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CALL TO ORDER Chair Brady called the meeting to order.                    INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE Vice-Chair Bramwell led the meeting in the Pledge of Allegiance
OPEN SESSION – No comments were made.3.                    MINUTES REVIEW ANDAPPROVALNo minutes were presented for approval.                    BUSINESS ITEMS1
Sign Standard Waiver: Planner II Briam Amayapresented a staff report regarding the sign standard waiver formulti-tenant andsingle-tenant signs withing the Yard Subdivision.
MOTION: VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE SIGN STANDARD WAIVER WITH THE PROPOSED CONDITIONS. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                     PUBLIC HEARING5.1
Geneva Road Mixed Use Zoning Text Amendment and Zoning Map Amendment:Community Development Director Morgan Brim presented a staff report for the zoning text amendment and zoning map amendment regarding the Geneva Retail Frontage Subdivision.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Kirk Beecher with Central Utah Water Conservancy District (CUWCD) asked for clarification regarding the property owned by CUWCD within this new subdivision.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. A discussion was had with the Planning Commission and the developer to determine the best location for a car wash within the subdivision. Eric Towner with X Development answered questions regarding how they will mitigate sound issues relating to the car wash. He stated they were willing to do a sound study and place the required landscaping buffer to lessen the sound disturbances if needed. Jason Boal with Snell & Wilmer addressed the conditions for approval.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT AND ZONING MAP AMENDMENT WITH THE CONDITIONS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT. VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chair Brady called for aminute break.5.2    Holdaway Farms Development Agreement:
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Brim presented the staff report for the Holdaway Farms Development Agreement.
Resident David Lauret asked about how the development would affect0 South and Holdaway Road. City Engineer Naseem Ghandour helped clarify the plan to expand the road would be. Ryan Bybee with Cadence Homes addressed questions from the Planning Commission
MOTION: VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL MOTIONED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
MOTION: COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH THE CONDITIONS LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT. VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL WENT AS FOLLOWS: CHAIR BRADY, VICE-CHAIR BRAMWELL, AND COMMISSIONER GUDMUNDSON VOTED AYE. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.                    WORKSESSION                       TRAINING SESSION8.                    COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE
ADJOURNMENT Chair Brady adjourned the meeting.     Certified Correct On: July22 CERTIFIED BY:/s/CacheHancey Cache Hancey, PlanningTechnician
Welcome everybody. It is June 22nd. 00:00:02
And it is 6:03 PM. 00:00:07
This is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We'll move right into an open session. If you have any public comments, feel 00:00:10
free to come to the. 00:00:14
Oh yeah, sorry, into the Chris is actually going to go Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:20
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:28
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:36
One day I'm I'm going to not forget something. 00:00:45
All right, so now we'll move into the open session. Thanks, David. If you have any public comments, now is your time. Just come to 00:00:49
the podium, state your name. Nothing new, no. 00:00:53
Cool. We'll move out of the open session into minutes for there are no minutes for review and approval. We'll just move right into 00:00:59
business items sign standard waiver. 00:01:04
OK, my name is Brian Amaya, City Planner. 00:01:15
The applicant X of elements seeking approval of two multi tenant monument signs and two single tenant monument signs. But we're 00:01:19
really here in terms of the science standard. We're only here to discuss the the two multi tenant monument signs because the two 00:01:25
single tenant monument signs can be approved administratively, but some of the characteristics of the. 00:01:31
Multi tenant monument signs require a sign standing waiver. 00:01:38
So in regards to that, the multi time the multi tenant signs exceed the already permitted height of 15 feet and include a Halo 00:01:42
effect on some of the lettering. A Halo effect on your standard type letters. The faces of the letters are not lit up at night. 00:01:48
Instead the lighting is directed behind the letters and is reflected back in a Halo effect. In other words, the Halo letters come 00:01:54
alive at night and give off an iridescent glow. When you create a Halo effect, you give your letters an enhanced 3D look in 00:02:00
addition. 00:02:06
Effects enhances letters makes them stand out from the signed background. The reason a sign standard waiver is needed for the Halo 00:02:12
effect letters is because they have the potential to have a greater impact on the surrounding development and on and on drivers on 00:02:19
the road do their ability to possess special lighting effects and their ability to be viewed at longer distances. But with this 00:02:25
application that's not really an issue because it's so subtle and the design is is not as impactful as as that. 00:02:32
So we don't, we don't really see an issue with the design that's being proposed. 00:02:40
There actually isn't is already an existing similar multi tenant sign at the yard A at the intersection of Mill Road and 600 N and 00:02:44
we've never that I'm aware of, we've never received a complaint about that sign so. 00:02:51
The Singleton Monument signs do not do not appear to have a Halo effect letter unless I'm wrong. Only the the multitimate the 00:03:00
multi tenant signs. 00:03:05
The quantity of the multi sentence signs is determined by the street frontage along public roads. The code allows master 00:03:12
development to 800 feet or more St. frontage to install one sign for every 400 feet of frontage. The applicants total frontage 00:03:20
measured is 3625 feet. The applicant has chosen to propose only two freestanding multi sentiment signs. 00:03:27
Which is well below their allowable limit in terms of the sign height. 00:03:36
You may choose to You may choose to allow them a sign height of up to 20 feet through a sign standard river, but the applicant is 00:03:42
only seeking the height approval of 18 feet and a maximum sign area of 80 feet, which the 80 feet is outrightly approved as well. 00:03:51
City staff recommends approval of the of the signed standard waiver and the Singleton Monument signs are well within their 00:04:01
allowable heightened sign area as well. So the applicants here, if you want to ask them any questions and we have all their plans. 00:04:08
That's if you have questions about like design or anything like that. What's the difference between a waiver and a variance? 00:04:14
So a waiver is we have some outlying criteria within the code that's already set in place to allow for, for example like height, 00:04:22
our outrightly permitted height limit is 15. The waiver allows you to go up to 20. In other conditions you can allow a greater 00:04:31
amount of quantity of signs, for example on building elevations. So those are kind of more set in place. We have specific. 00:04:40
Code references for variances as well. 00:04:49
But that has to do with other other things that I can pull up. Yeah, that variances are essay. I say like a state process that we 00:04:52
have to follow. And so there's five criteria and I, I don't know them all right at the back, but essentially it's for cases where 00:04:59
and I, I you have to meet all 5 criteria in order to be approved, but allows you to vary from the from the code in specific 00:05:07
instances. And like one of those, like I've only seen a few approved. One of them was because there was a lot line. 00:05:14
Or a, a fault line, sorry, a fault line that ran through a property in the foothills in Tottenham Heights where I worked. And it 00:05:22
was discovered when they, the property owner did it, their geotechnical report. And due to the 25 foot front set back, 25 foot 00:05:28
rear set back, 15 foot side setbacks, it gave them like a very small sliver to the building. So they were able to get a variance 00:05:34
on the front. So they were able to build like 5 feet. And so there there's like 5 criteria and, and one of them is basically if 00:05:40
you. 00:05:46
By the zoning ordinance as it's written, does it take away a substantial property right? And so being the being able to build your 00:05:52
house is a substantial property right and applying the the code in that instance, you know took that right away. So they they were 00:05:57
able to get in that case. 00:06:01
Did you have any questions? 00:06:08
Developer. 00:06:10
No, no. You guys have a motion. 00:06:12
Motion to approve as requested. 00:06:17
All right, yeah. So you can see. 00:06:21
And I just. 00:06:24
Read it back. Yeah, you just read the. 00:06:26
Proposed motion. 00:06:29
Yeah, it's on the screen there, if you can see it. We just have two conditions that mostly have to do with biting, like local and 00:06:32
federal laws and things like that and paying, paying fees. 00:06:38
Proposed. I guess the proposal as written that the applicant pay any outstanding fees and make any red line corrections and the 00:06:44
applicant is subject to all federal, state and local laws. 00:06:50
And then the proposed motion and then that proposed motion, I've moved to approve the sign application and sign standard waiver 00:06:56
application as requested by Eric Shinsato with all red electric sign and awning with the proposed conditions. And just that's 00:07:02
Allied Electric signs. Oh, sorry, Allied Electric sign, I'll second that. All in favour. 00:07:09
Moving on to public hearing, do I have a motion to open up a public hearing? I move to open the public hearing. I have a second. 00:07:18
Second all in favor, aye. 00:07:27
All right, we're in a public hearing. This is for the Geneva Rd. mixed-use zoning text amendment and zoning Map amendment as our 00:07:30
first item. 00:07:35
Great. Thank you, Chairman and Planning Commission. 00:07:45
Where sometimes we have all eight members and it's packed, other times we just have a few so. 00:07:49
But hey, we're still, we're still good to go. I appreciate you guys doing their duty and showing up and serving this community 00:07:55
because there's, there's a lot going on and we're only going to get busier and busier. The Geneva Rd. mixed-use district is a, is 00:08:02
a district that encompasses the, the Geneva retail frontage plat. If I think Bryce, you were here when that I was approved back in 00:08:10
my 2018, 2017. 00:08:17
I think you came on just kind of after that, maybe a year or so later, but that that was the the plat that took essentially 11 00:08:24
parcels and subdivided them as an essentially like a .9 to A1 acre. 00:08:31
Development pads of those one was built out that's O'reilly's on the South end and essentially what the applicant is looking for 00:08:41
is to incorporate auto, automotive services and automotive oriented type uses. 00:08:48
Within that district right now the RMU code is fairly restrictive when it comes to automotive uses. It does not permit for repair 00:08:56
sales, you know equipment rental. I know that those those kind of kinds of things and it was kind of contemplated with the 00:09:04
adjacency to the residential as you see here the Edgewater townhomes potentially there, there could be some conflicts if we just 00:09:11
allow those outright and this is when we did the full global. 00:09:19
Yours back in 2017 and so we didn't get down into the very specific details, but we did kind of look just generally at uses and so 00:09:26
some of those uses were taken away. Car washes were also made a conditional use in the RMU code. So the acronym to apply for a 00:09:34
zoning text amendment and for a zoning map amendment, the zoning text amendment would create the the GRMU code, the Geneva Rd. 00:09:41
mixed-use code and that would fall under our special zoning book. 00:09:49
That is really kind of a companion document to the zoning ordinance. It applies the district. 00:09:57
To the retail the Geneva Retail Frontage subdivision, another Watts, 2311. 00:10:03
And, and so last time we had asked that if O'reilly's were to be a part of that, that we needed an authorization letter and we 00:10:11
didn't receive one, but we did receive one for the Central Utah Water Conservancy District. And so that's the wow, that's like 00:10:18
right here. That's where they, yeah, just got split front to back. And so they agreed to be a part of it. Their conditional use 00:10:25
that was approved, I believe it was a year ago for the Bell site that is still in effect. And they, they are invested under. 00:10:32
Approval and they have done work and I think most of you know, they found that the water quality was was not sufficient and and 00:10:40
they're looking at ways to potentially upgrade the water quality of that site or you know, they the applicant is to talk about a 00:10:46
desire to incorporate that lot into into their development. So potentially you you could see that kind of that half acre be a part 00:10:53
of the overall. 00:10:59
Development that the applicants take it on ex development. 00:11:06
Term zonings RMU it's. 00:11:11
Project areas about 9 acres bounded by Florida N to the north, Geneva Road to the east O'Reilly out of parts of the South 00:11:13
Edgewater townhouse with us the shows the zoning that would be proposed GRMU on those on those lots general plan we provided kind 00:11:20
of an overall. 00:11:26
A list of kind of where we felt that it aligned with the general plan and it's pretty good. I mean anywhere from the economic 00:11:35
development, pieces of land use, transportation. 00:11:39
We feel like if this done right, it could provide really great services that would allow for people to walk. Additionally, you 00:11:45
know, with the amount of residential there, you got 500, basically 500 townhomes adjacent to site. That's a couple 1000 people. 00:11:52
Those are services that they they can walk to or drive too quickly and also employment. And so that's and that's that's something 00:11:58
that we are trying to be very target of. We found that one of the best ways to. 00:12:05
You know, to kind of assist with the overall transportation issues that we're seeing in the traffic is providing jobs and 00:12:12
residential close by in a way that. 00:12:16
You can easily connect to them either short driving or by walking or other means. 00:12:22
The GMU, it provides a mixture of commercial, office, residential uses along the Geneva Rd. You know, we talked about the 00:12:29
automotive uses and the code currently does not permit those. A new code would permit them. 00:12:36
And it would also it it would allow for light and heavy vehicle and equipment sales and rentals as a conditional use. 00:12:46
There was within a discrepancy and I think this was from our actual code and the zoning code. I I believe most likely Jason 00:12:55
probably took the the the standard code that we had and drop it in just so it was consistent. But we'll and I have that later list 00:13:02
that we will need to do a cleanup on, on one of those residential is captured at a 2350 units and that was increased last year 00:13:08
through the the RV. So the cap was met. 00:13:15
So that this this this code if it was approved it would be a new code. I would allow for a districtal residential units, multi 00:13:23
family and two family units are allowed. 00:13:28
The Commission expressed a desire that stand alone residents will be taken out. And so that would mean we would need to clarify on 00:13:34
the table that A2 family units are are not allowed because typically that's a duplex in most orientations. Those are standalone. 00:13:42
The three access point off Geneva Rd. access easements on the east and West side of the project area running South and north. 00:13:50
Our recommendation would be and the the plaque kind of contemplates this as well. 00:13:59
That that's a temporary easement on the east side. And if we do a mixed-use building kind of where that that lands, we want to see 00:14:04
the access easement pulled down. We don't want at least a parallel drive to the frontage of of a mixed-use building. We want that 00:14:10
pushed up as reasonably possible to, to to both streets to kind of mirror the, the mixed-use development that's going to happen on 00:14:16
the north side of Florida north. 00:14:22
There right now the residential density is at 26 units per acre. They can be increased through development agreement. 00:14:30
There's no women on non residential intensity. There's a good thing you want the site to build out with a lot of jobs. 00:14:37
And apply for economic development. They did try to address some of the high issues. It was 65 feet that dropped at 5 feet down to 00:14:43
60. 00:14:47
It's it is important with commercial if they do an office or eviction spilling that they do have kind of the space. 00:14:53
That where they they can get at least like a good quality four story building due to the, you know, the depth lot. They might not 00:15:01
be able to do that, but at least it would provide kind of the architect some flexibility as opposed going down to like a 45 foot. 00:15:07
But there there was some concern. I kind of what we're anticipating is most of it is going to be single story on the South side 00:15:15
and then on the north side I think it was mixed just built in. That's where you would see more of a high increase. 00:15:21
This shows kind of the OK, I'm so one of the things kind of that way we found with the with the setbacks is the setbacks of the 00:15:29
code are talking about pulling those from the easement line. We you know, we just want to stated that it's pulled from the 00:15:34
property line. That's that, that's where we the rest of our codes that we pull our our setbacks. And so that would be something we 00:15:40
would just want clarified. 00:15:45
Yeah. 00:15:54
So the easement on the east side is 30 feet on, then on the rear side here it is 35 feet. That's a utilities mat and that's a 00:15:56
access easement on the front side. 00:16:01
From utility. 00:16:07
But, and it seems like kind of discrepancy, there's another spot where it says 5 feet from Janice Geneva Rd. So that's why if we 00:16:11
just stay, it's from the, the property lines, you know, we're, we're OK with that. And really with this district, I mean, there's 00:16:17
not like it's actually a good thing to go up as as close to the street as we can. And so, you know, having a small set back 00:16:24
opportunity. Geneva Rd. even with the non mixed-use buildings, I think it provides more billable pads. 00:16:31
Ability this note here basically what that says that's a flat note is that the access season is contemplated to be a temporary 00:16:38
easement and that as each property builds out, they would then record an access easement across their property. It's supposed to 00:16:45
be a fluid easement. And so it depends if that's supposed to provide kind of generally the ability to to place your building pad 00:16:53
where it makes the most sense and then they would record an easement so so if you pulled up to the street then you know maybe. 00:17:00
Goes around, but you still need to provide for that easement for cars to to go from one month to to the other. 00:17:08
Yeah, there's no internal side setbacks and 20 feet from the street sides and then there's a rear set back that's 20 feet. 00:17:16
OK. So yeah, so this is these are all kind of the site plan elements of the code. 00:17:28
Well, what it indicates is the main structure on lot 11, the project area shall the design is that is comparable and compatible 00:17:35
with the structures of the north side of the 400 N. You know staff would like to see something that may be a little bit more 00:17:40
substantial. We're only talking about like a .9 acre lot and so you know, we have kind of contemplated going to to four bots to 00:17:46
provide a really sizable project. 00:17:51
But you know, we'd we'd like to see more than than than than one lot. 00:17:58
It calls out development plan throughout the code. That's something that is kind of carried on in the RMU code. This is where our 00:18:04
own zoning conflicts. So we do have in our zoning code where it allows for the Planning Commission to approve all site plans. The 00:18:10
RMU had some discrepancies with that. So we've always kind of give the benefit to the the developer. So we've always had the 00:18:16
Planning Commission even under the RMU approved site plans. So we would like to make sure that that. 00:18:22
Kind of stays consistent with this. 00:18:29
And so instead of having the City Council approve the site plans, the Planning Commission should be the board as our practice has 00:18:31
been to approve site plans and then also taking out kind of the language of development plan and replace that with site plan. 00:18:36
Yeah. I talked about connect interconnections with other projects we thought was really good. Residential projects shall have 50% 00:18:44
open space, recreational amenities, Our office space areas shall be on and maintained by the property owned association. So that 00:18:50
that's good, but I'm not really contemplating public parks, but there would be private open space with this area that would be 00:18:56
maintained by by the OR the association. 00:19:02
Detention Detention basins will not be counted towards open space. 00:19:09
However, and talking with engineer, we saw that it was important if they went to the, you know, the cost of putting an underground 00:19:13
system and, and many developers do that to utilize space more efficiently. That if, if it maintained the same quality of the open 00:19:19
space and the recreational, you know, amenities there that, that we could count that towards open space. But that would, that 00:19:25
would provide the same the, the discretion making sure that the system worked well and that also the, you know, the open space on 00:19:31
top was. 00:19:37
Usable. 00:19:43
I have parking to be told me by the city planner. We feel like it should follow the the city code, the the our parking ordinance. 00:19:46
There's a landscaping theme, which we thought was good. One thing that says the district states character will bring about a 00:19:52
familiar traditional setting for users while allowing for a diversity of building styles. That's not really specific. It's it's 00:19:57
kind of general. It does sort of align with some of our general plan language having like traditional billing styles, but I just 00:20:03
kind of pointed that out. 00:20:09
They'll emphasize the oriented towards Eva Rd. So like if you have a chromo building on 400 N that you would also want it to 00:20:15
Orient towards for the north 'cause you're going to have a mixed-use building on the north side of that. And so having kind of the 00:20:22
two, they don't necessarily have to match exactly, but having kind of a general urban design form that that that kind of matches, 00:20:28
you know, build his face or like entrances facing both. 00:20:34
Buildings are encouraged to include passive solar. 00:20:42
When so that using the words encouraged, it means that we can't require it, but it's kind of a farming whoever's building there in 00:20:46
the city would like to see that requires 30% glass and windows on the ground floor, 1 inches on the street side, but only one on 00:20:53
the corner lot. We'd like that up so that if there is a corner building on Geneva and 4 N that there is an entrance. I mean 1 can 00:21:01
be main entrance, but providing another entrance so that there's it. It has like an architectural connectivity with with with. 00:21:08
We felt was important. 00:21:16
Sorry there it's it's a it's a big it's important. So I mean, if you have any questions, feel free to stop. But there's other 00:21:19
architectural standards, you know, making sure that the there's not monotonous wild pains that they get broken on the counter, 00:21:25
equipment gets screened, buildings are designed with the base metal on top so that so that, you know, it kind of helps create that 00:21:30
the human scale thing. So if you think about just instead of having one really large glass building that's maybe four stories 00:21:36
tall, you would have like. 00:21:42
A distinction between the architectural planes that they would be, you need to be able to distinguish between them that that 00:21:48
actually helps kind of with the human scale portion of it. You're able to see the ground floor. 00:21:55
And then there's other things like encouraging architectural features, they call them 3D features on the on the building, Qantas 00:22:02
and stuff like that. If you know, if we're going to do that, that's one of those things that it should be a shallow. 00:22:10
You know, it shall be a shallow. I think something like that is better as a as a requirement, but then you provide kind of the 00:22:18
flexibility for the architect inside, what types of features that they incorporate into their into their building. And then it 00:22:24
calls that like building materials like sandstorm brick or base brick. Let's call that as as desirable. It tells about like 00:22:30
encouraging an iconic architectural. 00:22:37
Elements. So it's not necessarily something that's that's required, but it's encouraged. 00:22:44
And then lighting should be downcast and directed. We feel that's important that that we have something in there that it's 00:22:49
directed away from residential. They do have some language in there for architectural features and, and that's, and that's kind of 00:22:55
a cool thing. You'll see like some of these nice buildings where they use the lighting to really highlight different features of 00:23:02
it and, and provides a nice aesthetic at night. But we do need to be cognizant of other residences. 00:23:08
And so, you know, maybe there's an element we could allow for uplift elements, but we need to make sure that that's maybe on sides 00:23:15
not facing the the residential and that it's fully captured either within like an Eid system or, or, you know, an awning that it's 00:23:22
not just a light just to shoot it up because that you know, that that that could have impacted the the neighbors. Northern 4 lots 00:23:29
shall be accessed by a rear alley and placed up close to Team Rd. as feasible. 00:23:37
The parking area shall be shall not be permitted in the front yards of the lots. 00:23:44
Standards for auto oriented uses, there's a lot of these. Hopefully you guys have kind of gone through it. I'm sorry, that's like 00:23:50
I hate there's so much stuff, but there there are standards that help overall with the the impact to the to, to the residents as 00:23:57
well. I'll come. We'll kind of go through the car washers. I know there's there's some concern with that. The applicant has put a 00:24:04
step back for the, for the actual building of 50 feet. So that would be much more than the other buildings in the district. 00:24:10
They are limited to the southern 5 lots. Car washes are and vacuums. The vacuum shall be set back 25 feet. 00:24:18
They're, they're all of the lots required to have the landscape buffer of 10 feet, which we could provide trees and screening 00:24:26
elements. And then probably the most, most important thing is the hours of operation or when it's 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM, so you don't 00:24:31
have vacuums running at midnight. 00:24:37
Can I ask a question, I know we discussed last time a lot about the vacuum annoyance. Has there was there any other internal 00:24:44
discussion that came about of impact for that? And I know for the because it's the southern 5 lots where that can be. So the 00:24:51
Edgewater homes are I think 16 feet easement from from the property line. From the property line you're looking at 40 feet 00:24:57
distance between the vacuums and those homes. Yeah. 00:25:04
Yeah. And so I think Jason mentioned having some sound studies. And so when they do their presentation, I think that would be a 00:25:12
good thing for for them to discuss. That's also why we put the hours of operation in place. And then we could add some language to 00:25:18
require like trees within the the buffer landscape area and that that may help with some, you know, some of the sound blockage or 00:25:23
you know, whatever you want to call it. 00:25:29
And then there's some standards for the the light repair. 00:25:39
Limiting the the base to four, having the exit doors not facing the residential. 00:25:45
Things of that nature, a big one too. This is what I dealt with in Virginia when I worked there. No inoperable vehicles shall be 00:25:52
parked slash stored on site. It's important we say that at one city that the code was just very general and we had like 5 or 6 of 00:25:58
them that had just broken down cars all on the front end. It's you need, you need clear language and I think that's, that's fairly 00:26:04
clear for us to enforce. 00:26:10
Some of their other auto, auto oriented standards for drive-throughs, drive-throughs are going to have to meet the zoning code. So 00:26:18
we're we already do have that within our code I. 00:26:23
And there there was a limitation on on on Bayes as well. 00:26:30
Let's see if there's anything else. 00:26:37
Here are some of our proposed conditions should you choose to approve the, the, the ordinance tonight. And I'll, I'll read through 00:26:40
those and we can, we can talk about them as much as you'd like. So first of all, remove the redundancy and the use table regarding 00:26:47
vehicle and equipment repair. And so you can see just kind of on the right, we were just basically take, take that one out. I 00:26:54
think that was, that's something that's already in our RMU code. So we probably would need to do the same. 00:27:01
Or in the. 00:27:08
The district use table and the zoning codes, we probably needed to make that correction there as well, removing the east axis E 00:27:10
limit from mixed-use building lots on the north side. And that's one thing that the site plan process contemplates within the plat 00:27:17
is that you basically put the building where you need it, but you provide the access so that it makes sense so that they would 00:27:23
record a new access easement once they file their their site plan. 00:27:30
We have two family dwellings and clarify and use table that stand alone residential is not permitted. 00:27:38
Have actually measured from property lines and not easements. I understand kind of their, their, their overall intent, but I think 00:27:43
it, you know, I just want the language to be very consistent for the the zoning code just makes it harder to minister if it's we 00:27:47
have different standards. 00:27:52
And then to replace the. 00:27:58
The broader plan with side plan and Planning Commission to be authorized to for approval of site plan permits within the district. 00:28:00
