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Transcript
| Yeah. | 00:00:01 | |
| Welcome everybody. | 00:00:23 | |
| It is January 18, 2023. It is 6:01 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. | 00:00:25 | |
| We'll have an Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance by Anthony Jenkins. | 00:00:32 | |
| We'll do that fudge first. | 00:00:37 | |
| Play. | 00:00:41 | |
| I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, | 00:00:42 | |
| indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. | 00:00:48 | |
| Father in Heaven, we're thankful for the opportunity to meet together as a Planning Commission and as residents and staff, and we | 00:01:02 | |
| pray for guidance to keep in mind the the needs of this area and that we can always put people 1st and safety considerations. | 00:01:11 | |
| And also recognize our responsibility in the community. | 00:01:20 | |
| We. | 00:01:26 | |
| Also asked for. | 00:01:28 | |
| Continued insights into ways that we can better serve the community and say this thing with Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Thank you, | 00:01:30 | |
| Anthony. All right. | 00:01:35 | |
| We'll move into the open session. This is a time for public comment, for something that isn't on the agenda. If you have a | 00:01:40 | |
| comment, we will have the public hearing for. | 00:01:45 | |
| Both the conditional use permitted vineyard auto and the development agreement for the forge. So if you have comments for that, | 00:01:50 | |
| there will be a time for you guys to make comments for that. But if you have any comments that aren't on for something that's not | 00:01:56 | |
| on the agenda right now is your time to come up. Just come up, state your name. | 00:02:01 | |
| Take about 3 minutes if you need to. | 00:02:07 | |
| Any public comments? | 00:02:10 | |
| I realize what you just said and I also realized that I can answer that get up here in a few minutes. And so I won't think of | 00:02:20 | |
| comment about the course specifically, but I will say that. | 00:02:24 | |
| You say your name on the record. I am here. I think I turned it on, too. I am Jordan Christensen. I live in the preserve | 00:02:31 | |
| neighborhood. | 00:02:36 | |
| And my comment is that in general, high density mixed-use developments are a great thing and I'm very excited for the future of | 00:02:41 | |
| our city involving those higher density. | 00:02:47 | |
| Housing options. I understand that that may not be the prevailing or or. | 00:02:55 | |
| Necessarily a popular opinion in some circles, but I think. | 00:03:02 | |
| A Terrific. | 00:03:09 | |
| Investment in our community. | 00:03:10 | |
| Great. Thank you, Jordan. | 00:03:13 | |
| Any other public comments? | 00:03:15 | |
| All right. If not, we will move into the Minutes for review approval. So I have a motion on that. | 00:03:18 | |
| Yeah, I had a chance to review those and I make a motion that we approve those. | 00:03:25 | |
| Do I have a second? Thank you, Tay. All in favor. Aye. All right. Moving to business item. Public hearing conditional use permit | 00:03:30 | |
| for Vineyard Auto. | 00:03:34 | |
| Play. | 00:03:47 | |
| Sorry. | 00:03:50 | |
| Sorry, Commission. Brian Maya, city planner. So that one's getting pushed. At least one more meeting. | 00:03:55 | |
| So sorry. | 00:04:03 | |
| OK. Do we need to make a motion on that, Don? | 00:04:05 | |
| No, we're going to have to re notice that, so. | 00:04:10 | |
| Yeah, we'll, we'll post. We'll put it on the agenda for one notice. | 00:04:14 | |
| Thanks, Brian. All right, moving on to 4.2, the public hearing for the development agreement for The Forge. | 00:04:19 | |
| Great. Thank you, Chair. Members of the Planning Commission, appreciate the opportunity to be able to address you tonight. | 00:04:29 | |
| Then just give me one second to set up. | 00:04:34 | |
| Looks like I have this on extended strands. See if my eyeballs can work. | 00:04:38 | |
| There it is. | 00:04:47 | |
| I should have said it from Mary. | 00:04:50 | |
| That's. | 00:04:53 | |
| Thank you. OK. But the Planning Commission remembers, I think it was a few meetings back. We had Dakota Pacific come and present | 00:04:56 | |
| during a work session of this project. And so this is the area kind of depicted on the bottom of last that's the general plan | 00:05:04 | |
| calls that hours the mixed-use residential district, the general plan there calls for it being an economic center with a mix of | 00:05:11 | |
| residential entertainment, retail, office, professional type type uses. This is area just north of. | 00:05:19 | |
| North and also West of the megaplex, so Block H which is if that's like a head that's of the neck that's the area right behind the | 00:05:28 | |
| megaplex don't Orient you and then on the right that's the area generally it's I believe it's like 40 plus acres. The IC parcel is | 00:05:35 | |
| not a part of the development agreement and so that's owned separately by HC knows hold off several years back. So I've noted that | 00:05:42 | |
| on that block but essentially all the others would be included in this. | 00:05:50 | |
| If you take out the roads and some of the common areas, you're about 21 acres of development. | 00:05:59 | |
| Developable paths, 7 acres of which is kind of a mix between private and public open space. | 00:06:03 | |
| And then I'll. | 00:06:10 | |
| I see blocked I mentioned before. | 00:06:12 | |
| The current zoning standards limits the site to 1/3 square footage as in residential use, so that requires 2/3 to be a non | 00:06:14 | |
| residential commercial retail office entertainment. It could be kind of a mix. | 00:06:21 | |
| It requires mixed-use with some ground floor retail and so that that's kind of even with the current code that's an important part | 00:06:29 | |
| is having ground floor straight frontage retail that helps to activate the street that's that's very important to the code. The | 00:06:35 | |
| there's internal private streets 650 N was the road that was built back and I think it was like 2016 and that was turned over to | 00:06:40 | |
| the city as a as a public Rd. | 00:06:46 | |
| And then it is a kind of a quasi form based Euclidean zoning. The kind of Euclidian thing on that old school zoning form based is | 00:06:52 | |
| the zoning that has some focus on the architecture and design and so there is an emphasis on human scale architecture. | 00:07:01 | |
| Which emphasizes entrances to buildings, window placement, connections to walkways. The block structure is called out in the code | 00:07:11 | |
| requiring. | 00:07:15 | |
| You know greater vehicular and pedestrian connections. | 00:07:22 | |
| With a focus on their urban design quality of because the pedestrian way. | 00:07:57 | |
| These are the primary elements of the development agreement. The applicant will provide a lot more detail. They'll they'll run | 00:08:04 | |
| back through the designs. This is the official public hearing. It's a master plan community. That's one of the main points of this | 00:08:10 | |
| is that we wanted to have a forge kind of at a higher level design than what is called out in the turn code. There's private open | 00:08:16 | |
| space provided throughout, there's the corridors along Geneva Rd. So there's kind of the idea of doing the trail system with | 00:08:22 | |
| pocket parks. | 00:08:28 | |
| Mid block enhanced alley gathering spaces and so that's really helping to tonight make a better connection to the yard that's been | 00:08:35 | |
| a desire of the city is to see kind of these two developments the yard with me complexes and a forge used together at A at a | 00:08:42 | |
| higher level 25 maybe other it might be 24 deed restricted affordable units. | 00:08:49 | |
| Serving the 60% AM. | 00:08:57 | |
| That's area medium income and that's and that's pretty important because typically it's an 80% am I a lot of developers go for 60% | 00:08:59 | |
| would deed restrict us so that it would serve you know folks that are are kind of in more of your entry level jobs. | 00:09:07 | |
| And they are proposing that these be kind of geared towards your public safety officials, so firefighters, EMT, police officers | 00:09:16 | |
| and then teachers would would be I guess like net, net next on the list. So those are typically the types of residents that he's | 00:09:23 | |
| love to attract. Often the housing costs do kind of push those those types of residents out out of the city and so having you know | 00:09:30 | |
| your public safety officials. | 00:09:37 | |
| Within the city and you know, having a lot of those units dedicated towards them, the city, you know, the staff really believes | 00:09:44 | |
| that be a massive benefit overall to city. | 00:09:48 | |
| The pedestrian street may be blocked off for festivals, so different programming of the street system. It removes the 1/3 | 00:09:53 | |
| residential requirement. | 00:09:57 | |
| Requires ground floor commercial and retail to be 50% of blocks. And so that's kind of ensuring from a retail standpoint your best | 00:10:02 | |
| retail is going to be your street frontage retail and ensuring that you kind of maintain that ground floor retail look. | 00:10:09 | |
| And they're providing A1 acre public park in addition to the private parks along Geneva Rd. | 00:10:18 | |
| A really great benefit in the future. | 00:10:54 | |
| Geneva Rd. Trail will connect the City Park and the two pocket parks and plazas. There's a hotel use established for phase one, | 00:10:57 | |
| which is a really big benefit to the city with the transient room tax and just the, you know, the the dollars that those folks | 00:11:03 | |
| bring to it to retail district are are positive. | 00:11:09 | |
| There's two central plazas with eateries allows the development room does allow up to three acres or 300 units constructed in | 00:11:16 | |
| phase one without commercial. So allows them to kind of get through the gate what they. | 00:11:24 | |
| Primarily or really a fully residential project at the beginning stages. | 00:11:31 | |
| And then it as right now, allows a maximum up to 1500 units. | 00:11:36 | |
| Morgan, can I ask a question? | 00:11:40 | |
| So I missed the working group, session and so. | 00:11:42 | |
| Obviously this is spelling out specifics, but can you give me a brief quick snapshot of why we do? | 00:11:47 | |
| Development agreements versus. | 00:11:53 | |
| Standard stuff that makes sense, yeah. A development agreement allows you to be a lot more detailed, especially in things that the | 00:11:57 | |
| zoning doesn't necessarily account for. So things like if there's a requirement like for innocence for this, for residential and | 00:12:03 | |
| commercial, it allows them to get out in a phase one. | 00:12:09 | |
| And with residential, where's the code would you say you know you when your first building needs to have that, that that make up | 00:12:17 | |
| that erasure that's called out on the code. It allows you to phase in parks, so when you want to see the parks. | 00:12:23 | |
| You want to see parks? | 00:12:30 | |
| Sooner rather than later, which amenities do we want to be brought forward downtown? We were very specific with certain amenities | 00:12:31 | |
| that needed added prior to the major development occurrence, which are like the promenade in place. So that allows you to do | 00:12:37 | |
| things like that. | 00:12:42 | |
| Having these amendments incorporated and getting the final draft prior to to a decision, so that's that's up to you. The first is | 00:13:50 | |
| to a modifications to the concept plan. | 00:13:55 | |
| Need to be better defined. So there's some language in there that allows some modifications to the concept. Plans are supposed to | 00:14:02 | |
| be constant plans. So we're asking for a more definition as to when can a site plan that you would see. So the Planning Commission | 00:14:07 | |
| would still see the site plan approval, but. | 00:14:11 | |
| At what level can the site? | 00:14:17 | |
| Be modified from the concept plan. So we're trying to get some better teeth to that to provide guidance to staff, better time | 00:14:20 | |
| frames for phase one, sorry. | 00:14:25 | |
| Sometimes our system does that or just cuts out. | 00:14:30 | |
| We we would like to you know obviously this the city would like to see retail constructed sooner. So the quicker phase one goes to | 00:14:34 | |
| the process means that we're going to get to the the retail portion of the development and we'd like to see some time frames | 00:14:40 | |
| established. | 00:14:45 | |
| A change so well, so we want to make sure that future laws, so we put future laws in place that they if a project is not built yet | 00:14:52 | |
| in their developments that they come forward with a building that if we have a future law that they would have to follow that that | 00:14:59 | |
| law and that basically they're not vested by whatever zoning. | 00:15:06 | |
| Requirements are in place now, so if there's a zoning. | 00:15:13 | |
| Requirement that would attach to their type of development. It would apply at the time and that's pretty standard short term | 00:15:16 | |
| rentals too. They they do call out short term rentals. That is a use that the city is writing a code for and we don't. | 00:15:23 | |
| We don't want it just to be a straight up approved use that they'd have to go through any city process for rental, so it's not | 00:15:30 | |
| something that they would bypass. | 00:15:35 | |
| Baseline improvements for the public park need to be clarified, so we do want some details as to that. | 00:15:41 | |
| Most likely it would be a donation in the city assisting with reimbursement on on the improvements. That's what we do with Water's | 00:15:47 | |
| Edge, but we would need to have that spelled out at at what level can we say, OK, that park's good, we'll take it from there. | 00:15:54 | |
| So there's some interest and we probably want to do this in development of that next one interested in establishing a public | 00:16:03 | |
| Improvement District and being a really special district and having kind of a higher level of of public infrastructure than | 00:16:08 | |
| typically would be in just a public St. a public Improvement District may be something that we will look at as a mechanism moving | 00:16:13 | |
| forward to help keep maintenance at a very high level. | 00:16:18 | |
| There's a sentence about impact fees that would vest them with the impact fees that are in place. Now we are in the process of | 00:16:26 | |
| updating our impact fees and so same thing, we want the impact fees that are on the books to apply to the development when it gets | 00:16:32 | |
| developed, not not their vested down. So we're we're going to modify that language. | 00:16:39 | |
| We need to understand the water needs to inform the water master plan that we're going to be working on. And so Missy and his | 00:16:47 | |
| group are going to work with them on that detention facilities, clarifying that if you do a detention pond that that can't count | 00:16:54 | |
| towards your open space unless it's it's an underground system and the open space is the quality is is maintained. | 00:17:01 | |
| Probably you're going to modify that so they do a really shallow the detention pond that doesn't. | 00:17:10 | |
| Take away from the character of open space and that may be something we can, we can accept, but we have a lot of developments now | 00:17:16 | |
| where you have really deep detention ponds and they're kind of, you know, we call them open space, but they're. | 00:17:22 | |
| It's not as usable, so we just want to make sure if it's open space you can actually use it. | 00:17:28 | |
| So that. | 00:17:34 | |
| On the phasing of the open space, want that clarified language added and indicated in the concept plan for a public safety | 00:17:36 | |
| facility. So we feel like this might be a great opportunity to get a fire station and we're working with the developers that we | 00:17:41 | |
| can at least designate a space for it so it doesn't get developed. So you know we we definitely need none of the fire station in | 00:17:46 | |
| the city. | 00:17:51 | |
| And then language added indicated to the, Oh yeah, and then the last one, update the concept plan so that they're consistent and | 00:17:57 | |
