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Mayor Julie Fullmer called the meeting to order at 6:00 PM. Councilmember Flake led the Pledge of Allegiance and invocation.   2.     Canvass and swearing in of planniNg commissioner 2.1  canvass – 2023 Municipal General Election Canvass and Certification The City Recorder Pamela Spencer will present the results of the 2023 Municipal General Election. The mayor and City Council will sit as the Board of Canvassers to certify the results of the 2023 Municipal General Election.
City Recorder, Pamela Spencer presented the results of the 2023 Municipal General Election. Mrs. Spencer explained each category and the numbers/percentage of each category. She asked the council to certify the election with the results given.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO CERTIFY THE VOTE AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer thanked the outgoing councilmembers for their service. She expressed her appreciation for the dedication and love it takes to serve in a community and presented a gift to Councilmembers Cristy Welsh and Tyce Flake. Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to the outgoing council members.
Councilmember Welsh expressed her gratitude for the time she served in the community.
Councilmember Flake shared his thoughts on his service in the community. 2.2  Swearing in of New Planning Commissioner City Recorder Pamela Spencer will swear in Nathan Steel as a new sitting Planning Commissioner. Mr. Steel was appointed during the City Council Special Session on December 6, 2023.
Mayor Fullmer announced a new Planning Commission member, Nathan Steel. She also thanked former Planning Commission member Anthony Jenkins for his service on the Planning Commission.
Ms. Spencer swore Nathan Steel in as the newest Planning Commission member.
Mr. Steel introduced himself and expressed his excitement to serve on the Planning Commission.   3.     Public Comments
Mayor Fullmer called for public comments.
Resident David Lauret asked if consent item 6.7 could be discussed publicly. Mayor Fullmer asked the council if they would be okay with this, and the council agreed.
Resident Daria Evans, living in The Villas, thanked the city for the holiday decorations. Ms. Evans asked how much Redevelopment Agency (RDA) money was going to be used for the cemetery and fire station spoken about in the previous meeting. She also had a question about the land donation agreement and the fire station being a part of it; and would like to know where that will be and also where the cemetery will be located. Ms. Evans then asked if she could comment on consent item 6.2 (Bicycle Advisory Commission) and Mayor Fullmer responded yes. Ms. Evans asked who requested the change and the reason behind it.
Resident Shawn Herring, living in the Ashely Acres subdivision, asked where public notices are posted. Deputy Recorder, Heidi Jackman responded that they are posted on the website, bulletin board in the city office and a park pavilion bulletin board. Mr. Herring stated that he thought public notices should also be posted on social media. He also expressed concern about feedback about meeting attendance and wanted to point out that now people are showing up and listening.
Resident Karen Cornelius expressed her concerns about the seating for the meeting and asked that it be postponed. She also expressed concern that residents are not getting enough credit for their time regarding meeting attendance and reading the materials.
Resident Chase Wheeler, living in the Lake Front subdivision expressed concern for safer parking and the city council’s response to his concerns.
Resident Sherrie Kaye Miller expressed her apologies to Planning Commissioner Brad Fagg, for a comment she made to him at the December 6, 2023, Planning Commission meeting.  She expressed concern about the conflict she felt around Vineyard City and spoke about a text conversation she had with Councilmember Cristy Welsh regarding a survey for the mural on the water tower. She expressed concern for the timing of items on the agenda and the meeting date.
After a question regarding how many minutes for public comments, Mayor Fullmer confirmed that the time was 3 minutes.
Utah County Republican Party Chair, Christie Henshaw commented on the Public Infrastructure District and Mayor Fullmer asked her to comment when the item came up on the agenda.
Resident Jacob Holdaway commented that he wished the meeting wasn’t held during the holidays. Mr. Holdaway thanked Councilmember Mardi Sifuentes for removing consent item 6.7 expressed concerns about issues he wishes to investigate.
Resident Keith Holdaway expressed concern that the agenda was dropped 24 hours before the meeting. Mayor Fullmer asked the audience to please raise their hand if they agreed with a comment to obtain order in the room. Mr. Holdaway expressed concern about respect and communication.
Mayor Fullmer asked City Attorney, Jayme Blakesley to explain the timing of noticing for meetings. Mr. Blakesley explained what is required in noticing.
Resident Tristy Lee commented that the attendees in the lobby were having trouble hearing. She also expressed her concerns that the meeting be postponed due to limited space. Mayor Fullmer responded that they will notice the attendees in the lobby what item was being discussed and they were welcome to come in and comment.
Resident David Eitel, living in the West Brook subdivision, expressed concern about the traffic caused by an accident earlier that week and what could be done about it.Mayor Fullmer responded that there is a form he can fill out asking for information about the transportation plan. Mr. Eitel also expressed concern about fiber lines being installed and spray paint on his property. Mayor Fullmer responded that they can give him information on who he can call regarding that.
Resident Chris Price, living in the Providence subdivision, expressed his love for his country and the constitution. He expressed concern for the direction the city is going.
Resident Julie Cox, living in the Providence subdivision commented that she would like the meeting postponed.
Resident Jason Christensen expressed concern about items on the agenda.
Resident Ryan Holdaway spoke about comments made previously about vesting rights and developer rights. He expressed concern regarding public safety and protecting children.
Resident Clayton Prete, living in the Solstice subdivision expressed concern about the attendees not being able to hear out in the lobby.
Resident Jim McGillan expressed concern regarding timing, noticing and space for the meeting.
Mayor Fullmer stated she would close public comments at 7:15 PM.
Resident Sara Cameron, living in the Parkside subdivision, expressed concerns regarding parking at Lake Front Town Homes and Condos. She asked Mayor Fullmer if she would remove parking restrictions during the dark months for overnight parking. Mayor Fullmer responded that she had called the Homeowner’s Association (HOA) and they told her that because they had worked on the permit process together that they did not need additional parking. Mayor Fullmer also stated that she has been in touch with their management company to get data, and if Ms. Camerson would like to speak to them, she will connect her to them. Mayor Fullmer said she will follow up with Ms. Cameron as information comes forward.
Resident Tyler Haroldsen, living in the Edgewater subdivision, wanted to clear up a rumor he had heard and apologized to the council. Mayor Fullmer responded that they have been proactively working to address the issues at the intersection in which a Vineyard resident was killed in October of 2023. Mr. Haroldsen suggested some ways to fix the problem.
Ms. Cornelius expressed concern that the attendees in the hall were not able to hear and reiterated that she would like the meeting cancelled.
Resident Parker Edwards expressed concern regarding the meeting agenda noticing. He also expressed concern regarding social media posts.
Resident Ann Taylor expressed concern regarding the timing of the meeting, the space, and items on the agenda.
Mayor Fullmer asked Mr. Edwards to clarify the social media posts he was referring to.
Mr. Edwards came back up to the podium and briefly shared his concern. Mayor Fullmer responded that he can speak with Councilmember Amber Rasmussen in a private conversation.
Resident Mike Cox commented that he had asked the council members questions the week before and would still like to know the answer.
Mayor Fullmer closed the public comments.   4.     Mayor and COUNCILMEMBERS’ REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS   5.     STAFF, COMMISSION, and committee REPORTS                                                                                                          (3 minutes each) 5.1  City Manager Eric Ellis
City Manager Eric Ellis gave updates on each department.   6.     CONSENT ITEMS 6.1  Approval of the December 6, 2023, City Council Meeting Minutes 6.2  Approval of Bicycle Advisory Commission Amendments (Ordinance 2023-31) 6.3  Vineyard Grove Park Slide Hill – Site Design 6.4  Vineyard Grove Park Slide Hill – Contraction Bid Award (Resolution 2023-57) 6.5  Adding Street Lights to Main & Center St. 6.6  The Yard Plat ‘F’ Subdivision 6.7  Municipal Code Amendment for Appointment and Removal of City Officers (Ordinance 2023-32) 6.8  Approval of Economic Strategy Contract Extensions (Resolution 2023-60) 6.9  Vineyard City Seal (Resolution 2023-52)
Mayor Fullmer stated that they are removing consent item 6.7. Councilmember Mardi Sifuentes asked for an explanation on consent item 6.8.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesley explained consent item 6.8 regarding economic development.
Mayor Fullmer asked the council if anyone wanted consent item 6.2 removed for further discussion. Councilmember Sifuentes responded yes.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER CRISTY WELSH MOVED TO APPROVE THE CONSENT ITEMS AS PRESENTED WITH THE REMOVAL OF ITEMS 6.2 AND 6.7. COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer presented consent item 6.2 (Approval of Bicycle Advisory Commission) and responded to Mrs. Evans’ questions about changes.
Mrs. Evans asked how someone not living in Vineyard knows what Vineyard needs. Mayor Fullmer responded that the commission wanted to have more expertise when it came to planning.
Bicycle Advisory Commissioner Caden Rhoton approached the podium and responded to Mrs. Evans’ concerns.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM 6.2, BICYCLE ADVISORY COMMISSION AMENDMENTS ORDINANCE 2023-31. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesley presented consent item 6.7, Municipal Code Amendment for Appointment and Removal of City Officers (Ordinance 2023-32). He explained the amendment in detail. Councilmember Sifuentes had questions regarding the wording and a discussion ensued.
Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concern regarding the changes and requested moving it to a different week. Mayor Fullmer responded, and a discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MADE A MOTION TO POSTPONE THE VOTE ON MUNICIPAL CODE AMENDMENT FOR APPOINTMENT AND REMOVAL OF CITY OFFICERS TO HAVE THE MAYOR HELP HER FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE. NO SECOND MOTION WAS MADE AND THE MOTION DID NOT PASS.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked that the attendees be respectful during this time.
Mr. Blakesley, for point of order, clarified that there was no second on Councilmember Sifuentes’ motion.
Mayor Fullmer stated that Councilmember Sifuentes made a motion to continue the item and since no second motion was made the motion did not pass. She welcomed people to come to the podium if they wished to speak on consent item 6.7.
Jacob Holdaway expressed his concerns regarding having four elected officials to make a vote instead of three. Mayor Fullmer responded to his concerns and a discussion ensued responded.
Mr. Blakesley called for a point of order. He explained that on every item on the agenda there would be an opportunity for them to come to the microphone and make comments. He stated that the sheriff would remove anyone talking over a commenter or interrupting the council.
Resident David Lauret read the state code regarding city managers. Mr. Lauret expressed concern about enacting the amendment. Mr. Blakesley responded, and a discussion ensued.
Jacob Holdaway further expressed concern. Mr. Blakesley responded that the future council has the same rights that the current council has. Mayor Fullmer and Councilmember Sifuentes responded, and a discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer stated they were closing public comments and went into deliberations with the council.
Resident Darlene Price thanked Councilmember Sifuentes.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKED MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM 6.7, UNDERSTANDING THE NEW COUNCIL CAN REVERSE THIS MOTION IN TWO WEEKS. COUNCILMEMBER WELSH SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ONE NAY.  7.     Appointments 7.1  Planning Commission No new appointments were made.   8.   Presentations/recognitions/awards/PROCLAMATIONS No items were submitted.   9.     BUSINESS ITEMS 9.1  PUBLIC HEARING – Inland Port (The Public Hearing may be continued to a later date) City Attorney Jayme Blakesley will present a proposal for the creation of one Utah Inland Port Authority project area to allow for public input on (i) whether the requested service (described below) is needed in the area of the Proposed Project Area, (ii) whether the service should be provided by the City or the Proposed Project Area, and (iii) all other matters relating to the Proposed Project Area.
Executive Director of the Inland Port Authority, Ben Hart, gave a presentation about the inland port authority and what the purpose is.
Mayor Fullmer commented that she was excited to learn what the inland port is and did not plan on holding a public hearing tonight and wanted an opportunity for the council to learn about it. Mrs. Fullmer said she wanted to have more understanding of what an inland port was.
Mr. Hart continued with the presentation. A discussion ensued.
Mr. Blakesley pointed out that since the item was noticed for a public hearing, a motion to table would need to be made.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO TABLE BUSINESS ITEM 9.1 TO THE PLEASURE OF THE NEW COUNCIL WHEN THEY COME IN. COUNCILMEMBER WELSH SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   9.2  DISCUSSION AND ACTION- East Geneva Right-of-way and Land Donation and Development Agreement (Resolution 2023-51) (A Public Hearing was held for this item during the Joint Planning Commission and City Council meeting December 6, 2023.) City Attorney Jayme Blakesley will present a request for approval of a right-of-way and land donation and development agreement between Vineyard City, Utah, The Vineyard Redevelopment Agency, and Anderson Geneva, LLC, for the following parcel numbers: 17:019:0047, 38:437:0001, 38:437:0002, 17:022:0006, and 46:870:0004. The Mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution. (This item was continued from the December 6, 2023, City Council Meeting.)
Mr. Blakesley introduced item 9.2 and explained that this item accomplishes two different things, the Land Donation, and the Development Agreement. Mayor Fullmer asked about stipulation and a discussion ensued.
Pete Evans with Flagborough explained that they did not put the cemetery in because they did not know where it would go, but in good faith would add one.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO APPROVE THE TWO AGREEMENTS, LAND DONATION AND THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH ANDERSON GENEVA LLC WITH THE ADDITION AS NOTED BY THE OWNER. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   9.3  DISCUSSION AND ACTION – First Amendment to Geneva West Side Property Land Donation and Development Agreement (Resolution 2023-55) City Attorney Jayme Blakesley will present a first amendment to the Geneva West Side Property Agreement. The Mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution.
Mr. Blakesley introduced item 9.3. He explained the four things that it primarily does: separates the tax increment collection period into two phases, it authorizes the Redevelopment Agency Board (RDA) to reimburse the developer for parking costs, the developer donates the Lake Promenade property to the city, and the developer donates public roadways throughout the project. He explained why a public hearing was held on the first agreement and not on this amendment.
Resident Tiffany Stevens asked for clarification on Redevelopment Agency Board (RDA) funds used, how much and if item can be tabled for more time.  Mr. Blakesley responded how RDA funds are used to reimburse and explained tax revenues.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked to summarize. Mr. Blakesley responded, and a discussion ensued.
Ms. Stevens asked about triggering and how public hearings are noticed. Mr. Blakesley responded that notices are published on the city website and the Utah Public Notice website. Councilmember Sifuentes commented that subscribing to receive notices on the website is very helpful. Ms. Stevens then expressed her concerns regarding the tone of the meeting.
Mr. Holdaway commented on the cultural shift with the election. He mentioned the RDA being public money, Mr. Blakesley responded that it is complicated and RDA funds are committed at different times and gave an explanation about the funds. Mr. Holdaway expressed his concern about the large sum of money and the importance of RDA meetings.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO APPROVE REQUESTED FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE LAND DONATION AND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AS DESCRIBED IN THE ATTACHED RESOLUTION AS DISCUSSION. COUNCILMEMBER WELSH SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.          9.4  DISCUSSION AND ACTION - Shade Sails Parks and Recreation Director Brian Vawdrey will present an option for shade sails on certain park equipment. The mayor and City Council will take appropriate action.
Parks and Recreation Director Brian Vawdrey presented the final design for the shade sails.
Councilmember Welsh asked if the Arts, Recreation, Cultural, and Heritage Commission (ARCH) approved the blue color for the sails. She understood that ARCH recommended gray to match the building.
ARCH Commission member, Sherrie Kay Miller approached the podium and stated that the commission had suggested they wanted gray. Councilmember Welsh responded they wanted to match the building. A discussion ensued.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked for confirmation if color choice makes a difference.
Rob Donigan with Blue Line Design approached the podium and stated he could answer questions. Councilmember Sifuentes asked if the color of the shade affected the temperature of the shade below. He stated that it is more for visual purposes than influencing the shade and the shade can be any color with no price difference. Mr. Vawdrey explained that the blue color was due to the park considered the “blue park.” Councilmember Welsh suggested they use the color the ARCH Commission recommended.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER WELSH MOVED TO APPROVE THE SHADFE SAIL EQUIPMENT AT PENNY SPRINGS AND GROVE PARK AND CONFIRM WITH THE ARTS, RECREATION, CULTURE, AND HERITAGE COMMISSION (ARCH) FOR THE COLOR. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer stated that there would be a 10-minute break.   9.5  PUBLIC HEARING – FY 24 Budget Amendments (Resolution 2023-56) Finance Director David Mortensen will present proposed amendments to the Fiscal Year 2023-2024 Budget Amendment #2. The Mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:48 PM. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Finance Director David Mortensen gave a presentation on the FY 2023-2024 Budget Amendments. He shared the adjustments made as requested.
Mayor Fullmer asked about the additional cost for a full-time employee in the Planning Department. Development Director Morgan Brim responded, and explained what the costs could be.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:51 PM. COUNCILMEMBER WELSH SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer stated that she would like the council to add to the budget for a senior planner in the Planning Department. Mr. Mortensen responded that further analysis would be needed and could not give an answer right away. A discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER WELSH MOVED TO APPROVE THE VINEYARD CITY FISCAL YEAR 2023-2024 BUDGET AMENDMENT #2 AS PRESENTED BY STAFF. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   9.6  PUBLIC HEARING – Consolidated Fee Schedule Amendment (Resolution 2023-53) Finance Director David Mortensen will present proposed amendments to the Consolidated Fee Schedule. The Mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 8:53 PM. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Mortensen gave a presentation on the Consolidated Fee Schedule changes.
Councilmember Welsh asked how often residents were coming in to renew permits. Mr. Brim responded about 5-10 per year.
Resident Chip Price asked if it was possible to do permit renewals. Mr. Brim responded they would have to check with the vendor but could be possible. Councilmember Sifuentes commented that she wasn’t sure that would work because of the color of the permit. A discussion ensued.
Mr. Mortensen continued with the presentation.
Mr. Brim wanted to clarify regarding the Planning Commission special meeting administrative fee. He stated that it would take a quorum to decide if a special meeting was necessary.
The presentation continued.
Regarding “barricade cost” in the presentation, Mayor Fullmer asked Mr. Mortensen about who it pertained to. Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour responded it pertained to special events in the city, or emergency closures. A discussion ensued.
Resident Janae Riley asked a question regarding requesting a streetlight on her road. Mr. Ghandour responded that the city council can waive the fee or reduce the cost. A discussion ensued.
Motion:COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:12 PM. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO ADOPT BY RESOLUTION THE AMENDED CONSOLIDATED FEE SCHEDULE AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.    9.7  PUBLIC HEARING – Forge Development Agreement (Resolution 2023-54) Community Development Director Morgan Brim will present the Forge Development Agreement. Dakota Pacific is proposing a development agreement for The Forge property. The property is located at 769 N Ingot Road Vineyard, UT 84059, and is zoned within The Forge Special Purpose Zoning District. Parcel IDs: 39:258:0001 through 39:258:0007.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:13 PM. COUNCILMEMBER WELSH SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Brim introduced the Forge and went over items in the agreement and a discussion ensued.
Steve Borup, Director of Development with Dakota Pacific gave an overview of their general plan for the Forge development.
Resident Jeff Porter asked how many residents it would allow and if there was a multi-level parking structure. Mr. Brim responded to his question.
Resident Barbara Porter asked how many parking spaces are being assigned. Mr. Borup responded that it is based on occupancy and there are two different parking structures and detailed how many cars per units/bedrooms. A discussion ensued.
Ms. Riley commented that she was excited to get new places in Vineyard and expressed her concerns about parking and if she isn’t a resident of the Forge, she can walk through it.
Planning Commission Chair Bryce Brady commented that they spoke about the anchor being regionally significant in their last Planning Commission meeting. He expressed concern about some language in the plan didn’t align with what they had discussed. Mayor Fullmer asked for clarification and a discussion ensued.
Ms. Evans asked if a Public Infrastructure District (PID) had to be developed before a development agreement is ratified. She was under the impression that this would go through the RDA. Mr. Blakesley responded that any landowner can petition the city to create a PID and a discussion ensued.
Resident Sarah Williams asked how many parking spots there were for the 1100 units. Mayor Fullmer responded that there is a code for how many spots are required. Mr. Brim responded that they have to submit a site plan and then would be analyzed.
Resident Chip Price asked if this was a request to change the zoning. Mr. Brim responded that the zoning is open-ended with 1/3 of the square footage dedicated to residential parking. Mr. Price appreciated the due diligence the Forge is doing for parking and expressed concerns if we don’t make changes.
Resident Shawn Herring asked if there was a percentage mix of the 1100 units, rental to owned. Mr. Borup responded, said there is an incentive to own it and explained how they might go about that. A discussion ensued.
Resident Kimberly Olsen, living in Lake Front expressed her concerns about people “cramming into housing” because it’s fun. Mayor Fullmer wanted to clarify that Vineyard has sufficient parking, manage parking, and correct policing. A discussion ensued.
Resident Barbara Porter commented that her experience with Affordable Housing was great.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 9:55 PM. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer addressed the questions she heard during the public hearing. She asked Mr. Borup to clarify the parking.
Mr. Borup stated that parking would be 100% permitted. He explained that every stall would have a permit associated with it and discussed what would eventually happen as time went on. Councilmember Sifuentes requested not to use tandem parking and a discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer asked the council if they had any commentary or questions regarding the “for sale” units and the Affordable Housing units.
Councilmember Rasmussen commented that she pushed to get as many Affordable Housing units as she could. Mr. Brim responded that there is a designated 60% Area Median Income (AMI) set aside for firefighters, teachers, etc. Mr. Brim asked Mr. Borup to talk about market rate. Mr. Borup further explained how the developer wants to contribute and spoke about where they would be withing the community. Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the number of units and a discussion ensued.
Resident Elizabeth Holdaway asked for clarification on cap and the number if units. Mr. Borup stated that it would only be 1100 units. Mr. Brim explained there is no cap in the current zoning code and a discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer stated that her question was not answered. Mr. Brim explained what the development agreement would do, and a discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer addressed the question regarding parking with a complex for RDA funds on the site. She stated that there is always a potential for people to come with an application and discussed how that would be handled.
Mayor Fullmer asked if Exhibit F was addressed that it was not regionally significant to Planning Commission Chair Bryce Brady. Mr. Brim responded what they would do from a staff viewpoint with the text. A discussion ensued.
Mr. Blakesley recommended a revision to the text and discussed what the line said and suggested what it could say.
Mr. Borup stated he was not comfortable with the suggestion from Mr. Blakesley. He explained his reasons behind it. Mayor Fullmer made some recommendations. Mr. Blakesley gave legal advice and a discussion ensued with Mr. Brady and the language written.
Mayor Fullmer asked the council to decide if it was “regionally significant.” A discussion ensued regarding the term and the possibility of issues.
Mayor Fullmer asked Mr. Borup if there was any opportunity to expand green space along the belt on Geneva Road. Mr. Borup responded that he understood the desire. He stated that they were open to expanding it if a middle ground could be found. A discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer asked the council if they felt good about the following: no tandem parking, remove PID language, strike Exhibit F section 4.4 with the appeal process to go back to city council with option on land. Mr. Brim asked for clarification on acreage size.
Mr. Blakesley read what the motion would be.
Mr. Borup clarified where tandem parking could possibly go. Councilmember Sifuentes expressed concern about tandem parking counting towards the tenant parking. A discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO APPROVE RESOLUTION 2023-54 DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE FORGE WITH THE NOTED ADDITIONS AS PROPOSED BY OUR LEGAL COUNCIL:   o   STRIKE SECTION 4.4STRIKE EXHIBIT F AND LAST SENTENCE OF SECTION 1.2.39LANGUAGE REMAINS ABOUT PC APPROVAL OF PROPOSED REGIONALLY SIGNIFICANT ENTERTAINMENT ANCHOR; ADD DEVELOPER RIGHT TO APPEAL PC DECISION TO CITY COUNCIL IF PC DENIES.NO TANDEM PARKING THAT COUNTS TOWARD PARKING MINIMUMS.WHEN PARKING LOT IS CONSTRUCTED AT THE PARK, PARKING LOT SHALL BE SHARED BETWEEN COMMERCIAL AND PARK USER. IF SHARED PARKING FREES UP PARK SPACE, CITY SHALL HAVE OPTION TO ACQUIRE THAT PROPERTY. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   9.8    PUBLIC HEARING – East District: The Creation of Public Infrastructure District (Resolution 2023-58) City Attorney Jayme Blakesly will present the proposed creation of five Public Infrastructure Districts (the “Proposed Districts”) and to allow for public input on (i) whether the requested service (described below) is needed in the area of the Proposed Districts, (ii) whether the service should be provided by the City or the Proposed Districts, and (iii) all other matters relating to the Proposed Districts.
Mr. Blakesley gave a presentation on items 9.8 and 9.9.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 11:02 PM. COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS, FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Ms. Evans asked if a PID is developed will it be tax exempt. Mr. Blakesley responded that a PID is a government entity and explained how it works as an entity and how it works with the RDA. Ms. Evans asked a question about defaulting. Mr. Blakesley responded that if a PID defaults, the city has no financial obligation. Mac Woodbury and Pete Evans with Flagborough responded to Ms. Evans’ concerns and a discussion ensued.
Mr. Herring asked if the council feels the PID’s are in the best interest of the city. Mr. Blakesley responded the city council will want to hear from everybody. Mr.  Herring expressed concern about the PID’s and the timing of them being on the agenda right now.
Mr. Ryan Holdaway expressed concerns about the timing of the PID’s on the agenda and who will assume risk.
Mr. Jake Holdaway commented that this is the first time he has heard about this item. He expressed concerns about the developer creating a public entity and what it would entail. Mr. Woodbury and Mr. Evans responded to Mr. Holdaway’s concerns and a discussion ensued.
Mr. Price expressed concern about not understanding what a PID was. Councilmember Sifuentes responded with her understanding of what a PID was. Mr. Price further expressed his concerns and a discussion ensued.
Mr. Jake Holdaway commented about his concerns with the PID’s and government money.
Ms. Williams asked what the risks and rewards were.
Nate Hutchinson with Flagborough answered Ms. Willams stating he thinks its lack of understanding and explained what they were going to do with the PID’s. Mr. Hutchinson stated that sitting down with the citizens and sharing what they’ve been working on will be very helpful. He shared that they have worked with previous mayors and city council members for the last 10-11 years and nothing has been done in the dark. Mr. Hutchinson stated that everything has been done in a public meeting. He also said that in no way, can anyone in the city be responsible for their PID. Mr. Evans commented on why PID’s were designed.
Resident Jeff Thompson asked the council if they had to vote tonight.
Mr. Ryan Holdaway commented that he appreciated the information about the PID’s. He expressed his concerns about creating the PID’s right now.
Mr. Evans commented that what Mr. Hutchinson said was right, and that PID’s were created to reduce the cost of infrastructure and explained why.
Mr. Lauret commented that he appreciated the discussion and asked if the land would be leased or sold. He expressed his concerns about selling to a big box user and the consequences.
Mr.Woodbury responded to Mr. Lauret’s concerns regarding whether they sold to a big box user or other commercial users. He stated that the commercial users value property based on that income. Mr. Woodbury said that it can fall apart when an individual home buyer is comparing a $500,000 home to another $500,000 home. He said a large user is going to want to have a say over the PID.
Jeff Olsen asked again if the council needed an answer tonight.
Mr. Hutchinson commented that the timing of interest rates is an incentive. He stated that there is already twenty million dollars of infrastructure in, and they are about to break ground on twenty-five million dollars of the park. Mr. Hutchinson said they want to borrow money at a cheaper interest rate to put in the PID.
Sherrie Kaye Miller expressed her concerns to have more time to understand.
Resident Clayton Prete expressed his concern about the timing and would like more time.
Mr. Jake Holdaway expressed his concern about the processes in place.
Ms. Cameron asked if there were codes for the PID’s. Mr. Blakesley responded that there is no land use authority granted with a PID.
Resident Geoffrey Wixom asked if the city had to give up anything for the PID’s. Mr. Blakesley responded that it doesn’t change the funding and finance options for the city. A discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT 12:02 PM. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS, FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer addressed comments about due government process and stated that they were following all of the processes correctly.
Councilmember Sifuentes read a statement about PID’s, asking the question: if you have a PID on a site and bond for infrastructure, what’s to stop that from happening again? Mr. Evans responded that statutorily there is a maximum mil rate that can be levied on any property as part of the PID. Councilmember Sifuentes asked for clarification regarding PID’s being different from a special district and not being tied to a local district once permission is given. Mr. Evans responded that it was a true statement and that the reason special districts need to be tied to governmental oversight and representation is due to it being a general tax on everyone in that area, and it’s a property tax that doesn’t go away. He stated that in the proposed PID on the governing documents there is no non-represented tax entity. Mr. Evans responded to a question regarding rentals and taxes within a PID.
Councilmember Sifuentes asked if there was a meeting at the end of the month. Mayor Fullmer responded that there was. Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to make a motion to push the item to the next council meeting.
Mr. Evans stated he would be happy to have a meeting with citizens before the next council meeting to educate about the PID’s.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CONTINUE RESOLUTION 2023-58 TO DECEMBER 27, 2023, COUNCIL MEETING. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION.  MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.  9.9    PUBLIC HEARING – West District: The Creation of Public Infrastructure District (Resolution 2023-59) City Attorney Jayme Blakesly will present the proposed creation of five Public Infrastructure Districts (the “Proposed Districts”) and to allow for public input on (i) whether the requested service (described below) is needed in the area of the Proposed Districts, (ii) whether the service should be provided by the City or the Proposed Districts, and (iii) all other matters relating to the Proposed Districts.
Mr. Herring asked about meeting protocol. Mr. Blakesley responded that the meeting could go on the next day. Mr. Herring asked about the Inland Port item and Mayor Fullmer responded that tonight was just a presentation to understand it.
Resident Janae Riley expressed her concerns with the agenda process and items being removed after they have been posted. Councilmember Sifuentes asked if these were regarding documents on the website. She let Ms. Riley know that the documents were indeed still online and had not been removed. Ms. Riley expressed her concerns with due process and Mayor Fullmer responded that the city follows the state statute.
Resident Elizabeth Holdaway commented she would like more time for the PID’s and was grateful they continued the item. Ms. Holdaway asked about attendance at city council meetings. She expressed her concern about having more time to understand items on the agenda.
Mr. Ryan Holdaway asked what the difference was between the East and West District. He also expressed concern about this time of year being busy and needing more time to understand the PID’s. Mr. Blakesley explained the difference between the districts.
Mr. Jake Holdaway expressed concern about the timing of the item and how it came to be on the agenda at this time.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE SECONED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CONTINUE RESOLUTION 2023-59 TO THE DECEMBER 27, 2023, CITY COUNCIL MEETING. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.    9.10   DISCUSSION – Lease Agreement for The Promenade Aquatics Facility City Attorney Jayme Blakesley will lead discussion about the lease agreement for the Promenade Aquatics Facility. No action will be taken at this time.
Mayor Fullmer asked the council to continue item 9.10 to the next meeting.
Motion:COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CONTINUE ITEM 9.10 TO THE DECEMBER 27, 2023, CITY COUNCIL MEETING. COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE SECONED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.   10.CLOSED SESSION No closed session was held.     11.ADJOURNMENT Meeting adjourned at 12:23 AM, December 14, 2023.     MINUTES APPROVED ON:    December 13, 2023             CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:   /s/ Heidi Jackman HEIDI JACKMAN, DEPUTY RECORDER
It is Wednesday, December 13th. The time is 6:00 PM. I'm going to go ahead and call our Vineyard City Council session to order. I 00:00:00
am going to ask. 00:00:05
If Ties will read this in the Pledge of Allegiance and an invocation, all right. 00:00:12
Please stand. 00:00:18
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:00:22
Thank you. 00:00:35
The most gracious Father in Heaven would give you thanks for this day. 00:00:37
We're thankful for this fine land that we live in, for the freedom that we have. We ask that blessing to be upon those who protect 00:00:47
us. 00:00:50
Our fire. Our police. 00:00:54
Soldiers, theremen, whoever they may be. 00:00:57
We give you thanks for all the blessing that is bestowed upon us on this fine day when we say it in Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:01:00
All right. We're going to go ahead and start with our. 00:01:07
Canvassing of our municipal 2023 election results and Pamela Spencer, our recorder, is going to. 00:01:13
Present the results of the election. 00:01:20
Well, there we go. Swears that off. Sorry. OK, we finally got them. 00:01:28
Few minutes ago. 00:01:37
I'm going to read the statistics that are up there. 00:01:39
So, so some of the things we have to include in the report for the Board of Canvassers. 00:01:58
Is the voter turn out? 00:02:04
And so, so bear with me as this is I just received this information, so we had 28.5% voter turn out. 00:02:07
Over from 6000 plus registered voters. That's that's how many actually returned their ballots. 00:02:17
So. 00:02:24
Number of counted ballots with 1779 number of. 00:02:27
In person ballots, those are in the mailbox or in their Dropbox that they have. In person were 16. 00:02:33
Nine that returned electronically from those that are overseas. 00:02:40
Or disabled. Number of counted ballots provisionally meaning they hadn't registered to vote yet was one. 00:02:44
So the total number of ballots counted was 1805. 00:02:52
Does the and they and the counties put this together for us and it does say that it matches? 00:02:57
Their account given the vote. 00:03:02
So then the next piece is any if there were any challenged or uncounted ballots and the statistics for those. 00:03:05
The number of the envelopes with signatures that did not match the voters signature was 34. 00:03:13
And just a brief explanation on. 00:03:20
A lot of times that somebody signing the wrong envelope. 00:03:23
So. So their name isn't on that envelope and that's and but they do send those back and and try to gather at the signatures from 00:03:27
from them. Number of unsigned envelopes was five. Same thing with that they will reach out to those voters and ask them to return 00:03:33
the signature. 00:03:40
Total number of ballots that were. 00:03:47
Meaning there was something wrong with the ballot extra pen mark or something that got kicked out. And so they have to what they 00:03:50
did cure them and and look at them and correct them and that. 00:03:57
3921 of those they were not able to use at all. 00:04:05
So it says 53.8% of curable ballots that were not cured. Total number of ballots. 00:04:09
Where the voters submitted a disability affidavit, there weren't David. There weren't. 00:04:17
So for the next section, rejected ballot statistics that could not. Those are the ones that cannot be cured, which is what I just 00:04:22
explained The number of those ballots is. 00:04:27
Were returned after the postmark date. 00:04:33
There were seven. 00:04:36
Umm, there weren't any for non curable reasons. There were seven. So there were seven total that were not able to be be counted, 00:04:38
which is which is actually really good. 00:04:43
So that's I feel like that's really good provisional ballots statistics you you had the one ballot that they mentioned already. 00:04:48
Sorry. OK. And so that is the end. 00:04:57
Of the actual report, how we've gone. 00:05:03
Because we do this by ranked choice voting. 00:05:06
Oh, is it not going to come? 00:05:10
Hold on, I might have to drag it over. 00:05:13
And if I do that, oh wait, there it is. 00:05:16
Ha. Oh, I love culture. OK, let you guys watch these rounds that we're done. 00:05:19
At one point in time, we did have to. 00:05:25
Do a coin toss if I can say that because in one of the rounds they had a tie vote. 00:05:28
For. 00:05:34
Needed to be eliminated in that round. And so that was done and they, the county did a recount. And that's why I'm asking you to 00:05:35
certify this election tonight. There's your first seat. 00:05:41
And then the second seat. 00:05:48
And here's your second seat. So you have. 00:05:55
Jacob Holdaway and Sarah Cameron are your. 00:06:03
Newly elected? 00:06:08
Council members, and I just am requesting that you certify the election results that you just given. All right, Council, please 00:06:09
look over the results. Do you have any questions for Pam at this time? 00:06:16
OK, if not, I just need a motion. 00:06:26
Present. 00:06:29
Second First by ties, second by AM. 00:06:31
Please do a local. This is done by roll call. Amber, I, yay Marty. Yay, Christy. Excellent. As new people step forward to serve, 00:06:36
let's go ahead and give them a round of applause. 00:06:43
Thank you. 00:06:58
All right. We also have to say goodbye to people that have come before them. And I wanted to there. There are no words except it 00:06:59
was a privilege and an honor to serve with you guys. Obviously your work's not done. You're not done until you're done. But we 00:07:06
just wanted to say thank you and let you say a few words. 00:07:13
Today, so we have a few things for you. 00:07:21
There you go. You need to actually keep this right here. 00:07:28
Goodness. 00:07:38
OK. And then we have another gift. 00:07:40
Let's see. I'll talk to the microphone. 00:07:42
It takes a lot of time and dedication and a lot of love to serve in a community. It takes a lot of work and advocacy, and I 00:07:45
couldn't really think of a way to describe what that looks like or feels like. 00:07:51
Except for an hourglass. And so I want you to. I wanted to present you with this hourglass, and I thought it was really an 00:07:59
interesting thing when I thought about both of you, that a lot of your stories actually start with trees. 00:08:06
In this community. 00:08:13
And a lot of love for the community and you guys are pillars in the community and so there's little pendants inside there that 00:08:14
represent what you've given back to our community and then you also. 00:08:19
Get these plaques that talk about the time that you've been here. Anyway, we appreciate you and just another round of applause for 00:08:25
all the work and dedication. 00:08:30
All right. So I'm going to give you a little bit of time to say something at this meeting. So whoever wants to go first. 00:08:43
Ladies first. 00:08:51
I am just so grateful for the time I've had to serve this community. 00:08:55
It's been 8 years actually. 00:09:05
It's been, I don't know that I would have gotten involved in the community the way I have here if it wasn't for a Vineyard and 00:09:09
what they're doing, What we're doing here in Vineyard is so uniquely special and. 00:09:15
Tice actually was one of the first residents that helped me see the potential and vineyard because like most residents when I 00:09:23
moved here. 00:09:27
I didn't know what was what was happening in Vineyard and I moved here in 2014 when there was. 00:09:32
Probably most of you didn't even live here at that point. 00:09:38
And in my first council meeting, I went to another resident, Tice. 00:09:41
Had gotten really involved and explained to me, you know, we were very many residents at the meeting and explained to me what was 00:09:47
happening in Vineyard and. 00:09:51
I was shocked and then excited at the opportunities and I appreciate. 00:09:58
Watching Tice, you know, serve and then get involved and eventually run for council and he's done incredible things. I'm so 00:10:04
grateful to you as a friend and a mentor and. 00:10:10
A companion in this journey. 00:10:17
As well as all the council members I've served with before this and. 00:10:20
Planning commissioners over the years and our incredible staff who has taught me so much, I am so grateful for. 00:10:25
The knowledge I get to take with me of stuff that I. 00:10:36
Knew about. 00:10:40
That to me is so valuable and I just am truly grateful and staff have someone to say I've lived there before, many of the 00:10:42
residents I've lived here before. 00:10:47
Most of the staff in this room so separate Pam and Sullivan. 00:10:52
Seeing all of you guys come and serve in our community. 00:10:57
It's just. 00:11:02
One of the the best things I've ever done and. 00:11:05
I've enjoyed what we've built here together. There's nothing I enjoy better than being a member of an awesome team. 00:11:09
And the team at Vineyard is incredible. 00:11:17
I'm just so grateful for the time I've had and. 00:11:22
And to all those who serve after me. 00:11:25
And pray that you will serve. 00:11:28
Thank you. 00:11:30
You can have a great to clap for you and tell me different type. 00:11:31
I thought the hourglass was appropriate. 00:11:35
Since I'm the old man. 00:11:38
I never intended on staying for eight years. 00:11:43
I've spent a majority of my life. 00:11:48
And service. 00:11:52
And. 00:11:54
I haven't found a way to get away from it. 00:11:57
Right now I'm trying to dodge my ecclesiastical authorities. Who found I'm. 00:12:00
Retiring. 00:12:05
My wife has allocated my future time. 00:12:09
Since I have had to ignore her for most of my life. 00:12:13
I've enjoyed this immensely. 00:12:17
I came here not looking for this job. 00:12:19
I tried to not run again, and yet I was talking to running again and this time I refused to be talked into running again and I 00:12:22
didn't. 00:12:26
And I'm quite happy with the party, with what I've done. 00:12:31
I'm proud of the efforts that. 00:12:36
I am thrilled with the association I've had. 00:12:39
With my fellow Council members of this Council and the two previous councils. 00:12:42
They were all sterling individuals who served well and I appreciated their efforts and. 00:12:47
And I learned from them. 00:12:52
I've also served 2 mayors which were equally. 00:12:55
Fabulous in their efforts in their own ways. 00:12:59
I leave with things unfinished that I started, but that's normal. 00:13:05
But I'll leave it up to some of the members of the council to carry on doing the. 00:13:10
That we've begun. 00:13:16
I leave it to Flagborough to finish downtown that I said that I wanted. 00:13:18
And I. 00:13:23
But I also must know I'm just one member of five. 00:13:26
It takes a majority of the people who sit up here to make. 00:13:31
So I can't take credit for any decision. 00:13:36
And at the same time when you serve up here. 00:13:39
You have to. 00:13:42
To do that dirty word these days. And that's compromised because you can't get your way. 00:13:44
It's basically almost impossible for one person up here. 00:13:49
To demand cajole or whatever you wish to use to get your choice. 00:13:54
You have to get what you can and. 00:14:00
Either vote to support that compromise or stand your ground. 00:14:03
Vote No. 00:14:07
I had to vote no very often. 00:14:10
All the decisions of a major proportion that have been done by this council and the previous councils that I've been on. 00:14:12
Have been done by a majority. 00:14:18
And I think that's. 00:14:22
It says something about the governance of this group. 00:14:25
Local government is the most basic form of democracy. 00:14:29
I had the. 00:14:34
One of my jobs to. 00:14:36
Immigrants. 00:14:38
The American citizenship course, so they could get their citizenship. 00:14:40
And I used to hammer them hard that they had to participate. 00:14:45
Or they would live in a country much like the one they had fled. 00:14:49
Democracy is a precious thing. 00:14:54
And it's very fragile. 00:14:58
I do not say this to demean the new members. 00:15:03
But it's unfortunate that. 00:15:06
Only voted for them at 28%. 00:15:08
They des. 00:15:11
And all of. 00:15:15
Who have? 00:15:18
Should not abstain from doing this again. 00:15:20
In my 8 years of serving the average group in this room. 00:15:25
Was. 00:15:29
And that's wrong. 00:15:32
When I would vote for a budget. 00:15:34
Mary, a question was ever raised. 00:15:37
So it's rather difficult to do this job when people don't participate. 00:15:42
I hope you support the new council better than you have supported this. 00:15:48
I thank you for your. 00:15:55
And for your efforts to build this community, which I think is a fabulous community. 00:15:58
It's founded on good precepts. 00:16:04
Thank you. 00:16:08
All right. 00:16:10
Thank you so much again for your service and we welcome our new members and I. We've got a long agenda, so I'm going to pop right 00:16:21
into this. Our next thing is we're going to swear in one of our new Planning Commission members, Nathan Steele, if you would come 00:16:27
on up, I don't see Anthony Jenkins here. 00:16:32
We did a little farewell for him online, but he also has a plaque for serving on the Planning Commission for so long and touching 00:16:38
our city as well, so we'll make sure he gets that. 00:16:43
Welcome. Come on up. Follow. 00:16:49
Right. 00:16:52
I say your name. I need to feel having been appointed to the Planning Commission, have you been appointed Planning Commission? 00:16:58
That I will support. 00:17:06
That I will support Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of 00:17:11
Utah, and the Constitution of the State of Utah, and that I will discharge the duties of my office, and that I will discharge the 00:17:16
duties of my office with fidelity. 00:17:22
Congratulations. 00:17:28
Thank you so much for being here and for your willingness to serve. We really appreciate it. 00:17:35
All right. 00:17:40
Nathan, I don't know if you want to say a few words and introduce yourself to the community before I go into public comments. 00:17:45
Sure, I'll be brief. Come on. I appreciate overwhelming support of everyone coming out for me. Very generous. 00:17:51
But really, I'm just I worked for over 10 years and. 00:17:58
Urban planning, economic development and everything in between and I'm just so excited to continue doing that here in Vineyard. I 00:18:02
love this community and love this home and want to keep working to make it a wonderful home for everybody. Awesome. Thank you for 00:18:07
the opportunity. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. 00:18:12
All right. We'll go ahead and move into public comments. This is to address anything that is not currently on the agenda. If you 00:18:21
want to come up, come to the podium, state your name where you're from and then share your comment with us and also if you have a 00:18:27
similar comment to somebody before you. 00:18:33
And you agree with their comment, you may raise your hand. But to keep business moving along, please do not get up and repeat the 00:18:39
comment. Just raise your hand, all right. If you have a comment, come on up, state your name. 00:18:44
I still need you to be recorded. I'm sorry. Yeah. 00:18:52
Come on up. 00:18:58
So I'm Chris. Chris Price. We're not allowed to talk about the stuff that's on yes. And you live in Vineyard in Providence, OK. 00:19:00
Yes, at that time. You can raise your hand and ask to speak at that time. But this is about public comments to be addressed for 00:19:09
things that are not on the agenda. 00:19:13
OK. Thank. 00:19:18
Hi, David Larae, President Midard. I would like to ask that your consent item number 697 be to be discussed publicly. 00:19:21
I think there's a lot of what could be done there. OK, thank you. Would the council feel, do you want to discuss 6.7? OK, Heidi, 00:19:31
the commentary about 6.7 that we were going to read during public comment, we will now refrain and take that agenda item off. 00:19:39
OK. 00:19:48
Resident OK. 00:19:54
Just want to start off with something positive like I always try to do. Just want to say thank you once again for all the holiday 00:19:57
decorations I really enjoy. 00:20:02
Seeing them all around. 00:20:07
Umm, Main Street Center St. the the trees and the train. It's very nice. It kind of gives me that Mayberry feel that I like and 00:20:10
but I do have a question or two about. 00:20:16
Last week. 00:20:24
Last week, a City Council meeting. 00:20:25
You mentioned the cemetery and fire station using RDA money. 00:20:28
And I would like to know. 00:20:34
Where? How much money you're planning on? 00:20:38
For the RDA. 00:20:42
I noticed today that in the land donation. 00:20:45
That the fire station is part. 00:20:49
But it doesn't say exactly where that will. 00:20:52
And also I'd like to know where the cemetery will be located. 00:20:55
And then also I had a comment, I'd like to know if I can comment on a consent item. 00:21:00
About the bicycle. 00:21:05
And let's see, Bicycle Advisory Commission 6.2 Yeah, go ahead. OK, I just have. 00:21:08
A question about that, I'd like to know who requested this. 00:21:16
To become three resident members, two alternate residents and then two at large, was it the staff, the council, a resident or the 00:21:20
Commission? 00:21:25
And what was the? What is the reasoning behind this? 00:21:30
Amendment. 00:21:34
OK, OK, so hold on. Who requested it? 00:21:36
Staff Council. 00:21:42
The Commission or resident and reason for it. OK. Thanks, Daria. Thank you. 00:21:43
Sean Herring, Vineyard resident Just two quick questions in a statement. 00:21:55
Since there's so many here tonight. 00:22:00
Where are public notices posted? 00:22:02
Heidi, Anybody want to talk about where public notices are posted? 00:22:07
They are posted on. 00:22:17
On our website and in our bulletin board upstairs and then I think there's a pavilion area at one of the parks. It's also posted 00:22:18
there. OK, to that point, just a general observation where most people are on social media I would think. 00:22:26
Facebook would be a great place to post. 00:22:35
Public notices. I think a lot of people get their information there, They look there first before. 00:22:38
Driving over here, getting out of the car, walking in to see a hard copy. 00:22:44
So just a suggestion I would. 00:22:49
Up that public notice game a little bit. 00:22:52
Do you have more? Sorry, I got plenty. OK. 00:22:56
Go ahead. Do you have a question? No, I just thanking you for your comment. I thought you were done. That's one. And then social 00:22:59
media one. 00:23:02
On top of that, but the biggest thing tonight I think, because we hear a lot from council. 00:23:05
And we hear a lot from Planning Commission and we hear a lot from employees of the city. 00:23:10
Online and here at these meetings. 00:23:15
This was approved two years ago. You should have been here two years ago. 00:23:18
Tyson's point? Not a lot of people showed up. 00:23:21
So we hear that often. We hear that often. 00:23:25
And I just hope tonight as you. 00:23:27
You know, the people are getting more and more engaged, which you guys have asked for. People are getting engaged. There's going 00:23:30
to be people here for or against all these. 00:23:34
I just want you to listen. 00:23:38
Give everybody their 3 minutes and whatever it wants to be. 00:23:40
Give everybody 3 minutes and just please listen tonight. 00:23:44
Thanks, son. All right. Any other comments? 00:23:47
Come on up. 00:23:52
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:24:00
I'm going to speak directly into the mic because the people in the hallway cannot hear. 00:24:02
My first thing I'd like to say. 00:24:07
This is a very important meeting, I think we can all agree on that. 00:24:10
There are many people who have come because it's a very important. 00:24:14
And I would ask you. 00:24:18
To postpone it until we can find a place where these people in the hall. 00:24:20
And in this room can both hear what's going on. This is a stand to do it this way. 00:24:26
For just a second, if you agree with somebody, please raise your hand. We're going to avoid clapping so that we can hear people. 00:24:33
Thank you. 00:24:36
My other concern is. 00:24:41
And this is a tough one to bring up, but I'm going to do it anyway. 00:24:44
It's a very, very difficult, time consuming and requires a lot of effort on the part of the citizens of this city as well as. 00:24:48
The councilmen and women that are. 00:24:58
But I don't think we are given credit for following and coming and speaking what we feel. 00:25:01
It takes time and effort, especially when 199 page document is posted at 4:00 the day before is going to be heard. 00:25:09
That is. 00:25:19
It's Christmas. 00:25:22
We have so much going on in our lives and if we want to stay up online we can read it and then we can come for prepared. I think 00:25:23
this meeting needs to be postponed so we have a time and a place where people can sit and be heard and speak. 00:25:32
My last comment has to do with and I know I won't get an answer. 00:25:41
But where did the money come from for Amber to send a text to every citizen? 00:25:46
And this this. 00:25:53
To bad mouth a man who won the election. 00:25:56
That's just wrong and it doesn't speak well. I'm going to say. I'm going to say something really quick just about your comment. 00:26:00
Let's refrain to things that are not in our jurisdiction. If you'd like to talk to Amber, you can talk to her after. Thank you. 00:26:05
It is in your jurisdiction. You are the mayor. If Ivan as a citizen, I would have heard from you. 00:26:12
But I just feel like this meeting should not be held at this time. Yes, I had it sent. Please stop. 00:26:19
We want to hear it. We want to hear it. 00:26:29
Thank you for. 00:26:31
Well, can we can we pause this meeting to a time and a place where we can all hear? Because these people out there want to hear 00:26:33
too. And this is wrong. OK. Thank you. 00:26:39
Raise your hand, please. 00:26:46
All right, if somebody wants to go out from our staff and just let people know that they can sign on to the. 00:26:48
The link so that they can hear it and then they can come in and make commentary. 00:26:55
That would be helpful for them. 00:27:00
Thanks. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Chase Wheeler. I'm a venue resident in lakefront. 00:27:03
And I'm not even really going to talk to them because I've been doing this for like a year. They don't listen anyway. So public 00:27:09
comments, I'm going to tell all of you my experience with them. 00:27:14
So I'm a local firefighter paramedic. My wife's a first grade teacher. What got me involved was. 00:27:20
You know, all my calls. I see a lot of bad things. You know, people, sexual assault, domestic violence, a bunch of stuff. 00:27:27
And I saw my house, and I think we all witnessed with like, the front runner, there's not enough parking. And so I saw women 00:27:33
walking home late at night. 00:27:37
And I came here and said, hey, this is like a women safety issue. Like, can we just takedown these signs? There's parking spots 00:27:42
already there. And there's a cycle that I kind of went through with the City Council where at first I heard a lot of, like great 00:27:48
things like, man, there's silver tongue. 00:27:54
And so they said they do a parking study and all we. 00:28:00
And so I kind of went away and they blamed the HOA. So I was like, OK, so then I went and became the HOA president and found out 00:28:03
that it wasn't the HOA's fault. 00:28:08
And so we came back and we actually got a bunch of college girls to come and plead with the City Council to let us park in front 00:28:13
of the house and. 00:28:17
My experience, like I just want to get back to like humanity and like common human decency in this like city. 00:28:22
Because like I've just been met with such, like, hostility, cold hearted. 00:28:29
And uh. 00:28:35
It's it's just really disappointing. And so, I mean, I'm not even going to listen to what they say because I've wasted a year 00:28:36
already. 00:28:39
But I just am proud of all of you, like the people to getting up and like taking a voice back. You know, I heard certain people 00:28:43
talk about me, me, me and our choices and the five council members. But like. 00:28:49
They don't have power. We gave them this power and they are stewards of us. 00:28:55
And what we want. 00:29:01
Not oh, we built the city. City Council built this city. Like this is our city, and I hope that. 00:29:03
Like, I know they won't listen, but. 00:29:10
Look at the facts, like the voting, like people are upset. 00:29:13
And. 00:29:16
I don't know. I just hope that someone has integrity, you know? 00:29:19
I thought it was like, hold on Chase, you're running out of time. 00:29:23
We kind of passed it. I'm just giving you a little bit extra. 00:29:27
OK. Thanks Face. 00:30:03
Next. 00:30:06
I'm Sherry Kay Miller. And actually last week when I made a comment, it did not go the way I intended. So I wrote it down so that 00:30:08
this time it doesn't go that way. And I just want to add that nobody knows that I'm making this comment okay. So the first thing I 00:30:15
want to do is to apologize to Brad. I don't know if he's here. 00:30:21
Because last last week. 00:30:27
I pointed out his expressions and his eye rolling, and I realized as soon as I sat down that that was wrong, that that was 00:30:31
confrontational. 00:30:36
That it was unkind and I am sincerely sorry because what we need right now is communication, clearly without insulting. 00:30:42
Anyway, and he wasn't the only one in the room, and it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. And I knew, and I 00:30:52
know that I'm responsible for my words and actions. 00:30:56
Wrong to do. And I'm sorry. I am not Jake's wife or child. I am not his mom or dad. 00:31:01
I am not his brother, sorry. 00:31:07
But I am his aunt and neighbor and the feelings that have been building up. 00:31:10
Last week they came out as a Mama bear and I. 00:31:16
But I do think the attacks on him, especially that citywide text, was wrong. 00:31:20
At main. 00:31:24
And I was raised that my behavior does not is not justified even because of someone else's behavior. So again, I'm saying that 00:31:26
that's this is not an excuse but a shallow explanation. I grew up here in Vineyard and there was a very there were very real 00:31:33
situations of conflict. At times these conflicts you got to go a little bit faster. I've got one minute, 38 seconds. OK, sorry, 00:31:39
I'm just listening to the people telling me time. 00:31:46
And there was a situation of real conflict at times. 00:31:54
Conflicts were solved without blasting or bullying and with much listening and respect of others opinions. 00:31:57
I heard many times that conflict is inevitable, but contention is optional. 00:32:03
Anyway, the second thing I wanted to clarify is the example of the mural I made. I actually went home to look for and found the 00:32:08
text thread on my phone. 00:32:12
Christy and I have worked together and I've enjoyed working with Christy and we were talking about Arts committee stuff and at the 00:32:16
end of the text this is what it said. 00:32:20
Also, you will see a survey that just went out about the mural. The mayor wanted to make sure residents felt included. Overall, 00:32:25
she loves the mural and just wanted to make sure we cover all of our bases. I responded with great 2 exclamation points and this 00:32:30
is a good idea. 00:32:35
The point that I was trying to make is we as residents want to feel included and listened to and. 00:32:41
That's a good, important part I needed in our city governance. We haven't felt included through all the saga of the lake 00:32:47
restoration. 00:32:51
So listen, Fiasco and we want to fill, we don't want to fill the same now tonight with the inland port issue. 00:32:55
I'm hoping that you won't vote for it until the residents have enjoyed their Christmas time with their families and if it's a good 00:33:01
thing tonight. 00:33:04
Like I said last week, it will be good in a few weeks or. 00:33:08
The last thing I want to. 00:33:13
Is that what I'm really standing for? As someone who grew up here in Vineyard, I'm really sad at the reputation that I'm hearing. 00:33:15
That citywide text went to people who haven't lived in vineyards for 2 1/2 years. 00:33:23
And I was getting texts like. Why am I getting this text? How did I have me in a database? What is going on here? 00:33:28
And also for everybody's information, it's 2 minutes. 00:33:36
So I thought it said three months, that's OK. 00:33:40
OK, All right. Anyway, Heidi, where does it say? 00:33:44
Listen, I understand there's restoration. Hold on, Sir. Hold on, Sir. OK, thank you. I just need to confirm the time because I 00:33:47
have people telling me two minutes and then we have 3 minutes. OK, so if it says three, it is 3 minutes. 00:33:54
All right. Thank. 00:34:02
All right, come on. If anybody remember, please do not repeat what other people have said. 00:34:03
So 3 minutes. 00:34:12
And it's for things that are not on the agenda if you were out in the hall and you did not hear it. 00:34:15
That infrastructure to corporations. And so my concern with the cities is to let them know that once you sell infrastructure to a 00:34:51
corporation, you are going to end up in a civil court which is different. And so giving the the what should be public to private, 00:34:57
it sounds like we're still talking about one of our items which we can totally reserve for you to talk about later. But this is 00:35:03
for things that are not currently on the agenda. Come back to it and you can talk about it. When it comes to since I'm here my my 00:35:09
hope is that. 00:35:15
As you guys listen to them, you have an opportunity to stand in between in a role of inner position. 00:35:22
And so my hope is that you don't take what people have is fear and concern and translate it into US versus them. And I I realize a 00:35:28
lot of people have a lot of passion here and it can get really defensive. And so there's a lot of information. And I just want to 00:35:34
echo what everybody else is saying, that there is kind and there's plenty of information and like Salt Lake County, you can't undo 00:35:40
this once you do it. So please don't do it tonight. Please do it later. Thank you. OK. Thanks for your comment. 00:35:47
My name is Jacob Holloway. 00:35:58
I'm grateful for everyone that's here. 00:36:06
And I apologize that we have to do this during the Christmas season. 00:36:10
We shouldn't be here right now. 00:36:15
US state law putting out the schedules. This isn't an emergency, like an act of God. I have something to say. 00:36:18
I know that you guys want us to postpone this. We have heard that comment. I know that you don't want us to listen. We have heard 00:36:25
that comment. I know that you want us to make sure that we are open if this comment is something else. 00:36:31
Please go ahead and share it. If it's the same thing, let's go ahead and move on so we can keep business going so everybody here 00:36:38
can get their comments out for the agenda. 00:36:43
I also want to respect and thank Marty for taking off that consent item of restructuring. 00:36:47
That was on there that there was an attempt to change that. 00:36:55
That that sends. 00:37:00
You know, we we ran an election. 00:37:02
Getting to the bottom of the LRS. 00:37:05
Getting the grammar documents out, interviewing staff. 00:37:08
Not. 00:37:12
But to get your involvement, Mayor Eric's involvement? 00:37:14
And understand how many were defrauded. 00:37:20
How many were? 00:37:22
And we were very transparent in that over a year and a half process. 00:37:25
Once seated and getting access to those documents, we, Sarah and I. 00:37:30
Would like to do and we will be doing a complete investigation. 00:37:34
Keeping six point. 00:37:38
As our authority and equal is very important to the form of our government. The second we're going to be talking about that off 00:37:40
the agenda. So if anybody else wants to make a comment that has to do about 6.7. 00:37:46
You'll be able to talk about it because it was removed from consent to discuss. 00:37:53
So anything that's on the agenda, please refrain from talking about it so we can get through business because there are so many 00:37:59
people here tonight. 00:38:02
In 1980, my grandfather Robert, with four of his cousins and uncles, recognized that they were not being listened by. 00:38:06
And found that during the planning. 00:38:14
That they wanted to design their their city. 00:38:16
Their voice needed to be heard. The 12th West trailers were coming in, chemical plants were coming in, and they wanted to design 00:38:20
their city. 00:38:24
I stand before you. 00:38:28
As a third generation person, that's going to be serving on this council, and it's not the council, it's the citizens that have to 00:38:31
be heard. It was the dream of those men. 00:38:36
They came forward and ran legislation to create this. 00:38:41
And and it wasn't of the council. It was for the people and of the people, and to throw this through. 00:38:46
And potentially and the last thing I want to say is. 00:38:54
I've spoken with the developers that are trying to do this pit and I've spoken to them directly on having a good relationship 00:38:58
after this. 00:39:02
I might not be able to kind of the previous. It's been few minutes. I'll say this because you spoke for 20 seconds, OK, I might 00:39:06
not be able to hold this council accountable. 00:39:11
But if this is pushed through, I, Sarah, and I are viewing this as bad faith, and allowing us to be involved in the process is 00:39:16
important to us, and it's important you're still talking about. 00:39:22
That will be on the agenda and you'll have an opportunity at that time. But now I've heard your comment. 00:39:28
All right. Any other comments before we move on to the agenda items? OK. Remember, this is about something that has not been said, 00:39:33
something that is not on the agenda. I'm really amazed that even though you may have a, excuse me, I'm Keith Holdaway, I might be 00:39:38
the longest. 00:39:44
The oldest resident of the vineyard. 00:39:50
That that had had to do with the City Council. I tried to get others who have been on the council here. 00:39:52
But. But that's a tough thing to ask. 00:40:00
When they've dealt with. 00:40:03
I am. I've just come from a Christmas party. I am highly offended. 00:40:06
That this came, this agenda was dropped 24 hours ago. 00:40:12
When I had my Christmas party. It's going on right now. 00:40:17
And I can't be there. I got to welcome them there, and I've got to come and take care of this Dang mess. 00:40:22
The timing on this sucks. How in the world can we make such great decisions when we only have 24 hours to actually address? 00:40:28
That is, that is ridiculous. 00:40:39
OK, remember, refrain. Just raise your hand so we can hear. 00:40:42
This is our time. 00:40:49
I've never, I never had ruined gammon make those kind of comments. Everybody was able to speak their heart. 00:40:50
So, so Please be patient. 00:40:57
Because we're frustr. 00:40:59
Because we've seen a lot of bad stuff in the past. 00:41:01
Why? Why this comes up in between the election until the new citizens? 00:41:06
Are are seated as ridiculous. It's obvious what the game plan is You're not hiding. Please raise your hand. 00:41:11
So that we can hear, be respectful of the order that we're trying to do. 00:41:20
Listen, I I need. I need you to understand something. This is a room that is going to have order in it so that we can all respect 00:41:26
each other. I understand you want to be heard. Raise your hand when we see you and we are hearing what you're saying. 00:41:34
Go ahead. Thank you. At the same time, we expect respect from our elected officials. 00:41:43
On that, on that respect INVOL. 00:41:51
Being open, communicating. 00:41:54
Closed door sessions. I've never seen one before. When my father and I were on the council. Why are we doing this sort of thing? 00:41:57
Let's be. 00:42:01
Let's talk about things. Why do we have to rush things? 00:42:06
A rush decision is always a poor decision. 00:42:11
It always has been and it always will. 00:42:15
And I'm not sure what your backdoor game plan is, but it really stinks to high heaven as we view it from your 200 page agenda. 00:42:18
Though we only have a hard time understanding this, and I don't know who wrote it, I'd like to know who actually wrote it for you. 00:42:28
Because I and I wonder what's? 00:42:36
What's in it for you, Mayor? 00:42:40
And and. 00:42:42
Because, because anybody in their right mind wouldn't give away our tax base. 00:42:44
Nobody in their mind. Thank you. I'm done. Thank you. Did you did you want to? Please refrain? Raise your hand if you agree. Did 00:42:51
you want to explain the public process they're talking about? 00:42:58
Closed sessions, backdoor meetings, and I I don't know if we should talk about how things are posted or processed or anything like 00:43:05
that. 00:43:09
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what he's referring to on closed door meetings or closed sessions or that kind of thing. The. 00:43:16
Our meetings are noticed through the state has a public website where all cities are required to publish their notices. 00:43:24
The requirement for all cities throughout the state is 24 hours. 00:43:31
Beforehand for the agenda, The city complies with that. There are some items that require longer notice if they deal with land 00:43:34
use, if they deal with property disposition. 00:43:39
There are a handful of other items that might require different notices than that. 00:43:44
When items require that kind of notice, we publish. 00:43:49
Hold on Tristy, let me respond. 00:44:34
We have an online portal that you can use and these people, if they have a comment on something, can walk into the meeting and we 00:44:36
can hear them. I can't hear you out there to even hear what's happening. 00:44:41
Is it possible that we can put one of our videos, like our screens out there that they can access what we're doing right now? Will 00:44:47
we get feedback? 00:44:52
Well, we do. We do meet the candidates at an elementary school. You guys have been telling me for 10 years that I've been here. 00:44:59
Please come and participate. You have people participating. If you choose to vote on this without listening to us, it's on you 00:45:03
guys. 00:45:07
That's all I expect if if the items come up, we will let you know what item we're on and people from that room can come and speak 00:45:12
about it if they would like to. 00:45:17
We will go and notice what item we are on and they can come and speak about it if they would like to. 00:45:23
Go ahead. Hi there. My name is David. I tell I'm a vineyard resident. I live in Westbrook. I don't know if you have to say where 00:45:29
you're from. 00:45:33
I just have two quick questions. I promise you this is something separate one. The other night there was a crash out on 800 and I 00:45:37
don't know if you guys are driving on the road during that time, but holy hell. 00:45:43
The traffic was insane. 00:45:49
Like I I don't always commute, but it was really bad. 00:45:51
You go one way, there's people going through parking lots. I just want to like bring that up as like as like a hey, what are we 00:45:54
going to do about those type of things? I mean it's Utah, someone dies on the 15 every day. So like what is our plan? Would it be 00:46:01
like a police officer standing up with the lights and and got in traffic or if it's like getting the lights to do something? 00:46:07
But like I was stuck in traffic for like 35 minutes to go a block or two. So but also thank you to the EMS like I'm a health care 00:46:14
worker. Thank you for the EMS workers. I'd have to do a great job to handle that situation. 00:46:19
Second of all, David, just on your question, you're mostly talking about access or was there a problem with the signal or? 00:46:25
And. 00:47:07
You need to get everyone on the same page going the same direction. I don't know. 00:47:42
Second question, a second problem I have, I want to bring up the city was I don't know if everyone had this, but there was a bunch 00:47:46
of people laying fiber lines in like city in like different subdivisions. I don't know if that was a city thing or subconscious 00:47:51
thing but they spray painted all over my property. 00:47:56
And that stuff's not coming off and they ****** ** my lawn. Sorry. And there's this cones that have been here for like 3 weeks and 00:48:01
I just think that's like a really bad showing. Like I've called the city office, but I haven't really gotten any response. I think 00:48:08
it was a private industry, but I there are several people here that you can talk to, so. 00:48:14
I really didn't get any help in the city, so OK, Yeah, we'll make sure that you do. Thank you so much. 00:49:11
Chris Price, Providence Vineyard Vineyard resident I'm I'm super nervous, so I hope that I can. 00:49:24
Get out what I what I'm what I'm trying to say. Umm. 00:49:30
There's a ton of stuff that I that I would like to talk about on the agenda, but I don't think I'm going to make it that far. And 00:49:33
so I'm just going to, I'm going to talk to the the. 00:49:38
And. 00:49:43
I want you guys to know how much I love. 00:49:48
Our country. I love our country. 00:49:51
Our Const. 00:49:55
Was forged out of blood and sacrifice. 00:49:57
Of all of the greatest people in our country. 00:50:02
Each of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence. 00:50:06
Pledged their lives. 00:50:09
And all that. 00:50:11
To this idea of. 00:50:14
And many of them. Most of them. 00:50:18
Lost their treasure and their families. 00:50:21
And many of them. 00:50:24
Through this pledge to bring about freedom. 00:50:26
That doc. 00:50:31
Is alive in every single tiny town. 00:50:32
From Washington, DC to Los Angeles. 00:50:37
When you're sworn. 00:50:43
You pledge yourself to abide by the state. 00:50:45
And the federal constitution of this country. 00:50:49
Part of that. 00:50:54
Is that the citizens of this state, the citizens of this community and this city? 00:50:57
Give each and everyone. 00:51:04
Power to make decisions on our behalf. 00:51:07
With that we. 00:51:12
That you be our voice. 00:51:14
And I want you. 00:51:17
That the voice of the citizens have made their voice heard. 00:51:21
This ele. 00:51:26
Was a massive wake up to the trajectory that you're taking the city. 00:51:27
We don't want it. 00:51:35
We want development. We want this place to be developed, but not in the vision that you guys are taking. 00:51:37
I am asking each and everyone. 00:51:46
To look at this room. 00:51:50
And the people who are. 00:51:52
That feel the same way that we. 00:51:54
I ask that you guys. 00:51:58
In accordance with the way that the citizens are showing up. 00:52:01
And making their voices. 00:52:05
And not in. 00:52:08
Of. 00:52:10
We elected you and gave you power from us. This is what the Constitution is, Amber. 00:52:12
You can disagree with. 00:52:20
This is what people thought and. 00:52:22
Died. 00:52:24
To make this happen to give you power to. 00:52:25
On my beh. 00:52:29
Thank you. 00:52:32
My name is Julie Cox. I've been a resident of Vineyards since 2019. I live in the Providence neighborhood. I have two primary 00:52:39
questions to ask our mayor and our sitting City Council Why are you in office and who are your constituents? 00:52:45
