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OK, we're rolling.
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Welcome, everybody. It's a lot of you. Oh, we've got some feedback on the speaker.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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No.
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OK.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's good for you. OK, we're rolling.
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All right. Welcome, everybody. We'll try to talk as loudly as possible so that you guys can hear us.
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We're good. You guys can hear. Oh, is this working? Hello.
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I'm just talking really loud I guess.
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So yeah, we'll try to talk loudly as possible so that everybody can hear. If you can't hear, like raise your hand and just go like
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this and we'll try to talk louder. We'll do the best that we can.
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We're going to open the meeting. I grade an officer is going to give us an invocation and a Pledge of Allegiance.
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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God,
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indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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I.
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Dear Father in Heaven.
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We are grateful to live in America. We're grateful to be here in Vineyard.
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We are grateful to be free.
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We're thankful to meet together to discuss.
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Our city's affairs. We pray for the Holy Spirit to be with us.
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As we.
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Discuss Please guide our comments, questions and concerns.
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Help us to make progress tonight, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. All right, the meeting did start at 6:30 PM and.
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Apologies for the late start. We're gonna move right into the joint session with the City Council for Item 2.1, public hearing for
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the zoning text amendment, medical and commercial uses, and we'll open this up for public hearing right now. So do I have a motion
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to open it up?
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Motion to open for public hearing.
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Second all in favor, Aye, All right.
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Hopefully this will pick me up. Planning Commissioners, thanks so much.
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For bearing bearing with us.
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Hello, hello, hello. I'm sorry.
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Doing fast. So yeah, tonight we have quite a bit on the agenda. On the 1st is going to be the zoning uses. This is the area that
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this will deal specifically with the downtown area. So we have quite a few businesses that are that are that we're working with
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and one that is proposed right now the Huntsman Cancer Institute.
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That's what this does is it provides the allowances for hospital.
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For Heliport, for Verdi Port, very port is dealing specifically with drones and deliveries. The idea is developing quite a few
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medical uses on both the east and the West side. So that's something we've been working on quite a bit. Vineyard has been seen as
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a really great spot for for the medical industry and with the university as well-being a really great partner and willing to to
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partner.
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Also with with.
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With the hospital and with the University of Utah, it's just kind of cool, kind of a dual university, a partnership there. And so
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being able to provide for the views is important. And then medical use is office research. The MP is not permitted. So under the
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downtown station area, that's a core area in Red Hospital wouldn't go there, but it would provide the ability for it to go under
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the downtown. mixed-use in the village general.
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That's the blue and the purple districts that you see there.
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And then the heliport and Bernie Port would be allowed under the the downtown station under the downtown mixed-use and the village
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general. Sorry, I'll try to speak up. And then medical use uses office research under all the districts except for the lakefront
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residential. The lakefront residential is a purely residential district and that's the the Brown district on the South side.
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And this area deal this district, this is more the general zoning district table under the kind of the is the establishment of
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districts zoning table that's that's located just in like the general zoning code. So we have special zoning districts and we have
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like the general zoning code. So this this deals with most of the zoning. So what this does is the provides allowances under the
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FOI that's the green district and the RC that's the the blue.
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Correct. Those are both. The RC is regional commercial and so that's the district that was developed for larger commercial retail
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uses and there's several that we're kind of talking to now. And so being able to kind of make sure that we have the uses within
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the table that could align with those businesses. And additionally with the FOI, the FOI was looked at as really kind of a high
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employment zone type district.
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If you go up on 1600 N north of 1600 N 1750, see a lot of flex office and those kind of businesses.
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That's kind of, it's funny because when I first started that, that was the area that was always doing really well. But because
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there's not like a direct connection from within the city, people don't kind of understand that's part of the city. But we've done
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really well with like the flex office. We've added about a million square feet over the last the last decade in that area. And so,
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yeah, a very healthy and great district for, for, for the city as far as providing quality jobs.
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And so if you go through the districts allows for the clinical support housing. So that would be housing for people that that are
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in need of care and also providing employees that are are working outside that, that kind of couples that with the employment.
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Commercial recreation indoor, it was already allowed in the RC, but not really contemplated in the FOI. We feel like that actually
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would be a really good district to put it in. We we already have like Coconut Cove, Coconut Cove was they they came in.
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Kind of before the area was zoned, it was that I won that really if you remember the zoning district, the zoning ordinance back in
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the day, that was like the the district that covered kind of the northern half of the city. So they were able to come in through
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that. But this would allow for more of those indoor recreation uses. Outdoor recreation is listed as traditional use. So as you
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understand as a Planning Commission, that conditional use is essentially a permanent use, but with conditions, it allows the city
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to apply conditions to help.
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You know, offset any potential detrimental impacts that are foreseen in the planning process.
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And so we've done a few of those. I think we list in some instances car washes or car washes and you know gas stations and there's
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things like that where potentially there could there could be impact. We've had been able to add conditions to kind of safeguard
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residents that live adjacent to those uses. We have golf course, golf course because we have a lot of areas where we do have the
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the structures that were built. As you know, this is the footprint of the Geneva steel plant and there's a lot of concrete and so
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the concrete.
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Some cases actually it's kind of a good thing because that's that provides like Apple places for surface parking, but also.
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This could provide a commercial pipe use. So we don't really have plans for it, but that actually seems like a use that if there's
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really large areas for like what can we do with that? It provides us the use health and fitness facility, teleport, very port. We
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have hotel, motel, motel. Those are conditional uses. Nursing care facility is a permitted use involved.
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Here's the home convalescent care, permitted offices, pharmacy. So just kind of go down the list where where else club we did out
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there the permitted use of the RC that's, you know, for regional commercial. We didn't put in the FYI. We kind of felt like that
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that would be better in the RC assembly place. That's kind of a fancy way of staying church. So basically wherever you see
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assembly place that allows for for churches.
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Then to be fair to religiously, I know this is, you know, those those as well. And so we've kind of followed that.
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Educational facility, these will be mostly public universities. So the state does they are exempt from like the local process. We
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do work with them on utilities connecting neural roads. But if we did have a private type institution that was that's something
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medical nature that actually might couple really well with with the public universities and the the types of employment that we
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have there.
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Emergency care facility.
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And then we have the heliport. So that's that's actually more that we have that part of the discussion is do you feel like that
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should be a conditional use or permitted use kind of listed as both the PE and the C That's something to discuss.
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And in this district, I think it's such a large area that's almost 100% going to be non residential that maybe a permit use is is
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more likely. And so if you, if you let me know how your preference, we could we could eliminate 1.
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And then off of the hospital under conditional use and accessory building, accessory buildings are allowed basically with within a
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year. So we just want to clarify that you can have an accessibility similar to like residential you can have shed, you can have
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access abilities with commercial use as well, but they do have to relate to the primary use on the site. And that is everything
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from my presentation. Happy to take questions.
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Any questions?
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Anything from a council?
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No.
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We'll move up a comment, I think, but.
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So with public comment again, I tried to carry your voice as much as possible. I apologize that the speakers aren't working. State
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your name, which neighborhood you're from, and you can take as much as 3 minutes. If you have questions or something I can write
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those down and I will ask them at the end of.
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At the end of everything.
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Hi, Daria Evans, Vineyard Resident. I just have a question. Talk about the educational facilities.
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I'm gathering from that that means no public schools.
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It just sounds like they're not gearing this development for future families. And so I just want that. I'd like to have that
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clarified for me, please. Thank you.
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I can clarify at the end. Yeah, at the end I'll write them down.
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Any other questions?
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All right. Yes, we're going into, sorry, as far as public schools, as far as public schools, there's not going to be any
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residential in these areas at all. But I'll let Morgan clarify further on.
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Yeah. I mean you do have a lot of environmental considerations for residential right now. It's it's cleaned up basically to an
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industrial standard. So we probably would elevate that in some instances for like retail and that kind of stuff. We want to do a
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hotel to kind of help service some of that employment then you know there there might be no, some things could be elevated. I'm
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sorry.
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I don't even, yeah, due to the environmental issues right now on the site, it's it's basically essentially cleaned up to an
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industrial level and and some commercial levels. So yeah, residential may only be kind of contemplated kind of in support of like
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the hospital the clinical type uses, but that that would be for like patients and employees that are working on them. Other than
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that, it's not like contemplated to do.
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Like like like a a neighborhood or anything like that.
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So as far as a a school, though, schools are, you know, if they own the land and Jamie, you can help me out with this, but my
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understanding is that schools, like a State University are exempt from the local regulations. They stop and work with you in
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regards to connecting to the utilities and your roads. But if a school wanted to go there, they'd have to meet the environmental
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regulations. And so they'd have to go through that process. But we wouldn't, wouldn't stop them.
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Side of you got it right, OK.
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Answer your question, Daria.
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I have another question. I'll let you ask another question. You can come on up. Yeah, nobody else is asking any questions. You
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can.
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OK, so if the school has to meet a development, development.
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The environmental development.
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Like a standard.
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Why doesn't everything else if, especially if you're having clinical support with?
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Patients and things, shouldn't that all be raised to a higher standards so we don't have any problems in the future? Thank you.
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Yeah, that's great. Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
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Any anything built there has to has to has to meet the, I think it's DEQ is, is kind of the the regulatory authority. So yeah, any
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use that goes up there has to has to meet the level. I mean, if it's an industrial use, pretty much it's, it's already it's going
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00:16:04
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to be easier. But if you try to put a hospital in there, it's it's going to be most likely require a lot of cleanup. And, and we
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are in the process of of cleaning that land up. There's been quiet. I mean, I was.
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Kind of one of the original considerations of do the RDA and we've utilized a ton to do that and US Steel and the property owners.
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So over the course of several years, there's there's been a lot of cleanup and there will be continue to be a lot of cleanup. But
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before anything can get built, it has to be the environmental regulations. So there's there's a layer on top of what the city can
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do.
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So, so just to clarify, even though the zoning.
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Even though it's allowed, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's allowed. It's just allowed on one level. They still have to meet
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the DEQ standards to be allowed on that next level, so OK.
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00:16:59
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Thanks, Morgan. No, no comments from.
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00:17:06
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The commissioner or Council? No. OK, do I have a motion to?
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I just.
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I feel like.
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The cleanup in general is difficult to understand, so everybody must be the requirements of everybody and maybe generally for the
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public boarding.
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Yeah, so I'll be so on.
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On the West side, so downtown, everything in red that has been cleaned up to a resident residential standard. That area was not as
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I'd say, contaminated. And I know Pete and you guys have worked really closely in this, but you can add anything. You're welcome.
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But that area's been basically cleaned up and is is ready to go for really any type of use from an environmental standpoint on the
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east side. So you're kind of that turquoise and bluish colors and where the university sits, that area has been under remediation
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for a long time.
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00:18:05
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Good cleanup process and we're still kind of in the process of that. Would you like to add anything else? Yeah.
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Pete Evans with Anderson, Geneva. We own the property on the east side.
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And are in a partnership on the West side. So just kind of in general.
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This area is really designated in to three different areas. There are areas that have been cleaned up, there are areas that are
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00:19:03
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unregulated and were never contaminated, and then there are areas that are still being cleaned up. So everything that you see
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there in the red is cleaned up to what the Department of Environmental Quality calls clean without controls.
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Mean there are no restrictions, no controls. It's been sampled and tested and approved for any land use designation, anything that
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you want to do that residential, whatever.
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Then there are areas on the east side which have been cleaned up, but they have they still have restrictions on what you can do on
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that lane.
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So some of that will be cleaned up to industrial standard.
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So that there will be an environmental covenant.
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And.
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A mitigation plan that will be associated with that land, and it will be there forever as long as that land stays in that
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condition.
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00:20:02
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And then there's areas on the east side where there was number industrial impact and that area is not regulated by DEQ. And so
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those are not part of the DEQ oversight regulation.
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So there's been, you know, over $100 million spent cleaning up the property on the east and the West side. The West side has been
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sampled.
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Ad Nauseam has been designated as clean without controls, no further action, and completely clean.
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The east side, again, there are some areas over there that have both been cleaned up and have environmental covenants and land use
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restrictions. And then there's areas on the east side that are currently still being cleaned up.
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And that's an ongoing process that will take several more years for that cleanup to happen. And then there are areas on the east
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side that were not contaminated and they are not regulated.
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You gotta sorry you have to come up.
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00:21:04
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But it's it still needs to be into the microphone so I can capture it. Thank you.
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00:21:08
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And just state your name.
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State your name and where you live.
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Please state your name and my name is Carolyn Snowden Resident.
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And so my question to you is, you say.
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00:21:27
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I'm new to all of this, so we just moved here not long ago. When you say it's been cleaned up and the process is ongoing, how is
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00:21:29
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it being cleaned up? What is the process for it to be cleaned? Yeah. So it it totally depends on the type of impact that there was
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00:21:37
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and what the characteristic of that soil or in some cases underground water on the east side, what that impact is. So for example,
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on the West side where that was.
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A big detention pond, they call it the cooling pond, right? So they would extract water out of the ground, they would run it
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00:22:00
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through their machinery and cool their machinery. And then they would impound that water in a big reservoir West of the railroad
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tracks. And then that water would cool back down to ambient temperature. It would recycle through. And so it was like a giant
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00:22:12
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heater system. They reuse it, but it was a closed system. So the impact of that land really was whatever microscopic particles
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00:22:17
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were being picked up in the pipes as.
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Through that closed radiator system. So that that was very simple. That was just that dirt was scraped, scraped off that land, and
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then all of that land was very, very heavily sampled. So they took the dirt away. They took the dirt away. Then all of those
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samples were turned into DEQ. They all came up clean. DEQ came out and inspected everything. They didn't own their own stuff. We
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had third party verification from consultants and engineers and they said this land is clean. You can do whatever you want with
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00:22:47
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it. All right with that.
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00:22:53
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On the east side, again, it just depends on where we're talking about. So what kind of facilities could build on the east side?
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00:23:00
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So like I said, there's land that was unrestricted because there was not an environmental impact to that process. There were other
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00:23:12
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areas like under the actual steel making facilities where there were some environmental impact. There's some areas over there
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00:23:17
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where there's some groundwater that's impacted, right, so.
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00:23:23
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It really depends on where and each of those areas have a specific mitigation plan that's being executed. So some of those have
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00:23:30
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been closed, those plants have been closed and and most of those ones on the east side have been closed.
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00:23:37
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Were cleaned up.
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00:23:45
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Conditions on those cleanups, so they say you can do a warehouse here or you can do a distribution center.
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00:23:47
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We could do light industrial manufacturing.
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00:23:53
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I'm so sorry. I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut this off real quick. If you have more questions, you have GEQ and the stuff that they go
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00:23:57
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through. Yeah, yeah. After the meeting, if you have more questions about how the DEQ filters everything and that can be a really
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00:24:03
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long distance. You know what might be helpful? Every single out of questions about just like we've referred tonight, if the, you
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00:24:08
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know, if the property owners would be willing to maybe do a, a, a work session with us and, and I, I think, I think that would
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00:24:14
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kind of help.