| some of the material that we've seen, there's little teeny changes between the plans. We want all the plans to have the same | 00:18:01 | |
| consistent design all the way through. | 00:18:06 | |
| And then our recommendation is with those modifications, staff is recommending approval. | 00:18:13 | |
| We provided 4 motions for your consideration. | 00:18:18 | |
| One is to approve, basically, as is a motion to recommend approval. | 00:18:21 | |
| With with modifications, should you have any kind of in addition to what staff is laid out. | 00:18:26 | |
| And then a motion. | 00:18:32 | |
| To. | 00:18:35 | |
| And that that may be the appropriate one if you want to see kind of the final document and then a a motion to to deny and these | 00:18:37 | |
| would be recommendations to to the City Council. | 00:18:42 | |
| The motion for continuance obviously would go back to you. | 00:18:48 | |
| The applicant is here and would like. | 00:18:52 | |
| Prison as well. Great. Yeah, if you guys, I'm happy to entertain questions from Did you guys have any questions for Morgan yet? | 00:18:55 | |
| One thing that I just wanted to kind of level set is. | 00:19:02 | |
| You started out with that current state, so that's what's existing today if no action were taken just for the public's knowledge. | 00:19:06 | |
| And then what we're discussing tonight is a recommendation or a non recommendation to the final decision making body which is the | 00:19:14 | |
| City Council and the mayor. So anything that we would do in this body would not be binding or official, it would be a | 00:19:20 | |
| recommendation for. | 00:19:26 | |
| The legislative body of the city, which is the City Council, the mayor, So I think that's an important. | 00:19:33 | |
| Thing for everyone to understand as well. Thanks Anthony. | 00:19:37 | |
| Rachel, do you need to switch them over? | 00:19:55 | |
| Well, thank you for allowing us to be with you this evening. My name is Jeff Goughner. I'm with Dakota Pacific Real Estate. We're | 00:20:20 | |
| the ones that are planning this project and have been working on it now for about 7 years. So it's. | 00:20:27 | |
| We're hoping it's due time to get something started on this site, and we're excited about it. When we met with you back in | 00:20:35 | |
| November, we appreciated your input. You had some good thoughts and good points. | 00:20:40 | |
| And so we feel like. | 00:20:47 | |
| With what we'll be presenting tonight, hopefully addresses some of those issues that were. | 00:20:49 | |
| So this is my colleague Steve Borup, and I'm just going to turn the time over to him now to go through our slides. And feel free | 00:20:56 | |
| to stop or interrupt and ask questions along the way if you prefer. We're happy to address those as we go. | 00:21:03 | |
| And for the public's benefit, we thought would back up, right we originally came and just think it would respond primarily to the | 00:21:13 | |
| comments that came from November and we've you know. | 00:21:17 | |
| Listed out some of the main comments and how I've addressed for the public's benefit. | 00:21:22 | |
| And Commissioner, Browns benefit. We'll just go back through briefly on the design inspiration, if that's OK, and just kind of go | 00:21:26 | |
| through the big picture and why we're doing what we're doing. | 00:21:30 | |
| Um. | 00:21:35 | |
| Just back back to that to the point you know currently this is this, this space is entitled. | 00:21:37 | |
| You know, 2/3 commercial, 1/3 residential. | 00:21:45 | |
| And it was anticipated, you know that there'd be a 1.8 million square feet of total space built and about 1.1 million of that | 00:21:48 | |
| would be office and then you know 500, six, 100,000 square feet of of residential and that was that's what the current entitlement | 00:21:53 | |
| kind of anticipated. Again, it doesn't say that in the code, but. | 00:21:58 | |
| But that's when it was designed and if you look at the massing and everything that was anticipated that's that was the scale. And | 00:22:04 | |
| so just keep that in mind, what we're proposing isn't necessarily an increase to the total space. We're not adding additional | 00:22:10 | |
| density in terms of total square footage of the building what it is. | 00:22:15 | |
| A proposal of a master plan and it changes some of the uses from commercial to residential. | 00:22:21 | |
| I think that's important. | 00:22:26 | |
| The As we started to look at the space and the inspiration for it, we looked to great places that we thought would make sense and | 00:22:28 | |
| what we heard. | 00:22:32 | |
| In early meetings with staff and and the mayor was like. | 00:22:36 | |
| Gathering Space Festival. | 00:22:40 | |
| Places people can come together, but in a very urban setting, right? That's what the zoning wants and mixed-use is what the zoning | 00:22:44 | |
| wants. | 00:22:47 | |
| Don't try to change the intent of that and so. | 00:22:50 | |
| You know, from Denver? | 00:22:53 | |
| To like this particular space here is up in Connecticut where first time a Newtown Center was being built. We're not your Town | 00:22:56 | |
| Center, right? We're not the downtown. But but these were case studies that we looked at of how they kind of went from not very | 00:23:01 | |
| urban to urban and what the effects were and what their design impacts were. | 00:23:07 | |
| I think this one is in Indiana and then I get a couple in Denver. But but this is what we see right? Some beautiful open space, | 00:23:14 | |
| access to green space, access to hardscape. | 00:23:19 | |
| People can come together. | 00:23:25 | |
| With within the urban environment and so that that has been our objective and goal. | 00:23:27 | |
| This is. | 00:23:32 | |
| Of what it looks like and I'll just emphasize again. | 00:23:33 | |
| You know, we've shown structures within this plan view. | 00:23:38 | |
| They're conceptual in that what really the master plan is the space between the buildings, what's the pedestrian connectivity, | 00:23:41 | |
| what's the open space, what's the Plaza and then of course some of the key terms that we've talked about and. | 00:23:47 | |
| We've got building placeholders here. | 00:23:52 | |
| We'll go into some of the open space designations, but but that's really been I think what the ask was from us to bring a master | 00:23:54 | |
| plan that. | 00:23:57 | |
| That will ensure that as this gets developed over the next 10 years that there's good continuity and it makes sense and there's a | 00:24:01 | |
| certain quality to it and that's that's the purpose of the development agreement is really negotiate those kind of details. | 00:24:06 | |
| Some objectives in the master plan was to create a real strong presence on this corner. | 00:24:18 | |
| Right. You're coming from Orem to Vineyard. What we want to say hello, you're in Vineyard now and and put a real nice structure in | 00:24:22 | |
| a building there. Integrate well with this Geneva trail. | 00:24:27 | |
| Bring kind of a central Plaza into. | 00:24:32 | |
| Really helped with the pedestrian connectivity of this Geneva Trails. It gets built out. We anticipate, you know, people can come | 00:24:36 | |
| enjoy the parks, come eat and dine, move over, right? Eventually go back over. | 00:24:41 | |
| Over to the downtown area to the lake, right, Really, really connect pedestrians and bicycle activity through the space. And then | 00:24:47 | |
| also just integrate well with all the activity that's going to the South of us, right the the theater and the top golf and | 00:24:53 | |
| entertainment district that's there and work well with that and invite pedestrians kind of up through and and into our space and | 00:24:58 | |
| and integrate well. | 00:25:03 | |
| These are the open space designations that we have created. Again, you know, a nice pedestrian internal alley that would have | 00:25:10 | |
| business activity on all sides. | 00:25:14 | |
| An East West pedestrian connectivity that's really a shared St. shared between cars, shared cars, pedestrians and and and bicycle | 00:25:19 | |
| traffic. | 00:25:24 | |
| You know, if a car is on it, they're going 4 miles an hour, right? We'll have calming effects to make sure that that that stays in | 00:25:30 | |
| place. | 00:25:33 | |
| Maybe a retail Plaza more focused on dining, where people can come together and eat and have some common area together. | 00:25:38 | |
| And then you know looking at view corridors as you're driving along the road being able to kind of see into the space and fill up | 00:25:45 | |
| the depth and. | 00:25:48 | |
| Was part of the objective to be able to, you know, utilize the views of the mountains to the east. So these are some of the main | 00:25:51 | |
| objectives in the open space. | 00:25:56 | |
| The development agreement will talk about the quality of finishes and and some of these key characteristic points. But the idea is | 00:26:02 | |
| that, you know, this would be a concept elevation of what might be at that central Plaza that will have some kind of a feature | 00:26:08 | |
| that we're going to commit to in the development agreement, whether that be a water feature or some kind of a sculpture. | 00:26:13 | |
| Right. The kind of paving and and the variety that would be there. I would love to see a food hall, you know, along this Plaza | 00:26:19 | |
| along with you know residential and some seated dining all all part of that Plaza. | 00:26:25 | |
| We commit to the number of trees, we commit to, you know, some interesting seating and all those kind of things within the | 00:26:31 | |
| development agreement to ensure again that there's a certain level of quality. | 00:26:35 | |
| Another concept, elevation this would be that. | 00:26:40 | |
| If we were, you know, walking, driving, bicycling all along, there will be seating that will be active. | 00:26:43 | |
| Let's not. It's meant to be really integrated and living in terms of the way it feels. | 00:26:49 | |
| This to be an aerial view of the mastering study, again based on some some concept structures that we put into this. | 00:26:56 | |
| You know, again, you can see the pedestrian activity. This would be Cauldron Street is what it would be called. And the idea is | 00:27:05 | |
| that this street would have commercial on both sides of it. You're driving down it would it would be that urban wall that Morgan | 00:27:09 | |
| talked about. | 00:27:13 | |
| Where would be guaranteeing in the development agreement that both sides of that on the ground floor would have, would have | 00:27:18 | |
| commercial and kind of an active retail feel? | 00:27:22 | |
| We'll get into I think some more of this because we'll be responding to this and some of the specifics in in response. | 00:27:29 | |
| But a key piece of this is how much residential, how much commercial and what we're what we're proposing is that 50% of the ground | 00:27:34 | |
| floor would be. | 00:27:38 | |
| Required to be commercial and where these dashed lines are would be required to be a ground floor commercial. So specific area | 00:27:42 | |
| where there's commercial and then an overall ratio that would be commercial. | 00:27:47 | |
| I think Morgan's kind of covered some of those other areas. | 00:27:52 | |
| This is another representation of where the. | 00:27:55 | |
| Is likely to sit in the massing study that we have. We've designated again you've got Calderon St. here which would be very active | 00:27:57 | |
| commercial based and some residential. | 00:28:01 | |
| Kind of sitting in and and throughout the development and these. | 00:28:06 | |
| Displays. How tall did those represent? | 00:28:11 | |
| Yeah, so if I look here, this is 4 stories here, this is five stories, so four to five story structures. | 00:28:15 | |
| You know you start to get above that the construction costs go up quite a bit. So it's quite that's kind of a ceiling in terms of | 00:28:23 | |
| just the economics of the project. So that so that would be. | 00:28:28 | |
| 50 to 60 feet. | 00:28:33 | |
| If it's five story or yes and yeah, for residential you could assume 10, the ground floor would be 1415 feet and then and then | 00:28:35 | |
| yeah 10/10/12 feet above that. So, so in this plan you have those, it looks like 3 1/2 buildings as residential. | 00:28:44 | |
| And you're thinking 1500 units in those 3 1/2 buildings, No, each of those would be about 300. I I, I think in the first session | 00:28:53 | |
| we disclosed like this is about 1200 units. What's what you're looking at? Again, I understand this is conceptual, but these, | 00:28:59 | |
| these, these could be like 250 to 300. | 00:29:04 | |
| Dwelling units apiece, we talked about some potentially in. | 00:29:11 | |
| You know this building I think is marked as could that be residential, could that be commercial to kind of mix that in and then? | 00:29:14 | |
| We could bring some ground floor commercial with some additional residential somewhere else into the project. So this this picture | 00:29:21 | |
| of the green being commercial and. | 00:29:26 | |
| The other stuff being residential, really it could be all of it is residential at the ground floor could be commercial and all | 00:29:33 | |
| these buildings. | 00:29:36 | |
| If the plan changes, that sounds like. | 00:29:39 | |
| Plans right now. | 00:29:42 | |
| Ground floor would be guaranteed to be commercial on 50% of the of the space to really keep the the, the the street active. That's | 00:29:45 | |
| right. I think we talked about last time that with the reduction of office demand multi story commercial becomes challenging and | 00:29:51 | |
| how do we meet that? | 00:29:56 | |
| In. | 00:30:01 | |
| That has been reduced in demand. We still anticipate office. We still anticipate office here. We still anticipate office here. | 00:30:04 | |
| An office here is just going to be at a reduced reduced amount, probably more than the three story range for office. | 00:30:09 | |
| So is there a possibility because I know in the in the change for the height it goes from 1:25 to 1:40, it can go up to. So do you | 00:30:15 | |
| anticipate any of these buildings would actually be double what's being presented here? | 00:30:22 | |
| And reach that 125 or 140 height. | 00:30:29 | |
| In the current economic environment, I think that would be challenging, right? Just higher construction costs versus the rents | 00:30:34 | |
| vector? | 00:30:37 | |
| You know comparable in the in the vineyard market. | 00:30:42 | |
| Is that is that a concern or is that? | 00:30:46 | |
| If we're putting in one 25140, it gives a huge option to do more. Obviously you have a cap of 1500, so there's only so much that | 00:30:51 | |
| housing, but if the plants here present, you know. | 00:30:57 | |
| 1000 housing using it you know it's realistically that only means it can go up you know you have to use that extra height you're | 00:31:05 | |
| going to end up with taller buildings so. So the discussion is you know what what what what's the impact of that so as soon as you | 00:31:10 | |
| leave the anything over four to five stories you start to get out of wood construction and into metal or or pre you know or cast | 00:31:16 | |
| in place concrete and. | 00:31:21 | |
| And the costs start to go up 3040%, you know, per unit. It's just economically becomes very challenging. | 00:31:28 | |
| My guess would be if we did go higher with the office. | 00:31:38 | |
| Which would be in some ways a nice problem to have, which is already going to be, you know, steel building in general anyways. | 00:31:41 | |
| So you know, I think we provided and in what was sent out, it kind of goes through some of the details of some of the common | 00:31:51 | |
| areas. I don't know that we need to go through that again. We went through that I think in. | 00:31:56 | |
| Some depth before, but umm. | 00:32:02 | |
| I guess I'll just stop there and ask if there's any other comments or questions about the design intent or the design concepts | 00:32:07 | |
| around the open space. | 00:32:10 | |
| And and then if not, we can kind of go into responding to the Planning Commission. So a couple of questions I had. Are you | 00:32:15 | |
| including the internal alleys and the shared street is open space? | 00:32:20 | |
