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Vice Chair Tay Gudmundsoncalled the meeting to order at01 PM.         INVOCATION/INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHTS/PLEDGE OFALLEGIANCE
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The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Chris Bramwell.         OPEN SESSION - Time dedicated to public comment. Comments will be limited to three (3) minutes. No actions may be taken by the Planning Commission due to the need forproper publicnotice.
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No public comments were made.         MINUTES FOR APPROVAL1   April232   July,233   August23
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MOTION: Chair Anthony Jenkins made a motion to approve the minutes for approval, items1,2, and3. Chair Bramwell seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.               BUSINESS ITEMS1   Sign Standard Waiver – Mister Car Wash Ruth Gillies with Gillies Sign & Design has applied for a Sign Standard Waiver regarding the Mister Car Wash currently under construction. The waiver would allow for an increased height and glow effect in the single-tenant monument sign and increase the quantity, location, and size of the wall signs proposed. The Planning Commission will act to either approve or deny the Sign Standard Waiver Application.
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Planner Anthony Fletcher gave a presentation showing the sign details Mister Car Wash is applying for. Vice Chair Gudmundson asked for clarification on the glow effects. Planner Cache Hancey responded, and a discussion ensued.
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MOTION: Anthony Jenkins made a motion to approve the Sign Standard Waiver application as requested by Ruth Gillies with Gillies Sign & Design with the proposed conditions of meeting all existing lighting requirements and only having the west elevation lit during operating hours. Chris Bramwell seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.         WORK SESSION1 Transportation Masterplan
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Josh Gibbons and Jillian Riches with Hales Engineering gave an update on the Transportation Masterplan. Chair Anthony Jenkins expressed some concerns and a discussion ensued.
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Resident Eileen Ericson, from the Sleepy Ridge subdivision, in response to the update, asked how the railroad will be moved. Public Works Director Naseem Ghandour responded to Ms. Ericson with the plan they have with Union Pacific and the Federal Railroad Association. Mr. Gibbons also responded to Ms. Ericson’s concern. COMMISSION MEMBERS’ REPORTS AND EX PARTE DISCUSSIONDISCLOSURE   1 United States Postal Service – Drop Box Update
Planner Cache Hancey gave an update on the Postal Service installing a drop box. ADJOURNMENT
Vice Chair Gudmundson adjourned the meeting at57 PM     MINUTES APPROVED ON: December23   CERTIFIED CORRECT BY   /s/ Heidi Jackman                                              HEIDI JACKMAN, DEPUTY RECORDER
And had their first meet up. 00:00:22
Which stands for. 00:00:35
Recreation culture. 00:00:40
Because we work for a question. 00:00:44
Reporting Arrowhead. 00:00:57
It's OK. I got. I got. 00:01:01
Here. 00:01:09
City. 00:01:47
OK. 00:01:51
Oh, welcome to Planning Commission, everybody. 00:01:52
It's gonna open this up and we're gonna start with UM. 00:01:58
What you gonna do, Chris? We're gonna do a. 00:02:05
Just a plan, vacation. 00:02:10
Thank you. 00:02:13
What do we do? See the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:02:16
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:02:22
Our Father in Heaven. We are very thankful that we can be gathered here today as a public body, as the Planning Commission, and 00:02:33
have members of our community here with us. Please bless us as we have this meeting and we administer our duties, that we can do 00:02:40
so to the best of our abilities, that we can work for the benefit of this community and for the generations to come here and 00:02:46
vineyards. We're thankful for all the blessings that you've given us Mercedes things. Amen. Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:02:53
All right. So we'll move on to an open session. 00:03:03
This is for a time for public comment. 00:03:11
About anything not on the agenda for this night, so is that. 00:03:16
Do we have any public comments today? 00:03:23
Nope. Cool. We'll move on to #3 minutes for approval. 00:03:27
Do I have? 00:03:36
Yeah. 00:03:39
I had a chance to review those. This is from April 5th, July 19th and August 2nd and I make a motion to approve the minutes. 00:03:40
For 3.13.2 and 3.3 OK do I have a second? 00:03:47
All right, All in favor, aye. 00:03:54
Excellent And number. Moving on to business items. 00:03:57
We've got a. 00:04:04
Let's see 4.1 site standard waiver for the Mr. Car Wash. 00:04:06
And do we have a presentation about that? Yeah, Anthony was gonna put that up real quick. Excellent. So I don't believe the 00:04:12
applicant is here, but we should be able to address any questions that you may have. Sounds good. 00:04:18
All right, so. 00:04:31
So we have application for the sign standard waiver. 00:04:34
For Mr. Car Wash. 00:04:39
And that is the location. 00:04:42
Right on the Northside of O'reilly's auto parts along the Geneva Rd. 00:04:45
And that's the location up close. 00:04:53
So the applicant, Ruth Gillies, who is with Gillies Sign and Design, is proposing to install one one single tenants monument sign 00:04:57
and multiple additional wall signs on each elevation of the Mr. Car wash being constructed. 00:05:07
So a signed standard waiver is required to fulfill the following requirements, which is the. 00:05:18
Single tenant monument sign height and the glow effect. 00:05:29
And also the number, location and size of the wall signs on each of the elevations. 00:05:34
So I'll take the first one, which is the single tenant monument sign. 00:05:43
The proposed sign measures 10 feet in height, but the code actually allows for six feet. Now with the signed standard waiver, he I 00:05:48
mean the the applicant can. 00:05:54
Have a sign up to 10 feet for a single tenant sign. 00:06:03
The applicant also wants to have a Halo glow effect on the logos of the sign and that can also be allowed through the. 00:06:10
Science standard waiver. 00:06:20
Having the permission approved that. 00:06:23
So that is the proposed single tenant monument sign. 00:06:28
With all the dimensions I will mention, the glow effect is only on the stars, On the only on the stars, yeah. 00:06:34
Not on any of the lettering. 00:06:41
Now the second part of the application was the number, location and size of the wall signs. The application proposes additional 00:06:48
wall signs on each elevation. The code actually allows for one maximum of one sign per elevation, but with the sign standard 00:06:58
waiver they will be allowed to have more. Now the West and N elevations have two wall signs being proposed. 00:07:08
South and E elevations have three signs that are also being proposed. 00:07:18
And that is an illustration of what they are proposing. 00:07:25
So. 00:07:39
We recommend a staff to approve the. 00:07:41
Application for the science Standard waiver for Mr. Car Wash. 00:07:46
And that would be the proposed motion, if you agree. 00:07:55
OK, I do have a few questions. So in the in the code, what is the intent behind not having the glow effect on science? 00:08:00
The the language about the glow is is very vague but mostly it has to do with impact. We don't want large bright signs that are 00:08:12
glowing and and impacting neighboring residential subdivisions. And with this sign, the single tenant monument sign being on 00:08:18
Geneva Rd. we don't see that as being an impact at all. The other signs that are on the building they will be lit up but they 00:08:24
won't have the glow effect. So our code specifically calls out that glow effect not the illumination right. OK And that that glow 00:08:30
effect is just. 00:08:36
It is behind these stars, correct. Correct. On the, on the monument side, on the monument, yeah, cast real quick. 00:08:43
Clarify glow effect versus. 00:08:53
Illuminated. 00:08:57
What's the difference? So the glow effect, it all all it says, it says internally illuminated science of opaque face panels so 00:08:59
that only letters, logos, numbers or symbols appear illuminated. Halo effect is not allowed except through a science standard 00:09:05
waiver. So that Halo effect, that glow effect is essentially lighting. That's not that logo or the lettering it's it's outside of 00:09:12
that that scope. But in this instance it's used to help enhance that logo. 00:09:19
But it's not particularly the glow effect isn't lighting up per SE, the the logo or the lettering. 00:09:28
Say that it's a difference between it having. 00:09:34
Like a panel in front of where it's going first, There's not. 00:09:39
I think is are you Bruce Oh so the applicant is here probably has better expertise if you wanna go to the microphone up there And 00:09:46
Anthony will you bring the slide show back to the introduce yourself for us Ben Murray Gillies with Gillies signs and I can 00:09:54
specify so the illumination what it is, is the light is actually coming through the letters but with the Halo it's actually 00:10:01
they're stud they're stood off and the light shines behind. OK so it gives it like the Halo effect. So it's like fine. 00:10:09
There's there's the wall, and then the sign stands off just a little enough that it illuminates through the back as well to give 00:10:17
it like a Halo effect. OK? 00:10:22
That's what I was like, trying to figure out how it was cool. 00:10:27
To answer your question. 00:10:33
OK, and then I'll write which. 00:10:35
Outside of the glow effect, which of these signs is in violation of size? 00:10:40
So on the. 00:10:50
So it's the one of the wall signs looking outside 80% of building frontage if you. 00:10:55
Share which of those signs it is and what you want to go back to the elevation that shows. 00:11:01
So the Mr. Carl or the Mr. part on the on the so I can't really read what elevation that is. That's the worst. 00:11:09
The West that and on the east elevation, those are both that Mister wording is outside of that 80%. 00:11:17
Just because it's so close, it's like on the edge of the building there. OK, so it's. 00:11:25
Essentially, the white space on either side is being violated, correct? Yeah. And this is, this is one of the most common reasons 00:11:35
we do get these signs and waivers is because people like to put their signage on the corner of buildings just to help increase 00:11:40
visibility. And so this kind of follows that suit. 00:11:46
OK. What do you feel it would impact visibility of the sign to have it? 00:11:54
Within the science standard table. 00:12:02
I think because the part that actually faces the road the way that the tunnel, it kind of faces more north, the longer part. So 00:12:12
one of the reasons we were hoping to get the science standard waivers because it is a little bit on that side, that's the main 00:12:19
visibility so. 00:12:26
It can still be seen somewhat from the other elevations, but the main one is that this is your main sinus. Yeah, OK. 00:12:35
That's good to know. Thank you. 00:12:43
And I will say, I don't believe that any of the signs themselves were beyond the actual size requirement, right. I was seeing that 00:12:47
and then I was, yeah. So it's the number of signs because our sign code only allows for one wall sign on each elevation and each 00:12:53
of these elevations have multiple signs, right. It's not often we have a standalone, correct. Correct. OK. And I was wondering 00:13:00
like in this district has, have we been approached for? 00:13:07
A waiver such as this for at the Halo effect or a larger sign. I I wasn't here when though Riley got approved. That's really the 00:13:15
only other building in this district so that has gone or that has been developed. The Jiffy Lube is under construction right now. 00:13:21
