City Council Regular Meeting
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Transcript
| Some of our new elected officials. It's an exciting time. We've got a light agenda tonight so we can have an opportunity to do | 00:00:00 | |
| some training and to get to know each other. But we're very glad to have you with us tonight. I am going to just randomly call | 00:00:07 | |
| them. Would you mind doing the invocation? Inspirational Father, Pledge. Pledge of Allegiance. | 00:00:14 | |
| Hi there. Can you hear my father? We are so very grateful for this wonderful snowy day we have. We're grateful for this moisture. | 00:00:23 | |
| And please bless and watch over all those travelers. Please keep them safe. Please. | 00:00:28 | |
| Please help those emergency workers that are helping those in need that they can also be protected and watched over and we are | 00:00:35 | |
| still very grateful for those that serve our city and please bless and watch over them and. | 00:00:41 | |
| Please bless that we can be. | 00:00:48 | |
| Consider an understanding and be able to listen to one another's thoughts and be able to work together to find good compromises | 00:00:52 | |
| and good solutions to things that come before us. Please bless us that we can. | 00:00:58 | |
| Filled my spirit and have a wonderful evening, and Mercedes sings the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. All the rise. | 00:01:05 | |
| I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, | 00:01:13 | |
| indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. | 00:01:20 | |
| All right, this brings us right into our work session. We're going to start out with a training by our city attorney, Jamie | 00:01:28 | |
| Blakely, and he's going to talk to us about the Open Public Meetings Act, Ethics Roberts Rules and Grandma. | 00:01:34 | |
| Thank you, Jamie. | 00:01:42 | |
| I just have a question. | 00:01:50 | |
| Is it worth waiting for Sarah specifically on this item since she's new? | 00:01:52 | |
| Thanks, Jake. | 00:01:58 | |
| Wait for a minute. OK, that'll be fine. We'll give it a minute just to find out the estimated time. If she can't be here, there's | 00:02:03 | |
| additional trainings that we can have her do the same. | 00:02:08 | |
| And plus we can send her the recording. They have an orientation on Wednesday that we could assign this to her at that time. | 00:02:13 | |
| OK. | 00:02:25 | |
| Perfect timing. That's OK. Come on up. | 00:02:26 | |
| I'm glad you made it safely. It's very stormy and messy out there right now. | 00:02:32 | |
| We are just starting on our training with our attorney, and we're going to be talking about open and public meetings Act, the | 00:02:37 | |
| Ethics Act. Robert's Rules and Grandma. All right. Thank you, Mayor. Members of the council, Greetings. I'm Jamie Blakely. I'm the | 00:02:43 | |
| city attorney. | 00:02:48 | |
| You, as a public body, are required to conduct your deliberations openly. What this means is that you cannot consider an ordinance | 00:03:25 | |
| or a resolution unless meeting is held pursuant to the Open and Public Meetings Act and it's properly noticed. | 00:03:33 | |
| All meetings have to be open unless they're lawfully closed. A meeting includes a work meeting. It includes an executive session. | 00:03:41 | |
| And I mean, it is a meeting anytime a quorum of the City Council is together for the purposes of discussing or deliberating or | 00:03:52 | |
| working on items that fall within your responsibility. That includes members present in person and members that are joined | 00:03:59 | |
| electronically. | 00:04:06 | |
| Every public meeting requires public notice. That notice has to be made at least 24 hours ahead of time. There is an exception for | 00:04:17 | |
| emergencies. We'll talk about that in a few minutes. | 00:04:22 | |
| There has to be an agenda for every meeting. The agenda must have labeled the items that will be acted upon during the meeting | 00:04:27 | |
| with quote reasonable specificity. A topic can be raised by the public and discussed during the meeting at the discretion of the | 00:04:34 | |
| chair. The Mayor is the chair for the City Council. Other public bodies within the city will elect their own chairs. The notice | 00:04:42 | |
| has to be posted on the Utah Public Notice website and at the Principal office where. | 00:04:50 | |
| The meeting is to be held. The newspaper requirement went away a little bit ago. I need to update my presentation to reflect that | 00:04:57 | |
| electronic electronic posting is encouraged. We're meeting today at 5:35 because there was an outage on the public notice website | 00:05:05 | |
| yesterday afternoon and we couldn't get the notice posted at 5:00 when we attempted. And so you bump the meeting time so that you | 00:05:12 | |
| can be sure that 24 hour notice occurs. | 00:05:19 | |
| The city has to publish an annual notice of scheduled meeting, so that's been done. | 00:05:28 | |
| And then orderly conduct during meetings. If there's a disruption, a person may be removed if, quote, orderly conduct is seriously | 00:05:34 | |
| compromised. | 00:05:38 | |
| Electronic meetings are allowed. City code allows for this. It's similar to any meeting. It has to be noticed. There has to be an | 00:05:43 | |
| anchor location and the anchor location has to be set up for an electronic meeting in such a way that anybody who can't access | 00:05:51 | |
| electronically has the ability to attend, monitor and participate in the meeting. Most of our meetings are not electronic meetings | 00:05:58 | |
| because of the council's meeting altogether in in person, but. | 00:06:05 | |
| There is the possibility to do that with COVID. We had to do it quite a bit and everybody got really good at doing electronic | 00:06:13 | |
| meetings, but most of your meetings will be held in person. | 00:06:18 | |
| Written minutes have to be kept in every meeting. These are the requirements of what has to be in the minutes. I'm not going to go | 00:06:25 | |
| through this line by line, but it will be in your materials. We have phenomenal city recorders and assistant city recorders that | 00:06:31 | |
| take care of this in a really nice way. I do have a question about yes, please, can you go back to that? I had the question asked. | 00:06:38 | |
| Is there a time that those minutes have to be done by, Like how, how long before we have to make sure we voted on them and have | 00:06:44 | |
| them published to the public? | 00:06:50 | |
| They. | 00:06:58 | |
| There, there's a, there are two requirements. One is the recording of the meeting and that has to be up within three days and then | 00:07:00 | |
| retain permanently the minutes. You have a little bit more time to put them up. And the way it works is you post draft minutes and | 00:07:06 | |
| then once the actual minutes are approved by the public body, they would replace the draft minutes. But I think the draft minutes, | 00:07:13 | |
| it's within a month, within a month, OK. | 00:07:19 | |
| It's usually sooner than that and Pam's really great about getting them up, but. | 00:07:29 | |
| A little bit longer to put the minutes together than the record I've watched her work on minutes before and it's a very labor | 00:07:33 | |
| intensive. It's remarkable how they do it. | 00:07:37 | |
| The recording we just talked about, but there has to be a complete unedited recording of all open portions of the meeting | 00:07:42 | |
| beginning to end. Like I mentioned, that has to be available within three business days and it's retained permanently. | 00:07:49 | |
| You make closed meetings for certain purposes. It can only be done by 2/3 vote. That vote has to be done by roll call. There are | 00:07:57 | |
| certain it's announced publicly the reason for closing the meetings. These bullets are the purposes that most often occur with the | 00:08:03 | |
| City Council. | 00:08:10 | |
| There are a few others in the statute, but when you most often do, it is to what I call personnel type discussions, which is an | 00:08:17 | |
| individual's character, professional competence, or physical or mental health? A strategy session related to litigation? A | 00:08:23 | |
| strategy session related to real property. | 00:08:29 | |
| And then you have a few others that relate to investigations, security and certain procurement decisions. Those aren't as used as | 00:08:35 | |
| often as the first three bullets. | 00:08:40 | |
| There's a prohibition on closed meetings. You can close a meeting, for example, to interview a prospective member of staff. So if | 00:08:48 | |
| you had a vacancy and you were going to interview somebody, you could go into a closed session to do that. | 00:08:54 | |
| You are not allowed to do that if you're filling a vacancy in an elected position. So if, for example, there was a vacancy on the | 00:09:01 | |
| council, you had to fill it, and you wanted to interview people to see who could fill that vacancy. You're not allowed to do that | 00:09:05 | |
| in a closed session. | 00:09:10 | |
| Most closed meetings are recorded. There are not recordings for discussions of character, competence, or health of an individual | 00:09:19 | |
| for security measures, and when that occurs, the presiding officer signs an affidavit of the reasons why and what was discussed. | 00:09:28 | |
| You are permitted to conduct emergency meetings. They can be held with less than 24 hours. Notice they. These are very very rare. | 00:09:37 | |
| I don't recall one happening in Vineyard at the time that I since I've been the. | 00:09:43 | |
| City Attorney. | 00:09:50 | |
| I have had them occur with other entities and it typically is a true emergency situation. So with COVID I had a few entities that | 00:09:52 | |
| provide life and safety issues and so they had to hold emergency meetings to be able to appropriate funds and. | 00:10:00 | |
| And budget and do things to adjust to that. I have had organizations that have had storm damage to facilities and they had to | 00:10:09 | |
| contract for repairs and needed to make those decisions immediately. They would hold a meeting. An emergency meeting is different | 00:10:16 | |
| from a special meeting. When we say a special meeting, what we mean is you publish your annual schedule of when you'll hold your | 00:10:24 | |
| City Council meetings. A special meeting would be any meeting that isn't on that regular list. | 00:10:31 | |
| But it's not an emergency meeting. You would still provide 24 hours notice. All the other rules would apply. It's just not on that | 00:10:39 | |
| calendar that you published at the beginning of the year. And those do occur from time to time in all cities. | 00:10:46 | |
| An example might be like we don't have a meeting on the 14th of February, but if we decided we needed to call one on the 14th, | 00:10:54 | |
| that would be a special meeting, OK? | 00:10:58 | |
| OK, chance meetings and social gatherings. So if you happen to see each other at the grocery store, at the Christmas party, at a | 00:11:06 | |
| church event, at a social event, that's fine. You just cannot conduct city business when you're doing that. If you ever are | 00:11:13 | |
| together in a topic of city business comes up and you have a quorum, that would be improper and would be a violation at the end. | 00:11:20 | |
| There's a criminal penalty for a violation of the act, a quick note on electronic messaging. | 00:11:29 | |
| This one's tricky. Public meetings can occur electronically and if you have a quorum of the Council present during any | 00:11:36 | |
| communication. | 00:11:41 | |
| And you're talking about topic, talking about decisions that should be made in an open meeting that can be a violation of the Open | 00:11:47 | |
| and Public Meetings Act. This can occur by text message, it can occur by e-mail. It can occur on a Facebook thread if people are | 00:11:55 | |
| commenting back and forth on a topic. So you will want to be mindful when you're communicating through those tools that you don't | 00:12:03 | |
| have a quorum of the council present in that communication. Otherwise you could be found to have violated the app. | 00:12:11 | |
| Any questions on open and public meetings before I move on? | 00:12:21 | |
| I think I will mention something. This had been something that we had discussed prior when a new council came on because they have | 00:12:27 | |
| commented on social threats but not known. Other people were on a social threat and we talked about how they weren't commenting or | 00:12:33 | |
| interacting, but then we were all much more careful about making sure who was on it. Is that still kind of how you would interpret | 00:12:40 | |
| it? Yeah, I do think you want to be careful about that it. | 00:12:47 | |
| There are some There were news articles a few years ago about the Salt Lake City school board at the time they were making | 00:12:55 | |
| decisions about whether to remain open or closed during COVID. | 00:12:59 | |
| Where they were having discussions and deliberations over text and it was happening there unfortunately while the meeting was | 00:13:05 | |
| occurring which would be a big no no right to talk to each other about how are you going to vote on things and what do you think | 00:13:09 | |
| about this and. | 00:13:14 | |
| There's even went a step further of name calling and some unfortunate language, and a parent saw that. An interested parent that | 00:13:19 | |
| was at the meeting saw it happened, made a records request, got those text messages, and it was. | 00:13:25 | |
| You know, released and published in the paper. And so I do think you want to be careful. Social media can be really tough, right? | 00:13:32 | |
| Because. | 00:13:36 | |
| You could be on a Reddit thread and hit the up arrow right on something and you technically are part of that conversation. You're | 00:13:40 | |
| giving your support or your favor for it. It could be a thumbs up on Facebook and you're not using the words in that | 00:13:45 | |
| communication. But it is communication and if it's about a topic that is city business and you have a quorum present, then you | 00:13:51 | |
| would have an issue. | 00:13:56 | |
| It doesn't preclude you from using social media, but. | 00:14:04 | |
| You just need to be mindful. | 00:14:08 | |
| OK, Rules of order. So the the default rules of order are Roberts Rules of Order. They're rules of order that have existed since. | 00:14:11 | |
| Kind of old English times and have continued on through most. | 00:14:21 | |
| Public bodies and public entities. And so a lot of what we'll talk about here from Robert's Rules, they're not from a statute. | 00:14:25 | |
| They're not from an ordinance. | 00:14:29 | |
| But they are the parliamentary rules that cities throughout the state follow in public entities throughout the state follow. | 00:14:33 | |
| The basic rules are these You have an agenda. The agenda constitutes the road map for the meeting, and that's what will be | 00:14:40 | |
| followed through the meeting. If you overlay that with the Open and Public Public Meetings Act, you can only take action during | 00:14:48 | |
| the meeting on items that have been properly noticed and are on the agenda. If something new comes up and you would like to act on | 00:14:55 | |
| it or consider it, you would have to add it to a future agenda and then take it up during the future meeting. | 00:15:02 | |
| This can come off as. | 00:15:10 | |
| Awkward or old-fashioned. When you get public comments saying please do something about it, now you realize that it's an important | 00:15:14 | |
| thing, You want to do something about it, but you have to tell the person who made the comment. | 00:15:20 | |
| We'll come back to it on a future meeting and can put it on an agenda. | 00:15:27 | |
| The chair of the City Council controls the agenda, and so the mayor may, at her discretion, put things on the agenda that she | 00:15:31 | |
| would like the council to discuss. | 00:15:37 | |
| If any member of the City Council wishes to have something on the agenda, they can make a motion during a meeting asking that | 00:15:44 | |
| something be put on the agenda. It can be voted on. If you have a majority of the council that would like something to be agenda, | 00:15:51 | |
| then it would be on a future agenda. You can of course contact the mayor offline and request that something be put on the agenda. | 00:15:57 | |
