Start Position
Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at 6:00 PM. Councilmember Flake gave the invocation and led the Pledge of Allegiance.   2.      Work Session 2.1  Water Tank Mural design Planning will lead a discussion about the Water Tank Mural Design.
Mayor Fullmerturned the time over to Community Development Director Morgan Brim.
Mr. Brim explained the process staff had gone through to this point. He then turned the time over to Aljay Fuimaono who is the artist chosen to paint the water tank mural.
Mr. Fuimaono explained that he had presented a rough draft as part of his original proposal. The proposal was displayed on the screen. There was a discussion about the timeline for completing the mural, the design, and the time allotted for public comments.   3.      Public Comments
Mayor Fullmer called for public comment.
Resident Randy Gray, living in The Villas subdivision, thanked the council for the recent Town Hall that had been held for his subdivision. He expressed his concerns with the proposed property tax rate increases. He asked the council to coordinate a meeting with state legislators to discuss these increases. He also expressed his concern with tax abatement and the income that was used to determine the qualifications. Councilmember Sifuentes read the property tax rate increase proposed by Alpine School District. She said that the hearing for this item would be held on August 8, 2023 at 6:00 PM in the Alpine School District board room. Mr. Gray felt that seniors on a fixed income needed special consideration.
Resident Daria Evans, living in The Villas subdivision, thanked staff and council for the town hall meeting that was held last week. She also thanked the Sheriff’s Department for patrolling Vineyard Loop Road. She thanked the Public Works Department for their work in cleaning the city. She expressed concerns that there was a lack of parking at venues in the city. Mayor Fullmer shared that there was more parking coming. A discussion ensued.
Resident Karen Cornelius, living in The Villas subdivision, felt that the Yard development was wonderful but gave up going because she couldn’t find a place to park. She said that the city had to plan ahead for parking needs. There was a discussion about parking in the Yard and Edgewater developments.
Ms. Cornelius asked about the timeline for a grocery store. Mr. Nair replied that they were in the site planning process and hoped to have an announcement in about two weeks.
Resident Tyler Haroldsen, living in the Edgewater development, felt that a good location for a grocery store would be on the empty lot on Mill Road. He mentioned that he had purchased a home a couple of months ago and stated that the more walkable they made the city, the more he would leave his car home. He was in support of having more mid-street crossings.
Resident Jordan Christensen, living in The Preserve, felt that people who were choosing to live with roommates might be the ones who chose to leave their cars home. He felt that the city should include protected bike lanes. He felt that it was unacceptable if driving was the only option.
Mr. Gray commented that, 15 years ago, the largest developer in Maricopa County made the observation that parking garages were expensive, but there were times when they needed to be imposed. Mayor Fullmer responded that they were being included in the downtown area.
Mayor Fullmer called for further public comments. Hearing none, she closed the public comments session.     4.      Mayor and COUNCILMEMBERS’ REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS
Councilmember Welsh reported that they would be holding the first ARCH Commission meeting on August 8, 2023. She also reported that the city had grant funds to improve the shoreline. She reviewed some of the improvements that would be happening soon.
Councilmember Sifuentes reported that there would be a Vineyard community event on August 7 at 7:30 PM at Grove Park.
There was a discussion about the shoreline improvement process.   5.      STAFF, COMMISSION, and committee REPORTS 5.1
City Manager Ezra Nair reported that the partial closure on Main and the Connector installing the water line had been delayed and that they would put out a notice on social media when it would start again. He suggested that residents take their trash cans in as soon as they can after they are emptied because of the high winds they had experienced lately. He reported that the 1600 North mid-block crossing had been designed and was sent out for pricing. He also reported that the installation of stop signs and red curbing in neighborhoods was ongoing.
Mayor Fullmer asked council to schedule time with Mr. Nair and Mr. Mortensen to discuss the proposed fire station before the next council meeting.     6.      CONSENT ITEMS 6.1  Approval of the June 27, 2023, City Council Town Hall Meeting Minutes 6.2  Approval of the July 12, 2023, City Council Meeting Minutes 6.3  Approval of an Amendment to the Municipal Code Chapters 5, 8, and 10 (Ordinance 2023-25) 6.4  Ratification of an Amendment to Homesteads Impact Fee Agreement
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion.
Mayor Fullmer appointed Kevin Sekaquaptewa to the ARCH Commission and then called for a motion to support the appointment.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAYOR’S APPOINTMENT. COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.     8.   Presentations/recognitions/awards/PROCLAMATIONS No items were submitted. 9.      BUSINESS ITEMS 9.1  PUBLIC HEARING – Zoning Text Amendment (Ordinance 2023-26) Planner Cache Hancey will present a proposed Zoning Code amendment to the VZC Section 15.38.030 Parking Requirements to modify the off-street parking requirements for hotels or motels. The mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by ordinance.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to open the public hearing.
Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Planner Cache Hancey.
Mr. Hancey reviewed the proposed zoning text amendment and the research staff had done. A discussion ensued.
Karla Mata with X development reviewed Provo’s code. A discussion ensued about the code and parking requirements.
Mayor Fullmer called for public comments.
Resident David Pearce, living in The Cascade subdivision, asked about the hotel research that had been done, specifically had they looked at the occupancy rates in the Wasatch Front and, and seasonal occupancy rates. Mr. Hancey replied that he had pulled the occupancy rates from the national association of hotels and lodging and were specific to Utah. He noted that nothing had listed seasonal uses.
Mr. Tyler Haroldsen handed out a hotel peak parking demand report from the Institute of Transportation Engineers. He asked if any of the council had been to a hotel where they could not park. There was a brief discussion about parking at hotels. He reviewed the handout. He felt that the city should let the hotels determine their parking needs. He also felt that the current Utah code was not applicable to hotels.
Resident Russell Evans, living in the Villas subdivision, stated that he had expressed his concerns during the Planning Commission meeting and that after further discussion was okay with removing the visitor parking. He also felt that the mayor should allow for public comments during the council discussion period, which was after the public hearing had been closed.
Resident Christian Haroldsen, living in The Cottonwoods subdivision, expressed concern with how the code was studied. He felt that it should be up to the hotel to determine their parking needs.
Resident Jordan Christensen, living in The Preserve subdivision, felt that they should make the decision on evidence-based research. He felt that they were trying to predict how many cars would be showing up at the hotel, which was hard to do. He said that there was only one variable used, which was the number of rooms.  He felt that they should collect other variables, such as what amenities exist around the hotel. He also felt that the hotel had a profitable interest, and the city should not be controlling their parking.
Mr. Hancey noted that the seasonal occupancy for hotels was 70 percent during high demand in July and 39 percent during low demand in January.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to close the public hearing.
Councilmember Rasmussen mentioned that the last update to the code was in 2018. Mr. Brim added that this section was not altered at that time.
Councilmember Sifuentes stated that she was frustrated to see this request. She felt that it was a common theme that there were a lot of concerns about parking. She said that she had been in a position where she was without a car but was able to work it out. She had no interest in changing the code at this time.
Councilmember Flake added that having sat here for eight (8) years, he had had people scream at them about parking and then had people question their judgment. He had been through a number of interesting occupations and when he was able to separate the talk and the fallacies that some people believed, there were answers. He had made a number of judgments in the eight (8) years and found that he could never please anybody. He was a firm believer that if you build bigger roads and parking lots you invite more cars, and with smaller parking lots you invite more criticism. He stated that he was not pleased with the proposal and expressed his frustration.
Councilmember Welsh expressed appreciation to the residents who shared their experiences in the city. She felt that this was a tough decision and wanted to get it right. She felt that that there was nothing wrong with looking at what other cities had done before they made a decision.
Mayor Fullmer stated that she was big on property rights and liked the comments that were made tonight. She felt that if the hotels controlled their parking and their occupancy rate, they would have enough parking. She added that they wanted these types of businesses to come to Vineyard. She felt that this amendment would not be an issue. She said that they could stipulate that hotels had to control their parking and have the code only added to the (Geneva Regional Mixed Use) GRMU District. Mr. Brim requested a continuance so staff could draft language. There was a discussion about the possible motion.
Councilmember Sifuentes wanted to know what future businesses would need. Ms. Mata replied that they were not ready to disclose the potential businesses because of ongoing negotiations. She noted that they would not be able to fit the hotel on that lot if they had to include the 10 additional spaces.
Mayor Fullmer recommended a continuation with the additional stipulations.
Councilmember Flake was in support of the mayor’s motion.
Councilmember Rasmussen felt that they should not overregulate the parking.
Councilmember Welsh was in favor of continuing this item and looking into Provo’s code.
There was a discussion about the motion.
Councilmember Sifuentes added that she had concerns about there not being enough parking in the area where the residential building would be located.  Mayor Fullmer responded that hotels would regulate their own parking and if there was not enough parking for the residential, they should ramp it up. A discussion ensued.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to continue the item to a future meeting.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER FLAKE MOVED TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION OF ITEM 9.1 ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO A FUTURE DATE. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS FLAKE, RASMUSSEN, SIFUENTES, AND WELSH VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 9.2  PUBLIC HEARING – Zoning Code Text Amendments (Ordinance 2023-27) Planner Cache Hancey will present proposed Zoning Code amendments to the VZC Section 15.12.060-Dimensional Standards Table to increase the maximum building height in the RMU District. The mayor and City Council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by ordinance. (The council will not be taking action on the proposed text amendment during this meeting.)
There was a discussion about the motion to continue or strike this item.
Mayor Fullmer called for a motion to adjourn the meeting.
All right. It looks like we're rolling. We're going to go ahead and get started. The time is 6:00. 00:00:16
It is July 26, 2023, and I'm going to call our Vineyard City Council to session. 00:00:21
We'll start with our council member, Tice Flake, and he'll lead us in an invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:27
Thank you. 00:00:35
Alright Emily. Father, we give you thanks for this day. We are most thankful for this. 00:00:37
Good land in which we live and for the. 00:00:41
Good people that surround us, we ask thy blessing to be upon this city. 00:00:44
They will continue to prosper that you might bless us as. 00:00:48
The Council and Mayor that we will make wise decisions on behalf of our. 00:00:52
Folders. 00:00:57
We give you thanks for the people who service. 00:00:58
For the fire and protection. 00:01:01
For the good men and women who serve in our armed forces. 00:01:04
We ask that you watch over and protect them at all times. 00:01:08
Again we thank you for the rain that has fallen. Nurses are ground and we say soon. Jesus Christ, Amen. Please stand. 00:01:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the Republic states, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:01:21
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:01:27
Alright, we'll go ahead and move right into our work session. Today we're going to be talking about the water tank mural. A lot of 00:01:36
you in the audience have asked about it. So you've come to the right meeting to learn a little bit more about it. Tonight. We 00:01:42
won't be making a motion, we'll just be discussing some general guidance that will go to the Arch Commission. 00:01:48
So Morgan Brown will come up and talk and then we'll hear from the artist as well. And council, you'll have the opportunity to ask 00:01:54
some questions and give a little bit of guidance that will eventually go. 00:01:59
See the Arts Commission and then come back to the public. 00:02:05
Great, thank you Mayor. Members of City Council appreciate this opportunity to be before you tonight and talk about the the mural, 00:02:21
this was something that was funded in the budget for for us to undertake this year. As you know we have a a pretty significant 00:02:27
wall that's going to be facing. 00:02:32
Front runner. 00:02:39
And so the council found that it would be great a great spot to create a gateway feature and to add art as we come in on to the 00:02:40
city and so provide kind of that that I guess that first sign of of your in Vineyard. 00:02:46
Um. 00:02:53
And so we put out an RFP. 00:02:54
And received, I believe, 10 responses. 00:02:56
And of those was algae. Algae in the back right there gonna give away. 00:03:00
LJ is a is a a local artist and a very talented. We went through the proposals and you know his was the the, the best proposal. We 00:03:06
absolutely loved it and we're lucky enough that he's he's a vineyard resident as well. So they'll be able to add some art to to to 00:03:13
his his his own town. What we wanted to do I guess the process from here is that we would. 00:03:21
The current first stop, get some general guidance from what kind of you're wanting the the water tank, that wall to represent as 00:03:30
you come down front runner into the city. What what do you want people to see? 00:03:36
You know what's what's kind of the general feel? 00:03:44
