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Welcome everybody. It is November 15th. 00:00:00
It is 6:00 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We will. 00:00:03
Have an invocation. 00:00:09
Pledge of Allegiance by me and then move into it so. 00:00:12
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. 00:00:21
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:28
Our dear Heavenly Father, we're thankful that we could be here today to discuss the things that. 00:00:39
Affect all the citizens of the city. Please bus. This will be inspired as to the things that we should decide on and that I will 00:00:44
make wise decisions. We're thankful for all those that volunteer their time and efforts to making this a great place to live. And 00:00:49
my Father, we love thee and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:54
Alright. 00:01:00
So moving into an open session if you have any comments. 00:01:02
Daria, I think you're the only one here. 00:01:06
Yeah. 00:01:10
Thank you. 00:01:20
I just. 00:01:21
I'm gonna write down other questions. Yeah, yeah. 00:01:39
Instead of building. 00:01:56
And if. 00:01:58
And. 00:02:12
I had. 00:02:14
Schem. 00:02:18
We'll get into the details of all that. 00:02:20
In. 00:02:25
I only see. 00:02:27
And with the problems you. 00:02:32
Giving us access. I don't see that being developed anytime soon and so there won't be any access from Geneva Rd. 00:02:36
I don't think they should go ahead with it until they have. 00:02:48
Egress and ingress and egress. Whatever the in and outs, you know how to get in and out. And also they're asking for a 21 foot 00:02:52
light poles and the code is 20 foot. Why do they need one more foot? 00:02:59
All the time. It seems like every developer is asking for some exception to the rule. 00:03:07
So why can't we? 00:03:14
Keep, you know, keep some standard. So those are some of my questions and I might have more as things go along. Yeah, I do have 00:03:16
one more actually. 00:03:21
The pod work, pod development that's coming along. 00:03:28
That they want to. 00:03:32
Those front units. 00:03:35
What the work in the front? Are they going to have large windows to act as a business window and if those people decide to lease 00:03:37
that unit? 00:03:42
And they don't want it to be a business. 00:03:48
Cars are going to park in front of them. 00:03:50
Or can they use that as their own residential space? 00:03:53
Awesome. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you. 00:03:57
Chair we did. Typically public comment isn't for the items on Janice. So what we can do is when we get to the the the agenda items 00:04:03
we can cover those for the the homesteads which we're asking to be continuing. You get to that, I I can address that. Yep, Yep. 00:04:09
And I'll bring these up just when we get to the agenda items. 00:04:15
All right. If there are no more public comments, we'll just move right into business items. 00:04:23
Do I need to make a motion for the public hearing to be continued? 00:04:29
Yeah, that that that would be a motion and then before you. 00:04:33
Vote on the motion, then I can provide a comment. So get a motion, a second and then I can provide comments. 00:04:38
OK. 00:04:45
Sorry, do I have a motion on that I move to? 00:04:49
Business item 3 point. 00:04:52
Do we need a specific date until it says December 6th 2023 Planning Commission meeting? Do I have? 00:04:54
I'll second. 00:05:02
If there are any comments, then great, thank you. I'll just address a few things before you this item gets moved. So the 00:05:05
applicant, Mike Olson with Home Center Construction is still working on the comments that were received from the public and from 00:05:11
the Commission in the last meeting. And so he's taking it really seriously. He wants to make sure that the street parking is safe. 00:05:17
So he has his engineer that's looking at. 00:05:24
At that he is adding some. He's taken out some of the street parking spaces and adding like landscaped. 00:05:31
Areas that help with with the tree line. He's adding trees on the property side, so they'll be kind of like a double. 00:05:39
Like tree line up on both sides, both on the South and north side of the sidewalk. 00:05:47
And he's also going to have his engineer provide a recommendation as to whether it's safer to do a pollen angled street parking as 00:05:53
opposed to a. 00:05:58
A reverse angled or where you back in. Typically what we found is that's actually a much safer way to do it and it's a little 00:06:03
annoying for for people that wanna park, but it's actually a lot safer because typically when you are back and then you look at 00:06:09
the spot and you know what you're backing into. 00:06:15
And we have cameras and a lot of vehicles and at an angle too, it's it's easier to back into. Plus when you pull out your your 00:06:22
eyes are forward, you're able to see bikes. You're able to see cars. So it's actually a much safer safer type of design but we 00:06:27
have found. 00:06:33
Salt Lake had some. 00:06:39
I think it was the 2nd S redesign and. 00:06:42
People were just complaining, they thought it was annoying, but the but the bike advocacy groups wanted to keep it. So that's 00:06:47
that's one area where they did flip it. So we're going to look at this area and see if it's, you know, we're going to have their 00:06:52
engineer provide a recommendation and work with the Seems team on that. 00:06:58
So that will give us a couple weeks to work out some of those details. 00:07:05
Commissioner Bramwell requested additional parking and I think that was actually after the meeting he kind of mentioned that he'd 00:07:10
like to see that. So I I passed that comment along. 00:07:14
To the to the developer, and they're going to see if they can fit more in. They're going to provide the full context of Pod One, 00:07:19
because there's actually quite a bit of parking that they're adding throughout the development, so the development itself. 00:07:26
Is having quite a bit more parking than what was already entitled under under that pod. 00:07:33
So, yeah, though those are basically that what the priority is going to be for the lip work units, the priority are going to be 00:07:39
for startup businesses and for like small small businesses. So the idea is that. 00:07:45
He'd be able to house your residential lease and your commercial lease under one lease and that makes a lot cheaper as opposed to 00:07:52
having a lease for, you know, your unit you're renting plus having workspace lease. So that's the idea. So the majority of those 00:07:58
are going to be prioritized for, well, all of them are going to be prioritized for for for businesses. 00:08:05
But they can be leased for purely residential. 00:08:13
And so they they would be what he said is it's, it's set up so that they have the higher ceilings they have essentially like that 00:08:18
that large office. So that our office could potentially maybe convert into like a. 00:08:24
Like a small living room or maybe an extra bedroom. 00:08:31
But the the priority is going to be for for businesses and from a design perspective, he could he could set it up with curtains. I 00:08:35
mean there's stuff from the interior that that could be done or even with with the glass. 00:08:42
If they if they wanted more privacy. But the idea is that that bottom level is supposed to provide like offices and. 00:08:49
You know, small, small retail paths. If someone wanted to sell something out there, OK. 00:08:55
Cool. 00:09:01
All right. So all in favor? 00:09:03
Hi. 00:09:06
All right. OK. Moving on to business item 3.2 sine wave sign standard waiver for the Jiffy Lube this. 00:09:09
Great. 00:09:17
OK, perfect. Yeah, this is the sunshine waiver for Jiffy Lube. 00:09:20
Just here's a photo to show the existing conditions. I think they they got the certificate of occupancy last month. They did build 00:09:24
the sign according to the site plan review and their site permit and their sign permit. 00:09:29
And in their application they. 00:09:36
That this box, they didn't really have any control over the location of it and it just happens to be right in front of their. 00:09:40
And their shine currently measures 6 feet. 00:09:48
So this is their proposed plan might help. Did so which came first? Which was installed first? They did not say in their 00:09:51
narrative. 00:09:56
Who's the boss? Yeah. 00:10:01
Yeah. 00:10:03
I just think that might come up. So this is a proposed sign elevation. They just raised it a foot. They have this. 00:10:05
It says 14 inches on here, but it actually just goes up to seven feet. 00:10:13
Extension to allow for that sign to be more visible on Geneva Road to help increase visibility as cars are driving along it to 00:10:17
know where their business is located. This is the only monument sign for their property, they don't have any others. 00:10:25
So yeah, this is just kind of my brief summary of the issue here. 00:10:35
The increase in the height doesn't increase the sine square footage at all just because it is just raising. 00:10:43
And then the sign standard waiver in our code does allow single monument signs in the GRMU to be raised up to 10 feet as needed. 00:10:50
So I don't think the applicant is here tonight, but I can try to answer any questions that you guys may have. 00:10:58
About this do you know why they decided to put it where they put it just because it was in this plans and then yeah yeah. My guess 00:11:04
is they did not see the, I mean they they on their site, they did see that there was an electoral box there, but they didn't know 00:11:08
how tall it was. 00:11:13
And it's just right at the southern portion of their property close to the entrance. 00:11:19
Yeah, the second paragraph in that narrative that she sent says. 00:11:26
When we initially installed the monument sign, we followed the electrical plan provided, which was designed to comply with all 00:11:30
relevant regulations. However, an unforeseen issue arose due to the height of the electrical box situated in proximity to the. 00:11:37
Electrical box is exceptionally tall and obstructs the bottom portion of the monument sign, so I think they knew that the box was 00:11:44
going there. It just ended up what was installed. Ended up being taller than. 00:11:48
What they anticipated. 00:11:53
As far as the material on the bottom, would they be willing to have the rock go all the way up like it is now instead of having a 00:11:58
metal extension? I could reach out to them. We could put that as a condition of approval with the sign standard waiver that they 00:12:04
do continue that that rock all the way up. 00:12:10
OK. 00:12:18
Did anybody have any other questions or does anybody feel strongly about how it's designed? Thanks for confirming that. 00:12:22
The current zoning does allow that height if that if they had approach. 00:12:29
Proposed that initially it would have been within the sign. 00:12:33
Standards correct. Yep. 00:12:37
Yeah, I don't have. 00:12:42
If there are any other questions, do I have a motion? 00:12:44
Yeah. And if you want to just read kind of what that condition would be as part of, you could do conditions in the staff port plus 00:12:49
and then just kind of state if you want to add that as a as a. 00:12:55
Condition. 00:13:02
You can add it as a condition either way. 00:13:04
Whoever decides, yeah, I can make a motion. I move to approve the Science standard waiver application as requested by Ruth Gillies 00:13:07
with Gillies Sign and Design. 00:13:11
With the proposed conditions 1. Applicant pays any outstanding fees and makes any red line corrections to the applicant is subject 00:13:16
to all federal, state and local laws And then a new condition three to continue the stone base up to the base of the sign. 00:13:23
Do I have a second A? 00:13:32
All in. 00:13:34
Aye, aye. 00:13:36
All right, moving on to business item 3.3, the site plan application for McDonald's. 00:13:37
And again, this is cash, yes. 00:13:43
So we do have Darren here with us with the Dominion Engineering and then. 00:13:46
Trevor. 00:13:52
With McDonald's. 00:13:54
A-team's call with us as well, so hopefully they can answer any questions that you guys may have about this site plan. 00:13:56
So I'll just give a brief overview and then afterwards we'll have you just go up to the mic and that way if they have any 00:14:03
questions, we can. 00:14:06
OK, so here's context to the location. McDonald's sits at the corner of 400 N and Geneva Rd. 00:14:11
Here is access to the site, so this is one of the concerns that was brought up. We are currently working with X Development. Who 00:14:21
owns the rest of those lots to do a site plan improvement to put in this road infrastructure that would provide. 00:14:28
Two or more entries into the site and I understand that McNulty has been working with them and that's part of their agreement with 00:14:36
Xdev that they will have two access points into their their property before. 00:14:41
You know any any agreement is made. So we are we are working with Xdev on that right now. 00:14:48
To allow this access to increase the access to. 00:14:53
And sorry, just real quick, the GRMU does describe the northern lots of the GRMU. 00:14:59
Have to have this rear access and so that's why you see it going along, right along the the wall of the Edgewater townhomes. 00:15:05
There, that's the code is very specific in the Road Access Rd. does have to go along that. 00:15:12
As far West as possible there. 00:15:19
So getting into the details of the site and the landscaping. So here's a better image. 00:15:25
The purpose of that is because you don't want it too close to the intersection, yeah, correct. 00:15:32
So here's the site just to kind of go over this. It is kind of a unique. 00:15:41