| It would be a her discretion in that circumstance whether it's on the agenda or not. | 00:16:04 | |
| But you can also during a meeting. | 00:16:11 | |
| Ask that things be there. | 00:16:13 | |
| You have under Robert Rules, one question at a time and one speaker at a time, basic rules of courtesy that are respected. | 00:16:16 | |
| The chairperson can use what we more often called unanimous consent, not general consent, with all motions except for motions that | 00:16:26 | |
| require a roll call vote of the Council. So if you had a procedural motion or an amendment, or a motion to adjourn or a motion. | 00:16:36 | |
| That is, not to approve a resolution, or to open or close a public hearing, or to go into closed session. You can do it by | 00:16:48 | |
| unanimous consent. | 00:16:52 | |
| Typically, items on your consent agenda can be handled this way, but if you do have a resolution on the consent agenda, you'd have | 00:16:59 | |
| to do a roll call vote for those items. | 00:17:03 | |
| There are three basic forms of motions. We'll get to these in a minute. You make initial motions, motions to amend and substitute | 00:17:09 | |
| motions. That's what you see most often. | 00:17:13 | |
| In meetings, there should be no more than three motions on the floor at the time. That's really just a rule for convenience. It's | 00:17:19 | |
| tough to keep track of if you have more than that. | 00:17:23 | |
| Typically, debate and discussion can continue as long as members wish to discuss an item. But the chairperson does have the | 00:17:28 | |
| ability to kind of bring discussion in when it's time to make a decision. So if things if discussion tends to either lag or be | 00:17:35 | |
| repetitive or or touch on things that have already been addressed, the chair has the prerogative and can always move things toward | 00:17:42 | |
| either a motion or a vote at that time. | 00:17:49 | |
| I'll talk about the sequence in a minute. | 00:17:57 | |
| Three yes votes are required to pass any item. There are certain items that require a little bit more than three votes there. One | 00:17:59 | |
| example is a two third vote for a closed session and with a 5 member council, 2/3 is 4. | 00:18:05 | |
| A motion to reconsider any item requires A majority vote to pass under Robert's Rules. There are kind of specific rules for a | 00:18:13 | |
| motion to reconsider has to be made during the same meeting. You can, at a later meeting make a motion that would be a motion to | 00:18:20 | |
| amend, or that could be a text amendment, the replacing ordinance, things of that type, But during but a motion to just reconsider | 00:18:26 | |
| an item to kind of. | 00:18:33 | |
| Obvious about that you already took would have to occur during the same meeting. | 00:18:40 | |
| And then the chairperson and members of the board showed here to bylaws in the code of conduct. | 00:18:45 | |
| To the extent they exist, your default code of conduct is what's in state law and then what's in the Ethics Act, and we'll talk a | 00:18:51 | |
| little bit about that. | 00:18:55 | |
| Types of Motions So you A main motion introduces a new item. A subsidiary motion would be a motion to amend or substitute motion. | 00:19:02 | |
| So if for example, you wanted to. | 00:19:12 | |
| Amend the text or amend the policy or make a little bit of a change to the motion that was made. You could request to amend. If | 00:19:15 | |
| it's a friendly amendment, the person who made the motion can just say I accept that friendly amendment. If it's not a friendly | 00:19:20 | |
| amendment, then you would vote on the amendment 1st and then you would vote. If it fails, you would then vote on the original | 00:19:25 | |
| motion. | 00:19:30 | |
| There can be an incidental motion, which is just a question of procedure. There's a motion to table. A motion to table is an | 00:19:36 | |
| old-fashioned word for. | 00:19:41 | |
| And the item not vote on it. | 00:19:47 | |
| And it would just be done. | 00:19:50 | |
| They got into item one and quickly realized they needed to handle item three first, and so they just moved to continue item one | 00:20:24 | |
| until after they could hear item 3. | 00:20:29 | |
| There is one footnote I would put on motion to continue and it's that if you're moving to continue a public hearing. | 00:20:35 | |
| To another date, you have to name that date in that motion. | 00:20:43 | |
| So that those attending the meeting know when to come back for the hearing. Because public hearings have specific notice | 00:20:47 | |
| requirements under state law under respect that you have to name a date and time. | 00:20:53 | |
| If you're just moving to continue any old resolution or ordinance, you don't have to name a date. You could just continue to a | 00:20:58 | |
| future meeting and then when it's ready to come forward, it can come forward again. | 00:21:04 | |
| Every motion has at least 6 steps. You make the motion, there's a call for a second on the motion. Once the 2nd occurs, the motion | 00:21:11 | |
| is restated so everyone understands what was. | 00:21:17 | |
| What was moved for? | 00:21:24 | |
| There then is debated discussion on the motion. After that's concluded, there's a vote on the motion, and then the chair will | 00:21:25 | |
| announce the results of the vote and any instructions after that. | 00:21:31 | |
| Ordinances, resolutions, and any action that would create a liability against the city require a roll call vote liability would | 00:21:39 | |
| be. | 00:21:43 | |
| Hiring and firing individuals. | 00:21:48 | |
| Any kind of contract or procurement decisions? | 00:21:51 | |
| All other matters can be a simple yes or no. | 00:21:54 | |
| Points of things You all during the meetings have the opportunity to request more information, Request clarity, request. | 00:22:00 | |
| Privilege. And so these are the this is the language that's used under Robert's orders, Robert's Rules of Order. You don't have to | 00:22:12 | |
| use precisely this language, but you do always have the ability. | 00:22:17 | |
| If there's a breach of rules, if there's improper procedure, you can ask for a point of order at any time during the meeting and | 00:22:24 | |
| get clarification on that. Heidi and I are here as a resource to you if you have a question on a point of order and we can try to | 00:22:29 | |
| answer that and give you instruction. | 00:22:35 | |
| A point of information. If you want to be more informed before you make a decision, you can always request a point of information | 00:22:41 | |
| and then try to receive that information. That could be a staff report, it could be a document, it could be whatever you feel you | 00:22:47 | |
| need during that meeting to understand the item. A point of inquiry is the clarification on making voting decisions. So it would | 00:22:54 | |
| be you know what specifically are we voting on or what would be the effect of. | 00:23:01 | |
| This kind of vote or. And then finally, as a point of personal privilege, and this is really just comfort. If if it's too cold, if | 00:23:08 | |
| it's too hot, if you need to use the restroom, if we've been going for a long time and you need a break just to stand up, you can | 00:23:14 | |
| always ask for a point of personal privilege. | 00:23:19 | |
| OK. I have just two or three slides that relate to legislative and administrative powers. When for the new council members, when | 00:23:28 | |
| we meet next week, I'll spend a little bit more time going into the powers and duties and roles. | 00:23:36 | |
| Of a City Council. But there's a really simple it's, I should I say, simple? | 00:23:44 | |
| There's a bright line distinction between some of the actions you take. That has to be understood because the information you can | 00:23:51 | |
| use to make your decision is different in those circumstances, and the effect of the decision is different. And the rights that | 00:23:59 | |
| the public has relative to your decisions is different For these things. You have, as a City Council in Utah, the ability to make | 00:24:06 | |
| some decisions that are legislative and some decisions that are administrative. | 00:24:13 | |
| Legislative decisions are things like rules, regulations, codes. | 00:24:22 | |
| At what level you want to set your fines? | 00:24:26 | |
| Punishments, forfeitures, those types of decisions. When you're making a legislative decision, you can bring to bear any point of | 00:24:31 | |
| policy that is important to you or resonates with you when you make that choice. So when you are creating and approving a land use | 00:24:38 | |
| ordinance, for example, if you have a preference about density parking. | 00:24:46 | |
| Anything that relates to that development choice? | 00:24:56 | |
| You can bring that preference forward and that can be part of the discussion. You can make a decision on that basis. When you're | 00:24:59 | |
| making an administrative approval, you're approving something that is governed by the code that's in place before that approval | 00:25:04 | |
| comes to you. | 00:25:09 | |
| These are things like projects, plans, policies that flow from an ordinance, contracts, services. When you're making those kinds | 00:25:15 | |
| of decisions, you're a little bit more limited in what you can bring to bear. You cannot reject a project just because I don't | 00:25:21 | |
| like it, or I think it looks bad, or I don't like the color, or this is next to my neighbor's house and I don't think they're | 00:25:27 | |
| going to favor it. | 00:25:32 | |
| When you're making those kinds of decisions, your obligation is to look at what the ordinance says. Look at what is in the | 00:25:39 | |
| application. You can request evidence to inform and support your decision, but if that evidence is not in the record, you can't | 00:25:47 | |
| consider it as part of your decision, or else you would open the city up to a legal challenge of that decision. | 00:25:54 | |
| Staff and I will try to guide you as to whether the decisions that are before you are legislative or administrative. You can | 00:26:03 | |
| always ask me for clarification if you have questions about it. The topics where the line is harvested, differentiate is when | 00:26:09 | |
| you're taking up any land use decisions to know are we doing an ordinance, is this a legislative decision or are we considering an | 00:26:16 | |
| application and is it administrative decision? | 00:26:23 | |
| Your legislative power has to be exercised by ordinance. | 00:26:31 | |
| And then this is just a brief little CHEAT SHEET that if it's legislative, it's an ordinance, if it's administrative and it | 00:26:36 | |
| creates A liability, then it has to be done by resolution. | 00:26:43 | |
| If it's a procedural or a ministerial action, If you're approving minutes, If you're giving direction to staff. If you're. | 00:26:51 | |
| Making appointments or making a point of order, those things can all be done by motion and just by roll call. Or not by roll call | 00:27:00 | |
| vote, but just a yes or no vote altogether. | 00:27:05 | |
| And then why does it matter? Ordinances have the force of law. They can be enforced criminally or civilly. Legislative decisions | 00:27:12 | |
| are subject to referenda and mandamus. Mandamus is when somebody brings a lawsuit to compel the government to do something that's | 00:27:18 | |
| within its authority, and your legislative decisions are subject to that. Administrative decisions are not subject to referendum | 00:27:24 | |
| or mandamus. | 00:27:30 | |
| And then the standard of review legally, if it goes to court, is different for a legislative and administrative decision. | 00:27:37 | |
| You're given quite a bit of deference on legislative choices, on administrative decisions. The courts really will look at due | 00:27:44 | |
| process and whether you follow the right process. They won't get into the the more detailed aspects of the decision. Most | 00:27:51 | |
| ordinances do not require a public hearing. The things that do that come to you more often. | 00:27:58 | |
| Our salary schedules for elected officers and officials, taxes, budgets, tax impact fees and other fees. | 00:28:07 | |
| Land use regulations and then anytime you dispose of real property owned by the City of public hearing is required. | 00:28:15 | |
| There are a few other things but. | 00:28:23 | |
| That's the list of of kind of the greatest hits. | 00:28:27 | |
| On public hearings, residents of the city have a right to be heard when there is a hearing. You are not required during a public | 00:28:32 | |
| hearing to engage in dialogue with the public. You're required to hear the public. | 00:28:37 | |
| You can choose to ask for follow up information, things like that of items that are addressed during the public hearing, but it | 00:28:44 | |
| does not give the public the right to. | 00:28:49 | |
| Depose or interrogate you on. | 00:28:55 | |
| Why you're making the decision and what your background is, whether you're fit for office things of that sort. | 00:28:57 | |
| On land use decisions, the applicant has to be given the opportunity to respond to public comment. After a public hearing, the | 00:29:04 | |
| public often will. | 00:29:09 | |
| They'll bluster a little bit at this, not just in veneer but but throughout the state, because they'll feel like, why did I get 3 | 00:29:19 | |
| minutes? And then the applicant gets to come and address you for 10 or 15 minutes on all the things that were talked about during | 00:29:25 | |
| public comment. And the reason for that is under state law, they have that right and you have to allow them the opportunity to | 00:29:31 | |
| respond to the things that are addressed. | 00:29:38 | |
| During the public comment, you may limit public comment to a reasonable time. This is to allow you to work through things that are | 00:29:45 | |
| on your agenda. It's to allow you to hear from as many people as possible. | 00:29:51 | |
| During the hearings you do, however, as a public body, open and close the public hearings by motion and vote. | 00:29:58 | |
| Chairperson controls the meeting and on the right hand side are just some of the general guidelines about public hearings. | 00:30:07 | |
| I'll just note the final thing, that if there are personal attacks or things of that nature that are, those are grounds for under | 00:30:14 | |
| the Open and Public Meetings Act. | 00:30:20 | |
| Any questions about Robert's rules before I pivot to ethics? Any questions? | 00:30:27 | |
| OK. Seeing none, I'll keep going. | 00:30:33 | |
| So I, a few years ago went to Portugal there. | 00:30:38 | |
| Congratulations on being elected to office. You now qualify to commit 12 felony offenses that weren't available to you before. | 00:31:21 | |
| It's a little tongue in cheek, but it's true. There are, there's there are perils and there are risks to being an elected | 00:31:29 | |
| official. And I view my job as being kind of the leash that tethers you to your surfboard, so you can always find the service and | 00:31:35 | |
| you can always stay safe. | 00:31:41 | |
| In your office. So the six are You can't use your office for personal benefit. You cannot receive money for assistance with a | 00:31:47 | |
| transaction with the city. There's a little asterisk next to that that we'll get into. | 00:31:53 | |
| If you own or have a significant interest in a business regulated by the city, you'll want to be aware of that and just make the | 00:32:00 | |
| right disclosures and behave in the right way. | 00:32:05 | |
| If you have an investment, creating a conflict of interest. | 00:32:11 | |
| You'll need to be aware of that if you have a business that is doing business with the city and so how are three and four | 00:32:16 | |
| different? Three is the city regulates the business and four is the the business is seeking work from the city. They're they're | 00:32:22 | |
| participating in a public procurement or the city contracts with that business for service. And then number six is if you invite | 00:32:29 | |
| somebody to do. | 00:32:35 | |
| Bad things with you, then you're responsible for the things you invite them to do. | 00:32:42 | |
| So I'll go through quickly what they are and. | 00:32:49 | |
| You all know that it's a criminal offense, so you will have access through your position to private controller protected | 00:32:51 | |