That you want represented there. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you know, necessarily have to get like details you want. 00:03:46
You know this type of tree. 00:03:51
You want a specific type of bird, just generally to provide some guidance to the artist, so I don't know if I'll do you want to 00:03:57
come up and maybe just do a quick intro of of you and. 00:04:01
Kind of some of the work that that you've done and then we can just get some guidance from the council. Hey, how's it going? 00:04:06
I'm LJ 7, Phillip bit underdressed I just came from. 00:04:13
Probably lucky I thought it was gonna be smaller meeting. 00:04:16
Like oh, oh. 00:04:20
But yeah, I kind of put together a little. 00:04:22
Rough draft of what I thought. I've been in videos for about 8 years now, so just something to. 00:04:25
Well, I felt kind of represented. I put it in the proposal, but I don't know if you guys wanna. 00:04:31
Look at that and kind of go off of that and then just add or take away or whatever, I don't know. 00:04:37
But but. 00:04:42
Yeah, whatever ideas you guys have. Whatever you think. 00:04:44
Would represent our city. 00:04:48
Ohh. 00:04:50
So. 00:04:51
Whatever you guys think, would you know? 00:04:52
Select We could represent our city and art piece. 00:04:55
I can pay whatever you guys want. Really. That's great. 00:04:58
I'm Cashier pulling that up right now. 00:05:02
OK. 00:05:04
So another another topic was stay connected. 00:05:09
From the the RFQ that we got, so I just kind of put like. 00:05:14
A couple of different. 00:05:19
Subjects or topics in staying connected like. 00:05:21
Our environment and the season that I use, the colors of the seasons for the mural. 00:05:26
Um also. 00:05:32
It's a multicultural city. 00:05:34
Very umm. 00:05:37
You know, a lot of different cultures. So I I kind of added all of that in. 00:05:38
And just kind of make it then in the middle of the whole mural has. 00:05:42
Vineyard City. 00:05:45
And then stay connected underneath. 00:05:47
Yeah, it's a big wall. 00:05:51
And just to kind of add to that as well we'll have we we we do have a some funding to provide some lighting for for the wall too. 00:05:57
So we'll probably talk with a lighting designer as well. So that as you come through that could be just a really great spot to 00:06:04
kind of pop you know and you have good lighting imagine riding front runner South and night as you come off of work and we've been 00:06:10
able to see just something really cool with there. 00:06:17
I think it would be kind of neat as the Arts Commission goes through the process to. 00:06:25
Kind of invite the public to look at some of the top choices and make comments. Or before those top choices come, submit ideas 00:06:31
about staying connected and what that looks like. 00:06:36
You know, stay connected as the model or the. 00:06:42
The mantra of our city, I guess. And so people could. 00:06:46
Written ideas for the Arts Commission to look at. I think that could be. 00:06:50
Interesting. 00:06:54
Fun engagement. 00:06:57
What do you think you're? 00:07:09
Estimated time as you think I could do some reports. 00:07:10
So this is one of the things that we, if we wanted done this year, we'll have to let them move it fairly quickly. 00:07:14
You have to go through the approval process. We we have about a month, you know maybe a little bit longer, but we we do want to 00:07:23
be. 00:07:26
At being able to have algae out there in September and you know, September you get a little, a little bit of wet, but in October 00:07:31
it gets, it gets worse. 00:07:35
And I got in the colder it is, the harder it is to do a mural. And my understanding is about three or four weeks is kind of the 00:07:39
the the, yeah, because it's such a big wall and we're talking 220 feet in length by 220 feet in height. And so yeah, this is kind 00:07:47
of a mock up just to generate some some ideas about about the types of stuff. 00:07:54
That that you could see. 00:08:02
And Cash, do you have some of his sample art that you guys shared in that same, it might have been in that same yeah document. I 00:08:04
think it would be good to show his style of art so people can take. 00:08:09
That and actually see what it might translate to. 00:08:14
Because I like your style. 00:08:19
I think an interesting thing is to right now the concept was kind of a banner and I think there's also opportunity to explore as 00:08:22
panels. 00:08:26
There's opportunities for panels where you could. 00:08:31
Individually. 00:08:33
Pick images that represent the community and kind of do like a timeline of images. 00:08:35
That was one in Park City that was one down the street. 00:08:41
A very young Zach Wilson. 00:09:05
You know, I was like, can we just put an athlete on the wall and call it that? I really like that. 00:09:08
You could, yeah, yeah. 00:09:13
Don't we have a, A? Why can I think of all? Yeah, we have a, We have a professional football player in town. That's what's that he 00:09:18
plays on the Kansas City Chiefs. 00:09:22
Now he lives here. 00:09:28
And we have many. 00:09:31
We have many. OK, well, we'll need a few athletes, then we'll couple retired. 00:09:32
Yeah, athletes. That's right, Pam. Pam is a professional ping pong player, pretty much, so we could put her on it. 00:09:36
You know, she did get city clerk. 00:09:44
Of the year. 00:09:46
So I don't know if you guys knew that or not. We have. 00:09:47
The number one clerk sitting in our midst. 00:09:50
Well, I think in general, I think there's so many opportunities that will be explored. As for me, I believe the public engagement 00:09:54
working through these concepts. 00:10:00
Allowing the public to come and talk to the Arts Commission, that's going to be my discussion and. 00:10:06
Representing lots of different facets of the community, business, all sorts of things. So there's going to be a lot of good 00:10:40
insights coming from the Arts Commission and then. 00:10:44
And the public could we can have our social media say, hey, submit a word or something, submitted idea. We could do multiple 00:10:49
things. Maybe you can work with Bethany and Catherine to do that. Well, I love the proposal. 00:10:55
Yeah, that's nice. 00:11:01
A beautiful artist question. 00:11:03
What are you going to, you are going to prime the surface, correct? Yes, OK. 00:11:06
And. 00:11:13
And the type of material, because of the intensity of the sun era, I know you're familiar with the fade factor, yes? So what are 00:11:14
you gonna use as that prime? 00:11:19
Paint that's going on there, so usually there's a polyurethane. 00:11:24
Protected over I put on all the murals. Most of my murals are outside, right? And so they have have I still have murals that's 00:11:29
been out like. 00:11:33
Eight years and still. 00:11:37
Looks brand new and. 00:11:39
So the the, the protector works for those walls. But ohh. Yeah. So it'll take a whole day to just private Ohh Yeah, it's it's a 00:11:41
big wall. So yeah, so I just drive up the road. 00:11:47
Actually is a benefit of having a local. Yeah, we can. I agree. Yeah, Yeah, I. 00:11:54
I only concerned with the structure of the art. 00:12:02
Is thinking about this presentation in the sense? 00:12:05
We've got two audiences we had. 00:12:08
There's some people who brave that horrible Rd. 00:12:10
Like I do, yeah. 00:12:14
And can go slowly and. 00:12:15
Get lost in the wall or something. 00:12:17
And. 00:12:20
Then there's the train that goes by really fast. So. 00:12:21
I think that should influence, yeah, the presentation. 00:12:25
Yeah, I think making it less busy. Yeah, something just. 00:12:28
Real bold. 00:12:33
On the wall that represents everything. 00:12:34
And even just having the name, you know, Vineyard City. 00:12:37
Where people can see that real bold to that comes in but then just kind of adding all the little. 00:12:40
Things around that but the trends not too wide. I brought in kind of just looked at you are going out but you still get a really 00:12:46
good deal, right? Yeah, it's about 35 miles an hour by the time it gets there. And then the vineyard. Yeah, just realized it's a 00:12:51
little dark on there. 00:12:56
I probably just do. 00:13:03
Ohh wait, like how did the city? 00:13:04
So really the only the only thing I would say before it goes back to Arch and I absolutely believe we should reach out to the 00:13:07
public and get comments and let Arch do their. 00:13:11
Do their job. 00:13:16
I would just say I would love to see Vineyard. 00:13:17
Really. 00:13:20
Yeah, Bigger. Yeah. I would hope that the wording was bigger. Staff people see that. It's not a question like, what did that say? 00:13:21
Yeah, And then also. 00:13:25
If we're going to do lighting. 00:13:30
Lighting is. 00:13:33
Really important and can be done in so many different ways. 00:13:36
So I'd recommend. 00:13:39
If we could find who the lighting designer is going to be. 00:13:40
At the same time, so all they can discuss. 00:13:44
With them, how that lighting is gonna work and that cause that could be part of how it shapes, how the mural layout. It doesn't 00:13:46
have a flat light, that's fine, but if there's gonna be anything special to it that could change. 00:13:52
Ohh that design. 00:13:58
Sorry. 00:14:01
Thank you. 00:14:02
I'll just add, I'm excited by how encompassing it already is. You're covering a lot of important things for vineyard residents, 00:14:03
and I was. 00:14:07
Enamored with your work when I saw it, when you shared it with the city, so I'm really looking forward to seeing you come up with. 00:14:11
I I did add a little bit of. 00:14:18
Like the past. So it was like the past, the future, the present. 00:14:20
And I got I found some old pictures of Geneva steel. 00:14:24
Then I have I have couple uncles that live in Orem. They used to work here. 00:14:29
Genuine steel, so they. 00:14:34
Told me stories about it and so ohh probably something cool. 00:14:35
Perfect. Yeah, you really did capture a whole spectrum of what represents our community, so. 00:14:39
That's great. OK. Well, if that's we can have cash e-mail you the proposal that was sent that'll have passed or work as well. And 00:14:46
if you could, you know, you could provide some detailed comments or just some general guiding themes as well and that'll help us 00:14:52
and then. 00:14:58
We'll start fine tuning things as we get to Arch. 00:15:05
It's perfect. OK. Thank you. Looking forward to this. 00:15:08
That's alright. We'll go ahead and move on to our public comments. This is a time for the people in our audience to come and 00:15:11
address the council, the things that are not currently on the agenda. 00:15:16
If you want to share a comment, come to the podium, state your name where you're from and then. 00:15:21
Share your comment with us. 00:15:26
Mayor, former members of the council and city staff, my name is Randy Gray and I reside in the 55 plus community of Waters Edge. 00:15:32
Umm. 00:15:42
As I proceed with my comments, I want to start by acknowledging what. 00:15:44
Amber and Christie were able to do this past week. 00:15:49
In coordinating our community coming together. 00:15:53
For a meeting and we had multitude of of staff and different topics presented including the County Sheriff's Department. 00:15:57
Uh, the fire department chief Um. 00:16:07
Somebody from the county Tax Commission, just a multitude of people. 00:16:13
That was scheduled for an hour and 15 minutes. We went three hours and few people left, so that tells you that they were spot on. 00:16:18
And we appreciated it very, very much. It was well done and well coordinated. 00:16:27
Um. 00:16:34
One of the presenters that evening summarized property tax valuations and proposed taxes due to the county. 00:16:34
That raised a lot of questions and I've been concerned about it. My wife Julie and I have been concerned about it for some time. 00:16:44
Umm. 00:16:51
He made it very clear. 00:16:52
That the only thing that the county does is the data analysis. 00:16:55
That any statute revisions or changes come through state legislature. So the reason I'm presenting this evening is to plead and 00:17:00
ask our leaders on the City Council to help coordinate a meeting with any of our. 00:17:08
Senators or representatives who we might get to a meeting and. 00:17:17
Mayor Palmer, I appreciate what you're already starting to do on our behalf for this. 00:17:21
Um, I think it's important to note that while our. 00:17:27
Entrance sign to the community says 55 plus the average age exceeds 70. 00:17:31
And the reason that's important is that we believe that the county imposes continually excessive taxes on property valuations. 00:17:37
And with 69% going to the Alpine School district. And I can say that because my wife worked 18 years in the Alpine School 00:17:47
district. 00:17:51
That is extraordinary. In fact, I heard today from. 00:17:56
Who I affectionately refer to as my godfather in Arizona, Tom Freestone who BYU graduate. 00:18:01
Wrestler. Football player. 00:18:07
Uh, the only person in the history of Arizona that elected to all three branches of government, of government and including as a 00:18:10
judge. 00:18:14
And he said that the 69% figure is the highest rate in the country. 00:18:19
And I think that needs to be addressed along with what we do. 00:18:25
What I would really want to undermine is the fact that when we submitted. 00:18:30
And appeal. 00:18:37
And we were denied. 00:18:39
And it's specified that the Utah State code currently includes both taxable. 00:18:41
And non taxable income. 00:18:47
To determine eligibility abatement. 00:18:49
Our issue and on behalf of a lot of senior citizens. 00:18:53
Is. 00:18:58
Including 100% of Social Security. 00:18:59
Is double taxation. 00:19:03
And folks in 1776? 00:19:05
We had a tea party at Boston Harbor for double taxation. 00:19:08
And that needs to be reduced and I have found through my own contacts and work throughout the country. 00:19:13
That there are multitude of states that include abatements over a specified age and they do not include. 00:19:20
Your Social Security income for consideration. 00:19:28
So while we recognize that you can do nothing this evening, or even acknowledge anything, we really need your help and leadership 00:19:31
to bring us all together to see if we can formulate some changes to that existing policy. 00:19:38
Awesome. Well. 00:19:48
I have been working with Amber and I mentioned to you that we're working with the tax revenue chair for the committee at the state 00:19:49
already talked to him that you guys would like to kind of get before them, express this to them. 00:19:55
And we can all sit down in a room together. And he said he is more than happy to take the time to talk to you. 00:20:02
And then Marty is actually going to be attending the school board meeting. I don't know. Talk about that for a minute. Yeah, I was 00:20:07
gonna share this in my. 00:20:11
And the Council report, but I can share it now. 00:20:15
It's completely applicable and it's not what you're going to want to hear. 00:20:17
On August 8, there's a public hearing for a tax a proposed tax increase in property tax revenue. 00:20:20
I'll go ahead and read these three bullet points. It says the Alpine School District tax on $493,000 resident would increase from 00:20:28
1029 to 1 thousand 12119, which is $189 more per year. 00:20:34
The Alpine School District tariffs on 493,000. 00:20:41
And a business of 493,000 would increase from 1800 to 2200, which is the difference of. 00:20:45
Roughly 345 per year. 00:20:51
If the proposed budget is approved, Alpine School District would improve increase its property tax budget. 00:20:53
Revenue by 13.65% above last year's property tax. Budgeted revenue. 00:21:00
