit in the future. 00:10:54
Geneva Rd. Trail will connect the City Park and the two pocket parks and plazas. There's a hotel use established for phase one, 00:10:57
which is a really big benefit to the city with the transient room tax and just the, you know, the the dollars that those folks 00:11:03
bring to it to retail district are are positive. 00:11:09
There's two central plazas with eateries allows the development room does allow up to three acres or 300 units constructed in 00:11:16
phase one without commercial. So allows them to kind of get through the gate what they. 00:11:24
Primarily or really a fully residential project at the beginning stages. 00:11:31
And then it as right now, allows a maximum up to 1500 units. 00:11:36
Morgan, can I ask a question? 00:11:40
So I missed the working group, session and so. 00:11:42
Obviously this is spelling out specifics, but can you give me a brief quick snapshot of why we do? 00:11:47
Development agreements versus. 00:11:53
Standard stuff that makes sense, yeah. A development agreement allows you to be a lot more detailed, especially in things that the 00:11:57
zoning doesn't necessarily account for. So things like if there's a requirement like for innocence for this, for residential and 00:12:03
commercial, it allows them to get out in a phase one. 00:12:09
And with residential, where's the code would you say you know you when your first building needs to have that, that that make up 00:12:17
that erasure that's called out on the code. It allows you to phase in parks, so when you want to see the parks. 00:12:23
You want to see parks? 00:12:30
Sooner rather than later, which amenities do we want to be brought forward downtown? We were very specific with certain amenities 00:12:31
that needed added prior to the major development occurrence, which are like the promenade in place. So that allows you to do 00:12:37
things like that. 00:12:42
Having these amendments incorporated and getting the final draft prior to to a decision, so that's that's up to you. The first is 00:13:50
to a modifications to the concept plan. 00:13:55
Need to be better defined. So there's some language in there that allows some modifications to the concept. Plans are supposed to 00:14:02
be constant plans. So we're asking for a more definition as to when can a site plan that you would see. So the Planning Commission 00:14:07
would still see the site plan approval, but. 00:14:11
At what level can the site? 00:14:17
Be modified from the concept plan. So we're trying to get some better teeth to that to provide guidance to staff, better time 00:14:20
frames for phase one, sorry. 00:14:25
Sometimes our system does that or just cuts out. 00:14:30
We we would like to you know obviously this the city would like to see retail constructed sooner. So the quicker phase one goes to 00:14:34
the process means that we're going to get to the the retail portion of the development and we'd like to see some time frames 00:14:40
established. 00:14:45
A change so well, so we want to make sure that future laws, so we put future laws in place that they if a project is not built yet 00:14:52
in their developments that they come forward with a building that if we have a future law that they would have to follow that that 00:14:59
law and that basically they're not vested by whatever zoning. 00:15:06
Requirements are in place now, so if there's a zoning. 00:15:13
Requirement that would attach to their type of development. It would apply at the time and that's pretty standard short term 00:15:16
rentals too. They they do call out short term rentals. That is a use that the city is writing a code for and we don't. 00:15:23
We don't want it just to be a straight up approved use that they'd have to go through any city process for rental, so it's not 00:15:30
something that they would bypass. 00:15:35
Baseline improvements for the public park need to be clarified, so we do want some details as to that. 00:15:41
Most likely it would be a donation in the city assisting with reimbursement on on the improvements. That's what we do with Water's 00:15:47
Edge, but we would need to have that spelled out at at what level can we say, OK, that park's good, we'll take it from there. 00:15:54
So there's some interest and we probably want to do this in development of that next one interested in establishing a public 00:16:03
Improvement District and being a really special district and having kind of a higher level of of public infrastructure than 00:16:08
typically would be in just a public St. a public Improvement District may be something that we will look at as a mechanism moving 00:16:13
forward to help keep maintenance at a very high level. 00:16:18
There's a sentence about impact fees that would vest them with the impact fees that are in place. Now we are in the process of 00:16:26
updating our impact fees and so same thing, we want the impact fees that are on the books to apply to the development when it gets 00:16:32
developed, not not their vested down. So we're we're going to modify that language. 00:16:39
We need to understand the water needs to inform the water master plan that we're going to be working on. And so Missy and his 00:16:47
group are going to work with them on that detention facilities, clarifying that if you do a detention pond that that can't count 00:16:54
towards your open space unless it's it's an underground system and the open space is the quality is is maintained. 00:17:01
Probably you're going to modify that so they do a really shallow the detention pond that doesn't. 00:17:10
Take away from the character of open space and that may be something we can, we can accept, but we have a lot of developments now 00:17:16
where you have really deep detention ponds and they're kind of, you know, we call them open space, but they're. 00:17:22
It's not as usable, so we just want to make sure if it's open space you can actually use it. 00:17:28
So that. 00:17:34
On the phasing of the open space, want that clarified language added and indicated in the concept plan for a public safety 00:17:36
facility. So we feel like this might be a great opportunity to get a fire station and we're working with the developers that we 00:17:41
can at least designate a space for it so it doesn't get developed. So you know we we definitely need none of the fire station in 00:17:46
the city. 00:17:51
And then language added indicated to the, Oh yeah, and then the last one, update the concept plan so that they're consistent and 00:17:57
some of the material that we've seen, there's little teeny changes between the plans. We want all the plans to have the same 00:18:01
consistent design all the way through. 00:18:06
And then our recommendation is with those modifications, staff is recommending approval. 00:18:13
We provided 4 motions for your consideration. 00:18:18
One is to approve, basically, as is a motion to recommend approval. 00:18:21
With with modifications, should you have any kind of in addition to what staff is laid out. 00:18:26
And then a motion. 00:18:32
To. 00:18:35
And that that may be the appropriate one if you want to see kind of the final document and then a a motion to to deny and these 00:18:37
would be recommendations to to the City Council. 00:18:42
The motion for continuance obviously would go back to you. 00:18:48
The applicant is here and would like. 00:18:52
Prison as well. Great. Yeah, if you guys, I'm happy to entertain questions from Did you guys have any questions for Morgan yet? 00:18:55
One thing that I just wanted to kind of level set is. 00:19:02
You started out with that current state, so that's what's existing today if no action were taken just for the public's knowledge. 00:19:06
And then what we're discussing tonight is a recommendation or a non recommendation to the final decision making body which is the 00:19:14
City Council and the mayor. So anything that we would do in this body would not be binding or official, it would be a 00:19:20
recommendation for. 00:19:26
The legislative body of the city, which is the City Council, the mayor, So I think that's an important. 00:19:33
Thing for everyone to understand as well. Thanks Anthony. 00:19:37
Rachel, do you need to switch them over? 00:19:55
Well, thank you for allowing us to be with you this evening. My name is Jeff Goughner. I'm with Dakota Pacific Real Estate. We're 00:20:20
the ones that are planning this project and have been working on it now for about 7 years. So it's. 00:20:27
We're hoping it's due time to get something started on this site, and we're excited about it. When we met with you back in 00:20:35
November, we appreciated your input. You had some good thoughts and good points. 00:20:40
And so we feel like. 00:20:47
With what we'll be presenting tonight, hopefully addresses some of those issues that were. 00:20:49
So this is my colleague Steve Borup, and I'm just going to turn the time over to him now to go through our slides. And feel free 00:20:56
to stop or interrupt and ask questions along the way if you prefer. We're happy to address those as we go. 00:21:03
And for the public's benefit, we thought would back up, right we originally came and just think it would respond primarily to the 00:21:13
comments that came from November and we've you know. 00:21:17
Listed out some of the main comments and how I've addressed for the public's benefit. 00:21:22
And Commissioner, Browns benefit. We'll just go back through briefly on the design inspiration, if that's OK, and just kind of go 00:21:26
through the big picture and why we're doing what we're doing. 00:21:30
Um. 00:21:35
Just back back to that to the point you know currently this is this, this space is entitled. 00:21:37
You know, 2/3 commercial, 1/3 residential. 00:21:45
And it was anticipated, you know that there'd be a 1.8 million square feet of total space built and about 1.1 million of that 00:21:48
would be office and then you know 500, six, 100,000 square feet of of residential and that was that's what the current entitlement 00:21:53
kind of anticipated. Again, it doesn't say that in the code, but. 00:21:58
But that's when it was designed and if you look at the massing and everything that was anticipated that's that was the scale. And 00:22:04
so just keep that in mind, what we're proposing isn't necessarily an increase to the total space. We're not adding additional 00:22:10
density in terms of total square footage of the building what it is. 00:22:15
A proposal of a master plan and it changes some of the uses from commercial to residential. 00:22:21
I think that's important. 00:22:26
The As we started to look at the space and the inspiration for it, we looked to great places that we thought would make sense and 00:22:28
what we heard. 00:22:32
In early meetings with staff and and the mayor was like. 00:22:36
Gathering Space Festival. 00:22:40
Places people can come together, but in a very urban setting, right? That's what the zoning wants and mixed-use is what the zoning 00:22:44
wants. 00:22:47
Don't try to change the intent of that and so. 00:22:50
You know, from Denver? 00:22:53
To like this particular space here is up in Connecticut where first time a Newtown Center was being built. We're not your Town 00:22:56
Center, right? We're not the downtown. But but these were case studies that we looked at of how they kind of went from not very 00:23:01
urban to urban and what the effects were and what their design impacts were. 00:23:07
I think this one is in Indiana and then I get a couple in Denver. But but this is what we see right? Some beautiful open space, 00:23:14
access to green space, access to hardscape. 00:23:19
People can come together. 00:23:25
With within the urban environment and so that that has been our objective and goal. 00:23:27
This is. 00:23:32
Of what it looks like and I'll just emphasize again. 00:23:33
You know, we've shown structures within this plan view. 00:23:38
They're conceptual in that what really the master plan is the space between the buildings, what's the pedestrian connectivity, 00:23:41
what's the open space, what's the Plaza and then of course some of the key terms that we've talked about and. 00:23:47
We've got building placeholders here. 00:23:52
We'll go into some of the open space designations, but but that's really been I think what the ask was from us to bring a master 00:23:54
plan that. 00:23:57
That will ensure that as this gets developed over the next 10 years that there's good continuity and it makes sense and there's a 00:24:01
certain quality to it and that's that's the purpose of the development agreement is really negotiate those kind of details. 00:24:06
Some objectives in the master plan was to create a real strong presence on this corner. 00:24:18
Right. You're coming from Orem to Vineyard. What we want to say hello, you're in Vineyard now and and put a real nice structure in 00:24:22
a building there. Integrate well with this Geneva trail. 00:24:27
Bring kind of a central Plaza into. 00:24:32
Really helped with the pedestrian connectivity of this Geneva Trails. It gets built out. We anticipate, you know, people can come 00:24:36
enjoy the parks, come eat and dine, move over, right? Eventually go back over. 00:24:41
Over to the downtown area to the lake, right, Really, really connect pedestrians and bicycle activity through the space. And then 00:24:47
also just integrate well with all the activity that's going to the South of us, right the the theater and the top golf and 00:24:53
entertainment district that's there and work well with that and invite pedestrians kind of up through and and into our space and 00:24:58
and integrate well. 00:25:03
These are the open space designations that we have created. Again, you know, a nice pedestrian internal alley that would have 00:25:10
business activity on all sides. 00:25:14
An East West pedestrian connectivity that's really a shared St. shared between cars, shared cars, pedestrians and and and bicycle 00:25:19
traffic. 00:25:24
You know, if a car is on it, they're going 4 miles an hour, right? We'll have calming effects to make sure that that that stays in 00:25:30
place. 00:25:33
Maybe a retail Plaza more focused on dining, where people can come together and eat and have some common area together. 00:25:38