We haven't heard from them what kind of signage they're looking at doing. 00:13:27
So I can't answer that. 00:13:35
And then the difference between a six, a six foot monument and 10 is pretty significant. I'm wondering like. 00:13:38
Is that like, what is the offset from the road? Is that going to impede visibility for people turning in and out because it's 00:13:47
already going to be a pretty tight traffic situation there? 00:13:53
Do you have the site plan on this? 00:14:03
Presentation by chance. 00:14:07
So the actually I'm looking at it right now, this sign is pretty far north on the site and the entrance to the Mr. Car Wash will 00:14:11
be it looks like. 00:14:16
The right, and I think it'll be the O'Reilly parking lot is going to be the main entrance for now and This site is, you know, it's 00:14:22
too. 00:14:26
Partials up from that O'Reilly. 00:14:31
So, but this this site does not have direct access on Geneva Rd. so we don't see it impeding any kind of visibility for vehicles 00:14:34
turning. 00:14:38
With the this with the sign because it's in a. 00:14:43
The difference thought the normal for an entrance. Is that like the purpose of making it? 00:14:51
Needing it bigger. 00:14:57
They tend to just like it, as close to the building as possible or an entrance, but. 00:15:00
A lot of times there's the sight triangle and different things that we, you know, want to be conscious of. So I think that's one 00:15:09
of the reasons why they wanted it more on that side than actually closer to the O'Reilly. 00:15:15
OK. 00:15:23
OK. Does anybody else have? 00:15:26
Questions. The only question I had is. 00:15:29
On the West side, which essentially is the backside of it facing the homes, it seems unusual to have at least illuminated signs on 00:15:33
that side. I mean, I don't live in that neighborhood, but I think we need to be conscious of that. I'm not positive of the 00:15:40
O'Reilly as one on the backside, but maybe you could explain, you know, would those be lit 24/7 or are those just signs that maybe 00:15:46
aren't lit on the backside? 00:15:52
All their signs are lit. None of them are 24/7 though. They're all on a timer, so it's like from dusk till dawn. 00:15:59
But not 24 hours. 00:16:08
OK. I mean, you bring up a good point. 00:16:12
Those are my neighbors. I should think about that. So. 00:16:15
I'm assuming that business hours is peak time for having the signs on. 00:16:20
Can it be on a timer that coincides with those hours so that when like the big main lights are shut off? Maybe like? 00:16:28
I don't know. Like an hour later. 00:16:37
The the science on the building are also or I mean on outside of the building or at least the ones that are gonna be facing the 00:16:40
West. The West side, yeah, we the timer can be programmed to anything. So if that's something typically Mr. Car Wash is open until 00:16:47
8. If you want like the West side to be turned off at 9:00 or 10:00, we're happy to accommodate and you can do that as a 00:16:55
conditional approval. We've done that multiple times with these sunshine waivers. 00:17:03
OK. Yeah, that was my only call out. Just to see it on the backside because you know, once someone's queued up, you know, probably 00:17:13
looks nice there. But it's not necessary in the sense of like attracting business from the road. And I just want to make sure it's 00:17:18
not a nuisance to neighbors, but I think there's ways to. 00:17:24
Accommodate that. 00:17:32
OK. Thank you. 00:17:34
OK. Does anybody have a motion? 00:17:37
I think we can add some conditions here, such as the. 00:17:46
Timer to limit. 00:17:52
Light impact to the neighborhood? Yeah, the West facing ones of the main ones, I'd be concerned. 00:17:55
But I would probably recommend turning it off when the business is done. You know the other. 00:18:01
Elevations could probably have it on, but the one facing it. 00:18:07
Residences. 00:18:11
OK. 00:18:14
Yeah. I think it's no like we're going to have so many businesses and like lit areas right there. That's good. 00:18:16
Rear facing. 00:18:27
Yeah, I don't think that's what they're going for here either, yeah. 00:18:30
If they're all in timers, I I feel like we can. 00:18:34
Add that into the conditions so I'm happy to make a motion unless there's other conditions. 00:18:42
Well, I was thinking about timing of the white. When should it shut off regardless of hours of operation, I think it should be. 00:18:48
Daylight. You know, convenience or. 00:18:57
You know to not interrupt the neighbors back there, so. 00:19:02
Through 8:00 PM in July is different. 8:00 PM, yeah. So when the sun goes down, it goes off regardless of when the business on 00:19:07
that backside. Yeah, I mean, if it gets dark at like 6 though. So we want business still to be able to advertise but not on the 00:19:14
back, That's fair. 00:19:21
How would we word that? I mean, anything that we do will be. 00:19:32
You know, it'll it'll go to code enforcement. If we do get complaints about this light being turned on, whether it's, you know, 00:19:38
6:00 PM in the winter and it's a bright light. I think probably the easiest way that that we'd be able to enforce it on our end is 00:19:45
if you did put a time, whether that's 8:00 or 9:00 PM, that'd probably be the easiest in terms of enforcement goes. 00:19:51
Because it's just for the West elevation, correct? 00:20:00
And we also we do have lighting standards already correct, not spilling over into neighboring residents. 00:20:04
Yeah, there definitely are some protections that we already do have in place, but the more we can kind of back it up, the easier 00:20:13
it is for code enforcement if it does become an issue. OK, so like the West facing lights off by desk. 00:20:20
So we're going to put that. 00:20:28
I think you're saying a time is probably, yeah. 00:20:33
That's like a general dusky time. 00:20:38
I don't know. 00:20:41
6:00 PM in the winter time. 00:20:43
So maybe I have like 7 so that like because I don't know, we're not going to bed at 7 usually, right? 00:20:46
Yeah. I would say and if we already have kind of rules in place around signage and people can make complaints about it, would we 00:20:57
just say outside of operating hours, turn, you know, the lights get turned off and then you can use the complaint process. I don't 00:21:04
necessarily think we need to micromanage it as if we have code in place and I'm looking at it here. I mean there is some 00:21:11
substantial distance. You have a parking lot there too. OK. I'm going to say operating hours and right now. 00:21:18
Uncomfortable with that because they are currently until 8:00 PM. And what time do they open? Eight AM? 8:00 AM? 00:21:26
I'm comfortable with 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM if you want to specify that. And then if they change their hours and want to change their 00:21:36
light, they can come talk to us. 00:21:41
OK, so that condition. 00:21:48
The condition of. 00:21:56
Lights located beyond from. 00:21:59
8 to 8. 00:22:03
Operating hours, Yeah, yeah, you could specify operating hours, and I'd also specify on the West elevation. 00:22:05
And following all existing correct lighting requirements, yeah. 00:22:12
Which would it be better to say operating hours and then specifically say their operating hours? 00:22:18
I mean, if they change them though, I mean, looking at it, cuz those lights are kind of directional too. So cars like that, it's 00:22:24
right above like the day you go in. So it indicates like, hey, it's open. Yeah, you probably do want them on during operating 00:22:30
hours. But yeah, mostly I'm just wondering what's going to make staff's job easier? Probably either one will be easy enough for 00:22:36
us. 00:22:42
You know, whether it's operating hours and we know what their hours are, we can enforce it. Or if you say it's 8:00 PM, then we 00:22:48
know at 8:00 PM if they're on after that, we can work it out that way. 00:22:53
What do you are you guys more comfortable with just saying a general operating hours? 00:22:59
OK. 00:23:07
So I'm happy to make a motion more discussion. 00:23:12
I move to approve the Science Standard Waiver application as requested by Ruth Gillis with Gillis Sign and Design, with the 00:23:18
proposed conditions of meeting all existing lighting requirements and only having the West elevation lit during operating hours. 00:23:27
OK. All in favor, Aye. 00:23:39
OK. Thank you. Thank you and we can move on to our. 00:23:42
Work session. 00:23:47
5.1 Transportation Master Plan We've got a presentation correct by Josh Gibbons. 00:23:50
Yeah. Health Engineering has been working on our transportation master plan and Josh Gibbons will present that. Excellent. Thank 00:23:59
you. 00:24:02
All right. 00:24:10
OK. Well, thank you. Let's be here tonight. My name is Josh Gibbons. I worked with Hales Engineering. We're a transportation firm 00:24:13
doing traffic analysis and transportation planning of course, or an introduce or so. I'm Jillian Riches. I'm also the tales 00:24:21
engineering working on the transportation master plan for Vineyard. So Ryan Hills apologizes he couldn't be here tonight. He had 00:24:28
another public meeting to go to. So you got us to. But we'll carry on and we're happy to be here. 00:24:35
So we've been working on the master plan for a few months now. As you probably know, we talked with a couple of you. I know about 00:24:43
this. We've done some public outreach for this. And so tonight we're here to give you an update on where we're at and where we're, 00:24:50
what our next steps are and to get your input and feedback and your thoughts so we can incorporate those as we keep moving 00:24:57
forward. Next week, our plan is to present to the City Council as well on the same material, just so you know. 00:25:04
So as we go through, feel free to ask any questions you have. We have some slides just to kind of introduce the process for you 00:25:12
and for the public that's here tonight as well. So feel free to ask questions as we go. 00:25:19
So in this process, we're working on a Transportation Master Plan that's the key element of this, but it also involves four other 00:25:27
deliverables or plans. The first would be the Transportation Master Plan where we look at future traffic demand. 00:25:34
And what projects are needed to accommodate that demand, you know, as far as new roads, widening of roads? 00:25:41
But also looking at multimodal facilities for heads, bikes, transit all that, once we're done with that, we do a capital 00:25:48
facilities plan where we identify, you know what's the priority of these projects, which ones should be first, which ones can we 00:25:54
wait on a little while and then what, what are the costs associated with some of these projects? 00:26:01
And then that takes us into an impact free facilities plan where we identify the eligibility of set projects for impact fees where 00:26:09
we can where you can charge developers their impact fee to go towards those projects. And then we have an impact fee analysis 00:26:16
which takes that and actually calculates the fee that it's going to be charged per home or per thousand square feet of you know 00:26:24
each land use. So that's kind of the process we're in most of that focus on the TMP but leading into the rest of course. 00:26:32
Overall, we just want to talk about how this plan fits in with the rest of the of the plans and studies that are done in this in 00:26:42
the city. Obviously you have a general plan that establishes city goals and land uses. The master plan for transportation takes 00:26:49
that general plan and the land use is proposed and kind of plans out at a high level, at a macro level, you know how wide should 00:26:56
the roads be to accommodate this land use that we've now planned and. 00:27:03
You know what roadway connections should we plan on? 00:27:11
Beyond that then you have what are called traffic impact studies that developers are many times required to do to say because of 00:27:15
my development I need to add a turn lane or I need to help contribute towards the future traffic signal or you know change 00:27:21