| information. If you use that information to further your economic interests, or to secure special privileges or exemptions for | 00:32:58 | |
| yourself, or you improperly disclose information that is protected or private or controlled, you can be responsible either under | 00:33:04 | |
| the Ethics Act or under the provisions of grammar. So you will want to be mindful as you come across information that you use it | 00:33:11 | |
| properly. | 00:33:17 | |
| If you have questions about if you get something and you don't know, is this public or is it a private or protected record. | 00:33:24 | |
| And those are the categories you'll most often see. Speak to the person who provided it to you, Speak to Pam or speak to myself, | 00:33:33 | |
| and we can give you advice on what it is and how you ought to behave with that information. | 00:33:40 | |
| You cannot use your official position to further your economic interests or to secure special privileges for yourself or a | 00:33:48 | |
| relative. And relative is defined fairly broadly to include you, your spouse, your parents, your children. It is not just people | 00:33:54 | |
| who live in your home. | 00:34:00 | |
| You cannot knowingly receive, take, or solicit a gift of substantial value if that gift would tend to influence your decision. | 00:34:09 | |
| And if you know or should know that that gift is primarily a reward for your official action, there are some exceptions. You can | 00:34:19 | |
| receive an occasional non pecuniary gift of less than $50. That's an annual $50. You can receive an award for your public service. | 00:34:28 | |
| You can get a bona fide loan from somebody who does business or is located within the city, but that loan has to be on commercial | 00:34:36 | |
| terms that are available to the public generally. So if you're approving them, making a land use approval for a bank in the city. | 00:34:45 | |
| And you also happen to be getting a mortgage from that bank for your home or a business loan or something like that. As long as | 00:34:55 | |
| that loans on regular commercial terms, you're fine. If it departs from normal commercial terms, then you would. | 00:35:02 | |
| Violate the act and have an issue there, and there's an exception for political campaign contributions. | 00:35:11 | |
| The I want to talk briefly on gifts. Gifts can come at you from weird angles, and things that you might not consider, that you | 00:35:18 | |
| might not have considered to be gifts before taking public office would be gifts. | 00:35:24 | |
| If, for example, you had a neighbor or somebody in the city that you vacation with often, and you share housing for a vacation, or | 00:35:31 | |
| you go to their cabin, or you go to their condo. | 00:35:37 | |
| Now that you're in elected office, if they have business with the city. | 00:35:43 | |
| That go into their condo or going to their cabin or sharing a boat. | 00:35:47 | |
| Would be something that has monetary value. | 00:35:53 | |
| And would be a gift that you may not consider it to be, that if you are used to having neighbors call and say I have sports | 00:35:57 | |
| tickets I'm not going to be able to use, would you like them? | 00:36:03 | |
| That may have been a normal thing that would happen all the time before you came into an elected position. It would now be a gift, | 00:36:09 | |
| and if it was over $50, you would have to pay them for the base value of. | 00:36:16 | |
| That item. | 00:36:24 | |
| Compensation for assistance in a transaction involving the city. This applies to employees and officers. You have to make a public | 00:36:28 | |
| disclosure, and the disclosure has. | 00:36:33 | |
| Really specific timing. You have to disclose it in an open or public meeting. If you're an employee, you have to disclose it to a | 00:36:39 | |
| supervisor or anyone involved in your evaluation or approval. | 00:36:46 | |
| It has to have your name and address, the name and address of the person being helped or the entity being helped. It has to have a | 00:36:54 | |
| description of the transaction and the and the type of service that you'll be performing. And then the timing is very, very | 00:37:01 | |
| important. If it doesn't occur 10 days before the agreement, 10 days before you receive compensation, then you would be in | 00:37:08 | |
| violation of the act. So if ever anybody approaches you and says we'd like your help with. | 00:37:15 | |
| X item that's before the city for approval. Either turn them down right away and if you turn them down I recommend you do it in | 00:37:24 | |
| writing or tell them I can do this, but only after I consult with the city attorney and then notice it properly and make the | 00:37:31 | |
| required disclosure. And then I can walk you through that process and what it would mean. | 00:37:38 | |
| Utah's Ethics Act, and this is my own editorial comment, it's weak. It doesn't require somebody to recuse themselves from actions. | 00:37:47 | |
| It it has disclosure requirements above all else. And so you can still make decisions even if you have a conflict of interest | 00:37:54 | |
| under the Ethics Act or doing some of these things that are are discussed in the Ethics Act. I will give you my best advice as | 00:38:02 | |
| City Attorney whenever you consult with me on that. | 00:38:10 | |
| And that often will be that you recuse yourself, even if it's not required by statute. I think there, I just think there are | 00:38:18 | |
| risks, both optics, politics and legally, that it's the safer course for you to do that. And so I'll give you that kind of. I'll | 00:38:26 | |
| give you advice, here's what I would recommend, here's what the Ethics Act requires, and then you can give some direction as to | 00:38:33 | |
| what you do, and I'll help you document and make those. | 00:38:41 | |
| Disclosures in the right way. | 00:38:49 | |
| When they come about. | 00:38:51 | |
| Can I pick on you a little bit, Marty, in a good way. I we had a Marty made a disclosure during the last City Council meeting that | 00:38:53 | |
| was a disclosure that if you look at the dollar amounts and you look at what her position was within her place of employment, she | 00:39:00 | |
| didn't need any of the categories under the ethics Act. So disclosure wasn't required, but it really was the best course and as we | 00:39:07 | |
| visited about that she decided to make the disclosure during. | 00:39:14 | |
| The meeting and I I applaud her for that and I think that's a really good way of handling those kinds of situations. | 00:39:22 | |
| Interest in a business regulated by the city. So if you're an officer, director, agent, or you own a substantial interest, then | 00:39:31 | |
| you have to make that disclosure you have with your agenda at your chair Disclosure form. This is a form that we will use | 00:39:37 | |
| annually. | 00:39:44 | |
| From here on out for you to make the disclosures that are required. | 00:39:51 | |
| And then we'll have that in place. | 00:40:29 | |
| Disclosure has to be a sworn statement to the mayor. You'll see on the form I gave you that it's directed to the mayor. | 00:40:31 | |
| The mayor reports or delivers a copy to the council. There are exceptions if you're interested in the business is under $2000 or | 00:40:38 | |
| it's just life insurance. You don't have to disclose that type of thing. Similar disclosure if you have a business that is doing | 00:40:44 | |
| business with the city, we talked about that earlier and you'll make that disclosure as well in this form and then by | 00:40:50 | |
| supplementing it throughout the year. | 00:40:56 | |
| If you have a conflict of interest involving your duties, and this was really where the situation with Marty came up, if you feel | 00:41:03 | |
| like things you have to do in your personal or your private life may conflict with the decisions you have to make publicly and it | 00:41:10 | |
| creates a conflict and we recommend disclosure during a meeting. | 00:41:17 | |
| And then inducing is all of the things we talked about previously, but if you ask somebody else to do it along with you or | 00:41:26 | |
| separate from you. | 00:41:29 | |
| Their criminal penalties are based on the dollar value of the compensation, the conflict or the assistance. | 00:41:34 | |
| The standard of proof is that you know, knowingly or intentionally violate if something comes up. If you learn of something after | 00:41:41 | |
| the fact and you weren't aware during the vote or during the decision, it is better to make that late disclosure than to not make | 00:41:48 | |
| it at all and to document it appropriately. That protects you because the standard is knowingly or intentionally, and if you | 00:41:55 | |
| didn't know about it, even if it was a conflict, it only becomes a conflict once you're aware. | 00:42:02 | |
| Or know of that situation, There's a penalty for employees that if these kind of violations occur, they are required to be | 00:42:10 | |
| dismissed from employment. | 00:42:14 | |
| Or removed from office. | 00:42:20 | |
| And I should note that on the final bullet. | 00:42:22 | |
| A third party can't come to the city and seek to rescind the transaction if it was approved by somebody that hadn't followed that | 00:42:25 | |
| exactly when they made that approval. | 00:42:29 | |
| Did you see if they can't or they can? Oh, they can. | 00:42:35 | |
| Any questions from the Council? | 00:42:39 | |
| No, don't take me here. OK, thank you. Well, if you have further questions and you want to start compiling them for your | 00:42:43 | |
| orientation on Wednesday, maybe that would be another time to approach it. So that's great. If I can just reinforce one thing at | 00:42:49 | |
| the end is that I am a resource studio. If you have questions on any of these topics of you know, does my situation apply, we can | 00:42:56 | |
| talk confidentially, we can go through the details of what that is and then I'll give you my best advice on how to proceed and try | 00:43:02 | |
| to be a protection to you as you. | 00:43:09 | |
| Thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much. All right, we won't go ahead and move on to our next agenda, item 2.2. This is the | 00:43:17 | |
| municipal code amendment and our public works director and senior will present. | 00:43:25 | |
| This change and explain it for the Council. | 00:43:34 | |
| All right, so I think I'm going to open the worst director, city engineer. So I put together some slides for this, specifically | 00:44:36 | |
| about public utility easements, Municipal code, Proposed municipal code change for public detail easements. I include public right | 00:44:45 | |
| of ways specifically because it's important to distinguish between the two. | 00:44:55 | |
| Right away is in public utility easement. So the first few slides are going to be kind of just giving a overview of what a public | 00:45:05 | |
| right of way is, what public utility easement is, and then we'll go into kind of what the proposed change would be and the reason | 00:45:10 | |
| as to why. | 00:45:14 | |
| So again, the same endorphin works director and this was done in conjunction with Patrick James, Senior Engineer as well. | 00:45:19 | |
| So the first slide talks about right away a definition of a right away and it's very to the point it's, it's the right to build | 00:45:27 | |
| and operate a railroad line, Rd. utility land belonging to another in essence. So it's a diagram, a diagram shown up there kind of | 00:45:35 | |
| represents it, it's the, it's the growth, it's the pavements asphalt portion of it, it's curb and gutter and the sidewalks and | 00:45:42 | |
| sometimes I'm between the sidewalks and the road asphalt you typically see park strip on there. | 00:45:50 | |
| I said I would that would kinda designated designated to the hedges on the side kind of hopes act as a distinguishing that | 00:45:58 | |
| typically the right away ends at the backside of the sidewalk. We call the backside which is the sidewalk typically closest to a | 00:46:05 | |
| building a home or so forth. An important thing about the right of way we also called the public runaway is that it provides it's | 00:46:12 | |
| an area that allows non property owners to. | 00:46:20 | |
| Access to common areas. | 00:46:28 | |
| Like for example parks, park schools, grocery stores, et cetera. And on there, no individual property owner has exclusive rights | 00:46:30 | |
| to go right away. It's typically owned by the city, the county, the state. There are private roads and so forth. Those are owned | 00:46:38 | |
| by communities like HO As and so forth. It kind of falls within the same constructs which it provides to the community members as | 00:46:45 | |
| a whole the the ability to maneuver through. | 00:46:53 | |
| The the this geographical space on that. | 00:47:02 | |
| So in moving on to what public utility easement is, public utility easement is a right to cross or otherwise use someone else's | 00:47:08 | |
| land for a specified purpose. So the biggest distinguishing between the two is that public utility easement is. | 00:47:16 | |
| On someone's property, and it's important to note that all the Public Utilities may fall on a on a particular person's piece of | 00:47:26 | |
| land for a specified purpose. | 00:47:31 | |
| That they'll D the little or the title. The land remains with a property owner, but is established to provide another person, | 00:47:37 | |
| organization or such the right to use that portion in order to. | 00:47:44 | |
| In order for that specified purpose on there for example and it can be for between. | 00:47:53 | |
| A private private property owner and a municipality. | 00:48:03 | |
| Or it could be between 2:00 private parties for example. | 00:48:09 | |
| Sometimes when you get to areas where you do flag loss and so forth, some communities you have multiple locks back amongst each | 00:48:13 | |
| other and then the access to the road might be in one area. The lots, like the residential lots are further away from the road. | 00:48:21 | |
| They have a access easement that is that is an agreement between all the property owners. | 00:48:29 | |
| Allows those people further away from Rd. access onto the public Rd. on there. So that's again, it's providing a right to cross | 00:48:38 | |
| someone's property for a specified purpose. A specified purpose being I need to go from my house to the gym or to the school and | 00:48:44 | |
| so forth. | 00:48:50 | |
| And that is, you know, that is maybe not so common around here, but it is a common thing, especially when you get to the more | 00:48:56 | |
| rural parts of, you know, the United States. Here's a diagram showing kind of distinguishing where public right of way is | 00:49:04 | |
| utilities and of course the private property. As you can see the public, the public right of way, the public property on the top | 00:49:12 | |
| portion of it kind of highlighted in red is an essence sidewalk to sidewalk and includes the road includes the park strips. | 00:49:19 | |
| The public utility easement denoted in the yellow area. | 00:49:28 | |
| Falls within the private property side says typically right we call it the backside of the sidewalk. There is different width of | 00:49:31 | |
| that public utility easement. There are typical width that you get is 10 feet is your kind of a typical. It can be 8 feet it could | 00:49:39 | |
| be 15 feet to really depends on. It really depends on the areas of municipalities and like the expectations on that. For example | 00:49:47 | |
| are there some utilities. | 00:49:54 | |
| Especially that are owned by. | 00:50:02 | |
| Power companies that in Utah, they call them private utilities, easements and other areas they call them. | 00:50:05 | |
| The special purpose utilities went to those. Those may be larger like for example transmission lines have a larger easement on | 00:50:15 | |
| there versus like a telephone line which would have a much smaller one. | 00:50:21 | |
| And of course, it doesn't have to fall on the front of some front of somebody's property. This shows that, you know, utilities may | 00:50:27 | |
| be on the side or on the backside. My personal house, I have a utility easement on all four sides of my of where I live. So it | 00:50:34 | |
| doesn't nice. It doesn't typically have to be in one particular area, but there's typically standards on that. | 00:50:41 | |