And then you know looking at view corridors as you're driving along the road being able to kind of see into the space and fill up 00:25:45
the depth and. 00:25:48
Was part of the objective to be able to, you know, utilize the views of the mountains to the east. So these are some of the main 00:25:51
objectives in the open space. 00:25:56
The development agreement will talk about the quality of finishes and and some of these key characteristic points. But the idea is 00:26:02
that, you know, this would be a concept elevation of what might be at that central Plaza that will have some kind of a feature 00:26:08
that we're going to commit to in the development agreement, whether that be a water feature or some kind of a sculpture. 00:26:13
Right. The kind of paving and and the variety that would be there. I would love to see a food hall, you know, along this Plaza 00:26:19
along with you know residential and some seated dining all all part of that Plaza. 00:26:25
We commit to the number of trees, we commit to, you know, some interesting seating and all those kind of things within the 00:26:31
development agreement to ensure again that there's a certain level of quality. 00:26:35
Another concept, elevation this would be that. 00:26:40
If we were, you know, walking, driving, bicycling all along, there will be seating that will be active. 00:26:43
Let's not. It's meant to be really integrated and living in terms of the way it feels. 00:26:49
This to be an aerial view of the mastering study, again based on some some concept structures that we put into this. 00:26:56
You know, again, you can see the pedestrian activity. This would be Cauldron Street is what it would be called. And the idea is 00:27:05
that this street would have commercial on both sides of it. You're driving down it would it would be that urban wall that Morgan 00:27:09
talked about. 00:27:13
Where would be guaranteeing in the development agreement that both sides of that on the ground floor would have, would have 00:27:18
commercial and kind of an active retail feel? 00:27:22
We'll get into I think some more of this because we'll be responding to this and some of the specifics in in response. 00:27:29
But a key piece of this is how much residential, how much commercial and what we're what we're proposing is that 50% of the ground 00:27:34
floor would be. 00:27:38
Required to be commercial and where these dashed lines are would be required to be a ground floor commercial. So specific area 00:27:42
where there's commercial and then an overall ratio that would be commercial. 00:27:47
I think Morgan's kind of covered some of those other areas. 00:27:52
This is another representation of where the. 00:27:55
Is likely to sit in the massing study that we have. We've designated again you've got Calderon St. here which would be very active 00:27:57
commercial based and some residential. 00:28:01
Kind of sitting in and and throughout the development and these. 00:28:06
Displays. How tall did those represent? 00:28:11
Yeah, so if I look here, this is 4 stories here, this is five stories, so four to five story structures. 00:28:15
You know you start to get above that the construction costs go up quite a bit. So it's quite that's kind of a ceiling in terms of 00:28:23
just the economics of the project. So that so that would be. 00:28:28
50 to 60 feet. 00:28:33
If it's five story or yes and yeah, for residential you could assume 10, the ground floor would be 1415 feet and then and then 00:28:35
yeah 10/10/12 feet above that. So, so in this plan you have those, it looks like 3 1/2 buildings as residential. 00:28:44
And you're thinking 1500 units in those 3 1/2 buildings, No, each of those would be about 300. I I, I think in the first session 00:28:53
we disclosed like this is about 1200 units. What's what you're looking at? Again, I understand this is conceptual, but these, 00:28:59
these, these could be like 250 to 300. 00:29:04
Dwelling units apiece, we talked about some potentially in. 00:29:11
You know this building I think is marked as could that be residential, could that be commercial to kind of mix that in and then? 00:29:14
We could bring some ground floor commercial with some additional residential somewhere else into the project. So this this picture 00:29:21
of the green being commercial and. 00:29:26
The other stuff being residential, really it could be all of it is residential at the ground floor could be commercial and all 00:29:33
these buildings. 00:29:36
If the plan changes, that sounds like. 00:29:39
Plans right now. 00:29:42
Ground floor would be guaranteed to be commercial on 50% of the of the space to really keep the the, the the street active. That's 00:29:45
right. I think we talked about last time that with the reduction of office demand multi story commercial becomes challenging and 00:29:51
how do we meet that? 00:29:56
In. 00:30:01
That has been reduced in demand. We still anticipate office. We still anticipate office here. We still anticipate office here. 00:30:04
An office here is just going to be at a reduced reduced amount, probably more than the three story range for office. 00:30:09
So is there a possibility because I know in the in the change for the height it goes from 1:25 to 1:40, it can go up to. So do you 00:30:15
anticipate any of these buildings would actually be double what's being presented here? 00:30:22
And reach that 125 or 140 height. 00:30:29
In the current economic environment, I think that would be challenging, right? Just higher construction costs versus the rents 00:30:34
vector? 00:30:37
You know comparable in the in the vineyard market. 00:30:42
Is that is that a concern or is that? 00:30:46
If we're putting in one 25140, it gives a huge option to do more. Obviously you have a cap of 1500, so there's only so much that 00:30:51
housing, but if the plants here present, you know. 00:30:57
1000 housing using it you know it's realistically that only means it can go up you know you have to use that extra height you're 00:31:05
going to end up with taller buildings so. So the discussion is you know what what what what's the impact of that so as soon as you 00:31:10
leave the anything over four to five stories you start to get out of wood construction and into metal or or pre you know or cast 00:31:16
in place concrete and. 00:31:21
And the costs start to go up 3040%, you know, per unit. It's just economically becomes very challenging. 00:31:28
My guess would be if we did go higher with the office. 00:31:38
Which would be in some ways a nice problem to have, which is already going to be, you know, steel building in general anyways. 00:31:41
So you know, I think we provided and in what was sent out, it kind of goes through some of the details of some of the common 00:31:51
areas. I don't know that we need to go through that again. We went through that I think in. 00:31:56
Some depth before, but umm. 00:32:02
I guess I'll just stop there and ask if there's any other comments or questions about the design intent or the design concepts 00:32:07
around the open space. 00:32:10
And and then if not, we can kind of go into responding to the Planning Commission. So a couple of questions I had. Are you 00:32:15
including the internal alleys and the shared street is open space? 00:32:20
Correct, Yes. And a lot of urban environments that becomes open space. You know, we have a project in South Salt Lake City and 00:32:26
this kind of shared St. idea is is very much considered open space there as well. Exactly, yeah. 00:32:33
Yep. And then my second question when we talked in our meeting last I. 00:32:41
The majority of your open space is. 00:32:46
Narrow and just along the frontage road and. 00:32:50
Mentioned bringing buildings up to the frontage and actually making bigger usable open space because most of that open space is 00:32:54
not usable for park space. 00:32:59
For festivals or for anything? 00:33:05
I mean, you can plant trees there, but beyond that you can't really do anything else and that's the majority of your open space it 00:33:09
looks like. 00:33:12
This was. 00:33:16
Version that was presented in NN November 17th and the Red Arrows kind of represent the ask. 00:33:18
Hey. 00:33:25
Remove that fronted Rd. That's pushed buildings up to the street. They've been there to have urban wall there. 00:33:26
And so we evaluated that and said, OK, we do that now, where else can we add that open space? And we ran through several 00:33:33
scenarios. 00:33:36
The response came back and I'll just move forward here through the through the slides. 00:33:41
In a response to look more like this, so we reduced, you know if you recall we kind of had a long linear part that went up here on 00:33:47
this E Gateway park. We reduced that and then we. 00:33:52
The walls here. There used to be a street here and now that went to open space, we still remain the 2.2 acres. All right, this is 00:33:58
a 2.2 acre. 00:34:02
Central Park not including the shared street. So if you talk about festival, the idea was that we'll have opportunity to put 00:34:07
bollards here and here. Traffic can then flow out and around and still get into the into the place, but you could. 00:34:13
It's. 00:34:19
Probably 3 A/C. 00:34:21
And really make that a festival area, right? You'd have hardscape, you'd have soft scape, you'd have a lot of seating integrated 00:34:22
into there. And so that's that's that's one of the. 00:34:26
The other was then we took the acre that was removed and we. 00:34:31
Umm. 00:34:36
In this block behind the theater. 00:34:37
We said we will donate that land for public park, right? And so that's the more traditional Square park and there was a lot of 00:34:39
requests and discussion about how do we get a park further South. 00:34:44
And you know. 00:34:50
It's a little far removed, right? We have HC as a buffer and 6:50 and it doesn't feel as integrated and so that was kind of. 00:34:52
A concession on our side. 00:34:59
This seems to be what the community wants and needs. Let's find a solution. 00:35:02
And we put it here rather than trying to integrate it up into the main development area. So they'll be kind of a pocket park there 00:35:06
along Geneva Trail as long as as well as the Apocrypha parks here. So you know you'll have a park here, you'll have a park down 00:35:12
here and then of course you'll have all access to. All right, if I could just kind of add. 00:35:17
The city is working with you dot. We would really love to see a multi use trail on our side of Geneva Rd. when they do the 00:35:23
expansion and and especially with the governors new stance that basically all you dot projects need to include active 00:35:29
transportation. We think there's a very good likelihood of of us achieving that. So if we get a regional trail that essentially 00:35:36
will connect down through you know the southern part of Geneva Rd. that connects into the Lakeview Trail, I mean that could be one 00:35:42
really nice regional trail. 00:35:48
So the thought was like as as you enter this part of Vineyard, it creates a series of pocket parks. 00:35:55
Pop off and being apart also you have a lot of residential there and that creates a nice corridor of open space. You know it's 00:36:36
next to the highway but if with all that open space it provides opportunities for the trees and some buffering. So we we are 00:36:42
pretty excited about it. The other question I had is just looking at the map you have exhibit. 00:36:48
The East Gateway park. 00:36:56
Currently looks like the train track would run right down the middle of that. 00:36:58
Where does the train lie in that park currently? 00:37:03
That'd be great amenity, right? 00:37:06
I'm just curious right now where that is. 00:37:10
Yeah, there's a canal there today and then there's train tracks, but I believe what? 00:37:13
What the city is working to do. 00:37:19
Be able to abandon those tracks and Morgan or somebody else, maybe you'll speak to the better. That's where the Geneva trail will 00:37:22
go. Then we'll add additional buffer next to that. 00:37:26
Along this. 00:37:31
So. 00:37:32
What was the tracks? What was the canal? Well, I think the canal is currently owned by flagship. 00:37:33
And we could potentially acquire that. 00:37:38
You'll have the canal on the tracks and then whatever additional 50 feet that we offer all kind of as a as a linear trail right 00:37:41
there on the East East Gateway. And I believe correct if I'm if I'm wrong on this Steve or Jeff but I think what you guys are 00:37:47
showing right here it isn't that your property like the like the so the railroad tracks are landing just. 00:37:54
East of that or is that, is that part of the rail corridor? This exhibit is going out into the road, yeah. 00:38:01
For survey, OK, so is the one is the 1.2 acres land you guys currently own or it is I don't know that graphic represents it well, 00:38:11
but the way the development agreement? 00:38:16
Described it as that building will be set. 00:38:23
50 feet from our our land or if. 00:38:25
Guarantees 50 feet of buffer between our land and the building. 00:38:33
OK, so from your property line to the building line, that's right. 00:38:37
At the narrowest point, I should say, right? So that's here. And then of course it would grow if that building remains angled like 00:38:43
that. 00:38:46
The idea with the development agreement is, you know, that was one of Morgan's comments is we need to know what kind of changes 00:38:51
are acceptable and for us. 00:38:55
It's 1.2 acres, right? And so this the size of that might change, I mean not the size, but the shape of this building might 00:39:01
change. 00:39:04
But in the end, it's going to be 1.2 acres, right? That's that's what we're trying to guarantee in the development agreement, if 00:39:08
that makes sense. 00:39:11
This is a random question, but do we know does U dot? 00:39:21
All the space they would need to widen Geneva. 00:39:26
I have had discussions. 00:39:31
Because right now they own all that space and then they also have the first right on a little 45 foot narrow strip that flag 00:39:34
Flagship Homes still owns. 00:39:37