specific things about intersections. So this is more high level this master plan and not so much in the details, though you will 00:27:28
see we talked about some intersection stuff as part of it as well. 00:27:34
So you know the the reason to do this now it it the last plan was kind of smaller, it was done 16 years ago. So Vineyard has 00:27:43
changed a lot since 2007 and so now now is a good time to update that. There's a lot of, there's a lot going on as far as 00:27:50
development as you know that you've seen and and road projects like Vineyard Connector coming in. 00:27:57
We should grab the. 00:28:06
We've got the laser pointer here. So you have Vineyard Vineyard Connector which is currently being built. Of course you have 1600 00:28:10
N which is currently being built as well, both key key roadways for the north side of Vineyard. Also recently the Mountain Land 00:28:16
Association of Governments mag, they adopted their 2023 regional transportation plan, their RTP or the outline projects. And so 00:28:23
now we're using their info, their latest modeling and such to use in this plan. We were a little delayed that's why it's been a 00:28:29
few months since. 00:28:35
Since we last kind of talked with some of you, we were waiting for them to finish that model, which they finished, you know, about 00:28:42
a month or so ago. So now we're moving forward with that new model. 00:28:46
This is not just about cars. We're looking at, you know, vehicles, but also transit, blocking biking. You already have a great 00:28:53
active transportation plan that looks at walking and biking, but we're going to take that, add to it where needed and this will 00:28:59
lead into other future efforts that the city is already kind of talking about. As far as a parking master plan, Mill Rd. Holdaway 00:29:04
Rd. master plans as well. 00:29:10
The purpose and goals of this would be we want to stick with the cities goal to stay connected, right? We want to make sure that 00:29:18
all modes of transportation are connected in the city, that people can walk, bike safely and efficiently, they can get to transit, 00:29:25
you know, when, when, when, when needed, and that's kind of our overarching goal here, so. 00:29:32
There we go. 00:29:41
Julian kind of talked about existing conditions. 00:29:43
A little bit. And have a collector which is more of a balance between access and mobility and then an arterial which has a lot of 00:30:20
mobility but not as much access. And MAG recommends having a collector every half mile in arterials every mile. So that's 00:30:25
something that we want to keep in mind as we move forward with looking at functional classifications in the future and if any of 00:30:30
that should be reclassified and things like that. 00:30:36
Then we also looked at the existing intersection controls. So the map that I have on the page just shows. 00:30:43
Signals roundabouts and always stops. It's not showing the two way stops but. 00:30:50
We look at those a little bit as well, different intersections and then we also have the we show the process that we look at. So 00:30:56
we might start out with an always stop and then as track volumes increase throughout the years, we might look at that intersection 00:31:01
and see if we need to consider other intersection controls. What that will also look at U dot standards for spacing between other 00:31:07
signals and things like that to make sure they don't have signals too close to each other. 00:31:13
That the spacing criteria is met, so we'll look at the different intersections and see if there's any other intersection controls 00:31:20
that we could consider moving forward. 00:31:23
An example of this is at 600 N right now that's just a two way stop. We've been looking at that and we might consider alternative 00:31:27
intersection controls there and delve into that a little bit more. 00:31:33
And then another existing condition that we looked at is level of service. So level of service just describes congestion of 00:31:42
roadways or intersections. And it's on a scale from A to F, with A being the best level of service and with F being the worst. And 00:31:47
Josh will talk a little bit more about how we defined what's acceptable and not acceptable for this plan. And his level of service 00:31:53
is from the viewpoint of the car driver. That's correct. Yeah. It's really a measure of congestion or delay of the car driver. 00:31:58
That's correct. 00:32:04
Like a pedestrian. No, No. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say it's the average car driver. So you might have a, you know, let's say you 00:32:10
come to an intersection and you wait 2 minutes to go through the intersection at a signal. That's your experience. But others 00:32:18
might go straight through if there's a green light, right. So you can average out the experience of all drivers on a road. And 00:32:25
that's kind of what how you define it. So every city and municipality can define what their acceptable threshold is. 00:32:33
If we were to set a standard of level of service, A for example, we would be overbuilding our roads for, you know, just to 00:32:41
accommodate a peak hour condition of no delay basically. Which is why we always set a standard that's not A, not B usually, and 00:32:48
usually it lands between C&E are the acceptable thresholds that cities set. In more rural areas, for example, we've seen 00:32:56
communities choose C as their acceptable thresholds, so A through C would be their their acceptable range. 00:33:03
Like Salem City for example has LOSC is our standard more urban areas go to D and even more dense urban areas sometimes go to E as 00:33:12
their letter of acceptability. Some cities vary that threshold by robot type. So like Lehigh for example they their threshold is D 00:33:20
for arterial, C for collector. As we talk to city staff we we've come up with what's shown on the screen here. So first of all 00:33:28
there's two categories we look at city roads and then the the future downtown roads that are going to be built. 00:33:36
The downtown, the idea is to make that very walkable narrow cross sections where possible and in those cases we tend to allow some 00:33:45
congestion to occur so that we don't over build a road and make it not walkable right. And if you over build a road, it's just 00:33:52
longer crossing distances to go across the road for pedestrians and it makes it not walkable as much. So we set separate standards 00:34:00
for for those two for that reason. For city roads you can see. 00:34:07
At a local level for local roads, the standard we propose is B or B or better basically to make sure you don't overload our local 00:34:15
roads in Vineyard for Collector, if you see or better arterial D or better in the downtown, maybe C are better for local and then 00:34:23
E or better for collector and arterial to allow some of that congestion to occur to allow it to be walkable. So any questions on 00:34:31
these or kind of a complicated chart, but that's that's what we've talked about with staff. So that question on how? 00:34:40
So obviously there's engineering standards within sounds like obviously you work with. 00:34:49
That improves level of service as well. So yeah, that's all going to be taken into account. So, yeah. 00:35:26
OK. So as far as level of service, we can look at it from a perspective of just a roadway segment or an intersection looking at a 00:35:33
roadway segment, it's usually based on a daily traffic volume capacity to say that a road can handle for example two lane 00:35:39
collector about. 00:35:45
At a near LOSF condition, I'll say it is 12,000 cars a day, so at an acceptable level it's less than 12,000, but that 12,000 is 00:35:52
our LOSF threshold, if that makes sense. 00:35:58
And then we calculate a volume to capacity ratio from there to say where does it fall from A to F if that makes sense. So we have 00:36:04
these thresholds. Those are two way volumes. So it's basically 6000 cars, One Direction, 6000 cars the other direction, if that 00:36:12
makes sense. And those are the numbers we use in in in this to identify how a roadway segment is performing. Does that make sense 00:36:19
for intersections? It's based on peak hour delay, so average delay in seconds per vehicle. 00:36:27
Is how we look at that so. 00:36:34
In a second here, we'll see kind of that level of service for existing conditions. So that's what this is We looked at. We took 00:36:38
some several counts throughout the city. We already had many, many counts based on past studies we've done in the city as well. So 00:36:45
we got a good kind of sample size of traffic counts in the city. 00:36:51
On the right side is the map, the numbers, I know they're kind of small, but those are the daily traffic volumes on each Rd. 00:36:59
basically and the colors represent the general level of service of each segment. To highlight a couple things for these existing 00:37:06
conditions, we realize, and I know you've seen it, that there is some congestion on 800 N or Vineyard Connector. Of course, U dot 00:37:14
recently made a change in the lanes over here that I think has helped quite a bit and from what we've seen. 00:37:21
But there is still some congestion, of course, so there'll be kind of a sea condition and AD condition. According to U dot, their 00:37:29
roads are those should be LOSD or better. So this actually fits in their standards as acceptable. So LOSD are better there. 00:37:37
And then down here, you kind of see a yellow behind the number that's LOSC for that Center Street bridge and our public 00:37:46
involvement. We heard a lot about that bridge, how people feel like it is congested going over that towards Mill Rd. So that 00:37:52
that's another spot of congestion, though it is still acceptable for the standard. But you can see here there are lots of 00:37:58
intersections that are at 4 levels of service. There's a few on Geneva. This one at 800 N in Geneva is orange for LOSD. So still 00:38:05
acceptable but congested I think. 00:38:11
Before the lane change, it was probably LOSF, but now with the lane change, it appears it's gotten much better at LOSD or so 00:38:17
anyway. So this is kind of what we look at. The last one I'll mention here would be 600 N and Main Street. It's very hard as you 00:38:24
know for someone to turn left off of 600 N onto Main Street. And so that's something that we'll we'll look at to see if there's 00:38:30
something that we can do there to fix that operation. But yeah, overall this is what what we kind of see today as the existing 00:38:36
conditions. 00:38:42
Roads and intersections. 00:39:19
Yeah. 00:39:22
Yeah. So we had all that put together, the functional class and level of service and intersection controls. And then we were able 00:39:27
to bring some of those maps to a public open house that we had here in Vineyard on April 25th. And we also had a Facebook Live 00:39:33
event the week before on April 18th where we went over the same information that we just went over with all of you. 00:39:38
And in that period, we got 131 responses. You can kind of see the breakdown of the people who responded. So majority of the people 00:40:17
who responded are people who live in Vineyard, but we also include people who work in Vineyard, shop in Vineyard or do other 00:40:22
records activities in Vineyard and there are some overlap there as well. 00:40:28
400 N and Geneva Road and also Center St. and Mill Rd. We heard some people suggesting that we could look into adding another 00:41:20
connection into Vineyard from I-15 and just getting more access to Vineyard from other cities from that way and also Center St. 00:41:26
and Mill Rd. Heavy congestion and just generally safety concerns, getting to and from parks, adding more crosswalks where we can 00:41:32
and improving pedestrian safety. And that goes along with the multimodal stuff that we want to look at as well, making sure 00:41:37
there's good safety and connectivity. 00:41:43
Throughout the city. 00:41:49
And yeah, I think Josh will continue from here. One thing I will say the years you'll see there are a little random if you just 00:42:25