Way for McDonald's to be operating as you see this drive through, we call the reverse drive through and that it does cut off the 00:15:49
parking there. The reason for that is the the Gru is is specific for this lot that it needs to be the building needs to address 00:15:55
both 400 N and Geneva Road and so it kind of forced this building to be pushed up to the corner as much as possible. 00:16:02
And which did not allow a drive through to. 00:16:10
And so that's why they're going this route and I have a slide later on addressing the drive through how it will operate. Once 00:16:14
again, Darren is has a lot more expertise in this than I do and can hopefully address any questions about that. 00:16:20
Anyways, so the buildings in that corner, we have a lot of landscaping as well up on the northern side it is all no turf or grass, 00:16:27
native vegetation and and trees and plants that meet our our landscaping or our tree and landscaping code. 00:16:34
It does have some outdoor patio seating there in the corner as. 00:16:42
One thing that isn't on the site plan is that we're working with X Development on a entry feature into Vineyard as this is going 00:16:46
to be one of the, you know, main arteries that'll bring people from the freeway and from Orem into Vineyard off of 400 N And so 00:16:53
we're working with X Dev to create that that gateway entry feature in that corner of this lot. That is one of the conditions of 00:17:00
approval that the, the Planning Commission will approve this gateway feature prior to the issuance of a building permit. 00:17:07
So besides that, we do have adequate landscaping along Geneva Road and 400 N. 00:17:15
Adequate landscaping in the parking. I think I have a parking. Oh, I didn't take a breakdown of the parking, but they meet the 00:17:21
code they're they're above the parking code. 00:17:26
For minimum parking on. 00:17:31
Umm. 00:17:34
Let's see, So here's the drive through operations just to go over that real quick. This road back here is is a privately 00:17:36
controlled street. So as you can see with this, it's a double loaded drive through that if it does back up, it will go possibly 00:17:41
into this private St. which which we don't really have any control over. 00:17:47
And so the two lanes will feed into this one lane. And then there are actually 3 windows located on this McDonald's. You have the 00:17:55
the main payment window right here. 00:17:59
To furthest to the West and then you'll have two other windows. One is for orders that are taking a little bit longer. They'll go 00:18:04
all the way to the east. 00:18:08
And then the middle window is kind of a cut that cars can, you know, pick up their food if they, if it's ready sooner. And then 00:18:11
they have this exit lane right here that they can then leave the drive through and it'll speed up. 00:18:18
And then there is as well the I don't know what they're calling them but but parking spaces dedicated to right here for pickup 00:18:25
that if the drive through is taking even longer, cars can go park there and an employee will take them out to there. 00:18:32
And it does have the, the, you know the one downside to this this design is that the the parking lot is split from the building 00:18:40
and so the anybody going from the parking lot to the building does have to cross that drive through. But they have provided an 00:18:46
adequate crossing right here with an improved surface. 00:18:51
And there's an entryway to the building right here, so it's easy access from there. 00:18:59
Here's the site lighting to address another concern that was brought up. The original plan did have 21 foot light poles, but we've 00:19:09
addressed that with the with McDonald's and they have brought them down to 20 feet. 00:19:14
The site lighting shows the the photometrics of what the site will look like with those 20 foot poles. 00:19:21
And as you can see, they're very aware of being next to Edgewater and have made sure that that their lighting is not spilling over 00:19:26
into that property. 00:19:30
As. 00:19:34
So here's some elevations that they've given us and one other unique thing about this, a lot in the code, the GRMU does require 00:19:38
this corner lot to kind of have an elevated appearance as it's supposed to reflect the building to the north, the multi family 00:19:44
building that's being built to the north. 00:19:51
And so they we have worked with them on these elevations to provide us with kind of an increased appearance and a lot more glass 00:19:57
and just better quality materials on the site. 00:20:02
There is one thing I wanted to address on these colored elevations. I just want to show them because they look nicer than the the 00:20:08
schematics here, but on the rear elevation they ended up having to flip some of the materials. 00:20:15
So what you see on the right is what is going to be approved, not on the left, although that's in the colored elevations. 00:20:21
If that makes any. 00:20:28
Here. 00:20:32
Color Board, Materials board for. 00:20:34
Elevations. 00:20:36
So and then here's our proposed motion. 00:20:41
That besides you know the basics, that they pay any outstanding fees, follow the federal, state, local laws, observe all ADA 00:20:44
requirements. 00:20:48
We just wanted to make sure the elevation sheets A2 dated 07/05/23 are the corrected elevations. 00:20:52
All on site lighting will be down lit. We did have some concerns. 00:20:59
These images here you can kind of see some lighting. 00:21:04
And. 00:21:06
We weren't sure if that was down lit or not in the description, so we just want to make sure that that everything was was down 00:21:07
lit. 00:21:10
And then prior to the issuance of a building permit, proper screening of utilities will be submitted to the community development 00:21:14
department for approval. That's one thing we didn't see in their shy is, is how their utilities will be screened and that is a 00:21:19
requirement in the site development. 00:21:23
Section of the code and then the last one is prior conditions of a building per. 00:21:29
An entry feature for the GRMU, located in the northeast corner of the lot, will need to be approved by the Planning Commission. 00:21:33
Should we change that to the proper like approval body? Does the ARCH Commission need to approve that Morgan? 00:21:39
I mean the large Commission could could review but they they're they're they wouldn't be like the actual the Planning Commission 00:21:47
approved site plans but you know because it is our we could take it to them for you know a review and recommendation to y'all 00:21:53
we'll we'll work with the Arch Commission and McDonald's on that so. 00:22:00
So with the enclosure that wasn't submitted with any of this, the trash enclosure, any of that? 00:22:10
It wasn't the trash enclosure. Sorry, that's over here. They did provide the elevation for that and the materials for that met 00:22:17
what it. 00:22:21
I didn't see the materials that are like being used for. 00:22:25
Let me see what I can find for. 00:22:29
OK, there we go that. 00:22:59
The traction closure. 00:23:04
Do you know like the colors or the anything for that? 00:23:06
Darren, do you want to go up to Mike if you have any details on that or I don't know if Trevor has any? 00:23:11
And that the code does require some consistency. Yeah, so in the details here, it does say like the gate here is painted black. 00:23:16
It does say the color of this brick is to match the main building color. Yeah, and that. And that's what I was just gonna OK with 00:23:25
Dominion Engineering, by the way. So yeah, the trash enclosure is a split place. Split face. 00:23:32
They match the material colors from the building and. 00:23:40
Typically as detailed as that specified, but it always matches the building color OK. 00:23:44
And writing. 00:23:52
What's that? Any lighting out there? No, not for the trash enclosure. 00:23:53
And then just to address the. 00:23:59
Drive through. 00:24:03
Flow Were you able? 00:24:05
Put in any kind of signage or anything that would make the flow come into the parking lot and set it out onto the street or. 00:24:08
So we could talk about this drive through. 00:24:15
If you'd like, Cash did an excellent job introducing this drive through. It is a not a typical McDonald's drive through. This is 00:24:20
the reverse drive through. 00:24:24
Which is occasionally used, but it's not the typical that everybody's familiar. 00:24:29
Maybe what I should do is talk about this drive through a little bit. 00:24:34
Is your concern. 00:24:39
Traffic queuing out is that is that OK? Traffic before the many signs so so this drive through. 00:24:41
Is going to be an exceptionally functioning drive through for a McDonald's. It's got a couple of aspects to it that are really 00:24:49
nice. 00:24:53
1st and fore. 00:25:00
Most McDonald's drive throughs are designed with an 8200 foot distance. 00:25:02
From the window to the order points. 00:25:09
And that's usually because that's what the site is constrained to. 00:25:14
We can do one at a 60 foot distance if we're dealing with a very tight sight, but they're not preferred. 00:25:18
That distance is critical, so the distance I'm talking about is from that. 00:25:25
First window right there, Yep. And then the arrows going back to the two order points. That that's a critical distance to 00:25:31
McDonald's. They like to see that. At least 80 foot. Mm-hmm. 00:25:36
Prefer. 00:25:44
The reason they like that longer is the longer that distance, the more time it gives the kitchen staff. 00:25:46
To prepare that order once it's placed because there's more cars. 00:25:53
In that queue. 00:25:58
So on this site, we've gone to the maximum allowed distance. They'll allow distances up to 120, and you've got a ±5 foot on there. 00:26:00
I know this isn't exactly 120, but this is considered 120 foot. 00:26:07
Distance which is the maximum allowed distance which gives the kitchen staff the maximum. 00:26:16
Time to prepare that order once it's placed at the menu board. So in theory, the staff in the kitchen has had more time than on 00:26:21
any other McDonald's to have that food prepared by the time. 00:26:27
The car gets up to the pickup window to pick up their. 00:26:34
That feature alone is going to make this. 00:26:37
Function much better than some of the. 00:26:41
McDonald's drives through Dr. throughs in the area because this is going to have the longest maximum queue. So the owner operators 00:26:44
of a McDonald's that have 120 foot distance they love it because it gives them so much more time to have that food ready because 00:26:49
now you've got. 00:26:54
Potentially up to three more cars. 00:27:00
In that queue than a very short McDonald's drive through, if that makes sense. Yeah, so, So that's the first point that I'd like 00:27:03
to mention as far as queuing because of that long distance beyond the menu boards. 00:27:10
It's going to give the kitchen staff a lot of time for food prep and keep that flow going quite well. 00:27:18
As cars come up to pick up their food, the kitchen staff should have had time to have that food ready to go as soon as they pull 00:27:25
up, so that'll help a lot. 00:27:29
Cash also did describe the. 00:27:34
The third window third. 00:27:38
Uh, maybe Been around for three years now. Two to three years. 00:27:41
McDonald's has been doing the third window, so the majority of customers will come up to that first window, which is the pay 00:27:46
window. 00:27:50
Go to the second window. 00:27:54
Pick up window and they'll pick up their food and leave. That second window is probably going to handle. 00:27:56
90% of the orders, OK, The third window. 00:28:03
Is the delayed order window, you know, that's the. 00:28:08
That's the soccer dad that has the 11 year old girls soccer team and they're going to get their victory shakes and there's nine of 00:28:12
them in the Suburban, you know? 00:28:17
So they go up to that third window. They started the second window, staff asking to pull forward to the third window. The cool 00:28:22
thing about the third window is it's still within the building. 00:28:27
And the kitchen staff can just walk right up this little hallway in the kitchen to the third window and give them their food. 00:28:32
It allows the flow of the drive through to continue working while they're dealing with that large slow order. So that third window 00:28:38
has been very successful on these McDonald's the last couple of years helping keep the flow going. Point is between those two 00:28:43
aspects. 00:28:48
Nice long queue and the third window. 00:28:54
This McDonald's drive through should function quite seamlessly and not have the big long backups that sometimes you see on other 00:28:57
fast food restaurants, so it'll help out significantly. 00:29:02
Beyond that. 00:29:08
A lot of stacking, even beyond the order points, so we're depicting the eight cars there. 00:29:10
Right now, we could actually have depicted 2 more before. 00:29:17
Back down into the street, we just didn't because. 00:29:22
McDonald's does not project even needing the eight cars based on the cells volume that's projected for this site. 00:29:25
So they have a sales volume projection. 00:29:32
Helps them estimate how many cars would be in this queue, and right now they're. 00:29:35
Projections are. 00:29:41
Peak hour, they would have only six cars in the queue, and we're already depicting 8. 00:29:43
Point is, we could have depicted 10. In fact, we could have depicted 17 if we wanted to take cars all the way out to the other 00:29:48
exit. But you know, it's just. 00:29:53
Yeah, that. 00:29:58
Getting carried away, drawing cars on the plant, so we didn't do. 00:30:00