And I do have emails and correspondence with you that saying that they will not need that additional 45 feet, right, which is kind 00:39:42
of where that canal is today. 00:39:46
Just thinking ahead, yeah, no, I'm just thinking ahead of like if we set up 50 feet and then five years from now UDOT comes and 00:39:50
they purchase. 00:39:54
You know half of that for whatever they need to expand on, So I know. 00:39:59
Necessarily read the future, but just. 00:40:04
Any other questions before we kind of address? 00:40:11
What else? We heard from last meeting and address some of those things. 00:40:14
I don't think you can continue. 00:40:17
We'll get to you guys in just in a little bit. 00:40:21
So from the November 17th, you know these are some of the favorable things we heard and comments to be addressed parks and open 00:40:26
space. 00:40:29
Adequate for the residential scale. I think that's what you just referred to, Commissioner. 00:40:32
Affordable housing for first responders, parking infrastructure, and then just, you know, there was. 00:40:38
Comments about, you know, 1500 residential units. Is that appropriate? We've just kind of left that open I think for some 00:40:44
discussion today. 00:40:47
We're, you know, certainly willing to commit to some numbers as needed, but anything to add? 00:40:51
Yeah. 00:40:57
So we just covered the open space. 00:40:59
And the one acre park that we offered down here. 00:41:03
As a concession to be able to provide more. 00:41:09
Affordable housing. 00:41:13
This is what we talked to the City Council. This is a slide that we. 00:41:16
With them last week, we looked at affordable housing. 00:41:20
And how? You know, the federal government and HUD defines affordable housing. They define it as no more than 30% of your household 00:41:24
income goes toward housing and utilities. 00:41:28
And so if you look at what the HUD? 00:41:33
Income is for the provoir areas, $96,000 and you start to take 30% of that and it eventually builds this table that we've 00:41:36
confirmed with. 00:41:40
Both the Utah Housing Authority and some other affordable housing consultants. 00:41:45
And so. 00:41:49
The area median income at 100% says this is how much people can pay for rents and at 60% this is how much people can pay for rents 00:41:50
for the different bedroom sizes. 00:41:54
In our analysis we found that Vineyard has 1500 plus units in the in the you know 70 to 80% range. You know based on what just 00:42:00
already being charged in the market by HUD standards. 00:42:05
Again, we're using HUD standards as a standard. I don't know that feels affordable to everybody, but that feels right to 00:42:11
everybody. 00:42:13
But it is the way the federal government administered affordable housing and. 00:42:17
And how we proposed it. So we looked knowing that there was kind of this niche need of first responders and. 00:42:21
How do we track those and keep them here and what are their salaries? And then if we take that and we'd say what's 30% of that 00:42:27
income, what kind of rent can they pay and if you can compare these affordable rents back to the table. 00:42:32
You start to say assuming that there's a single income in that household. 00:42:38
You know, it's 60% AMI. They can start to afford a one to two-bedroom apartment and so 60% AMI starts to say this is what we 00:42:42
really need to target, not 80% AMI. 00:42:47
And so with that, we looked at the value that that concession would be. 00:42:54
Which is about $5 million of value to offer 25 units at 60% AMI. 00:42:59
And we've got legal right now our legal and looking at it the 2nd, we actually put a first right on that for first responders, 00:43:05
right so. 00:43:09
When a unit comes available, if there's a first responder on there, they have first right to be able to take it as I mean they 00:43:13
meet all the other qualifications needed in order to take the housing and then potentially a second right. 00:43:19
For teachers. 00:43:24
So. 00:43:26
Well, so some other options that we put together on affordable housing, that'll be a new slide that we bring into you. But I'll 00:43:28
just note that this doesn't include any RDA funds. 00:43:33
That can also be allocated to affordable housing. So 10% of the increment that goes to the RDA is allocated for affordable housing 00:43:39
and that can also be added. 00:43:43
To the overall affordable housing that can go into the project. 00:43:48
So what we looked at is what else can we do to add additional affordable housing? 00:43:56
We know what the concession is here is in terms of total value. 00:44:02
And what can we do to add it and so? 00:44:07
Tries to repres. 00:44:09
Some different options. 00:44:11
If we stay within 60% AMI, how many units can we add? This is the 25. 00:44:13
And we can add that with structured parking, right. So structured parking adds. 00:44:19
And yet our rents will still be the same and so that starts. 00:44:23
Kind of take away from how much affordable or at least every affordable unit that that we bring to the table cost more, right, 00:44:27
because of the structured parking, because structured parking is going to add $40,000 unit. 00:44:32
For 1 1/2. 00:44:37
Without structured parking, if we were to eliminate that altogether and say take that out economically, it's the equivalent of 00:44:39
adding 45 units. 00:44:43
We wondered if we can take a section of. 00:44:48
Parcel and say can we remove the structured parking, let's say it's behind the lot behind the theater and remove the structured 00:44:52
parking for that area so we can increase the. 00:44:57
Affordable housing. 00:45:02
And you know if we were to add 25 or 30 affordable. 00:45:03
Units back there and then provide the rest of the main development. We could potentially add 36. 00:45:07
RDA would then fund some additional and then a 1300 total dwelling units. We could get you know something in these ranges. 00:45:13
If we were to say 70% is adequate. 00:45:20
Same kind of logic we could start to get. 00:45:23
Higher. And then if we were to increase and stay at 1500 dwelling units, which again we'll have a discussion about, I think some 00:45:28
additional can be added just for the economic benefit there as well as the TIF that could bring an additional. 00:45:33
For for the added valuation that would come. 00:45:39
So I'll pause there. Any thoughts, comments around? 00:45:42
A starting point for the discussion because we have a lot of people that work for the city, first responders, teachers and they 00:46:16
can't afford to live there. So that's a lot to get these people to be able to live in Vineyard. So and I believe this is something 00:46:21
that the RDA board is, is is going to discuss and then consider. 00:46:27
So from my understanding, all of these units would be rental units. 00:46:38
None of them would be able to purchase. 00:46:42
I'd say I don't. I don't want to set that in stone. 00:46:45
OK, I just say that. 00:46:50
If people are going to be invested in Vineyard, they want to live here. Paramedics, doctors, aunties and such. 00:46:54
They're gonna want to buy a home. They're gonna. 00:47:00
Have a permanent residence instead of renting. 00:47:03
Hoping that your rent doesn't get raised, which it? 00:47:07
And then it'll get raised and then I'll get raised, and then it becomes unaffordable. 00:47:09
I was just said these will be deed restricted, so they'll always be tied to the area median income. 00:47:14
I'd like to see units that people could purchase to buy. I want to see people that are invested in the city that they want to come 00:47:25
here, they want to stay here, they want, they care about the place, and the easiest way for someone to feel invested is to 00:47:30
actually invest in buying a home here. 00:47:34
Yeah, condominiums, apartments that you can purchase, things like that. 00:47:41
If it's just rentals, it's basically you're just saying, oh, these people are going to be here for a little while until they move 00:47:45
into something that's better. 00:47:49
I want. 00:47:56
I want to say unison people can purchase so that they feel invested in the city. Does this agreement preclude the ability to do. 00:47:57
No it doesn't. No. Yeah. And Bryce do you do you have kind of like a maybe are you just wanting them to to to come back with with 00:48:04
maybe a proposal on that or do you have some maybe some direction as far as. 00:48:10
As far as. 00:48:21
As far as doing something like that, what What is? What can we even do? Because if if it's units, it can be. 00:48:23
Sold. And investors can just buy the units and then rent them still, I mean. 00:48:30
I'll just say I don't, we're not opposed to for sale. I just think it's going to take some market analysis and understanding that 00:48:36
at the time that you're going out, how that's going to shake out construction costs and so. 00:48:41
I don't know that what that looks like. I do know that when you go for sale, often it's harder to bring the same number. 00:48:47
As it is on a four month basis, so. 00:48:54
At least in past analysis and I need to analyze it again. But when you start to go for sale that gap. 00:48:58
Of the sale price is harder to overcome in terms of number of units. So economically it's it's not like we can't say necessarily 00:49:03
that we can sell 25 units and have the same economic impact as you know just developer donating 25 four rent. So I had a question 00:49:09
to go along with what you're saying. 00:49:15
Is there? 00:49:23
And since you're kind of in this industry and maybe we need to research it, but if. 00:49:25
A certain amount of the units are required to be for sale. Someone buys it. How do we ensure that? 00:49:31
That it's being occupied by by the owner, Yeah. Because without having like a really large administrative kind of arm that that 00:49:39
can ensure that. I don't know, maybe that's something that from the CCNR standpoint they can do. But we were told that, you know, 00:49:44
at Edgewater. 00:49:49
You know, that or the Lakefront Town Center. I think that was something that the city was told. 00:49:56
That only a third of those would be rentals and they're not everyone you talk to. I mean I I know a few owners there, but it seems 00:50:01
like probably 70 to 80%. You know just then I I don't know for sure, but just everyone I've talked to seems to be renters, but I 00:50:07
don't know Steve or Jeff if you guys have kind of a response to that. But I I think that's. 00:50:13
You know, is there a way that we can ensure that? 00:50:20
That their own rocket? Yeah, that's the big question. Is there a way we can do that? But I think if we're talking affordability. 00:50:23
25 units. That's 1.6% of your total units. 00:50:30
And I mean 25 is more than 0, but I mean it's 1.6% when you're talking about affordability, you're talking about people. 00:50:34
That. 00:50:44
People that can pay for a home. When you're stuck renting continuously forever, you're not. 00:50:47
Gaining any generational wealth, you're not putting yourself in a situation where you're ever going to get out of that constant 00:50:52
struggle of living paycheck to paycheck. Whereas if you can invest in a home, if you can invest in a place, you can start to get 00:50:58
out of that. And there's a whole discussion that. 00:51:03
That we can't get into here about about that but. 00:51:11
I think just. 00:51:15
I think having something finding some way to get some units that can be sold to people and not rented out. If there's anything 00:51:17
that can be done, I don't know. 00:51:21
That would be a huge. That would be a huge draw, I think. 00:51:28
This location specifically. 00:51:32
Because I'm sorry, it has to be in the microphone or? 00:51:38
It's up to. It's up to the chair. I'm just. I apologize, but we. 00:51:46
If you just want to just save it for, I'm going to open up the public comment in just a little bit here. Sorry, but thank you. 00:51:52
Sorry, I'll just forget. 00:51:57
Yeah, all right. What's your name? I'll write down your name, Hector. 00:52:01
Hector agrees with Price. 00:52:05
OK. If you guys have any comments on that? 00:52:09
I think it's AI think it's a great idea. I think we got to go back and study what it means in terms of quantity like I said in 00:52:14
just the economic impact, like I said, we know we're basically donating $5 million of value through the decreased rents in this 00:52:18
25. 00:52:23
We know affordable housing is a hard solution, right? There's easy. People want to figure it out by now. 00:52:28
We spent a lot of time pondering like 25, like is that going to feel, is that, is that going to feel genuine or? 00:52:34
Umm. 00:52:42
But honestly, as we look at it. 00:52:43
Between the structured parking, the open space like between those two we're basically bringing $10 million to the deal right of of 00:52:45
of added quality of of open space and $5 million of that is an affordable housing. 00:52:52
And then we have even after the TIF. 00:52:58
On structured parking. 00:53:01
If you look at the the net present value of that. 00:53:03
It only pays for. 00:53:06
2530% of the structured parking. And so the rest of that gets borne on us and we're going to be competing on rents of other people 00:53:09
who don't have structured parking. 00:53:13
You know Will would be able to charge a little bit more. I don't know. The point is when we looked at it. 00:53:18
We worried about the economic viability of the project as a whole. It's, it's on probably hard to sound genuine on this, but it's 00:53:23
it's on, it's on the margin of what we think will attract investor money to be able to develop it and build it. And so that's why 00:53:28
that number is what it is. We wanted to be able to bring something. We knew there was a niche requirement or need within the 00:53:34
community. We want to be able to address it and be community players. 00:53:39
But that really did kind of feel like a limit where it started to push economic viability of the whole project if we push that too 00:53:45
far, so. 00:53:48
But when you've gotten into these these hybrid environments where it's a mix of management company were a lot of owner ownership 00:54:24