I'm excluding eligible new growth. 00:21:06
So this is a big deal and it's August 8th at 6:00 at Alpine School District. 00:21:09
They're boardroom. 00:21:15
I'll be there. Um, it's going to be a long meeting. It's gonna have a lot of public comment and. 00:21:16
I will do my best to represent our community, yeah, and if you do want to attend, it is open to the community and you can go and 00:21:23
make public comment. Additionally, the chair of the Tax and Revenue Committee is aware of it, and I think you'll find a lot of his 00:21:29
current attitudes favorable to lowering taxes and keeping that. 00:21:35
Not increasing the rate. I can't speak for him, so forgive me, tax revenue chair, if you're saying something I shouldn't decide, 00:21:42
but I think you will be able to have good conversations. 00:21:47
I would conclude with this observation on on behalf of seniors that first of all. 00:21:51
My wife convinced me to move to Utah. It's the best decision I ever made. We have 16 grandchildren up here. 00:21:56
And all of our children are triple digit income. 00:22:04
Uh, honors. I'm not saying everybody is. 00:22:08
But the fact of the matter is, seniors on fixed income have to be given additional consideration and when you consider. 00:22:11
How much value? 00:22:18
Uh, the property valuations have gone up in the last two or three years, Five years. 00:22:20
Um, the fact of the matter is what I heard. 00:22:26
Consistently from our residents. 00:22:29
Is that doesn't put food on the table or pay other bills and I think that's an important consideration in all of this so. 00:22:32
We thank you for at least listening and your interest. And I again thank you Christine. Thank you, Amber, for what you did to help 00:22:41
preside over that meeting. 00:22:45
Excellent. Thank you so much. 00:22:50
OK. Any other comments or questions from the public? 00:22:54
Thank you. My name is Daria Evans and I live in the Villas. 00:23:04
Here in Vineyard I just also want to thank everybody. 00:23:09
Well, Amber and and Christy for being the head of our. 00:23:13
The last town hall meeting, it was really great. I really appreciate it and we had a great turnout. Like Randy said, a lot of 00:23:18
great things were said and it was a good thing. 00:23:23
I also want to thank Lieutenant Rockwell and his. 00:23:29
Troopers, however you want to call them for patrolling. Vineyard Loop Rd. Whoa. 00:23:33
That's great. 00:23:38
Thank you very much this speech. 00:23:39
The speeding is going down, so keep up that. Great work. Thank you. 00:23:42
Also, I want to thank public works. 00:23:46
Back there. 00:23:49
For all that you've been doing. 00:23:50
I've been riding my bike lately and I've noticed. 00:23:53
On the east side of Grove Park, the wetlands, you've trimmed the trees and cleared out the brush. 00:23:56
Wow. 00:24:02
It's really looks good. Thank you and also riding my bike up. 00:24:02
To. 00:24:07
Just passed in your beach. 00:24:09
Have you been clearing out those phragmites in there? 00:24:11
Otherwise. 00:24:16
Yeah, it looks great. So thank you. Thank you. It's been wonderful. 00:24:17
The garden areas are looking great. 00:24:21
I get to help Wendy with that every once in awhile. Check on the port with her. 00:24:24
I just really am grateful to be able to ride my bike along the Lake Trail and see all the water in Utah Lake. 00:24:30
It's really beautiful. 00:24:37
And I took a picture to send to my sister-in-law. She walked it with me a few times while she's out here. 00:24:39
The water in the low areas is really close, it is so cool looking. 00:24:46
I really like that. 00:24:50
And then I just have one more comment. 00:24:52
Recently on social media, there's been. 00:24:55
Love to talk about the lack of parking. 00:24:58
At venues and we had a neighbor just tell us that they tried to. 00:25:01
Go into the yard and it was hard to find parking. 00:25:06
So I just hope that our new developers on the North End are taking note. 00:25:10
Of what's going on about the lack of parking at the venues, I know that some more is coming. 00:25:15
But when you have less parking, you have to have less revenue. And I just want to make that comment. So thank you very much. I'm 00:25:21
glad you brought that up. I actually want to talk about it for a second. I think there's a few things that that you should know 00:25:26
and maybe you can share with your neighbor. 00:25:30
There is more coming. 00:25:36
Not all of the areas that we'll be expanding have additional units or stores coming. Some of it is just parking and what it is, is 00:25:38
it phases in its growth comes our planning team actually looks up some of the numbers so that we could see. 00:25:44
Who is coming into the area and patrolling the area on most days it's around 4000 number. Do you want to talk about that Morgan, 00:25:51
so that we can understand a little bit better? 00:25:56
What we did is we pull all the Fridays, which are kind of your your Friday and Saturdays are the peak. And I think it was just 00:26:03
this last week and you can provide some of the numbers, but it was we had, I think there was like 3 blockbusters that that came 00:26:08
out and so there was a big spike. 00:26:13
Yeah, the the average, the mayor was right. The average for most weekdays and even the weekend is, is around 4500 people visiting 00:26:19
that yard area a day. And yeah, this last weekend with all these movies that came out and you know topped off, that's there now 00:26:26
and more restaurants come online and there there were well over 9000. 00:26:32
So it's not well beyond that. It's average youth. 00:26:39
But we're we're continually working with developers to bring on more parking as more things get built out. 00:26:42
And and yeah, so I think the key is that it was a. 00:26:48
It's rare. We don't, we're not consistently hitting that mark where people can't park there. But because of these numbers that 00:26:52
we're able to present, we're able to say, hey, this new phase needs to start opening up and talk about additional parking 00:26:58
commands. So that's a really good conversation that's happening I think with the downtown. 00:27:04
One of the things that I don't think we talk about all the time because once you pass something, you don't keep bringing it up, 00:27:10
but I think we should. And Vineyard has invested like $200 million in parking infrastructure for the downtown. And what they're 00:27:15
doing with the parking is that up to every time new units come into the area to a certain amount, what they'll do is they will re 00:27:20
examine the parking because it's. 00:27:25
It's so much area of build out and we're not exactly sure what makes parking satisfactory to the public and so we're going to keep 00:27:31
reviewing it and what they'll do is they'll have third party. 00:27:36
And engineers come. 00:27:42
And I think it's three, is that right, Morgan? Three different parties or three groups or we'll review three teams and they'll 00:27:44
come and they'll review it? 00:27:48
Yeah, so I how does this? I'd have to look up the exact quote, but we propose. 00:27:52
Someone, and then if if we agree, then we can move forward. But if they propose someone and we propose someone and we we don't, we 00:27:58
don't agree with each other, then we get another additional. 00:28:03
Yeah, they would do with them so, so, so it's it's set up so that you like you kind of ensure you're if someone is very unbiased. 00:28:08
So what they'll do is they'll review the parking and make sure that. 00:28:13
We don't have a lack of parking. I think also what's a really interesting thing is our goal is to have people to be able to drive 00:28:18
to where they're going to and to be able to make sure that there's parking at each of the developments. That's properly done and 00:28:23
we want. 00:28:29
Not too much parking where we have a sea of parking that's kind of a dead zone like you see in the Provo Mall area where there's a 00:28:34
really expensive parking lot that's not used. And we're not able to invite economic development, but one where we don't have 00:28:40
patrons that are coming in and saying we can't actually park there. And so how do we go and have a good time at these entities. 00:28:45
And so we want both of those opportunities to happen. And so we're going to keep reviewing it, which is a new concept and it's 00:28:51
really exciting. Another thing is. 00:28:57
Because Vineyard recently planned for a network, so Vineyard used to have 3 exits in the city. 00:29:02
And there were very little Rd. entrances and exits. But now recently Vineyard has tried to renegotiate or negotiate. 00:29:09
Has negotiated or is negotiating. 00:29:17
Um areas that were shut down, making a grid network of roads. 00:29:19
And Vineyard, so there's going to be so many opportunities not just for the people that live in Vineyard, but for access to these 00:29:24
companies like Huntsman Cancer Institute or the downtown areas. So each of those areas we're going to combine and make sure that 00:29:28
there's parking at those entrances. 00:29:33
So I think that's going to be a comfortable thing where we. 00:29:38
We. 00:29:42
We won't ever get it right, but we'll keep trying and we'll we'll create flexibility that allows us to fix the areas where we 00:29:43
fail. And if I can just point something out to what with the forge development that hasn't been developed what what, what we did 00:29:47
early on and we had them build. 00:29:52
The street, like the the streets that have parking built into them. 00:29:57
And so I I've kind of pointed that out to quite a few people and I I think people are trying to catch on that that's actually 00:30:02
pretty good overflow. And it's not, it's not a tremendous walk. You might be, you know, 5 to 10 minutes at the most if you're on 00:30:06
the furthest spot. 00:30:10
But yeah, your priority parking in in the yard definitely gets absorbed and they'll peak hours, but there is a lot of parking 00:30:14
that's provide providing more on the on the periphery. So if you're willing to drive a little bit, you can typically find parking, 00:30:18
yeah. 00:30:23
Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for your comment. OK. Any other comments from the public? 00:30:27
My name is Karen Cornelius. I'm in the Midwest as well. 00:30:44
And just piggybacking on what Daria had to say. 00:30:48
The yard is wonderful. There is so much that they are to that's offered to us. 00:30:51
But unfortunately we gave up going several months ago because we could never find a place to park. 00:30:57
And so I read where there's going to be parking added, which is exciting. 00:31:02
But I want to know who's paying for that because now the developer is gone. 00:31:07
Right. 00:31:12
That the developers paying for the developers still actively they're developing the site? Are they paying for the parking? 00:31:13
I think I I'm not sure which parking you're referring to, but Morgan, could you? 00:31:20
Give some I'm talking about the entire yard because yeah, there's a problem there. Yeah, any parking that's being added there is 00:31:24
is being. 00:31:29
It is from the developer and I I think something that people might be confusing a little bit is Edgewater Townhomes which is just 00:31:34
South of there the the the developer. So ex development they broke off a pretty large chunk to allow those folks to be able to to 00:31:42
to expand parking because to pay for it out of their HOA which is a very sad thing to have to have happen. 00:31:51
I think that that's. 00:32:00
That's retrofitting when we need to plan for these things beforehand. 00:32:02
If my HOA came to me and assessed me. 00:32:07
For additional parking, I wouldn't be a happy camper and I don't think that those people there can afford to add that much to 00:32:10
their HOA either. So I think there's a huge responsibility to the people that sit behind this podium to make sure we do it right 00:32:15
the first time. 00:32:21
But we don't have to continually come back. 00:32:26
And come back and come back. 00:32:29
And let's face it, we are not a walking city. 00:32:31
There are some that might be. 00:32:35
But I would say we are not a walking city. 00:32:37
And I don't want to be a 15 minute city here. I've been here, that's not why I moved here. 00:32:40
So I appreciate the great things that you've brought in. 00:32:45
But we can't do a halfway job. We have to go 100% and we have to plan. 00:32:49
You know what you're planning on coming into this community. You know how many people. 00:32:54
You are going to add, so let's do it right the first time. Let's not retrofit and retrofit and retrofit. That makes no sense. 00:32:59
So that's why I have to say thank you. Did you say your name is Karen? Yes. 00:33:07
Karen, I I want to take the time to respond to you because I think you're right. I think that you're right that when you plan a 00:33:12
development you really have to make sure that you have enough parking and you have to consider. 00:33:17
What that's going to look like in the future. 00:33:24
I do think that there are moments in time. For instance, we went through a huge growth phase. 00:33:26
Where we didn't know we were gonna grow at 10,000% and the university didn't know, didn't know that they were gonna grow just as 00:33:31
rapidly. They took on a ton of students that nobody was really anticipating at the time. So I think the council that put in the 00:33:36
Edge townhomes. 00:33:41
And kind of plan that parking out, we're anticipating that the people that moved there weren't going to rent out to as many people 00:33:46
as they. 00:33:50
Are now doing. But the question was, does the HOA and the HOA had asked themselves this, Does the HOA go in and enforce their 00:33:54
CCNR's and hold their people accountable, which they could or do they allow for the affordable housing market and allow people to 00:34:01
rent out and afford their complexes. And they really consider this because they have all of the what is it called the authority 00:34:07
within their own body because they're outside of the city to control those efforts. We talked to them about it. We made some 00:34:13
exceptions to say OK. 00:34:19
Looks like you need some exceptions and green space. You need to come into compliance a couple places and and we spoke to them 00:34:25
about their authority and they really felt like this was something that the people that owned the properties wanted to do. And so 00:34:30
they made a choice. Now as a city, what we said is, well there's a few opportunities for you. There's a Medical Center that 00:34:35
doesn't use their parking at night. So what we did was we went and talked to them and said let's go ahead and see if you can have 00:34:40
some shared parking. 00:34:45
But one of the issues that they face as an HOA is that some of those people aren't getting up at, you know, seven o'clock 8:00 in 00:34:51
the morning. And and So what we did was say, well, there's always opportunity if you want to. 00:34:57
Keep doing what you're doing and choose to go outside of your CC and R's and kind of house people in a different way that you 00:35:03
agreed to. 00:35:07
And to buy additional area because it's your property, it's your opportunity to kind of choose how you want to regulate it. And So 00:35:11
what we did as a city. 00:35:16
As we said, how can we support you in making and facilitating some relationships with some of the nearby developers and say, hey, 00:35:22
these people are looking at land acquisition and they would like to buy it now. Their HOA all unanimously voted for this. 00:35:29
They thought we wouldn't be supportive by zoning and allowing them to do parking. But I think what we recognize as a city is even 00:35:36