Point is, this site has significant car capacity on it. 00:30:04
Hey Darren, it's Darren, right, Yes. So with so with the construction of this is the hope that. 00:30:11
So will this come in? 00:30:19
I'm assuming before the intersection 400 N and Geneva Rd. gets fixed, so you guys. 00:30:21
Will primarily be serving from 400 N. 00:30:28
And then further down in the site to Geneva Rd. is that correct? Want to maybe explain kind of the timing of, yeah, so so we we've 00:30:31
had McDonald's, not me directly, but McDonald's real estate. 00:30:36
Has been having conversations with X Develop. 00:30:42
We're understanding that this intersection at 4th North and Geneva might be a few years out. Still, obviously McDonald's wants 00:30:47
that for their business model. 00:30:52
So you know, they they would like to see that come in sooner rather than later, but because they have no control over that. 00:30:57
In the meantime, McDonald's agreement with X Develop. 00:31:04
Is that before the McDonald's opens, X development will have that interior access completed. 00:31:09
So that we have that access onto Geneva Rd. McDonald's has no interest in opening a building. 00:31:16
Without an access, so that's the. So you'll have the two the two points of access. I don't know if the North or the I'm going to 00:31:22
tell you. I don't know for sure if the developer is obligated to do both the points of access. 00:31:30
That one plus the one to the east further. 00:31:39
Or if it's just that one and then the one coming in on 4th but the one coming in on 4th. 00:31:42
McDonald's is going to construct that one. So the other one is the one we would be looking at X development. 00:31:49
To provide and. 00:31:56
Not sure if they need to provide both those accesses to the east or just one, I really don't know is. 00:31:57
I'm not directly in that negotiation. My understanding is that they would do the other ones when the when those other pads, the 00:32:02
further down, the further down as those pads developed. 00:32:07
You have the Mr. Car Wash right here that will have the access right here and. 00:32:46
The northern one on the slot, OK. 00:32:51
Wasn't in the development agreement that they could only have so many or was that a U dot kind of thing that they Yeah, that was 00:32:54
the Geneva. 00:32:57
Road access management plan between U dot and Worm and dot. 00:33:03
Yeah. 00:33:08
Any other questions? 00:33:10
I did have one concern with the crosswalk that goes across the drive through. 00:33:14
Preference. 00:33:23
Would be for that to be a raised cross. 00:33:25
For a few reasons, one. 00:33:28
It would function as a speed bump or a speed deterrent for. 00:33:31
Who are leaving the drive through. 00:33:35
And it's also typically more accessible for those who. 00:33:37
Rolling or walking slowly to not have to go down. 00:33:41
I. 00:33:46
Lots of people start pulling away while. 00:33:46
Grabbing their French fries in their bag and I think anything to slow the traffic until they're actually out of the drive through. 00:33:49
Would be great, especially if we anticipate pedestrian traffic. 00:33:55
I have no problem making it more inconvenient for the cars to get out. 00:33:59
To promote safety. 00:34:04
I shouldn't see that that was called. 00:34:10
You know, fun, fun grading plan, but we have made that crosswalk a high point already. OK, so now, so it is going to be the most 00:34:16
elevated portion of that drive through already. But it's like a six inch speed bump, but it is going to be elevated as as the 00:34:23
highest point. So we did that already. 00:34:30
Worked the grading around it so that it drains both sides of it. Because of that still my preference would be that it is. 00:34:38
So you you, you want like the sidewalks to to be at the same elevation as the crosswalk. Yes. I mean without getting into like all 00:34:44
the details and you know, consulting the experts, yes, I would. And you know that would function as. 00:34:51
You would have to take it slow over that. That's, yeah, it's already the South side. They're already at grade, the sidewalk and 00:34:58
the crosswalk. 00:35:02
Are already at grade on the South side. The north side is the only side we even need a ramp to allow. 00:35:07
To raise up, but it would be possible to make that one flush at the North End. 00:35:14
No, I mean, if we did that, you would. 00:35:18
This giant 6 inch hump right there the cars are never going to get over. 00:35:22
That'd be a little too much. 00:35:26
We've already elevated it as we could. We could maybe elevate it one or two more inches, but to try and elevate it 6 inches? 00:35:28
Would be way beyond reasonable. OK, Well then I would say elevate it. We'll see what we can do. We could probably take it up a 00:35:36
couple more inches, but but we've already made it the high point and brought it up. 00:35:42
Trying to accomplish that just with the grading without making a speed bump. We don't want to turn it into a speed bump, but we 00:35:49
could elevate it a little more to make it more obvious. Is there a reason you wouldn't want to turn it into a speed bump? 00:35:55
Yeah, because it's a. 00:36:02
Yeah. 00:36:04
That promotes slow, safe traffic is what I'm what I'm shooting for. 00:36:06
I'm not. I am not concerned about. 00:36:14
Not being able to go fast in this area. I want them to go slow in this area. No, I understand. It's just, you know, we've. 00:36:19
Halfway what you're suggesting. 00:36:28
I think we might be able to take it up a little bit without making it an onerous thing. That would be my strength, That's what I'm 00:36:32
saying. 00:36:35
Yeah. 00:36:39
So yeah, well, we'll start typing up a condition that, but essentially it would be that. 00:36:42
That Darren's group or that you know the developer work with our city engineering. 00:36:48
Division. 00:36:55
Have the to enhance the crosswalk. 00:36:56
And to look at raising it so we because. 00:37:02
We don't necessarily want to say it's going to be absolutely flush with the sidewalk on either side, but I think we understand 00:37:06
your intent. 00:37:10
And we can kind of work towards that, Yeah. So we exactly we can make it. 00:37:14
More like described here, but to try and. 00:37:20
6 inches up to be flush with the patio. 00:37:23
Going to be a little, not be a pleasant driving experience, yeah. 00:37:27
Yeah. 00:37:32
And I and if I'm trading a pleasant driving experience for a pleasant walking experience, I know which way I'm going. That's all 00:37:32
I'm going to say. Yeah. I mean, the intent is people, as soon as they get the food, they're not slamming on the gas and, yeah, 00:37:37
tearing out of there at the sidewalk itself or the crosswalk. 00:37:41
Is a little bit raised. I get what we're trying to do and we can do something, yeah, we can absolutely do something to make it 00:37:47
better. 00:37:50
OK. 00:37:55
Any other questions? I think that was. 00:37:57
Yeah. 00:38:01
Everything I had. Did you guys have any questions? I just wanted? 00:38:02
Voiced my support for Anthony. 00:38:07
I do. There, I don't. We don't need it to be the full 6 inches, but enough to. 00:38:10
Really make people stop and think and. 00:38:15
I. 00:38:20
Wanted to reiterate Anthonys point that. 00:38:21
Those members of our community who are disabled, the less ramping up they have to do, the easier it is for them to access the 00:38:25
restaurant. This will create additional ramping to do this. 00:38:31
Just so you know. OK. 00:38:37
Like to go from? 00:38:39
Well, it's already nice and flush. Right now it's ideal. 00:38:43
So now we'll have to put a ramp on both sides. 00:38:49
We'll have to have a ramp coming down on the South side to accomplish what's being described. 00:38:52
But the sidewalk wouldn't be flush with the asphalt. 00:38:58
Now, the sidewalk could be higher, right? So if it's flush with the sidewalk to sidewalk, then you're up higher than the asphalt, 00:39:01
yes, but we have to bring that sidewalk down to the handicapped parking stalls. 00:39:07
So the only way to do that is to add a ramp on the South side. OK, I see you. 00:39:12
So doing this is going to require additional handicap ramps, yes. 00:39:19
How are they getting in care? 00:39:23
They're flush right now. 00:39:24
To the handicapped spots. 00:39:29
Ramp down to it so that it's flush with the asphalt once it gets down there. 00:39:31
So here he's saying he's going to have to R. 00:39:36
To get to this crosswalk. 00:39:39
In order for. 00:39:42
Started going to have to R. 00:39:46
There is that, yeah. And right now I'm not even sure how we're going to pull it off. To tell you the truth, it looks problematic 00:39:50
to try and do a ramp on the South side. 00:39:54
But we'll see what we can come up well under the condition we have, we have kind of an intent I put put into the condition as 00:39:59
well. And so like to that end you can work with our, our public works exactly. We'll do what we can do with engineering and bring 00:40:06
it up as much as, Yeah, because we want to we want this to be like something that. 00:40:12
This amenable for everybody and. 00:40:19
Create more hardship. 00:40:22
Members of the community as well, right? And you know, like a McDonald's at the play place, you'd want to be able to say. 00:40:24
Hey, could my 12 year old walk from the parking lot into McDonald's safely without an adult holding their hand? You know? 00:40:30
It'd be nice if we build it as safe as possible. I just know that my mom's going, my mom is disabled and she will be driving from 00:40:38
my complex right next to it, to the McDonald's and then having to walk. 00:40:43
Into the into the building with my children. So I was thinking like, OK. 00:40:50
With that perspective, yes, I want this to be a safe crosswalk and be something that she's actually able to use. 00:40:56
So. 00:41:05
If we can accomplish that with staff, that would be really great and ideal. And I appreciate. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, we'll 00:41:06
we'll see what we can do to bring it up. Cool. 00:41:10
Any other? 00:41:19
Brad, did you have anything? 00:41:21
Daria, is there something? 00:41:24
If there are no other questions, would somebody like to make a motion? 00:41:28
Yeah, before we before we make a motion. 00:41:35
You had captured some of the language, is that right? Would you mind reading that? Yeah. So I can just go over each of these 00:41:38
conditions and that way you can just approve it. 00:41:43
So its applicant will pay any outstanding fees. The applicant is subject to all federal, state and local laws. The applicant must 00:41:48
observe all ADA requirements. The elevation sheets A2 dated O seven O 523 are the corrected elevations. All site lighting will be 00:41:53
down. 00:41:58
Applicant will work with the Public Works Department to enhance the height of the drive through crosswalk for the purpose of 00:42:04
slowing traffic enhancing and enhancing the safety of the pedestrian for pedestrians. 00:42:09
Have. 00:42:15
And then prior to the issuance of billing permit, proper screening of utilities will be submitted to the Community Development 00:42:18
Department for approval. And prior to the issuance of a building permit and entry feature for the GRMU located in the northeast 00:42:22
corner of the lot will need to be approved by the Planning Commission. 00:42:27
For motion. And we could, we could send that through Arch as well, but we don't need to put that in the condition. We'll just 00:42:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for being open to the conversation. I think. Yeah, everyone wants to prioritize safety and accessibility. 00:42:41
But yeah, I can. 00:42:48
A motion I move. 00:42:50
Approve this site plan application for McDonald's with the stated conditions by staff. 00:42:53
Thanks, Anthony. Do I have a second? 00:43:00
And spread all in favor, aye? 00:43:02
Right. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. All right. Moving on to 3.4, the 2024 calendar. 00:43:05
Has everybody looked at the calendar to? 00:43:15
It looked fine to me. 00:43:20
As far as holidays and stuff go, I didn't see anything. Is there anything that stood out to you guys that might be a conflict? 00:43:24
Obviously the one in December is missing and the one in July is missing. 00:43:28
Just because they're close to Christmas and the 4th of July. 00:43:33
Yeah, it looked good. And then we can. 00:43:37
As that comes up. 00:43:41
Right. Do I have a motion? 00:43:44
Move to approve. 00:43:49
Calendar for 2024 is presented by staff. Do I have a second? 00:43:51
A second All in favor? Aye? All right, moving on to 3.5, the 2024 Chair and Vice Chair elections. 00:43:55
All right. So we do this every year. Who is going to be here next year kind of thing? 00:44:04
We also will have the meeting December 6th because I I think right now. 00:44:10
We're missing, Chris, and I know that we're we're actually down, I think. 00:44:16
Two or three members of our Planning Commission with Anthony also leaving. So you could still vote, it's up to you. If you wanted 00:44:21
to you could wait till the 6th January until we have all the members because technically any alternates. I think Pam wants it 00:44:28
published before the New year, so that. 00:44:34
We can do it either way. We can talk to her, but OK, yeah, so the one way we could do it is we will be getting. 00:44:42
More planning commissioners in January, most likely. So we could talk to Pam to see if it's something we could do the elections. 00:44:49
The first meeting is the first item in January. 00:44:54
Or we can postpone to December to the first meeting in December. 00:45:00
For this. 00:45:04
I'm OK with today or the. 00:45:08
I. 00:45:11
It's probably going to be me. 00:45:14
And I just need to have a reliable vice chair at that point if. 00:45:17
