Start Position
Mayor Fullmer opened the meeting at01 PM. Councilmember Sifuentes gave the invocation and led the Pledge of Allegiance.     Work Session /Presentations /recognitions /awards /PROCLAMATIONS
Mayor Fullmer moved the presentation from later in the meeting to the work session.   PRESENTATION – Bicycle Advisory Commission award Planner, Anthony Fletcher will present an award to the Bicycle Advisory Commission.
Planner Anthony Fletcher introduced the award that the Bicycle Advisory Commission (BAC) earned and turned time over to BAC Commissioner, Anthony Jenkins
Mr. Jenkins spoke about the biking community and what our city offers to make it enjoyable. He mentioned safety and law enforcement being an important component as well. He presented the award to Mayor Fullmer and the council.
Mayor Fullmer accepted the award and mentioned the hard work that went into receiving the award.
Mayor Fullmer moved the meeting to the Work Session portion.1  WORK SESSION – Zoning Text Amendment – Landscaping Code City Attorney Jayme Blakesley will present a Zoning text amendment to the landscaping code.
City Attorney Jayme Blakesley presented the zoning text amendment to the landscape code. He spoke about common areas and who is responsible for landscaping. Mr. Blakesley stated that they found that there were areas where the maps and the zoning ordinance were not precise enough to know where the boundaries were and who was responsible for those areas. He said there may need to be a contract between Vineyard City and the Homeowners Associations (HOA). He stated there were essentially three (3) pieces: An agreement with HOA that would amend out of the zoning ordinance, the language related to landscaping. Move the agreement to a contract between the city and the HOA that would spell it out. If the common area designated in the HOA covenants, that apply to the property, didn’t accurately reflect where the lines were, to seek amendment of those covenants as part of that agreement. Mr. Blakesley continued that he wanted to engage with the HOA’s and start the process.
Councilmember Holdaway asked if the goal was to give the property back or have the ability to use it. Mr. Blakesley responded there was no desire to give or receive property, but to find who was responsible. He further explained that there were planting and lawn care areas along the fence that were not being cared for and the city thought they were to be part of the HOA common area. He stated the maps, and the code was not precise enough to know who was responsible. A discussion ensued regarding HOA covenants, common property and amendments needed. Mr. Blakesley said this would be a12-month process. Development Community Director, Morgan Brim, commented that if there were areas that needed to be treated during the process, they would address how to handle those. Mayor Fullmer said she would like those details worked out.2  PRESENTATION – Pavement Condition Assessment Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour will present the results of the citywide Pavement Condition Assessment completed by Horrocks Engineering
Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour shared a slide presentation regarding pavement preservation.
Mayor Fuller asked about the data regarding road conditions. Mr. Ghandour responded, and a discussion ensued about the range of conditions for roads. Councilmember Sifuentes asked about the budget. Mr. Ghandour responded that they would have it ready to present at the end of March. Mr. Ghandour continued with his presentation and a discussion ensued with the council.     Public Comments
Mayor Fullmer opened public comments.
Resident Keith Holdaway, living on Holdaway Road commented that he would like to encourage openness in our government. He said he would like to have more notice for meetings. Mr. Holdaway asked for an answer to a question he had asked previously.
Resident, David Lauret, living on Holdaway Road commented that he liked having items in the work session and to continue with that. He suggested items on the agenda be prolonged through three sessions. He appreciates having the attorney present and that he can explain certain terms that may be used.
Mayor Fullmer closed the public comments and then addressed.         Mayor and COUNCILMEMBERS’ REPORTS/DISCLOSURES/RECUSALS
Councilmember Holdaway apologized to the council and mayor about the special session meetings held over President’s Day weekend and the short notice given. Councilmember Holdaway reported on the two special sessions. He stated that he wasn’t aware that the retreat meeting was about the budget. He expressed concern about receiving information. A discussion with the council and staff ensued.
Councilmember Rasmussen reported on the legislative session. She reviewed some of the bills that were currently on the agenda that the city was watching. She reported on privacy, the community garden, and the BAC. A discussion ensued with council and staff.
Councilmember Sifuentes reported that she attended a meeting for Huntsman Cancer Institute where Huntsman shared some preliminary designs, goals, and their future. Mayor Fullmer commented that Huntsman was excited to be in our community. Councilmember Cameron expressed that some of the citizens were concerned about the cleanliness of the dirt at the building site. A discussion ensued with the council and staff.
Mayor Fullmer gave an update on infrastructure. She discussed opening transportation across the city lines and over the rail. She stated it was done through the Mountainland Association of Governments (MAG) process. Mayor Fullmer gave updates on00 North and all entry points including Geneva Road. Councilmember Holdaway mentioned that the bridge at00 North did not go through the MAG process. Mayor Fullmer responded that that was correct, but it was still going through a correct process since it was a local road. A discussion with the council and staff ensued.         STAFF, COMMISSION, and committee REPORTS                                                                                                           1  Neighborhood Community Services Coordinator, Maria Arteaga will provide an update on current code enforcement activity.
Neighborhood Community Services Coordinator, Maria Arteaga presented a summary of what she has been setting up in her new role. She shared data regarding complaints and other issues such as parking. Mr. Brim added that the issue with occupancy was connected to the parking issues. Lieutenant Holden Rockwell with the Utah County Sheriff’s Office commented on the parking issues and that they usually came from cars that were parked for longer periods of time. Mayor Fullmer asked if the parking issues were violating the ordinances in place. A discussion ensued.       CONSENT ITEMS1  Approval of the December23, Joint Planning Commission and City Council Meeting2  Approval of the January,24, City Council Meeting Minutes3  Approval of a Background Check Policy for Coaches (Resolution24-04)4  Approval of a bid award for the Stormwater Master Plan (Resolution24-05)5  Approval of Utah Premier Events Alcohol License6  Approval of aScholarship Program for Parks and Recreation’s Sports Programs (Resolution24-06)
Mayor Fullmer moved consent item3, Approval of a Background Check Policy for Coaches off the list for discussion.
Councilmember Holdaway asked to move consent item5. Approval of Utah Premier Events Alcohol License for more information.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO APPROVE AND ADOPT CONSENT ITEMS1,2,4, AND6 AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer turned the time over to Mr. Blakesley to discuss consent item3,Approval of a Background Check Policy for Coaches.
Mr. Blakesley let the council know that the policy in their packet was not the current one and they each should have an updated policy in front of them. He stated that the Parks and Recreation Department wanted to update their background policy to ensure safety in youth sports. Mr. Blakesley stated that the updated policy allows for reform. Councilmember Rasmussen asked if this policy could be used in other aspects of the city that involve minors. Mr. Blakesley stated that the wording would be changed from coaching to any individual that works with the youth.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM3 WITH THE CHANGE TO VINEYARD CITY VOLUNTEER BACKGROUND CHECK POLICY FOR ANY INDIVIDUAL THAT WORKS WITH MINORS. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Mayor Fullmer explained consent item5, Approval of Utah Premier Events Alcohol License. She stated that the event needs a waiver at the event because they would be serving alcohol.
Mr. Brim gave an overview of the Utah Premier Event. He explained that this was a class three (3) license that required local consent, which was approval from the city council, and it would be a onetime event. Mr. Blakesley stated that some items were legislative, but this one was administrative. A discussion ensued.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY MOVED TO APPROVE CONSENT ITEM5 AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN SECONDED THE MOTION. ROLL CALL WENT AS FOLLOWS: MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.     Appointments1Vineyard BicycleCommission With the advice and consent of the City Council, Mayor Fullmer will appoint Jim Price as a member and Chris Wiltsie as an alternate member to the Bicycle Advisory Commission.
Mayor Fullmer appointed Jim Price as a sitting member of the BAC and Chris Wiltsie as an alternate member of the BAC. She gave an overview of their backgrounds and stated that they were not residents of Vineyard and were considered “at-large’ members of the BAC.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER RASMUSSEN MOVED TO APPROVE THE MAYOR’S APPOINTMENTS TO THE BICYCLE COMMISSION AS PRESENTED. COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.     Presentations/recognitions/awards/PROCLAMATIONS Planner, Anthony Fletcher will present an award to the Bicycle Advisory Commission.   This item was moved to the Work Session portion of the meeting.     BUSINESS ITEMS    1PUBLIC HEARING –Budget Amendment Resolution24-01 (This item was continued from the January, and January,24, City Council Meetings.) City Manager, Eric Ellis, will present proposed amendments to the Fiscal Year23-2024 Budget. The mayor and city council will act to adopt (or deny) this request by resolution. (A public hearing was held on this item during the January,24, City Council Meeting.)
Councilmember Sifuentes stated that Councilmembers Holdaway and Cameron would like to see the budget and would like to move this item to the next city council meeting, March,24.
Motion: COUNCILMEMBER SIFUENTES MOVED TO CONTINUE ITEM1 THE BUDGET AMENDMENT RESOLUTION24-01 TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON MARCH,24. COUNCILMEMBER HOLDAWAY SECONDED THE MOTION. MAYOR FULLMER, COUNCILMEMBERS CAMERON, HOLDAWAY, RASMUSSEN, AND SIFUENTES VOTED YES. THE MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Councilmember Holdaway mentioned that resident David Pearce was serving as the Vineyard Cares Board Chair. He wanted to ask council about the board support and how people volunteer. Mayor Fullmer responded with information on how to volunteer.    . CLOSED SESSION No closed session was held.    .ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Fullmer adjourned the meeting at09 PM.     MINUTES APPROVED ON:      March,24   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY:  heidi jackman, dePUty recorder
I. 00:00:00
OK, all right. Today is February 21st. It's Wednesday, the year 2024, and the time is 601. We're going to go ahead and start a 00:00:07
City Council meeting. I asked Council Member Fuentes if you could lead us in a thought indication and one of those or both, if you 00:00:14
want, and the Pledge of Allegiance. OK, I'll start with prayer. 00:00:22
Father, kind, heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful day that we've received moisture and that we've been 00:00:32
able to. 00:00:35
Where it can live in this free country. We're so very grateful for all the blessings that was bestowed upon us and for this 00:00:41
wonderful city. We're grateful for the wonderful people in our community and the staff and all the people that are serving and 00:00:46
trying to help us. 00:00:50
Through good and hard times and. 00:00:56
That are working together. 00:01:00
To help build relationships, please bless and watch over us as we go throughout this meeting and as we work together that we can 00:01:02
do so with a spirit and working together and we're so very grateful for. 00:01:09
Our Savior Jesus Christ, and we say these things in His name, Amen. 00:01:18
All rise. 00:01:23
Of the United States of America, and consider Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 00:01:26
justice for all. 00:01:33
Thank you so much. All right, there's a little change in the schedule. 00:01:42
Let's see, we had a presentation that was going to be a little bit further down the schedule, but we're going to bump that to our 00:01:46
work session and this will be presented by Anthony Fletcher, who's one of our planners. Our Bicycle Advisory Commission has been 00:01:52
working hard and he's going to present an award that they. 00:01:58
Brought to us in our community. 00:02:06
Hi, my name is Anthony Fletcher and. 00:02:15
The city has been working really hard. 00:02:19
We've been trying hard to make sure we have a bike friendly community for all that's safe for our residents and visitors as well 00:02:22
that come into the city and we have been designated an award that makes us a bronze bike friendly community. But at this point I 00:02:29
want to turn it over to our BAC members to make that formal presentation for us to honor them for all the good work that they do 00:02:36
as well. 00:02:43
So I'll turn it over to Anthony Jenkins. 00:02:51
Thank you. 00:02:54
And safety and rights of the road and not driving distracted and enforcing, you know, speed limits and things like that. And so 00:04:03
thanks for keeping us safe. That's a big part of having a good community in general, but bike friendly community specifically. So 00:04:09
with that, I'll hand us over to the council and mayor. Thank you so much. Well, this has to do with so much of your hard work and 00:04:15
the the team that you guys that have been helping build together. So round of applause for you guys. 00:04:21
And then before you go, Anthony and Anthony, why don't you guys come up here and we'll get a picture with this, because it takes a 00:04:29
lot of work to create a community like this for the people that live here. 00:04:34
My new thing is actually. 00:04:54
Thank you. 00:05:15
I. 00:05:18
Right. With that, we'll move into our regular scheduled meeting, which is our we're going to go ahead and start with a zoning text 00:05:34
amendment on landscaping and our attorney Jamie Blakesley will present this for us. OK, thank you Mayor and thank you members of 00:05:40
the council for this time. We are in the work session portion of our meeting. And so imagine yourself around the conference room 00:05:46
table and we're just. 00:05:52
Kind of forecasting things that are coming down the road and we want to get your input on it. Broadly, we have the wave Vineyard 00:05:59
has done its zoning over the years is you have zoning districts established within the city and then for some of the projects that 00:06:06
were developed wholesale either from. 00:06:12
Well, areas that were built as a full neighborhood all at once, they enjoy special zoning districts. And then those special zoning 00:06:20
districts in our zoning ordinance have their own unique language about how certain things occur. One of the things that's 00:06:27
addressed in the planned unit development portion of the ordinance and then in the water's edge portion of the ordinance. 00:06:35
Is discussion about common areas and landscaping and who's responsible for landscaping. And so they point in places to landscaping 00:06:44
that the city's responsible for, and then they point to areas where the HO as or the owner of the common area are responsible for 00:06:51
that landscaping. As the years have passed and as the city and the Hoas have negotiated over who does what, we've found that there 00:06:59
are. 00:07:06
Some, I won't call them gaps, but there are areas where the maps in the zoning ordinance are not precise enough to know exactly 00:07:14
where those boundaries are and exactly who's responsible for what areas. And so we've been brainstorming about how do we get out 00:07:21
those gaps and what's the best way to do it. And what we think we have to do is some kind of an agreement with the Hoas that 00:07:29
touches on that will amend out of the zoning ordinance the language related to landscape. 00:07:37
And then move it to an agreement, a contract between the city and the Hoas that would spell that out. And then if the common areas 00:07:45
designated in the HOA covenants that apply to the property don't accurately reflect where those lines are, to seek amendment of 00:07:52
those covenants as part of that agreement. So there's kind of three pieces in, in some moving parts to how we do it. We would like 00:07:59
to engage with the HOAS and begin the process of doing that. I think it primarily effects water's edge. And so that would be the 00:08:06
first conversation. 00:08:13
To try to sort through who does that, I think the areas where there's most question over who does the landscaping are the 00:08:22
entrances and exits to the development and especially where there's signage and planting along the fence line of who does that. 00:08:28
And we of course have an interest in making sure that it's clear so we know how to budget for it and know who's responsible so it 00:08:35
can be kept nice. 00:08:41
So that's the basic topic of conversation and we just want to get a green light before we. 00:08:48
Start doing work on it and then if you have any. 00:08:54
Particular insights into areas of concern to make sure we note those so they can be addressed. 00:08:56
Any questions from the Council? 00:09:03
Is the is the goal to relinquish and give it? Is it always to give the property back to them or it's just the ability to use it? 00:09:07
Well, no, it's not. I don't think there's any desire to give or receive property. But where there's question about who's 00:09:14
responsible, we want to make sure that's addressed. 00:09:20
So right now you have some planting and lawn care and things like that along those fence areas where it's just not being cared 00:09:28
for. 00:09:32
We understood that to be part of the HOA common areas, and we're not sure exactly how they understand it, but when we look at the 00:09:37
maps in the code, they're not precise enough to really know. 00:09:43
Who's responsible for that area? 00:09:50
If the covenants are sufficiently clear, then we can probably figure it out in an agreement, you know who, who maintains it and 00:10:26
who cares for it. But we obviously don't want the HOA to have to maintain city property or the city to have to maintain HOA 00:10:32
property. So we just want to know where those exact boundaries are. It was exciting. I'm really glad. I know we've been working a 00:10:38
long time to kind of map that out so that we could move into this process. So it's nice to see that we're at this point. Are there 00:10:44
any other questions or comments? 00:10:50
In is it the intent also sometimes if it is that way to just deed over property so they might own it because in certain in meeting 00:10:56
with Hoas it's been incredible how. 00:11:02
I think there's four or five different instances where they've come and said we own this, but we don't know why we should and vice 00:11:10
versa. You own this, but it it doesn't make sense. Like the sprinkler lines. 00:11:16
And if we're going to be doing it of like, hey, you use this or that, why wouldn't we just clean up the property boundaries to 00:11:23
like fix it? Yeah, what I meant by amending the covenants is exactly, exactly that, the properties. Okay, yeah, the way HOA 00:11:30
covenants work is the properties divided up right? And you have individual homeowners whose own. 00:11:37
