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Testing. Testing. 00:00:00
Welcome everybody. It's a lot of you. Oh, we've got some feedback on the. 00:00:14
Hello. 00:00:25
OK. 00:00:27
Yep. 00:00:30
Testing. 00:00:35
It's moving. OK, let me see. 00:00:36
All right. So actually, before we move into the regular session, there were a couple of questions. Thank you. Thank you, Daria and 00:01:06
Christy for pointing that out to me. There were a couple of questions that you guys had from the public hearings and I'll ask 00:01:12
those right now for just a couple of questions. What exactly is an Mai appraisal? 00:01:18
You guys want? 00:01:25
And that's Jamie. 00:01:31
The looks and brains of our operations. So he usually does this, but I'll try to handle this best I can so. 00:01:37
It's just an appraisal from a firm that. 00:01:43
Has a license to do appraisals. And the reason for that is not on your end. It's actually on our end when we donate property to 00:01:47
the city, like we're planning on doing in this instance, which we don't have to do by the way. We don't, we don't have to donate 00:01:51
right of way. 00:01:55
This is about. 00:02:00
You know, I can't remember the exact acreage, but it's plus it's above 10 acres that we'd just be donating to the city here for 00:02:01
the Mill Road right away. We donated the southern portion about a year and a half ago as well. 00:02:07
And the 1600 N right away we also donated. 00:02:13
For us, the donation. 00:02:16
Can't remember Sarah here. Maybe she stepped out. She was the one that asked that. 00:02:19
But it's just the donation is just literally us taking something and donating it to the city and the city saying yes, we accept 00:02:24
this and we want this. 00:02:28
Obviously we can't donate to property someone. 00:02:32
To someone who doesn't want it or accept it. So we sign an agreement saying. 00:02:35
We. 00:02:39
We will donate this property to you and you sign the agreement saying we want to accept this property and then I think sorry also 00:02:40
asked a question about maintenance of the road, I believe was the question. 00:02:45
So. So Mill Rd. is the City Rd. It's always been contemplated to be a City Rd. just like the one to the South, so we'll donate it. 00:02:50
And the city can will maintain it long term that snow removal, et cetera. When it needs a slurry seal the city, the city will do 00:02:58
that in the future. 00:03:01
So I think. 00:03:06
Questions. Cool. Great. There was actually one more question as far as smaller parcels, why come at this as a whole thing instead 00:03:07
of going? That's a good question. I think that there's been a lot of. 00:03:13
Discussion tonight about us trying to rush something through. I think what we're saying is this. 00:03:18
If everyone remembers, we were looking at doing a master plan on this side and we, as in MAG, the state of Utah, had a requirement 00:03:23
around frontrunner stations to do what they call a station area plan that has more residential and some of these other uses. 00:03:29
We thought. 00:03:35
Talking with council and staff and everybody that trying to get that done by the end of the year would be very inappropriate. 00:03:37
So that there will be more of a discussion on this piece of property next year as we all sit down and say, OK, what is the best 00:03:44
use of this is, is there something better than what the city's always envisioned? And to Keith's point about property tax revenue, 00:03:49
we agree one of the uses that was added tonight was a warehouse club. I don't know if you guys, you know that's a, we can't get 00:03:55
into specifics because of some Ndas and things, but a warehouse club? 00:04:00
Sam's Club or a Costco or. 00:04:08
Et cetera and some of these users. 00:04:11
Like this area? 00:04:15
But they won't negotiate with us and there are other places where some of those warehouse clubs are looking. 00:04:16
There's hospitals that are wanting to be here, but they don't want to come. If we came in here with five acres and said can we 00:04:22
zone a hospital right here? 00:04:25
Invest that and you guys would all shake your head and say absolutely can we vest 5 acres right here and do a warehouse club and 00:04:28
everyone shakes their head. 00:04:32
Those groups won't continue to negotiate with. 00:04:35
If it's not master planned around them with similar uses, A hospital doesn't want to come in here and know that next door they 00:04:39
could be potentially next to a mink farm. So having an area that says okay, this whole area here can be medical use because you 00:04:45
like to cluster around each other. A warehouse use a warehouse. 00:04:50
Club would like to come here and be around other retail users. 00:04:57
Around office users, et cetera. So there will be and. 00:05:02
I agree with the optics of coming in here and trying, which was an option. We had already been plant studying, that had been had 00:05:06
been to Vineyard days and Sasaki has been working on a big plan for the last six months. 00:05:12
And it was planned, if you remember to. 00:05:18
Voted on around this time had nothing to do with election. It was just how that that plan worked out. We said let's press pause on 00:05:21
that because trying to get that plan through right now seemed inappropriate and rushed. That discussion will continue with the 00:05:27
Planning Commission and City Council next year. 00:05:32
OK. 00:05:40
All right, and just to clarify, mink farms are not allowed in any of the zoning in in vineyards, so. 00:05:41
Correctly. 00:05:50
Currently, yeah, we can get one. 00:05:51
There's a big demand out there. 00:05:54
Cool. So this is. Oh, sorry, I'll let. 00:05:56
Just seeing if there. 00:05:59
Looking through my questions real. 00:06:01
In Portland. 00:06:04
Pur. 00:06:05
It's It's just like a doctor's an MDA lawyer's. A JDMAI is the. 00:06:13
When you get an appraisal, they're recognized as licensed to do the work. 00:06:19
So when they take the land, they're donating to the IRS and say it's worth. 00:06:24
They have to have an appraisal by a certified appraiser that says it's worth X and that's what it means. It has no relationship at 00:06:28
all that the city saying. 00:06:33
We're willing to accept this property we it's going to be a. 00:06:38
Cool. 00:06:44
Great. All right. Moving on to the regular session. 00:06:44
So right now, we'll move into an open session. This is a time for people to make public comments. Limited to 3 minutes. 00:06:49
And Tay has her timer for 3 minutes. 00:06:57
And these are for comments on things that are not on the agenda. If you want to make a comment, limit it to 3 minutes and we'll go 00:07:00
from there. 00:07:05
Make sure you state your name and which neighborhood you're from. 00:07:09
And it's open right now. 00:07:14
All right. 00:07:19
Seeing as there are no comments for the open session, we'll move into consent items for the PC minutes. The only thing that I 00:07:20
noticed was my name was spelled wrong on one of them, so just. 00:07:25
Yeah. So we got that. We're covered on that. 00:07:30
And then do I have a motion to approve the consent items? 00:07:34
Yeah, I moved to approve the consent items as presented with the change of Bryce's name. All right. Do I have a second? 00:07:38
Second, all in favor? Aye. All right. Moving on to business item 5.1. Discussion and action for the zoning text, amendment, 00:07:45
medical and commercial uses. 00:07:50
So this is something that we just discussed that we just had a public hearing for. Are there any other questions from the 00:07:55
Commission? I just I had the one thing that we wanted you to look at a little closer, it was the heliport slash very port, would 00:08:00
you like to? 00:08:05
It's. 00:08:11
Oh, I'm sorry. 00:08:12
All right, I'll try to talk loud. OK, so the heliport vert report as a conditional use or. 00:08:24
Thank you. Or a permitted use. And so that was one of those questions is it's kind of delayed. I think it's better just to talk 00:08:32
loud. 00:08:38
So a discussion as to whether that would be a permitted use or a conditional use. The conditional use gives you kind of another 00:08:45
layer where you may add a few conditions. We felt like that might be an appropriate one, but also a permitted use could work as 00:08:51
well. You do have a lot of land there. 00:08:57
You're not right up against residential. 00:09:04
The other thing as well, and I Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a heliport or Verdi port both require another layer of 00:09:07
regulation through the FAA. 00:09:11
And so, and that's another one of those uses that's not just a city review. 00:09:15
So. 00:09:21
Any comments from the Commission? 00:09:22
Personally, I don't have. 00:09:24
Preference. I mean, helicopters aren't flying out a ton, and if they are then they're flying out for a good purpose, so I don't 00:09:25
have any. 00:09:28
OK. Is there anything else? Yeah. Then in that case then I would suggest a permitted use would be appropriate and I would just 00:09:33
have that in your motion. 00:09:36
Would it? Would it be like? 00:09:41
Teleport specifically designated for hospital use or also for recreational. 00:09:43
So in this area being an employment zone, you might get someone who is so. 00:09:50
It's mainly going to be for a hospital use. 00:09:56
So potentially a company could come in like. 00:10:33
Amazon, let's say, and they want to do drone deliveries and. 00:10:35
There. 00:10:39
Permitted use if we allow. 00:10:40
Yeah, yeah. I mean they're like I said, they'd still go through the site plan process and then that's where you could ask for, you 00:10:43
know, FAA. 00:10:48
Approvals and you'd be able to check it there. Traditional use though, would allow you to if you felt that there could be an 00:10:54
impact. 00:10:57
You know to to like surrounding properties. Typically conditional uses are when you're putting something adjacent to residential 00:11:02
and that's most of the time we're all seeing conditions from a conditional use for the Planning Commission will. I'm wondering if 00:11:08
that's something we could write in there because. 00:11:13
The RC at the. 00:11:19
Bumps up next to the forge, which is going to be residential. 00:11:21
And. 00:11:26
So if there's a way that we can. 00:11:27
Write it into. 00:11:30
For the RC that it needs to be so far away from the residential areas that. 00:11:32
That would be my preference. I mean also on the other side of the track, just from the vineyard downtown, the Utah City stuff. So 00:11:39
maybe we should just make it a conditional. You could just make a conditional. I mean, I don't imagine as taste as you say within 00:11:45
if it's within 500 feet of a residential use, it has to go through a conditional use permit or you could just say conditional use. 00:11:51
I mean really the from a timing standpoint it's about the same. 00:11:57
Because they would go through the Planning Commission would be a dual application site plan, then the conditional use and that 00:12:04
would allow you to assign some conditions to help. 00:12:08
Mitigate any detriments that the use may have. I'm fine with it either way. Sure, I just want to. 00:12:14
Mitigate the potential of a developer coming in and saying. 00:12:20
We want the helicopter. 00:12:24
May we please have conditional use? 00:12:26
It would be nice if that wasn't an option too close to residential. 00:12:32
I mean making it a conditional use that they have to meet certain conditions that we would come. 00:12:37
Noise Ordinance and the like. 00:12:45
Yeah, yeah. We have code that kind of outlines within our conditional use permit code where you can assign conditions and so 00:12:48
something like that I would get with Jamie and we would look at the site and say OK what potentially. 00:12:55
Are the detriments and then what are some lawful conditions because I mean it doesn't mean you can just say or put anything on it, 00:13:03
but you have to still follow kind of the guidelines within our conditional use permit ordinance, Okay. That's right. OK, Thank 00:13:09
you. So I think either way it would work. One thing you may do is provide a carve out for hospitals. Hospitals are a permit of 00:13:15
use, hospital heliports typically are. 00:13:20
An ancillary use to a hospital and they go through all the all the regulations where you may get something that is going to have 00:13:27
an impact. Could be just like a commercial business where it's someone who wants to put like a you know a helipad on top of their 00:13:32
building I. 00:13:36
And that's something we would do in a future meeting. 00:13:42
You could make a recommendation to if we were to make it a conditional use. 00:13:45
The conditions would be, was that something that would come to the Planning Commission as to making those, Yeah, yeah. So if it 00:13:53
was conditional use, they would apply for conditional use permit, they would dual site plan, conditional use, they do that at the 00:13:57
same time and then you'd be able to sign conditions, OK. 00:14:02
Do I have? 00:14:08
Does anybody feel strongly either way? 00:14:10
I can move. Can I express some reservation first? So I sure. And it. I mean, this doesn't necessarily dictate the way I'm gonna 00:14:18
vote. But I'm still I'm. I'm very uncomfortable. 00:14:23
I know Pids are separate, inland Port Authority is separate. I try to get some clarification between the meeting, but when we 00:14:29
upzone a property we're going to increase tax revenue that could come from that property like that was first lesson I I learned on 00:14:34
the on the Commission is we need tax revenue coming in. 00:14:39
And I still And then and then we're going to best rights. 00:14:44