I'm quoting from the Vineyard Utah org website of our Mayors bio, she says. In 2017 I spoke about the need to create clear 00:52:51
communication and transparency in the city. 00:52:56
A constituency facing atmosphere within the city. I've been serving the people of our community for almost 10 years, actively 00:53:02
engaged in bettering the community, coming to the table if decision making and fighting for the needs of the individuals and the 00:53:08
neighborhoods of Vineyard. 00:53:13
I find time to know the needs of your communities. 00:53:18
You've talked tonight about respect. Do you respect the people that showed up tonight enough to not move forward with the agenda 00:53:22
tonight? 00:53:26
Who are your constituents? 00:53:31
Are they? 00:53:33
Or are they develop? 00:53:34
Are you willing to sell Vineyard and not listen to the residents of Vineyard tonight? 00:53:36
I would tell. 00:53:43
If you respect your constituents, constituents, you will not move forward. 00:53:45
You will listen to us. 00:53:50
And you will take our opinions into consideration prior to making these important decisions. 00:53:52
Stop the meeting. Don't move forward. There should not be a vote tonight. 00:53:57
Jason Christiansen, I have my comments are regarding at one of the action items on the agenda tonight, but I just want. 00:54:10
Hold on, I just want to make a brief comment regarding this time public comment. 00:54:19
Is there's too much contention? 00:54:25
We are supposed to be a Christian community. 00:54:29
All of us. 00:54:34
Are supposed to be gravitating towards God. 00:54:37
Can we and those wrongs on both sides? 00:54:40
The action I am I came for tonight was on the agenda 2 weeks ago. 00:54:43
There was a lot of confusion from the public. 00:54:48
Populace. There's also a lot of. 00:54:52
Low tolerance and tyrannical. 00:54:59
Opinion funded from this governing. 00:55:01
Can we please? 00:55:04
Just take two minutes 3 minutes. 00:55:07
All of us come together in sacred, humble prayer. 00:55:10
To put aside contention to have reasonable discussion. 00:55:16
And for for. 00:55:22
Thank you. 00:55:26
Ryan, Holdaway resident I'm sorry my mom couldn't make it to the family reunion. 00:55:35
Because all of us have spoke. 00:55:40
And I just, I've been thinking a lot about last week and last week we talked a lot about vesting developers rights. 00:55:42
And forgive me for not recalling who who said it, but. 00:55:49
Somebody said at some point that developers have rights, which I agree with. Land owners have rights, however. 00:55:53
As a City Council and as a Planning Commission, it's your responsibility to represent the citizens, not the developers rights. 00:55:59
And I would call upon you to consider that in your actions. 00:56:06
My major concern last week was about public safety and about pedestrian safety, specifically on the road where. 00:56:10
Allowed public parking. 00:56:18
So a high school senior died this. 00:56:20
Engaged in that I drive by that memorial every single day, and it's a stinging reminder of government's failure to protect our 00:56:23
citizens because no one has done anything about it. 00:56:28
Somebody died there. That park is full of parking all the time. Nobody's done anything. What's happening? 00:56:32
And it frustrates. 00:56:38
That last week. 00:56:40
After. 00:56:43
It was very frustrating to me as a citizen who wants to protect my own children because my children walk in that park. 00:56:44
And it scares me. 00:56:51
My last comment is developers do have rights. 00:56:53
And some of those rights, if it doesn't comply with what your direction is or the planning direction is, is to sell their 00:56:56
property. 00:56:59
They can choose to not comply with what is the best solution for our community and I challenge you guys to find the best solution, 00:57:02
not the developer's best solution. 00:57:06
But our city's best. 00:57:11
And all the actions that you're doing, like I call upon that and call upon your greater sense of good. 00:57:13
What up, council? I'll be short and sweet. My name is Clayton Preet. I live in Solstice. 00:57:24
I know it's kind of been said. I know we don't want to rehash anything, but literally I'm standing right at the door and I can't 00:57:29
hear a word this dude said into his microphone. Is there any way we can turn these up just a little bit? There's probably 50 or 60 00:57:33
people outside we cannot hear a word. And with the delay with Facebook, there's like 9 different phones going out there. It's 00:57:38
crazy. 00:57:42
So I mean, unless I'm breathing on it, they can hear me outside. So is there anything we can do about that? If so, that would be 00:57:47
awesome. We're all trying to show the support. Thank you. 00:57:51
Appreciate it. 00:57:55
Heidi, were you able to? 00:57:57
Razor. 00:57:58
My name is Jim McGill and I've been your res. 00:58:01
In a transparent government. 00:58:05
This subject, starting last week, this subject would have come out to the residence and it would have come out in the form of town 00:58:07
hall meetings. We had a lot of. 00:58:12
And there's been maps and explanations. There were people I wanted to stop you just for a second. I don't know if you were out in 00:58:17
the public, but let me tell you what we've already heard. 00:58:21
Out in the hall, I get my listen. Hold on one second. We've already heard I can talk over each other. 00:58:26
Because I get my 3 minutes and I haven't gotten. 00:58:32
I'm just wondering, were you out in the hall or were you in? 00:58:35
All I want to say. 00:58:40
Is that we would have. We would have town hall meetings. There would be explanations. There would be time for each one of us to 00:58:43
get our questions answered. We would get. 00:58:48
We would be in a venue that would allow us all to participate as citizens. 00:58:54
And in actually a real city government, like I said last week, we would be celebrating our outgoing council members. 00:58:59
Educating our. 00:59:07
Coming to excuse me, incoming council members and we would be all home at Christmas parties. 00:59:09
This is not how government is. 00:59:16
Hold on one second. 00:59:22
All right. We are going to close public comment at a quarter two. So you still have a few more minutes and then we're going to 00:59:44
wrap up and go on to the agenda items. So if you still have something that's not on the agenda has not been set, please come 00:59:48
forward and state your comment. 00:59:52
1/4. 00:59:57
What time is it? Just kidding. Not 1/4 to quarter after. 01:00:00
Thanks Sarah Cameron, Parkside Vineyard resident So. 01:00:05
That's really loud. Is that intentional? Can you guys hear me out there? 01:00:11
Umm, so for three weeks after, it looked like Jake and I had been elected, I've been in contact with you, Julie, to be able to 01:00:14
cover the signs in lakefront so that people could park there overnight. 01:00:21
During the dark time and the cold and it's been a back and forth exchange, there's never been, yeah, I'll go ahead and do that. I 01:00:28
think that would be really nice to the citizens, especially the young women who are coming home from work at midnight or 1:00 in 01:00:35
the morning to not have to walk so far. So I'm wondering if you would give us permission to do that this weekend. 01:00:41
All right. 01:00:49
Just to answer your question. 01:00:51
When I called the ETA, it said because we had worked on that permit process together, they did not need additional parking. I've 01:00:54
been in touch with their management company to get. 01:00:59
Data to show whether or not they still need it. 01:01:04
And so if you would like to talk to them and ask them why that is. 01:01:08
And they've made it very, very clear that they need extra parking. That's and clearly. 01:01:46
I hear you and I will. I will send you that data that they send me and you will have access to it to see what they said and you'll 01:01:52
get the response that I'm getting back from it. And I appreciate it. I appreciate that you cared. I appreciate that you brought it 01:01:59
to my attention and we're having this conversation. So thank you. I do care. And it's cold right now, so. 01:02:06
Just a simple yes or no would be awesome. 01:02:14
Thanks. There's definitely a. 01:02:16
My name is Tyler Harrelson. I live in Edgewater. 01:02:25
I last time I came to City Council meeting, I talked about the accident on 400. SI kind of heard through the Grapevine after that. 01:02:30
One or more of you had thought that I was accusing you of killing the pedestrian, Which? 01:02:39
I didn't realize I'd be politicizing in front of this many people, but that is not at all. 01:02:46
Meant to communicate. I may disagree with the design over there, but I don't think any of you wanted the best thing to be killed. 01:02:50
I don't think the driver wanted the pedestrian to be killed. I don't think anyone wanted the pedestrian to be killed. So I want to 01:02:55
do portraits for that and. 01:03:01
For not keeping my cool, a little bit more about it. You don't need to apologize. I think everybody here understands how sad it 01:03:07
is. Sienna Life is meaningful to all of us. I think that if anybody said anything, I imagine that it was. 01:03:15
We have been proactively working on that street for sidewalks and crossings and making sure that access is meaningful. And I would 01:03:23
say that that particular intersection is not designed for anybody to cross it because of the glare and the sun. And so it's 01:03:30
engineered for the people to go down to different crosswalks. And so we talked about how there needs to be more education for why 01:03:37
people need to walk to this cross box and there's no parking in that particular area because of where it is as an access point. 01:03:45
So the jurisdiction also doesn't fall into our city. And so when we're talking about our policy, even though we're being proactive 01:03:53
and we're working with the other city and we're trying to come together to a resolve finding the right thing, to say we want 01:04:01
people to go to different corners, it was not lost on us. And to say maybe we need to put a sign there that says This is why. 01:04:08
You cannot cross at this intersection, whatever it is. But whatever your comment was, it was meaningful. It's meaningful to all of 01:04:15
us. The loss of that life is meaningful to all of us. So you don't need to apologize. Just thank you for sharing your comment. I 01:04:19
did also want to clarify. 01:04:24
I want to apologize and clarify because two council members leaving, I I didn't want them leaving with bad terms, but I also want 01:04:29
to clarify. 01:04:34
You kind of have two strategies that would be effective there. You could choose one of the two. The first one is. 01:04:38
So at sort of the base level of the physics of what happened was a car was going fast enough to be lethal and it hit a pedestrian 01:04:45
and the pedestrian died because the force is transferred, right? 01:04:51
So your first strategy would be to slow down the cars through design so you could put in different design options of juror 01:04:57
engineering planning has. 01:05:01
Lots of ideas. 01:05:06
So that would be good. The second one would be to take sort of a firing range approach and a firing range. They don't try to slow 01:05:08
down the bullets so there's safe enough to hit people. They just get the people out of the way and they have fences up and they've 01:05:13
got the one little tiny doorway that you can go through and people are watching that, making sure you don't go through. They close 01:05:18
it while it's going. 01:05:23
So putting up a sign would be good for education, but I think that you kind of like putting up a sign. 01:05:29
Next to it would be better ones there now, but it'd be like putting up a sign of the firing range that. 01:05:36
Dunk over there. I think you you'd probably be better off putting up a fence so that the pedestrian has to walk down a ton. 01:05:42
Offensive. They couldn't climb it, so they have to walk down to the correct intersection that way. 01:05:48
Think they're good and try to cross illegally and then get in. So thank you. Thank you. 01:05:55
Karen Cornelius, vineyard resident. I know I spoke once, but before you go to business. 01:06:08
Please step outside. 01:06:13
And look at who cannot. 01:06:15
It's not working. 01:06:18
There's a delay from what's going on in here to what's going on out there. It's on cell phones, there's no speaker system. 01:06:21
How can you carry on business of this import? 01:06:28
To every citizen of this. 01:06:33
Without being willing to allow them to hear, I beg. 01:06:36
To cancel for go and move it to another day. 01:06:40
When we don't have Christmas concerts that we're trying to. 01:06:44
Fiddle with when we don't have family commitments. This was wrong, is wrong and we are pleading with you. Somebody go out there 01:06:49
and see. 01:06:54
This is a circus. 01:06:59
Thank you. 01:07:01
All right. Parker Edwards, vineyard resident. 01:07:06
So I think this all comes down to transparency. 01:07:10
Right. I don't know if you guys have ever done anything else except for this, but like on the first page, I think this is a really 01:07:13
good example. 01:07:16
You guys have on the first page here that somebody has 3 minutes to speak and this page, this document is 3 pages long. 01:07:20
Yesterday you released a 200 page document and expect everybody here to understand it. 01:07:27
So yeah, I think that would be a really good idea. I think you guys should step outside and just see, like, how many people are 01:07:32
here, they can't hear a thing. 01:07:36
So yeah, this all just comes down to transparency. My aunt and uncle. 01:07:40
It's they're the Holder ways. 01:07:47
And the things that I saw on social media that I'm assuming are posted by one of you actually. 01:07:49
We're absolutely unbeliev. 01:07:56
Like, absolutely unbelievable. 01:07:58
I'm not. I'm not as old as some people here, only 24 years old. 01:08:01
But I'm just letting you know that. 01:08:05
If you guys have to go that low. 01:08:08
To win an election. 01:08:11
Like, give me a freaking break. So thanks, bye. 01:08:13
I don't know what he's talking about. 01:08:17
Good evening. My name is Ann Taylor and I have never been to one of these and I'm. 01:08:23
Wish I had done, but I actually left the grand. 01:08:28
Concert to come. 01:08:32
Because I feel like it's this important and I did not know and you're not listening. 01:08:34
I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? I would be happy to. I apologize. 01:08:41
Listen, I understand you might have said that we don't listen, and then there's this catch and it's really funny. But what we were 01:08:49
trying to decide is if we needed to clarify what the gentleman in the back said or whether or not we understood him. So we're 01:08:54
trying to listen and I understand that. It's frustrating. 01:08:59
You have to understand that we're doing our best to hear you and we're doing our best to conduct business. 01:09:04
So we are trying to listen. So if you told me that, we're not listening. 01:09:09
I apolog. 01:09:15
We are here trying to listen. 01:09:16
And just for your for your sake, would you please come back to the microphone because none of us knew what you were talking about. 01:09:19
So we just wanted a quick clarifying point on what you're talking about with the Post. 01:09:25
OK, so my name is Ann Taylor. This is the first time I've been to one of these meetings and I lived in Vineyard for three years 01:09:34
and was really I'm thrilled to move here from Las Vegas. 01:09:39
And it's I feel like was sold a different bill of goods than what's happening here and I don't feel like. 01:09:44
I've there has been. 01:09:52
And communication of what's going on. And the only reason I knew is because of a few neighbors. And I would just really appreciate 01:09:53
that. Yeah, that's something as important as. 01:09:58
Some of the things that are on the agenda tonight should not be handled and this quickly. I'm not sure what the rush is on all of 01:10:04
these different items. It seems like that are really, really important. 01:10:09
And I just, you know, like I say shame on me for not being able to be here before, but also like I I left a grand. 01:10:15
Band concert. So I could come here and then there's not even a place to sit or here or anything. And I'm just kind of like, wow, I 01:10:23
don't. I realized it was this chaotic. 01:10:27
And so it's a little frustrating to see this and this little stage of that I really love and appreciate and so I hope that you 01:10:32
would reconsider some of these things and when like I think some other people said and I wasn't here earlier. 01:10:38
That we need a venue where people can. 01:10:46
I'll be here and be heard and be and also hear you. 01:10:51
And what's going on and and what the motivations are behind all these things that have to move so quickly? 01:10:55
I'm not sure if they're so major. 01:11:01
That. 01:11:03
We'd really like some understanding. 01:11:07
And some better communication. 01:11:09
Thank you. 01:11:12
OK, so I can just read it. 01:11:13
Well, I don't need you to read it. Just briefly state what it is so that we can understand the text from Amber. OK. Yeah. I think, 01:11:17
I think we all know what you're talking about. I would assume so. Yeah, so, like, how is that OK? 01:11:25
OK, I'll just state this. If Amber at any time would like to clarify her personal choices, she may. 01:11:33
The council does uphold the Constitution, and there's the Freedom of Speech Act. And even though she serves on the City Council, 01:11:41
she does not speak for the City Council when she does things like that. So if she's talking about something that she believes to 01:11:46
be fitness of character, it could come off bad as somebody else. 01:11:51
And to somebody else. 01:11:57
Provides fitness of character. May be something that somebody else doesn't agree with. That's going to have to be something that 01:11:58
you talk to her individually about. And we will give the freedom of speech to everybody, including the City Council person. Thank 01:12:03
you for your comments. 01:12:08
Just to respond, I don't mean to be confrontational and what I'm about to say so. 01:12:14
It's my understanding and Amber, obviously you know way better than I do, but that Jake was working at a software company. 01:12:18
I'd just like to say I actually own a software company. 01:12:25
I think as of, I'm sorry, last week, I think, hold on, hold on. I want to tell you something really quick, but you don't 01:12:29
understand. I want to tell you something really quick. 01:12:33
When I said she does not speak for the Council. 01:12:38
What you're doing is you're addressing a public body about something we don't have any ability to control. And you're talking to 01:12:41
an individual on a personal matter that doesn't represent her as a City Council person. And while she may be your representative, 01:12:47
and you gave me, gave me mad, at some point you have the ability to vote for somebody else. And this is, and this and this is the 01:12:53
public process. But this conversation does not involve the business of this council. And so I need the conversation about this to 01:12:59
be. 01:13:05
Directed to the private conversations where they belong. And if you would like to talk to Amber afterwards, you can do that. If 01:13:12
she would like to make a comment during her personal time to talk, she may do that. Until that time, I'm going to stop this 01:13:17
comment. Thank you. Thanks, Amber. 01:13:22
As a side note, that that text came from Councilwoman. 01:13:32
Amber Rasmussen, I'm OK. Please raise your hand. Please raise your hand. 01:13:36
And refrain just because somebody states their title like I told you earlier. 01:13:43
That does not mean they speak for us. She holds the title. 01:13:49
Just like a a professor might say, I'm from this university, but they cannot speak for the full university. 01:13:53
All right. Mike, I apologize. Go ahead. 01:14:00
Indian Res. 01:14:04
I asked each one of you a very simple question last week. None of you answered me. 01:14:06
But the head of the Planning Commission did have the integrity. 01:14:15
To answer. 01:14:20
And I would like to ask that question again. 01:14:21
When did each one of? 01:14:25
1st. 01:14:29
About Vineyard and the Utah Element Port, thank you very much. 01:14:32
All right. It looks like we've come to our time. So we're going to go ahead and close the public session or the public hearing, 01:14:38
and we will move on to our agenda items. We'll start out with our mayor and council member reports. 01:14:44
Case. 01:14:51
Amber, did you want to make a comment? No. OK, Marty, Christy, OK, we'll move on to Eric. 01:14:54
OK. Thank you, Mayor. And council just wanted to give some updates from our different departments. So we'll start with the 01:15:01
building department. 01:15:05
The city has issued building permits for blocks five and six in the downtown area, which consists of 6/4 story apartment 01:15:10
buildings. We're currently reviewing commercial plan reviews for Kung Fu tea. 01:15:16
Office space in the industrial area and a Jersey Mike's that are close to submitting their plans for review. 01:15:23
We're finishing up five residential plan reviews for Iron Gate in the Cottonwood subdivisions. 01:15:31
From the finance. 01:15:38
The financial audit of the city is for the fiscal year ending June 30th, 2023 is coming to completion. 01:15:40
And expect a presentation from the auditors in January or February. 01:15:47
Budget season is quickly approaching so we'll have a detailed calendar distributed here soon for the Council. 01:15:54
From Parks and Rec. 01:16:03
We had our grand opening of the OR we have our grand opening of The Vineyard Connection. 01:16:05
Extension. 01:16:09
This is an event to continue the growth of Image Downtown with hopes to open the Vineyard Connector extension near the middle to 01:16:11
end of December. I think it's actually with with Public Works. I'll give you an actual date, I think it's the 23rd but. 01:16:18
Also the memorial site for Sienna. This project is in response to the Vineyard resident who recently passed away due to the tragic 01:16:26
vehicle accident that we heard about earlier. 01:16:31
And we've been in contact with Orem City to help locate a memorial site for Sienna. 01:16:36
I also wanted to let you know that the holiday tree lighting was quite a success. We had over 200 attendees. This was on November 01:16:43
20. 01:16:47
And the residents were able to go through 25 gallons of hot chocolate just. 01:16:52
From Public Works. 01:17:00
All the public, all the pedestrian flashers have been installed to include. 01:17:01
Along Grove Park at 400 N and then a flasher activated area lighting will be installed by January of this coming year. 01:17:06
The School zone flashers have been all updated to be fully on a remote system. 01:17:15
The trail along the lake that has had a constant water icing issue that has now been fixed by a contractor with the with the help 01:17:22
of the city staff. 01:17:28
Just as a heads up, as we enter winter season, snow removal operations are up and ready to roll. We've even had a couple 01:17:36
opportunities to use that. Just wanted to remind residents. 01:17:42
To be sure to clear the public streets when we have a snowfall so that our crews can get out and remove that snow effectively. 01:17:49
Multiple infrastructure master plans are underway and just wanted to kind of point what these are as I've heard a couple. 01:17:57
Interested parties talking about these. 01:18:06
A Sewer Master Plan, a Water Master Plan and a Transportation Master Plan that are all underway and should be completed during the 01:18:09
year 2024. 01:18:13
City water tank and booster station are nearly completed with the exception of some electrical components. We expect to have that 01:18:19
project completed no later than January of 2025. 01:18:25
And in the meantime, city residents and businesses will not see any reduction in the water service. 01:18:32
Quality or capabilities as those are being satisfied through Orem and Century to water. 01:18:37
Lastly, U dot vineyard connector. 01:18:43
I will be at 100% completion. 01:18:47
On December 22nd and we have a grand opening plan for. 01:18:51
The 23rd, Is that right? The Saturday? 01:18:57
Between 10 and noon. 01:19:00
That's all I have. Thank you. OK. Do we have anybody from the Planning Commission here that would like to give a report? 01:19:03
We were with you last week, so it doesn't need to be on anything that we really discussed, but you're welcome to Yeah, just real 01:19:10
quick. 01:19:13
All right. We're going to discuss some of the consent items. I do need somebody to go to the hall and let them know that we will 01:19:23
be discussing the consent items and that we are removing 6.7 in case they did not hear it. There were some people that were 01:19:29
concerned about it. Was there anything else that the council would like to pull off before they make a motion for the consent? 01:19:35
Yeah, I actually apologize. I don't know what 6.8 is. I. 01:19:44
Could someone briefly explain that to me? 01:19:49
Where is Morgan? 01:19:53
Morgan is not here. 01:19:54
I can. I can talk about it and everybody, you're going to hear more from me tonight than usual. Our planning director had a 01:19:57
medical emergency with his family and so he's. 01:20:01
I'll do the best I can on the on the things that he had been working on. There are agreements the city has with a number of 01:20:08
economic development entities. 01:20:13
And this? 01:20:18
Closer to the. 01:20:21
There are a number of agreements the city has with economic development. 01:20:24
Entities and. 01:20:28
This resolution is intended to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew. 01:20:33
And continue with those relations. 01:20:40
There is that in a nutshell. What it is? Do you have any further questions? 01:20:44
OK. 01:20:48
I can make a motion OK. Also, Daria had asked some questions on 6.2. Did anybody want to take that off for immediate discussion? 01:20:51
I'm sure. Go for it. OK. We can do it. Are you darling? There you are. 01:21:00
Yeah. OK. So I moved to approve the consent items as presented. 01:21:06
The removal of items 6. 01:21:11
.297 point 2 and 6.7. 01:21:14
OK, first by. 01:21:18
Second, by Tice, all in favor. Aye. All right, we'll go ahead and discuss 6.2 approval of the Bicycle Advisory Commission 01:21:20
amendments. I already had some questions about just the changes that had happened. I'm sorry, those were just recommended by the 01:21:27
Commission and some of the staff that we're talking about inviting more experts into the the Commission. 01:21:35
Did you have any other questions you want to come up to the microphone And I I mean I want to guess that Darius probably just 01:21:43
making sure that the bike commission's comfortable with the change. Is that, is that I mean I guess you need to come to the 01:21:47
microphone. 01:21:51
I'm assuming if the Commission did make this recommendation, they are comfortable with what they're deciding, but I'm just 01:22:04
wondering. 01:22:08
How would someone who lives in Monticello or Kanab or Richmond know exactly what's in your needs as far as the Bicycle Commission? 01:22:13
That's my concern. 01:22:19
Yeah, I think one of the things that they requested was that they wanted to learn more and have more expertise when it came to 01:22:26
actually planning. But as far as what Vineyard wants and needs, I think that's where the majority of them sits on the board itself 01:22:32
from our city. But is anybody here for a bicycle Commission? Go ahead. 01:22:37
Yeah, Kidron, I'm. I guess I'm not the chair anymore. I was just. 01:22:48
We just had a We just selected a new chair. But yeah, it's just. 01:22:53
To get more outside expertise, more. 01:22:58
Obviously there's people in Utah County or in in the area that are doing great things when it comes to bike infrastructure and 01:23:01
pedestrian safety and so we want to be able to learn from them. But yeah, when it comes to decisions that are made, we're going to 01:23:07
recommend the Vineyard. Residents on the Commission are going to be the ones to make those recommendations. 01:23:14
And present them to Council. The Bicycle Advisory Commission has no like legislative. 01:23:20
Decision making ability, we just provide recommendations to the City Council and then go from there. So yeah we're we're a 01:23:26
advisement group and Tyler is actually here because we spoke. Can somebody from that back, one of our staff or commissioners just 01:23:32
run out and get Tyler if he's out in the hall and he can't hear what's going on with us just so he can come and ask answer Gary's 01:23:37
question. 01:23:43
If he's still here. 01:23:51
Tyler Haroldson. 01:23:52
Just one of our staff members, please walk out. 01:23:55
Thank you so much, Bryce. You're on staff that you are wonderful. You were blocking the way of the staff. Thank you. 01:24:00
Well, just wait a second just to check if he's here. I mean, was your answer sufficient from Kayden? 01:24:08
I just want to keep it local. OK, OK. Any questions from the council on the specific item just because I sent people out? I'm just 01:24:15
going to wait and see if Tyler comes, just for a minute. 01:24:21
And actually now oh wait. 01:24:29
Line a discretionary. 01:24:32
Mayor one up here, could you answer my other question about the cemetery? 01:24:38
That'll be a non different item. So thanks Aria. No. Tyler's gone. OK, Thank you for your question. Council, can I get a motion to 01:24:44
approve that item or whatever you want to do with that? I move to approve consent. Item 6.2, Bicycle Advisory Commission 01:24:52
Amendments or Minutes 2023, Dash 31. OK, First by Marty, second, second by Amber. Any discussion All in favor? Aye. 01:25:00
All right, 6.7 Municipal code, amendment of appointment and removal of city officers. We'll go ahead and have Jamie present this. 01:25:09
So this is an amendment to city code that relates to the appointment and the removal of appointed officers. There are a few 01:25:19
officers in state code that were not included in the current city regulations. 01:25:25
And then the this. 01:25:32
Adds to that with all of the. 01:25:35
Officers of record for the city. So this is the city record of the finance director of the city treasurer, the city attorney and 01:25:39
the city engineer. 01:25:43
Clarifies that those of the appointments for any of those positions come from the mayor, are ratified by the City Council, and 01:25:47
then has removal procedures. 01:25:52
That are similar the mayor with the City Council ratification. 01:25:57
If the mayor doesn't agree with the removal decision, the City Council can make that removal by the unanimous. 01:26:01
Can you explain the difference between? 01:26:10
The governing body versus having a supermajority. 01:26:14
Is that my understanding that correctly, on a lot of these motions it has to be for council members? 01:26:18
On the on the removal language, that's how it's written that if the mayor's not part of the majority. 01:26:24
Than the other four council members can override the mayor. 01:26:30
And by unanimous vote of those four make the removal even over the mayors objection. 01:26:35
And could you also explain? I think we spoke about this earlier. 01:26:42
The communications department was what was the change down here? Yeah, so there there are a few different sections of code that 01:26:48
are affected by this. 01:26:52
Section 2.04 that's That was a placeholder for. 01:26:56
The general appointment of officers and employees and then section 2.08 relates to the appointment of the city manager, the 01:27:00
removal of the city manager, but also the function of the city manager and the mayor relative to each other. And there's. 01:27:09
Paragraph in. 01:27:18
It is. 01:27:20
Well, there's a, there's a section in that that relates to. 01:27:27
Few positions. 01:27:32
That report directly to the mayor and are hired directly by the mayor, but are not city officers. 01:27:34
It's a communications director and I think another communications staff member. And so there was a request, I think on your part 01:27:40
to change a comma to a semi colon so it was clear. 01:27:46
Which positions would? 01:27:52
Appointed by the council and then which positions report to the mayor and are just hired by the mayor but are not officers? That 01:27:55
was our discussion and I I think we should add that the powers haven't changed. It was just clarified according to the removal 01:28:01
process because the whole area was being clarified as far as the removal. Is that right? 01:28:08
That's correct. OK. 01:28:15
So you're saying that we've been performing this way all this time, we just didn't have it in code? 01:28:17
This is not a departure from the approval process that the city has followed, at least in the time that I've been. 01:28:23
The city attorney, there has not been language in the code about removal. We haven't ever confronted that issue, at least in the 01:28:29
time that I've been the city attorney. And so the thought was if we're going to be clear about how someone's appointed, we ought 01:28:34
to be clear about how someone's removed. 01:28:39
Yeah, I understand that. I think my concern is I'm seeing the cross outlines where we're changing it from the governing body, 01:28:44
which would be 3 votes. 01:28:48
Would make the decision like most of our votes do. And I know that there's exceptions to that rule, but I just don't understand 01:28:53
why there's an exception to this rule. And I would feel really comfortable just moving this to a different week if you'd like so 01:28:58
we have time to work on this and make it better. 01:29:02
Or at least have time for me to fully understand the. 01:29:08
The long term consequences because. 01:29:13
With whatever we have now, let's look at the dynamic of, you know, Mayor Julie Fulmer and the council that's sitting here and what 01:29:16
our intentions are. I just want to make sure that in the future, we don't know who's going to be on the council. We don't know who 01:29:22
our mayor is going to be. And I want to make sure that these rules are consistent and appropriate for long term. 01:29:28
Sammy, did you want to clarify anything on that or talk about the long term feel like the form of government doesn't change or 01:29:36
processes don't change and the the real power over the council is the same. Our government, our governing form remains the same. 01:29:42
Well it says right here it's changing now in certain areas. 01:29:48
Yeah, it's it's outlying, outlining a process. 01:29:56
So there's nothing. It's giving a process for how we do things and functions, so it's just clarifying the code. 01:30:00
Well, hold on, hold on. We're having a deliberation when you have an opportunity to make a comment or you agree with something you 01:30:08
can raise. 01:30:13
Go ahead. So Mayor, to your quit. I apologize. 01:30:18
To your question, Mayor, it doesn't change the form of government. It does. 01:30:23
State what the appointment and the removal process is for that I I don't want to. 01:30:27
My role is to advise the Council and to give you my best advice. 01:30:34
I don't vote and so I just want to be sensitive to the fact that Marty does, I don't and and it's her choice. 01:30:38
Procedurally, if it's something that you wanted to move to a later agenda, you could make a motion, see if the council supported 01:30:45
you, and it could be moved. 01:30:49
Otherwise, the mayor sets the agenda. 01:30:54
When the time comes to call for a question, you can vote. I think the question I was hoping you would answer, she had a question 01:30:57
on the long term effects of this and she was concerned about the long term effects of it. 01:31:02
And I think that it should be widely discussed. I think that it shouldn't just be something that we feel rushed and then making a 01:31:08
decision about, because I think that the powers and duties. 01:31:13
Of the council on the mayor important and I think that this to me if it's. 01:31:17
If it's not dramatically changing it if it's the. 01:31:23
What we've been performing. 01:31:28
I just don't know why there's so many things red. 01:31:30
Because that to me is a big change. And then the other side of it and this. 01:31:33
No, I agree with you. There is a process that's happening that there's been clarifications when I say that our government, our 01:31:38
form of government shouldn't change, the real, the real authority of the council didn't change was still A5 member with a quorum 01:31:44
of three. So all things are done by that standard. This is just a process that lets us know how we've been running our 01:31:50
appointments and now it clarifies how we can remove them. I think it's a good process for a lot of reasons It's it gives a lot of 01:31:56
comfort and solidifies. 01:32:02
Protections for our. 01:32:08
For our directors and our the appointments that are here. 01:32:11
But like I said, no real authority is changed in this. If you don't feel comfortable with it, that's OK. If you're asking me how I 01:32:15
feel about it, I feel comfortable with it. I think it's a simple terminology. 01:32:21
That I don't. Like I said, it doesn't change the actual. 01:32:28
Authority of the Governing Body. 01:32:32
So and I appreciate that you're comfortable with it. 01:32:35
If I would like to make a motion to postpone the vote so that you could help me become more comfortable with, that's great. 01:32:39
Can I get a second on Marty? 01:32:46
All right. Please just raise your hand if you agree. Can I say something? 01:32:53
Right, this is there's a lot of pressure on everyone here and I don't want booing. I feel like we're all listening to you and I am 01:32:58
trying to make a motion, and booing doesn't necessarily make my council members want to support me more. 01:33:04
So I would really appreciate if you guys were respectful to them. I'm asking them to support and giving me more time to understand 01:33:10
this and if they choose not to and they feel comfortable with it, that's their choice and I respect that on the council. 01:33:16
As much as it would disappoint. 01:33:23
OK, I don't have a second. Hold on. Oh, OK, hold on one. 01:33:27
Now that we're in this, do I need to take comment from the public? 01:33:33
You'll need to note for the record of the meeting. But there was no second. There wasn't a second. It sounds like there was not, 01:33:37
and so note that and then when you're prepared to receive. 01:33:41
Public comment on this. 01:33:46
I will ask everybody in the audience to please refrain from interrupting us when we're talking. You will have an opportunity on 01:33:48
the items on the agenda to speak. 01:33:52
But we need to make sure that the recorder has down what has occurred with the vote before we move to that point. 01:33:57
OK, Marty made a motion to continue this. There was no second because we're not going with all the things or because there's no 01:34:05
motion on what was currently addressed by some of the members of the public. There were some people that wanted to talk about 6.7. 01:34:12
Please come to the podium, state your name and if. 01:34:19
If you agree, raise your hand. 01:34:26
And do not repeat the comments please, so that we can move through the agendas on the business items on the agenda. 01:34:29
Over 18 months ago. 01:34:37
Jacob hold. 01:34:39
We found the with the alone and documents and letters OK. 01:34:44
And you denied they existed, Mayor, and that's when we started down that path. 01:34:48
That's what this entire campaign was in. Our original Vineyard Politico meeting was getting access and the oversight and the 01:34:56
ability of the council, and that's why the entire citizen process took place. 01:35:03
The entire process #3 on the Vineyard political platform. So then I'll answer your question. I'll let you continue. 01:35:12
I know. Let me get. 01:35:20
We also have it on record. Hold on, let me respond to you for a second and then I'd like to continue. OK, so. 01:35:22
This does not take any opportunity for you to put in an investigation. 01:35:30
To it changes the ability for me to vote because it would be a supermajority once seated if you wanted to fire somebody. 01:35:35
I don't need an extra vote. It's changing, it's it's delineating and specifying different from what it has. It wasn't written 01:35:42
before in code. 01:35:47
Let me explain it to you so that you understand it better. Everyone understands it is there. 01:35:53
I think everyone understands that it would take four and it was not written in code before that. 01:35:58
Yes, according to I know, but we're not going to be spoken down, right? 01:36:04
We're adding something to a. 01:36:08
Right. And constitutionally, it was not in there. And you guys, we just barely won an election. 01:36:10
On. 01:36:19
OK. And after winning the election, you're changing the rules on this? 01:36:21
When that investigation is placed, we already have Lehigh, we already have Provo. We already have American 4 constituencies. We 01:36:27
have the state forestry and fire and state land already on the record about what our city manager did. Have we been able to bring 01:36:33
the documents? No. Have we had a public hearing? No. We will do that in in January and I will have that ability. But by 01:36:40
handcuffing the ability to go from three votes to four changes radically, what happens? 01:36:46
Radically. 01:36:55
What I'm trying to explain to you is that you still maintain the same powers. 01:36:57
OK. 01:37:05
Somebody else can explain it to you, but no real powers change. I'm trying to clarify it to you so that you can understand no real 01:37:07
powers change, so you're actually your hands are not tied. 01:37:12
If you put an investigation, you can actually proceed if there's something wrong. If somebody has done something wrong, this does 01:37:17
not tie your hands. You don't actually need 4 votes. 01:37:22
Well, can I ask for a clarification? I guess what I don't understand is this. 01:37:28
You're asking us to postpone standard business for something that you don't understand. 01:37:36
You're. 01:37:42
Hold on. You are concerned that these things will occur. I am telling you it is not impede your ability to put an investigation or 01:37:43
fire somebody that's done something illegal. 01:37:48
And so there's no reason for us to stop that from happening. I mean, Jamie, if somebody has done something illegal and if somebody 01:37:54
wants to put in an investigation, that has nothing to do with this process, is that correct? We're not here today fighting for the 01:38:01
ability to have an investigation because one will be done. What we are fighting for is that the counting and the ability of the 01:38:07
power of the council over your authority is equal. That's what we're fighting for. So we're not talking about the investigation. 01:38:13
You're doing a word salad here. 01:38:19
What I've told you, and I'll try to be clear, is that this is a process that talks about the majority and how the majority works. 01:38:25
Your I understand. Jake, let me explain it to you. 01:38:32
But you are in the governing body. I have a 5 member council. 01:38:40
That means that free can always change the law, so your hands are never tied. Do you understand? So AM. 01:38:45
So why codify it to 4:00 to 1:00 if you're on the side? Because it gives you authority more. 01:38:52
There's nobody here. If you don't want it, you just change it. 01:39:00
That's the point. 01:39:05
OK, everybody, if you want to make a comment, you have to come to the microphone and state your name. 01:39:09
Come to the microphone and have it on record what you're saying. 01:39:16
On every item on the agenda there will be an opportunity for people to come to the microphone and make comments. 01:39:28
But if people speak over either the common. 01:39:35
Or the members of the council that are speaking, we'll have the sheriff remove you. 01:39:38
So that we can keep order in the meeting. 01:39:44
We don't want to do that. 01:39:46
So Please wait until that opportunity. 01:39:49
Do you? Do you have a different point than where? 01:39:52
I just wanted, I just wanted to read to you what's in the municipal code right now. I'm sorry David Delay in your resident. 01:39:56
I'm looking here in the Unicode section of our website. 01:40:02
And it's this section 2.810, Item East. 01:40:07
And here it says and this is regarding City Manager. This is the only one that specifies. So it's the line go with you know you 01:40:12
want to add others. 01:40:15
That makes sense probably, to do that, but it says the city manager self-serve at the place of the governing body and may be 01:40:20
removed anytime, with or without cause by a majority vote. 01:40:25
Of the Governing. 01:40:30
Studied, however, to the provisions and so forth. 01:40:32
And so it seems to me that by enacting. 01:40:35
This amendment, you would be increasing that. 01:40:39
Requirements. So it no longer would be a majority of the governing body, but it would be a supermajority, would take four of the 01:40:43
five. Jamie, do you have anything that you want to add on that? 01:40:50
No I don't I I think that is the change the the the code right now has states governing body please stop doing it. 01:40:58
So that that section of the code speaks to appointment and removal by the governing body period and then we have additional 01:41:08
contractual obligations. 01:41:12
Sure, there's an employment agreement with the city manager. 01:41:18
There you have to abide by the provisions of that agreement, and state law allows for that. 01:41:22
What this does is clarify the removal process for. 01:41:28
The city manager and all of the appointment officials with the. 01:41:32
On removal, it's a majority vote with the mayor. Or it would. 01:41:37
A vote of four if the mayor is not part of that majority. 01:41:41
So I understand that this is a change you specified and if I understand properly, it'll take four members of the City Council to 01:41:46
vote in favor of a removal the current, the current, if we accept this amendment. 01:41:53
If not, then it looks like it's the majority vote of the governing body, which I have interpreted as three of the five. 01:42:00
Is that a correct assessment of that? 01:42:07
I I just read what the changes are. 01:42:11
OK, so. 01:42:14
So thank you for the clarification. 01:42:16
David, did you feel like you? I feel that understanding. I understand it. I feel like it's also a paragraph. 01:42:19
Thank you. 01:42:27
OK, all right, Council, how do you feel? Because this is up to you. 01:42:28
I think, I think that we've heard the comment and that we know that you guys don't want it. I just want one clarification. If 01:42:37
there's somebody that wants to say something where they do want it, you can go ahead and otherwise just raise your hand that you 01:42:41
don't want it. 01:42:45
I just want one clar. 01:42:51
Everyone knows what this is this is about. 01:42:54
A previous Council cannot bind the hands of the current Council correct on this statute, an ordinance, a future. 01:42:58
I'm asking the attorney, so if if come January 1st. 01:43:09
Three of us come back to change the ordinances. 01:43:13
And we want to change it back to go back to since there wasn't a change tonight apparently. 01:43:16
I'll answer your question when when the new council members are seated. 01:43:22
The council will be the governing body for the city, right and and a. 01:43:27
Council cannot find the current council on this decision and ordinance, right. Future council has the same right this council does 01:43:31
to change the past city ordinances. That's that's what I was explaining to you. That's why I said no real power has changed. And 01:43:38
even though you're a 5 member council, you always have the majority to change the law. So I'm going to end our comments on this 01:43:44
because we understand. Yeah, go ahead. 01:43:50
Does it take a supermajority to change this ordinance or is it just the majority? No, it's just that majority. OK, OK. All right. 01:43:57
Can I get a? 01:44:06
Are you're closing public hearing? It's not a public hearing. You're closing public comment. 01:44:08
Yes, because we understand what the concerns are, we understand we are now in deliberation for it. 01:44:13
OK. Would any other council feel like they need more to understand that the people here do not want us? Or would you like to talk 01:44:23
more? 01:44:27
OK. Would anybody else like to hear additional public comment? Would you like to hear additional public comment? 01:44:31
You are judged by your last, worst act. 01:44:36
How many are we talking? I don't want to be here till midnight. 01:44:42
Now you need a second. 01:44:49
So. 01:44:52
Not about. 01:44:55
Minus about supporting. 01:44:57
Councilman that called for. 01:44:59
And the silence from everybody else. 01:45:03
Volumes of how you believe. I want to support Marty for having the courage to step forward and explain. Please raise your hand. We 01:45:07
need you to stop clapping. Thank you. 01:45:13
I live in Vineyard. I've been there for three years. Good morning. Thank you. 01:45:21
At first I think all right. 01:45:27
I need. 01:45:29
Please give me a motion, whatever you want to do. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve, 6.7 stated. 01:45:32
Sheriff, would you like to remove some people? 01:45:40
Well, if they don't shut up, then we need to remove them. 01:45:44
All right, Tyson, we're in the middle of the motion. Please continue. 01:45:50
That we approve the motion understanding that the new Council can reverse this motion in two weeks. 01:45:54
All right. Can I get a second? 01:46:01
2nd. 01:46:04
This is done by ordinance. I'm just going to do a roll call size. 01:46:07
Amber, yay. Marty, Christy. OK. Thank you. We can go on to our. 01:46:11
Next agenda items and. This brings us to. 01:46:18
Public hearing this is 9.1. Jamie, will you go ahead and introduce this item? 01:46:22
So item 9.1 and I'm filling in here for Morgan Brim Morgan's, our Planning Director. 01:46:34
He had a medical emergency on his way. 01:46:41
I've been asked to introduce the item briefly. 01:46:44
There. 01:46:46
There has been an. 01:46:50
Buy into the Utah Inland. 01:46:52
To create an inland port project area. 01:46:54
Within the municipal boundaries. And so the mayor has invited the executive director from the Inland Court to come and speak a 01:46:58
little bit about that process, what it entails. 01:47:03
What it would mean for the? 01:47:10
And then an opportunity for the council to educate itself through that conversation. 01:47:12
I was just asked if I had my bulletproof vest on. I really hope I don't need one. 01:47:16
Let me just take a step back. State your name, please. Yes, my name is Ben Hart. I'm the executive director of the Utah and Port 01:47:24
Authority and. 01:47:28
So, and I'll speak to both the crowd into the council. 01:47:32
Look, folks, and I'm not from your community. 01:47:38
And but one of my jobs professionally, In fact, not only professionally, but also academically. 01:47:43
Is to understand communities and regions, particularly through an economic perspective. 01:47:49
A couple weeks ago, last month, I had a chance to bring my son Spencer. He's a great kid. They had the special needs like football 01:47:56
tournament down here in Vineyard and so I had a chance to. 01:48:02
Had a chance to ride front Runner into your beautiful station and to walk up 800 N. 01:48:08
You get a feel for a community when you walk through a community. 01:48:14
So whether you want it or not. 01:48:18
Give you some advice and what I see happening in vineyard. 01:48:21
I think this is a community that, more than anything else, is growing really, really fast. 01:48:26
And I'm going to say way too fast. 01:48:32
You are in the fastest growing county. My guess is you might be the fastest growing city. 01:48:35
In the fastest growing state in the country. 01:48:40
What I've heard tonight and what I've seen is I've walked through your community. 01:48:44
Is you are struggling to come to terms with who you are as a city. 01:48:49
The Inland Port Authority is not going to be the reason that this community tears itself apart. 01:48:55
We won't. I won't allow it and I'm not going to bring it to my board. 01:49:02
So let me just say conclusively that regardless of what happens tonight and what decision this Council chooses to make. 01:49:07
If the will of the council choose or changes a month from now. 01:49:14
There is no inland port moving forward in Ven. 01:49:19
Understand. 01:49:25
OK. Can I move forward now? Perhaps give some education as to what we actually do? 01:49:26
Because I think it's been misrepresented in the community the last couple weeks, if that's fair. 01:49:33
Now let me also say that tonight we are not creating an inland port in vineyard. That's not what we're here to do. 01:49:37
What is allowed for and what is? 01:49:45
Statutorily required. 01:49:50
Is that a community? 01:49:52
Must give their permission for the inland port to come in. 01:49:54
Again, and I want to reiterate this, if the will of the council changes over the next month and I've had a chance to speak with 01:50:00
Councilman elect pulled away on this, I understand his position. 01:50:04
If the will of the Council changes, we will not be moving forward with an end report. 01:50:10
The process from. 01:50:16
With an adoption, should the Council choose to pass this resolution tonight? 01:50:20
It's the start of a. 01:50:25
Our process is that we then come in, we identify what the public purpose actually is. 01:50:28
I'm going to share this story. I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but I'm going to share it anyway. 01:50:36
I judged my time, my drive time tonight to get into Utah County and to get into Orem. 01:50:40
I thought 45 minutes was going to be plenty. Guess what? Wasn't nearly enough. I don't know how people stay in that traffic day 01:50:47
after day, week after week, year after year. It's insane. 01:50:52
What I've heard tonight. 01:50:59
We don't, We don't like. 01:51:01
And yet we're going to continue to put everything on cars. 01:51:04
And I understand there's feelings of we want to grow the right way. I hear that as well. But the whole notion of we don't want to 01:51:08
keep putting everything on cars. Utah is overly dependent on our vehicles. 01:51:15
If you have not figured that out after this meeting to this group of folks tonight, let me tell you, a lot of the problems that 01:51:22
I've heard about are too many cars coming through your community. 01:51:26
Too much volume. Utah has a higher percentage of trucks on the road than any other state in the country. 01:51:31
We also send more of our cargo outside of the state of Utah. 01:51:40
Than we like to admit Eric Cargo for example, we send 92% of air cargo out of our state on a truck. 01:51:44
As opposed to actually being able to send it within our community, Utah is horribly underserved when it comes to multimodal 01:51:52
transportation. 01:51:56
So let me talk about what the port is actually doing. We have two missions. I have a beautiful slide show. Not going to show it 01:52:00
because I don't think it's relevant. 01:52:04
But what I am going to talk about, you can see our front side is beautiful. If we want to go to the next slide, I'm not sure who's 01:52:09
got the. 01:52:12
But let me. 01:52:16
What our goals are are two. 01:52:18
And this is absolutely related to growth in both. 01:52:21
One, we can't continue to put everything on the road. If we do, we're going to fail future generations. 01:52:25
We have to become a much more sophisticated multimodal state. 01:52:31
Or else we're going to continue to put more crap in the air. Pollution in the air, We're going to leave behind a lot of 01:52:36
communities economically. That's the reality. 01:52:40
So you have a choice in terms of how you're going to grow as a community. Are you going to continue to rely on the status quo? 01:52:44
Or the 2nd. 01:52:52
Which I believe is absolutely critical for communities. 01:52:54
Is Are you going to understand who you want to be? 01:52:57
This struggle for identity. 01:53:01
I'm telling you, you let issues rip you apart. This community is never going to get to be where any of you want it to be. I 01:53:03
promise, I've seen that happen. 01:53:07
All up and down the Wasatch Front. It's really unfortunate. Suburban sprawl is an absolute problem in the state of Utah. You want 01:53:12
to know why it happens? Because people can't work together. 01:53:17
Dividing lines start to occur. I'm going to tell this entire community you don't get along. 01:53:23
You're headed that same dire. 01:53:28
That's what I've heard tonight. 01:53:31
So I. 01:53:32
You want to come together and be able to fix these issues. Please do. 01:53:34
Be willing to put down some of your swords and be willing to work together in terms of what you all want for your community. 01:53:38
If the inland port can help you get there. 01:53:45
If we can create better multimodal transportation. 01:53:48
And that means that rail has to be part of your future. I know that's not a popular dynamic here in the city. 01:53:52
But the other part of this too, is you can't keep sending your kids into Salt Lake to work. You have to have good economic base. 01:53:58
Here within the county. 01:54:05
We've relied on tech. We love tech here in Utah County. The reality is you have to diversify into other types of economic growth. 01:54:06
If you don't, then you're going to see that continued economic sprawl that's destroyed so many other parts of the state. 01:54:14
You have to diversify what you have locally. That's what the inland port is about. How do we create multimodal transportation? 01:54:22
And second, how do we create better economic growth within the within the community? 01:54:31
Anybody that's here to tell you that we are here to destroy the wetlands or to destroy your quality of life, that is absolutely 01:54:37
not correct. 01:54:40
And for us, I think the most important thing that we can offer and that we can help with is helping you achieve your long term. 01:54:45
Growth goals. 01:54:52
And I'm going to tell you got him like look around. I think it's obvious to see that you guys are growing like crazy. If if you, 01:54:55
if you can't grow the way that is going to best serve future generations, you're just going to end up in the same stalemate. So 01:55:01
mayor and council, it's your choice if you want to move forward with this resolution. It's up to you. 01:55:07
And if you choose to postpone it, we're fine with that if you pass it and a future. 01:55:13
Council decides to. 01:55:20
Then that we will respect the will of the Council. 01:55:23
In any situation, then I can't speak for the full council, but I think we were just excited to learn what an inland port, what is 01:55:26
and isn't. And as we've been exploring this together with you, we kind of just want to be here options. I didn't plan on holding 01:55:34
the public hearing tonight. As we've said, it may or may not happen because I can't vote for the whole body, but I expect that the 01:55:42
majority of the council wants to just learn about it and understand it. And so that's kind of what we're hoping for. 01:55:49
And you know, a lot of people are feeling a lot of passion about it, but I think that's why we wanted to do this, so that we 01:55:57
could. 01:56:00
Understand it. Well, let me walk you through a couple slides and if we can go to the next slide. So let me just explain and what 01:56:03
our goals are in terms of what we bring. So what it is, if you think about the point of the mountain, you think about a lot of 01:56:09
entities that are coming together to serve one economic area, specifically the point of the mountain. How do you bring that same 01:56:15
concept and bring a lot of different resources to help communities grow? 01:56:20
And So what we bring is an infrastructure bank that the city would have access to help with different types of growth needs. 01:56:26
We also bring the ability to create tax increment. Tax increment is tax based property taxes that ultimately are derived from a 01:56:33
specific geographic area. We are not going to take any funds out of your community. Everything will stay locally within Vineyard, 01:56:39
everything will stay within the project area. For those who worry that there's an existing RDA, these can layer on top of each 01:56:46
other and you can reinvest both. 01:56:52
Not only the existing tax increment that other available resources as well. So in terms of being able to create a process that 01:57:01
allows you again to reinvest and tap into resources to help with growth. 01:57:07
That's absolutely what we're about. If we go to the next slide real quick, let me just say our first area is in the Northwest 01:57:13
quadrant. I'll just use that as a really quick example. That area we're looking at how volume rolls in and out of that community, 01:57:18
the Northwest water and Salt Lake City. 01:57:24
And as a secondary source of strength as well, the types of jobs that that community wants. 01:57:30
So biotech, you know research based advanced manufacturing, Boeing is in that area, L3, Harris, Northrop Grumman, BD Bio, Mary 01:57:36
you. I mean it's an area of economic strength. We don't have enough of those and that's why we're sending more and more people to 01:57:43
work in Salt Lake City. How do we create areas, particularly industrial economic strength in other places along the Wasatch Front? 01:57:50
How do we make sure that volume is flowing in the right ways? If we can go to the next slide, again, just an aerial shot. Oh, 01:57:57
sorry, next one. 01:58:01
Aerial shot of what the northwest quadrant looks like. That is 1 area if we can go to the next. 01:58:06
These are our existing areas, so these are communities that we have already worked with to create existing project areas. Spanish 01:58:10
Fork, obviously just down the street, Golden Spike and Box, Elder County, Willow Valley, 21 Wells and Grantsville. 01:58:17
Burke is the one in Spanish Fork, Central Utah, Agra Park, Mineral Mountain Iron. 01:58:25
And and just if you can go to the next slide, whoever's controlling? 01:58:30
But, and let's go to the next one. 01:58:34
So what I'm going to say here just in conclusion. 01:58:37
Look, we want to be something that can help the community. If we're not, we don't need to be here. 01:58:41
If we're something that continually helped bringing the resources of the state to try and create a place of economic strength for 01:58:46
the community to help you with some of your growth needs, we're all about that. That's what the Inland port represents. 01:58:52
Not just growth, but how do we grow in the right ways? I know you're going to hear a lot of different things about the port, and 01:58:58
I'm sure you already have, but at its heart, that's what we're trying to do. The county or excuse me, the community council, 01:59:04
whatever version and whatever current form is going to be able to choose and bind the inland port to act in a way that they feel 01:59:10
appropriate. We've done that in several other communities through interlocal agreements. 01:59:15
And and so. 01:59:22
I know I'm not going to convince everyone here tonight. I hope I can at least educate the council and give you a sense for what we 01:59:25
do and how we can help. 01:59:28
So I read a little bit about the financing that goes into this and I understand how it layers. Can you talk a little bit about the 01:59:33
controls as far as if you weren't to enter into a resolution like this, would our land vest or would you use that zoning from when 01:59:40
we start the agreement and then it kind of changes or how does that work? No. So we don't have any land use authority. The city 01:59:47
will maintain zoning throughout the process. So there's no vesting if you choose to go from M1 to M2 or from M1 to R1, It's 01:59:54
totally up to the City Council. 02:00:01
So there's no vestige of rights at the time of adoption and I do want to stress this, it's not the City Council that will adopt 02:00:08
the project area, it is the Utah and the Port Authority. 02:00:12
So the Board ultimately has to go through a two cycle process. Both of them will allow for public comment and public hearings. And 02:00:18
then ultimately what we do is totally defer to the local community with regards to land use. But then again, our approach with 02:00:25
regards to the financing is making sure that all of the money is reinvested back into the community how the community wants. 02:00:32
And so we're not coming in saying this is a predisposed, you have to do this. We want to make sure that we're growing in ways that 02:00:40
are targeted around smart transportation growth. 02:00:45
And also smart economic growth and we have added a third one as of late that is also environmental stewardship. 02:00:50
And is it still in effect until the project area is adopted and then it starts having considerations? Or how does that 02:01:31
relationship work long term? 02:01:35
No, we're here to help the community achieve their goals. And so as we're working through what is a 25 or 40 year partnership, we 02:01:41
do have a baseline that we established up front. But what it is, is we come back for an annual review and I'll tell you right now 02:01:47
we do a weekly meeting with our cities as well. So when we're talking with cities, it's what are you looking for? Do you want to 02:01:53
attract the right type of business to your community? And I'll tell you, I see a really strong residential base in Vineyard, I 02:01:59
mean to keep. 02:02:05
Taxes from skyrocketing having into an industrial base is really going to help and it's not just about jobs, but it's also about 02:02:11
helping develop a good quality of life in terms of tax structure etcetera. So you and I'm taking all the questions, but you kind 02:02:17
of mentioned that there were several different projects. 02:02:23
Are there different types of projects? I know a lot of it is based around rail, but there's different modes. I thought I read 02:02:29
something about an Agra, like an Agra project cite or yeah, it's totally it. It's the behest of the county. Or excuse me in this 02:02:35
case, the city, Niagara Park was part of Juab County, so they gave us the direction there. In this case, it's totally at the 02:02:42
direction of the city. So is the city wants to see certain types of growth? 02:02:48
And we've done growth related to trails up in. 02:02:54
North of Boxelda, Garland, we've worked on some economic projects up there. We really have the flexibility we feel like to come in 02:03:01
and again help to reinvest in the right. 02:03:06
Somebody mentioned this earlier, but it's not just about development. Development can happen. 02:03:11
It's about the right kinds of development and it's about making sure that you don't overpower in your community. 02:03:16
That's not what we're about. So we want to make sure that whatever we're doing is right size and is in accordance with how this 02:03:22
city is developing. OK. And just a little bit extra, could you just kind of briefly explained a little bit more about the 02:03:27
finances? So we have an RDA, they're pretty similar. We understand they can layer, but what are their opportunities are different 02:03:33
from the RDA that you guys have? 02:03:39
Well, one, access to the infrastructure bank. This is important and it's an area we receive criticism. I'm going to say it's 02:03:45
probably just criticism. 02:03:49
The City Council acts as the voice for all downstream tax entities. 02:03:55
So once the City Council and actually passes a resolution, it actually binds all of the downstream taxing. 02:04:00
So that can't happen just from the City Council. It has to go through our board process ultimately to be created. But over a 25 02:04:08
year period it would lay overlay over the top of the existing Rea and none of the money that's been invested in for the cleaning 02:04:15
of that would be lost again, all of it is reinvested back into. 02:04:21
This area. 02:04:30
Well, to give you just some insights on what we're doing, we recently, I mean we've been planning and growing so fast. 02:04:31
But we recently started kind of looking more deeply into the type of businesses and industry we want to do on the east side of our 02:04:39
development. This is kind of in the project area we were looking in and we started planning. 02:04:45
A long time ago, but we're getting to this point where I think we're, we want more discussion and so we pushed that off into the 02:04:54
New Year. 02:04:56
So council from me, I I feel like since we push that off into the new year, it would be really great to kind of wrap our heads 02:05:00
around what that looks like and then keep, you know, we can keep having conversations, but that's where I feel like we need to be. 02:05:07
And then? 02:05:14
Also, we really understand the RDA and we have a lot of good resources right now, but we're always looking for opportunities to 02:05:15
make sure the vision of the city. 02:05:20
Goes forward. So I don't think we need to have a public hearing tonight from my perspective because I don't think we can have 02:05:25
meaningful discussion on this. 02:05:29
I feel like the public and the conversations that we need to have are just a little bit deeper than this, but do you guys have 02:05:34
questions up front about anything you want then to go find for us so that we can keep examining it as a council or anything? 02:05:42
Anything for future discussions? I had one thing I wanted to clarify, so you mentioned. 02:05:51
If a council passed. 02:05:57
And it still goes to your board for approval. So that wouldn't actually that's not a motion to actually have it work. It's to get 02:05:59
in line I would assume to get approval and there's a long line, I mean the the communities that I showed you earlier. 02:06:07
Quite frankly, just the ones that have been approved, right, I don't. 02:06:14
You should jump in line just to jump in line, right? And I think he. 02:06:18
What would that be a long time? It could be, I I mean, we don't know. I mean it could be late 2024, it could be 2025. 02:06:24
It's so it's something that we just have to review and make sure that it goes through the right process. We just our staff is 15 02:06:32
people we just can't go through and write 25, you know project area planning budgets. We've got to be methodical and use our 02:06:40
resources wisely. So thank you, I I appreciate the discussion and thank you for the questions you brought up Mayor. 02:06:47
We're OK with that. 02:07:29
And I don't even know if we'd be ready by then just because we're going through our development process, but maybe. 02:07:30
But this, yeah, we're always looking for these discussions and opportunities, but this is, this is great. Do you have any other 02:07:38
questions for us or that we should be prepared for if we want to come back and have more discussions at some later point? No, I 02:07:43
think just having a very clear understanding of where you want this development to go, I mean. 02:07:49
Is an industrial based, you know something that you want? How do you want to design that? What are you know? You talk about design 02:07:56
guidelines, What other implementations? Potentially zoning overlays? 02:08:01
But we still have work to do. I just want to strengthen the public hearing and then allow it to be re noticed in the future 02:08:38
instead of continuing it. 02:08:43
OK. Thank you for your presentation. 02:08:49
So procedurally mayor, since it's noticed for. 02:08:56
Where it's noticed for a public hearing, you either have to. 02:09:02
Hold the public hearing or. 02:09:06
To table the item and then, so the public's aware, there is a process. 02:09:08
And then mentioned that a little bit that relates to the Inland Court approvals. There's also a process when the city takes it up 02:09:15
that it has to be done by public hearing. So if and when the council. 02:09:21
Decided to take this up in the next year. 02:09:27
And that's not a guarantee even that it will, but it'll be re noticed. And then there will be a public hearing at that time at the 02:09:30
City Council meeting. OK, I need a motion then to table it. I move that we table this item to the pleasure of the new council when 02:09:36
they come in. 02:09:41
Second OK, First by tie, Second by Chrissy. All in favor, Aye. Any opposed? OK, we'll go ahead and move into 9.2. Discussion and 02:09:47
action. You can leave the right of way and land donation and development agreement. 02:09:54
Will you be presenting this? 02:10:01
Thank you, Jamie. 02:10:05
There are two items back-to-back that relate to development of the Geneva, the former Geneva steel property this one relates to. 02:10:06
The Geneva East side, there was a public hearing. 02:10:20
Yeah, hold on. Can you let them know that we've moved on to the next agenda point and then let them know to go and talk out there? 02:10:24
Thank you. 02:10:28
OK, this, this is item 9.1. I'll try to speak up so everybody can hear me. 02:10:54
Nine point. 02:11:00
Or a win 9.2 Thank you 9.2. 02:11:01
On the December 6th meeting, there was a public hearing held on this item. 02:11:05
It's been separated at the request of the developer from one agreement to two agreements. The first agreement is a right of way 02:11:09
and land donation agreement and the second agreement is the development agreement. They accomplished 2 separate things. The 02:11:15
development agreement entitles the developers right to develop the property. 02:11:20
According to the land use regulations and the agreements that are in place presently. 02:11:26
The Right of way and land donation agreement donates land to the city for the right of way. 02:11:31
For a future Mill Road and then 5 acres for a future fire station. 02:11:36
And I'll just note there was a public comment about a cemetery and how. 02:11:42
How and whether land would be donated for a cemetery? 02:11:46
This land donation agreement is done at the request of the applicant, in this case the developer of this property. 02:11:50
And it doesn't pro. 02:11:58
The dedication or the donation of. 02:12:00
Land in the future. It just identifies the two items that are in the agreement and it's done for a mixture of making sure the city 02:12:04
has that before the improvements in the planning for the improvements takes place. 02:12:10
And then there's the reason on the developer side that they make the donation. 02:12:17
When it's helpful to their financing and the overall structure of the of the project? 02:12:23
OK. Jamie, since we talked about that stipulation being added last time, but we didn't actually vote on it because we moved it, do 02:12:30
we need to add that stipulation back into this? 02:12:35
Was that did we put that on that this item, this, this has been modified into the two agreements they're they're in the packet. 02:12:40
I've reviewed everything. 02:12:46
Portion of that. I don't believe the cemeteries in this. 02:12:52
OK. I think what we talked the fire station that wasn't in it before the cemeteries, I think you know we talked about the ability 02:12:55
to do the fire station, but talked about producing land use and exceptions for that in the with the cemetery, is that right? 02:13:03
I don't know where Morgan. 02:13:11
Right now, yeah. 02:13:13
And City Council Pete Evans. 02:13:18
So the cemetery, I didn't specifically put the cemetery in because there wasn't really a good place to put it. 02:13:20
But we're happy to stipulate that we'll work in good faith. 02:13:27
Try to identify a location for a cemetery in the future, if there's an appropriate place to put one. Yeah, OK, I think that's fine 02:13:31
for me. I can just add that using exactly the language you just you just stated. Does anybody have anything additional from the 02:13:37
last conversation that we had? Any further deliberation needed? If not, I need a motion. 02:13:43
There I move We approve the two agreements land donation and development agreement with Anderson Geneva LLC with the addition as 02:13:50
noted by. 02:13:55
Fiona, OK, first by tie, second, second by Amber. I'm just going to do it by roll call ties. Amber, I, I, Marty, Christy. OK, 02:14:00
great. We'll go ahead and move on to 9.3 discussion action, First Amendment to the Geneva West side property. 02:14:09
Item 9.3 is an amendment to a property land donation and development agreement that was first entered into by the city and the 02:14:19
developer on May 13th, 2020. 02:14:24
The original agreement identified Landon donated by the developer for certain public improvements and participation by the RDA on 02:14:29
those public improvements. 02:14:34
This amendment does 4 things. Primarily, it separates the tax increment collection period into two phases. 02:14:39
It authorizes the RDA to reimburse the developer for parking costs. 02:14:46
The developer donates the Lake Promenade property to the city. 02:14:50
And the developer donates public roadways throughout the project. 02:14:54
A question may come up why we held a public hearing on the first agreement and not a public hearing on this amendment. 02:14:59
And the answer to that is that. 02:15:05
First set of agreements Effects of land. 02:15:08
Right that the developer holds and that the city controls. 02:15:11
And where land use is involved, there's a public hearing that's required. As a part of that, the land use component to the West 02:15:15
Side property land Emission Development agreement was done in 2020. 02:15:21
This is an administrative action, not a land use action, and so the amendment. 02:15:27
Can be adopted without. 02:15:34
OK. Are there any questions by the council on this item? 02:15:36
So, OK, the public in the hall was notified. Were there any questions from the audience? 02:15:42
9.3 Do you have a question? 02:15:55
Come on up. Can you set your name and where you're from please? Tiffany Stevens from Vineyard? Can you clarify exactly the RDA 02:16:01
firms will be used for this, the amount? 02:16:06
And if this can be tabled for later so that the citizens can have time to look into the RDA funds. So I think that in this recent 02:16:12
election was very clear most of the citizens didn't agree with using taxpayer funds to support development of the high density 02:16:17
projects that are we coming up. So can you clarify that for me? 02:16:23
So I had to run in here from work someone. 02:16:30
No, that's a good question and the applicant may have some information on this as well. But when RDA funds are used to reimburse. 02:16:33
A developer for activities, what you're really talking about our future tax revenues generated by the development. 02:16:43
So the property as it sits. 02:16:50
Is not actively used, it's fellow man. 02:16:53
And so there is. 02:16:57
Significant tax revenue that is derived from the property once it's developed there will be and so you take an increment from 02:16:59
that. 02:17:03
And you can use that increment to pay for the public amenities and the public features. 02:17:07
Of that development. So in this case it's it'll pay for things like roadways, parking, sewer. 02:17:15
Strong water infrast. 02:17:23
And then the way the city structures that is before a specific reimbursement is authorized. 02:17:25
The Redevelopment Agency. 02:17:32
The members of the Redevelopment Agency board are the City Council. They just wear different hats When they make those decisions. 02:17:37
The mayor becomes the board chair and the council members become board members. 02:17:42
The RDA board overseas the use of those fund. 02:17:48
Enters into a reimbursement agreement that will state specifically. 02:17:52
Those items are reimbursement agreements are only contemplated when the developer makes an application. They get a cost estimate. 02:17:56
They include that cost estimate as part of the application and then the cities participation and that is established at that time. 02:18:05
There are policy discussions about what that participation level can be, so it's not always the same. In every reimbursement 02:18:13
agreement there can be negotiation that takes place. 02:18:18
For some items it's. 02:18:25
If the city has a strong interest, for example, in having contaminated property developed, it may participate at a higher, higher 02:18:27
level for that cleanup effort. 02:18:32
If it's a development, that's going to occur regardless, but the city wants enhanced. 02:18:37
Public amenities. 02:18:43
It can participate in a way that it feels. 02:18:45
Encourage or entice the developer to make those amenities better than what they would be otherwise. 02:18:48
So that's all to say there's a negotiation at that point in time as to how the city wishes to participate, at what level the city 02:18:53
wants to participate and then you look at the tax revenues as they would come. 02:19:00
And you can amortize that agreement where the. 02:19:06
Or the RDA routers participation? 02:19:12
That reimbursement can be spread out over years when. 02:19:16
Have actual tax revenues come in so the RDA doesn't make any commitment to pay money that it hasn't received. 02:19:20
From that development, you wait for the development to occur and then it comes in. 02:19:27
So can I summarize what you just said, just like what I got out of it? 02:19:30
We're not committing to paying any tax, RDA tax dollars right now. We're committing to the agreement to sooner or later pay like 02:19:35
we're not. We don't have a number right now. You're not committing to the amount. The agreement does affect the collection period. 02:19:43
So the RDA establishes collection periods and within that period. 02:19:51
Is when you can bring in the tax revenue and use the tax revenue for those. 02:19:56
Public purposes or to have the development happen. 02:20:03
And this separates the collection period into two phases. 02:20:07
Typically when that request is made, it's the developer saying it's going to take time. 02:20:12
To create the. 02:20:17
Get the returns and pay for the reimbursement. So you separate it to allow it to be available when they need it. So we're just 02:20:19