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00:24:19
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Yeah. And we could, we could even show like the footprints of everything in the different maps. And I, I think that because I
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00:24:26
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think looking at this like you, you don't realize, but that east side you're at, you know, if you take all that land, you know, 4
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00:24:31
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to 500 acres massive, it's a lot bigger than like a typical zoning map, maybe 10 acres. No, that's like really big. And if we
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00:24:36
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could get somebody from DEQ to come and kind of explain some things too, I think that would be very beneficial. Yeah, we, we can
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00:24:41
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look into that.
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00:24:46
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OK, OK.
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00:24:52
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Do I have a motion to close? Oh, we already closed a couple of. No, we didn't close it. We didn't close it. OK.
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00:24:54
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I moved to close the public hearing.
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00:25:01
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Second, all in favor?
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00:25:04
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All right, moving on to item 2.2, Homesteads Pod one live work development agreement.
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00:25:08
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Do I have a motion to open up a public hearing?
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00:25:15
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I move to open up a public hearing.
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00:25:18
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2nd.
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00:25:22
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Chris all in favor?
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00:25:23
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All right, all right, thank you. I'll have Michael Michaelson the he's the project manager come up. So I'll, I'll give kind of
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00:25:27
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just a brief summary and then he'll he'll get into into the details of the project.
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00:25:33
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Do you want to bring that up?
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00:25:42
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Good. Good evening, everyone.
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00:25:50
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Really quick, just yeah. So this is one that we've been working on for about kind of a year, I believe so on the staff level. And
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00:25:57
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then we came to the Planning Commission. I think we've had maybe 2 work sessions on this and then we had both the long last time
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00:26:05
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the one before. So I really do appreciate Mike Olsen's efforts. We we talked to Mike a while back about.
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00:26:13
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About this project and they had some some really kind of visionary ideas and and how we could provide more.
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00:26:22
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Kind of low cost employment areas because if you think about the cost being a young person coming out of college trying to find a
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00:26:28
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place to live and if you want to do a start up business, typically those are going to be two separate leases and that's going to
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00:26:34
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be very expensive to get, you know your traditional.
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00:26:39
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Office space or you know, warehouse space or that kind of stuff. What this does, a live work unit essentially combines that into
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00:26:46
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one lease and it makes it a really cost effective place so that they have a place to live and a place to have to have to start a
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00:26:51
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business. And so the area that we're talking about and I'll just show you.
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00:26:56
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So that provides 56 essentially kind of a townhome type setup where the ground floor is set up so that it's a it's a flex area
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00:27:04
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where where they can set up a business. It's it's, it's set up with that for the ceiling heights and just kind of the the openness
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00:27:12
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of the area and it has kind of a professional environment. The outside elevations will have kind of a a storefront type type feel
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00:27:19
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to it. And so it's something that we are, you know, we're we're very excited about. We've talked to.
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00:27:26
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UVU about potentially trying to do some sort of a partnership with their business Resource Center. So as people develop business
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00:27:34
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ideas in college, that this could be a really great spot for someone to come and to and to have a cost effective way to to to
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00:27:41
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start a business and to, you know, and a place to live. And anyway, so it would be limited to that kind of that that Northside.
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00:27:47
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And I'll turn the time over to Mike to explain anything else.
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00:27:53
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Good evening everyone.
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00:28:01
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These units are part of my development agreement that was agreed to in December of 2011. So I have on my development agreement I
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00:28:03
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have 288 units on Part 1.
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00:28:09
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The development agreement also required me to rebuild new Vineyard Rd. which we did in 2016 and 2017. And that's shown there in
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00:28:16
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the kind of the purple and in the blue color and that's been given back over to the city. I think we needed that to the city in
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00:28:22
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2018.
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00:28:28
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So these unit types also came up during COVID and we have a project in West Valley Kearns in Salt Lake County where a number of of
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00:28:34
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residents were returning home to work without having any proper zoning. And so we started to look at these units that would
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00:28:44
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accommodate someone who works at home, whether it be during COVID or just the fact they didn't want to go back into the office.
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00:28:54
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So I've not increased the number of units, I've not increased the number of bedrooms and I've not increased the number of square
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00:29:05
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footage in the units.
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00:29:08
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Everything ties back to my development agreement.
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00:29:13
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These units would have, and part of the development agreement would have agreed upon uses. I can't have a commercial kitchen. I
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00:29:17
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can't have a deep fryer. I can't have a hood vent.
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00:29:24
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And these units, if we get approval, will start the underground improvements probably early February and have some of these units
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00:29:32
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start ready for construction by the 1st of July.
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00:29:39
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Just one more thing, when we started working on this with city staff, we looked at some parking issues kind of around the city and
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00:29:51
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since we built the road that you see in blue.
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00:29:57
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We started to look at rebuilding the road by cutting the existing curb line out and pushing it back onto our property, which
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00:30:03
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allowed us, I think we picked up 167 additional parking spaces just in pod one.
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00:30:11
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So.
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00:30:20
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We'll do those improvements as we kind of build our way through the development. We're probably four years out before we
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00:30:22
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completely finish all of the 288 units in Part 1.
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00:30:28
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Any questions?
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00:30:36
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Yes.
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00:30:39
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I don't want to blossom too much, so I wanted just to point out just a few of kind of the site features as well. What's really
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00:30:42
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kind of exciting about this is that it'll provide the employees and the residents of those units the, the ability to access the
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00:30:49
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clubhouse as well. And so it kind of helps to, to, to monetize the, the workspace.
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00:30:57
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On the Northside, they're providing a dog run. I know that was really important thing from I think every time we have a Planning
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00:31:05
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Commission meeting, that's one of the main questions, like it's either parking or is there it's about dogs. And so there's at
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00:31:12
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least a spot for it. The park, Kelly Boren Memorial Park, that is currently a City Park, but it actually fits better as an HOA
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00:31:19
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park. So that's a park that was dedicated a long time ago.
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00:31:26
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To the city from from Mike's group.
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00:31:33
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But we actually would rather the city is our request that Mike's group take it back and stay as open space. They would be able to
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00:31:36
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maintain it at a much higher level than the city would. So it save us money in that regard. Right now, it's essentially being used
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00:31:42
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as a dog park, which you can't because it's you're not supposed to, because it's it's a works functions as a detention basin too
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00:31:48
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for storm water. And so you can't put a, you know, a dog facility for obviously reasons.
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00:31:54
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There and so it would provide the clubhouse is right right next to it. That's that that square right there to the to the West.
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00:32:01
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So we provide an on staff person that would be able to help kind of with the overall enforcement of that of that space. The other
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00:32:07
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kind of amenity too is on the east side adjacent to the tracks where you see it on the red line indicating the railroad right of
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00:32:13
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the way. There is parking spaces that are added. Those will be public parking spaces and they'll be an easement that'll be
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00:32:19
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established that'll provide a public easement to those parking spaces. The idea is that that's a trail that that will connect more
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00:32:25
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regionally.
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00:32:31
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Now, as you see UVU get built out in the downtown get built out, that'll be a direct link to the front runner station and then up
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00:32:37
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until Linden to the the Linden Hollow trail. So it'll actually provide a regional connection that, you know, will could take you
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00:32:43
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up to the Pearl Canyon. And so that that was a spot where, you know, if someone wants to to do like a regional ride on a Saturday,
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00:32:49
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you'll provide the actual public parking. So we we felt that that was a really great kind of asset to the city. The other thing
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00:32:55
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too, Mike's group will.
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00:33:01
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They'll pay for and build the.
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00:33:08
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They'll stub water to that area right there. And so if the city wants to build out their community garden program more in the
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00:33:11
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future, it's been very successful. So this could be a very good spot for another kind of phase of community gardens. But we'd have
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00:33:17
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the utilities in place. Some of the issues of cover past gardens, we had to come in and kind of put that infrastructure in. But
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00:33:23
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then this will make it so essentially we just come in with our boxes, you know, when that when that show that time arrives.
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00:33:30
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I think, I think I think it's kind of kind of covers those other elements. I did have a couple of questions about the dog park and
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00:33:38
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the.
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00:33:41
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That part. Is it possible to swap them? I know that the dog park is only 20 feet wide and just throwing a ball or frisbee in a 20
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00:33:46
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foot wide area for a dog can be difficult. And if we're doing garden spaces, it seems like a 20 foot wide area would be kind of
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00:33:54
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perfect for garden boxes and also just on the other side of Center St. and not on your property.
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00:34:02
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There's a park right there too, so I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to swap the dog park with the.
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00:34:11
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With that park garden area, the way your thoughts were on that, we don't care.
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00:34:19
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OK, the only issue we have found in our.
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00:34:24
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Our other projects with dogs is just a continually maintenance of cleaning up and you know, we've gone from concrete to press
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00:34:29
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granite to gravel to and if somebody doesn't clean up after their dog, it's it's a nightmare. And so but yeah, we'd be happy to
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00:34:36
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look at any of those changes. We kind of processed our site plan. OK, cool.
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00:34:44
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OK, if it's if it's already a storm detention basin or planned, yeah, it kind of double s as open space. I mean, it's not like
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00:35:22
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super deep. And so you're you know, it's not a huge slope and so people go out and they can throw a frisbee and stuff like that.
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00:35:29
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But at least right now we don't want it to be like an official dog park. That's fine. OK. And then as far as parking, I just
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00:35:36
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wanted to clarify the street parking that you have, is that included in your.
|
00:35:43
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Parking for the individual units, yes.
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00:35:50
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Also, public parking, OK, So in our parking management plan, if I have a resident that has a sticker, that person can be there 24
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00:35:53
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hours a day. If they don't, they're going to get the city's going to fall or we'll tell them, OK?
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00:36:00
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OK. And then?
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00:36:08
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For those areas that are on the street, is that on public property or is that on your own property? OK, OK. The front of the car
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00:36:12
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would be on our property. The back of the car would be on the city property, OK.
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00:36:19
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And then as far as a parking management plan, do you have anything in place for you were saying a sticker, I think it's in the
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00:36:28
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development agreement, OK.
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00:36:32
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That's what, So what we would do with this, if the development agreement gets approved, what that does is it essentially the main
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00:36:39
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part of that is approving the use of the live work units. And then what Mike, Mike's team would do is they would then file for a
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00:36:46
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site plan. The site plan would come and you would see really like high level details and we would dimension out everything.
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00:36:53
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And that's where like the, you know, the street parking that that's where we would we would then have his his engineer come in and
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00:37:00
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and analyze at a higher level. I mean, you you would have actual site planning documents as opposed to more just kind of a higher
|
00:37:07
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level development agreement exhibits. OK. So in the current developer agreement, that doesn't say anything to the effect of.
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00:37:14
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|
The pet parking will be allowed on the public streets or are they just in there isn't? Yeah. But what we would design it and so it
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00:37:22
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would it would be a construction.
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00:37:27
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Level type type design, OK as opposed to more conceptual where you go yeah, this is kind of where we're going. We know we need
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00:37:32
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like X, you know linear feet that's kind of what we did here. But this would be an actual length designed plan that that could be
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00:37:39
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implemented by contractor. My biggest concern being that there are other developments that have property that's.
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00:37:46
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That's next to a public St. a vineyard on street where we don't allow them to use the street parking for their development. So I
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00:37:54
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wonder why we would allow in in this case. This is this is parking that's been built into it. And so it would be expanding the
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00:38:00
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right of way. And so that that that's part of it. Whereas a lot of just like the the streets where we have issues, they weren't
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00:38:05
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built with parking into it. Like if you look at the downtown, the downtown is pulled out and and the parking is like built it into
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00:38:11
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the sides.
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00:38:17
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Those are things that the city can look at, but as far as.
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00:38:53
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You know, like whether or not you could do it. Yeah, you do. It's just a matter of designing it so that it works OK.
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00:38:56
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OK, I just bring it up. I just bring it up because of the lakefront stuff. How do I have the parking where there is parking? It's
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00:39:05
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meant to be parking for the lake eventually. Yeah, that's more programming. That's just however the city wants to program that
|
00:39:11
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space. But that's an area where same thing, the the parking was purposeful. Like when we worked with the contractor, we designed
|
00:39:18
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it so they could have parked in on.
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00:39:24
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That kind of thing. It's flip sides here and there, but it's built into it. So how many of the street parking?
|
00:39:31
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Spaces are going to be open all the time for people that want to visit these businesses and stuff. How many of them?
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00:39:37
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|
Are open all the time. I mean, they'll be open all the time. I guess more of what I'm asking is say you're at full capacity for
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00:39:45
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|
all the units and they all have like you've given out all the parking stickers and every single one of those parking stickers
|
00:39:49
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somebody's parking.
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00:39:54
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How many? How many are left?
|
00:39:59
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No residential parking on the north side. That's what we talked about.
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00:40:03
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And then on the South side you'd still be able to apartment still like during the day if someone leaves them and it's it's open
|
00:40:08
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parking.
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00:40:11
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So it would really still follow the same night night parking, but that that's up to you. Like if you, if you want to, we could
|
00:40:15
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look at kind of during the site planning how we how we program it on the north side too. You can even do like a two hour, 3 hour
|
00:40:21
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limit just so the parking turns over more. OK.
|
00:40:27
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|
Galore are going to want to go here and they're going to have little shops pop up and my wife was like, this is this is great.
|
00:41:03
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|
I've always wanted to do XYZ thing and I'm not going to tell you guys because you'll steal her ideas. But no, I think it's a great
|
00:41:09
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|
idea. Is there enough parking, though? That's my concern. And do we have enough in here to require reevaluation of if you build
|
00:41:16
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|
out a phase and it ends up, you know, being great and it's taking multiple years? How do we increase that capacity?
|
00:41:22
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|
So we don't and I live over in Cascade, so we have Tucker Row and the other apartments there that have gone through these issues
|
00:41:29
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where we built some of the higher density stuff.
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00:41:32
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|
There's been parking issues. You have a mix of rental ownership right now it's entirely going to be rentals, but but you could
|
00:41:36
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|
sell units and there could be complexity created. So is there more? And I think this is a question for Morgan and the city. Have
|
00:41:44
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|
|
we adequately addressed the the risk that it could be more popular than we're anticipating where they sell units and does the
|
00:41:51
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|
|
parking strategy account for that? Yeah, right now we so as as the development States and as is the tile they they have.
|
00:41:59
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|
|
Enough parking when they with this added use, I think it was 167 additional spaces that are being provided and that will help with
|
00:42:06
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|
|
kind of the overflow for the resident, for the those living there and, and, and also for, for, for the, for the businesses. And we
|
00:42:14
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|
|
have identified potentially there, there may be some other areas where parking could could be added. I mean, it's, it's one of
|
00:42:21
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|
those things where it's in our best interest that it functions really well because just like you said, if it, you know.
|
00:42:29
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|
Starts turning into a situation where it's hard to get in there and it's going to hurt the business as well. And so that's
|
00:42:37
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|
something too that we can kind of delve even deeper in for the site plans typically where you get into like those level details.
|
00:42:42
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|
But I mean, if there are things that you wanted to insert in the development agreement as like a safeguard, you could, you could
|
00:42:48
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|
|
definitely do that. I mean, we don't have a parking management plan requirement in this one like we do in the forage agreement. Is
|
00:42:54
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|
there a reason we wouldn't want that?
|
00:43:00
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|
Development like this where there's at least some concern, yeah, we have some level of it just from the HOA, how the HOA is going
|
00:43:07
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to manage it, but we could.
|
00:43:12
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|
And so if you're wanting something like like at the level of the Forge that I mean that they're doing it at a pretty high level. I
|
00:43:18
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|
mean, one thing you could do is have, if you wanted to approve it, you could do it with a condition that a parking management plan
|
00:43:25
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|
|
gets approved through site plan. That's how the Forge has it. And you can actually put that language in, in the, in the
|
00:43:32
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|
|
development agreement. That's how the Forge, what was drafted was that the parking management plan before any buildings can be.
|
00:43:39
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|
Approved through the site plan process.
|
00:43:47
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|
They would bring their parking management plan to the Planning Commission for approval. That I think would be a really reasonable
|
00:43:49
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|
|
thing to do. And then you could also, if you, you know, you could have Mike even look at additional places in the, in the
|
00:43:54
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development just to kind of highlight.