though we want to plan for it, there are some things that we're not going to be able to plan for. 00:35:40
And even though we're asking for people to keep their agreements, sometimes they're going to say, hey, we would like to do 00:35:45
something different and I think we came up with a pretty good. 00:35:50
And compromise at this moment. 00:35:55
And and right now I'm, I think they're happy with it from the last meetings that you guys were at. Is that right? Yeah. And just 00:35:57
point out to that, that development is different than a lot it's it's a highly investor owned development. So these are people who 00:36:02
profit by having lots of people that that they rent to. And so I guess my concern is so they they they definitely need needed the 00:36:07
parking. OK Yeah. 00:36:12
This city is in such close proximity and that that development particularly to the university. 00:36:18
So it seems to me like the. 00:36:25
Before, planning just wasn't there. You've got to know that that's gonna be filled with students. That makes sense because they're 00:36:27
close to the university. 00:36:32
And. 00:36:36
I don't know any parent. 00:36:37
That sends a child to college today without a car. 00:36:39
And that's reality. And that's the reality that we are living in. 00:36:42
And so I still feel like there needs to be. 00:36:46
Some greater fourth thought and advanced thinking when we put these. 00:36:49
These developments together. 00:36:54
And the developers. 00:36:56
Need to. 00:36:58
Be a little more giving there. I have sat in on many of the meetings with the Forge and the parking really upsets them. 00:37:00
But the citizens that I've heard come to these meetings. 00:37:07
Are not, are not bowing down on that. They want the parking there. 00:37:10
We cannot live in a nightmare where we can never find a place. 00:37:15
Yeah. And I think you're always going to find that. 00:37:18
With CC and R's and HOA, that's how they're choosing to enforce them. And we agree. And the city, our first thing is always to 00:37:21
push back on HOA's and say you have to. 00:37:26
You have to adhere to the agreements that you came to the city with because we plan for the parking that you needed now, not 00:37:32
every. 00:37:36
Not every area is planned perfectly and This is why even in the downtown we're saying we're going to have to reassess and reassess 00:37:40
and we're going to plan for the most parking possible. But I think you're right in that sense. 00:37:44
A quick note on walkability. 00:37:50
I think I've been watching some posts on walkability and I just want to make a comment and council, I hope you don't mind that I'm 00:37:52
taking the time. I think this is essential for all of us as we're planning. We have a lot of people come in. 00:37:57
And they request things like mid block crossings, that's where you're crossing in the middle of the street. 00:38:02
We have people coming in and asking for accessibility on the corners where we're putting. 00:38:08
More pedestrian walkways. 00:38:14
We have people coming in and asking for hawk lights. 00:38:16
Traffic signals at 4th N 600 and this, this, these requests that people come in. 00:38:20
Is walkability. 00:38:29
Down at Sleepy Ridge, where I live, there's not a whole lot of sidewalks on all sides of the roads. We have a lot of parents come 00:38:30
in and ask. 00:38:33
For sidewalks and connectivity, this is what you call walkability. Now there are Co opted terms. 00:38:37
Of walkability and there are Co opted terms of 15 minute cities where people are constraining people and stopping parking and 00:38:42
doing things to take away options from citizens. And I can tell you that that is definitely not something that we're doing here in 00:38:48
Vineyard. Well that's what came out in the article talking about your test city though I saw that that somebody posted that that 00:38:55
was their interpretation of the ULI where they said hey this is what we're doing and we can't really control the news but you can 00:39:01
know that when you come here. 00:39:07
We provide options. We provide the connectivity that the residents are asking for. We are all about making sure that we're putting 00:39:13
in efficiencies for the people and the homeowners that live here to get to their amenities. And so if you're ever seeing something 00:39:18
where you feel like you're being constrained. 00:39:23
Or you feel like we're not open to parking or where you feel like we're not doing something like that. 00:39:29
Come into the city right away and have a conversation because right now all we are doing is planning in a way that's saying we 00:39:35
hear you on 600 N. 00:39:40
And we see you on a traffic signal and we hear you and we realize you need a mid block crossing on center and we recognize that. 00:39:45
At the same time we're spending $16,000,000 to put in Vineyard Connector, which is the road that goes through our community. We 00:39:51
recognize that people are taking their bikes to the front runner and I think that's a little bit different than what some 00:39:56
communities are planning and we're fortunate to live in the city that we have and have representatives that are not constraining 00:40:02
but. 00:40:08
But providing opportunities because they live in America, you know, so are we going to continue to? 00:40:14
Develop our city as a walkable city. Well, I'm curious how many of you walked through tonight. No, I'm. I'm grateful that you're 00:40:21
you're saying this and I'm going to I'm going to cut our conversation off between us. But let's continue it after this meeting so 00:40:27
we can get business done. But I'll I'll explain to you what I'm trying to say. One more in a in a different way maybe. 00:40:34
People come and they say that we're creating a walkable community and the fear. 00:40:41
With walkability is that we're taking away parking. 00:40:46
And we are stopping road construction and we're not thinking about the people that drive. 00:40:49
But. 00:40:55
The walkability that is being executed and done and vineyard. 00:40:56
Is not constraining people. We are not. 00:40:59
We are not. 00:41:02
Getting rid of parking to get people out of their cars. 00:41:03
We have spent more money on infrastructure and roads than anything else. 00:41:06
And so no, we are not designing A walkable community in the way that it's being described in the public today. Now, do we do mid 00:41:11
block crossings? 00:41:16
Are we offering better pedestrian access? 00:41:20
Are we creating trails to our parks? 00:41:23
Yes, and all of the things that simultaneously people come and ask for. I think every city should be doing things that. 00:41:25
Allow people who are paying taxes access to their amenities. So I would say that, but we can continue this afterwards. One last 00:41:32
question, how far off is our grocery store? 00:41:36
I don't know, Morgan, do you know where the grocer is? That's landing in the downtown right now? 00:41:42
As far as timeline? 00:41:49
Yeah, you might have a little, yeah, we're we're we're site planning out right now. 00:41:51
Still working on that. Developers should have an update for us in two weeks at our next meeting. Ohh, OK, so we'll have a good 00:41:55
evening. 00:41:58
I don't know. Have they announced we don't have a name yet now. 00:42:01
No. 00:42:04
Hopefully in two weeks. 00:42:05
OK. Any other comments for the public? 00:42:07
From the public. 00:42:10
I'm on. I'm on. 00:42:13
I my name is Tyler Hilton. I actually live in the Edgewater development that you guys talked about, so I thought it'd be relevant 00:42:17
to come up. Thank you. 00:42:21
Number one. 00:42:25
I think the great location for the grocery store, a different grocery store, would be on Mill Rd. where the empty lot is that 00:42:26
we're talking about tonight. 00:42:29
I don't know if they wanna put one there but. 00:42:33
Just a suggestion. 00:42:35
As far as the time too, they're very excited about it. Also the parking situation, so. 00:42:39
I just bought a house, probably well town home, about two months ago with my wife is our first place. 00:42:45
Very excited. 00:42:52
We looked at some places in Sleepy Ridge area, We looked at some places in Orem. 00:42:54
Closer to our parents, we looked at a whole bunch of places. 00:42:59
And my left eye kind of annoyed at me because I kept on saying I don't want to have to drive. 00:43:02
To. 00:43:06
Forward your wherever I want to go to because it's a pain in the **** to find parking and I don't want to get in Fender Bender and 00:43:07
I. 00:43:10
Personally, I'd prefer walking or biking to driving. 00:43:14
Umm. 00:43:17
No problem with anyone that wants to have. 00:43:19
To drive or have sufficient parking. But the more you make it walkable for me, the less I will use my car and clog up your parking 00:43:21
lot. 00:43:25
Um. 00:43:29
Another thing we do now that we live there, we walk to the forge development, kind of where the ice cream shop and the pizza place 00:43:32
is. We went to the rotating sushi place with some of my friends the other day. 00:43:37
And we considered taking our car the whole, you know, half mile there, because it sucks to walk past all this. 00:43:43
Huge parking for top golf. 00:43:51
When sometimes it's full because it's on our that a lot of the times it's not full. It's really frustrating to. 00:43:54
I'm a super white guy and I get a sunburn really easy. I have to get all this oily freaking sunscreen on me so I can walk the 15 00:44:00
minutes it is. 00:44:04
To get to a sushi place. 00:44:09
Because there's no trees there, nothing like that because of how much was taken out for parking. 00:44:11
So I. 00:44:18
I'm totally in support of having more of the mid St. crossings and places like that trying to make it. 00:44:20
Not so that you have a problem getting there with the car, because obviously there are times when you want to have a car and there 00:44:25
are people that prefer cars, but so that I'm not putting myself in danger or riding a bike. 00:44:30
Or walking and in the future. 00:44:35
If we have a train, take a train. I want to have the option. I don't want to be forced into taking a car. Oregon, choosing between 00:44:38
my life. I don't know if you know. 00:44:42
A Shawn Bradley, he the seven foot six NBA player. He's paralyzed from the neck down now because in Saint George he's riding his 00:44:46
bike. 00:44:50
On an area that did not have infrastructure for bikes and he got hit by a car and now it's paralyzed from neck down. So real 00:44:55
people get hurt when you. 00:45:00
Do not build for biking. People. Don't get hurt when you build board for cars, necessarily, but when you leave out the biking and 00:45:06
The Walking and transit options, people do get. 00:45:10
Really severely hurt, so thank you. 00:45:16
Thank you. Thanks for your comment. 00:45:18
Alright, any other comments? Yep. And Randy, you can always come up as well. 00:45:20
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. I live in the preserve as a former the very poor college student who lived most of his college 00:45:27
life. 00:45:31
Without a car, I just want to say that people who are economizing their living and choosing to live with roommates are probably 00:45:35
the most likely to be convinced that maybe they don't need to take a car everywhere. I I think from personal experience. 00:45:41
Traverse City. 00:45:48
The house that I rented with too many people at one point wanted to enforce lower occupancy rate there, or wanted to enforce the 00:45:49
property owner to build more parking. Neither of those things would have really helped me at all living in there. What would have 00:45:55
really helped me is just having a protected bike thing so I could get the mile to campus, which they still haven't done in their 00:46:01
city and I feel like our city can be better. 00:46:07
The second. 00:46:15
Comment is with the yard development. It looks like on a map that most people don't have a great number, but most people in miners 00:46:16
live within a mile. 00:46:19
Of the yard, it definitely. 00:46:23
Close to 100% of people live within 2 miles of the yard. It find that people want to drive one to two miles at a time. 00:46:26
That's totally acceptable. 00:46:33
What I feel like isn't acceptable is having that be the only option and really right now for my family is like a very indirect 00:46:35
route that we take both now protected bike lane which is great, but then it kind of the decision of having to either travel along 00:46:42
the road or Cross Mill Rd. which is very uncomfortable especially with my kids. Thank you. Thank you. 00:46:49
Again, it's Randy Gray. I just want to make one comment. 00:47:01
15 years ago The largest developer in eastern Maricopa County, Joe Woods. 00:47:06
Made the observation. 00:47:12
That parking garages are expensive, but sometimes they have to be imposed, and at that point in time he quoted $10,000 per stall. 00:47:14
So yes, they are expensive, but my thought my sense is. 00:47:25
If we can build straight up for residents, can we not consider maybe it is being considered, Bill? 00:47:30
A parking garage, especially in high areas. So I just wanted to make, I hadn't heard that discussed. Yeah, that's great. And 00:47:37
that's actually some of the $200 million that's being invested in the downtown is. 00:47:43
Vertical parking. OK. Thank you. Yeah. 00:47:49
OK. Any other comments? 00:47:54
No. Alright then we'll go ahead and close the public comment and move on to Mayor and council member reports piece. 00:47:56
Amber. 00:48:02
Marty. Nothing, Christy. 00:48:03
Yes, Mayor, I just wanted to say that we are going to be having our first Arts Commission meeting on August 8th, which is also 00:48:05
coincidentally the same night as that high school district meeting. So but those meetings will start happening on the second 00:48:11
Tuesdays of the month. 00:48:16
At 6:00 PM in this very room so any residents that. 00:48:22
Feel so inclined to come to this meetings when they're happening and we're excited to get started on. 00:48:26
Some of our core projects that we've we've got for our Commission. 00:48:31
Also um. 00:48:36
For residents that don't know we we have several $1,000,000 that we got in grant funds. 00:48:39
From the county to start working on our shoreline. 00:48:44
And I know we've talked a lot. We talk a lot about the downtown and how we have this amazing promenade that goes to our beach. 00:48:47
Well, we'll have to send it to the beach. Ohh. It's not like super usable right now. So that area right there by the downtown is 00:48:53
where we're gonna be focusing that grant money and we've been working hard to get a plan together on. 00:49:00
The very, very, very first phase of that, a lot of you have probably seen some of the. 00:49:07
Get deeper than we would with a grubbing machine. And of course we have a grubbing machine as well. We can go in and pull some of 00:49:42
that stuff out, but that will be really fun for our residents to go see. And those goats will have a you won't see the fence that 00:49:46
has a. 00:49:51
What do you call it? 00:49:55
Like a a invisible fence line that they do and and to move around they they help those goats move around. But hopefully in the 00:49:56
next couple of weeks we'll start seeing that in that area and take your kids over. That'll be fun to watch and it's amazing. You 00:50:02
know I lived in the Pacific Northwest for a time and goats were fantastic. People would would would pay to have them come and 00:50:08
either BlackBerry bushes and it's a really efficient way to. 00:50:13
To clean out. 00:50:19
Kind of those areas I felt like Mary, you were wanting to add something, but I'm like, ohh, I was just. 00:50:21