| Correct, Yes. And a lot of urban environments that becomes open space. You know, we have a project in South Salt Lake City and | 00:32:26 | |
| this kind of shared St. idea is is very much considered open space there as well. Exactly, yeah. | 00:32:33 | |
| Yep. And then my second question when we talked in our meeting last I. | 00:32:41 | |
| The majority of your open space is. | 00:32:46 | |
| Narrow and just along the frontage road and. | 00:32:50 | |
| Mentioned bringing buildings up to the frontage and actually making bigger usable open space because most of that open space is | 00:32:54 | |
| not usable for park space. | 00:32:59 | |
| For festivals or for anything? | 00:33:05 | |
| I mean, you can plant trees there, but beyond that you can't really do anything else and that's the majority of your open space it | 00:33:09 | |
| looks like. | 00:33:12 | |
| This was. | 00:33:16 | |
| Version that was presented in NN November 17th and the Red Arrows kind of represent the ask. | 00:33:18 | |
| Hey. | 00:33:25 | |
| Remove that fronted Rd. That's pushed buildings up to the street. They've been there to have urban wall there. | 00:33:26 | |
| And so we evaluated that and said, OK, we do that now, where else can we add that open space? And we ran through several | 00:33:33 | |
| scenarios. | 00:33:36 | |
| The response came back and I'll just move forward here through the through the slides. | 00:33:41 | |
| In a response to look more like this, so we reduced, you know if you recall we kind of had a long linear part that went up here on | 00:33:47 | |
| this E Gateway park. We reduced that and then we. | 00:33:52 | |
| The walls here. There used to be a street here and now that went to open space, we still remain the 2.2 acres. All right, this is | 00:33:58 | |
| a 2.2 acre. | 00:34:02 | |
| Central Park not including the shared street. So if you talk about festival, the idea was that we'll have opportunity to put | 00:34:07 | |
| bollards here and here. Traffic can then flow out and around and still get into the into the place, but you could. | 00:34:13 | |
| It's. | 00:34:19 | |
| Probably 3 A/C. | 00:34:21 | |
| And really make that a festival area, right? You'd have hardscape, you'd have soft scape, you'd have a lot of seating integrated | 00:34:22 | |
| into there. And so that's that's that's one of the. | 00:34:26 | |
| The other was then we took the acre that was removed and we. | 00:34:31 | |
| Umm. | 00:34:36 | |
| In this block behind the theater. | 00:34:37 | |
| We said we will donate that land for public park, right? And so that's the more traditional Square park and there was a lot of | 00:34:39 | |
| requests and discussion about how do we get a park further South. | 00:34:44 | |
| And you know. | 00:34:50 | |
| It's a little far removed, right? We have HC as a buffer and 6:50 and it doesn't feel as integrated and so that was kind of. | 00:34:52 | |
| A concession on our side. | 00:34:59 | |
| This seems to be what the community wants and needs. Let's find a solution. | 00:35:02 | |
| And we put it here rather than trying to integrate it up into the main development area. So they'll be kind of a pocket park there | 00:35:06 | |
| along Geneva Trail as long as as well as the Apocrypha parks here. So you know you'll have a park here, you'll have a park down | 00:35:12 | |
| here and then of course you'll have all access to. All right, if I could just kind of add. | 00:35:17 | |
| The city is working with you dot. We would really love to see a multi use trail on our side of Geneva Rd. when they do the | 00:35:23 | |
| expansion and and especially with the governors new stance that basically all you dot projects need to include active | 00:35:29 | |
| transportation. We think there's a very good likelihood of of us achieving that. So if we get a regional trail that essentially | 00:35:36 | |
| will connect down through you know the southern part of Geneva Rd. that connects into the Lakeview Trail, I mean that could be one | 00:35:42 | |
| really nice regional trail. | 00:35:48 | |
| So the thought was like as as you enter this part of Vineyard, it creates a series of pocket parks. | 00:35:55 | |
| Pop off and being apart also you have a lot of residential there and that creates a nice corridor of open space. You know it's | 00:36:36 | |
| next to the highway but if with all that open space it provides opportunities for the trees and some buffering. So we we are | 00:36:42 | |
| pretty excited about it. The other question I had is just looking at the map you have exhibit. | 00:36:48 | |
| The East Gateway park. | 00:36:56 | |
| Currently looks like the train track would run right down the middle of that. | 00:36:58 | |
| Where does the train lie in that park currently? | 00:37:03 | |
| That'd be great amenity, right? | 00:37:06 | |
| I'm just curious right now where that is. | 00:37:10 | |
| Yeah, there's a canal there today and then there's train tracks, but I believe what? | 00:37:13 | |
| What the city is working to do. | 00:37:19 | |
| Be able to abandon those tracks and Morgan or somebody else, maybe you'll speak to the better. That's where the Geneva trail will | 00:37:22 | |
| go. Then we'll add additional buffer next to that. | 00:37:26 | |
| Along this. | 00:37:31 | |
| So. | 00:37:32 | |
| What was the tracks? What was the canal? Well, I think the canal is currently owned by flagship. | 00:37:33 | |
| And we could potentially acquire that. | 00:37:38 | |
| You'll have the canal on the tracks and then whatever additional 50 feet that we offer all kind of as a as a linear trail right | 00:37:41 | |
| there on the East East Gateway. And I believe correct if I'm if I'm wrong on this Steve or Jeff but I think what you guys are | 00:37:47 | |
| showing right here it isn't that your property like the like the so the railroad tracks are landing just. | 00:37:54 | |
| East of that or is that, is that part of the rail corridor? This exhibit is going out into the road, yeah. | 00:38:01 | |
| For survey, OK, so is the one is the 1.2 acres land you guys currently own or it is I don't know that graphic represents it well, | 00:38:11 | |
| but the way the development agreement? | 00:38:16 | |
| Described it as that building will be set. | 00:38:23 | |
| 50 feet from our our land or if. | 00:38:25 | |
| Guarantees 50 feet of buffer between our land and the building. | 00:38:33 | |
| OK, so from your property line to the building line, that's right. | 00:38:37 | |
| At the narrowest point, I should say, right? So that's here. And then of course it would grow if that building remains angled like | 00:38:43 | |
| that. | 00:38:46 | |
| The idea with the development agreement is, you know, that was one of Morgan's comments is we need to know what kind of changes | 00:38:51 | |
| are acceptable and for us. | 00:38:55 | |
| It's 1.2 acres, right? And so this the size of that might change, I mean not the size, but the shape of this building might | 00:39:01 | |
| change. | 00:39:04 | |
| But in the end, it's going to be 1.2 acres, right? That's that's what we're trying to guarantee in the development agreement, if | 00:39:08 | |
| that makes sense. | 00:39:11 | |
| This is a random question, but do we know does U dot? | 00:39:21 | |
| All the space they would need to widen Geneva. | 00:39:26 | |
| I have had discussions. | 00:39:31 | |
| Because right now they own all that space and then they also have the first right on a little 45 foot narrow strip that flag | 00:39:34 | |
| Flagship Homes still owns. | 00:39:37 | |
| And I do have emails and correspondence with you that saying that they will not need that additional 45 feet, right, which is kind | 00:39:42 | |
| of where that canal is today. | 00:39:46 | |
| Just thinking ahead, yeah, no, I'm just thinking ahead of like if we set up 50 feet and then five years from now UDOT comes and | 00:39:50 | |
| they purchase. | 00:39:54 | |
| You know half of that for whatever they need to expand on, So I know. | 00:39:59 | |
| Necessarily read the future, but just. | 00:40:04 | |
| Any other questions before we kind of address? | 00:40:11 | |
| What else? We heard from last meeting and address some of those things. | 00:40:14 | |
| I don't think you can continue. | 00:40:17 | |
| We'll get to you guys in just in a little bit. | 00:40:21 | |
| So from the November 17th, you know these are some of the favorable things we heard and comments to be addressed parks and open | 00:40:26 | |
| space. | 00:40:29 | |
| Adequate for the residential scale. I think that's what you just referred to, Commissioner. | 00:40:32 | |
| Affordable housing for first responders, parking infrastructure, and then just, you know, there was. | 00:40:38 | |
| Comments about, you know, 1500 residential units. Is that appropriate? We've just kind of left that open I think for some | 00:40:44 | |
| discussion today. | 00:40:47 | |
| We're, you know, certainly willing to commit to some numbers as needed, but anything to add? | 00:40:51 | |
| Yeah. | 00:40:57 | |
| So we just covered the open space. | 00:40:59 | |
| And the one acre park that we offered down here. | 00:41:03 | |
| As a concession to be able to provide more. | 00:41:09 | |
| Affordable housing. | 00:41:13 | |
| This is what we talked to the City Council. This is a slide that we. | 00:41:16 | |
| With them last week, we looked at affordable housing. | 00:41:20 | |
| And how? You know, the federal government and HUD defines affordable housing. They define it as no more than 30% of your household | 00:41:24 | |
| income goes toward housing and utilities. | 00:41:28 | |
| And so if you look at what the HUD? | 00:41:33 | |
| Income is for the provoir areas, $96,000 and you start to take 30% of that and it eventually builds this table that we've | 00:41:36 | |
| confirmed with. | 00:41:40 | |
| Both the Utah Housing Authority and some other affordable housing consultants. | 00:41:45 | |
| And so. | 00:41:49 | |
| The area median income at 100% says this is how much people can pay for rents and at 60% this is how much people can pay for rents | 00:41:50 | |
| for the different bedroom sizes. | 00:41:54 | |
| In our analysis we found that Vineyard has 1500 plus units in the in the you know 70 to 80% range. You know based on what just | 00:42:00 | |
| already being charged in the market by HUD standards. | 00:42:05 | |
| Again, we're using HUD standards as a standard. I don't know that feels affordable to everybody, but that feels right to | 00:42:11 | |
| everybody. | 00:42:13 | |
| But it is the way the federal government administered affordable housing and. | 00:42:17 | |
| And how we proposed it. So we looked knowing that there was kind of this niche need of first responders and. | 00:42:21 | |
| How do we track those and keep them here and what are their salaries? And then if we take that and we'd say what's 30% of that | 00:42:27 | |
| income, what kind of rent can they pay and if you can compare these affordable rents back to the table. | 00:42:32 | |
| You start to say assuming that there's a single income in that household. | 00:42:38 | |
| You know, it's 60% AMI. They can start to afford a one to two-bedroom apartment and so 60% AMI starts to say this is what we | 00:42:42 | |
| really need to target, not 80% AMI. | 00:42:47 | |
| And so with that, we looked at the value that that concession would be. | 00:42:54 | |
| Which is about $5 million of value to offer 25 units at 60% AMI. | 00:42:59 | |
| And we've got legal right now our legal and looking at it the 2nd, we actually put a first right on that for first responders, | 00:43:05 | |
| right so. | 00:43:09 | |
| When a unit comes available, if there's a first responder on there, they have first right to be able to take it as I mean they | 00:43:13 | |
| meet all the other qualifications needed in order to take the housing and then potentially a second right. | 00:43:19 | |
| For teachers. | 00:43:24 | |
| So. | 00:43:26 | |
| Well, so some other options that we put together on affordable housing, that'll be a new slide that we bring into you. But I'll | 00:43:28 | |
| just note that this doesn't include any RDA funds. | 00:43:33 | |
| That can also be allocated to affordable housing. So 10% of the increment that goes to the RDA is allocated for affordable housing | 00:43:39 | |
| and that can also be added. | 00:43:43 | |
| To the overall affordable housing that can go into the project. | 00:43:48 | |
| So what we looked at is what else can we do to add additional affordable housing? | 00:43:56 | |
| We know what the concession is here is in terms of total value. | 00:44:02 | |
| And what can we do to add it and so? | 00:44:07 | |
| Tries to repres. | 00:44:09 | |
| Some different options. | 00:44:11 | |
| If we stay within 60% AMI, how many units can we add? This is the 25. | 00:44:13 | |
| And we can add that with structured parking, right. So structured parking adds. | 00:44:19 | |
| And yet our rents will still be the same and so that starts. | 00:44:23 | |
| Kind of take away from how much affordable or at least every affordable unit that that we bring to the table cost more, right, | 00:44:27 | |
| because of the structured parking, because structured parking is going to add $40,000 unit. | 00:44:32 | |
| For 1 1/2. | 00:44:37 | |
| Without structured parking, if we were to eliminate that altogether and say take that out economically, it's the equivalent of | 00:44:39 | |
| adding 45 units. | 00:44:43 | |
| We wondered if we can take a section of. | 00:44:48 | |
| Parcel and say can we remove the structured parking, let's say it's behind the lot behind the theater and remove the structured | 00:44:52 | |
| parking for that area so we can increase the. | 00:44:57 | |
| Affordable housing. | 00:45:02 | |
| And you know if we were to add 25 or 30 affordable. | 00:45:03 | |
| Units back there and then provide the rest of the main development. We could potentially add 36. | 00:45:07 | |
| RDA would then fund some additional and then a 1300 total dwelling units. We could get you know something in these ranges. | 00:45:13 | |
| If we were to say 70% is adequate. | 00:45:20 | |
| Same kind of logic we could start to get. | 00:45:23 | |
| Higher. And then if we were to increase and stay at 1500 dwelling units, which again we'll have a discussion about, I think some | 00:45:28 | |
| additional can be added just for the economic benefit there as well as the TIF that could bring an additional. | 00:45:33 | |
| For for the added valuation that would come. | 00:45:39 | |
| So I'll pause there. Any thoughts, comments around? | 00:45:42 | |
| A starting point for the discussion because we have a lot of people that work for the city, first responders, teachers and they | 00:46:16 | |
| can't afford to live there. So that's a lot to get these people to be able to live in Vineyard. So and I believe this is something | 00:46:21 | |
| that the RDA board is, is is going to discuss and then consider. | 00:46:27 | |
| So from my understanding, all of these units would be rental units. | 00:46:38 | |
| None of them would be able to purchase. | 00:46:42 | |
| I'd say I don't. I don't want to set that in stone. | 00:46:45 | |
| OK, I just say that. | 00:46:50 | |
| If people are going to be invested in Vineyard, they want to live here. Paramedics, doctors, aunties and such. | 00:46:54 | |
| They're gonna want to buy a home. They're gonna. | 00:47:00 | |
| Have a permanent residence instead of renting. | 00:47:03 | |
| Hoping that your rent doesn't get raised, which it? | 00:47:07 | |
| And then it'll get raised and then I'll get raised, and then it becomes unaffordable. | 00:47:09 | |
| I was just said these will be deed restricted, so they'll always be tied to the area median income. | 00:47:14 | |
| I'd like to see units that people could purchase to buy. I want to see people that are invested in the city that they want to come | 00:47:25 | |
| here, they want to stay here, they want, they care about the place, and the easiest way for someone to feel invested is to | 00:47:30 | |
| actually invest in buying a home here. | 00:47:34 | |
| Yeah, condominiums, apartments that you can purchase, things like that. | 00:47:41 | |
| If it's just rentals, it's basically you're just saying, oh, these people are going to be here for a little while until they move | 00:47:45 | |
| into something that's better. | 00:47:49 | |
| I want. | 00:47:56 | |