City engineer may approve underground storm water facilities count towards open space requirements. The quality of open space 00:28:05
recreational amenities maintained 7 parking requirements in the zoning arts will be used. Remove city planner termination 00:28:09
language. 00:28:14
Building located on the corner of Florida North and Geneva Rd. should have entrance located facing both streets. Alighting shall 00:28:19
be fully contained within the project side, not spill onto residential property. What are you using? Obviously there's going to be 00:28:26
a little bit, but the photometric plants that really do help us look at the intensity. Typically those are those are put together 00:28:32
by a lighting engineer or you know a civil engineer that has like lighting design experience. 00:28:39
Let's see ten 3D architectural features shall be incorporated into all building elevations. So that's one thing that we've we've 00:28:48
kind of done as we've looked at these projects, making sure that our front facade you typically those are great, but that you 00:28:55
carry kind of the same and that's 11 similar architectural design and material shall be incorporated on all building elevations. 00:29:02
So you can go heavy on the front elevation, but as long as you're not having blank elevations on the back or just like. 00:29:09
Amassing with with no undulation, you know, I mean it, it could be downplayed and we could get into like specific standards if you 00:29:17
want. But overall, you know, if they're using some of the same material, there's brick on the ground floor, then, you know, you 00:29:23
pull that into some sort of orientation on the, the sides and, and the, and the back elevation so that you don't just get great 00:29:29
front facade and then everything else is just, you know, flat. 00:29:36
And then should you choose to approve it. 00:29:44
We provided a motion for the ordinance. Ordinance would approve both Geneva Rd. mixed-use District zoning text amendment and also 00:29:48
the zoning map amendment with the 11 conditions listed in the staff report, or if you choose to modify those or take them away, 00:29:54
add some, then we would just change that language a little bit. 00:30:00
And the applicant doesn't have a presentation. Thanks Morgan. 00:30:07
Yeah, you guys. 00:30:13
Make your presentation I suppose. 00:30:15
It is on all right and I have. 00:30:24
Some over copies with. 00:30:27
Red Line and the red line version of what we saw last night based on the conversation. So my name is Jason, Bold snow and warmer. 00:30:31
I'm here with X Development. Really grateful for the opportunity to be here. Really grateful for staff. Morgan and I think talked 00:30:38
several times today on the phone and lots of emails back and forth and not just today over the last couple weeks as well about 00:30:44
this code text amendment. 00:30:50
We are if you want to go to the next. 00:30:57
Slide. So talking about property, it's currently zoned as regional mixed-use. The proposal is to create a new zone and change the 00:31:01
map. This is the area we're going to identify. So the O'reilly's is not. When we came before you last time there was consideration 00:31:10
of including the O'reilly's given that it's developed project and. 00:31:18
Most likely will not meet the standards we are looking to adopt. It's probably best to not include it and create a a non 00:31:27
conforming non conforming building. 00:31:31
This is the plot and the next one we're going to outline. All right, so this really is the meat of why it is we're here. We are 00:31:37
asking for a new zone, in essence to allow car washes as a right. Car washes are currently a conditional use permit. 00:31:46
And to allow light automotive repair as a permitted use, that is what our ask is in exchange for that we are proposing. 00:31:57
To as Morgan went through that long list of design criteria, that's not required in the regional excuse zone as it currently sits. 00:32:10
So in exchange for in essence those two items, we are willing to adopt this new code, these new regulations. 00:32:20
To that would require development on this property really to be designed. 00:32:33
In a way that's that's thoughtful and that's meaningful. And as Morgan has mentioned, you know, this is an entry feature, an entry 00:32:39
property to the city and wanting to make sure that it's done right. And that's really our intent is identifying design standards 00:32:46
and development standards that that makes sense for this property. And so a lot of the things, quite honestly, I think almost 00:32:53
everything we talked about last time. 00:33:00
Has been incorporated. 00:33:08
We made changes to the proposed code. 00:33:09
You know, the stand alone residential uses, we heard that, you know, this is the commercial area of the regional mixed-use. That's 00:33:14
what the intent was. And so we've eliminated the ability to have a standalone residential use. 00:33:21
The design guidelines. 00:33:30
And then so I went through some of them, obviously not as in depth as as Morgan did, but you know with the building orientation, 00:33:33
the ground floor activation. 00:33:37
Architectural character. Meaningful design elements when it comes to commercial buildings. 00:33:43
And the requiring compatible and comparable uses, so or design not uses comparable compatible design. And I hear it's lot 3, it's 00:33:50
the northernmost lot. Depending on which document you look at, I think there's three or four different numbers that that lot 00:33:58
received. So the northernmost lot so that it does tie in with the mixed-use project across 400. 00:34:07
Connectivity isn't. It was expressed was very important. 00:34:16
And that's that's incorporated into the code to ensure that that happens. 00:34:20
Shared parking is also something that is contemplated and enabled. This code would enable a shared parking with adjacent 00:34:25
developments and then establishing specific U standards for car washes and light vehicle repair and drive through uses and one of 00:34:34
the things I want to talk about in regards to to those specific uses so. 00:34:42
Car Car washes currently are a conditional use permit in this this zone so. 00:34:51
You have an applicant that could come before you and say, hey, this is what we're proposing. We've mitigated all of the impacts 00:34:56
and it would be up to you to determine whether or not those impacts are actually mitigated. 00:35:04
And rather than going through that kind of the back and forth through the conditional use permit. 00:35:14
This is my personal opinion as somebody that's worked. Umm. 00:35:21
On that side in the public sector. 00:35:25
It's better to adopt specific standards that work as opposed to requiring conditional use permit and asking an applicant to 00:35:29
mitigate, to come up with their best way of mitigating those impacts. And so the mechanisms that we're proposing of of this 00:35:37
ordinance which adopt specific standards for those uses. 00:35:45
In our opinion it's it's a win win because from the developer side we know what the standards are. 00:35:54
And from the City side, you're adopting standards that's that work. And when I say that they work so the the car wash uses I 00:36:01
spent. 00:36:06
About two days going through a multitude of different. 00:36:13
Car wash permits throughout the West and looking at different noise studies and looking at different. 00:36:16
Requirements that were placed. 00:36:23
And the what we've what we're proposing is in most cases more than what was required, but definitely in line with with those other 00:36:27
with what other jurisdictions have required for car washes. So with that I don't know if you want to go through some of the 00:36:35
specific items that have that have changed or if you have questions. 00:36:43
You guys have any specific questions right now? 00:36:56
Not like this again. 00:36:59
Should I open it up for public to make any comments or questions that? Yeah, absolutely. And then once that's done, we can, if 00:37:02
there's comments, then we that'll give the then you want to provide the applicant the opportunity to respond to those so that we 00:37:08
can continue the discussion. Cool. Yeah, let's do that real quick. Yeah, if you don't mind. 00:37:14
Any of the members of the public have any questions or comments that they'd like to make regarding Item 5.1? What we've just done 00:37:19
over now is your time. 00:37:23
Just come up and state your name. 00:37:31
I'm Kirk Beecher with Central Utah Water. 00:37:38
So we own one lot in that proposed area there and the only question I had was there was discussion about the northern foremost 00:37:42
lots would provide drive through and parking and all that for those lots. 00:37:50
Are the four lots our lot and then the three others to the east and north of us, is that where you're talking about? So the, the 00:38:00
code that was proposed says 4 lots. How we've said it kind of been our our staff report is the four lots of the Geneva retail 00:38:09
frontage plot. And so that the new plot is the Geneva retail fund is flat B Yeah, Plat B. 00:38:17
And so that those four lots, that's what I'm asking, are those the four lots you're talking about? 00:38:26
I'm sorry, not the platter. So the ones I'm talking about are like we call out the the original platted, platted lodge. Those 00:38:33
don't exist any longer. That didn't amend the entire plot. So, so your bottom, your bottom lines are still existing. Yeah, but so 00:38:38
you're talking about only lots. 00:38:44
87. 00:38:52
65 and 4 then. 00:38:54
So that's probably there's a discrepancy under the code, it just says, it says 4 lots. And so if you guys want to clarify maybe 00:38:57
what what you mean by that portion amended the original plat to that right there, OK. And plat B is, is lots 12/13/14 and 15 and 00:39:05
lots 9/10/11 do not exist any longer. 00:39:14
OK. So which lots are you talking about on the floor? 00:39:22
So the ones that were contemplating are part of the original and so that's and so, so that's from from like a staff side when we 00:39:26
say those, the four we're talking about, about the original lots because that would be one beyond that. 00:39:34
I I know, I know, but there there is a plat. And so if you talk about the original plat, so they don't exist anymore. OK, So what, 00:39:44
what, what, what are you, what's what I'm asking are the four lots you're talking about. 00:39:51
Lots 12/13/14 and 15, so that are you talking about lots. So what staff is talking about is, is the the four lots that that are 00:39:58
shown in the amended plat and also those are the only four lots of Michelle and also and also lot 8 of the of the the original 00:40:06
plan. Can you pull up that map for me so that we can all be talking about the same 4 lots? 00:40:14
Including lot 8 will be difficult because. 00:40:23
Our loss will be totally fenced. There will not be access through our lot. 00:40:28
Along that West side, OK. 00:40:35
In which lot of ours is 13 on the amendment, it's the smaller of the of the two ones, the back one. 00:40:37
Our lot will be. It will not have public access. 00:40:45
Because it is a a public facility, it will be a well site, so it will not have public access. 00:40:48
We'll access it from the north. 00:40:58
From 400 N. 00:41:00
Along the along the 45 foot that's along that website. 00:41:03
Yes. Well, that's it from that east of there along the utility easement and then we have an additional 10 feet outside of that 35 00:41:08
foot utility easement as well. 00:41:12
So that's that's my question is what are you trying to say with that the four lives? 00:41:22
OK, I'm going to pull it up. 00:41:29
OK. 00:41:31
Yeah, and that's and and this is so, I mean, that's the sketch. So we'll need to provide some some clarifying language. So this 00:41:39
lot. 00:41:42
Is going to be fenced off totally, yeah. And so the language could be amended that. 00:41:46
The Ali would would either go around it. 00:41:54
So that it's not, it's not an impact on your side. That's my question. And so, yeah, so we could call out lot 13 of this plat as 00:41:57
you know having the the alleyway basically circumvent that lot, OK. 00:42:05
And that's, that's all I was asking. Yeah, that's it. It's just that because that is a a public water facility, it will not be 00:42:13
accessible to the public. Yeah. So that's why I need to make that clear. 00:42:19
We can't have a driveway through a public water facility. That would be bad. And I, I, I guess too there's there's there's been a 00:42:27
lot of questions as to whether or not you guys are are moving forward. OK, OK, OK. So we've yeah, we've heard, we've heard 00:42:33
different. So we're drilling the will we have revised the contract for the well. 00:42:40
Driller that was working, that's been working out there and he's drilling that well and then he's also going to drill the well 00:42:47
over by behind the elementary school. 00:42:50
So both wells are going to be drilled and we'll add them into our system. 00:42:54
Yeah, so. 00:42:58
Great. Does that make sense? It does. OK, good. Thank you for that. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. 00:43:00
All right. Any other public comments? 00:43:07
All right. 00:43:11
OK. And then you you'd want to close the public hearing, should we close it and then reopen it for the holdaway farms? 00:43:13
Development agreement. Those are those are two separate ones. Yeah. Yeah. So you would you would open the holy farms for that one. 00:43:21
So you would close it for for this work. All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close the public 00:43:26
hearing. 00:43:31
All in favor, aye. All right. 00:43:36
So if you guys don't have any questions right off the bat, I suppose I do. So you're saying with the with this development, the 00:43:41
two things that you're really wanting are the? 00:43:47
The car washes and the. 00:43:55
Light auto repair with the residential intensity. 00:43:59
Could we make it so that? 00:44:07
Any residential has to go through a development agreement and if so, can we also make it to be a specific percentage of the 00:44:10
retail? 00:44:13
What are your thoughts on something like that? 00:44:18
So is there any residential go through a DA? 00:44:23
And what was the second item? And that we have some kind of percentage. I don't know what that would be or something that's it 00:44:28
might be easier just because we don't we don't know how intense the site is is going to build out. Because if they do, if they do 00:44:34
like auto uses that, you know, like their, their numbers are going to are going to be different. So if it's like 25% or something 00:44:41
like that. 00:44:47
I think it might be easier to do just like a unit number, so you know whether it's like 100 or what, what whatever that is like if 00:44:54
you want to put a cap in it. 00:44:58
Or the development agreement, because they would come back through Planning Commission and City Council. So you could say that the 00:45:03
development agreement would determine the, the, the number of units. So if they went with four with the residential project, then 00:45:10
they, they could, you know, analyze the, the site and bring a number that that makes sense for that site and then bring it back. 00:45:17
And then you would have the opportunity to, you know, and, and I guess another shot at it if you wanted to do it that way. 00:45:23
Or you could cap it in the ordinance at 100 to be approved through a development agreement or whatever that that number is. 00:45:31
Because I, I just wanted to be clear in the development, like clear to any future planning commissioner and City Council, that the 00:45:37
only way we would really want any residential is if we're getting a massive. 00:45:43
Retail use. 00:45:51
Is there a way we can like? 00:45:55
Really substantial on a huge benefit to the city from a, you know, financial standpoint, even if we were to say no residential 00:46:28
development agreement could come in and add residential, could it not? 00:46:34
Or would this this would have to be amended either way? Yeah, you would want. So if if you pull out residential, you wouldn't be 00:46:41
able to just do a development agreement to add residential. You're like you would want your zoning to to to guide the the uses. 00:46:47
And so you would say, you know, residential is permitted through provision of a of a development agreement and the number of units 00:46:53
will be will will be determined by the the City Council. And so that that way it would allow the developer to put put together a 00:46:59
proposal that. 00:47:05
Makes sense. And then you would have the opportunity to look at it at that time, which might make more sense that the site would 00:47:11
be building out and then and then you could say you know like. 00:47:15
Like the yeah, I was still like you're under building the retail. We want to see more retail. I mean, you'd be able to kind of 00:47:21
negotiate it at that point as opposed to right now. It's just it's hard to know the level of intensity, Okay. 00:47:26
Yeah. So if I can. 00:47:32
Maybe under residential intensity, you know, we scratched the maximum residential density and we in essence modify or scratch the 00:47:35
that it may be increased instead out of condition that it specifies mixed-use residential because we've scratched the standalone. 00:47:44
So mixed-use residential may be permitted, it permitted through a development agreement. 00:47:52
Yeah. 00:48:00
Yeah. And then remove the, I think this is gonna be said, but yeah. And then remove the density, the 26 units per breaker, I would 00:48:02
just take that out. Yep. 00:48:05
Yeah, because it is. I agree with Morgan. It's difficult to judge that that intensity without knowing. I mean, there's lots of 00:48:10
different metrics and ways of doing it. And so it's better as well as timing because with your development agreement, you have the 00:48:17
opportunity to see what's there and what's being provided at that time. And you, you also, it puts you in a pretty strong position 00:48:24
because it's looked at a development agreement from a land use side, like when it's actually providing like land use. 00:48:30
Allowances. 00:48:38
At that point and you know, you'd have the ability to to control the project. So you don't get, you know, like residential 00:49:10
spilling all the way down to six spots or something like that. 00:49:15
And then? 00:49:25
So as far as right now I. 00:49:26
Then you guys had it as mixed-use in just the top lot essentially or? 00:49:30
Or rather that the. 00:49:37
How do I want to wear this that? 00:49:40
Buildings match what's on the northern part of the property you guys had for just the very northernmost lot. 00:49:42
Is that something that can be moved It Morgan was saying in for the comments from staff that they want to see four lots. Obviously 00:49:51
with Central Utah water that might be not possible. Yeah, we we would need to call out out the lots if I mean we you could say 00:50:00
1514 and 12 of this flat and then lot 8 of the of the original plat if you wanted like like kind of those four or whatever. 00:50:10
The number is I mean that that's where I think maybe here for the applicant has to like what they would be willing to do 00:50:20
beautiful. 00:50:24
So you're talking about the the design? 00:50:29
Being similar. 00:50:34
Yeah. So the design elements fading a little bit more into other property instead of just being the 1.9 acre lot going into two, 00:50:35
but up to four lots. Yeah. And I mean and as it's written, it does, it's not like one of them would be. 00:50:44
Look completely different than all the others 'cause it does require consistency throughout, but that I think that's something 00:50:54
that I mean that the Northern we'd identify those lots have. 00:51:01
Design similar to the mixtures building across the street is that. 00:51:09
Up to four lots being mixed-use, whether that's retail and office or retail or the actual requirement that it is mixed-use. Yeah. 00:51:17
And so Worry and I, we've had conversations about it and I think. 00:51:24
That is, that's a concern. 00:51:32
We're I'm not aware of any zoning codes that requires a specific use for a specific property and so. 00:51:35
But I, I don't to limit the, the options and say you have to do this. We think is, is a little more of a ask than what we think. 00:51:46
But you know, what we're proposing is much more than what you have now in essence with the design guidelines. And so to push that 00:51:55
further and say, well, not only does it have to look this way, but it has to be this use. 00:52:03
I don't think we're comfortable. 00:52:13
To give that up at this point, OK. 00:52:17
OK. If that's, I mean if that makes sense. Yeah, Yeah, I understand. Well, I guess the concern is getting, you know, I mean if we 00:52:20
take out standalone residential and and they did a residential project there, then that would push it into a mixed-use category, 00:52:27
you know, just because you can't do standalone. 00:52:33
I, I don't know, I mean, it's, it's, it's something that like we've, we've talked about quite, quite a bit. I think that was kind 00:52:41
of like the overall like vision of what the city when we looked at the side is having something compatible with the, the, the, 00:52:48
that northern project. And that's a much larger project than you know, when you're just looking at like 1 lot. 00:52:54
I, I, I don't know if, if that really does it, but you know, if the form, I mean that we're really talking about like the urban 00:53:02
form, then maybe the specific use. And if you take away the standalone residential, then you may get like that mixed-use filling 00:53:08
anyway. Or if you got a large office building that had a decent urban form that was similar to across the street that that that 00:53:15
probably gets us there. I mean, I would think that's that that's kind of the. 00:53:21
I would say like, like the goal of the city. 00:53:29
Is to have just a good urban form so that that functions like a like a nice gateway as you come in, you have stuff that kind of 00:53:31
same multiple size, yeah. 00:53:35
Yeah. And I mean, I think we've taken that to heart with the design guidelines that we've incorporated. The intent is to bring it 00:53:39
as close to Geneva Rd. you know, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about with the. I think on the that front 00:53:45
set back, we're OK eliminating the set back from that access easement and just utilizing the front property line. We just included 00:53:51
it because we recognize it exists on the plat. 00:53:57
But the you know, the five foot set back in essence to be able to utilize and push those buildings. 00:54:04
As close to Geneva road to provide that that gateway feature on both sides of of 400 N is is the intent. 00:54:10
OK. You guys have any questions? 00:54:21
I'm still concerned just about the vacuums and 40 feet. I was reading a. 00:54:25
Some BYU professors put out stuff on the wiki watch specifically at one where they measured the volume and the nuisance it created 00:54:32
and the distance from the neighbors. They calculated topic of a wall in here that that you would need a wall doesn't do much. They 00:54:38
said, you know, 100 foot, 12 foot cement wall, you're going to lower decibels by like 3 or 4 decibels. So I just want to make 00:54:44
sure, you know, we acknowledge if it's 40 feet. 00:54:50
What it's going to be, I do think it's gonna be a nuisance for people that are living there. And I think in Edgewater some of 00:54:57
those are rentals investments, but I think some are individually owned as well. A lot of us do own those units we do live in own 00:55:05
them yeah as well. One of the the things that's important to note about that Wiggy Wash and Orem is the way the building was 00:55:12
already on it and the exit cause the exit with the dryers are what's facing the residential and that's where. 00:55:20
The noise comes from the, the noise on the entrance side is half to 1/3 than what it is on the exit side with the dryers and with 00:55:27
the blowers. And so that's one of the things that we're incorporating and making sure that it's not exiting towards the 00:55:34
residential units, it's exiting towards Geneva Road. And we've proposed that you know they at least 25 feet and I mean we're, we 00:55:41
can increase that. 00:55:48
To 35 feet. 00:55:56
If that would make you more comfortable to make sure that those the vacuums are pushed away. Morgan also had mentioned that 00:55:59
landscaping. 00:56:03
Buffer that 10 foot. I think it's. 00:56:08
I agree and I think it's appropriate that as one of the conditions or that is one of the standards we identify what kind of 00:56:12
landscaping goes in that that buffer that's you know trees and shrubs. It's not grass and flowers that don't. 00:56:21
Have an impact on the South yeah, I don't think I mean if 100 foot 12 foot wall won't decrease out I don't think we can expect it 00:56:31
yeah the difference between like. 00:56:36
Trees and chubbery it that they absorb sound where the wall will bounce sound around and sometimes that creates more an extra 00:56:44
sound. It is terrible. So if we can't, I don't know, I'd love to see. 00:56:52
I'd love to see what. 00:57:01
Would mitigate the sound by enough decibels that. 00:57:05
When we're outside of our homes, we don't. 00:57:11
Like we, we barely know there's car wash behind there, you know, it'll be hard to go from empty lots to very, very loud. 00:57:15
Yeah, I don't. I did not. I don't have them with me. I apologize because I thought about that on the way down. I should have 00:57:26
grabbed those. 00:57:30
What's the decibel ordinance? Is it very clear hours? It is, it's yeah, it's depends on the hours. So obviously like late at 00:57:34
night, it's it's much lower and that's, and that's one thing where the code does help out. They've, you know, after 9:00 PM it it 00:57:40
drops off. 00:57:46
But it's measured at the property lines here. 00:57:54
Sorry if this board is everybody. 00:58:02
So I think the other thing. 00:58:08
So 65 decibels during during the daytime. 00:58:10
And that and that's and that and that's measured at the property line. Yeah, our sound, our noise awareness was put in place when 00:58:14
we were in just an agricultural community. So we actually might need to update that, that a little bit, but it's 65 at the and 00:58:19
that's measured at the property line. 00:58:25
And we have a noise meter. I mean, we could drive around and. 00:58:33
The hours in it as well, yeah, that says to 10:30 PM, is that right? Yeah, 7:00 AM to 10:30 PM So their code actually brings it, 00:58:37
brings it earlier an hour and a half. 00:58:43
Right. 00:58:49
That's for operation, but the noise. 00:58:51
Yeah, I like that inclusion. I guess I'm just wondering. 00:59:25
Like you will want it to be a lower decibel at the property line by the residentials. 00:59:30
And it's probably established what that is as well during hours of use and not just during quiet hours. 00:59:37
If that makes sense. 00:59:45
Because everyone gets home between like four and then we're all generally outside. 00:59:47
Until 7:00 or 8:00 and we gotta hear each other talking, then I don't know. It's not a very good community feeling. 00:59:55
Do you know specifically what law you're looking at? Yeah, I mean, I think no, to answer your question, no. And that's one of the 01:00:09
things that were we've kind of talked to staff and went through these things where we're talking about the zoning code as opposed 01:00:14
to a specific site plan. And so it's kind of. 01:00:19
You know, chicken and egg. As far as identifying specific uses, again, what kind of back that specific uses on specific lots? 01:00:25
And I will kind of point out, and Jason mentioned this before, right now it's a conditional use under the RMU. And so this 01:00:34
actually provides standards at what we don't have now. So it increases those standards, our conditional use permit, it would allow 01:00:41
us to add conditions to help mitigate, you know, potential impacts. But the strongest, most enforceable standards you can have the 01:00:49
ones that are written in the code. So if we put one in there and said must have a, you know, a 200 foot set back. 01:00:56
You know, during the instrument they could say, well, that's, that's impossible, that's, that's, that's unreasonable and we 01:01:04
probably wouldn't lose that. And so, so in a way like this actually provides us some, some some good standards that, and then if 01:01:09
we pushed it back 35 feet and maybe added trees. 01:01:14
That might not get us 100% there, but I, I think that's getting this kind of where where we're looking. What about hours of 01:01:20
operation? I mean, is, is 9, is 9:00 the, is that their standard, the for the user you guys are working with? That's my 01:01:25
understanding, yeah. 01:01:30
Instead of the standard. 01:01:36
Yeah. And I don't think that's year round or all the time, but that is they do utilize that. What about Sundays because I I mean 01:01:39
is, would it be closed on Sunday? 01:01:45
I personally am comfortable. 01:01:56
With allowing car washes as long as we have very strict. 01:01:58
Measurement of decibel at property line towards residential. Does that make sense? So I. 01:02:04
Yeah, the vacuums. 01:02:13
Sure, yeah. 01:02:18
So when you're talking about the decibels, are you the measured decibels while operating? We need to decide what is okay. 01:02:20
When it like it. 01:02:31
At the property line where it hits residential. So if we can determine. 01:02:34
A something that works for you know that is reasonable. 01:02:41
It is a car wash but also is comfortable for people living there. 01:02:46
But if we can both win, that's where I want to hit. Yeah. More. What was the noise or this language again? Sorry. It's 65 decibels 01:02:52
and that's a it's a weighted decibels measurement. So I'm not sure what that means, but 65, that's what we have a sound meter. So 01:02:59
we were just look at it during the day or is that. 01:03:05
7:00 AM to 10:30 PM and that's 65 decibels currently. 01:03:13
Normal conversation. 01:03:21
Yeah. So I mean that's the existing standard. OK. So nuisance ordinance, that was what I was wondering if that was just quiet 01:03:24
hours or regular time. OK, Yeah. I mean kind of the tough things too is if you if you do allow a car wash, I mean, obviously, I 01:03:30
mean, I think that's a sustained noise volume, right? Isn't that like that? So you know, you might have as you were talking, you 01:03:36
know. 01:03:43
A kid might scream and so you're going to shoot up, but it's talking about like on your average sustained decibels. 01:03:50
And and reality, there may be times where the vacuum is gonna gonna go over because if you feel, if you look up looks like you're 01:03:57
saying it's like a normal conversation, maybe you're talking. 01:04:01
You know, a little exaggerated or something, but it's not, it's not like screaming, but like it's like a general. 01:04:07
Does that's fine. 01:04:17
Yeah, if we wanted to so. 01:04:20
I mean, that's, that's kind of up to the Commission. If you if you wanted to see the the noise studies, then that that would 01:04:23
require continuing it to have to, to get kind of that, that data from the from the applicant unless you feel comfortable with 01:04:29
maybe a condition or something like that. 01:04:35