Going to say that we've been working on it for a while. So it's a start. It's exciting to have it happen as we've been working 00:50:26
with the state, but also you'll be grabbing it and then replacing it with native plants so that we're hoping to not see them come 00:50:32
back, correct, Yes, and the areas that we that would be pertinent, but we're actually going to start bringing in some usable sand 00:50:37
that you can play in, in that area as well. 00:50:43
So our hope is that it will quickly become an area that you can use. 00:50:49
Sooner and I have to wait till. 00:50:54
You know. 00:50:56
Ohh super amazing stuff comes in but just make it make it a fun place soon so. 00:50:57
Anyway, I hope that's something you guys will look forward to seeing over the next couple of months. 00:51:02
And. 00:51:08
Before next council there is going to be a community event where we are going to be cleaning up the park and then watching a movie 00:51:09
in the park right after It's on August 7th. 00:51:14
And not forgive me, I don't remember what time. 00:51:19
But. 00:51:22
Be watching for our newsletter and our social media will be advertising. 00:51:23
When that's gonna happen? Ohh, hold on. I'll have it at 7:30 on August 7th at Vineyard Grove Park. 00:51:28
That's great. And also Christy, the steering committee that some of the residents that helped plan that first phase, they were 00:51:33
just asking me about it and are really excited about the involvement. And then some of our staff and council are also working with 00:51:39
the Commission and with the tourism committee to talk about the second phase already. So we'll see that coming forward soon as 00:51:45
well. Ezra. 00:51:50
Yes, the partial closure at Main Street and 800 N that had to be delayed. We had some issues with. 00:51:59
A contractor. So they will let us know when they'll be back to that area, but they've begun work on different areas. So it'll be 00:52:04
probably a number of weeks before we see anything, but we'll make sure that all gets noticed on the road signs and then on our 00:52:09
website as well. 00:52:13
We've had some high winds, so this is a good reminder to just have everybody bring in your trash cans after your trash is 00:52:19
collected on Wednesdays, just bring those in sooner than later. That'll help. 00:52:24
Make sure they don't blow over to your neighbor's house or. 00:52:29
Or way down the road. We've had a few cases of that, so just reminding everybody to make sure to bring those in as timely as 00:52:31
possible. 00:52:34
That's 600 N mid block crossing. 00:52:38
That concept has been completed and it's been sent out for pricing. So we'll have some pricing options there. So that project's 00:52:41
going along quite well. 00:52:44
And then stop signs and red curves continue to be installed in various neighborhoods we've notified. 00:52:48
There's a few trees that are blocking some of the stop signs and the new installed one some of the existing ones. We've notified 00:52:55
every resident that's near those trees to provide them options to replace those trees onto their property. 00:53:00
Or we can move those trees as well. So there's a number on each of those door hangers. If you live in front of a tree that's 00:53:06
blocking a stop sign, you have a couple weeks to get in touch with Public Works, so we can look at replacement options for those. 00:53:12
That's great. Thank you. And thank you for your work on getting things cleaned up for the red. 00:53:18
Curbing that went through. I know a lot of people were looking to see the red curbing to go and the spots that were not allowed to 00:53:24
park on in the city. And there were some things that some residents had asked for accommodations or just errors that were needing 00:53:28
to be fixed from the person that came in and did it. And you guys were so responsive and fast at taking care of that. So we really 00:53:33
appreciate it. 00:53:38
Also, Council, for your information, just remember that in the next few weeks to schedule time with Ezra. 00:53:43
And finance and. 00:53:49
Get more informed and discuss more of your ideas and opinions about the fire station. As you know, we're going through a fire 00:53:52
station study and we need to start narrowing in our discussion on that, so. 00:53:58
OK, that takes us to our consent items. I just need a motion to approve. 00:54:05
So moved. 00:54:11
A first by Marty. 00:54:12
And a second second by Christie on favor ohh roll call tice. 00:54:14
Amber, Marty. Hi, Christy. All right. 00:54:21
Appointments. We are having our first Arts Commission. Like you heard, we have one appointment. Kevin. Kevin, I can't say your 00:54:26
last name. 00:54:30
I looked it up. 00:54:35
And I even tried to say it after you called me, so I'm going to read it. 00:54:37
Seka. 00:54:41
QUAPTEWA. 00:54:43
Do you think you can say it, Maria? 00:54:48
All right. 00:54:50
Well, I would just like a motion to support that appointment from the Council. 00:54:51
So moved. 00:54:58
Thank you Amber. And a second. 00:54:59
Second, second by ties. All in favor. Aye. Alright, Christy, you can start your Commission. Great. 00:55:02
Alright, did you figure out how to fix it? I think it's super cold. 00:55:08
Next. 00:55:16
No. OK, anybody that one second try afterwards we're gonna. 00:55:18
Work on that. Alright, that moves us to our public hearing. What we're going to do is we're going to go into a motion to go into a 00:55:23
public hearing. We're going to hear from our presenter, we'll take public comments, we'll close the public hearing, the council 00:55:27
will speak and then we will move. 00:55:32
Forward so. 00:55:37
We'll go to a. 00:55:39
Thank you. And this is for the zoning text amendment, Ordinance 20/23/26 second, second by member all in favor, aye, we are now in 00:55:41
a public hearing and our planner cash county Will. 00:55:46
A proposed A zoning code amendment. 00:55:52
Great. Thank you, City Council. And Mayor, I should have a presentation here in just one second. 00:55:55
Alright. 00:56:08
Hold. 00:56:11
So the quick shares taking its time here. 00:56:22
That's OK. Do you want to start talking about it or? Yeah, so last week at Planning Commission, they heard a presentation. 00:56:28
For the zoning text amendment regarding hotel and motel parking use. 00:56:35
Umm. 00:56:39
It's easy if I can display it. Essentially the the Applicant X development, they own the property along the Gru. 00:56:41
And they are hoping to put in a hotel along one of those lots there. 00:56:48
And so they proposed this. 00:56:53
Zoning text amendment that would strike out their requirement for 10 minimum spaces for visitor parking and for a hotel use. 00:56:55
Try plugging it on this side. 00:57:03
Really makes it a lot more clear if you can see the language. 00:57:06
Um, but essentially our code. I can read that off. It requires. 00:57:08
1. 00:57:13
Parking space per room, plus one space per 100 square feet of restaurant and bar serving area. 00:57:14
Plus one space per 100 square feet of outdoor serving area. 00:57:19
10 minimum spaces for visitors parking. 00:57:23
Plus one space for 200. 00:57:26
Square feet of meeting floor area, so the proposed zoning text amendment would strike out. 00:57:27
The. 00:57:32
On 10 minimum spaces for visitor parking, there we go. 00:57:34
So now everybody can sit here. 00:57:38
So that is the proposed language. 00:57:42
It is the applicant initiated. The city did not initiate. It is initiated by its development. 00:57:45
And just a few notes on the next slide, I will be going over the benchmarking. So what we did is we just studied the surrounding 00:57:50
cities, looked at their code and their requirements for hotel or motel use. 00:57:54
But the other thing I did wanna throw out there in in our research is we found the National. 00:58:00
Hotel occupancy rate of around 60 to 65%. 00:58:05
So here's that benchmarking sheet. 00:58:10
I can. 00:58:14
Maybe zoom? 00:58:14
And. 00:58:16
What cities did you examine? So this list has Orem, Pleasant Grove, Lehigh, Spanish Fork, American Fork, Salt Lake City, South 00:58:17
Salt Lake, Draper, Sandy, Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs, and Springville. 00:58:23
As a brief summary, we are, as a city a bit more strict with that one requirement of of the 10 extra parking stalls most cities. 00:58:29
It is one parking stall per room. 00:58:37
And then they will have that additional language if there's meeting space, if there's restaurant, if there's bar space, they'll 00:58:39
have that language in there. 00:58:42
There's a few like Lehigh is 1 stall per room, plus one employee per that's working on each shift, and then Springville is 1 00:58:46
stopper room plus two additional stalls. 00:58:51
And. 00:58:57
But for the most part, they were all one stall per room. 00:58:58
With Lehigh in Springdale's additional Were they above our parking? 00:59:04
I It just depends if you know if they had. 00:59:08
15 employees on site at the time they would. 00:59:12
Technically be above it, but most hotels don't have 15 employees at one time working. 00:59:15
And then Springville, it's just one stop per room plus two additional. So they would be below what our requirement is. 00:59:19
I could not find their code. 00:59:27
And I did try to call them and they did not answer. 00:59:29
OK. 00:59:32
Continue. 00:59:33
Ohh, Carla, What's the developer might have that information? 00:59:35
So I started quite a while looking for it as well in Provo and Carla Montero with development and so the I I don't have the exact 00:59:42
text in front of me, it was basically it was. 00:59:47
To be decided based on the use and the location as determined by the economic development or the planning team. That was my 00:59:52
understanding. Ohh OK, so it's it's her. Her. 00:59:58
And time about it exactly. OK, yeah, I'm curious about. 01:00:05
Have a Convention Center right. 01:00:10
Right. 01:00:11
Yeah. And this language, it would not change any of the requirements for restaurants or meeting space. So if I, you know, if a big 01:00:12
hotel with a giant meeting space were to come in, they would still be held that those standards of our code. 01:00:17
Um, it's just those 10 parking stalls that we're talking about tonight. 01:00:23
So. 01:00:27
On this side here, I just have two proposed motions. To actually I have recommended it would be to motion to approve Ordinance 01:00:28
2023-27 or to deny it. 01:00:34
As well as just the notion that the Planning Commission did recommend approval of this ordinance last week. So unanimous. 01:00:40
Ohh, yes it was. 01:00:47
Was there any comments or questions for us to take into consideration from the planning body, So they they did ask about that 01:00:50
occupancy rate. And so that's what we did is we just went and researched that and talked to the developer about that, about their 01:00:56
user and they kind of agreed their user doesn't want 100% occupancy rate in a hotel that creates a lot of issues. 01:01:02
And so that does free up a lot of parking. 01:01:08
So yeah. 01:01:12
Come on up. You also clarify, is this going for the whole city? It would be citywide, correct? But except for it would exclude the 01:01:14
Yeah, the downtown does have its own zoning code. 01:01:20
So can we put in a stipulation that we just want for the site? 01:01:25
If we want to do that, we could put it like language into the Gru that we could. You know, the DRM used hotel parking code would 01:01:29
follow this statute rather than citywide. We can't isolate it through the parcel. 01:01:35
I don't think the parcel has been determined yet. 01:01:42
You might be able to under the Gru code or you could call out a specific parcel for hotel. It is the only option typically for 01:01:44
making site specific. 01:01:49
Land use decisions would be through a development agreement. 01:01:54
So you could do it that way if you wanted. 01:01:57
I think the options available to you with the general text amendment to your ordinance would be. 01:02:00
Zone specific change. OK. Thank you. 01:02:06
And GR Gru is a district that does have development standards already in it and so it wouldn't be unheard of for us to add like a 01:02:11
hotel section if if you wanted to go that route I believe though and this would be a question for Jamie if that's her out. 01:02:18
Yeah, because it's like a. 01:02:26
Different section of the code would we need to do a every notice and. 01:02:27
Go back through Planning Commission, City Council. 01:02:32
And then just so we kind of understand like the full no, I think you're OK because where you're making a general change, you're 01:02:39
noticing is. 01:02:42
General. If it were site specific, then you're noticing it's just to the surrounding properties, right? 01:02:45
So you're probably OK to to. 01:02:51
That you can massage it and make changes during the ordinance process. OK, great. 01:02:53
Thanks. I can turn the time over to Carla with the developer. 01:02:59
Questions. 01:03:03
Um, sorry. 01:03:05
So I mean we understand that you're potentially wanting to restrict that. We do propose that it, it makes sense for the overall 01:03:08
code for a couple of reasons. We did speak, I did speak directly yesterday to the hotel user that we are negotiating with. It's 01:03:14
it's a reputable hotel chain. 01:03:20
And they said that for them specifically across the board like they've never generally exceed 83% occupancy and then out of that 01:03:27
83%. 01:03:31
About 80% of that is the parking that they require and so the nationwide. 01:03:37
They never need nor want more than a one to one ratio and I think. 01:03:44
Obviously they can't speak for all of the hotel chains out there, but it's a very common standard to be 1 to 1 and so we would 01:03:51
like to see that we think it's a a sensible code to to be in place and then your city and we would encourage that to to be blanket 01:03:56
if possible. 01:04:02
However, you know we're open to further discussions if if that, if that's necessary. So if you have any questions for me, yes, 01:04:09
I've, I've got some. 01:04:13
Doubts about doing this citywide, especially tonight. I had a question for you. Do you want to reserve this for the council 01:04:17
discussion on what the public speaker do you want to do it now for the public to listen to you? No, I'm OK to do it now. One of my 01:04:22
main concerns is. 01:04:27
I'm not sure. 01:04:33
It's seems like you guys really want to make this. 01:04:34
Why? 01:04:37
While sleeping thing but one of my. 01:04:39
Concerns. It sounds like this is probably gonna be a smaller boutique type hotel. I don't know what it is and they're like we 01:04:41
don't need more parking, but. 01:04:45
There are lots of different kinds of hotels. You have a lot of hotels. People go there just for the restaurant. I can think of the 01:04:49
Marriott and Provo has a restaurant that people just go to, like the Hotel Monaco and Salt Lake, right? 01:04:55
I never actually had to stay in the hotel, but let people go there just for the restaurant, right? Plus, you have a good event 01:05:00
space in those. So a lot of people do weddings and in hotels, right? And a lot of people don't actually stay in that hotel. And so 01:05:06
a hotel often is an event venue. And so to make that determination on a smaller hotel, it's like we don't. And I think that's a 01:05:12
fair assessment if. 01:05:18
Coming in and I think that's a that's a fair concern. If you look at the wording of the the text amendment, we're not taking out 01:05:26
any of the additional parking requirements for in in the case of hotels that have restaurants, bar areas, event centers, meeting 01:05:33
rooms anything like that that requires additional parking to meet the needs of those. And that's that language is pretty, it's 01:05:41