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00:44:00
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Is this This mapping doesn't really show really great, but.
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00:44:06
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Mike, I'm parking here, here.
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00:44:10
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Here, here off the street parking.
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00:44:14
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Throughout the community and so it comes spread out.
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00:44:38
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So they weren't quite a bad and he's got a pretty big effort just to make sure he put it like wherever, wherever he could. But I
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00:44:41
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think it's, you know, that's, that's one of the things through the side plan. If you put that in the, in the development agreement
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00:44:47
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requirement for parking management plan to be approved prior to issuance of a, of a site plan, you know, that's, that's how we
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00:44:54
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have it set up before. So I, I think that would be kind of consistent with how we've done in the past.
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00:45:01
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Another thing, I know that the trail is being added in on the north side which will kind of connect things going South, but it was
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00:45:11
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a concern in the last meeting as with these parking stalls here.
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00:45:17
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And kind of people crossing the road or biking on here kind of the safety of that and we talked about reverse parking, but have
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00:45:23
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you thought anymore especially about these spots right here just with.
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00:45:29
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The car is coming this direction. I know that was a concern of some.
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00:45:36
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Members of the commissioners report that was turned into the city.
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00:45:41
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On that curve that my engineer.
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00:45:46
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Traffic, whatever, had no concern on that.
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00:45:49
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We've added a crosswalk that connects phase seven and five, and another one that attaches right in front of my clubhouse and goes
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00:45:52
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over to Phase 8.
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00:45:59
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So we put two crosswalks in there and I think our development treatment calls for those both to have flashers installed, so.
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00:46:07
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Cool. Great.
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00:46:20
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Any other questions? Yeah, So in the letters from the engineer, I'm noticing that they they don't mention the impact of parking
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00:46:22
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with that curve specifically and what the impact on traffic would be for people pulling out.
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00:46:30
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They do mention that he doesn't recommend reverse parking because to sum up.
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00:46:39
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It would be inconvenient for the public to relearn.
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00:46:47
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So, and he does specifically say that he's concerned about the safety of erratic movements or over corrections to accommodate the
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00:46:54
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new conditions.
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00:47:00
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And.
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00:47:08
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I do feel like that is a valid argument to be made, but if we could continue to consider the reverse in parking.
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00:47:10
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People really fly around that corner.
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00:47:19
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First parking issue we had is that what Rd. is not wide enough even? OK OK so they would have to go.
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00:47:22
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So you have to go right in the middle. OK, that's good to know.
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00:47:31
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OK, so.
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00:47:36
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The diagonal parking might be the best we can ask for as I was looking like OK.
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00:47:38
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OK.
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00:47:44
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One thing that does help and we could, we could work with, with Mike's team on this as well, where you have those crosswalks,
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00:47:47
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that's an opportunity where you can do a bulb out, but a bulb out does it shortens the distance for someone to cross the roadway.
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00:47:53
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And, and, and oftentimes if you put like the lights there too, that that kind of creates in, in kind of planning what we call
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00:48:00
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like.
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00:48:06
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Friction, so you know, even though you're not, you know, physically touching it as you're driving.
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00:48:13
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If you have like $12.00 and things like that, then it makes you slow down and, and so those, those types of things help. And so
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00:48:17
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we've kind of considered is there a way for just like this section right here to make it like a slower section where people feel,
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00:48:23
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you know, better crossing because they will have the ability to, to access the clubhouse and, and those kind of things. And kind
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00:48:28
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of vice versa. Residents may want to use the dog run. And so we could utilize kind of those crosswalks areas as an opportunity to
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00:48:34
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create.
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00:48:39
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You know, like like put places to to slow down so visually as you're driving.
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00:48:46
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You're like, you're seeing like maybe like it feels landscaping comes out right there, but it provides a shorting crossing
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00:48:50
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distance. The feeling of the narrowness will naturally slow down. OK, It's because, yeah, the pedestrian and bike safety.
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00:48:56
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Paramount and then also.
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00:49:05
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I I just am concerned of with people backing out into traffic and then someone just flying around that corner. So as I don't know,
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00:49:08
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I enjoy also driving fast and it's kind of fun, but we've got to like make it less fun for people right there.
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00:49:17
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I don't drive a car.
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00:49:30
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25, yeah, it would be. It's a 25.
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00:49:37
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25.
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00:49:40
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So I mean, Danto Provo has it down to 15, which you can't even really coast it to 15. So but it's worth, it's worth considering.
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00:49:42
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You do notice about the pro. And I know there's been a lot of complaints with the kind of the how the parking is, but what they've
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00:49:50
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recently done is they created crosswalk tables. And so they they've they've elevated the crosswalks at the at the beginning of
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00:49:57
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kind of that, that.
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00:50:04
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Didn't work. You have an angle parking and at the end of it. So the east and West sides both have that. And so it kind of helps
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00:50:12
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to, I've noticed since they've done that, it sort of helps kind of set the standard like you're entering and entering a zone. The
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00:50:18
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parking still can be a little annoying, you know, I definitely see that, but that sometimes it's what you do with the
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00:50:25
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infrastructure. As I'm saying, those crosswalks could be an opportunity to sort of help set the tone.
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00:50:31
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For that block.
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00:50:39
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I look forward to seeing the site plan when it comes to we can talk further about it. Any other questions from the Commission
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00:50:41
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Council?
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00:50:45
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Any questions? No.
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00:50:50
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All right, we'll move to public hearing.
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00:50:53
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So again, state your name, what neighborhood you're from, and try to keep it to 3 minutes. If you have questions, I'll write them
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00:50:59
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down.
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00:51:02
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I've been talking to Mike.
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00:51:08
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Shawn Herring.
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00:51:11
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1st, I love live work. I think it's a great concept. Everything in Hawaii is gonna be these live working units, right?
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00:51:15
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Yeah. Just answer real quick. Just the next question, OK. That's 288.
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00:51:23
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Is each unit going to be live owned by the same work owned people or can that be? Is it going to be condomized? I guess so I guess
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00:51:28
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the ownership of the two. I live and work and.
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00:51:36
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And then if they are owned by the same, what's stopping one from subletting the other? And I did a 23 unit live work.
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00:51:45
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Development in Sandy and ran into a bunch of issues and the biggest issue was parking. I know it sounds like we we got a lot of
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00:51:55
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parking here, but when you've got say a married couple living up top and a small business below, even with two or three employees,
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00:52:02
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you're looking at 5 cars or more per unit.
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00:52:09
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So the parking in there is a tough one to calculate because it is always a nightmare and you can go through any live work
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00:52:17
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development and see the exact same thing.
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00:52:21
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So the use is, are they owned? Can they be sublet? Can we not let that happen?
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00:52:26
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The other thing they made us do, which I kind of complained about, didn't like it, but they made us have a door from the live to
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00:52:31
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the work.
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00:52:34
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Because for whatever reason, someone coming in and leasing a work unit did not want a door to somebody's house.
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00:52:39
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We initially didn't have that in our concepts and in our architectural plans, but they made us do that to make sure to try to make
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00:52:46
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sure that the live and work are the same people. So I love to live work idea. I just would be extremely cautious with that amount
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00:52:53
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of parking and and even the amount of employees allowed to work there except and fit 5 or 6 employees in the space of each other
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00:53:00
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probably so.
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00:53:06
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That's my concern. All right. Thank you, Tim.
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00:53:14
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Ryan, Hawaii resident I almost sat down because I echo a lot of those. I think it's a fantastic idea and concept. I am a manager
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00:53:19
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of employees and I know how many more cars come when you have businesses in an environment. What terrifies me is that
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00:53:28
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approximately a few months ago we had a high school senior not more than a mile away hit on the side of a Rd.
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00:53:36
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On For Sale and the parking on 4 S, if you guys recall, is parallel parking. There is no need for people to there is a great need
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00:53:45
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for people to cross the streets and she was hit in twilight hours when somebody was traveling westbound, which is the direction
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00:53:52
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this road turns.
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00:53:58
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At high speeds, as previously noticed, and we are.
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00:54:05
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Setting ourselves up for a lot of heartache, I believe.
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00:54:10
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For for residents who have small children potentially to have a fatality and I and I urge the Planning Commission to reconsider
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00:54:15
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it.
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00:54:19
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Sidewalk parking and make that make those parking spaces go on site to remove that possibility.
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00:54:26
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Sienna's family is paying price for, you know, somebody's.
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00:54:34
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Driving into the sunset, unfortunately, and I.
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00:54:39
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My heart breaks to the front thinking about this, so that's my best. Thank you, Ryan.
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00:54:44
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My name is Terry Ewing.
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00:54:53
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I'm resident apparently.
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00:54:56
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Cooling pond area.
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00:54:58
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I didn't know.
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00:55:00
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Probably that will help, yes. No, the speakers are not able to turn that a little bit.
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00:55:05
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Yeah, yeah. That's fine. We can probably hear you. So yeah, Yeah. Can we turn the podium? Yeah. Bargain. You got that.
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00:55:14
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There we go. That's good. Hi.
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00:55:27
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You know, my surrounder probably only starts. I think it starts at 25, so.
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00:55:31
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So, Terry Ewing, I live.
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00:55:37
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In the villas for cooling ponds.
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00:55:40
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I haven't had any water out of my faucet Anyway my concern my question I just have a request that in the in those places where
|
00:55:44
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there is retail and then living over.
|
00:55:50
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If we could have two or three places where that those facilities actually are working really well, are successful.
|
00:55:57
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I'd really love to go however many miles to see them.
|
00:56:06
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|
OK. All right. Thank you.
|
00:56:11
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|
|
Hi, my name is Jim McGill I live in.
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00:56:21
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|
I have a question. I thought I heard the gentleman say that his developer agreement was signed in 2011.
|
00:56:27
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|
So 12 years ago we agreed to this and we're we're building this is phase three that we're building. Is that right?
|
00:56:35
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|
So we've built the yellow, built the purple, and now we're building the top white. I look at this, I look at this and it is
|
00:56:44
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|
|
startling to me again at the density. It's also startling to me that these are not owner occupied units anywhere in this entire
|
00:56:50
|
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|
area.
|
00:56:57
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|
I, I don't know, I talked to this gentleman just for a second. I don't know how long or what the rules are on a developer
|
00:57:06
|
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|
agreement, but I think that.
|
00:57:09
|
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|
One that hasn't been reviewed in 12 years is worthy of discussion again with the community. This community has changed drastically
|
00:57:13
|
|
|
in 12 years and and all I'm hearing about now on the radio is Governor Cox and his desire to put people in homes, put people in in
|
00:57:20
|
|
|
owner occupied homes and that is.
|
00:57:28
|
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|
This is this is an area.
|
00:57:37
|
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|
Recognizing that it was agreed upon 11 years ago, this is an area where Vineyard could do better.
|
00:57:39
|
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|
And I don't know exactly how to go about doing that, but 11-12 years is too long to sit on your haunches and not do your and not
|
00:57:44
|
|
|
build your project and then expect the people that have moved in the last 12 years to be cool with this. We didn't get anybody
|
00:57:51
|
|
|
that's been here longer than 12 years, less than 12 years, did not get to support this, did not get to hear it, did not get to
|
00:57:58
|
|
|
vote on it. As a matter of fact, 12 years ago, population was half of what it is today. So that's really concerning. Thank you.
|
00:58:05
|
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|
Please keep any guys sorry. Keep any of that quiet, please.
|
00:58:16
|
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|
Thank you.
|
00:58:24
|
|
|
I just have a question about the capacity of new Vineyard Rd. I read Gilson's engineering report where he said that Phase 7 and 8
|
00:58:27
|
|
|
will not affect the capacity of the road. OK, that's 56 units we already have. How many units in phase one? We've got 47. Phase 2
|
00:58:36
|
|
|
is coming on with 20. Next phase two phases coming on, that's additional 56.
|
00:58:45
|
|
|
By the time this is all built out would be 288 units.
|
00:58:55
|
|
|
That new Vineyard Rd. is going to be very difficult to navigate right now that that that roundabout is a tight roundabout. The
|
00:59:00
|
|
|
road is narrow, even though I appreciate that he has widened it, improved it.
|
00:59:07
|
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|
But along with that parking, it's going to be very difficult.
|
00:59:15
|
|
|
To go up and down that road and that's my concern, I.
|
00:59:21
|
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|
I don't know how we could address that other than.
|
00:59:28
|
|
|
Having him pulled back, maybe on the South side, widening that road so we have better capacity, better.
|
00:59:33
|
|
|
Parking for those.
|
00:59:40
|
|
|
Those live work units.
|
00:59:42
|
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|
And also I have a question about the crosswalks.
|
00:59:46
|
|
|
Are they going to be straight crosswalks? Because I thought when we were the last Planning Commission in November, they showed
|
00:59:51
|
|
|
sidewalks that was kind of off, off center, one side this way and one side this way. And I want to know why they're having two
|
00:59:57
|
|
|
different crosswalks. And I think they should choose the safest 1. I think the one off center would be difficult. Somebody might
|
01:00:02
|
|
|
keep running.
|
01:00:08
|
|
|
Not on the sidewalk, you know, instead making that jog over.
|
01:00:15
|
|
|
And so those are my concerns. Thank you, Jerry.
|
01:00:18
|
|
|
Ross Levin's resident. It's already been talked about because it's just a diagonal person.
|
01:00:30
|
|
|
Thickest flawed we're backing with that road today and just backing into traffic. He's just going to gum things up. It's going to
|
01:00:34
|
|
|
cause accidents. It's going to cause like someone else said that people getting hit just just flawed. It's no good and Progo and
|
01:00:40
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|
Center St. and I just wanted to.
|
01:00:45
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|
|
Have it at home one more time.
|
01:00:52
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|
Thanks, Russell.
|
01:00:56
|
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|
Any other comments from the public?
|
01:01:00
|
|
|
All right. Let's get into some of these questions then. I'm close public comment.
|
01:01:04
|
|
|
Yeah, we can close public comment. Do I have a motion to close public comment all in favor, Aye. All right, getting into these I'm
|
01:01:10
|
|
|
up here again too. But with Shawn's question is live work units, they will be the owner, the owner will will be the only one to do
|
01:01:17
|
|
|
it. They won't be able to stop lenders at all. But I'll let I'll let Mike answer that a little bit better than me on the sublease
|
01:01:24
|
|
|
scene. We'll control that by.