So I'm not sure really how to happen. 01:04:43
Is that something you guys want to see is some kind of studies showing what there is? There are a lot of conditions, more than I 01:04:46
think we've seen in something in ever maybe I think I've ever seen. Personally, I'd be fine continuing it just because I would 01:04:51
like to see the conditions that you have. 01:04:57
Made made as changes into the code. 01:05:04
If if I can propose you know that as part of that permitted use a sound study. 01:05:09
Is provided. 01:05:18
To show that it meets the the noise ordinance requirements. Yeah. 01:05:20
I like that a lot. 01:05:25
Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to get permits. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good condition. So. 01:05:32
And they say how do we craft that? So with the other conditions, the things that you have planned like when you file for site plan 01:05:39
A, a noise study. 01:05:44
From the proper property line is provided showing what the what the dust that. 01:05:49
What the decibels will be and that it shall meet the noise ordinance of the city. Do you do you think Jason, from what you've seen 01:05:54
that at. 01:06:00
A 35 foot set back at the property line you'd be able to meet the 65. 01:06:06
Decibel, I don't want to put you in a position where you're like guaranteed to lose on this, but I just want I I'm not an agnoise 01:06:12
engineer, it's our sound engineer. I have no idea. From what I've seen in the studies I've seen the the noise issue does not come 01:06:19
from the entrance side, it's the exit side and so the blowers. 01:06:26
And so, I mean, yeah, I think. 01:06:34
But that's something that's. 01:06:38
Can be obtained yeah. And if for some reason it goes over then that even though it's just a permitted use site plan they had they 01:06:41
would have to meet that. And so that that would mean if they need to add more trees, if they need to scoot the the vacuums back, I 01:06:49
mean basically that condition would would say they they would have to meet that that, that requirement no matter what they have to 01:06:56
meet the code. You know I, I personally would be comfortable with that, but they they would have to have like a sound engineer. 01:07:03
Make a submission, I'm sure a car wash, if there are, you know, a large car wash that and they've done that a million times. I'm 01:07:11
sure that's a requirement in a lot of communities, right? Yeah. I mean, if they do their due diligence, we see the data and that 01:07:17
all tracks, I'm comfortable with that being added as a permitted use. Yeah. And then it kind of depends. I mean, they have the 01:07:24
blowers and the vacuums themselves don't make a lot of noise. It's just. 01:07:30
Where they have their compressors, where they have their. 01:07:37
The actual vacuums, not the hoses and stuff, but the actual vacuums. But things like that need to be enclosed I think. 01:07:41
Can I make a comment Eric? Eric with X Development as the applicant. Eric Towner. I think we need to remember these homes are 200 01:07:49
feet away from Geneva Rd. with 18 wheel semi trucks on what's going to be a 7 lane highway planned by U dot. 01:07:56
Currently we have a conditional use allowed here permitted that would be a lot less stringent than what we're proposing today. I 01:08:06
don't see a need to add anything above and beyond your current city code where you have noise ordinances already in place. To tie 01:08:12
it to a development zoning code makes no sense to me whatsoever. 01:08:17
For a myriad of reasons, finance ability, leaseability, actually getting a project out of the ground. The more you guys like to 01:08:25
tie these things that make sense, I understand in this room. 01:08:30
It doesn't make sense outside of this room being next to Geneva Rd. I think would be something to contemplate and really think 01:08:35
about. We're next to A7 lane highway. What what you does planned here? 01:08:41
And what we are requiring is mostly the biggest, the biggest issue I've seen with car washes is the orientation of the dryers. I, 01:08:49
I don't think it makes sense to put those dryers towards the residents. And so that's why we've required it to go towards Geneva 01:08:54
Rd. Even though that might not be optimal for the site plan for the actual operator, I think that's better for the residents and 01:09:00
we can tie that today. Yeah. And that and my, my experience. So we did Platinum car Wash and Cotton Heights. I think I was now on 01:09:05
Mr. Car Wash. 01:09:11
They oriented their blowers away from the, the the residential uses because we have another one that had them like facing them and 01:09:17
it, it does, it does help. And so I, I didn't go out there with the noise beater, but that, that was the. 01:09:23
Like the most down generated can came from the blowers exiting. And so that does help substantially. But so how we have it written 01:09:30
is I know a study must be provided during the site plan submission that meets the noise ordinance. And so that that would then 01:09:36
give you the opportunity to, you know, they'd have to get a sound engineer or civil engineer that has, you know, experience with 01:09:42
those types of studies and submit as far as their package so. 01:09:48
For me personally, with the with the with that requiring the sound stuff. 01:09:55
Personally, I think it's kind of overkill because if they don't meet the ordinance. 01:10:01
And they're not complying with the city code, then they're going to have to go back and restructure stuff, which is a huge pain in 01:10:06
the **** I'm sure. So personally, I don't, I don't think it's necessary because it's going to cost them a lot more money to fix 01:10:12
something that they haven't done right in the 1st place. But. 01:10:18
Whatever you guys say. 01:10:26
Citizens to file complaints and go through that whole process of nuisance and then. 01:10:30
Possibly. 01:10:36
That we acquired a current enabled initiatives. 01:10:38
I think we should, we could require the vacuum to be at least 50 feet, the vacuum enclosure 50 feet. I think that I mean that's 01:10:41
double what I think was proposed in here originally because the sound, the sound orienting towards Geneva Rd. we've already 01:10:47
mitigated as well as we could that noise, right. So let's push the vacuums as far, you know, make a minimum of 50 foot distance on 01:10:53
the vacuum and then. 01:10:59
The doctor's father had not been assigned to study. 01:11:06
In which I'm not comfortable with doing any type of requirements above and beyond what we're currently allowed and and invested 01:11:11
with our rights with the zoning we're in today. Why would I rezone the project to something that's more stringent than I already 01:11:18
have today? I don't think it's necessary to do that. So I would say, let's, let's put design guideline requirements in here and 01:11:24
let's put orientation requirements. So move the vacuums with that requirement in today as a part of the code. 01:11:31
At no closer than 50 feet from the property line, let's require the orientation of the dryer to be pushed towards. 01:11:39
Towards Geneva Rd. I think those are some some winds that we can get out of this and on. 01:11:45
Well, and here's the other thing too. The the site planning code does allow for you to require. 01:11:54
Things to to demonstrate that, that they meet the code. So if you had a if you had a substantial, you know, concern about it, 01:12:02
that's something once they they came to you, you could say, you know, we would like a a noise study that shows that that you mean 01:12:07
the, the noise code or you could require it out front. I mean, it's it, it, it is that I mean, it ultimately is the City Council. 01:12:13
But I mean, if it's up to, you know, how you, you, you craft a recommendation. 01:12:19
Like post post development, getting the sound study done. 01:12:25
To, you know, see if it. 01:12:32
Is where it should be. 01:12:34
Is that it's difficult to get that done as if there's a speed study. 01:12:36
Here's the hard thing is once the development is operational and and going forward. 01:12:41
You know, like they're set in place, they have an approved site plan. Then typically you're gonna be dealing through code 01:12:48
enforcement. Yeah. And and it, it, it could get ugly. I mean, if you're, if you're showing like 90 decibels at the property of 01:12:54
mine on a continual basis sustained, then it's gonna be up to the city on on how they they want to enforce enforce it or, or not 01:13:00
enforce it. So. 01:13:06
You know, I it's always harder after the fact when something's been built to then try to come in and and enforce code, especially 01:13:13
on something we have infrastructure in place. 01:13:17
Yeah. 01:13:22
Is can we point something out to Brian? Did a search on on a car on a on a major car wash and it's showing closure at 8 PM, 7:30 01:13:24
AM to 8:00 PM and then on Sunday closing at 6:00 PM. And it actually seems pretty consistent with with most of the car washes in 01:13:32
the area. So I don't know if they would follow the same thing, but potentially. 01:13:41
It looks like the industry average might might even be closing early earlier, OK. 01:13:51
Having them comment on that. 01:13:57
Is a sound study something you guys is requiring a sound study something you guys have seen? It depends on the city. And like I 01:13:59
know Paradise Valley, that's a resort town. They have a lot of resorts and they have like a little outside concert venues within, 01:14:05
within some of their, their resorts. So the surrounding residents are very concerned about about noise. So they'll, they'll, 01:14:11
they'll require a noise study from a, you know, sound engineer. 01:14:18
So I mean, it's not, I don't know, maybe Park City and it's typically when you get in kind of like the resorting time communities 01:14:25
where. 01:14:28
It's someone's second home and they're on vacation and like they, they get a lot more concerned about that stuff. But I, I listen 01:14:32
to our valley. I haven't, I haven't heard of, of any, you know, we, we deal in code enforcement. So we, we tend to hear about the 01:14:40
more common stuff and noise at least like requiring like sound studies and those things. I haven't, I haven't heard of one here, 01:14:47
but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So the, the wiki watch study in Oreo that's right here in the backyard. 01:14:54
Which is something far below, Yeah. But we know the complaints though that they were getting about that too. 01:15:03
Yeah, based off of that and I think they're about one day 53. 01:15:11
Just again, that wiggy wash is exiting towards the residential units. I think a better comparison would be the quick Lac by 01:15:18
Costco. And now they have the dryers facing the gas station and Costco. 01:15:25
And then the vacuums are right next to it. 01:15:32
Yeah. So I mean I. 01:15:39
It seems like like Eric mentioned that they would even push it and right now they're showing 25 feet, They're proposing 50 feet. I 01:15:40
mean that that seems pretty decent. I mean, you could, I mean, ultimately it is up to the plank Commission on your recommendation. 01:15:47
If you want to keep a noise study in there, you can so. 01:15:54
Yeah. 01:16:05
And it can't go into use. 01:16:10
Into a little that sound level verified yeah, I think I'm so I mean that that's a pretty good idea. I know from our our billion 01:16:13
official he says from a legal standpoint, it gets it starts to get more difficult holding up an occupancy. So if you let someone 01:16:19
go all the way to an occupancy and we've done it a few times with like number of units. 01:16:25
You know, like like in the totally farms, you know, there's like, like maybe we're requiring certain parks to come online before a 01:16:32
certain number of of units get get occupied. That, that that's really easier. But if it's something where it like they would have 01:16:38
to redesign the entire site, I, I'd be a little cautious. That's something I'd probably want to get a, an opinion from our, our 01:16:44
legal counsel. 01:16:50
Plus also with something like that if they were to build it then being next to Geneva Rd. like a highway Highway. According to 01:16:56
this highway noise is 70 to 80 decibels from 50 feet. 01:17:02
So even if they were to build their building and there was highway noise going on in the background, the highway noise might be. 01:17:07
Yeah, but the buildings are blocking a lot of the highway noise. Yeah, but I'm just saying that it would make it difficult to have 01:17:12
like. 01:17:17
I don't know. I if the landscape area has some solid tree, some solid Bush going on. It's like really like sucking in that noise 01:17:24
in the leaves like it should. And it's not just spray, but like it's at there and it's not just concrete noise bouncing around and 01:17:31
being louder. 01:17:38
That's already. 01:17:46
That's already huge and with the vacuums so far away with the blower spacing. Geneva. 01:17:48
And I know the things we've added tonight, the things that we are being presented, I like these conditions. 01:18:00
I feel OK about them. I don't feel like my neighbors are going to come and get me. 01:18:08
With the amended and see what we have in front of us. 01:18:15
I don't. I think that there are other. 01:18:23
I want it, I don't know. 01:18:32
That it's. 01:18:34
It might be too big of an *** if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Because it's it's a lot. 01:18:39
I mean, I think it would be expected that it'd be 35 feet if it was that. Or did you think it's fifty? Yeah, I mean 50 feet four. 01:18:50
And I think Bryce had mentioned Lutheran clothes. And so the vacuum enclosure would be 50 feet. 01:18:57
Away. I think we could get a lot of nuisance complaints from it, but I think we want development there as well. So yeah. 01:19:05
We're aware to get the process that, yeah. 01:19:13
And just real quick, I guess with the enclosures, how are they oriented? 01:19:17
It's very closed. I don't know how you're how they're planning on being closed or how that yeah, I think typically, I mean it's a 01:19:22
four wall solid structure that's I mean and there may even be some sound insulation. 01:19:28
Like pull into a building and we're talking where the vacuums are, the vacuum, the the parking stalls would be open and then the 01:19:35
vacuum enclosure sits separately. Oh, like the vacuum itself? Yes. OK. And is it just like the hose that sticks out? So you're 01:19:41
you're a kid. 01:19:47
Are these vacuum ones that you have to like activate or like when you pull it off? Like wherever the they turn on as soon as you 01:19:55
grab it? 01:19:59
When you guys are talking about vacuums, are you talking about the nozzles of the vacuums or the vacuum itself? 01:20:06
OK. But you guys are you guys when it's 50 feet? What are you talking about? The nozzles like that, the hoses, Yeah. 01:20:15
Yeah, I mean, it's 50 feet and enclosed. So it's enclosed, Yeah, if it's enclosed, you probably won't hear it at all, even if it 01:20:27
was 10 feet away from the ambulance. 01:20:32
But you didn't have any concerns about the nozzles or anything? Just really, I guess you bring that up. I was imagining it was 01:20:38
all. 01:20:41
And headline. So usually they do like one or two big vacuum units and then connect it through piping to the bays, the parking bays 01:20:45
and then you have the nozzles at each of the bays. So the the wiggy wash study, they based it off of the phase volume, but it was 01:20:53
still 53 and so 50 feet away for basically off of the day volume, which we similar to 2nd wise. 01:21:01
Ordinance so. 01:21:09
OK. How far, just out of curiosity, how far away are the bays themselves? Is there, is that written anywhere? Again, we're talking 01:21:12
site design stuff that Yeah, yeah, we're talking. We're trying to figure out the framework where we can do the site design and so. 01:21:19
OK, cool. OK. So noise study removing that. 01:21:27
Keeping it, I think we can and remove that personally. 01:21:34
So there's the. 01:21:40
We're modifying the vacuum distance to 50 feet and for the enclosure and it's enclosed and then so that was that the only addition 01:21:45
here for the car wash, the landscaping. 01:21:52
Yeah, yeah, the trees, yeah, they need to be actual plants that absorb noise. 01:22:05
OK, and we can add, I can work and modify the code. We can modify and make sure that. 01:22:11
The right terminology of species and. 01:22:19
Science Intensity. 01:22:23
Is that something you're comfortable this morning? Yeah, and and the landscaping plan would come back. 01:22:26
For site plan through the through the Planning Commission, yes. So you'd be able to see that too. So let me think. 01:22:31
OK, that's why I wasn't quite worried about landscaping yet. 01:22:39
It's time for you, right the 10. 01:22:45
I. 01:22:51
Just give me a second to take this out. 01:22:58
So, are you updating your condition? Excellent. 01:23:01
I can't see it though, my eyes are terrible. 01:23:04
As far as the other conditions that Morgan ever had, you guys are finding, yeah, I mean, I want to just look at the list one more 01:23:10
time, but I think we're fairly comfortable, although I do have another one. We probably want to make Public Utilities and public 01:23:18
facilities of permitted use. 01:23:26
Just because you have the century, because the water, Yeah, I think there are conditional use right now Like they they they went 01:23:37
through a conditional use permit. 01:23:41
So I would just, I would just keep it, yeah. 01:23:46
We've approved all this trying to make it easy for you. 01:23:52
A tenfold landscape buffer with trees and vegetation for the purposes of mitigating noise shall be provided adjacent to the 01:24:01
residential property lines. 01:24:05
For car wash uses. 01:24:13
Lots of they're talking about it, they they want to increase it, they could. 01:24:23
Yeah, that's the bottom line. A10 foot landscape buffer with trees and vegetation purposes mitigating noise shall be provided 01:24:34
adjacent to the residential property lines for car wash issues. 01:24:38
I'm hearing from the. 01:24:52
Audience that there's a pipeline under underneath there on the landscape buffer adjacent to the property line. 01:24:55
At 35 feet, is that what it is? Water and sewer? 01:25:02
That's what that 35 feet is for. 01:25:09
How, how? How was the easement language? 01:25:17
Like does it, does it have certain types of vegetation that's that's restricted? 01:25:22
Yeah, yeah. So there's, there's going to be some types of restrictions I think adjacent to the the wall there, but there's going 01:25:29
to be certain route restrictions. 01:25:34
A general landscaping, I think that we could definitely find some shrubs and some trees that will that will. 01:25:41
Be approved by the city for sure. 01:25:47
Where? Where exactly? 01:25:51
Inside of that 35 feet, we've got your storm water sewer. 01:25:55
Gas and power, yeah, inside that 35 feet. 01:26:02
Sullivan is there are the trees located in the O'reilly's lot. 01:26:05
Down in the back. 01:26:10
But I mean, landscape screening, I believe we're able to put Trello so fine. I, I think there's plenty of options we have, I think 01:26:17
with within. 01:26:22
Yeah, I'm just trying to think how to write this. Then. I mean, you could do so if you have 50 feet, you're going to have some 01:26:30
room. There's obviously you're going to have driveways and whatnot. Parking, however it's set up, we're not looking at the site 01:26:36
plan. It's hard to know. Would you be able to provide a landscape buffer? 01:26:41
That is, you know, is planted that provides some sort of separation between that and the residential property line. So I guess 01:26:47
what I'm saying is your your land, like maybe you create a landscape island within the development that provides the, you know, 01:26:54
the the buffer as opposed to adjacent to the property line. 01:27:00
So my concern is that you put it up there and then if you know the district has has authority to to restrict trees there, then 01:27:08
it's a condition that's not going to be fulfilled. I want something that's going to be enforceable. 01:27:14
O'reilly's looks like it has trees planted behind there, so it appears that the sewer line is about 30 feet east of the east 01:27:21
property line of Edgewater development and the water line sits within that area. So that whole area would be restricted as to what 01:27:28
type of vegetation could go in possibly. 01:27:35
Most. Most likely. 01:27:42
Is it just gala non deep education? Yeah, Typically there's any deep rooted vegetation. So you would be very limited on trees. 01:27:45
There would be some shrubbery that would probably be allowed, but I doubt you'd get the the height that you needed to block the 01:27:51
noise adequately in my opinion. Sullivan, have you guys. 01:27:57
Have you guys entertained the? 01:28:07
Semi below grade planter. 01:28:12
Options. 01:28:14
With enclosed root barriers. 01:28:16
I don't know that we've looked at those specifically. I guess our. 01:28:19
Our view would be, you know, what the longevity of those plants would be if you're restricting the root, you know, system and then 01:28:24
if you had to come in there and excavate the water line and whatnot. 01:28:30
Would you be able to move those boxes to get those out of the way? How easy would that be? And, and whose responsibility? I mean, 01:28:37
typically what, what our. 01:28:42
Responsibilities are, is we're responsible for repair and maintenance of water lines. Anything below the ground we would bring 01:28:46
back up to, to subgrade or, or, or, you know, grade level if it's not paved. And then you or the, the property owner is 01:28:53
responsible for any repairs or reparations above grade. So anything like that, you know, we feel like we have the authority to 01:29:00
move. I think it's damaging that moving. 01:29:06
Then then we wouldn't be responsible for the repair. 01:29:13
So you're saying the water line is 30 feet off the process, The sewer line is sewer line and so within that 30 feet is the water? 01:29:18
Yeah, and I don't have that. Let me pull that up. So you're correct. 01:29:28
Water lines. Let's pull that up here real quick. 01:29:34
So if I can. 01:29:40
I think there's the storm drain is next. There's definitely some constraints. However, the condition in the zoning ordinance is 01:29:44
going to have to be fulfilled. And so I mean, I think we could go through and pull up a list of plants and identify the specific 01:29:51
ones or we could move. I mean, basically you're saying this has to be done and it has to be done for noise mitigation purposes and 01:29:58
it's going to be reviewed again. 01:30:05
That site plan and so you know, rather than putting the onus on you per se, like basically it's up to the developers to make sure 01:30:13
that this requirement is fulfilled. So if you take out 13, so if you take that back out the 10 foot landscape buffer, do I mean 01:30:20
they are increasing the set back up to 50 feet. I think that's A and that double s it from the 25 feet that was originally 01:30:26
proposed. 01:30:33
But without being able to put trees there, I think you have to move forward with kind of the assumption that you're not going to 01:30:42
have trees there. Are you? Or do you want a sound study? 01:30:46
You can still request 1:00 during the site plan. It provides the Planning Commission the ability to request information to make 01:30:51
sure code is met, but it's always a lot stronger if it's just up front in the code. Would you guys feel more comfortable with 01:30:57
having #13 in there or having a sound study in there? 01:31:02
And what's the concern are you guys designed with with doing a sound study? 01:31:11
Let me ask you this too. Would they be, I mean, if they could provide the landscape buffer with the trees and stuff around the 01:31:17
equipment that's making the noise that may be perhaps further from the, you know, like if you're, if you're a compressor, you're 01:31:23
you're vacuum is 50 feet from the parking line and you surround that with a planter and trees, then you're going to restrict that 01:31:28
noise to that location. 01:31:34
The sound study with the issue is we're dealing with a certain size lot, a small lot that has constraints and we're talking about 01:31:41
specific site design elements that yes, it might be possible, but if we require the site or the sound study, it's up to them to 01:31:48
make sure that it it meets the standards. And if that means putting a landscape island in, they'll put a landscape island in if 01:31:55
there's vegetation that they can put in that 10 skateland landscaping buffer. 01:32:03
That won't interfere. That's approved by the city. They'll do that. 01:32:11
Sounds good. Yeah, Yeah. 01:32:18
I. 01:32:22
Anything else? Any other questions? 01:32:26
No, I flipped through everything again. So. 01:32:29
It'd be nice to see it all. 01:32:32
All right. Together, yeah. 01:32:35
Sorry, are you saying you want to? 01:32:39
Continue it or. 01:32:44
I think you might continue just so we can see it all put together and. 01:32:46
I don't know. 01:32:52
Our hope was to go before. 01:32:56
City Council, you know, and that's why we've worked really hard to make those modifications and quite honestly, these conditions. 01:32:58
Most of them are. 01:33:08
Converting the shells or the maize to be shells, in a lot of instances there's nothing. I don't see anything in here that's not. 01:33:10
There's nothing new in here that's not addressed. In essence, it's moving parking. So parking requirements, instead of it being up 01:33:21
to the city planner, it's up to the zoning code. 01:33:26
You know I. 01:33:33
Something that's not in here Morgan is the removing residential and making it developer agreement. 01:33:35
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the biggest substantive change, right? I mean, that's just like that's just my learning disorder to 01:33:44
need to see it in my in my face, but. 01:33:50
Yes, that means. 01:33:58
And on that, Morgan, sorry, let me bring this up so I can end it. 01:33:59
Sorry, could we make it also with the development agreement? 01:34:11
Do you think it makes sense to make it to say with the development agreement they could go up to 26 units per acre or? 01:34:17
Should we leave it open? 01:34:25
Just one second, Sir. 01:34:31
I. 01:34:48
I. 01:35:00
In this case, we're removing residential completely, but then we allow it through the provision of a development grant. So that's 01:35:41
that's the worst things. We're moving it from the table. 01:35:46
Yeah. So mixed-use residential, Yeah, there's can be permitted through a development agreement, yeah. 01:35:51
OK. I'm sorry, Bryce, what were you saying and then? 01:36:06
Do you think we should make a cap on that as well? 01:36:09
Now, well, how, if you, if you wanted, The thing is, I'm a little concerned with that because I kind of want the, the market to, 01:36:13
to drive it. So let's say they want to take the top like 2 watts or the, you know, 2 1/2 lots, not including the, the district's 01:36:21
property. But if they wanted to to do those, you know, I, I, I'd like it to be more driven by, by the design. You have the 01:36:28
architect look at it, you know what, what's going to make a great product and then they come through. 01:36:36
The Planning Commission of City Council, because they're going through a development agreement to get more residential, it 01:36:43
actually provides the, you know, the city quite, quite a bit of power. And like if they come in with 300 units, you know, you 01:36:50
could say, well, I mean, you could treat it essentially like like a zone change. But unless, if you want to just for like just to 01:36:57
tap it at 100 or I don't know if you want to talk to the applicant to see kind of what. So I just wanted to be such that. 01:37:04
The city feels like they don't have to do anything. 01:37:12
Like they don't need to improve anything, but it would have to be some some circumstance that's abnormal that they would want to. 01:37:16
So how considerate how how we put in the code. 01:37:25
As a. 01:37:30
So, OK, so mixing residential may be permitted through the approval of a development agreement. So it may and that and that's the 01:37:33
time where it's going to use may, like the city of May approve it. You're not, you're not required to to approve it. And 01:37:39
essentially it's considered a zone change. And so it's not it, it doesn't like you, you have more power from a, from a City side 01:37:46
requiring them to go through a development agreement and there would be like a public hearing and everything. 01:37:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like the whole way farms. They would go through public hearing with the Planning Commission and City 01:38:00
Council. 01:38:03
OK. It'd be, it'd be approved by by a national ordinance like an ordinance number with the warehouses and all that. So. 01:38:07
OK. And it's already pretty limited just just by virtue of? 01:38:15
The allowed height of the building, yeah. 01:38:21
Yes, I mean you could if you, if you're concerned about you could, you could restrict where residential is is located. 01:38:24
And so that that might have further restricted if you want to say like the. 01:38:33
Death. You want to ignore that so. 01:38:39
The top 2 northern lot, what do you think? Yeah, so it makes use residential may be permitted through a development agreement on 01:38:43
the northern. 01:38:47
Two lots. 3 lots. 01:38:53
2 1/2 lots 4 lots the northern 4 lots of. 01:38:56
How about that? 01:39:03
Yeah, we need you can get the lot. 01:39:04
Negotiated through our DA, you said. 01:39:09
So lot 881214 and 15, yeah. 01:39:13
He's like, you know what? I was 1314 and 15. 01:39:24
Yeah, we could do 12/13/14 and 15. 01:39:28
It's just those, Yeah, 12 doesn't count, but eight? We could just, like, build a little branch over the world. 01:39:31
I'm just thinking about how long many units could be on here. 01:39:43
What do you guys think? 01:39:52
Yeah, I think that puts it like a Max of four stories just. 01:39:54
I mean, we haven't had have won this intense in a long time. 01:40:00
That's a lot, and would be a lot. 01:40:05
With the northern 215. 01:40:10
15. 01:40:16
Retail. 01:40:20
I mean as far as. 01:40:21
Yeah, it would be nice to not have to do that, but also like. 01:40:25
It's. 01:40:34
There anything you wanted to add Morgan, I will bring it back on. 01:40:37
OK. So 3 mixed-use residential may be permitted through the approval of the development agreement laws ADA to achieve the retail 01:40:51
front of subdivision flat and lots 1214 and 15 of the Dominican retail fund and subdivision property. 01:40:58
Oh, that's what. That's what's right. 01:41:10
All right, give me a second. 01:41:13
We're getting there. 01:41:17
At 12/14/15. 01:41:20
Of yeah. 01:41:22
Isn't that right? That's not right. 01:41:27
That's right. 01:41:30
Yeah, that's right. 01:41:32
I don't think there was one. OK, sorry. I thought you were saying that I mixed up the lot. Sorry. I think we're good. 01:41:36
There you go. Anything else you guys wanted to add or? 01:41:45
I can't think of anything else. OK, all right. I have a motion then. 01:41:51
Is it too? 01:41:59
Recommend. 01:42:01
Yeah. So here one second, let me get to that. So, yeah, so I motion to forward a positive recommendation to the City Council Board 01:42:03