| So again, talking about what I'm talking more about, what is the public utility. A public utility is defined as and believe | 00:50:49 | |
| Renault railroad falls into public utility as well and railroad, gas, electrical, telephone, water in essence heat corporations | 00:50:57 | |
| and energy producers there. There are some exemptions of what the energy producers are like. For example if somebody's producing | 00:51:05 | |
| batteries they don't technically fall into it energy producer the. | 00:51:12 | |
| This is off from the Utah code that kind of talks about what they are and then probably has like 5 pages of exemptions on there. I | 00:51:21 | |
| won't go into it, but that's kind of more generalized. Here is a little diagram kind of showing what a public utility is. Water | 00:51:26 | |
| wastewater does fall into public utility as well. | 00:51:32 | |
| And then of course, if you'd like to know more about this Utah code, title 54. | 00:51:41 | |
| Talks more about that goes into very specifics in the details and covers things such as rights for the public utility easement. | 00:51:47 | |
| Also talks about installation, maintenance and the rights of property owners and of course the responsibilities of property | 00:51:53 | |
| owners. And then. | 00:51:59 | |
| At the end of the day, it really talks about the compliance within state laws. | 00:52:05 | |
| So kind of why we were talking about this specifically, we were talking about municipal code change, specifically approving our | 00:52:11 | |
| city in regards to public utility easements. Public utility easements are outlined on Platts. You'll be seeing many, many plots | 00:52:17 | |
| coming. | 00:52:22 | |
| Forth reviewing authors that have some site, for example a neighborhood need development, so we'll have would have a plastic car | 00:52:29 | |
| showing how the roadways the public the public right of ways, which includes the asphalt. | 00:52:35 | |
| The park strips and also the sidewalks are laid out talks about the lots of the sizes of lost, and not only are they for | 00:52:41 | |
| residential purposes, but they're also for commercial purposes. An example would be Mountain America. I'll use them as an example. | 00:52:48 | |
| Just today we signed a document creating a sidewalk easement on their private property. Because they weren't able to get the | 00:52:56 | |
| sidewalk in the public right of way, they had to veer onto their private property in order for us to allow that to happen. | 00:53:04 | |
| We had to create a sidewalk easements easement specifically for the purpose of a sidewalk, which is allowing the public the | 00:53:11 | |
| ability to access. | 00:53:17 | |
| To have the ability to transverse on Mountain America's private property so that was specifically created for Mountain America and | 00:53:25 | |
| on and then they'll they're going to have a placerated placing typically see an area that has a generalization of where public | 00:53:32 | |
| utility easements are specific. You'll see that a lot with the residential and this is just a blow up example where the public the | 00:53:39 | |
| easements are outlined for at corner lot. | 00:53:46 | |
| It was like a year and a half process, mainly because I got busy and I didn't do the paperwork on time. But once I did get there, | 00:54:30 | |
| once I did get the paperwork, happened to coordinate with five different agencies. It was removed on the backside of my house. On | 00:54:37 | |
| the side of my house, however, so you'll see those on plots showing where the easements are. Again, typical. Typical. In Vineyard | 00:54:45 | |
| City, we'll do a 10th of Peewee, which is short for Public utility easement. | 00:54:53 | |
| Again another example about retaining the private use of a Public Utilities and the municipal code chains that we're looking at | 00:55:02 | |
| doing is to prevent a public utility easement to be retained for private use. We've had an example where we've had some plots | 00:55:12 | |
| provide to us or excuse me that was given to Veneer City this is some time ago where the public, the Public Utilities meant was. | 00:55:23 | |
| Dedicated the city which is tip which is is typically done or allows the city to provide to be in essence like the other almost a | 00:55:34 | |
| caregiver of having oversight at the public utility. Easement to say where a utility company will say for example the power | 00:55:42 | |
| company, The gas company is required to do some additional work, but they go through a encroachment permit process with the city | 00:55:50 | |
| that I approach my permit with. The process with the city allows us to do is. | 00:55:58 | |
| And we're trying to minimize the inconveniences to the general public overall and SSO and so the city where we tend to do is | 00:56:40 | |
| we're, I wanna say the gatekeeper of it, but we're just there just to ensure that the public centers is being met for those we're | 00:56:48 | |
| not. Again, all we're doing is abiding to what state laws allow. Go ahead then. | 00:56:57 | |
| Does the state law? I guess there was a question brought up where? | 00:57:07 | |
| Do we have any control or protected in a lot where we can actually say that your utility box can't be the size of a coffin on your | 00:57:13 | |
| front yard? It happens. It's in Spanish. You're just talking about the size of the boxes, like the size and the style. I mean, do | 00:57:20 | |
| we have any control over that as a City Council, could we actually put restrictions on what Public Utilities like, specifically | 00:57:27 | |
| Comcast coming in? | 00:57:34 | |
| You could. We could put something in our municipal ordinance. | 00:58:19 | |
| If it's a franchise type activity like what you would have with the telecom company that comes in, there are some limitations | 00:58:25 | |
| state law places on the city. We cannot for example. | 00:58:30 | |
| Grant an exclusive franchise to anyone company. So if we allow one Internet company to come into the city via franchise agreement, | 00:58:35 | |
| we would have to make the same terms available to any other franchise that comes. That can occasionally tie the city's hands. If | 00:58:43 | |
| the first franchise agreement out of the gates doesn't have those kind of restrictions, then you won't be able to enforce those | 00:58:50 | |
| restrictions on other franchise agreements. | 00:58:58 | |
| Unless you renegotiate the terms with the original. So we'd have to do a little bit of work before we put it into a franchise | 00:59:05 | |
| agreement to make sure that we're able to do it. | 00:59:10 | |
| I kind of I I'm kind of thinking more in general terms. | 00:59:15 | |
| Like. | 00:59:21 | |
| Honestly, it was hard to follow just because it's some terms that I'll try to state it a different way. | 00:59:24 | |
| We already have developments in the city and if the city granted franchise agreements for Google, for example, to come in and lay | 00:59:32 | |
| cable. | 00:59:38 | |
| You the Google agreement would be the template for any future Internet provider that wanted to come to the city. You can't put | 00:59:46 | |
| anything in the agreement that would be more difficult for the next entity than it is. So if you didn't block big boxes, so if you | 00:59:54 | |
| allowed Google to put big boxes, you can't keep the second provider from doing big boxes. OK, that makes sense and I understand | 01:00:02 | |
| that. I guess what I'm asking is more of, could we just change city code altogether and say. | 01:00:10 | |
| We want. | 01:00:19 | |
| Public utility boxes to be smaller than this size. Would it be up to the standard of the first franchise agreement but like even | 01:00:20 | |
| if we wanted to make a new code that like. | 01:00:26 | |
| Like those are grandfathered in. I think. I think we should look at it. We just have to do a little bit of homework as we prepare | 01:00:33 | |
| the ordinance to see what franchise agreements exist today 'cause they wouldn't expect us to go back and make them replace | 01:00:39 | |
| everything that's already there. I would just say from here on out you can do that and you would do it. So the city engineer | 01:00:46 | |
| developed standards for any public infrastructure and I think where we would put it is in the standards document that would say | 01:00:52 | |
| these are the types of boxes. | 01:00:58 | |
| That are acceptable to the city. | 01:01:05 | |
| And then anyone in the future that does that would have to follow those standards. | 01:01:07 | |
| Can I like Roberts rules? Can I, is there a point of something where I can make that a future? You're in a work session, so | 01:01:14 | |
| totally discussion. Yeah, I mean just talk to me about it and we'll get something put together and you can work on it. So there | 01:01:21 | |
| will be. So Marty, this may be something we can pair with what Naseem proposing. | 01:01:28 | |
| The We've come across an issue recently with some of the very early developments in the city where the public utility easement. | 01:01:36 | |
| It didn't call out all of the types of utilities that could be included. It separated out telecom and it said this PUE is for | 01:01:47 | |
| items ABC and D, it is not for telecom, period. | 01:01:54 | |
| And then what the developer did is they took the right to lay telecom cable and they sold it to the highest bidder. And so the PUE | 01:02:02 | |
| in those residential neighborhoods can only be used for telecommunications by one company. | 01:02:10 | |
| We have to close roads while they. | 01:02:52 | |
| While they put it in. | 01:02:55 | |
| What we'd like, what we're proposing and I guess what your feedback on is we would like to bring forward an ordinance that would | 01:02:56 | |
| prohibit that in the future, so when we have future developments come to the city for approval. | 01:03:03 | |
| There's probably very minimal standards. So because we're pulling it into our easement, I mean, I guess we would just pull those | 01:03:46 | |
| old contracts, I think. I think what you're getting at there is. | 01:03:53 | |
| Can the city go in and expand the things that can be put within that pu E? We can, but we would have to do it either by agreement | 01:04:00 | |
| with all the land owners or by eminent domain, which means you have to pay for it and that's expensive for the city. Now when you | 01:04:08 | |
| make an initial approval on a land use application, it's inexpensive for the city because they we already require them to create | 01:04:16 | |
| apua and put things in it. We just want to be clear in our ordinance. | 01:04:24 | |
| That they can't do the kind of thing that happened early on and limit. | 01:04:32 | |
| Pull telecom out or limit telecom to the provider they like and it seems like an other municipalities those crossings just happen | 01:04:38 | |
| without approvals and then they just kind of. | 01:04:44 | |
| The absorbent to the universe, which crossings are you like? Telecom was told. Maybe in our city, Fast tells the universal person. | 01:04:50 | |
| All of a sudden and another person comes in and crosses without those approvals, we're saying hey, this is the approval process. | 01:04:59 | |
| If it if it were a typical pu E that just said it's available for telecom, then any telecom company that wanted to provide service | 01:05:08 | |
| in the city would come to the city and say we'd like a franchise agreement to be able to lay our cable through all of your PUVS. | 01:05:16 | |
| We would review that, approve it, and then they can just pull a building permit to do the work to to lay that cable. We don't have | 01:05:25 | |
| that available to us in all the neighborhoods in the city because of this car map. | 01:05:31 | |
| So what about location of the box? I know that's been a hot topic and you can include that in your lens. | 01:05:40 | |
| For the homeowner or the property owner to have to give your or, I don't know. | 01:05:50 | |
| Their consent as to where they can, where they put up, it's probably something you'll have to review with all of the standards. | 01:05:57 | |
| Yeah, like like setbacks or places of entrances and exits and things like that. You can regulate it. | 01:06:02 | |
| Yeah, typically, again typically when it comes to locations of boxes, telecom can be companies tend to, but there's boxes at the | 01:06:09 | |
| edges of property lines as much as possible. Again, obviously there's everything's situation based on that. However, as we update | 01:06:17 | |
| our standards and specifications and codes, we can have a rest dictated that they would have to do that and if they there's an | 01:06:24 | |
| exception to that then they would have to just coordinate with the city. | 01:06:32 | |
| In terms of. | 01:06:39 | |
| Like the exemption on that, but typically I haven't talked to the telecom, telecom companies quite, but. | 01:06:42 | |
| Their first go to is at the edges of property lines as much as possible. Again, if when they're coming in after the fact that | 01:06:49 | |
| there's already something else there, like for example landscaping or maybe another utility. They tend to just try to cluster as | 01:06:57 | |
| close as possible. But there are standards and requirements in order for like setbacks like spacing for telecoms and power. They | 01:07:04 | |
| want they need to be spaced out far enough because otherwise they create their interference. | 01:07:12 | |
| But yeah, I told you that's something at that point we can take a harder look into to spell it out. | 01:07:21 | |
| So this is just a blow up of the note that the developer. | 01:08:02 | |
| Shall, except for any public utility easement shown reserved to itself and it doesn't need a right to design, engineer, construct, | 01:08:07 | |
| such and such communication facilities and the Public Utilities, which is an essence. An example of how everything the Public | 01:08:15 | |
| Utilities was dedicated to the municipality of the venue city for everything except for telecommunications which which prevented | 01:08:22 | |
| the city from being able to allow another company to come in and. | 01:08:29 | |
| Provide services and that and that public utility easement. | 01:08:38 | |
| On that so this is just a summary of what the proposed Veneer City code update would be. We don't have I mean we didn't write the | 01:08:43 | |
| code then of course we're going to take your feedback as part of as part of that where the proposed city ordinance will want | 01:08:49 | |
| prevent privacy preservation within a public utility easement and to. | 01:08:55 | |
| Reflective require all plats submitted to the city to have language decaying full Public Utilities months to to thinner city. | 01:09:04 | |
| And all that. So any other questions? It seems like something that could be beneficial is I feel like. | 01:09:14 | |
| The council can ask questions if they don't understand this. But it might be beneficial for us to start sending feedback of what | 01:09:23 | |
| we would like to see as you build the code. And maybe setting up meetings to review the code more in depth so that the council can | 01:09:29 | |
| talk about some of the concerns they might have. Especially as we add the standards that Marty mentioned. And then having each of | 01:09:36 | |
| the council talk about what they'd like to see those standards to look like. And then of course, when we do that. | 01:09:43 | |
| The my department specifically will engage with some of the telecommunication companies because for example an example is having | 01:09:52 | |
| the utility boxes underground for everyone would incur extra cost to other companies and we don't regulate what the utility | 01:10:00 | |
| companies charge to the homeowners. I'm not saying that they would but that could be those are the only effects that were those | 01:10:08 | |
| costs would be passed off down and we just want to be cognizant of the ramifications to our actions as well. | 01:10:17 | |
| And it would be really interesting to see what surrounding cities have done. And newer cities especially there are being able to | 01:10:25 | |
| build from the ground up, as well as how older cities were able to kind of fix past issues. Okay. Any other questions from any of | 01:10:31 | |
| the council right now? No, Okay. | 01:10:37 | |
| Thank you on this theme. | 01:10:44 | |
| We will go ahead and move on to 2.3 subdivision ordinance amendments and our economic development team will be presenting and | 01:10:45 | |