|
01:01:31
|
|
|
Business license with the city and also with the management of the subdivision. It won't be allowed.
|
01:01:38
|
|
|
Yeah. And then as far as employees go, having employees come and driving and having a car, how's that gonna the flex space that
|
01:01:44
|
|
|
is.
|
01:01:50
|
|
|
The work unit is only 350 square feet. We can limit the number of employees in the space. That's easy to do. Can we limit that in
|
01:01:58
|
|
|
the developer agreement? Absolutely. OK, OK, we'll we'll get into that a little bit more, but I'll keep working through these.
|
01:02:06
|
|
|
And so the separation from the live work is what kind of separation is it? Will there be, there is a door there? Yeah. As soon as
|
01:02:17
|
|
|
you walk into the flex space, there's another door towards the back that leads up to the residential unit. There will never be an
|
01:02:24
|
|
|
occasion where the person that is using the flex space is not the resident upstairs.
|
01:02:30
|
|
|
And then I.
|
01:02:43
|
|
|
With the crosswalks, as far as the angles crosswalks, are there any angle crosswalks? Are they just straight across the road?
|
01:02:46
|
|
|
And then for parking, is there any possibility of having off street parking of getting the instead of having the street parking
|
01:02:56
|
|
|
there, of moving it all off St. into a small parking lot or something?
|
01:03:04
|
|
|
I'd have to reevaluate how we've laid out the site.
|
01:03:12
|
|
|
OK, I could probably get some off site parking. I already have some off site parking on both the Northside and the South side by
|
01:03:17
|
|
|
adding the additional parking spaces.
|
01:03:21
|
|
|
OK. And we're only talking 56 units that we'll have this live work. I'm not doing 288 units with live work. I'm only doing 56.
|
01:03:27
|
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|
And then?
|
01:03:42
|
|
|
Speaking with speaking about the.
|
01:03:45
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|
What I think, I believe it was Jim that mentioned it. This was approved in 2011 when the majority of our homes were approved. All
|
01:03:49
|
|
|
of the homesteads development where I live, probably where a lot of you live, they were approved in 2011. Lots of single family
|
01:03:57
|
|
|
homes and this section of townhomes was approved and whether or not you agree with it or like it.
|
01:04:05
|
|
|
It was available to see on.
|
01:04:14
|
|
|
Coming into the city or asking somebody about it when you moved here, I actually had a map before I moved here in 2016 of this
|
01:04:18
|
|
|
area with my neighborhood included that showed that there were gonna be 288 units here and.
|
01:04:26
|
|
|
Sometimes it's hard to find that information if you don't know where to look, but asking a city employee or something, you can
|
01:04:34
|
|
|
find that information really easily. And if you don't agree with it now, I'm sorry, but when you bought your house here, which all
|
01:04:41
|
|
|
of us that have bought our house here in the last 12 years, which is I bet 95% of us or more, this was already approved and taking
|
01:04:47
|
|
|
away property rights from somebody that has property rights like.
|
01:04:54
|
|
|
Like if I bought a piece of land in a town and wanted to purchase and wanted to build a home and I knew that I could build this
|
01:05:02
|
|
|
specific home and then ten years later someone's like, you know what? I don't want you to build that house there. You can't build
|
01:05:08
|
|
|
a house. Like how do you feel about that? Like people have property rights. And when you make a developer agreement, you have
|
01:05:13
|
|
|
vested rights, which means that you can build what was agreed upon. And even though a lot of the city has been built and many of
|
01:05:19
|
|
|
the homes that are.
|
01:05:25
|
|
|
That we live in now, we're part of this developer agreement. That doesn't mean that because we don't like it now that these homes
|
01:05:31
|
|
|
are here that we can just take that away. So whether or not you agree with that, I, I can't say, but that is, that's how it was.
|
01:05:38
|
|
|
That's how the developer agreement was approved. And you can't just take away rights like that.
|
01:05:45
|
|
|
Mr. Chair, I can answer that a little further if you want.
|
01:05:54
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So Bryce gave a really nice summary of.
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01:05:57
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Property rights in the state and how they work and, and that's accurate. The development agreement that was approved 10 years ago
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01:06:02
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was a development agreement that set the zoning rights that the owner of the property enjoys and and is vested in.
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01:06:09
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And so what's before you today is really a negotiated improvement to that development agreement. It I went through the agreement
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01:06:17
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while the comments were coming in, just to note the things that it would change from the original agreement. It adds parking, it
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01:06:26
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adds a parking management requirement. It allocates the parking such that there are spaces set aside for public use.
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01:06:35
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There are spaces set aside for the live work units so that.
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01:06:44
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The live work units that will have customers during the day will have places for those customers to park that are near the live
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01:06:48
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work units that won't encumber or get in the way of the.
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01:06:53
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Other residences.
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01:06:59
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There are concessions by the developer to improve some of the amenities in the area. We talked about the dog park, we talked about
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01:07:02
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stubbing the area for.
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01:07:06
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The future garden use, if we want to do that, it limits occupancy and has an agreement in in there that would.
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01:07:11
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Reduce or or cap that occupancy so we understand it a little bit better and then it clarifies on the live work units what that use
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01:07:22
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is, what the uses are that are permitted within that area. It's sometimes hard to appreciate the time that goes into negotiating a
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01:07:28
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lot of those provisions and the, the many conversations we have offline with the developer to work on those and and try to make
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01:07:35
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sure that they're improvements to the prior agreement. But I, I really think what's.
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01:07:42
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Before the Planning Commission today is something that takes the rights that are already vested and tilts it to the benefit of the
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01:07:49
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city in really important ways.
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01:07:54
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Thanks, Amy.
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01:07:59
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So touching on some other things as far as owner occupied.
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01:08:02
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Why aren't you doing any other occupied? I know you touched on this in the last public Planning Commission meeting, but just.
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01:08:08
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Go over it again. Just made a decision as a developer to keep the units and Lisa, yeah, it's just a just a business decision.
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01:08:15
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OK. And Jamie, maybe you could talk about this too, as far as the city making?
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01:08:24
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Is there anything that the city could do to require a developer to have owner occupied units?
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01:08:31
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Not the terms of the development agreement. Leave that decision up to the developer. There are things you could put in code you
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01:08:39
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know for future uses. It wouldn't apply to a use that's already approved. OK, so currently this developer.
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01:08:46
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Can put in 288 units in this like you said, like Jamie was saying he's added parking he's added different amenities and he's made
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01:08:55
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the possibility for live work units which was not the live work units is really the big discussion here is do we want live work
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01:09:02
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units in the city or do we not the benefit that we get with the woodwork units is live work units we can walk there we can go to
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01:09:09
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these units as far as.
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01:09:16
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Density. It's going to be the same either way.
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01:09:24
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As far as parking, we're getting more parking. So the big question with this development is.
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01:09:26
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Is do we want live work units and so.
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01:09:34
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Yeah. Are there any other questions from the Commission or from the Council?
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01:09:38
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All right. Thank you, Mark. Thanks, Mike.
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01:09:44
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Moving on to.
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01:09:47
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2.3.
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01:09:52
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Moving on to 2.3, the East Geneva Land Donation and Development Agreement.
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01:09:55
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Do I have a motion to open up a public hearing? I move to open a public hearing. Drive a second.
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01:10:00
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Second all in favor, aye.
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01:10:07
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All right.
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01:10:10
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Mr. Chair, there's a little procedural wrinkle to this. Do you want me to explain that? OK, so this items on the agenda for public
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01:10:19
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hearing and then a recommendation from the Planning Commission.
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01:10:25
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The developer and applicant in this circumstance is asking us to modify the agreement to make it 2 separate agreements instead of
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01:10:31
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one agreement with the substance being the same but the form of the agreement being a little different where it's two separate.
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01:10:40
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Their reason for the request I understand is tax related. It doesn't affect what the city's rights or what the city receives.
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01:10:49
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Under the agreement, So what we propose to do today is continue with the public hearing.
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01:10:59
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You can make your recommendation based on the substance of the agreements and then when it comes to the City Council, we'll split
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01:11:06
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the two agreements for that tax reason.
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01:11:10
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I'll review it to make sure that it doesn't change the substance of what you've recommended and what you've approved, but it'll go
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01:11:16
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forward in a little different form than what you have in front of you today. So what? What does it mean by splitting it into two
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01:11:21
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like 2 sections of it? Or what exactly?
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01:11:27
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Land use.
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01:11:38
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Will be a separate agreement.
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01:11:41
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OK. And then so you'll want us to continue the public hearing to like have the public hearing but have it open, OK.
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01:11:42
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So I wanted to note that now, so.
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01:11:55
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OK. Thank you.
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01:12:03
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And a peanut might might have a good Abby come up.
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01:12:13
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If you wanna give an overview of it, thank you.
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01:12:15
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So members of the Planning Commission appreciate the opportunity. Pete Evans with the developer. So as originally proposed, this
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01:12:21
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was a land development donation agreement. Like Jamie mentioned, we're splitting those into a land donation agreement and then the
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01:12:28
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land use agreement so that the two were separated. So we're still still committing to donate the right of way that would be needed
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01:12:34
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for the Mill Road ext between 800.
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01:12:41
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North and 1600 N.
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01:12:47
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That alignment is has not been finalized. And so the agreement will basically say they'll have an exhibit showing the preliminary
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01:12:50
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alignment that's been designated by the city engineer when that gets the final design and final engineering and that will be the
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01:12:57
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right of way that's dedicated for that that road facility.
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01:13:03
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Yeah, for no, for no consideration. So that'll that's just the land donation, OK.
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01:13:12
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I guess maybe you can give a kind of a summary of what this is for everybody that's here. Yeah, sure. So that's the first part of
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01:13:21
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it. The second part of it is.
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01:13:25
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The land use agreement or is you know, a development agreement, so that part of it would vest the zoning that's currently in place
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01:13:31
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today, so the regional commercial.
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01:13:38
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The flex office industrial that we talked about at the very beginning of the meeting that Morgan showed this light up, those uses
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01:13:45
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would be invested so that we can rely on that zoning as we develop that area. That area will be years long in development and in
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01:13:51
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and in planning.
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01:13:57
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We're currently talking to users that are interested in those areas, in locating in those areas.
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01:14:04
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That process with those kinds of users takes a very long time and so it's important for us to have certainty in the zoning and
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01:14:14
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what we can rely on when we're doing both development plans and then also talking to potential users.
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01:14:20
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With the developers, well, another thing is, is we're planning on putting a lot of infrastructure in, get going on mill roads,
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01:14:31
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sewer, power, water, gas, as we found everywhere else in the city. And the infrastructure really needs to go in first before
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01:14:36
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things start to occur. And so just as Mill Road ext to the South went in and then everything started to blossom and develop around
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01:14:42
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it, similar thing to the north, we're not asking to change.
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01:14:48
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Any any zoning as a part of this?
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01:14:54
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It's just, you know, what's currently there and then the environmental, you know, that's been a question tonight. Anything that
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01:14:58
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goes there will have to meet the environmental covenants that DEQ sets out.
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01:15:03
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So Morgan, I guess the question for you.
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01:15:12
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If we weren't to approve this for some reason.
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01:15:18
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What would be the impact? Why is this coming forward now? I guess we do have.
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01:15:24
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Several medical uses, some even working in that area. Oh, sorry. So the city, I'm trying to do like some warm ups. All right, so
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01:15:32
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the city has been working quite a bit with medical users. So we do have the Huntsman Cancer Institute over on the downtown side.
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01:15:39
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And then the hope is that we get these other medical users.
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01:15:46
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To be able to locate on on the east side. And So what this does is it helps to to provide that the predictability as we as we work
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01:15:54
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with them from an economic development standpoint that they know that they can count on design. So it does it does help to lock in
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01:16:00
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the commercial and the medical zoning. And so that provides that that predictability as opposed to it it being changed. So it
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01:16:06
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helps from economic development because you know, if you're telling someone you can do a hospital here at medical use there if if
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01:16:12
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it's not something that.
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01:16:18
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See as concrete and it's, you know, it's, it's tougher to, to, to get them to commit. And so just to clarify, it's zoned for that
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01:16:24
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currently. But that zoning, what would it take to change that zoning? What we're doing too is in the use table. So it's passing an
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01:16:31
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ordinance. And so the use table that we have right now that we're proposing provides for, for those, those those medical uses. And
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01:16:39
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so we believe kind of under the zoning right now, it's very general. So we wanted to make it very specific.
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01:16:46
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So when we're talking to a hospital, we're talking to a medical provider or a research institution that we can actually point and
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01:16:54
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go look, it says research, you can do research here. That's really important to them before they're, you know, they're gonna make
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01:17:00
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a really significant investment that they actually see in the zoning that that they can count on that that land use being in
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01:17:06
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place. OK, so I know we have the zoning text amendment, but for this specifically, like what, what would it take to change the
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01:17:12
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zoning? Like what's the fear of the.
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01:17:18
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Of somebody coming in commercially that the zoning might change all of a sudden like.
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01:17:24
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Yeah, just to clarify, Yeah, Yeah. So that's exactly the fear. So the reality is for something to change, they would either have
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01:17:31
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to be an application submitted or there could be, you know, a city initiated zone change if they decided to redo the general plan
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01:17:37
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or land use designations. And so where this is going to be multiple years and you're going to have users that are going to plan on
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01:17:43
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being there for decades and decades.
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01:17:49
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One of the questions that they ask is, are there vested, you know, development rights? Now in this case we're we're not asking to
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01:17:55
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change the land use designation. So usually when you have a development agreement coming to this body, it would say we want to
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01:18:01
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change the land use designation to XY and Z and we want to change our zoning to ABC. We're we're not doing that. We're just saying
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01:18:07
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we want to make sure that we have predictability and consistency with the zoning that's in place right now. We can work with the
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01:18:13
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zoning.
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01:18:19
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That's in place. We just want to make sure that we have predictability in the future.
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01:18:25
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So if we ever did have a use that didn't conform to the zoning, if we wanted you residential or something else, we would have to
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01:18:32
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come back to this body and City Council and ask to change that. So there may be uses in the future that everyone hears like, yeah,
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01:18:37
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I know we want that. You want it, they want it, we want it. And we all shake our head and say yes. And there may be uses that we
|
01:18:42
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say we really want bring them back. And you all say no, we really don't want that. But that would have to go through an additional
|
01:18:47
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process that happened.
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01:18:52
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All right.
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01:18:59
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You guys have any questions?
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01:19:01
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I I have a I know this is going to come up from the public, so I'm interested to know how does this overlap with the public
|
01:19:03
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|
infrastructure development notice? I think that went out for the same parcels and.
|
01:19:10
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Specifically around the tax revenue aspect, is there any impact there that may be considered? Yeah, I can answer that. So these
|
01:19:18
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have they're totally separate and have nothing to do with each other. So I know there's next week is going to be a big discussion
|
01:19:24
|
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about kids and about England Ford and some of those things. And I think this has absolutely nothing to do.
|
01:19:30
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With those items, so with a PID so, so in this I mean we expect in the general plan.