look at them. But the reason we chose those years is for impact fees you have to look at a six to 10 year window from now. So we 00:42:32
chose a 10 year horizon from now to 2033 is the first kind of future year to look at and 2050 is mags future year they're looking 00:42:38
at as well. So that's why we did look at those two. 00:42:45
So future conditions just to kind of give you a glimpse of what we're seeing so far 2033, this is what we expect as of right now 00:42:52
as far as. 00:42:56
Level of service and traffic volumes. So within a 10 year period based on those land use projections from MAG and the local 00:43:02
adjustments we made Vineyard Connector we show going to basically A5 lane capacity or volume in the future, you know 36,000 or so 00:43:09
cars, almost 40,000 cars a day. 00:43:17
On Vineyard Connector, so that would require kind of A5 Lane Rd. There with two lanes per direction, 1 center turn lane to the 00:43:25
north. You can see on the future Vineyard extension those volumes are increasing and the project may be needed up there down here 00:43:31
on Center St. 00:43:37
We expected that volume to grow. That volume will grow on Center St. on the bridge and we may need to do something near there to 00:43:43
increase capacity as well. There's other congestion. You can see some yellow roads, LOSC, those are still acceptable, but 00:43:49
obviously growing in some congestion there. 00:43:55
Phase there and there's a few other spots in the city that we see congestion of course that we want to look at. So these are kind 00:44:37
of the 1st results we're getting back for that future condition and this kind of leads into us knowing what projects we could 00:44:44
potentially look at. Any questions on those at all at this point or? 00:44:50
OK. So looking at potential projects, MAG already has their funded projects that we know are likely to come in in a certain time 00:44:58
period. So we can look at those. We know what we've assumed here. We haven't listed every single new road that a development will 00:45:06
build within their development. We just focus on the major ones for now. And the projects we look at, it includes both 00:45:14
intersection and roadway projects to mitigate that unacceptable Los and we try to phase them by year. 00:45:21
So I have a table here. If you can't tell this is a draft format. I've written it twice on the screen. But these are potential 00:45:29
projects we've talked about. So I'll just kind of look at just kind of go through them really quickly here. So as a phase one 00:45:37
immediate need these, would we put these here to potentially address the 2023 issues. So three of these aren't are on Geneva Road 00:45:45
1600 N, 400 N and Center St. on Geneva Rd. adding capacity in various ways by adding turn lanes. 00:45:52
Or U dot changing signal timing and whatnot. We've learned that. 00:46:00
The rail line on the West side of Geneva is really the physical barrier there. Once that rail is consolidated, U will have many 00:46:08
more options to explore for widening on Geneva if needed or other changes at the intersections. For now their their hands are a 00:46:13
little bit tied with the railroad, but we expect that a lot of these things can be fixed once that rail goes away and is 00:46:18
consolidated there. 00:46:24
You can see here we have 600 N and Main Street showing the crosswalks. Like Jillian said, that's already being worked on by staff, 00:46:31
and that'll be a great addition to have some crosswalks across Main Street there. 00:46:36
In addition to that, you know one thing we'll kind of look at would be maybe an alternate intersection control there. Right now 00:46:42
it's two way stop on the east and West side, but we would maybe consider other things potentially. 00:46:48
You know, whether it's maybe a roundabout or whatever it may be restricting, you know, just doing different things there. And 00:46:56
that's something we don't know the answer yet to yet, but we'll we'll we'll we'll be working on that too. 00:47:02
For a short term need to 203033 and like I said vineyard connector. 00:47:11
Would likely have to go to five lanes between Main Street and Geneva Rd. 00:47:16
Center St. and Mill Rd. We, we expect we need to increase the capacity there by changing maybe some of the lane configuration 00:47:22
there or the signal timing to get more cars through you know during that peak time. 00:47:27
For long term needs, so far what we're looking at would be Vineyard Connector both to the north and to the east would be widening 00:47:34
the three, sorry, the seven lanes there to accommodate the demand. That's mostly due to I would say local development that's 00:47:40
proposed, right. The downtown is a big part of that where they're proposing some densities there. 00:47:46
And the good thing about Vineyard is there's not a lot of cut through traffic, so but the The thing is that this is caused by a 00:47:55
lot of local development of course so. 00:47:59
1600 N we go to five lanes. Like I've already said, that's already in the mag plan as well. 00:48:06
There's an idea for 1200 N to actually extend that over the rail between Venture Connector and Geneva Rd. That would be probably 00:48:12
A5 Lane Rd. going over there. So that would be one idea to take pressure off of Vineyard Connector and other roads too. And then 00:48:18
Main St. in the downtown area, we just want to make sure we have that intersection and that roadway segment wide enough to 00:48:24
accommodate the demand. 00:48:31
There's a couple more here for increasing intersection capacity on Geneva Rd. which like I said you already thinking about and 00:48:38
working on. And then 400 S down there by the Orem Park. We we've, we've talked with staff about that how there's concerns about 00:48:46
the flow of traffic between Geneva Road and Vineyard Rd. by the park. And so at least in the future future condition we would 00:48:53
expect we can widen that segment of Rd. potentially and then make other intersection improvements there as well. 00:49:00
So the next steps we have here would be we want to look at more at the multimodal that the roadway is usually the first step 00:49:09
because that takes the longest to do the modeling. But now that we have that framework, we'll we'll now focus on active 00:49:15
transportation and transit projects as well. And then we'll establish the future functional classification of rows, make sure you 00:49:21
have a good grid network planned out for the future. And we'll we're going to propose some transportation guidelines to be used 00:49:27
like access management guidelines. 00:49:33
Traffic impact studies to make sure you get what you need out of those studies for your future transportation system, traffic 00:49:40
calming, all that. And then we'll then focus on impact fees to look at the costs of those 10 year projects for the impact fees and 00:49:46
we'll calculate the eligibility of those and then we'll identify the impact fee from there. So sorry, there was a lot of 00:49:52
information. We're really excited about this work and we're excited to work in Vineyard. Are there any questions about any of that 00:49:58
we we went over? 00:50:04
And beyond questions, any feedback? Any thoughts you have too? 00:50:14
One I was going to ask it. 00:50:18
Like after our discussion, can we take public questions? 00:50:21
Sorry, I'm not sure it's up to you. Is it being work session? You can ask for public to make comments if they have any okay. 00:50:26
Can you hold your question till okay? I'll let you know. 00:50:36
Earlier, you'd mentioned you were going to talk a little bit more about multimodal transportation. 00:50:41
I didn't see. Yeah, sorry, I meant that we're going to cover that in the plan. We're still, yeah. So the timeline for this is 00:50:47
we're planning to wrap it up by late November, early December before the year wraps up. So like I said, the focus has been so far 00:50:53
on Broadway and traffic modelling for vehicles so far. That's kind of the pinch point on these plans many times. So we want to 00:51:00
make sure we get that out of the way. The modeling takes time and we're happy where we're at now and now we want to take that, 00:51:06
take these robate projects. 00:51:13
And see how we can incorporate multimodal elements. So that would be the next presentation where we come and talk to you about 00:51:20
that as well. So I apologize, we don't have a lot right now. 00:51:24
One thing, I guess one thing I will say, I know there's been even in the public outreach and discussions we've had with staff, you 00:51:29
know some some neighbors within the city talked about well, could you do a pedestrian crossing at 400 N across the rail, you know 00:51:35
to connect the east and West side. So as an example that would be one thing we're going to talk about more and see feasibility and 00:51:42
all that. So that's great. Yeah, the, the other comment I was going to make is. 00:51:49
And we're already kind of cut in half with the rail I think anytime. So you know vendor connector right now the width that it is, 00:51:56
if you widen it, it almost like makes it, it makes it less accessible by anything other than car. And so I want to make sure that 00:52:03
if we've got a walkable downtown, you don't have to drive to get there to walk, right. 00:52:10
And and you can widen the road and still have other modes to get there. So you know trail we've got one hopefully they'll reopen 00:52:19
soon that goes underneath the vineyard connector and other ways that we can do that. So I just wanna make sure that that's part of 00:52:24
the the conversation too and I also wanna make sure that. 00:52:30
We try to get it as close to right the first time because it, you know, it's expensive to widen, but it's also expensive to. 00:52:38
Road diet, right. Like, I think we've kind of discovered that Mill Mill Rd. is not in danger of having any traffic issues any 00:52:45
time, you know, it's a very big Rd. It is, yeah. 00:52:50
And that causes its own problems, but it's under building, right? So. 00:52:57
You know, getting at its close to long term, right As possible, definitely. Yeah, great, great comment. So yeah, OK, can we would 00:53:01
you mind accessing the microphone, Can we get your question? 00:53:09
Introduce yourself and then. 00:53:17
Eileen Erickson in the Sleepy Ridge area. I want to know how you're going to move a railroad. 00:53:20
We all want to know that, OK? 00:53:27
All right, what you were talking about. So if you want to answer, I can. I can answer that one because that's outside his scope. 00:53:31
Cool, cool. 00:53:35
So the works director, so the rails for that he's referring to is the rail spur that goes along Geneva Rd. on the east side of the 00:53:41
city. And we're currently in discussions with Union Pacific in terms of realigning that through Ellsberg along the east part of 00:53:49
the city through the industrial area. So. So the road will be coming down Geneva where 1600 N would be. Are you familiar with 69 N 00:53:57
OK, So what would be where 69 N would be and then then cut W toward out through the. 00:54:06
Vineyards industrial area to South of Almond and then reconnect. 00:54:14
And then that not only are we working on Union Pacific, but we're also working with the Federal Railroad Administration, which is 00:54:53
a federal agency, as well as the Utah dot because as soon as that becomes available, it is cleared like what was presented in this 00:55:00
thing. There's lots of projects that are going to pick up not just with dot, but city Voron has potential projects that they would 00:55:07
like to do as well and but to answer the question. 00:55:15
Your real question about how you remove a railroad one truck at a time. 00:55:23
And if I could add to that too, like like Naseem said, I think that one, one big thing that'll help in your traffic, even though 00:55:28
it's on the Orem side on Center St. once that rail is consolidated, Orem has plans to widen that pinch point east of Geneva on 00:55:34
Center Street where it goes down to two lanes out to five lanes. That'll be huge, I think for both Orem and Vineyard to get out of 00:55:40