and individually renting them out, you're ending up with people that are are four or five single people in a house. All of them 00:54:30
have a car when they're supposed to be two parking spots. And I think that's the complexity here is if you had 1500 units and they 00:54:37
were all owned which is great, but we know it's going to be investors that buy them, you know it's it's going to be pricey. 00:54:43
And and you're gonna end up with a parking issue. So I think what we're doing here is trying to find that balance. 00:54:50
But we're definitely getting a win I think of of even the affordable housing discussion. So there's there's valid discussion here 00:54:56
of what do we want in the community and how do we balance the parking issue with the rental issue, with the ownership issue and 00:55:02
and I just hope as we give public comments it reflects. 00:55:08
Some of the opportunity we have here, because we're definitely giving a lot back to the developer of. It's a whole different 00:55:14
change from what was originally approved there. But I think there's a willingness on all parties to figure out what can we do 00:55:18
that's best for the community where everybody comes out a winner because the developer owns the property, they have property 00:55:23
rights as well, and we don't want a vacant lot sitting there forever. 00:55:27
I appreciate how seriously you took my request for affordable housing to be added. 00:55:36
I like that. 00:55:41
It will. 00:55:44
They'll be targeted to. 00:55:46
To. 00:55:49
City employees. 00:55:51
Live in the city? That's appreciated. 00:55:53
I guess I would hope that. 00:56:00
Can work with the city to find perhaps some federal funding for more affordable housing. 00:56:04
I'm sitting here as a single mother of four and an 80% AMI. 00:56:10
Is half my income. 00:56:17
Uh. 00:56:21
For a three bedroom place because. 00:56:22
Can you Can you imagine 4 kids in one room not doing it? 00:56:26
No, that's insanity. 00:56:30
As. 00:56:34
We move forward. 00:56:35
I would love to see more consideration. 00:56:37
Of the programs that are. 00:56:41
So that we can expand this to more than just first responders in our city. 00:56:44
Just more than just that. 00:56:49
And I don't know. I think everyone deserves to have a nice place to live. 00:56:51
But it's just me. Could we also add to it though? And I hate to be exclusion, you know, exclude other cities, but I'm sure in the 00:56:55
future we'll have a fire department, we'll we'll have a police force. Is it possible to say that the first option is for those 00:57:01
that not only are first responders but first responders serving? 00:57:07
In the city of Vineyard and then beyond that it would open to others, but I prefer to. 00:57:14
Have the people here that are actually serving in Vineyard, so it sounds like they were they already? Well, no, they they're still 00:57:19
trying to find out if they can make it for firefighters and EMT and stuff in general. So like getting it down even more than that 00:57:24
might be. 00:57:29
I like for Housing Act. 00:57:35
Preliminarily, our legal counsel has said he thinks it's possible, but there's more due diligence to be done on that. So I do want 00:57:38
to make sure that's clear and disclose that we are willing to do it so long as it's legal. And if approved from the City side, 00:57:44
we're definitely going to like let our officers go. And you know, we don't have our own fire department, but we contract with the 00:57:49
ARM City and so. 00:57:54
Yeah, yeah. I mean there's there's a time that we may. So I I think, I think you're right, it'd be great to have our folks. But 00:58:01
you know, I think that might be on the city's city end by trying to let our employees and people that work in the city now. And we 00:58:06
have met with affordable housing consultants on how could we further expand it. 00:58:11
One of the challenges, there's something called a qualified census district and unfortunately this land is not in it. 00:58:17
Highly discounts what those tax credits can be. 00:58:23
And then you again, you add on the parking structure, it really becomes a challenge economically for a developer to come in and do 00:58:29
that. If we were in the qualified census district district, I think maybe there would be a clearer way to make that happen. 00:58:36
But we're not. 00:58:43
Thank you. 00:58:45
OK. Parking, we kind of already talked about it. Right now zoning requires 1 1/2 spaces per dwelling unit and there was concern, 00:58:50
is that going to be enough? 00:58:53
What we're proposing is not necessarily to solve all that, but for you to tell us what the primary concerns are. 00:58:57
And we brought. 00:59:03
And then in the development agreement bind us to bring a management plan that addresses those concerns and those objectives, so. 00:59:05
Our plan is going to come with every site plan that we submit. We'll say this is the parking plan, right? Or at least it's got to 00:59:11
be compliant with the parking plan that was submitted. 00:59:16
And. 00:59:20
We'll address things like permitting right? If if we if we only have this many parks installed, we can't issue more permits than 00:59:22
that. How is monitoring enforcement going to work? How's the visitor parking designation on the garage going to work? 00:59:27
And you know, as we submit a site plan, you always have to say this is the. 00:59:33
This is how we meet. 00:59:38
Right. And then we'll have this additional layer to also meet the parking plan. 00:59:40
Right. We will have street parking as well along the streets. 00:59:44
I will just note. 00:59:48
In its full built out state. 00:59:50
You know, again, our plan is to have office here. That office is all going to vacate. So my visitor, perspective and others. 00:59:53
Right. There's some shared parking that overlaps, but there's still going to be excess parking in the evening. So a lot of the 00:59:58
concern, I think that's happened a lot of places is evenings. 01:00:02
And I think we. 01:00:06
We'll have extra. 01:00:08
Something that we're doing with the downtown area and is also something that I'd like to see here. 01:00:13
First off, let me just say with some other developments that have come in, they've made big promises on management for parking 01:00:19
and. 01:00:23
And then they have just bounced, they've left and then HOA gets that is there, is stuck with it and they don't even have an idea 01:00:28
of what they, the management promised and it's just been a nightmare for some of these developments that have gone in recently. 01:00:34
With the downtown while we're doing a thing where basically. 01:00:42
They can build X amount of units and then after that happens a parking study is done by an independent contractor and then. 01:00:46
They assess if more or less parking needs to be done for development. So I think that that is definitely something that we would 01:00:54
want to do. That's that's the kind of input we're hoping we could put into this plan. 01:01:00
And then bind it and record it with the development agreement. 01:01:06
Perfect. 01:01:11
And we could. 01:01:12
If you want that, that's something that. 01:01:14
From a staff side, we can look at maybe what a number I might look at, OK. But I love that suggestion because again it would give 01:01:16
you real site conditions. So if it's 200 units or whatever you study that you know, OK, those 200 units are requiring. 01:01:23
You know, two spaces per unit or three spaces per unit and then that would automatically adjust the parking code, move forward. I 01:01:31
think what that also does is it puts a lot of responsibility on the developer that they manage the parking. 01:01:37
Very efficiently, right at the front end. And that's what we've found kind of like Chris brought up is the the developers that 01:01:44
have managed parking. 01:01:47
Early on I've been a lot more successful. We have had others that had to catch up and it took several years like the alloy and the 01:01:51
concord, but they're now they're actually doing fairly well. They're probably still some issues, but it's way less than what it 01:01:57
used to be. So management is, is key, but that's something we can work on if you'd like. I think it's a fair ***. 01:02:02
We don't need to keep perpetuating a problem. 01:02:10
But I think last time it was brought up like people are starting to, you know. 01:02:14
With a 2 bedroom apartment starting to get four cars right because housing prices are driving up and people are starting to bunk 01:02:19
up a little bit more and again I think the parking permit. 01:02:23
Would mitigate a lot of that as well, that two-bedroom. 01:02:28
Two parking passes? Done. 01:02:31
So. 01:02:34
I guess going off of parking one of my big concerns. 01:02:35
Is transportation in general. We have the downtown plan that's come in and they've got the. 01:02:39
Bus transit. They are right next to the track station. 01:02:45
But here, there's no rapid transit, there's no bus station there, There's not even a sidewalk that goes to the current train 01:02:50
station now. 01:02:54
And that's a big concern for me. 01:02:59
This wants to be a walkable area. 01:03:04
Getting on public transport is difficult. I know that's something that's out of your guys's hands, but. 01:03:07
It just needs to be said that that's a big concern. 01:03:13
If we can support any way of pedestrian walkway through, I would always love to EU campus and then walk over would be be 01:03:16
brilliant, but we would support that in any way that we can. But. 01:03:21
To me the right well we're coming to you is saying can we, can we change the use from what it was. 01:03:28
To what we're proposing. 01:03:35
And we've shared with Morgan today the traffic impact study that was shared and and their basic conclusion is. 01:03:37
Versus the current entitlement. 01:03:43
The traffic impact is less, right if we were to build out the 1.8 million square feet with 1.1 being office. 01:03:46
In 1000 square feet you have, you know, four to five workers. Each of those have a car and 1000 square foot apartment. 01:03:52
You know you got two cars and, and the dispersion of those trips are quite a bit different. It's not 8 to 5, everybody leaves at 01:03:58
5:00. So the the impact of the level of service on certain intersections is actually reduced. 01:04:03
By adding the residential versus, you know, a heavier office use. 01:04:09
And. 01:04:14
You know, vineyards, the traffic's not going to be solved easy and there's lots of mitigations outlined in the in the traffic 01:04:15
impact study. But overall, what we're proposing is actually a benefit to traffic versus the current entitlement, if that makes 01:04:20
sense. 01:04:24
That probably won't make any sense to anybody waiting 5 minutes to get through you know the connections and get the trailer 01:04:30
section. 01:04:32
But that's. 01:04:35
So that's what the engineer came back. And yeah, I understand that it makes sense. 01:04:37
With if there's a bunch of office space, everybody leaves at the same time, it's crowded. 01:04:43
But also with the amount of residential units and the lack of office space in Vineyard, they're going different directions at 01:04:48
different times. 01:04:52
So if there was a bunch of office space and a bunch of retail and whatever. 01:04:55
People would be coming into vineyard while the people that are in vineyard that work outside of vineyard would be leaving 01:05:00
vineyard. 01:05:02
And. 01:05:07
Maybe. 01:05:07
That's addressed in the study that you guys did? 01:05:08
Right. 01:05:13
I can't see how it would send. The flows are different, yeah, the flows are different directions. 01:05:15
If if it's a higher mix, like more square footage of office, then you would get more capture of trips. As far as like multiple 01:05:23
trips, maybe someone parks. 01:05:27
Or or they're they're close enough so that so they walk and so that's a trip that's that's captured they're having to. So not 01:05:33
necessarily not what I'm saying is that. 01:05:38
The trips. 01:05:46
Going out versus the trips that are coming in the. 01:05:48
Times that are difficult to get into Vineyard. 01:05:51
5:00 and the biggest time to get out of Vineyard is 8:00. 01:05:54
And it would just be the opposite, that people are coming in at 8:00 instead of going out and when people are leaving. 01:05:59
At 5:00 instead of coming in. So it's just the traffic is going different directions. There's more traffic, but it's. 01:06:08
We would need our traffic engineer to answer that for sure, and why, why they came to the conclusion they did. 01:06:14
Just knowing that more people are leaving means the light can't be green for all those that are coming as much, right? Like I 01:06:20
don't know how that math shakes out exactly. I think your your questions really really good, but. 01:06:24
Just knowing that you got to push more people through it means this green lights got to be open longer to let the office people 01:06:29
out. Probably still has an impact, but I don't know how that shakes out. Yeah, I'd be interested to know kind of if if you could 01:06:33
ask them. 01:06:37
Get your comments like organized if you can. 01:07:11
It's, it's great. I'm excited that you guys all have comments and that is great. 01:07:15
But if. 01:07:20
Direct you can be the easier it is for us. We're going to try to write down questions that you have. We're not going to do a whole 01:07:22
lot of back and forth. We're going to ask questions and go from there. 01:07:26
If you could try to keep it within 3 minutes, that would be super helpful. So yeah, state your name and yeah. 01:07:32
My name, Hector Hernandez. I live here in the city of Vineyard, obviously. 01:07:39
Everybody who knows me knows that. 01:07:43
I'm a parking guy. Parking is a nightmare. 01:07:46
I lived in a city, obviously in on the East Coast. 01:07:52
We didn't do any building out there unless parking was taken care of 100%. 01:07:56
We've. 01:08:03
Because of the amount of high density in Vineyard and where we live, I live in the springs right next to the preserve, the other 01:08:08
gentleman who was here from the preserve. 01:08:13