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01:19:36
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RDA funds are used to extract tax revenue. Creation of the PIT, is that going to impact at all? I thought that that was created
|
01:19:43
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|
the tax revenue that the city would collect. So I mean, we can, we can get into that this week or next week when it's on the
|
01:19:49
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agenda. But a PIT is just additional tax on top of the ad valorem tax.
|
01:19:55
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Which is, that's why you have to have 100% of the property areas in a, in a, in a zone agree to this. Because what you're saying
|
01:20:01
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is a property owner, which is all us, we're saying we will levy an additional tax upon ourselves on top of the property tax that's
|
01:20:07
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already paid. This is an additional tax that we will pay and, and then we pay that tax over time. So it's, it's not an additional
|
01:20:13
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tax. It doesn't affect anyone else in the, in the area and it doesn't affect the, the ad valorem property tax that's already
|
01:20:19
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committed to being paid on site.
|
01:20:25
|
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That'll be more of a discussion for next week, but this item on the agenda tonight is totally independent and has nothing to do
|
01:21:02
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with the discussion that we'll all have next week.
|
01:21:06
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So I guess just to clarify that, um.
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01:21:13
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This item on the agenda, we're investing the zoning for the ROI and the.
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01:21:17
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FOI and.
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01:21:25
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And.
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01:21:27
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Which means that the things that are approved in the zoning for that which we just talked about in zoning text amendment for
|
01:21:30
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medical and commercial uses.
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01:21:34
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|
That those things can be put here. So what we're discussing now is just the vesting of the zoning for this area, so the things
|
01:21:39
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that are on the agenda for next week for the City Council.
|
01:21:46
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|
The inland port, The PID.
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01:21:54
|
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|
Those are for next week. So if you have questions, if you have comments on that come next week for the the public hearing for
|
01:21:57
|
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|
that. But right now we're just talking about specifically the vesting of the zoning in the east and the donation in the east
|
01:22:05
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|
Geneva land development, OK. Any other questions?
|
01:22:12
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Anything from the Council?
|
01:22:20
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|
All right, public.
|
01:22:23
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Did you guys get a map up of the area just to?
|
01:22:29
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|
Hello again. I just have a question. What is an Mai appraisal for these income tax donation purposes?
|
01:22:39
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That's listed in the summary.
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01:22:50
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And also, if we do this, the city will assume full responsibility for the ownership and maintenance of the road and improvements.
|
01:22:52
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What will that all entail?
|
01:22:57
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|
Thank you. Thanks, Aria.
|
01:23:05
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|
Any other questions from the public?
|
01:23:12
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|
Sean Herring, still the new resident.
|
01:23:16
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I know you said not to ask about the important I'm going to how does this approval tonight, if this was to be approved, which I'm
|
01:23:19
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|
most likely council is going to approve it, how does that affect next week? Or does next week's approval override tonight's
|
01:23:25
|
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|
approval? And why the two so close to each other? We're talking about the same property.
|
01:23:31
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|
OK, yeah, I'll ask.
|
01:23:39
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|
Yeah, Sean, I'll try to clarify what the different actions are just to draw a bright line between them. The decision on this item
|
01:24:11
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is not the kind of thing that would usually come to the Planning Commission, but because it related to the text amendment that
|
01:24:18
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they're considering, we thought it best to bring the two together and.
|
01:24:25
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Do it all at once. So the land donation and development agreement really accomplishes two things. The developer provides the land
|
01:24:33
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for the street and road improvements. There are choices developers can make about when they make those donations. They can wait
|
01:24:39
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until the end when you do a.
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01:24:46
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Site plan and then they begin pouring permits and then those things would occur. You could do like we saw in the development
|
01:24:53
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|
agreement on the prior item where they'll chunk the property into phases and they'll make certain Rd. improvements at certain
|
01:25:01
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times. And cities tend to defer a little bit to developers on those things because they have the best knowledge of.
|
01:25:09
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Their own cash flow and their own tax benefits, and then we check what they propose to make sure.
|
01:25:18
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That people aren't going to be living in buildings without the ability to enter and exit and get out. And so we force developers
|
01:25:25
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in those circumstances to provide those things in a sequence that will work for the city. So in this agreement, what you're all
|
01:25:31
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|
you're really seeing is the developer making a choice of when they want to make those donations and it relates to their own
|
01:25:38
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|
financial decisions and it really doesn't affect.
|
01:25:44
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The city's rights and so works were generally accepting of that kind of thing.
|
01:25:51
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The second part of the decision or of the document is that when they make that donation their rights vest so they know that when
|
01:25:56
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they abandon that property and and give it to the city that they're not going to be harmed by the city. Then changing the zoning
|
01:26:04
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so that they can't build what they're expecting to build. I hope that makes sense. The paid decision next week or the PID hearing
|
01:26:11
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|
is a public infrastructure district that.
|
01:26:18
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Relates to the overall development and how do you fund the public infrastructure in those areas. And I don't want to get into too
|
01:26:26
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|
many of the details today just because the agenda is long, but the short of it is a public infrastructure district that allows you
|
01:26:35
|
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|
to localize the tax collection and the construction of the infrastructure so that the tax impacts of that.
|
01:26:43
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|
Development are in that neighborhood and not in other neighborhoods of the city.
|
01:26:53
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|
Crystal clear. Understood. Still though, the concern with what happens tonight and what happens next week. I guess as a developer,
|
01:26:58
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|
why would I bring something up front of you now and then bring something completely different in front of you next week and maybe
|
01:27:03
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|
they can answer that.
|
01:27:08
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|
It's just a practical of how many things you can fit on an agenda in a given evening.
|
01:27:14
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|
Sorry, Pete, you're gonna have to come up.
|
01:27:22
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|
Would it be fair to say that the things that we're going to be talking about next week don't affect land use?
|
01:27:27
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|
Designations and what you can do on that land. So when he's saying, hey, if one of these two things are approved next week, it's
|
01:27:34
|
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|
gonna undo this, that's not accurate. I mean, what we're talking about tonight is land use and what you're allowed to do on your
|
01:27:40
|
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LAN.
|
01:27:45
|
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|
What we're talking about next week is more like infrastructure and how does infrastructure work and get financed.
|
01:27:51
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|
Even on the inland port.
|
01:28:00
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|
OK. Thank you. Thanks. SO.
|
01:28:03
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|
Miguel Lakeview Dr. Is there a land use map for this area in red?
|
01:28:09
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|
Can you bring that up the land, the one we just had up? Yeah, the zoning.
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01:28:16
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Yeah, it was the one we just the one we just talked about, OK. In this map it looked like a free for all, so I didn't know that
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01:28:21
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that that was. Yeah, we had this nice discussion about zoning and property rights and all that stuff. Yeah.
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01:28:29
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OK, so this is so this is everything in color there with the exception of well, no, everything in color there is now going to be
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01:28:39
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he's asking for vesting of everything in there. So it's this little part right here this which pieces this area, OK. And this
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01:28:46
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area. Oh, got you. OK, perfect. And how many acres is that?
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01:28:53
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Just over 300.
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01:29:01
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For the record, just over 300.
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01:29:04
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Sorry. Thank you very much. Thank you.
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01:29:06
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Any other questions?
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01:29:12
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My name is Jacob Walter all the way I ran for City Council.
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01:29:20
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And there was a very public process gathering thousands and thousands of people.
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01:29:25
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That involved talking to him and whatnot and.
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01:29:33
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The major discussion was that the.
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01:29:37
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Property rights were vested, invested, and they said they weren't vested. Over and over and over, hundreds of times this was
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01:29:39
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repeated, right.
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01:29:44
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In about a couple weeks, we'll be seated.
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01:29:49
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Over a 2 to one more majority currently and I know this isn't done.
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01:29:55
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Spoke There was a major topic during the election.
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01:30:01
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These people spoke.
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01:30:05
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They asked to be hurt.
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01:30:08
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This government is for the people.
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01:30:11
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By the people.
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01:30:14
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To have this.
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01:30:18
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Push through invested especially for the first project to say this was vested 12 years ago, right. So we have to do it.
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01:30:19
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So the vest this now.
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01:30:27
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We worked hard.
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01:30:33
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We played by the rules.
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01:30:36
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Main things were said, we stayed above board.
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01:30:42
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We had public comment.
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01:30:46
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I'd ask you to allow the people to be heard.
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01:30:52
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OK, that does not mean we would say no.
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01:30:58
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That does not mean that we would not give them a fair shake.
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01:31:03
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That does not mean that we wouldn't look at private property rights.
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01:31:07
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And follow the Constitution on that.
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01:31:11
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I know that many of you guys.
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01:31:15
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Didn't know about this plan as of on Monday.
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01:31:18
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It's never been presented to you. I talked to Commissioner Jenkins. It's no longer on there. It wasn't either to him.
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01:31:23
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Talk to council members, they too were rushed on this.
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01:31:30
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One of the main products.
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01:31:33
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Things on the campaign with government process slowing it down.
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01:31:35
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Allowing people to understand before vesting rights.
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01:31:40
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Now those rights that have invested already, we have to respect it is the Constitution.
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01:31:45
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Right, but these have not been vested.
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01:31:50
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The last thing I want to say is.
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01:32:00
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I'm disappointed that the conversation was misinformation of is it vested because 300 acres is a massive section of property to
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01:32:03
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not be vested and to be attacked in the public square. That everything is vested and everything is vested. This could have been
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01:32:12
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cleared up. To improve public dialogue, we have to improve the knowledge and the truth of what is or is not said by this body.
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01:32:20
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The average citizen has a third grade understanding of what we do, and if we don't use truth in delineating, we could have had a
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01:32:30
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better public debate during that election process.
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01:32:36
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And this is, and I'm not going to get into the pit or anything, but also how difficult that was.
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01:32:43
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We just put this onto the website, we don't put it on the social media, even though we know the information is going to be
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01:32:51
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consumed by social media.
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01:32:55
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It looks like it's by design.
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01:32:59
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That's not good.
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01:33:03
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You know the average citizen doesn't have time to come to these meetings.
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01:33:05
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We don't have to scramble. I got 100.
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01:33:10
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Calls, emails and texts saying hey, I voted, I wanted to be heard.
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01:33:12
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Did that election matter? Are we just going to trample forward on it?
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01:33:19
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And I want to be kind, I want to be respectful of authority and everything.
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01:33:24
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But to do this in this manner.
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01:33:29
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We were, we were elected and this will be sworn in.
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01:33:32
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And to go before the people.
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01:33:37
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That's been 3 minutes Jake saying if you could wrap it up.
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01:33:40
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I appreciate and respect everybody's authority, but I would respect that the people be heard in this election.
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01:33:44
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Thanks.
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01:33:50
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Are there any other public comments and maybe maybe to help some people with this?
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01:33:53
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When we talked about the zoning text amendment for medical and commercial uses, think about these areas I guess and think about
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01:34:05
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what is approved for the FOI and the RC districts and if you have serious problems with the things that can be built there.
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01:34:13
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Like this would be an opportunity for you to address concerns like that.
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01:34:22
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If this isn't, there aren't residential units being built here. As far as controversial buildings, I don't know of any that have
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01:34:28
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been brought up during the election or anything. I don't know of anything in the FOI or the RC that people are going to be mad
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01:34:36
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about going in. It's what we approve tonight is some medical stuff. There's industrial, not industrial. There's light
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01:34:43
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manufacturing, there's businesses. This whole area is.
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01:34:51
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Is non residential if there are, if there are instances where somebody has come out and said that they don't want things that in
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01:34:58
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the city that aren't residential, I haven't heard them personally. But if you have those kinds of complaints, by all means now is
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01:35:05
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your time. These things have been zoned like this for a while.
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01:35:11
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Vesting these rights, I don't think is is going against what the city wants personally. I don't think that maybe somebody else can
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01:35:19
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think that, but.
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01:35:24
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All of these things for me personally at least that are in that are approved to go in these areas. I would love to see in the
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01:35:30
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city. And I'd be surprised if there are people in the city that didn't want these kinds of amenities or businesses in the city.
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01:35:36
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But if you have those concerns, now is the time during this public comment to make those to to talk about that. So if you have
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01:35:42
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those kinds of concerns, please come up state those concerns.
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01:35:48
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We do have a microphone.
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01:35:55
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People talk so.
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01:35:57
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You still have to speak into the other microphone.
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01:36:00
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So maybe this is, I don't know, small, but I was watching up here and there was some kind of eye rolling and things that I thought
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01:36:05
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was very inappropriate and shaking heads. And I mean, I don't know if this is on video, but just for what it's worth, that was not
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01:36:11
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very nice.
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01:36:17
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The other thing is.
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01:36:25
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I'm I'm not actually, I don't know enough right now.
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01:36:28
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To, to say what, how I feel because I haven't had time enough to think about it. Probably the thing that I would say more than
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01:36:32
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anything right now is that it's the speed or the, the, the shortness of public awareness. And this is a, this is maybe a simple
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01:36:39
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example, but as the Arts Commission, we were working on the mural and we had it had meetings. It was agreed upon and unanimously
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01:36:47
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by our.
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01:36:54
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Mission and then we get a text saying we need to put it out for public opinion, we need to do a survey, and I thought that was
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01:37:02
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kind of interesting that maybe we should do more of that for this. If we did it for a mural, maybe we could do it for something
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01:37:09
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that's the state and I, and I don't mean to be I hope that doesn't sound condescending either. I just think if it's going to be
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01:37:15
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good.
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01:37:22
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And now it will be as good in 60 days from now.
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01:37:30
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Or.
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01:37:34
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We don't have to decide tonight if it's good. We're going to know more about it. Let's get the public aware because that's
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01:37:37
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probably what I'm hearing more than anything is like people feel like it's just being done faster so that it seems.
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01:37:44
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Hurried, that's all.
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01:37:53
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Any other?
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01:38:00
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Hi, my name is Mike Cox and I live in Providence.
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01:38:04
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I I agree with what Jake said and what she said. I I don't feel like that this process has been open enough.
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01:38:11
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And it's been it's obviously being rushed. I would like my I have a one question I would like to know.
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01:38:20
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I would like each Member of the Council and each member of the Commission.
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01:38:30
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To publicly state on the record, when did you first hear about the inland port?
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01:38:34
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And that's my question.
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01:38:41
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It's real quick.
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01:38:48
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Sure. I mean, we're not talking about the inland port right now, but just real quick, I did want to talk about.
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01:38:53
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This area in particular which is on the agenda.
|
01:39:01
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We talked about how things are rushed through and I agree.