fairly standard and some of the other couple other cities that have that same kind of language to account for that so. 01:05:48
I do feel like that is addressed. 01:05:56
OK. Any questions from the public? 01:06:01
Come on up to the microphone. State your name, where you're from, and your color. 01:06:05
My name is David Pierce. I live in the Cascade area and I I just have two questions. 01:06:13
About. 01:06:19
The research and the national average for occupancy rates in hotel. 01:06:20
Was the research done on what? 01:06:26
The occupancy rate tends to be on the Wasatch Front area. 01:06:28
And. 01:06:34
There. 01:06:35
As. 01:06:36
As an average And what's the seasonable? 01:06:37
Occupancy rate. 01:06:40
Those are my 2 questions. 01:06:42
Yeah, the great questions. The occupancy rates were pulled from, it's like a National Association of hotels and lodging. 01:06:48
And they were specific with Utah, wasn't Wasatch Front specific, but it was Utah specific as well as other states. But you could 01:06:56
break it down national or you could look at Utah. I put the 60 to 65 Utah that right in the middle, I think it was like 62.3%, but 01:07:02
it also varies by year. You know 2020 I think that occupancy it was like 40%, but the years prior it was right around that 60 to 01:07:08
65. 01:07:14
Within that range, but the codes were all pulled from the Wasatch region. Ohh yeah, the codes, yeah all that, but benchmarking was 01:07:21
just the the Wasatch region. Did you have the seasonal occupy? It didn't say anything about seasonality of of the occupancy rate. 01:07:28
Do you want to look it up? While? Yeah, I can. I can see what I can write. 01:07:36
Anyone else? 01:07:39
Down for you guys. 01:07:44
Since you. 01:07:47
So first, I do have questions for the five council members. 01:07:52
But with my name is still Tyler Harrelson and I still live in Edgewater. 01:07:58
Have you guys ever been to a hotel in Utah where you could not find a place to park? Not just you had to walk further than you 01:08:03
would like, but you could not find a place to park? 01:08:08
Where's your hand? 01:08:14
I've been to hotels where they charge me an arm and a leg to park, OK, And then I choose to park on the street. Yep. And then at 01:08:16
one point in my life, when we were a little tight on budget, we moved our car every two hours to avoid that fee. Yep. 01:08:22
And. 01:08:29
US wide, not just in Utah. Have you had any same question? 01:08:30
You know, I have actually. 01:08:36
More I've had a park and a like dirt lot or. 01:08:39
Most hotels that I've stayed at recently though, have changed to. 01:08:43
Giving you an identification so that you are parking in their area, so that it's not taken over by shared parking lots outside of 01:08:48
it, Yeah. 01:08:52
Which could be a stipulation that we put in this code, right? 01:08:57
So, OK, so. 01:09:00
I'm assuming all of you are 24 like me or. 01:09:03
About 25, so that's 150 years of experience. 01:09:07
Umm. 01:09:12
200. 01:09:16
So sticking with the 25. 01:09:20
That's 150 years of experience. 01:09:23
Going to hotels. 01:09:25
And motels across the US, we've had one. 01:09:27
Experience. We didn't want to pay as much. 01:09:30
And one experience where you had to. 01:09:33
I don't have an experience, but it was it was DC. I didn't have a parking spot. OK, OK, I did have to go somewhere else and pay 01:09:35
for a parking spot. 01:09:39
OK. 01:09:43
So. 01:09:44
3. 01:09:45
One of which was too high cost in 150 years. 01:09:46
And yet we pay for all of the piping to go in there. We pay for water to fill those pipes. We pay for the treatment of water we 01:09:51
have. 01:09:56
Sewer that's got to go through all those. 01:10:02
The guy that got up here earlier and said he had trouble with the tax increases. 01:10:04
He's got to pay for the taxes that. 01:10:08
Caught the cost of piping all of this through empty parking lots. 01:10:11
Which clearly the major issue, I mean we between us we have to have gone to thousands of hotels, at least hundreds. 01:10:16
And there's three experiences nationwide, one in DC. 01:10:23
Which is a lot different than here. 01:10:28
Where we had. 01:10:31
Insufficient parking. To me, it's very clear. 01:10:31
Anecdotally at least. 01:10:35
That the issue is paying too much for too much parking if you look at the parking lot out here. 01:10:36
Right now, this is like the best attended City Council meeting I've seen in like months. 01:10:43
And we still have like almost half the parking lot is empty. 01:10:48
And we're all paying for the services to go through there and we're having more trouble with flooding because of that and we took 01:10:52
away space from the park because of that. 01:10:56
So what I've pulled up here for you, what I've given you the handout for. 01:11:01
This is from the ITE. It is the. 01:11:05
Institute for Transportation Engineers. 01:11:08
They're one of the five organizations that the federal government allows to set regulations nationwide for everywhere from Alaska 01:11:11
to Hawaii to Florida to DC to here. 01:11:16
This is their data, their most recent data. 01:11:22
For. 01:11:25
Parking at hotels. They have two data points. 01:11:27
And the line that they drew to determine how much? 01:11:31
Parking should be determined. 01:11:35
Should be put in as a number. Doesn't even go through the tube data points. 01:11:37
You look down at their R-squared at the bottom right corner. 01:11:40
That is an explanation. That's the value that says how much of the dependent variable is caused by the Oregon. 01:11:43
How much the independent variable predicts the dependent variable? It is 0. 01:11:52
Which means that the room occupancy that they have there is a 0% predictor. 01:11:57
Of how many parking spaces are needed? Zero percent. 01:12:02
And they drew the line, not where the two data points are. That means they pulled the line out of their butts and stuck it on. 01:12:06
The the chart. 01:12:13
And now it's a national regulation. 01:12:14
I cannot believe that this is even a question, frankly. I think that the commercial. 01:12:17
In my opinion, we should let the hotels determine all of their commercial parking lot. 01:12:24
Use. 01:12:28
Because the worst thing that happens, as you two mentioned. 01:12:29
You didn't, like, stay homeless on the street. You went to a different parking lot, you had to pay for one and you had to walk in 01:12:32
a. 01:12:36
Kind of. 01:12:39
Scary area. 01:12:40
It sounded like from a dirt parking lot for the other. 01:12:42
And you were just fine. 01:12:45
Right. 01:12:46
I. 01:12:47
At I'm frankly think we should let the hotels determine their own parking minimums. This is bull crap. We're also using the 01:12:48
ordinance was passed in 2009, so the code that they would been using. 01:12:54
Was from 2004. If they even used the color all they might have taken it from different city that would have been using it even. 01:12:59
Order code. So that's 20 years old. 01:13:05
This has no applicability. 01:13:08
Regulation is not applicable at all to us right now. The Provo code is a great idea too. You have them work with the city to 01:13:10
determine what current parking needs are. 01:13:14
That's a great option because we can still force them to put in sufficient parking if they're going to be ridiculous and not put 01:13:19
in enough parking. 01:13:22
But you don't have to. 01:13:26
Get stuck in a 20 year old. 01:13:28
Like when I looked up the minutes for this meeting, the population was like 200 people at the time, no public comments. They 01:13:30
didn't even discuss this. 01:13:34
And we're. 01:13:39
Stuck to it and I have to come up here and talk to you about this. So at the very least get rid of the visitor parking because 01:13:40
none of us have had an issue with the. 01:13:44
Tools that are existed in Utah. Sorry I'm so animated about this. I I looked at this graph and I like stats and I was like, what 01:13:48
the crap is going on here? Thank you. 01:13:52
So thank you. 01:13:57
My name is Mr. Gary Evans, also known as Russ. 01:14:06
The. 01:14:11
That's a fundamental has happened here. 01:14:13
My life kind of got me going to these, but. 01:14:16
Last week I expressed some concerns with Planning Commission about the about this. 01:14:18
And. 01:14:22
But then one thing that maybe maybe came around a little bit is the comment that the the Potel doesn't have adequate parking. 01:14:23
People won't stay there. 01:14:27
To me, that resonated and made some sense to me. 01:14:31
So. 01:14:34
I'm OK if you. 01:14:36
Want to take out the 10 parking spaces? I guess is where I'm at. 01:14:38
Because, like I say, it's in the hotel's best interest to have adequate parking. 01:14:41
Financially not always the big driver and one of the comments, and this may not be the right form for it, but these public 01:14:46
hearings were allowed to make comments. 01:14:50
And then further discussions were made. 01:14:54
And we want to make comments and we can't because other things are brought up. So I'm not sure if there's anything that can be 01:14:56
done about that. So we didn't have that sit back there tight lipped and you don't wanna say in fact they got chided winsome 01:15:00
Planning Commission for doing that because I. 01:15:04
Had something to say and they wouldn't let me say it because a new thing had been brought up. So I'm not sure what we can can do 01:15:09
about that, but. 01:15:12
And I'm not saying there's something allows. What I usually do is have people raise their hands and I allow people to come up. 01:15:16
That's what I usually do. If the if it's repetitive and the business needs to continue, I move us on to the next discussion. OK. 01:15:22
Just applying to vision. I will shut down and I was wrong you know but doctor even did apology to. 01:15:28
The brace. 01:15:35
Brady. 01:15:36
Yeah. Well, if you have a question or a comment, make sure to raise your hand. Thank you. Appreciate that. 01:15:38
Thanks. 01:15:43
Any other comments? 01:15:44
Hi, my name is Christian Haraldson. I live in the cottonwoods. 01:15:52
Just to go off Tyler's graph, if you seen it, just want to say I think a kindergartener could probably do better statistics than 01:15:56
that. Really embarrassing, but. 01:15:59
And I think it was great that sorry I forgot your name, but he did studies of the other cities codes and that makes sense. 01:16:03
The problem is that the other cities probably made their codes by the exact same way they studied other cities codes. Who studies 01:16:10
other cities codes that ultimately basically came down to this study that you're looking at. 01:16:15
That was pulled out of thin air, right? And so we're playing this giant game of gossip. 01:16:20
And I'm also of the opinion that. 01:16:24
It is up to the hotel how much they want to put parking. We already have the minimum parking for the rooms and the restaurants and 01:16:26
the other things like that. 01:16:30
If they want to have guest parking. 01:16:34
That's up to them. I don't think that's something we should force on them, and I think we should be trying to have the memo amount 01:16:36
of code that we should. We don't want to be. 01:16:40
Floating our code. In fact, we need to be going through and moving stuff that doesn't make sense when. 01:16:44
We can leave it up to them in the free market if. 01:16:50
They don't want to put visitor parking and they want visitors there. 01:16:53
Then people may go elsewhere, but the reality is. 01:16:56
It really does suck to walk through giant scores of empty parking lots and if they want to put it there, and people are 01:17:00
themselves. 01:17:03
That's up to them. We're not gonna stop them, but let's give them the opportunity to make their own mistakes. 01:17:07
Thank you. 01:17:12
Hi, my name is Jordan Christensen. 01:17:22
I just want to follow up with the ITE Parking Demand Generation Manual. 01:17:24
So part of the reason why that exists is because there's. 01:17:28
Some criticism of city councils. 01:17:32
Making arbitrary parking minimums, I'm saying. 01:17:35
You're just creating this out of thin air. Maybe you're copying it from somebody else like we probably did, or maybe you're just 01:17:38
sitting back and saying, well. 01:17:41
Intuitively, if you have 100 rooms, that means you probably have maybe 100 cars. 01:17:45
Coming to your hotel and if you have other space for other things, then you know maybe you need more parking based on square 01:17:52
footage. 01:17:55
And and their approach was to say, yeah, we don't have to make arbitrary decisions, we can provide evidence based research. 01:17:58
And that's what they that's their strategy of saying we're going to do research, we're going to collect data, we're going to build 01:18:05
models and we're going to package all of that and sell it and so then that way. 01:18:11
You know city councilors can make informed decisions about parking and and this is the evidence that they have used for you, 01:18:18
right? It's. 01:18:21
Is 2 samples and and realistic I think. I think that's just undermines. 01:18:25
What what we're trying to say is, is not that research shouldn't be done. Obviously research is needed. What we're trying to say 01:18:30
here is we're trying to predict how many cars are going to be showing up at this hotel, which is a difficult thing to do and that 01:18:35
takes. 01:18:40
I I mean as as an analyst myself, as somebody hired me to do that job. 01:18:45
I would definitely collect more than two observations, and. 01:18:49
And the second thing I noticed about this is that they're only using one variable to try to predict this. They're they're using. 01:18:52
Number of rooms as. 01:18:58
As their evidence that they're collecting it. If you really went out and started counting cars in a in a hotel parking lot. 01:19:01
After the first night of that, probably after the first hour of that, you would say. 01:19:08
This is dumb. I'm wasting my time not collecting other variables of interest here. 01:19:11
I should be aware of. 01:19:16
Like, how is this hotel going to manage their parking? Are they gonna charge for it? What What amenities exist around this hotel? 01:19:18
And it's realistically. 01:19:27
Realistically impossible for the city to try to provide that sort of research and evidence. Also evidently realistically 01:19:29
impossible for. 01:19:33
For ITE to provide that type of robust evidence. 01:19:38
But realistically it's like. 01:19:43
None of us have financial interest in this like this. This is on the hotel if they want to build a. 01:19:45
A parking lot that's too small and they're not going to be a profitable entity because of that. 01:19:50
That's their fault. 01:19:55
Like we don't need to be controlling everything here and and obviously we don't have the data or the financial backing to be able 01:19:57
to provide evidence. 01:20:01
And my my final question is here, if you're really convinced that we need exactly 10 visitor parking spots, can you at least give 01:20:05
us a confidence interval around that? 01:20:09
Like, that's a very exact. 01:20:14
Precise estimate and it's at the very least, if you're going to force them to build that give us a 95% confidence interval. Is it 01:20:16
really? 01:20:20
Is a really falling within a range that? 01:20:25
Would round to 10. 01:20:28
Would the lower bound realistically not be 8? 01:20:29
Thank you. 01:20:33
Thank you. 01:20:35
Any other comments? 01:20:37
Alright, I'm gonna go Ohh yeah. Do you have seasonal? Yes. So that's this is from the same. 01:20:39
Data. It's nationwide. Not according to Utah, though. 01:20:46
The high The peak for this occupancy rate is 70% in July, with a low of 39% in January. 01:20:49