Because of my work schedule and kids, I can. 00:45:24
Always 100% guarantee. 00:45:27
Do we know if Chris will be here next time? 00:45:31
I don't know. I would assume that he is it was last time and also we have a lot of alternates that haven't. We have alternates 00:45:34
that haven't been put on the Commission yet. So it might be good to. 00:45:40
Wait until January or until December 6th. 00:45:48
Let's Yeah, do I move for that? 00:45:51
Do. 00:45:56
Vote to move. 00:45:57
No, it's not a public area. Perfect. Can we continue that next time? And yeah, we'll put it back on. You don't even need to 00:46:00
continue. It'll be on. If it was a public hearing, like the our first one, then we have to continue it. So yeah, cool. 00:46:07
Cooks and maybe, maybe Chris is just suddenly very available. 00:46:14
Right. OK, cool. Moving on to a Commission member is reports and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 00:46:18
Anything to disclose? Well, I guess before we get to that, this may very well be Anthony's last meeting, that's true. 00:46:26
Sucks. I just booked a work trip for the first week of December, so I will not be here on the 6th. 00:46:33
So personally, I just wanted to say thank you, Anthony. Like without having you on the Commission, we would. 00:46:40
Miss a lot of things. I feel like it's awesome having you on the Commission, having your views as far as biking goes and 00:46:46
pedestrian access and having walkable things has been. 00:46:51
Incredibly important to the planning of. 00:46:56
And yeah, I just want to say thanks. Thanks. 00:46:58
Any other Commission member report an ex parte discussion or disclosure. 00:47:05
Anything from. 00:47:12
Yeah. I want to just say thank you to Anthony. 00:47:14
Freaking rock star. He was so instrumental. When I came out I was the first like full time planner that the city had and Anthony 00:47:17
was incredible. Helped me understand the code. Just help me understand the procedures and the developments going on. 00:47:24
You've worked on everything from our first trails plan, all the getting the first general plan adopt adopted. 00:47:31
We go back to when we were meeting in the building water. So yeah we're meeting in the in the the building that used to be a 00:47:39
chicken shed and you know like the old farmer you still live in there. But yeah I mean you've done so much and and have led by by 00:47:45
example from the the Bicycle Advisory Commission just to I I just go on and on and. 00:47:52
I remember one time something that's always stuck with me and kind of changed the way that I've done my planning is you shared 00:47:58
with me kind of the some of your insight you you gather of the community is is from doing daily bike rides. 00:48:05
And I thought was really interesting, you kind of explained that you just get a different perspective when you're on a bike as 00:48:12
compared to when you're when you're riding a car. And so you're just able to see it at a much more human level. And so that that's 00:48:17
something that I, I try to incorporate not every day, but you know we it's it's something as a planner that I've learned you know 00:48:22
from you that. 00:48:27
You should understand your city from from more than just driving. You know more than just walking biking. Like try to understand 00:48:33
from from all all users and anyway that I you know just really grateful for your service and. 00:48:40
Seriously. You're gonna be you're gonna be really messed. So I guess you you have a year break and then they can put you back on. 00:48:46
I'll still be involved with the the bike advisory Committee too. Yeah. But you're still on the the BAC. But thank you for your 00:48:52
service. Really appreciate you. Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks. 00:48:57
Anything else from? 00:49:09
Patrick has something he would like so this is I I guess it would be kind of a Naseem and and my thing we have been working with. 00:49:16
Members of the preserve community that have been interested in making a connection on the North East portion of their development 00:49:28
to the Vineyard Connector Trail. That'll be along the trail because right now it requires a really long walk to to to go around 00:49:34
and that would give them direct access that they want to get to the train station via Main Street or the trail that goes under 00:49:40
under the. 00:49:46
Under the the bridge, the overpass and so we're we're working to you know to hopefully be able to secure that but that that should 00:49:53
be a really great. 00:49:57
Connection to the people in that. 00:50:02
If you want to add the. 00:50:05
You can see me into work by the works director now. Yeah, we're also, as you can see, there's crews out there installing the 00:50:15
crosswalk flashers. 00:50:19
Along. 00:50:24
600 N. 00:50:26
It'll be a 600 N, 404 hundred S Excuse me. 00:50:29
And Center St. and also with the other ones coming online, would be by 400 N by the Juarez Edge clubhouse area, Bridgeport section 00:50:33
and then Grove Park as well. 00:50:39
So those flashes the components of the flashers. 00:50:47
You know, they're they're hard to get long order and so forth. So we're making sure that we put up the priority ones 1st. And then 00:50:50
we also have another order of flashers coming in to finish up the by the Grove Park and also potentially by the mid block crossing 00:50:56
at the clubhouse. But they'll be online, they'll be great. 00:51:02
And then I haven't told the planners yet, but they'll have the, we'll have a wireless feature on there. So we can actually see how 00:51:10
many times those buttons get pushed in that and then it's actually utilized. So we'll see cash going there pressing the button 00:51:14
like 15 times. 00:51:18
Yeah, get your numbers up. That's right. And then of course our school zone flashers will actually have the same. 00:51:24
Connected that connectivity as well. So we'll have our school flashers up and then we'll have some good connectivity to make sure, 00:51:29
mostly on the maintenance side to make sure that. 00:51:33
This. 00:51:37
Reduce schools, reduce speed, School zones, flashers are working properly and that. 00:51:38
For example, snow gets on the solar panels and loses power will be notified by the way that something is not working. 00:51:46
Right. So we're pushing forward to get a lot of enhancing a lot of stuff and then the trail by. 00:51:52
Waterfront. The waterfront, Yeah. The Waterfront Trail. The Lakefront Trail just north of Penny Springs Park. There we go. 00:52:00
Sunset Beach. 00:52:08
Recently, he's been repaired. 00:52:11
The contractor and the county. 00:52:15
And enhanced by the city. 00:52:17
With. 00:52:21
So yeah, well as well say enhanced. That's a nice word to say, but it's been enhanced by the city with, without, with a with a 00:52:23
proper grain to allow the water to flow off. 00:52:28
On there. 00:52:33
Public works technicians and operators. 00:52:35
And engineers, and sometimes planners, are doing a lot to make sure that the city stays accessible to. 00:52:38
OK, for every mile that Morgan walks, I drive 5. 00:52:46
Real quick, well just while we're talking about trails and with the Homesteads development building their trail on the north side 00:52:58
of there is to connect to the trail. Are there any plans yet for the trail that's going to continue along Holdaway Road and also? 00:53:06
For replacing the sidewalk with trails on Center St. 00:53:14
Are there any plans yet for that? 00:53:20
So I'm not sure about the sidewalks for, I'm sorry, assuming the Republic Works driver, I'm not sure about the sidewalks for 00:53:30
Center St. along. They would have to be placed on the Northside. 00:53:34
On that and. 00:53:39
That we can have that discussion in terms of putting that into our. 00:53:42
Long term master plans in terms of construction, I'm sure it was in there. I just never, you know, I don't look at those master. 00:53:46
You call. 00:53:52
No, but yeah, I'm sure we can get like said, we had the discussion and work with it. I'll work, I'll talk, we'll work with Morgan 00:53:53
and his team. 00:53:57
Excuse me, the trail access. 00:54:02
From Pod One, the home center coming up north. 00:54:06
Umm. 00:54:12
To. 00:54:12
The contractor, yeah, the contractor will be building that trail to further connectivity. 00:54:15
And then it'll be and then we'll have the access to be mainly across the street along South of Center St. There's really not much 00:54:21
room. 00:54:25
To do I to make to make that any water as it is, we're actually looking at the. 00:54:30
Entrance into Gammon. 00:54:37
Where the current. 00:54:40
With the current pedestrian refuge is currently also when people come S on pedestrian refuge to go into Grove Park. 00:54:43
We acknowledge that there is really no good way of doing it to except for going on to Holdaway Rd. 00:54:50
And then back into the park. So we're we're go to see what we can do to make it like. 00:54:57
In north facing entrance into Gammon Park. 00:55:04
And then a trail system that goes into Holloway Rd. that's been on discussion or excuse me connectivity onto all the way where 00:55:08
that's a discussion that Morgan and I have with the developer. 00:55:13
To to make that happen, I know that. 00:55:18
And agree in agreement to push that further further forward. 00:55:22
On that, but to make to complete a trail down holdaway. 00:55:26
There are. There is going there. There's going to be quite a few areas where we'll have. 00:55:31
Get some additional property and access points to create that. Quite honestly and as well looking at. 00:55:39
I don't think we'll be able to get like a traditional like 10 foot trail. I doubt we'll even get 8 foot trail. But I think that's 00:55:46
like a sidewalk, like more, more so like a 5 foot sidewalk would occur at that time. It would. I'm sure that would be a great 00:55:52
project for us too when we get some connectivity from that park. 00:55:57
Yeah, exactly. When we get some connectivity from the East side onto Holloway Rd. that would be a great time for us to have some 00:56:03
discussions with the homeowners. I'm on there to, you know, tell them what we're doing and also the areas where we don't, where 00:56:08
the city doesn't have. 00:56:12
Wide enough right away to work with those home. 00:56:17
Gain that right away so we can make put those sidewalks onto the right away. It's important to have sidewalks on public right away 00:56:22
versus on private property. One allows access for everyone to utilize that and then there's also a liability the sidewalks on 00:56:26
private property. 00:56:31
If something trips and falls to happen. 00:56:36
And it protects the homeowners. 00:56:39
Being on that lawsuit, that tends to get sent out. 00:56:41
Yep. 00:56:46
Yeah. 00:56:52
And there's also a trail connecting from the West as well eventually, right? 00:57:00
The the trails map, you can correct me if I'm wrong the same, but I believe this comes in. It's like that the corridor plan shows 00:57:13
a connection somewhere through here. So Yep. 00:57:18
So that's what he was talking about. We'll have to workout with the, you know, the property owners, the home center, construction 00:57:24
and then. 00:57:27
I think the same as this, the other one you're talking to, making that connection into the park, yeah. And then making that 00:57:30
extension to. 00:57:33
Yeah. Oh, yeah. 00:57:42
And then just. 00:57:48
I feel like there's a lot of places in the city where it. 00:57:51
You're on a big trail and it's nice, and then it narrows down to a sidewalk. 00:57:54
A section and then it's back to a trail and it's like, it would be cool. 00:57:58
Have our trails like fully connect. 00:58:03
Probably would do those as we replace you know sidewalks if if we you know. 00:58:06
You know, we most likely probably wouldn't go in and rip up like a good side just because of the cost of it. But as we do 00:58:13
replacements and you know, instead of rebuilding the sidewalk, we'd go with the trail and just keep keep the trail with. 00:58:19
Unless there's like some real priorities areas if you know if you see areas there's like we got a trailer you know I I would bring 00:58:26
that tendencies attention we could look at that OK, just just as someone that comes from. 00:58:32
The Southwest. 00:58:38
There's no way to connect with just trails. 00:58:40
Grove Park, for example you. 00:58:44
Move to narrower sidewalks. 00:58:47
You have to go through Gammon Park, which the trails are all torn up there and those were sidewalks too. So it would be it would 00:58:49
just be cool to be able to travel on just trails throughout the city. Feel like it's a lot safer for the kids. Yeah, I think 00:58:54
that's the kind of the the. 00:58:58
Long range plan is. 00:59:03
Hopefully connect all those nodes with with good trail system. What is the update on the sidewalk for Vineyard Connector Rd. 00:59:05
We've had the conversation before about where the overpass is on the South side making the connection to Mill Rd. is that we're 00:59:21
talking about? 00:59:25
That gap area where where UV. 00:59:29
We'll have to have a discussion with you specifically on that. So yeah, we haven't had, we haven't had discussion with you dot or 00:59:33
EVU in terms of magnet finishing that connection. Thanks for that. We've had a couple of residents that ask about that so. 00:59:39
Yeah, I know in the Morgan speak more about that and I know you UV has been pushing forward on. 00:59:46
We doing their master plan. I think this is since I've been here for 2 1/2 years. It's the third time. 00:59:52
OK if there's nothing else. 01:00:00
And meeting Adj. 01:00:03
You're laughed. Maybe, man, it's bad. 01:00:09