and it was 20/22/09 for the Geneva Rd. makes you kind of read that out and then with conditions. 01:42:11
With the 14. 01:42:20
Yeah, with the 14 conditions listed in the staff route that the staff presentation provided on June 22nd, 2022. So you just change 01:42:23
a lot into 14. Okay. I motion to forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022-09 for the Geneva Rd. 01:42:30
mixed-use District Zoning Text Amendment and Zoning Map amendment with the 14 conditions listed in the staff presentation provided 01:42:38
on June 22nd, 2022. 01:42:45
I apologize and this is really annoying. Could you add this one to just reread it? But say with the 14 conditions as modified 01:42:53
listed in the staff presentation, I would say as modified. So it's it's clear that they're modified conditions as modified. Okay. 01:43:01
I'm motion to you forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022, Dash 09. 01:43:10
For the Geneva Rd. mixed-use District Zoning Text amendment and Zoning Map amendment with the 14 conditions as modified. 01:43:18
By staff. 01:43:29
Listed in the staff presentation by Nineteen 22nd 2022. Is there a second second? 01:43:32
Yes. 01:43:41
Hi. 01:43:45
Hey. Hi, Bryce. I. 01:43:46
All right, great. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks. Can I have like 5 minutes? 01:43:49
Like just a 5 minute break real quick. These conversations are really. 01:43:56
What's important to you and what we need to be focusing on as we transition to site design So. 01:44:03
Because it'll be back before you do 5.2 hold away farms development agreement. Do I have a motion to open a public hearing? 01:44:08
Aye. So move right a second. Second. All in favor. Aye, Aye. All right. We are in a public hearing. We have a presentation by 01:44:17
Morgan. All right. 01:44:23
Well, that was fun. 01:44:49
Every now and then we, we, we get one of those kind of complex ones. So that's, that was a big one. I mean a mixed-use district 01:44:50
with a, with a zoning map amount of. So I appreciate your guys patience and, and being able to, to dig through those, those 01:44:56
important issues. So tonight it's not necessarily as much as a presentation. I'll have the development agreement up the project 01:45:02
that was approved the whole way. 01:45:08
Farms special zoning district and and overall like neighborhood plan that's that was approved in the past. 01:45:15
Is, you know, same plan, so the things that you've you've looked at and considered in the past. 01:45:22
Nothing has just changed in, in that regard. What this development agreement does is that provides kind of the the ability with, 01:45:29
with phasing. That's a really important thing as we know with like Main Street and foreigners South, it's always like it's gonna 01:45:36
keep coming up. Helps us to get a better idea of kind of when those elements will come online. 01:45:42
There's also like an infrastructure kind of some of the things that you didn't. 01:45:51
That more of staff has worked on is the. 01:45:55
Is there the collector roads and foreigners South and Main Street those are? 01:45:59
You know, under our plan it shows putting collective roads in, we can only require the developer to build infrastructure to fit 01:46:06
their needs. And so we're required to take it from a local up to a collector standard if we want the full collector and so it it 01:46:12
provides. 01:46:18
Basically an agreement in there that the city will help participate. 01:46:26
And those two Rd. segments to get it from, you know, to get it up to the fall collector road right of way and it caps it at 01:46:30
$250,000. And so it provides kind of some safeguard in, in, in that regard. 01:46:37
The the phasing kind of the important things to point out. I know this has also been a concern with other developments. I'm 01:46:46
wanting to make sure that amenities come online sooner rather than later. If you remember the entrance park, that's the the park 01:46:51
that sits behind. 01:46:56
Jake Holdaways house and how we have that written is that that will be completed before the 103rd certificate of occupancy. 01:47:03
The community park. 01:47:14
Would come, that's the kind of the trailhead park that sits above the adjacent Lake Park and that would come online prior to the 01:47:17
163rd certificate of occupancy and the neighborhood park would come online prior to the 222nd certificate of occupancy. And we 01:47:25
also have the private amenities that are associated with the age restricted units. 01:47:33
And so the clubhouse pool and the kind of the associated amenities, recreational amenities with them and those would be required 01:47:42
to be. 01:47:46
Final prior to the 63rd age restricted unit and so we felt it was important to make sure that I've had those those in there so 01:47:51
that we're not waiting till the very end before amenities come online. If you kind of remember with with water's edge we didn't 01:47:57
have a lot of those things in place. And so you know the clubhouses and the parks came online way after residents have been there. 01:48:03
So it was several years of residents living in the development. So we took all those importance make sure that the development 01:48:09
agreement. 01:48:15
Play to that the same anything from anything that you'd want to highlight for maybe the infrastructure standpoint. 01:48:21
So in regards to the non development agreement on infrastructure, I think there's one item that probably highlight that the 01:48:30
developers are doing is on the park space that they're they're incorporating underground detention system into the park space. You 01:48:37
know, I just want to highlight that that's kind of. 01:48:44
Well used of optimizing space, the green space and ensuring about with and me and the storm and water quality but. 01:48:53
Facility that I need so I know in the past in other areas that yeah there's like called that that zones that spaces on there. So I 01:49:02
want I want to highlight the developers. 01:49:09
Taking the opportunity to do something like that, that's on the West side, like the larger park on the West side on that. And then 01:49:18
of course in terms of the development agreement when it comes to the infrastructure that we discussed and I believe, I believe 01:49:24
Morgan touched up on it with the connection of for Main Street and 400 S that where that connection connectivity being tied to to 01:49:31
Phase 2. 01:49:37
Of that of the particular development. 01:49:43
Oh, so, so with that being said, obviously working, working with developer to ensure that while that's going in that we're 01:49:47
incorporating other other parts of the infrastructure traffic system to ensure that when that goes in that we're that the cities 01:49:54
kind of incorporating other, incorporating other traffic needs as well to the surrounding and then zip and nail portion of it. The 01:50:01
development agreement has a developer. 01:50:08
Providing support to the city in terms of doing the traffic, traffic calming study. 01:50:16
For an area that's outside their development and due to that would be corporate is part of it future connectivity which is where 01:50:22
the where the connection is going to be made by a different developer as well. The city would still be the one that would 01:50:30
implement the actual measures at the deems necessary in order excuse me in order to accommodate. 01:50:37
Proper traffic calming measures along Zippendale, but we feel confident that the developer has gone. 01:50:46
Well, to a limit of. 01:50:54
Cooperation with the city. 01:50:56
And Bryce, I believe you had and thank you, Miss Sam. I believe Andy correct confirm you, you brought up two things when you 01:51:00
reviewed the development agreement. One was to have the Planning Commission review the traffic calming measures prior to the city 01:51:07
engineer approving the city engineer sales authority to approve those. But you'd at least be able to say, no, we don't want a 01:51:14
bunch of speed bonds. Or you know, you could, you could look at some, some of the the options out there being provided. 01:51:21
Yeah. So I think we could if you in your motion, if you approve it, then I would, you know, add that in there. Yeah. And then the 01:51:28
other item I believe you had mentioned this is we have the same here to discuss this. But so building out the park and the road in 01:51:38
phase two, but not making the connection to Zinfandel Lane until the end of the project. So like in phase eight, I believe. 01:51:47
And so the scene wasn't here for when we had that conversation, but. 01:51:57
That might be good out here and maybe the developers gonna provide their comfort. Yeah, making again with 7 Dale making the 01:52:01
connection to from the proposed development to the existing Zippendale on the north side would require to. 01:52:09
First, in coordination cooperation with the current the minor in center which is home center. I have no doubt that home center on 01:52:19
their development with accommodate that What I would say is that I think that we take into consideration. 01:52:26
The situation at the time of the connections are being made in terms of that we're making the making connections. 01:52:34
Early or may be able to help provide for some type of additional connectivity especially for the individuals who live on 01:52:45
Zippendale as well. So the problem that I'm seeing with the residents on Zinfandel is that they don't want us at the very least. 01:52:54
They want Main Street to connect to Florida South. They don't want Zinfandel to be an option for people to exit or enter the rest 01:53:04
of the city because of that neighborhood. Probably 80% of them have kids under the age of five. So they don't want that to be 01:53:11
through Rd. I think for that for something I've had to change. And again, Morgan, I apologize for cutting you off, but I think 01:53:17
something like that for for that to change the home center development would have to. 01:53:24
I think that the plans is with the development of the North being home center. 01:53:31
Has to be made and I believe that was part of the city's plan all along. For that to change, we would there would have to be 01:53:37
other, other proposals and as well as the developer would have to make considerable changes. But not this developer, excuse me, 01:53:43
but the home center developer. We have to make some considerable changes to the design as well. 01:53:50
As far as designed to connect it, I mean I want it should connect. I'm just saying that you wanted to wait until after 4th South 01:53:58
and mainstream connected before you open up the Zinfandel. 01:54:04
Is that right? Yeah, and I believe that would be done tent anyway, because again to make the connections of the bell, there would 01:54:11
be there's a second developer who's on the room that would have to that would be that we would have to do the coordination dance 01:54:17
with where the developer that that's currently in the room has. 01:54:23
Their, their, their, their construction development is tied to being able to make the connections for foreigners South and Main 01:54:30
St. in order to get the connectivity that they need in order to building permits. 01:54:35
Connection for $7.00 not yeah. But what I can say is when we do make the connection at Zippendale, we can the city can make sure 01:54:42
that any kind of additional measures for traffic comment that would need to be put in place would be I would, I would, I say this 01:54:50
as a state engineers, I would would want to see those things put in place parts in making the final connection. So this way. 01:54:58
Prior, so it requires for example 20 speed bumps, which I would not support anyway. 01:55:08
As I exaggerate example that we would install those 20 speed bumps before making a connection. So when drivers are on the road 01:55:14
that they're whatever traffic measures their their use is in place and that they get used to that power measures as far as their 01:55:21
half driving habits. So they can choose not to drive on Sippandale if they if they don't want to do that, yes. So should we put 01:55:29
something in this that just says I think you're you're city engineer. Here's you guys I I I don't. 01:55:36
He's gonna move, move. You know, it sounds like that would be his intent too. Is that that connection before he makes that? Cause 01:55:44
what could happen is if you make that connection first, I think what you're, what you're getting at is you're gonna have people 01:55:49
using that. And you know, Zinfandel turns into a collector Rd. when it, when you know, we, we would rather people their habits 01:55:55
get, you know, yeah. We don't want another whole guy. No offense. 01:56:01
But I don't think you need to put down the development grant, but if you want it there, we're happy to accommodate. 01:56:10
OK, OK. I don't I, I mean, if we're on the same page, I don't think that means to be there. Just wanted to make it clear. 01:56:15
So we just have the one the one change then. 01:56:24
I don't think you need to add that in the scene. I mean, however you want. I mean, he's here. He's hearing you that you want to 01:56:29
review it. We're on the same page, right? Yeah. 01:56:32
Try again. Yes, you don't necessarily get out as long as Naseem is here in a few years to like right here. 01:56:37
So the other the other thing it mentions in the in this. 01:56:47
Let me see if I can find it. As far as parking, it says that they'll go with the city's overnight parking plan, but we have 01:56:54
multiple. We have the one that's in the one neighborhood where people can get permits, and we have the one that's in the other 01:56:59
neighborhood where there are no permits. So I think we need to define that. 01:57:04
I'm trying to think of what we would call. 01:57:11
One versus the other, I mean, I think their intent was the permit parking, OK. And so we can clarify that, that they'll go with 01:57:14
the the the permit overnight parking. That's that's the difference between the two. One doesn't even allow it the other 01:57:20
department. 01:57:25
Is that right? 01:57:31
Let's add permit parking. I was, I did think it was awesome with the storm water in the parks. I was, I did have a question about 01:57:34
that. I don't anymore. And then the other thing I was wondering kind of with the street. 01:57:40
When this was going through the Planning Commission and the City Council, it was all we're going to connect. 01:57:47
Further South and Main St. This is a huge benefit for the city that we're connecting this and it's a lot of upfront cost for us to 01:57:53
do this. So I was really surprised to see that the city's like. 01:57:58
Has to provide the extra 250,000 to make it what you guys said it was going to be. 01:58:04
So I was just kind of disappointed in that. I know I've talked to Morgan a little bit about it, that legally you guys don't have 01:58:10
to, but. 01:58:14
I I just felt kind of gross inside after seeing that personally. 01:58:18
We don't want you to feel gross inside. 01:58:25
But I'll speak to that in our conversations from the very beginning a year and a half ago with Don Overson, that was very clear 01:58:30
upfront that the city would participate in the construction of the road. Yes, we did present that that would be made because we're 01:58:36
the land owners and we control whether that connections made unless you eminent domain it, we've donated the land. We're not 01:58:43
asking the city to pay for the cost of the extra land to construct the road, but from the very beginning. 01:58:49
In our meetings with staff and with Don specifically, was clear that we were. 01:58:56
That this was above and beyond for the project and would need to be paid for by the city. And so we weren't trying to hide it. It 01:59:01
was simply a conversation that we had an understanding on. And and, and yeah, we did point out that this project enabled the 01:59:09
connection of mainstream 4 S to take place. So, but you said you donated the land. So it is, are we getting more out of it than 01:59:16
even we're so we're getting, we're getting the land for the road that they that they originally proposed so. 01:59:23
To kind of point out so they yeah, So what the city is requiring is the 77 foot right of way. And you know, there's like 02:00:01
difference in here and like what they're required to is like the 56. And so basically they're they're not charged in the city for 02:00:08
the increase in land for the right of way so. 02:00:15
Yeah, it works out. 02:00:25
Is there anything, if you guys have a chance to go over this? Is there anything that you had questions about or comments about? 02:00:30
No, no. 02:00:37
Anything else you want to? 02:00:39
No, no, Yeah, this is a yeah. Our code just requires the public hearing. So I I think did you guys open the public hearing yet? 02:00:41
OK. 02:00:45
Yeah, I guess we'll have some public comments. 02:00:52
Hi, it's David, Loray, resident. 02:01:01
Yeah, I wanted to ask a little bit about the the continuation of 400 S because I look at the at the phase map where you know the 02:01:03
hot pink area is is zone 2. It shows that continuing out to the corner of Holloway Rd. 02:01:11
And which is cool, but I wonder what the city has has planned for. We're taking it from there over to the Orem border where where 02:01:20
it's because it's not it's not really room there for a four lane. You know this extra wide Rd. you're making here won't continue 02:01:27
and connect to the rest of our S would. 02:01:34
So how wide is how? It's a 77 foot wide Rd. isn't it? If I remember correctly off of the. 02:01:42
Yeah. I don't know what that that one portion is. Yeah. So I. 02:01:49
I'm talking about the one star which is on the east side of Geneva. No, I'm talking about 400 S just immediately east of Holdaway 02:01:56
Rd. 02:02:03
I understand so I mean the attack on the 400 S would be to east of four way roads 33 lane Rd. 02:02:12
It's a three line run. 02:02:20
Yeah, so. 02:02:26
I mean, it turns out, I mean the intent is to, excuse me, the intent is to provide like to we'll go through the track this 02:02:29
evening. We'll do the traffic transportation master plan in the next coming year to see exactly if there needs to be a widening of 02:02:37
bad roads going to the east side of things. Again, it comes, it kind of comes out to the double edged sword where you know you are 02:02:44
in the road, add more traffic and then you've got more you then get. 02:02:51
With higher speeds, which kind of which which conflicts with the land use of the park. You have the large park, you have the 02:02:59
elementary school, you have residential in that area, which again comes down to the cylindrical effects of having to not to play 02:03:05
on road diet. 02:03:11
And to decrease the volume and decrease the speed. I believe our intent is to maximize the right of way that we currently have in 02:03:17
order to incorporate active transportation. 02:03:25
Most means for example by bike lanes and so forth, and then try to address those narrow parts. 02:03:34
Narrow parts by incorporating trails, additional bikes on that not not to try to. 02:03:43
Increase the volume of cars that goes there, but to increase the accessibility of things, right? Yeah. My only concern is why are 02:03:49
we paying the extra money to have a wide Rd. If if, if there's that choke point, there's a wide anyway. Why pay extra, have a wire 02:03:56
Rd. when the rest of it isn't wide enough for the cars to get? How wide is is the proposed Rd. in comparison to the current 02:04:02
forecast? 02:04:08
Off the top of my head, I don't know what the difference is, but there with the development agreement shows that the development 02:04:15
agreement has where the city would pay up to a certain dollar amount the city does not have to. 02:04:20
Take advantage of that particular item, the developer can build the road as as it is obviously any kind of additional costs in the 02:04:25
future. The city would want to take the right away to preserve the preserve the corridor for any kind of future for any kind of 02:04:34
future that means. So we look at the math, the phasing map real quick. Is it possible to bring up on the screen? 02:04:43
But yes, I don't know, like I said to say, we want to take advantage of preserving the corridor for that wider right away. And 02:04:55
then of course, if the state chooses to go ahead with the wider areas, then we would do so with the planner trying to acquire some 02:05:02
right away at the areas where it does choke down. So perhaps it looks like I just answered your question that it may be off a 02:05:09
little bit on this, but it looks like it was about 60 feet for the three lane segment of. 02:05:17
400 S but that road didn't contemplate like bike lanes and and you know, the active transportation stuff. 02:05:24
So with and I saw, I saw in the agreement it's the 77 foot wide Rd. So that would include the bike lanes and the one lane each way 02:05:32
and the center lane I assume, yeah. 02:05:38
I'm really hiding in favor of the 77 foot wide Rd. going through all the way to Geneva Rd. I mean that that's I'd like to see that 02:05:45
or better, which I think we have if, if we fix that choke point right there just immediately east of where that pink ends. Looks 02:05:52
like there's some property there. It's in the way. 02:05:58
East side of that. 02:06:06
Area that's West of Holdaway Rd. as well. I know that's Jake Holdaways. It's actually east of of South Hallway Rd. the one that 02:06:10
goes up. 02:06:16
I understand there's a meaning problem there was far South and whether it's Holdaway Rd. there in that corner, that little strip 02:06:23
there, but the land right in front of Robert Kimora Holway's old home, that that's the place I'm looking at right in there. And 02:06:28
then it continues over I think over to Ashley. 02:06:32
Acres. 02:06:39
That's the strip I'm looking at there. Yeah. So the church, the church property and then Ashley Acres. 02:06:40
So again, to answer to answer the question in regards to that I mean. 02:06:48
Season the cities are going to go through transformation master plan next fiscal year and that's it. And that would be an area 02:06:52
that the city would obviously make some considerations as to is it work is in order to take right away from existing property. 02:06:58
It's much more expensive than trying to get right away from undeveloped properly, especially when the developer is donating to us 02:07:05
at no cost. 02:07:11
So that would be something that the city would have to see. What's the advantages of that financially as well as operationally? 02:07:18
And then turn into the budget in order to make to be able to acquire the set profit these side a whole wave Rd. actually looks 02:07:25
pretty good. This is a 60 foot. But I think what you're saying, David, is this right here like I'm saying, I'm saying like it's a 02:07:32
77 foot wide clear up to that corner, which is great. But to continue at 77 foot wide, you're going to have to buy some land. 02:07:40
You'd have to cut 17 feet extra on that road. Yeah. And then I I think we'd have to we'd have to look at the master plan. 02:07:47
Make that level investment like OK, I, I yeah. And that was, and you recall there was well, the whole reason there was the whole 02:07:55
recall issue is because some of the residents over there were afraid of that exact issue. And so anyway, I was just a. 02:08:03
One of the reasons I really don't want to follow up with that, see what what the tough part is. I mean, you go up to 77 the whole 02:08:11
way. I mean, it, it would be fairly expensive. We, I mean, you're taking out front yards and stuff. So we have to really look at 02:08:17
that and see if if it's, you know, using the master. 02:08:23
Transportation Plan. 02:08:31
So I think that that should tell us if it's if it's warranted or not, but. 02:08:33
This right here, I mean the improvements going to this development could, you know, really help the situation. Yeah, No, I, I 02:08:37
agree. I like the idea. I just, I just if we're not going to buy the extra property, we're going to to connect them is why we have 02:08:45
the why we make building the extra Rd. you know, capacity won't use I mean, I mean, if you can't get there from here. 02:08:52
To answer that question. 02:09:02
Right away that's the right way for descending 7th is that, you know, like I said, the developer is going to provide that. 02:09:05
To the city and then but and then the party development agreement would be up to a certain dollar amount of the city chooses to 02:09:13
only add 2 feet to the current Rd. I'm sure the developer with accommodate that build out to the full length. I'm sure that the 02:09:18
developer it's in the development agreement that the developer will accommodate that as well. Yeah, there's nothing about this 02:09:24
this development needs to change. I like what's happening there. I'm just talking about after that area ends that that strip there 02:09:30
that however long that strip is. 02:09:36
Yeah. And then that's all And I just if it's possible to make sure that gets on the, when you, I know you're doing a study next 02:09:42
year, can you make sure that that's high, high priority look at that in that study? Yeah. So again, that would be definitely an 02:09:48
area that we would have to consult and take a look at to see about the feasibility. Again, it comes out to be cost versus 02:09:54
operational and as well as other areas of the city. 02:10:00
If we make it too wide, it may be an attractive three-way to future projects farther out. 02:10:06
Oh, there you go. 02:10:15
Yeah. 02:10:18
Thanks, David. 02:10:20
Also something cool if if we have this with the bike lanes in the road and it's pulled away Rd. becomes a bike Blvd. then those 02:10:22
bike lanes I mean they'll end right there until all the way hold away Rd. which would be cool. 02:10:30
So I have one addition, the adding permit parking language. 02:10:40
To the overnight program. 02:10:47
Anything else? 02:10:50
No, so I just wanted to read real quick. 02:10:53
So, so in this just going back to the whole Zinfandel thing, it says the developer shall coordinate with the city and the 02:11:06
developer of the property adjacent to the property's northern border to stub a road connection to E Zinfandel Lane from the 02:11:13
project prior to the city's issuance of 103rd certificate. So I think we just need to define that better because it says that 02:11:19
they'll work with the city and the property owner to get it done before the 103rd. I think we just need to. 02:11:26
To clarify that that because if they're doing that, if they're. 02:11:35
If we don't want it to connect or they can't connect with with home center. 02:11:40
Then I mean, they're not abiding by the development agreement. So I think that we need to adjust that so that they are compliant 02:11:46
with that. 02:11:50
I'm trying to understand what you're asking. If you don't want it or want it because it was, there's only one place for that road. 02:11:57
OK, but there's only one place for it to go, so I don't even know why. That's not even my argument either. No, it's just that that 02:12:05
it needs to connect before the 103rd certificate is what it says in here. 02:12:10
And I'm just saying don't connect it until you're just done with the project. But we can't, we wouldn't do that for a lot of 02:12:16
reasons, because we have to put the park in which has to have parking and we're not going to come back and put in a stub Rd. after 02:12:22
we built part. So I mean, I kind of have to go in when that part goes in. I guess that part goes in when up to 103rd. That's why 02:12:28
we put it at the 103rd. So if you want to delay the park, I guess we could delay. So. So in that case, then I think we need to 02:12:34
make it clear. 02:12:40
We need that the road goes in, but we make it so that it is non accessible as far as like through traffic. Like we put a chain 02:12:46
across the road. So it wouldn't be unless the developer to the north did something. And what I'm saying is in this it says that 02:12:54
you'll work with the property owner of the north to connect it. And I'm saying get rid of that. So it doesn't say that. 02:13:02
All we can do is stuck to the property and the only location that can go is there, yes. So if I this is benefiting you guys, 02:13:09
that's why I'm saying. 02:13:14
They can meet their their requirement by simply stubbing it there. Yeah. The same is humanity. And she's over the infrastructure. 02:13:20
So he's getting, you know, depends on the timing. I mean, he can make sure that's it. Yeah. I think we just need to clarify that 02:13:26
in this, that they stab it to the edge of their property at the very least. 02:13:33
I mean. 02:13:42
Well, again I would like to speak the language as is. I mean to work with other developer, make sure that the designs are 02:13:45
coordinated and everything, all the lines are done. But again, what is going to be a public road and the city may choose to block 02:13:50
it as it wishes. 02:13:54
So I mean at the end of the day when the department, this developer builds the road and you know it's meets the requirements of 02:13:59
the city and stay accepted. 02:14:05
From that point forward, it's turned over to the city for the city's use of the city decides to close the road off 100% as long as 02:14:11
it's not affecting developers ability to move forward into the development. The city has sole control over that road. It doesn't 02:14:17
impact us. My only concern is is that. 02:14:23
You can't go through a field anyways and developer does. Either way, it doesn't matter to us. I'm just saying in the event that 02:14:56
the developer doesn't cooperate, there's no other option for us other than build a road where it's designed and shown. 02:15:01
And that that'll be up to the city to to there. We work really well with that developer. So we're not, you know, we want to have 02:15:08
coordination. I just didn't want there to be some kind of numbers like OK. 02:15:14
Yeah, OK. 02:15:23
No other questions or anything. 02:15:24
Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? 02:15:29
Motion to close the public hearing, Yes. 02:15:35
Second all in favor, aye. 02:15:37
Right, I have a motion. 02:15:40
Is there anything else you wanted to add Morgan or? 02:15:43
Yeah. 02:15:53
I guess I don't know how to work this motion. 02:16:02
So. 02:16:10
OK, correct. 02:16:33
I forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022-10, Holdaway Farms Development Agreement with the 02:16:36
condition that the. 02:16:42
Parking. 02:16:49
To clarify that it is the permitted parking for overnight parking. 02:16:54
And a second. 02:17:00
Sure. 02:17:03
Yes, for a second, second. This is a roll call. So Chris, aye, aye. 02:17:08
All right. 02:17:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish that was. 02:17:23
Moving on to Commission member report and staff report and expertise, discussion and disclosure. 02:17:31
I got nothing. 02:17:39
Nothing, Seth. 02:17:41
Yeah, nothing from from us. We'll, we'll, we'll have, we'll, we'll give you a good update probably in the next meeting. 02:17:44
Sounds good. Is is Jeff? Is he officially off the Commission? Yes. Yeah. So they will be. Yes. So the mayor is charged with making 02:17:51
the appointment and we will chat with her and see kind of what her her what how she wants to move forward with it. OK. And I know 02:17:58