And then there's a PID which you know in principle is really good. 00:14:47
And then an inland Port Authority is entirely separate and it all impacts tax revenue that could come from it and it could be good 00:14:51
or it could be bad. 00:14:55
I and I've read all the agreements. I read all the laws last night. I am still slightly uncomfortable in planning of how are we 00:14:59
planning for the tax revenue because I don't know what's envisioned. 00:15:05
At. 00:15:11
And that's my reservation here. 00:15:12
This is new. There's real tax impacts. 00:15:15
And it doesn't mean I'm going to vote one way or another, but I'm I wish there was a little more. 00:15:18
Info of what is the vision here that's coming so that we understood? 00:15:24
How is this going to be build out? How is this going to support the infrastructure? Obviously it needs to be built out, needs to 00:15:28
be built out downtown, needs to be built out in this area. You need the up zoning to bring the businesses. 00:15:33
But it's not good planning if we. 00:15:39
You know have all the info. 00:15:42
I don't know if anybody can make some comments on the big picture strategy. 00:15:46
Yeah. I mean if you want to talk about your big picture, I would just say from a zoning standpoint, a lot of times that the zoning 00:15:51
gets put in place and then that that gives you that the predictability that you're then able to do the master planning. And 00:15:57
because a lot of it's going to be based off of what you know who who you can attract there and that's that's where the zoning is, 00:16:04
is really critical. But if you want to provide higher vision stuff, that's. 00:16:10
Pete Evans again with the developer. So all of those things. 00:16:20
Could. 00:16:24
On the same piece of property, but they're all independent. 00:16:26
Mutually exclusive. 00:16:29
The zoning doesn't have anything to do with a PID or the inland port. 00:16:32
The ability. 00:16:37
The designation of what you can do on the property is the zoning. 00:16:39
That gives you. 00:16:43
The guidelines of what has to happen to develop the property. 00:16:45
But that's independent of. 00:16:50
Not related to a PID or the Inland Port Authority. 00:16:53
So if up zoning was done, I'm all for the up zoning. I think these are great facilities. 00:16:57
But then vesting their rights immediately. 00:17:04
You know, there's a little concern there expressed around that 'cause even compared to downtown, we're very early in the project 00:17:07
there, but we'd be investing these new rights. 00:17:10
That we'd up zone tonight so that so that those two are connected at least even taking pit and inland poured out. 00:17:15
So what is your view as if you do up zone tonight? 00:17:20
But you don't invest, is that enough to still 'cause, I mean, it's in the zoning, hospitals get built and other stuff all the time 00:17:24
with without a master plan. Is that enough? 00:17:28
To start those conversations and. 00:17:33
Have a next step in the process to best rights? Yeah. So the short answer is no. I think that they ought to be vested. 00:17:36
Immediately. 00:17:46
The reason is when you. 00:17:47
When? 00:17:49
Tenants who want to be here. 00:17:50
Their first question is do you have vested development rights? 00:17:52
So if the answer is no. 00:17:55
I mean, they have a. 00:17:58
Window of when they're looking on their site selection, right? 00:18:00
And this takes a very, very long period of time. 00:18:05
To start and end these discussions. 00:18:08
And so the more clarity that you can give and certainty that you can give. 00:18:11
The more likely you are to be able to develop it with the tenant that you want. 00:18:15
Oh yeah. 00:18:23
Mac would be. 00:18:29
The reason why divesting the rights is really important. So say you have the warehouse club that wants to come to your site. We 00:18:34
can talk to that warehouse club and they may look at our site, but they want to know that they're going into a shopping center 00:18:37
where? 00:18:41
Other Co tenants are also going to exist and they'll look for those Co tenant rights and make sure that's all in place. And so 00:18:46
this is just the beginning. This is really pretty normal. This is the starting stage of us saying OK, well let's go and make sure. 00:18:51
This group of uses can be done on this site. 00:18:58
And then from there we'll go spend, you know in addition to what the city we've been working on with the overall master plan for 00:19:00
the area, lots of money master planning, it's it's an expensive, it's a time consuming process, but it's not just to work with you 00:19:05
guys, it's also to work with all those retailers and those users to make sure that they are believing. 00:19:11
The. 00:19:16
The following uses and the fact that this will be a regional hub that will draw people to shop. 00:19:18
Use those facilities. 00:19:22
This is really just the first stage as they was saying in that in the process of approvals. But if we do want to get keep going 00:19:24
with the conversations that we have in place right now showing them that hey, you can come here. 00:19:30
There's this hospital use, but it also is retail that, you know, it's not just industrial. We've got to really start with this 00:19:36
first stage of saying, hey, here's this list of vested uses that are going to be. 00:19:40
In and around. 00:19:44
Here's these initial site plans. We still have to come back to your body and approve those site plans and go through that process 00:19:45
at that time as well. 00:19:49
I am also very empathetic to the voices here and I think everybody would end up supporting. 00:20:25
You know these two aspects, I mean, what is your view on if it did get help? 00:20:31
A month. I mean, is there a delay and having more communication about it or an issue with that of saying let's have more meetings, 00:20:37
let's discuss it. 00:20:41
I think. 00:20:45
The hard thing is, is that we have been working through this bigger master plan for a while and so going back and reporting to the 00:20:47
users that we're already talking to that that's been. 00:20:51
That's actually not being approved this fall is a is a hit to us. And So what we're trying to do is report back to them that hey, 00:20:55
just like we said, we we now have these vested rights. We're continuing to work with you. 00:21:00
Not just the HCI growth and the stuff we're doing with you and the medical users and some of that stuff, but really also this 00:21:05
retail stuff at the same time. 00:21:09
They were expecting us to get that in front of them. We have ICSE late spring, which is really when we sit down with a lot of 00:21:13
these retailers and at that time. 00:21:17
We've got a lot of steps to go through with the new council and everybody to get this master plan approved. 00:21:20
And so. 00:21:25
A critical first step of that whole process? I don't. 00:21:26
Think this is rushing in any way I think this is. 00:21:29
If we want any chance of being ready by, you know, may for ICSE and if you want to continue. 00:21:32
In good faith with a lot of these retailers and whatnot that we're talking to then we need to. 00:21:37
Show them that we're making progress, and show them that there's things that are happening on our side too, not just delays. 00:21:41
Then they go look somewhere else. 00:21:47
The only thanks, Matt. The only thing that I would add to that is that we're sympathetic and understand. 00:21:51
Like David said, the optics as well. 00:21:56
Our intention with. 00:21:59
Not changing any of the zoning, Not changing any of the land use designations. 00:22:01
You know, not changing any of the boundary lines of what was what on the general plan or even the the existing zoning plan. 00:22:06
Was to be the opposite, to be very non controversial. 00:22:13
And say this is a very this has been in place for years and years and years. 00:22:16
So this shouldn't. 00:22:20
There shouldn't be a controversial approval and it gives us a baseline to continue to talk to these people while we work with for 00:22:22
something. 00:22:27
Bigger master plan, more detailed master plan in the future. 00:22:31
Thanks, Pete. Thank you. Any other questions, Chris? No. 00:22:38
Did anybody have any questions on whether they would like to make a motion and have the permitted use for the? 00:22:43
Hel. 00:22:49
For a conditional, use for the help. 00:22:51
Is a helipad and vertiport, vertiport and helipad. 00:22:53
I move to recommend approval of Ordinance 2023-30. Medical and Commercial Zoning uses the City Council with. 00:23:02
Helipad. 00:23:13
Ver. 00:23:15
As conditional use. 00:23:18
Do I have? 00:23:21
I second. Second. All right, all in favor. And this will need to be. 00:23:29
Marco, Yeah. 00:23:34
Fred I I Tay. 00:23:40
Great. 00:23:43
All right. All right. That. 00:23:44
Moving on to item. 00:23:47
5.2 at the Homesteads Pod One live work development agreement. 00:23:52
So again, we just talked about this and had discussions on this. 00:23:57
Were there things that anybody wanted to see changed? Are there things that you would like more clarification on? 00:24:02
Did we, you had mentioned the parking management? 00:24:11
Jamie, we're recopying what was in the Forge to move over to that or that that's something we'll have to change to have them do a 00:24:14
parking management. You would have to amend it if you wanted as robust as what was in the Forge. It's a different scale 00:24:19
development. There are some parking management provisions in the agreement but they're not identical to the Forge. My concern is, 00:24:24
is still just that on on street parking aspect. 00:24:29
And I mean, you know, especially with the accident that occurred. 00:24:35
This is something Brad know. I think the project should move forward, but just how do we manage that? 00:24:39
A bit more to make sure that that parking is going to work and if it's not going to. 00:24:45
Can use to put more parking Something you could do if you wanted to address that is to ask for and if there is a specific title in 00:24:49
the same if you're in here let me know but a parking safety study by a by a certified engineer that's something that you could 00:24:56
have submitted. What we received from from Gilson engineering was more of a preliminary kind of advisory type type letter as as he 00:25:04
has has kind of been experiencing it but if you wanted. 00:25:11
An engineer to. 00:25:19
To analyze the street parking and the safety and and to provide some recommendations, that's something that you could put in the 00:25:20
development agreement. 00:25:26
That, you know, at least you would have it kind of scoped down a little further. I mean how, how, how confident is community 00:25:32
development that there's not going to be any issues with this and that this model of parking is going to work? 00:25:38
Yeah, I. 00:25:45
I mean nothing is is you know, free, free of issue. So I don't want to say it be 100%. I mean even without what I'm saying, what 00:25:46
we would require is for engineer drawings that are done by professionals with your certificates that work closely with our city 00:25:53
engineer and with the with the Planning Commission. And then they they would bring in drawings and so it would have to meet, you 00:25:59
know, the Traffic Safety requirements. If you wanted something to do a deeper dive you you could request that within the 00:26:05
development agreement. 00:26:12
I think that's appropriate. It would just kind of add another layer for the property owner to go through. Could we add that in? 00:26:19
I mean, keep it somewhat generic, but the private or the Planning Commission will. 00:26:26
Review the parking and just the the, I guess it would be parking and parking management. Yeah, I want to make sure I understand 00:26:31
your concern before we kinda target it with language. Are you concerned about? 00:26:37
Safety as it relates to the on street parking or are you? 00:26:44
People running, people walking. 00:26:53
People stopping on the Northside. 00:26:55
To access those front doors, so people that will be coming in and out. So when you say capacity, you're not talking about the 00:26:57
quantity of parking stalls relative to the development, you're talking about how it relates to. 00:27:04
Other transportation modes in that area. 00:27:12
OK. 00:27:16
And the impact it may have of, I mean I'm still imagining. 00:27:17
You get there on a Saturday morning, you have people pulling in and out, you're going to have people driving by, they're going to 00:27:21
be leaving soccer games. 00:27:24
I I can see scenarios where there's just a lot of just even stand still. So I think we're talking about. 00:27:29
Two things one. 00:27:35
Visibility standards and the engineering standards that relate to where the parking is located and where. 00:27:38
Pedestrian movements occur. 00:27:43
And then I think the other thing you're talking about is more. 00:27:45
Site circulation and how that relates to adjacent uses and this is me just trying to. 00:27:50
Use Planner and engineering speak for what we're trying to achieve. 00:27:56
And I guess I'm going to look to the developer and justice see is that an acceptable condition at the site plan that we look at 00:28:01
those two things, we'll look at circulation and then we'll look at. 00:28:07
Orientation of that parking. 00:28:13
You can do some things with that that can help with pedestrian sidelines like you can. 00:28:16
If you have to have parking near entrances and exits, you can. 00:28:23
Restrict that parking to compact vehicles and not, you know, then you. 00:28:26
Big trucks where if a kids coming out, you don't see them until they're in the roadway. 00:28:31
You can adjust, you know, distances, turn movements, that kind of thing. 00:28:38