| I want to say unison people can purchase so that they feel invested in the city. Does this agreement preclude the ability to do. | 00:47:57 | |
| No it doesn't. No. Yeah. And Bryce do you do you have kind of like a maybe are you just wanting them to to to come back with with | 00:48:04 | |
| maybe a proposal on that or do you have some maybe some direction as far as. | 00:48:10 | |
| As far as. | 00:48:21 | |
| As far as doing something like that, what What is? What can we even do? Because if if it's units, it can be. | 00:48:23 | |
| Sold. And investors can just buy the units and then rent them still, I mean. | 00:48:30 | |
| I'll just say I don't, we're not opposed to for sale. I just think it's going to take some market analysis and understanding that | 00:48:36 | |
| at the time that you're going out, how that's going to shake out construction costs and so. | 00:48:41 | |
| I don't know that what that looks like. I do know that when you go for sale, often it's harder to bring the same number. | 00:48:47 | |
| As it is on a four month basis, so. | 00:48:54 | |
| At least in past analysis and I need to analyze it again. But when you start to go for sale that gap. | 00:48:58 | |
| Of the sale price is harder to overcome in terms of number of units. So economically it's it's not like we can't say necessarily | 00:49:03 | |
| that we can sell 25 units and have the same economic impact as you know just developer donating 25 four rent. So I had a question | 00:49:09 | |
| to go along with what you're saying. | 00:49:15 | |
| Is there? | 00:49:23 | |
| And since you're kind of in this industry and maybe we need to research it, but if. | 00:49:25 | |
| A certain amount of the units are required to be for sale. Someone buys it. How do we ensure that? | 00:49:31 | |
| That it's being occupied by by the owner, Yeah. Because without having like a really large administrative kind of arm that that | 00:49:39 | |
| can ensure that. I don't know, maybe that's something that from the CCNR standpoint they can do. But we were told that, you know, | 00:49:44 | |
| at Edgewater. | 00:49:49 | |
| You know, that or the Lakefront Town Center. I think that was something that the city was told. | 00:49:56 | |
| That only a third of those would be rentals and they're not everyone you talk to. I mean I I know a few owners there, but it seems | 00:50:01 | |
| like probably 70 to 80%. You know just then I I don't know for sure, but just everyone I've talked to seems to be renters, but I | 00:50:07 | |
| don't know Steve or Jeff if you guys have kind of a response to that. But I I think that's. | 00:50:13 | |
| You know, is there a way that we can ensure that? | 00:50:20 | |
| That their own rocket? Yeah, that's the big question. Is there a way we can do that? But I think if we're talking affordability. | 00:50:23 | |
| 25 units. That's 1.6% of your total units. | 00:50:30 | |
| And I mean 25 is more than 0, but I mean it's 1.6% when you're talking about affordability, you're talking about people. | 00:50:34 | |
| That. | 00:50:44 | |
| People that can pay for a home. When you're stuck renting continuously forever, you're not. | 00:50:47 | |
| Gaining any generational wealth, you're not putting yourself in a situation where you're ever going to get out of that constant | 00:50:52 | |
| struggle of living paycheck to paycheck. Whereas if you can invest in a home, if you can invest in a place, you can start to get | 00:50:58 | |
| out of that. And there's a whole discussion that. | 00:51:03 | |
| That we can't get into here about about that but. | 00:51:11 | |
| I think just. | 00:51:15 | |
| I think having something finding some way to get some units that can be sold to people and not rented out. If there's anything | 00:51:17 | |
| that can be done, I don't know. | 00:51:21 | |
| That would be a huge. That would be a huge draw, I think. | 00:51:28 | |
| This location specifically. | 00:51:32 | |
| Because I'm sorry, it has to be in the microphone or? | 00:51:38 | |
| It's up to. It's up to the chair. I'm just. I apologize, but we. | 00:51:46 | |
| If you just want to just save it for, I'm going to open up the public comment in just a little bit here. Sorry, but thank you. | 00:51:52 | |
| Sorry, I'll just forget. | 00:51:57 | |
| Yeah, all right. What's your name? I'll write down your name, Hector. | 00:52:01 | |
| Hector agrees with Price. | 00:52:05 | |
| OK. If you guys have any comments on that? | 00:52:09 | |
| I think it's AI think it's a great idea. I think we got to go back and study what it means in terms of quantity like I said in | 00:52:14 | |
| just the economic impact, like I said, we know we're basically donating $5 million of value through the decreased rents in this | 00:52:18 | |
| 25. | 00:52:23 | |
| We know affordable housing is a hard solution, right? There's easy. People want to figure it out by now. | 00:52:28 | |
| We spent a lot of time pondering like 25, like is that going to feel, is that, is that going to feel genuine or? | 00:52:34 | |
| Umm. | 00:52:42 | |
| But honestly, as we look at it. | 00:52:43 | |
| Between the structured parking, the open space like between those two we're basically bringing $10 million to the deal right of of | 00:52:45 | |
| of added quality of of open space and $5 million of that is an affordable housing. | 00:52:52 | |
| And then we have even after the TIF. | 00:52:58 | |
| On structured parking. | 00:53:01 | |
| If you look at the the net present value of that. | 00:53:03 | |
| It only pays for. | 00:53:06 | |
| 2530% of the structured parking. And so the rest of that gets borne on us and we're going to be competing on rents of other people | 00:53:09 | |
| who don't have structured parking. | 00:53:13 | |
| You know Will would be able to charge a little bit more. I don't know. The point is when we looked at it. | 00:53:18 | |
| We worried about the economic viability of the project as a whole. It's, it's on probably hard to sound genuine on this, but it's | 00:53:23 | |
| it's on, it's on the margin of what we think will attract investor money to be able to develop it and build it. And so that's why | 00:53:28 | |
| that number is what it is. We wanted to be able to bring something. We knew there was a niche requirement or need within the | 00:53:34 | |
| community. We want to be able to address it and be community players. | 00:53:39 | |
| But that really did kind of feel like a limit where it started to push economic viability of the whole project if we push that too | 00:53:45 | |
| far, so. | 00:53:48 | |
| But when you've gotten into these these hybrid environments where it's a mix of management company were a lot of owner ownership | 00:54:24 | |
| and individually renting them out, you're ending up with people that are are four or five single people in a house. All of them | 00:54:30 | |
| have a car when they're supposed to be two parking spots. And I think that's the complexity here is if you had 1500 units and they | 00:54:37 | |
| were all owned which is great, but we know it's going to be investors that buy them, you know it's it's going to be pricey. | 00:54:43 | |
| And and you're gonna end up with a parking issue. So I think what we're doing here is trying to find that balance. | 00:54:50 | |
| But we're definitely getting a win I think of of even the affordable housing discussion. So there's there's valid discussion here | 00:54:56 | |
| of what do we want in the community and how do we balance the parking issue with the rental issue, with the ownership issue and | 00:55:02 | |
| and I just hope as we give public comments it reflects. | 00:55:08 | |
| Some of the opportunity we have here, because we're definitely giving a lot back to the developer of. It's a whole different | 00:55:14 | |
| change from what was originally approved there. But I think there's a willingness on all parties to figure out what can we do | 00:55:18 | |
| that's best for the community where everybody comes out a winner because the developer owns the property, they have property | 00:55:23 | |
| rights as well, and we don't want a vacant lot sitting there forever. | 00:55:27 | |
| I appreciate how seriously you took my request for affordable housing to be added. | 00:55:36 | |
| I like that. | 00:55:41 | |
| It will. | 00:55:44 | |
| They'll be targeted to. | 00:55:46 | |
| To. | 00:55:49 | |
| City employees. | 00:55:51 | |
| Live in the city? That's appreciated. | 00:55:53 | |
| I guess I would hope that. | 00:56:00 | |
| Can work with the city to find perhaps some federal funding for more affordable housing. | 00:56:04 | |
| I'm sitting here as a single mother of four and an 80% AMI. | 00:56:10 | |
| Is half my income. | 00:56:17 | |
| Uh. | 00:56:21 | |
| For a three bedroom place because. | 00:56:22 | |
| Can you Can you imagine 4 kids in one room not doing it? | 00:56:26 | |
| No, that's insanity. | 00:56:30 | |
| As. | 00:56:34 | |
| We move forward. | 00:56:35 | |
| I would love to see more consideration. | 00:56:37 | |
| Of the programs that are. | 00:56:41 | |
| So that we can expand this to more than just first responders in our city. | 00:56:44 | |
| Just more than just that. | 00:56:49 | |
| And I don't know. I think everyone deserves to have a nice place to live. | 00:56:51 | |
| But it's just me. Could we also add to it though? And I hate to be exclusion, you know, exclude other cities, but I'm sure in the | 00:56:55 | |
| future we'll have a fire department, we'll we'll have a police force. Is it possible to say that the first option is for those | 00:57:01 | |
| that not only are first responders but first responders serving? | 00:57:07 | |
| In the city of Vineyard and then beyond that it would open to others, but I prefer to. | 00:57:14 | |
| Have the people here that are actually serving in Vineyard, so it sounds like they were they already? Well, no, they they're still | 00:57:19 | |
| trying to find out if they can make it for firefighters and EMT and stuff in general. So like getting it down even more than that | 00:57:24 | |
| might be. | 00:57:29 | |
| I like for Housing Act. | 00:57:35 | |
| Preliminarily, our legal counsel has said he thinks it's possible, but there's more due diligence to be done on that. So I do want | 00:57:38 | |
| to make sure that's clear and disclose that we are willing to do it so long as it's legal. And if approved from the City side, | 00:57:44 | |
| we're definitely going to like let our officers go. And you know, we don't have our own fire department, but we contract with the | 00:57:49 | |
| ARM City and so. | 00:57:54 | |
| Yeah, yeah. I mean there's there's a time that we may. So I I think, I think you're right, it'd be great to have our folks. But | 00:58:01 | |
| you know, I think that might be on the city's city end by trying to let our employees and people that work in the city now. And we | 00:58:06 | |
| have met with affordable housing consultants on how could we further expand it. | 00:58:11 | |
| One of the challenges, there's something called a qualified census district and unfortunately this land is not in it. | 00:58:17 | |
| Highly discounts what those tax credits can be. | 00:58:23 | |
| And then you again, you add on the parking structure, it really becomes a challenge economically for a developer to come in and do | 00:58:29 | |
| that. If we were in the qualified census district district, I think maybe there would be a clearer way to make that happen. | 00:58:36 | |
| But we're not. | 00:58:43 | |
| Thank you. | 00:58:45 | |
| OK. Parking, we kind of already talked about it. Right now zoning requires 1 1/2 spaces per dwelling unit and there was concern, | 00:58:50 | |
| is that going to be enough? | 00:58:53 | |
| What we're proposing is not necessarily to solve all that, but for you to tell us what the primary concerns are. | 00:58:57 | |
| And we brought. | 00:59:03 | |
| And then in the development agreement bind us to bring a management plan that addresses those concerns and those objectives, so. | 00:59:05 | |
| Our plan is going to come with every site plan that we submit. We'll say this is the parking plan, right? Or at least it's got to | 00:59:11 | |
| be compliant with the parking plan that was submitted. | 00:59:16 | |
| And. | 00:59:20 | |
| We'll address things like permitting right? If if we if we only have this many parks installed, we can't issue more permits than | 00:59:22 | |
| that. How is monitoring enforcement going to work? How's the visitor parking designation on the garage going to work? | 00:59:27 | |
| And you know, as we submit a site plan, you always have to say this is the. | 00:59:33 | |
| This is how we meet. | 00:59:38 | |
| Right. And then we'll have this additional layer to also meet the parking plan. | 00:59:40 | |
| Right. We will have street parking as well along the streets. | 00:59:44 | |
| I will just note. | 00:59:48 | |
| In its full built out state. | 00:59:50 | |
| You know, again, our plan is to have office here. That office is all going to vacate. So my visitor, perspective and others. | 00:59:53 | |
| Right. There's some shared parking that overlaps, but there's still going to be excess parking in the evening. So a lot of the | 00:59:58 | |
| concern, I think that's happened a lot of places is evenings. | 01:00:02 | |
| And I think we. | 01:00:06 | |
| We'll have extra. | 01:00:08 | |
| Something that we're doing with the downtown area and is also something that I'd like to see here. | 01:00:13 | |
| First off, let me just say with some other developments that have come in, they've made big promises on management for parking | 01:00:19 | |
| and. | 01:00:23 | |
| And then they have just bounced, they've left and then HOA gets that is there, is stuck with it and they don't even have an idea | 01:00:28 | |
| of what they, the management promised and it's just been a nightmare for some of these developments that have gone in recently. | 01:00:34 | |
| With the downtown while we're doing a thing where basically. | 01:00:42 | |
| They can build X amount of units and then after that happens a parking study is done by an independent contractor and then. | 01:00:46 | |
| They assess if more or less parking needs to be done for development. So I think that that is definitely something that we would | 01:00:54 | |
| want to do. That's that's the kind of input we're hoping we could put into this plan. | 01:01:00 | |
| And then bind it and record it with the development agreement. | 01:01:06 | |
| Perfect. | 01:01:11 | |
| And we could. | 01:01:12 | |
| If you want that, that's something that. | 01:01:14 | |
| From a staff side, we can look at maybe what a number I might look at, OK. But I love that suggestion because again it would give | 01:01:16 | |
| you real site conditions. So if it's 200 units or whatever you study that you know, OK, those 200 units are requiring. | 01:01:23 | |
| You know, two spaces per unit or three spaces per unit and then that would automatically adjust the parking code, move forward. I | 01:01:31 | |
| think what that also does is it puts a lot of responsibility on the developer that they manage the parking. | 01:01:37 | |
| Very efficiently, right at the front end. And that's what we've found kind of like Chris brought up is the the developers that | 01:01:44 | |
| have managed parking. | 01:01:47 | |
| Early on I've been a lot more successful. We have had others that had to catch up and it took several years like the alloy and the | 01:01:51 | |
| concord, but they're now they're actually doing fairly well. They're probably still some issues, but it's way less than what it | 01:01:57 | |
| used to be. So management is, is key, but that's something we can work on if you'd like. I think it's a fair ***. | 01:02:02 | |
| We don't need to keep perpetuating a problem. | 01:02:10 | |
| But I think last time it was brought up like people are starting to, you know. | 01:02:14 | |
| With a 2 bedroom apartment starting to get four cars right because housing prices are driving up and people are starting to bunk | 01:02:19 | |
| up a little bit more and again I think the parking permit. | 01:02:23 | |
| Would mitigate a lot of that as well, that two-bedroom. | 01:02:28 | |
| Two parking passes? Done. | 01:02:31 | |
| So. | 01:02:34 | |
| I guess going off of parking one of my big concerns. | 01:02:35 | |
| Is transportation in general. We have the downtown plan that's come in and they've got the. | 01:02:39 | |