talking about when we're triggering certain sections, creating a smaller section so that section can be triggered at a certain 02:20:25
time that's correct for the public. I I think I speak on a lower level. 02:20:30
The RDA has different zones and we can trigger them and start them and they go on for is it 30 years. 02:20:37
25 and so we can trigger different sections and start them to the 25 year. 02:20:44
Tax, they are the 25 years of accepting the tax base and then using that into the RDA starts then. So we're not starting the RDA 02:20:51
in an area that doesn't have anything built that won't bring in revenue. So this is just. 02:20:58
Splitting up a section so that we consider one side of it and not the other. 02:21:04
Did I miss that part? That's correct. It splits into two phases, so you can use one, not the other, and you can sequence it in the 02:21:10
right way. 02:21:14
And then it adds that one of the eligible things that the funds can be used for is to create parking. 02:21:17
That was not in the original agreement, so it adds one more. 02:21:26
Public need. 02:21:29
That can be filled through the use of these RDA funds. And as you guys trigger these different sections, how do you notify the 02:21:31
public and do you have public hearing and is there a comment and input? And you know, people oppose the RDA funds at that point. 02:21:37
Like what is what happened? Yeah, it it can only be done in a public meeting of the Redevelopment Agency and those are noticed on 02:21:43
the public website the same way City Council meetings are noticed. 02:21:50
So if you go to the Utah Public Notice website, you can subscribe to notices. 02:21:57
For the city and then I know the city does. 02:22:01
Notice subscription service. So if you give them your e-mail, you'll get an e-mail every time there's this public city meeting. 02:22:05
For everyone in the room, getting them into my e-mail is very helpful. Just subscribing on the website and I will say the city's 02:22:13
subscription. 02:22:17
Way better than the state subscription. It's active, it's timely. 02:22:22
We just had an election that was clear. I mean the second seat was one in the first round of ranked choice voting. It it wasn't 02:23:28
even, it was very clear. So. 02:23:32
Your constituencies upset, they need you guys to actually hear them and vote the way that they're telling you to. That's what our 02:23:37
representative is. And if you have differences of opinion, a wonderful voice, then you are also a citizen with your own vote. But 02:23:43
when you have a majority of people telling you like this is what we want. 02:23:48
So I hope that you guys are mindful of that and you start voting in that. 02:24:55
You know that measure and thanks for the explanations. Great. All right, thank you. Any comments from the Council? 02:25:00
Yeah, I just have one more. Hold on one second, please. 02:25:07
All right. Go ahead. 02:25:11
Yeah, just recognizing the cultural shift, right with the election of hearing the. 02:25:14
Overwhelming not support for Utah City. 02:25:19
The R. 02:25:22
Is public money. 02:25:24
And so with the public saying do we want to support this and understanding it there? 02:25:26
Isn't as a RDA council and City Council with that $100 million that we have by a project by project basis, we can say? 02:25:31
Is this a public need to use? 02:25:41
Or is this not still on? What's going on tonight? Right? 02:25:44
So we haven't committed funds, but we can still in this whole zone go and say, you know what do we like that? 02:25:50
Is that is or we, hey, they're going to collect taxes and this total dollar amount is going to be here and it has to be spent. 02:25:56
I guess I would. 02:26:03
It's a little bit more complicated than that. 02:26:05
Well, it's $100 million. So we got to know it. We got to understand like I'm not, I'm not saying it's unknown, but I'm saying in 02:26:07
fact is it is known. 02:26:11
But the RDA funds are committed at different times and to different projects and in different ways. And so to fully understand the 02:26:15
answer to your question, I think we'd probably have to sit down. 02:26:22
And on a project by project basis of is this of public value and the merits of that. And so that's one of the things that Sarah 02:27:01
and I ran on is just having a very large even just not an RDA board with an RDA Commission of citizens, just slow it back and look 02:27:09
at it on a piece by piece basis because this is a much larger budget than our City Council budget, right, and we don't have. 02:27:18
That's a lot bigger spend, right? 02:27:26
Proportionately. 02:27:29
From my. 02:27:30
You don't need that. So that's a difficult math question and I hate that. Just wanted to make sure. That was my comment. Thanks. 02:27:32
OK. 02:27:40
Any comments or questions by the City Council? 02:27:43
OK, if not, I need a motion. 02:27:50
Mayor, I move that we approve the requested First Amendment. 02:27:58
To the Land Donation development agreement as. 02:28:02
In the test resolution that's discussed, OK, first by Tyson, second, second by Christy. 02:28:05
I'll do this by. 02:28:13
Does it need to become A roll call? 02:28:15
OK. Thanks, Amber. Hi, yay, Marty, Christy. 02:28:17
All right. We'll go ahead and move on to your 9.4 discussion and action on shade sales. Parks and Recreation Director Brian Bodry 02:28:22
will present the options. 02:28:27
Excellent. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. 02:28:37
To show you the final design that we have been able to finish for the shade sales. 02:28:42
There's been. 02:28:51
A lot of residents that have been requesting to have shade sales, there's added shade at our parks. 02:28:52
Very popular places to be and. 02:29:01
Not a ton of sun protection as of right now, so. 02:29:04
Umm, I also just want to thank Rob who's here with Blue Line for sticking around and he's been so good to work with. 02:29:08
Through this whole process and I've really appreciated that. 02:29:15
But I just wanted to show you the final design that we have and get your thoughts on it. 02:29:21
So at Grove Park, our first priority as recommended by staff. 02:29:27
Is to have these three triangular. 02:29:33
Shade sales over the blue area at Grove Park. It's basically a spider web feature. It gets very hot in the summertime. 02:29:38
The reason for doing the triangles instead of the squares. 02:29:48
It helps to reduce the cost just because there are less poles needed. 02:29:53
And we feel like there's just a lot of benefits with wind dispersion and and. 02:30:01
There's a few different reasons, but just to keep it short, that's the first priority. 02:30:07
The second priority would be at Penny Springs Park over the main play feature. 02:30:14
So these three triangles here. 02:30:21
The 4th or the 3rd priority? 02:30:24
Would be the bench areas on the north side of the splash pad area. 02:30:29
The 4th priority would be the Ben. 02:30:39
At Penny Springs Park. 02:30:43
And then the last priority, as you can see these circles throughout the park, those would be trees that we would. 02:30:45
Umm, implement to create additional. 02:30:55
That based off of the recommendations from. 02:31:00
The Arts Commission as well, specifically the center hill where there's five trees. They just felt like that was a good use of 02:31:04
that space so that we can stay within budget. 02:31:09
And be able to meet the needs of of our city residents. So I just want to verify that by you. And lastly our recommendation is the 02:31:17
staff is to have the the shade sale color be a dark blue. 02:31:24
Just for the most cooling possible, we figure a dark blue or a black is probably the best way to go, but fill that blue would 02:31:32
probably be the best look. 02:31:37
So I just want to be open to your thoughts on that. 02:31:42
OK, Council, do you have any thoughts or questions? 02:31:46
Did Arts Commission recommend the Blue? 02:31:53
Because I was my understanding it recommended Gray to match the building. Certainly. Did you want to come up and talk about what 02:31:56
the Arts Commission did? 02:32:00
In our arts committee, we actually were talking about. 02:32:09
Did you have any reasoning or anything that you wanted to add to on that? 02:32:18
Infrastructure. They were trying to match the buildings. 02:32:23
So to find a tone out map and if you were a dark. 02:32:30
Shirt or you have a black car interior. It's hotter, yeah. So we want we we talked about lighter. 02:32:33
OK. 02:32:43
Well, it looks like I just made a motion then. I just have a question you said. 02:32:46
The gentleman from Blue, what's it called? Blue Line. Blue Line. He's here. Yes. Could you just confirm? Maybe because I think 02:32:52
that's a great change. That's great. I really don't care. Graver simply. But I just would love to hear from a professional. Yeah, 02:32:58
please. And sorry if I totally misunderstood that I knew the color was the Gray to match the pavilion poles. But I did not realize 02:33:03
it was. But. 02:33:09
If you want to come up. 02:33:16
Good evening, Council. My name is Rob Donigan with Blue Line. 02:33:23
I can try and answer any questions you may. 02:33:30
Yeah, I'm just wondering. 02:33:32
Do you find the color of the shade affects the temperature of the shade below? 02:33:35
No, I don't really think it has much of an effect. I think it's more of a visual thing where, you know, even if it's dark, I mean, 02:33:40
we're not creating an enclosed space. It's just a canopy that's going to create a shape. 02:33:46
So whether it's blue or white or black, I don't think it's going to affect the heat. 02:33:52
Factor underneath the shades themselves other than creating shade. 02:33:57
And are we also talking about the colors of the poll? I heard that mentioned. So are we. Yeah, so, So Bronson, not to pull him 02:34:01
into this discussion, but he actually sent me. 02:34:06
Bronze is on the Arts Commission, yes, yes, I know sent me pictures and colors that are used at the at the architectural features 02:34:13
in the park and that is the Gray. So our proposal is for the Pol. 02:34:19
Would be that those would match the poles on the pavilions at the at the park. Again shape color is can be whatever. 02:34:25
You know, whatever you want it to be so. 02:34:33
I guess is there a price difference on any of it? 02:34:37
I guess one other thought, just to clarify, I guess the miscommunication there there was talking to our Commission meeting to have 02:34:43
one park was kind of known as like a blue park. The other one was known as a green. 02:34:48
And so having the great poles and then the blue shaped cells, but I am good with whatever. So if we want to go with Gray, my 02:34:54
preference would be to go with whatever Arch Commission recommended. So if you could just confirm with them what they wanted. OK, 02:34:59
I feel like I can make a motion that just then you can go ahead and confirm with our Commission. OK. So we'll just we can do that 02:35:04
in the next meeting with Arch. 02:35:09
It sounds like they already want Gray. 02:35:16
And then did you have any conflicts with that, with the things that you just heard? OK, then it sounds like we have the ability to 02:35:20
make a motion. 02:35:24
OK. OK. So I move to approve. 02:35:27
The shape. 02:35:33
Equipment. 02:35:36
At Penny Springs and Grove Park. 02:35:38
And please defer colors to our expression. 02:35:42
Which was the assumed very color. Can I second that? OK, first by Chrissy, second by Marty. Did you want further discussion just 02:35:47
in the background for your motion or do you care if I added the assumed Gray color? 02:35:53
Yes, I just I I would prefer that they confirm with Art. So the motion is to confirm with Arch the color, that's my motion. Marty, 02:36:03
do you still second that? OK is there any discussion? No, all in favor. 02:36:09
All right. We will, Yes. Thank you so much. We will go ahead and move into a public hearing. Just kidding. We are going to take a. 02:36:17
5-10 minute break right now. 02:36:27
So. 02:36:30
FY24 Budget Amendment Resolution 2023 Dash 56. 02:36:39
And our Finance Director, David Mortensen will present. 02:36:43
I am going to go ahead and have the Council put us into a public hearing. 02:36:47
Thank you. First, I ties second. Second by Amber. All in favor. Aye. All right. 02:36:53
70,000 of that be in the general fund available for economic development purposes. 02:37:31
And then another 20,000 of that available for potential future compensation adjustments for the council. 02:37:35
And then the other adjustments here that we're proposing is just to align the budget with things that have already happened or are 02:37:43
currently. 02:37:48
In our the way things are and so one of those is some personnel compensation adjustments, so just aligning the budget with that 02:37:54
and then some expenses that we didn't anticipate at the beginning of the year when we created the budget in our HR department for 02:38:00
personnel recruitment costs. 02:38:06
And that's pretty much all of the requests. I have a question, were we able to discover how much it would cost for an additional? 02:38:14
Employees, full time employees and planning. 02:38:23
I was not asked to put that together, so I don't have that information. 02:38:27
OK. 02:38:32
Anybody have any ideas on what that would cost that we could move into that budget? 02:38:34
So it depends on what will level. If it's a, if it's a senior planner to do like all the side plan reviews and help with master 02:38:46
planning, you're looking at 75 to 85. If it's a like a an entry level planner then that that could be, you know, quite, quite a 02:38:52
bit lower. I'm like 55. 02:38:58
OK. All right. Are there any questions from the public? 02:39:04
OK, no questions from the public. Can I get a motion to go out of public hearing second? 02:39:13
OK. All in favor. All right, all right, Council. I would love it if we could add additional budget for a senior planner. 02:39:18
Of some sort or somebody that could help with planning. We have so much going on. 02:39:28
Just recently we talked about all the master plans and now the execution is going to be starting and so. 02:39:34
I think that would be really important even I don't know if we have the ability to do that in this budget where you need to kind 02:39:40
of process it and see where you would need to pull that from or if we can just approve it. 02:39:45
At this time or if we need to wait. 02:39:52
Tricky. We would have to do further analysis with incoming sales tax numbers. The last few months have been a little bit up and 02:39:55
down. So it's kind of hard to say right now that we for sure will have additional sales tax revenues, but that is a possibility. 02:40:01
It's also possible that our property tax revenues will come in higher than what we budgeted, but we just won't know that until the 02:40:07
assessment was done and we receive our distribution. 02:40:12
Sometime in January, February. So for me to say right now whether those funds are available would be difficult, but there's a 02:40:19
chance that they could be early in the next year. 02:40:24
Next year. 02:40:31
Well, what would you recommend we do? Do you recommend we do a different budget amendment in January? 02:40:34
Yes, budget amendments can be done anytime during the fiscal year. It's common for cities to hold multiple budget amendment public 02:40:41
hearings, so I recommend waiting and seeing how our revenues are looking and then making an adjustment if if able to at that time, 02:40:45
OK? 02:40:50
Any questions by the Council or thoughts on that? 02:40:55
OK. 02:40:59
With that being said, I just need. 02:41:02
Motion to Approve. 02:41:05
I move to approve the Vineyard City Fiscal Year 2023 Dash 2024 budget. Amendment #2 is presented by staff. Second pressed by 02:41:07
Christie, second by Amber Tice. Amber aye. Yay, Marty. Christy aye. All right. 02:41:15
We'll go into our public hearing for the consolidated fee schedule amendment resolution 20/23/53. 02:41:27
Just know that there are some formatting and kind of clarifying changes, but I'll just talk about some of the actual fee changes, 02:42:05
first of which is in our. 02:42:10
This section is titled. 02:42:18
Administrative fees. So this is specific to parking permits that we offer. 02:42:21
Initially when we set this fee a number of months ago, we had set two fees, essentially. One, if you're purchasing a parking 02:42:28
permit anytime during January through June, you would pay $60.00 for that annual permit. 02:42:35
We're also recommending adding a replacement parking permit fee. If somebody was to lose their permit, they would need to pay a 02:43:18
fee to replace that. 02:43:22
David, how often are people coming in to do replacement permits? 02:43:27
Morgan or cash would probably have good information on that. 02:43:32
I don't have the exact numbers, but we get, we get a few a year, so I'll probably say 5. 02:43:37
But usually it's someone loses that. 02:43:45
OK. Any other questions on parking comments before I move on to the next area? 02:43:50
No. 02:43:55
Oh yes, we do have a question. Come on up. 02:43:58
So. 02:44:04
Chris Price. 02:44:06
So the parking, the parking fees. 02:44:09
Would it be possible? Like would it make it cheaper or possible if we just do like a renewal instead of giving it like a whole new 02:44:14
pass every year? 02:44:19
We just use the same. 02:44:24
ID number and renew it. 02:44:26
It would save the city money not having to print more passes. 02:44:28
But we can in the future. I mean, that's something to explore to see if there's, you know, maybe they just sent us a sticker that, 02:45:03
yeah, like something you could just place over it that could be cheaper. Yeah, we can explore. 02:45:08
I know the tow companies have recently moved to a digital where they have used license plates that may not work for us until they 02:45:14
want to move it from vehicle to vehicle, but that may be something to look at in the future as well. 02:45:19
Passing the mic. 02:45:29
OK. Moving on to code enforcement fees. We just have one recommended change here. We're just adding that if there is a code 02:45:31
violation that the city ends up paying to correct that we would charge a fee of the cost of whatever work the city has to contract 02:45:38
to do plus a 10% administrative fee on top of that. 02:45:44
Any questions on that? 02:45:53
No questions from the. 02:45:55
OK. OK, so now we're getting into our land use fees. 02:45:58
So this is where we're going to. 02:46:03
Quite a few things shifting around and changing. The first, this is not a new fee, it's something that's already in here, but 02:46:05
we're just moving it so it's in a better spot. And this is requesting a special Planning Commission meeting for an approval of any 02:46:12
type of thing that requires Planning Commission, and it's a $33190.00 meeting fee. 02:46:19
Yeah. And just add it still the Planning Commission has to agree to hold a special meeting too. So, so someone can just like, so 02:46:27
if an applicant wants to, you know, have an additional review, they still have to get basically a quorum of the planning 02:46:34
commissioners. So it doesn't guarantee a meeting, but there is a fee to kind of cover the cost of Brian. 02:46:40
OK. The next one we had in here a street and traffic control signs fee, but then a little bit further down there's a street sign 02:46:49
fee. And so it was a little bit redundant. We removed the top one and the street sign fee just clarified. 02:46:56
Instead of $300.00 per sign, because the cost of these signs could fluctuate, we're just having it be the cost of the sign plus 02:47:04
the 10% administrative fee. 02:47:08
Moving into. 02:47:16
I just wanted to point out these are highlighted a little bit funny. The reason being that the initial version of this that was 02:47:21
sent probably a week ago to the council had some things removed. But then with further discussion and clarification it was 02:47:28
determined that these should not be removed. So these I'm just pointing them out that in the version that you originally received 02:47:36
may have been redlined, but the recommendation is that they remain in the fee schedule as. 02:47:43
As shown. 02:47:51
And so the next one that's changing from these listing fee schedule is a site plans technical review. This is a new fee, $1500 per 02:47:53
application. 02:47:57
For the first fifty plan sheets and then that includes up to three revisions. 02:48:04
As well as additional site plan technical reviews, $65 per additional plan sheet or each sheet after third revision. 02:48:09
And if there's any questions about these ones our public works director city engineer the same gender is here and can answer those 02:48:16
questions. 02:48:19
Any questions? 02:48:24
OK. There's also just clarifying language here with our engineering inspection fees that are subdivision related, that's 3% of the 02:48:26
certified bid tabulation that has to be approved by the engineering office. 02:48:32
The next line we're just removing the language that says rounded up to the nearest hour, so it's just $150.00 per hour for 02:48:40
engineering inspection fees, non subdivision related. 02:48:45
And then after hours of engineering inspections supposed to be Monday through Friday between 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM or Saturdays and 02:48:50
Sundays is $300.00 per hour and a two hour minimum. 02:48:56
I already talked about the street. Oh, sorry, this was different. Street light install fee. We're just adding clarifying language 02:49:03
that it's for a new street light, not for a replacement or repairing damage. It's for installation of that new street light. 02:49:10
I already talked about the street sign. 02:49:18
Demolition, we had up to $500 plan review fee we're just taking up to. So it's going to do a flat $500 plan. 02:49:22
Adding this new fee driveway approach in public right of way inspection fee after the encroachment permit. So $250 for up to two 02:49:32
inspections and then $150.00 per any RE inspection. 02:49:38
This next line is just an increase to any use of our vacuum truck. 02:49:46
It was at $190.00 per hour. Upping that to $250 per hour to help cover the cost of our personnel to run that back truck. 02:49:53
And then just clarifying this for use of public right of way, the fine for that without an approved permit. The fee is the same 02:50:04
but just saying that the inspector does not have to be on site after the initial hour. 02:50:11
Infrastructure construction. Just clarifying that this is a bond fee and that it is 100 a 110% of the bid tabulation for a 02:50:24
performance bond or 10% of the tabulation for a warranty bond. 02:50:31
Final grading for a residential lot bond $1000 up to one acre or $500.00 for each additional half acre beyond the one acre. 02:50:39
Full or partial Rd. closure. This is will clear finance and application fee. 02:50:50
$50 per Rd. segment plan review fee. 02:50:55
City barricades for Rd. closure. This is something that needs to be approved by the Public Works Director. We're proposing a 02:51:01
$150.00 application fee and then $75 per barricade per. 02:51:07
And $100 of that would be refundable after the use of the barricades is finished. 02:51:13
I have a question about that one. 02:51:21
Umm, what does that pertain to as far as? 02:51:23
Barricades. 02:51:27
Who does it pertain? 02:51:28
So for example, if there was a row closure that was like a special event, a private special event that would be held and it was 02:51:35
approved by the City Council and so forth and the in their case were requested and other works, we have to provide this therapy 02:51:41
that would be an event. Another instance that's that's happening in real life for for public works is that there is an emergency 02:51:48
closure of a road because of a private contractor my last city. 02:51:54
Private contractor work on a building, part of the building collapsed and we would have to, and Public Works responded right away 02:52:01
to put out the Bear case, but we want to ensure that we were getting compensated. 02:52:06
If we. 02:52:11
Have a group that comes in and they are not requesting their saves that they want to close the road and they have their own. 02:52:13
Barricades. Does this fee still apply to them, or does it not apply to them? So if it's. 02:52:21
If they're using a private company, that this fee would not apply to them. If they were doing Rd. closures, we would. For example, 02:52:28
if it's a test, several Rd. closures require detours and so forth. 02:52:33
Is large enough for a special events. We would require them require them to use a certified company and of course we would not OK 02:52:39
like a special events permit from the county. Exactly OK that makes sense. 02:52:46
So to clarify, if it's a like, let's say someone in the neighborhood wants to do a little party and they want to close their road 02:52:52
and they're going through the proper procedures. 02:52:57
They would have to pay $150.00. 02:53:02
You know, I think it's for it would have to be like up to 1000 people to meet that we get to meet that code. Yeah, I won't be able 02:53:05
to answer that disagree. But for example there, if it's a small event and they're closing on the road and they were not using city 02:53:10
barricades, then it would not be. There would not be a charge at all on that. That would fall underneath the special events and we 02:53:16
wouldn't be involved. 02:53:21
That makes sense. Thank you. 02:53:27
All right. Continue. 02:53:30
So here we're just removing. This was another redundant item that's covered by other plan review fees above. So those are just 02:53:34
being removed. And then I already mentioned the special Planning Commission meeting, It didn't make sense to be right here, so we 02:53:39
moved it further up. 02:53:43
This next new fee is related to repair to damage public infrastructure, so this is for all streets or utilities. 02:53:48
It would be if the city is doing the repair work or contracting with a third party to do the repair work. We would charge a fee to 02:53:56
the person that caused the damage of the cost of those repairs, plus the 10% administrative fee. 02:54:02
And then we've added some fees for tree replacement due to damage. The fee would depend on the size of the tree. So you can see 02:54:10
there the various different diameters of tree and what the fee would be. 02:54:16
If it's a tree larger than 3 inches in diameter, then the cost would be assessed by our city harbor. 02:54:23
So before I move on to building permit fees, are there any questions on any of those landings? 02:54:32
OK. 02:54:42
I have a question. Sorry, I should have verbalized it. Thank you. I just had a question because it's an issue where I live. 02:54:46
So if I live on a dark Rd. 02:54:54
And I want. 02:54:57
Street light on my. 02:55:00
I paid $10,000 to get. 02:55:02
Straight light to put on my dark. 02:55:06
This evening the Republic Works Director. So for example, if it's and this has happened, this is where I've been for the worst 02:55:11
director previously, where a community would like more lighting above and beyond what the requirements are and then the community 02:55:18
would get together, do the request, and it would come down to a cost that the committee would bear and it would be $10,000 again. 02:55:25
Going through the public process, you know the City Council does have the opportunity to. 02:55:34
To to consider the reduction waivers et cetera. I mean it goes through a process of ensuring that though what is currently there 02:55:41
meets the standards for public safety which and then was being requested would go above and beyond that. 02:55:48
So if if I live on a dark road and I want a street light in front of my house, then I come to the city and ask them to. 02:55:57
Waive the fee. I like the fee. And then it has to be there has to be some sort of a permit or something. My guess is that it's 02:56:09
more than that. If you're coming and you live on a dark Rd. you might have the ability to get additional lighting that meets the 02:56:15
standard of the city. If you needed additional lighting, it looks like we would need a waiver. But my question is, would you make 02:56:22
a good point? Do we need to include the ability for the council to put a waiver in this? Sometimes we have to include a waiver in 02:56:28
this document. 02:56:34
Or is that just a opportunity that the council always holds? No, the council can always reduce these. So the the reason you hold a 02:56:40
hearing on this is it sets the base. Yeah. OK This year, Yeah. 02:56:47
And also just to clarify, that fee is currently in our fee schedule. The only change recommended here is just clarifying language 02:56:55
that it's for a new Street Light install. 02:56:59
So moving down into our building permit fees, our building department is recommending the following increases to their fees. So 02:57:08
for total valuations between $1.00 and $1300 instead of a $48 building permit fee would be $75 building permit fee. 02:57:15
And then going down to the different valuations between 1301 and 2000, the 1st 1300 would be $75.00 but then after that it's 02:57:25
unchanged. 02:57:28
From 2000 to $40,000 valuation, the 1st 20, the 1st 2000 would be $96.00 fee and the remaining fees would remain unchanged. 02:57:33
For evaluation from 40,000 to 100,000, the 1st 40,000 would be $514.00 fee and then the remaining fees unchanged. 02:57:44
For valuation from 101,000 to 500,000, the 1st 100,000 would be a $1054 fee and the remaining sections unchanged. 02:57:52
For evaluations of 500,000 and one to $1 million, the 1st 500,000 would be $3854. 02:58:05
And no changes to the other tiers. 02:58:13
Going down $1,000,001 to $5,000,000, the first one million would be $6354. 02:58:17
And then for $5,000,001.00 and over, the 1st 5 million would be a 20,000 dollar $354. 02:58:26
And then changing for any additional $1000 evaluation, it would be a $2.00 fee instead of a $1.00 fee. 02:58:34
OK. Any questions? 02:58:43
And then I think there's just these are just clarifying over on the left side of this for our impact impact fees. 02:58:49
It already states over on the left that it's per ERU, but this is just further clarifying that each of these impact fees is pretty 02:58:56
argue for sewer facilities. 02:59:00
Or for culinary and irrigation water systems. 02:59:05
And that for roadway facilities, the fee is per trip. 02:59:09
And then just hear the same clarification for storm and groundwater, the fee is pretty are you? 02:59:14
We also collect various pass through fees including TSSD impact fees or water reclamation impact fees and orum water rights impact 02:59:21
fees. 02:59:26
Today we have only been collecting the amount that these various entities charge. 02:59:32
That this is proposing that we would add to that a 10%. 02:59:37
Administrative fee for our time and effort in collecting and remitting the fee to these entities. 02:59:42
And then the last change, yeah. 02:59:55
Last changes in our water fees, so removing the water lateral inspection fee and adding an after hours fee supposed to be between 02:59:58
hours of 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM. 03:00:04
Of the reconnect V + 150 dollars. 03:00:10
OK. Any questions on that? 03:00:13
All right, Council, I need a motion to go out of the public hearing. 03:00:17
So moved second, Matthew, Amber, second by Marty. All in favor? Aye. All right, Councillor. Any questions or discussion? 03:00:22
If not, I need. 03:00:32
There I move. We approve the Vineyard City Physical Year 2023 Dash 2024 Budget Amendment #2AS presented. 03:00:34
OK. A first by Tice. Second, second by Amber. This is done by roll call. Tice. Amber. Aye. Aye, Marty. Yay. Crispy. Aye. All 03:00:44
right, we will go ahead and move into our 9.7 public hearing. Forged development agreement, Resolution 202354. I'm going to go 03:00:52
ahead and have the council open a public hearing. Can I just clarify that last motion then vote was for the consolidated fee 03:01:00
schedule and not for the old amendments. Oh, let's redo it. That's OK. Go ahead. Do you want to redo it? 03:01:08
I understand by resolution. 03:01:17
Amended consolidated fee schedule as presumed. OK, so motion to adopt the consolidated fee schedule as presented by. 03:01:20
Second Second by Amber. This is done by roll call amber. 03:01:29
Hi, Marty. Yay Christine. 03:01:34
Now we will move on to thank you for catching that. I appreciate that. All right, we'll move on to 9.7. This is a public hearing 03:01:37
for the 4th Development agreement, resolution 202354. We'll go ahead and open the public hearing now. 03:01:45
First by Tice. Second single by Christy. All in favor? Aye? All right. 03:01:53
Who will be? Yeah, thank you, Mayor. 03:01:59
And council, good evening. So this is a the public hearing for the Forge development agreement. The Planning Commission and their 03:02:04
last meeting did recommend approval of it. They held a public hearing that was one in which you were in attendance but it wasn't 03:02:11
officially a City Council called public hearing. So this would be the that official public hearing. Tonight. There are a few items 03:02:18
that I can run through in the development agreement that have changed kind of from the meeting from. 03:02:25
The Planning Commission's recommendation. 03:02:33
And these are proposals from the the applicant and I'll read through some of these. So that first one is? 03:02:36
The regional entertainment anchor. So the the, the Planning Commission really wanted a lot of definition kind of put around what 03:02:46
is a regional entertainment anchor. 03:02:51
And and so we we wordsmith it during the meeting and so these are some of the proposed amendments from the applicant. So I'll just 03:02:57
kind of run run through this paragraph. So just bear with me. This is 1240, so regionally and then there is an area taken out 03:03:05
significant entertainment anchor shall mean a large scale. So that was changed to regional significant entertainment anchor means 03:03:13
and entertainment or cultural facility as part of the approximate 4.8 acre. 03:03:20
Entertainment landing, Sarah. So that's the area on the northwest portion. 03:03:28
Of the project and I can, I apologize. 03:03:34
The other area was taken out. 03:03:45
And now it starts to interfere though. OK, thank you. 03:03:48
OK. So the the other areas taken out is the the part to to be unique to the county? 03:03:52
And and. 03:04:00
And so that was so kind of what we talked about was having basically like the county was up to Lehigh is about 10 miles. And so 03:04:02
the thought was having some sort of a radius where the use was unique. But it would still have, you know attraction during all 03:04:10
season and draws visitors and tourists from a broader geographical area beyond its immediate locality and has taken out 03:04:17
substantial economic or social impact on the region in which in which it is situated. 03:04:24
And then to determine whether a proposed site plan and then this portion of stakeout is regionally significant, the Planning 03:04:32
Commission and then so it reads include the regionally significant entertainment anchor. The Planning Commission may consider the 03:04:37
following. So essentially says says the same thing. 03:04:43
And then adding in the criteria. 03:04:50
Size, capacity, a substantial physical footprint relative to the entertainment land use area. So being kind of specific to the 4.8 03:04:54
acre area and so I that that actually is a pretty good amendment because it's it's relative to to the site. 03:05:01
And then the third bullet point, regional draw and then just. 03:05:09
Yeah, I don't actually know that. Maybe that there was a spelling error right there. So 4th one down and taken out significantly. 03:05:14
And. 03:05:22
Adding the descriptions and depiction in Exhibit F attached here to qualify as an approved regionally significant entertainment 03:05:26
anchor and that's the exhibit that was reviewed with the Planning Commission. We felt that that was important that we have that in 03:05:32
place because then it gives a comparison for the Planning Commission to to to look at. 03:05:38
The. 03:05:46
Change would be in regards to the parking management plan. 03:05:48
So this was an area that we met. This area also talks about the the regional significance in the review of the Planning 03:05:56
Commission. 03:05:59
But the next kind of can you go back up to the regionally significant portion that second piece? 03:06:06
So that again Planning Commission approval, the regionally significant entertainment anchor through a site plan approval. So 03:06:15
basically it it provides kind of that that that that measurement for the Planning Commission at the site plan. 03:06:21
And then eight. So this. 03:06:38
More like some some some words. I think I I think we at least Jamie and I, we've done a review of this. We feel pretty comfortable 03:06:41
with it. The the thing that the Planning Commission wants and I think there's there's a lot of wisdom into this is that we have 03:06:48
parking for communities to be managed by by essentially 1 entity. We have you know some communities that you have several 03:06:55
different owners and and they'll have different landlords over each one and parking can be really, really tough to to manage. 03:07:02
And So what this does is it puts the requirement on the property association, and so says developers, to incorporate parking 03:07:09
requirements, parking management plan into the covenants, conditions and restrictions such that the future property owners 03:07:15
association that manages the development shall be responsible for modern, reinforcing compliance. 03:07:21
With the parking management plan, through the development and shall have remedies to cure deficiencies permitted by the parking 03:07:28
management plan and by law, including without limitation, self performing. 03:07:33
And self cure of deficiencies and. 03:07:39
Do like that because it kind of puts them at the at the front they're the ones managing managing the community they're they're 03:07:43
going to know at a higher level than the city is and kind of how to how to take care of that. They also are the ones that control 03:07:49
those leases. So they they should have a pretty good understanding of of people's vehicles that are that are attached to to the 03:07:55
unit that that they're leasing and it kind of puts the the onus on to that that one larger entity. So from a code enforcement 03:08:01
standpoint we we can go to. 03:08:06
Go to that larger properties association and not to you know each individual property owner. 03:08:13
Which? 03:08:19
Pretty frustrating. So that's what we've seen and the part that you see crossed out that. 03:08:20
That's basically just like the entire project shall be managed by 1 entity above. That just kind of clarifies that. So we didn't 03:08:24
want, we didn't need to see that say that twice. 03:08:28
And then we have another section in here the Planning Commission thought that I was important that on Mill Rd. that there be a bus 03:08:33
that the developer work with UTA for a a, a bus stop on on Mill Rd. So that that that was put in there and they have been meeting 03:08:39
with with UTA and have have done a pretty good job. So what what we're seeing I mean potentially there there could be BRT, we do 03:08:46
have bus that that runs through the the city now on Mill Road and that would be a really great spot for it and so it would be 03:08:52
carving out. 03:08:58
Kind of in the shoulder, a spot for the bus to pull over without impacting the traffic there. 03:09:05
The other. 03:09:12
Would be in your site plan. 03:09:14
So the this is yeah, this is one of the exhibits that kind of lays out the general uses. 03:09:16
What you see here, this right here, just like Purple Line, is denoting enhanced pedestrian facilities. 03:09:22
And the the applicant did change that to kind of cut off this section. They still have sidewalks, but kind of the the enhanced 03:09:30
requirement is that like larger sidewalks, lots of shade, you know, things of that nature. We really wanted to tie the 03:09:39
entertainment to to the yard so that the the two felt more like 1 cohesive development. So this does. 03:09:47
Cut off kind of the eastern. 03:09:57
So, but it does add kind of a double on either side of Anvil St. which which is pretty nice. So I guess you're give and take a 03:10:00
little bit so. 03:10:04
Those are they, Those are the changes from from Planning Commission and the applicant is here. If you want to dive into like the 03:10:10
specifics of the plan, we can do that as well. 03:10:15
As this is a public hearing and people may not have had an opportunity to go to the Planning Commission, why don't we do an 03:10:21
overview of the project for the people that are here? 03:10:26
OK. Maybe we'll do this. Is there anybody that was not here that would like to, I mean, should I do it for the online people? 03:10:37
There might be people that are watching. We could keep it brief. 03:10:42
I I feel like it's important because that's our public hearing. 03:10:48
Yes, David, maybe you want to just jump to kind of the the, the, the main exhibits and just do a high level I think. 03:10:57
That that would be helpful. And then there are specific questions we from the follow up we can dig into those areas. 03:11:05
There's some changes. 03:11:35
Well, I've been practicing this one for a little while so. 03:11:42
Steve with the Dakota Pacific. 03:11:45
Character development. 03:11:50
General plan plans for this kind of development. 03:11:56
It anticipated mixed-use residential. 03:12:00
And all that we're proposing is aligned with the general plan. I think that's really important. 03:12:03
The development agreement is structured around. 03:12:11
Land use areas and designations of what kind of development can go where? Along Mill Rd. Up along Vineyard Connector. I've 03:12:14
detained that for an entertainment block. These are kinds of users with food and beverage. 03:12:19
And what had already been discussed is this entertainment anchor, there's criteria we're going to bring entertainment anchor and 03:12:25
then supporting retail. 03:12:29
And commercial uses around it as you come down Mill Rd. there's other commercial uses. These kind of uses could include hotel, 03:12:34
retail, additional food and beverage, restaurant over on the Geneva side Rd. Of things, you've got a corner that. 03:12:41
Is that better? 03:12:50
Hello. 03:12:56
All right along along the Geneva roadside of things. 03:12:58
We designated that block up there for office. There could be supporting retail, but that's the that's what it's designated for. 03:13:02
And then you can see the green spots are open space. This is publicly accessible open space, enhanced open space with additional 03:13:07
programming. 03:13:13
The goal is to be able to provide some connectivity of trails and paths for all the residents around that area and then, as was 03:13:20
discussed, this enhanced corridor. 03:13:24
Up from the theater district and entertainment district to the South, how do we draw people in? 03:13:29
Through enhanced lighting, through Acidian, through features along the road. That's the goal of that Anvil Rd. corridor. 03:13:35
I'll mention maximum 1100. 03:13:47
That's the double purple line quarter going north-south. 03:13:51
Within the core you've got mixed-use, which is where the residential would sit with a maximum of 1100 units. 03:13:56
A portion of those will be affordable. 03:14:03
And 20 is I think the development agreement actually is 21. 03:14:05
And you may have supporting retail and ground floor commercial in that area as well. Like specifically around that central Plaza, 03:14:11
we envisioned some supporting commercial food and beverage, again activating open space with commercial supporting commercial 03:14:16
uses. 03:14:21
This is a well, let me back up real quick. That blue area that you see in the top left, that is what we were calling phase one. 03:14:30
It's initial phase in the development agreement. 03:14:34
That is where we'll be starting and that's where we'll be generally completing before. 03:14:41
Any other residential built throughout the rest of the development, Steve can use your cursor. I'm seeing some, yeah, so this is 03:14:45
question question. This is kind of that blue colored area. This is pH. 03:14:52
This is what I'm going to be showing you a rendering of when I click here. 03:14:59
So now I'm across Mill Rd. I'm looking E toward the mountains and this. 03:15:03
Block in the front is that entertainment block. 03:15:08
Behind it is the mixed youth. 03:15:11
We've been thoughtful about the Vineyard Connector experience as you're driving along. What's the massing look like? I'll show you 03:15:14
a little bit more about articulation in a little bit. 03:15:18
You've got varied residential heights from three story along Cauldron Rd. which is here. 03:15:23
To some four story in the middle to five story, which in the middle of this is a parking garage, right? You can't see it because 03:15:29
it's well, it's well designed and it's architecturally interesting. 03:15:33
Going back to the entertainment block. 03:15:39
In here we will have an entertainment. 03:15:42
In this version and this rendering, we're showing this activated Plaza with food and beverage surrounding it to be a place that 03:15:44
people can come hang out, enjoy outdoor uses while while having food and beverage and other retail opportunities. 03:15:52
We've thought a lot about the streetscape experience on all the roads, all the major roads entrances. 03:16:03
Thoughtful architecture. 03:16:09
And then again the mix of residential, we talked about these being 3 Storey these. 03:16:13
Potentially are for sale units. That's part of our overall plan. 03:16:18
Could be live work units that type of activation. 03:16:21
To have a different type of residential throughout this neighborhood. 03:16:24
This is now if I'm looking at that same plan, but I'm up above it and I'm looking down. 03:16:30
And so this is the entertainment block. 03:16:35
Retail and different food and beverage options. You see a lot of outdoor patios. 03:16:38
You see places for people to gather. You see event lawns. You see fire pits. You see sports and recreation. 03:16:43
All this entertainment block anchoring it as a place, that's. 03:16:50
People want to come to The idea is that the retail association will program events. 03:16:54
It'll be activated in the winter for events. It'll be activated in the summer for events. 03:16:58
And so if you are looking for a date night and you know this retail association is hosting some kind of. 03:17:02
You know, yard gain, competition or music or a movie, you can come and enjoy hanging out. 03:17:10
Going to the mixed-use area, this is the residential. 03:17:17
Again, these are parking garages surrounded by apartment units. This would be 5 story. This would be 4 story. Highly amenitized. 03:17:21
Residential living experience. 03:17:29
Around the residential you've got this activated Central Park food and beverage on either side. 03:17:33
A place for children to get out and play climb on some thematic elements. 03:17:41
Enjoy some lawn and some some interesting seating along the way so. 03:17:47
I think. 03:17:53
That covers the site. 03:17:55
Next rendering will be as if I'm looking here, I'm standing here and I'm looking toward what this entertainment. 03:17:59
Plaza may include. 03:18:06
You see shade structures, you see some supporting commercial. Again, this would be food and beverage based. 03:18:09
Seating to be able to support some of that food and beverage. 03:18:14
Fire pits, you know, bicycle parking, electric chargers. 03:18:18
And then in the back you see some sports courts. That's the intent of. 03:18:23
Of a baseline what an entertainment anchor could look like. 03:18:28
This last rendering is I'm standing on the other side of Cauldron and I'm looking. 03:18:35
Toward that central Plaza that had the residential surrounding. 03:18:39
And here again, you see multiple different heights of buildings, you see commercial activation and you see a different kinds of 03:18:43
activities and places to be in shade within the central Plaza. 03:18:49
So that's the big picture design vision, Morgan. I don't know if you would like me to go more into any other particular items or 03:18:58
terms that are already outlined in the development agreement which is publicly noticed. 03:19:04
Are there any questions from the public or comments? If there are, can you start getting in line and make your state your name, 03:19:12
where you're from and what? 03:19:16
There. Yep. 03:19:21
Yeah, Jeff Porter, I just had a question about that. How many residents were in those apartments? 03:19:24
Roughly and was that a multi level parking structure? 03:19:30
OK, that was. 03:19:36
Thank you. I'm sorry, did you state your name? 03:19:38
Well, what was his name? Thank you. Yeah, On the height it goes around five stories. And those steps to, I believe four stories in 03:19:41
the center of the of the building. 03:19:46
Barbara Porter and I'm a vineyard resident, I'm his wife that we just learned sitting together. 03:20:01
Doesn't mean anything, it was just what was available. 03:20:07
Anyways, so my question is for parking. 03:20:11
How many parking spaces? 03:20:14
Are being assigned or will be available? Great question. Do you guys want to speak to your parking? 03:20:17
Yes, and I may have a follow up. 03:20:27
So our quantity of parking is based on occupancy and so we have two different parking structures. 03:20:34
Those units that are family occupied. 03:20:39
It is one stall per bedroom. 03:20:43
Up to up. 03:20:47
If you have more than family occupancy, right? If we have what's called bundle singles, some people think of that as students 03:20:50
coming. 03:20:53
And you know, you end up putting six students in a three bed. 03:20:57
We will monitor and regulate occupancy and if that's if that kind of use is being. 03:21:01
Required. Then we need to have one stall per bed. 03:21:08
And so we think that's the core of what? 03:21:12
Has been a lot of vineyards, parking challenges is occupancy hasn't been regulated. 03:21:14
There's also some requirements for visitor parking. There's also shared parking. 03:21:19
Between the commercial and residential, which again is going to enhance the overall capacity and ability for everybody to build a 03:21:24
park versus some other developments. 03:21:28
First up. 03:21:34
When? 03:21:35
When people say one car ish per bed. 03:21:39
This isn't a UVU area that they're saying. 03:21:45
Brought up. I believe Christie had a life stream on that. 03:21:49
So I'm assuming there would be that would be close to the UVU area. 03:21:55
So there's going to be students, there's going to be newly married couples like my daughter and her husband. 03:21:59
Rented a studio apartment. 03:22:07
And a lot of the Utah city is saying A. 03:22:11
Par for studio apartment. They purposely did a studio apartment so they could save money so they could move out into a townhome 03:22:15
they bought. 03:22:19
And so, because this is a studio apartment, people can't assume that means one person. 03:22:24
Because when they're going to school full time, working in full time, they figure they're not going to be home. 03:22:30
So they didn't need a big space and it was a way for them to save money. 03:22:36
So these assumptions of a studio apartment is one person is incorrect and that needs to be planned for, especially in a student 03:22:40
area. Can I understand you a little bit better? So are you satisfied with the one stall per bed or are you asking for something 03:22:46
additional? No. My husband and I sleep in one bed. 03:22:53
We have more than one car. 03:23:00
Interesting. 03:23:03
That's interesting. I think that's normal. 03:23:05
Interesting comment. I mean, OK. All right. Thank you for your comment. 03:23:09
Next, so I am Janae Riley. I am really excited that we're getting more places in Vineyard that are going to be like hang out 03:23:14
places and things to go do. That's awesome. 03:23:22
The thing that I'm worried about is, is that if I am going to go use that. 03:23:31
As a person who doesn't live in the complex #1, where do I park? 03:23:38
Do I have to go into the parking area where everyone lives and then? 03:23:43
Walk through the parking area to get to those shopping and. 03:23:48
Those fire pits and all the entertainment area that to me would set down my I wouldn't want to walk through where people live. For 03:23:53
one thing it may not be safe, you know, And the other thing is, is that is the parking going to be built? 03:24:01
With the complex. 03:24:09
And is the RDA funds going to be used for any part of this? 03:24:14
Development. OK. Thank you. 03:24:21
I will get back to that. That's a good question. I mean good three points. 03:24:25
OK. Bryce Grady, I'm the Chairman of the Planning Commission. Just something, I mean, you guys are in the meeting, but. 03:24:31
The way one of the big things that we talked about in the meeting was that the anchor needed to be regionally significant. 03:24:38
And we came up with some great language for it. And I noticed in this that there was some language added to the end that said that 03:24:45
Exhibit F was regionally significant. But we were very clear in the meeting that Exhibit F was not regionally significant, Didn't 03:24:52
feel like it was as it was presented and how it was just presented to you again. 03:24:58
That that's basically an enhanced park and I, the Planning Commission did not feel like that that was an anchor for this 03:25:07
development. Just wanted to clarify that. Can you clarify the wording you were looking for? Last meeting we discussed three 03:25:11
things. 03:25:16
That we felt like needed to go into that wording. What do you think was reduced that took away? 03:25:21
Last line that says Exhibit F is regionally significant. 03:25:27
What? What? 03:25:32
Has this been a one point 2.40? 03:25:35
Speed page four. I can pull it up. 03:25:39
Are you pulling that up right now, Morgan? OK. 03:25:48
Yes, in a second. 03:25:51
OK. We'll come back to that one. Was there anything else? 03:25:59
OK. 03:26:03
Hi Daria Evans, junior resident. Last week I asked the question about. 03:26:07
Section 4.4. 03:26:14
The public infrastructure. 03:26:16
It says the developer may elect to petition the city to create a public infrastructure district. 03:26:19
And I'm just curious. 03:26:27
Does it appeared have to be developed before? 03:26:30
The development agreement is. 03:26:33
Ratified or. 03:26:37
And just and it was my understanding last week that this did not have to be in the development agreement that they would go 03:26:41
through RDA. 03:26:45
Would you like me to address that, Mayor? So, really good question. 03:26:53
Any any landowner or group of land owners could petition the city for the Public Infrastructure District to create a Public 03:26:57
Infrastructure District. 03:27:02
It's a right that exists in state. 03:27:07
The city can then consider that application and decide what to do with it. 03:27:10
I don't view the language in this agreement. 03:27:15
Modifying the city's right to consider and accept or reject. 03:27:18
An application Oregon, the developer's right to make an application. 03:27:24
It's just a marker or a signal that it's there. I I do find that often clauses like this can be helpful when the agreements come 03:27:28
forward for public hearing. 03:27:33
Because it signals the developers intention. 03:27:38
To seek that and. 03:27:41
Can prepare the city and prepare the public for the requests that may be made. OK, So what you're saying is the developer can go 03:27:44
ahead. 03:27:48
If this is approved, he can go ahead and ask for a kid after the fact. 03:27:52
After this, if this is approved, you can ask for a pin. 03:27:58
Well, and it seems just to clarify, it seems like what you were saying was they can always do that. This signals their intention. 03:28:03
And from what I understand from our last meeting, we don't see how removing it would. 03:28:11
Be helpful. 03:28:22
It's a neutral provision. I don't know that it affects anybody's rights. Last time he mentioned it really wasn't necessary and so 03:28:23
I'm wondering if it's still included because on my agenda, my 247 pages of agenda is that it has 4.4. Mine does not have the red 03:28:29
lines and so. 03:28:35
Morgan. 03:28:42
Is 4.4 in this new proposal? 03:28:43
Because I don't know, I don't have any red lines on my 247 pages, OK. 03:28:50
So thank you. Yeah, it it is in the most recent version of the agreement, that paragraph. Thank you. 03:28:57
You got in my love. 03:29:10
Sarah Williams, Vineyard resident Just real quick questions. There's 1100 units, but how many parking spots are there? I mean, you 03:29:14
said something about allocating them out, but. 03:29:19
There has to be a number. 03:29:24
So. 03:29:31
As we talk about parking and maybe we can return to this, but. 03:29:33
This lays out kind of still minimal requirements. 03:30:19
Sorry, does that, yeah. 03:30:22
Sorry about that ship price. 2 questions. One is this. This as I understand it is is a a request to change the zoning from 600 to 03:30:26
1100? 03:30:31
Now the the, the zone, the zoning right now. 03:30:39
Really, the kind of the main change is the zoning. 03:30:44
Is really open-ended as far as like the level of intensity doesn't put a cap on the number of residential units, but it does in a 03:30:46
way because it's 1/3 of the square footage could be allocated toward towards residential. And so if this project built out really 03:30:53
intensely then you know, potentially they could even go go higher than that. But what what this does is it allows them to come out 03:30:59
of the gate with residential units and and. 03:31:06
Whereas kind of on the flip side, they'd have to do kind of a higher level of commercial. And so the zoning zoning right now is 03:31:13
1/3 of the square footage to be dedicated residential. 03:31:19
Thank you for that. My second part of the my second question is concerning the parking. I appreciate. 03:31:26
The due diligence that they've done in the thought process that they put into it. 03:31:32
Having lived in the parking problems that we have in Vineyard, I will tell you that if you create a system in one area to fix the 03:31:37
parking. 03:31:42
You're just going to push it to another area? 03:31:48
And so if we don't figure out a way to. 03:31:50
Get ahead of that. What you're end up doing is you're end up. 03:31:57
2003 thousand people over there and they're all gonna park at the megaplex. 03:32:00
It will happen. 03:32:06
Or all the lining streets that are there, all of those businesses that are working and building stuff currently? 03:32:07
Will all be impacted by that thing that's over there. 03:32:15
So what is the plan to be in front of that if you build this? 03:32:19
Awesome. Thank you. 03:32:26
Sean. 03:32:32
Was there a percentage mix? 03:32:34
Ownership and rent. 03:32:36
Of these 1100 units, was there any sort of mixture, any sort of requirement on how many could be rentals versus owned? Yeah, yeah, 03:32:40
we Steve if you want to provide that, I believe that's where going above the. 03:32:47
Kind of what the base number is. See if you can kind of clarify that, but I believe it does provide a. 03:32:56
A number for the ownership. 03:33:03
You know, right now there's an incentive. 03:33:07
So this was a big topic of discussion. 03:33:10
Early on how do we do that? Right now we have big blocks, right? We're trying to provide structured parking in order that you 03:33:12
provide big blocks. It's hard to provide sectional ownership within those big blocks. 03:33:17
But anywhere we can find opportunities to put for sale units like I illustrated along Cauldron Rd. we wanted to find those 03:33:23
opportunities. 03:33:27
And so we put an incentive basically we can do 1075 units, but we can go up to 1100 units if there's at least 25, four cell units. 03:33:32
So that's what's in the agreement today. 03:33:40
25 For sale units out of 11. 03:33:47
I want to buy four for bundled singles. 03:33:52
A new word. 03:33:55
The other question I had was affordable housing. 03:33:57
I saw a number on there. 03:34:00
I think the number was 20 affordable housing units. 03:34:02
How do we quantify affordable housing and what's really affordable and something like that. So I'm interested in the affordable 03:34:05
housing aspect. Yeah, the affordable housing we use AMI and so that's the area median income. What's being proposed is 60% of the 03:34:11
area median income. And I I believe the kind of the, the priority would be for first responders and and teachers and so it would 03:34:17
provide kind of a. 03:34:24
A number in there if you if you want to pull that up, Steve, that might be helpful, Yeah. 03:34:30
So the federal government has what's called HUD standards. They look at the incomes of the area. 03:34:38
You then take 60% of that. 03:34:45
And you say 30%. If somebody's earning 60% of the average median income, they can put 30% toward housing. 03:34:48
And there's a whole formula and some complexity around how you figure out one bedroom versus 2 bedrooms and three bedrooms. 03:34:56
But that's all regulated, it's federal regulated. And so our deed restriction will say that we'll comply with those guidelines. 03:35:01
Does that answer your question? 03:35:10
Are you looking for? 03:35:13
Percentages of the 60% AMI? Is that your question? Come back to the microphone in case you want. 03:35:16
I think we're all aware that the affordable housing crisis is huge. 03:35:21
And where can we find places to put affordable housing? 03:35:26
And if 20 of 1100, I don't know. 03:35:31
Number on the screen. If twenty of those are affordable, that's not really solving a problem. It's a huge problem. 03:35:34
It's tough to do affordable housing and it's extremely tough when it's 60% of that AMI is. 03:35:42
30 something 1000 prob. 03:35:48
What's affordable when you make 30,000 is a unit there. So it's not anything to do with this development through this development 03:35:50
is going to be great. It's just did you have any recommendations for what you're hoping to see the size 20 units are you looking 03:35:55
for some kind of percentage just so I can understand you, No, no, I have no number there for you. I just know we need more 03:36:00
affordable housing and this doesn't solve. 03:36:05
That problem, that doesn't even put a little dent in there. And that's nothing against this development. That's just development 03:36:10
in general. What's Leftover Vineyard is never going to. 03:36:14
Address that subject any development. 03:36:19
OK. 03:36:22
My name is Kimberly Olson. I'm a vinegar resident. I live in lakefront and I actually moved here a couple years ago. 03:36:30
Pleasant Grove and. 03:36:40
I lived in a townhome that was in a dead end when I moved in, and then Walmart came in. We all know what happens. 03:36:42
And I think my concern. 03:36:51
Now that I live in lakefront is people aren't cramming into housing because it's fun or because it's comfortable. They're doing it 03:36:54
to put a roof over their head, and I have so much respect for that savvy. 03:37:01
I I'm so blessed that I purchased my first home in 2011 and I was able to do that. And so I was able to transfer my equity and I 03:37:08
was able to move here. 03:37:13
A lot of people, including my 21 year old daughter who was looking to get married, is not in that situation and so I hosted. 03:37:20
Friendsgiving for her and her friends. 03:37:29
And the conversation came up that I have an unfinished basement and these children were literally like. 03:37:32
What can we do to get you to finish your basics so that you'll rent to us? I mean, they're desperate because they're all like half 03:37:39
more engaged. They're looking for housing and they're like, how do I? 03:37:44
What 15112 hundred for a one bedroom for these students, like they can't afford that. So they're getting savvy. These couples are 03:37:49
coming together and they're getting a two-bedroom together so they can afford the rent. So I think we have code and we have these 03:37:55
minimums, but but what are we doing about the reality? People aren't crammed together in Vineyard and having parking issues 03:38:01
because they're bored. They're just trying to put a roof over their head, so. 03:38:08
That's that is one thing that I think that instead of always like we're complying with Colonel complying with code like understood 03:38:15
you complied with code in lakefront and I literally like asked 2 girls in the 30 minute Blizzard we had on Friday. They parked at 03:38:23
the front runner. You guys I was walking out of out of Walmart and like it was hitting my eyes and sitting at the snow was for 03:38:30
that 30 minutes I pulled over because they're walking to their home in this snowstorm and I'm like can I give you a ride and. 03:38:38
They desperately wanted to take my ride, but they didn't know who I was, so they didn't feel comfortable doing that. And that 03:38:46
broke my heart that they continued to walk in that to get home. 03:38:51
The other thing is when you talk affordable housing, I moved to here and I feel like my problems are chasing me. I moved to here 03:38:56
because. 03:39:00
We built affordable housing across the street from. 03:39:05
Guess where the police were all the time and when? I mean all the time. I mean I heard sirens going. 03:39:08
There were five complexes. One has affordable housing. 03:39:17
And every time the police came, it was to that one place. We don't have our own police. We have our sheriff. 03:39:22
That's just a. 03:39:30
Of that was my experience. That's what I lived in the middle of, is across the street in this affordable housing. Not only that, 03:39:32
the landlords. 03:39:37
I'm not trying to make any judgment, but the landlords are there to make money. They're going to rent at market value. Nothing's 03:39:42
going to change that. Well, they're going to rent at 30% like this affordable housing division with us. And then the fees that 03:39:48
they charge because they weren't rent were astronomical. So that's what those people did. 03:39:55
They didn't put everybody on the lease. 03:40:02
Because they weren't allowed to. And then they moved somebody into their spare bedroom and then they didn't have parking, and then 03:40:05
they took our parking. So we're opening up. 03:40:09
Affordable housing sounds great, but people are people are savvy. They're creating their own affordable housing. So I would just 03:40:14
really urge you to require as we're building more of this. 03:40:19
To adapt to what the reality is and the reality is, is we don't have enough parking. The code, Maybe the code. I don't know what 03:40:24
you guys can do about it. It's not enough. 03:40:29
OK. 03:40:35
Just so I make sure I understand you just really quick. 03:40:38
I'm sorry. 03:40:42
You want to make sure that we have sufficient parking, you want to make sure that we manage parking that we have, correct? 03:40:44
Which we do have a police force in our city that works here in our dedicated solely to the community. 03:40:51
But it seems like you want to make sure that whatever the case is that we're not christening. 03:40:57
Whatever housing we bring in adds value to our community. Yes, adds value to our community and we're and we're dealing with the 03:41:03
reality of. 03:41:07
What the changes are instead of? 03:41:11
Putting on our rose colored glasses and this is what we want it to be. This. 03:41:14
This is just reality. I lived in the middle of it. Thank you. Thank you. 03:41:18
Sorry about that, Barbara. 03:41:23
We had a different experience with affordable housing in California. 03:41:30
We. 03:41:34
And to pass by our home when they were building. 03:41:36
They've built. 03:41:40
Apartments. We were literally across the street from Cal State San Marcos. 03:41:42
And so they said there had to be someone in the apartment. 03:41:47
That was not a. 03:41:53
So luckily, the people who. 03:41:55
Managing that place for. 03:41:58
They went to all the singles words and we had the past group of people. 03:42:00
Newly. 03:42:05
One of them wouldn't be going to school. The other one could walk across the street and not have to pay $800.00 for a parking 03:42:07
pass. 03:42:10
And they had three bedrooms down to 350. 03:42:14
And they were allowed to stay there until their income. Once they graduated, they could stay there. They saved their money and 03:42:18
they actually bought homes across the street. 03:42:23
Because they love. 03:42:29
So affordable housing can. 03:42:31
And they worked it so that it could be apartments for the affordable housing that they got credit for. And then in the long run 03:42:33
they were going to sell them because they. 03:42:38
To. 03:42:44
And so that helped a lot of people that we knew because we were on the same ward. 03:42:47
Amazing people. 03:42:52
Amazing, amazing people. 03:42:53
And so it can work. It allowed them to buy a home, to have their family and not postpone having kids. 03:42:56
So I'm here to advocate affordable housing can work. But it was the entire complex was affordable housing. Thank you. 03:43:03
OK. Other questions. 03:43:11
Or comments? 03:43:14
OK, If not, I'm going to go out of a public hearing. 03:43:17
I need a motion. 03:43:20
So second, first by ties, second by Marty. All in favor? Aye? All right. 03:43:22
Let's go ahead and start deliberating and address some of these things. One of the questions that came up was studio parking, one 03:43:29
bedroom isn't sufficient and what are we doing for visitor parking and commercial provisions? Would you mind just addressing that? 03:43:37
Our parking will be 100% permitted. 03:43:50
The parking that we have supplied. 03:43:55
Isn't necessarily the parking that will be demanded. We understand that. 03:43:58
But because every stall is going to have a permit associated with it. 03:44:03
If there is somebody in the studio. 03:44:08
That needs two cars. Great. Come to the leasing office. Let's see what excess parking is in, you know, our inventory. 03:44:11
And if they have, if we are able to park that couple as with reference, then we will be able to sign that lease. We'll be able to 03:44:18
give them two parking stalls as needed and things will be able to move along just fine. There will be some people in a two-bedroom 03:44:24
that only have one car. 03:44:29
Well, great. We'll just take that inventory, that piece and be able to allocate it to again bundled singles or people in a one 03:44:34
bedroom that have two cars or if there are you know multi generational families that was brought up in, in one and they need three 03:44:39
cards and two better. Fine. We're just managing our inventory against the demand so that we don't sign leases that exceed the 03:44:44
parking capacity of the area. It's just it's just a responsible way to try to manage the property so that we don't exceed the 03:44:49
bounds. 03:44:54
Can can I add a? 03:44:59
I went to a training Morgan. I think you were there. 03:45:03
Can I add a request that we don't use Tandem Parking if you're going to have? 03:45:07
Beautiful. 03:45:12
It's the. The only exception could be if like there's like a. 03:45:14
Connected garage inside of a. 03:45:18
Of a unit. It's a garage, then installed just because that's the only efficient, efficient way to do it. But generally tandem 03:45:21
parking isn't. I just don't want it to count as that space because I know a lot of times those garages end up with. 03:45:27
The storage area. 03:45:35
Where we've seen it work is, yeah, the valet basically to make tandem for. 03:45:37
You're sitting, you're sitting around waiting for the next person to comment. Yeah, the width of those garages that you saw is 03:45:42
designed to avoid any tandem parking It. It's it's, it's it's designed to be. 03:45:46
Install drive by install stall. 03:45:52
Rabile stall so. 03:45:55
OK. 03:45:59
OK. 03:46:01
OK. Did you want to talk about visitor parking? 03:46:04
There is a provision in there for for visitor parking. So big picture, I think the question is what are we going to do to get in 03:46:09
front of parking? 03:46:13
Let me just pull up this slide again. 03:46:17
We may have done done well. Why do you say this and you address it, I think price made. 03:46:22
A really valid point that we want to be able to manage it in a way that not only are you just managing the occupancy, but that we 03:46:29
provide enough and we do a good job so that it isn't pouring into our development next door. So maybe as you talk about it, talk 03:46:34
about how you're addressing that need. 03:46:39
So our phase one is going to have extra capacity, so. 03:46:46
You know the code required. 03:46:51
Parking demand is going to be here and we're going to provide 15 to 25% above. 03:46:53
That code required demand that's going to give us the margin to be able to absorb any miscalculations. 03:46:58
At the end of phase one, we're going to do a parking study. We're going to understand we're going to be counting the cars on the 03:47:03
streets or right and understand how our parking management. 03:47:08
Is working. 03:47:13
We're going to take those lessons learned before we go build Phase 2. And so I think that's really going to be helpful. We've got 03:47:15
margin in phase one. 03:47:18
If that margin is not, you know is it is. Umm. 03:47:22
Not UT. 03:47:25
We'll learn that if it's over utilized and people are parking on the streets outside, we're going to learn that. 03:47:27
Is that something that you'll be reporting back to us as you plan for phase two? It is requirement, yeah, it's engineers got to 03:47:33
come do the parking study. We've got to sit down. We've got to deliberate. 03:47:39
The planning commissioners similar to the downtown requirement, I thought I remembered that, but. 03:47:45
All right. There is provision for visitor parking, right? We have some private streets, but but there is a provision in there for 03:47:50
added capacity for visitor parking. Again, that needs to be studied how it's being used. 03:47:56
Our vision and goal is to be able to have designated visitor stalls. Again, these are private roads. Along some of the private 03:48:02
roads there will be time limited visitor parking and then there will be a process, you know if there's overnight visitor parking 03:48:05
as well to permit that. 03:48:09
OK. Council, did you have any commentary on the for sale units numbers and the affordable housing units? Did you feel that was 03:48:14
satisfactory? Did you want to talk more about that? We pushed as hard as I could to get as many affordable housing units and that 03:48:21
is what they gave me. I'd be happy to see more about what might be helpful because. 03:48:28
There's the designated 60% am I and that that's actually really good in the affordable housing world it it it means that you're 03:48:35
and the idea was it was set aside for first responders that is that we could get more pleased and firefighters teachers living in 03:48:43
the community because you know especially the entry level position which sure holding can speak to that but you know it takes 03:48:50
takes a while to where your you know your income is going to increase but then there's also market rate and. 03:48:57
And I think it might be helpful Steve, if you kind of talk about just like some some of the market rate and and kind of you know 03:49:05
not necessarily the exact price points but just understanding kind of the overall inventory because there's the designated. 03:49:11
Am I at 60% and then there's just the overall market? 03:49:18
So on affordable housing, we have offered this up just as a concession. There's no regulatory requirement. We saw a need. We heard 03:49:23
specifically about teachers and 1st responders. How do they live in the community that they're working? We. 03:49:29
This is something that we can contribute to. 03:49:36
We don't have. 03:49:39
We don't have federal subsidy. 03:49:40
Subsidizing or any government subsidized subsidy helping us out with this, this is just developer concession to say, let's let's 03:49:43
provide that. 03:49:47
They will be delivered throughout the development. So it's not like they're going to come all at the end and they're going to be 03:49:52
integrated in with the development, meaning they're not going to be some stand alone. 03:49:57
On the, you know, edge of the development it's going to be integrated into. 03:50:02
The overall. 03:50:08
Larger. 03:50:10
As far. 03:50:12
100% will be market rate attainable workforce housing. 03:50:13
We're really close. 03:50:17
To 100% AMI or just under type rents, that's achievable for the typical average. 03:50:19
Income for Utah County. So our our rents aren't going to be, you know, luxury housing that's not attainable. 03:50:27
Somebody earning close to the average income of the county. 03:50:35
Yeah. 03:50:46
Will you clarify, you said it's roughly, I think we said 1100 units including the the rental or the affordable and the? 03:50:48
Owner. 03:50:58
Is that just in faith liner, is that the whole project? That's the whole project. So phase one is 650? 03:51:00
All right. That's better than I thought. So that's good news. 03:51:07
I just want to say. 03:51:12
This is really hard for me. 03:51:14
It's not exactly what I wanted for the area. I know you've been working with the city and. 03:51:16
Trying to come up with a comp. 03:51:23
It's so hard, the whole conversation with affordable housing because it's like. 03:51:27
We all want the affordable housing crisis to be solved somehow, but then we don't want too many high density apartments. 03:51:32
We all want it to be less dense, but then we all want our children to be able to afford to live here and so it's like this 03:51:40
balancing act and so. 03:51:44
Just like my thought. 03:51:50
On this project. 03:51:52
I'm not. I'm I'm not in love with the idea of having two big apartment buildings. 03:51:58
But I understand the cause and I just if there's any way that the second phase could be less housing, I think that I would be more 03:52:04
comfortable voting this sort of do you want to do that through? 03:52:10
Ownership or just the reduction of units? 03:52:16
Like, I know you can't say what phase two looks like. I know you haven't gotten to that. 03:52:20
But do you have a plan? Like, is it meant to be townhomes? Is it meant to be another apartment building with the parking 03:52:25
structure? 03:52:28
Have you even gotten that far? We have contemplated all of the above. I mean, it is hard to know exactly where the market's gonna 03:52:33
be and what it's what it's gonna say. 03:52:36
There have been discussions of wanting some kind of a parking structure that's a shared parking structure close to the theater, 03:52:41
right, to kind of just help with the community impact. That's something we certainly considered. We've also considered larger 03:52:46
developments of townhomes and just how that lays out. 03:52:51
That's why we left it open-ended. I don't know how to. Is there any way for us? 03:52:57
Morgan. 03:53:04
You might need to listen to this part. Is there any way that we could approve? 03:53:05
I know this is a development agreement, but is there any way we could approve the amount of housing in the first phase and then 03:53:10
the second phase? 03:53:13
Later. 03:53:17
Pulled away in your resident really fast. Did I understand you earlier when you said there is no cap? Is? 03:53:21
Could be 1100, but there's no cap on if it's more. 03:53:28
Yeah, there's no cap in the zoning code. 03:53:33
So we're going to reduce it. 03:53:38
Clarify that in the zoning code, there's no cap on the height. The development agreement puts limits on those things. What were 03:53:44
you saying? OK, it's 12 stories compared to five. It feels like no cap is very high. 03:53:51
OK. I didn't get my question. Oh, I'm sorry. OK. Yeah, I would see no reason. I mean development agreements allow you to phase in 03:54:01
projects. The development agreement, Jamie corrected if I'm wrong, but you can make a specific to, you know, one area and then you 03:54:09
can, I would assume you could require an amendment or or something like that. It would kind of depend. So would that remove the 03:54:16
cap that we're doing right now because technically you're opening it up to additional housing in the future? 03:54:23
If you're facing it, it would well, you would cap the first phase, Yeah, you tap the first. So we couldn't tap the whole project 03:54:32
so they could keep their current zoning that they have. Yeah. The second phase would would essentially follow the the one third 03:54:37
square footage rule under the zoning and if I may. 03:54:43
With the current market conditions, hopefully there's evidence in a lot of people's mind that capital markets hate uncertainty. 03:54:51
They will not raise. 03:54:58
You know, a part of this investment is going to be our own. A lot of this investment is going to be other investors that we have 03:55:00
to go and compete and say, do you want to invest in this project? 03:55:04
Banks have to say we're going to lend on this project. 03:55:09
Uncertainty starts to freeze up capital markets so. 03:55:11
That's why it's important to us. It's not. 03:55:17
You know, we want to just make sure that we have our grab. It's because we know we're going to need it to be able to raise the 03:55:20
funds necessary to deliver the project. 03:55:24
OK, we did have a question. It was about we addressed the parking for visitors. 03:55:29
There was a question about parking with a complex for RDA funds on the site. I would say that there's always a potential for 03:55:36
people to come with an application and get RDA funds and that will have to be addressed by the RDA. I think the intention is to 03:55:42
work with the group and provide the infrastructure and the needs, but it will be voted on at a future time, right? Is that 03:55:48
correct? 03:55:54
OK. I believe that answers all the questions on that one. 03:56:01