Jamie could. 00:28:43
Maybe while we're having discussion maybe kind of help us with with some language, I appreciate that. So something something I can 00:28:44
have an issue with is for these 56 units that have storefront. 00:28:50
Having their parking on the street, I'm totally fine with that. And having that kind of shared parking where the city owns part of 00:28:56
it and the developer owns part of it, I'm fine with. I do have. 00:29:02
Some issues. 00:29:09
That same parking, the street parking where it's partially owned by the city and partially owned by the developer being for 00:29:11
residential use. 00:29:14
Where I think that it should be specifically for the business use. 00:29:19
If there's a possibility to have? 00:29:24
Street parking for that kind of use, I would be more in favor of that, or even just getting it out of the public right of way. 00:29:28
I'd be more in favor of that and then the other. 00:29:37
Was that having a condition having? 00:29:42
A limit as to how? 00:29:45
None. 00:29:48
Owner. 00:29:49
Employees are on site, I think is important. I don't know the exact number that would be good, but I think that this might be good 00:29:51
for you to come up and we can for that number of employees and stuff. Do you have any? 00:29:57
Because you do have a limitation on the occupancy for three. 00:30:08
Sorry, Mike. 00:30:14
I mean it's 3. 00:30:18
Off site employees to. 00:30:21
I'd probably hold it too. 00:30:22
I mean, my parking issues are more important to me than they are to the city, because if I can't park my residence, I'm going to 00:30:25
be in trouble and it's an economic situation for me. 00:30:31
I'd probably be OK to limit it to two employees. Period. 00:30:38
And you? I've made it clear. 00:30:44
Off site employ. 00:30:46
Yeah. 00:30:48
In regards to the parking question. 00:30:51
I'd have to really think about how the site lays out, whether or not I can shove the units around and get parking off the street. 00:30:55
Roughly, this was about 300 to $400,000 to rebuild that road, and I've already built it once and gave it to the city. 00:31:05
And I'm not. 00:31:14
Too excited about rebuilding it again. 00:31:15
But we could certainly look at some areas. 00:31:19
Whether or not I can get parking in some of the off sites. 00:31:23
We've not, and I know somebody here has said that they built them before. 00:31:28
I'm not aware of anything like this in Utah. 00:31:32
Where you have live work units, but I'm not aware of any development who is restricted. 00:31:37
Work environment to the residential environment. 00:31:44
I mean our whole deal was, is we didn't want to have issues between the commercial user on the main floor and the residents above 00:31:49
or vice versa. So in our CC and ours that will be controlled by the HOA. 00:31:56
The licensing that we've talked about with the city. 00:32:04
Is never have an occasion where who's ever running that operation on the main floor is not the resident. 00:32:08
So that would be detrimental to what we're trying to create over there. 00:32:16
Oh. 00:32:23
Yeah. 00:32:24
And something that I did appreciate with this with the parking on the street and how narrow the street is. 00:32:24
Will slow things down. Like if you're trying to get through there quick, it's going to make it harder for sure because. 00:32:32
With the parking on the street and with it being that narrow, it's going to be hard to drive fast, which is a bonus for anybody 00:32:37
that's walking. Because if people are afraid that they're going to hit another car or the afraid that the road is narrow so they 00:32:43
have to pay lots of attention, they're going to be a lot more likely to see pedestrians. And having those flashers on both of the 00:32:48
crosswalks, I think, I think that those are all really good things. And on top of that, having the trail that goes along, the 00:32:54
whole north side that wraps around. 00:33:00
Going South and NI think will all be benefits for pedestrians. Trying to go through this area and a slower speed on this road 00:33:07
helps everybody helps me as a developer, helps the residents, it helps my contractors deliveries, it helps everybody if we can 00:33:14
solve that traffic down. And I mean people, people speed, but I mean. 00:33:20
People could speed through a residential neighborhood where the speed limit is 25 and they shouldn't go. 00:33:28
They shouldn't go faster than that and it's super dangerous because kids are playing in the road. 00:33:33
People just need to obey the law and we need to do as much as we can. 00:33:39
To make it so that it's uncomfortable to drive faster than that. And I think that by having parking on the road and by. 00:33:44
Having a narrow Rd. makes it uncomfortable to drive at faster speeds. 00:33:52
OK. OK. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Can I suggest language that you might include in your motion, please to recommend Section two of 00:33:58
the agreement is where it talks about the parking requirements. And So what I would propose is that you insert a sentence that 00:34:02
says. 00:34:07
The site plan for the project shall be informed. 00:34:13
By. 00:34:16
Analysis performed by a qualified transportation engineer. 00:34:17
Of parking locations, orientation, and site circulation relative to pedestrian and bicycle movement on adjacent streets, 00:34:22
sidewalks, and trails. 00:34:25
Does that accomplish what? 00:34:30
What you're after? 00:34:32
I. 00:34:34
Then he can look at that analysis, modify the site plan and the parking accordingly. I think there are some softer things you can 00:34:35
do that. 00:34:39
Not reduce the number of stalls, but. 00:34:43
Place certain types of vehicles in certain locations and orientations. That will help with visibility and other things. 00:34:46
OK. And then also the condition for maximum of two off-site employees? 00:34:53
I'm good with that, yeah. 00:35:02
OK. 00:35:04
Do I have a motion? 00:35:05
I can move, I might need a little bit help with OK. 00:35:14
The wording you can just say as stated as stated. OK, I move to recommend approval of Resolution 2023-30, Homesteads Pod 1050 God. 00:35:16
2023-50 Homesteads Pod One Live Work Units Development agreement to the City Council as stated. 00:35:30
With the conditions as stated. 00:35:39
Second all in favor? Oh, this is Rocco Chris. 00:35:43
Brad Aye, Aye. Tay aye, Grayden aye. That moves forward. Moving on to Item 5.3. Discussion in Action for the East Geneva Land 00:35:47
Donation and Development Agreement Resolution 2023, Dash 51. 00:35:53
Again, this is something that we talked about at length. 00:36:00
Were there? 00:36:03
Comments or questions from the Commission. 00:36:05
Is there any way to vote on this resolution? 00:36:10
In next week's meeting, when we just learn a little bit more about what's coming with the future of that area possibly. Are we 00:36:15
meeting next week? 00:36:18
On the 13th, so it would be a question of could we coordinate that with the Council to learn more. 00:36:23
And then vote on the resolution, I mean. 00:36:28
To me, my understanding is this. 00:36:31
We're not actually changing anything. We're just offering guarantees on the land as their zones. We did just up zone it. 00:36:33
And then we are investing those rights immediately and and there's no doubt we are very early in the process and you need to vest 00:36:40
the rights to do the master planning. 00:36:43
But I mean, I mean say. 00:36:48
And I'm going to mention it because it's out there saying inland port does come, you know, as it's written in what was on the 00:36:50
Vineyard website. 00:36:53
You know, there's what is it? 75% of the revenue tax revenue would stay locally and then 25% goes out and it gets distributed to, 00:36:56
you know, to the city, to the Alpine School District there. There's an impact on taxes and that's part of the general plan. 00:37:03
I just don't know how. 00:37:09
Make decisions. 00:37:11
For that long term, invest those rights without understanding. 00:37:13
What is actually happening? And I will actually say I feel. 00:37:17
I I I don't feel necessarily uncomfortable. I do feel like it's rushed. 00:37:20
So I guess question next week when they have the when they're talking about the inland port? 00:37:26
If we don't approve this now, they could still approve an inland port for this area and it would. 00:37:32
Right. 00:37:38
So I guess my question for you Chris is, is there something in? 00:37:39
Land donation and development agreement. 00:37:46
You're not comfortable with I. 00:37:49
The inland port could happen whether or not the rights are vested. Is there something that you're not comfortable with in them 00:37:51
having vested rights? 00:37:55
Well, I mean this is just approval of the resolution anyway and referral to the council. I just, I I don't think it's appropriate 00:37:59
to. 00:38:03
You know nested without understanding truly what's going on with the property and the planning aspect of everything coming on it 00:38:08
to to recommend vesting the rights without knowing a little bit more like we were planning on big tax revenue from that. What's 00:38:15
the impact, what's the impact if it if there really is that it's a decrease in tax revenue going back to the city. I think it's a 00:38:21
valid question and and and we don't necessarily know the answer to that. OK and I agree that. 00:38:28
It is nice to have. 00:38:37
More of an idea of what's going to happen if there is going to be any kind of. 00:38:40
PID or Inland Port Authority that it would be nice to know that further ahead of time, but. 00:38:44
Uh. 00:38:51
With this and with the general plan. 00:38:51
I feel that this matches the general plan and. 00:38:55
Whether or not there is a PID or an inland Port Authority, I think that having. 00:38:59
This kind of zoning in that area is beneficial for the city. 00:39:05
Even despite those things. 00:39:09
But I can see how you're uncomfortable with wanting to. 00:39:11
Move this forward. 00:39:16
Does anybody else have any questions or comments or something? 00:39:19
If. 00:39:23
No, I think the the intention. 00:39:24
And what we? 00:39:27
Influence over as a Commission have been made very clear. 00:39:30
So. 00:39:37
And that's fine. You guys don't always necessarily have to agree. I mean, really, you could make a motion and see where things go 00:39:39
either way. 00:39:43
This is just LAMP. 00:39:48
It's the land donation and investing the rights with the development agreement resolution. 00:39:50
So when we vested rights for for downtown? 00:39:56
Did I mean, what did they vest this early in the process? 00:40:01
I mean. 00:40:05
As they were, how does 2020, It was a similar I moved in in 2017 and I knew downtown was coming. So there was enough there for me 00:40:07
to know what's coming. And I mean I understand what's coming here. I can visualize it. It's definitely not the same amount of 00:40:13
presentation. 00:40:19
As maybe what was used to best before. 00:40:25
It's also a different process. 00:40:29
Yeah, that's fine. 00:40:31
So you're right on the presentation that you probably saw on our latest iteration of. 00:40:35
The downtown. 00:40:41
But when those development rights were originally vested? 00:40:43
It was exactly like this on a bubble plan. 00:40:46
These are the areas that are going to have these uses. 00:40:50
There were no roads. There were no. 00:40:53
Yeah, 2014. 00:40:56
So that so there was no, there was no development detail at that time. 00:40:57
It just created the framework and the certainty to move forward. 00:41:01
Additional. 00:41:07
Details in the planning process. 00:41:08
Would you be comfortable? 00:41:10
Having this conversation for just one more month and then the vote on the resolution happen. 00:41:13
My opinion is it's going to be voted and there would be support for. 00:41:19
I am concerned. 00:41:23
There's a lot of. 00:41:25
Really strong passion. 00:41:26
Around this right now and I don't think people need. 00:41:28
Hate this project? Yeah, there's hard feelings and there's no reason to have that feeling because I think it's going to be really 00:41:33
good, like everybody in here, I'm telling you. 00:41:37
This is this is unique. 00:41:41
This is really high. 00:41:43
Is I mean and and yeah we're here for the Planning Commission but we're also here to to represent the general plan and the 00:41:45
community short I mean what can we do there to. 00:41:50
Work through this process while still do it. As you know, we're all part of this community and building it or living it, yeah, I 00:41:55
understand what you're saying. You know, again, at the risk of bad optics, we would prefer to have certainty sooner rather than 00:42:00
later, as soon as possible. 00:42:06
So that we can continue these discussions and report back that this is done. 00:42:11
You know, prior to the end of the year, I think that's important. 00:42:16
There will. 00:42:21
Lots and lots and lots of levels of additional detail that will come before. 00:42:23
The Planning Commission and the City Council before anything gets built. 00:42:28
Thank you. 00:42:34
I move to recommend approval of Resolution 2023-51 E Geneva Land Donation and Development Agreement to the City Council. That was 00:42:37
today. Do I have a? 00:42:43
They're ready. Yeah. I second. 00:43:01
All right. This is roll call, Chris. Nay, Brad. 00:43:04
Hi. 00:43:08
Bryce I Tay Graydon. 00:43:10
Right motion passes. 00:43:13
All right, moving on to item 4 point. 00:43:17
5.4. 00:43:21
OK. 00:43:25
This is a public hearing for the forged development agreement. 00:43:27
Do I have a motion to move this into a public hearing? 00:43:32
Motion to move to public hearing. Do I have a second? 00:43:35