we only have three members here tonight. Is there any discussion happening for. 02:18:05
Any replacement of yeah, well, like that's the mayor pick somebody new and then Tim and Anthony works yesterday are two 02:18:13
alternates. Yeah. So potentially on how she wants them. So how how the how the bylaws read is 3 consecutive meetings. And so this 02:18:22
this will be I think 4 meetings, but three. 02:18:30
Consecutive like, like actual beings, right? Yeah. Because we, we've had a special meeting and I don't know if we can count that 02:18:39
or not. 02:18:42
It's denies technically a special meeting, but anyway, I think I think we're past the threshold and so it'll be be up to the 02:18:46
mayor. We talked with her. I mean, we definitely our preference would be for people who are appointed to show up and you know, but 02:18:52
we're we're kind of at that point where we tonight, let's say if one of you got sick, then we'd have two major developments that 02:18:59
would not be able to move forward, You know, so this is this is a really real close one, I mean, like. 02:19:05
I mean I would have. 02:19:15
Gotten sick again. I would have zoomed in and at least you'd have that. Yeah, we can zoom. So when's our next scheduled meeting? 02:19:17
Yeah, seriously. 02:19:21
Our next scheduled meeting is in July, OK, July 6th, and we do have quite a few items for that meeting, OK. 02:19:27
So if that is everything. 02:19:34
Anything adjourned? 02:19:37
I have only one comment. 02:19:40
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Welcome everybody. It is June 22nd. 00:00:02
And it is 6:03 PM. 00:00:07
This is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We'll move right into an open session. If you have any public comments, feel 00:00:10
free to come to the. 00:00:14
Oh yeah, sorry, into the Chris is actually going to go Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:20
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:00:28
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:36
One day I'm I'm going to not forget something. 00:00:45
All right, so now we'll move into the open session. Thanks, David. If you have any public comments, now is your time. Just come to 00:00:49
the podium, state your name. Nothing new, no. 00:00:53
Cool. We'll move out of the open session into minutes for there are no minutes for review and approval. We'll just move right into 00:00:59
business items sign standard waiver. 00:01:04
OK, my name is Brian Amaya, City Planner. 00:01:15
The applicant X of elements seeking approval of two multi tenant monument signs and two single tenant monument signs. But we're 00:01:19
really here in terms of the science standard. We're only here to discuss the the two multi tenant monument signs because the two 00:01:25
single tenant monument signs can be approved administratively, but some of the characteristics of the. 00:01:31
Multi tenant monument signs require a sign standing waiver. 00:01:38
So in regards to that, the multi time the multi tenant signs exceed the already permitted height of 15 feet and include a Halo 00:01:42
effect on some of the lettering. A Halo effect on your standard type letters. The faces of the letters are not lit up at night. 00:01:48
Instead the lighting is directed behind the letters and is reflected back in a Halo effect. In other words, the Halo letters come 00:01:54
alive at night and give off an iridescent glow. When you create a Halo effect, you give your letters an enhanced 3D look in 00:02:00
addition. 00:02:06
Effects enhances letters makes them stand out from the signed background. The reason a sign standard waiver is needed for the Halo 00:02:12
effect letters is because they have the potential to have a greater impact on the surrounding development and on and on drivers on 00:02:19
the road do their ability to possess special lighting effects and their ability to be viewed at longer distances. But with this 00:02:25
application that's not really an issue because it's so subtle and the design is is not as impactful as as that. 00:02:32
So we don't, we don't really see an issue with the design that's being proposed. 00:02:40
There actually isn't is already an existing similar multi tenant sign at the yard A at the intersection of Mill Road and 600 N and 00:02:44
we've never that I'm aware of, we've never received a complaint about that sign so. 00:02:51
The Singleton Monument signs do not do not appear to have a Halo effect letter unless I'm wrong. Only the the multitimate the 00:03:00
multi tenant signs. 00:03:05
The quantity of the multi sentence signs is determined by the street frontage along public roads. The code allows master 00:03:12
development to 800 feet or more St. frontage to install one sign for every 400 feet of frontage. The applicants total frontage 00:03:20
measured is 3625 feet. The applicant has chosen to propose only two freestanding multi sentiment signs. 00:03:27
Which is well below their allowable limit in terms of the sign height. 00:03:36
You may choose to You may choose to allow them a sign height of up to 20 feet through a sign standard river, but the applicant is 00:03:42
only seeking the height approval of 18 feet and a maximum sign area of 80 feet, which the 80 feet is outrightly approved as well. 00:03:51
City staff recommends approval of the of the signed standard waiver and the Singleton Monument signs are well within their 00:04:01
allowable heightened sign area as well. So the applicants here, if you want to ask them any questions and we have all their plans. 00:04:08
That's if you have questions about like design or anything like that. What's the difference between a waiver and a variance? 00:04:14
So a waiver is we have some outlying criteria within the code that's already set in place to allow for, for example like height, 00:04:22
our outrightly permitted height limit is 15. The waiver allows you to go up to 20. In other conditions you can allow a greater 00:04:31
amount of quantity of signs, for example on building elevations. So those are kind of more set in place. We have specific. 00:04:40
Code references for variances as well. 00:04:49
But that has to do with other other things that I can pull up. Yeah, that variances are essay. I say like a state process that we 00:04:52
have to follow. And so there's five criteria and I, I don't know them all right at the back, but essentially it's for cases where 00:04:59
and I, I you have to meet all 5 criteria in order to be approved, but allows you to vary from the from the code in specific 00:05:07
instances. And like one of those, like I've only seen a few approved. One of them was because there was a lot line. 00:05:14
Or a, a fault line, sorry, a fault line that ran through a property in the foothills in Tottenham Heights where I worked. And it 00:05:22
was discovered when they, the property owner did it, their geotechnical report. And due to the 25 foot front set back, 25 foot 00:05:28
rear set back, 15 foot side setbacks, it gave them like a very small sliver to the building. So they were able to get a variance 00:05:34
on the front. So they were able to build like 5 feet. And so there there's like 5 criteria and, and one of them is basically if 00:05:40
you. 00:05:46
By the zoning ordinance as it's written, does it take away a substantial property right? And so being the being able to build your 00:05:52
house is a substantial property right and applying the the code in that instance, you know took that right away. So they they were 00:05:57
able to get in that case. 00:06:01
Did you have any questions? 00:06:08
Developer. 00:06:10
No, no. You guys have a motion. 00:06:12
Motion to approve as requested. 00:06:17
All right, yeah. So you can see. 00:06:21
And I just. 00:06:24
Read it back. Yeah, you just read the. 00:06:26
Proposed motion. 00:06:29
Yeah, it's on the screen there, if you can see it. We just have two conditions that mostly have to do with biting, like local and 00:06:32
federal laws and things like that and paying, paying fees. 00:06:38
Proposed. I guess the proposal as written that the applicant pay any outstanding fees and make any red line corrections and the 00:06:44
applicant is subject to all federal, state and local laws. 00:06:50
And then the proposed motion and then that proposed motion, I've moved to approve the sign application and sign standard waiver 00:06:56
application as requested by Eric Shinsato with all red electric sign and awning with the proposed conditions. And just that's 00:07:02
Allied Electric signs. Oh, sorry, Allied Electric sign, I'll second that. All in favour. 00:07:09
Moving on to public hearing, do I have a motion to open up a public hearing? I move to open the public hearing. I have a second. 00:07:18
Second all in favor, aye. 00:07:27
All right, we're in a public hearing. This is for the Geneva Rd. mixed-use zoning text amendment and zoning Map amendment as our 00:07:30
first item. 00:07:35
Great. Thank you, Chairman and Planning Commission. 00:07:45
Where sometimes we have all eight members and it's packed, other times we just have a few so. 00:07:49
But hey, we're still, we're still good to go. I appreciate you guys doing their duty and showing up and serving this community 00:07:55
because there's, there's a lot going on and we're only going to get busier and busier. The Geneva Rd. mixed-use district is a, is 00:08:02
a district that encompasses the, the Geneva retail frontage plat. If I think Bryce, you were here when that I was approved back in 00:08:10
my 2018, 2017. 00:08:17
I think you came on just kind of after that, maybe a year or so later, but that that was the the plat that took essentially 11 00:08:24
parcels and subdivided them as an essentially like a .9 to A1 acre. 00:08:31
Development pads of those one was built out that's O'reilly's on the South end and essentially what the applicant is looking for 00:08:41
is to incorporate auto, automotive services and automotive oriented type uses. 00:08:48
Within that district right now the RMU code is fairly restrictive when it comes to automotive uses. It does not permit for repair 00:08:56
sales, you know equipment rental. I know that those those kind of kinds of things and it was kind of contemplated with the 00:09:04
adjacency to the residential as you see here the Edgewater townhomes potentially there, there could be some conflicts if we just 00:09:11
allow those outright and this is when we did the full global. 00:09:19
Yours back in 2017 and so we didn't get down into the very specific details, but we did kind of look just generally at uses and so 00:09:26
some of those uses were taken away. Car washes were also made a conditional use in the RMU code. So the acronym to apply for a 00:09:34
zoning text amendment and for a zoning map amendment, the zoning text amendment would create the the GRMU code, the Geneva Rd. 00:09:41
mixed-use code and that would fall under our special zoning book. 00:09:49
That is really kind of a companion document to the zoning ordinance. It applies the district. 00:09:57
To the retail the Geneva Retail Frontage subdivision, another Watts, 2311. 00:10:03
And, and so last time we had asked that if O'reilly's were to be a part of that, that we needed an authorization letter and we 00:10:11
didn't receive one, but we did receive one for the Central Utah Water Conservancy District. And so that's the wow, that's like 00:10:18
right here. That's where they, yeah, just got split front to back. And so they agreed to be a part of it. Their conditional use 00:10:25
that was approved, I believe it was a year ago for the Bell site that is still in effect. And they, they are invested under. 00:10:32
Approval and they have done work and I think most of you know, they found that the water quality was was not sufficient and and 00:10:40
they're looking at ways to potentially upgrade the water quality of that site or you know, they the applicant is to talk about a 00:10:46
desire to incorporate that lot into into their development. So potentially you you could see that kind of that half acre be a part 00:10:53
of the overall. 00:10:59
Development that the applicants take it on ex development. 00:11:06
Term zonings RMU it's. 00:11:11
Project areas about 9 acres bounded by Florida N to the north, Geneva Road to the east O'Reilly out of parts of the South 00:11:13
Edgewater townhouse with us the shows the zoning that would be proposed GRMU on those on those lots general plan we provided kind 00:11:20
of an overall. 00:11:26
A list of kind of where we felt that it aligned with the general plan and it's pretty good. I mean anywhere from the economic 00:11:35
development, pieces of land use, transportation. 00:11:39
We feel like if this done right, it could provide really great services that would allow for people to walk. Additionally, you 00:11:45
know, with the amount of residential there, you got 500, basically 500 townhomes adjacent to site. That's a couple 1000 people. 00:11:52
Those are services that they they can walk to or drive too quickly and also employment. And so that's and that's that's something 00:11:58
that we are trying to be very target of. We found that one of the best ways to. 00:12:05
You know, to kind of assist with the overall transportation issues that we're seeing in the traffic is providing jobs and 00:12:12
residential close by in a way that. 00:12:16
You can easily connect to them either short driving or by walking or other means. 00:12:22
The GMU, it provides a mixture of commercial, office, residential uses along the Geneva Rd. You know, we talked about the 00:12:29
automotive uses and the code currently does not permit those. A new code would permit them. 00:12:36
And it would also it it would allow for light and heavy vehicle and equipment sales and rentals as a conditional use. 00:12:46
There was within a discrepancy and I think this was from our actual code and the zoning code. I I believe most likely Jason 00:12:55
probably took the the the standard code that we had and drop it in just so it was consistent. But we'll and I have that later list 00:13:02
that we will need to do a cleanup on, on one of those residential is captured at a 2350 units and that was increased last year 00:13:08
through the the RV. So the cap was met. 00:13:15
So that this this this code if it was approved it would be a new code. I would allow for a districtal residential units, multi 00:13:23
family and two family units are allowed. 00:13:28
The Commission expressed a desire that stand alone residents will be taken out. And so that would mean we would need to clarify on 00:13:34
the table that A2 family units are are not allowed because typically that's a duplex in most orientations. Those are standalone. 00:13:42
The three access point off Geneva Rd. access easements on the east and West side of the project area running South and north. 00:13:50
Our recommendation would be and the the plaque kind of contemplates this as well. 00:13:59
That that's a temporary easement on the east side. And if we do a mixed-use building kind of where that that lands, we want to see 00:14:04
the access easement pulled down. We don't want at least a parallel drive to the frontage of of a mixed-use building. We want that 00:14:10
pushed up as reasonably possible to, to to both streets to kind of mirror the, the mixed-use development that's going to happen on 00:14:16
the north side of Florida north. 00:14:22
There right now the residential density is at 26 units per acre. They can be increased through development agreement. 00:14:30
There's no women on non residential intensity. There's a good thing you want the site to build out with a lot of jobs. 00:14:37
And apply for economic development. They did try to address some of the high issues. It was 65 feet that dropped at 5 feet down to 00:14:43
60. 00:14:47
It's it is important with commercial if they do an office or eviction spilling that they do have kind of the space. 00:14:53
That where they they can get at least like a good quality four story building due to the, you know, the depth lot. They might not 00:15:01
be able to do that, but at least it would provide kind of the architect some flexibility as opposed going down to like a 45 foot. 00:15:07
But there there was some concern. I kind of what we're anticipating is most of it is going to be single story on the South side 00:15:15
and then on the north side I think it was mixed just built in. That's where you would see more of a high increase. 00:15:21
This shows kind of the OK, I'm so one of the things kind of that way we found with the with the setbacks is the setbacks of the 00:15:29
code are talking about pulling those from the easement line. We you know, we just want to stated that it's pulled from the 00:15:34
property line. That's that, that's where we the rest of our codes that we pull our our setbacks. And so that would be something we 00:15:40
would just want clarified. 00:15:45
Yeah. 00:15:54
So the easement on the east side is 30 feet on, then on the rear side here it is 35 feet. That's a utilities mat and that's a 00:15:56
access easement on the front side. 00:16:01
From utility. 00:16:07
But, and it seems like kind of discrepancy, there's another spot where it says 5 feet from Janice Geneva Rd. So that's why if we 00:16:11
just stay, it's from the, the property lines, you know, we're, we're OK with that. And really with this district, I mean, there's 00:16:17
not like it's actually a good thing to go up as as close to the street as we can. And so, you know, having a small set back 00:16:24
opportunity. Geneva Rd. even with the non mixed-use buildings, I think it provides more billable pads. 00:16:31
Ability this note here basically what that says that's a flat note is that the access season is contemplated to be a temporary 00:16:38
easement and that as each property builds out, they would then record an access easement across their property. It's supposed to 00:16:45
be a fluid easement. And so it depends if that's supposed to provide kind of generally the ability to to place your building pad 00:16:53
where it makes the most sense and then they would record an easement so so if you pulled up to the street then you know maybe. 00:17:00
Goes around, but you still need to provide for that easement for cars to to go from one month to to the other. 00:17:08
Yeah, there's no internal side setbacks and 20 feet from the street sides and then there's a rear set back that's 20 feet. 00:17:16
OK. So yeah, so this is these are all kind of the site plan elements of the code. 00:17:28
Well, what it indicates is the main structure on lot 11, the project area shall the design is that is comparable and compatible 00:17:35
with the structures of the north side of the 400 N. You know staff would like to see something that may be a little bit more 00:17:40
substantial. We're only talking about like a .9 acre lot and so you know, we have kind of contemplated going to to four bots to 00:17:46
provide a really sizable project. 00:17:51
But you know, we'd we'd like to see more than than than than one lot. 00:17:58
It calls out development plan throughout the code. That's something that is kind of carried on in the RMU code. This is where our 00:18:04
own zoning conflicts. So we do have in our zoning code where it allows for the Planning Commission to approve all site plans. The 00:18:10
RMU had some discrepancies with that. So we've always kind of give the benefit to the the developer. So we've always had the 00:18:16
Planning Commission even under the RMU approved site plans. So we would like to make sure that that. 00:18:22
Kind of stays consistent with this. 00:18:29
And so instead of having the City Council approve the site plans, the Planning Commission should be the board as our practice has 00:18:31
been to approve site plans and then also taking out kind of the language of development plan and replace that with site plan. 00:18:36
Yeah. I talked about connect interconnections with other projects we thought was really good. Residential projects shall have 50% 00:18:44
open space, recreational amenities, Our office space areas shall be on and maintained by the property owned association. So that 00:18:50
that's good, but I'm not really contemplating public parks, but there would be private open space with this area that would be 00:18:56
maintained by by the OR the association. 00:19:02
Detention Detention basins will not be counted towards open space. 00:19:09
However, and talking with engineer, we saw that it was important if they went to the, you know, the cost of putting an underground 00:19:13
system and, and many developers do that to utilize space more efficiently. That if, if it maintained the same quality of the open 00:19:19
space and the recreational, you know, amenities there that, that we could count that towards open space. But that would, that 00:19:25
would provide the same the, the discretion making sure that the system worked well and that also the, you know, the open space on 00:19:31
top was. 00:19:37
Usable. 00:19:43
I have parking to be told me by the city planner. We feel like it should follow the the city code, the the our parking ordinance. 00:19:46
There's a landscaping theme, which we thought was good. One thing that says the district states character will bring about a 00:19:52
familiar traditional setting for users while allowing for a diversity of building styles. That's not really specific. It's it's 00:19:57
kind of general. It does sort of align with some of our general plan language having like traditional billing styles, but I just 00:20:03
kind of pointed that out. 00:20:09
They'll emphasize the oriented towards Eva Rd. So like if you have a chromo building on 400 N that you would also want it to 00:20:15
Orient towards for the north 'cause you're going to have a mixed-use building on the north side of that. And so having kind of the 00:20:22
two, they don't necessarily have to match exactly, but having kind of a general urban design form that that that kind of matches, 00:20:28
you know, build his face or like entrances facing both. 00:20:34
Buildings are encouraged to include passive solar. 00:20:42
When so that using the words encouraged, it means that we can't require it, but it's kind of a farming whoever's building there in 00:20:46
the city would like to see that requires 30% glass and windows on the ground floor, 1 inches on the street side, but only one on 00:20:53
the corner lot. We'd like that up so that if there is a corner building on Geneva and 4 N that there is an entrance. I mean 1 can 00:21:01
be main entrance, but providing another entrance so that there's it. It has like an architectural connectivity with with with. 00:21:08
We felt was important. 00:21:16
Sorry there it's it's a it's a big it's important. So I mean, if you have any questions, feel free to stop. But there's other 00:21:19
architectural standards, you know, making sure that the there's not monotonous wild pains that they get broken on the counter, 00:21:25
equipment gets screened, buildings are designed with the base metal on top so that so that, you know, it kind of helps create that 00:21:30
the human scale thing. So if you think about just instead of having one really large glass building that's maybe four stories 00:21:36
tall, you would have like. 00:21:42
A distinction between the architectural planes that they would be, you need to be able to distinguish between them that that 00:21:48
actually helps kind of with the human scale portion of it. You're able to see the ground floor. 00:21:55
And then there's other things like encouraging architectural features, they call them 3D features on the on the building, Qantas 00:22:02
and stuff like that. If you know, if we're going to do that, that's one of those things that it should be a shallow. 00:22:10
You know, it shall be a shallow. I think something like that is better as a as a requirement, but then you provide kind of the 00:22:18
flexibility for the architect inside, what types of features that they incorporate into their into their building. And then it 00:22:24
calls that like building materials like sandstorm brick or base brick. Let's call that as as desirable. It tells about like 00:22:30
encouraging an iconic architectural. 00:22:37
Elements. So it's not necessarily something that's that's required, but it's encouraged. 00:22:44
And then lighting should be downcast and directed. We feel that's important that that we have something in there that it's 00:22:49
directed away from residential. They do have some language in there for architectural features and, and that's, and that's kind of 00:22:55
a cool thing. You'll see like some of these nice buildings where they use the lighting to really highlight different features of 00:23:02
it and, and provides a nice aesthetic at night. But we do need to be cognizant of other residences. 00:23:08
And so, you know, maybe there's an element we could allow for uplift elements, but we need to make sure that that's maybe on sides 00:23:15
not facing the the residential and that it's fully captured either within like an Eid system or, or, you know, an awning that it's 00:23:22
not just a light just to shoot it up because that you know, that that that could have impacted the the neighbors. Northern 4 lots 00:23:29
shall be accessed by a rear alley and placed up close to Team Rd. as feasible. 00:23:37
The parking area shall be shall not be permitted in the front yards of the lots. 00:23:44
Standards for auto oriented uses, there's a lot of these. Hopefully you guys have kind of gone through it. I'm sorry, that's like 00:23:50
I hate there's so much stuff, but there there are standards that help overall with the the impact to the to, to the residents as 00:23:57
well. I'll come. We'll kind of go through the car washers. I know there's there's some concern with that. The applicant has put a 00:24:04
step back for the, for the actual building of 50 feet. So that would be much more than the other buildings in the district. 00:24:10
They are limited to the southern 5 lots. Car washes are and vacuums. The vacuum shall be set back 25 feet. 00:24:18
They're, they're all of the lots required to have the landscape buffer of 10 feet, which we could provide trees and screening 00:24:26
elements. And then probably the most, most important thing is the hours of operation or when it's 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM, so you don't 00:24:31
have vacuums running at midnight. 00:24:37
Can I ask a question, I know we discussed last time a lot about the vacuum annoyance. Has there was there any other internal 00:24:44
discussion that came about of impact for that? And I know for the because it's the southern 5 lots where that can be. So the 00:24:51
Edgewater homes are I think 16 feet easement from from the property line. From the property line you're looking at 40 feet 00:24:57
distance between the vacuums and those homes. Yeah. 00:25:04
Yeah. And so I think Jason mentioned having some sound studies. And so when they do their presentation, I think that would be a 00:25:12
good thing for for them to discuss. That's also why we put the hours of operation in place. And then we could add some language to 00:25:18
require like trees within the the buffer landscape area and that that may help with some, you know, some of the sound blockage or 00:25:23
you know, whatever you want to call it. 00:25:29
And then there's some standards for the the light repair. 00:25:39
Limiting the the base to four, having the exit doors not facing the residential. 00:25:45
Things of that nature, a big one too. This is what I dealt with in Virginia when I worked there. No inoperable vehicles shall be 00:25:52
parked slash stored on site. It's important we say that at one city that the code was just very general and we had like 5 or 6 of 00:25:58
them that had just broken down cars all on the front end. It's you need, you need clear language and I think that's, that's fairly 00:26:04
clear for us to enforce. 00:26:10
Some of their other auto, auto oriented standards for drive-throughs, drive-throughs are going to have to meet the zoning code. So 00:26:18
we're we already do have that within our code I. 00:26:23
And there there was a limitation on on on Bayes as well. 00:26:30
Let's see if there's anything else. 00:26:37
Here are some of our proposed conditions should you choose to approve the, the, the ordinance tonight. And I'll, I'll read through 00:26:40
those and we can, we can talk about them as much as you'd like. So first of all, remove the redundancy and the use table regarding 00:26:47
vehicle and equipment repair. And so you can see just kind of on the right, we were just basically take, take that one out. I 00:26:54
think that was, that's something that's already in our RMU code. So we probably would need to do the same. 00:27:01
Or in the. 00:27:08
The district use table and the zoning codes, we probably needed to make that correction there as well, removing the east axis E 00:27:10
limit from mixed-use building lots on the north side. And that's one thing that the site plan process contemplates within the plat 00:27:17
is that you basically put the building where you need it, but you provide the access so that it makes sense so that they would 00:27:23
record a new access easement once they file their their site plan. 00:27:30
We have two family dwellings and clarify and use table that stand alone residential is not permitted. 00:27:38
Have actually measured from property lines and not easements. I understand kind of their, their, their overall intent, but I think 00:27:43
it, you know, I just want the language to be very consistent for the the zoning code just makes it harder to minister if it's we 00:27:47
have different standards. 00:27:52
And then to replace the. 00:27:58
The broader plan with side plan and Planning Commission to be authorized to for approval of site plan permits within the district. 00:28:00
City engineer may approve underground storm water facilities count towards open space requirements. The quality of open space 00:28:05
recreational amenities maintained 7 parking requirements in the zoning arts will be used. Remove city planner termination 00:28:09
language. 00:28:14
Building located on the corner of Florida North and Geneva Rd. should have entrance located facing both streets. Alighting shall 00:28:19
be fully contained within the project side, not spill onto residential property. What are you using? Obviously there's going to be 00:28:26
a little bit, but the photometric plants that really do help us look at the intensity. Typically those are those are put together 00:28:32
by a lighting engineer or you know a civil engineer that has like lighting design experience. 00:28:39
Let's see ten 3D architectural features shall be incorporated into all building elevations. So that's one thing that we've we've 00:28:48
kind of done as we've looked at these projects, making sure that our front facade you typically those are great, but that you 00:28:55
carry kind of the same and that's 11 similar architectural design and material shall be incorporated on all building elevations. 00:29:02
So you can go heavy on the front elevation, but as long as you're not having blank elevations on the back or just like. 00:29:09
Amassing with with no undulation, you know, I mean it, it could be downplayed and we could get into like specific standards if you 00:29:17
want. But overall, you know, if they're using some of the same material, there's brick on the ground floor, then, you know, you 00:29:23