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Welcome everybody. It is November 15th. 00:00:00
It is 6:00 PM and this is the Vineyard Planning Commission meeting. We will. 00:00:03
Have an invocation. 00:00:09
Pledge of Allegiance by me and then move into it so. 00:00:12
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands. 00:00:21
One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:28
Our dear Heavenly Father, we're thankful that we could be here today to discuss the things that. 00:00:39
Affect all the citizens of the city. Please bus. This will be inspired as to the things that we should decide on and that I will 00:00:44
make wise decisions. We're thankful for all those that volunteer their time and efforts to making this a great place to live. And 00:00:49
my Father, we love thee and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. 00:00:54
Alright. 00:01:00
So moving into an open session if you have any comments. 00:01:02
Daria, I think you're the only one here. 00:01:06
Yeah. 00:01:10
Thank you. 00:01:20
I just. 00:01:21
I'm gonna write down other questions. Yeah, yeah. 00:01:39
Instead of building. 00:01:56
And if. 00:01:58
And. 00:02:12
I had. 00:02:14
Schem. 00:02:18
We'll get into the details of all that. 00:02:20
In. 00:02:25
I only see. 00:02:27
And with the problems you. 00:02:32
Giving us access. I don't see that being developed anytime soon and so there won't be any access from Geneva Rd. 00:02:36
I don't think they should go ahead with it until they have. 00:02:48
Egress and ingress and egress. Whatever the in and outs, you know how to get in and out. And also they're asking for a 21 foot 00:02:52
light poles and the code is 20 foot. Why do they need one more foot? 00:02:59
All the time. It seems like every developer is asking for some exception to the rule. 00:03:07
So why can't we? 00:03:14
Keep, you know, keep some standard. So those are some of my questions and I might have more as things go along. Yeah, I do have 00:03:16
one more actually. 00:03:21
The pod work, pod development that's coming along. 00:03:28
That they want to. 00:03:32
Those front units. 00:03:35
What the work in the front? Are they going to have large windows to act as a business window and if those people decide to lease 00:03:37
that unit? 00:03:42
And they don't want it to be a business. 00:03:48
Cars are going to park in front of them. 00:03:50
Or can they use that as their own residential space? 00:03:53
Awesome. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you. 00:03:57
Chair we did. Typically public comment isn't for the items on Janice. So what we can do is when we get to the the the agenda items 00:04:03
we can cover those for the the homesteads which we're asking to be continuing. You get to that, I I can address that. Yep, Yep. 00:04:09
And I'll bring these up just when we get to the agenda items. 00:04:15
All right. If there are no more public comments, we'll just move right into business items. 00:04:23
Do I need to make a motion for the public hearing to be continued? 00:04:29
Yeah, that that that would be a motion and then before you. 00:04:33
Vote on the motion, then I can provide a comment. So get a motion, a second and then I can provide comments. 00:04:38
OK. 00:04:45
Sorry, do I have a motion on that I move to? 00:04:49
Business item 3 point. 00:04:52
Do we need a specific date until it says December 6th 2023 Planning Commission meeting? Do I have? 00:04:54
I'll second. 00:05:02
If there are any comments, then great, thank you. I'll just address a few things before you this item gets moved. So the 00:05:05
applicant, Mike Olson with Home Center Construction is still working on the comments that were received from the public and from 00:05:11
the Commission in the last meeting. And so he's taking it really seriously. He wants to make sure that the street parking is safe. 00:05:17
So he has his engineer that's looking at. 00:05:24
At that he is adding some. He's taken out some of the street parking spaces and adding like landscaped. 00:05:31
Areas that help with with the tree line. He's adding trees on the property side, so they'll be kind of like a double. 00:05:39
Like tree line up on both sides, both on the South and north side of the sidewalk. 00:05:47
And he's also going to have his engineer provide a recommendation as to whether it's safer to do a pollen angled street parking as 00:05:53
opposed to a. 00:05:58
A reverse angled or where you back in. Typically what we found is that's actually a much safer way to do it and it's a little 00:06:03
annoying for for people that wanna park, but it's actually a lot safer because typically when you are back and then you look at 00:06:09
the spot and you know what you're backing into. 00:06:15
And we have cameras and a lot of vehicles and at an angle too, it's it's easier to back into. Plus when you pull out your your 00:06:22
eyes are forward, you're able to see bikes. You're able to see cars. So it's actually a much safer safer type of design but we 00:06:27
have found. 00:06:33
Salt Lake had some. 00:06:39
I think it was the 2nd S redesign and. 00:06:42
People were just complaining, they thought it was annoying, but the but the bike advocacy groups wanted to keep it. So that's 00:06:47
that's one area where they did flip it. So we're going to look at this area and see if it's, you know, we're going to have their 00:06:52
engineer provide a recommendation and work with the Seems team on that. 00:06:58
So that will give us a couple weeks to work out some of those details. 00:07:05
Commissioner Bramwell requested additional parking and I think that was actually after the meeting he kind of mentioned that he'd 00:07:10
like to see that. So I I passed that comment along. 00:07:14
To the to the developer, and they're going to see if they can fit more in. They're going to provide the full context of Pod One, 00:07:19
because there's actually quite a bit of parking that they're adding throughout the development, so the development itself. 00:07:26
Is having quite a bit more parking than what was already entitled under under that pod. 00:07:33
So, yeah, though those are basically that what the priority is going to be for the lip work units, the priority are going to be 00:07:39
for startup businesses and for like small small businesses. So the idea is that. 00:07:45
He'd be able to house your residential lease and your commercial lease under one lease and that makes a lot cheaper as opposed to 00:07:52
having a lease for, you know, your unit you're renting plus having workspace lease. So that's the idea. So the majority of those 00:07:58
are going to be prioritized for, well, all of them are going to be prioritized for for for businesses. 00:08:05
But they can be leased for purely residential. 00:08:13
And so they they would be what he said is it's, it's set up so that they have the higher ceilings they have essentially like that 00:08:18
that large office. So that our office could potentially maybe convert into like a. 00:08:24
Like a small living room or maybe an extra bedroom. 00:08:31
But the the priority is going to be for for businesses and from a design perspective, he could he could set it up with curtains. I 00:08:35
mean there's stuff from the interior that that could be done or even with with the glass. 00:08:42
If they if they wanted more privacy. But the idea is that that bottom level is supposed to provide like offices and. 00:08:49
You know, small, small retail paths. If someone wanted to sell something out there, OK. 00:08:55
Cool. 00:09:01
All right. So all in favor? 00:09:03
Hi. 00:09:06
All right. OK. Moving on to business item 3.2 sine wave sign standard waiver for the Jiffy Lube this. 00:09:09
Great. 00:09:17
OK, perfect. Yeah, this is the sunshine waiver for Jiffy Lube. 00:09:20
Just here's a photo to show the existing conditions. I think they they got the certificate of occupancy last month. They did build 00:09:24
the sign according to the site plan review and their site permit and their sign permit. 00:09:29
And in their application they. 00:09:36
That this box, they didn't really have any control over the location of it and it just happens to be right in front of their. 00:09:40
And their shine currently measures 6 feet. 00:09:48
So this is their proposed plan might help. Did so which came first? Which was installed first? They did not say in their 00:09:51
narrative. 00:09:56
Who's the boss? Yeah. 00:10:01
Yeah. 00:10:03
I just think that might come up. So this is a proposed sign elevation. They just raised it a foot. They have this. 00:10:05
It says 14 inches on here, but it actually just goes up to seven feet. 00:10:13
Extension to allow for that sign to be more visible on Geneva Road to help increase visibility as cars are driving along it to 00:10:17
know where their business is located. This is the only monument sign for their property, they don't have any others. 00:10:25
So yeah, this is just kind of my brief summary of the issue here. 00:10:35
The increase in the height doesn't increase the sine square footage at all just because it is just raising. 00:10:43
And then the sign standard waiver in our code does allow single monument signs in the GRMU to be raised up to 10 feet as needed. 00:10:50
So I don't think the applicant is here tonight, but I can try to answer any questions that you guys may have. 00:10:58
About this do you know why they decided to put it where they put it just because it was in this plans and then yeah yeah. My guess 00:11:04
is they did not see the, I mean they they on their site, they did see that there was an electoral box there, but they didn't know 00:11:08
how tall it was. 00:11:13
And it's just right at the southern portion of their property close to the entrance. 00:11:19
Yeah, the second paragraph in that narrative that she sent says. 00:11:26
When we initially installed the monument sign, we followed the electrical plan provided, which was designed to comply with all 00:11:30
relevant regulations. However, an unforeseen issue arose due to the height of the electrical box situated in proximity to the. 00:11:37
Electrical box is exceptionally tall and obstructs the bottom portion of the monument sign, so I think they knew that the box was 00:11:44
going there. It just ended up what was installed. Ended up being taller than. 00:11:48
What they anticipated. 00:11:53
As far as the material on the bottom, would they be willing to have the rock go all the way up like it is now instead of having a 00:11:58
metal extension? I could reach out to them. We could put that as a condition of approval with the sign standard waiver that they 00:12:04
do continue that that rock all the way up. 00:12:10
OK. 00:12:18
Did anybody have any other questions or does anybody feel strongly about how it's designed? Thanks for confirming that. 00:12:22
The current zoning does allow that height if that if they had approach. 00:12:29
Proposed that initially it would have been within the sign. 00:12:33
Standards correct. Yep. 00:12:37
Yeah, I don't have. 00:12:42
If there are any other questions, do I have a motion? 00:12:44
Yeah. And if you want to just read kind of what that condition would be as part of, you could do conditions in the staff port plus 00:12:49
and then just kind of state if you want to add that as a as a. 00:12:55
Condition. 00:13:02
You can add it as a condition either way. 00:13:04
Whoever decides, yeah, I can make a motion. I move to approve the Science standard waiver application as requested by Ruth Gillies 00:13:07
with Gillies Sign and Design. 00:13:11
With the proposed conditions 1. Applicant pays any outstanding fees and makes any red line corrections to the applicant is subject 00:13:16
to all federal, state and local laws And then a new condition three to continue the stone base up to the base of the sign. 00:13:23
Do I have a second A? 00:13:32
All in. 00:13:34
Aye, aye. 00:13:36
All right, moving on to business item 3.3, the site plan application for McDonald's. 00:13:37
And again, this is cash, yes. 00:13:43
So we do have Darren here with us with the Dominion Engineering and then. 00:13:46
Trevor. 00:13:52
With McDonald's. 00:13:54
A-team's call with us as well, so hopefully they can answer any questions that you guys may have about this site plan. 00:13:56
So I'll just give a brief overview and then afterwards we'll have you just go up to the mic and that way if they have any 00:14:03
questions, we can. 00:14:06
OK, so here's context to the location. McDonald's sits at the corner of 400 N and Geneva Rd. 00:14:11
Here is access to the site, so this is one of the concerns that was brought up. We are currently working with X Development. Who 00:14:21
owns the rest of those lots to do a site plan improvement to put in this road infrastructure that would provide. 00:14:28
Two or more entries into the site and I understand that McNulty has been working with them and that's part of their agreement with 00:14:36
Xdev that they will have two access points into their their property before. 00:14:41
You know any any agreement is made. So we are we are working with Xdev on that right now. 00:14:48
To allow this access to increase the access to. 00:14:53
And sorry, just real quick, the GRMU does describe the northern lots of the GRMU. 00:14:59
Have to have this rear access and so that's why you see it going along, right along the the wall of the Edgewater townhomes. 00:15:05
There, that's the code is very specific in the Road Access Rd. does have to go along that. 00:15:12
As far West as possible there. 00:15:19
So getting into the details of the site and the landscaping. So here's a better image. 00:15:25
The purpose of that is because you don't want it too close to the intersection, yeah, correct. 00:15:32
So here's the site just to kind of go over this. It is kind of a unique. 00:15:41