the freeway faster so. 00:55:45
OK. Do we have any more questions from Commission or the public? 00:55:54
OK. Thank you so much for coming and presenting those. It's really good to know Foresight. 00:56:02
I loved it. The scene of engineering. 00:56:09
OK. 00:56:14
With that, we can move on to Item 6, Commission members, reports and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 00:56:18
We got anything guys? No, nothing exciting. How about staff? I do have something. Bryce isn't here though, so I mean, it's a 00:56:27
disappointing news. I spoke with Postal Service about a drop off. 00:56:33
They pretty much said no updates. They said it's going through the process, whatever that means. But they, I mean he remembered my 00:56:41
name, so at least. 00:56:45
Yeah, at least that they're thinking about us. At least you know you're haunting him, so yeah. Yeah. 00:56:51
So he asked if there were a lot of people asking me about it. So the more people that do ask me about it, the more honest I can 00:56:58
answer that question as well. All right, you can add me to your list, OK? 00:57:04
Might not be a bad idea but yeah so I'll keep working closely with the Postal Service to get that going. So but yeah he he did say 00:57:12
it's going through the process and they've dropped it off here at the city building so. 00:57:20
OK. Anybody else? 00:57:29
Then this meeting is adjourned. Have a great night, everybody. Thanks for coming. 00:57:33
So. 00:57:42
So. 00:57:46
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And had their first meet up. 00:00:22
Which stands for. 00:00:35
Recreation culture. 00:00:40
Because we work for a question. 00:00:44
Reporting Arrowhead. 00:00:57
It's OK. I got. I got. 00:01:01
Here. 00:01:09
City. 00:01:47
OK. 00:01:51
Oh, welcome to Planning Commission, everybody. 00:01:52
It's gonna open this up and we're gonna start with UM. 00:01:58
What you gonna do, Chris? We're gonna do a. 00:02:05
Just a plan, vacation. 00:02:10
Thank you. 00:02:13
What do we do? See the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 00:02:16
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:02:22
Our Father in Heaven. We are very thankful that we can be gathered here today as a public body, as the Planning Commission, and 00:02:33
have members of our community here with us. Please bless us as we have this meeting and we administer our duties, that we can do 00:02:40
so to the best of our abilities, that we can work for the benefit of this community and for the generations to come here and 00:02:46
vineyards. We're thankful for all the blessings that you've given us Mercedes things. Amen. Jesus Christ, Amen. 00:02:53
All right. So we'll move on to an open session. 00:03:03
This is for a time for public comment. 00:03:11
About anything not on the agenda for this night, so is that. 00:03:16
Do we have any public comments today? 00:03:23
Nope. Cool. We'll move on to #3 minutes for approval. 00:03:27
Do I have? 00:03:36
Yeah. 00:03:39
I had a chance to review those. This is from April 5th, July 19th and August 2nd and I make a motion to approve the minutes. 00:03:40
For 3.13.2 and 3.3 OK do I have a second? 00:03:47
All right, All in favor, aye. 00:03:54
Excellent And number. Moving on to business items. 00:03:57
We've got a. 00:04:04
Let's see 4.1 site standard waiver for the Mr. Car Wash. 00:04:06
And do we have a presentation about that? Yeah, Anthony was gonna put that up real quick. Excellent. So I don't believe the 00:04:12
applicant is here, but we should be able to address any questions that you may have. Sounds good. 00:04:18
All right, so. 00:04:31
So we have application for the sign standard waiver. 00:04:34
For Mr. Car Wash. 00:04:39
And that is the location. 00:04:42
Right on the Northside of O'reilly's auto parts along the Geneva Rd. 00:04:45
And that's the location up close. 00:04:53
So the applicant, Ruth Gillies, who is with Gillies Sign and Design, is proposing to install one one single tenants monument sign 00:04:57
and multiple additional wall signs on each elevation of the Mr. Car wash being constructed. 00:05:07
So a signed standard waiver is required to fulfill the following requirements, which is the. 00:05:18
Single tenant monument sign height and the glow effect. 00:05:29
And also the number, location and size of the wall signs on each of the elevations. 00:05:34
So I'll take the first one, which is the single tenant monument sign. 00:05:43
The proposed sign measures 10 feet in height, but the code actually allows for six feet. Now with the signed standard waiver, he I 00:05:48
mean the the applicant can. 00:05:54
Have a sign up to 10 feet for a single tenant sign. 00:06:03
The applicant also wants to have a Halo glow effect on the logos of the sign and that can also be allowed through the. 00:06:10
Science standard waiver. 00:06:20
Having the permission approved that. 00:06:23
So that is the proposed single tenant monument sign. 00:06:28
With all the dimensions I will mention, the glow effect is only on the stars, On the only on the stars, yeah. 00:06:34
Not on any of the lettering. 00:06:41
Now the second part of the application was the number, location and size of the wall signs. The application proposes additional 00:06:48
wall signs on each elevation. The code actually allows for one maximum of one sign per elevation, but with the sign standard 00:06:58
waiver they will be allowed to have more. Now the West and N elevations have two wall signs being proposed. 00:07:08
South and E elevations have three signs that are also being proposed. 00:07:18
And that is an illustration of what they are proposing. 00:07:25
So. 00:07:39
We recommend a staff to approve the. 00:07:41
Application for the science Standard waiver for Mr. Car Wash. 00:07:46
And that would be the proposed motion, if you agree. 00:07:55
OK, I do have a few questions. So in the in the code, what is the intent behind not having the glow effect on science? 00:08:00
The the language about the glow is is very vague but mostly it has to do with impact. We don't want large bright signs that are 00:08:12
glowing and and impacting neighboring residential subdivisions. And with this sign, the single tenant monument sign being on 00:08:18
Geneva Rd. we don't see that as being an impact at all. The other signs that are on the building they will be lit up but they 00:08:24
won't have the glow effect. So our code specifically calls out that glow effect not the illumination right. OK And that that glow 00:08:30
effect is just. 00:08:36
It is behind these stars, correct. Correct. On the, on the monument side, on the monument, yeah, cast real quick. 00:08:43
Clarify glow effect versus. 00:08:53
Illuminated. 00:08:57
What's the difference? So the glow effect, it all all it says, it says internally illuminated science of opaque face panels so 00:08:59
that only letters, logos, numbers or symbols appear illuminated. Halo effect is not allowed except through a science standard 00:09:05
waiver. So that Halo effect, that glow effect is essentially lighting. That's not that logo or the lettering it's it's outside of 00:09:12
that that scope. But in this instance it's used to help enhance that logo. 00:09:19
But it's not particularly the glow effect isn't lighting up per SE, the the logo or the lettering. 00:09:28
Say that it's a difference between it having. 00:09:34
Like a panel in front of where it's going first, There's not. 00:09:39
I think is are you Bruce Oh so the applicant is here probably has better expertise if you wanna go to the microphone up there And 00:09:46
Anthony will you bring the slide show back to the introduce yourself for us Ben Murray Gillies with Gillies signs and I can 00:09:54
specify so the illumination what it is, is the light is actually coming through the letters but with the Halo it's actually 00:10:01
they're stud they're stood off and the light shines behind. OK so it gives it like the Halo effect. So it's like fine. 00:10:09
There's there's the wall, and then the sign stands off just a little enough that it illuminates through the back as well to give 00:10:17
it like a Halo effect. OK? 00:10:22
That's what I was like, trying to figure out how it was cool. 00:10:27
To answer your question. 00:10:33
OK, and then I'll write which. 00:10:35
Outside of the glow effect, which of these signs is in violation of size? 00:10:40
So on the. 00:10:50
So it's the one of the wall signs looking outside 80% of building frontage if you. 00:10:55
Share which of those signs it is and what you want to go back to the elevation that shows. 00:11:01
So the Mr. Carl or the Mr. part on the on the so I can't really read what elevation that is. That's the worst. 00:11:09
The West that and on the east elevation, those are both that Mister wording is outside of that 80%. 00:11:17
Just because it's so close, it's like on the edge of the building there. OK, so it's. 00:11:25
Essentially, the white space on either side is being violated, correct? Yeah. And this is, this is one of the most common reasons 00:11:35
we do get these signs and waivers is because people like to put their signage on the corner of buildings just to help increase 00:11:40
visibility. And so this kind of follows that suit. 00:11:46
OK. What do you feel it would impact visibility of the sign to have it? 00:11:54
Within the science standard table. 00:12:02
I think because the part that actually faces the road the way that the tunnel, it kind of faces more north, the longer part. So 00:12:12
one of the reasons we were hoping to get the science standard waivers because it is a little bit on that side, that's the main 00:12:19
visibility so. 00:12:26
It can still be seen somewhat from the other elevations, but the main one is that this is your main sinus. Yeah, OK. 00:12:35
That's good to know. Thank you. 00:12:43
And I will say, I don't believe that any of the signs themselves were beyond the actual size requirement, right. I was seeing that 00:12:47
and then I was, yeah. So it's the number of signs because our sign code only allows for one wall sign on each elevation and each 00:12:53
of these elevations have multiple signs, right. It's not often we have a standalone, correct. Correct. OK. And I was wondering 00:13:00
like in this district has, have we been approached for? 00:13:07
A waiver such as this for at the Halo effect or a larger sign. I I wasn't here when though Riley got approved. That's really the 00:13:15
only other building in this district so that has gone or that has been developed. The Jiffy Lube is under construction right now. 00:13:21
We haven't heard from them what kind of signage they're looking at doing. 00:13:27
So I can't answer that. 00:13:35
And then the difference between a six, a six foot monument and 10 is pretty significant. I'm wondering like. 00:13:38
Is that like, what is the offset from the road? Is that going to impede visibility for people turning in and out because it's 00:13:47
already going to be a pretty tight traffic situation there? 00:13:53
Do you have the site plan on this? 00:14:03
Presentation by chance. 00:14:07
So the actually I'm looking at it right now, this sign is pretty far north on the site and the entrance to the Mr. Car Wash will 00:14:11
be it looks like. 00:14:16
The right, and I think it'll be the O'Reilly parking lot is going to be the main entrance for now and This site is, you know, it's 00:14:22
too. 00:14:26
Partials up from that O'Reilly. 00:14:31
So, but this this site does not have direct access on Geneva Rd. so we don't see it impeding any kind of visibility for vehicles 00:14:34
turning. 00:14:38
With the this with the sign because it's in a. 00:14:43
The difference thought the normal for an entrance. Is that like the purpose of making it? 00:14:51
Needing it bigger. 00:14:57
They tend to just like it, as close to the building as possible or an entrance, but. 00:15:00
A lot of times there's the sight triangle and different things that we, you know, want to be conscious of. So I think that's one 00:15:09
of the reasons why they wanted it more on that side than actually closer to the O'Reilly. 00:15:15
OK. 00:15:23