| Anthony, come on up. | 01:10:50 | |
| Good evening, Mayor and council members. | 01:10:57 | |
| I I I. | 01:11:08 | |
| Taking a minute. | 01:11:24 | |
| I have this feeling that I'm going to ask you to pull that microphone closer to you how you speak. | 01:11:26 | |
| Getting a vibe. | 01:11:32 | |
| Can you hear me? Great. | 01:11:42 | |
| All right. So my name is Anthony Fletcher. I'm a planner here at the city. | 01:11:45 | |
| And I will be presenting on the subdivision. | 01:11:51 | |
| Code amendments So. | 01:11:55 | |
| Through this and through this entire presentation, I will be taking us through the updates that have been. | 01:11:59 | |
| Necessitated by the state, the state law, I mean state bill. The Senate bill, SB174 requires that we make certain changes to our | 01:12:09 | |
| code. | 01:12:15 | |
| And get them adopted by February 1st 2024 and these changes. | 01:12:23 | |
| Pretty much affect the preliminary subdivision, final subdivision and Adu parking requirements, as well as landscaping bonds. And | 01:12:31 | |
| we took the opportunity as staff to also do a general code cleanup as well to make sure we're all in conformance with the state | 01:12:38 | |
| law. | 01:12:45 | |
| So as you may already know. | 01:12:55 | |
| In this presentation, I will be using subdivisions and plats interchangeably, just so we're all on the same page. On this slide, I | 01:12:59 | |
| have an example of a preliminary plat on the left side of the screen and a final plot on the right side. The preliminary plat | 01:13:07 | |
| pretty much shows an outline or layout of a land that is going to be subdivided, showing the lots. | 01:13:16 | |
| The roadways and pretty much the parcels of the of that land that's being subdivided. And the final subdivision does a bit more | 01:13:26 | |
| than that. What it does is it has a lot, it shows a lot more information. So you can tell this one on the right has, you know, | 01:13:33 | |
| setbacks shown on it. It has. | 01:13:40 | |
| Addresses. It has notes on the PUE like you just lent, and a lot more information about what is going to happen on the ground. | 01:13:49 | |
| So this is part of the process before you see a building rise up in the city, so after you have had approval for both of those. | 01:13:57 | |
| Preliminary and final plat you move on to applying for site plan which goes into. | 01:14:05 | |
| More detail on one lot or parcel that has been approved from the final plat. | 01:14:12 | |
| So having said that, this these are going to be the code amendments that are being proposed based on the state requirements now. | 01:14:21 | |
| Umm, we have divided this into two. We have the state, umm the state code ones and we have administrative recommendations that | 01:14:32 | |
| would help make the process smoother for us as staff of the city. So to begin with the pre application meeting is now optional. We | 01:14:39 | |
| use to require that before any applicant to apply for a preliminary subdivisions. | 01:14:47 | |
| The approval body has also changed from the City Council to the Planning Commission. We have also updated the public utility | 01:14:57 | |
| reference that we had in the code to the data version. We also do not require. We also just require 50% of utility plans and | 01:15:07 | |
| landscape plans and we also require that you have both on. | 01:15:16 | |
| One seat. We also have taken out the engineering and review cost. Before we had Nasim and other city engineers, we used to | 01:15:26 | |
| contract our engineering review to consultants outside. So we had to have a cost review section of the code. Now we don't need to | 01:15:35 | |
| do that and we have a the fee schedule to replace all of that kind of information. | 01:15:44 | |
| All applications are online. Hard copies are no more required by the code. | 01:15:54 | |
| That's a recommendation that we're we are having a staff and we have. | 01:16:02 | |
| The various parcels that are going to be. | 01:16:08 | |
| Going to be presented have to be have to be given addresses by the city engineer. | 01:16:13 | |
| We have also recommended that we add HOA maintenance responsibilities as well in the code to have a clear cut of what public works | 01:16:20 | |
| should be doing and what the HOA should be responsible for. | 01:16:28 | |
| And that would be very helpful for all residents as well. We have also included that we need to add the components of a title | 01:16:37 | |
| report for the application purposes because a lot of times people get mixed. | 01:16:43 | |
| Up with what a title report is and a title insurance is, so they look similar. | 01:16:51 | |
| For the final subdivision, we have an approval body being. | 01:16:57 | |
| The Development Review committee used to be the City Council and concurrent applications are no more allowed. | 01:17:02 | |
| Concept plans are now optional, but we strongly recommend that applicants. | 01:17:12 | |
| Share that with us as well in a city. | 01:17:19 | |
| Application review according to the state, has to be within 20 business days and of the city we have a staff. We have recommended | 01:17:22 | |
| that the plat after approval has to be recorded within two years. It used to be required to be recorded within a year. So all of | 01:17:30 | |
| these finals, final subdivision changes are bringing us into code with the state's code, except for the final plat recording which | 01:17:37 | |
| we're recommending. | 01:17:45 | |
| Two years, yes. Any questions on that from the Council? | 01:17:53 | |
| Umm, to clarify the the changes that we're making because that the way I understood it was the state code only requires us to have | 01:17:57 | |
| these changes made for residential, but we are doing both residential and commercial just to be consistent, right? | 01:18:04 | |
| OK. Any questions from the council on the differentiate differentiation between commercial and residential? | 01:18:13 | |
| Why are we doing it for both? | 01:18:23 | |
| So this would allow the process to move smoother and faster and would take away the block roadblocks. If we have to review | 01:18:28 | |
| applications that come in, those are kind of it formalizes as one process across the board as opposed to having two separate | 01:18:35 | |
| processes between commercial residential. Do you want to talk about any pros or cons that there might be out there? How many | 01:18:42 | |
| citizens have you engaged on this to get to know? | 01:18:49 | |
| Like businesses? | 01:18:56 | |
| Have you like citizen engagement on like, feedback? Yeah. And Morgan, maybe you can address that. It seems like they're saying, | 01:18:58 | |
| you know, is this going to be a detriment to any of those commercial businesses that causes them any agitation as they're going | 01:19:04 | |
| through this process or will it be a benefit? Can you talk about the pros and cons? | 01:19:10 | |
| It would align it with what the state is required for the residential. You could keep it that the commercial of the same process | 01:19:18 | |
| now if that was the decision of the the council. | 01:19:24 | |
| We like having it all of our subdivision plat as under the same process that makes it easy to administrate on the staff end as far | 01:19:30 | |
| as public process. This will be out for a public hearing with the the Planning Commission and then this the City Council for this | 01:19:37 | |
| is kind of the beginning of the process of like a work session with the we'll go through a week before we OK that's good. We're | 01:19:44 | |
| not voting on it tonight. OK this is this educational purposes OK go to the next one. | 01:19:51 | |
| So as I mentioned earlier, the final subdivision will be having the DRC as the approval body and the DRC. | 01:20:01 | |
| Would be. | 01:20:12 | |
| The Land Use authority for this, and it is pretty much going to be a technical review. That is why we have the members of the | 01:20:15 | |
| voting members of the DRC being the chair of the Planning Commission, the City Manager, RDA Director, the heads of department at | 01:20:23 | |
| the Building Engineering and Community Development and Parks and Recs. | 01:20:31 | |
| So any questions about this? | 01:20:40 | |
| Was the Planning Commission chair always on there when we reviewed on Tuesday? I think that's the new one. The ones that were | 01:20:45 | |
| added were the RDA entity manager. And so as we met with each of the council members, the thought was if we're going to have | 01:20:51 | |
| department heads, why not have all the department heads? | 01:20:56 | |
| That do land use type type decisions. You're already a director and your city manager are typically a part of the VRC so that puts | 01:21:02 | |
| it at 7:00. So those will be the seven voting members. You still have the fire Marshall and others that you know that that wanted | 01:21:10 | |
| to come in these would be like the the the voting members of the TRC you're this is one of the the more significant changes pushed | 01:21:17 | |
| forward by the state statute. You the city used to have plot approval occur final plat approval occur at the City Council level. | 01:21:25 | |
| The state law changed it so city councils can no longer be the final plat approval authority. You have three different options | 01:21:34 | |
| that the city really is where you would like this this to land. It can be a staff level approval, it can be a Planning Commission | 01:21:40 | |
| level approval or you can create. | 01:21:47 | |
| Land use approval Authority and what the city what the staff is proposing is that it be the 3rd that it be this authority and that | 01:21:54 | |
| that authority be the development review committee and they would be the land use approval for they would be the land use | 01:22:00 | |
| authority under state law for. | 01:22:07 | |
| Subdivision ordinance, final plans. This would also change the composition of that body a little bit. | 01:22:15 | |
| But that's that's the change. And then the political connection to the council is just our ordinances that they have to adhere to. | 01:22:22 | |
| Yes, there would not be a role. There would not be a role for the City Council in final approval. So it's a non. You actually | 01:22:29 | |
| can't have a role in that any longer under state law. | 01:22:35 | |
| Residential subdivision applications for one or two family residential units and townhomes. You do have latitude to decide whether | 01:22:42 | |
| this should apply to other types of subdivision applications, but that's a requirement. | 01:22:50 | |
| And maybe I can clarify more and maybe you're saying this is just they're following the codes that are already a part of our city | 01:23:00 | |
| to review these and the state's code and that's how they are going about it in a non political. | 01:23:06 | |
| Format. OK. Could you repeat what you just said, so this, so were you saying the state code only applies to certain types of | 01:23:13 | |
| housing for residential or all residential? Let me try to Orient you by going through how things were done previously, what the | 01:23:21 | |
| news, what the news state code requires. And then I mean I think I understand that. I guess you just want to know what the new | 01:23:28 | |
| state law applies to if if it does differentiate between types of housing. | 01:23:36 | |
| For us to make these changes, yes. So the only thing the state law requires is that the final plat approval for one and two family | 01:23:44 | |
| residential subdivisions that are only. | 01:23:52 | |
| One or two family residential units or townhomes. | 01:24:02 | |
| The final plat approval cannot happen at the City Council level, so other types of developments, if it's mixed-use or if it's a | 01:24:06 | |
| commercial development, you can still have the final plot approvals happen at the City Council level. | 01:24:13 | |
| Period then. OK, I have no questions further on that. | 01:24:50 | |
| My only concern when I met with staff was that the DRC, you know, the licensing and the education level on the DRC level, and I'm | 01:24:57 | |
| a little bit concerned on the chair of the Planning Commission because it's just they're not paid right. This is a pretty | 01:25:03 | |
| substantial role. It's like twice a month. | 01:25:09 | |
| Isn't it And the reviewing of staff. Yeah so the DRC would be meets twice a month but we would we would do the Platts. We would do | 01:25:17 | |
| like the voting as it needed based a lot of times it wouldn't be a voting meeting but when we had a plat it would be. But also | 01:25:24 | |
| just the background like you know Parks and Rec. I don't know if they have a background in this maybe maybe ours does. I don't | 01:25:32 | |
| know our director when we get on boarded also like the RDA or city manager so it seems like. | 01:25:39 | |
| You know the certificates or the training. It's like, why not just keep it to those that have the certification and training on | 01:25:48 | |
| it? Is it just because? | 01:25:53 | |
| That that we don't want to go below, but it is nice to have because you you would still need a quorum just like any other board. | 01:26:31 | |
| So if you have the seven then you would need at least four to to make a vote. If you have five, you need at least. | 01:26:38 | |
| And so it's nice to have a consistent voice. I think the city manager is over all these departments and is able has a overall | 01:26:45 | |
| perspective that individuals don't always have and the RDA does an entirely different job and expertise. | 01:26:54 | |
| And Land Management at a totally different way. So I I think that they bring something maybe not like everything, but each of them | 01:27:02 | |
| have a different perspective that I think gives the city a more robust understanding. | 01:27:10 | |
| That I would feel more comfortable with, with a few more voices than a few less. | 01:27:19 | |
| So I might push back just a small bit because that's that's two out of the 1234, that's 5 with the set with the two being a | 01:27:59 | |
| business background. So I feel like land use finance business and then the overall. | 01:28:09 | |
| The only restriction is that your land use authority on those limited types of flat approvals can't be the City Council. I think | 01:28:52 | |
| the effort is by the state legislature to depoliticize the approval process for housing to encourage more housing development, and | 01:29:00 | |
| so they give the city some choice in how you depoliticize that and who makes the approval. | 01:29:09 | |
| Every city is really different in staffing levels and those types of things, and so the decisions have been. | 01:29:19 | |
| Pretty different from city to city, as I've seen a few ordinances come through cities that have a really robust staff. | 01:29:28 | |
| Will often have those approvals at a staff level I what I've. | 01:29:37 | |
| Thought of in my mind as I advise clients on this is that. | 01:29:42 | |
| My concern on plats is that we're going to introduce errors by having fewer eyeballs on the plat and so having. | 01:29:48 | |
| A review committee with more people is actually preferable to fewer, as long as they can meet frequently enough to meet the | 01:29:58 | |
| statutory review deadlines, because we only get a limited number of views now at the documents once an application is complete. So | 01:30:06 | |
| we just need to be sure it's not so big that you can't meet infrequently. But more eyeballs from my advantage is better because | 01:30:15 | |
| we're more likely to catch errors and mistakes and have a really thorough review. | 01:30:23 | |
| That's the public meeting. | 01:31:07 | |
| And I should note, a policy thrust of the legislation was to not have public hearings on this. And I'll try to explain why I think | 01:31:10 | |
| it did that. What often happened on final plat approvals is neighbors would come and say, I don't like this development, you | 01:31:17 | |
| should not approve it. | 01:31:24 | |
| But you're making an administrative approval, and if that land use right exists and they make application within those rules, your | 01:31:32 | |
| hands were tied. So the cities would often confront a room full of people that didn't like a project, but the law would require | 01:31:39 | |
| them to make the approval. And so the people who came to offer comment left frustrated, feeling like they weren't heard. And the | 01:31:47 | |