So I don't see anything above 70% in this nationwide occupancy rate. 01:20:56
OK. 01:21:02
Thank you, Council. Questions. 01:21:03
Yes, thank you. That's what we were going to do. Closing the public hearing. I need a motion. 01:21:08
So moved first by Marty, second second by Amber. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Alright, we are now out of the public hearing. 01:21:12
Comments. 01:21:20
I believed as well and I wonder when we looked at this, the last update to this code was 29. 01:21:25
Teen 2018, do you recall? 01:21:30
Ohh, yeah, 20/20/18 the overall. 01:21:33
Code was updated. 01:21:37
But the section. 01:21:38
Yeah, this section a lot, a lot of those codes have were in place. We did a major amendment, but we didn't change everything. We 01:21:40
just like we tweaked a lot of little things, but we didn't like touch these types of sections, OK. 01:21:46
They were just curious to hear from those of you who've been sitting during that time. 01:21:53
Looks like it was not altered, but it was not altered. OK, right? 01:21:58
I have some thoughts. Go ahead, Martin. 01:22:03
So. 01:22:05
I I was frustrated to see this request because. 01:22:07
Um. 01:22:10
It's just a common theme that we have a lot of concerns about parking and we're trying to work with our citizens and help them 01:22:13
understand that we're doing what we can to balance things And we're a new growing city, so there's always going to be growing 01:22:18
pains and there's always going to be situations where we have. 01:22:24
You know. 01:22:30
A parking situation that down the road, our plans will hopefully balance it out and make it appropriate. 01:22:31
Umm. 01:22:37
As we were talking before at the beginning of the meeting. 01:22:38
I have so many thoughts. 01:22:41
I was a college student without a car. 01:22:44
For the first year of college, I couldn't afford a car and I found an apartment that. 01:22:46
I was in walking distance of my job, my school and a grocery store. It was fantastic. 01:22:51
But as an adult, I definitely will always have a car and so, and I don't expect our senior community to be walking long distances 01:22:56
or riding their scooters across town. 01:23:01
And so I think it's a balance somewhere in between that we're trying to hit here. I mean, I love the comments. 01:23:07
From our bikers over here that. 01:23:13
Just. 01:23:15
It's it's great the information they're sharing. 01:23:16
But for me personally, I don't have any interest in changing the code right now as we're growing and developing. 01:23:19
And it's 10 parking spots. I'd rather just leave it while we're. 01:23:25
Balancing things out while we're growing and figuring things out. 01:23:30
For me, I'd rather have 10 extra parking spots in one parking lot. 01:23:33
Then have to cut it out and then later realize. 01:23:37
Well, the problem is is that we don't have that overflow. 01:23:40
Because my question is. 01:23:43
If by some chance. 01:23:45
They're somehow wrong. Which? 01:23:47
They've convinced me they probably aren't, but. 01:23:49
If they are wrong. 01:23:52
Where is that overflow parking gonna go then? You're does not have a bunch of empty parking lots. In my opinion, during certain 01:23:53
hours of the day, top golf parking lot isn't full and during certain hours of the day. 01:23:59
There's going to be better availability, but I just, I don't have any interest in improving. 01:24:05
And. 01:24:11
Cutting our parking when I'm constantly trying to convince everybody to add more parking to our code. 01:24:12
Such Stephanie. 01:24:18
Ohh, just added general thought. 01:24:26
Having sat here for eight years listening to people scream at me about parking. 01:24:29
Literally. 01:24:35
And then have people question our judgment. 01:24:38
Like, we're crazy. 01:24:41
We're stupid. 01:24:43
Or we're doing something in somebody else's interest. 01:24:45
That's my eight years experience. 01:24:49
2. 01:24:52
I've been through a number of interesting occupations. 01:24:55
And I've generally found when I. 01:25:01
Settled for a moment and listened. 01:25:04
And separated the garbage that some people talk. 01:25:09
And the fallacies that some people believe. 01:25:14
And the fairy tales were perfect societies that some people want. 01:25:18
There's an answer. 01:25:23
Now. 01:25:25
I've made any number of judgments in those eight years. 01:25:28
Sitting up here. 01:25:31
I have found. Unfortunately I can never please anybody. 01:25:35
That includes any of you here in this room. 01:25:41
Some of you are going to disagree with what I do. 01:25:46
Others gonna go, wow, he's brilliant. 01:25:49
And somebody else is gonna decide to send me a note that. 01:25:52
Since I'm. 01:25:56
Basically intellectually bereft. 01:25:57
So now. 01:26:02
Parking. 01:26:04
I'm a firm believer. 01:26:06
Of the statement made by some intelligent person. 01:26:08
That. 01:26:12
If you build bigger roads and you build bigger parking lots, you will invite more cars. 01:26:13
If you build smaller roads and smaller parking lots, you'll invite more criticism. 01:26:19
That's life. 01:26:26
I'm not pleased with this. 01:26:30
Proposal. 01:26:33
And if. 01:26:37
The good gentleman and development ex were here. I'd tell them this to their face. I'm sick and tired. 01:26:39
Of development acts begging for changes. 01:26:45
Flat out. 01:26:50
I've listened to him for a number of years and there's always something going on. 01:26:53
So. 01:27:02
One side of me says no, no one, hell no. 01:27:03
Because I'm sick and tired of this. 01:27:08
The other side is. 01:27:10
Why in the world are you bothering me about 10 freaking parking spaces? 01:27:12
When you could have solved this problem. 01:27:18
At the. 01:27:21
Staff level. 01:27:22
At some point. 01:27:24
So I'm frustrated. 01:27:27
I'm not sure what I'm going to vote. 01:27:35
But I'm not pleased. 01:27:38
Now. 01:27:41
I've only got. 01:27:42
You know. 01:27:44
Five more months left up here. 01:27:44
And if the girl next comes back with another? 01:27:47
2 bit small time change. 01:27:50
Or big for funding? 01:27:53
Or tax relief or any of the other things they've done over the years. 01:27:55
I'm gonna vote no matter what it is. 01:27:59
Playing It's simple. 01:28:04
Any other comments? 01:28:11
Do you have a comment? 01:28:17
Do you have a comment? Because I have a comment, but I'll turn it to yours. 01:28:19
Yeah. 01:28:27
I'm going to tell you you're brilliant and then I'm also gonna write you a note that. 01:28:30
Question. 01:28:35
You're welcome. 01:28:35
Umm. 01:28:38
This isn't. This isn't interesting. This is an interesting meeting. 01:28:40
Umm. 01:28:44
It's interesting having you know, first of all. 01:28:44
I love it when. 01:28:48
Our residents come and tell us about your experience in our city. 01:28:49
It's really helpful. 01:28:53
Umm. 01:28:55
So that we know what your experience is and. 01:28:56
We're all residents too. We live here and we have our experiences as well. But. 01:28:59
It's good to have. 01:29:03
The full picture. 01:29:05
And then those public comments Tonight, we heard people who were. 01:29:06
Concerned about parking, right? It's it's not enough. We need to do more. We should have done more. 01:29:10
And here we are in a situation where it's like, OK. 01:29:15
You do too much do we do much. 01:29:18
And it's UM. 01:29:22
It it puts you in a tough, a tough position making that decision right because. 01:29:26
Because you want to get it right. You want to make sure that everybody is happy and has our parking spot. 01:29:33
And you also don't want to do too much because. 01:29:37
It's awful. Having seen it, it's it makes the world hotter and you have to take care of it and it costs money and. 01:29:42
You're right, Utilities run under Ribbon. 01:29:48
Umm. 01:29:50
And so you don't. You don't want to have extra parking. If nobody's using it, it's It's an equal opposite problem to having. 01:29:52
Too little parking, right? 01:29:59
And there needs to be a way to and then there's the. 01:30:01
On the one hand, people are fighting like let them dictate with them as the market dictate what it is right. 01:30:06
At the same time, it's like, no, let the city tell them what they need, right? 01:30:10
Umm. 01:30:14
We're getting really two different. 01:30:16
Two different. 01:30:18
Desires here in this audience from our residents and. 01:30:19
Um. 01:30:23
And I've seen this go different ways in our city. 01:30:25
At the hair. 01:30:28
A while as well and. 01:30:30
I've had to live with decisions people have made on parking before me with with developments. 01:30:32
And figure out how to do our best to help it when it didn't workout. 01:30:37
We've increased parking. 01:30:41
And a lot of our study, I believe it or not, after having made some of those. 01:30:43
Seems that people in the past maybe didn't do it quite as well as we thought. 01:30:47
And we've added more parking and all of those places that have the most parking we've ever done. 01:30:52
Still have parking problems. 01:30:57
Umm. 01:30:58
So I'm I'm in a. 01:31:02
It's a train. It's a strange spot to be in. 01:31:07
I feel like. 01:31:11
When I look at the code. 01:31:13
Um. 01:31:16
And I look at what the other cities have done. 01:31:18
And a lot of these cities are. 01:31:21
Further along in their development than we are. 01:31:23
And so I I don't think there's anything wrong with. 01:31:28
Looking at what they've done and seeing what they've learned and maybe they've made adjustments along their way. 01:31:30
It's interesting. Our code is not like anybody else. I think Marty, you had said maybe it shouldn't be like anybody else because 01:31:41
we're different and and that's a good argument because we are different than you're just doing something different here than we 01:31:46
are doing. 01:31:50
And a lot of the cities in the valley. 01:31:55
Umm. 01:31:57
And I know our residents. 01:31:58
Whether they like it or not, you know that. You know we have a big town town coming we do believe in. 01:32:00
Having. 01:32:05
Pathways of transportation. That works for everybody. 01:32:06
That's all because we do things different and we take pride in that. 01:32:10
Maybe our code does look different. 01:32:14
Um. 01:32:16
I'm gonna have to think about this a little bit more. 01:32:17
Julie said you had some comments and I'd love to hear what you have to say as well. Yeah, I really love the comments that came in 01:32:19
tonight. I'm big on property rights. I believe people should be able to petition their government. 01:32:24
I think that property rights belong to. 01:32:30
Hotels and developers and homeowners, and I think that's important. I'd like to comment that Russ Evans made about the Planning 01:32:34
Commission saying that if there's not parking there, that people won't come. This is similar with the movie theaters. 01:32:40
It's something that they have to plan for and they have to understand. 01:32:47
That was really interesting to me. I also am a real big supporter of the free market and having them control their own 01:32:51
environment. 01:32:54
I think in this particular area I would want them to control their parking. 01:32:58
I don't know how we would put that stipulation in most hotels do and I think that's a good stipulation. 01:33:02
And I think what's important about it is that if they are controlling their parking and the occupancy rate even. 01:33:08
At the highest if you're looking at the national and it's not even getting to 83%. 01:33:14
So there are occupancy is never going to be over and we have enough accommodations for the hotel rooms and our code still 01:33:19
accommodates all of the other uses. 01:33:23
I think that's sufficient because on all of the National we never got to that and 62.3 and then. 01:33:27
That what was the high end, the seasonal occupancy was 70. 01:33:33
So I think that's OK. Um, what I. 01:33:37
What I imagine will happen is that they will naturally regulate their parking and there won't be a shared parking opportunity and 01:33:40
so people will just get towed out of there anyway, so they'll be empty. 01:33:45
Empty spaces. 01:33:50
And I'm pretty sure that at this moment we could look into it, but the construction of a parking stall is like 10,000 to 20,000 I 01:33:52
think at this point. 01:33:55
And so that's just a lot of money to put on a business. 01:33:59
And I feel like we're a business based and community and we want these types of businesses to come to us. 01:34:02
We want that diversification of tax dollars here and so for me I. 01:34:08
I I recognize the comments were parking, but I I think the comment that you said, Christy to me is that sometimes you can under 01:34:13
plan sometimes you can over plan and. 01:34:18
And what? 01:34:23
My values come back to our free market property rights business forward. 01:34:24
Facing, you know, making sure we're diversifying our tax dollars. And so I don't see this as being an issue, especially when all 01:34:29
of the data from the like 3 different places we got it from or. 01:34:34
Are suggesting this and our Planning Commission to ask the same questions and even our residents that were in opposition. 01:34:39
Recognize this and brought that forward. So I think that's probably the way that I'm going to sit with this this time and maybe 01:34:45
put that stipulation in that they regulate the parking because I would want it to go to a parcel. I don't want it to have to go 01:34:51
back to a development agreement. But what I would say is that we make that stipulation for all hotels that come into this. 01:34:57
GR Neil. 01:35:03
You're you're proposing that this is only. 01:35:06
The changes only for the TRU. 01:35:09
Yeah. So you're saying, I would say that code and I would say that they also regulate the parking. 01:35:11
Yeah, if we do that, I would request a probably a a continuance so that we can draft some some language that's fine. And you don't 01:35:15
want us to just give you a stipulation that you can come up with good language on that allows for that good, good. Well, I think 01:35:20
you have to have. 01:35:26
Oh, OK. Yeah. And then I would, for me, I would say I would like a continuance for that to just be allowed and then regulate your 01:35:33
parking. That's right. So you want it district specific and then you would like it that it's controlled. So we'll need to work 01:35:39
with the developer on that because they do have a, they don't have shared parking, but they have shared access. 01:35:46
And so I believe Carla and you, I don't know if you wanna address this, but so driving through the parking aisle. 01:35:54
That's that's a shared aisle between several businesses. So we we might not be able to do where it's like a a gated off parking 01:36:02
lot and no, but you could do some like yeah, whatever they're gonna do there. 01:36:08
Control to control, if you leave the control kind of. And then, yeah, maybe we can have them define, yeah, because if they're 01:36:15
gonna be sharing this with their businesses, then it, if this is a shared parking concept, I would say leave the 10 spaces in 01:36:19
because we're not accounting for it. 01:36:24
But if we're gonna say you're controlling your parking lot and more than happy to say go ahead and control it according to the 01:36:28
hotel data that we looked at, according to being business friendly. But if there's other businesses that are coming and going that 01:36:33
need this and they're sure parking, I would have a totally different recommendation. 01:36:38
That's great. And while you're at it, I would be interested to know what the surrounding business like. I know nothing, I don't 01:36:44
believe anything set. 01:36:48
For the businesses surrounding where this hotel possibly could be, I saw a rendering. 01:36:52