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01:39:07
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With that, there are some things that get rushed through for sure. This in particular talking about this with the zoning text
|
01:39:11
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amendment and the development agreement for this area. Our general plan has been around for a long time. We all contributed to the
|
01:39:19
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general plan when it was approved in I think it was 2019 when we did the last approval of it, the map on the general plan.
|
01:39:28
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Shows this right here. It shows this zoning right here. So this isn't a surprise zoning. This isn't a surprise change.
|
01:39:37
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That each of us had input on that has been approved. That is a public document that you can see right now on the Vineyard website
|
01:40:15
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|
of this map that you're seeing right here. You look at it on the general plan, the general plan map, it looks exactly like that.
|
01:40:21
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So this isn't a new thing. The thing that we're talking about tonight, the thing that we're discussing right now.
|
01:40:28
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Is not the Port Authority. I don't know how I feel about that. I haven't learned enough about that. That's on next week's
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01:40:37
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discussion.
|
01:40:40
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And I hope that we can hash that all out, and that's I hope that we can figure out what's best for the city. But right now we're
|
01:40:44
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talking about the vested rights for the Eastern Geneva Land Donation and Development Agreement that is in our general plan. This
|
01:40:50
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isn't a new thing. These are things that we want in the city.
|
01:40:56
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Like I agree, I agree that there are things that that can get pushed through, but this is not one of those new things that's
|
01:41:02
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|
suddenly happening. So if you have any more comments, just please keep that in mind as you make your comments. But.
|
01:41:09
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Again, still open to as a public hearing for you guys to make comments.
|
01:41:17
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|
I think it won't answer my question. Oh, Sir. Yeah, I'll answer your question. I I learned about the the inland port when it was
|
01:41:22
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made as a public hearing probably the same time as a lot of you. So I don't, I don't know very much about it at all. Yeah.
|
01:41:30
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But.
|
01:41:40
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So I heard about it Monday. Also, I'd like to clarify the eye roll. It was about Jacob all the way's comment. It was because he
|
01:41:41
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rolled in two separate, totally different things into one. We were talking about the vested rights of land use change and the
|
01:41:48
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donation of land. And he rolled in pod one into his comment because parking gets people rattle. So that's why I rolled my eyes.
|
01:41:55
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|
But all right, go ahead. Because he just confuses people. So he throws in a bunch of stuff.
|
01:42:02
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|
I'm Keith Hold away. I'm a long time resident. I might be the oldest 1 here and I was here when the town was 47 people and our
|
01:42:11
|
|
|
population was going down.
|
01:42:17
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But anyway I am.
|
01:42:24
|
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|
As a historical background, almost every Vineyard council has actually had this N property as as an area that would be our future
|
01:42:29
|
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|
tax base.
|
01:42:35
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Forever.
|
01:42:42
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And I hope we haven't abandoned that. I hope we can collect every penny from taxes, taxation that we normally would, that we have
|
01:42:43
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anticipated over decades of time.
|
01:42:50
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And, and, and that we're protected that way.
|
01:42:59
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Otherwise, everyone in this room and a few 100,000 or a few.
|
01:43:03
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1000 people more will have increased taxes like crazy.
|
01:43:09
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|
We've got to protect that tax base and, and, and that's my main focus tonight. I wish we were less populated personally.
|
01:43:14
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|
I think we should have our share of high density, but I'm sorry we've gone too far.
|
01:43:28
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|
But but that's just me. I'm old timer. Thank you. Thanks Keith.
|
01:43:34
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|
Jim McGill, Lakeview Dr. I'm getting a little tired of the of the.
|
01:43:46
|
|
|
The lessons on general plans and the general plans are guiding documents, a guiding document that before we vest, we have
|
01:43:51
|
|
|
significant conversation about the general plan. This is just big. This is just big colors on a map, 331 acres of do whatever you
|
01:43:58
|
|
|
want to do that's within the.
|
01:44:04
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|
3 letters.
|
01:44:10
|
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|
And it's at this point where we need to have detailed conversation about what it is that we want. And this is too much land to
|
01:44:12
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vest. Remember the conversation we had just a minute ago about vesting about he has, you know, his math is vested and, and all of
|
01:44:19
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that. It is way too early and way too vague to do that.
|
01:44:26
|
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|
But we all know why we're here.
|
01:44:35
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|
We're here because of a change of leadership. We're here because of that today.
|
01:44:37
|
|
|
Please don't look at me like you don't know that.
|
01:44:42
|
|
|
And we have a right you talk about us speaking. The city has spoken in a landslide. We have two new council members that are
|
01:44:45
|
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|
taking part in in our city swearing in on January the 2nd.
|
01:44:52
|
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And what we should be doing now is celebrating our outgoing council members and briefing our incoming council members and getting
|
01:45:00
|
|
|
ready for the 3rd of December, 3rd of January. Nothing of this significance should be introduced to you on Monday, voted on on
|
01:45:07
|
|
|
Wednesday, and given to the City Council the same night. Not even two weeks different, are you? Let's just call it man. Let's just
|
01:45:15
|
|
|
call it. Everyone of you that votes on this is irresponsible and you are putting your thumbprint.
|
01:45:22
|
|
|
What is going on here that everybody knows? You know it. If you got this information Monday, you know why this is being rushed
|
01:45:30
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through.
|
01:45:33
|
|
|
Once again, I'll make a comment. Please no clapping. Let's try to keep it quiet in here.
|
01:45:40
|
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|
A public hearing. This is a public hearing. We're trying to listen to people. If you want to clap, you can go outside and clap.
|
01:45:48
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|
And then second, again, this is not new. We didn't learn about this on Monday.
|
01:45:55
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|
We've known about, we've known about the zoning for a long time, so.
|
01:45:59
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|
The things that we are discussing tonight are things we already knew. Thank you. Go ahead. I don't think anybody is going to
|
01:46:04
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|
debate that the master plan exists and what was there. But to comment on the connection to the previous developers, What brought
|
01:46:11
|
|
|
me up, and just to enlighten you on our perspective, which might be a different perspective than yours, is that the connection
|
01:46:17
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|
with the developer who has vested rights from 12 years ago is now a new developer asking for vested rights.
|
01:46:23
|
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|
And we can acknowledge in this room that change has happened in the last 12 years. So if we vest those rights, despite it being
|
01:46:30
|
|
|
the best interest right now, that something changes in 12 years, don't we as a city want to have the right to say it's not in our
|
01:46:35
|
|
|
best interest?
|
01:46:40
|
|
|
We're gonna change the zoning.
|
01:46:45
|
|
|
So, so the difference between the zoning now, as far as I understand and hopefully you can clarify Morgan, is that with vested
|
01:46:49
|
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|
rights, it can't change. The city can't initiate the domain change. And before it's invested, the city could initiate the change.
|
01:46:56
|
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|
But if it's vested, then the developer has to come forward and to make the change. Is that correct? OK.
|
01:47:04
|
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|
So so it's protecting the developer when they go out to find businesses.
|
01:47:13
|
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|
That those businesses know that the drugs not going to be pulled out from underneath them, that they can come in and know that
|
01:47:19
|
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|
that's going to be zoned. Instead of like putting forward lots of money to make a plan to draw up architectural plans and things
|
01:47:25
|
|
|
like that. Just for the city to come in and be like, actually, you know what? We want to change this to something else. And they
|
01:47:31
|
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|
wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars.
|
01:47:37
|
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|
So that that's the reason for vesting and yeah.
|
01:47:44
|
|
|
Hi, Sarah Cameron resident.
|
01:47:54
|
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|
So I'm extremely new to all of this stuff.
|
01:47:57
|
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|
So first of all, I wonder if you could clarify land donation. I don't understand exactly what that is, so that would be helpful.
|
01:48:02
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|
Secondly, does this have to be decided tonight? We're talking 3 weeks.
|
01:48:08
|
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|
Just three weeks. But but also, Grace, you brought up something last week that I I drive on Geneva Road and you have the railroad
|
01:48:14
|
|
|
station. I mean the railroad, yeah, along Geneva Rd. So, so when I see all of this, I think you have, you have the front runner
|
01:48:22
|
|
|
station, you have the lake. We're still landlocked and we have the railroad that goes through that. So. So that's another concern
|
01:48:29
|
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|
too. And you brought that up. That could be what, five years?
|
01:48:36
|
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|
Before they actually change the railroad tracks. Yeah. So there's this, there's a lot of things and I don't know that this really
|
01:48:44
|
|
|
has to be decided right now. I feel like it could be shelved for a few weeks and give us time to think about it. And real quick
|
01:48:51
|
|
|
question for you, Sarah, is what are some things in the FOI or the RC that that you don't want to see in in this? Not necessarily
|
01:48:58
|
|
|
anything. OK, so.
|
01:49:05
|
|
|
Like I said, I don't stay a lot usually because I'm learning, learning, learning and I'm listening.
|
01:49:12
|
|
|
As much as I can. So that's my main question with this is there's a lot of people I know that there are a lot of people in
|
01:49:18
|
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|
Vineyard that are against any kind of density or high density specifically. And if this zoning is vested, that's basically saying
|
01:49:26
|
|
|
that none of this can be or will be that, but it was having all of these other allowed uses and I'm I'm curious why people.
|
01:49:34
|
|
|
Are against the FOI or the RC zoning.
|
01:49:44
|
|
|
In this area at all, I think it's mostly it just feels.
|
01:49:49
|
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It feels like during December, everybody's thinking about the holidays, everybody's. So if to us, it feels like this is being
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01:49:53
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pushed through and being rushed because they know a change of color is coming and we just want more time. Not that there's
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01:50:00
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anything wrong or that we're specifically against any of this. We just want to have time to actually.
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01:50:07
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No, right. Yeah, sure. That's that's all.
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01:50:15
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Thanks, Sarah.
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01:50:20
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Yeah, yeah. I'll, I'll get to those questions.
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01:50:22
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Sure. Yeah, I, I just.
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01:50:28
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I just want to further clarify, we are not an elected body, We are not political.
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01:50:33
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We are here to look at zoning and get your feedback on what's being presented so that we can better make.
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01:50:40
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A decision as a Planning Commission and make our recommendation to City Council.
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01:50:50
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Which is in theory impactful.
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01:50:56
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But but we we. This is not a good place for declaration of allegiances.
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01:51:01
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And this is not an appropriate place for, I don't know, a political movement. This is a discussion and I'm happy to hear it,
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01:51:10
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especially if it's pertaining to the agenda.
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01:51:16
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But outside of that is highly inappropriate. Thank you. Go ahead.
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01:51:24
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My question would be why couldn't we make these decisions in smaller proposals, right? If we've got somebody who is interested,
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01:51:31
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why couldn't we vest it once we know the interested party that way if it was something that we weren't interested in, you know, or
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01:51:37
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allowing in his own and then they generally know those things are most likely going to be allowed, right. So come in, talk to my
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01:51:43
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hypothetically.
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01:51:48
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Bring it here, vest it, and then it doesn't cost millions of dollars to say I'm interested in something.
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01:51:55
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Thanks, Christy.
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01:52:02
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I just wanted to end real quick.
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01:52:04
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You didn't go on the record real quick. When did you hear about it?
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01:52:08
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I did not speak to things on my agenda. Thank you. I am not going to give comment about something not on my agenda. So yeah, it's
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01:52:15
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OK if you don't want to go on record.
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01:52:22
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OK. Yeah. Thank you. Right off the bat.
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01:52:31
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When the election started, I was.
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01:52:35
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Attacked. You can call it that for my grandfather, my great uncle Grant and Norm for vesting rights in Utah City, right? He
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01:52:38
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envisioned Utah City.
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01:52:44
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Granted that for many, many years, right? So you can't ask Grant.
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01:52:50
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Yeah, he didn't. He bested those right years earlier, right. You guys are being asked about testing something that you don't even
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01:52:54
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know what is up there. Just vest right vested in those current things.
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01:53:00
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And take the flexibility away from current City Council from from future city council's to vest it.
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01:53:07
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That flexibility is what the councils need in the future to review it.
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01:53:15
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Allowing us to at the beginning of the year, go and meet with the developer and understand what those are, what those needs are
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01:53:20
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and that flexibility to adjust. It might go into February, March, understand what it is and and maybe lock it in. But one of the
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01:53:27
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worst things you can't you can do to a council is get rid of that flexibility.
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01:53:33
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And we're talking about a couple of weeks.
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01:53:41
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Right. And I remember those attacks coming in from from the developers side, right or whoever on their side coming in and saying
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01:53:43
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your grandfather, he's invested. These are vested. These are vested and obviously the people wanted to be heard and wanted to
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01:53:50
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adjust it, but those those vested rights were taken. So if you guys vest these.
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01:53:56
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Have not allowed the the people.
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01:54:03
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For us to take two to three months for us to listen to what those are, right? You're also talking about a Latino community that
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01:54:06
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doesn't speak Spanish. So Monday this comes out. We can't translate these things. You've got disability, disabled people that
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01:54:12
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can't come to these meetings and different things. It's only been a couple of days, right? So let's allow people and say, hey, end
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01:54:18
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of February, end of March, let's hear these things.
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01:54:24
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And allow that flexibility investing this, that's what we're asking for.
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01:54:31
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It's not on the agenda. Hi, David, Lorraine resident.
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01:54:38
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First of all, I want to say thank you to the Council Commission for your patience listening to all this and here all and Bryce,
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01:54:45
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thank you for your patience and handling all this and the way in the education efforts. Thank you.
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01:54:51
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I also wanted to.
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01:54:58
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Talk about these things I want to talk about separately because there are separate issues.
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01:55:01
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We have the issues of Port Authority and so forth until next week. We have issues about best about vesting riots and about
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01:55:06
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donations and about adding different uses to land uses that are already, you know, laid out there. You know, there's been nothing
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01:55:14
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in the presentations tonight in the three the three matters we've been hearing that that it's.
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01:55:22
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Objectionable. They're all good. I mean they're, they're all, all appropriate. It seems to me the the issue as I see is one of
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01:55:31
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moment of optics. We're here at the end of the year and we are a normal process. We'll have a hearing here and then the the the
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01:55:39
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Commission would would act on it and send their recommendation on the City Council which would deal with it.
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01:55:46
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In a week to three weeks or so from this time and when they when they get it on their agenda, normally that process takes like a
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01:55:54
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month or so.
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01:55:58
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And and it's and, but we're seeing now we have a joint session put together just specifically.
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01:56:02
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So that whatever action you take can be passed into the Council or they can take immediate action upon it.
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01:56:09
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And so whether or not there's a good thing or not, the optics already poor, especially in the right now you're in a period of of
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01:56:14
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transition. So this is not a criticism of the Commission, but the criticism for the council property, you see council perhaps, and
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01:56:23
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perhaps the mayor and enforcing this to take, you know, to happen on this time scale. It it just seems to be, it looks improper.
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01:56:31
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Whether it is or not, I can't say. There's enough time to figure it out.
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01:56:39
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But all the issues tonight seem reasonable.
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01:56:44
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And I'm glad that the council will hear, hear them and work on them. I would, I would hope that.
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01:56:47
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That's why the Commission will build that rule on this night, but then and then pass on the recommendations. I hope the Council
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01:56:55
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then would take time to say as well, instead of just immediately acting upon them.
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01:57:00
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So that's, that's my, that's the problem. I think that most of us here are upset because we've, you know, we're seeing these
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01:57:06
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things and we see a relationship between the area that we're talking about tonight and the area we'll be talking about next week.
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01:57:12
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And we see a strong linkage there. Whether or not one exists, I don't know, but nonetheless, it's very it appears that way. And so
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01:57:19
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the very appearance has caused this problem.
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01:57:25
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And so by rushing the process, by trying to compress it where it didn't need to be compressed.
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01:57:31
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It kind of created this little problem of optics.