| Bus transit. They are right next to the track station. | 01:02:45 | |
| But here, there's no rapid transit, there's no bus station there, There's not even a sidewalk that goes to the current train | 01:02:50 | |
| station now. | 01:02:54 | |
| And that's a big concern for me. | 01:02:59 | |
| This wants to be a walkable area. | 01:03:04 | |
| Getting on public transport is difficult. I know that's something that's out of your guys's hands, but. | 01:03:07 | |
| It just needs to be said that that's a big concern. | 01:03:13 | |
| If we can support any way of pedestrian walkway through, I would always love to EU campus and then walk over would be be | 01:03:16 | |
| brilliant, but we would support that in any way that we can. But. | 01:03:21 | |
| To me the right well we're coming to you is saying can we, can we change the use from what it was. | 01:03:28 | |
| To what we're proposing. | 01:03:35 | |
| And we've shared with Morgan today the traffic impact study that was shared and and their basic conclusion is. | 01:03:37 | |
| Versus the current entitlement. | 01:03:43 | |
| The traffic impact is less, right if we were to build out the 1.8 million square feet with 1.1 being office. | 01:03:46 | |
| In 1000 square feet you have, you know, four to five workers. Each of those have a car and 1000 square foot apartment. | 01:03:52 | |
| You know you got two cars and, and the dispersion of those trips are quite a bit different. It's not 8 to 5, everybody leaves at | 01:03:58 | |
| 5:00. So the the impact of the level of service on certain intersections is actually reduced. | 01:04:03 | |
| By adding the residential versus, you know, a heavier office use. | 01:04:09 | |
| And. | 01:04:14 | |
| You know, vineyards, the traffic's not going to be solved easy and there's lots of mitigations outlined in the in the traffic | 01:04:15 | |
| impact study. But overall, what we're proposing is actually a benefit to traffic versus the current entitlement, if that makes | 01:04:20 | |
| sense. | 01:04:24 | |
| That probably won't make any sense to anybody waiting 5 minutes to get through you know the connections and get the trailer | 01:04:30 | |
| section. | 01:04:32 | |
| But that's. | 01:04:35 | |
| So that's what the engineer came back. And yeah, I understand that it makes sense. | 01:04:37 | |
| With if there's a bunch of office space, everybody leaves at the same time, it's crowded. | 01:04:43 | |
| But also with the amount of residential units and the lack of office space in Vineyard, they're going different directions at | 01:04:48 | |
| different times. | 01:04:52 | |
| So if there was a bunch of office space and a bunch of retail and whatever. | 01:04:55 | |
| People would be coming into vineyard while the people that are in vineyard that work outside of vineyard would be leaving | 01:05:00 | |
| vineyard. | 01:05:02 | |
| And. | 01:05:07 | |
| Maybe. | 01:05:07 | |
| That's addressed in the study that you guys did? | 01:05:08 | |
| Right. | 01:05:13 | |
| I can't see how it would send. The flows are different, yeah, the flows are different directions. | 01:05:15 | |
| If if it's a higher mix, like more square footage of office, then you would get more capture of trips. As far as like multiple | 01:05:23 | |
| trips, maybe someone parks. | 01:05:27 | |
| Or or they're they're close enough so that so they walk and so that's a trip that's that's captured they're having to. So not | 01:05:33 | |
| necessarily not what I'm saying is that. | 01:05:38 | |
| The trips. | 01:05:46 | |
| Going out versus the trips that are coming in the. | 01:05:48 | |
| Times that are difficult to get into Vineyard. | 01:05:51 | |
| 5:00 and the biggest time to get out of Vineyard is 8:00. | 01:05:54 | |
| And it would just be the opposite, that people are coming in at 8:00 instead of going out and when people are leaving. | 01:05:59 | |
| At 5:00 instead of coming in. So it's just the traffic is going different directions. There's more traffic, but it's. | 01:06:08 | |
| We would need our traffic engineer to answer that for sure, and why, why they came to the conclusion they did. | 01:06:14 | |
| Just knowing that more people are leaving means the light can't be green for all those that are coming as much, right? Like I | 01:06:20 | |
| don't know how that math shakes out exactly. I think your your questions really really good, but. | 01:06:24 | |
| Just knowing that you got to push more people through it means this green lights got to be open longer to let the office people | 01:06:29 | |
| out. Probably still has an impact, but I don't know how that shakes out. Yeah, I'd be interested to know kind of if if you could | 01:06:33 | |
| ask them. | 01:06:37 | |
| Get your comments like organized if you can. | 01:07:11 | |
| It's, it's great. I'm excited that you guys all have comments and that is great. | 01:07:15 | |
| But if. | 01:07:20 | |
| Direct you can be the easier it is for us. We're going to try to write down questions that you have. We're not going to do a whole | 01:07:22 | |
| lot of back and forth. We're going to ask questions and go from there. | 01:07:26 | |
| If you could try to keep it within 3 minutes, that would be super helpful. So yeah, state your name and yeah. | 01:07:32 | |
| My name, Hector Hernandez. I live here in the city of Vineyard, obviously. | 01:07:39 | |
| Everybody who knows me knows that. | 01:07:43 | |
| I'm a parking guy. Parking is a nightmare. | 01:07:46 | |
| I lived in a city, obviously in on the East Coast. | 01:07:52 | |
| We didn't do any building out there unless parking was taken care of 100%. | 01:07:56 | |
| We've. | 01:08:03 | |
| Because of the amount of high density in Vineyard and where we live, I live in the springs right next to the preserve, the other | 01:08:08 | |
| gentleman who was here from the preserve. | 01:08:13 | |
| And a nightmare. The HOA and the UP are against all the residents. We're at the mercy of them. I have a personal experience in our | 01:08:18 | |
| new city manager can testify as to what I had, but I don't have time to go into that now. But. | 01:08:28 | |
| I work in the city, I have clients throughout all the city, and I don't know of anybody that I've met in five years that want any | 01:08:41 | |
| more high density. Of course, I'm not against. | 01:08:48 | |
| Improvement. Growth. Some high densities. | 01:08:54 | |
| Necessary, but we have too much already. | 01:08:58 | |
| This plan looks very beautiful and we and we thank you guys for the seven years on the East Coast it took 20 years to get to. | 01:09:02 | |
| Brand new parking. | 01:09:12 | |
| Parking station and station from Trenton to the city of Manhattan took 20 years from concept to to final. You know, final. | 01:09:15 | |
| Parking. | 01:09:26 | |
| And station. | 01:09:27 | |
| My other comment Bryce, I've been thinking of selling my house in the springs to buy a higher end apartment building in the either | 01:09:31 | |
| the the the Town Center. | 01:09:37 | |
| Or even here, but in under this option I don't have that option to actually buy. | 01:09:44 | |
| I've seen the difference between owner, occupied. | 01:09:49 | |
| And rentals. And the difference is huge. It's a big issue here, parking. | 01:09:53 | |
| Um. | 01:10:00 | |
| I got towed the other day. Not me personally. My family got towed. Who was moving out of town. | 01:10:02 | |
| We got up to where I was picking up EU Haul truck with their car behind it and there was a boot I had to break the boot off. | 01:10:08 | |
| I called the towing company right away. I told him, Hey, I'm sorry, I know I did this wrong, but I'll pay for the boot and I had | 01:10:18 | |
| to go through a whole struggle. | 01:10:23 | |
| To stop the UPE. | 01:10:31 | |
| From threatening me that I was under criminal action, I had sent a letter to our H. | 01:10:36 | |
| I had put my permit in the windshield. | 01:10:45 | |
| None of that worked, so my issue is with parking obviously. | 01:10:48 | |
| If you could just be brief on other things. | 01:10:54 | |
| I guess my my my main thought is that. | 01:10:59 | |
| Nobody that I know really wants. | 01:11:03 | |
| Anymore high density some is necessary. | 01:11:06 | |
| Obviously. | 01:11:10 | |
| The city and a lot of the residents are very, very upset at the city. | 01:11:12 | |
| Whether it's the Planning Commission, the City Council, the mayor. | 01:11:18 | |
| Some of the people who work in there that they continue to go high density, high density, high density. | 01:11:23 | |
| I know in the Town Center and I don't know the specifics, the builder has the option to go from 20% residential up to as much as | 01:11:29 | |
| 80%. | 01:11:34 | |
| Those numbers can be challenged I'm sure, but it's somewhere in the in the contract there that in the end our Town Center could | 01:11:40 | |
| end up being 80% residential. | 01:11:45 | |
| Very little stores. So we want progress. We want you know to go forward at a higher at a higher rate, faster with retail and | 01:11:51 | |
| commercial. | 01:11:57 | |
| We have issues. Thank you, Hector. | 01:12:06 | |
| Hi everybody. David Wright, Holloway Rd. | 01:12:21 | |
| Long time no see. | 01:12:24 | |
| Hey I want to make some comments on this moment. I've tried to organize a little bit but it be a little scattered sorry parking. | 01:12:27 | |
| You know, as you've heard, it's the biggest deal. | 01:12:37 | |
| It's really insane to calculate to expect people to have one point $5 per unit. The worst parking problems we have right now are | 01:12:40 | |
| in Edgewater. | 01:12:45 | |
| And they planned 1.1. | 01:12:49 | |
| And that's just and people actually have to go out and park in Fields. | 01:12:52 | |
| You know, half mile away and walk. | 01:12:56 | |
| It's not workable. | 01:12:59 | |
| Understand that we live in a university town. | 01:13:01 | |
| You say where is it? Was Utah Valley University they own at. Probably a third of the land is still available for development right | 01:13:05 | |
| now. | 01:13:08 | |
| And it's going to get built. | 01:13:12 | |
| Plus, we already have plenty of students. | 01:13:15 | |
| We've had problems already because we've talked about that already. You'll have an investor buying a unit and then rent it out to | 01:13:18 | |
| students. | 01:13:21 | |
| And the investors out of state doesn't care. He's got 3 bedrooms. OK, that's six. That's six students. That's income. | 01:13:25 | |
| Just like you're trying to figure out what will be. | 01:13:32 | |
| Make himself money. | 01:13:36 | |
| And he's going to pack it like crazy, just like you're doing here. | 01:13:38 | |
| Wrong. | 01:13:43 | |
| 1.45 dollars is not enough. | 01:13:44 | |
| You got a plan for the fact that if not right now. | 01:13:47 | |
| At least in 10 years. | 01:13:51 | |
| That's going to be student. | 01:13:52 | |
| So make the adjustment now if you can please. | 01:13:56 | |
| Hopefully you won't have to. Hopefully you won't build. | 01:13:59 | |
| If you really want to help. | 01:14:01 | |
| You'll give us some commercials and. | 01:14:03 | |
| For heaven's sake, a grocery store will be nice. | 01:14:06 | |
| That's what Vineyard needs. I know you need money and you need to build to get it. I get it. And the way to get you the fastest | 01:14:09 | |
| money is to put people there. | 01:14:13 | |
| But that's not what the town. | 01:14:18 | |
| So be aware of that. That's a that's a large large. | 01:14:22 | |
| Man, that's going around. | 01:14:28 | |
| So, Mary, quite welcome. | 01:14:31 | |
| Urban wall that works the wall in the yard. | 01:14:37 | |
| You know, so everyone uses the back door of all the businesses. | 01:14:41 | |
| Because the parking lots got behind and they build the front doors along the narrow St. with a few little parking stalls for | 01:14:44 | |
| looks. | 01:14:48 | |
| And everyone comes in the back door. | 01:14:52 | |
| It's just I mean it just doesn't work. | 01:14:54 | |
| I know the kind of the concept was well, we want to be a walkable city and make us less the front door, but no one walks here in | 01:14:57 | |
| the winter, which is 6 months out of the year. | 01:15:01 | |
| And very few people walk the rest of time of year because most of the people live here are young families. | 01:15:05 | |
| What Mom wants to unbuckle her three? | 01:15:12 | |
| And and grab them, you know, through the parking lot everywhere else, you know, to go shopping here. | 01:15:15 | |
| People will go to businesses where it's convenient for them. | 01:15:21 | |
| If we make it in the. | 01:15:25 | |
| They'll go somewhere else and we lose those tax dollars. | 01:15:27 | |
| So it's important for us to try to make things convenient for the people who do live here. | 01:15:33 | |
| Who actually want to stay? | 01:15:37 | |
| Who actually invest in the town like Bryce talked about? | 01:15:39 | |
| And actually want to stay here and make it better. | 01:15:43 | |
| So. | 01:15:49 | |
| We gotta find a way to do that, and this isn't. | 01:15:52 | |
| So why residential at all? | 01:15:56 | |
| There's at least 3500 units in that same general area. | 01:15:59 | |
| They're only there. | 01:16:03 | |
| I mean, yeah, much started alloy down there, they got 600 units, you're off the side and so forth they go 606 hundred 300. | 01:16:06 | |
| You add them all up. | 01:16:13 | |
| Edgewater and so forth. There are thousands of units right there already. | 01:16:15 | |
| And they were all built to be. | 01:16:21 | |
| Low cost UN. | 01:16:23 | |
| They're going to be, you know, introductory places where families will start to be their first home if they could either buy a | 01:16:25 | |
| condo or rent for a while. | 01:16:28 | |
| Why don't those work? | 01:16:33 | |
| The same thing will happen here. You'll be able to find product. | 01:16:37 | |
| And within a year or two, it was like the others. | 01:16:40 | |
| Make your last comments real brief, David. Thank you. | 01:16:46 | |
| Those 25 affordable units. | 01:16:51 | |
| Well, my great student housing goodness, don't you think? | 01:16:53 | |
| Thanks, David. | 01:16:57 | |
| Hello, thank you. My name is Daria Evans and I am a resident of Vineyard. | 01:17:10 | |
| And I have some questions that I would like to have answered. I'll write down your questions and then I'll. | 01:17:15 | |
| When he was doing his presentation, he mentioned retail. I would like to know what kind of retail that is. | 01:17:25 | |
| I would like to know where the possible public safety building would be going and what it would. | 01:17:34 | |
| Entail. | 01:17:40 | |
| This the Central Shared St. | 01:17:43 | |
| I would like to know how they how FedEx, UPS, RC, Willey trucks. | 01:17:48 | |
| Get access to these people who live. | 01:17:55 | |
| To drop their packages off or, you know, deliver. | 01:17:59 | |
| Are those streets really wide enough? Especially if it's a shared street? When you have residents or people walking along, it's | 01:18:02 | |
| only four miles an hour. How? How is that going to work? | 01:18:07 | |
| Can you guarantee you're talking about? | 01:18:14 | |
| People coming to live there, can you guarantee that first responders, EMT's, these kind of people are really going to want to live | 01:18:17 | |
| here? | 01:18:21 | |
| Umm. | 01:18:26 | |
| How many one bedroom, 2 bedroom, 3 bedroom units are you planning on? I'd like to know that. | 01:18:27 | |
| And the parking structured. | 01:18:34 | |
| Several levels. | 01:18:39 | |
| And how many stalls will be? | 01:18:41 | |
| Or is it going to be a street side with a cover over it? | 01:18:44 | |
| I'd like to know what that all entails. I really want to see the aesthetics of it. | 01:18:49 | |
| And they mentioned a possible hotel in the first. | 01:18:56 | |
| I'd like to know what is the draw for the hotel at this time when we have hotels just on by Winco Maverick for there. | 01:19:00 | |
| And. | 01:19:09 | |
| The Planning Commission meeting on January 4th. | 01:19:14 | |
| Page 12190. | 01:19:18 | |
| 15.3 point 6.030 point 1/2 is talking about views. | 01:19:20 | |
| It says due to the community quality and character created by the scenic beauty, it is essential that the city and all | 01:19:27 | |
| subdivisions and site plans. | 01:19:32 | |
| Designs preserve general access to significant views. These views include Mount Timpanogos, Provo Canyon, West Mountain, Utah | 01:19:37 | |