Their property, and then you have common property that's owned by all of them together, and the HOA controls that. In some 00:11:45
instances, to deed it, they'll have to go to a vote of the homeowners. So it's not a simple process all the time. But if redrawing 00:11:52
that on the deed and giving property to the city solves it, or vice versa, I think we're open to all solutions. We just want it at 00:11:58
the end of the day, our goal is to make sure that the city is kept to a nice standard and to know if we're responsible, then we 00:12:05
can do it. 00:12:12
And if we're not responsible, who do we hold accountable to make sure it's done? 00:12:19
And then my last question are you will, will you follow the same procedures of the HOA and just hold like allowing them to do a 00:12:23
public meeting on their on their side like an HOA? I think they're required to buy the statue. So we would help out, okay, Just if 00:12:30
they ask, okay, this will go through an official process on your side. I think this will end up being a six to 12 month process, 00:12:36
honestly to to sort it all out. We just wanted to begin the conversation. 00:12:42
Make sure you all were aware as we embark on it. Is there anything we can do, Jamie, in the interim? But you know, 6 to 12 months, 00:12:49
how will they be maintained then? 00:12:54
The same way they have been up until now. 00:13:00
Miss partly. 00:13:04
I don't, I don't think we, I don't think we can solve the issue until we get out the ownership questions. So. 00:13:06
Each week coalition meetings that we hold, so OK. 00:13:50
All right. Thank you so much, Sammy. We will go ahead and move on to our second presentation, our Pavement conditions assessment 00:13:56
and our Public Works Director, Nassim Gandor will present these results to us. 00:14:03
Press the button. 00:14:39
Yeah. 00:14:48
I think the door for the worst director. I have a presentation put together and kind of in the earnest of and the spirit of kind 00:14:59
of giving us some back story about pavement preservation. I got some background information for City Council. I'll go ahead and 00:15:06
ask now if City Council would like to kind of have a brief history of time of. 00:15:13
Pavement or whether they like to jump to kind of. 00:15:21
The bone of the bone of the presentation. 00:15:27
If anyone has a preference. 00:15:30
It won't. The total presentation probably be about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. I won't. I won't linger on any particular slide unless 00:15:33
I'm asked for. 00:15:37
All right, I don't think I need a history. I'll get the history later. 00:15:42
OK, see so Paving Preservation workshop. Sarah, do you feel that way? 00:15:48
You're OK. 00:15:54
Like I said, your policy, I mean just scroll through a few slides while when I get to the main point of it. So patient 00:15:56
preservation workshop on there. This gives you a little bit of background about me and all my fun stuff about living concrete. 00:16:03
All roads lead to all rose leaves Rome some history about pavement. Here's a here's a I'll stop for this one. A funny joke about 00:16:13
pavement. Romans built rose 2000 years ago. Modern roads it looked like worse than the Romans roads. So I always want to show 00:16:18
that. 00:16:23
Areas of concrete damage, asphalt damage, how much it costs to build a road, I do want to talk about here, but back in the day 00:16:30
they said, they used to say that the growth cost about $1 million per mile to build. Right now the role, it's kind of anywhere 00:16:38
between 1 1/2 to $2,000,000 per mile to build. And it's just a recent article from the Salt Lake Tribune about I-15, which was 00:16:45
published back in October 2002. Thousand 23 I believe, about the pricing. NS is doubling. 00:16:53
On this project and I noticed I know DLT does a really good job on pricing things out so. 00:17:01
About how to make your payments last longer, right? Where was that bridge that had a faulty? 00:17:08
The bridge that have faulty. 00:17:15
This is OK. I'm sorry. This is a bridge to an I-15 out of Salt Lake City going to Farmington. This is the Salt Lake. Are people 00:17:19
still driving on that? 00:17:22
Not really. I just say I hope not. You can keep going. So talking about how preservation lost, right, Right treatment, right 00:17:27
streets, right time. 00:17:32
In essence, that's what creative preservation is. What you're looking at doing is reducing the cost to do about six, six to one 00:17:37
savings ratio. 00:17:41
Everything has a life cycle. Pavement, it's just like skin. Take care of your skin, take take care of pavement, take care of the 00:17:46
exterior of your house and take care of the interior house. 00:17:50
Types of treatments, depending on the type of treatment, depending on the depth of the repair to be what we're trying to do. OK, 00:17:55
kind of coming here. What we're trying to do is we're trying to send the life of the pavement when we do pavement preservation, 00:18:02
pavement preservation programs where we have the original pavement condition and we're trying to hit the sweet spots of above 00:18:10
minor investments and treatments, spending about a dollar for preservation per square yard, $4.00 for rehab. 00:18:17
$25 per square, square yard for reconstruction. In essence, we don't want to be spending the red, we want to be spending the 00:18:25
green, or if that's the yellow. 00:18:29
Preventive maintenance concept. What we're trying to do for a pavement preservation program is keeping the This is just a time 00:18:37
curve where the pavement condition is based on age by itself. 00:18:43
Spending that $1.00, which is kind of a baseline, the numbers really aren't. 00:18:51
True representation, what they actually cost 30 years. What you're trying to do is you say I would rather spend $1.00 on 00:18:58
preventive maintenance here versus waiting to spend $6 later. And this is just based on age. 00:19:04
And then again, if you take a look at that strategy, what you want to do is you want to keep extending the life of that pavement 00:19:11
by spending that $1.00 hitting you at the $1.00 mark over and over again. Again, that's based on age. In real life, nothing, 00:19:18
nothing deteriorates just on age by itself. So it's really important to actually go out and assess what the payments, what your 00:19:25
payment condition is, and because there's a loss of other factors that play into your role. So you're taking that same concept and 00:19:31
putting it on. 00:19:38
In terms of relationship in relationship to. 00:19:46
What's the condition, for example, of your house has leaks in your house, but it's, you know, 3 year old house. You're going to 00:19:49
say, well, you know, I'm not going to wait to fix it until it becomes a 15 year old house. You'll fix those leaks early. You go on 00:19:54
to keep maintaining it. 00:19:58
This is when it comes to pavement, pavement management. This is a program that Utah dot and many dots and many other miss valleys 00:20:06
utilized for the dots. This is a slide from there asset management division. 00:20:13
Where they take they stay concrete a baseline on this thing. The baseline is a level service C. 00:20:21
60 about 65% of the condition of the pavement and doing preventive treatment multiple times over the years before it gets to the 00:20:28
65 before it gets to that 65 This chart represents that doing this type of pavement preservation program over the course of five 00:20:38
replacement cycles for replacement cycles they were they realized the savings of about 2.5 times. 00:20:48
So. 00:20:59
So again, now jumping right into the meat of the of what we've been doing. So in essence following the same type of principles of 00:21:02
pavement of, you know, taking care of what we own, taking care of the assets of the city's assets like many other assets that we 00:21:07
that the that's within the city pavement. 00:21:13
You know, we have a road map. Our first road map is, you know, going out there and inventorying our roads. So what do we have? Our 00:21:20
second step is now is doing an assessment. Our future steps that we haven't gone into is establishing baselines, for example, 00:21:26
quality of life. 00:21:32
The example that I showed you for the dot, the baseline was 65% of the condition of the pavement. That's they didn't want to go 00:21:39
any lower than that. Other cities, for example, the city that I was at before, we had a baseline of 70 on our stuff. There's a 00:21:45
there's other ways to do it, for example. 00:21:52
Depending on the type of Rd. for example, collector Rd. like Main Street would be, could be at one level now, while you have a 00:21:58
smaller Rd. like maybe a neighborhood Rd. for example, could be a different level. There's not there's, it really comes down to 00:22:04
when I say it's like the quality of life, the level of services to provide. Again, there's multiple factors that plays into that. 00:22:10
So that's why I say create the baselines that establish the baselines. I'm not going to be asking to establish those baselines 00:22:16
today. 00:22:22
But we're still. 00:22:28
Computing the data in essence with the consultants. And then what we would like to do is perform and come back to council. We're 00:22:31
going to present some standard baselines to say here's the here's some information, here's some standard baselines based on our 00:22:39
experience. And then use that to allow the council to make a good decision on which way we would like we would like to go. And 00:22:47
then from after we get the council members to feedback, then we'll run the run scenarios. 00:22:55
Engineers like nothing less or nothing more, excuse me, than running scenarios. I can ask my wife. So. So going back into the 00:23:03
inventory, we measure it. The number of streets that we surveyed was 606 different streets within the city. That's about 46 and 00:23:13
almost 46 1/2 miles of streets. The square footage, the square foot is 25.1 million square feet of surface and that's 84%. 00:23:23
Residential and 16% collector roads. This is a picture. 00:23:34
October 2023 where we had Horrocks which was our consult, which is our consultant which came out and drove the roads using the 00:23:37
high technology Lidar system that mapped out all the roads and took and it was in essence serving in the survey of the roads. The 00:23:45
nice thing about the Lidar that we're utilizing as well as not only was it taking information about the pavement, but we were also 00:23:52
collecting all the data from our what's within the right of ways in essence up to the sidewalk. 00:24:00
And with that we're, we're actually actually allowed us to go and get that information to our survey consultant and who's updating 00:24:08
our maps with real time information. So it was actually a money well spent because it also provides us a time saver as well. 00:24:16
So. 00:24:26
Here's a map representation. 00:24:28
Of what the streets are like here in Vineyard City. So pastor condition average of 8.4. The lowest is 4.4 with the mean of 8.3. 00:24:33
The in essence just relative. This is a rating between 1:00 and 10:00. Tending the best and one is the worst. On this I just 00:24:40
listed out the street names that had that were under 6 for example. Not saying that those are bad, but those are, you know, within 00:24:48
the low end of the spectrum itself. 00:24:55
On that, so we got 2000 W St. being the lowest which it goes into London. I'm not sure we care about that. So I'm sure of course 00:25:04
we do care. But as you can see, and the nice thing about this is it gives us this real time information. The other information we 00:25:11
provide to the consultant was 80 to the streets when the streets were built, the last time it was treated and so forth. And that's 00:25:19
what they're currently trying to, they're using the cab they're still crunching out the numbers for. 00:25:26
Here is a the pacer pavement evaluation criteria again 10 being the best. In essence, a newly constructed St. 00:25:36
One thing the worst being at Fell St. you know in essence not really fit for travel. 00:25:44
And as you can see on this chart, 4 is. I mean, when I say four, it was 4.3, so 4.4, almost 4 1/2. So between fair, fair and fair, 00:25:51
5:00 and 5:00 and 4:00. 00:25:57
Did you have a question? I was just going to say that they're still kind of pulling the data together. I was going to ask what 00:26:05
our. 00:26:10
You know must broken up. Rd. number was if we had something that was just failing and needs total repair. 00:26:15
I mean, we do have some other criteria like for example, the road that goes along the lake that has deficiencies, defects. 00:26:24
However, when you take into, when you do the the condition assessment evaluation and it takes a lot of things into factor. In 00:26:31
essence, it's not failed roads, but it's not a great Rd. either. What if you have a new road in the construction if it wasn't done 00:26:38
properly? So it's nothing off that center line. 00:26:45
Something that needs to be redone or would we put that more in like a patching kind of face? Yeah, that's a great question. And as 00:26:54
you can see, when we go into that, you'll see the different types of repair methods. 00:27:01
But some advert like that in essence you would come down to it would start, you take them to account when the road was built and 00:27:09
what the condition it is and then you would kind of you would consider the failed Rd. 00:27:15
So when we're looking at establishing a response, we're taking a lot of the other municipalities and a lot of other kind of more 00:27:22
of the vitamins terminology for roadway condition. 00:27:29
Still more on the engineering side is PCI, which is paper and condition index, and it's a simple translation of multiply by 10. 00:27:38
I'm sure there was someone who's making money off pace here or someone making money off PCI, and it was an easy conversion between 00:27:44
the two. So in essence, if you take our PACER scores, multiply by 10, that gives us. That gives you the PCI score, which is a 00:27:50
pavement condition index. As you can see here, it's relative. It has a different series of. 00:27:57
Ratings. 00:28:04
And the nice thing about PCI is it's kind of baseline off the ASTM, which is the American standards for testing materials. 00:28:06
Or, excuse me, American Society testing materials. 00:28:13
No. So with that being said, here's some examples of the different, like visual examples of what the pavement looks like depending 00:28:17
on the score. So for example. 00:28:22
With our city that grow being 4.4. 00:28:30
You can see like it's kind of in the middle, excuse me, the middle right picture with PCI 42, which is poor in essence, still 00:28:34
transversible, but again, it's one of those rows that you're. 00:28:41
That you would consider doing more than just a surface type treatment. 00:28:48
And then when we talk about priorities later and establishing baseline, that little diagram kind of shows like how we're going to 00:28:54
do how we would take those priorities is taking the PCI, the payment condition index, the dollar, the dollars available as well as 00:29:01
ADT, which in essence means how have raised that road used? Is it a road that you have one car driving on it a day or 1000 cars 00:29:08
driving a day that does make a difference. The percentages there is just a representation of what of how you would want to weigh 00:29:14
it again. 00:29:21
There's different ways. What we'll do is when we come to council, council members will provide a provide you our recommendations 00:29:29
of how we would like to do it and then of course go pace off that. 00:29:34
Talking about some repairs, I mean, when you when you look into types of like what's your condition scores, that kind of helps 00:29:41
kind of identify what type of treatment you would have to do. You know, going from great from the top down, the best, which is no 00:29:47
treatment down to okay, it's satisfactory. It's a minor cracking reduced Larry Sale. 00:29:54
Then we would, you know, when it's very chip CL four, that's when you do an overlay like if we have in essence you put another 00:30:01
layer of pavement on there. Again, when we get into that, that that's recommended maintenance. When you kind of get into it, you 00:30:07
really kind of see what is the, where is it going? What is it? What's really happening on there? And then you can kind of say, 00:30:14
because sometimes if you just do a overlay and then you may have some reflective cracking, like for example, the base underneath 00:30:20
it is not dwell, it's just going to. 00:30:26
The cracks are just going to reflect right up. 00:30:32
Then of course going down to the total reconstruction and then depending on what you're looking at and it's total reconstruction 00:30:36
is also called full depth replacement. 00:30:41
As well. 00:30:47
Here's just a summary of just those different types of implementations. And when you think about implementations, the biggest 00:30:49
thing that we'll be talking about later that really plays a big factor about what's the cost associated with that. And the cost 00:30:57
comes down to, and this is the representative cost and not actual cost, but there this is, this is provided by an area, area 00:31:04
testing material testing company. So it's you know quite pretty close to active where we would be paying. 00:31:11
It is costing us if you're doing cracks you like maintenance like crack seal, some seal cultures, you know, maybe seal culture 00:31:21
paying a dollar, $1.90 per square yard versus having to do a surface patch which is $45.00 a square yard and if we're doing some 00:31:27
rehab. 00:31:33
You were a 1 1/2 inch known, excuse me, known overlay a 27 square yard versus having to reconstructive reconstruction, which at 00:31:39
the lowest end of it is about $45.00 a square yard. So in essence what you're trying to do is you're trying to hit that $1.00 mark 00:31:47
versus paying that $6 six dollar mark representative trying to say what you know when the least amount of money in order to ensure 00:31:55
that we're getting the the longest longity of the pavement. 00:32:03
So we're going to take, we're taking that information, we provided the cost information to the consultant, the consultants going 00:32:12
through the numbers and making some small adjustments and we'll be making some adjustments to the actual condition index that we 00:32:20
picked up. And this is a sample of what will be provided from the consultant. So in essence, the consultant has where the where 00:32:27
the pavement conditions currently at, when it was built, when it was the last time it was treated, what type of treatment. 00:32:34
It received. 00:32:42
And using. 00:32:43
AI technology and some industry information variable to file some trend lines to say even though this road was built maybe five 00:32:46
years earlier than another Rd. it's deteriorating faster. It has to have some treatments and we're projecting that that road is 00:32:53
going to deter continue deteriorating faster, requiring more attendance, more attention to the sooner than a road that might be 00:33:00
older. 00:33:08
The nice thing about that is we're going to be able to take our previous pavement preservation program from an age. 00:33:16
Related. 00:33:25
Decision to a. 00:33:27
Condition related decision on that. So that and that's in essence that's where we're, that's where we're going towards. 00:33:30
Or everyone year versus whether our averages is like five years or should be about 5 years. The nurse probably a deeper under the 00:34:10
lying issue that would say, you know what, we might have to bite the bullet and do some more extensive repairs on that. So with 00:34:18
your consultant, are we going to have the information we need in time for the budget to make sure that we're budgeting We yeah, we 00:34:25
expect to be able to have apple product to provide to council. 00:34:32
Within the month. So yeah, so at the end of the day, what we want to do is we want to come up with pavement preservation plan. 00:34:40
Here's two samples. One is Salt Lake City six year pavement, pavement plan. Pavement plan, excuse me. Which in essence comes down 00:34:48
to like, hey, this is what we're proposing. So I'd like to use a similar type technology on their streets to say this is what our 00:34:55