And a nightmare. The HOA and the UP are against all the residents. We're at the mercy of them. I have a personal experience in our 01:08:18
new city manager can testify as to what I had, but I don't have time to go into that now. But. 01:08:28
I work in the city, I have clients throughout all the city, and I don't know of anybody that I've met in five years that want any 01:08:41
more high density. Of course, I'm not against. 01:08:48
Improvement. Growth. Some high densities. 01:08:54
Necessary, but we have too much already. 01:08:58
This plan looks very beautiful and we and we thank you guys for the seven years on the East Coast it took 20 years to get to. 01:09:02
Brand new parking. 01:09:12
Parking station and station from Trenton to the city of Manhattan took 20 years from concept to to final. You know, final. 01:09:15
Parking. 01:09:26
And station. 01:09:27
My other comment Bryce, I've been thinking of selling my house in the springs to buy a higher end apartment building in the either 01:09:31
the the the Town Center. 01:09:37
Or even here, but in under this option I don't have that option to actually buy. 01:09:44
I've seen the difference between owner, occupied. 01:09:49
And rentals. And the difference is huge. It's a big issue here, parking. 01:09:53
Um. 01:10:00
I got towed the other day. Not me personally. My family got towed. Who was moving out of town. 01:10:02
We got up to where I was picking up EU Haul truck with their car behind it and there was a boot I had to break the boot off. 01:10:08
I called the towing company right away. I told him, Hey, I'm sorry, I know I did this wrong, but I'll pay for the boot and I had 01:10:18
to go through a whole struggle. 01:10:23
To stop the UPE. 01:10:31
From threatening me that I was under criminal action, I had sent a letter to our H. 01:10:36
I had put my permit in the windshield. 01:10:45
None of that worked, so my issue is with parking obviously. 01:10:48
If you could just be brief on other things. 01:10:54
I guess my my my main thought is that. 01:10:59
Nobody that I know really wants. 01:11:03
Anymore high density some is necessary. 01:11:06
Obviously. 01:11:10
The city and a lot of the residents are very, very upset at the city. 01:11:12
Whether it's the Planning Commission, the City Council, the mayor. 01:11:18
Some of the people who work in there that they continue to go high density, high density, high density. 01:11:23
I know in the Town Center and I don't know the specifics, the builder has the option to go from 20% residential up to as much as 01:11:29
80%. 01:11:34
Those numbers can be challenged I'm sure, but it's somewhere in the in the contract there that in the end our Town Center could 01:11:40
end up being 80% residential. 01:11:45
Very little stores. So we want progress. We want you know to go forward at a higher at a higher rate, faster with retail and 01:11:51
commercial. 01:11:57
We have issues. Thank you, Hector. 01:12:06
Hi everybody. David Wright, Holloway Rd. 01:12:21
Long time no see. 01:12:24
Hey I want to make some comments on this moment. I've tried to organize a little bit but it be a little scattered sorry parking. 01:12:27
You know, as you've heard, it's the biggest deal. 01:12:37
It's really insane to calculate to expect people to have one point $5 per unit. The worst parking problems we have right now are 01:12:40
in Edgewater. 01:12:45
And they planned 1.1. 01:12:49
And that's just and people actually have to go out and park in Fields. 01:12:52
You know, half mile away and walk. 01:12:56
It's not workable. 01:12:59
Understand that we live in a university town. 01:13:01
You say where is it? Was Utah Valley University they own at. Probably a third of the land is still available for development right 01:13:05
now. 01:13:08
And it's going to get built. 01:13:12
Plus, we already have plenty of students. 01:13:15
We've had problems already because we've talked about that already. You'll have an investor buying a unit and then rent it out to 01:13:18
students. 01:13:21
And the investors out of state doesn't care. He's got 3 bedrooms. OK, that's six. That's six students. That's income. 01:13:25
Just like you're trying to figure out what will be. 01:13:32
Make himself money. 01:13:36
And he's going to pack it like crazy, just like you're doing here. 01:13:38
Wrong. 01:13:43
1.45 dollars is not enough. 01:13:44
You got a plan for the fact that if not right now. 01:13:47
At least in 10 years. 01:13:51
That's going to be student. 01:13:52
So make the adjustment now if you can please. 01:13:56
Hopefully you won't have to. Hopefully you won't build. 01:13:59
If you really want to help. 01:14:01
You'll give us some commercials and. 01:14:03
For heaven's sake, a grocery store will be nice. 01:14:06
That's what Vineyard needs. I know you need money and you need to build to get it. I get it. And the way to get you the fastest 01:14:09
money is to put people there. 01:14:13
But that's not what the town. 01:14:18
So be aware of that. That's a that's a large large. 01:14:22
Man, that's going around. 01:14:28
So, Mary, quite welcome. 01:14:31
Urban wall that works the wall in the yard. 01:14:37
You know, so everyone uses the back door of all the businesses. 01:14:41
Because the parking lots got behind and they build the front doors along the narrow St. with a few little parking stalls for 01:14:44
looks. 01:14:48
And everyone comes in the back door. 01:14:52
It's just I mean it just doesn't work. 01:14:54
I know the kind of the concept was well, we want to be a walkable city and make us less the front door, but no one walks here in 01:14:57
the winter, which is 6 months out of the year. 01:15:01
And very few people walk the rest of time of year because most of the people live here are young families. 01:15:05
What Mom wants to unbuckle her three? 01:15:12
And and grab them, you know, through the parking lot everywhere else, you know, to go shopping here. 01:15:15
People will go to businesses where it's convenient for them. 01:15:21
If we make it in the. 01:15:25
They'll go somewhere else and we lose those tax dollars. 01:15:27
So it's important for us to try to make things convenient for the people who do live here. 01:15:33
Who actually want to stay? 01:15:37
Who actually invest in the town like Bryce talked about? 01:15:39
And actually want to stay here and make it better. 01:15:43
So. 01:15:49
We gotta find a way to do that, and this isn't. 01:15:52
So why residential at all? 01:15:56
There's at least 3500 units in that same general area. 01:15:59
They're only there. 01:16:03
I mean, yeah, much started alloy down there, they got 600 units, you're off the side and so forth they go 606 hundred 300. 01:16:06
You add them all up. 01:16:13
Edgewater and so forth. There are thousands of units right there already. 01:16:15
And they were all built to be. 01:16:21
Low cost UN. 01:16:23
They're going to be, you know, introductory places where families will start to be their first home if they could either buy a 01:16:25
condo or rent for a while. 01:16:28
Why don't those work? 01:16:33
The same thing will happen here. You'll be able to find product. 01:16:37
And within a year or two, it was like the others. 01:16:40
Make your last comments real brief, David. Thank you. 01:16:46
Those 25 affordable units. 01:16:51
Well, my great student housing goodness, don't you think? 01:16:53
Thanks, David. 01:16:57
Hello, thank you. My name is Daria Evans and I am a resident of Vineyard. 01:17:10
And I have some questions that I would like to have answered. I'll write down your questions and then I'll. 01:17:15
When he was doing his presentation, he mentioned retail. I would like to know what kind of retail that is. 01:17:25
I would like to know where the possible public safety building would be going and what it would. 01:17:34
Entail. 01:17:40
This the Central Shared St. 01:17:43
I would like to know how they how FedEx, UPS, RC, Willey trucks. 01:17:48
Get access to these people who live. 01:17:55
To drop their packages off or, you know, deliver. 01:17:59
Are those streets really wide enough? Especially if it's a shared street? When you have residents or people walking along, it's 01:18:02
only four miles an hour. How? How is that going to work? 01:18:07
Can you guarantee you're talking about? 01:18:14
People coming to live there, can you guarantee that first responders, EMT's, these kind of people are really going to want to live 01:18:17
here? 01:18:21
Umm. 01:18:26
How many one bedroom, 2 bedroom, 3 bedroom units are you planning on? I'd like to know that. 01:18:27
And the parking structured. 01:18:34
Several levels. 01:18:39
And how many stalls will be? 01:18:41
Or is it going to be a street side with a cover over it? 01:18:44
I'd like to know what that all entails. I really want to see the aesthetics of it. 01:18:49
And they mentioned a possible hotel in the first. 01:18:56
I'd like to know what is the draw for the hotel at this time when we have hotels just on by Winco Maverick for there. 01:19:00
And. 01:19:09
The Planning Commission meeting on January 4th. 01:19:14
Page 12190. 01:19:18
15.3 point 6.030 point 1/2 is talking about views. 01:19:20
It says due to the community quality and character created by the scenic beauty, it is essential that the city and all 01:19:27
subdivisions and site plans. 01:19:32
Designs preserve general access to significant views. These views include Mount Timpanogos, Provo Canyon, West Mountain, Utah 01:19:37
Lake. 01:19:41
Heights need to be well below a maximum permitted height. So that's my next question. What is the maximum height you're planning 01:19:47
to build these? 01:19:51
Structures. 01:19:55
And will it comply? And will this continue? 01:19:58
Will this be in? 01:20:01
Future subdivisions. Will that continue on? Those are my questions. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. 01:20:03
3 seconds. 01:20:13
My name is Don Olverson. I live on Pintail. 01:20:20
I. 01:20:23
Couple statements in. 01:20:26
Number one, in my previous life we were designing the expansion of Geneva Rd. 01:20:28
UDOT said they would only. 01:20:35
The railroad. 01:20:38
Nothing past the rail record or? 01:20:40
That question you had about whether or not? 01:20:43
And that did include a trail. 01:20:45
So that's all part of. 01:20:47
Original plan now whether they? 01:20:49
Redesign. 01:20:51
Either right or there. 01:20:53
The question I had was. 01:20:56
If you would go to surface parking, how many units could you get? 01:20:59
In your area without ever putting. 01:21:03
Parking structures in there. 01:21:11
Is that? 01:21:15
I know that you're saying that you need. 01:21:16
You know, if you had surface parking, then you wouldn't. 01:21:19
Add the additional. 01:21:23
But I want to know how many units you could actually do there. 01:21:26
OK. 01:21:29
And the third. 01:21:30
Are we changing the zoning ordinance? 01:21:34
Agreeing to the development agreement. 01:21:39
Because the zoning ordinance is what basically says one third 2/3. 01:21:42
I wasn't sure of that. 01:21:48
So, So Jan a development agreement changed the zoning ordinance or do you have to go through a zoning process? 01:21:51
So. 01:21:59
Putting the cart before the horse here, sorry. 01:22:01
All right. Thank you, Don. 01:22:04
Comments from the public. 01:22:12
All right. 01:22:17
Get into asking these questions then. 01:22:19
Starting I guess just with don't questions as far as surface parking, how many units would you guys be able to do it? Like where 01:22:23
would you guys be at if you didn't have to do the parking structures? 01:22:28
How would this plan change I guess? 01:22:34
Well, that's a good question. 01:22:46
20. 01:22:49
I mean, again, it gets back to the residential mix, but I guess I'll just give some metrics out there like. 01:22:53
25 to 30 maybe if you go 4 store maybe you can get a little bit more units per acre. It's kind of a common for garden style walk 01:22:59
up. 01:23:03
Right. We said there's 21 acres of development pads used to make it. Do the math on that, but. 01:23:08
I mean, if the structured parking requirement would be removed, the character of the whole development could be quite different. 01:23:14
You know, there was a discussion of. 01:23:21
We could bring grocery if if that was removed it's hard in this urban environment to attract them in the same way. So it's it's 01:23:23
it's a different story. We've always assumed in in in working with staff that the structured parking. 01:23:29
Is is going to? 01:23:36
So we haven't studied it in depth. 01:23:39
I guess a question for staff that would kind of. 01:23:43
Coming off of that is. 01:23:46
Why? Why do we want the surface parking? Or why do we not want surface parking? And we want the structures and the highest and 01:23:49
best use. Remember when this zone was created, it was to be an activity zone. 01:23:54
A an economic development area for the city and it was intended to be urban mixed uses. You create that sense of place by by 01:24:00
densifying uses together by doing surface parking like if you look a lot of shopping centers those are just automobile type 01:24:06
centers where that you're going to drive to when you have building set very far back with the field of parking Also from an 01:24:12
environmental standpoint there's tons of runoff. Those are things that that that you can treat but overall you do get a much 01:24:19
better. 01:24:25
Product in terms of the value for land highest investigators. It's also how you achieve walkability is you mix uses together and 01:24:31
you can do that way more effectively with structured parking than you can surface parking. Surface parking spreads everything. 01:24:39
So. 01:24:46
OK. Thanks and then. 01:24:48
Are we changing the zoning ordinance as no. The development agreement allows allows the city to basically use the zoning warrants 01:24:50
as the baseline but then it allows you to to to fine tune and to agree to things above and beyond the the the zoning code. That's 01:24:56
why during the. 01:25:01
You know there are RMU code. When we did the additional units, we put down the code but we didn't need to. I mean you can do the 01:25:08
development agreement is kind of the the layered agreement on top of the zoning that allows the the the City Council to to to 01:25:14