High. 00:43:39
Oh, we're going to have to wait for today on this real quick. 00:43:40
And Jerry might need just about two or three minutes to. 00:43:46
You can just make the motion and output that. 00:43:51
OK. All in favor. Aye. All right. 00:43:54
We've had some controversial agreements, agreements. 00:44:16
Sorry, I came straight from work, so I got dinner. Thank you, Chair and members of the Planning Commission. It's been a long 00:44:27
night. We do appreciate your your service to the community. 00:44:31
So this is the Forge development agreement. This is the project that was reviewed. 00:44:38
By the Planning Commission. 00:44:44
Early this year and I believe it was like officially reviewed, it was December, November of 2022 and then I think there was a 00:44:48
recommendation of approval. 00:44:53
In January of 23 and went to City Council in 2023. At that time the council and many of the comments from the Planning Commission. 00:44:59
Essentially the direction to the applicant was to go back to lessen the amount of residential units and if you remember there was 00:45:12
the proposal was I believe 15 to 1700. 00:45:17
Units with a lot of commercial office was was was a pretty heavy use. 00:45:24
And also some pretty substantial heights. 00:45:31
One of the so part of the direction was to reduce those residential units. 00:45:34
And to also to look at the overall massing and the height of the buildings. There's a concern that you know just putting so much 00:45:41
massing and and height adjacent to the vineyard connector would would provide just like kind of just a big wall and there's a kind 00:45:47
of a lot of interest in scene undulation and and different heights. 00:45:54
And and we also talked about the open space plan. 00:46:02
The overall commercial uses trying to get some more entertainment. 00:46:07
So we've been working with Dakota Pacific. 00:46:11
Over this past year. 00:46:15
I've kind of gone back and forth, back and forth, and I feel like the plan that we have now is a really great compromise and kind 00:46:17
of addresses the the concerns and the issues. 00:46:22
That the the Planning Commission, the City Council had brought up. 00:46:27
Back in January and then February. So without any further ado, we can turn the time over to Steve. 00:46:31
He's the project manager with Dakota Pacific. 00:46:38
Hello once again, Nice to be with you on this Wednesday evening in these chambers. 00:46:51
I was here last week. 00:47:00
In a work session. 00:47:02
Presenting the. 00:47:05
There were some comments in there that I think we can specifically bring up an address, but for the public's benefit and for 00:47:08
those. 00:47:11
That maybe weren't here. Give me some guidance on. 00:47:15
You know, the level of detail. My initial thought was to go ahead and present the project to everybody so that there's a fair 00:47:18
hearing for everybody. Is that? Yeah, yeah, great, great. 00:47:23
Do I need to hold this? 00:47:29
So from an agenda perspective, these are the topics that we'll talk about. I'll give a little background, talk about some of the 00:47:41
prior feedback, the master plan, vision, phase one parking and traffic, affordable housing, the Phase 1 schedule. 00:47:47
By way of background. 00:47:55
The General Plan is the guiding document for development in Vineyard City in the 2019 when it was created, the Ford mixed-use 00:47:57
District. 00:48:01
Which? 00:48:06
In this area right here. 00:48:08
At the corner of Vineyard Connector and Geneva Rd. 00:48:10
Was being also negotiated. This is a special use zoning district. 00:48:14
And it was designed and planned to be part of what is designated here in the. 00:48:18
General. 00:48:24
As residential mixed-use. 00:48:25
So the entirety of kind of this color was to be residential mixed-use. I think while this was being negotiated, we saw chunks kind 00:48:27
of going to straight residential, chunks going to straight commercial and yet we were holding on and I think the expectation was 00:48:34
that we would hold on to a true mixed-use development where we'd have residential and commercial brought together into a a. 00:48:40
An urban commercial neighborhood, I think, is what some of the text in the general plan and the zoning calls out. 00:48:47
And. 00:48:55
It was meant and designed to be, you know, this is an entrance and a gateway to a vineyard. It was meant to be special. It was 00:48:56
meant to. 00:48:59
Make a statement as you're driving down. 00:49:03
Vineyard Connector that you see something different than, you know, surface parking lots. 00:49:05
And traditional kind of develop. 00:49:10
Within that zoning, what was being anticipated on our side and what was being presented to the city was 1.2 million square feet of 00:49:16
office and commercial and 600 residential units. 00:49:21
That zoning, I think, allows for buildings up to 140 feet tall. 00:49:26
It was meant to be fairly dense. 00:49:30
What we're bringing to you tonight is a development agreement that was. 00:49:33
Clarifies and changes some of those zoning requirements. 00:49:38
And without an approval that is what remains in place. So just just for for for clarity that is the so this is not up zoning as 00:49:41
some might say. 00:49:45
A lot of what we're agreeing to is actually a lower density than the current entitlement allows. 00:49:53
The feedback that we got from the first quarter 2023 submission. 00:50:01
Was density. 00:50:05
Specifically around the residential density as mentioned by Morgan. 00:50:07
We brought it from 1500. We reduced it 25% down to about 1100 units, which we'll talk more about. There was a lot of good feedback 00:50:11
about the open active space that we were bringing. 00:50:16
There was interest in the kind of commercial that we were bringing. Could it be more of an amenity to the community? 00:50:21
Parking is something that we'll. 00:50:28
And I will. 00:50:30
Do my best to. 00:50:33
How we've gone upstream to try to solve some of the challenges that might. 00:50:34
Building height and then we've offered up affordable and mixed-use housing in this revised plan and that was appreciated in the 00:50:38
last plan as well that the affordable. 00:50:42
The current development agreement stands on a framework of land use. So what you're looking at here is about 38 acres that we own. 00:50:49
That makes up the majority of the 44 acres in the zoning district. 00:50:58
On Geneva Rd. 00:51:03
That corner of Geneva Road and Vineyard Connector here. This was meant to be again. 00:51:05
The gateway. Something special, something unique to put something, you know, some kind of branding iconic. 00:51:09
Monument on that corner. 00:51:17
Bring some kind of an office building that has high class and says welcome to vineyard. 00:51:19
And so that this use would be 100% commercial and be focused on office with some supporting retail? 00:51:24
Over on this side the. 00:51:30
Allow. 00:51:32
Are focused primarily on commercial as well. 00:51:34
We have an entertainment block which we'll talk quite a bit about. This is part of our Phase one. 00:51:37
The idea is that this is the place to come. Eat, have fun, enjoy. 00:51:42
And have some significance to the area for. 00:51:46
Umm. 00:51:51
To bring commercial interest and activity and vibrancy to the area. 00:51:52
As you come down Mill Rd. there will be other commercial that will be allowed. Things like hotels will be allowed. Additional 00:51:55
retail could be allowed. 00:51:58
Office could be allowed, right? More traditional. 00:52:02
Type commercial uses and then here in the center is where we would create this urban neighborhood that. 00:52:05
Be aware the residential would reside supported by ground floor commercial. 00:52:11
Central. 00:52:17
To this is some of the open space. We've heard about that in the past. 00:52:18
Have a central part that sits right in the middle. 00:52:22
That will be an activity zone. 00:52:24
And in effort to draw people from the yard development to the South, there's an enhanced pedestrian pathway. 00:52:26
That would come to the central Plaza, draw the eye, drop people in. 00:52:33
Help people transition from one development to the other. 00:52:38
This pathway. 00:52:41
Have additional pedestrian width. It would have benches, potentially Overstreet lighting or other features. Overstreet. 00:52:43
The corners will have some kind of monument and. 00:52:49
Height. 00:52:52
Welcome to a really high class urban neighborhood. 00:52:53
Also key to the whole open space plan. 00:52:59
Is. 00:53:01
To create some kind. 00:53:03
Walking trail loop exper. 00:53:05
As people walk along, the future Geneva Trail will be able to stop along a park that will. 00:53:07
For land that we will donate, you know, have kids play. 00:53:11
Continue to come up around the corner. There will be a dog park and a fenced area up here that people can stop and enjoy. 00:53:17
And then walk along, what you'll see is the entertainment district, which will be kind of vibrant area and enjoy the activity 00:53:23
that's going on there. 00:53:26
So define land use areas, 5 plus acres of publicly accessible open space. There will be more open space, you know then what's 00:53:29
here, but we're designated five as publicly accessible. 00:53:34
And then the maximum 1100 residential units that will be made-up of four cell units as well As for rent. 00:53:41
And. 00:53:46
And then 60%? 00:53:48
Of those 1100. 00:53:50
There would be a minimum of 20. I think the development agreement is 21 or 20. 00:53:52
60% AMI affordable units that will be first priority to 1st responders and teachers. 00:53:56
This is a rendering of what it might look like if you're standing across the street from Mill Rd. looking E toward the mountains. 00:54:05
This is what you're looking at. Here is the entertainment block. 00:54:12
That was designated as an entertainment use, you can see. 00:54:15
Activity vibrancy, you can see outdoor. 00:54:18
Entrance ways and kind of a sense of presence from Mill Rd. The same would occur from Vineyard Connector. 00:54:22
Enhanced landscaping and this pedestrian experience as you walk along. 00:54:31
In the center, this is where we're going to represent an illustrated form, the activity and this entertainment anchor that we'll 00:54:36
be talking about, where people come play, relax, enjoy. 00:54:41
As you look past that, this is the mixed-use area. What you're looking at here is four and five story multifamily residential 00:54:49
projects that has a. 00:54:53
Parking garage interior to that multi family structure that's going to help park the commercial, that's going to help park some of 00:54:58
the public uses. 00:55:02
And just help create a real sense of character as opposed to surface parking. 00:55:07
Which would be the default, otherwise depart all of that. 00:55:13
Really important to the overall character of the develop. 00:55:17
As you look along Cauldron St. 00:55:20
Lower density. 00:55:24
Residential units, maybe three story townhomes. They could be live work type units. 00:55:26
But we're thinking of scale. We're thinking of. 00:55:32
As you go from Cauldron. 00:55:35
Up this way, one of the comments and feedback was how does it feel on Vineyard Connector as you're driving along it. We've brought 00:55:36
the scale down along this whole entire block. 00:55:40
Versus the prior plan and that was one of the things that we went back and forth with the with the current staff and City Council. 00:55:44
I'm going to go now to site plan as you look from above. Now this is what it may look like. 00:55:54
What you saw earlier was this entertainment block. 00:56:01
Flanked with different retail and commercial food and beverage users, I almost think of it like an outdoor food hall. 00:56:04
Right. You've got all these kind of high activity areas. 00:56:10
In the center. 00:56:14
Gathering areas long additional food and beverage. 00:56:16
Where people can come and enjoy. 00:56:20
Gathering with friends or family. 00:56:25
The activities could. 00:56:29
Music in the. 00:56:34
All of these retailers will be part of an association, and together they'll sponsor events and you'll have music. You'll have 00:56:36
movie nights. You'll have, you know, you see pickleball courts here depicted as a as a potential for the activity. 00:56:42
Other kind of yard games come out. 00:56:49
And enjoy an evening together. 00:56:52
We worked again really hard on the Vineyard connector. Looking at this deep articulation of these multi family buildings. These 00:56:56
will be varying heights you'll have. 00:57:00
This being a little bit taller around the garage, drop the story as it goes around here, but. 00:57:04
The residential will. 00:57:09
Amenities of swimming pool, courtyards, areas to relax. 00:57:13
Areas to go find some isolation in the outdoors. 00:57:17
The Central Plaza will be highly used by the residential, the residents of the area and we're planning for some commercial again 00:57:22
within this area of flanking either side of the Central Park. 00:57:27
To be able to just activate it, keep it. 00:57:32
For people. 00:57:37
To also have this iconic viewpoint as you look down Anvil St. into the central Plaza. 00:57:38
We are not depicting a bus stop, but we will. 00:57:46
Work with UTA. The best place where that bus stop is that that needs to be jointly designed with UTA. It's in the development 00:57:51
agreement that we will. 00:57:54
To work with them in place one or more bus stops. 00:57:58
This now is a rendering. If I'm looking into that entertainment courtyard, you can see again gathering points like fire pits. 00:58:03
You can see shaded areas, you can see open lawn, you can see sports and activities, and you can see food and beverage supporting 00:58:10