current conditions of the streets are and this is how we're we're applying on. 00:35:02
Preserving our pavement over the next six years. There's a sample on the right hand side. 00:35:10
It was actually a 20 year schedule, hidden schedule and that was developed, that was developed my last city we put together A20 00:35:14
year schedule using the same type of you know, methodology, ginseng, OK, this is where our payments are. This is how the 00:35:23
conditions are. This is this is what we anticipate and every time we implemented a pavement schedule like a payment thing. 00:35:32
Year we went through all the rows. 00:35:42
And the deep down assessment of, you know this particular this one Rd. neighborhood may have mill and overlay slurry coat and chip 00:35:44
seal. 00:35:51
All all done because the whole Rd. itself didn't need to be milled and overlay like we didn't have to do like the deeper thing. So 00:35:59
we, you know, so it's not so this provides us that like a real good projection of our budget. And then when we actually 00:36:05
implemented, we were, we just, we took a really good deep dive. 00:36:11
When we were following this type of program, the budget for my lost city. 00:36:18
We went from $600,000 to $1.4 million a year and pavement preservation and. 00:36:25
Just in that in using this type of methodology, we were able to like get like 1 1/2 years worth done because, you know, we took 00:36:33
that extra stuff. The expectation too is that, you know. 00:36:39
Each year all like the roads would be kind of reevaluated. 00:36:47
And of course, this will also help us by when we get this established when we take over rows from developers, private developers 00:37:32
or any other private roles, for example, we can set a baseline of saying before we take the road, it has to meet this criteria 00:37:39
because this is the criteria that's the City Council has that upon. So they're not just going to hand us over their problem. 00:37:46
Exactly. That's great. And then we can we can reserve the right to do like a professional assessment. 00:37:53
So since we're holding ourselves to the same standard that we'd be asking other people to hold and be held to as well. 00:38:02
So that's everything. How long range of a plan is most appropriate in your mind? I expect us to probably do a 10 year plan 00:38:09
typically. Again, when it comes to budgeting purposes, anything past five years is more of a WAG in terms of budgeting. It's 00:38:16
always nice to say, okay, here's what we're projecting our long term again. My last city we did 20 years out. We had lost because 00:38:23
we wanted to do every single growth in the city. 00:38:31
And that's, you know, and the city was both in the 1800s. So there was a lot of lot of growth and a lot of old, old growth as 00:38:38
well. So that's why we went out 20 years and knowing that every five years we're pretty much updating it anyway. And there was 00:38:45
honestly when we were implementing this and we just skipped out here because we made the decision that's, yeah. Even though age 00:38:51
wise it was appropriate, but it was still in good condition. 00:38:58
As far as level of service, we had gone over the type of road and kind of what we were putting on it. You mentioned the chip and 00:39:07
the flurry and everything like that. 00:39:12
Is, is there any way, I mean, I felt like we have the most robust package we could get last time, but our residents came in and 00:39:20
Amber, you brought this up to me as well, but our residents came in and they in fact one of them's here and talked about skating 00:39:25
and. 00:39:31
Biking And I was just wondering, does this consider additional layers that make it easier for them to bike or skate on without 00:39:36
shredding up their tires? And what is the additional cost of smoothing out a road like? That's two things to consider. One's the 00:39:46
cost of actually doing it and the other aspect is the friction because in order to, you know. 00:39:57
Efficient disengage energy being transferred from the car. 00:40:08
Changing Kinect energy to their thermal energy and moving forward. And the last version that there is on the road, that does pose 00:40:11
some problems for some, some cars. So what we have to do is we have to be considered in terms of if we reduce the friction course, 00:40:18
like for example, DLT roads, they do multiple layers and the top layers of first course layer, which is the wearable layer. And 00:40:25
for rows, there are, you know, for for DLT does it for all the rows because they're typically building rows that are 45 miles and, 00:40:33
and high. 00:40:40
Speed limit on that as we go, as we go down on our excuse me, as we reduce the friction factor, we're reducing that type. I'm not 00:40:47
saying that it's necessarily needed, but that's just a consideration that we would have to make sure that we're not we're playing 00:40:54
that good balance on there's there's another option that comes down to cost is for example, bikers, skaters, skateboarders, if 00:41:02
they're if the bike lane is. 00:41:09
The smoother layer, smoother layer and then the car travel lane is more coarse layer than what you're looking at is a price 00:41:17
difference because in essence you're paving twice the same mile is being paid twice with two different types of layers. I think it 00:41:24
might. I mean, I'm sure they can assess that as they're going through it, but it might be good for us to have just because it's 00:41:30
been a public commentary that we can. Yeah, we can definitely run through that scenario as well. Just to say this is here's here's 00:41:36
what the. 00:41:42
Cost option would be OK of course. 00:41:49
What the There's a cost option, then we'll also discuss with them on what. 00:41:53
The difference between repair like maintenance cycles as well OK. 00:42:00
Any other questions from the council? Yeah, I have a question. So you want to assess every Rd. in the city every year or so? You 00:42:05
know when I say every year, our plan, pavement preservation plan would be due to the four where it gets. 00:42:13
Treated that it's validated so just because we have the plans to say based on a computer generated generated model this is what it 00:42:23
is. But of course we're going to do a self evaluation again for a day like this on the ground about. 00:42:30
Valuation and to ensure that, for example, a road is we're not missing a red flag from another Rd. The intent is to drive. 00:42:38
Visual inspection and just driving around the roads, slowly driving down the other roads to see if there's any kind of visual 00:42:53
cracks or visual distresses that would, you know, that would indicate a deeper line problem like for example. 00:43:00
Any types like, you know, this is what we're looking for visual distresses like this say, oh, hey, this, this wasn't there last 00:43:10
year. And so this might be an indicator because we wouldn't want to spend money doing preservation on a road that is like, you 00:43:17
know, it's coming down and then miss out on an opportunity to actually do a rehab on a road that really needs it as well. So it's 00:43:23
it's just a good biking on kind of like ace internal audits validation check. 00:43:30
I'd be intrigued by an opportunity to go out there and look at it ourselves and sort of see the difference. Yeah, that'd be great 00:43:37
though. So this might sound weird, but so on an average you talk, obviously it's going to make a big difference on how how highly 00:43:44
used the road is, but what do they find the. 00:43:50
The preservation, like how many years is it? 00:43:58
Like, how often will you have to do it to have optimum, Optimum. Yeah, I mean results. Yeah. Let me see that. That's just like on 00:44:02
an average. Yeah, Average when you do this, your rows are lasting about 25 years. 00:44:08
Out Sir. Like for example the slide shows the world being about 50 years, about 50 years on there. Again, it depends on the type. 00:44:16
It doesn't depend on the type of Rd. 00:44:21
The type of Rd. that's being built in, of course, there's lots of, there's other factors like for example, the sub base and the 00:44:29
sub base. And sometimes I've had roads that were built like three years out three years. And the reason that is being replaced is 00:44:37
because, you know, no offense to our water manager over there, but they have water line breaks and takes out the road. 00:44:45
But I mean that's happened and then when it comes down to it, and that's kind of almost off topic, but at the same time, topic 00:44:54
utilities are within the row, especially water utilities. And I've seen 1/2 inch water line take out a collector road and it's a 00:45:02
big pain to get that fixed. And I've had it. I've had an internal crew of 2525 streets personnel with the with the four arrays 00:45:10
equipment like front end loaders, excavators. 00:45:19
And we're still down two weeks on that Bros trying to get back up and running. So and then that's I said that's that was 1/2 inch 00:45:27
wire line. And so ensuring part of roadway health to me is utility health as well. 00:45:34
OK, thank you. No, no problem. 00:45:42
OK. Any other questions from the Council? 00:45:45
All right. Thank you so much, Missy. We appreciate it. 00:45:50
All right, we're going to go ahead and move into our public comments. This is the time for you to come and address the council 00:45:54
about things that are not currently on the agenda. If you want to come and talk to us, please come to the podium, state your name 00:46:00
and where are you from, and then we'll go ahead and take your comments and you'll have about two minutes to speak if there's a 00:46:06
group of you that wants to speak together and make sure that you have one person to address the commentary. So come on up and we 00:46:12
are ready. 00:46:18
I'll go first, sorry. I have an appointment I'm going to go to after this. 00:46:36
I'm I'm just here just to encourage. 00:46:41
Thank you. And, and I'm just, I'm just here to encourage openness in, in our government. 00:46:49
I believe we need more open meetings where we can talk about things and and talk about things in a, in a, in a planned out way 00:46:56
thing, things that we can talk about even as a group of citizens to have input. 00:47:03
And we can get away from these really short announced meetings. 00:47:12
That that, that none of us. 00:47:16
You might have a chance and but I bet you the guys didn't even read the 199 pages that came out with a 24 day notice. 00:47:20
That really struck me as being very incorrect. 00:47:28
Very very wrong process. Almost, almost. 00:47:32
A disrespect to the citizens to give us a chance to evaluate and I believe the government should be of the people. 00:47:37
And I say that with as much kindness as I can. 00:47:45
I did ask a while back about some figures and, and someone on the band chair promised me that I would get that. And I'm not sure 00:47:49
how many weeks or months that's been, but I, I, I have not received that. You know what, what issue I'm talking about. 00:47:57
And and I'd still like that information. 00:48:06
I think as a citizen I can ask for that. 00:48:09
I don't think God does too much to ask. 00:48:12
I think we need more open meetings. 00:48:17
I I think everything should be open. 00:48:21
When I was on the Council. 00:48:24
I bought a piece of equipment. You'll have this. I bought a piece of equipment from Mayor Gammon. OK. 00:48:26
I had legally I needed to go find the value of that. 00:48:34
Piece of equipment. 00:48:39
So I could clear my name that it wasn't a gift. 00:48:43
That I wasn't owned, OK. 00:48:47
I knew that rule because I've been trained as a Councilman down the Saint George. 00:48:50
And I knew that I could not receive any gift. 00:48:55
Above a certain level. 00:49:00
And I think we need to understand those rules really well. And if we violate that, we need to come forward and say so. 00:49:02
I actually believe in open government. 00:49:10
I'm going to, I'm going to keep pushing for this because we are citizens and we ought to have input. 00:49:16
And every council member here ought to be heard, Every single one of you. 00:49:23
And, and I believe that strongly. Thank you for your time. Thank you. 00:49:29
Nip of the Ray Hallway Rd. 00:49:44
I want to follow up with Keith. 00:49:48
Started talking about the openness. I have a suggestion for the council if it's all right. First of all, I want to, I want to once 00:49:51
again say I really appreciated the efforts that were made at the first, first meeting after the new year. We had a lot of comments 00:49:57
there. And then you actually had a had a working session where you introduced the topic in a situation where you know in the 00:50:04
working agenda, working portion of the agenda where no action could be taken or you actually have people come in and present 00:50:10
topics. 00:50:16
And introduce the idea to the council and explain things and it allowed you time to. 00:50:23
Ask questions and so forth without having to be pressured by taking a vote. I thought that was an excellent start. Excellent 00:50:30
start. 00:50:34
I like to recommend that we, you know, that you continue with that and so that any, any new topic that comes before the Council 00:50:39
ought to start in a working session. 00:50:44
Before it proceeds to the business agenda where a vote is taken. 00:50:49
And at least that way that the public would have a couple of weeks to, you know, to digest what they've heard, lobby the council 00:50:53
how they want to do and, and, and you'd have a better chance of having a more informed citizenry when it comes time for your vote. 00:51:01
I think that would be very helpful. 00:51:10
And the cases where there's a public hearing required, I think the additional step of, you know, starting the starting with a 00:51:13
working session as before, but the second meeting going to public hearing where you'd actually take comments and you have a 00:51:20
chance. And then and then not put it on as a business item, but as a separate public hearing. So that so that indeed those 00:51:27
comments can be other comments can be taken and absorbed and. 00:51:35
By the council and thought about and so that you come back next session as a business item. You can then act upon that item. I 00:51:43
know that spread it out a little bit takes it across three sessions, but I think that that would open up the process in a way that 00:51:50
the public would better understand what's happening and better appreciate the efforts that you're making to, to help them stay 00:51:57
informed and appreciate the gravity of the situations and so forth and understand also. 00:52:05
And I also along with that, I appreciate. 00:52:12
You having a city attorney speak about sometimes the differences between the roles that you have to fill. So so I understand 00:52:16
there's a difference between the between executive and legislative type things and you sometimes a force of both a certain way and 00:52:22
explanation. That's really helpful. So that's what I'd like to ask the council to do. Thank you. All right, thank you. 00:52:29
All right. We'll go ahead and close the public comment. I'll just address a few things. David, thank you for bringing that up. I 00:52:40
hope that you've noticed on our agenda that we're doing, we are continuing that to introduce the topic and we're doing the work 00:52:46
sessions today. We talked about two of those things and trying to make it so that we are having those discussions and then 00:52:52
bringing them back to let you engage and have additional time. So I'm I'm glad that that is working. 00:52:58
We also feel this way, this need to have people. 00:53:06
Get the most ability to present their voice to us. Last year we did four town halls. This year we'll be doing that again. Last 00:53:10
year we did two community manager meetings. This year we'll be doing that again. And hopefully we'll continue to facilitate those 00:53:16
conversations where you do have the ability to talk in a different manner than we do when we're conducting business. And then 00:53:22
providing those extra, extra meetings where we present the topic so that you can come and meet with us individually if you need 00:53:28
to. 00:53:34
He didn't bring up something that hopefully, Eric, we can touch base with Josh Daniels and make sure that he gets the information 00:53:42
that he needs on the RDA. 00:53:45
I will. I don't know. Jake, did you have anything that you wanted to? OK, I'll take about one or two minutes. 00:54:24
I first want to apologize to the council and the mayor. I know Jamie helped us work together and put together a special City 00:54:33
Council procedure and process has never been in place before and. 00:54:39
Honestly, we wanted to make sure that that was open so that everyone could participate. I know we threw a ton of different dates 00:54:47
out there and it was not our intent to. 00:54:52
Rush through that I know it took a while to work through the code and I felt like it came off bad on my part and I just wanted to 00:54:58
make sure that moving forward Sarah and I want to try and do those as open and give many weeks notice on on those and also be more 00:55:04
open to never do want to thank staff for doing. 00:55:11
Coming on a Saturday and on a weekend, but that special, special sessions were really good for us. I want to report back on the 00:55:18
two special sessions that we had on Saturday and Monday. Sarah and I learned a lot just opening it up. Whether they voted for us 00:55:25
or they didn't. It was really helpful for the amount of citizens that came and we just got to got to learn. 00:55:32
Also just a return and thank you from the department heads from the off site yesterday. You know, I just want to apologize for not 00:55:40
understanding that it was a budgetary meeting. 00:55:46
And also just implore like I don't, I don't know why we haven't gotten the budget like the 2023 exact, but you know, when we asked 00:55:52
for that in December, we weren't sworn in yet. And, and going over a budget, we've got to go over the exact of where things went 00:56:00
on each budget and really touch it. And we weren't prepared yesterday for that. And I don't know why we were. It's usually a best 00:56:07
practice when we when. 00:56:14
Certification goes in that in good faith, they give that information out in December. 00:56:22
So me and Sarah need to get that so that we can go over on a vendor level. 00:56:29
Basis on the budget cuz we we still don't have that and it would really help us to prepare for the budget. 00:56:38
I don't know if that takes a vote from us to get that. 00:56:43
Or. 00:56:48
So in December 6th when we got sport, when we got certified, I just sent over a line item of all vendors paid for the year for 00:57:27
2023 just to understand where all the money is going. You know you have a budget, then you actually have actuals right of like 00:57:33
what it was and broke it. If we could break it down by department so you could actually see how much is going where then it then 00:57:39
when you do the budget, you're like, OK, I get what what we spend on this technology, that type of stuff. 00:57:45
In our procurement software, it should have something pretty deep like that. It's usually an almost all of them, but. 00:57:53
So I don't want to take too much time on that. So hold on one second because I am asking for clarity for a second. 00:58:00
I guess I would just request that we have clarity on what it is you're looking for, because the budget itself, as Mayor pointed 00:58:10
out, is available to everyone and anyone on the website that goes into pretty detailed line items for each department of what was 00:58:19
approved last year, a list of all the vendors that the city has paid in 2023 or fiscal year 2023 was sent to you. 00:58:27
The specific dollar amounts for each of those just takes wedding through and making sure that we're giving you information that is 00:58:36
publicly available that there's certain elements of that expense list. 00:58:42
That has privacy associated with it. That's just a total dollar amount. That's fine. I don't need like who it's paying for, but 00:58:49
just a list of vendors is inadequate. We need to know like. 00:58:54
How much each vendor was paid? Like a total dollar amount? 00:59:01