| people on the City Council voting on the plat approval felt frustrated because. | 01:31:55 | |
| They couldn't do what their constituents were asking because the law required something different. | 01:32:03 | |
| And so where it was a technical review and not a public, you know, do we like it or not like it, kind of review the the statute | 01:32:10 | |
| requires you to take it out of the context where you're going to create that dynamic. The rub with it is if your ordinances aren't | 01:32:18 | |
| really tight, then you may end up having development that you don't like. And so the City Council has, from my view, an enhanced | 01:32:26 | |
| responsibility to make sure that the city code is how you like it and what you want it to be. | 01:32:35 | |
| Because if it's not, when an application comes, if it complies with city code, it'll move forward. | 01:32:43 | |
| Skype now. | 01:32:51 | |
| So in addition to the. | 01:32:55 | |
| Subdivision processes that need to be amended. We also have state code changes that recommends that we. | 01:32:58 | |
| Reduce the minimum parking spaces or requirements for accessory dwelling units and also landscaping bonds for certificate of | 01:33:08 | |
| occupancy is no more required. So one of the things that we said pay attention to the council even though this is just a work | 01:33:16 | |
| session, this is SB174 that brought in this code, this was pushed forward last legislative session. One of the things that the | 01:33:23 | |
| city did one of the requests from the public. | 01:33:30 | |
| Was that they wanted a reduction of parking on their streets. In most of the neighborhoods there was overwhelming parking on their | 01:33:38 | |
| St. surfaces and so they required in the city an additional space other than the four that is required for housing. So that if you | 01:33:46 | |
| had an accessory dwelling unit which was also brought in that everybody should is allowed to have them that they would have to put | 01:33:55 | |
| a parking space to kind of allow the city wise management of this. Now they are reducing this so you may. | 01:34:03 | |
| Receive pushback from a large group of your constituents that would be really good to bring together to the table for discussion | 01:34:13 | |
| as we get ready and prepared for the legislative session to decide how we want to discuss this moving forward at the state. You | 01:34:20 | |
| already have pushed back from me as a constituent that this really frustrated me when it was brought to my attention, and I had no | 01:34:27 | |
| idea that it even went through on the state level. There's so much going on there. | 01:34:33 | |
| I would love. | 01:34:42 | |
| To talk to the right people to fix this back because I think having that additional requirement has been very useful and helpful | 01:34:44 | |
| for for Vineyard specifically. And I understand there's other cities that have wider, longer roads and bigger lots that it's not | 01:34:51 | |
| as big of a deal. But for us, I think it greatly effects. Yeah. And I think the bigger issue that you're pushing on is that there | 01:34:59 | |
| was a reduction of Adus that went into other cities by like 65% plus if you had a main campus in your area. | 01:35:07 | |
| That doesn't fall into us. We are on the jurisdictional line of a main campus and then we have additional main or campus in our | 01:35:15 | |
| area. But because we didn't fall in the jurisdiction of the main campus, we didn't get a reduction of the 65%. And so because of | 01:35:21 | |
| that, it's it's not the wide roads necessarily. There's just when you have a 65% reduction of Adus and Armaprovo parking minimum | 01:35:28 | |
| or addition like an extra space, it doesn't affect your citywide management the same way that it does if you don't get that | 01:35:34 | |
| reduction in the city, so. | 01:35:40 | |
| Let's get together. I'll send out the names for these bills and the people that are working on them this session. And we're | 01:35:48 | |
| probably going to want to bring up those multiple facets of where we stand as a City Council will have to come together as we | 01:35:53 | |
| start reviewing those. So, OK. | 01:35:58 | |
| Do you have a question? What could you do? | 01:36:04 | |
| And just talking with other City Council members in the last month and a half and engaging with them, I can't tell you the | 01:36:07 | |
| frustration of the power grab from the state. It's embarrassing. It's something that we need to fight for our sovereignty of. | 01:36:13 | |
| I haven't ran into a City Council member that. | 01:36:21 | |
| Enjoys it. Even Debbie Larae of Orem or some of the others is just like we need to be speaking with our House and and Senate | 01:36:25 | |
| Connect, you know connections of. | 01:36:30 | |
| You know, it's America. These, these things were sent down to the city. And I know that the big old legislature will come in and | 01:36:36 | |
| pound their chest and say, I have the power or whatnot, and we just need to be advocating for that. Yeah. And we'll definitely get | 01:36:42 | |
| you guys up to date on what we've been doing and what we've been able to bring into the city so far and what we've been able to | 01:36:47 | |
| hold back. We have some really strong relationships. So this will be a good start to this legislative discussion. Go ahead, | 01:36:53 | |
| Anthony. | 01:36:59 | |
| So this is going to be more of a recap of what has been proposed to what is currently happening. So these are the approval, | 01:37:06 | |
| designated approval boards that we have. | 01:37:11 | |
| So City Council. | 01:37:18 | |
| On the final Plat has changed to DRC and City Council for the approval body has also changed to Planning Commission. | 01:37:20 | |
| So the next steps, as you already know, this is the working session we would have. | 01:37:32 | |
| A public hearing on January 17th, Planning Commission and City Council in January 24th. | 01:37:38 | |
| And just a reminder, this has to be adopted the the state code has to be adopted. | 01:37:47 | |
| First, additionally with these approvals, we'll have to create the TAC in our Commission ordinance and our committee's ordinance. | 01:37:55 | |
| So we'll see that on the agenda coming forward as well. | 01:38:00 | |
| The DRC as attack, I thought you said TA salmon, I did. Technical advisory committee is our DRC, You know, right. I mean, it's not | 01:38:06 | |
| a complaint and I know I'm new, but this is a working session and we didn't only got it 24 hours before. And it would have been | 01:38:14 | |
| amazing for me to be able to go out to constituencies so that they could be here during the working session and to have them hear | 01:38:21 | |
| about it, you know, 'cause this is one of their opportunities for them to engage us on the process. | 01:38:28 | |
| And moving forward, I would totally need to have this before like the topic so that I can tell all of our constituents so that | 01:38:36 | |
| they can be here. A 24 hour notice isn't sufficient. Like it's just not. I know maybe it's been that way for. | 01:38:44 | |
| In terms of like engaging the citizenry, in my mind it's like you would allow us to know. | 01:38:54 | |
| A week before, hey, there's going to be a working session on this X issue and it allows me to go for those that are 4 or against. | 01:39:02 | |
| I actually like to hear the people that are against, you know, before I get to the working session so that I'm educated enough to | 01:39:09 | |
| ask questions. And I have a background in government procurement, but I do not have a background in planning, you know and so like | 01:39:16 | |
| for me to make an educated decision and and all of us have a different backgrounds, right and so. | 01:39:23 | |
| I'm going to come into a working session like today and I didn't get to talk to anybody for or against it. So I'm not even able to | 01:39:31 | |
| even develop some questions or have them here. I love the date, you know on on both sides of the issue and so like and I'll talk | 01:39:37 | |
| to both all the department heads when I meet with them but and I've kind of said that like. | 01:39:44 | |
| Just making sure that citizens are are for, against And then the last thing is, is so there's two things that are going on here, | 01:39:52 | |
| what is state required and then also what is staff suggested and I'd really like to get that delineated in color extremely well so | 01:39:59 | |
| that I can have a packet to send out in this two week period so that they so that the citizens can know, hey these are some | 01:40:07 | |
| changes I can do a YouTube special on both of those. | 01:40:14 | |
| Or against so that when I come back on January 24th, we can have that council meeting or whatnot. But like the the working session | 01:40:22 | |
| is a great opportunity for citizens to be here and it's like we skip this and this is a big there's a massive change. | 01:40:31 | |
| You know, especially like it's residential, but then also it's like combined with let's do commercial the same way, even though | 01:40:40 | |
| that's not statement, it's like we need to make sure that citizens know that we have that option to vote on to include both of | 01:40:45 | |
| them on, right? | 01:40:50 | |
| So you have something to share about work sessions? Well, I can, I can try to describe the change in the process. The the City | 01:40:56 | |
| Council hasn't in the past held work sessions like the one we're holding today. And the intent behind it was to try to get out | 01:41:04 | |
| what we've heard over the last few months of please don't bring things for action when we haven't heard about them. So today's | 01:41:12 | |
| discussion was intended to be an orienting and kind of educational discussion. | 01:41:19 | |
| In advance of when you would hold the public hearing. | 01:41:28 | |
| OK, so that you could. | 01:41:31 | |
| Hear from staff have the opportunity to ask questions, look at documents, you know that kind of thing. Lots of cities when they do | 01:41:34 | |
| work sessions like this could do it around a conference room table. We have enough people come to our meetings, so that's tough to | 01:41:40 | |
| do. But if you imagine that you are sort of around a conference room table, this is intended to be that kind of tabletop | 01:41:45 | |
| discussion where we would say. | 01:41:51 | |
| Here are the ordinances we're forecasting that are coming down the Pike. We want to give you a general understanding of what they | 01:41:58 | |
| are so that you can begin asking for information that you would need and and other things. So I I think what you just explained | 01:42:05 | |
| will be helpful to staff. They could try to, you know separate the document in a way that you could. | 01:42:12 | |
| Public and then they'll be able to watch the video. Have two weeks, but you got the note on a color coordination and things that | 01:42:58 | |
| you needed. Was there anything other than anything else the council wanted? | 01:43:03 | |
| To give us suggestions before we move off this item. | 01:43:10 | |
| Um, yeah, sure. Come up to my microphone. | 01:43:19 | |
| It's not a lot. | 01:43:21 | |
| Thank you. | 01:43:28 | |
| Karen Cornelius, resident. | 01:43:30 | |
| I just think that we're missing a point that Council member Holdaway made and that is that we need more than 24 hours. I just | 01:43:32 | |
| think that's, I think that's the crux of what he's saying. He would like to be able to notify people so that, I mean even for me, | 01:43:39 | |
| I would have liked more than 24 hours. That's a lot to read, to digest, to try to understand for the right person. And tonight has | 01:43:47 | |
| helped a lot and I appreciate it, but I do think. | 01:43:54 | |
| That we deserve a little more time. I don't know how long you knew it was on the agenda and that's not my problem. That's. But | 01:44:02 | |
| just let us know. Give us time. | 01:44:07 | |
| Oh, wait one second. I'm going to go ahead and take this and then I'll allow for discussion, parents. So we go ahead and sit down | 01:44:14 | |
| here and I'll address your comments. We're not going to take any more comments on this. | 01:44:18 | |
| But I will say this his points of 24 hours notice and I think what Jamie is saying, so maybe I can try to make it clear for the | 01:44:22 | |
| public so that you can understand it is. | 01:44:27 | |
| In the opportunity for the residents to come is during the public hearing and the notice. The minimum notice requirement is the 24 | 01:44:33 | |
| hours. So what we did was we took two weeks in advance notice, 24 hours in advance of this meeting to give a conversation that's | 01:44:41 | |
| sitting here. So now you don't have 24 hours notice for your public hearing. | 01:44:49 | |
| You have over 2 weeks for that time. This work session is a discussion for the council that we are now doing publicly to say, hey, | 01:44:58 | |
| here's all the things, Jake, Sarah, Amber, Marty, they all met with staff all week and talked about this presentation and gave | 01:45:05 | |
| their feedback, asked questions about it. Now we're here in the public and we're doing it again for the public. But also actually | 01:45:13 | |
| it's for us and it's to do in the public eye so that we can notice it two weeks in advance. | 01:45:20 | |
| Now you don't have 24 hours. You have two weeks in advance notice. But to keep the business going, I'm Jake, if you have a final | 01:45:28 | |
| comment on that, I can understand and concur with that. But this law passed in the session last year, right? So we knew as a | 01:45:35 | |
| planning department in April of last year that we would have to be facing this moving forward in April, May of last year. We | 01:45:42 | |
| should have been saying, hey citizens, there's going to be this big structural change that happens. I'm not doing a public notice, | 01:45:49 | |
| just doing a. | 01:45:56 | |
| Planning department is going to be facing this. | 01:46:04 | |
| So that it's so far out because we knew this right when the state legislature changed. Well and maybe maybe we did but and I don't | 01:46:07 | |
| know if we want to do clarity right now, but we should learn about this before we say it because sometimes what actually happens | 01:46:13 | |
| is a lot of bills go through and it goes to the state entity. They get all of the information and then they send us notices and | 01:46:19 | |
| sometimes we get notices towards the end of the year or mid year or at some point. | 01:46:25 | |
| OK, state right. So we knew July 1st but it but it passed in it goes official July 1st for the for the legislature. I'm just | 01:46:34 | |
| saying that. | 01:46:38 | |
| If we can change the culture so that especially with the legislative session that we look at the end of legislative session for | 01:46:43 | |
| all departments that this is coming down from the state. So that in April, May we're as department saying this is going to be on | 01:46:49 | |
| the agenda. Democrats, Republicans on both sides. Because what I want is the citizens to fight it out themselves and come to a | 01:46:55 | |
| debate so that we're not the decision body but that there's some sort of debate that's happening in the public square. So it's | 01:47:01 | |
| like hey, we waited. | 01:47:07 | |
| Sure. As far as like putting that the public haven't. Yeah we I mean yeah we can always do better. We started working on this from | 01:47:46 | |
| a staff side doing an auditor for code and that took a few months. I mean it was a pretty big deep dive and we went through the | 01:47:53 | |
| entire code and quite frankly we're extremely busy and so like we we kind of take things as we can and but yeah I'm duly noted | 01:48:00 | |
| we'll we'll always try to do better to to get things out. | 01:48:08 | |
| And I'm going to stop comments on this particular item just because I feel like we've, we understand, we know how we're gonna move | 01:48:16 | |
| forward. It was good commentary. I think you've really spoken good points and I think there's one more that's different though, | 01:48:22 | |
| which is not only the timing, but it's also a minimal citizen requirement of how many are involved in the development of that | 01:48:28 | |
| process. Totally love the staff that they're involved and that they went through and got together and their professionals and | 01:48:34 | |
| going through and doing that. | 01:48:40 | |