at all. 00:58:13
To be able to eat and. 00:58:17
We. 00:58:21
Included. 00:58:23
EV charging. 00:58:25
Bicycle. 00:58:26
Right. Those elements of good development in today's. 00:58:27
Will be part of what we bring to this development. 00:58:30
And our last rendering that really shows the vision is this. This is standing across Cauldron St. looking N into the central 00:58:37
Plaza. You can see again commercial. 00:58:42
Activity. You can see varying heights of buildings, you can see people being able to get out, enjoy, have some open space to be 00:58:47
able to recreate. 00:58:51
And grab a drink. Hang with friends, hang with family. 00:58:55
So that concludes the design Vision piece and then we'll get a little bit more into the details of the development agreement and 00:59:00
some of the terms and addressing some of the potential comments that might come up. 00:59:05
Before I go there, can I pause for any questions here? 00:59:10
The phasing of this is important. 00:59:19
What are we going to deliver? 00:59:22
And how are we going to bring commercial and residential to deliver together the commitment and the development? 00:59:26
Is to. 00:59:31
Before this phase 1A occupied, which would be the first building that would be constructed? 00:59:33
Which is represented as the entertainment anchor, would need to be completed. 00:59:39
Before phase 1A occupies. 00:59:43
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It needs to be constructed. Construction needs to start on that before. 00:59:46
We occupy phase one. 00:59:51
So there's a commitment to bring that along with the residential before we start this side of the residential. 00:59:55
This entertainment anchor needs to be completed. 01:00:03
So phase one will develop with both commercial and residential concurrently and that's a commitment. 01:00:07
There's been a lot of discussion, I think last time, Bryce, about what is this entertainment anchor and how do we define it? 01:00:13
The current version of the development agreement talks about regionally significant. We're proposing to add regionally slash city 01:00:19
significant. 01:00:23
And then we'll have a separate ex. 01:00:28
In. 01:00:30
That defines some examples of what this entertainment anchor. 01:00:32
It could be this. 01:00:36
As. 01:00:37
You know food and beverage centered focused area with a central activity yard where programmed events can happen. 01:00:39
In the development agreement, that's one description, right? We're trying to create some kind of description to say, yeah, we're 01:00:46
both nodding yes that this is what we expected. 01:00:50
The other could be a single commercial user. 01:00:53
That's got, you know, a restaurant. Usually there are larger restaurants sit. 01:00:56
Dining, you know, 8000 square feet or more and then they have some kind of activity center adjacent to it. So they're bringing 01:01:00
both activity and restaurant together into some kind of significant. 01:01:05
Regionally or city significant? 01:01:13
Development. 01:01:16
Be an asset to the community where people want to come and enjoy. 01:01:18
So I think we've clarified that in the development agreement. 01:01:24
A little bit so as I was reading through the development agreement. 01:01:27
And it says regionally significant in the development agreement I tried. 01:01:31
Define that. I looked it up, I looked on Google, I tried to see if anything uses the words regionally significant and I wasn't 01:01:37
able to find anything. So I worry that if we can't define what that is then. 01:01:43
I mean who's that's who's to say what's regionally significant. Yeah. And I don't know if you've seen the revised our feedback, we 01:01:52
just send it back today. 01:01:55
But that's why we put these specific examples in here to say these would be considered that. 01:01:59
And they kind of create a baseline, right. So not only does our illustrative depiction create a baseline, now, we've also got some 01:02:04
more description around it. 01:02:07
I think the I haven't seen that. I think the intent is that it's not just being used by the residents next door. 01:02:11
It's drawing some people in from the surrounding area. 01:02:17
We called that regionally. 01:02:20
I agree it's a little too soft. That's why we've tried to put some some more suspenders on it. 01:02:22
OK. 01:02:27
Honestly. 01:02:29
One of my biggest concerns is the definition of what regionally significant is and what an anchor is. 01:02:30
What you said in one of the previous meetings was that it's well known and sought after as a well known and sought after 01:02:37
establishment. 01:02:40
I feel like that. 01:02:44
I feel like it's too broad. 01:02:46
The way I've understood this, or the way that I've accepted it as. 01:02:51
Something that can go forward. 01:02:55
We have something there that's a big. 01:02:57
A big draw for people to want to come here, for people to want to live here. 01:02:59
If it's just. 01:03:04
A park that's enhanced or if it's just a restaurant that's nice, like that's that's not enough for me to find it beyond that, it's 01:03:07
activity center. 01:03:11
OK. Yeah. 01:03:15
What are some definitions, I guess, of an activity center like I mean Trafalgar is an activity center, is that? 01:03:17
All right. Is that is that around? 01:03:22
That's kind of my point too, like something, something that they seem to don't last. Trafalgar at one point was regionally. 01:03:26
Like it was well known. And I don't know how to get out of the subjectivity entirely. It's a cart and horse thing, just like we've 01:03:33
talked about before we. 01:03:38
A vested right to be actually deliver this product before we can actually bring those. 01:03:43
Contracts, and they'll publicly announce them. 01:03:49
All I can say. 01:03:53
Describe more examples as examples. But there's always going to be a subjective piece because I may bring something that is a 01:03:55
little bit smaller in footprint, but everybody's like that, is that is it? 01:03:59
But if we can provide some parameters around at least a baseline that we all agree is. 01:04:04
And minimize that discretion, I think that's right. So if I talk about you know the size of a restaurant is, is being significant. 01:04:10
And it's not just a restaurant, it's also an activity center. And I'm also showing this illustration showing, you know, this is 01:04:18
1.1 acres, this blue area. 01:04:21
If we talk about the activity. 01:04:27
You know, having to be more than 1/2 acre or 3/4 of an acre does that kind. 01:04:29
Or at least that's the standard. 01:04:33
We're measuring against today and exceptions could be approved by Planning Commission. 01:04:35
Have we tried to get Steve to commit to that three star Michelin restaurant? But. 01:04:42
So I mean. 01:04:49
I think like having them. 01:04:51
Using the actual exhibit, I mean that's going to be the best that you're going to be able to do. That's something very visible. 01:04:54
You can as you do the site plan in the future, you'll be able to go back to the exhibit and you can say do you have, you know, the 01:04:59
same level of activities. 01:05:04
You know, I think that could help require some square footage for restaurants. You know that that could be another another route. 01:05:13
But I think they the exhibit is probably from a Planning Commission standpoint what you're going to be able to review under the 01:05:19
site plan and give you a comparable that that you can go back and forth on. 01:05:26
You know, that's kind of been working with Jamie and Steve that seemed like probably one of your best ways to do that. So I guess 01:05:34
my concern then is based off of just the drawings. Currently it's just a slightly enhanced park. 01:05:40
With these drawings, there's some pickleball courts and some trees and some sitting areas. 01:05:48
Yeah, it's, but it's surrounded by restaurants. 01:05:53
And. 01:05:57
Better than focused in on a Nova space that's programmed for entertainment. OK, so that's like to us that actually felt like like 01:06:01
a pretty big, big win as opposed to just having restaurants with with a parking lot. 01:06:07
You know, like this really upgraded the overall experience of trying to provide a real amenity. 01:06:14
OK, so I don't know. I mean just for me personally if if this was the view. 01:06:21
Yeah or yeah, go to any of them. 01:06:30
If this was what was planned with restaurants on the outside and. 01:06:33
Thing in the whatever it is in the middle. Sorry, I don't. I mean, it's beautiful. I'm just saying. 01:06:37
It. 01:06:44
100% for me it needs to be covered. 01:06:44
If if this is gonna. 01:06:48
Regionally attractive, regionally significant. 01:06:51
It should be significant throughout the whole year and people aren't going to play pickleball right now. They're not gonna play 01:06:54
pickleball in the middle of the winter. They're not gonna want to be in this park area. I mean, you go and look at the River 01:06:59
Bottoms, which is. 01:07:03
An area that has a bunch of fire pits and stuff and unless people are shopping. 01:07:07
It. 01:07:12
You don't see people out in these Plaza areas. 01:07:13
So for me it at the very least needs to be completely covered. 01:07:15
I'm not saying that it needs to be enclosed. 01:07:26
Yeah. 01:07:29
I hear what you're saying from a developers perspective. I also. 01:07:30
Uncovered is a great amenity in the right time of the season, so. 01:07:34
That's a two edged sword to some extent I'm going to open up. Do you guys have any? I mean I mean yes and no. Like middle of the 01:07:38
summer I don't want to play pickleball in 100° weather and I know but in the evening as the sun setting it's a great thing to. 01:07:45
Parts are great. If you covered all the parts, they wouldn't be very fun. 01:07:53
Then it's just. Then it becomes a warehouse, yeah. 01:07:58
And so how do we do that? I don't know. I can tell you some of the plans that we're considering have indoor elements. 01:08:01
And I'm not opposed to being able to consider that as we bring the plan. I don't know how to commit to that today other than it's 01:08:07
going to bring activity. It's going to be interesting. We have the same concern. 01:08:12
We need to bring activity in the winter to the area as well, but can you do a pop up village? Can you bring Santa Claus in the 01:08:18
center and you know and. 01:08:22
Have a little winter festival. 01:08:26
Right. So I think there's still ways to activate it. 01:08:28
I I just I don't want to design it here today. I don't know how to do that but I'm just saying if it if it's if the attraction is 01:08:31
going to be. 01:08:35
Open like this. Essentially an enhanced park. 01:08:40
For it to be an attraction for me to want to actually go there and visit these restaurants. 01:08:44
I want it to be covered. I want it to be shaded. I want there to be fire pits in the winter. I don't want to be snowed on. I don't 01:08:50
want to be rained on. I want to go there because. 01:08:54
We have lots of parks and vineyards. 01:09:00
We have lots of places you can go to Grove Park, you can go to any of these huge parks and spend time in sun. 01:09:02
Which is already a complaint for a lot of the citizens. People need for it to be regionally significant in my eyes it should be 01:09:09
covered and I think that if it was covered, I think. 01:09:14
I don't think there's another park in the area that is covered to that degree and I think that would be regionally significant. I 01:09:21
don't know how to design that I could say here. 01:09:25
But. 01:09:30
Is it more about can we make it active in the winter? 01:09:31
And the summer, I mean. 01:09:35
It needs to be shaded in the summer and it needs to be protected in the way. It needs to be programmable for events and activities 01:09:38
and whether or not we get. 01:09:41
You know, Commissioner Brady out every time. I don't know, but maybe Morgan. 01:09:45
Is a little more OK with some cold? 01:09:48
OK, thanks. I'm just trying to convert to other. I'm trying to compare it to other things that are in Utah County that. 01:09:51
Visited very highly because, but if you're asking about can we make it, you know, a full year amenity, I think that can be 01:09:59
considered and talked about. Something that you can do too is in the summertime, you know a lot of cities they do have canopy 01:10:04
requirements. 01:10:09
And so you know and how how they they plant the trees. 01:10:16
I'm ensuring. 01:10:20
More mature trees day one as opposed to like a one inch. 01:10:21
But they, you know during the side plan if you had some sort of mechanical requirement. 01:10:26
Let's say like that park has to. 01:10:31
At. 01:10:33
You know that actually would be pretty pretty decent. You still want some open space as well. 01:10:35
But if you had a decent percentage of can. 01:10:40
And that's something that they could diagram during. 01:10:43
Process that, that's something you looked at now that would be probably at maturity. 01:10:49
But you could ask for, you know, like at least like a 2 inch caliper. 01:10:53
3. 01:10:58
Just so you can trees that. 01:10:59
Substance. 01:11:05
I don't know when I hear regionally significant, I think. 01:11:09
People want to come that there should be. 01:11:13
Personally, I'm not gonna drive. 01:11:17
A place that just has an enhanced park. 01:11:21
I don't think it's regionally significant. If I'm going to go to a park, there are places like the mall where I can go and get 01:11:24
food and there is a Plaza area that's similar in size to this Plaza area. 01:11:29
That's outside with fountains and things like that. I don't. 01:11:35
Think. 01:11:39
Enough of a draw for me personally, I mean others on the Commission might feel differently. 01:11:41