Way for McDonald's to be operating as you see this drive through, we call the reverse drive through and that it does cut off the 00:15:49
parking there. The reason for that is the the Gru is is specific for this lot that it needs to be the building needs to address 00:15:55
both 400 N and Geneva Road and so it kind of forced this building to be pushed up to the corner as much as possible. 00:16:02
And which did not allow a drive through to. 00:16:10
And so that's why they're going this route and I have a slide later on addressing the drive through how it will operate. Once 00:16:14
again, Darren is has a lot more expertise in this than I do and can hopefully address any questions about that. 00:16:20
Anyways, so the buildings in that corner, we have a lot of landscaping as well up on the northern side it is all no turf or grass, 00:16:27
native vegetation and and trees and plants that meet our our landscaping or our tree and landscaping code. 00:16:34
It does have some outdoor patio seating there in the corner as. 00:16:42
One thing that isn't on the site plan is that we're working with X Development on a entry feature into Vineyard as this is going 00:16:46
to be one of the, you know, main arteries that'll bring people from the freeway and from Orem into Vineyard off of 400 N And so 00:16:53
we're working with X Dev to create that that gateway entry feature in that corner of this lot. That is one of the conditions of 00:17:00
approval that the, the Planning Commission will approve this gateway feature prior to the issuance of a building permit. 00:17:07
So besides that, we do have adequate landscaping along Geneva Road and 400 N. 00:17:15
Adequate landscaping in the parking. I think I have a parking. Oh, I didn't take a breakdown of the parking, but they meet the 00:17:21
code they're they're above the parking code. 00:17:26
For minimum parking on. 00:17:31
Umm. 00:17:34
Let's see, So here's the drive through operations just to go over that real quick. This road back here is is a privately 00:17:36
controlled street. So as you can see with this, it's a double loaded drive through that if it does back up, it will go possibly 00:17:41
into this private St. which which we don't really have any control over. 00:17:47
And so the two lanes will feed into this one lane. And then there are actually 3 windows located on this McDonald's. You have the 00:17:55
the main payment window right here. 00:17:59
To furthest to the West and then you'll have two other windows. One is for orders that are taking a little bit longer. They'll go 00:18:04
all the way to the east. 00:18:08
And then the middle window is kind of a cut that cars can, you know, pick up their food if they, if it's ready sooner. And then 00:18:11
they have this exit lane right here that they can then leave the drive through and it'll speed up. 00:18:18
And then there is as well the I don't know what they're calling them but but parking spaces dedicated to right here for pickup 00:18:25
that if the drive through is taking even longer, cars can go park there and an employee will take them out to there. 00:18:32
And it does have the, the, you know the one downside to this this design is that the the parking lot is split from the building 00:18:40
and so the anybody going from the parking lot to the building does have to cross that drive through. But they have provided an 00:18:46
adequate crossing right here with an improved surface. 00:18:51
And there's an entryway to the building right here, so it's easy access from there. 00:18:59
Here's the site lighting to address another concern that was brought up. The original plan did have 21 foot light poles, but we've 00:19:09
addressed that with the with McDonald's and they have brought them down to 20 feet. 00:19:14
The site lighting shows the the photometrics of what the site will look like with those 20 foot poles. 00:19:21
And as you can see, they're very aware of being next to Edgewater and have made sure that that their lighting is not spilling over 00:19:26
into that property. 00:19:30
As. 00:19:34
So here's some elevations that they've given us and one other unique thing about this, a lot in the code, the GRMU does require 00:19:38
this corner lot to kind of have an elevated appearance as it's supposed to reflect the building to the north, the multi family 00:19:44
building that's being built to the north. 00:19:51
And so they we have worked with them on these elevations to provide us with kind of an increased appearance and a lot more glass 00:19:57
and just better quality materials on the site. 00:20:02
There is one thing I wanted to address on these colored elevations. I just want to show them because they look nicer than the the 00:20:08
schematics here, but on the rear elevation they ended up having to flip some of the materials. 00:20:15
So what you see on the right is what is going to be approved, not on the left, although that's in the colored elevations. 00:20:21
If that makes any. 00:20:28
Here. 00:20:32
Color Board, Materials board for. 00:20:34
Elevations. 00:20:36
So and then here's our proposed motion. 00:20:41
That besides you know the basics, that they pay any outstanding fees, follow the federal, state, local laws, observe all ADA 00:20:44
requirements. 00:20:48
We just wanted to make sure the elevation sheets A2 dated 07/05/23 are the corrected elevations. 00:20:52
All on site lighting will be down lit. We did have some concerns. 00:20:59
These images here you can kind of see some lighting. 00:21:04
And. 00:21:06
We weren't sure if that was down lit or not in the description, so we just want to make sure that that everything was was down 00:21:07
lit. 00:21:10
And then prior to the issuance of a building permit, proper screening of utilities will be submitted to the community development 00:21:14
department for approval. That's one thing we didn't see in their shy is, is how their utilities will be screened and that is a 00:21:19
requirement in the site development. 00:21:23
Section of the code and then the last one is prior conditions of a building per. 00:21:29
An entry feature for the GRMU, located in the northeast corner of the lot, will need to be approved by the Planning Commission. 00:21:33
Should we change that to the proper like approval body? Does the ARCH Commission need to approve that Morgan? 00:21:39
I mean the large Commission could could review but they they're they're they wouldn't be like the actual the Planning Commission 00:21:47
approved site plans but you know because it is our we could take it to them for you know a review and recommendation to y'all 00:21:53
we'll we'll work with the Arch Commission and McDonald's on that so. 00:22:00
So with the enclosure that wasn't submitted with any of this, the trash enclosure, any of that? 00:22:10
It wasn't the trash enclosure. Sorry, that's over here. They did provide the elevation for that and the materials for that met 00:22:17
what it. 00:22:21
I didn't see the materials that are like being used for. 00:22:25
Let me see what I can find for. 00:22:29
OK, there we go that. 00:22:59
The traction closure. 00:23:04
Do you know like the colors or the anything for that? 00:23:06
Darren, do you want to go up to Mike if you have any details on that or I don't know if Trevor has any? 00:23:11
And that the code does require some consistency. Yeah, so in the details here, it does say like the gate here is painted black. 00:23:16
It does say the color of this brick is to match the main building color. Yeah, and that. And that's what I was just gonna OK with 00:23:25
Dominion Engineering, by the way. So yeah, the trash enclosure is a split place. Split face. 00:23:32
They match the material colors from the building and. 00:23:40
Typically as detailed as that specified, but it always matches the building color OK. 00:23:44
And writing. 00:23:52
What's that? Any lighting out there? No, not for the trash enclosure. 00:23:53
And then just to address the. 00:23:59
Drive through. 00:24:03
Flow Were you able? 00:24:05
Put in any kind of signage or anything that would make the flow come into the parking lot and set it out onto the street or. 00:24:08
So we could talk about this drive through. 00:24:15
If you'd like, Cash did an excellent job introducing this drive through. It is a not a typical McDonald's drive through. This is 00:24:20
the reverse drive through. 00:24:24
Which is occasionally used, but it's not the typical that everybody's familiar. 00:24:29
Maybe what I should do is talk about this drive through a little bit. 00:24:34
Is your concern. 00:24:39
Traffic queuing out is that is that OK? Traffic before the many signs so so this drive through. 00:24:41
Is going to be an exceptionally functioning drive through for a McDonald's. It's got a couple of aspects to it that are really 00:24:49
nice. 00:24:53
1st and fore. 00:25:00
Most McDonald's drive throughs are designed with an 8200 foot distance. 00:25:02
From the window to the order points. 00:25:09
And that's usually because that's what the site is constrained to. 00:25:14
We can do one at a 60 foot distance if we're dealing with a very tight sight, but they're not preferred. 00:25:18
That distance is critical, so the distance I'm talking about is from that. 00:25:25
First window right there, Yep. And then the arrows going back to the two order points. That that's a critical distance to 00:25:31
McDonald's. They like to see that. At least 80 foot. Mm-hmm. 00:25:36
Prefer. 00:25:44
The reason they like that longer is the longer that distance, the more time it gives the kitchen staff. 00:25:46
To prepare that order once it's placed because there's more cars. 00:25:53
In that queue. 00:25:58
So on this site, we've gone to the maximum allowed distance. They'll allow distances up to 120, and you've got a ±5 foot on there. 00:26:00
I know this isn't exactly 120, but this is considered 120 foot. 00:26:07
Distance which is the maximum allowed distance which gives the kitchen staff the maximum. 00:26:16
Time to prepare that order once it's placed at the menu board. So in theory, the staff in the kitchen has had more time than on 00:26:21
any other McDonald's to have that food prepared by the time. 00:26:27
The car gets up to the pickup window to pick up their. 00:26:34
That feature alone is going to make this. 00:26:37
Function much better than some of the. 00:26:41
McDonald's drives through Dr. throughs in the area because this is going to have the longest maximum queue. So the owner operators 00:26:44
of a McDonald's that have 120 foot distance they love it because it gives them so much more time to have that food ready because 00:26:49
now you've got. 00:26:54
Potentially up to three more cars. 00:27:00
In that queue than a very short McDonald's drive through, if that makes sense. Yeah, so, So that's the first point that I'd like 00:27:03
to mention as far as queuing because of that long distance beyond the menu boards. 00:27:10
It's going to give the kitchen staff a lot of time for food prep and keep that flow going quite well. 00:27:18
As cars come up to pick up their food, the kitchen staff should have had time to have that food ready to go as soon as they pull 00:27:25
up, so that'll help a lot. 00:27:29
Cash also did describe the. 00:27:34
The third window third. 00:27:38
Uh, maybe Been around for three years now. Two to three years. 00:27:41
McDonald's has been doing the third window, so the majority of customers will come up to that first window, which is the pay 00:27:46
window. 00:27:50
Go to the second window. 00:27:54
Pick up window and they'll pick up their food and leave. That second window is probably going to handle. 00:27:56
90% of the orders, OK, The third window. 00:28:03
Is the delayed order window, you know, that's the. 00:28:08
That's the soccer dad that has the 11 year old girls soccer team and they're going to get their victory shakes and there's nine of 00:28:12
them in the Suburban, you know? 00:28:17
So they go up to that third window. They started the second window, staff asking to pull forward to the third window. The cool 00:28:22
thing about the third window is it's still within the building. 00:28:27
And the kitchen staff can just walk right up this little hallway in the kitchen to the third window and give them their food. 00:28:32
It allows the flow of the drive through to continue working while they're dealing with that large slow order. So that third window 00:28:38
has been very successful on these McDonald's the last couple of years helping keep the flow going. Point is between those two 00:28:43
aspects. 00:28:48
Nice long queue and the third window. 00:28:54
This McDonald's drive through should function quite seamlessly and not have the big long backups that sometimes you see on other 00:28:57
fast food restaurants, so it'll help out significantly. 00:29:02
Beyond that. 00:29:08
A lot of stacking, even beyond the order points, so we're depicting the eight cars there. 00:29:10
Right now, we could actually have depicted 2 more before. 00:29:17
Back down into the street, we just didn't because. 00:29:22
McDonald's does not project even needing the eight cars based on the cells volume that's projected for this site. 00:29:25
So they have a sales volume projection. 00:29:32
Helps them estimate how many cars would be in this queue, and right now they're. 00:29:35
Projections are. 00:29:41
Peak hour, they would have only six cars in the queue, and we're already depicting 8. 00:29:43
Point is, we could have depicted 10. In fact, we could have depicted 17 if we wanted to take cars all the way out to the other 00:29:48
exit. But you know, it's just. 00:29:53
Yeah, that. 00:29:58
Getting carried away, drawing cars on the plant, so we didn't do. 00:30:00