Exhibit F Did we address why it was not regionally significant to price? 03:56:06
So I mean I would kind of leave that up to Steve. We, we we did put the. So my understanding was that is this Exhibit A you want 03:56:15
to go to the to the actual like plan view. 03:56:22
Yeah, that's great. 03:56:31
And so how, how so from a staff side what what we would do, we would take the, the language and we would analyze like the the text 03:56:33
or the regional significance for the entertainment anchor. This provides this kind of a like a level of of amenities that that 03:56:42
that that we can look at. And so you're showing you know potential restaurant pads, you're showing you know pickleball courts. 03:56:51
Doesn't necessarily have to be Pitbull courts, but it's showing like a highly amenitized area. 03:57:00
That's the direction with the text. Like we would use those two to kind of help us. So the difference, if I'm understanding it 03:57:06
correctly, is that this is kind of the housing portion. 03:57:11
Is that right now this is the. This is the entertainment block. Yeah. This is that north, then the Northwest. OK And why do why do 03:57:17
we feel like this doesn't reach the. 03:57:21
Reach the code I would, I would ask maybe Bryce. 03:57:27
Clarification. 03:57:32
While Bryce comes forward, can I offer a recommended revision that I think we'll get at his concern what I heard from Bryce and? 03:57:34
Bryce, please tell me if I'm correct. Is that the text definition in the agreement that we created? 03:57:42
And have a modified with the developers input for the regionally significant entertainment anchor. 03:57:50
He's OK with that. There's then a line after that that says the description and depiction in Exhibit F qualifies as. 03:57:58
A regionally significant entertainment anchor and I think what Bryce is saying. 03:58:06
Really doesn't like that. 03:58:10
You'd rather just have the definition apply that language. That's fine. Do you guys feel comfortable with that? No, you don't. Can 03:58:12
you explain why? OK, I. 03:58:16
It's going to be tricky to negotiate later. 03:58:21
What criteria meets that? It's interesting as you read through those criteria. 03:58:25
Depending on what lens you have. 03:58:29
This meets it. If you have it, you know a lens for you know some. 03:58:32
Large museum then. 03:58:38
Well then this doesn't mean that we thought it was important to baseline what lens your. 03:58:40
Looking at that criteria through. 03:58:45
And we have put this forward, We have Negoti. 03:58:47
In good faith. 03:58:50
We felt this was regionally significant, that people are going to come to the activities and the programming that happens here. 03:58:52
The food and beverage is going to be a unique environment and it's going to pull people into the area. It's going to be an 03:58:56
amenity. 03:58:59
And so we thought it was really important to say. 03:59:03
These things do qualify so that when we come and submit what our entertainment anchor is, there has been some understanding or at 03:59:06
least some documented baseline of what does meet the criteria, right. 03:59:11
It's a starting point to negotiate from as opposed to a very broad criteria, I mean. 03:59:16
I wouldn't mind if you did something like you can discuss this with the planner and see how you can, you know maybe there's a 03:59:22
waiver like you didn't meet the 10 mile marker and so there was like a nine mile or something like that. But I I feel like even 03:59:27
the products and the companies that you've talked about meet the criteria that is coming in. We feel they do as well. We're just 03:59:33
concerned if other. 03:59:38
Right. And so in the text below this we documented some descriptions. 03:59:44
Right, that we have a restaurant and a commercial user coming together to bring an activity center and a large restaurant, right. 03:59:48
And again, we're on 4 1/2 acres and we're saying it's going to take a proportion of that. So the scale has to be appropriate for 03:59:53
that. 03:59:57
Or it's this food. You know, what we've presented up here is basically a food hall, a food court. It just happens to have an 04:00:02
outdoor activity center in the middle that again has programmed events, live music, that type of thing. We're. 04:00:08
We want an understanding that that type of description. 04:00:14
Is an entertainment anchor. 04:00:20
Jamie, do you have any recommendations for how we could address this? I mean I council, I don't mind if you put in something like 04:00:24
the planner can discuss this and can go through these types of discussions if you saw that as a value. But I feel like there's 04:00:30
some nuances in here that I don't think need to be. 04:00:35
Yeah, I mean my my legal advice to you would be. 04:00:41
If they're going to baseline it by exhibit. 04:00:45
This will be a binding agreement once you approve it and they sign it. So you would have to accept that baseline as what you might 04:00:49
get. And what I'm hearing from Bryce is that the Planning Commission's recommendation of approval was conditioned on their 04:00:55
definition. 04:01:01
Not exhibit. 04:01:07
And so their recommendation to you would. 04:01:09
To not accept Exhibit F as what you get. Well and it seems like the, I mean, I feel like I know the company you're talking about 04:01:13
because we're talking about it, but I feel like. 04:01:18
I see the definition fitting. So there has to be some kind of ability. He's saying he needs the ability to prove that they fit it 04:01:24
and they're feeling like this is a little bit stringent. So Council, how do we come together on that? Because it makes sense that 04:01:29
there's going to be differences of opinion. 04:01:34
On it. But there's a standard and the standard it seems fine. And if you're coming into some ability to have a discussion and say 04:01:40
OK for Bryce, it may. 04:01:44
Covered. 04:01:50
Pickleball courts. But there could be this incredible amenity, you know, that doesn't have that, but it is regionally significant 04:01:52
or maybe it could be our standard as 10 miles, but 9 miles is just as good as it's if it's out of our area and it's regionally 04:01:59
significant and it's going to bring huge value to the community and they all want it. So Bryce, is your objection just the image 04:02:06
and exhibit AF or or do you also object to the language below it? 04:02:13
So I haven't seen this language. It wasn't in the paperwork that I received. All the Red Line stuff I have not seen. 04:02:20
I haven't even had a chance to read that part. 04:02:27
But. 04:02:31
It was the language we're we're happy with the language that we came up with in our Planning Commission meeting and. 04:02:34
I feel like this by itself just showing this exhibit doesn't meet that criteria and if it's in there that it says that. 04:02:41
Exhibit F is regionally significant, but it doesn't meet the language that we came up with then. It's not reasonably significant, 04:02:49
like we went through that whole ordeal. 04:02:54
So that we could define it and we came up with language so that we could define it and then just having this vague picture kind 04:02:59
of. 04:03:03
Takes away our definition. I mean can we, can we do something like if if the this would be for Steve as well like could the 04:03:07
Planning Commission, if they so choose enter into the NDA where they can actually? 04:03:13
The business, I mean that's where it's kind of hard because we, you know like from an economic development standpoint like we're 04:03:20
able to kind of analyze it, right, But it's. 04:03:24
You can't can't. You can't put these. I feel like we do this. Let's just cut the exhibit and allow you to negotiate it and make 04:03:28
sure that you're meeting the intent. 04:03:32
Can we do that? Because this doesn't need to come back. It's administrative. I think if you saw the company that was coming in, 04:03:37
you would feel comfortable. We'll cut the exhibit so that it's a compromise between the two. We'll make sure that the planner can 04:03:42
negotiate according to the intent. Will it still come back to the Planning Commission? It will come back to the planner. 04:03:48
And we'd still keep we keep the language that the Planning Commission. 04:03:54
In what we accepted in the Planning Commission was that it comes back to the Planning Commission. 04:03:59
Yeah, Well, it would through the site Planet, yeah, yeah, that the development language, the development agreement language would 04:04:04
still do that. So if I were to put. 04:04:08
Words of a motion or an amendment to the agreement. What the mayor just said we would eliminate Exhibit F and then you would 04:04:14
eliminate. 04:04:18
That last sentence in. 04:04:23
One point 2.39 that it states that Exhibit F is an example of something that is reasonably significant. 04:04:27
I don't have any confidence that the tenant that we've talked about will meet the criteria. 04:04:38
And the Planning Commission? 04:04:44
Really, I do, and I feel. 04:04:48
Well, you know. 04:04:52
How it's very open-ended. It's very, it's left open to discretion and we are left without any. 04:04:55
To have any kind of baseline to say that's that's not fair. So the text that's here provides. 04:05:02
Again, I think the text to #2 basically describes. 04:05:11
The picture above. 04:05:14
That is important to us and I think it's going to be hard, hard for us just to leave it so open-ended, OK. So I think this is 04:05:17
something that council needs to decide regionally significant. I think we all want to attract something really important. What 04:05:22
we're looking at right now I think is regionally significant and meets the criteria according to what I'm reading. However, I 04:05:28
think what is really being discussed is what if that tenant falls through and we get something else. 04:05:33
That's the discussion. So if you want regionally significant according to these descriptions, then we just need a hard line. Put 04:05:40
this in with that description that goes to the planner. And if you want something that says, hey, we're open to business and it 04:05:45
needs to be X criteria that you feel is different than this and it's not necessarily region, regional or an anchor. This is what's 04:05:50
on the table for you to decide right now. 04:05:55
OK, while we do that. 04:06:01
I have a question about. 04:06:03
Signaling the developer's. 04:06:06
Well, actually, I'm going to hold that comment. 04:06:12
Does everybody feel comfortable with the wording in there that signals the developers intention? 04:06:15
With a PID that they can request it, they can currently request it, they have that ability. 04:06:20
And. 04:06:26
Whether we put that in there or not, couldn't they request that anyway? It's just this signals the developers intention and that's 04:06:27
what Jamie thought was. 04:06:31
Interesting in this. 04:06:36
You know or noted that it's just a provision that, in my opinion, is legally meaningless. It may have graphical value, but I 04:06:38
don't. I don't think it means anything. It doesn't give any enforceable right to. 04:06:44
It doesn't give any enforceable right to the developer I agree with. 04:06:51
All that's been said. 04:06:55
The signaling may be overstated as well, right? 04:06:57
It was just an expression of optionality. 04:07:01
That's that's all right. 04:07:05
All right, either way it can be denied by the body, so it doesn't matter if. If you think there are concerns about the language, 04:07:09
remove it. I don't think so. 04:07:14
Does anybody else feel that it needs to be removed? 04:07:20
As long as we're clear that it's not committing to anything. 04:07:23
I mean, I say we just remember because it means nothing but. 04:07:27
I don't know if you guys don't want to remove it. 04:07:31
You don't care. We're fine if it's removed. Our options remain the same. 04:07:35
OK, yeah, just remove it. Pointless. 04:07:41
OK. All right. There's always compromise on every discussion. All right, let's see. 04:07:44
I think we've addressed all of the comments so far given by let's see townhome overhead. 04:07:50
That came from the public so far. So that draws us back to the anchor. Let's go ahead and make this decision. And then I have a 04:07:58
question as well on open space. 04:08:02
Well, I was very comfortable with our decision of last. 04:08:10
That it needed to meet certain criter. 04:08:14
OK, because. 04:08:17
There is a large amount of. 04:08:23
Not to demean what's there, but vanilla entertainment. 04:08:26
There. 04:08:31
That's the one. 04:08:34
So I wouldn't consider it. 04:08:36
Unless there was something there to different. 04:08:39
What's already? 04:08:42
I think our previous delineation pointed that out. 04:08:45
OK. Do you feel comfortable with the wording that I suggested that? 04:08:49
The planner. 04:08:54
Negotiate with them for any nuances. 04:08:57
And it's to come back again. 04:09:01
So are. 04:09:04
You mean he has the authority to say here's the agreement or it then has to go back through the whole process and so it's not in 04:09:05
disagreement? 04:09:09
To further define this. 04:09:16
Then this still needs to be a judge. OK, so you do not want to give the authority for him to address whether or not it meets the 04:09:19
intent. 04:09:24
OK. 04:09:30
What I think they're saying that it is regional and if. 04:09:34
It doesn't mean. I mean, yeah, I guess that's a good question. 04:09:39
That that's how that's how it was recommended. OK, so it looks like everybody wants it to. I mean, I'm sorry, is the concern with 04:09:44
the image or the text? 04:09:48
The image. 04:09:55
I mean all of these, India. 04:09:58
But. 04:10:06
The Planning Commission hasn't seen that. 04:10:08
Yeah, so exited that. 04:10:11
What do you not like about the text? 04:10:17
It's unnecessary really. 04:10:19
The text that we have with the with the rest are we just think. 04:10:22
No, IA 100% agree that the regional anchor as you described it is OK. 04:10:27
If you were to add these in as variances to that and say hey, regional is important but also. 04:10:32
It could be something like an indoor surf park. 04:10:39
These things qualify. So if you come out of the 10 mile or whatever we said was regional and then all of a sudden these are your 04:10:42
variances, basically what is unacceptable inside of here that you'd like us to scratch. Personally, I could say what I would want. 04:10:48
But as far as? 04:10:54
Two, an indoor or outdoor food court, that's .5 acres like, that's That's not something that qualifies. 04:11:01
And that's not regionally significant with one. 04:11:09
I mean, it all depends. You can. Anybody can throw up a rock climbing wall in a park. Like, it's hard to say, but if it meets the 04:11:13
criteria of the first things, then we're good. It's just adding in. 04:11:18
In addition to the criteria that we already came up with. 04:11:25
Unnecessary. OK, Do you feel like there needs to be any variances? This is what it is. Otherwise we have to scrub, scratch, and 04:11:29
all of that is Exhibit F. 04:11:32
I think there should be the possible variation of that description, yes. And it wouldn't go back to the Planning Commission. It 04:11:40
can remain here and rest here in this discussion. So really I'm just asking for your opinion because you've reviewed it a few 04:11:44
times, so I'm. 04:11:49
Like I said, I'm only just seeing this. 04:11:54
Now, and I don't know what the rest of the Planning Commission would say, that's OK. We're not talking about the Planning 04:11:58
Commission. We're talking about Bryce Brady. 04:12:02
I mean, it's hard to say. I don't know what some of these things are a rock climbing. I mean, like I said, anybody could throw 04:12:08
that up. 04:12:12
Like I've seen a skydive simulation in a in a warehouse garage. Like that's helpful. Thanks. 04:12:19
All right. I mean, any of these things could be. 04:12:28
They could be regionally significant. 04:12:33
If they're done right, but just saying them like I could have half these things in my backyard, so it's like. 04:12:36
It's not. 04:12:42
I think for the point, OK, so the question to the Council is, do you see any variances that need to be allowed in here or do you 04:12:45
want anything to be done under this attempt? We'll send it back to the Planning Commission. 04:12:51
OK. Anybody else? 04:12:58
I'm not even sure what we agree with. So Julie? 04:13:02
We're going to allow the bottom line of #2 no, like this all the red. We'll get rid of this, we'll send it back to the regional 04:13:06
anchor language and we will allow it to go back to the Planning Commission. So Julie, are are we saying that we don't know how to 04:13:11
spend money on such uncertainty? 04:13:17
OK. 04:13:23
This I I totally understand this. This is important. We we have an actual company that is coming in here. Many of us have seen it. 04:13:27
So the issue is. 04:13:31
Not have any kind of a baseline. Again, you read that criteria and you can start to think museums and zoos. Things got brought up. 04:13:37
I don't know how we park some of that. I don't know how the scale fits in some of that. 04:13:46
Right. Last time it was talking about cover the entirety of the park. I don't know. We're going to be subject to a lot of 04:13:50
discretion. 04:13:53
If we don't have some kind of a baseline to say, these things are reasonable. 04:13:57
And I don't know how we go spend design money. And then you kind of keep bringing a rock to the Planning Commission. Oh, that's 04:14:02
the wrong rock. Bring something else like that is a cycle that I've seen happen, and I'm really worried that it could happen here. 04:14:07
I actually do have some comments about this too. We know who the user is. That's okay. Some of us know who the user is, right? 04:14:17
And let's let's look at this for a second. 04:14:28
Say you don't know who the user. 04:14:30
Go back up to the image. 04:14:32
Imagine that it's a user that's really incredible and they happen to have pickleball courts. No, just, but follow me. 04:14:38
Somebody to meet the intent that understands the nuances of economic development. 04:15:19
You know what I mean? 04:15:23
Yeah, the community development director. 04:15:25
I do understand where Steve is coming from. It's like the concern is that you're providing. 04:16:00
Essentially the Planning Commission with ability to make a decision that could be our arbitrary and and and doesn't have a lot of 04:16:06
baseline. So he wants to provide some of those baselines in there. So it provides some reassurance. 04:16:13
And so, yeah, from a like from a staff side like where we're happy to do it, this is the world that we work in. But I I, I think 04:16:20
the Planning Commission could do as well. But I do understand where where Steve's concerns are 'cause you know you're you're 04:16:27
making several million dollar decision and potentially you could have an arbitrary decision, decision. 04:16:34
So. 04:16:42
But do you understand where we are already? 04:16:45
The McDonald's in a pickle, Bob. Course doesn't cut it. 04:16:49
I wish that would be great for us, that we could solve this. 04:16:53
We need to come to some kind of solution that says here's our criteria, who's here's going to vet it. 04:17:04
Like it was mentioned in a food court, 1/2 acre again, the outdoor activity area is 1/2 acre. What you're seeing here is actually 04:17:11
a full acre. 04:17:14
This this can't be McDonald's in a pickleball court. It wouldn't meet the criteria. 04:17:19
So that's our fear. 04:17:27
Right. But McDonald's is an 8000 square feet and it doesn't include an outdoor activity area that's 3/4 of an acre to 1 1/2 acres 04:17:29
that has programming in it, right? Like. 04:17:33
There are commercial enterprises out there that you can envision that meet this criteria. It's not like we're going. 04:17:41
Go build a garage and put some simulators in there. And it felt like that wouldn't make any sense for our development, right? Like 04:17:46
we have an incentive to bring quality, no doubt about it. So understanding the concerns of the council, do you have anything 04:17:51
compromise wise that you would feel comfortable with? Because that's where we are on the table. We need a compromise. Something 04:17:55
needs to come forward. 04:18:00
Is this something that, I mean, they're welcome to define it more? Is it something that could come back to the Planning 04:18:05
Commission? 04:18:08
You know, I think it was important. The question for us is. 04:18:43
Is this for the council? Do you feel comfortable with this? If you do not, then. 04:18:47
And the existing criteria still exists. It still has to have economic impact, right? It still has to have all of those things. 04:18:53
So if we bring a version of anyone of these descriptions that doesn't meet that criteria, fine. 04:18:59
Yeah. Can we just say, what do you think, can we say meets the criteria of the regional, this meets the criteria of the regional 04:19:04
anchor? 04:19:07
I don't know that it meets the criteria I. 04:19:13
I don't know as I read through it, that it does. 04:19:18
Can I suggest an option that might be? I think what I meant was could we say? 04:19:21
Whatever they bring that does meet this criteria has to try to meet the intent of the regional language. 04:19:25
You know what I mean. So you're not building a whatever in a garage? 04:19:31
I think you're making a land use approval, not a suggestion. It's an agreement. So Steve, give me a moment. 04:19:37
I think what? 04:19:44
If we were around a negotiating table and you were trying to find an agreement. 04:19:47
They have information, we don't. 04:19:52
We have preferences about what the zoning should be in the city. This really is a land use decision. Once it's approved, it's it's 04:19:55
set. If they come forward for site plans, they're entitled to that. 04:20:01
So you do need to make sure the language is something you're comfortable with, but you can approve this. 04:20:08
With this exhibit F stricken. 04:20:14
And that final sentence of one point 2.39 taken out. 04:20:18
And if the developer can't make that work, they can come back to the council for a revision to the development agreement. 04:20:23
And you can rework that criteria. 04:20:32
In a way that you think would function better. 04:20:35
OK, Council, what do you want to do? 04:20:39
Are these people waiting in line? We do not have a public hearing open right now, so. 04:20:42
I'm actually fine sending it to our. 04:20:51
Yeah, I feel good about the community development since it goes back through Planning Commission. 04:20:53
Wait, if it goes to the commun. 04:21:00
That wouldn't come back through the Planning Commission. So, so the side plan how it's set up right now just to clarify the, the 04:21:04
Planning Commission would make. 04:21:09
They would make that determination at before the first site plan. 04:21:13
And so if you sent, you sent it to the community development director, I would make the determination on whether or not it's 04:21:18
regionally significant and then the site plan itself would go to the to the Planning Commission. And I think what Jamie is 04:21:25
suggesting honestly I think that's that's really good suggestion is if if you know to move forward. 04:21:31
You know the applicant might not like it but striking F and then if if it's not workable, then they can come back to the and and 04:21:38
and go through the process to to to rework it. 04:21:44
And maybe it accomplishes the same. 04:21:51
But if the applicant wished to appeal? 04:21:54
The Planning Commission, the decision could we go to City Council? So there was two bodies and just a broader audience. 04:21:59
Of people to consider that. 04:22:04
And I. 04:22:08
Development agreement accomplished the same thing, but that may be a little more straightforward. 04:22:10
Jamie, was your recommendation to strike it and just have it go through that process or did it also include Morgan making the 04:22:15
decision and going to the site plan well? 04:22:20
I wasn't thinking about The Who approves the site plan part of it. 04:22:26
I'm I'm comfortable either way with what you decide there and. 04:22:32
Oh, sorry. I meant the determination of whether it was regionally significant or not. That's what I meant. I don't have a 04:22:38
preference whether it goes to the Planning Commission or. 04:22:42
Morgan for that approval, I think the site, to Morgan's point, the site plan has to come to the Planning Commission regardless. 04:22:48
I think Steve suggestion is a good one though. So if it gets, if it goes to Planning Commission that allows them to essentially 04:22:55
make make that determination. They can then appeal it and it goes to the City Council. A lot of language decisions have the 04:23:00
ability for for an appeal and that that just this is clarifies who the appeal authority would be. So Morgan are you saying that 04:23:06
you would? 04:23:11
You would rather that it just goes back to the city, the Planning Commission instead of having it get the approval from you go 04:23:17
through the site plan process with the Planning Commission. Yeah, I mean I I think the Planning Commission thought thought about 04:23:23
it really well and and going through the Planning Commission for the recommendation, I I could do it too. I mean I'm fine with 04:23:28
that, but going through the Planning Commission and then having the appeal. 04:23:33
You know, having like through the appeal authority is defined City Council, I I think that's that's very reasonable. I think I 04:23:40
understand. So you have an option, you want to put it through the Planning Commission. It could also they're asking for an appeal 04:23:45
for the City Council. Otherwise you could put it through the community development director for a decision and then it could go to 04:23:50
the site plan as it would normally go, so to sort of restate the whole package. 04:23:56
For purposes of making a motion it. 04:24:02
That we. 04:24:04
City Council approved the development agreement with the following revisions. 04:24:07
You would strike section 4.4. That's the section about the public infrastructure districts. 04:24:12
You would strike exhibit F and the last sentence of section one, point 2.39. 04:24:19
That refers to section. 04:24:25
And then we would keep in place. 04:24:28
Requirement that the determination of what is a regionally significant. 04:24:31
Entertainment. 04:24:36
And site plan approval would go to the Planning Commission. But if the Planning Commission rejects. 04:24:38
The developers proposal as what is a regionally significant entertainment? 04:24:45
That can be appealed to the City Council, Yes, Steve, is that right? 04:24:50
We could do that one the appeal to the City Council or the. 04:24:55
Community Development director and I don't care which one you guys want to do. 04:25:00
I think you put your planner in a difficult situation if he has to override the Planning Commission. 04:25:08
I just think on the I trust Morgan, but the org chart makes it hard for him, right? Regardless of who's in that. 04:25:17
Well, hold on one second. 04:25:26
Well, I don't know. I kind of want to talk more about green space. 04:25:29
Did you guys end up finding those numbers for me? 04:25:36
Yeah. So kind of the the request was but similar or like what it was been approved in the past for number units per per, per 04:25:40
acres. 04:25:45
I'll just ask this question. Is there any opportunity to expand the green space that we have right now? 04:25:51
In this. 04:25:57
In. 04:26:00
Is there a target area? 04:26:01
Yes, I'm looking for the green space along the belts on Geneva. 04:26:04
The three quarter acre land donation. 04:26:10
Just on the, I don't know, but bigger than three, yeah, but that's what's on the table today. 04:26:13
So today there's a three quarter acre land donation. 04:26:33
Right along the future Geneva trail, you're asking can that be expanded and this is behind the megaplex on Geneva just for the 04:26:37
public's understanding. Well, that's on your feet kind of question. 04:26:43
I think. 04:26:52
Two responses to that. 04:26:55
We've kind of explored it a little bit in past conversations, you know, so we understand where. 04:26:58
The desire there. 04:27:07
We went a little thread there on our overall economics and obviously bringing things down to where they are. So there's some 04:27:09
concern there. Just what is that, what does that do the. 04:27:15
Is we are in. 04:27:22
With a potential tenant. 04:27:24
That would take the remaining land there that I think the city would. 04:27:26
Really excited to have. I don't know how to weigh that. 04:27:29
I think. 04:27:35
If there's a way? 04:27:40
The economic right? I don't know. 04:27:42
From the tax increment generated or something else if there's a way to help close the economic gap on that but we made available 04:27:44
more land after a certain amount of time. 04:27:50
If this other opportunity doesn't materialize, which again I I. 04:27:56
Is something that Vineyard would be really excited. 04:28:00
Steve, can you say like category wise what what you're looking at or going to keep quiet? I wish I could. I really have to. I 04:28:03
really have to honor the negotiations I've been. 04:28:09
And those. 04:28:14
And and not sure market data so. 04:28:16
That's just, that's just integrity to to to honor those agreements. So I apologize. 04:28:23
So. 04:28:32
Option to expand it. 04:28:35
I think we could be open to something along those lines if there's middle ground to find a way to do that. OK, How would you write 04:28:37
that? 04:28:40
What would you recommend? What would you feel comfortable with? 04:28:47
I don't want to say it because if I say it, it's going to be extreme, you know. 04:28:51
I'm gonna ask for everything. 04:28:55
Well, I think it depends on. 04:28:59
Is there an opportunity for the city to purchase more land there? Yes. Are there other adjacent parcels? 04:29:02
That you could also consider an opportunity to expand that from three quarters acres, yes. 04:29:07
So I just think there's a lot of optionality. I don't know how to deal with it here, but if you want us to put some generic 04:29:12
language in there about. 04:29:15
You know applicant will provide an option. 04:29:19
For the city to purchase additional land after, you know, two years if if, if there hasn't been another user identified. 04:29:23
Something along those. 04:29:30
I'm. I'm OK with that. 04:29:32
But that's. 04:29:38
You know, that's just being quick on the feed. 04:29:41
Morgan, do you have any recommendations as I was kind of looking at those numbers and considering that? 04:29:50
Million Pence ask. 04:29:56
Sorry guys, I know you want to go home and go to sleep. 04:30:00
Yeah. 04:30:04
What Let me think. I mean, I I know in the past. 04:30:06
I believe like the in the February and Steve you can correct me or Jimmy you might remember this, I was at 1.5. 04:30:09
Acres What? What the city was looking at and that and that. 04:30:17
So that would basically be about half of that. 04:30:22
In the February, the February it was, it was one acre. So we reduced it 25% just like the residential, but there was an option 04:30:27
right, to purchase another half acre, there was option. 04:30:31
A potential city purchase. So there, I mean that's an area that like you're saying let's go up to 1 anchor with an option to buy 04:30:38
more. 04:30:42
Yeah, yeah. I mean if you, if you wanted to go back to that that that original, I mean that that would be a proposal that we could 04:30:48
see. 04:30:52
The other tenant wouldn't fit. They need exactly what's left, but we can put in there something. 04:30:56
That will negotiate in good faith to either bring this tenant. 04:31:01
Right. If the city's interested in that or the city has the opportunity to purchase additional. 04:31:05
Where were we going to put the other the one acre? Where would that fit inside here? 04:31:11
Same area as the three. 04:31:17
All right, it was. It was back behind the theater here. 04:31:21
You're also bumping an opportunity. 04:31:27
You think we'll we'll lose it? So what if we? I don't, I mean. 04:31:31
Once they do a site plan there may be some with some wiggle room. Again we'll negotiate in good faith. It is just to kind of add 04:31:36
from like an economic development perspective where your 650 is going to connect into into Geneva and that that corner honestly is 04:31:43
a really great corner for for for future business whether it's retail or or or whatnot. So I I don't know exactly what size we 04:31:49
would need, but I I would be reluctant to say let's do like the whole thing is that something space I I think an option would be a 04:31:55
really great opportunity but. 04:32:02
You know if we got, if we got the we'll go ahead and do an option council. Do you feel good about that? I heard these things. No 04:32:10
tandem parking. We solved the parking issue. Remove PID language. We're going to. 04:32:16
Strike section. 04:32:22
Is that right or was it 4.4? 04:32:24
Exhibit AF 4.4 with the appeal process to go back to the City Council and we'll have an option on land. 04:32:28
That will work out and you'll work in good faith. Could we be kind of mayor just so is it. So it's a the land donation is still 04:32:36
three quarter acre with an option to go up to one acre is. 04:32:43
What I was saying was I wanted you to go up to one acre and give us an option. 04:32:51
But then we just didn't come up with a you said we were gonna lose a tenant, you know? So that's what I'd like to see. 04:32:57
Go up to an acre with an option but if we can only do an option because we're going to lose some variation if it was that I mean 04:33:04
it is a park and and so there'll need to be some parking So I would I would suggest that if it's a recreation based. 04:33:10
Type type business, but then maybe there's there's some shared parking that that can occur there. It's going to be a a trail. The 04:33:17
idea is to because you can see from the plan how you have pockets of of of like parks on the periphery. The idea was to provide 04:33:24
kind of another park there that would be a a public park. 04:33:30
We want to make a motion. I think we're just going to put it in. What is it? What is the wording we can use? 04:33:38
I don't want anything. 04:33:47
So if it's a. 04:33:49
Yeah. So if we keep it at the either at the three fourth acre or if you want to do the full acre that there that when the parking 04:33:51
lot is instructed for the the, the park that it it be a shared. 04:33:59
Parking lot between the park and the and the commercial user if it's a recreational use because. 04:34:08
I don't know exactly who they're talking about, but I think with that if you if you had something that was recreation based that 04:34:15
could work well next to a park, I mean that the two actually could could be really cohesive together, OK. Does that work for you? 04:34:21
The concept of shared parking isn't a concern at all, yeah. 04:34:33
I think that's what I heard that was different because your parking would. 04:34:37
Pretty much absorb that that corner acre. So are you saying an option on a park? 04:34:40
With but actual shared parking plans. 04:34:46
In the park and you'll work in good faith in case those other options don't workout. 04:34:52
OK. 04:34:58
Council, did you understand? Do you need help on a motion because everybody feel comfortable? 04:35:00
Jamie, do you need us to state anything out or do you feel like we've gotten everything? 04:35:08
Let me read my notes. 04:35:14
And I think I have everything. 04:35:16
The the motion would be. 04:35:19
To make sure the right one as previously stated, now you're adding. 04:35:23
Her need for the shared parking strike section 4.4 Strike exhibit F in the last section sentence of section one point 2.39. 04:35:32
Keep the language about Planning Commission approval of the proposed regionally significant entertainment anchor. Add the 04:35:41
developer right to appeal that decision to the City Council if the Planning Commission denies their proposal. 04:35:48
Add that there will be no tandem parking in the development. 04:35:56
And then add that when the parking lot is constructed, the park the parking lot shall be shared between commercial and park user. 04:36:01
If the shared parking frees up additional park space, then the city shall be given the option. 04:36:09
On that space. 04:36:14
And remove the PID language. That's section 4.40. That's four point. 04:36:15
OK, OK, good. 04:36:20
OK, so I have a motion that we I do apologize. 04:36:23
I said the only place would ever do tandem is if there was a grudge, right? So you have to have an enclosed garage inside of the 04:36:28
garage. 04:36:31
I just don't. Standard parking wouldn't. Is that a concern? This would be very limited. This would be like. 04:36:34
510% of the supply. I don't mind if you have 10 and parking. I just don't want it to count towards the tenants. Does that make 04:36:40
sense? 04:36:45
I just want to throw that out. So do we need to put no tanning park tandem parking that counts towards Towards parking? Is that 04:36:49
OK? 04:36:53
It shouldn't count or it shouldn't. 04:36:59
It shouldn't be utilized for retail or commercial uses. That's going to be extremely frustrating for someone. If they go to 04:37:01
dinner, they come out and they have to wait for someone else to thinking just like even like lakefront tells us that's where some 04:37:06
people are using their garage versus parking in that driveway or having to wait for their roommates to pull out. Yeah, we don't 04:37:11
want to duplicate that. 04:37:16
OK. So do we need to add the commercial aspect in as well or I think I have it. 04:37:25
OK, go ahead. 04:37:31
I'm reluctant. 04:37:34
All right. 04:37:38
Mayor I move that we approve Resolution 2023 Dash 54 development agreement for the Forge with the noted additions. 04:37:40
That's proposed. 04:37:50
Poorly by our. 04:37:52
Legal counsel, OK, we have a first fight ICE with the noted changes. 04:37:54
Second Second by Amber. This is done by Roll call Tice. Amber. Yay, Marty. 04:38:00
Christy. 04:38:06
OK, we'll go ahead and move into our Can you tell me what Marty's, what, what did Marty vote? 04:38:08
Public Hearing Peace District, The creation of a hidden resolution 2023-58 and Jamie will lead us in this discussion our City 04:38:17
Attorney. 04:38:23
Give me just one moment, OK? 04:38:31
While you do that. 04:38:34
Okay. 04:39:23
OK. 04:39:26
There are two items back-to-back on the agenda. The 1st is item 9.8 and the next is item 9.9. 04:39:28
They both relate to applications the city has. 04:39:36
To create public infrastructure districts. Jamie, are you gonna open a public hearing? 04:39:40
We can do that in a minute. I'll introduce it and then that can open the public hearing. 04:39:46
The the 1st is the creation of a public infrastructure district in the East Geneva area. I'll show an image in a minute. It'll 04:39:50
show where these are located and the applicant. 04:39:55
Can speak to that as well. And then the second is for creation of public infrastructure districts in the West portion. 04:40:01
I wanted before we talk about the specific application to give. 04:40:09
A general overview of public infrastructure districts as I understand them. 04:40:14
This is meant. 04:40:18
An overview of the topic. 04:40:21
A means of hopefully answering some questions that people will have about what this is and what the. 04:40:24
Roll in it may be and then also as a way to jog. 04:40:29
Thoughts and questions that people may have. 04:40:36
About this, so cash, we go to Slide 2. 04:40:38
So what is the Public Infrastructure District? 04:40:44
Public infrastructure districts are fairly new in Utah. They're not new nationally. 04:40:48
But a few years ago, the state legislature made a change and introduced public infrastructure districts, and they're beginning to 04:40:54
be used in a lot of different cities and developments throughout the state. 04:40:59
A public infrastructure district creates an independent local government entity. 04:41:05
And those entities are governed under the Local District Act. 04:41:10
They're created, they create a new tax revenue stream. They have the right to impose a mill levy. 04:41:15
That's a property tax levy. It's capped at a certain amount by statute. 04:41:21
And that mill levy can then be used to fund, finance and construct public infrastructure. 04:41:27
And what we're talking about here for these particular projects are things like. 04:41:33
Streets, storm water, infrastructure, sewer parks, trails. 04:41:37
Open space. 04:41:43
As the type of infrastructure that might be. 04:41:44
Funded by the Public Infrastructure District. Financed by the Public Infrastructure District and constructed. 04:41:48
By the Public Infrastructure District. 04:41:54
Unlike special service districts, local districts, other types of. 04:41:56
Governmental entities like. 04:42:03
Kids do not have the ability. 04:42:05
Maintain this infrastructure long term. So what they do is they build it, they build it, the city standards. 04:42:08
And then it's turned over to the city, and the city owns it, just like it would any other public infrastructure. 04:42:15
Let me go to the next slide. 04:42:21
I apologize for the small text here. I wanted to keep this at about four or five slides. 04:42:24
The purpose, scope and power of pits. So we've talked a little bit about the first one it's it facilitates the funding and 04:42:29
construction. 04:42:33
It assesses property taxes on the proper. 04:42:38
Owners within the boundaries. 04:42:42
Of the PIT, so the application comes from. 04:42:44
The owner of the property or the owners of the property sometimes. 04:42:47
In this one, it's a single. 04:42:51
They issued debt repayable from those property taxes. 04:42:54
They have the broad powers to finance public infrastructure of many types. 04:42:58
They have the authority to bond against the revenues that they receive. 04:43:03
The city's role they the. 04:43:08
Receives the pet. 04:43:13
We agreed a governing documents and approved those governing documents and that's the cities most significant role. 04:43:15
In the creation of the. 04:43:22
And then I'll just note on the final two bullets that one of the things Pids also can do is help you enhance the public 04:43:25
infrastructure that's put into a development. So instead of getting the bare bones. 04:43:31
You'll have additional resources that you can get something a little bit nicer. 04:43:37
And a little bit better for the. 04:43:41
And then the public financing, of course. 04:43:43
Get more amenities or better amenities for a city. 04:43:47
Those public dollars are cheaper to finance. 04:43:51
Then if you were to go to private markets as a developer. 04:43:55
Next slide. 04:43:59
So the creation process, how are they created? 04:44:02
The developer or property owner has to have 100% consent within the properties that are applying for the pit. 04:44:05
That's an easy equation here because we have a single property owner who's making the application and the entire. 04:44:12
The proposed bids are all within that property owner's property. 04:44:20
They retain counsel. They incur those costs of being the creating entity. 04:44:25
And allowing the pit to be created, they make a petition to the. 04:44:32
And then the city arrives where we are today. 04:44:36
Review the proposed governing documents. We suggest edits. We negotiate over what's in them, what's in them. 04:44:39
And then the City Council can contemplate that approval of and that adoption of the of the governing documents. And that would. 04:44:46
Authorized the creation of the. 04:44:55
The governing documents touch on four significant things. They talk about the property types that can be taxed. 04:44:59
And I'll go through that in a moment. 04:45:06
They talk about the mill rate and the borrowing limits that would apply to the. 04:45:08
They talk about the composition and the membership of the board. 04:45:14
For the pit and then they talk about the types of infrastructure. 04:45:18
That are eligible, eligible to be funded, financed and constructed under the pit And I guess the way I would think of that is. 04:45:23
The PIT statute gives you a big list, and you can pair that list down. 04:45:29
To things that are. 04:45:33
Relevant to that particular development. 04:45:35
Next slide. 04:45:38
So this is the map of the proposed downtown. 04:45:41
The the proposal, and I'm not going to go too into depth on this, but the applicant can answer questions if they'd like about it 04:45:45
would be. 04:45:49
You in the Governing documents provide for kids within these two boundaries the. 04:45:53
East and the West. Boundary 1 here in pink, one here in orange. 04:46:00
And then within those boundaries you will have. 04:46:04
Five smaller PEDs that would be controlled by the. 04:46:08
Controlling Pit. 04:46:12
A lot of you live in homes that are controlled by homeowners associations, and some of those homeowners associations have. 04:46:14
A master HOA and then you have smaller HO. 04:46:22
And the master will be over things that apply to the whole neighborhood and development. 04:46:26
And then the sub age always would apply. 04:46:32
Your your own building or the few buildings that are massed together? 04:46:35
And this would operate pretty similar. 04:46:40
The primary idea behind kids is that you can localize the tax impact of development. 04:46:43
So when you create the PID, you're basically. 04:46:48
The the developers basically saying we want to tax our own development to provide for the infrastructure and not tax the city at 04:46:53
large. 04:46:57
To pay for that infrastructure. 04:47:01
And then within the sub Pids in each of these areas. 04:47:03
They can localize the impact of those. 04:47:08
Taxing entities. 04:47:11
So let me go through what's in. 04:47:13
Kind of broad brush strokes what's in these two agreements? 04:47:16
Or the two governing documents. 04:47:19
The. 04:47:21
And these pits are proposed to apply only to commercial and multi family properties. 04:47:23
The multi family properties will not. 04:47:29
Owner occupied properties. And so the way I think about the proposal put forward by the developer is it's a proposed tax on the 04:47:32
properties they intend to hold and keep. 04:47:37
It's not a tax on anyone. 04:47:43
Purchases a home and lives in their home. 04:47:46
Within the pit. 04:47:49
So there is no tax on owner occupied residential within the P. 04:47:50
And there's no tax outside of the PID boundaries. 04:47:55
It's authorized by the governing documents. 04:47:59
The mill levy is capped at 15. 04:48:02
I'm not a math whiz. I'm not going to go in depth on this. The applicant can answer some of. 04:48:05
But what it means is 0.015 dollars. 04:48:09
Per dollar of taxable value of the taxable property. 04:48:14
Within the. 04:48:18
And keep. 04:48:19
The taxable property is just the commercial. 04:48:21
And the multi. 04:48:24
Owned by the developer. 04:48:27
The debt limit for the two Pids is set at 1 billion for the West PID and 500 million for the East. 04:48:30
And then the final bullet is just a reminder that the documents require adherence to city standards and city requirements. 04:48:38
And so when the infrastructure is built, it's built according to those standards and those requirements. 04:48:46
The city has no obligation to accept that infrastructure. 04:48:51
And less. 04:48:55
It deems that the requirements. 04:48:57
And then we negotiated into the governing documents that. 04:49:00
This won't just be the standards that exist today, but as the city standards grow and evolve. 04:49:04
Or change. 04:49:09
Whenever the infrastructure. 04:49:11
The standards at the time it's filter the standards that will apply. 04:49:14
To the pit. 04:49:17
So that's kind of broad brush what's before the council. 04:49:19
The applicants here and I know they can answer questions specific to what they're seeking in the application, what their reasons 04:49:23
might be for. 04:49:27
Asking for it, but that's an overview of the. 04:49:31
And then kind of a high level summary of what's in the governing document? 04:49:34
The board composition will be. 04:49:39
Individuals. 04:49:45
That are named in the governing documents and then the Council, when it approves the governing documents today, would be 04:49:47
approving. 04:49:50
The board composition in those documents. 04:49:54
OK, let's go ahead and open a public hearing. 04:49:58
So move first by Marty, second by ties. All in favor, OK? 04:50:02
Public Do you have comments? If you do, can you come up and state your name and make your comment? 04:50:09
OK. Sorry, Evan, I'm on utah.gov. 04:50:23
On. 04:50:28
And I'm just have a question about the interaction with the tax increment finance the TIF. 04:50:30
It says that kids can act as counterparty to RDA revenues. 04:50:37
Thereby creating a tax exempt BOR. 04:50:43
To capitalize the. 04:50:46
Without having third party debt on RDA balance. 04:50:48
So does that mean? 04:50:52
Will you be tax exempt when you're doing this? 04:50:53
To be what they be exempt from taxes if. 04:50:56
Develop a pit. Yeah. So it's important to recognize that the pit is a government entity. 04:51:01
When it's once it's created, it's a it's a small little government that operates within this area. 04:51:07
It has really limited authority as it relates to its function and its purpose. It's only to build and and. 04:51:13
Provide that infrastructure not to operate it, not to do anything long term. 04:51:20
Once all the infrastructure is built, then the pit. 04:51:24
And and wind. 04:51:28
We One of the things the city has to think about in this whole process is long term. 04:51:30
How do we care for the assets in the downtown? 04:51:36
That's part of the site plan approval process, but it also will need to be. 04:51:39
Part of the long term conversation here of do you provide for the maintenance through a special service district? 04:51:46
Which is what I think may be the best solution right now. 04:51:54
Do you wait and see whether the PIT authorities expanded at a later point? 04:51:58
So we have a little marker in the governing documents that states. 04:52:03
If the authority of Pids is expanded, where it can maintain and construct? 04:52:07
Then they can come to the city, seek approval to expand the governing document to include that authority. 04:52:13
But we're not making that decision today. 04:52:19
And then? 04:52:21
On your question about RDA funds, yes, they they function together and can be paired together and the PID can do. 04:52:23
The financing and the procure. 04:52:33
Of those public infrastructure improvements and the way it would be different than just a straight reimbursement agreement is. 04:52:35
When it's a straight reimbursement agreement, the developer does the procurement we require. They follow competitive procurement 04:52:42
rules, but they do it as a private entity. 04:52:46
And the PIT would do a procurement as a public entity, not as a private entity. 04:52:51
OK, I have another question. 04:52:57
About defaulting. 04:53:01
In the In the event, the proceeds of limited tax are insufficient to meet annual debt service as it comes due. 04:53:06
It is not an event of def. 04:53:14
Bondholder has no statutory. 04:53:17
To require additional taxes or. 04:53:20
No statutory recourse to the property or property. 04:53:23
And then it says bonds can be sold in Dunno. 04:53:28
Denominations. Excuse me, half. 04:53:32
So is that your plan? 04:53:36
Do denominations of 500. 04:53:40
For the West and. 04:53:44
Yeah. I'll take the first half and then you take the second-half. I think the first half of your question is if if the pit 04:53:48
defaults on its bond, what happens to the city? 04:53:52
And the answer is the ped's a separate entity from the city. 04:53:56
The city has no financial obligation based on what debt the pit incurs. 04:54:00
Its debt is not on the city's books. It's a separate entity, and then Matt can talk about the next. 04:54:05
I'd like to. I'd like to know how. 04:54:12
That default is solved. I mean, who pays for? 04:54:15
So sorry. It's a risk the bondholder takes. Yeah so this so the the reason why Mac Woodbury Land owner. 04:54:21
The reason why the if the fit is really it's an additional levy that is just on our side effectively an income that we would have. 04:54:29
That's why the it's like if we went to a bank or any lender they would underwrite the assets. 04:54:34
One reason why we're limiting them to commercial assets is because they're gonna underwrite the analyze. 04:54:40
And underwrite, you know the cash flow that's available and they're taking that risk. And so just like any lender that would make 04:54:44
a commercial loan and anywhere would take the risk on whether or not those payments are going to come through. So there's what 04:54:49
we're really trying to do with the ideas is get the infrastructure. 04:54:54
Quicker and more efficiently, but then also make sure they're not burdening anybody outside of our district with any of that risk 04:54:59
or cost. 04:55:02
And so this is the only vehicle that we have in our state that allows you to do something like that. 04:55:06
OK. I have one more another question. The governing board. 04:55:11
They'll be you, Nate and Pete. 04:55:15
And who else? 04:55:20
Is it just you 2 principles or are there more to be on the governing board? 04:55:22
Pete Evans for the developer. So the governing the governing board will be the ownership group and the reason why the governing 04:55:33
board in this case. 04:55:37
So a lot of concern with some of the concern with kids is a lack of representation. 04:55:43
Of the people that are being. 04:55:49
In this case, the only people who are being taxed are the land owners. 04:55:51
So there will not be property that's sold to end users for, for example, in a townhome that has to pay the paid. 04:55:56
They will be exempt from the pit. 04:56:04
So the only it's really just a borrowing. 04:56:07
Mechanism. 04:56:10
So we're adding an additional mill levy that's just a fractional tax. 04:56:11
On our own property. 04:56:19
And then paying it back over. 04:56:21
Through that collection over 25. 04:56:26
How many meals are we going to be taxing? I don't know. So we we have a financial consultant under contract right now they're the 04:56:29
cap is is 15. 04:56:33
I mean, we haven't done the analysis to see if we would go all the way up to 15 mills, but again. 04:56:39
Because there's no one else in the Mill levy area. 04:56:46
Then it's really just a loan to ourselves. Can you explain those for everyone? Yeah, so. So a mill is just a. 04:56:51
A financial term. 04:56:58
.00 so it's basically one thousandth of a percent. 04:57:00
So if the normal property tax. 04:57:05
1% the. 04:57:09
And you added 15 mills, your new property tax would be 1.15%. 04:57:11
OK, another question. 04:57:20
As governing board will be a certain number of years. 04:57:23
And then you have. 04:57:28
Having board. 04:57:29
And they're supposed to live in the. 04:57:31
Are you, are you going to require them to live in the east or the West or what is on the east and what is the West where they can 04:57:34
live? Yeah. So if we were going to transfer property. 04:57:39
And the PID levy went with that property. So for example if we sold a townhome. 04:57:45
And that townhome user was then was then obligated to repay this. 04:57:51
No, this levy for the next 25 years. 04:57:56
Then we would have to transition that board over to people who lived in the pit and were paying that money. 04:57:59
In this case, we're not. 04:58:06
So we're we're not, we're not asking anybody that is going to purchase property in here to pay that LE. 04:58:08
For the next 25 or whatever years, so it'll just be. 04:58:16
Both paying the tax. 04:58:20
And capturing. 04:58:24
The mill levy. 04:58:27
For the duration of the. 04:58:29
25 years, yeah. 04:58:33
Correct. So keep in mind, Daria, there are terms to the board and they're staggered so that when the terms begin to lapse, they 04:58:35
don't all lapse at the same time. 04:58:40
And then if you. 04:58:45
Yes. And if. 04:58:46
If a board member, when their term expires, no longer serves or they withdraw from serving on the board, then the city has a voice 04:58:49
in in who's appointed to fill that vacancy. 04:58:54
But it has to be someone that lives here. 04:59:00
No, the pit statute allows. 04:59:03
Pit board members that do not live in the pit and I think that's a recognition that. 04:59:07
Most Pids are created by developers making that application. 04:59:12
And they're creating it when nobody lives there. 04:59:16
And they may own the property but not live there like the circumstance we're talking about. 04:59:21
The pid levy will apply only to. 04:59:27
Commercial ventures. 04:59:31
You know properties own commercial and use for commercial purposes and then commercial ventures that own. 04:59:33
The for rent multifamily housing. 04:59:39
OK, so let me make sure I get this correct. 04:59:43
So any of the residential will. 04:59:46
Any of the residential that sold to end users will not be subject to the levy. 04:59:51
Correct. And that and again I mean that's one of the big. 04:59:57
That's one of the big issues that some people have with kids is that you have people that. 05:00:02
But might buy a townhome or a home and then they have this additional tax on their property tax for the next 25 years. 05:00:07
So I think. 05:00:15
The city attorney and the city staff did a really good job of looking at what are some of the shortcomings of kids and negotiating 05:00:16
those things. 05:00:20
So that the only people paying this mill levy are. 05:00:25
The commercial property owners and developers. 05:00:31
Thank you. 05:00:38
Come on up. 05:00:40
It's not hearing. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about his, but it's been a fun week of trying to learn. 05:00:44
I would like to ask though if you guys feel this is in the best interest of the city. 05:00:51
OK, well, we haven't voted on. I'm not asking for a vote. You feel like this is the best, in the best interests of the city? 05:00:57
Maybe. Jamie, since you don't vote, can I ask you that? No. No, I didn't. No, I mean, I don't know. So that wouldn't be a 05:01:02
question. 05:01:06
I think the council will get to a point where it will vote and you'll know by their vote what they think on it. I think they want 05:01:12
to hear from everybody first. If you feel like it's in the best interest of the city now, it's probably going to be in the best 05:01:16
interest of the city in two months. 05:01:21
So why? 05:01:26
Why not more education process for the public, for yourselves, for all five of you, for the two incoming? 05:01:29
And I find it hard to believe that. 05:01:36
I don't know. You guys, correct me if I'm wrong, has spent that much time studying the Pids and how it affects everything in a 05:01:38
relationship, the Rdas and the port that's coming in and there's everything going on. 05:01:43
Again, I could be wrong. You could have spent the last six months going over, I don't know. But if it's in the best interest of 05:01:49
the city now, it will be in the best interest of the city in two months. 05:01:54
OK. Thank. 05:01:59
Ryan Hoboy resident. 05:02:06
My line of thought is similar to Shawn's Umm. I lived in Orem for about 9 years and. 05:02:09
Got to drive by the monstrosity of the Midtown project. 05:02:16
It feels like this project is an attempt to shift some risk. 05:02:20
From the developer into the pit which? 05:02:25
We may or may not know who's going to be responsible for those. 05:02:28
Risks in the future because you know, they assume it and they have to have to sell the property which we saw through the Midtown 05:02:31
project and a whole blank site of. 05:02:35
Who knows what material that was for years? 05:02:39
And I have concerns. 05:02:43
That responsibility shouldn't be assumed by a developer. As a developer, there's a risk and a reward, and that reward is often 05:02:47
very large. 05:02:50
And but that comes because of the risk. 05:02:54
And they're shifting that. 05:02:57
With this, it feels that way and along with SE. 05:02:59
I haven't had time to dig into this. You guys may have spent months on this reviewing it and they feel more comfortable making 05:03:03
this decision. 05:03:06
But to call a public commentary 24 hours after it's posted on public notice? It's a little short notice for me. 05:03:10
To stand up at this pulpit and have an educated. 05:03:17
So I would appreciate having more time to review it myself and then having another public comment period so I can be educated. 05:03:20
From this pulpit and maybe half the seasons I made today were. 05:03:27
But I haven't had time to do that research. 05:03:30
So I would appreciate that consideration. 05:03:32
Yeah, I. 05:03:38
My comment is. 05:03:40
You know, this is the first time I see Vineyard or Utah City being, hey, we need. 05:03:44
To be created so that we can go get government loans and be bonding. 05:03:50
Ever. 05:03:57
We just barely had a very long election where it was. 05:03:58
You know, and the voice was very loud and. 05:04:03
You know, one sided. 05:04:06
When you do that and it's like now we're going to create. 05:04:08
Allow the developer to create a government entity. 05:04:12
And to create their own board in a 24 hour period and give them access to go as much as $1.5 billion. 05:04:17
And oh you know, in a 24 hour period. 05:04:27
And once they are created, you're right, we have no oversight of that at all. Now they might be great and they might go through 05:04:33
and be able to build that infrastructure. But my my question is, is if Utah City is so great, why not go out and get the capital 05:04:39
and the investors themselves Why, why do you need if if you're you're obviously turning to a government entity for us to create 05:04:46
you as a government entity so that you can be treated that way and get better financial things. That's a big commitment that Utah 05:04:52
City is. 05:04:59
We're hearing for the first time in 24 hours that this is going to be they need government financing. 05:05:06
To shift to that right, none of our taxpayers have been told that until the last 24 hours right that it will be a government 05:05:11
entity financed. 05:05:16
So my aunt my question is is? 05:05:22
How long of a process would you give citizens? 05:05:25
To think about a $1.5 billion loan like you know for them to be and for them to. 05:05:29
Do you have access to this as an independent government entity? 05:05:38
I submit to you it wouldn't be a two week period. 05:05:42
I mean, I had a very big, long decision. 05:05:46
And I bet to they're good men. We've fought out in the hallway last meeting for two hours and I really enjoyed the back and forth 05:05:50
and and I actually saw a lot of integrity in them as we flushed out a lot of things. Me and Sarah, we were out there till 1:00 in 05:05:55
the morning. 05:06:01
And so it could be that it is the. 05:06:06
But in terms of do government process and also the board, the interview process of interviewing those three men and the and the 05:06:10
citizens ability to look at their character because you are putting 1.5 billion in their hands. 05:06:17
And treating them like so there's a lot of government and being thrown out. This myself for working with the National League of 05:06:25
Cities. 05:06:28
There would be a lot of government process in terms of public. 05:06:32
Ability to talk about. 05:06:38
I don't know three to six months, but but I do like the creativity if if it is so needed for cleaning up. But I see it as bad 05:06:42
faith if it's something you're going to be approving tonight. It's like how if this was the int. 05:06:49
Why didn't we know about this for like the last month or two months or three months of saying this is the intent that we're going 05:06:56
to go, you know, when? 05:06:59
A $1.5 billion project, it was like, well, we're going to need 100 million, a 200,000,300 million. You know, this is a very long, 05:07:04
large sum. 05:07:08
So was it kept from us? I'm not saying bad intent for you guys, but was it? This is just a really lot to take in right now. And 05:07:13
then And then the other thing is. 05:07:18
We have not seen this in Utah County. 05:07:25
So what makes it the risk that vineyard? 05:07:29
You know, and also across the state in terms of Pids when I spoke, when I spoke with the inland port. 05:07:34
Ben was awesome. We're against Pids. We don't like them. We don't want to do it. The pit will not be connected to us. 05:07:42
So why was his opinion on? 05:07:47
He's like if it is doing, it's the city's doing and that scared me because it was like. 05:07:50
You know, so why is there against? We also have the head of the Republican Party come right and say don't do it. This is taxation 05:07:55
without representation. We're going to be setting up a government entity with these. Fine. 05:08:01
You know which are great, but it comes back to citizens of. 05:08:07
Our citizens will never have the ability to vote those three people. If they're doing good within the first two years, they will 05:08:11
never be able to pivot and and and shift. 05:08:15
On a 1.5 billion, right? So that's scary because we changed then. Have you seen elections and we say, hey, we need to pivot and 05:08:20
this would be for 25 years, these are the guys forever. 05:08:25
Well, if they're going to respond to that comment, go ahead. 05:08:36
I just wanted to clarify. So the those borrowings are the total limits over the entire term of the PID. 05:08:41
So there wouldn't be anyone thing and again. 05:08:47
Just our own money that we would be, that we would eat, that they're having. 05:08:51
It would just be our own cash that we have generated from the assets that would be then being used to pay back that debt. It 05:08:55
wouldn't ever be any type of the whole purpose of the pit that we've created was to limit this to commercial property. 05:09:01
A lot of the pins and a lot of backlash you've seen against Pids when they were first coming into as perfectly clarified it was 05:09:07
because it was on residential property and it was that additional levy. 05:09:12
This is commercial assets. This is our own money just coming back to paper debt. 05:09:18
And it's really in response to the market they're in right now. There ISN. 05:09:23
It's a financing tool with our own money S we tax ourselves, use that tax to borrow from different lenders than some of the other 05:09:26
lenders we've used for with that same money anyway, so. 05:09:31
Just. 05:09:37
Just wrote Evan, so just one quick point of clarification. So I I totally agree with Jake that if there was taxation without 05:09:40
representation. 05:09:45
We would have to have a lot longer discussion about this. 05:09:51
The reality is the taxation has perfect representation. 05:09:55
Because we're the only party being taxed. 05:09:59
And so we are both the. 05:10:03
Beneficiary and the taxing source. 05:10:08
And so there there, there isn't anybody outside of the pit boundaries. 05:10:10
That will have a tax levy imposed upon them because of these pits. 05:10:15
And there's no one within the PID boundaries. 05:10:20
That's a residential end. 05:10:23
That will have the tax levy levied upon them either. 05:10:25
So the again, just to be clear, the only people that will be paying this tax will be. 05:10:29
Chip Price, Providence. 05:10:42
So my my question is for Amber. 05:10:45
What is a pit? 05:10:49
No. 05:10:53
Christy, can you explain to me what a pit is? 05:10:55
OK. 05:11:00
I'm not. I'm not trying. I'm I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to make people feel stupid because I I I don't understand what they 05:11:03
are. 05:11:06
And and and I know that you guys are gearing up for a vote on a thing. 05:11:11
That that I that you need to understand. 05:11:16
So can I respond to that? 05:11:21
I feel like I understand what it is. I've been researching it, I've been having meetings and I feel like I've learned a lot And to 05:11:22
me it it makes sense and I understand the concerns of it. One thing that I. 05:11:28
Is that it's just like what he. 05:11:34
It's not being, it's not residents being. 05:11:37
The landowner being taxed, they're the landowner and that's basically just getting them lower interest rates on loans filled 05:11:40
infrastructure that says RDA money. So we're not having to pay for that infrastructure through our RDA, then we can use that for 05:11:45
other things. Am I right? Am I so far right? 05:11:50
And then? 05:11:56
I I just see it as a benefit because lower interest rates are going to make things more affordable for the people coming in to 05:11:58
rent their properties. 05:12:02
I understand 100% that if the public feels like they need more time, I don't mind waiting to vote on this for two weeks. 05:12:08
But as of right now I feel really comfortable with it. Just. 05:12:15
It makes sense to me. So you can see our, you can see our concern in that in that there's there's a significant amount of tax base 05:12:19
that's involved in this type of proposal. 05:12:25
And we don't really understand what it is that the city gets out of it. Like what? What's the benefit for us? Is it, is it a 05:12:31
benefit for the builder? Is it? And so there's there's a lot of those types of things. Can I add this one is important. 05:12:39
They are going to be paying a higher tax than what normally we would pay. So I kind of think about it when they were when Oren was 05:12:47
talking about doing their split from Alpine School District. 05:12:53
And we were all sick. Not everyone had the same opinion. A majority of. 05:12:58
Politicians I guess is the best way to put are people that were for Orem school district were sick of paying for Saratoga schools. 05:13:06
And so for me I see it kind of like this PID. 05:13:13
Is going to pay for itself like we're generating money from the developer they're taking loans against themselves and then we as 05:13:17
residents in Southern Vineyard don't have to pay for their infrastructure. Does that make sense? I mean I I I'm, I'm understanding 05:13:24
I'm understanding what you're saying. I just I I think that you know there's some due diligence there that we we we want more 05:13:31
information like if if they're going to be paying a high tax benefit or burden for this. 05:13:38
Why would they want it like? Because it gets them more access to bonds and lower interest rates so that they can build. 05:13:45
Faster and better infrastructure. I mean, these are all questions I've had this week, though, and I've had the opportunity. I've 05:13:53
called several people, I've met with several people, and I I agree. I think this information needs to be widely known. But I just. 05:14:00
I'm answering your questions so I I can share what I've learned. Yeah, OK. 05:14:07
Do you have more questions? 05:14:12
Go back to the microphone. Sorry. Yeah, I listen to the explanation and I I I I think I'm a pretty intelligent person. And I I. 05:14:16
Think I'd get it, but there's so much that I don't know that it makes me really, really concerned that we're that there's almost a 05:14:25
$2 billion price tag attached to a thing. 05:14:31
And there's a governing body that I don't have the ability to elect. My question for you is what? What are your concerns? So I can 05:14:38
write them down and address them that that that's my biggest concern. I mean, if you're not paying the taxes on it. 05:14:46
But we don't get, we don't get any of the representation representation over that. 05:14:54
Yeah, but normally you get representation over the taxes that you pay, but you would like representation over the taxes that 05:15:00
you're not paying. 05:15:04
Well, I think one thing can I is that right? No, I think that when. 05:15:08
Because I don't understand the ambiguity of this particular device. 05:15:14
I don't. I Don. 05:15:20
I don't know what I don't know. 05:15:21
Right. So I look at another body that's not you. 05:15:24
That's going to be making decisions for themselves. 05:15:29
That makes me over over publicly. 05:15:34
But if we didn't do. 05:15:38
Then you guys would have more of a. 05:15:41
Right. You are an elected body. We put you there to listen and and and sort through. Yeah, I suppose the tradeoff would be that 05:15:45
instead of loving. 05:15:49
One entity that wants to take the tax in order to pay for the infrastructure, we, who are in charge of the rest of the taxes, 05:15:54
would have to levy all of the residents. 05:15:59
Equally to pay for infrastructure and roads. So it would be that. What they're saying is we will take an additional levy on this 05:16:05
property and will be taxed at a higher rate. 05:16:10
So that nobody else has to pay for the infrastructure that isn't around their area. 05:16:15
I may be able to clarify that a little bit and I apologize Jake, I wasn't meaning to interrupt, but. 05:16:21
Historically. 05:16:28
When developers come to build a project in. 05:16:30
I shouldn't even say historically on this part, they have a they have an obligation to pay for the infrastructure that. 05:16:35
The result of their development? 05:16:43
And that holds true here. 05:16:46
There are tools that they can use privately to do that. 05:16:47
There what this does is similar to what an RDA does that you're looking at future tax revenues. 05:16:53
And you're taking the future tax revenues generated by the development and using it as a tool to help the development occur in the 05:17:00
first place? 05:17:04
So this is an additional. 05:17:09
Tool that doesn't create a burden on the city directly that can be used to fund that infrastructure. Now to the historically where 05:17:12
where would you go for these sources? We touched on RDA, you can use RDA funds. 05:17:19
Often that sales tax revenues and or property tax revenues. 05:17:27
You could use the general funds of. 05:17:32
To pay for better. 05:17:35
And different improvements than maybe what the developer would want to put in their bones. 05:17:39
And then you could turn to creating a local entity like a special service district. 05:17:45
But special service districts, if they're created by this, they can be created by the city with the consent of the landowner, but 05:17:51
their obligations against the city? 05:17:56
So if we build the infrastructure with a special service district, you get the benefit of public procurement, public bond rates. 05:18:01
But you create an obligation against the city, which means. 05:18:09
When not this, neigh. 05:18:12
Needs to renew its infrastructure and the city needs to go out to market to do it. It has less capacity. 05:18:15
For that financial transaction and it would, I hope that helps kind of overview. So it's a new tax, not it doesn't take away from 05:18:22
any existing tax, right. But the thing that's starkly different is. 05:18:29
And think about. 05:18:35
The great people behind me, right, They went out build a. 05:18:37
It's going to be this massive billion dollar project. 05:18:41
And they don't, they're they're not private investors behind it. So that's a red flag for me and I don't know the, I don't know 05:18:44
the the investment community as to why they passed. 05:18:49
How they went through And now we're turning over to say, hey, treat us like a PID and let's do government money. And so it's like 05:18:55
why weren't those banks or or other financial institutions, Why aren't they jumping at this idea? You know, during the campaign I 05:19:03
talked about this is by a power plant, this is by a mosquito infested area. This is by a dump. This is, you know, this is has. 05:19:11
You know it has a lot of issues. So I don't know why the private financial instrument have have not you know now we're looking at 05:19:19
this new idea. 05:19:23
And maybe it has to do with the land. And so we've got to come in and. 05:19:28
But this is a massive decision to change it to a government, you know, a government loan and creating them as that, right? And you 05:19:31
know, we'll leave today and we'll find out. 05:19:38
And it'll go through thousands of people on Facebook of we're financing or we created them as a government entity. And there is 05:19:44
going to be thousands of people, right, that are going to hear this. And it's going to be, did we vote this through one point in 05:19:49
one night? 05:19:53
And it's like this, Sarah and Jake understand what it is because we're going to be taking this over, right? Because you can't just 05:19:59
throw it over and say, hey, created it. 05:20:02
Also with the voice of the people. 05:20:06
Hey, we don't want Utah City in terms of government funds. Let them build it. They have their density, they have what their things 05:20:09
right. 05:20:13
But so we have a mandate to reduce RDA funds. 05:20:18
Right. In terms of how we were voted for the next two years until the next voice is heard on our side of the Ledger. 05:20:22
It just. 05:20:29
This just. 05:20:32
Like honestly, if this were approved, I would, I would frown not upon you guys but around them. Like Sarah and I have got to wrap 05:20:33
our heads around and be given a given an opportunity because you're going to throw us this in like 17 days. 05:20:40
Go, OK, they're they're, you know, and I would like to go talk to financial experts to say are they smart enough to be able to 05:20:47
administer, what is their background? Have they gone to school to be able to manage? And they may, they probably have. 05:20:54
But there's so many due diligence things that a lot, you know, a lot of people need to go through and touch for 1.5 billion to do 05:21:01
that. 05:21:05
And the people that I've met with at the. 05:21:10
Are all extremely the state doesn't. So how does small Little Vineyard feel like? We know enough. 05:21:14
I don't feel like we have the expert. 05:21:21
Yet, and we need to study it out, that doesn't mean no, and that doesn't mean any attack on their integrity. 05:21:24
Or character. Or that we would want to work with them in good faith. Like, honestly, we thought it out the other day at night, and 05:21:31
I saw face to face and I was like, you know what? We had some very serious conversation. 05:21:36
And I just I want to have that relationship right. 05:21:42
But if we push this through, I'm going to be coming back going. I don't like that we because we've told our citizens that. 05:21:46
We we just want to get things right, you know? So anyway. 05:21:54
Mayor Williams, resident I'm annoying, expert and of course my phone died so I couldn't look up any numbers. But I do know a bit 05:22:02
about charter schools. If you have a charter, you want to start. 05:22:08
Utah State. The Board of Education doesn't want to take the risk on you. So you go out and find a developer who charges you 22% 05:22:13
interest instead of 7%. You understand that their risk is huge because. 05:22:19
They're taking a chance on you and so you're willing to pay them the 22% interest for the five years that you're required to. I 05:22:25
need. 05:22:29
You guys to talk to me like a 10 year old and explain to me like I just explained to charter school how that works? What are the 05:22:34
risks and reward are you going to make? 05:22:38
$100 million off this deal. What's your risk and reward? I don't understand. 05:22:42
Great question. Can I answer that? So I think going back on Nate Hutchinson. 05:22:47
Landowner, I think, you know, I said last week. 05:22:53
I think a lot of the issues we're having. 05:22:57
On all sides. 05:23:00
Is the lack of understanding of what's happening I? 05:23:02
Thank you. Thank you. I think that was coming, but I think one of the things we've talked to council about is is. 05:23:06
Getting elementary school sitting down, showing you exactly kind of what we've been working on with different councils for the 05:23:13
last 10-15 years. 05:23:17
I think the the concern and I think sometimes the frustration that I have, I can't speak for this council at all, but I think the 05:23:21
frustration I have. 05:23:25
Is when. When we start to hear things and there's people behind me. Not from today. They've been awesome. We've and he was smart 05:23:29
with the short sleeve Hawaiian shirt today too, but. 05:23:33
It's really hot in here, but I think one of the one of the issues. 05:23:38
That I have is last week I heard the the person behind me say I hate. 05:23:44
The city. 05:23:48
And these developers are certainly paying these people and none of this has been done in the open. 05:23:50
And that was really hurtful because I've worked. 05:23:55
I've worked with. 05:23:58
The last 10-11 years of councils here, I've worked with the last two mayors, I've worked with every City Council member from Nate 05:24:00
Riley and it's good to see Janae here again and see a lot of you here that that we haven't seen in a while. 05:24:06
We've been here doing. 05:24:13
Sorry has been here asking questions about, you know, or where our dog runs and some really good ideas that we've tweaked. 05:24:16
And I think one thing that we all need to do is we all need to understand that nothing to this point has been done in the dark. 05:24:23
Nothing. 05:24:26
Everything we've done has happened here in a public meeting. 05:24:30
And I think we're, we're saying let's move forward and continue to have those same discussions. To answer your question, because I 05:24:34
went off on a tangent, if we went to Zions Bank today and said we're going to borrow 1 1/2 billion dollars for the east and West 05:24:40
side of Geneva to put all this infrastructure in, this public infrastructure that we're going to end up giving to the city. It's 05:24:46
the same thing we did in Water's Edge. We built every street and every park and every trail in Water's Edge. 05:24:53
And we deeded that to the. 05:24:59
And we're going to do the same thing in East Geneva and West Geneva. 05:25:02
So you guys don't wouldn't have any issue if we went to Zions Bank and borrowed 1 1/2 billion dollars. Our interest rate at that 05:25:07
would be about today's dollars if anyone would give you any infrastructure dollars. Not because vineyard stocks in this by the 05:25:12
lake and all these other things we we actually. 05:25:17
There's a lot of things about Vineyard we like, and there are some things we're all going to work together to solve. 05:25:23