The college students, the families, right. If we program this right it will become event focused and it it'll like where else do 01:11:46
you go that's got this many choices of food and beverage that also has all these amenities. 01:11:52
We think this will drop people, especially with the right mix of food and beverage tenants. 01:12:01
So. 01:12:06
A stage for like live. 01:12:10
I mean, it just comes back to my same thing of like the River Bottoms. They've got a stage, they've got an outdoor Plaza, they've 01:12:13
got restaurants. 01:12:18
And it. 01:12:23
Not dead it's yeah, it's not. 01:12:25
It's not used as much as it should be. It's not. 01:12:28
Yeah, they even have a vineyard beach area. 01:12:32
Which? 01:12:37
Those couple of things are what keep it alive. 01:12:40
But for it. 01:12:44
I. 01:12:47
I think it needs to have something that's regionally significant, but there needs to be a definition of it and if it's going to be 01:12:48
park open space stuff. 01:12:52
For it to be regionally, regionally significant for me, it needs to be covered. 01:12:57
Others might have a different definition of that. 01:13:02
It's easy to say. 01:13:04
Yes, we believe that people are going to come in, but it's easy to say that when you're getting. 01:13:06
1100 resident, 1100 units, probably 2 or 3000 residents that are living right there. I mean, they're going to come, of course, 01:13:12
because they live right there. I'm talking about this is something that benefits. 01:13:18
All of the community, they want to come here because it's something that they can't. 01:13:24
In their backyard or it's something that they can't find at another park that's in the city. 01:13:28
Just. 01:13:34
There's food close. 01:13:36
I feel. 01:13:38
It has to be more than that. 01:13:40
He come back to cover, So that seems like that's an important thing obviously too is there? 01:13:42
Because you do want kind of the outdoor feel as well, yeah, But I mean. 01:13:49
So like the the question is like would you be open to? 01:13:53
Place. 01:14:00
Or I guess kind of. 01:14:05
Certain. 01:14:19
Yeah. 01:14:52
I mean, I've tried to bring this up in every meeting. 01:14:59
And we haven't had a solid definition yet, so I would love to see that. I would absolutely love to see that. I just. 01:15:01
So I mean this is my this. 01:15:09
My biggest hang up with the whole thing. 01:15:12
They're supposed to be a regionally significant something here, but we've yet to define. 01:15:16
What that is and how we can define it in the development agreement. 01:15:24
Outdoor mall complex, but we go there year round and they've and they do ice skating rinks there in the winter. They do the fire 01:15:58
pits, but it's it. They've done it a little differently than river bottoms. 01:16:03
And it works. It's always packed with lots of people. So like, I imagine this. 01:16:08
You could make it work, but it'd be you'd have to. 01:16:12
It would have to be all season. You design it with all aspects of it, and it doesn't necessarily have to be covered, but it has to 01:16:15
be. 01:16:19
Regionally in my view it's regionally significant and that it is drawing people in to to attend something. It may not be even an 01:16:22
anchor, but it's you're able to to design events or things that. 01:16:27
You know, create all season patterns of traffic there to attract people to come in. 01:16:33
Can you lean closer to the microphone for me? Thank you. 01:16:41
Or to the actual micro? 01:16:44
Don't worry, just just leave the light on. Don't worry about the speakers. 01:16:48
I want. 01:17:08
You have the ability right now to make those qualifiers. 01:17:21
Yeah, so in our past meetings we've talked about this and I am not a developer, so I don't know what the language is. I am not. 01:17:30
I don't know what. 01:17:41
Surrounding area is I don't have experience in. 01:17:42
Entertainment. 01:17:46
Things like that, and that's why I've brought this up every meeting in hopes. 01:17:48
You could come back and be like. 01:17:53
We are. We are professionals. 01:17:55
Here's what we can do, and it's just been language of, oh, in this, in this one, the languages that will have something regionally 01:17:57
significant. And I can't find a single definition for that. And that's where my problem comes is We've brought this up in every 01:18:01
meeting. 01:18:06
Hoping that they could come back with something because I'm like I said, we're not professionals in this regard. 01:18:11
But I just for me, I haven't seen. 01:18:17
A certain distance from other. 01:18:35
Mm-hmm. 01:18:50
So I guess I do apologize. Yeah, we're kind of in a deliberation. 01:19:01
We're in a public hearing. 01:19:12
We're in a public hearing. 01:19:14
We have to close. 01:19:16
Right, Yeah, sorry I did you have more that you wanted? 01:19:19
Yeah. 01:19:27
You can keep going on your presentation if. 01:19:31
If you live in an American fork or forum, you're going to want to come here, and it sounds like that's. 01:19:35
That's part of the story. 01:19:40
Parking so let. 01:19:45
Run through some of these, then we can go. 01:19:46
Public comment. 01:19:48
Looked at. 01:19:51
I keep asking why has it been so traumatic for people? 01:19:53
Parking in Vineyard. 01:19:58
And other areas. Parking matters, but it doesn't have the same passion and it hasn't had the same. 01:20:00
Same kind of horrific stories associated with it. I really think that parking is an occupancy. 01:20:06
Issue. What has happened? 01:20:12
Residents have been built. 01:20:16
Assuming kind of family occupancy with one to two cars and then students are bundled singles that come in. 01:20:19
And they have 5 to 6 cars. And now you can see how that exponentially creates problems really quickly. 01:20:25
Our agreement with you is to go up. 01:20:31
Lock in. 01:20:34
Not. 01:20:36
Occupancy that doesn't align with the parking that we have available. 01:20:37
And then monitor and audit and require certain things around that occupancy so that there's consistent. 01:20:42
Delivery around that, we really think that's going to go upstream and fix the majority of anybody's parking. 01:20:49
Concerns and issues. 01:20:56
Monitoring and enforcement should be a secondary. 01:20:58
Way to deal with this. It shouldn't be the primary. 01:21:00
Right. The primary way should be balancing supply and demand that we're gonna do that through occupancy. 01:21:03
We. 01:21:09
Going. 01:21:11
In this initial phase, over park the project. 01:21:13
And provide additional stalls in what code required and maybe even above. Well it is above what even our market requirements seem 01:21:17
to indicate that we would we would need. 01:21:22
And so we will over park phase one. So again that buys down risk. 01:21:27
That excess could be used in phase. 01:21:33
Then. 01:21:35
And let me just highlight one other thing that's going to be. 01:21:37
Maybe some of the? 01:21:40
Opportunities to. 01:21:41
We are not going to. So if you're going to park in a residential parking stall in our project, you're going to have to have a 01:21:45
permit, no permit. 01:21:49
Obviously there's enforcement associated. 01:21:52
We will not issue more permits than we have. 01:21:55
We will not issue more per. 01:21:58
Than leases that we sign, right. So when you lease. 01:22:00
A unit. You also get a parking sticker, and you don't get a parking sticker unless we have capacity to give you a parking sticker. 01:22:04
So it's not that we can't accommodate bundled singles, it's not that we can't accommodate students, it's not that we can't 01:22:11
accommodate multi generational housing, it just means. 01:22:14
That the excess parking that we do have, we're going to. 01:22:18
And tie it to our leases and our occupancy. 01:22:22
So then we'll also have some visitor and other spaces we. 01:22:25
Our parking management plan that we're going to record. 01:22:29
And we'll talk about how this is going to get enforced in just a second. 01:22:32
It's going to also talk about how do you make sure that the visitor stalls roll over. We're going to have time limits on that so 01:22:35
that can be monitored. There will also be some permitted potentially overnight. 01:22:40
Visitor. 01:22:44
So we think we have a solid plan. We're going to record it. We're going to work with the Planning Commission on the parking 01:22:47
management plan as the sites get developed. Right now, it's a little hard to identify all the moving pieces because we don't have 01:22:51
the plan. It's like trying to design your cabinets with before having the boundaries of your kitchen. 01:22:56
Right. We need, we need the plan. So what we're doing is just building a high level requirement structure that then will come back 01:23:02
work through with the Planning Commission. 01:23:06
And develop that parking management plan. 01:23:11
How is the parking going to be enforced? I think what we heard last time. 01:23:15
One ENT. 01:23:19
It's got to be responsible. 01:23:20
And so just talking, I want to talk quickly about our owners association because it's different than. 01:23:21
Where this is true mixed-use. This is going to be different from an owner's association than maybe some of the other projects. 01:23:26
At the top level we have a properties owners association. 01:23:31
This is going to include commercial, This is going to include residential. Underneath those will be sub associations. They're 01:23:34
going to have retail and commercial and we're going to have a residential association. 01:23:39
The residential association could have HOA's underneath. 01:23:44
What we're proposing is that this Parker's owners, this property owners association. 01:23:48
Is responsible. This is where the city goes. 01:23:52
It has accountability to the city on parking. This is where enforcement has to occur. 01:23:56
They'll either implement it or ensure that the sub association is implementing the parking management plan OK. 01:24:01
They may have some areas like common streets that they also have some direct responsibility for. 01:24:07
Then the sub associations are going to then flow down requirements. 01:24:14
In their board. 01:24:17
For their associations. 01:24:19
To monitor parking and float things down to the owners, or they're going to implement it themselves. 01:24:21
So for instance, we may. 01:24:26
Well, let me just add. There are lots of elements to the parking plan. There's permitting, there's lease terms, there's occupancy 01:24:29
audits, there's visitor parking, there's monitoring and forcing signage and privacy. All of these are elements of the parking 01:24:33
plan. 01:24:36
And we're saying that those are going to be distributed in responsibility through this stack. 01:24:40
But ultimately the property owners association is responsible to make sure it does flow down through the stack. 01:24:44
And they have the right to cure it. 01:24:50
The subordinates are not following the party management. 01:24:53
So permitting has to happen at the apartment level. That's where the lease happens, right? We can't, we can't make the properties 01:24:59
and owners association issue all the permits. That won't make sense. 01:25:02
But what we can do? 01:25:07
Enforcement, because that will make sense and the association will vote on that and say let's bundle enforcement across across the 01:25:09
whole property and they'll make those decisions. 01:25:13
And if it's not being done, the properties owners association again can can self perform. 01:25:17
So that's how we're trying to deal with enforcement. 01:25:22
Of. 01:25:25
Can I make a comment on that? Yeah, so one. I've never seen such a detailed parking enforcement presentation. So I care about it. 01:25:26
We are in the details here, but I do want to highlight. 01:25:31
This is the very first project. 01:25:38
I am aware of in the entire nation because you had mentioned there's likely to be license plate readers for enforcement. 01:25:41
And this is a big concern if this discussion of smart cities tracking citizens who accesses this data. So one of the commitments 01:25:47
in the agreement is to incorporate like if you visit there, if you're in the public, you're a private person. 01:25:53
Privacy is considered to protect that data. Like it's not a surveillance aspect, it's it's you can come, you can visit and and you 01:25:59
can leave and don't worry about your data being shared with everyone. So it's unique in that it's kind of testing that 01:26:05
implementation. But that's probably the first of many you'll see where projects say we want to protect privacy, let people 01:26:11
experience their cities and come and we're not trying to surveil you. 01:26:17
Thank. 01:26:24
That's all I got on. 01:26:27
Next we'll go to Traffic. 01:26:30
I want to go back to what I mentioned about the general plan and the current entitlement. 01:26:32
The current approved plan. 01:26:36
Has a certain density tied to it right again. 01:26:38
Up to 140 foot buildings, a lot of office. Office is a very heavy traffic user. 01:26:41
The current approved plan if you built the, you know, a million million. 01:26:47
Square feet of commer. 01:26:53
You have 20,000 daily trips, 2000 at the PM peak. 01:26:55
Our submission cuts that in approximately half. 01:26:58
So by voting for this, you are voting for a better traffic condition than you would otherwise, Again, because the baseline. 01:27:01
Can be built, it is entitled. 01:27:07
Our development agreement requires us to address the impacts to infrastructure, people are going to say. 01:27:12
What about the impacts? 01:27:18
That will be dealt with as we move through the site plan process and we assess the impacts. 01:27:20
And our agreement is that we will deal with our impact. 01:27:24