| Lake. | 01:19:41 | |
| Heights need to be well below a maximum permitted height. So that's my next question. What is the maximum height you're planning | 01:19:47 | |
| to build these? | 01:19:51 | |
| Structures. | 01:19:55 | |
| And will it comply? And will this continue? | 01:19:58 | |
| Will this be in? | 01:20:01 | |
| Future subdivisions. Will that continue on? Those are my questions. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. | 01:20:03 | |
| 3 seconds. | 01:20:13 | |
| My name is Don Olverson. I live on Pintail. | 01:20:20 | |
| I. | 01:20:23 | |
| Couple statements in. | 01:20:26 | |
| Number one, in my previous life we were designing the expansion of Geneva Rd. | 01:20:28 | |
| UDOT said they would only. | 01:20:35 | |
| The railroad. | 01:20:38 | |
| Nothing past the rail record or? | 01:20:40 | |
| That question you had about whether or not? | 01:20:43 | |
| And that did include a trail. | 01:20:45 | |
| So that's all part of. | 01:20:47 | |
| Original plan now whether they? | 01:20:49 | |
| Redesign. | 01:20:51 | |
| Either right or there. | 01:20:53 | |
| The question I had was. | 01:20:56 | |
| If you would go to surface parking, how many units could you get? | 01:20:59 | |
| In your area without ever putting. | 01:21:03 | |
| Parking structures in there. | 01:21:11 | |
| Is that? | 01:21:15 | |
| I know that you're saying that you need. | 01:21:16 | |
| You know, if you had surface parking, then you wouldn't. | 01:21:19 | |
| Add the additional. | 01:21:23 | |
| But I want to know how many units you could actually do there. | 01:21:26 | |
| OK. | 01:21:29 | |
| And the third. | 01:21:30 | |
| Are we changing the zoning ordinance? | 01:21:34 | |
| Agreeing to the development agreement. | 01:21:39 | |
| Because the zoning ordinance is what basically says one third 2/3. | 01:21:42 | |
| I wasn't sure of that. | 01:21:48 | |
| So, So Jan a development agreement changed the zoning ordinance or do you have to go through a zoning process? | 01:21:51 | |
| So. | 01:21:59 | |
| Putting the cart before the horse here, sorry. | 01:22:01 | |
| All right. Thank you, Don. | 01:22:04 | |
| Comments from the public. | 01:22:12 | |
| All right. | 01:22:17 | |
| Get into asking these questions then. | 01:22:19 | |
| Starting I guess just with don't questions as far as surface parking, how many units would you guys be able to do it? Like where | 01:22:23 | |
| would you guys be at if you didn't have to do the parking structures? | 01:22:28 | |
| How would this plan change I guess? | 01:22:34 | |
| Well, that's a good question. | 01:22:46 | |
| 20. | 01:22:49 | |
| I mean, again, it gets back to the residential mix, but I guess I'll just give some metrics out there like. | 01:22:53 | |
| 25 to 30 maybe if you go 4 store maybe you can get a little bit more units per acre. It's kind of a common for garden style walk | 01:22:59 | |
| up. | 01:23:03 | |
| Right. We said there's 21 acres of development pads used to make it. Do the math on that, but. | 01:23:08 | |
| I mean, if the structured parking requirement would be removed, the character of the whole development could be quite different. | 01:23:14 | |
| You know, there was a discussion of. | 01:23:21 | |
| We could bring grocery if if that was removed it's hard in this urban environment to attract them in the same way. So it's it's | 01:23:23 | |
| it's a different story. We've always assumed in in in working with staff that the structured parking. | 01:23:29 | |
| Is is going to? | 01:23:36 | |
| So we haven't studied it in depth. | 01:23:39 | |
| I guess a question for staff that would kind of. | 01:23:43 | |
| Coming off of that is. | 01:23:46 | |
| Why? Why do we want the surface parking? Or why do we not want surface parking? And we want the structures and the highest and | 01:23:49 | |
| best use. Remember when this zone was created, it was to be an activity zone. | 01:23:54 | |
| A an economic development area for the city and it was intended to be urban mixed uses. You create that sense of place by by | 01:24:00 | |
| densifying uses together by doing surface parking like if you look a lot of shopping centers those are just automobile type | 01:24:06 | |
| centers where that you're going to drive to when you have building set very far back with the field of parking Also from an | 01:24:12 | |
| environmental standpoint there's tons of runoff. Those are things that that that you can treat but overall you do get a much | 01:24:19 | |
| better. | 01:24:25 | |
| Product in terms of the value for land highest investigators. It's also how you achieve walkability is you mix uses together and | 01:24:31 | |
| you can do that way more effectively with structured parking than you can surface parking. Surface parking spreads everything. | 01:24:39 | |
| So. | 01:24:46 | |
| OK. Thanks and then. | 01:24:48 | |
| Are we changing the zoning ordinance as no. The development agreement allows allows the city to basically use the zoning warrants | 01:24:50 | |
| as the baseline but then it allows you to to to fine tune and to agree to things above and beyond the the the zoning code. That's | 01:24:56 | |
| why during the. | 01:25:01 | |
| You know there are RMU code. When we did the additional units, we put down the code but we didn't need to. I mean you can do the | 01:25:08 | |
| development agreement is kind of the the layered agreement on top of the zoning that allows the the the City Council to to to | 01:25:14 | |
| negotiate. | 01:25:19 | |
| You know details of prop projects. And so yeah, this is something we did have our attorney Jamie a blank so you can look at and he | 01:25:26 | |
| felt that his owning that a development agreement was was sufficient. | 01:25:31 | |
| And then going to Daria's questions, what retail do you guys expect in an area? | 01:25:38 | |
| It's going to. | 01:25:46 | |
| Market driven to some extent, right. The the purpose of this is to outline a master plan not right, not a lot of those questions | 01:25:47 | |
| were site plan. We will come back with site plans. They'll have many of the details that were asked on that but. | 01:25:53 | |
| You know, we see dining, we see seated dining around the central Plaza. | 01:26:00 | |
| We. | 01:26:05 | |
| We've really worked hard, like I said, to attract a grocer with the structured parking. We're having some challenges, but we're | 01:26:07 | |
| we're still in pursuit of that. | 01:26:11 | |
| Jeff, feel free to add in but. | 01:26:17 | |
| Some some fitness would be great on that ground floor dining, small retail. | 01:26:20 | |
| You know, we we see people going to the movie and coming over to the forge and and you know, dining, eating desserts, those kind | 01:26:27 | |
| of things. | 01:26:30 | |
| Quick question on the grocer. | 01:26:34 | |
| Is it possible if you guys were to bring in a grocer that we could put something in that says that they don't have to use | 01:26:39 | |
| structured parsing the structured parking for a grocery store? | 01:26:44 | |
| Because I think that. | 01:26:49 | |
| That just having a grocery store period would be a huge. | 01:26:51 | |
| Right. They would start to meet the requirements for the setbacks and, you know, coming up to up to the street. | 01:26:55 | |
| The the grocer that they they may be talking about. I've talked to them about this, the same site. | 01:27:03 | |
| And they they want a suburban grocery store fill the park in the front. There are others that that we're working with that are | 01:27:09 | |
| very interested in the city that that are willing to do more of an urban mixed-use site. | 01:27:16 | |
| And so that's you know so it some of them are willing to do it and others they have their their kind of the more suburban template | 01:27:23 | |
| that they that they don't really want to move off from. Is it possible to put something in this that would allow for a? | 01:27:30 | |
| So if they're willing to follow kind of those design considerations, I think you definitely could do surface parking. If they're | 01:28:12 | |
| willing to do it this, this amount of surface parking that we did ask for, I think it does outline that development agreement that | 01:28:18 | |
| along this corner there could be some surface parking was intended to attract a grocer. | 01:28:24 | |
| OK. Because I think anything we can do? | 01:28:32 | |
| In this area, anything we can add to this development agreement to attract a grocery? | 01:28:34 | |
| Something that we would want to do and we're not done in that pursuit. I don't want, I don't want to indicate that it would just | 01:28:40 | |
| we just hit strike one that's all. Yeah. And the city doesn't have the position of like absolutely no to a grocery store on the | 01:28:46 | |
| site. I mean if there's, I mean it's one of those things that if they can meet us in the middle like I definitely think that we | 01:28:52 | |
| would we would do what we could do to attract a grocery store there. But what we don't want is. | 01:28:58 | |
| You know, just a giant field of parking. I mean there there's other places in the city that we've been pointing developers to. You | 01:29:05 | |
| do have the bifurcation of the railroad, which makes the overall, you know, customer. | 01:29:10 | |
| You know, Circle, they're, they're they're kind of where they want to pull 80% of their customers from. It makes it a little bit | 01:29:18 | |
| more difficult. | 01:29:21 | |
| So, but yeah, we word that we're. | 01:29:26 | |
| That's a huge priority for for us when we meet probably. | 01:29:29 | |
| You know, twice a month I would say with a different group, groceries, we have several that were in constant conversations with | 01:29:33 | |
| and we've done a lot of mop ups of different sites of how how could look. | 01:29:37 | |
| And. | 01:29:43 | |
| The priority and something just to add to that, having a grocery store in this area. | 01:29:44 | |
| Makes the area so much more walkable for this and for the other places which. | 01:29:51 | |
| If we're trying to get rockable, we need to get as many of the things that you need. A place that you can work, a place that you | 01:29:58 | |
| can eat, a place that you can grocery shop and transportation, public transportation are those things that you need for it to be a | 01:30:04 | |
| truly walkable area and health services. | 01:30:09 | |
| OK. Next question was a public safety building. I guess to answer that, we're trying to get a fire department of some sort there. | 01:30:20 | |
| I don't know if we're at the the point where we want to say that the spot, but we definitely are working with them on a spot. I | 01:30:25 | |
| just I just don't want to say until I mean typically. | 01:30:31 | |
| You know you don't want to disclose that stuff until you've you've, you know, I mean we're supposed to, but yeah, we're definitely | 01:30:36 | |
| looking at a site in the in the. | 01:30:40 | |
| And then trucks on a shared street. I guess to answer that the way a shared St. usually works is. | 01:30:45 | |
| It's usually a different pavement type and. | 01:30:52 | |
| You can go there and you can park there. If your car is like still on, they could make drop offs, but it's not a place that you | 01:30:56 | |
| park, it's a place that you drive 5 mph. It's very. | 01:31:01 | |
| Uh. | 01:31:06 | |
| A shared street is you feel uncomfortable driving on it, but if you're making a delivery then it's. | 01:31:07 | |
| Then and I would just add that the primary delivery points would not be along the third stream, yeah. | 01:31:13 | |
| Sure you can. Yeah. I'll let you follow up real quick. | 01:31:22 | |
| You gotta come to the mic. You gotta be the microphone. | 01:31:25 | |
| Trying to get your steps in for you today. | 01:31:30 | |
| Sorry, the mic got moved over here. | 01:31:34 | |
| Here can you handle your mic there? | 01:31:36 | |
| Thank you. | 01:31:42 | |
| So. | 01:31:44 | |
| Just Orient me where would these? | 01:31:46 | |
| Part to deliver furniture. | 01:31:50 | |
| Drop off packages, you know. | 01:31:53 | |
| Grocery items that they have. | 01:31:56 | |
| You know. | 01:31:59 | |
| Where do these people do that? How do they access those homes? | 01:32:00 | |
| The way that this looks, I just yeah, see. | 01:32:07 | |
| So we're not into the nitty gritty yet of how the buildings are designed and that that's going to play a huge role in in something | 01:32:10 | |
| like that. If the entrance to a building is in one spot, I'm sure that they would have some kind of parking designated for | 01:32:16 | |
| something like that, but that's all the nitty gritty stuff that's yeah, I'd say. | 01:32:22 | |
| Provide freight elevators for people to take up their furniture Again you. | 01:32:31 | |
| So I'll just add, we're dealing. | 01:32:38 | |
| And that's when the Planning Commission will look up flow and traffic and then they'll look at like, you know, making sure there's | 01:33:14 | |
| spots for delivery trucks. OK. Thanks area. Thank you. And then the last question about the hotel. | 01:33:20 | |
| Yeah, I have. You've got like five more that I'm going to ask still, so. | 01:33:25 | |
| The guaranteed people, if they want to live there, that's just impossible to say. If if they're awesome, then maybe. But the place | 01:33:31 | |
| I want to live is different than the place that Anthony wants to live, and it's just going to be different for everybody. I would | 01:33:35 | |
| want to live in a single family home. Somebody would want to live in an apartment. So it's just hard to say if a paramedic would | 01:33:40 | |
| want to live in a specific spot. | 01:33:45 | |
| I do. I want to make a comment on that though, because we do know in Utah there is a, there is a housing shortage. People are are | 01:33:50 | |
| literally going and applying to multiple apartments. They they definitely can't afford a house. They're trying to get somewhere. | 01:33:56 | |
| There is a housing housing shortage on the Wasatch Front and we know over the next 20 years it's only going to get worse. | 01:34:02 | |
| I don't know that. I know what off the top of my head. I don't want to, I don't want to mistaken. They'll probably be an updated | 01:34:43 | |
| market study before we finalize the site plan that. | 01:34:46 | |
| That would lock that in, but we'll certainly bring that as part of the site plan for sure. OK. And then I. | 01:34:51 | |
| To answer your question Daria, about the parking structures, it would be like a wrapped they would wrap the parking structure with | 01:34:59 | |
| the units like residential units. I don't know if you've seen it like the University Mall. | 01:35:04 | |
| Where they have a parking structure and then they have units around it. They also have some at UVU where they've done something | 01:35:10 | |
| similar to that. Is there anything, am I getting that right? | 01:35:15 | |
| As far as what I understood from you guys and that's the intended topography that we would multifamily. | 01:35:20 | |
| And then permanent high, currently it's permitted to go up to like 120 feet. | 01:35:27 | |
| I think even 14140, So this plan was adopted in 2000 and. | 01:35:33 | |
| 15 or 14, yeah. So that plan for the forge got adopted in 2014 or 15 and the height for that was 120 feet. They were expecting to | 01:35:39 | |
| have large residential units, so. | 01:35:45 | |
| They could go up to 120 feet, but from the sounds of it though, they're only planning on doing 5, maybe six story. | 01:35:52 | |
| Like Jeff mentioned earlier, office is probably more likely to go higher than yeah we are kind of pushing from just that you know | 01:35:58 | |
| so like at that N that northeast corner making that a more prominent ability not necessarily like 14 stories or anything that | 01:36:05 | |
| having having that that be like a really nice architecture gateway story that has some presence on that corner. | 01:36:12 | |
| And then just for comparison, how tall are the top go? | 01:36:20 | |
| I. | 01:36:29 | |
| Let's pull I think they're 120. | 01:36:29 | |
| Reference. | 01:36:33 | |
| Like I live in Cascade and my Rd. looks straight down the top Golf and I mean it doesn't impede my, I think it like I can see up | 01:36:35 | |
| to like essentially the top foothills of Vineyard and maybe just the start of the foothills of Provo. So if that's if it's that's | 01:36:42 | |