| But in every city you want to and every department's a little bit different. But like as you're going through, how many people | 01:48:46 | |
| would like to be involved? How many people would like to be behind the scenes? How many could we deputize and say, hey, I just | 01:48:52 | |
| want to listen and be involved because cities can do that. We don't have to be, hey, nobody gets to know until like staff works | 01:48:57 | |
| over here and then and then they know. | 01:49:02 | |
| You know working at the National League of Cities, I've learned and just going to the national organization, that's like, yeah, if | 01:49:09 | |
| if somebody comes and approaches the planning department and says. | 01:49:13 | |
| I'll work for free. I'm a volunteer. I'd love to just sit in the meeting. And as we're developing this policy or code, it's just | 01:49:18 | |
| so helpful if you build relationships or whatnot. So I know this isn't for this specific code, but as an organization, as an | 01:49:25 | |
| ordinance for departments, or as a good best practice, it's like I would like to. | 01:49:31 | |
| Involve that and not only just for the constituents that believe in the way I think, but the constituents that don't believe the | 01:49:39 | |
| way I think, so that both sides are kind of represented in that. | 01:49:44 | |
| Getting really down to the finite description of plots and then building upon those decisions going forward. | 01:50:51 | |
| We talked about a little bit of some legislative topics and how we're going to start at the base of those and talk and move | 01:50:57 | |
| forward. I'll review some of the things we're going to be doing next during public comment. There's a period of time that we get | 01:51:04 | |
| to talk. This is a time that's not generally on the for items that are on the agenda. These are not things that we can take | 01:51:10 | |
| immediate actions on unless it fits that emergency opportunity like Jamie was saying or if we want to have a discussion. | 01:51:17 | |
| There's a lot of rules that go with it that I usually set at the beginning of a public comments period that we adhere to to keep. | 01:51:25 | |
| To step into me and we will start helping you accomplish your goals throughout the year and then we'll start doing some of those | 01:52:05 | |
| reports. Anybody that's had meetings, if you could hold your reports until next time, that would be really helpful. | 01:52:12 | |
| Coming next, then, what we'll do is we will go through our staff reports, we'll have a consent agenda, a consent agenda and we'll | 01:52:20 | |
| talk a little bit about the obligations here as you get these agendas. What you'll want to do is go and schedule time with first | 01:52:26 | |
| the city manager who will take you through the departments that you will be discussing. | 01:52:33 | |
| Umm, any item that is on the agenda. You want to do this as soon as you get the draft so that you can start going through them. | 01:52:41 | |
| It'll go through a period where you can discuss those drafts and then they will be noticed and made public. | 01:52:46 | |
| If you have something that public comments, I mean public sorry, public comment, thank you for that correction. This is a time to | 01:53:26 | |
| talk about things that are not on the agenda. You'll come up to this microphone, you'll state your name, you'll share your | 01:53:31 | |
| comments with us and then we'll close in 15 minutes today. So is there anybody that has a comment that they would like to make to | 01:53:37 | |
| the council? Come on up, state your name where you're from and what your comments is. Elizabeth Holdaway. I'm from Washington, but | 01:53:43 | |
| I live in Vineyard now. | 01:53:49 | |
| I just have two quick comments. There's not a ton of people here today, but I I know you've had to start raising your hands. I | 01:53:56 | |
| would like to petition somehow that those hands are counted so that when you write down your whatever comments you're writing down | 01:54:04 | |
| that you can have a check mark or somebody can say, wow, you know, 15 people raise their hands. They almost really agree with that | 01:54:11 | |
| statement or that concern or that issue. So somehow because there's lots of times where. | 01:54:18 | |
| I'm raising my hand because I don't always want to stand up, right? But I would love for my voice to be heard and counted. So I'd | 01:54:26 | |
| love if there was some way to do that just to have for future meetings. And then kind of going back to Jake's comments, last | 01:54:33 | |
| meeting. And I'm sorry there were so many things thrown at us in the last three meetings, but Jamie made a comment to this, either | 01:54:41 | |
| the RDA loan for the $41 million one. | 01:54:48 | |
| Or it was the PID where you asked. You said we do ask for at least seven days notice. | 01:54:56 | |
| Who wanted to be here, where we're scared to drive in this Blizzard, So I think more people would come if the weather had not been | 01:55:32 | |
| crazy tonight. But for the rest of the times where there's been lots of people coming, it'd be nice to have that notice. Thank | 01:55:37 | |
| you. | 01:55:41 | |
| Hello, my name is Jordan Christensen. I'm a resident Vineyard. A couple of us have brought to you a let me get the words right | 01:55:50 | |
| here. A small, occasional non pecuniary gift worth less than $50. Hopefully you haven't gotten too many of these in the last 9 | 01:55:56 | |
| days. | 01:56:01 | |
| But what we've brought to you is a book that is called Paved Paradise, How Parking Explains the World. And as the name suggests, | 01:56:09 | |
| this book is about how parking, because of our many regulations, ends up dominating many parts of our lives in our cities. | 01:56:18 | |
| In it, you'll find stories about how parking is central to not only cars, but also transit, public space, architecture, affordable | 01:56:28 | |
| housing. | 01:56:32 | |
| And stormwater flooding and the treatment of our environment. | 01:56:37 | |
| And to be clear, I'm not anti parking and this book is not an anti parking book. I think it's easy to assume because. | 01:56:42 | |
| I obviously ride my bike a lot of places that maybe I am somehow anti parking. In reality, having mostly ridden my bike for most | 01:56:53 | |
| trips that I make in the past year, I've actually had more. | 01:57:00 | |
| Difficulty finding as far to park my bike and lock it up securely than I have ever had parking a car somewhere so I'm not anti | 01:57:08 | |
| parking. What I am pro for is better parking and better parking regulations and better parking management. And I think in this | 01:57:16 | |
| book you will find really great ideas to to achieve whatever goal you have in terms of mobility and enabling better access for | 01:57:24 | |
| people regardless of their transportation mode. | 01:57:32 | |
| So I hope you do spend some time reading this and I hope you are approaching from a point of curiosity of this authors and many | 01:57:41 | |
| other people's critiques of the status quo when it comes to parking codes. And finally, I hope you, after reading this, will take | 01:57:48 | |
| some time to consider if the status quo and what we have right now is really the best path forward to being good stewards of the | 01:57:55 | |
| earth that we've inherited. Thank you. | 01:58:03 | |
| Thanks. | 01:58:10 | |
| My name is Tyler Harrelson. I live in Edgewater. | 01:58:15 | |
| Just want to make a couple of comments. First one, I noticed I walked in. Jacob's placard says hold away. I know, right in your | 01:58:19 | |
| name, so we'll fix it. I saw that. I noticed, so I figured I should have mentioned so it could be fixed. I've been in South | 01:58:25 | |
| America and they say it that way anyway, so it's funny. Yeah. | 01:58:31 | |
| But no one ever is pronounced the D. | 01:58:39 | |
| Should still be there. | 01:58:43 | |
| My other comment was so north of Edgewater, you've got 400 N that borders the, I think it's the yard development, the Forks | 01:58:46 | |
| development, the one with Megaplex Theater and all those different areas. Because I live there and I'm checking my dog out and | 01:58:54 | |
| things, I see people all the time walking across that road and because I drive to work everyday using that road, I noticed that | 01:59:01 | |
| there's there's a turning lane there that is really not necessary. I don't think I've ever seen. | 01:59:08 | |
| Even nearly enough traffic. I think I've waited behind one person before, but I don't think anyone's ever needed to use that that | 01:59:16 | |
| turning lane. So I'd love to see that entire Rd. change to the. Currently it's classified as a collector. I think you should | 01:59:22 | |
| probably be a local St. | 01:59:28 | |
| Just because it's not really necessary to have so much, and if there's another connection to Orem, I would be nervous if so many | 01:59:36 | |
| people walking across that, if it's built to be a large, faster Rd. that people get hit because I walk over there all the time. | 01:59:43 | |
| Part of where we bought in that area specifically was so I could walk to the theater or or to get pizza or whatever it is with my | 01:59:50 | |
| wife anyways, so. | 01:59:57 | |
| My sort of longer term suggestion is to to make it more of a slower Rd. so that in the future if there is connection or if there | 02:00:05 | |
| isn't a connection it's safe for people walking and can encourage multiple forms of transit while still keeping driving an option. | 02:00:11 | |
| The other thing was in the shorter term, taking out that turning lane could add space for on street parking which would be great | 02:00:17 | |
| our development has. | 02:00:24 | |
| Thanks. | 02:01:01 | |
| Thank you. | 02:01:04 | |
| Hi, David Larae from Holly Rd. | 02:01:07 | |
| I just want to say thank you very much to the to the mayor and to Jamie attorney for for this work session that we've held | 02:01:11 | |
| tonight. I recognize as a departure from the usual and an attempt to put to be more open and to bring the discussion to the | 02:01:17 | |
| Citizens Center. And I appreciate the intent behind that. And I said thank you very much for that. It said I find it refreshing | 02:01:24 | |
| and helpful. So thank you. | 02:01:30 | |
| I'm Keith Holdaway, resident vineyard. | 02:01:41 | |
| I wanted to express appreciation to Marty for responding to any to a text message. I I sent out a message, a questionnaire, and to | 02:01:44 | |
| many, many people and I heard from Marty and and our city manager, so I appreciate that. | 02:01:53 | |
| But I didn't hear back. A couple weeks ago I asked the question about the theater and the golf, and I asked for about about how | 02:02:03 | |
| much we, we were returning to those facilities, tax money and I was promised. | 02:02:12 | |
| By the mayor. I'm sure she has a lot on her plate, but she was promised me a correspondence and I haven't received that. I'm. I'm | 02:02:23 | |
| really wanting to know that as a citizen. Thank you for the follow up. OK. Thank you. | 02:02:29 | |
| Karen Cornelius, resident. | 02:02:42 | |
| I appreciate it, Keith, coming up because that was one of my questions and since that question was asked in a public setting. | 02:02:44 | |
| So that was. | 02:03:29 | |
| Whether that happens or not, I know you can't respond to that. I just want to say that I too appreciate tonight because I think | 02:03:30 | |
| that in any relationship, no matter how large the relationship is or how intimate it is, it's about communication and trust. And | 02:03:38 | |
| that's something that has been severely lacking in the past. And I feel like we've taken a step tonight and I feel bad at how I | 02:03:46 | |
| feel. | 02:03:53 | |
| About the things that go on here, and I don't want to feel that way, I want us to be able to work together for the common good. | 02:04:01 | |
| And so I hope that this year we can work on building that trust and increasing our communication. | 02:04:08 | |
| Now I have a question about the meeting on the 27th. That was it was the decision on the public hearing that night. Everything was | 02:04:17 | |
| moved so that we could meet. | 02:04:22 | |
| Not on the 13th, but it was at 12. Oh. | 02:04:29 | |
| Like 12:10 in the morning when it was decided that we would move that meeting till the 27th. | 02:04:33 | |
| To talk about the east side PID, which we did however. | 02:04:39 | |
| That was a public hearing that was postponed and there was number public comment allowed in the meeting on the 27th. | 02:04:46 | |
| And I have a question about the East side PID that I need to have answered because we have seen, we have seen plans and we have | 02:04:53 | |
| heard plans and we understand the concept that the developers have for the West side. | 02:05:01 | |
| Maybe I'm in the dark, maybe I'm lost, but I don't know what the east side is going to contain and yet we have approved a PID for | 02:05:10 | |
| that east side. Is this opening the door? And this is my question that keeps me awake at night. Is this opening the door? | 02:05:19 | |
| To our inland Port Authority because we don't know what the plan is for the east side, but yet the PID was approved with no | 02:05:29 | |
| further comment on the 27th and that was really disconcerting because a lot of us gave up continued family Christmas time to be | 02:05:37 | |
| 27. Thank you. This is the last comment. | 02:05:45 | |
| Good evening, Mike Cox, resident. I just wanted to say really quickly that. | 02:05:58 | |
| One of the things I really appreciated about Tyson like was that he really did stay on top of a lot of what was going on in the | 02:06:05 | |
| legislature. And I learned a lot from him in these meetings about what was going on. And so I just wanted to say that. | 02:06:12 | |
| I appreciated that. And I kind of feel like now maybe it kind of falls to all of you to kind of pick up what he was doing so that | 02:06:21 | |
| we as vintage residents stay on top of it. I mean, it's a it's a power grab from the state. I mean, I I think it's horrible that | 02:06:31 | |
| you guys should have to give up part of your duties and powers. I mean, that's ridiculous. So that's all. | 02:06:40 | |
| Thank you. All right. Just to touch on a few things, I'm going to work backwards. We will definitely stay on top of it. Everybody | 02:06:49 | |
| plays a different role in dealing with it and enticed in a marvelous job reporting it. So don't worry about that. We will. We'll | 02:06:55 | |
| be on that and appreciate your support and your comment. | 02:07:01 | |
| The public comment was completed. The public hearing was completed on the 13th, the decision was continued to the 27th. So the | 02:07:08 | |
| public comment was finalized on the 13th and then the council's decision was continued for the 27th. That's the difference. I | 02:07:14 | |
| don't know if you want to clarify that any further, Jamie. | 02:07:20 | |
| Or if I did a good enough job. No, it's that's how I understood it too. So on public hearings, you notice it for a specific date | 02:07:27 | |
| and we allowed the public hearing to occur and it wasn't, It was closed prior to that meeting, which myself. | 02:07:34 | |
| Yeah. I wanted to add to that. I don't think we realized it was going to be moved either. Otherwise, we could have had the | 02:07:42 | |
| opportunity to leave it as an open public hearing, right, Like we can continue a public hearing. Yeah, we can always continue a | 02:07:48 | |
| public hearing. I think we completed the public hearings on the 13th to keep business moving forward. | 02:07:54 | |
| And is there just for future, just like a general question, do we ever want to like, read public hearing something if we feel like | 02:08:00 | |
| it's important to the public or is that? | 02:08:05 | |
| To come back and be voted in by the body, be discussed, it would come several times, it would go through probably a long process | 02:08:43 | |
| like the PID did. So that's something that you can stay involved in and the PID isn't something that opens doors for those things | 02:08:52 | |
| if they're, they're separate in and of themselves. Let's see, I would like to make a comment on that like, sorry, go ahead. | 02:09:00 | |
| I firmly believe Atlanta, Fulton County does this where they put in an ordinance that it requires like a 30 day process on big | 02:09:10 | |
| projects, something like that. | 02:09:15 | |