pull that into some sort of orientation on the, the sides and, and the, and the back elevation so that you don't just get great 00:29:29
front facade and then everything else is just, you know, flat. 00:29:36
And then should you choose to approve it. 00:29:44
We provided a motion for the ordinance. Ordinance would approve both Geneva Rd. mixed-use District zoning text amendment and also 00:29:48
the zoning map amendment with the 11 conditions listed in the staff report, or if you choose to modify those or take them away, 00:29:54
add some, then we would just change that language a little bit. 00:30:00
And the applicant doesn't have a presentation. Thanks Morgan. 00:30:07
Yeah, you guys. 00:30:13
Make your presentation I suppose. 00:30:15
It is on all right and I have. 00:30:24
Some over copies with. 00:30:27
Red Line and the red line version of what we saw last night based on the conversation. So my name is Jason, Bold snow and warmer. 00:30:31
I'm here with X Development. Really grateful for the opportunity to be here. Really grateful for staff. Morgan and I think talked 00:30:38
several times today on the phone and lots of emails back and forth and not just today over the last couple weeks as well about 00:30:44
this code text amendment. 00:30:50
We are if you want to go to the next. 00:30:57
Slide. So talking about property, it's currently zoned as regional mixed-use. The proposal is to create a new zone and change the 00:31:01
map. This is the area we're going to identify. So the O'reilly's is not. When we came before you last time there was consideration 00:31:10
of including the O'reilly's given that it's developed project and. 00:31:18
Most likely will not meet the standards we are looking to adopt. It's probably best to not include it and create a a non 00:31:27
conforming non conforming building. 00:31:31
This is the plot and the next one we're going to outline. All right, so this really is the meat of why it is we're here. We are 00:31:37
asking for a new zone, in essence to allow car washes as a right. Car washes are currently a conditional use permit. 00:31:46
And to allow light automotive repair as a permitted use, that is what our ask is in exchange for that we are proposing. 00:31:57
To as Morgan went through that long list of design criteria, that's not required in the regional excuse zone as it currently sits. 00:32:10
So in exchange for in essence those two items, we are willing to adopt this new code, these new regulations. 00:32:20
To that would require development on this property really to be designed. 00:32:33
In a way that's that's thoughtful and that's meaningful. And as Morgan has mentioned, you know, this is an entry feature, an entry 00:32:39
property to the city and wanting to make sure that it's done right. And that's really our intent is identifying design standards 00:32:46
and development standards that that makes sense for this property. And so a lot of the things, quite honestly, I think almost 00:32:53
everything we talked about last time. 00:33:00
Has been incorporated. 00:33:08
We made changes to the proposed code. 00:33:09
You know, the stand alone residential uses, we heard that, you know, this is the commercial area of the regional mixed-use. That's 00:33:14
what the intent was. And so we've eliminated the ability to have a standalone residential use. 00:33:21
The design guidelines. 00:33:30
And then so I went through some of them, obviously not as in depth as as Morgan did, but you know with the building orientation, 00:33:33
the ground floor activation. 00:33:37
Architectural character. Meaningful design elements when it comes to commercial buildings. 00:33:43
And the requiring compatible and comparable uses, so or design not uses comparable compatible design. And I hear it's lot 3, it's 00:33:50
the northernmost lot. Depending on which document you look at, I think there's three or four different numbers that that lot 00:33:58
received. So the northernmost lot so that it does tie in with the mixed-use project across 400. 00:34:07
Connectivity isn't. It was expressed was very important. 00:34:16
And that's that's incorporated into the code to ensure that that happens. 00:34:20
Shared parking is also something that is contemplated and enabled. This code would enable a shared parking with adjacent 00:34:25
developments and then establishing specific U standards for car washes and light vehicle repair and drive through uses and one of 00:34:34
the things I want to talk about in regards to to those specific uses so. 00:34:42
Car Car washes currently are a conditional use permit in this this zone so. 00:34:51
You have an applicant that could come before you and say, hey, this is what we're proposing. We've mitigated all of the impacts 00:34:56
and it would be up to you to determine whether or not those impacts are actually mitigated. 00:35:04
And rather than going through that kind of the back and forth through the conditional use permit. 00:35:14
This is my personal opinion as somebody that's worked. Umm. 00:35:21
On that side in the public sector. 00:35:25
It's better to adopt specific standards that work as opposed to requiring conditional use permit and asking an applicant to 00:35:29
mitigate, to come up with their best way of mitigating those impacts. And so the mechanisms that we're proposing of of this 00:35:37
ordinance which adopt specific standards for those uses. 00:35:45
In our opinion it's it's a win win because from the developer side we know what the standards are. 00:35:54
And from the City side, you're adopting standards that's that work. And when I say that they work so the the car wash uses I 00:36:01
spent. 00:36:06
About two days going through a multitude of different. 00:36:13
Car wash permits throughout the West and looking at different noise studies and looking at different. 00:36:16
Requirements that were placed. 00:36:23
And the what we've what we're proposing is in most cases more than what was required, but definitely in line with with those other 00:36:27
with what other jurisdictions have required for car washes. So with that I don't know if you want to go through some of the 00:36:35
specific items that have that have changed or if you have questions. 00:36:43
You guys have any specific questions right now? 00:36:56
Not like this again. 00:36:59
Should I open it up for public to make any comments or questions that? Yeah, absolutely. And then once that's done, we can, if 00:37:02
there's comments, then we that'll give the then you want to provide the applicant the opportunity to respond to those so that we 00:37:08
can continue the discussion. Cool. Yeah, let's do that real quick. Yeah, if you don't mind. 00:37:14
Any of the members of the public have any questions or comments that they'd like to make regarding Item 5.1? What we've just done 00:37:19
over now is your time. 00:37:23
Just come up and state your name. 00:37:31
I'm Kirk Beecher with Central Utah Water. 00:37:38
So we own one lot in that proposed area there and the only question I had was there was discussion about the northern foremost 00:37:42
lots would provide drive through and parking and all that for those lots. 00:37:50
Are the four lots our lot and then the three others to the east and north of us, is that where you're talking about? So the, the 00:38:00
code that was proposed says 4 lots. How we've said it kind of been our our staff report is the four lots of the Geneva retail 00:38:09
frontage plot. And so that the new plot is the Geneva retail fund is flat B Yeah, Plat B. 00:38:17
And so that those four lots, that's what I'm asking, are those the four lots you're talking about? 00:38:26
I'm sorry, not the platter. So the ones I'm talking about are like we call out the the original platted, platted lodge. Those 00:38:33
don't exist any longer. That didn't amend the entire plot. So, so your bottom, your bottom lines are still existing. Yeah, but so 00:38:38
you're talking about only lots. 00:38:44
87. 00:38:52
65 and 4 then. 00:38:54
So that's probably there's a discrepancy under the code, it just says, it says 4 lots. And so if you guys want to clarify maybe 00:38:57
what what you mean by that portion amended the original plat to that right there, OK. And plat B is, is lots 12/13/14 and 15 and 00:39:05
lots 9/10/11 do not exist any longer. 00:39:14
OK. So which lots are you talking about on the floor? 00:39:22
So the ones that were contemplating are part of the original and so that's and so, so that's from from like a staff side when we 00:39:26
say those, the four we're talking about, about the original lots because that would be one beyond that. 00:39:34
I I know, I know, but there there is a plat. And so if you talk about the original plat, so they don't exist anymore. OK, So what, 00:39:44
what, what, what are you, what's what I'm asking are the four lots you're talking about. 00:39:51
Lots 12/13/14 and 15, so that are you talking about lots. So what staff is talking about is, is the the four lots that that are 00:39:58
shown in the amended plat and also those are the only four lots of Michelle and also and also lot 8 of the of the the original 00:40:06
plan. Can you pull up that map for me so that we can all be talking about the same 4 lots? 00:40:14
Including lot 8 will be difficult because. 00:40:23
Our loss will be totally fenced. There will not be access through our lot. 00:40:28
Along that West side, OK. 00:40:35
In which lot of ours is 13 on the amendment, it's the smaller of the of the two ones, the back one. 00:40:37
Our lot will be. It will not have public access. 00:40:45
Because it is a a public facility, it will be a well site, so it will not have public access. 00:40:48
We'll access it from the north. 00:40:58
From 400 N. 00:41:00
Along the along the 45 foot that's along that website. 00:41:03
Yes. Well, that's it from that east of there along the utility easement and then we have an additional 10 feet outside of that 35 00:41:08
foot utility easement as well. 00:41:12
So that's that's my question is what are you trying to say with that the four lives? 00:41:22
OK, I'm going to pull it up. 00:41:29
OK. 00:41:31
Yeah, and that's and and this is so, I mean, that's the sketch. So we'll need to provide some some clarifying language. So this 00:41:39
lot. 00:41:42
Is going to be fenced off totally, yeah. And so the language could be amended that. 00:41:46
The Ali would would either go around it. 00:41:54
So that it's not, it's not an impact on your side. That's my question. And so, yeah, so we could call out lot 13 of this plat as 00:41:57
you know having the the alleyway basically circumvent that lot, OK. 00:42:05
And that's, that's all I was asking. Yeah, that's it. It's just that because that is a a public water facility, it will not be 00:42:13
accessible to the public. Yeah. So that's why I need to make that clear. 00:42:19
We can't have a driveway through a public water facility. That would be bad. And I, I, I guess too there's there's there's been a 00:42:27
lot of questions as to whether or not you guys are are moving forward. OK, OK, OK. So we've yeah, we've heard, we've heard 00:42:33
different. So we're drilling the will we have revised the contract for the well. 00:42:40
Driller that was working, that's been working out there and he's drilling that well and then he's also going to drill the well 00:42:47
over by behind the elementary school. 00:42:50
So both wells are going to be drilled and we'll add them into our system. 00:42:54
Yeah, so. 00:42:58
Great. Does that make sense? It does. OK, good. Thank you for that. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. 00:43:00
All right. Any other public comments? 00:43:07
All right. 00:43:11
OK. And then you you'd want to close the public hearing, should we close it and then reopen it for the holdaway farms? 00:43:13
Development agreement. Those are those are two separate ones. Yeah. Yeah. So you would you would open the holy farms for that one. 00:43:21
So you would close it for for this work. All right. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close the public 00:43:26
hearing. 00:43:31
All in favor, aye. All right. 00:43:36
So if you guys don't have any questions right off the bat, I suppose I do. So you're saying with the with this development, the 00:43:41
two things that you're really wanting are the? 00:43:47
The car washes and the. 00:43:55
Light auto repair with the residential intensity. 00:43:59
Could we make it so that? 00:44:07
Any residential has to go through a development agreement and if so, can we also make it to be a specific percentage of the 00:44:10
retail? 00:44:13
What are your thoughts on something like that? 00:44:18
So is there any residential go through a DA? 00:44:23
And what was the second item? And that we have some kind of percentage. I don't know what that would be or something that's it 00:44:28
might be easier just because we don't we don't know how intense the site is is going to build out. Because if they do, if they do 00:44:34
like auto uses that, you know, like their, their numbers are going to are going to be different. So if it's like 25% or something 00:44:41
like that. 00:44:47
I think it might be easier to do just like a unit number, so you know whether it's like 100 or what, what whatever that is like if 00:44:54
you want to put a cap in it. 00:44:58
Or the development agreement, because they would come back through Planning Commission and City Council. So you could say that the 00:45:03
development agreement would determine the, the, the number of units. So if they went with four with the residential project, then 00:45:10
they, they could, you know, analyze the, the site and bring a number that that makes sense for that site and then bring it back. 00:45:17
And then you would have the opportunity to, you know, and, and I guess another shot at it if you wanted to do it that way. 00:45:23
Or you could cap it in the ordinance at 100 to be approved through a development agreement or whatever that that number is. 00:45:31
Because I, I just wanted to be clear in the development, like clear to any future planning commissioner and City Council, that the 00:45:37
only way we would really want any residential is if we're getting a massive. 00:45:43
Retail use. 00:45:51
Is there a way we can like? 00:45:55
Really substantial on a huge benefit to the city from a, you know, financial standpoint, even if we were to say no residential 00:46:28
development agreement could come in and add residential, could it not? 00:46:34
Or would this this would have to be amended either way? Yeah, you would want. So if if you pull out residential, you wouldn't be 00:46:41
able to just do a development agreement to add residential. You're like you would want your zoning to to to guide the the uses. 00:46:47
And so you would say, you know, residential is permitted through provision of a of a development agreement and the number of units 00:46:53
will be will will be determined by the the City Council. And so that that way it would allow the developer to put put together a 00:46:59
proposal that. 00:47:05
Makes sense. And then you would have the opportunity to look at it at that time, which might make more sense that the site would 00:47:11
be building out and then and then you could say you know like. 00:47:15
Like the yeah, I was still like you're under building the retail. We want to see more retail. I mean, you'd be able to kind of 00:47:21
negotiate it at that point as opposed to right now. It's just it's hard to know the level of intensity, Okay. 00:47:26
Yeah. So if I can. 00:47:32
Maybe under residential intensity, you know, we scratched the maximum residential density and we in essence modify or scratch the 00:47:35
that it may be increased instead out of condition that it specifies mixed-use residential because we've scratched the standalone. 00:47:44
So mixed-use residential may be permitted, it permitted through a development agreement. 00:47:52
Yeah. 00:48:00
Yeah. And then remove the, I think this is gonna be said, but yeah. And then remove the density, the 26 units per breaker, I would 00:48:02
just take that out. Yep. 00:48:05
Yeah, because it is. I agree with Morgan. It's difficult to judge that that intensity without knowing. I mean, there's lots of 00:48:10
different metrics and ways of doing it. And so it's better as well as timing because with your development agreement, you have the 00:48:17
opportunity to see what's there and what's being provided at that time. And you, you also, it puts you in a pretty strong position 00:48:24
because it's looked at a development agreement from a land use side, like when it's actually providing like land use. 00:48:30
Allowances. 00:48:38
At that point and you know, you'd have the ability to to control the project. So you don't get, you know, like residential 00:49:10
spilling all the way down to six spots or something like that. 00:49:15
And then? 00:49:25
So as far as right now I. 00:49:26
Then you guys had it as mixed-use in just the top lot essentially or? 00:49:30
Or rather that the. 00:49:37
How do I want to wear this that? 00:49:40
Buildings match what's on the northern part of the property you guys had for just the very northernmost lot. 00:49:42
Is that something that can be moved It Morgan was saying in for the comments from staff that they want to see four lots. Obviously 00:49:51
with Central Utah water that might be not possible. Yeah, we we would need to call out out the lots if I mean we you could say 00:50:00
1514 and 12 of this flat and then lot 8 of the of the original plat if you wanted like like kind of those four or whatever. 00:50:10
The number is I mean that that's where I think maybe here for the applicant has to like what they would be willing to do 00:50:20
beautiful. 00:50:24
So you're talking about the the design? 00:50:29
Being similar. 00:50:34
Yeah. So the design elements fading a little bit more into other property instead of just being the 1.9 acre lot going into two, 00:50:35
but up to four lots. Yeah. And I mean and as it's written, it does, it's not like one of them would be. 00:50:44
Look completely different than all the others 'cause it does require consistency throughout, but that I think that's something 00:50:54
that I mean that the Northern we'd identify those lots have. 00:51:01
Design similar to the mixtures building across the street is that. 00:51:09
Up to four lots being mixed-use, whether that's retail and office or retail or the actual requirement that it is mixed-use. Yeah. 00:51:17
And so Worry and I, we've had conversations about it and I think. 00:51:24
That is, that's a concern. 00:51:32
We're I'm not aware of any zoning codes that requires a specific use for a specific property and so. 00:51:35
But I, I don't to limit the, the options and say you have to do this. We think is, is a little more of a ask than what we think. 00:51:46
But you know, what we're proposing is much more than what you have now in essence with the design guidelines. And so to push that 00:51:55
further and say, well, not only does it have to look this way, but it has to be this use. 00:52:03
I don't think we're comfortable. 00:52:13
To give that up at this point, OK. 00:52:17
OK. If that's, I mean if that makes sense. Yeah, Yeah, I understand. Well, I guess the concern is getting, you know, I mean if we 00:52:20
take out standalone residential and and they did a residential project there, then that would push it into a mixed-use category, 00:52:27
you know, just because you can't do standalone. 00:52:33
I, I don't know, I mean, it's, it's, it's something that like we've, we've talked about quite, quite a bit. I think that was kind 00:52:41
of like the overall like vision of what the city when we looked at the side is having something compatible with the, the, the, 00:52:48
that northern project. And that's a much larger project than you know, when you're just looking at like 1 lot. 00:52:54
I, I, I don't know if, if that really does it, but you know, if the form, I mean that we're really talking about like the urban 00:53:02
form, then maybe the specific use. And if you take away the standalone residential, then you may get like that mixed-use filling 00:53:08
anyway. Or if you got a large office building that had a decent urban form that was similar to across the street that that that 00:53:15
probably gets us there. I mean, I would think that's that that's kind of the. 00:53:21
I would say like, like the goal of the city. 00:53:29
Is to have just a good urban form so that that functions like a like a nice gateway as you come in, you have stuff that kind of 00:53:31
same multiple size, yeah. 00:53:35
Yeah. And I mean, I think we've taken that to heart with the design guidelines that we've incorporated. The intent is to bring it 00:53:39
as close to Geneva Rd. you know, and that's one of the things that we're going to talk about with the. I think on the that front 00:53:45
set back, we're OK eliminating the set back from that access easement and just utilizing the front property line. We just included 00:53:51
it because we recognize it exists on the plat. 00:53:57
But the you know, the five foot set back in essence to be able to utilize and push those buildings. 00:54:04
As close to Geneva road to provide that that gateway feature on both sides of of 400 N is is the intent. 00:54:10
OK. You guys have any questions? 00:54:21
I'm still concerned just about the vacuums and 40 feet. I was reading a. 00:54:25
Some BYU professors put out stuff on the wiki watch specifically at one where they measured the volume and the nuisance it created 00:54:32
and the distance from the neighbors. They calculated topic of a wall in here that that you would need a wall doesn't do much. They 00:54:38
said, you know, 100 foot, 12 foot cement wall, you're going to lower decibels by like 3 or 4 decibels. So I just want to make 00:54:44
sure, you know, we acknowledge if it's 40 feet. 00:54:50
What it's going to be, I do think it's gonna be a nuisance for people that are living there. And I think in Edgewater some of 00:54:57
those are rentals investments, but I think some are individually owned as well. A lot of us do own those units we do live in own 00:55:05
them yeah as well. One of the the things that's important to note about that Wiggy Wash and Orem is the way the building was 00:55:12
already on it and the exit cause the exit with the dryers are what's facing the residential and that's where. 00:55:20
The noise comes from the, the noise on the entrance side is half to 1/3 than what it is on the exit side with the dryers and with 00:55:27
the blowers. And so that's one of the things that we're incorporating and making sure that it's not exiting towards the 00:55:34
residential units, it's exiting towards Geneva Road. And we've proposed that you know they at least 25 feet and I mean we're, we 00:55:41
can increase that. 00:55:48
To 35 feet. 00:55:56
If that would make you more comfortable to make sure that those the vacuums are pushed away. Morgan also had mentioned that 00:55:59
landscaping. 00:56:03
Buffer that 10 foot. I think it's. 00:56:08
I agree and I think it's appropriate that as one of the conditions or that is one of the standards we identify what kind of 00:56:12
landscaping goes in that that buffer that's you know trees and shrubs. It's not grass and flowers that don't. 00:56:21
Have an impact on the South yeah, I don't think I mean if 100 foot 12 foot wall won't decrease out I don't think we can expect it 00:56:31
yeah the difference between like. 00:56:36
Trees and chubbery it that they absorb sound where the wall will bounce sound around and sometimes that creates more an extra 00:56:44
sound. It is terrible. So if we can't, I don't know, I'd love to see. 00:56:52
I'd love to see what. 00:57:01
Would mitigate the sound by enough decibels that. 00:57:05
When we're outside of our homes, we don't. 00:57:11
Like we, we barely know there's car wash behind there, you know, it'll be hard to go from empty lots to very, very loud. 00:57:15
Yeah, I don't. I did not. I don't have them with me. I apologize because I thought about that on the way down. I should have 00:57:26
grabbed those. 00:57:30
What's the decibel ordinance? Is it very clear hours? It is, it's yeah, it's depends on the hours. So obviously like late at 00:57:34
night, it's it's much lower and that's, and that's one thing where the code does help out. They've, you know, after 9:00 PM it it 00:57:40
drops off. 00:57:46
But it's measured at the property lines here. 00:57:54
Sorry if this board is everybody. 00:58:02
So I think the other thing. 00:58:08
So 65 decibels during during the daytime. 00:58:10
And that and that's and that and that's measured at the property line. Yeah, our sound, our noise awareness was put in place when 00:58:14
we were in just an agricultural community. So we actually might need to update that, that a little bit, but it's 65 at the and 00:58:19
that's measured at the property line. 00:58:25
And we have a noise meter. I mean, we could drive around and. 00:58:33
The hours in it as well, yeah, that says to 10:30 PM, is that right? Yeah, 7:00 AM to 10:30 PM So their code actually brings it, 00:58:37
brings it earlier an hour and a half. 00:58:43
Right. 00:58:49
That's for operation, but the noise. 00:58:51
Yeah, I like that inclusion. I guess I'm just wondering. 00:59:25
Like you will want it to be a lower decibel at the property line by the residentials. 00:59:30
And it's probably established what that is as well during hours of use and not just during quiet hours. 00:59:37
If that makes sense. 00:59:45
Because everyone gets home between like four and then we're all generally outside. 00:59:47
Until 7:00 or 8:00 and we gotta hear each other talking, then I don't know. It's not a very good community feeling. 00:59:55
Do you know specifically what law you're looking at? Yeah, I mean, I think no, to answer your question, no. And that's one of the 01:00:09
things that were we've kind of talked to staff and went through these things where we're talking about the zoning code as opposed 01:00:14
to a specific site plan. And so it's kind of. 01:00:19
You know, chicken and egg. As far as identifying specific uses, again, what kind of back that specific uses on specific lots? 01:00:25
And I will kind of point out, and Jason mentioned this before, right now it's a conditional use under the RMU. And so this 01:00:34
actually provides standards at what we don't have now. So it increases those standards, our conditional use permit, it would allow 01:00:41
us to add conditions to help mitigate, you know, potential impacts. But the strongest, most enforceable standards you can have the 01:00:49
ones that are written in the code. So if we put one in there and said must have a, you know, a 200 foot set back. 01:00:56
You know, during the instrument they could say, well, that's, that's impossible, that's, that's, that's unreasonable and we 01:01:04
probably wouldn't lose that. And so, so in a way like this actually provides us some, some some good standards that, and then if 01:01:09
we pushed it back 35 feet and maybe added trees. 01:01:14
That might not get us 100% there, but I, I think that's getting this kind of where where we're looking. What about hours of 01:01:20
operation? I mean, is, is 9, is 9:00 the, is that their standard, the for the user you guys are working with? That's my 01:01:25
understanding, yeah. 01:01:30
Instead of the standard. 01:01:36
Yeah. And I don't think that's year round or all the time, but that is they do utilize that. What about Sundays because I I mean 01:01:39
is, would it be closed on Sunday? 01:01:45
I personally am comfortable. 01:01:56
With allowing car washes as long as we have very strict. 01:01:58
Measurement of decibel at property line towards residential. Does that make sense? So I. 01:02:04
Yeah, the vacuums. 01:02:13
Sure, yeah. 01:02:18
So when you're talking about the decibels, are you the measured decibels while operating? We need to decide what is okay. 01:02:20
When it like it. 01:02:31
At the property line where it hits residential. So if we can determine. 01:02:34
A something that works for you know that is reasonable. 01:02:41
It is a car wash but also is comfortable for people living there. 01:02:46
But if we can both win, that's where I want to hit. Yeah. More. What was the noise or this language again? Sorry. It's 65 decibels 01:02:52
and that's a it's a weighted decibels measurement. So I'm not sure what that means, but 65, that's what we have a sound meter. So 01:02:59
we were just look at it during the day or is that. 01:03:05
7:00 AM to 10:30 PM and that's 65 decibels currently. 01:03:13
Normal conversation. 01:03:21
Yeah. So I mean that's the existing standard. OK. So nuisance ordinance, that was what I was wondering if that was just quiet 01:03:24
hours or regular time. OK, Yeah. I mean kind of the tough things too is if you if you do allow a car wash, I mean, obviously, I 01:03:30
mean, I think that's a sustained noise volume, right? Isn't that like that? So you know, you might have as you were talking, you 01:03:36
know. 01:03:43
A kid might scream and so you're going to shoot up, but it's talking about like on your average sustained decibels. 01:03:50
And and reality, there may be times where the vacuum is gonna gonna go over because if you feel, if you look up looks like you're 01:03:57
saying it's like a normal conversation, maybe you're talking. 01:04:01
You know, a little exaggerated or something, but it's not, it's not like screaming, but like it's like a general. 01:04:07
Does that's fine. 01:04:17
Yeah, if we wanted to so. 01:04:20
I mean, that's, that's kind of up to the Commission. If you if you wanted to see the the noise studies, then that that would 01:04:23
require continuing it to have to, to get kind of that, that data from the from the applicant unless you feel comfortable with 01:04:29
maybe a condition or something like that. 01:04:35
So I'm not sure really how to happen. 01:04:43
Is that something you guys want to see is some kind of studies showing what there is? There are a lot of conditions, more than I 01:04:46
think we've seen in something in ever maybe I think I've ever seen. Personally, I'd be fine continuing it just because I would 01:04:51
like to see the conditions that you have. 01:04:57
Made made as changes into the code. 01:05:04
If if I can propose you know that as part of that permitted use a sound study. 01:05:09
Is provided. 01:05:18
To show that it meets the the noise ordinance requirements. Yeah. 01:05:20
I like that a lot. 01:05:25
Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to get permits. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good condition. So. 01:05:32
And they say how do we craft that? So with the other conditions, the things that you have planned like when you file for site plan 01:05:39
A, a noise study. 01:05:44
From the proper property line is provided showing what the what the dust that. 01:05:49
What the decibels will be and that it shall meet the noise ordinance of the city. Do you do you think Jason, from what you've seen 01:05:54
that at. 01:06:00
A 35 foot set back at the property line you'd be able to meet the 65. 01:06:06
Decibel, I don't want to put you in a position where you're like guaranteed to lose on this, but I just want I I'm not an agnoise 01:06:12
engineer, it's our sound engineer. I have no idea. From what I've seen in the studies I've seen the the noise issue does not come 01:06:19