OK. Does anybody else have? 00:15:26
Questions. The only question I had is. 00:15:29
On the West side, which essentially is the backside of it facing the homes, it seems unusual to have at least illuminated signs on 00:15:33
that side. I mean, I don't live in that neighborhood, but I think we need to be conscious of that. I'm not positive of the 00:15:40
O'Reilly as one on the backside, but maybe you could explain, you know, would those be lit 24/7 or are those just signs that maybe 00:15:46
aren't lit on the backside? 00:15:52
All their signs are lit. None of them are 24/7 though. They're all on a timer, so it's like from dusk till dawn. 00:15:59
But not 24 hours. 00:16:08
OK. I mean, you bring up a good point. 00:16:12
Those are my neighbors. I should think about that. So. 00:16:15
I'm assuming that business hours is peak time for having the signs on. 00:16:20
Can it be on a timer that coincides with those hours so that when like the big main lights are shut off? Maybe like? 00:16:28
I don't know. Like an hour later. 00:16:37
The the science on the building are also or I mean on outside of the building or at least the ones that are gonna be facing the 00:16:40
West. The West side, yeah, we the timer can be programmed to anything. So if that's something typically Mr. Car Wash is open until 00:16:47
8. If you want like the West side to be turned off at 9:00 or 10:00, we're happy to accommodate and you can do that as a 00:16:55
conditional approval. We've done that multiple times with these sunshine waivers. 00:17:03
OK. Yeah, that was my only call out. Just to see it on the backside because you know, once someone's queued up, you know, probably 00:17:13
looks nice there. But it's not necessary in the sense of like attracting business from the road. And I just want to make sure it's 00:17:18
not a nuisance to neighbors, but I think there's ways to. 00:17:24
Accommodate that. 00:17:32
OK. Thank you. 00:17:34
OK. Does anybody have a motion? 00:17:37
I think we can add some conditions here, such as the. 00:17:46
Timer to limit. 00:17:52
Light impact to the neighborhood? Yeah, the West facing ones of the main ones, I'd be concerned. 00:17:55
But I would probably recommend turning it off when the business is done. You know the other. 00:18:01
Elevations could probably have it on, but the one facing it. 00:18:07
Residences. 00:18:11
OK. 00:18:14
Yeah. I think it's no like we're going to have so many businesses and like lit areas right there. That's good. 00:18:16
Rear facing. 00:18:27
Yeah, I don't think that's what they're going for here either, yeah. 00:18:30
If they're all in timers, I I feel like we can. 00:18:34
Add that into the conditions so I'm happy to make a motion unless there's other conditions. 00:18:42
Well, I was thinking about timing of the white. When should it shut off regardless of hours of operation, I think it should be. 00:18:48
Daylight. You know, convenience or. 00:18:57
You know to not interrupt the neighbors back there, so. 00:19:02
Through 8:00 PM in July is different. 8:00 PM, yeah. So when the sun goes down, it goes off regardless of when the business on 00:19:07
that backside. Yeah, I mean, if it gets dark at like 6 though. So we want business still to be able to advertise but not on the 00:19:14
back, That's fair. 00:19:21
How would we word that? I mean, anything that we do will be. 00:19:32
You know, it'll it'll go to code enforcement. If we do get complaints about this light being turned on, whether it's, you know, 00:19:38
6:00 PM in the winter and it's a bright light. I think probably the easiest way that that we'd be able to enforce it on our end is 00:19:45
if you did put a time, whether that's 8:00 or 9:00 PM, that'd probably be the easiest in terms of enforcement goes. 00:19:51
Because it's just for the West elevation, correct? 00:20:00
And we also we do have lighting standards already correct, not spilling over into neighboring residents. 00:20:04
Yeah, there definitely are some protections that we already do have in place, but the more we can kind of back it up, the easier 00:20:13
it is for code enforcement if it does become an issue. OK, so like the West facing lights off by desk. 00:20:20
So we're going to put that. 00:20:28
I think you're saying a time is probably, yeah. 00:20:33
That's like a general dusky time. 00:20:38
I don't know. 00:20:41
6:00 PM in the winter time. 00:20:43
So maybe I have like 7 so that like because I don't know, we're not going to bed at 7 usually, right? 00:20:46
Yeah. I would say and if we already have kind of rules in place around signage and people can make complaints about it, would we 00:20:57
just say outside of operating hours, turn, you know, the lights get turned off and then you can use the complaint process. I don't 00:21:04
necessarily think we need to micromanage it as if we have code in place and I'm looking at it here. I mean there is some 00:21:11
substantial distance. You have a parking lot there too. OK. I'm going to say operating hours and right now. 00:21:18
Uncomfortable with that because they are currently until 8:00 PM. And what time do they open? Eight AM? 8:00 AM? 00:21:26
I'm comfortable with 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM if you want to specify that. And then if they change their hours and want to change their 00:21:36
light, they can come talk to us. 00:21:41
OK, so that condition. 00:21:48
The condition of. 00:21:56
Lights located beyond from. 00:21:59
8 to 8. 00:22:03
Operating hours, Yeah, yeah, you could specify operating hours, and I'd also specify on the West elevation. 00:22:05
And following all existing correct lighting requirements, yeah. 00:22:12
Which would it be better to say operating hours and then specifically say their operating hours? 00:22:18
I mean, if they change them though, I mean, looking at it, cuz those lights are kind of directional too. So cars like that, it's 00:22:24
right above like the day you go in. So it indicates like, hey, it's open. Yeah, you probably do want them on during operating 00:22:30
hours. But yeah, mostly I'm just wondering what's going to make staff's job easier? Probably either one will be easy enough for 00:22:36
us. 00:22:42
You know, whether it's operating hours and we know what their hours are, we can enforce it. Or if you say it's 8:00 PM, then we 00:22:48
know at 8:00 PM if they're on after that, we can work it out that way. 00:22:53
What do you are you guys more comfortable with just saying a general operating hours? 00:22:59
OK. 00:23:07
So I'm happy to make a motion more discussion. 00:23:12
I move to approve the Science Standard Waiver application as requested by Ruth Gillis with Gillis Sign and Design, with the 00:23:18
proposed conditions of meeting all existing lighting requirements and only having the West elevation lit during operating hours. 00:23:27
OK. All in favor, Aye. 00:23:39
OK. Thank you. Thank you and we can move on to our. 00:23:42
Work session. 00:23:47
5.1 Transportation Master Plan We've got a presentation correct by Josh Gibbons. 00:23:50
Yeah. Health Engineering has been working on our transportation master plan and Josh Gibbons will present that. Excellent. Thank 00:23:59
you. 00:24:02
All right. 00:24:10
OK. Well, thank you. Let's be here tonight. My name is Josh Gibbons. I worked with Hales Engineering. We're a transportation firm 00:24:13
doing traffic analysis and transportation planning of course, or an introduce or so. I'm Jillian Riches. I'm also the tales 00:24:21
engineering working on the transportation master plan for Vineyard. So Ryan Hills apologizes he couldn't be here tonight. He had 00:24:28
another public meeting to go to. So you got us to. But we'll carry on and we're happy to be here. 00:24:35
So we've been working on the master plan for a few months now. As you probably know, we talked with a couple of you. I know about 00:24:43
this. We've done some public outreach for this. And so tonight we're here to give you an update on where we're at and where we're, 00:24:50
what our next steps are and to get your input and feedback and your thoughts so we can incorporate those as we keep moving 00:24:57
forward. Next week, our plan is to present to the City Council as well on the same material, just so you know. 00:25:04
So as we go through, feel free to ask any questions you have. We have some slides just to kind of introduce the process for you 00:25:12
and for the public that's here tonight as well. So feel free to ask questions as we go. 00:25:19
So in this process, we're working on a Transportation Master Plan that's the key element of this, but it also involves four other 00:25:27
deliverables or plans. The first would be the Transportation Master Plan where we look at future traffic demand. 00:25:34
And what projects are needed to accommodate that demand, you know, as far as new roads, widening of roads? 00:25:41
But also looking at multimodal facilities for heads, bikes, transit all that, once we're done with that, we do a capital 00:25:48
facilities plan where we identify, you know what's the priority of these projects, which ones should be first, which ones can we 00:25:54
wait on a little while and then what, what are the costs associated with some of these projects? 00:26:01
And then that takes us into an impact free facilities plan where we identify the eligibility of set projects for impact fees where 00:26:09
we can where you can charge developers their impact fee to go towards those projects. And then we have an impact fee analysis 00:26:16
which takes that and actually calculates the fee that it's going to be charged per home or per thousand square feet of you know 00:26:24
each land use. So that's kind of the process we're in most of that focus on the TMP but leading into the rest of course. 00:26:32
Overall, we just want to talk about how this plan fits in with the rest of the of the plans and studies that are done in this in 00:26:42
the city. Obviously you have a general plan that establishes city goals and land uses. The master plan for transportation takes 00:26:49
that general plan and the land use is proposed and kind of plans out at a high level, at a macro level, you know how wide should 00:26:56
the roads be to accommodate this land use that we've now planned and. 00:27:03
You know what roadway connections should we plan on? 00:27:11
Beyond that then you have what are called traffic impact studies that developers are many times required to do to say because of 00:27:15
my development I need to add a turn lane or I need to help contribute towards the future traffic signal or you know change 00:27:21
specific things about intersections. So this is more high level this master plan and not so much in the details, though you will 00:27:28
see we talked about some intersection stuff as part of it as well. 00:27:34
So you know the the reason to do this now it it the last plan was kind of smaller, it was done 16 years ago. So Vineyard has 00:27:43
changed a lot since 2007 and so now now is a good time to update that. There's a lot of, there's a lot going on as far as 00:27:50
development as you know that you've seen and and road projects like Vineyard Connector coming in. 00:27:57
We should grab the. 00:28:06
We've got the laser pointer here. So you have Vineyard Vineyard Connector which is currently being built. Of course you have 1600 00:28:10
N which is currently being built as well, both key key roadways for the north side of Vineyard. Also recently the Mountain Land 00:28:16
Association of Governments mag, they adopted their 2023 regional transportation plan, their RTP or the outline projects. And so 00:28:23
now we're using their info, their latest modeling and such to use in this plan. We were a little delayed that's why it's been a 00:28:29
few months since. 00:28:35
Since we last kind of talked with some of you, we were waiting for them to finish that model, which they finished, you know, about 00:28:42
a month or so ago. So now we're moving forward with that new model. 00:28:46
This is not just about cars. We're looking at, you know, vehicles, but also transit, blocking biking. You already have a great 00:28:53