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01:57:37
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So.
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01:57:40
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Thank you for your patience. Thank you as you consider this and I hope that the Council will continue this on their behalf so they
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01:57:42
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can deal with it in in due time. Thank you. Thanks, David.
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01:57:49
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Any other comments?
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01:57:58
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Seeing as there are no do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I move to close public hearing. I have a second. Second all
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01:58:04
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in favor. Aye, All right.
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01:58:08
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Moving into our regular session.
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01:58:14
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Do we want to take a minute and.
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01:58:22
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Can we go to the bathroom? Yeah. We're going to take a we're going to take a 3 minute break right now so people can go and use the
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01:58:25
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bath. Oh.
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01:58:27
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I'll I'll get back to it when we come back after the 3 minute break.
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01:58:32
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We're crawling.
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01:58:37
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About 30 more seconds and we'll get going.
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01:58:40
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That's one.
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01:58:51
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All right. So actually before we move into the regular session, there were a couple of questions. Thank you. Thank you, Darian
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01:59:11
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Christy for pointing that out to me.
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01:59:14
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There were a couple of questions that you guys had from the public hearings and I'll ask those right now.
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01:59:19
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For just a couple of questions, what exactly is an Mai appraisal?
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01:59:25
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Yeah, yeah.
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01:59:30
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And that's Jamie, if you.
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01:59:36
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Sheets the looks and brains of our operation. So he usually does this, but I'll try to handle this best I can so.
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01:59:42
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An appraisal appraisal from a, from a, from a firm that has a license to do appraisals. And the reason for that is not on your
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01:59:48
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end. It's actually on our end. When we donate property to the city like we're planning on doing in this instance, which we don't
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01:59:54
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have to do by the way, we don't we don't have to donate right of way. This is about.
|
02:00:00
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You know, I can't remember the exact acreage, but it's I want it's plus it's above 10 acres that we just be donating to the city
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02:00:06
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here for the Mill Road right away. We donated the southern portion about a year and a half ago as well. And the 1600 N right away.
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02:00:14
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We also donated for us the donation. Can't remember Sarah here. Maybe she stepped out. She was the one that asked.
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02:00:22
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But it's just the donation is just literally us taking something and donating it to the city and the city saying yes, we accept
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02:00:30
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this and we want this.
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02:00:33
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Obviously you can't donate the property someone who to someone who doesn't want it or accept it. So we sign an agreement saying
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02:00:37
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we, we will donate this property to you and you sign the agreement saying we want to accept this property. And then I think,
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02:00:43
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sorry, also asked a question about maintenance of the road, I believe, correct. So, so Mill Rd. is the city road. It's always been
|
02:00:49
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contemplated to be a city road just like the ones of the South. So we'll donate it.
|
02:00:55
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And the city can will maintain it long term that snow removal, etcetera, when it needs a slurry seal the city, the city will do
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02:01:03
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that in the future.
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02:01:06
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Club.
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02:02:10
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Sam's Club or a Costco or et cetera, and some of these users.
|
02:02:13
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Like this area, but they won't negotiate with us. And there are other places where some of those warehouse clubs are looking as
|
02:02:20
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hospitals that are wanting to be here but they don't want to come. If we came in here with five acres and said can we zone a
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02:02:26
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hospital right here, invest that and you guys would all shake your head and say absolutely, can we invest 5 acres right here and
|
02:02:32
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do a warehouse phone and everyone shakes their head. Those groups won't continue to negotiate with us.
|
02:02:37
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If it's not master planned around them with similar uses, a hospital doesn't want to come in here and know that next door there
|
02:02:44
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could be possibly potentially next to a meat farm. So having an area that says, okay, this whole area here can be medical use
|
02:02:50
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because you like to cluster around each other, a warehouse use a warehouse club would like to come here and be around other retail
|
02:02:57
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users, around office users, etcetera. So so there will be and I don't.
|
02:03:04
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I agree with the optics of coming in here and trying, which was an option.
|
02:03:11
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Had already been plant studying that had been had been to vineyard days and Sasaki has been working on a big plan for the last six
|
02:03:16
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months and it was planned, if you remember to be voted on around this time had nothing to do with election. It was just how that
|
02:03:23
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plan worked out. We said let's press pause on that because trying to get that plan through right now seemed inappropriate and
|
02:03:29
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|
rushed. That discussion will continue with the Planning Commission and City Council next year.
|
02:03:36
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Thank you.
|
02:03:45
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|
All right. Yeah. And just to clarify, neat farms are not allowed in any of the zoning in in vineyards. So currently, currently,
|
02:03:46
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|
yeah.
|
02:03:51
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There's a big demand out there.
|
02:03:59
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So this is a oh, sorry. I'll let you just see if they're looking through my questions real quick.
|
02:04:01
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In Portland.
|
02:04:09
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OK.
|
02:04:14
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It's, it's just like a doctor's, an MDA lawyer's a JDMAI is the when you get an appraisal, they're recognized as licensed to do
|
02:04:18
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the work. So when they take the land they're donating to the IRS and say it's worth X, they have to have an appraisal by a
|
02:04:24
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certified appraisal.
|
02:04:30
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Says it's worth X and that's what it means. It has no relationship at all that the city saying.
|
02:04:37
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We're willing to accept this property. We it's going to be a Rd.
|
02:04:43
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|
Cool, great. All right, moving on to the regular session.
|
02:04:49
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|
So right now, we'll move into an open session. This is the time to for people to make public comments limited to three minutes.
|
02:04:54
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And Tay has her timer for 3 minutes. And these are for comments on things that are not on the agenda. If you want to make a
|
02:05:02
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|
comment, limit it to three minutes and we'll go from there. Make sure you state your name and which neighborhood you're from.
|
02:05:10
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And it's open right now for.
|
02:05:19
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All right, seeing as there no comments for the open session, we'll move into consent items for the PC minutes. The only thing that
|
02:05:24
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|
|
I noticed was my name was spelled wrong on on one of them. So just so we got that, we're covered on that. And then do I have a
|
02:05:30
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|
motion to approve the consent items?
|
02:05:36
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|
Yeah, I move to approve the consent items as presented with the the change of braces name. All right, do I have a second, second
|
02:05:43
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|
|
all in favor? Aye. All right, moving on to business item 5.1, discussion and action for the zoning text amendment, medical and
|
02:05:49
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commercial uses.
|
02:05:54
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|
So this is something that we just discussed that we just had a public hearing for. Is there any other questions from the
|
02:06:00
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|
Commission? I just, I had the one thing that we wanted you to look at a little closer. It was the heliport slash Billy port. Would
|
02:06:05
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you like to see? It's not going.
|
02:06:11
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I'm sorry.
|
02:06:17
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All right, I'll try to talk loud. OK. So the heliport report as a conditional use or a thank you for a permitted use. And so that
|
02:06:29
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that was one that was one of those questions is it's kind of delayed that's I think it's better just in.
|
02:06:37
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All right, I'll just, I'll just try to talk loud.
|
02:06:47
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So a discussion as to whether that would be a permitted use or a conditional use. The conditional use gets gives you kind of
|
02:06:50
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another layer where you may add a few conditions you feel like that might be an appropriate one, but also a permanent use could
|
02:06:58
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work as well if you do have a lot of land there. You're not right up against residential. The other thing as well, and I, Jamie,
|
02:07:05
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|
|
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a heliport or very port both require another layer of regulation to the.
|
02:07:12
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And so and that, that's another one that's uses, that's not just the city review.
|
02:07:20
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So.
|
02:07:26
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Any comments from the Commission? Personally, I don't have any preference. I mean, the helicopters aren't flying out a time and if
|
02:07:27
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they are then they're flying out for a good purpose. So I don't have any.
|
02:07:32
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|
OK. Is there anything else? Yeah. Then in that case then I would suggest a permitted use would be appropriate and I would just
|
02:07:38
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|
have that in your motion. OK. Would it, would it be like teleport specifically designated for hospital use or also for
|
02:07:43
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|
recreational?
|
02:07:49
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|
So in this Caribbean unemployment zone, you, you might get someone who is so it's mainly going to be for, for a hospital use, but
|
02:07:55
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|
potentially you could get for, for deliveries with a brew report there. That's, that's where a lot of technology is doing has been
|
02:08:03
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|
able to get people kind of the same day their, their medication. And so that most likely would be associated as well. But if you
|
02:08:10
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|
get like a, a large, you know, headquarters or some sort of manufacturer of that, I want to, to, to ship goods as well.
|
02:08:17
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|
Incorporate a report. I mean potentially you get someone that wants to have a heliport on top of their building. I mean we haven't
|
02:08:25
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|
seen that here, but you might see that in downtown Salt Lake. There might be something like that but right so potentially a
|
02:08:31
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|
company could come in like Amazon, let's say and they wanna do drone deliveries and.
|
02:08:37
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|
It would be a permitted use if we allow it.
|
02:08:44
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|
Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're like I said, they'd still go through the site plan process and then that's where you could ask for,
|
02:08:48
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|
you know, FAA.
|
02:08:51
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Approvals and you'd be able to check it there. Official use though would allow you to if you felt that there could be an impact.
|
02:08:58
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|
You know to to like surrounding properties. Typically conditional uses are when you're putting something adjacent to residential
|
02:09:07
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|
|
that that's most of the time we're all see conditions from a conditional use for the Planning Commission will I'm wondering if
|
02:09:13
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that's something we could write in there because it it.
|
02:09:18
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The the RC at the South that bumps up next to the forge, which is going to be residential.
|
02:09:24
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And so if there's a way that we can like.
|
02:09:31
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Write it into.
|
02:09:35
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|
For the RC that it needs to be so far away from the residential areas that would that would be my preference. I mean, also on the
|
02:09:37
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|
other side of the track just from the Vineyard downtown, the Utah City stuff. So maybe we should just make it a conditional. You
|
02:09:44
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could just make a conditional.
|
02:09:50
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Within, if it's within 500 feet of a of a residential use, it's got through a conditional use permit or you can just say
|
02:09:56
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|
conditional use. I mean really the from a timing standpoint it's about the same.
|
02:10:03
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|
Because they would go to the Planning Commission would be a dual application site plan and occasional use and that would allow you
|
02:10:10
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to assign some conditions to help.
|
02:10:13
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|
Mitigate any detriments that the use may have. Either way, sure, I just want to like.
|
02:10:19
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Mitigate potential of a developer coming in and saying we want we want the helicopter, may we please have conditional use permit?
|
02:10:26
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|
It would be nice if that wasn't an option too close to residential so they have to meet certain conditions that we would come.
|
02:10:37
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|
So noise ordinance and the like.
|
02:10:49
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|
Yeah, yeah, we have, we have code that kind of outlines within our conditional use permit code where you can assign conditions.
|
02:10:53
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And so something like that I would get with Jamie and we, we would look at the the site and say, okay, what potentially are the
|
02:11:00
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|
detriments and then what are some lawful conditions because I mean it doesn't mean you can just say or put anything on it, but you
|
02:11:06
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|
have to still follow kind of the guidelines within our conditional use permit ordinance.
|
02:11:12
|
|
|
That's right. OK, thank you. So I think either way it would work. One thing you may do is provide a carve out for for hospitals,
|
02:11:19
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hospitals or a permanent use hospital. Heliports typically are.
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02:11:25
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Ancillary used to to a hospital and they go through all the all the regulations where you may get something that is going to have
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02:11:32
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an impact could be just like a commercial business where it's someone who wants to put like a, you know, a helipad on top of their
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02:11:38
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building. And that's something we do in a future meeting.
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02:11:44
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You can make a recommendation to.
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02:11:51
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If we were to make it a conditional use, the conditions would be, was that something that would come through? The Planning
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02:11:55
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Commission has been making those, Yeah, yeah. So if it was conditional use, they would apply for conditional use permit, they
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02:12:01
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would dual site plan conditional use. They do that at the same time and then you'd be able to sign conditions, OK.
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02:12:06
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Do I have a motion?
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02:12:13
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Does anybody feel strongly either way or?
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02:12:15
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I can move. Can I express from reservation first?
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02:12:23
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Mean this doesn't necessarily dictate the way I'm going to vote, but I'm still I'm very uncomfortable with I know kids are
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02:12:28
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separate. Inland Port Authority is separate. I try to get some clarification between the meeting. But when we upzone a property,
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02:12:34
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we're going to increase tax revenue that could come from that property. Like I was first lesson I learned on the on the Commission
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02:12:40
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is we need tax revenue coming in and I I still and then and then we're going to vest rights.
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02:12:46
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And then there's a PID which you know in principle is really good and then an inland Port Authority is entirely separate and and
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02:12:52
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it all impacts tax revenue that could come from it and it could be good or it could be bad. And I've read all the agreements, I
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02:12:58
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read all the laws last night. I am still slightly uncomfortable in planning of how we planning for the tax revenue because I don't
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02:13:04
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know what's envisioned at the end.
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02:13:11
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And that that that's my reservation here is this, this is new. There's real tax impacts here.
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02:13:17
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And it doesn't mean I'm gonna vote one way or another, but I'm, I wish there's a little more info of what is the vision here
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02:13:24
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that's coming so that we understood how is this gonna be built out? How is this gonna support the infrastructure? Obviously it
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02:13:30
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needs to be built out. It needs to be built out downtown. It needs to be built out in this area. You need the up zoning to bring
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02:13:37
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the businesses in. But it's it's not good planning if we, we don't, you know, have all the info together.
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02:13:43
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I don't know if anybody could make some comments on the big picture strategy.
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02:13:52
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Yeah. I mean, if you want to talk about your big picture shed, I would just say from from a zoning standpoint, a lot of times you
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02:13:56
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you the zoning get gets put in place then that that gives you that the predictability that you're then able to do the master
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02:14:03
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planning because a lot of it's going to be based off of what you know who, who you can attract there. And that's that's where the
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02:14:09
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zoning is, is really critical. But if you want to provide higher vision stuff that's.
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02:14:15
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Pete Evans, again with the developers. So all of those things could happen on the same piece of property, but they're all
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02:14:25
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independent and they're mutually exclusive.
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02:14:30
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So the zoning doesn't have anything to do with a PID or the inland port. So the ability, the designation of what you can do on the
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02:14:36
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property is the zoning that gives you the guidelines of what has to happen to develop the property.
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02:14:45
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But but that's independent of and not.
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02:14:55
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Not related to a PID or the Inland Port Authority.
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02:14:59
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So if if up zoning was was done, I'm all for the up zoning. I think these are great facilities.
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02:15:02
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But then vesting their rights immediately, you know, there's a little concern they're expressed around that because even compared
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02:15:09
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to downtown, we're very early in the project there. But we'd be vesting these new rights that we'd upload tonight so that so that
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02:15:15
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those two are connected at least even taking pit in and then pour it out. So what is your view as if you do UPSTONE tonight?
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02:15:22
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But you don't invest is that enough to still because it I mean, it's in the zoning hospitals get billed and other stuff all the
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02:15:29
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time with without a master plan. Is that enough to to start those conversations and then.
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02:15:35
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Have a next step in the process to best rights. Yeah. So the short answer is is no. The the I think that they ought to be vested
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02:15:41
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immediately. And then the reason is when you when you talk to tenants who want to be here, their first question is do you have
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02:15:48
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vested development rights? So if the answer is no.