But we're not having issue getting financing right now. The issue is this. 05:25:28
If we go to Zions public finance with a PID. 05:25:32
We're going to a different department of science, finance. We're borrowing similar amount of dollars. 05:25:35
And we're saying we'll pay that back. We're going to pay it back in a different way that they just look at that and say, well, 05:25:40
that's less risk to us as bondholders because that that interest that they get, they don't have to pay tax on. 05:25:46
That's really the only that's the big advantage to developers in doing. 05:25:52
A lot of their interests that they that the bank gets is tax exempt in this setting. So then all of a sudden they look at us and 05:25:56
say, well, if I don't have to pay my 25% tax on my interest that I'm getting, I can give you a lower rate. It's the same risk. 05:26:03
So all it's doing for us is we're saying let U.S. tax our property. 05:26:10
And we don't want all of you to come and tell us and sit on this board and come and tell us we're going to tax your property. 05:26:14
We're going to add 15 levies on there, 15 mills. And of course for us it's like, well, we're the ones paying that. None of you 05:26:18
have to pay that. 05:26:23
The reason why we pulled out a lot of those other people in those in those documents that if we sold that is the biggest issue. 05:26:28
And if you watch all the YouTube videos you've all been sharing and and all the different things that and we agree that is an 05:26:33
issue because homeowners are coming buying units and they don't know that their property tax is 3 times what their neighbor is 05:26:38
down the street. 05:26:43
And that gets paid overtime. And so this where we said let's pull all those other people out, just tax ourselves. It's really just 05:26:48
a financing mechanism to answer your question very simply and enables us to go borrow money instead of at 8%. At 5%, there's no 05:26:55
way under any circumstance that the city or other residents in the city can be responsible for our pit. 05:27:01
If we just default day one and don't paint anything, there's absolutely nothing. And Jamie, you can correct, You can answer that 05:27:08
for me. There's actually enough. It's a special service district. It's different. If we went and did that and formed that with the 05:27:13
city and we stopped making the payment, the city is also on the hook for that. So we're trying to find a vehicle. It's unique. 05:27:18
But by pulling out all these other people and there's no one else in in in the city that could, this could ever come back on. 05:27:24
It seems like it's a win for all because we're paying less interest, we're putting in better parks, we're putting in other things 05:27:32
and we're saying no. 05:27:35
You know, we're not going to do this Then, you know, we have to pay more money in interest and that just takes away from the money 05:27:39
that will get invested in the project that we're all better off having. 05:27:43
And and and I I would just say like I think that's a really great summary. I would also add you know at a state level, I mean if 05:27:53
you read the pig statute and the legislative intent and this is this is the reason why they formed the. 05:28:00
Was to be able to create better financing. 05:28:07
Mechanisms for infrastructure. 05:28:10
So that's the whole reason they did. 05:28:12
There's some, there's some drawbacks that we've talked about several times. 05:28:15
We eliminated those drawbacks from this so that we isolated. 05:28:19
Both the risk and the repayment source so that we just isolated it literally to us and. 05:28:23
So anyway, that's that's why they made bids to begin. 05:28:32
Jeff Thompson, resident. 05:28:40
That's really cool and I love to hear that kind of stuff. Does the council have to vote on this tonight when we when we had it for 05:28:44
24 hours? 05:28:48
Do you do you guys need an answer? Do you guys have to have an answer tonight? That's the question. 05:28:53
I'll I'll second his if anybody else wants to. 05:29:03
Roll Call it Ryan. Hold. 05:29:06
I I I think that sounds really nice and I appreciate the comments and I think there's a lot of validity to it. 05:29:10
My concern is. 05:29:18
Are we building out ahead of the economy? Do we have to build all of Utah City at the same time and have all this money right now? 05:29:20
Because when a normal developer normal. 05:29:25
I'm sure. I'm sure you're normal too, OK? 05:29:31
A lot of projects are built in phases. 05:29:35
And the reasons they're built in phases is because you sell the first phase and then you can afford the second phase and because 05:29:37
the economy moves with it, the phase complete or the last phase takes a little bit longer because the economy is not there. 05:29:43
So I question whether or not we have to have it and then second. 05:29:49
My second. 05:29:55
It's really nice to say, hey, it's a it's tax money that we're going to get that we're going to pay her back. 05:29:56
But that is such a false narrative because that money is passed on to the renters. 05:30:00
Is passed on to the grocery store buyers. It's passed on to us in our gas stations. 05:30:06
We are the. 05:30:12
We're going to be frequenting this, this area, this neighborhood. 05:30:14
We will be paying an increase because they have to maintain their MAR. 05:30:17
Because they have a business. 05:30:21
And the small business owner that we want to get in the corner shop cafe for the coffee shop. 05:30:23
They're gonna have to pay higher taxes. 05:30:27
And they're going to pass those on, but they're not going to and you guys will bring. 05:30:29
But they're not going to say, hey, we're going to eat our margin because. 05:30:33
We're good people. The coffee shop guy isn't going to. 05:30:36
I'm gonna, I'm gonna make $0.25 less per cup for the rest of my life because, you know, I'm a good person. I'm not gonna charge it 05:30:39
on. So I think that's a false narrative. 05:30:43
And it feels good to say we're going to pay it back, but ultimately the consumers are going to pay it back in our cost. 05:30:48
So just really quickly what what Nate said is exactly right, which is? 05:30:55
The PID infrastructure, the Public Infrastructure Districts were specifically created. 05:31:00
To reduce the cost of infrastructure without the P. 05:31:05
All of those end users would be paying more. 05:31:09
So it's it's actually exactly opposite of what he just said. 05:31:12
Because the development costs would be more than if you had a public infrastructure district. So this additional tax rate that's 05:31:16
going to be on the property. 05:31:21
I mean the the market is what the market is. You're not able to charge more for a two-bedroom apartment because your tax rate is 05:31:26
higher. You're not able to charge more for a cup of coffee because you pay more property. 05:31:32
On the, on the flip side of that, we can put in better infrastructure and more quickly. 05:31:38
If we have lower financing for infrastructure costs. 05:31:44
So I understand the confusion, but. 05:31:47
The PID creation is really to lower all of those costs and do exactly the opposite of that. 05:31:53
Hi, David Luray resident. 05:32:03
I want to say I really appreciate the discussion we've had here. I've learned a lot. I've been studying for the last week. 05:32:06
In the sense that since we first learned about this and trying to learn as much I could about this and I. 05:32:13
I think I'm a reasonably smart guy, but. 05:32:19
I still have questions. I haven't worked all the way out and I I think this is, I think it sounds good right now. I mean, I like 05:32:23
what I'm hearing. I like that I'm. 05:32:27
I'm also hearing some things I I'm not I'm a little concerned about. 05:32:32
You know I, I for example I I'm not sure are we ever will a developer ever be or ever be selling off any portions of this and if 05:32:36
they do they they'll sell the tenant you know the pit tax with it and so that'll go on to others. So I understand they own all 05:32:42
right now but I I don't know there's a. 05:32:48
There's a hospital, for example. Will they lease that land? Will they be buying it? 05:32:54
And that the tax will apply to them if they do. 05:33:00
Well, is that the problem? Is that right? 05:33:04
OK. So that's fine, that's. 05:33:09
Now how about how about the big box store on the other side, the big box warehouse store you're talking about there, there there 05:33:11
are for profit group. 05:33:15
Will they pass PAN? If they will, they want to lease the land from you for the rest of their lives? Are they going to buy it? 05:33:19
Do you have other questions? We can answer them all when you're done. OK, well, those so there's there's that sort of. 05:33:27
Anyway, there's those kinds of questions and so. 05:33:33
Is it? Do they stay the land owners the whole time? 05:33:36
Or is that living pass on other people and if so will should they have representation on that board? 05:33:40
So as we move down the line, you know, should that board's composition change to include people who are now land owners? 05:33:47
So it's a. 05:33:55
Also. 05:33:58
If they If they overestimate what the mill levy is, and so forth. And they. 05:34:00
Having overtaxed folks and so that they're paid back in 20 years. 05:34:06
Is the next five years just profit? 05:34:11
You know, if they're still off other people, is that how does that work? I realize they're taxing themselves for a good portion of 05:34:13
it, but if they're sold, if, if they're selling off part of it, then that's someone else paying that tax. 05:34:18
So I'm just curious. There's still some questions I have. 05:34:24
But you know, there's some good ideas here, and I like the idea that it sequesters, you know, the majority of the cost. 05:34:27
For it, that put the infrastructure into that part of the city where that's going in. That's the cool idea. 05:34:34
I like the idea that that it gets them better of, you know, better interest rates that's that's that's a good idea. 05:34:40
There's lots of things that are good about this. 05:34:47
One of the things I am concerned about though, is that we just haven't had enough time. 05:34:51
To digest. 05:34:55
I mean, there's lots to learn. We're still learning lots. 05:34:57
And maybe this is the right thing to do. 05:35:01
I don't know enough yet. I don't feel confident enough in what I've learned so far. 05:35:04
To think that I can make a decision. 05:35:08
I'm I'm sure you made me feel the same way. 05:35:11
So at the end of the day. 05:35:15
I recall the a couple of years ago we had a long drawn out process. 05:35:18
On the whole way farms develop. 05:35:22
Well, for months it seems like. 05:35:25
And at the end of the day, that decision was made by an incoming council. Finally. 05:35:28
And but after lots of meetings, the developer held. 05:35:36
Individual education meetings with lots of people and. 05:35:40
And we pretty well understood it by the time the decision was made. I think we all understood it pretty well. 05:35:43
And I'm wondering if maybe it's a process like that wouldn't be better for us? 05:35:48
As residents and vineyards, so we would at least feel like we understand what's going on. 05:35:53
I mean, I I say. I think it has some good possibilities. 05:35:58
Well, I'm just not fully comfortable yet. 05:36:02
So those are my comments. Thank you. 05:36:07
Macquarie, I'm trying to be quick. So 222 bigger issues that he's kind of getting. 05:36:12
What happens if we sold to a big box user other commercial? 05:36:18
The big difference that we're trying to make in this is that commercial users that we're dealing with. 05:36:22
Value property based on net income. 05:36:27
If we, if we did sell to a large commercial user and they want to be on the Advisory Board because they feel like they need that, 05:37:00
then we've been in order to close that deal with that commercial user, we're going to have to go to council and have and add them 05:37:04
to our Advisory Board at that time. So it would go back to council. 05:37:09
Yeah, yeah. And that's a common request. And so, and it's that's true with HOA is like anytime you work with any of these big box 05:37:14
users, they'll go through all of the governance of any land use there and they're gonna want to make sure they understand. 05:37:21
Everything. Then they're on the boards, the HOA is there on the boards of any CAN associations and of course they're going to want 05:37:27
a large user like that is going to want to be on the have some type of say over that, over that TDP ID and then lastly. 05:37:33
The Pids, there is no extra profit. We only can borrow for public, actual public infrastructure costs. That's it. There's no 05:37:40
extra. Once those bonds are repaid, that was the exact cost of that public infrastructure. The levy goes away. So it's just purely 05:37:46
the cost of that public infrastructure. There's no extra tax. There's nothing else we can do tax wise other than repaying the 05:37:52
bonds associated with just the cost of that public infrastructure. 05:37:57
I think those were your questions. 05:38:04
Hey, it's me again. I just am still waiting for that answer. My name is Jeff. 05:38:10
We'll go ahead and get to it, but. 05:38:16
I wrote your. The question is do you guys need an answer tonight? 05:38:20
Yeah. I think for us the timing of this is really the uncertainty in the interest rate market and I don't know how close. 05:38:28
We track that like every about 8 minutes in our office because that's what moves the needle whether someone can buy a house or 05:38:35
not. And so I think we're rates where they are. We have $20 million of infrastructure already in downtown. 05:38:41
And we're about to break ground on $25 million of the park. So all we're trying to do here is borrow money for cheaper. 05:38:47
To put in the public infrastructure, like Max said, it's not we're not going out of borrowing of 1 1/2 billion dollars. The only 05:38:56
way it will only ever borrow 1 1/2 billion dollars is if we end up building 1 1/2 billion dollars of public infrastructure. 05:39:02
Yeah. Yeah. For us, I mean, well, unless somebody wants to guarantee that the interest rates not going to go up. 05:39:09
I know it went down today. So I mean that that that could be an alternative. OK, hold on, hold on. Comments have to go into the 05:39:15
microphone. I I'm sorry, I know this has been that conversations have to go into the microphone. Sherry K Miller resident. 05:39:22
I'm sorry. So you're next? 05:39:34
Sorry. 05:39:39
Sorry. 05:39:42
So there were a lot of people who Sergeant Miller, resident, there were a lot of people who had to leave because I've got to work 05:39:44
at 6:00, they've got things going and they basically said. 05:39:49
Please, please ask if we can. 05:39:55
Go learn for ourselves. 05:39:59
People. 05:40:02
And this? 05:40:04
You know, it's a big issue and it's almost midnight and we haven't gone to the other half of it. All I'm asking is can we give the 05:40:06
people that came today and other people who want to come because of. 05:40:12
Christmas another thing can we? I respect. I mean, whatever interest rates, but. 05:40:18
If we're for the. 05:40:24
By the people, whatever can we can we please give? 05:40:26
More people. 05:40:32
I'm so tired. Sorry. 05:40:34
If we can give more people an opportunity to learn about it, it would. It would. 05:40:37
The volumes to the trust level that we have and what's happening? 05:40:42
What up, Council? Yeah, jump up here. Anybody. Really quick. Clayton Creek resident. Listen, this point is going to sound very 05:40:51
moot now because, you know, that was a very long line. Woodbury Corporation. Fine and dandy, whatever. I have to be very careful. 05:40:56
I work within a rental property of the Woodbury Corporation. 05:41:01
I'm not going to tell you which one. No. Yeah, right. No, honestly. And and that's so funny and dandy and I'm sure they have some 05:41:07
really great points. 05:41:11
And it sounds really flashy, but I think we all know that if it sounds really too good to be true, that it might be. 05:41:14
And if we can't all sit here and exactly and 100% honestly know every single aspect of this for the next 25 years? 05:41:21
I think a couple of days or a couple of weeks isn't a big ***. I don't even think for them either. I mean, sorry, on the interest 05:41:29
rate. 05:41:32
Oh, well, right. It's not my problem. I'm looking for my future. I'm looking for the future of this residence and giving that much 05:41:35
to a corporation. 05:41:39
For however, long doesn't seem that smart. 05:41:43
I mean, I know a lot of people are struggling with HOA as it is right now. I'm on the Advisory Board for the Master HOA for 05:41:46
Water's Edge. 05:41:50
And the biggest thing? There's two things, right? Every cares about parking and everybody cries about when declaring control is 05:41:53
going to change, right? 05:41:57
So the idea that we would just give something away like this and not really fully understand it, I think we did that once already. 05:42:00
And I think we're kind of reaping what we've seen a little bit. So let's just take some time and if it's a great idea today, it's 05:42:05
a great idea January 1st. 05:42:09
Thanks. 05:42:14
I I do like your comment about how I want. I'm responding to his. We're going back and forth with people in the middle. 05:42:18
I do like his comment where he says that, you know, we came to every meeting and we feel we've checked every box of vineyard. 05:42:27
But I I I want to push back on that. 05:42:34
Early on in my career, I was involved in developing and getting public purchase to helping set forth best practices in government 05:42:37
practices. 05:42:42
And these used to be in paper format. You go out to RFP and you'd have to go out through and do that and we had to put them into 05:42:48
electronic platform. 05:42:53
And design what is the best case scenario to? 05:42:58
To create an ethical environment and process and as we put that out to the 36,000 cities. 05:43:02
You realize that every city. 05:43:08
Ethical processes in place. 05:43:11
And one of the things that me and Sarah ran on is the gamesmanship that has existed that that maybe it because my dad or grandpa 05:43:14
or whoever, whatever we haven't put in. 05:43:20
Practices. So I don't I don't fault you guys actually. 05:43:26
It's like, for example, right now we're holding a meeting in December. State law says we don't do any, like emergency meetings. 05:43:29
And I know everyone's angry that we have the ability to do this in December. So one of the first things we want to come in is 05:43:34
saying. 05:43:38
Citizenry, we will set forth our agenda in January and it will never change so that we have the time to be able to go through and 05:43:42
do that second. 05:43:47
24 hour notice that you know, I looked real quickly on Provo, Spanish Fork and others. They have posted their agenda for January 05:43:51
14th and 16th already a month out that get and so. I'm not saying the gamesmanship is on purpose, but it's perceived. 05:44:00
And it's hurtful and it impacts and so it's not an attack on you guys or them, but it's it's the processes that have been in place 05:44:09
feel like we're. 05:44:14
Like there isn't enough betting on things and. 05:44:19
I just want to. 05:44:24
I want to have a good relationship, Sarah and I do. 05:44:26
I do not feel like this. 05:44:31
With 24 hours, I don't know if it's gamesmanship or if it's just, hey, this is where we are and there's not malintent. 05:44:33
What I do? 05:44:41
Is that the? 05:44:43
As I kept going, we will look at the process, we will slow the process, we will not gain, we will not move it and we will set up. 05:44:47
Because you are a part of our. 05:44:56
The citizens are the leaders of this. 05:45:00
And and if it's not, if we really do, vote this through. 05:45:03
Obviously the constituency that me and Sarah represent are going to be very. 05:45:07
You know it's going to be there, it's just not on the right foot. 05:45:11
And so it comes back to are we going to play *** for tat and? 05:45:15
And and and I would say this to Flake and to Christie, like you guys want me to. 05:45:19
Believe in your vision of downtown. 05:45:26
And I think I as I met with them last, you know. 05:45:28
I started to open that kind of thing, OK, and I don't want to kill. 05:45:32
What you guys have worked for for? 05:45:37
You know, the past eight years and respecting that right of saying, OK, you did put a lot of time into that. 05:45:39
And so there is this transition of power and authority and. 05:45:47
If it is, hey, let's just let's just rush it. 05:45:52
You know, that's how I kind of felt with like on the four to one vote today. It's like, hey guys, I still have to have the same 05:45:57
authority that you're given as a council. Let's not change that. And that's why. But I don't want that action to affect my 05:46:01
relationship with them. I want to separate those. 05:46:06
It's the same thing with Eric and I'm going to have to deal with Eric and I don't want to do that with them either. And that's 05:46:11
hard to juggle because there's a path. 05:46:15
Right. And so I want to give them their day in court. 05:46:20
But I also don't want you guys to go, look, we're going to forward pastor there because I need to. I just don't feel good about 05:46:23
that. So hopefully I've described that because these guys deserve their day in court. But if we're gonna go through and do it 05:46:28
again and give them 1.5 billion in bonding tonight. 05:46:33
It's like. 05:46:39
You know, it just sets it off in a bad foot. All right, I have to close. Public comment. Looks like there's two more people 05:46:41
online. Why don't you make your comments and then public comment is closed. 05:46:46
And if it was already said, please don't repeat it. 05:46:53
I just have a question. So I've heard all night about codes and processes. So does this pit allow you guys a carte blanche to do 05:46:57
whatever you want, density and parking? Like how do we know? 05:47:04
That that there's certain codes and things that will be there's no land use authorities granted with the PET they they can only 05:47:11
use. There is no land use authority granted with the pit. 05:47:17
It's it relates to taxing financing. 05:47:23
And the construction of infrastructure. 05:47:27
Yeah. And the infrastructure is bounded. 05:47:30
By the categories in the governing document. 05:47:33
And they have to be built to city standards. 05:47:36
OK, last comment. 05:47:40
Jeffrey Wixom. 05:47:43
What do we, as a city, give? 05:47:46
By granting. 05:47:49
That's what I want. 05:47:52
Do you guys want to take it? 05:47:55
I'll answer it in terms of the funding and financing options available to the city. 05:47:57
It doesn't change that at all. 05:48:03
It creates a. 05:48:05
Government entity. It requires city approval to create that entity, but once it's created, it's a separate government entity. It 05:48:09
is not the city. 05:48:13
Does the city still tax that area? Do we get tax revenue? 05:48:18
It's a tax imposed on the property within that area. 05:48:23
It doesn't go beyond the boundary of what was in the presentation and what's in and what's in the governing document. 05:48:28
The tax. 05:48:35
Can only be generated and. 05:48:37
To pay for the infrastructure within that area. 05:48:40
So the city never, the city never sees that tax revenue. It's not on the cities books ever. 05:48:43
What the city, what the city sees is. 05:48:50
Infrastructure assets. So they build a road. They dedicate the road to the city. 05:48:54
Once the city verifies the the road was built to city standards and Jamie, I'm sorry to interrupt you but I think what he was 05:48:59
asking is does a pit affect the underlying ad valorem tax that's pre-existing and the answer is no, so that the city it doesn't 05:49:05
change at all. 05:49:10
If the city was getting. 05:49:16
$10,000 a year from a building. It will continue to get $10,000 a year from that building. It's just that now we're saying we're 05:49:18
going to tax that building at 10,100. 05:49:24
And that one extra $100 is going to finance the infrastructure for the. 05:49:30
That. 05:49:36
All right, I need a Mustang to go out of a public hearing. 05:49:38
Thank you, Ties. Second, second by Amber, all in favor. OK, questions from the council. 05:49:41
As I'm looking over the questions that we had from the public. 05:49:58
Looks like a major. 05:50:03
Were responded. 05:50:06
There were a couple. 05:50:08
Commentary on due government process that I just wanted to address. 05:50:11
This has been worked on for some time, but as far as due government process, Jamie, we're following all of the processes that 05:50:16
we're supposed to follow. 05:50:20
So I just wanted to highlight. 05:50:25
That and. 05:50:27
Council, if you don't have any questions, I. 05:50:29
I need an action of some sort. I just have one question. 05:50:32
I I'm going to just read this, it was a question or a statement. 05:50:40
A pig did initially build the infrastructure using the pit as a financing tool, but what protections? 05:50:45
Would be in place to prevent future taxing finding and or bonding for any future infrastructure on the same site. I didn't really 05:50:51
understand it. The question did anyone else? Did you understand it? Yeah. So I I think the question is if you if you have appeared 05:50:56
on a site and you. 05:51:02
You've gone for infrastructure. What's to stop that from happening again? 05:51:09
So I think Jamie can correct me if I'm wrong, but statutorily there's a maximum mill rate. 05:51:13
That can be levied on any property as a part of the pit. 05:51:19
And then and then the statement appeared is a different is different from a special district like water or sewer or school 05:51:25
district. These are tied to a local district and the local district AKA cities have oversight on those special districts. PEDs 05:51:30
aren't tied to the local district once the permission is given. 05:51:36
So technically, that's true. 05:51:42
So and the reason why those other special districts need to be tied to? 05:51:44
That governmental oversight and representation. 05:51:51
Is because that's a general tax on everybody in that area and it's a property tax that doesn't go away. 05:51:56
In the case of a PID. 05:52:02
In the case of the pit that we're that we have proposed in the governing documents that we have in the in that formation. 05:52:04
There there is no non represented. 05:52:11
Taxed ENT. 05:52:14
So there there is nobody inside of our pit boundaries. 05:52:16
That is being. 05:52:20
That's not. 05:52:22
And there's nobody outside of the pill boundaries that's being taxed by the pit. 05:52:24
You have to come to the microphone, but we're done. Can you repeat this question? But then we're done with public comment. I 05:52:33
apologize. So the the, the question was doesn't that just guarantee that it'll always be rentals? And the answer is no. What it 05:52:38
guarantees is that when there are homes sold, so for example, we have townhomes that we're designing right now that we anticipate 05:52:44
will be for sale. 05:52:50
Those for sale townhomes will not be subject to a tax levy in the pit. They'll pay their ordinary property tax, just like 05:52:57
everybody else in the city will. And those property taxes. 05:53:02
Be treated just like every other property. 05:53:10
But they won't pay the PID the additional PID mill levy. 05:53:12
So hear me out. Yeah, Are we? I guess this is Council Menu. Are we doing another meeting? 05:53:18
This we're doing one at the end of the month. Is that what it is, the 27th or something? 05:53:26
I don't. I don't have a problem waiting another two weeks. I know you guys want to do it sooner than later with with the interest 05:53:34
rate. 05:53:38
I I would like to move. I make a motion to push this to our next council meeting. So you're you're looking at me for a response. 05:53:44
He doesn't need it, but why don't you ask us? Because. 05:53:53
You know, I mean go ahead. I mean it's midnight and I I do best not making decisions. So I guess I would go, I guess I would go 05:53:56
one step further. 05:54:00
We would be happy to have some kind of a meeting between now and the 27th. 05:54:05
Where we could have, we could talk about not a public meeting. 05:54:11
A meeting. Not not a city meeting. A meeting where we could talk about kids and Educ. 05:54:15
Whoever would like to come? 05:54:22
About the Pids and answer any questions that they have about the governing documents that would be. 05:54:24
Part of what we're proposing, that would be very nice. OK, Council, can you agree to that? Do you mind if we push it to the next 05:54:29
meeting and we go ahead and hold that? 05:54:33
No. OK, great. I need a. 05:54:38
I moved to push. 05:54:40
So it would be a motion to continue. 05:54:43
Resolution 2023 Dash 58. 05:54:46
Will we also do 59? 05:54:51
I moved. 05:54:54
I'm sorry, I'm doing what you're doing. I'm going to continue. 05:54:56
Resolution 2023 Dash 58. 05:55:03
To our next meeting or to a future To December 27th, all right. 05:55:06
Can I see your gender first? 05:55:14
OK, first by Marty, second by Amber. All in favor, aye? 05:55:18
OK, great. Honestly, it'll be on Zoom, right? Because I'll be out of town. I'll be jumping in. All right, we're going to go ahead 05:55:24
and open the next public hearing. 05:55:30
No, we're not. We're going to open the next public hearing. This is the West District, the creation of the public Infrastructure 05:55:36
district. 05:55:40
Do you have any questions that are different from the next one? Also, everybody is limited to one comment. 05:55:44
And we got to close this soon, so. 05:55:50
Just had another public notes on hearing another public notice question if an agenda item. 05:55:54
Notice to be on December 13th and it goes to December 14th. Can we just table it and not have to deal with all this? 05:56:00
It's the same thing, so on on this one. So for I think for everyone's sake and your sake concluded. 05:56:08
Can we skip the public comment and let's just go home? 05:56:14
I can still hold this meeting. 05:56:18
You can and and the public hearing was noticed for today. OK, so I was a joke. I'm just giving you a hard time about the whole 05:56:20
13th and 14th. Just want to make sure we're doing due process. But I am wondering and you guys can raise your hand if you agree 05:56:25
there's not going to be any different comments, right. There's not going to be a that's okay. I think I understand it. I think 05:56:30
that. 05:56:35
It would be best for us to just get through this so that we can have. 05:56:41
That we can move on to the next. 05:56:46
That's right. I mean, I don't see the difference. I'm just saying table until the 27th like the last one. 05:56:48
OK, they they need to go. I mean, I don't really care because I'm going home, to be honest. But I'm just saying it's the same 05:56:54
exact thing. So they're not going to be any different discussion. 05:56:58
So Mayor, if you'd like where where he's asking a procedural question, you can ask that he'd make. 05:57:05
A comment relevant to the public. 05:57:12
And then the council can proceed with this. Thank you for your comment. 05:57:14
That is my comment, All right. Any other, I don't think we're going to do it. It sounds like the consensus is we're going to keep 05:57:19
holding the public hearing. 05:57:23
It's more about the port. 05:57:30
If the port would have been approved earlier. 05:57:31
Would that change this agenda item? 05:57:34
I have no idea because we, yeah, we were just doing an exploratory visit with them. So we learned a lot about the port today, but 05:57:37
we have to hold a public hearing if you offer them to come into your study. So that's why we did it. But that's a question for 05:57:42
another day, another. 05:57:47
Another month, alright. 05:57:53
Any other public comments for this particular item? 05:57:55
That's OK. Go for it. 05:57:59
Jenny Riley, resident, So. 05:58:01
I have two comments. First of all, if this process has been our public due process, then the process needs to change. 05:58:05
Because they we need more, we need more time, it seems like. 05:58:15
Something is being just slipped under the rug, slipped under the door in a short amount of time. 05:58:21
So maybe even your needs to look at the process of which things need to be notified and given us that time. I know there's 05:58:27
something that says it has to be posted for 24 hours within a certain amount of time, but then why does why is it taken off? 05:58:35
If it's on, it needs to stay on for the whole time until. 05:58:44
The issue is talked about in the Council. That seems a little tricky to me, that something was put on and then taken off. 05:58:49
That's not that same thing. But typically the mayor is pretty good about letting people still talk. But I guess it's a typically 05:58:57
you never know. And then the other one is, are you referring to like a public hearing on the agenda? 05:59:04
There was there was there. It was. It was posted that it was on and the documents were there. And then the documents were taken 05:59:13
off and it was still on the agenda. I don't know what documents you're referring to. Is that what you were talking about, Heidi, 05:59:17
the other day they said that the documents were still online. 05:59:22
They they double checked when they they someone told them about that notification, but it was still there. Our recorder was able 05:59:28
to locate it. But I like what you're saying. Is it tricky to find? Is it not open? Is it not tricky to find? So that was just my 05:59:34
one thing and that was one thing. The other one is, is that. 05:59:40
If this is due process, like you said when you ask the attorney if this was due process if there's just that short amount of time 05:59:49
before. 05:59:53
That just seems a little, you know, I would say this and maybe this will answer your question. I think we follow state statute. We 05:59:58
do the best we can and we worked on this a really, really long time. And I mean this has been discussed for like a year in deep 06:00:05
detail. But I would say that for the public maybe what you're asking is that you know we're following state statute we could. 06:00:13
Hold some, what are they called work sessions or things like that and maybe that's that'll be the greatest benefit during this two 06:00:21
weeks where we'll hold it or we'll have the developers hold it for you and and we can answer any questions during that time. I I 06:00:27
think that's great. I'm glad we made that motion. So good comment. Yeah, so just. 06:00:33
Just to put it, put it out there, I'm a longtime resident of Vineyard. My father was on the first council that created Vineyard. 06:00:40
And the reason why Vineyard was created was to help to need a steel plant stay. 06:00:48
Alive and keep the taxes to keep them from being Orem high taxes. 06:00:53
So that they could even stay in existence. And so I understand the situation with taxes. 06:01:01
I totally get it, but that process that even though it had to be done within a certain time. 06:01:07
It didn't happen. 06:01:14
I mean that it was deliberated and talked about all the documents that had to take that had to be signed to incorporate Vineyard 06:01:16
in the beginning. 06:01:20
That even though Geneva steel plant needed that done quickly because of tax reason, it was still every. 06:01:25
Every T was crossed, every dot. 06:01:35
I was dotted and it. 06:01:38
Very specific. 06:01:40
I like the idea of having a governing body. 06:01:43
My concern with with this is this that you keep saying. 06:01:47
That they are owning the taxes. 06:01:52
But how much tax base does Vineyard need in order to stay alive so? 06:01:55
We don't say we can't exist anymore. We can't keep drawing on that. I know we have the RDA for a reason. 06:02:01
It needs to be used for the original reason of why we got the RDA, but if it is, if you can't, if you can't, ever. 06:02:10
Gathering Vine. 06:02:19
And be level and not go into the red, then we have a problem. Yeah. And I think, I think we do stay in the scope of, I mean I know 06:02:22
we stay in the scope of the RDA constraints. So we're fulfilling the obligations properly. 06:02:29
But if if we have to keep drying up, the ardiene needs to be used, obviously, like you said for what it needs to be used for. But 06:02:37
if we have. 06:02:41
What is keeping vineyards from using the RDA to do something like this or to do other things? 06:02:46
That are going to help build that tax base because if we do this kid. 06:02:55
And they pay the taxes. 06:03:01
And Vineyard. 06:03:03
Itself isn't getting any taxes. It takes away our ability to get those taxes. Am I understanding that right? That's the part that 06:03:05
I kept getting confused to. It's a lot. But they that pit area is a higher tax area and that's all. That higher tax is the only 06:03:12
benefit that the pig brings, right? So there's no real benefit to the town. 06:03:20
Well, the benefit to the town is there's an infrastructure in the future, but not right now. It takes away the ability that's 06:03:28
that's a tax base. 06:03:32
No. 06:03:36
Well, it it develops our city, right and. 06:03:39
If we tax ourselves and we do this, they talked about the opportunities that they have to be able to provide those. 06:04:12
Infrastructure needs to the city faster. 06:04:19
So, So what happens to the taxes during that 25 years? 06:04:22
Just vineyard get anything out of it but from the taxes. 06:04:26
And raises the property level. 06:04:37
You get that increase on that. 06:04:39
They're applying another level. 06:04:42
On top of that, thank you that they. 06:04:45
Yeah. It's like the state or the county. Everybody requires us to pay $5 and they're saying we'll pay 3 extra dollars if we can 06:04:49
take this and pay for infrastructure. And we always have control of what we do with the $5. Yeah, that sounds great. I I, I. 06:04:55
There is. I I would, I think it sounds great. I just worry that it's just so quick. And yeah, I like the idea of the town hall. I 06:05:03
think it's a great idea. So thank you. Thank you. 06:05:10
Hi, Elizabeth Holdaway been your president? 06:05:18
It's hard to say. People care about different issues and while somebody could average it, I, I don't know, 3 to 50. I mean this. 06:05:50
Is this more than normal? It just depends on what the issue is like. You're talking about a specific. 06:05:56
I don't know. I don't know. OK, Well, Marty, Marty shaking her head. 06:06:03
Marty can put on record for it. OK, well, none of us went outside and looked at how many people there was. People sitting on the 06:06:08
stairs watching the Facebook Live, because that's the only way they could watch it, right? 06:06:13
So thank you for listening to us and at least pausing. But I do. I do think we have concerns where? 06:06:18
We just want to know. 06:06:24
It doesn't feel good when somebody's crammed down your throat and when you get 199 page document right? Did anybody actually read 06:06:27
through the all of them? 06:06:31
OK, Tom, I did it. So I started getting confused, 'cause there's a lot of legal stuff, legalese in there, right? So. 06:06:36
We appreciate the time that we're just asking for time. OK, well, this is what I can offer the rest of the crowd for anybody that 06:06:43
says they wanted to be paused. 06:06:47
Before before you go into that, I just want to get my other thing out there. 06:07:22
Want to comment on Nate's, you know, statement about the timing like it does. We do appreciate more time, but a lot of families 06:07:26
are travelling the next two weeks. 06:07:31
And they mentioned earlier there's a lot of contention in the room and that contention is born out of distrust. 06:07:36
And the ability for us to have an open, honest conversation. We need more time than just over Christmas when we're all traveling, 06:07:42
we're hosting our families, and we're focused on our children. 06:07:47
And that might present a risk to you because you might have new voters on the council in a couple weeks. I understand that risk, 06:07:52
but if you want to earn our trust. 06:07:57
That's what we would ask you. 06:08:01
Any other comments on the kids specifically not on timing? 06:08:04
Oh, wait, wait, quick question. Did you want to go ahead and clarify the difference? I apologize. I'm happy to wait if he has 06:08:10
other questions. 06:08:15
After that, there are two differences the property it applies to. 06:08:19
Right. And you saw the footprint for the two? 06:08:23
Different pit areas and then the other difference is the. 06:08:26
Ceiling. It's a billion on one, it's 500 million on the other. 06:08:30
East is the larger. No West is the larger, E is the small. 06:08:35
I know this might not be true, it could be be perceived, but your comment, Mayor, about that you've known about this pit for a 06:08:42
year? 06:08:47
Though you have authority as a mayor. 06:08:53
You're given and you said, hey, we followed state procedure, right? The state sets forth a bare minimum. It's actually a really 06:08:57
quite low standard. 06:09:02
And I give my citizens 24 hours. That's the perceived and it whether you want it or not. 06:09:40
And second thing, I'll be in South America in two weeks. 06:09:48
So I won't I I leave on Monday, so that's my problem. Is like and and also again disabled people that speak other languages 06:09:51
because we need to be all inclusive. 06:09:57
Like going between Christmas and New Year's? Like why is it not just January 5th or 6th or 14th or something like? 06:10:03
Is there any other question about the? 06:10:10
OK. I'm going to go ahead and ask for a comment. I mean a motion to close the public comment, so. 06:10:14
Thank you, Marty. Second by ties, all in favor, all right. Would anybody like to make a motion to move this to the next meeting? 06:10:20
Yeah, I moved time high motion. 06:10:29
To continue resolution 2023 Dash 59. 06:10:33
To December 20 sevent. 06:10:38
OK. And then can I get a second? 06:10:41
Second, all in favor, aye. All right, this discussion 9.10. I'm asking if we can move the discussion to. 06:10:45
The next meeting, since we're going to be there, so move, OK And can I get a second? 06:10:53
All in favor. 06:10:59
All right. 06:11:02
Heidi, tell me when you're ready to switch over. OK? Thank you for coming to City Council. 06:11:03
Didn't listen to a song. 06:11:08
You have to have on the 27th. After what we talked about, it is our next meeting. That's why they made the motion to go to the 06:11:10
next meeting. 06:11:14
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It is Wednesday, December 13th. The time is 6:00 PM. I'm going to go ahead and call our Vineyard City Council session to order. I 00:00:00
am going to ask. 00:00:05
If Ties will read this in the Pledge of Allegiance and an invocation, all right. 00:00:12
Please stand. 00:00:18
I pledge allegiance to the flag. 00:00:22
Thank you. 00:00:35
The most gracious Father in Heaven would give you thanks for this day. 00:00:37
We're thankful for this fine land that we live in, for the freedom that we have. We ask that blessing to be upon those who protect 00:00:47
us. 00:00:50
Our fire. Our police. 00:00:54
Soldiers, theremen, whoever they may be. 00:00:57
We give you thanks for all the blessing that is bestowed upon us on this fine day when we say it in Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:01:00
All right. We're going to go ahead and start with our. 00:01:07
Canvassing of our municipal 2023 election results and Pamela Spencer, our recorder, is going to. 00:01:13
Present the results of the election. 00:01:20
Well, there we go. Swears that off. Sorry. OK, we finally got them. 00:01:28
Few minutes ago. 00:01:37
I'm going to read the statistics that are up there. 00:01:39
So, so some of the things we have to include in the report for the Board of Canvassers. 00:01:58
Is the voter turn out? 00:02:04
And so, so bear with me as this is I just received this information, so we had 28.5% voter turn out. 00:02:07
Over from 6000 plus registered voters. That's that's how many actually returned their ballots. 00:02:17
So. 00:02:24
Number of counted ballots with 1779 number of. 00:02:27
In person ballots, those are in the mailbox or in their Dropbox that they have. In person were 16. 00:02:33
Nine that returned electronically from those that are overseas. 00:02:40
Or disabled. Number of counted ballots provisionally meaning they hadn't registered to vote yet was one. 00:02:44
So the total number of ballots counted was 1805. 00:02:52
Does the and they and the counties put this together for us and it does say that it matches? 00:02:57
Their account given the vote. 00:03:02
So then the next piece is any if there were any challenged or uncounted ballots and the statistics for those. 00:03:05
The number of the envelopes with signatures that did not match the voters signature was 34. 00:03:13
And just a brief explanation on. 00:03:20
A lot of times that somebody signing the wrong envelope. 00:03:23
So. So their name isn't on that envelope and that's and but they do send those back and and try to gather at the signatures from 00:03:27
from them. Number of unsigned envelopes was five. Same thing with that they will reach out to those voters and ask them to return 00:03:33
the signature. 00:03:40
Total number of ballots that were. 00:03:47
Meaning there was something wrong with the ballot extra pen mark or something that got kicked out. And so they have to what they 00:03:50
did cure them and and look at them and correct them and that. 00:03:57
3921 of those they were not able to use at all. 00:04:05
So it says 53.8% of curable ballots that were not cured. Total number of ballots. 00:04:09
Where the voters submitted a disability affidavit, there weren't David. There weren't. 00:04:17
So for the next section, rejected ballot statistics that could not. Those are the ones that cannot be cured, which is what I just 00:04:22
explained The number of those ballots is. 00:04:27
Were returned after the postmark date. 00:04:33
There were seven. 00:04:36
Umm, there weren't any for non curable reasons. There were seven. So there were seven total that were not able to be be counted, 00:04:38
which is which is actually really good. 00:04:43
So that's I feel like that's really good provisional ballots statistics you you had the one ballot that they mentioned already. 00:04:48
Sorry. OK. And so that is the end. 00:04:57
Of the actual report, how we've gone. 00:05:03
Because we do this by ranked choice voting. 00:05:06
Oh, is it not going to come? 00:05:10
Hold on, I might have to drag it over. 00:05:13
And if I do that, oh wait, there it is. 00:05:16
Ha. Oh, I love culture. OK, let you guys watch these rounds that we're done. 00:05:19
At one point in time, we did have to. 00:05:25
Do a coin toss if I can say that because in one of the rounds they had a tie vote. 00:05:28
For. 00:05:34
Needed to be eliminated in that round. And so that was done and they, the county did a recount. And that's why I'm asking you to 00:05:35
certify this election tonight. There's your first seat. 00:05:41
And then the second seat. 00:05:48
And here's your second seat. So you have. 00:05:55
Jacob Holdaway and Sarah Cameron are your. 00:06:03
Newly elected? 00:06:08
Council members, and I just am requesting that you certify the election results that you just given. All right, Council, please 00:06:09
look over the results. Do you have any questions for Pam at this time? 00:06:16
OK, if not, I just need a motion. 00:06:26
Present. 00:06:29
Second First by ties, second by AM. 00:06:31
Please do a local. This is done by roll call. Amber, I, yay Marty. Yay, Christy. Excellent. As new people step forward to serve, 00:06:36
let's go ahead and give them a round of applause. 00:06:43
Thank you. 00:06:58
All right. We also have to say goodbye to people that have come before them. And I wanted to there. There are no words except it 00:06:59
was a privilege and an honor to serve with you guys. Obviously your work's not done. You're not done until you're done. But we 00:07:06
just wanted to say thank you and let you say a few words. 00:07:13
Today, so we have a few things for you. 00:07:21
There you go. You need to actually keep this right here. 00:07:28
Goodness. 00:07:38
OK. And then we have another gift. 00:07:40
Let's see. I'll talk to the microphone. 00:07:42
It takes a lot of time and dedication and a lot of love to serve in a community. It takes a lot of work and advocacy, and I 00:07:45
couldn't really think of a way to describe what that looks like or feels like. 00:07:51
Except for an hourglass. And so I want you to. I wanted to present you with this hourglass, and I thought it was really an 00:07:59
interesting thing when I thought about both of you, that a lot of your stories actually start with trees. 00:08:06
In this community. 00:08:13
And a lot of love for the community and you guys are pillars in the community and so there's little pendants inside there that 00:08:14
represent what you've given back to our community and then you also. 00:08:19
Get these plaques that talk about the time that you've been here. Anyway, we appreciate you and just another round of applause for 00:08:25
all the work and dedication. 00:08:30
All right. So I'm going to give you a little bit of time to say something at this meeting. So whoever wants to go first. 00:08:43
Ladies first. 00:08:51
I am just so grateful for the time I've had to serve this community. 00:08:55
It's been 8 years actually. 00:09:05
It's been, I don't know that I would have gotten involved in the community the way I have here if it wasn't for a Vineyard and 00:09:09
what they're doing, What we're doing here in Vineyard is so uniquely special and. 00:09:15
Tice actually was one of the first residents that helped me see the potential and vineyard because like most residents when I 00:09:23
moved here. 00:09:27
I didn't know what was what was happening in Vineyard and I moved here in 2014 when there was. 00:09:32
Probably most of you didn't even live here at that point. 00:09:38
And in my first council meeting, I went to another resident, Tice. 00:09:41
Had gotten really involved and explained to me, you know, we were very many residents at the meeting and explained to me what was 00:09:47
happening in Vineyard and. 00:09:51
I was shocked and then excited at the opportunities and I appreciate. 00:09:58
Watching Tice, you know, serve and then get involved and eventually run for council and he's done incredible things. I'm so 00:10:04
grateful to you as a friend and a mentor and. 00:10:10
A companion in this journey. 00:10:17
As well as all the council members I've served with before this and. 00:10:20
Planning commissioners over the years and our incredible staff who has taught me so much, I am so grateful for. 00:10:25
The knowledge I get to take with me of stuff that I. 00:10:36
Knew about. 00:10:40
That to me is so valuable and I just am truly grateful and staff have someone to say I've lived there before, many of the 00:10:42
residents I've lived here before. 00:10:47
Most of the staff in this room so separate Pam and Sullivan. 00:10:52
Seeing all of you guys come and serve in our community. 00:10:57
It's just. 00:11:02
One of the the best things I've ever done and. 00:11:05
I've enjoyed what we've built here together. There's nothing I enjoy better than being a member of an awesome team. 00:11:09
And the team at Vineyard is incredible. 00:11:17
I'm just so grateful for the time I've had and. 00:11:22
And to all those who serve after me. 00:11:25
And pray that you will serve. 00:11:28
Thank you. 00:11:30
You can have a great to clap for you and tell me different type. 00:11:31
I thought the hourglass was appropriate. 00:11:35
Since I'm the old man. 00:11:38
I never intended on staying for eight years. 00:11:43
I've spent a majority of my life. 00:11:48
And service. 00:11:52
And. 00:11:54
I haven't found a way to get away from it. 00:11:57
Right now I'm trying to dodge my ecclesiastical authorities. Who found I'm. 00:12:00
Retiring. 00:12:05
My wife has allocated my future time. 00:12:09
Since I have had to ignore her for most of my life. 00:12:13
I've enjoyed this immensely. 00:12:17
I came here not looking for this job. 00:12:19
I tried to not run again, and yet I was talking to running again and this time I refused to be talked into running again and I 00:12:22
didn't. 00:12:26
And I'm quite happy with the party, with what I've done. 00:12:31
I'm proud of the efforts that. 00:12:36
I am thrilled with the association I've had. 00:12:39
With my fellow Council members of this Council and the two previous councils. 00:12:42
They were all sterling individuals who served well and I appreciated their efforts and. 00:12:47
And I learned from them. 00:12:52
I've also served 2 mayors which were equally. 00:12:55
Fabulous in their efforts in their own ways. 00:12:59
I leave with things unfinished that I started, but that's normal. 00:13:05
But I'll leave it up to some of the members of the council to carry on doing the. 00:13:10
That we've begun. 00:13:16
I leave it to Flagborough to finish downtown that I said that I wanted. 00:13:18
And I. 00:13:23
But I also must know I'm just one member of five. 00:13:26
It takes a majority of the people who sit up here to make. 00:13:31
So I can't take credit for any decision. 00:13:36
And at the same time when you serve up here. 00:13:39
You have to. 00:13:42
To do that dirty word these days. And that's compromised because you can't get your way. 00:13:44
It's basically almost impossible for one person up here. 00:13:49
To demand cajole or whatever you wish to use to get your choice. 00:13:54
You have to get what you can and. 00:14:00
Either vote to support that compromise or stand your ground. 00:14:03
Vote No. 00:14:07
I had to vote no very often. 00:14:10
All the decisions of a major proportion that have been done by this council and the previous councils that I've been on. 00:14:12
Have been done by a majority. 00:14:18
And I think that's. 00:14:22
It says something about the governance of this group. 00:14:25
Local government is the most basic form of democracy. 00:14:29
I had the. 00:14:34
One of my jobs to. 00:14:36
Immigrants. 00:14:38
The American citizenship course, so they could get their citizenship. 00:14:40
And I used to hammer them hard that they had to participate. 00:14:45
Or they would live in a country much like the one they had fled. 00:14:49
Democracy is a precious thing. 00:14:54
And it's very fragile. 00:14:58
I do not say this to demean the new members. 00:15:03
But it's unfortunate that. 00:15:06
Only voted for them at 28%. 00:15:08
They des. 00:15:11
And all of. 00:15:15
Who have? 00:15:18
Should not abstain from doing this again. 00:15:20
In my 8 years of serving the average group in this room. 00:15:25
Was. 00:15:29
And that's wrong. 00:15:32
When I would vote for a budget. 00:15:34
Mary, a question was ever raised. 00:15:37
So it's rather difficult to do this job when people don't participate. 00:15:42
I hope you support the new council better than you have supported this. 00:15:48
I thank you for your. 00:15:55
And for your efforts to build this community, which I think is a fabulous community. 00:15:58
It's founded on good precepts. 00:16:04
Thank you. 00:16:08
All right. 00:16:10
Thank you so much again for your service and we welcome our new members and I. We've got a long agenda, so I'm going to pop right 00:16:21
into this. Our next thing is we're going to swear in one of our new Planning Commission members, Nathan Steele, if you would come 00:16:27
on up, I don't see Anthony Jenkins here. 00:16:32
We did a little farewell for him online, but he also has a plaque for serving on the Planning Commission for so long and touching 00:16:38
our city as well, so we'll make sure he gets that. 00:16:43
Welcome. Come on up. Follow. 00:16:49
Right. 00:16:52
I say your name. I need to feel having been appointed to the Planning Commission, have you been appointed Planning Commission? 00:16:58
That I will support. 00:17:06
That I will support Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of 00:17:11
Utah, and the Constitution of the State of Utah, and that I will discharge the duties of my office, and that I will discharge the 00:17:16
duties of my office with fidelity. 00:17:22
Congratulations. 00:17:28
Thank you so much for being here and for your willingness to serve. We really appreciate it. 00:17:35
All right. 00:17:40
Nathan, I don't know if you want to say a few words and introduce yourself to the community before I go into public comments. 00:17:45
Sure, I'll be brief. Come on. I appreciate overwhelming support of everyone coming out for me. Very generous. 00:17:51
But really, I'm just I worked for over 10 years and. 00:17:58
Urban planning, economic development and everything in between and I'm just so excited to continue doing that here in Vineyard. I 00:18:02
love this community and love this home and want to keep working to make it a wonderful home for everybody. Awesome. Thank you for 00:18:07
the opportunity. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. 00:18:12
All right. We'll go ahead and move into public comments. This is to address anything that is not currently on the agenda. If you 00:18:21
want to come up, come to the podium, state your name where you're from and then share your comment with us and also if you have a 00:18:27
similar comment to somebody before you. 00:18:33
And you agree with their comment, you may raise your hand. But to keep business moving along, please do not get up and repeat the 00:18:39
comment. Just raise your hand, all right. If you have a comment, come on up, state your name. 00:18:44
I still need you to be recorded. I'm sorry. Yeah. 00:18:52
Come on up. 00:18:58
So I'm Chris. Chris Price. We're not allowed to talk about the stuff that's on yes. And you live in Vineyard in Providence, OK. 00:19:00
Yes, at that time. You can raise your hand and ask to speak at that time. But this is about public comments to be addressed for 00:19:09
things that are not on the agenda. 00:19:13
OK. Thank. 00:19:18
Hi, David Larae, President Midard. I would like to ask that your consent item number 697 be to be discussed publicly. 00:19:21
I think there's a lot of what could be done there. OK, thank you. Would the council feel, do you want to discuss 6.7? OK, Heidi, 00:19:31
the commentary about 6.7 that we were going to read during public comment, we will now refrain and take that agenda item off. 00:19:39
OK. 00:19:48
Resident OK. 00:19:54
Just want to start off with something positive like I always try to do. Just want to say thank you once again for all the holiday 00:19:57
decorations I really enjoy. 00:20:02
Seeing them all around. 00:20:07
Umm, Main Street Center St. the the trees and the train. It's very nice. It kind of gives me that Mayberry feel that I like and 00:20:10
but I do have a question or two about. 00:20:16
Last week. 00:20:24
Last week, a City Council meeting. 00:20:25
You mentioned the cemetery and fire station using RDA money. 00:20:28
And I would like to know. 00:20:34
Where? How much money you're planning on? 00:20:38
For the RDA. 00:20:42
I noticed today that in the land donation. 00:20:45
That the fire station is part. 00:20:49
But it doesn't say exactly where that will. 00:20:52
And also I'd like to know where the cemetery will be located. 00:20:55
And then also I had a comment, I'd like to know if I can comment on a consent item. 00:21:00
About the bicycle. 00:21:05
And let's see, Bicycle Advisory Commission 6.2 Yeah, go ahead. OK, I just have. 00:21:08
A question about that, I'd like to know who requested this. 00:21:16
To become three resident members, two alternate residents and then two at large, was it the staff, the council, a resident or the 00:21:20
Commission? 00:21:25
And what was the? What is the reasoning behind this? 00:21:30
Amendment. 00:21:34
OK, OK, so hold on. Who requested it? 00:21:36
Staff Council. 00:21:42
The Commission or resident and reason for it. OK. Thanks, Daria. Thank you. 00:21:43
Sean Herring, Vineyard resident Just two quick questions in a statement. 00:21:55
Since there's so many here tonight. 00:22:00
Where are public notices posted? 00:22:02
Heidi, Anybody want to talk about where public notices are posted? 00:22:07
They are posted on. 00:22:17
On our website and in our bulletin board upstairs and then I think there's a pavilion area at one of the parks. It's also posted 00:22:18
there. OK, to that point, just a general observation where most people are on social media I would think. 00:22:26
Facebook would be a great place to post. 00:22:35
Public notices. I think a lot of people get their information there, They look there first before. 00:22:38
Driving over here, getting out of the car, walking in to see a hard copy. 00:22:44
So just a suggestion I would. 00:22:49
Up that public notice game a little bit. 00:22:52
Do you have more? Sorry, I got plenty. OK. 00:22:56
Go ahead. Do you have a question? No, I just thanking you for your comment. I thought you were done. That's one. And then social 00:22:59
media one. 00:23:02
On top of that, but the biggest thing tonight I think, because we hear a lot from council. 00:23:05
And we hear a lot from Planning Commission and we hear a lot from employees of the city. 00:23:10
Online and here at these meetings. 00:23:15
This was approved two years ago. You should have been here two years ago. 00:23:18
Tyson's point? Not a lot of people showed up. 00:23:21
So we hear that often. We hear that often. 00:23:25
And I just hope tonight as you. 00:23:27
You know, the people are getting more and more engaged, which you guys have asked for. People are getting engaged. There's going 00:23:30
to be people here for or against all these. 00:23:34
I just want you to listen. 00:23:38
Give everybody their 3 minutes and whatever it wants to be. 00:23:40
Give everybody 3 minutes and just please listen tonight. 00:23:44
Thanks, son. All right. Any other comments? 00:23:47
Come on up. 00:23:52
Karen Cornelius, Vineyard resident. 00:24:00
I'm going to speak directly into the mic because the people in the hallway cannot hear. 00:24:02
My first thing I'd like to say. 00:24:07
This is a very important meeting, I think we can all agree on that. 00:24:10
There are many people who have come because it's a very important. 00:24:14
And I would ask you. 00:24:18
To postpone it until we can find a place where these people in the hall. 00:24:20
And in this room can both hear what's going on. This is a stand to do it this way. 00:24:26
For just a second, if you agree with somebody, please raise your hand. We're going to avoid clapping so that we can hear people. 00:24:33
Thank you. 00:24:36
My other concern is. 00:24:41
And this is a tough one to bring up, but I'm going to do it anyway. 00:24:44
It's a very, very difficult, time consuming and requires a lot of effort on the part of the citizens of this city as well as. 00:24:48
The councilmen and women that are. 00:24:58
But I don't think we are given credit for following and coming and speaking what we feel. 00:25:01
It takes time and effort, especially when 199 page document is posted at 4:00 the day before is going to be heard. 00:25:09
That is. 00:25:19
It's Christmas. 00:25:22
We have so much going on in our lives and if we want to stay up online we can read it and then we can come for prepared. I think 00:25:23
this meeting needs to be postponed so we have a time and a place where people can sit and be heard and speak. 00:25:32
My last comment has to do with and I know I won't get an answer. 00:25:41
But where did the money come from for Amber to send a text to every citizen? 00:25:46
And this this. 00:25:53
To bad mouth a man who won the election. 00:25:56
That's just wrong and it doesn't speak well. I'm going to say. I'm going to say something really quick just about your comment. 00:26:00
Let's refrain to things that are not in our jurisdiction. If you'd like to talk to Amber, you can talk to her after. Thank you. 00:26:05
It is in your jurisdiction. You are the mayor. If Ivan as a citizen, I would have heard from you. 00:26:12
But I just feel like this meeting should not be held at this time. Yes, I had it sent. Please stop. 00:26:19
We want to hear it. We want to hear it. 00:26:29
Thank you for. 00:26:31
Well, can we can we pause this meeting to a time and a place where we can all hear? Because these people out there want to hear 00:26:33
too. And this is wrong. OK. Thank you. 00:26:39
Raise your hand, please. 00:26:46
All right, if somebody wants to go out from our staff and just let people know that they can sign on to the. 00:26:48
The link so that they can hear it and then they can come in and make commentary. 00:26:55
That would be helpful for them. 00:27:00
Thanks. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Chase Wheeler. I'm a venue resident in lakefront. 00:27:03
And I'm not even really going to talk to them because I've been doing this for like a year. They don't listen anyway. So public 00:27:09
comments, I'm going to tell all of you my experience with them. 00:27:14
So I'm a local firefighter paramedic. My wife's a first grade teacher. What got me involved was. 00:27:20
You know, all my calls. I see a lot of bad things. You know, people, sexual assault, domestic violence, a bunch of stuff. 00:27:27
And I saw my house, and I think we all witnessed with like, the front runner, there's not enough parking. And so I saw women 00:27:33
walking home late at night. 00:27:37
And I came here and said, hey, this is like a women safety issue. Like, can we just takedown these signs? There's parking spots 00:27:42
already there. And there's a cycle that I kind of went through with the City Council where at first I heard a lot of, like great 00:27:48
things like, man, there's silver tongue. 00:27:54
And so they said they do a parking study and all we. 00:28:00
And so I kind of went away and they blamed the HOA. So I was like, OK, so then I went and became the HOA president and found out 00:28:03
that it wasn't the HOA's fault. 00:28:08
And so we came back and we actually got a bunch of college girls to come and plead with the City Council to let us park in front 00:28:13
of the house and. 00:28:17
My experience, like I just want to get back to like humanity and like common human decency in this like city. 00:28:22
Because like I've just been met with such, like, hostility, cold hearted. 00:28:29
And uh. 00:28:35
It's it's just really disappointing. And so, I mean, I'm not even going to listen to what they say because I've wasted a year 00:28:36
already. 00:28:39
But I just am proud of all of you, like the people to getting up and like taking a voice back. You know, I heard certain people 00:28:43
talk about me, me, me and our choices and the five council members. But like. 00:28:49
They don't have power. We gave them this power and they are stewards of us. 00:28:55
And what we want. 00:29:01
Not oh, we built the city. City Council built this city. Like this is our city, and I hope that. 00:29:03
Like, I know they won't listen, but. 00:29:10
Look at the facts, like the voting, like people are upset. 00:29:13
And. 00:29:16
I don't know. I just hope that someone has integrity, you know? 00:29:19
I thought it was like, hold on Chase, you're running out of time. 00:29:23
We kind of passed it. I'm just giving you a little bit extra. 00:29:27
OK. Thanks Face. 00:30:03
Next. 00:30:06
I'm Sherry Kay Miller. And actually last week when I made a comment, it did not go the way I intended. So I wrote it down so that 00:30:08
this time it doesn't go that way. And I just want to add that nobody knows that I'm making this comment okay. So the first thing I 00:30:15
want to do is to apologize to Brad. I don't know if he's here. 00:30:21
Because last last week. 00:30:27
I pointed out his expressions and his eye rolling, and I realized as soon as I sat down that that was wrong, that that was 00:30:31
confrontational. 00:30:36
That it was unkind and I am sincerely sorry because what we need right now is communication, clearly without insulting. 00:30:42
Anyway, and he wasn't the only one in the room, and it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. And I knew, and I 00:30:52
know that I'm responsible for my words and actions. 00:30:56
Wrong to do. And I'm sorry. I am not Jake's wife or child. I am not his mom or dad. 00:31:01
I am not his brother, sorry. 00:31:07
But I am his aunt and neighbor and the feelings that have been building up. 00:31:10
Last week they came out as a Mama bear and I. 00:31:16
But I do think the attacks on him, especially that citywide text, was wrong. 00:31:20
At main. 00:31:24
And I was raised that my behavior does not is not justified even because of someone else's behavior. So again, I'm saying that 00:31:26
that's this is not an excuse but a shallow explanation. I grew up here in Vineyard and there was a very there were very real 00:31:33
situations of conflict. At times these conflicts you got to go a little bit faster. I've got one minute, 38 seconds. OK, sorry, 00:31:39
I'm just listening to the people telling me time. 00:31:46
And there was a situation of real conflict at times. 00:31:54
Conflicts were solved without blasting or bullying and with much listening and respect of others opinions. 00:31:57
I heard many times that conflict is inevitable, but contention is optional. 00:32:03
Anyway, the second thing I wanted to clarify is the example of the mural I made. I actually went home to look for and found the 00:32:08
text thread on my phone. 00:32:12
Christy and I have worked together and I've enjoyed working with Christy and we were talking about Arts committee stuff and at the 00:32:16
end of the text this is what it said. 00:32:20
Also, you will see a survey that just went out about the mural. The mayor wanted to make sure residents felt included. Overall, 00:32:25
she loves the mural and just wanted to make sure we cover all of our bases. I responded with great 2 exclamation points and this 00:32:30
is a good idea. 00:32:35
The point that I was trying to make is we as residents want to feel included and listened to and. 00:32:41
That's a good, important part I needed in our city governance. We haven't felt included through all the saga of the lake 00:32:47
restoration. 00:32:51
So listen, Fiasco and we want to fill, we don't want to fill the same now tonight with the inland port issue. 00:32:55
I'm hoping that you won't vote for it until the residents have enjoyed their Christmas time with their families and if it's a good 00:33:01
thing tonight. 00:33:04
Like I said last week, it will be good in a few weeks or. 00:33:08
The last thing I want to. 00:33:13
Is that what I'm really standing for? As someone who grew up here in Vineyard, I'm really sad at the reputation that I'm hearing. 00:33:15
That citywide text went to people who haven't lived in vineyards for 2 1/2 years. 00:33:23
And I was getting texts like. Why am I getting this text? How did I have me in a database? What is going on here? 00:33:28
And also for everybody's information, it's 2 minutes. 00:33:36
So I thought it said three months, that's OK. 00:33:40
OK, All right. Anyway, Heidi, where does it say? 00:33:44
Listen, I understand there's restoration. Hold on, Sir. Hold on, Sir. OK, thank you. I just need to confirm the time because I 00:33:47
have people telling me two minutes and then we have 3 minutes. OK, so if it says three, it is 3 minutes. 00:33:54
All right. Thank. 00:34:02
All right, come on. If anybody remember, please do not repeat what other people have said. 00:34:03
So 3 minutes. 00:34:12
And it's for things that are not on the agenda if you were out in the hall and you did not hear it. 00:34:15
That infrastructure to corporations. And so my concern with the cities is to let them know that once you sell infrastructure to a 00:34:51
corporation, you are going to end up in a civil court which is different. And so giving the the what should be public to private, 00:34:57
it sounds like we're still talking about one of our items which we can totally reserve for you to talk about later. But this is 00:35:03
for things that are not currently on the agenda. Come back to it and you can talk about it. When it comes to since I'm here my my 00:35:09
hope is that. 00:35:15
As you guys listen to them, you have an opportunity to stand in between in a role of inner position. 00:35:22
And so my hope is that you don't take what people have is fear and concern and translate it into US versus them. And I I realize a 00:35:28
lot of people have a lot of passion here and it can get really defensive. And so there's a lot of information. And I just want to 00:35:34
echo what everybody else is saying, that there is kind and there's plenty of information and like Salt Lake County, you can't undo 00:35:40
this once you do it. So please don't do it tonight. Please do it later. Thank you. OK. Thanks for your comment. 00:35:47
My name is Jacob Holloway. 00:35:58
I'm grateful for everyone that's here. 00:36:06
And I apologize that we have to do this during the Christmas season. 00:36:10
We shouldn't be here right now. 00:36:15
US state law putting out the schedules. This isn't an emergency, like an act of God. I have something to say. 00:36:18
I know that you guys want us to postpone this. We have heard that comment. I know that you don't want us to listen. We have heard 00:36:25
that comment. I know that you want us to make sure that we are open if this comment is something else. 00:36:31
Please go ahead and share it. If it's the same thing, let's go ahead and move on so we can keep business going so everybody here 00:36:38
can get their comments out for the agenda. 00:36:43
I also want to respect and thank Marty for taking off that consent item of restructuring. 00:36:47
That was on there that there was an attempt to change that. 00:36:55
That that sends. 00:37:00
You know, we we ran an election. 00:37:02
Getting to the bottom of the LRS. 00:37:05
Getting the grammar documents out, interviewing staff. 00:37:08
Not. 00:37:12
But to get your involvement, Mayor Eric's involvement? 00:37:14
And understand how many were defrauded. 00:37:20
How many were? 00:37:22
And we were very transparent in that over a year and a half process. 00:37:25
Once seated and getting access to those documents, we, Sarah and I. 00:37:30
Would like to do and we will be doing a complete investigation. 00:37:34
Keeping six point. 00:37:38
As our authority and equal is very important to the form of our government. The second we're going to be talking about that off 00:37:40
the agenda. So if anybody else wants to make a comment that has to do about 6.7. 00:37:46
You'll be able to talk about it because it was removed from consent to discuss. 00:37:53
So anything that's on the agenda, please refrain from talking about it so we can get through business because there are so many 00:37:59
people here tonight. 00:38:02
In 1980, my grandfather Robert, with four of his cousins and uncles, recognized that they were not being listened by. 00:38:06
And found that during the planning. 00:38:14
That they wanted to design their their city. 00:38:16
Their voice needed to be heard. The 12th West trailers were coming in, chemical plants were coming in, and they wanted to design 00:38:20
their city. 00:38:24
I stand before you. 00:38:28
As a third generation person, that's going to be serving on this council, and it's not the council, it's the citizens that have to 00:38:31
be heard. It was the dream of those men. 00:38:36
They came forward and ran legislation to create this. 00:38:41
And and it wasn't of the council. It was for the people and of the people, and to throw this through. 00:38:46
And potentially and the last thing I want to say is. 00:38:54
I've spoken with the developers that are trying to do this pit and I've spoken to them directly on having a good relationship 00:38:58
after this. 00:39:02
I might not be able to kind of the previous. It's been few minutes. I'll say this because you spoke for 20 seconds, OK, I might 00:39:06
not be able to hold this council accountable. 00:39:11
But if this is pushed through, I, Sarah, and I are viewing this as bad faith, and allowing us to be involved in the process is 00:39:16
important to us, and it's important you're still talking about. 00:39:22
That will be on the agenda and you'll have an opportunity at that time. But now I've heard your comment. 00:39:28
All right. Any other comments before we move on to the agenda items? OK. Remember, this is about something that has not been said, 00:39:33
something that is not on the agenda. I'm really amazed that even though you may have a, excuse me, I'm Keith Holdaway, I might be 00:39:38
the longest. 00:39:44
The oldest resident of the vineyard. 00:39:50
That that had had to do with the City Council. I tried to get others who have been on the council here. 00:39:52
But. But that's a tough thing to ask. 00:40:00
When they've dealt with. 00:40:03
I am. I've just come from a Christmas party. I am highly offended. 00:40:06
That this came, this agenda was dropped 24 hours ago. 00:40:12
When I had my Christmas party. It's going on right now. 00:40:17
And I can't be there. I got to welcome them there, and I've got to come and take care of this Dang mess. 00:40:22
The timing on this sucks. How in the world can we make such great decisions when we only have 24 hours to actually address? 00:40:28
That is, that is ridiculous. 00:40:39
OK, remember, refrain. Just raise your hand so we can hear. 00:40:42
This is our time. 00:40:49
I've never, I never had ruined gammon make those kind of comments. Everybody was able to speak their heart. 00:40:50
So, so Please be patient. 00:40:57
Because we're frustr. 00:40:59
Because we've seen a lot of bad stuff in the past. 00:41:01
Why? Why this comes up in between the election until the new citizens? 00:41:06
Are are seated as ridiculous. It's obvious what the game plan is You're not hiding. Please raise your hand. 00:41:11
So that we can hear, be respectful of the order that we're trying to do. 00:41:20
Listen, I I need. I need you to understand something. This is a room that is going to have order in it so that we can all respect 00:41:26
each other. I understand you want to be heard. Raise your hand when we see you and we are hearing what you're saying. 00:41:34
Go ahead. Thank you. At the same time, we expect respect from our elected officials. 00:41:43
On that, on that respect INVOL. 00:41:51
Being open, communicating. 00:41:54
Closed door sessions. I've never seen one before. When my father and I were on the council. Why are we doing this sort of thing? 00:41:57
Let's be. 00:42:01
Let's talk about things. Why do we have to rush things? 00:42:06
A rush decision is always a poor decision. 00:42:11
It always has been and it always will. 00:42:15
And I'm not sure what your backdoor game plan is, but it really stinks to high heaven as we view it from your 200 page agenda. 00:42:18
Though we only have a hard time understanding this, and I don't know who wrote it, I'd like to know who actually wrote it for you. 00:42:28
Because I and I wonder what's? 00:42:36
What's in it for you, Mayor? 00:42:40
And and. 00:42:42
Because, because anybody in their right mind wouldn't give away our tax base. 00:42:44
Nobody in their mind. Thank you. I'm done. Thank you. Did you did you want to? Please refrain? Raise your hand if you agree. Did 00:42:51
you want to explain the public process they're talking about? 00:42:58
Closed sessions, backdoor meetings, and I I don't know if we should talk about how things are posted or processed or anything like 00:43:05
that. 00:43:09
I'm not sure. I'm not sure what he's referring to on closed door meetings or closed sessions or that kind of thing. The. 00:43:16
Our meetings are noticed through the state has a public website where all cities are required to publish their notices. 00:43:24
The requirement for all cities throughout the state is 24 hours. 00:43:31
Beforehand for the agenda, The city complies with that. There are some items that require longer notice if they deal with land 00:43:34
use, if they deal with property disposition. 00:43:39
There are a handful of other items that might require different notices than that. 00:43:44
When items require that kind of notice, we publish. 00:43:49
Hold on Tristy, let me respond. 00:44:34
We have an online portal that you can use and these people, if they have a comment on something, can walk into the meeting and we 00:44:36
can hear them. I can't hear you out there to even hear what's happening. 00:44:41
Is it possible that we can put one of our videos, like our screens out there that they can access what we're doing right now? Will 00:44:47
we get feedback? 00:44:52
Well, we do. We do meet the candidates at an elementary school. You guys have been telling me for 10 years that I've been here. 00:44:59
Please come and participate. You have people participating. If you choose to vote on this without listening to us, it's on you 00:45:03
guys. 00:45:07
That's all I expect if if the items come up, we will let you know what item we're on and people from that room can come and speak 00:45:12
about it if they would like to. 00:45:17
We will go and notice what item we are on and they can come and speak about it if they would like to. 00:45:23
Go ahead. Hi there. My name is David. I tell I'm a vineyard resident. I live in Westbrook. I don't know if you have to say where 00:45:29
you're from. 00:45:33
I just have two quick questions. I promise you this is something separate one. The other night there was a crash out on 800 and I 00:45:37
don't know if you guys are driving on the road during that time, but holy hell. 00:45:43
The traffic was insane. 00:45:49
Like I I don't always commute, but it was really bad. 00:45:51
You go one way, there's people going through parking lots. I just want to like bring that up as like as like a hey, what are we 00:45:54
going to do about those type of things? I mean it's Utah, someone dies on the 15 every day. So like what is our plan? Would it be 00:46:01
like a police officer standing up with the lights and and got in traffic or if it's like getting the lights to do something? 00:46:07