negotiate. 01:25:19
You know details of prop projects. And so yeah, this is something we did have our attorney Jamie a blank so you can look at and he 01:25:26
felt that his owning that a development agreement was was sufficient. 01:25:31
And then going to Daria's questions, what retail do you guys expect in an area? 01:25:38
It's going to. 01:25:46
Market driven to some extent, right. The the purpose of this is to outline a master plan not right, not a lot of those questions 01:25:47
were site plan. We will come back with site plans. They'll have many of the details that were asked on that but. 01:25:53
You know, we see dining, we see seated dining around the central Plaza. 01:26:00
We. 01:26:05
We've really worked hard, like I said, to attract a grocer with the structured parking. We're having some challenges, but we're 01:26:07
we're still in pursuit of that. 01:26:11
Jeff, feel free to add in but. 01:26:17
Some some fitness would be great on that ground floor dining, small retail. 01:26:20
You know, we we see people going to the movie and coming over to the forge and and you know, dining, eating desserts, those kind 01:26:27
of things. 01:26:30
Quick question on the grocer. 01:26:34
Is it possible if you guys were to bring in a grocer that we could put something in that says that they don't have to use 01:26:39
structured parsing the structured parking for a grocery store? 01:26:44
Because I think that. 01:26:49
That just having a grocery store period would be a huge. 01:26:51
Right. They would start to meet the requirements for the setbacks and, you know, coming up to up to the street. 01:26:55
The the grocer that they they may be talking about. I've talked to them about this, the same site. 01:27:03
And they they want a suburban grocery store fill the park in the front. There are others that that we're working with that are 01:27:09
very interested in the city that that are willing to do more of an urban mixed-use site. 01:27:16
And so that's you know so it some of them are willing to do it and others they have their their kind of the more suburban template 01:27:23
that they that they don't really want to move off from. Is it possible to put something in this that would allow for a? 01:27:30
So if they're willing to follow kind of those design considerations, I think you definitely could do surface parking. If they're 01:28:12
willing to do it this, this amount of surface parking that we did ask for, I think it does outline that development agreement that 01:28:18
along this corner there could be some surface parking was intended to attract a grocer. 01:28:24
OK. Because I think anything we can do? 01:28:32
In this area, anything we can add to this development agreement to attract a grocery? 01:28:34
Something that we would want to do and we're not done in that pursuit. I don't want, I don't want to indicate that it would just 01:28:40
we just hit strike one that's all. Yeah. And the city doesn't have the position of like absolutely no to a grocery store on the 01:28:46
site. I mean if there's, I mean it's one of those things that if they can meet us in the middle like I definitely think that we 01:28:52
would we would do what we could do to attract a grocery store there. But what we don't want is. 01:28:58
You know, just a giant field of parking. I mean there there's other places in the city that we've been pointing developers to. You 01:29:05
do have the bifurcation of the railroad, which makes the overall, you know, customer. 01:29:10
You know, Circle, they're, they're they're kind of where they want to pull 80% of their customers from. It makes it a little bit 01:29:18
more difficult. 01:29:21
So, but yeah, we word that we're. 01:29:26
That's a huge priority for for us when we meet probably. 01:29:29
You know, twice a month I would say with a different group, groceries, we have several that were in constant conversations with 01:29:33
and we've done a lot of mop ups of different sites of how how could look. 01:29:37
And. 01:29:43
The priority and something just to add to that, having a grocery store in this area. 01:29:44
Makes the area so much more walkable for this and for the other places which. 01:29:51
If we're trying to get rockable, we need to get as many of the things that you need. A place that you can work, a place that you 01:29:58
can eat, a place that you can grocery shop and transportation, public transportation are those things that you need for it to be a 01:30:04
truly walkable area and health services. 01:30:09
OK. Next question was a public safety building. I guess to answer that, we're trying to get a fire department of some sort there. 01:30:20
I don't know if we're at the the point where we want to say that the spot, but we definitely are working with them on a spot. I 01:30:25
just I just don't want to say until I mean typically. 01:30:31
You know you don't want to disclose that stuff until you've you've, you know, I mean we're supposed to, but yeah, we're definitely 01:30:36
looking at a site in the in the. 01:30:40
And then trucks on a shared street. I guess to answer that the way a shared St. usually works is. 01:30:45
It's usually a different pavement type and. 01:30:52
You can go there and you can park there. If your car is like still on, they could make drop offs, but it's not a place that you 01:30:56
park, it's a place that you drive 5 mph. It's very. 01:31:01
Uh. 01:31:06
A shared street is you feel uncomfortable driving on it, but if you're making a delivery then it's. 01:31:07
Then and I would just add that the primary delivery points would not be along the third stream, yeah. 01:31:13
Sure you can. Yeah. I'll let you follow up real quick. 01:31:22
You gotta come to the mic. You gotta be the microphone. 01:31:25
Trying to get your steps in for you today. 01:31:30
Sorry, the mic got moved over here. 01:31:34
Here can you handle your mic there? 01:31:36
Thank you. 01:31:42
So. 01:31:44
Just Orient me where would these? 01:31:46
Part to deliver furniture. 01:31:50
Drop off packages, you know. 01:31:53
Grocery items that they have. 01:31:56
You know. 01:31:59
Where do these people do that? How do they access those homes? 01:32:00
The way that this looks, I just yeah, see. 01:32:07
So we're not into the nitty gritty yet of how the buildings are designed and that that's going to play a huge role in in something 01:32:10
like that. If the entrance to a building is in one spot, I'm sure that they would have some kind of parking designated for 01:32:16
something like that, but that's all the nitty gritty stuff that's yeah, I'd say. 01:32:22
Provide freight elevators for people to take up their furniture Again you. 01:32:31
So I'll just add, we're dealing. 01:32:38
And that's when the Planning Commission will look up flow and traffic and then they'll look at like, you know, making sure there's 01:33:14
spots for delivery trucks. OK. Thanks area. Thank you. And then the last question about the hotel. 01:33:20
Yeah, I have. You've got like five more that I'm going to ask still, so. 01:33:25
The guaranteed people, if they want to live there, that's just impossible to say. If if they're awesome, then maybe. But the place 01:33:31
I want to live is different than the place that Anthony wants to live, and it's just going to be different for everybody. I would 01:33:35
want to live in a single family home. Somebody would want to live in an apartment. So it's just hard to say if a paramedic would 01:33:40
want to live in a specific spot. 01:33:45
I do. I want to make a comment on that though, because we do know in Utah there is a, there is a housing shortage. People are are 01:33:50
literally going and applying to multiple apartments. They they definitely can't afford a house. They're trying to get somewhere. 01:33:56
There is a housing housing shortage on the Wasatch Front and we know over the next 20 years it's only going to get worse. 01:34:02
I don't know that. I know what off the top of my head. I don't want to, I don't want to mistaken. They'll probably be an updated 01:34:43
market study before we finalize the site plan that. 01:34:46
That would lock that in, but we'll certainly bring that as part of the site plan for sure. OK. And then I. 01:34:51
To answer your question Daria, about the parking structures, it would be like a wrapped they would wrap the parking structure with 01:34:59
the units like residential units. I don't know if you've seen it like the University Mall. 01:35:04
Where they have a parking structure and then they have units around it. They also have some at UVU where they've done something 01:35:10
similar to that. Is there anything, am I getting that right? 01:35:15
As far as what I understood from you guys and that's the intended topography that we would multifamily. 01:35:20
And then permanent high, currently it's permitted to go up to like 120 feet. 01:35:27
I think even 14140, So this plan was adopted in 2000 and. 01:35:33
15 or 14, yeah. So that plan for the forge got adopted in 2014 or 15 and the height for that was 120 feet. They were expecting to 01:35:39
have large residential units, so. 01:35:45
They could go up to 120 feet, but from the sounds of it though, they're only planning on doing 5, maybe six story. 01:35:52
Like Jeff mentioned earlier, office is probably more likely to go higher than yeah we are kind of pushing from just that you know 01:35:58
so like at that N that northeast corner making that a more prominent ability not necessarily like 14 stories or anything that 01:36:05
having having that that be like a really nice architecture gateway story that has some presence on that corner. 01:36:12
And then just for comparison, how tall are the top go? 01:36:20
I. 01:36:29
Let's pull I think they're 120. 01:36:29
Reference. 01:36:33
Like I live in Cascade and my Rd. looks straight down the top Golf and I mean it doesn't impede my, I think it like I can see up 01:36:35
to like essentially the top foothills of Vineyard and maybe just the start of the foothills of Provo. So if that's if it's that's 01:36:42
actually yeah that's a really good point. I mean that's if that's 120 it's definitely not for anybody that's on the essentially 01:36:49
the residential farther area that's going to be I guess West of this I I highly doubt it would affect. 01:36:56
50 Oh yeah. So it's definitely, even if they've maxed it out, anybody that's on the other side. 01:37:04
It shouldn't have an impact on our views of the mountains. 01:37:12
And then her last comment was the draw for hotel. You guys were saying you want to do that in the first phase? 01:37:16
She was asking what? 01:37:23
And. 01:37:27
I'll just say, I mean we've done some initial studies on it and you know looking at occupancy in the area. 01:37:29
Umm. 01:37:36
You know brings commercial to the area early on and so. 01:37:37
It feels like something would like to do. It's not without its challenges. It'll certainly be easier when it's all built out and 01:37:42
there's Office and all that around it, but. 01:37:45
But based on the occupancy in the market evaluation, you know we hope that we can make that work and then we met with a, just to 01:37:50
add a little more to that, we met with the three different hotel. 01:37:56
Analysts was people in their whole careers studying the viability hotels. 01:38:02
And what they said is Vineyard, is that definitely a good market even though you have hotels around, even just having units in the 01:38:08
more housing units you have generates a need for hotels and people come visit, people remodel, they need a place to stay, the 01:38:14
employment, just having employment they say yeah, you got, we have a very healthy flex office market right now. We're close to 01:38:20
1,000,000 square feet of employment on the north side and no one really considers that part of it, but it is. 01:38:26
And those are doing really well. And so I I'd say like the need, the needs definitely there we've heard, I mean it might be a 01:38:33
matter of like how many keys. 01:38:37
You know that the style and what? What type. 01:38:42
Maybe deter some people from illegally Airbnb being their. 01:39:23
So, so yeah. 01:39:28
OK. Any other questions from you guys right now? 01:39:33
I have a question. So so imagine this was from scratch and you didn't have to do structured parking. What would you view as the 01:39:38
best use? 01:39:43
Because it sounds like a grocer would come more easily want to come in if there was something else being done there, so I'm 01:39:49
interested in know what actually is. 01:39:53
From fresh something else that you would do. 01:39:58
I was going to legit answer that one. There's a loader, you don't have to answer it either. But but I mean I I feel like it was 01:40:04
alluded to that, you know, this may not totally appeal to all grocers there. There may be other things and you've been put in this 01:40:10
direction, but there's a lot of interest here from the public. So what what is it that that could have been on the table? 01:40:16
Well, I guess what I would say from the start we we were to Morgan's Point where we're looking for the highest and best use and we 01:40:22
wanted to create density and. 01:40:27
The city was on board with that and. 01:40:32
So that was really our intent was to create a nice dense urban mixed-use project that would be right at the gateway to the city. 01:40:36
And so I don't think we would change, we knew. 01:40:42
To get these suburban grocers, we knew they wouldn't fit, most likely, and you know, unless we found the right one, we've been 01:40:49
talking to a number of them that are. 01:40:54
The smaller, smaller scale, almost like a hormones come up with small stores and we've been trying to talk to them about it. 01:40:58
So there's still a possibility that could happen as Steve mentioned earlier, we haven't given. 01:41:08
But to get for the one that we've been talking about that was really wants to be in Vineyard. 01:41:13
They. 01:41:20
Hundreds of stalls of service parking and a grocery store in the middle of it and. 01:41:22
We they said if you give us that, we'll come. 01:41:29
And I don't think it's our in our best interest. I don't think it's in the city's best interest in that location. 01:41:32