from the entrance side, it's the exit side and so the blowers. 01:06:26
And so, I mean, yeah, I think. 01:06:34
But that's something that's. 01:06:38
Can be obtained yeah. And if for some reason it goes over then that even though it's just a permitted use site plan they had they 01:06:41
would have to meet that. And so that that would mean if they need to add more trees, if they need to scoot the the vacuums back, I 01:06:49
mean basically that condition would would say they they would have to meet that that, that requirement no matter what they have to 01:06:56
meet the code. You know I, I personally would be comfortable with that, but they they would have to have like a sound engineer. 01:07:03
Make a submission, I'm sure a car wash, if there are, you know, a large car wash that and they've done that a million times. I'm 01:07:11
sure that's a requirement in a lot of communities, right? Yeah. I mean, if they do their due diligence, we see the data and that 01:07:17
all tracks, I'm comfortable with that being added as a permitted use. Yeah. And then it kind of depends. I mean, they have the 01:07:24
blowers and the vacuums themselves don't make a lot of noise. It's just. 01:07:30
Where they have their compressors, where they have their. 01:07:37
The actual vacuums, not the hoses and stuff, but the actual vacuums. But things like that need to be enclosed I think. 01:07:41
Can I make a comment Eric? Eric with X Development as the applicant. Eric Towner. I think we need to remember these homes are 200 01:07:49
feet away from Geneva Rd. with 18 wheel semi trucks on what's going to be a 7 lane highway planned by U dot. 01:07:56
Currently we have a conditional use allowed here permitted that would be a lot less stringent than what we're proposing today. I 01:08:06
don't see a need to add anything above and beyond your current city code where you have noise ordinances already in place. To tie 01:08:12
it to a development zoning code makes no sense to me whatsoever. 01:08:17
For a myriad of reasons, finance ability, leaseability, actually getting a project out of the ground. The more you guys like to 01:08:25
tie these things that make sense, I understand in this room. 01:08:30
It doesn't make sense outside of this room being next to Geneva Rd. I think would be something to contemplate and really think 01:08:35
about. We're next to A7 lane highway. What what you does planned here? 01:08:41
And what we are requiring is mostly the biggest, the biggest issue I've seen with car washes is the orientation of the dryers. I, 01:08:49
I don't think it makes sense to put those dryers towards the residents. And so that's why we've required it to go towards Geneva 01:08:54
Rd. Even though that might not be optimal for the site plan for the actual operator, I think that's better for the residents and 01:09:00
we can tie that today. Yeah. And that and my, my experience. So we did Platinum car Wash and Cotton Heights. I think I was now on 01:09:05
Mr. Car Wash. 01:09:11
They oriented their blowers away from the, the the residential uses because we have another one that had them like facing them and 01:09:17
it, it does, it does help. And so I, I didn't go out there with the noise beater, but that, that was the. 01:09:23
Like the most down generated can came from the blowers exiting. And so that does help substantially. But so how we have it written 01:09:30
is I know a study must be provided during the site plan submission that meets the noise ordinance. And so that that would then 01:09:36
give you the opportunity to, you know, they'd have to get a sound engineer or civil engineer that has, you know, experience with 01:09:42
those types of studies and submit as far as their package so. 01:09:48
For me personally, with the with the with that requiring the sound stuff. 01:09:55
Personally, I think it's kind of overkill because if they don't meet the ordinance. 01:10:01
And they're not complying with the city code, then they're going to have to go back and restructure stuff, which is a huge pain in 01:10:06
the **** I'm sure. So personally, I don't, I don't think it's necessary because it's going to cost them a lot more money to fix 01:10:12
something that they haven't done right in the 1st place. But. 01:10:18
Whatever you guys say. 01:10:26
Citizens to file complaints and go through that whole process of nuisance and then. 01:10:30
Possibly. 01:10:36
That we acquired a current enabled initiatives. 01:10:38
I think we should, we could require the vacuum to be at least 50 feet, the vacuum enclosure 50 feet. I think that I mean that's 01:10:41
double what I think was proposed in here originally because the sound, the sound orienting towards Geneva Rd. we've already 01:10:47
mitigated as well as we could that noise, right. So let's push the vacuums as far, you know, make a minimum of 50 foot distance on 01:10:53
the vacuum and then. 01:10:59
The doctor's father had not been assigned to study. 01:11:06
In which I'm not comfortable with doing any type of requirements above and beyond what we're currently allowed and and invested 01:11:11
with our rights with the zoning we're in today. Why would I rezone the project to something that's more stringent than I already 01:11:18
have today? I don't think it's necessary to do that. So I would say, let's, let's put design guideline requirements in here and 01:11:24
let's put orientation requirements. So move the vacuums with that requirement in today as a part of the code. 01:11:31
At no closer than 50 feet from the property line, let's require the orientation of the dryer to be pushed towards. 01:11:39
Towards Geneva Rd. I think those are some some winds that we can get out of this and on. 01:11:45
Well, and here's the other thing too. The the site planning code does allow for you to require. 01:11:54
Things to to demonstrate that, that they meet the code. So if you had a if you had a substantial, you know, concern about it, 01:12:02
that's something once they they came to you, you could say, you know, we would like a a noise study that shows that that you mean 01:12:07
the, the noise code or you could require it out front. I mean, it's it, it, it is that I mean, it ultimately is the City Council. 01:12:13
But I mean, if it's up to, you know, how you, you, you craft a recommendation. 01:12:19
Like post post development, getting the sound study done. 01:12:25
To, you know, see if it. 01:12:32
Is where it should be. 01:12:34
Is that it's difficult to get that done as if there's a speed study. 01:12:36
Here's the hard thing is once the development is operational and and going forward. 01:12:41
You know, like they're set in place, they have an approved site plan. Then typically you're gonna be dealing through code 01:12:48
enforcement. Yeah. And and it, it, it could get ugly. I mean, if you're, if you're showing like 90 decibels at the property of 01:12:54
mine on a continual basis sustained, then it's gonna be up to the city on on how they they want to enforce enforce it or, or not 01:13:00
enforce it. So. 01:13:06
You know, I it's always harder after the fact when something's been built to then try to come in and and enforce code, especially 01:13:13
on something we have infrastructure in place. 01:13:17
Yeah. 01:13:22
Is can we point something out to Brian? Did a search on on a car on a on a major car wash and it's showing closure at 8 PM, 7:30 01:13:24
AM to 8:00 PM and then on Sunday closing at 6:00 PM. And it actually seems pretty consistent with with most of the car washes in 01:13:32
the area. So I don't know if they would follow the same thing, but potentially. 01:13:41
It looks like the industry average might might even be closing early earlier, OK. 01:13:51
Having them comment on that. 01:13:57
Is a sound study something you guys is requiring a sound study something you guys have seen? It depends on the city. And like I 01:13:59
know Paradise Valley, that's a resort town. They have a lot of resorts and they have like a little outside concert venues within, 01:14:05
within some of their, their resorts. So the surrounding residents are very concerned about about noise. So they'll, they'll, 01:14:11
they'll require a noise study from a, you know, sound engineer. 01:14:18
So I mean, it's not, I don't know, maybe Park City and it's typically when you get in kind of like the resorting time communities 01:14:25
where. 01:14:28
It's someone's second home and they're on vacation and like they, they get a lot more concerned about that stuff. But I, I listen 01:14:32
to our valley. I haven't, I haven't heard of, of any, you know, we, we deal in code enforcement. So we, we tend to hear about the 01:14:40
more common stuff and noise at least like requiring like sound studies and those things. I haven't, I haven't heard of one here, 01:14:47
but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. So the, the wiki watch study in Oreo that's right here in the backyard. 01:14:54
Which is something far below, Yeah. But we know the complaints though that they were getting about that too. 01:15:03
Yeah, based off of that and I think they're about one day 53. 01:15:11
Just again, that wiggy wash is exiting towards the residential units. I think a better comparison would be the quick Lac by 01:15:18
Costco. And now they have the dryers facing the gas station and Costco. 01:15:25
And then the vacuums are right next to it. 01:15:32
Yeah. So I mean I. 01:15:39
It seems like like Eric mentioned that they would even push it and right now they're showing 25 feet, They're proposing 50 feet. I 01:15:40
mean that that seems pretty decent. I mean, you could, I mean, ultimately it is up to the plank Commission on your recommendation. 01:15:47
If you want to keep a noise study in there, you can so. 01:15:54
Yeah. 01:16:05
And it can't go into use. 01:16:10
Into a little that sound level verified yeah, I think I'm so I mean that that's a pretty good idea. I know from our our billion 01:16:13
official he says from a legal standpoint, it gets it starts to get more difficult holding up an occupancy. So if you let someone 01:16:19
go all the way to an occupancy and we've done it a few times with like number of units. 01:16:25
You know, like like in the totally farms, you know, there's like, like maybe we're requiring certain parks to come online before a 01:16:32
certain number of of units get get occupied. That, that that's really easier. But if it's something where it like they would have 01:16:38
to redesign the entire site, I, I'd be a little cautious. That's something I'd probably want to get a, an opinion from our, our 01:16:44
legal counsel. 01:16:50
Plus also with something like that if they were to build it then being next to Geneva Rd. like a highway Highway. According to 01:16:56
this highway noise is 70 to 80 decibels from 50 feet. 01:17:02
So even if they were to build their building and there was highway noise going on in the background, the highway noise might be. 01:17:07
Yeah, but the buildings are blocking a lot of the highway noise. Yeah, but I'm just saying that it would make it difficult to have 01:17:12
like. 01:17:17
I don't know. I if the landscape area has some solid tree, some solid Bush going on. It's like really like sucking in that noise 01:17:24
in the leaves like it should. And it's not just spray, but like it's at there and it's not just concrete noise bouncing around and 01:17:31
being louder. 01:17:38
That's already. 01:17:46
That's already huge and with the vacuums so far away with the blower spacing. Geneva. 01:17:48
And I know the things we've added tonight, the things that we are being presented, I like these conditions. 01:18:00
I feel OK about them. I don't feel like my neighbors are going to come and get me. 01:18:08
With the amended and see what we have in front of us. 01:18:15
I don't. I think that there are other. 01:18:23
I want it, I don't know. 01:18:32
That it's. 01:18:34
It might be too big of an *** if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? Because it's it's a lot. 01:18:39
I mean, I think it would be expected that it'd be 35 feet if it was that. Or did you think it's fifty? Yeah, I mean 50 feet four. 01:18:50
And I think Bryce had mentioned Lutheran clothes. And so the vacuum enclosure would be 50 feet. 01:18:57
Away. I think we could get a lot of nuisance complaints from it, but I think we want development there as well. So yeah. 01:19:05
We're aware to get the process that, yeah. 01:19:13
And just real quick, I guess with the enclosures, how are they oriented? 01:19:17
It's very closed. I don't know how you're how they're planning on being closed or how that yeah, I think typically, I mean it's a 01:19:22
four wall solid structure that's I mean and there may even be some sound insulation. 01:19:28
Like pull into a building and we're talking where the vacuums are, the vacuum, the the parking stalls would be open and then the 01:19:35
vacuum enclosure sits separately. Oh, like the vacuum itself? Yes. OK. And is it just like the hose that sticks out? So you're 01:19:41
you're a kid. 01:19:47
Are these vacuum ones that you have to like activate or like when you pull it off? Like wherever the they turn on as soon as you 01:19:55
grab it? 01:19:59
When you guys are talking about vacuums, are you talking about the nozzles of the vacuums or the vacuum itself? 01:20:06
OK. But you guys are you guys when it's 50 feet? What are you talking about? The nozzles like that, the hoses, Yeah. 01:20:15
Yeah, I mean, it's 50 feet and enclosed. So it's enclosed, Yeah, if it's enclosed, you probably won't hear it at all, even if it 01:20:27
was 10 feet away from the ambulance. 01:20:32
But you didn't have any concerns about the nozzles or anything? Just really, I guess you bring that up. I was imagining it was 01:20:38
all. 01:20:41
And headline. So usually they do like one or two big vacuum units and then connect it through piping to the bays, the parking bays 01:20:45
and then you have the nozzles at each of the bays. So the the wiggy wash study, they based it off of the phase volume, but it was 01:20:53
still 53 and so 50 feet away for basically off of the day volume, which we similar to 2nd wise. 01:21:01
Ordinance so. 01:21:09
OK. How far, just out of curiosity, how far away are the bays themselves? Is there, is that written anywhere? Again, we're talking 01:21:12
site design stuff that Yeah, yeah, we're talking. We're trying to figure out the framework where we can do the site design and so. 01:21:19
OK, cool. OK. So noise study removing that. 01:21:27
Keeping it, I think we can and remove that personally. 01:21:34
So there's the. 01:21:40
We're modifying the vacuum distance to 50 feet and for the enclosure and it's enclosed and then so that was that the only addition 01:21:45
here for the car wash, the landscaping. 01:21:52
Yeah, yeah, the trees, yeah, they need to be actual plants that absorb noise. 01:22:05
OK, and we can add, I can work and modify the code. We can modify and make sure that. 01:22:11
The right terminology of species and. 01:22:19
Science Intensity. 01:22:23
Is that something you're comfortable this morning? Yeah, and and the landscaping plan would come back. 01:22:26
For site plan through the through the Planning Commission, yes. So you'd be able to see that too. So let me think. 01:22:31
OK, that's why I wasn't quite worried about landscaping yet. 01:22:39
It's time for you, right the 10. 01:22:45
I. 01:22:51
Just give me a second to take this out. 01:22:58
So, are you updating your condition? Excellent. 01:23:01
I can't see it though, my eyes are terrible. 01:23:04
As far as the other conditions that Morgan ever had, you guys are finding, yeah, I mean, I want to just look at the list one more 01:23:10
time, but I think we're fairly comfortable, although I do have another one. We probably want to make Public Utilities and public 01:23:18
facilities of permitted use. 01:23:26
Just because you have the century, because the water, Yeah, I think there are conditional use right now Like they they they went 01:23:37
through a conditional use permit. 01:23:41
So I would just, I would just keep it, yeah. 01:23:46
We've approved all this trying to make it easy for you. 01:23:52
A tenfold landscape buffer with trees and vegetation for the purposes of mitigating noise shall be provided adjacent to the 01:24:01
residential property lines. 01:24:05
For car wash uses. 01:24:13
Lots of they're talking about it, they they want to increase it, they could. 01:24:23
Yeah, that's the bottom line. A10 foot landscape buffer with trees and vegetation purposes mitigating noise shall be provided 01:24:34
adjacent to the residential property lines for car wash issues. 01:24:38
I'm hearing from the. 01:24:52
Audience that there's a pipeline under underneath there on the landscape buffer adjacent to the property line. 01:24:55
At 35 feet, is that what it is? Water and sewer? 01:25:02
That's what that 35 feet is for. 01:25:09
How, how? How was the easement language? 01:25:17
Like does it, does it have certain types of vegetation that's that's restricted? 01:25:22
Yeah, yeah. So there's, there's going to be some types of restrictions I think adjacent to the the wall there, but there's going 01:25:29
to be certain route restrictions. 01:25:34
A general landscaping, I think that we could definitely find some shrubs and some trees that will that will. 01:25:41
Be approved by the city for sure. 01:25:47
Where? Where exactly? 01:25:51
Inside of that 35 feet, we've got your storm water sewer. 01:25:55
Gas and power, yeah, inside that 35 feet. 01:26:02
Sullivan is there are the trees located in the O'reilly's lot. 01:26:05
Down in the back. 01:26:10
But I mean, landscape screening, I believe we're able to put Trello so fine. I, I think there's plenty of options we have, I think 01:26:17
with within. 01:26:22
Yeah, I'm just trying to think how to write this. Then. I mean, you could do so if you have 50 feet, you're going to have some 01:26:30
room. There's obviously you're going to have driveways and whatnot. Parking, however it's set up, we're not looking at the site 01:26:36
plan. It's hard to know. Would you be able to provide a landscape buffer? 01:26:41
That is, you know, is planted that provides some sort of separation between that and the residential property line. So I guess 01:26:47
what I'm saying is your your land, like maybe you create a landscape island within the development that provides the, you know, 01:26:54
the the buffer as opposed to adjacent to the property line. 01:27:00
So my concern is that you put it up there and then if you know the district has has authority to to restrict trees there, then 01:27:08
it's a condition that's not going to be fulfilled. I want something that's going to be enforceable. 01:27:14
O'reilly's looks like it has trees planted behind there, so it appears that the sewer line is about 30 feet east of the east 01:27:21
property line of Edgewater development and the water line sits within that area. So that whole area would be restricted as to what 01:27:28
type of vegetation could go in possibly. 01:27:35
Most. Most likely. 01:27:42
Is it just gala non deep education? Yeah, Typically there's any deep rooted vegetation. So you would be very limited on trees. 01:27:45
There would be some shrubbery that would probably be allowed, but I doubt you'd get the the height that you needed to block the 01:27:51
noise adequately in my opinion. Sullivan, have you guys. 01:27:57
Have you guys entertained the? 01:28:07
Semi below grade planter. 01:28:12
Options. 01:28:14
With enclosed root barriers. 01:28:16
I don't know that we've looked at those specifically. I guess our. 01:28:19
Our view would be, you know, what the longevity of those plants would be if you're restricting the root, you know, system and then 01:28:24
if you had to come in there and excavate the water line and whatnot. 01:28:30
Would you be able to move those boxes to get those out of the way? How easy would that be? And, and whose responsibility? I mean, 01:28:37
typically what, what our. 01:28:42
Responsibilities are, is we're responsible for repair and maintenance of water lines. Anything below the ground we would bring 01:28:46
back up to, to subgrade or, or, or, you know, grade level if it's not paved. And then you or the, the property owner is 01:28:53
responsible for any repairs or reparations above grade. So anything like that, you know, we feel like we have the authority to 01:29:00
move. I think it's damaging that moving. 01:29:06
Then then we wouldn't be responsible for the repair. 01:29:13
So you're saying the water line is 30 feet off the process, The sewer line is sewer line and so within that 30 feet is the water? 01:29:18
Yeah, and I don't have that. Let me pull that up. So you're correct. 01:29:28
Water lines. Let's pull that up here real quick. 01:29:34
So if I can. 01:29:40
I think there's the storm drain is next. There's definitely some constraints. However, the condition in the zoning ordinance is 01:29:44
going to have to be fulfilled. And so I mean, I think we could go through and pull up a list of plants and identify the specific 01:29:51
ones or we could move. I mean, basically you're saying this has to be done and it has to be done for noise mitigation purposes and 01:29:58
it's going to be reviewed again. 01:30:05
That site plan and so you know, rather than putting the onus on you per se, like basically it's up to the developers to make sure 01:30:13
that this requirement is fulfilled. So if you take out 13, so if you take that back out the 10 foot landscape buffer, do I mean 01:30:20
they are increasing the set back up to 50 feet. I think that's A and that double s it from the 25 feet that was originally 01:30:26
proposed. 01:30:33
But without being able to put trees there, I think you have to move forward with kind of the assumption that you're not going to 01:30:42
have trees there. Are you? Or do you want a sound study? 01:30:46
You can still request 1:00 during the site plan. It provides the Planning Commission the ability to request information to make 01:30:51
sure code is met, but it's always a lot stronger if it's just up front in the code. Would you guys feel more comfortable with 01:30:57
having #13 in there or having a sound study in there? 01:31:02
And what's the concern are you guys designed with with doing a sound study? 01:31:11
Let me ask you this too. Would they be, I mean, if they could provide the landscape buffer with the trees and stuff around the 01:31:17
equipment that's making the noise that may be perhaps further from the, you know, like if you're, if you're a compressor, you're 01:31:23
you're vacuum is 50 feet from the parking line and you surround that with a planter and trees, then you're going to restrict that 01:31:28
noise to that location. 01:31:34
The sound study with the issue is we're dealing with a certain size lot, a small lot that has constraints and we're talking about 01:31:41
specific site design elements that yes, it might be possible, but if we require the site or the sound study, it's up to them to 01:31:48
make sure that it it meets the standards. And if that means putting a landscape island in, they'll put a landscape island in if 01:31:55
there's vegetation that they can put in that 10 skateland landscaping buffer. 01:32:03
That won't interfere. That's approved by the city. They'll do that. 01:32:11
Sounds good. Yeah, Yeah. 01:32:18
I. 01:32:22
Anything else? Any other questions? 01:32:26
No, I flipped through everything again. So. 01:32:29
It'd be nice to see it all. 01:32:32
All right. Together, yeah. 01:32:35
Sorry, are you saying you want to? 01:32:39
Continue it or. 01:32:44
I think you might continue just so we can see it all put together and. 01:32:46
I don't know. 01:32:52
Our hope was to go before. 01:32:56
City Council, you know, and that's why we've worked really hard to make those modifications and quite honestly, these conditions. 01:32:58
Most of them are. 01:33:08
Converting the shells or the maize to be shells, in a lot of instances there's nothing. I don't see anything in here that's not. 01:33:10
There's nothing new in here that's not addressed. In essence, it's moving parking. So parking requirements, instead of it being up 01:33:21
to the city planner, it's up to the zoning code. 01:33:26
You know I. 01:33:33
Something that's not in here Morgan is the removing residential and making it developer agreement. 01:33:35
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the biggest substantive change, right? I mean, that's just like that's just my learning disorder to 01:33:44
need to see it in my in my face, but. 01:33:50
Yes, that means. 01:33:58
And on that, Morgan, sorry, let me bring this up so I can end it. 01:33:59
Sorry, could we make it also with the development agreement? 01:34:11
Do you think it makes sense to make it to say with the development agreement they could go up to 26 units per acre or? 01:34:17
Should we leave it open? 01:34:25
Just one second, Sir. 01:34:31
I. 01:34:48
I. 01:35:00
In this case, we're removing residential completely, but then we allow it through the provision of a development grant. So that's 01:35:41
that's the worst things. We're moving it from the table. 01:35:46
Yeah. So mixed-use residential, Yeah, there's can be permitted through a development agreement, yeah. 01:35:51
OK. I'm sorry, Bryce, what were you saying and then? 01:36:06
Do you think we should make a cap on that as well? 01:36:09
Now, well, how, if you, if you wanted, The thing is, I'm a little concerned with that because I kind of want the, the market to, 01:36:13
to drive it. So let's say they want to take the top like 2 watts or the, you know, 2 1/2 lots, not including the, the district's 01:36:21
property. But if they wanted to to do those, you know, I, I, I'd like it to be more driven by, by the design. You have the 01:36:28
architect look at it, you know what, what's going to make a great product and then they come through. 01:36:36
The Planning Commission of City Council, because they're going through a development agreement to get more residential, it 01:36:43
actually provides the, you know, the city quite, quite a bit of power. And like if they come in with 300 units, you know, you 01:36:50
could say, well, I mean, you could treat it essentially like like a zone change. But unless, if you want to just for like just to 01:36:57
tap it at 100 or I don't know if you want to talk to the applicant to see kind of what. So I just wanted to be such that. 01:37:04
The city feels like they don't have to do anything. 01:37:12
Like they don't need to improve anything, but it would have to be some some circumstance that's abnormal that they would want to. 01:37:16
So how considerate how how we put in the code. 01:37:25
As a. 01:37:30
So, OK, so mixing residential may be permitted through the approval of a development agreement. So it may and that and that's the 01:37:33
time where it's going to use may, like the city of May approve it. You're not, you're not required to to approve it. And 01:37:39
essentially it's considered a zone change. And so it's not it, it doesn't like you, you have more power from a, from a City side 01:37:46
requiring them to go through a development agreement and there would be like a public hearing and everything. 01:37:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like the whole way farms. They would go through public hearing with the Planning Commission and City 01:38:00
Council. 01:38:03
OK. It'd be, it'd be approved by by a national ordinance like an ordinance number with the warehouses and all that. So. 01:38:07
OK. And it's already pretty limited just just by virtue of? 01:38:15
The allowed height of the building, yeah. 01:38:21
Yes, I mean you could if you, if you're concerned about you could, you could restrict where residential is is located. 01:38:24
And so that that might have further restricted if you want to say like the. 01:38:33
Death. You want to ignore that so. 01:38:39
The top 2 northern lot, what do you think? Yeah, so it makes use residential may be permitted through a development agreement on 01:38:43
the northern. 01:38:47
Two lots. 3 lots. 01:38:53
2 1/2 lots 4 lots the northern 4 lots of. 01:38:56
How about that? 01:39:03
Yeah, we need you can get the lot. 01:39:04
Negotiated through our DA, you said. 01:39:09
So lot 881214 and 15, yeah. 01:39:13
He's like, you know what? I was 1314 and 15. 01:39:24
Yeah, we could do 12/13/14 and 15. 01:39:28
It's just those, Yeah, 12 doesn't count, but eight? We could just, like, build a little branch over the world. 01:39:31
I'm just thinking about how long many units could be on here. 01:39:43
What do you guys think? 01:39:52
Yeah, I think that puts it like a Max of four stories just. 01:39:54
I mean, we haven't had have won this intense in a long time. 01:40:00
That's a lot, and would be a lot. 01:40:05
With the northern 215. 01:40:10
15. 01:40:16
Retail. 01:40:20
I mean as far as. 01:40:21
Yeah, it would be nice to not have to do that, but also like. 01:40:25
It's. 01:40:34
There anything you wanted to add Morgan, I will bring it back on. 01:40:37
OK. So 3 mixed-use residential may be permitted through the approval of the development agreement laws ADA to achieve the retail 01:40:51
front of subdivision flat and lots 1214 and 15 of the Dominican retail fund and subdivision property. 01:40:58
Oh, that's what. That's what's right. 01:41:10
All right, give me a second. 01:41:13
We're getting there. 01:41:17
At 12/14/15. 01:41:20
Of yeah. 01:41:22
Isn't that right? That's not right. 01:41:27
That's right. 01:41:30
Yeah, that's right. 01:41:32
I don't think there was one. OK, sorry. I thought you were saying that I mixed up the lot. Sorry. I think we're good. 01:41:36
There you go. Anything else you guys wanted to add or? 01:41:45
I can't think of anything else. OK, all right. I have a motion then. 01:41:51
Is it too? 01:41:59
Recommend. 01:42:01
Yeah. So here one second, let me get to that. So, yeah, so I motion to forward a positive recommendation to the City Council Board 01:42:03
and it was 20/22/09 for the Geneva Rd. makes you kind of read that out and then with conditions. 01:42:11
With the 14. 01:42:20
Yeah, with the 14 conditions listed in the staff route that the staff presentation provided on June 22nd, 2022. So you just change 01:42:23
a lot into 14. Okay. I motion to forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022-09 for the Geneva Rd. 01:42:30
mixed-use District Zoning Text Amendment and Zoning Map amendment with the 14 conditions listed in the staff presentation provided 01:42:38
on June 22nd, 2022. 01:42:45
I apologize and this is really annoying. Could you add this one to just reread it? But say with the 14 conditions as modified 01:42:53
listed in the staff presentation, I would say as modified. So it's it's clear that they're modified conditions as modified. Okay. 01:43:01
I'm motion to you forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022, Dash 09. 01:43:10
For the Geneva Rd. mixed-use District Zoning Text amendment and Zoning Map amendment with the 14 conditions as modified. 01:43:18
By staff. 01:43:29
Listed in the staff presentation by Nineteen 22nd 2022. Is there a second second? 01:43:32
Yes. 01:43:41
Hi. 01:43:45
Hey. Hi, Bryce. I. 01:43:46
All right, great. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks. Can I have like 5 minutes? 01:43:49
Like just a 5 minute break real quick. These conversations are really. 01:43:56
What's important to you and what we need to be focusing on as we transition to site design So. 01:44:03