| actually yeah that's a really good point. I mean that's if that's 120 it's definitely not for anybody that's on the essentially | 01:36:49 | |
| the residential farther area that's going to be I guess West of this I I highly doubt it would affect. | 01:36:56 | |
| 50 Oh yeah. So it's definitely, even if they've maxed it out, anybody that's on the other side. | 01:37:04 | |
| It shouldn't have an impact on our views of the mountains. | 01:37:12 | |
| And then her last comment was the draw for hotel. You guys were saying you want to do that in the first phase? | 01:37:16 | |
| She was asking what? | 01:37:23 | |
| And. | 01:37:27 | |
| I'll just say, I mean we've done some initial studies on it and you know looking at occupancy in the area. | 01:37:29 | |
| Umm. | 01:37:36 | |
| You know brings commercial to the area early on and so. | 01:37:37 | |
| It feels like something would like to do. It's not without its challenges. It'll certainly be easier when it's all built out and | 01:37:42 | |
| there's Office and all that around it, but. | 01:37:45 | |
| But based on the occupancy in the market evaluation, you know we hope that we can make that work and then we met with a, just to | 01:37:50 | |
| add a little more to that, we met with the three different hotel. | 01:37:56 | |
| Analysts was people in their whole careers studying the viability hotels. | 01:38:02 | |
| And what they said is Vineyard, is that definitely a good market even though you have hotels around, even just having units in the | 01:38:08 | |
| more housing units you have generates a need for hotels and people come visit, people remodel, they need a place to stay, the | 01:38:14 | |
| employment, just having employment they say yeah, you got, we have a very healthy flex office market right now. We're close to | 01:38:20 | |
| 1,000,000 square feet of employment on the north side and no one really considers that part of it, but it is. | 01:38:26 | |
| And those are doing really well. And so I I'd say like the need, the needs definitely there we've heard, I mean it might be a | 01:38:33 | |
| matter of like how many keys. | 01:38:37 | |
| You know that the style and what? What type. | 01:38:42 | |
| Maybe deter some people from illegally Airbnb being their. | 01:39:23 | |
| So, so yeah. | 01:39:28 | |
| OK. Any other questions from you guys right now? | 01:39:33 | |
| I have a question. So so imagine this was from scratch and you didn't have to do structured parking. What would you view as the | 01:39:38 | |
| best use? | 01:39:43 | |
| Because it sounds like a grocer would come more easily want to come in if there was something else being done there, so I'm | 01:39:49 | |
| interested in know what actually is. | 01:39:53 | |
| From fresh something else that you would do. | 01:39:58 | |
| I was going to legit answer that one. There's a loader, you don't have to answer it either. But but I mean I I feel like it was | 01:40:04 | |
| alluded to that, you know, this may not totally appeal to all grocers there. There may be other things and you've been put in this | 01:40:10 | |
| direction, but there's a lot of interest here from the public. So what what is it that that could have been on the table? | 01:40:16 | |
| Well, I guess what I would say from the start we we were to Morgan's Point where we're looking for the highest and best use and we | 01:40:22 | |
| wanted to create density and. | 01:40:27 | |
| The city was on board with that and. | 01:40:32 | |
| So that was really our intent was to create a nice dense urban mixed-use project that would be right at the gateway to the city. | 01:40:36 | |
| And so I don't think we would change, we knew. | 01:40:42 | |
| To get these suburban grocers, we knew they wouldn't fit, most likely, and you know, unless we found the right one, we've been | 01:40:49 | |
| talking to a number of them that are. | 01:40:54 | |
| The smaller, smaller scale, almost like a hormones come up with small stores and we've been trying to talk to them about it. | 01:40:58 | |
| So there's still a possibility that could happen as Steve mentioned earlier, we haven't given. | 01:41:08 | |
| But to get for the one that we've been talking about that was really wants to be in Vineyard. | 01:41:13 | |
| They. | 01:41:20 | |
| Hundreds of stalls of service parking and a grocery store in the middle of it and. | 01:41:22 | |
| We they said if you give us that, we'll come. | 01:41:29 | |
| And I don't think it's our in our best interest. I don't think it's in the city's best interest in that location. | 01:41:32 | |
| So we feel good about what this plan is. I don't think we changed it in any way. It it takes some vision and you know scale to | 01:41:39 | |
| build something like this in Vineyard. If it was suburban development, it would, it would, it would move right like. | 01:41:46 | |
| No doubt about it, you see it all around us. But this is, this is, this would be something we're proud of, and it'll be special | 01:41:54 | |
| when it's built for sure. | 01:41:57 | |
| Do you guys have any other questions for right now? | 01:42:05 | |
| I just wanted to make a couple comments. | 01:42:09 | |
| Umm. | 01:42:13 | |
| You know what people consider density varies, right? But also the appetite for it. You know, we heard from 1 gentleman. | 01:42:14 | |
| Supportive of it. We've heard from others that aren't, and you're gonna get the whole spectrum. I think we all understand that. | 01:42:23 | |
| I think in this location it's important to recognize. | 01:42:29 | |
| You would never expect to see a half acre single single family home on the intersection of. | 01:42:33 | |
| Geneva Road and 800 NI. Don't think anyone here is expecting that, or advocating for that. Or right next to a movie theater, | 01:42:40 | |
| anything like that. | 01:42:43 | |
| So in this area, you know, back from 2015, you know, it was always intended to be a little bit. | 01:42:47 | |
| Denser of an area. I think the the question that there's two questions in my mind that I think that we need to answer is the | 01:42:55 | |
| Planning Commission one is. | 01:43:00 | |
| If this is going to move forward as proposed, what's the best way to do it? | 01:43:06 | |
| And if it's not going to move forward as proposed, what's what's the best place to utilize this based on the current zoning? So I | 01:43:10 | |
| think those are really the two questions that are at hand. | 01:43:15 | |
| And I don't, I don't say this has a slight at all toward mayor, City Council, but also they have their opinions and visions of | 01:43:20 | |
| what they would like to see. | 01:43:25 | |
| And what we can do is provide an educated recommendation towards them that hopefully encompasses. | 01:43:30 | |
| All sides of what the the public is. | 01:43:37 | |
| And we can make recommendations based on that. However, I also fully acknowledge that they may already have ideas of what they | 01:43:40 | |
| would like to see here. Not that I'm that they're not open to our recommendations or anybody else's, but that's reality too, is | 01:43:45 | |
| final decision makers. | 01:43:50 | |
| Will, will field all the different recommendations from the different bodies, whether it's staff or or the Planning Commission. So | 01:43:56 | |
| I just wanted to say that here and and think that we need to address probably those two questions. What's the best way to move | 01:44:00 | |
| forward if it was something like this? | 01:44:04 | |
| And if it's not this, you know, what's the status quo? Best way to move forward? | 01:44:08 | |
| We rely, I think on on on community Development Morgan's team to say, yeah, that that this would be appropriate. 1.5 is more than | 01:44:44 | |
| the 1.1 it sounds like Edgewater had. | 01:44:48 | |
| It's not going to be. | 01:44:54 | |
| Recognizing parking could be huge. Maybe it turns out that after you build the first thing as a unit, there's double the amount of | 01:45:25 | |
| people parking there than we plan. And I mean, based on the cost of structure parking, I mean, it may not even be feasible. I | 01:45:31 | |
| don't know what the impact would be there, but I think it needs to be very strongly worded. | 01:45:36 | |
| If it were to move forward in this form, this is how we're accounting for parking. We know it's a huge concern for everyone. | 01:45:42 | |
| And I think we should listen to it and put very tight controls into that to to hold everyone accountable and and. | 01:45:48 | |
| Sway on that and just let it go forward without accounting that for that that could be an issue based off I don't think it will be | 01:45:55 | |
| but based off of history it it it very well could be and we should account the the parking study is is is a really good idea and I | 01:46:01 | |
| think that's a way to to right size it as because you get on site conditions. | 01:46:07 | |
| It also would put, I mean if the developers don't want a requirement of like 4 parts installed per unit then they're going to do | 01:46:13 | |
| their best to manage it and to stay on top of it. And so you get it from kind of both ends right sizing and then it puts a lot | 01:46:19 | |
| more responsibility on the management and the at the very front end. So if you want I mean that that's that's language that we | 01:46:25 | |
| could we could we could work on with the the applicants and. | 01:46:30 | |
| You know, if if you continue, we can come back with that or we could draft something now, but you know, it's up to you. | 01:46:37 | |
| A couple of questions I have for staff. Do we have any timeline? | 01:46:45 | |
| For. | 01:46:49 | |
| Widening of 800 N and the removal of the rails per. | 01:46:51 | |
| Public works directors engineer, so the widening excuse me the rail spur removal, we currently have it on the timeline side | 01:47:00 | |
| starting 2024 and and in about 2026 again this is a project that is in coordination with UDOT Federal Railroad Administration and | 01:47:07 | |
| also Union Pacific on that and. | 01:47:14 | |
| We're working on coming up with a proper agreement with Union Pacific in terms of conditions. | 01:47:22 | |
| Of that on 800 N specifically, I know that the widening that. | 01:47:29 | |
| Is happening which it or you might be referencing is either it's going to be doing some restriping and extending their shoulders | 01:47:37 | |
| along 800 N which will add some which will add capacity on 800 N on the Venezuelan side. | 01:47:44 | |
| And you don't have a contract excuse me has the contract out for that and then working on getting a contractor to actually to come | 01:47:53 | |
| through the work through looking at the next construction season. So how, how are they doing that exactly in essence what on the | 01:47:59 | |
| with the road, they the road has like a wide node lane they're going to turn those utilize like their fifth plane in order to add | 01:48:05 | |
| additional Turing warnings but. | 01:48:11 | |
| The vineyard connector 800 N is going to be extended. | 01:48:19 | |
| There's going to be an extension project that's but that's over it by the Main Street side of things. Not not necessarily going to | 01:48:25 | |
| be impacting this particular area except for providing residents of vineyards and other connect connection route to go So what | 01:48:32 | |
| they can choose to so those residents may choose to utilize that other. | 01:48:39 | |
| Part of the vineyard. | 01:48:47 | |
| Going westward around towards the lake instead of going eastward towards Geneva Rd. Geneva Rd. Are there any plans to do double | 01:48:49 | |
| lanes each two lanes each way? I know that there's plant like we built the bridge for that intent and we're building that other | 01:48:57 | |
| bridge for the Promenade. Yeah, so vineyard. So the vineyard extension project is going to be it'll be extended vineyard connector | 01:49:04 | |
| on there and then the UDOT does have another long range plans. | 01:49:12 | |
| I'm building that out to be double lanes and then of course everything will be widened going eastward. | 01:49:20 | |
| As well and that to include a white addressing the overpass if you need the 800 N overpass as well, you know I I can't tell you | 01:49:27 | |
| that there's a set plan in terms of the date because again that's AU dot long range planning on that. So I would I would think | 01:49:34 | |
| about anywhere from 6 to 8 years. | 01:49:41 | |
| And then my last question is, is that are there any plans to have any kind of sidewalk or anything? | 01:49:50 | |
| On that on 800 N between Mill Road and the Oakland Pass. | 01:49:57 | |
| Short answer, yes. OK. | 01:50:02 | |
| Is the city doing that or is UVU planning on doing that? So and then Morgan now can speak on this too, but along 800 N? | 01:50:06 | |
| Improvements along 800 N we you know we work with the dot you know on that in terms of the UDOT has ends also pushing a strong | 01:50:15 | |
| initiative at the base I think believe it's from the Governor's office in regards to increasing the walkability along Utah roads | 01:50:22 | |
| because you got understands that it can't keep widening roads that they have to provide. | 01:50:29 | |
| Other options for people to get people from point A to point B as well. So there they have a big initial they had to do have a big | 01:50:36 | |
| initiative to. | 01:50:39 | |
| Push those types of things again just like most government agencies they I know they have their constraints with contracts and | 01:50:44 | |
| actually were just recently we're working on AETA in terms of getting some things done because they UTA has money to do things but | 01:50:49 | |
| they don't have. | 01:50:54 | |
| The avenues to do it and we're we're teaming up with ETA in order to for them to implement ADA upgrades to bus stops because they | 01:51:01 | |
| have the money, but they don't have the contractors for that. | 01:51:07 | |
| And then with you dots kind of same way where we can we can take those opportunities to work with developers and UDOT and the city | 01:51:14 | |
| to get those types of upgrades done in a in a advantageous manner for everyone. So that's a longer answer to your shorter to the | 01:51:21 | |
| shorter, yes, thank you. Anything else, Sir? No, that's it. Thank you. | 01:51:28 | |
| I don't know. | 01:51:36 | |
| All right. So just based off of kind of stuff we've gone over today. | 01:51:40 | |
| There are some things I definitely want to see. | 01:51:48 | |
| I want to see the parking plan. How many units with the parking plan? | 01:51:52 | |
| I want to see any kind of plan or any kind of works that you guys are doing to. | 01:52:02 | |
| Help get some kind of transportation there, whether it's UTA or anything, some kind. | 01:52:07 | |
| Even bust out any any of that would be really helpful and we can look at that too. I there is a bus route now on Mill Rd. I don't | 01:52:14 | |
| know if it has a stop in front of this site or if it's in front of the megaplex, but. | 01:52:21 | |
| We can research that there's a five year plan study going on right now that they're seeking public input on UTA is and one of them | 01:52:28 | |
| is about rerouting. | 01:52:33 | |
| More I think 2 routes through Mill Rd. yeah. | 01:52:39 | |
| Given the. | 01:52:43 | |
| Of what we're doing, I mean would certainly design in spaces for those and no concern but. | 01:52:44 | |
| I mean if you put this this much activity in here not to have UTA like, yeah it would be silly of them not to. | 01:52:50 | |
| Totally support that, OK. | 01:52:58 | |
| Sorry, just looking at a couple of my notes and things. | 01:53:03 | |
| Umm. | 01:53:08 | |
| Do you guys have an idea on the percentage of commercial versus? | 01:53:09 | |
| At the end build out, yeah, I know you had the 50% of the ground floor space, but. | 01:53:16 | |
| I mean. | 01:53:23 | |
| What we see in the massing diagram. | 01:53:28 | |
| 2/3 residential square footage. So you know, like a million square feet of residential and 500. | 01:53:33 | |
| 1000 square feet of commercial is what you're looking at on. | 01:53:38 | |
| You know, is that hotel going to be 4 stories or five stories, right? It's hard to say. Is that office building going to be two | 01:53:43 | |
| stories or three stories or four stories. So I don't know exactly how to answer that. We've again, we've tried to narrow it down | 01:53:49 | |