I don't know why. 00:59:05
Just a little, I think that information I. 00:59:08
I think there's a difference between budget information, which is public and is all there. 00:59:12
And certain expense information that is for certain vendors proprietary because they're bidding in a competitive environment, 00:59:17
right, But for a City Council member. So I think for the information that's proprietary, what might be best is to give you access 00:59:23
but not. 00:59:29
The documents themselves, and I'm sure Eric can arrange for that and that you can go through that information. There's other 00:59:36
information that we've talked about offline and I don't. 00:59:43
Know that we need to bring it up in an open meeting, but there are. 00:59:50
There's some history to it and some personal reasons where we had to verify and make sure that it was appropriate to give you 00:59:54
access to that. I think we're to the point where we understand well, it's actually just not vendor, it's all vendors. Just 01:00:01
understanding like, hey, this is helpful from a procurement standpoint. That's kind of my background in government procurement. So 01:00:07
it really helps me understand what are all the vendors that we use and how and. 01:00:13
The total dollar amount, OK, so the last thing, the next thing I wanted to go through is. 01:00:22
I think you got an update from Eric on it. And then what they'll do is they'll gather that data and they'll send it out and then 01:01:01
they'll talk about the retreat and they'll do that all together. So thank you. Can we, can we post that? It's called a Qualtrics 01:01:07
CSV file. Can we post the raw data? They make that shareable to a public file. I don't know. We'll go back and look at what that 01:01:14
is. You know more about it because you work there so. 01:01:20
We'll we'll find out and we'll, we'll come back to that. And then my last thing is. 01:01:29
What I learned from citizens in the and Sarah was there as well, but the need for more public comments. I did send over an agenda 01:01:34
of things that I would like to work with in overcoming some of the cities issues and problems in the last couple years and you 01:01:40
know I put a lot of thought I. 01:01:47
And quite frankly, some prayer are not dividing the city, but being public and trying to come together to solve issues. And me and 01:01:55
Sarah are going to be sending an invitation to you guys to, to do more in the future of those. But we want to give you 3 or 4 01:02:02
weeks advance. We want to allow you to choose different days and times, especially with the, if you listen to me, there's probably 01:02:10
six or seven main topics that the group came together on. And we just don't want to do this alone. 01:02:18
We would rather do this as an open public setting. So that's my request. I can I comment or ask. So I every year we set out a 01:02:26
scheduled when our meetings are and that's what's published on the website and that's what we go by. So if we're going to start 01:02:32
doing extra meetings, I want to make sure that it's something that's also advanced notice, not just three weeks in advance. I want 01:02:38
this to be something as a council, we're choosing dates together. So it was very frustrating for me how this first one went down 01:02:45
and I appreciate your apology. 01:02:51
But it was literally a week that we had canceled council. And so it had been great for my schedule because I was going to be out 01:02:58
of town. I had a lot of celebrations going on that week. And so I don't want this to just be this. 01:03:05
I can agree with that. Well, and the other thing that I'll just bring again is that we actually do have a schedule for town halls 01:03:44
and we will take the time to collaborate on those meetings. I think it might be more beneficial if we don't duplicate those as 01:03:52
well. And so maybe as you look to the future and you want to hold a meeting as we collaborate on town halls, that might be a 01:03:59
better venue for some of it than holding meetings in the regard that. 01:04:07
OK. Will you, will that be on the website you know? 01:05:56
Can we add it? It's a public key. 01:06:00
No, but our council will have access to it. 01:06:04
Yeah, that would be great. I would love to have access to that. So I think that's one facet and I think we are meeting the public 01:06:07
comment up. 01:06:11
And then if it's stuff that you guys want to talk about, I'm more than happy to distribute it to me, to you. I think that another 01:06:50
thing more than anything, I can't emphasize enough, we all want the same thing. I want people to be able to come and speak and 01:06:55
talk about issues that are real and important to them. So do the other council members that aren't speaking who are sitting on the 01:07:00
bench. 01:07:05
And we didn't even sit up high. We sat down in a circle and just said, let's go around the room and try and solve problems. And 01:08:16
you did say, Hey, there's going to be some town halls or whatever, which is awesome. I think us being at those town halls and kind 01:08:23
of going around in the circle on these. But I sent over to agenda of some of the items was like, hey, we ran on on overcoming a 01:08:30
few of these problems to Eric and and to the mayor and, and we, we, we feel that in thinking about it, it was like we just we. 01:08:38
Solving these problems in a public way would be. Is probably the only way that we can do it. 01:08:45
To be honest with you, and I don't agree with that because some of the issues that you and I have talked about, you said that 01:08:50
you'd be OK without doing it in a public meeting, I think meeting with the parties. 01:08:56
And the and the and, and the city, maybe the parties could meet privately and overcome it if the mayor and, and the and the city 01:09:04
was able to do it in a private way between the parties. And maybe it could be solved that way. But I, I did hold away, don't want 01:09:11
to meet without the parties and speak for them. It put it puts me in a bad situation. But I also think some of these issues are 01:09:18
public in nature and this is the public's business. 01:09:25
That's why I struggle with that. Like I honestly, it's not to it's not to embarrass or anything, but it's. 01:09:34
Sarah and I or another council member, either of you guys, I'm grateful that we do have a right to try to be as transparent as 01:12:32
possible so that we can, there's sometimes a feeling like we didn't solve this problem or that and we ran on transparency. I can 01:12:40
be attacked in a public way because I am a public official. You know, whether my employment at Qualtrics or owning the Academy of 01:12:47
Science, you know, it was a very public thing. If someone were to attack me, I, I, I would hope that. 01:12:55
Marty, did you have anything that you wanted to add or say on that last point with how you want to see these things move forward? 01:13:36
Do you feel comfortable with what I said? More than anything, I feel like we've come to have a consensus of feelings about the 01:13:42
situation, but I don't feel like we've come two steps on how to. 01:13:49
Like, I'm not sure what Jacob's intent is from here. I would say this is my protocol and implementation plan. I have received the 01:13:55
agenda that he has spent. I will send that out to our staff. I will show you. I will talk to them about where these discussions 01:14:03
should be had. They will share that with the council. The council can make those determinations. We can say where things should 01:14:10
fall in line with town halls. 01:14:18
And we can move forward with talking about our regular schedule and our town halls and see if we can fit them in our agenda 01:14:26
because that seems reasonable. And then? 01:14:30
They can present the plan to the council and if there's disagreement then we would go back to the situation where you would have 01:14:36
to decide if you wanted to show up for any additional special meetings. Is that something that you're, do you agree with that, 01:14:42
Jake? Are you going to try to still push through and have a meeting even if. 01:14:49
You want to get two people attending? 01:14:56
I gave over a list of different topics. My hope in that because we are a public body, you know, it's not like a family where 01:15:00
mistakes are made in a private way. I also don't want to destroy the brand of Vineyard City or anything like that, but also. 01:15:10
I think the council could potentially meet with some of the people. Some of the people don't don't want to come in person for fear 01:15:20
of retribution, but the vast majority of them do. 01:15:27
To kind of overcome this, I can walk each council person through why and how I believe it should be done. If, if the council 01:16:07
members say, hey, let's do this privately and we can resolve this in a, in a closed session and we legally can do that. I mean, 01:16:15
and some of these and, and we feel like, hey, this problem has been solved, then then yeah, let's, let's do that in a way. 01:16:23
But but. 01:16:32
But also there's there's also the citizens right to know and I struggle with that. 01:16:35
Well, I don't disagree with you that the citizens want information, and I understand that. I just want to make sure that we're 01:16:39
respecting the purpose of this council and respecting the purpose how we serve Vineyard, and I don't want it to. 01:16:46
For lack of a better term, I don't want this to be like a circus where we're jumping around and. 01:16:54
Jake, I support you. I want public comment. I love how I'm looking forward to listening to your two meetings, but I want to make 01:17:32
sure that we're going through the right processes. And I don't want it to be a division every time you want to have a meeting. So 01:17:38
I'd appreciate it if we could move forward, if staff can take care of coordinating with this and if you could pass it on. I'd 01:17:43
appreciate if we took a little time to make sure that we're doing this the right way. Yeah, and, and Jamie did a great or Eric 01:17:49
sent over an e-mail and started. 01:17:55
Jamie was copied on it. 01:18:02
And I just wanted to be very public and deliberate of of those things of that We're working to solve things as a council. 01:18:04
So, yeah, thanks. If you can send me your agenda, I don't. What I'll do is I'm going to actually have staff work through it and 01:18:15
then I will have it distributed. I think that if we keep it through that process, it'll be better. I mean, Jake, feel free to send 01:18:21
it to whomever you want, but as far as my process, I'm going to have it go through stuff and then I'll have them disseminated out. 01:18:28
Mayor, can I offer a few thoughts about that? Thank you. I'll try to be brief with them. 01:18:36
I've Jake, I've seen your list of topics that you want to have the, you know, each meeting on a different topic, and then I've 01:18:42
seen the schedule you put together for one of the proposed meetings. 01:18:48
I have those are very rough draft by the way. That's fine. I understand that. I I think talking generally about them, you know it, 01:18:56
it's probably hard for the public to hear this conversation because a lot of it's in code and what you've asked for our meetings 01:19:03
where you want to talk about things like the proposed island on Utah Lake and. 01:19:11
People that you believe to have been harmed in that process and to. 01:19:20
The way you've characterized the meeting as you're calling them witnesses and that you want to question them and the language in 01:19:25
the request feels very much to me like a courtroom and not a council meeting. And so I councils are not courts and council members 01:19:35
are not judges. And I don't think it's appropriate for the council to engage in that kind of business in its council meetings. 01:19:44
There is another aspect to some of the proposed topics where they feel more like campaign events than they do council meetings. 01:19:54
You're an elected official, everybody on the council is an elected official. It's entirely appropriate for you to hold campaign 01:20:02
events, to liaise with your constituents, to get their input, get their feedback. But there is a difference between when the 01:20:10
council gathers to conduct city business and when you are on your own time, gathered to do. 01:20:17
Campaign events and campaign business. It's not my place to tell you what your campaign priorities should be or. 01:20:26
To say don't run on this or don't run on that or or that. But it was no secret that a part of your campaign was. 01:20:34
Targeted and directed toward your thoughts about people that are on the council. I don't think it's appropriate to bring campaign 01:20:43
conversations forward with council business when there's no action on the horizon for the council that relates it all to those 01:20:51
issues. So I'll just put that thought out there that I think where there's no city business involving those things, it's a more 01:20:59
productive role of the City Council look ahead and to work on topics that are in the future. 01:21:07
And then I think you do have to draw a line as a council between. 01:21:14
What are campaign events and what are council business? And then what is within the council's jurisdiction and function and being 01:21:19
a court and looking outside of city issues really isn't your purview and you get into really dangerous spaces when you start doing 01:21:25
that. 01:21:31
Yeah, so I apologize for my, I think I wrote that at like 11:00 at night. So and I did use the word testify and I meant more speak 01:21:38
to or questions. So definitely not cross examining or anything like a court. So you've you've used the word testify in 01:21:45
conversations with people as well. It wasn't a one time use. I use that a lot. Like hey, come tell me like tell me your testimony. 01:21:53
Like what do you and I apologize for that. I I shouldn't use that word or speak towards this or what Not to your point though. 01:22:00
The speaking don't say testimony there, there are action items that the council could take and would take in terms of putting 01:22:09
great policy together on the legislative side, a ton of great legislative side and I know me and you have worked on and I think 01:22:16
that would be appropriate if there are legislative items you want to bring forward that would be controls, yes. 01:22:23
Let's heal wounds. What do we need to do? Sometimes, Sometimes. 01:22:34
People just need to talk to know that we don't hate them and we can solve the problem, you know, with walk our way and and going 01:22:38
around and doing that with other businesses or sorry, governments. It's bringing people together, having them come in and talk and 01:22:45
just saying, hey, thank you. We apologize that that happened. But also at the end, I think there's things where they go. 01:22:52
Hey, what are some suggestions that you that we can put in place as a council so that this doesn't happen again or that or or some 01:23:00
things that that we could learn from that in terms of policy? 01:23:05
I didn't know me and you have met on Hey, these are some things that should be in our code to protect us from from duplicating all 01:23:10
of those types of things. But also it's looking ahead so that our city isn't drugged through this event ever again and property 01:23:16
owners aren't either. But also, I think it's a building relationship exercise. I don't think this is an anger thing. And I think 01:23:22
speaking this out, I don't think any of the people that would come would come in with vengeance and be like an anger thing. These 01:23:28
are good people. 01:23:34
Areas where you think people went wrong and you want them to hear from those who feel wrong. That to me seems more like a 01:24:15
courtroom setting or a campaign setting and not City Council business to remediate that is is more of a core thing or it's not. 01:24:22
You're saying, OK, if by remediation you mean put in legislative or policy controls around certain things, sure, that's your work. 01:24:29
You can do that work. 01:24:35
And doing that in a council setting is totally appropriate if you're bringing people in just to give voice to their grievances and 01:24:42
to target people. I I don't think that is the council's business. And I don't think that relates What? Yeah, and I would add, I 01:24:49
would add and close this discussion. I'm going to close this discussion, but I would add that. 01:24:56
Your commentary on policy, procedure, presenting facts and setting record are things that we can move forward on this. 01:25:05
We have a plan to go ahead and categorize these things. We will do those things. Those discussions will come back to the council. 01:25:13
And so I'm, I'm grateful for the conversation. Thank you for the clarity. I'm going to go ahead and let Amber have our time 01:25:18
because it's been almost 30 minutes. 01:25:24
All right. The legislative session is getting close to ending. There are nine days left and over 900 bills. I'm just going to 01:25:30
review a few from LPC. 01:25:36
The two gravel pit bills haven't made any movement, SB172 and HB502, but we do want to watch those because we do not want to be 01:25:41
required to have a gravel pit in our community. 01:25:46
Yeah. And maybe we can go into that a little bit more. The provision would be that. 01:25:53
We would have to go find gravel for developers and correct me if I'm stating this wrong, anybody that knows this better than I do, 01:25:58
but that could even mean that we would have to find it within our city and then it could become a gravel pit site. But then we 01:26:06
would have to give to our developers and depending on Jamie, do you have more on this? Do you know anything about this on the on 01:26:13
the ground? It looks like you had a moment. I was going to look at one other thing, but I do. I am familiar with the legislation. 01:26:20
Preempts city's land use rights as it relates to what are called critical industry. That's legislative speak for gravel pits and 01:26:28
extraction. That would happen within city boundaries. And their goal and intent is to make it cheaper for the people and the 01:26:36
industry in Utah. But then it could go to other places too, so that preemption could get out of control. So we really don't want 01:26:43
that. There may be a time that we have to have the council call your elected officials. 01:26:51
And we'll let you know. 01:26:58
OK. HB 507 construction amendments, the stormwater where the main issues is that if stormwater permit, stormwater permits are 01:27:00
automatically issued if the municipality does not issue the permit within three days, which is concerning to send that out of our 01:27:07
purview. I believe the league is speaking with the sponsor of that bill to review and make some changes. There were multiple 01:27:14
homelessness bills that we've been following along with. 01:27:20
The one that's concerning is HP 3/14. 01:27:28
Reduces a medication fund. 01:27:31
It really puts a massive administrative burden on cities. 01:27:34
Let's see what else did I want to mention here. 01:27:40
With the SP168 modular housing, it looks like the league is successfully moving towards partnership rather on preemption and 01:27:45
looking for our affordable housing in our first homes combining the right products and the financing tools. 01:27:52
And then let me see. 01:28:01
Then HB 491 data privacy amendments, this was discussed by Chris Bramwell and this relates to well and do you mind if I go back to 01:28:06
the Fizz? 01:28:10
The fizz and the are you also talking about the P tech? So just across the state they have been talking about zoning preemption 01:28:17
and one of the compromises they came up with were these different financial tools to kind of help first time, first phones, first 01:28:23
home buyers and making that more affordable. 01:28:28
Send e-mail you sent. 01:29:13
Yeah, and it's just a link. You can find it in Amber's e-mail, but you can also find it just on LPC and it's a daily call. You can 01:29:16
sign in and they can give you the daily update for what's happening at the legislature. So just for clarity, the PTS is the public 01:29:22
Treasurer's Investment Fund and then the phase of the first home investment zone, Yes. 01:29:28