Point is, this site has significant car capacity on it. 00:30:04
Hey Darren, it's Darren, right, Yes. So with so with the construction of this is the hope that. 00:30:11
So will this come in? 00:30:19
I'm assuming before the intersection 400 N and Geneva Rd. gets fixed, so you guys. 00:30:21
Will primarily be serving from 400 N. 00:30:28
And then further down in the site to Geneva Rd. is that correct? Want to maybe explain kind of the timing of, yeah, so so we we've 00:30:31
had McDonald's, not me directly, but McDonald's real estate. 00:30:36
Has been having conversations with X Develop. 00:30:42
We're understanding that this intersection at 4th North and Geneva might be a few years out. Still, obviously McDonald's wants 00:30:47
that for their business model. 00:30:52
So you know, they they would like to see that come in sooner rather than later, but because they have no control over that. 00:30:57
In the meantime, McDonald's agreement with X Develop. 00:31:04
Is that before the McDonald's opens, X development will have that interior access completed. 00:31:09
So that we have that access onto Geneva Rd. McDonald's has no interest in opening a building. 00:31:16
Without an access, so that's the. So you'll have the two the two points of access. I don't know if the North or the I'm going to 00:31:22
tell you. I don't know for sure if the developer is obligated to do both the points of access. 00:31:30
That one plus the one to the east further. 00:31:39
Or if it's just that one and then the one coming in on 4th but the one coming in on 4th. 00:31:42
McDonald's is going to construct that one. So the other one is the one we would be looking at X development. 00:31:49
To provide and. 00:31:56
Not sure if they need to provide both those accesses to the east or just one, I really don't know is. 00:31:57
I'm not directly in that negotiation. My understanding is that they would do the other ones when the when those other pads, the 00:32:02
further down, the further down as those pads developed. 00:32:07
You have the Mr. Car Wash right here that will have the access right here and. 00:32:46
The northern one on the slot, OK. 00:32:51
Wasn't in the development agreement that they could only have so many or was that a U dot kind of thing that they Yeah, that was 00:32:54
the Geneva. 00:32:57
Road access management plan between U dot and Worm and dot. 00:33:03
Yeah. 00:33:08
Any other questions? 00:33:10
I did have one concern with the crosswalk that goes across the drive through. 00:33:14
Preference. 00:33:23
Would be for that to be a raised cross. 00:33:25
For a few reasons, one. 00:33:28
It would function as a speed bump or a speed deterrent for. 00:33:31
Who are leaving the drive through. 00:33:35
And it's also typically more accessible for those who. 00:33:37
Rolling or walking slowly to not have to go down. 00:33:41
I. 00:33:46
Lots of people start pulling away while. 00:33:46
Grabbing their French fries in their bag and I think anything to slow the traffic until they're actually out of the drive through. 00:33:49
Would be great, especially if we anticipate pedestrian traffic. 00:33:55
I have no problem making it more inconvenient for the cars to get out. 00:33:59
To promote safety. 00:34:04
I shouldn't see that that was called. 00:34:10
You know, fun, fun grading plan, but we have made that crosswalk a high point already. OK, so now, so it is going to be the most 00:34:16
elevated portion of that drive through already. But it's like a six inch speed bump, but it is going to be elevated as as the 00:34:23
highest point. So we did that already. 00:34:30
Worked the grading around it so that it drains both sides of it. Because of that still my preference would be that it is. 00:34:38
So you you, you want like the sidewalks to to be at the same elevation as the crosswalk. Yes. I mean without getting into like all 00:34:44
the details and you know, consulting the experts, yes, I would. And you know that would function as. 00:34:51
You would have to take it slow over that. That's, yeah, it's already the South side. They're already at grade, the sidewalk and 00:34:58
the crosswalk. 00:35:02
Are already at grade on the South side. The north side is the only side we even need a ramp to allow. 00:35:07
To raise up, but it would be possible to make that one flush at the North End. 00:35:14
No, I mean, if we did that, you would. 00:35:18
This giant 6 inch hump right there the cars are never going to get over. 00:35:22
That'd be a little too much. 00:35:26
We've already elevated it as we could. We could maybe elevate it one or two more inches, but to try and elevate it 6 inches? 00:35:28
Would be way beyond reasonable. OK, Well then I would say elevate it. We'll see what we can do. We could probably take it up a 00:35:36
couple more inches, but but we've already made it the high point and brought it up. 00:35:42
Trying to accomplish that just with the grading without making a speed bump. We don't want to turn it into a speed bump, but we 00:35:49
could elevate it a little more to make it more obvious. Is there a reason you wouldn't want to turn it into a speed bump? 00:35:55
Yeah, because it's a. 00:36:02
Yeah. 00:36:04
That promotes slow, safe traffic is what I'm what I'm shooting for. 00:36:06
I'm not. I am not concerned about. 00:36:14
Not being able to go fast in this area. I want them to go slow in this area. No, I understand. It's just, you know, we've. 00:36:19
Halfway what you're suggesting. 00:36:28
I think we might be able to take it up a little bit without making it an onerous thing. That would be my strength, That's what I'm 00:36:32
saying. 00:36:35
Yeah. 00:36:39
So yeah, well, we'll start typing up a condition that, but essentially it would be that. 00:36:42
That Darren's group or that you know the developer work with our city engineering. 00:36:48
Division. 00:36:55
Have the to enhance the crosswalk. 00:36:56
And to look at raising it so we because. 00:37:02
We don't necessarily want to say it's going to be absolutely flush with the sidewalk on either side, but I think we understand 00:37:06
your intent. 00:37:10
And we can kind of work towards that, Yeah. So we exactly we can make it. 00:37:14
More like described here, but to try and. 00:37:20
6 inches up to be flush with the patio. 00:37:23
Going to be a little, not be a pleasant driving experience, yeah. 00:37:27
Yeah. 00:37:32
And I and if I'm trading a pleasant driving experience for a pleasant walking experience, I know which way I'm going. That's all 00:37:32
I'm going to say. Yeah. I mean, the intent is people, as soon as they get the food, they're not slamming on the gas and, yeah, 00:37:37
tearing out of there at the sidewalk itself or the crosswalk. 00:37:41
Is a little bit raised. I get what we're trying to do and we can do something, yeah, we can absolutely do something to make it 00:37:47
better. 00:37:50
OK. 00:37:55
Any other questions? I think that was. 00:37:57
Yeah. 00:38:01
Everything I had. Did you guys have any questions? I just wanted? 00:38:02
Voiced my support for Anthony. 00:38:07
I do. There, I don't. We don't need it to be the full 6 inches, but enough to. 00:38:10
Really make people stop and think and. 00:38:15
I. 00:38:20
Wanted to reiterate Anthonys point that. 00:38:21
Those members of our community who are disabled, the less ramping up they have to do, the easier it is for them to access the 00:38:25
restaurant. This will create additional ramping to do this. 00:38:31
Just so you know. OK. 00:38:37
Like to go from? 00:38:39
Well, it's already nice and flush. Right now it's ideal. 00:38:43
So now we'll have to put a ramp on both sides. 00:38:49
We'll have to have a ramp coming down on the South side to accomplish what's being described. 00:38:52
But the sidewalk wouldn't be flush with the asphalt. 00:38:58
Now, the sidewalk could be higher, right? So if it's flush with the sidewalk to sidewalk, then you're up higher than the asphalt, 00:39:01
yes, but we have to bring that sidewalk down to the handicapped parking stalls. 00:39:07
So the only way to do that is to add a ramp on the South side. OK, I see you. 00:39:12
So doing this is going to require additional handicap ramps, yes. 00:39:19
How are they getting in care? 00:39:23
They're flush right now. 00:39:24
To the handicapped spots. 00:39:29
Ramp down to it so that it's flush with the asphalt once it gets down there. 00:39:31
So here he's saying he's going to have to R. 00:39:36
To get to this crosswalk. 00:39:39
In order for. 00:39:42
Started going to have to R. 00:39:46
There is that, yeah. And right now I'm not even sure how we're going to pull it off. To tell you the truth, it looks problematic 00:39:50
to try and do a ramp on the South side. 00:39:54
But we'll see what we can come up well under the condition we have, we have kind of an intent I put put into the condition as 00:39:59
well. And so like to that end you can work with our, our public works exactly. We'll do what we can do with engineering and bring 00:40:06
it up as much as, Yeah, because we want to we want this to be like something that. 00:40:12
This amenable for everybody and. 00:40:19
Create more hardship. 00:40:22
Members of the community as well, right? And you know, like a McDonald's at the play place, you'd want to be able to say. 00:40:24
Hey, could my 12 year old walk from the parking lot into McDonald's safely without an adult holding their hand? You know? 00:40:30
It'd be nice if we build it as safe as possible. I just know that my mom's going, my mom is disabled and she will be driving from 00:40:38
my complex right next to it, to the McDonald's and then having to walk. 00:40:43
Into the into the building with my children. So I was thinking like, OK. 00:40:50
With that perspective, yes, I want this to be a safe crosswalk and be something that she's actually able to use. 00:40:56
So. 00:41:05
If we can accomplish that with staff, that would be really great and ideal. And I appreciate. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, we'll 00:41:06
we'll see what we can do to bring it up. Cool. 00:41:10
Any other? 00:41:19
Brad, did you have anything? 00:41:21
Daria, is there something? 00:41:24
If there are no other questions, would somebody like to make a motion? 00:41:28
Yeah, before we before we make a motion. 00:41:35
You had captured some of the language, is that right? Would you mind reading that? Yeah. So I can just go over each of these 00:41:38
conditions and that way you can just approve it. 00:41:43
So its applicant will pay any outstanding fees. The applicant is subject to all federal, state and local laws. The applicant must 00:41:48
observe all ADA requirements. The elevation sheets A2 dated O seven O 523 are the corrected elevations. All site lighting will be 00:41:53
down. 00:41:58
Applicant will work with the Public Works Department to enhance the height of the drive through crosswalk for the purpose of 00:42:04
slowing traffic enhancing and enhancing the safety of the pedestrian for pedestrians. 00:42:09
Have. 00:42:15
And then prior to the issuance of billing permit, proper screening of utilities will be submitted to the Community Development 00:42:18
Department for approval. And prior to the issuance of a building permit and entry feature for the GRMU located in the northeast 00:42:22
corner of the lot will need to be approved by the Planning Commission. 00:42:27
For motion. And we could, we could send that through Arch as well, but we don't need to put that in the condition. We'll just 00:42:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for being open to the conversation. I think. Yeah, everyone wants to prioritize safety and accessibility. 00:42:41
But yeah, I can. 00:42:48
A motion I move. 00:42:50
Approve this site plan application for McDonald's with the stated conditions by staff. 00:42:53
Thanks, Anthony. Do I have a second? 00:43:00
And spread all in favor, aye? 00:43:02
Right. Thank you. Yeah, thanks. All right. Moving on to 3.4, the 2024 calendar. 00:43:05
Has everybody looked at the calendar to? 00:43:15
It looked fine to me. 00:43:20
As far as holidays and stuff go, I didn't see anything. Is there anything that stood out to you guys that might be a conflict? 00:43:24
Obviously the one in December is missing and the one in July is missing. 00:43:28
Just because they're close to Christmas and the 4th of July. 00:43:33
Yeah, it looked good. And then we can. 00:43:37
As that comes up. 00:43:41
Right. Do I have a motion? 00:43:44
Move to approve. 00:43:49
Calendar for 2024 is presented by staff. Do I have a second? 00:43:51
A second All in favor? Aye? All right, moving on to 3.5, the 2024 Chair and Vice Chair elections. 00:43:55
All right. So we do this every year. Who is going to be here next year kind of thing? 00:44:04
We also will have the meeting December 6th because I I think right now. 00:44:10
We're missing, Chris, and I know that we're we're actually down, I think. 00:44:16
Two or three members of our Planning Commission with Anthony also leaving. So you could still vote, it's up to you. If you wanted 00:44:21
to you could wait till the 6th January until we have all the members because technically any alternates. I think Pam wants it 00:44:28
published before the New year, so that. 00:44:34
We can do it either way. We can talk to her, but OK, yeah, so the one way we could do it is we will be getting. 00:44:42
More planning commissioners in January, most likely. So we could talk to Pam to see if it's something we could do the elections. 00:44:49
The first meeting is the first item in January. 00:44:54
Or we can postpone to December to the first meeting in December. 00:45:00
For this. 00:45:04
I'm OK with today or the. 00:45:08
I. 00:45:11
It's probably going to be me. 00:45:14
And I just need to have a reliable vice chair at that point if. 00:45:17