But like I was stuck in traffic for like 35 minutes to go a block or two. So but also thank you to the EMS like I'm a health care 00:46:14
worker. Thank you for the EMS workers. I'd have to do a great job to handle that situation. 00:46:19
Second of all, David, just on your question, you're mostly talking about access or was there a problem with the signal or? 00:46:25
And. 00:47:07
You need to get everyone on the same page going the same direction. I don't know. 00:47:42
Second question, a second problem I have, I want to bring up the city was I don't know if everyone had this, but there was a bunch 00:47:46
of people laying fiber lines in like city in like different subdivisions. I don't know if that was a city thing or subconscious 00:47:51
thing but they spray painted all over my property. 00:47:56
And that stuff's not coming off and they ****** ** my lawn. Sorry. And there's this cones that have been here for like 3 weeks and 00:48:01
I just think that's like a really bad showing. Like I've called the city office, but I haven't really gotten any response. I think 00:48:08
it was a private industry, but I there are several people here that you can talk to, so. 00:48:14
I really didn't get any help in the city, so OK, Yeah, we'll make sure that you do. Thank you so much. 00:49:11
Chris Price, Providence Vineyard Vineyard resident I'm I'm super nervous, so I hope that I can. 00:49:24
Get out what I what I'm what I'm trying to say. Umm. 00:49:30
There's a ton of stuff that I that I would like to talk about on the agenda, but I don't think I'm going to make it that far. And 00:49:33
so I'm just going to, I'm going to talk to the the. 00:49:38
And. 00:49:43
I want you guys to know how much I love. 00:49:48
Our country. I love our country. 00:49:51
Our Const. 00:49:55
Was forged out of blood and sacrifice. 00:49:57
Of all of the greatest people in our country. 00:50:02
Each of the people that signed the Declaration of Independence. 00:50:06
Pledged their lives. 00:50:09
And all that. 00:50:11
To this idea of. 00:50:14
And many of them. Most of them. 00:50:18
Lost their treasure and their families. 00:50:21
And many of them. 00:50:24
Through this pledge to bring about freedom. 00:50:26
That doc. 00:50:31
Is alive in every single tiny town. 00:50:32
From Washington, DC to Los Angeles. 00:50:37
When you're sworn. 00:50:43
You pledge yourself to abide by the state. 00:50:45
And the federal constitution of this country. 00:50:49
Part of that. 00:50:54
Is that the citizens of this state, the citizens of this community and this city? 00:50:57
Give each and everyone. 00:51:04
Power to make decisions on our behalf. 00:51:07
With that we. 00:51:12
That you be our voice. 00:51:14
And I want you. 00:51:17
That the voice of the citizens have made their voice heard. 00:51:21
This ele. 00:51:26
Was a massive wake up to the trajectory that you're taking the city. 00:51:27
We don't want it. 00:51:35
We want development. We want this place to be developed, but not in the vision that you guys are taking. 00:51:37
I am asking each and everyone. 00:51:46
To look at this room. 00:51:50
And the people who are. 00:51:52
That feel the same way that we. 00:51:54
I ask that you guys. 00:51:58
In accordance with the way that the citizens are showing up. 00:52:01
And making their voices. 00:52:05
And not in. 00:52:08
Of. 00:52:10
We elected you and gave you power from us. This is what the Constitution is, Amber. 00:52:12
You can disagree with. 00:52:20
This is what people thought and. 00:52:22
Died. 00:52:24
To make this happen to give you power to. 00:52:25
On my beh. 00:52:29
Thank you. 00:52:32
My name is Julie Cox. I've been a resident of Vineyards since 2019. I live in the Providence neighborhood. I have two primary 00:52:39
questions to ask our mayor and our sitting City Council Why are you in office and who are your constituents? 00:52:45
I'm quoting from the Vineyard Utah org website of our Mayors bio, she says. In 2017 I spoke about the need to create clear 00:52:51
communication and transparency in the city. 00:52:56
A constituency facing atmosphere within the city. I've been serving the people of our community for almost 10 years, actively 00:53:02
engaged in bettering the community, coming to the table if decision making and fighting for the needs of the individuals and the 00:53:08
neighborhoods of Vineyard. 00:53:13
I find time to know the needs of your communities. 00:53:18
You've talked tonight about respect. Do you respect the people that showed up tonight enough to not move forward with the agenda 00:53:22
tonight? 00:53:26
Who are your constituents? 00:53:31
Are they? 00:53:33
Or are they develop? 00:53:34
Are you willing to sell Vineyard and not listen to the residents of Vineyard tonight? 00:53:36
I would tell. 00:53:43
If you respect your constituents, constituents, you will not move forward. 00:53:45
You will listen to us. 00:53:50
And you will take our opinions into consideration prior to making these important decisions. 00:53:52
Stop the meeting. Don't move forward. There should not be a vote tonight. 00:53:57
Jason Christiansen, I have my comments are regarding at one of the action items on the agenda tonight, but I just want. 00:54:10
Hold on, I just want to make a brief comment regarding this time public comment. 00:54:19
Is there's too much contention? 00:54:25
We are supposed to be a Christian community. 00:54:29
All of us. 00:54:34
Are supposed to be gravitating towards God. 00:54:37
Can we and those wrongs on both sides? 00:54:40
The action I am I came for tonight was on the agenda 2 weeks ago. 00:54:43
There was a lot of confusion from the public. 00:54:48
Populace. There's also a lot of. 00:54:52
Low tolerance and tyrannical. 00:54:59
Opinion funded from this governing. 00:55:01
Can we please? 00:55:04
Just take two minutes 3 minutes. 00:55:07
All of us come together in sacred, humble prayer. 00:55:10
To put aside contention to have reasonable discussion. 00:55:16
And for for. 00:55:22
Thank you. 00:55:26
Ryan, Holdaway resident I'm sorry my mom couldn't make it to the family reunion. 00:55:35
Because all of us have spoke. 00:55:40
And I just, I've been thinking a lot about last week and last week we talked a lot about vesting developers rights. 00:55:42
And forgive me for not recalling who who said it, but. 00:55:49
Somebody said at some point that developers have rights, which I agree with. Land owners have rights, however. 00:55:53
As a City Council and as a Planning Commission, it's your responsibility to represent the citizens, not the developers rights. 00:55:59
And I would call upon you to consider that in your actions. 00:56:06
My major concern last week was about public safety and about pedestrian safety, specifically on the road where. 00:56:10
Allowed public parking. 00:56:18
So a high school senior died this. 00:56:20
Engaged in that I drive by that memorial every single day, and it's a stinging reminder of government's failure to protect our 00:56:23
citizens because no one has done anything about it. 00:56:28
Somebody died there. That park is full of parking all the time. Nobody's done anything. What's happening? 00:56:32
And it frustrates. 00:56:38
That last week. 00:56:40
After. 00:56:43
It was very frustrating to me as a citizen who wants to protect my own children because my children walk in that park. 00:56:44
And it scares me. 00:56:51
My last comment is developers do have rights. 00:56:53
And some of those rights, if it doesn't comply with what your direction is or the planning direction is, is to sell their 00:56:56
property. 00:56:59
They can choose to not comply with what is the best solution for our community and I challenge you guys to find the best solution, 00:57:02
not the developer's best solution. 00:57:06
But our city's best. 00:57:11
And all the actions that you're doing, like I call upon that and call upon your greater sense of good. 00:57:13
What up, council? I'll be short and sweet. My name is Clayton Preet. I live in Solstice. 00:57:24
I know it's kind of been said. I know we don't want to rehash anything, but literally I'm standing right at the door and I can't 00:57:29
hear a word this dude said into his microphone. Is there any way we can turn these up just a little bit? There's probably 50 or 60 00:57:33
people outside we cannot hear a word. And with the delay with Facebook, there's like 9 different phones going out there. It's 00:57:38
crazy. 00:57:42
So I mean, unless I'm breathing on it, they can hear me outside. So is there anything we can do about that? If so, that would be 00:57:47
awesome. We're all trying to show the support. Thank you. 00:57:51
Appreciate it. 00:57:55
Heidi, were you able to? 00:57:57
Razor. 00:57:58
My name is Jim McGill and I've been your res. 00:58:01
In a transparent government. 00:58:05
This subject, starting last week, this subject would have come out to the residence and it would have come out in the form of town 00:58:07
hall meetings. We had a lot of. 00:58:12
And there's been maps and explanations. There were people I wanted to stop you just for a second. I don't know if you were out in 00:58:17
the public, but let me tell you what we've already heard. 00:58:21
Out in the hall, I get my listen. Hold on one second. We've already heard I can talk over each other. 00:58:26
Because I get my 3 minutes and I haven't gotten. 00:58:32
I'm just wondering, were you out in the hall or were you in? 00:58:35
All I want to say. 00:58:40
Is that we would have. We would have town hall meetings. There would be explanations. There would be time for each one of us to 00:58:43
get our questions answered. We would get. 00:58:48
We would be in a venue that would allow us all to participate as citizens. 00:58:54
And in actually a real city government, like I said last week, we would be celebrating our outgoing council members. 00:58:59
Educating our. 00:59:07
Coming to excuse me, incoming council members and we would be all home at Christmas parties. 00:59:09
This is not how government is. 00:59:16
Hold on one second. 00:59:22
All right. We are going to close public comment at a quarter two. So you still have a few more minutes and then we're going to 00:59:44
wrap up and go on to the agenda items. So if you still have something that's not on the agenda has not been set, please come 00:59:48
forward and state your comment. 00:59:52
1/4. 00:59:57
What time is it? Just kidding. Not 1/4 to quarter after. 01:00:00
Thanks Sarah Cameron, Parkside Vineyard resident So. 01:00:05
That's really loud. Is that intentional? Can you guys hear me out there? 01:00:11
Umm, so for three weeks after, it looked like Jake and I had been elected, I've been in contact with you, Julie, to be able to 01:00:14
cover the signs in lakefront so that people could park there overnight. 01:00:21
During the dark time and the cold and it's been a back and forth exchange, there's never been, yeah, I'll go ahead and do that. I 01:00:28
think that would be really nice to the citizens, especially the young women who are coming home from work at midnight or 1:00 in 01:00:35
the morning to not have to walk so far. So I'm wondering if you would give us permission to do that this weekend. 01:00:41
All right. 01:00:49
Just to answer your question. 01:00:51
When I called the ETA, it said because we had worked on that permit process together, they did not need additional parking. I've 01:00:54
been in touch with their management company to get. 01:00:59
Data to show whether or not they still need it. 01:01:04
And so if you would like to talk to them and ask them why that is. 01:01:08
And they've made it very, very clear that they need extra parking. That's and clearly. 01:01:46
I hear you and I will. I will send you that data that they send me and you will have access to it to see what they said and you'll 01:01:52
get the response that I'm getting back from it. And I appreciate it. I appreciate that you cared. I appreciate that you brought it 01:01:59
to my attention and we're having this conversation. So thank you. I do care. And it's cold right now, so. 01:02:06
Just a simple yes or no would be awesome. 01:02:14
Thanks. There's definitely a. 01:02:16
My name is Tyler Harrelson. I live in Edgewater. 01:02:25
I last time I came to City Council meeting, I talked about the accident on 400. SI kind of heard through the Grapevine after that. 01:02:30
One or more of you had thought that I was accusing you of killing the pedestrian, Which? 01:02:39
I didn't realize I'd be politicizing in front of this many people, but that is not at all. 01:02:46
Meant to communicate. I may disagree with the design over there, but I don't think any of you wanted the best thing to be killed. 01:02:50
I don't think the driver wanted the pedestrian to be killed. I don't think anyone wanted the pedestrian to be killed. So I want to 01:02:55
do portraits for that and. 01:03:01
For not keeping my cool, a little bit more about it. You don't need to apologize. I think everybody here understands how sad it 01:03:07
is. Sienna Life is meaningful to all of us. I think that if anybody said anything, I imagine that it was. 01:03:15
We have been proactively working on that street for sidewalks and crossings and making sure that access is meaningful. And I would 01:03:23
say that that particular intersection is not designed for anybody to cross it because of the glare and the sun. And so it's 01:03:30
engineered for the people to go down to different crosswalks. And so we talked about how there needs to be more education for why 01:03:37
people need to walk to this cross box and there's no parking in that particular area because of where it is as an access point. 01:03:45
So the jurisdiction also doesn't fall into our city. And so when we're talking about our policy, even though we're being proactive 01:03:53
and we're working with the other city and we're trying to come together to a resolve finding the right thing, to say we want 01:04:01
people to go to different corners, it was not lost on us. And to say maybe we need to put a sign there that says This is why. 01:04:08
You cannot cross at this intersection, whatever it is. But whatever your comment was, it was meaningful. It's meaningful to all of 01:04:15
us. The loss of that life is meaningful to all of us. So you don't need to apologize. Just thank you for sharing your comment. I 01:04:19
did also want to clarify. 01:04:24
I want to apologize and clarify because two council members leaving, I I didn't want them leaving with bad terms, but I also want 01:04:29
to clarify. 01:04:34
You kind of have two strategies that would be effective there. You could choose one of the two. The first one is. 01:04:38
So at sort of the base level of the physics of what happened was a car was going fast enough to be lethal and it hit a pedestrian 01:04:45
and the pedestrian died because the force is transferred, right? 01:04:51
So your first strategy would be to slow down the cars through design so you could put in different design options of juror 01:04:57
engineering planning has. 01:05:01
Lots of ideas. 01:05:06
So that would be good. The second one would be to take sort of a firing range approach and a firing range. They don't try to slow 01:05:08
down the bullets so there's safe enough to hit people. They just get the people out of the way and they have fences up and they've 01:05:13
got the one little tiny doorway that you can go through and people are watching that, making sure you don't go through. They close 01:05:18
it while it's going. 01:05:23
So putting up a sign would be good for education, but I think that you kind of like putting up a sign. 01:05:29
Next to it would be better ones there now, but it'd be like putting up a sign of the firing range that. 01:05:36
Dunk over there. I think you you'd probably be better off putting up a fence so that the pedestrian has to walk down a ton. 01:05:42
Offensive. They couldn't climb it, so they have to walk down to the correct intersection that way. 01:05:48
Think they're good and try to cross illegally and then get in. So thank you. Thank you. 01:05:55
Karen Cornelius, vineyard resident. I know I spoke once, but before you go to business. 01:06:08
Please step outside. 01:06:13
And look at who cannot. 01:06:15
It's not working. 01:06:18
There's a delay from what's going on in here to what's going on out there. It's on cell phones, there's no speaker system. 01:06:21
How can you carry on business of this import? 01:06:28
To every citizen of this. 01:06:33
Without being willing to allow them to hear, I beg. 01:06:36
To cancel for go and move it to another day. 01:06:40
When we don't have Christmas concerts that we're trying to. 01:06:44
Fiddle with when we don't have family commitments. This was wrong, is wrong and we are pleading with you. Somebody go out there 01:06:49
and see. 01:06:54
This is a circus. 01:06:59
Thank you. 01:07:01
All right. Parker Edwards, vineyard resident. 01:07:06
So I think this all comes down to transparency. 01:07:10
Right. I don't know if you guys have ever done anything else except for this, but like on the first page, I think this is a really 01:07:13
good example. 01:07:16
You guys have on the first page here that somebody has 3 minutes to speak and this page, this document is 3 pages long. 01:07:20
Yesterday you released a 200 page document and expect everybody here to understand it. 01:07:27
So yeah, I think that would be a really good idea. I think you guys should step outside and just see, like, how many people are 01:07:32
here, they can't hear a thing. 01:07:36
So yeah, this all just comes down to transparency. My aunt and uncle. 01:07:40
It's they're the Holder ways. 01:07:47
And the things that I saw on social media that I'm assuming are posted by one of you actually. 01:07:49
We're absolutely unbeliev. 01:07:56
Like, absolutely unbelievable. 01:07:58
I'm not. I'm not as old as some people here, only 24 years old. 01:08:01
But I'm just letting you know that. 01:08:05
If you guys have to go that low. 01:08:08
To win an election. 01:08:11
Like, give me a freaking break. So thanks, bye. 01:08:13
I don't know what he's talking about. 01:08:17
Good evening. My name is Ann Taylor and I have never been to one of these and I'm. 01:08:23
Wish I had done, but I actually left the grand. 01:08:28
Concert to come. 01:08:32
Because I feel like it's this important and I did not know and you're not listening. 01:08:34
I'm sorry, can you repeat that again? I would be happy to. I apologize. 01:08:41
Listen, I understand you might have said that we don't listen, and then there's this catch and it's really funny. But what we were 01:08:49
trying to decide is if we needed to clarify what the gentleman in the back said or whether or not we understood him. So we're 01:08:54
trying to listen and I understand that. It's frustrating. 01:08:59
You have to understand that we're doing our best to hear you and we're doing our best to conduct business. 01:09:04
So we are trying to listen. So if you told me that, we're not listening. 01:09:09
I apolog. 01:09:15
We are here trying to listen. 01:09:16
And just for your for your sake, would you please come back to the microphone because none of us knew what you were talking about. 01:09:19
So we just wanted a quick clarifying point on what you're talking about with the Post. 01:09:25
OK, so my name is Ann Taylor. This is the first time I've been to one of these meetings and I lived in Vineyard for three years 01:09:34
and was really I'm thrilled to move here from Las Vegas. 01:09:39
And it's I feel like was sold a different bill of goods than what's happening here and I don't feel like. 01:09:44
I've there has been. 01:09:52
And communication of what's going on. And the only reason I knew is because of a few neighbors. And I would just really appreciate 01:09:53
that. Yeah, that's something as important as. 01:09:58
Some of the things that are on the agenda tonight should not be handled and this quickly. I'm not sure what the rush is on all of 01:10:04
these different items. It seems like that are really, really important. 01:10:09
And I just, you know, like I say shame on me for not being able to be here before, but also like I I left a grand. 01:10:15
Band concert. So I could come here and then there's not even a place to sit or here or anything. And I'm just kind of like, wow, I 01:10:23
don't. I realized it was this chaotic. 01:10:27
And so it's a little frustrating to see this and this little stage of that I really love and appreciate and so I hope that you 01:10:32
would reconsider some of these things and when like I think some other people said and I wasn't here earlier. 01:10:38
That we need a venue where people can. 01:10:46
I'll be here and be heard and be and also hear you. 01:10:51
And what's going on and and what the motivations are behind all these things that have to move so quickly? 01:10:55
I'm not sure if they're so major. 01:11:01
That. 01:11:03
We'd really like some understanding. 01:11:07
And some better communication. 01:11:09
Thank you. 01:11:12
OK, so I can just read it. 01:11:13
Well, I don't need you to read it. Just briefly state what it is so that we can understand the text from Amber. OK. Yeah. I think, 01:11:17
I think we all know what you're talking about. I would assume so. Yeah, so, like, how is that OK? 01:11:25
OK, I'll just state this. If Amber at any time would like to clarify her personal choices, she may. 01:11:33
The council does uphold the Constitution, and there's the Freedom of Speech Act. And even though she serves on the City Council, 01:11:41
she does not speak for the City Council when she does things like that. So if she's talking about something that she believes to 01:11:46
be fitness of character, it could come off bad as somebody else. 01:11:51
And to somebody else. 01:11:57
Provides fitness of character. May be something that somebody else doesn't agree with. That's going to have to be something that 01:11:58
you talk to her individually about. And we will give the freedom of speech to everybody, including the City Council person. Thank 01:12:03
you for your comments. 01:12:08
Just to respond, I don't mean to be confrontational and what I'm about to say so. 01:12:14
It's my understanding and Amber, obviously you know way better than I do, but that Jake was working at a software company. 01:12:18
I'd just like to say I actually own a software company. 01:12:25
I think as of, I'm sorry, last week, I think, hold on, hold on. I want to tell you something really quick, but you don't 01:12:29
understand. I want to tell you something really quick. 01:12:33
When I said she does not speak for the Council. 01:12:38
What you're doing is you're addressing a public body about something we don't have any ability to control. And you're talking to 01:12:41
an individual on a personal matter that doesn't represent her as a City Council person. And while she may be your representative, 01:12:47
and you gave me, gave me mad, at some point you have the ability to vote for somebody else. And this is, and this and this is the 01:12:53
public process. But this conversation does not involve the business of this council. And so I need the conversation about this to 01:12:59
be. 01:13:05
Directed to the private conversations where they belong. And if you would like to talk to Amber afterwards, you can do that. If 01:13:12
she would like to make a comment during her personal time to talk, she may do that. Until that time, I'm going to stop this 01:13:17
comment. Thank you. Thanks, Amber. 01:13:22
As a side note, that that text came from Councilwoman. 01:13:32
Amber Rasmussen, I'm OK. Please raise your hand. Please raise your hand. 01:13:36
And refrain just because somebody states their title like I told you earlier. 01:13:43
That does not mean they speak for us. She holds the title. 01:13:49
Just like a a professor might say, I'm from this university, but they cannot speak for the full university. 01:13:53
All right. Mike, I apologize. Go ahead. 01:14:00
Indian Res. 01:14:04
I asked each one of you a very simple question last week. None of you answered me. 01:14:06
But the head of the Planning Commission did have the integrity. 01:14:15
To answer. 01:14:20
And I would like to ask that question again. 01:14:21
When did each one of? 01:14:25
1st. 01:14:29
About Vineyard and the Utah Element Port, thank you very much. 01:14:32
All right. It looks like we've come to our time. So we're going to go ahead and close the public session or the public hearing, 01:14:38
and we will move on to our agenda items. We'll start out with our mayor and council member reports. 01:14:44
Case. 01:14:51
Amber, did you want to make a comment? No. OK, Marty, Christy, OK, we'll move on to Eric. 01:14:54
OK. Thank you, Mayor. And council just wanted to give some updates from our different departments. So we'll start with the 01:15:01
building department. 01:15:05
The city has issued building permits for blocks five and six in the downtown area, which consists of 6/4 story apartment 01:15:10
buildings. We're currently reviewing commercial plan reviews for Kung Fu tea. 01:15:16
Office space in the industrial area and a Jersey Mike's that are close to submitting their plans for review. 01:15:23
We're finishing up five residential plan reviews for Iron Gate in the Cottonwood subdivisions. 01:15:31
From the finance. 01:15:38
The financial audit of the city is for the fiscal year ending June 30th, 2023 is coming to completion. 01:15:40
And expect a presentation from the auditors in January or February. 01:15:47
Budget season is quickly approaching so we'll have a detailed calendar distributed here soon for the Council. 01:15:54
From Parks and Rec. 01:16:03
We had our grand opening of the OR we have our grand opening of The Vineyard Connection. 01:16:05
Extension. 01:16:09
This is an event to continue the growth of Image Downtown with hopes to open the Vineyard Connector extension near the middle to 01:16:11
end of December. I think it's actually with with Public Works. I'll give you an actual date, I think it's the 23rd but. 01:16:18
Also the memorial site for Sienna. This project is in response to the Vineyard resident who recently passed away due to the tragic 01:16:26
vehicle accident that we heard about earlier. 01:16:31
And we've been in contact with Orem City to help locate a memorial site for Sienna. 01:16:36
I also wanted to let you know that the holiday tree lighting was quite a success. We had over 200 attendees. This was on November 01:16:43
20. 01:16:47
And the residents were able to go through 25 gallons of hot chocolate just. 01:16:52
From Public Works. 01:17:00
All the public, all the pedestrian flashers have been installed to include. 01:17:01
Along Grove Park at 400 N and then a flasher activated area lighting will be installed by January of this coming year. 01:17:06
The School zone flashers have been all updated to be fully on a remote system. 01:17:15
The trail along the lake that has had a constant water icing issue that has now been fixed by a contractor with the with the help 01:17:22
of the city staff. 01:17:28
Just as a heads up, as we enter winter season, snow removal operations are up and ready to roll. We've even had a couple 01:17:36
opportunities to use that. Just wanted to remind residents. 01:17:42
To be sure to clear the public streets when we have a snowfall so that our crews can get out and remove that snow effectively. 01:17:49
Multiple infrastructure master plans are underway and just wanted to kind of point what these are as I've heard a couple. 01:17:57
Interested parties talking about these. 01:18:06
A Sewer Master Plan, a Water Master Plan and a Transportation Master Plan that are all underway and should be completed during the 01:18:09
year 2024. 01:18:13
City water tank and booster station are nearly completed with the exception of some electrical components. We expect to have that 01:18:19
project completed no later than January of 2025. 01:18:25
And in the meantime, city residents and businesses will not see any reduction in the water service. 01:18:32
Quality or capabilities as those are being satisfied through Orem and Century to water. 01:18:37
Lastly, U dot vineyard connector. 01:18:43
I will be at 100% completion. 01:18:47
On December 22nd and we have a grand opening plan for. 01:18:51
The 23rd, Is that right? The Saturday? 01:18:57
Between 10 and noon. 01:19:00
That's all I have. Thank you. OK. Do we have anybody from the Planning Commission here that would like to give a report? 01:19:03
We were with you last week, so it doesn't need to be on anything that we really discussed, but you're welcome to Yeah, just real 01:19:10
quick. 01:19:13
All right. We're going to discuss some of the consent items. I do need somebody to go to the hall and let them know that we will 01:19:23
be discussing the consent items and that we are removing 6.7 in case they did not hear it. There were some people that were 01:19:29
concerned about it. Was there anything else that the council would like to pull off before they make a motion for the consent? 01:19:35
Yeah, I actually apologize. I don't know what 6.8 is. I. 01:19:44
Could someone briefly explain that to me? 01:19:49
Where is Morgan? 01:19:53
Morgan is not here. 01:19:54
I can. I can talk about it and everybody, you're going to hear more from me tonight than usual. Our planning director had a 01:19:57
medical emergency with his family and so he's. 01:20:01
I'll do the best I can on the on the things that he had been working on. There are agreements the city has with a number of 01:20:08
economic development entities. 01:20:13
And this? 01:20:18
Closer to the. 01:20:21
There are a number of agreements the city has with economic development. 01:20:24
Entities and. 01:20:28
This resolution is intended to allow the mayor and the city manager to renew. 01:20:33
And continue with those relations. 01:20:40
There is that in a nutshell. What it is? Do you have any further questions? 01:20:44
OK. 01:20:48
I can make a motion OK. Also, Daria had asked some questions on 6.2. Did anybody want to take that off for immediate discussion? 01:20:51
I'm sure. Go for it. OK. We can do it. Are you darling? There you are. 01:21:00
Yeah. OK. So I moved to approve the consent items as presented. 01:21:06
The removal of items 6. 01:21:11
.297 point 2 and 6.7. 01:21:14
OK, first by. 01:21:18
Second, by Tice, all in favor. Aye. All right, we'll go ahead and discuss 6.2 approval of the Bicycle Advisory Commission 01:21:20
amendments. I already had some questions about just the changes that had happened. I'm sorry, those were just recommended by the 01:21:27
Commission and some of the staff that we're talking about inviting more experts into the the Commission. 01:21:35
Did you have any other questions you want to come up to the microphone And I I mean I want to guess that Darius probably just 01:21:43
making sure that the bike commission's comfortable with the change. Is that, is that I mean I guess you need to come to the 01:21:47
microphone. 01:21:51
I'm assuming if the Commission did make this recommendation, they are comfortable with what they're deciding, but I'm just 01:22:04
wondering. 01:22:08
How would someone who lives in Monticello or Kanab or Richmond know exactly what's in your needs as far as the Bicycle Commission? 01:22:13
That's my concern. 01:22:19
Yeah, I think one of the things that they requested was that they wanted to learn more and have more expertise when it came to 01:22:26
actually planning. But as far as what Vineyard wants and needs, I think that's where the majority of them sits on the board itself 01:22:32
from our city. But is anybody here for a bicycle Commission? Go ahead. 01:22:37
Yeah, Kidron, I'm. I guess I'm not the chair anymore. I was just. 01:22:48
We just had a We just selected a new chair. But yeah, it's just. 01:22:53
To get more outside expertise, more. 01:22:58
Obviously there's people in Utah County or in in the area that are doing great things when it comes to bike infrastructure and 01:23:01
pedestrian safety and so we want to be able to learn from them. But yeah, when it comes to decisions that are made, we're going to 01:23:07
recommend the Vineyard. Residents on the Commission are going to be the ones to make those recommendations. 01:23:14
And present them to Council. The Bicycle Advisory Commission has no like legislative. 01:23:20
Decision making ability, we just provide recommendations to the City Council and then go from there. So yeah we're we're a 01:23:26
advisement group and Tyler is actually here because we spoke. Can somebody from that back, one of our staff or commissioners just 01:23:32
run out and get Tyler if he's out in the hall and he can't hear what's going on with us just so he can come and ask answer Gary's 01:23:37
question. 01:23:43
If he's still here. 01:23:51
Tyler Haroldson. 01:23:52
Just one of our staff members, please walk out. 01:23:55
Thank you so much, Bryce. You're on staff that you are wonderful. You were blocking the way of the staff. Thank you. 01:24:00
Well, just wait a second just to check if he's here. I mean, was your answer sufficient from Kayden? 01:24:08
I just want to keep it local. OK, OK. Any questions from the council on the specific item just because I sent people out? I'm just 01:24:15
going to wait and see if Tyler comes, just for a minute. 01:24:21
And actually now oh wait. 01:24:29
Line a discretionary. 01:24:32
Mayor one up here, could you answer my other question about the cemetery? 01:24:38
That'll be a non different item. So thanks Aria. No. Tyler's gone. OK, Thank you for your question. Council, can I get a motion to 01:24:44
approve that item or whatever you want to do with that? I move to approve consent. Item 6.2, Bicycle Advisory Commission 01:24:52
Amendments or Minutes 2023, Dash 31. OK, First by Marty, second, second by Amber. Any discussion All in favor? Aye. 01:25:00
All right, 6.7 Municipal code, amendment of appointment and removal of city officers. We'll go ahead and have Jamie present this. 01:25:09
So this is an amendment to city code that relates to the appointment and the removal of appointed officers. There are a few 01:25:19
officers in state code that were not included in the current city regulations. 01:25:25
And then the this. 01:25:32
Adds to that with all of the. 01:25:35
Officers of record for the city. So this is the city record of the finance director of the city treasurer, the city attorney and 01:25:39
the city engineer. 01:25:43
Clarifies that those of the appointments for any of those positions come from the mayor, are ratified by the City Council, and 01:25:47
then has removal procedures. 01:25:52
That are similar the mayor with the City Council ratification. 01:25:57
If the mayor doesn't agree with the removal decision, the City Council can make that removal by the unanimous. 01:26:01
Can you explain the difference between? 01:26:10
The governing body versus having a supermajority. 01:26:14
Is that my understanding that correctly, on a lot of these motions it has to be for council members? 01:26:18
On the on the removal language, that's how it's written that if the mayor's not part of the majority. 01:26:24
Than the other four council members can override the mayor. 01:26:30
And by unanimous vote of those four make the removal even over the mayors objection. 01:26:35
And could you also explain? I think we spoke about this earlier. 01:26:42
The communications department was what was the change down here? Yeah, so there there are a few different sections of code that 01:26:48
are affected by this. 01:26:52
Section 2.04 that's That was a placeholder for. 01:26:56
The general appointment of officers and employees and then section 2.08 relates to the appointment of the city manager, the 01:27:00
removal of the city manager, but also the function of the city manager and the mayor relative to each other. And there's. 01:27:09
Paragraph in. 01:27:18
It is. 01:27:20
Well, there's a, there's a section in that that relates to. 01:27:27
Few positions. 01:27:32
That report directly to the mayor and are hired directly by the mayor, but are not city officers. 01:27:34
It's a communications director and I think another communications staff member. And so there was a request, I think on your part 01:27:40
to change a comma to a semi colon so it was clear. 01:27:46
Which positions would? 01:27:52
Appointed by the council and then which positions report to the mayor and are just hired by the mayor but are not officers? That 01:27:55
was our discussion and I I think we should add that the powers haven't changed. It was just clarified according to the removal 01:28:01
process because the whole area was being clarified as far as the removal. Is that right? 01:28:08
That's correct. OK. 01:28:15
So you're saying that we've been performing this way all this time, we just didn't have it in code? 01:28:17
This is not a departure from the approval process that the city has followed, at least in the time that I've been. 01:28:23
The city attorney, there has not been language in the code about removal. We haven't ever confronted that issue, at least in the 01:28:29
time that I've been the city attorney. And so the thought was if we're going to be clear about how someone's appointed, we ought 01:28:34
to be clear about how someone's removed. 01:28:39
Yeah, I understand that. I think my concern is I'm seeing the cross outlines where we're changing it from the governing body, 01:28:44
which would be 3 votes. 01:28:48
Would make the decision like most of our votes do. And I know that there's exceptions to that rule, but I just don't understand 01:28:53
why there's an exception to this rule. And I would feel really comfortable just moving this to a different week if you'd like so 01:28:58
we have time to work on this and make it better. 01:29:02
Or at least have time for me to fully understand the. 01:29:08
The long term consequences because. 01:29:13
With whatever we have now, let's look at the dynamic of, you know, Mayor Julie Fulmer and the council that's sitting here and what 01:29:16
our intentions are. I just want to make sure that in the future, we don't know who's going to be on the council. We don't know who 01:29:22
our mayor is going to be. And I want to make sure that these rules are consistent and appropriate for long term. 01:29:28
Sammy, did you want to clarify anything on that or talk about the long term feel like the form of government doesn't change or 01:29:36
processes don't change and the the real power over the council is the same. Our government, our governing form remains the same. 01:29:42
Well it says right here it's changing now in certain areas. 01:29:48
Yeah, it's it's outlying, outlining a process. 01:29:56
So there's nothing. It's giving a process for how we do things and functions, so it's just clarifying the code. 01:30:00
Well, hold on, hold on. We're having a deliberation when you have an opportunity to make a comment or you agree with something you 01:30:08
can raise. 01:30:13
Go ahead. So Mayor, to your quit. I apologize. 01:30:18
To your question, Mayor, it doesn't change the form of government. It does. 01:30:23
State what the appointment and the removal process is for that I I don't want to. 01:30:27
My role is to advise the Council and to give you my best advice. 01:30:34
I don't vote and so I just want to be sensitive to the fact that Marty does, I don't and and it's her choice. 01:30:38
Procedurally, if it's something that you wanted to move to a later agenda, you could make a motion, see if the council supported 01:30:45
you, and it could be moved. 01:30:49
Otherwise, the mayor sets the agenda. 01:30:54
When the time comes to call for a question, you can vote. I think the question I was hoping you would answer, she had a question 01:30:57
on the long term effects of this and she was concerned about the long term effects of it. 01:31:02
And I think that it should be widely discussed. I think that it shouldn't just be something that we feel rushed and then making a 01:31:08
decision about, because I think that the powers and duties. 01:31:13
Of the council on the mayor important and I think that this to me if it's. 01:31:17
If it's not dramatically changing it if it's the. 01:31:23
What we've been performing. 01:31:28
I just don't know why there's so many things red. 01:31:30
Because that to me is a big change. And then the other side of it and this. 01:31:33
No, I agree with you. There is a process that's happening that there's been clarifications when I say that our government, our 01:31:38
form of government shouldn't change, the real, the real authority of the council didn't change was still A5 member with a quorum 01:31:44
of three. So all things are done by that standard. This is just a process that lets us know how we've been running our 01:31:50
appointments and now it clarifies how we can remove them. I think it's a good process for a lot of reasons It's it gives a lot of 01:31:56
comfort and solidifies. 01:32:02
Protections for our. 01:32:08
For our directors and our the appointments that are here. 01:32:11
But like I said, no real authority is changed in this. If you don't feel comfortable with it, that's OK. If you're asking me how I 01:32:15
feel about it, I feel comfortable with it. I think it's a simple terminology. 01:32:21
That I don't. Like I said, it doesn't change the actual. 01:32:28
Authority of the Governing Body. 01:32:32
So and I appreciate that you're comfortable with it. 01:32:35
If I would like to make a motion to postpone the vote so that you could help me become more comfortable with, that's great. 01:32:39
Can I get a second on Marty? 01:32:46
All right. Please just raise your hand if you agree. Can I say something? 01:32:53
Right, this is there's a lot of pressure on everyone here and I don't want booing. I feel like we're all listening to you and I am 01:32:58
trying to make a motion, and booing doesn't necessarily make my council members want to support me more. 01:33:04
So I would really appreciate if you guys were respectful to them. I'm asking them to support and giving me more time to understand 01:33:10
this and if they choose not to and they feel comfortable with it, that's their choice and I respect that on the council. 01:33:16
As much as it would disappoint. 01:33:23
OK, I don't have a second. Hold on. Oh, OK, hold on one. 01:33:27
Now that we're in this, do I need to take comment from the public? 01:33:33
You'll need to note for the record of the meeting. But there was no second. There wasn't a second. It sounds like there was not, 01:33:37
and so note that and then when you're prepared to receive. 01:33:41
Public comment on this. 01:33:46
I will ask everybody in the audience to please refrain from interrupting us when we're talking. You will have an opportunity on 01:33:48
the items on the agenda to speak. 01:33:52
But we need to make sure that the recorder has down what has occurred with the vote before we move to that point. 01:33:57
OK, Marty made a motion to continue this. There was no second because we're not going with all the things or because there's no 01:34:05
motion on what was currently addressed by some of the members of the public. There were some people that wanted to talk about 6.7. 01:34:12
Please come to the podium, state your name and if. 01:34:19
If you agree, raise your hand. 01:34:26
And do not repeat the comments please, so that we can move through the agendas on the business items on the agenda. 01:34:29
Over 18 months ago. 01:34:37
Jacob hold. 01:34:39
We found the with the alone and documents and letters OK. 01:34:44
And you denied they existed, Mayor, and that's when we started down that path. 01:34:48
That's what this entire campaign was in. Our original Vineyard Politico meeting was getting access and the oversight and the 01:34:56
ability of the council, and that's why the entire citizen process took place. 01:35:03
The entire process #3 on the Vineyard political platform. So then I'll answer your question. I'll let you continue. 01:35:12
I know. Let me get. 01:35:20
We also have it on record. Hold on, let me respond to you for a second and then I'd like to continue. OK, so. 01:35:22
This does not take any opportunity for you to put in an investigation. 01:35:30
To it changes the ability for me to vote because it would be a supermajority once seated if you wanted to fire somebody. 01:35:35
I don't need an extra vote. It's changing, it's it's delineating and specifying different from what it has. It wasn't written 01:35:42
before in code. 01:35:47
Let me explain it to you so that you understand it better. Everyone understands it is there. 01:35:53
I think everyone understands that it would take four and it was not written in code before that. 01:35:58
Yes, according to I know, but we're not going to be spoken down, right? 01:36:04
We're adding something to a. 01:36:08
Right. And constitutionally, it was not in there. And you guys, we just barely won an election. 01:36:10
On. 01:36:19
OK. And after winning the election, you're changing the rules on this? 01:36:21
When that investigation is placed, we already have Lehigh, we already have Provo. We already have American 4 constituencies. We 01:36:27
have the state forestry and fire and state land already on the record about what our city manager did. Have we been able to bring 01:36:33
the documents? No. Have we had a public hearing? No. We will do that in in January and I will have that ability. But by 01:36:40
handcuffing the ability to go from three votes to four changes radically, what happens? 01:36:46
Radically. 01:36:55
What I'm trying to explain to you is that you still maintain the same powers. 01:36:57
OK. 01:37:05
Somebody else can explain it to you, but no real powers change. I'm trying to clarify it to you so that you can understand no real 01:37:07
powers change, so you're actually your hands are not tied. 01:37:12
If you put an investigation, you can actually proceed if there's something wrong. If somebody has done something wrong, this does 01:37:17
not tie your hands. You don't actually need 4 votes. 01:37:22
Well, can I ask for a clarification? I guess what I don't understand is this. 01:37:28
You're asking us to postpone standard business for something that you don't understand. 01:37:36
You're. 01:37:42
Hold on. You are concerned that these things will occur. I am telling you it is not impede your ability to put an investigation or 01:37:43
fire somebody that's done something illegal. 01:37:48
And so there's no reason for us to stop that from happening. I mean, Jamie, if somebody has done something illegal and if somebody 01:37:54
wants to put in an investigation, that has nothing to do with this process, is that correct? We're not here today fighting for the 01:38:01
ability to have an investigation because one will be done. What we are fighting for is that the counting and the ability of the 01:38:07
power of the council over your authority is equal. That's what we're fighting for. So we're not talking about the investigation. 01:38:13
You're doing a word salad here. 01:38:19
What I've told you, and I'll try to be clear, is that this is a process that talks about the majority and how the majority works. 01:38:25
Your I understand. Jake, let me explain it to you. 01:38:32
But you are in the governing body. I have a 5 member council. 01:38:40
That means that free can always change the law, so your hands are never tied. Do you understand? So AM. 01:38:45
So why codify it to 4:00 to 1:00 if you're on the side? Because it gives you authority more. 01:38:52
There's nobody here. If you don't want it, you just change it. 01:39:00
That's the point. 01:39:05
OK, everybody, if you want to make a comment, you have to come to the microphone and state your name. 01:39:09
Come to the microphone and have it on record what you're saying. 01:39:16
On every item on the agenda there will be an opportunity for people to come to the microphone and make comments. 01:39:28
But if people speak over either the common. 01:39:35
Or the members of the council that are speaking, we'll have the sheriff remove you. 01:39:38
So that we can keep order in the meeting. 01:39:44
We don't want to do that. 01:39:46
So Please wait until that opportunity. 01:39:49
Do you? Do you have a different point than where? 01:39:52
I just wanted, I just wanted to read to you what's in the municipal code right now. I'm sorry David Delay in your resident. 01:39:56
I'm looking here in the Unicode section of our website. 01:40:02
And it's this section 2.810, Item East. 01:40:07
And here it says and this is regarding City Manager. This is the only one that specifies. So it's the line go with you know you 01:40:12
want to add others. 01:40:15
That makes sense probably, to do that, but it says the city manager self-serve at the place of the governing body and may be 01:40:20
removed anytime, with or without cause by a majority vote. 01:40:25
Of the Governing. 01:40:30
Studied, however, to the provisions and so forth. 01:40:32
And so it seems to me that by enacting. 01:40:35
This amendment, you would be increasing that. 01:40:39
Requirements. So it no longer would be a majority of the governing body, but it would be a supermajority, would take four of the 01:40:43
five. Jamie, do you have anything that you want to add on that? 01:40:50
No I don't I I think that is the change the the the code right now has states governing body please stop doing it. 01:40:58
So that that section of the code speaks to appointment and removal by the governing body period and then we have additional 01:41:08
contractual obligations. 01:41:12
Sure, there's an employment agreement with the city manager. 01:41:18
There you have to abide by the provisions of that agreement, and state law allows for that. 01:41:22
What this does is clarify the removal process for. 01:41:28
The city manager and all of the appointment officials with the. 01:41:32
On removal, it's a majority vote with the mayor. Or it would. 01:41:37
A vote of four if the mayor is not part of that majority. 01:41:41
So I understand that this is a change you specified and if I understand properly, it'll take four members of the City Council to 01:41:46
vote in favor of a removal the current, the current, if we accept this amendment. 01:41:53
If not, then it looks like it's the majority vote of the governing body, which I have interpreted as three of the five. 01:42:00
Is that a correct assessment of that? 01:42:07
I I just read what the changes are. 01:42:11
OK, so. 01:42:14
So thank you for the clarification. 01:42:16
David, did you feel like you? I feel that understanding. I understand it. I feel like it's also a paragraph. 01:42:19
Thank you. 01:42:27
OK, all right, Council, how do you feel? Because this is up to you. 01:42:28
I think, I think that we've heard the comment and that we know that you guys don't want it. I just want one clarification. If 01:42:37
there's somebody that wants to say something where they do want it, you can go ahead and otherwise just raise your hand that you 01:42:41
don't want it. 01:42:45
I just want one clar. 01:42:51
Everyone knows what this is this is about. 01:42:54
A previous Council cannot bind the hands of the current Council correct on this statute, an ordinance, a future. 01:42:58
I'm asking the attorney, so if if come January 1st. 01:43:09
Three of us come back to change the ordinances. 01:43:13
And we want to change it back to go back to since there wasn't a change tonight apparently. 01:43:16
I'll answer your question when when the new council members are seated. 01:43:22
The council will be the governing body for the city, right and and a. 01:43:27
Council cannot find the current council on this decision and ordinance, right. Future council has the same right this council does 01:43:31
to change the past city ordinances. That's that's what I was explaining to you. That's why I said no real power has changed. And 01:43:38
even though you're a 5 member council, you always have the majority to change the law. So I'm going to end our comments on this 01:43:44
because we understand. Yeah, go ahead. 01:43:50
Does it take a supermajority to change this ordinance or is it just the majority? No, it's just that majority. OK, OK. All right. 01:43:57
Can I get a? 01:44:06
Are you're closing public hearing? It's not a public hearing. You're closing public comment. 01:44:08
Yes, because we understand what the concerns are, we understand we are now in deliberation for it. 01:44:13
OK. Would any other council feel like they need more to understand that the people here do not want us? Or would you like to talk 01:44:23
more? 01:44:27
OK. Would anybody else like to hear additional public comment? Would you like to hear additional public comment? 01:44:31
You are judged by your last, worst act. 01:44:36
How many are we talking? I don't want to be here till midnight. 01:44:42
Now you need a second. 01:44:49
So. 01:44:52
Not about. 01:44:55
Minus about supporting. 01:44:57
Councilman that called for. 01:44:59
And the silence from everybody else. 01:45:03
Volumes of how you believe. I want to support Marty for having the courage to step forward and explain. Please raise your hand. We 01:45:07
need you to stop clapping. Thank you. 01:45:13
I live in Vineyard. I've been there for three years. Good morning. Thank you. 01:45:21
At first I think all right. 01:45:27
I need. 01:45:29
Please give me a motion, whatever you want to do. Madam Mayor, I move that we approve, 6.7 stated. 01:45:32
Sheriff, would you like to remove some people? 01:45:40
Well, if they don't shut up, then we need to remove them. 01:45:44
All right, Tyson, we're in the middle of the motion. Please continue. 01:45:50
That we approve the motion understanding that the new Council can reverse this motion in two weeks. 01:45:54
All right. Can I get a second? 01:46:01
2nd. 01:46:04
This is done by ordinance. I'm just going to do a roll call size. 01:46:07
Amber, yay. Marty, Christy. OK. Thank you. We can go on to our. 01:46:11
Next agenda items and. This brings us to. 01:46:18
Public hearing this is 9.1. Jamie, will you go ahead and introduce this item? 01:46:22
So item 9.1 and I'm filling in here for Morgan Brim Morgan's, our Planning Director. 01:46:34
He had a medical emergency on his way. 01:46:41
I've been asked to introduce the item briefly. 01:46:44
There. 01:46:46
There has been an. 01:46:50
Buy into the Utah Inland. 01:46:52
To create an inland port project area. 01:46:54
Within the municipal boundaries. And so the mayor has invited the executive director from the Inland Court to come and speak a 01:46:58
little bit about that process, what it entails. 01:47:03
What it would mean for the? 01:47:10
And then an opportunity for the council to educate itself through that conversation. 01:47:12
I was just asked if I had my bulletproof vest on. I really hope I don't need one. 01:47:16
Let me just take a step back. State your name, please. Yes, my name is Ben Hart. I'm the executive director of the Utah and Port 01:47:24
Authority and. 01:47:28
So, and I'll speak to both the crowd into the council. 01:47:32
Look, folks, and I'm not from your community. 01:47:38
And but one of my jobs professionally, In fact, not only professionally, but also academically. 01:47:43
Is to understand communities and regions, particularly through an economic perspective. 01:47:49
A couple weeks ago, last month, I had a chance to bring my son Spencer. He's a great kid. They had the special needs like football 01:47:56
tournament down here in Vineyard and so I had a chance to. 01:48:02
Had a chance to ride front Runner into your beautiful station and to walk up 800 N. 01:48:08
You get a feel for a community when you walk through a community. 01:48:14
So whether you want it or not. 01:48:18
Give you some advice and what I see happening in vineyard. 01:48:21
I think this is a community that, more than anything else, is growing really, really fast. 01:48:26
And I'm going to say way too fast. 01:48:32
You are in the fastest growing county. My guess is you might be the fastest growing city. 01:48:35
In the fastest growing state in the country. 01:48:40
What I've heard tonight and what I've seen is I've walked through your community. 01:48:44
Is you are struggling to come to terms with who you are as a city. 01:48:49
The Inland Port Authority is not going to be the reason that this community tears itself apart. 01:48:55
We won't. I won't allow it and I'm not going to bring it to my board. 01:49:02
So let me just say conclusively that regardless of what happens tonight and what decision this Council chooses to make. 01:49:07
If the will of the council choose or changes a month from now. 01:49:14
There is no inland port moving forward in Ven. 01:49:19
Understand. 01:49:25
OK. Can I move forward now? Perhaps give some education as to what we actually do? 01:49:26
Because I think it's been misrepresented in the community the last couple weeks, if that's fair. 01:49:33
Now let me also say that tonight we are not creating an inland port in vineyard. That's not what we're here to do. 01:49:37
What is allowed for and what is? 01:49:45
Statutorily required. 01:49:50
Is that a community? 01:49:52
Must give their permission for the inland port to come in. 01:49:54
Again, and I want to reiterate this, if the will of the council changes over the next month and I've had a chance to speak with 01:50:00
Councilman elect pulled away on this, I understand his position. 01:50:04
If the will of the Council changes, we will not be moving forward with an end report. 01:50:10
The process from. 01:50:16
With an adoption, should the Council choose to pass this resolution tonight? 01:50:20
It's the start of a. 01:50:25
Our process is that we then come in, we identify what the public purpose actually is. 01:50:28
I'm going to share this story. I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but I'm going to share it anyway. 01:50:36
I judged my time, my drive time tonight to get into Utah County and to get into Orem. 01:50:40
I thought 45 minutes was going to be plenty. Guess what? Wasn't nearly enough. I don't know how people stay in that traffic day 01:50:47
after day, week after week, year after year. It's insane. 01:50:52
What I've heard tonight. 01:50:59
We don't, We don't like. 01:51:01
And yet we're going to continue to put everything on cars. 01:51:04
And I understand there's feelings of we want to grow the right way. I hear that as well. But the whole notion of we don't want to 01:51:08
keep putting everything on cars. Utah is overly dependent on our vehicles. 01:51:15
If you have not figured that out after this meeting to this group of folks tonight, let me tell you, a lot of the problems that 01:51:22
I've heard about are too many cars coming through your community. 01:51:26
Too much volume. Utah has a higher percentage of trucks on the road than any other state in the country. 01:51:31
We also send more of our cargo outside of the state of Utah. 01:51:40
Than we like to admit Eric Cargo for example, we send 92% of air cargo out of our state on a truck. 01:51:44
As opposed to actually being able to send it within our community, Utah is horribly underserved when it comes to multimodal 01:51:52
transportation. 01:51:56
So let me talk about what the port is actually doing. We have two missions. I have a beautiful slide show. Not going to show it 01:52:00
because I don't think it's relevant. 01:52:04
But what I am going to talk about, you can see our front side is beautiful. If we want to go to the next slide, I'm not sure who's 01:52:09
got the. 01:52:12
But let me. 01:52:16
What our goals are are two. 01:52:18
And this is absolutely related to growth in both. 01:52:21
One, we can't continue to put everything on the road. If we do, we're going to fail future generations. 01:52:25
We have to become a much more sophisticated multimodal state. 01:52:31
Or else we're going to continue to put more crap in the air. Pollution in the air, We're going to leave behind a lot of 01:52:36
communities economically. That's the reality. 01:52:40
So you have a choice in terms of how you're going to grow as a community. Are you going to continue to rely on the status quo? 01:52:44
Or the 2nd. 01:52:52
Which I believe is absolutely critical for communities. 01:52:54
Is Are you going to understand who you want to be? 01:52:57
This struggle for identity. 01:53:01
I'm telling you, you let issues rip you apart. This community is never going to get to be where any of you want it to be. I 01:53:03
promise, I've seen that happen. 01:53:07
All up and down the Wasatch Front. It's really unfortunate. Suburban sprawl is an absolute problem in the state of Utah. You want 01:53:12
to know why it happens? Because people can't work together. 01:53:17
Dividing lines start to occur. I'm going to tell this entire community you don't get along. 01:53:23
You're headed that same dire. 01:53:28
That's what I've heard tonight. 01:53:31
So I. 01:53:32
You want to come together and be able to fix these issues. Please do. 01:53:34
Be willing to put down some of your swords and be willing to work together in terms of what you all want for your community. 01:53:38
If the inland port can help you get there. 01:53:45
If we can create better multimodal transportation. 01:53:48
And that means that rail has to be part of your future. I know that's not a popular dynamic here in the city. 01:53:52
But the other part of this too, is you can't keep sending your kids into Salt Lake to work. You have to have good economic base. 01:53:58
Here within the county. 01:54:05
We've relied on tech. We love tech here in Utah County. The reality is you have to diversify into other types of economic growth. 01:54:06
If you don't, then you're going to see that continued economic sprawl that's destroyed so many other parts of the state. 01:54:14
You have to diversify what you have locally. That's what the inland port is about. How do we create multimodal transportation? 01:54:22
And second, how do we create better economic growth within the within the community? 01:54:31
Anybody that's here to tell you that we are here to destroy the wetlands or to destroy your quality of life, that is absolutely 01:54:37
not correct. 01:54:40
And for us, I think the most important thing that we can offer and that we can help with is helping you achieve your long term. 01:54:45
Growth goals. 01:54:52
And I'm going to tell you got him like look around. I think it's obvious to see that you guys are growing like crazy. If if you, 01:54:55
if you can't grow the way that is going to best serve future generations, you're just going to end up in the same stalemate. So 01:55:01
mayor and council, it's your choice if you want to move forward with this resolution. It's up to you. 01:55:07
And if you choose to postpone it, we're fine with that if you pass it and a future. 01:55:13
Council decides to. 01:55:20
Then that we will respect the will of the Council. 01:55:23
In any situation, then I can't speak for the full council, but I think we were just excited to learn what an inland port, what is 01:55:26
and isn't. And as we've been exploring this together with you, we kind of just want to be here options. I didn't plan on holding 01:55:34
the public hearing tonight. As we've said, it may or may not happen because I can't vote for the whole body, but I expect that the 01:55:42
majority of the council wants to just learn about it and understand it. And so that's kind of what we're hoping for. 01:55:49
And you know, a lot of people are feeling a lot of passion about it, but I think that's why we wanted to do this, so that we 01:55:57
could. 01:56:00
Understand it. Well, let me walk you through a couple slides and if we can go to the next slide. So let me just explain and what 01:56:03
our goals are in terms of what we bring. So what it is, if you think about the point of the mountain, you think about a lot of 01:56:09
entities that are coming together to serve one economic area, specifically the point of the mountain. How do you bring that same 01:56:15
concept and bring a lot of different resources to help communities grow? 01:56:20
And So what we bring is an infrastructure bank that the city would have access to help with different types of growth needs. 01:56:26
We also bring the ability to create tax increment. Tax increment is tax based property taxes that ultimately are derived from a 01:56:33
specific geographic area. We are not going to take any funds out of your community. Everything will stay locally within Vineyard, 01:56:39
everything will stay within the project area. For those who worry that there's an existing RDA, these can layer on top of each 01:56:46
other and you can reinvest both. 01:56:52
Not only the existing tax increment that other available resources as well. So in terms of being able to create a process that 01:57:01
allows you again to reinvest and tap into resources to help with growth. 01:57:07
That's absolutely what we're about. If we go to the next slide real quick, let me just say our first area is in the Northwest 01:57:13
quadrant. I'll just use that as a really quick example. That area we're looking at how volume rolls in and out of that community, 01:57:18
the Northwest water and Salt Lake City. 01:57:24
And as a secondary source of strength as well, the types of jobs that that community wants. 01:57:30
So biotech, you know research based advanced manufacturing, Boeing is in that area, L3, Harris, Northrop Grumman, BD Bio, Mary 01:57:36
you. I mean it's an area of economic strength. We don't have enough of those and that's why we're sending more and more people to 01:57:43
work in Salt Lake City. How do we create areas, particularly industrial economic strength in other places along the Wasatch Front? 01:57:50
How do we make sure that volume is flowing in the right ways? If we can go to the next slide, again, just an aerial shot. Oh, 01:57:57
sorry, next one. 01:58:01
Aerial shot of what the northwest quadrant looks like. That is 1 area if we can go to the next. 01:58:06
These are our existing areas, so these are communities that we have already worked with to create existing project areas. Spanish 01:58:10
Fork, obviously just down the street, Golden Spike and Box, Elder County, Willow Valley, 21 Wells and Grantsville. 01:58:17
Burke is the one in Spanish Fork, Central Utah, Agra Park, Mineral Mountain Iron. 01:58:25
And and just if you can go to the next slide, whoever's controlling? 01:58:30
But, and let's go to the next one. 01:58:34
So what I'm going to say here just in conclusion. 01:58:37
Look, we want to be something that can help the community. If we're not, we don't need to be here. 01:58:41
If we're something that continually helped bringing the resources of the state to try and create a place of economic strength for 01:58:46
the community to help you with some of your growth needs, we're all about that. That's what the Inland port represents. 01:58:52
Not just growth, but how do we grow in the right ways? I know you're going to hear a lot of different things about the port, and 01:58:58
I'm sure you already have, but at its heart, that's what we're trying to do. The county or excuse me, the community council, 01:59:04
whatever version and whatever current form is going to be able to choose and bind the inland port to act in a way that they feel 01:59:10
appropriate. We've done that in several other communities through interlocal agreements. 01:59:15
And and so. 01:59:22
I know I'm not going to convince everyone here tonight. I hope I can at least educate the council and give you a sense for what we 01:59:25
do and how we can help. 01:59:28
So I read a little bit about the financing that goes into this and I understand how it layers. Can you talk a little bit about the 01:59:33
controls as far as if you weren't to enter into a resolution like this, would our land vest or would you use that zoning from when 01:59:40
we start the agreement and then it kind of changes or how does that work? No. So we don't have any land use authority. The city 01:59:47
will maintain zoning throughout the process. So there's no vesting if you choose to go from M1 to M2 or from M1 to R1, It's 01:59:54
totally up to the City Council. 02:00:01
So there's no vestige of rights at the time of adoption and I do want to stress this, it's not the City Council that will adopt 02:00:08
the project area, it is the Utah and the Port Authority. 02:00:12
So the Board ultimately has to go through a two cycle process. Both of them will allow for public comment and public hearings. And 02:00:18
then ultimately what we do is totally defer to the local community with regards to land use. But then again, our approach with 02:00:25
regards to the financing is making sure that all of the money is reinvested back into the community how the community wants. 02:00:32
And so we're not coming in saying this is a predisposed, you have to do this. We want to make sure that we're growing in ways that 02:00:40
are targeted around smart transportation growth. 02:00:45
And also smart economic growth and we have added a third one as of late that is also environmental stewardship. 02:00:50
And is it still in effect until the project area is adopted and then it starts having considerations? Or how does that 02:01:31
relationship work long term? 02:01:35
No, we're here to help the community achieve their goals. And so as we're working through what is a 25 or 40 year partnership, we 02:01:41
do have a baseline that we established up front. But what it is, is we come back for an annual review and I'll tell you right now 02:01:47
we do a weekly meeting with our cities as well. So when we're talking with cities, it's what are you looking for? Do you want to 02:01:53
attract the right type of business to your community? And I'll tell you, I see a really strong residential base in Vineyard, I 02:01:59
mean to keep. 02:02:05
Taxes from skyrocketing having into an industrial base is really going to help and it's not just about jobs, but it's also about 02:02:11
helping develop a good quality of life in terms of tax structure etcetera. So you and I'm taking all the questions, but you kind 02:02:17
of mentioned that there were several different projects. 02:02:23
Are there different types of projects? I know a lot of it is based around rail, but there's different modes. I thought I read 02:02:29
something about an Agra, like an Agra project cite or yeah, it's totally it. It's the behest of the county. Or excuse me in this 02:02:35
case, the city, Niagara Park was part of Juab County, so they gave us the direction there. In this case, it's totally at the 02:02:42
direction of the city. So is the city wants to see certain types of growth? 02:02:48
And we've done growth related to trails up in. 02:02:54
North of Boxelda, Garland, we've worked on some economic projects up there. We really have the flexibility we feel like to come in 02:03:01
and again help to reinvest in the right. 02:03:06
Somebody mentioned this earlier, but it's not just about development. Development can happen. 02:03:11
It's about the right kinds of development and it's about making sure that you don't overpower in your community. 02:03:16
That's not what we're about. So we want to make sure that whatever we're doing is right size and is in accordance with how this 02:03:22
city is developing. OK. And just a little bit extra, could you just kind of briefly explained a little bit more about the 02:03:27
finances? So we have an RDA, they're pretty similar. We understand they can layer, but what are their opportunities are different 02:03:33
from the RDA that you guys have? 02:03:39
Well, one, access to the infrastructure bank. This is important and it's an area we receive criticism. I'm going to say it's 02:03:45
probably just criticism. 02:03:49
The City Council acts as the voice for all downstream tax entities. 02:03:55
So once the City Council and actually passes a resolution, it actually binds all of the downstream taxing. 02:04:00
So that can't happen just from the City Council. It has to go through our board process ultimately to be created. But over a 25 02:04:08
year period it would lay overlay over the top of the existing Rea and none of the money that's been invested in for the cleaning 02:04:15
of that would be lost again, all of it is reinvested back into. 02:04:21
This area. 02:04:30
Well, to give you just some insights on what we're doing, we recently, I mean we've been planning and growing so fast. 02:04:31
But we recently started kind of looking more deeply into the type of businesses and industry we want to do on the east side of our 02:04:39
development. This is kind of in the project area we were looking in and we started planning. 02:04:45
A long time ago, but we're getting to this point where I think we're, we want more discussion and so we pushed that off into the 02:04:54
New Year. 02:04:56
So council from me, I I feel like since we push that off into the new year, it would be really great to kind of wrap our heads 02:05:00
around what that looks like and then keep, you know, we can keep having conversations, but that's where I feel like we need to be. 02:05:07
And then? 02:05:14
Also, we really understand the RDA and we have a lot of good resources right now, but we're always looking for opportunities to 02:05:15
make sure the vision of the city. 02:05:20
Goes forward. So I don't think we need to have a public hearing tonight from my perspective because I don't think we can have 02:05:25
meaningful discussion on this. 02:05:29
I feel like the public and the conversations that we need to have are just a little bit deeper than this, but do you guys have 02:05:34
questions up front about anything you want then to go find for us so that we can keep examining it as a council or anything? 02:05:42
Anything for future discussions? I had one thing I wanted to clarify, so you mentioned. 02:05:51
If a council passed. 02:05:57
And it still goes to your board for approval. So that wouldn't actually that's not a motion to actually have it work. It's to get 02:05:59
in line I would assume to get approval and there's a long line, I mean the the communities that I showed you earlier. 02:06:07
Quite frankly, just the ones that have been approved, right, I don't. 02:06:14
You should jump in line just to jump in line, right? And I think he. 02:06:18
What would that be a long time? It could be, I I mean, we don't know. I mean it could be late 2024, it could be 2025. 02:06:24
It's so it's something that we just have to review and make sure that it goes through the right process. We just our staff is 15 02:06:32
people we just can't go through and write 25, you know project area planning budgets. We've got to be methodical and use our 02:06:40
resources wisely. So thank you, I I appreciate the discussion and thank you for the questions you brought up Mayor. 02:06:47
We're OK with that. 02:07:29
And I don't even know if we'd be ready by then just because we're going through our development process, but maybe. 02:07:30
But this, yeah, we're always looking for these discussions and opportunities, but this is, this is great. Do you have any other 02:07:38
questions for us or that we should be prepared for if we want to come back and have more discussions at some later point? No, I 02:07:43
think just having a very clear understanding of where you want this development to go, I mean. 02:07:49
Is an industrial based, you know something that you want? How do you want to design that? What are you know? You talk about design 02:07:56
guidelines, What other implementations? Potentially zoning overlays? 02:08:01
But we still have work to do. I just want to strengthen the public hearing and then allow it to be re noticed in the future 02:08:38
instead of continuing it. 02:08:43
OK. Thank you for your presentation. 02:08:49
So procedurally mayor, since it's noticed for. 02:08:56
Where it's noticed for a public hearing, you either have to. 02:09:02
Hold the public hearing or. 02:09:06
To table the item and then, so the public's aware, there is a process. 02:09:08
And then mentioned that a little bit that relates to the Inland Court approvals. There's also a process when the city takes it up 02:09:15
that it has to be done by public hearing. So if and when the council. 02:09:21
Decided to take this up in the next year. 02:09:27
And that's not a guarantee even that it will, but it'll be re noticed. And then there will be a public hearing at that time at the 02:09:30
City Council meeting. OK, I need a motion then to table it. I move that we table this item to the pleasure of the new council when 02:09:36
they come in. 02:09:41
Second OK, First by tie, Second by Chrissy. All in favor, Aye. Any opposed? OK, we'll go ahead and move into 9.2. Discussion and 02:09:47
action. You can leave the right of way and land donation and development agreement. 02:09:54
Will you be presenting this? 02:10:01
Thank you, Jamie. 02:10:05
There are two items back-to-back that relate to development of the Geneva, the former Geneva steel property this one relates to. 02:10:06
The Geneva East side, there was a public hearing. 02:10:20
Yeah, hold on. Can you let them know that we've moved on to the next agenda point and then let them know to go and talk out there? 02:10:24
Thank you. 02:10:28
OK, this, this is item 9.1. I'll try to speak up so everybody can hear me. 02:10:54
Nine point. 02:11:00
Or a win 9.2 Thank you 9.2. 02:11:01
On the December 6th meeting, there was a public hearing held on this item. 02:11:05
It's been separated at the request of the developer from one agreement to two agreements. The first agreement is a right of way 02:11:09
and land donation agreement and the second agreement is the development agreement. They accomplished 2 separate things. The 02:11:15
development agreement entitles the developers right to develop the property. 02:11:20
According to the land use regulations and the agreements that are in place presently. 02:11:26
The Right of way and land donation agreement donates land to the city for the right of way. 02:11:31
For a future Mill Road and then 5 acres for a future fire station. 02:11:36
And I'll just note there was a public comment about a cemetery and how. 02:11:42
How and whether land would be donated for a cemetery? 02:11:46
This land donation agreement is done at the request of the applicant, in this case the developer of this property. 02:11:50
And it doesn't pro. 02:11:58
The dedication or the donation of. 02:12:00
Land in the future. It just identifies the two items that are in the agreement and it's done for a mixture of making sure the city 02:12:04
has that before the improvements in the planning for the improvements takes place. 02:12:10
And then there's the reason on the developer side that they make the donation. 02:12:17
When it's helpful to their financing and the overall structure of the of the project? 02:12:23
OK. Jamie, since we talked about that stipulation being added last time, but we didn't actually vote on it because we moved it, do 02:12:30
we need to add that stipulation back into this? 02:12:35
Was that did we put that on that this item, this, this has been modified into the two agreements they're they're in the packet. 02:12:40
I've reviewed everything. 02:12:46
Portion of that. I don't believe the cemeteries in this. 02:12:52
OK. I think what we talked the fire station that wasn't in it before the cemeteries, I think you know we talked about the ability 02:12:55
to do the fire station, but talked about producing land use and exceptions for that in the with the cemetery, is that right? 02:13:03
I don't know where Morgan. 02:13:11
Right now, yeah. 02:13:13
And City Council Pete Evans. 02:13:18
So the cemetery, I didn't specifically put the cemetery in because there wasn't really a good place to put it. 02:13:20
But we're happy to stipulate that we'll work in good faith. 02:13:27
Try to identify a location for a cemetery in the future, if there's an appropriate place to put one. Yeah, OK, I think that's fine 02:13:31
for me. I can just add that using exactly the language you just you just stated. Does anybody have anything additional from the 02:13:37
last conversation that we had? Any further deliberation needed? If not, I need a motion. 02:13:43
There I move We approve the two agreements land donation and development agreement with Anderson Geneva LLC with the addition as 02:13:50
noted by. 02:13:55
Fiona, OK, first by tie, second, second by Amber. I'm just going to do it by roll call ties. Amber, I, I, Marty, Christy. OK, 02:14:00
great. We'll go ahead and move on to 9.3 discussion action, First Amendment to the Geneva West side property. 02:14:09
Item 9.3 is an amendment to a property land donation and development agreement that was first entered into by the city and the 02:14:19
developer on May 13th, 2020. 02:14:24
The original agreement identified Landon donated by the developer for certain public improvements and participation by the RDA on 02:14:29
those public improvements. 02:14:34
This amendment does 4 things. Primarily, it separates the tax increment collection period into two phases. 02:14:39
It authorizes the RDA to reimburse the developer for parking costs. 02:14:46
The developer donates the Lake Promenade property to the city. 02:14:50
And the developer donates public roadways throughout the project. 02:14:54
A question may come up why we held a public hearing on the first agreement and not a public hearing on this amendment. 02:14:59
And the answer to that is that. 02:15:05
First set of agreements Effects of land. 02:15:08
Right that the developer holds and that the city controls. 02:15:11
And where land use is involved, there's a public hearing that's required. As a part of that, the land use component to the West 02:15:15
Side property land Emission Development agreement was done in 2020. 02:15:21
This is an administrative action, not a land use action, and so the amendment. 02:15:27
Can be adopted without. 02:15:34
OK. Are there any questions by the council on this item? 02:15:36
So, OK, the public in the hall was notified. Were there any questions from the audience? 02:15:42
9.3 Do you have a question? 02:15:55
Come on up. Can you set your name and where you're from please? Tiffany Stevens from Vineyard? Can you clarify exactly the RDA 02:16:01
firms will be used for this, the amount? 02:16:06
And if this can be tabled for later so that the citizens can have time to look into the RDA funds. So I think that in this recent 02:16:12
election was very clear most of the citizens didn't agree with using taxpayer funds to support development of the high density 02:16:17