All right. Privacy, there's a, it's been interesting to kind of hear about how there are policies and things in place, but they're 01:29:36
not being used. So couple years already into making some of these privacy plans. We'll keep working with Chris Bramwell, our 01:29:43
planning Commissioner on that and create a robust package for that. Let's see. Yeah. And right now we've been working with 01:29:50
Representative Moss on his privacy bill and that's been going really well. So hopefully as our privacy comes out, their privacy 01:29:57
bill comes out and it coincides together. 01:30:04
And the way you collect data and data sharing and really creating a bus package for that. So we'll see that coming forward. Again, 01:30:44
you got a little presentation of that in January and we'll see it coming forward on our next agendas. 01:30:51
Yes. I also wanted to mention something SB185, the residential building inspection, which authorizes the building permit to 01:30:59
holders to use a third party for building permits rather than going through the city if there is a potential delay, which is 01:31:04
another. 01:31:10
Situation where they're taking you out of our purview. Yeah. And Chris has been working on that and so has our team and staff. So 01:31:17
we're going to keep watching that and make sure that we at least bring Vineyards voice to the table and say how we want it to fit 01:31:23
into our city so that we can make sure our inspections create quality product in our city. And I think to clarify, that's about 01:31:28
the inspection process, not the permitting process, not the permitting. 01:31:34
Let's see then the Community Garden will be opening up their applications next month, so I will try to keep you updated on that. 01:31:43
And then the bike Commission met but did not have a quorum yesterday, but they have some exciting things they're working on. 01:31:49
They're going to be setting up their goals for the year. And then they have a connectivity analysis they got from Bike Utah, which 01:31:54
they can evaluate and compare with our active transportation plan and. 01:32:00
Make our plans more robust. Everything is add just really quickly to that. And they've indicated potentially having a special 01:32:06
session where they would talk about the priorities you're talking about. They wanted to list projects that they would like to see 01:32:12
as part of the the budget. Knowing that the council's going through the budget process, this would be an appropriate time for them 01:32:18
to provide their recommendations. 01:32:23
I got to attend a meeting. It was the Huntsman Schrett. I always want to see that wrong. 01:32:32
It was really cool. We sat down with quite a few people from quite a few different groups, but Huntsman showed some very raw 01:32:40
preliminary designs and shared some of their goals and plans and it was really interesting. The good news is they are talking 01:32:48
about getting shovels into the ground sometime this year to start that project and you know, as soon as they give us real 01:32:55
information, that's not as wrong. 01:33:03
I'll have more to bring to the council. Perfect. It's really exciting. Thank you so much. We're so happy that you could be there. 01:33:10
And they're they're very excited about coming together and working with us and they're very set and determined on making sure that 01:33:18
they can get things moving this year. Like Marty said, that was very well and one thing they they talked a lot about wanting to be 01:33:25
a part of our community fully and participating in things that weren't just for their facility. They want to make sure that. 01:33:33
They're partnering with Vineyard in a way that benefits us. 01:33:40
So it was, it was really cool to hear. It sounds like we could have some fun things that come out of it. Yeah. And I've been a 01:33:43
great regional partner partner as well. Just to add, Eric has actually been going and setting up meetings with our cities around 01:33:48
the valley to help that those relationships become very strong. So thank you for that. Sarah, did you have anything that you 01:33:54
wanted to add? 01:34:00
Yeah, I just, there's, there's a big concern among the citizens that background is really as clean as it's supposed to be for that 01:34:07
building to be built where it's built and the deep levels of its foundation. So that's a big concern that people aren't going to 01:34:13
be really excited about until that come forward. And they, they did talk about doing additional testing and making sure, because 01:34:18
it's just as important to them. They, I mean with everything they work on, they want to make sure that where they're setting up is 01:34:24
so. 01:34:30
And each of them were given the report that it's some of the cleanest dirt in the whole state. So that was so rewarding to hear at 01:35:12
this meeting. And so as we go through, Sarah, we'll try to keep you updated. And any information that we receive, we will make 01:35:20
sure that the council has complete access to that. That's what you can report back to the citizens is the information that we're 01:35:27
given. And also on the Department of Environmental Quality, I believe you can access the records that says it's been cleared. 01:35:34
To the standard that it needs to be for whatever purpose. Julian, I can reach out to the property owners and see if they can 01:35:42
provide us like that specific link to where residents can go and let's do that information. Eric, did you have something to add? 01:35:48
Go ahead. I would just add that. 01:35:54
That there is a beyond a wealth of information on the DEQ website. I spent a couple hours today looking for these very documents 01:35:56
and I started reading through the reporting is super rigorous and the whole entire Geneva site is part of a large clean up plan. 01:36:04
And then it's broken down into tiny little pieces and each of those have dozens and dozens of reports. So it's when I when I 01:36:12
reached out to Flagborough to have them provide us with the report. 01:36:20
Or the few reports. 01:36:28
They also lamented a little that it's hard to find on their site, but that we'll, we'll work with the EQ and, and kind of get the 01:36:31
compilation of those because it is a series of monitoring and very detailed monitoring type reports that lead to certificates that 01:36:39
that clear that land for development. And so I just wanted to point out that it's not a, a simple pull a page out and here you go. 01:36:47
It's, it's, it took a ton of of effort and time and reporting to. 01:36:56
For some updates, our Infrastructure conversations have been going well. We had a robust well. We had a robust, robust plan with 01:37:35
our council where we went with our staff and our council and we talked about opening up all of our transportation across our city 01:37:42
line and crossover our rail. And we did this through the mag process and it was a really good thing. We got prioritized on the 01:37:49
list for some of our roads that are coming in. And as a mag body, we have sent those forward and that's been a really great 01:37:56
process. 01:38:03
Still working through the process and. 01:38:54
If we, if we need letters, we'll, we'll reach out. And if we need you guys to call our representatives, I will, I will let you 01:38:58
know. So one thing I want to, I want to talk about our 12th North bridge to not go through MAG. 01:39:04
Well, as far as is it going through the correct process, yes, it is going through the correct process was that's a local Rd. So 01:39:12
it's not done regionally in the same way that a bad process would go through. I know. But the way in which sometimes we speak and 01:39:20
the way in which we just said that we're not going through mag on everything. And I just want to well, let's talk about that. I, I 01:39:27
like what you're saying and I'm going to clarify it for you is that there are certain funds at the state that MAG is over. 01:39:35
And you guys are up at the legislature using our lobbyists to lobby for a road that me and Sarah do not know about. And it might 01:40:17
be a good Rd. A lot of things you don't know about. You're still adjusting and learning about all of our goals. And we have 01:40:23
requested to meet with our lobbyists. And he wrote and said that he would love to meet with you. 01:40:30
And so did he send it to all the council and Marty went and met that e-mail. I responded and said I would also like to meet with 01:40:37
you. And then he said that he would be willing to meet us up at the But I want to know how I want to know how it goes from me and 01:40:43
Sarah find out about. 01:40:49
A bridge at the legislature that our city is pushing and that we didn't get the respect to know about it. Like there's a lot of 01:40:56
things that they're doing that you don't know about. We've talked about this. There's been like 10 years of legislation and goals 01:41:03
and plans that we have, and there's going to be a lot of things that come up. 01:41:09
I'm going to clarify it for you because this isn't a conversation that needs to happen here, and I'm going to clarify it and this 01:41:17
is how it is. 01:41:21
What Marty is trying to articulate is that we have put in transportation plans that were voted in by the body, so there's all 01:41:27
public records. So until you go back through the transportation plan and vote not to have access or to have a different mechanism 01:41:34
on 12th N, everything that is done goes according to the laws or the plans that were voted on by the council for the last 40 years 01:41:40
that the city has been here and anything that is built on. So if there's anything that you want to change on it, you would change 01:41:47
that. 01:41:54
And then that's how we would change it. If there's any way that we can facilitate any meeting that you're having or that you need, 01:42:42
we'd be more than happy to do that. And like I said. 01:42:46
Our lobbyists, our government consultants, our city, we're all trying to give you anything that you need. But you can notice we're 01:42:53
going through the right process and not every amount of money that comes into the city or is being asked for necessarily comes 01:42:59
from the asks of the city. So that's something that you want to clarify with the staff. 01:43:06
Confusion that needs to be clarified and it's not helpful to the public, nor is it helpful to this meeting. Mayor, with all due 01:43:47
respect. 01:43:52
All right, we all get to determine what is important. 01:43:59
I get to determine you do that is true, but I do get to conduct this meeting and tell you when something is out of order from this 01:44:02
meeting and this is out of order from this meeting. 01:44:06
Well, it with all due respect, from a respect standpoint, when our representative calls and says, why is your city using the 01:44:12
Christmas list, that the legislature for a $10 million bridge is an elected official and I don't know about it. I go and I've been 01:44:18
trying to get on Board. And so it feels like I'm being circumvented. And that's what I'm just saying. It's like I'm going to 01:44:24
explain the Christmas list for the public. I have great relationships with Nelson, Keith and Val, all of our representatives and 01:44:31
our senators. 01:44:37
The 1200 N ask that you posted about is went through the RFA process. The Christmas tree list that you're referring to would be 01:44:45
something that would go out of process and doesn't happen in the last couple days of the legislature. These guys know that this 01:44:51
went through exact process as it was done publicly and on the agenda. This is why I'm saying this conversation is out of order and 01:44:57
there is a lot of misconception that's happening here and that you need to go and talk about it with our staff and the relevant 01:45:03
people that are dealing with it. 01:45:09
Because this isn't a conversation that the two of us or that the five of us need to have here. It isn't helpful. It isn't clear. 01:45:16
And I don't want to have to sit and explain to you in this meeting the process that we're going through when it is going according 01:45:23
to the laws and the processes that are due and right. And our representatives are helping us and working with us through those 01:45:30
processes. OK. And I'll just end with this. 01:45:37
The Christmas tree list is where we get a back door thing to our Appropriations Committee. I've worked at the legislature and with 01:45:46
legislators for 18 years. So yeah, it it is something that you can go, hey, if there's extra money, could you kick us in on a $10 01:45:54
million bridge? What I'm saying is if they have $10 million for us as a legislative body. 01:46:02
It's not ours, but I will say this, our lobbyist is the one that's putting it together. OK, That's something that you don't 01:46:43
understand and it is not accurate. And that's why I'm trying to say I think that you should take the time. It is not good for this 01:46:49
meeting. Take the time to come and learn more about it. And what I'm telling you is that the processes we're working on is for 01:46:55
different roads that are going through a Mac process. And this 12 North Rd. does not have the same situation that you think is 01:47:01
happening. 01:47:07
It is going through a process with funds that are allocated through a different area that does not is not regulated by MAG. And so 01:47:13
I'm going to end this conversation, move on to the next agenda point and then we can have this conversation because I want you to 01:47:21
have all of the information necessary. But I don't think that this conversation is helpful or appropriate to have right here, 01:47:29
especially because this is a benefit to Vineyard and we want it to remain a benefit to Vineyard. So. 01:47:36
I'm going to go ahead and move on to Maria. 01:47:44
Who is our neighborhood community services coordinator and she is going to give us a staff report. 01:47:48
I. 01:48:01
So I'm waiting for it to get white so I can. 01:48:17
Do it. 01:48:20
So. 01:48:29
For this, it's just a brief summary of kind of. 01:48:31
What I've been doing. I did barely get into neighborhood Service coordinator as of January so still pretty new to it. 01:48:34
But as of now, I've just been introducing myself to the community manager, the agility managers to set up a quarterly meeting. So 01:48:43
I have that plan for March 21st as of now. 01:48:48
Umm, here. 01:48:56
So far in this year we've had 20 complaints. 01:49:03
Reported to the Report of Concern TAB, a majority of them have been in regards to traffic, parking and refuge. 01:49:07
Majority of them have been in the Westbrook neighborhood. 01:49:17
Several were regarding the traffic lights on Mill Rd. in the Vineyard Connector. Usually it's just talking about how slow the 01:49:20
lights are going. 01:49:24
And the majority of parking relates to street parking or the majority of the parking issues, I should say are in regards to these 01:49:31
street parking. 01:49:35
Here we have kind of where we're at in terms of. 01:49:42
Occupancy. We've had one concern about occupancy. The majority is going to be parking. 01:49:47
We've had a couple for city property, mainly Westbrook, all others is kind of every other neighborhood we've had kind of one or 01:49:59
two here and there. 01:50:03
And then in terms of departments, Public Works has been getting a majority of them just because most of them are. 01:50:09
Kind of in regards to I said refuse and sometimes and typically it's just something like that. Sheriff does get quite a bit 01:50:16
because most of them are in revolving around parking. 01:50:22
And then some of them are going to planning, the others are kind of just sporadic here and there where I send them off to. 01:50:29
You know, evidence with with the occupancy issues and that's, and that's often difficult to, to be able to get evidence of how 01:51:13
many people live in house. And when I'm talking, I mean, mainly there we have a lot of investors, people that will own townhomes. 01:51:19
We go out and look into it and find out what's going on with that car. Most of them where they're violating our ordinances that we 01:52:36
already have is some of it over parking where they want to implement the Reduction of parking ordinance. 01:52:42
For typically for the street parking, what it is, it's just. 01:52:51
It's just a lot. It's over parking. It is a lot of the concerns that we get is there's just so many cars on the road. There's too 01:52:57
many that could be a hazard. A lot of them during kind of the snow was just there were so many with the soccer couldn't get 01:53:01
through. 01:53:06
In regards to that, typically what I do is I do what the bill that you know, street parking is essentially legal. 01:53:14
But they are very welcome to if there is something like a car that hasn't been, that's been parked there or in the hazard it's 01:53:20
walking, you know, sidewalk, anything like that, they can send me a picture, report it, or they can contact the sheriff 01:53:27
non-emergency line. And then that way they can get that taken care of. OK Yeah, Marie does a great job sending those pictures over 01:53:34
to us. Then Molly, whoever's on duty will go out and take care of it. Awesome. That's great news. 01:53:41
I think that is it great. Any questions for Maria? 01:53:49
OK, you're back. I was. Jim Price is a good guy at MAG. Like working with him? I did like working with him. 01:53:52
I wasn't typically working with him more. I was with the key department, so I did more utility assistance. We're gonna get him on 01:53:59
a Commission, so he's a good guy. 01:54:04
Awesome. All right, that springs, I thought he was retiring. He did retire, but he's back in retiring and now he wants to be with 01:54:10
us. So all right, that brings us to our consent items, unless Eric, you have anything you wanted to add? OK, that brings us to our 01:54:18
consent items. I believe we have one item that needs to have some discussion. It's 6.3. 01:54:27
And other than that I just need a motion on the rest of them I need to unless there is. 01:54:37
I wasn't briefed on the premier event alcohol license. OK, so you want to talk about 6. So we're removing 6.3 and 6.5. We can just 01:54:46
vote on it separately. That's OK. I move to approve and adopt the consent items excluding 6.3. And would you rather me stay on the 01:54:56
positive? We're going to, we're going to approve and adopt consent item 6.16.26.4 and 6.6 as presented second. 01:55:06
First thing, Marty, second by Amber, any discussion? All right, I will need A roll call. Jake. Yes, Amber. All right, yes, Marty, 01:55:16
yay. And Sarah, yes. All right, we'll start with our discussion on 6.3 approval of a background check policy for coaches. And 01:55:25
Jamie, I'm going to just turn this over to you and say what were the changes or what's the discussion that we needed to have here? 01:55:33
The I think the version that made its way into your packet hadn't quite cut up the current events, so. 01:55:41
Brian's done a really great job with our youth sports programs and cares a lot that the people we have as coaches are qualified to 01:55:50
do that and don't pose a risk to the kids that they're coaching and so. 01:55:56
He a few months ago asked me to help him do some research on. 01:56:04
What are the different policies that cities and youth sports organizations use throughout the state to do background checks on 01:56:09
coaches and then to screen out those coaches that might not be a good fit to be coaching kids? And so we put together a memo and 01:56:16
then put together a background check policy that he's been using informally to do that. And I don't know that I'm happy to report 01:56:24
this, but I am in the sense that it helps keep kids safe that we have ended up each season having. 01:56:32
Two or three coaches where they have things on their record that are either recent or are a red flag. 01:56:40
To be coaching kids. And so Brian's been able to talk to those coaches and say we appreciate your willingness to coach, but we 01:56:48
need to find somebody else for this team and have them not be a part of it. We now have taken the policy and thought it would be 01:56:56
good to. We want to be sure that if he tells somebody they can't coach, that he has some force behind that decision. 01:57:03