And that'll be up to staff and others to to to work through. 01:27:28
And then the last thing that was brought up was what happens if we can't get across the rails for? 01:27:33
And connect to Geneva Rd. for 6:50 and. 01:27:38
A revised traffic impact study was. 01:27:43
Maybe it was yesterday or the day before. 01:27:47
That revised it entirely and just assume those conditions didn't happen for phase one at all. 01:27:49
The impact is minimal. There's no intersections outside of our development that are impacted at all. 01:27:53
And, you know, just getting out onto either vineyard connector. 01:27:58
Mill Rd. has a 5 or 10 second impact. It's not significant. 01:28:03
We can, we can definitely deal with that. 01:28:07
Affordable housing. 01:28:12
We've already mentioned this 21 affordable housing units that are going to be delivered with the project pro rata. 01:28:13
These are 60% AMI Deed Restricted units. 01:28:19
We're going to, we're just offering this up because affordable housing needs to be dealt. 01:28:22
And we know there's a need for teachers and 1st responders to be able to locate in the cities. 01:28:28
Which they work and live, and if we can bring them closer to that that place, we know that that's a benefit. And so if there's a 01:28:33
teacher or a first responder that's on the waiting list, they get first priority. 01:28:37
All of our housing will be attainable workforce housing. 01:28:43
By definition. 01:28:47
Time, I think we can move through that and then we have provided a basic timeline should this move through we get the, the, the 01:28:50
development agreement signed. 01:28:54
We'll move through and hope to be able to get a phase one site plan. 01:28:59
Submitted in 2024, where we'll really be getting into some of the details of the parking management plan, the affordable housing 01:29:02
agreements and some of those. 01:29:06
More more nitty gritty details. 01:29:10
That's all I got. 01:29:14
A couple of questions that I had last time. 01:29:19
Are there any of these that are going to be owner occupied? 01:29:24
Any plans for any owner occupied? Yes, there are plans for owner occupied. We showed those three story units along Cauldron. We 01:29:27
think those are great opportunities for owner occupied. 01:29:31
There's an incentive in the development agreement to provide owner occupied units. 01:29:35
We actually don't get to the 11 zero units without some owner occupied. 01:29:42
Yes, OK. Is, is there any kind of percent or anything that you've tied to that at all the development agreement says? 01:29:46
1075 Max. 01:29:54
But you can go up to 1100 if at least 25 are for cell. 01:29:58
Units. 01:30:02
These are. 01:30:05
You know, kind of blocks of buildings to get the character and scale that we're talking about. 01:30:06
But anywhere that we can fit townhomes that make sense. 01:30:11
Those are certainly available As for sale units. 01:30:15
I think it's harder to do again in these kind of bigger bricks of mask. 01:30:19
And then what is the ratio like do you know how much commercial you plan on having? 01:30:24
I cannot tell you what the square footage will be. I can tell you the land area, right. We haven't detail planned out some of 01:30:31
those commercial areas. I don't know what that office building will be in the end. 01:30:36
Umm. 01:30:41
So we could only. 01:30:42
Approximate if we needed to, but the land area, you can kind of see that whole side along the left is commercial, the side along 01:30:43
the right is. 01:30:46
Commercial. 01:30:51
You know 5050 if you're talking land area approximately, but I haven't done a specific takeoff on that. Would you be comfortable? 01:30:52
Something like was in the previous agreement where there's X amount of commercial for. 01:31:01
The residential space. 01:31:06
I honestly struggle with the square footage requirement. 01:31:08
If you are trying to drive square footage of commercial, it's office. 01:31:12
I don't know that office is the best thing for that area. We've talked about the traffic impacts. 01:31:16
That is how you get commercial square footage. 01:31:21
Instead, I'm going to bring you, you know, an 8000 square foot restaurant. That's a great amenity to the area. 01:31:23
But isn't square footage driven And I'm providing an outdoor patio which now takes away from my that's incentivizing me from doing 01:31:28
things that may actually benefit the community. I'd rather find another metric that's meaningful. 01:31:34
And then in. 01:31:41
The other one you were talking about phasing in those first 600 units you would have the entertainment? 01:31:44
Area. 01:31:50
But. 01:31:51
Only highlight. 01:31:52
The like park section of the entertainment and not any of the. 01:31:54
Food and beverage around it. Is there any requirement of when that gets finished in? 01:31:59
I used that center as a depiction for the entertainment anchor as a definition. Again, it's kind of a baseline. You've got some 01:32:06
commercial within that, that block. 01:32:10
The commercial has to come before we can move to any other residential beyond that as noted in the development agreement. So we 01:32:15
have to deliver kind of that or. 01:32:19
In order to move. 01:32:23
As far as what we've. 01:32:30
Right now, it's at the end of the development of Phase One. The entertainment anchor will have to come. 01:32:33
You know, interior mid project. 01:32:37
OK. 01:32:40
Were there any other questions from the Commission? 01:32:43
Yeah. What do you anticipate? 01:32:47
Ready first retail or residential? 01:32:50
We would like to deliver. 01:32:54
A residential project with the commercial concurrently, right. That's how the development agreement is set up. 01:32:57
We start const. 01:33:03
You know the, the, the, the commercial is going to take, you know 1213 months to construct. The residential is going to take 24. 01:33:06
So from a construction perspective, you put shovels in the ground, you deliver them together by starting the residential first? 01:33:12
But they complete together. 01:33:18
We think. 01:33:20
I fully believe in the commercial. I think it's going to come. 01:33:23
There's a lot of interest around it, there really is. 01:33:27
Did you guys were there any other questions for? 01:33:32
I. 01:33:41
I think it might be good to read the language 1st and then open it up. 01:33:41
So for for this to be meaningful, I think there has to be a condition in the development agreement and what I'd propose is. 01:33:46
Approval of the first site plan being conditioned upon approval by the Planning Commission. 01:33:53
Of a regionally significant entertainment anchor or the design of. 01:33:58
Of the area for the regionally significant entertainment anchor. 01:34:03
And then we propose a definition, and I'll read this. It's a little lengthy, so I apologize for that. 01:34:07
Regionally, significant entertainment anchors shall mean a large scale entertainment or cultural facility that serves as a 01:34:13
prominent attraction during all seasons is unique to the county. 01:34:18
Draws visitors and tourists from a broader geographic area beyond its immediate locality. 01:34:23
And has a substantial economic. 01:34:29
Economic or social impact on the region in which it is situated. 01:34:32
To qualify as originally as regionally significant, the entertainment anchor shall include the following. 01:34:35
We have 4 categories, size and capacity, cultural or recreational importance, regional drought and economic impact. 01:34:41
First one, size and capacity. 01:34:48
A substantial. 01:34:50
A substantial physical footprint and the capacity to accommodate a large number of visitors. 01:34:52
Examples include venues such as theaters, arenas, or cultural institutions with significant seating or exhibition space. 01:34:58
Cultural or Recreational Importance A facility for hosting events or activities of cultural recreational. 01:35:06
Or entertainment significance such as sporting events, concerts, festivals, art exhibitions, or conventions. 01:35:13
Regional draw of the facilities, programming and amenities are designed to attract visitors. 01:35:19
Not only from the immediate local area, but also from a wider regional catchment area. 01:35:24
Economic Impact. The Entertainment Anchor shall contribute significantly to the local and regional economy. 01:35:30
By generating revenue from ticket sales, concessions, merchandise and nearby businesses, they may also create jobs. 01:35:36
And stimulate tourism. 01:35:42
That's a St. 01:35:46
That we can respond to. 01:35:48
Yes. 01:35:53
I would say what are your thoughts on that? But it sounds like. 01:35:54
I mean, I. 01:35:59
You can, I mean as. 01:36:04
You can make the recommendation. 01:36:08
We're going to have to digest that a little bit, you know, so. 01:36:09
Bryce, I will add so it does provide. 01:36:17
The Planning Commission to review it, to make that determination. I I like it. I was just, yeah, I just kept thinking like the Met 01:36:19
or something. I was like that that sounds really, you know, so yeah, yeah, no, it is a lot. 01:36:26
I mean, we're thinking catchment area more in the line of 15 miles. So I don't know that we're not talking about a world class 01:36:33
institution, right. We're talking about something less than that. 01:36:39
Yeah. 01:36:46
There there was a lot of use of the word. 01:36:49
Significant. I just wonder if we should define that further or if that's even possible to define, or if we should just leave it up 01:36:52
to the Planning Commission when it comes and they just hope that we agree with them. 01:36:58
OK. 01:37:10
Yeah, and we can even work on that language a little bit, maybe before it goes to the I guess we can't. 01:37:12
I'm gonna open it up for public comment unless you guys had something. 01:37:22
Once again, come up. State your name. 01:37:31
Please try to keep it relevant and. 01:37:35
Take 3 minutes. 01:37:38
Yeah, that ones recording that ones for people to hear you. If you have a loud voice, you're good. Okay Tim Heaton in Sleepy. 01:37:43
So. 01:37:51
I'm wondering if you would be willing to commit to a percentage of. 01:37:54
Of owner occupied. 01:37:59
Regardless the number of total units you end up with. 01:38:02
That's the first question. 01:38:06
2nd. 01:38:08
Mr. Blakesley, you mention. 01:38:10
A 15 mile catchment? Where did that come from? 01:38:13
I'm not going to use the words arbitrary and capricious, but. 01:38:20
It's an effort to reach a compromise on how you would measure where people are traveling to to come to this. I think the idea from 01:38:24
the cities perspective is. 01:38:29
This. 01:38:34
This kind of a thing? 01:38:35
The intention is to bring in taxes from outside the city, right? That that it would draw people from other places. 01:38:37
Right, so I really appreciated. 01:38:46
The definition that you read, that's very much more in keeping with what I was envisioning hearing the term regionally 01:38:50
significant. 01:38:54
In line with with what Bryce was. 01:38:58
So I recognize that the examples I'm about to give are probably in some instances, very much beyond the scale of what's possible 01:39:01
in that space. 01:39:06
But some things that are clear examples of regionally significant. 01:39:11
Are the Leonardo museum. 01:39:16
The Clark Planetarium. 01:39:18
Uh. 01:39:21
Some significant. 01:39:21
Gard. 01:39:23
Like Red Butte. 01:39:24
Obviously a zoo would be. That's not possible there, The void. 01:39:26
Even something like that that's more contained. 01:39:31
That's. 01:39:33
That is, that has a draw that people would drive 30 minutes for. I would shoot for at least a 30 minute catchment. 01:39:35
Rather than a 15 minute. 01:39:41
I don't drive to the Salt Lake Valley to go to Zubaz. 01:39:44
Or the cheesecake. 01:39:49
I want to pass the point of the mountain to go to something that is. 01:39:51
That is much more attractive. 01:39:54
And rare than that. 01:39:57
I think if some effort is put into it. 01:39:59
Something much more interesting than. 01:40:01
Than. 01:40:04
Then a park is possible. 01:40:06
So I do hope that happens. 01:40:08
Thank you, Tim. Thank you. 01:40:11
Chapter. 01:40:18
I'm sorry, but may you consider a reception center, Sorry, sorry, say your name first. Yeah, I've talked a couple times. Yeah, 01:40:20
yeah. Just for the record, there is a need something similar to Warehouse 22 in Ogden. My company rents all the time. It is 01:40:26
regionally specific and we drive from Utah County to so there might be a. 01:40:32
Thanks, R. 01:40:38
I just want to point out in the development agreement 2.14.1. 01:40:53
When he mentioned there would. 01:41:00
Affordable housing units, it says in there up to 20. 01:41:02
For rent or for sale Affordable housing units. 01:41:06
So I just. 01:41:10
Make that clear. 01:41:12
Also, have you taken a look? 01:41:14
Possibly PID agreement. 01:41:18
And that might. 01:41:21
How that might be impacted? 01:41:23
With coming next week. 01:41:25
I'd like to ask the develop. 01:41:29
How would you feel? 01:41:31
If an inland port came right across the street from you, with shipping containers and trucking and possible railway, that spur 01:41:33
might be. 01:41:37
To provide rail. 01:41:42
To an inland port. 01:41:45
And then? 01:41:49
I have a question about. 01:41:52
Last time at the planning. 01:41:55
Work session. We talked. 01:41:57
In the entertainment center. 01:42:01
There was a. 01:42:03
Thing on this slide that said possible use of RDA funds to enhance. 01:42:05
That structure I want to make sure that that is not the development agreement and also RDA funds not in the parking agreement. 01:42:11
Mr. Blakely mentioned that they did not have to be in the development agreement. 01:42:18
Thank you. Thanks. 01:42:24