So we feel good about what this plan is. I don't think we changed it in any way. It it takes some vision and you know scale to 01:41:39
build something like this in Vineyard. If it was suburban development, it would, it would, it would move right like. 01:41:46
No doubt about it, you see it all around us. But this is, this is, this would be something we're proud of, and it'll be special 01:41:54
when it's built for sure. 01:41:57
Do you guys have any other questions for right now? 01:42:05
I just wanted to make a couple comments. 01:42:09
Umm. 01:42:13
You know what people consider density varies, right? But also the appetite for it. You know, we heard from 1 gentleman. 01:42:14
Supportive of it. We've heard from others that aren't, and you're gonna get the whole spectrum. I think we all understand that. 01:42:23
I think in this location it's important to recognize. 01:42:29
You would never expect to see a half acre single single family home on the intersection of. 01:42:33
Geneva Road and 800 NI. Don't think anyone here is expecting that, or advocating for that. Or right next to a movie theater, 01:42:40
anything like that. 01:42:43
So in this area, you know, back from 2015, you know, it was always intended to be a little bit. 01:42:47
Denser of an area. I think the the question that there's two questions in my mind that I think that we need to answer is the 01:42:55
Planning Commission one is. 01:43:00
If this is going to move forward as proposed, what's the best way to do it? 01:43:06
And if it's not going to move forward as proposed, what's what's the best place to utilize this based on the current zoning? So I 01:43:10
think those are really the two questions that are at hand. 01:43:15
And I don't, I don't say this has a slight at all toward mayor, City Council, but also they have their opinions and visions of 01:43:20
what they would like to see. 01:43:25
And what we can do is provide an educated recommendation towards them that hopefully encompasses. 01:43:30
All sides of what the the public is. 01:43:37
And we can make recommendations based on that. However, I also fully acknowledge that they may already have ideas of what they 01:43:40
would like to see here. Not that I'm that they're not open to our recommendations or anybody else's, but that's reality too, is 01:43:45
final decision makers. 01:43:50
Will, will field all the different recommendations from the different bodies, whether it's staff or or the Planning Commission. So 01:43:56
I just wanted to say that here and and think that we need to address probably those two questions. What's the best way to move 01:44:00
forward if it was something like this? 01:44:04
And if it's not this, you know, what's the status quo? Best way to move forward? 01:44:08
We rely, I think on on on community Development Morgan's team to say, yeah, that that this would be appropriate. 1.5 is more than 01:44:44
the 1.1 it sounds like Edgewater had. 01:44:48
It's not going to be. 01:44:54
Recognizing parking could be huge. Maybe it turns out that after you build the first thing as a unit, there's double the amount of 01:45:25
people parking there than we plan. And I mean, based on the cost of structure parking, I mean, it may not even be feasible. I 01:45:31
don't know what the impact would be there, but I think it needs to be very strongly worded. 01:45:36
If it were to move forward in this form, this is how we're accounting for parking. We know it's a huge concern for everyone. 01:45:42
And I think we should listen to it and put very tight controls into that to to hold everyone accountable and and. 01:45:48
Sway on that and just let it go forward without accounting that for that that could be an issue based off I don't think it will be 01:45:55
but based off of history it it it very well could be and we should account the the parking study is is is a really good idea and I 01:46:01
think that's a way to to right size it as because you get on site conditions. 01:46:07
It also would put, I mean if the developers don't want a requirement of like 4 parts installed per unit then they're going to do 01:46:13
their best to manage it and to stay on top of it. And so you get it from kind of both ends right sizing and then it puts a lot 01:46:19
more responsibility on the management and the at the very front end. So if you want I mean that that's that's language that we 01:46:25
could we could we could work on with the the applicants and. 01:46:30
You know, if if you continue, we can come back with that or we could draft something now, but you know, it's up to you. 01:46:37
A couple of questions I have for staff. Do we have any timeline? 01:46:45
For. 01:46:49
Widening of 800 N and the removal of the rails per. 01:46:51
Public works directors engineer, so the widening excuse me the rail spur removal, we currently have it on the timeline side 01:47:00
starting 2024 and and in about 2026 again this is a project that is in coordination with UDOT Federal Railroad Administration and 01:47:07
also Union Pacific on that and. 01:47:14
We're working on coming up with a proper agreement with Union Pacific in terms of conditions. 01:47:22
Of that on 800 N specifically, I know that the widening that. 01:47:29
Is happening which it or you might be referencing is either it's going to be doing some restriping and extending their shoulders 01:47:37
along 800 N which will add some which will add capacity on 800 N on the Venezuelan side. 01:47:44
And you don't have a contract excuse me has the contract out for that and then working on getting a contractor to actually to come 01:47:53
through the work through looking at the next construction season. So how, how are they doing that exactly in essence what on the 01:47:59
with the road, they the road has like a wide node lane they're going to turn those utilize like their fifth plane in order to add 01:48:05
additional Turing warnings but. 01:48:11
The vineyard connector 800 N is going to be extended. 01:48:19
There's going to be an extension project that's but that's over it by the Main Street side of things. Not not necessarily going to 01:48:25
be impacting this particular area except for providing residents of vineyards and other connect connection route to go So what 01:48:32
they can choose to so those residents may choose to utilize that other. 01:48:39
Part of the vineyard. 01:48:47
Going westward around towards the lake instead of going eastward towards Geneva Rd. Geneva Rd. Are there any plans to do double 01:48:49
lanes each two lanes each way? I know that there's plant like we built the bridge for that intent and we're building that other 01:48:57
bridge for the Promenade. Yeah, so vineyard. So the vineyard extension project is going to be it'll be extended vineyard connector 01:49:04
on there and then the UDOT does have another long range plans. 01:49:12
I'm building that out to be double lanes and then of course everything will be widened going eastward. 01:49:20
As well and that to include a white addressing the overpass if you need the 800 N overpass as well, you know I I can't tell you 01:49:27
that there's a set plan in terms of the date because again that's AU dot long range planning on that. So I would I would think 01:49:34
about anywhere from 6 to 8 years. 01:49:41
And then my last question is, is that are there any plans to have any kind of sidewalk or anything? 01:49:50
On that on 800 N between Mill Road and the Oakland Pass. 01:49:57
Short answer, yes. OK. 01:50:02
Is the city doing that or is UVU planning on doing that? So and then Morgan now can speak on this too, but along 800 N? 01:50:06
Improvements along 800 N we you know we work with the dot you know on that in terms of the UDOT has ends also pushing a strong 01:50:15
initiative at the base I think believe it's from the Governor's office in regards to increasing the walkability along Utah roads 01:50:22
because you got understands that it can't keep widening roads that they have to provide. 01:50:29
Other options for people to get people from point A to point B as well. So there they have a big initial they had to do have a big 01:50:36
initiative to. 01:50:39
Push those types of things again just like most government agencies they I know they have their constraints with contracts and 01:50:44
actually were just recently we're working on AETA in terms of getting some things done because they UTA has money to do things but 01:50:49
they don't have. 01:50:54
The avenues to do it and we're we're teaming up with ETA in order to for them to implement ADA upgrades to bus stops because they 01:51:01
have the money, but they don't have the contractors for that. 01:51:07
And then with you dots kind of same way where we can we can take those opportunities to work with developers and UDOT and the city 01:51:14
to get those types of upgrades done in a in a advantageous manner for everyone. So that's a longer answer to your shorter to the 01:51:21
shorter, yes, thank you. Anything else, Sir? No, that's it. Thank you. 01:51:28
I don't know. 01:51:36
All right. So just based off of kind of stuff we've gone over today. 01:51:40
There are some things I definitely want to see. 01:51:48
I want to see the parking plan. How many units with the parking plan? 01:51:52
I want to see any kind of plan or any kind of works that you guys are doing to. 01:52:02
Help get some kind of transportation there, whether it's UTA or anything, some kind. 01:52:07
Even bust out any any of that would be really helpful and we can look at that too. I there is a bus route now on Mill Rd. I don't 01:52:14
know if it has a stop in front of this site or if it's in front of the megaplex, but. 01:52:21
We can research that there's a five year plan study going on right now that they're seeking public input on UTA is and one of them 01:52:28
is about rerouting. 01:52:33
More I think 2 routes through Mill Rd. yeah. 01:52:39
Given the. 01:52:43
Of what we're doing, I mean would certainly design in spaces for those and no concern but. 01:52:44
I mean if you put this this much activity in here not to have UTA like, yeah it would be silly of them not to. 01:52:50
Totally support that, OK. 01:52:58
Sorry, just looking at a couple of my notes and things. 01:53:03
Umm. 01:53:08
Do you guys have an idea on the percentage of commercial versus? 01:53:09
At the end build out, yeah, I know you had the 50% of the ground floor space, but. 01:53:16
I mean. 01:53:23
What we see in the massing diagram. 01:53:28
2/3 residential square footage. So you know, like a million square feet of residential and 500. 01:53:33
1000 square feet of commercial is what you're looking at on. 01:53:38
You know, is that hotel going to be 4 stories or five stories, right? It's hard to say. Is that office building going to be two 01:53:43
stories or three stories or four stories. So I don't know exactly how to answer that. We've again, we've tried to narrow it down 01:53:49
to what we feel like we can control with the market because we feel like we can build something in the market. 01:53:54
Will want at the ground floor. It's just harder on the on the multi story commercial that's why it's hard for me to answer but 01:54:00
what you're seeing there is, is. 01:54:03
You know 500,600 thousand square feet of commercial and a million 1.1 million residential net that feels feels reasonable and good 01:54:08
to us on on feasibility. OK. And then a question for you Morgan, in the downtown plan, are we including internal alleys and shared 01:54:14
streets as open space? 01:54:20
I'd have to look at we so they meet the open space requirement with without including those because they have, they have the 01:54:29
promenades, they have the Geneva Park that hasn't been designed yet, but that would be. 01:54:34
Can drive on it. I have a hard time like if I can't let my 10 year old go. 01:55:12
You do call me right with some curbs and it takes a little bit of winding because you've got a little bump out where there's a 01:55:53
park bench or write something that kind of activates that space. But I'll just say what, what we're proposing here is I think 01:55:57
double zoning requirements. 01:56:02
Even without those, I believe we would we would meet the current zoning, so. 01:56:08
Umm. 01:56:14
Yeah, I would. 01:56:16
I want us and the site plans, I think, right, because the site plan is where that's going to happen. When we submit a site plan, 01:56:18
we have to prove that we're meeting open space. 01:56:21
And yeah, yeah, So we would do as each site plan comes in, we would compare it to the. 01:56:25
To the concept plan. So they'd have to it had to be compliance with concept plan plus any zoning regulations that weren't 01:56:32
overridden in the development agreement. And then that's where we would we would look because the intent of the development 01:56:38
agreement is to make that a walking shared St. and shared in the sense that you know if a car goes in there it's. 01:56:44
You know, it's like it's very rare or it's going really slow and so that would be our opportunity to get down to the design 01:56:51
details. 01:56:54
OK. Yeah. I'm just curious. 01:56:59
Mostly about that and with the internal alley to. 01:57:01
I believe the internal alley is. There's no cars on that one. That one's pure. 01:57:06
I mean, do we include sidewalks is open space? 01:57:11
Typically you don't, but I mean like I'm saying where you're doing something like in a development agreement where it's it's just 01:57:14
different you may you're negotiating it's kind of like do you feel that this meets. 01:57:20
That's where if you don't feel it does, I would you know, up it. 01:57:27
Is. 01:57:32
Let's have a specific idea of what those are so that we can determine whether or not that would be open space. And I'll just, I'll 01:57:35
just comment that Paseos, right, if this was grass in a neighborhood, often those are right like a trail type system through a 01:57:40
neighborhood. 01:57:45
And when we kind of created this, this is an urban paseo and that was part of the rationale. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to see some 01:57:51
details on what you guys consider paseo. 01:57:55