And so we wanted the Council to formally adopt the policy. The version you have in the OR were provided ahead of time still had 01:57:11
some of that. 01:57:16
Investigation and kind of reporting language that I had put together a memo for Brian to consider what to do. We've cleaned it up 01:57:23
and the new version that you have in printed form is. 01:57:29
A formal policy, it basically requires all coaches before they coach to have a background check and for returning coaches to 01:57:36
update that check every year. And then instead of making judgments about which offenses should disqualify somebody, we have we 01:57:44
pulled them the criteria that was used by Utah Youth Soccer and found that that was the best and the most comprehensive of any the 01:57:52
any other organization in the state had. 01:57:59
And. 01:58:08
We have applied that the last few rounds of coaching. We found it useful. You get the report, you just check it against that table 01:58:08
essentially and and then have those coaches that fit the criteria not coach. It is a policy that allows for reform. So if you have 01:58:16
somebody that had a shoplifting offense as a teenager and they've had nothing on their records since then, they could coach. But 01:58:23
if they shoplifted last month, then. 01:58:31
Probably not. 01:58:38
Alright, any comments or questions from the council? Is this something that could be used for other categories involving children 01:58:40
like the library if you have? Yes, yeah, we could just update it. You know, anybody that is involved with. 01:58:48
I think if you do youth council, if you do library programs, certainly you could apply the same criteria and the background checks 01:58:56
are inexpensive, right? Yes, I think would we just rename it or where would we put that stipulation? Just do it in your motion and 01:59:03
then we'll update the memo that it's not just coaching, but it's any, any individual that works with youth. 01:59:11
All right. 01:59:23
Thank you so much for working on this. This is so important and. 01:59:25
And it's euthanistic, OK to find out 18 and under, 18 and under, yeah. That it's just miners. If they're under 18, then we we want 02:00:03
to be sure they're protected. 02:00:09
Amber, since you did that, do you want to make a motion for that one? Sure. 02:00:17
I move to approve where? Item 6.4. No, just kidding. Which number are we on here? 6.36.3 Item 6.3 with the change that it is the 02:00:22
Vineyard city volunteer background check policy for any individual who works with youth, miners, minors, minors. All right, a 02:00:31
first by Amber. Can I get a second? Second. So second. OK, second by Jake. 02:00:41
We'll do roll call. Sarah. Yes, Marty. Yes, yes. Amber, I Jake. Hi. All right, EU approval of the Utah Premier Events alcohol 02:00:52
license is because there is an event. 02:00:58
The Premier Prom. 02:01:05
That needs a waiver because they want to have alcohol at their events. If you want more information about what the event is, 02:01:08
Morgan's got this. So I mean, let's go. When do we get to talk about premiere Proms? 02:01:15
So this is at the this is located at the studio space that we have in the north side of the city. Enigma Three. We actually took a 02:01:25
tour of it. A few of us did. I think it was about two years ago. So really cool space. 02:01:32
Yeah, we have our own movie studio up in Vineyard and that's I think that's kind of cool. And so that this would be located in 02:01:39
that space on the north side of the city and the industrial district. This is a Class 3 license and it requires local consent. So 02:01:45
that would be approval from the City Council and it's a one time event. 02:01:52
So the I believe in the staff report does indicate that the Sheriff's Office has reviewed the application as well as the events 02:01:59
coordinator. 02:02:03
And Kelly, our business licensing coordinator is recommending approval. And then just a quick note, some decisions you make are 02:02:07
legislative, like the policy we just did would be a legislative decision where if you didn't like it for whatever reason, you 02:02:13
could tweak it. This is an administrative decision. And so where? 02:02:18
You may not like that alcohol served at the event, but if they've gone through all the checks and all the fact that it's OK, it's 02:02:25
part of the process that the state alcohol laws follow. And so you're making an administrative decision based on the evidence 02:02:32
presented. I actually just pulled it out just to learn because I was like educational for the insider. So is that a code that our 02:02:38
city put together in the past on like applications for alcohol and whatnot? 02:02:45
It it follows the legislation, oh, it follows we don't have our own policy. That's right. So some of the state alcohol laws 02:02:53
require what's called, quote, local consent and you'll essentially go through and have holding the Sheriff's Office and others do 02:02:59
checks on whose appliance to make sure there haven't been. 02:03:06
Things either in their history or in their hosting of events that have been problems. OK. And then typically, as long as that 02:03:13
report comes back that there's not an issue with the individual applying, then you would provide your consent within that state 02:03:20
framework. As much as I'm not a drinker, I appreciate notifications of adult parties. 02:03:28
All right. 02:03:37
With that I need a motion. 02:03:42
I make a motion to approve 6.5 All right, first by Jake, second, second by Amber. Any discussion all in favor? Aye, any opposed? 02:03:45
All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our appointments for the Vineyard Bicycle Commission. And this is I have Jim Price and 02:03:52
Chris Wilson. Hopefully you were able to discuss and meet with them, but Jim Price has worked with Meg on a regional trails and 02:04:00
knows so much about. 02:04:08
Moving people in active transportation and recreation and then Chris Welty, who's the Co executive director as an alternate. So 02:04:16
Jim would be the sitting member and then Chris will see with bike Utah would be the alternate. They're both great. They love our 02:04:23
community. They've been actively involved in our community and we just think this is going to create such a great opportunity for 02:04:31
the BAC to really come up with a great structure and plan for our community and maybe go get a different. 02:04:39
Another award that's not just bonds, it's it's the next level though, so help them out. So with that, I just need a motion real 02:04:48
quick. I got a question. So I interviewed both on the fantastic. 02:04:53
In fact, then I like, I liked him a lot. Both are aren't from the near. How is the makeup of vineyard like is it mostly vineyards? 02:04:59
It's mostly vineyards, yes. Both of these are like so amazing that they're willing to come in and do that. Yeah, we actually went 02:05:06
through and asked for some at large because the BAC really wanted to see some external expertise. And so the makeup is mostly 02:05:14
vineyard and then they asked for these out large positions so that they could go and get some. 02:05:21
Additional expertise on their board. Yeah, OK. I just want to for the record, Chris has an incredible background. He's served in 02:05:29
bike walk Provo and just that they're willing to serve our community although from a great yeah, thank you. I can try to bring 02:05:35
them in. 02:05:41
To this meeting that they couldn't make it. Yeah, I'll let her know we all. 02:05:48
Thank you. OK, Any questions? Otherwise, I just need a motion to approve my appointments. So, Luke? Thank you, Amber, Second, 02:05:53
second by Marty, all in favor, aye. All right, we'll go ahead and move on to our business items. 02:06:02
This is our public hearing Budget Amendment Resolution 2024, Dash 01. This item was continued from January 10th and January 24th. 02:06:13
Yeah. So I think the conversation is our council members still want to see the budget. Jake and Sarah, I think that's what you 02:06:20
were hoping for. And so we were going to move this one more time. One more time, March 13th. OK, we have a first by Marty. Can I 02:06:28
get a second? 02:06:35
I second. All in favor. Aye. Any opposed? No. All right. This brings us to the end of our meeting. I just need a. Well, I'm just 02:06:44
going to turn. Can I say one quick thing? Yeah, sure. David Pierce is serving as our Vineyard Cares person. 02:06:52
Board chair, I got the opportunity. I did not get to meet with the head. 02:07:01
Person, Jessica. 02:07:07
But I in meeting with on the Saturday meetings and Monday meetings, I wanted to ask the council, how do we make do we make those 02:07:10
boards knowledgeable that they can volunteer with David for the various different groups to, to support because he's the chair. So 02:07:20
like he's the chair of cares and we have like arch and all this and we had so many people come out. 02:07:31
And it was Saturday. I was like, I want to volunteer like they were just so. And I didn't know that. I know you appoint the head 02:07:41
person, but I don't know if we've had David or the citizen person come and say. 02:07:48
And then I'm gonna let you guys talk offline. Thank you. Yeah, sorry. 02:08:30
I. 02:08:40
Yeah, I just, but we set it up. I was in DC. 02:08:47
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I. 00:00:00
OK, all right. Today is February 21st. It's Wednesday, the year 2024, and the time is 601. We're going to go ahead and start a 00:00:07
City Council meeting. I asked Council Member Fuentes if you could lead us in a thought indication and one of those or both, if you 00:00:14
want, and the Pledge of Allegiance. OK, I'll start with prayer. 00:00:22
Father, kind, heavenly Father, we are so very grateful for this wonderful day that we've received moisture and that we've been 00:00:32
able to. 00:00:35
Where it can live in this free country. We're so very grateful for all the blessings that was bestowed upon us and for this 00:00:41
wonderful city. We're grateful for the wonderful people in our community and the staff and all the people that are serving and 00:00:46
trying to help us. 00:00:50
Through good and hard times and. 00:00:56
That are working together. 00:01:00
To help build relationships, please bless and watch over us as we go throughout this meeting and as we work together that we can 00:01:02
do so with a spirit and working together and we're so very grateful for. 00:01:09
Our Savior Jesus Christ, and we say these things in His name, Amen. 00:01:18
All rise. 00:01:23
Of the United States of America, and consider Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 00:01:26
justice for all. 00:01:33
Thank you so much. All right, there's a little change in the schedule. 00:01:42
Let's see, we had a presentation that was going to be a little bit further down the schedule, but we're going to bump that to our 00:01:46
work session and this will be presented by Anthony Fletcher, who's one of our planners. Our Bicycle Advisory Commission has been 00:01:52
working hard and he's going to present an award that they. 00:01:58
Brought to us in our community. 00:02:06
Hi, my name is Anthony Fletcher and. 00:02:15
The city has been working really hard. 00:02:19
We've been trying hard to make sure we have a bike friendly community for all that's safe for our residents and visitors as well 00:02:22
that come into the city and we have been designated an award that makes us a bronze bike friendly community. But at this point I 00:02:29
want to turn it over to our BAC members to make that formal presentation for us to honor them for all the good work that they do 00:02:36
as well. 00:02:43
So I'll turn it over to Anthony Jenkins. 00:02:51
Thank you. 00:02:54
And safety and rights of the road and not driving distracted and enforcing, you know, speed limits and things like that. And so 00:04:03
thanks for keeping us safe. That's a big part of having a good community in general, but bike friendly community specifically. So 00:04:09
with that, I'll hand us over to the council and mayor. Thank you so much. Well, this has to do with so much of your hard work and 00:04:15
the the team that you guys that have been helping build together. So round of applause for you guys. 00:04:21
And then before you go, Anthony and Anthony, why don't you guys come up here and we'll get a picture with this, because it takes a 00:04:29
lot of work to create a community like this for the people that live here. 00:04:34
My new thing is actually. 00:04:54
Thank you. 00:05:15
I. 00:05:18
Right. With that, we'll move into our regular scheduled meeting, which is our we're going to go ahead and start with a zoning text 00:05:34
amendment on landscaping and our attorney Jamie Blakesley will present this for us. OK, thank you Mayor and thank you members of 00:05:40
the council for this time. We are in the work session portion of our meeting. And so imagine yourself around the conference room 00:05:46
table and we're just. 00:05:52
Kind of forecasting things that are coming down the road and we want to get your input on it. Broadly, we have the wave Vineyard 00:05:59
has done its zoning over the years is you have zoning districts established within the city and then for some of the projects that 00:06:06
were developed wholesale either from. 00:06:12
Well, areas that were built as a full neighborhood all at once, they enjoy special zoning districts. And then those special zoning 00:06:20
districts in our zoning ordinance have their own unique language about how certain things occur. One of the things that's 00:06:27
addressed in the planned unit development portion of the ordinance and then in the water's edge portion of the ordinance. 00:06:35
Is discussion about common areas and landscaping and who's responsible for landscaping. And so they point in places to landscaping 00:06:44
that the city's responsible for, and then they point to areas where the HO as or the owner of the common area are responsible for 00:06:51
that landscaping. As the years have passed and as the city and the Hoas have negotiated over who does what, we've found that there 00:06:59
are. 00:07:06
Some, I won't call them gaps, but there are areas where the maps in the zoning ordinance are not precise enough to know exactly 00:07:14
where those boundaries are and exactly who's responsible for what areas. And so we've been brainstorming about how do we get out 00:07:21
those gaps and what's the best way to do it. And what we think we have to do is some kind of an agreement with the Hoas that 00:07:29
touches on that will amend out of the zoning ordinance the language related to landscape. 00:07:37
And then move it to an agreement, a contract between the city and the Hoas that would spell that out. And then if the common areas 00:07:45
designated in the HOA covenants that apply to the property don't accurately reflect where those lines are, to seek amendment of 00:07:52
those covenants as part of that agreement. So there's kind of three pieces in, in some moving parts to how we do it. We would like 00:07:59
to engage with the HOAS and begin the process of doing that. I think it primarily effects water's edge. And so that would be the 00:08:06
first conversation. 00:08:13
To try to sort through who does that, I think the areas where there's most question over who does the landscaping are the 00:08:22
entrances and exits to the development and especially where there's signage and planting along the fence line of who does that. 00:08:28
And we of course have an interest in making sure that it's clear so we know how to budget for it and know who's responsible so it 00:08:35
can be kept nice. 00:08:41
So that's the basic topic of conversation and we just want to get a green light before we. 00:08:48
Start doing work on it and then if you have any. 00:08:54
Particular insights into areas of concern to make sure we note those so they can be addressed. 00:08:56
Any questions from the Council? 00:09:03
Is the is the goal to relinquish and give it? Is it always to give the property back to them or it's just the ability to use it? 00:09:07
Well, no, it's not. I don't think there's any desire to give or receive property. But where there's question about who's 00:09:14
responsible, we want to make sure that's addressed. 00:09:20
So right now you have some planting and lawn care and things like that along those fence areas where it's just not being cared 00:09:28
for. 00:09:32
We understood that to be part of the HOA common areas, and we're not sure exactly how they understand it, but when we look at the 00:09:37
maps in the code, they're not precise enough to really know. 00:09:43
Who's responsible for that area? 00:09:50
If the covenants are sufficiently clear, then we can probably figure it out in an agreement, you know who, who maintains it and 00:10:26
who cares for it. But we obviously don't want the HOA to have to maintain city property or the city to have to maintain HOA 00:10:32
property. So we just want to know where those exact boundaries are. It was exciting. I'm really glad. I know we've been working a 00:10:38
long time to kind of map that out so that we could move into this process. So it's nice to see that we're at this point. Are there 00:10:44
any other questions or comments? 00:10:50
In is it the intent also sometimes if it is that way to just deed over property so they might own it because in certain in meeting 00:10:56
with Hoas it's been incredible how. 00:11:02
I think there's four or five different instances where they've come and said we own this, but we don't know why we should and vice 00:11:10
versa. You own this, but it it doesn't make sense. Like the sprinkler lines. 00:11:16
And if we're going to be doing it of like, hey, you use this or that, why wouldn't we just clean up the property boundaries to 00:11:23
like fix it? Yeah, what I meant by amending the covenants is exactly, exactly that, the properties. Okay, yeah, the way HOA 00:11:30
covenants work is the properties divided up right? And you have individual homeowners whose own. 00:11:37
Their property, and then you have common property that's owned by all of them together, and the HOA controls that. In some 00:11:45
instances, to deed it, they'll have to go to a vote of the homeowners. So it's not a simple process all the time. But if redrawing 00:11:52
that on the deed and giving property to the city solves it, or vice versa, I think we're open to all solutions. We just want it at 00:11:58
the end of the day, our goal is to make sure that the city is kept to a nice standard and to know if we're responsible, then we 00:12:05
can do it. 00:12:12
And if we're not responsible, who do we hold accountable to make sure it's done? 00:12:19
And then my last question are you will, will you follow the same procedures of the HOA and just hold like allowing them to do a 00:12:23
public meeting on their on their side like an HOA? I think they're required to buy the statue. So we would help out, okay, Just if 00:12:30
they ask, okay, this will go through an official process on your side. I think this will end up being a six to 12 month process, 00:12:36
honestly to to sort it all out. We just wanted to begin the conversation. 00:12:42
Make sure you all were aware as we embark on it. Is there anything we can do, Jamie, in the interim? But you know, 6 to 12 months, 00:12:49
how will they be maintained then? 00:12:54
The same way they have been up until now. 00:13:00
Miss partly. 00:13:04
I don't, I don't think we, I don't think we can solve the issue until we get out the ownership questions. So. 00:13:06
Each week coalition meetings that we hold, so OK. 00:13:50
All right. Thank you so much, Sammy. We will go ahead and move on to our second presentation, our Pavement conditions assessment 00:13:56
and our Public Works Director, Nassim Gandor will present these results to us. 00:14:03
Press the button. 00:14:39
Yeah. 00:14:48
I think the door for the worst director. I have a presentation put together and kind of in the earnest of and the spirit of kind 00:14:59
of giving us some back story about pavement preservation. I got some background information for City Council. I'll go ahead and 00:15:06
ask now if City Council would like to kind of have a brief history of time of. 00:15:13
Pavement or whether they like to jump to kind of. 00:15:21