| That is such a massive thing. I can't tell you how many constituents felt violated by either the pit or the in the poor or or Utah | 02:09:21 | |
| city where it's like. | 02:09:25 | |
| It's something and I don't know how to define size or scope, but it's like. | 02:09:32 | |
| For or against need to have, you can't petition your government if you don't know what your government is doing is always kind of | 02:09:37 | |
| a default. And so it's like, I would like this body to look at the ordinance and put something in so that it doesn't matter if | 02:09:45 | |
| it's Utah City or whoever, there's some sort of requirement so that it's not slammed on any of this like that. And there's ways to | 02:09:52 | |
| do it. I will look at Fulton County's ordinance. I know it's a county, but it really stops. | 02:10:00 | |
| Some anger and it allows the citizens like a 30 day period to kind of know hey this is coming up because the port was like, hey, | 02:10:08 | |
| we're dropping three different things and we're learning it in 48 hours and I won't be a part of a body that does that. Like it's | 02:10:14 | |
| just it feels wrong and it and it just. | 02:10:20 | |
| And so sometimes when you see something like an inland port come to the public, you're like why is the inland port coming here? | 02:11:00 | |
| But it is the first opportunity that we had to not only say it for the council who's learning, but allow the residents to know | 02:11:06 | |
| that we're learning about it. And that's the beginning of a very transparent open process. This allow you to have the very first | 02:11:12 | |
| presentation with the City Council and that was the the meaningful way that we went about it. I want to talk about something that | 02:11:18 | |
| came up that I think needs clarity. | 02:11:24 | |
| And a process that the City Council needs to look at when we're talking about public notices. | 02:11:31 | |
| The PID notice that was mentioned actually had a ten was a 10 or 14 days. Do you know the land use I think is is it 10/12/14, it's | 02:11:36 | |
| I believe it was 10 days, 10 days, so it wasn't a 24 hour. But what I'm noticing is that I think it's the packet that the | 02:11:45 | |
| residents are talking about as far as when you get information and the packet is a courtesy that is given that is a policy that | 02:11:53 | |
| internally we should talk about during the retreat. | 02:12:01 | |
| On how to provide additional information as a council. So looking forward keep that in mind on we can get some recommendations we | 02:12:10 | |
| can look at other opportunities but I think what the residents are actually asking for is not noticed because notice is given at | 02:12:18 | |
| all different times and at different lengths but it's the the packet of information I would add I would I'm going to I'm going to | 02:12:26 | |
| close on comments here just to wrap things up. If if you want to discuss kind of further on what that looks like let's do it. | 02:12:34 | |
| Like that's who we work for. | 02:13:15 | |
| Like I've got to be able to. I didn't even answer any of their comments I wrote down, and we've got to go through it with them. | 02:13:17 | |
| Like this moment is for all of us, right? Isn't that the rules? It's just not. The chair of the meeting has discretion over this | 02:13:24 | |
| portion of the meeting. OK, I'll take it up on my time. | 02:13:29 | |
| Alright, let's go ahead and move forward to the next agenda item. It was a consent agenda and it seems like some of our council | 02:13:37 | |
| needed additional time to review it. Would you guys like to continue this to the next meeting or would you like to take it off at | 02:13:43 | |
| this meeting and discuss it right now? | 02:13:49 | |
| I would take it off, but discuss it. | 02:13:56 | |
| Yeah, OK. So we're going to actually discuss 16.1 and 6.2 in order. Were you guys able to read the minutes of the City Council | 02:14:00 | |
| meeting? If not, let's go ahead and continue it to the next meeting. | 02:14:06 | |
| So I I just have a comment on that and I don't want to be mad at any staff or accounts or anything like that. But you know I | 02:14:14 | |
| called all the various cities throughout this throughout the county and they've all done really good onboarding things from the | 02:14:20 | |
| last week of November or the first week in December. And where they brought all the city staff in and department heads and they | 02:14:25 | |
| had this amazing. And I I've spoken with previous council members as well where they give the opportunity to just be educated and | 02:14:31 | |
| know everything, right. | 02:14:37 | |
| Not being given that opportunity, me and Sarah really put us behind, you know, and I know now we're going to do it next week. And | 02:14:44 | |
| I made a big deal on social media about, hey, we're not, we're not prepared, but. | 02:14:49 | |
| We're in a different world now with divided government. You know, me and Sarah obviously have a different viewpoint, and that's OK | 02:14:57 | |
| that's OK. It's going to require all of staff and us to have kind of a more rigorous debate than what's happening. But in order to | 02:15:04 | |
| have that, we have to be educated. And really, I asked Mayor Frost of American Ford, the new staff had 25 hours that they've met | 02:15:11 | |
| with, with all their divisions. Like I was blown away. | 02:15:18 | |
| Spanish Fork, they were like 18 hours where they were just sit down and talk and throw up ideas and go through and and do that | 02:15:26 | |
| type of stuff. | 02:15:30 | |
| You know and so I look forward to the meeting with the various departments and stuff but like even just going through point of | 02:15:34 | |
| order and and and the minutia cuz you know all the different ordinances the city of county are different So just I just want to | 02:15:39 | |
| say that me and Sarah have an open. | 02:15:44 | |
| Door we want to learn and we want to just take that time to get to know you guys. And we're not cold, even though we like might be | 02:15:51 | |
| very serious and really passionate. It's actually just because we're passionate about some of the values. It's not an anger thing | 02:15:56 | |
| or you know, we we're just come from a different opinion. | 02:16:02 | |
| Yeah, and I can say every City Council person on here has varying opinions and there's different obligations that all of us have | 02:16:09 | |
| to take on, and there's always going to be robust conversation. | 02:16:16 | |
| We each city has a different process that they go through with onboarding. We do a government 101. We put everybody through a | 02:16:26 | |
| legislative training with the Utah League of Cities and Towns. We slow down our first agenda and we go through it with all of the | 02:16:32 | |
| departments. I learned that you didn't go through the consent agenda. | 02:16:39 | |
| So. | 02:17:59 | |
| To be fair, I didn't even know we were supposed to read the Councilman. Like we have had no instruction. Yeah. And I think that's | 02:18:01 | |
| what we're doing here if if you, if you don't know it or understand it because you went through most of the things on the business | 02:18:07 | |
| items. Am I right? Did you meet with the departments this week? No. No. | 02:18:12 | |
| I thought you did meet with Honey. We went through the subdivision ordinance. That's all we did. | 02:18:19 | |
| I think the staff is doing the best that they can. They're also in a flux position where you've got a new city manager coming in | 02:19:45 | |
| and they're if if they didn't go over the consent agenda with you. I understand that's frustrating, but it's not for lack of | 02:19:51 | |
| training or a lack of process that's coming forward for you additionally, like I told you, anything that's on the agenda. | 02:19:58 | |
| And I I think we can look forward to that. I'm going to close this discussion and ask that we make a motion on either continuing | 02:21:16 | |
| these items or discussing them now. | 02:21:20 | |
| All in favor, aye. Any opposed? | 02:22:07 | |
| Are you opposed? Did you say I'm OK to talk about it? Aye. OK, Everybody is on board. We're now in a public hearing. Eric, will | 02:22:11 | |
| you go ahead and present? | 02:22:16 | |
| Yeah, thank you, Mayor. We, we have a budget amendment before us. This is the first one of the year. | 02:22:23 | |
| The goal of this is to add 117,000 total to the Planning Department. The intent behind it is to allow for us to train, certify and | 02:22:32 | |
| promote from within the the Planning Department. | 02:22:41 | |
| So that we have some staff that are ready to take on not only regular review of projects, but also to manage some of the master | 02:22:52 | |
| planning efforts that we have underway right now and that could take some of the workload from our planning director and divide | 02:22:59 | |
| that up so that we're balancing that that workload effectively. | 02:23:06 | |
| And then the source of that fund for for us is an increase in our property tax. | 02:23:17 | |
| It's an increase in our property tax, correct. So every quarter we get a, we get a report back on our property tax revenues and | 02:23:26 | |
| OK, it's because our property tax amount increased, correct. Not that you're asking us to increase the property tax. | 02:23:35 | |
| OK. It is because we have increased revenue. OK. That is good. That is clarifying. | 02:23:48 | |
| Sorry, you really had us going there. Yeah, I was like what, what is happening? 22% increase? No, thank you. OK, well, anybody | 02:23:57 | |
| from the residence or constituents have any commentary on this? | 02:24:04 | |
| Mayor this evening to share the documentary document. Yes, please. Yeah, could you share the document? Do we have a document? | 02:24:13 | |
| Go ahead, Kim Cornelius, resident I just want to make sure I understood what just took place. This is and I'm coming from the | 02:24:27 | |
| previous meeting on the 13th of December where at the conclusion of the finance directors comments, she asked about the | 02:24:33 | |
| possibility of funds to hire A. | 02:24:40 | |
| Senior planner, yes, thank you. And so that's not for, for that specifically, it's for possibility of generating expertise within | 02:24:48 | |
| the ranks and maybe promoting somebody to that position. Yeah, yeah, what's the title change? And he indicated that the funds or | 02:24:55 | |
| that the accessibility of the funds through increased taxes probably was somewhere mid January or February. And Oh my gosh, the | 02:25:01 | |
| government got it to us early, can't believe that. So that's that's what I'm understanding. We already got the. | 02:25:08 | |
| It's there. | 02:25:16 | |
| Each quarter we get a report from the tax Commission on our on our property tax revenues and when that quarterly report came in | 02:25:19 | |
| that provided enough of a bandwidth to allow for that increase. So that's what he was referencing in the previous meeting then | 02:25:25 | |
| Okay. Great. Thank you. Thanks again. | 02:25:31 | |
| Other comments. | 02:25:39 | |
| Sort of Christensen again. Yeah, generally, I think it's much more cost effective to promote from within. | 02:25:49 | |
| Yes, sorry, Jordan Christensen. I think it's much more cost effective to try to promote from within rather than potentially | 02:25:56 | |
| starting new with somebody else. So yeah, like in favor of. | 02:26:03 | |
| Moving forward with trying to promote. Thank you. | 02:26:11 | |
| Another comments OK, it doesn't look like there are any other comments from the public. I would like to go out of a public | 02:26:17 | |
| hearing. | 02:26:19 | |
| So thank you, Marty. Second by Amber, all in favor. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Council, do you have further questions on this? | 02:26:24 | |
| Is this something that you'd like to look into a little bit further? Tell me your feelings. | 02:26:32 | |
| I just have a question. I thought it was one position that you were opening up. You said train, promote and certify staff. Is this | 02:26:43 | |
| more than one person or one in particular? | 02:26:49 | |
| This would be to take one staff member, get them additional certifications and build them up to this new position that we would be | 02:26:56 | |
| promoting from within on. | 02:27:02 | |
| So no, not all. | 02:27:08 | |
| Just one correct. | 02:27:10 | |
| And is this just to help you be more efficient or effective or? | 02:27:14 | |
| Yeah you're absolutely right Sir. So but right now we we manage a lot of master plans and so that's that's where we we need the | 02:27:19 | |
| the the most help And then with the current planning that would be applications that are coming in we're we're going to see a | 02:27:26 | |
| really large uptick in those applications. And so we'll we'll we'll we'll need kind of senior planner typically is the person who | 02:27:34 | |
| helps to to manage a lot of that workload as applications come in and then overseeing master plans. | 02:27:41 | |
| Things like the waterfront master plan, that's something that we've been working with the county on for a while. There's as an | 02:27:50 | |
| example that those tend to take, you know, 100 plus hours, you know, just within a given year each each master plan, so. | 02:27:57 | |
| So is this largely because of Utah City coming and what you're anticipating? | 02:28:05 | |
| Yeah, that that that would be a big piece that we also have you know the whole all the way fields that the project that's that | 02:28:10 | |
| that's underway several plats, lots of building permit reviews. Yeah, we're working on the parking master plan, on the economic | 02:28:15 | |
| development strategic plan. | 02:28:21 | |
| Stationary plan, the fire station, and yeah, the A tag grant. That's a grant through MAG to help us provide more pedestrian safety | 02:28:28 | |
| planning services. | 02:28:34 | |
| So there's there's lots of grants and things like that that this position would help us kind of organize those and then you know | 02:28:41 | |
| work with each, each of those master plans have committees and meet several times and so that's that's the person that would help | 02:28:47 | |
| to facilitate and manage that process for us. OK. Thank you. | 02:28:53 | |
| Jake, did you have a question? | 02:29:00 | |
| It's not. You guys press that to the microphone at the same time. | 02:29:02 | |
| Yeah, I feel like I need to get on board with the whole department and understand the whole budget of all departments first. Like | 02:29:06 | |
| financially, where things are, where they're not, where their priorities are. It's nothing against this position or this person or | 02:29:12 | |
| everything, but hopefully meeting with them next week. But I couldn't vote on anything. I don't even understand or no, I know | 02:29:17 | |
| there's a few planners in that, but OK, I feel really comfortable with this, but I'm more than happy to wait for orientation for | 02:29:23 | |
| them to go and review the budget. | 02:29:29 | |
| And I don't feel like you guys need it right now. You could wait until after the orientation. Is that right? OK. I would feel | 02:29:35 | |
| really comfortable with that. Yeah, I'm happy to make a motion to postpone or to continue the vote if everyone OK. But I do feel | 02:29:43 | |
| comfortable with what's happening as well. But we can wait to make sure everyone's on the same page. Hey, that's great. | 02:29:51 | |
| Can I put a point of order? I just want to make sure you're clear about what you're continuing. You close the public hearing and | 02:30:01 | |
| so you would be continuing action on the item, not public hearing on the item. | 02:30:07 | |
| If you wish to continue the public hearing, you would have to make that part of the motion. | 02:30:14 | |
| Would it be appropriate to move it to our next council meeting on the 24th? | 02:30:52 | |
| And then if they still don't, if you still don't feel prepared, we can talk about it then. | 02:31:00 | |
| OK, so I make. | 02:31:06 | |
| I make a motion to move the public hearing and as if I don't do I need to specify the two? I make a motion to move 7.1 Public | 02:31:08 | |
| Hearing Budget Amendment Resolution 2024-01 to next councils meeting on January 24 first by Marty. | 02:31:18 | |
| Let me be second by Jake. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right, I need a motion to adjourn. So moved secondary. Second prior. | 02:31:29 | |
| Amber all in favor. Thank you for coming. | 02:31:35 |