Because of my work schedule and kids, I can. 00:45:24
Always 100% guarantee. 00:45:27
Do we know if Chris will be here next time? 00:45:31
I don't know. I would assume that he is it was last time and also we have a lot of alternates that haven't. We have alternates 00:45:34
that haven't been put on the Commission yet. So it might be good to. 00:45:40
Wait until January or until December 6th. 00:45:48
Let's Yeah, do I move for that? 00:45:51
Do. 00:45:56
Vote to move. 00:45:57
No, it's not a public area. Perfect. Can we continue that next time? And yeah, we'll put it back on. You don't even need to 00:46:00
continue. It'll be on. If it was a public hearing, like the our first one, then we have to continue it. So yeah, cool. 00:46:07
Cooks and maybe, maybe Chris is just suddenly very available. 00:46:14
Right. OK, cool. Moving on to a Commission member is reports and ex parte discussion and disclosure. 00:46:18
Anything to disclose? Well, I guess before we get to that, this may very well be Anthony's last meeting, that's true. 00:46:26
Sucks. I just booked a work trip for the first week of December, so I will not be here on the 6th. 00:46:33
So personally, I just wanted to say thank you, Anthony. Like without having you on the Commission, we would. 00:46:40
Miss a lot of things. I feel like it's awesome having you on the Commission, having your views as far as biking goes and 00:46:46
pedestrian access and having walkable things has been. 00:46:51
Incredibly important to the planning of. 00:46:56
And yeah, I just want to say thanks. Thanks. 00:46:58
Any other Commission member report an ex parte discussion or disclosure. 00:47:05
Anything from. 00:47:12
Yeah. I want to just say thank you to Anthony. 00:47:14
Freaking rock star. He was so instrumental. When I came out I was the first like full time planner that the city had and Anthony 00:47:17
was incredible. Helped me understand the code. Just help me understand the procedures and the developments going on. 00:47:24
You've worked on everything from our first trails plan, all the getting the first general plan adopt adopted. 00:47:31
We go back to when we were meeting in the building water. So yeah we're meeting in the in the the building that used to be a 00:47:39
chicken shed and you know like the old farmer you still live in there. But yeah I mean you've done so much and and have led by by 00:47:45
example from the the Bicycle Advisory Commission just to I I just go on and on and. 00:47:52
I remember one time something that's always stuck with me and kind of changed the way that I've done my planning is you shared 00:47:58
with me kind of the some of your insight you you gather of the community is is from doing daily bike rides. 00:48:05
And I thought was really interesting, you kind of explained that you just get a different perspective when you're on a bike as 00:48:12
compared to when you're when you're riding a car. And so you're just able to see it at a much more human level. And so that that's 00:48:17
something that I, I try to incorporate not every day, but you know we it's it's something as a planner that I've learned you know 00:48:22
from you that. 00:48:27
You should understand your city from from more than just driving. You know more than just walking biking. Like try to understand 00:48:33
from from all all users and anyway that I you know just really grateful for your service and. 00:48:40
Seriously. You're gonna be you're gonna be really messed. So I guess you you have a year break and then they can put you back on. 00:48:46
I'll still be involved with the the bike advisory Committee too. Yeah. But you're still on the the BAC. But thank you for your 00:48:52
service. Really appreciate you. Absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks. 00:48:57
Anything else from? 00:49:09
Patrick has something he would like so this is I I guess it would be kind of a Naseem and and my thing we have been working with. 00:49:16
Members of the preserve community that have been interested in making a connection on the North East portion of their development 00:49:28
to the Vineyard Connector Trail. That'll be along the trail because right now it requires a really long walk to to to go around 00:49:34
and that would give them direct access that they want to get to the train station via Main Street or the trail that goes under 00:49:40
under the. 00:49:46
Under the the bridge, the overpass and so we're we're working to you know to hopefully be able to secure that but that that should 00:49:53
be a really great. 00:49:57
Connection to the people in that. 00:50:02
If you want to add the. 00:50:05
You can see me into work by the works director now. Yeah, we're also, as you can see, there's crews out there installing the 00:50:15
crosswalk flashers. 00:50:19
Along. 00:50:24
600 N. 00:50:26
It'll be a 600 N, 404 hundred S Excuse me. 00:50:29
And Center St. and also with the other ones coming online, would be by 400 N by the Juarez Edge clubhouse area, Bridgeport section 00:50:33
and then Grove Park as well. 00:50:39
So those flashes the components of the flashers. 00:50:47
You know, they're they're hard to get long order and so forth. So we're making sure that we put up the priority ones 1st. And then 00:50:50
we also have another order of flashers coming in to finish up the by the Grove Park and also potentially by the mid block crossing 00:50:56
at the clubhouse. But they'll be online, they'll be great. 00:51:02
And then I haven't told the planners yet, but they'll have the, we'll have a wireless feature on there. So we can actually see how 00:51:10
many times those buttons get pushed in that and then it's actually utilized. So we'll see cash going there pressing the button 00:51:14
like 15 times. 00:51:18
Yeah, get your numbers up. That's right. And then of course our school zone flashers will actually have the same. 00:51:24
Connected that connectivity as well. So we'll have our school flashers up and then we'll have some good connectivity to make sure, 00:51:29
mostly on the maintenance side to make sure that. 00:51:33
This. 00:51:37
Reduce schools, reduce speed, School zones, flashers are working properly and that. 00:51:38
For example, snow gets on the solar panels and loses power will be notified by the way that something is not working. 00:51:46
Right. So we're pushing forward to get a lot of enhancing a lot of stuff and then the trail by. 00:51:52
Waterfront. The waterfront, Yeah. The Waterfront Trail. The Lakefront Trail just north of Penny Springs Park. There we go. 00:52:00
Sunset Beach. 00:52:08
Recently, he's been repaired. 00:52:11
The contractor and the county. 00:52:15
And enhanced by the city. 00:52:17
With. 00:52:21
So yeah, well as well say enhanced. That's a nice word to say, but it's been enhanced by the city with, without, with a with a 00:52:23
proper grain to allow the water to flow off. 00:52:28
On there. 00:52:33
Public works technicians and operators. 00:52:35
And engineers, and sometimes planners, are doing a lot to make sure that the city stays accessible to. 00:52:38
OK, for every mile that Morgan walks, I drive 5. 00:52:46
Real quick, well just while we're talking about trails and with the Homesteads development building their trail on the north side 00:52:58
of there is to connect to the trail. Are there any plans yet for the trail that's going to continue along Holdaway Road and also? 00:53:06
For replacing the sidewalk with trails on Center St. 00:53:14
Are there any plans yet for that? 00:53:20
So I'm not sure about the sidewalks for, I'm sorry, assuming the Republic Works driver, I'm not sure about the sidewalks for 00:53:30
Center St. along. They would have to be placed on the Northside. 00:53:34
On that and. 00:53:39
That we can have that discussion in terms of putting that into our. 00:53:42
Long term master plans in terms of construction, I'm sure it was in there. I just never, you know, I don't look at those master. 00:53:46
You call. 00:53:52
No, but yeah, I'm sure we can get like said, we had the discussion and work with it. I'll work, I'll talk, we'll work with Morgan 00:53:53
and his team. 00:53:57
Excuse me, the trail access. 00:54:02
From Pod One, the home center coming up north. 00:54:06
Umm. 00:54:12
To. 00:54:12
The contractor, yeah, the contractor will be building that trail to further connectivity. 00:54:15
And then it'll be and then we'll have the access to be mainly across the street along South of Center St. There's really not much 00:54:21
room. 00:54:25
To do I to make to make that any water as it is, we're actually looking at the. 00:54:30
Entrance into Gammon. 00:54:37
Where the current. 00:54:40
With the current pedestrian refuge is currently also when people come S on pedestrian refuge to go into Grove Park. 00:54:43
We acknowledge that there is really no good way of doing it to except for going on to Holdaway Rd. 00:54:50
And then back into the park. So we're we're go to see what we can do to make it like. 00:54:57
In north facing entrance into Gammon Park. 00:55:04
And then a trail system that goes into Holloway Rd. that's been on discussion or excuse me connectivity onto all the way where 00:55:08
that's a discussion that Morgan and I have with the developer. 00:55:13
To to make that happen, I know that. 00:55:18
And agree in agreement to push that further further forward. 00:55:22
On that, but to make to complete a trail down holdaway. 00:55:26
There are. There is going there. There's going to be quite a few areas where we'll have. 00:55:31
Get some additional property and access points to create that. Quite honestly and as well looking at. 00:55:39
I don't think we'll be able to get like a traditional like 10 foot trail. I doubt we'll even get 8 foot trail. But I think that's 00:55:46
like a sidewalk, like more, more so like a 5 foot sidewalk would occur at that time. It would. I'm sure that would be a great 00:55:52
project for us too when we get some connectivity from that park. 00:55:57
Yeah, exactly. When we get some connectivity from the East side onto Holloway Rd. that would be a great time for us to have some 00:56:03
discussions with the homeowners. I'm on there to, you know, tell them what we're doing and also the areas where we don't, where 00:56:08
the city doesn't have. 00:56:12
Wide enough right away to work with those home. 00:56:17
Gain that right away so we can make put those sidewalks onto the right away. It's important to have sidewalks on public right away 00:56:22
versus on private property. One allows access for everyone to utilize that and then there's also a liability the sidewalks on 00:56:26
private property. 00:56:31
If something trips and falls to happen. 00:56:36
And it protects the homeowners. 00:56:39
Being on that lawsuit, that tends to get sent out. 00:56:41
Yep. 00:56:46
Yeah. 00:56:52
And there's also a trail connecting from the West as well eventually, right? 00:57:00
The the trails map, you can correct me if I'm wrong the same, but I believe this comes in. It's like that the corridor plan shows 00:57:13
a connection somewhere through here. So Yep. 00:57:18
So that's what he was talking about. We'll have to workout with the, you know, the property owners, the home center, construction 00:57:24
and then. 00:57:27
I think the same as this, the other one you're talking to, making that connection into the park, yeah. And then making that 00:57:30
extension to. 00:57:33
Yeah. Oh, yeah. 00:57:42
And then just. 00:57:48
I feel like there's a lot of places in the city where it. 00:57:51
You're on a big trail and it's nice, and then it narrows down to a sidewalk. 00:57:54
A section and then it's back to a trail and it's like, it would be cool. 00:57:58
Have our trails like fully connect. 00:58:03
Probably would do those as we replace you know sidewalks if if we you know. 00:58:06
You know, we most likely probably wouldn't go in and rip up like a good side just because of the cost of it. But as we do 00:58:13
replacements and you know, instead of rebuilding the sidewalk, we'd go with the trail and just keep keep the trail with. 00:58:19
Unless there's like some real priorities areas if you know if you see areas there's like we got a trailer you know I I would bring 00:58:26
that tendencies attention we could look at that OK, just just as someone that comes from. 00:58:32
The Southwest. 00:58:38
There's no way to connect with just trails. 00:58:40
Grove Park, for example you. 00:58:44
Move to narrower sidewalks. 00:58:47
You have to go through Gammon Park, which the trails are all torn up there and those were sidewalks too. So it would be it would 00:58:49
just be cool to be able to travel on just trails throughout the city. Feel like it's a lot safer for the kids. Yeah, I think 00:58:54
that's the kind of the the. 00:58:58
Long range plan is. 00:59:03
Hopefully connect all those nodes with with good trail system. What is the update on the sidewalk for Vineyard Connector Rd. 00:59:05
We've had the conversation before about where the overpass is on the South side making the connection to Mill Rd. is that we're 00:59:21
talking about? 00:59:25
That gap area where where UV. 00:59:29
We'll have to have a discussion with you specifically on that. So yeah, we haven't had, we haven't had discussion with you dot or 00:59:33
EVU in terms of magnet finishing that connection. Thanks for that. We've had a couple of residents that ask about that so. 00:59:39
Yeah, I know in the Morgan speak more about that and I know you UV has been pushing forward on. 00:59:46
We doing their master plan. I think this is since I've been here for 2 1/2 years. It's the third time. 00:59:52
OK if there's nothing else. 01:00:00
And meeting Adj. 01:00:03
You're laughed. Maybe, man, it's bad. 01:00:09
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