The bone of the bone of the presentation. 00:15:27
If anyone has a preference. 00:15:30
It won't. The total presentation probably be about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. I won't. I won't linger on any particular slide unless 00:15:33
I'm asked for. 00:15:37
All right, I don't think I need a history. I'll get the history later. 00:15:42
OK, see so Paving Preservation workshop. Sarah, do you feel that way? 00:15:48
You're OK. 00:15:54
Like I said, your policy, I mean just scroll through a few slides while when I get to the main point of it. So patient 00:15:56
preservation workshop on there. This gives you a little bit of background about me and all my fun stuff about living concrete. 00:16:03
All roads lead to all rose leaves Rome some history about pavement. Here's a here's a I'll stop for this one. A funny joke about 00:16:13
pavement. Romans built rose 2000 years ago. Modern roads it looked like worse than the Romans roads. So I always want to show 00:16:18
that. 00:16:23
Areas of concrete damage, asphalt damage, how much it costs to build a road, I do want to talk about here, but back in the day 00:16:30
they said, they used to say that the growth cost about $1 million per mile to build. Right now the role, it's kind of anywhere 00:16:38
between 1 1/2 to $2,000,000 per mile to build. And it's just a recent article from the Salt Lake Tribune about I-15, which was 00:16:45
published back in October 2002. Thousand 23 I believe, about the pricing. NS is doubling. 00:16:53
On this project and I noticed I know DLT does a really good job on pricing things out so. 00:17:01
About how to make your payments last longer, right? Where was that bridge that had a faulty? 00:17:08
The bridge that have faulty. 00:17:15
This is OK. I'm sorry. This is a bridge to an I-15 out of Salt Lake City going to Farmington. This is the Salt Lake. Are people 00:17:19
still driving on that? 00:17:22
Not really. I just say I hope not. You can keep going. So talking about how preservation lost, right, Right treatment, right 00:17:27
streets, right time. 00:17:32
In essence, that's what creative preservation is. What you're looking at doing is reducing the cost to do about six, six to one 00:17:37
savings ratio. 00:17:41
Everything has a life cycle. Pavement, it's just like skin. Take care of your skin, take take care of pavement, take care of the 00:17:46
exterior of your house and take care of the interior house. 00:17:50
Types of treatments, depending on the type of treatment, depending on the depth of the repair to be what we're trying to do. OK, 00:17:55
kind of coming here. What we're trying to do is we're trying to send the life of the pavement when we do pavement preservation, 00:18:02
pavement preservation programs where we have the original pavement condition and we're trying to hit the sweet spots of above 00:18:10
minor investments and treatments, spending about a dollar for preservation per square yard, $4.00 for rehab. 00:18:17
$25 per square, square yard for reconstruction. In essence, we don't want to be spending the red, we want to be spending the 00:18:25
green, or if that's the yellow. 00:18:29
Preventive maintenance concept. What we're trying to do for a pavement preservation program is keeping the This is just a time 00:18:37
curve where the pavement condition is based on age by itself. 00:18:43
Spending that $1.00, which is kind of a baseline, the numbers really aren't. 00:18:51
True representation, what they actually cost 30 years. What you're trying to do is you say I would rather spend $1.00 on 00:18:58
preventive maintenance here versus waiting to spend $6 later. And this is just based on age. 00:19:04
And then again, if you take a look at that strategy, what you want to do is you want to keep extending the life of that pavement 00:19:11
by spending that $1.00 hitting you at the $1.00 mark over and over again. Again, that's based on age. In real life, nothing, 00:19:18
nothing deteriorates just on age by itself. So it's really important to actually go out and assess what the payments, what your 00:19:25
payment condition is, and because there's a loss of other factors that play into your role. So you're taking that same concept and 00:19:31
putting it on. 00:19:38
In terms of relationship in relationship to. 00:19:46
What's the condition, for example, of your house has leaks in your house, but it's, you know, 3 year old house. You're going to 00:19:49
say, well, you know, I'm not going to wait to fix it until it becomes a 15 year old house. You'll fix those leaks early. You go on 00:19:54
to keep maintaining it. 00:19:58
This is when it comes to pavement, pavement management. This is a program that Utah dot and many dots and many other miss valleys 00:20:06
utilized for the dots. This is a slide from there asset management division. 00:20:13
Where they take they stay concrete a baseline on this thing. The baseline is a level service C. 00:20:21
60 about 65% of the condition of the pavement and doing preventive treatment multiple times over the years before it gets to the 00:20:28
65 before it gets to that 65 This chart represents that doing this type of pavement preservation program over the course of five 00:20:38
replacement cycles for replacement cycles they were they realized the savings of about 2.5 times. 00:20:48
So. 00:20:59
So again, now jumping right into the meat of the of what we've been doing. So in essence following the same type of principles of 00:21:02
pavement of, you know, taking care of what we own, taking care of the assets of the city's assets like many other assets that we 00:21:07
that the that's within the city pavement. 00:21:13
You know, we have a road map. Our first road map is, you know, going out there and inventorying our roads. So what do we have? Our 00:21:20
second step is now is doing an assessment. Our future steps that we haven't gone into is establishing baselines, for example, 00:21:26
quality of life. 00:21:32
The example that I showed you for the dot, the baseline was 65% of the condition of the pavement. That's they didn't want to go 00:21:39
any lower than that. Other cities, for example, the city that I was at before, we had a baseline of 70 on our stuff. There's a 00:21:45
there's other ways to do it, for example. 00:21:52
Depending on the type of Rd. for example, collector Rd. like Main Street would be, could be at one level now, while you have a 00:21:58
smaller Rd. like maybe a neighborhood Rd. for example, could be a different level. There's not there's, it really comes down to 00:22:04
when I say it's like the quality of life, the level of services to provide. Again, there's multiple factors that plays into that. 00:22:10
So that's why I say create the baselines that establish the baselines. I'm not going to be asking to establish those baselines 00:22:16
today. 00:22:22
But we're still. 00:22:28
Computing the data in essence with the consultants. And then what we would like to do is perform and come back to council. We're 00:22:31
going to present some standard baselines to say here's the here's some information, here's some standard baselines based on our 00:22:39
experience. And then use that to allow the council to make a good decision on which way we would like we would like to go. And 00:22:47
then from after we get the council members to feedback, then we'll run the run scenarios. 00:22:55
Engineers like nothing less or nothing more, excuse me, than running scenarios. I can ask my wife. So. So going back into the 00:23:03
inventory, we measure it. The number of streets that we surveyed was 606 different streets within the city. That's about 46 and 00:23:13
almost 46 1/2 miles of streets. The square footage, the square foot is 25.1 million square feet of surface and that's 84%. 00:23:23
Residential and 16% collector roads. This is a picture. 00:23:34
October 2023 where we had Horrocks which was our consult, which is our consultant which came out and drove the roads using the 00:23:37
high technology Lidar system that mapped out all the roads and took and it was in essence serving in the survey of the roads. The 00:23:45
nice thing about the Lidar that we're utilizing as well as not only was it taking information about the pavement, but we were also 00:23:52
collecting all the data from our what's within the right of ways in essence up to the sidewalk. 00:24:00
And with that we're, we're actually actually allowed us to go and get that information to our survey consultant and who's updating 00:24:08
our maps with real time information. So it was actually a money well spent because it also provides us a time saver as well. 00:24:16
So. 00:24:26
Here's a map representation. 00:24:28
Of what the streets are like here in Vineyard City. So pastor condition average of 8.4. The lowest is 4.4 with the mean of 8.3. 00:24:33
The in essence just relative. This is a rating between 1:00 and 10:00. Tending the best and one is the worst. On this I just 00:24:40
listed out the street names that had that were under 6 for example. Not saying that those are bad, but those are, you know, within 00:24:48
the low end of the spectrum itself. 00:24:55
On that, so we got 2000 W St. being the lowest which it goes into London. I'm not sure we care about that. So I'm sure of course 00:25:04
we do care. But as you can see, and the nice thing about this is it gives us this real time information. The other information we 00:25:11
provide to the consultant was 80 to the streets when the streets were built, the last time it was treated and so forth. And that's 00:25:19
what they're currently trying to, they're using the cab they're still crunching out the numbers for. 00:25:26
Here is a the pacer pavement evaluation criteria again 10 being the best. In essence, a newly constructed St. 00:25:36
One thing the worst being at Fell St. you know in essence not really fit for travel. 00:25:44
And as you can see on this chart, 4 is. I mean, when I say four, it was 4.3, so 4.4, almost 4 1/2. So between fair, fair and fair, 00:25:51
5:00 and 5:00 and 4:00. 00:25:57
Did you have a question? I was just going to say that they're still kind of pulling the data together. I was going to ask what 00:26:05
our. 00:26:10
You know must broken up. Rd. number was if we had something that was just failing and needs total repair. 00:26:15
I mean, we do have some other criteria like for example, the road that goes along the lake that has deficiencies, defects. 00:26:24
However, when you take into, when you do the the condition assessment evaluation and it takes a lot of things into factor. In 00:26:31
essence, it's not failed roads, but it's not a great Rd. either. What if you have a new road in the construction if it wasn't done 00:26:38
properly? So it's nothing off that center line. 00:26:45
Something that needs to be redone or would we put that more in like a patching kind of face? Yeah, that's a great question. And as 00:26:54
you can see, when we go into that, you'll see the different types of repair methods. 00:27:01
But some advert like that in essence you would come down to it would start, you take them to account when the road was built and 00:27:09
what the condition it is and then you would kind of you would consider the failed Rd. 00:27:15
So when we're looking at establishing a response, we're taking a lot of the other municipalities and a lot of other kind of more 00:27:22
of the vitamins terminology for roadway condition. 00:27:29
Still more on the engineering side is PCI, which is paper and condition index, and it's a simple translation of multiply by 10. 00:27:38
I'm sure there was someone who's making money off pace here or someone making money off PCI, and it was an easy conversion between 00:27:44
the two. So in essence, if you take our PACER scores, multiply by 10, that gives us. That gives you the PCI score, which is a 00:27:50
pavement condition index. As you can see here, it's relative. It has a different series of. 00:27:57
Ratings. 00:28:04
And the nice thing about PCI is it's kind of baseline off the ASTM, which is the American standards for testing materials. 00:28:06
Or, excuse me, American Society testing materials. 00:28:13
No. So with that being said, here's some examples of the different, like visual examples of what the pavement looks like depending 00:28:17
on the score. So for example. 00:28:22
With our city that grow being 4.4. 00:28:30
You can see like it's kind of in the middle, excuse me, the middle right picture with PCI 42, which is poor in essence, still 00:28:34
transversible, but again, it's one of those rows that you're. 00:28:41
That you would consider doing more than just a surface type treatment. 00:28:48
And then when we talk about priorities later and establishing baseline, that little diagram kind of shows like how we're going to 00:28:54
do how we would take those priorities is taking the PCI, the payment condition index, the dollar, the dollars available as well as 00:29:01
ADT, which in essence means how have raised that road used? Is it a road that you have one car driving on it a day or 1000 cars 00:29:08
driving a day that does make a difference. The percentages there is just a representation of what of how you would want to weigh 00:29:14
it again. 00:29:21
There's different ways. What we'll do is when we come to council, council members will provide a provide you our recommendations 00:29:29
of how we would like to do it and then of course go pace off that. 00:29:34
Talking about some repairs, I mean, when you when you look into types of like what's your condition scores, that kind of helps 00:29:41
kind of identify what type of treatment you would have to do. You know, going from great from the top down, the best, which is no 00:29:47
treatment down to okay, it's satisfactory. It's a minor cracking reduced Larry Sale. 00:29:54
Then we would, you know, when it's very chip CL four, that's when you do an overlay like if we have in essence you put another 00:30:01
layer of pavement on there. Again, when we get into that, that that's recommended maintenance. When you kind of get into it, you 00:30:07
really kind of see what is the, where is it going? What is it? What's really happening on there? And then you can kind of say, 00:30:14
because sometimes if you just do a overlay and then you may have some reflective cracking, like for example, the base underneath 00:30:20
it is not dwell, it's just going to. 00:30:26
The cracks are just going to reflect right up. 00:30:32
Then of course going down to the total reconstruction and then depending on what you're looking at and it's total reconstruction 00:30:36
is also called full depth replacement. 00:30:41
As well. 00:30:47
Here's just a summary of just those different types of implementations. And when you think about implementations, the biggest 00:30:49
thing that we'll be talking about later that really plays a big factor about what's the cost associated with that. And the cost 00:30:57
comes down to, and this is the representative cost and not actual cost, but there this is, this is provided by an area, area 00:31:04
testing material testing company. So it's you know quite pretty close to active where we would be paying. 00:31:11
It is costing us if you're doing cracks you like maintenance like crack seal, some seal cultures, you know, maybe seal culture 00:31:21
paying a dollar, $1.90 per square yard versus having to do a surface patch which is $45.00 a square yard and if we're doing some 00:31:27
rehab. 00:31:33
You were a 1 1/2 inch known, excuse me, known overlay a 27 square yard versus having to reconstructive reconstruction, which at 00:31:39
the lowest end of it is about $45.00 a square yard. So in essence what you're trying to do is you're trying to hit that $1.00 mark 00:31:47
versus paying that $6 six dollar mark representative trying to say what you know when the least amount of money in order to ensure 00:31:55
that we're getting the the longest longity of the pavement. 00:32:03
So we're going to take, we're taking that information, we provided the cost information to the consultant, the consultants going 00:32:12
through the numbers and making some small adjustments and we'll be making some adjustments to the actual condition index that we 00:32:20
picked up. And this is a sample of what will be provided from the consultant. So in essence, the consultant has where the where 00:32:27
the pavement conditions currently at, when it was built, when it was the last time it was treated, what type of treatment. 00:32:34
It received. 00:32:42
And using. 00:32:43
AI technology and some industry information variable to file some trend lines to say even though this road was built maybe five 00:32:46
years earlier than another Rd. it's deteriorating faster. It has to have some treatments and we're projecting that that road is 00:32:53
going to deter continue deteriorating faster, requiring more attendance, more attention to the sooner than a road that might be 00:33:00
older. 00:33:08
The nice thing about that is we're going to be able to take our previous pavement preservation program from an age. 00:33:16
Related. 00:33:25
Decision to a. 00:33:27
Condition related decision on that. So that and that's in essence that's where we're, that's where we're going towards. 00:33:30
Or everyone year versus whether our averages is like five years or should be about 5 years. The nurse probably a deeper under the 00:34:10
lying issue that would say, you know what, we might have to bite the bullet and do some more extensive repairs on that. So with 00:34:18
your consultant, are we going to have the information we need in time for the budget to make sure that we're budgeting We yeah, we 00:34:25
expect to be able to have apple product to provide to council. 00:34:32
Within the month. So yeah, so at the end of the day, what we want to do is we want to come up with pavement preservation plan. 00:34:40
Here's two samples. One is Salt Lake City six year pavement, pavement plan. Pavement plan, excuse me. Which in essence comes down 00:34:48
to like, hey, this is what we're proposing. So I'd like to use a similar type technology on their streets to say this is what our 00:34:55
current conditions of the streets are and this is how we're we're applying on. 00:35:02
Preserving our pavement over the next six years. There's a sample on the right hand side. 00:35:10
It was actually a 20 year schedule, hidden schedule and that was developed, that was developed my last city we put together A20 00:35:14
year schedule using the same type of you know, methodology, ginseng, OK, this is where our payments are. This is how the 00:35:23
conditions are. This is this is what we anticipate and every time we implemented a pavement schedule like a payment thing. 00:35:32
Year we went through all the rows. 00:35:42
And the deep down assessment of, you know this particular this one Rd. neighborhood may have mill and overlay slurry coat and chip 00:35:44
seal. 00:35:51
All all done because the whole Rd. itself didn't need to be milled and overlay like we didn't have to do like the deeper thing. So 00:35:59
we, you know, so it's not so this provides us that like a real good projection of our budget. And then when we actually 00:36:05
implemented, we were, we just, we took a really good deep dive. 00:36:11
When we were following this type of program, the budget for my lost city. 00:36:18
We went from $600,000 to $1.4 million a year and pavement preservation and. 00:36:25
Just in that in using this type of methodology, we were able to like get like 1 1/2 years worth done because, you know, we took 00:36:33
that extra stuff. The expectation too is that, you know. 00:36:39
Each year all like the roads would be kind of reevaluated. 00:36:47
And of course, this will also help us by when we get this established when we take over rows from developers, private developers 00:37:32
or any other private roles, for example, we can set a baseline of saying before we take the road, it has to meet this criteria 00:37:39
because this is the criteria that's the City Council has that upon. So they're not just going to hand us over their problem. 00:37:46
Exactly. That's great. And then we can we can reserve the right to do like a professional assessment. 00:37:53
So since we're holding ourselves to the same standard that we'd be asking other people to hold and be held to as well. 00:38:02