projects that are we coming up. So can you clarify that for me? 02:16:23
So I had to run in here from work someone. 02:16:30
No, that's a good question and the applicant may have some information on this as well. But when RDA funds are used to reimburse. 02:16:33
A developer for activities, what you're really talking about our future tax revenues generated by the development. 02:16:43
So the property as it sits. 02:16:50
Is not actively used, it's fellow man. 02:16:53
And so there is. 02:16:57
Significant tax revenue that is derived from the property once it's developed there will be and so you take an increment from 02:16:59
that. 02:17:03
And you can use that increment to pay for the public amenities and the public features. 02:17:07
Of that development. So in this case it's it'll pay for things like roadways, parking, sewer. 02:17:15
Strong water infrast. 02:17:23
And then the way the city structures that is before a specific reimbursement is authorized. 02:17:25
The Redevelopment Agency. 02:17:32
The members of the Redevelopment Agency board are the City Council. They just wear different hats When they make those decisions. 02:17:37
The mayor becomes the board chair and the council members become board members. 02:17:42
The RDA board overseas the use of those fund. 02:17:48
Enters into a reimbursement agreement that will state specifically. 02:17:52
Those items are reimbursement agreements are only contemplated when the developer makes an application. They get a cost estimate. 02:17:56
They include that cost estimate as part of the application and then the cities participation and that is established at that time. 02:18:05
There are policy discussions about what that participation level can be, so it's not always the same. In every reimbursement 02:18:13
agreement there can be negotiation that takes place. 02:18:18
For some items it's. 02:18:25
If the city has a strong interest, for example, in having contaminated property developed, it may participate at a higher, higher 02:18:27
level for that cleanup effort. 02:18:32
If it's a development, that's going to occur regardless, but the city wants enhanced. 02:18:37
Public amenities. 02:18:43
It can participate in a way that it feels. 02:18:45
Encourage or entice the developer to make those amenities better than what they would be otherwise. 02:18:48
So that's all to say there's a negotiation at that point in time as to how the city wishes to participate, at what level the city 02:18:53
wants to participate and then you look at the tax revenues as they would come. 02:19:00
And you can amortize that agreement where the. 02:19:06
Or the RDA routers participation? 02:19:12
That reimbursement can be spread out over years when. 02:19:16
Have actual tax revenues come in so the RDA doesn't make any commitment to pay money that it hasn't received. 02:19:20
From that development, you wait for the development to occur and then it comes in. 02:19:27
So can I summarize what you just said, just like what I got out of it? 02:19:30
We're not committing to paying any tax, RDA tax dollars right now. We're committing to the agreement to sooner or later pay like 02:19:35
we're not. We don't have a number right now. You're not committing to the amount. The agreement does affect the collection period. 02:19:43
So the RDA establishes collection periods and within that period. 02:19:51
Is when you can bring in the tax revenue and use the tax revenue for those. 02:19:56
Public purposes or to have the development happen. 02:20:03
And this separates the collection period into two phases. 02:20:07
Typically when that request is made, it's the developer saying it's going to take time. 02:20:12
To create the. 02:20:17
Get the returns and pay for the reimbursement. So you separate it to allow it to be available when they need it. So we're just 02:20:19
talking about when we're triggering certain sections, creating a smaller section so that section can be triggered at a certain 02:20:25
time that's correct for the public. I I think I speak on a lower level. 02:20:30
The RDA has different zones and we can trigger them and start them and they go on for is it 30 years. 02:20:37
25 and so we can trigger different sections and start them to the 25 year. 02:20:44
Tax, they are the 25 years of accepting the tax base and then using that into the RDA starts then. So we're not starting the RDA 02:20:51
in an area that doesn't have anything built that won't bring in revenue. So this is just. 02:20:58
Splitting up a section so that we consider one side of it and not the other. 02:21:04
Did I miss that part? That's correct. It splits into two phases, so you can use one, not the other, and you can sequence it in the 02:21:10
right way. 02:21:14
And then it adds that one of the eligible things that the funds can be used for is to create parking. 02:21:17
That was not in the original agreement, so it adds one more. 02:21:26
Public need. 02:21:29
That can be filled through the use of these RDA funds. And as you guys trigger these different sections, how do you notify the 02:21:31
public and do you have public hearing and is there a comment and input? And you know, people oppose the RDA funds at that point. 02:21:37
Like what is what happened? Yeah, it it can only be done in a public meeting of the Redevelopment Agency and those are noticed on 02:21:43
the public website the same way City Council meetings are noticed. 02:21:50
So if you go to the Utah Public Notice website, you can subscribe to notices. 02:21:57
For the city and then I know the city does. 02:22:01
Notice subscription service. So if you give them your e-mail, you'll get an e-mail every time there's this public city meeting. 02:22:05
For everyone in the room, getting them into my e-mail is very helpful. Just subscribing on the website and I will say the city's 02:22:13
subscription. 02:22:17
Way better than the state subscription. It's active, it's timely. 02:22:22
We just had an election that was clear. I mean the second seat was one in the first round of ranked choice voting. It it wasn't 02:23:28
even, it was very clear. So. 02:23:32
Your constituencies upset, they need you guys to actually hear them and vote the way that they're telling you to. That's what our 02:23:37
representative is. And if you have differences of opinion, a wonderful voice, then you are also a citizen with your own vote. But 02:23:43
when you have a majority of people telling you like this is what we want. 02:23:48
So I hope that you guys are mindful of that and you start voting in that. 02:24:55
You know that measure and thanks for the explanations. Great. All right, thank you. Any comments from the Council? 02:25:00
Yeah, I just have one more. Hold on one second, please. 02:25:07
All right. Go ahead. 02:25:11
Yeah, just recognizing the cultural shift, right with the election of hearing the. 02:25:14
Overwhelming not support for Utah City. 02:25:19
The R. 02:25:22
Is public money. 02:25:24
And so with the public saying do we want to support this and understanding it there? 02:25:26
Isn't as a RDA council and City Council with that $100 million that we have by a project by project basis, we can say? 02:25:31
Is this a public need to use? 02:25:41
Or is this not still on? What's going on tonight? Right? 02:25:44
So we haven't committed funds, but we can still in this whole zone go and say, you know what do we like that? 02:25:50
Is that is or we, hey, they're going to collect taxes and this total dollar amount is going to be here and it has to be spent. 02:25:56
I guess I would. 02:26:03
It's a little bit more complicated than that. 02:26:05
Well, it's $100 million. So we got to know it. We got to understand like I'm not, I'm not saying it's unknown, but I'm saying in 02:26:07
fact is it is known. 02:26:11
But the RDA funds are committed at different times and to different projects and in different ways. And so to fully understand the 02:26:15
answer to your question, I think we'd probably have to sit down. 02:26:22
And on a project by project basis of is this of public value and the merits of that. And so that's one of the things that Sarah 02:27:01
and I ran on is just having a very large even just not an RDA board with an RDA Commission of citizens, just slow it back and look 02:27:09
at it on a piece by piece basis because this is a much larger budget than our City Council budget, right, and we don't have. 02:27:18
That's a lot bigger spend, right? 02:27:26
Proportionately. 02:27:29
From my. 02:27:30
You don't need that. So that's a difficult math question and I hate that. Just wanted to make sure. That was my comment. Thanks. 02:27:32
OK. 02:27:40
Any comments or questions by the City Council? 02:27:43
OK, if not, I need a motion. 02:27:50
Mayor, I move that we approve the requested First Amendment. 02:27:58
To the Land Donation development agreement as. 02:28:02
In the test resolution that's discussed, OK, first by Tyson, second, second by Christy. 02:28:05
I'll do this by. 02:28:13
Does it need to become A roll call? 02:28:15
OK. Thanks, Amber. Hi, yay, Marty, Christy. 02:28:17
All right. We'll go ahead and move on to your 9.4 discussion and action on shade sales. Parks and Recreation Director Brian Bodry 02:28:22
will present the options. 02:28:27
Excellent. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity. 02:28:37
To show you the final design that we have been able to finish for the shade sales. 02:28:42
There's been. 02:28:51
A lot of residents that have been requesting to have shade sales, there's added shade at our parks. 02:28:52
Very popular places to be and. 02:29:01
Not a ton of sun protection as of right now, so. 02:29:04
Umm, I also just want to thank Rob who's here with Blue Line for sticking around and he's been so good to work with. 02:29:08
Through this whole process and I've really appreciated that. 02:29:15
But I just wanted to show you the final design that we have and get your thoughts on it. 02:29:21
So at Grove Park, our first priority as recommended by staff. 02:29:27
Is to have these three triangular. 02:29:33
Shade sales over the blue area at Grove Park. It's basically a spider web feature. It gets very hot in the summertime. 02:29:38
The reason for doing the triangles instead of the squares. 02:29:48
It helps to reduce the cost just because there are less poles needed. 02:29:53
And we feel like there's just a lot of benefits with wind dispersion and and. 02:30:01
There's a few different reasons, but just to keep it short, that's the first priority. 02:30:07
The second priority would be at Penny Springs Park over the main play feature. 02:30:14
So these three triangles here. 02:30:21
The 4th or the 3rd priority? 02:30:24
Would be the bench areas on the north side of the splash pad area. 02:30:29
The 4th priority would be the Ben. 02:30:39
At Penny Springs Park. 02:30:43
And then the last priority, as you can see these circles throughout the park, those would be trees that we would. 02:30:45
Umm, implement to create additional. 02:30:55
That based off of the recommendations from. 02:31:00
The Arts Commission as well, specifically the center hill where there's five trees. They just felt like that was a good use of 02:31:04
that space so that we can stay within budget. 02:31:09
And be able to meet the needs of of our city residents. So I just want to verify that by you. And lastly our recommendation is the 02:31:17
staff is to have the the shade sale color be a dark blue. 02:31:24
Just for the most cooling possible, we figure a dark blue or a black is probably the best way to go, but fill that blue would 02:31:32
probably be the best look. 02:31:37
So I just want to be open to your thoughts on that. 02:31:42
OK, Council, do you have any thoughts or questions? 02:31:46
Did Arts Commission recommend the Blue? 02:31:53
Because I was my understanding it recommended Gray to match the building. Certainly. Did you want to come up and talk about what 02:31:56
the Arts Commission did? 02:32:00
In our arts committee, we actually were talking about. 02:32:09
Did you have any reasoning or anything that you wanted to add to on that? 02:32:18
Infrastructure. They were trying to match the buildings. 02:32:23
So to find a tone out map and if you were a dark. 02:32:30
Shirt or you have a black car interior. It's hotter, yeah. So we want we we talked about lighter. 02:32:33
OK. 02:32:43
Well, it looks like I just made a motion then. I just have a question you said. 02:32:46
The gentleman from Blue, what's it called? Blue Line. Blue Line. He's here. Yes. Could you just confirm? Maybe because I think 02:32:52
that's a great change. That's great. I really don't care. Graver simply. But I just would love to hear from a professional. Yeah, 02:32:58
please. And sorry if I totally misunderstood that I knew the color was the Gray to match the pavilion poles. But I did not realize 02:33:03
it was. But. 02:33:09
If you want to come up. 02:33:16
Good evening, Council. My name is Rob Donigan with Blue Line. 02:33:23
I can try and answer any questions you may. 02:33:30
Yeah, I'm just wondering. 02:33:32
Do you find the color of the shade affects the temperature of the shade below? 02:33:35
No, I don't really think it has much of an effect. I think it's more of a visual thing where, you know, even if it's dark, I mean, 02:33:40
we're not creating an enclosed space. It's just a canopy that's going to create a shape. 02:33:46
So whether it's blue or white or black, I don't think it's going to affect the heat. 02:33:52
Factor underneath the shades themselves other than creating shade. 02:33:57
And are we also talking about the colors of the poll? I heard that mentioned. So are we. Yeah, so, So Bronson, not to pull him 02:34:01
into this discussion, but he actually sent me. 02:34:06
Bronze is on the Arts Commission, yes, yes, I know sent me pictures and colors that are used at the at the architectural features 02:34:13
in the park and that is the Gray. So our proposal is for the Pol. 02:34:19
Would be that those would match the poles on the pavilions at the at the park. Again shape color is can be whatever. 02:34:25
You know, whatever you want it to be so. 02:34:33
I guess is there a price difference on any of it? 02:34:37
I guess one other thought, just to clarify, I guess the miscommunication there there was talking to our Commission meeting to have 02:34:43
one park was kind of known as like a blue park. The other one was known as a green. 02:34:48
And so having the great poles and then the blue shaped cells, but I am good with whatever. So if we want to go with Gray, my 02:34:54
preference would be to go with whatever Arch Commission recommended. So if you could just confirm with them what they wanted. OK, 02:34:59
I feel like I can make a motion that just then you can go ahead and confirm with our Commission. OK. So we'll just we can do that 02:35:04
in the next meeting with Arch. 02:35:09
It sounds like they already want Gray. 02:35:16
And then did you have any conflicts with that, with the things that you just heard? OK, then it sounds like we have the ability to 02:35:20
make a motion. 02:35:24
OK. OK. So I move to approve. 02:35:27
The shape. 02:35:33
Equipment. 02:35:36
At Penny Springs and Grove Park. 02:35:38
And please defer colors to our expression. 02:35:42
Which was the assumed very color. Can I second that? OK, first by Chrissy, second by Marty. Did you want further discussion just 02:35:47
in the background for your motion or do you care if I added the assumed Gray color? 02:35:53
Yes, I just I I would prefer that they confirm with Art. So the motion is to confirm with Arch the color, that's my motion. Marty, 02:36:03
do you still second that? OK is there any discussion? No, all in favor. 02:36:09
All right. We will, Yes. Thank you so much. We will go ahead and move into a public hearing. Just kidding. We are going to take a. 02:36:17
5-10 minute break right now. 02:36:27
So. 02:36:30
FY24 Budget Amendment Resolution 2023 Dash 56. 02:36:39
And our Finance Director, David Mortensen will present. 02:36:43
I am going to go ahead and have the Council put us into a public hearing. 02:36:47
Thank you. First, I ties second. Second by Amber. All in favor. Aye. All right. 02:36:53
70,000 of that be in the general fund available for economic development purposes. 02:37:31
And then another 20,000 of that available for potential future compensation adjustments for the council. 02:37:35
And then the other adjustments here that we're proposing is just to align the budget with things that have already happened or are 02:37:43
currently. 02:37:48
In our the way things are and so one of those is some personnel compensation adjustments, so just aligning the budget with that 02:37:54
and then some expenses that we didn't anticipate at the beginning of the year when we created the budget in our HR department for 02:38:00
personnel recruitment costs. 02:38:06
And that's pretty much all of the requests. I have a question, were we able to discover how much it would cost for an additional? 02:38:14
Employees, full time employees and planning. 02:38:23
I was not asked to put that together, so I don't have that information. 02:38:27
OK. 02:38:32
Anybody have any ideas on what that would cost that we could move into that budget? 02:38:34
So it depends on what will level. If it's a, if it's a senior planner to do like all the side plan reviews and help with master 02:38:46
planning, you're looking at 75 to 85. If it's a like a an entry level planner then that that could be, you know, quite, quite a 02:38:52
bit lower. I'm like 55. 02:38:58
OK. All right. Are there any questions from the public? 02:39:04
OK, no questions from the public. Can I get a motion to go out of public hearing second? 02:39:13
OK. All in favor. All right, all right, Council. I would love it if we could add additional budget for a senior planner. 02:39:18
Of some sort or somebody that could help with planning. We have so much going on. 02:39:28
Just recently we talked about all the master plans and now the execution is going to be starting and so. 02:39:34
I think that would be really important even I don't know if we have the ability to do that in this budget where you need to kind 02:39:40
of process it and see where you would need to pull that from or if we can just approve it. 02:39:45
At this time or if we need to wait. 02:39:52
Tricky. We would have to do further analysis with incoming sales tax numbers. The last few months have been a little bit up and 02:39:55
down. So it's kind of hard to say right now that we for sure will have additional sales tax revenues, but that is a possibility. 02:40:01
It's also possible that our property tax revenues will come in higher than what we budgeted, but we just won't know that until the 02:40:07
assessment was done and we receive our distribution. 02:40:12
Sometime in January, February. So for me to say right now whether those funds are available would be difficult, but there's a 02:40:19
chance that they could be early in the next year. 02:40:24
Next year. 02:40:31
Well, what would you recommend we do? Do you recommend we do a different budget amendment in January? 02:40:34
Yes, budget amendments can be done anytime during the fiscal year. It's common for cities to hold multiple budget amendment public 02:40:41
hearings, so I recommend waiting and seeing how our revenues are looking and then making an adjustment if if able to at that time, 02:40:45
OK? 02:40:50
Any questions by the Council or thoughts on that? 02:40:55
OK. 02:40:59
With that being said, I just need. 02:41:02
Motion to Approve. 02:41:05
I move to approve the Vineyard City Fiscal Year 2023 Dash 2024 budget. Amendment #2 is presented by staff. Second pressed by 02:41:07
Christie, second by Amber Tice. Amber aye. Yay, Marty. Christy aye. All right. 02:41:15
We'll go into our public hearing for the consolidated fee schedule amendment resolution 20/23/53. 02:41:27
Just know that there are some formatting and kind of clarifying changes, but I'll just talk about some of the actual fee changes, 02:42:05
first of which is in our. 02:42:10
This section is titled. 02:42:18
Administrative fees. So this is specific to parking permits that we offer. 02:42:21
Initially when we set this fee a number of months ago, we had set two fees, essentially. One, if you're purchasing a parking 02:42:28
permit anytime during January through June, you would pay $60.00 for that annual permit. 02:42:35
We're also recommending adding a replacement parking permit fee. If somebody was to lose their permit, they would need to pay a 02:43:18
fee to replace that. 02:43:22
David, how often are people coming in to do replacement permits? 02:43:27
Morgan or cash would probably have good information on that. 02:43:32
I don't have the exact numbers, but we get, we get a few a year, so I'll probably say 5. 02:43:37
But usually it's someone loses that. 02:43:45
OK. Any other questions on parking comments before I move on to the next area? 02:43:50
No. 02:43:55
Oh yes, we do have a question. Come on up. 02:43:58
So. 02:44:04
Chris Price. 02:44:06
So the parking, the parking fees. 02:44:09
Would it be possible? Like would it make it cheaper or possible if we just do like a renewal instead of giving it like a whole new 02:44:14
pass every year? 02:44:19
We just use the same. 02:44:24
ID number and renew it. 02:44:26
It would save the city money not having to print more passes. 02:44:28
But we can in the future. I mean, that's something to explore to see if there's, you know, maybe they just sent us a sticker that, 02:45:03
yeah, like something you could just place over it that could be cheaper. Yeah, we can explore. 02:45:08
I know the tow companies have recently moved to a digital where they have used license plates that may not work for us until they 02:45:14
want to move it from vehicle to vehicle, but that may be something to look at in the future as well. 02:45:19
Passing the mic. 02:45:29
OK. Moving on to code enforcement fees. We just have one recommended change here. We're just adding that if there is a code 02:45:31
violation that the city ends up paying to correct that we would charge a fee of the cost of whatever work the city has to contract 02:45:38
to do plus a 10% administrative fee on top of that. 02:45:44
Any questions on that? 02:45:53
No questions from the. 02:45:55
OK. OK, so now we're getting into our land use fees. 02:45:58
So this is where we're going to. 02:46:03
Quite a few things shifting around and changing. The first, this is not a new fee, it's something that's already in here, but 02:46:05
we're just moving it so it's in a better spot. And this is requesting a special Planning Commission meeting for an approval of any 02:46:12
type of thing that requires Planning Commission, and it's a $33190.00 meeting fee. 02:46:19
Yeah. And just add it still the Planning Commission has to agree to hold a special meeting too. So, so someone can just like, so 02:46:27
if an applicant wants to, you know, have an additional review, they still have to get basically a quorum of the planning 02:46:34
commissioners. So it doesn't guarantee a meeting, but there is a fee to kind of cover the cost of Brian. 02:46:40
OK. The next one we had in here a street and traffic control signs fee, but then a little bit further down there's a street sign 02:46:49
fee. And so it was a little bit redundant. We removed the top one and the street sign fee just clarified. 02:46:56
Instead of $300.00 per sign, because the cost of these signs could fluctuate, we're just having it be the cost of the sign plus 02:47:04
the 10% administrative fee. 02:47:08
Moving into. 02:47:16
I just wanted to point out these are highlighted a little bit funny. The reason being that the initial version of this that was 02:47:21
sent probably a week ago to the council had some things removed. But then with further discussion and clarification it was 02:47:28
determined that these should not be removed. So these I'm just pointing them out that in the version that you originally received 02:47:36
may have been redlined, but the recommendation is that they remain in the fee schedule as. 02:47:43
As shown. 02:47:51
And so the next one that's changing from these listing fee schedule is a site plans technical review. This is a new fee, $1500 per 02:47:53
application. 02:47:57
For the first fifty plan sheets and then that includes up to three revisions. 02:48:04
As well as additional site plan technical reviews, $65 per additional plan sheet or each sheet after third revision. 02:48:09
And if there's any questions about these ones our public works director city engineer the same gender is here and can answer those 02:48:16
questions. 02:48:19
Any questions? 02:48:24
OK. There's also just clarifying language here with our engineering inspection fees that are subdivision related, that's 3% of the 02:48:26
certified bid tabulation that has to be approved by the engineering office. 02:48:32
The next line we're just removing the language that says rounded up to the nearest hour, so it's just $150.00 per hour for 02:48:40
engineering inspection fees, non subdivision related. 02:48:45
And then after hours of engineering inspections supposed to be Monday through Friday between 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM or Saturdays and 02:48:50
Sundays is $300.00 per hour and a two hour minimum. 02:48:56
I already talked about the street. Oh, sorry, this was different. Street light install fee. We're just adding clarifying language 02:49:03
that it's for a new street light, not for a replacement or repairing damage. It's for installation of that new street light. 02:49:10
I already talked about the street sign. 02:49:18
Demolition, we had up to $500 plan review fee we're just taking up to. So it's going to do a flat $500 plan. 02:49:22
Adding this new fee driveway approach in public right of way inspection fee after the encroachment permit. So $250 for up to two 02:49:32
inspections and then $150.00 per any RE inspection. 02:49:38
This next line is just an increase to any use of our vacuum truck. 02:49:46
It was at $190.00 per hour. Upping that to $250 per hour to help cover the cost of our personnel to run that back truck. 02:49:53
And then just clarifying this for use of public right of way, the fine for that without an approved permit. The fee is the same 02:50:04
but just saying that the inspector does not have to be on site after the initial hour. 02:50:11
Infrastructure construction. Just clarifying that this is a bond fee and that it is 100 a 110% of the bid tabulation for a 02:50:24
performance bond or 10% of the tabulation for a warranty bond. 02:50:31
Final grading for a residential lot bond $1000 up to one acre or $500.00 for each additional half acre beyond the one acre. 02:50:39
Full or partial Rd. closure. This is will clear finance and application fee. 02:50:50
$50 per Rd. segment plan review fee. 02:50:55
City barricades for Rd. closure. This is something that needs to be approved by the Public Works Director. We're proposing a 02:51:01
$150.00 application fee and then $75 per barricade per. 02:51:07
And $100 of that would be refundable after the use of the barricades is finished. 02:51:13
I have a question about that one. 02:51:21
Umm, what does that pertain to as far as? 02:51:23
Barricades. 02:51:27
Who does it pertain? 02:51:28
So for example, if there was a row closure that was like a special event, a private special event that would be held and it was 02:51:35
approved by the City Council and so forth and the in their case were requested and other works, we have to provide this therapy 02:51:41
that would be an event. Another instance that's that's happening in real life for for public works is that there is an emergency 02:51:48
closure of a road because of a private contractor my last city. 02:51:54
Private contractor work on a building, part of the building collapsed and we would have to, and Public Works responded right away 02:52:01
to put out the Bear case, but we want to ensure that we were getting compensated. 02:52:06
If we. 02:52:11
Have a group that comes in and they are not requesting their saves that they want to close the road and they have their own. 02:52:13
Barricades. Does this fee still apply to them, or does it not apply to them? So if it's. 02:52:21
If they're using a private company, that this fee would not apply to them. If they were doing Rd. closures, we would. For example, 02:52:28
if it's a test, several Rd. closures require detours and so forth. 02:52:33
Is large enough for a special events. We would require them require them to use a certified company and of course we would not OK 02:52:39
like a special events permit from the county. Exactly OK that makes sense. 02:52:46
So to clarify, if it's a like, let's say someone in the neighborhood wants to do a little party and they want to close their road 02:52:52
and they're going through the proper procedures. 02:52:57
They would have to pay $150.00. 02:53:02
You know, I think it's for it would have to be like up to 1000 people to meet that we get to meet that code. Yeah, I won't be able 02:53:05
to answer that disagree. But for example there, if it's a small event and they're closing on the road and they were not using city 02:53:10
barricades, then it would not be. There would not be a charge at all on that. That would fall underneath the special events and we 02:53:16
wouldn't be involved. 02:53:21
That makes sense. Thank you. 02:53:27
All right. Continue. 02:53:30
So here we're just removing. This was another redundant item that's covered by other plan review fees above. So those are just 02:53:34
being removed. And then I already mentioned the special Planning Commission meeting, It didn't make sense to be right here, so we 02:53:39
moved it further up. 02:53:43
This next new fee is related to repair to damage public infrastructure, so this is for all streets or utilities. 02:53:48
It would be if the city is doing the repair work or contracting with a third party to do the repair work. We would charge a fee to 02:53:56
the person that caused the damage of the cost of those repairs, plus the 10% administrative fee. 02:54:02
And then we've added some fees for tree replacement due to damage. The fee would depend on the size of the tree. So you can see 02:54:10
there the various different diameters of tree and what the fee would be. 02:54:16
If it's a tree larger than 3 inches in diameter, then the cost would be assessed by our city harbor. 02:54:23
So before I move on to building permit fees, are there any questions on any of those landings? 02:54:32
OK. 02:54:42
I have a question. Sorry, I should have verbalized it. Thank you. I just had a question because it's an issue where I live. 02:54:46
So if I live on a dark Rd. 02:54:54
And I want. 02:54:57
Street light on my. 02:55:00
I paid $10,000 to get. 02:55:02
Straight light to put on my dark. 02:55:06
This evening the Republic Works Director. So for example, if it's and this has happened, this is where I've been for the worst 02:55:11
director previously, where a community would like more lighting above and beyond what the requirements are and then the community 02:55:18
would get together, do the request, and it would come down to a cost that the committee would bear and it would be $10,000 again. 02:55:25
Going through the public process, you know the City Council does have the opportunity to. 02:55:34
To to consider the reduction waivers et cetera. I mean it goes through a process of ensuring that though what is currently there 02:55:41
meets the standards for public safety which and then was being requested would go above and beyond that. 02:55:48
So if if I live on a dark road and I want a street light in front of my house, then I come to the city and ask them to. 02:55:57
Waive the fee. I like the fee. And then it has to be there has to be some sort of a permit or something. My guess is that it's 02:56:09
more than that. If you're coming and you live on a dark Rd. you might have the ability to get additional lighting that meets the 02:56:15
standard of the city. If you needed additional lighting, it looks like we would need a waiver. But my question is, would you make 02:56:22
a good point? Do we need to include the ability for the council to put a waiver in this? Sometimes we have to include a waiver in 02:56:28
this document. 02:56:34
Or is that just a opportunity that the council always holds? No, the council can always reduce these. So the the reason you hold a 02:56:40
hearing on this is it sets the base. Yeah. OK This year, Yeah. 02:56:47
And also just to clarify, that fee is currently in our fee schedule. The only change recommended here is just clarifying language 02:56:55
that it's for a new Street Light install. 02:56:59
So moving down into our building permit fees, our building department is recommending the following increases to their fees. So 02:57:08
for total valuations between $1.00 and $1300 instead of a $48 building permit fee would be $75 building permit fee. 02:57:15
And then going down to the different valuations between 1301 and 2000, the 1st 1300 would be $75.00 but then after that it's 02:57:25
unchanged. 02:57:28
From 2000 to $40,000 valuation, the 1st 20, the 1st 2000 would be $96.00 fee and the remaining fees would remain unchanged. 02:57:33
For evaluation from 40,000 to 100,000, the 1st 40,000 would be $514.00 fee and then the remaining fees unchanged. 02:57:44
For valuation from 101,000 to 500,000, the 1st 100,000 would be a $1054 fee and the remaining sections unchanged. 02:57:52
For evaluations of 500,000 and one to $1 million, the 1st 500,000 would be $3854. 02:58:05
And no changes to the other tiers. 02:58:13
Going down $1,000,001 to $5,000,000, the first one million would be $6354. 02:58:17
And then for $5,000,001.00 and over, the 1st 5 million would be a 20,000 dollar $354. 02:58:26
And then changing for any additional $1000 evaluation, it would be a $2.00 fee instead of a $1.00 fee. 02:58:34
OK. Any questions? 02:58:43
And then I think there's just these are just clarifying over on the left side of this for our impact impact fees. 02:58:49
It already states over on the left that it's per ERU, but this is just further clarifying that each of these impact fees is pretty 02:58:56
argue for sewer facilities. 02:59:00
Or for culinary and irrigation water systems. 02:59:05
And that for roadway facilities, the fee is per trip. 02:59:09
And then just hear the same clarification for storm and groundwater, the fee is pretty are you? 02:59:14
We also collect various pass through fees including TSSD impact fees or water reclamation impact fees and orum water rights impact 02:59:21
fees. 02:59:26
Today we have only been collecting the amount that these various entities charge. 02:59:32
That this is proposing that we would add to that a 10%. 02:59:37
Administrative fee for our time and effort in collecting and remitting the fee to these entities. 02:59:42
And then the last change, yeah. 02:59:55
Last changes in our water fees, so removing the water lateral inspection fee and adding an after hours fee supposed to be between 02:59:58
hours of 5:00 PM and 8:00 AM. 03:00:04
Of the reconnect V + 150 dollars. 03:00:10
OK. Any questions on that? 03:00:13
All right, Council, I need a motion to go out of the public hearing. 03:00:17
So moved second, Matthew, Amber, second by Marty. All in favor? Aye. All right, Councillor. Any questions or discussion? 03:00:22
If not, I need. 03:00:32
There I move. We approve the Vineyard City Physical Year 2023 Dash 2024 Budget Amendment #2AS presented. 03:00:34
OK. A first by Tice. Second, second by Amber. This is done by roll call. Tice. Amber. Aye. Aye, Marty. Yay. Crispy. Aye. All 03:00:44
right, we will go ahead and move into our 9.7 public hearing. Forged development agreement, Resolution 202354. I'm going to go 03:00:52
ahead and have the council open a public hearing. Can I just clarify that last motion then vote was for the consolidated fee 03:01:00
schedule and not for the old amendments. Oh, let's redo it. That's OK. Go ahead. Do you want to redo it? 03:01:08
I understand by resolution. 03:01:17
Amended consolidated fee schedule as presumed. OK, so motion to adopt the consolidated fee schedule as presented by. 03:01:20
Second Second by Amber. This is done by roll call amber. 03:01:29
Hi, Marty. Yay Christine. 03:01:34
Now we will move on to thank you for catching that. I appreciate that. All right, we'll move on to 9.7. This is a public hearing 03:01:37
for the 4th Development agreement, resolution 202354. We'll go ahead and open the public hearing now. 03:01:45
First by Tice. Second single by Christy. All in favor? Aye? All right. 03:01:53
Who will be? Yeah, thank you, Mayor. 03:01:59
And council, good evening. So this is a the public hearing for the Forge development agreement. The Planning Commission and their 03:02:04
last meeting did recommend approval of it. They held a public hearing that was one in which you were in attendance but it wasn't 03:02:11
officially a City Council called public hearing. So this would be the that official public hearing. Tonight. There are a few items 03:02:18
that I can run through in the development agreement that have changed kind of from the meeting from. 03:02:25
The Planning Commission's recommendation. 03:02:33
And these are proposals from the the applicant and I'll read through some of these. So that first one is? 03:02:36
The regional entertainment anchor. So the the, the Planning Commission really wanted a lot of definition kind of put around what 03:02:46
is a regional entertainment anchor. 03:02:51
And and so we we wordsmith it during the meeting and so these are some of the proposed amendments from the applicant. So I'll just 03:02:57
kind of run run through this paragraph. So just bear with me. This is 1240, so regionally and then there is an area taken out 03:03:05
significant entertainment anchor shall mean a large scale. So that was changed to regional significant entertainment anchor means 03:03:13
and entertainment or cultural facility as part of the approximate 4.8 acre. 03:03:20
Entertainment landing, Sarah. So that's the area on the northwest portion. 03:03:28
Of the project and I can, I apologize. 03:03:34
The other area was taken out. 03:03:45
And now it starts to interfere though. OK, thank you. 03:03:48
OK. So the the other areas taken out is the the part to to be unique to the county? 03:03:52
And and. 03:04:00
And so that was so kind of what we talked about was having basically like the county was up to Lehigh is about 10 miles. And so 03:04:02
the thought was having some sort of a radius where the use was unique. But it would still have, you know attraction during all 03:04:10
season and draws visitors and tourists from a broader geographical area beyond its immediate locality and has taken out 03:04:17
substantial economic or social impact on the region in which in which it is situated. 03:04:24
And then to determine whether a proposed site plan and then this portion of stakeout is regionally significant, the Planning 03:04:32
Commission and then so it reads include the regionally significant entertainment anchor. The Planning Commission may consider the 03:04:37
following. So essentially says says the same thing. 03:04:43
And then adding in the criteria. 03:04:50
Size, capacity, a substantial physical footprint relative to the entertainment land use area. So being kind of specific to the 4.8 03:04:54
acre area and so I that that actually is a pretty good amendment because it's it's relative to to the site. 03:05:01
And then the third bullet point, regional draw and then just. 03:05:09
Yeah, I don't actually know that. Maybe that there was a spelling error right there. So 4th one down and taken out significantly. 03:05:14
And. 03:05:22
Adding the descriptions and depiction in Exhibit F attached here to qualify as an approved regionally significant entertainment 03:05:26
anchor and that's the exhibit that was reviewed with the Planning Commission. We felt that that was important that we have that in 03:05:32
place because then it gives a comparison for the Planning Commission to to to look at. 03:05:38
The. 03:05:46
Change would be in regards to the parking management plan. 03:05:48
So this was an area that we met. This area also talks about the the regional significance in the review of the Planning 03:05:56
Commission. 03:05:59
But the next kind of can you go back up to the regionally significant portion that second piece? 03:06:06
So that again Planning Commission approval, the regionally significant entertainment anchor through a site plan approval. So 03:06:15
basically it it provides kind of that that that that measurement for the Planning Commission at the site plan. 03:06:21
And then eight. So this. 03:06:38
More like some some some words. I think I I think we at least Jamie and I, we've done a review of this. We feel pretty comfortable 03:06:41
with it. The the thing that the Planning Commission wants and I think there's there's a lot of wisdom into this is that we have 03:06:48
parking for communities to be managed by by essentially 1 entity. We have you know some communities that you have several 03:06:55
different owners and and they'll have different landlords over each one and parking can be really, really tough to to manage. 03:07:02
And So what this does is it puts the requirement on the property association, and so says developers, to incorporate parking 03:07:09
requirements, parking management plan into the covenants, conditions and restrictions such that the future property owners 03:07:15
association that manages the development shall be responsible for modern, reinforcing compliance. 03:07:21
With the parking management plan, through the development and shall have remedies to cure deficiencies permitted by the parking 03:07:28
management plan and by law, including without limitation, self performing. 03:07:33
And self cure of deficiencies and. 03:07:39
Do like that because it kind of puts them at the at the front they're the ones managing managing the community they're they're 03:07:43
going to know at a higher level than the city is and kind of how to how to take care of that. They also are the ones that control 03:07:49
those leases. So they they should have a pretty good understanding of of people's vehicles that are that are attached to to the 03:07:55
unit that that they're leasing and it kind of puts the the onus on to that that one larger entity. So from a code enforcement 03:08:01
standpoint we we can go to. 03:08:06
Go to that larger properties association and not to you know each individual property owner. 03:08:13
Which? 03:08:19
Pretty frustrating. So that's what we've seen and the part that you see crossed out that. 03:08:20
That's basically just like the entire project shall be managed by 1 entity above. That just kind of clarifies that. So we didn't 03:08:24
want, we didn't need to see that say that twice. 03:08:28
And then we have another section in here the Planning Commission thought that I was important that on Mill Rd. that there be a bus 03:08:33
that the developer work with UTA for a a, a bus stop on on Mill Rd. So that that that was put in there and they have been meeting 03:08:39
with with UTA and have have done a pretty good job. So what what we're seeing I mean potentially there there could be BRT, we do 03:08:46
have bus that that runs through the the city now on Mill Road and that would be a really great spot for it and so it would be 03:08:52
carving out. 03:08:58
Kind of in the shoulder, a spot for the bus to pull over without impacting the traffic there. 03:09:05
The other. 03:09:12
Would be in your site plan. 03:09:14
So the this is yeah, this is one of the exhibits that kind of lays out the general uses. 03:09:16
What you see here, this right here, just like Purple Line, is denoting enhanced pedestrian facilities. 03:09:22
And the the applicant did change that to kind of cut off this section. They still have sidewalks, but kind of the the enhanced 03:09:30
requirement is that like larger sidewalks, lots of shade, you know, things of that nature. We really wanted to tie the 03:09:39
entertainment to to the yard so that the the two felt more like 1 cohesive development. So this does. 03:09:47
Cut off kind of the eastern. 03:09:57
So, but it does add kind of a double on either side of Anvil St. which which is pretty nice. So I guess you're give and take a 03:10:00
little bit so. 03:10:04
Those are they, Those are the changes from from Planning Commission and the applicant is here. If you want to dive into like the 03:10:10
specifics of the plan, we can do that as well. 03:10:15
As this is a public hearing and people may not have had an opportunity to go to the Planning Commission, why don't we do an 03:10:21
overview of the project for the people that are here? 03:10:26
OK. Maybe we'll do this. Is there anybody that was not here that would like to, I mean, should I do it for the online people? 03:10:37
There might be people that are watching. We could keep it brief. 03:10:42
I I feel like it's important because that's our public hearing. 03:10:48
Yes, David, maybe you want to just jump to kind of the the, the, the main exhibits and just do a high level I think. 03:10:57
That that would be helpful. And then there are specific questions we from the follow up we can dig into those areas. 03:11:05
There's some changes. 03:11:35
Well, I've been practicing this one for a little while so. 03:11:42
Steve with the Dakota Pacific. 03:11:45
Character development. 03:11:50
General plan plans for this kind of development. 03:11:56
It anticipated mixed-use residential. 03:12:00
And all that we're proposing is aligned with the general plan. I think that's really important. 03:12:03
The development agreement is structured around. 03:12:11
Land use areas and designations of what kind of development can go where? Along Mill Rd. Up along Vineyard Connector. I've 03:12:14
detained that for an entertainment block. These are kinds of users with food and beverage. 03:12:19
And what had already been discussed is this entertainment anchor, there's criteria we're going to bring entertainment anchor and 03:12:25
then supporting retail. 03:12:29
And commercial uses around it as you come down Mill Rd. there's other commercial uses. These kind of uses could include hotel, 03:12:34
retail, additional food and beverage, restaurant over on the Geneva side Rd. Of things, you've got a corner that. 03:12:41
Is that better? 03:12:50
Hello. 03:12:56
All right along along the Geneva roadside of things. 03:12:58
We designated that block up there for office. There could be supporting retail, but that's the that's what it's designated for. 03:13:02
And then you can see the green spots are open space. This is publicly accessible open space, enhanced open space with additional 03:13:07
programming. 03:13:13
The goal is to be able to provide some connectivity of trails and paths for all the residents around that area and then, as was 03:13:20
discussed, this enhanced corridor. 03:13:24
Up from the theater district and entertainment district to the South, how do we draw people in? 03:13:29
Through enhanced lighting, through Acidian, through features along the road. That's the goal of that Anvil Rd. corridor. 03:13:35
I'll mention maximum 1100. 03:13:47
That's the double purple line quarter going north-south. 03:13:51
Within the core you've got mixed-use, which is where the residential would sit with a maximum of 1100 units. 03:13:56
A portion of those will be affordable. 03:14:03
And 20 is I think the development agreement actually is 21. 03:14:05
And you may have supporting retail and ground floor commercial in that area as well. Like specifically around that central Plaza, 03:14:11
we envisioned some supporting commercial food and beverage, again activating open space with commercial supporting commercial 03:14:16
uses. 03:14:21
This is a well, let me back up real quick. That blue area that you see in the top left, that is what we were calling phase one. 03:14:30
It's initial phase in the development agreement. 03:14:34
That is where we'll be starting and that's where we'll be generally completing before. 03:14:41
Any other residential built throughout the rest of the development, Steve can use your cursor. I'm seeing some, yeah, so this is 03:14:45
question question. This is kind of that blue colored area. This is pH. 03:14:52
This is what I'm going to be showing you a rendering of when I click here. 03:14:59
So now I'm across Mill Rd. I'm looking E toward the mountains and this. 03:15:03
Block in the front is that entertainment block. 03:15:08
Behind it is the mixed youth. 03:15:11
We've been thoughtful about the Vineyard Connector experience as you're driving along. What's the massing look like? I'll show you 03:15:14
a little bit more about articulation in a little bit. 03:15:18
You've got varied residential heights from three story along Cauldron Rd. which is here. 03:15:23
To some four story in the middle to five story, which in the middle of this is a parking garage, right? You can't see it because 03:15:29
it's well, it's well designed and it's architecturally interesting. 03:15:33
Going back to the entertainment block. 03:15:39
In here we will have an entertainment. 03:15:42
In this version and this rendering, we're showing this activated Plaza with food and beverage surrounding it to be a place that 03:15:44
people can come hang out, enjoy outdoor uses while while having food and beverage and other retail opportunities. 03:15:52
We've thought a lot about the streetscape experience on all the roads, all the major roads entrances. 03:16:03
Thoughtful architecture. 03:16:09
And then again the mix of residential, we talked about these being 3 Storey these. 03:16:13
Potentially are for sale units. That's part of our overall plan. 03:16:18
Could be live work units that type of activation. 03:16:21
To have a different type of residential throughout this neighborhood. 03:16:24
This is now if I'm looking at that same plan, but I'm up above it and I'm looking down. 03:16:30
And so this is the entertainment block. 03:16:35
Retail and different food and beverage options. You see a lot of outdoor patios. 03:16:38
You see places for people to gather. You see event lawns. You see fire pits. You see sports and recreation. 03:16:43
All this entertainment block anchoring it as a place, that's. 03:16:50
People want to come to The idea is that the retail association will program events. 03:16:54
It'll be activated in the winter for events. It'll be activated in the summer for events. 03:16:58
And so if you are looking for a date night and you know this retail association is hosting some kind of. 03:17:02
You know, yard gain, competition or music or a movie, you can come and enjoy hanging out. 03:17:10
Going to the mixed-use area, this is the residential. 03:17:17
Again, these are parking garages surrounded by apartment units. This would be 5 story. This would be 4 story. Highly amenitized. 03:17:21
Residential living experience. 03:17:29
Around the residential you've got this activated Central Park food and beverage on either side. 03:17:33
A place for children to get out and play climb on some thematic elements. 03:17:41
Enjoy some lawn and some some interesting seating along the way so. 03:17:47
I think. 03:17:53
That covers the site. 03:17:55
Next rendering will be as if I'm looking here, I'm standing here and I'm looking toward what this entertainment. 03:17:59
Plaza may include. 03:18:06
You see shade structures, you see some supporting commercial. Again, this would be food and beverage based. 03:18:09
Seating to be able to support some of that food and beverage. 03:18:14
Fire pits, you know, bicycle parking, electric chargers. 03:18:18
And then in the back you see some sports courts. That's the intent of. 03:18:23
Of a baseline what an entertainment anchor could look like. 03:18:28
This last rendering is I'm standing on the other side of Cauldron and I'm looking. 03:18:35
Toward that central Plaza that had the residential surrounding. 03:18:39
And here again, you see multiple different heights of buildings, you see commercial activation and you see a different kinds of 03:18:43
activities and places to be in shade within the central Plaza. 03:18:49
So that's the big picture design vision, Morgan. I don't know if you would like me to go more into any other particular items or 03:18:58
terms that are already outlined in the development agreement which is publicly noticed. 03:19:04
Are there any questions from the public or comments? If there are, can you start getting in line and make your state your name, 03:19:12
where you're from and what? 03:19:16
There. Yep. 03:19:21
Yeah, Jeff Porter, I just had a question about that. How many residents were in those apartments? 03:19:24
Roughly and was that a multi level parking structure? 03:19:30
OK, that was. 03:19:36
Thank you. I'm sorry, did you state your name? 03:19:38
Well, what was his name? Thank you. Yeah, On the height it goes around five stories. And those steps to, I believe four stories in 03:19:41
the center of the of the building. 03:19:46
Barbara Porter and I'm a vineyard resident, I'm his wife that we just learned sitting together. 03:20:01
Doesn't mean anything, it was just what was available. 03:20:07
Anyways, so my question is for parking. 03:20:11
How many parking spaces? 03:20:14
Are being assigned or will be available? Great question. Do you guys want to speak to your parking? 03:20:17
Yes, and I may have a follow up. 03:20:27
So our quantity of parking is based on occupancy and so we have two different parking structures. 03:20:34
Those units that are family occupied. 03:20:39
It is one stall per bedroom. 03:20:43
Up to up. 03:20:47
If you have more than family occupancy, right? If we have what's called bundle singles, some people think of that as students 03:20:50
coming. 03:20:53
And you know, you end up putting six students in a three bed. 03:20:57
We will monitor and regulate occupancy and if that's if that kind of use is being. 03:21:01
Required. Then we need to have one stall per bed. 03:21:08
And so we think that's the core of what? 03:21:12
Has been a lot of vineyards, parking challenges is occupancy hasn't been regulated. 03:21:14
There's also some requirements for visitor parking. There's also shared parking. 03:21:19
Between the commercial and residential, which again is going to enhance the overall capacity and ability for everybody to build a 03:21:24
park versus some other developments. 03:21:28
First up. 03:21:34
When? 03:21:35
When people say one car ish per bed. 03:21:39
This isn't a UVU area that they're saying. 03:21:45
Brought up. I believe Christie had a life stream on that. 03:21:49
So I'm assuming there would be that would be close to the UVU area. 03:21:55
So there's going to be students, there's going to be newly married couples like my daughter and her husband. 03:21:59
Rented a studio apartment. 03:22:07
And a lot of the Utah city is saying A. 03:22:11
Par for studio apartment. They purposely did a studio apartment so they could save money so they could move out into a townhome 03:22:15
they bought. 03:22:19
And so, because this is a studio apartment, people can't assume that means one person. 03:22:24
Because when they're going to school full time, working in full time, they figure they're not going to be home. 03:22:30
So they didn't need a big space and it was a way for them to save money. 03:22:36
So these assumptions of a studio apartment is one person is incorrect and that needs to be planned for, especially in a student 03:22:40
area. Can I understand you a little bit better? So are you satisfied with the one stall per bed or are you asking for something 03:22:46
additional? No. My husband and I sleep in one bed. 03:22:53
We have more than one car. 03:23:00
Interesting. 03:23:03
That's interesting. I think that's normal. 03:23:05
Interesting comment. I mean, OK. All right. Thank you for your comment. 03:23:09
Next, so I am Janae Riley. I am really excited that we're getting more places in Vineyard that are going to be like hang out 03:23:14
places and things to go do. That's awesome. 03:23:22
The thing that I'm worried about is, is that if I am going to go use that. 03:23:31
As a person who doesn't live in the complex #1, where do I park? 03:23:38
Do I have to go into the parking area where everyone lives and then? 03:23:43
Walk through the parking area to get to those shopping and. 03:23:48
Those fire pits and all the entertainment area that to me would set down my I wouldn't want to walk through where people live. For 03:23:53
one thing it may not be safe, you know, And the other thing is, is that is the parking going to be built? 03:24:01
With the complex. 03:24:09
And is the RDA funds going to be used for any part of this? 03:24:14
Development. OK. Thank you. 03:24:21
I will get back to that. That's a good question. I mean good three points. 03:24:25
OK. Bryce Grady, I'm the Chairman of the Planning Commission. Just something, I mean, you guys are in the meeting, but. 03:24:31
The way one of the big things that we talked about in the meeting was that the anchor needed to be regionally significant. 03:24:38
And we came up with some great language for it. And I noticed in this that there was some language added to the end that said that 03:24:45
Exhibit F was regionally significant. But we were very clear in the meeting that Exhibit F was not regionally significant, Didn't 03:24:52
feel like it was as it was presented and how it was just presented to you again. 03:24:58
That that's basically an enhanced park and I, the Planning Commission did not feel like that that was an anchor for this 03:25:07
development. Just wanted to clarify that. Can you clarify the wording you were looking for? Last meeting we discussed three 03:25:11
things. 03:25:16
That we felt like needed to go into that wording. What do you think was reduced that took away? 03:25:21
Last line that says Exhibit F is regionally significant. 03:25:27
What? What? 03:25:32
Has this been a one point 2.40? 03:25:35
Speed page four. I can pull it up. 03:25:39
Are you pulling that up right now, Morgan? OK. 03:25:48
Yes, in a second. 03:25:51
OK. We'll come back to that one. Was there anything else? 03:25:59
OK. 03:26:03
Hi Daria Evans, junior resident. Last week I asked the question about. 03:26:07
Section 4.4. 03:26:14
The public infrastructure. 03:26:16
It says the developer may elect to petition the city to create a public infrastructure district. 03:26:19
And I'm just curious. 03:26:27
Does it appeared have to be developed before? 03:26:30
The development agreement is. 03:26:33
Ratified or. 03:26:37
And just and it was my understanding last week that this did not have to be in the development agreement that they would go 03:26:41
through RDA. 03:26:45
Would you like me to address that, Mayor? So, really good question. 03:26:53
Any any landowner or group of land owners could petition the city for the Public Infrastructure District to create a Public 03:26:57
Infrastructure District. 03:27:02
It's a right that exists in state. 03:27:07
The city can then consider that application and decide what to do with it. 03:27:10
I don't view the language in this agreement. 03:27:15
Modifying the city's right to consider and accept or reject. 03:27:18
An application Oregon, the developer's right to make an application. 03:27:24
It's just a marker or a signal that it's there. I I do find that often clauses like this can be helpful when the agreements come 03:27:28
forward for public hearing. 03:27:33
Because it signals the developers intention. 03:27:38
To seek that and. 03:27:41
Can prepare the city and prepare the public for the requests that may be made. OK, So what you're saying is the developer can go 03:27:44
ahead. 03:27:48
If this is approved, he can go ahead and ask for a kid after the fact. 03:27:52
After this, if this is approved, you can ask for a pin. 03:27:58
Well, and it seems just to clarify, it seems like what you were saying was they can always do that. This signals their intention. 03:28:03
And from what I understand from our last meeting, we don't see how removing it would. 03:28:11
Be helpful. 03:28:22
It's a neutral provision. I don't know that it affects anybody's rights. Last time he mentioned it really wasn't necessary and so 03:28:23
I'm wondering if it's still included because on my agenda, my 247 pages of agenda is that it has 4.4. Mine does not have the red 03:28:29
lines and so. 03:28:35
Morgan. 03:28:42
Is 4.4 in this new proposal? 03:28:43
Because I don't know, I don't have any red lines on my 247 pages, OK. 03:28:50
So thank you. Yeah, it it is in the most recent version of the agreement, that paragraph. Thank you. 03:28:57
You got in my love. 03:29:10
Sarah Williams, Vineyard resident Just real quick questions. There's 1100 units, but how many parking spots are there? I mean, you 03:29:14
said something about allocating them out, but. 03:29:19
There has to be a number. 03:29:24
So. 03:29:31
As we talk about parking and maybe we can return to this, but. 03:29:33
This lays out kind of still minimal requirements. 03:30:19
Sorry, does that, yeah. 03:30:22
Sorry about that ship price. 2 questions. One is this. This as I understand it is is a a request to change the zoning from 600 to 03:30:26
1100? 03:30:31
Now the the, the zone, the zoning right now. 03:30:39
Really, the kind of the main change is the zoning. 03:30:44
Is really open-ended as far as like the level of intensity doesn't put a cap on the number of residential units, but it does in a 03:30:46
way because it's 1/3 of the square footage could be allocated toward towards residential. And so if this project built out really 03:30:53
intensely then you know, potentially they could even go go higher than that. But what what this does is it allows them to come out 03:30:59
of the gate with residential units and and. 03:31:06
Whereas kind of on the flip side, they'd have to do kind of a higher level of commercial. And so the zoning zoning right now is 03:31:13
1/3 of the square footage to be dedicated residential. 03:31:19
Thank you for that. My second part of the my second question is concerning the parking. I appreciate. 03:31:26
The due diligence that they've done in the thought process that they put into it. 03:31:32
Having lived in the parking problems that we have in Vineyard, I will tell you that if you create a system in one area to fix the 03:31:37
parking. 03:31:42
You're just going to push it to another area? 03:31:48
And so if we don't figure out a way to. 03:31:50
Get ahead of that. What you're end up doing is you're end up. 03:31:57
2003 thousand people over there and they're all gonna park at the megaplex. 03:32:00
It will happen. 03:32:06
Or all the lining streets that are there, all of those businesses that are working and building stuff currently? 03:32:07
Will all be impacted by that thing that's over there. 03:32:15
So what is the plan to be in front of that if you build this? 03:32:19
Awesome. Thank you. 03:32:26
Sean. 03:32:32
Was there a percentage mix? 03:32:34
Ownership and rent. 03:32:36
Of these 1100 units, was there any sort of mixture, any sort of requirement on how many could be rentals versus owned? Yeah, yeah, 03:32:40
we Steve if you want to provide that, I believe that's where going above the. 03:32:47
Kind of what the base number is. See if you can kind of clarify that, but I believe it does provide a. 03:32:56
A number for the ownership. 03:33:03
You know, right now there's an incentive. 03:33:07
So this was a big topic of discussion. 03:33:10
Early on how do we do that? Right now we have big blocks, right? We're trying to provide structured parking in order that you 03:33:12
provide big blocks. It's hard to provide sectional ownership within those big blocks. 03:33:17
But anywhere we can find opportunities to put for sale units like I illustrated along Cauldron Rd. we wanted to find those 03:33:23
opportunities. 03:33:27
And so we put an incentive basically we can do 1075 units, but we can go up to 1100 units if there's at least 25, four cell units. 03:33:32
So that's what's in the agreement today. 03:33:40
25 For sale units out of 11. 03:33:47
I want to buy four for bundled singles. 03:33:52
A new word. 03:33:55
The other question I had was affordable housing. 03:33:57
I saw a number on there. 03:34:00
I think the number was 20 affordable housing units. 03:34:02
How do we quantify affordable housing and what's really affordable and something like that. So I'm interested in the affordable 03:34:05
housing aspect. Yeah, the affordable housing we use AMI and so that's the area median income. What's being proposed is 60% of the 03:34:11
area median income. And I I believe the kind of the, the priority would be for first responders and and teachers and so it would 03:34:17
provide kind of a. 03:34:24
A number in there if you if you want to pull that up, Steve, that might be helpful, Yeah. 03:34:30
So the federal government has what's called HUD standards. They look at the incomes of the area. 03:34:38
You then take 60% of that. 03:34:45
And you say 30%. If somebody's earning 60% of the average median income, they can put 30% toward housing. 03:34:48
And there's a whole formula and some complexity around how you figure out one bedroom versus 2 bedrooms and three bedrooms. 03:34:56
But that's all regulated, it's federal regulated. And so our deed restriction will say that we'll comply with those guidelines. 03:35:01
Does that answer your question? 03:35:10
Are you looking for? 03:35:13
Percentages of the 60% AMI? Is that your question? Come back to the microphone in case you want. 03:35:16
I think we're all aware that the affordable housing crisis is huge. 03:35:21
And where can we find places to put affordable housing? 03:35:26
And if 20 of 1100, I don't know. 03:35:31
Number on the screen. If twenty of those are affordable, that's not really solving a problem. It's a huge problem. 03:35:34
It's tough to do affordable housing and it's extremely tough when it's 60% of that AMI is. 03:35:42
30 something 1000 prob. 03:35:48
What's affordable when you make 30,000 is a unit there. So it's not anything to do with this development through this development 03:35:50
is going to be great. It's just did you have any recommendations for what you're hoping to see the size 20 units are you looking 03:35:55
for some kind of percentage just so I can understand you, No, no, I have no number there for you. I just know we need more 03:36:00
affordable housing and this doesn't solve. 03:36:05
That problem, that doesn't even put a little dent in there. And that's nothing against this development. That's just development 03:36:10
in general. What's Leftover Vineyard is never going to. 03:36:14
Address that subject any development. 03:36:19
OK. 03:36:22
My name is Kimberly Olson. I'm a vinegar resident. I live in lakefront and I actually moved here a couple years ago. 03:36:30
Pleasant Grove and. 03:36:40
I lived in a townhome that was in a dead end when I moved in, and then Walmart came in. We all know what happens. 03:36:42
And I think my concern. 03:36:51
Now that I live in lakefront is people aren't cramming into housing because it's fun or because it's comfortable. They're doing it 03:36:54
to put a roof over their head, and I have so much respect for that savvy. 03:37:01
I I'm so blessed that I purchased my first home in 2011 and I was able to do that. And so I was able to transfer my equity and I 03:37:08
was able to move here. 03:37:13
A lot of people, including my 21 year old daughter who was looking to get married, is not in that situation and so I hosted. 03:37:20
Friendsgiving for her and her friends. 03:37:29
And the conversation came up that I have an unfinished basement and these children were literally like. 03:37:32
What can we do to get you to finish your basics so that you'll rent to us? I mean, they're desperate because they're all like half 03:37:39
more engaged. They're looking for housing and they're like, how do I? 03:37:44
What 15112 hundred for a one bedroom for these students, like they can't afford that. So they're getting savvy. These couples are 03:37:49
coming together and they're getting a two-bedroom together so they can afford the rent. So I think we have code and we have these 03:37:55
minimums, but but what are we doing about the reality? People aren't crammed together in Vineyard and having parking issues 03:38:01
because they're bored. They're just trying to put a roof over their head, so. 03:38:08
That's that is one thing that I think that instead of always like we're complying with Colonel complying with code like understood 03:38:15
you complied with code in lakefront and I literally like asked 2 girls in the 30 minute Blizzard we had on Friday. They parked at 03:38:23
the front runner. You guys I was walking out of out of Walmart and like it was hitting my eyes and sitting at the snow was for 03:38:30
that 30 minutes I pulled over because they're walking to their home in this snowstorm and I'm like can I give you a ride and. 03:38:38
They desperately wanted to take my ride, but they didn't know who I was, so they didn't feel comfortable doing that. And that 03:38:46
broke my heart that they continued to walk in that to get home. 03:38:51
The other thing is when you talk affordable housing, I moved to here and I feel like my problems are chasing me. I moved to here 03:38:56
because. 03:39:00
We built affordable housing across the street from. 03:39:05
Guess where the police were all the time and when? I mean all the time. I mean I heard sirens going. 03:39:08
There were five complexes. One has affordable housing. 03:39:17
And every time the police came, it was to that one place. We don't have our own police. We have our sheriff. 03:39:22
That's just a. 03:39:30
Of that was my experience. That's what I lived in the middle of, is across the street in this affordable housing. Not only that, 03:39:32
the landlords. 03:39:37
I'm not trying to make any judgment, but the landlords are there to make money. They're going to rent at market value. Nothing's 03:39:42
going to change that. Well, they're going to rent at 30% like this affordable housing division with us. And then the fees that 03:39:48
they charge because they weren't rent were astronomical. So that's what those people did. 03:39:55
They didn't put everybody on the lease. 03:40:02
Because they weren't allowed to. And then they moved somebody into their spare bedroom and then they didn't have parking, and then 03:40:05
they took our parking. So we're opening up. 03:40:09
Affordable housing sounds great, but people are people are savvy. They're creating their own affordable housing. So I would just 03:40:14
really urge you to require as we're building more of this. 03:40:19
To adapt to what the reality is and the reality is, is we don't have enough parking. The code, Maybe the code. I don't know what 03:40:24
you guys can do about it. It's not enough. 03:40:29
OK. 03:40:35
Just so I make sure I understand you just really quick. 03:40:38
I'm sorry. 03:40:42
You want to make sure that we have sufficient parking, you want to make sure that we manage parking that we have, correct? 03:40:44
Which we do have a police force in our city that works here in our dedicated solely to the community. 03:40:51
But it seems like you want to make sure that whatever the case is that we're not christening. 03:40:57
Whatever housing we bring in adds value to our community. Yes, adds value to our community and we're and we're dealing with the 03:41:03
reality of. 03:41:07
What the changes are instead of? 03:41:11
Putting on our rose colored glasses and this is what we want it to be. This. 03:41:14
This is just reality. I lived in the middle of it. Thank you. Thank you. 03:41:18
Sorry about that, Barbara. 03:41:23
We had a different experience with affordable housing in California. 03:41:30
We. 03:41:34
And to pass by our home when they were building. 03:41:36
They've built. 03:41:40
Apartments. We were literally across the street from Cal State San Marcos. 03:41:42
And so they said there had to be someone in the apartment. 03:41:47
That was not a. 03:41:53
So luckily, the people who. 03:41:55
Managing that place for. 03:41:58
They went to all the singles words and we had the past group of people. 03:42:00
Newly. 03:42:05
One of them wouldn't be going to school. The other one could walk across the street and not have to pay $800.00 for a parking 03:42:07
pass. 03:42:10
And they had three bedrooms down to 350. 03:42:14
And they were allowed to stay there until their income. Once they graduated, they could stay there. They saved their money and 03:42:18
they actually bought homes across the street. 03:42:23
Because they love. 03:42:29
So affordable housing can. 03:42:31
And they worked it so that it could be apartments for the affordable housing that they got credit for. And then in the long run 03:42:33
they were going to sell them because they. 03:42:38
To. 03:42:44
And so that helped a lot of people that we knew because we were on the same ward. 03:42:47
Amazing people. 03:42:52
Amazing, amazing people. 03:42:53
And so it can work. It allowed them to buy a home, to have their family and not postpone having kids. 03:42:56
So I'm here to advocate affordable housing can work. But it was the entire complex was affordable housing. Thank you. 03:43:03
OK. Other questions. 03:43:11
Or comments? 03:43:14
OK, If not, I'm going to go out of a public hearing. 03:43:17
I need a motion. 03:43:20
So second, first by ties, second by Marty. All in favor? Aye? All right. 03:43:22
Let's go ahead and start deliberating and address some of these things. One of the questions that came up was studio parking, one 03:43:29
bedroom isn't sufficient and what are we doing for visitor parking and commercial provisions? Would you mind just addressing that? 03:43:37
Our parking will be 100% permitted. 03:43:50
The parking that we have supplied. 03:43:55
Isn't necessarily the parking that will be demanded. We understand that. 03:43:58
But because every stall is going to have a permit associated with it. 03:44:03
If there is somebody in the studio. 03:44:08
That needs two cars. Great. Come to the leasing office. Let's see what excess parking is in, you know, our inventory. 03:44:11
And if they have, if we are able to park that couple as with reference, then we will be able to sign that lease. We'll be able to 03:44:18
give them two parking stalls as needed and things will be able to move along just fine. There will be some people in a two-bedroom 03:44:24
that only have one car. 03:44:29
Well, great. We'll just take that inventory, that piece and be able to allocate it to again bundled singles or people in a one 03:44:34
bedroom that have two cars or if there are you know multi generational families that was brought up in, in one and they need three 03:44:39
cards and two better. Fine. We're just managing our inventory against the demand so that we don't sign leases that exceed the 03:44:44
parking capacity of the area. It's just it's just a responsible way to try to manage the property so that we don't exceed the 03:44:49
bounds. 03:44:54
Can can I add a? 03:44:59
I went to a training Morgan. I think you were there. 03:45:03
Can I add a request that we don't use Tandem Parking if you're going to have? 03:45:07
Beautiful. 03:45:12
It's the. The only exception could be if like there's like a. 03:45:14
Connected garage inside of a. 03:45:18
Of a unit. It's a garage, then installed just because that's the only efficient, efficient way to do it. But generally tandem 03:45:21
parking isn't. I just don't want it to count as that space because I know a lot of times those garages end up with. 03:45:27
The storage area. 03:45:35
Where we've seen it work is, yeah, the valet basically to make tandem for. 03:45:37
You're sitting, you're sitting around waiting for the next person to comment. Yeah, the width of those garages that you saw is 03:45:42
designed to avoid any tandem parking It. It's it's, it's it's designed to be. 03:45:46
Install drive by install stall. 03:45:52
Rabile stall so. 03:45:55
OK. 03:45:59
OK. 03:46:01
OK. Did you want to talk about visitor parking? 03:46:04
There is a provision in there for for visitor parking. So big picture, I think the question is what are we going to do to get in 03:46:09
front of parking? 03:46:13
Let me just pull up this slide again. 03:46:17
We may have done done well. Why do you say this and you address it, I think price made. 03:46:22
A really valid point that we want to be able to manage it in a way that not only are you just managing the occupancy, but that we 03:46:29
provide enough and we do a good job so that it isn't pouring into our development next door. So maybe as you talk about it, talk 03:46:34
about how you're addressing that need. 03:46:39
So our phase one is going to have extra capacity, so. 03:46:46
You know the code required. 03:46:51
Parking demand is going to be here and we're going to provide 15 to 25% above. 03:46:53
That code required demand that's going to give us the margin to be able to absorb any miscalculations. 03:46:58
At the end of phase one, we're going to do a parking study. We're going to understand we're going to be counting the cars on the 03:47:03
streets or right and understand how our parking management. 03:47:08
Is working. 03:47:13
We're going to take those lessons learned before we go build Phase 2. And so I think that's really going to be helpful. We've got 03:47:15
margin in phase one. 03:47:18
If that margin is not, you know is it is. Umm. 03:47:22
Not UT. 03:47:25
We'll learn that if it's over utilized and people are parking on the streets outside, we're going to learn that. 03:47:27
Is that something that you'll be reporting back to us as you plan for phase two? It is requirement, yeah, it's engineers got to 03:47:33
come do the parking study. We've got to sit down. We've got to deliberate. 03:47:39
The planning commissioners similar to the downtown requirement, I thought I remembered that, but. 03:47:45
All right. There is provision for visitor parking, right? We have some private streets, but but there is a provision in there for 03:47:50
added capacity for visitor parking. Again, that needs to be studied how it's being used. 03:47:56
Our vision and goal is to be able to have designated visitor stalls. Again, these are private roads. Along some of the private 03:48:02
roads there will be time limited visitor parking and then there will be a process, you know if there's overnight visitor parking 03:48:05
as well to permit that. 03:48:09
OK. Council, did you have any commentary on the for sale units numbers and the affordable housing units? Did you feel that was 03:48:14
satisfactory? Did you want to talk more about that? We pushed as hard as I could to get as many affordable housing units and that 03:48:21
is what they gave me. I'd be happy to see more about what might be helpful because. 03:48:28
There's the designated 60% am I and that that's actually really good in the affordable housing world it it it means that you're 03:48:35
and the idea was it was set aside for first responders that is that we could get more pleased and firefighters teachers living in 03:48:43
the community because you know especially the entry level position which sure holding can speak to that but you know it takes 03:48:50
takes a while to where your you know your income is going to increase but then there's also market rate and. 03:48:57
And I think it might be helpful Steve, if you kind of talk about just like some some of the market rate and and kind of you know 03:49:05
not necessarily the exact price points but just understanding kind of the overall inventory because there's the designated. 03:49:11
Am I at 60% and then there's just the overall market? 03:49:18
So on affordable housing, we have offered this up just as a concession. There's no regulatory requirement. We saw a need. We heard 03:49:23
specifically about teachers and 1st responders. How do they live in the community that they're working? We. 03:49:29
This is something that we can contribute to. 03:49:36
We don't have. 03:49:39
We don't have federal subsidy. 03:49:40
Subsidizing or any government subsidized subsidy helping us out with this, this is just developer concession to say, let's let's 03:49:43
provide that. 03:49:47
They will be delivered throughout the development. So it's not like they're going to come all at the end and they're going to be 03:49:52
integrated in with the development, meaning they're not going to be some stand alone. 03:49:57
On the, you know, edge of the development it's going to be integrated into. 03:50:02
The overall. 03:50:08
Larger. 03:50:10
As far. 03:50:12
100% will be market rate attainable workforce housing. 03:50:13
We're really close. 03:50:17
To 100% AMI or just under type rents, that's achievable for the typical average. 03:50:19
Income for Utah County. So our our rents aren't going to be, you know, luxury housing that's not attainable. 03:50:27
Somebody earning close to the average income of the county. 03:50:35
Yeah. 03:50:46
Will you clarify, you said it's roughly, I think we said 1100 units including the the rental or the affordable and the? 03:50:48
Owner. 03:50:58
Is that just in faith liner, is that the whole project? That's the whole project. So phase one is 650? 03:51:00
All right. That's better than I thought. So that's good news. 03:51:07
I just want to say. 03:51:12
This is really hard for me. 03:51:14
It's not exactly what I wanted for the area. I know you've been working with the city and. 03:51:16
Trying to come up with a comp. 03:51:23
It's so hard, the whole conversation with affordable housing because it's like. 03:51:27
We all want the affordable housing crisis to be solved somehow, but then we don't want too many high density apartments. 03:51:32
We all want it to be less dense, but then we all want our children to be able to afford to live here and so it's like this 03:51:40
balancing act and so. 03:51:44
Just like my thought. 03:51:50
On this project. 03:51:52
I'm not. I'm I'm not in love with the idea of having two big apartment buildings. 03:51:58
But I understand the cause and I just if there's any way that the second phase could be less housing, I think that I would be more 03:52:04
comfortable voting this sort of do you want to do that through? 03:52:10
Ownership or just the reduction of units? 03:52:16
Like, I know you can't say what phase two looks like. I know you haven't gotten to that. 03:52:20