And justice real quick, I did mention in the last meeting that I did want. 01:42:25
That. 01:42:30
We pretty much agreed on that these don't need to be in the development agreement for the pit or the RDA. 01:42:31
So can we just take the language out of the development agreement? 01:42:37
In 4.4. 01:42:49
Dari was saying as far as the pit. 01:42:51
And. 01:42:54
Sure. 01:43:00
So to be clear, A. 01:43:02
And this can be. 01:43:06
Would be an opportunity for us to pay for infrastructure. 01:43:08
By Levin and increased tax. This isn't taking away from any tax base. This would be if I'm paying $10 in property taxes today. 01:43:12
Maybe I pay 11. The PID collects those taxes and remits it for infrastructure. 01:43:19
No degradation. 01:43:27
Of city tax revenue at all for. 01:43:29
And all the development agreement today. 01:43:31
If that's an election that we choose in order to raise funds as a source that we can. 01:43:34
But this would only be for our boundaries. 01:43:39
Right. Our project area, nobody else would be impacted with their tax rate and it simply pays for infrastructure, public 01:43:42
infrastructure. Pids can only pay for public infrastructure. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying that there can't be a pit. I'm just 01:43:47
saying when we talked about it last time, it didn't seem that it was necessary, that it was in the development agreement was. 01:43:52
Yeah, and it's not a pit. It's simply the right to have a pit. 01:44:00
I guess I'll ask Jamie after. Yeah, I don't I. 01:44:04
Development agreement. 01:44:09
OK. 01:44:12
It just I don't but similarly. 01:44:13
I don't know that the disadvantages. 01:44:16
The way the pit statue works is you have to make a petition. 01:44:21
I'm a little agnostic on that provision. I don't it doesn't create a binding obligation if you leave it. 01:44:29
I don't represent the developer, but I don't perceive it as disadvantaging. 01:44:37
Yeah, the only the only reason we were talking about removing it was just so that. 01:44:42
It would alleviate concerns of people. 01:44:48
Didn't have more information about it. 01:44:50
I just want Jake Holdaway, president. 01:44:54
Price I'm 100% on board with. 01:44:57
The language on. 01:45:00
In beating Edgewater. 01:45:03
And we had massive events of people really feeling about. 01:45:05
Amenities or parks? 01:45:09
And so making that a covered space, especially with the height of those buildings. 01:45:11
And the cement and the parking around it's gonna be really hot in the summer. 01:45:15
So getting that 100%. 01:45:20
How are you going to be a really nice amenity where they could walk to from Edgewater? Because it's not that far of a walk we 01:45:22
don't have. 01:45:25
A lot of open space. 01:45:28
And my second question is, is, is this just HOA use or is that for public? Is was that the Republic? 01:45:30
The entertainment thing is public, absolutely, absolutely. And there's no control over that. 01:45:36
From the HOA or anything like that? 01:45:41
OK, I'll see if we can get language in there. 01:45:43
Parking and times that we can use. 01:45:46
Events like late night things, there's no restrictions. I'll ask, OK, That's one of the things I just wanted because that side of 01:45:49
the community was just so loud when we went and met with them over and over, like. 01:45:54
We don't have anything on this side of the track. 01:45:58
Thanks for fighting after that. Thanks Jake. 01:46:01
Sarah Cameron, president of this work, sometimes does, sometimes. 01:46:10
Just. 01:46:14
I've had quite a few citizens reach out. 01:46:15
And request. 01:46:17
Pickleball courts. 01:46:23
But there's it seems like there's a need. 01:46:24
And a desire for and all abilities. 01:46:27
I love the ice skating. 01:46:31
Kim Cornelius Vill. 01:46:47
Just point of clarification, I think it was on Slide #7, but you showed a couple of parking spaces. 01:46:50
In a previous meeting you referred to them as parking structures. 01:46:55
Elevation renderings. I didn't see any structures, so I'm just assuming. 01:47:01
Those are. 01:47:04
Parking areas. 01:47:06
That's just. 01:47:08
Make sure that that was what we're talking about. 01:47:10
Any other questions from the public? 01:47:18
All right, seeing as there are none, do I have a motion to close the public hearing? 01:47:23
Motion to close the public hearing second. All in favor? Aye. All right, moving on to these questions. 01:47:33
As far as the entertainment, is there language in there that we can say? 01:47:42
This would be 100%. 01:47:47
It can't be controlled by. 01:47:52
Then it will be 100% for public use. 01:47:58
Well, it is. It is still a commercial property and so their HOA would control it. It wouldn't be donated to the city as like a 01:48:02
public park, but there would be public access. 01:48:06
Basically there'll be an easement that overlays it that. 01:48:12
This. 01:48:16
And again you can correct me but that easement. 01:48:20
Gives full access to the public. 01:48:23
No matter the use, OK. 01:48:26
Please correct me if I'm speaking. 01:48:27
And then there were some suggestions for things that would be awesome, but we'll. 01:48:30
Let the. 01:48:36
Language, I guess speak for that as far as in my abilities, park or having something covered or doing a museum or any of those 01:48:37
things that Tim was mentioning. 01:48:42
And. 01:48:47
For the for rent and sale and the percent of owner occupied. 01:48:50
So there's twenty. It says in the development agreement that 21 are for rent or sales at the rate. 01:49:01
The. 01:49:09
I cannot think right now, sorry. 01:49:11
Low income, moderate income housing. 01:49:15
Does. 01:49:22
When you're talking about the three story townhomes and stuff. 01:49:23
Would those be included in that or are those two separate things? 01:49:27
When you're talking about a percent of owner occupied or amount of units of owner occupied, are you counting the 21 that are 01:49:31
moderate income as those units or? 01:49:35
You know, we left to say that the affordable units could be for sale or for rent. 01:49:41
I wouldn't say it's determined in the development agreement. 01:49:46
I don't. Again, I don't know how we make that decision this early in the game. There's a lot of economics to go through. 01:49:50
But. 01:49:55
I purposely left that window open for for sale. I know. 01:49:56
OK. 01:49:59
And then with the RDA and. 01:50:06
P. 01:50:11
Um. 01:50:13
Again, I'm either way it's by having it in the development agreement. It really doesn't need to be in the development agreement. 01:50:13
So either way I mean. 01:50:17
Because it really is going to be up to the RDA and the City Council as to whether or not those things happen. And even if the 01:50:22
language isn't in there at all, then those things could still happen. And if it's in there, that doesn't mean that that will 01:50:27
happen, so. 01:50:32
Either way, I. 01:50:37
Matters a whole lot for this. 01:50:43
And then? 01:50:45
With parking, could you bring up the parking is what was structured and what was surface? 01:50:46
So. 01:51:29
The only. 01:51:33
Being shown in this diagram. 01:51:34
It's these lighter Gray sections. 01:51:37
It's a little tricky because in. 01:51:40
Here we go. 01:51:49
You don't see the structured parking because it's behind a layer of residential. You have to call the wrap type garage product so 01:51:51
there is structured parking. 01:51:55
You. 01:51:59
It's designed well enough that you don't have to look at the structured. 01:52:01
And the rest this would be surfaced. These are designed for tuck under garages. 01:52:06
OK, so approval, the first cyclone shall be conditioned upon approval by the Planning Commission of the site plan for a regionally 01:52:52
significant. 01:52:55
That sure has a prominent attraction during all. 01:53:06
Draws visitors and tourists from. 01:53:10
A substantial economic or social impact on. 01:53:17
Commission may consider the follow. 01:53:26
Size, Capacity. 01:53:28
Physical. 01:53:31
To cultural or. 01:53:35
The facilities program and amenities. 01:53:52
So that's actually to delete. So we felt like that that was actually. 01:54:02
Economic Impact. The Entertainment Anchor shall contribute significantly to the. 01:54:10
Yeah, that looks good. Thank you. 01:54:29
Any other? 01:54:34
Any other questions from the Commission? 01:54:37
Drive. 01:54:45
Before anyone makes a motion. 01:54:47
The Planning Commission in this instance is the recommending body, and so you're making a recommendation to the City Council. 01:54:51
I think that means you can be a little bit more. 01:54:56
Inexact with your language than if you were the Planning Commission approving the OR the. 01:54:59
City Council approving the final agreement. 01:55:04
So it's OK from my perspective even. 01:55:07
Present your motion with We recommend approval with the following. 01:55:10
Amendments to the agreement. 01:55:15
Explain what it is that you want and then we can work over the next week. 01:55:18
To get that ready before it goes to the City Council. 01:55:22
Kate. 01:55:26
I have a motion. 01:55:32
You're looking at me. 01:55:44
I'll take a stab at it. 01:55:48
Good, because I'm not a word. So I moved to recommend approval of Resolution 2023 Dash 56 Development Agreement for the Forge to 01:55:51
the City Council, including the additions as stated. 01:55:58
Regarding. 01:56:06
Changes in the agreement. 01:56:08
Do I have a second? 01:56:11
I will second. 01:56:12
This is a roll call. 01:56:14
Chris I Brad, I Bryce, I Tay aye Graydon alright. 01:56:16
Thanks. 01:56:23
There's a lot. 01:56:26
OK, so now our next item we know that you've all that's why we had the work session with. 01:56:28
We're with Brothel to present his ideas, and he likes to get into refracted ice. 01:56:33
The design of the pool, but he's promised to be brief since he did a deep dive. But he'll he'll still go go go through each of 01:56:41
the. 01:56:44
I didn't get to take the last bite of Marty's bread. 01:56:59
I could have finished it. Dang it. 01:57:04
I guess while Morgan is pulling this up so this is part of block 5 in the promenade. 01:57:14
The overall promenade. 01:57:20
Got it. Site plan approval back in August. 01:57:23
So now we're in block 5. 01:57:26
We had shown this piece as being a future pool area. 01:57:29
So now we're coming back in with the site. 01:57:34
Showing you now what is planned in that space. 01:57:37
Yeah, it was that one in the drop. 01:58:12
Yeah. And it was you're going to get quite the. 01:58:42
I. 01:58:46
Guidance. 01:59:00
I got a phone call and I was sitting at a Lonnie. 01:59:03
In a. 01:59:07
I don't think so. 01:59:13
It's real close. We're like right there, it's a good story. So there's there's a couple of slides that I'll probably just skip 01:59:18
over. 01:59:22
And get more like just into the meat of the site plan. 01:59:27
Thanks for staying until 10:30, by the way. Just for your last agenda item. Yeah, of course. 01:59:38
OK, so that's this is the location of where it's at. 01:59:45
In the promenade in the overall promenade in block 5. 01:59:49
These are the slides I'm just going to kind of breeze over. We went through these last week. 01:59:54
So there's. 02:00:00
Four buildings. 02:00:02
Still here? 02:00:06
There's a so this is the the main part of the park, the event lot and the pavilion. 02:00:09
That was proposed in the in the previous approval. 02:00:14
So the things that we're adding is this kind of this area. 02:00:17
I don't know if you can see the mouse very well, but. 02:00:20
A couple of pools, A restaurant. 02:00:25
Locker room, Restroom. 02:00:28
An event. 02:00:30
A spa and a quiet pool And then. 02:00:32
A large kind of. 02:00:35
General purpose pool. 02:00:36
Kids pool and then we're also introducing a splash pad. 02:00:39
Into the just behind the event. 02:00:44
So let's go down to. 02:00:49
Overall site. 02:00:52
Can I make this fill the screen? 02:00:56
OK. 02:01:06
OK, so here's the the restaurant building. It's a two-story building. 02:01:07
The primary entrance into the pool is. 02:01:12
Right in between numbers one and two. 02:01:15
This building here. 02:01:18
Kind of reception, center, locker room, restroom. 02:01:22
And then the second story of that building is the event space. 02:01:26
And. 02:01:29
On the furthest N is the spa area, so. 02:01:31
First level. 02:01:34
Spot. 02:01:36
Lobby. 02:01:37
Some treatment rooms and then second story, additional treatment rooms and then. 02:01:39
Spilling out onto. 02:01:44
The Quiet Pool, like the second story of this pool area. 02:01:46
Are some hydrotherapy treatments like a cold? A cold plunge? 02:01:50
A hot tub and then same. 02:01:55
On the South side. 02:01:58
And then this is the quiet pool up. 02:02:00
Can you even see that? 02:02:04
I'm talking like I'm pointing with this mouse but. 02:02:06
I don't know if you can see it and then this is the. 02:02:08
General. 02:02:12
This building here in the middle is. 02:02:14
Concessions. 02:02:17
Against. 02:02:18
Additional restrooms to the north of. 02:02:21
And then the kids pull, the kids pull split into two different pools. There's the one on the right. 02:02:24
Is a. 02:02:30
One on the left is an older kid. 02:02:31
And then the splash pad out in this area here. 02:02:33
This slide just has a couple of floor plan layout. 02:02:41
On the first story and then the second story is shown here. 02:02:48
Here are the elevations, one thing that was requested by planning staff. 02:02:53
Dimensions on the elevations and so that's been provided. 02:02:58
Now I need. 02:03:03
So. 02:03:11
We're about 135 feet tall. 02:03:12
On our roof. 02:03:15
135. 02:03:18
Oh yeah, 35. 02:03:21
I was like, that was a lot taller than I remembered. 02:03:25