Because it'll be back before you do 5.2 hold away farms development agreement. Do I have a motion to open a public hearing? 01:44:08
Aye. So move right a second. Second. All in favor. Aye, Aye. All right. We are in a public hearing. We have a presentation by 01:44:17
Morgan. All right. 01:44:23
Well, that was fun. 01:44:49
Every now and then we, we, we get one of those kind of complex ones. So that's, that was a big one. I mean a mixed-use district 01:44:50
with a, with a zoning map amount of. So I appreciate your guys patience and, and being able to, to dig through those, those 01:44:56
important issues. So tonight it's not necessarily as much as a presentation. I'll have the development agreement up the project 01:45:02
that was approved the whole way. 01:45:08
Farms special zoning district and and overall like neighborhood plan that's that was approved in the past. 01:45:15
Is, you know, same plan, so the things that you've you've looked at and considered in the past. 01:45:22
Nothing has just changed in, in that regard. What this development agreement does is that provides kind of the the ability with, 01:45:29
with phasing. That's a really important thing as we know with like Main Street and foreigners South, it's always like it's gonna 01:45:36
keep coming up. Helps us to get a better idea of kind of when those elements will come online. 01:45:42
There's also like an infrastructure kind of some of the things that you didn't. 01:45:51
That more of staff has worked on is the. 01:45:55
Is there the collector roads and foreigners South and Main Street those are? 01:45:59
You know, under our plan it shows putting collective roads in, we can only require the developer to build infrastructure to fit 01:46:06
their needs. And so we're required to take it from a local up to a collector standard if we want the full collector and so it it 01:46:12
provides. 01:46:18
Basically an agreement in there that the city will help participate. 01:46:26
And those two Rd. segments to get it from, you know, to get it up to the fall collector road right of way and it caps it at 01:46:30
$250,000. And so it provides kind of some safeguard in, in, in that regard. 01:46:37
The the phasing kind of the important things to point out. I know this has also been a concern with other developments. I'm 01:46:46
wanting to make sure that amenities come online sooner rather than later. If you remember the entrance park, that's the the park 01:46:51
that sits behind. 01:46:56
Jake Holdaways house and how we have that written is that that will be completed before the 103rd certificate of occupancy. 01:47:03
The community park. 01:47:14
Would come, that's the kind of the trailhead park that sits above the adjacent Lake Park and that would come online prior to the 01:47:17
163rd certificate of occupancy and the neighborhood park would come online prior to the 222nd certificate of occupancy. And we 01:47:25
also have the private amenities that are associated with the age restricted units. 01:47:33
And so the clubhouse pool and the kind of the associated amenities, recreational amenities with them and those would be required 01:47:42
to be. 01:47:46
Final prior to the 63rd age restricted unit and so we felt it was important to make sure that I've had those those in there so 01:47:51
that we're not waiting till the very end before amenities come online. If you kind of remember with with water's edge we didn't 01:47:57
have a lot of those things in place. And so you know the clubhouses and the parks came online way after residents have been there. 01:48:03
So it was several years of residents living in the development. So we took all those importance make sure that the development 01:48:09
agreement. 01:48:15
Play to that the same anything from anything that you'd want to highlight for maybe the infrastructure standpoint. 01:48:21
So in regards to the non development agreement on infrastructure, I think there's one item that probably highlight that the 01:48:30
developers are doing is on the park space that they're they're incorporating underground detention system into the park space. You 01:48:37
know, I just want to highlight that that's kind of. 01:48:44
Well used of optimizing space, the green space and ensuring about with and me and the storm and water quality but. 01:48:53
Facility that I need so I know in the past in other areas that yeah there's like called that that zones that spaces on there. So I 01:49:02
want I want to highlight the developers. 01:49:09
Taking the opportunity to do something like that, that's on the West side, like the larger park on the West side on that. And then 01:49:18
of course in terms of the development agreement when it comes to the infrastructure that we discussed and I believe, I believe 01:49:24
Morgan touched up on it with the connection of for Main Street and 400 S that where that connection connectivity being tied to to 01:49:31
Phase 2. 01:49:37
Of that of the particular development. 01:49:43
Oh, so, so with that being said, obviously working, working with developer to ensure that while that's going in that we're 01:49:47
incorporating other other parts of the infrastructure traffic system to ensure that when that goes in that we're that the cities 01:49:54
kind of incorporating other, incorporating other traffic needs as well to the surrounding and then zip and nail portion of it. The 01:50:01
development agreement has a developer. 01:50:08
Providing support to the city in terms of doing the traffic, traffic calming study. 01:50:16
For an area that's outside their development and due to that would be corporate is part of it future connectivity which is where 01:50:22
the where the connection is going to be made by a different developer as well. The city would still be the one that would 01:50:30
implement the actual measures at the deems necessary in order excuse me in order to accommodate. 01:50:37
Proper traffic calming measures along Zippendale, but we feel confident that the developer has gone. 01:50:46
Well, to a limit of. 01:50:54
Cooperation with the city. 01:50:56
And Bryce, I believe you had and thank you, Miss Sam. I believe Andy correct confirm you, you brought up two things when you 01:51:00
reviewed the development agreement. One was to have the Planning Commission review the traffic calming measures prior to the city 01:51:07
engineer approving the city engineer sales authority to approve those. But you'd at least be able to say, no, we don't want a 01:51:14
bunch of speed bonds. Or you know, you could, you could look at some, some of the the options out there being provided. 01:51:21
Yeah. So I think we could if you in your motion, if you approve it, then I would, you know, add that in there. Yeah. And then the 01:51:28
other item I believe you had mentioned this is we have the same here to discuss this. But so building out the park and the road in 01:51:38
phase two, but not making the connection to Zinfandel Lane until the end of the project. So like in phase eight, I believe. 01:51:47
And so the scene wasn't here for when we had that conversation, but. 01:51:57
That might be good out here and maybe the developers gonna provide their comfort. Yeah, making again with 7 Dale making the 01:52:01
connection to from the proposed development to the existing Zippendale on the north side would require to. 01:52:09
First, in coordination cooperation with the current the minor in center which is home center. I have no doubt that home center on 01:52:19
their development with accommodate that What I would say is that I think that we take into consideration. 01:52:26
The situation at the time of the connections are being made in terms of that we're making the making connections. 01:52:34
Early or may be able to help provide for some type of additional connectivity especially for the individuals who live on 01:52:45
Zippendale as well. So the problem that I'm seeing with the residents on Zinfandel is that they don't want us at the very least. 01:52:54
They want Main Street to connect to Florida South. They don't want Zinfandel to be an option for people to exit or enter the rest 01:53:04
of the city because of that neighborhood. Probably 80% of them have kids under the age of five. So they don't want that to be 01:53:11
through Rd. I think for that for something I've had to change. And again, Morgan, I apologize for cutting you off, but I think 01:53:17
something like that for for that to change the home center development would have to. 01:53:24
I think that the plans is with the development of the North being home center. 01:53:31
Has to be made and I believe that was part of the city's plan all along. For that to change, we would there would have to be 01:53:37
other, other proposals and as well as the developer would have to make considerable changes. But not this developer, excuse me, 01:53:43
but the home center developer. We have to make some considerable changes to the design as well. 01:53:50
As far as designed to connect it, I mean I want it should connect. I'm just saying that you wanted to wait until after 4th South 01:53:58
and mainstream connected before you open up the Zinfandel. 01:54:04
Is that right? Yeah, and I believe that would be done tent anyway, because again to make the connections of the bell, there would 01:54:11
be there's a second developer who's on the room that would have to that would be that we would have to do the coordination dance 01:54:17
with where the developer that that's currently in the room has. 01:54:23
Their, their, their, their construction development is tied to being able to make the connections for foreigners South and Main 01:54:30
St. in order to get the connectivity that they need in order to building permits. 01:54:35
Connection for $7.00 not yeah. But what I can say is when we do make the connection at Zippendale, we can the city can make sure 01:54:42
that any kind of additional measures for traffic comment that would need to be put in place would be I would, I would, I say this 01:54:50
as a state engineers, I would would want to see those things put in place parts in making the final connection. So this way. 01:54:58
Prior, so it requires for example 20 speed bumps, which I would not support anyway. 01:55:08
As I exaggerate example that we would install those 20 speed bumps before making a connection. So when drivers are on the road 01:55:14
that they're whatever traffic measures their their use is in place and that they get used to that power measures as far as their 01:55:21
half driving habits. So they can choose not to drive on Sippandale if they if they don't want to do that, yes. So should we put 01:55:29
something in this that just says I think you're you're city engineer. Here's you guys I I I don't. 01:55:36
He's gonna move, move. You know, it sounds like that would be his intent too. Is that that connection before he makes that? Cause 01:55:44
what could happen is if you make that connection first, I think what you're, what you're getting at is you're gonna have people 01:55:49
using that. And you know, Zinfandel turns into a collector Rd. when it, when you know, we, we would rather people their habits 01:55:55
get, you know, yeah. We don't want another whole guy. No offense. 01:56:01
But I don't think you need to put down the development grant, but if you want it there, we're happy to accommodate. 01:56:10
OK, OK. I don't I, I mean, if we're on the same page, I don't think that means to be there. Just wanted to make it clear. 01:56:15
So we just have the one the one change then. 01:56:24
I don't think you need to add that in the scene. I mean, however you want. I mean, he's here. He's hearing you that you want to 01:56:29
review it. We're on the same page, right? Yeah. 01:56:32
Try again. Yes, you don't necessarily get out as long as Naseem is here in a few years to like right here. 01:56:37
So the other the other thing it mentions in the in this. 01:56:47
Let me see if I can find it. As far as parking, it says that they'll go with the city's overnight parking plan, but we have 01:56:54
multiple. We have the one that's in the one neighborhood where people can get permits, and we have the one that's in the other 01:56:59
neighborhood where there are no permits. So I think we need to define that. 01:57:04
I'm trying to think of what we would call. 01:57:11
One versus the other, I mean, I think their intent was the permit parking, OK. And so we can clarify that, that they'll go with 01:57:14
the the the permit overnight parking. That's that's the difference between the two. One doesn't even allow it the other 01:57:20
department. 01:57:25
Is that right? 01:57:31
Let's add permit parking. I was, I did think it was awesome with the storm water in the parks. I was, I did have a question about 01:57:34
that. I don't anymore. And then the other thing I was wondering kind of with the street. 01:57:40
When this was going through the Planning Commission and the City Council, it was all we're going to connect. 01:57:47
Further South and Main St. This is a huge benefit for the city that we're connecting this and it's a lot of upfront cost for us to 01:57:53
do this. So I was really surprised to see that the city's like. 01:57:58
Has to provide the extra 250,000 to make it what you guys said it was going to be. 01:58:04
So I was just kind of disappointed in that. I know I've talked to Morgan a little bit about it, that legally you guys don't have 01:58:10
to, but. 01:58:14
I I just felt kind of gross inside after seeing that personally. 01:58:18
We don't want you to feel gross inside. 01:58:25
But I'll speak to that in our conversations from the very beginning a year and a half ago with Don Overson, that was very clear 01:58:30
upfront that the city would participate in the construction of the road. Yes, we did present that that would be made because we're 01:58:36
the land owners and we control whether that connections made unless you eminent domain it, we've donated the land. We're not 01:58:43
asking the city to pay for the cost of the extra land to construct the road, but from the very beginning. 01:58:49
In our meetings with staff and with Don specifically, was clear that we were. 01:58:56
That this was above and beyond for the project and would need to be paid for by the city. And so we weren't trying to hide it. It 01:59:01
was simply a conversation that we had an understanding on. And and, and yeah, we did point out that this project enabled the 01:59:09
connection of mainstream 4 S to take place. So, but you said you donated the land. So it is, are we getting more out of it than 01:59:16
even we're so we're getting, we're getting the land for the road that they that they originally proposed so. 01:59:23
To kind of point out so they yeah, So what the city is requiring is the 77 foot right of way. And you know, there's like 02:00:01
difference in here and like what they're required to is like the 56. And so basically they're they're not charged in the city for 02:00:08
the increase in land for the right of way so. 02:00:15
Yeah, it works out. 02:00:25
Is there anything, if you guys have a chance to go over this? Is there anything that you had questions about or comments about? 02:00:30
No, no. 02:00:37
Anything else you want to? 02:00:39
No, no, Yeah, this is a yeah. Our code just requires the public hearing. So I I think did you guys open the public hearing yet? 02:00:41
OK. 02:00:45
Yeah, I guess we'll have some public comments. 02:00:52
Hi, it's David, Loray, resident. 02:01:01
Yeah, I wanted to ask a little bit about the the continuation of 400 S because I look at the at the phase map where you know the 02:01:03
hot pink area is is zone 2. It shows that continuing out to the corner of Holloway Rd. 02:01:11
And which is cool, but I wonder what the city has has planned for. We're taking it from there over to the Orem border where where 02:01:20
it's because it's not it's not really room there for a four lane. You know this extra wide Rd. you're making here won't continue 02:01:27
and connect to the rest of our S would. 02:01:34
So how wide is how? It's a 77 foot wide Rd. isn't it? If I remember correctly off of the. 02:01:42
Yeah. I don't know what that that one portion is. Yeah. So I. 02:01:49
I'm talking about the one star which is on the east side of Geneva. No, I'm talking about 400 S just immediately east of Holdaway 02:01:56
Rd. 02:02:03
I understand so I mean the attack on the 400 S would be to east of four way roads 33 lane Rd. 02:02:12
It's a three line run. 02:02:20
Yeah, so. 02:02:26
I mean, it turns out, I mean the intent is to, excuse me, the intent is to provide like to we'll go through the track this 02:02:29
evening. We'll do the traffic transportation master plan in the next coming year to see exactly if there needs to be a widening of 02:02:37
bad roads going to the east side of things. Again, it comes, it kind of comes out to the double edged sword where you know you are 02:02:44
in the road, add more traffic and then you've got more you then get. 02:02:51
With higher speeds, which kind of which which conflicts with the land use of the park. You have the large park, you have the 02:02:59
elementary school, you have residential in that area, which again comes down to the cylindrical effects of having to not to play 02:03:05
on road diet. 02:03:11
And to decrease the volume and decrease the speed. I believe our intent is to maximize the right of way that we currently have in 02:03:17
order to incorporate active transportation. 02:03:25
Most means for example by bike lanes and so forth, and then try to address those narrow parts. 02:03:34
Narrow parts by incorporating trails, additional bikes on that not not to try to. 02:03:43
Increase the volume of cars that goes there, but to increase the accessibility of things, right? Yeah. My only concern is why are 02:03:49
we paying the extra money to have a wide Rd. If if, if there's that choke point, there's a wide anyway. Why pay extra, have a wire 02:03:56
Rd. when the rest of it isn't wide enough for the cars to get? How wide is is the proposed Rd. in comparison to the current 02:04:02
forecast? 02:04:08
Off the top of my head, I don't know what the difference is, but there with the development agreement shows that the development 02:04:15
agreement has where the city would pay up to a certain dollar amount the city does not have to. 02:04:20
Take advantage of that particular item, the developer can build the road as as it is obviously any kind of additional costs in the 02:04:25
future. The city would want to take the right away to preserve the preserve the corridor for any kind of future for any kind of 02:04:34
future that means. So we look at the math, the phasing map real quick. Is it possible to bring up on the screen? 02:04:43
But yes, I don't know, like I said to say, we want to take advantage of preserving the corridor for that wider right away. And 02:04:55
then of course, if the state chooses to go ahead with the wider areas, then we would do so with the planner trying to acquire some 02:05:02
right away at the areas where it does choke down. So perhaps it looks like I just answered your question that it may be off a 02:05:09
little bit on this, but it looks like it was about 60 feet for the three lane segment of. 02:05:17
400 S but that road didn't contemplate like bike lanes and and you know, the active transportation stuff. 02:05:24
So with and I saw, I saw in the agreement it's the 77 foot wide Rd. So that would include the bike lanes and the one lane each way 02:05:32
and the center lane I assume, yeah. 02:05:38
I'm really hiding in favor of the 77 foot wide Rd. going through all the way to Geneva Rd. I mean that that's I'd like to see that 02:05:45
or better, which I think we have if, if we fix that choke point right there just immediately east of where that pink ends. Looks 02:05:52
like there's some property there. It's in the way. 02:05:58
East side of that. 02:06:06
Area that's West of Holdaway Rd. as well. I know that's Jake Holdaways. It's actually east of of South Hallway Rd. the one that 02:06:10
goes up. 02:06:16
I understand there's a meaning problem there was far South and whether it's Holdaway Rd. there in that corner, that little strip 02:06:23
there, but the land right in front of Robert Kimora Holway's old home, that that's the place I'm looking at right in there. And 02:06:28
then it continues over I think over to Ashley. 02:06:32
Acres. 02:06:39
That's the strip I'm looking at there. Yeah. So the church, the church property and then Ashley Acres. 02:06:40
So again, to answer to answer the question in regards to that I mean. 02:06:48
Season the cities are going to go through transformation master plan next fiscal year and that's it. And that would be an area 02:06:52
that the city would obviously make some considerations as to is it work is in order to take right away from existing property. 02:06:58
It's much more expensive than trying to get right away from undeveloped properly, especially when the developer is donating to us 02:07:05
at no cost. 02:07:11
So that would be something that the city would have to see. What's the advantages of that financially as well as operationally? 02:07:18
And then turn into the budget in order to make to be able to acquire the set profit these side a whole wave Rd. actually looks 02:07:25
pretty good. This is a 60 foot. But I think what you're saying, David, is this right here like I'm saying, I'm saying like it's a 02:07:32
77 foot wide clear up to that corner, which is great. But to continue at 77 foot wide, you're going to have to buy some land. 02:07:40
You'd have to cut 17 feet extra on that road. Yeah. And then I I think we'd have to we'd have to look at the master plan. 02:07:47
Make that level investment like OK, I, I yeah. And that was, and you recall there was well, the whole reason there was the whole 02:07:55
recall issue is because some of the residents over there were afraid of that exact issue. And so anyway, I was just a. 02:08:03
One of the reasons I really don't want to follow up with that, see what what the tough part is. I mean, you go up to 77 the whole 02:08:11
way. I mean, it, it would be fairly expensive. We, I mean, you're taking out front yards and stuff. So we have to really look at 02:08:17
that and see if if it's, you know, using the master. 02:08:23
Transportation Plan. 02:08:31
So I think that that should tell us if it's if it's warranted or not, but. 02:08:33
This right here, I mean the improvements going to this development could, you know, really help the situation. Yeah, No, I, I 02:08:37
agree. I like the idea. I just, I just if we're not going to buy the extra property, we're going to to connect them is why we have 02:08:45
the why we make building the extra Rd. you know, capacity won't use I mean, I mean, if you can't get there from here. 02:08:52
To answer that question. 02:09:02
Right away that's the right way for descending 7th is that, you know, like I said, the developer is going to provide that. 02:09:05
To the city and then but and then the party development agreement would be up to a certain dollar amount of the city chooses to 02:09:13
only add 2 feet to the current Rd. I'm sure the developer with accommodate that build out to the full length. I'm sure that the 02:09:18
developer it's in the development agreement that the developer will accommodate that as well. Yeah, there's nothing about this 02:09:24
this development needs to change. I like what's happening there. I'm just talking about after that area ends that that strip there 02:09:30
that however long that strip is. 02:09:36
Yeah. And then that's all And I just if it's possible to make sure that gets on the, when you, I know you're doing a study next 02:09:42
year, can you make sure that that's high, high priority look at that in that study? Yeah. So again, that would be definitely an 02:09:48
area that we would have to consult and take a look at to see about the feasibility. Again, it comes out to be cost versus 02:09:54
operational and as well as other areas of the city. 02:10:00
If we make it too wide, it may be an attractive three-way to future projects farther out. 02:10:06
Oh, there you go. 02:10:15
Yeah. 02:10:18
Thanks, David. 02:10:20
Also something cool if if we have this with the bike lanes in the road and it's pulled away Rd. becomes a bike Blvd. then those 02:10:22
bike lanes I mean they'll end right there until all the way hold away Rd. which would be cool. 02:10:30
So I have one addition, the adding permit parking language. 02:10:40
To the overnight program. 02:10:47
Anything else? 02:10:50
No, so I just wanted to read real quick. 02:10:53
So, so in this just going back to the whole Zinfandel thing, it says the developer shall coordinate with the city and the 02:11:06
developer of the property adjacent to the property's northern border to stub a road connection to E Zinfandel Lane from the 02:11:13
project prior to the city's issuance of 103rd certificate. So I think we just need to define that better because it says that 02:11:19
they'll work with the city and the property owner to get it done before the 103rd. I think we just need to. 02:11:26
To clarify that that because if they're doing that, if they're. 02:11:35
If we don't want it to connect or they can't connect with with home center. 02:11:40
Then I mean, they're not abiding by the development agreement. So I think that we need to adjust that so that they are compliant 02:11:46
with that. 02:11:50
I'm trying to understand what you're asking. If you don't want it or want it because it was, there's only one place for that road. 02:11:57
OK, but there's only one place for it to go, so I don't even know why. That's not even my argument either. No, it's just that that 02:12:05
it needs to connect before the 103rd certificate is what it says in here. 02:12:10
And I'm just saying don't connect it until you're just done with the project. But we can't, we wouldn't do that for a lot of 02:12:16
reasons, because we have to put the park in which has to have parking and we're not going to come back and put in a stub Rd. after 02:12:22
we built part. So I mean, I kind of have to go in when that part goes in. I guess that part goes in when up to 103rd. That's why 02:12:28
we put it at the 103rd. So if you want to delay the park, I guess we could delay. So. So in that case, then I think we need to 02:12:34
make it clear. 02:12:40
We need that the road goes in, but we make it so that it is non accessible as far as like through traffic. Like we put a chain 02:12:46
across the road. So it wouldn't be unless the developer to the north did something. And what I'm saying is in this it says that 02:12:54
you'll work with the property owner of the north to connect it. And I'm saying get rid of that. So it doesn't say that. 02:13:02
All we can do is stuck to the property and the only location that can go is there, yes. So if I this is benefiting you guys, 02:13:09
that's why I'm saying. 02:13:14
They can meet their their requirement by simply stubbing it there. Yeah. The same is humanity. And she's over the infrastructure. 02:13:20
So he's getting, you know, depends on the timing. I mean, he can make sure that's it. Yeah. I think we just need to clarify that 02:13:26
in this, that they stab it to the edge of their property at the very least. 02:13:33
I mean. 02:13:42
Well, again I would like to speak the language as is. I mean to work with other developer, make sure that the designs are 02:13:45
coordinated and everything, all the lines are done. But again, what is going to be a public road and the city may choose to block 02:13:50
it as it wishes. 02:13:54
So I mean at the end of the day when the department, this developer builds the road and you know it's meets the requirements of 02:13:59
the city and stay accepted. 02:14:05
From that point forward, it's turned over to the city for the city's use of the city decides to close the road off 100% as long as 02:14:11
it's not affecting developers ability to move forward into the development. The city has sole control over that road. It doesn't 02:14:17
impact us. My only concern is is that. 02:14:23
You can't go through a field anyways and developer does. Either way, it doesn't matter to us. I'm just saying in the event that 02:14:56
the developer doesn't cooperate, there's no other option for us other than build a road where it's designed and shown. 02:15:01
And that that'll be up to the city to to there. We work really well with that developer. So we're not, you know, we want to have 02:15:08
coordination. I just didn't want there to be some kind of numbers like OK. 02:15:14
Yeah, OK. 02:15:23
No other questions or anything. 02:15:24
Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? 02:15:29
Motion to close the public hearing, Yes. 02:15:35
Second all in favor, aye. 02:15:37
Right, I have a motion. 02:15:40
Is there anything else you wanted to add Morgan or? 02:15:43
Yeah. 02:15:53
I guess I don't know how to work this motion. 02:16:02
So. 02:16:10
OK, correct. 02:16:33
I forward a positive recommendation to the City Council of Ordinance 2022-10, Holdaway Farms Development Agreement with the 02:16:36
condition that the. 02:16:42
Parking. 02:16:49
To clarify that it is the permitted parking for overnight parking. 02:16:54
And a second. 02:17:00
Sure. 02:17:03
Yes, for a second, second. This is a roll call. So Chris, aye, aye. 02:17:08
All right. 02:17:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish that was. 02:17:23
Moving on to Commission member report and staff report and expertise, discussion and disclosure. 02:17:31
I got nothing. 02:17:39
Nothing, Seth. 02:17:41
Yeah, nothing from from us. We'll, we'll, we'll have, we'll, we'll give you a good update probably in the next meeting. 02:17:44
Sounds good. Is is Jeff? Is he officially off the Commission? Yes. Yeah. So they will be. Yes. So the mayor is charged with making 02:17:51
the appointment and we will chat with her and see kind of what her her what how she wants to move forward with it. OK. And I know 02:17:58
we only have three members here tonight. Is there any discussion happening for. 02:18:05
Any replacement of yeah, well, like that's the mayor pick somebody new and then Tim and Anthony works yesterday are two 02:18:13
alternates. Yeah. So potentially on how she wants them. So how how the how the bylaws read is 3 consecutive meetings. And so this 02:18:22
this will be I think 4 meetings, but three. 02:18:30
Consecutive like, like actual beings, right? Yeah. Because we, we've had a special meeting and I don't know if we can count that 02:18:39
or not. 02:18:42
It's denies technically a special meeting, but anyway, I think I think we're past the threshold and so it'll be be up to the 02:18:46
mayor. We talked with her. I mean, we definitely our preference would be for people who are appointed to show up and you know, but 02:18:52
we're we're kind of at that point where we tonight, let's say if one of you got sick, then we'd have two major developments that 02:18:59
would not be able to move forward, You know, so this is this is a really real close one, I mean, like. 02:19:05
I mean I would have. 02:19:15
Gotten sick again. I would have zoomed in and at least you'd have that. Yeah, we can zoom. So when's our next scheduled meeting? 02:19:17
Yeah, seriously. 02:19:21
Our next scheduled meeting is in July, OK, July 6th, and we do have quite a few items for that meeting, OK. 02:19:27
So if that is everything. 02:19:34
Anything adjourned? 02:19:37
I have only one comment. 02:19:40
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