So that's everything. How long range of a plan is most appropriate in your mind? I expect us to probably do a 10 year plan 00:38:09
typically. Again, when it comes to budgeting purposes, anything past five years is more of a WAG in terms of budgeting. It's 00:38:16
always nice to say, okay, here's what we're projecting our long term again. My last city we did 20 years out. We had lost because 00:38:23
we wanted to do every single growth in the city. 00:38:31
And that's, you know, and the city was both in the 1800s. So there was a lot of lot of growth and a lot of old, old growth as 00:38:38
well. So that's why we went out 20 years and knowing that every five years we're pretty much updating it anyway. And there was 00:38:45
honestly when we were implementing this and we just skipped out here because we made the decision that's, yeah. Even though age 00:38:51
wise it was appropriate, but it was still in good condition. 00:38:58
As far as level of service, we had gone over the type of road and kind of what we were putting on it. You mentioned the chip and 00:39:07
the flurry and everything like that. 00:39:12
Is, is there any way, I mean, I felt like we have the most robust package we could get last time, but our residents came in and 00:39:20
Amber, you brought this up to me as well, but our residents came in and they in fact one of them's here and talked about skating 00:39:25
and. 00:39:31
Biking And I was just wondering, does this consider additional layers that make it easier for them to bike or skate on without 00:39:36
shredding up their tires? And what is the additional cost of smoothing out a road like? That's two things to consider. One's the 00:39:46
cost of actually doing it and the other aspect is the friction because in order to, you know. 00:39:57
Efficient disengage energy being transferred from the car. 00:40:08
Changing Kinect energy to their thermal energy and moving forward. And the last version that there is on the road, that does pose 00:40:11
some problems for some, some cars. So what we have to do is we have to be considered in terms of if we reduce the friction course, 00:40:18
like for example, DLT roads, they do multiple layers and the top layers of first course layer, which is the wearable layer. And 00:40:25
for rows, there are, you know, for for DLT does it for all the rows because they're typically building rows that are 45 miles and, 00:40:33
and high. 00:40:40
Speed limit on that as we go, as we go down on our excuse me, as we reduce the friction factor, we're reducing that type. I'm not 00:40:47
saying that it's necessarily needed, but that's just a consideration that we would have to make sure that we're not we're playing 00:40:54
that good balance on there's there's another option that comes down to cost is for example, bikers, skaters, skateboarders, if 00:41:02
they're if the bike lane is. 00:41:09
The smoother layer, smoother layer and then the car travel lane is more coarse layer than what you're looking at is a price 00:41:17
difference because in essence you're paving twice the same mile is being paid twice with two different types of layers. I think it 00:41:24
might. I mean, I'm sure they can assess that as they're going through it, but it might be good for us to have just because it's 00:41:30
been a public commentary that we can. Yeah, we can definitely run through that scenario as well. Just to say this is here's here's 00:41:36
what the. 00:41:42
Cost option would be OK of course. 00:41:49
What the There's a cost option, then we'll also discuss with them on what. 00:41:53
The difference between repair like maintenance cycles as well OK. 00:42:00
Any other questions from the council? Yeah, I have a question. So you want to assess every Rd. in the city every year or so? You 00:42:05
know when I say every year, our plan, pavement preservation plan would be due to the four where it gets. 00:42:13
Treated that it's validated so just because we have the plans to say based on a computer generated generated model this is what it 00:42:23
is. But of course we're going to do a self evaluation again for a day like this on the ground about. 00:42:30
Valuation and to ensure that, for example, a road is we're not missing a red flag from another Rd. The intent is to drive. 00:42:38
Visual inspection and just driving around the roads, slowly driving down the other roads to see if there's any kind of visual 00:42:53
cracks or visual distresses that would, you know, that would indicate a deeper line problem like for example. 00:43:00
Any types like, you know, this is what we're looking for visual distresses like this say, oh, hey, this, this wasn't there last 00:43:10
year. And so this might be an indicator because we wouldn't want to spend money doing preservation on a road that is like, you 00:43:17
know, it's coming down and then miss out on an opportunity to actually do a rehab on a road that really needs it as well. So it's 00:43:23
it's just a good biking on kind of like ace internal audits validation check. 00:43:30
I'd be intrigued by an opportunity to go out there and look at it ourselves and sort of see the difference. Yeah, that'd be great 00:43:37
though. So this might sound weird, but so on an average you talk, obviously it's going to make a big difference on how how highly 00:43:44
used the road is, but what do they find the. 00:43:50
The preservation, like how many years is it? 00:43:58
Like, how often will you have to do it to have optimum, Optimum. Yeah, I mean results. Yeah. Let me see that. That's just like on 00:44:02
an average. Yeah, Average when you do this, your rows are lasting about 25 years. 00:44:08
Out Sir. Like for example the slide shows the world being about 50 years, about 50 years on there. Again, it depends on the type. 00:44:16
It doesn't depend on the type of Rd. 00:44:21
The type of Rd. that's being built in, of course, there's lots of, there's other factors like for example, the sub base and the 00:44:29
sub base. And sometimes I've had roads that were built like three years out three years. And the reason that is being replaced is 00:44:37
because, you know, no offense to our water manager over there, but they have water line breaks and takes out the road. 00:44:45
But I mean that's happened and then when it comes down to it, and that's kind of almost off topic, but at the same time, topic 00:44:54
utilities are within the row, especially water utilities. And I've seen 1/2 inch water line take out a collector road and it's a 00:45:02
big pain to get that fixed. And I've had it. I've had an internal crew of 2525 streets personnel with the with the four arrays 00:45:10
equipment like front end loaders, excavators. 00:45:19
And we're still down two weeks on that Bros trying to get back up and running. So and then that's I said that's that was 1/2 inch 00:45:27
wire line. And so ensuring part of roadway health to me is utility health as well. 00:45:34
OK, thank you. No, no problem. 00:45:42
OK. Any other questions from the Council? 00:45:45
All right. Thank you so much, Missy. We appreciate it. 00:45:50
All right, we're going to go ahead and move into our public comments. This is the time for you to come and address the council 00:45:54
about things that are not currently on the agenda. If you want to come and talk to us, please come to the podium, state your name 00:46:00
and where are you from, and then we'll go ahead and take your comments and you'll have about two minutes to speak if there's a 00:46:06
group of you that wants to speak together and make sure that you have one person to address the commentary. So come on up and we 00:46:12
are ready. 00:46:18
I'll go first, sorry. I have an appointment I'm going to go to after this. 00:46:36
I'm I'm just here just to encourage. 00:46:41
Thank you. And, and I'm just, I'm just here to encourage openness in, in our government. 00:46:49
I believe we need more open meetings where we can talk about things and and talk about things in a, in a, in a planned out way 00:46:56
thing, things that we can talk about even as a group of citizens to have input. 00:47:03
And we can get away from these really short announced meetings. 00:47:12
That that, that none of us. 00:47:16
You might have a chance and but I bet you the guys didn't even read the 199 pages that came out with a 24 day notice. 00:47:20
That really struck me as being very incorrect. 00:47:28
Very very wrong process. Almost, almost. 00:47:32
A disrespect to the citizens to give us a chance to evaluate and I believe the government should be of the people. 00:47:37
And I say that with as much kindness as I can. 00:47:45
I did ask a while back about some figures and, and someone on the band chair promised me that I would get that. And I'm not sure 00:47:49
how many weeks or months that's been, but I, I, I have not received that. You know what, what issue I'm talking about. 00:47:57
And and I'd still like that information. 00:48:06
I think as a citizen I can ask for that. 00:48:09
I don't think God does too much to ask. 00:48:12
I think we need more open meetings. 00:48:17
I I think everything should be open. 00:48:21
When I was on the Council. 00:48:24
I bought a piece of equipment. You'll have this. I bought a piece of equipment from Mayor Gammon. OK. 00:48:26
I had legally I needed to go find the value of that. 00:48:34
Piece of equipment. 00:48:39
So I could clear my name that it wasn't a gift. 00:48:43
That I wasn't owned, OK. 00:48:47
I knew that rule because I've been trained as a Councilman down the Saint George. 00:48:50
And I knew that I could not receive any gift. 00:48:55
Above a certain level. 00:49:00
And I think we need to understand those rules really well. And if we violate that, we need to come forward and say so. 00:49:02
I actually believe in open government. 00:49:10
I'm going to, I'm going to keep pushing for this because we are citizens and we ought to have input. 00:49:16
And every council member here ought to be heard, Every single one of you. 00:49:23
And, and I believe that strongly. Thank you for your time. Thank you. 00:49:29
Nip of the Ray Hallway Rd. 00:49:44
I want to follow up with Keith. 00:49:48
Started talking about the openness. I have a suggestion for the council if it's all right. First of all, I want to, I want to once 00:49:51
again say I really appreciated the efforts that were made at the first, first meeting after the new year. We had a lot of comments 00:49:57
there. And then you actually had a had a working session where you introduced the topic in a situation where you know in the 00:50:04
working agenda, working portion of the agenda where no action could be taken or you actually have people come in and present 00:50:10
topics. 00:50:16
And introduce the idea to the council and explain things and it allowed you time to. 00:50:23
Ask questions and so forth without having to be pressured by taking a vote. I thought that was an excellent start. Excellent 00:50:30
start. 00:50:34
I like to recommend that we, you know, that you continue with that and so that any, any new topic that comes before the Council 00:50:39
ought to start in a working session. 00:50:44
Before it proceeds to the business agenda where a vote is taken. 00:50:49
And at least that way that the public would have a couple of weeks to, you know, to digest what they've heard, lobby the council 00:50:53
how they want to do and, and, and you'd have a better chance of having a more informed citizenry when it comes time for your vote. 00:51:01
I think that would be very helpful. 00:51:10
And the cases where there's a public hearing required, I think the additional step of, you know, starting the starting with a 00:51:13
working session as before, but the second meeting going to public hearing where you'd actually take comments and you have a 00:51:20
chance. And then and then not put it on as a business item, but as a separate public hearing. So that so that indeed those 00:51:27
comments can be other comments can be taken and absorbed and. 00:51:35
By the council and thought about and so that you come back next session as a business item. You can then act upon that item. I 00:51:43
know that spread it out a little bit takes it across three sessions, but I think that that would open up the process in a way that 00:51:50
the public would better understand what's happening and better appreciate the efforts that you're making to, to help them stay 00:51:57
informed and appreciate the gravity of the situations and so forth and understand also. 00:52:05
And I also along with that, I appreciate. 00:52:12
You having a city attorney speak about sometimes the differences between the roles that you have to fill. So so I understand 00:52:16
there's a difference between the between executive and legislative type things and you sometimes a force of both a certain way and 00:52:22
explanation. That's really helpful. So that's what I'd like to ask the council to do. Thank you. All right, thank you. 00:52:29
All right. We'll go ahead and close the public comment. I'll just address a few things. David, thank you for bringing that up. I 00:52:40
hope that you've noticed on our agenda that we're doing, we are continuing that to introduce the topic and we're doing the work 00:52:46
sessions today. We talked about two of those things and trying to make it so that we are having those discussions and then 00:52:52
bringing them back to let you engage and have additional time. So I'm I'm glad that that is working. 00:52:58
We also feel this way, this need to have people. 00:53:06
Get the most ability to present their voice to us. Last year we did four town halls. This year we'll be doing that again. Last 00:53:10
year we did two community manager meetings. This year we'll be doing that again. And hopefully we'll continue to facilitate those 00:53:16
conversations where you do have the ability to talk in a different manner than we do when we're conducting business. And then 00:53:22
providing those extra, extra meetings where we present the topic so that you can come and meet with us individually if you need 00:53:28
to. 00:53:34
He didn't bring up something that hopefully, Eric, we can touch base with Josh Daniels and make sure that he gets the information 00:53:42
that he needs on the RDA. 00:53:45
I will. I don't know. Jake, did you have anything that you wanted to? OK, I'll take about one or two minutes. 00:54:24
I first want to apologize to the council and the mayor. I know Jamie helped us work together and put together a special City 00:54:33
Council procedure and process has never been in place before and. 00:54:39
Honestly, we wanted to make sure that that was open so that everyone could participate. I know we threw a ton of different dates 00:54:47
out there and it was not our intent to. 00:54:52
Rush through that I know it took a while to work through the code and I felt like it came off bad on my part and I just wanted to 00:54:58
make sure that moving forward Sarah and I want to try and do those as open and give many weeks notice on on those and also be more 00:55:04
open to never do want to thank staff for doing. 00:55:11
Coming on a Saturday and on a weekend, but that special, special sessions were really good for us. I want to report back on the 00:55:18
two special sessions that we had on Saturday and Monday. Sarah and I learned a lot just opening it up. Whether they voted for us 00:55:25
or they didn't. It was really helpful for the amount of citizens that came and we just got to got to learn. 00:55:32
Also just a return and thank you from the department heads from the off site yesterday. You know, I just want to apologize for not 00:55:40
understanding that it was a budgetary meeting. 00:55:46
And also just implore like I don't, I don't know why we haven't gotten the budget like the 2023 exact, but you know, when we asked 00:55:52
for that in December, we weren't sworn in yet. And, and going over a budget, we've got to go over the exact of where things went 00:56:00
on each budget and really touch it. And we weren't prepared yesterday for that. And I don't know why we were. It's usually a best 00:56:07
practice when we when. 00:56:14
Certification goes in that in good faith, they give that information out in December. 00:56:22
So me and Sarah need to get that so that we can go over on a vendor level. 00:56:29
Basis on the budget cuz we we still don't have that and it would really help us to prepare for the budget. 00:56:38
I don't know if that takes a vote from us to get that. 00:56:43
Or. 00:56:48
So in December 6th when we got sport, when we got certified, I just sent over a line item of all vendors paid for the year for 00:57:27
2023 just to understand where all the money is going. You know you have a budget, then you actually have actuals right of like 00:57:33
what it was and broke it. If we could break it down by department so you could actually see how much is going where then it then 00:57:39
when you do the budget, you're like, OK, I get what what we spend on this technology, that type of stuff. 00:57:45
In our procurement software, it should have something pretty deep like that. It's usually an almost all of them, but. 00:57:53
So I don't want to take too much time on that. So hold on one second because I am asking for clarity for a second. 00:58:00
I guess I would just request that we have clarity on what it is you're looking for, because the budget itself, as Mayor pointed 00:58:10
out, is available to everyone and anyone on the website that goes into pretty detailed line items for each department of what was 00:58:19
approved last year, a list of all the vendors that the city has paid in 2023 or fiscal year 2023 was sent to you. 00:58:27
The specific dollar amounts for each of those just takes wedding through and making sure that we're giving you information that is 00:58:36
publicly available that there's certain elements of that expense list. 00:58:42
That has privacy associated with it. That's just a total dollar amount. That's fine. I don't need like who it's paying for, but 00:58:49
just a list of vendors is inadequate. We need to know like. 00:58:54
How much each vendor was paid? Like a total dollar amount? 00:59:01
I don't know why. 00:59:05
Just a little, I think that information I. 00:59:08
I think there's a difference between budget information, which is public and is all there. 00:59:12
And certain expense information that is for certain vendors proprietary because they're bidding in a competitive environment, 00:59:17
right, But for a City Council member. So I think for the information that's proprietary, what might be best is to give you access 00:59:23
but not. 00:59:29
The documents themselves, and I'm sure Eric can arrange for that and that you can go through that information. There's other 00:59:36
information that we've talked about offline and I don't. 00:59:43
Know that we need to bring it up in an open meeting, but there are. 00:59:50
There's some history to it and some personal reasons where we had to verify and make sure that it was appropriate to give you 00:59:54
access to that. I think we're to the point where we understand well, it's actually just not vendor, it's all vendors. Just 01:00:01
understanding like, hey, this is helpful from a procurement standpoint. That's kind of my background in government procurement. So 01:00:07
it really helps me understand what are all the vendors that we use and how and. 01:00:13
The total dollar amount, OK, so the last thing, the next thing I wanted to go through is. 01:00:22
I think you got an update from Eric on it. And then what they'll do is they'll gather that data and they'll send it out and then 01:01:01
they'll talk about the retreat and they'll do that all together. So thank you. Can we, can we post that? It's called a Qualtrics 01:01:07
CSV file. Can we post the raw data? They make that shareable to a public file. I don't know. We'll go back and look at what that 01:01:14
is. You know more about it because you work there so. 01:01:20
We'll we'll find out and we'll, we'll come back to that. And then my last thing is. 01:01:29
What I learned from citizens in the and Sarah was there as well, but the need for more public comments. I did send over an agenda 01:01:34
of things that I would like to work with in overcoming some of the cities issues and problems in the last couple years and you 01:01:40
know I put a lot of thought I.