It'd just be interesting. 01:36:57
For the restaurant in the corner, how much parking they'll have versus maybe kind of the proposed idea for the. 01:36:59
Part of the buildings, Carla, would that be something X Dev would be willing to to to share like the the overall concept plan 01:37:05
you're gonna have to talk like this. 01:37:10
Yeah, and additionally already thought I was looking at something like that. 01:37:14
I wouldn't put the cost of the parking stalls on the hotel, but I would rather put it on the restaurant. 01:37:18
So we're not ready to disclose the the users just yet because each individual parcel will be. 01:37:25
It will be parceled, will be sold off to the well. There might be some ground leases as well, but mostly they'll be sold. And so 01:37:32
since we are in ongoing negotiations, we we don't want to make that public record just yet. But like I said because they are 01:37:38
individual parcels, we don't have a cross parking agreement and that's one of the reasons why. 01:37:44
Where we were looking at this and and quite frankly because of some of the issues with that particular parcel, we're dealing with 01:37:51
a well that makes things very awkward and so in order to make something even work. 01:37:58
We can't quite frankly fit a hotel if we have those ten additional spaces. And so I know that's something we've been working with 01:38:05
the planning department, they really would like to get something that has you know, a higher elevation that's more in harmony with 01:38:12
what you know what's going across the street by Top Golf and so forth to have a better be a better entrance. And that's what we're 01:38:19
trying to put there. But in order to make that happen, we have to. 01:38:26
To figure out the parking situation as well so that that is one of the the issues at hand. 01:38:34
Alright, well I recommend a continuation for my change to the ordinance. Marty was a no vote or no comment. I couldn't understand. 01:38:40
No. If. If. If we were gonna. 01:38:52
And. 01:38:54
You can postpone it. I'll just go. 01:38:55
Have you? Have you? Yeah. OK. 01:38:57
Council, I don't know if you want to move forward, Mayor. I'll I'll support your motion. 01:39:00
That's the way I would agree to this, OK. 01:39:05
Anybody else have any comments? Yeah, I'll just share our support what you're doing and I think the onus should be on the 01:39:09
business. 01:39:12
And I think that I don't want us to have to micromanage. 01:39:15
Everybody and over regulate, That's what I hear about a lot is over regulation. I feel really good about the research that staff 01:39:19
has put into this. It's reasonable and I like to see what staff comes up with in the end. 01:39:26
And if. 01:39:33
If we're continuing it, and I actually agree, I think we should continue it. I I. 01:39:35
Also would be favorable into looking at closer into what Provo does because. 01:39:39
Anybody. 01:39:45
Remembers back in my time like Planning Commission, I really do love myself a conditional youth permit and that is the option to 01:39:47
have people come in and. 01:39:50
And talk about their projects and we you can make things specific and so I can see the wisdom and probably what Pro did was. 01:39:54
They have different products coming in and that gives believe it is conditional use permit right cash that's all used. 01:40:02
There's no. 01:40:08
Yeah. 01:40:10
But that might be. That's something I would like to explore and see how that that works there. I like the idea of. 01:40:11
Again, as different projects come in and might have. 01:40:18
Because. 01:40:21
You know, I've. 01:40:22
I've heard about other opportunities coming to the city and and in that case, maybe we actually look at doing it, not just in the 01:40:23
Gru. Maybe this is something we, if we're gonna take a whack at it, might as well do a good job. 01:40:29
But I like the idea that the public could also be engaged in that process, so when something comes in. 01:40:36
They also have an opportunity to to see what the decisions are on that. I have a question since we're continuing it and now we're 01:40:40
looking at potentially two different. 01:40:45
Options. 01:40:50
I mean, at the same time, since we're continuing it, we could also talk about isolating it to the parcel. I mean, do we? 01:40:51
Till we vote for those two things or can we just say we're going to come back to this? 01:40:58
You have flexibility to. 01:41:03
Modified the language now that it's been noticed and you've had a hearing. 01:41:06
You've heard things that have. 01:41:10
Caused you to reconsider kind of the scope and the language, and that's entirely appropriate. 01:41:13
As far as the order goes, what I would recommend is. 01:41:19
Pam, the hearing was closed already. I got that right. 01:41:22
So the hearing's been closed. You do not have to rehear the item, but you can. 01:41:25
Allow for public comment if you choose. 01:41:31
And then you can have staff work on text amendments that would get out the things that were discussed tonight and present that at 01:41:33
a future council meeting. 01:41:37
Where the hearing has been closed, you don't need to. 01:41:43
Continue it to a specific date. You can leave it open-ended. 01:41:45
If it's ready for your next meeting, you could consider it. Then. If you need time to do it at a later meeting, you can. 01:41:48
Do it at a later time. 01:41:54
OK. Can I add a comment? Yeah. 01:41:55
And. 01:41:58
I just wanna add. 01:41:59
For and I guess this little pie to next time we get together, I have concerns about parking in that area specifically for the. 01:42:00
I think it's a residential building that's just north of there and so for me it's really hard to when I think that that. 01:42:08
Lot isn't gonna have enough parking. 01:42:14
That said. 01:42:17
Cut back on parking over in this area and I know that this lots problem shouldn't become this lots problem. 01:42:19
But just overall with X development I'm. 01:42:24
I'm gonna have a hard time being convinced. 01:42:27
Well, I I think it's great. I don't think you need to be convinced someone. I mean if you if. 01:42:30
For me, my only sound is that I know that hotels are going to regulate their parking and it doesn't matter if we don't feel like 01:42:33
there's enough parking for the residential, it's not going to bleed into the hotel parking they're going to tow them. 01:42:39
So if we see a parking problem with the residential, then let's go back and look at our opportunities that we have right now since 01:42:45
there's flexibility in the parcels and let's ramp up the parking that needs to go. 01:42:50
And over there and find if we can come up with some other accommodation. Now if the hotel and the residential had some shared 01:42:56
agreement that they said we're going to share parking, I'd be more favorable of this. So if the development that's building both 01:43:00
the residential and the. 01:43:04
The hotel parking put the onus on each other and they had a contract. I'd be favorable to do it, but just put it on a hotel and 01:43:09
then. 01:43:13
Have them pay for something that that's gonna be regulated in towing. I just don't see that as being. 01:43:16
That and I I guess I'm looking more at at the developer because I feel like in that meeting that they talked about all the 01:43:21
parking. I didn't feel like it was a sufficient need. 01:43:26
And it wasn't at a point where I could have conversation and I wasn't on council. 01:43:32
But I hear that it's not even exactly what it needs to be, and so I'm just. 01:43:36
OK, then I just need a motion to continue this to a future meeting because the public hearing was closed. So we don't have to. 01:44:11
Announce the time. 01:44:17
Madam Mayor, I move that we continued the discussion of item 9.1. 01:44:19
Zoning text amendment. 01:44:24
To a future date, Thank you First Baptist Second Second by Amber. 01:44:26
All in favor, aye, it doesn't have to be roll call because we're just moving it. OK, great. This next meeting, it's a public 01:44:30
hearing and it needs to be continued, it's was continued on by the Planning Commission and so we're just looking to continue it to 01:44:35
the next. 01:44:40
City Council meeting, is that right? 01:44:46
That's good. Just where it's public hearing, you have to continue it to OK, but that next Councilman is. 01:44:48
I see it an option where we can strike the item as well. 01:44:54
Because I'm wondering since Planning Commission isn't. 01:44:59
Didn't have a recommendation. If they're not satisfied the next one we're just gonna keep pushing it with striking it up. 01:45:02
You're able to strike it as well. The caveat with that is if you strike an item then you have to re notice the public hearing and 01:45:08
so that costs you can't. 01:45:12
Put it on an agenda immediately. You would have to wait for the amount of time necessary for that hearing to be noticed. Do you 01:45:17
wanna strike it, though, so we're not held to a time. 01:45:21
Umm. 01:45:27
If it costs money to strike it and have to re notice it it it doesn't, we don't have to do mailings. It's just yeah, it's not 01:45:29
mailings on this item. It's a general notice. So there's not an expense associated with the reason why. I say I want the way I 01:45:35
watch Planning Commission and I just felt like it wasn't a very productive meeting and I don't know if they're going to come back 01:45:41
in one meeting and satisfy everything. So I would rather strike this until I know they've had a successful Planning Commission. 01:45:48
And then we notice it. That's good, but it doesn't cost money. So what you could do, you could strike it. 01:45:54
Or you could continue it to not the next meeting but the next meeting. After that you just have to name the date. 01:46:00
So. 01:46:06
I'm OK with whatever. 01:46:08
I would, I would just move to strike the item 9.2 Public Hearing Zoning Code Text Amendments Ordinance 2023 Dash 27 from the 01:46:13
agenda and have the public hearing notice it for a later date. 01:46:17
OK, first time already. I'll second that. Second by Christy all in favor. 01:46:23
Aye, aye. Alright. Thank you so much. I just need a motion to return. 01:46:27
So moved. Thank you, Amber. Second by Marty, all in favor. Aye. All right. Thank you for. 01:46:32
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All right. It looks like we're rolling. We're going to go ahead and get started. The time is 6:00. 00:00:16
It is July 26, 2023, and I'm going to call our Vineyard City Council to session. 00:00:21
We'll start with our council member, Tice Flake, and he'll lead us in an invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:27
Thank you. 00:00:35
Alright Emily. Father, we give you thanks for this day. We are most thankful for this. 00:00:37
Good land in which we live and for the. 00:00:41
Good people that surround us, we ask thy blessing to be upon this city. 00:00:44
They will continue to prosper that you might bless us as. 00:00:48
The Council and Mayor that we will make wise decisions on behalf of our. 00:00:52
Folders. 00:00:57
We give you thanks for the people who service. 00:00:58
For the fire and protection. 00:01:01
For the good men and women who serve in our armed forces. 00:01:04
We ask that you watch over and protect them at all times. 00:01:08
Again we thank you for the rain that has fallen. Nurses are ground and we say soon. Jesus Christ, Amen. Please stand. 00:01:11
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the Republic states, one nation under God, indivisible, with 00:01:21
liberty and justice for all. Thank you. 00:01:27
Alright, we'll go ahead and move right into our work session. Today we're going to be talking about the water tank mural. A lot of 00:01:36
you in the audience have asked about it. So you've come to the right meeting to learn a little bit more about it. Tonight. We 00:01:42
won't be making a motion, we'll just be discussing some general guidance that will go to the Arch Commission. 00:01:48
So Morgan Brown will come up and talk and then we'll hear from the artist as well. And council, you'll have the opportunity to ask 00:01:54
some questions and give a little bit of guidance that will eventually go. 00:01:59
See the Arts Commission and then come back to the public. 00:02:05
Great, thank you Mayor. Members of City Council appreciate this opportunity to be before you tonight and talk about the the mural, 00:02:21
this was something that was funded in the budget for for us to undertake this year. As you know we have a a pretty significant 00:02:27
wall that's going to be facing. 00:02:32
Front runner. 00:02:39
And so the council found that it would be great a great spot to create a gateway feature and to add art as we come in on to the 00:02:40
city and so provide kind of that that I guess that first sign of of your in Vineyard. 00:02:46
Um. 00:02:53
And so we put out an RFP. 00:02:54
And received, I believe, 10 responses. 00:02:56
And of those was algae. Algae in the back right there gonna give away. 00:03:00
LJ is a is a a local artist and a very talented. We went through the proposals and you know his was the the, the best proposal. We 00:03:06
absolutely loved it and we're lucky enough that he's he's a vineyard resident as well. So they'll be able to add some art to to to 00:03:13
his his his own town. What we wanted to do I guess the process from here is that we would. 00:03:21
The current first stop, get some general guidance from what kind of you're wanting the the water tank, that wall to represent as 00:03:30
you come down front runner into the city. What what do you want people to see? 00:03:36
You know what's what's kind of the general feel? 00:03:44
That you want represented there. And it doesn't necessarily have to be you know, necessarily have to get like details you want. 00:03:46
You know this type of tree. 00:03:51
You want a specific type of bird, just generally to provide some guidance to the artist, so I don't know if I'll do you want to 00:03:57
come up and maybe just do a quick intro of of you and. 00:04:01
Kind of some of the work that that you've done and then we can just get some guidance from the council. Hey, how's it going? 00:04:06
I'm LJ 7, Phillip bit underdressed I just came from. 00:04:13
Probably lucky I thought it was gonna be smaller meeting. 00:04:16
Like oh, oh. 00:04:20
But yeah, I kind of put together a little. 00:04:22
Rough draft of what I thought. I've been in videos for about 8 years now, so just something to. 00:04:25
Well, I felt kind of represented. I put it in the proposal, but I don't know if you guys wanna. 00:04:31
Look at that and kind of go off of that and then just add or take away or whatever, I don't know. 00:04:37
But but. 00:04:42
Yeah, whatever ideas you guys have. Whatever you think. 00:04:44
Would represent our city. 00:04:48
Ohh. 00:04:50
So. 00:04:51
Whatever you guys think, would you know? 00:04:52
Select We could represent our city and art piece. 00:04:55
I can pay whatever you guys want. Really. That's great. 00:04:58
I'm Cashier pulling that up right now. 00:05:02
OK. 00:05:04
So another another topic was stay connected. 00:05:09
From the the RFQ that we got, so I just kind of put like. 00:05:14
A couple of different. 00:05:19
Subjects or topics in staying connected like. 00:05:21
Our environment and the season that I use, the colors of the seasons for the mural. 00:05:26
Um also. 00:05:32
It's a multicultural city. 00:05:34
Very umm. 00:05:37
You know, a lot of different cultures. So I I kind of added all of that in. 00:05:38
And just kind of make it then in the middle of the whole mural has. 00:05:42
Vineyard City. 00:05:45
And then stay connected underneath. 00:05:47
Yeah, it's a big wall.