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02:15:55
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I mean, they have a very short window of when they're looking on their site selection, right? So.
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02:16:03
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And this takes a very, very long period of time to start and end these discussions. And so the more clarity that you can give and
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02:16:10
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certainty that you can give, the more likely you are to be able to develop it with the tenant that you want.
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02:16:17
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Ouch. Oh, not sure.
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02:16:26
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Macwood Bridge is some landowner in there. The the reason why the vestige in the rights is really important. So say you have the
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02:16:34
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warehouse club that wants to come to your site. We can talk to that warehouse club and they may look at our site, but they want to
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02:16:40
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know that they're going into a shopping center where other Co tenants are also going to exist and they'll look for those Co tenant
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02:16:47
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rights and make sure that's all in place. And so this is just the beginning. This is really pretty normal.
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02:16:53
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We just kind of a baby step forward of starting that shopping center and starting those developments.
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02:17:59
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If I can ask a couple more questions. So I mean, I, I am very inclined to even I think we should upstone and I see the value. You
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02:18:05
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cannot build a master plan without vested rights, right? Especially the quality of even downtown. You could not do something like
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02:18:11
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that to build something master plan without vested right. So they are they are important and and it's it's much better than doing
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02:18:17
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zoning by contract or things like that, but.
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02:18:23
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I am also very empathetic to to the voices here and I think everybody would end up supporting.
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02:18:30
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And this is if we want any chance of being ready by, you know, May or ICSP. And if you want to continue with in good faith with a
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02:19:36
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lot of these retailers and whatnot that we're talking to that we need to show them that we're making progress and show them that
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02:19:42
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there's things that are happening on our side too, not just the ways and and then they go look somewhere else essentially. So I
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02:19:47
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don't know. Yeah, the only thing, the only thing that I would add to that is that I we're sympathetic and understand, like David
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02:19:52
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said, the optics as well.
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02:19:58
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Our our intention with.
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02:20:04
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Not changing any of the zoning, not changing any of the land use designations, you know, not changing any of the boundary lines of
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02:20:07
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what was what on the general plan or even the the existing zoning plan was to be the opposite, to be very non controversial and
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02:20:14
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say this is a very this has been in place for years and years and years. So this shouldn't be there shouldn't be a controversial
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02:20:21
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approval. And it gives us a baseline to to continue to talk to these people while we work with for something.
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02:20:29
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Master plan more detailed master plan in the future.
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02:20:37
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Thanks, Pete. Thank you. Any other questions, Chris? No, no.
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02:20:43
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Did anybody have any questions on whether they would like to make a motion and have the permitted use for the helipad?
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02:20:48
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For a conditional use for the Health app.
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02:20:56
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As a helipad and verdiport. Very port and helipad.
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02:20:59
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Yeah.
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02:21:04
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I move to recommend approval of ordinance 2023-30 Medical and commercial zoning use to City Council with.
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02:21:07
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Like the helipad and vertiport.
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02:21:16
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As conditional use.
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02:21:23
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Drive a second.
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02:21:26
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I second, second, all right, all in favor and this will need to be.
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02:21:34
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Okay, Chris, I.
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02:21:41
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Brad I I Tay aye grid, right?
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02:21:45
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Passes moving on to item.
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02:21:51
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5.2 at the Homestead Pod One live work development agreement.
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02:21:57
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So again, we just talked about this and had discussions on this.
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02:22:02
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Were there things that anybody wanted to see changed? Are there things that you would like more clarification on?
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02:22:08
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Did we? You had mentioned the parking management.
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02:22:16
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Manage that a bit more to make sure that that parking was gonna work. And if it's not gonna work, he needs to put more parking. Is
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02:22:49
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there something you could do if you wanted to address that is to ask for and if there is a specific title in the scene, if you're
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02:22:56
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in here and let me know, But a parking safety study by a, by a certified engineer, that's something that you could have submitted.
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02:23:04
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What we received from Gilson Engineering was more of a preliminary kind of advisory type type.
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02:23:11
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As, as he has kind of been experiencing it, but if you wanted an engineer to analyze the street parking and the safety and, and
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02:23:19
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provide some recommendations, that's something that that you could put in, in the development agreement.
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02:23:27
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That, you know, that at least you would have it kind of scoped down a little further. I mean, how, how confident is community
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02:23:37
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development that there's not going to be any issues with this and and that this model of parking is going to work? Yeah, I mean,
|
02:23:44
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there, I mean, nothing is is, you know, free, free of, of issues. So I don't want to say it'd be 100%. I mean, even without what
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02:23:51
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I'm saying, what we would require is for engineer drawings that are done by professionals with your certificates.
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02:23:59
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Review the parking and just the I guess the parking and parking management. Yeah, I want to make sure I understand your concern
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02:24:36
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before we kind of target it with language. Are you concerned about safety as it relates to the on street parking or are you?
|
02:24:44
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Also capacity to have all the uses through there between people running, people walking, people stopping on the north side to
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02:24:54
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access those front doors. So people that will be coming in and out. So when you say capacity, you're not talking about the
|
02:25:01
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quantity of parking stalls relative to the development, you're talking about how it relates to.
|
02:25:08
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Other transportation modes in that area.
|
02:25:17
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OK. And the impact it may have of I mean, I'm still imagining you get there on a Saturday morning, you have people pulling in and
|
02:25:21
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out, you're going to have people driving by, they're going to be leaving soccer games. Like I, I can see scenarios where there's
|
02:25:28
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just a lot of just even standstill. So I think we're talking about two things. One.
|
02:25:35
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Visibility standards and the engineering standards that relate to where the parking is located and where.
|
02:25:43
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Pedestrian movements occur. And then I think the other thing you're talking about is more.
|
02:25:48
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Site circulation and how that relates to adjacent uses. And this is me just trying to use planner and engineering speak for what
|
02:25:55
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we're trying to achieve. And I guess I'm, I'm going to look to the developer and just see is, is that an acceptable condition at
|
02:26:03
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the site plan that we look at those two things, We'll look at circulation and then we'll look at the orientation of that parking.
|
02:26:12
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You can, you can do some things with that that can help with pedestrian sight lines like you can, if you, if you have to have
|
02:26:21
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parking their entrance at the exits, you can restrict that parking to compact vehicles and not, you know, then you don't have.
|
02:26:28
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Big trucks where if the kids coming out, you don't see them until they're in the roadway.
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02:26:36
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You can adjust, you know, distances, turn movements, that kind of thing.
|
02:26:43
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Jamie, could you maybe while we're having discussion, maybe kind of help us with some language, Appreciate that. Something,
|
02:26:48
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|
something I kind of have an issue with is for these 56 units that have storefronts like having their parking on the street. I'm
|
02:26:54
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totally fine with that. And having that kind of shared parking where the city owns part of it and the developer owns part of it,
|
02:27:00
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I'm fine with. I do have.
|
02:27:07
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Some issues with the that same parking, the street parking where it's partially done by the city and partially owned by the
|
02:27:14
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developer.
|
02:27:17
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Being for residential use, where I think that it should be specifically for the business use, if there is a possibility to have
|
02:27:20
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off street parking for that kind of use, I would be more in favor of that. Or even just getting it out of the public right of way,
|
02:27:29
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I'd be more in favor of that. And then the other thing.
|
02:27:37
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Was that having a condition having?
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02:27:47
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A limit as to how many.
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02:27:51
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Non owner.
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02:27:54
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Employees are on site, I think is important. I don't know the exact number that would be good, but I think that this might be good
|
02:27:56
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for you for that number of employees and stuff. Do you have any okay.
|
02:28:03
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Because you do have a limitation on the occupancy for.
|
02:28:13
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For three.
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02:28:17
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Yeah, sorry, Mike.
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02:28:18
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I mean, there's three employees.
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02:28:23
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Offside employees, I'd probably hold it too. OK.
|
02:28:26
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I mean, my parking issues are more important to me than they are to the city. Yeah, because if I can't park my residence, I'm
|
02:28:30
|
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going to be in trouble. And it's an economic situation for me. So I'd probably be OK to limit it to two employees, period. OK.
|
02:28:39
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And yeah, I've made it clear to offside employees like.
|
02:28:49
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In regards to the parking question.
|
02:28:56
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I'd have to really think about how the site lays out whether or not I can shove the units around and get parking off the street.
|
02:29:00
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|
Roughly this was about 300 to $400,000 to rebuild that road, and I've already built it once and gave it to the city and I'm not
|
02:29:10
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too excited about rebuilding it again.
|
02:29:16
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But we could certainly look at some areas.
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02:29:24
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Whether or not I can get parking in some of the off sites, we've not. And I know somebody here said that they built them before.
|
02:29:28
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I'm not aware of anything like this in Utah where you have live work units, but I'm not aware of any development who is restricted
|
02:29:36
|
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the work environment to the residential environment.
|
02:29:44
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You know, our whole deal was is we didn't want to have issues between.
|
02:29:54
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Commercial user on the main floor and the residents above or vice versa. Yeah, So in our CC and ours that will be controlled by
|
02:29:59
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the HOA, the the licensing that we've talked about with the city.
|
02:30:06
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|
Is never have an occasion where who's ever running that operation on the main floor is not the residence.
|
02:30:14
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Yeah. So that would be detrimental to what we're trying to create over there.
|
02:30:21
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and something that I did appreciate with this, with the parking on the street and how narrow the street is,
|
02:30:28
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it will slow things down. Like if you're trying to get through there quick, it's gonna make it harder for sure. Because with the
|
02:30:34
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parking on the street and with it being that narrow, it's gonna be hard to drive fast, which is a bonus for anybody that's
|
02:30:41
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walking. Because if people are afraid that they're gonna hit another car or the.
|
02:30:47
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Afraid that the road is narrow so they have to pay lots of attention. They're going to be a lot more likely to see pedestrians.
|
02:30:55
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And having those flashers on both of the crosswalks, I think those are all really good things. And on top of that, having the
|
02:31:01
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|
trail that goes along the whole north side that wraps around going South and NI think will all be benefits for pedestrians trying
|
02:31:06
|
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|
to go through this area. And a slower speed on this road helps everybody. It helps me as a developer, helps the residents, it
|
02:31:12
|
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|
helps.
|
02:31:18
|
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|
Contractors, deliveries, it helps everybody if we can solve that. Traffic down. Yeah, and I mean people, people speed, but I mean,
|
02:31:25
|
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|
people can speed through a residential neighborhood where the speed limit is 25 and they shouldn't go.
|
02:31:31
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|
They shouldn't go faster than that and it's super dangerous because kids are playing in the road. People just need to obey the
|
02:31:38
|
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line. We need to do as much as we can to.
|
02:31:43
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|
To make it so that it's uncomfortable to drive faster than that. And I think that by having parking on the road and by having a
|
02:31:50
|
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|
narrow Rd. makes it uncomfortable to drive at faster speeds. So.
|
02:31:55
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|
OK, OK, Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Can I, can I suggest language that you might include in your motion to recommend Section 2 of the
|
02:32:03
|
|
|
agreement is where it talks about the parking requirements. And So what I would propose is that you insert a sentence that says.
|
02:32:10
|
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|
The site plan for the project shall be informed by analysis performed by a qualified transportation engineer of parking locations,
|
02:32:18
|
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|
orientation and site circulation relative to pedestrian and bicycle movement on adjacent St. sidewalks and trails.
|
02:32:26
|
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|
Does that accomplish what you're what you're after?
|
02:32:36
|
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|
Then he can look at that analysis, modify the site, plan on the parking accordingly. I think there are some softer things you can
|
02:32:40
|
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|
do that may not reduce the number of stalls, but.
|
02:32:45
|
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|
Place certain types of vehicles in certain locations and orientations that will help with visibility and other things. OK. And
|
02:32:51
|
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|
then also the condition for a maximum of two off site employees.
|
02:32:58
|
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|
I'm good with that. Yeah, OK.
|
02:33:07
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|
Do I have a motion?
|
02:33:10
|
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|
I can move. I might need a little bit help with the wording. You can just say as stated. As stated. OK, I move to recommend
|
02:33:19
|
|
|
approval of resolution 2023-30 Homesteads POD 1050 God.
|
02:33:26
|
|
|
2023 Dash 50 Homesteads Pod One Live Work Units Development agreement to the City Council as stated with the conditions as stated.
|
02:33:35
|
|
|
Second, all in favor, this is Rocco.
|
02:33:48
|
|
|
En All right, that moves forward. Moving on to Item 5.3, Discussion in action for the East Geneva Land Donation and Development
|
02:33:54
|
|
|
Agreement Resolution 2023, Dash 51.
|
02:33:59
|
|
|
Again, this is something that we talked about at length. Were there any other?
|
02:34:05
|
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|
Comments or questions from the Commission or.
|
02:34:10
|
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|
Is there any way to vote on this resolution?
|
02:34:15
|
|
|
In next week's meeting when we just learned a little bit more about what's coming with the future of that area possibly.
|
02:34:20
|
|
|
On the 13th, so it would be a question of could we coordinate that with the Council to learn more and then vote on the resolution
|
02:34:28
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|
or to me, my understanding is this.
|
02:34:32
|
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|
We're not actually changing anything, we're just offering guarantees on the land as ourselves.
|
02:34:38
|
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|
Sure.
|
02:34:45
|
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|
And you need to vest the rights to do the master planning. But I mean, I mean say it and I'm going to mention it because it's out
|
02:34:48
|
|
|
there. Say an inland port does come, you know, as it's written in what was on the Vineyard website. You know, there's what is it
|
02:34:54
|
|
|
75% of the revenue tax revenue would stay locally and then 25% goes out and it gets distributed.
|
02:35:01
|
|
|
To, you know, to the city, to the Alpine School District, there's an impact on taxes and that's part of the general plan. I just
|
02:35:08
|
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|
don't know how we can make decisions for that long term, invest those rights without understanding what is actually happening. I
|
02:35:15
|
|
|
want to say I feel I, I, I don't feel necessarily uncomfortable. I, I do feel like it's rushed.
|
02:35:23
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|
So I guess question next week when they have the when they're talking about the inland port, if we don't approve this now, they
|
02:35:31
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could still improve an inland port for this area and it would.
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02:35:36
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So I guess my question for you, Chris, is, is there something in?
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02:35:44
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In this land donation and development agreement that you're not comfortable with, I mean, the inland port could happen whether or
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02:35:50
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not the, the rights are vested. Is there something that you're not comfortable with and then having vested rights? Well, I mean,
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02:35:55
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this is disapproval of a, of the resolution anyway and referral to the, the council. I just, I, I don't think it's appropriate to,
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02:36:01
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you know, necessarily without understanding truly what's going on with the property and the planning aspect of everything coming
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02:36:07
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on it to.
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02:36:13
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To recommend vesting the rights without knowing a little bit more, yeah, like we were planning on big tax revenue from that.
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02:36:19
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What's the impact, What's the impact of it, if there really is, that's a decrease in tax revenue going back to the city. I think
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02:36:26
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it's a valid question and we don't necessarily know the answer to that and I agree that.
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02:36:33
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