active transportation plan that looks at walking and biking, but we're going to take that, add to it where needed and this will 00:28:59
lead into other future efforts that the city is already kind of talking about. As far as a parking master plan, Mill Rd. Holdaway 00:29:04
Rd. master plans as well. 00:29:10
The purpose and goals of this would be we want to stick with the cities goal to stay connected, right? We want to make sure that 00:29:18
all modes of transportation are connected in the city, that people can walk, bike safely and efficiently, they can get to transit, 00:29:25
you know, when, when, when, when needed, and that's kind of our overarching goal here, so. 00:29:32
There we go. 00:29:41
Julian kind of talked about existing conditions. 00:29:43
A little bit. And have a collector which is more of a balance between access and mobility and then an arterial which has a lot of 00:30:20
mobility but not as much access. And MAG recommends having a collector every half mile in arterials every mile. So that's 00:30:25
something that we want to keep in mind as we move forward with looking at functional classifications in the future and if any of 00:30:30
that should be reclassified and things like that. 00:30:36
Then we also looked at the existing intersection controls. So the map that I have on the page just shows. 00:30:43
Signals roundabouts and always stops. It's not showing the two way stops but. 00:30:50
We look at those a little bit as well, different intersections and then we also have the we show the process that we look at. So 00:30:56
we might start out with an always stop and then as track volumes increase throughout the years, we might look at that intersection 00:31:01
and see if we need to consider other intersection controls. What that will also look at U dot standards for spacing between other 00:31:07
signals and things like that to make sure they don't have signals too close to each other. 00:31:13
That the spacing criteria is met, so we'll look at the different intersections and see if there's any other intersection controls 00:31:20
that we could consider moving forward. 00:31:23
An example of this is at 600 N right now that's just a two way stop. We've been looking at that and we might consider alternative 00:31:27
intersection controls there and delve into that a little bit more. 00:31:33
And then another existing condition that we looked at is level of service. So level of service just describes congestion of 00:31:42
roadways or intersections. And it's on a scale from A to F, with A being the best level of service and with F being the worst. And 00:31:47
Josh will talk a little bit more about how we defined what's acceptable and not acceptable for this plan. And his level of service 00:31:53
is from the viewpoint of the car driver. That's correct. Yeah. It's really a measure of congestion or delay of the car driver. 00:31:58
That's correct. 00:32:04
Like a pedestrian. No, No. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say it's the average car driver. So you might have a, you know, let's say you 00:32:10
come to an intersection and you wait 2 minutes to go through the intersection at a signal. That's your experience. But others 00:32:18
might go straight through if there's a green light, right. So you can average out the experience of all drivers on a road. And 00:32:25
that's kind of what how you define it. So every city and municipality can define what their acceptable threshold is. 00:32:33
If we were to set a standard of level of service, A for example, we would be overbuilding our roads for, you know, just to 00:32:41
accommodate a peak hour condition of no delay basically. Which is why we always set a standard that's not A, not B usually, and 00:32:48
usually it lands between C&E are the acceptable thresholds that cities set. In more rural areas, for example, we've seen 00:32:56
communities choose C as their acceptable thresholds, so A through C would be their their acceptable range. 00:33:03
Like Salem City for example has LOSC is our standard more urban areas go to D and even more dense urban areas sometimes go to E as 00:33:12
their letter of acceptability. Some cities vary that threshold by robot type. So like Lehigh for example they their threshold is D 00:33:20
for arterial, C for collector. As we talk to city staff we we've come up with what's shown on the screen here. So first of all 00:33:28
there's two categories we look at city roads and then the the future downtown roads that are going to be built. 00:33:36
The downtown, the idea is to make that very walkable narrow cross sections where possible and in those cases we tend to allow some 00:33:45
congestion to occur so that we don't over build a road and make it not walkable right. And if you over build a road, it's just 00:33:52
longer crossing distances to go across the road for pedestrians and it makes it not walkable as much. So we set separate standards 00:34:00
for for those two for that reason. For city roads you can see. 00:34:07
At a local level for local roads, the standard we propose is B or B or better basically to make sure you don't overload our local 00:34:15
roads in Vineyard for Collector, if you see or better arterial D or better in the downtown, maybe C are better for local and then 00:34:23
E or better for collector and arterial to allow some of that congestion to occur to allow it to be walkable. So any questions on 00:34:31
these or kind of a complicated chart, but that's that's what we've talked about with staff. So that question on how? 00:34:40
So obviously there's engineering standards within sounds like obviously you work with. 00:34:49
That improves level of service as well. So yeah, that's all going to be taken into account. So, yeah. 00:35:26
OK. So as far as level of service, we can look at it from a perspective of just a roadway segment or an intersection looking at a 00:35:33
roadway segment, it's usually based on a daily traffic volume capacity to say that a road can handle for example two lane 00:35:39
collector about. 00:35:45
At a near LOSF condition, I'll say it is 12,000 cars a day, so at an acceptable level it's less than 12,000, but that 12,000 is 00:35:52
our LOSF threshold, if that makes sense. 00:35:58
And then we calculate a volume to capacity ratio from there to say where does it fall from A to F if that makes sense. So we have 00:36:04
these thresholds. Those are two way volumes. So it's basically 6000 cars, One Direction, 6000 cars the other direction, if that 00:36:12
makes sense. And those are the numbers we use in in in this to identify how a roadway segment is performing. Does that make sense 00:36:19
for intersections? It's based on peak hour delay, so average delay in seconds per vehicle. 00:36:27
Is how we look at that so. 00:36:34
In a second here, we'll see kind of that level of service for existing conditions. So that's what this is We looked at. We took 00:36:38
some several counts throughout the city. We already had many, many counts based on past studies we've done in the city as well. So 00:36:45
we got a good kind of sample size of traffic counts in the city. 00:36:51
On the right side is the map, the numbers, I know they're kind of small, but those are the daily traffic volumes on each Rd. 00:36:59
basically and the colors represent the general level of service of each segment. To highlight a couple things for these existing 00:37:06
conditions, we realize, and I know you've seen it, that there is some congestion on 800 N or Vineyard Connector. Of course, U dot 00:37:14
recently made a change in the lanes over here that I think has helped quite a bit and from what we've seen. 00:37:21
But there is still some congestion, of course, so there'll be kind of a sea condition and AD condition. According to U dot, their 00:37:29
roads are those should be LOSD or better. So this actually fits in their standards as acceptable. So LOSD are better there. 00:37:37
And then down here, you kind of see a yellow behind the number that's LOSC for that Center Street bridge and our public 00:37:46
involvement. We heard a lot about that bridge, how people feel like it is congested going over that towards Mill Rd. So that 00:37:52
that's another spot of congestion, though it is still acceptable for the standard. But you can see here there are lots of 00:37:58
intersections that are at 4 levels of service. There's a few on Geneva. This one at 800 N in Geneva is orange for LOSD. So still 00:38:05
acceptable but congested I think. 00:38:11
Before the lane change, it was probably LOSF, but now with the lane change, it appears it's gotten much better at LOSD or so 00:38:17
anyway. So this is kind of what we look at. The last one I'll mention here would be 600 N and Main Street. It's very hard as you 00:38:24
know for someone to turn left off of 600 N onto Main Street. And so that's something that we'll we'll look at to see if there's 00:38:30
something that we can do there to fix that operation. But yeah, overall this is what what we kind of see today as the existing 00:38:36
conditions. 00:38:42
Roads and intersections. 00:39:19
Yeah. 00:39:22
Yeah. So we had all that put together, the functional class and level of service and intersection controls. And then we were able 00:39:27
to bring some of those maps to a public open house that we had here in Vineyard on April 25th. And we also had a Facebook Live 00:39:33
event the week before on April 18th where we went over the same information that we just went over with all of you. 00:39:38
And in that period, we got 131 responses. You can kind of see the breakdown of the people who responded. So majority of the people 00:40:17
who responded are people who live in Vineyard, but we also include people who work in Vineyard, shop in Vineyard or do other 00:40:22
records activities in Vineyard and there are some overlap there as well. 00:40:28
400 N and Geneva Road and also Center St. and Mill Rd. We heard some people suggesting that we could look into adding another 00:41:20
connection into Vineyard from I-15 and just getting more access to Vineyard from other cities from that way and also Center St. 00:41:26
and Mill Rd. Heavy congestion and just generally safety concerns, getting to and from parks, adding more crosswalks where we can 00:41:32
and improving pedestrian safety. And that goes along with the multimodal stuff that we want to look at as well, making sure 00:41:37
there's good safety and connectivity. 00:41:43
Throughout the city. 00:41:49
And yeah, I think Josh will continue from here. One thing I will say the years you'll see there are a little random if you just 00:42:25
look at them. But the reason we chose those years is for impact fees you have to look at a six to 10 year window from now. So we 00:42:32
chose a 10 year horizon from now to 2033 is the first kind of future year to look at and 2050 is mags future year they're looking 00:42:38
at as well. So that's why we did look at those two. 00:42:45
So future conditions just to kind of give you a glimpse of what we're seeing so far 2033, this is what we expect as of right now 00:42:52
as far as. 00:42:56
Level of service and traffic volumes. So within a 10 year period based on those land use projections from MAG and the local 00:43:02
adjustments we made Vineyard Connector we show going to basically A5 lane capacity or volume in the future, you know 36,000 or so 00:43:09
cars, almost 40,000 cars a day. 00:43:17
On Vineyard Connector, so that would require kind of A5 Lane Rd. There with two lanes per direction, 1 center turn lane to the 00:43:25
north. You can see on the future Vineyard extension those volumes are increasing and the project may be needed up there down here 00:43:31
on Center St. 00:43:37
We expected that volume to grow. That volume will grow on Center St. on the bridge and we may need to do something near there to 00:43:43
increase capacity as well. There's other congestion. You can see some yellow roads, LOSC, those are still acceptable, but 00:43:49
obviously growing in some congestion there. 00:43:55
Phase there and there's a few other spots in the city that we see congestion of course that we want to look at. So these are kind 00:44:37