But do you have a plan? Like, is it meant to be townhomes? Is it meant to be another apartment building with the parking 03:52:25
structure? 03:52:28
Have you even gotten that far? We have contemplated all of the above. I mean, it is hard to know exactly where the market's gonna 03:52:33
be and what it's what it's gonna say. 03:52:36
There have been discussions of wanting some kind of a parking structure that's a shared parking structure close to the theater, 03:52:41
right, to kind of just help with the community impact. That's something we certainly considered. We've also considered larger 03:52:46
developments of townhomes and just how that lays out. 03:52:51
That's why we left it open-ended. I don't know how to. Is there any way for us? 03:52:57
Morgan. 03:53:04
You might need to listen to this part. Is there any way that we could approve? 03:53:05
I know this is a development agreement, but is there any way we could approve the amount of housing in the first phase and then 03:53:10
the second phase? 03:53:13
Later. 03:53:17
Pulled away in your resident really fast. Did I understand you earlier when you said there is no cap? Is? 03:53:21
Could be 1100, but there's no cap on if it's more. 03:53:28
Yeah, there's no cap in the zoning code. 03:53:33
So we're going to reduce it. 03:53:38
Clarify that in the zoning code, there's no cap on the height. The development agreement puts limits on those things. What were 03:53:44
you saying? OK, it's 12 stories compared to five. It feels like no cap is very high. 03:53:51
OK. I didn't get my question. Oh, I'm sorry. OK. Yeah, I would see no reason. I mean development agreements allow you to phase in 03:54:01
projects. The development agreement, Jamie corrected if I'm wrong, but you can make a specific to, you know, one area and then you 03:54:09
can, I would assume you could require an amendment or or something like that. It would kind of depend. So would that remove the 03:54:16
cap that we're doing right now because technically you're opening it up to additional housing in the future? 03:54:23
If you're facing it, it would well, you would cap the first phase, Yeah, you tap the first. So we couldn't tap the whole project 03:54:32
so they could keep their current zoning that they have. Yeah. The second phase would would essentially follow the the one third 03:54:37
square footage rule under the zoning and if I may. 03:54:43
With the current market conditions, hopefully there's evidence in a lot of people's mind that capital markets hate uncertainty. 03:54:51
They will not raise. 03:54:58
You know, a part of this investment is going to be our own. A lot of this investment is going to be other investors that we have 03:55:00
to go and compete and say, do you want to invest in this project? 03:55:04
Banks have to say we're going to lend on this project. 03:55:09
Uncertainty starts to freeze up capital markets so. 03:55:11
That's why it's important to us. It's not. 03:55:17
You know, we want to just make sure that we have our grab. It's because we know we're going to need it to be able to raise the 03:55:20
funds necessary to deliver the project. 03:55:24
OK, we did have a question. It was about we addressed the parking for visitors. 03:55:29
There was a question about parking with a complex for RDA funds on the site. I would say that there's always a potential for 03:55:36
people to come with an application and get RDA funds and that will have to be addressed by the RDA. I think the intention is to 03:55:42
work with the group and provide the infrastructure and the needs, but it will be voted on at a future time, right? Is that 03:55:48
correct? 03:55:54
OK. I believe that answers all the questions on that one. 03:56:01
Exhibit F Did we address why it was not regionally significant to price? 03:56:06
So I mean I would kind of leave that up to Steve. We, we we did put the. So my understanding was that is this Exhibit A you want 03:56:15
to go to the to the actual like plan view. 03:56:22
Yeah, that's great. 03:56:31
And so how, how so from a staff side what what we would do, we would take the, the language and we would analyze like the the text 03:56:33
or the regional significance for the entertainment anchor. This provides this kind of a like a level of of amenities that that 03:56:42
that that we can look at. And so you're showing you know potential restaurant pads, you're showing you know pickleball courts. 03:56:51
Doesn't necessarily have to be Pitbull courts, but it's showing like a highly amenitized area. 03:57:00
That's the direction with the text. Like we would use those two to kind of help us. So the difference, if I'm understanding it 03:57:06
correctly, is that this is kind of the housing portion. 03:57:11
Is that right now this is the. This is the entertainment block. Yeah. This is that north, then the Northwest. OK And why do why do 03:57:17
we feel like this doesn't reach the. 03:57:21
Reach the code I would, I would ask maybe Bryce. 03:57:27
Clarification. 03:57:32
While Bryce comes forward, can I offer a recommended revision that I think we'll get at his concern what I heard from Bryce and? 03:57:34
Bryce, please tell me if I'm correct. Is that the text definition in the agreement that we created? 03:57:42
And have a modified with the developers input for the regionally significant entertainment anchor. 03:57:50
He's OK with that. There's then a line after that that says the description and depiction in Exhibit F qualifies as. 03:57:58
A regionally significant entertainment anchor and I think what Bryce is saying. 03:58:06
Really doesn't like that. 03:58:10
You'd rather just have the definition apply that language. That's fine. Do you guys feel comfortable with that? No, you don't. Can 03:58:12
you explain why? OK, I. 03:58:16
It's going to be tricky to negotiate later. 03:58:21
What criteria meets that? It's interesting as you read through those criteria. 03:58:25
Depending on what lens you have. 03:58:29
This meets it. If you have it, you know a lens for you know some. 03:58:32
Large museum then. 03:58:38
Well then this doesn't mean that we thought it was important to baseline what lens your. 03:58:40
Looking at that criteria through. 03:58:45
And we have put this forward, We have Negoti. 03:58:47
In good faith. 03:58:50
We felt this was regionally significant, that people are going to come to the activities and the programming that happens here. 03:58:52
The food and beverage is going to be a unique environment and it's going to pull people into the area. It's going to be an 03:58:56
amenity. 03:58:59
And so we thought it was really important to say. 03:59:03
These things do qualify so that when we come and submit what our entertainment anchor is, there has been some understanding or at 03:59:06
least some documented baseline of what does meet the criteria, right. 03:59:11
It's a starting point to negotiate from as opposed to a very broad criteria, I mean. 03:59:16
I wouldn't mind if you did something like you can discuss this with the planner and see how you can, you know maybe there's a 03:59:22
waiver like you didn't meet the 10 mile marker and so there was like a nine mile or something like that. But I I feel like even 03:59:27
the products and the companies that you've talked about meet the criteria that is coming in. We feel they do as well. We're just 03:59:33
concerned if other. 03:59:38
Right. And so in the text below this we documented some descriptions. 03:59:44
Right, that we have a restaurant and a commercial user coming together to bring an activity center and a large restaurant, right. 03:59:48
And again, we're on 4 1/2 acres and we're saying it's going to take a proportion of that. So the scale has to be appropriate for 03:59:53
that. 03:59:57
Or it's this food. You know, what we've presented up here is basically a food hall, a food court. It just happens to have an 04:00:02
outdoor activity center in the middle that again has programmed events, live music, that type of thing. We're. 04:00:08
We want an understanding that that type of description. 04:00:14
Is an entertainment anchor. 04:00:20
Jamie, do you have any recommendations for how we could address this? I mean I council, I don't mind if you put in something like 04:00:24
the planner can discuss this and can go through these types of discussions if you saw that as a value. But I feel like there's 04:00:30
some nuances in here that I don't think need to be. 04:00:35
Yeah, I mean my my legal advice to you would be. 04:00:41
If they're going to baseline it by exhibit. 04:00:45
This will be a binding agreement once you approve it and they sign it. So you would have to accept that baseline as what you might 04:00:49
get. And what I'm hearing from Bryce is that the Planning Commission's recommendation of approval was conditioned on their 04:00:55
definition. 04:01:01
Not exhibit. 04:01:07
And so their recommendation to you would. 04:01:09
To not accept Exhibit F as what you get. Well and it seems like the, I mean, I feel like I know the company you're talking about 04:01:13
because we're talking about it, but I feel like. 04:01:18
I see the definition fitting. So there has to be some kind of ability. He's saying he needs the ability to prove that they fit it 04:01:24
and they're feeling like this is a little bit stringent. So Council, how do we come together on that? Because it makes sense that 04:01:29
there's going to be differences of opinion. 04:01:34
On it. But there's a standard and the standard it seems fine. And if you're coming into some ability to have a discussion and say 04:01:40
OK for Bryce, it may. 04:01:44
Covered. 04:01:50
Pickleball courts. But there could be this incredible amenity, you know, that doesn't have that, but it is regionally significant 04:01:52
or maybe it could be our standard as 10 miles, but 9 miles is just as good as it's if it's out of our area and it's regionally 04:01:59
significant and it's going to bring huge value to the community and they all want it. So Bryce, is your objection just the image 04:02:06
and exhibit AF or or do you also object to the language below it? 04:02:13
So I haven't seen this language. It wasn't in the paperwork that I received. All the Red Line stuff I have not seen. 04:02:20
I haven't even had a chance to read that part. 04:02:27
But. 04:02:31
It was the language we're we're happy with the language that we came up with in our Planning Commission meeting and. 04:02:34
I feel like this by itself just showing this exhibit doesn't meet that criteria and if it's in there that it says that. 04:02:41
Exhibit F is regionally significant, but it doesn't meet the language that we came up with then. It's not reasonably significant, 04:02:49
like we went through that whole ordeal. 04:02:54
So that we could define it and we came up with language so that we could define it and then just having this vague picture kind 04:02:59
of. 04:03:03
Takes away our definition. I mean can we, can we do something like if if the this would be for Steve as well like could the 04:03:07
Planning Commission, if they so choose enter into the NDA where they can actually? 04:03:13
The business, I mean that's where it's kind of hard because we, you know like from an economic development standpoint like we're 04:03:20
able to kind of analyze it, right, But it's. 04:03:24
You can't can't. You can't put these. I feel like we do this. Let's just cut the exhibit and allow you to negotiate it and make 04:03:28
sure that you're meeting the intent. 04:03:32
Can we do that? Because this doesn't need to come back. It's administrative. I think if you saw the company that was coming in, 04:03:37
you would feel comfortable. We'll cut the exhibit so that it's a compromise between the two. We'll make sure that the planner can 04:03:42
negotiate according to the intent. Will it still come back to the Planning Commission? It will come back to the planner. 04:03:48
And we'd still keep we keep the language that the Planning Commission. 04:03:54
In what we accepted in the Planning Commission was that it comes back to the Planning Commission. 04:03:59
Yeah, Well, it would through the site Planet, yeah, yeah, that the development language, the development agreement language would 04:04:04
still do that. So if I were to put. 04:04:08
Words of a motion or an amendment to the agreement. What the mayor just said we would eliminate Exhibit F and then you would 04:04:14
eliminate. 04:04:18
That last sentence in. 04:04:23
One point 2.39 that it states that Exhibit F is an example of something that is reasonably significant. 04:04:27
I don't have any confidence that the tenant that we've talked about will meet the criteria. 04:04:38
And the Planning Commission? 04:04:44
Really, I do, and I feel. 04:04:48
Well, you know. 04:04:52
How it's very open-ended. It's very, it's left open to discretion and we are left without any. 04:04:55
To have any kind of baseline to say that's that's not fair. So the text that's here provides. 04:05:02
Again, I think the text to #2 basically describes. 04:05:11
The picture above. 04:05:14
That is important to us and I think it's going to be hard, hard for us just to leave it so open-ended, OK. So I think this is 04:05:17
something that council needs to decide regionally significant. I think we all want to attract something really important. What 04:05:22
we're looking at right now I think is regionally significant and meets the criteria according to what I'm reading. However, I 04:05:28
think what is really being discussed is what if that tenant falls through and we get something else. 04:05:33
That's the discussion. So if you want regionally significant according to these descriptions, then we just need a hard line. Put 04:05:40
this in with that description that goes to the planner. And if you want something that says, hey, we're open to business and it 04:05:45
needs to be X criteria that you feel is different than this and it's not necessarily region, regional or an anchor. This is what's 04:05:50
on the table for you to decide right now. 04:05:55
OK, while we do that. 04:06:01
I have a question about. 04:06:03
Signaling the developer's. 04:06:06
Well, actually, I'm going to hold that comment. 04:06:12
Does everybody feel comfortable with the wording in there that signals the developers intention? 04:06:15
With a PID that they can request it, they can currently request it, they have that ability. 04:06:20
And. 04:06:26
Whether we put that in there or not, couldn't they request that anyway? It's just this signals the developers intention and that's 04:06:27
what Jamie thought was. 04:06:31
Interesting in this. 04:06:36
You know or noted that it's just a provision that, in my opinion, is legally meaningless. It may have graphical value, but I 04:06:38
don't. I don't think it means anything. It doesn't give any enforceable right to. 04:06:44
It doesn't give any enforceable right to the developer I agree with. 04:06:51
All that's been said. 04:06:55
The signaling may be overstated as well, right? 04:06:57
It was just an expression of optionality. 04:07:01
That's that's all right. 04:07:05
All right, either way it can be denied by the body, so it doesn't matter if. If you think there are concerns about the language, 04:07:09
remove it. I don't think so. 04:07:14
Does anybody else feel that it needs to be removed? 04:07:20
As long as we're clear that it's not committing to anything. 04:07:23
I mean, I say we just remember because it means nothing but. 04:07:27
I don't know if you guys don't want to remove it. 04:07:31
You don't care. We're fine if it's removed. Our options remain the same. 04:07:35
OK, yeah, just remove it. Pointless. 04:07:41
OK. All right. There's always compromise on every discussion. All right, let's see. 04:07:44
I think we've addressed all of the comments so far given by let's see townhome overhead. 04:07:50
That came from the public so far. So that draws us back to the anchor. Let's go ahead and make this decision. And then I have a 04:07:58
question as well on open space. 04:08:02
Well, I was very comfortable with our decision of last. 04:08:10
That it needed to meet certain criter. 04:08:14
OK, because. 04:08:17
There is a large amount of. 04:08:23
Not to demean what's there, but vanilla entertainment. 04:08:26
There. 04:08:31
That's the one. 04:08:34
So I wouldn't consider it. 04:08:36
Unless there was something there to different. 04:08:39
What's already? 04:08:42
I think our previous delineation pointed that out. 04:08:45
OK. Do you feel comfortable with the wording that I suggested that? 04:08:49
The planner. 04:08:54
Negotiate with them for any nuances. 04:08:57
And it's to come back again. 04:09:01
So are. 04:09:04
You mean he has the authority to say here's the agreement or it then has to go back through the whole process and so it's not in 04:09:05
disagreement? 04:09:09
To further define this. 04:09:16
Then this still needs to be a judge. OK, so you do not want to give the authority for him to address whether or not it meets the 04:09:19
intent. 04:09:24
OK. 04:09:30
What I think they're saying that it is regional and if. 04:09:34
It doesn't mean. I mean, yeah, I guess that's a good question. 04:09:39
That that's how that's how it was recommended. OK, so it looks like everybody wants it to. I mean, I'm sorry, is the concern with 04:09:44
the image or the text? 04:09:48
The image. 04:09:55
I mean all of these, India. 04:09:58
But. 04:10:06
The Planning Commission hasn't seen that. 04:10:08
Yeah, so exited that. 04:10:11
What do you not like about the text? 04:10:17
It's unnecessary really. 04:10:19
The text that we have with the with the rest are we just think. 04:10:22
No, IA 100% agree that the regional anchor as you described it is OK. 04:10:27
If you were to add these in as variances to that and say hey, regional is important but also. 04:10:32
It could be something like an indoor surf park. 04:10:39
These things qualify. So if you come out of the 10 mile or whatever we said was regional and then all of a sudden these are your 04:10:42
variances, basically what is unacceptable inside of here that you'd like us to scratch. Personally, I could say what I would want. 04:10:48
But as far as? 04:10:54
Two, an indoor or outdoor food court, that's .5 acres like, that's That's not something that qualifies. 04:11:01
And that's not regionally significant with one. 04:11:09
I mean, it all depends. You can. Anybody can throw up a rock climbing wall in a park. Like, it's hard to say, but if it meets the 04:11:13
criteria of the first things, then we're good. It's just adding in. 04:11:18
In addition to the criteria that we already came up with. 04:11:25
Unnecessary. OK, Do you feel like there needs to be any variances? This is what it is. Otherwise we have to scrub, scratch, and 04:11:29
all of that is Exhibit F. 04:11:32
I think there should be the possible variation of that description, yes. And it wouldn't go back to the Planning Commission. It 04:11:40
can remain here and rest here in this discussion. So really I'm just asking for your opinion because you've reviewed it a few 04:11:44
times, so I'm. 04:11:49
Like I said, I'm only just seeing this. 04:11:54
Now, and I don't know what the rest of the Planning Commission would say, that's OK. We're not talking about the Planning 04:11:58
Commission. We're talking about Bryce Brady. 04:12:02
I mean, it's hard to say. I don't know what some of these things are a rock climbing. I mean, like I said, anybody could throw 04:12:08
that up. 04:12:12
Like I've seen a skydive simulation in a in a warehouse garage. Like that's helpful. Thanks. 04:12:19
All right. I mean, any of these things could be. 04:12:28
They could be regionally significant. 04:12:33
If they're done right, but just saying them like I could have half these things in my backyard, so it's like. 04:12:36
It's not. 04:12:42
I think for the point, OK, so the question to the Council is, do you see any variances that need to be allowed in here or do you 04:12:45
want anything to be done under this attempt? We'll send it back to the Planning Commission. 04:12:51
OK. Anybody else? 04:12:58
I'm not even sure what we agree with. So Julie? 04:13:02
We're going to allow the bottom line of #2 no, like this all the red. We'll get rid of this, we'll send it back to the regional 04:13:06
anchor language and we will allow it to go back to the Planning Commission. So Julie, are are we saying that we don't know how to 04:13:11
spend money on such uncertainty? 04:13:17
OK. 04:13:23
This I I totally understand this. This is important. We we have an actual company that is coming in here. Many of us have seen it. 04:13:27
So the issue is. 04:13:31
Not have any kind of a baseline. Again, you read that criteria and you can start to think museums and zoos. Things got brought up. 04:13:37
I don't know how we park some of that. I don't know how the scale fits in some of that. 04:13:46
Right. Last time it was talking about cover the entirety of the park. I don't know. We're going to be subject to a lot of 04:13:50
discretion. 04:13:53
If we don't have some kind of a baseline to say, these things are reasonable. 04:13:57
And I don't know how we go spend design money. And then you kind of keep bringing a rock to the Planning Commission. Oh, that's 04:14:02
the wrong rock. Bring something else like that is a cycle that I've seen happen, and I'm really worried that it could happen here. 04:14:07
I actually do have some comments about this too. We know who the user is. That's okay. Some of us know who the user is, right? 04:14:17
And let's let's look at this for a second. 04:14:28
Say you don't know who the user. 04:14:30
Go back up to the image. 04:14:32
Imagine that it's a user that's really incredible and they happen to have pickleball courts. No, just, but follow me. 04:14:38
Somebody to meet the intent that understands the nuances of economic development. 04:15:19
You know what I mean? 04:15:23
Yeah, the community development director. 04:15:25
I do understand where Steve is coming from. It's like the concern is that you're providing. 04:16:00
Essentially the Planning Commission with ability to make a decision that could be our arbitrary and and and doesn't have a lot of 04:16:06
baseline. So he wants to provide some of those baselines in there. So it provides some reassurance. 04:16:13
And so, yeah, from a like from a staff side like where we're happy to do it, this is the world that we work in. But I I, I think 04:16:20
the Planning Commission could do as well. But I do understand where where Steve's concerns are 'cause you know you're you're 04:16:27
making several million dollar decision and potentially you could have an arbitrary decision, decision. 04:16:34
So. 04:16:42
But do you understand where we are already? 04:16:45
The McDonald's in a pickle, Bob. Course doesn't cut it. 04:16:49
I wish that would be great for us, that we could solve this. 04:16:53
We need to come to some kind of solution that says here's our criteria, who's here's going to vet it. 04:17:04
Like it was mentioned in a food court, 1/2 acre again, the outdoor activity area is 1/2 acre. What you're seeing here is actually 04:17:11
a full acre. 04:17:14
This this can't be McDonald's in a pickleball court. It wouldn't meet the criteria. 04:17:19
So that's our fear. 04:17:27
Right. But McDonald's is an 8000 square feet and it doesn't include an outdoor activity area that's 3/4 of an acre to 1 1/2 acres 04:17:29
that has programming in it, right? Like. 04:17:33
There are commercial enterprises out there that you can envision that meet this criteria. It's not like we're going. 04:17:41
Go build a garage and put some simulators in there. And it felt like that wouldn't make any sense for our development, right? Like 04:17:46
we have an incentive to bring quality, no doubt about it. So understanding the concerns of the council, do you have anything 04:17:51
compromise wise that you would feel comfortable with? Because that's where we are on the table. We need a compromise. Something 04:17:55
needs to come forward. 04:18:00
Is this something that, I mean, they're welcome to define it more? Is it something that could come back to the Planning 04:18:05
Commission? 04:18:08
You know, I think it was important. The question for us is. 04:18:43
Is this for the council? Do you feel comfortable with this? If you do not, then. 04:18:47
And the existing criteria still exists. It still has to have economic impact, right? It still has to have all of those things. 04:18:53
So if we bring a version of anyone of these descriptions that doesn't meet that criteria, fine. 04:18:59
Yeah. Can we just say, what do you think, can we say meets the criteria of the regional, this meets the criteria of the regional 04:19:04
anchor? 04:19:07
I don't know that it meets the criteria I. 04:19:13
I don't know as I read through it, that it does. 04:19:18
Can I suggest an option that might be? I think what I meant was could we say? 04:19:21
Whatever they bring that does meet this criteria has to try to meet the intent of the regional language. 04:19:25
You know what I mean. So you're not building a whatever in a garage? 04:19:31
I think you're making a land use approval, not a suggestion. It's an agreement. So Steve, give me a moment. 04:19:37
I think what? 04:19:44
If we were around a negotiating table and you were trying to find an agreement. 04:19:47
They have information, we don't. 04:19:52
We have preferences about what the zoning should be in the city. This really is a land use decision. Once it's approved, it's it's 04:19:55
set. If they come forward for site plans, they're entitled to that. 04:20:01
So you do need to make sure the language is something you're comfortable with, but you can approve this. 04:20:08
With this exhibit F stricken. 04:20:14
And that final sentence of one point 2.39 taken out. 04:20:18
And if the developer can't make that work, they can come back to the council for a revision to the development agreement. 04:20:23
And you can rework that criteria. 04:20:32
In a way that you think would function better. 04:20:35
OK, Council, what do you want to do? 04:20:39
Are these people waiting in line? We do not have a public hearing open right now, so. 04:20:42
I'm actually fine sending it to our. 04:20:51
Yeah, I feel good about the community development since it goes back through Planning Commission. 04:20:53
Wait, if it goes to the commun. 04:21:00
That wouldn't come back through the Planning Commission. So, so the side plan how it's set up right now just to clarify the, the 04:21:04
Planning Commission would make. 04:21:09
They would make that determination at before the first site plan. 04:21:13
And so if you sent, you sent it to the community development director, I would make the determination on whether or not it's 04:21:18
regionally significant and then the site plan itself would go to the to the Planning Commission. And I think what Jamie is 04:21:25
suggesting honestly I think that's that's really good suggestion is if if you know to move forward. 04:21:31
You know the applicant might not like it but striking F and then if if it's not workable, then they can come back to the and and 04:21:38
and go through the process to to to rework it. 04:21:44
And maybe it accomplishes the same. 04:21:51
But if the applicant wished to appeal? 04:21:54
The Planning Commission, the decision could we go to City Council? So there was two bodies and just a broader audience. 04:21:59
Of people to consider that. 04:22:04
And I. 04:22:08
Development agreement accomplished the same thing, but that may be a little more straightforward. 04:22:10
Jamie, was your recommendation to strike it and just have it go through that process or did it also include Morgan making the 04:22:15
decision and going to the site plan well? 04:22:20
I wasn't thinking about The Who approves the site plan part of it. 04:22:26
I'm I'm comfortable either way with what you decide there and. 04:22:32
Oh, sorry. I meant the determination of whether it was regionally significant or not. That's what I meant. I don't have a 04:22:38
preference whether it goes to the Planning Commission or. 04:22:42
Morgan for that approval, I think the site, to Morgan's point, the site plan has to come to the Planning Commission regardless. 04:22:48
I think Steve suggestion is a good one though. So if it gets, if it goes to Planning Commission that allows them to essentially 04:22:55
make make that determination. They can then appeal it and it goes to the City Council. A lot of language decisions have the 04:23:00
ability for for an appeal and that that just this is clarifies who the appeal authority would be. So Morgan are you saying that 04:23:06
you would? 04:23:11
You would rather that it just goes back to the city, the Planning Commission instead of having it get the approval from you go 04:23:17
through the site plan process with the Planning Commission. Yeah, I mean I I think the Planning Commission thought thought about 04:23:23
it really well and and going through the Planning Commission for the recommendation, I I could do it too. I mean I'm fine with 04:23:28
that, but going through the Planning Commission and then having the appeal. 04:23:33
You know, having like through the appeal authority is defined City Council, I I think that's that's very reasonable. I think I 04:23:40
understand. So you have an option, you want to put it through the Planning Commission. It could also they're asking for an appeal 04:23:45
for the City Council. Otherwise you could put it through the community development director for a decision and then it could go to 04:23:50
the site plan as it would normally go, so to sort of restate the whole package. 04:23:56
For purposes of making a motion it. 04:24:02
That we. 04:24:04
City Council approved the development agreement with the following revisions. 04:24:07
You would strike section 4.4. That's the section about the public infrastructure districts. 04:24:12
You would strike exhibit F and the last sentence of section one, point 2.39. 04:24:19
That refers to section. 04:24:25
And then we would keep in place. 04:24:28
Requirement that the determination of what is a regionally significant. 04:24:31
Entertainment. 04:24:36
And site plan approval would go to the Planning Commission. But if the Planning Commission rejects. 04:24:38
The developers proposal as what is a regionally significant entertainment? 04:24:45
That can be appealed to the City Council, Yes, Steve, is that right? 04:24:50
We could do that one the appeal to the City Council or the. 04:24:55
Community Development director and I don't care which one you guys want to do. 04:25:00
I think you put your planner in a difficult situation if he has to override the Planning Commission. 04:25:08
I just think on the I trust Morgan, but the org chart makes it hard for him, right? Regardless of who's in that. 04:25:17
Well, hold on one second. 04:25:26
Well, I don't know. I kind of want to talk more about green space. 04:25:29
Did you guys end up finding those numbers for me? 04:25:36
Yeah. So kind of the the request was but similar or like what it was been approved in the past for number units per per, per 04:25:40
acres. 04:25:45
I'll just ask this question. Is there any opportunity to expand the green space that we have right now? 04:25:51
In this. 04:25:57
In. 04:26:00
Is there a target area? 04:26:01
Yes, I'm looking for the green space along the belts on Geneva. 04:26:04
The three quarter acre land donation. 04:26:10
Just on the, I don't know, but bigger than three, yeah, but that's what's on the table today. 04:26:13
So today there's a three quarter acre land donation. 04:26:33
Right along the future Geneva trail, you're asking can that be expanded and this is behind the megaplex on Geneva just for the 04:26:37
public's understanding. Well, that's on your feet kind of question. 04:26:43
I think. 04:26:52
Two responses to that. 04:26:55
We've kind of explored it a little bit in past conversations, you know, so we understand where. 04:26:58
The desire there. 04:27:07
We went a little thread there on our overall economics and obviously bringing things down to where they are. So there's some 04:27:09
concern there. Just what is that, what does that do the. 04:27:15
Is we are in. 04:27:22
With a potential tenant. 04:27:24
That would take the remaining land there that I think the city would. 04:27:26
Really excited to have. I don't know how to weigh that. 04:27:29
I think. 04:27:35
If there's a way? 04:27:40
The economic right? I don't know. 04:27:42
From the tax increment generated or something else if there's a way to help close the economic gap on that but we made available 04:27:44
more land after a certain amount of time. 04:27:50
If this other opportunity doesn't materialize, which again I I. 04:27:56
Is something that Vineyard would be really excited. 04:28:00
Steve, can you say like category wise what what you're looking at or going to keep quiet? I wish I could. I really have to. I 04:28:03
really have to honor the negotiations I've been. 04:28:09
And those. 04:28:14
And and not sure market data so. 04:28:16
That's just, that's just integrity to to to honor those agreements. So I apologize. 04:28:23
So. 04:28:32
Option to expand it. 04:28:35
I think we could be open to something along those lines if there's middle ground to find a way to do that. OK, How would you write 04:28:37
that? 04:28:40
What would you recommend? What would you feel comfortable with? 04:28:47
I don't want to say it because if I say it, it's going to be extreme, you know. 04:28:51
I'm gonna ask for everything. 04:28:55
Well, I think it depends on. 04:28:59
Is there an opportunity for the city to purchase more land there? Yes. Are there other adjacent parcels? 04:29:02
That you could also consider an opportunity to expand that from three quarters acres, yes. 04:29:07
So I just think there's a lot of optionality. I don't know how to deal with it here, but if you want us to put some generic 04:29:12
language in there about. 04:29:15
You know applicant will provide an option. 04:29:19
For the city to purchase additional land after, you know, two years if if, if there hasn't been another user identified. 04:29:23
Something along those. 04:29:30
I'm. I'm OK with that. 04:29:32
But that's. 04:29:38
You know, that's just being quick on the feed. 04:29:41
Morgan, do you have any recommendations as I was kind of looking at those numbers and considering that? 04:29:50
Million Pence ask. 04:29:56
Sorry guys, I know you want to go home and go to sleep. 04:30:00
Yeah. 04:30:04
What Let me think. I mean, I I know in the past. 04:30:06
I believe like the in the February and Steve you can correct me or Jimmy you might remember this, I was at 1.5. 04:30:09
Acres What? What the city was looking at and that and that. 04:30:17
So that would basically be about half of that. 04:30:22
In the February, the February it was, it was one acre. So we reduced it 25% just like the residential, but there was an option 04:30:27
right, to purchase another half acre, there was option. 04:30:31
A potential city purchase. So there, I mean that's an area that like you're saying let's go up to 1 anchor with an option to buy 04:30:38
more. 04:30:42
Yeah, yeah. I mean if you, if you wanted to go back to that that that original, I mean that that would be a proposal that we could 04:30:48
see. 04:30:52
The other tenant wouldn't fit. They need exactly what's left, but we can put in there something. 04:30:56
That will negotiate in good faith to either bring this tenant. 04:31:01
Right. If the city's interested in that or the city has the opportunity to purchase additional. 04:31:05
Where were we going to put the other the one acre? Where would that fit inside here? 04:31:11
Same area as the three. 04:31:17
All right, it was. It was back behind the theater here. 04:31:21
You're also bumping an opportunity. 04:31:27
You think we'll we'll lose it? So what if we? I don't, I mean. 04:31:31
Once they do a site plan there may be some with some wiggle room. Again we'll negotiate in good faith. It is just to kind of add 04:31:36
from like an economic development perspective where your 650 is going to connect into into Geneva and that that corner honestly is 04:31:43
a really great corner for for for future business whether it's retail or or or whatnot. So I I don't know exactly what size we 04:31:49
would need, but I I would be reluctant to say let's do like the whole thing is that something space I I think an option would be a 04:31:55
really great opportunity but. 04:32:02
You know if we got, if we got the we'll go ahead and do an option council. Do you feel good about that? I heard these things. No 04:32:10
tandem parking. We solved the parking issue. Remove PID language. We're going to. 04:32:16
Strike section. 04:32:22
Is that right or was it 4.4? 04:32:24
Exhibit AF 4.4 with the appeal process to go back to the City Council and we'll have an option on land. 04:32:28
That will work out and you'll work in good faith. Could we be kind of mayor just so is it. So it's a the land donation is still 04:32:36
three quarter acre with an option to go up to one acre is. 04:32:43
What I was saying was I wanted you to go up to one acre and give us an option. 04:32:51
But then we just didn't come up with a you said we were gonna lose a tenant, you know? So that's what I'd like to see. 04:32:57
Go up to an acre with an option but if we can only do an option because we're going to lose some variation if it was that I mean 04:33:04
it is a park and and so there'll need to be some parking So I would I would suggest that if it's a recreation based. 04:33:10
Type type business, but then maybe there's there's some shared parking that that can occur there. It's going to be a a trail. The 04:33:17
idea is to because you can see from the plan how you have pockets of of of like parks on the periphery. The idea was to provide 04:33:24
kind of another park there that would be a a public park. 04:33:30
We want to make a motion. I think we're just going to put it in. What is it? What is the wording we can use? 04:33:38
I don't want anything. 04:33:47
So if it's a. 04:33:49
Yeah. So if we keep it at the either at the three fourth acre or if you want to do the full acre that there that when the parking 04:33:51
lot is instructed for the the, the park that it it be a shared. 04:33:59
Parking lot between the park and the and the commercial user if it's a recreational use because. 04:34:08
I don't know exactly who they're talking about, but I think with that if you if you had something that was recreation based that 04:34:15
could work well next to a park, I mean that the two actually could could be really cohesive together, OK. Does that work for you? 04:34:21
The concept of shared parking isn't a concern at all, yeah. 04:34:33
I think that's what I heard that was different because your parking would. 04:34:37
Pretty much absorb that that corner acre. So are you saying an option on a park? 04:34:40
With but actual shared parking plans. 04:34:46
In the park and you'll work in good faith in case those other options don't workout. 04:34:52
OK. 04:34:58
Council, did you understand? Do you need help on a motion because everybody feel comfortable? 04:35:00
Jamie, do you need us to state anything out or do you feel like we've gotten everything? 04:35:08
Let me read my notes. 04:35:14
And I think I have everything. 04:35:16
The the motion would be. 04:35:19
To make sure the right one as previously stated, now you're adding. 04:35:23
Her need for the shared parking strike section 4.4 Strike exhibit F in the last section sentence of section one point 2.39. 04:35:32
Keep the language about Planning Commission approval of the proposed regionally significant entertainment anchor. Add the 04:35:41
developer right to appeal that decision to the City Council if the Planning Commission denies their proposal. 04:35:48
Add that there will be no tandem parking in the development. 04:35:56
And then add that when the parking lot is constructed, the park the parking lot shall be shared between commercial and park user. 04:36:01
If the shared parking frees up additional park space, then the city shall be given the option. 04:36:09
On that space. 04:36:14
And remove the PID language. That's section 4.40. That's four point. 04:36:15
OK, OK, good. 04:36:20
OK, so I have a motion that we I do apologize. 04:36:23
I said the only place would ever do tandem is if there was a grudge, right? So you have to have an enclosed garage inside of the 04:36:28
garage. 04:36:31
I just don't. Standard parking wouldn't. Is that a concern? This would be very limited. This would be like. 04:36:34
510% of the supply. I don't mind if you have 10 and parking. I just don't want it to count towards the tenants. Does that make 04:36:40
sense? 04:36:45
I just want to throw that out. So do we need to put no tanning park tandem parking that counts towards Towards parking? Is that 04:36:49
OK? 04:36:53
It shouldn't count or it shouldn't. 04:36:59
It shouldn't be utilized for retail or commercial uses. That's going to be extremely frustrating for someone. If they go to 04:37:01
dinner, they come out and they have to wait for someone else to thinking just like even like lakefront tells us that's where some 04:37:06
people are using their garage versus parking in that driveway or having to wait for their roommates to pull out. Yeah, we don't 04:37:11
want to duplicate that. 04:37:16
OK. So do we need to add the commercial aspect in as well or I think I have it. 04:37:25
OK, go ahead. 04:37:31
I'm reluctant. 04:37:34
All right. 04:37:38
Mayor I move that we approve Resolution 2023 Dash 54 development agreement for the Forge with the noted additions. 04:37:40
That's proposed. 04:37:50
Poorly by our. 04:37:52
Legal counsel, OK, we have a first fight ICE with the noted changes. 04:37:54
Second Second by Amber. This is done by Roll call Tice. Amber. Yay, Marty. 04:38:00
Christy. 04:38:06
OK, we'll go ahead and move into our Can you tell me what Marty's, what, what did Marty vote? 04:38:08
Public Hearing Peace District, The creation of a hidden resolution 2023-58 and Jamie will lead us in this discussion our City 04:38:17
Attorney. 04:38:23
Give me just one moment, OK? 04:38:31
While you do that. 04:38:34
Okay. 04:39:23
OK. 04:39:26
There are two items back-to-back on the agenda. The 1st is item 9.8 and the next is item 9.9. 04:39:28
They both relate to applications the city has. 04:39:36
To create public infrastructure districts. Jamie, are you gonna open a public hearing? 04:39:40
We can do that in a minute. I'll introduce it and then that can open the public hearing. 04:39:46
The the 1st is the creation of a public infrastructure district in the East Geneva area. I'll show an image in a minute. It'll 04:39:50
show where these are located and the applicant. 04:39:55
Can speak to that as well. And then the second is for creation of public infrastructure districts in the West portion. 04:40:01
I wanted before we talk about the specific application to give. 04:40:09
A general overview of public infrastructure districts as I understand them. 04:40:14
This is meant. 04:40:18
An overview of the topic. 04:40:21
A means of hopefully answering some questions that people will have about what this is and what the. 04:40:24
Roll in it may be and then also as a way to jog. 04:40:29
Thoughts and questions that people may have. 04:40:36
About this, so cash, we go to Slide 2. 04:40:38
So what is the Public Infrastructure District? 04:40:44
Public infrastructure districts are fairly new in Utah. They're not new nationally. 04:40:48
But a few years ago, the state legislature made a change and introduced public infrastructure districts, and they're beginning to 04:40:54
be used in a lot of different cities and developments throughout the state. 04:40:59
A public infrastructure district creates an independent local government entity. 04:41:05
And those entities are governed under the Local District Act. 04:41:10
They're created, they create a new tax revenue stream. They have the right to impose a mill levy. 04:41:15
That's a property tax levy. It's capped at a certain amount by statute. 04:41:21
And that mill levy can then be used to fund, finance and construct public infrastructure. 04:41:27
And what we're talking about here for these particular projects are things like. 04:41:33
Streets, storm water, infrastructure, sewer parks, trails. 04:41:37
Open space. 04:41:43
As the type of infrastructure that might be. 04:41:44
Funded by the Public Infrastructure District. Financed by the Public Infrastructure District and constructed. 04:41:48
By the Public Infrastructure District. 04:41:54
Unlike special service districts, local districts, other types of. 04:41:56
Governmental entities like. 04:42:03
Kids do not have the ability. 04:42:05
Maintain this infrastructure long term. So what they do is they build it, they build it, the city standards. 04:42:08
And then it's turned over to the city, and the city owns it, just like it would any other public infrastructure. 04:42:15
Let me go to the next slide. 04:42:21
I apologize for the small text here. I wanted to keep this at about four or five slides. 04:42:24
The purpose, scope and power of pits. So we've talked a little bit about the first one it's it facilitates the funding and 04:42:29
construction. 04:42:33
It assesses property taxes on the proper. 04:42:38
Owners within the boundaries. 04:42:42
Of the PIT, so the application comes from. 04:42:44
The owner of the property or the owners of the property sometimes. 04:42:47
In this one, it's a single. 04:42:51
They issued debt repayable from those property taxes. 04:42:54
They have the broad powers to finance public infrastructure of many types. 04:42:58
They have the authority to bond against the revenues that they receive. 04:43:03
The city's role they the. 04:43:08
Receives the pet. 04:43:13
We agreed a governing documents and approved those governing documents and that's the cities most significant role. 04:43:15
In the creation of the. 04:43:22
And then I'll just note on the final two bullets that one of the things Pids also can do is help you enhance the public 04:43:25
infrastructure that's put into a development. So instead of getting the bare bones. 04:43:31
You'll have additional resources that you can get something a little bit nicer. 04:43:37
And a little bit better for the. 04:43:41
And then the public financing, of course. 04:43:43
Get more amenities or better amenities for a city. 04:43:47
Those public dollars are cheaper to finance. 04:43:51
Then if you were to go to private markets as a developer. 04:43:55
Next slide. 04:43:59
So the creation process, how are they created? 04:44:02
The developer or property owner has to have 100% consent within the properties that are applying for the pit. 04:44:05
That's an easy equation here because we have a single property owner who's making the application and the entire. 04:44:12
The proposed bids are all within that property owner's property. 04:44:20
They retain counsel. They incur those costs of being the creating entity. 04:44:25
And allowing the pit to be created, they make a petition to the. 04:44:32
And then the city arrives where we are today. 04:44:36
Review the proposed governing documents. We suggest edits. We negotiate over what's in them, what's in them. 04:44:39
And then the City Council can contemplate that approval of and that adoption of the of the governing documents. And that would. 04:44:46
Authorized the creation of the. 04:44:55
The governing documents touch on four significant things. They talk about the property types that can be taxed. 04:44:59
And I'll go through that in a moment. 04:45:06
They talk about the mill rate and the borrowing limits that would apply to the. 04:45:08
They talk about the composition and the membership of the board. 04:45:14
For the pit and then they talk about the types of infrastructure. 04:45:18
That are eligible, eligible to be funded, financed and constructed under the pit And I guess the way I would think of that is. 04:45:23
The PIT statute gives you a big list, and you can pair that list down. 04:45:29
To things that are. 04:45:33
Relevant to that particular development. 04:45:35
Next slide. 04:45:38
So this is the map of the proposed downtown. 04:45:41
The the proposal, and I'm not going to go too into depth on this, but the applicant can answer questions if they'd like about it 04:45:45
would be. 04:45:49
You in the Governing documents provide for kids within these two boundaries the. 04:45:53
East and the West. Boundary 1 here in pink, one here in orange. 04:46:00
And then within those boundaries you will have. 04:46:04
Five smaller PEDs that would be controlled by the. 04:46:08
Controlling Pit. 04:46:12
A lot of you live in homes that are controlled by homeowners associations, and some of those homeowners associations have. 04:46:14
A master HOA and then you have smaller HO. 04:46:22
And the master will be over things that apply to the whole neighborhood and development. 04:46:26
And then the sub age always would apply. 04:46:32
Your your own building or the few buildings that are massed together? 04:46:35
And this would operate pretty similar. 04:46:40
The primary idea behind kids is that you can localize the tax impact of development. 04:46:43
So when you create the PID, you're basically. 04:46:48
The the developers basically saying we want to tax our own development to provide for the infrastructure and not tax the city at 04:46:53
large. 04:46:57
To pay for that infrastructure. 04:47:01
And then within the sub Pids in each of these areas. 04:47:03
They can localize the impact of those. 04:47:08
Taxing entities. 04:47:11
So let me go through what's in. 04:47:13
Kind of broad brush strokes what's in these two agreements? 04:47:16
Or the two governing documents. 04:47:19
The. 04:47:21
And these pits are proposed to apply only to commercial and multi family properties. 04:47:23
The multi family properties will not. 04:47:29
Owner occupied properties. And so the way I think about the proposal put forward by the developer is it's a proposed tax on the 04:47:32
properties they intend to hold and keep. 04:47:37
It's not a tax on anyone. 04:47:43
Purchases a home and lives in their home. 04:47:46
Within the pit. 04:47:49
So there is no tax on owner occupied residential within the P. 04:47:50
And there's no tax outside of the PID boundaries. 04:47:55
It's authorized by the governing documents. 04:47:59
The mill levy is capped at 15. 04:48:02
I'm not a math whiz. I'm not going to go in depth on this. The applicant can answer some of. 04:48:05
But what it means is 0.015 dollars. 04:48:09
Per dollar of taxable value of the taxable property. 04:48:14
Within the. 04:48:18
And keep. 04:48:19
The taxable property is just the commercial. 04:48:21
And the multi. 04:48:24
Owned by the developer. 04:48:27
The debt limit for the two Pids is set at 1 billion for the West PID and 500 million for the East. 04:48:30
And then the final bullet is just a reminder that the documents require adherence to city standards and city requirements. 04:48:38
And so when the infrastructure is built, it's built according to those standards and those requirements. 04:48:46
The city has no obligation to accept that infrastructure. 04:48:51
And less. 04:48:55
It deems that the requirements. 04:48:57
And then we negotiated into the governing documents that. 04:49:00
This won't just be the standards that exist today, but as the city standards grow and evolve. 04:49:04
Or change. 04:49:09
Whenever the infrastructure. 04:49:11
The standards at the time it's filter the standards that will apply. 04:49:14
To the pit. 04:49:17
So that's kind of broad brush what's before the council. 04:49:19
The applicants here and I know they can answer questions specific to what they're seeking in the application, what their reasons 04:49:23
might be for. 04:49:27
Asking for it, but that's an overview of the. 04:49:31
And then kind of a high level summary of what's in the governing document? 04:49:34
The board composition will be. 04:49:39
Individuals. 04:49:45
That are named in the governing documents and then the Council, when it approves the governing documents today, would be 04:49:47
approving. 04:49:50
The board composition in those documents. 04:49:54
OK, let's go ahead and open a public hearing. 04:49:58
So move first by Marty, second by ties. All in favor, OK? 04:50:02
Public Do you have comments? If you do, can you come up and state your name and make your comment? 04:50:09
OK. Sorry, Evan, I'm on utah.gov. 04:50:23
On. 04:50:28
And I'm just have a question about the interaction with the tax increment finance the TIF. 04:50:30
It says that kids can act as counterparty to RDA revenues. 04:50:37
Thereby creating a tax exempt BOR. 04:50:43
To capitalize the. 04:50:46
Without having third party debt on RDA balance. 04:50:48
So does that mean? 04:50:52
Will you be tax exempt when you're doing this? 04:50:53
To be what they be exempt from taxes if. 04:50:56
Develop a pit. Yeah. So it's important to recognize that the pit is a government entity. 04:51:01
When it's once it's created, it's a it's a small little government that operates within this area. 04:51:07
It has really limited authority as it relates to its function and its purpose. It's only to build and and. 04:51:13
Provide that infrastructure not to operate it, not to do anything long term. 04:51:20
Once all the infrastructure is built, then the pit. 04:51:24
And and wind. 04:51:28
We One of the things the city has to think about in this whole process is long term. 04:51:30
How do we care for the assets in the downtown? 04:51:36
That's part of the site plan approval process, but it also will need to be. 04:51:39
Part of the long term conversation here of do you provide for the maintenance through a special service district? 04:51:46
Which is what I think may be the best solution right now. 04:51:54
Do you wait and see whether the PIT authorities expanded at a later point? 04:51:58
So we have a little marker in the governing documents that states. 04:52:03
If the authority of Pids is expanded, where it can maintain and construct? 04:52:07
Then they can come to the city, seek approval to expand the governing document to include that authority. 04:52:13
But we're not making that decision today. 04:52:19
And then? 04:52:21
On your question about RDA funds, yes, they they function together and can be paired together and the PID can do. 04:52:23
The financing and the procure. 04:52:33
Of those public infrastructure improvements and the way it would be different than just a straight reimbursement agreement is. 04:52:35
When it's a straight reimbursement agreement, the developer does the procurement we require. They follow competitive procurement 04:52:42
rules, but they do it as a private entity. 04:52:46
And the PIT would do a procurement as a public entity, not as a private entity. 04:52:51
OK, I have another question. 04:52:57
About defaulting. 04:53:01
In the In the event, the proceeds of limited tax are insufficient to meet annual debt service as it comes due. 04:53:06
It is not an event of def. 04:53:14
Bondholder has no statutory. 04:53:17
To require additional taxes or. 04:53:20
No statutory recourse to the property or property. 04:53:23
And then it says bonds can be sold in Dunno. 04:53:28
Denominations. Excuse me, half. 04:53:32
So is that your plan? 04:53:36
Do denominations of 500. 04:53:40
For the West and. 04:53:44
Yeah. I'll take the first half and then you take the second-half. I think the first half of your question is if if the pit 04:53:48
defaults on its bond, what happens to the city? 04:53:52
And the answer is the ped's a separate entity from the city. 04:53:56
The city has no financial obligation based on what debt the pit incurs. 04:54:00
Its debt is not on the city's books. It's a separate entity, and then Matt can talk about the next. 04:54:05
I'd like to. I'd like to know how. 04:54:12
That default is solved. I mean, who pays for? 04:54:15
So sorry. It's a risk the bondholder takes. Yeah so this so the the reason why Mac Woodbury Land owner. 04:54:21
The reason why the if the fit is really it's an additional levy that is just on our side effectively an income that we would have. 04:54:29
That's why the it's like if we went to a bank or any lender they would underwrite the assets. 04:54:34
One reason why we're limiting them to commercial assets is because they're gonna underwrite the analyze. 04:54:40
And underwrite, you know the cash flow that's available and they're taking that risk. And so just like any lender that would make 04:54:44
a commercial loan and anywhere would take the risk on whether or not those payments are going to come through. So there's what 04:54:49
we're really trying to do with the ideas is get the infrastructure. 04:54:54
Quicker and more efficiently, but then also make sure they're not burdening anybody outside of our district with any of that risk 04:54:59
or cost. 04:55:02
And so this is the only vehicle that we have in our state that allows you to do something like that. 04:55:06
OK. I have one more another question. The governing board. 04:55:11
They'll be you, Nate and Pete. 04:55:15
And who else? 04:55:20
Is it just you 2 principles or are there more to be on the governing board? 04:55:22
Pete Evans for the developer. So the governing the governing board will be the ownership group and the reason why the governing 04:55:33
board in this case. 04:55:37
So a lot of concern with some of the concern with kids is a lack of representation. 04:55:43
Of the people that are being. 04:55:49
In this case, the only people who are being taxed are the land owners. 04:55:51
So there will not be property that's sold to end users for, for example, in a townhome that has to pay the paid. 04:55:56
They will be exempt from the pit. 04:56:04
So the only it's really just a borrowing. 04:56:07
Mechanism. 04:56:10
So we're adding an additional mill levy that's just a fractional tax. 04:56:11
On our own property. 04:56:19
And then paying it back over. 04:56:21
Through that collection over 25. 04:56:26
How many meals are we going to be taxing? I don't know. So we we have a financial consultant under contract right now they're the 04:56:29
cap is is 15. 04:56:33
I mean, we haven't done the analysis to see if we would go all the way up to 15 mills, but again. 04:56:39
Because there's no one else in the Mill levy area. 04:56:46
Then it's really just a loan to ourselves. Can you explain those for everyone? Yeah, so. So a mill is just a. 04:56:51
A financial term. 04:56:58
.00 so it's basically one thousandth of a percent. 04:57:00
So if the normal property tax. 04:57:05
1% the. 04:57:09
And you added 15 mills, your new property tax would be 1.15%. 04:57:11
OK, another question. 04:57:20
As governing board will be a certain number of years. 04:57:23
And then you have. 04:57:28
Having board. 04:57:29
And they're supposed to live in the. 04:57:31
Are you, are you going to require them to live in the east or the West or what is on the east and what is the West where they can 04:57:34
live? Yeah. So if we were going to transfer property. 04:57:39
And the PID levy went with that property. So for example if we sold a townhome. 04:57:45
And that townhome user was then was then obligated to repay this. 04:57:51
No, this levy for the next 25 years. 04:57:56
Then we would have to transition that board over to people who lived in the pit and were paying that money. 04:57:59
In this case, we're not. 04:58:06
So we're we're not, we're not asking anybody that is going to purchase property in here to pay that LE. 04:58:08
For the next 25 or whatever years, so it'll just be. 04:58:16
Both paying the tax. 04:58:20
And capturing. 04:58:24
The mill levy. 04:58:27
For the duration of the. 04:58:29
25 years, yeah. 04:58:33
Correct. So keep in mind, Daria, there are terms to the board and they're staggered so that when the terms begin to lapse, they 04:58:35
don't all lapse at the same time. 04:58:40
And then if you. 04:58:45
Yes. And if. 04:58:46
If a board member, when their term expires, no longer serves or they withdraw from serving on the board, then the city has a voice 04:58:49
in in who's appointed to fill that vacancy. 04:58:54
But it has to be someone that lives here. 04:59:00
No, the pit statute allows. 04:59:03
Pit board members that do not live in the pit and I think that's a recognition that. 04:59:07
Most Pids are created by developers making that application. 04:59:12
And they're creating it when nobody lives there. 04:59:16
And they may own the property but not live there like the circumstance we're talking about. 04:59:21
The pid levy will apply only to. 04:59:27
Commercial ventures. 04:59:31
You know properties own commercial and use for commercial purposes and then commercial ventures that own. 04:59:33
The for rent multifamily housing. 04:59:39
OK, so let me make sure I get this correct. 04:59:43
So any of the residential will. 04:59:46
Any of the residential that sold to end users will not be subject to the levy. 04:59:51
Correct. And that and again I mean that's one of the big. 04:59:57
That's one of the big issues that some people have with kids is that you have people that. 05:00:02
But might buy a townhome or a home and then they have this additional tax on their property tax for the next 25 years. 05:00:07
So I think. 05:00:15
The city attorney and the city staff did a really good job of looking at what are some of the shortcomings of kids and negotiating 05:00:16
those things. 05:00:20
So that the only people paying this mill levy are. 05:00:25
The commercial property owners and developers. 05:00:31
Thank you. 05:00:38
Come on up. 05:00:40
It's not hearing. I'm not going to pretend to know anything about his, but it's been a fun week of trying to learn. 05:00:44
I would like to ask though if you guys feel this is in the best interest of the city. 05:00:51
OK, well, we haven't voted on. I'm not asking for a vote. You feel like this is the best, in the best interests of the city? 05:00:57
Maybe. Jamie, since you don't vote, can I ask you that? No. No, I didn't. No, I mean, I don't know. So that wouldn't be a 05:01:02
question. 05:01:06
I think the council will get to a point where it will vote and you'll know by their vote what they think on it. I think they want 05:01:12
to hear from everybody first. If you feel like it's in the best interest of the city now, it's probably going to be in the best 05:01:16
interest of the city in two months. 05:01:21
So why? 05:01:26
Why not more education process for the public, for yourselves, for all five of you, for the two incoming? 05:01:29
And I find it hard to believe that. 05:01:36
I don't know. You guys, correct me if I'm wrong, has spent that much time studying the Pids and how it affects everything in a 05:01:38
relationship, the Rdas and the port that's coming in and there's everything going on. 05:01:43
Again, I could be wrong. You could have spent the last six months going over, I don't know. But if it's in the best interest of 05:01:49
the city now, it will be in the best interest of the city in two months. 05:01:54
OK. Thank. 05:01:59
Ryan Hoboy resident. 05:02:06
My line of thought is similar to Shawn's Umm. I lived in Orem for about 9 years and. 05:02:09
Got to drive by the monstrosity of the Midtown project. 05:02:16
It feels like this project is an attempt to shift some risk. 05:02:20
From the developer into the pit which? 05:02:25
We may or may not know who's going to be responsible for those. 05:02:28
Risks in the future because you know, they assume it and they have to have to sell the property which we saw through the Midtown 05:02:31
project and a whole blank site of. 05:02:35
Who knows what material that was for years? 05:02:39
And I have concerns. 05:02:43
That responsibility shouldn't be assumed by a developer. As a developer, there's a risk and a reward, and that reward is often 05:02:47
very large. 05:02:50
And but that comes because of the risk. 05:02:54
And they're shifting that. 05:02:57
With this, it feels that way and along with SE. 05:02:59
I haven't had time to dig into this. You guys may have spent months on this reviewing it and they feel more comfortable making 05:03:03
this decision. 05:03:06
But to call a public commentary 24 hours after it's posted on public notice? It's a little short notice for me. 05:03:10
To stand up at this pulpit and have an educated. 05:03:17
So I would appreciate having more time to review it myself and then having another public comment period so I can be educated. 05:03:20
From this pulpit and maybe half the seasons I made today were. 05:03:27
But I haven't had time to do that research. 05:03:30
So I would appreciate that consideration. 05:03:32
Yeah, I. 05:03:38
My comment is. 05:03:40
You know, this is the first time I see Vineyard or Utah City being, hey, we need. 05:03:44
To be created so that we can go get government loans and be bonding. 05:03:50
Ever. 05:03:57
We just barely had a very long election where it was. 05:03:58
You know, and the voice was very loud and. 05:04:03
You know, one sided. 05:04:06
When you do that and it's like now we're going to create. 05:04:08
Allow the developer to create a government entity. 05:04:12
And to create their own board in a 24 hour period and give them access to go as much as $1.5 billion. 05:04:17
And oh you know, in a 24 hour period. 05:04:27
And once they are created, you're right, we have no oversight of that at all. Now they might be great and they might go through 05:04:33
and be able to build that infrastructure. But my my question is, is if Utah City is so great, why not go out and get the capital 05:04:39
and the investors themselves Why, why do you need if if you're you're obviously turning to a government entity for us to create 05:04:46
you as a government entity so that you can be treated that way and get better financial things. That's a big commitment that Utah 05:04:52
City is. 05:04:59
We're hearing for the first time in 24 hours that this is going to be they need government financing. 05:05:06
To shift to that right, none of our taxpayers have been told that until the last 24 hours right that it will be a government 05:05:11
entity financed. 05:05:16
So my aunt my question is is? 05:05:22
How long of a process would you give citizens? 05:05:25
To think about a $1.5 billion loan like you know for them to be and for them to. 05:05:29
Do you have access to this as an independent government entity? 05:05:38
I submit to you it wouldn't be a two week period. 05:05:42
I mean, I had a very big, long decision. 05:05:46
And I bet to they're good men. We've fought out in the hallway last meeting for two hours and I really enjoyed the back and forth 05:05:50
and and I actually saw a lot of integrity in them as we flushed out a lot of things. Me and Sarah, we were out there till 1:00 in 05:05:55
the morning. 05:06:01
And so it could be that it is the. 05:06:06
But in terms of do government process and also the board, the interview process of interviewing those three men and the and the 05:06:10
citizens ability to look at their character because you are putting 1.5 billion in their hands. 05:06:17
And treating them like so there's a lot of government and being thrown out. This myself for working with the National League of 05:06:25
Cities. 05:06:28
There would be a lot of government process in terms of public. 05:06:32
Ability to talk about. 05:06:38
I don't know three to six months, but but I do like the creativity if if it is so needed for cleaning up. But I see it as bad 05:06:42
faith if it's something you're going to be approving tonight. It's like how if this was the int. 05:06:49
Why didn't we know about this for like the last month or two months or three months of saying this is the intent that we're going 05:06:56
to go, you know, when? 05:06:59
A $1.5 billion project, it was like, well, we're going to need 100 million, a 200,000,300 million. You know, this is a very long, 05:07:04
large sum. 05:07:08
So was it kept from us? I'm not saying bad intent for you guys, but was it? This is just a really lot to take in right now. And 05:07:13
then And then the other thing is. 05:07:18
We have not seen this in Utah County. 05:07:25
So what makes it the risk that vineyard? 05:07:29
You know, and also across the state in terms of Pids when I spoke, when I spoke with the inland port. 05:07:34
Ben was awesome. We're against Pids. We don't like them. We don't want to do it. The pit will not be connected to us. 05:07:42
So why was his opinion on? 05:07:47
He's like if it is doing, it's the city's doing and that scared me because it was like. 05:07:50
You know, so why is there against? We also have the head of the Republican Party come right and say don't do it. This is taxation 05:07:55
without representation. We're going to be setting up a government entity with these. Fine. 05:08:01
You know which are great, but it comes back to citizens of. 05:08:07
Our citizens will never have the ability to vote those three people. If they're doing good within the first two years, they will 05:08:11
never be able to pivot and and and shift. 05:08:15
On a 1.5 billion, right? So that's scary because we changed then. Have you seen elections and we say, hey, we need to pivot and 05:08:20
this would be for 25 years, these are the guys forever. 05:08:25
Well, if they're going to respond to that comment, go ahead. 05:08:36
I just wanted to clarify. So the those borrowings are the total limits over the entire term of the PID. 05:08:41
So there wouldn't be anyone thing and again. 05:08:47
Just our own money that we would be, that we would eat, that they're having. 05:08:51
It would just be our own cash that we have generated from the assets that would be then being used to pay back that debt. It 05:08:55
wouldn't ever be any type of the whole purpose of the pit that we've created was to limit this to commercial property. 05:09:01
A lot of the pins and a lot of backlash you've seen against Pids when they were first coming into as perfectly clarified it was 05:09:07
because it was on residential property and it was that additional levy. 05:09:12
This is commercial assets. This is our own money just coming back to paper debt. 05:09:18
And it's really in response to the market they're in right now. There ISN. 05:09:23
It's a financing tool with our own money S we tax ourselves, use that tax to borrow from different lenders than some of the other 05:09:26
lenders we've used for with that same money anyway, so. 05:09:31
Just. 05:09:37
Just wrote Evan, so just one quick point of clarification. So I I totally agree with Jake that if there was taxation without 05:09:40
representation. 05:09:45
We would have to have a lot longer discussion about this. 05:09:51
The reality is the taxation has perfect representation. 05:09:55
Because we're the only party being taxed. 05:09:59
And so we are both the. 05:10:03
Beneficiary and the taxing source. 05:10:08
And so there there, there isn't anybody outside of the pit boundaries. 05:10:10
That will have a tax levy imposed upon them because of these pits. 05:10:15
And there's no one within the PID boundaries. 05:10:20
That's a residential end. 05:10:23
That will have the tax levy levied upon them either. 05:10:25
So the again, just to be clear, the only people that will be paying this tax will be. 05:10:29
Chip Price, Providence. 05:10:42
So my my question is for Amber. 05:10:45
What is a pit? 05:10:49
No. 05:10:53
Christy, can you explain to me what a pit is? 05:10:55
OK. 05:11:00
I'm not. I'm not trying. I'm I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to make people feel stupid because I I I don't understand what they 05:11:03
are. 05:11:06
And and and I know that you guys are gearing up for a vote on a thing. 05:11:11
That that I that you need to understand. 05:11:16
So can I respond to that? 05:11:21
I feel like I understand what it is. I've been researching it, I've been having meetings and I feel like I've learned a lot And to 05:11:22
me it it makes sense and I understand the concerns of it. One thing that I. 05:11:28
Is that it's just like what he. 05:11:34
It's not being, it's not residents being. 05:11:37
The landowner being taxed, they're the landowner and that's basically just getting them lower interest rates on loans filled 05:11:40
infrastructure that says RDA money. So we're not having to pay for that infrastructure through our RDA, then we can use that for 05:11:45
other things. Am I right? Am I so far right? 05:11:50
And then? 05:11:56
I I just see it as a benefit because lower interest rates are going to make things more affordable for the people coming in to 05:11:58
rent their properties. 05:12:02
I understand 100% that if the public feels like they need more time, I don't mind waiting to vote on this for two weeks. 05:12:08
But as of right now I feel really comfortable with it. Just. 05:12:15
It makes sense to me. So you can see our, you can see our concern in that in that there's there's a significant amount of tax base 05:12:19
that's involved in this type of proposal. 05:12:25
And we don't really understand what it is that the city gets out of it. Like what? What's the benefit for us? Is it, is it a 05:12:31
benefit for the builder? Is it? And so there's there's a lot of those types of things. Can I add this one is important. 05:12:39
They are going to be paying a higher tax than what normally we would pay. So I kind of think about it when they were when Oren was 05:12:47
talking about doing their split from Alpine School District. 05:12:53
And we were all sick. Not everyone had the same opinion. A majority of. 05:12:58
Politicians I guess is the best way to put are people that were for Orem school district were sick of paying for Saratoga schools. 05:13:06
And so for me I see it kind of like this PID. 05:13:13
Is going to pay for itself like we're generating money from the developer they're taking loans against themselves and then we as 05:13:17
residents in Southern Vineyard don't have to pay for their infrastructure. Does that make sense? I mean I I I'm, I'm understanding 05:13:24
I'm understanding what you're saying. I just I I think that you know there's some due diligence there that we we we want more 05:13:31
information like if if they're going to be paying a high tax benefit or burden for this. 05:13:38
Why would they want it like? Because it gets them more access to bonds and lower interest rates so that they can build. 05:13:45
Faster and better infrastructure. I mean, these are all questions I've had this week, though, and I've had the opportunity. I've 05:13:53
called several people, I've met with several people, and I I agree. I think this information needs to be widely known. But I just. 05:14:00
I'm answering your questions so I I can share what I've learned. Yeah, OK. 05:14:07
Do you have more questions? 05:14:12
Go back to the microphone. Sorry. Yeah, I listen to the explanation and I I I I think I'm a pretty intelligent person. And I I. 05:14:16
Think I'd get it, but there's so much that I don't know that it makes me really, really concerned that we're that there's almost a 05:14:25
$2 billion price tag attached to a thing. 05:14:31
And there's a governing body that I don't have the ability to elect. My question for you is what? What are your concerns? So I can 05:14:38
write them down and address them that that that's my biggest concern. I mean, if you're not paying the taxes on it. 05:14:46
But we don't get, we don't get any of the representation representation over that. 05:14:54
Yeah, but normally you get representation over the taxes that you pay, but you would like representation over the taxes that 05:15:00
you're not paying. 05:15:04
Well, I think one thing can I is that right? No, I think that when. 05:15:08
Because I don't understand the ambiguity of this particular device. 05:15:14
I don't. I Don. 05:15:20
I don't know what I don't know. 05:15:21
Right. So I look at another body that's not you. 05:15:24
That's going to be making decisions for themselves. 05:15:29
That makes me over over publicly. 05:15:34
But if we didn't do. 05:15:38
Then you guys would have more of a. 05:15:41
Right. You are an elected body. We put you there to listen and and and sort through. Yeah, I suppose the tradeoff would be that 05:15:45
instead of loving. 05:15:49
One entity that wants to take the tax in order to pay for the infrastructure, we, who are in charge of the rest of the taxes, 05:15:54
would have to levy all of the residents. 05:15:59
Equally to pay for infrastructure and roads. So it would be that. What they're saying is we will take an additional levy on this 05:16:05
property and will be taxed at a higher rate. 05:16:10
So that nobody else has to pay for the infrastructure that isn't around their area. 05:16:15
I may be able to clarify that a little bit and I apologize Jake, I wasn't meaning to interrupt, but. 05:16:21
Historically. 05:16:28
When developers come to build a project in. 05:16:30
I shouldn't even say historically on this part, they have a they have an obligation to pay for the infrastructure that. 05:16:35
The result of their development? 05:16:43
And that holds true here. 05:16:46
There are tools that they can use privately to do that. 05:16:47
There what this does is similar to what an RDA does that you're looking at future tax revenues. 05:16:53
And you're taking the future tax revenues generated by the development and using it as a tool to help the development occur in the 05:17:00
first place? 05:17:04
So this is an additional. 05:17:09
Tool that doesn't create a burden on the city directly that can be used to fund that infrastructure. Now to the historically where 05:17:12
where would you go for these sources? We touched on RDA, you can use RDA funds. 05:17:19
Often that sales tax revenues and or property tax revenues. 05:17:27
You could use the general funds of. 05:17:32
To pay for better. 05:17:35
And different improvements than maybe what the developer would want to put in their bones. 05:17:39
And then you could turn to creating a local entity like a special service district. 05:17:45
But special service districts, if they're created by this, they can be created by the city with the consent of the landowner, but 05:17:51
their obligations against the city? 05:17:56
So if we build the infrastructure with a special service district, you get the benefit of public procurement, public bond rates. 05:18:01
But you create an obligation against the city, which means. 05:18:09
When not this, neigh. 05:18:12
Needs to renew its infrastructure and the city needs to go out to market to do it. It has less capacity. 05:18:15
For that financial transaction and it would, I hope that helps kind of overview. So it's a new tax, not it doesn't take away from 05:18:22
any existing tax, right. But the thing that's starkly different is. 05:18:29
And think about. 05:18:35
The great people behind me, right, They went out build a. 05:18:37
It's going to be this massive billion dollar project. 05:18:41
And they don't, they're they're not private investors behind it. So that's a red flag for me and I don't know the, I don't know 05:18:44
the the investment community as to why they passed. 05:18:49
How they went through And now we're turning over to say, hey, treat us like a PID and let's do government money. And so it's like 05:18:55
why weren't those banks or or other financial institutions, Why aren't they jumping at this idea? You know, during the campaign I 05:19:03
talked about this is by a power plant, this is by a mosquito infested area. This is by a dump. This is, you know, this is has. 05:19:11
You know it has a lot of issues. So I don't know why the private financial instrument have have not you know now we're looking at 05:19:19
this new idea. 05:19:23
And maybe it has to do with the land. And so we've got to come in and. 05:19:28
But this is a massive decision to change it to a government, you know, a government loan and creating them as that, right? And you 05:19:31
know, we'll leave today and we'll find out. 05:19:38
And it'll go through thousands of people on Facebook of we're financing or we created them as a government entity. And there is 05:19:44
going to be thousands of people, right, that are going to hear this. And it's going to be, did we vote this through one point in 05:19:49
one night? 05:19:53
And it's like this, Sarah and Jake understand what it is because we're going to be taking this over, right? Because you can't just 05:19:59
throw it over and say, hey, created it. 05:20:02
Also with the voice of the people. 05:20:06
Hey, we don't want Utah City in terms of government funds. Let them build it. They have their density, they have what their things 05:20:09
right. 05:20:13
But so we have a mandate to reduce RDA funds. 05:20:18
Right. In terms of how we were voted for the next two years until the next voice is heard on our side of the Ledger. 05:20:22
It just. 05:20:29
This just. 05:20:32
Like honestly, if this were approved, I would, I would frown not upon you guys but around them. Like Sarah and I have got to wrap 05:20:33
our heads around and be given a given an opportunity because you're going to throw us this in like 17 days. 05:20:40
Go, OK, they're they're, you know, and I would like to go talk to financial experts to say are they smart enough to be able to 05:20:47
administer, what is their background? Have they gone to school to be able to manage? And they may, they probably have. 05:20:54
But there's so many due diligence things that a lot, you know, a lot of people need to go through and touch for 1.5 billion to do 05:21:01
that. 05:21:05
And the people that I've met with at the. 05:21:10
Are all extremely the state doesn't. So how does small Little Vineyard feel like? We know enough. 05:21:14
I don't feel like we have the expert. 05:21:21
Yet, and we need to study it out, that doesn't mean no, and that doesn't mean any attack on their integrity. 05:21:24
Or character. Or that we would want to work with them in good faith. Like, honestly, we thought it out the other day at night, and 05:21:31
I saw face to face and I was like, you know what? We had some very serious conversation. 05:21:36
And I just I want to have that relationship right. 05:21:42
But if we push this through, I'm going to be coming back going. I don't like that we because we've told our citizens that. 05:21:46
We we just want to get things right, you know? So anyway. 05:21:54
Mayor Williams, resident I'm annoying, expert and of course my phone died so I couldn't look up any numbers. But I do know a bit