Yeah. And there'll be an exhibit in the development agreement. This is what that is, right? How many trees are going to be there 01:58:03
and what the seating is, what the paper material is, right. And we said it just can't be monolithic Gray asphalt. So some of those 01:58:08
kind of things might be what you're looking for. 01:58:12
And honestly it is on that shared St. it is it is nice to allow cars because that the retailers are going to want cars to be on a 01:58:19
park right right in front of their store as well. So it's it's a lot of the design. 01:58:25
And then the the last thing was having some kind of plan for being able to sell units as well instead of just having monthly 01:58:41
units. 01:58:46
And as far as those being rented out to people, it's kind of the same thing if. 01:58:52
If there is a stringent parking plan, then even if those units sell to somebody. 01:58:59
They know that they only have one or two parking spots, and even if they rent to four people. 01:59:05
They know that they only have two parking spots. So and that's as far as like the comments earlier about parking that Dave Luray 01:59:10
was making. 01:59:15
1.5 units is enough. 01:59:23
If the person is buying the house knowing that, it's like if you buy a house that has one bathroom and you needed two bathrooms, 01:59:25
like. 01:59:29
You can't ask the city to give you a bathroom like this is just how it is. You buy something knowing if you know what you have 01:59:35
then. 01:59:39
It'll work out. It's when people have expectations, like I should be able to park here and then it gets taken away. That's when 01:59:44
the issues start to come. And that's a big reason why the city doesn't allow parking on specific streets is because. 01:59:51
Eventually those streets are going to be heading to somewhere and there can't be parking there. And if somebody has been parking 01:59:59
there for five years and they expect that, then they're going to be extra mad at the city because they are getting their parking 02:00:05
spot taken away. And so having a really stringent parking plan I think is essential. 02:00:12
Is there anything else you guys wanted to see or so it sounds like you're leaning towards continuing this and seeing it back and 02:00:20
then OK, yeah, if unless somebody has a. 02:00:25
I think, yeah, you had a list of those amendments earlier. And so, yeah, incorporating those in addition to what Bryce was saying, 02:00:32
just so it's kind of a. 02:00:36
Cleaned up final thing that we can make a motion on with minimal modifications. Yeah, and we'll still have, just so you know, 02:00:41
there are next step. We'll still go to the City Council with the public hearing, but they won't make a decision until it goes back 02:00:46
to you for a recommendation. 02:00:51
That'll be interesting. I mean, I would also like to know, yeah, in that meeting, it'd be, it'd be good to hear what the City 02:00:58
Council's thinking there. So that would be helpful. Yeah. Can I ask for clarification on the parking plan? Yeah, what we proposed 02:01:03
was we will submit a parking plan before the first site plan. 02:01:09
That'll be helpful knowing the actual boundaries of the physical right, the physical architecture, and be able to come back with a 02:01:15
meaningful parking plan. 02:01:18
Having a little more design and detail what we were proposing in the development agreement, we outlined the main objectives of 02:01:24
that parking plan, meaning it will be permitted, it will be monitored. 02:01:29
It. 02:01:34
I had, I had some of those items on the slide, how visitor parking will be addressed, right. They will have the study as well. It 02:01:36
will have the study that we're going to add, right. And so we can put those main objectives in there in the development agreement 02:01:41
knowing that a management plan with all the details will come later. Is that is that reasonable? 02:01:46
At that time our property manager would be more involved and and we I think we could come up with a better a better solution 02:01:52
though. 02:01:54
OK. And then my last concern and you guys said that this is workable is the 1500 units currently there are 2000 units in that 02:01:59
whole area, so it's almost. 02:02:05
The amount of units that are in that entire area. 02:02:11
That's a lot. Of course the rest of the area isn't mixed-use like it was supposed to be, and it would work a lot better if it was. 02:02:15
But I. 02:02:19
Still doubling that and then we're on top of that. UVU is across the street. They can build whatever they want and we have no say 02:02:23
they could build. 02:02:28
Thousands of units of student housing there and we don't know. 02:02:34
So. 02:02:38
We just want to be sure that we're. 02:02:39
Adding more. 02:02:41
Then. 02:02:44
The infrastructure can take that. We're not adding more than. 02:02:46
The trend? The roads can take infrastructure, of course. 02:02:51
How workable are you guys on the 1500 units? 02:02:57
I'll just address the infrastructure first. Again, I think with each site plan, there'll be an infrastructure assessment right 02:03:03
with the seaman and the team. 02:03:06
Working through that and you know we'll. 02:03:09
Impact and responsibilities. So it's it's hard. I mean we've done a study here it says this is the background and all that's going 02:03:12
to change, but even that won't be exactly accurate. So the best way to deal with that would be each time we come forward here is 02:03:18
the impact of this next building, right and how does that need to be addressed at? 02:03:23
So will that impact include a traffic study with each one? Yeah, I think you'd have to, right. 02:03:30
As far as the number of units I. 02:03:38
We are agreeable to come down if it helps bring the deal, there's a limit to it, obviously for the overall economic viability of 02:03:43
what makes sense given the amount of investment. 02:03:48
We've committed into certain areas in this common open space. We need, we need some mass to be able to help help cover all that. 02:03:53
So I don't know what what feels reasonable to you if 1300 units, you know bring that down to 10 or 15 to 20% down. 02:04:01
You know in that 1300 unit range 1250 is, is this does that, does that satisfy, so if we were to come back and say we will take 02:04:09
that that that hit is that agreeable? I don't live in an area like this I. 02:04:16
Tell you would you would have a better idea of what how you're feeling in your current area. You live there. 02:04:24
Sorry. 02:04:38
Been a little bit in and out. My kids are yelling at me on Messenger could. 02:04:42
Say the question one more time, I was trying to like, so we were just talking about the amount of units. Currently the amount of 02:04:47
units that are in this area is about 2000 units, OK and. 02:04:52
What do you think would be workable for them if they were to be able to come down from 1500? 02:04:58
What do you mean by workable for them? Like what do you think? 02:05:06
As far as coming down? 02:05:10
Like what kind of number would you personally like to see? 02:05:14
It. 02:05:25
It's interesting because it will be. 02:05:28
Two sections of population. 02:05:34
I'm putting all that into one. 02:05:37
So I see, yeah. 02:05:40
I. 02:05:49
I couldn't say because I I see that we are working to build. 02:05:51
And that infrastructure to support. 02:05:56
If there's. 02:06:03
If we're attracting the. 02:06:05
Commercial. 02:06:11
To allow people to feel that sense of community. 02:06:14
Give me a reason to walk over and stay the day. 02:06:19
I I don't know. 02:06:24
I don't know that. 02:06:27
Feel too crowded until we. 02:06:30
It's hard to say because we don't know what UV is. 02:06:35
I feel like 1500. 02:06:42
About Max. 02:06:49
OK. 02:06:51
OK. I think that's probably going to be something more of the city council's gonna, yeah. 02:06:52
Um. 02:06:59
Yeah, I think that's it. 02:07:02
Is there any other questions you guys had for us as far as what we're hoping to see or? 02:07:04
No. 02:07:09
So. 02:07:11
Do I have? 02:07:14
I'd like to move to continue. 02:07:19
I need to look up the words. 02:07:22
To close the public hearing, do we need to close the public hearing? It helps us to move the process because this is going to go 02:07:26
into public hearing with the with the City Council and so unless if you feel. 02:07:33
You know the changes that you're asking for significant enough that you would want the public to come back in. 02:07:41
So it's up to you. 02:07:48
OK, then I'll leave it. Does that mean you ask? 02:07:53
Do you know, does that make an issue with the City Council having a public hearing? 02:07:57
Maybe. 02:08:03
So procedurally it works better if you close it because I I think then we have to continue it at the. 02:08:06
You you can take comment you're you're you're allowed to take comment. It won't be the illegal public hearing but there's a bunch 02:08:13
of members of the public that come you can say I give you each two minutes to to speak. Yeah as a chair you you're allowed to take 02:08:19
public comment but it wouldn't be like the the legal public hearing we've now satisfied. So I I would recommend closing it and 02:08:25
then people still want to speak you you can make that decision. 02:08:30
I'll move to close public hearing, sorry. 02:08:38
A second all in favor. 02:08:42
Now I will also move to. 02:08:45
Move to continue this to our next planning session Planning Commission meeting. 02:08:50
What's the date for that February one? I think is that if everyone OK on February 1st 2023? 02:08:56
Do I have a second? 02:09:05
Yeah, is this This isn't roll call, is it? 02:09:07
No. OK. All in favor. 02:09:13
Right. 02:09:16
Do you guys want to do the training session now? You want to hold it out for next? 02:09:19
Yeah, you guys are fine. Big night. Continue. Yeah, I'm. I'm in favor of. 02:09:24
We have to hit our four hours. We have to hit our four hours a year and they're like, So what, We'll probably always have some 02:09:29
sort of training on there and then if it's you know, you bump it if we want to. 02:09:35
Do. 02:09:42
Yeah. No, we'll move it. OK. I. 02:09:43
There's no work session, Commission member report and expert a discussion and disclosure. 02:09:46
Staff did you have anything? 02:09:53
No, we don't engineering any. 02:09:56
Thinking they should be. Well, I just wanted to give an update, a couple updates. One first update being the traffic signal over 02:10:00
400 N and Main Street is on its way going in, they plan on, we plan to do some other testing tomorrow or testing, testing or 02:10:08
initializing the signal tomorrow. And then as long as the weather is holding up and there's no issues with the signal controllers 02:10:15
and so forth, we expect the light to be operational by Friday. 02:10:23
Let's make the contractor has been great to work with, has been very responsive and I won't say this often but hard to keep up 02:10:31
with sometimes. The other update I want to say is that I have one foot in the grave and Emily has one foot on my shoulder. Thing 02:10:37
pushed me into push me to the ground. She she was notified that she passed her engineering examination for her first level 02:10:43
engineering. 02:10:49
So now she can technically be called. 02:10:56
Engineer Emily Covet. And then on her emails you'll see EI at the end. 02:11:01
Very big milestone and congratulations. That's great, awesome. Any update cash on the Postal Service as they got back to you at 02:11:07
all? I have not been to the post office in a while, so I will work on it this before next meeting. 02:11:14
If there's nothing else. 02:11:23
Meeting adjourned. 02:11:26
Don't forget. 02:11:31
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Yeah. 00:00:01
Welcome everybody. 00:00:23
It is January 18, 2023. It is 6:01 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. 00:00:25
We'll have an Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance by Anthony Jenkins. 00:00:32
We'll do that fudge first. 00:00:37
Play. 00:00:41
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:42
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:48
Father in Heaven, we're thankful for the opportunity to meet together as a Planning Commission and as residents and staff, and we 00:01:02
pray for guidance to keep in mind the the needs of this area and that we can always put people 1st and safety considerations. 00:01:11
And also recognize our responsibility in the community. 00:01:20
We. 00:01:26
Also asked for. 00:01:28
Continued insights into ways that we can better serve the community and say this thing with Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Thank you, 00:01:30
Anthony. All right. 00:01:35
We'll move into the open session. This is a time for public comment, for something that isn't on the agenda. If you have a 00:01:40
comment, we will have the public hearing for. 00:01:45
Both the conditional use permitted vineyard auto and the development agreement for the forge. So if you have comments for that, 00:01:50
there will be a time for you guys to make comments for that. But if you have any comments that aren't on for something that's not 00:01:56
on the agenda right now is your time to come up. Just come up, state your name. 00:02:01
Take about 3 minutes if you need to. 00:02:07
Any public comments? 00:02:10
I realize what you just said and I also realized that I can answer that get up here in a few minutes. And so I won't think of 00:02:20
comment about the course specifically, but I will say that. 00:02:24
You say your name on the record. I am here. I think I turned it on, too. I am Jordan Christensen. I live in the preserve 00:02:31
neighborhood. 00:02:36
And my comment is that in general, high density mixed-use developments are a great thing and I'm very excited for the future of 00:02:41
our city involving those higher density. 00:02:47
Housing options. I understand that that may not be the prevailing or or. 00:02:55
Necessarily a popular opinion in some circles, but I think. 00:03:02
A Terrific. 00:03:09
Investment in our community. 00:03:10
Great. Thank you, Jordan. 00:03:13
Any other public comments? 00:03:15
All right. If not, we will move into the Minutes for review approval. So I have a motion on that.