of the 1st results we're getting back for that future condition and this kind of leads into us knowing what projects we could 00:44:44
potentially look at. Any questions on those at all at this point or? 00:44:50
OK. So looking at potential projects, MAG already has their funded projects that we know are likely to come in in a certain time 00:44:58
period. So we can look at those. We know what we've assumed here. We haven't listed every single new road that a development will 00:45:06
build within their development. We just focus on the major ones for now. And the projects we look at, it includes both 00:45:14
intersection and roadway projects to mitigate that unacceptable Los and we try to phase them by year. 00:45:21
So I have a table here. If you can't tell this is a draft format. I've written it twice on the screen. But these are potential 00:45:29
projects we've talked about. So I'll just kind of look at just kind of go through them really quickly here. So as a phase one 00:45:37
immediate need these, would we put these here to potentially address the 2023 issues. So three of these aren't are on Geneva Road 00:45:45
1600 N, 400 N and Center St. on Geneva Rd. adding capacity in various ways by adding turn lanes. 00:45:52
Or U dot changing signal timing and whatnot. We've learned that. 00:46:00
The rail line on the West side of Geneva is really the physical barrier there. Once that rail is consolidated, U will have many 00:46:08
more options to explore for widening on Geneva if needed or other changes at the intersections. For now their their hands are a 00:46:13
little bit tied with the railroad, but we expect that a lot of these things can be fixed once that rail goes away and is 00:46:18
consolidated there. 00:46:24
You can see here we have 600 N and Main Street showing the crosswalks. Like Jillian said, that's already being worked on by staff, 00:46:31
and that'll be a great addition to have some crosswalks across Main Street there. 00:46:36
In addition to that, you know one thing we'll kind of look at would be maybe an alternate intersection control there. Right now 00:46:42
it's two way stop on the east and West side, but we would maybe consider other things potentially. 00:46:48
You know, whether it's maybe a roundabout or whatever it may be restricting, you know, just doing different things there. And 00:46:56
that's something we don't know the answer yet to yet, but we'll we'll we'll we'll be working on that too. 00:47:02
For a short term need to 203033 and like I said vineyard connector. 00:47:11
Would likely have to go to five lanes between Main Street and Geneva Rd. 00:47:16
Center St. and Mill Rd. We, we expect we need to increase the capacity there by changing maybe some of the lane configuration 00:47:22
there or the signal timing to get more cars through you know during that peak time. 00:47:27
For long term needs, so far what we're looking at would be Vineyard Connector both to the north and to the east would be widening 00:47:34
the three, sorry, the seven lanes there to accommodate the demand. That's mostly due to I would say local development that's 00:47:40
proposed, right. The downtown is a big part of that where they're proposing some densities there. 00:47:46
And the good thing about Vineyard is there's not a lot of cut through traffic, so but the The thing is that this is caused by a 00:47:55
lot of local development of course so. 00:47:59
1600 N we go to five lanes. Like I've already said, that's already in the mag plan as well. 00:48:06
There's an idea for 1200 N to actually extend that over the rail between Venture Connector and Geneva Rd. That would be probably 00:48:12
A5 Lane Rd. going over there. So that would be one idea to take pressure off of Vineyard Connector and other roads too. And then 00:48:18
Main St. in the downtown area, we just want to make sure we have that intersection and that roadway segment wide enough to 00:48:24
accommodate the demand. 00:48:31
There's a couple more here for increasing intersection capacity on Geneva Rd. which like I said you already thinking about and 00:48:38
working on. And then 400 S down there by the Orem Park. We we've, we've talked with staff about that how there's concerns about 00:48:46
the flow of traffic between Geneva Road and Vineyard Rd. by the park. And so at least in the future future condition we would 00:48:53
expect we can widen that segment of Rd. potentially and then make other intersection improvements there as well. 00:49:00
So the next steps we have here would be we want to look at more at the multimodal that the roadway is usually the first step 00:49:09
because that takes the longest to do the modeling. But now that we have that framework, we'll we'll now focus on active 00:49:15
transportation and transit projects as well. And then we'll establish the future functional classification of rows, make sure you 00:49:21
have a good grid network planned out for the future. And we'll we're going to propose some transportation guidelines to be used 00:49:27
like access management guidelines. 00:49:33
Traffic impact studies to make sure you get what you need out of those studies for your future transportation system, traffic 00:49:40
calming, all that. And then we'll then focus on impact fees to look at the costs of those 10 year projects for the impact fees and 00:49:46
we'll calculate the eligibility of those and then we'll identify the impact fee from there. So sorry, there was a lot of 00:49:52
information. We're really excited about this work and we're excited to work in Vineyard. Are there any questions about any of that 00:49:58
we we went over? 00:50:04
And beyond questions, any feedback? Any thoughts you have too? 00:50:14
One I was going to ask it. 00:50:18
Like after our discussion, can we take public questions? 00:50:21
Sorry, I'm not sure it's up to you. Is it being work session? You can ask for public to make comments if they have any okay. 00:50:26
Can you hold your question till okay? I'll let you know. 00:50:36
Earlier, you'd mentioned you were going to talk a little bit more about multimodal transportation. 00:50:41
I didn't see. Yeah, sorry, I meant that we're going to cover that in the plan. We're still, yeah. So the timeline for this is 00:50:47
we're planning to wrap it up by late November, early December before the year wraps up. So like I said, the focus has been so far 00:50:53
on Broadway and traffic modelling for vehicles so far. That's kind of the pinch point on these plans many times. So we want to 00:51:00
make sure we get that out of the way. The modeling takes time and we're happy where we're at now and now we want to take that, 00:51:06
take these robate projects. 00:51:13
And see how we can incorporate multimodal elements. So that would be the next presentation where we come and talk to you about 00:51:20
that as well. So I apologize, we don't have a lot right now. 00:51:24
One thing, I guess one thing I will say, I know there's been even in the public outreach and discussions we've had with staff, you 00:51:29
know some some neighbors within the city talked about well, could you do a pedestrian crossing at 400 N across the rail, you know 00:51:35
to connect the east and West side. So as an example that would be one thing we're going to talk about more and see feasibility and 00:51:42
all that. So that's great. Yeah, the, the other comment I was going to make is. 00:51:49
And we're already kind of cut in half with the rail I think anytime. So you know vendor connector right now the width that it is, 00:51:56
if you widen it, it almost like makes it, it makes it less accessible by anything other than car. And so I want to make sure that 00:52:03
if we've got a walkable downtown, you don't have to drive to get there to walk, right. 00:52:10
And and you can widen the road and still have other modes to get there. So you know trail we've got one hopefully they'll reopen 00:52:19
soon that goes underneath the vineyard connector and other ways that we can do that. So I just wanna make sure that that's part of 00:52:24
the the conversation too and I also wanna make sure that. 00:52:30
We try to get it as close to right the first time because it, you know, it's expensive to widen, but it's also expensive to. 00:52:38
Road diet, right. Like, I think we've kind of discovered that Mill Mill Rd. is not in danger of having any traffic issues any 00:52:45
time, you know, it's a very big Rd. It is, yeah. 00:52:50
And that causes its own problems, but it's under building, right? So. 00:52:57
You know, getting at its close to long term, right As possible, definitely. Yeah, great, great comment. So yeah, OK, can we would 00:53:01
you mind accessing the microphone, Can we get your question? 00:53:09
Introduce yourself and then. 00:53:17
Eileen Erickson in the Sleepy Ridge area. I want to know how you're going to move a railroad. 00:53:20
We all want to know that, OK? 00:53:27
All right, what you were talking about. So if you want to answer, I can. I can answer that one because that's outside his scope. 00:53:31
Cool, cool. 00:53:35
So the works director, so the rails for that he's referring to is the rail spur that goes along Geneva Rd. on the east side of the 00:53:41
city. And we're currently in discussions with Union Pacific in terms of realigning that through Ellsberg along the east part of 00:53:49
the city through the industrial area. So. So the road will be coming down Geneva where 1600 N would be. Are you familiar with 69 N 00:53:57
OK, So what would be where 69 N would be and then then cut W toward out through the. 00:54:06
Vineyards industrial area to South of Almond and then reconnect. 00:54:14
And then that not only are we working on Union Pacific, but we're also working with the Federal Railroad Administration, which is 00:54:53
a federal agency, as well as the Utah dot because as soon as that becomes available, it is cleared like what was presented in this 00:55:00
thing. There's lots of projects that are going to pick up not just with dot, but city Voron has potential projects that they would 00:55:07
like to do as well and but to answer the question. 00:55:15
Your real question about how you remove a railroad one truck at a time. 00:55:23
And if I could add to that too, like like Naseem said, I think that one, one big thing that'll help in your traffic, even though 00:55:28
it's on the Orem side on Center St. once that rail is consolidated, Orem has plans to widen that pinch point east of Geneva on 00:55:34
Center Street where it goes down to two lanes out to five lanes. That'll be huge, I think for both Orem and Vineyard to get out of 00:55:40
the freeway faster so. 00:55:45
OK. Do we have any more questions from Commission or the public? 00:55:54
OK. Thank you so much for coming and presenting those. It's really good to know Foresight. 00:56:02
I loved it. The scene of engineering. 00:56:09
OK. 00:56:14
With that, we can move on to Item 6, Commission members, reports and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 00:56:18
We got anything guys? No, nothing exciting. How about staff? I do have something. Bryce isn't here though, so I mean, it's a 00:56:27
disappointing news. I spoke with Postal Service about a drop off. 00:56:33
They pretty much said no updates. They said it's going through the process, whatever that means. But they, I mean he remembered my 00:56:41
name, so at least. 00:56:45
Yeah, at least that they're thinking about us. At least you know you're haunting him, so yeah. Yeah. 00:56:51
So he asked if there were a lot of people asking me about it. So the more people that do ask me about it, the more honest I can 00:56:58
answer that question as well. All right, you can add me to your list, OK? 00:57:04
Might not be a bad idea but yeah so I'll keep working closely with the Postal Service to get that going. So but yeah he he did say 00:57:12
it's going through the process and they've dropped it off here at the city building so. 00:57:20
OK. Anybody else? 00:57:29
Then this meeting is adjourned. Have a great night, everybody. Thanks for coming. 00:57:33
So. 00:57:42
So. 00:57:46
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