| to what we feel like we can control with the market because we feel like we can build something in the market. | 01:53:54 | |
| Will want at the ground floor. It's just harder on the on the multi story commercial that's why it's hard for me to answer but | 01:54:00 | |
| what you're seeing there is, is. | 01:54:03 | |
| You know 500,600 thousand square feet of commercial and a million 1.1 million residential net that feels feels reasonable and good | 01:54:08 | |
| to us on on feasibility. OK. And then a question for you Morgan, in the downtown plan, are we including internal alleys and shared | 01:54:14 | |
| streets as open space? | 01:54:20 | |
| I'd have to look at we so they meet the open space requirement with without including those because they have, they have the | 01:54:29 | |
| promenades, they have the Geneva Park that hasn't been designed yet, but that would be. | 01:54:34 | |
| Can drive on it. I have a hard time like if I can't let my 10 year old go. | 01:55:12 | |
| You do call me right with some curbs and it takes a little bit of winding because you've got a little bump out where there's a | 01:55:53 | |
| park bench or write something that kind of activates that space. But I'll just say what, what we're proposing here is I think | 01:55:57 | |
| double zoning requirements. | 01:56:02 | |
| Even without those, I believe we would we would meet the current zoning, so. | 01:56:08 | |
| Umm. | 01:56:14 | |
| Yeah, I would. | 01:56:16 | |
| I want us and the site plans, I think, right, because the site plan is where that's going to happen. When we submit a site plan, | 01:56:18 | |
| we have to prove that we're meeting open space. | 01:56:21 | |
| And yeah, yeah, So we would do as each site plan comes in, we would compare it to the. | 01:56:25 | |
| To the concept plan. So they'd have to it had to be compliance with concept plan plus any zoning regulations that weren't | 01:56:32 | |
| overridden in the development agreement. And then that's where we would we would look because the intent of the development | 01:56:38 | |
| agreement is to make that a walking shared St. and shared in the sense that you know if a car goes in there it's. | 01:56:44 | |
| You know, it's like it's very rare or it's going really slow and so that would be our opportunity to get down to the design | 01:56:51 | |
| details. | 01:56:54 | |
| OK. Yeah. I'm just curious. | 01:56:59 | |
| Mostly about that and with the internal alley to. | 01:57:01 | |
| I believe the internal alley is. There's no cars on that one. That one's pure. | 01:57:06 | |
| I mean, do we include sidewalks is open space? | 01:57:11 | |
| Typically you don't, but I mean like I'm saying where you're doing something like in a development agreement where it's it's just | 01:57:14 | |
| different you may you're negotiating it's kind of like do you feel that this meets. | 01:57:20 | |
| That's where if you don't feel it does, I would you know, up it. | 01:57:27 | |
| Is. | 01:57:32 | |
| Let's have a specific idea of what those are so that we can determine whether or not that would be open space. And I'll just, I'll | 01:57:35 | |
| just comment that Paseos, right, if this was grass in a neighborhood, often those are right like a trail type system through a | 01:57:40 | |
| neighborhood. | 01:57:45 | |
| And when we kind of created this, this is an urban paseo and that was part of the rationale. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to see some | 01:57:51 | |
| details on what you guys consider paseo. | 01:57:55 | |
| Yeah. And there'll be an exhibit in the development agreement. This is what that is, right? How many trees are going to be there | 01:58:03 | |
| and what the seating is, what the paper material is, right. And we said it just can't be monolithic Gray asphalt. So some of those | 01:58:08 | |
| kind of things might be what you're looking for. | 01:58:12 | |
| And honestly it is on that shared St. it is it is nice to allow cars because that the retailers are going to want cars to be on a | 01:58:19 | |
| park right right in front of their store as well. So it's it's a lot of the design. | 01:58:25 | |
| And then the the last thing was having some kind of plan for being able to sell units as well instead of just having monthly | 01:58:41 | |
| units. | 01:58:46 | |
| And as far as those being rented out to people, it's kind of the same thing if. | 01:58:52 | |
| If there is a stringent parking plan, then even if those units sell to somebody. | 01:58:59 | |
| They know that they only have one or two parking spots, and even if they rent to four people. | 01:59:05 | |
| They know that they only have two parking spots. So and that's as far as like the comments earlier about parking that Dave Luray | 01:59:10 | |
| was making. | 01:59:15 | |
| 1.5 units is enough. | 01:59:23 | |
| If the person is buying the house knowing that, it's like if you buy a house that has one bathroom and you needed two bathrooms, | 01:59:25 | |
| like. | 01:59:29 | |
| You can't ask the city to give you a bathroom like this is just how it is. You buy something knowing if you know what you have | 01:59:35 | |
| then. | 01:59:39 | |
| It'll work out. It's when people have expectations, like I should be able to park here and then it gets taken away. That's when | 01:59:44 | |
| the issues start to come. And that's a big reason why the city doesn't allow parking on specific streets is because. | 01:59:51 | |
| Eventually those streets are going to be heading to somewhere and there can't be parking there. And if somebody has been parking | 01:59:59 | |
| there for five years and they expect that, then they're going to be extra mad at the city because they are getting their parking | 02:00:05 | |
| spot taken away. And so having a really stringent parking plan I think is essential. | 02:00:12 | |
| Is there anything else you guys wanted to see or so it sounds like you're leaning towards continuing this and seeing it back and | 02:00:20 | |
| then OK, yeah, if unless somebody has a. | 02:00:25 | |
| I think, yeah, you had a list of those amendments earlier. And so, yeah, incorporating those in addition to what Bryce was saying, | 02:00:32 | |
| just so it's kind of a. | 02:00:36 | |
| Cleaned up final thing that we can make a motion on with minimal modifications. Yeah, and we'll still have, just so you know, | 02:00:41 | |
| there are next step. We'll still go to the City Council with the public hearing, but they won't make a decision until it goes back | 02:00:46 | |
| to you for a recommendation. | 02:00:51 | |
| That'll be interesting. I mean, I would also like to know, yeah, in that meeting, it'd be, it'd be good to hear what the City | 02:00:58 | |
| Council's thinking there. So that would be helpful. Yeah. Can I ask for clarification on the parking plan? Yeah, what we proposed | 02:01:03 | |
| was we will submit a parking plan before the first site plan. | 02:01:09 | |
| That'll be helpful knowing the actual boundaries of the physical right, the physical architecture, and be able to come back with a | 02:01:15 | |
| meaningful parking plan. | 02:01:18 | |
| Having a little more design and detail what we were proposing in the development agreement, we outlined the main objectives of | 02:01:24 | |
| that parking plan, meaning it will be permitted, it will be monitored. | 02:01:29 | |
| It. | 02:01:34 | |
| I had, I had some of those items on the slide, how visitor parking will be addressed, right. They will have the study as well. It | 02:01:36 | |
| will have the study that we're going to add, right. And so we can put those main objectives in there in the development agreement | 02:01:41 | |
| knowing that a management plan with all the details will come later. Is that is that reasonable? | 02:01:46 | |
| At that time our property manager would be more involved and and we I think we could come up with a better a better solution | 02:01:52 | |
| though. | 02:01:54 | |
| OK. And then my last concern and you guys said that this is workable is the 1500 units currently there are 2000 units in that | 02:01:59 | |
| whole area, so it's almost. | 02:02:05 | |
| The amount of units that are in that entire area. | 02:02:11 | |
| That's a lot. Of course the rest of the area isn't mixed-use like it was supposed to be, and it would work a lot better if it was. | 02:02:15 | |
| But I. | 02:02:19 | |
| Still doubling that and then we're on top of that. UVU is across the street. They can build whatever they want and we have no say | 02:02:23 | |
| they could build. | 02:02:28 | |
| Thousands of units of student housing there and we don't know. | 02:02:34 | |
| So. | 02:02:38 | |
| We just want to be sure that we're. | 02:02:39 | |
| Adding more. | 02:02:41 | |
| Then. | 02:02:44 | |
| The infrastructure can take that. We're not adding more than. | 02:02:46 | |
| The trend? The roads can take infrastructure, of course. | 02:02:51 | |
| How workable are you guys on the 1500 units? | 02:02:57 | |
| I'll just address the infrastructure first. Again, I think with each site plan, there'll be an infrastructure assessment right | 02:03:03 | |
| with the seaman and the team. | 02:03:06 | |
| Working through that and you know we'll. | 02:03:09 | |
| Impact and responsibilities. So it's it's hard. I mean we've done a study here it says this is the background and all that's going | 02:03:12 | |
| to change, but even that won't be exactly accurate. So the best way to deal with that would be each time we come forward here is | 02:03:18 | |
| the impact of this next building, right and how does that need to be addressed at? | 02:03:23 | |
| So will that impact include a traffic study with each one? Yeah, I think you'd have to, right. | 02:03:30 | |
| As far as the number of units I. | 02:03:38 | |
| We are agreeable to come down if it helps bring the deal, there's a limit to it, obviously for the overall economic viability of | 02:03:43 | |
| what makes sense given the amount of investment. | 02:03:48 | |
| We've committed into certain areas in this common open space. We need, we need some mass to be able to help help cover all that. | 02:03:53 | |
| So I don't know what what feels reasonable to you if 1300 units, you know bring that down to 10 or 15 to 20% down. | 02:04:01 | |
| You know in that 1300 unit range 1250 is, is this does that, does that satisfy, so if we were to come back and say we will take | 02:04:09 | |
| that that that hit is that agreeable? I don't live in an area like this I. | 02:04:16 | |
| Tell you would you would have a better idea of what how you're feeling in your current area. You live there. | 02:04:24 | |
| Sorry. | 02:04:38 | |
| Been a little bit in and out. My kids are yelling at me on Messenger could. | 02:04:42 | |
| Say the question one more time, I was trying to like, so we were just talking about the amount of units. Currently the amount of | 02:04:47 | |
| units that are in this area is about 2000 units, OK and. | 02:04:52 | |
| What do you think would be workable for them if they were to be able to come down from 1500? | 02:04:58 | |
| What do you mean by workable for them? Like what do you think? | 02:05:06 | |
| As far as coming down? | 02:05:10 | |
| Like what kind of number would you personally like to see? | 02:05:14 | |
| It. | 02:05:25 | |
| It's interesting because it will be. | 02:05:28 | |
| Two sections of population. | 02:05:34 | |
| I'm putting all that into one. | 02:05:37 | |
| So I see, yeah. | 02:05:40 | |
| I. | 02:05:49 | |
| I couldn't say because I I see that we are working to build. | 02:05:51 | |
| And that infrastructure to support. | 02:05:56 | |
| If there's. | 02:06:03 | |
| If we're attracting the. | 02:06:05 | |
| Commercial. | 02:06:11 | |
| To allow people to feel that sense of community. | 02:06:14 | |
| Give me a reason to walk over and stay the day. | 02:06:19 | |
| I I don't know. | 02:06:24 | |
| I don't know that. | 02:06:27 | |
| Feel too crowded until we. | 02:06:30 | |
| It's hard to say because we don't know what UV is. | 02:06:35 | |
| I feel like 1500. | 02:06:42 | |
| About Max. | 02:06:49 | |
| OK. | 02:06:51 | |
| OK. I think that's probably going to be something more of the city council's gonna, yeah. | 02:06:52 | |
| Um. | 02:06:59 | |
| Yeah, I think that's it. | 02:07:02 | |
| Is there any other questions you guys had for us as far as what we're hoping to see or? | 02:07:04 | |
| No. | 02:07:09 | |
| So. | 02:07:11 | |
| Do I have? | 02:07:14 | |
| I'd like to move to continue. | 02:07:19 | |
| I need to look up the words. | 02:07:22 | |
| To close the public hearing, do we need to close the public hearing? It helps us to move the process because this is going to go | 02:07:26 | |
| into public hearing with the with the City Council and so unless if you feel. | 02:07:33 | |
| You know the changes that you're asking for significant enough that you would want the public to come back in. | 02:07:41 | |
| So it's up to you. | 02:07:48 | |
| OK, then I'll leave it. Does that mean you ask? | 02:07:53 | |
| Do you know, does that make an issue with the City Council having a public hearing? | 02:07:57 | |
| Maybe. | 02:08:03 | |
| So procedurally it works better if you close it because I I think then we have to continue it at the. | 02:08:06 | |
| You you can take comment you're you're you're allowed to take comment. It won't be the illegal public hearing but there's a bunch | 02:08:13 | |
| of members of the public that come you can say I give you each two minutes to to speak. Yeah as a chair you you're allowed to take | 02:08:19 | |
| public comment but it wouldn't be like the the legal public hearing we've now satisfied. So I I would recommend closing it and | 02:08:25 | |
| then people still want to speak you you can make that decision. | 02:08:30 | |
| I'll move to close public hearing, sorry. | 02:08:38 | |
| A second all in favor. | 02:08:42 | |
| Now I will also move to. | 02:08:45 | |
| Move to continue this to our next planning session Planning Commission meeting. | 02:08:50 | |
| What's the date for that February one? I think is that if everyone OK on February 1st 2023? | 02:08:56 | |
| Do I have a second? | 02:09:05 | |
| Yeah, is this This isn't roll call, is it? | 02:09:07 | |
| No. OK. All in favor. | 02:09:13 | |
| Right. | 02:09:16 | |
| Do you guys want to do the training session now? You want to hold it out for next? | 02:09:19 | |
| Yeah, you guys are fine. Big night. Continue. Yeah, I'm. I'm in favor of. | 02:09:24 | |
| We have to hit our four hours. We have to hit our four hours a year and they're like, So what, We'll probably always have some | 02:09:29 | |
| sort of training on there and then if it's you know, you bump it if we want to. | 02:09:35 | |
| Do. | 02:09:42 | |
| Yeah. No, we'll move it. OK. I. | 02:09:43 | |
| There's no work session, Commission member report and expert a discussion and disclosure. | 02:09:46 | |
| Staff did you have anything? | 02:09:53 | |
| No, we don't engineering any. | 02:09:56 | |
| Thinking they should be. Well, I just wanted to give an update, a couple updates. One first update being the traffic signal over | 02:10:00 | |
| 400 N and Main Street is on its way going in, they plan on, we plan to do some other testing tomorrow or testing, testing or | 02:10:08 | |
| initializing the signal tomorrow. And then as long as the weather is holding up and there's no issues with the signal controllers | 02:10:15 | |
| and so forth, we expect the light to be operational by Friday. | 02:10:23 | |
| Let's make the contractor has been great to work with, has been very responsive and I won't say this often but hard to keep up | 02:10:31 | |
| with sometimes. The other update I want to say is that I have one foot in the grave and Emily has one foot on my shoulder. Thing | 02:10:37 | |
| pushed me into push me to the ground. She she was notified that she passed her engineering examination for her first level | 02:10:43 | |
| engineering. | 02:10:49 | |
| So now she can technically be called. | 02:10:56 | |
| Engineer Emily Covet. And then on her emails you'll see EI at the end. | 02:11:01 | |
| Very big milestone and congratulations. That's great, awesome. Any update cash on the Postal Service as they got back to you at | 02:11:07 | |
| all? I have not been to the post office in a while, so I will work on it this before next meeting. | 02:11:14 | |
| If there's nothing else. | 02:11:23 | |
| Meeting adjourned. | 02:11:26 | |
| Don't forget. | 02:11:31 |